The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov UFO UpDates Mailing List Nov 1998 Nov 1: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking - Stan Friedman [4] Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking - Jerry Cohen [306] Re: More Music!! - Pamela Stonebrooke [28] Re: Universal Quotes - Pamela Stonebrooke [9] Comments from Paul Dore Re: SETI 'Hit' - Terry Blanton [65] Re: Comments from Paul Dore Re: SETI 'Hit' - Terry Blanton [13] Re: The Ed Stewart Show - Roger R. Prokic [8] Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking - Ed Stewart [44] Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking - Keith Stevens [30] Re: Top SETI Scientist Denounces Alien Signal Hoax - Michael Hodges [6] HOT GOSSIP UK - NOVEMBER - Georgina Bruni [271] Nov 2: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Tim Matthews [33] Help! Lost Links! - Brian Douglas [9] Re: Music and UFOs - Lauren Edwards [8] November issue Australian UFO Reports & Experiences - Robert Frola [386] 'Ufology: The Next World Religion'? - Stig Agermose [166] Re: The Ed Stewart Show - Alfred Lehmberg [23] Alfred's Odd Ode #278 - Alfred Lehmberg [84] Wanted - FT Sightings Reports - Tony Spurrier [15] Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking - Ed Stewart [21] Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking - Ed Stewart [11] Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking - Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. [7] Re: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian - Jim Mortellaro [5] Nov 3: Information/History For A 7th Grade Science Report - John Hayes [30] BWW Media Alert 19981101 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [103] Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking - Gary Alevy [213] EToS, The Analysis & Ghosts - Jan Aldrich [135] EToS, The Analysis & Ghosts - Jan Aldrich [135] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 44 - Joseph Trainor [488] Re: UFOs and Music - Michael Christol [32] Re: Sighting In Virginia? - Leanne Martin [7] Re: Mike Jarmus Net Radio Sunday Night - Stephen Bassett [7] Re: Top SETI Scientist Denounces Alien Signal Hoax - Jim Deardorff [21] RPIT Roswell Revisitation Report No. 1 - James Bond Johnson [144] 'SETI' Signal: Japanese Ham's Report? - Stig Agermose [18] 'SETI' Signals: Guernsey Ham's Identity Confirmed - Stig Agermose [20] 'SETI' Signals: Prof. Cohen Of Boston Comments - Stig Agermose [24] SETI Hoax 'Proved'?: Effelsberg Denies Everything - Stig Agermose =20 [20] 'SETI' Signal: Press Conference Still On - Stig Agermose [46] Sighting in Pretoria, South Africa - Jakes Louw [13] Re: UFO Name Change? - Bob Shell [7] Re: New Roswell Documents? - Michel M. Deschamps [22] Upsurge in St Louis Valley [US] Reports - Christopher O'Brien [151] ASP: The Frequently Questioned Answer - Joseph Polanik [145] ASP: The FAQ (Part 1 of 2) - Joseph Polanik [269] ASP: The FAQ (Part 2 of 2) - Joseph Polanik [481] Re: 'M.E.' & Abductees - Sue Kovios [2] Re: Music & UFOs - Greg Sandow [14] SETI Press Conference Wednesday November 4 - Stig Agermose [28] SETI Hoax Timing? - Terry Blanton [4] Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of ObergianDebunking - Gary Alevy [3] Re: Propasals for M.E /Abduction Scenario - David Crundall [65] 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite! - Stig Agermose [64] Re: Wanted - FT Sightings Reports - Tony Spurrier [4] Re: UFO Video Technique - Bob Shell [20] Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Jerome Clark" [12] Re: New Roswell Documents? - Roger Evans [36] Re: Sighting In Pretoria, South Africa - Nick Balaskas [17] -[For The Record]- [canufo] Sighting: 11-02-98, - Chris Rutkowski [14] Re: The Ed Stewart Show - Jim Mortellaro [35] -[For The Record]- [canufo] Sighting: 11-01-98, - Chris Rutkowski [18] Nov 4: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking - Dennis [5] Are you a SETI fan? - Doc Barry [25] Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Joachim Koch [65] Re: New Roswell Documents? - Tim Matthews [36] The Cancelled Press Conference - Jim Deardorff [38] Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite! - Bob Foster [13] Re: The Ed Stewart Show - Serge Salvaille [17] Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite - Jim Mortellaro [9] Re: UFO Video Technique - Roger Evans [54] Re: SETI Hoax Timing? - Leanne Martin [3] Re: -[For The Record]- [canufo] Sighting: - Donald Ledger [4] Re: Sighting In Pretoria, South Africa - Jakes Louw [7] Video Of Cleveland UFOs On-Line - Stig Agermose [20] When Is A Dore _Not_ A Dore? - Stig Agermose [29] "Mitchell On UFO Stories About Astronauts: Pure - Stig Agermose [54] Is There Evidence Of Life On Mars? - Diane Harrison [16] Re: Concern Re. General Ramey's Roswell Crash - Kevin Randle [23] Re: Are You A SETI Fan? - Roger Evans [46] Re: The Cancelled Press Conference - Brian Cuthbertson [30] Re: Are You A SETI Fan? - Brian Straight [5] Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website - Ignatius Graffeo [16] Re: Music & UFOs - Gilles Milot [7] Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite - Michael Hodges [6] Re: New Roswell Documents? - Stan Friedman [19] Iridium Observations (was: Re: -[For the Record - Chris Rutkowski [12] Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite - Roger Evans [34] Pssst...Get An Ape Suit-Quick! - John Sauer [7] Wanted: Items From Geocities' Paul Dore Defunct - Ignatius Graffeo [16] Re: SETI Email From Paul Dore - The Real One? - Stig Agermose [26] Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists - Greg St. Pierre [6] Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite - Alfred Lehmberg [18] Nov 5: -[For The Record]- P-47: Seti Signal Hoax - Rod Brock [29] Re: DISPATCH # 108 -- the weekly newsletter of - ParaScope@AOL.COM [149] Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Michael Christol [53] Re: The Cancelled Press Conference - Dennis [40] 'Watch The Skies' E-Magazine - Moderator, UFO UpDates, Toronto [5] Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists - Kerry Ferrand [26] World Wide Contacts - Roy Hale [29] Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website - Bob Young [4] Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Tim Matthews [19] Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore - Larry Hatch [13] Re: Are You A SETI Fan? - Larry Hatch [46] Re: Hoaxer Shuts Down Fake Paul Dore Website - Larry Hatch [13] Re: 'SETI' Signals: Earthlings Say: "Not So Fast" - Stig Agermose [89] Re: Wanted: Items From Geocities' Paul Dore - Larry Hatch [19] Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists - Marie Ivey [5] Re: Iridium Observations (was: Re: -[For the - Bob Young [12] Re: Iridium Observations (was: Re: -[For the - Tony Spurrier [14] Re: World Wide Contacts - Tony Spurrier [6] Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Jerome Clark [18] Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore - Brian Cuthbertson [19] Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite - Roger R. Prokic [14] Re: RPIT Roswell Revisitation Report No. 1 - Dennis Stacy [24] Re: New Anomalist URL - Dennis Stacy [5] Re: - John Velez [16] Re: Video Of Cleveland UFOs On-Line - Sean Jones [14] Re: The Cancelled Press Conference - Jim Deardorff [48] -[For The Record]- (SW Discuss) Art Bell Last Night - Neal Furgurson [52] Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Tim Matthews [79] Nov 6: Chinese Air Force Pilot Plays Chase with UFO - Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. [50] Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite - Susan Baldwin [5] Re: Music & UFOs - Bruce Maccabee [2] Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Roger Evans [28] Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists - Greg St. Pierre [36] Re: The Cancelled Press Conference - Dennis Stacy [37] 'UK Red Alert' - The Game & The Player - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [17] How To Kill A Martian Bug - Stig Agermose [49] Re: Hoaxer Shuts Down Fake Paul Dore Website - Henny van der Pluijm [16] Re: Laura Lee Show E-News - October 7, 1998 - Laura Lee [169] Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Asgeir W=E6hre Skavhaug [36] French UFO Author Paul Misraki Dies - Edoardo Russo [36] Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore - Larry Hatch [23] Re: [canufo] Sighting: 11-02-98, Winnipeg, MB - Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug [17] Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite - Paul Wittry [14] Security Oaths - Paul Reischmann [17] Re: Pssst...Get An Ape Suit-Quick! - UFO UpDates - Toronto [23] Re: The Ed Stewart Show - Jim Mortellaro [11] Nov 7: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Tim Matthews [53] Re: The Ed Stewart Show - Ann Mulvey [2] Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore - Roger Evans [27] Re: Bielek Banned From The Uk? - Tim Matthews [111] Bielek Banned From The Uk? - Tim Matthews [111] Re: Hoaxer Shuts Down Fake Paul Dore Website - Larry Hatch [31] Re: Re: [canufo] Sighting: 11-02-98, Winnipeg, MB - Joel Henry [20] Chat with Erich Von Daniken - Yvonne Hedenland [14] Project Silverbug - Kenny Young - T.A.S.K. [12] Genetic Breakthrough Validates Sitchin's 'Cosmic - Prophets [33] 'Down to Earth' - Rates & Information - Roy Hale [46] Re: Music & UFOs - Sean Jones [5] In The 'Spotlight': Derrel Sims - Max Burns [274] Re: 'Cleveland Video' - Complications - Sean Jones [37] Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists - Josh Goldstein [94] Alfred's Odd Ode #279 - Alfred Lehmberg [72] No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? - Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. [33] Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore - Brian Cuthbertson [47] Paul Dore to Speak on Laura Lee Show Tonight - Ignatious Graffeo [18] NewsFlash: UFO News Sightings - Steven L. Wilson Sr [57] ASP - Intuiting 'Entities' in Time to Resist - Joseph Polanik [76] Nov 8: Filer's Files #43-1998 - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [387] Filer's Files #44-1998 - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [378] This Is Message #14,000 Posted To The - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [33] Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore - Larry Hatch [18] "Fliegender Untertasse und EMF vs Atomic - RHODDONE@aol.com [50] Re: Bielek Banned From The Uk? - Michael Christol [60] UFO Researcher Forced Off Road - Karen Guetzow [51] Re: Project Silverbug - Skye Turell [7] Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - GT McCoy [17] Return to Shaitan Mazar - Sean Jones [144] Re: Strange Object In Schalksrust, South Africa - - Tinus de Beer [42] Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In - Steven W. Kaeser [9] BWW Media Alert 19981108 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [88] Betty Hill Associated Pegasus SETI Signal? - Stig Agermose [63] Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Roger Evans [35] Nov 9: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite - Joachim Koch [10] Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In - Brian Cuthbertson [6] Crop Circle Lecture & UFO*BC Updates - David Pengilly - UFO*BC [31] Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website - keith stevens [9] Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite - keith stevens [18] Introduction - Thiago Ticchetti [7] Statement From UK Crop Circle Makers - Michael Hodges [156] Project SIGN Research Release - Jan Aldrich [138] Re: NewsFlash: UFO News Sightings - Bruce Maccabee [232] Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Bruce Maccabee [6] Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road - Bob Young [28] Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Tim Matthews [33] Re: Project Silverbug - Tim Matthews [19] Re: Project Silverbug - Kenny Young [138] Re: Return to Shaitan Mazar - Nikolay V. Subbotin [181] Chat with Lyn Buchanan - Yvonne Hedenland [14] Re: Betty Hill Associated Pegasus SETI Signal? - Stig Agermose [57] Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In - Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. [11] Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road - Jerome Clark [9] Re: Introduction - Roger Evans [8] Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Roger Evans [46] UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3, Number 45 - Joseph Trainor [582] Inquiry - Philip Mantle [11] Help For A Friend - Philip Mantle [12] Re: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third - Michael Christol [6] Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road - Dennis Stacy [6] Nov 10: Re: Project SIGN Research Release - bruce maccabee [34] Re: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third - Bob Foster [0] MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' - Jan Aldrich [78] Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In - RobIrving [12] Linda Mutant Howl: EQ Pegasi Declared a Richard - Ignatius Graffeo [35] Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In - Greg St. Pierre [4] Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Gary Alevy [29] Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road - Gary [29] 'Little Aliens' Hoaxes Continue In Israel - Moderator, UFO UpDates Toronto [60] Re: Inquiry - Larry Hatch [5] Re: Project Silverbug - Josh Goldstein [5] Re: Linda Mutant Howl: EQ Pegasi Declared a - Jim Mortellaro [33] Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Lynda Matthews [48] Nov 11: Re: Major UFO Flap In September - Brian Cuthbertson [11] Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Steven Kaeser [7] Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles - Andy Denne - [14] Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Jan Aldrich [26] Re: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third - Michael Christol [12] DISPATCH # 109 -- the weekly newsletter of - ParaScope@AOL.COM [105] UFO Pop Quiz... - Roger Evans [25] Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road - KarenGuetzow [16] Re: Project Silverbug - Tim Matthews [6] Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles - Josh Goldstein [2] Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' - Josh Goldstein [9] Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles - Robert Irving [13] Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' - Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug [9] Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' - GT McCoy [31] Re: UFO Pop Quiz... - Jim Mortellaro [39] And furthermore.....! - Jim Mortellaro [22] Re: UFO Pop Quiz... - Mark Cashman [97] Re: Major UFO Flap In September - Jim Mortellaro [35] Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' - James Bond Johnson [14] Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' - Jerome Clark [23] Re: UFO Pop Quiz... - Jsmortell@aol.com [66] The Flying Flapjacks, V-173 and XF5U-1 - Jan Aldrich [157] Nov 12: Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Lynda Matthews [65] Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update 11-11-98 - Paul Anderson [32] Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell - Nick Balaskas [41] The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body - Ignatius Graffeo [61] Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' - Tim Matthews [32] Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles - Tim Matthews [8] Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' - Tim Matthews [8] Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' - Leanne Martin [14] Re: UFO Pop Quiz... - Thiago Ticchetti [13] Re: Major UFO Flap In September - Brian Cuthbertson [25] Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles - RobIrving [3] Have Blue, Will Travel - Jakes Louw [8] Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Steven W. Kaeser [60] Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles - Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. [10] Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell - James Bond Johnson [6] Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien - Diana Botsford [28] Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Serge Salvaille [19] Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles - Rob Irving [5] Re: And furthermore.....! - Sean Jones [6] Re: Paul Dore Implicated as SETI Hoaxer - Ignatious Graffeo [17] Nov 13: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien - Perry Mick [16] Camp Borden and UFOs - Nick Balaskas [27] Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell - Michael Hodges [10] Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Henny van der Pluijm [11] Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien - michael Hodges [9] Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien - Michael Hodges [16] The Dore Bore - Stig Agermose [31] Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Michael Christol [63] Report On 1998 Show-Me UFO Conference - Bob Soetebier [215] Cahokia Mounds - Bob Soetebier [126] Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien - Stephen G. Bassett [28] Laura Lee Show - E-News - November 14, 1998 - Laura Lee Show webmaster@lauralee.com [120] Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell - Roger Evans [9] Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' - Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug [17] Re: More SLV Sightings - Christopher O'Brien [41] Is 'Dr.' Fiore any More? - Josh Goldstein [6] Re: Have Blue, Will Travel - Larry Hatch [36] Re: Whats ON, University of Sydney - Diane Harrison [100] Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo - Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug [132] Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell - Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. [13] Montana UFO Sighting - The 'Gray's Still There! - Ignatius Graffeo [128] Re: Camp Borden and UFOs - Jim Mortellaro [17] Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell - Jim Mortellaro [21] Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Alex Franz [23] Re: Strange Case of Dr. Reed & the Alien Body... - Diana Botsford [20] Re: Major UFO Flap In September - Michael Christol [72] Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Alex Franz [139] Re: Strange Case of Dr. Reed & Alien Body... - Michael Christol [26] Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' - Jerome Clark [16] Filer's Files #45-1998 - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [354] Nov 14: Raelians Aim To "Clone Humans By 2000" - Stig Agermose [69] Re: Is 'Dr.' Fiore any More? - Tim Brigham [53] Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Michael Christol [99] Re: Strange Case of Dr. Reed & the Alien Body... - michael Hodges [24] Re: Camp Borden and UFOs - Larry Hatch [33] Montana UFOs Said To Have Eluded Multiple F-16 - Ignatious Graffeo [191] UFO Lecture in Brazil - A. J. Gevaerd [29] Alien Microchip Speculation - Bob Shell [28] Alfred's Odd Ode #280 - Alfred Lehmberg [82] Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Lynda Matthews [4] Nov 15: Re: Report On 1998 Show-Me UFO Conference - Bob Soetebier [26] 'Faces of the Visitors' - Kevin Randle [24] Mexican 'Flap' - Philip Mantle [9] Bassett on Laura Lee - Saturday - 11/14 - Stephen G. Bassett [4] Nov 16: BWW Media Alert 19981114 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [136] [canufo] BC Sightings - David Pengilly [59] Re: Project SIGN Research Release - Jan Aldrich [302] -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [103] Re: 'Abduction' On Video - Greg St. Pierre [14] William Steinman Contact - Jan Aldrich [8] Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In - Perry Mick [8] Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed... - Leanne Martin [12] Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' - Leanne Martin [6] Re: Camp Borden and UFOs - Tim Matthews [11] ECHELON: America's Secret Global Surveillance - John Hayes [30] 'Beyond The Unexplained' - Santa Fe, New Mexico - Philip Mantle [13] Tempel-Tuttle Comet: 'Armageddon' Seen In 2097? - Stig Agermose [73] Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Jeff Rense [183] Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update 11-15-98 - Paul Anderson [36] Re: Info? On 'Branton' - Brian Cuthbertson [29] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Dennis Stacy [12] Blather: Energy Fields! - Shields Up! - Daev Walsh - Blather [222] Re: 'Abduction' On Video - John Velez [14] RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? - James Bond Johnson [51] Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed... - Michael Hodges [14] Nov 17: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed - Roger Evans [11] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Roy Hale [28] Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' - Bruce Maccabee [34] Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In - Leanne Martin [11] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Jim Mortellaro [4] 'Alien Dawn' by Colin Wilson - Review - Stig Agermose [20] Asteroid And Comet Impact Hazards - Stig Agermose [5] Re: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? - Neil Morris [52] Sighting 11-17-98 of V-shaped Formation? - Sue Lawrence [8] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Tim Matthews [8] Nov 18: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Steven Kaeser [13] Remote Viewer on #Visitations - Angela Shilling [62] Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' - Michael Christol [17] Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed - Leanne Martin [10] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Ted Viens [6] Re: Asteroid And Comet Impact Hazards - Bob Soetebier [28] NASA's Comet Observation Home Page - Bob Soetebier [8] Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed - Josh Goldstein [19] Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale - Stig Agermose [25] Three 'Bird-Colonels' & Holloman AFB - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [294] 'Branton' - Identity? - Bill Hamilton [5] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Jim Mortellaro [18] Nov 19: Mainstream Media Reports - Bonnie Kudela [26] Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' - Stan Friedman [9] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Tim Matthews [15] Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed - Rick Goldsmith [16] Re: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale - Leanne Martin [12] UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3 Number 46 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [462] Recent UFO Sightings From Scotland - Part (1) - Dave Ledger [96] Recent UFO Sightings From Scotland - Part (2) - Dave Ledger [244] Re: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? - James Easton [86] Times of Recent "Green-flare" Leonid Meteors - Bob Soetebier - bikebob [40] DISPATCH # 110 -- the weekly newsletter of - ParaScope@AOL.COM [100] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Roger Evans [36] Re: Three 'Bird-Colonels' & Holloman AFB - Michael Christol [17] Proof Of Falseness Of Dore's Insinuations Re. Stig - Stig Agermose [65] Re: (Skyopen) FW: URGENT Meteor Lands In OZ And - Diane Harrison [18] Worldbook Encyclopedia on Jimmy Carter - Jerry Cohen [39] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - "Steven W. Kaeser" [14] Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' - Michael Christol [18] Re: UFO Information/History For A 7th Grade - John Hayes [28] Leonids Shower A Sprinkle - Some UFO Reports - Diane Harrison [54] ELFIS ISSUE 7 - 3 - Stephen MILES Lewis [58] Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' - Keith Woodard [20] Real Men Choose C! - Sean Jones [14] Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' - Steven Kaeser [7] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Jeff Rense [23] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - michael Hodges [14] Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' - Tim Matthews [30] Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' - Stan Friedman [9] Re: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? - Neil Morris [22] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Jim Mortellaro [14] Nov 20: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th - James Easton [88] Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' - Michael Christol [21] Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, 'Landing' Event? - Bob Soetebier - bikebob [29] Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' - Keith Woodard [7] Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Roger Evans [8] Crop Circle Lecture - November 28, 1998 - UFO*BC [22] Re: Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, "landing" - Bob Soetebier - bikebob [25] P-1947: Tesla, Marconi and Todd: First Contact? - James Easton [52] Filer's Files #46-1998 - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [358] Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' - Michael Christol [27] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Dave Ledger [43] Re: D.J. Oates on Hoagland's "Inside Sources" - Bob Soetebier - bikebob [9] Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Bruce Maccabee [6] Laura Lee Show E-News - November 21, 1998 - Laura Lee Show [108] Re: Real Men Choose C! - Larry Hatch [7] Re: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th - Steven W. Kaeser [10] Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' - Steven W. Kaeser [9] Skywatch: Re: NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft - agosa [9] NBC TV News On Triangle - Stig Agermose [26] BBS? [was: ...Info? On 'Branton'] - Michael Christol [20] Dead Cattle Alert Issued To Solve Mutilation Puzzle - Stig Agermose [62] Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed - Josh Goldstein [29] MJ-12 & 'Research By Proclamation'? - Stan Friedman [9] Re: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale - Josh Goldstein [5] Abduction of Blacks? - Thiago Ticchetti =20 [6] Stan Remembers... [was: ... Info? On 'Branton'] - Stan Friedman [13] Re: Real Men Choose C! - Bob Shell [3] Re: NBC TV News On Triangle - Steven Kaeser [103] Re: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th - Keith Woodard [125] Re: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th - Keith Woodard [125] Subterranean Base-ic Blues [was: ...Info? On - James Bond Johnson [21] Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' - Michael Lindemann [17] God, the Universe, and Everything... - Jim Mortellaro [43] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - _Almost_ Everybody! [39] Strange CIA Report on '75 Space Medicine Congress - Serge Salvaille [18] NASA Aircraft Sets New World Altitude Record - NASANews@hq.nasa.gov [91] Nov 21: Re: Abduction of Blacks? - Greg Sandow [10] Re: Real Men Choose C! - Serge Salvaille [2] Re: God, the Universe, and Everything... - Serge Salvaille [15] Flying V Sighted over Tampa, Florida - Stig Agermose [20] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - Tim Brigham [19] Re: Strange CIA Report on '75 Space Medicine - Thiago Ticchetti [8] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - Rick Goldsmith [7] Re: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale - Jim Mortellaro [5] Re: Stan Remembers... [was: ... Info? On 'Branton'] - Michael Christol [13] Re: Australian Meteor For Sale - Diane Harrison [30] Re: The Fear of Ancient Science - Bill Alford [23] Re: Strange CIA Report on '75 Space Medicine - Stan Friedman [20] Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] - Larry Hatch [8] Alfred's Odd Ode #281 - Alfred Lehmberg [72] Re: Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, 'Landing' - Jack Sargeant [4] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - 'Bill' [Anonimity Granted] [5] Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [33] Re: Stan Remembers... - Stan Friedman [6] Re: Australian Meteor For Sale [Stan on Oz Radio] - Stan Friedman [8] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - Donald Ledger [6] Re: Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, 'Landing' - David Gullick [11] Nov 22: D.J. Oates on Hoagland's "Inside Sources" - Bob Soetebier - bikebob [18] Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' - Jim Mortellaro [14] Re: Real Men Choose C! - Sue Kovios [11] Re: - Stig Agermose [61] Alien Life Forms May Be Inside Earth - Stig Agermose [94] Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' - Stan Friedman [3] Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] - Bob Shell [6] An Historic Report On Life In Space: [Transcript] - UFO UpDates - Toronto [543] Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking - Jerry Cohen [304] Re: Abduction of Blacks? - John Velez [22] Alien-Sex? - Werner Walter [6] Re: Abduction of Blacks? - Dennis [26] Re: Abduction of Blacks? - Thiago Ticchetti [10] Re: Project Silverbug - Sean Jones [8] Nov 23: Re: Subterranean Base-ic Blues - Jan Aldrich [28] Re: Alien-Sex? - Skye Turell [4] Re: Abduction of Blacks? - Roger Evans [52] Re: Alien-Sex? - Tim Brigham [9] Re: Alien-Sex? - Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [2] Sanchez-Ocejo: 'Abduction - An Essay' - Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [65] Sanchez-Ocejo: 'Ufology Demography' - An Essay - Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [53] UK House of Commons/Lords & UFOs? - Roy Hale [10] Re: Abduction of Blacks? - Pamela Stonebrooke [27] Re: Subterranean Base-ic Blues - Bruce Maccabee [4] Abductions In British Columbia - Bill Oliver [328] New CIA Info On 'U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue - Stig Agermose [104] Re: Abduction of Blacks - John Velez [42] NASA Mars Life Project Inspired By The Past - Stig Agermose Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> [115] An Historic Report On Life In Space: [Corrected] - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [550] Nov 24: Re: Abduction of Blacks? - Edoardo Russo [22] Re: Subterranean Base-ic Blues - Jsmortell@aol.com [10] Re: Sanchez-Ocejo: 'Ufology Demography' - An Essay - Jim Mortellaro [11] Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie - Roger R. Prokic [11] Min Min Lights - Sean Jones [10] Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] - Sean Jones [8] Re: UK House of Commons/Lords & UFOs? - Max Burns [5] Re: UK House of Commons/Lords & UFOs? - Donald Ledger [5] UFOR: ::: Tidbits from the Lodge ::: - Francisco Lopez [35] Question For The Circle Hoaxers: Williams & Damon - Roy Hale [25] Re: Times of Recent 'Green-flare' Leonid Meteors - Bob Soetebier - bikebob [66] Re: New CIA Info On 'U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue - Bruce Maccabee [13] Blather: Kill For Jesus - Daev Walsh - Blather [154] New Area 51 Pictures - Blair Cummins [12] Triangle Over UK's M1 Motorway - David Baker [10] Re: New CIA Info On U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue - Jan Aldrich [11] [UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Perry van den Brink [32] The 'Little People' [was: Abduction of Blacks] - Bob Shell [17] Re: The 'Little People' - Roger Evans [20] Re: Abduction of Blacks? - Greg Sandow [42] Re: New CIA Info On 'U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue - Serge Salvaille [12] Re: [UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Jerry Cohen [14] Re: Posting Instructions - UFO UpDates - Toronto [56] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 47 - Joseph Trainor [360] Re: The 'Little People' - Bob Shell [11] Re: The 'Little People' - Michael Christol [17] Nov 25: Re: Incident at Exeter? - Robert Earle [7] Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Gary Alevy [60] [CAUS updates] - Banned from UASR Mailing List - UFOLAWYER1@aol.com [69] UFOs - Ersatz Exposure, Oh Shocking! - Gary [50] Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie - Larry Hatch [5] Osiris - Gram [Larry Dean Hunter's Site Is Up] - Larry Dean Hunter [17] Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Stig Agermose [151] UK M1 Motorway Flying Triangle - 22/11/98 - Omar Fowler [20] SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Doc Barry [41] Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Marie Ivey [7] Re: UFOs - Ersatz Exposure, Oh Shocking! - Loy Pressley [32] Re: Incident at Exeter? - Stan Friedman [5] Re: The 'Little People' - Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug [26] Nov 26: John Ford - #1 - Alfred Lehmberg [279] John Ford - #2 - Alfred Lehmberg [614] Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 47 - Patrick V. Reavis [6] Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement - Jerome Clark [23] Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement - Tim Matthews [27] Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Jim Mortellaro [53] Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie - Jim Mortellaro [7] UFO Seen Over Nijmegen, The Netherlands - Andy Denne [24] 'Roswell Memo' Images On Friedman's New CD ROM - Stan Friedman [47] Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Jim Mortellaro [34] Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement - Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research [27] Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Sharon Kardol [13] Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Sharon Kardol [13] Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Stig Agermose [34] Meteorite Whizzes By Golfers Ear! - Bob Soetebier - bikebob [36] Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Serge Salvaille [23] Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Roger Evans [36] Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - John Velez [37] Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie - Larry Hatch [5] Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 47 - John Hayes [40] New Free Call Australian UFO Hot Line - Diane Harrison [24] Skywatch: What Dropped from the Sky? - Skywatch International [55] Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Greg St Pierre [21] Re: UFO Seen Over Nijmegen, The Netherlands - Henny van der Pluijm [14] Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement - Henny van der Pluijm [24] Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement - Darren Danks [13] Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Larry Hatch [20] Re: UFOs - Ersatz Exposure, Oh Shocking! - Jerome Clark [10] Re: New Free Call Australian UFO Hot Line - John Hayes [12] Larry Fawcett? - Philip Mantle [7] C-E: Books For Sale - Francis Ridge [57] Filer's Files #47-1998 - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [377] Re: Filer's Files #47-1998 - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [356] Nov 27: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Doc Barry Mauthority@webtv.net> [28] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Nick Balaskas [27] Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie - Michael Christol [5] Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Perry van den Brink - [UASR]> [59] Re: 'Roswell Memo' Images On Friedman's New CD ROM - Jim Mortellaro [9] Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Terry Blanton [15] Re: John Ford - #1 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [25] Re: John Ford - #2 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [12] When SETI gets an ET signal! - Doc Barry [33] Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Jim Mortellaro [82] Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie - Jim Mortellaro [7] Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Roger Evans [47] Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Serge Salvaille [36] Re: ETI Scientists Petition White House - Greg St. Pierre [28] Re: UFO UpDate: John Ford - #1 - Leanne Martin [6] Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Sharon Kardol [24] Alfred's Odd Ode #282 - Alfred Lehmberg [82] Kenny Young - New URL Location With Explanation - Kenny Young [57] Re: Min Min Lights - William Chalker [56] Re: Last Reminder about Crop Circle Lecture - David Pengilly - UFO*BC [15] Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie - Roger R. Prokic [9] Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images - Kevin Randle [44] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Christophe Meessen [45] Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Roger Evans [83] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Jim Mortellaro [24] Re: When SETI gets an ET signal! - Roger Evans [42] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Stan Friedman [28] Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Jim Mortellaro [46] Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Roger Evans [31] Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Stan Friedman [39] Re: 'Roswell Memo' Images On Friedman's New CD ROM - Stan Friedman [10] 'Kairos' & 'WingMakers' - Moderator, UFO UpDates _ Toronto [7] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Laurent Thiebaud" [6] Laura Lee Show E-News - November 28, 1998 - Laura Lee Show - webmaster@lauralee.com [99] Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images - Roger Evans [27] Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images - James Bond Johnson [15] Nov 28: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Jerome Clark [49] Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images - Kevin Randle [33] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - John Rimmer [10] Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Roger Evans [75] Ramey Message Scan On Web - Neil Morris [12] Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images - James Bond Johnson [11] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Stan Friedman [13] Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images - Stan Friedman [11] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Stan Friedman [8] Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! - Greg St. Pierre [16] Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Ignatius Graffeo [38] Crop Circle Hoaxes - More Questions... - Roy Hale [68] Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images - Serge Salvaille [11] Re: ETI Scientists Petition White House - Larry Hatch [32] Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie - Larry Hatch [6] Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie - Michael Christol [39] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Michael Christol [13] Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Michael Christol [5] Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Greg Sandow [67] Re: Min Min Lights - Sean Jones [9] WingMakers - Michael Theroux [19] Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Stan Friedman [6] Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images - Stan Friedman [17] Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House - Stan Friedman [36] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Christophe Meessen [21] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - Greg Sandow [20] Nov 29: UASR - CAUS - UFOnetwork Statement - "[UASR]> Perry van den Brink" [68] Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie - Roger R. Prokic [7] UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia - Diane Harrison [67] Re: Ramey Message Scan On Web - Greg Sandow [10] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Serge Salvaille [17] Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! - Roger Evans [43] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - Jerome Clark [35] Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Steven W. Kaeser [41] Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! - Stan Friedman [7] Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Roger Evans [59] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - John Velez [12] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Jim Mortellaro [15] November/December BARs to be Combined - BufoCalvin@aol.com [24] Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images - Kevin Randle [11] Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Greg St. Pierre [28] Re: Mars Marci Edl Movie - Roger R. Prokic [4] Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie - Roger Evans [19] Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Greg St. Pierre [50] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Jim Mortellaro [13] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Larry Hatch [17] Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia - Larry Hatch [23] Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! - Larry Hatch [29] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - John Rimmer [40] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - John Rimmer [26] Re: Ramey Message Scan On Web - Neil Morris [19] Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images - Stan Friedman [13] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Stan Friedman [14] Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! - Greg St. Pierre [23] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Stan Friedman [9] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - "Bill" [19] Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Ignatius Graffeo [37] Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Jerome Clark [50] WingMakers Update - HOAX -11.29.98 - Ignatius Graffeo [137] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Michael Christol [71] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - Jerome Clark [19] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - John Rimmer [7] Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia - Michael Christol [35] Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Serge Salvaille [86] Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! - Michael Christol [35] Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! - Roger Evans [79] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Michael Christol [5] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - Jerome Clark [9] Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Roger Evans [58] Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie - Michael Christol [63] Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images - Kevin Randle [29] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - Roger Evans [11] 'EXTRA' Awards - Stephen G. Bassett [64] Re: UFO Sighting in Scotland (29 Nov '98) - Ben Field [53] Re: When Seti Gets An ET Signal! - Greg St. Pierrre [3] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Nick Balaskas [39] Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images - Stan Friedman [12] Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia - Greg St. Pierre [21] Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia - Jim Mortellaro [53] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - John Rimmer [11] Re: UFO Pop Quiz... - Michel M. Deschamps [18] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - Susan Baldwin [24] Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement - Steven W. Kaeser [31] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Stan Friedman [8] Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia - Stan Friedman [5] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - Greg Sandow [81] Re: WingMakers Update - HOAX -11.29.98 - Jim Mortellaro [16] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Joachim Koch [78] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Jim Mortellaro [13] Nov 30: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! - Jean van Gemert [3] Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House - Roger Evans [24] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - Mendoza - Peter Brookesmith [315] Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! - Greg Sandow [21] Re: WingMakers - Greg Sandow [43] Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images - Roger Evans [26] Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images - michael Hodges [34] Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie - Greg Sandow [9] Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia - Roger Evans [41] Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth - Michael Christol [48] Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia - Sharon Kardol [6] Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] - Dennis Stacy [42]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 1 Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:42:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 07:46:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:59:41 -0800 >From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:54:40 -0400 >>>Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:59:09 -0800 >>>From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >>>I would of thought you would have removed MJ-12 hoax from your >>>lecture material after the online debate we had on this mailing >>>list towards the end of 1996. >>I have certainly not accepted the strange notion that the main >>MJ-12 documents are a hoax for reasons I have noted in several >>papers and in 'TOP SECRET/MAJIC', despite Ed's strange claim, >>among others, that they must be because they had no TS Control >>numbers. A position he maintained even after I pointed out that >>my 108 page 'Final Report on Operation Majestic 12' included >>five previously TS documents without control numbers and that >>the Archivist at the Eisenhower Library pointed out that control >>numbers were not used all the time. >My claims were independently supportable and verifiable over the >entire spectrum of the MJ-12 saga. As I was able to show, most >of the MJ-12 hoax has now been a matter of record for almost a >decade and uncovered by the research of members in the UFO >community. We can relive the entire argument if so desire. It is >mostly still archived on this mailing list, at least the >portions of the threads after Dec 11, 1996 "MJ-12 and Area 51". >It involved quite a few people including Kevin Randle, Peter >Brookesmith, Dennis Stacy, Jan Aldrich, yourself and me, plus >many others. It started before the list began archiving messages >and went to the point where you had enough and left. We covered >every major claim of yours that you postulated in TOP >SECRET/MAJIC and showed your arguments to be either flawed or >downright false. We also showed the pitifull flaws in the SOM >Manual. You in turn did not and could not provide any evidence >that supported your contentions. <snip> >Will the real Stanton Friedman please stand up? Your fans are >demanding that you prove me wrong. They are counting on you! >Ed Stewart Sorry, Ed. I believe my many fans are counting on me to spend my time more productively than engaging in mud slinging with you.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 1 Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:07:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 08:30:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking The posts entitled "Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking" are stored at the sites of Jerome Clark and Ed Stewart. (Graciously archived by Glenn Campbell at UFOMind) Jerome and Ed, if you so desire, feel free to add the following.... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Point of information: Has anyone besides myself noticed that, although many are excellent, the topics being discussed in this thread series haven't had the word "Oberg" in it for at least 30 or more posts? Then, his name appeared once and disappeared. I think there may be over 60 postings at latest count. At this point, I feel qualified to put my 2-cents in since my website was originally dedicated to "examining for flaws," _one_ essay written by the person whose name appears in the title of all these posts. I suppose this falls into the definition of "debunking." Using the same title as the thread, we could examine this whole thing from another angle; the Failure Of The 'Science' of Mr. Oberg's efforts to debunk certain UFO cases & Researchers. First I'd like to comment on why I believe the posts with the above title have diverged so far from our original theme. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - When I first came on to the net in 1996, I noticed that many of the discussions occurring on "alt.paranet.ufo" would degenerate into generalized personal attacks on one individual or another, with no solid substance to back them up. It wasn't a pleasant scene. Certain people seemed bent upon displaying their animosity toward other researchers. Instead of focusing on the nitty-gritty of cases, these people seemed content fighting with others over generalities rather than digging in and looking closely at the _specifics_ of each case. It seemed to me we were "spinning our wheels." Research, it wasn't. There was little "documentation" offered to support the things they were saying and participants were arguing back and forth as to who was correct or not; in a few cases, with some nasty lower class name calling in the process, as if this would solve the situation. I also noticed that in some cases, 'UFO History' seemed to have been forgotten and/or 'bent out of shape' with time. Some people were even claiming Hynek was a mole for the CIA, etc. I was actually amazed at some of the things I was reading & what some people were thinking. Then, along the way, perhaps via someone's posting, I discovered EBK's mail list. Discussions were much better here because Errol felt the way I and a number of other people did. He was making the supreme effort to read most if not all the discussions, and make sure that the exchange of views were 'research' based rather than "attack" based. When Glenn Campbell came along to archive everything, the mail list was elevated yet another important notch. Concerning Oberg's Essay On Cooper & my rebuttal: When I read Mr. Oberg's essay on Gordon Cooper, I immediately realized that the knowledge I felt I had accumulated over the years concerning Hynek and McDonald was at odds with what Mr. Oberg had written. I also disagreed with some of the conclusions he had come to regarding some of the cases he had used as examples therein and I composed a reply. When I began posting my Oberg/Cooper series, I had in mind to post something that would be thoroughly documented (i.e. a person could read most of it and check it for himself in the library for accuracy) and then closely examine what Mr. Oberg was saying and perhaps, in the process via research, try to bring at least _some_ accurate history back to the table. i.e., I wanted us to find our "roots" again. Interestingly, sometime in December 1996 in the midst of some interesting discussions between some Europeans, Americans, Canadians and others concerning various facets of the UFO situation, a piece was posted in its entirety on the list for all of us to peruse. It was progressively filled with inflammatory words against America & Americans and could have easily incited hateful discussions between some of the very people having the discussions. It reminded me of the lesser material I'd read on alt.paranet.ufo. Ed Stewart's name was on the header. Another person had written the article. (It's long folks, but to make the point, here it is) You can check the original header here; http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1996/dec/m21-004.shtml I've done my best to more clearly format same at my site: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/estewart_fs.html Perhaps Ed and the original author thought that Americans were supposed to read this and _not_ be totally offended by the disrespectful anti-American (and anti-British, at one point) attitude evidenced throughout the piece from an obviously, extremely prejudiced author. (Especially the latter portions.) In order keep the original discussions flowing without interruption, we disposed of this judiciously at the time; not that selective portions of it might not have been worthy for discussion. However, we were finally heading toward discussions concerning case details, etc. and didn't want to revert to generalizing at this point. Being new at the net, surprised at the intense anger I saw emanating from the article (unusual for EBK's list), proud of being American no matter what our faults, and having been searching for sites I thought looked interesting enough to examine in depth, I posted the following response: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1996/dec/m26-007.shtml My listing of various URLs did not mean that I advocated any of them as proof of UFO visitation but rather did so to demonstrate that there were things people were saying that at least might be examined for authenticity. Over the course of time some of them even proved incapable of supporting their conclusions. The point was that we shouldn't allow ourselves to become lost in "generalities." If a reported UFO were to be the real thing and to actually be ET, if one takes the attitude that UFOs can't possibly exist or, God forbid, possibly have an ET connection, one will obviously never see the real thing if it were standing there staring him/her right in the face. One has to carefully sift through the majority of available evidence in order to make a valid final determination. Those that spend most of their lives arguing over generalities without examining the specifics of cases never afford themselves the opportunity of making any sort of fair determination. I finished my reply by asking Ed why he posted the original _entire_ piece because it just didn't seem to fit in what I considered to be basically civilized, intelligent, focused discussions emanating from EBK's list. My thought was that people in the House, Senate, or any administrative body don't speak to each other like this. We shouldn't either. It is possible I missed his answer, although I searched for it for quite some time afterwards. However, after thinking about it at various times since then and seeing to where this recent series of "Obergian?" posts has progressed and thinking about why, I now believe I have a better understanding of Stewart's (and one or two others) approach to ufology. I suspect Stewart's response to Westrum's "Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking" and the direction this thread has taken is probably the answer to my original question; i.e. he sometimes, consciously or unconsciously, purposely or not (take your pick), tends to steer us away from a) "keeping an open mind" regarding UFOs and b) helping us stay tightly focused on the original topic. Jerome Clark's posting of Ron Westrum's paper, The Promise Of Ufology, http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m03-024.shtml was originally meant to be a counter to some of the things said by James Oberg a number of years ago and was resubmitted by Jerome simply to remind us all that we still need to keep an open mind on probably the most enigmatic, persistent subject of our century which, one can notice by simply reading all these recent posts, is capable of inciting some extremely heated debate. Serious researchers know it certainly has been a slow and difficult task to accumulate enough of the right type of data over the years which scientists might find useful for study; especially considering the limited resources available to UFO researchers and the sporadic nature of the UFO "appearances" themselves. Additionally, anyone consulting the many available books, etc. discovered for themselves the Condon Committee did not arrive easily at its earlier conclusion that we cannot justify further research into UFOs. (See my website for a readily available, accurately footnoted replay concerning the Colorado project.) I know Jerome has most probably gone into even greater depth in his UFO Encyclopedia. Unfortunately, Stewart fails to realize (or consciously chooses not to) that finally, through the hard work of a number of researchers, enough data has accumulated to at least pique the curiosity of today's scientists and to inspire them to put "Science" back on the path to a bit more enlightened approach regarding UFOs; i.e. the Sturrock Workshop _did_ indeed see fit to overturn the part of the 1969 Colorado Project pronouncement that stated "...further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced thereby." There was evidently enough solidity to some of the material presented at the workshop that finally got the scientists to give it second thought. It is true they didn't feel the ETH was conclusively proven by what was submitted. However, as a group they decided that as remote as it might be, based on the evidence presented by GEPAN/SEPRA plus other physical & biological documented presentations, all of which hadn't been available to previous serious reviews by the establishment, it was not "totally" impossible. A long shot, yes, but the majority of the reviewers chose not to go down in history as people refusing to at least keep some sort of open mind on the subject. I, for one, will never understand what _some_ people find so wrong with this. It sounds intelligent to me. Simple open-mindedness vs close-mindedness. There is some interesting unexplained evidence. BTW, I finished reading Michael Swords and Mark Rodeghier's writeups on the workshop and found them both to be excellently done. Readers can obtain same from The J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies simply by subscribing to their journal; The International UFO Reporter, 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60659. Both gentlemen made presentations at the historic workshop. If other members of the workshop, review scientists and/or presenters, write any additional impressions of same, I hope we all intend to read those as well. Regarding Ed's statements concerning The Sturrock Workshop's findings: Apparently, Ed is not happy with the preceding interpretation I've presented, stating instead that this is Sturrock's own interpretation and that the other members of the committee didn't agree with his (Sturrock's) conclusion. (Attempting to draw a parallel to what happened with the Condon study.) http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m19-008.shtml But, from all I've been able to ascertain, this is not the case as we shall momentarily see. If I've understood all the material I've read in the 60 or so postings (and it would be easy to miss something), Ed also believes that Condon was pretty much totally correct in his original conclusion. Unfortunately, if one were to completely buy into all of Ed's statements regarding the Sturrock Workshop's findings, he/she would also have to come to the following conclusion: When Stewart says that Condon was _totally_ correct in his original pronouncement, he's also basically saying any inspired discoveries regarding "earthlights" which Paul Devereux makes in attempting to prove the "believers" wrong, have no value to science either. ... Obviously, many skeptics as well as many members of the other side would tell you this is absurd.* Of course, Ed will attempt to rationalize his way out of this dilemma but, no matter how hard he may try, it is obvious he will fail. Mind you, I'm not putting Ed in this corner, he's put himself there. He's lost points with intelligent skeptics as well as skeptic believers. http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m15-013.shtml Now, regarding Ed'S Statements that Jerome Clark is attempting to rewrite UFO history: To check the validity of Ed's interpretation, any interested reader can click on any or all of the following to get the complete picture regarding the Sturrock Committee's findings, and decide for _themselves_ who is really attempting to rewrite history regarding same, Stewart or Clark. Don't listen to Clark, don't listen to Stewart and don't listen to me. Here it is, read it: http://www.abcnews.com:80/sections/science/DailyNews/ufo980629.html http://www.jse.com/PR_UFO_98.html http://www.jse.com/ufo_reports/Sturrock/toc.html http://www.jse.com/skeptics.html Getting back to my original thoughts concerning Ed's approach to ufology. What _is_ interesting is what has happened to this original thread from its inception. I've noted that Stewart, although he claims Clark is doing this to him, keeps finding it necessary to prod and attack Clark (the person) with inflammatory language, rather than sticking to "Obergian facts." (i.e. facts directly concerning Oberg) That's what the title of these posts said we should be doing. Sound familiar? It's exactly what was going on back in 1996. (i.e. note paragraph 4 from the bottom in URL below) http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m10-032.shtml A partial effect of this is to slowly lead us all away from the original discussion and into generalization and low class character attacks, rather than focusing on _facts_ specifically relating to the original topic. Those that want to go back to the Neanderthal "days of yore," attacking one another, please feel free to do so. However, those that do are showing your character flaws. If you can't make your case without this method of approach, you probably have no case. I'm sure Errol will have something interesting to say about it very shortly, if he hasn't been thinking about it already. This researcher proposes we get specific again and recalibrate our focus back to the original topic of this thread. Back to 'Obergian Debunking': As a point of information: The Oberg/Cooper website (along with writings from other Obergian critics) should have indicated to anyone taking time to read it that Mr. Oberg evidenced a certain myopic tendency regarding several UFO cases and at least two major researchers of the past, Hynek & McDonald; virtually slandering both of them. These things certainly deserve to be discussed honestly and openly and acknowledged by those that think _everything_ he says is gospel. It is also interesting to note that although the Oberg/Cooper site has been around for more than two years, neither Ed nor any other skeptic has seen fit to comment upon any of the parts that pertain to Oberg himself. (Even though the 'Quebec Skeptics Society' personally asked me to mail them a copy of the rebuttals, which I did. BTW, if they found something dramatically wrong with them, shouldn't they have responded? This was more than a year and a half ago.) http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/jul/m21-012.shtml Perhaps they would like to do so now. It is also interesting that a number of readers emailed me to tell me they felt many of the points I raised concerning Mr. Oberg's gaps of knowledge concerning Hynek, McDonald, and perhaps Cooper as well, were valid ones and yet, _no_ other skeptic has seen fit to take a moment to discuss some of those concerns. They've typically ignored them. Unfortunately, ignoring them doesn't make them go away. Mr. Oberg posted his own _generalized_ negative comments re the site but never answered my invitation to "discuss" any _specific_ item he felt was inaccurate. I even offered to amend said item, if he'd simply demonstrate its inaccuracy to most of us. Of course, again, it was easier (safer, less time consuming?) _not_ to bother: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/mar/m11-023.shtml It should be readily apparent to most from the preceding that if there is any "failure" here, it is a failure of the _skeptics_, for the past two years, to respond to _specific_ criticisms that were raised regarding Mr. Oberg, stemming from his Cooper essay located at the websites below. Well, since the skeptics have finally brought up the subject, I'll focus in on some of those things in upcoming posts. As one can readily see, an honest discussion of these items is certainly long overdue and may even fit the main topic of this thread a bit more closely than some of the generalities we've all been reading. Skeptical of _some_ skeptics, (and ready to adjust anything that _most of us_ feel needs adjusting) Jerry Cohen Author: Oberg/Cooper rebuttals Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ UFOmind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/ * I'm certainly not saying Paul's efforts explain 100% of the UFOs reported but, if his data, after it is examined by the main scientific body proves to be correct, at least a portion of UFOs reported certainly could be from this source. P.S. To be helpful, as discussions progress, you can probably most easily maneuver between the essays from my site, as the URLs I have included there were intended to make dissection much easier.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 1 Re: More Music!! From: Pamela Stonebrooke <galactic_diva@telis.org> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:41:36 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 08:35:00 -0500 Subject: Re: More Music!! >Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:36:27 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Marie Ivey <jmi@aretha.jax.org> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Now that's what I call Music!! >Hi, This has to be a first--A thread were everyone up to this >point has been positive--a common ground. This is really >wonderful. "Harmony", at last. >Best regards, >Marie Hi All, Chiming in. I'm a singer/songwriter/recording artist. One of two lead vocalists for the band Agartha (Rain of Mercy) on the New Age Charts. Also an indy deal with Sunset Records in Germany. (Beware..it's a wave thang) Four cuts on their compilation...also on the double CD is Robbie Dupree...awesome...if anyone knows him) I think you can hear sample cuts by going to www.sunset records.com (not crazy about my picture though...and remember it's one of my lightest/wave cuts) I also program and have a small midi studio...and (what was I thinking) produced and released my own (all original stuff) CD and cassette "Experiencer". (no small feat) People say it sound like Sade meets Grace Jones) It has two of my contact-inspired songs...one of which is on the Germany compilation. Also, was opening act for Kenny G. (doing jazz and originals), toured Europe singing background with with Hoyt Axton (on the same bill with Johnny Cash, Tammy and Jerry Lee and lots of booze) and recorded and toured as featured female vocalist for Sparks (anyone remember them?) for three years. I do jazz clubs and sing for private parties in LA...my jazz trio and I did Larry Flint's wedding. Sang for Gene Roddenberry's last couple of birthdays. Lots more but 'nough already from Hollywood. Enjoyed the posts. Would love to know what other artists are releasing UFO/contact material. I think there are many...but don't listen to mainstream/MOR much. All the best, Pamela
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 1 Re: Universal Quotes From: Pamela Stonebrooke <galactic_diva@telis.org> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:41:59 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 08:40:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Universal Quotes >Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:32:30 -0600 (CST) >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: universal quotes >A few relevant quotes, which those of us in ufology might >do well to ponder ... >QUOTES ON THE NATURE OF THE UNIVERSE >Douglas Adams: "There is a theory which states that if ever >anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is >here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something >even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory >which states that this has already happened." <snip> Hi, Great quotes... I'm looking for a quote by H.G. Wells. Something about scientists being unable to accept any new theories...for fear that they may have to admit to not knowing them in the first place....something like that. Anyone know the exact quote? Thanks.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 1 Comments from Paul Dore Re: SETI 'Hit' From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 13:38:08 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 08:53:51 -0500 Subject: Comments from Paul Dore Re: SETI 'Hit' We should quit calling Paul Dore a hoaxer until we are certain of it. Forwarded message from the Vortex Free Energy listserver: Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 03:39:25 -0600 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: mjones@jump.net (Mitchell Jones) Subject: Comments from Paul Dore re SETI hit News conference slated for Wenesday November 4th, despite allegations of a hoax. Paul Dore and two radio astronomers from the Effelsberg Radio Observatory in Effelsberg, Germany are to announce the discovery of repeating, artificial signals from space at a press conference to take place in London Wenesday Novemeber 4th. When the engineer was asked what he thought of of the allegations that this was all a hoax he responded, "This is absolutely not a hoax. I will admit there were problems with the first two images I posted being infact the same one with the wrong date stamp on one. I was so excited I rushed onto the Internet to a CLOSED list to get confirmation. Unfortunately I wasn't careful to check the two images. I admit that was sloppy however the people alleging that I made this all up have yet to refute any of the subsequent screen dumps I posted." (Series 1026-1, 1026-2, 1027-1 on this site) "Furthermore they have not seen the data from the observatory in Europe. I feel they are basically calling this a hoax because they feel left out. This was not the type of signal the SETI establishment was expecting ie: a beacon signal announcing "hello" nor is it an interstellar version of I love lucy." When asked what he thought the signals were he responded, "That would be speculation and I would rather not speculate however my expertise is in radar. I've worked on radar systems for the RAF and I feel that this is most likely a radar or navigational signal, perhaps intended for an interstellar probe that just happens to be in our general direction. Again, due to the nature of my work I am somewhat biased." When told that the SETI project at Harvard known as BETA disabled their real-time data website his response was: "That does not suprise me one bit. We have had a hard time observing since this was publicized. It seems that at times the signal is being wiped out by a close by noise source though I won't go so far as to say its intentional jamming. Additionally I have had a car with government tags shadowing me for the last few days since my identity was revealed on the internet. I am not the paranoid type, as I said before, I don't trust many people, and that includes the government. It's just my nature." When asked about the Buisness Wire story he responded: "I haven't seen that but I assuming it asserts this is a hoax I have no further comment other than I am satisfied that it is not. Next Wenesday will make that point perfectly and completely clear beyond a shadow of a doubt." ***{The question is: do the powers that be have enough juice to cover this up, now that it has gone this far? As noted earlier, governments have a virtual monopoly on radio telescope dishes, but from the account of the fellow on Guernsey, a 1.5 meter dish is good enough to read this signal. That means there are probably thousands of private individuals around the world who will be able to confirm Paul Dore's claim. How can that state of affairs be dealt with? Is there a cover story that can be cooked up which will work in such a situation? The best idea that I can think of would be for the U.S. military to announce that the signal is coming from a secret deep space probe launched several years ago from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The dupes in the controlled press would pick that up and transmit it to the mindless masses as holy writ, and it would be dutifully believed. Result: the ET genie would be back in his bottle, where our rulers want to keep him. --Mitchell Jones}***
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 1 Re: Comments from Paul Dore Re: SETI 'Hit' From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 13:40:56 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 08:59:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments from Paul Dore Re: SETI 'Hit' Another post on Vortex. Looks like an independent confirmation of *something*. <g> Terry Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 23:35:44 -1000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Comments from Paul Dore re SETI hit Mitchell - I wrote: >By the way, I think that second guy's dish is >supposedly 4.5 meters, and not 1.5 meters. >Haven't checked the web site version to >confirm that yet. Saw Dore's traces on the >Geocities site though. Ok, now I checked it. Here's the message from the second source. It is 4.5 meters: >From: gu0nhd@hotmail.com >Greetings, >I am an amateur radio operator on the Isle of >Guernsey offshore from Normandy. When I >saw the story of the possible SETI discovery >on the BBC I immediately went to work to >see if I could pick the signals up. I normally >work stations in the 23cm band which is >near the frequency that the signals were >allegedly transmitted (1296Mhz as opposed >to 1450 Mhz). I have a 4.5 meter dish I use >for point to point communication as well as >moonbounce (whereby we bounce signals off >of the moon) I also have an ICOM 8500 >receiver so I was readily equipped to follow >this up. I set my dish to the coordinates I >found on your website after I converted them >to azimuth and elevation and I set my radio >and a program called Setifox (which I >downloaded off of the Internet) to search >between 1445 and 1455Mhz. At >approximately 12:30 GMT (about the time >when EQ Pegasi rose in my sky) the >program began logging what looked like a >faint carrier signal. It slowly faded into >view and when the signal became strong >enough the computer alerted me. I began to >set the antenna to track the source over the >next few hours. I started into this >completely skeptical and sure this was >another UFO scare now I am just as puzzeled >as the scientists. If this is a signal from >another star it is incredibly strong. This >would have to be beamed directly at us as far >as I can tell. I hope this information is of >some value. >Best Regards, >K F Benton - GU0NHD, Castel, Guernsey, UK - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 1 Re: The Ed Stewart Show From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> Date: Sat 31 Oct, 1998 12:25 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 09:03:33 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ed Stewart Show >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:47:10 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The Ed Stewart Show >The "UFO problem"? >The only "UFO problem" I can see around here is you, Ed. In the >final analysis, I'm afraid Jerome Clark is right. You are just a >mean spirited old fart ("old fart" are my words, not Jerry's). >As best as I can tell, you have little interest in UFOs beyond >using the information you collect as bait for some unsuspecting >soul that you can verbally attack to make yourself feel better. >Personally, I think you owe Stan and the list an apology for >such uncivilized behavior. If you can't account for yourself and >control your actions, then your precious "archives" are as >questionable in content as your are in character. >I have no use for you. >Roger Evans, >Houston, Texas Roger, Roger that! <g> Best wishes, Roger Roger R. Prokic Telecom Design Lead Mars Surveyor 2001 Program Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 1 Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 12:11:01 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 09:09:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:26:14 -0500 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >>Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:14:26 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >Was I holding the .................(gulp) ESTIMATE? >Lest your eyes pop out and you heart skip 17 beats, let me rush >to advise, sadly, NO! >At best it was the "Ghost of the Estimate"...... the watered >down version described by Rudiak and others on this list. It is historically incorrect to even suggest that report 100-203-79 as the "Ghost of the Estimate", an alleged "watered down version" of Ruppelt's alleged 'Estimate of the Situation'. We know the order from General Cabell that initiated the action which led to the writing of report 100-203-79 was dated 27 July 1948 and the handwritten memo stated: QUOTE 1. Examine the pattern of tactics of the "Flying Saucers" and develop conclusions therefrom as to their probability. 2. Assuming their reality, what would be their strategies or tacticall purpose in appearing over the U.S.? CPC UNQUOTE Also many released progress reports forwarded to General Cabel, coordinated by various branches and divisions of the Air Staff during the ensuing months, are part of the released record. They show a chain of evidence from the very beginning (Gen. Cabell's order of 27 July 1948) to its final distribution. The record clearly shows that report 100-203-79 was solely an Air Staff report initiated before the alleged "Estimate of the Situation" which was allegedly an action originated by the Air Material Command and after the start date of report 100-203-79. In other words, the pedigree and provenance to 100-203-79 has been stablished which shows it to be a totally independent document of the alleged "Estimate of the Situation". Its start date also preceeds the many alleged start dates of the "Estimate of the Situation". Anyone that insists on calling report 100-203-79 the "Ghost of the Situation" is ignoring the entire released record of all the documents associated with report 100-203-79. This material was first released in the mid 1980s due to the efforts of Robert Todd with continued minor releases of the ancillary documentation made to Robert Todd into the early 1990s and has been in the hands of responsible researchers and historians for many years. Yet, the record doesn't appear to make an impact on present day ufological wisdom. The "ghost of the estimate" is to this day still part of that ufologicall wisdom. Ed Stewart -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart ufoindex@jps.net|So Man, who here seems principal alone, There Is Something |Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Going On! ,>'?'<, |Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) |'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ----------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -----
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 1 Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking From: Keith Stevens <k.stevens@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:51:51 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 09:13:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:37:39 -0500 >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >While I do not doubt that you have some experience in the >"secret document" area and have trouble believing what several >credible people have testified to under their own names. >So what. You just have to get over it. >You know, I also had trouble believing that the CIA had run >drugs in Southeast Asia and had hired terrorists to mine the >harbors of nations we were not at war with. >But, you know, my "belief" had nothing to do with it because >these things happened, were testified to by credible people >under their own names, documented and independently verified. >Do you know of any nation which has not had its secure documents >compromised? >Weren't those classified documents found in Aldrich Ames' home? >The inside operative is toughest to find as James Angleton knew >to well. >How about the voluminous amount of documents transferred by >Pollard to our embarrassment. >As to your statement "I find it very hard to believe that anyone >would admit to having a copy of this particular document". Well >all of these men - Ruppelt, Keogh and Hynek did go on record >saying they had read the document and at least transiently had a >copy of it. >Wishful thinking won't solve the questions raised. Your dog >doesn't hunt. >Gary Hi Gary and list The trouble with using the activities of the CIA as examples is that you are talking here of mostly established facts.These are all out in the Public domain.The story fully(?)documented now.The same goes for Aldrich Ames.In his case he-never-openly claimed to have any documents in his possession prior to his arrest. No I feel that in this particular case we are not talking about a substantiated event but an unsubstantiated event. As of yet we still do not have the Document which would prove the case! All we have are unsupported claims by various individuals that they have seen it. Now I am not saying that they are making false claims,far from it.The exceptional does sometimes happen.However from my own,admittedly modest 17 years, Military Service experience,I find it very hard to believe that a doubtless Top Secret Document has been down graded to Unclassified status immediately prior to destruction,and,that-if- a copy of this Unclassified Document does indeed exit why has it not been shown in public? To me it makes little sense. You will doubtless realize that I have not tried to cast any doubts on the documents reality.Its simply that I find the claimed final down grading,destruction and subsequent non revelation as totally unbelievable.Would someone please prove me wrong. Finally with regards to your 'Dog' analogy,in this particular case this 'Dog' keeps hunting.......for the truth!.....its out there! Regards Keith.......Keep the Faith!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 1 Re: Top SETI Scientist Denounces Alien Signal Hoax From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:18:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 09:24:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Top SETI Scientist Denounces Alien Signal Hoax >From: John White <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RRe: Top SETI Scientist Denounces Alien Signal Hoax >Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:09:10 -0700 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >>Subject: Re: Top SETI Scientist Denounces Alien Signal Hoax >>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:05:02 -0500 >>>Scientist Denounces Elaborate Alien Signal Hoax >><snip> >>Well well, a scientific hoax! Who would have guessed? Time for >>the old debunker steamroller stamp. >>This hoax surely implies that the whole SETI project is a hoax, >>that Sagan et al. knew from the beginning, and are thus fraud, >>that any data SETI ever gets will be either hallucination or >>wishful thinking. Anything else? Sure. Any pro-SETI scientist is >>no scientist anymore when he/she even thinks SETI, only some >>poor gullible SOB. >>There. This had to be said for the sake of Science. >>I feel better. >Serge, List, et al., >I was shocked by the hubris of SETI's spokesfolks in their >certainty as to 'hoax'. These guys' anthropomorphic approach to >"alien" communication techniques makes loose shoes ufologists >look conservative by comparison. >Jeez. >Best of ...... >John White mjawhite@digitaldune.net Well, I certainly have to agree with you John on your thoughts here, you would think researchers would take more time to be certain about things. There's more new news already and more people getting involved, who knows before it's over someone may have to get their foot out of their mouth.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 1 HOT GOSSIP UK - NOVEMBER From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 05:01:53 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 10:42:38 -0500 Subject: HOT GOSSIP UK - NOVEMBER HOT GOSSIP UK - NOVEMBER 1998 www.hotgossip.co.uk THE "UNEXPLAINED" SECTION by Georgina Bruni http://www.hotgossip.co.uk/unexgoss.html NEWS FLASH - TALK BY AL BIELEK THE HANSARD RECORDS FOR OCTOBER 1998 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * NEWS FLASH **** **** NEWS FLASH **** **** NEWS FLASH A TALK WITH AL BIELEK EXPERIMENTS IN TIME STARTED IN 1943 ARE STILL CONTINUING * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Alfred Bielek was born 4 August 1916 as Edward A Cameron II. Al and his brother Duncan Cameron, claim they were involved in an experiment that took place in Philadelphia in 1943. This experiement was allegedly commisioned by the US Navy to test technology that was believed to make a ship Radar invisible. The three main scientists believed to be involved in this project were Dr Nicola Tesla, Dr Albert Einstein and Dr John von Neumann. The Philadelphia Experiment is one of the world=92s most intriguing mysteries. This talk, featuring one of the major players, will cover the history of the project, a description of the theory and hardware used, who was involved, the ET connection, the changes in directorship and the consequences of the second test. It will also feature The Montauk Project, an experience in time travel, space and time manipulation and the rewriting of history through ET involvement. Whatever your beliefs - this talk promises to be very interesting. Sunday 22 November 1998 Conway Hall, Red Lion Square, London WC1 Nearest Tube - Holborn - Doors Open 10.30am -5pm Details & Bookings: 0181 518 8633 [Evenings] 0956278 391 Send your cheques to: Chris Barnes, Beyond Belief, 1 Trinity Road, Wood Green, London N22 8LB. _________________________________________________ This month I have dedicated my whole column to reproducing the Hansard Records for October 1998 because I believe there are some very important references to the UFO phenomena. I know Nick Pope keeps promising to do this, but he=92s very busy writing his new novel, so I=92m doing it instead - with his blessing of course. As always, we must be grateful to Lord Hill-Norton for pushing these questions in the House of Lords. As far as I am aware, these are all the UFO related Questions for October 1998. There are some very detailed replies, especially the list of UFO reports, which is a breakthrough as far as Answers go. It=92s interesting to note that =93Secret Intelligence=94 are quoted in the records, and notice the many references to Royal Air Force [RAF] installations. I am amazed that the Ministry of Defence [MOD] continue to insist that these sightings are of =93no defence significance=94 considering that Fighter Commands and Bombing Commands were experiencing unusual aerial phenomena as far back as 1943. These records are now freely available at the Public Records Office for anyone interested in viewing them. _____________________________________________________ Written Answers - 14 October 1998 - Unidentified Flying Objects Lord Hill-Norton asked her Majesty=92s Government: Whether they will list the document references and titles of all open files at the Public Record Office that contain information about unidentified flying objects. [HL3314] The Lord Chancellor (Lord Irvine of Laig): I list below the document references and titles of all open files at the Public Record Office known to staff to contain information about unidentified flying objects. There may be information in other open files but this could be discovered only at disproportionate cost. AIR 2 Air Ministry Registered Files AIR 2/16918 1961-1963, alleged sightings of UFO=92s. Letters from members of the public on alleged sightings. Magazine entitled Cosmic Voice - Mars and Venus Speak to Earth=94, dated November-December 1961/Article entitled Men from Outer Space: Are they visiting Britain? AIR 2/17318 1963 UFO reports AIR 2/17526 1964 UFO reports AIR 2/17527 1964-1965 UFO reports AIR 2/17982 1965-1966 UFO reports AIR 2/17983 1966 UFO reports (with photographs) AIR 2/17984 1966-1967 UFO reports (with photographs) AIR 14 Bomber Command AIR 14/2800 1943 December No.115 Squadron: News Sheet =93Bang On=94 No.1, Aerial phenomena-reports of UFOs on RAF bombing raids. AIR 16 Fighter Command AIR 16/1199 1952 September Flying Saucers: occurrence reports by service personnel at Topcliffe station, Thirsk, and local public. AIR 20 Unregistered Papers AIR 20/7390 1952 Reported sightings of UFOs: memorandum prepared for the War Office. AIR 20/9320 1957 Parliamentary Question from 17 April 1957 by Mr Stan Awbery MP: To ask the Secretary of State for Air, what recent investigations have been made into unidentified flying objects; what photographs have been taken; and what reports have been made on this subject. Reply by Secretary of State (Mr Ward). Notes on UFOs provided for the Ministers use. Also: UFO incident at West Freugh in Wigtownshire in 1957; incidents and signals at RAF Church Lawford, RAF Bempton and RAF Lakenheath; newspaper clippings 6 April 1957 from the News Chronicle and The Evening Standard; photographs of object over the Channel Islands from the Daily Sketch of 6 April 1957. AIR 20/9321 1957 Parliamentary Question 15 May 1957 from Major Patrick Wall MP: To ask the Secretary of State for Air, how many unidentified flying objects have been detected over Great Britain this year as compared with previous years; and whether the object picked up on radar over the Dover Straits on 29 April has yet been identified. Further questions to the Minister from Mr Frank Beswick MP. Notes for Minister on reported sightings. Replies by Mr Ward. Newspaper clippings April-May 1957: The Times, News Chronicle, Daily Worker, Daily Mirror, Daily Sketch, Daily Telegraph, Daily Express and the Evening News. AIR 20/9322 1957 Parliamentary Question 15 May 1957 from Mr Frank Beswick MP: To ask the Secretary of State for Air, what was the nature of the aircraft or other aircraft sighted on the radar defence screens on Monday night and which occasioned the dispatch of Fighter Command. Reply by Mr Ward. Notes for Ministers. AIR 20/9994 Headquarters Southern Section Intelligence. Reports on Aerial Phenomena, including =93observation of unusual aerial phenomena at Royal Air Force Ventor on 29 July 1957=94. Two Copies of =93Track Tracing=94 Sheets. Description of UFOs, for example, RAF Lyneham 9 December 1957: =93December 1957: Description large bright crescent shaped object or could be a sphere with trails from edges. Travelling on a course of 290 degrees at a moderate speed. Seemed to be descending and not at a very great height=94. AIR 20/11887 1967 August (with maps) AIR 20/11888 1967 September AIR 20/11889 1967 October (with photographs) AIR 20/11890 1967 October (with maps) AIR 20/11891 1967 November (with maps) AIR 20/11892 1967 November AIR 20/11893 1967 December AIR 22 Periodical Returns, Summaries and Bulletins AIR 22/93 1955 Air Ministry Secret Intelligence Summary March 1955. Volume 10, Article No 3 on Flying Saucers =93An object was reported...=94 PREM 11/855 1952 Personal Minute from the Prime Minister, Mr Winston Churchill to the Secretary of State for Air, Lord Cheswell, dated 28 July 1952. =93What does all this stuff about flying saucers amount to? What can it mean? What is the truth? Let me have a report at your convenience.=94 Minute from Secretary of State, dated 9 August 1952, dismissing stories about flying saucers. Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty=92s Government: Whether they will list the document references and titles of all closed files at the Public Record Office that contain information about unidentified flying objects. [HL3315] The Lord Chancellor: I list below the document references and titles of all closed files in the Public Record Office known to its staff to contain information about unidentified flying objects. There may be information in other closed files but this could be discovered only at disproportionate cost. AIR 2 Air Ministry: Registered Files AIR 2/18183 1968-1969 Unidentified Flying Objects* AIR 20 Unregistered Papers AIR 20/11612 1967-1968 Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs)* AIR 20/11895 1968 April UFOS* AIR 20/11896 1968 May UFOs* AIR 20/11897 1968 June UFOs* AIR 20/11898 1968 July UFOs* AIR 20/11899 1968 August UFOs* AIR 20/11900 1968 September UFOs* AIR 20/11901 1968 October UFOs* AIR 20/11902 1968 November UFOs* AIR 20/12055 1969 January UFOs* AIR 20/12056 1969 February UFOs* AIR 20/12057 1969 March UFOs* AIR 20/12058 1969 April UFOs* AIR 20/12059 1969 May UFOs* AIR 20/12060 1969 June UFOs* AIR 20/12061 1969 July UFOs* AIR 20/12062 1969 August UFOs* AIR 20/12063 1969 September UFOs* AIR 20/12064 1969 October UFOs* AIR 20/12065 1969 November UFOs* AIR 20/12066 1969 December UFOs* AIR 20/12067 1970 January UFOs* AIR 20/12297 1970 February UFOs* AIR 20/12298 1970 March UFOs* AIR 20/12299 1970 April UFOs* AIR 20/12300 1970 May UFOs* AIR 20/12301 1970 June UFOs* AIR 20/12302 1970 July UFOs* AIR 20/12303 1970 August UFOs* AIR 20/12304 1970 September UFOs* AIR 20/12305 1970 October UFOs* AIR 20/12306 1970 November UFOs* * =3D Thirty year closure rule applies. ___________________________________ Written Answers - 19 October 1998 - Airspace: Definition Lord Hill-Norton asked her Majesty=92s Government: Whether they recognise any definitions of the terms of =93airspace=94, =93outer space=94, =93deep space=94 and =93interstellar space=94; whether they will detail such definitions; and whether these are the same definitions as used by the United States Government. [HL3311} The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Lord Sainsbury of Turville): HMG recognise and use the tern =93airspace=94. The principal of airspace sovereignty is defined in the Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation (1944), which states that a country has complete and exclusive sovereignty over the airspace above its territory, including its territorial sea. This airspace starts immediately above the surface of the earth. There is no internationally agreed definition of where =93outer space=94 starts. The most commonly used boundary between airspace and outer space is functional. This means, for instance, that the launching of satellites or other space objects is deemed to be an =93outer space=94 activity and that the flight of aircraft is considered to be an activity in airspace. The use of =93outer space=94 is governed by the United Nations Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and other Celestial Bodies (known as the Outer Space Treaty, (1967) which covers all activity beyond sovereign airspace. Both the UK and the US have ratified the Outer Space Treaty and UK legislation regulating such activity (the Outer Space Act 1986) is based on its principles. =93Deep space=94 and =93interstellar space=94 are terms sometimes used by space scientists and astronomers. =93Deep space=94 is a phrase often used to describe space missions to other planets, beyond t he combined gravitational field of the earth and moon. =93Interstellar space=94 is not commonly used but could, for example, denote the space between stars within a galaxy. _____________________________________________________________________ Written Answers - 19 October 1998 - Unidentified Flying Objects Lord Hill-Norton: asked Her Majesty=92s Government: Further to the Written Answer by the Lord Gilbert on 3 September (WA 60), whether airports, observatories, RAF bases and police stations are still required to forward details of any report they receive of an unidentified flying object to the Ministry of Defence, or whether such action is now only discretionary, following the April 1997 review of procedures. [HL3313] The Minister of State, Minister of Defence (Lord Gilbert): There is no requirement for anyone to submit =91UFO=92 sighting reports to the MOD, other than for military air defence purposes. However, any reports sent to the department will be given the attention they deserve, commensurate with the quality of information provided. ___________________________________________________ Written Answers - 20 October 1998 - RAF Feltwell Deep Space Tracking Facility Lord Hill-Norton: asked Her Majesty=92s Government: Whether the deep space tracking facility at RAF Feltwell has a role in tracking or searching for satellites, space debris, ballistic missiles and space probes. [HL3312] Lord Gilbert: RAF Feltwell is responsible for searching for man-made objects in deep space and as such does have a role in searching for tracking satellites, space debris and space probes. However, it has no role in ballistic missile detection and tracking. _________________________________________________ Written Answers - 20 October 1998 - MoD Answering Machine Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty=92s Government: Whether they will ensure that the answering machine which the Ministry of Defence uses both to explain its policy on unidentified flying objects and to provide a facility for the public to report sightings is turned on at all times and not switched off outside working hours. [HL3407] The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Gilbert): Yes. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Permission to distribute this text providing the authors and publication are credited. Photographs may be copyright and cannot be used without consent. =A9 Hot Gossip UK 1998 www.hotgossip.co.uk The above text is taken from "The Unexplained" section Georgina Bruni: Editor-chief Hot Gossip UK Magazine. Published by Camelot International Ltd. E-mail: georgina@easynet.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 2 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:29:22 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 21:40:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Date: 31 October 1998 00:27 >From: Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug <KONAWS@statoil.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:47:38 +0100 >Subject: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Hi List, >In the following I will present a review of the George Adamski >'Scout Ship' UFO photo and film from 1952, and in this >connection I will make a proposal of what the shown object on >the photo actually could be, and the possible origin of this >object. >A reference is made to the following URL: >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/AndyPage/adamski.htm >where the following is cut from the URL text: <snip> Yes, The 'Haunebu' myth is perhaps the worst nonsense within Ufology. Oh yes, the Germans had primitive saucers that utilized an early (the first in fact) version of a radial flow engine designed by Habermohl who subsequently fell into Soviet hands and was transported with many of his fellow scientists to facilities in the USSR. The "Vril" and "Haunebu" lie is based upon entirely fake documents often re-produced on Nazi UFO docudramas which talk about Nazi/ET/Occult links. It seems that a rational position, based upon a technological investigation, is impossible within Ufology whereby either we are expected to believe the ravings of idiots re the ETH or the ravings of right-wing loonies and their fellow travellers via the "Secret Nazi Technology" adherents. Both positions are based on fantasy not fact and as I never cease to point out the "V" designation stood for "Versuchs" which means experimental in German. The V7 was tested at Prague in early 1945 (almost certainly not Feb 14th and was seen by several witnesses). The existence of Dr. Richard Miethe in the USA after the War and his transportation via 'Paperclip' has been confirmed both by private sources and by former Secretary to the US Air Force Dr. Alexander Flax. Miethe did a great deal of design work for AV Roe Ltd. up in Canada although this was really a diversion from the centres of RDTE at Holloman AFB and Papoose Lake. Forget Adamski - it's all lies - probably sponsored by spookdom..... If you need more sensible information please email me; Tim Matthews
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 2 Help! Lost Links! From: Brian Douglas <bdouglas@riskers.org> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:35:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 21:44:49 -0500 Subject: Help! Lost Links! Recently, RISKERS lost all of it's links page. We are unsure how this happened, but the files simply vanished. The new LINKS page is up, and I encourage EVERYONE to re-add their link now. I made it a FFA links page, so the link is active immediately. Sorry for the inconvenience, again, not sure what happened. Go to http://www.riskers.org and click on the LINKS section. Add any links you can think of, plus your own. Thanks all! Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 2 Re: Music and UFOs From: Lauren Edwards <laurenedwards@email.msn.com> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 07:45:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 21:49:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Music and UFOs Its not my intention to upset the apple cart by getting slightly off topic, but I was wondering if ALL artistic left brained people wouldnt be more prone to experience such things as sightings? Although I love music, and did play guitar for awhile... I am an artist and have had several "experiences" with the unexplainable in my lifetime. Lauren laurenedwards@msn.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 2 November issue Australian UFO Reports & Experiences From: Robert Frola <ufologist@powerup.com.au> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 10:19:06 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 22:21:58 -0500 Subject: November issue Australian UFO Reports & Experiences Australian UFO Reports And Experiences 1998 Issue Eight October Compiled by Robert Frola UFO Investigation Centre Queensland PO Box 805 Springwood QLD 4127 ________________________________________________________________ UPDATE: King Island, Tasmania UFO Flap Keith Roberts, Paul Jackson TUFOIC Our Conclusions - pending further investigation: What they are not: Flares - They do not last 10 - 15 minutes. Astronomical objects - Many of the objects were seen below and in front of heavy clouds - this rules out totally any astronomical explanation. Auroras - Many of the observations were in the North and Northeast sky, Aurora Australis is mainly seen in the Southern sky - In the direction of the South magnetic Pole. Auroras are not seen under totally overcast weather conditions. The only day that an Aurora may have been a possibility, as the K index showed higher than normal readings, was Friday 25th - yet all of the reports on that day were in the North and Western sky. (The above suggestions were put forward by experts in the local press) Explanation: Based on the following evidence: The reports are consistent with the orange Garbage bag hoax/Prank seen in Hobart, Southern Victoria and parts of NSW about 2 years ago. Some of which were later found on the ground, and in at least one instance that I am aware of in Victoria, was responsible for a scrub fire. They just float gently along in the same direction as the prevailing winds. They were not seen on the Monday or Tuesday - When there were very strong winds (Making it virtually impossible to fly anything - Man-made?). They were all seen in the same general area - North & Northeast of Currie, and probably originated from somewhere between the Racecourse and the Airport. There are around 50 children home on school holidays from Victoria. The events have all taken place after dark, yet not late at night when most would be expected to be at home. In the judgement of the investigation team, The lights/Objects reported on King Island are a prank and/or hoax and are believed to be Orange/red coloured plastic Garbage bags being used as hot air balloons with tin cans attached below containing a flammable substance (on past experience - Firelighters). We suspect that, as in the past, some of these balloons will be found, but due to the wind and the size of the island, most are likely to have come down out to sea. Further investigation is in progress. Media Response Stig Agermose E-mail: Error! Bookmark not defined. Source: Australian News Network King Island UFO Investigation Turned Down Skeptic Rundle scoffs at UFOs By MATTHEW ROGERS 7th October 1998 OPPOSITION Leader Tony Rundle says the mysterious King Island UFO sightings are about as credible as Tasmanian Tiger sightings. Mr. Rundle backed Premier Jim Bacon's disinterest in the island's unexplained after-dark sensations yesterday, despite a groundswell of outrage among alienated residents. And King Island Mayor Vernon Philby has spurned his UFO-watching Island folk, saying their mysterious sightings do not warrant an official Government probe. Mr. Rundle bravely risked political fall-out over the sightings, by voters in his own electorate, and revealed himself as a UFO skeptic. "I haven't actually seen one. It's a bit like the thylacine; people say they're there but there hasn't been a sighting that I believe is all that credible," he said. "I haven't seen a UFO myself and I don't expect to." Mayor Philby said he did not want a team of public servants running around the island trying to spot the UFO and government resources could be used on more pressing issues facing King Islanders. "To be honest, I think the State Government has more on its plate and I'd be more inclined to ask for help on other issues," Mayor Philby said, adding that unlike hundreds of other islanders, he had not seen the UFO. Mr. Rundle strayed further into the bizarre Bass Strait UFO minefield, saying King Island was more at risk of a takeover by Victoria than visitors from outer space. "King Islanders are very reliable people. If they say they've seen flying saucers, I'm sure they have," he said. "I think Mr. Bacon has more on his plate than UFOs and so I would agree with him on that. "I don't know if there is a takeover imminent for King Island apart from the fact that at one stage, Mr. Kennett expressed interest in it. "He said he likes the cheese very much when I was talking to him and if Tasmania didn't want it, he'd get it just for the high possibility of getting the cheese factory." Conclusion Paul Jackson TUFOIC On a Radio interview this afternoon (7/10/98 - ABC local radio) I did make the comment that a Small government grant would allow us to send an investigation team there for a week. I have had not response from the government as of this writing - Snigger!. REPORTS: 08.01.98 Burnie, TAS 0440hrs (CE1) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Two witnesses see elongated shape, red on top and green below. Visible in NE sky until obscured by cloud. 18.01.98 Tunnack, TAS 0330hrs (NL) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Two white lights move down then level off towards the south, one light changes to flashing red. Lights well separated. 25.01.98 Tunnack, TAS 0130hrs (NL) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Two white lights travelling south, level out and one light starts flashing red. Lights well spaced and not on one object. 08.02.98 Bell Bay, TAS 0945hrs (CE1) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Five witnesses� report white cigar object with smaller objects moving around it. Small objects disappear and cigar goes off to south. 10.05.98 Bellerive, TAS 0200hrs (NL) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) A stationary bright white light seen to SE, then it moves off to the west and goes behind high cloud. 16.05.98 New Norfolk, TAS 1915hrs (CE1) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Witness sees flash of light from red light surrounded by circle of blue lights low to west. A red light appears at low level in the garden, moves to within 10m before turning off. 17.05.98 Lauderdale, TAS 2030hrs (NL) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Bright light low to east with red/white/blue colours. Rises up to stop in sky alongside a prominent star before blinking off. 18.05.98 Black Hills, TAS 2030hrs (NL) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) On three occasions two witnesses see an oval light in the northern sky, it looks to have a beam pointing towards the ground. It moves quickly away. 21.05.98 Kingston, TAS 1745hrs (NL) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Two separate reports of a large pink/white light low to the west and moving away to the northwest. No air traffic in the area at the time. 28.05.98 Mt Lloyd, TAS 2007hrs (NL) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Two witnesses see a bright light low to the southwest. It looks to move around over the hills, then small lights seen darting around the larger light. 31.05.98 Collinsvale, TAS 0110hrs (NL) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Witness notices flashes of light outside. Sees a series of huge square and triangular areas of light in front of Big Rocky hill. Lights go on/off for 2 minutes. 05.06.98 Tunbridge, TAS 0230hrs (CE1) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Two travelers notice a rotating beam, of light in the clouds on or just above hills to SE. The beams rotate every 20-30 seconds. 08.06.98 Devonport, TAS 2205hrs (NL) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Two men leaving a house see a white light passing across to the NW. A video on night vision shows two lights. One light pulses and moves below and away from the first light. The lights recede to the northwest in differing configurations. 19.06.98 Granton, TAS 1920hrs (CE1) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Motorist reports a bright white light coming down off the hills west of the Lyell Highway. It hovers over the Derwent and looks round with 3 red portholes, and flashing blue, red, and orange lights. 20.06.98 Granton, TAS 1930hrs (CE1) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Motorist travelling north on highway says a row of 4 big red lights with 3 smaller lights appeared behind the vehicle. Some minutes later they disappeared after rounding a curve. 29.06.98 Launceston, TAS 1420hrs (DO) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) A shiny silver cigar is seen in a clear blue sky. The two witnesses say it just disappeared in a second. Launceston Airport had no air traffic in the area. 23.07.98 Granton, TAS 2030hrs (CE1) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) An ill-defined dome-shape with flickering blue/red/white lights is reported by a motorist. The object, taken at first for a helicopter, was stationary out over the Derwent River. 24.07.98 Granton, TAS 2230hrs (NL) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) A motorist sees red/yellow lights in front of the Dromedary Hills. The steady lights look to move up and down on the hill. The motorist thought it could be a helicopter and stopped for a couple of minutes before driving on. 08.08.98 Bell Bay, TAS 1715hrs (DO) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre) Two workers see a silver shape with an irregular flashing light. The shape is darting about over Mt. George before it dives down behind the hills. 24.09.98 King Island, TAS 1915hrs (CE1) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Witness was leaving home to go to Currie. From several kms north of town, on West Side of Main Rd just beyond the Racecourse. Getting into car when a bright red light caught her eye, it was low to the east and seemed to be gaining elevation from behind the trees in that direction. At this stage she noticed a shimmer or sparkle beneath the light. It was about 1/4 to 1/2 moon sized and a flatish oval type shape. It looked to pass fairly close to the witness in level flight to the north. It was silent and moved slowly, almost like floating. The witness had time to get out of the car and watch it as it went away NW being obscured by trees in that direction. It was in view for 7-8 minutes. Ref No.TA98123 24.09.98 King Island, TAS (nr Hospital Hill) 1918hrs (CE1) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Witness Lives just north of Hill. Had gone out to collect some wood, noticed a red ball almost 1/2 moon size seemingly coming straight at him from the SE. It was passing just to the north at a 50-60deg elevation. Tried to estimate its height at 500ft, but now feels it was higher. During observation about 4-5 times it seemed to have flames coming off the top right side, they were 1/3 size of the object itself. Silent, he thought it was a plane on fire, went and rang local Police. Came back out and it was still there moving away into the NW. It was getting smaller now and looked to dip a bit before being obscured by trees in that direction. Must have been in view well over 5 minutes. Wind. 5 knots Southerly. 25.09.98 King Island, TAS 1930-2000hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Witness saw an orange/pink light stationary to the N/NE. Then it seemed to gain elevation and start moving to the SW. It looked to gather speed and disappeared into the SW sky. Visible for 6-8 minutes. Ref No.TA98124 25.09.98 King Island, TAS 2000-2030hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Witness having dinner at Hotel, she glanced out the window and noticed a bright red light out over the sea. It was about 45deg elevation and traveling in level path towards the south. Pointed it out to others. It was visible for nearly 2 minutes. 25.09.98 King Island, TAS (nr Hospital Hill) 2015hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Two boys walking up from the town. They saw out to the west a bright, large, orange light seemingly over the sea. It was moving along the coast towards the south. At one stage they noticed what looked like a whitish thing drop down from the light. The thing fell down and disappeared. It went away to the south and was in view some 5 minutes. Wind. Northeast 10 knots. 26.09.98 King Island, TAS 1900-1915hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Witnesses live just north of the town. The wife had noticed a red light in the northeast, did not take much notice at first. An aircraft came in to land and take off at once from the Airport she went to have a look (probably a RAAF Orion). She then called him out as the light was still there. He brought out the binoculars. He could see a bright orange/red round light which had a glow around it. It was 2 times Jupiter sized to the naked eye. It was stationary in the northeast sky below the overcast sky. After some 10-15 minutes it started to move horizontally away towards the NNE of the island. It moved slowly, but after 2-3 minutes, had been obscured by the cloud. The time was now 7.20-7.30pm. Ref No.TA98125 26.09.98 King Island, TAS (Currie) 1910hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Witness had gone to a dinner in Currie. Went outside for a cigarette. It was dull and cloudy, no stars. Noticed a bright red ball of light below the clouds in the N sky towards the Towers by the road north of the town. It did not appear to be moving. Then it went away towards the east, but it stopped briefly a couple of times as it moved on more towards the northeast. About 1/4 moon sized but bright. It faded into the distance after some 6/7 minutes. 26.09.98 King Island, TAS 2000hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Witness was at a Birthday party. Somebody noticed an orange/pink light in the northeast. It was there for some 6/7 minutes before it looked to gain elevation and disappear. It was overcast at the time and there had been some drizzle. Wind. SW at 5 knots, .04m of rain between 7-8pm. 27.09.98 King Island, TAS 1930hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Witness saw a pink /orange light appeared out of the east. It was at a high elevation and seemed to be moving fast. Went across the sky beneath the moon and away to the west out over the sea. In view for 2-3 minutes. Called friend to have a look. Ref No.TA98126 27.09.98 King Island, TAS 1930-1940hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Friend phoned - Witness went out and saw a light that looked to be yellow with a red rim. It was moving at a steady speed from the northwest towards the southeast. It passed just to his north. It was a large light, much bigger than a star. It seemed to suddenly shoot a flame or something from the back. It increased speed and went out of sight to the southeast. Visible 3 minutes. 27.09.98 King Island, TAS 1945hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Witness had just been on telephone and decided to have a look for the light again. Went outside and there it was. A very bright red/orange light in the northern sky. It was moving from northwest to southeast. It was 2 x Jupiter in size. Managed to get a look with binoculars, there seemed to be a red flame at the rear. It was moving faster than earlier nights and was gone in 3-4 minutes. Met a local Airport employee just after sighting, he had seen the same light. They rang Tullarmarine Control who advised there were no aircraft in the area. 27.09.98 King Island, TAS 1945hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Witness at Airport when noticed an orange light moving fast on a north to south track, it seemed high up and going south. Checked for cloud cover at time, at 6/7000ft and wind 60deg 10/20knts. 27.09.98 King Island, TAS 1940-1952hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) On outside deck when noticed a light crossing the sky. There was an orange light and glow some distance away towards the Racecourse direction. It was moving across the sky at a 35-40deg elevation. It passed along the coast and was moving south down the coast. The light was in the west and moved well to the south and faded into the distance. Wind. ENE wind at 10 knots. 30.09.98 King Island, TAS 2017hrs (CE1) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Visiting friend's house opposite the Racecourse. Went out to feed dog. Turned and looked up and saw this large cone object approaching out of the northeast. (Like inverted ice-cream cone). It was silent and traveling almost directly overhead. Looked about 1/2 moon size and seemed to have shafts of orange light from all around it. It was traveling towards the SW but it did a long boomerang shaped turn and moved away to the SE. Looked to travel off quickly. It was in view 7-8 minutes. The weather was fine with low cloud and a few stars. Called for friend to come and have a look. Ref No.TA98129 30.09.98 King Island, TAS 2015hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Was at the Airport with several other people. They all saw a bright orange light to the south. It was traveling away to the SE and seemed to fade or flicker a few times before it disappeared at a 45deg elevation. Maybe just got to far away to view. Visible for about 2 minutes. 30.09.98 King Island, TAS 2020hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Call from friend. Went outside and saw at once almost overhead a conical red glow or light. It was moving away to the east as he watched for some 4 minutes. Managed to have a look with binoculars. It seemed to have a white leading edge and flames or red glow trailing behind. Changed colors as moved further away, went from red to orange, until before faded out it turned to white and almost looked like a star. Seemed to fade into distance. 30.09.98 King Island, TAS (nr Currie) 2020hrs (NL) (U/I) (Source: Keith Roberts & Paul Jackson, Tasmanian UFO Investigation Centre & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 02.10.98) Witness had a call from a friend that he had spotted the orange light whilst driving north from Currie. Witness went out and at once noted the light coming from the northwest. Had a look with binoculars but it was just a big red light. The light passed to the west of his residence and looked to be moving off SW. Jumped into car and tried to follow the light, it seemed to be moving quicker and going higher. At one point something fell from the light. The light was now south of the Grassy Road and moving into distance. He managed to keep it in sight for some 3 kms until it faded into distance or went out. Last seen near location of Hydro Station. Wind. Police reported wind at Airport was NE, although it was more NW in Currie. Light breeze at ground level although clouds were moving quicker. 12.10.98 Nowra, NSW 2300-2330hrs (NL) (Source: Brad Mildern & Diane Harrison, e-mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au. The Keith Basterfield Network 13.10.98) Fifteen objects in changing formations seen south-southwest of Nowra. All heading south at first, range from 5km going away to 15-20km, then turning and hovering and performing "ballet like" maneuvers. Total observed time around 30 minutes from 11pm to 11.30. Objects seen through binoculars were "bell shaped with steady light on top and fluctuating coloured lights around the bottom rim. All seemed to be translucent". Sources for this issue: The Keith Basterfield E-mail Network, tkbnetw@fan.net.au Brad Mildern, bradm@shoal.net.au TUFOIC, PO Box 6174, South Hobart, TAS 7004 ________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 2 'Ufology: The Next World Religion'? From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 09:53:06 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 22:47:39 -0500 Subject: 'Ufology: The Next World Religion'? [List only] Source: Insight Magazine, http://www.insightmag.com/articles/story3.html The UFO part starts about half-way down. Stig ******* Published in Washington, D.C.. . . . Vol. 14, No. 43 -- November 23, 1998 . . . . www.insightmag.com Prophets of the Third Millennium By Gayle M.B. Hanson *** High technology isn't the only thing that the year 2000 has affected. Many are betting celestial events and religious phenomena will mark the turn of the century. If you're a betting kind of fellow with a few dollars to burn, you might consider this longshot: British betting shops William Hill and Ladbrokes currently are offering a chance to clean up big time at the stroke of midnight, Dec. 31, 1999. All they have to do is beat the 10,000-to-1 odds being offered by the legal bookies that night won't turn to day as the clocks tick into the year 2000. If that payoff doesn't sound grand enough and money truly is no object, the estimable English oddsmakers are offering million-to-1 odds that the world won't end before midnight, Dec. 31, 1999. Trouble is, it would take more than a 250-pound mook named Vinnie to collect that wager. A better bet might be the 50-to-1 odds Ladbrokes is willing to offer that the United Nations will confirm the existence of alien life in the year 2000. As the extraterrestrial tourist from the 1950s science-fiction classic, The Day the Earth Stood Still, might say: "Klatuu barada nikto!" Ah, the millennium. With fewer than 500 days until clocks tick into the year 2000, the world is awash in speculation. From the biblical prophecies of the rapture to the Hopi legends and UFOlogy of the New Age, millions around the world are being swept up in a global wave of intrigue about what awaits us in the third millennium. Trouble is, even as the countdown continues there seems to be a little problem about settling the date when the millennium will occur. "There's a lot of confusion about when the millennium is going to actually begin," says astrologer T. Chase, who plans to be somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle when the clocks tick over. "Some people think it is going to begin midnight, Dec. 31, 1999; others expect it the following year. So does anybody really have the date down with certainty? Experts from the Center for Millennial Studies, or CMS, at Boston University say the new millennium officially will not begin until midnight on Dec. 25, 2000, which could make things particularly interesting for any flying reindeer looking for a solid place to land. In backing up their predictions the folks at CMS cite no less an authority than Denis the Diminutive, a.k.a. Dionysus Exiguous, who calculated the date way back in 525 A.D. The little guy received some big support for his predictions during the eighth century when both St. Bede in England and the Carolingians in continental Europe backed up his millennial claim date. Conformity of calculations was moving along pretty well until the last 200 years when, as the culture increasingly has become secularized, according to the CMS, there has been a shift to the use of something scholars refer to as the "common era," or C.E. According to this system, the millennium will begin Dec. 31, 2000, at midnight. So if you're planning on partying like it's 1999, you might want to consider keeping your party hat on for the entire year. This is not to say that everyone is planning on having a swell time. For some religious groups the millennium holds portents of what many believe may be the second coming of Christ and the end of the world as we know it. Belief that the millennium has deep religious significance transcends many of the world's great faiths including Judaism, Christianity and Islam. But, say some, this ain't the first time we've gone around the Doomsday track. "For a long time it was believed that the year 1000 passed like any other year," says Richard Landes, a medieval scholar who founded the CMS in 1992. "It was thought that there weren't end-time beliefs, but more and more researchers are coming to understand that in fact there was a lot of apocalyptic activity that began around the year 1000 and lasted through 1033." Among the occurrences of the time were large-scale pilgrimages to Jerusalem, apocalyptic literature and the interpretation of earthquakes and famine as indicators that the end of the world was at hand. In the year 996 A.D., Abbo of Fleury recollects, "Concerning the end of the world, as a youth I heard a sermon in a church in Paris that as soon as the number of 1000 years should come, and not long after, the Last Judgment would follow." While apocalyptic believers were disappointed when their predictions proved premature, according to Landes it is typical for religious believers to alter their beliefs to take into account the failure of scripted scenarios. "We talk about cognitive dissonance that occurs when the faith-based expectations of a believer don't happen. They just reorient their faith in a low-key way," he says. So even if the year 2000 should pass without the Judgment Day occurring, Landes assures Insight there is no denying that such beliefs will have a strong impact on our culture for several decades into the next century. "One of the things we hope to do is have a really well-organized operation so that we can be in place to interview individuals after the millennium occurs," says Landes. Among the more interesting phenomena that Landes and his colleagues at Boston University are studying is the growing intersection between UFOlogy and millennialism. A study performed two years ago showed that approximately 60 percent of Americans believe in intelligent extraterrestrial life. This belief, coupled with Judeo-Christian cultural background, has made for some interesting analyses of the future. These range from the pessimistic fears of the Watchers, whose World Wide Web site lays out claims of a link between Satan and life on Mars, to the benevolent prophecies of the Raelians, who believe mankind was created by the Elohim, who slowly are revealing their hand to us even as they prepare to return to save us from ourselves. "Most people are very fond of the UFO phenomenon, but when you start telling them that they are the result of the creation by alien beings, these are staggering implications," explains Michel Beluet, the director of UFOland, the Raelian religion's alien theme park outside of Montreal. "When Rael received his prophecies the first thing he asked was, 'Are you going to give me anything to substantiate our claim?' They said, 'No.'" However, that didn't stop Rael from launching the UFO-based religious group that now claims about 40,000 members globally. Their belief system, which was outlined by Rael, a former journalist and sometime Formula One auto racer during the 1970s, includes a prophecy that when the Elohim return they will take a minimum of 144,000 away from the Earth and then return them to repopulate civilization after a cataclysm. That the Raelian prophecy is similar to a number of other prophecies among the world's religious groups is explained by Beluet as a remnant of the teachings left behind by our alien creators. Such themes, says Philip Lamy, a cultural anthropologist at Castleton College in Vermont, are common throughout many contemporary UFO-based epistemologies. "I really believe that UFOlogy is going to be the next world religion," says the professor, who currently is working on a book supporting such claims. "We live in secular times, and UFOlogy is a religion that even atheists might enjoy. The idea that there are superevolved intelligent beings out there is one that appeals to a lot of people." According to Lamy and others studying the UFO phenomena, most groups which believe that aliens are going to return to Earth as part of the millennium see these extraterrestrials as a force for good. The Raelians, for instance, are said to combine a "love thy neighbor" philosophy with an embrace of cloning technology. After all, claims Beluet, it was the Elohim that created us out of DNA, and with the advent of cloning they are revealing more of their plan for us. The Raelians hope to clone a human being in the not-too-distant future. "I can guarantee that the new millennium will start with the presence of a human clone," Beluet predicts. "This is what I see as the marriage of science fiction and science fact," declares Lamy. "More and more groups are using the advent of technological innovation as proof-perfect that we indeed have been visited by aliens. That and the permeation of our popular culture by the UFO experience has very big ramifications in the millennium." But millennial UFOlogy has its dark side, researchers warn. And certainly that dark side manifested itself in the suicide of the members of the Heaven's Gate cult at the time of the nearest approach to the planet of the comet Hale-Bopp, a celestial event that many in apocalyptic circles viewed as a harbinger of cosmic change. "Our interest in aliens definitely has a pattern throughout history," claims Lamy. "At various times we see the aliens as beneficent, and at other times they are viewed as being hostile. Certainly E.T. and Close Encounters of the Third Kind portrayed the visitors as friendly. Independence Day and Mars Attacks! did not. Perhaps the most important fusion of those two ideas in popular culture is represented in the television program Star Trek in which alien life forms weren't either good or bad but, like us, a mix of both." Should those casting about find the outer-space ideas of the Raelians a little foreign, they might check out the beliefs of the Atlantans, whose millennial ideology is based upon the idea that the lost city of Atlantis will reemerge from the ocean floor sometime after the clock strikes midnight at the turn of the century. Whether you believe that the millennium holds special religious significance, that UFOs are going to spirit people away by the millions or that the advanced culture of the Atlantans will rise up from the sea, the folks at the Center for Millennial Studies say we all will be touched in some way by millennial thinking. "At around the year 2000 we begin to read events in apocalyptic mode," says Landes. "Much of this stuff is going on below the level of direct consciousness. But we are all going to be affected by it no matter what our beliefs." Copyright =A9 1998 News World Communications, Inc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 2 Re: The Ed Stewart Show From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 09:36:27 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:18:49 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ed Stewart Show >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Ed Stewart Show >From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> >Date: Sat 31 Oct, 1998 12:25 >>From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:47:10 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: The Ed Stewart Show >>The "UFO problem"? >>The only "UFO problem" I can see around here is you, Ed. In the >>final analysis, I'm afraid Jerome Clark is right. You are just a >>mean spirited old fart ("old fart" are my words, not Jerry's). >>As best as I can tell, you have little interest in UFOs beyond >>using the information you collect as bait for some unsuspecting >>soul that you can verbally attack to make yourself feel better. >>Personally, I think you owe Stan and the list an apology for >>such uncivilized behavior. If you can't account for yourself and >>control your actions, then your precious "archives" are as >>questionable in content as [they] are in character. >>I have no use for you. Careful -- Ed can still be used as a good example of how NOT to work and play with others <g>. >>Roger Evans, >>Houston, Texas > >Roger, Roger that! <g> > >Best wishes, Roger Ed's Lament. . . There�s a meanness to Ed Stewart. All his missives mainly sneers. I understand that his pronouncements Are made while sitting on his rear. Jerry asks the questions. Stanton does the math. K-randle may contribute, But Ed Stewart needs a bath. Adherence to Ed Stewart Is to fan dis-info murk. Mean spirited misdirection -- Miss the target - mal-alert. Lehmberg@snowhill.com -- Explore the Alien View! Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ <Updated 12 September> "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 2 Alfred's Odd Ode #278 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@SNOWHILL.COM> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 06:31:03 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:22:07 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #278 Apology to MW #278 (For November 1, 1998) A chance to touch the beauty -- perhaps to brush it with my lips is the august of my passion, and it's that that makes me rich. The fact that I could touch it though it yet evades my grasp is the lesson of your sound defeat, discounting all you gasp. And yes it's made me bitter, as it's changed my stony heart. And yes you can PROVOKE me and I'll tear your soul apart. And YES, I can be charmless when I slap your smirking face; as I see it you�re the problem, frankly -- a discredit to the place. And I wouldn't change a wit nor hair, that you _would_ change on me. I'd not restrict your freedoms thinking what you would, or be. Defending to a sullen death your right to think I stink, it's when I'm made against the law you'd try to make, I think. Then everything is YOUR way -- with Jesus in our schools. The school's rebuilt to prisons, and we live the golden rule. And not the smarmy bromide re the "doing unto others", but it's "he that has the gold then rules", is what you'd be, I gather. . . . For that chance to touch the beauty I'd be blinded by it's light; it just might be the face of God -- I *know* my thinking's right. And sloughing off "you can't do that" from comfy landed ancients, ecstatic for my bitterness, I'll pay that price of patience! For _light_ there is aplenty when I see who has the blame. When I cop to liability who must lose so I can gain. And the LIES that keep it going so we won't find out the truth; that jealous lords make up _stern_ rules, but remain from them, aloof. There's more than Clinton's peepee to the fabric of our lives. There is _more_ that could engage us, and there's less we _should_ despise. The sky's are filled with glowing lights that travel outer space! Some are filled with people, but their provenance -- what's their race? It just may be they're not from here, but we don't look -- they disappear; made ashamed to ask the questions, ridiculed you take suggestion. "No one's going to laugh at me"! -- unlike John Ford, you _would_ be *free*. . . And that's the secret, lacking courage. Right or wrong protecting lineage; dumping on those far from here your toxic waste without a tear. Resent it when you're finally told, the message is then killed/controlled. All your shame then drained from you and splashed on those that cannot choose. The market losing chunks of value? Lost some savings, can't eat cashews? Someone has it, rest assured, it's _stolen_ fair and square, Big Bird. The market burps and loses value _someone_ wins -- they've sold YOU out, though. A secret service selling crack -- to school kids yet to have the knack for knowing when they're sacrificed on Mammon's alter -- price is right! And Ollie North could lie straight faced and earn my rage -- profound distaste that wells up with my righteous bile . . . the thousands that he harmed, defiled . . . he gave the 'right' their ammunition, "welfare cheats" -- they had their mission. Let them all decay -- attrition! Oh, that I could force contrition!! Yet, I will _touch_ this beauty I've discovered in the light! I revel in revealing what the truth brings to this fight. And as _bitter_ as I'm made to feel or as _angry_ as I get, I'm happy that I'm blessed to find what's _seen_ is what I get. So you can call me "woo woo" and pretend I need a net; I'm not the one that's lying to _himself_ , friend; you can bet. I'm not the one regressing to the dankness of my cave. I'm not the one with unshod feet, mere chattel or some slave. I _am_ the one that's had enough! I'll spit right in your eye. Most send me their _protection_, friend; I soar or glide and fly! You rasp I have no humor, or that bitterness derides whatever makes my message give you lesions, welts, or hives. _Some_ read them for a pleasure, _some_ say they ARE of love. _Some_ say they are inspired by example, charmless one. _Some_ say that I have courage, and I write the way it is -- Like Robert Crumb (cartoonist?), but I draw in words I kiss. Some say that they laugh with me, blowing good wine through their nose; some touch and share their own songs or their haiku, or their prose. One said he hopes his kid grows up to have my kind of mind -- dismissed as paranoiac? That dog won't hunt -- it's blind. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Who needs ya' anyway! Well, John needs ya'. I need ya' Ms. Douglass! You still out there? I've got a few more concerned citizens who want to pony up! Restore John Ford! -- Explore the Alien View! Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ <Updated 12 September> "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 2 Wanted - FT Sightings Reports From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 04:56:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:26:16 -0500 Subject: Wanted - FT Sightings Reports Hi All As we have heard recently Project FTs Ron West has passed away. Part of Rons work was to collate the many FT sightings reports of which he had over 30 contributing groups throughout the UK. In order to continue Rons work we need to maintain the discipline of passing on those valued sightings details from around the UK and also mainland Europe. Therefore, we request that any groups that have FT sightings details please contact either myself or Victor Kean. Those groups contributing reports will of course receive regular updates of the collated sightings and an annual report. To view the information that has been collated to the end of 1997 you can visit Project FT's website at:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tspurrier/tritest.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 2 Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 08:28:05 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:32:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:42:00 -0400 >>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:59:41 -0800 >>From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >>>>I would of thought you would have removed MJ-12 hoax from your >>>>lecture material after the online debate we had on this mailing >>>>list towards the end of 1996. >>My claims were independently supportable and verifiable over the >>entire spectrum of the MJ-12 saga. As I was able to show, most >>of the MJ-12 hoax has now been a matter of record for almost a >>decade and uncovered by the research of members in the UFO >>community. >>Will the real Stanton Friedman please stand up? Your fans are >>demanding that you prove me wrong. They are counting on you! >Sorry, Ed. I believe my many fans are counting on me to spend my >time more productively than engaging in mud slinging with you. I can't blame you for not wishing to defend the MJ-12 hoax in an open forum now that you have discovered that your intellectual bullyism does not further your alleged claims in such a forum. There just are too many people online that recognize logical fallacies and know better. I gather in the last two years you have been unable to strengthen any of your pseudo-arguments or discovered any new data that would stand up to critical analysis. So, maybe you should have told your Australian audiences on your last tour not only that you would only debate skeptics when off tour, but for that matter, you would not engage them on an open forum either. I guess I'll see you on tour preaching to the choir. I'll be one of the apparent faithfull in one of the first six roles lipsynching your sound bytes with the rest of the audience. Ed Stewart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart ufoindex@jps.net|So Man, who here seems principal alone, There Is Something |Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Going On! ,>'?'<, |Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) |'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 2 Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 08:35:55 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:37:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:07:25 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >Point of information: >Has anyone besides myself noticed that, although many are >excellent, the topics being discussed in this thread series >haven't had the word "Oberg" in it for at least 30 or more >posts? Then, his name appeared once and disappeared. I think >there may be over 60 postings at latest count. Yup, I wanted to change the thread to Ron Westrum's "The Promise of Ufology" after the article submission by Jerome Clark and submitted my response at that time with the 'promise of ufology' title, but it was apparently reverted back to the old title by EBK. I have not attempted to change the title since. Ed Stewart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart ufoindex@jps.net|So Man, who here seems principal alone, There Is Something |Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Going On! ,>'?'<, |Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) |'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 2 Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 17:39:33 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:41:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: , 31 Oct 1998 10:42:00 -0400 >>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:59:41 -0800 >>From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking <snip> >>Will the real Stanton Friedman please stand up? Your fans are >>demanding that you prove me wrong. They are counting on you! >>Ed Stewart >Sorry, Ed. I believe my many fans are counting on me to spend my >time more productively than engaging in mud slinging with you. > >Stan Friedman Stan, Just wanted to congratulate you on this reaction, Ed's just not worth the effort of degrading yourself :) Only wished Jerry would've thought of that WEEKS ago ;-) - no offense Jerry... Best wishes from Holland, Andy Denne
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 2 Re: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:23:42 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:47:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:42:00 -0400 >>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:59:41 -0800 >>From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >>>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:54:40 -0400 >>>>Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:59:09 -0800 >>>>From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >>>>I would of thought you would have removed MJ-12 hoax from your >>>>lecture material after the online debate we had on this mailing >>>>list towards the end of 1996. >>>I have certainly not accepted the strange notion that the main >>>MJ-12 documents are a hoax for reasons I have noted in several >>>papers and in 'TOP SECRET/MAJIC', despite Ed's strange claim, >>>among others, that they must be because they had no TS Control >>>numbers. A position he maintained even after I pointed out that >>>my 108 page 'Final Report on Operation Majestic 12' included >>>five previously TS documents without control numbers and that >>>the Archivist at the Eisenhower Library pointed out that control >>>numbers were not used all the time. >>My claims were independently supportable and verifiable over the >>entire spectrum of the MJ-12 saga. As I was able to show, most >>of the MJ-12 hoax has now been a matter of record for almost a >>decade and uncovered by the research of members in the UFO >>community. We can relive the entire argument if so desire. It is >>mostly still archived on this mailing list, at least the >>portions of the threads after Dec 11, 1996 "MJ-12 and Area 51". >>It involved quite a few people including Kevin Randle, Peter >>Brookesmith, Dennis Stacy, Jan Aldrich, yourself and me, plus >>many others. It started before the list began archiving messages >>and went to the point where you had enough and left. We covered >>every major claim of yours that you postulated in TOP >>SECRET/MAJIC and showed your arguments to be either flawed or >>downright false. We also showed the pitifull flaws in the SOM >>Manual. You in turn did not and could not provide any evidence >>that supported your contentions. ><snip> >>Will the real Stanton Friedman please stand up? Your fans are >>demanding that you prove me wrong. They are counting on you! >>Ed Stewart >Sorry, Ed. I believe my many fans are counting on me to spend my >time more productively than engaging in mud slinging with you. > >Stan Friedman At times it is wiser to remain silent and be considered a fool than speak and remove all doubt. --George Bernard Shaw Jim Mortellaro wishes he said that!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Information/History For A 7th Grade Science Report From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 18:05:58 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 00:03:18 -0500 Subject: Information/History For A 7th Grade Science Report Dear Errol and List Members, If anyone can help Sarah will they please send the info direct to the address given please. Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 18:34:53 +0100 To: 0680521322-0001@t-online.de, webmaster@ufoinfo.com, Subject: UFO information / history for a 7th grade science report. From: paulmicka@t-online.de (Paul Micka) Hello, My name is Sarah Meyer and I am doing a school report about UFO's. I have visited several internet links and home pages this afternoon and have found some information, but not exactly what I was looking for. I want to center my report on the 50's and 60's, history of UFO's, Roswell, Area 51, cover-ups and other related incidents, autopsies etc. I've found tons of lists about sightings etc, but can't use them very much. If any of you have any information that you would be willing to share with me to help me with my report I would be most grateful if you would send it to my dad's email address (mailto: paulmicka@t-online.de). Thanks a million ( in advance ! ) Sarah Meyer Feichten, Germany ================= John Hayes jhayes@cableinet.co.uk webmaster@ufoinfo.com UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/ UFOICQ Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:- http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/ Search for other documents from or mentioning: 0680521322-0001 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 BWW Media Alert 19981101 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:32:43 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 00:04:28 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 19981101 Bufo Calvin P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo calvin<;/a> <A HREF="surprise link to Amazon.com">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=048 6230945/bufosweirdworldA/<;/a> ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it). November 1, 1998 No surprise, but quite a bit slower the week after Halloween. I'm quoted quite a bit in the November issue of FATE magazine( <A HREF="http://www.fatemag.com/">FATE</A>). The author, Marcia Jedd, and I had a few phone conversations in relationship to her article WHEN GHOSTS ATTACK. We also did some by e-mail, which I tend to prefer. It's very flattering to be in their along with such authorities as Loyd Auerbach and Brad Steiger. The article does overstate my belief in the statements I'm making: as regular readers know, I try not to come to conclusions about reported phenomena. For example, I may be giving her a rundown on a popular theory, couching it with terms like "theoretically", "allegedly", and "reportedly", and all that gets stripped. I'd happily do something with her again, but it's just one of the dangers of print. I like doing live radio the best: you've got the best opportunity to clarifly, if necessary. Newspapers give you the worst shot to be presented the way you want: magazines generally have fact-checkers, but newspapers (on these topics, anyway) don't have the time. On to the listings: not much outside of the "regularly scheduled programming" except the Bigfoot special on THE LEARNING CHANNEL. Times are generally Pacific. THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL Sunday, November 1, 1:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT SNAKE Sunday, November 1, 1:30 PM, STRANGE BUT TRUE (ghosts in Dover, spontaneous bone regeneration) Wednesday, November 4, 10:00 PM, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?: SPIRITS, ROBBERS, AND THE DEAD (English ghosts, among other things) Thursday, November 5, 2:00 AM, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?: SPIRITS, ROBBERS, AND THE DEAD (English ghosts, among other things) Thursday, November 5, 9:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT SQUID Friday, November 6, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT SQUID Next Saturday, November 7, 2:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: THE PUZZLE OF THE PYRAMIDS Next Saturday, November 7, 2:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: PREHISTORIC PUZZLES THE HISTORY CHANNEL Sunday, November 1, 12:00 AM, HAUNTED HISTORY: SAN FRANCISCO Sunday, November 1, 10:00 AM, HAUNTED HISTORY: NEW ENGLAND Sunday, November 1, 11:00 AM, HAUNTED HISTORY: NEW ORLEANS THE LEARNING CHANNEL Wednesday, November 3, 9:00 PM, BIGFOOT (repeat, I believe from last year, of the one with wildlife photographer John Waters ((not the movie director)) getting out there. As I recall, it featured Henry Franzoni, but don't hold me to it). Thursday, November 4, 12:00 AM, BIGFOOT MTV Monday, November 2, 4:30 PM, ROAD RULES: UFO stories (I don't know if this is really appropriate to the list or not...never seen the show) Wednesday, November 4, 4:30 PM, ROAD RULES: UFO stories Next Monday, November 9, 8:00 PM, ROAD RULES: haunted hotel Next Tuesday, November 10, 4:30 PM, ROAD RULES: haunted hotel THE SCIENCE CHANNEL The new schedule is weird programming for an hour each at 6:00 AM, 2:00 PM, and 10:00 PM. Rotating shows include: INTO THE UNKNOWN, STRANGE BUT TRUE, and ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE. THE SCI-FI CHANNEL Sun, November 1 7:02 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4040: pilot disappearance during UFO report (Valentich?); "doomsday machine" Sun, November 1 11:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4040: pilot disappearance during UFO report (Valentich?); "doomsday machine" Mon, November 2 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #218: Russian UFO Mon, November 2 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #218: Russian UFO Tue, November 3 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4041: alien abduction; poltergeist Tue, November 3 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #219: Pennsylvania UFO; alien abduction; entity attack Tue, November 3 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #219: Pennsylvania UFO; alien abduction; entity attack Wed, November 4 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4042: past lives; psychic spying; 1962 UFO Wed, November 4 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #220: mass abduction; Waco Wed, November 4 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #220: mass abduction; Waco Thu, November 5 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4043; Mantell UFO fatality; psychic detective; ghost Thu, November 5 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #221: Earth changes Fri, November 6 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4044: Peruvian UFOs; religious UFOs; murder prediction; Martian artifacts Fri, November 6 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #222: Washington State Bigfootage Fri, November 6 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #222: Washington State Bigfootage Sun, November 8 7:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4045: Brazilian UFOs; Ohio Bigfoot; exorcism Sun, November 8 11:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4045: Brazilian UFOs; Ohio Bigfoot; exorcism SYNDICATED Friday, November 6 (days and times vary: may even be a repeat of last week), MONTEL WILLIAMS, psychic Sylvia Browne ___________________________ This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t he week before. _____________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 13:33:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 00:10:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:51:51 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Keith Stevens <k.stevens@virgin.net> >Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >>Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:37:39 -0500 >>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >>While I do not doubt that you have some experience in the >>"secret document" area and have trouble believing what several >>credible people have testified to under their own names. >>So what. You just have to get over it. >>You know, I also had trouble believing that the CIA had run >>drugs in Southeast Asia and had hired terrorists to mine the >>harbors of nations we were not at war with. >>But, you know, my "belief" had nothing to do with it because >>these things happened, were testified to by credible people >>under their own names, documented and independently verified. >>Do you know of any nation which has not had its secure documents >>compromised? >>Weren't those classified documents found in Aldrich Ames' home? >>The inside operative is toughest to find as James Angleton knew >>to well. >>How about the voluminous amount of documents transferred by >>Pollard to our embarrassment. >>As to your statement "I find it very hard to believe that anyone >>would admit to having a copy of this particular document". Well >>all of these men - Ruppelt, Keogh and Hynek did go on record >>saying they had read the document and at least transiently had a >>copy of it. >>Wishful thinking won't solve the questions raised. Your dog >>doesn't hunt. >>Gary Keith, You have raised some good points which need to be addressed. >Hi Gary and list >The trouble with using the activities of the CIA as examples is >that you are talking here of mostly established facts.These are >all out in the Public domain.The story fully(?)documented >now.The same goes for Aldrich Ames.In his case he-never-openly >claimed to have any documents in his possession prior to his >arrest. As far as Aldrich Ames - "never openly claimed to have documents in his possession prior to his arrest". Well that is a nonsequitur. I can't quite imagine any traitor intelligence employee making such a claim prior to his arrest either. Nonetheless the arresting agencies, FBI and CIA did claim that he had removed physical, classified documents he had access to and that physical documents were recovered from his home at the time of his arrest. This has been documented in news accounts and books written about this case. The point I am making here is that although there are procedures and legalities regarding the handling of these documents, people can and do violate them. Using established facts as examples doesn't exactly stretch the credibility of the reader. Most people have enough experience from their own lives in understanding the wide range of human behaviours. Are you one would believe that because a rule or law has been established that those are themselves enough to proscribe those behaviours from ever happening? Also let's not forget to note the the 6x10 foot room of documents that our government likes publicize was removed by Pollard. I wonder who was actually assigned the task of making those measurements before this information was offered to a journalist. >No I feel that in this particular case we are not talking about >a substantiated event but an unsubstantiated event. As of yet we >still do not have the Document which would prove the case! All >we have are unsupported claims by various individuals that they >have seen it. >Now I am not saying that they are making false claims,far from >it.The exceptional does sometimes happen.However from my >own,admittedly modest 17 years, Military Service experience,I >find it very hard to believe that a doubtless Top Secret >Document has been down graded to Unclassified status immediately >prior to destruction,and,that-if- a copy of this Unclassified >Document does indeed exit why has it not been shown in public? >To me it makes little sense. You may not have seen my posting which addresses this issue, trying to make sense of information about individuals, documents and procedures which is difficult to understand. I had posted this explanation scenario under a new subject "The Estimate of the Situation - As A Ticking Time Bomb". Here is the relevant explanation from that posting. Based on the information available to me at this time, this makes a lot of sense (to me at least, hey, I posted it!). So let's hear what does and doesn't support this scenario. abstracted from: The Estimate of the Situation - As A Ticking Time Bomb Copyright (C) 1998 Gary Alevy There was a problem with the Estimate of the Situation written by PROJECT SIGN, a problem that may not be at all apparent to civilians, patriotic minded individuals and even those with military experience; the Estimate was an "ordinary" TOP SECRET document. How can a TOP SECRET document be "ordinary"? The answer lies in understanding that military considerations and documents are not really the utmost consideration of those at the top of the pyramid, they are but a means to an end. Even what becomes a military consideration is often defined by others outside the military chain of command. This is not to belittle the role of the military rather it is a realistic recognition the role the military plays in the republican form of government in these United States. Moreover, these kinds of documents are subject to leak and counter-leak within the military itself or confiscation by means of espionage. The creators of the Estimate document took their job seriously, without any baggage due to "outside considerations" of the kind that Alphabet Agencies (intelligence agencies, e.g. FBI, CIA, etc.) and others (politicians, world leaders, religious leaders, etc.) typically are concerned with. That is, ATIC was concerned only with military security, in the here and NOW, and was not creating or "spinning" their document for a boss really near or at the top of the pyramid outside the military, or worried about higher-order political, social, international or even worldwide problems that UFO revelations might present to the government, society or humanity as a whole. The Estimate spoke plain English, a fatal flaw, and "proved" that UFOs were the real deal, of some kind, whether or not they were "interplanetary". The military, by its nature, wants to do something NOW about a problem, and there WAS a problem. There is no doubt, even as early as the time of the Estimate that the UFO problem had become so important that the regular military was not going to be allowed to deal with it anymore. Only the very secretest, personnel and organizations were going to be allowed to do that. "Tippy-top" scientists (scientists of high order with backgrounds in intelligence) like Howard Robertson who had served as General Eisenhower's science advisor at SHAEF, well, they may have been aware of other information and playing another game, along with their tippy-top secret bosses in the Alphabet Agencies and elsewhere. What else can explain what happened in 1953, when a panel (the Robertson Panel, Ruppelt's panel of experts) consisting of the best secret scientists in the inventory (with intelligence and military backgrounds, e.g. Howard Robertson, Louis Alvarez, Samuel Goudsmit, etc.) blew the UFO out of the water and denied it respectability with everyone, the regular military being only one of many. How could the Robertson panel have done this when ostensibly no scientific investigation had been completed? Well it is obvious -- the REAL investigation was by then complete, or nearly so, and no help was required from anyone (including the military) who was not a part of the empire served by the then secret Alphabet Agencies. Now we can see why the Estimate was not made public after its declassification; to do so would have been ruinous to anyone contemplating a career anywhere in the vast caverns of government employment or the outside military, industrial and consultancy organizations that work hand-in-hand with government. One would have to be brain dead not to realize that a "declassify-then-burn" order had to have been applied to a very dangerous document indeed. Indeed, it is fascinating that Ruppelt even mentioned it, even in the diluted way that he did. It makes one wonder who might have been steered onto the Estimate as a result of The Report and whether such "steerage" was one of the effects Ruppelt intended. Remember, Ruppelt later repudiated in 1959, under duress many said, nearly everything he wrote in the original edition of his book which was published in 1956. Then he had a heart attack in 1960, an event that many might have contemplated to their benefit as the years of the Arnold Age unrolled and passed into the history books. --- end of abstract As a brief aside I would also like to point out some little known background about Dr. Howard Robertson, who was appointed the head of the Robertson Panel. During WWII Robertson was head of the Scientific Intelligence Advisory Section under SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Forces) and also served General Eisenhower as a scientific adviser at USFET (United States Forces European Theater) headquarters. He was also chief of the scientific branch of FIAT of the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency and a member of the Alsos Commission. As recently as 1997 Gerald Haines, a historian for the CIA, stated for the record that the scientists on the Robertson Panel were non-military. [Haines, Gerald K. Studies in Intelligence Vol.1 No.1, 1997. CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 (A Die Hard Issue)Langley, Central Intelligence Agency,1997.] Although Haines was unable to state the facts correctly about the background of the chairman of the Robertson Panel, information available in the Encyclopaedia Britannica, Haines now works at the NRO as its historian. To my knowledge it has not yet been revealed who were the individuals who selected Robertson to head the panel. Ruppelt mentions four "scientists" but never named them or the organization they worked for. Perhaps an updates reader is familiar with this aspect of the history of the panel. >You will doubtless realize that I have not tried to cast any >doubts on the documents reality.Its simply that I find the >claimed final down grading,destruction and subsequent non >revelation as totally unbelievable. Would someone please prove me >wrong. Ah, yes this all hinges on what one considers proof. Clearly you do not consider the testimony of these individuals - Hynek, Keogh and Ruppelt totally believable. Are you one who would suggest that our judiciary system should not rely on testimony? Yes it is pretty easy to state that you just don't find it believable and you don't think they are liars (maybe you do?). Well then offer your explanation for the situation as described by Ruppelt, the others who have claimed to have read the estimate and the historical record. Offer this for the public perusal of updates readers, that's what we are here for - aside from being entertained by the personal attack and counterattacks of the recognized ufologists on this list. Are you searching for "smoking gun" documentation? Then you ought to read the following abstracted from: Moynihan, Daniel P. (Chairman) The Commission on Protecting and Reducing Government Secrecy Senate Doc. 105-2 Washington, D.C. 1997. Here is my commentary on a portion of this important document which updates readers should be familiar with. On page XXXI of the Chairman's Foreword is a discussion which documents how truly secret information in government which is never intended to see the light of day is only transmitted verbally and is never committed to paper and ink. This discussion and example are provided below. Another relevant example of the application of the verbal secrecy technique was its utilization by General Leslie Groves for the development of the atomic bomb during the Manhattan Project. With these examples in mind we feel it is logical to deduce that there is little to no hope for the smoking gun, secret single document to reveal the UFO mystery, if Moynihan's discussion and the Grove's example don't make clear why, then you'll never understand why. What Moynihan's discussion does hold hope for is that research and analysis can pull together a reasonable scenario based on second tier docments, created by the the "grunts" stamping on overtime; and human accounts. This is the path we are following in this book; the key here is to have a clear understanding of how intelligence bureaucracies work, possess a wide ranging knowledge of the subject matter, in this case UFOs, and then apply critical analysis to the relevant information with the purpose of building the scenario mentioned above. Also see pages 8-9 of the Commission's report for an illuminating discussion of the role of leaks and counterleaks in the struggle by proponents and opponents in the establishment of contested policy. "It is now almost routine for American officials of unquestioned loyalty to reveal classified information as part of ongoing policy disputes, with one camp leaking information in support of a particular view, or to the detriment of another, or in support of settled administration policy." Does the history of the UFO field offer examples of leaks and counterleaks? This conclusion is inescapable after careful consideration of the information and misinformation that the field nearly drowns in from time to time which has emanated from government and quasi-governmental sources. >From page XXXI: "Over the course of 80 years, notably in the later period, a vast system of secrecy developed within the American Government. So much that it has been termed a culture of secrecy. The system grew so vast, however, that it began to appear unavailing. Secrecy has been defined as "the compulsory withholding of information, reinforced by the prospect of sanctions for disclosure." Almost everything was declared secret; not everything remained secret, and there were no sanctions for disclosure. In the course of 1996, the Select Committee on Intelligence of the United States Senate carried out a detailed inquiry into the decision by the President not to object to the shipment of arms to Bosnia by way of Croatia. A notable aspect of this decision was that it was never put in writing. The Deputy Secretary of State explained this to the Committee in these terms: Another reason that diplomatic transactions and internal deliberations do not end up on paper is because of the extreme sensitivity of the subject matter. What goes down on paper is more likely to come out in public, in inappropriate and harmful ways, harmful to the national interest. This, of course, is a privilege of the privileged within the system. For the grunts the rule is stamp, stamp, stamp. --- end of page XXXI >Finally with regards to your 'Dog' analogy,in this particular >case this 'Dog' keeps hunting.......for the truth!.....its out >there! Aren't we all. However I rather doubt that catch phrases from television shows and and the inspiration of taglines will reveal "truth".
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 EToS, The Analysis & Ghosts From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 14:08:10 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 00:16:35 -0500 Subject: EToS, The Analysis & Ghosts The Top Secret Estimate of the Situation from the Intelligence Division at Air Materiel Command and the "Analysis of Flying Object Incidents over the United States," (Official: "Air Intelligence Report No. 100-203-79, ANALYSIS OF FLYING OBJECT INCIDENTS IN THE U. S., Air Intelligence Division Study No. 203, 10 December 1948, Directorate of Intelligence and Office of Naval Intelligence.") are once again the subject debate. Once again the old chestnuts that the "Analysis" is either a watered down version of the EToS or that it is the "Ghost" of the "Estimate" have been revived. (See the "Analysis" at:) http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/1948air.htm In the "Ghost of the Estimate" article on the Project 1947 website these ideas are demonstrated to be wrong: http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/1948back.htm Not mentioned in the article is the fact that General (then MG) Charles Cabell, USAF Director of Intellignece on 27 July 1948, tasked his DI staff to start a study of flying saucers. This, of course, is earlier than the 8 August 1948 memo on the subject and about the same time that Ruppelt said that the EToS was initiated at the Intelligence Division of AMC at Wright Field. MG Cabell's tasking included the instruction that the study should start with the idea that UFOs were real. As he stated in his memoirs, "I reminded our people that their jobs were to prove that the 'Flying Saucers' *did* exist, because the alternative method, that of proving something does not exist, approaches the impossible." Dr. Michael Swords in draft article for the next Journal of UFO Studies considers the EToS. In the article Swords analyzes some of the factions at the Directorate of Intelligence at the T-2/Intellitence Division/ATIC. Information on the author of the EToS is contained in the article. It is important to point out that the EToS author left ATIC in February 1951 before Ruppelt was assigned to Project Blue Book. The understanding thinking of the personnel involved with the Project Sign/Grudge/Blue Book is important although it is not one of my research topics. Two people who have done considerable research in this area are Wendy Connors who started the Project Sign Research Center http://www.evansville.net/~slk/Sign.html and Michael Hall who started the Project Blue Book Research Center http://www.evansville.net/~slk/Blue.html together they are completing a book on the author of EToS which should be finished shortly. Wendy is also in the final stages of a book on Project Sign. The EToS was authored by an authority on "low aspect ratio aircraft" (flying wing and circular aircraft). He was investigating UFOs from the very beginning prior to the formation of Project Sign. There are no back up documents concerning the EToS which have come to light, however, Ruppelt referring to the progress of the document must have had some or was depending on interviews he did of Project Sign personnel. Not all Project Sign personnel were familar with the EToS as Wendy's research will show. Former AF Major Dewey Fournet asked by Barry Greenwood if the Analysis could have been mistaken for the EToS stated that they were two different documents. Fournet claims to have read the EToS. Fournet stated elsewhere that he was not particularly impressed the EToS, and thought it should have indeed been rejected as the evidence did not fit the conclusion. The Analysis discussed the possibility of the secret aircraft either US or Soviet. This area was explored several time by both AMC and the Directorate of Intellignece. In 1947, General LeMay said there were no AAF projects that could give rise to flying saucers. Col McCoy in 1948 requested that the Army, Navy and CIA be questioned about the possibility that some agency in the US was conducting experiments which would give raise to UFO reports. The Horton Brothers were questioned and the possibility that Horton aircraft were involved was investigated. By the time the Analysis was printed in April 1949, the secret aircraft theory was pretty well abandoned, however documents as late as 1955 still considered such a Soviet development a possibility. The 1949 abandonment of this idea is shown in the USAF Director of Intelligence Top Secret briefing for the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) even though the purpose of the briefing was to inform the intelligence community about the recently printedd Analysis and current thinking on UFOs up to that time. http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/49docdex.htm [In my article concerning the JIC briefing there is this sentence: "Shallet's article was his own, but probably endorsed by Mr. Leo. The Project Saucer press release was less negative than Purdy pointed out to Keyhoe." It should read: "Shallet's article was his own, but probably endorsed by Mr. Leo. The Project Saucer press release was less negative than Shallet's article as Purdy pointed out to Keyhoe." Since the JIC article was written, an 1949 interview by the Air Force TIMES of Project Grudge personnel during this time frame has been found.] Recently, there have been a few of pieces on post-WW II secret aircraft as UFO explanations. The old chestnuts about the "flying flapjack" and the Horton aircraft have again been dragged out. The evidence offered is very slim. I had tried to encourage one of these articles as it would be useful for aviation authorites to become interested and research this issue. Certainly interesting documents might result from such research. Unfortunately that has not been the case. We only seem to have "believer legends" pitted against "skeptical legends" and damned little research from either side. Those doing actual research are few in number and doing it on a shoestring. (Note: Along the skeptical legend line, a recent interview with an authority on early manned ballooning has the Skyhook balloon program as the origin of UFOs.) As far as the claim that all the documents from this early UFO era being available, that is completely false; many documents among the released collections were withheld by various agencies. There are many agencies that have released little or no material from the early UFO era. [To give credit were credit is due and deserved: Dr. Bruce Maccabee has priority for the discovery of the draft and printed copies of the "Analysis" which he labeled as the "Ghost of the Estimate." Robert Todd's FOIA campaign which lasted over one year secured the declassification and release of the Directorate of Intelligence "Flying Disc" decimal correspondence files in 1985 which also contained a partial copy of the "Analysis" later presented in the July 1985 MUFON Journal and used in Loren Gross' "UFOs History: 1948." Todd's efforts also resulted in the declassification and release of the Top Secret file concerning the tasking and progress of the "Analysis." The recently released Project Sign and Project Grudge investigative files 1948-9 were also found as the results of his efforts. Recently research has brought to light the JIC Top Secret briefing and the Daily Activity of Reports of the AAF AC/S Intelligence and USAF Director of Intelligence files for 1947-1948.] -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 EToS, The Analysis & Ghosts From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 14:08:10 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:01:30 -0500 Subject: EToS, The Analysis & Ghosts The Top Secret Estimate of the Situation from the Intelligence Division at Air Materiel Command and the "Analysis of Flying Object Incidents over the United States," (Official: "Air Intelligence Report No. 100-203-79, ANALYSIS OF FLYING OBJECT INCIDENTS IN THE U. S., Air Intelligence Division Study No. 203, 10 December 1948, Directorate of Intelligence and Office of Naval Intelligence.") are once again the subject debate. Once again the old chestnuts that the "Analysis" is either a watered down version of the EToS or that it is the "Ghost" of the "Estimate" have been revived. (See the "Analysis" at:) http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/1948air.htm In the "Ghost of the Estimate" article on the Project 1947 website these ideas are demonstrated to be wrong: http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/1948back.htm Not mentioned in the article is the fact that General (then MG) Charles Cabell, USAF Director of Intellignece on 27 July 1948, tasked his DI staff to start a study of flying saucers. This, of course, is earlier than the 8 August 1948 memo on the subject and about the same time that Ruppelt said that the EToS was initiated at the Intelligence Division of AMC at Wright Field. MG Cabell's tasking included the instruction that the study should start with the idea that UFOs were real. As he stated in his memoirs, "I reminded our people that their jobs were to prove that the 'Flying Saucers' *did* exist, because the alternative method, that of proving something does not exist, approaches the impossible." Dr. Michael Swords in draft article for the next Journal of UFO Studies considers the EToS. In the article Swords analyzes some of the factions at the Directorate of Intelligence at the T-2/Intellitence Division/ATIC. Information on the author of the EToS is contained in the article. It is important to point out that the EToS author left ATIC in February 1951 before Ruppelt was assigned to Project Blue Book. The understanding thinking of the personnel involved with the Project Sign/Grudge/Blue Book is important although it is not one of my research topics. Two people who have done considerable research in this area are Wendy Connors who started the Project Sign Research Center http://www.evansville.net/~slk/Sign.html and Michael Hall who started the Project Blue Book Research Center http://www.evansville.net/~slk/Blue.html together they are completing a book on the author of EToS which should be finished shortly. Wendy is also in the final stages of a book on Project Sign. The EToS was authored by an authority on "low aspect ratio aircraft" (flying wing and circular aircraft). He was investigating UFOs from the very beginning prior to the formation of Project Sign. There are no back up documents concerning the EToS which have come to light, however, Ruppelt referring to the progress of the document must have had some or was depending on interviews he did of Project Sign personnel. Not all Project Sign personnel were familar with the EToS as Wendy's research will show. Former AF Major Dewey Fournet asked by Barry Greenwood if the Analysis could have been mistaken for the EToS stated that they were two different documents. Fournet claims to have read the EToS. Fournet stated elsewhere that he was not particularly impressed the EToS, and thought it should have indeed been rejected as the evidence did not fit the conclusion. The Analysis discussed the possibility of the secret aircraft either US or Soviet. This area was explored several time by both AMC and the Directorate of Intellignece. In 1947, General LeMay said there were no AAF projects that could give rise to flying saucers. Col McCoy in 1948 requested that the Army, Navy and CIA be questioned about the possibility that some agency in the US was conducting experiments which would give raise to UFO reports. The Horton Brothers were questioned and the possibility that Horton aircraft were involved was investigated. By the time the Analysis was printed in April 1949, the secret aircraft theory was pretty well abandoned, however documents as late as 1955 still considered such a Soviet development a possibility. The 1949 abandonment of this idea is shown in the USAF Director of Intelligence Top Secret briefing for the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) even though the purpose of the briefing was to inform the intelligence community about the recently printedd Analysis and current thinking on UFOs up to that time. http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/49docdex.htm [In my article concerning the JIC briefing there is this sentence: "Shallet's article was his own, but probably endorsed by Mr. Leo. The Project Saucer press release was less negative than Purdy pointed out to Keyhoe." It should read: "Shallet's article was his own, but probably endorsed by Mr. Leo. The Project Saucer press release was less negative than Shallet's article as Purdy pointed out to Keyhoe." Since the JIC article was written, an 1949 interview by the Air Force TIMES of Project Grudge personnel during this time frame has been found.] Recently, there have been a few of pieces on post-WW II secret aircraft as UFO explanations. The old chestnuts about the "flying flapjack" and the Horton aircraft have again been dragged out. The evidence offered is very slim. I had tried to encourage one of these articles as it would be useful for aviation authorites to become interested and research this issue. Certainly interesting documents might result from such research. Unfortunately that has not been the case. We only seem to have "believer legends" pitted against "skeptical legends" and damned little research from either side. Those doing actual research are few in number and doing it on a shoestring. (Note: Along the skeptical legend line, a recent interview with an authority on early manned ballooning has the Skyhook balloon program as the origin of UFOs.) As far as the claim that all the documents from this early UFO era being available, that is completely false; many documents among the released collections were withheld by various agencies. There are many agencies that have released little or no material from the early UFO era. [To give credit were credit is due and deserved: Dr. Bruce Maccabee has priority for the discovery of the draft and printed copies of the "Analysis" which he labeled as the "Ghost of the Estimate." Robert Todd's FOIA campaign which lasted over one year secured the declassification and release of the Directorate of Intelligence "Flying Disc" decimal correspondence files in 1985 which also contained a partial copy of the "Analysis" later presented in the July 1985 MUFON Journal and used in Loren Gross' "UFOs History: 1948." Todd's efforts also resulted in the declassification and release of the Top Secret file concerning the tasking and progress of the "Analysis." The recently released Project Sign and Project Grudge investigative files 1948-9 were also found as the results of his efforts. Recently research has brought to light the JIC Top Secret briefing and the Daily Activity of Reports of the AAF AC/S Intelligence and USAF Director of Intelligence files for 1947-1948.] -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 44 From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 20:46:15 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:08:41 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 44 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3, Number 44 November 2, 1998 Editor: Joseph Trainor ALLEGED ALIEN RADIO SIGNAL CAUSES CONTROVERSY On Thursday, October 22, 1998, at 21:13 UTC (9:13 p.m. UK time), Paul Dore, an engineer with Siemens Corp., reportedly picked up a strange signal emanating from the constellation Pegasus. In an Internet post, Dore stated that he had been doing SETI research for "a year and a half," using the company's 10-meter (30-foot) dish antenna, plus "Inmarsat LNA with about 25db gain." Dore reported that he was running two Pentium II processors with FFTDSP42 and SETIFOX programs. While he was out of the office, the FFTDSP42 "logged a Hit...when I came inside to take a look, I saw the last of the signal fading into static. I quickly ran the REPLAY.EXE program to replay the data." He also calculated the coordinates of the transmission: Right Ascension - 23 degrees, 31 minutes, 48 seconds; Declination - 19 hours, 55 minutes, 50 seconds. The signal had come from the star system EQ Pegasi about 22 light-years (132,000,000,000,000 miles) from Earth. After a careful check of the equipment, Dore began scanning again at approximately 21:17 UTC on Friday, October 23. "The same signal was picked up, and it was at the same right ascension and declination." Once Dore posted his information, a lively debate ensued on the Internet. Grad student John M. Dollan of the University of Montana cautioned against optimism, noting that "EQ Pegasi is an unlikely, if not impossible site for indigenous intelligent life." "EQ Pegasi is a double star system, with both members being red dwarf stars," Dollan explained in an interview with UFO Roundup. "(Type) M4 and M6 respectively. Being of this class star, an Earthlike world is almost certainly out of the question, since either member will be too dim to support a viable ecosphere...Also, both stars are flare stars, meaning that they are quite young, and that their massive solar flares would be quite lethal to life." While the debate raged, Dore logged three more hits, on Monday, October 26, at 5:58 and 6:45 UTC and on Tuesday, October 27, at 7:15 UTC, all from the EQ Pegasi system. He said he had picked up the signal on frequency 1453.07512Mhz, plus or minus 400hz Doppler. While proponents claimed that a similar anomalous signal had been detected coming from EQ Pegasi on September 17, 1998, the SETI League branded the incident a hoax. "A hoax," said Prof. Nathan Cohen of Boston University, "Not even a good one." "It stuck out like a sore thumb," Cohen said, adding that he was unwilling to share the data used to determine that it was a hoax, adding, "My colleagues and I share the belief that we shouldn't aid the hoaxsters by telling them" how to improve on a fraud. Cohen did reveal that the signal "lacked the bandwidth required of a SETI signal." In an official statement, Dr. Paul Shuch of the SETI League said, "The non-profit, membership-supported SETI League has been analyzing this claim since Friday night (October 23). None of our 63 active stations around the world have been able to confirm it." "The 'signal' has been discredited by a host of radio astronomers, amateur and professional, who have analyzed the GIFs posted to the Internet," Dr. Shuch said, "The person who reported the alleged signal has violated every principle of responsible science. He has not fulfilled the carefully-crafted SETI League signal detection protocols to which all of our members are signatory." (Many thanks to Stig Agermose and John M. Dollan for this story.) (Editor's Comment: If you go outdoors tonight, look up at the nearly full moon. To the right is a bright star. That's the planet Saturn. At a two o'clock position relative to Saturn is the constellation Pegasus, the region of space from which the alleged signal came.) TWO GOATS MUTILATED IN NORTHERN OHIO Two goats were found dead and mutilated in Thompson, Ohio in early October, stirring up talk of cult activity in rural Geuga County. "Some Geuga County residents are expressing concern that the mutilation of two dead goats may be an indication of cult activity. But a law enforcement officer says he needs more evidence." "'Until somebody can prove this is satanic stuff, it's not satanic stuff,' Thompson Township Police Chief Robert Fowler said." "One goat was found dead with its horn cleanly cut off and a square of skin cut from its neck." Thompson is on Ohio Route 528 about 10 miles (16 kilometers) south of Lake Erie and 30 miles (48 kilometers) east of Cleveland. (Many thanks to Lou Farrish of UFO Newsclipping Service for this news story. See the Columbus Dispatch for October 5, 1998, "Mutilated goats spark fears of cult activity.") UFOs ACTIVE ON THE GULF COAST OF TEXAS On Friday, October 23, 1998, at 3 a.m., James C. and a friend were in a backyard in South Houston, Texas (population 14,209), not far from Genoa Bluff Road and Almeda Mall when they saw a UFO. The men "were actually just watching the stars and talking about life, problems, etc.," James reported. "We viewed this object for a period of seven seconds. I first saw it in the east, maybe a little southeast of where I was, and last saw it in the northeast." "It had a tail like a comet that was very long. It flew directly over our house and then across the sky and disappeared over the horizon. It was very fast. It was following the earth's curvature. It was very bright and had that tail...Its tail was very colorful, it was red and orange on the outline and blue in the middle, kind of like a butane lighter." (Email Interview) On Friday, October 9, 1998, two residents of South Padre Island, Texas (population 1,677) reported seeing a red, white and green UFO hovering near the shoreline condominium towers. According to the Brownsville Herald, "U.S. Coast Guard officials received two independent reports of a UFO hovering about a mile off the coast of South Padre Island. In separate telephone calls Friday night, at about 9:15 p.m., callers told a Coast Guard officer that they had seen a round object hovering in the air over the condos for between 20 to 30 seconds." "'What was described was red, white and green rotating lights over the city, just staying there,' (Coast Guard Officer Steve) Williams said." "The first report came from Seabreeze Condominiums, and the second, which came almost immediately after the first, was from Saida Towers." According to Williams, the Coast Guardsman who took the calls "notified Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio." South Padre Island is near Brownsville and the USA/Mexico border about 550 miles (848 kilometers) south of Dallas. (See the Brownsville, Tex. Herald for October 12, 1998. See also Filer's Files #42 for 1998. Many thanks to George A. Filer of MUFON, John Thompson and Philip Freeman for forwarding this news story.) CANADA PLANS MILITARY RESPONSE TO Y2K CRISIS Canadian Armed Forces have begun contigency plans to deal with the Year 2000 computer crisis, including the call-up of 60,000 reserve troops, the biggest peactime deployment ever. According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, "The Army is studying everything from the number of flashlights and batteries it will need if power is cut for weeks to which military air-traffic-control field equipment should be set up at civilian airports. Logistics officers are plotting where to position supplies, fuel, tents, cots" and other equipment. All formations have been told that the "planning for the Year 2000 computer crisis is their highest priority and will be the focus of all training from January (1999) on." Last September, Ottawa sent a 24-page order to all Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) commanders, regional headquarters and reserve units. The order stated, "There is potential for disruption of major infrastructure systems...that may require Canadian Forces support to civil authorities." Navy captains were advised that their frigates may be docked in large seaports "to provide garrisons, power plants, field hospitals and soup kitchens." In the October 1998 issue of Maple Leaf, Lt. Gen. Roy Crabbe, recently retired deputy chief of defence, wrote, "As far as Christmas (1999) goes, I don't think you can deploy 60,000 troops away from their homes at Christmas, especially from a morale point of view. I'm not sure you can say the same for New Year's Eve." The code name for the deployment is Operation Abacus, with military activities planned for Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and Vancouver. (See the Toronto Globe and Mail for October 27, 1998, "Army fears civil chaos from Millenium Bug," by Jeff Sallot and John Saunders.) (Editor's Comment: All rail transportation is now run by computers, so defective Y2K chips could disrupt delivery of food supplies. In cities reasonably close to food-producing areas, such as San Francisco, Milwaukee, Kansas City and Minneapolis, that's not a big problem. But in cities far away from farm districts, where there is only a seven-day supply of food, things could get really hairy. That would include New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Cleveland, St. Louis, Philadelphia and Boston. In South America, disruption of food deliveries could cause chaos in major metropolitan areas such as Caracas, Bogota, Lima, Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires and Santiago de Chile.) UFO SIGHTED IN NORTH CENTRAL ARIZONA On Friday, October 30, 1998, at 5:30 a.m., a witness spotted a bright reddish-orange UFO over Camp Verde, Arizona (population 6,243), a city on Interstate Highway 17 approximately 75 miles (120 kilometers) north of Phoenix. The witness reported, "I was near the west end of town, and the light was a considerable distance to the south. At first I thought I was seeing something like the big UFO over Phoenix from last year (March 13, 1997--J.T.) as the unusual lights were in a rigid V-formation." "It seemed very solid, and I first supposed it was a large object. In fact, I first thought it was a large object which was approximately 225 yards from where I was. But when I got out of my car and put on my glasses, I could tell it was several miles distant. It moved more or less east from the southwest and disappeared among the hills, then reappeared some 30 seconds later." "When it came back again, however, it was no longer in a V-formation," he added. The bright reddish-orange lights "moved east again across my field of vision and were flying more like a 'swarm.' I can't describe it exactly. But they were sort of flying around each other...The group paused for a second or two, then moved off to the south and were gone. They made no sound, and the entire sighting from beginning to end lasted maybe a minute, no longer." (Many thanks to Jim Hickman of Skywatchers International for this report.) UFO FLIES UP COLORADO'S MYSTERIOUS VALLEY On Wednesday, October 28, 1998, ufologist Christopher O'Brien, author of THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY, heard his cell phone ringing and picked it up. The caller was fellow ufologist Fabian Sauvo in Center, Colorado, located 30 miles (48 kilometers) southwest of O'Brien's home in Crestone. Sauvo was "reporting a brilliant red light flying west to east just north of Center," O'Brien reported. "I ran outside with the cellular phone and, sure enough, there was a large red light between Crestone and Center. The light ducked into a cloud around the sandpiles on Highway 17 and wouldn't come out. I waited to see if I could get a better look, and it either turned the light off or remained inside the cloud. If it wasn't a chopper, I don't know what it was. After waiting around for fifteen minutes, I gave up." On the phone, Sauvo had told him that the UFO "exhibited several ballistic moves, i.e. bobbing up and down and hovering." (Many thanks to Chris O'Brien for this report. THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY is published by St. Martin's Press and is still in print.) UFO HOVERS OVER TWO CITIES IN ARGENTINA On Sunday evening, October 25, 1998, residents of two cities of La Pampa province in Argentina reported seeing a UFO "shaped like a rugby ball and as bright as day." The luminous UFO was first reported in Santa Rosa, the provincial capital. "The strange phenomenon appeared to take the form of a rugby ball and hovered without sound at a point 60 degrees above the horizon, reported Manuel Augustin Perez in a statement to the press." "The object produced a glow similar to that produced by the reflection of the sun on a mirror or a piece of sheet metal, and, after several moments, disappeared in a southwesterly direction, he said." Residents of Santa Rosa had "the mysterious apparition" in view for approximately 19 minutes. "A pair of senior citizens who live on Ruta Provincial 7, near Camino (Highway) 5, 40 kilometers (24 miles) east of Santa Rosa, saw the object in the midst of dense clouds which dropped an intense rainfall on the area." Santa Rosa is located 420 kilometers (252 miles) southwest of Buenos Aires, the national capital. "Residents of the barrio Frederico Calandri in the city of Eduardo Castex, 80 kilometers (48 miles) north of Santa Rosa, described it as the visible form of a solid object." "An OVNI (Spanish acronym for UFO--J.T.) specialist of the province, Oscar Mario, said that the object seen could be a flying saucer." (See the newspaper Diario Popular of Buenos Aires for October 28, 1998, "Vieron un OVNI en Santa Rosa." Muchas gracias a Carlos Iurchuk para esas noticias.) (Editor's Note: Santa Rosa was the site of an encounter between three Argentinian police officers and a UFO in June 1997.) GLENN RETURNS TO SPACE ABOARD DISCOVERY Former astronaut and USA senator John Glenn, 77, returned to space last week as a payload specialist aboard the shuttle Discovery. The shuttle blasted off from Cape Canaveral, Florida at 2:19 p.m. on Thursday, October 29, 1998, cheered by thousands as it hurtled into the blue, wind-free sky. After jettisoning its fuel tanks, Discovery entered an orbit 340 miles (568 kilometers) above Earth. "'This is beautiful. It's still a trite, old statement: Zero G and I feel fine,' he added, repeating the words he uttered on his first flight 36 years ago." Then an astronaut with Project Mercury, Glenn rode into orbit aboard the Friendship 7, circling Earth three times on March 20, 1962. This is Discovery's 25th mission, commanded by Curtis Brown Jr., 42, a former lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Air Force. A resident of North Carolina, Col. Brown has flown four previous shuttle missions. Pilot Steven Lindsey, 38, is another USAF veteran. A resident of California with a wife and three children, Lindsey is on his second shuttle flight. Mission Specialist Stephen Robinson, 42, also from California, is a private pilot and a NASA research scientist. Mission Specialist Scott Parazynski, 37, divides his time between California and his new home in Boulder, Colorado. Parazynski was originally scheduled to fly aboard the Russian space station Mir but he was pulled from the mission in 1995 because he was too tall for station's seats. Representing the European Space Agency (ESA) is Mission Specialist Pedro Duque, 35, of Spain. This mission, STS-95, is Duque's first spaceflight. The only woman aboard is Payload Specialist Chiaki Mukai, 46, a cardiologist from Japan. This is her second flight aboard a space shuttle. Commenting on his first day back in orbit, Sen. Glenn said, "Being able to float around like this in Zero G--I just wish everybody could experience this...I was keyed in to every noise and quiver. It was quite a different ride than I got long ago." As in 1962, the residents of Perth, Western Australia, left their lights on as an earthbound greeting to the spacecraft. "We got a good view of Perth, a nice glow and spread out," Glenn said, "It looks even bigger now than it did back then. They've really got'em lit up tonight here." The Discovery crew's third day in orbit began with a Nat King Cole song, Cachito, and a surprise announcement for Spanish astronaut Pedro Duque-- he's a new father. "Crew member and physician Scott Parazynski- whom Glenn jokingly calls Igor--after Dr. Frankenstein's assistant--drew the first of 10 blood samples from Glenn" who "also gulped down an amino acid pill before being injected with amino acid. Researchers want to see how well alanine and histidine are absorbed by Glenn's weightless muscles and how fast protein in his muscles builds up and breaks down." On Sunday, November 1, 1998, Discovery "released a solar science satellite for 48 hours of observation...Using the shuttle's robotic arm, astronaut Steve Robinson gently dropped the 3,000-pound Spartan satellite into space while the shuttle soared 341 miles above Mexico's Baja peninsula." Mission Commander Curt "Brown then eased Discovery away from the $6 million satellite so it could go to work." "Spartan will spend two days studying the sun's outer edge, or corona, and its atmosphere and solar wind before Discovery moves back in to retrieve it on Tuesday." (See the New York Post for October 30, 1998, page 2; the New York Post for October 31, 1998, page 5; the New York Daily News for November 1, 1998, page 7, and USA Today for November 2, 1998.) (Editor's Comment: Seeing that photo of Glenn suiting up in NASA orange last week, I was struck by how natural--how essentially right-- the scene was. I thought, Flying through space is what you were born to do, John. Like they said in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home about Captain Kirk--"It is your first, best destiny.") from the UFO Files... 1977: THE ALGOMA TRIANGLE On November 3, 1977, Craig Gavine, 47, an experienced bush pilot, checked out his airplane at the airport in Marathon, Ontario, Canada, a town on the north shore of Lake Superior. Gavine was planning a flight to Toronto with Erik Lind, 33, a local engineer. The plane took off all right. But, as it passed over the Pukaskwa (pronounced Puck-a-saw) National Park on Lake Superior's eastern shore, just north of Wawa, Ont., radio contact with the aircraft was lost. "During the search a total of eleven aircraft were used to search the route and to concentrate on a stretch of bushland along the north shore of Lake Superior. The bush here is a dense maze of rock, swamp and jackpine that claims an average of a hundred lives each year." Neither Gavine nor Lind nor the plane was ever found. The "Algoma Triangle," which stretches between Marathon, Sudbury and Sault Ste. Marie, has a bad reputation. "Since 1953, thirty-four people and seventeen aircraft have been swallowed up in this area. All are believed to have plunged into the wilderness. Like Gavine and Lind, no trace of their aircraft was ever found, and their files were closed and stamped 'cause unknown.'" Planes aren't the only vehicles that have disappeared in the Algoma Triangle, either. "Among missing-person mysteries on the books of police of Winnipeg is that of Mr. and Mrs. Earl Kirk of North Bay, Ontario. On October 4, 1940, Kirk, a wholesale merchant and importer, and his wife left by car on a vacation trip. Their route took them from Sudbury, along a lonely highway running along the north shore of Lake Huron, to Sault Sainte Marie, Ont. The last man to see him and Mrs. Kirk was a gas-station attendant at Sudbury, who directed him onto Highway 17." "Not until the end of October 1940 was it known that the Kirks had disappeared...So the mystery was narrowed down to the 175 miles of highway between Sudbury and Sault Ste. Marie. Lakes and rivers and creeks were dragged, bush and woods combed by 150 men for six weeks until the snows fell and put an end to the search. Kirk's friend at Sudbury, Mr. John Newstead, said it was extremely unlikely that Kirk would have given a lift to a paranoiac wanderer. To this day...no one knows what became of Mr. and Mrs. Kirk." (See GATEWAY TO OBLIVION by Hugh Cochrane, Avon Books, New York, NY, 1980, pages 66-67, and FLYING SAUCERS UNCENSORED by Harold T. Wilkins, Citadel Press, 1955, page 224) FUN UFO WEBSITES: Alain Delplanque informs me that the French UFO group, SOS OVNI, was a new website. Drop in anytime at http://www.sosovni.com There's a new UFO website in Slovakia. Waldemar Uminsky's Asociaca UFO Badatelov (AUFOB) is open. Readers are invited to visit the site at http://www.aufob.sk Don't miss our parent site, UFO INFO, with its vast array of news, photos and features. Just log in at http://ufoinfo.com Back issues of UFO Roundup can be read, accessed and downloaded at our webpage. Feel free to drop in any time. We're at http://ufoinfo.com/roundup Eighty-six years ago, on November 5, 1912, a pilot named Galbraith P. Rogers completed the first airplane flight across the continental USA. Rogers's flight time was 82 hours, 4 minutes. (Editor's Comment: And if Galbraith were still among us, he'd probably volunteer for the next space shuttle flight.) That's it for now. We'll be back next week with more saucer news from around the planet, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: UFOs and Music From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 16:42:40 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:19:46 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and Music Hi All, Guess what... Contrary to all the great replys by musically talented investigators, Researchers, and UFO enthusiasts, I can't play, pompose, or sing a note! Now, my question is: Does that make me any less qualified to be a UFO Researcher??? Unfortunately, talent skipped me, but was passed on to my children... I have five who were musicians in High School and a couple who continued it in college... My oldest son, Damon, Graduated from Evansville University and went to North Texas State, in Denton, TX. for three years to continue his "music" education. He Plays virtually all insturments, composes and arranges musical arrangements and words. He also is striving to make his place in Modeling and Acting. He has read for a couple of movies and TV programs, but to my knowledge, he has yet to land a part. He is also submitting his photo portfolio, per request to "Fitness Magazine." He is not interested in Researching UFOs....says he doesn't have the time, although, he is openminded to the subject. So, just for those of you, who, like myself are not talented musicians, and can't laud our accomplishments here in this echo...It doesn't matter. Just keep on doing what you (and I) do... Maybe we will get lucky one day and find a smoking gun, while others are "smoking the keyboards, strings, and precussion insturments." <g> REgards, Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent this way will go directly to my screen. If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: Sighting In Virginia? From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 14:27:16 PST Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:26:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Sighting In Virginia? >Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 03:58:17 -0800 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sighting In Virginia? >>From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Sighting In Virginia? >>Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:44:41 -0800 >>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto >>>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Sighting In Virginia? >>>Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 4:56 PM >>>Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:42:35 -0500 >>>From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto >>>Subject: Sighting In Virginia? >>>I have been watching the sky for some time now and mostly have >>>seen planes and helicopters, this morning at 6 am, I decided to >>>go out and smoke my pipe, >><snip> >>It's been my observation that pipes are far more effective than >>telescopes, cameras, or any other instrument in the detection of >>UFOs. This probably also accounts for why fewer UFO reports are >>generated by women. >>Kind regards, >>Keith >Keith I would say that is rather subjective. It depends on what >one puts in the pipe. Herbal ingredients tend to make it more >gender balanced. I can only speculate whether it would cause an >increase in sighting reports. >Josh Goldstein G'day Keith & Josh, It could be quite simply that when the man draws on pipe blood oxygen levels drop causing 'abnormal visual stimuli' in the optic nerves, or at least the part of the brain that processes sight. Regards, Leanne ];-)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: Mike Jarmus Net Radio Sunday Night From: Stephen Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 19:16:31 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:28:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Mike Jarmus Net Radio Sunday Night Program Note Stephen Bassett of Paradigm Research Group will be a guest on the Mike Jarmus net radio program Sunday night at 10 pm EST. He will discuss recent developments in Washington which may have significant impact on the politics of UFOs/disclosure. The Mike Jarmus program is located at: http://people.csnet.net/georgec/welcome.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: Top SETI Scientist Denounces Alien Signal Hoax From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 16:55:51 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:36:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Top SETI Scientist Denounces Alien Signal Hoax >Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:18:51 -0500 >From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Top SETI Scientist Denounces Alien Signal Hoax >>From: John White <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: RRe: Top SETI Scientist Denounces Alien Signal Hoax >>Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:09:10 -0700 >>>>Scientist Denounces Elaborate Alien Signal Hoax >>>Well well, a scientific hoax! Who would have guessed? Time for >>>the old debunker steamroller stamp. >>>This hoax surely implies that the whole SETI project is a hoax, >>>that Sagan et al. knew from the beginning, and are thus fraud, >>>that any data SETI ever gets will be either hallucination or >>>wishful thinking. Anything else? Sure. Any pro-SETI scientist is >>>no scientist anymore when he/she even thinks SETI, only some >>>poor gullible SOB. >>Serge, List, et al., >>I was shocked by the hubris of SETI's spokesfolks in their >>certainty as to 'hoax'. These guys' anthropomorphic approach to >>"alien" communication techniques makes loose shoes ufologists >>look conservative by comparison. >>Jeez. >>Best of ...... > >>John White mjawhite@digitaldune.net >Well, I certainly have to agree with you John on your thoughts >here, you would think researchers would take more time to be >certain about things. There's more new news already and more >people getting involved, who knows before it's over someone may >have to get their foot out of their mouth. >Michael Hodges Michael, John and all, There's the (usual) other possibility to consider here -- an ET/alien hoax. They could easily move out to a position between Earth and Pegasus, several times farther from us than the distance of Pluto from the sun, and beam their signal toward Earth for a while. Then they could move in relatively close above some particular, operating radio-telescope facility and beam it (at reduced amplitude) to them only, in which case all others who don't receive it would declare it to be a mistake or hoax. And so on. The purpose would be the usual -- to cause a larger segment of the population, in this instance mainly astronomers, to start to wonder if a close ET presence might not indeed be real, with an escape route provided for those who could not accept this even as a possibility. This the aliens involved might do, in keeping with what we've observed during 50 years of the UFO phenomenon, in the absence of any actual EM signals from other civilizations that may be way beyond the use of EM communications as we understand them. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 RPIT Roswell Revisitation Report No. 1 From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 19:56:51 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:54:47 -0500 Subject: RPIT Roswell Revisitation Report No. 1 RPIT Roswell Revisitation Report No. 1 PRIMARY PURPOSE: The primary purpose of this RPIT Report No. 1 is to present the findings of RPIT (Roswell Photo Interpretation Team) photo analysts after five-months of intensive study of the Roswell "flying saucer" photos taken in the office of General Ramey on July 8, 1947, and then to invite the assistance of UFOlogists who are willing to seriously address this question: "What can all this evidence really mean toward resolving the half century old Riddle of Roswell?" Even though the RPIT group at this juncture is only presenting this evidence and offering no final conclusions, it would appear that this may be the most convincing close-up visual evidence of arrival of an ET spacecraft on earth. BACKGROUND: In May of 1998 Major George Filer, USAF-Ret., an official in the MUFON organization and publisher of "Filer's Files", contacted a fellow military retiree, Colonel James Bond Johnson, USA-Ret., to voice a special concern. Filer had been phone visiting with the widow of Lt. Gen. Roger Ramey, USAF-Ret., and she had expressed concerns over what she described as unfair treatment of her late husband in connection with his part in the Roswell Event of 1947. At issue is whether the general committed fraud upon the American people by announcing during a special live radio broadcast that the object first identified officially by the then Army Air Forces as a "captured flying saucer" was in fact "only a weather balloon and weather device." A few writers had even accused the general of "switching" the actual debris with fake junk prior to allowing a member of the press to examine and photograph the purported wreckage. Johnson, who on the afternoon of July 8, 1947, had taken a series of photos of General Ramey and two other officers in the general's 8th Air Force HQ offices in Fort Worth, Texas, for his newspaper, the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, offered to revisit the matter. Johnson only recently had obtained an enlargement of a photo of one of the officers, Major Jesse Marcel, intelligence officer of the 509th Bombardment Group, stationed at Roswell, NM. Major Marcel had headed a recovery team of the "flying saucer" wreckage from a ranch near Roswell and had been ordered to courier the debris to General Ramey's office for examination. Marcel had just arrived in Fort Worth by B-29 bomber and was photographed as the debris was being unpacked from meat wrapper paper packages in Ramey's office. The general was away from his office but expected to return shortly. Two unopened packages of debris lying in clear view, Marcel's soiled flight uniform, scruffy field boots and his tie and uniform cap tossed across a nearby radiator on a blazing summer day in Texas point to a "fast breaking" and unresolved situation. Reporter-photographer Johnson had arrived unexpectedly to provide the sole photo coverage of what has proved to be the "Story of the Century!" Johnson first assisted with the debris unpacking and then "posed" Marcel with what later was described by the major as some of the "less impressive pieces" of the wreckage. When General Ramey returned to his office Johnson photographed him alone examining the pieces of wreckage and then he was joined in other shots by Colonel Thomas J. Dubose, Ramey's chief of staff. Of special interest, the general in each of the four pictures taken of him by Johnson is holding a letter-size paper. In the first two pictures the general has the message folded but in the last two shots it is unfolded and in a position to be read. It has been speculated that Ramey was handed an urgent message as he entered his office and that if he first had read the message he never would have permitted the photos to be made. In support of this theory, shortly after Johnson departed the Ramey office, the general ordered his weather officer to report to his office and to identify the debris as a "weather balloon and radar device." Then, the general personally went to a Fort Worth radio station that same night to make his dramatic announcement that "shot down" the earlier official AAF "flying saucer" "capture" story. And the Roswell debris NEVER has been seen since by any member of the media during the next 51 years! The five month study by RPIT has been done in a completely "Sunshine" climate with frequent updates being made to the UFO community and research results being posted independently on their web pages by each RPIT analyst. All of these RPIT member web sites are linked to the link page of <A HREF="http://www.ufomind.com/people/j/johnsonj/">James Bond Johnson.</A> None of the RPIT analysts have sought any financial profit from their findings and also they have borne their own expenses to date in advancing this project. INVESTIGATIVE ACTIONS TAKEN: After the call from Filer, Johnson first examined the Marcel photo he had obtained from the University of Texas at Arlington Library, depository of four of the original Ramey office photo negatives. He noticed what seemed to be never before noticed anomalous objects and symbols in the debris. He then contacted two members of the MUFON Orange County to show them his findings and then placed on the Internet an invitation for others to assist in "revisiting" the Ramey office photos. Selected as charter members of RPIT (Roswell Photo Interpretation Team) were three volunteers from the United States and two from the UK. The Team has since been augmented by other volunteers from Australia to the former USSR. The only things the Team shares in common is an interest in trying to solve the Riddle of Roswell; they all possess a computer and the required software for photo analysis. The team members at the beginning of the project were mostly skeptics regarding any ET connection to the Roswell Event. RPIT members independently obtained enlargements of the Ramey office photos directly from UTA and began their investigations under coordination by Ronald Regehr, Los Angeles area aerospace satellite engineer and MUFON Orange County associate director. Initial Team findings concluded that none of the several Air Force explanations as to the details of the Roswell Event could have been accurate. The Air Force had claimed recently that the Roswell "UFO" was "likely" an experimental Mogul balloon train. RPIT has determined that: 1) There was NO Mogul launch that reasonably could have produced the kinds of debris seen in the Ramey office photos. 2) The Ramey office photos contain NONE of the items that would have been found in the wreckage of a Mogul balloon train: sheets of plain aluminum foil with balsa wood stick frames and all held together by several hundred feet of string; this all was then lifted by inflated helium filled neoprene balloons. Neither the instructions in English included with each Mogul balloon train nor any other English writings -- or any other known language writings -- are to be found in the Ramey office photos. 3) The RPIT initial discoveries also included: (A) foil like material that is covered by organized symbols or glyphs such as would be utilized in "writings". The symbols are described as similar to ancient Egyptian glyphs but have not yet been deciphered. Some symbols are found repetitively in various parts of the photos, which would virtually eliminate the "chance" factor; (B) beams which have very prominent organized symbols or glyphs embossed in bas relief along several beams in the wreckage; (C) The beams appear to be hollow and fabricated from some type of possibly ceramic material -- but NOT balsa wood as used in a Mogul train! -- which has been formed and drilled in several places; and, (D) Numerous other anomalous objects that would NOT be found in a Mogul train or any other weather balloon or Rawin device. CONCLUSION: Please forward any comments and suggestions for further research to any of the RPIT members, including: Ronald Regehr, Project Coordinator email: Ronald.Regehr@Aerojet.com Marilyn Ruben, Photo Analyst email: MJ Ruben@aol.com Neil Morris, Photo Analyst email: Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk Ben Field, Photo Analyst email: Ben@abcfield.force9.co.uk James Bond Johnson, Project Director email: JBONJO@aol.com Submitted: November 1, 1998
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 'SETI' Signal: Japanese Ham's Report? From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:03:46 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 09:44:41 -0500 Subject: 'SETI' Signal: Japanese Ham's Report? Forwarded from the SETI Email Discussion List. For information on the list go to this page at the SETI League's website: http://www.setileague.org/admin/setilist.htm Stig ******* Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 03:30:22 -0500 From: Lofthouse <Webmaster@Lofthouse.com> To: seti@sni.net Subject: SETI Jpanese Ham's report? Do any of you actually have radio equipment capable of detecting this signal if it actually exists? Have you pointed your dishs at the suspected signal? Another report has showed up supposedly from a Japanese ham. The frequecy given in the report is 1452.188 Mhz: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/japan.html Call sign shows up on the web at: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~nb8k-mtd/log02.html -- Web based news about possible SETI signal http://www.absalom.com/pagasi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 'SETI' Signals: Guernsey Ham's Identity Confirmed From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:22:52 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 10:26:26 -0500 Subject: 'SETI' Signals: Guernsey Ham's Identity Confirmed Forwarded from the SETI Email Discussion List. As some of you will know the first independent 'corroboration' of the signals, that Paul Gore received, came from Guernsey, see http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/verified.html The e-mail, that iniated the reply from Webmaster@Lofthouse.com, was sent by Professor Nathan Cohen of Boston University, one of the leading SETI scientists. Stig ******* 2. November 1998 09.31.03 From: Webmaster@Lofthouse.com Subject: Re: SETI GU0NHD To: Stig Agermose seti@sni.net At 07:21 PM 11/1/98 EST, you wrote: > An e-mail informed me that there IS a GU0NHD. This amateur >exists; he doesn't show up on QRZ data base, but does on a more >obscure one. I will attempt to contact him and see if he is for >real. http://www.guernsey.net/~sgibbs/amateur_radio/gu_calls.html GU0NHD K F Benton, Keukenhof, Route de Carteret, Castel, Guernsey GY5 7YS -- webmaster@lofthouse.com http://www.lofthouse.com/ http://www.lofthouse.com/Christopher/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 'SETI' Signals: Prof. Cohen Of Boston Comments From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:01:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 10:54:04 -0500 Subject: 'SETI' Signals: Prof. Cohen Of Boston Comments Forwarded from the SETI Email Discussion List. Professor Nathan Cohen Of Boston University, who is one of the leading SETI scientists and who voiced his opinion that it's all a hoax, in a recent Business Wire message - see: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m30-005.shtml has just made this comment. Stig ******* Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:12:25 EST From: Fractenna@aol.com To: seti@sni.net Subject: Re: SETI more confirmations of the signal? In a message dated 11/2/98 2:42:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, cydonia@bemyguest.com writes: >Greetings... >Please view this page and respond to what is posted. > >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/ja>>pan.html >Convinced this is all some plot to get you to click that page? >Fine, here's the text, sorry about the spacing. Please DO look >at theat page and the attached images/screendumps and respond >on this list. Surely, you are all considering these new reports >and looking for the signal yourselves as best you can, right? <snipped - the e-mail, which I just forwarded, concerning the Japanese ham, Stig> The NICE thing about the hoaxsters is that they have pointed out real people--which the press is now bound to talk to. The hoax thus becomes self-killing, unfortunately at the expense of some unsuspecting hams. In doing so, the emphasis is no longer on us, this seti list. Thus ends my comments on the 'EQ Seti hoax'. The quantum communication thread sounds interesting:-) 73 Chip N1IR NC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 SETI Hoax 'Proved'?: Effelsberg Denies Everything From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>=20 Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:21:50 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 10:59:01 -0500 Subject: SETI Hoax 'Proved'?: Effelsberg Denies Everything I have just received this e-mail from the "Max-Planck-Institut f=FCr Radioastronomie" in Bonn which runs the Effelsberg Radio Observatory. ******* Date: Mon, 2 Nov 98 14:04:13 +0100 From: public@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Oeffentlichkeitsarbeit) To: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk Subject: Re: Correction: SETI Press Conference Wednesday? Dear Mr. Agermose, concerning your e-mail request: (a) The circulated message that the 100m telescope of the MPIfR is involved in observations to cnfirm a SETI signal is WRONG !!!! (b) The MPIfR will publish an official "dementi" on its webpage. (c) The MPIfR is not involved in any SETI projects. (d) The MPIfR is not invited to the conference in London. We have no information on date and place of the conference. Best regards, Dr. Rolf Schwartz MPIfR
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 'SETI' Signal: Press Conference Still On From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:06:29 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 11:11:36 -0500 Subject: 'SETI' Signal: Press Conference Still On Source: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/conf.html Stig ******* News conference slated for Wenesday November 4th, despite allegations of a hoax. * Paul Dore and two radio astronomers from the Effelsberg Radio Observatory in Effelsberg, Germany are to announce the discovery of repeating, artificial signals from space at a press conference to take place in London Wenesday Novemeber 4th. When the engineer was asked what he thought of of the allegations that this was all a hoax he responded, "This is absolutely not a hoax. I will admit there were problems with the first two images I posted being infact the same one with the wrong date stamp on one. I was so exicted I rushed onto the Internet to a CLOSED list to get confirmation. Unfortunately I wasn't careful to check the two images. I admit that was sloppy however the people alleging that I made this all up have yet to refute any of the subsequent screen dumps I posted." (Series 1026-1, 1026-2, 1027-1 on this site) "Furthermore they have not seen the data from the observatory in Europe. I feel they are basically calling this a hoax because they feel left out. This was not the type of signal the SETI establishment was expecting ie: a beacon signal announcing "hello" nor is it an interstellar version of I love lucy." When asked what he thought the signals were he responded, "That would be speculation and I would rather not speculate however my expertise is in radar. I've worked on radar systems for the RAF and I feel that this is most likely a radar or navigational signal, perhaps intended for an interstellar probe that just happens to be in our general direction. Again, due to the nature of my work I am somewhat biased." When told that the SETI project at Harvard known as BETA disabled their real-time data website his response was: "That does not suprise me one bit. We have had a hard time observing since this was publicized. It seems that at times the signal is being wiped out by a close by noise source though I won't go so far as to say its intentional jamming. Additionally I have had a car with government tags shadowing me for the last few days since my identity was revealed on the internet. I am not the paranoid type, as I said before, I don't trust many people, and that includes the government. It's just my nature." When asked about the Buisness Wire story he responded: "I haven't seen that but I assuming it asserts this is a hoax I have no further comment other than I am satisfied that it is not. Next Wenesday will make that point perfectly and completely clear beyond a shadow of a doubt."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Sighting in Pretoria, South Africa From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 16:10:58 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 11:13:42 -0500 Subject: Sighting in Pretoria, South Africa To follow on from the Virginia sighting thread: I'm not an astronomers, so please forgive any faux pas... Friday, 30 October, 19:26 SAST (GMT-2). Bright, steady light moving S to N, about 70 degrees from horizon (20 degrees off vertical). Passed just "below" the "Evening Star" (Venus?). That would put it about vertical to the Middle East, depending on orbital range? Are there polar orbiting satellites? regards Jakes E. Louw louwje@telkom.co.za Jakes E. Louw louwje@telkom.co.za
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: UFO Name Change? From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:45:50 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 11:17:45 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Name Change? From: Rebecca <XianneKei@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:38:31 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Name Change? >Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:45:34 -0500 (EST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Name Change? >>OK, but we don't know that they are objects, and they don't >>"fly" in the same sense that an airplane or rocket does, so the >>Lets just call them U. >>Bob >Hi Bob!!! >Do you really want to get into this with me? <G> No, not really! >A butterfly isn't made of butter nor does it make butter and it >doesn't fly in the same manner as a rocket or an airplane, >should we change its name as well? Actually, it is a misconception that insect flight does not follow aerodynamic principles. It does. But a rocket powered butterfly, I agree, is unlikely. >Long time, no chat. >Rebecca Agreed. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: New Roswell Documents? From: Michel M. Deschamps <739411@ican.net> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:50:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 11:27:52 -0500 Subject: Re: New Roswell Documents? >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New Roswell Documents? >Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 05:51:06 -0000 <snip> >This Roswell incident has been done to death and relies upon >nonsense like MJ-12 and now this! Eight crash sites, numerous >and ever-so convenient new witnesses coming out of the woodwork, >new books going over the same old ground.....and now some more >(no doubt highly dubious) "documents". Look who's talking nonsense! Don't you know that there contains a reference to MJ-12 in a Canadian document dubbed "The Smith Memo"? MJ-12 is not a made-up story. The Canadian Government (or members thereof) do not have the same motivations as their American counterparts in "creating fake documents" to confuse the issue. I'm not even sure I've seen proof that the American Government (or members thereof) have actually engaged in "creating fake documents" just for the hell of it. Everything in that Canadian document points in the direction of MJ-12 as having been, at one point in time, a real group investigating flying saucers and their technology. For more info on this document, I suggest you read 'Crash At Corona' and "Top Secret/Majic" written by Stanton Friedman, in cooperation in part with Don Berliner. There are too many details about the links between MJ-12 and UFO-related matters that click together for it to be just a simple hoax. I think Mr. Tim Matthews doesn't know what the he's talking
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Upsurge in St Louis Valley [US] Reports From: Christopher O'Brien <tmv@pop.amigo.net> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:35:42 -7 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 12:48:18 -0500 Subject: Upsurge in St Louis Valley [US] Reports After two years of relative quiet, reports of unusual activity in the San Luis Valley have increased in recent weeks. As a result, I have elected to forward these reports to you. OCTOBER Thur October 8, 1998 10:30 PM, Highway 160; 4 miles west of Blanca, CO MA1/FB1 Alamosa County (O'Brien) R.A.L. West, while headed east on Highway 160 (near the curve 4 miles west of Blanca, CO), observed an amber colored "hemispherical-shaped" light hovering over the Blanca Massif. She estimated the lights size as around Venus-sized. After a few seconds, the object appeared to jump approximately 20 degrees upward. West pulled off the road and parked (with her engine running) to carefully observe the light. The witness is confused and could not completely remember how long she watched, but she guessed "several minutes." The next thing she clearly recalled was the craft flying at a high rate of speed above her car; headed NE to SW. She described a "triangle-shaped array of white and amber lights" blinking in sequencially in "patterns" on the underneath side. She could not estimate the crafts altitude, nor was she able to make out the craft's shape or structure. She did not hear any sound except her car engine running. No other cars were on the road in the immediate vicinity, and I have not received any other reports of this event. West mentioned another sighting that m ay have been military related on August 5, 1998 [see August Report section--tmv] Tue October 13, 1998, 9:00 PM Crestone/Baca Developmnt, CO Saguache County AN1 (O'Brien) A "weird amber-colored light" was observed by four witness moving north-to-south. The object appeared to be "way up in the sky," but ". . . was larger and moving faster than a regular satellite." Wed October 14, 1998, 11:30 AM, Los Cumbres Golf Course, Crestone, CO AN1 (O'Brien) Golfer on the par four--fouth hole fairway, observed a "silver-colored disc hovering over Mt Adams," (a 13,000' mountain just north of Crestone Peak), about 8 miles north of his location. Object seemed to wobble, but did not appear to be headed anywhere. Golfer made his second shot and could still see the craft. He headed toward the green watching it. After making his third shot the object had disappeared. He estimated the object was visible for at least 5 minutes. Sat October 24, 1998, Just before sunset, Highway 17 near Mineral Hot Springs, Saguache County AN1 (O'Brien) Motorist observed "two large glowing white objects" that fell at a high rate of speed toward the ground "over Alamosa," (45 miles south). The witness at first thought the objects were meteors, but realized the sun was still up and it was still light out, and the objects did not resemble normal meteors; they were "... not as bright." Duration "a couple of seconds." [Large daylight meteor sightings?--tmv] Tue October 27, 1998, 9:30 PM Center, CO Saguache County, AN1 (O'Brien) Fabian Sauvo reports a anomalous unblinking bright red light directly north of Hooper, CO. The light at times appeared to hover, but seemed to be traveling slowly SW-to-NE. Calls me real-time and I am able to see the object from my roof. SAME TIME Tue October 27, 1998, 9:30 PM Baca Grande Development, Saguache County AN1 (O'Brien) Sauvo after several minutes on the phone to me, was able to describe the above red-lights location, and I observe the light for several seconds before it disappeared into a cloud bank. I waited for awhile, but it never emerged from the cloud. The light seemed to be between 4 and 5,000' above the ground and over the Sand Piles on Highway 17; between Hooper and Moffat, CO. [Rare to get a call and be able to simultaneously see an anomalous object a UFO (or military craft?) while on the phone with another witness!--tmv] Fri October 29, 1998, Baca Grande Development Saguache County (O'Brien) Resident reports small objects hitting her roof. No hail or rain was present at the time. House is out in the Valley and has no tall trees within a quarter-mile. Activity is tip of the iceberg. Small hooded figures (about 4' tall) on a couple of occasions, have been seen (during the preceeding two weeks), running past the windows. Heavy footsteps have been heard in the house, but no one is there. A tapered "hairy-pig" was reportedly seen outside running past the house. [there are no wild/hairy pigs in the SLV to my knowledge. This sounds like a "Prairie Dragon" sighting--tmv] Witness claims they were "slammed into a door" be an unseeen force several days earlier. The event left "a bruise on her cheek" and was witnessed by a painter working in the house several feet away. This particular house has a history of unusual dimensional-sounding activity by prior residents, but has been apparently dormant for two-years until the last two weeks in October '98. The following day, Sat October 30, 1998, at 11:00 PM, same location CE1 (O'Brien) Same witness observes a foot-long oval-shaped object enter through her back door and slowly head up the hallway toward her. She described the anomaly as being "milky-looking with a reflective band around the rim." The band appeared to be like chrome. The witness was so startled she stopped looking at the object which apparently then disappeared. She estimated, at it's closest, it was 10' away from her as it came toward her down the hallway. [I've been waiting for the new owners to report unusual activity in this house. They're BACK!--tmv] SEPTEMBER Tue Sept 1, 1998, 9:40 AM, Highway 17 and 160 Alamosa, Alamosa County, CO (O'Brien) I was headed to Alamosa, CO, when I happened to follow a red late-model Cadillac wirth Oklahoma license plates onto Highway 17 off of Road T, headed out of Crestone/Baca Dev. The caddy sped off south and caught up with a CO State Patrol Vehicle; driving in an unmarked semi's blind-spot, on Highway 17. I caught up with the three of them 5 miles north of Hooper, CO, and followed them all the way into town. The caddy tail-gated the State Patrol and Semi the entire 30 miles into Alamosa, where all three turned into the Loaf & Jug truck parting lot at the corner of 160 and 17. Then, less than a minute later two blocks east, an unmarked sedan with alternating-flashing head and tail lights (w/ a heavy-set man in a dark suit at the wheel) dashed around traffic, and headed toward Loaf & Jug. I then noticed a Haz Mat response van a block later. During the trip south on 17, several obvious speeders went by and the Patrol car ignored them all. He also kept right on the semi's tail, even when the truck traveled way under the speed limit. The caddy stuck less than 30 feet from the patrol car for over 30 miles. Coincedence? As I returned down Road T, at 11:20 AM, I noticed a white unmarked Bronce w/ US Government plates sitting at the Road 65T enterance of the Baca Ranch. [Go figure . . . When the convoys appear aerial reports usually follow--tmv] SAME NIGHT [why am I not surprised?--tmv} 10:15 PM to 10:25 PM North Central San Luis Valley Saguache/Alamosa/Custer County, CO (O'Brien) Large craft with alternating pulsing white lights heard and/or spotted by numerous Creston/Baca Grande residents. A loud, low-pitched rumbling sound rattled windows and alerted residents to the crafts presence. Several versions stated the craft took between 5 and 10 minutes to cross the Valley, from west to east, and illuminated the clouds over the Sangres as it just passed over the range. Mon Sept 14, 1998, at 6:15 AM Highway 285-North of Monte Vista, CO AN1 Rio Grande/Saguache County (O'Brien) A Monte Vista, CO resident, while headed north on 285 witnessed a "V-shaped craft hovering over the tops of the mountains to the west." The sun has above the horizon and seemed to reflect off the object "like the sun reflecting on an airplane wing," but the object's structure was still plainly visible to the witness. The witness described the object as looking like "2 big rectangular pillers put together in a V-shape. . . the size of three (commercial jet) airliners." The witness observed the craft for over ten minutes before he traveled to far north and left it behind him--still hovering over the mountains. No one else driving on 285 seemed to notice the object which puzzled the witness because, "it was so big." [end of report log entries] Word is going out to our SLV network and skywatchers are being asked to be extra vigilant. Several organized watches are being planned. Your feedback and/or comments are requested. Take care...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 ASP: The Frequently Questioned Answer From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 20:28:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 14:28:42 -0500 Subject: ASP: The Frequently Questioned Answer From: jpolanik@mindspring.com Awareness during Sleep Paralysis, the Frequently Questioned Answer Skeptics often use 'sleep paralysis' to explain (or explain away) Alien Abductions, Old Hag Attacks and other paranormal phenomena, such as Out-of-Body Experiences. How realistic is this? Q. What is Sleep Paralysis? During REM sleep or Rapid Eye Movement Sleep, the brain is remarkably active, so much so that this state is often called 'paradoxical sleep'. During this state the brain paralyzes the body (except for the eyes) so that we do not act out those dreams that occur in this state. This is 'Sleep Paralysis', although a better term would be 'REM-state paralysis'. We all experience it --- 4 to 6 times a night, whenever we cycle into REM-state sleep. Q. Well, okay, but we're usually not aware of all these episodes of sleep paralysis. Precisely! It's the presence of *Awareness* during Sleep Paralysis [ASP] that makes a difference. When someone becomes or remains aware/self-aware during the sleep paralysis event this state of Awareness is called 'Awareness during Sleep Paralysis'. It can be very frightening and the experiencer's reflexive reaction is usually to break out of the paralysis and to prevent subsequent episodes. Q. ASP? Could you be a little more specific? Have you ever found yourself lying fully conscious or in a dreamlike state, unable to move or cry out, while perhaps experiencing auditory or visual phenomena? If so, you have experienced Awareness during Sleep Paralysis [ASP]. An episode of ASP can occur while the body sleeps in any position, but it is much more likely while sleeping on one's back. Especially when sleeping in this prone position, experiencers may feel the pressure of a crushing weight on their chest as if being pushed downward into the bed. The ASP experiencer may be unable to feel the breathing process continue, but those who see their chest can see it continue to inhale and exhale --- they just don't feel it as the body has gone to sleep while the consciousness remains alert despite reduced sensory input from the body. The chest pressure and the inability to feel the breathing process is very likely the origin of the illusion of suffocating or of being suffocated by a phantom being sitting on their chest --- the 'Crusher' of classical literature. ASP experiencers often feel intense fear and may even believe that they are dying. Some sense the presence of an unseen, malevolent being. Other see it (or them!) approaching with an obviously evil intent. The experiencer may interpret these beings as aliens, demons, the 'Old Hag', incubi/succubi or whatever. Q. So, Sleep Paralysis explains Alien Abductions, Old Hag Attacks and other paranormal experiences? No! Sleep Paralysis *can't* explain any of these or other anomalous experiences. Since everyone experiences sleep paralysis 4 - 6 times a night, as they cycle into REM sleep, mere sleep paralysis does not differentiate between those who report Alien Abductions Experiences, Old Hag Attacks, Incubi/Succubi Visitations, Lucid Dream Events or Out-of-Body Experiences, and those who don't report these unusual experiences. What *does* differentiate between those who do and those who do not report these anomalous experiencers is the presence of Awareness during Sleep Paralysis. Simply put: Experiencers are Aware during an episode of REM-state sleep paralysis! Non experiencers are not. Q. How does this make a difference? Someone who is Aware may take control of the situation and aim for a more positive outcome. Q. What sort of positive outcomes are possible? Along with the frightening aspects of ASP listed above there are other aspects that are usually experienced as pleasant. For example, sometimes experiencers report floating upward or drifting away from their bodies. This awareness can develop into a full-fledged Out-of-Body Experience or Lucid Dream Experience, especially if the experiencer knows what to do. It is also possible that incorporating sensations of floating into non-lucid dreams may result in a dream of flying. Consequently, the experience of bodily immobility may become a gateway to a lucid dream or out-of-body experience. At the very least the experiencer may banish fear and whatever entities, if any, try to approach him/her. Q. What about people who believe they are being abducted by aliens? How do they turn the situation toward a more positive outcome? Abduction researcher, Ann Druffel, found numerous abductees who warded off an impending abduction or aborted an abduction in the early stages. Interestingly enough, the techniques these abductees used are the same as those used by others to ward off visitations by entities not perceived as being aliens but as demons, the old hag or whatever. More recently, other researchers have confirmed Ms Druffel's findings. Moreover, Ms Druffel has continued her research and has written a book titled _How to Defend Yourself from Alien Abduction_ published by Three Rivers Press (ie Random House). Q. Okay, you've explained why Awareness during Sleep Paralysis is the Frequently Questioned Answer. What are the FAQs? The ASP FAQ is contained in a two-part document being posted along with this introduction. 0.0 Outline of ASP-FAQ 1.0 ASP and the DHEA/Melatonin Cycle 1.1 Melatonin 1.2 DHEA 1.3 The Dance of Melatonin and DHEA during sleep 1.3.1 Cortical Activation during REM Sleep 1.3.2 Alpha Waves during REM Sleep 1.3.3 Fibromayalgia and the Alpha EEG Anomaly 1.3.4 Chronic Fatigue Syndrome 1.3.5 Melatonin vs SOREMPs 1.3.5.1 Jet Lag 1.3.5.2 Narcolepsy 1.3.6 Melatonin and the Onset of Puberty 1.4 Reasons to Suspect a Relationship Between ASP and AAEs 1.4.1 Similarities in Experiencer Reports of ASP and AAE 1.4.2 Similarities in the Means of Resistance 2.0 Active Responses 2.1 Preventive Measures 2.1.1 Avoid sleeping on your back. 2.1.2 Adjust the DHEA/Melatonin 2.1.2.1 Disclaimer 1 2.1.2.2 Disclaimer 2 2.1.2.3 Adverse Reactions to Melatonin 2.2 Resistance Techniques 2.2.1 The Struggle to Move a Finger 2.2.2 Spiritually Oriented Techniques 2.2.2.1 Calling on a Spiritual Personage 2.2.2.2 Prayer 2.2.2.3 Giving Love 2.3 Participation Techniques 2.3.1 Fariba Bogaran using Relaxation 2.3.2 Stephen LaBerge using Imagination 2.3.3 Sylvan J Muldoon inviting Astral Catalepsy 2.3.4 Sylvan J Muldoon using Guided Imagery <============== ASP-FQA Last Updated: 1998/11/01 ====================> (c) Joseph Polanik Permission is hereby given for electronic distribution of intact copies of this document. Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com> Trionic Research Institute http://www.trionica.com <====================================================================>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 ASP: The FAQ (Part 1 of 2) From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 20:30:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 14:41:48 -0500 Subject: ASP: The FAQ (Part 1 of 2) From: jpolanik@mindspring.com Awareness during Sleep Paralysis - FAQ Part 1 of 2 0.0 Outline of ASP-FAQ 1.0 ASP and the DHEA/Melatonin Cycle 1.1 Melatonin 1.2 DHEA 1.3 The Dance of Melatonin and DHEA during sleep 1.3.1 Cortical Activation during REM Sleep 1.3.2 Alpha Waves during REM Sleep 1.3.3 Fibromayalgia and the Alpha EEG Anomaly 1.3.4 Chronic Fatigue Syndrome 1.3.5 Melatonin vs SOREMPs 1.3.5.1 Jet Lag 1.3.5.2 Narcolepsy 1.3.6 Melatonin and the Onset of Puberty 1.4 Reasons to Suspect a Relationship Between ASP and AAEs 1.4.1 Similarities in Experiencer Reports of ASP and AAE 1.4.2 Similarities in the Means of Resistance 2.0 Active Responses 2.1 Preventive Measures 2.1.1 Avoid sleeping on your back. 2.1.2 Adjust the DHEA/Melatonin 2.1.2.1 Disclaimer 1 2.1.2.2 Disclaimer 2 2.1.2.3 Adverse Reactions to Melatonin 2.2 Resistance Techniques 2.2.1 The Struggle to Move a Finger 2.2.2 Spiritually Oriented Techniques 2.2.2.1 Calling on a Spiritual Personage 2.2.2.2 Prayer 2.2.2.3 Giving Love 2.3 Participation Techniques 2.3.1 Fariba Bogaran using Relaxation 2.3.2 Stephen LaBerge using Imagination 2.3.3 Sylvan J Muldoon inviting Astral Catalepsy 2.3.4 Sylvan J Muldoon using Guided Imagery ################# 1.0 ASP and the DHEA/Melatonin Cycle ASP or Awareness during Sleep Paralysis refers to the co-presence of a state of consciousness (Awareness) and a physiological state (Sleep). In trying to understand this paradoxical condition, it might be worthwhile to examine the biochemical regulators of these states. 1.1 Melatonin Melatonin is the hormone that regulates the sleeping/waking cycle. It is made in the pineal gland from Serotonin. It is available OTC as a food supplement and is very popular as a sleep aid, no doubt because, unlike sleep aids consisting of artificial chemicals, Melatonin assisted sleep is remarkably like natural sleep. 1.2 DHEA [Information about DHEA is derived from the DHEA Home Page, a powerhouse website maintained by researcher James Michael Howard: http://gator.naples.net/~nfn03605/index.html] DHEA (dehydroepiandrosterone) is a hormone made by the adrenal gland. Howard hypothesizes that DHEA is the molecule that supports consciousness by activating the brain: "In daytime concentrations, DHEA, when acting with specific proteins, is the molecule of consciousness, i.e., activation of the nervous system. During deep sleep, concentrations of DHEA are reduced; only enough DHEA is produced to maintain autonomic functions. Melatonin is the molecule of sleep. Melatonin causes sleep, because it reduces production of DHEA. ... During consciousness, DHEA is used; melatonin increases, but is not released till DHEA levels decline to a low level prior to sleep." 1.3 The Dance of Melatonin and DHEA during sleep Those interested in Awareness during Sleep Paralysis and it's experiential genres such as the Alien Abduction Experience are probably more concerned with the rhythmic interactions between DHEA and Melatonin during sleep. During sleep, reduced nighttime levels of DHEA reciprocate with melatonin to produce either slow-wave sleep (SWS) or rapid eye movement (REM) sleep. These low productions of DHEA are higher during REM sleep, and lower during SWS. As sleep occurs, melatonin is "used up," and DHEA increases. Consequently, the DHEA/Melatonin ratio may explain or be related to several phenomena associated with ASP events. 1.3.1 Cortical Activation during REM Sleep Lucid Dreaming occurs during REM sleep. Indeed, someone who senses the paralysis also associated with REM sleep can transform the experience into a Lucid Dream Experience or an Out-of-Body Experience. Research indicates that the brain is more active during lucid dreams than during nonlucid REM state dreams. And that the body is also more paralyzed during lucid dreams than during nonlucid dreams. 1.3.2 Alpha Waves during REM Sleep Alpha waves are sometimes present during REM sleep. And researchers found that lucidity is associated with high alpha REM sleep. "Arousals from high alpha REM sleep yielded significantly higher lucidity" [Source: Olgivie, Robert D., Hunt, Harry T., Tyson, Paul D., Lucescu, Melodie L., & Jeakins, Daniel B. (1982). Lucid Dreaming and Alpha Activity: A Preliminary Report. Perceptual and MotorSkills, 55, 795-808. at p. 795] Some of these same researchers later attempted to measure the amount of alpha present in nonlucid REM dreams, pre-lucid dreams (those where the dreamer is wondering if he/she is dreaming or not) as well as lucid dreams. The researchers hypothesized that there would be a continuum with pre-lucid dreams showing an amount of alpha activity intermediate between non-lucid and lucid. In fact, prelucid dreams showed the most alpha wave activity. This makes sense if the uncertainty of the prelucid state involves a higher level of cognitive arousal to decide whether it is dreaming or not. Once a decision is made there is less demand for this extra neural activity. [Source: Tyson, Paul D., Olgivie, Robert D. & Hunt, Harry T. (1984). "Lucid, prelucid and nonlucid dreams related to the amount of EEG alpha activity during REM sleep." _Psychophysiology. 21:442-51.] 1.3.3 Fibromayalgia and the Alpha EEG Anomaly Now and then, when a checklist of signs and symptoms is proposed for identifying abductees, fibromyalgia is mentioned as a sign that the subject is an abductee. One symptom of fibromyalgia is a lethargic feeling during the day. The sufferer feels tired for no apparent reason. This is thought to be due to a lack of deep, restorative sleep --- slow wave sleep, Stage IV sleep or Delta sleep. Some people who suffer from fibromyalgia have what is called the 'Alpha-EEG anomaly', or the 'Alpha-Delta anomaly'. This refers to the anomalous presence of alpha EEG waves at a time when only delta waves are expected. This condition could be the result of an imbalance in the DHEA/Melatonin ratio. The anomalous alpha waves could be a result of a relative excess of DHEA. Consequently, we might hypothesize that fibromyalgia (or at least the subset of cases with the Alpha-EEG anomaly) might be treated with Melatonin supplementation. This is exactly what is happening. Doctors have begun prescribing Melatonin, or Melatonin plus an anti-depressant such as amitryptyline, to alleviate the lethargic feelings of fibromyalgia. The Melatonin would help to restore a normal sleep architecture while the amitryptyline assists by reducing REM activity. 1.3.4 Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or CFS is similar in some respects to fibromyalgia. Both conditions produce extreme fatigue. James Michael Howard, the researcher who maintains the DHEA Home Page, theorizes that DHEA supplements will aid CFS sufferers. However, no clinical research is cited. Check the links from the DHEA Home Page at http://gator.naples.net/~nfn03605/index.html 1.3.5 Melatonin vs SOREMPs Normally, a person falling asleep descends into Stage IV or Delta sleep and the first REM state begins about 90 minutes after falling asleep. An anomalous Sleep Onset REM Period is called a SOREMP. An ASP event can occur either while falling asleep or while emerging from sleep. In either case, however, an ASP event would be associated with the REM state. Consequently, ASP events are associated with conditions that produce a higher frequency of SOREMPs. And Melatonin has been tried as a treatment (or, more likely, a self-treatment) for conditions that promote ASP events and/or SOREMPs. 1.3.5.1 Jet Lag One person who began taking melatonin to alleviate jet lag made a serendipitous discovery: "Dear Mr. Polanik, My sister, just like myself, suffers from recurrent isolated sleep paralysis (possibly familial), although my condition is much stronger than hers. As a professional, she travels a lot and takes melatonin regularly to cope with Jet-lag. She noticed that in effect, taking melatonin has, in her case, greatly reduced the frequency of her SP episodes, although maybe not their duration or intensity." [http://bisleep.medsch.ucla.edu/discussions/basic/messages/msgs01602.html] When used to reduce the effects of jet lag, Melatonin probably reduces the number of SOREMPs and, hence, the number of ASP events. 1.3.5.2 Narcolepsy It it may seem paradoxical to take Melatonin, a sleep inducer, for narcolepsy, a disorder of excessive daytime sleepiness, it must be remembered that, when a narcoleptic experiences a daytime sleep attack, it is always an attack of REM sleep, an intrusive SOREMP. Thus, taking Melatonin to reduce the frequency of intrusive SOREMPs may be entirely logical (even though not yet acceptable to the medical profession). Consider this post to the BISleep Forum: "Subject: Could I have narcolepsy? Follow-Up: I think we fall into a very similar category. I experience all of the classic symptoms (I even almost fell in a river once while laughing at a joke because my legs gave out). Anyway, I didn't notice the affects until I was 37-38. I am now 41. My father also has narcolepsy and didn't discover it until he was about 60. His doctor says he has catolepsy, but he also has all of the classic symptoms. Over the last few months I've been looking for ways to reduce the effects. To date I have found the the following works: 1. Discontinue all alcohol consumption. 2. Take Meltatonin at night befor going to sleep. 3. Take DHEA in the morning as soon as you wake up. 4. Get exercise in the morning. The exercise seems to be particularly effective in preventing drowsiness during the day." http://bisleep.medsch.ucla.edu/discussions/open.forum/messages/msgs03094.html 1.3.6 Melatonin and the Onset of Puberty In addition to regulating the daily sleeping/waking cycle, melatonin levels influence the onset of puberty. Babies produce increasing amounts of melatonin until they are about one year old. Then their nocturnal melatonin levels remain steady until just before puberty, when they decline markedly ... Children who are late to enter puberty have been found to have higher levels of melatonin than their peers. Correspondingly, children who enter puberty extremely early (as early as three years of age) may produce only a third as much melatonin as other children their age. [Source:_Melatonin_ by Reiter & Robinson] The connection is a team of researchers lead by Spanos have found that the median age at which a subject's first episode of ASP occurs is 14, shortly after puberty. [Source: Spanos, Nicholas P. (1995). 'The frequency and correlates of sleep paralysis in a university sample'. Journal of Research in Personality. 29:285-305.] 1.4 Reasons to Suspect a Relationship Between ASP and AAEs Briefly, as these points have been elaborated elsewhere: 1.4.1 Similarities in Experiencer Reports of ASP and AAE The reports of ASP experiencers and the reports of Alien Abduction Experiencers show astonishing similarities. In both cases the experience usually begins with the person lying in bed, either on the verge of sleep or emerging from sleep. Experiencers in both cases report being paralyzed and unable to move --- except possibly for the eyes. In Alien Abduction Experiences [AAEs] there is always an encounter with alien beings. The experiencer of Awareness during Sleep Paralysis often senses the presence of an entity in the room and, less often, sees or hears the entity. Each experience is associated with the Out of Body Experience. Abductees often report OBEs before, during or after being abducted. Indeed, some have come to believe that the abduction occurs only on a psychic or spiritual level. ASP experiencers, especially those who learn to relax at the first sign of bodily immobility, can often turn the experience into an OBE. Further discussion of the similarities between OBEs and AAEs may be found at: http://www.winternet.com/~rsp/ufoobe1.html. The resource is an in depth analysis by veteran Out of Body Traveler, Bob Peterson. 1.4.2 Similarities in the Means of Resistance Despite the initial impression of overwhelming technological superiority that abducting aliens convey to Earth born humans, it is surprisingly easy for a determined individual to resist. Interestingly enough, the means of resisting alien abduction are identical to the means of resisting the beings encountered during an episode of Awareness during Sleep Paralysis. This is true even though the latter are likely to be interpreted as spiritual beings such as demons, hags, incubi/succubi, etc., whereas the former are more likely to be interpreted as physical beings from elsewhere in the physical universe. In each case, the experiencer can abort the encounter before the appearance of the intruding entities if he or she can move even the smallest portion of the physical body (not counting the eyes). Experiencers seem to know that if they can move the little finger the experience will terminate and many will instinctively try to do that. Other means of resistance usually involve some spiritual technique: prayer, banishing the entity in the name of a benevolent spiritual personage or invoking the assistance of a benevolent spiritual personage. Active responses to the threat of abduction by alien beings will be discussed more fully in the next section. <============== ASP-FAQ 1/2 Last Updated: 1998/11/01 ===============> (c) Joseph Polanik Permission is hereby given for electronic distribution of intact copies of this document. Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com> Trionic Research Institute http://www.trionica.com <====================================================================>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 ASP: The FAQ (Part 2 of 2) From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 20:31:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:03:55 -0500 Subject: ASP: The FAQ (Part 2 of 2) Awareness during Sleep Paralysis - FAQ Part 2 of 2 0.0 Outline of ASP-FAQ (All Parts) 1.0 ASP and the DHEA/Melatonin Cycle 1.1 Melatonin 1.2 DHEA 1.3 The Dance of Melatonin and DHEA during sleep 1.3.1 Cortical Activation during REM Sleep 1.3.2 Alpha Waves during REM Sleep 1.3.3 Fibromayalgia and the Alpha EEG Anomaly 1.3.4 Chronic Fatigue Syndrome 1.3.5 Melatonin vs SOREMPs 1.3.5.1 Jet Lag 1.3.5.2 Narcolepsy 1.3.6 Melatonin and the Onset of Puberty 1.4 Reasons to Suspect a Relationship Between ASP and AAEs 1.4.1 Similarities in Experiencer Reports of ASP and AAE 1.4.2 Similarities in the Means of Resistance 2.0 Active Responses 2.1 Preventive Measures 2.1.1 Avoid sleeping on your back. 2.1.2 Adjust the DHEA/Melatonin 2.1.2.1 Disclaimer 1 2.1.2.2 Disclaimer 2 2.1.2.3 Adverse Reactions to Melatonin 2.2 Resistance Techniques 2.2.1 The Struggle to Move a Finger 2.2.2 Spiritually Oriented Techniques 2.2.2.1 Calling on a Spiritual Personage 2.2.2.2 Prayer 2.2.2.3 Giving Love 2.3 Participation Techniques 2.3.1 Fariba Bogaran using Relaxation 2.3.2 Stephen LaBerge using Imagination 2.3.3 Sylvan J Muldoon inviting Astral Catalepsy 2.3.4 Sylvan J Muldoon using Guided Imagery ################# 2.0 Active Responses Responsive Techniques may be divided into three general categories: 2.1 Preventive Measures 2.2 Resistance Techniques 2.3 Participation Techniques 2.1 Preventive Measures There are two simple measures that may reduce the frequency of ASP episodes or eliminate them entirely. 2.1.1 Avoid sleeping on your back. It has been known for centuries that the vast majority of ASP episodes occurred in this sleep position. Changing the body's sleep position may reduce the frequency of ASP episodes. However, even if one falls asleep on one's side, there is no guarantee that the body won't change position during the night and end up on its back while waking up. 2.1.2 Adjust the DHEA/Melatonin Based on the material presented above, it may be that some people have an umbalanced DHEA/Melatonin cycle which would respond to supplements or supplements plus prescription medication. 2.1.2.1 Disclaimer 1 Nothing in this article is intended as medical advice. It is presented as information only so that the reader my consult with health care providers and so that the informed reader may respond to attempts by the Federal government to restrict the availability of the supplements discussed. 2.1.2.2 Disclaimer 2 The DHEA/Melatonin cycle is independent of questions as to whether Alien Abductions cause fibromyalgia (in which case supplements may be palliative) or whether fibromyalgia is a necessary precondition for Alien Abduction Experiences (in which case supplements might be preventive). 2.1.2.3 Adverse Reactions to Melatonin Some of those using Melatonin to promote sleep report that it leaves them feeling groggy the next day. This may be dosage related. The natural level of Melatonin in the body is so low that the smallest tablet (200 mcg) is still millions of times stronger. Another possibility is that natural Melatonin production is not stopping soon enough the next day. Melatonin production is turned off by rising light levels. In cases where a person gets up by the clock and not the sun, wears glasses that turn darker in bright light, works indoors or is otherwise not exposed to bright lights early in the day, it may be that Melatonin production continues too long. An extreme case of this phenomenon is Seasonal Affective Disorder, SAD, a depression that recurrs each winter among those who suffer from it. It is especially prevalent in far Northern latitudes and is treated with phototherapy, exposure to bright lights early in the morning. When experimenters gave Melatonin supplements to SAD patients undergoing phototherapy, the effects of the therapy were negated. 2.1.2.4 Interpreting Results Based on the foregoing, it might seem reasonable for those who experience ASP as frightening to try using Melatonin to suppress ASP events. However, experiencer reports thus far show mixed results Part of the difficulty with interpreting results is that while some people take Melatonin to suppress SOREMPs and ASP events associated with them, others take Melatonin in order to promote Lucid Dreaming and/or Out-of-Body Experiencing. These are states of Awareness during Sleep Paralysis that can occur after the phase in which one is directly aware of the bodily immobility --- indeed, some people seek to induce a state of sleep paralysis hoping to become self-aware during the event and to transform the experience into a positive one, a Lucid Dream Experience or Out of Body Experience. Usenet newsgroups alt.dreams.lucid and alt.out-of-body often contain disucssion surrounding successful and unsuccessful attempts to promote LDEs or OBEs with Melatonin. It is possible that Melatonin, because it restores a normal sleep architecture, can *both* suppress SOREMPs and promote an increased frequency of LDEs and OBEs in the last REM periods --- where they are more likely to occurr anyway. It is also possible that reports of ASP/LDE/OBE enhancing effects of Melatonin stem from a REM-rebound effect in sleep deprived people who start taking Melatonin. It would be important, then, to look at long term effects as well the effects of short term use, but there is no systematic information on this. In any event, a relatively new Usenet newsgroup, alt.drugs.melatonin, has started and may provide a resource to those interested in this issue. 2.2 Resistance Techniques To many novice experiencers, the most immediate aspect of Awareness during Sleep Paralysis is the fear that very often accompanies it, particularly in those who do not understand what is happening. Consequently, instinctive, fear-driven responses are very common. The experiencer attempts to end the experience as quickly as possible by whatever means of resistance seem appropriate. 2.2.1 The Struggle to Move a Finger Very often the experiencer struggles to move a finger. Even novice experiencers seem to understanding that, if they can move a finger, even the little finger, the experience will end. From a typical report: "I was having a bad dream and then "woke up" from it only to find that I could not move, but it appeared my eyes were open. I started to float up toward the ceiling and it was the most horrifying thing that I have ever experienced. ... But I could not move, and I could not scream, although I was trying as hard as I could. I finally began to move my fingers and came out of it." Opinions differ as to the wisdom of this type of response. Experiencers: An anonymous contributor to alt.dreams.lucid wrote: "I have experienced sleep paralysis a few times as a teenager, but never thought much of it. When I began trying to learn lucid dreaming last year, occurrences of paralysis increased dramatically. If sleep paralysis scares you, the worst thing you can do is struggle, for it seems to prolong the experience. If you really want to wake up: relax, lie still, and you will eventually wake up or go into a regular lucid or non-lucid dream." A contributor to the ucla sleep forum: "I have found that rather than struggle with the why's and wherefors, it is much more beneficial to my piece of mind to relax and see what I can get out of the experience." Another contributor: "I told myself I was in SP and to relax. ... I began to float and leave my body. ... I don't have SP episode on a regular basis, but I think if you can control it, instead of it controlling you, a person could have some fun." See also Fariba Bogaran's report (below) of an experience in which she realized that her fear was feeding that which frightened her. She then decided to change tactics the next time she experienced ASP. The Experts: Various experts urge experiencers to use this technique (attempting to move a finger). U Montreal Sleep and Dream Lab. [http://www-sca.psy.umontreal.ca/dreams/index.html]: Although the person may feel that they are completely paralyzed, some areas of the body may actually be moved. These include the eyes, tongue, and sometimes the toes or fingers. When experiencing such an episode, one should try to move his or her eyes and attempt to blink. This can be followed by voluntary movements of the tongue and wiggling of the toes. Susan J. Blackmore, noted investigator of the paranormal: Blackmore advises ASP experiencers to relax. But she wryly admits this is not easy when you see 'horrible monsters coming in the door' The next best thing to do is to move a finger or toe. If that is too difficult then try to imagine you can fly and turn the whole thing into a full-blooded out-of-body experience. [Rhetorical Question: Why wouldn't someone who both researches and attempts to incubate Out-of-Body Experiences advise others that the best thing to try first is some means of transforming the experience into an Out-of-Body Experience?] Ann Druffel: Ms Druffel is an Alien Abduction researcher, a counselor to Abductees and co-author (with the late D. Scott Rogo) of The Tujunga Canyon Contacts. Her analysis of the techniques used by those who successfully resisted being abducted indicates that: Resistance techniques apply mainly to cases involving 'bedroom visitors' or grays ... One of these techniques is the 'Mental Struggle' --- to move a finger or a toe!: It works best before abduction is fully under way. The witness is paralyzed and entities are perceived, but the unnatural calm hasn't yet set in. It involves sustained will power while attempting to move a small part of the body, usually a finger or a toe. When the witness makes that slight movement, the paralysis breaks, and the entities vanish. [Druffel, Ann. (1993). "Techniques for Resisting Alien Abduction". FATE. 11:75-85 at 77.] 2.2.2 Spiritually Oriented Techniques 2.2.2.1 Calling on a Spiritual Personage Many experiencers report invoking the name of a spiritual personage for protection against a bedroom visitor. From the reports, it seems that in many cases this was a completely spontaneous effort. Ann Druffel discusses this method in her report on the case of Melissa MacLeod: "... the technique is presented here as a pragmatic resistance method rather than as a religious teaching. Witnesses don't have to be fearless or have strong confidence to use this technique successfully. What they do need is strong faith in a spiritual realm in which spiritual, protecting personages reside. A variety of spiritual personages have been appealed to, including Christ, Mohammed, guardian angels and spiritual guides. During the 70's and 80's, Melissa MacLeod, a Southern California resident, repeatedly experienced terrifying episodes during which invisible forms of considerable weight --- estimated at 50 to 80 pounds --- would jostle her bed or poke her until she awakened, paralyzed. She used mental struggle the first few times, and succeeded in moving a portion of her body, upon which the paralysis and presences would vanish. Melissa has no memories of actual UFO abduction, but she has a prior history of two time lapses or amnesic periods in the 1950's, directly associated with UFO-type phenomena. Generally, the paralytic episodes involved invisible presences, but early one morning in the mid-1980s, she awoke paralyzed and saw a black, hooded figure standing near the side of her bed. In stark terror she instinctively called out mentally to God for help and the creature vanished. As the episodes continued, she appealed directly to the Archangel Michael, for whom she had developed a particular understanding and appreciation. He is regarded in Christian literature as a special protector against dark spirits. Dark spirits remind most people of demons or devils, but Melissa does not feel that the intrusive entities fell into either class. She reasoned that St. Michael could be equally as effective against the unknown entities who were harassing her, and found that mental appeals to him broke her paralysis in a few seconds. She has found a reliable way of breaking the episodes and no longer fears them, even though they still occur once in a while." [Druffel, Ann. (1993). "Techniques for Resisting Alien Abduction". FATE. 11:75-85 at 80] Without knowing more about the other phenomena Melissa experienced, it is difficult to classify the bedroom visitors. Were they aliens, an 'old hag' or simply generic bedroom visitors. The didn't seem like demons, but they were invisible. Because it's hard to be sure what sort of entity afflicted Melissa, it is clear that it is not necessarily important to have a theoretically correct interpretation of events in the heat of the moment. What is needed is the determination to invoke the powers of a spiritual helper. An Ominous, Black Entity is Banished One man described three occasions over a 2 - 3 year period wherein he was visited by "an ominous, black 'entity' which seemed or felt 'demonic' in nature hovering closer and closer and causing me to become more and more fearful. I wanted to get up, talk, etc. but could not." Although the experiencer's interpretation of the event was different from Ms Druffel's interpretation of Melissa's experience, he hit upon the same basic technique. "It then came to my mind how only 'JESUS' could save me. I cannot describe accurately the mind boggling speed at which 'thinking' or saying the name "JESUS" in my mind completely terminated my situation. I describe it like this. As my mind formed the thought of "JESUS's" name the ominous black entity was gone and I was able to move, talk, get up etc." MUFON Researchers Form a Separate Group to Investigate Resistance to Abductions Recently, the possibility of resisting abductions came to the attention of two sober researchers for the Florida MUFON organization. The following comes form a CNI News extract of a Florida Today article. "The similarity between the abduction experience and demonic possession is very, very close," says Joe Jordan, Brevard/Volusia state [section] director for the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON). ... Jordan and his partner, Wes Clark, have begun a research group called CE-4 (close encounters of the fourth kind), dedicated to studying alleged alien abductions. Its 15 members also belong to MUFON, but "nothing we do is necessarily sanctioned by [MUFON leadership]," says Clark, a quality control engineer at Kennedy Space Center. ... Last year he [Jordan] focused on CE-4 research, and encountered a Central Florida abductee whose otherwise-typical experience had one unique aspect: "They had stopped the experience while it was happening. In all the time I've been researching, I'd never heard that before." Jordan and Clark swear they have three verifiable cases in which apparent abduction experiences were halted by believers who called on the name of Jesus. Reshma Kamal Defeats Alien Mindscan with Arabic Religious Phrase while Moving her Eyes Rapidly In his new book, "The Threat", Dr. David M. Jacobs presents the case for his view that the aliens abducting humans are conducting a vast breeding program designed to create a human-alien hybrid race. Of course, the involuntary human participants in this program must be controlled. Dr Jacobs admits that: "Without the ability to manipulate the human brain, the aliens would be unable to control the abductees physically or mentally and the Breeding Program would not be feasible in its present form." Dr. Jacobs postulates that the dreaded 'Mindscan' procedure, a feature of many abductee reports, allows the aliens to control the humans by 'somehow' giving the aliens access to the abductee's optic nerve and those sections of the brain to which it is linked. By exercising this control over the abductee's brain, the aliens acquire the power to make the abductees see, hear or feel whatever illusions the aliens present to them. Notice the paradox? If Dr Jacobs postulates that aliens use this power of illusion to delude abductees selected to participate in the alleged breeding program then nothing in abductee reports may be relied on. But Dr Jacobs relies exclusively on Abductee reports to support his thesis that aliens are conducting a breeding program with abductees who need to be controlled by this power of illusion. Anyway, Dr Jacobs reports one case where the nefarious plans of these high tech mental giants were defeated by means that may be of interest to others: "But another abductee successfully resisted mental engagement. During a recent abduction, Reshama Kamal found that she had more muscle control than usual and she used it to prevent a neural connection. She shifted her eyes back and forth rapidly while reciting an Arabic religious phrase. The first alien tried to lock into her eyes but could not. He diverted her attention by causing a pain in her head, and he threatened not to take her home, but she refused to give in. Another alien took over and increased the threats. Still she refused to stop, although she was getting dizzy moving her eyes back and forth. A third alien tried, and then a fourth. They could not stop her from shifting her eyes. Eventually they gave up and said that they would continue the procedure at the next abduction." [Jacobs, David M. (1998). "The Threat --- The Secret Agenda: What the Aliens Really Want ... And How They Plan to Get It". New York: Simon & Schuster. p. 87] Curiously enough, despite his concerns about the alien's breeding program, Dr. Jacobs didn't say whether the aliens came back for another attempt as they threatened to do, or, if the did, what happened. Neither did he publish the phrase used by Ms Kamal to fend off the aliens. If my theory is correct that Alien Abduction Experiences, AAEs, occur when the brain is in its REM-sleep state and the body is in the corresponding state of REM-state paralysis, but the consciousness is nevertheless aware, then there is no mystery as to why Ms Kamal was able to move her eyes. The eyes are not subject to the paralyzing signal! She might have become conscious of their movements and that may have assisted her, but it would seem that the effectiveness of her resistance came mainly from her recitation of the Arabic religious phrase. 2.2.2.2 Prayer Other experiencers have prayed to be freed of the invisible presence and were 'delivered': "I've had several times when I felt a presence sitting on my bed or holding the covers so tight I couldn't move. It didn't go away until I said a prayer like the Lord's Prayer or said Psalm 21 out loud." Interestingly enough, Ann Druffel mentions prayer as a way to resist alien abductions. She also mentions the techniques of visualizing an Inner Light or amplifying an Inner Sound as ways to resist aliens. 2.2.2.3 Giving Love Andrew Brough is an Australian abductee who maintains a fine website at http://www.cia.com.au/brough where he discusses several techniques he uses for resisting abductions. One involves giving love to the abducting greys. It seems that they can't stand this and flee. Brough describes how he discovered and used this technique at: http://www.cia.com.au/brough/resisting1.html Brough has also used this technique in the dream state. At http://www.cia.com.au/brough/astralgranny.html he describes how he unintentionally killed a grey in a dream and was told by a spiritually supportive figure that he had done well. 2.3 Participation Techniques 2.3.1 Fariba Bogaran (researcher with the Lucidity Institute) "That night while in bed, I felt that I had awakened, but I couldn't move my body. I tried to roll on my side but I felt glued to the bed. I tried to move my hand, but my hands felt stuck on my chest. I yelled very loudly but no sound came out. My fear gradually increased until I got out of breath. I heard a noise, and a creature with no head and no lower body opened the door. I yelled and yelled, but there was no use. The creature came closer and closer and I got more and more frightened. It sat on my legs and held my hands tight, and then it started squeezing my hands and pushing them against my chest. I struggled to get out of this by reaching out to its neck, but it wouldn't allow me to . Finally, I jerked myself out of bed. I awakened from this very frightened and very paranoid. ... This was one of the worst cases of sleep paralysis I had ever experienced. I realized that by getting frightened in the dream, I was creating more frightening experiences. So, I decided that the next time I experienced paralysis, I wanted to relax and see what would happen. About two hours later the same night, the paralysis returned. ... Initially I was a little afraid, but I slowly let go of the fear by breathing and relaxing. I started to feel lighter and lighter in my body. Soon I felt I was sitting in bed, but I could also see my body lying in bed. I knew this was a dream. I stood up and looked out the window. A geyser of colored light particles came through it. I stood there with a sense of awe. I reached out with my hands, wanting to touch the particles. As I moved my hands, the particles became colorless, weightless, and I felt the beauty of their energy all through my body. I awoke with an ecstatic feeling of joy. I felt I had discovered a new way to transform a state which I have always associated with fear to a healing and transformative one." [Bogaran, Fariba. (1990). in 'Questions & Answers'. Nightlight, The Lucidity Institute Newsletter, 2:2 (Spring) at 4 et. seq.] 2.3.2 Stephen LaBerge using Imagination "It was the middle of the night, and I had evidently just awakened from a REM period since I effortlessly recalled a dream. I was lying face down in bed, drowsily reviewing the story of my dream, when suddenly I experienced a very curious sensation of tingling and heaviness in my arms. They became so heavy, in fact, that one of them seemed to melt over the side of the bed! I recognized this distortion of my body image as a sign that I was reentering REM sleep. As I relaxed more deeply, I felt my entire body become paralyzed, although I could still seem to feel its position in bed. I reasoned that this feeling was most likely a memory image and that actual sensory input was cut off just as much as motor output was. I was, in short asleep. At this point, I imagined raising my arm and experienced this imagined movement as if I had separated an equally real arm from the physical one I knew to be paralyzed. Then, with a similar imagined movement, I 'rolled' out of my physical body entirely. I was now, according to my understanding, wholly in a dream body in a dream of my bedroom. The body I had seemed to leave, and which I now dreamed I saw lying on the bed, I quite lucidly realized to be a dream representation of my physical body; indeed, it evaporated as soon as I put my attention elsewhere. From here I flew off into the dawn." [LaBerge, Stephen. (1986). Lucid Dreaming. New York: Ballantine. at 240-1] 2.3.3 Sylvan J Muldoon inviting Astral Catalepsy Calling it 'astral catalepsy', Sylvan Muldoon wrote about ASP --- being "conscious, yet unable to move" --- an experience which he initially found to be an unpleasant one. "I tried to move ... only to find that I was powerless --- as if I adhered to that on which i rested. ... Eventually the feeling of adhesion relaxed but was replaced by another sensation equally unpleasant --- that of floating. ... I was floating! I was floating in the very air rigidly horizontal, a few feet above the bed. ... I was moving toward the ceiling, all the while horizontal and powerless." [Muldoon, Sylvan J. & Carrington, Hereward. (1990) The Projection of the Astral Body. New York: Time-Life Books. at 6.] Soon, however, Muldoon made noticing his own bodily immobility a key to consciously separating from the physical body. He advised the would be Out-of-Body Experiencer: "Watch yourself during the process of going to sleep ... After you have learned to hold consciousness well up into the hypnagogic state, until you actually are enveloped in sleep, then you must go a step further and construct a proper dream to hold in mind, while going to sleep. ... it must be constructed so that the action you go through will correspond to the route taken by the phantom [astral or dream body] when projected." [Muldoon, Sylvan J. & Carrington, Hereward. (1990) The Projection of the Astral Body. New York: Time-Life Books. p. 99.] 2.3.4 Sylvan J Muldoon using Guided Imagery Muldoon then describes his favorite 'dream' [guided imagery exercise] for inducing Out-of-Body Experience. It involves imagining yourself going into an elevator, laying down, riding to the top floor of the building and then getting out and walking around the roof. This is essentially the same technique as use by LaBerge in the example. The principle is that when the physical body is paralyzed, the non-physical body carries out the imagined action. Call the non-physical body what you will, call it a 'dream body', an 'astral body' or use Stephen LaBerge's quaint phrase, the 'out-of-body body'; any number of equally successful guided imagery exercises can be constructed observing this one simple principle. <============== ASP-FAQ 2/2 Last Updated: 1998/11/01 ===============> (c) Joseph Polanik Permission is hereby given for electronic distribution of intact copies of this document. Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com> Trionic Research Institute http://www.trionica.com <====================================================================>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: 'M.E.' & Abductees From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:10:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:06:21 -0500 Subject: Re: 'M.E.' & Abductees >From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:57:14 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'M.E.' & Abductees >[Mialgic Encephalomyelitis? See: > http://freespace.virgin.net/david.axford/me/me.htm > Also known as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome! --ebk] >Max Has fibromyalgia be considered in these studies? Sue Kovios
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: Music & UFOs From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:04:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:17:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Music & UFOs I'm a composer and music critic. I've worked in both classical music and pop. Currently I write about classical music for the Wall Street Journal and teach a graduate course at Juilliard. In the past I've been pop music critic for the Los Angeles Herald-Examiner and music critic and music editor of Entertainment Weekly. As a composer, I just had my first premiere in 16 years -- an orchestral piece played last week by Orchestra X, a new group in Houston. (They didn't play it very well, but that's another story.) Sixteen years ago, I abandoned a composing career that centered on opera -- I wrote four operas, all successfully produced. Now I'm reviving my composing, and I've written some synthesizer pieces as well as the work for Orchestra X. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 SETI Press Conference Wednesday November 4 From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:14:44 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:27:35 -0500 Subject: SETI Press Conference Wednesday November 4 Source: seticontact's site: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/press.html Note! The text says Wednesday November 3, which is wrong. Wednesday is the 4th. Stig ******* Nathan Keyes of the British newspaper, The Sun, has told us he has been sent a press release from the team of scientists working on the SETI signals regarding the exact place and time of Wednesday's press conference: "I was faxed a memo stating that the conference is to be held under the auspices of the International Astronomical Union and the British Astronomical Association, at the Scientific Societies' Lecture Theatre, Savile Row, London on Wednesday November 3rd. Starting at 3:00pm and ending at 6:00pm. Their evidence will be presented in the first hour and it is presumed the questioning will take place during the second and third hours. When asked about the conference the person I spoke to at Effelsberg Observatory was quite abrupt with me and said they would not be sending anyone to London on Wednesday but when pressed admitted that some of the astronomers who have recently used time on their large 100 meter telescope are in fact 'abroad'. I think this evasive answer is very telling. I suppose we shall have to see how this all plays out on Wenesday. Though I am conviced that this is most likely a mistake by astronomers who picked up a satellite or space probe I still will be at the conference on the off chance that I may be wrong and miss out on a very historical event."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 SETI Hoax Timing? From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 22:21:43 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 16:07:05 -0500 Subject: SETI Hoax Timing? Could this explain the timing of an elaborate hoax? http://www.setileague.org/press/pres9810.htm Someone wants to embarrass Dr. SETI? Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of ObergianDebunking From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 01:32:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 16:14:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of ObergianDebunking >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:23:42 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >At times it is wiser to remain silent and be considered a fool >than speak and remove all doubt. > --George Bernard Shaw >Jim Mortellaro wishes he said that! >Jim Mortellaro Jim, Wasn't it Mark Twain who said that? Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: Propasals for M.E /Abduction Scenario From: David Crundall <dec@psychology.nottingham.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:00:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 16:23:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Propasals for M.E /Abduction Scenario Hello Max and list I have lurked here for many months and no doubt will again once I have said my piece, but I have been tempted into the open by Max's suggestions of a study on ME and the abduction scenario. I hope my comments are of some use... >From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:22:15 EST >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Propasals for M.E /Abduction scenario investigation >You may have read my earlier post regarding the above subject >matter? I have now put some thoughts and ideas together, >regarding the full investigation I am soon to start >It has come to light through my own research into the subject of >UFO's and alien abduction, it would appear at first glance that >there may well be a link with "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" >(Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) and the Alien Abduction scenario. >I have been during the course of my work, over the last two >years been I will not use the word working, perhaps being a >friendly ear to an abducte a 32yr old female from the UK. who as >well as having a long history of medical problems has been >diagnosed with M.E. >Even more interesting is that she is a member of an abducte >group who meet once a month, in London, this group has 20 >members who attend regular, these people are a fare cross >section of the populous, who travel from all over the country to >the meetings. <snip> A simple odds ratio on your sample verses the population statistics suggests that your sample of abductees are 233 times more likely to suffer from ME than the general population. This has provided you with a hypothesis that can be statistically tested. I have included some of my suggestions: There is an issue of the level of measurement that you wish to use for this study. The simplest level is to use categorical data - some people have been abducted, others haven't ; some people have been diagnosed with ME, and other haven't. These frequencies lend themselves to the simple Chi Square test where one compares the *expected* frequencies of abductees who suffer from ME against the *observed* frequencies. This would tell you whether your sample (a different sample to the one mentioned already) was stricken with ME significantly more than the rest of the population. Alternatively you may wish to create an ordinal score for one of your variables (or both). This just means turning a yes/no variable into a rating from, say, 1 to 100. If there are other hypotheses that link variables with the abduction scenario (which I'm sure the list could help with) these could included in your questionnaire. Thus I'd envision a questionnaire with a number of hypothesised factors (constructs that the questionnaire is trying to measure). E.g. One fifth of the questions may go toward assessing people's ME rating, while another fifth of the questions may question sleep disorders, and so on. A multiple regression on to a bivariate dependent variable could then tell us which of these variables (ME, sleep disorders etc.) are the best predictor of whether someone has reported an abduction scenario. Scores on the factors could also be compared between a known group of abductees and a control group. Analysis of variance would tell you whether your abductees score more highly on your chosen factors than your control group. This is however a lot of work. Creating a questionnaire just to give a rating of ME would perhaps be best conducted by a clinical psychologist (though any psychologist with knowledge of questionnaire design and access to a medical library could do it). It would be important to conduct a factor analysis on any pilot questionnaire to make sure that it measures your five or so factors independently. Your ME factor would also need to be piloted on a group of ME sufferers plus a control group to make sure it differentiates between them. >I feel that a figure of 500 or a 1000 abducte;s gloabaly would >have to submit data to gauge an acurate study as to whether >there is without doubt a connection between "Myalgic >Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) and alien >abduction. The use of lots of subjects is a two edged sword. In a simple correlation analysis you could prove a significant link between any two variables providing you tested enough people. There is a preliminary analysis called a Power Analysis which can tell you how many subjects you need to test to reveal a significant result (if it is there). >What this possible connection is could be a number of things, >for example. >In the interests of not jumping to conclusions. It could be >that: >1. The abductiuon scenario is a direct sympton and brain >disorder and part of the many parts of "Myalgic >Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) and that all >people who are claiming abduction have this illness, but the >symptons in some abducte's are minute compared to others and >that they do not know that they have the illness. >However if that were the case it would open up the question? >Why do sufferers of "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic >Fatigue Syndrome) all claim to have been abducted by Aliens? >That Alien abduction is yet another sympton to this illness, a >sympton which can manifest its self in the human brain as a >memory, the same memory, This in its self if true, would for me >anyway, be quite an astounding discovery >Or perhaps that "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic Fatigue >Syndrome) Is a direct result of the alleged alien implants, whch >it has been claimed by a large number of abducte's to have been >placed in side of there heads, and in some way be causing the >ilness becuase of the implants interupton by proximity to >certain areas of the brain, causing the brain to send out >incorrect signals to the body and the causem effect of this is >the human body recieving the incorrect information to function >normally, causing the multi faceted symptons of "Myalgic >Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome). >There is even a hypothersis that these aliens are in some way >feeding off the human life force draining energy from the >alleged victim of these abduction's, and the symptons after >these alleged incidents, do bear a striking resembelence to the >symptons of "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic Fatigue >Syndrome). >Or perhaps it is something all together different from the from >above? We will have to wait and see what information if any the >investigation reveals. This design is not an actual experiment where one manipulates the variables. Because of this you could not infer causality even if the results were significant (ie we could not say that ME is a result of an abduction or visa versa). What we could say however is that ME and the abduction scenario are linked. I think this would be a very interesting point to discover and would advance the use of scientific studies in the field of ufology. >Comments and all help in this investigation greatly >appreciated. >Max Burns I hope this helps. Everything I've referred to can be found in your local library or probably on the internet. Dave Crundall
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite! From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:30:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 16:34:33 -0500 Subject: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite! Source: seticontact's website. URL: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/cancelled.html Stig ******* Press Conference slated for Wednesday cancelled, signals a satellite? Paul Dore writes the following: "Monday, the second of November has got to be one of the worst 24 hours I've ever experienced. Here is a brief synopsis of the events that ensued." 6:00am I arrive at work, do some rather routine things and cull overnight data. I have a pretty uneventful day, then around noon I receive a call from the two astronomers stating they would not be at the press conference at that I was 'essentially, on my own.' - 'Fine then.' I replied, and they apologized and hung up. Next my supervisor rings me up to tell me that I was to cease my experiment immediately. This was quite strange because he had been supportive ever since the news broke. As per his request I began the job of taking down the feedhorn and disconnecting the receiver and packing the entire kit up. The rest of the day passed without incident and I began thinking once again if I made a mistake, if I was confused by something earthly or a natural phenomena. I began questioning myself over and over in hopes that I could find something I missed." 7:00pm I arrive home to find three gentlemen in my residence. My wife Helen has the look of sheer terror upon her face. It turns one of the men was from the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) at Cheltenham, the other was from RAF Feltwell and the third from the American National Security Agency. They asked if we could speak in private. I was reluctant but agreed and Helen and the kids left the room. Over the course of nearly two hours they explained to me that what I had discovered was not extra-terrestrial in nature but most definitely interesting. It turns out that what I discovered was in fact a classified intelligence satellite having to do with something known as Project 415. I am being very careful here so as not to violate the security oath they made me sign which states that should I disclose any further detail on this subject I will be subject to prosecution under the terms of the Official Secrets Act. I was told basically that the signals I received were mistaken and that I should not talk about this matter in detail. They gave me a fair amount of information to convince me, again the details I cannot go into but I am satisfied that what I picked up was in fact a secret deep space satellite for purposes of national and international (it seems) security. After the three men were convinced that I believed them they had me sign this legal document that I cited above and left. I watched as two of the men walked down the road one way and the American walk in an opposite direction (presumably to their vehicles). So there you have it and I wish this were not true. I had visions of going down in history as being the first human being to detect signs of other intelligence in the universe and while I found intelligence all right, it certainly wasn't the kind of intelligence I hoped to discover. I am a bit depressed now, though that could have as much to do with the weather. My family and I have decided that I should not purse this line of research any further. Should I ever discovery anything else strange in the course of my work I will be very careful about revealing it. Best Regards, Paul Dore ***Commentary from the webmaster below *** We here have been following this story since it came to our attention long before the mainstream media noticed it. We are rather sorry to see it end this way but wish Paul and his family the best of luck.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: Wanted - FT Sightings Reports From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:10:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:08:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Wanted - FT Sightings Reports >Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 04:56:09 -0500 >From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com> >Subject: Wanted - FT Sightings Reports >To: "updates@globalserve.net" <updates@globalserve.net> The website details for Project FT was listed in error, the correct address is:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tspurrier/tri_test.htm Thanks, Tony
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: UFO Video Technique From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:21:40 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:13:10 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Video Technique Been in NYC last week and just catching up on e-mail. >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:36:12 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO Video Technique <snip> >Actually, the only real danger (if any) would be to the auto >iris and not the CCD it self. Since the auto iris is capable of >closing down completely, if necessary, to compensate for any >increase of light, it places itself in the path of any >concentrated "hot spots" that might occur. Roger, you are totally off base here. The iris diaphragm only adjusts the amount of light which passes through the lens. Since the diaphragm is generally located at the optical center of the lens, the light which passes through it is completely defocused. That would be the coolest place in the lens if you pointed it at the sun. Pointing a video camera at the sun, or having the sun in the frame, can burn a hole in the CCD or CMOS chip. Just like starting a fire with a magnifying glass. That's why users of rangefinder cameras like the Leica M series are warned against pointing their cameras at the sun. This will burn a hole in the shutter. I've patched many a shutter for photographers who forgot this. >Bob Shell might want to weigh in on this (since he has actually >designed lenses), but it is my understanding that the light >collecting on the iris isn't anywhere as concentrated as it >would be on the CCD where the image is really focused to a >pinpoint. However, despite this pinpoint focusing, the intensity >of the image isn't any greater than a pinpoint image from a >Christmas tree light. This is due to the iris, which opens or >closes to keep the exposure falling on the CCD element constant. Nope, completely wrong. The intensity of the light at the CCD or CMOS sensor is directly related to the intensity of the light from the subject. The diaphragm changes this intensity within a set range, but it does not have enough range in most cases to reduce the sun to a safe level of brightness.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Jerome Clark"<jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 98 12:18:57 PST Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:18:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:29:22 -0000 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>Date: 31 October 1998 00:27 >>From: Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug <KONAWS@statoil.com> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:47:38 +0100 >>Subject: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>Hi List, >It seems that a rational position, based upon a technological >investigation, is impossible within Ufology whereby either we >are expected to believe the ravings of idiots re the ETH or the >ravings of right-wing loonies and their fellow travellers via >the "Secret Nazi Technology" adherents. I'm interested to read -- assuming I read correctly (I would be happy to learn otherwise) -- that the ETH is equivalent to eccentric (or worse) musings about secret Nazi technology. I'm also interested to read that its advocates -- all of them, I gather -- are "idiots" given to "ravings." I must say that this sort of rhetorical overkill does not incline me to pay serious attention to whatever else our friend has to tell us here. It would be interesting, of course, to get some names attached to the "idiots." Do they include, for example, James McDonald, Michael Swords, Edward Ashpole, C. G. Jung, Ted Bloecher, Walter Webb, Aime Michel? Just wondering. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: New Roswell Documents? From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 13:59:13 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:23:29 -0500 Subject: Re: New Roswell Documents? Re: New Roswell Documents? >From: Michel M. Deschamps <739411@ican.net> >Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:50:00 -0500 >Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 11:27:52 -0500 >Subject: Re: New Roswell Documents? Previously, Michel wrote: >Don't you know that there contains >a reference to MJ-12 in a Canadian document dubbed "The Smith >Memo"? >MJ-12 is not a made-up story. How do you know that the "Smith Memo" is any more genuine than the "MJ-12 Memo"? >The Canadian Government (or members thereof) do not have the >same motivations as their American counterparts in "creating >fake documents" to confuse the issue. What proof of this do you actually have? All governments, to some degree or another, use misinformation as a technique to herd public opinion in a desired direction. It's too cheap and effective for them to ignore. >I'm not even sure I've >seen proof that the American Government (or members thereof) >have actually engaged in "creating fake documents" just for the >hell of it. You're right. It's never "just for the hell of it". The powers that be are very shrewed. The fact that you jump to such knee jerk reactionism is cause for butt-slappin' all around the intelligence community. You could be their poster child, if you're not careful. >Everything in that Canadian document points in the direction of >MJ-12 as having been, at one point in time, a real group >investigating flying saucers and their technology. Project Blue Book was real. So was Project Grudge. So are the writings of Stan Friedman, Jerome Clarke, Ed Stewart, Robert Todd and a host of other researchers "investigating flying saucers and their technology". The opinions are as polarized as they come. But their simple existence doesn't give any more validity to their beliefs than implying that if MJ-12 existed, then flying saucers must be real. >There are too many details about the links between MJ-12 and >UFO-related matters that click together for it to be just a >simple hoax. Who said it was simple? Seriously, this whole affair reminds me of the Iran Contra doings. A close friend of mine (after the hearings) proclaimed how people like Oliver North and others had learned their lesson regarding illegal activities such as arms for hostages and the like. When I asked how she supported such a claim, she responded,"Well, you sure don't hear anything about clandestine activities in the press, anymore!" What can I say? Do I believe in UFO's? Yes. But I'm also smart enough to know that (in this day and age) if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck that only means it has the basic characteristics of a duck and nothing more. As I've said before, Michel, keep the faith...objectively. Best wishes,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: Sighting In Pretoria, South Africa From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:49:27 -0800 (Eastern standard time) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:29:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Sighting In Pretoria, South Africa >Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 16:10:58 +0200 >From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Sighting in Pretoria, South Africa >To follow on from the Virginia sighting thread: Hi Jakes, The Virginia sighting was positively identified as the MIR space station. MIR can be one of the brightest object in low Earth orbit. >I'm not an astronomers, so please forgive any faux pas... >Friday, 30 October, 19:26 SAST (GMT-2). >Bright, steady light moving S to N, about 70 degrees from >horizon (20 degrees off vertical). Passed just "below" the >"Evening Star" (Venus?). That would put it about vertical to the >Middle East, depending on orbital range? Are there polar >orbiting satellites? <snip> Cosmos 1400 reached an elevation of about 67 degrees above the horizon as seen from Pretoria at 19:25:30 SAST. It was moving from S to N. The brightest "evening star" high in the early evening sky you saw would be the planet Jupiter (not Venus). Cosmos 1400 was estimated to be as bright as some of the fainter stars in the sky (about magnitude 4.1). Cosmos 1400 is only one of many polar (or near polar) orbiting satellites (its orbital inclination is about 81 degrees relative to the equator). Satellites in polar orbits will pass directly over any point on the ground every few orbits as the Earth rotates beneath the orbiting satellite. Nick Balaskas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 -[For The Record]- [canufo] Sighting: 11-02-98, From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:40:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:40:10 -0500 Subject: -[For The Record]- [canufo] Sighting: 11-02-98, :: : To: canufo@egroups.com Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:28:00 -0600 (CST) : Subject: [canufo] Sighting: 2 November 1998, Winnipeg, MB : : I had two calls and word of three other separate witnesses to a bright bolide-like object at about 8:15 pm last night (November 2, 1998). Most witnesses were in the east part of Winnipeg or Transcona and reported seeing a "silver-red" fireball in the SE, heading W. It had a "long bright streak" behind it, but no sparks. However, two witnesses insisted the object *stopped* in mid-flight, remained stationary and then moved away, rather than moving in a regular trajectory. My vote would be for a bolide, but for the odd trajectory. Autostasis? There was a -1 Iridium at 7:35 pm visible in the N. And John Glenn's shuttle is *not* visible from here. Any other sightings reported in Canada last night?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 Re: The Ed Stewart Show From: Jim Mortellaro <smortell@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:21:00 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:42:33 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ed Stewart Show >Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 09:36:27 -0600 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Ed Stewart Show >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Ed Stewart Show >>From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> >>Date: Sat 31 Oct, 1998 12:25 >>>From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >>>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:47:10 +0000 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: The Ed Stewart Show >>>The "UFO problem"? >>>The only "UFO problem" I can see around here is you, Ed. In the >>>final analysis, I'm afraid Jerome Clark is right. You are just a >>>mean spirited old fart ("old fart" are my words, not Jerry's). >>>As best as I can tell, you have little interest in UFOs beyond >>>using the information you collect as bait for some unsuspecting >>>soul that you can verbally attack to make yourself feel better. >>>Personally, I think you owe Stan and the list an apology for >>>such uncivilized behavior. If you can't account for yourself and >>>control your actions, then your precious "archives" are as >>>questionable in content as [they] are in character. >>>I have no use for you. >Careful -- Ed can still be used as a good example of how NOT to >work and play with others <g>. >>>Roger Evans, >>>Houston, Texas >>Roger, Roger that! <g> >>Best wishes, Roger > Ed's Lament. . . >There�s a meanness to Ed Stewart. >All his missives mainly sneers. >I understand that his pronouncements >Are made while sitting on his rear. >Jerry asks the questions. >Stanton does the math. >K-randle may contribute, >But Ed Stewart needs a bath. >Adherence to Ed Stewart >Is to fan dis-info murk. >Mean spirited misdirection -- >Miss the target - mal-alert. >Lehmberg@snowhill.com >-- >Explore the Alien View! >Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! >http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ > ><Updated 12 September> > >"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from >afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the >fundamentalist's stake. Good evening Brothers and Sisters. I am the Right Reverend Dr. Jaime Gesundt. I am pastor of the Second (the first church was torched by a postal worker last year), The Second Church of The Most Favored Customer and discount house of freshly made wines imbued with the spirit of Him. We are located in the Gold Buckle of the Bible Belt, right here in beautiful Downtown Canal Street in the Big City. I have come here in peace, offering you something which will be of great assistance to those who have suffered the slings and arrows of the outrageous Stewart. Brothers and sisters, have you had your face slapped by this man? And have you been told by your pastor to turn the other cheek only to be slapped on the other one? Well, the Right Reverend Doctor Jaime Gesundt has for you, for only $19.95, somethin that HE, told ME, in a dream, will protect you from this onslaught of verbal abuse. HE came to ME last night and said, "Jimmy" (HE calls me Jimmy), HE said, "Jimmy, I have protection for those who have been abused by that Stewart person. Tell your brothers and sisters about it and they will come to you. And so brothers and sisters, I offer this weapon, this Holy Protection to you at a loss. Yes, friends, for only $19.95 (do not send check or money order as HE prefers cash), the Right Reverend will send you your very own Stainless Steel Face Mask. Yes friends, your very own face mask in stainless steel to protect you from the slings and arrows of the Stewart person. Now, it will no longer be necessary to turn the other cheek. Just put this on your kisser and let Stewart give you his best shot. They is just one thing friends and neighbors, this stainless steel mask, only comes, in white. Say alleluia, say Amen. Dr. Jaime Gesundt would like to thank Don Imus for the ideas presented herein. And of course, I want to thank, HIM. Amen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 3 -[For The Record]- [canufo] Sighting: 11-01-98, From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:35:09 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:42:56 -0500 Subject: -[For The Record]- [canufo] Sighting: 11-01-98, <ring> <ring> "<snorgle> Huzzo?" "Hello, I know it's only 8 am on a Sunday morning, but I just saw a UFO and I thought you should know about it." "Hunh?" "It was ten minutes ago, at about ten to eight. It was a bright light in the south, just a light, with no flashing lights or tail or anything." "Grzzangh?" "Oh, yes, the Sun wasn't quite up but the sky was bright. A nice sunrise." "Zunkle drbble?" "No, just me. And I could only see it for a few seconds." "Zanbk yu fr galkingmegh." "Anytime. If I see it again, I'll call you. Thanks for listening!" <click> "Zzzzzzzzzz"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:10:37 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 09:51:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 01:32:57 -0500 >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of ObergianDebunking >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:23:42 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >>At times it is wiser to remain silent and be considered a fool >>than speak and remove all doubt. >> --George Bernard Shaw >>Jim Mortellaro wishes he said that! >>Jim Mortellaro >Jim, >Wasn't it Mark Twain who said that? >Gary Jim, Gary: This is a matter of some ufological import that I'll follow with interest. I said that.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Are you a SETI fan? From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:01:05 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 09:54:02 -0500 Subject: Are you a SETI fan? The electromagnetic search for ET. To ET, electromagnetic signals (radio) may be much like our generation using Indian blanket smoke signals for communication. If the signals disputed lately are not a hoax, if they are genuine signals from 26 light years away, great; then we can send ET notice that we received the signals and they will get our reply in 2024. Maybe they'll answer that, and we'll get acknowledgement in 2050. What the heck, in 52 years we'll have proved something, right? Why search electromagnetically? We have eyewitness testimony from aerospace engineers and aircraft pilots, documented radar reports, photos and video tapes from ordinary citizens, plus samples of glazed earth from alleged landing sites, as evidence of manufactured craft trespassing our airspace, with aeronautical capability unknown to anything made by humans. SETI is a joke, a waste of time, money, and talent. Searching for signs of extraterrestrial intelligence via radio or radio astronomy when evidence is trespassing our skies daily, all over the globe, is not logical. If you get the chance please read, "A Tale of Evidence" at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/5518/nimitz.html Thanks, Doc Barry ~~~~~Get BREAKING news plus UFO/ET news - NOW - click on "What's Up
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com> Date: 03 Oct, 1998, 22:11:00 GMT Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 09:56:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:29:22 -0000 >Oh yes, the Germans had primitive saucers[...] >The "Vril" and "Haunebu" lie is based upon entirely fake >documents often re-produced on Nazi UFO docudramas which talk >about Nazi/ET/Occult links. >It seems that a rational position, based upon a technological >investigation, is impossible within Ufology whereby either we >are expected to believe the ravings of idiots re the ETH or the >ravings of right-wing loonies and their fellow travellers via >the "Secret Nazi Technology" adherents. My Dear Friend, it seems to me as if you are haunted by our German technology of the 30ies and 40ties. I feel a bit amused when I read your words: >[...]Habermohl who subsequently fell into Soviet hands and >was transported with many of his fellow scientists to >facilities in the USSR." [...] >...Dr. Richard Miethe in the USA after the War and his >transportation via 'Paperclip'..." These people didn't "fell in someone's hand" or "haven't been some transport good within any operation" - they simply were prisoners of war and have been a major target of war. In fact, it was a race to become the ruler of the world. Now, who rules the world today? :-)Not the Germans - I presume. My Dear British Colleague, please slow down. We here in Germany, at the roots of your field of interest, have started to investigate our own past. Immediately if we find something of interest (not of polemic)we keep you all informed. Now that we have no Wall anymore and without the ancient failed concept of supporting peoples in Europe, we can go to all the ancient places of interest - again. Be sure, that we will support any research regarding German technology of the 30ties and 40ties and before. We - the "post-war-Germans" - have learned a lot about ourselves - and about others. I followed the threads regarding our German technology of the war time quite a long time and I hesitated very long to come forward with what I am writing now - but for myself I think it is time to say right now: please stop this "Nazi"-naming. Maybe, probably, if possibly, you can customize/adjust yourself to reality/present. Let us here in Germany start to to become equal, let us do our research for our own. Though we know, that many, if not all, documents and other stuff was "transported away" after the war, the places are left here - and in some cases - some people. Maybe you don't know - but the most important man during the 30ties and 40ties in Germany was not Mr. A.H. - it was MR. H. H.. If you know about the "SS", please let me add something else for your understanding: the "SS", beside all the evil which is linked to this organisation, was designed to be an order copying rules (etc. without the christian background)similar to those of the Jesuites, for example. The "SS" was the Order Of the Black Sun. The oath a "SS"-man had to swear was: "Meine Ehre heisst Treue" which is translated: "My Honour is Faithfulness". This means an "SS"-man had to keep silence about secrets up into his grave. This is the reason why so many secrets remain unsolved. Now some things have surfaced regarding German wartime- technology because some "SS"-men have died. Speaking out what they knew while alive might have caused a fatal accident (or something like this)to them - as it is common in every secret order up to date. Right now a videotape has surfaced here with the testimony of a higher ranked "SS"-man. It was released only after his death in the past year... If I would translate this all what this man told in front of the camera, well this would cause a great debate, surely. So why don't we concentrate on the interest of the U.S. Navy in certain expeditions to Antartica? We German resaerchers shall do the best we can to help you to understand what it was all about our state of technology in the late 40ies. I am afraid, this is not unknown to some among the military-industrial-complex in the U.S. or U.K., because they have "transported" away everything of importance in these early days after the end of the war. >The "Vril" and "Haunebu" lie is based upon entirely fake >documents often re-produced on Nazi UFO docudramas which talk >about Nazi/ET/Occult links. Do you know - or do you think so? Auf Wiedersehen! Joachim Koch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: New Roswell Documents? From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:38:33 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:06:03 -0500 Subject: Re: New Roswell Documents? >From: Michel M. Deschamps <739411@ican.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: New Roswell Documents? >Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:50:00 -0500 >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New Roswell Documents? >>Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 05:51:06 -0000 ><snip> >>This Roswell incident has been done to death and relies upon >>nonsense like MJ-12 and now this! Eight crash sites, numerous >>and ever-so convenient new witnesses coming out of the woodwork, >>new books going over the same old ground.....and now some more >>(no doubt highly dubious) "documents". >Look who's talking nonsense! Don't you know that there contains >a reference to MJ-12 in a Canadian document dubbed "The Smith >Memo"? >MJ-12 is not a made-up story. [...] Don't tell me to use Friedman as a reference. I've got "Top Secret/Majic" and it doesn't impress me one little bit. As to 'investigating' flying saucers the US government did a great deal of this from 1948. They were concerned that the Soviet Union had gained a lead in advanced aircraft technologies. But then why I am wasting my time replying to somebody who feels that MJ-12, Berliner and Friedman are excellent source material? Don described jet-powered flying wings built by the Horten brothers as 'gliders' and showed a very limited understanding of their work..... Oh Yes? Fake documents are almost entirely the exclusive work of UFOhoaxers - perhaps encouraged by the odd Doty here and there. His circle of gullible associates seem to have done a good job of spreading the alien lie......Just what do you think AFOSI was up to in the late 1970s/early 1980s?? As to Canada you show a remarkable ignorance of your own technology - didn't you know that AV Roe developed several experimental supersonic disc prototypes in the 1950s? Haven't you heard of 'Project Silver Bug'. Please don't reply that all they came up with was Avrocar - after all, it was your own countrymen that built the AVRO Arrow - the most advanced jet aircraft of the time........ I have access to at least 200 pages of technical documents put together by Canadians in the 1950s relating to their disc technologies. Very much more advanced than you might have hoped. Don't ask for free copies - it'll take us well into next year to fully research these and when we have you'll be the last to know. Check out John Frost and Jim Chamberlain. Visit the site at Malton, Ontario and take some pictures. A little reality might help remove the alien fog..... As to spookery this CIA document in front of me describing the involvement of a 'Paperclip' scientist in a flying saucer hoax must be a mirage..... Tim X
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 The Cancelled Press Conference From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:36:22 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:31:24 -0500 Subject: The Cancelled Press Conference Too bad that Paul Dore was pressured into cancelling Wednesday's press conference. I do believe he honestly reported what transpired. In fact, I feel he's deserving of the highest medal that Full Disclosure can award him for disclosing his findings when he did, for speaking out honestly, and for having the courage to get as far as he did. Although the other confirming radio astonomer or amateur astronomer in Britain will now also have been silenced, one would hope that one of the others in Japan or Germany will get the information out to the news media as best as possible. Does anyone here believe the story that Paul Dore was told by the three agents from the GCHQ, from RAF Farwell and from NSA? If they have a super secret project going with a deep space intelligence satellite, I feel they wouldn't have disclosed even that much about it, and especially its project number (415). And this "satellite" was observed on different times and days as being in the same celestial spot (within the Pegasus constellation), which is above the celestial equator; so it couldn't have been any stationary satellite (isn't this correct, Mark C.?). Paul was told it had something to do with security -- he implied international security -- and what else could that mean but that it's meant to protect earth against aliens? (Spy satellites do better closer in than out in "deep space.") So why would the three wish to give away that much implied information unless they were covering up for something else? The hypothesis that it was a UFO stirring things up becomes even more plausible to me because of this incident, and that's what I conclude is most likely they're covering up. I trust Paul's story of what happened and what he was told far more than I trust the truth of what he was told. At the least, let's hope that some members of official SETI will take notice of this and begin to ponder a bit about what if some of them were to detect any such artificial signal from space. Government agents would very easily be able to talk them into keeping it hushed up for "security" reasons or explained away as being of earthly origin, despite any guidelines they may already have for disclosure.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite! From: Bob Foster <rlfost@campusnet.org> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:34:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:34:45 -0500 Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite! >From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:30:40 +0100 >Subject: Dore: 'SETI' Signals Are From Classified Intelligence Satellite >Press Conference slated for Wednesday cancelled, signals a >satellite? >Paul Dore writes the following: [...] >7:00pm I arrive home to find three gentlemen in my residence. >Over the course of nearly two hours they explained to me that >what I had discovered was not extra-terrestrial in nature but most >definitely interesting. It turns out that what I discovered was >in fact a classified intelligence satellite having to do with >something known as Project 415. I am being very careful here so >as not to violate the security oath they made me sign which >states that should I disclose any further detail on this subject >I will be subject to prosecution under the terms of the Official >Secrets Act. I was told basically that the signals I received >were mistaken and that I should not talk about this matter in >detail. They gave me a fair amount of information to convince >me, again the details I cannot go into but I am satisfied that >what I picked up was in fact a secret deep space satellite for >purposes of national and international (it seems) security. >After the three men were convinced that I believed them they had >me sign this legal document that I cited above and left. . . This may be a naive question, especially as I am not well-versed in British law, but what would the repercussions be if one chose not to sign a 'security oath'? To my way of thinking being forced to sign such a document is the equivalent of being coerced to do something under duress. Damned if you, damned if you don't. Of course, the next question that comes to mind is quite obvious (and I am certain others will see it as well): what is to prevent any intelligence apparatus from using the same tactic to suppress any legitimate discovery of an off-world signal? I now fear for any SETI research. When and if the real thing does arrive, I suspect that the researchers will get a visit from the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: The Ed Stewart Show From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 20:05:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:37:17 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ed Stewart Show >From: Jim Mortellaro <smortell@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:21:00 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Ed Stewart Show >>Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 09:36:27 -0600 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Ed Stewart Show >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Ed Stewart Show >>>From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> >>>Date: Sat 31 Oct, 1998 12:25 >>>>From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >>>>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:47:10 +0000 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>Subject: The Ed Stewart Show <snip> >>>>The "UFO problem"? <snip> >Good evening Brothers and Sisters. <snip> >Brothers and sisters, have you had your face slapped by this >man? And have you been told by your pastor to turn the other >cheek only to be slapped on the other one? >Well, the Right Reverend Doctor Jaime Gesundt has for you, for >only $19.95 <snip> >They is just one thing friends and neighbors, this stainless >steel mask, only comes, in white. >Say alleluia, say Amen. <snip> Advice to save $19.95: It generally takes two to produce a slap: one who gives one, one who receives one. A missing actor in this drama will leave the slapper with only two options: slap himself - very tiresome - or stop this sterile activity (the usual outcome). The slapped will save $19.95 in the process (_never_ talk to anyone who calls you brother and sister - it usually ends up with bother and sinister) and a lot of time. P.S.: Any honest reader following those wise principles should be honest enough to, at least, send me 1% of the time thus saved. BTW, how much do you evaluate your time ?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:51:45 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:40:44 -0500 Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite >From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:30:40 +0100 >Subject: Dore: 'SETI' Signals Are From Classified Intelligence Satellite >Source: seticontact's website. URL: >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/cancelled.html >Stig >******* >Press Conference slated for Wednesday cancelled, signals a >satellite? >Paul Dore writes the following: >"Monday, the second of November has got to be one of the worst >24 hours I've ever experienced. Here is a brief synopsis of the >events that ensued." >6:00am I arrive at work, do some rather routine things and cull >overnight data. I have a pretty uneventful day, then around noon >I receive a call from the two astronomers stating they would not >be at the press conference at that I was 'essentially, on my >own.' - 'Fine then.' I replied, and they apologized and hung up. >Next my supervisor rings me up to tell me that I was to cease my >experiment immediately. This was quite strange because he had >been supportive ever since the news broke. As per his request I >began the job of taking down the feedhorn and disconnecting the >receiver and packing the entire kit up. The rest of the day >passed without incident and I began thinking once again if I >made a mistake, if I was confused by something earthly or a >natural phenomena. I began questioning myself over and over in >hopes that I could find something I missed." >7:00pm I arrive home to find three gentlemen in my residence. My >wife Helen has the look of sheer terror upon her face. It turns >one of the men was from the Government Communications >Headquarters (GCHQ) at Cheltenham, the other was from RAF >Feltwell and the third from the American National Security >Agency. They asked if we could speak in private. I was reluctant >but agreed and Helen and the kids left the room. Over the course >of nearly two hours they explained to me that what I had >discovered was not extra-terrestrial in nature but most >definitely interesting. It turns out that what I discovered was >in fact a classified intelligence satellite having to do with >something known as Project 415. I am being very careful here so >as not to violate the security oath they made me sign which >states that should I disclose any further detail on this subject >I will be subject to prosecution under the terms of the Official >Secrets Act. I was told basically that the signals I received >were mistaken and that I should not talk about this matter in >detail. They gave me a fair amount of information to convince >me, again the details I cannot go into but I am satisfied that >what I picked up was in fact a secret deep space satellite for >purposes of national and international (it seems) security. >After the three men were convinced that I believed them they had >me sign this legal document that I cited above and left. I >watched as two of the men walked down the road one way and the >American walk in an opposite direction (presumably to their >vehicles). >So there you have it and I wish this were not true. I had >visions of going down in history as being the first human being >to detect signs of other intelligence in the universe and while >I found intelligence all right, it certainly wasn't the kind of >intelligence I hoped to discover. I am a bit depressed now, >though that could have as much to do with the weather. My family >and I have decided that I should not purse this line of research >any further. Should I ever discovery anything else strange in >the course of my work I will be very careful about revealing it. >Best Regards, >Paul Dore >***Commentary from the webmaster below *** >We here have been following this story since it came to our attention >long before the mainstream media noticed it. We are rather sorry to see >it end this way but wish Paul and his family the best of luck. And so it goes. To tell you the truth, all of you, during these times, it becomes nearly impossible for me to believe anything I am told, shown or made to touch. I feel that I have been deceived and given a pap from which to suck pap for far too long. It is not that I choose to believe something is true nor is it so that I choose to disbelieve, it is, rather, that I am too pooped and full of pap with which to believe anything. How can one know truth when fed an exclusive diet of falsehood?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: UFO Video Technique From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 22:13:15 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:55:13 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Video Technique >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:21:40 -0500 (EST) >Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:13:10 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Video Technique Previously, I had offered this response to the question of pointing a home video camera at the sun: >>Actually, the only real danger (if any) would be to the auto >>iris and not the CCD it self. Since the auto iris is capable of >>closing down completely, if necessary, to compensate for any >>increase of light, it places itself in the path of any >>concentrated "hot spots" that might occur. Bob's input was: >Roger, you are totally off base here. The iris diaphragm only >adjusts the amount of light which passes through the lens. >Since the diaphragm is generally located at the optical center >of the lens, the light which passes through it is completely >defocused. That would be the coolest place in the lens if you >pointed it at the sun. If you'll again read my post, you'll see that I specifically included the words "if any" regarding danger to the iris. In fact, my reasoning was exactly the same as yours when I wrote: >>Bob Shell might want to weigh in on this (since he has actually >>designed lenses), but it is my understanding that the light >>collecting on the iris isn't anywhere as concentrated as it >>would be on the CCD where the image is really focused to a >>pinpoint. I certainly don't want to get into semantics again, but why you chose to ignore this information, I don't know. Perhaps you were in a hurry to catch up on your reading. Incidently, my understanding is that the nodal point is the optical/mechanical center of a given lens. On zoom lenses for video cameras, there is quite a bit of distance between the nodal point and the iris, so your statement about the iris being at the optical center of the lens certainly doesn't jive with any of the lenses I've used in my video work. Moving on, you offered: >Pointing a video camera at the sun, or having the sun in the >frame, can burn a hole in the CCD or CMOS chip. Just like >starting a fire with a magnifying glass. That's why users of >rangefinder cameras like the Leica M series are warned against >pointing their cameras at the sun. This will burn a hole in the >shutter. I've patched many a shutter for photographers who >forgot this. Frankly, I'm not sure about the relevance of rangefinder type cameras to the problem we're talking about. Are you saying that this is a problem unique to rangefinder cameras? If so, then why would that include home video cameras that are TTL viewing and not rangefinders? On the other hand, if what you say applies to all cameras, then why make a distinction regarding rangefinder cameras? Maybe I'm missing something.... Moving on, I offered: >>However, despite this pinpoint focusing, the intensity >>of the image isn't any greater than a pinpoint image from a >>Christmas tree light. This is due to the iris, which opens or >>closes to keep the exposure falling on the CCD element constant. Bob's responce: >Nope, completely wrong. The intensity of the light at the CCD >or CMOS sensor is directly related to the intensity of the light >from the subject. The diaphragm changes this intensity within a >set range, but it does not have enough range in most cases to >reduce the sun to a safe level of brightness. Well, on the one hand you say I'm completely wrong. On the other hand, you use the term "in most cases" to qualify your position. Aren't you sure? If I was completely wrong, wouldn't it be "in all cases" with no exceptions? Actually, everything you've pointed out is 100% correct as it relates to still camera lenses. However, unlike still cameras, home video CCD cameras (the topic of discussion) are unique in that their iris has the capability to close completely. Why? To automatically prevent the very damage you describe above. Manufacturers are no dummies. I'm not saying that is advisable to point any camera at the sun. Nor do I feel that the results would be worth the risk, even if minimal. However, the "auto iris" circuitry in modern CCD cameras is very responsive. My assertion that the image would be no more intense than a Christmas tree light is based on the fact that anything intense enough to cause damage would make the iris close completely. If any image appeared at all, it would be because the "auto iris" opened only enough to allow for proper exposure of the brightest thing in the frame, namely the sun. The end result would be a small white spot floating in a sea of blackness. That small white spot would be no more intense than a Christmas tree light. Usable? Probably not. Harmful? Not if the "auto iris" circuitry is working correctly. Again, I'm not advocating pointing any camera at the sun. I feel it should be avoided when ever possible. But, as far as home CCD video cameras are concerned, the risk is very minimal, as I understand it, due to "idiot proofing" engineered into them.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: SETI Hoax Timing? From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 21:35:49 PST Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:49:46 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Hoax Timing? >Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 22:21:43 -0800 >From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: SETI Hoax Timing? >Could this explain the timing of an elaborate hoax? >http://www.setileague.org/press/pres9810.htm >Someone wants to embarrass Dr. SETI? >Terry Terry, Or perhaps give him some free publicity? Leanne ];-)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: -[For The Record]- [canufo] Sighting: From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 23:04:12 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:44:26 -0500 Subject: Re: -[For The Record]- [canufo] Sighting: >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >To: canufo@egroups.com >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:28:00 -0600 (CST) >Subject: [canufo] Sighting: 2 November 1998, Winnipeg, MB >I had two calls and word of three other separate witnesses to >a bright bolide-like object at about 8:15 pm last night >(November 2, 1998). Most [...] >There was a -1 Iridium at 7:35 pm visible in the N. And John >Glenn's shuttle is *not* visible from here. Hi Chris, Could you give me and the rest of us an idea in what orbital plane we could expect to see these Iridium sats? How about here
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: Sighting In Pretoria, South Africa From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 07:55:37 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:51:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Sighting In Pretoria, South Africa >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:49:27 -0800 (Eastern standard time) >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Sighting In Pretoria, South Africa Nick, Thanks for the feedback. While I was already pretty sure that the object was man-made, it's nice to know what the thing really was. I'm not that jacked-up when it comes to orbiting objects, and this isn't improved by my limited access to the Internet.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Video Of Cleveland UFOs On-Line From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:06:44 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 15:37:32 -0500 Subject: Video Of Cleveland UFOs On-Line Received via "alt.paranet.ufo" November 4 at 07.04 local time (GMT + 1 hour). I'm giving the exact time, as browsing through newsgroups can be a long and arduous task. Stig ******* Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 05:43:16 GMT From: mainorg@yahoo.com Subject: Cleveland UFO's video! I've finally transferred the videotape of the three 'UFOs' over Cleveland last month, sorry there's no sound, you can also find the transcript on our site if you just must know what the newscaster is saying. Enjoy! The video of the unidentified objects is located in the "Archive" section under "videos" there is also a still shot in our "photo" archive. The video file is quicktime format and zipped; it is just under 5 megs. Thanks! Rev. John Michigan Anomalous Information Network http://members.tripod.com/~mainorg mainorg@yahoo.com -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 When Is A Dore _Not_ A Dore? From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:25:13 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 15:57:44 -0500 Subject: When Is A Dore _Not_ A Dore? Source: alt.ufo.reports, November 3, via Deja News. Unfortunately, the e-mail address of the sender is'nt given. He identifies himself only as 'Paul Dore', which signals that he might be a fake. On the other hand he might want to avoid being flooded with e-mails, cf. The SETI League's Executive Director H. Paul Shuch's statement in the MSNBC news item that I just posted: "Throughout all this, the correspondent has tried to retain his anonymity. Some news media have identified him by name, but such reports could not be confirmed Monday night. Shuch, who said he has been trying to contact the correspondent for days, believes that the identification may be part of a hoax. "I don't know who this alleged person is," he said." URL: http://www.msnbc.com:80/news/211066.asp Stig ******* EQ Pegasi IS a hoax Author:Paul Dore Email: Date:1998/11/03 Forums: alt.ufo.reports If the findings are not a hoax, the engineer's identity most certainly is. My web site contains details of my earlier employment at Siemens Plessey and British Aerospace which were used in reports, it also gives my wife's name which was also used in reports. www.web-computing.demon.co.uk I can categorically state, I know knothing of this EQ Pegasi business. Although I am getting plenty of offers!! I must admit I find it a bit of a laugh how so many people have been taken in. The report has even appeared on the BBC web site. But to repeat the engineer in question is not me..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 "Mitchell On UFO Stories About Astronauts: Pure From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:34:25 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 15:39:08 -0500 Subject: "Mitchell On UFO Stories About Astronauts: Pure [List only] Source: Uri Geller's Weird Web in The Times, November 4. To be admitted to the site, go to http://www.the-times.co.uk/ and register! It's free. Stig ******* =09 Wednesday November 4 1998 =BF=BF=BF INTERFACE Were they lunar aliens, or was it sheer lunacy? Senator John Glenn, the first American astronaut to orbit the Earth, has blasted back into space aboard the shuttle - but could he experience anything as weird as the cigar-shaped UFO he allegedly saw and photographed on his original Mercury flight in 1962? Glenn's incredible picture is reproduced on http://www.anomalous-images.com/astroufo.html where photos and comments about alien craft by 17 US spacemen are logged. The images range from point-like lights captured (supposedly) by Ed White, the first American to walk in space, to fiery clusters of orange, "photographed" during the Gemini 11 space flight on September 13, 1966. Transcripts are also reprinted, including one that, it is claimed, was picked up by VHF radio hams in 1969, monitoring the exchanges which were not broadcast between Neil Armstrong, the first man on the moon, and Mission Control in Houston. Nasa: "What's there? Mission Control calling Apollo 11." Apollo 11: "These babies are huge, sir! Enormous! Oh my God! You wouldn't believe it! I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there,lined up on the far side of the crater edge! They're on the Moon watching us!" And later, during a Nasa symposium, an unnamed professor interviewed Armstrong: Professor: "What really happened out there with Apollo 11?" Armstrong: "It was incredible. Of course we had always known there was a possibility. The fact is, we were warned off! [by the aliens]. There was never any question then of a space station or a moon city." Professor: "How do you mean, "warned off?" Armstrong: "I can't go into details, except to say that their ships were far superior to ours both in size and technology. Boy, were they big! And menacing! No, there is no question of a space station." Can any of this be true? Last week I spoke to Captain Edgar Mitchell of Apollo 14, the sixth man on the moon and a serious scientific investigator of parapsychology. His verdict: "Pure fiction!" He asked me, "Who's to say why anyone would make up any story? I haven't heard these stories before, but they are inventions. We discussed this issue, the other astronauts and I, and they are all pure fiction. We know exactly what goes on, and these claims just are not true." I've known Ed Mitchell a long time, and he is a great hero of mine. His words pose a huge question - why would anyone go to such lengths to invent these tales? Copyright 1998 Times Newspapers Ltd. This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard terms and conditions. To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from The Times, visit the Syndication website.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Is There Evidence Of Life On Mars? From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:51:48 +1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 16:00:58 -0500 Subject: Is There Evidence Of Life On Mars? Keith Basterfield Network Australasia http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetwtkbnetw@fan.net.au ******************************************* Whats ON in Brisbane IS THERE EVIDENCE OF LIFE ON MARS? Queensland Museum Association's Distinguished Speaker Program 1998 Presents Dr Malcolm Walter: Adjunct Professor at Macquarie University and Consultant to NASA. For the past 8 years Dr Walter has been involved with NASA's research programme on the search for fossil life on Mars and his work was the subject of an ABC Quantum programme screened last August. Lecture to be held on 21st November 1998 at 1.30pm Brisbane's Queensland Museum Lecture Theatre. Entrance $5.00 ($3.00 for QMA members) includes afternoon tea Regards Diane
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: Concern Re. General Ramey's Roswell Crash From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:01:04 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 16:31:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Concern Re. General Ramey's Roswell Crash >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 12:02:42 EST >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Concern re General Ramey's Roswell Crash Message >This is a Special Request for assistance with information re the >General Ramey office photos of the Roswell 'flying saucer' crash >taken on July 8, 1947: >There is growing concern that pressure may have been placed by >unknown forces on the University of Texas at Arlington to >suppress distribution of close-up enlargements of the message >held in General Ramey's hand shown in the photos I took of him >in his office at 8th Air Force Headquarters in Fort Worth, >Texas, on July 8, 1947. Since last month I have been attempting >to purchase duplicate negatives of each of the photos and >close-up enlargements of the Ramey Message for use by RPIT >(Roswell Photo Interpretation Team) in its continuing efforts to >completely decipher the message and to better study the >anomalous objects and glyphs previously discovered in the >photos. UTA has refused to provide the duplicate negatives and >has not delivered the Ramey message enlargements. Further, they >have not responded to inquiries as to reasons for delays in >delivering the enlargements, which had been promised within a >week. Hi all: I would like to point out that I have also ordered the photographs in their large size so that I can attempt to verify the information that is being circulated by Dr. Johnson. I would also like to point out that UTA is more than a little annoyed at the rumors about their being pressured by the military or the government, that there was some kind of special exhibit held there, or other tales being told. The people I spoke to, in the last couple of weeks, were very friendly and very helpful. They volunteered the information that there was no exhibit, or that someone had pressured them into withholding the pictures. There has been a delay in getting my new, and larger copies (I have in the past ordered 8x10s) but it is the result of a vacation rather than some nefarious plot. I might also point out that it is obvious from the pictures, that what is on display is, in fact, a weather balloon and rawin target. The balloon, that black lump in the rear, is clearly visible. The aluminum foil target is also quite evident. And we must never forget that General Ramey told Dr. Johnson, that it was a weather balloon, a fact that Dr. Johnson conveniently ignores. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: Are You A SETI Fan? From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 12:09:39 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 16:30:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Are You A SETI Fan? Are you a SETI fan? >From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:01:05 -0700 (MST) >Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 09:54:02 -0500 >Subject: Are you a SETI fan? Previously, Doc Barry opined: >If the signals disputed lately are not a hoax, if they are >genuine signals from 26 light years away, great; then we can >send ET notice that we received the signals and they will get >our reply in 2024. Maybe they'll answer that, and we'll get >acknowledgement in 2050. What the heck, in 52 years we'll have >proved something, right? No disrespect intended, Doc. But are you suggesting that, if the signals are real, that we should NOT reply? >Why search electromagnetically? We have eyewitness testimony >from aerospace engineers and aircraft pilots, documented radar >reports, photos and video tapes from ordinary citizens, plus >samples of glazed earth from alleged landing sites, as evidence >of manufactured craft trespassing our airspace, with >aeronautical capability unknown to anything made by humans. > > >SETI is a joke, a waste of time, money, and talent. Searching >for signs of extraterrestrial intelligence via radio or radio >astronomy when evidence is trespassing our skies daily, all over >the globe, is not logical. If the signals are real, is there a supposition in place that they come from the same ET's that are currently buzzing our air space? If so, why? Do you feel that, in all the galaxy, there is only one race of alien beings that might try to communicate with us? Certainly, if a certain race of aliens is already visiting us then it is unlikely that they would also bother sending us RF transmissions from 26 light years away. On the other hand, 26 light years isn't exactly right next door, as you pointed out above. The belief in other life forms beyond man must include the possibility that there are hundreds, maybe even millions, of types of alien beings in the universe, at different levels of development, and not always aware of what their "neighbors" are doing regarding space exploration. Perhaps there are some that still use RF while others have already perfected warp travel and have stopped by to say hello. Still again, as I pointed out in a previous posting, perhaps the ETs are trying to reach us via RF, not because that's what THEY normaly use, but because they recognize that RF is what WE normally use. To develop this concept further, the RF signals would not need to come from 26 light years away. If the race in question has developed interstellar travel via some kind of fast "warp" drive, might they simply send a probe with the appropriate RF broadcast technology to relay us a message? If we responded, then the probe would receive the message and, just as quickly, return to its point of origin. As fanciful as this might seem, it would certainly reduce the 52 year wait period down to something workable. And how fanciful is it, really? After all, we have the technology to send men to Mars, but we haven't done so due to budget constraints. What did we send instead? A robotic probe. If there's one constant in this universe, it's that everyone works on a budget and there's never enough resources. I'm sure it's the same for ET's everywhere. They're probably shouting, "Show me the money and I'll show you a human!" Perhaps they're just as frustrated as we are..... Later,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: The Cancelled Press Conference From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:52:49 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 16:33:04 -0500 Subject: Re: The Cancelled Press Conference Regarding the supposed NSA "satellite" explanation offered to Paul Dore by the NSA, Jim Deardorff aptly observed: >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:36:22 -0800 (PST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >Subject: The Cancelled Press Conference >Too bad that Paul Dore was pressured into cancelling Wednesday's >press conference. I do believe he honestly reported what >transpired. In fact, I feel he's deserving of the highest medal >that Full Disclosure can award him for disclosing his findings >when he did, for speaking out honestly, and for having the >courage to get as far as he did. >Although the other confirming radio astonomer or amateur >astronomer in Britain will now also have been silenced, one >would hope that one of the others in Japan or Germany will get >the information out to the news media as best as possible. >Does anyone here believe the story that Paul Dore was told by >the three agents from the GCHQ, from RAF Farwell and from NSA? >If they have a super secret project going with a deep space >intelligence satellite, I feel they wouldn't have disclosed even >that much about it, and especially its project number (415). And >this "satellite" was observed on different times and days as >being in the same celestial spot (within the Pegasus >constellation), which is above the celestial equator; so it >couldn't have been any stationary satellite (isn't this correct, >Mark C.?). This is correct as far as I know. Even a geosynchronous earth satellite fixed above the earth's equator (ie, stationary with respect to ground observers) must move across the distant background stars as the earth rotates. I find it hard to conceive of any method of positioning an object in near-earth space so that it appears fixed against the stars over long time intervals. Anything in our solar system must by definition orbit the Sun if not one of the planets, and thus must move against the star background. This motion might be small if the object is very very far out (ie, distances beyond Jupiter or Saturn), but it would still move. And why put an intelligence satellite way out there? I agree with Jim that the NSA "satellite" explanation doesn't hold up, assuming the source really remains fixed against the stars. Of course one way to confirm that would be continued observations by various radio observers. And now that the position info is out, I assume that wouldn't be hard to do. Apparently the signal is within reach of amateur-level equipment. -Brian Cuthbertson amateur astronomer PS: For the record, here's Dore's celestial coordinates of the signal, as reported in UFO Roundup (Volume 3, Number 44, November 2, 1998): Right Ascension: 23 hours 31 minutes 48 seconds Declination: +19 degrees 55 minutes 50 seconds The equinox of this position (which is important) isn't stated. Typically nowadays it would be equinox 2000, but it
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: Are You A SETI Fan? From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:11:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 16:34:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Are You A SETI Fan? >From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:01:05 -0700 (MST) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Are You A SETI Fan? >If you get the chance please read, "A Tale of Evidence" at: >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/5518/nimitz.html >Thanks, Doc >Barry Unfortunately, the text is green on grey in my MS Explorer browser and hence completely unreadable. An adjustment to the background and/or text would be much appreciated!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:13:34 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:41:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website The geocities site that posted Paul Dore's "SETI Signals at 1450Mhz from EQ Pegasi?" has the National Security Agency seal in its place. See... http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/ The pages and files once there have been removed. I have mirrored most of these original pages on UFOSEEK. You may view them at: http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/ (case sensitive) I encourage others to copy them while they are still around (for research), before the pages here also get replaced by the NSA seal. ;>) ---------------------------------------------------------- Greetings from EQ Pegasi: The lighter side... http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/pegasi.htm Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: Music & UFOs From: Gilles Milot <milotg@Magnola.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:19:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:50:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Music & UFOs >Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:39:06 -0800 (PST) >From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com> >Subject: Music & UFOs >To: UFO UpDates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Hi All, >This is purely for self interest. >Over the years of meeting other, UFO researchers I have found >that a lot of them were also musicians like myself. >Just for my interest are there any UFO/Musicians on UpDates? >Short & Sweet as they say. >Regards >Roy.. Hi all ! I used to play drum and bass guitar for many years in my my twentys and my research director is a dawn good guitar player. Let start a band 'The UFO Blues Band' or 'The Grey Philarmonic Music Band' Gilles Milot A.Q.U./Q.A.U.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 13:26:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:51:32 -0500 Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite >From: Bob Foster <rlfost@campusnet.org> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite! >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:34:04 -0500 >>Press Conference slated for Wednesday cancelled, signals a >>satellite? >>Paul Dore writes the following: >[...] >>7:00pm I arrive home to find three gentlemen in my residence. >>Over the course of nearly two hours they explained to me that >>what I had discovered was not extra-terrestrial in nature but most >>definitely interesting. It turns out that what I discovered was >>in fact a classified intelligence satellite having to do with >>something known as Project 415. I am being very careful here so >>as not to violate the security oath they made me sign which >>states that should I disclose any further detail on this subject >>I will be subject to prosecution under the terms of the Official >>Secrets Act. I was told basically that the signals I received >>were mistaken and that I should not talk about this matter in >>detail. They gave me a fair amount of information to convince >>me, again the details I cannot go into but I am satisfied that >>what I picked up was in fact a secret deep space satellite for >>purposes of national and international (it seems) security. >>After the three men were convinced that I believed them they had >This may be a naive question, especially as I am not well-versed >in British law, but what would the repercussions be if one chose >not to sign a 'security oath'? To my way of thinking being >forced to sign such a document is the equivalent of being >coerced to do something under duress. Damned if you, damned if >you don't. >Of course, the next question that comes to mind is quite obvious >(and I am certain others will see it as well): what is to >prevent any intelligence apparatus from using the same tactic to >suppress any legitimate discovery of an off-world signal? I now >fear for any SETI research. When and if the real thing does >arrive, I suspect that the researchers will get a visit from the >same fellows that Mr. Dore did. >Hi Bob, You pose a good question, but we all know that as long as they can keep information from us, they will. I personally think they have covered up so much that they can't stop now. If I were them and had concealed the information they have, I would be afraid to release it too. And we have to remember the private agendas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: New Roswell Documents? From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:39:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:01:25 -0500 Subject: Re: New Roswell Documents? >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: New Roswell Documents? >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:38:33 -0000 >>From: Michel M. Deschamps <739411@ican.net> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: New Roswell Documents? >>Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:50:00 -0500 >>>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New Roswell Documents? >>>Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 05:51:06 -0000 >><snip> >>>This Roswell incident has been done to death and relies upon >>>nonsense like MJ-12 and now this! Eight crash sites, numerous >>>and ever-so convenient new witnesses coming out of the woodwork, >>>new books going over the same old ground.....and now some more >>>(no doubt highly dubious) "documents". >>Look who's talking nonsense! Don't you know that there contains >>a reference to MJ-12 in a Canadian document dubbed "The Smith >>Memo"? >>MJ-12 is not a made-up story. >[...] >Don't tell me to use Friedman as a reference. I've got "Top >Secret/Majic" and it doesn't impress me one little bit. >As to 'investigating' flying saucers the US government did a >great deal of this from 1948. They were concerned that the >Soviet Union had gained a lead in advanced aircraft >technologies. >But then why I am wasting my time replying to somebody who feels >that MJ-12, Berliner and Friedman are excellent source material? >Don described jet-powered flying wings built by the Horten >brothers as 'gliders' and showed a very limited understanding of >their work..... >Oh Yes? Fake documents are almost entirely the exclusive work of >UFOhoaxers - perhaps encouraged by the odd Doty here and there. >His circle of gullible associates seem to have done a good job >of spreading the alien lie......Just what do you think AFOSI was >up to in the late 1970s/early 1980s?? >As to Canada you show a remarkable ignorance of your own >technology - didn't you know that AV Roe developed several >experimental supersonic disc prototypes in the 1950s? Haven't >you heard of 'Project Silver Bug'. Please don't reply that all >they came up with was Avrocar - after all, it was your own >countrymen that built the AVRO Arrow - the most advanced jet >aircraft of the time........ >I have access to at least 200 pages of technical documents put >together by Canadians in the 1950s relating to their disc >technologies. Very much more advanced than you might have hoped. >Don't ask for free copies - it'll take us well into next year to >fully research these and when we have you'll be the last to >know. >Check out John Frost and Jim Chamberlain. Visit the site at >Malton, Ontario and take some pictures. A little reality might >help remove the alien fog..... >As to spookery this CIA document in front of me describing the >involvement of a 'Paperclip' scientist in a flying saucer hoax >must be a mirage..... >Tim X How about a little reality check here. The Smith memo says absolutely nothing about MJ-12, but it does say there is a group working on modus operandi under Vannevar Bush. The Avro Arrow was indeed the most advanced jet aircraft of its time. It was definitely not Saucer shaped. The AVRO Car was. There is an enormous difference between elaborate designs on paper and craft _actually_ built and tested. Thanks for the plug for 'TOP SECRET/MAJIC', Tim. I would have been dismayed indeed had you praised it. Autographed copies available of the hardcover edition from: UFORI, POB 958,Houlton, ME 04730-0958. only $15.US including postage. For Canadians only $20CAD from me at 79 Pembroke Crescent, Fredericton, NB E3B 2V1
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Iridium Observations (was: Re: -[For the Record From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 14:08:36 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:43:35 -0500 Subject: Iridium Observations (was: Re: -[For the Record Don: Iridium flares are rapidly becoming one of the leading explanations for NLs. They are of short to medium duration and literally appear out of nowhere in the night sky, then disappearing completely. There are many Web-based resources which anyone can use to find out if a reported UFO is an Iridium (or any other satellite, for that matter). The most popular one is: http://www2.gsoc.dlr.de/satvis/ From there, you can enter your location data and get a plot or printout of _all_ visible satellites from your location. It's a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 17:32:41 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:56:38 -0500 Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:51:45 EST >Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:40:44 -0500 >Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite >>From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:30:40 +0100 >>Subject: Dore: 'SETI' Signals Are From Classified Intelligence Satellite The Paul Dore story: (in a nutshell) >>"Monday, the second of November has got to be one of the worst >>24 hours I've ever experienced. Here is a brief synopsis of the >>events that ensued." >>6:00am I arrive at work <snip> >>I receive a call from the two astronomers stating they would not >>be at the press conference at that I was 'essentially, on my >>own.' <snip> >>Next my supervisor rings me up to tell me that I was to cease my >>experiment immediately. <snip> >>7:00pm I arrive home to find three gentlemen in my residence. <snip> >>It turns out >>one of the men was from the Government Communications >>Headquarters (GCHQ) at Cheltenham, the other was from RAF >>Feltwell and the third from the American National Security >>Agency. <snip> >>It turns out that what I discovered was >>in fact a classified intelligence satellite having to do with >>something known as Project 415. I am being very careful here so >>as not to violate the security oath they made me sign which >>states that should I disclose any further detail on this subject >>I will be subject to prosecution under the terms of the Official >>Secrets Act. <jumbo snip> To this Jim replied: >How can one know truth when fed an exclusive diet of falsehood? How, indeed? I'm curious how a representative of one country can force a citizen of yet another country to sign anything? I'm not calling Mr. Dore a liar, but he would do himself well by posting a copy of this mysterious document he signed on the internet for all to inspect. With all the confusion regarding MJ-12 and other documents of the past, it would be a welcome sight to find a contemporary real document (if it is) that proves goverment cover-up or repression of knowledge. Of course, it could be that Mr. Dore wasn't given a copy of the document for himself to keep. Who knows? At the risk of repeating myself, I'll relay a musing I had passed onto someone else some time ago: We may have won the cold war, but a far more valuable weapon was lifted from the Soviets and put into production at home. Long after nuclear warfare has become obsolete due to overpopulation and a lack of open space to engage in a limited nuclear exchange, the weapon of choice will still be the old fashioned lie. Disinformation is a powerful and cost effective tool against any society that wants to know the truth. When the lie finally becomes accepted as the truth, and the next generation knows of nothing else, will the technology of deception have reached its zenith. I hope I'm long gone. Later,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Pssst...Get An Ape Suit-Quick! From: John Sauer <johns@johnsauer.com> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 15:12:00 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 21:03:56 -0500 Subject: Pssst...Get An Ape Suit-Quick! This would really work if everyone would do it... Everybody must act quickly !!! This is a secret. Spread this around to everyone except for John Glenn. People get more gullible when they get older. When John Glenn returns from space, everybody dress in Ape Suits. Pass it on.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Wanted: Items From Geocities' Paul Dore Defunct From: Ignatius Graffeo <ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:35:33 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 21:14:54 -0500 Subject: Wanted: Items From Geocities' Paul Dore Defunct I have posted a mirror site at: http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/ A few items are missing... I need the following: 1.) the last "index.html" page that was posted, and the last updates page "latest.html" 2.) Also the page on the Australian hacker "hacked.htm" and any image files there. 3.) Lastly, the small photo of Paul Dore that was on the "identity.html" page. Please check your caches! Send me any or all of the above items if you have them so I can fill in the missing items on the mirror site. Thanks! Ignatius
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: SETI Email From Paul Dore - The Real One? From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:25:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 21:19:32 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Email From Paul Dore - The Real One? Received via the SETI Email Discussion List November 5 at 00.59 local time (GMT + 1 hour). Stig ******* Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 15:33:19 -0800 From: Michael Theroux <theroux@borderlands.com> To: seti@sni.net Subject: SETI Email from Paul Dore -- THE REAL ONE? I received email from Paul Dore: From: paul dore <pdore@web-computing.demon.co.uk> To: "Michael Theroux" <theroux@borderlands.com> Subject: Re: Link down Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:38:51 -0000 The real "Paul Dore" would accept mail to paul_dore@web-computing.demon.co.uk and would not engage in such a hoax. I shall be updating my CV soon ( next 3-4 months !! ) to state that after Siemens Plessey ( which I left 2 1/2 years ago ) I worked at the new Air Traffic Control Centre NERC in Swanwick. I worked there until Feb 1998 and moved to a small software company. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Theroux <theroux@borderlands.com> To: football@web-computing.demon.co.uk <football@web-computing.demon.co.uk> Date: 04 November 1998 22:21 Subject: Link down >>Hi, >>Your sky sports link does not work. Any indication that you >>could give me that you are the real Paul Dore would be >>interesting too as we have been updating our website about >>the SET hoax for some time now. >>Thank you, >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Michael Theroux >>Director >>Borderland Sciences Research Foundation - Since 1945 >>theroux@borderlands.com >>http://www.borderlands.com >>Ph: 707.825.7733 Fax: 707.825.7779 >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:06:18 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 21:44:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists >From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:40:52 +0100 >Subject: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists >"Real science has been jeopardised. It is no longer just a hoax, >it is sabotage of a highly respected grassroots effort. It has >set Seti back a hundred years." Might I take this opportunity to say "WAAH, WAAHHHHH!". Welcome to what ufologists have had to deal with for years. If one little hoax set SETI back a hundred years, then they might as well hang it up now because ufologists are a hundred years ahead of them.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 4 Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 18:31:19 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 21:39:05 -0500 Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:51:45 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite! >>From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:30:40 +0100 >>Subject: Dore: 'SETI' Signals Are From Classified Intelligence Satellite >>Source: seticontact's website. URL: >>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/cancelled.html >>Stig >>******* <snipped current weird, wonderful -- enchanting story> >And so it goes. To tell you the truth, all of you, during these >times, it becomes nearly impossible for me to believe anything I >am told, shown or made to touch. I feel that I have been >deceived and given a pap from which to suck pap for far too >long. It is not that I choose to believe something is true nor >is it so that I choose to disbelieve, it is, rather, that I am >too pooped and full of pap with which to believe anything. >How can one know truth when fed an exclusive diet of falsehood? >These are indeed sad times for those seeking truth. >Jim Mortellaro Great minds think alike <g>. This is exactly what I point out in the commentary of #67, #201, #258, and as late as #273. We're _made_ too pooped to pap, compelled to papping poopdom, and encouraged to ever increasing poops of papped up pooposity.. . not to put too fine a point on it. <g> You map out our tragic ablation with appropriate abundance. Bravo! The next Ode addresses these teasing little whispers from deep, deep space. I've got some thoughts on them. Stay tuna -- UpDates! Lehmberg@snowhill.com ~~ Explore the Alien View! Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ <Updated 12 September> "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 -[For The Record]- P-47: Seti Signal Hoax From: Rod Brock <rodbrock@HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:19:36 PST Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:17:36 -0500 Subject: -[For The Record]- P-47: Seti Signal Hoax Jan Aldrich wrote: >No one seems to analysis the actual stories; >they are too caught up in the sensation to use rational thought. >Instead of a critical examination of the content and >context; an immediate furor ensues and God only help the "Nay >Sayer" as he is brand a "debunker" for life. This Seti example is not strictly "fringe ufological," of course, but the craziness bubbles up from the same wellspring of misguided humanity. Sounds about right. I quietly fumed about this sort of thing for years; more recently I have begun to speak out. And, in fine form, I have been called a liar, a debunker, a "small-minded puppet of the educational establisment," a "killer of truth," a "disinformation agent," a skeptic (uttered with the tone of a four letter word), and, most recently, the "biggest ego I have ever seen." (when you can't win the argument, call them an egomaniac or a skeptic, etc..oldest tactic in the book). The website I have established, www.watchtheskies.org is being developed with a mind to highlighting the sort of thing you speak of above - identifying and critiquing the irrationality, while encouraging rational thinking in ufology. However, of late, it has become abidingly clear to me what a small thing my attempt is in the context of all this madness - just one more voice trying to rise above the din, one faint signal in all that noise. Nevertheless, to quote a song: "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way." How well I take after my forefathers... The kind of thing you speak about, above, Jan. It's more than just a "problem." It's a disease. And it's spreading. Typhoid Mary is out there. This time, however, she can't be quarantined. The best one can hope for is to educate people, and warn them away from her. Cordially, Rod
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: DISPATCH # 108 -- the weekly newsletter of From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:00:39 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:22:46 -0500 Subject: Re: DISPATCH # 108 -- the weekly newsletter of S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 11/03/98 Quote of the Week "This isn't defying death, this is simply common sense and logic.'' --Minnesota Governor-elect Jesse Ventura on his plans for running the state. ----------------------- Rant of the Week: �It's the end of the world as we know it� Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, �Michael� covers a few of the likely causes of the apocalypse as we approach the end of the world (as we know it). Enjoy. "World Financial Collapse This catastrophe needs little or no explanation. The media is full of the news of this crisis. The developed nations of the West have not had to deal with this issue for almost 60 years. When it happens, the panic will be staggering. Cannabalism will be rampant in the land. Mutated Disease Germs Scientists at Rykers Island, just off the shore of Manhattan, have 6000 mutations of TB in their collection. And the strains were found in prisoners awaiting transfer to other prisons in the system. And they ain't got a clue as to how to control these new diseases, these new strains. Dengue Fever is as far north as Houston, TX. Black Plague, Cholera, Bubonic Plague, etc. are all making comebacks. Mad Cow Disease is looking more and more like the offspring of pesticides and not anything from sheep scrapi. The over medicated masses of Amerika cannot fight these things. The scientists themselves say it is impossible. Get ready to burn the bodies. World Terrorism Terrorism is rampant upon the Earth. Terrorism is the doing of the unthinkable. Terrorists don't generally attack armed bases. They go blow up pre- schools. They bring about panic among the populace. They are responsible for the installation of repressive governments pledged to end the horror, but who do not. Thus civil war erupts and the enemy of the terrorists begins killing himself off. How quaint. Widespread Nuclear Proliferation Give an Ape a rock and he will throw it at you. The Apes of the world have the bomb or want the bomb. Either some bastard sold 'em the shit or they're gettin' ready to. It's an accomplished fate of this planet. The delivery systems are all that's needed. And they're gonna get the fucking delivery systems. Don't think for a moment they ain't. I believe it was the Apostle Peter that said this generation was reserved unto fire. He also mentioned something about the earth melting with fervent heat. Sounds nuclear to me! Y2K My ass is getting tired of the Y2K issue. So much has been made of the it. It all boils down to whether or not the infrastructure goes belly up on 1-1-2000 or not. I cannot picture the whole thing going by without a whimper. If there are a billion chips out there and only 1% go wrong and shut down, that leaves 10 million things that ain't gonna work. Mercy. Natural Catastrophes Is the San Andreas fault ever gonna come up with the Big One? And for our friends in the East, how about the New Madrid fault? It went off with enough force in the early 1800's to ring the Liberty Bell in Philidelphia and made the Mississippi River run backwards for a day. And storms, tornados, hurricanes, forest fires, etc. We just watch 'em on TV now. Wait till we are in the middle of it. But please don't think about these catastrophes being coupled with some of the other unpleasant occurances on this page. It might flip you out. Political Unrest Talk about a powder keg! Some smash-yo-mouth Southern fella was touting the new Ballistic Party just today on the 'net. The tensions are so high in this world that the US government is digging in at a ferocious rate. They're 8 stories below New York City right now. And they ain't done digging. I seem to recall a passage of scripture that refers to the caves and dens of the earth. People of power and wherewithal are going underground. Hello? Anybody home? Have you figured it out that the goverment is digging THEIR shelters, but they ain't digging YOURS? Is it because there really ain't any reason to dig the shelters 'cause we really are safe? Hello? Anybody home?" ------ All rants are printed �as is,� with spelling and grammar goofs left uncorrected. Some rants may be edited for brevity or clarity, to the extent such a thing is possible. If you�ve got a rant you�d like to share, send it to pscplady@aol.com with �possible rant� in the subject line of your letter. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up This Week! Catch a number of great stories this week on the ParaScope web and AOL sites, including daily updates to our Conspiracy Newsline and Daily Dose features. Among the articles you'll want to check out: The Paper Trail Cold War Secrecy: A Special Conference Report The Cold War is over, but a new battle has begun. The combatants? Secrecy- minded government officials vs. openness-seeking academics, researchers and citizens. The stakes? Access to the classified records of decades of secret operations -- the raw material of Cold War history. Most importantly, who is winning? To find out, Dossier attended a National Archives conference on "The Power of Free Inquiry and Cold War International History" in Washington, D.C. Attendees included top historians, government archivists and current and former CIA officials. What we saw will inform, excite, encourage and sometimes anger you. Don't miss this eye-witness report on the state of the secrecy debate. ---------------- Area 51 Land Grab Hearings: Voice Your Opinions Everybody's favorite secret base, Area 51, has gobbled up thousands of acres of land over the past decade. Most recently, the Air Force seized 4,000 acres at "Freedom Ridge," an overlook made popular by UFO and conspiracy buffs wanting to get a look at America's most unsecret secret base. This controversial move was obviously motivated by the government's desire to keep civilian observers as far away from Area 51 as possible. Now the USAF has filed papers to extend its occupation of the land through 2001, and public hearings have been scheduled for citizens to express their opinions on the matter. Regardless of your feelings on the UFO question, the military's seizure of public land should always be closely monitored. In this action alert, find out where and when these meetings will be held, and find out where to send written statements if you can't attend. ---------------- UFO Roundup The latest sighting reports and UFOlogy news, courtesy of Joseph Trainor's UFO Roundup. Witnesses hunt for alleged Chupacabra-like creature near Baldim Cave in Brazil; "floating fireball" blamed in fatal fire in northern Brazil; UFO flap heats up in central Italy; crop circle found in Ontario; NASA launches ion-powered probe for asteroid rendezvous; hidden oceans suspected on one of Jupiter's moons; lots more news. ...All this, and much, much more! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 21:45:19 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:39:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: 03 Oct, 1998, 22:11:00 GMT >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:29:22 -0000 >>Oh yes, the Germans had primitive saucers[...] >>The "Vril" and "Haunebu" lie is based upon entirely fake >>documents often re-produced on Nazi UFO docudramas which talk >>+about Nazi/ET/Occult links. >>It seems that a rational position, based upon a technological >>investigation, is impossible within Ufology whereby either we >>are expected to believe the ravings of idiots re the ETH or the >>ravings of right-wing loonies and their fellow travellers via >>the "Secret Nazi Technology" adherents. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- My dear Brother Jochiam... Thank you very much for writing such a elegant reply to the above post. I feel you and your brother and sister German countrymen have much history and future advancments to offer the world at large. I have an article in my possession, entitled: 'The History Of The Flying Discs', A contribution to its possible explanation." It was written by Dr. Eduard Ludwig, Santiago, Chile. Av.Cristobal Colon 1916. This paper starts in 1915 with a history of aviation and discusses the work of Professer Junkers in Dossau, in relation to his work with gas turbine rotary esaust rings. He also talks of Dr Bock, Professor at the Technical Hich School of Berlin, who, as he says "may have been the greatest genius of German Airplaje theoretics..." and later was named "consturctor of the Ministry of German Airways and Director of the German Institute of Airways Research in Berlin-Adlershof." He discusses the work of Frssian Professor Jukowski of Moscow together with his "esteemed teacher, Dr. Kutta from the Technical High School of Stuttgart, Germany," whom he says "developed the theory of airplain-wingbeam." I found the paper interesting, and even though it is dated 1916, I am convinced that it was stating the work was dated from that time through WWII. He says in another part of the paper: "It was principally the Aerodynamic Experimental Institute of the Gottingen University, directed by the renouned Professors Prandtl and Betz, and Constructor Flettner, which drew its conclusions from the theory of the airplane-wing beam. Flattner proved that the conditions of a rotating object are similar to those which appear in a 'translatorichen' movement. Thus was evolved the 'Flattner-Rotor." I realize this is now elementary science, regarding flight, but I find it interesting how so much of the early technology originated in Germany... Finally, he points out that "the missiles of German anti-tank weapons were coated with chemical substances which melted up to 20 cmts of steel plates withing fractions of a second." Finally he concludes with: "The future will show whether the 'Flying Discs' are only the products of imagination or whether they are the results of a far-advanced German science which, possible, as well as the nearly finished atomic bombs, may have fallen into the hands of the Russians." So Joachim...I would be very interested in hearing your take on this ancient historical document...I would also be interested in continuing a discussion, in private, if necessary on the "Order of The Black Sun," and the earlier "Thule <sp> Society," which I suggest that it might have been possible that such people as Nikola Tesla may possibly have participated in the early work they were attempting to do with the "flying discs," before the German Military became involved... Thanks again for the post. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: The Cancelled Press Conference From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:53:57 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:27:03 -0500 Subject: Re: The Cancelled Press Conference >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:36:22 -0800 (PST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >Subject: The Cancelled Press Conference >Too bad that Paul Dore was pressured into cancelling Wednesday's >press conference. I do believe he honestly reported what >transpired. In fact, I feel he's deserving of the highest medal >that Full Disclosure can award him for disclosing his findings >when he did, for speaking out honestly, and for having the >courage to get as far as he did. Jim, Why do you believe and support every UFO hoax that comes hurtling down the cyberspace highway? Having been burned before, wouldn't it behoove you to wait until the facts are revealed before issuing naive pronouncements like the above? And who is this Full Disclosure who is handing out medals anyway? Tell FD I want one! <snip> >Does anyone here believe the story that Paul Dore was told by >the three agents from the GCHQ, from RAF Farwell and from NSA? Er, uh, no, but this begs the question: does anyone believe Paul Dore besides you in the first place? >If they have a super secret project going with a deep space >intelligence satellite, I feel they wouldn't have disclosed even >that much about it, and especially its project number (415). And >this "satellite" was observed on different times and days as >being in the same celestial spot (within the Pegasus >constellation), which is above the celestial equator; so it >couldn't have been any stationary satellite (isn't this correct, >Mark C.?). Paul was told it had something to do with security -- >he implied international security -- and what else could that >mean but that it's meant to protect earth against aliens? (Spy >satellites do better closer in than out in "deep space.") So why >would the three wish to give away that much implied information >unless they were covering up for something else? A correct approach here would be to say that Paul "_said_ he was told," not Paul "_was_ told," unless you know for a fact Paul is who he claims to be, and even then that wouldn't necessarily absolve him of exaggeration, unless you happened to be in the room at the same time as his three alleged interlocutors. >The hypothesis that it was a UFO stirring things up becomes even >more plausible to me because of this incident, and that's what I >conclude is most likely they're covering up. I trust Paul's >story of what happened and what he was told far more than I >trust the truth of what he was told. And that's precisely your problem: Without demanding evidence in the first (never mind the last) place and corroborating evidence in the second place, you simply swallow every Internet UFO story that comes along, the more sensational the merrier, no matter how unsubstantiated or unscientific, which isn't really all that surprising, seeing as how you waved bye-bye to your own scientific background years ago, or whenever it was that you became enamored of Billy Meier. >At the least, let's hope that some members of official SETI will >take notice of this and begin to ponder a bit about what if some >of them were to detect any such artificial signal from space. >Government agents would very easily be able to talk them into >keeping it hushed up for "security" reasons or explained away as >being of earthly origin, despite any guidelines they may already >have for disclosure. >Jim D. Yeah, in your most paranoid dreams! Face it, Jim, the first SETI scientist to confirm an intelligent radio signal from "out there" is assured of the Nobel Prize, not to mention an hour or two live on the Art Bell show, whichever comes first. Except in the fantasy world you live in, there ain't no government agency or agents that will be able to keep same quiet, or that could keep same quiet, even if they wanted to. Meanwhile, the silence you hear resonating from SETI is deafening, and for a very good reason. Meier's Pleiadeseans ain't out there, plead their case long and hard as you will. They didn't die for our collective planetary sins at Roswell, or anywhere else. And they don't have a better mouse trap to offer us. More's the pity, but that's the way it is, November fourth, 1998.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 'Watch The Skies' E-Magazine From: Moderator, UFO UpDates, Toronto Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:41:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:41:33 -0500 Subject: 'Watch The Skies' E-Magazine For those of you who missed this in a previous post: http://www.watchtheskies.org/ its Rod Brock's 'Watch The Skies' E-Magazine site and _well_ worth a visit or three. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:15:20 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:00:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists >From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:06:18 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists (sorry, this is a bit of a rant..) I'm starting to cringe at these messages. Why does their seem to be an almost outright hatred of SETI efforts by the people on this list? SETI isn't some huge monolithic government agency with a hive mind, its individual astronomers dedicating their own precious time and often money to global efforts to actually _do_ something. Should we as a civilisation stop looking just because some people claim to just *know* that ETs are buzzing around in spacecraft..its almost as if (I hesitate to use the term) "true believers" view SETI as a threat encroaching into their "territory" or as a herasy to their faith. Seems to be getting awfully easy for anyone to push people's "oh my, its a conspiracy!" buttons these days. You can use all sorts of dubious methods to make bizarre and outlandish claims, but all is forgiven if you start hinting at opression by vast shadowy powers and and start mentioning agents in black cars etc. Am I the only person who finds Mr Dore's latter tale unbelievable? The supposed GSCHQ & RAF officers broke their own security rules by even mentioning that a secret satellite exists then they helpfully broke them again by giving a project/codeword. Isn't this a little absurd...I suspect Dore is just covering his posteria after making a mistake or playing a prank that went way out of his control..he simply knows what will play well with his "audience" Flame away.. K
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 World Wide Contacts From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:35:48 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:12:04 -0500 Subject: World Wide Contacts Dear Colleagues, I am in the process of updating, our world-wide UFO Group/Researcher contact page, which is inside every issue of our Magazine "Down to Earth". If you or your group would like to appear on this page, so that the public world-wide may be able to contact you direct for UFO reports etc, then please e-mail me on the above address with the following information. 1). Group / Researcher Name: 2). Contact number: E-mail / Phone 3). Contact Address: Full Address & Post code / Zip code 4).Website Address: All information given will be published in our next issue and further issues FREE OF CHARGE! For any Group/Investigator who is holding a meeting or lecture and would like people to know, you can send your flyer to me and any other info at the below address. Please note Down to Earth is available in the shops, so public awareness of you and your group is guaranteed, Down to Earth is also sent around the world to other groups and individuals. For Flyers and Magazine enquiries send to: Roy Hale (ELUFON) 21 Sparrow Green, Bull Lane Dagenham Essex RM10 7EU England All the best Roy..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:46:45 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:14:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website >From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:13:34 EST >Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:41:32 -0500 >Subject: Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website >The geocities site that posted Paul Dore's "SETI Signals at >1450Mhz from EQ Pegasi?" has the National Security Agency seal >in its place. See... >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/ >The pages and files once there have been removed. I have >mirrored most of these original pages on UFOSEEK. You may view >them at: >http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/ >(case sensitive) >I encourage others to copy them while they are still around (for >research), before the pages here also get replaced by the NSA >seal. Dear Mr. Graffeo and List: This Dore affair has degenerated from a possible hoax to a childish prank. Bob Young : ::
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 03:45:56 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:14:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark"<jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Date: Tue, 03 Nov 98 12:18:57 PST >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:29:22 -0000 >>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>>Date: 31 October 1998 00:27 >>>From: Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug <KONAWS@statoil.com> >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:47:38 +0100 >>>Subject: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>>Hi List, >>It seems that a rational position, based upon a technological >>investigation, is impossible within Ufology whereby either we >>are expected to believe the ravings of idiots re the ETH or the >>ravings of right-wing loonies and their fellow travellers via >>the "Secret Nazi Technology" adherents. >I'm interested to read -- assuming I read correctly (I would be >happy to learn otherwise) -- that the ETH is equivalent to >eccentric (or worse) musings about secret Nazi technology. I'm >also interested to read that its advocates -- all of them, I >gather -- are "idiots" given to "ravings." I must say that this >sort of rhetorical overkill does not incline me to pay serious >attention to whatever else our friend has to tell us here. It >would be interesting, of course, to get some names attached to >the "idiots." Do they include, for example, James McDonald, >Michael Swords, Edward Ashpole, C. G. Jung, Ted Bloecher, Walter >Webb, Aime Michel? Just wondering. >Jerry Clark No Jerry, not all of them and you really should listen because the noose is tightening around the neck of those who have promoted the suggestion that discs and triangles are 'ET craft'. Can I explain all UFO sightings? No. Have I ever claimed that "secret technology" could? No. Is there life out there? Probably. Does it land on earth in low aspect ratio craft and flying triangles? No. You want names? How long have you got? I'm not going to post them on 'Updates' but I'll send you a shortlist for starters. It's just not worth it. Just in case you were wondering Jerry I have a copy of your "UFO Book" and I have recommended that listeners to several UK radio shows get hold of a copy. You will no doubt be horrified by my recommendation. I am sending you a copy of my latest report - free. It doesn't cost =A318.99 and is far more interesting than any of the material currently doing the rounds. Tim X
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 00:44:50 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:21:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore >Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:52:49 -0600 (CST) >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: The Cancelled Press Conference <snip> >I agree with Jim that the NSA "satellite" explanation doesn't >hold up, assuming the source really remains fixed against the >stars. Of course one way to confirm that would be continued >observations by various radio observers. And now that the >position info is out, I assume that wouldn't be hard to do. >Apparently the signal is within reach of amateur-level >equipment. >-Brian Cuthbertson amateur astronomer >PS: For the record, here's Dore's celestial coordinates of the >signal, as reported in UFO Roundup (Volume 3, Number 44, >November 2, 1998): >Right Ascension: 23 hours 31 minutes 48 seconds >Declination: +19 degrees 55 minutes 50 seconds >The equinox of this position (which is important) isn't >stated. Typically nowadays it would be equinox 2000, but it >could also be equinox 1950. Dear Brian: 1) In your postscript at bottom, are you referring to the "equinox" 1950/2000 or the epoch? 2) I have received at least one (relayed) message from the "real" Paul Dore claiming no knowledge whatsoever of the entire SETI signal affair. If this is valid, it casts a pall upon the entire affair; since somebody, originally anonymous, would have to have assumed Paul Dore's identity for some goofy reason. The plot thickens and/or sickens. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Are You A SETI Fan? From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 01:11:53 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:33:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Are You A SETI Fan? >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 12:09:39 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Are You A SETI Fan? >Are you a SETI fan? It is often said that transmission of messages by radio must seem hopelessly retrograde to super-advanced societies elsewhere in space. I cannot disagree .. and presume that some such societies would have long since developed more sure, secure and efficient ways to send long-distance messages. BUT! Does that mean that they would abandon radio entirely? I think not. Long before hand signals, semaphore (flags), smoke signals, and whatever else we invented there was simple human speech. Now we send text, sound, pictures and spam effortlessly, with electronic speed. Have we stopped speaking? (verbally that is)? Apparently not. You should here the girls in the lunchroom where I work. How about smoke signals and semaphore? Picture yourself stranded on a deserted island. No radio or telephone, just you and the palms.>How do you get rescued? a) Pile up brush in a huge 'X' or possibly and 'SOS' if you have enough space and materials. This is a sort of visual signal, for the benefit of passing planes. b) Start a fire.>The bigger and smokier the better. Puff it into smoke signals if you can ... another SOS of sorts. c) If and when a boat comes by, wave your shirt back and forth. This makes a dandy flag, or semaphore if you prefer. Jump up and down.>Yell. In short, there may be times, places and conditions where radio transmissions are more appropriate than other means of communication, even for societies that have advanced far beyond their "radio days". Personally, I am a sort of closet SETI fan.>If I were to suggest something to them, it would not be to give up their hard work and go nosing around Roswell, NM. Instead, I would suggest that they consider optical signals, something along the lines of pulsed lasers and the like. This offers far greater bandwidth and selectivity. Of course it is that much harder to detect signals, since the "haystack" is orders of magnitude greater; especially if all wavelengths from infrared to ultraviolet (including visible) light is studied. IF UFOs are visiting this planet, I am confident of one thing: I'm pretty sure they will be signalling one another, and back and forth between smaller and larger craft .. and in both directions between craft and "bases", wherever they may be. Can all of this signals traffic be entirely undetectable? Maybe such signals have already detected, and dismissed as noise. Best wishes - Larry Hatch = = = =
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Hoaxer Shuts Down Fake Paul Dore Website From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 01:38:43 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:58:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Hoaxer Shuts Down Fake Paul Dore Website >From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:13:34 EST >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Hoaxer Shuts Down Fake Paul Dore Website >The geocities site that posted Paul Dore's "SETI Signals at >1450Mhz from EQ Pegasi?" has the National Security Agency seal >in its place. See... >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/ >The pages and files once there have been removed. I have >mirrored most of these original pages on UFOSEEK. You may view >them at: >http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/ >(case sensitive) >I encourage others to copy them while they are still around (for >research), before the pages here also get replaced by the NSA >seal. ;>) >---------------------------------------------------------- >Greetings from EQ Pegasi: The lighter side... >http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/pegasi.htm > >Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News: >UFOSEEK... For the Source! http://www.ufoseek.org Dear Ignatius: It is with the greatest of ease, that a hoaxer like the person who tried to steal Paul Dore's name and identity [ quite clumsily I might add ] could rip off the NSA seal. All one has to do is to visit the NSA website, right-click on their main page ( or whatever page displays this seal. ) and save it as a file. Using any decent HTML editor, you cut and pasted as needed. Then you can graft the image onto any background you choose. Deleting the original pages is a matter of a few keystrokes. Voila! Instant conspiracy!! Have fun! - Larry Hatch = = = = =
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: 'SETI' Signals: Earthlings Say: "Not So Fast" From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:47:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:00:52 -0500 Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals: Earthlings Say: "Not So Fast" [List only] November 4 the Boston Globe updated the news item which I forwarded from the Arizona Daily Star yesterday ("Leading SETI Scientist Dismisses Satellite Story"). URL: http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe/globehtml/308/Earthlings_say__Not_so_fa st.shtml Stig ******* Earthlings say: Not so fast Alien-signal claim is deemed a hoax By David L. Chandler, Globe Staff, 11/04/98 No, ET hasn't called yet. But scientists around the world who work on serious efforts to monitor the skies for possible signals from alien civilizations have spent the past week scrambling to respond to an apparent hoax by someone who is claiming to have picked up such a signal. "It has all the earmarks of a hoax" rather than an honest mistake, said Darren Leigh, a radioastronomer who operates one of the largest such search efforts in the world today, the BETA project (for Billion-channel Extra-Terrestrial Assay) in Harvard, Mass. Nevertheless, Leigh said, the 84-foot dish of the Oak Ridge Observatory's BETA telescope was trained on the region of the sky where the signal had been claimed, just to be sure. And no, there's nothing there. More than 60 other radio dishes, including a large array in Australia and many owned by amateur astronomers who are members of a group called the SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) League, also checked out the claims, and none found any evidence of a real signal, according to the League's director, H. Paul Shuch. The perpetrator made most of his claims anonymously but then was tentatively identified by SETI researchers as an engineer named Paul Dore; an anonymous resume he had posted was identified as Dore's through an on-line search. But Shuch said in an interview yesterday that he had just heard from the real Paul Dore, and is now convinced that he was not the perpetrator. Apparently whoever was playing the hoax had simply used and altered Dore's resume. "He's a decent guy, and he had nothing to do with this," Shuch said. The hoaxer had planned to hold a press conference today in England, but sent out an e-mail message yesterday - signed Paul Dore - calling off the press conference, and saying that the signal was in fact coming from a secret spy satellite. In the message, posted on an Internet site, the hoaxer claims he was visited at home yesterday by British and US intelligence officials, who made him sign a "security oath" forbidding him from revealing details they had shared with him. That story is absurd on its face, Shuch said. Signals from secret spy satellites are routinely picked up by SETI searches, he said, and widely reported as such. Since all such transmissions are presumably highly encrypted, nobody could get any real information this way anyway, and there would be no reason for intelligence officials to be concerned - and they never have been. The hoaxer may have taken his inspiration from some reports in September, written by SETI Foundation astronomer Seth Shostak, that described an observing session at one of the world's most powerful SETI efforts, Project Phoenix. In that Sept. 15 session in Puerto Rico, the astronomers briefly were excited by a possible signal from a star called EQ Pegasi, but after a few minutes of checking it became clear that the signal was just satellite interference. But the same source, EQ Pegasi, was named as the source of the signals picked up by the hoaxer. That in itself is suspicious, Leigh said, because the dish the hoaxer said he was using is not capable of pinpointing locations in the sky to within a circle about six times the diameter of the full moon, and thus could not have specified one star. The radio frequency where the hoaxer said he picked up the signal is one known to SETI searchers as being riddled with interference from satellites and other terrestrial sources. "It's one of the hot spots" that keeps providing false alarms, Leigh said. These can be easily ruled out because the same signal shows up in different directions, picked up by other antennas at the same time, not just at the point in the sky where the telescope is pointing. SETI researchers routinely use such comparisons with antennas pointing in different directions as a way to rule out spurious signals. But could this have been an honest mistake, rather than a deliberate hoax? Most of the astronomers don't think so. Hiding behind anonymity and false identity, as well as clear signs in the claimed data itself clearly indicate a deliberate hoax, the astronomers say. "I'm always willing to give people the benefit of the doubt," Shostak said, "but from the beginning, the indications were that this was deliberate." This story ran on page A03 of the Boston Globe on 11/04/98. =A9Copyright 1998 Globe Newspaper Company. =A9Copyright 1998 Globe Newspaper Company
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Wanted: Items From Geocities' Paul Dore From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 02:09:29 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:10:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Wanted: Items From Geocities' Paul Dore >From: Ignatius Graffeo <ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:35:33 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Wanted: Items From Geocities' Paul Dore Defunct Website >I have posted a mirror site at: >http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/ >A few items are missing... >I need the following: >1.) the last "index.html" page that was posted, and the last >updates page "latest.html" >2.) Also the page on the Australian hacker "hacked.htm" and any >image files there. >3.) Lastly, the small photo of Paul Dore that was on the >"identity.html" page. >Please check your caches! Send me any or all of the above items >if you have them so I can fill in the missing items on the >mirror site. >Thanks! >Ignatius >ufoseek@aol.com Dear Ignatius: I checked out the main page on the phony Dore site. Sure enough, there is the line: >IMG SRC = "nsa.gif" Yes, whoever put up this page ( presumably the fake Paul Dore ) definitedly wanted the NSA seal prominently displayed. The same code-writer also put in the nice pop-up geocities ad! How very like the NSA, putting up nice pop-up ads. Can you imagine the actual NSA slapping their own seal across the front of a web page they wanted to suppress? I hope not, I certainly cannot. If the NSA were to do anything so blatantly illegal, I think they could do it much more effectively by other means. They would never call attention to themselves in the process. For decades they pretended that they did not even exist! The information you seek could be very useful, nonetheless. It might help somebody to track down the imposter, and hopefully determine his or her motives. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists From: Marie Ivey <jmi@aretha.jax.org> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:34:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:12:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists >From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:40:52 +0100 >Subject: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists >"For the past 10 days we have been chasing a ghost," says Dr >Paul Shuch executive director of the Seti (Search for >Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence) League, an international >organisation of amateur ET hunters. >The Seti League has a network of 900 members in 48 countries. >Many of them operate small radio telescopes as part of their >search for alien signals from space. >"None of them has been able to find the claimed signal from EQ >Peg," says Dr Shuch. <snip> >Some of the world's major radio telescopes have also been >looking for the signal with no success. >The Australian compact array telescope, with is 30 times more >powerful than the telescope that found the original signals, has >not found anything. >"We think it may be a satellite," says Ian Morison of Jodrell >Bank. If there was/is a signal from a secret gov't satellite, why haven't all these really big, "major radio telescopes" been able to pick up the signal as well?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Iridium Observations (was: Re: -[For the From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:53:52 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:20:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Iridium Observations (was: Re: -[For the >From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 23:04:12 -0300 >Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:44:26 -0500 >Subject: Re: Iridium Observations (was: Re: -[For the Record ...] >>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >>To: canufo@egroups.com >>Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:28:00 -0600 (CST) >>Subject: Iridium Observations (was: Re: -[For the Record ...] >>I had two calls and word of three other separate witnesses to >>a bright bolide-like object at about 8:15 pm last night >>(November 2, 1998). Most [...] >>There was a -1 Iridium at 7:35 pm visible in the N. And John >>Glenn's shuttle is *not* visible from here >Hi Chris, >Could you give me and the rest of us an idea in what orbital >plane we could expect to see these Iridium sats? How about here >in NS for instance? Dear Don Ledger, Chris and List: Information about the Iridium satellites and their visibility is available from the Visible Satellite Observers' Homepage at: http://www.satellite.eu.org/sat/vsohp/iridium.html "The constellation now consists of 11 sats, plus 1 spare in each of six planes (with exception of PLANES 3 and 5 in which there are presently no spares and Plane 6 which will have three spares for a total of 79 (72 operable) satellites. Each plane is inclined 86.4 degrees to the equator so that they are essentially in a polar orbit." Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Iridium Observations (was: Re: -[For the From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:46:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:22:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Iridium Observations (was: Re: -[For the >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 14:08:36 -0800 >Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:43:35 -0500 >Subject: Iridium Observations (was: Re: -[For the Record]-) >Iridium flares are rapidly becoming one of the leading >explanations for NLs. They are of short to medium duration and >literally appear out of nowhere in the night sky, then >disappearing completely. Hi Chris It's also important to mention that the flares can reach -8 mag which is 50 times brighter than Venus. The recent Walthamstow sightings can be attributed to the Iridium flare as the data was checked and passed onto those concerned via updates. Admittedly the sighting information was inconsistant as the original time given was approx. 6.28pm and then changed to approx. 7.00 pm without explanation. However, the iridium data showed that there was a flare passing in the direction stated during the sighting, and also the satellite type objects seen were indeed satellites. >It's a _must_ for all ufologists investigating cases. Absolutely, but only those prepared to accept that not every strange light in the sky is an extraterrestrial spacecraft.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: World Wide Contacts From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:51:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:23:51 -0500 Subject: Re: World Wide Contacts >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:35:48 -0800 (PST) >From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com> >Subject: World Wide Contacts >To: updates@globalserve.net <snip> >Please note Down to Earth is available in the shops, so public >awareness of you and your group is guaranteed, Down to Earth is >also sent around the world to other groups and individuals. Roy Do you allow advertising in your magazine? If so could you email the prices for a quarter, half and full page ads plus any discounts for multiple issue advertising.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 98 11:16:33 PST Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:25:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 03:45:56 -0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerome Clark"<jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>Date: Tue, 03 Nov 98 12:18:57 PST >>>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>>Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:29:22 -0000 >>>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >>>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>>>Date: 31 October 1998 00:27 >>>>From: Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug <KONAWS@statoil.com> >>>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:47:38 +0100 >>>>Subject: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>>>Hi List, >>>It seems that a rational position, based upon a technological >>>investigation, is impossible within Ufology whereby either we >>>are expected to believe the ravings of idiots re the ETH or the >>>ravings of right-wing loonies and their fellow travellers via >>>the "Secret Nazi Technology" adherents. >>I'm interested to read -- assuming I read correctly (I would be >>happy to learn otherwise) -- that the ETH is equivalent to >>eccentric (or worse) musings about secret Nazi technology. I'm >>also interested to read that its advocates -- all of them, I >>gather -- are "idiots" given to "ravings." I must say that this >>sort of rhetorical overkill does not incline me to pay serious >>attention to whatever else our friend has to tell us here. It >>would be interesting, of course, to get some names attached to >>the "idiots." Do they include, for example, James McDonald, >>Michael Swords, Edward Ashpole, C. G. Jung, Ted Bloecher, Walter >>Webb, Aime Michel? Just wondering. >No Jerry, not all of them and you really should listen because >the noose is tightening around the neck of those who have >promoted the suggestion that discs and triangles are 'ET craft'. Maybe in your dreams, Tim, but not in the real world. I have to say, however, that I find it amusing that at this late stage in the UFO controversy, some earnest soul should revive the hoary old secret-weapon theory. >Can I explain all UFO sightings? No. Have I ever claimed that >"secret technology" could? No. Is there life out there? >Probably. Does it land on earth in low aspect ratio craft and >flying triangles? No. I'm always gratified to meet somebody who knows all the answers. For some reason, though, everybody I meet who has all the answers has a different answer from the last guy who had all the answers. >You want names? Do they include McDonald, Jung, Webb, Davis, Bloecher, et al? >Just in case you were wondering Jerry I have a copy of your "UFO >Book" and I have recommended that listeners to several UK radio >shows get hold of a copy. You will no doubt be horrified by my >recommendation. Not at all. I am happy to hear it, and I appreciate your kindness. I have no doubt that you have something to tell us, including those of us whose views are different from yours, but if you want us to listen, stop calling us idiots and threatening to hang us. >I am sending you a copy of my latest report - free. It doesn't >cost =A318.99 and is far more interesting than any of the material >currently doing the rounds. Thanks. I look forward to reading it. Cheers, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:50:58 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:30:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore Regarding the supposed SETI signal position, Larry Hatch noted ... >Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 00:44:50 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore >>Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:52:49 -0600 (CST) >>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: The Cancelled Press Conference ><snip> >>PS: For the record, here's Dore's celestial coordinates of >>the signal, as reported in UFO Roundup (Volume 3, Number 44, >>November 2, 1998): >>Right Ascension: 23 hours 31 minutes 48 seconds >>Declination: +19 degrees 55 minutes 50 seconds >>The equinox of this position (which is important) isn't >>stated. Typically nowadays it would be equinox 2000, but it >>could also be equinox 1950. >Dear Brian: >1) In your postscript at bottom, are you referring >to the "equinox" 1950/2000 or the epoch? Good question Larry. You must be an amateur astronomer too. Most folks wouldn't know the difference. I intended to say equinox. But I'm not really sure. It would depend, I think, on how the position was originally determined. And since the whole thing is quite possibly a hoax, the position may have been pulled out of a hat anyway :-) >2) I have received at least one (relayed) message >from the "real" Paul Dore claiming no knowledge >whatsoever of the entire SETI signal affair. Yep. It does appear now it was the intent of _somebody_ to confuse the SETI community (and beyond that, apparently discourage/humiliate all those interested in SETI). Whether this was an aberrant individual with a personal agenda, or a more organized group (insert favorite conspiracy theory here) we'll likely never know. >If this is valid, it casts a pall upon the entire affair; >since somebody, originally anonymous, would have >to have assumed Paul Dore's identity for some >goofy reason. The plot thickens and/or sickens. As was noted by some perceptive soul in a previous post, ufology has had to deal with such sideshows for years. I guess it was just a matter of time until the SETI people were invited in too. Welcome to the party, folks. Onward thru the fog,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> Date: Thu 5 Nov, 1998 10:58 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:35:37 -0500 Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite >Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 13:26:06 -0500 >From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite! >You pose a good question, but we all know that as long as they >can keep information from us, they will. I personally think they >have covered up so much that they can't stop now. If I were them >and had concealed the information they have, I would be afraid >to release it too. And we have to remember the private agendas >of many in power. This SETI thing is a hoax, guys! Look at the page. It has the NSA logo on it. Look at the email that says intelligence officials went to his house to tell him the signal was from a spy satellite P-415. Come on, none of this would happen if it was really a signal from a classified program. I think the hoaxer is getting alot of laughing the past week. Maybe even get his chance to talk on the Art Bell show! <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecom Design Lead Mars Surveyor 2001 Program Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: RPIT Roswell Revisitation Report No. 1 From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:21:29 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:44:24 -0500 Subject: Re: RPIT Roswell Revisitation Report No. 1 >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 19:56:51 EST >To: updates@globsalserve.net >Subject: RPIT Roswell Revisitation Report No. 1 > > <snip> >1) There was NO Mogul launch that reasonably could have produced >the kinds of debris seen in the Ramey office photos. >2) The Ramey office photos contain NONE of the items that would >have been found in the wreckage of a Mogul balloon train: sheets >of plain aluminum foil with balsa wood stick frames and all held >together by several hundred feet of string; this all was then >lifted by inflated helium filled neoprene balloons. Neither the >instructions in English included with each Mogul balloon train >nor any other English writings -- or any other known language >writings -- are to be found in the Ramey office photos. I don't expect this to change the mind of anyone who thinks otherwise, but I asked Professor Charles B. Moore, who launched the Mogul balloons, about the pictures taken in Ramey's office. Here's what he had to say: "The debris shown in the photographs that J. Bond Johnson took in General Ramey's office clearly is that of a rawin target similar to those we attached to our balloon trains in June, 1947. "After re-examining the copies of the photographs you sent me and comparing them with the ML-307C target that I have, it still appears to me that the debris in the photographs consisted of more than one target." No English instructions? "No reward notice was found on the recovered material," Moore writes in UFO Crash at Roswell (p. 111). "Our Balloon Group put no return tags or reward notices on our early flights, because we never expected or needed to see them again." Later, on the same page: "Some ufologists have advanced the thesis that because the debris carried no reward tag, it could not be related to weather instruments. However, rather than supporting that thesis, the absence of such a tag is consistent with the idea that the debris was that of Flight #4."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: New Anomalist URL From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:21:32 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:43:59 -0500 Subject: Re: New Anomalist URL Hi, guys (and goils)! The Anomalist has a redesigned web page and a new URL. You can now find us at: http://www.anomalist.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:47:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:50:26 -0500 Subject: Re: >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:46:45 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website >>From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >>Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:13:34 EST >>Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:41:32 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website >>The geocities site that posted Paul Dore's "SETI Signals at >>1450Mhz from EQ Pegasi?" has the National Security Agency seal >>in its place. See... >>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/ >>The pages and files once there have been removed. I have >>mirrored most of these original pages on UFOSEEK. You may view >>them at: >>http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/ >>(case sensitive) >>I encourage others to copy them while they are still around (for >>research), before the pages here also get replaced by the NSA >>seal. >Dear Mr. Graffeo and List: >This Dore affair has degenerated from a possible hoax to a >childish prank. >Bob Young Hi Bob, This is the internet Bob. How do you know that "Mr." Graffeo isn't really "Master" Graffeo? You know, a pimple faced 16 year old mucking about with dad's computer! <VBEG> I once got involved in word war on this list with the webmaster of a well known UFO website. My counterparts' dialog rapidly deteriorated down to a high school locker room level. Upon further investigation I discovered that my rabid opponent was a 17 year old kid! End of debate/discussion! Could be the same thing here. God help us all if this guy is an adult! NSA seal indeed! (Oy vey! Somma dem kiddies needs a goot spankin' on der heiny!) Peace, John Velez ;-) My 'inner child' pulls down his little knickers and shows you his little pink butt while he sticks his tongue out at you and intones, "Myahhh, myah, myah, myah, myahhh!" <G>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Video Of Cleveland UFOs On-Line From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:54:46 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:58:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Video Of Cleveland UFOs On-Line >From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:06:44 +0100 >Subject: Video Of Cleveland UFOs >Received via "alt.paranet.ufo" November 4 at 07.04 local time >(GMT + 1 hour). I'm giving the exact time, as browsing through >newsgroups can be a long and arduous task. >Stig >******* >Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 05:43:16 GMT >From: mainorg@yahoo.com >Subject: Cleveland UFO's video! >I've finally transferred the videotape of the three 'UFOs' over >Cleveland last month, sorry there's no sound, you can also find >the transcript on our site if you just must know what the >newscaster is saying. Enjoy! The video of the unidentified >objects is located in the "Archive" section under "videos" there >is also a still shot in our "photo" archive. The video file is >quicktime format and zipped; it is just under 5 megs. Thanks! >Rev. John >Michigan Anomalous Information Network >http://members.tripod.com/~mainorg >mainorg@yahoo.com >-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- >http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own Hi Stig, Hi All Being that I have a friend in Cleveland I forwarded this to him for his opinion. And this was his reply. The date of the incident was Oct 12th.. which was while I was gone.... however, nobody that I know (who is interested in the subject) is aware of it. Further, the Fox station in Cleveland is WJW TV8, not Channel 2 WJBK. Since channel 3 in Cleveland is occupied by the NBC affiliate, I can't imagine where Channel 2 could be....nowhere within a hundred miles anyway. Since the website says "Michigan", maybe the station is in Detroit. But, a videographer I know at Fox 8 is clueless about the story as well. So, for what its worth, I wouldn't put a lot of weight into this sighting.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: The Cancelled Press Conference From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:58:26 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 17:00:22 -0500 Subject: Re: The Cancelled Press Conference >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:53:57 -0600 (CST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Cancelled Press Conference >Jim, >Why do you believe and support every UFO hoax that comes >hurtling down the cyberspace highway? Dennis, Do keep in mind that when I call something a possibility, that doesn't mean that I "support" it as definitely real. It would be good to keep the alternatives in mind, rather than jumping to black and white conclusions. The human side of the hoax was larger than I had suspected, since it incorporated the whole Paul Dore affair. However I am still open to the possibility that it was all a coverup for UFO radio-signal activity that began at least as early as in September, and was repeated a few other times at various locations as if from a source near EQ Pegasi. It is then entirely possible that certain coverup agents became nervous over the possibility that if the scientific SETI community were to take it seriously, they might be able to deduce that, being a real signal but not from any man-made source or from light years away either one, it must be due to UFO activity. This then could spell an early end for the UFO coverup, if a reputable section of the scientific community were to become alerted. The signal received a couple days ago by the Australian Radio Astronomy Compact Array (I forget its correct title & acronym) could be part of this UFO activity. It came to the attention of Richard Hoagland (reported over the Art Bell program last night) and was not kept secret because the signal was quickly dismissed by astronomers as not having the proper appearance of a signal coming from many light years away. But if such signals were to keep reappearing at various radio telescope sites at various times, some within the SETI community might start to catch on. So all the coverup agents needed to do was create a hoax regarding signals received from the EQ Pegasi direction, which would quickly be seen to be a hoax. Thereafter no reputable scientist would dare treat any ET (UFO) signals from the EQ Pegasi direction seriously, for fear of ridicule, and scarcely any of the news media would dare touch it either if further observations of it by radio-astronomy amateurs were to occur. This then would be a combined UFO-human hoax, initiated by the UFOI and then augmented by anonymous undercover agents in order to cover up its UFO aspects. It would then be very reminiscent of the Doug & Dave crop-circle incident which successfully turned off the news media to the non-hoax reality of most crop formations, and to the connections between crop-circle formations and UFO appearances. It's deplorable that even some ufologists fell for the Doug & Dave explanation, due to fear of receiving ridicule otherwise. I did notice one slightly promising item regarding the affair within one of the statements from radio astronomers on the Internet today, I believe it was from Frank Drake. He at least had the curiosity to wonder why someone would go to the trouble
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 -[For The Record]- (SW Discuss) Art Bell Last Night From: Neal Furgurson <nfurgurs@hsc.vcu.edu> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:48:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:34:02 -0500 Subject: -[For The Record]- (SW Discuss) Art Bell Last Night Skywatch is not responsible for the content or misuse of this list. ******** Hoagland is pretty whacky sometimes... but... The discussion of "project 415" struck a chord with me, but I couldn't exactly place it. Then I remembered an article I had read from Filer's Files a week ago or so, concerning "Echelon", a joint NSA and British eavesdropping project. Sounds like the possibly the same project as "415" talked about last night. Hmmm... who knows? Here's an excerpt from Filer's Files #42 (10/27/98): NSA SPY SYSTEM ECHELON Niall McKay writes: If the European Parliament has its way, the lid is about to come off what is reputedly one of the most powerful, secretive, and extensive spy networks in history -- if, in fact, it really exists. This month, Europe's governing body will commission a full report into the workings of Echelon, a global network of highly sensitive listening posts operated in part by America's most clandestine intelligence organization, the National Security Agency. "Frankly, the only people who have any doubt about the existence of Echelon are in the United States," said Glyn Ford, a British member of the European Parliament and a director of Scientific and Technical Options Assessment, or STOA, a technology advisory committee to the parliament. Echelon is reportedly able to intercept, record, and translate any electronic communication -- telephone, data, cellular, fax, e-mail, telex -- sent anywhere in the world. The parliamentary report will focus on concerns that the system has expanded and is now zeroed in on the secrets of European companies and elected officials. The parliament is alarmed at reports of Echelon's impressive capabilities, and during a debate on 19 September, the European Union called for accountability. The parliament stressed that the NSA and the Government Communications Headquarters, which jointly operate Echelon, must adopt measures to guard against the system's abuse. International cooperation on law enforcement is important, Ford said, but there are limits. "We want to establish a code of conduct for the systems to protect EU citizens and governments." Across the Atlantic, Patrick Poole, deputy director for the Free Congress Foundation, a conservative Washington think tank, is preparing a report on Echelon to present to Republican members of Congress. "I believe it's time we start to bring this matter to our elected officials," he said. Poole and Ford have their work cut out for them: Neither Britain nor the United States will admit that Echelon even exists. An article called Eavesdropping on Europe. 9/30/98. Thanks to Bob Shell. ======================================================== Any thoughts? -- --------------==============<<<<<<<*>>>>>>>==============------------- If it seems weird to you... think what it looks like to NORMAL people! Neal Furgurson - nfurgurs@hsc.vcu.edu Visit the DirtBall website: http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/2130 *************************** SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC. (A Non-Profit Organization)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 5 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:12:11 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:46:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Date: 04 November 1998 14:56 >From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: 03 Oct, 1998, 22:11:00 GMT >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:29:22 -0000 >>Oh yes, the Germans had primitive saucers[...] >>The "Vril" and "Haunebu" lie is based upon entirely fake >>documents often re-produced on Nazi UFO docudramas which talk >>about Nazi/ET/Occult links. >>It seems that a rational position, based upon a technological >>investigation, is impossible within Ufology whereby either we >>are expected to believe the ravings of idiots re the ETH or the >>ravings of right-wing loonies and their fellow travellers via >>the "Secret Nazi Technology" adherents. >My Dear Friend, >it seems to me as if you are haunted by our German technology >of the 30ies and 40ties. >I feel a bit amused when I read your words: >>[...]Habermohl who subsequently fell into Soviet hands and >>was transported with many of his fellow scientists to >>facilities in the USSR." >[...] >>...Dr. Richard Miethe in the USA after the War and his >>transportation via 'Paperclip'..." >These people didn't "fell in someone's hand" or "haven't been >some transport good within any operation" - they simply were >prisoners of war and have been a major target of war. In fact, >it was a race to become the ruler of the world. >Now, who rules the world today? :-)Not the Germans - I presume. >My Dear British Colleague, please slow down. We here in Germany, >at the roots of your field of interest, have started to >investigate our own past. Immediately if we find something of >interest (not of polemic)we keep you all informed. >Now that we have no Wall anymore and without the ancient failed >concept of supporting peoples in Europe, we can go to all the >ancient places of interest - again. Be sure, that we will >support any research regarding German technology of the 30ties >and 40ties and before. >We - the "post-war-Germans" - have learned a lot about ourselves >- and about others. >I followed the threads regarding our German technology of the >war time quite a long time and I hesitated very long to come >forward with what I am writing now - but for myself I think it >is time to say right now: please stop this "Nazi"-naming. Maybe, >probably, if possibly, you can customize/adjust yourself to >reality/present. >Let us here in Germany start to to become equal, let us do our >research for our own. Though we know, that many, if not all, >documents and other stuff was "transported away" after the war, >the places are left here - and in some cases - some people. >Maybe you don't know - but the most important man during the >30ties and 40ties in Germany was not Mr. A.H. - it was MR. H. >H.. If you know about the "SS", please let me add something else >for your understanding: the "SS", beside all the evil which is >linked to this organisation, was designed to be an order copying >rules (etc. without the christian background)similar to those of >the Jesuites, for example. The "SS" was the Order Of the Black >Sun. >The oath a "SS"-man had to swear was: "Meine Ehre heisst Treue" >which is translated: "My Honour is Faithfulness". >This means an "SS"-man had to keep silence about secrets up into >his grave. This is the reason why so many secrets remain >unsolved. >Now some things have surfaced regarding German wartime- >technology because some "SS"-men have died. Speaking out what >they knew while alive might have caused a fatal accident (or >something like this)to them - as it is common in every secret >order up to date. >Right now a videotape has surfaced here with the testimony of a >higher ranked "SS"-man. It was released only after his death in >the past year... >If I would translate this all what this man told in front of the >camera, well this would cause a great debate, surely. >So why don't we concentrate on the interest of the U.S. Navy in >certain expeditions to Antartica? >We German resaerchers shall do the best we can to help you to >understand what it was all about our state of technology in the >late 40ies. I am afraid, this is not unknown to some among the >military-industrial-complex in the U.S. or U.K., because they >have "transported" away everything of importance in these early >days after >the end of the war. >>The "Vril" and "Haunebu" lie is based upon entirely fake >>documents often re-produced on Nazi UFO docudramas which talk >>about Nazi/ET/Occult links. >Do you know - or do you think so? >Auf Wiedersehen! >Joachim Koch I have never read such nonsense in my life - the suggestion that because people pledged their allegiance and loyalty to Himmlers' SS nearly 60 years ago that they should be held to that. Unbelievable. The suggestion that 'Germans' (a diverse bunch historically) should be allowed to do the research on a problem that left Germany in 1945 for good is frankly ludicrous. Our research group actually _has_ spoken to Germans who were witness to vital parts of the operation involving Miethe. I'm sure that some of them will, like millions of others, trusted Hitler until things went pear-shaped from 1943 onwards. For various reasons of confidentiality which have nothing to do with sick oaths to mass killers I cannot reveal a great deal more. The fact that several CIA documents in my possession mention German saucer technologies - or that some of the participants in the early development of a functioning though primitive discplane have spoken to us through newspaper articles and interviews made in the early postwar is of some importance. Having lived in Germany between the ages of 7 and 8 years old and having travelled there in over two dozen occasions and having once been able to speak German fluently I am in a position both to make an informed judgement about peoples' attitudes to the past and to carry on with an effective research effort. My parents - my father an RAF officer stationed in Germany in the 1960s and my mother still able to speak fluent German and who has travelled to (what was East) Germany many times since reunification - have many friends in Germany some of whom were refugees from East Prussia and who made successful lives for themselves in the postwar Federal Republic. So I don't need lectures from anybody on this and I have a good grasp of German history in any case. Joachim should also be aware of my attempts to "re-name" "Nazi UFOs" as German aircraft of low aspect ratio and even the skeptics will know that I have struggled to make this a technical investigation even though emotion and politics tend to cloud the issue. Yes, the Germans may well have things to learn from their past but its nearly the year 2000 now and the war ended 55 years ago. As far as I can see the new generation of Germans have, to some extent and in varying degrees, 'come to terms' with their past. The only problem is that rising unemployment and problems resulting from reunification have led to a rise in support for fascism - so this is a delicate problem. My main interest actually lies outside Germany because it is the whole business of 'Operation Paperclip' that will uncover further truths about saucer-type technologies. 'Paperclip' is clearly a major embarrassment to th US government which is hardly surprising when they expunged the war records of even people like Werner von Braun who had been involved with rocket technologies built on the back of slave labour. Not to mention Dornberger and his ascent to wealth and influence after the war in the USA. Or Klaus Barbie, Butcher of Lyons, who did a very nice deal thank you. As to the Antarctic business I shouldn't worry about that if I were you - another part of the myth (like 'Vril' and 'Haunebu') and if anything a search for "N**i" (can't say that word anymore) Gold". 'Highjump' appears to have had nothing to do with advanced German technologies. I was rather disturbed to hear Joachim state that those uncovering testimony from high ranking SS officers - or former SS personnel - might meet an unfortunate fate. Looks like some Germans may after all have failed to stop the historical hold of fascism taking its' grip on the their consciousness. Shades of 'Odessa'. Thanks god for the Jewish organizations - which I fully support - who have been able to expose the activities of so many of these murderers. I won't be holding my breath waiting for the luger to point my way - I've been waiting to long and it just hasn't happened. I'd prefer a 'Desert Eagle' myself - and they are Israeli technology. Long as its' quick. In this big wide world of ours we look where we can for answers - whether they lie in Germany, USA, Iceland or Puerto Rico! In the USA secrecy was and is equally as effective - come out with information about advanced technology programmes and go to jail without a 'get out of prison free' card. No money for passing 'Go' either. My loyalty is to the truth, Tim Matthews. ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Chinese Air Force Pilot Plays Chase with UFO From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:55:11 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:29:25 -0500 Subject: Chinese Air Force Pilot Plays Chase with UFO Hi people, Just recieved this, what do you think? Andy. ----- Air Force Pilot Plays Chase with UFO SHANGHAI, Nov. 05, 1998 -- (Agence France Presse) The air force had a prolonged up-close encounter with a UFO last month that one fighter pilot described as "just like ones in foreign movies," a government-controlled newspaper reported Thursday. A Hebei Daily report -- carried in the news digest Baokan Wenzhai -- gave a detailed pilot's account of an aerial cat-and-mouse game played between the object and a jet fighter ordered to intercept it. At least 140 people on the ground also saw the object, it said. An editor with the Hebei Daily said the events took place on Oct. 19 and were still being investigated by local government departments. The newspaper's report and military sources quoted show an openness that contrast sharply with Washington's notorious secrecy on the topic of unidentified flying objects (UFOs). It said the encounter began when four different radar stations in northern Hebei province picked up an unknown moving target in airspace directly above a military flight training base near Changzhou city. To observers at the base, the UFO first appeared like "a small star," and then grew larger and larger, perhaps as it descended to a lower altitude, the report said. They described an object with a mushroom-shaped dome on top and a flat bottom covered with bright, continually rotating lights. A base commander surnamed Li reported to his superiors, who ordered a Jianjiao-6 armed interceptor airborne to pursue the object once checks showed no other civilian or military aircraft in the area. The two pilots aboard said the object closely resembled depictions they had seen in foreign science fiction films. When they got within 4,000 meters (13,200 feet) of the UFO over Qing county, it abruptly shot upward, easily evading subsequent attempts to get closer. It appeared to be toying with the fighter by repeatedly outdistancing it and then reappearing just above it, the pilots said. The report said a request for permission to fire on the UFO with an onboard cannon was denied by ground command at one point. The interceptor was eventually forced to return to base after it ran out of fuel at an altitude of 12,000 meters (39,600 feet). The UFO then disappeared before two newer-model planes could get airborne, the article said. While China's racy tabloids often run stories of strange phenomena alongside celebrity-gossip and crime stories, UFO reports are seldom carried by more official papers like the Hebei Daily. ( (c) 1998 Agence France Presse)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite From: Susan Baldwin <sblee@stc.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:29:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:31:37 -0500 Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 17:32:41 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite >We may have won the cold war, but a far more valuable weapon was >lifted from the Soviets and put into production at home. Long >after nuclear warfare has become obsolete due to overpopulation >and a lack of open space to engage in a limited nuclear >exchange, the weapon of choice will still be the old fashioned >lie. Disinformation is a powerful and cost effective tool >against any society that wants to know the truth. When the lie >finally becomes accepted as the truth, and the next generation >knows of nothing else, will the technology of deception have >reached its zenith. >I hope I'm long gone. >Later, >Roger Evans Thats a statement we should think about and remember _all_ the time. I think we forget sometimes how the simplest things can be the most effective in the hands of those with an agenda. This past election was a good example of some of that.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Re: Music & UFOs From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 20:19:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:33:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Music & UFOs >From: Gilles Milot <milotg@Magnola.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Music & UFOs >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:19:55 -0500 <snip> >Let start a band 'The UFO Blues Band' or 'The Grey Philarmonic >Music Band'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:46:15 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:35:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:12:11 -0000 >Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:46:21 -0500 >Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo Previously, Tim wrote: >For various reasons of >confidentiality which have nothing to do with sick oaths to mass >killers I cannot reveal a great deal more. >The fact that several CIA documents in my possession mention >German saucer technologies - or that some of the participants in >the early development of a functioning though primitive >discplane have spoken to us through newspaper articles and >interviews made in the early postwar is of some importance. <substantial and necessary snip> >My loyalty is to the truth, > >Tim Matthews. Time out. Tim, I seem to see a pattern in your approach to debate... I take no position, pro or con, regarding the discussion over mysterious German technology; I haven't a clue what you are talking about, though it sounds interesting. You've obviously put a great deal of effort into something that you are very passionate about. However, I'm not quite sure what your real goal is as it relates to this listing. Putting forth ideas and concepts or unproven theories is, by and large, the nature of the beast regarding UFology. I mean, what else have we really got to talk about, right? On the other hand, claiming you've got a secret in your pocket that can prove everything regarding your position and then not sharing it with your readers is a bit of a cheat, don't you think? What if we all took that position? I know. The difference is that you REALLY DO have a secret in your pocket that can prove everything.... Don't take me wrong. I'm not being critical of you. In fact, without knowing what your secret is then there's nothing that I, or anyone else for that matter, can do to contradict you. Of course, that's the rub, isn't it? Loyalty to the truth is fine. Hoarding it is selfish. Think about it. Take care,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:30:42 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:37:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:15:20 -0800 (PST) >From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >I'm starting to cringe at these messages. Why does their seem to >be an almost outright hatred of SETI efforts by the people on >this list? Unfortunately, I lost the post you are referring to, so I can't quote from it. However, I feel confident that I expressed no hatred anywhere in it. I merely pointed out that SETI was squirming all over the place over one little hoax. If I had to guess, I'd say they were a bit concerned over the effect it might have on public opinion, especially if a true unknown signal is received. Now they have a bit of a taste for what ufologists have had to deal with for years. I call it poetic justice, since SETI people have always shown a great deal of disdain for ufology, and had no problem making it known publicly whenever the opportunity to go UFOlogy-bashing presented itself. Remember, one of them said (paraphrasing here) that this hoax has set SETI back a hundred years. Think about it. ONE hoax. UFOlogists are still plugging along and must deal with that stuff from time to time. But it certainly hasn't set them back a hundred years. If the SETI people can't take a bloody nose from time to time, they may as well quit now. >SETI isn't some huge monolithic government agency with a hive >mind, its individual astronomers dedicating their own precious >time and often money to global efforts to actually _do_ >something. Should we as a civilisation stop looking just because >some people claim to just *know* that ETs are buzzing around in >spacecraft..its almost as if (I hesitate to use the term) "true >believers" view SETI as a threat encroaching into their >"territory" or as a herasy to their faith. Yes, but to employ Dr. Sagan's logic...where's the proof? What, no proof? So why are they looking (or rather, listening)? There are far more cases of unexplainable objects in the sky (some) then unexplained radio signals (none, at last count). Makes sense to me. Like debunkers and hardline skeptics, you refuse to acknowledge those of us who simply want an explanation for the anomolous things people see in the sky. You insist on lumping us all into a single category "true believers" to avoid dealing with the problem at hand...explaining the sightings. Frankly, these guys need to get out more often and look up. Staring at those screens and interpreting all that noise as noise is probably no good for them anyhow. On second thought, it keeps them out of the way. I find the pursuit of unidentified flying objects infinitely more interesting. There are plenty of fascinating stories and information and people, new sightings occur every day, and ufology is as exciting as ever. Meanwhile....in the Bat-SETI cave......hissssssssssssss :-)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Re: The Cancelled Press Conference From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:24:26 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 01:13:48 -0500 Subject: Re: The Cancelled Press Conference >Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:58:26 -0800 (PST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Cancelled Press Conference >>Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:53:57 -0600 (CST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Cancelled Press Conference >>Jim, >>Why do you believe and support every UFO hoax that comes >>hurtling down the cyberspace highway? >Dennis, >Do keep in mind that when I call something a possibility, that >doesn't mean that I "support" it as definitely real. It would be >good to keep the alternatives in mind, rather than jumping to >black and white conclusions. And it would be good for you to use terms like "said" and "alleged," rather than asserting anecdotal statements and allegations as unassailable facts, thereby drawing your own black & white conclusions. The Dore episode should have raised cautious red flags by its very nature -- instead you leapt on it. >The human side of the hoax was larger than I had suspected, >since it incorporated the whole Paul Dore affair. Whatever the hell that means. Did it ever occur to you that the human side of the Billy Meier hoax might be larger than you suspected because it incorporated the whole Billy Meier affair? I didn't think so. >However I am >still open to the possibility that it was all a coverup for UFO >radio-signal activity that began at least as early as in >September, and was repeated a few other times at various >locations as if from a source near EQ Pegasi. Yes, and this is precisely the problem I've reiterated here time and time and again. Even when shown that something is a hoax, a hoax, and nothing but a hoax, your response is "However I am still open to the possibility..." >It is then >entirely possible that certain coverup agents became nervous >over the possibility that if the scientific SETI community were >to take it seriously, they might be able to deduce that, being a >real signal but not from any man-made source or from light years >away either one, it must be due to UFO activity. This then could >spell an early end for the UFO coverup, if a reputable section >of the scientific community were to become alerted. The signal >received a couple days ago by the Australian Radio Astronomy >Compact Array (I forget its correct title & acronym) could be >part of this UFO activity. It came to the attention of Richard >Hoagland (reported over the Art Bell program last night) and was >not kept secret because the signal was quickly dismissed by >astronomers as not having the proper appearance of a signal >coming from many light years away. But if such signals were to >keep reappearing at various radio telescope sites at various >times, some within the SETI community might start to catch on. More possible possibilities. Hoagland and Bell as reliable sources for same (or anything). The mind gags. >So all the coverup agents needed to do was create a hoax >regarding signals received from the EQ Pegasi direction, which >would quickly be seen to be a hoax. Thereafter no reputable >scientist would dare treat any ET (UFO) signals from the EQ >Pegasi direction seriously, for fear of ridicule, and scarcely >any of the news media would dare touch it either if further >observations of it by radio-astronomy amateurs were to occur. Jim, you are losing touch with reality, if you haven't done so already. >This then would be a combined UFO-human hoax, initiated by the >UFOI and then augmented by anonymous undercover agents in order >to cover up its UFO aspects. It would then be very reminiscent >of the Doug & Dave crop-circle incident which successfully >turned off the news media to the non-hoax reality of most crop >formations, and to the connections between crop-circle >formations and UFO appearances. It's deplorable that even some >ufologists fell for the Doug & Dave explanation, due to fear of >receiving ridicule otherwise. The only thing deplorable here is your deplorable assessment of affairs. Doug & Dave have long been dismissed and otherwise ignored by anyone who wasn't inclined to accept their account in the first place. See recent issues of the MUFON Journal and its current Proceedings for more than abundant evidence of same. Name a ufologist or two who "fell for the Doug & Dave explanation, due to fear of receiving ridicule otherwise." Seems to me that cereaology is perfectly alive and well within the UFO community at large. >I did notice one slightly promising item regarding the affair >within one of the statements from radio astronomers on the >Internet today, I believe it was from Frank Drake. He at least >had the curiosity to wonder why someone would go to the trouble >to generate the Paul Dore hoax. > Jim Deardorff Why would someone go to the trouble to hoax someone? Who knows? Why would someone go to the trouble to climb Mt. Everest? Because it's there? The Internet _invites_ hoaxes, a fact which should be obvious to even the most oblivious of Web surfers, Deardorff included. But apparently it sailed over his head. Not to worry. Hoagland & Bell will soon apprise us mere mortals of what's up and what's not. Dore I say?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 'UK Red Alert' - The Game & The Player From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:16:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:16:17 -0500 Subject: 'UK Red Alert' - The Game & The Player This comes via Sue Kovios. There's apparently a large game playing web community participating in 'UK Red Alert' There are several websites offering information on the game. Sue came across the following, which features names and e-mail addresses of some of the participants in the UK..... ---------- Source: http://www.bart-fam.demon.co.uk/index.html UK Red Alert Multiplayer List Welcome to the UK Red Alert Multiplayer List. Below is a list of players who play Red Alert. There are no rules affiliated with this list and no specified method of playing. It is up to you if you wish to email people to arrange games on the internet or by phone. [and among a list of players--ebk]: Paul Dore pdore@web-computing.demon.co.uk No location given --------- Same name, same e-mail address..... ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 How To Kill A Martian Bug From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:30:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:47:17 -0500 Subject: How To Kill A Martian Bug [List only] Source: Discovery Online News, http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/brief3.html Stig ******* Thursday, November 5, 1998 10:21 PM ET How to Kill a Martian Bug * After rejecting heat, noxious gas, and several other alternatives, a NASA scientist has settled on deadly doses of gamma radiation as the best method of killing Martian bugs, should any manage to hitchhike to Earth in future dust samples from the red planet. Carl Allen, a planetary geologist with Lockheed Martin at NASA's Johnson Space Center, unveiled the method of choice this week at a Houston conference on Martian meteorites. The National Research Council concluded in 1997 that all future Mars samples should be quarantined until "rigorous analysis concludes the samples don't constitute a biological hazard." Such analysis could take years. If any signs of life are detected in Martian rocks or soil, the samples might be kept in quarantine forever, limiting the number of scientists who can study them. So Allen was charged with finding a method of killing any life form in a sample without changing the chemical or mineral properties that would make a piece of Mars worth studying in the first place. Scientists in the laboratories of the Center for Disease Control, Allen knew, deal with dangerous microbes on a daily basis. Through them, he learned that virus hunters favor a dose of gamma radiation to sterilize Ebola, Lhasa fever and other horrific diseases. Allen collected twelve kinds of rock in small vials identical to those scheduled for a future Mars rover. After growing an assortment of microbes in them, Allen exposed them to several levels of radiation from the CDC's gamma sterilizer. He then compared the irradiated rocks to an unsterilized set, applying to both the full range of analytical techniques likely to be used on Martian samples. Three megarads of gamma radiation were sufficient to kill all the bugs, every time, without contaminating the samples' research quality. A human would die from exposure to even a small fraction of one megarad. "The point of this exercise was not to kill bugs," Allen emphasizes. "The point was to see the effect of a bug-killing dose on the rock." Other than dead microbes, the only measurable effects were slight dehydration of some samples, and the darkening of one quartz crystal. "Planning for planetary protection is our first and most important objective in solving the problems of Mars sample return," says Stephen Squyres, who will head the Athena Rover Team for a planned 2003 sample return mission. "This is a solid first step." By Michael Ray Taylor in Houston, Discovery Online News Related Stories *Space and Spacecraft *The Face in Space=BF Picture: NASA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Re: Hoaxer Shuts Down Fake Paul Dore Website From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:18:31 +0100 (MET) Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:49:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Hoaxer Shuts Down Fake Paul Dore Website >Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 01:38:43 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Hoaxer Shuts Down Fake Paul Dore Website Hi Larry, you said: >It is with the greatest of ease, that a hoaxer like the person >who tried to steal Paul Dore's name and identity [ quite >clumsily I might add ] could rip off the NSA seal. >All one has to do is to visit the NSA website, right-click on >their main page ( or whatever page displays this seal. ) and >save it as a file. >Using any decent HTML editor, you cut and pasted as needed. >Then you can graft the image onto any background you choose. >Deleting the original pages is a matter of a few keystrokes. >Voila! Instant conspiracy!! I hope you agree that allegations of conspiracy arise when people encounter a problem obtaining certain information. Now who in this case is detecting a conspiracy? The man who uses the name of Paul Dore? If so, what conspiracy, by whom and for what reason? Is the man who uses the name Paul Dore himself a conspirator? What conspiracy is he attempting in your view and for what motive? __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Re: Laura Lee Show E-News - October 7, 1998 From: Laura Lee <webmaster@lauralee.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:53:33 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:57:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Laura Lee Show E-News - October 7, 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HOT SHOW THIS WEEK! Here is your WEEKLY E-NEWS from THE LAURA LEE SHOW and www.lauralee.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Laura Lee E-News is sent by subscription only. If you wish to unsubscribe go to: http://www.lauralee.com/cfdocs/laura/mailinglist/enduse.cfm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RADIO SHOW GUEST/TOPIC LINE UP - Saturday, November 7, 1998 By Laura Lee Zecharia Sitchin One of the most popular researchers on the Ancient Astronaut Theory, Sitchin shares lastest findings. Newest Book: The Cosmic Code : Book Six of the Earth Chronicles" Zecharia Sitchin is one of a small number of orientalists who can read ancient Sumerican clay tablets. After a writing career as a journalist, he began writing his "Earth Chronicles" series of books, which to date have been translated in fourteen languages from their English originals. http://www.lauralee.com/sitchin.htm Erich von Daniken Erich von Daniken is the one who fist widely popularized the Ancient Astronaut theory. Beginning with "Chariots of the Gods," his many titles have been translated into 28 languages, and have sold over 55 million copies. His newest book: "Arrival of the Gods: Revealing the Alien Landing Sites of Nazca." His books have been translated into 28 languages, and have sold in almost 56 million copies throughout the world. http://www.aas-ra.org/evd/ Vaughn Greene Vaughn Greene, extraterrestrial researcher, analyzes 6,000 year-old Dogu statuettes found in Japan, and finds over 30 points of similarity with modern space suits. Details on these ancient statuettes look similar to the lenses, rivets, belts, quick release pins, earphones and rubber cuffs found on suits worn by NASA's astronauts. We'll also look at the Japanese legends, Shinto mythology, and ancient folklore which infer visits by extraterrestrials. Michael Theroux, Nathan Cohen, Seth Shostak SETI and EQ Pegasi: Reality vs. Fantasy SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, has taken a new twist. Has ET finally phoned home? We'll examine the claims that anonymous astronomers have detected a signal from deep space. Or is what they picked up coming from a spy satellite closer to home? Or could the whole thing be a hoax, and why? What are SETI dishes around the world picking up? Who is Mr. Paul Dore? On what band are the claimed signals? How do you separate out a real ET signal from a false alarm? What is the protocol when ET does phone Earth? How does the community of SETI researchers regard the claimed detection? Three SETI researchers will answer these questions, and yours. Our panel includes: Nathan Cohen, with Project DIPR (which devises theoretical SETI simulations) will dissect the claimed signal. Seth Shostak with the SETI Institute presents an eight-point analysis of the claim of detection, and Michael Theroux, Director of Borderlands Science Foundation, has a chronological unfoldment of the story, and research on an early, alternative SETI project. http://www.borderlands.com/ THIS WEEK'S POLL: Do you believe life on Earth was seeded from outerspace? TO VOTE go to: http://www.lauralee.com/poll.cfm After voting give us your feedback on the Laura Lee Bulletin Board: http://www.lauralee.com/bulletin.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GUESTS & TOPICS - NEW WEEKDAY INTERNET ONLY SHOW Scheduled to Appear (New Show Info at http://www.lauralee.com/talkspot.htm) Thursday, November 5, 1998 - NEW Internet only show JOIN US AT http://www.lauralee.com/talkspot.htm Gwynne Spencer Dreamwork: Working with dreams means remembering and exploring the dreams from sleep with an eye to their deeper meanings. Each one of us is uniquely blind to the deeper meanings of our own dreams, and Dream Work helps us see what amazing gifts are there. Dan Werthimer More on SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence via detections of ET transmissions from deep space. It's not just radio waves, but laser waves as well they are looking for. Dan Werthimer talks the technicals, and ponders, what will we do when ET phones? Dr. Melvin Morse Dr. Melvin Morse reports on the Near Death Experience, especially those of children. Says Dr. Morse, "by studying the neuroscience of the Near Death Experience, we learn that human beings have an unused area of the brain which is responsible for spiritual intuitions, paranormal abilities such as telepathy and remote viewing, and the power to heal not only the soul, but the body as well." Friday, November 6, 1998 - - NEW Internet only show JOIN US AT http://www.lauralee.com/talkspot.htm Roger Williard Ever wonder about the life of a private investigator? How do they find missing people? How do people disappear? Roger Willard is a PI. For over 21 years he has been hunting people for criminal and civil cases. Learn how he does it. Author of "Missing Persons, USA: How to Hunt Down and Find Anyone, Anywhere". Michael Murphy What do golf and human potential have in common? Plenty, says Michael Murphy, who gave us the classic tale of sport and mysticism, "Golf in the Kingdom". The rules of the inner game, not only of golf, but of growth and transformation. To join us and FOR INFORMATION on the internet only show Laura Lee Online: go to http://www.lauralee.com/talkspot.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ANSWERS TO FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS FOLLOW. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE LAURA LEE SHOW WEBSITE: http://www.lauralee.com/index.cfm REAL AUDIO ARCHIVES: Posted in full by Sunday Noon Pacific for the previous nights show. Now formatted in REAL AUDIO. The Audio Archives will remain on our website indefinitely. http://www.lauralee.com/archives.htm AUDIO CASSETTES: Should you need an audio tape of same to send to a friend, or to listen to when you are not at your computer, call 1-800-243-1438. Tapes are edited of commercial and news breaks, are often on 90 minute cassettes, and only $7 each. More info at: http://www.lauralee.com/cassette.htm LIVE WEBCAST: If you cannot get radio reception, try the webcast during live show hours. To join the webcast, click the AUDIO button on our homepage, and follow directions from there. Or go direct: http://www.lauralee.com/aud_live.htm BULLETIN BOARD SECTION for YOUR REACTION TO GUESTS: We named it "And the Conversation Continues" This new feature is a bulletin board segmented by date, then guest, to gather your musings and reactions to the various guest and their research. Offer as well as read the musings of others, including Laura Lee. http://www.lauralee.com/bulletin.htm LIVE RADIO SHOW HOURS: Saturday 7 PM to Sunday 2 AM Pacific Saturday 8 PM to Sunday 3 AM Mountain Saturday 9 PM to Sunday 4 AM Central Saturday 10 PM to Sunday 5 AM Eastern RADIO STATION LIST: For a complete list of stations carrying the Laura Lee Show, click on the TIMES & STATIONS button. Please note that not every station takes all of our show hours. And if your local station does not, you can always direct an email message or postcard to the Program Director, requesting that he/she add the missing hours of our show to their lineup. That simple gesture can work wonders! http://www.lauralee.com/stations.htm WEEKLY BOOK GIVEAWAY: Books, videos and audio tapes are given away from a random drawing of entries. To enter, go to: http://www.lauralee.com/contest.htm SEE SOME INTERESTING PHOTOS We've got "must-see" photos of Chinas pyramids, and Japans underwater stone mysteries. View photos at: http://www.lauralee.com/mystery.htm And a few personal photos of Paul, Laura Lee, and dog Chance at: http://www.lauralee.com/photoalb.htm LAST MINUTE CHANGES OFTEN OCCUR: The list above of posted guests/topics represent what is scheduled when this is sent. Last minute and often unavoidable changes can occur. When a scheduled guest is unable to join us, well include a rescheduled time/date in the next email message to you. We apologize for any inconvenience. TO SUBSCRIBE: If you wish receive these weekly updates, and you are not already on our list (perhaps someone kindly forwarded this message to you) simply return this message with "subscribe" as the subject, and we will add you to our email list. Or go direct to http://www.lauralee.com/cfdocs/laura/mailinglist/enduse.cfm TO UNSUBSCRIBE: If you receive this message without subscribing, it means that someone else has entered you for subscription. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Asgeir W=E6hre Skavhaug <KONAWS@statoil.com> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:17:25 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:59:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:29:22 -0000 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>Date: 31 October 1998 00:27 >>From: Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug <KONAWS@statoil.com> >>To: updates@globalserve.net ><Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:47:38 +0100 >>Subject: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo <snip> >The "Vril" and "Haunebu" lie is based upon entirely fake >documents often re-produced on Nazi UFO docudramas which talk >about Nazi/ET/Occult links. >It seems that a rational position, based upon a technological >investigation, is impossible within Ufology whereby either we >are expected to believe the ravings of idiots re the ETH or the >ravings of right-wing loonies and their fellow travellers via >the "Secret Nazi Technology" adherents. >Both positions are based on fantasy not fact and as I never >cease to point out the "V" designation stood for "Versuchs" >which means experimental in German. <snip> >Tim Matthews >matthews@zetnet.co.uk Tim & List, Due to the 'remarkable similarity' between the (alleged) SS 'Haunebu II' drawing, dated 1943, and the object shown on Adamski's film and photo, I was - basically - just wondering: 1. Whether the (alleged) SS 'Haunebu II' drawing was produced before or after the film and photo were produced/shot, and, 2. Whether Adamski produced/shot the film and photo himself (in Germany/England/USA), and, 3. Whether he personally got hold of it somewhere in Europe or in the USA after the war, and, 4. Whether the film and photo were produced in Europe or in the USA during or after the war. Before an answer can be given to 1), I guess the original SS drawing must be found and undertaken some research. This will possibly give an answer to whether Adamski's photo and film, as shown here: http://www.gafintl-adamski.com/GAFPhoto.htm were fakes - or _not fakes_, i.e., that it should be - as claimed by Adamski - a photo and film of a _real_ aircraft/UFO/saucer - though really not an ET craft, but a terrestrial one, based upon the 'Haunebu II' SS drawing. (Whether the names are 'Haunebu' or 'Vril' doesn't matter to me; it happens very often today that certain craft/constructions (e.g., rockets/planes/offshore oil installations, etc.) are named after mythological persons.) Thus, to conclude - the possibility here was that the projected craft on the alleged SS drawing _could_ have been drawn some time in the fifties - and after 1952 - by a careful study of the film and photo, and then - at least - the date shown on the SS drawing was a fake. (There might be some combination of possibilities as well.) Regards, AWS.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 French UFO Author Paul Misraki Dies From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:21:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:03:55 -0500 Subject: French UFO Author Paul Misraki Dies Hello List! It should not be me, but our French colleagues, to spread this information, but either nobody noticed it or any mention of it did escape from my attention, so here I am. According to a short news item published in Turin daily "La Stampa" on November 1st, French musician and composer Paul Misraki (real name: Paul Misrachi) died in his Paris home on October 31st, at the age of 90. He was most known as a piano-man in Ray Ventura's orchestra, back in the '30s, and later as a talented song-writer for Edith Piaf, Yves Montand and Juliette Greco. His most famous song was "Tout va tres bien, Madame la marquise". He also wrote music for the cinema (movies directed by Orson Welles, Roger Vadim, claude Chabrol, Luis Bunuel). Now you may ask: "What has it all to do with UFOs?". A less known fact is that Paul Misraki was a passionate student of UFOs and an appreciated author of books about that subject. He did not dare to put his name on the cover of the first one, "Les extraterrestres" (The extraterrestrials), published by Plon, Paris, in 1962 under the nom-de-plume of Paul Thomas (also translated in English by Spearman, London, in 1965, with the title "Flying Saucers Through the Ages"). That book made him an early promoter of the ancient astronauts thesis, mainly referring to the Bible for plenty of examples. It was also the very first book to suggest that the Fatima "sun miracle" and BVM apparitions might have been due to UFO phenomena. He finally dropped his pseudonym and consented that the second edition of his book (published in 1968) and a revised, largely updated third edition (in 1978) of his book be published with the new title "Des signes dans le ciel" (Signs In The Sky) under his name of Paul Misraki. Best regards Edoardo Russo Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033 http://www.arpnet.it/ufo e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 02:32:59 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:10:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore >Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:50:58 -0600 (CST) >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore Hi Brian: As far as I know, and 'equinox' is a fixed point in the stellar sphere .. as in vernal or autumnal equinox. It does not change from one decade to the next. Since everything in the solar system perturbs everything else, sort of an n-body problem where the 3-body problem has never been resolved, I understand that an 'epoch' is declared every so many years based on observation rather than theory. Thus at the epoch 1980, for example, each planet has such-and-such orbital position and properties ( apehelion, perihelion etc. etc.). This is something like a de-facto data inventory, rather than the results of some humongous computer run. This is a major headache for me, as I have an astronomical routine built into my UFO Database software .. as a means of testing 'Venus' explanations and the like. I finally settled on epoch 1980, so that planetary positions far from that date are less and less accurate. Alas! >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore >>>Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:52:49 -0600 (CST) >>>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> >>>Subject: Re: The Cancelled Press Conference >><snip> >>>PS: For the record, here's Dore's celestial coordinates of >>>the signal, as reported in UFO Roundup (Volume 3, Number 44, >>>November 2, 1998): >>>Right Ascension: 23 hours 31 minutes 48 seconds >>>Declination: +19 degrees 55 minutes 50 seconds >>>The equinox of this position (which is important) isn't >>>stated. Typically nowadays it would be equinox 2000, but it >>>could also be equinox 1950. >>Dear Brian: >>1) In your postscript at bottom, are you referring >>to the "equinox" 1950/2000 or the epoch? >Good question Larry. You must be an amateur astronomer too. >Most folks wouldn't know the difference. I intended to say >equinox. But I'm not really sure. It would depend, I think, >on how the position was originally determined. And since the >whole thing is quite possibly a hoax, the position may have >been pulled out of a hat anyway :-) >>2) I have received at least one (relayed) message >>from the "real" Paul Dore claiming no knowledge >>whatsoever of the entire SETI signal affair. >Yep. It does appear now it was the intent of _somebody_ to >confuse the SETI community (and beyond that, apparently >discourage/humiliate all those interested in SETI). Whether this >was an aberrant individual with a personal agenda, or a more >organized group (insert favorite conspiracy theory here) we'll >likely never know. I found a funny little website called conspiracy.org! I can look up the exact URL if you like. They even answered my email. >>If this is valid, it casts a pall upon the entire affair; >>since somebody, originally anonymous, would have >>to have assumed Paul Dore's identity for some >>goofy reason. The plot thickens and/or sickens. >As was noted by some perceptive soul in a previous post, ufology >has had to deal with such sideshows for years. I guess it was >just a matter of time until the SETI people were invited in too. >Welcome to the party, folks. >Onward thru the fog, > -Brian Cuthbertson I have two questions only: 1) Who pulled this 'seti' stunt? 2) What were their motives? - LH
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Re: [canufo] Sighting: 11-02-98, Winnipeg, MB From: Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug <KONAWS@statoil.com> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:02:31 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:15:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [canufo] Sighting: 11-02-98, Winnipeg, MB >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >To: canufo@egroups.com >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:28:00 -0600 (CST) >Subject: [canufo] Sighting: 2 November 1998, Winnipeg, MB >I had two calls and word of three other separate witnesses to a >bright bolide-like object at about 8:15 pm last night (November >2, 1998). Most witnesses were in the east part of Winnipeg or >Transcona and reported seeing a "silver-red" fireball in the >SE, heading W. It had a "long bright streak" behind it, but no >sparks. However, two witnesses insisted the object *stopped* in >mid-flight, remained stationary and then moved away, rather >than moving in a regular trajectory. >My vote would be for a bolide, but for the odd trajectory. >Autostasis? There was a -1 Iridium at 7:35 pm visible in the N. >And John Glenn's shuttle is *not* visible from here. >Any other sightings reported in Canada last night? Chris & List, Not exactly in Canada, but, two sightings were reported (high) in the sky, from two different locations, in Norway, on Tuesday morning, 3 November: 1) At approx. 04:00 am; witnesses were in the Bergen area (Vaksdal); 'object' (high) in the eastern part of the sky; a _stationary_ (for about 1 hour), flashing light; green on 'top' and red at the "bottom": http://www.bergens-tidende.no/vis.html?id=12480 2) "In the morning"; witnesses in the Stavanger area; between 3:00 am and 6:00 am (?); a meteorite with a blue tail; (high) in the eastern part of the sky. Any plausible explanation here? Could these sightings be similar to the Canadian sightings? Or, maybe similar sightings from witnesses in other parts of the world? Best Regards, AWS
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite From: Paul Wittry <ppw3@premier1.net> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:12:54 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:17:25 -0500 Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite Hello All, What is "Project 415"? Surprise, surprise, it's the mighty 'Echelon' system. What's that yoy say? Well, point your browser at: http://jya.com/echelon-dc.htm Where was the "hoax" reported from? Oh, that's right it was England. Funniest thing, a few months ago there were some stories circulating on some Members of Parliment wanting to blow the lid off this "Echelon" system. Hmmmm. . . Hope this helps, Paul -- Paul Wittry <pwittry@netscape.net> <ppw3@premier1.net><bi065@scn.org> <http://www.premier1.net/~ppw3> >>>What if: There was a national election, and nobody voted ?<<<
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Security Oaths From: Paul Reischmann <preischmann@beckman.com> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:12:03 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:30:26 -0500 Subject: Security Oaths With regard to the recent SETI 'incident' and other situations involving 'security oaths' that prevent individuals from discussions of certain situations, my questions are: (1) Who has the authority to release an individual from a security oath? (2) Is their a local county/state official that can render the oath null and void? (3) Can a state governor grant a pardon? Can Congress? (4) How legally binding is a document that is signed under duress? (5) Does the document indicate the organization that is demanding silence? (6) Does the individual retain a copy? (7) Can the individual make public the document? (8) Who gave these groups carte blanche power to silence reality? Paul Reischmann
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Re: Pssst...Get An Ape Suit-Quick! From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:23:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:23:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Pssst...Get An Ape Suit-Quick! >This would really work if everyone would do it... >Everybody must act quickly !!! >This is a secret. Spread this around to everyone except for John >Glenn. >People get more gullible when they get older. >When John Glenn returns from space, everybody dress in Ape Suits. >Pass it on. From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:33:09 EST To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Pssst...Get An Ape Suit-Quick! I am so sorry we don't have Roddy McDowall to lead the apes... <<<>>> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 01:51:25 -0800 From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Pssst...Get An Ape Suit-Quick! Dear John: This would be an awful trick to play on a very nice old fellow .. but .. you made me laugh my a** off ! - Larry Hatch <<<>>> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:46:13 -0500 (EST) To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Pssst...Get An Ape Suit-Quick! You been readin' old copies of MAD, boy??? Years ago they had National Gorilla Suit Day as a holiday. I was sorry it never caught on.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 6 Re: The Ed Stewart Show From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:48:13 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 17:51:10 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ed Stewart Show Whoa, boys and girls, I have been receiving orders for Dr. Jaime Gesundt's stainless steel face mask.... REAL ORDERS! HEY! YOU! WITH THE POINT ON YOUR HEAD... It was supposed to be funny, folks! A joke! As in Yuk yuk? To the twit who sent me sixty bucks IN CASH and wanted three of 'em.... he said it was for his his mother in law, Atilla the Hun-ess, you forgot your return address. I am keeping the money because I really need that operation I've been saving up for....
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:58:41 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 18:16:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Date: 06 November 1998 05:35 >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:46:15 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:12:11 -0000 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:46:21 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Previously, Tim wrote: >>For various reasons of >>confidentiality which have nothing to do with sick oaths to mass >>killers I cannot reveal a great deal more. >>The fact that several CIA documents in my possession mention >>German saucer technologies - or that some of the participants in >>the early development of a functioning though primitive >>discplane have spoken to us through newspaper articles and >>interviews made in the early postwar is of some importance. > <substantial and necessary snip> >>My loyalty is to the truth, >>Tim Matthews. >Time out. >Tim, I seem to see a pattern in your approach to debate... >I take no position, pro or con, regarding the discussion over >mysterious German technology; I haven't a clue what you are >talking about, though it sounds interesting. You've obviously >put a great deal of effort into something that you are very >passionate about. >However, I'm not quite sure what your real goal is as it relates >to this listing. Putting forth ideas and concepts or unproven >theories is, by and large, the nature of the beast regarding >UFology. I mean, what else have we really got to talk about, >right? >On the other hand, claiming you've got a secret in your pocket >that can prove everything regarding your position and then not >sharing it with your readers is a bit of a cheat, don't you >think? What if we all took that position? >I know. The difference is that you REALLY DO have a secret in >your pocket that can prove everything.... >Don't take me wrong. I'm not being critical of you. In fact, >without knowing what your secret is then there's nothing that I, >or anyone else for that matter, can do to contradict you. Of >course, that's the rub, isn't it? >Loyalty to the truth is fine. Hoarding it is selfish. >Think about it. >Take care, >Roger Evans Hi Roger, I agree with you. In its' most basic form the story is that somebody associated with our disc research actually met an old German guy who had been in a position to come into contact with Richard Miethe on a number of occasions and who provided some intriguing background to the goings-on at the two BMW factories near Prague where some of the German disc work took place. There are other documents talking about operational jet-powered disc only recently released and perhaps things like 'Sign', 'Grudge' and 'Blue Book' we in reality only low-level efforts related to the Cold War situation. The evidence is now suggesting that the Soviets had discplanes attempting to penetrate the Northern DEW lines from 1949 and under these circumstances any US response along similar lines would not be surprising. Note the very serious attention paid the question of advanced Soviet aircraft in many of the declassified documents..... There are many secrets - some to do with the Cold War. I suggest that flying discs are the big Cold War secret still to fully emerge from the black world........I further suggest a certain element of psychological warfare in terms of the handling of the UFO subject by the authorities.... The definite impression given was that this chap had held back to some extent because of this loyalty and allegiance stuff which is taken quite seriously by the older generation in Germany although not particularly by the new generation of Germans - with some unfortunate exceptions..... The point is this; based upon a good deal of credible evidence we can now say with a certain assurance that flying discs were and are an example of earthly technology. I'll send you some stuff privately on this. I think 'flying triangle' reports are the same thing except they're being seen now. If there is any evidence for alien-human contact then at best it is tenuous, anecdotal and entirely unproven. There is also a fundamental problem where people confuse the extra-terrestrial hypothesis with their belief in actual alien contact happening here and now. I'm quite happy with things like the Drake equation and the writings of Fort and Jung but they are on an entirely different level to the madness that too often passes for UFO research. So if there is evidence of alien contact then where are we to look? Surely not the 'Space God' theory? Disc sightings? No! Triangle sightings? No! Balls of light? Possibly but then we know that many of these could be natural phenomena/earth lights. OK - well maybe it's close encounters. But they too often emerge after the most questionable use of hypnosis - a method banned by nearly every UFO research group in the UK, including my own. So it's very problematic and nobody ever seems to get into this disc debate - perhaps because they are afraid I'm right. Who knows? Hope to hear from you soon..... Tim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Re: The Ed Stewart Show From: Ann Mulvey <annmulvey@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:22:32 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:10:59 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ed Stewart Show >From: Jim Mortellaro <smortell@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:21:00 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Ed Stewart Show >.....Say alleluia, say Amen. As an opening act to the musical gig, I think a stand up comedy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 14:37:19 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:20:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 02:32:59 -0800 >Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:10:34 -0500 >Subject: Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore Previously, Brian Cuthbertson wrote: >>As was noted by some perceptive soul in a previous post, ufology >>has had to deal with such sideshows for years. I guess it was >>just a matter of time until the SETI people were invited in too. >>Welcome to the party, folks. >>Onward thru the fog, >> -Brian Cuthbertson Larry Hatch responded: >I have two questions only: >1) Who pulled this 'seti' stunt? >2) What were their motives? Unfortunately, there isn't always a motive for things like this, assuming this is a hoax. Just take a drive through any city and look at the graffiti on the walls of overpasses or the broken windows of run-down housing. Even in "proper" neighborhoods, vandalism is a continuous problem. Homes and automobiles are broken into and trashed for no more reason than the apparent hell of it. So is it really so unlikely that someone might create a hoax with no real agenda other than to see if they could do it? In a broader sense, to many, "motive" implies the moving force behind a larger plan. Outside of government covert intervention, we really give hoaxers far to much credit by even considering such cowardly and lazy actions "motivated" in any sense of the word. Real research is hard work and results are never guaranteed. Scientific hoaxes are an insult to the men and women that dedicate themselves to such research. They are patient enough to wait for results; not to "short-cut" the process through fraud. When such fraud occurs, it is nothing more than vandalism of the scientific neighborhood; useless people defacing things of value out of frustration over a meaningless existence. They don't need a reason and their faces are never seen. Next week, they probably won't even remember what they trashed. Later,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Re: Bielek Banned From The Uk? From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:45:28 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:26:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Bielek Banned From The Uk? I received today Kevin McClure's latest edition of 'Abduction Watch' in the post. Although I have had, and no doubt continue to have, some serious problems with Kevin's opinions I support his newsletter via subscription and have advertised it as widely as possible. The old editions of AW are available to view on the Magonia website...... Ufology is an important subject for all of us. There are differing opinions and that's fine. In fact debate is a good way of getting to the bottom of things. Occasionally people put out material so offensive and dangerous, and almost certainly likely to bring the subject into further disrepute, that we must act. Amongst the targets for Kevin's (and my) criticism have been some of the charlatans who do a major disservice to Ufology and the latest of these appears to be Al Bielek who has been invited to speak at the LAPIS two-day Conference in Blackpool in a couple of weeks. Not only does it emerge that the Conference organizers - surprise, surprise - have little idea about Bielek and his group of time travellers - but that they are allowing him to sell various books some of which have very strong anti-Semitic and holocaust revisionist overtones. I can confirm that Peter Moons' book entitled 'Black Sun' IS riddled with quite unbelievable and offensive quotations and perhaps the worst is one reproduced by Kevin; "Hurtak says the most important aspect of the Third Reich is that they opened the window to other worlds...on the 3rd and 4th Jan.1934, Hitler and Himmler got together to discuss the Vril project. They talked about the prospect of sending a huge space ship through a dimensional channel that as a tunnel independent of the speed of light. It was supposed to go to Aldebaran...Long before Roswell, there were similar incidents in Germany. The nation had the peak scientists in the world, and it stands to reason that they would have been contacted. ..People miss with regard to Mengele when they assume that the diabolical aspects of his work were inspired only by a lust for evil deeds. His "whimsical" [not a word anybody with an ounce of sense or compassion would use of Mengele] thumbs up or down at the death camps was not merely his rendition of a past life as Nero or Caligula. He was looking for specific genetic traits with his highly trained eyes. Mengele was diabolical all right, but there was a more exacting and greater scheme behind the holocaust than anyone has imagined....if the 'Protocols of Zion' were a forgery, they are an exact methodology through which a group such as the Illuminati would use to control world politics...Jan (van Helsing) claimed that Jewish factions currently run the country of Germany....reparations are still being paid by Germany to fund the state of Israel...Some (Germans)* think that World War 2 was a manipulation by the Zionist Jews to engineer a situation where the Germans would fund Israel. This sort of thinking is common in Germany". (*Some Germans? Neo-Nazis and former SS murderers more like.) Well there you are. There is no evidence to support any of this and it reads like modern-day neo-Nazi propaganda. As a bit of an expert in this field (I realised what dangerous rubbish all this was back in the late 1980s) and one very knowledgeable about the dangerous nonsense contained within revisionist texts I can tell you that there is very little difference between the above and publications like "Holocaust News" (a UK Nazi paper denying the Holocaust distributed during the late 80s through the early 1990s), "British Nationalist" and several others. As a result of the organizers failure to address these issues and to find out first about the people being invited to their own event I feel that it is only right to ask the Home Secretary's office for an opinion. It is certainly the case that people with less extreme views than Bielek have been either banned or deported from the UK in recent years. One of these was Holocaust denier "Dr." Fred Luechter in 1991. Islamic and 'Nation of Islam' extremists have also be banned from entry to the UK. I will certainly be asking various people's opinions on this in the next week. I should say that although I am convinced that the involvement of Nazi scientists in postwar America is of the greatest significance one of the main reasons that certain information relating to advanced aircraft technologies is still classified is because the issue of dirty deals done via 'Paperclip' are still a big issue for the US government. The German programmes did involve the use of slave labour after all and so any research into this question must acknowledge this. The Germans did have a range of remarkable aviation technologies but I coming to the conclusion that "tesla" type systems have very little to do with this - mainly because, in general, the people pushing the Tesla technology line are coming from a similar ideological angle as Bielek and co. In the USA people may be horrified by the suggestion of banning visitors to the UK but over here - as a result of our rather close experiences with Nazi Germany - a legal and moral precedent has already been set. To a great extent the ball is the organizers hands and I can only say that if they fail to act now they may find angry demonstrators at their event in a couple of weekends time - not to mention possible interest from UK authorities, Jewish groups and others. This has certainly been the case in the past. I myself will _not_ attend this event. I was going to encourage our Society to hold an event in the evening in Blackpool to put over some facts about terrestrial disc programmes to press and public alike but none of us want to be in anyway associated with it. I also took advice from various respected researchers and they told me to steer clear..... In any case this week none radio stations carried interviews with me on the subject. Already I have received a number of emails from prominent US researchers for whom I have a great deal of time and who are, in the main, ETHers - saying that Bielek and his group are THE WORST people to invite to a Conference. So what do 'Updates' readers think?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Bielek Banned From The Uk? From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:45:28 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:33:51 -0500 Subject: Bielek Banned From The Uk? I received today Kevin McClure's latest edition of 'Abduction Watch' in the post. Although I have had, and no doubt continue to have, some serious problems with Kevin's opinions I support his newsletter via subscription and have advertised it as widely as possible. The old editions of AW are available to view on the Magonia website...... Ufology is an important subject for all of us. There are differing opinions and that's fine. In fact debate is a good way of getting to the bottom of things. Occasionally people put out material so offensive and dangerous, and almost certainly likely to bring the subject into further disrepute, that we must act. Amongst the targets for Kevin's (and my) criticism have been some of the charlatans who do a major disservice to Ufology and the latest of these appears to be Al Bielek who has been invited to speak at the LAPIS two-day Conference in Blackpool in a couple of weeks. Not only does it emerge that the Conference organizers - surprise, surprise - have little idea about Bielek and his group of time travellers - but that they are allowing him to sell various books some of which have very strong anti-Semitic and holocaust revisionist overtones. I can confirm that Peter Moons' book entitled 'Black Sun' _is_ riddled with quite unbelievable and offensive quotations and perhaps the worst is one reproduced by Kevin; "Hurtak says the most important aspect of the Third Reich is that they opened the window to other worlds...on the 3rd and 4th Jan.1934, Hitler and Himmler got together to discuss the Vril project. They talked about the prospect of sending a huge space ship through a dimensional channel that as a tunnel independent of the speed of light. It was supposed to go to Aldebaran...Long before Roswell, there were similar incidents in Germany. The nation had the peak scientists in the world, and it stands to reason that they would have been contacted. ..People miss with regard to Mengele when they assume that the diabolical aspects of his work were inspired only by a lust for evil deeds. His "whimsical" [not a word anybody with an ounce of sense or compassion would use of Mengele] thumbs up or down at the death camps was not merely his rendition of a past life as Nero or Caligula. He was looking for specific genetic traits with his highly trained eyes. Mengele was diabolical all right, but there was a more exacting and greater scheme behind the holocaust than anyone has imagined....if the 'Protocols of Zion' were a forgery, they are an exact methodology through which a group such as the Illuminati would use to control world politics...Jan (van Helsing) claimed that Jewish factions currently run the country of Germany....reparations are still being paid by Germany to fund the state of Israel...Some (Germans)* think that World War 2 was a manipulation by the Zionist Jews to engineer a situation where the Germans would fund Israel. This sort of thinking is common in Germany". (*Some Germans? Neo-Nazis and former SS murderers more like.) Well there you are. There is no evidence to support any of this and it reads like modern-day neo-Nazi propaganda. As a bit of an expert in this field (I realised what dangerous rubbish all this was back in the late 1980s) and one very knowledgeable about the dangerous nonsense contained within revisionist texts I can tell you that there is very little difference between the above and publications like "Holocaust News" (a UK Nazi paper denying the Holocaust distributed during the late 80s through the early 1990s), "British Nationalist" and several others. As a result of the organizers failure to address these issues and to find out first about the people being invited to their own event I feel that it is only right to ask the Home Secretary's office for an opinion. It is certainly the case that people with less extreme views than Bielek have been either banned or deported from the UK in recent years. One of these was Holocaust denier 'Dr.' Fred Luechter in 1991. Islamic and 'Nation of Islam' extremists have also be banned from entry to the UK. I will certainly be asking various people's opinions on this in the next week. I should say that although I am convinced that the involvement of Nazi scientists in postwar America is of the greatest significance one of the main reasons that certain information relating to advanced aircraft technologies is still classified is because the issue of dirty deals done via 'Paperclip' are still a big issue for the US government. The German programmes did involve the use of slave labour after all and so any research into this question must acknowledge this. The Germans did have a range of remarkable aviation technologies but I coming to the conclusion that "tesla" type systems have very little to do with this - mainly because, in general, the people pushing the Tesla technology line are coming from a similar ideological angle as Bielek and co. In the USA people may be horrified by the suggestion of banning visitors to the UK but over here - as a result of our rather close experiences with Nazi Germany - a legal and moral precedent has already been set. To a great extent the ball is the organizers hands and I can only say that if they fail to act now they may find angry demonstrators at their event in a couple of weekends time - not to mention possible interest from UK authorities, Jewish groups and others. This has certainly been the case in the past. I myself will _not_ attend this event. I was going to encourage our Society to hold an event in the evening in Blackpool to put over some facts about terrestrial disc programmes to press and public alike but none of us want to be in anyway associated with it. I also took advice from various respected researchers and they told me to steer clear..... In any case this week none radio stations carried interviews with me on the subject. Already I have received a number of emails from prominent US researchers for whom I have a great deal of time and who are, in the main, ETHers - saying that Bielek and his group are _The_ _Worst_ people to invite to a Conference. So what do 'Updates' readers think?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Re: Hoaxer Shuts Down Fake Paul Dore Website From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 13:55:05 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:39:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Hoaxer Shuts Down Fake Paul Dore Website >Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:18:31 +0100 (MET) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoaxer Shuts Down Fake Paul Dore Website >>Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 01:38:43 -0800 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Hoaxer Shuts Down Fake Paul Dore Website >Hi Larry, you said: >>It is with the greatest of ease, that a hoaxer like the person >>who tried to steal Paul Dore's name and identity [ quite >>clumsily I might add ] could rip off the NSA seal. >>All one has to do is to visit the NSA website, right-click on >>their main page ( or whatever page displays this seal. ) and >>save it as a file. >>Using any decent HTML editor, you cut and pasted as needed. >>Then you can graft the image onto any background you choose. >>Deleting the original pages is a matter of a few keystrokes. >>Voila! Instant conspiracy!! >I hope you agree that allegations of conspiracy arise when >people encounter a problem obtaining certain information. >Now who in this case is detecting a conspiracy? The man who uses >the name of Paul Dore? If so, what conspiracy, by whom and for >what reason? >Is the man who uses the name Paul Dore himself a conspirator? >What conspiracy is he attempting in your view and for what >motive? Hello Henny! 1) The hoaxer (or whatever) clearly "borrowed" Paul Dore's name. Dore has spoken up about this... he knew nothing of the entire affair until the news came out! 2) The hoaxer only borrowed Dore's identity when his little prank started to bog down for lack of credibility, because there was no 'name' attached. The 'anonymous' source wasn't good enough. 3) I have no idea who this person actually is, not do I know any particular motives. These are the main mysteries here; at least in my own opinion. 4) I never suggested a conspiracy. A teenage prank seems as likely as anything else .. however finding the perpetrator is the clear answer to that! 5) To find the perpetrator: a - Carefully search your 'cache' or 'deleted emails' list in your web browser / email reader. b - _if_ you still have the _original_ emails announcing the phony SETI signal, then .. c - Switch your email reader to display the _full_header_ (all the gobblydegook routing info at the top of the message ). d - save the email as a .TXT file, to preserve the headers and all in a file that can be attached to new emails. e - Send new emails, with the attached .TXT files ( original messages with full headers ) to experienced hackers, who can track down the perpetrator(s). I think that is the most direct way to try and get some real info on this fiasco. It may turn out to be quite an interesting story after all. Best wishes - Larry Hatch. = = = = =
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Re: Re: [canufo] Sighting: 11-02-98, Winnipeg, MB From: Joel Henry <jhenry@mail.wavefront.com> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 16:28:02 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:46:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: [canufo] Sighting: 11-02-98, Winnipeg, MB >From: Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug <KONAWS@statoil.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:02:31 +0100 >Subject: RE: -[For The Record]- [canufo] Sighting: 11-02-98, Winnipeg, MB >>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >>To: canufo@egroups.com >>Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:28:00 -0600 (CST) >>Subject: [canufo] Sighting: 2 November 1998, Winnipeg, MB >>I had two calls and word of three other separate witnesses to a >>bright bolide-like object at about 8:15 pm last night (November >>2, 1998). Most witnesses were in the east part of Winnipeg or >>Transcona and reported seeing a "silver-red" fireball in the >>SE, heading W. It had a "long bright streak" behind it, but no >>sparks. However, two witnesses insisted the object *stopped* in >>mid-flight, remained stationary and then moved away, rather >>than moving in a regular trajectory. >>My vote would be for a bolide, but for the odd trajectory. >>Autostasis? There was a -1 Iridium at 7:35 pm visible in the N. >>And John Glenn's shuttle is *not* visible from here. >>Any other sightings reported in Canada last night? >Chris & List, >Not exactly in Canada, but, two sightings were reported (high) >in the sky, from two different locations, in Norway, on Tuesday >morning, 3 November: >1) At approx. 04:00 am; witnesses were in the Bergen area > (Vaksdal); 'object' (high) in the eastern part of the sky; a > _stationary_ (for about 1 hour), flashing light; green on > 'top' and red at the "bottom": > http://www.bergens-tidende.no/vis.html?id=12480 >2) "In the morning"; witnesses in the Stavanger area; between > 3:00 am and 6:00 am (?); a meteorite with a blue tail; (high) > in the eastern part of the sky. >Any plausible explanation here? Could these sightings be similar >to the Canadian sightings? Or, maybe similar sightings from >witnesses in other parts of the world? >Best Regards, >AWS I recieved the following report: This is a report of an unknown object sighted two days ago: On November 4, 1998 at approximately 8:30 pm, I was walking in a parking lot in Plymouth with a friend, when I noticed a huge green fireball streak from overhead, heading towards the northwest, and decending towards the earth. The object left a long green trail, much like a comet, and it was very bright. It seemed very low in altitude, because it was below the overcast ceiling, and it was bright enough that I could see it decend behind some apartments across the street, even though the floursecent lights of a nearby gas station were between me and the object. The sighting lasted between one and two seconds, and took place in the southwest corner of the intersection of County Road 9 and Plymouth Blvd. Ryan S. Eagan, MN 55121 Joel Henry Minnesota MUFON ***************************************************** Minnesota MUFON Webmaster
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Chat with Erich Von Daniken From: Yvonne Hedenland <vonni_h@email.msn.com> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:05:46 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:48:15 -0500 Subject: Chat with Erich Von Daniken Erich Von Daniken Arrival of the Gods Ever since Erich von Daniken's book "Chariots of the Gods?", the concept of ET having visited Earth thousands of years ago has gained momentum. From the archaleogical ruins of Nazca, Peru to the Great Pyramid at Giza in Egypt, Daniken has excited millions of people throughout the world with his theories. Join the UFO Community on MSN this Monday, November 9th at 6pm, PT for a very special chat where you'll ask the questions of this historic guest. This chat is available at http://communities.msn.com/ufo The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com and the room or channel name is #briefing.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Project Silverbug From: Kenny Young - T.A.S.K. <task@fuse.net> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 19:24:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:50:42 -0500 Subject: Project Silverbug PROJECT SILVERBUG This message is to inform of a recent article regarding the controversial 'Project Silverbug'. This interesting and information-packed article was produced by George Belanus, a researcher from Bridgeport, Ohio. Belanus has been a part-time writer and reporter for several newspapers including The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. The report is located at: http://home.fuse.net/task/Silverbug.htm Contact information for Belanus is also listed at this location. -- UFO Research
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Genetic Breakthrough Validates Sitchin's 'Cosmic From: Prophets <prophets@maui.net> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 15:54:37 -1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:55:33 -0500 Subject: Genetic Breakthrough Validates Sitchin's 'Cosmic Breakthrough genetic discoveries that are making front page news this week only emulate methods employed 300,000 years ago to bring about Homo sapiens, says author of 'The Cosmic Code', a book just published by Avon Books. The author, Zecharia Sitchin, who has claimed in his 'Earth Chronicles' series that ancient myths relate factual data, relies on detailed texts written in ancient Sumer thousands of years ago, according to which visitors to Earth from the planet "Nibiru" engaged in genetic engineering to 'upgrade' hominids who had evolved on Earth to intelligent humans, Homo sapiens. 'The Cosmic Code' relates in detail the Sumerian assertions, and finds that sophisticated genetic knowledge was also encoded in languages and scripts that were used when the Anunnaki - "Those Who From Heaven to Earth Came" - dictated information to chosen individuals. The genetic code, Sitchin says, is Mankind's link to the cosmos. ______________________________________________________ For more information go to New York Times Nov.6, 1998 article: http://www.nytimes.com/ http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/science/sci-stem-cells.html Zecharia Sitchin will discuss genetic breakthrough and Cosmic Code on the Laura Lee Radio Show, Saturday, Nov.7 http://www.lauralee.com Available on RealAudio Zecharia Sitchin - http://www.aloha.net/~axiom/sitchin.html _____________________________________________________ To subscribe or unsubscribe from The Prophets Conference list: Send a message to <prophets@maui.net> In the body of the message type: Subscribe or Unsubscribe prophets/axiom- mailing lists Also change of address Questions, comments, issues? Send mail to Cody Johnson- <axiom@aloha.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 'Down to Earth' - Rates & Information From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:11:03 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:00:23 -0500 Subject: 'Down to Earth' - Rates & Information Dear Colleagues, I am posting this information,in response to the many inquiries regarding the Advertising Rates for our publication "Down to Earth" the official Essex & London UFO Magazine. At this present time, Down to Earth have the cheapest advertising, within the UK. We are also the least expensive UFO magazine in the UK shops at =A32.oo per issue. For everyone who e-mailed me for Ad Rates they are listed below. BOXED AD: - 10p per word per month 1/4 Page Ad: - =A34.00 per month 1/2 Page Ad: - =A38.00 per month Full Page Ad: - =A312.00 per month Discounts are given to those who Advertise over multiple issues. Down to Earth also Advertise group meetings / Lectures FREE OF CHARGE regardless of Country. For further information you can contact the following people. Editor: Roy Hale - roy_hale@yahoo.com for inquiries on FREE Group Ads / Article Placements/ General Magazine information. Co-editor: Brian Jessop - brian_jessop@yahoo.com for all paying Advertisers / Advert discounts. For those who wish to purchase a copy of Down to Earth, and are unable to reach the shops you can secure yourself a copy by Mail Order, enclosing a cheque / postal order for =A32.50p for p&p =A32.00 for magazine 0.50p for posting. Send to: Roy Hale (ELUFON) 21 Sparrow Green , Bull Lane Dagenham Essex RM10 7EU U.K. The editor / co-editor reserves the right to refuse adverts, if we feel they are not appropriate for our magazine. We would also welcome, any researcher / investigator / group / who would like to write an article/ news piece / general information on the UFO subject. For inquiries of this nature please contact myself at the above. We would welcome articles from both "Believers" and "Non - Believers" of the ETH, as we feel this gives a fair balance, but we will only accept constructive positive non - slanderous articles on the UFO subject, we want to leave the dog fights outside the door. If any of you are still not sure on any of the above, then please do not hesitate to contact me on the above e-mail address. Wishing you all the best, Roy..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Re: Music & UFOs From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:35:37 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:07:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Music & UFOs >Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 20:19:01 -0500 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Music & UFOs >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Gilles Milot <milotg@Magnola.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Music & UFOs >>Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:19:55 -0500 ><snip> >>Let start a band 'The UFO Blues Band' or 'The Grey Philarmonic >>Music Band' >I think it ought to be the Average Grey Band. Nah, the "Above Average Grey Band" <G> --- In an infinite universe inifinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 In The 'Spotlight': Derrel Sims From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:40:12 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:20:37 -0500 Subject: In The 'Spotlight': Derrel Sims [Now, if _this_ doesn't raise a kaka-storm..... <VBG> --ebk] In the Spotlight: Derrel Sims By David Taub & Jolene Rae Harrington Derrel Sims is not a man one can easily pin down to conduct an interview with, given the fact that he is in great demand world-wide for speaking engagements and lectures. Even as this article is committed to paper, Derrel is rushing off to Europe. And regarding the background research to this article, I wish to thank Jolene Rae Harrington. Without her help, this exclusive on Derrel may have taken far longer. In fact it was not possible to conduct the 'question and answer session' in one straight 'sitting'. Rather it was a combination of several sessions, some of which are attributed to Jolene Rae Harrington. For continuity of reading, I have not distinguished which questions were asked by Jolene or myself, nor in which 'sessions' they occurred. Therefore this is a true 'team-effort', if not an 'unusual interview' indeed! Derrel is a charismatic and multi-talented Texan, standing over six feet tall. His diverse array of talents and accomplishments includes two kinds of Scuba Instructorships and a 4th degree Black Belt in Japanese Karate, although he received no formal training in either discipline. Perhaps it is his Cherokee heritage that is responsible for his uncanny kinship with animals. Over the years, he has kept a menagerie of exotic pets which at one time included a Bengal tiger, a mountain lion, and two giant pythons. Derrel holds certifications in Medical Hypnotherapy - a Board Certified Hypnotic Anesthesiologist (simply put, he's the guy who will put you under if you need it in surgery, using only Hypnosis). In addition he is a professional 'Master Hypnotherapist', teaching and certifying people in Hypnotherapy and his specialized training techniques. Finally, Derrel achieved 'Master level' at Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP) - something the Vice President and Tony Robbins are interested in. For 34 years, Derrel Sims has been investigating the phenomenon of alleged alien abduction, and is on the cutting-edge of the science, which is often referred to as 'Ufology'. His own first-hand experiences and the hundreds of abduction cases he has worked with personally, has enabled him to develop a unique and often controversial perspective on this wide-spread yet greatly misunderstood curiosity. In fact, Sims is the first investigator to be actively courted by and receive enthusiastic support of many in 'mainstream science'. As a UFO investigator, Derrel has had the distinction of speaking to 250 Surgeons and Doctors in an American Medical Association sponsored program of continuing education concerning the topic, "MEDICAL : COMPLICATIONS OF ALLEGED HUMAN/ALIEN CONTACT". Some courageous individuals in academia have expressed their astonishment and/or co-operation; from MIT to the University of California at San Diego, to the National Institute for the Developing Sciences. Not surprisingly, then Sims has been acknowledged as a dedicated pioneer in the study of this intriguing field. Nor is it surprising that he has captivated audiences from around the world with his animated delivery, appealing blend of humor and South-western charm, and his approach to bizarre and sometimes frightening subject matter. Besides being a sought-after public speaker and frequent radio guest, he has two television specials on his work already in pre-production. Questions asked for Unknown magazine (UN) by David Taub & Jolene Rae Harrington. Answers by Derrel Sims (DS) Un: How would you describe your 'occupation' - and how do you pay the bills for your work? DS: My interest and full time job is in the Medical/Scientific evidence of Human/alien contact. I am not really sure what an "alien" is or what an "alien implant" is. I think that if these claims can hold up under Medical/Scientific scrutiny, we may have a direction to go that is coherent and perhaps will be consistent in its findings. I get paid for hypnotic anesthesiology and speciality medical and other services I provide in association with health- care professionals. My primary work is in the speciality of pain management by teaching visualization and guided Imagery as a self-help modality for the alleviation or amelioration of unwanted or unnecessary fear, tension and anxiety concomitant with pain. Some of this work involves outpatient work with patients in and out of the operating room. Some persons take some local anesthetics with the hypnotic anesthesia and some utilize only the hypnotic anesthesia. Some persons have allergic reactions to certain anesthetics, and as a result will call upon the work that I do to assist them in the pain management and other concerns. Un: So, how do you charge those 'subjects' you investigate who require surgical or medical work. Or is the work funded by some other means? DS: We do not and have never charged any alleged abductee one penny for any work done for them in our research. I have some sense of what has happened to them and my heart goes out to them. I cannot (personally) charge them money for the work I do for them. No alleged abductee has ever paid for any medical, surgical or other work we have done for them at F.I.R.S.T. - the medical/scientific 'not for profit' organization Dr. Leir and I have set up for this purpose. All donations and benefactors contributions go toward the work we do. These procedures are quite expensive and the physical evidence studies from the surgeries are amazing and very expensive to get evaluated. In some cases, we have scientist who do contribute this. For this we are very grateful. I am often hired, given a grant for a project, or spend my own money for an expedition to uncover some new evidence. Some of the people in our church asked me to do a full fledged presentation on UFOs, abduction and what the evidence really shows. After the program a lady at our church funded my expedition to Peru. Three people will accompany me on the trip. Others will join us when we get there. Some people think that Mr. Robert Bigelo finances all we do. This is not true. His foundation financed 3 surgeries for the removal of alleged implants, and the first (not last) phase of the scientific analysis done at New Mexico Tech and Los Alamos Labs. That is the extent of the Bigelo Foundation financing. We are grateful for their contributions and they have fulfilled their commitments to us, as they promised. These people do not throw the money away. You must account for every dollar and the exact way it is to be spent. It is a difficult process, and a necessary one. Un: Just to 'start from the beginning', so to speak, tell me about your education - did you go to college or directly into the military? DS: I went to NMSU for 1 1/2 years after high school, I volunteered for the military during the Vietnam war. I was "sheep dipped'' out of the military and placed quietly into the "company"...for 2 years. I was in covert ops during the Vietnam war. I was in the country for 2 years and spent one year in Korea-from 1970 until 1971. Un:: Okay, lets talk about the military in a moment, but when you went to college, what did you want to study? DS: At the recommendation of a scientist (a friend of my father) at White Sand Proving Ground, I took a senior psychology course for my freshman year. That was tough. I learned two things. One was that many of the people taking the course needed help and were taking the course to help themselves. Even the professor mentioned this and told these people to set up an appointment and not to pay for the class. The second thing I learned was that this was not the field I wanted to be in. Un: Okay. So back to the military - which branch were you in? DS: I was a volunteer in the US Army and was an E-5 (buck sergeant) when I got out. My MOS was 95 bravo 40, senior military police officer. Under the status of forces agreement, I also was a Korean police officer. UN: When you said the "company" a few moments ago, are you referring to the CIA. DS: Yes, of course. The CIA does not call itself the CIA, it always refers to itself, affectionately, as the "company" UN: And what did you mean when you said you were 'Sheep-dipped".? Does that mean the CIA selected you to work for them and then returned you to the regular military? DS: That is correct. It is called "sheep dipping". They dip into the 'sheep' and take out what they want for the period of time they need to do that and this is based on tests, evaluations, trustworthiness, skills, and the like. Un: A lot of folks say that once you are in with the CIA, you are with them for good - Once an agent always an agent. DS: This is obviously not true, ask Frank Agee, Marchetti etc. This is where my debunkers really went wrong. I was not a CIA agent and never claimed to be one. What people think of as a CIA agent is really what is called a "case officer." He is at the lowest end of the food chain (in the spying part of the business). He acquires "assets and agents." A real CIA agent is someone hired, acquired, or obtained by hook or by crook, to give over secrets, documentation, or pertinent data needed by the headquarters via the chief of station in the country you work. These people sometimes know they are paid informants, many times these assets do not know how or what they are being used for. In some cases a "proprietary" corporation will be created or better if one is found to exist in a country and fronted. These corporations will function normally, i.e., as an American "cement company in Argentina". The company (with the owners knowledge) will comply, be cause he is an "agent" and will be "witting" to the game. He will continue business as usual and will, of course, acquire contracts and outright front money for the success of the cement company. The field officer will have agents and any other operatives to be employees, executives, "salesmen" and the like to filter throughout the company to move around and be inconspicuous in their real work. Proprietaries are as old as the Ninja themselves. Ninja were realistically spies and assassins (when necessary) for a clan that worked for a local ruler or shogun. I was not Mr. Super-spy and all of that and never claimed to. I did do some spying on some of the company people, at one time, on orders from the chief of security in our sector. I did not like this and felt like if we can't trust our own, we're are in trouble. I know you need internal controls and checks, that was not what this was. I am unable to go into details. Much more will be in my book. UN:: Have you done any work for or with the CIA since the 70's? DS: Absolutely not. We did not part on good terms. It will be in the book. (Derrel refers to a book he is writing for future publication) UN) Just changing the subject - There are a number of 'investigators - researchers' in the field of Ufology who, it turns out, have not had any personal 'first-hand' experience. I guess that's why there are some pretty ardent 'debunkers', too. Have you ever had an encounter with a UFO or an alien? DS: Yes, This occurred in 1952, 5 years after the US ARMY AIRFORCE ATOMIC BOMB WING admitted they had a crashed UFO at Roswell, New Mexico. I ended up with a 'scoop' mark on my shin, which was a cauterized wound, the next morning. Since we did not have this type of technology then, I assume my 'experience' may have been based upon real events. I remember the events consciously. The cauterized area of the scoop mark (common to alleged abductees) is an area that has been exposed to intensive UV light, and is only indigenous to the affected area in question. It is known in medical pathology as 'Solar Elastosis' I was left with a 'memory' - "You fell down and hurt yourself !" But why would I (as a 4 year old) speak in the 2nd person to myself? This event changed my views of 'reality'. One could imagine "You made it all up." I would not tell my parents (You're instructed not to). My parents knew something was wrong and placed me between themselves the next night. 'They' came anyway and my parents did not awaken. My dad is a very light sleeper. At this point I knew my parents could not protect me from whatever 'they' were or what 'they did'. Many abductees feel 'all alone' and often blame parents for not protecting them, yet they do not know why. Un: Can you describe the 'being' that abducted you? DS: The first 'being' that I ever recall consciously was a being not much taller than me, pure white, very skinny and larger round black eyes, and no belly button and no Tee-shirt. Those are the things you notice as kid, when someone doesn't wear clothes. I thought that the beings people often report now, were made up, because I never saw one with almond-shaped eyes. I guess the ones I saw, way back then, were the 'Ford models', and theses new 'clones' are the 'Lexus versions'. UN: Have you been abducted more recently ? In fact, are you still being abducted? DS: There is no evidence that I am. My events started at age 4 and ended quite violently at 17. I have not had return visits by 'them'. The events are familial, and seem to be about 'them' wanting what we have. 'They' are often described by abductees as "Not having a soul." After speaking to my colleague, a psychologist, when he interviewed me after a horrific final abduction, when I was 17, he said, "Well Derrel, this is not consistent with the way it's going to be. They are going to land on the White House lawn and give the President a device to study their civilization." I looked at my researcher friend, realizing he did not have a clue, and said, "Doc, I already saw the movie. It's not happening like that." Whatever we thought or think about who 'they' are, and what 'they' are, and why 'they' are here, we better rethink. 'They ' are not who we think they want us to think they are. And after my last event, I am afraid for us all. Un: Derrel, there are so many other questions that I would like to ask you, and Unknown magazine and its readers appreciate your time, but we realise how hectic a schedule you have. So a last closing question - Do you personally believe governments are hiding information about alien encounters? I mean, do you think they have evidence such as 'captured aliens', space crafts and the like? DS: By their own admission, I would say yes. Having been in the CIA for 2 years, and being a world class investigator in this field, I would say yes. I may be privy to information you can't get on the six o'clock news. The Chilean government has set up a civilian (UFO investigators) which I consult, and Government military people to study this phenomena. The Belgium Government puts the gun-camera film on their six o'clock news. I have access to scientists who claim to have back engineered alleged alien technology. We shall soon see. We are co-producing a number of TV programs concerning the 'proof' of what is alleged by medical / scientific persons, who are tired of the 'cover-ups'. Some of these are NASA scientists. By and large the bulk of scientists and government officials do not know about 'Alien anything'. They are as unknowing as many of us. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For more information about Derrel Sims, the organisations he heads, and activities he is involved with the following details will be of interest: Derrel Sims, CM.Ht., R.H.A. Director of Physical Investigations SABER ENTERPRISES P.O. Box 60944 Houston, Texas 77205 WEB PAGES AT: ALIENHUNTER.org FIRSTevidence.org ______________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Re: 'Cleveland Video' - Complications From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 07:29:38 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:26:40 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Cleveland Video' - Complications Hi Stig, Errol More from my friend in Cleveland: ----- Not true. Original VHF stations were assigned 3 letters, but that practice ceased as stations proliferated in the fifties. Currently in Cleveland, in VHF, are: WKYC TV3 (NBC) WEWS TV5 (ABC) WJW TV8 (Fox) WEWS was the first television station in Cleveland, recently celebrating its 50th anniversary. Sean Jones wrote: > " VHF broadcasters have only 3 letters in their FCC > call signs, not 4. " More thoughts on the "sighting" Commuter flights from Detroit to Cleveland & back fly across the lake at about 10K feet. This is a short flight and the airlines that service the route use turbo-prop planes (which do fly low and slow). Additionally, Cleveland's alternate airport, Burke Lakefront, is on the shore of the lake. It services a number of small commuter airlines in addition to hundreds of private and corporate planes. The approach and departure routes from this airport all go over the lake. ANY traffic coming towards Cleveland across the lake would be picked up on ATC radar at Cleveland Center in Oberlin. There's also the four tv stations operating Super Doppler radar. Most weather fronts that affect Cleveland come across the lake. Therefore, all weather radar units are oriented with a lakefront view. After reading the other viewpoints, I'd conclude that this was an aircraft. Roger Scott "Taking Back The Net For Film Buffs" filmbuffs.guide@miningco.com http://filmbuffs.miningco.com ============================= Help Save CINERAMA Support The Cinerama Preservation Society ----- In an infinite universe inifinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 03:30:50 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:33:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:15:20 -0800 (PST) >From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >>Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:06:18 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Alien Hoax Dismays Scientists >(sorry, this is a bit of a rant..) >I'm starting to cringe at these messages. Why does there seem to >be an almost outright hatred of SETI efforts by the people on >this list? >SETI isn't some huge monolithic government agency with a hive >mind, its individual astronomers dedicating their own precious >time and often money to global efforts to actually _do_ >something. Should we as a civilisation stop looking just because >some people claim to just *know* that ETs are buzzing around in >spacecraft..its almost as if (I hesitate to use the term) "true >believers" view SETI as a threat encroaching into their >"territory" or as a herasy to their faith. >Seems to be getting awfully easy for anyone to push people's "oh >my, its a conspiracy!" buttons these days. You can use all sorts >of dubious methods to make bizarre and outlandish claims, but >all is forgiven if you start hinting at opression by vast >shadowy powers and and start mentioning agents in black cars >etc. Am I the only person who finds Mr Dore's latter tale >unbelievable? The supposed GSCHQ & RAF officers broke their own >security rules by even mentioning that a secret satellite exists >then they helpfully broke them again by giving a >project/codeword. Isn't this a little absurd...I suspect Dore is >just covering his posteria after making a mistake or playing a >prank that went way out of his control..he simply knows what >will play well with his "audience" Flame away.. >K I've been away a couple of days and I'm just catching up. At this point in this thread I started to laugh. Just like the rest of you I followed this trail email stone after stone. That was a chore after the exhaustive Ed Stewart vs. Jerry Clark episode trail. However partisan I may be, I placed my bets on Jerry Clark (as I did with the democratic party) and I cleaned up on all bets. Even though it was a long journey, the Paul Dore Affair renewed my will to the point that it now has me laughing over the whole thing. A rather deluded chap posted his his pronouncement that he made auditory contact "out there", not directly a la contactees but through a radio signal received by his very own dish. What great hoax art. The plotter creates his own X Files on UpDates and instantly gets a rabid audience racing down the internet trail. His art was not in posting his mania. The true art was displayed by the postings attached to the thread he created. For example, the previous posting outlining the silencing of SETI by cigarette smoking men was another X Files episode imagined. Someone has been watching too many X Files to concoct this level of performance paranoia. Great art, it makes me roll with laughter. Sort of reminds me of the movie "Red Planet Mars", where a ham radio operator picked up a signal from Martians bent on destroying Earth. He sat up all night trying to think up the equation to stop them. In the morning his wife was standing outside his door offering him a piece of pie for breakfast. He proclaimed "Pie, that's it! Pi is just what I was looking for to complete my equation". Thus Earth was saved! I haven't seen it in many years but the memory always gets me laughing. After several decades I still have a great passion for serious UFO research and I can only laugh over the demented hoaxsters and hustlers who are a plague upon Ufology. Those who take them seriously get quite a learning lesson out on those limbs. What an art, the nurturing of the naive in Ufology. The P.T. Barnum school of research. When will this Nazi Saucer business ever end? It is pretty clear by now that the Germans never had the operational saucers, etc. That knowledge did not come until Bob Lazar discovered all the answers while employed in the hottest chamber within the great mother hive, Area S4 at "the ranch". Perhaps Lazar reigns as the Da Vinci of hoax art. He must have had the gals at the brothel near orgasm as he described the inner workings of the sport model. Talk of Element 115 perhaps brought them over the edge. You have to ask Gene Huff, a great hoaxmate. For the truth of the Dore affair I second the idea of asking Richard Hoagland. Perhaps he reigns as the Picasso of hoaxmasters. He must be the one person who can describe how the cigarette smoking men silenced SETI and forced them to ridicule Dore. Of course that would be after he tells you how NASA hid the 'Face', how they have hired more airbrushers to hit those photos as soon as they get to Earth from Mars. I can easily understand how Germans are offended by the approaches of some bogus researchers. My partner is a German. She and I discussed this point again today. She was born after the war, sings about love, yet still gets discriminated against because she is German. Even though she is a major pop star in Germany and several other European countries, we have met some people, fortunately a small minority, who have closed doors just because she is German and that she can not be forgiven for the horrors of the Nazis. I don't want to downplay those horrors, but the German people have examined and atoned very heavily about that dark period. If you go to Germany you can see how society and the educational system are designed to prevent anything of that sort from happening again. So why blame the people for the sins of their fathers? It's like a Native American blaming me for what the calvary and ignorant people did to his ancestors. I grew up Jewish in Anmerica and had a great deal of open discrimination from a small minority of kids. Miko and I discussed that many people don't realize, or forget, that Germany has also had many great centuries where they have provided a wealth of knowledge, culture, and goodness to the world. Any further speculation about Nazi saucers that does not contain real evidence only prolongs the problem. Thankfully, when I returned to LA after two years, that pesky fly of a Nazi Saucer hoaxster, the extremely wacky Vladimir Terzitsky, was gone and not making a psycho spectacle of himself at LA Mufon meetings. I hope he did not fly into your woods. Perhaps he is now writing Nazi saucers articles under a pen name. Perhaps he froze to death in Antartica while searching for them. Don Ecker, if you're out there ol'buddy, thanks for a couple of months ago posting an update about the one person whose name I had hoped to never hear or think about ever again. The worst of the ranters and ravers to ever besmirch ufology. I will never type his name but his initials are W.C. Your update referred to how he had become a militia member (I wasn't at all surprised) and was staging a showdown with authorities over non-payment of taxes or some other militia folly. They were going to have to kill him to capture him. What was the disposition? Is he dead or alive? If you listmates haven't guessed yet, he was a buddy of good ol' John (what a case) Lear until he turned things ugly and they had a battle of the paranoia titans. If W.C. has succeeded in fighting off the U.S. will he join Bo Gritz to finally defeat the assorted aliens in our midst? Will the militia make their
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Alfred's Odd Ode #279 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 07:15:44 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:39:15 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #279 Apology to MW #279 (For November 7, 1998) The tiniest voice from the farthermost place is heard in a whisper, a murmur -- a trace? Other's have turned their big ears to the source, have heard and recorded some signaled discourse? This has my attention (!), and so it should -- you! There is LIFE _not_ from here (?), and that's VALUBLE news! But we hear it the least, and it comes from the fringe -- besotted and drunken with rumor, I cringe. And, of course we are prudent for using good science. But use shan't impede a _progressive_ alliance. It shan't hold us back, it's a SLAVE not a Master -- a start, a beginning, _no_ retreat to disaster! We open our arms to *potential*, it's true! And the lives that we've planned could be changed -- or renewed! But open your eyes, and take stock when you dare; it's better you _know_; it's _better_ they're there! Their presence alone would demand our alliance, and push us to SPACE, and a new self reliance. We'd clean up our act, and we'd do the _smart_ thing; no longer alone, we would CARE what *they* think. Moslem and Christian and Heathen, and Jew could all link their arms and would share out a view. Gone -- the derision for women and gays, we find that they're human, more "us" (friend) than "they"! All this dangles -- on a _message_ . . . that's so weak, it can't be heard. It takes a _lot_ of tech equipment, and the software to concur. And _we_ must take the word of, then, the few that _do_ the lookin', and the FEW who say they heard it -- is it real (?), are they rookin'? We can't know (that's you and I), we just wonder while we work. We listen to the worthless news and try to stay alert. The common disrespected, we'd have our right to know what the very FEW have KEPT from us since time began to show. But just *THINK* (!) it's a voice from beyond the old limits! Let's *REJOICE* (!) we're released, as the _old_ way inhibits! We're STRENGTHENED to find out that we're not alone; our metal is tested; we're NOT driven prone. We'll fly to the moons and the asteroid belts; we'll breath up pure star stuff, and learn a NEW health. We'll laugh, and we'll sing; we'll depend on ourselves. We'll find new realities ringing our bells! And the tone could be sweet, and so pure, grand, and strong (!) -- or hollow and empty . . . and futile and wrong! A challenge from voices far _off_ in deep space. A ghost of a whisper that paints a scared face. It's all up to us, and the actions we take. Are we talented humans, or talent-less fakes? We have the accoutrements, do we have what's been needed! Will we waste our potential? Will we stay so conceited? Can we cop to the end of our terrible loneliness; can we wrest from our fear what it takes and withholds from us? All from a voice that may come from deep space? What is our future? Is it pride, or disgrace? Lehmberg@snowhill.com Or worse -- futility! Ms. Douglass? That address? I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't ask folks to send ME the money, and _I'll_ hold it for John until he's free! <g> ~~ Hey, why NOT -- The day he was free he would get every penny SENT me. I so solemnly swear! I'd likely be his best shot at it, at any rate. This way, he would have _something_, after the jail time, that the legal profession hadn't sucked from his veins. YES! Certainly enough to keep a light on for him. . .$100 dollars pledged, and collected so far. Send your checks and money orders to _me_ (cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. Only thin, _very light_ envelopes with a return address will be accepted <g>. Restore John Ford! -- Explore the Alien View! Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ <Updated 12 September> "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 16:47:14 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:41:38 -0500 Subject: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? Hi all, I read following article in the latest UFO Magazine(UK) and somehow it really bothered me... *** CAA Warns Pilots: No Photographs Of Crop Circles ENGLAND - Noted English crop circle-researcher Colin Andrews has claimed that the british Civil Aviation Authority [CAA] sent officials to mingle with the audience at a crop circle conference held in late July at Glastonbury. Seemingly, the officials were looking for people selling crop circle photos that had been taken from the air. Andrews said that pilots who do not hold a commercial pilot's licence are reportedly not permitted to fly anybody who is engaged in a commercial act while in flight. This means that taking any crop circle photo from the air for commercial purposes is prohibited. According to Andrews, crop circle researchers who attend conferences and engage in selling such photos for sale in magazines, have been targeted to identify the local pilots who have been essential to crop circle research, past and present. Threatened with the loss of their licences, these pilots might now be forced to stop flying anyone over crop circles. Official wawrnings have already gone out telling pilots not to engage in these flight. "This has created a very serious situation...for arial work in England this year, and places future recording of crop circles in Great Britain in jeopardy," Andrews said. *** What's going on there? Colin, Busty, anyone...??? Best wishes, Andy Denne Abduction & Ufo Research Assocoation Nijmegen, The Netherlands aura@telekabel2.nl
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:07:44 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:44:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore Larry Hatch wrote ... >Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 02:32:59 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore >Hi Brian: >As far as I know, and 'equinox' is a fixed point in the stellar >sphere .. as in vernal or autumnal equinox. It does not change >from one decade to the next. >Since everything in the solar system perturbs everything else, >sort of an n-body problem where the 3-body problem has never >been resolved, I understand that an 'epoch' is declared every so >many years based on observation rather than theory. Thus at the >epoch 1980, for example, each planet has such-and-such orbital >position and properties ( apehelion, perihelion etc. etc.). >This is something like a de-facto data inventory, rather than >the results of some humongous computer run. >This is a major headache for me, as I have an astronomical >routine built into my UFO Database software .. as a means of >testing 'Venus' explanations and the like. I finally settled on >epoch 1980, so that planetary positions far from that date are >less and less accurate. Alas! Larry, This is wandering a bit off-topic for a UFO group, but since it affects your UFO Database software, let me clear you up a bit on equinox versus epoch. Astronomically, epoch refers to the actual date for which actual observations are made or positions calculated. The observed or calculated positions are precise for that epoch only. Epochs are usually adopted to be standard years (eg, 1950 or 2000), but can actually be anything you want. I have seen epochs like 1980.25 for example. So why are positions precise only for a given epoch? Well, because the earth precesses like a top in space, and consequently celestial coordinate systems change with that precession. Hence the celestial coordinates (of a star for example) will be different in 1950 and 2000. Different epochs, different coordinates. Its all due to precession of the earth's poles. This is where equinox comes in. You can apply mathematical precession formulas to a position at a given epoch, and calculate where the position will be at a different date. This different date is called the "equinox". Thus for example you can precess an epoch 1950 star position to 1998, and the resulting new position is called the equinox 1998 position. Its not the original observed position - its a calculated position derived from the observed position at some epoch. Well anyway, that's how astronomers use it. And yes there is an autumnal (fall) equinox, and a vernal (spring) equinox. But here equinox means something different - its the date at which the Sun crosses the equator moving south or north, and consequently day and night are the same length (equinox meaning "equal night" or something like that). Isn't arcane terminology wonderful? By the way, I do have my own versions of astronomical precession routines (for converting positions at one equinox to another) which I use in an astronomical deepsky program I sell. (see http://www.willbell.com/software/index.htm and select HyperSky) The precession outines are written in C, and I'd consider providing them to you if you could use them in your UFO Database package. Any further discussions of this should probably be taken "offline" from the UpDates email list, since we'd probably put the good list members to sleep discussing astro/computational arcania. Regards,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 Paul Dore to Speak on Laura Lee Show Tonight From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:56:21 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:57:50 -0500 Subject: Paul Dore to Speak on Laura Lee Show Tonight Date: 98-11-07 16:10:39 EST From: ********************demon.co.uk (paul dore) To: Ufoseek@aol.com Thank you for the help. Sorry, for being a bit abrupt the other day, but this whole saga is getting a bit tiresome. I am grateful you have updated your site to point out that I am not the person behind all this. PS: I will be a guest on the Laura Lee show (this evening) to explain the ridiculousness of this whole story ------------------------------------------------------- Laura Lee Show Saturday nights 7pm - 2am PST / 10pm - 5am EST http://www.lauralee.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------- "Pictures of SETI Signals from unknown engineer in the UK" Contact1450 - Mirror Site: UPDATED (since Nov.3) http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/ Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 NewsFlash: UFO News Sightings From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:10:21 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 21:03:46 -0500 Subject: NewsFlash: UFO News Sightings From: Iam Dorian> To: <Ndunlks@aol.com> (Researcher Steven L. Wilson, Sr) From: Capt AJ 3 http://www.bufora.org.uk/times/news/news.htm UFO News Sightings UFO News New Information or Dis-information? WASHINGTON (AP) -- With growing hysteria over alleged UFO sightings in the 1950s, the Air Force repeatedly concocted false cover stories to hide the fact that their super-secret spy planes had been spotted, an intelligence study says. Historian Gerald K. Haines writes that the Air Force, responding to alleged UFO sightings during the Cold War years, frequently provided explanations that were untrue to deflect attention away from the spy planes. "Over half of all UFO reports from the late 1950s through the 1960s were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights (namely the U-2) over the United States," Haines wrote in the spring issue of Studies of Intelligence, an unclassified CIA journal. The article was found Saturday on the Internet. Concern about the public finding out about the secret spy planes "led the Air Force to make misleading and deceptive statements to the public in order to allay public fears and to protect an extraordinarily sensitive national security project," Haines wrote. "While perhaps justified, this deception added fuel to the later conspiracy theories and the cover-up controversy" regarding the existence of UFOs, he added. Haines, a historian at the National Reconnaissance Office, based his article on a review of CIA documents from the late 1940s to 1990. He described how the Air Force sought to deflect attention from the development of its high- altitude experimental aircraft, the U-2 and the SR-71. The early U-2s were silver and reflected the sun's rays, especially at sunrise and sunset, and often appeared as fiery objects to people below, Haines said. The U-2s were later painted black. Air Force investigators "aware of the secret U-2 flights tried to explain away such sightings by linking them to natural phenomena such as ice crystals and temperature inversions," Haines wrote. By 1956, the Air Force internally had clear explanations for 96 percent of all UFO sightings, Haines wrote, referring to the experimental aircraft. "They were careful, however, not to reveal the true cause of the sighting to the public." He also said the CIA, during the height of the Cold War, hid its involvement in studies into UFO sightings because the agency was concerned if word came out it would lead to a national hysteria that could be exploited by the Soviet Union. The director of space policy at the Washington-based Federation of American Scientists, John E. Pike, said the study raises questions about other possible government cover-ups involving unidentified flying objects. "The flying-saucer community is definitely onto something" in accusing the military of hiding something, Pike told The New York Times, which reported on the study in Sunday's edition. Haines' study, "CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90," is available on the Internet at: http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ufo.html.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 7 ASP - Intuiting 'Entities' in Time to Resist From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 18:51:28 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 21:08:14 -0500 Subject: ASP - Intuiting 'Entities' in Time to Resist In her new book, 'How To Defend Yourself Against Alien Abduction', Ann Druffel summarizes the various ways in which individuals have resisted the approach of entities --- potential abductors. The following extract is from the chapter on 'Resistance Technique #6: Intuition': It is apparent that the earlier an experiencer detects the approach of harassing entities, the better resistance techniques work. Although many abductees report that they suddenly awaken aboard a craft with the abduction prodecures already under way, many other experiencers often perceive a progression of events before the creatures take charge. In general, the progression of events can be listed as follows: 1. The experiencers detect presences, indicating that the entities' approach is imminent. 2. They experience a feeling of anxiety of the beginning of the loss of conscious will. 3. They experience paralysis, either physiological in nature or brought on by terror; that is, "frozen in fear." 4. The entities materialize, increasing the experiencer's terror. 5. The entities produce a feeling of calmness that soothes the witnesses' fear while bringing them under greater control. 6. The witnesses experience teleportation into a craft or other setting they do no recognize, and realize they have been captured. 7. If the experiencer's fear resurfaces, the creatures telepathically convey phrases such as "There is no need to fear" or "It will soon be over". 8. The entities continue with prodecures, seemingly medical or otherwise investigatory in nature. <...> Some withnesses, however, are intuitive to the degree that they can detect the approach of harassing entities long before other experiencers can. These experiencers describe how they receive telepathic messages in their heads that the entities are on their way. Others feel various physiological effects ... that serve as an 'early warning system'. One well-known Los Angeles abductee ... invariably feels a prickling sensation up and down her limbs and the sides of her body, which increses during a period of forty-eight hours before the entities arrive. Druffel speculates: The fact that resistance techniques work more effectively when the experiencer has intuitive advance warning seems to add strength to the hypothesis that the harassing visitors are from an interdimensional source instead of being fully physical and extraterrestrial. And then describes the case of 'Robert Nolan' [not his real name], who is an ex-Marine with combat experience in Viet Nam. Apparently, the same intuitive sense that allowed Nolan to detect the approach of Viet Cong on the battlefield also allowed him to detect the presence of abductors. Initially, Nolan wrote off his experiences as 'bad dreams'. Then it became clear to him that the creatures were harming him. He developed an ear condition that the VA doctors couldn't explain. At this point made a choice. On some occasions, when he didn't want any contact with the creatures, he would use some form of mental struggle to break the paralysis, finding, as most experiencers know, that if the paralysis can be broken the entities will vanish. On other occasions, "... He purposely does not use his combination of resistance techniques because his curiosity about the visitors has recently become stronger than hes desire to prevent harassment. The creatures have become a matter of intense interest to him; his curiosity about them might be the main reason why the visitations continue, because his curiosity is stronger than his determination to rid himself of them permanently. More than one resister in my database is similarly conflicted. At current writing, Nolan still has the ability to break of a visit when he intuitively becomes aware of the creatures' approach and when he does not wish to interact with them." [Source: Druffel, Ann. (1998). _How to Defend Yourself against Alien Abduction_ New York: Three Rivers Press. 111-125] Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com> Trionic Research Institute <http://www.trionica.com>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 Filer's Files #43-1998 From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 08:19:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 08:19:24 -0500 Subject: Filer's Files #43-1998 Source: http://www.ufoinfo.com/filer/1998/ff_4398.html Filer's Files #43-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer: MUFON Eastern Director, October 30, 1998 Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 Filer's Files: sponsored by Global Force Ltd UFOs and the Defense of the United States: The military is losing many of its top personnel including difficult to replace pilots and scientists. This is due to the robust economy, reduction in retirement benefits, heavy overseas commitments and the lack of a clear threat to our nation from other countries. Our military is being reduced and weakened at an alarming rate. Yet, the threat from UFOs in our skies appears to be growing. General Douglas Mac Arthur warned in the NY Times 10/8/55 that, "all the countries on earth will have to unite to survive and to make a common front against attack by people from other planets. It has been the government's policy to ignore this possible threat. During the 50s military budgets were increased to fight communism and to a lessor extent to uncover the identity of UFOs in our skies. Anything unknown can cause public fear and cause Congress to loosen their purse strings. Our radar and satellites continue to track UFOs. Pilots complain of near misses, while hundreds complain of abductions and cattle mutilations. The craft are seen on a regular basis by honest people from all over the world. A few informed people such as Admiral Lord Hill Norton, former President Gerald Ford, the late Colonel Corso and several astronauts have spoken about the possible threat. We encourage Congress to increase government spending on scientific research into the UFO threat. A strong US military has avoided war and saved the lives of our citizens. A weakened military is less able to protect its citizens from terrorism and a feasible alien threat. Temple University Professor, Dr. David Jacob's book, "The Threat" claims the aliens are preparing for a take over by building their resources here on Earth. Recently former JCS Commander John Shalikashvili said, "He could sleep nights because he personally was not afraid of an alien abduction." I know many citizens who are not so lucky. I certainly admit it is also possible that UFOs are a misunderstood natural phenomenon, or black aircraft, but why refuse to research the phenomenon. I encourage the reader to become an informed citizen on how your congressional representative feels about this issue, and to support those who will vote for scientific research in the field. NAVY SUBMARINE UFO ENCOUNTER A sailor reports about the UFO sighting he had while in the Navy. I was assigned to USS Memphis (SSN-698), homeport Titusville, FL. (Cape Canaveral.) Our mission was Special Assignments which meant we protected the Space Program. We would go to sea and patrol while the shuttle was on the pad. Nine years ago, on October 24 and 25, my ship was on patrol about 150 miles of the Florida coast. We were cruising at about 500 feet when the submarine started experiencing electronics problems. The ship was malfunctioning, our tanks were blowing out of control, we were losing navigation ability and the communications area was totally lost. We went to all stop and tried to access what was happening. The controls in the reactor area started to malfunction. This presented a serious danger to our safety, so the captain ordered us to shut down the reactor, surface and go to diesel motors. When the ship surfaced I went to my watch station. The ship was still experiencing electronic difficulties but the mechanical devices such as diesel engines, cook stoves, and turbines were fine. It was raining and the entire sky was red like a red neon sign. I saw a large inverted V-shaped UFO off the port side. The executive officer told me to stand fast and he would speak to the captain. In a minute, the captain appeared on the tower and asked me for a distance to the craft. The laser range finder determined the closest point was 200 meters and the farthest point was 1,000 meters off the port. The UFO was not perpendicular to our ship but at about a 45' angle. This huge vessel was over a half mile across. The UFO made a half circle around our ship then passed across the stern causing our electronics systems to go crazy. We had permanent damage in communications and the sonar room. As the craft flew over the stern, I could see the rain stop under its red glow. The water seemed to rise almost a foot as the UFO passed over silently. When the UFO finished its' swing across the stern it paused - the sky got brighter red and it simply moved off at tremendous speed inside 15 seconds. When the UFO left our boat returned to normal with the exception of the radio and sonar. We did a quick system check and the captain ordered us to return to reactor power and get underway. The captain took two petty officers, the executive officer, and myself into the wardroom. He told us to not spread any rumors until we had a chance to talk to Commander Submarine Fleet - Atlantic. We reached port in about 7 hours where I was taken into "protective custody." Two enlisted men and myself agreed we had witnessed a real UFO. I was the one who shot it with a laser range finder so I was the only one that had its exact sizes. I shot that vessel as it hovered and I got solid readings not spotty like I would on debris. We were in holding for about three hours when an officer from the Air Force arrived and gave us a line of bull about an exploding weather satellite. The Navy then transferred virtually everyone on the crew to new assignments. This included the her captain, the executive officer and the entire crew. They were split up which almost never happens unless one of them gets a promotion or a new command, neither of which happened. The military just split up a 4 year team. I was watching a program tonight that gave me the courage to share it. Editors Note: When a crew reports they have a serious UFO encounter, the standard procedure is to transfer the individuals to new assignments. This procedure costs millions since it may take a year to get a crew into fighting shape. I wonder what is so sinister about these craft? MASSACHUSETTS Brandon Graham sent the following message to Larry Clark who forwarded it to me. "I am a student at Emerson College in Boston. I was driving in early afternoon on the Massachusetts Pike on my way home to Connecticut on October 26, 1998, when I noticed something odd in the sky. I saw what appeared to be a meteor falling toward the earth. It was glowing and emitted a large smoke trail. I immediately glanced to my left and saw what appeared to be a possible military aircraft emitting similar smoke trails flying toward it. The craft had a red light at it's head. I thought it was a missile trying to intercept the meteor. The presumed "meteor" must have been the same type of aircraft, for it didn't plunge toward earth. It arced over the horizon out of my sight. But my attention soon changed to our moon that was visible at this point during the day. To the right of the moon sat a silver horseshoe shaped object. The craft's body was erect and it's two ends each came to a sharp point. It looked like the moon in sliver form in three dimensions, but it didn't move. It was a few miles away and must have been massive. I rolled down my window and began pointing. The other cars on the highway slowed with me the drivers seem to see what I was seeing. There were more of those military jets flying around. As I drove I saw the object from several different perspectives. There was a shadow on the side facing away from the sun. I became very worried. As I attempted to discern its identity, it was not clouds, since they moved away and through the object as it remained stationary. It was not a weather balloon. The distinctive tips were pointing upward and the object was stationary. It was not like any aircraft I have ever seen. It sent shivers down my spine. I watched it for at least ten minutes. I continued to see the weird military jets for the next half hour. Please contact me if you hear any reports that confirm my experience. I guess I have always been an open minded, skeptic. Not anymore! Thanks to Larry Clark and Brandon Graham, PureGuava1@aol.com NEW YORK BEMUS POINT: CAUS reports a recent sighting: "My name is Steve, I am 42 years old, I live in western New York at Bemus Point about a mile from Chautauga Lake. Last Thursday (October 15) I went deer hunting about a mile north of my home, I stayed in the woods till dark and then walked out, stopping first at a friends deer camp. I was sitting on the front porch about 8:00 PM. The sky was very clear and I observed a lighted object above several thousand feet. It would move in all different directions and sometimes stop and then move again. This went on for over 15 minutes. I finally got in my truck and went home. I told one of my brothers-in-law about it and found out that a guy on the other side of the lake has been seeing the same type of activity only much lower to the ground. He could see windows on the UFO. His wife also saw it. They recorded it with their camcorder. But the guy is afraid now to talk for fear of his reputation. He is a CEO at a large company in Jamestown, NY. I would like to know if anyone else in my area has been reporting on this type of activity. CAUS is attempting to obtain the video of the neighbor's close encounter. Thanks to Peter A. Gersten Director of CAUS, web site is at http://caus.org. PUERTO RICO Hector Colon reports seeing a UFO on the North side of the island on October 16, 1998, at about 8:00 PM. The sky has been so beautiful for the last few days. As I was looking at the stars, I noticed that one of the most largest stars in the sky began moving. In ten seconds it multiplied it's speed and vanished into the night skies moving away. This was an experience that I never thought could happen to me. These events made me change my entire belief in intelligent life from a distant place. Thanks to ISUR, John Thomspson and Hector Colon, Phone # 787-270-0302, PO. Box 724, Vega Alta, Puerto Rico 00692 ARIZONA GLOBE: An UFO was sighted on July 15, 1998, in the Tonto National Park by Vilus Stalte a 66 year old retired gentleman. He was rock hunting and searching for geodes when he spied the circular disc craft. The disc appeared to land and then shoot a beam of light towards the rock wall. When the disc departed he went to examine the area where the craft was hovering. He was unable to see any markings or appendages on the smooth metallic disc. There was no sound. Inspection revealed a circular landing site about 15 foot in diameter. A nearby rock wall was scared with what appeared to be burn marks, that could have been made by the beam from the craft. The observer indicated this was his first sighting, since he was a boy in his native Kolka, Latvia. He remembers the weather was warm and he was wearing shorts in the summer 1942. He noticed a torpedo like object flying from south to north. He started running towards the object and realized it had slowed down in speed enough to stay just above his position has he ran along. The torpedo like object seemed to look him over and flew an estimated 25 feet above him. In his judgment the craft was about the same size of a torpedo that are launched from submarines. The craft stayed above him as he ran, when he slowed to a walk the craft sped away. The craft made a very strange high pitched sound. In later years he learned the sound was similar to a jet engine. Thanks to Vilis Stalte who lives at Geiger Key Marina, Key West, Florida 33040. BELGIUM BRUSSELS: Reuters reports that Belgium's civil aviation authority said on Monday it had launched an inquiry to establish the origin of a lump of metal, which fell through a house roof sending a shower of debris onto a baby's empty cot. The metallic object, weighing 1.5 kg (three pounds), smashed through the roof of the home in Dilsen-Stokkem, on Belgium's border with the Netherlands near Maastricht, on October 16, the Belga news agency reported. Thanks to John Thompson WHERE HAVE ALL THE PIGEONS GONE? George Reynolds, the MUFON NE Maryland Director responds to my question about the missing 1,800 homing pigeons that never made it home to their lofts in Allentown, PA, The pigeons were released in Virginia on October 6, 1998, but only 10 percent of the pigeons made it home. That same day about 800 birds released in Western Pennsylvania disappeared during their 150 mile trip home to Phoenixville, PA. Normally, less than 5% of the birds fail to return home. An almost a 90% loss is unheard of! Pigeons navigate by a combination of vision, detection of the earth's magnetic field, and even smell. Also, an unusually high number of deer kills have also been reported. One was hit by a car in front of my suburban home yesterday. Andrew Griffin writes that the dogs and birds are acting strange in Waxahachie, Texas. The birds have been diving on him while the dogs howl eerily. The animals seem unusually confused. Investigator George Reynolds suggests that he has a possible answer. For several years now he has been monitoring the Earth's magnetic field using a flux gate compass with the output put through operational amplifiers into chart recorders and digital voltmeters. He has noticed that when he gets a large fluctuation in the readings, within two or three days an earthquake occurs. For example, on September 24, 1998, between 1:00 and 3:00 PM, the voltmeter reading dropped from 7 Volts to 1 Volt. The chart recorder was going off the scale in both directions, jumping from side to side. The next day the readings of 1.0 to 2.5 volts with the needle on the chart recorder still very active. At 1:00 PM George called a researcher in solar activities at the University of Delaware to inquire about solar flare activity. He was out, so he left a message with his answering service. George told him about the erratic instrument readings and predicted an earthquake was about to occur. At 4:20 that afternoon, an earthquake measuring 5.2 on the Richter scale occurred near Erie, PA. It was powerful enough to be felt as far away as Michigan and Canada. George's readings ran from . 5 volts to 2.75 volts with much activity on his chart recorder and voltmeters. George feels these mysterious disappearances of homing pigeons may be tied to the Earth's magnetic field fluctuations. If the pigeons do have an internal "compass" did they get wrong navigation information and become lost? Just where and why have all the pigeons gone? Thanks to George Reynolds. Editors Note: In searching for the answer to UFOs George has found a clue to uncovering the mystery of predicting Earthquakes. ABDUCTIONS Tim Matthews British UFO Studies Center wrote that there is a big debate raging in the UK about the use of hypnosis and 'recovered' memories of close encounters. I told him I recommend using hypnosis has a last resort. Mind enhancing and recall methods often work allowing the experiencer to recall memories on their own. Briefly anyone who suspects they have been abducted will have at least a partial memory. Upon awakening I suggest they attempt to relive the abduction experience. While still in partial sleep, visualize the scene looking to the left, right, up and down. Attempts should be made to feel the temperature, smells, moisture and other feelings encountered. These memories are of much greater value than those obtained during hypnosis. Ellen Hecht a Clinical Hypnotherapist responds. There is every indication that an advanced form of hypnosis is used either to block the abductees' memories or, in some cases, exchange planted or screen memories for the actual experiences. Those responsible for these kidnappings have gone to great lengths and with advanced skills have blocked the victim's memories. I believe that only with the application of hypnosis, applied by a trained and experienced hypnotherapist, can these deeply buried memories surface. And to address the integrity and motives of the hypnotherapists, most will go out of their way to try to talk the client out of pursuing the retrieval of abduction-related memories. The individual is told it is the proverbial "can of worms" and they need to look long and hard at their emotional and physical ability to deal with what they may uncover. They are asked whether knowing the truth is more important to them than their peace of mind -- even at the risk of their sanity and their professional and personal relationships. Only if the client is insistent that they must know, not withstanding everything, does the session go forward. I don't know why you would state your opinion of the worthlessness of hypnosis so categorically. Time and again hypnosis has been used to sharpen the recall of individuals who have witnessed crimes, to remember license plates of getaway cars or to see the face of a rapist when the victim has blocked it from their mind as a result of shock. People use hypnosis to recall more easily when studying for tests. I have personally seen individuals who, under hypnosis, remember the names of classmates and teachers in kindergarten, when under normal circumstances they could not. Add to that the likely scenario, that the memories of abductees have been blocked by the abductors with an advanced form of hypnosis, and you have the perfect tool to research missing time episodes. More research needs to be done in this field. Under no circumstances should the use of hypnosis be censured. Thanks to Ellen Hecht, CHt (Clinical Hypnotherapist). Editors Response: I consider hypnosis has an important tool to recover memories. My point was that all other methods should first be used prior to hypnosis. Anyone under the control of a hypnotherpist is under extreme pressure to perform and may unintentionally confabulate stories to please. Not all hypnotherpists are skilled and the data obtained may be of questionable value without careful safeguards. METEOR STORM COMING On November 17, 1998, the Earth will pass through the dust laden tail of the comet Temple-Tuttle. Comets are actually dirty snowballs hurtling through space. Satellites in orbit above the Earth have some concern about anticipated Leonids meteoroid storm. Dust and ice particles with a velocity of 155,000 miles per hour could threaten some of our sensitive equipment. Captain Bruce Bookout of the 21st Space Wing at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado predicts Leonids' the bolide meteors will brighten the nighttime sky and could cause damage to missile warning and space surveillance assets. Temple-Tuttle -a fairly "young" comet has been hurtling through space for a couple hundred thousand years. The comet has a 33-year-long elliptical orbit around the sun, that takes it almost to Uranus. The Earth's annual orbital path will take us right through the comet's path providing us with a fireworks display in the sky. We have the potential for a spectacular sandstorm in space for satellites. Thirty-two years ago, the Leonids produced an estimated 150,000 meteoroids per hour. This year's storm is expected to have less strength, but there are now 500 satellites now in orbit versus a 100 then. A collision causes a "plasma electrostatic discharge that creates a voltage spike on the surface that could result in a fried satellite." Thanks to the Air Force News Service 10/21/98. NEW HAMPSHIRE MUFON CONFERENCE: Pete Geremia, NH MUFON Director wants to spread the word that the second 1998 NH MUFON Conference is being held on November 8 and will feature Erich Von Daniken and Michael Cremo as speakers. For further information contact Pete at 603/436-9283. Thanks to Ray Fowler. 35th NATIONAL UFO CONFERENCE: The Thirty Fifth Annual National UFO Conference will be held at the Days Inn in Bordentown, NJ on November 7 and 8. Jim Moseley the editor of Saucer Smear is the master of Ceremonies. Speakers include Bob Durant- Roswell Yes, Antonio Huneeus on UFOs in Chile, Karl Pflock on the Florida Scout Master Case, Pat Marcattilio on the Physical evidence, Peter Jordan- Cattle Mutilations, Tom Benson- One good case is enough and George Hansen-Remote Viewing, Anna Hayes Voyagers, Richard Sauder- Underground bases, Rick Hilberg- the first three decades, David Huggins- abductions, Curt Sutherly author of Strange Encounters. The Days Inn is located on Route 206 just off exit 7 of the NJ Turnpike. Many are some of the best researchers in Ufology. FREE REAL ESTATE RELOCATION SERVICES: HELP UFO RESEARCH As a special aid to our readers, we can help you obtain the best real estate experts in your area at no cost to you. We provide free relocation information and consulting services from the largest and most respected firms. If your planning to sell or buy a home and would like a top flight real estate agent give me a call at 609 654-0020 or e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com. Filer's Files Copyright 1998 by MUFON EASTERN DIRECTOR all rights reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item appeared. Send your letters to George A. Filer at Majorstar@aol.com. If you wish to keep your name confidential please so state in your E-mails. For more detailed investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON UFO JOURNAL by writing 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or call 1-800 UFO-2166. E- mail Mufon@aol.com. Next Issue Previous Issue Filer's Files Other
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 Filer's Files #44-1998 From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 08:20:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 08:20:26 -0500 Subject: Filer's Files #44-1998 Source: http://www.ufoinfo.com/filer/1998/ff_4498.html Filer's Files #44-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer: MUFON Eastern Director, November 5, 1998 Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 Filer's Files: sponsored by Global Force Ltd Truth comes in three phases. First it is ridiculed, then it is violently opposed, and then it is self-evident. Thanks to a friend of Robert Collins NEW ROSWELL CRASH DATA: Dr. Edgar Mitchell is quoted as saying, "Make no mistake, Roswell happened! I've seen secret files which show the government knew about it -- but decided not to tell the public." Edgar Mitchell the sixth astronaut to walk on the moon is making new statements concerning our Earth being visited extraterrestrial beings. He claims that he has interviewed people who have been in the military and are willing to testify to their UFO experiences, if congress grants immunity. He is saying that from his interviews with these people and the checking of their stories as far as was possible, that he is personally convinced that there have been crashed saucers and alien bodies retrieved. (I am one of those who talked to Edgar during briefings of Congressional personnel in Washington, DC.) He is further convinced that although the initial presidents were aware of the situation, subsequent elected officials were not. His major concern is that black budget money funds the research of people in control of alien technology with no accountability to either the elected government or its citizens. The Roswell Photo Interpretation Team (RPIT) has been updating some of its findings regarding the message held in General Roger Ramey�s hand in July of 1947. On the top left hand corner of the letter is a small logo. From what we can make out from the logo a small parachute can be seen in the top left of the logo, next to this is what we think to be a plane and under the plane, you can see five dots, in a cross like formation (maybe stars). Editors Note: I spent several hours going over the message myself. The logo could be from an airlift wing involved in moving the bodies. The 1st Air Transport Unit was at Roswell. The word Magdalena also seems readable. This information infers that a second crash occurred near Magdelena some 200 miles from Roswell. The message also appears to indicate four victims were being brought to Fort Worth, Texas. This seems like an unusual decision if this was a normal aircraft crash. We need other neutral experts to confirm what the RPIT team is deciphering. We are moving towards irrefutable evidence that some type of aircraft or multiple aircraft crashed in New Mexico in 1947. The message does seem to rule out the Air Forces explanation of the crash as being a Mogul balloon. However before we all jump to conclusions, the message does not thus far prove the crash of an alien craft. The witnesses we have talked with describe a large crash site with the wreckage of what appears to be a B-29 without engines. The case is becoming more complicated. The greatly enlarged message can be viewed at http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk/rpit/letter.html. NEW JERSEY WANAQUE RESERVOIR: Vinny reports, he has been photographing new images of stranger then usual orbs. Here is a single orb that I have been tossing and turning over. The original photo is an orb that looks like a Christmas ball. Red on the top and bottom, but the more you peer deeper into it, the ball appears allot different. The more you look, it seems to have some structure or shape inside. Thanks to Vinny. UFO Contat. GEORGIA Investigator John Thompson has been investigating some daylight UFO sightings that could be explained as satellites. He contacted several astronomers who assured him that satellites could not be seen in the daylight. Although a new type of Iridium satellites can be seen under certain conditions, when the sun reflects off their shiny surface none would have been visible for the this sighting outlined below. On September 25, 1998, a 38 year-old University of Alabama graduate called to say he had seen a UFO in Lee County, Alabama between 1:30 to 1:40 PM EDT. The high flying UFO flew directly over him three miles west of Auburn. The UFO was "shiny white" and of oval or cylinder shaped. Speed--very, very fast! Its altitude was over 14 miles high--possibly 30-70 miles high. Witness said the silvery UFO went from directly overhead, 12 o'clock position, to 2 o'clock position in a couple seconds." Incredibly, the UFO had an apparent size of an 1/8 of an inch. This suggests a real size of approximately 400 feet long at 14 miles and more likely--as the UFO, according to the witness, was flying where the atmosphere turns its darkest at extreme elevation--as much as 2000 feet long, at 70 miles high. No sound or electrical interference (he had his radio on) was noted. There were a few "wispy" clouds, and unlimited visibility at 87 degrees F. A call was placed to the FAA in Columbus, and Auburn Airport but nothing unusual was reported. According to Mr. Burdette, their "central radar" would have picked up any transponder equipped object to "60,000 feet." Since this UFO was above 60,000 feet it would not have registered whether transponder equipped or not! He saw a solid craft of enormous size moving at extraordinary speed moving from east to west. The La Grange, Georgia witness is well-educated and has an excellent reputation. It's obvious with the Iridium satellites we are going to have to be more vigilant with reports of unknowns that move faster than planes and are acutely high. The fact is that the new Iridium highly polished satellites do cause flares for short periods of time. ROBERT.D.MATSON@cpmx.saic.com has developed an Iridium flare predicting site that may helpful. Robert indicates no Iridium satellite would have been visible. LA GRANGE: We have a daylight September 27, 1998, sighting of a dull black triangle UFO, the size of a small plane size at 12:45 PM. The craft was flying at an estimated 1500 to 2000 feet high going northeast. No sound was heard and witness said it looked like a stealth fighter more than anything. Checked with La Grange Airport and they showed no gliders flying nor dark triangle aircraft operating. The possibility of a stealth fighter or drone flying that low over La Grange and making no sound is remote. Misidentification by witness is possible. Thanks to John Thompson. STONE MOUNTAIN FREEWAY: MUFON Director Walter Sheets reports a female witness was driving east on Hwy 78 at about 12 noon on August 21, 1998. As she approached Bethney Church Road, she saw an unusual object almost overhead. She leaned forward to get a closer look and saw a dull silver gray craft shaped like a pharmaceutical capsule. The UFO was traveling south somewhat faster than a passenger jet. The craft was the same length as a dime held at arm�s length. She estimated that it was several thousand feet in altitude. She had a good look for about six seconds, and saw a clear outline with no protuberances, wings, markings or other structures on the craft. This witness completed a sketch of the object, and a diagram of the sighting area. She is a retired school teacher with a Master's degree in Education from a large university, and taught the general sciences. COLUMBUS Jim Steen a MUFON investigator developed information on an October 24, 1998, citing. A businessman and his wife were driving NW toward Columbus on Route 520 when suddenly a bright thin spear like light was seen to transit from horizon to horizon at 10:00 PM. The appeared similar to a seven foot fluorescent light tube shooting through the sky at incredible speed. Thanks to Walter Sheets. NEW YORK LONG BEACH, LONG ISLAND: On October 30, 1998, John P. Cox and two other witnesses noticed a UFO as the sun was just about to set around 5:00 PM. The sky was crystal clear with the wind out of the northwest, so planes were coming in from the southeast over the ocean. At least six planes "passed" this object while preparing to land at either Kennedy or LaGuardia Airports. The object was moving from north to south over Long Beach. The UFO continued south out over the ocean until it became too small to see. It appeared red in color and was shaped like a long rectangular box. Then it started to "bend down" on both ends. At that point it looked like a hang-glider or ultra-lite. However, it kept on bending until it came together. So, now it appeared to be a tall box shape. Later it returned back into the rectangular shape, but not by bending back out. This time the "wings" appeared to extend out from the body. The wings appeared to sweep forward until, again it became a compact tall box shape. By now it was moving out over the ocean traveling at a steady speed and altitude the whole time. The UFO was relatively close to the ground (a few hundred to a thousand feet, maybe). Some other people must have seen the craft. Larry Clark reports that Sal Giammusso of Long Island MUFON is investigating. Thanks to Larry at http://www.nymufon.org/reportform.htm OHIO KETTERING: Ken Young reports two witnesses, a mother and son saw a UFO from their home on October 26, 1998. They live only a ten minute drive from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Stephen had walked outside when he witnessed an unidentified flying object at 7:30 PM. He then called the police, who advised him to report the sighting to the base. The telephone operator at Wright-Pat advised him that the Air Force does not conduct UFO investigations. The UFO was first thought to be star until the object reportedly became brighter, gaining in intensity to appear as a very bright light in the sky. No blinking was reported. The object then made a sudden departure to the south at a rapid rate of speed. "The object just took off, extremely fast," the witness said. Thanks to Kenny Young, UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/task/ COLORADO SAN LUIS VALLEY: After two years of relative quiet, Chris O�Brien reports that unusual activity has increased in recent weeks. On October 8, 1998, 4 miles west of Blanca, while headed east on Highway 160), a witness observed an amber colored "hemispherical-shaped" light hovering over the Blanca Massif. She estimated the lights size as around Venus-sized. After a few seconds, the object appeared to jump approximately 20 degrees upward. She pulled off the road and parked with her engine running to carefully observe the light at 10:30 PM. The witness is confused and could not completely remember how long she watched, but she guessed "several minutes." The next thing she clearly recalled was the craft flying at a high rate of speed above her car; headed NE to SW. She described a "triangle-shaped array of white and amber lights" blinking in sequentially in "patterns" on the underneath side. CRESTONE On October 14, 1998, at the Los Cumbres Golf Course a golfer on the fourth hole fairway, observed a "silver-colored disc hovering over Mt Adams at 11:30 AM.. The 13,000 ft. mountain is eight miles north of his location. The object seemed to wobble, but did not appear to be headed anywhere. Golfer made his second shot and could still see the craft. He headed toward the green watching it. After making his third shot the object had disappeared. He estimated the object was visible for at least five minutes. MINERAL HOT SPRINGS Just before sunset, Sat October 24, 1998, in Saguache County a motorist observed "two large glowing white objects" that fell at a high rate of speed toward the ground. The witness at first thought the objects were meteors, but realized the sun was still up and it was still light out, and the objects did not resemble normal meteors. HOOPER Fabian Sauvo reports an anomalous unblinking bright red light that at times appeared to hover, but seemed to be traveling slowly SW-to-NE on October 27, 1998. Fabian called Chris at 9:30 PM and stated, "I can see the he object from my roof." Chris went to the window and observed the light for several seconds before it disappeared into a cloud bank. The light seemed to be about 4,500 feet above the ground and over the Sand Piles on Highway 17; between Hooper and Moffat, CO. It is rare to get a call and be able to simultaneously see an UFO, while on the phone with another witness! RIO GRANDE/SAGUACHE On September 14, 1998, a "V-shaped craft hovering over the tops of the mountains was observed west of Highway 285-north of Monte Vista. The sun was above the horizon and seemed to reflect off the object at 6:15 AM. The object's structure was plainly visible despite the reflection. The witness described the object as looking like "two big rectangular pillars put together in a V-shape. It was the size of three commercial airliners. The witness observed the craft for over ten minutes before driving out of site while it was still hovering over the mountains. Thanks to Chris O�Brien. Chris has a regular radio program in Colorado. MONTANA RONAN: Since October 16, 1998, UFOs have been reported by several hundred witnesses and two local papers over the Mission Valley in western Montana. The sightings have continued at various intervals and various duration's since, up to this report filing of 10-31-1998. They have occurred somewhere between the hours of 2 AM and 5 AM on non pattern evenings. The UFO is roughly located above the immense Mission Mountain Range hovering in place at approximately 20,000 feet above sea level and 9,000 feet above the top of the Mission Range. It is reported, as of this writing, by more than 500 witnesses including professional, police personnel who have gone on record, night shift workers, travelers, and locals as well as others in witnessing these unknown- origin craft. The UFO is reported to be quite large with one continuous red light, a flickering (not blinking) green light and a flickering blue glow that appears under the craft. Outline and shape have been undetermined at this time for the UFO. The primary locale for observation of the craft has been in and around areas of Polson Montana, a town of 6,000 that is located ten miles north of the town of Ronan. At Ronan a large manufacturing facility is located two miles south of the town off highway 93. At this manufacturing facility many of the night shift have been observing the UFOs in the same location and time for the last week or more. Scott Johnson, night shift foreman for the manufacturing company, has brought his entire night shift outside on the east side of the facility to observe the craft during breaks on various evenings. Mr. Johnson has stated when interviewed, "this is not a vehicle of known origin. Its behavior, its ability to hover as it does, its soundless in that it is strictly visual, all make for something that is not �natural� by our standards of known air vehicles." On the latest night of observation, 10-30-1998, there were two of the UFOs roughly at the same altitude but approximately 9 miles apart. No one has seen the vehicles appear or have noted when they leave. They are just there when they are noticed and after several hours they are gone. Conditions in the area have been cloudless, clear, and cold temperatures. There has been no other air craft in the area at the time of the UFOs presence over the entire 700 square mile area of the Mission Valley where the observations have been reported from. Reported by: Robert A.M. Stephens STILLWATER MILLS Contractor, NASA Shuttle Documentation Program St. Ignatius, Montana sti3818@montana.com. Thanks to Nancy L. Houser-Young, Newcastle. GOVERNMENT DISCS In response to recent comments about the real flying discs -- those designed, built and flown by the US Navy and USAF from 1946, UK aviation, astronomy and photographic expert Bill Rose had this to say: "Judging by the e-mail you sent me, there seems to be a fair bit of confusion about supersonic flight prior to Chuck Yeager. I've personally never suggested that discs with supersonic performance were operational prior to 1947 -- but who knows? The Germans flew the first winged vehicle beyond Mach One in 1945, which was an unmanned A-4b rocket. They were going to fly these second generation V-2s with pilots had the war lasted longer. As I recall, the design wasn't right and the wings came off the second prototype!! Arnold said, the craft he sighted were boomerang shaped, which strongly suggests a top secret development of Horten or Lippisch work -- maybe by Jack Northrop. The F-6 Douglas 'Skyray' (followed the XF5-U1 Flying Pancake) was heavily Lippisch and featured transonic performance with reheat. As a low aspect ratio design, it looked very saucerish with its manta-ray shape and reflects 1940s thinking. The key element to pre-Yeager supersonics is undoubtedly afterburner design (rather than rocket power) and the British and Germans knew all about this long before the Americans. After all, they built their postwar aerospace industry on a lot of UK and Nazi technology. I doubt if Arnold was that accurate on his estimates of performance, but I think it is quite possible that a few US high performance prototypes were flown in secret which fell between the Horten lX and the Skyray. Because of Yeager's flight, they will never be revealed. But who knows?" I might add that I spoke to a man who wishes to remain anonymous who conducted the first tests on the Horten lX in 1947 and who strongly suggested that these and similar advanced aircraft were up and flying at the time. What is more, the Americans were testing all sorts of stuff back then and were starting to use their German assets. Thanks to Bill Rose. MIND CONTROL In 1996, the US Air Force Scientific Advisory Board published a 14-volume study of future developments in weapons called New World Vistas. Tucked away on page 89 of an ancillary 15th volume are some hair-raising insights into the future 'coupling' of man and machine in a section dealing with 'Biological Process Control.' The author refers to an 'explosion' of knowledge in the field of neuroscience, adding: "One can envision the development of electromagnetic energy sources, the output of which can be pulsed, shaped, and focused, that can couple with the human body in a fashion that will allow one to prevent voluntary muscular movements, control emotions (and thus actions), produce sleep, transmit suggestions, interfere with both short-term and long- term memory, produce an experience set, and delete an experience set. "1 Translating the words 'experience set' from military jargon into plain English, this means, simply, that they envisage the ability to erase your life's memories and substitute a new, fictitious set. Thanks to Robert Collins. 35th NATIONAL UFO CONFERENCE: The Thirty Fifth Annual National UFO Conference will be held at the Days Inn in Bordentown, NJ on November 7 and 8. Jim Moseley the editor of Saucer Smear is the master of Ceremonies. Speakers include Bob Durant- Roswell Yes, Antonio Huneeus on UFOs in Chile, Karl Pflock on the Florida Scout Master Case, Pat Marcattilio on the Physical evidence, Peter Jordan- Cattle Mutilations, Tom Benson- One good case is enough and George Hansen-Remote Viewing, Anna Hayes Voyagers, Richard Sauder- Underground bases, Rick Hilberg- the first three decades, David Huggins-abductions, Curt Sutherly author of Strange Encounters. The Days Inn is located on Route 206 just off exit 7 of the NJ Turnpike. Many are some of the best researchers in Ufology. NEW HAMPSHIRE MUFON CONFERENCE: Pete Gremio, NH MUFON Director wants to spread the word that the second 1998 NH MUFON Conference is being held on November 8 and will feature Erich Von Daniken and Michael Cremo as speakers. For further information contact Pete at 603/436-9283. Thanks to Ray Fowler. FREE REAL ESTATE RELOCATION SERVICES: HELP UFO RESEARCH As a special aid to our readers, we can help you obtain the best real estate experts in your area at no cost to you. We provide free relocation information and consulting services from the largest and most respected firms. If your planning to sell or buy a home and would like a top flight real estate agent give me a call at 609 654-0020 or e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com. Filer's Files Copyright 1998 by MUFON EASTERN DIRECTOR all rights reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on their Websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item appeared. Send your letters to George A. Filer at Majorstar@aol.com. If you wish to keep your name confidential please so state in your E-mails. For more detailed investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON UFO JOURNAL by writing 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or call 1-800 UFO-2166. E- mail Mufon@aol.com.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 This Is Message #14,000 Posted To The From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:19:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:19:06 -0500 Subject: This Is Message #14,000 Posted To The Another milestone at the UpDates Archive - this is the 14,000th message. The first one's header: >From: Scott K. Hale <shale@megalinx.net> >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 17:39:13 -0500 >Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:20:15 -0500 >Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 The message itself is an interesting reflection of recent discussion in the 'Obergian' thread - the more the 'Subject:' changes, the more the content stays the same, it seems. UFO UpDates has come a long way since its days as a small, sixty-subscriber, Atari-based BBS here in Toronto. I've lost count of the number of countries represented in the address file - there's no stat-generation in Eudora. The average number of 'reads', daily, both direct and via the archive must now be in the many hundreds. To all posters since the List's inception, my thanks for an intense educational experience. That education is now being put to good use on Sunday nights at 11:00 pm on 'Strange Days...Indeed'. The show is carried by CFRB 1010 AM - a 50,000 watts, 'clear-channel' [no other station on that frequency in North America], that can be tuned, at night, way down into the Southern United States. It's also available on shortwave at 6070khz and via RealAudio on the web - live feed only - at: www.cfrb.com/cfrb.ram Unfortunately - or fortunately, depending on which side of the mic. you sit - 'SDI' isn't yet being archived as Real Audio. For most of you most of the content of the early shows will not be anything new - UFOs-101. My partner, Scott Robbins and I anchor and tonight's show features listeners with "My UFO Experience", Chris Rutkowski discussing his annual 'Canadian UFO Survey' together Don Ledger and his new book, 'Maritime UFO Files'. Thanks again to all of you for making UFO UpDates 'Must-Read' for both Pro and Newcomer alike. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:34:43 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:30:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 14:37:19 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >>Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 02:32:59 -0800 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:10:34 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Cancelled Press Conference/Paul Dore >Previously, Brian Cuthbertson wrote: >>>As was noted by some perceptive soul in a previous post, ufology >>>has had to deal with such sideshows for years. I guess it was >>>just a matter of time until the SETI people were invited in too. >>>Welcome to the party, folks. >>>Onward thru the fog, >>>-Brian Cuthbertson >Larry Hatch responded: >>I have two questions only: >>1) Who pulled this 'seti' stunt? >>2) What were their motives? >Unfortunately, there isn't always a motive for things like this, >assuming this is a hoax. >Just take a drive through any city and look at the graffiti on >the walls of overpasses or the broken windows of run-down >housing. Even in "proper" neighborhoods, vandalism is a >continuous problem. Homes and automobiles are broken into and >trashed for no more reason than the apparent hell of it. Dear Roger: Your point is well taken - no argument, but even a captured "tagger" will admit he wanted to impress his "colleagues", most especially the big bully that used to be so important. >So is it really so unlikely that someone might create a hoax >with no real agenda other than to see if they could do it? No. Not unlikely at all, and I never suggested any organized agenda. I jut want to find out which person it was, and take things from there. If it is pimple-faced, Roger, that is the end of the trail. I did not mean to imply anything more than that. I have found a wonderful "general conspiracy" website for those who need it. You can fill in the blanks and pretty much "tailor" the great conspirac(y/ies) to suit ones own needs. Prices are fairly reasonable, much less than conventional religions. -LH >In a broader sense, to many, "motive" implies the moving force >behind a larger plan. Outside of government covert intervention, >we really give hoaxers far to much credit by even considering >such cowardly and lazy actions "motivated" in any sense of the >word. Real research is hard work and results are never >guaranteed. Scientific hoaxes are an insult to the men and women >that dedicate themselves to such research. They are patient >enough to wait for results; not to "short-cut" the process >through fraud. >When such fraud occurs, it is nothing more than vandalism of the >scientific neighborhood; useless people defacing things of value >out of frustration over a meaningless existence. >They don't need a reason and their faces are never seen. Amen. Their faces are seen, just briefly sometimes. I maintain that there is a reason, but it is so dull and predictable that "no reason at all" is not far off the mark! >Next week, they probably won't even remember what they trashed. > >Later, >Roger Evans Its nice agreeing with somebody once in a while. -LH
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 "Fliegender Untertasse und EMF vs Atomic From: RHODDONE@aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:53:28 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:33:45 -0500 Subject: "Fliegender Untertasse und EMF vs Atomic [non-subscriber post--ebk] You have a number of doubters to the German development of flying disks; why? These projects were confiscated at the end of the war by Brittish and mostly American intellegence. I thought by now that was common knowledge, along with the VTOL program that became the Harrier aircraft, and Sanger projects that were incorporated into the flying wing program. That Germany lost the war has nothing to do with it's development of aircraft or the quality of what was produced! That Theosophical societies claim the"Vril" had anything to do with the NAZI development is immaterial to the actual prototypes that have surfaced over the years as "proof" in that development. Many of our black programs, whether influenced by E.Ts or Germans, are still marvelous in the declassified planes presented so far. It would be better time spent for "critics"to really regard some of the alternatives seriously that German scientists were "working" with. Disregard the FBI files declssified; their useless. I know you guys will do everything to discredit the following; so be it: However, Frank Critzer had the prototype of such propulsion as is required for flying disk technology. The elements were right there at Giant Rock; principally quartz in great quantity. The government, under the auspices of the FBI bothched it in recovering the plans and prototype. Look for yourself; why, to date do you think the Riverside County Sherrifs went out of their jurisdiction? Do you think it is a simple matter that "Victorville" was closer for them to deposit Critzer's remains? Apple Valley, and even Palm Springs, in their jurisdiction, were closer! Also, the whole account of Critzer's profile is all messed up "officially"! The allegegatoions of him being a German agent is one, when he had to be profiled by the FBI to work for the government, which he did with Van Tassel. So, too, his death certificate is incomplete, with the pretenses the Sherrif dept hunted him down; one being a draft evader. He was well over the limit of draft evasion, even for the year he died, although there is no actuall birthdate given on the death certificate, only an approx date and age......go check at San Bernardino County Records, I did! Other allegations are that he was a WWI sympathiser and that he was interned in 1916 or 1917. Where, here in the U.S. had he been, and wouldn't there have been more "official" papers to follow up for a complete death certificate? A foreign government spy with no leads? I don't think so! So go ahead, deride EMF development in lieu of Atomic propulsion; but do the background checks more thoroughly before you defamate someone; unless your purpose is solely to disinform!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 Re: Bielek Banned From The Uk? From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 23:15:04 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:46:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Bielek Banned From The Uk? >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Bielek Banned From The Uk? >Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:45:28 -0000 >I received today Kevin McClure's latest edition of 'Abduction >Watch' in the post. >Although I have had, and no doubt continue to have, some serious >problems with Kevin's opinions I support his newsletter via >subscription and have advertised it as widely as possible. >The old editions of AW are available to view on the Magonia >website...... > >Ufology is an important subject for all of us. There are >differing opinions and that's fine. In fact debate is a good >way of getting to the bottom of things. Occasionally people put >out material so offensive and dangerous, and almost certainly >likely to bring the subject into further disrepute, that we must >act. >Amongst the targets for Kevin's (and my) criticism have been >some of the charlatans who do a major disservice to Ufology and >the latest of these appears to be Al Bielek who has been invited >to speak at the LAPIS two-day Conference in Blackpool in a >couple of weeks. Not only does it emerge that the Conference >organizers - surprise, surprise - have little idea about Bielek >and his group of time travellers - but that they are allowing >him to sell various books some of which have very strong >anti-Semitic and holocaust revisionist overtones. I can confirm >that Peter Moons' book entitled 'Black Sun' IS riddled with >quite unbelievable and offensive quotations and perhaps the >worst is one reproduced by Kevin; [...] As a UFO researcher, there is one thing I cannot and will not tolerate. That is prejudice and bias... This whole thread has it's roots in hatred. It is done...let the past war crimes stay in the past. I realize that all of those who were responsible for the Hell On Earth brought on by Hitler and his Associates, have caused great loss and pain. I also know that not all Germans; Scientists or Soldiers were Nazi's... They followed orders to survive. Those who were Nazi's to the core, have or will eventually be punished for their crimes. Why continue to promote such ideas... Here in America, we are having enough trouble just getting along with our neighbors, regardless of their race, religion, or Political Affiliation. I will not comment on this again. I am sick, just thinking about it. I realize that America was spared the destruction which the British Isles suffered and I also realize that there is still a lot of hate and suspicion there... Let it go! Let it die. This is a new time... a new Millenium...a New hope for world unity and an end to ratial, religious and political wars around the world... It takes time...but a wound cannot heal if you continue to pull the scab off of it. German Scientists were not all German...they were composed of Scientists from all over Europe and Russia who were interested in one thing: SCIENCE. Just because the War Machines made these scientists use their talents for destruction, does not mean that was what they desired to do.... I have no problem with People of every Race, Religion and Creed. They are People. They are not perfect, but they are not Demons either...They are just people. We may not like some of their actions, but we should alwasy love the person. Hopefully someday they will see the error of their actions and reform... If we keep driving them into the ground with a sledge hammer, they will never have a potential to bring unity and Utopia to the rest of the world... As far as Al Beilek gose. I know the gentleman... I have spent many hours in phone conversations over the years and have stood face to face with him also. I can't say that his story is True, but I will not call him a "Liar!" It is not my place to do so. Time will reveal the truth of what we are seeking. Maybe not in my life time, but in someone's life time. As humanity advances technologically, they will traverse first the Solar system and then the Stars... Then, the truth will be known...for they will chart the very star systems closest to us, from which many in UFOlogy claims E.T.s are visiting this planet. So, what do you say, Let us stop the hating and finger pointing.... This is my only post here. Say what you will among yourselves... But, I will not take part in these discussions until I see a change of Attitude... ......Sorry Errol, I had to say this...Please forgive Me for my abruptness... REgards, Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent this way will go directly to my screen. If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 UFO Researcher Forced Off Road From: Karen Guetzow <kareng@xanadu2.net> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:43:52 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:54:36 -0500 Subject: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road Dear Updates Readers, Occasionally I post UFO news stories at exoScienceUFO at: http://exosci.com/ufo/ I want to share a recent story of mine. I am unhappy about what happened to Michael Unum. He should have been allowed to bicycle down the highway without being attacked. This is supposed to be a free country. Was his attacker just some kind of tough guy getting his warped jollies or was he worried about the data Unum was going to collect? What do you think? UFO Researcher Forced Off Road A UFO researcher intent on gathering data along U.S. Highway 666 encountered a change of plans when he was forced off the highway by someone entirely terrestrial. Michael Unum, author and researcher had planned an ambitious 340 mile bicycle trip from Monticello, Utah, which was to begin Oct. 4th and end Oct. 8th or 9th. His destination was Gallup, New Mexico. According to Unum, "I got the idea to take on the beast when I was reading material that stated that this strip of road had more UFO sightings than any other in the country." The former Expert Infantryman was in the process of collecting information from his surroundings via a magnetic field sensor, Geiger counter, camera, and tape recorder. On Oct. 6th Unum was leaving Cortez, Colorado, when he was followed by a Federal police car for a short time. Four hours later when he was 11 miles north of Shiprock, New Mexico near the Ute Mountain Indian Reservation, he was forced off the road by a blue Air Force-type mechanics truck. The civilian driver "pulled right in front of me and stopped suddenly forcing me into the ditch. He then got out of the truck and inspected his tires and adjusted his mirror. He never once looked at me." Fatigue and shock prevented Unum from responding to the attack. A bedroll packed on top of the small trailor Unum was pulling behind him broke his fall. Luckily he sustained only minor scratches from the incident. However, the bike's front fork and rim were seriously damaged. Forty-five minutes after the crash, a traveller from California stopped to give aid but Unum declined the man's offer. Unum later encountered the same individual in a fast food restaurant in Shiprock, New Mexico. He accepted a ride in the man's small station wagon and travelled 90 miles to Gallup, New Mexico. The many mysteries of the Ute Mountain area and Highway 666 remain unsolved. However, Unum has literally and figuratively brushed off the dust from his experience and al- ready plans a future trip down Devil's Highway. Armchair researchers and enthusiasts can reach Unum at his site http://www.ufotechnology.com/ To view pictures of Unum and his bike go to http://www.hpnc.com/~arp1/mike@Nav.jpg and http://www.hpnc.com/~arp1/mikebike.jpg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 Re: Project Silverbug From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 18:47:50 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:03:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Project Silverbug >Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 19:24:25 -0500 >From: Kenny Young - T.A.S.K. <task@fuse.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Project Silverbug >PROJECT SILVERBUG >This message is to inform of a recent article regarding the >controversial 'Project Silverbug'. This interesting and >information-packed article was produced by George Belanus, a >researcher from Bridgeport, Ohio. Belanus has been a part-time >writer and reporter for several newspapers including The >Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. >The report is located at: >http://home.fuse.net/task/Silverbug.htm >Contact information for Belanus is also listed at this location. I have talked with Frank Batts and a lengthy interview with him and friend was conducted by Jeff Rense well over a year ago when this experience first hit the Internet. There is absolutely nothing in Frank's story to indicate any connection to Silverbug or anything else. He saw what he did, experienced what he did. What that was is unclear. --
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:50:49 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:22:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:58:41 -0000 >Hi Roger, >I agree with you. In its' most basic form the story is that >somebody associated with our disc research actually met an old >German guy who had been in a position to come into contact with >Richard Miethe on a number of occasions and who provided some >intriguing background to the goings-on at the two BMW factories >near Prague where some of the German disc work took place. >There are other documents talking about operational jet-powered >disc only recently released and perhaps things like 'Sign', >'Grudge' and 'Blue Book' we in reality only low-level efforts >related to the Cold War situation. The evidence is now >suggesting that the Soviets had discplanes attempting to >penetrate the Northern DEW lines from 1949 and under these >circumstances any US response along similar lines would not be >surprising. Note the very serious attention paid the question of >advanced Soviet aircraft in many of the declassified >documents..... >There are many secrets - some to do with the Cold War. I suggest >that flying discs are the big Cold War secret still to fully >emerge from the black world........I further suggest a certain >element of psychological warfare in terms of the handling of the >UFO subject by the authorities.... >The definite impression given was that this chap had held back >to some extent because of this loyalty and allegiance stuff >which is taken quite seriously by the older generation in >Germany although not particularly by the new generation of >Germans - with some unfortunate exceptions..... >The point is this; based upon a good deal of credible evidence >we can now say with a certain assurance that flying discs were >and are an example of earthly technology. I'll send you some >stuff privately on this. >I think 'flying triangle' reports are the same thing except >they're being seen now. >If there is any evidence for alien-human contact then at best it >is tenuous, anecdotal and entirely unproven. There is also a >fundamental problem where people confuse the extra-terrestrial >hypothesis with their belief in actual alien contact happening >here and now. I'm quite happy with things like the Drake >equation and the writings of Fort and Jung but they are on an >entirely different level to the madness that too often passes >for UFO research. >So if there is evidence of alien contact then where are we to >look? Surely not the 'Space God' theory? Disc sightings? No! >Triangle sightings? No! Balls of light? Possibly but then we >know that many of these could be natural phenomena/earth lights. >OK - well maybe it's close encounters. But they too often emerge >after the most questionable use of hypnosis - a method banned by >nearly every UFO research group in the UK, including my own. >So it's very problematic and nobody ever seems to get into this >disc debate - perhaps because they are afraid I'm right. Who >knows? >Hope to hear from you soon..... >Tim Okay, here it is: there ain't no _Nazi_ tech that _ain't_ been done (sorry for speaking in the Cowboy). Pulse jets to power UFOs don't work, pulse jets are 'Glorifed oil furnace technology'. The Pulsejet was used on V-1 Buzzbombs and nothing else that was operational by the Nazis. Note: I am of German descent, (along with Irish, and Portuguese...). The Thechnology just didn't exsist to make a saucer that was capable of hovering and silent flight. If Himmler had a UFO at his disposal, given the jealousy of the various weasels that wanted to sit on the right hand of 'Der Fuhuer', wouldn't Goring have wanted it for his own, just to keep his considerable butt from getting cleaned by the 8th and the RAF? GT McCoy "It may not be the easy way but, it's the Cowboy way"-Riders in the sky
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 Return to Shaitan Mazar From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 08:59:59 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:28:23 -0500 Subject: Return to Shaitan Mazar Source: http://ufos.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa100498.htm Check out the page for more associated links. ----- Return to Shaitan Mazar Dateline:10/04/98 Participants in the expedition to Shaitan Mazar. From left to right: Oleg Murashev, Nelli Slugina, Anton Bogatov, Nikolay Subbotin, Alexey Kostenko, Emil Bachurin. Photo by Maxim Slugin. Copyright by Nikolay Subbotin =A9 and Russian UFO Research Station =A9, 1998. Used with permission. A Report From Russia At Last! On August 17, in an article entitled Shaitan Mazar, I told you about ufologists Nikolay Subbotin and Emil Bachurin of the Russian UFO Research Station (RUFORS) and their expedition in search of a 600 meter long UFO (artist's conception) that supposedly had crashed into a gorge called Shaitan Mazar("Grave of the Devil")in the Tien Shan ("Celestial") Mountains of Kyrgyzstan near the border with China in August of 1991. I had wondered for six long weeks what Nikolay and Emil had found, and this week I got the answer in an e-mailed document that was in the familiar broken English of the computerized translator that Nikolay uses to translate his messages from Russian. Once again, please remember that it is very difficult to understand these translations perfectly, so I must sometimes guess the intended meaning. On 19 August, 1998, Nikolay and his group left Moscow and travelled first to Almatis in search of German Svechkov, who was a member of the June, 1992 expedition to investigate the crashed object. They found Svechkov's son, Vasily, but he refused to tell them where to find German Svechkov. Emil Bachurin was willing to look for Svechkov, but the sponsor of the expedition, Anton Bogatov, insisted that they not spend any more time looking for Svechkov. Bogatov was becoming concerned about how the Russian economic crisis might hurt his business, and wanted to get back home as quickly as possible. The expedition arrived in Karakol on the evening of 20 August and spent the night in a local hotel. Karakol is about 250 kilometers from the crash site, and the expedition hoped to rent a helicopter there to fly them to a suitable campsite near the gorge. The next morning, they went to the airport, where they were told that there were no helicopters available. This was very bad news because they only had enough money to rent a helicopter and for the return trip to Moscow. The airport manager, trying to be helpful, told them that there was a camp of mountain climbers in the Tien Shan Mountains only fifty kilometers from the crash site, and that these people would rent their helicopter to the expedition if the expedition could get to their campsite. However, since both the campsite and the crash site were in a restricted area near the Chinese border, it would be necessaary to get special permission from the border authority to go there. This was easier said than done. The border authority told them that they must first get permission from the militia. So, off to the militia office they went. The militia told them that they should first register with the local passport office of Kazahkstan. At the passport office they were told that they should talk to the local branch of the KGB. The KGB sent them back to the militia. After going in circles for a while, they stopped and considered their options: 1. They could rent a small plane - an AN-28 - and overfly the site. This choice had two unpleasant drawbacks: a) There was no landing strip in the area, so any photos would have to be made from the air, and it would be very difficult to make any good pictures from an airplane. b) The last aircraft that had approached the site too closely had experienced fatal mechanical problems caused by the intense magnetic field (or anti-magnetic field?) radiated by the object. 2. They could ignore the border authority, the militia, the passport office and the KGB, and just go, hoping their journalistic credentials would get them by. And so our brave comrades risked spending the rest of their vacation in Siberia and headed for Shaitan Mazar. As luck would have it, their vehicle broke down on the way and they had to stand in a cold rain for four hours. During this stop, however, they spoke to a shepherd who told them that they were only 20 kilometers from the crash site. Since ten of those kilometers were over mountains, the expedition decided to go on to the camp at which they had been told they could rent a helicopter. The shepherd also told them that there was a sacred spring at Shaitan Mazar at which many people had been healed of various illnesses. On 23 August the expedition reached the border outpost of Mai-Odir, and found that the border guards were very friendly and hospitable, allowing them to camp nearby. The next day, with only enough money to rent the helicopter for one day, they did so, and took off in search of the crash site. In about 20 minutes they had found the site by following the directions of Emil Bachurin, who had been to the crash site with an earlier expedition. The UFO, however, was gone. Photo copyright by Nikolay Subbotin =A9 and Russian UFO Research Station =A9, 1998. Used with permission. The helicopter set down at a safe distance from the odd magnetic field, if indeed the field was still there, and they walked to the site. The site was at 4800 feet, unreachable except by helicopter or by mountain climbers. No ground vehicle, four-wheel-drive or other, could have reached it. There was a hole approximately 20 meters in length, but the slide marks that Emil had spoken of seeing were gone. Photo copyright by Nikolay Subbotin =A9 and Russian UFO Research Station =A9, 1998. Used with permission. Nikolay describes the site thus(computerized translation): All stones were broken and smooth. The Earth seem very much freshen. It seemed that the slope was artificial. Probably, someone has cleaned traces of failure? Nikolay says that Emil Bachurin was shocked. He found some special labels left by the previous expedition, so he knew this was the place, but he could not understand the disappearance of the UFO. The only other thing of note to be seen in the area was an area that looked to be a rudely constructed helicopter landing pad. Their instruments could detect no magnetic anomalies in the area. Dejectedly, the expedition flew back to camp and left for home. Nikolay says that half of the expedition thought Emil Bachurin had lied to them about the previous expedition and about what he had seen. However, some corroboration of Emil's story appeared in the form of one Igor Vislobokov, who stated that, while in the military in 1991, he and two comrades saw a cigar-shaped object in the skies of the Tien-Shan area. Oddly, Nikolay says that when he got back to civilization, he found that the magnetic tape strip on all of his credit cards had been erased. However, the film and videotapes that he made were not harmed. What happened to the UFO? Nikolay believes that the military had come in and taken it out. He intends to continue his investigation, and hopefully, he will continue to report to us. On a final note, there is a story from one Nikolay Romanov that the Shaitan Mazar UFO was actually a module of the Russian block of the International Space Station that was lost four minutes after launch when the rocket carrying it into orbit malfunctioned and exploded. This module carried four nuclear power generators according to Romanov. Nikolay Subbotin argues that this cannot be true because work had not yet begun on the space station modules in 1991. --- In an infinite universe inifinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 Re: Strange Object In Schalksrust, South Africa - From: Tinus de Beer <mufon-sa@icon.co.za> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:23:14 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:32:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Strange Object In Schalksrust, South Africa - >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:11:00 +0200 >Subject: Strange Object In Schalksrust, South Africa >Source: alt.ufo.reports, September 15. >Stig >******* >Strange object >Author:J-P de Villiers =BF >Email: jpe@lantic.co.za >Date: 1998/09/15 >Forum: alt.ufo.reports Subsequent investigation of above mentioned case revealed the following information: At 3:30 am on 15 September, as the diesel ore train was slowly (8 - 10 km/h) pulling into the unmanned Schalksrust station, the assistant driver, Faan de Beer, observed a meteor coming down within 80 - 100 meters from the tracks in a ploughed maize field. Unfortunately the "meteor" stopped dead 1 meter above the ground, preventing it from becoming a meteorite... This ball of light, estimated to be 1 to 2 meters in diameter and shining brightly with a blue-gray light, started bobbing up and down for 3 to 4 times before stopping again and shooting back up into the air at the same fast speed it came down with. A few hundred meters up it stopped again and then came down again. It repeated this (coming down, stopping, bobbing, stopping, shooting back up) 4 times, in the same horizontal position. The fourth time it just kept on going upwards, disappearing through the clouds. It was overcast. The train made to much noise to determine any sound from the object. The driver, JP de Villiers, were talking on the radio to the control room in Lydenburg and experienced no interference on the radio. (He did not observe the light as he was writing down an authorization code, but confirmed that his collogue was very excited.) The locomotive functioned normally. Although it was overcast, there was no thunder cloud activity nor precipitation, as confirmed by the Weather Bureau. On 15 October an earthquake measuring 3.9 were recorded 50-70km north of the sighting area. Given the description of the light/object, two possible explanations comes to mind: ball lighting and earth lights. However, as far as I know, neither of these are linked to the speeds experienced in this incident, usually just drifting around (exciting people). Also, ball lighting are usually associated with thunder activity. Given the earthquake a month later, earth lights seems worthy of a closer look, but the speed troubles me. Can anyone shed light on whether it's known for some earth lights to move at these speeds? An be so repetitive in their movements? Btw, one can't help but wonder whether, if we had a crop on that field, we would have had a crop circle.... Regards Tinus de Beer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 06:45:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:39:09 -0500 Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In Since the issue seems to revolve around the passenger/photographer it would seem that the solution would be to automate the photographic process somehow. My guess is that this strict enforcement of the law (or at least this interpretation of it) won'tstop the determined crop circle photograph entrepenuers. This may be a rather large question to ask, but I'm curious as to the legal status of 'UltraLight' aircraft in Great Britian.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 BWW Media Alert 19981108 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:02:46 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:48:22 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 19981108 Bufo Calvin P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo calvin<;/a><BR> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/bufosweirdworld"> Link to Amazon.com</a><BR> ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it). November 8, 1998 On to the listings: Times are generally Pacific. A&E Saturday, November 14, 9:00 PM, WHERE ARE ALL THE UFOS? (narrated by Michael Dorn) Sunday, November 15, 1:00 AM, WHERE ARE ALL THE UFOS? (narrated by Michael Dorn) THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL Sunday, November 8,1:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT SQUID Sunday, November 8, 1:30 PM, STRANGE BUT TRUE: MYSTERIES IN THE SKY (sightings in England...may be UFOs, may be Rendlesham) Next Saturday, November 14, 1:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: CRACKING CODES: RIDDLES AND WRITINGS (Piri Reis map) Next Saturday, November 14, 1:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: CURSES AND OMENS Next Sunday, November 15, 1:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: LAKE MONSTER (Champ of Lake Champlain) Next Sunday, November 15, 1:30 PM, STRANGE BUT TRUE: haunted castle hotel Next Thursday, November 19, 9:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: CHINESE WILDMAN Next Thursday, November 19, 9:30 PM, STRANGE BUT TRUE: ANIMAL HEALINGS; GHOST STORIES Next Friday, November 20, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: CHINESE WILDMAN Next Friday, November 20, 1:30 AM, STRANGE BUT TRUE: ANIMAL HEALINGS; GHOST STORIES Next Friday, November 20, 10:00 PM, MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED: STRANGE BEINGS AND UFOS (includes the Yeti and Loch Ness Monster) MTV Monday, November 9, 4:30 PM, ROAD RULES: UFO stories (I don't know if this is really appropriate to the list or not...never seen the show) Monday, November 9, 8:00 PM, ROAD RULES: Haunted hotel Friday, November 13, 4:30 PM, ROAD RULES: Haunted hotel THE SCIENCE CHANNEL The new schedule is weird programming for an hour each at 6:00 AM, 2:00 PM, and 10:00 PM. Rotating shows include: INTO THE UNKNOWN, STRANGE BUT TRUE, and ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE. THE SCI-FI CHANNEL Sun, November 8 7:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4045: healing prayers; Chinese exorcism; Brazilian UFOs; bigfoot in Ohio Sun, November 8 11:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4045: healing prayers; Chinese exorcism; Brazilian UFOs; bigfoot in Ohio Mon, November 9 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #223: psychic detectives Mon, November 9 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #223: psychic detectives Tue, November 10 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4046: angels vs. ghosts; politics and the paranormal; radio signals from Mars Tue, November 10 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #224: haunted seminary and mental hospital Tue, November 10 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #224: haunted seminary and mental hospital Wed, November 11 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4047: haunted child; "self- replicating" UFO; psychic espionage; near-death experiences and the blind Wed, November 11 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #225: hoaxed UFOs; cattle mutilations; ET life Wed, November 11 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #225: hoaxed UFOs; cattle mutilations; ET life Thu, November 12 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4048: psychic detective; secret government UFO base (not Area 51); haunted hotel; faith healing; Atlantis Thu, November 12 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #101: UFOs Thu, November 12 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #101: UFOs Fri, November 13 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4049: ghost; UFO Fri, November 13 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #102: ghosts and poltergeists Fri, November 13 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #102: ghosts and poltergeists Sun, November 15 7:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4050: Zimbabwe sightings; psychic healing; English exorcism; OOBE (out of body experience) research; "peeking Casper" Sun, November 15 11:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4050: Zimbabwe sightings; psychic healing; English exorcism; OOBE (out of body experience) research; "peeking Casper" SYNDICATED Monday, November 9, LEEZA: psychic Dorothy Allison ___________________________ This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t he week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 Betty Hill Associated Pegasus SETI Signal? From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 15:51:28 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:46:59 -0500 Subject: Betty Hill Associated Pegasus SETI Signal? A listener calling talk show host Laura Lee's 'EQ Pegasi' special Saturday, November 7, drew attention to the visual match-up by abductee Betty Hill of her 'star map' with a map of the constellation Pegasus, at told in John G. Fuller's book, "The Interrupted Journey," which deals with the abduction of Betty and Barney Hill. But even more intriguing to the listener and relevant to the recent EQ Pegasi controversy is the fact that a SETI signal was associated with Betty Hill's interpretation. Robert Sheaffer writes: "Betty Hill herself discovered an impressive resemblance in a star map published in the New York Times. In 1965 a map of the stars of the constellation Pegasus appeared in that newspaper, accompanying the announcement by a Russian radio astronomer (Comrade Sholomitsky) that radio source CTA-102, depicted in the map, may be sending out intelligent radio signals. Intrigued by this remarkable claim, Betty Hill studied the map, and added the corresponding star names to her sketch. As you can see, the Pegasus map -- while not exactly like the sketch -- is impressively similar. If CTA-102 -- appearing near the 'globes' in her sketch -- was in reality an artificial radio source, that would give the Pegasus map much additional credibility. However, the case for the artificial origin of quasar CTA- 102 soon fell flat. Other scientists were unable to observe these reported strange variations which had caused Sholomitsky to suggest that CTA-102 might be pulsing intelligently." Sheaffer was commenting on Marjorie Fish's interpretation of the star map as depicting Zeta Reticuli and the surrounding stars. See the December 1974 issue of Astronomy or URL: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/papers/zeta.htm But there's a third interpration, too, as Sheaffer explains in this short summary to "alt.alien.visitors," dated January 23, 1992, URL: http://liquefy.isca.uiowa.edu/info/paranet/aav/04xxx/4043 Stig ******* Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Did a little research on Zeta Ret. Message-ID: <1992Jan23.052550.7791sheaffer@netcom.COM> Date: 23 Jan 92 05:25:50 GMT <snip> Actually, there have been THREE proposed identifications of the supposed alien 'star map' that Betty Hill drew after her 1961 "UFO abduction." I go into this in considerable detail in my book, "The UFO Verdict" (Prometheus, 1986), where I have a whole chapter on the Hill case. The first "identification" is, as Ron notes, in Fuller's book, 'The Interrupted Journey'. It is simply a visual match-up by Betty Hill of her 'star map' with a map of the constellation Pegasus. The second was the famous identification by Marjorie Fish, which gave us "Zeta Reticuli". Among ufologists, this is the only one it is "Politically Correct" to mention. It is a 3-D map of nearby stars, done by stringing beads on wires. It has major flaws that the pro-UFOlogists never talk about, that are too complex to write down here. They are in 'The UFO Verdict'. Suffice it to say that there are many inconsistencies and 'ad hoc' decisions in it. The third is a pattern detected by Charles Atterberg, using pencil and paper to plot the nearby stars. His accounts for more stars than does Fish's pattern, and while it contains many non-hospitable stars for life, the three main ones just 'happen' to be strong SETI candidates. But again, I think it's a case of 'seek long enough, and ye shall find'! --
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 8 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:28:07 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:51:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:58:41 -0000 >Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 18:16:34 -0500 >Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >The evidence is now >suggesting that the Soviets had discplanes attempting to >penetrate the Northern DEW lines from 1949 and under these >circumstances any US response along similar lines would not be >surprising. <snip> >I suggest >that flying discs are the big Cold War secret still to fully >emerge from the black world. <snip> >The point is this; based upon a good deal of credible evidence >we can now say with a certain assurance that flying discs were >and are an example of earthly technology. <snip> >I think 'flying triangle' reports are the same thing except >they're being seen now. >If there is any evidence for alien-human contact then at best it >is tenuous, anecdotal and entirely unproven. Gee, Tim. I don't know. Can't the same thing be said for the "discplane" craft you discribe above? I mean, without actual working examples, footage of them in action, or recovered (and verified) blueprints then the "discplanes" you speak of are just as elusive as any ET or UFO. Without proof, such discplane accounts would certainly fall under the "tenuous, anecdotal and entirely unproven" category you describe. As far as your position that "we can now say with a certain assurance that flying discs were and are an example of earthly technology"; I'm not convinced that explains all sightings. In addition, which came first? The alien disc shaped craft or the more Earthly emmulations inspired by visiting ETs? My point is this: I'm a good painter (if I do say so myself) and I could, and have, painted an exact copy of the Mona Lisa. But that hardly makes me a Da Vinci. The Wright brothers were inspired by birds, but the Wright brothers' success at flight never confused who did it first, the brothers or the birds. Likewise, terrestrial disc shaped craft may have been inspired by sightings of (if not direct access to) alien disc technology. Similar claims could be made regarding stealth technology and our newer line of "trianglular" craft popular in the military. Would sightings of such terrestrial craft explain many sightings? Of course. No one is denying that. But to claim that terrestrial craft, disc or otherwise, are responsible for ALL sightings is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? I respect your opinion. But I hardly see any proof to support such a concrete position, if that is your position. On the other hand, your Cold War discplane research sounds interesting. Keep me posted. Take care,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite From: Joachim Koch <achimkoch@compuserve.com> Date: Sun 08, Nov 98 17:45 CET Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 01:26:14 -0500 Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite >From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> >Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite! >This may be a naive question, especially as I am not well-versed >in British law, but what would the repercussions be if one chose >not to sign a 'security oath'? I have four questions: Does the NSA have any rights on Britsh territory to force someone to swear an oath on "National Security"? And: Which are the times it is forbidden for reasons of "National Security" to look up into the sky? Please tell me. Who owns the electromagnetic wavelengths? Who rules this planet? Joachim Koch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:00:09 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 01:36:40 -0500 Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In Steven Kaeser observed: > Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 06:45:36 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? > Since the issue seems to revolve around the > passenger/photographer it would seem that the solution would be > to automate the photographic process somehow. My guess is that > this strict enforcement of the law (or at least this > interpretation of it) won't stop the determined crop circle > photograph entrepenuers. > > This may be a rather large question to ask, but I'm curious as > to the legal status of 'UltraLight' aircraft in Great Britian. Another alternative would be the classic hot air balloon. Offhand, those would seem to be ideal platforms for photographing crop circles, as well as taking onlookers up for a better view. Might actually be a good way to earn a few bucks, er, pounds.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Crop Circle Lecture & UFO*BC Updates From: David Pengilly - UFO*BC <david_pengilly@dccnet.com> Date: 8 Nov 1998 10:33:54 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:08:39 -0500 Subject: Crop Circle Lecture & UFO*BC Updates We have recently updated our website - http://ufobc.org 1) "Crop Circle 98" Slideshow/Lecture!!! Michael Glickman, one of the world's leading crop circle researchers, will be giving a full slide presentation of this year's crop formations. Michael will also have his latest, and highly sought after, Crop Circle Calendars for sale. Local researcher Chad Deetken will also give a brief talk about his investigation into this year's formation in Vanderhoof, BC. The slide presentation will be at the Vancouver Planetarium on Saturday, November 28 at 7:30 PM. All tickets are $15 and will be available at Banyen Sound in Vancouver and Phoenix Books in Surrey. Reservations can be made through the UFO*BC Hotline at (604) 878-6511. As we expect this show to sell out, we advise to reserve or purchase tickets early. 2) "The New Westminster Boomerang" - report by Roger Smith 3) "Mystery in Marpole" - report by Bill Oliver 4) Latest Sightings Reported 5) "The Tagish Lake UFO Photo Report" - report by Martin Jasek. This will be the cover story for the upcoming issue of the Flying Saucer Review. 6) "Spherical UFO off Vancouver Island, 1937 - 1938" - report by Martin Jasek - latest addition to our Archives *********************************************************** If you do not want to receive these updates, please reply with your e-mail address and I will gladly remove your name from the list. Thank you. Dave Pengilly dave@ufobc.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website From: keith stevens <Keith@ufonet.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:57:03 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:11:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:46:45 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website >>From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >>Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:13:34 EST >>Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:41:32 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Shuts Down The Geocities Paul Dore Website >>The geocities site that posted Paul Dore's "SETI Signals at >>1450Mhz from EQ Pegasi?" has the National Security Agency seal >>in its place. See... >>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/ >>The pages and files once there have been removed. I have >>mirrored most of these original pages on UFOSEEK. You may view >>them at: >>http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/ >>(case sensitive) >>I encourage others to copy them while they are still around (for >>research), before the pages here also get replaced by the NSA >>seal. >Dear Mr. Graffeo and List: >This Dore affair has degenerated from a possible hoax to a >childish prank. >Bob Young Hi Bob and list I have to say that I have to agree with you on this one.The National Security Agency Seal....wow I really am impressed!!! It is sure a great way to get some one interested in your web sight! Perhaps someone can suggest an alternative list that the children can go and play on and leave the Adults alone on this one?...How about it EBK? Fancy starting another List?<G>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite From: keith stevens <Keith@ufonet.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:39:49 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:16:52 -0500 Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 17:32:41 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:51:45 EST >>Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:40:44 -0500 >>Subject: Re: 'SETI' Signals From Intelligence Satellite >>>From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:30:40 +0100 >>>Subject: Dore: 'SETI' Signals Are From Classified Intelligence Satellite >The Paul Dore story: (in a nutshell) >>>"Monday, the second of November has got to be one of the worst >>>24 hours I've ever experienced. Here is a brief synopsis of the >>>events that ensued." >>>6:00am I arrive at work ><snip> >>>I receive a call from the two astronomers stating they would not >>>be at the press conference at that I was 'essentially, on my >>>own.' ><snip> >>>Next my supervisor rings me up to tell me that I was to cease my >>>experiment immediately. ><snip> >>>7:00pm I arrive home to find three gentlemen in my residence. ><snip> >>>It turns out >>>one of the men was from the Government Communications >>>Headquarters (GCHQ) at Cheltenham, the other was from RAF >>>Feltwell and the third from the American National Security >>>Agency. ><snip> >>>It turns out that what I discovered was >>>in fact a classified intelligence satellite having to do with >>>something known as Project 415. I am being very careful here so >>>as not to violate the security oath they made me sign which >>>states that should I disclose any further detail on this subject >>>I will be subject to prosecution under the terms of the Official >>>Secrets Act. ><jumbo snip> >To this Jim replied: >>How can one know truth when fed an exclusive diet of falsehood? >How, indeed? >I'm curious how a representative of one country can force a >citizen of yet another country to sign anything? I'm not calling >Mr. Dore a liar, <snip> Hi Roger and List I admire your noble outlook, but if you will not call him a liar then allow me. This whole story is one big scam, it just screams hoax at the top of its voice. Men in his residence, one from each of the well known Government Centers, one from the NSA, these people have to convince him of the Security Implications behind his discovery, they tell him its code name for goodness sake! Sorry I am bored with him and his claims. He is yet another example of all that is bad in Ufology. The unfortunate thing about all of this is that it will be used by by those who think all UFO interested individuals are cranks or worse!. IMHO the sooner we all disregard this ridiculous individual and his claims and get back to trying to seek the truth the better we will be and the less ammunition we provide for the opposition!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Introduction From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:17:08 -0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:22:41 -0500 Subject: Introduction Well everybody, I'm new on this list. My name is Thiago Luiz Ticchetti, I'm from Brazil, member of the UFO Magazine Editorial Council. I hope to learn a lot here with you guys, and teach you some. See'ya * EU ACREDITO * (translating : I Believe) Thiago Ticchetti
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Statement From UK Crop Circle Makers From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 22:41:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:27:58 -0500 Subject: Statement From UK Crop Circle Makers I received this email and thought it might be of interest to the list. Michael ----- Date: 8 Nov 1998 23:48:09 -0000 From: Firedraake <firedraake@earthlink.net> To: Prophesied Earth-Changes List <earthprophecy-l@spiritweb.org> Subject: [earthprophecy-l] Statement From Crop Circle Makers In The UK Forwarded E-Mail Message "Mark LeCuyer" <randydan@wavetech.net> wrote: -=> Illusions Mailing List <=- >From the FCCI List To those concerned.... here is my statement on our activities. I hope people see the positive side to all of this - because there really is one. Love Matthew & Paul ---- I Matthew Williams admit that during the summer of 1998 I made crop circles in the United Kingdom. This effort was undertaken in order to continue research into the circles phenomena and follows on from limited circlemaking which took place in 96 and 97. The initial reasons for undertaking this research are as follows: 1. To determine how easy or hard it is to make complex formations. 2. To observe the reactions of researchers in the crop circle fraternity and to see how good their senses are for the recognition of man made circles. 3. To ascertain if their if there is a form of communication observable between circlemakers via pattern progression. This includes human and "alien" or "spirit" intelligences. 4. To observe if there were any unusual effects observable of an anomalous nature whilst making a circle - as has been stated on many occasions by other human circlemakers. 5. To understand the phenomena of circlemaking and its effects from a different perspective - that of a circlermaker as opposed to researcher. 6. To ascertain if various other claims of previous human circlemakers were true. The need for secrecy in our work was paramount so as not to change our results or effect the reactions of public or circles researchers. This was not an attempt to "HOAX" people - merely a need to maintain status quo, so as to establish a control sample from which we could guague reactions. We did inform some researchers of what we were doing and even some close friends. We obviously did not then refer to these people in our observations as they were no longer part of the control. Some people are offended because "they were not told". Well this is a fact they would have to deal with. As far as we are concerned we told only those that we considered important enough. Now that the "secret" is out, we are happy to talk more openly about our results. Hopefully this will satisfy the questions of those who were not given privvy to inside knowledge. RESULTS: It was clear that a few months into the circlemaking season that as we progressed in our endeavours that our group of circlemakers was changing its opinions and motorvations as to circlemaking. This also progressively effected a change in the inital questions that were being asked by us. We observed many unusual phenomena in and around the fields whilst making circles. We noticed changes in our outlook on life whilst making the circles and got a sense that we were in communciation with a much higher intelligence regarding the responses to our circle designs - ie: other circles which appeared as an apparent reponse to circles which we created. I will not go into to greater detail about what exactly these life altering changes were as some of this is still sinking in for me, the realisations still far too fantastic for me to feel comfortable writing about. However I can say that due to special coincidences which took place - which included the creation of almost exactly the same types of designs appearing in different parts of the country on the same nights as we were working, we had to conclude that human circlemakers (ourselves included) were being given inspiration from a higher source for their designs. Due to this change in attitude we them started to see circlemaking as a form of sacred art which has a higher purpose. This is how I still currently regard the subject. Our circles were regarded by the circle research community as genuine. We witnessed many measurable effects wuch as dowsability of the crop circle after creation. These tests were undertaken by both ourselves and independant researchers - albeit not to a scientific standard, but to a near enough level for our benefit. UFOs and other paranormal events were percieved in and around the areas where we were making circles whilst we undertook their construction. Whilst making circles we became aware that we were being protected by some unseen force or intelligence whilst we worked. This was evidenced many times to us and even took on the form of making us invisible and inaudible to people standing on the edge of the field we were working in. (We at first found this very very disconcerting having thought that we had been caught out by either members of the public or circles researchers, only to find out that we could not be seen or heard!) Maybey this is why no human circlemakers have ever been caught. People also experienced various equipment failures in our circles and strange video andphotographic evidence has been collected by circles researchers and public. CONCLUSIONS We believe Crop Circles to be a sacred form of art whose purpose is to mystify people and cause them to ask questions of themselves about their spirituality and the nature of the universe. Without the circles -whoever the creators are then such questions would not be asked. Crop circles do represent a tangable paranormal attractor and emitter. We think that the message of the higher intelligence behind inspiration for crop circles and subsequent paranormal activity contained therewithin is entirely benign and friendly in nature. The circles we made and considered by us to be genuine in both their undamaged nature - how we were able to achieve non damage to plants with use of our "stomper" boards (in the case of some, but not all, circles) is a magical effect. The subject grows in dynamism and interest due to human involvement - as it human involvement that is a heavy part of the circle phenomena. There is probably a non human intelligence working alongside human circle makers to create some circles outright. IE the original phenomena still remains creating circles - a fact to which ALL human circlemakers agree. This is a very worthy point to note! Evidence to this come in the form of additions to circles which appear in the morning. There are fruther conclusions that will be revealed as we compile our results. RECOMENDATIONS: Anyone wishing to take part in creating circles must do so with reverence and attempt to maintain a very high standard of work. They should not discuss the details fo their work with anyone outside their team - so as not to lose the magical effect for public observers. It is an old addage that authorship causes circles to lose they mystique. Mystique can be a shamanistic way to draw people towards a greater realisation through a occult act (in some cases). *please take the word occult in its literal sense, not a sinister sense* I am sure that those who do ask for guidance get it. Ask with humility and you may be surprised to see your circlemaking ability improve radically. When circles are made with the wrong intent they look bad and do not have paranormal effects attatched to them (sometimes they do but in a lessened quantity - or warped/strange effects are observed). Good luck everybody.... I think this information only goes to make the circle phenomena bigger than it ever was before. Circle researchers should at last now embrace these facts and get on board - see the bigger picture and we should all be thankful that circles have for those who are preapred to take seriously what they read here. Love and enlightenment Matthew Williams & Paul Damon EDITORS TRUTHSEEKERS REVIEW -Mark- ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Alien Astronomer - Exploring Our Universe http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583 UFOlogy - Astronomy - Secret Societies - Hi-Tech +------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Prophesied Earth-Changes List <earthprophecy-l@spiritweb.org>: 670 members (pu blic) | http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/earthprophecy-l.html Archive-password: gaia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Project SIGN Research Release From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 22:05:35 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:31:06 -0500 Subject: Project SIGN Research Release In an earlier posting I mentioned the 1948 Project SIGN Top Secret Estimate of the Situation (EToS). http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/nov/m03-004.shtml Since then, Wendy Connors, Project SIGN Research Center, has agreed to release summaries of her research. (See Below.) Alfred C. Loedding was the author of the EToS. He was an expert in "low aspect ratio aircraft." In a 1947 document he is referred to as "the engineer in charge of investigation of unidentified flying objects." (Please note the term was used in both early US and Canadian documents.) In Loedding's own resume he refers to himself as the "Initiator of Project SIGN." He was of German descent, spoke German fluently, and regularly had German scientists at Wright Field to his home for dinner. Since Wendy has agreed to release of some of her findings, it is possible to comment further on the theorized "flying disc plane" that secret weapons advocates have said was built at Wright Field without the knowledge of the Project SIGN. This idea is ludicrous. McCoy, Deyarmond, Goll, Seahorse, and others involved with Project SIGN were experts on German aircraft. Under Projects Paperclip, Lusty and Abstract, they had scoured German for aircraft and designs of German weapons. McCoy took all the technical information back to Wright Field microfilmed and had it translated. One must be careful when talking to relatives of these men. Mrs. McCoy told Dr. Michael Swords that Col. McCoy had nothing to do with Paperclip. Possibly, she did not want people to know that her husband worked with German scientists and military men, many of whom were former Nazis. However, McCoy did work with such people in compiling his technical library and in technical intelligence work. He wrote evaluations of the German's performance and value. Some of these may be found in the records at the National Archives and USAF Historical Research Agency at Maxwell AFB. Air Intelligence in Europe also periodically recommended additions to the Germans at Wright Field from interviews done with German aircraft designers, engineers and military men. That Col. McCoy who was seriously short handed and under budget constrains would waste his resources when he and Loedding both knew that German scientists at Dayton were producing flying discs is a completely foolish idea. McCoy would have reported to Twining, McDonald, and Cabell such projects were the cause of UFOs and would have recommended that Project SIGN be terminated. Loedding, the expert on low aspect ratio aircraft, would not have produced the EToS if he too knew of the disc plane projects at Wright Field. The "secret aircraft advocates" are barking up the wrong tree. It is possible, however, that Wright Field and even the Directorate of Intelligence (formerly ACS/Intel) were left out of the loop on such developments involving nuclear weapons. Cabell mentioned the lack of personnel with "Q" clearances at the establishment of the Air Force. Penetration bombers were being developed. One of the penetration devices for an attack on the Soviet Union was "parasite planes." Also, other developments such as decoys and Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) devices were also under testing. While the T-2/Intelligence Division/ATIC had liaison officers at the Atomic Energy Commission, the above projects were definitely Q clearance territory. So McCoy and the others might not have been read in on this research. I would expect, however, that the nuclear project officers would eventually let ATIC in on any such projects. However, there would still seem to be a good area of investigations for disc plane advocates. In my 1947 report, there is a parasite plane sighting. During the 1950 wave there is a widely reported sighting of an Air Force bomber over Texas releasing what to the witness looked like a disc. A test of a decoy or ECM device? What is needed here is less theorizing and more research. -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA Telephone: (860) 546-9135 -----Original Message----- From: Wendy Connors <ProjectSign@email.msn.com> To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSER.AOL.COM <PROJECT-1947@LISTSER.AOL.COM> Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 4:34 PM Subject: Research Data Release Greetings to the LIST and fellow researchers: On reflection I came to realize that I have not shared with the LIST some of my newest research. If memory serves me correctly I detailed my finding of the following since the beginning of the year: Locating and obtaining the Col. Albert Deyarmond files, the Interview of Bruce Deyarmond, the Interview of Dr. George E. Valley, Jr. and the Interviews of Donald Loedding, son of Alfred Loedding, including the obtaining and reproduction of the Loedding Glass Slide Collection. There may have been more, but I don't remember at the moment. OK, here is some new stuff for all of you to hopefully enjoy. 1. The Estimate of the Situation was, in fact, written by Alfred C. Loedding. 2. The famous photo of Alfred Loedding with the "Flying Saucer" model he made is factual, it actually did fly, was tested at the Wright Field Wind Tunnel after hours to avoid problems, was red in color and was based upon testimony from military witnesses as to objects observed he obtained while working on Project SIGN. 3. Photographs of the actual working model of the flying disc patent design have been located. Unfortunately, the actual model was destroyed in a move by Don Loedding in 1974 when he moved from South America back to the United States. 4. My research partner, Michael David Hall and I have knowledge of who actually fired many of the members of the Project SIGN team. This is an ongoing effort and we will not release any more details regarding this matter at this time. 5. I have located and received from George Towles many of his personal papers and a photograph. An interview has been arranged. 6. Much of the dissension among the military regarding Project SIGN was based upon the fact that the SIGN project was not funded and monies were funneled from other important research projects to be used by the SIGN team in their investigation. 7. Project SIGN was a parallel investigation in conjunction with investigations being conducted both at AFOIN and the ONI/ONR. 8. Alfred Loedding was the first civilian head of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory at Wright Field in 1941 and began the process for what we know as the JPL today. 9. Many FOIA requests have been made to attempt to obtain new documentation regarding the Estimate of the Situation. 10. Mike Hall and myself have recently completed a general interest book on Alfred Loedding and the 1947 UFO Wave. It will be available late next month or early January. It is titled, "Alfred Loedding and the Great Flying Saucer Wave of 1947." We will take advanced orders. Price has not been set. There is much new information regarding early 1947 sightings in the book. 11. Final draft copies of my book are now located at the Fund for UFO Research and the Dr. J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies. No date or publisher has been set for its release. It is tentatively titled: "Anatomy of a Project: Project SIGN. An Illustrative History of the First Secret Investigation of UFOs by the USAF." 12. An International UFO Reporter article detailing Michael Hall and my work on Loedding is tentatively scheduled for release early next year. 13. I have been invited and accepted a guest shot on the MSN UFO Forum Chat for November 27th. Wendy Connors Project SIGN Research Center InterLink Site Directory http://www.evansville.net/~slk/InterLink.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: NewsFlash: UFO News Sightings From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:59:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:42:18 -0500 Subject: Re: NewsFlash: UFO News Sightings >From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:10:21 EST >Subject: NewsFlash: UFO News Sightings >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Iam Dorian> >To: <Ndunlks@aol.com> (Researcher Steven L. Wilson, Sr) >From: Capt AJ 3 > http://www.bufora.org.uk/times/news/news.htm >UFO News Sightings >UFO News >New Information or Dis-information? >WASHINGTON (AP) -- With growing hysteria over alleged UFO >sightings in the 1950s, the Air Force repeatedly concocted false >cover stories to hide the fact that their super-secret spy >planes had been spotted, an intelligence study says. > >Historian Gerald K. Haines writes that the Air Force, responding >to alleged UFO sightings during the Cold War years, frequently >provided explanations that were untrue to deflect attention away >from the spy planes. >"Over half of all UFO reports from the late 1950s through the >1960s were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights >(namely the U-2) over the United States," Haines wrote in the >spring issue of Studies of Intelligence, an unclassified CIA >journal. The article was found Saturday on the Internet. >> Deja vue or what? This was hot news in August of 1997 when the US press "discovered" the Haines article in "Studied in Intelligence" that had been published in May 1997. Oh well, it's still garbage a year later. To see why, read the following paper: CIA'S UFO EXPLANATION IS PREPOSTEROUS by Bruce Maccabee June 3, 1997 "The CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90" is a recently published article that describes CIA involvement in the history of UFO phenomena. The article, by CIA historian Gerald Haines, is published in the unclassified version of "Studies in Intelligence," a twice-yearly CIA journal (Volume 1, 1997, pg. 67). The article presents the history of CIA involvement as determined mostly from documents released by the CIA nearly 20 years ago. There is also some updating on CIA activities since the documents were released in December, 1978. According to the CIA documents, in the early days (late 40's early 50's) the CIA got its UFO information from the Air Technical Intelligence Center at the Air Materiel Command headquartered at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton, Ohio. This was the "home" of Projects SIGN, GRUDGE and BLUE BOOK (see below). Consequently the CIA was "fed" the conventional AF position on the subject (no evidence of truly new technology; no evidence of a threat). In the late summer of 1952 the CIA investigated Project Blue Book and concluded that it was satisfactory if all one wanted to do was separate explainable sightings from those which were not explainable. However, the CIA analysts were critical of the Air Force for not studying the unexplained sightings to find out the underlying causes of the reports. The CIA evaluated the whole subject and concluded that there might really be something unusual going on. During the fall of 1952 at least one CIA official, Marshall Chadwick, apparently believed that the unexplained sightings were a real mystery. However, before carrying out an in-depth study to be authorized by the National Security Council, he wanted to have a panel of experts review the situation. This panel, which came to be known as the Robertson Panel after its chairman, carried out its review in early 1953. After this review, which basically adopted the AF official position that everything could be explained, the CIA apparently lost interest in the subject. All of the above has been known for years. However, the new article reveals some information which was still classified Top Secret in December, 1978 when the FOIPA documents were released. According to Mr. Haines' article, when the U-2 high altitude spy plane began flying (first flight on August 4, 1955), CIA project directors discovered that "commercial pilots and air traffic controllers began reporting a large increase in UFO sightings." The U-2 is the high altitude spy plane made famous by the 1960 shootdown of Gary Powers as he flew over the Soviet Union and by photos taken from a U-2 of Russian missile sites in Cuba during the "Cuban Missile Crisis." Mr. Haines has written, "According to later estimates from CIA officials who worked on the U-2 project and the OXCART (SR-71 or Blackbird) project, over half of all UFO reports from the late 1950's through the 1960's were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights (namely the U-2) over the United States. This led the Air Force to make misleading and deceptive statements to the public in order to allay public fears and to protect an extraordinarily sensitive national security project. While perhaps justified, this deception added fuel to the later conspiracy theories and the coverup controversy of the 1970's. The percentage of what the Air force considered unexplained UFO sightings fell to 5.9 percent in 1955 and to 4 percent in 1956." This explanation for many ("over half of all") UFO reports has never before been publicized. It was not contained within documents released by the CIA in December, 1978 after a lawsuit filed under the Freedom of Information and Privacy Act (FOIPA) by Ground Saucer Watch, a civilian UFO organization which ended its activitied in the early 1980's. According to Mr. Haines the U-2 was reported as a UFO because "the early U-2's were silver (they were later painted black) and reflected the rays of the sun, especially at sunrise and sunset. They often appeared as fiery objects to observers below. Air Force BLUE BOOK investigators, aware of the secret U-2 flights, tried to explain away such sghtings by linking them to natural phenomena such as ice crystals and temperature inversions. By checking with the Agency's U-2 Project Staff in Washington, BLUE BOOK investigators were able to attribute many UFO sightings to U-2 flights. They were careful, however, not to reveal the true cause of the sighting to the public." Project BLUE BOOK was the publicly known Air Force effort to collect and explain, if possible, UFO sightings. Any sightings which they could not explain were categorized as unknown. No careful analyses of the unknowns were carried out. Project BLUE BOOK ran from early 1951 through 1969. When it closed BLUE BOOK and its predecessors (Project SIGN, 1948, and Project GRUDGE, 1949-1951) had collected about 13,000 sightings, of which about 700 were left unexplained. The claim that the U-2 caused "over half of all UFO reports from the late 1950's through the 1960's" is, to put it gently, preposterous. The U-2, with its 80 ft long by 6 ft wide (front to back) wingspan flew at 60-70,000 feet and at that altitude was essentially invisible during the day.It created no contrail because of the lack of moisture at that altitude. It was, after all, designed to be attract little attention from the ground as it flew at a higher altitude than could be attained by any Russian defense missiles! Nevertheless, during the hour before sunrise and the hour following sunset it would be possible for an unpainted aircraft to reflect the sun enough to be visible, perhaps with a reddish glow resulting from the reddening of sunlight (caused by passage of the sunlight through the atmosphere, which acts like a filter that removes blue and green relative to red). High altitude balloons (e.g., Project SKYHOOK) did cause some UFO reports during these times of day and were so identified by the Air Force and civilian investigators. However, only a small fraction of sightings occur during these times. The largest fraction of sightings is at night when the U-2 can't be seen and the next largest fraction is during the daytime. A check of the Project BLUE BOOK sighting statistics in the "Condon Report" ("Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects," D.S. Gilmor, Ed., Air Force publication, 1968; Bantam edition, 1969, pg. 514), which includes sightings by pilots and air traffic controllers as well as by military personnel and civilians, shows the following numbers of sightings for the six months before to the six months after flights began in early August: Feb - 34, Mar -41, Apr - 33, May - 54, Jun - 48, Jul - 63, Aug - 68, Sep - 57, Oct - 55, Nov - 32, Dec - 25, Jan (1956) - 43. Notice that the August increase of 5 reports over the number in July may have been just a continuation of the overall increase that began in April, 1955. Then the number of reports per month dropped even though the number of U-2 flights increased. The total number of reports during the 6 months before the start of U-2 flights is 273. The total number for the 6 months following the start (Aug - Jan) is 280. Thus there was a 100 x (7/273) = 2.6% increase in the number of reports following the start of U-2 flights using the six month totals. These numbers are the sum of explained and unexplained sightings and so include U-2 sightings, if any. These statistics suggest that the U-2 was causing no more than a few percent of the sightings (and may have caused NONE of the sightings!). Comparing yearly statistics in the Condon Report we find: 1953 - 509, 1954 - 487, 1955 - 545. In 1956 there was an increase during the summer months with 72 in July, 123 in August and 71 in September which, when added to the nominal rate for the other months (40 to 50 per month) resulted in a total of 670 for the year. The year 1957 had 1005 reports, mostly as a result of the "Sputnik Flap" (103 in October, 361 in November and 136 in December; other months were in the range 40 - 70 reports). Although the number of U-2 aircraft and the number of flights increased during the following years the number of sightings showed no correlation: 1958 - 627, 1959 - 390, 1960 - 557, 1961 - 591, 1962 - 474, etc. Statistics based on a different set of data are contained within the "U Database" of over 14,000 sightings by Larry Hatch (Larry Hatch Software, 142 Jeter St., Redwood City, CA 94025-1957). This excellent PC based software provides statistics that are based on unexplained sightings recorded by Project BLUE BOOK and by other organizations (civilian UFO groups). If Project BLUE BOOK investigators explained some sightings as the U-2, these sightings would not appear in the list of unexplained BLUE BOOK sightings and hence would not be included in this database. On the other hand, the far larger collection of non-Blue Book sightings in this database could include U-2 sightings, if the CIA is correct, that were not identified by civilian investigators who were unaware of the U-2's existence. Hence a comparison of the sighting statistics before and after U-2 flights started could provide evidence that the U-2 was being reported as a UFO. In this database I find the following: YEAR/MONTH Ja Fe Ma Ap Ma Ju Ju Au Sep Oc Nov De TOTAL 1954 13 13 12 17 25 28 18 14 18 4 15 10 187 1955 11 8 9 4 12 11 30 29 12 13 12 6 157 1956 10 11 7 5 13 20 33 43 9 6 12 3 174 1957 3 6 7 3 6 5 12 7 9 10 110 11 189 1958 5 0 4 8 3 5 2 8 4 12 6 1 58 As one can see from the above table, there is no evidence of an increase in monthly sighting rate following the first flight of the U-2 on Aug. 4, 1955. The large increase in November, 1957 occurred just after Sputnik 2 was launched. (This flap is noted for the large number of close-range car-stopping events. Most of the sightings were not sightings of Sputnik itself.) An even more telling set of statistics uses the sightings which occurred near sunrise or sunset when, according to Mr. Haines, the U-2 would have appeared as a shiny or fiery bright spot in the sky. TIME 0400 to 0700 (which encompasses the time before sunrise) (With a time window this wide we get an overestimate of the number of sightings just before sunrise; the time of sunrise varies during the year.) August 1955 is noted by *2*. YEAR/MONTH 1953 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 5 1954 0 0 1 0 0 2 1 1 2 0 0 0 7 1955 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 *2* 1 1 1 0 7 1956 0 1 0 1 1 2 6 2 1 0 1 0 15 1957 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 13 1 19 1958 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 TIME 1700 to 2100 (which encompasses the time after sunset) (With a time window this wide we get an overestimate of the number of sightings just after sunset; local sunset time varies during the year.) YEAR/MONTH 1953 9 3 2 1 2 3 2 4 6 2 7 3 44 1954 3 2 0 5 5 8 5 2 4 2 4 0 40 1955 5 3 3 0 5 0 10 *7* 2 4 5 2 46 1956 5 1 2 2 2 2 6 12 2 0 3 0 37 1957 0 2 0 0 0 1 0 3 1 2 26 3 38 1958 1 0 1 2 1 0 1 1 2 0 1 0 10 Clearly there is no statistical support for a sudden increase in the number of sightings at sunrise or sunset when the U-2 started flying. In fact, the number of sightings during the evening time period was lower in August, 1955, than during July. In the early 1960's many of the U-2s were painted black or other camouflage colors thus reducing the number of U-2's that could potentially be seen by glint reflection from the sun. Hence the probability of seeing one was even less than before. Aside from the statistics it should be pointed out that many of the unexplained sightings involved relatively nearby, structured objects rather than far distant, nearly invisible points of light. Many of the unidentified objects were reported to move rapidly at apparent (angular) speeds that would far exceed the apparent speed of a U-2 (about 500 mph) flying at 60 - 70,000 ft (the U-2 would seem to move slowly, if seen at all). The documented history of the agency involvement has been published in "Clear Intent" by Larry Fawcett and Barry Greenwood, In "UFOs, The Public Deceived" by Philip Klass (in my opinion, Phil deceived the public!) in "Above Top Secret" by Timothy Good and most recently in "The FBI-UFO Connection/the REAL X-files" by Bruce Maccabee (available from the author). The complete CIA history paper is available on the web page of the Center for the Study of Intelligence at www.odci.gov/csi (where odci = Office of the Director of Central Intelligence.... shudder!). When you get to the "front page" look under What's New and then check through the table of contents of Studies in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:04:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:47:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:58:41 -0000 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>Date: 06 November 1998 05:35 >>From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >>Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:46:15 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>>Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:12:11 -0000 >>>Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:46:21 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >There are many secrets - some to do with the Cold War. I suggest >that flying discs are the big Cold War secret still to fully >emerge from the black world........I further suggest a certain >element of psychological warfare in terms of the handling of the >UFO subject by the authorities.... >The definite impression given was that this chap had held back >to some extent because of this loyalty and allegiance stuff >which is taken quite seriously by the older generation in >Germany although not particularly by the new generation of >Germans - with some unfortunate exceptions..... >The point is this; based upon a good deal of credible evidence >we can now say with a certain assurance that flying discs were >and are an example of earthly technology. I'll send you some >stuff privately on this. Anyone who is contemplating taking this seriously should read my book 'The FBI/UFO Connection' first and find out why the US Air Force was really worried about the possibility of a Soviet quantum jump in technology but also was not willing to fully accept that idea that flying discs were Soviet devices.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:26:52 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 09:16:10 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road >From: Karen Guetzow <kareng@xanadu2.net> >Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:43:52 -0800 >Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:54:36 -0500 >Subject: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road >A UFO researcher intent on gathering data along U.S. Highway 666 >encountered a change of plans when he was forced off the highway >by someone entirely terrestrial. Michael Unum, author and >researcher had planned an ambitious 340 mile bicycle trip from >Monticello, Utah, which was to begin Oct. 4th and end Oct. 8th >or 9th. His destination was Gallup, New Mexico. <snip> >On Oct. 6th Unum was leaving Cortez, Colorado, when he was >followed by a Federal police car for a short time. Who are the "Federal police"? Never heard of them. A few miles south of town he would have entered the Ute Mountain Indian Reservation, maybe the car belonged to the reservation police. And so what, anyway? >Four hours later when he was 11 miles north of Shiprock, New >Mexico near the Ute Mountain Indian Reservation, he was forced >off the road by a blue Air Force-type mechanics truck. The >civilian driver "pulled right in front of me and stopped suddenly >forcing me into the ditch. He then got out of the truck and >inspected his tires and adjusted his mirror. He never once >looked at me." Fatigue and shock prevented Unum from >responding to the attack ... the bike's front fork and rim were >seriously damaged. A couple days previously I had been in this area and on this same stretch of highway and had noticed a number of bicyclists. The Mesa Verde National Park is nearby. I saw an older guy peddling across a desolate stretch of road through Monument Valley a few miles to the West. Unfortunately, apparently deliberate road attacks like this on non-UFOlogical cyclists are common all around the country. Where I come from in Pennsylvania they often come from laughing pick-up drivers like this one. A neighbor of mine was badly hurt a few years ago by a pick-up truck driver who knocked him over to skid on the road, and left laughing. My friend peddled 20 miles to a hospital. Too bad, and I'm very glad that Mr. Unum was not hurt, beyond being shook up. But, so what? Did he make a complaint to the Navaho Reservation Police, where he was when the incident occurred? No much elso one could do. What is an "Air Force-type mechanics truck", driven by a civilian? Could Unum or our informant be more specific before putting this kind of paranoia on the net? I'll bet the Air Force has more important things to do than intimidate bicyclists on a well-travelled public highway who are really UFOlogists in disguise (see pixs on website). Give us a break! Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:02:58 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 10:18:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Date: 08 November 1998 17:51 >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:28:07 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:58:41 -0000 >>Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 18:16:34 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>The evidence is now >>suggesting that the Soviets had discplanes attempting to >>penetrate the Northern DEW lines from 1949 and under these >>circumstances any US response along similar lines would not be >>surprising. ><snip> >>I suggest >>that flying discs are the big Cold War secret still to fully >>emerge from the black world. ><snip> >>The point is this; based upon a good deal of credible evidence >>we can now say with a certain assurance that flying discs were >>and are an example of earthly technology. ><snip> >>I think 'flying triangle' reports are the same thing except >>they're being seen now. >>If there is any evidence for alien-human contact then at best it >>is tenuous, anecdotal and entirely unproven. >Gee, Tim. I don't know. Can't the same thing be said for the >"discplane" craft you discribe above? I mean, without actual >working examples, footage of them in action, or recovered (and >verified) blueprints then the "discplanes" you speak of are just >as elusive as any ET or UFO. Without proof, such discplane >accounts would certainly fall under the "tenuous, anecdotal and >entirely unproven" category you describe. >As far as your position that "we can now say with a certain >assurance that flying discs were and are an example of earthly >technology"; I'm not convinced that explains all sightings. In >addition, which came first? The alien disc shaped craft or the >more Earthly emmulations inspired by visiting ETs? >My point is this: >I'm a good painter (if I do say so myself) and I could, and >have, painted an exact copy of the Mona Lisa. But that hardly >makes me a Da Vinci. The Wright brothers were inspired by birds, >but the Wright brothers' success at flight never confused who >did it first, the brothers or the birds. >Likewise, terrestrial disc shaped craft may have been inspired >by sightings of (if not direct access to) alien disc technology. >Similar claims could be made regarding stealth technology and >our newer line of "trianglular" craft popular in the military. >Would sightings of such terrestrial craft explain many >sightings? Of course. No one is denying that. But to claim that >terrestrial craft, disc or otherwise, are responsible for ALL >sightings is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? >I respect your opinion. But I hardly see any proof to support >such a concrete position, if that is your position. On the other >hand, your >Cold War discplane research sounds interesting. Keep me posted. >Take care, >Roger Evans Hi Roger, You are mistaken if you believe that there are no blueprints! What do you think all these technical documents - the most obvious example being the 'Silver Bug' - are? There are several projects for which we have technical documents including AVRO Projects 724, Project Y/Y2, WS606 A/B, the joke Avrocar, as well as dozens of private patents for discplanes. Check out the US Patent Server. As well as that we have various CIA and FBI documents alluding to German LAR craft and have interviewed various people who claim to have either seen or worked on these discplanes whilst at classified military facilities. It is simply NOT true that there is as little evidence for this research as that which 'supports' the ETH/PSH. Most people would tend to agree that some 'structured' discs had been seen and although all too often these are confused with balls of lights and other strange phenomena there are core sightings of disc which are terrestrial in origin. Furthermore it is not the case that we 'copied' "alien" discs as there is an unbroken line of development of very low aspect ratio aircraft going back to the end of WW1 and which was very well documented in the AS Weyl article for "Aeroplane" magazine back in 1948 - another bit of evidence so conveniently ignored by the UFO buffs. The US Navy had their V-173, performing very well (beyond all expectations) during the Second World War and ONLY now that our research points to the wartime development of discs do these new inventions about prewar UFO crash landings start to emerge again - having been forgotten and ignored by the Roswell retrieval school of 'thinking'. If you want some technical type documents I'll send you them. Same goes for all the other doubters out there. Tim Matthews.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: Project Silverbug From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:07:55 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 10:24:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Project Silverbug >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Silverbug >Date: 08 November 1998 17:03 >Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 18:47:50 -0800 >From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project Silverbug >>Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 19:24:25 -0500 >>From: Kenny Young - T.A.S.K. <task@fuse.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Project Silverbug >>PROJECT SILVERBUG >>This message is to inform of a recent article regarding the >>controversial 'Project Silverbug'. This interesting and >>information-packed article was produced by George Belanus, a >>researcher from Bridgeport, Ohio. Belanus has been a part-time >>writer and reporter for several newspapers including The >>Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. >>The report is located at: >>http://home.fuse.net/task/Silverbug.htm >>Contact information for Belanus is also listed at this location. >I have talked with Frank Batts and a lengthy interview with him >and friend was conducted by Jeff Rense well over a year ago when >this experience first hit the Internet. >There is absolutely nothing in Frank's story to indicate any >connection to Silverbug or anything else. He saw what he did, >experienced what he did. What that was is unclear. >-- >Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Having spent the last 18 months looking into 'Silver Bug' (note correct spelling -two words) it is good to know that finally people are catching up with it. We have a good deal of evidence that the Silver Bug discs were developed in Canada and flown at Papoose Lake as well as Holloman AFB which might explain all this BS about aliens and discs that emerged via 'intelligence sources' back in 1972 (I think that's the correct date). In fact I posted information to the UFOMIND site a couple of weeks ago but can forward this to you if you want. They were developed specifically as a response to certain evidence of Soviet aggression and increasing intelligence (not to mention unjustified ant-Soviet paranoia) about possible Soviet discplanes and flying wing aircraft - see AIR 100-203-79. I also mentioned this new material on Jeff Rense "Sightings" programme recently and will be back on the programme on 15/11 with further revelations. I suggest people tune in. Tim Matthews.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: Project Silverbug From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 03:35:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 10:33:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Project Silverbug >Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 18:47:50 -0800 >From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project Silverbug >I have talked with Frank Batts and a lengthy interview with him >and friend was conducted by Jeff Rense well over a year ago when >this experience first hit the Internet. >There is absolutely nothing in Frank's story to indicate any >connection to Silverbug or anything else. He saw what he did, >experienced what he did. What that was is unclear. >Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> ======================= [The following reply is from George Belanus:] I have noted with interest the response of one Skye Turell to the Project Silver Bug story which I wrote. The article appears at: http://home.fuse.net/task/Silverbug.htm I thought a few observations might be in order. Mr. Turell noted that he spoke with Frank Batts and his friend, who had the sighting of the saicer shaped object at a range of approximately 200 yards at a distance of ONLY SEVEN MILES from the Area 51 section of Nellis AFB. He is absolutely correct in his rather brief statement, which said ``There is absolutely nothing in Frank's story to indicate any connection to Silverbug or anything else. He saw what he did, experienced what he did. What that was is unclear.'' Turell also noted that he had talked with Batts and his friend, and those two California residents had been interviewed by Jeff Rense well over a year ago when their experience first hit the Internet. I am currently not in the news reporting business any longer. But I was a reporter off and on for some 20 years, mainly in the areas of police, court, county commission, and city council coverage. Based on that experience, I can assure you that just what one person says on a particular subject or incident is never, ever the entire story behind any given subject. That is why I said Turell was absolutely right in his observation about the account by Mr. Batts and his friend. Frank, however, is apparently not a UFO investigator. He and his friend went to the Nellis area like probably several thousand other Americans have to do one thing ... look at the strange lights which fly through the night sky there. By his own account, Frank Batts simply lucked out and came across this strange craft merely by a mixup in directions with some blind luck thrown in. He told his story, but apparently knew nothing of Project Silver Bug prior to my talking with him via email. I remember well that his second message to me, in response to followup questions, began with ``George, how do you know this stuff about Project Silver Bug?'' The point here is very simple. Frank Batts and his friend, because they apparently did not hear about Project Silver Bug in all this time, didn't know anything about it. It is up to persons who have looked into this subject for some time, mounting to years, to be well enough informed to be able to see a possible connection. In my case, the reverse was true. I first 'discovered' Project Silver Bug by purchasing Popular Mechanics magazine when they ran their Roswell 50th anniversary cover story, about the same time Mr. Turell said Batts' story first hit the net and Batts and friend were interviewed. It was only in the last month or so that I found out about Frank Batts. Guess what? The first thing that simply cried out when I read Batts' account was that there could well be a connection to the old Silver Bug project which is the subject of the 1955 report on that project which I have in my possession. This is the same report that has been on several web sites on the Internet. No doubt many UFO investigators and persons interested in the phenomenon have seen it on the Web also. I got my personal copy by calling the historian's office at the old Foreign Technology Division at Wright-Patterson AFB. That person was gracious enough to mail out a copy to me since it had been declassified back in 1994. I would like to point out here that there were plenty of references through the story I wrote, which Mr. Turell should have noticed since he apparently read the story, that Batts' account COULD BE confirmation that Silver Bug MAY have come to fruition in some way, shape or form. If Mr. Turell would please re-read the story, he will probably notice that. Most of the story gives plenty of background which shows the Air Force was interested in disk-shaped aircraft from the early to middle 1950s onward for one reason or another. And that is all it does. It may sound like I am being a bit harsh with Mr. Turell. That is certainly not my intention. All I am saying is that he apparently just missed the point of the whole exercise. That is to say that from a strictly Earthbound point of view, there was a lot of research going on for slightly over 40 years into building such a craft by the Air Force when Batts had his sighting. This doesn't even take into account one other possibility which was raised in just the past two days since the story appeared on Kenny Young's web site. Everybody knows there was some type of crash near Roswell, NM, back in 1947. A lot of persons who saw the wreckage, who had no reason to lie, have said they saw what was an alien craft with the dead bodies of extraterrestrials around it, and the military put the grabs on it. Now, the main second question lurking in the background here is whether or not the Air Force managed to reverse engineer any of the parts off that apparent alien craft to build a craft like the one Frank Batts saw in 1997--50 years after the Roswell crash. Many persons who are UFO investigators and others who have a more general interest in them really believe the Air Force is flying some type alien craft at Nellis. I personally have seen accounts on the Internet which say a General was killed there flying one which crashed, for instance. But so far there has been absolutely no documented proof that I have seen which would prove beyond the proverbial reasonable doubt that the General in question was really flying an alien craft. Why is this? How come nobody can actually lay anything on the table and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Air Force has come up with something that flies at least in part due to alien technology, back engineered or just handed to the Air Force by little grey creatures with large black eyes? I hope Mr. Turell and everybody else does not take this personally, but anybody else who follows UFOlogy had the same amount of time I did and more to come up with the background I did, then write it up, and come across somebody like Kenny Young who had the guts to put it up on his Web site. He did that in the sure knowledge there was going to be some heat over it but he did it anyway, apparently out of an ability to understand that there are many avenues to discovering the truth. The sad truth is that UFOlogy has turned into a form of entertainment at present, where anybody can come up with tales about massive underground bases near Dulce, NM, not present any proof for it like blueprints, and everybody swallows it hook line and sinker ... even though parts of it sound like something from a poorly written horror comic book from the 1950s. Meanwhile (and excuse me Mr. Turell ... I'm not really trying to kick you in the slats) people cannot understand that trying to flesh out the story behind UFOs and what they are means that sometimes you have to add what is provable, documentable details to an account like what Frank Batts came up with through sheer luck. The point of the story is that what is known from just an Earthbound point of view is that there are plenty of avenues the Air Force could have been following to build such a craft over the years ... not that Frank Batts didn't say anything about Project Silver Bug. And who knows ... maybe the next story I get onto a web site will address documentable stuff about reverse engineered alien craft wreckage. That is, unless somebody like Mr. Rense or Mr. Turell manage to beat me to it. But if they do, and it's good documentable information, that's all to the good. Because then we'll have gotten past having UFOlogy as a spectator sport and form of entertainment and will have gotten to where people have to comprehend what they read, then follow it up with investigation instead of merely saying it is unclear what it was that Frank Batts saw.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: Return to Shaitan Mazar From: Nikolay V. Subbotin <Nikolay.Subbotin@psu.ru> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:15:50 +0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 11:12:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Return to Shaitan Mazar >Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 08:59:59 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Return to Shaitan Mazar >Source: http://ufos.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa100498.htm >Check out the page for more associated links. <snip> Hi! Ok. If you need I can send more info about this expedition (photos, video)... Regards, Nikolay Subbotin director RUFORS ___________________________________ MAILLIST RUFORS (C) 1997-98 RUSSIAN UFO RESEARCH STATION Nikolay Subbotin (norsa@psu.ru), ICQ 7227013 Director RUFORS (Russian UFO Research Station) [http://www.rufors.com] [http://cdl.bmstu.ru/~rf] Editor Russian UFO Magazine "Dialog: Earth - Space" [http://www.cross.ru/dialog] PO BOX 6303, Perm, Russia 614010 Tel/fax 7-3422-450184 -----=C8=F1=F5=EE=E4=ED=EE=E5 =F1=EE=EE=E1=F9=E5=ED=E8=E5----- =CE=F2: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> =CA=EE=EC=F3: UFO UpDates Subscribers :; <UFO UpDates Subscribers :;> =C4=E0=F2=E0: =EF=EE=ED=E5=E4=E5=EB=FC=ED=E8=EA 9 =ED=EE=FF=E1=F0=FF 1998= 2:06 =E5=EC=E0: UFO UpDate: Return to Shaitan Mazar Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 08:59:59 +0000 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Subject: Return to Shaitan Mazar Source: http://ufos.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa100498.htm Check out the page for more associated links. ----- Return to Shaitan Mazar Dateline:10/04/98 Participants in the expedition to Shaitan Mazar. >From left to right: Oleg Murashev, Nelli Slugina, Anton Bogatov, Nikolay Subbotin, Alexey Kostenko, Emil Bachurin. Photo by Maxim Slugin. Copyright by Nikolay Subbotin =A9 and Russian UFO Research Station =A9, 1998. Used with permission. A Report From Russia At Last! On August 17, in an article entitled Shaitan Mazar, I told you about ufologists Nikolay Subbotin and Emil Bachurin of the Russian UFO Research Station (RUFORS) and their expedition in search of a 600 meter long UFO (artist's conception) that supposedly had crashed into a gorge called Shaitan Mazar("Grave of the Devil")in the Tien Shan ("Celestial") Mountains of Kyrgyzstan near the border with China in August of 1991. I had wondered for six long weeks what Nikolay and Emil had found, and this week I got the answer in an e-mailed document that was in the familiar broken English of the computerized translator that Nikolay uses to translate his messages from Russian. Once again, please remember that it is very difficult to understand these translations perfectly, so I must sometimes guess the intended meaning. On 19 August, 1998, Nikolay and his group left Moscow and travelled first to Almatis in search of German Svechkov, who was a member of the June, 1992 expedition to investigate the crashed object. They found Svechkov's son, Vasily, but he refused to tell them where to find German Svechkov. Emil Bachurin was willing to look for Svechkov, but the sponsor of the expedition, Anton Bogatov, insisted that they not spend any more time looking for Svechkov. Bogatov was becoming concerned about how the Russian economic crisis might hurt his business, and wanted to get back home as quickly as possible. The expedition arrived in Karakol on the evening of 20 August and spent the night in a local hotel. Karakol is about 250 kilometers from the crash site, and the expedition hoped to rent a helicopter there to fly them to a suitable campsite near the gorge. The next morning, they went to the airport, where they were told that there were no helicopters available. This was very bad news because they only had enough money to rent a helicopter and for the return trip to Moscow. The airport manager, trying to be helpful, told them that there was a camp of mountain climbers in the Tien Shan Mountains only fifty kilometers from the crash site, and that these people would rent their helicopter to the expedition if the expedition could get to their campsite. However, since both the campsite and the crash site were in a restricted area near the Chinese border, it would be necessaary to get special permission from the border authority to go there. This was easier said than done. The border authority told them that they must first get permission from the militia. So, off to the militia office they went. The militia told them that they should first register with the local passport office of Kazahkstan. At the passport office they were told that they should talk to the local branch of the KGB. The KGB sent them back to the militia. After going in circles for a while, they stopped and considered their options: 1. They could rent a small plane - an AN-28 - and overfly the site. This choice had two unpleasant drawbacks: a) There was no landing strip in the area, so any photos would have to be made from the air, and it would be very difficult to make any good pictures from an airplane. b) The last aircraft that had approached the site too closely had experienced fatal mechanical problems caused by the intense magnetic field (or anti-magnetic field?) radiated by the object. 2. They could ignore the border authority, the militia, the passport office and the KGB, and just go, hoping their journalistic credentials would get them by. And so our brave comrades risked spending the rest of their vacation in Siberia and headed for Shaitan Mazar. As luck would have it, their vehicle broke down on the way and they had to stand in a cold rain for four hours. During this stop, however, they spoke to a shepherd who told them that they were only 20 kilometers from the crash site. Since ten of those kilometers were over mountains, the expedition decided to go on to the camp at which they had been told they could rent a helicopter. The shepherd also told them that there was a sacred spring at Shaitan Mazar at which many people had been healed of various illnesses. On 23 August the expedition reached the border outpost of Mai-Odir, and found that the border guards were very friendly and hospitable, allowing them to camp nearby. The next day, with only enough money to rent the helicopter for one day, they did so, and took off in search of the crash site. In about 20 minutes they had found the site by following the directions of Emil Bachurin, who had been to the crash site with an earlier expedition. The UFO, however, was gone. Photo copyright by Nikolay Subbotin =A9 and Russian UFO Research Station =A9, 1998. Used with permission. The helicopter set down at a safe distance from the odd magnetic field, if indeed the field was still there, and they walked to the site. The site was at 4800 feet, unreachable except by helicopter or by mountain climbers. No ground vehicle, four-wheel-drive or other, could have reached it. There was a hole approximately 20 meters in length, but the slide marks that Emil had spoken of seeing were gone. Photo copyright by Nikolay Subbotin =A9 and Russian UFO Research Station =A9, 1998. Used with permission. Nikolay describes the site thus(computerized translation): All stones were broken and smooth. The Earth seem very much freshen. It seemed that the slope was artificial. Probably, someone has cleaned traces of failure? Nikolay says that Emil Bachurin was shocked. He found some special labels left by the previous expedition, so he knew this was the place, but he could not understand the disappearance of the UFO. The only other thing of note to be seen in the area was an area that looked to be a rudely constructed helicopter landing pad. Their instruments could detect no magnetic anomalies in the area. Dejectedly, the expedition flew back to camp and left for home. Nikolay says that half of the expedition thought Emil Bachurin had lied to them about the previous expedition and about what he had seen. However, some corroboration of Emil's story appeared in the form of one Igor Vislobokov, who stated that, while in the military in 1991, he and two comrades saw a cigar-shaped object in the skies of the Tien-Shan area. Oddly, Nikolay says that when he got back to civilization, he found that the magnetic tape strip on all of his credit cards had been erased. However, the film and videotapes that he made were not harmed. What happened to the UFO? Nikolay believes that the military had come in and taken it out. He intends to continue his investigation, and hopefully, he will continue to report to us. On a final note, there is a story from one Nikolay Romanov that the Shaitan Mazar UFO was actually a module of the Russian block of the International Space Station that was lost four minutes after launch when the rocket carrying it into orbit malfunctioned and exploded. This module carried four nuclear power generators according to Romanov. Nikolay Subbotin argues that this cannot be true because work had not yet begun on the space station modules in 1991. --- In an infinite universe inifinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm Research page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ \_______________________________________________/ UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net A UFO & Related Phenomena E-Mail List operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - 416-691-0716 UFO UpDates Archives are available at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates 'Strange Days...Indeed' - available live via Real Audio 11:00pm EST, Sunday nights at: www.cfrb.com/cfrb.ram
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Chat with Lyn Buchanan From: Yvonne Hedenland <vonni_h@email.msn.com> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 04:44:36 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 11:14:04 -0500 Subject: Chat with Lyn Buchanan Remote Viewing and UFOs: More Noise or Signal? Lyn Buchanan, Remote Viewer & Teacher Join the UFO Community on MSN for a chat with Lyn Buchanan on November 10th at 6pm, PT. 15 years ago the US military splurged millions to examine the potential of psychic viewing - better known as Remote Viewing. Buchanan discusses where its connections to the UFO issue are found as well as the military's sudden disinterest. This chat is available at http://communities.msn.com/UFO The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com and the room or channel name is #briefing.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: Betty Hill Associated Pegasus SETI Signal? From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:46:52 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 11:19:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Betty Hill Associated Pegasus SETI Signal? I wrote: >From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 15:51:28 +0100 >Subject: Synchronicity: Betty Hill Associated Pegasus SETI Signal With >Her Abduction >A listener calling talk show host Laura Lee's 'EQ Pegasi' >special Saturday, November 7, drew attention to the visual >match-up by abductee Betty Hill of her 'star map' with a map of >the constellation Pegasus, as told in John G. Fuller's book, >"The Interrupted Journey," which deals with the abduction of >Betty and Barney Hill. But even more intriguing to the listener >and relevant to the recent EQ Pegasi controversy is the fact >that a SETI signal was associated with Betty Hill's >interpretation. >Robert Sheaffer writes: >"Betty Hill herself discovered an impressive resemblance in a >star map published in the New York Times. In 1965 a map of the >stars of the constellation Pegasus appeared in that newspaper, >accompanying the announcement by a Russian radio astronomer >(Comrade Sholomitsky) that radio source CTA-102, depicted in the >map, may be sending out intelligent radio signals. Intrigued by >this remarkable claim, Betty Hill studied the map, and added the >corresponding star names to her sketch. As you can see, the >Pegasus map -- while not exactly like the sketch -- is >impressively similar. If CTA-102 -- appearing near the 'globes' >in her sketch -- was in reality an artificial radio source, that >would give the Pegasus map much additional credibility. >However, the case for the artificial origin of quasar CTA- 102 >soon fell flat. Other scientists were unable to observe these >reported strange variations which had caused Sholomitsky to >suggest that CTA-102 might be pulsing intelligently." A short description of some of G. B. Sholomitsky's findings regarding CTA-102 is available in issue 83 of the Hungarian Konkoly Observatory's "Information Bulletin On Variable Stars", URL: http://www.konkoly.hu/pub/ibvs/0001/0083.txt When G. B. Sholomitsky wrote the item, he worked at the Sternberg Astronomical Institute in Moscow, but a Dr. Gennadii B. Sholomitsky (also spelled: Gennady Sholomitskii), now works at the Russian Space Research Institute, see http://www.rssi.ru/whois.html i.e. the same person, probably. His e-mail address is gsholomi@vm1.iki.rssi.ru and his WHOIS page at the institute can be found at http://www.rssi.ru/whois/gsholom.html where his address and telephone number is given. There his name is spelled 'Sholomitskii, Gennady'. Stig ******* COMMISSION 27 OF THE I. A. U. INFORMATION BULLETIN ON VARIABLE STARS NUMBER 83 Konkoly Observatory Budapest 2 February 1965 VARIABILITY OF THE RADIO SOURCE CTA-102 During the period from August 1964 to February 1965 measurements of the flux densities of CTA-21 and CTA-102 were made, at the wavelength 32.5 cm with the aid of a modulation radiometer, The flux densities of both sources have been determined relative to 3C-48. It should be noted, that according to recent spectral measurements the radio flux density of 3C-48 is constant within 3% [1]. In the figure the determined ratios of the flux densities CTA-21/3C-48 and CTA-102/3C-48, together with those obtained from previous measurements [2,3] have been plotted against time. One can see, that the ratio CTA-21/3C-48 remains constant within the errors of measurement, while the ratio CTA-102/3C-48 varies at least within 0.320-0.430; these limits are far in excess of the errors of measurement. The flux density of CTA-102 varies roughly according to a sinusoidal law with a period close to 100 days. Variations with shorter periods may be also present. The linear diameter of the source cannot exceed the value cT = 0.1 parsec - 2.10^4 a.u. Compared with the angular diameter of CTA-102, 8 = 0".01, obtained by the method presented in [4], an upper limit for its distance can be determined: R <= 2 megaparsec. This can be considered as the indication of the galactic origin of CTA-102. 1 Matthews, T. A., Sandage, A.R., Astrophys. J., 138, 30, 1963. 2 Harris, D. E., Roberts, J. A., Publ. Astron, Soc. Pacific, 72, 237, 1960. 3 Conway, R.G., Kelterman, K.I., Long, R.J., Mon. Not. Roy. Astron. Soc., 125, 261, 1962. 4 Slish, V. I., "Nature", 199, 628, 1963 G. B. SHOLOMITSKY Sternberg Astronomical Institute Moscow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 14:47:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 11:24:56 -0500 Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In >Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:00:09 -0600 (CST) >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? >Steven Kaeser observed: >>Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 06:45:36 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? >>Since the issue seems to revolve around the >>passenger/photographer it would seem that the solution would be >>to automate the photographic process somehow. My guess is that >>this strict enforcement of the law (or at least this >>interpretation of it) won't stop the determined crop circle >>photograph entrepenuers. >>This may be a rather large question to ask, but I'm curious as >>to the legal status of 'UltraLight' aircraft in Great Britian. >Another alternative would be the classic hot air balloon. >Offhand, those would seem to be ideal platforms for photographing >crop circles, as well as taking onlookers up for a better view. >Might actually be a good way to earn a few bucks, er, pounds. >-Brian Cuthbertson Steve, Brian, My concern wasn't the fact that no money will be made if they forbid these flights. I think we should be wondering why they are trying to prohibit those flights in the first place! And why are they going through an awfull lot of trouble to locate pilots on conferences? Ofcourse there still will be ways to obtain arial shots of crop circles but in my opinion that's not the point here... Best wishes, Andy Denne (A.U.R.A.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 98 11:53:38 PST Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:21:39 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:26:52 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road >>From: Karen Guetzow <kareng@xanadu2.net> >>Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:43:52 -0800 >>Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:54:36 -0500 >>Subject: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road >I'll bet the Air Force has more important things to do than >intimidate bicyclists on a well-travelled public highway who are >really UFOlogists in disguise (see pixs on website). >Give us a break! >Bob Young Amen. This sort of wallowing in mindless paranoia does us no good whatever. As anybody who has ever driven a public highway is well aware, there are plenty of jerks and creeps behind steering wheels. I'm glad that the bicycling ufologist did not suffer serious injury, but I think we can safely conclude that the Air Force has other. more productive uses for our tax dollars. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: Introduction From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 10:26:40 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:18:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Introduction >From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:17:08 -0200 >Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:22:41 -0500 >Subject: Introduction Previously, Thiago wrote: >Well everybody, I'm new on this list. My name is Thiago Luiz >Ticchetti, I'm from Brazil, member of the UFO Magazine Editorial >Council. I hope to learn a lot here with you guys, and teach you >some. My response: Be afraid, Thiago. Be very afraid.... No. Just joking. Welcome to the List! Roll up your sleeves and jump in at any time. Take care, Roger Evans,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:31:13 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 17:35:48 -0500 Subject: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:02:58 -0000 >Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 10:18:06 -0500 >Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo Previously, Tim offered: >>>The point is this; based upon a good deal of credible evidence >>>we can now say with a certain assurance that flying discs were >>>and are an example of earthly technology. <snip> >>>If there is any evidence for alien-human contact then at best it >>>is tenuous, anecdotal and entirely unproven. My response was: >>Gee, Tim. I don't know. Can't the same thing be said for the >>"discplane" craft you discribe above? I mean, without actual >>working examples, footage of them in action, or recovered (and >>verified) blueprints then the "discplanes" you speak of are just >>as elusive as any ET or UFO. Without proof, such discplane >>accounts would certainly fall under the "tenuous, anecdotal and >>entirely unproven" category you describe. >>As far as your position that "we can now say with a certain >>assurance that flying discs were and are an example of earthly >>technology"; I'm not convinced that explains all sightings. In >>addition, which came first? The alien disc shaped craft or the >>more Earthly emmulations inspired by visiting ETs? Tim asserts: >You are mistaken if you believe that there are no blueprints! >What do you think all these technical documents - the most >obvious example being the 'Silver Bug' - are? There are several >projects for which we have technical documents including AVRO >Projects 724, Project Y/Y2, WS606 A/B, the joke Avrocar, as well >as dozens of private patents for discplanes. Check out the US >Patent Server. I have no doubt blueprints exist. The question is one of performance. As you pointed out the Avrocar was a joke.... >As well as that we have various CIA and FBI documents alluding >to German LAR craft and have interviewed various people who >claim to have either seen or worked on these discplanes whilst >at classified military facilities. Have these documents been verified and, if so, by whom? Beyond that, why would the second hand accounts of your witnesses regarding disc-plane development be more valid than anyone else's second hand accounts regarding possible UFO's? >Furthermore it is not the case that we 'copied' "alien" discs >as there is an unbroken line of development of very low aspect >ratio aircraft going back to the end of WW1 and which was very >well documented in the AS Weyl article for "Aeroplane" magazine >back in 1948 - another bit of evidence so conveniently ignored >by the UFO buffs. <snip> >The US Navy had their V-173, performing very well (beyond all >expectations) during the Second World War and ONLY now that our >research points to the wartime development of discs do these new >inventions about prewar UFO crash landings start to emerge again >- having been forgotten and ignored by the Roswell retrieval >school of 'thinking'. Again, I'm not suggesting that attempted terrestrial development of disc craft didn't take place. Nor am I suggesting that people didn't witness such attempts. But considering the advanced performance characteristics noted by many UFO witnesses, the following logic comes into play: 1) If the objects seen by UFO witnesses are, as you suggest, the results of disc-plane research, then do the known and viewable blueprints technically back up such devices' super high performance characteristics? 2) If the answer to question 1 is "no" or "undetermined due to lack of documentation" then the connection to UFO sightings is "tenuous, anecdotal and entirely unproven" to use your words. To put it simply, there is definite proof that we know how to build these things or not. 3) On the other hand, if the advanced performance characteristics of UFOs has been unfairly blown out of proportion (making a connection to the reality of terrestrial disc-plane technology problematic) then the pivoting factor would seem to be in the very nature of second hand testimony; i.e. witnesses sometimes "enhance" their stories. Of course, this would apply to all second hand testimony, including that regarding discplane research and development. >If you want some technical type documents I'll send you them. >Same goes for all the other doubters out there. You offered to send me technical material in an earlier posting. For the record, I'm still waiting. Beyond that, "technical type documents" are useless unless they reflect a technology capable of producing the results known to be associated with UFO sightings. A blueprint showing a saucer shaped craft means nothing unless that craft can deliver beyond terrestrial limitations. Am I a doubter? If you say so. I prefer to think of myself as someone that simply asks questions that are concise and to the point. If that's the definition of a doubter, then we certainly need all the doubters we can get. Take care,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3, Number 45 From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 20:35:21 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 17:46:45 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3, Number 45 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3, Number 45 November 9, 1998 Editor: Joseph Trainor CHINESE JET FIGHTER PURSUES A UFO On Monday, October 19, 1998, four military radar stations in Hebei province, China, reported the presence of an unidentified blip hovering above a military flight training school in Changzhou. Once authorities determined that the intruder was not a military or civilian flight, Colonel Li, the base commander, ordered a Jianjiao 6 jet fighter to take off and intercept the UFO. "At least 140 people on the ground saw the object." "To observers at the base, the UFO first appeared to be 'a small star' and then grew larger and larger, perhaps as it descended to a lower altitude, the report said." "They described an object with a mushroom-shaped dome on top and a flat bottom covered with bright, continually-rotating lights." The crew of the Jianjiao 6 interceptor consisted of a pilot and a radar officer. The two officers said "the object clearly resembled depictions they had seen in foreign science fiction films...When they got within 4,000 meters (13,200 feet) of the UFO over Qing county, it abruptly shot upward, easily evading subsequent attempts to get closer." "It appeared to be toying with the fighter by repeatedly outdistancing it and then reappearing right above it, the report said." The pilot requested permission to fire on the UFO with the plane's automatic 20mm cannon. He was denied permission to shoot by ground control and was told to continue to pursue and observe the object. The pilot broke off pursuit at an altitude of 12,000 meters (39,600 feet) when the jet began running low on fuel. "The UFO then disappeared before two more modern (Chinese fighter) planes could arrive in the area." Changzhou is 150 kilometers (90 miles) northwest of Shanghai. (See the Hong Kong Standard for November 4, 1998. The story apparently first ran in the Hebei Daily around October 22 and was picked up by the Chinese weekly newsmagazine Baokhan Wenzhai. Many thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp and Andy Denne of A.U.R.A. for forwarding the article.) ISRAELIS VIDEOTAPE A TRIANGULAR UFO NEAR TEL AVIV On Friday, October 9, 1998, electrical engineer Adrian Dvir met with his group of five "alien healers" at his home in Rishon Letzion, a city approximately 24 kilometers (15 miles) southwest of Tel Aviv. Dvir and his colleagues claim that they were given mysterious "healing powers" by aliens from space. Midway through the meeting, one of the members spotted a UFO moving through the sky. Dvir grabbed his camcorder and began shooting. "The finest moment of the film is a closeup of the craft revealing three beautiful balls--one orange, the others silver and white in a perfect triangular formation. This is one of the finest UFO films ever taken in Israel," said author/researcher Barry Chamish. One week later, on Friday, October 16, Avishai Granot, a computer graphics artist, "spotted two triangular craft which flew over the eastern section of Rishon Letzion." Granot said, "This UFO came from the north at lightning speed, hovered over the city for about a minute, and disappeared in a flash, making a suction sound as it went." A 20-year-veteran of the Zahal (Israeli Defense Forces--J.T.), Granot said, "I know every craft and weapon we've got and it wasn't one of them." On Thursday, November 5, 1998, Barry Chamish and ufologist Gil Bar visited Rishon Letzion and interviewed the two men. They also viewed the videos shot by Dvir. "When he (Granot) saw Dvir's film, he immediately identified the craft on the screen as the one he had seen." Like Gulf Breeze, Florida or Crestone, Colorado, Rishon Letzion is a notorious UFO hotspot, Chamish said. One year ago, in November 1997, "Gil Bar, 16, filmed an Israeli F-15 chasing a UFO over Rishon Letzion in broad daylight." (Many thanks to Barry Chamish, author of WHO MURDERED YITZHAK RABIN?, for giving UFO Roundup permission to quote from his news story.) MYSTERIES FLOURISH IN EQ PEGASI CONTACT CASE The EQ Pegasi case exploded into a flurry of charges and counter-charges last week. On October 23, 1998, a man calling himself "Paul Dore" posted GIFs on the Internet which purported to show a strong alien radio signal emanating from the EQ Pegasi star system, 22 light years (132,000,000,000,000 miles) from Earth. Dr. H. Paul Shuch of the SETI League and Dr. Nathan Cohen of Boston University branded the material a hoax. On Monday, November 2, John Doe, alias "Paul Dore," hit back at his critics. "This is assuredly not a hoax," he said, explaining that the similarity of signals was caused by his own hasty error in posting. "I was so excited I got onto the Internet on a CLOSED list." Doe added that "two astronomers at the Effelsberg Radio Observatory" in Germany had confirmed the "hit" and announced that the three of them would appear at a news conference on Wednesday "to announce the discovery of repeating artificial signals from space." On Friday, October 30, 1998, K.H. Benton, a radio operator living in Castel, on the Isle of Guernsey, claimed that he, too, had picked up a signal from EQ Pegasi. "I am an amateur radio operator on the Isle of Guernsey (UK) offshore from Normandy," Benton reported. "When I saw the story of the possible SETI discovery on the BBC, I undertook to see if I could pick the signals up." Benton used his 4.5 meter dish to scan the 23 centimeter band (1296 Mhz to 1450 Mhz) plus an ICOM 8500 receiver and a SETIFOX program up and running on his processor. "At 12:30 UTC, about the time EQ Pegasi rose in the sky, the program began logging what looked like a faint carrier signal," Benton reported. "If this is a signal from another star, it is incredibly strong. This would have to be beamed directly at us as far as I can tell." Researchers seeking confirmation tried to log onto the website operated by the Billion-channel Extra-Terrestrial Array (BETA project) in Harvard, Masschusetts, 25 miles (40 kilometers) west of Boston. They complained that they could not access the BETA site. On Monday, November 2, the Max Planck Institut fur Radioastronomie in Bonn, operators of the Effelsberg Radio Observatory, denied that their astronomers were using the observatory's 100-meter radio telescope to scan EQ Pegasi. Institute spokesman Dr. Rolf Schwartz said, "The story circulating that the MFIfR is involved in observations to confirm a SETI signal is wrong. The MFIfR is not involved in any SETI project." Unaware of this, Doe posted a new message, saying, "At noon, I received a call from the two astronomers stating that they would not be with me at the press conference and that I was 'essentially on my own.' 'Fine, then,' I replied, and then apologized and hung up." "Next, my supervisor rang me up to tell me that I was to cease my experiment immediately," he added, "This was quite strange because he had been supportive ever since the news broke." Arriving home at 7 p.m., he claimed to have found "three gentlemen in my residence. My wife Helen had the look of sheer terror in her eyes. It turns out one of them was from the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) at Cheltenham, and the other was from RAF Feltwell, and the third from the American National Security Agency (NSA) They asked if we could speak in private." "Over the course of nearly two hours they explained to me that what I had discovered was not extraterrestrial in nature but was" in actuality an intelligence-gathering satellite "with something known as Project 415." Doe claimed that the men compelled him "to sign a security oath...which stated that should I further describe any details on this subject I will be subect to prosecution under the terms of the Official Secrets Act." No sooner had this statement appeared than the real Paul Dore emerged, claiming that Doe had "stolen my resume from my website" which "had been inactive for the past two and a half years." According to the Boston Globe, "The perpetrator made most of his claims anonymously but then was tentatively identified by SETI researchers as an engineer named Paul Dore; an anonymous resume he had posted was identified as Dore's through an on-line search." Dr. Shuch said that "he had just heard from the real Paul Dore and is now convinced that he is not the perpetrator. Apparently, whoever was playing the hoax had simply used and altered Dore's resume." "He's a decent guy, and he has nothing to do with this," Dr. Shuch said. "'It has all the earmarks of a hoax,' said Darren Leigh, a radio astronomer who operates one of the largest such search efforts in the world today, the BETA project...Nevertheless, Leigh said, the 84-foot dish of the Oak Ridge Observatory's BETA telescope was trained on the region of the sky where the signal had been claimed, just to be sure. And there's nothing there." The Wednesday press conference was abruptly cancelled. On Wednesay, November 4, people trying to access the EQ Pegasi website "found a National Security Agency logo" filling the screen. Peter A. Gersten of Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS) telephoned NSA headquarters at Fort Meade, Maryland and spoke to Vanessa Taliery of the agency's public relations department. Gersten reported that Taliery had told him that "anyone can download the NSA seal and emblem and place them on a site." He said Taliery "seemed unaware of the story" that was burning up the Internet. Speculation about the EQ Pegasi signal continues to spur a fiery debate. (See the Boston Globe for November 4, 1998, "Earthlings say: Not so fast," page A-10) HOVERING UFOs SPOTTED IN WESTERN NORWAY On Tuesday, November 3, 1998, at 4 a.m., witnesses in Vaksdal, near Bergen, Norway, "reported an object in the eastern part of the sky. It was stationary for about an hour, with flashing lights green on the top and red on the bottom." Vaksdal is about 280 kilometers (175 miles) west of Oslo, the national capital. The same morning, between 3 a.m. and 5 a.m., a few residents of Stavanger, a seaport on the North Sea about 240 kilometers (150 miles) southwest of Oslo, reported seeing "a meteorite with a blue tail" over the eastern section of the port city. (Many thanks to Asgeir W. Skavhaug for this news story.) SEVEN LUMINOUS DISCS SEEN IN GRAFTON, N.S.W. On Thursday, October 22, 1998, at 11:22 p.m., seven luminous discs flying in a V formation were seen in Grafton, New South Wales, Australia, about 400 kilometers (250 miles) southwest of Sydney. "This formation was huge," reported local ufologist Barry Taylor. "At 20 centimeters (8 inches) at arm's length, the formation must have been about 25 to 30 meters (83 to 100 feet) in length, and each disc was about three meters (10 feet) altogether. I only observed them for four seconds as they flew over. Missed catching them on video by two seconds." "The seven red illuminations were covered by a white haze," he added, "This haze blended with the haze of the next illumination (following) They were close together and 'held in position.' The light from each disc was intriguing to see. A soft, smooth, creamy yellowish-white appearance that looked to have depth." (Many thanks to Barry Taylor for this report.) MYSTERY METEOR LIGHTS UP THE CITY OF WINNIPEG On Monday, November 2, 1998, at 8:15 p.m., ufologist/researcher Christopher A. Rutkowski "had two calls and heard of three other reports of a bright bolide-like object...Most witnesses were in the eastern end of Winnipeg and Transcona," in Manitoba province, Canada. The witnesses "reported seeing a 'silver-red' ball in the southeast, heading west. It had a 'long bright tail' behind it, but no sparks." "Have two witnesses insist the object 'stopped' in mid-flight, remained stationary and then moved away." (Many thanks to Chris Rutkowski for this news story.) ALIENS, WEIRD ANIMAL REPORTED IN COLORADO On Friday, October 30, 1998, a woman living at the new Baca Grande housing development near Alamosa, Colorado, looked out the window and spotted small aliens running across the yard. "The resident reported small objects hitting her house," author/researcher Christopher O'Brien reported, explaining that the house "is out on the (San Luis) Valley and has no tall trees within a quarter mile." The woman described the intruders as "small hooded figures about four feet tall (1.2 meters)." She also claimed to have seen "a hairy pig" running past the house, a sighting O'Brien said "Sounds more like a Prairie Dragon sighting." The next day, Saturday, October 31, 1998, "the woman also observed a fast-moving oval- shaped object enter through her back door and slowly headed up the hallway towards her. She described the anomaly as being 'milky- looking with a reflective band around the rim. The band appeared to be like chrome. The witness was so startled that she stopped looking at the object, which apparently then disappeared. She estimated, at its nearest, it was ten feet (3 meters) away from her as it came down the hallway." (Many thanks to Christopher O'Brien, author of THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY, for this news story.) (Editor's Comment: If there's an award for Strangest Halloween Visitor, this floating Baca Grande anomaly is a cinch to win.) UFO FLAP ENTERS THIRD WEEK IN MONTANA Since Friday, October 16, 1998, residents of Polson (population 6,000) and Ronan (population 2,500), two towns on Highway 93 in western Montana have been puzzled by the nightly appearance of a red UFO over the Mission Mountains, just east of town. The large UFO is seen every night between 2 a.m. and 5 a.m., hovering about 9,000 feet above the mountain range. "The UFO is reported to be quite large with one continuous red light, a flickering (not blinking) green light and a flickering blue glow which appears under the craft." None of the witnesses have been able to identify the shape of the craft. On Friday, October 30, 1998, Scott Johnson, foreman of a large manufacturing facility two miles south of Ronan, "brought his entire night shift outside for a look to observe the craft during break." Johnson reportedly said, "This is not a vehicle of human origin. Its balance, its ability to hover as it does, its soundless(ness)...all make for something that does not match our standard of human air vehicles." The same night, witnesses near Polson, nine miles to the north, "there were two UFOs at roughly the same altitude about 9 miles apart." (Many thanks to Robert A.M. Stephens for forwarding this news story.) (Editor's Note: Polson, Montana is at the south end of Flathead Lake and is best known as the "home port" of the Flathead Lake Monster, a.k.a. Flathead Lake Nessie. The creature was seen dozens of times during the summers of 1993 and 1996. See the Lake County Leader of Polson, Montana for October 23, 1996) MAN AND MOTHER SEE A UFO IN KETTERING, OHIO On Monday, October 26, 1998, at 7:30 p.m., a man and his elderly mother spotted a UFO over Kettering, Ohio (population 60,659), a city southeast of the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. "It was just 7:30 p.m., and I had just finished my dinner and went outside for a cigarette," the witness reported, "I was on the porch looking north. I decided to walk around the yard, and I looked up at the stars and saw a large, bright disc moving slowly across the sky. I watched it for a second and called my mom out. By the time she got there, it was flying south extremely fast, faster than any airplane I know of...The object just took off, extremely fast." (Many thanks to Kenneth Young of Tri-States Advocates for Scientific Knowledge, T.A.S.K., for forwarding this report.) RADIO SHOW TRIGGERS PANIC IN PORTUGAL On Friday, October 30, 1998, radio station Antena 3, a subsidiary of Radio Nacionao Portugueses (RNP) in Lisbon, decided to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the Orson Welles radio drama, War of the Worlds, by broadcasting it during the morning show. The original Welles script was used and was translated into Portuguese. Instead of having the Martians touch down in Grover's Mill, New Jersey, Antena 3 had the aliens land in Palmela, a town 35 kilometers (21 miles) south of Lisbon. The station issued a warning at 7 a.m., announcing their intention to broadcast the radio play. But when the play began an hour later at 8 a.m., panic erupted. The station "broadcasted the landing of a UFO at Palmela" and "the bulletins said that the Martians had set off in the direction of the capital (Lisbon) and that military forces sent to stop them had proved powerless." "The program's producer said the radio station was inundated with calls from hundreds of panicking people demanding to know what was going on." The 7 a.m. warning proved worthless "because not everyone is listening to the radio that early." Some callers said they had fled their workplaces. Others with health problems complained that "the health had deteriorated on news of the Martian invasion." "One of the organizers of the broadcast said, 'One hundred years after the invention of the radio, there are still people who will believe anything." (Merci beaucoup a Robert Fischer pour l'histoire de l'Agence France Presse.) BALDIM CAVE SEARCH ENDS IN FIASCO Efforts to search a cave in Brazil's Serra do Espinhaco mountains for a Chupacabra have ended for the time being. The cave, located on a mountaintop near Baldim, Minas Gerais, a small city on the Rio das Velhas 110 kilometers (66 miles) north of Belo Horizonte, was the site of the reported encounter between three spelunkers and a "weird animal, the size of a large dog." Having made a tentative descent into the cave earlier in October, ufologist Vittorio Paccacini, author of INCIDENTE EM VARGINHA, returned to the cave on Saturday, October 17, 1998. But his planned party of ten explorers was not willing to make the descent. "When I got there, I found that this group was not ready to go," Paccacini reported, "No adequate equipment (helmets, lights, etc.) Most of the people there didn't feel comfortable with the idea of returning to the halls of that cave." So the cave expedition was canceled. Three days earlier, Pacaccini had met with his lawyer, who, he said, "alerted me to the complications/responsibilities I'd have if somebody got hurt on this expedition." In addition to possible legal liabilities, Paccacini reported that he was contacted by Manuel Uchoa and the other two spelunkers who reportedly saw the cave creature. "They didn't like the fact that the pictures had already circulated in many UFO webpages and in many Internet UFO news services, as well." "I'll have to wait a little longer to see what can be done, to be sure about the picture," Paccacini added. "I also know where to find it (the cave), of course, but I can only do something in accordance with the witnesses...For me, unfortunately, I'll have to hold my horses. Needless to tell how frustrating this is." (Muito obrigado a Vittorio Paccacini por eso caso.) from the UFO Files... 1940: LAST CRUISE OF THE WILLIAM B. DAVOCK Of all the stories associated with the Lake Michigan Triangle, the case of the oreboat William B. Davock is certainly one of the strangest. On November 7, 1940, the Davock sailed out of Erie, Pennsylvania, westbound for Chicago with a load of coal. The ship had a crew of 31 aboard, with a surprising number of the men hailing from Ashtabula, Ohio, another port on Lake Erie. The Davock had a routine trip to Detroit, then headed north across Lake Huron and sailed through the Straits of Mackinac into Lake Michigan. At 12 noon on November 10, 1940, the Davock was seen entering Lake Michigan by observers onshore at Mackinac City, Mich. At 12:15 p.m., her skipper, Captain Charles W. Allen, sent out a routine radio message. That was the Davock's last contact with the outside world. Shore radio stations attempting to contact her during that afternoon and evening reached nothing but static. The following afternoon, November 11, 1940, Lake Michigan was swept by a ferocious blizzard. This "Armistice Day storm" killed hundreds of people in the USA's Midwest, and a few ships foundered on the Great Lakes. By the time the blizzard began, the Davock should have been safe in her berth in South Chicago. But there had been no word from the vessel for 24 hours. Then the bodies began washing ashore. "From a point a mile or two above Pentwater to the beach north of Ludington, they wandered in amidst a clutter of life rings, broken lifeboats, oars, cabin doors, fragments of furniture... young deckhands James Saunders and his buddy Sterling Wood, second mate John Wiesen, first mate Charles Price, wheelmen Andy Stiffler and Walter Kiewece, and watchmen James Bowman, Lawrence Bleshoy and Martin Chambers." "Walking for miles, they (searchers) found both of the Davock's lifeboats, one damaged, the other intact but full of water. Tarpaulins, parts of what had once been an icebox, a section of the captain's desk" and Capt. Allen's prize possession, his brand-new wicker chair. The dead men of the Davock were laid to rest at Ludington's Lakeview Cemetery. The Coast Guard assumed that the Davock and another steamer, the Anna C. Minch, had been thrown together by the mountainous seas of the blizzard. They theorized that the Davock had cleaved the Minch's hull in half and had then limped away, to sink elsewhere on Lake Michigan. But then, in May 1972, divers discovered "the Davock's hull, upside down in 304 feet of water, off Little Sable Point" near Ludington. Working from a former fishing tug equipped with sonar and other sophisticated gear, divers Kent Bellrichard, John Steele and William Cohen explored the hull briefly but could find no evidence of collision...The divers found the Davock's rudder cramped hard to port, as though she too were trying to fighter her way out of a valley between monstrous seas." Or perhaps trying to get away from something. The mystery persists. Where was the Davock during the twenty-four hours prior to the arrival of the Armistice Day storm? Why didn't Capt. Allen erect an emergency radio mast? Or simply send a gig ashore to Ludington? What was the vessel doing just off Little Sable Point, east of its intended route to Chicago? Ludington, of course, has long been rumored to be the nexus of the Lake Michigan Triangle. The Davock is just one of the many large ships that have sunk under mysterious circumstances within earshot of Ludington's automated lighthouse. (See STRANGE ADVENTURES OF THE GREAT LAKES by Dwight Boyer, Freshwater Press Inc., Cleveland, Ohio, 1974, pages 100 to 104, and THE GREAT LAKES TRIANGLE by Jay Gourley, Fawcett Crest Books, Greenwich, Conn., 1977, page 86.) FUN UFO WEBSITES: The video of the three Cleveland UFOs is now a Quicktime movie, Rev. John Tenney of Michigan Anumalous Information Network informs me. You need 5 megabytes to view it. See the movie at http://members.tripod.com/~main.org Ignatius Graffeo managed to download much of the material on the EQ Pegasi website before it was replaced with the NSA seal. He invites people to view it at his mirror site at this URL: http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/Cape CanaveralHall7193/ Malaysian UFO Network now has its own site. Check them out at http://www.malayians.com/ myufonet Don't miss our parent site, UFO INFO, with its wide array of saucer source material. Drop in at http://ufoinfo.com Back issues of UFO Roundup can be accessed, read and downloaded at our webpage. Feel free to browse anytime at this URL: http://ufoinfo.com/roundup Some week, eh? We'll be back in seven days with the latest in saucer news from around the globe, plus continuing coverage of the growing EQ Pegasi contact controversy, brought to you as always by "the paper that goes home-- UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Inquiry From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 06:53:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 17:32:40 -0500 Subject: Inquiry Dear colleagues, I wonder can you help. Does anyone have any information of a UFO sighting allegedly made by an assistant to H.R.H. Prince Phillip. Also, I've been asked to check if the former Labour minister Dennis Healey as to whether or not he had any knowledge of an official UFO investigation in the UK while he was oin office. If anyone can help please e-mail me direct at: el51@dial.pipex.com Many thanks, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Help For A Friend From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 10:15:08 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 17:41:16 -0500 Subject: Help For A Friend Dear colleagues, A friend here is desperately trying to get a book published without much success. They have given up trying publishers in the UK and the USA so have instead decided to try other parts of the world. I would therefore respectfully like to ask for any recommendations for UFO book publishers in any country outside of the USA and the UK. If you could supply any such publishers direct to me at: el51@dial.pipex.com I would be extremely grateful. Yours Sincerely,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:46:05 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 17:38:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third >From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:42:19 +0100 >Subject: Devil's Tower ("Close Encounters Of The Third Kind") >[List only] >Stig >******* <snip> If I am not mistaken, the seven sisters became the seven stars in the constellation Pleiades, not the Big Dipper. REgards, Mike If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 9 Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:36:43 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 17:43:22 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road >Date: Mon, 09 Nov 98 11:53:38 PST >Amen. >This sort of wallowing in mindless paranoia does us no good >whatever. As anybody who has ever driven a public highway is >well aware, there are plenty of jerks and creeps behind steering >wheels. >I'm glad that the bicycling ufologist did not suffer serious >injury, but I think we can safely conclude that the Air Force >has other. more productive uses for our tax dollars. >Jerry Clark Jerry, Much agreed. Which raises the question: If running hapless bicycling ufologists off public roads isn't figured into the Air Force UFO cover up budget, what current, on-going AF activities are?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 10 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:23:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:21:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 22:05:35 -0800 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Project SIGN Research Release >In an earlier posting I mentioned the 1948 Project SIGN >Top Secret Estimate of the Situation (EToS). >http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/nov/m03-004.shtml> >Since then, Wendy Connors, Project SIGN Research Center, has >agreed to release summaries of her research. (See Below.) <snip> >The "secret aircraft advocates" are barking up the wrong tree. I>t is possible, however, that Wright Field and even the >Directorate of Intelligence (formerly ACS/Intel) were left out >of the loop on such developments involving nuclear weapons. >Cabell mentioned the lack of personnel with "Q" clearances at >the establishment of the Air Force. Penetration bombers were >being developed. One of the penetration devices for an attack >on the Soviet Union was "parasite planes." Also, other >developments such as decoys and Electronic Counter Measures >(ECM) devices were also under testing. While the >T-2/Intelligence Division/ATIC had liaison officers at the >Atomic Energy Commission, the above projects were definitely Q >clearance territory. So McCoy and the others might not have >been read in on this research. I would expect, however, that >the nuclear project officers would eventually let ATIC in on any >such projects. However, there would still seem to be a good >area of investigations for disc plane advocates. Nuclear Projects: In the FBI file there is a summary of a January 1949 interview with Col. Gasser, the Air Force officer Resident in Charge of the Nuclear Energy for Propulsion of Aircraft (NEPA) Project which was attempting to creat a nuclear powered aircraft. Gasser was stationed at Ok Ridge, Tennessee, where a nuclear isotope separation facility had been built, Oak Ridge was one of several Top Secret installations (along with the more famous Los Alamos) which had been constructed during WWII to carry out nuclear research ad isotope separation for creation of bomb grade material. Gasser told the FBI that the existence of flying saucer sightings had given an impetus to project NEPA. He also said that, althouh he was not privy to all information,he believed that they had the best information at Wright Field (location of Loedding) and that, this included, he believed, gun camera film. He gave the FBI no indication that he was aware of atomic powered aircraft of any form which actually flew. Recall that Twining's Sept. 23, 1947 letter recommended that NEPA, among others groups,be kept informed of the flying saucer situation. The point is that at leas on guy with a high level clearance (I assume a "Q" clearance of some sort) working on the atomic powered aircraft project was not aware of any atomic powered flying saucers. Incidently, Gasser believed saucers were real and he also told the FBI that it was his impression that the Air Force thought they were from the Soviet Union. The Gasser interview and its context an the FBI (Hoover) reaction (combined with the fireball sightings) are all described in my 'FBI/UFO Connection' manuscript. Contact me if
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 10 Re: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third From: Bob Foster <rlfost@campusnet.org> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:18:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:23:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third >Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:46:05 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third >Kind' >>From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:42:19 +0100 >>Subject: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third Kind' >>[List only] >>Stig >>******* ><snip> >If I am not mistaken, the seven sisters became the seven stars >in the constellation Pleiades, not the Big Dipper.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 10 MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 20:06:53 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:56:34 -0500 Subject: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' Recently, the Muroc Air Base sightings of 8 July 1947 have figured into the "disc plane" theory. http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/muroc47.htm It is alleged that the Muroc sightings were either the "Flying Flap Jack," XF5U-1, or a jet powered advanced development of a similar aircraft. No proof which can be independently checked is offered. Aviation historians stated that the XF5U-1 only underwent limited tests and did not flying any extensive course in 1947. In 1947 it was reported in the newspapers that the "Flying Flap Jack" had supposed superior flight characteristics if exploited. There is no evidence that it was further exploited! If the "disc plane" advocates believe it was, they simple have to produce records of such tests and serial numbers and official records of such aircraft. Reviewing the Muroc documents on the Project 1947 website it seems doubtful that: 1. The Muroc Air Base commander would not know that such an aircraft was being tested on his base. It is also doubtful that he would not pass this information, even in an oblique way, to his A-2 during the flying disc investigation. It is also unlikely that such information would be withheld from the 4th Air Force A-2 who had ordered the original investigation. 2. It is rather unlikely that Muroc's A-2 would be ignorant of such a development at the time. 3. It is extremely unlikely that Loedding and McCoy would be unaware of such developments. McCoy and Clingerman had just signed off on an extensive survey of the latest aviation developments worldwide. Charles Zimmerman worked at Wright-Patterson AFB. He regularly discussed UFO developments with Capt. Edward Ruppelt. It is improbable that he would not mention the improved XFU5-1 to Ruppelt who in January 1952 was granted a Top Secret clearance and would certainly have a need to know. On other related matters, "Air Intelligence Report No. 100-203-79, ANALYSIS OF FLYING OBJECT INCIDENTS IN THE U. S., Air Intelligence Division Study No. 203, 10 December 1948, USAF Directorate of Intelligence and Office of Naval Intelligence" was declassified in 1984 and has been available to researchers since that time. http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/1948air.htm The declassification "slug" that appears on my copy reflects a recent date only because each document in the National Archives is no longer individually declassified. A "slug" is prepared when declassified documents are presented to the archive's personnel which reflects the declassification authority and the current date--not necessarily the declassification date. The slug is placed on the copier along with the annotation that the material was copied at the National Archives when documents are reproduced. The idea reported several places that this is a newly declassified document is false. The "Analysis" does not prove that the XF5U-1 flew. The reference to the aircraft being operational is misleading. Concerning the transportation of German scientists, engineers, and military men to the United States to work on various scientific and military projects under Paperclip and other related projects, these facts were well known early on. Werner Von Braun appeared on Disney's television programs about space travel as early as 1955. Numerous books on rocketry reported the effort of the German scientists working in the United States. Newspapers in the 1940s reported that German scientists were moved to the United States for research purposes. The German populous was also well aware of this development. The idea that this was some sort of a deep dark secret is not borne out by public sources. At Dayton, the Germans engaged in Oktober Fest activities early on in their new home. Once again, I would like to point out that all post war aviation developments and histories are not complete. There is still plenty of research opportunities here. There are also corrections to make to the record. In the 1947 Preliminary Report is a newspaper story concerning the flight of a rocket plane in the Northwest. However, several aviation authorities have asserted that no such flights took place in the NW US during mid-1947. -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 10 Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In From: RobIrving <RobIrving@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:38:05 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:01:11 -0500 Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In >Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 14:47:42 +0100 >From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? Andy mused: >And why are they going through an awfull lot of trouble to >locate pilots on conferences? Sounds good, doesn't it? A quasi-governmental authority gunning for crop circles researchers. As if MI5 and Army helicopters isn't enough, now we have CAA spies. My advice: Consider the source. It's highly likely the CAA are not going to any such trouble. I heard this story in the summer and it appeared to be coming from a disgruntled, once-popular pilot who openly resented his loss of monopoly in what has now become a (relatively) lucrative business. It doesn't take much - in this case, a single complaint to the CAA - to get Andrews spinning tales re. suppression of 'research'. Rob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 10 Linda Mutant Howl: EQ Pegasi Declared a Richard From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:52:58 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:07:20 -0500 Subject: Linda Mutant Howl: EQ Pegasi Declared a Richard This just in from Dejanews Pegasi News Group: EQ Pegasi Officially Declared a Hoax Author: FChrisBro Email: fchrisbro@aol.comspamsux Date: 1998/11/09 Forums: alt.fan.art-bell Linda Mutant-Howl, in her weekly 'Dreamland' report, has just put the final nail into the coffin of the EQ Pegasi hoax. She reported that over 40 amateur astronomers, as well as professionals in Australia and at Harvard, have tried and failed to find any extraterrestrial signal; she stated that the person who made the original fraudulent report was impersonating the real Paul Dore, using an outated profile from an old website. Art's reaction? "I think we should find this person, track them down, and torture them." He seems to now agree that the whole thing was fake. The clumsiness of this scam, in my opinion, has Richard Hoaxland written all over it. I don't really know whether Art initially co-operated and got worried about a repeat of the Hale-Bopp tragedy, or whether he was so gullible that he was taken in. At any rate, Hoaxland's next appearance should be interesting. Sir Dave, BsD Knight of the Wicked Bell Quote Destroying Angel of Art's Credibility Deputy Skep-Ti-Cultist (provisional) MSTie #90121 La Porte, Tx As Seen on Usenet "I think Marianne and I will probably take six months off and go collect dinosaurs or something." --Newt Gingrich, 11-6-98 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Newly Updated EQ Pegasi Mirror Site: http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/latest.html Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 10 Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:14:43 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:09:21 -0500 Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In >Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:00:09 -0600 (CST) >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? >Another alternative would be the classic hot air balloon. >Offhand, those would seem to be ideal platforms for photographing >crop circles, as well as taking onlookers up for a better view. >Might actually be a good way to earn a few bucks, er, pounds. >-Brian Cuthbertson Yes Brian, but....If you don't happen to fly directly over a crop circle, it's really tough to get those balloons to turn around! :-)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 10 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 22:28:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:15:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 22:05:35 -0800 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Project SIGN Research Release >In an earlier posting I mentioned the 1948 Project SIGN >Top Secret Estimate of the Situation (EToS). >http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/nov/m03-004.shtml >Since then, Wendy Connors, Project SIGN Research Center, has >agreed to release summaries of her research. (See Below.) >Alfred C. Loedding was the author of the EToS. On what basis do you make this claim? What research or documentation is there to substantiate this? Hopefully it is not also the unsubstantiated claim of Wendy Conners listed down below in this post. It is interesting that you have asserted this without so far providing information to back this up as it is a point of some controversy as you well know. Dr. Micheal Swords Has made the point in IUR Spring 1997 The McCoy Letter pp. 16 that Captain Robert Sneider chief of Project Sign was its probable author as it was he who was defending the Estimate of the Situation at the National Bureau of Standard meeting on November 12, 1948. By the way was Dr. Edward Condon, then the Director of the National Bureau of Standards present at this meeting? Were any of the earlier National Bureau of Standards investigators of foo fighters present? Any documentation or evidence that you can provide demonstrating that Loedding was the author, sole author, as asserted would be appreciated, otherwise it can be considered only an assertion. Please make this evidence available to updates readers. >He was an expert >in "low aspect ratio aircraft." In a 1947 document he is >referred to as "the engineer in charge of investigation of >unidentified flying objects." (Please note the term was used in >both early US and Canadian documents.) In Loedding's own resume >he refers to himself as the "Initiator of Project SIGN." He was >of German descent, spoke German fluently, and regularly had >German scientists at Wright Field to his home for dinner. >What is needed here is less theorizing and more research. Yes I agree and what is also needed is more evidence, documentation and less assertions of solutions to historical controversies that are not publicly substantiated. >-- >Jan Aldrich >-----Original Message----- >From: Wendy Connors <ProjectSign@email.msn.com> >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSER.AOL.COM <PROJECT-1947@LISTSER.AOL.COM> >Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 4:34 PM >Subject: Research Data Release >Greetings to the LIST and fellow researchers: <snip> >OK, here is some new stuff for all of you to hopefully enjoy. >1. The Estimate of the Situation was, in fact, written by Alfred >C. Loedding. <snip> >4. My research partner, Michael David Hall and I have knowledge >of who actually fired many of the members of the Project SIGN >team. This is an ongoing effort and we will not release any more >details regarding this matter at this time. Any reason why this information can't be released? When and how you will be able to release this? Will this be in your book, article or chat mentioned below? >7. Project SIGN was a parallel investigation in conjunction with >investigations being conducted both at AFOIN and the ONI/ONR. >9. Many FOIA requests have been made to attempt to obtain new >documentation regarding the Estimate of the Situation. >10. Mike Hall and myself have recently completed a general >interest book on Alfred Loedding and the 1947 UFO Wave. It will >be available late next month or early January. It is titled, >"Alfred Loedding and the Great Flying Saucer Wave of 1947." We >will take advanced orders. Price has not been set. There is much >new information regarding early 1947 sightings in the book. >11. Final draft copies of my book are now located at the Fund >for UFO Research and the Dr. J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO >Studies. No date or publisher has been set for its release. It >is tentatively titled: "Anatomy of a Project: Project SIGN. An >Illustrative History of the First Secret Investigation of UFOs >by the USAF." >12. An International UFO Reporter article detailing Michael Hall >and my work on Loedding is tentatively scheduled for release >early next year. >13. I have been invited and accepted a guest shot on the MSN UFO >Forum Chat for November 27th. >Wendy Connors >Project SIGN Research Center >InterLink Site Directory >http://www.evansville.net/~slk/InterLink.html Excellent web site, thanks for the hard work. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 10 Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 23:00:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:20:26 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road >Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:36:43 -0600 (CST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road >>Date: Mon, 09 Nov 98 11:53:38 PST >>Amen. >>This sort of wallowing in mindless paranoia does us no good >>whatever. As anybody who has ever driven a public highway is >>well aware, there are plenty of jerks and creeps behind steering >>wheels. >>I'm glad that the bicycling ufologist did not suffer serious >>injury, but I think we can safely conclude that the Air Force >>has other. more productive uses for our tax dollars. >>Jerry Clark >Jerry, >Much agreed. >Which raises the question: If running hapless bicycling >ufologists off public roads isn't figured into the Air Force UFO >cover up budget, what current, on-going AF activities are? >Dennis Yes this doesn't sound like this would be an AF activity particularly since this is a domestic situation. Domestic operations would be properly handled by the FBI generally under the class of COINTELPRO operations. There are approximately 5 of those operations publicly documented. This has been documented in the book: Spying on America: The FBI's Domestic Counterintelligence Program by James Kirkpatrick Davis. The author of the book cites the valuable assistance of former FBI director Clarence M. Kelly for encouragement and advice in his foreword. I am surprised Jerry Clark hasn't mentioned examples of domestic counterintelligence operations directed against prominent ufologists mentioned in his UFO Encyclopedia. Several other individuals were also the subject of intelligence community interest between 1980 and 1984. According to Jerry among the UFO researchers listed as targeted for investigation between 1980 to 1984 were: Leonard Stringfield, Pete Mazzola, Peter Gersten, Larry Fawcett, James and Coral Loenzen (of whom we have already spoken), and Larry Bryant. Clark, Jerome The UFO Encyclopedia Vol. 1, UFOs in the 1980s. The Bennewitz Affair pp. 88-100. Detroit, Omnigraphics, 1990. One might reason that two appropriate reason for casually dismissing these claims like this bicyclist could be: 1. The past never happened. 2. History never repeats itself. However, I don't think Dennis could be suggesting these. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 10 'Little Aliens' Hoaxes Continue In Israel From: Moderator, UFO UpDates Toronto Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:31:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:31:54 -0500 Subject: 'Little Aliens' Hoaxes Continue In Israel Source: Sightings Homepage http://www.sightings.com/ufo/minialien.htm Note - Our appreciation to our colleague, Barry Chamish, for staying on top of this story and alerting us immediately upon determining that it has turned out to be, in fact, a hoaxed non-event. HOAX Another Miniature ET 'Body' Discovered In Isreal? Alien Body Found In Israel By Barry Chamish <chamish@netvision.net.il> 11-8-98 From Barry Chamish <chamish@netvision.net.il 11-9-98 After a day's media circus which saw Israel's largest circulation newspaper and leading television news program feature the story as the lead event, the alien body turns out to be nothing. I apologise for believing the Israeli media and Mrs. Maman. I also attribute much of the hysteria to a media policy of demeaning serious ufology. Best, Barry Chamish _______ In the morning of November 9, Mazal Maman of Moshav Keren Ben Zimrah in the northern Galilee went digging for fertilizer. Just under the surface of the ground she found what appeared to be a human body, just 8 cm. in length. "It wasn't haped like an embryo, " she told me. "If it was two meters tall it would look like a human being." Except it has no sexual organs. Its face is human-like with protrusions instead of eye sockets and its hands and feet do not have five digits. Otherwise, it is human in its proportions and features. This is the fourth report of miniature humanoid creatures found in Israel in the past two years. A green being found in Achihod two years ago made international headlines. However, blatant exploitation by two local pseudo-ufologists turned the media against the family which found the creature. Later testing in England showed the creature had the same carbon level as a lizard and this was assumed to have been the end of the case. Israeli testing by state pathologist Yehuda Hiss confused the issue when he found the animal's DNA to be of unknown origin. However Hiss is notorious for his role in two ugly coverups, the Rabin assassination and the mass kidnappings of babies in the 1950s and has little credibility left in the country. A year later, a similar creature found in Yavne was tested at an Ashdod hospital (I have the report) and found to be "an organic body with biological characteristics not previously recorded." The finder would not identify himself, possibly frightened off by the ridicule ultimately suffered by the Achihod discoverers. Shortly after, another creature was found in Kfar Saba but I have no details of the event other than the fact that one reporter was contacted and sworn to keep the facts secret. The Maman creature is a different ballgame. It is totally intact. A police pathologist has confirmed that it is organic, it is not embryonic and not some sort of rubber doll. The discovery has become a huge media event in Israel. I spoke to Mazal Maman and she appears to be a most level-headed woman. At my advice she will keep the entity in her freezer and not hand it over to anyone until she is absolutely confident of the consequences. She has offered me the opportunity of informing experts in the field of ufology about her discovery with the goal of having her creature tested without bias.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 10 Re: Inquiry From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:41:44 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:39:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Inquiry >Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 06:53:00 +0000 >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Inquiry >Dear colleagues, >I wonder can you help. Does anyone have any information of a UFO >sighting allegedly made by an assistant to H.R.H. Prince >Phillip. >Also, I've been asked to check if the former Labour minister >Dennis Healey as to whether or not he had any knowledge of an >official UFO investigation in the UK while he was oin office. Dear Philip: Can you provide the date, hour and at least approximate location? Best wishes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 10 Re: Project Silverbug From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:00:09 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:09:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Project Silverbug >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Silverbug >Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:07:55 -0000 >Having spent the last 18 months looking into 'Silver Bug' (note >correct spelling -two words) it is good to know that finally >people are catching up with it. >We have a good deal of evidence that the Silver Bug discs were >developed in Canada and flown at Papoose Lake as well as >Holloman AFB which might explain all this BS about aliens and >discs that emerged via 'intelligence sources' back in 1972 (I >think that's the correct date). In fact I posted information to >the UFOMIND site a couple of weeks ago but can forward this to >you if you want. >They were developed specifically as a response to certain >evidence of Soviet aggression and increasing intelligence (not >to mention unjustified ant-Soviet paranoia) about possible >Soviet discplanes and flying wing aircraft - see AIR 100-203-79. >I also mentioned this new material on Jeff Rense "Sightings" >programme recently and will be back on the programme on 15/11 >with further revelations. >I suggest people tune in. >Tim Matthews. Tim, I would like to see your evidence (technical papers, etc.) posted on the internet in addition to being described in your post. Thanks,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 10 Re: Linda Mutant Howl: EQ Pegasi Declared a From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:52:55 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:27:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Linda Mutant Howl: EQ Pegasi Declared a >From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:52:58 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Linda Mutant Howl: EQ Pegasi Officially Declared a Richard >Hoaxland? >This just in from Dejanews Pegasi News Group: >EQ Pegasi Officially Declared a Hoax >Author: FChrisBro >Email: fchrisbro@aol.comspamsux >Date: 1998/11/09 >Forums: alt.fan.art-bell >Linda Mutant-Howl, in her weekly 'Dreamland' report, has just >put the final nail into the coffin of the EQ Pegasi hoax. She >reported that over 40 amateur astronomers, as well as >professionals in Australia and at Harvard, have tried and failed >to find any extraterrestrial signal; she stated that the person >who made the original fraudulent report was impersonating the >real Paul Dore, using an outated profile from an old website. >Art's reaction? "I think we should find this person, track them >down, and torture them." He seems to now agree that the whole >thing was fake. >The clumsiness of this scam, in my opinion, has Richard Hoaxland >written all over it. I don't really know whether Art initially >co-operated and got worried about a repeat of the Hale-Bopp >tragedy, or whether he was so gullible that he was taken in. At >any rate, Hoaxland's next appearance should be interesting. >Sir Dave, BsD >Knight of the Wicked Bell Quote >Destroying Angel of Art's Credibility >Deputy Skep-Ti-Cultist (provisional) >MSTie #90121 >La Porte, Tx >As Seen on Usenet >"I think Marianne and I will probably take six months off and go collect >dinosaurs or something." > --Newt Gingrich, 11-6-98 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Newly Updated EQ Pegasi Mirror Site: >http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/latest.html > >Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News: >UFOSEEK... For the Source! www.ufoseek.org =======================================> While I agree in principal with most of the above, I think I would modify at least one statement..... especially this one... > "I think we should find this person, track them >down, and torture them." He seems to now agree that the whole >thing was fake. My personal opinion is that we should let the bastard(s) go and rather, torture those of us who may have given even the least credance to the story _AT FIRST READING_! My reasoning for arriving at this conclusion is simply that it is well known that such intoberation is often framulgated during the waxing or waning, gibbous phase of the moon. But only on alternate Thursdays, and only when the moon is in the seventh house and Big Jupe is lying with Mars. Uh, let's say they are just.... uh, just _FRIENDS_! ? Now that you understand the entire situation, perhaps we should all just sit back and wait for December 7, when the whole sheebang is due for a tune up and the little gray dudes with big eyes are gonna land in Sedona, or is it Pheonix.... maybe it's gonna be the White House Oval Office where they are gonna take some .... er, body fluid samples... Now THAT oughta be real easy. 'Course, it could be Kairos or is it Cairo? No, it isn't any of the above. It's gonna be the return of Lt. Whatshisname who crashed chasing a UFO, oh my, I AM so SORRY, I meant to use the New Age Appellation for UFO, you know, the politically correct one...? CFO No, no, wait, LMO... LSMFT... no, uh... XWYFO, no, no, uh...BJ ohh.. OH MY GAWD I'M SO CONFUSED!!!??? And of course I know why, it's my Curriculum Vitae. I forgot to post it. DAMN! Now you can't believe a word I write. But it's just as well. I aint got nuttin to say anyway. Cheers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 10 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Lynda Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:32:20 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:35:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Project SIGN Research Release >Date: 09 November 1998 13:31 > >Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 22:05:35 -0800 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Project SIGN Research Release > > > >In an earlier posting I mentioned the 1948 Project SIGN >Top Secret Estimate of the Situation (EToS). > >http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/nov/m03-004.shtml > >Since then, Wendy Connors, Project SIGN Research Center, has >agreed to release summaries of her research. (See Below.) > >Alfred C. Loedding was the author of the EToS. He was an expert >in "low aspect ratio aircraft." In a 1947 document he is >referred to as "the engineer in charge of investigation of >unidentified flying objects." (Please note the term was used in >both early US and Canadian documents.) In Loedding's own resume >he refers to himself as the "Initiator of Project SIGN." He was >of German descent, spoke German fluently, and regularly had >German scientists at Wright Field to his home for dinner. > >Since Wendy has agreed to release of some of her findings, it is >possible to comment further on the theorized "flying disc plane" >that secret weapons advocates have said was built at Wright >Field without the knowledge of the Project SIGN. This idea is >ludicrous. McCoy, Deyarmond, Goll, Seahorse, and others >involved with Project SIGN were experts on German aircraft. >Under Projects Paperclip, Lusty and Abstract, they had scoured >German for aircraft and designs of German weapons. McCoy took >all the technical information back to Wright Field microfilmed >and had it translated. > >One must be careful when talking to relatives of these men. Mrs. >McCoy told Dr. Michael Swords that Col. McCoy had nothing to do >with Paperclip. Possibly, she did not want people to know that >her husband worked with German scientists and military men, many >of whom were former Nazis. However, McCoy did work with such >people in compiling his technical library and in technical >intelligence work. He wrote evaluations of the German's >performance and value. Some of these may be found in the >records at the National Archives and USAF Historical Research >Agency at Maxwell AFB. > >Air Intelligence in Europe also periodically recommended >additions to the Germans at Wright Field from interviews done >with German aircraft designers, engineers and military men. > >That Col. McCoy who was seriously short handed and under budget >constrains would waste his resources when he and Loedding both >knew that German scientists at Dayton were producing flying >discs is a completely foolish idea. McCoy would have reported >to Twining, McDonald, and Cabell such projects were the cause of >UFOs and would have recommended that Project SIGN be terminated. > >Loedding, the expert on low aspect ratio aircraft, would not >have produced the EToS if he too knew of the disc plane projects >at Wright Field. > >The "secret aircraft advocates" are barking up the wrong tree. >It is possible, however, that Wright Field and even the >Directorate of Intelligence (formerly ACS/Intel) were left out >of the loop on such developments involving nuclear weapons. >Cabell mentioned the lack of personnel with "Q" clearances at >the establishment of the Air Force. Penetration bombers were >being developed. One of the penetration devices for an attack >on the Soviet Union was "parasite planes." Also, other >developments such as decoys and Electronic Counter Measures >(ECM) devices were also under testing. While the >T-2/Intelligence Division/ATIC had liaison officers at the >Atomic Energy Commission, the above projects were definitely Q >clearance territory. So McCoy and the others might not have >been read in on this research. I would expect, however, that >the nuclear project officers would eventually let ATIC in on any >such projects. However, there would still seem to be a good >area of investigations for disc plane advocates. > >In my 1947 report, there is a parasite plane sighting. During >the 1950 wave there is a widely reported sighting of an Air >Force bomber over Texas releasing what to the witness looked >like a disc. A test of a decoy or ECM device? > >What is needed here is less theorizing and more research. > > >-- >Jan Aldrich >Project 1947 >http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ >P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA <snip> This is a very interesting release but one at variance with the facts that Jan has himself helped to uncover including AIR 100-203-79 stating that jet-powered discs may be responsible for certain sightings and that the XF5U-1 had been 'operational in recent years'. Not to mention all the other evidence that we now have and which has been ignored. Not to mention the vexed question of Soviet discs.......which researchers appear to have washed their hands of entirely.... The knowledge claim that Loedding, not the best or only expert in LAR craft by any means, 'would not' have known about disc planes is an interesting one and almost certainly unprovable but again if there were, as Jan claims, people with ("Q") clearances with information about which we are not yet aware, then it is more than possible that something along the lines of a disc project was in operation. And then of course there is the curious business of the AS Weyl article for Aeroplane magazine which stated (in 1948) that the XF5U-1 had been fitted with jets......and could hover...and ascend vertically much like those supposed 'UFOs'. The Twining memo (23rd September '47) states that sightings of flying discs may be; "the product of some high security project not known to this command". I note also the total lack of mention of the 'Sign' document stating that in relation to flying saucers the US Navy had an X-plane built by Chance-Vought AND that research was being undertaken within the US Navy Engineering Division at that time into boundary layer control and low aspect ratio aircraft. Did the marvellous Loedding know about this I wonder? I note also his design for a flying disc, patented in 1952 (I think off hand), was perhaps the most clumsy of all of the postwar designs and hardly evidence of expertise. Compared with the later Frost designs this was very poor indeed..... There is the evidence from Jack Pickett that discs were built by the US military and had been since then end of World War Two. He was told this by a USAF Intelligence Officer in 1967 and shown photographs too! Although both Jan and Wendy Connors are to be congratulated for their excellent work they appear to have fallen into the trap of believing that everything they get from these archives is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Forward sanitation of documents might be a problem..... So we are not especially interested in theorizing and we are in the process of making further FOIA requests based upon the numerous technical documents now in our possession.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: Major UFO Flap In September From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:48:06 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:43:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Major UFO Flap In September Stig Agermose notes ... >From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:46:30 +0100 >Subject: Major UFO Flap In September 1998 >[List only] >Source: >http://www.mcs.com/~kvg/smear/v45/ss981101.htm >Stig >******* I do hope its only coincidence that this flap has occurred at the same time that the vast armada of bright Iridium satellites was fully deployed up above us. They are so bright that local astronomical society members go out regularly to watch their occasional superflashes. These occur when the satellite panels reflect sunlight at just the right angle for a given location. Its quite impressive, if you're at the right place at the right time. Just an odd thought, -Brian Cuthbertson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:20:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:46:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project SIGN Research Release >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:32:20 -0000 <snip> >So we are not especially interested in theorizing and we are in >the process of making further FOIA requests based upon the >numerous technical documents now in our possession. Glad to hear that you're not going to get into theorizing on the basis of annecdotal evidence, and will be searching for additional FOIA information on this subject. I would be most interested in knowing the source of the FOIA documents if they aren't coming from the "sanitized" archives though. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles From: Andy Denne - <aura@telekabel2.nl> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:28:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:51:39 -0500 Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >From: RobIrving <RobIrving@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:38:05 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? >>Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 14:47:42 +0100 >>From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? >Andy mused: >>And why are they going through an awfull lot of trouble to >>locate pilots on conferences? >Sounds good, doesn't it? A quasi-governmental authority gunning >for crop circles researchers. As if MI5 and Army helicopters isn't >enough, now we have CAA spies. ...M15??? Black helicopters??? Did I mention even _one_ of those in my posting? <snip> >Rob Rob, My concern is mostly the fact that it could be getting harder obtaining aerial photographs of crop formations, and that again will make research more difficult. What kind of p.... me off is the fact that it's just another way to make money for the UK-government...no big conspiracies, no black helicopters and no M15, just another "milking-cow" for the UK. (I'm not sure if that's proper English...) Best wishes, Andy Denne (A.U.R.A.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:13:43 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:55:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 22:28:13 -0500 >Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:15:36 -0500 >Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >>Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 22:05:35 -0800 >>From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Project SIGN Research Release >>In an earlier posting I mentioned the 1948 Project SIGN >>Top Secret Estimate of the Situation (EToS). >>http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/nov/m03-004.shtml >>Since then, Wendy Connors, Project SIGN Research Center, has >>agreed to release summaries of her research. (See Below.) >>Alfred C. Loedding was the author of the EToS. >On what basis do you make this claim? On the basis of research by Dr. Michael Swords, Wendy Connors and Michael Hall. >What research or documentation is there to substantiate this? >Hopefully it is not also the unsubstantiated claim of Wendy >Conners listed down below in this post. Gary, did you write this sentence before or after visiting Wendy's site? I have listened to hours of interviews done on this subject. Wendy will release this material in due course. >It is interesting that you have asserted this without so far >providing information to back this up as it is a point of some >controversy as you well know. Dr. Micheal Swords Has made the >point in IUR Spring 1997 The McCoy Letter pp. 16 that Captain >Robert Sneider chief of Project Sign was its probable author as >it was he who was defending the Estimate of the Situation at the >National Bureau of Standard meeting on November 12, 1948. Concerning Loedding, I think you should take a look at Dr. Swords article again. I also have a draft of a Swords future article which will address the subject. Sorry, but these things take time to be published. What I did was convey a preview of of what is to come. >By the way was Dr. Edward Condon, then the Director of the >National Bureau of Standards present at this meeting? I don't know anything about who was present at this meeting. >Were any of the earlier National Bureau of Standards >investigators of foo fighters present? There is no evidence that I know of to connect the Bureau of Standards to foo-fighters. Do you have such? >Any documentation or evidence that you can provide demonstrating >that Loedding was the author, sole author, as asserted would be >appreciated, otherwise it can be considered only an assertion. >Please make this evidence available to updates readers. Gary, if you look at Wendy's post she has told you where and about when she will provide the information. >>He was an expert >>in "low aspect ratio aircraft." In a 1947 document he is >>referred to as "the engineer in charge of investigation of >>unidentified flying objects." (Please note the term was used in >>both early US and Canadian documents.) In Loedding's own resume >>he refers to himself as the "Initiator of Project SIGN." He was >>of German descent, spoke German fluently, and regularly had >>German scientists at Wright Field to his home for dinner. >>What is needed here is less theorizing and more research. >Yes I agree and what is also needed is more evidence, >documentation and less assertions of solutions to historical >controversies that are not publicly substantiated. What was posted is a summary of research into Project SIGN which has been done, it is clearly noted that further information will be forthcoming. <snip> >>OK, here is some new stuff for all of you to hopefully enjoy. >>1. The Estimate of the Situation was, in fact, written by Alfred >>C. Loedding. <snip> >>4. My research partner, Michael David Hall and I have knowledge >>of who actually fired many of the members of the Project SIGN >>team. This is an ongoing effort and we will not release any more >>details regarding this matter at this time. >Any reason why this information can't be released? Because there are still individuals to interview on this topic. >When and how you will be able to release this? >Will this be in your book, article or chat mentioned below? >>7. Project SIGN was a parallel investigation in conjunction with >>investigations being conducted both at AFOIN and the ONI/ONR. >>9. Many FOIA requests have been made to attempt to obtain new >>documentation regarding the Estimate of the Situation. >>10. Mike Hall and myself have recently completed a general >>interest book on Alfred Loedding and the 1947 UFO Wave. It will >>be available late next month or early January. It is titled, >>"Alfred Loedding and the Great Flying Saucer Wave of 1947." We >>will take advanced orders. Price has not been set. There is much >>new information regarding early 1947 sightings in the book. >>11. Final draft copies of my book are now located at the Fund >>for UFO Research and the Dr. J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO >>Studies. No date or publisher has been set for its release. It >>is tentatively titled: "Anatomy of a Project: Project SIGN. An >>Illustrative History of the First Secret Investigation of UFOs >>by the USAF." >>12. An International UFO Reporter article detailing Michael Hall >>and my work on Loedding is tentatively scheduled for release >>early next year. >>13. I have been invited and accepted a guest shot on the MSN UFO >>Forum Chat for November 27th. >>Wendy Connors >>Project SIGN Research Center >>InterLink Site Directory >>http://www.evansville.net/~slk/InterLink.html >Excellent web site, thanks for the hard work. >Gary -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA Telephone: (860) 546-9135
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:09:01 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:57:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third >From: Bob Foster <rlfost@campusnet.org> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third Kind' >Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:18:04 -0500 >>Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:46:05 -0600 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third >>Kind' >>>From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:42:19 +0100 >>>Subject: Devil's Tower - 'Close Encounters Of The Third Kind' >>>[List only] >>>Stig >>>******* >><snip> >>If I am not mistaken, the seven sisters became the seven stars >>in the constellation Pleiades, not the Big Dipper. >>REgards, Mike >FYI: In Cherokee the term for the Pleiades is The Seven >Brothers. And, for those who are wondering, yes, this was a >Pre-Contact (i.e. of the earthly kind) term. How interesting...I didn't know that. But I do know that My Dad's mother was full blooded Cherokee... He was half and I am One/third... I origionally came to Kentucky from my home state of Georgia...My Grandmother was from near Fourt Payne, Alabama...She married my Grandfather somewhere around the turn of the century... REgards, Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent his way will go directly to my screen. If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455. My Home Telephone Number is: (502) 683-6811
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 DISPATCH # 109 -- the weekly newsletter of From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:30:12 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:21:06 -0500 Subject: DISPATCH # 109 -- the weekly newsletter of S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 11/10/98 Quote of the Week ''Do we have a clear plan on what we want Apple to do to undermine Sun?'' --Internal Microsoft e-mail "How much do we need to pay you to screw Netscape? This is your lucky day." --Bill Gates to executives at America Online ----------------------- Rant of the Week: �The Nomadic Team Player� Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, �Boone� makes a case for buying a gun to defend against the monkey penises of the apocalypse. Enjoy. "To be quite succinct, there are two kinds of force. The arm of flesh and the power of God. As a child I heard the adage, "Might makes right!" And in the world of man, and beast, this is true. Like the scripture asks, "What preeminence has a man over a beast?" In the natural, he has none. He is a killer. He has a will to power. What he can grab, he will. What he can subjugate, he does. Rights stem from the ability to kill or to do harm. At least in the world of beast and man. If I can walk among natural men unscathed, it is quite likely because the possible ramifications of attacking me are unacceptable. The price is too high. These things change with the enviorment. "There are no rights of men. Through the foolishness of law and constitutions and things of that order, men are taught there are rights, but it is a fallacy. An overlay is placed over their natural drives and they become monkeys trained to ride their bicycles. Little monkeys that dance for the hurdy-gurdy man and beg for money. And other good little monkies, all trained to mind momma, walk by and smile as they drop money in the little tin cup. "So many overlays have been cast over the psyche of man. Once upon a time, man walked in the Garden in the cool of the day and talked with God. Now, that's all gone. Man has lost his knowledge of how to speak and co-exist with Deity. Mao was correct, in one sense, that all power comes from the end of a gun. Natural man proves this daily. "But men learned to live together eons ago. There was the arm-of-flesh stud order, to be sure. But that was tempered by the need of survival. You didn't kill the men in your group to take over all the women when you knew that the clan on the next ridge would discern your weakness and come kill you! Every clan had it's own rules. They worked as a team for the communal survial. They had their divisions of labor, their strengths and their weaknesses. They were at their best when they stayed small enough to be flexible and mobile. The wondering nomads were probably of a high order of social development. And this, for all practical purposes, is now gone. "That nomadic team player has disapeared. In his place is a whipped, chained, and brain washed sissy that has so many needles stuck in him to keep him drained that he can barely walk around. And those with a little masculine creativity left in them have been reduced to pecking at keyboards and posting to gun lists. Ahh...the gun lists. That sanctuary where men still harbor the dream of being able to defend themselves from predators. Looking at the general condition of the world, it's about the only show left to see. And momma hasn't been able to abolish it yet. But she's working on it. "I remember walkin' out of my village with a buddy, goin' huntin'. We walked by a brother of the more tender sort and he remarked, "Taking your penis' for a walk?" For those of you who are unaware, a gun is considered a penis symbol. And we remarked, "Whats wrong with having a penis?" I, for one, think it quite natural to have a penis. Well, when mother gets through with all of you, your penis' will be atavistic. Something from the long ago and far away. "You may write all your constitutions and laws and such on toilet paper for all I care. Time will bear me out that toilet paper is what they all become. What you better be looking out for is your guns and what they entail, what they represent." ------ All rants are printed �as is,� with spelling and grammar goofs left uncorrected. Some rants may be edited for brevity or clarity, to the extent such a thing is possible. If you�ve got a rant you�d like to share, send it to pscplady@aol.com with �possible rant� in the subject line of your letter. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up This Week! Catch a number of great stories this week on the ParaScope web and AOL sites, including daily updates to our Conspiracy Newsline and Daily Dose features. Among the articles you'll want to check out: Magonia ETH Bulletin: All-New Edition Magonia editor John Harney delves into the case of a Close Encounter of the First Kind in Exeter, New Hampshire, in which Project Bluebook officials deliberately undermined witnesses while offering a "plausible" cover story to the public. Also in this edition: book reviews, readers' letters and more. ------------------- UK UFO News Georgina Bruni brings us a new roundup of UFOlogy news from Britain. Find out about the Central TV UFO debate, read a column by Nick Pope on recent events, developments and investigations, and lots more. ------------------- Conspiracy Newsline Updates on all things conspiratorial. ABC News posts election "results" before the first vote is cast; results of Washington, D.C. medical marijuana initiative kept secret; Assassination Records Review Board staff report contends that National Archive photos do NOT show Kennedy's brain, fueling charges of a medical evidence cover-up; lots more news. ------------------- UFO Roundup Get the latest UFO news and sighting reports, courtesy of Joseph Trainor's UFO Roundup. Alleged alien radio signal causes controversy; two goats mutilated in northern Ohio; UFO flies up Colorado's "mysterious valley"; lots more news. ...All this, and much, much more! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, to subscribe: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 UFO Pop Quiz... From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:00:05 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:27:01 -0500 Subject: UFO Pop Quiz... Hello, list... I've some questions for everyone that's been on my tiny little mind for quite some time. I have no real position on this; merely curious what any of you might think. Here goes.... Question #1) Does anyone know if the number of night sightings of UFOs is greater than day sightings. If so, then what is the approximate ratio? Question #2) If the number of night sightings is disproportionately larger, then what do you feel the reason is? Question #3) If the number of day sightings is disproportionately larger, then what do you feel the reason is? Question #4) If the reason for more frequent night visitations is because the ETs in question are trying to avoid detection, then why do they bother leaving their "running lights" on, thereby making themselves highly visible? Question #5) If the ET's in question leave their "running lights" on because they want to be noticed, then why don't they show themselves during the day when detection would be easier? Silly questions. Thanks for your time.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road From: KarenGuetzow <kareng@xanadu2.net> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:09:29 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:37:57 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road >From: Bob Young<YoungBob2@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:26:52EST >Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 09:16:10-0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Researcher Forced Off Road >What is an "Air Force - type Mechanics truck", driven by a >civilian According to Michael Unum, "I have been told from Natives in the area that those blue mechanics motor pool trucks are availabe surplus from Holloman Air Force Base so it could have been anyone." Before Unum went on his bicycle trip I did a story about Unum's upcoming trip for the exoScienceUFO site. This site gets about 3000 hits per day. I'm also aware that Unum posted information about his upcoming trip on various bbs. Therefore, I have to consider the possibility that Unum's attacker wasn't just someone who was out to get a twisted thrill. Note, I said "possibility". I do not wish to spread paranoia on the net and I'm not saying that the Air Force was involved. Furthermore, if Unum had not been followed previous to the attack, I would have dismissed the attack as something done by a tough guy/jerk.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: Project Silverbug From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:08:08 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:34:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Project Silverbug >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:00:09 -0800 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Silverbug >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Silverbug >>Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:07:55 -0000 >>Having spent the last 18 months looking into 'Silver Bug' (note >>correct spelling -two words) it is good to know that finally >>people are catching up with it. <snip> >Tim, I would like to see your evidence (technical papers, etc.) >posted on the internet in addition to being described in your >post. >Thanks, >Josh Goldstein Anyone got a fee web site and scanner? Of course you could always check out; www.cufon.org for a start. Tim X
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 02:56:20 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:12:32 -0500 Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >From: RobIrving <RobIrving@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:38:05 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? >>Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 14:47:42 +0100 >>From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? >Andy mused: >>And why are they going through an awfull lot of trouble to >>locate pilots on conferences? >Sounds good, doesn't it? A quasi-governmental authority gunning >for crop circles researchers. As if MI5 and Army helicopters isn't >enough, now we have CAA spies. >My advice: Consider the source. It's highly likely the CAA are >not going to any such trouble. I heard this story in the summer >and it appeared to be coming from a disgruntled, once-popular >pilot who openly resented his loss of monopoly in what has now >become a (relatively) lucrative business. It doesn't take much - >in this case, a single complaint to the CAA - to get Andrews >spinning tales re. suppression of 'research'. >Rob How about asking the CAA? Josh
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 02:53:47 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:09:55 -0500 Subject: Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' >Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 20:06:53 -0800 >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' >Recently, the Muroc Air Base sightings of 8 July 1947 >have figured into the "disc plane" theory. >http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/muroc47.htm >It is alleged that the Muroc sightings were either the >"Flying Flap Jack," XF5U-1, or a jet powered advanced >development of a similar aircraft. No proof which can be >independently checked is offered. >Aviation historians stated that the XF5U-1 only underwent >limited tests and did not flying any extensive course in 1947. >In 1947 it was reported in the newspapers that the "Flying >Flap Jack" had supposed superior flight characteristics if >exploited. >There is no evidence that it was further exploited! If the >"disc plane" advocates believe it was, they simple have to >produce records of such tests and serial numbers and official >records of such aircraft. In the 1970s I worked for the National Air and Space Museum restoring historical aircraft and spacecraft at their Paul Garber preservation, restoration, and storage facility. We had the XF5U in storage there. For those who want to obtain aircraft history records outside of the National Archives, I strongly suggest contacting the museum, where they have possibly the most extensive aviation library and the best aircraft historians on the planet. Josh Goldstein
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles From: Robert Irving <RobIrving@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:31:39 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:17:48 -0500 Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:28:07 +0100 >From: Andy Denne - <aura@telekabel2.nl> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles Andy, >...M15??? Black helicopters??? Did I mention even _one_ of >those in my posting? No, but the story as told by you originates from someone whose claims of government harrassment are legendary - and, I might add, untrue. It is no suprise that whatever mundane root the story has, it branches into a tale of dark suppression. My comment was not aimed directly at you. Er, I didn't mention 'black' helicopters either. I wrote 'army' helicopters. >My concern is mostly the fact that it could be getting harder >obtaining aerial photographs of crop formations, and that again >will make research more difficult. I think it's safe to assume that will not be the case. If it were you might be more concerned by a sharp decrease in formations as a result. Btw, what exactly is the nature of 'research' into photographs of patterns? Rob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' From: Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug <KONAWS@statoil.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:01:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:19:28 -0500 Subject: Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' >Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 20:06:53 -0800 >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' <snip> >It is alleged that the Muroc sightings were either the >"Flying Flap Jack," XF5U-1, or a jet powered advanced >development of a similar aircraft. No proof which can be >independently checked is offered. <snip> Hi List, Just for your info., here are some URLs showing the XF5U-1: http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/~ortmann/f5u.htm http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/~ortmann/f5u-b.jpg http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/~ortmann/v173-a.gif Regards, AWS
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:19:05 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:30:26 -0500 Subject: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' As somone who has had a more than passing interest in affairs aeronautical, the XF5U contraversy an attendant Nazi hysteria has gotten me riled up as a muddy water hole. Willy Ley astonomer, rocketeer, Jew. Willy is one of the great men of the 20th Century, he also named the men of the German rocket Programs who were not Nazis or least rabid Nazis, the Russians got those who were more 'Nazified' and found out they (the Russians) were better off than they had imagined. For "Paperclip"Ley went to bat for several of the Germans, especially Von Braun, Willy Ley was a 'Spacer', a 'Rocketeer'. and he had a lot to say about Hilter's Germany having been thrown out, (thank God) and who was best and brightest - and could be trusted. Willy Ley deserves more. Pulse jets: "Glorified Oil Furnaces" - Pulse jets were not the powerplant of the ages, they were -on/off- and impossible to throttle. XF5U- very publicly disposed of to mechanics training/scrapping. The Hortens, went to Argentina,built gilders. Nothing on Northrop. This is the 'Big One' - if the Germans had a 'Flying Saucer', one wonders, why didn't they decimate the Bomber Streams. (Goring would have sent Himmler to the ovens to get his hands on a SS 'saucer', perversely - er, conversley ditto Himmler.) Sorry for the rant, but this is what I percive as the truth. Most of the imformation is avialible in periodicals and books of 20 or more years ago. No secret. No legends. _Fact_ . GT McCoy - Maybe Related to Col. McCoy (Both of them) or not. "It may be the Easy Way but, its not the Cowboy way." - Riders in the sky
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: UFO Pop Quiz... From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:38:12 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:36:41 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Pop Quiz... In a message dated 11/11/98 7:10:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, updates@globalserve.net writes: >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:00:05 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO Pop Quiz... >Hello, list... >I've some questions for everyone that's been on my tiny little >mind for quite some time. I have no real position on this; >merely curious what any of you might think. >Here goes.... >Question #1) >Does anyone know if the number of night sightings of UFOs is >greater than day sightings. If so, then what is the approximate >ratio? >Question #2) >If the number of night sightings is disproportionately larger, >then what do you feel the reason is? This may demonstrate a purely psychological intent. Nighttime has always represented what may be referred to as the "silly season" for humankind. In all our myths and throughout our history, everything "ab" or "para" normal is more easily recognized as being strange. It's easy to be frightened when you can't see. Further, during the history of humankind, prior to our developing the means to light up the night, this time of darkness created foreboding which may have gone a long way towards creating many of the myths which still carry in our time. If you can't see what's making the noise, maybe it's your mother in law's ghost come back to haunt you all over again. EeeeGaaads what a horrible thought. Bite my tongue. >Question #3) >If the number of day sightings is disproportionately larger, >then what do you feel the reason is? >Question #4) >If the reason for more frequent night visitations is because the >ETs in question are trying to avoid detection, then why do they >bother leaving their "running lights" on, thereby making >themselves highly visible? Damned good question. I've thought about this often. The only idea which came to mind that might make sense is that it may be easier to recognize those lights as aviation lights for conventional aircraft. It's an airplane, not a UFO. The sighting in August of this year, of a triangular object, could have easily been mistaken for an aircraft. To recognize it as unconventional you had to be paying attention. For example, it was making no noise. It was traveling too slow. The navigation lights were wrong. Having made these discoveries, you then concentrated on the shape and the lighting. It was a triangle. HUH?!? It was leading with a flat edge. Knowing the ceiling, you had to know the thing was humongous. HUH?!? etc, etc. The only problem with this one is the likelihood that we have been visited prior to the invention of the airplane. At which point my theory goes out the window, which is the way they sometimes come in. >Question #5) >If the ET's in question leave their "running lights" on because >they want to be noticed, then why don't they show themselves >during the day when detection would be easier? >Silly questions. Thanks for your time. >Later, >Roger Evans Great questions, Roger. Unfortunately there are no really good answers, which is and always has been the problem. I intentionally avoided answering #1, 3 and 5 because I do not know the ratio of day Vs night sightings. Hell, I don't even know what I had for dinner last night. Regards, Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 And furthermore.....! From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:19:56 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:07:10 -0500 Subject: And furthermore.....! Each and every one of you are so full of bull dingy it isn't even funny. I have never heard more claptrap, more insanity or more culpable stupidity in all my life. You are all WRONG. How can you be so stupid? I am shocked and surprised that you actually wrote that. What are you anyway, some kind of cultist or what? And in conculsion. _JUST DON'T LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN_! You jerk! =====================================> Dear List... I will be a little busy this week and I wanted to make sure that the next ten or twenty posts were properly covered with a rebuttal in the manner in which rebuttals tend to be rebutted in this forum. So please consider this post to me my answer to the next twenty posts, OK? Sorry if I can't be more specific about the subject matter, but what the hell. I think this can easily be applied to just about any post covering subjects from grays to Heinrich Himmler and from cooties to the Bell show. Thanks. "I was only robbin the register, I hope ya understand." Jim Mortellaro Rense for President
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: UFO Pop Quiz... From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:50:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:09:30 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Pop Quiz... >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:00:05 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO Pop Quiz... >Question #4) >If the reason for more frequent night visitations is because the >ETs in question are trying to avoid detection, then why do they >bother leaving their "running lights" on, thereby making >themselves highly visible? >Question #5) >If the ET's in question leave their "running lights" on because >they want to be noticed, then why don't they show themselves >during the day when detection would be easier? >Silly questions. Thanks for your time. Roger - It's a little strong to call them silly. But they are difficult to answer for a number of reasons: 1) They assume that UFOs are caused by ETI. While this is a reasonable working hypothesis, only the abduction accounts (the least certain of all UFO reports) purport to provide cultural or motivational information about the occupants. Thus, answers to questions of motivation can only be provided at the cost of accepting accounts which are far from the strongest available. 2) They assume that UFO lighting is, in fact, lighting. As I have shown in http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufolumin.htm the evidence suggests strongly that UFO lighting is luminosity generated by a plasma in proximity to the UFO surface. The pattern of UFO behavior and the associated luminosity suggests: a) UFO luminosity is not conventional lighting ("running lights"). CE witnesses have seldom seen what could be interpreted as conventional "lights" on UFOs. The Blenheim NZ case of 1959, for instance, clearly shows that rim lighting is generated by some form of luminous plasma. Distance effects are likely to be the cause of some UFO lighting being interpreted as "running lights". b) UFO luminosity is not, however, a byproduct of the lift producing system of the UFO. UFOs have been observed to extinguish lighting when hovering, and yet that UFO continues to fly. However, it does appear that UFOs cannot attain speed without displaying luminosity, and that full body luminosity is a characteristic of the highest speeds (though it may still be maintained at lower speeds, perhaps because the cost of renergizing the sheath is high enough that this is more efficient). (Note that this is a provisional conclusion; it is certainly possible that "extinguished lighting" is simply emitting in nonvisible regions of the spectrum.) c) Other forms of UFO lighting, such as light beams, also do not seem to be the result of conventional lights. UFO light beams also have some of the qualities of plasmas, particularly 1) slow propagation speeds, 2) diffuse edges, and 3) ability to be extended and retracted to specific lengths. However, even when considered as plasmas, UFO light beams have some unique qualities. -- Obviously, the reason that UFOs carry lights seems to have only a few possible answers: 1) Lighting is an byproduct of some process in the UFO and it cannot be separated from that process any more than we are able to separate sound from a jet engine or wind from a helicopter rotor. 2) UFO occupants don't care, because the performance of UFOs is such that being observed will not lead to a problem for them. 3) UFO occupants allow themselves to be observed because they are attempting to get us used to their presence. Frankly, I suspect (1) and (2) in combination are probably the best answer. The evidence of the past 50 years seems to me to suggest that we are not the subjects of some sort of vast and organized scientific study, nor are we being qualified or developed for membership in some sort of Star Trekian "Federation". BTW, you should also realize there are a number of problems with relying on any answer provided to your first questions as to the ratio of daylight to evening sightings. First, remember that we cannot determine the frequency of sightings, only of reported sightings. 1) The proportions have varied over the years. It is not clear whether these are selection effects based on what is thought worthy of reporting by the observer, changes in air traffic patterns (which might make modern witnesses less conscious of unusual distant airborne objects in the daytime), or even a change in the behavior of UFOs. Further, there are selection effects based on the greater visibility of luminous objects at night compared to reflective objects during the day. Finally, the study of UFO witnesses suggests that the witnesses likeliest to see UFOs are those who are outside, and since most people work inside during the day, and are inside during most daytime hours during the winter, this may also affect the number of daytime vs. nighttime sightings. It seems to me to be difficult if not impossible to provide an answer which does not simply indicate what time of day generates sightings more likely to be reported. This does not, of course, actually indicate the distribution of sightings. 2) Averaging reports across a variety of population densities may mask effects which bear on the result. For instance, it is possible that there are more daylight sightings in isolated areas than in more densely populated areas. 3) As you may know, Vallee did extensive studies on the time pattern of UFO reports. He found that the time patterns varied by the classification of the UFO in his relatively simple behavioral classification system. Obviously this would also corrupt any attempt to provide a general answer to your question that was meaningful. Hope this helps. ------ Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at http://www.temporaldoorway.com - Original digital art, writing, and UFO research - Author of SF novels available at... http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm ------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: Major UFO Flap In September From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:59:50 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:41:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Major UFO Flap In September >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:48:06 -0600 (CST) >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Major UFO Flap In September >Stig Agermose notes ... >>From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:46:30 +0100 >>Subject: Major UFO Flap In September 1998 >>[List only] >>Source: >>http://www.mcs.com/~kvg/smear/v45/ss981101.htm >>Stig >>******* >I do hope its only coincidence that this flap has occurred at >the same time that the vast armada of bright Iridium satellites >was fully deployed up above us. They are so bright that local >astronomical society members go out regularly to watch their >occasional superflashes. These occur when the satellite panels >reflect sunlight at just the right angle for a given location. >Its quite impressive, if you're at the right place at the right >time. >Just an odd thought, > -Brian Cuthbertson Dear Brian... it makes a whole lot of sense to ALWAYS look for down-to-earth and natural phenomena to explain the strange and seemingly unnatural or extraordinary. Just as an afterthought to your reasoning and certainly not to fight you on the possibility, but it is so hard to maintain a balance in this business that can get crazy. Think of the standard distribution curve, AKA, the Bell Curve (and I don't mean Art's). We all have to try to stay in that one or two sigma region near the top. Not too far on one side or the other, know what I mean? Take the possibility that the "armada" to which you refer, is guilty as charged for impersonating UFO's... how many sats are there up there? How many sightings have there been and in what part of the sky? How many of these were dancing to the Lambada as opposed to sitting there in a nice neat orbit? How many were carrying navigation lights? How many had a solid shape and form which could be observed? How many actually came close enough to the ground and to the observer to be easily recognized as to shape, size and form? How many had little slant-eyed guys floating along with you down some dark corridor? How many times have you seen a UFO? You know, one that you could honestly say, "Gee, what the hell is that?" It isn't plane or train or flying taxicab, nor is it conventional in it's appearance or performance! If you've seen one, you will never be the same person. Never. If you perceive that you were IN one you will never be the same. Never. If you fit into either of those categories, now listen up, this is important, _You_will_never,_never,_ever,_think_twice_about_what_it_ is,_what_they_are_and_what_has_been_done_to_you_! Never. Just an odd thought. Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:26:23 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:47:21 -0500 Subject: Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' Asgeir, List: The 'Flying Flap Jack' was not a mystery in 1947. On the front page of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram on Sunday, July 6, 1947 -- the Roswell 'flying disk' story broke two days _later_ on July 8, 1947 -- one of these is pictured close up with an "AP Wirephoto" credit. The cutline says: "RESEMBLES FLYING DISK--Navy officials in Washington said the V-173, a wingless plane called the 'flying pancake', is the only craft they operate which would answer the description of the 'flying disk'. They said, however, that the only plane of this type has never left Bridgeport, Conn." Asgeir, could it be that the Navy was lying too? James Bond Johnson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 12:36:57 PST Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:51:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:19:05 -0800 >Willy Ley astonomer, rocketeer, Jew. Willy is one of the great >men of the 20th Century, he also named the men of the German >rocket Programs who were not Nazis or least rabid Nazis, the >Russians got those who were more 'Nazified' and found out they >(the Russians) were better off than they had imagined. Hold on a minute. I think you've lost me. Whatever his accomplishments (one of which, modest enough, was to be a hero of my youth), Ley was hardly "one of the great men of the 20th Century" (that title goes to the likes of Einstein, Freud, Sakharov, Mandela, King, FDR, Churchill, and the like [or, on the Dark Side of that equation, Stalin, Hitler, Mao]). Ley certainly was not an astronomer, at least a professional one. He was basically just another of us freelance writers, always scraping for a buck and serving as living proof that the number of writers who make a living wage is pretty damn small. You don't mention his role as a pioneering cryptozoological writer, author of several books on what he called "exotic zoology" before anybody thought up the term "cryptozoology." These important albeit flawed works are discussed by Aaron M. Bauer in Cryptozoology 9 (1990): 88-91. I had not heard before that Ley was Jewish, which would not matter at all if, of course, such things had not mattered profoundly to Nazi murderers. Are you sure of this? From what I understand, Ley fled Germany not because he feared Hitler's ethnic cleansing but because he thought the Nazis might come down on him for publishing rocketry articles outside Germany. If you know better, I'd be happy to be corrected. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 Re: UFO Pop Quiz... From: Jsmortell@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:14:12 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:57:41 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Pop Quiz... >Subject: UFO UpDate: UFO Pop Quiz... >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:50:16 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:00:05 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: UFO Pop Quiz... >>Question #4) >>If the reason for more frequent night visitations is because the >>ETs in question are trying to avoid detection, then why do they >>bother leaving their "running lights" on, thereby making >>themselves highly visible? >>Question #5) >>If the ET's in question leave their "running lights" on because >>they want to be noticed, then why don't they show themselves >>during the day when detection would be easier? >>Silly questions. Thanks for your time. >Roger - >It's a little strong to call them silly. But they are difficult >to answer for a number of reasons: >1) They assume that UFOs are caused by ETI. While this is a >reasonable working hypothesis, only the abduction accounts (the >least certain of all UFO reports) purport to provide cultural or >motivational information about the occupants. Thus, answers to >questions of motivation can only be provided at the cost of >accepting accounts which are far from the strongest available. >2) They assume that UFO lighting is, in fact, lighting. As I >have shown in >http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufolumin.htm >the evidence suggests strongly that UFO lighting is luminosity >generated by a plasma in proximity to the UFO surface. >The pattern of UFO behavior and the associated luminosity >suggests: >a) UFO luminosity is not conventional lighting ("running >lights"). CE witnesses have seldom seen what could be >interpreted as conventional "lights" on UFOs. The Blenheim NZ >case of 1959, for instance, clearly shows that rim lighting is >generated by some form of luminous plasma. Distance effects are >likely to be the cause of some UFO lighting being interpreted as >"running lights". Oh God, here goes my credibility. In another post I gave a blanket post rebutting the next ten posts..... I didn't mean to lie, sorry! >CE witnesses have seldom seen what could be >interpreted as conventional "lights" on UFOs. You've been talking to the wrong witnesses, friend! >1) They assume that UFOs are caused by ETI. While this is a >reasonable working hypothesis, only the abduction accounts (the >least certain of all UFO reports) Strange, I always thought that educated, sane and credible witnesses were the best evidence... if your opinion of many of these people including me, is so low, then there is a problem with your research from the get-go. The question which I would always ask of any theorist is and should aways be is, "Have you ever sighted a UFO or perceive that you've been abducted?? The answer precludes most of the "theories!" put forth in such erudition as is often submitted. For example, there are a a few sightings to which I have been witness and both exhibited lights (no matter the method used to produce them). These lights fit into all of the following categories.... they were navigation lights, some flashed and strobed, others were constant, but they were LIGHTS. One vehicle sighting with multiple witnesses reporting, had white, red and a piercing blue-white strobe lights. Personally I tend to separate these lights from the plasma glow (if indeed that is what it really is) which ALSO accompanied the vehicle and lit it up quite brightly. As to distance effects, there was a sighting in my county witnessed and reported by about thirty people that I am aware of, the vehicle was less than 4000 feet from the observer and the atmosphere was clear to the ceiling which was 5000 feet. Simply, the body of the craft glowed and carried lights some of which flashed, some remained on and some came on and off. I am not arguing rim lighting or plasma effects, I am arguing running lights. I've seen them. Without posting a CV, I spent the years bewteen 1966 and 1975 in aerospace as an engineer and worked on numerous spacecraft, missile and aircraft systems. I am also an astronomer (amateur). Admittedly, however, I do ingest jellybeans. This could affect my judgement. I am an engineer, and a pretty good one, too. I am trained to observe and analyse. I need to have formulas in which to place everything. My fondest dream is to have one equation which explains God, the Universe and Everything. >b) UFO luminosity is not, however, a byproduct of the lift >producing system of the UFO. UFOs have been observed to >extinguish lighting when hovering, and yet that UFO continues to >fly. However, it does appear that UFOs cannot attain speed >without displaying luminosity, and that full body luminosity is >a characteristic of the highest speeds (though it may still be >maintained at lower speeds, perhaps because the cost of >renergizing the sheath is high enough that this is more >efficient). >(Note that this is a provisional conclusion; it is certainly >possible that "extinguished lighting" is simply emitting in >nonvisible regions of the spectrum.) >c) Other forms of UFO lighting, such as light beams, also do not >seem to be the result of conventional lights. UFO light beams >also have some of the qualities of plasmas, particularly 1) slow >propagation speeds, 2) diffuse edges, and 3) ability to be >extended and retracted to specific lengths. However, even when >considered as plasmas, UFO light beams have some unique >qualities. How are you specifically using the word "diffuse?" Concentrated? Focused? If so, I agree (based on my experience). Linear and bordered? Agreed once again in my experience. >Obviously, the reason that UFOs carry lights seems to have only >a few possible answers: >1) Lighting is an byproduct of some process in the UFO and it >cannot be separated from that process any more than we are able >to separate sound from a jet engine or wind from a helicopter >rotor. >2) UFO occupants don't care, because the performance of UFOs is >such that being observed will not lead to a problem for them. >3) UFO occupants allow themselves to be observed because they >are attempting to get us used to their presence. >Frankly, I suspect (1) and (2) in combination are probably the >best answer. The evidence of the past 50 years seems to me to >suggest that we are not the subjects of some sort of vast and >organized scientific study, nor are we being qualified or >developed for membership in some sort of Star Trekian >"Federation". Sorry, my two cents again. The words you selected are, "THE EVIDENCE OF THE LAST 50 YEARS..." Key on the word evidence. While there is indeed, evidence, there is little or no evidence of intent. None whatsoever. In fact, many books (I refer to the most credible by the best of researchers - and even the worst) but most testimony reveals divers reasons for the abduction. Pick the one you wish to believe. There's a whole bunch. o Prepare for Armigeddon o Prepare for their coming o Prepare for earth changes...... oy, a whole bunch more. >BTW, you should also realize there are a number of problems with >relying on any answer provided to your first questions as to the >ratio of daylight to evening sightings. First, remember that we >cannot determine the frequency of sightings, only of reported >sightings. >1) The proportions have varied over the years. It is not clear >whether these are selection effects based on what is thought >worthy of reporting by the observer, changes in air traffic >patterns (which might make modern witnesses less conscious of >unusual distant airborne objects in the daytime), or even a >change in the behavior of UFOs. >Further, there are selection effects based on the greater >visibility of luminous objects at night compared to reflective >objects during the day. >Finally, the study of UFO witnesses suggests that the witnesses >likeliest to see UFOs are those who are outside, and since most >people work inside during the day, and are inside during most >daytime hours during the winter, this may also affect the number >of daytime vs. nighttime sightings. Then there are those sightings day OR night in which the obsever is somehow _compelled_ to go outside and look! Phooey! >It seems to me to be difficult if not impossible to provide an >answer which does not simply indicate what time of day generates >sightings more likely to be reported. This does not, of course, >actually indicate the distribution of sightings. > >2) Averaging reports across a variety of population densities >may mask effects which bear on the result. For instance, it is >possible that there are more daylight sightings in isolated >areas than in more densely populated areas. >3) As you may know, Vallee did extensive studies on the time >pattern of UFO reports. He found that the time patterns varied >by the classification of the UFO in his relatively simple >behavioral classification system. Obviously this would also >corrupt any attempt to provide a general answer to your >question that was meaningful. >Hope this helps. Now for the couppie de grassey.... my entire point in this post is to clearly indicate that the one thing missing in every theory, every sighting, every research, every abduction and every radio and TV show, _everything_ is an answer in which the words often selected can be used... "prove, shown to be, _are_, etc." I get very worried when I hear or read words that appear so definitive as to be represented as fact. Phooey!
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 11 The Flying Flapjacks, V-173 and XF5U-1 From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:06:20 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:40:19 -0500 Subject: The Flying Flapjacks, V-173 and XF5U-1 We are informed by Tim Mathews that the Top Secret "Analysis of Flying Object Incidents over the US" stated that the XF5U-1 was flying around. http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/1948air.htm Here is the quote that Tim must be referring to: "Among those which have been operational in recent years are the XF5U-1 ("Flying Flapjack") developed by Chance-Vaught, the Northrup B-35, and the turbo-jet powered Northrup YB-49. The present existence of any privately developed flying-wing type aircraft has not been determined but one such aircraft, the Arup tailless monoplane, was operational at South Bend, Indiana, prior to 1935." I would be more confident that the "Analysis" authors were correct if they were able to properly identify the XF5U-1. On the last page of the "Analysis" we find the following: "c. CHANCE-VOUGHT XF5U-1. Developed by Chance-Vought Aircraft, this radical design promises the reality of high and low speed performance. Powered by two R-2000-2 engines, the airplane will have a speed range from 40 to 425 miles per hour. (See Fig. 8)" Figure 8 is not a picture of the XF5U-1 but the predecessor, the V-173 which did indeed fly. Many people use information on the two different, but similar aircraft, interchangeably. Tim Mathews caught me on this. Obviously the authors of the "Analysis" did the same. Recently Joel Carpenter brought an early 1947 news reel to the Project 1947 Research List attention: Hello Folks- One more significant newsreel to bring to your attention. Dated June 21, 1947. Wonder if Ken Arnold went to the movies? - Joel Carpenter (please note that there are many typos in this which I have fixed in brackets) Collection PMN Negative C-9112 Release_Date 06-21-47 Issue 87 Footage 111 Cameraman BLUM Source Description STRATFORD, CONNECTICUT NAVY UNVEILS WORLD'S WEIRDEST AIRPLANE INTRODUCING THE XF5U-1, THE NAVY'S FANTASTIC, FLYING-WING FIGHTER. AT STRATFORD, CONNECTICUT, TEST FLIGHTS DEMONSTRATE THE INCREDIBLE POSSIBILITIES OF THE PLANE. POTENTIALLY IT HAS THE SLOWEST LANDING SPEED AND THE FASTEST FLYING SPEED OF ANY PROPELLER-DRIVEN AIRCRAFT. IT'S OUR NOMINATION FOR THE WORLD'S WEIRDEST AIRPLANE! SV FLAPJACK, VHANCE [CHANCE] VOUGHT N-F-F U-1 [XF5U-1], NAVY EXPERIMENTAL FIGHTER PLANE, FLYING DIRECTLY ABOVE CAMERA. GV CROWD LOOKING. CU ARMY OFFICERS LOOKING. GV PLANE LANDING. CROWD. EL V MEN TURNING THE PLANE AROUND. CU PILOT, BOONE GUFTON [GUYTON], CLOSING THE PLEXI-GLASS HOOD. SV PLANE TAKING OFF. ANGLE V PLANE FLYING DIRECTLY OVER CAMERA (THIS SC. IS REPEAT OF SCENE 2). ORIGINAL NEGATIVE. "A" VERSION DUPE NEGATIVE IN STORAGE. CROSS REFERENCE F-5 U-1, VOUGHT (XF-5U-1): NAVY FIGHTER (IN AIR; LANDS; TAKES OFF; ETC.) When I asked Joel if his research could be reposted here, he offered the further information below. Hi Jan- Certainly! Important to note! I think that even though it claims to show the XF5U-1 flying, what it really is the V-173. I have pretty extensive clippings about the Vought airshow on 18-20 June 47, and several times it is mentioned in various papers that the show was the very first public showing of the V-173, which was finishing its flight test program and was about to be declassified and grounded. in fact, I believe that the V-173 made its last flight on July 30, '47. I have seen footage of the real XF5U-1 in high-speed taxi tests, and I interviewed Charles Zimmerman a few years ago (the designer), and he did admit that it made hops, but no real flights. After all , the plane was designed to take off at 30 mph or so, so it would almost be a shock if it _hadn't_ taken off. But I would swear that it never left Stratford. - Joel [See Joel's article on the Midland, MI 1947 trace case in the current International UFO Report.] The V-173 and XF5U-1 were mentioned extensively during the 1947 wave. Several people, including Walter Winchell pointed to the Flying Flapjack as the answer to UFO wave. The V-173 made a short flight in Connecticut at a 1947 airshow. On the 2d of July 1947, the Bridgeport, Connecticut POST ran the following article: 'SAUCERS' ARE SIMILAR TO VOUGHT FLYING WING Whatever those strange flying objects repeatedly report in western skies these days may be ther're definitely not carbon copies of Chance Vought Aircraft's "flying flapjack," full-scale flying model of the XF5U-1, an experimental Navy fighter of radical "flying wing" design. Matter of fact, except for one aerial jaunt to Floyd Bennett Field, the V-173, hit of an air show ----- at Bridgeport's municipal airport last month to climax Chance Vought's 30th anniversary celebration, has never been away from its home base at the Stratford plant. Latest report on strange objects in the western skies was provided yesterday by Richard Rankin, veteran Pacific Coast pilot, who said he saw the "flying saucers" over California, the Associated Press reported. Completely shameless, I would introduce these 1947 sightings from my Preliminary Report and question if the XF5U-1 or any experimental aircraft at the time could account for them. Page 19-20, Bryon Savage, a pilot and businessman's sighting in Oklahoma City, OK of a shiny silvery object flying a terrific rate of speed. (Project SIGN/Grudge Incident 82) Page 66-67, Richard Rankin, the famous pilot's sighting of 14 June 1947, over Barkersfield, California saw not only one but 10 objects which he at first took to be the Flying Flapjack. How there could be a formation of XF5U-1's that could not continue in the testing program for lack of money would be a good story. (Project SIGN/Grudge Incident 29) Page 84, Two Phillips Petroleum pilots flying enroute to Bartlesville, OK, on 6 July 1947, at the Kansas-Colorado border encountered one after another during 15 minute period revolving metal 9 disc-shaped objects as big as a hanger door rushing toward their plane at speeds they were not able to clock. Pages 104, 183-185 Two pilots on the staff of "Southern Wings" magazine on 11 July 1947 over High Point, North Carolina encountered a huge red object that with flames coming out from the bottom. As they turned in the object's direction it sped off. Pages 203, 207, Dave Johnson's sighting of a dark object following a step ascension course near Meridian, Idaho on 9 July 1947 (Project SIGN/Grudge Incident 83) Pages 114-5, August 1947 sighting reported by Lt Commander Tex Witherspoon at Coffeyville, Kansas during an airshow (erroneous located at Pittsburg, Kansas in the UFO Evidence.) Page 144-145, August 26 1947 sighting from a postplane of a greenish rhombiod and investigated by the Swedish Defense Staff. ("1947 Reports from Sweden and Scandinavia" by Anders Liljergren) Page 199, August 19, 1947, the fourth sighting from a United Airlines planes in a six week period was reported by two pilots over Mountain Home, Idaho. Two objects like skit targets flew under the plane flying at 8,000 feet. The co-pilot clocked the objects at over 900 mph. These sightings by pilots and aviation people at widely scattered points do not point to some secret aircraft. Do we have test aircraft in 1947 flying the airways below airliners flying at more than the speed of sound?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Lynda Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:50:44 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:11:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >Date: 11 November 1998 10:46 >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:20:27 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project SIGN Research Release >>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:32:20 -0000 ><snip> >>So we are not especially interested in theorizing and we are in >>the process of making further FOIA requests based upon the >>numerous technical documents now in our possession. >Glad to hear that you're not going to get into theorizing on the >basis of annecdotal evidence, and will be searching for >additional FOIA information on this subject. I would be most >interested in knowing the source of the FOIA documents if they >aren't coming from the "sanitized" archives though. >Steve Perhaps all that nice grant money from whomever would not be forthcoming if FUFOR got into the truth about discs - ie; classified aircraft. If we had a tenth of the money you guys appear to have then we'd be much further along. But the truth does not appear to sell; only fantasy and pseudo-science does. FOIA documents are just ONE way of getting to the bottom of the truth. Just as in the UK where the PRO gives out certain documents (only) the same is the case in the US. Note that our previous requests for information on 'Project Y' specifically have met with no success NOT because there is no information to give - we already have pages of documents on 'Project Y' which are clearly but a fraction of the whole - but because too much disclosure will let the genie out of the bottle and there would be some embarrassing admissions to deal with...... But you, not unlike your colleagues, have not and will not answer the points we're making and this is because we are on the right track. In a desperate and utterly ludicrous attempt to pigeon-hole our research I note that it is now designated "The Secret Weapon Theory". It ain't no theory; it is Secret Weapon Fact as the detailed history of certain older black projects indicate. No doubt back in the late 1980s you would have been denying the existence of the F-117A!! Just in case you think that just flying disc technologies are kept under wraps it might be of interest to note that Lockheed's Gusto programme still has classified elements - as do many other similar efforts. Unlike most US researchers I don't have a constituency to play to, an audience to appease or a rich backer to satisfy. The evidence we are amassing shows several things; 1 - The blindness of too many (not all) Ufologists and their pseudo-religious fantasies about 'first contact' and aliens. 2 - Their belief that the official USAF response to "UFO" sightings, most of which were explainable, was a cover for the activity of 'ET craft' within our atmosphere. 3 - If not ET craft then saucer sightings that were somehow evidence of people seeing saucers when there were none (PSH) - which is quite ridiculous. 4 - The ease with which the USAF and US Navy intelligence people were able to pull the wool over researchers eyes - and how they are still doing so. 5 - The complete inability of the UFO research community to sensibly come to terms with black projects without going into the realms of fantasy (Tesla technology, anti-gravity systems, Nazi occult magic, time travel etc. etc.). And more besides. But as they say, the most important revelations are the most painful. What we are seeing here is an attempt by what might be termed the 'UFO establishment', representatives of the groups who have benefited from ignoring the classified aircraft/black projects angle, to bury our research. But it won't work. People are sick and tired of this alien BS and they want the truth. That is why just last week numerous radio stations and newspapers in the UK reported the release of my latest report into this subject and why there are at least two TV companies interested in producing documentaries on this subject. And STILL no answer to my points about the 'operational' XF5U-1, the 1948 AS Weyl article, my postings on Papoose Lake, Project Silver Bug, P724, WS606A and B, P1794, Operation Paperclip, the work of Miethe in the USA and so and so on........ Why is it that at every UFO Conference, except two in the UK this year, there is NEVER anybody invited to talk about this aspect? Our research doesn't answer everything, but it answers a great deal.... Tim Matthews. ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update 11-11-98 From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:59:49 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:19:25 -0500 Subject: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update 11-11-98 Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update November 11, 1998 Main web Site: www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 1998 Updates: www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1998 ____________________________ CANDO#2, SPY HILL, WAPELLA, TRYON REPORTS UPDATED Diagrams have now been added on the web site for these reports. Lowville will also be updated soon. Report listings are on the 1998 page (URL above). ____________________________ OTHER WEB SITE UPDATES The Scientific Evidence, Related Anomalies and Phenomena and other pages have now been added to and / or updated on the web site. ____________________________ Web site updated November 9. ____________________________ For further information or correspondence, contact: Paul Anderson Director CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Web Site: www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 1998 Updates: www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1998 Director MILLENNIUM RESEARCH INSTITUTE Web: mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/ (under revision) Representative BLT RESEARCH, INC. Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:40:16 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:36:34 -0500 Subject: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell Hi everyone, Below is a message I got from Tony Craddock of CSETI about some new alien photos on Art Bell's web site. This dead alien at least looks a lot more real than the clay(?) model alien found in Timothy Good's latest book and also on CSETI's web site. Have a look for yourself and let us know what you think. It seems to be authentic to me, especially since the dead alien's body is resting on what looks like more Roswell UFO crash wreckage. ;o) Nick Balaskas ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:45:37 -0800 From: "A.J. Craddock" <webmaster@cseti.org> To: webmaster@cseti.org Subject: Photos of ET on Art Bell/ CSETI Website FYI Art Bell is breaking an interesting story concerning a PhD in psychology, Dr. Jonathon Reed. Dr. Reed was supposedly walking his dog in the woods in Washington when he heard the dog getting into a fight. He then found the dog attacking a small ET, which killed the dog, which was attacking it. Dr. Reed then clubbed the ET to death, and took the body home. Dr. Reed's house was subsequently broken into, and the body stolen. There were other people involved, one of whom is now dead, and the other on the run. Dr. Reed is also on the run. He did however send some photos of the dead ET and the craft to Art Bell, which are displayed on his Website at http://www.artbell.com/aliens4.html together with Art's audio. There is also apparently good video and an audiotape of the ET's noises. A reminder, also, that photos of an alleged live ET were forwarded by a correspondent in Italy and are displayed on CSETI's crash list at http://www.cseti.org/crashes/207.htm The photos of this creature are also featured in Timothy Good's latest book - "Alien Base", only currently available in the UK. Regards Tony Craddock Web Administrator CSETI http://www.cseti.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:01:01 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:36:54 -0500 Subject: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body This has all the earmarks of a contrived story with too many inconsistencies. The Aliens are here, but they didn't show up for this photo session. A "Dr. Jonathon Reed" claims it happened about 2 years ago. He was hiking in the woods somewhere in Washington State with his dog and lost track of her while he was contemplating nature. A loud commotion is heard nearby. He arrives at the scene too late to stop the alien from killing his dog. The alien allegedly killed his dog because the dog was "attacking" the alien. I find this very implausible. Domestic dogs and most small animals are terrified of aliens and usually run away. A frightened dog may standback a short distance and bark at a strange looking intruder. They don't attack unless provoked. Aliens, at least a Grey, would not simply kill a dog. They probably would immobilize it somehow. Unless it was a Chupacabra, which it doesn't look like from the alleged photographs. The good Dr. Reed comes to his dogs aid, sees the black, diamond-shaped UFO hovering, and the alien killing his dog. Does he film the UFO first, and then get a large stick and beat the alien over the head to death? Did the alien just stand there and do nothing after he had just killed the dog? Why didn't the bad alien attack or abduct Dr. Reed? That hovering ufo he allegedly had time to take pictures of troubles me. Is this a case of reverse-missing time? Were the saucer and alien frozen in time by the angry doctor? Non sequitor here, there had to be another alien in the craft, piloting it. Why didn't the other alien help the one who was being clubbed to death or just zip away and escape? So much for alien comradery and the Hippocratic oath. Dr. Reed took the alien body home (did he bury his dog in the woods?). Soon afterwards the alien's body was stolen, but not the photos. How sloppy for the MIB's and how very convenient for Dr. Reed! This all a very familiar scenario. It is text book P.T. Barnum! Snake Oil 101. It's any easy sleight of truth to explain away the never-existing physical evidence. But "let's go to the the video tape" and take a closer look at the photos! The photo of the black diamond-shaped ufo looks like a fake. The scale and perspective is all wrong. Look at the surrounding plants and shrubs. You could't fit a grey squirrel in that thing! It even looks fake. I examined the edges around the ship in Photoshop. They are much too jagged and do not blend naturally into the background. The alien photos are not too easy to dismiss, though. They look good but it could be a cleverly fabricated dummy. Hard to tell from just the photos. The "red" blood is odd. I thought greys didn't have red blood, just a pale fluid. The whole thing looks suspicious and contrived and appears to be nothing more than a custom tailored hoax. The presentation on the Art Bell show by Dr. Reed's agent Robert Raith, seemed contrived. Even Art Bell had a tone in his voice that hinted at disbelief of the story. Dr. Reed is making an appearance on the Art Bell show tonight. Watch for announcements of Dr. Jonathan Reed on the radio talk show circuit. He'll soon be raking it in, hawking his book and videotape. Caveat Lector! But I guess some people just enjoy being taken in and clubbed to death with obvious hoaxes! Ignatius Graffeo Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News: UFOSEEK... For the Source! www.ufoseek.org "Pictures of SETI Signals from unknown engineer in the UK" Contact1450 - Mirror Site: UPDATED (since Nov.3) http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/ ----------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:04:36 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:40:34 -0500 Subject: Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' >Date: 11 November 1998 16:19 >From: Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug <KONAWS@statoil.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:01:30 +0100 >Subject: Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' >>Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 20:06:53 -0800 >>From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' ><snip> >>It is alleged that the Muroc sightings were either the >>"Flying Flap Jack," XF5U-1, or a jet powered advanced >>development of a similar aircraft. No proof which can be >>independently checked is offered. ><snip> >Hi List, >Just for your info., here are some URLs showing the XF5U-1: >http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/~ortmann/f5u.htm >http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/~ortmann/f5u-b.jpg >http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/~ortmann/v173-a.gif >Regards, >AWS Amazingly enough the XF5U-1 was supposed to be transported to Muroc in 1947 for testing. So I wonder what the 8th July sighting was? All this nonsense about who would/wouldn't have known is ridiculous. Jan Aldrich and co don't know, although AIR 100-203-79 states that the aircraft was 'operational' - a fact supported by witness testimony, contemporary aviation researchers, intelligence documents and by the Pickett testimony. Not to mention that this cast of Intelligence officers whom UFO researchers appear to feel are/were always the arbiters of truth (when we could at best expect perhaps the odd snippet to appear in an intelligence document to be of use) lied constantly about things as mundane as the U-2 spyplane and Project Y. Do not forget that ATIC are proven liars; from 1947 Wright-Pat was, by its' own admission, doing various tests on disc type planforms and from 1954 were actively pursuing the second strand of US disc technology; Project Silver Bug/Project Y/Y2. (The other strand being the US Navy work on 'pancakes'). And yet we are told that 'ATIC knew nothing' and that it's personnel, when interviewed (or their not very knowledgeable relatives were interviewed) said that they 'didn't know anything' about flying discs! Rubbish! The majority of people involved in black projects don't even tell their wifes what they've been up to at work - let alone sons and daughters. There are a few exceptions and often new information comes along very late in the day. Hopefully all this will make it into a second book - although I am told by some publishers that the public want aliens and sci-fi - nothing else..... Tim Matthews. ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:07:52 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:43:28 -0500 Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >Date: 11 November 1998 16:17 >From: Robert Irving <RobIrving@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:31:39 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:28:07 +0100 >>From: Andy Denne - <aura@telekabel2.nl> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >Andy, >>...M15??? Black helicopters??? Did I mention even _one_ of >>those in my posting? >No, but the story as told by you originates from someone whose >claims of government harrassment are legendary - and, I might >add, untrue. It is no suprise that whatever mundane root the >story has, it branches into a tale of dark suppression. My >comment was not aimed directly at you. >Er, I didn't mention 'black' helicopters either. I wrote 'army' >helicopters. >>My concern is mostly the fact that it could be getting harder >>obtaining aerial photographs of crop formations, and that again >>will make research more difficult. >I think it's safe to assume that will not be the case. If it >were you might be more concerned by a sharp decrease in >formations as a result. Btw, what exactly is the nature of >'research' into photographs of patterns? >Rob Not to mention the unfortunate fact that some helicopters are black for simple operational reasons unrelated to the New World Order or the UN troops training in my back garden. Of course, hardly anybody points out that the UK helicopter HQ is down the road from most of the formations and that the whole area is used for training..... In any case - they're only photographing the work of humankind........ Tim Matthews
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:18:28 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:46:36 -0500 Subject: Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' >Date: 11 November 1998 16:09 >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 02:53:47 -0800 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' >>Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 20:06:53 -0800 >>From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' >>Recently, the Muroc Air Base sightings of 8 July 1947 >>have figured into the "disc plane" theory. >>http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/muroc47.htm >>It is alleged that the Muroc sightings were either the >>"Flying Flap Jack," XF5U-1, or a jet powered advanced >>development of a similar aircraft. No proof which can be >>independently checked is offered. >>Aviation historians stated that the XF5U-1 only underwent >>limited tests and did not flying any extensive course in 1947. >>In 1947 it was reported in the newspapers that the "Flying >>Flap Jack" had supposed superior flight characteristics if >>exploited. >>There is no evidence that it was further exploited! If the >>"disc plane" advocates believe it was, they simple have to >>produce records of such tests and serial numbers and official >>records of such aircraft. >In the 1970s I worked for the National Air and Space Museum >restoring historical aircraft and spacecraft at their Paul >Garber preservation, restoration, and storage facility. We had >the XF5U in storage there. For those who want to obtain aircraft >history records outside of the National Archives, I strongly >suggest contacting the museum, where they have possibly the most >extensive aviation library and the best aircraft historians on >the planet. >Josh Goldstein Looking at the official history is hardly of any use or benefit in our search for classified aircraft programme and I wonder whether you were asking people for the serial numbers of the RS-71/SR-71 'Blackbird' before it was made public by Johnson or the F-117A or the B-2 in the late 1980s. As Kelly Johnson and Ben Rich admit, they worked on more programmes than have been declassified..... Tim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:57:19 PST Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:51:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 12:36:57 PST >>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> >>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:19:05 -0800 >>Willy Ley astonomer, rocketeer, Jew. Willy is one of the great <snip> >I had not heard before that Ley was Jewish, which would not >matter at all if, of course, such things had not mattered >profoundly to Nazi murderers. Are you sure of this? From what I >understand, Ley fled Germany not because he feared Hitler's >ethnic cleansing but because he thought the Nazis might come >down on him for publishing rocketry articles outside Germany. If >you know better, I'd be happy to be corrected. >Jerry Clark Jerry (& List), Could we please agree to not (as in _never_ again) use that Orwellian phrase of 'ethnic cleansing' in place of of the truely _dirty_ and barbaric behaviour that it was then in Europe and, continues to be today in other countries - genocide. Is that too much to ask for, in this List at least, when we are trying to find truths in the Orwellian speak of and behaviour of so many governments and agencies around the world - also out of respect for those who been on the receiving end of such treatment? For your urgent consideration! Regards, Leanne.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: UFO Pop Quiz... From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:38:50 -0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 04:11:33 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Pop Quiz... >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:00:05 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO Pop Quiz... >Hello, list... >I've some questions for everyone that's been on my tiny little >mind for quite some time. I have no real position on this; >merely curious what any of you might think. >Here goes.... >Question #1) >Does anyone know if the number of night sightings of UFOs is >greater than day sightings. If so, then what is the approximate >ratio? Well, I'm sure that the number of night sightings are greater than day sightings, but are some times confused with airplanes, stars... The ratio, could be... 1 day for 3 night. >Question #2) >If the number of night sightings is disproportionately larger, >then what do you feel the reason is? Well, they must like the night-life...hehehehe :-)...seriously, maybe people have the habit of looking to the night sky. >Question #3) >If the number of day sightings is disproportionately larger, >then what do you feel the reason is? >Question #4) >If the reason for more frequent night visitations is because the >ETs in question are trying to avoid detection, then why do they >bother leaving their "running lights" on, thereby making >themselves highly visible? These nocturnal lights can be caused by the magnetic energy of the craft and misidentified as one of our aircraft... >Question #5) >If the ET's in question leave their "running lights" on because >they want to be noticed, then why don't they show themselves >during the day when detection would be easier? Maybe they are there all the time, but it is possible for us to see them. >Silly questions. Thanks for your time. Don't say that Thiago Ticchetti * Eles est=E3o aqui * ICQ - 22841973
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: Major UFO Flap In September From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:40:34 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 04:24:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Major UFO Flap In September >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:59:50 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Major UFO Flap In September >>the same time that the vast armada of bright Iridium satellites >>was fully deployed up above us. They are so bright that local >>astronomical society members go out regularly to watch their >>occasional superflashes. These occur when the satellite panels >>reflect sunlight at just the right angle for a given location. >>Its quite impressive, if you're at the right place at the right >>time. >>Just an odd thought, >> -Brian Cuthbertson >Dear Brian... it makes a whole lot of sense to ALWAYS look for >down-to-earth and natural phenomena to explain the strange and >seemingly unnatural or extraordinary. <snip> >Take the possibility that the "armada" to which you refer, is >guilty as charged for impersonating UFO's... how many sats are >there up there? How many sightings have there been and in what >part of the sky? How many of these were dancing to the Lambada >as opposed to sitting there in a nice neat orbit? How many were >carrying navigation lights? >How many had a solid shape and form which could be observed? How >many actually came close enough to the ground and to the >observer to be easily recognized as to shape, size and form? >How many had little slant-eyed guys floating along with you down >some dark corridor? How many times have you seen a UFO? You >know, one that you could honestly say, "Gee, what the hell is >that?" It isn't plane or train or flying taxicab, nor is it >conventional in it's appearance or performance! >If you've seen one, you will never be the same person. >Never. >If you perceive that you were IN one you will never be the same. >Never. >If you fit into either of those categories, now listen up, this >is important, >_You_will_never,_never,_ever,_think_twice_about_what_it_ >is,_what_they_are_and_what_has_been_done_to_you_! >Never. >Just an odd thought. >Jim Mortellaro Hello Jim, I've been an amateur astronomer since 1969 or so. I've spent countless hours watching night skies here in Texas with my naked eye, binoculars, and through all sorts of telescopes. In all that time I've never seen anything odd. Some wonderful eclipses, some awesome meteor showers, some fantastic views of the great red spot on Jupiter, but nothing yet of the sort you describe. So I don't fit into either of your catagories. And thus apparently unlike yourself, I suppose I'm the same old person I always was. But I have talked personally to credible folks who have seen them, and one who was apparently taken aboard one in Tiawan in the 1950s, whien it landed behind her village on the north coast. So I must struggle in an "intellectual" sense to understand the phenomenon, based on my appreciation of the vastness of the sky above our heads, the age of the cosmos, and the realization that as an "advanced" civilization, we've only had the electric light bulb for, what, a hundred years? A hundred years - my goodness we are advanced! But no, I haven't "been there, done that" in the sense you describe. So I suppose I remain one of the ignorant masses with respect to having a "true" appreciation of the phenomenon. My apologies. Regards,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles From: RobIrving <RobIrving@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 04:18:24 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:06:41 -0500 Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 02:56:20 -0800 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles Josh, >How about asking the CAA? That's a great idea, Josh. On whose dime though?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Have Blue, Will Travel From: Jakes Louw <LOUWJE@telkom.co.za> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:19:43 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:03:50 -0500 Subject: Have Blue, Will Travel Greetings Being severily "Net challenged" these days, I need some info: Was their a significant increase in sightings in the Nevada/Tonopah area in 1977/8 while HB 1001 and HB 1002 were being test-flown? Messrs. Aldrich, Matthews, anybody else? Regards, louwje@telkom.co.za
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:22:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:10:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:50:44 -0000 >>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:20:27 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >>>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project SIGN Research Release >>>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:32:20 -0000 >><snip> >>>So we are not especially interested in theorizing and we are in >>>the process of making further FOIA requests based upon the >>>numerous technical documents now in our possession. >>Glad to hear that you're not going to get into theorizing on the >>basis of annecdotal evidence, and will be searching for >>additional FOIA information on this subject. I would be most >>interested in knowing the source of the FOIA documents if they >>aren't coming from the "sanitized" archives though. >>Steve >Perhaps all that nice grant money from whomever would not be >forthcoming if FUFOR got into the truth about discs - ie; >classified aircraft. If we had a tenth of the money you guys >appear to have then we'd be much further along. But the truth >does not appear to sell; only fantasy and pseudo-science does. Nice phrasing. Doesn't say much of interest though. Like most who aren't directly involved in the effort, you don't know FUFOR's structure and how the funding is allocated. The organization is not rich, and often relies on specific funding sources for specific projects that in turn rely on the non-profit status of FUFOR to obtain tax-exempt status. A proposal for a large outlay of funds often comes with a recommended source for the funds, which had been arranged ahead of time. FUFOR is also just a part of the UFO Coalition, which is really providing the direction that most of the major research is now taking. FUFOR also raises a limited amount of funds through the sale of materials that its funded research has generated. Have you proof that any of that material is promoting "fantasy and pseudo-science"? Please let me know and I'll pass it along to them. But let's get to some specifics and avoid the rhetoric. >FOIA documents are just ONE way of getting to the bottom of the >truth. Just as in the UK where the PRO gives out certain >documents (only) the same is the case in the US. Note that our >previous requests for information on 'Project Y' specifically >have met with no success NOT because there is no information to >give - we already have pages of documents on 'Project Y' which >are clearly but a fraction of the whole - but because too much >disclosure will let the genie out of the bottle and there would >be some embarrassing admissions to deal with...... >But you, not unlike your colleagues, have not and will not >answer the points we're making and this is because we are on the >right track. In a desperate and utterly ludicrous attempt to >pigeon-hole our research I note that it is now designated "The >Secret Weapon Theory". Have you published your material? Is there a central location where your arguments can be viewed along with the supporting documentation? All I've been able to find is disjointed statements with numerous documents referenced that aren't available for verification and review, along with announcements of future appearances to "set the record straight" on various forums. Just exactly which one of us is out on a mission preaching their "gospel"? Here we go: >It ain't no theory; it is Secret Weapon Fact as the detailed >history of certain older black projects indicate. No doubt back >in the late 1980s you would have been denying the existence of >the F-117A!! Just in case you think that just flying disc >technologies are kept under wraps it might be of interest to >note that Lockheed's Gusto programme still has classified >elements - as do many other similar efforts. >Unlike most US researchers I don't have a constituency to play >to, an audience to appease or a rich backer to satisfy. The >evidence we are amassing shows several things; >1 - The blindness of too many (not all) Ufologists and their >pseudo-religious fantasies about 'first contact' and aliens. >2 - Their belief that the official USAF response to "UFO" >sightings, most of which were explainable, was a cover for the >activity of 'ET craft' within our atmosphere. >3 - If not ET craft then saucer sightings that were somehow >evidence of people seeing saucers when there were none (PSH) - >which is quite ridiculous. >4 - The ease with which the USAF and US Navy intelligence people >were able to pull the wool over researchers eyes - and how they >are still doing so. 5 - The complete inability of the UFO >research community to sensibly come to terms with black projects >without going into the realms of fantasy (Tesla technology, >anti-gravity systems, Nazi occult magic, time travel etc. etc.). >And more besides. >But as they say, the most important revelations are the most >painful. >What we are seeing here is an attempt by what might be termed >the 'UFO establishment', representatives of the groups who have >benefited from ignoring the classified aircraft/black projects >angle, to bury our research. >But it won't work. People are sick and tired of this alien BS >and they want the truth. That is why just last week numerous >radio stations and newspapers in the UK reported the release of >my latest report into this subject and why there are at least >two TV companies interested in producing documentaries on this >subject. >And STILL no answer to my points about the 'operational' XF5U-1, >the 1948 AS Weyl article, my postings on Papoose Lake, Project >Silver Bug, P724, WS606A and B, P1794, Operation Paperclip, the >work of Miethe in the USA and so and so on........ >Why is it that at every UFO Conference, except two in the UK >this year, there is NEVER anybody invited to talk about this >aspect? Our research doesn't answer everything, but it answers a >great deal.... >Tim Matthews. Yada, yada, yada, . . . . . Another few television programs to help fill up the schedule for The Learning Channel during "Alien Week", and they'll tell us the truth this time. . . . .Hmmmmmmmmmm. I think that Jan and a few others have tried to respond to some of your gueries, and of course there's more information yet to come from the search of those "sanitized" archives (again, I sense some confusion regarding the classification and declassification process in the U.S., but . . . well, nevermind). Tim, I think your research has great value, and truly hope you continue it and help to show us the truth. Those who make pronouncements and fail to put all the supporting evidence on the table set off alarm bells for me, and your statements on this are doing so very loudly. You may well have put some of that "evidence" up for all to see, but an argument (or debate) on the Internet doesn't compare to an organized release of your position and the supporting evidence. Let me make it clear that I do not speak for FUFOR, but have discussed some of this with the Executive Committee, which I meet with every month. While I believe that you've had contact with Jan Aldrich, I've not seen evidence of official contact with any of the UFO Coalition members. But it really depends in part on what you are trying to accomplish with your research, and where you intend on going with it. You may consider these groups to be tainted, which is certainly one point of view, and you may not want to soil your hands. That's okay. However, it's somewhat ironic that many of those involved with those three groups feel the same way about getting into debates on the Internet, which is why many of them aren't represented here. Steve PS- While I expect a response, I will not become involved in a long debate on this. I'm far too busy making up evidence and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:33:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:14:51 -0500 Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:07:52 -0000 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >>Date: 11 November 1998 16:17 >>From: Robert Irving <RobIrving@aol.com> >>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:31:39 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >>>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:28:07 +0100 >>>From: Andy Denne - <aura@telekabel2.nl> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >>Andy, >>>...M15??? Black helicopters??? Did I mention even _one_ of >>>those in my posting? >>No, but the story as told by you originates from someone whose >>claims of government harrassment are legendary - and, I might >>add, untrue. It is no suprise that whatever mundane root the >>story has, it branches into a tale of dark suppression. My >>comment was not aimed directly at you. >>Er, I didn't mention 'black' helicopters either. I wrote 'army' >>helicopters. >>>My concern is mostly the fact that it could be getting harder >>>obtaining aerial photographs of crop formations, and that again >>>will make research more difficult. >>I think it's safe to assume that will not be the case. If it >>were you might be more concerned by a sharp decrease in >>formations as a result. Btw, what exactly is the nature of >>'research' into photographs of patterns? >>Rob >Not to mention the unfortunate fact that some helicopters are black for >simple operational reasons unrelated to the New World Order or the UN >troops training in my back garden. >Of course, hardly anybody points out that the UK helicopter HQ is down the >road from most of the formations and that the whole area is used for >training..... >In any case - they're only photographing the work of humankind........ >Tim Matthews >---------- Ah, I see, so we should ask those helicopter-dudes for pictures of the new formations then, ;-) [Relax, I'm not serious!]. Tim you're even making it worse, I was talking about how purely financial aspects (Read my previous post), then Rob added helicopters and M15, and now you start with the New world order! Both of you obviously assume I'm in to paranoid conspiracies just because I asked a question. Strange... best wishes, Andy Denne (A.U.R.A.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:19:09 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:19:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:45:37 -0800 >From: A.J. Craddock <webmaster@cseti.org> >To: webmaster@cseti.org >Subject: Photos of ET on Art Bell/ CSETI Website >FYI Art Bell is breaking an interesting story concerning a PhD >in psychology, Dr. Jonathon Reed. >Dr. Reed was supposedly walking his dog in the woods in >Washington when he heard the dog getting into a fight. He then >found the dog attacking a small ET, which killed the dog, which >was attacking it. <snip> >Tony Craddock >Web Administrator >CSETI >http://www.cseti.org Tony Craddock: You need to be suspicious of ANY Ph.D. in psychology! Not likely to be up to any good! James Bond Johnson, Ph.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien From: Diana Botsford <ddbh@email.msn.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:40:48 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:26:10 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien >From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:01:01 EST >To: Updates@globalserve.net, >Subject: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body Snatchers >The photo of the black diamond-shaped ufo looks like a fake. The >scale and perspective is all wrong. Look at the surrounding >plants and shrubs. You could't fit a grey squirrel in that >thing! It even looks fake. I examined the edges around the ship >in Photoshop. They are much too jagged and do not blend >naturally into the background. The alien photos are not too easy >to dismiss, though. They look good but it could be a cleverly >fabricated dummy. Hard to tell from just the photos. The "red" >blood is odd. I thought greys didn't have red blood, just a pale >fluid. There's a much simplier way to tell this is fabricated and you don't even need to put it in 'photoshop' to tell. Look at the large rock to camera right. You can see the sun shining down on it. Time of the photo was most likely somewhere between 11 and 1. Pretty strong sun too by the looks of that rock. So, if the sun was directly overhead - it would have been beaming down on the 'ship' and thus created a shadow on the ground below. :-) For those interested, I will be appearing on the Laura Lee Netcast this evening at 8pm, PT (http://www.lauralee.com) to discuss simple ways to determine if a photo is a hoax or not. We'll discuss this picture in addition to the Mexico City footage, Gulf Breeze, the famous Mars Pathfinder meets Mothership shot that circulated around the net last year in addition to photos that still have ever possibilty of being genuine such as the Trent photo in McMinnville, Oregon. Folks, the truth is out there - and it could very genuinely be ET. But there is NO way we are going to get any closer to sorting things out when hoaxes like this come in to widen the gap between reality and lies. Diana Botsford Publisher/Community Manager UFO Community on MSN http://communities.msn.com/ufo - - - - - - "To follow knowledge like a sinking star, Beyond the utmost bound of human thought . . To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:30:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:31:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:50:44 -0000 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >>Date: 11 November 1998 10:46 >>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:20:27 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release <snip> >What we are seeing here is an attempt by what might be termed >the 'UFO establishment', representatives of the groups who have >benefited from ignoring the classified aircraft/black projects >angle, to bury our research. >But it won't work. People are sick and tired of this alien BS >and they want the truth. That is why just last week numerous >radio stations and newspapers in the UK reported the release of >my latest report into this subject and why there are at least >two TV companies interested in producing documentaries on this >subject. <snip> Tim, Just re-routing this message I sent you on the list on the 10-01-1998 and to which you did not bother to respond. The thread was: The New Nazi-ET Lie? Tim, What I can't figure out is how come silent-running vehicles, invisible to radar, designed for atmospheric and space flight, capable of hovering and stationary and vertical flight, that reach tremendous speeds and acceleration (from 0 to 1500 knots in seconds), are able to outpace any known conventional craft and are almost invulnerable to enemy attacks have been kept in the cupboard for more than 50 years ? Do you have any incentive on that ? Maybe your: >But as they say, the most important revelations are the most >painful. provides a start of an answer. Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles From: Rob Irving <RobIrving@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:49:46 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:35:07 -0500 Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: No More UK Aerial Photographs Of Crop Circles >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:07:52 -0000 Tim, >Not to mention the unfortunate fact that some helicopters are >black for simple operational reasons unrelated to the New World >Order or the UN troops training in my back garden. As a matter of interest - God knows we need it in this thread - how far off would you guess a dark khaki camouflaged helicopter needs to be before it appears black? I suppose it depends...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: And furthermore.....! From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:13:59 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:59:35 -0500 Subject: Re: And furthermore.....! >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:19:56 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: And furthermore.....! >Each and every one of you are so full of bull dingy it isn't >even funny. I have never heard more claptrap, more insanity >or more culpable stupidity in all my life. You are all >WRONG. How can you be so stupid? I am shocked >and surprised that you actually wrote that. What are you >anyway, some kind of cultist or what? >And in conculsion. > >_JUST DON'T LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN_! You jerk! Jim But I disagree, I just don't know how you could say that because....... --- In an infinite universe inifinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 12 Re: Paul Dore Implicated as SETI Hoaxer From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:59:00 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:13:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Paul Dore Implicated as SETI Hoaxer Dejanews documents implicating Paul Dore as the SETI Hoaxer: ( easy to follow links at website. see url below ) 1. List of Seticontact postings 2. First Seticontact post advertising the Geocities Website. 3. List of Paul Dore postings 4. Posting by Paul Dore on 11-7-98 showing his e-mail address and "Seticontact" name on same e-mail. from Paul Dore's 11-03-98 Dejanews post: www.web-computing.demon.co.uk "I can categorically state, I know knothing of this EQ Pegasi business. Although I am getting plenty of offers !! ) I must admit I find it a bit of a laugh how so many people have been taken in. The report has even appeared on the BBC web site. But to repeat the engineer in question is not me.." _____________ Latest News on this case from our Mirror site.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:16:42 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:33:09 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien >From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:01:01 EST >To: Updates@globalserve.net, >Subject: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body Snatchers >This has all the earmarks of a contrived story with too many >inconsistencies. The Aliens are here, but they didn't show up >for this photo session. >A "Dr. Jonathon Reed" claims it happened about 2 years ago. He >was hiking in the woods somewhere in Washington State with his >dog and lost track of her while he was contemplating nature. There is a residential listing for a "Jonathon Reed" in Tacoma Wa, don't know if this is the same person. Couldn't find a listing in Washington State for Robert Raith. According to Raith, Dr. Reed is "on the run" so it could be an old listing, Reed still has his resi- dence in Tacoma, but is not home, or it is just not the same person. At the end of the 11-11-98 interview with Reed and Raith, a contact address was given in San Diego. Now this is close to the LA/Holly- wood special effects studios. Other bothersome aspects: 1. He didn't photograph or collect the remains of his dog (a white ash). 2. The alien revived several days later sealed in a freezer. The duo has agreed to do another show with Art next week to answer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Camp Borden and UFOs From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:56:00 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:02:21 -0500 Subject: Camp Borden and UFOs Hi Errol, Last Sunday on 'Strange Days...Indeed' I heard about how two people using a Ouiji Board got to see some UFOs along with soldiers from Camp Borden. Although this story did not scare me as it did with one of your callers, the connection between UFOs and the 'occult' reminded me of many very similar stories by Wilbert Smith and others in the Ottawa Flying Saucer Club newsletter, 'Topside'. Maybe there is a now forgotten reason why UFO books at one time in the past could only be found in the Occult Section of bookstores... I contacted Don Fougere, an amateur astronomer friend of mine, who is in the Canadian military and will be based at Camp Borden soon, for a few months. If you can provide me with some more information about this story you had on your radio show (date and location of sightings, etc.), Don will try to get confirmation of this UFO event or may discover that it was something less unusal like reservists participating in a scheduled military exercise which involved aircraft, flares, etc. He will also check through Camp Borden's newsletters for me, to see if anything out of the ordinary was reported the night of this UFO sighting. Is this UFO story related to a call I got about a UFO over a Barrie radio station tower? The feedback I got from the people here who have heard your new radio show, either live or recorded on audio cassette, seems very favourable. After catching some of Rob McConnell's and Art Bell's shows that same Sunday night, I must say that I enjoyed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:32:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:39:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:40:16 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell >Hi everyone, >Below is a message I got from Tony Craddock of CSETI about some >new alien photos on Art Bell's web site. This dead alien at >least looks a lot more real than the clay(?) model alien found >in Timothy Good's latest book and also on CSETI's web site. >Have a look for yourself and let us know what you think. It >seems to be authentic to me, especially since the dead alien's >body is resting on what looks like more Roswell UFO crash >wreckage. ;o) >Nick Balaskas Hi Nick, I did listen to the program, and it does sound interesting, the material that the alien is laying on is one of those survival, thermal type blankets. They will have another program next week. Reed said he had the negative to submit for examination and that the video has already been examined and it was determined that it hadn't been tampered with. After listening to the man I will definitely want to hear the rest of it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:16:20 +0100 (MET) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:44:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:50:44 -0000 >It ain't no theory; it is Secret Weapon Fact as the detailed >history of certain older black projects indicate. No doubt back >in the late 1980s you would have been denying the existence of >the F-117A!! Just in case you think that just flying disc >technologies are kept under wraps it might be of interest to >note that Lockheed's Gusto programme still has classified >elements - as do many other similar efforts. Hi Tim, Please enlighten us as to what the Gusto program is. (It may be that has come up on this list earlier, but in any case I missed it.) __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien From: michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:57:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:42:22 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien >From: Diana Botsford <ddbh@email.msn.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body Snatchers >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:40:48 -0600 >>From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:01:01 EST >>To: Updates@globalserve.net, >>Subject: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body Snatchers >>The photo of the black diamond-shaped ufo looks like a fake. The >>scale and perspective is all wrong. Look at the surrounding >>plants and shrubs. You could't fit a grey squirrel in that >>thing! It even looks fake. I examined the edges around the ship >>in Photoshop. They are much too jagged and do not blend >>naturally into the background. The alien photos are not too easy >>to dismiss, though. They look good but it could be a cleverly >>fabricated dummy. Hard to tell from just the photos. The "red" >>blood is odd. I thought greys didn't have red blood, just a pale >>fluid. >There's a much simplier way to tell this is fabricated and you >don't even need to put it in 'photoshop' to tell. Look at the >large rock to camera right. You can see the sun shining down on >it. Time of the photo was most likely somewhere between 11 and >1. Pretty strong sun too by the looks of that rock. >So, if the sun was directly overhead - it would have been >beaming down on the 'ship' and thus created a shadow on the >ground below. :-) Hi Diana, I have spent quite some time looking at this photograph, and for the life of me I can't find the large rock that you mentioned in your post. Would you kindly give some specific instructions at to where this large rock is in the picture. Of if you would, could you print it out on paper and mark it for me and fax it to, I would greatly appreciate it. Michael Hodges 540-483-1951
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:23:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:36:52 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien >From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:01:01 EST >To: Updates@globalserve.net, >Subject: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body Snatchers >This has all the earmarks of a contrived story with too many >inconsistencies. The Aliens are here, but they didn't show up >for this photo session. >The whole thing looks suspicious and contrived and appears to be >nothing more than a custom tailored hoax. The presentation on >the Art Bell show by Dr. Reed's agent Robert Raith, seemed >contrived. Even Art Bell had a tone in his voice that hinted at >disbelief of the story. Dr. Reed is making an appearance on the >Art Bell show tonight. Watch for announcements of Dr. Jonathan >Reed on the radio talk show circuit. He'll soon be raking it in, >hawking his book and videotape. Caveat Lector! But I guess some >people just enjoy being taken in and clubbed to death with >obvious hoaxes! >Ignatius Graffeo From your post, you indicated that you had not heard Dr. Reed on the Bell show with Robert Raith, and Whitley Strieber, so apparently you are able to look at this photo and make your determinations as to the whole thing being a hoax. This is one thing that concerns me a lot, there seems to be a lot of people that are able to determine that these things are hoaxes without seeing all the facts or bothering to find the facts first, which leads to a lot of confusion for a lot of people. I did listen to the show and at this point am not going to make any decisions until I know more about it. Dr. Reed did say that he had the negatives to the film and would submit them for analysis. He also stated that the video had been examined and was found to be authentic and not tampered with. Apparently there was not enough time on the show so they plan another
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 The Dore Bore From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:56:06 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:50:14 -0500 Subject: The Dore Bore >From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:59:00 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net, >Subject: Paul Dore Implicated as SETI Hoaxer >Dejanews documents implicating Paul Dore as the SETI Hoaxer: >( easy to follow links at website. see url below ) >1. List of Seticontact postings >2. First Seticontact post advertising the Geocities Website. >3. List of Paul Dore postings >4. Posting by Paul Dore on 11-7-98 showing his e-mail address > and "Seticontact" name on same e-mail. >from Paul Dore's 11-03-98 Dejanews post: >www.web-computing.demon.co.uk >"I can categorically state, I know knothing of this EQ Pegasi >business. Although I am getting plenty of offers !! ) >I must admit I find it a bit of a laugh how so many people have >been taken in. The report has even appeared on the BBC web site. >But to repeat the engineer in question is not me.." > _____________ >Latest News on this case from our Mirror site. >http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/hoaxer.html Source: Art Bell's Website, http://bbs.rowlandnet.com/cgi-bin/WebX?14@@.ee6c827/42 Stig ******* sysop - 03:54pm Nov 12, 1998 PST (#40 of 40) Keith Rowland Paul Dore responded to yesterday's allegations by David, and admits to faking the email address of the hoaxer in recent postings to USENET. With Paul's permission I post his official reply: Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:51:51 -0000 From: paul dore (pdore@web-computing.demon.co.uk) To: keithr@primenet.com Subject: RE: Me as the hoaxer Dear Mr Rowland, I deliberately posted a message onto the newsgroup with the return address as seticontact@deja-news.com Reason : Because I knew it would aggravate the real hoaxer and they would not resist publishing this fact to draw attention away from themselves. I also knew it would be tracable to my UK IP address so it would be obvious to anyone with any sense that it did not come from the real hoaxer. Who shall I be next ? contact1450@geocites.com I think ?? ----- So there is Paul's response. I don't know why Paul wants to keep this hoax alive by continuing to make posts, which raise suspicions, but I suspect Paul is having a good time with this. The opinions posted here are those of the users who posted them and are not necessarily those of the hosts, operators and providers of this service. Please report system abuse to the sysop. Copyright 1998 Keith Rowland, All Rights Reserved
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:10:10 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:09:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:50:44 -0000 >4 - The ease with which the USAF and US Navy intelligence people >were able to pull the wool over researchers eyes - and how they >are still doing so. 5 - The complete inability of the UFO >research community to sensibly come to terms with black projects >without going into the realms of fantasy (Tesla technology, >anti-gravity systems, Nazi occult magic, time travel etc. etc.). > > >Tim Matthews. > >---------- I would like to object to your use of the world: "realms of fantasy (Tesla technology.....etc." It is more than well documented that Tesla's work was NOT fantasy...The man had took to task one of the Great Inventors, Mr. Thomas Edison, and showed the mans closed mindedness, similar to what I have read above. Mr. Tesla was introduced to Mr. Edison by a letter which he hand delivered from Edison's closest associate, origionally from England, Charles Batchelor, who was origionally an English Inventor, himself. When he came to Edison to apply for a position at his Pearl Street laboratory in New York City in the Spring of 1884, Edison ask Tesla: "What can you do for me?" To which Edison replied that he had already done it... Tesla had redesigned Edison's DC motor communicator and made it more effecient. Not only had he done that, but he had done what his Professor at the University of Graz, in Austria, Professor Poeschi, said could not be done: "It would be equivalent to converting a steady pulling force like gravity into a rotary effort. It is a perpetual motion scheme, an impossible idea." What was that? He had discovered that the communicator in the DC motor could be eliminated and electricity could be harnessed in its natural state...(AC), Alternating Current. That was in the Mid-1870's, and in February, 1882, he finally solved the problem and set himself apart from all of his contemporaries, and created one of the most important inventions of the modern era. In early 1883, he constructed the first ever AC induction Motor, that remains virtually unchanged today, One hundred and fifteen years later. Tesla had not simply designed a more efficient machine, he had discovered "a new principle to electricity!" As hard as he tried, he could not convince Mr. Thomas Alva Edison, to accept his AC motors and Edison continued to use DC Current and Motors for the next 20 years. While Edison was lighting London with DC power, Tesla constructed the Niagara Falls Power Co, which was financed and owned by George Westinghouse, with which he produced AC power for the state of New York. Tesla's large coils became popular in the film industry in the 1920's - 30's in the Frankenstine movies and other si-fi movies as well. His wireless creations also set the stage for other wireless inventions such as "neon lights, beam emission devices, oscillators, resonant transformers, receiving insturments and remote controlled robots, which he called the telautomation." He displayed these creations in public lectures in "New York, Philadelphia, St. Louis and Chicago, in America and to scientific organizatons and royality in England, France, Germany and Austro- Hungry." All of this in the early 1890's... I won't continue any further...I think history records that this man's work was not fantasy. It would to us good to consider the possibility that his major break through, which his college professor, said was "impossible," may very well have been the "key" to the process of harnessing rotating magnetic fields for the development of power sources for earth made flying discs. REgards, Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent this way will go directly to my screen. If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Report On 1998 Show-Me UFO Conference From: Bob Soetebier <bikebob <bikebob@mo.net>> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:11:31 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:19:28 -0500 Subject: Report On 1998 Show-Me UFO Conference You have my permission to reproduce the following copyrighted (by me) article that I have written as long as it is reproduced in it's entirety: Unedited. Such permission is granted as long as such reproductions retain both the copyright statement and proper attribution. NO commercial reproduction of the mentioned article is permitted without specific prior consent and acknowledgement from me. Such consent for possible commercial reproduction may be subject to additional future conditions/restrictions that I may attach prior to granting said permission. (IMPORTANT Note: This complete pre-statement of reproduction parameters/conditions must also remain attached to any/all such reproduction/s, whether in electronic and/or hardcopy form.) Enjoy. :) Bob Soetebier St. Louis County, Missouri, USA Tailwinds to you... See you ON the road! /// BICYCLE BOB /// bikebob@mo.net -------------------------------------------------------------------- A Report (Highlights) On The 1998 Show-Me UFO Conference Copyright 1998, by Bob Soetebier The one-day Show-Me UFO Conference, presented by MUFON St. Louis, took place on Saturday, October 17, 1998. It was held in the spacious conference room at the Comfort Inn near West Port Plaza in Maryland Heights in St. Louis County, Missouri. For their efforts in organizing the conference, kudos are due for Bruce Widaman, Missouri MUFON State Director, and Dave Rapp, MO MUFON Director of Field Investigations. My wife and I were the first folks to arrive at the conference room that morning, as we had volunteered to help (if needed) with setup, etc. We were shortly joined by a some of our friends, and by a couple of other early birds: Chris O'Brien and Stanton Friedman; who were both, in order, the first and last scheduled speakers for the conference. The conference started on time, and first up to speak was Chris O'Brien. His talk was entitled, "The Mysterious Valley" (which also happens to be the title of his excellent 1996 non-fiction St. Martin's Paperbacks book) about the San Luis Valley in south central Colorado. (Good news: Chris O'Brien's next San Luis Valley update book, Enter The Valley, will be out before the end of this year.) ome of what Chris mentioned in his talk was a reprise of material covered in his 1996 book, and some from his coming 1998 book. So as not to spoil you reading experiences of either of those books, I won't go into detail here, other than to note that the suspicious animal mutilation cases in the Valley apparently continue, along with occasional UFO sightings...albeit, on a lessened frequency than previously reported. I will whet your appetite for intrigue, and mention that Chris confirmed that there are at least 2 or 3 -- and possibly 2 or 3 more nearby -- suspected underground facilities within the San Luis Valley. He did publicly state that he did not want to cite their probable locations during his talk. However, Chris did mention that there definitely is a U.S. government/military presence, or interest, in the San Luis Valley. In this regard, he referred to the government's attempt (opposed by the sparsely populated Valley residents) to expand the nearby MOA [Military Operations Area] westward into the valley. O'Brien is firmly convinced that many, if not most, of the previously reported "UFO" sightings in the Valley are actually sightings of test flights of exotic military aircraft and/or misidentification of more mundane air craft. He does stress, though, that such does not explain all UFO sightings. The next conference speaker was Lt. Col. Gerald Rowles, U.S.A.F. (Ret.), who is currently the Washington state Assistant State Director for MUFON. His talk was entitled, "The Aviano Incident." Rowles made it clear that he takes exception to some of the details -- such as the duration and characteristics of the reported sighting -- included in a couple of UFO-related books written separately by both Timothy Good an Jenny Randles. Rowles bases his updated information upon a personal interview he conducted with a very reliable and credible eye witness who was approximate to the July, 1, 1997, Aviano incident. [For those who are interested in the details of Aviano U.S.A.F. Base (in Italy) "UFO" case, be sure to check out Rowles' "The Mystery of Aviano" on pages 3 thru 6 in the February, 1996, issue of the "MUFON UFO Journal."] I did have the opportunity (during "Q&A") to ask Rowles if he had any information regarding Internet rumors of an "underground base" in the Dolomite Mountains at Aviano. He replied that, although he did not know for a fact that such a facility was there, he suspected that, since the Aviano Air Base would most certainly be a nuclear target, there most probably was a hardened underground facility *behind* the front range (not in within the facing hills) of the Dolomites. After the lunch break, the next speaker was physicist Rob Swiatek of FUFOR [Fund for UFO Research]. The title of his talk was "UFOs Exist and That's Final! 50 Years of Government Documents Prove It!" Swiatek presented a historical and chronological overview of the U.S. government's involvement in monitoring UFO sightings. He noted that the government's interest began back in the 1940s, if not before, with such widely reported incidents as the Kenneth Arnold UFOs sightings, the "Roswell" UFO incident, and the New Mexico and Desert Southwest "Green Fireballs" wave (investigated for the government by Dr. Lincoln LaPaz of Los Alamos). He also mentioned the government's Projects "Sign," "Grudge," "Twinkle" and "Blue Book." (All of which were essentially public relations cover efforts -- which very effectively "pulled the wool over the eyes" of the reporting media and the general public -- on the part of the government.) However, he did highlight many unexplained excellent cases from "Blue Book Special Report 14." Swiatek also exhibited a slide photo which he took of the Air Force's Capt. James McAndrew (who would not allow himself to be photographed above the shoulders) holding a purported example of one of the infamous "Mogul" balloons' radar reflector assemblies. It was obviously nothing more than an about waist-high assemblage of silverish reflective foil taped to lightweight sticks, which were tied together with a twine-like material, to form a four-sided pyramid-like assemblage. (And, that is exactly how the Mogul balloon reflectors were put together.) There is absolutely NO way Jesse Marcel, Sr., -- who was a military intelligence officer when he went to site of the Roswell UFO crash and saw and picked up and gathered together the debris -- could, or would, have mistaken such a flimsy device for what he actually originally reported and showed to his son, Jesse Marcel, Jr.! No doubt about it: There definitely are such things as UFOs. The evidence IS out there...somewhere! Next up was Major George Filer, U.S.A.F, (Ret.), of New Jersey, who is the Eastern States Regional Director for MUFON. He based much of his talk on more current/recent cases taken from his on-going compilation of "Filer's Files" UFO sightings reports. Filer also noted that he had talked to someone who claimed to know the location of the famous (or, depending how you look at: infamous) "Hanger 18" where some crashed or captured UFOs supposedly had been kept. The information given to Filer indicated that this facility was supposed to be located within a building on a hilltop on Air Force Base near Dayton, Ohio. He showed slides of recent pictures he took of the "Rotor Test Facility" and of the nearby "Building 18F" located on just such a hilltop at Wright-Patterson. He also had pictures that he took inside Building 18F. (He said that he was readily given entrance to the building when he asked to enter.) The pictures did not show anything unusual. However, when I asked Filer (during "Q&A") what he made of Robert Collins' contention (upon the Internet) that there are extensive underground facilities located at Wright-Patterson, Filer indicated that he thought that it was quite likely that such underground facilities are there. He also seemed to indicate that he wouldn't be surprised if the "Foreign Technology Division" located there might really be such a repository. For more information on how to receive, free, his weekly updated "Filer's Files" reports on-line, he noted that those interested could contact him via the Internet at Majorstar@aol.com The last, but not least, speaker was nuclear physicist Stanton T. Friedman. He gave a somewhat familiar (but always worth hearing again,) yet revamped, talk entitled, "The Cosmic Cover-Up." Friedman made it quite clear during his talk that people who report, and/or "believe" in, UFO sightings are not of low intelligence. On the contrary -- to what skeptics, the media, and the public in general believe -- he noted that as the level of education increases, so does the percentage of those who are convinced that there really is something to the UFO phenomenon. As a matter fact, Friedman reported that statistics indicate that 63% of those with a college education are in the "pro-UFO" category. Friedman also exhibited the now-famous (or, again, depending on how you view it: infamous) UFO-related documents finally released to him by the U.S. government in response to his Freedom of Information Act requests. The vast majority of the documents he exhibited were censored-out by the government. During the Speakers Panel Discussion "Q&A" following his final presentation of the evening, I had a chance to publicly ask Friedman if he would respond to "FATE" magazine columnist Antonio Huneeus' recent contention that Friedman is being "disingenuous" by continuing to exhibit these previously "censored-out" documents now that government has supposedly rereleased them in a less-censored condition. Friedman readily responded that Huneeus was apparently not aware that while these recently re-released documents might "appear" "less censored" in that they have much less "blacked-out" areas upon them, they now have quite a bit of material that has been censored via "white-out"; which, when photocopied, does not show up as anything more than blank white paper! As Friedman also noted, these recently released documents are still now "only" 75% censored, as opposed to their previous 90% censored state! Additional Notes: One of the added pluses of attending such conferences is the possibility of also getting to spend some "off time" with those in attendance. Among the folks who graciously accepted my invitation to join us for the evening meal that Saturday were: Chris O'Brien, Stanton Friedman, Rob Swiatek, Ted Phillips (UFO physical-trace case expert, and MO MUFON Co-Assistant State Director) and his wife, Dwight Connelly (Editor of the "MUFON UFO Journal") and his wife, Beverly Trout (Iowa MUFON State Director) and Ellen Stuart (Texas MUFON State Director). (For all but a couple of these folks, I had had the pleasure of meeting, and becoming friends with, them at previous conferences. If/when you have the chance to attend such a conference, do not be shy...go up to others and introduce yourself.) On the Sunday following the conference, Beverly Trout, Ellen Stuart and Stanton Friedman joined my wife and me for our planned morning excursion to Cahokia Mounds, on the other side of the Mississippi River from St. Louis, in Illinois. In addition to the famous Monk's Mound (largest earthen mound in N. America) and the many other mounds scattered about the large site, there is not-to-be-missed, world-class museum (free admission) there, too. For more info, check out the Internet web site: http://www.cahokiamounds.com For more information on the above-mentioned speakers and their materials, be sure to check out the appropriate Internet links via such excellent web sites as: Glenn Campell's "UFO Mind" http://www.ufomind.com Jeff Rense's "Sightings On The Radio" http://www.sightings.com Michael Lindemann's "CNI News" http://www.cninews.com ----------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Cahokia Mounds From: Bob Soetebier <bikebob <bikebob@mo.net>> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:32:26 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:27:55 -0500 Subject: Cahokia Mounds I grant permission to any/all to reproduce the following copyrighted (by me) article, as long as such reproduction retains both the copyright statement and proper attritubtion. And, as long as it is reproduced in it's entirety: Unedited. Additionally, this entire pre-statement must remain with the article. NO commercial reproduction whatsoever of this article is allowed unless specific prior permission is obtained directly from me. Also, such granting of permission for reproduction for commercial purposes shall be subject to whatever additonal conditions I may wish to attach at that time. Enjoy :) Bob Soetebier St. Louis County, Missouri, USA ----------------------------------------------------------------- Cahokia Mounds State and World Heritage Site Copyright 1998, by Bob Soetebier The Cahokia Mounds State and World Heritage Site is located just a few miles east of downtown St. Louis, Missouri. The site is just south of I-70 and couple of miles west of I-255 and Collinsville, Illinois. The best way to get there is to go south on I-255 from I-70 and then take the next/first exit from I-255 onto Collinsville Road. Then go a couple of miles west on Collinsville Road which travels right through the site. The Cahokia Mounds site is open to the public from 8am to 9pm, 7 days/week. The Interpretive Center/museum -- built in 1989 for a cost of $8.2 million dollars! -- there is also open 7 days/week, 9am to 5pm. Both the site, parking and the museum are free: No admission charged. (Donations are accepted, though.) The museum also has a gift shop and a food and refreshment area for your convenience, too. On the south side of Collinville Rd. you'll find the entrance road for the museum, which is on the within sight of the huge earthen "Monks Mound" on the north side of Collinsville Road. At the entrance you will see the large stone graphic display of the site's emblem: The "Birdman." The original small stone tablet, from which this Birdman design was taken, was found at, or along, the lower slope/base near the southeast corner/side of Monks Mound. The actual small Birdman tablet is on display in a pedestalled case in the museum. You'll this display on the first corridor on you left of the entryway, just to the right of the men's restroom. Be sure to also check out the diagonal cross-hatching on the back side of the tablet, too. If you're short on time, you can drive the short distance to/from the museum parking lot and the Monks Mound parking lot and "get by" with as little as the must-do 1/4-mile round-trip walk and relatively short climb up to the top of Monks Mound. (If you're out of shape, just plan to take a breather every few steps up the climb to enjoy the progressively better view until you reach the top. The impressive view from the top is definitely well worth the climb!) Woodhenge, also located on the north side of Collinsville Road, is a short drive not too far east of Monks Mound. Don't forget to check out the free audio-visual slide show in the museum's amphitheater. It is shown daily every hour from 10am to 4pm. Plan to spend at least a couple of hours -- better yet, three hours, or more -- for the full experience of the outdoor site and the indoor museum. On your outdoor walk around the site to various points of interest, including the Twin Mounds, Woodhenge and Monks Mound (which is the largest earthen mound in North America,) you follow along the trails to numbered-posted sites. At the museum's information desk, you can borrow a tape recorder with a very informative and helpful pre-recorded audiocassette to assist you in your self-guided tour of the site. (There is no charge to borrow this equipment, but you must be willing to allow your driver's license ID number to be recorded -- you have seen to it that your social security number has been removed as your driver's license ID number, right!?! -- to secure the loan of and use of this equipment while on site.) Bill Iseminger, who is the Public Relations Director for Cahokia Mounds, notes that the Museum Shop has a guidebook for sale (for $1.00) which contains the same information that is on the "loaner" audiocassette tape. He also notes that the guidebook is available in 13 languages. Mr. Iseminger further notes that the Museum Shop has for sale (for $1.25) a guidebook for the 6-mile Nature/Culture Hike periphery trail. The trail guidebook has a map, along with descriptions of all the mounds and archaeological areas located on the site. It also contains descriptions of the site's plants and trees and delineates how they were utilized by the natives. It is well worth your time to consider walking the entire 6-mile, flat-terrain trail. Tt goes through some nicely wooded and pleasantly shady areas, but mostly traverses open fields. The periphery trail (like some of the shorter trails) begins at the site museum and will take you by a long, low Indian burial mound, the Twin Mounds, Woodhenge, Monks Mound, the Stockade, by some "borrow pit" seasonal ponds and wildlife areas, and then back to the museum. Also, if you do take any of the trails through the open fields during late Spring, Summer or early Fall, be sure to apply some insect repellent! Otherwise, you'll likely regret this oversight from possible chigger bites and/or mosquito bites. This is not so much of a concern, though, if you stick to and do not stray from or off the surface of the shorter wood-chipped trails to/from the museum and/or Monks Mound. Lastly, don't forget to bring your camera, comfortable walking shoes, and some water to drink as you walk the trails. Except for the many-stepped climb up to the great 360-degree view from atop Monks Mound -- which is the only mound at the site the public is allowed to ascend -- all of the trails at the site are over flat terrain. Also, all the trails are either wood-chipped (especially the shorter ones) or cut grass (the longer open-field ones). However, do keep in mind that if there has been recent rain within the past few days there can be a few wet and/or muddy spots, especially in some of the shady wooded areas along the longer periphery trail. A final note: During the spring of 1998, an unusual stone anomaly was discovered within Monks Mound. This discovery was made when a drilling operation (as part of an effort to emplace a water drainage system into the mound to prevent further erosion) surprisingly struck this stone. What made this discovery so surprising is that this is the first time any such an assemblage of stone (whether solid or rubble) has been detected within any of the mounds on the site. As a matter of fact, this anomaly is of particular note because (as far is known) no such anomalous stone conglomeration has been noted within any of the other many Missippian culture's mound sites in the U.S.! For more information on this amazing new discovery, and for more up-to-date details about the Cahokia Mounds site and its visitor's center/museum, check out the official Internet web site at: http://www.cahokiamounds.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:35:38 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:36:29 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien >From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:01:01 EST >To: Updates@globalserve.net, >Subject: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body Snatchers >This has all the earmarks of a contrived story with too many >inconsistencies. The Aliens are here, but they didn't show up >for this photo session. >A "Dr. Jonathon Reed" claims it happened about 2 years ago. He >was hiking in the woods somewhere in Washington State with his >dog and lost track of her while he was contemplating nature. A >loud commotion is heard nearby. He arrives at the scene too late >to stop the alien from killing his dog. The alien allegedly >killed his dog because the dog was "attacking" the alien. I find >this very implausible. Implausible? I have been attacked 5 times in my life - all by domesticated dogs - all unprovoked >Domestic dogs and most small animals are >terrified of aliens and usually run away. Domesticated dogs are capable under the right circumstances of attacking an 8' bear. >A frightened dog may >standback a short distance and bark at a strange looking >intruder. They don't attack unless provoked. Aliens, at least a >Grey, would not simply kill a dog. This entity is ostensibly not a standard Grey. From where comes the baseline info for how a "Grey-like" entity would handle a bothersome dog? >They probably would >immobilize it somehow. Unless it was a Chupacabra, which it >doesn't look like from the alleged photographs. >The good Dr. Reed comes to his dogs aid, sees the black, >diamond-shaped UFO hovering, and the alien killing his dog. Does >he film the UFO first, and then get a large stick and beat the >alien over the head to death? He stated he dealt with the dog's situation and photographed later. >Did the alien just stand there and >do nothing after he had just killed the dog? Why didn't the bad >alien attack or abduct Dr. Reed? It was hit with a piece of wood. >That hovering ufo he allegedly >had time to take pictures of troubles me. Is this a case of >reverse-missing time? Were the saucer and alien frozen in time >by the angry doctor? We don't know and it is not essential to the story. > Non sequitor here, there had to be another >alien in the craft, piloting it. Why? >Why didn't the other alien help? >the one who was being clubbed to death or just zip away and >escape? No second alien. >So much for alien comradery and the Hippocratic oath. >Dr. Reed took the alien body home (did he bury his dog in the >woods?). Reed stated the dog was destroyed in toto. >Soon afterwards the alien's body was stolen, but not >the photos. How sloppy for the MIB's and how very convenient for >Dr. Reed! Perhaps the photos were not on the premises. >This all a very familiar scenario. It is text book >P.T. Barnum! Snake Oil 101. It's any easy sleight of truth to >explain away the never-existing physical evidence. But "let's go >to the the video tape" and take a closer look at the photos! >The photo of the black diamond-shaped ufo looks like a fake. The >scale and perspective is all wrong. Look at the surrounding >plants and shrubs. You could't fit a grey squirrel in that >thing! It even looks fake. I examined the edges around the ship >in Photoshop. They are much too jagged and do not blend >naturally into the background. The alien photos are not too easy >to dismiss, though. They look good but it could be a cleverly >fabricated dummy. Hard to tell from just the photos. Interesting that so much effort was made over the alien photos, and so little effort regarding the obvious "fake" craft photo. Also, Reed has offered the negatives and other photos plus video tape. >The "red" blood is odd. I thought greys didn't have red blood, >just a pale fluid. Not clearly a standard Grey. >The whole thing looks suspicious and contrived and appears to be >nothing more than a custom tailored hoax. The presentation on >the Art Bell show by Dr. Reed's agent Robert Raith, seemed >contrived. Even Art Bell had a tone in his voice that hinted at >disbelief of the story. Dr. Reed is making an appearance on the >Art Bell show tonight. Watch for announcements of Dr. Jonathan >Reed on the radio talk show circuit. He'll soon be raking it in, >hawking his book and videotape. Caveat Lector! But I guess some >people just enjoy being taken in and clubbed to death with >obvious hoaxes! >Ignatius Graffeo A humble suggestion. Let people with extraordinary stories get their information out. Give them a receptive ear and an open mind. Look over "all" the evidence. Then formulate some reasoned analysis. Otherwise, why should anyone come forward with any information to sow before the increasingly cynical gaze of the frustrated UFO researchers and their smart ass dismissals. SB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Laura Lee Show - E-News - November 14, 1998 From: Laura Lee Show webmaster@lauralee.com Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:21:21 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:50:43 -0500 Subject: Laura Lee Show - E-News - November 14, 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Here is your WEEKLY E-NEWS from THE LAURA LEE SHOW and www.lauralee.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Laura Lee E-News is sent by subscription only. If you wish to unsubscribe go to: http://www.lauralee.com/cfdocs/laura/mailinglist/enduse.cfm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hello. Hope you had a great week! Thanks for subscribing to Laura Lee E-News. ++++++++ Following this weeks list of upcoming guests and topics, you'll also find FAQ (Answers to Frequently Asked Questions) on: --Bulletin Board: Your Reaction to Guests --Audio Archives (now in REAL AUDIO) --Live Webcast --Live Laura Lee Show Hours --Radio Stations Carrying The Laura Lee Show --Book Giveaway: how to enter --Photo Gallery Link --Subscribing or Unsubscribing to weekly Laura Lee E-News ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GUEST/TOPIC LINE UP for Saturday, October 17, 1998 By Laura Lee Dr. Brent Morris & Robert Lomas We'll have that debate between two Freemasons on how far back one can trace Freemasonry. Dr. Brent Morris is the conservative historian of Freemasonry, who will argue for a recent date as the beginning of the order. Robert Lomas will argue for deep roots, back to the Knights Templar, King Solomon, ancient Egypt and Sumer. Links are: Brent Morris http://www.lauralee.com/morris.htm Robert Lomas http://www.lauralee.com/lomas.htm We'll also spend some time with open phone conversation. *SPECIAL ADDITIONAL LAURA LEE HOURS TONIGHT, THURSDAY, FRIDAY Talkspot, the new talk show network exclusive to the internet, has asked Laura Lee to host an open forum discussing popular late night host Art Bell's sudden departure from the airwaves. So we'll continue during the hours of 10 PM - 3 AM Pacific on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. (time and days could change without notice.) This will be an open forum to hear your comments on Art and related issues. While the speculation continues on the reasons behind Art's announcement that he is ending his broadcast career, and if he will soon return to radio or some other media, we want to wish Art and his family all the best. FOR ALL THE LINKS GOT TO http://www.lauralee.com/artbell.htm SPECIAL TALKSPOT CALL-IN NUMBER Whether you can listen to the internet broadcast or not .. You can call in at 1-800-485-1923 during the hours of 10 PM - 3 AM Pacific (1 AM - 5 AM Eastern) tonight, Thursday, and Friday. Currently Talkspot is running the archive from last night's coverage of "The Laura Lee Show -- Special Edition of Where's Art Bell? Day One" at http://www.talkspot.com. THIS WEEK'S POLL: to be announced on Saturday After voting give us your feedback on the Laura Lee Bulletin Board: http://www.lauralee.com/bulletin.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ANSWERS TO FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS FOLLOW. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE LAURA LEE SHOW WEBSITE: http://www.lauralee.com/index.cfm REAL AUDIO ARCHIVES: Posted in full by Sunday Noon Pacific for the previous nights show. Now formatted in REAL AUDIO. The Audio Archives will remain on our website indefinitely. http://www.lauralee.com/archives.htm AUDIO CASSETTES: Should you need an audio tape of same to send to a friend, or to listen to when you are not at your computer, call 1-800-243-1438. Tapes are edited of commercial and news breaks, are often on 90 minute cassettes, and only $7 each. More info at: http://www.lauralee.com/cassette.htm LIVE WEBCAST: If you cannot get radio reception, try the webcast during live show hours. To join the webcast, click the AUDIO button on our homepage, and follow directions from there. Or go direct: http://www.lauralee.com/aud_live.htm BULLETIN BOARD SECTION for YOUR REACTION TO GUESTS: We named it "And the Conversation Continues" This new feature is a bulletin board segmented by date, then guest, to gather your musings and reactions to the various guest and their research. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:56:18 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:30:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:40:16 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:36:34 -0500 >Subject: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell Previously, Nick offered: >Below is a message I got from Tony Craddock of CSETI about some >new alien photos on Art Bell's web site. This dead alien at >least looks a lot more real than the clay(?) model alien found >in Timothy Good's latest book and also on CSETI's web site. >Have a look for yourself and let us know what you think. It >seems to be authentic to me, especially since the dead alien's >body is resting on what looks like more Roswell UFO crash >wreckage. ;o) Dumb-ass photos can be seen at: http://www.artbell.com/aliens4.html together I'm sorry. But if someone's gonna fake a UFO photo, at least they could get the shadows of the UFO and the shadows of the trees on the same damn side. What a piece of crap. Don't waste my time.... Roger Evans,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' From: Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug <KONAWS@statoil.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:52:59 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:03:16 -0500 Subject: Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:26:23 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: MUROC AB 8 Jul 1947 & the 'Flying Flap Jack' >Asgeir, List: >The 'Flying Flap Jack' was not a mystery in 1947. >On the front page of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram on Sunday, >July 6, 1947 -- the Roswell 'flying disk' story broke two days >_later_ on July 8, 1947 -- one of these is pictured close up >with an "AP Wirephoto" credit. >The cutline says: >"RESEMBLES FLYING DISK--Navy officials in Washington said the >V-173, a wingless plane called the 'flying pancake', is the only >craft they operate which would answer the description of the >'flying disk'. They said, however, that the only plane of this >type has never left Bridgeport, Conn." >Asgeir, could it be that the Navy was lying too? >James Bond Johnson James & List, Should there possibly be any available photos from the previously mentioned air show, I think one should try to compare these air show photos with the following URLs, to determine whether the aircraft in this show actually was the V-173 or the XF5U-1: http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/~ortmann/f5u.htm http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/~ortmann/f5u-b.jpg http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/~ortmann/v173-a.gif It looks like that the greatest difference between these two planes are: * X5U-1: The 4 propeller blades, the two engine air intakes along each side of the fuselage and the extended cock-pit - in line with the propellers. * V-173: 3 propeller blades and (possibly) fixed wheels. Best Regards, AWS
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: More SLV Sightings From: Christopher O'Brien <tmv@pop.amigo.net> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:59:44 -7 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:12:28 -0500 Subject: Re: More SLV Sightings [non-subscriber post] UPDATE: The recent October upsurge in unexplained aerial activity in the San Luis Valley seems to be continuing here in November. Thu Nov 12, 1998 @ 6:15 pm Northern San Luis Valley Chaffee/Custer/Huerfano County FB1 (O'Brien/O'Brien) Last night my brother and I witnessed an unusual aerial object. We were driving north in the Baca Development and directly in fronrt of us, framed in the windshield, we watched an extremely bright steady light rise quickly from behind the mountains around the Salida/Howard area. The light which was initially brighter and slightly larger than Venus and visible for about two minutes shot up and out, SW to NE, at a 25 degree angle. It never varied its speed, which appeared to be twice as fast as a cruising commercial jetliner, or around 1000 to 1200 mph. As it climbed higher, it became smaller and smaller and disappeared to the SE. The object appeared to be just inside the western side of the La Veta Military Operations area. SAME NIGHT 9:45 pm Mesita, CO, Rio Grande, Alamosa, Conejos Counties MA1 (O'Brien/Peay) Two witnesses in Mesita, CO were returning home when they spotted TWO bright, unblinking lights rise 100 miles away to the NW around the Treasure Mtn/Wolf Creek Pass area. The lights moved in tandam-about 1degree apart and appeared to be a single object. One witness observed the 30 second sighting w/ binoculars. The lights appeared to head SE at around an altitude of 3500 to 4000 feet, (toward the witnesses) before slowly turning and heading south at the San Luis Hills in the middle of the SLV. At its closest point to the witness observing w/ binoculars, the object blocked out the background stars betweeen the lights. Witness estimated the distance between the two lights as "about 600 feet," and he described the sighting (one of a dozen he has had in the last two years) as being "by far the most spectacular night sighting" he has experienced. The sighting took place 75 - 50 miles west of the La Veta MOA. Christopher O'Brien CAUS/Skywatch tmv@amigo.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Is 'Dr.' Fiore any More? From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:24:23 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:15:00 -0500 Subject: Is 'Dr.' Fiore any More? Howdy fellow Youfers* Did Dr. Edith Fiore lose her psych. license? I thought I saw a post a few months ago that she had. Am I correct? No more alien and spirits of the dead exorcisms with crystals?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Have Blue, Will Travel From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:49:43 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:17:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Have Blue, Will Travel >From: Jakes Louw <LOUWJE@telkom.co.za> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Have Blue, Will Travel >Greetings >Being severily "Net challenged" these days, I need some info: >Was their a significant increase in sightings in the >Nevada/Tonopah area in 1977/8 while HB 1001 and HB 1002 were >being test-flown? >Messrs. Aldrich, Matthews, anybody else? >Regards, >louwje@telkom.co.za Dear Jakes: Out of some 17,291 sightings listed in the *U* UFO Database ( worldwide ) only 72 were in Nevada. Looking through the 1970s, the numbers are far to small for statistics: 1972 - none 1973 - 1 1974 - 2 1975 - 1 1976 - 3 1977 - none 1978 - 1 1979 - 0 I try my best to filter out mis-identified aircraft, so this may have contributed to the poor showing here. Perhaps some unfiltered database would show a better correlation. Out of the Nevada sightings for all dates, a few interesting factoids emerge, again with the caution against the statistics of small samples.. 1) Sunday and especially Thursday are the busiest days. 2) Daylight sightings in Nevada, while still fewer than night sightings, make up a higher percentage of total sightings than in the 50 states taken as a whole. 3) Sightings ( for all years ) seem to be most common between June and July, perhaps because people are on the road vacationing. 4) Out of some 64 US States and Canadian provinces, Nevada ranks 42nd in terms of raw sightings counts, for this database. 5) For the period 1974 to 1976, the sightings occurred in widely separate places, Las Vegas, Carson City, Ely, Carson City, Reno, Blue Diamond.. i.e. there was no special concentration around the Nellis complex. I hope this is some small help. Best wishes - Larry Hatch = = = = =
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Whats ON, University of Sydney From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:07:17 +1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:19:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Whats ON, University of Sydney Keith Basterfield Network Australasia tkbnetw@fan.net.au ******************************************* Please post SUMSS Science Workshop 1998 A one-day workshop hosted by the Astrophysics department and the Research Centre for Theoretical Astrophysics, University of Sydney Monday 23 November, 9.30am -- 4.45pm Sir Hermann Black Room, Staff Club, University of Sydney The Sydney University Molonglo Sky Survey (SUMSS) is now well into its second year of observing. This wide-field survey presents many opportunities for science programmes, too numerous and varied to cover in a one-day workshop. Instead, we have chosen two topics of interest to the wider astronomical community, namely star forming galaxies and the AGN phenomenon. The workshop will focus upon determining the optimum multi-wavelength approach for these two classes of sources. We hope that you will be interested in attending our workshop. Registration is free, but is required for catering purposes: Please contact Carole Jackson, cjackson@physics.usyd.edu.au 09:00 -- 09:30 Tea/coffee 09:30 -- 09:35 Welcome Dick Hunstead, Sydney 09:35 -- 09:45 Introduction to SUMSS Anne Green, Sydney Session 1: Star Formation 09:45 -- 10:50 Tracing star-formation via multi-wavelength observations Lawrence Cram, Sydney 10:50 -- 11:10 Morning coffee 11:10 -- 11:30 Photometric redshift determination Alberto Fernandez-Soto, UNSW 11:30 -- 11:50 Star-formation at optical wavelengths Lewis Jones, UNSW 11:50 -- 12:10 Multi-wavelength observations of IRAS sources Peter McGregor, ANU 12:10 -- 12:30 The 2dF Galaxy Redshift survey Matthew Colless, ANU 12:30 -- 13:15 Session 2: AGN 13:15 -- 14:15 AGN populations & unification Carole Jackson, Sydney 14:15 -- 14:30 The 2dF Quasar survey Robert Smith, ANU 14:30 -- 14:45 Giant radiogalaxies & SUMSS Garret Cotter, MRAO 14:45 -- 15:00 X-ray surveys & high-z sources Brian Boyle, AAO 15:00 -- 15:20 Afternoon tea Session 3: Future Directions 15:20 -- 15:35 6dF Fred Watson, AAO 15:35 -- 15:50 The Gemini telescopes -- what & when Gary DaCosta, ANU 15:50 -- 16:05 The SKA Ron Ekers, ATNF 16:05 -- 16:30 Open discussion Chair: Dave Jauncey, ATNF 16:30 -- 16:45 Closing remarks Don Melrose, RCfTA Regards Diane
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo From: Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug <KONAWS@statoil.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:51:53 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:22:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:02:58 -0000 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>Date: 08 November 1998 17:51 >>From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >>Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:28:07 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>>Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:58:41 -0000 >>>Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 18:16:34 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Adamski's 'Scout Ship' UFO Photo >>>The evidence is now >>>suggesting that the Soviets had discplanes attempting to >>>penetrate the Northern DEW lines from 1949 and under these >>>circumstances any US response along similar lines would not be >>>surprising. >><snip> >>>I suggest >>>that flying discs are the big Cold War secret still to fully >>>emerge from the black world. >><snip> >>>The point is this; based upon a good deal of credible evidence >>>we can now say with a certain assurance that flying discs were >>>and are an example of earthly technology. >><snip> >>>I think 'flying triangle' reports are the same thing except >>>they're being seen now. >>Roger Evans >Hi Roger, >You are mistaken if you believe that there are no blueprints! >What do you think all these technical documents - the most >obvious example being the 'Silver Bug' - are? There are several >projects for which we have technical documents including AVRO >Projects 724, Project Y/Y2, WS606 A/B, the joke Avrocar, as well ><snip> >Tim Matthews. Tim, Roger & List, For your info., regarding the joke Avrocar and other kinds of (alleged) flying discs/saucers, some of these are shown here (including a possible 'Vril'): http://www.bkv.net/home/secrets/UFO.HTM (German text only...) Note also the photo (at the bottom of this URL) of Northrop's A-12 Avenger (US Navy project), which was finally cancelled. It's mentioned here that due to the special construction of the engines - with exhaust outlets mounted on top of the wings, and thus reflecting the noise from the wings and upwards - the plane could manoeuvre (pretty) noiseless. This design also resembles the tailless, Horten Ho229, flying wing design. (Note also that Walter Horten was _possibly_ working at Northrop from 1947, i.e., check out here: http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/horten1.htm ). As a further development, the XST design was proposed by Northrop in 1976: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/5268/xst.html Citing the following text from this URL: * "Northrop also submitted a stealth fighter design It was known as the XST for experimental Stealth Technology Demonstrator. Although the Northrop design eventually lost to the Lockheed design, it was promising enough to lead to three other ( and possibly four) stealth aircraft, the B-2, YF-23 and Tacit Blue. _The fourth aircraft may be a stealthy battlefield tactical recon aircraft that has yet to be revealed_." * "The Northrop design is similar to the HAVE BLUE in many regards. Both use boxy flat faceted planes to deflect probing radar waves away from the aircraft. Both HAVE BLUE and the XST had twin inward canted tails for control, but these were replaced on the F-117 by two large outward tails for improved stability." * "The Northrop XST is closer to a pure triangle planform than either the F-117 or the B-2. In fact the XST looks more like Northrop's cancelled A-12 Avenger , stealth replacement for the Navy's aging fleet of EA-6B." * "Instead of using two flush mounted inlets to feed the engines like the F-117 and HAVE BLUE, the XST design features a top mounted inlet located on the center-line just behind the cockpit transparency." * "The XST design may have evolved from Northrop's Tactical High Altitude Penetrator (THAP) designs of the early seventies, but some hint that the design is in reality based on the Teledyne Ryan design for an unmanned reconnaissance drone. In any event the XST concept undoubtedly influenced the design of the B-2 bomber , Tacit Blue , and the YF-23 Advanced Tactical fighter concept aircraft." In addition to the fairly noiseless design (people on the ground are likely to hear 'almost nothing'), the large delta- shaped wings will provide low stalling speeds, and thus allowing for low, gliding speeds. (Due to a principally, almost similar wing design, the Flying Flapjack had a min. design speed - stalling speed - of approx. 40 mph!) Thus, further developments of this Northrop XST design - possibly named TR3A Black Manta - might _possibly_ explain _some_ of the triangular aircraft sightings in the USA and Europe (Belgium, France, England etc.) in the recent years, and this aircraft is thus designed to be used as "a stealthy, 'battlefield', tactical, recon(naissance) aircraft"; e.g., check out these URLs: http://home.fireplug.net/~rshand/streams/ufos/phenomenon.html http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m26-006.shtml Thus, in my opinion, the triangular UFOs recently observed in France (in the French Ardennes), are beginning to look 'more terrestrially', and maybe applicable to triangular UFOs in general, observed at other locations, in other countries; se also below, i.e.: * _Condensation traces_ were visible at the rear of the reported UFO in question - which I think this is the most important observation reported so far regarding these triangular-shaped craft. In general, it should be difficult to see these traces in the dark. Condensation traces should indicate 'a somewhat normal' (terrestrial) propulsion system. Further: * One of it's angles were directed towards the flight path - something which indicates that it has a - more or less - normal, aerodynamical design. * Large, triangular wings - also indicates possibilities for flying at relatively low, gliding speeds (could be a combination of a glider and a motorized craft, possibly combined with other radar-stealthy characteristics - other than flying low). * Strange, _loud_ noise, which pushed people to look for the source of it, or, low-pithched sound from the engines - i.e., normal sounds from more or less conventional aircraft engines; the engines were probably located above the delta-shaped wings, so that much of the engines' noise would not be heard at ground level. Also, check out this triangular UFO sighting in Canada, on May 5, 1998, and look for similarities: http://ufobc.org/kelowna.htm - at least, the observers heard 'the faint roar of the engines' on this craft. In addition to the 'Black Manta', there might be other types of (alleged) secret aircraft as well, e.g., the Lockheed designed Aurora (or Senior Citizen) aircraft. Some (highly) _speculative_ images of these new aircraft designs are found here: http://www.aemann.demon.co.uk/mysteryaircraft.html However, these aircraft are basically high-flying - except being low-flying for some short time after take-off, or before landing.) In addition to the American Northrop or Lockheed companies as triangular aircraft designers, I will suggest that the following company should be checked out regarding this particular aircraft, military prototype, or spy plane: http://www.aerospatiale.fr/indexa.htm Should this be a French aircraft, most likely, it would be financed by the military, either the French military, or in co-operation with other countries' military organizations (but it could also be a civilian project). Thus, such a project will usually be a secret project, with no info. given to anyone outside the project itself, and possibly not even reported to the French government. Due to this, it will be difficult, or almost impossible, to get any credible information about the project, including any credible info. about the project's existence - until 30-100 years (?) from now. Some other reason for the stealthy, low altitude, noiseless flying, could also involve droppings of narcotic drugs. (E.g., could the craft just be searching for the right site to drop the drugs; looking for signs/lights from the ground?) In any case, these craft, or UFOs, will normally be difficult to detect by the military or civilian/police operated radars. Conclusion: The triangular aircraft are most likely of American or European origin, but possibly also of Russian origin (and 'highly unlikely' an ET aircraft). However, I guess we'll need some hard evidence to really prove these proposals. Maybe we'll have to wait for - at least - some good daylight photos, or even a crash. But, it might take some time before this happens... Best Regards, AWS
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:59:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:31:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:56:18 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:40:16 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >>Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:36:34 -0500 >>Subject: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell >Previously, Nick offered: >>Below is a message I got from Tony Craddock of CSETI about some >>new alien photos on Art Bell's web site. This dead alien at >>least looks a lot more real than the clay(?) model alien found >>in Timothy Good's latest book and also on CSETI's web site. >>Have a look for yourself and let us know what you think. It >>seems to be authentic to me, especially since the dead alien's >>body is resting on what looks like more Roswell UFO crash >>wreckage. ;o) >Dumb-ass photos can be seen at: > http://www.artbell.com/aliens4.html together >I'm sorry. But if someone's gonna fake a UFO photo, at least >they could get the shadows of the UFO and the shadows of the >trees on the same damn side. Yeah, or maybe create an alien that _does_ have shoulders (see PIC2 of the alien-pics, on the left side) >What a piece of crap. >Don't waste my time.... Amen! >Roger Evans, >Houston, Texas What bothers me is not only the hoaxers, but also _certain_people_ happily promoting this garbage. Ah well, maybe this one was probably send a head to check out the situation, and well, he didn't come back alive, so my guess is these ET-dudes will throw a U-ie immediatly and return to Zeta Reticuli, and _voila_ we have a perfect way out to explain why they don't land dec. 7th ;-) Best wishes, Andy Denne (A.U.R.A.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Montana UFO Sighting - The 'Gray's Still There! From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:42:03 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:35:35 -0500 Subject: Montana UFO Sighting - The 'Gray's Still There! Montana UFO Sighting Update -The "Gray," It's Still There! By Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com> 11-11-98 ST IGNATIUS, MONTANA --The ongoing UFO sightings have continued into the 11-10-1998 time frame. Cloud cover broke for this night and the UFO, alone, was there as it had been only lower in altitude and slightly further south toward the town of St. Ignatius, Montana, itself roughly 10 miles south of Ronan along the southern edge of the sprawling Mission Valley. Due to nearly 100% cloud cover with snow and storm over the last several nights viewing has been null from 11-6-1998 to current. Observation was made by local law enforcement as well as workers at the manufacturing facility mentioned in previous posts and other civilians who happened to notice the craft and reported same. Total on witnesses as of this writing has exceeded 600 area wide. There has been no further reporting by outside news sources other than that posted already. Lake county sheriff office personnel have continued to look into the matter with no availing information over and above what visual observation has provided. Local law enforcement in the towns of Ronan, St. Ignatius, and Polson have done the same. They too have garnered no conclusive data on this sighting. Reporter has yet to successfully witness UFO firsthand but is making arrangements to attempt this in forthcoming nights when conditions abide for such. In so doing two Navy SEAL high resolution digital compasses will be set up four miles apart along the north south route of highway 93, thus providing for triangulation, distance from the center of highway 93---a logical azimuth anchor point to the observed craft, size of craft, altitude, and if detected movement can be attained, thus, inherent speed in relation to observed location. The viewing time and conditions for this latest sighting was from 1:27AM to 3:34 AM when cloud cover obliterated the viewing window. During this time of clearing the sky was cloudless, exceptionally clear, stars in abundance, temperature in the 5 degree F range, no moon as it had set over the mountains to the west, no wind at surface. However, at 20,000 feet ASL the west to east winds are a steady 120 MPH over the Rocky Mountain Front complex coming from WWS blowing toward the EEN in a direct line. Witnesses reported the conditions were clear enough to single out a defined shape behind the previously described lighting of the craft but it was too vague to accurately describe. Several witnesses used hunting type binoculars for observation but they have yet to be interviewed by this reporter. Craft was 8 nautical miles distant from viewing locale at manufacturing facility and at altitude of approximately 14,000 feet ASL, and 4 miles further south than previous sightings since 10-16-1998. _________________ ERRATA Numerous emails to reporter have suggested this sighting is everything from ours, balloons, holograms. From experience over 19 years with NASA at various test sites around the country and overseas as well as a Navy SEAL active until 1990 and Reserve Status since that date to current, reporter can testify this sighting studied from interviews and reports from law enforcement, witnesses, and the NORAD/Fence database program, anomaly is nothing in our paucity for understanding. It is not of our technology. It is not an apparition. It is a physical vehicle with mass of unknown origin. It is an unknown and in Aerospace/military vernacular, listed as a 'GRAY'. The only remotely close related vehicle that could exhibit anything related to this anomaly is the Aurora high propulsion VTOL capable aircraft. However, tests and performance of this vehicle precludes the following: 1. It is and has been grounded for further structural tests at Area 51, Edwards Air Force Base, [Dryden], and at parent contractors test facilities at Palmdale, CA, at Lockheed, McDonnell Douglas, and Northrop. Aurora has not flown since 1-9-1998. Its only known public observation was during test flights over Area 51 on the afternoon of June 21, 1992, and video taped by cameramen from NBC News. Subsequent tape was shown and narrated on the NBC Nightly News the following night with narration by Mr. Brokaw, the nightly news anchor. 2. Aurora cannot hover in air at that altitude, temperature differential, present cross wind, nor can it evade F16F class aircraft. 3. Aurora is a small craft in size comparison to the F-117 4. Montana anomaly is guessed (by witness account) to be somewhere at 600 feet on a side and triangular in shape. Aurora is of the shape of a June bug, 1/700th this size. 5. Aurora could not be seen with unaided eye at this distance of observation as reported under any conditions. Thus, this UFO is not Aurora ____________________ THE FENCE The 'Fence' protocol at NORAD is a remarkable program made up of many technicians monitoring a series of interleaved grids coming from Geostationary high orbit satellites. The office tracks all 9,653 man made objects in space orbiting Earth. These include a pair of gloves from Gemini 6 and some dozen washers dropped on a repair mission on STS-51A on a shuttle mission and every other orbiting object of artificial origin along with the occasional meteorite that may remain in Earth's space for some overly long seconds.. If something untoward enters into the tracking field (the fence) it then begins a series of tracking logarithms to track speed, location, altitude, departure angle, mass, heat, and inherent velocity. From there it runs a test for itself to confirm that whatever it is is not something we have in space. From there a management program kicks in called, 'Intruder Assessment'. If a series of democratic protocols weigh out then the next step is to start a series of visual confirmations with our own air assets. Stealth 117A and or SR-71 are dispatched to attempt intercept. From there the 'Fence' protocols go through a series of 'what is' formats until the intruding element is either confirmed to be something from us or an unknown. Unknowns are called a 'Gray'. This is because the unknown is there in space but is not ours. It is not a 'target white' (friend) nor a 'target black' (foe). Thus far the Montana UFO is a 'Gray' as listed. It is also the 117,443 unknown to be catalogued at the 'Fence' office at NORAD or SAC since 1966, globally. It is suspected they (NORAD) have moved any one of three Keyhole deep-look satellites into position in high Earth Orbit to watch this bogey when it appears since conventional ground based air assets have failed to acquire craft for confirmation due to vehicle exhibiting phasing or some other type of eluding of recon aircraft. UFOs are not referred to as such in the military/NASA parlance. They are either a 't-white' (target white) if friend, 't-black' (target black) if a foe. Unknowns are a 't-gray' or sometimes a 'tg' for an acronym if not of Earth origin. The Montana UFO is not of Earth origin. Reported by: Robert A.M. Stephens Contractor, NASA Shuttle Documentation Program St. Ignatius, Montana (11-11-1998) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News: UFOSEEK... For the Source! www.ufoseek.org "Pictures of SETI Signals from unknown engineer in the UK" Contact1450 - Mirror Site: UPDATED (since Nov.3)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Camp Borden and UFOs From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:57:23 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:38:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Camp Borden and UFOs >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:56:00 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Camp Borden and UFOs >Hi Errol, >Last Sunday on 'Strange Days...Indeed' I heard about how two >people using a Ouiji Board got to see some UFOs along with >soldiers from Camp Borden. Although this story did not scare me >as it did with one of your callers, the connection between UFOs >and the 'occult' reminded me of many very similar stories by >Wilbert Smith and others in the Ottawa Flying Saucer Club >newsletter, 'Topside'. Maybe there is a now forgotten reason why >UFO books at one time in the past could only be found in the >Occult Section of bookstores... <snip> Stateside, any large booksellers have the UFO section mixed in with New Age..... UFO related material, in fact, can only be found under the New Age banner.... This is interesting in that it reflects the manner in which this subject is perceived by the ROW (Rest Of the World)..... the ROW being anyone not interested in the subject sufficiently to actually look for books on the subject ... therefore those who are (interested in the subject) immediately flock to the New Age section in order to find UFO material and we wonder why the hell it's there! At least I do. And as long as I am opining once again, there is little which is shared between New Age and UFOs except that each may be perceived as strange enough to lump them together along with witches, channeling, ghosts. Poltergeists and etc. Hmmm.... on the other hand.....?!? Nah.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:11:25 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:45:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:56:18 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:40:16 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >>Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:36:34 -0500 >>Subject: Photos of 'ET' on Art Bell >Previously, Nick offered: >>Below is a message I got from Tony Craddock of CSETI about some >>new alien photos on Art Bell's web site. This dead alien at >>least looks a lot more real than the clay(?) model alien found >>in Timothy Good's latest book and also on CSETI's web site. >>Have a look for yourself and let us know what you think. It >>seems to be authentic to me, especially since the dead alien's >>body is resting on what looks like more Roswell UFO crash >>wreckage. ;o) >Dumb-ass photos can be seen at: >I'm sorry. But if someone's gonna fake a UFO photo, at least >they could get the shadows of the UFO and the shadows of the >Don't waste my time.... >Roger Evans, >Houston, Texas Roger, Roger, Roger ... please ... a little understanding! First, the aliens, who are from the Planet Cookoo, located near Mongo (Santa Maria!), want you to believe it is all a hoax, so they made an artificial shadow using a technique now referred to as the Carp Krap Class Technique. This is all planned, see? They WANT you to think it's a hoax in order to fool you into thinking it is one ... doesn't that make sense? And furthermore, thru my recent channeling experience with Attila the Hun (who's spirit, now departed once again, inhabited the body of my late mother in law), anyway, thru my channeling experience with him... er, her.... it, whatever, I have been told that the alien body (corpus) really does look like that when it is dead. Alive, it looks much better. So I beg of you, Rog.... please, be a little more consideration for these Artbellian confibrillatory intoberations. It is, after all, the politically correct thing to do! And besides, "Informed readers Want to Know."** Jim **Logo from the supermarket newspaper calling itself,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Alex Franz <alfafox@pue1.telmex.net.mx> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:49:27 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:53:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:16:20 +0100 (MET) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:50:44 -0000 >>It ain't no theory; it is Secret Weapon Fact as the detailed >>history of certain older black projects indicate. No doubt back >>in the late 1980s you would have been denying the existence of >>the F-117A!! Just in case you think that just flying disc >>technologies are kept under wraps it might be of interest to >>note that Lockheed's Gusto programme still has classified >>elements - as do many other similar efforts. >Hi Tim, >Please enlighten us as to what the Gusto program is. >(It may be that has come up on this list earlier, but >in any case I missed it.) Hi Henry, I found this interesting info, Source: http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/sci/9711STMIM.html If you think you saw an SR-71 Blackbird at an air and space museum, the odds are you were actually looking at an A-12. The idea for the plane was conceived in 1954 by CIA director Allen Dulles. The objective of this secret program, according to aviation historian Paul F. Crickmore, was to build a spy plane capable of flying higher and faster than the U-2. The secret development program, which was originally called Project Aquatone, and then Gusto and then Oxcart, led to the first A-12 mockup. It became connected with UFO lore in late 1959 when, according to Crickmore, it was trucked from the famous Lockheed Skunk Works, in Palmdale, California, to Groom Lake, Nevada. (Also known to UFO enthusiasts as Area 51, this formerly secret test site is located about 100 miles north- west of Las Vegas, Nevada.) Hidden in the desert and surrounded by then active Atomic Energy Commission testing grounds, the A-12 mockup underwent a series of tests to determine and then reduce its ability to deflect and absorb radar signals. Regards, Alex Franz webmaster@alcione.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Strange Case of Dr. Reed & the Alien Body... From: Diana Botsford <ddbh@email.msn.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:28:53 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:02:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Strange Case of Dr. Reed & the Alien Body... From: UFO UpDates - Toronto [mailto:updates@globalserve.net] Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 7:42 AM To: UFO UpDates Subscribers :; Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body Snatchers >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:57:12 -0500 >From: michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body Snatchers >I have spent quite some time looking at this photograph, and >for the life of me I can't find the large rock that you >mentioned in your post. Michael, et al: Even easier to spot - look at the big dried at ferns on the right. You'll see the reflectivity from the overhead sun there. And behind the ship, up in the trees - look at the horizontal fir tree branches that are also displaying some reflectivity from the sun - light source. Hope that helps. Diana Botsford Publisher/Community Manager UFO Community on MSN http://communities.msn.com/ufo - - - - - - "To follow knowledge like a sinking star, Beyond the utmost bound of human thought . . To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield." Tennyson's Ulysses
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Major UFO Flap In September From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:39:05 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:08:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Major UFO Flap In September >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:40:34 -0600 (CST) >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Major UFO Flap In September >Hello Jim, >I've been an amateur astronomer since 1969 or so. I've spent >countless hours watching night skies here in Texas with my naked >eye, binoculars, and through all sorts of telescopes. In all that >time I've never seen anything odd. Some wonderful eclipses, some >awesome meteor showers, some fantastic views of the great red spot >on Jupiter, but nothing yet of the sort you describe. So I don't >fit into either of your catagories. And thus apparently unlike >yourself, I suppose I'm the same old person I always was. Hi Brian... When I was young, back 1961 (17 yrs old), I use to lay during the summer months and watch the skies for hours in the late afternoon and night. By 1963, I was seeing satellites, such as ECHO, the 100 foot mylar thin reflecting balloon, orbit the earth with the stars as a back drop. I had a small reflector telescope and studied the moon with it. It was only a 128 power lens... Those were great times in my life... I didn't see any UFOs that I know of, but I studied the subject with a hunger which was almost ravinous. I read almost every book on the subject I could find, from the time I was 12, back in 1956. I read Keyhoe, Rupelt, Skully, Dr. Donald Menzell (the early version of Phil Klass). I never could as a young man figur out why Dr. Menzell, could be an astronomer and react to the idea of Life elsewhere in the Universe. But since the so called Mythical MJ-12 or Majestic Group became public knowledge, it appears that Dr. Menzel was a member of the origional 12 founding members. Hmmm...all of a sudden it made sense...Was Phil Klass also a member of MJ-12, the "Next Generation?" <g> >But I have talked personally to credible folks who have seen >them, and one who was apparently taken aboard one in Tiawan in >the 1950s, whien it landed behind her village on the north coast. So have I...and One of the was on the origional Project Blue Book. He was a professor at Kansas State University, in 1989 when I drove out there to talk to him. >So I must struggle in an "intellectual" sense to understand >the phenomenon, based on my appreciation of the vastness of the >sky above our heads, the age of the cosmos, and the realization >that as an "advanced" civilization, we've only had the electric >light bulb for, what, a hundred years? A hundred years - >my goodness we are advanced! No, you don't have to struggle with it. The more you struggle the more you bind yourself in it. I know...I am the origional struggler. <g> This field can frustrate you so badly that you feel as though there is something wrong with you...why are thousands, or millions of people seeing UFOs and you are not? What can be wrong with you that the phenomena would not project itself to you??? I've been there! Not any more. I am just biding my time, until I either see them once again or die... Either scenerio is a possibility. >But no, I haven't "been there, done that" in the sense you >describe. So I suppose I remain one of the ignorant masses >with respect to having a "true" appreciation of the phenomenon. >My apologies. >Regards, > -Brian Cuthbertson Well, I did have one sighting...It was way back in 1967, in September...on a Monday night, about the middle of the month. Can't be sure of the exact date. To make a long story short. I saw a -V- formation of seven lights, the front light half disk shape and the other six, three on each side, oval or egg shapped. The passed directly over me and then the lead object (light) and the three on the right side of the -V- pivioted and the formation resembled an inverted -L-. The formation then slid 90 degreese to the left...and shortly after, the left side of the formation pivoted down and to the right to reestablish the -V- formation. Then it disappeared into the night sky to the north....Total duration...no more that 30 seconds...No sound...sky completely overcast...temp. approx. 65 degrees...no rain...no thunder or lightning...cloud ceiling...2000 ft. (according to the Air Port Control tower). Color: Flourscent white. Did not blink or osollate, remained a steady white. Clouds appeared to pass beneath the body of these lights. Each oval object was approximately 1/4 inch long at arms length... First appeared at approx. 45 deg. above the horizon in the Western night sky moving North to south...made a nice slow 90 degree turn toward the east, passed over me and made the sharp turn to the left back to the north and disappeared moving away...270 degree of arc in about 30 seconds. It first looked like a white B-58 Hustler Bomber when I first observed it...Looked more like a long triangle than a -V-....It was only later when viewed from aprox 65 deg West through 75 deg East that I could see it was not a closed triangle.... Well, that's my story...I hope you finally see something which can give you a vehicle to wrestle with, as I have all these years. Once you see it, it is very frustrating not to see it again. <G> REgards, Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent this way will go directly to my screen. If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455. My Home
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Alex Franz <alfafox@pue1.telmex.net.mx> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:13:33 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:12:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:10:10 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:50:44 -0000 >>4 - The ease with which the USAF and US Navy intelligence people >>were able to pull the wool over researchers eyes - and how they >>are still doing so. 5 - The complete inability of the UFO >>research community to sensibly come to terms with black projects >>without going into the realms of fantasy (Tesla technology, >>anti-gravity systems, Nazi occult magic, time travel etc. etc.). >>Tim Matthews. Hi Tim, Are you sure you are talking seriously? You wrote: >going into the realms of fantasy (Tesla technology, >anti-gravity systems, Nazi occult magic, time travel etc. etc.). Here, I object your knowledge about the above, Nicola Tesla was involved, also Albert Einstein, Dr. John Hutchinson Sr., Dr. Kurtenaur and Dr. John Von Neumann. I am talking about The Montauk Project. The Montauk project turned out to become a huge project branching off into many other smaller projects including Mind Control, Telepathy, Teleportation, and Time Travel. The first project: The Rainbow project (project invisibility), was founded in 1936. Nicola Tesla was named Director of the project. Tesla was given anything that was required by him for the testing of the project. Tesla required and was given a navy battle ship on which the experiments were to be tested. In 1940, after research using Tesla's approach, they decided they were ready for a full test at the Brooklyn Navy Yard. They had a small ship and a tender ship at each side. One ship provided the power and the other supplied the drive for the coils. They were tendered to the test ship by cables. The idea was that if anything went wrong they could cut the cables or sink the test ship. Everything worked and the project was declared a success. The important point about the 1940 test is that there was no one on board the test vehicle. It was strictly a dry run with no people. This is important because of what happened later. Tesla stated that there would be a serious problem with personnel if anyone were to enter the ship while the gauss coils were turned on and the Electro Magnetic radiation would damage them within this reality. He said in numerous occasions that he was in contact with Extra Terrestrials and that the ET's had also confirmed that there would be a problem. The Philadelphia project, became the Phoenix project when the case was re-opened again in 1947 at the Brook haven space-time laboratories, to see if they could salvage some this "non-working" project, and hide their ships and aircraft from radar. (today's Stealth Technology). Witnesses: Al Bielek, Preston Nicholas and Duncan Cameron the only 3 Known Survivors of the Eldridge (Philadelphia Project) and finally Philadelphia Experiment. /- - - - - - - - - - - - s n i p - - - - - - - - - - - - -< About Nazi occult magic: Source: http://user.fastinet.net/kalogonis/index/hitler.htm Many strange stories about Nazi Germany have come down to us in the years since the fall of the Third Reich. But none is more strange or incredible than the one about Hitler and the Spear of Longinus. According to tradition, the Spear of Longinus was the spear which had pierced the side of Christ as he hung upon the cross. Biblical prophecy had decreed that not a bone of the Messiah's body would be broken, and it is believed by many that the piercing of Christ's body by Longinus' Spear helped for that prophecy to be fulfilled. For the breaking of the legs of the two thieves foretold the fate to which Jesus' body would have been subjected had not Longinus proven to the other Roman soldiers that Christ was already dead. Thus, the early Christian community at Jerusalem understood the fact that Jesus' bones had not been broken as being further proof that he really was who he said he was the Messiah predicted by the Old Testament prophets (not the least of whom was Daniel, who had actually predicted the exact day that the Messiah would be proclaimed to be the King of Israel). At any rate, a legend came to center around the spear which Hitler believed in very strongly; that whosoever possessed the spear and understood its powers for serving good and evil could conquer the world. The spear which Hitler believed to be the True Spear had a history which could be traced at least as far back as Constantine the Great, the Roman Emperor who had legalized Christianity. In addition to Constantine, the spear had been possessed by such men as Theodosius, Alaric (who sacked Rome), Theodoric who turned back Attila the Hun, Justinian, Charles Martel (who had defeated the Moslems at the Battle of Poitiers), Charlemagne, 5 Saxon emperors who succeeded the Carolingian Dynasty, 7 Hohenstauffen emperors including Frederick Barbarossa and Frederick II, and others as well. Germanic tradition held that Charlemagne had kept the spear with him throughout 47 victorious battles, and had only died when he accidentally dropped it. Barbarossa, like Charlemagne, died within minutes of dropping it as he crossed a stream. Following these warriors, apart from Hitler, no conqueror had paid the legend any heed during the next 500 years with the exception of Napoleon who attempted to take it following the Battle of Austerlitz. Unfortunately for him, it had already been smuggled out of Vienna just prior to the battle, and he never obtained it. ------------------------------------------------- "Hitler and The Spear of Destiny" Source: http://members.aol.com/celticson9/hitler.html Both Guernica and the 1934 drawing conceal references to a mystical battle between Picasso and Hitler in connection with the Spear of Destiny. This hidden pictorial narrative, set in the context of Wagner's opera Parsifal, reveals some uncanny associations with events in Hitler's life and with his quest to dominate Europe. According to the account of Dr. Walter Stein, the young Hitler whilst living as a down and out in Vienna undertook a penetrating study of the Occult meanings underlying Wolfram Von Eschenbach's Thirteenth Century Grail Romance, 'Parsival'. Stein through various contacts with Hitler became convinced that he was deeply involved with the Occult and had an experienced spiritual mentor, possibly linked to the infamous 'Blood Lodge of Guido Von Liszt. Hitler later claimed in Mein Kampf, that these had been the most vital years of his life in which he learned all he needed to know to lead the Nazi Party. Stein got to know Hitler because of their mutual interest in the Spear of Destiny - a relic on display in the Hapsburg's treasury at the Hofmuseum in Vienna. The relic was said to have phenomenal talismanic power having once been used at the Crucifixion to wound the side of Christ. According to legend, possession of the Spear would bring its owner the power to conquer the world, but losing it would bring immediate death. The relic had been owned by a succession of powerful European rulers down through the centuries and eventually came to be in the possession of the Hapsberg Dynasty. Hitler confided to Stein that the first time he saw the Spear he had witnessed extraordinary visions of his own destiny unfolding before him. In 1923, on his deathbed, Hitler's mentor Dietrich Eckart, a dedicated Satanist and central figure in the Occult Thule Society and a founder member of the Nazi party, said: 'Follow Hitler ! He will dance, but it is I who have called the tune !' I have initiated him into the 'Secret Doctrine', opened his centres in vision and given him the means to communicate with the Powers.' 'Do not mourn for me: I shall have influenced history more than any other German.' On 12th March 1938, the day Hitler annexed Austria, he arrived in Vienna a conquering hero. He first port of call was to the Hofmuseum where he took possession of the Spear which he immediately sent to Nuremberg, the spiritual capital of Nazi Germany. At 2.10 on 30th April, 1945, during the final days of the war, after considerable bombing of Nuremberg, the Spear fell into the hands of the American 7th Army under General Patton. Later that day, in fulfillment of the legend, Hitler committed suicide. Regards, Alex Franz
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Strange Case of Dr. Reed & Alien Body... From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:27:58 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:25:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Strange Case of Dr. Reed & Alien Body... >From: Diana Botsford <ddbh@email.msn.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body Snatchers >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:40:48 -0600 >>The photo of the black diamond-shaped ufo looks like a fake. The >>scale and perspective is all wrong. Look at the surrounding >>plants and shrubs. You could't fit a grey squirrel in that >>thing! It even looks fake. I examined the edges around the ship >>in Photoshop. They are much too jagged and do not blend >>naturally into the background. The alien photos are not too easy >>to dismiss, though. They look good but it could be a cleverly >>fabricated dummy. Hard to tell from just the photos. The "red" >>blood is odd. I thought greys didn't have red blood, just a pale >>fluid. >There's a much simplier way to tell this is fabricated and you >don't even need to put it in 'photoshop' to tell. Look at the >large rock to camera right. You can see the sun shining down on >it. Time of the photo was most likely somewhere between 11 and >1. Pretty strong sun too by the looks of that rock. >So, if the sun was directly overhead - it would have been >beaming down on the 'ship' and thus created a shadow on the >ground below. :-) Well, first of all, let me say, that both of you are making assumptions, which may or may not be correct. I don't know. It has been stated by alleged "abductees" that a UFO the size of a basketball, outwardly, may well be nothing more than a 3-D doorway to another dimension. In other words, it may appear to be small outwardly, but inwardly may be as large as a city block, or larger! So, the arguement that you "couldn't fit a gray squirle in that thing..." may not be a true statment. It is a matter of perception from "our vantage point. Another assumption that it is not leaving a shadow, may be misleading also. How do you know, if the alleged object is "real" and not a hoax, that it would leave a shadow? It looks stealthy to me...so, it may absorbe all light without leaving a shadow, or it may allow light to reflect "around" it, much as our sun does, using it's gravitinal field to "bend light" so we may see a star behind it. Remember, this is all assumption...I have no idea either way if this photo is legitimate or not... I am not really worried about it either. If it is...great. If now...so what..."just another brick in the wall." REgards, Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent this way will go directly to my screen. If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455. My Home Telephone Number is: (502) 683-6811
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 98 17:57:40 PST Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:30:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:57:19 PST >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 12:36:57 PST >>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> >>>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >>>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:19:05 -0800 >>>Willy Ley astonomer, rocketeer, Jew. Willy is one of the great ><snip> >>I had not heard before that Ley was Jewish, which would not >>matter at all if, of course, such things had not mattered >>profoundly to Nazi murderers. Are you sure of this? From what I >>understand, Ley fled Germany not because he feared Hitler's >>ethnic cleansing but because he thought the Nazis might come >>down on him for publishing rocketry articles outside Germany. If >>you know better, I'd be happy to be corrected. >>Jerry Clark >Jerry (& List), >Could we please agree to not (as in _never_ again) use that >Orwellian phrase of 'ethnic cleansing' in place of of the truely >_dirty_ and barbaric behaviour that it was then in Europe and, >continues to be today in other countries - genocide. >Is that too much to ask for, in this List at least, when we are >trying to find truths in the Orwellian speak of and behaviour of >so many governments and agencies around the world - also out of >respect for those who been on the receiving end of such >treatment? Leanne, I happen to be a major admirer of Orwell. In fact, a few weeks ago I read Michael Shelten's biography of him (better than Bernard Crick's, by the way, if anybody's interested). I am keenly attuned to Orwellian language. Everybody on this list, incidentally, ought to read Orwell's famous essay "Politics and the English Language" on this very subject. "Ethnic cleansing" is indeed an Orwellian term, and I was using it exactly in that bitterly ironic sense, to denote the continuity between barbarism in Germany in the early 1940s and barbarism in the former Yugoslavia (and elsewhere, such as Rwanda) in the 1990s. The only reason Hitler and his henchmen didn't use the term "ethnic cleansing" to denote genocide was that they didn't think of it. Mass murder, alas, is not a phenomenon consigned to distant history. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 13 Filer's Files #45-1998 From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:37:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:37:34 -0500 Subject: Filer's Files #45-1998 Source: http://www.ufoinfo.com/filer/1998/ff_4598.html Filer's Files #45-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer: MUFON Eastern Director, November 13, 1998 Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 Filer's Files: sponsored by Global Force Ltd GOVERNMENT HELP FOR "STAR TREK" Robert Collins reports that during a recent interview of "Star Trek" movie actor Leonard Nimoy for a magazine article he was quoted as saying, "We did receive Government help in making several of the "Star Trek" movies." The Government seemed to want to make sure we portrayed some items about Alien Lifeforms in the correct manner. I was amazed at this since the Government always made the official statement that they don't know anything about Alien Life!" Nimoy played the famous Dr. Spock in several movies and on television. Thanks to Robert Collins. NEW HAMPSHIRE My son who attends Florida Tech and I were driving to the Manchester Airport around 6:00 AM on August 15, 1998. It was when I saw a light in the distance between two hills. I screamed and said, "Did you see that?" He got a glimpse of it. I was startled, I didn't know how to react and kept looking in the sky. It resembled the emblem of the Mercedes Benz, or the horn of a Ram or a Y, that is all I can say, I was shocked and afraid thinking that it could have possibly been a sign. My son was embarking on his trip to college on an airplane. I called my husband and I told everyone, I checked in the Internet, I followed the news but no-one has mentioned anything about any other sightings. Please let me know if anyone else has come forward with such story. Thanks to: Grazia: Grazia74 RHODE ISLAND CIGAR SHAPED UFO A cigar shaped UFO and a smaller rod were recently videotaped by Jerome Turner. As we have had many questions about whether or not Rods are cigar craft this sequence seems to have put this question to rest. The cigar shaped object travels at a pretty fast clip but is left behind by the less visible Rod. The object moves slowly in the video traveling from left to right. The Rod zips by in only six frames and is tough to observe. The cigar shaped object does not show any wings or tail section throughout the sequence. It certainly seems the camera would have picked up a tail section or wings. There is nothing there to suggest a normal plane in flight. Please check out http://www.roswellrods.com/cig1.html and particularly its follow-up close-up to see the best cigar shaped photos of an UFO yet. The video-stills shown at the Website were taken in Rhode Island. This same UFO has been seen in the LaGrange, Georgia area by several over the years. Thanks to John Thompson. NEW YORK Scott Hammons reports that an employee in our front office was very excited to relay his November 6, 1998, UFO sighting. While describing the craft, another employee chimed in that she also saw the same lights hovering over New Paltz at 8:40 PM and thought "they were a formation of very unusual helicopters or something." The first employee, Shawn said that as he was driving out of our property where our road splits he saw this formation of lights and couldn't tell if they were moving or not. He stopped and got out of the car to confirm. It was a triangular formation of white lights with one red one in the center. The three outer lights moved from corner to corner simultaneously. Shawn said the craft was just hovering. After observing for a while Shawn continued driving down the mountain toward the east and saw the craft twice again hovering over the Wallkill Valley of New Paltz. It is here that the second employee saw the same formation and verified the number, movement, and color of lights, with the exception that she saw the lights move away in opposite directions. Thanks to Scott Hammons, Mohonk Mountain House, hammon79@yahoo.com ilinp1@aol.com NEW JERSEY WANAQUE RESERVOIR: On November 3, 1998, Mike, Ryan and Jordan observed UFOs When we first arrived looking south towards the hills we noticed lights. The lights seemed to be in the woods on the hill. The first light was a regular tannic white, but later a second light appeared next to it that was green. As usual there were numerous lights flying about, turning on and off, and fading in and out throughout the course of the stay. Thirty minutes after arriving a single Fourth of July style fireworks went off over the hill while the other lights were still visible. It first appeared as a big flash, then as it rose a little it flared off in a green sparkle fade, with no accompanying sound to it. I'm not sure if it was related to what we were watching, but it certainly was exciting. Also, at one point we seemed to be surrounded by them. I glanced east and noticed a craft off to the left in the sky. I pointed towards it and it turned off. I glanced west and there was another one, and before I could even say anything it turned off too. The next day, I was leaving from jury duty in Newark at about 4:30 PM. I looked up to see a light and that light was there for only three seconds before it faded out. Just down the road I witnessed another bigger light, that looked like a silver fire ball. I looked to the south and saw another with a helicopter chasing it. Thanks to Mike at MATHrk101. GEORGIA LAGRANGE--A local couple reports that they have been terrorized by so much strange and frightening activity that they are prepared to move from their home if it doesn't stop. While the couple believe their singular happenings are of a demonic or spook nature, the events have all the earmarks of inner- terrestrial (INT) alien activity. On Thursday, October 29th, at approximately 9:45 PM the husband said while alone at home he saw what he PERCEIVED as a "girl" in a long gray dress standing only eighteen feet away. The four foot tall "girl," despite facing him in a lighted room, was featureless and dark. The "dress" that the entity "wore" was flowing and of a slight lighter shade than the entity's face and shoulder length "hair." (Note: As the "hair" continued onto the "dress," the entity could have been "clothed" in a "hooded robe.") After staring at each other for two seconds, the husband said the entity "floated away. Two hours later, "a blue cast" was seen spilling under the doorway of the bedroom where the couple's daughter sleeps in. On yanking the door open, the blue light instantly disappeared. For the last four months before the sighting of the INT the couple say they have heard "walking" about their older home and unintelligible talking. Their daughter's television set has also suddenly come on in the dead of the night. The evening following the INT sighting the husband felt "something" atop of him in bed trying to suffocate him. He also believes that the foot of his bed levitated off the floor and his hair was, somehow, "made wet." Later, during the same night, he had a lucid dream where he saw the "Grim Reaper" standing at the foot of his bed. The wife and husband say at other times they have seen "shadow" like figures moving about the house. On early Friday, Nov. 6th, the husband had an audio recorder going and awoke to a loud "shotgun" like explosion that shook their house. Getting up, the husband explored inside and outside but could not find the source for the explosion. On playing the recorder the next day, the couple said two explosions and low unintelligible talking, as they have heard in the past, were recorded. MUFON general and entity case forms will be completed on the INT sighting. The recording will also be analyzed. Thanks to John C. Thompson. Copyright, 1998. All rights reserved. ILLINOIS POPULAR GROVE-- Christopher Lee Toltzman sent ISUR an October 30, 1998, sighting report. "I am writing this in partnership with the person that actually witnessed the event. We are looking for some answers to the unexplained lights that were witnessed. The person was videotaping his sons football game when he saw what appeared to be a brighter than average star on the Eastern horizon at 6:45 PM. After noticing that the light would pulse every so often, he aimed his video camera at the light. Upon doing so, it was revealed that there were three lights altogether. On the left was a light blue light, the middle light was red, and the light on the right was white. The white light on the right was approximately 3 times the size of the other two, which were approximately of the same size. The light on the left was steadily on, the middle red light would strobe on and off at an interval of once every 2 seconds, and the larger white light on the right intensified, then returned to normal once during the sighting, and then right before moving. The lights were not moving-they appeared to be hovering in place. After about 10 minutes of viewing, the middle red light stopped blinking. It started blinking again in the place where the left blue light had been. The red and blue lights had switched places. Now the red light was blinking on and off on the left, and the blue light stayed on in the middle position. After another 3 minutes of this, the lights took off from the position they held and moved from east horizon to the western horizon in a matter of a few seconds. They traveled at a high rate of speed, and went from standstill to full speed instantly. Again, we have almost the entire event on video tape showing the lights, but no detail of anything else. The videotape isn't very clear, but does show the colors, blinking, and the moving of the lights. Also, it should be noted there was no sound emitted from the lights whatsoever. This is not a hoax. We want to have it checked out if possible for explanation. We are professionals interested in getting answers, fully aware that many times these events can be explained. Thanks to ISUR isur@america.net and John Thompson: Chris Tolzman (630) 368-4367, 2000 York Road, Suite 114, Oak Brook, Illinois, 60521. Editors Note: The video can be analyzed by MUFONs photo analyst Jeff Sanio. JSAINIO@qgraph.com TEXAS Jack Carville reports that an oval shaped object with two balls extending out and downward appeared in an area between El Campo and Victoria, Texas for about a week in late August. This is a stretch of about 50 miles along the Texas Gulf Coast. Hundreds of people witnessed the object in the early morning hours. A small article appeared in the Victoria Advocate newspaper. Nothing else has been published about this object. Any other information available would be greatly appreciated. Thanks to Jack Carville, Jack_Carville@interconti.com PILOTS SIGHTING OVER ARKANSAS MUFON reports they received an e-mail message from Captain David Bertrand of Capital Cargo International Airlines that he and his crew observed an UFO near Memphis enroute to Philadelphia on July 28, 1998. At 6:20 AM Captain Bertrand, First Officer Dwight Howell and Flight Engineer Steve Franks watched an egg shaped black object at their 12 o'clock position at 33,000 feet about 40 miles west of Memphis. The object was about the size of Captain Bertrand's index fingernail. Bertrand explained the reason for his delayed report is that he saw a similar object on the TNT presentation "The Secret KGB UFO Files." Soviet MIG gun camera film was shown on the program chasing similar disc shaped objects. Thanks to Walt Andrus, MUFON director. A more detailed report can be read in the MUFON Journal. MONTANA RONA--Since November 16, 1998, there have been almost nightly sightings of UFOs in the Mission Valley area. Some 500 witnesses have observed the lights of the UFO. Allegedly F-16 aircraft from the Air National Guard unit at Great Falls International Airport have been launched to intercept. The 120th Fighter Wing indicates the Air Force does not investigate UFO sightings and will not confirm. Of course aircraft are launched on a regular basis for routine flights. The tail fin of the F-16s are painted with a dark gray bison's skull against a prairie mountain profile. Reports indicate when our fighters investigate the UFO disappears. The UFO is reported to be quite large with one continuous red light, a flickering (not blinking) green light and a flickering blue glow that appears under the craft. Outline and shape of the UFO are still undetermined at this time. The 'Lake County Leader' Newspaper 406-883-4343 and the Lake County Sheriffs Office 406-883-7279 (Polson Montana) are following the story. Incorrect reports have circulated that fighter aircraft are being launched from Malmstrom Air Force Base. This base has no runway and only uses UH-1 helicopters to support the Minuteman III missiles. ARIZONA CAMP VERDE--An October 27, 1998, Skyopen Sighting Reports states: "This morning at about 5:50 AM, I observed a formation of reddish-orange lights flying rather fast in the area of the Verde Valley Arizona. The lights were a considerable distance to the south. At first I thought I was seeing something like the big UFO over Phoenix from last year, as the unusual lights were in a rigid V-formation. It seemed very solid and my first impression was of a large object. When I got out of my car and put on my glasses, I could tell it was several miles distant. It moved towards the southwest and disappeared over the hills, then reappeared within about 30 seconds. When it came back, it was no longer in a V-formation. It flew more like a 'swarm,' I can't describe it exactly. But they were sort of flying around each other in a weird pattern, not really symmetrical. Definitely not airplane moves! The group paused for a second or two, but kept 'buzzing' around each other, then moved off to the south. I toyed with the idea that it could have been a flock of birds with light reflected on their bellies, but that really doesn't fit. Also, so far I can't find anybody in town who saw anything, except me. Thanks to Skywatch International and Deja News, http://www.dejanews.com CHINESE AIR FORCE CHASES UFO SHANGHAI -- Nov. 05, 1998 -- (Agence France Presse) The air force had a prolonged up-close encounter with a UFO last month that one fighter pilot described as "just like ones in foreign movies," a government-controlled newspaper reported Thursday. A Hebei Daily report -- carried in the news digest Baokan Wenzhai -- gave a detailed pilot's account of an aerial cat-and- mouse game played between the object and a jet fighter ordered to intercept it. At least 140 people on the ground also saw the object, it said. An editor with the Hebei Daily said the events took place on Oct. 19 and were still being investigated by local government departments. The newspaper's report and military sources quoted show an openness that contrast sharply with Washington's notorious secrecy on the topic of unidentified flying objects (UFOs). It said the encounter began when four different radar stations in northern Hebei province picked up an unknown moving target in airspace directly above a military flight training base near Changzhou City. To observers at the base, the UFO first appeared like "a small star," and then grew larger and larger, perhaps as it descended to a lower altitude, the report said. They described an object with a mushroom-shaped dome on top and a flat bottom covered with bright, continually rotating lights. A base commander surnamed Li reported to his superiors, who ordered a Jianjiao-6 armed interceptor airborne to pursue the object once checks showed no other civilian or military aircraft in the area. The two pilots aboard said the object closely resembled depiction's they had seen in foreign science fiction films. When they got within 4,000 meters (13,200 feet) of the UFO over Qing County, it abruptly shot upward, easily evading subsequent attempts to get closer. It appeared to be toying with the fighter by repeatedly outdistancing it and then reappearing just above it, the pilots said. The report said a request for permission to fire on the UFO with an onboard cannon was denied by ground command at one point. The interceptor was eventually forced to return to base after it ran out of fuel at an altitude of 12,000 meters (39,600 feet). The UFO then disappeared before two newer-model planes could get airborne, the article said. While China's racy tabloids often run stories of strange phenomena alongside celebrity-gossip and crime stories, UFO reports are seldom carried by more official papers like the Hebei Daily. c) 1998 Agence France Presse) Inside China today, http://www.insidechina.com/china/news/98110521.html Thanks to Dr. Richard Haines MACCABEE RESPONDS TO GOVERNMENT DISCS Last week British Aviation expert Bill Rose claimed many of the craft in our skies are US Government Discs. He states: "After all, they built their postwar aerospace industry on a lot of UK and Nazi technology. I doubt if Arnold was that accurate on his estimates of performance, but I think it is quite possible that a few US high performance prototypes were flown in secret which fell between the Horten lX and the Skyray. Because of Yeager's flight, they will never be revealed. But who knows?" I might add that I spoke to a man who wishes to remain anonymous who conducted the first tests on the Horten lX." Bruce Maccabee responds: "This man doubts that Arnold's speed estimate was correct. However, it is more likely correct than off by nearly a factor of three. Arnold used his dashboard clock to time the number of seconds it took for the objects to travel from Mt. Rainier to Mt. Adams. At the time he thought he was looking at some to Air Force development, so we can presume that he was being reasonably careful in his measurements. The distance was about 50 miles covered in 103 seconds. This calculates to a speed of about 1,750 mph or about 2.5 Mach. This is far above any speed attained by manned craft or projectiles in 1947. Arnold couldn't believe his own calculations and arbitrarily lowered the speed to over 1200 mph in his public statements. This is still much higher than Mach 1." Thanks to Bruce Maccabee: brumac@compuserve.com. SUBMARINE UFO SIGHTING QUESTIONED Tom Deuley MUFON Assistant to the Director writes: "I feel last week's sailor's story about seeing a UFO is questionable. There are many errors in the story based on experience of people who have served on submarines.. I Served for fourteen years in the Nuclear Subarine Service as an instructor, as a qualified Nuclear Plant Operator, as a training officer at the FBM Training Center, Charleston, and as an Assistant Weapons Officer and as a Communications Office within CINCLANTFLT. The above story has several serious holes in it that puts it in the "doubtful" category. We have contacted the sailor for further clarification. Thanks to Tom Deuley. Editor's Note: If the story is true, it appears the sailor was very inexperienced. USS Memphis is hull number SSN-691, not SSN-698. There are no attack or ballistic missile submarines homeported out of Titusville. Some are assigned there TDY for missile testing." LEONID METEOR SHOWER An important annual Leonid Meteor Shower will light up the night sky during the next week. An unusually large numbers of meteors that may qualify to be judged as a rare meteor storm! is expected. Peak meteor activity is expected on November 17 and 18. A moonless sky in both the evening and early morning will help make the meteor activity excellent for observing. With hundreds of satellites now above the earth there may be damage to satellites. Most of the meteors will appear to approach from the northeast, but you'll want to observe the entire sky particularly in the early morning hours. HELP UFO RESEARCH: FREE REAL ESTATE RELOCATION SERVICES: As a special aid to our readers, we can help you obtain the best real estate experts in your area at no cost to you. We provide free relocation information and consulting services from the largest and most respected firms. If your planning to sell or buy a home and would like a top flight real estate agent give me a call at 609 654-0020 or e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com. Filer's Files Copyright 1998 by MUFON EASTERN DIRECTOR all rights reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on their Websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item appeared. Send your letters to George A. Filer at Majorstar@aol.com. If you wish to keep your name confidential please so state in your E-mails. For more detailed investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON UFO JOURNAL by writing 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or call 1-800 UFO-2166. E- mail Mufon@aol.com.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 14 Raelians Aim To "Clone Humans By 2000" From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:30:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:57:39 -0500 Subject: Raelians Aim To "Clone Humans By 2000" Source: The (London) Times. To be admitted to the page go to http://www.the-times.co.uk/ and register. It's free. Stig ******* Saturday November 14 1998 WORLD NEWS: UNITED STATES UFO cult aims to clone humans for childless and gay couples by 2000 FROM GILES WHITTELL IN LOS ANGELES HUMAN cloning is banned in 19 countries, including all of Western Europe, but members of a fringe UFO-based religion founded by a French sports journalist are determined to make it happen. For $200,000 (=A3123,000) per baby, a company called Clonaid is offering to produce genetic twins of adult parents for infertile and homosexual couples, and is predicting success by 2000. Its founders would doubtless have been dismissed by mainstream science as delusionary, but for one thing: they are completely serious. Cloning has come a long way even in the 18 months since Dr Ian Wilmut of Scotland produced Dolly, the world's first cloned sheep. So says Dr Brigitte Boisselier, scientific director of Clonaid and a bishop in the so-called Raelian religion, which holds that life on Earth was created 25,000 years ago with DNA imported by aliens. Dr Boisselier has chemistry doctorates from universities in Dijon and Houston and is at pains to distinguish between her scientific and religious beliefs. "I'm a scientist and very pragmatic even if I do believe in little green men," she told The Times this week. Nonetheless, there is no hiding the fact that an obscure group of ufologists is at the forefront of an unofficial race to break one of science's last great taboos.More than 100 couples and individuals have approached Clonaid hoping to be replicated from their own DNA and willing to pay a high price, Dr Boisselier claims. Twenty per cent of them are gay and all are would-be parents "who can't have children any other way", she says. They cannot have children by cloning either - yet. The technique used to produce Dolly from a single adult cell was far from foolproof; it worked in only one of 277 attempts. Since then, American scientists have produced three cloned calves and two rhesus monkeys using more sophisticated procedures. But no one has yet cloned a major primate, let alone a human. Experts and politicians have condemned the idea as an ethical minefield and scientifically risky, but few doubt it will be tried. Human cloning "is no longer in the realm of science fiction", Lee Silver, a Princeton geneticist, said this summer. "The technological breakthrough has already happened. The details of how to do this with human cells still need to be worked out but once they're refined, it'll just be a matter of time." Should that time come, DNA samples from Clonaid clients will be used to "activate" host human cells in laboratories where the process is legal, likely to be in the Third World. Cloned human embryos would then be implanted in their mother's (or a surrogate mother's) uterus, using techniques with a success rate of around 20 per cent. For Clonaid it will be a foothold in what Dr Boisselier believes will be a $2 billion-a-year industry. For Raelians it will be the dawn of a new era. Their religion was founded in the 1970s by Claude Vorilhon, a former sport reporter. Now based in Canada, he has changed his name to Rael and built a UFO theme park outside Montreal. He claims that aliens visited him in 1973 to reveal the role of cloning as a "gateway to eternity". Copyright 1998 Times Newspapers Ltd. This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard terms and conditions. To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from The Times, visit the Syndication website.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 14 Re: Is 'Dr.' Fiore any More? From: Tim Brigham <devilsad@ksinc.net> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:14:51 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 17:57:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Is 'Dr.' Fiore any More? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> To: UFO UpDates Subscribers :; <UFO UpDates Subscribers :;> Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 6:18 PM Subject: UFO UpDate: Is 'Dr.' Fiore any More? >Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:24:23 -0800 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Is Dr. Fiore any More'? >Howdy fellow Youfers* >Did Dr. Edith Fiore lose her psych. license? I thought I saw a >post a few months ago that she had. >Am I correct? >No more alien and spirits of the dead exorcisms with crystals? >Joshman Yes, it's, true. The following post from my Devil's Advocate site www.devilsadvocate.base.org reprinted from Klass/SUN. Best, Tim _____________ 4-24-'98 Courtesy of SUN and the dreaded Brother Phil Klass Prominent psychotherapist Dr. Edith Fiore of Saratoga, Calif., one of the earliest to embrace teh reality of UFO abductions and other far- out ideas, agreed to surrender her license on Aug. 10 after the California State Board of Psychology charged her with "being grossly negligent" in the treatment of a female patient identified as JH. In 1989, Fiore authored a book, Encounter: A Psychologist Reveals Case Studies of Abductions by Extraterrestrials. This is teh second time that the California Board has revoked the license of a psychotherapist who attempted to convince patients they had suffered UFO abductions. Two years ago, the Board revoked the license of Dr. Richard ["Hot Tub"] Boylan of Sacramento, who also specialized in treating patients he believed had been abducted by UFOs. (SUN #37) According to an article in the August 20 edition of the Saratoga News, one of the charges against Fiore was that she used an unusual treatment procedure without obtaining patient JH's consent. According to JH, by means of hypnosis, Fiore claimed yo have removed "90 entities, comprised of dead persons" from JH's body. Then, JH said that Fiore told her "they should explore whether JH may have ben abducted by Unidentified Flying Objects." the article noted that after 3 years Fiore can request reinstatement of her license. But if granted, Fiore would have to pay the cost of the Board's investigation: $10,706. (SUN wonders when other states will follow California's lead. And when persons without psychotherapist training will be prosecuted for using hypnosis to "treat" UFO-abduction "experiencers." DA comments- *sigh* Let us be kind and say that we merely wonder how some people achieve certain positions which give them a license to practice psychotherapy in the first place, and more importantly, that if there are people who are suffering from genuine psychological trauma (and it appears there are) because of some sort of experience, which they may contribute to alien abduction (whether or not said trauma is the result of an "alien abduction" we will not discuss here) they need real and competent treatment to help them. We agree in full with Klass on this one, and simply wonder if these folks aren't doing more harm to their "patients" than good. www.devilsadvocate.base.org www.mindphuck.home.ml.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 14 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:16:06 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:01:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:50:44 -0000 >4 - The ease with which the USAF and US Navy intelligence people >were able to pull the wool over researchers eyes - and how they >are still doing so. 5 - The complete inability of the UFO >research community to sensibly come to terms with black projects >without going into the realms of fantasy (Tesla technology, >anti-gravity systems, Nazi occult magic, time travel etc. etc.). >Tim Matthews. >---------- I would like to object to your use of the word: "realms of fantasy (Tesla technology.....etc." It is more than well documented that Tesla's work was NOT fantasy...The man had taken to task one of the Great Inventors, Mr. Thomas Edison, and showed the mans closed mindedness; similar to what I have read above. Mr. Tesla was introduced to Mr. Edison by a letter which he hand delivered from Edison's closest associate, origionally from England, Charles Batchelor, who was an Inventor, himself. When he came to Edison to apply for a position at his Pearl Street laboratory in New York City in the Spring of 1884, Edison ask Tesla: "What can you do for me?" To which Tesla replied that he had already done it... Tesla had redesigned Edison's DC motor commutator and made it more effecient. Not only had he done that, but he had done what his Professor at the University of Graz, in Austria, Professor Poeschi, said could not be done: "It would be equivalent to converting a steady pulling force like gravity into a rotary effort. It is a perpetual motion scheme, an impossible idea." What was that? He had discovered that the communicator in the DC motor could be eliminated and electricity could be harnessed in its natural state...(AC), Alternating Current. That was in the Mid-1870's, and in February, 1882, he finally solved the problem and set himself apart from all of his contemporaries, and created one of the most important inventions of the modern era. In early 1883, he constructed the first ever AC induction Motor, that remains virtually unchanged today, One hundred and fifteen years later. Tesla had not simply designed a more efficient machine, he had discovered "a new principle to electricity!" As hard as he tried, he could not convince Mr. Thomas Alva Edison, to accept his AC motors and Edison continued to use DC Current and Motors for the next 20 years. While Edison was lighting London with DC power, Tesla constructed the Niagara Falls Power Co, which was financed and owned by George Westinghouse, with which he produced AC power for the state of New York. Tesla's large coils became popular in the film industry in the 1920's - 30's in the Frankenstine movies and other si-fi movies as well. His wireless creations also set the stage for "neon lights, flourscent lights, beam emission devices (Laser Beams), oscillators, resonant transformers, receiving insturments (wireless communications),remote control, robots, which he called the telautomation, and vertical take-off aircraft." He displayed these creations in public lectures in "New York, Philadelphia, St. Louis and Chicago, in America and to scientific organizatons and royality in England, France, Germany and Austro-Hungary." All of this in the early 1890's... "In the early 1890's, Tesla published his results in numerous electrical journals and popular magazines and also in the text: `THE INVENTIONS, RESEARCHES AND WRITINGS OF NIKOLA TESLA,' which was edited by Thomas Commerford Martin. Clearly, this work in wireless predated Marconi's radio experiments by at least four years. Tesla's fundamental creations contained all of the tuning and receiving apparatuses needed for the modern radio, and all of these ideas were patented." Tesla was finally vendicated in 1997 when he was officially named the "inventor of the Radio..." and Marconi's name was removed. "In 1893, Tesla described his scheme at the National Electric Light Associantion: `The idea of transmitting intelligence without wires is the natural outcome of the most recent results of electrical investigatons...We now know electrical vibrations may be transmitte through a single conductor. Why not then try to avail our- selves of the earth for this purpose?...A point of great importance would be first to know what is the capacity of the Earth and what charge does it contain when electrified.'" "By looking at the upper atmosphere of low air pressure, the lower atmosphere of dense air pressure and the ground itself, Tesla saw the planet as a giant condenser. Finding its period of vibration and establishing a flow of current through this large conductor would allow electricity, light, sound and even power to be transmitted to any distance. In particular, AM radio today makes use of Tesla currents transmitted along the ground whereas FM radio and TV sends most of its energy through the air. As lightning utilizes electrified earth currents which circulate within the planet (called telluric currents), Tesla also envisioned a fantastic scheme for controlling the weather and illuminating the atmosphere over shipping lanes above the ocean! He also began to set his sights on providing cheap wireless power for the masses." * I won't continue any further...I think history records that this man's work was not fantasy. It would to us good to consider the possibility that his major break through, which his college professor, said was "impossible," may very well have been the "key" to the process of harnessing rotating magnetic fields for the development of power sources for earth made flying discs. REgards, Mike * The above information was taken from the booklet entitled: NIKOLA TESLA The Man Who Harnessed Niagara Falls By Marc Seifer MetaScience Publications Kingston, Rhode Island 02881
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 14 Re: Strange Case of Dr. Reed & the Alien Body... From: michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:38:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:19:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Strange Case of Dr. Reed & the Alien Body... >From: Diana Botsford <ddbh@email.msn.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body Snatchers >Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:28:53 -0600 >>Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:57:12 -0500 >>From: michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body Snatchers >>I have spent quite some time looking at this photograph, and >>for the life of me I can't find the large rock that you >>mentioned in your post. >Michael, et al: >Even easier to spot - look at the big dried at ferns on the >right. You'll see the reflectivity from the overhead sun there. >And behind the ship, up in the trees - look at the horizontal >fir tree branches that are also displaying some reflectivity >from the sun - light source. > >Hope that helps. >Diana Botsford Diana, Thanks for the info but I must dissagree with you on the area involved. According to Dr. Reed he was about 30 feet from the craft and close to the ground when he took his picture. Looking at this picture it seems to me that the ground is dropping away towards the woods behind the craft. Also the "object", which is what Dr. Reed called it, not a 'craft' seems to me to be somewhat beyond the weeds rather than hovering right over them. If this is the case as it appears to myself then the shadow if there was one would not be visible in the picture at all. Dr. Reed said the object was 4 1/2 feet wide and 9 feet long and 2 ft. high, approximately. He also stated a longer exposure time on the film. He also stated that because of his emotional and mental state, he got close to the ground to steady the camera. Art seems to think there is some convincing evidence on the video. As for the rock you spoke about I already gathered that you had mistaken the fern bush with the golden or brown leaves for the rock. At this present time I myself have decided not to label this as a hoax, but rather think I will wait a while and see what develops.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 14 Re: Camp Borden and UFOs From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 02:08:16 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:27:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Camp Borden and UFOs Dear Jim, Nick and Errol: Please see below: >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:57:23 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Re: Camp Borden and UFOs >>Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:56:00 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Camp Borden and UFOs >>Hi Errol, >>Maybe there is a now forgotten reason why UFO books >>at one time in the past could only be found in the >>Occult Section of bookstores... ><snip> >Stateside, any large booksellers have the UFO section mixed in >with New Age..... UFO related material, in fact, can only be >found under the New Age banner.... >This is interesting in that it reflects the manner in which this >subject is perceived by the ROW (Rest Of the World)..... the ROW >being anyone not interested in the subject sufficiently to >actually look for books on the subject ... therefore those who >are (interested in the subject) immediately flock to the New Age >section in order to find UFO material and we wonder why the hell >it's there! At least I do. >And as long as I am opining once again, there is little which is >shared between New Age and UFOs except that each may be >perceived as strange enough to lump them together along with >witches, channeling, ghosts. Poltergeists and etc. >Hmmm.... on the other hand.....?!? Nah. >Jim Mortellaro Many years ago I naively asked where the UFO books were in a large local non-chain bookstore. This particular store was a sort of haunt for left-of-center self-styled intellectuals, among other things. (One time some neo-nazi type fired a bullet through the plate glass window! Fortunately he was caught.) The fellow behind the counter, who appeared to write me off as a dolt, directed me to the Occult section. I believe I detected a note of self righteousness. (Is self-leftousness a word? ) I found a rather poor selection of UFO books, but there were tons of stuff on astrology, Edgar Cayce .. you name it .. even different versions of the Tarot deck, all artful and pricey. Now, at least at Barnes and Noble, I find them in the "Alternative Reality" section, ( my term, I forget how they labeled those shelves ) which is basically new age, new religion, with a lot of occult sprinkled in. I do not expect to find UFO books sandwiched in between the classics of physics and chemistry. What they could do, space permitting, would be to set aside a shelf or two for fringe sciences; subjects like exobiology, xenobiology (bigfoot/loch-ness monster etc.), ESP and a host of other topics that are interesting but unproven. But, aha! Therein lies the rub! All the stuff I frown on would try to jump onto the same shelf! Astrologers would point to what they consider good evidence. Remote viewing, near-death experience, every guest Art Bell ever had .. they would all demand space on this same shelf! Maybe we were better off in the 'occult' days. The Tarot cards had some really good artwork, and the leftists didn't complain if I lit up a cigarette. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 14 Montana UFOs Said To Have Eluded Multiple F-16 From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:16:40 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:30:02 -0500 Subject: Montana UFOs Said To Have Eluded Multiple F-16 Stunning Ronan, Montana UFOs Said To Have Eluded Multiple F-16 Intercepts 11-5-98 Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:38:52 +0000 From: "Robert A.M. Stephens" sti3818@montana.com Reply-To: sti3818@montana.com Organization: Stillwater Mills RONAN, MONTANA - UFO reported by several hundred witnesses and two local papers over the Mission Valley in western Montana. The sightings began 10-16-1998 and have continued at various intervals and various durations since, up to this report filing of 10-31-1998. They have occurred somewhere between the hours of 2AM and 5AM on non pattern evenings. The UFO is roughly located above the immense Mission Mountain Range hovering in place at approximately 20,000 feet above sea level and 9,000 feet above the top of the Mission Range. It is reported, as of this writing, by more than 500 witnesses including professional, police personnel who have gone on record, night shift workers, travelers, and locals as well as others in witnessing these unknown-origin craft. The UFO is reported to be quite large with one continuous red light, a flickering (not blinking) green light and a flickering blue glow that appears under the craft. Outline and shape has been undetermined at this time for the UFO. The primary locale for observation of the craft has been in and around areas of Polson Montana, a town of 6000 that is located 10 miles north of the town of Ronan. At Ronan a large manufacturing facility is located 2 miles south of the town off highway 93 which runs north and south as does the Mission Range itself and the valley that lays below to the west of the range. At this manufacturing facility many of the night shift have been observing the UFO in the same location and time for the last week or more. Scott Johnson, night shift foreman for the manufacturing company, has brought his entire night shift outside on the east side of the facility to observe the craft during breaks on various evenings. Mr. Johnson has stated when interviewed, "this is not a vehicle of known origin. Its behavior, its ability to hover as it does, its soundless in that it is strictly visual, all make for something that is not natural by our standards of known air vehicles." On the latest night of observation, 10-30-1998, there were two of the UFOs roughly at the same altitude but approximately 9 miles apart. No one has seen the vehicles appear or have noted when they leave. They are just there when they are noticed and after several hours they are gone. Conditions in the area have been cloudless, clear, and cold temperatures. There has been no other air craft in the area at the time of the UFOs presence over the entire 700 square mile area of the Mission Valley where the observations have been reported from. The only contingent element is the fact Malstrom Air Force Base is exactly due east of the sighting location for the UFOs at 200 miles. A further report excerpted from the two local papers that have covered the sightings in depth as well as further observations of the UFOs as they appear in upcoming nights will be posted and filed here accordingly. END Reported by: Robert A.M. Stephens STILLWATER MILLS Contractor, NASA Shuttle Documentation Program St. Ignatius, Montana sti3818@montana.com This may be copied, reproduced and distributed in any way, as long as it remains in its entirety and this notice is NOT removed, and no profit is made from the use thereof. Additional Email Correspondence From Mr. Stephens Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 06:27:05 -0600 From: Mike Beaver <yoda@band1.bandwidth.net To: eotl@west.net Subject: The Ronan, Montana Story - Details I thought you might not have Mike Beaver wrote: Dear Mr. Stephens: In the email passed around on the UFONetwork it doesn't mention the name of the company that the ufos are seen at. Nor does it mention the newspapers that picked up the story. Can you please fill in some informational gaps in the story. I'm wondering why the major media hasn't jumped on this considering the magnitude of the sightings; lengthwise and all? Sincerely; Mike Beaver yoda@band1.bandwidth.net Robert A.M. Stephens wrote: I'm not a UFO buff, per se. Just reported what others had reported to me and asked if I would compile a story of the event on the net. In interviewing for this story the manufacturing company did not want its name used. The employees at the same company and law enforcement personnel had no problem going on record. As of last night, the UFO was back, the 14 night out of the lat 17 since the event first occured, further south, and 4000' feet lower. Tonight cloud cover is 70%, thus we were going to try and scope it and get some data on the thing. (To) No Avail. The Newspaper in question is the: 'Lake County Leader' 406-883-4343 (Polson Montana) Lake County Sheriffs Office 406-883-7279 (Polson Montana) As far as the media outside of Montana its the same as its ever been I suppose. Government believes and hides--public dumb. I don't know why. Robert A.M. Stephens __________________________________ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 21:50:04 +0000 From: "Robert A.M. Stephens" <sti3818@montana.com To: Larry Maurer <unitel@unitelnw.com Subject: Re: Laser Propulsion/where? Larry Maurer wrote: Dear Bob: Please check out our web site under Aerospace to find out why the red, green & blue. These are undobtedly our crafts. Please note we saw the crafts on more than one occaision. Once at a distance of ten feet away in on Oct. 18, 1981. We reported it to FBI in 1986 after finding out that the US government does not have this technology. We now have official patent and are ready to build. I would like to hear from you. Thanks, Sincerely, Larry D. Maurer Director, Engineering ---------------------------- Robert A.M. Stephens wrote: For 11 of the 16 nights hence the first sighting at 1:23 AM, 10-16-1998, there have been numerous air vehicles attempt to intercept the bogeys after they have appeared and stayed in one locale. The interception attempts have failed by those of local magistrate who have taken this to task. Malstrom Air Force Base pilots have attmepted to intercept said bogeys after they are in place. They too have been unsuccessful in that the bogeys seem to 'phase' away into nothing when any of the nine F-16s that have been deployed have come close to them. I find this inexplicable, but then so do many others I have contacted. I am trying to get infrared gun camera footage of this phenomenon at this time through various long time NASA/Malstrom contacts I received two emails in response from this report among several hundred, that, these were our craft. Having spent a great deal of time at Dryden Air Force Station at Edwards Air Force Base in CA and with NASA at KSC over the last 19 years I can attest these unknowns are not of our technical ablility at this time. Unless evidence to the contrary can be produced this conclusion must still stand. What is the address of your website [URL]? Could not find anything in relation to your insinuation above. Am most interested. Also, please clarify the 'we' part of your mail. Thanks. Sincerely, Robert A.M. Stephens Contractor, NASA Shuttle Documentation Program ____ Comment By William MacIntosh <wmacintosh@home.com 11-8-98 Hello, In reference to your "Stunning Ronan, Montana UFOs Said To Have Eluded Multiple F-16 Intercepts", an interesting thought occurred and I thought to pass it along. Could this craft simply be a "Holographic Image"? It has all the earmarks of a possible military test of a new high power image projector. Please look at these statements carefully - Quoting your article: 1.) " The UFO is reported to be quite large with one continuous red light, a flickering (not blinking) green light and a flickering blue glow that appears under the craft." 2.) "Mr. Johnson has stated when interviewed, "this is not a vehicle of known origin. Its behavior, its ability to hover as it does, its soundless in that it is strictly visual, all make for something that is not natural by our standards of known air vehicles."" 3.) "No one has seen the vehicles appear or have noted when they leave. They are just there when they are noticed and after several hours they are gone." 4.) "They too have been unsuccessful in that the bogeys seem to 'phase' away into nothing when any of the nine F-16s that have been deployed have come close to them." Three primary color light emanations are clearly evident (Red, Blue & Green). These same three colors are used in all image reproduction equipment such as TV's, digital movie projectors and very high tech holographic projectors. To the eye a modulated light beam would appear to flicker, not strobe or flash but described precisely and accurately as "flickering". It's very curious to note that this craft (image?) never appeared to move, ever! Not vertically or laterally, it simply appeared or disappeared (phased?) like the activation or deactivation of a projector? Absolutely no noise came from this supposed craft, described as "strictly visual"! Then when approached this image simply "phases away". All these statements would tend to make one think that nothing physical was actually there in Montana, just light! It is common knowledge that government contractors developing, God knows what, requires proper testing to certify operability of their equipment for sale to our Government. I believe that a new ultra high tech holographic projector was being operationally demonstrated and a UFO image was used as cover. What precisely is being manufactured at this company? You know, the one that wishes to not be named. Thank you again, William MacIntosh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News: UFOSEEK... For the Source! www.ufoseek.org "Pictures of SETI Signals from unknown engineer in the UK" Contact1450 - Mirror Site: UPDATED (since Nov.3) http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 14 UFO Lecture in Brazil From: A. J. Gevaerd <gevaerd@ufo.com.br> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:46:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 19:06:56 -0500 Subject: UFO Lecture in Brazil Hi Folks! For those living in Northern Italy and Bologna area, I want to inform that I will be presenting a lecture on UFOs sightings and ET contacts in Brazil for the "Centro Accademico di Studi Ufologici", from S. M. Maddalena (RO). The conference will be addressed on November 21 during the International Symposium on UFOs of Occhiobello, "INCONTRI ANNO 1". The Symposium will be held at the City Hall of S. M. Maddalena and will be sponsored by the municipality of Occhiobello. The following speakers will also be present: Professor Sebastiano Di Gennaro, Matteo Tenan, Mirko Bisi, Giancarlo Morsiani, Antonello Lupino, Paulo Sturla, Alvaro Palanga, Gianni Viola (all from Italy), plus Robert Dean (USA), Antonio Ribera (Spain) and Michael Heseman (Germany). Information about the program can be obtained with Matteo Tenan (labor@global.it). The topics that I will present include an update on the Varginha Case (January 20, 1996), a report about the Brazilian military Operation Saucer (conducted in 1977), including an extensive interview with its commander, col. Uyrange Hollanda. Finally, I will be presenting some of the best cases reported and researched in Brazil in the past 2 years, including a whole new set of images. Those interested in attending should contact Matteo at the above address. Please be welcome. A. J. Gevaerd editor, Brazilian UFO Magazine Private: gevaerd@ufo.com.br Corporate: ufo@ufo.com.br
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 14 Alien Microchip Speculation From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:12:04 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 19:12:11 -0500 Subject: Alien Microchip Speculation CNET NEWS.COM DISPATCH Friday, November 13, 1998 30 new stories as of 1:45 PM PT TODAY'S TOP STORIES -- Alien chip http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C28737.html?dd.ne.tx.ts1.1113 -- Another Microsoft shakedown http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C28731.html?dd.ne.tx.ts2.1113 -- Wireless Windows http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C28771.html?dd.ne.tx.ts3.1113 ________________________________________________________________ SPONSOR GET GREAT DAILY DEALS @ NECX (prices till 11/15/98): $1399.95 - AMS Roadster 15CTA K-2/300 32/2.1GB Notebook $249.95 - Sony 5X Internal DVD-ROM Drive W/MPEG2 Card- WOW! $769.95 - Kodak DC260 Megapixel Digital Camera - SUPER Gift! GET IT NOW @ NECX http://www.computers.com/dd/ad/1%2C144%2C0-11049801%2C00.html?dd.ex.co.ad.necx ________________________________________________________________ TOP STORIES Alien chip The ultra-secret Silicon Valley start-up, Transmeta, is inadvertently clearing some of the mystery surrounding its new chip. The patent is revealing a chip that runs Intel and Windows, only much faster than anything prior. Experts speculate that the microprocessor is reverse engineered from alien technology. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C28737.html?dd.ne.tx.ts1.1113
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 14 Alfred's Odd Ode #280 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:04:45 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 19:14:26 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #280 Apology to MW #280 (For November 14, 1998) I stood as I looked into twinkling dark skies. Skies, yes, _incapable_ of telling your lie. The kind of a sky that snatches your breath; a beautiful sky to preclude your distress. The sky, though still dark, was alive with the light that foments contentment, increasing delight. And _in_ it appeared, so abruptly I'm startled, A CRAFT (?) -- or A LIGHT (?) well, _you_ call it, Ronald! And it swayed (!) and was _pulsing_ across the dark sky! It's speed was inconstant! I'm seeing this, Clyde! And, I know I sound crazy! But, I know it's obverse! So, I can't tell you outright; I _must_ tell it in verse! It wafted along! It's purpose a mystery, it challenges stories -- upending History! Washing away all those tales we're told that deify *fathers*, who make us _less_ bold. Stories of heroes to which _you're_ compared. You don't measure up; you're *unworthy*, Pierre! I portend history's truth , a ragged weave we should despise. A _damned_ convenient tapestry, and a cloth of artful lies . . . For I so _saw_ *it* flying in the speckled sky above! It was certainly not an air plane, or a sea gull or a dove! This thing was not an airship, or a storm cloud, or a finch. It wasn't Phil Klass swamp gas, then, you charmless skepti-bitch. And then at once it brightened, and I thought it would explode! It dead _stopped_ in the star field and then it flickered and it glowed! I held my breath to wait and see what this might _be_ about, and a reverse of the beginning (!) as it flickered and went out! Then -- I looked befuddled into empty star filled space, my chin around my knocking, skinny knees -- I'm so amazed; *brother* lights came out to play along the path it traced (!), and flashing red and white they're gone, departing with some haste!?! All the stars are laughing then, it seems so on reflection, that I was there to _witness_ this anomalies detection. That I could be one _sensing_ this unnatural point of light that is showing up peculiarly, inconclusive -- out of night (?!?) . . . that I can see this strangeness so avoided by the news -- that I may clearly fathom all the wonder it imbues. . . . So I will not, then, be buying what our founding father's said, as it's clearly not been truthful, cousin -- listen to me Fred! And still the sky is laughing like it's told the biggest joke. Uncaring and unmindful, and not swayed by normal folk. Not me, at least, it makes no sense, our entropy of innocence; the desolation of the self; the final loss of lesser health. The death of all your cares and loves. The losses twixt your hawks and doves. You so choose, there's something to it; hated or alone, you blew it? And STILL I see anomaly in the blackened Autumn night. Lights that move so strangely, but shall _not_ increase my fright. In fact they are a _comfort_ when compared to my own kind who would let our own just starve to death -- driven crazy, sick, and blind! The lights can be a pleasure, yes (!), compared to me and you, or the _sickness_ of the hatred twixt the Christian/Moslem/Jew. The lights are much preferred, my friend, to governments of hate -- that lead us down a prim rose path. . .some hateful, loathsome fate. And me? Well, I'll be watching for those lighted cosmic ships. The one's that I've _seen_ sailing in an ocean sky eclipsed. And I _won't_ await agreement, or a scientific nod, or the words of Christian ministers, or the mewling of a knob. I've seen them fly -- god damn it! How worthy, then, your sneer (I've come to understand, so well, just masks and hides your fear)! You think that I'm affected by your lies and obfuscation; you think that I'm controlled or led by vast prevarication; you're thinking I'm a hapless clone to listen and obey -- your drone? Get a grip, you're almost over -- those times are fast a changin', Grover! Lehmberg@snowhill.com When you look, you find! Restore John Ford! -- Explore the Alien View! Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ <Updated 12 September> John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. "Only thin, _very light_ envelopes with a return address will be accepted <g>." ~~~ $200.00 pledged -- $100.00 collected ~~~ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 14 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Lynda Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:42:17 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 19:52:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >Date: 13 November 1998 13:44 >Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:16:20 +0100 (MET) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:50:44 -0000 >>It ain't no theory; it is Secret Weapon Fact as the detailed >>history of certain older black projects indicate. No doubt back >>in the late 1980s you would have been denying the existence of >>the F-117A!! Just in case you think that just flying disc >>technologies are kept under wraps it might be of interest to >>note that Lockheed's Gusto programme still has classified >>elements - as do many other similar efforts. >Hi Tim, >Please enlighten us as to what the Gusto program is. >(It may be that has come up on this list earlier, but >in any case I missed it.) Lockheed Gusto, 1960 - various designs including a pure delta, boomerang-shaped design etc. See Miller's 'Lockheed Skunk Works'..... Tim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 15 Re: Report On 1998 Show-Me UFO Conference From: Bob Soetebier <bikebob@mo.net> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 20:12:38 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:45:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Report On 1998 Show-Me UFO Conference >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:11:31 -0600 (CST) >From: Bob Soetebier <bikebob <bikebob@mo.net>> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Report on 1998 Show-Me UFO Conference All: Since Stan Friedman has not had a chance, as yet, to add this comment to the list, I suspect that he that he may be otherwise occupied elsewhere at the moment and has not had a chance to see it's public posting to the list. I'm sure he will not mind my sending along his very kind, and diplomatic, clarification response to my "Report" (which I posted to the list the other day) on the Oct., 1998, "Show-Me" UFO conf. Take care, Bob Soetebier St. Louis County, Missouri Tailwinds to you... See you ON the road! /// BICYCLE BOB /// bikebob@mo.net ----------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:45:04 -0600 (CST) From: bikebob <bikebob@Walden.MO.NET> To: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Subject: Re: Report on 1998 Show-Me UFO Conf. >STF wrote: >Nice review Bob. The new versions of the NSA affidavit is only >25% censored. The newly "released" 156 NSA UFO documents seem >to be about 95% censored with white out. STF Stan, Glad you liked it. Since I didn't take any notes, and just wrote the report a week later (and, sleep-deprived at that,) I guess "artistic license" might yield a "75%" overall average. :) Take care, Bob S. Tailwinds to you... See you ON the road! /// BICYCLE BOB /// bikebob@mo.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 15 'Faces of the Visitors' From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:11:45 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:38:22 -0500 Subject: 'Faces of the Visitors' Errol and List - When Russ Estes and I published 'Faces of the Visitors', one of the reviewers claimed we had ripped the idea from Patrick Huyghe. The truth was that all of us seemed to have had the same idea at the same time. In fact, our book had been rejected at AVON because they had just bought the Huyghe book. It is not unlike the situation in which a number of inventions were created at the same time but only one person gets the create. The radio and airplane come to mind. I would have brought this up at all, but Russ and I have another book, 'Spaceships of the Visitors' coming out. We've been working on it for about a year now. I just learned that AVON has a book coming out that deals with the space craft reported over the last fifty years. I just wanted everyone to know that we haven't seen that book and didn't ripoff the idea. I don't know who is doing the AVON book but ours is coming out from Simon & Schuster, as did 'Faces'. Now the reviewers, who might not like the book (who can tell what motivates reviewers) won't be able to say that we ripped off the idea. We came up with it as the natural follow up to Faces. And yes, we know what the next follow up should be and have discussed it with the publisher already. Thanks.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 15 Mexican 'Flap' From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:40:10 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:42:17 -0500 Subject: Mexican 'Flap' Dear colleagues, Can anyone point me in the direction of a web site that deals with the Mexican flap of UFO sightings, many of which as we know have been captured on video and have been the topic of lectures by Jaimie Maussan (probably spelt incorrectly). If anyone could point me in the right directio I'd appreciate it if they could e-mail me direct on: el51@dial.pipex.com Many thanks, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 15 Bassett on Laura Lee - Saturday - 11/14 From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 20:18:31 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:47:05 -0500 Subject: Bassett on Laura Lee - Saturday - 11/14 [A little dated - but Laura keeps .ra archives via her site --ebk] FYI, Stephen Bassett of Paradigm Research Group will be the lead guest on the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 BWW Media Alert 19981114 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:07:40 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:17:25 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 19981114 Bufo Calvin P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo calvin<;/a><BR> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/bufosweirdworld"> Link to Amazon.com</a><BR> ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it). November 14, 1998 Next week's Media Alert will be affected by the holiday. I'll get as far as I can in this one. This will probably also affect the speed with which I respond to e-mails that week. This year, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL is not running its annual PHENOMATHON of ARTHUR C. CLARKE programming on the day after Thanksgiving. It has a RAGING PLANET marathon instead. On to the listings: Times are generally Pacific. RADIO SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO (with Jeff Rense: see website at http://www.sightings.com for stations, etc. Can be heard through the web.) Sunday, November 15: LIVE From England: Tim Matthews: Human UFO Technology Monday, November 16: Dr. Chet Snow: Mass Dreams Of The Future Tuesday, November 17: Michael Glickman: Analysis Crop Circles Of 1998 Stan Weinberg: Bio-Chem Safety Products Wednesday, November 18: Michael Lindemann: Weekly UFO/ET Update Chris Toussaint: Latest UFO Video Release Thursday, November 19: Dr. Louis Turi: Nostradamus Divine Astrology Readings Friday, November 20: Dr. Shakuntala Modi, MD: Past Life Causes Of Mental/Physical Disease Saturday, November 21: David John Oates (reverse speech) TELEVISION A&E Sunday, November 15, 1:00 AM, WHERE ARE ALL THE UFOS? (narrated by Michael Dorn) Sunday, November 14, 3:00 PM, THE UNEXPLAINED: EXORCISTS Next Saturday, November 21, 12:00 PM, WHERE ARE ALL THE UFOS? (narrated by Michael Dorn) Next Saturday, November 21, 2:00 PM, THE NEW EXPLORERS: BRINGING UFOS DOWN TO EARTH (sightings in Brazil and Mexico; hoaxes) Next Sunday, November 22, 6:00 AM, THE NEW EXPLORERS: BRINGING UFOS DOWN TO EARTH (sightings in Brazil and Mexico; hoaxes) THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL Sunday, November 15, 1:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: LAKE MONSTER (Champ of Lake Champlain) Sunday, November 15, 1:30 PM, STRANGE BUT TRUE: haunted castle hotel Thursday, November 19, 9:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: CHINESE WILDMAN Thursday, November 19, 9:30 PM, STRANGE BUT TRUE: ANIMAL HEALINGS; GHOST STORIES Friday, November 20, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: CHINESE WILDMAN Friday, November 20, 1:30 AM, STRANGE BUT TRUE: ANIMAL HEALINGS; GHOST STORIES Friday, November 20, 10:00 PM, MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED: STRANGE BEINGS AND UFOS (includes the Yeti and Loch Ness Monster) Saturday, November 21, 2:00 AM, MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED: STRANGE BEINGS AND UFOS (includes the Yeti and the Loch Ness Monster) Saturday, November 21, 2:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: STRANGE POWERS OF ANIMALS Saturday, November 21, 2:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: SPIRITS OF PLACE: HAUNTINGS AND GHOSTS Saturday, November 21, 5:00 PM, MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED: STRANGE BEINGS AND UFOS (includes the Yeti and the Loch Ness Monster) Next Sunday, November 22, 1:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: CHINESE WILDMAN Next Thursday, November 26, 9:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: SEA SERPENT Next Friday, November 27, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: SEA SERPENT Next Saturday, November 28, 2:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERIOUS INDIA Next Saturday, November 28, 2:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES Two weeks from Sunday, November 29, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MONSTERS FROM THE DEEP Two weeks from Sunday, November 29, INTO THE UNKNOWN: SEA SERPENT Two weeks from Sunday, November 29, STRANGE BUT TRUE: PSYCHIC DETECTIVES FOX Monday, November 23 (times vary), COPS: haunting LOCAL TELEVISION KIXE, Sacramento area, California, next Thursday, November 26, 8:00 PM, GREAT DRIVES: (Graham Greene drives Highway 93 looking for UFOs) MTV Next Thursday, November 26, 1:00 AM, ROAD RULES: UFO STORIES (don't know if this is really appropriate or not) Next Thursday, November 26, 3:00 AM, ROAD RULES: haunted hotel THE SCIENCE CHANNEL The new schedule is weird programming for an hour each at 6:00 AM, 2:00 PM, and 10:00 PM. Rotating shows include: INTO THE UNKNOWN, STRANGE BUT TRUE, and ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE. THE SCI-FI CHANNEL Sun, November 15 7:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4050: Zimbabwe sightings; psychic healing; exorcism; simulated out-of-body experience; "peeking Casper" Sun, November 15 11:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4050: Zimbabwe sightings; psychic healing; exorcism; simulated out-of-body experience; "peeking Casper" Mon, November 16 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4051: haunting; filiming UFOs; psychics and MIAs; alien abductions; labyrinths Mon, November 16 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #103: GHOST ENCOUNTERS Mon, November 16 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #103: GHOST ENCOUNTERS Tue, November 17 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4052: Government denies UFOs exists; psychics; bigfoot; Mexico City UFOs; Highway 666 Tue, November 17 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #104: GHOST CONTACT (spirit photography) Tue, November 17 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #104: GHOST CONTACT (spirit photography) Wed, November 18 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #5053: strange disappearance; aliens in Brazil; moon colony; websites; voice phenomena Wed, November 18 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #105: PSYCHIC EXPERIENCE Wed, November 18 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #105: PSYCHIC EXPERIENCE Thu, November 19 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #5054: Haunted aircraft carrier; astronaut Edgar Mitchell; Roswell crash debris; primordial program; psychic research; past-life regression; crop circles. Thu, November 19 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #106: telepathy; mind over matter Thu, November 19 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #106: telepathy; mind over matter Fri, November 20 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #5055: UFO-related air crash; Holocaust sculptor; UFOs; haunted hacienda; Hawaiian prophecies; Martian life Sun, November 22 7:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4049: ghost of hanged man; UFO investigation Sun, November 22 11:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4049: ghost of hanged man; UFO investigation Tue, November 24 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4050: Zimbabwe sightings; psychic healing; exorcism; simulated out-of-body experience; "peeking Casper" Tue, November 24 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #107: life after death and near- death experiences Tue, November 24 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #107 life after death and near- death experiences Wed, November 25 9:00 AM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #5056 Nick Pope (British military UFO investigator); biofeedback; haunted hotel Wed, November 25 4:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #108: psychic healing Wed, November 25 8:00 PM SIGHTINGS EPISODE #108: psychic healing SYNDICATED THE MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW, Monday, November 16 ___________________________ This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t he week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 [canufo] BC Sightings From: David Pengilly <david_pengilly@dccnet.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:51:36 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:16:57 -0500 Subject: [canufo] BC Sightings Hello People, We are just updating our UFO*BC sightings page, so I thought I would send these along to the group. Nothing too exciting, mostly nocturnal lights. Dave Pengilly 3-Oct-98, Whistler: (6:27 pm) From the Whistler Resort, Paul and James watched a round disc travel from SE to NNE, for a period of five minutes. During this time the object changed directions. It appeared to be silver and metallic and was observed in a clear blue sky. 21-Oct-98, Abbotsford: (2:30 am) Witness saw a bright triangular object in the southern sky. It was flashing green, red, blue and yellow. She watched it for over an hour before it slowly moved eastward out of sight. 21-Oct-98, Burnaby: (7:30 am) BCTV received a call at 7:30 about a very bright object in the eastern sky. When BCTV staff checked it out they saw a thin bright light about 15 degrees above the horizon. The Vancouver Airport had nothing on radar. The object was in view for about 10 minutes. 21-Oct-98, Vancouver: (7:30 am) On his way to work, a witness saw a bright metallic object in the eastern sky. It appeared as an airplane fuselage, minus the wings. It was silver in colour at first, then turned bronze (reflecting sun?). The object was about 25 degrees above the horizon and was viewed for about 15 seconds. 22-Oct-98, Abbotsford: (6:45 pm) "Curious Jay" saw a glowing bright orange object in the eastern sky, about 10 to 20 degrees above the horizon. After a minute it seemed to turn into a saucer shape, then after a few seconds, take off due east. It was about ¼ the size of the full moon. 23-Oct-98, Vancouver: (7:30 am) Witness observed a big white light with a long tail travelling from the southwest to the northeast. The object was the size of a dime held at arm&rsquos length, with a 3 inch tail. The object disappeared over Grouse Mountain. Total viewing time of about 6 seconds. 23-Oct-98, Coquitlam: (10:15 pm) Witness was looking out of his window in a westerly direction and noticed a very bright, white light. He estimated it to be about 1 mile away and 2000 feet in altitude. He had his window open but could hear no accompanying sound. After about 20 seconds, the bright white light went out and then he could see 6 lights in a hexagon shape, one light being red. After a surge if brightness, four of the lights went out, leaving only the two front (?) lights. The lights (craft?) moved slowly southwest behind a tree and out of sight. The total viewing time was between 40 and 60 seconds. The sky was overcast. 7-Nov-98, Abbotsford: (1:00 am) A mother and daughter noticed a triangular shaped object with flashing red, blue and yellow lights. The pattern of flashing seemed similar to "Morse code". The object was seen in the southern sky for about 1 hour before it moved away. The object appeared to be below the cloud layer. 10-Nov-98, Vancouver: (10:00 pm) The witness saw an illuminated elliptical object for approximately 2 seconds before it shot upwards out of sight. The sky was clear.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Re: Project SIGN Research Release From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:51:54 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:36:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release Re: Project SIGN Research Release >From: Lynda Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:32:20 -0000 >Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:35:20 -0500 >Subject: Re: Project SIGN Research Release >>Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 22:05:35 -0800 >>From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Project SIGN Research Release >> >> >> >>In an earlier posting I mentioned the 1948 Project SIGN >>Top Secret Estimate of the Situation (EoTS). >> >>http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/nov/m03-004.shtml >> >>Since then, Wendy Connors, Project SIGN Research Center, has >>agreed to release summaries of her research. (See Below.) > >>Alfred C. Loedding was the author of the EToS. He was an expert >>in "low aspect ratio aircraft." In a 1947 document he is >>referred to as "the engineer in charge of investigation of >>unidentified flying objects." (Please note the term was used in >>both early US and Canadian documents.) In Loedding's own resume >>he refers to himself as the "Initiator of Project SIGN." He was >>of German descent, spoke German fluently, and regularly had >>German scientists at Wright Field to his home for dinner. > <snip> >This is a very interesting release but one at variance with the >facts that Jan has himself helped to uncover including AIR >100-203-79 stating that jet-powered discs may be responsible for >certain sightings and that the XF5U-1 had been 'operational in >recent years'. First of all, I did not uncover AIR 100-203-79 as I have pointed out in a number of posts. Second, AIR 203 is very careless about the word "operational" >Not to mention all the other evidence that we now have and which >has been ignored. (Well, we shall take care of that with this post!) see: http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/1948air.htm Among those which have been operational in recent years are the XF5U-1 ("Flying Flapjack") developed by Chance-Vaught, the Northrup B-35, and the turbo-jet powered Northrup YB-49. The present existence of any privately developed flying-wing type aircraft has not been determined but one such aircraft, the Arup tailless monoplane, was operational at South Bend, Indiana, prior to 1935. Actually, fleets of "operational" Arup planes erupted from South Bend in 1947 to points all over the world to cause the "Great UFO Hoax." As I have mentioned, AIR 203 confuses the V-173 with the XFU5-1. See: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/nov/m11-022.shtml The conditions under which AIR 203 was written are interesting, General Cabell tasked the Directorate of Intelligence to investigate "flying saucers" and their possible purposes and tactics in July 1948. He told them to assume that UFOs were real. Therefore, the conclusion were more or less forced. The personnel in Air Intelligence Division were as characterized by Michael Swords' as "anti-Saucer." If you read my article on the Top Secret USAF Director of Intelligence Briefing to the Joint Intelligence Committee JIC on Unidentified Aerial Objects you would see that the Directorate of Intelligence had abandoned the ideas in AIR 203 by the time it was printed and distributed. (BTW For the record, I did locate the JIC document, although quite by accident, which some researchers have been seeking for over 20 years. This shows the value of on site research at the various archives.) >Not to mention the vexed question of Soviet discs.......which >researchers appear to have washed their hands of entirely.... The Air Force considered the question of Soviet discs from the very beginning, and revisited this idea several times throughout the years, 1947-9, 1951-3, 1955. It is interesting to note that the air defense of the United States was named the Blue Book plan. (See: Schaffel's THE EMERGING SHIELD, page 113.) >The knowledge claim that Loedding, not the best or only expert >in LAR craft by any means, 'would not' have known about disc >planes is an interesting one and almost certainly unprovable but >again if there were, as Jan claims, people with ("Q") clearances >with information about which we are not yet aware, then it is >more than possible that something along the lines of a disc >project was in operation. Not at all an accurate version of my contention. Loedding was a recognized expert concerning Low Aspect Ratio (LAR) aircraft-- he was not *THE* expert, nor the only expert. However, he had done considerable research on the concept. He had flown all types of LAR models. He was also involved from the very first in the UFO investigation. Tim always convienently sidesteps bothersome items. Loedding was not the only LAR expert at Wright Field. T-2 had done several studies of the Horten and other aircraft. General Putt, Col. Harold Watson, Col. H. McCoy, and Col Deyarmond under the leadership on General McDonald sourced Europe looking for German planes, devices, and plans. Watson formed an ad hoc squadron of ME-262s, "Watson's Wizzers" or "Watson's Wizards." They flew just about any German aircraft they could find--except no one was foolhardy enough to fly the He-198 rocket plane. Watson gathered up the actual devices and shipped them to Cherbourgh where LTC Seashore was in charge of Project Seahorse and arranged for the shipment to the US and the UK of the German devices and pilots, engineers and technicians aboard the HSM Reaper. During and after the War, McCoy and his men located and secured huge caches of German documents of air technical interest. McCoy had microfilm facilities set up and Europe and moved the documents to Wright Field along with German experts to assist in the analyses and utilization of the captured documents. As pointed out previously, McCoy, Deyarmond, Goll, Seashore, after the war served at T-2 (later named The Intelligence Division and final named ATIC) at Wright Field during Project SIGN. Nearly all were involved in Project SIGN at one time or another. Their expertise and advice was available to Loedding, "the civilian project monitor" and Capt Snider, the head of Project SIGN. In addition Loedding was a German speaker and friendly with the Germans at Wright Field. The point was that these people would be very familiar with 1. Any German developments that could give raise to "flying discs" reports. 2. It is highly unlikely--although not completely impossible-- that an LAR project at Dayton that might explain "flying discs" would escape their attention. Now with all this knowledge and expertise to draw from Loedding still comes up with the ET idea as an explanation. The Top Secret Estimate of the Situation was sent forward, that is, it is approved by the Intelligence Division and AMC. Now Major Dewey Fournet claims he read the document and was not at all impressed with the analysis. However, that is not the point. The point is that the people who had the major air intelligence resources and knowledge at that time came up with this conclusion and not the conclusion that the USAF DI came up with in AIR 203. Did they know everything? Not by a long shot, and they recognized this. McCoy sent requests to the intelligence agencies in Europe to find the Horten Brothers and their associates and question them. McCoy originated requests to other agencies to see if any one had a flying disc device under development. He requested that RAND do a study of the problem. Now General Cabell makes much of two things when the: 1. The lack of intelligence personnel at the found of the USAF. A lack that was compounded by the slowness that Eisenhower implemented the transfer of intelligence assets from the War Department to the USAF. 2. The lack of personnel with "Q" clearances, i. e. access to nuclear information, in vital USAF agencies. Now there are at least two places that might be doing research in devices that might give rise to UFO reports which information might not be available to McCoy and the Intelligence Division of AMC, the nuclear propelled aircraft project which Dr. Maccabee posted on--although there was an AMC liaison officer present there--and the nuclear penetration aircraft and devices which might have been compartmentalized at the time. Now it should be easier to find out about such projects. These are areas for further investigation. (See: Project 1947: A Preliminary Report on the 1947 UFO Sighting Wave, page 40 for a possible sighting of "parasite planes" which might fit in this category.) >And then of course there is the curious business of the AS Weyl >article for Aeroplane magazine which stated (in 1948) that the >XF5U-1 had been fitted with jets......and could hover...and >ascend vertically much like those supposed 'UFOs'. Joel Carpenter interviewed Charles Zimmerman, the designer of the XF5U-1, and asked about the idea of fitting jets to the XF5U-1. Zimmerman said the idea was ridiculous and never happened. (Please note that if the XF5U-1 was the cause of UFO reports why didn't Zimmerman who worked at AMC and regularly conferred with Capt. Edward Ruppelt give such vital information to Ruppelt?) The XF5U-1 flying disc shibboleth has been around since 1947. I see nothing new that Winchell and Taylor haven't already claimed 48 years ago. The only new "proof" is a rather unfortunate choice of words in AIR 203. Time to put this one to bed. >The Twining memo (23rd September '47) states that sightings of >flying discs may be; >"the product of some high security project not known to this >command". I have covered that above. >I note also the total lack of mention of the 'Sign' document >stating that in relation to flying saucers the US Navy had an >X-plane built by Chance-Vought AND that research was being >undertaken within the US Navy Engineering Division at that time >into boundary layer control and low aspect ratio aircraft. Of course, all SIGN documents were available to Loedding, Snider, McCoy, et al. What is this suppose to indicate? They obviously knew about the research. >Did the marvellous Loedding know about this I wonder? Since he was in SIGN from the beginning to the end, no doubt he did. Now did he consider it significant? >I note also his design for a flying disc, patented in 1952 (I >think off hand), was perhaps the most clumsy of all of the >postwar designs and hardly evidence of expertise. Compared with >the later Frost designs this was very poor indeed..... Unfortunately you make broad judgments on the basis of limited evidence. Again, I did not contend that Loedding was the best or only expert on LARs. LARs were a hot item of interest to US Strategic Air Forces in Europe during the War. German LARs came in for a lot of US intelligence interest. Loedding's 1952 patent was for a relatively inexpensive LAR for limited private use. He had been experimenting with LARs and flying wings for almost two decades at that time (1952). >There is the evidence from Jack Pickett that discs were built by >the US military and had been since then end of World War Two. He >was told this by a USAF Intelligence Officer in 1967 and shown >photographs too! Yes, let's talk about Pickett. Essentially, what we have with his testimony is a UFO report or rather an unidentified junked object report. It is impossible say what he saw at the PDO yard. He has no hard evidence to offer. What we have is more unsubstantiated testimony hardly more evidential than a UFO sighting. However, what we are to believe from this is that a device so secret that almost no information is available on it is left in a PDO yard in plain sight. Hmm....you will have to do better than that. Dozens of such claims litter the literature of ufology. George Filer told me that an article on Pickett's unidentified junk may have appeared in a south Florida Sunday newspaper supplement. Well, I have spent a lot of time looking with no success when I was down there, it obviously was not, however, the main goal of my trips. I also contacted Walt Andrus concerning this article. He vaguely recalled something like it, but did not feel it was earthshaking in content. Barry Greenwood has one of the biggest collections of UFO material in the world, he could not find such an article, requests for help to Florida MUFON members to look for this item have come up empty. I also have searched CUFOS' files for this article. So far nothing. What we have is only a lead; not evidence. Now Pickett also has testimony about a conversation and a picture. Again, little substantiation. Interesting, but not conclusive proof by any means. >Although both Jan and Wendy Connors are to be congratulated for >their excellent work they appear to have fallen into the trap of >believing that everything they get from these archives is the >whole truth and nothing but the truth. Thanks for the congratulations, Tim, I know it probably hurt your teeth to say that. However, you couple that with the rather silly assertion that we believe everything we read or come out of the archives. I suggest you substantiate this contention. Rather, I recommend you look to your own writings and your interpretation of AIR 203 for someone who is caught in this trap. >Forward sanitation of documents might be a problem..... Nah....you don't really think that, do ya? You may think that Wendy and I just fell off the turnip truck. Let me assure you that is not the case. We are both veterans, she served in the Air Force, and I in the Army for over 25 year. I have been a Top Secret Control Officer,a Security Manager, Communications Security (COMSEC) Custodian, held a critical nuclear weapons position and worked on new systems development among others. I did not just come to UFO research a week from last Wednesday either. So save your condescension for someone else. Neither do Wendy, Michael Hall or myself take any position on the origin of UFOs. We are interested in research in this area only. Since you earlier claimed I ignored all your evidence, I will take on another favorite of yours from the archives, Project Silver Bug. First off this is nothing new. In the 1955 USAF press release concerning Project Blue Book Special Report #14, it is mentioned that supersonic disc-shaped aircraft will soon fly around the country. An artist's conception (also used in the Silver Bug documents) was handed out to the press. Big claims! In WAR IN 1974 written about the same time by a LTC Riggs. It concerned a future conflict is which ground effect vehicles would battle Soviet tanks. The battle in Europe was lost because the Allies could not see the advantage of upgrading their force to the ground-effect and flying armor vehicle genre. Ah, Riggs great propaganda! In the Marine Corps Gazette was an article showing Marines riding into battle in Avro Car-like vehicles. The only thing to come out of this was a ground effects lighter which is in limited use today. In the Project Silver Bug document http://www.cufon.org/cufon/silverbg.htm please note how many time the words proposed and proposal are used! Project Silver Bug SUMMARY Purpose This report presents factual technical data on A. V. Roe, Canada, Limited, proposed development, Project Y2 (Secret). This proposal is the second of two designs which can be classified as radical aircraft designs. The ultimate purpose of presenting this is two-fold; to correct the distorted picture presented in previous releases, both classified and unclassified, and to acquaint the intelligence community with the current state-of-the-art facts thereby alerting them to any air intelligence information which may become available indicating Soviet interest in this specialized field. Factual Data Several news mediums have published articles concerning A. V. Roe, Canada, Limited, Project Y2 (Secret) which, when supplemented by the December Air Intelligence Digest article, "The Flying Disk", present an inaccurate picture of the proposed project. It was decided that a factual account of this project would be presented, in the form of a Joint Wright Air Development Center - Air Technical Intelligence Center, to the intelligence agencies to correct any misgivings brought about by the above mentioned articles. Discussion The subject of this report deals with a proposal for a new type of aircraft by one of Canada's most progressive members of the aircraft industry, AVRO Aircraft, limited, a member of the Hawker-Siddley group. this project should in no way be associated with any science fiction for "Flying Saucer" stories because of its external appearance. the configuration was a result of an engineering investigation into the solution of a particular problem. An examination of the AVRO proposal shows that the potential for a very high performance weapon system exists in the not-to- distant future. Although this proposal offers the USAF a potentially advanced weapon system having both vertical take-off and military performance capabilities, there are numerous technical problems which must be solved before a successful development can be realized. The proposal is for the design of a supersonic research aircraft having a circular planform and VTO characteristics. One version provides for the use of several conventional radial-flow type engines. Another unusual feature of this proposal is that the control of the aircraft is accomplished by selective direction of the exhaust gases which eliminates the necessity of conventional aerodynamic control surfaces. Conclusions This proposal offers a possible solution to the USAF requirement for achieving dispersed base operations. There appears to be no fundamental reason why this proposal should not be ultimately result in a weapon system, however there are several technical areas which must be investigated before a full-scale development program is initiated. Sound all too familiar, like the Dynasoar, the Sgt. York, and about a dozen other systems that ate up billions of dollars but did not make it into the Force. Working in the Directorate of Training Devlopments at Fort Sill, I got to see plenty of these big claims from new weapons system advocates. During my tour the Pershing II Missile and the Multiply Launch Rocket System (MLRS) came into the system, but there were others that fell by the wayside. The claims for the failed system were just as extravagant as those for the *proposed* Silverbug. Please look at another Silver Bug document http://www.cufon.org/cufon/flydisc.htm in Air Intelligence Digest, December 1954. Please note the picture of Silver Bug leaving a submarine. Among the retired submariners around the New London area is an informal group who call themselves "The Old Sea Crows." They got the biggest laugh out of Silver Bug being launched from a submarine. No one had seen even plans for such a thing. The popular origin of the submarine/UFO connection was in 1950 when mystery submarines and a UFO flap seemed to appear at the same time. Kenneth Arnold in several newspaper interviews made much of this idea. Later, Capt Ruppelt would investigate this possible link by trying to coordinate UFO sightings with sightings of unknown submarines. The results were inconclusive. During a Senate Arm Services Committee hearing Senator Albert Gore, Sr. would accuse General of the Army Omar Bradley, Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff of military scare tactics with reports of flying saucers and mystery submarines in the press being used to get Congress to increase military budgets. >So we are not especially interested in theorizing and we are in >the process of making further FOIA requests based upon the >numerous technical documents now in our possession. I made a number of documents available for the FOCUS article. Also, I made it clear that I did not agree that most of this material did not make a clear case for secret weapons as the explanation of the residuum of UFO report that are unexplained. I agree that experimental aircraft and devices have been reported for UFOs. However, the evidence for a broad solution is lacking. Most material consists of not of evidence but rather of leads which still need confirmation. Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:21:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:21:45 -0500 Subject: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' [This is a repost originally dated: Tue Sep 03 14:16:21 1996 from the days before The UpDates Archive at Ufomind.com --ebk] _________________________________________________________________ 'Branton' has been the subject of some speculation in the past. 'His' sizeable posts to The Net and various UFO Conferences have contained both verifiable and, what many consider to be, 'high-fantasy'. Those of you who read 'his' stuff will know exactly what I mean. Below is what appears to be a bio from 'Branton'. Rumours are that 'he' is probably a collective-name for a group of individuals. ebk ________________________________________ From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Organization: SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL To: "Mailing list " Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:28:17 -0700 Subject: (Fwd) Branton Speaks out............. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Branton Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 20:17:57 -600 To: skywatch@wic.net Dear Colonel; I just recently signed up on your E-Mailing list and I want to thank you for the effort that you are making. I am an abductee who has experienced suppressed encounters with grays and humans throughout an underground system that spans the western base of the Wasatch-Rocky mountains in Utah. I've had "altered state" contacts with the humans who live within the underground system, those who I refer to as the "Melchizedeks". These are members of a metaphysical lodge with connections to the deep initiatory levels of Mormonism, Masonry, the Mt. Shasta/Agharti network, Mayans, Sirius, Arcturus, Saturn, etc. They had formerly maintained cautious territorial treaties with the branch of grays/reptiloids that are native to the underground levels, and the reptiloids took advantage of this agreement in order to infiltrate their society. Between 1979 when the Dulce and Groom wars broke out leading to the take-over of "our" joint operational bases and 1989 when the reptiloids/ grays took control of the Alternative-3 bases on Luna and Mars, several of the Melchizedek bases were also attacked as the reptiloids/grays turned on these native subterran residents. During the two-year period when the executive branch of our government broke relations with the Grays following the Dulce-Groom wars, the intelligence community split into two factions: the American-Navy backed COM-12 agency which no longer desires interaction with the Grays, but seeks to maintain contact with the Pleiadeans instead and is fighting to preserve Constitutional government; and the Bavarian-CIA backed AQUARIUS agency which seeks to maintain contact with the Grays, etc. in that they are depending on their mind control technology, abductions and implants to impose a joint human- alien fascist "New World Order" dictatorship. Between the Archuleta Mesa of New Mexico (the main headquarters of the malevolent reptiloid forces) and Death Valley in California (below which lies the main headquarters for the benevolent humanoid forces) there are several bases where things are "out of control". These consist of huge cavern systems linked together via artificial tunnels... with main "bases" below Deep Springs, CA; Mercury, NV; Dougway SW of and Granite Mt. SE of Salt Lake City; Page, AZ; Creede and also the Denver International Airport in Colorado, etc. The benevolent humanoid Federation forces involved are from the Andromeda and Pleiades constellations, and also Tau Ceti, Vega Lyra, Procyon, Wolf 424, Alpha Centauri, etc. The malevolent reptiloid Empire forces are from Draconis and Orion, and also Epsilon Bootes, Zeta Reticuli II, Capella, Polaris, etc. Both sides have more or less been at a state of war or truce for centuries however in recent years the "war" has been escalating, and has raged more or less through Arcturus, Bernards Star, Altair Aquilla, Aldebaran, and especially Sirius-B where Pleiadean humanoids, Draconian reptiloids and joint "collaboration" forces are currently at war. The epicenter of this war is now gravitating to the Sol system where the Draco-Orion forces are using Nemesis (a "Dark Star" beyond our system in the direction of Orion yet closer than Alpha Centauri, a protostar which was not quite large enough to ignite into a star and instead became a nearly invisible frozen planet about the size of Jupiter). Nemesis has been sending planetoids to earths vicinity which are actually hollowed carriers which have served as staging bases for the Grays' abduction, implantation, mind control programming, mutilation, and infiltration agendas in collaboration with a network of secret Bavarian-based societies. These planetoids have been here since at least 1953 when two of them took up geosynchronous orbits around earth simultaneously, which led to the CIA's contacts with the Grays and the subsequent landing at Muroc-Edwards AFB in 1954 and the resulting GREADA54 treaty. It is interesting that an anonymous source in the Ames Research Center confirmed that the asteroid Geographos (the one the Clementine probe was going to intercept and on which it was going to "test" an SDI particle beam disintegrator) had made at least 12 course alterations in the period of 6 months. You should also keep an eye on Hale-Bopp comet, whith is ejecting spiral jets of dust from its interior at 17 day intervals, when in reality normal "coment" halos are produced by solar winds blowing gas and ice off the SURFACE. In addition to this I have heard that Hale-Bopp has made at least 4 course-alterations, one of them being a 70 degree turn. This is interesting when you consider that at least one photo nicknamed the "eyes of Hale-bopp" clearly shows TWO cometary cores. You are correct in that there is a "war" of sorts taking place in this part of the galaxy, however I thought you might be interested in knowing some of the details of the conflict based on the information that my "sources" have led me to. Sincerely; Branton ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Re: 'Abduction' On Video From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:04:33 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:39:26 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Abduction' On Video [Posted for personal, direct E-mail discussion _only_ - please. Past discussions are available at the Archive on Ufomind --ebk] Hello list, I was recently perusing my video collection when I came across a segment of Paranormal Borderline that was always particularly intruiging to me. It involved a piece of video that seemed to show the abduction of a worker from a factory in Florida. That show was the only one I ever saw dealing with that tape. Does anyone know if follow up work was done on this case? Assuming that someone has not disovered glaring evidence of a hoax, I have noted several details that I would like to discuss with anyone interested. If anyone has new information, please contact me. Muchos glocose.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 William Steinman Contact From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:23:29 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:26:57 -0500 Subject: William Steinman Contact Lore[n?] Gross has told me that he wants to get in touch with William Steinman, the author of "UFO Crash at Aztec." Does anyone one have a recent contact address? -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:54:52 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:46:42 -0500 Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In >Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 06:45:36 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Steven W. Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? >Since the issue seems to revolve around the >passenger/photographer it would seem that the solution would be >to automate the photographic process somehow. My guess is that >this strict enforcement of the law (or at least this >interpretation of it) won'tstop the determined crop circle >photograph entrepenuers. >This may be a rather large question to ask, but I'm curious as >to the legal status of 'UltraLight' aircraft in Great Britian. >Steve Actually, the problem is just that private pilots are not allowed to receive compensation for flying activities. A pilot needs a commercial license to do that. It sounds like the UK equivalent of the FAA is looking into the possibility that "commercial" activity is occurring from aircraft piloted by private pilots. It is exactly the same situation here in the U.S. The solution to this is easy, just use a pilot with a commercial license.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed... From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:11:09 PST Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:51:54 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed... >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:23:16 -0500 >From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed ... >>From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:01:01 EST >>To: Updates@globalserve.net, >>Subject: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body Snatchers >>This has all the earmarks of a contrived story with too many >>inconsistencies. The Aliens are here, but they didn't show up >>for this photo session. >>The whole thing looks suspicious and contrived and appears to be >>nothing more than a custom tailored hoax. The presentation on >>the Art Bell show by Dr. Reed's agent Robert Raith, seemed >>contrived. Even Art Bell had a tone in his voice that hinted at >>disbelief of the story. Dr. Reed is making an appearance on the >>Art Bell show tonight. Watch for announcements of Dr. Jonathan >>Reed on the radio talk show circuit. He'll soon be raking it in, >>hawking his book and videotape. Caveat Lector! But I guess some >>people just enjoy being taken in and clubbed to death with >>obvious hoaxes! >>Ignatius Graffeo >From your post, you indicated that you had not heard Dr. Reed on >the Bell show with Robert Raith, and Whitley Strieber, so >apparently you are able to look at this photo and make your >determinations as to the whole thing being a hoax. >This is one thing that concerns me a lot, there seems to be a >lot of people that are able to determine that these things are >hoaxes without seeing all the facts or bothering to find the >facts first, which leads to a lot of confusion for a lot of >people. >I did listen to the show and at this point am not going to make >any decisions until I know more about it. Dr. Reed did say that >he had the negatives to the film and would submit them for >analysis. He also stated that the video had been examined and >was found to be authentic and not tampered with. Apparently >there was not enough time on the show so they plan another >session next week. Michael Hodges G'day Michael, Ignatius & List, What really puzzles me about this is the supposed behaviour -outright aggression - of a psychologist against a higher being (by higher I mean 'not an animal' in our normal context). This being may have been acting out of genuine self protection and, as the 'DR.' did not see the total interaction between the dog and the alien, he may have done the equivalent of murder. It somehow strikes me as being too irrational unless he was aggressively approached by the alien - was this ever stated?. Was he an anger therapist who 'lost it' ;-) ? Regards,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:57:18 PST Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:01:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >Date: Fri, 13 Nov 98 17:57:40 PST >>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:57:19 PST >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >>>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 12:36:57 PST >>>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> >>>>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>Subject: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.' >>>>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:19:05 -0800 >>>>Willy Ley astonomer, rocketeer, Jew. Willy is one of the great >><snip> >>>I had not heard before that Ley was Jewish, which would not >>>matter at all if, of course, such things had not mattered >>>profoundly to Nazi murderers. Are you sure of this? From what I >>>understand, Ley fled Germany not because he feared Hitler's >>>ethnic cleansing but because he thought the Nazis might come >>>down on him for publishing rocketry articles outside Germany. If >>>you know better, I'd be happy to be corrected. >>>Jerry Clark >>Jerry (& List), >>Could we please agree to not (as in _never_ again) use that >>Orwellian phrase of 'ethnic cleansing' in place of of the truely >>_dirty_ and barbaric behaviour that it was then in Europe and, >>continues to be today in other countries - genocide. >>Is that too much to ask for, in this List at least, when we are >>trying to find truths in the Orwellian speak of and behaviour of >>so many governments and agencies around the world - also out of >>respect for those who been on the receiving end of such >>treatment? >Leanne, >I happen to be a major admirer of Orwell. In fact, a few weeks >ago I read Michael Shelten's biography of him (better than >Bernard Crick's, by the way, if anybody's interested). I am >keenly attuned to Orwellian language. Everybody on this list, >incidentally, ought to read Orwell's famous essay "Politics and >the English Language" on this very subject. >"Ethnic cleansing" is indeed an Orwellian term, and I was using >it exactly in that bitterly ironic sense, to denote the >continuity between barbarism in Germany in the early 1940s and >barbarism in the former Yugoslavia (and elsewhere, such as >Rwanda) in the 1990s. The only reason Hitler and his henchmen >didn't use the term "ethnic cleansing" to denote genocide was >that they didn't think of it. Mass murder, alas, is not a >phenomenon consigned to distant history. >Jerry Clark Jerry, I appreciate that you may have had a particular intent in its (the term "ethnic cleansing") use _however_ its ongoing use, for whatever reason, helps to establish its acceptance in the long run as a valid expression _no_matter_how_repugnant_or_misguided_.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Re: Camp Borden and UFOs From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 05:26:04 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:06:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Camp Borden and UFOs >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Camp Borden and UFOs >Date: 14 November 1998 23:27 >Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 02:08:16 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Camp Borden and UFOs >Dear Jim, Nick and Errol: Please see below: >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:57:23 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Re: Camp Borden and UFOs >>>Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:56:00 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Camp Borden and UFOs >>>Hi Errol, >>>Maybe there is a now forgotten reason why UFO books >>>at one time in the past could only be found in the >>>Occult Section of bookstores... >><snip> >>Stateside, any large booksellers have the UFO section mixed in >>with New Age..... UFO related material, in fact, can only be >>found under the New Age banner.... >>This is interesting in that it reflects the manner in which this >>subject is perceived by the ROW (Rest Of the World)..... the ROW >>being anyone not interested in the subject sufficiently to >>actually look for books on the subject ... therefore those who >>are (interested in the subject) immediately flock to the New Age >>section in order to find UFO material and we wonder why the hell >>it's there! At least I do. >>And as long as I am opining once again, there is little which is >>shared between New Age and UFOs except that each may be >>perceived as strange enough to lump them together along with >>witches, channeling, ghosts. Poltergeists and etc. >>Hmmm.... on the other hand.....?!? Nah. >>Jim Mortellaro >Many years ago I naively asked where the UFO books were in a >large local non-chain bookstore. This particular store was a >sort of haunt for left-of-center self-styled intellectuals, >among other things. >(One time some neo-nazi type fired a bullet through the plate >glass window! Fortunately he was caught.) >The fellow behind the counter, who appeared to write me off as a >dolt, directed me to the Occult section. I believe I detected a >note of self righteousness. (Is self-leftousness a word? ) >I found a rather poor selection of UFO books, but there were >tons of stuff on astrology, Edgar Cayce .. you name it .. even >different versions of the Tarot deck, all artful and pricey. >Now, at least at Barnes and Noble, I find them in the >"Alternative Reality" section, ( my term, I forget how they >labeled those shelves ) which is basically new age, new >religion, with a lot of occult sprinkled in. >I do not expect to find UFO books sandwiched in between >the classics of physics and chemistry. >What they could do, space permitting, would be to set aside a >shelf or two for fringe sciences; subjects like exobiology, >xenobiology (bigfoot/loch-ness monster etc.), ESP and a host of >other topics that are interesting but unproven. >But, aha! Therein lies the rub! >All the stuff I frown on would try to jump onto the same shelf! >Astrologers would point to what they consider good evidence. >Remote viewing, near-death experience, every guest Art Bell ever >had .. they would all demand space on this same shelf! Personally, I hope that when my first book comes out in the USA next January it will be placed with aviation and popular science books. This is certainly what I requested from the publishers! UFO books in the UK are housed either in popular science or 'Mind, Body and Spirit' - Waterstones and Dillons in any case.. This is not a good thing - especially for those of use who remain entirely unconvinced by the UFO-ET 'link'. I haven't had any bullets yet - although my P.O.Box in Southport did receive some razor blades. How kind..... Tim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 ECHELON: America's Secret Global Surveillance From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:44:12 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:10:03 -0500 Subject: ECHELON: America's Secret Global Surveillance Dear Errol, Having seen recent references to Echelon I thought some List members might be interested in the following article and link from NETSURFER DIGEST Volume 04, Issue 33: ECHELON: America's Secret Global Surveillance Network That's the title of a new report about the extensive electronic surveillance network run by the National Security Agency. The system can reportedly intercept, record, and translate any electronic communication anywhere. It's not hard. The network consists of intercept stations all over the world which capture all satellite, microwave, cellular, and fiber-optic communications traffic, then process this information with huge computer facilities. The computers employ pattern matching, voice recognition, and optical character recognition to look for specific phrases and flag interesting messages for further analysis. The network remains pretty secret, but over the years journalists and researchers have pieced together details. This work clearly supports the privacy/liberty perspective as it spotlights the scary spook stuff. http://www.freecongress.org/ctp/echelon.html Netsurfer Digest - http://www.netsurf.com/ Regards, John Hayes jhayes@cableinet.co.uk webmaster@ufoinfo.com UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/ UFOICQ Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:- http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 'Beyond The Unexplained' - Santa Fe, New Mexico From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:08:57 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:37:13 -0500 Subject: 'Beyond The Unexplained' - Santa Fe, New Mexico ------------ From: Rosebuds6@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:01:33 EST To: Rosebuds6@aol.com Subject: Beyond The Unexplained - Santa Fe, New Mexico I, am, to say that 'Beyond The Unexplained' debuts on Ch.6, Santa Fe, New Mexico, Tuesdays, beginning on 11/24/98 at 8:30pm MST Janet Russell To be a guest on Beyond The Unexplained, contact: Janet Russell POB 311 Medford NY 11763 or E-Mail Rosebuds6@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Tempel-Tuttle Comet: 'Armageddon' Seen In 2097? From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:14:47 GMT Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:12:56 -0500 Subject: Tempel-Tuttle Comet: 'Armageddon' Seen In 2097? Source, The Nation (Thailand), http://203.146.51.4/nationnews/1998/199811/19981113/34727.html Stig ******* Date: 11/13/98 Publication: The Nation Section: Headlines Armageddon seen in 2097 ******* 2000 will not be the year in which the world will end as a Thai astronomer points out that the periodic comet Tempel-Tuttle that causes Leonid shower from tomorrow until Wednesday may hit the Earth in 2097. Khao Muanwong, with a PhD in astronomy and the former dean of Khon Kaen University's Faculty of Science, said that the comet would be at the same position as Earth on Nov 15, 2097. "The comet and meteors travel in a direction opposite to Earth's. But the orbits of some comets cross the Earth's orbit. Tempel-Tuttle is one of these. Every 32.9 years, Tempel-Tuttle's orbit brings it close to Earth's orbit. Nonetheless, according to my calculation, based on an astronomical database researched by DK Yeomans of Nasa [National Aeronautical and Space Agency], when the comet returns in 2097, it will hit the Earth," Khao said. "The chances are very slim, though. Indeed, I feel that Nasa has already tried to do something to stop the comet but have not publicised it yet. The only way to avoid the damage is to destroy the comet," he added. To date, no one knows how big Tempel-Tuttle is. "But whether it is big or small, since it will hit the Earth, damage is inevitable. What Nostradamus said about Doomsday could well be true, including big floods and earthquakes," Khao said. The Tempel-Tuttle comet, discovered by Wilhelm Tempel and Horas Tuttle in 1865, orbits the sun every 32.9 years, and intersects the earth's orbital path at its closest position to the sun. The comet is about 1.9 kilometres in diameter, too small to be seen with the naked eye. The veteran astronomer added that in the year 2000, instead of worrying about Doomsday, we should worry about the economic and social crisis that is causing suffering in society and help to solve the problems together. "If you want to preach holy words to protect the world, do it but do not believe that the Earth will be destroyed in 2000. It will not happen, I assure you. Nonetheless, I cannot assure on what will really happen in 2097." The comet Tempel-Tuttle and the Leonid shower were first identified in 1866 by Italian astronomer Giovanni Schiaparelli and experts in celestial mechanics Urbain Le Verrier and Theodor von Oppolzer. Schiaparelli published his calculation for the orbit of the Leonid stream while Le Verrier and Oppolzer spotted a striking resemblance of the Leonid orbit to that of the newly-discovered comet Tempel-Tuttle. When the comet comes close to the sun, it leaves particles in its orbit which fall to Earth when its orbit crosses the Earth's orbit. In astronomy, if there are more than 10,000 shooting stars per hour, the phenomenon is called meteor showers. The famous meteor showers are Perseid shower which happens every August, Draconid shower which occurs in September, Orionid shower every October and Leonid shower which occurs every November. Scientists believe that this year is a great year for the Leonid shower because Tempel-Tuttle travelled near the sun on Feb 28 and passed the spot in the orbits where the Earth will arrive on Nov 18 about 257 days ago. The particles the comet left behind, thus, are still thick and will become a storm of meteor shower similar to the ones in 1833, 1866 and 1966. According to Khao, the Leonid shower is named Leonids because it seems to radiate from a spot in the constellation of Leo. Nonetheless, it will not be possible to see the centre of the constellation. "You can see the Leonid shower everywhere in Thailand, including Bangkok, around 2 am. You need only blankets and a folding floor mattress. I don't suggest you drive upcountry in the night and hurry back to work in the morning. If you really want to go out of the city, Bangpoo or Lad Krabang would be far enough. See the shower and realise that it is caused by the comet Tempel-Tuttle that may hit the world in 2097. Nonetheless, do not be afraid of it. It will not hit the earth now or in the future. We're still alive," Khao concluded. The Nation
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Jeff Rense <eotl@west.net> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:25:52 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:27:38 -0500 Subject: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Surprising Call To Jeff Rense 11-16-98 Note - During my three hour interview with controversial British UFO researcher Tim Matthews last night, 11-15-98 a caller, "Mike", phoned in to relate what may be important new information regarding the now legendary Phoenix Lights event(s) of March 13, 1996. Most researchers agree on one key issue: the Phoenix Lights sighting was probably composed of two or more separate events which occurred over a period of a several hours. The National Guard flare drop near the Estrella Mountains is espoused by many as being the entire answer to the riddle. Others, however, point to numerous eyewitnesses who reported definite hardware in the skies over Phoenix that night. We also have Peter Davenport's (Director, National UFO Reporting Center) statement that an on-duty Air Force source stated to him that the F-16 pilots sent aloft to identify the unknown craft returned to base and were so shook up over what they had seen they had to be helped out of their cockpits. "Mike" explained that a Marine friend of his was called out as part of a Marine helicopter response out of Yuma, AZ to investigate an unkown object in the Phoenix area that night. His Marine friend explained how his crew, with state of the art night vision devices, had clearly seen and identified a highly exotic craft, "about the size of a C-130", marked with identifiable "US Air Force" insignia. The marine and his helicopter crewmates were then ordered back to base where he, and presumably his crew, were debriefed and told the craft was one of ours and not to discuss it. I am in contact with "Mike". Although we cannot conclusively authenticate his report at this time, it is certainly worth further investigation. Last night's program can be heard in the RealAudio Archives available through www.sightings.com. Below is a message from Tim Matthews sent out to his large UFO research mailing list this morning, Monday, 11-16-98. ----- From Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: Phoenix Lights Solved? BUFOSC 98 Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:32:56 -0000 Hi there! Last night I appeared for three hours on the ever-excellent "Sightings" radio show with host Jeff Rense. The show dealt with 'human UFO technology' and we covered all kinds of areas of the flying triangle and flying disc 'problem'. I was able to disabuse several people of their misconceptions about the 'radar evidence' relating to the Belgian flap of 1989/990 where in fact the pilots sent to intercept the 'UFO' did NOT actually see anything triangular. Their radar systems were faulty and ground observers who were told that the 'UFO' was at around 10,000ft could not see a damn thing! We heard from a number of fascinated and fascinating callers including a man who saw a very large triangle in the Caribbean in 1989 and who said, true to form, that this craft operated silently and moved away at speed. More support for Michael Walden's "Ionic Airflow Engine" propulsion theory whereby dual propulsion allows for hover, in silence, as well as for high speed flight. A PHOENIX RISING.......? Then 'Mike', a previous caller to the show and an ex-Marine, got in touch and blew the lid off the Phoenix UFO flap of 1997. As host Jeff Rense pointed out live on air, if what Mike was telling us were true then again we have evidence for a military cover-up of immense proportions. In a nutshell, Mike's friend, a Marine, had been scrambled, on board military helicopters, to investigate reports of UFOs over Phoenix at the time of the '96 flap. On this occasion he was able to clearly see the letters "US" (or perhaps even "USAF"??) on the upper side of the craft where he also saw a cockpit as well as other 'humps' on the body! On returning to base, and having seen this most remarkable sight through high-powered night vision equipment (which is now very advanced by the way), Mike's colleague was debriefed and was told that his team had seen a classified military aircraft of delta planform and that they were to KEEP QUIET about it. Well, there you go. This account ties in with several UK events that are featured in my forthcoming book including the story of the party of UK Marines who were visited by a triangle whilst on exercise and who were told a very similar story upon returning to their base in the South West........ Bottom line - the military knows exactly what these triangles are. They are able to hover and the large ones are lighter-than-air hybrid airships with inherent stealth abilities due to their construction from lightweight composites including carbon fibre/Kevlar. They are often accompanied by military jets or helicopters. Some could be up to 600ft in length according to information to be found on the Federation of American Scientists website; www.fas.org (See 'Mystery Aircraft' for more on the Black Manta/Tactical Reconnaissance 3.) Their use; reconnaissance, sensor platforms, covert insertion of troops, special operations. So, maybe a triangle WAS responsible for the Phoenix lights. More realistically there appear to have been several different events that were lumped together as one in this case. But again, military hardware was at the root of this sighting. What became apparent during the show was how witnesses seeing these aircraft are shocked not only by the near-silent operation but by the feint blue glow from the edges of the craft and their size. The effect is largely psychological. We all know about the CIA and documentation about its' interest in UFOs for psychological warfare........Every time a triangle is seen the UFO community does the job of the intelligence agencies by pushing the lie that these are ET craft. People have been hanged for lesser offenses against the truth........ LAPIS CONFERENCE We can just imagine the back-slapping BS fest that was the LAPIS conference. Another year, a couple more thousands in the bank/beer fund, and UFO research advanced no further than when the 200 or so spectators took their seats in the vein hope of enlightenment on Saturday morning. What is more, for their =A324 over two days neither Al Bielek nor Tim Rifat appeared. Much to the chagrin of the nutcases who turn up for the Conference year on year, Mr. IUN (Andy Roberts) and Gloria Dixon stole the show with their examples of objective research. Andy did a good job with the hecklers during his talk. These were probably the same sadsacks who always try, and always fail, to heckle my lectures at the few Conferences I am invited to. Bring 'em on - bring 'em all on............ They are losing badly - especially where the Berwyn Mountains case is concerned. The only thing that appears to have 'crashed' here is the sanity of certain investigators associated with the promulgation of this old UFO lie. They so desperately need a 'British Roswell'. Back in the real world I was talking to rather more than 200 believers - 2 million intelligent and thinking Americans more like - this weekend. This is where we are at; spreading the truth to thousands on the Internet and several millions on the radio and making a REAL impact!! And that's despite the hate campaign, the smears, the lies and the threats. Nothing can keep us down! NEWSLASH! XTRA XTRA!! News is just coming in from a credible US source that a pilot has spoken out about his 1950 'UFO' experience. In 1950s he was flying into Wright-Patterson when he saw a metallic discplane parked outside a hangar. He noted the use of control vents around the cupola cockpit. This is just another nail in the ETH/PSH camps failing theory that nobody at nearby Air Technical Intelligence Centre (HQ'd at the very same Wright-Patterson AFB!!) or within the 'Sign', 'Grudge', 'Blue Book' fiction factory 'knew anything' about flying discs! Asking relatives of long dead intelligence officers is hardly the way to make progress. As these researchers get more desperate to bury our research we are getting more information day by day. Not to mention further technical documentation about the many AVRO disc projects in the 1950s.... Highlights of the AVRO secret projects; 1 - Development of German radial flow engines. 2 - Use of a spinning rotor within the body of a disc at high speed to create gyroscopic stability - not unlike prewar Focke-Wulf designs. 3 - A separate project to develop a Mach 3 interceptor-type disc along the lines of Weapons System 606A/B using a ramjet for propulsion at higher speeds. The cockpit used was standard to AVRO and was used in the 'Arrow' - AVROs most advanced aircraft and worldbeater in the 1950s and early 1960s. This may be related to the 'D' series of disc housed at Papoose Lake and which resulted in the YF-12 prototypes later in the 1960s..... 4 - Several different 'Silver Bug' designs; 30, 60, 100ft craft. 5 - Use of axial flow engines to develop an effective STOL disc. 6 - Use of several test bed prototype discs which actually flew; technical data relating to problems discovered DURING flight are included. All this tends to point towards the Debra Carlson scenario where various discplanes were indeed tested at Papoose Lake, Nevada, as the infamous 23rd November 1957 'Blue Book' unknown, reported by a serving USAF officer, indicates. On a more general note the existence of an X-plane responsible for disc sightings HAS BEEN ADMITTED; The 23rd June 1948 document signed by Colonel RD Wentworth makes this clear. This data was KNOWN to Project Sign officers clearly concerned with possible Soviet penetrations of US airspace. The AVRO team were also of the mind that some disc sightings were evidence of Soviet advances.... We are winning the battle, people are starting to realise the need to re-evaluate the post-war UFO evidence. There will be hecklers, but like a bad case of the flu, they will soon go away.... Bye for now, your sensible feedback is encouraged...... Tim X
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update 11-15-98 From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:42:40 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:16:55 -0500 Subject: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update 11-15-98 Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update November 15, 1998 Main web Site: www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 1998 Updates: www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1998 _____________________________ CANDO, MIDALE#2, LOWVILLE REPORTS UPDATED Diagrams have now been added on the web site for these reports. Report listings are on the 1998 page (URL above). ____________________________ STATEMENT ON FUTURE OF CPRI AND CPR-CANADA A joint statement from Colin Andrews (founder, Circles Phenomenon Research International) and Paul Anderson (Director, CPR-Canada) has been added to the News and Reports 1998 page on the web site. CPR-Canada, an affiliate of CPRI, will continue as it has for the forseeable future, and is not directly affected by changes with the main CPRI offices. ____________________________ Web site updated November 15. ____________________________ For further information or correspondence, contact: Paul Anderson Director CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Web Site: www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 1998 Updates: www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1998 Director MILLENNIUM RESEARCH INSTITUTE Web: mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/ (under revision) Representative BLT RESEARCH, INC. Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Re: Info? On 'Branton' From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:09:29 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:20:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Info? On 'Branton' >From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:21:45 -0500 >To: "UFO UpDates Subscribers":; >Subject: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' Regarding the post to skywatch from 'Branton' ... >Both sides have more or less been at a state of war or truce for >centuries however in recent years the "war" has been escalating, >and has raged more or less through Arcturus, Bernards Star, >Altair Aquilla, Aldebaran, and especially Sirius-B where >Pleiadean humanoids, Draconian reptiloids and joint >"collaboration" forces are currently at war. The epicenter of >this war is now gravitating to the Sol system where the >Draco-Orion forces are using Nemesis (a "Dark Star" beyond our >system in the direction of Orion yet closer than Alpha Centauri, >a protostar which was not quite large enough to ignite into a >star and instead became a nearly invisible frozen planet about >the size of Jupiter). Nemesis has been sending planetoids to >earths vicinity which are actually hollowed carriers which have >served as staging bases for the Grays' abduction, implantation, >mind control programming, mutilation, and infiltration agendas >in collaboration with a network of secret Bavarian-based >societies. These planetoids have been here since at least 1953 >when two of them took up geosynchronous orbits around earth >simultaneously, which led to the CIA's contacts with the Grays >and the subsequent landing at Muroc-Edwards AFB in 1954 and the >resulting GREADA54 treaty. It is interesting that an anonymous >source in the Ames Research Center confirmed that the asteroid >Geographos (the one the Clementine probe was going to intercept >and on which it was going to "test" an SDI particle beam >disintegrator) had made at least 12 course alterations in the >period of 6 months. You should also keep an eye on Hale-Bopp >comet, whith is ejecting spiral jets of dust from its interior >at 17 day intervals, when in reality normal "coment" halos are >produced by solar winds blowing gas and ice off the SURFACE. In >addition to this I have heard that Hale-Bopp has made at least 4 >course-alterations, one of them being a 70 degree turn. This is >interesting when you consider that at least one photo nicknamed >the "eyes of Hale-bopp" clearly shows TWO cometary cores. Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:09:29 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: Info? On 'Branton' >From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:21:45 -0500 >To: "UFO UpDates Subscribers":; >Subject: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' Regarding the post to skywatch from 'Branton' ... >Both sides have more or less been at a state of war or truce for >centuries however in recent years the "war" has been escalating, and has >raged more or less through Arcturus, Bernards Star, Altair Aquilla, >Aldebaran, and especially Sirius-B where Pleiadean humanoids, Draconian >reptiloids and joint "collaboration" forces are currently at war. The >epicenter of this war is now gravitating to the Sol system where the >Draco-Orion forces are using Nemesis (a "Dark Star" beyond our system in >the direction of Orion yet closer than Alpha Centauri, a protostar which >was not quite large enough to ignite into a star and instead became a >nearly invisible frozen planet about the size of Jupiter). Nemesis has >been sending planetoids to earths vicinity which are actually hollowed >carriers which have served as staging bases for the Grays' abduction, >implantation, mind control programming, mutilation, and infiltration >agendas in collaboration with a network of secret Bavarian-based >societies. These planetoids have been here since at least 1953 when two >of them took up geosynchronous orbits around earth simultaneously, which >led to the CIA's contacts with the Grays and the subsequent landing at >Muroc-Edwards AFB in 1954 and the resulting GREADA54 treaty. It is >interesting that an anonymous source in the Ames Research Center >confirmed that the asteroid Geographos (the one the Clementine probe was >going to intercept and on which it was going to "test" an SDI particle >beam disintegrator) had made at least 12 course alterations in the >period of 6 months. You should also keep an eye on Hale-Bopp comet, >whith is ejecting spiral jets of dust from its interior at 17 day >intervals, when in reality normal "coment" halos are produced by solar >winds blowing gas and ice off the SURFACE. In addition to this I have >heard that Hale-Bopp has made at least 4 course-alterations, one of them >being a 70 degree turn. This is interesting when you consider that at >least one photo nicknamed the "eyes of Hale-bopp" clearly shows TWO >cometary cores. To anyone interested, as an amateur astronomer of long-standing, it becomes immediately obvious that the above is pure baloney due to two points (I'm sure most of you don't even need these, but I thought I'd toss them out anyway): 1. Note the references to large numbers of classical star names. There are BILLIONS of stars out there, even in our immediate vicinity. No what do you think are the chances of only stars named by us earthlings being the centers of "galactic intrigue"? Next to nil. There are many millions of totally unnamed stars which would be more likely candidates. - A common mistake I've seen by others who post such baloney elsewhere: they grab an astronomy book an start picking nifty names. Sorry guys. 2. "Hale-Bopp has made at least 4 course-alterations, one of them of them being a 70 degree turn". That's hilarious! Hale-Bopp is still visible (faintly) in the southern hemisphere as it continues to recede. Comets follow classical orbits which are elliptical, parabolic, or perhaps hyperbolic. But they DO NOT MAKE "a 70 degree turn". If Hale-Bopp had done such a thing it would have been world news long before now. Well anyway - my apologies for flogging a dead horse in front of this esteemed congregation.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:17:33 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:24:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >From: Jeff Rense <eotl@west.net> >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:25:52 -0800 (PST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Surprising Call To Jeff Rense >11-16-98 >Note - During my three hour interview with controversial British >UFO researcher Tim Matthews last night, 11-15-98 a caller, >"Mike", phoned in to relate what may be important new >information regarding the now legendary Phoenix Lights event(s) >of March 13, 1996. <snip> >We also have Peter Davenport's (Director, National UFO Reporting >Center) statement that an on-duty Air Force source stated to him >that the F-16 pilots sent aloft to identify the unknown craft >returned to base and were so shook up over what they had seen >they had to be helped out of their cockpits. Puh-leeze! Experienced jet fighter pilots so shook up over something they'd _seen_ that they had to be scooped out of their cockpits like quivering bowls of Jell-O? How many handlers did it take to lift the poor slobs out of their seats? Did they soil their pressurized suits in the process? Give me and everyone else who follows this thread a well deserved break! And quit giving us anonymous sources. No name, no credibility, period, simple as that.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Blather: Energy Fields! - Shields Up! From: Daev Walsh - Blather <daev@blather.net> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:11:11 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:58:18 -0500 Subject: Blather: Energy Fields! - Shields Up! ______________________________________________________ B L A T H E R p a r a n o r m a l p r o v o c a t e u r i s m By Dave (daev) Walsh daev@blather.net Web: http://www.blather.net _______________________________________________________ November 13th 1998, Dublin, Ireland Vol 2. No. 27 _______________________________________________________ ENERGY FIELDS! - SHIELDS UP! It is with grave disappointment that Blather discovered the writings of one Eamonn Ansbro sullying the pages of *Catalyst* magazine (Autumn '98), an otherwise worthy publication standing for the triple principles of 'ecology', 'empowerment' and 'evolution'. The current issue includes coverage on the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development's *Multilateral Agreement on Investment*, a matter which, in the past, has given this writer cause to put pen to paper. But we digress. Despite apparent yearning for governmental acceptance and scientific credibility, this time Eamonn Ansbro, speaking for the joint venture of the Irish Centre for UFO Studies (ICUFOS) and the Programme for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Research (PEIR) has gone the whole hog by making some remarkable claims... (Blather has mentioned Ansbro and Co. often enough in the past, evidence of which can be gleaned from the archives, so we shall spare the readership from the meticulous agonies of the total dissection of the rather turgid article in *Catalyst* magazine.) On August 21st 1997 Blather reported that 'Eamonn [Ansbro] is inclined to refer to [UFOs] as "constructs", rather than 'craft', as he reckons these objects may be the "beings" themselves rather than a vehicle, or that the objects may not even be vehicular in any sense'. (http://www.blather.net/archives/issue1no15.html) - which was a not unreasonable concession for a purveyor of the extraterrestrial hypothesis. CRAFT /kra:ft/ (3) n. a boat or vessel. an aircraft or spacecraft (Oxford Concise Dictionary - other irrelevant meanings of 'craft' omitted) These days, or at least for the purpose of the *Catalyst* article, the words 'craft' and 'vehicle' are littered about unselfconsciously. Have the ICUFOS given up on their 'construct' theory, or do their theories vacillate, and do they just happen to use whatever term suits their needs and the occasion? Because now they seem confident to assume that UFO = Alien Craft. What happened to their theory that UFO = Alien Being? For example, they now tell us that 'through a study of vehicular UFO Close Encounter events we can now show that such CE [Close Encounter] activity is satisfactorily explained as being an important element of an astronautical surveillance of Earth by technologically advanced spacecraft.' No hedging of bets there, that's for sure. Also in the article, under a heading of 'Successful Predictions', one in particular stands out - '*December 14th 1997* - Dublin, Bantry and Boyle Co. Roscommon - simultaneous multi-witness event. Switchboard jammed with callers to FM104 in Dublin.' Yes, as Dame Chance would have it, the radio interview with the Dublin ICUFOS was carried out using the official Blather cellphone - long time Blather readers may recall this writer's adventures on a certain section of North Dublin coastline last year, titled *War of the Wetlands*. (http://www.blather.net/archives/issue1no32.html) If any of the ICUFOS folk who were on Bull Island that night saw something, they certainly didn't share it with Blather, as it was with a mild air of despondency that we ended the skywatch at 2200 hrs. However, FM104's radio presenter Chris Barry had managed to drum up a roaring trade in excited phonecalls about a 'strange star like light hanging directly over Dublin Bay, which seemed to be flickering different colours'. Alan Sewell of ICUFOS was on the line from Boyle, Co. Roscommon and did his best to explain that it was merely the star, Sirius (he could see it too, half-way across the country!). As Blather reported at the time, 'this wasn't good enough for some people... who phoned in maintaining that their UFO was 100 times bigger than any star'. So... if one wishes to put their faith in Blather's version of the tale, UFO reports from Dublin *which ICUFOS themselves had explained as Sirius* have now been promoted to successfully predicted UFO sightings. And that's not the worst of it, PEIR claim to be in some form of 'contact' with the alleged UFOs: 'Back in 1996 at the landing site, the ET's (sic) were preparing our bodies, in particular our energy fields, the contact was indirect in the sense that it was not 3-dimensional, but direct in the sense that we all felt, sensed, heard or saw clairvoyantly energies and beings not of our world. At all times they appeared to be benevolent, loving and desirous of lifting us up to a higher frequency - after all, that is in reality the end goal for all of us - the lifting of our vibrations so that we may be more sensitive to theirs as well as more in tune with our own higher potentials'. 'It's all a bunch of tree hugging hippie crap' - Eric Cartman, South Park, Colorado Although, the Blather battle-shields usually fly up at the mere open-ended use of the word 'energy', an almost random consultation of one our century's most enigmatic explorers of the human psyche, i.e. Carl Gustav Jung, elicits a reasonable assertion of the emotional phenomena described above: '...our present-day consciousness possesses no conceptual categories by means of which it could apprehend the nature of psychic totality. It is still in an archaic state, so to speak, in which apperceptions of this kind do not occur, and accordingly the relevant contents cannot be recognized as psychic factors. Moreover, it is so trained that it must think of such images not as forms inherent in the psyche but as existing somewhere in extra-psychic, metaphysical space, or else as historical facts... In other words, the rounded wholeness of the mandala becomes a space ship controlled by an intelligent being. The usually lens-shaped form of the Ufos may be helped by the fact that psychic wholeness, as the historical testimonies show, has always been characterized by certain cosmic affinities: the individual soul was thought to be of "heavenly" origin, a particle of the world soul, and hence a microcosm, a reflection of the macrocosm.' (*Flying Saucers*) [Mandala (Sanskrit): 'Magic circle... symbol of the centre goal, or of the self as psychic totality; self-representation of a psychic process of centring; production of a new centre of personality' (*Memories, Dreams, Reflections*)] In essence, what Jung proposes is that the UFO phenomenon, or at least some aspects of it, are caused by the attribution of personal psychic characteristics to a heavenly archetype, e.g. a god or 'superior' alien, rather than a recognition of the characteristic as belonging to the self. Such a recognition would apparently result in the individual becoming 'whole'... becoming, in some sense, a god. While it may seem rather trite or cocky to lob quotes back at the claims of extraterrestrial proponents such as ICUFOS or PEIR, let it be known that Blather places no direct criticism on the *beliefs* of such folk, it is merely their methodology in rousing support that raises our ire. Neither do we necessarily evangelise Jung's theories over the those of PEIR. But if Jung is anyway correct in his assertion of the UFO phenomenon, then we would cautiously propose that interpreting claims of PEIR and other such organisations are a matter of how one separates the wood from the trees. As Jung points out in *Memories, Dreams and Reflections* (p 310) while Buddha preached that by overcoming the *Nidana-chain* - the chain of causality or inevitability of life and death - every human could achieve illumination, Buddhism has today seemed to become an exercise in devout imitation of Buddha's life, therefore missing Buddha's point by a good Swedish mile. Are some aspects of the UFO phenomenon comparable? Dave (daev) Walsh Friday 13th 1998 _______________________________________________________ *Catalyst* (Autumn '98) 124 Cork St. Ireland catalystmagazine@hotmail.com C.G. Jung, *Flying Saucers - A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky*, (1959), pp. 32-33 ISBN 0-7448-0062-5 (http://bot.fringeware.com:80/product/BOOK-1-56731-121-0) C.G. Jung, *Memories, Dreams, Reflections*, (1961), pp. 310, 415 ISBN 0-00-654027-9 Irish Centre for UFO Studies (http://freespace.virgin.net/ic.ufos/) Programme for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Research P.O. Box 6284 Dublin 3 Ireland peir@connect.ie MANDALAS: The Mandala Series (http://www.jashford.com/mandalas.html) Links to Sites on Jungian Psychology (http://www.jashford.com/mind.html) Mandala Drawing (http://newage.miningco.com/msub126.htm) _______________________________________________________ Dave (daev) Walsh 6th November 1998 daev@blather.net _______________________________________________________ Ostlan - Dublin Restaurant Guide http://www.ostlan.com/ Independent reviews of Dublin's Restaurants and Bars In addition to our selection of reviewed restaurants, we offer a searchable database of over 270 Dublin restaurants, saving you time with the phonebook while making bookings. But it's not all our opinions. There's also a discussion area where you can share your views on restaurants and bars in Dublin. Go ahead and have your say - only please don't speak with your mouth full. _______________________________________________________ In November's ever-splendid ept: the Voice of Evil points out a collection of small errors Boo hails the return of simple shampoo David Moore wonders what you do with your email Amelia wants to know ALL about you Merciful Lee Dickens hears Bob Dylan fight back Internet vistas of grace and the scum of the www PLUS your letters, Vapourware, a new Dublin-based novel and 'Could This Be You?' All at http://www.inept.com _______________________________________________________ SPONSORSHIP: While Blather will always remain free to the subscriber, we're always willing to talk to interested parties with regard to sponsorship. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Re: 'Abduction' On Video From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:04:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:41:50 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Abduction' On Video >From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:04:33 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Abduction On Video >Hello list, >I was recently perusing my video collection when I came across >a segment of Paranormal Borderline that was always particularly >intruiging to me. It involved a piece of video that seemed to show >the abduction of a worker from a factory in Florida. >That show was the only one I ever saw dealing with that tape. Does >anyone know if follow up work was done on this case? Assuming that >someone has not disovered glaring evidence of a hoax, I have noted >several details that I would like to discuss with anyone interested. >If anyone has new information, please contact me. >Muchos glocose. >Greg =======================> Hi Greg, (and beans and burritos to you too!) hi All, Yes! I saw that when it first aired and wondered about it myself. If anyone has any information on this piece of video I would like to ask them to please post it to the UpDates list for all to read! I am _very interested_ in information Re: this clip, myself. Thanx, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net INTRUDERS FOUNDATION/ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:03:46 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:27:51 -0500 Subject: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? Greetings, List: The RPIT (Roswell Photo Interpretation Team) needs your suggestions as to where to go next in its quest to solve the half-century Riddle of Roswell. As you know, during the past six months this dedicated group of highly skillful international volunteers has diligently utilized the latest in photo analysis technology to independently restudy the photographs of General Roger Ramey, 8th Air Force commander; Colonel Thomas Dubose, his chief of staff; and Major Jesse Marcel, Sr., staff intelligence officer, which I took in the general's office on July 8, 1947, while they were examining the wreckage of an officially announced "flying saucer" just flown in from Roswell, New Mexico. The astonishing results of this investigation have stunned the UFO community into rethinking the entire Roswell Event. In examining the photos RPIT has discovered numerous plainly visible "out of this world" anomalous objects which have not been identified and for which no source has even been suggested by any UFOlogist. This includes what appears to be carefully crafted and carved symbols which appear to RPIT members to be "writings" in no language known on earth. Further, RPIT has been able to read in part the official message held in the hand of General Ramey in the four shots taken of him which make reference to "victims of the crashed DISK being transported to Fort Worth" from "Site Two" near Magdalena, N. Mexico, and further appears to suggest or order the general to issue an announcement as to a "weather balloon" cover-up. The RPIT members all have posted their initial findings on their personal web sites and all of which are linked to my link page at: http://www.ufomind.com/people/j/johnsonj/James Bond Johnson I am today contacting my neighbor and just re-elected to a fourth term as Member of Congress, Rep. Steve Horn, to request his assistance in requiring the appropriate US government agency to aid in determining the nature of these RPIT discoveries (if not already known!) and to permit RPIT members to examine the Roswell wreckage. The basis for my request is: If there are no hidden secrets or classification issues connected with the Roswell Event then it should be a simple matter for the federal government to finally "unlock the Roswell craft garage" after 51 years! (No civilian is known to have been allowed to examine or even view the wreckage since I departed General Ramey's office late on July 8, 1947.) Even if the government can't identify RPIT what the researchers have found they can let RPIT members take a look for themselves. RPIT appreciates the several members of the List who have come forward with valuable suggestions and assistance since the RPIT Roswell Revisitation Report No. 1 was issued on November 1, 1998. Any additional suggestions also will be welcomed as together we search for answers to the Riddle of Roswell of 1947. James Bond Johnson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 16 Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed... From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:07:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:04:23 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed... >From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed and the Alien Body Snatchers >Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:11:09 PST >G'day Michael, Ignatius & List, >What really puzzles me about this is the supposed behaviour >-outright aggression - of a psychologist against a higher being >(by higher I mean 'not an animal' in our normal context). This >being may have been acting out of genuine self protection and, >as the 'DR.' did not see the total interaction between the dog >and the alien, he may have done the equivalent of murder. >It somehow strikes me as being too irrational unless he was >aggressively approached by the alien - was this ever stated?. >Was he an anger therapist who 'lost it' ;-) ? >Regards, >Leanne. Hi Leanne, According to Dr. Reed, he saw the alien destroy his dog, and admitted that he was very emotionally unbalanced when he struck the being. He said that he was sick and could not even walk for close to an hour. Art seemed to indicate that the video, clearly showed that he was in an emotional state judging from his actions and voice on the video. Dr. Reed, Robert Raith, Whitley Strieber are supposed to be on again to finish the story hopefully this week. The Dr. seemed very sincere in his live broadcast, but something or nothing will come out of it soon. Ed Dames said the other night that he intended to remote view the incident himself. Michael
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 17 Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:56:44 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:16:50 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed >From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:11:09 PST >Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:51:54 -0500 >Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed... Previously, Leanne wrote: >What really puzzles me about this is the supposed behaviour >-outright aggression - of a psychologist against a higher being >(by higher I mean 'not an animal' in our normal context). This >being may have been acting out of genuine self protection and, >as the 'DR.' did not see the total interaction between the dog >and the alien, he may have done the equivalent of murder. >It somehow strikes me as being too irrational unless he was >aggressively approached by the alien - was this ever stated?. >Was he an anger therapist who 'lost it' ;-) ? Leanne, All I can say is that I hope Dr. Reed is a better psychologist than he is a photo retoucher. As I noted in a previous post, the photo of the "ship" is one of the silliest I've ever seen. The shadows on the trees are clearly on the opposite side as the shadows on the "ship". What a joke. Must be that new prototype alien cloaking mechanism; designed to make all photos of their ships look like fakes! Later,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 17 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:50:16 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:37:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >From Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com> >Subject: Military UFOs/ Phoenix Lights >Date: Tuesday 17 Nov 1998 04:30:39 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >Subject: Phoenix Lights Solved? BUFOSC 98 >Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:32:56 -0000 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Back in the real world I was talking to rather more >than 200 believers - 2 million intelligent and >thinking Americans more like - this weekend. This is >where we are at; spreading the truth to thousands on >the Internet and several millions on the radio and >making a REAL impact!! And that's despite the hate >campaign, the smears, the lies and the threats. >Nothing can keep us down! >NEWSLASH! XTRA XTRA!! >This is just another nail in the ETH/PSH camps >failing theory that nobody at nearby Air Technical >Intelligence >Centre (HQ'd at the very same >Wright-Patterson AFB!!) or within the >'Sign','Grudge', 'Blue Book' fiction factory 'knew >anything' about flying discs! Asking relatives of >long dead intelligence officers is hardly >the way to make progress. As these researchers get >more desperate to bury our research we are getting >more information day by day. Hey Tim, Thanks for finally solving this long drawn out mystery otherwise known as UFO research, do we have your kind permission to stop looking into cases which are brought to our attention, of weird and wonderful flying craft. Maybe you could photocopy your Military UFO answer, and circulate it around the world so every researcher could get a copy. And when they receive phone calls from the public regarding UFO sightings the researcher could then tell the caller "Hey no need to worry Sir/madam I am going to post you the answer to what you have just seen". "But a little check before we can send it, we will have to make sure that you are totally aware of your governments special above top-secret-super-duper-most-high-nuclear-driven-anti-gravity-hoo ver-powered propulsion-system-Aircraft in use at this time,if you know this then you will have no problems in understanding the answer". Oh and yes you must also have at least some knowledge on what the German Air engineneers were getting up to, as well as the Air engineneers in the US from about 1930 to 1960, well we don't want to make it to easy for you do we. Well folks, can't hang about I've got a meeting with a extraterestial FT which is gonna take me for a cruise round town! Oh boy do I love silent mode on them FT's you can really get upto some mischief. Roy.. A fully paid up member of the Pro-ETH Alliance
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 17 Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:51:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:41:38 -0500 Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:21:45 -0500 >To: "UFO UpDates Subscribers":; >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto >[This is a repost originally dated: Tue Sep 03 14:16:21 1996 from >the days before The UpDates Archive at Ufomind.com --ebk] _________________________________________________________________ >'Branton' has been the subject of some speculation >in the past. 'His' sizeable posts to The Net and >various UFO Conferences have contained both >verifiable and, what many consider to be, 'high-fantasy'.> >Those of you who read 'his' stuff will know exactly >what I mean. Below is what appears to be a bio >from 'Branton'. Rumours are that 'he' is probably >a collective-name for a group of individuals.> >ebk ________________________________________ >From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) >Organization: SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL >To: "Mailing list " >Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:28:17 -0700 >Subject: (Fwd) Branton Speaks out.............> >------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >From: Branton >Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 20:17:57 -600 >To: skywatch@wic.net> >Dear Colonel;> >I just recently signed up on your E-Mailing list and I want to thank you >for the effort that you are making.> >I am an abductee who has experienced suppressed encounters with grays >and humans throughout an underground system that spans the western base >of the Wasatch-Rocky mountains in Utah.> <snip> (who needs this stuff, anyway?) GLARG/ retch!!!! Shades of KRLL! For the "newbies" to whom rumors of an underground war at Archeluta Mesa near Dulce, NM may come as somewhat of a surprise, even shock. I woul like to point out that about 10 years ago a reputable UFO investigator, Dr. James McCampbell, decided to take Dr. Bennewitz seriously. Bennewitz and an abductee were the sources of the Dulce story which goes back to the late 70's, early 80's. Bennewitz was a guy with mental problems of his own.... and here he was working with a potential abductee. Oh, well, that was back when abduction was"young" and we had lots to learn. Be that as it may, Bennewitz provided "accurate" drawings based on aerial photos he had taken while flying over the Mesa in a hired helicopter. Bennewitz indicated on the diagram the crashed saucers and laser weapons and secret entrances, etc. All very precise. Only one problem. None of it was true. Checks of the Mesa by several investigators following McCampbell confirmed McCampbell's conclusion: all these alien artifacts and leftovers of a "war" were figments of Bennewitz's imagination or reading to much into th dark and light shaded areas in aerial photos. The bottom line I was told by several people I would trust is that there is nothing, rien, nada..... at the Archeluta Mesa (there is a ranch there, howver) that would confirm Bennewitz' story of an underground base with vats of human body parts, etc, My response to bringing up all this garbage again is.... Klaatu, where are you when we need you?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 17 Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:23:10 PST Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:07:19 -0500 Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In >Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:54:52 -0800 >From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? >>Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 06:45:36 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: "Steven W. Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> >>Subject: Re: No More Arial Photographs Of Crop Circles In UK? >>Since the issue seems to revolve around the >>passenger/photographer it would seem that the solution would be >>to automate the photographic process somehow. My guess is that >>this strict enforcement of the law (or at least this >>interpretation of it) won'tstop the determined crop circle >>photograph entrepenuers. >>This may be a rather large question to ask, but I'm curious as >>to the legal status of 'UltraLight' aircraft in Great Britian. >>Steve >Actually, the problem is just that private pilots are not >allowed to receive compensation for flying activities. A pilot >needs a commercial license to do that. It sounds like the UK >equivalent of the FAA is looking into the possibility that >"commercial" activity is occurring from aircraft piloted by >private pilots. It is exactly the same situation here in the >U.S. The solution to this is easy, just use a pilot with a >commercial license. G'day List, This should be easily defeated in a court of law on the principle that the purpose of the flight proper (the airtime) is not in itself a commercial flight. The fact that a passenger (or even the pilot) may take a photo which is itself later sold should be of no consequence. Using the reported logic of the CAA, a pilot who writes a book for profit based on their aerial exploits would also be in breach of the law. A non-sensical argument if ever there was one! Regards, Leanne ];-)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 17 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:34:09 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:14:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:17:33 -0600 (CST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >>From: Jeff Rense <eotl@west.net> >>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:25:52 -0800 (PST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >>Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Surprising Call To Jeff Rense >>11-16-98 >>Note - During my three hour interview with controversial >>British >>UFO researcher Tim Matthews last night, 11-15-98 a caller, >>"Mike", phoned in to relate what may be important new >>information regarding the now legendary Phoenix Lights event(s) >of March 13, 1996. ><snip> >>We also have Peter Davenport's (Director, National UFO >>Reporting Center) statement that an on-duty Air Force source >>stated to him that the F-16 pilots sent aloft to identify the >>unknown craft returned to base and were so shook up over what >>they had seen they had to be helped out of their cockpits. >Puh-leeze! >Experienced jet fighter pilots so shook up over something they'd >_seen_ that they had to be scooped out of their cockpits like >quivering bowls of Jell-O? How many handlers did it take to lift >the poor slobs out of their seats? Did they soil their >pressurized suits in the process? >Give me and everyone else who follows this thread a well >deserved break! >And quit giving us anonymous sources. No name, no credibility, >period, simple as that. >Dennis Dennis, One of your neighbors, a Mr. Wilson, stopped by just a short while ago. He asked me if I knew what you wanted to be, when
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 17 'Alien Dawn' by Colin Wilson - Review From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:25:59 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:18:51 -0500 Subject: 'Alien Dawn' by Colin Wilson - Review Received via 'alt.alien.visitors' November 17 at 08.27 (GMT + 1 hour). Stig ******* Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:10:47 GMT From: ata@nauticom.net Subject: Alien Dawn review Message-ID: <72r7hn$2lp$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> I've posted a book review of Alien Dawn, the new book by noted philosopher Colin Wilson. Alien Dawn is Colin Wilson's take on the UFO phenomena and people who believe they have been contacted by aliens. Alien Dawn presents an exhaustive history of UFOs and the contact experience and will be of interest to all UFO and alternative history fans. >From the book review, you can access a book excerpt on crop circles and an article on the riddle of the Antarctic maps. You can access Alien Dawn and the book excerpts at: http://www.cihost.com/ata/dawn.htm Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------------- All-Terrain -- The Adventure Travel and Paranormal E-Zine http://www.nauticom.net/users/ata/index.html -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 17 Asteroid And Comet Impact Hazards From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:53:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:21:11 -0500 Subject: Asteroid And Comet Impact Hazards From the Space Guard Survey, NASA. Go to: http://impact.arc.nasa.gov/index.html Includes a scientific review of the asteroid and meteor impact movies Armageddon and Deep Impact.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 17 Re: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:00:53 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:52:18 -0500 Subject: Re: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:03:46 EST >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? >Greetings, List: >The RPIT (Roswell Photo Interpretation Team) needs >your suggestions as to where to go next in its quest >to solve the half-century Riddle of Roswell. Hi All, Sorry it's been a little quiet from this end, we had "another" attempted break in at home this last Thursday, 4 weeks to the hour since the last, curious huh?. Upset my wife Ann quite a bit, she was in bed ill at the time and was awakened by the noise!. She phoned the police at once but the patrol cars got there just too late to collar the slime. At least they didn't get in, seems our security upgrade's are working at last, though it's depressing that society's going this way and forcing into turning our homes into cages!. This Englishman's home is fast becoming his "castle". But back to the real world<g>. I have been approached by a documentary producer who is also the technical/inovations editor for the London Sunday Times. He is currently negotiating with the UK Channel4 network to produce for them one or more UFO related documentaries, one he mentions that they will be "pitching" at CH4 is a program dedicated to "expert witness" testimonies. An interesting idea. I've replied to him outlining were thing's are up to with the RPIT and I'll keep you informed as to where this might lead. ?Comments please? >Colonel Thomas Dubose, his chief of staff; and Major Caught a bit of documentary on cable this last Saturday which showed a piece of video of the hypnotic regression of Col Dubose back to the events on that afternoon in 47. My own impression was that his statements were refering to the "1st" batch of debris (Mac Brazell's) that were forwarded the day before Jesse Snr arrived in Fort Worth. He was quite adament that they were "ordered" to put out the "cover story" of the weather balloon AND there was no mention at all of a debris switch in fact the portion I saw made no mention at all, so it seemed of the following days events when the "B29 full" of debris arrived. Bond, have you ever contemplated undergoing hypnosis to help any further recolections of that day's events?? It seems a worthy tool, _If_ handled correctly. >I am today contacting my neighbor and just reelected to >a fourth term as Member of Congress, Rep. Steve Horn, >to request his assistance in requiring the appropriate US >government agency to aid in determining the nature of >these RPIT discoveries (if not already known!) and to >permit RPIT members to examine the Roswell wreckage. >The basis for my request is: If there are no hidden secrets > or classification issues connected with the Roswell Event >then it should be a simple matter for the federal government > to finally "unlock the Roswell craft garage" after 51 years! >(No civilian is known to have been allowed to examine or >even view the wreckage since I departed General Ramey's > ffice late on July 8, 1947.) Even if the government can't >identify RPIT what the researchers have found they can >let RPIT members take a look for themselves. Maybe he can request any surviving communications into and out of Carswell/Fort Worth air base for the period in question, it would be nice to see the carbon copy of the Ramey Paper!. But I strongly suspect they've been "lost" as with the RAAF communications records!. Neil. -- * * * * * * * * Neil Morris. /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\ Dept of Physics. 1 1 Univ of Manchester 0 0 Schuster Labs. 1 Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES 1 Brunswick St. 0 0 Manchester. 1 1 UK. \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/ G8KOQ E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk Roswell and Alien Autopsy Archive-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ Dave Willetts Home Page-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/ Mike Sterling Home Page-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/mike-s/ Tim Morgan Home Page -> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/tim-m/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 17 Sighting 11-17-98 of V-shaped Formation? From: Sue Lawrence <NevadaFighter@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 05:10:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:58:42 -0500 Subject: Sighting 11-17-98 of V-shaped Formation? Last night at 12.05 am 17th November 1998, two witnesses saw a large V-shaped formation of lights fly over north London. The formation came into view whilst they were watching the Leonid meteor shower, and was definitely not part of the shower itself. Did anyone else see this formation? If so please contact me immeditaely. Thanks,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 17 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:13:34 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:03:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:17:33 -0600 (CST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >>From: Jeff Rense <eotl@west.net> >>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:25:52 -0800 (PST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >>Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Surprising Call To Jeff Rense >>11-16-98 >>Note - During my three hour interview with controversial British >>UFO researcher Tim Matthews last night, 11-15-98 a caller, >>"Mike", phoned in to relate what may be important new >>information regarding the now legendary Phoenix Lights event(s) >>of March 13, 1996. ><snip> >>We also have Peter Davenport's (Director, National UFO Reporting >>Center) statement that an on-duty Air Force source stated to him >>that the F-16 pilots sent aloft to identify the unknown craft >>returned to base and were so shook up over what they had seen >>they had to be helped out of their cockpits. >Puh-leeze! >Experienced jet fighter pilots so shook up over something they'd >_seen_ that they had to be scooped out of their cockpits like >quivering bowls of Jell-O? How many handlers did it take to lift >the poor slobs out of their seats? Did they soil their >pressurized suits in the process? But Dennis, Jeff Rense is not saying that the caller referred to this. The caller was talking about a possible scenario involving a military helicopter. Big deal. Perhaps these Phoenix Lights have to be 'evidence' of "ET" craft before as debate starts. I am sure that the hundreds of thousands of listeners to Jeff's excellent programme are able to make their own minds up about this kind of information.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 18 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:25:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:48:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:34:09 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? <snip> >>Puh-leeze! >>Experienced jet fighter pilots so shook up over something they'd >>_seen_ that they had to be scooped out of their cockpits like >>quivering bowls of Jell-O? How many handlers did it take to lift >>the poor slobs out of their seats? Did they soil their >>pressurized suits in the process? >>Give me and everyone else who follows this thread a well >>deserved break! >>And quit giving us anonymous sources. No name, no credibility, >>period, simple as that. >>Dennis >Dennis, >One of your neighbors, a Mr. Wilson, stopped by just a short >while ago. He asked me if I knew what you wanted to be, when >you grow up? >Jim Dennis raises a good point. How much credibility do we give to an anonymous source as proof of anything? This genre is littered with the tales of those who provide false and mis-leading (or mis-interpreted) information, which has in turn lead many researchers down paths that later turned out to be based on fuzzy logic and self-serving theories. I don't think that this information should necessarily be ignored, but using unattributed statements as building blocks to develop a theory or position seems like a rather shaky foundation upon which to build. Just a thought. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 18 Remote Viewer on #Visitations From: Angela Shilling <ashill@visitations.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:15:55 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:57:09 -0500 Subject: Remote Viewer on #Visitations Angela Thompson-Smith Remote Viewer on #Visitations. Saturday, November 21st 7pm Pacific / 9pm Central / 10pm Eastern / 3am GMT Where: #Visitations on the Undernet http://www.visitations.com/ How to Get to IRC: http://www.visitations.com/irc BIO: Remote Perceptions by Angela Thompson ABOUT THE AUTHOR Angela Thompson MS., Ph.D. (Candidate) is a researcher, writer and lecturer currently living in Las Vegas, Nevada. She was born in Bristol, England, in 1946, and holds degrees in psychology from the University of Wales in Cardiff and Manchester University, England. Her professional training and research experience have been in the fields of nursing and social work, parapsychology, human consdousness, and cognitive science. Angela has a long and sound background in Remote Viewing (RV) research and teaching. She has logged 17 years of personal research, 7 years work in established laboratories (including Princeton University), 5 years of remote viewing consulting, and 2 years of teaching Extended P, emote Viewing (EP, V). Angela acknowledges that everybody has some RV ability and that remote viewing is a normal, trainable skill. Past RV consulting with PsiTech, the Intuition Network, and Intuition Services have covered projects ranging from stolen artwork, the Unabomer case, archaeological sites, missing persons. historical enigmas, space exploration, Earth changes, and future technologies, Angela is a member of the New York Academy of Sciences and the Society for Scientific Exploration, She has appeared on international, national, and local television (Strange Universe, BBC, CBC), has been interviewed on radio shows (Art Bell, Truth Seeker, Inner Source) and given talks for both scientific and general audiences (Star Visions, Whole Life Expo). Authorities in the RV field , such as Paul Smith and Lyn Buchanan have encouraged her work and Ingo Swann has written the Foreword to Angela's book Remote Perception. BOOKS Thompson Smith, Angela (In Press - 1998). Remote Perception: A Personal Exploration Into The Phenomenon Of Remote Viewing. Hampton Roads Publishing Company, Carlottesville, VA. Undernet Servers: McLean.VA.us.undernet.org Arlington.VA.US.Undernet.Org StLouis.MO.US.UnderNet.org LasVegas.NV.US.Undernet.org SaltLake.UT.US.UnderNet.Org Baltimore.MD.US.Undernet.Org RockHill.SC.US.Undernet.Org dallas.tx.us.undernet.org plano.tx.us.undernet.org Regensburg.DE.EU.undernet.org Antwerpen.Be.Eu.Undernet.org Gothenburg.SE.EU.Undernet.org graz.at.Eu.UnderNet.org Caen.Fr.Eu.UnderNet.org London.UK.eu.Undernet.org Vancouver.BC.CA.Undernet.Org montreal.qu.ca.undernet.org toronto.on.ca.undernet.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 18 Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:31:09 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:01:16 -0500 Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:51:28 -0500 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:21:45 -0500 >>To: "UFO UpDates Subscribers":; >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto >>[This is a repost originally dated: Tue Sep 03 14:16:21 1996 from > >the days before The UpDates Archive at Ufomind.com --ebk] >_________________________________________________________________ >>'Branton' has been the subject of some speculation >>in the past. 'His' sizeable posts to The Net and >>various UFO Conferences have contained both >>verifiable and, what many consider to be, 'high-fantasy'.> >>Those of you who read 'his' stuff will know exactly >>what I mean. Below is what appears to be a bio >>from 'Branton'. Rumours are that 'he' is probably >>a collective-name for a group of individuals.> >>ebk >________________________________________ >>From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) >>Organization: SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL >>To: "Mailing list " >>Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:28:17 -0700 >>Subject: (Fwd) Branton Speaks out.............> >>------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >>From: Branton >>Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 20:17:57 -600 >>To: skywatch@wic.net> >>Dear Colonel;> >>I just recently signed up on your E-Mailing list and I want to thank you >>for the effort that you are making.> >>I am an abductee who has experienced suppressed encounters with grays >>and humans throughout an underground system that spans the western base >>of the Wasatch-Rocky mountains in Utah.> ><snip> >(who needs this stuff, anyway?) >GLARG/ retch!!!! >Shades of KRLL! >For the "newbies" to whom rumors of an underground war at >Archeluta Mesa near Dulce, NM may come as somewhat of a >surprise, even shock. I woul like to point out that about 10 >years ago a reputable UFO investigator, Dr. James McCampbell, >decided to take Dr. Bennewitz seriously. Bennewitz and an >abductee were the sources of the Dulce story which goes back to >the late 70's, early 80's. Bennewitz was a guy with mental >problems of his own.... and here he was working with a potential >abductee. Oh, well, that was back when abduction was"young" >and we had lots to learn. >Be that as it may, Bennewitz provided "accurate" drawings based >on aerial photos he had taken while flying over the Mesa in a >hired helicopter. Bennewitz indicated on the diagram the >crashed saucers and laser weapons and secret entrances, etc. >All very precise. >Only one problem. None of it was true. Checks of the Mesa by >several investigators following McCampbell confirmed >McCampbell's conclusion: all these alien artifacts and leftovers >of a "war" were figments of Bennewitz's imagination or reading >to much into th dark and light shaded areas in aerial photos. >The bottom line I was told by several people I would trust is >that there is nothing, rien, nada..... at the Archeluta Mesa >(there is a ranch there, howver) that would confirm Bennewitz' >story of an underground base with vats of human body parts, etc, >My response to bringing up all this garbage again is.... >Klaatu, where are you when we need you? >(Gort, put down that disintegrator!). Bruce, why not go ahead and tell the rest of the story, how our buddy, William "Bill" Moore, allegedly (according to his own confession at the 1989 MUFON International Convention) had Bennewitz railroaded into a "mental hospital" where he received "shock treatments" for his "alleged" mental aberations. Moore took a specific interest in Bennewitz and decided he was going to get to the bottom of his claims. Bennewitz not only had pictures, but he had motion picture movies which he had taken of these UFOs coming and going near the air base and in the hills in Albuquerque, NM. I guess I need to get my files on Bennewits out so I can quote from the directly, rather than from memory. Remember, Bruce, one man's trash is another man's Treasure.... REgards, Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent this way will go directly to my screen.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 18 Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:08:50 PST Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:04:50 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:56:44 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed >>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >>Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:11:09 PST >>Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:51:54 -0500 >>Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed... >>What really puzzles me about this is the supposed behaviour >>-outright aggression - of a psychologist against a higher being >>(by higher I mean 'not an animal' in our normal context). This >>being may have been acting out of genuine self protection and, >>as the 'DR.' did not see the total interaction between the dog >>and the alien, he may have done the equivalent of murder. >>It somehow strikes me as being too irrational unless he was >>aggressively approached by the alien - was this ever stated?. >>Was he an anger therapist who 'lost it' ;-) ? >Leanne, >All I can say is that I hope Dr. Reed is a better psychologist >than he is a photo retoucher. As I noted in a previous post, the >photo of the "ship" is one of the silliest I've ever seen. The >shadows on the trees are clearly on the opposite side as the >shadows on the "ship". What a joke. Must be that new prototype >alien cloaking mechanism; designed to make all photos of their >ships look like fakes! >Later, >Roger Evans Roger (& List), I agree it looks extremely trashy _and_ light absorbant! I could see no indication of this 'craft' reflecting its environment or even the natural 'play of light' that we would expect to see on any 3-dimensional object bathed in natural light. An obvious fake! The 'convenient' disappearance of the corpse was laughable. Regards, Leanne.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 18 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Ted Viens <drtedv@freewwweb.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:27:07 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:11:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:17:33 -0600 (CST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >>From: Jeff Rense <eotl@west.net> >>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:25:52 -0800 (PST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >>Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? - Surprising Call To Jeff Rense >>11-16-98 >>Note - During my three hour interview with controversial British >>UFO researcher Tim Matthews last night, 11-15-98 a caller, <<<yada yada>>> >>returned to base and were so shook up over what they had seen >>they had to be helped out of their cockpits. >Puh-leeze! >Experienced jet fighter pilots so shook up over something they'd >_seen_ that they had to be scooped out of their cockpits like >quivering bowls of Jell-O? How many handlers did it take to lift >the poor slobs out of their seats? Did they soil their >pressurized suits in the process? Now, now, Dennis... As any avid science program viewer knows, the crotches of pressurized suits are lined with the latest in disposable diaper technology so that any soiling can be done as the need arises... >Give me and everyone else who follows this thread a well >deserved break! >And quit giving us anonymous sources. No name, no credibility, >period, simple as that. >Dennis Bye... Ted..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 18 Re: Asteroid And Comet Impact Hazards From: Bob Soetebier <bikebob@mo.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:41:36 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:14:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Asteroid And Comet Impact Hazards Be sure to check out _The Mars Mystery: The Secret Connection Between Earth and the Red Planet_ by Graham Hancock (hardcover/344 pages; June 1998; Crown Pub; ISBN: 0609600869). The last two or three chapters in this book are very illuminating on the ever-present reality of the this threat to our planet. BTW...my wife and I spent from 11:30pm to 3:30pm (CDT) last night/early this morning outside (with over an hour of that time atop the highest mountain -- Taum Sauk -- in Missouri, in the S. Central part of the state) in total enthrallment of the dozens upon dozens of "Leonids" meteors. Among this "storm" of meteors, we were treated to 3 excellent example of "green-flare" meteors, too. Also, about a half-dozen of the stronger, more brilliant meteors, left long-lasting meteor trails (smoke). Two or three of these "smoke" trails persisted (in progressively convoluted form, of course, as they were shaped by the wind) in the night sky for almost 20 minutes! An absolutely incredible show!!! This even beat the great show put on by the Perseid (mid-August) meteor shower of a couple years back. At that time, we were treated to dozens of meteors in a couple of hours. (The 1998 Perseid meteor shower was a poor performer here in Missouri, though, even though we had great viewing weather for it. We're really thrilled that the Leonids have more than made up for it. :) Bob Soetebier St. Louis County, Missouri, USA Tailwinds to you... See you ON the road!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 18 NASA's Comet Observation Home Page From: Bob Soetebier <bikebob@mo.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:48:50 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:19:06 -0500 Subject: NASA's Comet Observation Home Page In the current issue of Michael Lindemann's "CNI News" (www.cninews.com) there is mention of a "Comet 1998 U5". Be sure to check out this URL mentioned in regard to that reference in "CNI News": http://encke.jpl.nasa.gov Bob Soetebier Tailwinds to you... See you ON the road! /// BICYCLE BOB /// bikebob@mo.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 18 Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:26:00 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:21:16 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:56:44 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed >>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >>Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:11:09 PST >>Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:51:54 -0500 >>Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed... >Previously, Leanne wrote: >>What really puzzles me about this is the supposed behaviour >>-outright aggression - of a psychologist against a higher being >>(by higher I mean 'not an animal' in our normal context). This >>being may have been acting out of genuine self protection and, >>as the 'DR.' did not see the total interaction between the dog >>and the alien, he may have done the equivalent of murder. >>It somehow strikes me as being too irrational unless he was >>aggressively approached by the alien - was this ever stated?. >>Was he an anger therapist who 'lost it' ;-) ? >Leanne, >All I can say is that I hope Dr. Reed is a better psychologist >than he is a photo retoucher. As I noted in a previous post, the >photo of the "ship" is one of the silliest I've ever seen. The >shadows on the trees are clearly on the opposite side as the >shadows on the "ship". What a joke. Must be that new prototype >alien cloaking mechanism; designed to make all photos of their >ships look like fakes! >Later, >Roger Evans Well said, Roger! However, perhaps the most impoprtant aspect of this case is that it poses the new - what if? What if this case was real? Would aliens abduct the guilty party and hold some form of trial on board? As I said previously, the pictures posted on the esteemed Fred Bell show did not have any of the usual suspects of aliens. Decent hoax art but a liability to credibility. In real life perhaps the judge would be a Nordic, the attorneys would be Reptilians, and the bailiffs would be Greys. What would be the sentence? How would it be carried out? Do Whitley Strieber or Pamela Stonebrooke have any knowledge or speculations regarding the alien justice system? I hope you don't mind my humor taking up bandwith. Those who know me are aware of my serious interest and investigation. But man, after having had word by word acounts of flame wars, I'm taking a little lattitude for humor. After all these years I can only laugh at mentally challenged hoaxers. Hoaxers and hucksters - what a weird fraternity! Joshman <g>
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 18 Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:50:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:24:18 -0500 Subject: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale Received via the Skywatch mailing list November 18 at 13.07 (GMT + 1 hour). Stig ******* -----Original Message----- From: ippoz@eisa.net.au [mailto:ippoz@eisa.net.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 6:58 PM To: Skywatch International Subject: URGENT Meteor lands in OZ and for sale.. Short message.. We have received instructions from a gentlemen called "Mr Johnathan" who said that he and his friends watched the Leonid meteor event this morning 18/11/98. He apparently sighted many meteorites together with one that appeared landed somewhere. Sometime later he found the following FOR SALE A jet black Meteor found in Australia on the 18/11/98 its weight is 7 kilos and it is about hand size.. The location of this find will be kept a secret due to local considerations. More info call.. Ross Dowe Phone Australian mobile phone 0416 305 889 for details.. ippoz@eisa.net.au ***************************
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 18 Three 'Bird-Colonels' & Holloman AFB From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:05:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:05:31 -0500 Subject: Three 'Bird-Colonels' & Holloman AFB >Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:31:09 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=3D[For The Record]=3D- Info? On 'Branton' >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: -=3D[For The Record]=3D- Info? On 'Branton' >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> <snip> >Bruce, why not go ahead and tell the rest of the story, how our >buddy, William "Bill" Moore, allegedly (according to his own >confession at the 1989 MUFON International Convention) had >Bennewitz railroaded into a "mental hospital" where he received >"shock treatments" for his "alleged" mental aberations. >Moore took a specific interest in Bennewitz and decided he was >going to get to the bottom of his claims. >Bennewitz not only had pictures, but he had motion picture >movies which he had taken of these UFOs coming and going near >the air base and in the hills in Albuquerque, NM. I guess I need >to get my files on Bennewits out so I can quote from them >directly, rather than from memory. >Remember, Bruce, one man's trash is another man's Treasure.... 'Speaking' of which' - Holloman came up again in my life this past weekend. During a phone conversation with James M. McCampbell, author of Ufology: New Insights from Science and Common Sense' (Belmont, Ca.: Jaymac Company, 1973) this past Saturday, November 14, Jim dropped a new-one on me re. The Holloman 'Landing'. He almost casually mentioned that three military "Bird-Colonels" - MDs "left with the visitors."! On their return, one Colonel went insane, one died and Jim didn't know what happend to the other. I've scoured the archives here and couldn't find any reference to the 'Bird Colonels' - does anyone have anything further to Jim's story? Below, for those who haven't any idea what I'm refering to are a couple of files from the archives here... ebk <<<>> Date: 05-10-94 (07:32) Number: 4615 of 4650 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: JOHN POWELL Subj: UFO Meeting Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE (Echo) Conf: F-BAMA (955) Read Type: READING ALL (+) * Originally By: Ken Bozeman * Originally To: All * Originally Re: UFO Meeting * Original Area: NASA Discussion and Q&A Echo * Forwarded by : Blue Wave v2.12 OS/2 The Eclectic Viewpoint Newsletter May 1994 THE UFO LANDING AT HOLOMAN AFB STRANGER THAN FICTION? o Does the Government have Film Footage of a UFO Landing at Holloman AFB o Did Nonhuman Entities Exit the Disk and Communicate with the Base Commander? o What was so Different about the Appearance of these Aliens as Compared to those We Hear about Today? -!-------------------------------------------------------------- May, 1971. Three disk-shaped craft appear over Holloman AFB in the desert of New Mexico. One craft lands, three humanoid occupants emerge and are greeted by scientists and military representatives. They retire to a building where they meet for several hours. All or most of the landing episode is captured on several hundred feet of 16mm. movie film. A few years later, the film production team of Alan Sandler and Robert Emenegger (noted individually for their work with such well known client as Bank of America, Armand Hammer, and Richard Nixon) are contacted by high ranking Pentagon and Air Force personnel. The Defense Department wants to improve its image with a series of documentaries on space science break-throughs in areas such as atomic fusion, 3-D moving holography, mind to computer communication, and the amazing capabilities of animals being trained for use in warfare. It is suggested that a documentary to capitalize on the public's fascination with UFOs is a possibility. A carrot is dangled in the form a promise that the Holloman landing film can be used for the project. Sandler and Emenegger decide to use it as the stunning climax to a full length documentary portraying the history of the UFO phenomenon. In an unprecedented move, full cooperation is given by the Air Force and Pentagon as well as past Blue Book officials, NASA, and leading sociologists and psychologists. However, at the last minute the promised use of the Holloman film is withdrawn. It is suggested that the landing simulated while speculating that this event might have happened in the past or could happen in the future. Despite being denied access to the actual Holloman film, the documentary UFO's, Past, Present and Future is completed in 1974 with Robert Emenegger writing the script as well as an accompanying paperback book of the same title. A classic in its field, with Rod Serling, Jose Ferrer, and Burgess Meredith hosting this well researched NBC Special, it is nominated for a Golden Globe Award and receives a 48% share of the viewing audience. In the lat 1970s, Emenegger and Sandler update their documentary with new footage narrated by Dr. Jacques Vallee, the astrophysicist and prominent ufologist who was the model for the French scientist in Steven Spielberg's Close Encounters of the Third Kind. The updated version is entitled UFO's: It's Begun. Since then, rumors about the documentary have swirled through the UFO research community- rumors fueled by the unanswered questions: Did the producers actually see the Holloman film? Were they able to slip a small snippet of the film into their documentary? Who was Alphonso Lorenzo, an individual said to be intimately involved in the landing-contact episode and whose military records were later purged? Why did the military offer the use of the film initially and why was it withdrawn? Now, in 1994, Robert Emenegger is prepared to publicly describe his involvement in these projects. Full of twists and turns, this "stranger than fiction" episode in the UFO saga will be explored in depth. As anyone can attest who witnessed his "coming out" at the 1994 Ozark UFO Conferen Bob Emenegger offers a fascinating account of his discussions and relations with military personnel regard the documentaries made with Sandler, the military's involvement with UFO-related matters, and the Holloman film itself. Mr. Emenegger's presentation is not only provocative and informative, but enlivened with his own wry sense of humor. A screenwriter and director for many documentaries, television specials, and feature films for TV syndication, Robert Emenegger is a 1965 UCLA graduate in film and winner of numerous First Place awards and Gold Medals in domestic and foreign film festivals. He is the producer and director of ten original science fiction feature films and four 2-hour documentaries for TV: laboratory; PSI Factor; Captive; and Time Warp. Other samples of Emenegger's works from Who 's Who in Entertainment include: The Day the Silence Came; Hypnosis and Beyond; Is Everyone Happy But Me?; and Death, The Ultimate Mystery. Before the lecture (7:30 p. m.), there will be a showing of the film UFO Past, Present and Future. At the conclusion of his talk, Emenegger will also show some interesting clips from Hypnosis and Beyond, including how a "Manchurian Candidate" can be created. Don't miss this fascinating lecture. (A special thanks to Tom Adams for background information used in this article.) -!-------------------------------------------------------------- When: Friday, May 20. 1994 Where: Radisson Hotel LBJ Freeway at Midway Rd. Dallas, TX Admission: $15.00 Hotline Info: (214) 601-7687 Times: 7:30 PM - Film 8:15 PM - Lecture -!-------------------------------------------------------------- Be sure to watch Prime Time Texas, Ch-8 on Tuesday, May 10, 1994 to see segment on the Eclectic Viewpoint and its founder, Cheyenne Turner. See EV_MEET.GIF for map to the Radisson Hotel. --- Blue Wave/QBBS v2.12 OS/2 [NR] * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence BBS (1:261/408.0) <<<>>> Two excerpts from: 'UFO's Past, Present And Future' Adapted by Sandler Institutional Films from an original screenplay by Robert Emenegger, Copyright pc 1974 by Sandler Institutional Films, Inc. Research by Alan Frank Sandler Special art and graphics by Celso Barroso Cover design by Con Pederson Copyright =A9 1974 by Sandler Institutional Films, Inc. All rights reserved under International and Pan-American Copyright Conventions. SBN 345-24189-4-150 First Printing: October, 1974 Printed in Canada BALLANTINE BOOKS A Division of Random House, Inc. 201 East 50th Street, New York, N.Y. 10022 Simultaneously published by Ballantine Books, Ltd., Toronto Canada Pages 127-29 Let us look at an incident that might happen in the future -- or perhaps could have happened already. The premise is that contact is made by extraterrestrial beings with representatives of the United States Air Force at Holloman AFB in the deserts of New Mexico. Early morning is breaking over the cool gray New Mexico desert. We are in the operations tower of Holloman Air Force Base at the landing field. We hear, over an intercom, a voice: "Check list April ... Charlie four standing by." From within the tower, we hear a control operator giving some data to a pilot: "Wind, northeasterly -- two knots. Temperature sixty-eight degrees, visibility ten miles and clearing." Behind the operator's voice, airmen are making small talk about the lousy coffee. The day is clear. It's about 5:30 A.M. Traffic is light; one recon plane is on the field ready for takeoff when the tower phone rings and Sergeant Mann is given a report of an approaching unidentified craft. We shift to the radar hut. On the scope several blips appear as the radar scans the sky. The radarman leans into his phone: "I'11 repeat it again -- unidentified approaching objects -- on coordinate forty-niner -- thirty-four degrees southwest following an erratic approach course..." The controller, sipping his coffee, responds: "Probably a stray -- civilian maybe? Keep me informed." He turns to his associate. "Check with Edwards." He scoots his chair up next to the radioman's. "Make contact with him, Bill." The radio operator depresses the talk button and flicks a control switch: "This is Holloman Air Force Base Control Tower. Identify yourself. You are encroaching on military air space -- warning -- identify yourself -- what is your tail number? You are in a restricted military air corridor." There is a pause and the airman turns to the controller: "No response." The controller searches the airman's face for a reaction. "My god, what the hell do you make of it?" He pushes the intercom, connecting him to the base commander. He passes his binoculars to the airman, saying, "Here, look through my glasses." Inside the commander's pale green office, a sergeant picks up the phone: "Base commander's office, Sergeant Whitmore speaking. Yes, yes -- hold on. Colonel, for you." The colonel swivels around in his chair and picks up the line: "This is Colonel Horner. Yes... yes, an unidentified vehicle. You warned the craft again? It's a what shape?... Check Edwards?... The civilian patrol? OK, right." The colonel sits for a moment with the phone in his lap, then makes a decision. Pushing a line on the squawk box, he leans forward: "Sound a red alert -- unidentified craft approaching." He rises and calls to his aide, "Bill, make a quick check with Wright-Patterson and Intelligence -- it may be an experimental craft from nearby. Alert the fire chief and security and safety." Searching for the plausible explanation, he mutters, "Sounds like a damned lunar module experiment." Two military interceptors are dispatched to escort the unidentified craft out of the area. By chance, cameramen, a technical sergeant and a staff sergeant, of the base photographic team, are aboard a base helicopter on a routine photographic mission at the time, and they run off several feet of film of three objects in the sky over Holloman. One of the objects breaks away and begins a descent. A second high-speed camera crew, set up to photograph a test launch, turn their camera toward the object and run off approximately six hundred feet of 16mm color film. The cameras continued to roll as the extraordinary vehicle comes into view. It hovers, almost silently, about ten feet off the ground for nearly a minute, and yaws like a ship at anchor. Then it sets down on three extension arms. The commander and two officers, along with two base Air Force scientists, arrive and wait apprehensively. A panel slides open on the side of the craft. Stepping forward, there are one, then a second, and a third -- what appear to be men dressed in tight-fitting jump suits. Perhaps short by our standards, with an odd blue-gray complexion, eyes set far apart. A large, pronounced nose. They wear headpieces that resemble rows of a rope-like design. The commander and the two scientists step forward to greet the visitors. Arrangements are made by some inaudible sort of communication and the group quickly retires to an inner office in the King I area. There they are met and guided to the end of Mars Street to the west area building number 930. Left behind stand a stunned group of military personnel. Who the visitors are, where they're from, and what they want is unknown. Page 138-40 The third and most comprehensive report was from a highly regarded psychologist in the field of social behavior. For reasons of his own, his name will remain confidential His analysis was peppered with enough levity to make it not only informative but enjoyable. He begins with the statement that available theory and research can be quite useful, but in a very limited way. He then dubs the Holloman Air Force Base incident as the "Humanoid-Organisms-Allegedly-Extraterrestrial -- HOAEX, for short." This he feels would be the reaction of the many eminent scientists, statesmen, journalists, and educators that were not asked to be present to witness the incident. The doctor states: The initial skepticism, and outright disbelief publicly expressed by many eminent scientific authorities as well as by other prestigious leaders of the national community who were not insiders will have a marked effect on the reactions of the U.S. public. They will call attention to the improbabilities of the TV press conference scenario such as: -- How likely is it that creatures from another world with the capability of sending emissaries here would do so without radio contact first'? -- How likely is it that the creatures could survive in the earth's atmosphere -- or are they in a sealed environment that they brought along with many years' supply of the gases they need, etc.? -- Would the representatives of a vastly superior civilization allow themselves to be kept at an Air Force base for three years? The announcement will also get a very ba' press from leading scientists and politicians in the Soviet Union and in other countries where the U.S. government, and especially the U.S. military establishment, is not trusted. Some of them will point out that the U.S. would not be wasting its time on presenting the HOAEX on TV unless they were up to no good. For example, they may speculate that the U.S. Air Force is planning to use a new destructive weapon against the S.U. and claim to the world, on the basis of its HOAEX show, that it was done by remote control. In the absence of any clear-cut demonstration that would be utterly convincing to the majority of scientists outside the little circle of the AFB, the authenticity of HOAEX will continue to influence the public's views and actions, even if supposedly convincing evidence is continuously being presented on later TV shows and in documentary movies by the AF and its scientists (and by other scientists invited to join the prestigious university lab to which the HOAEX visitors have been transferred- to counteract charges of an AF plot). Many of the scientists who initially attacked the credibility of the original TV show will have publicly committed themselves. And public commitment is a great source of resistance to persuasive communications that might otherwise change a person's mind; it leads the person to reduce dissonance or con6ict by bolstering his original position with new arguments. (Such studies have been made by: Deutsch, Krauss and Rosenau, 1962; Festinger,
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 18 'Branton' - Identity? From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:16:57 PST Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:10:07 -0500 Subject: 'Branton' - Identity? Errol- Branton is the abbreviation for one Bruce Allan Walton from Utah.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 18 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:56:50 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:13:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:25:52 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:34:09 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? ><snip> >>>Puh-leeze! >>>Experienced jet fighter pilots so shook up over something they'd >>>_seen_ that they had to be scooped out of their cockpits like >>>quivering bowls of Jell-O? How many handlers did it take to lift >>>the poor slobs out of their seats? Did they soil their >>>pressurized suits in the process? >>>Give me and everyone else who follows this thread a well >>>deserved break! >>>And quit giving us anonymous sources. No name, no credibility, >>>period, simple as that. >>>Dennis >>Dennis, >>One of your neighbors, a Mr. Wilson, stopped by just a short >>while ago. He asked me if I knew what you wanted to be, when >>you grow up? >>Jim >Dennis raises a good point. How much credibility do we give to >an anonymous source as proof of anything? This genre is >littered with the tales of those who provide false and >mis-leading (or mis-interpreted) information, which has in turn >lead many researchers down paths that later turned out to be >based on fuzzy logic and self-serving theories. >I don't think that this information should necessarily be >ignored, but using unattributed statements as building blocks to >develop a theory or position seems like a rather shaky >foundation upon which to build. >Just a thought. >Steve ===========================================> Howdy Doody Steve-arino; You are, of course, absolutely right on the money with that opine. Dead right on. And under ordinary circumstances I would either appologize or just let the admonition go with neither a tort nor a retort. However there is one, very, very important element involved in this particular scenario. Some time back, on another post, someone made the observation that the credibility of a report is directly proportional to reporter's credibility. For example, if The Right Reverend Doctor Billy Sol Sorgum got up one day and proclaimed that he was visited during the night, by the Good Lord Himself and the very same report was produced by, say, Steven Hawking, whose report would you consider more likely? OK, having said that, we have here statements made by a Jeff Rense and one by a Dennis Stacey. Cogito, ergo... my posts.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Mainstream Media Reports From: Bonnie Kudela <bonne@webtv.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:53:37 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:34:55 -0500 Subject: Mainstream Media Reports Dear Respected Observers/List: Is it just me, or are things appearing to escalate in respect to mainstream media attention to the UFO phemenon? Just in the past month The EQ radio signal (BBC News report) Now the extraordinary... (?) "story" of the dog and alien combat/"contact", covered by you know who. (All who know and love Art realize these "extraordinary" claims are common ground for the Bell show; mainstream none-the-less.) Now the apparent "event" said to supossedly transpire in Arizona on Dec. 7th.( This story is circulating the net.) All in all, from this avid casual observers perspective, it appears the "dis-informationists" are busy at work (or are they really the truth-sayers?). Something is happening in our midst. It appears (from my "vibe-barometer" readout) events are transpiring suddenly and rapidly and seem to indicate a major "event" is about to take place. I have no expertise to say "what" type of event it is that I anticipate, suffice that it will be "significant" historically. I expect more major media attention to follow. What do _you_ think is going on. (Looking at the '_big_' picture) Just my thoughts, and a question ( for the record.) Respectfully, Bonnie Kudela <^> AGE <^> Agts. For Global Enlightenment
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:10:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:39:20 -0500 Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:31:09 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:51:28 -0500 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >><snip> >>(who needs this stuff, anyway?) >>GLARG/ retch!!!! >>Shades of KRLL! >>For the "newbies" to whom rumors of an underground war at >>Archeluta Mesa near Dulce, NM may come as somewhat of a >>surprise, even shock. I woul like to point out that about 10 >>years ago a reputable UFO investigator, Dr. James McCampbell, >>decided to take Dr. Bennewitz seriously. Bennewitz and an >>abductee were the sources of the Dulce story which goes back to >>the late 70's, early 80's. Bennewitz was a guy with mental >>problems of his own.... and here he was working with a potential >>abductee. Oh, well, that was back when abduction was"young" >>and we had lots to learn. >>Be that as it may, Bennewitz provided "accurate" drawings based >>on aerial photos he had taken while flying over the Mesa in a >>hired helicopter. Bennewitz indicated on the diagram the >>crashed saucers and laser weapons and secret entrances, etc. >>All very precise. >>Only one problem. None of it was true. Checks of the Mesa by >>several investigators following McCampbell confirmed >>McCampbell's conclusion: all these alien artifacts and leftovers >>of a "war" were figments of Bennewitz's imagination or reading >>to much into th dark and light shaded areas in aerial photos. >>The bottom line I was told by several people I would trust is >>that there is nothing, rien, nada..... at the Archeluta Mesa >>(there is a ranch there, howver) that would confirm Bennewitz' >>story of an underground base with vats of human body parts, etc, >>My response to bringing up all this garbage again is.... >>Klaatu, where are you when we need you? >>(Gort, put down that disintegrator!). >Bruce, why not go ahead and tell the rest of the story, how our >buddy, William "Bill" Moore, allegedly (according to his own >confession at the 1989 MUFON International Convention) had >Bennewitz railroaded into a "mental hospital" where he received >"shock treatments" for his "alleged" mental aberations. >Moore took a specific interest in Bennewitz and decided he was >going to get to the bottom of his claims. >Bennewitz not only had pictures, but he had motion picture >movies which he had taken of these UFOs coming and going near >the air base and in the hills in Albuquerque, NM. I guess I need >to get my files on Bennewits out so I can quote from the >directly, rather than from memory. >Remember, Bruce, one man's trash is another man's Treasure.... >REgards, Mike Bill Moore did not railroad Bennewitz into a mental hospital. Bennewitz did have mental health problems according to a Psychologist I talked to before Moore got involved. Let's not dump when the evidence is contrary as opposed to repeated tales going way beyond what occurred. I was working very closely with Moore and was present when he gave his infamous talk in Las Vegas and chided him strongly about it later. STF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:31:54 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:11:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:25:52 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:34:09 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? ><snip> >>>Puh-leeze! >>>Experienced jet fighter pilots so shook up over something they'd >>>_seen_ that they had to be scooped out of their cockpits like >>>quivering bowls of Jell-O? How many handlers did it take to lift >>>the poor slobs out of their seats? Did they soil their >>>pressurized suits in the process? >>>Give me and everyone else who follows this thread a well >>>deserved break! >>>And quit giving us anonymous sources. No name, no credibility, >>>period, simple as that. >>>Dennis >>Dennis, >>One of your neighbors, a Mr. Wilson, stopped by just a short >>while ago. He asked me if I knew what you wanted to be, when >>you grow up? >>Jim >Dennis raises a good point. How much credibility do we give to >an anonymous source as proof of anything? This genre is >littered with the tales of those who provide false and >mis-leading (or mis-interpreted) information, which has in turn >lead many researchers down paths that later turned out to be >based on fuzzy logic and self-serving theories. >I don't think that this information should necessarily be >ignored, but using unattributed statements as building blocks to >develop a theory or position seems like a rather shaky >foundation upon which to build. Who is developing a theory and what's this about building blocks? Jeff merely put the account into general circulation. It's called the free exchange of ideas and are we now arguing for control of information before it is released? Are we saying that the 2 million listeners to "Sightings" are incapable of working things out for themselves. In that case, let's abandon democracy because people are too stupid to think things out..... As to self-serving theories and shaky foundations how's about the supposed evidence for "human-alien" contact that drives 99% of Ufology? It serves publishers and documentary makers rather well and provides the odd laugh for the millions of people who have the misfortune to hear certain unmentionable advocates for Ufology hammering yet another nail into its' shiny coffin...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:38:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:56:29 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed >From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed >Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:08:50 PST >>From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:56:44 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed >>>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >>>Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:11:09 PST >>>Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:51:54 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed... >>>What really puzzles me about this is the supposed behaviour >>>-outright aggression - of a psychologist against a higher being >>>(by higher I mean 'not an animal' in our normal context). This >>>being may have been acting out of genuine self protection and, >>>as the 'DR.' did not see the total interaction between the dog >>>and the alien, he may have done the equivalent of murder. >>>It somehow strikes me as being too irrational unless he was >>>aggressively approached by the alien - was this ever stated?. >>>Was he an anger therapist who 'lost it' ;-) ? >>Leanne, >>All I can say is that I hope Dr. Reed is a better psychologist >>than he is a photo retoucher. As I noted in a previous post, the >>photo of the "ship" is one of the silliest I've ever seen. The >>shadows on the trees are clearly on the opposite side as the >>shadows on the "ship". What a joke. Must be that new prototype >>alien cloaking mechanism; designed to make all photos of their >>ships look like fakes! >>Later, >>Roger Evans >Roger (& List), >I agree it looks extremely trashy _and_ light absorbant! >I could see no indication of this 'craft' reflecting its >environment or even the natural 'play of light' that we would >expect to see on any 3-dimensional object bathed in natural >light. >An obvious fake! If I may... Why is the aliens body blacked out from the neck down? Why are you on the run Dr. Reed? I'm sure Art himself could find a way to protect you from your pursuers. Give him your location and an army of dedicated listeners will come running to your aid. You'll be safe (?) although you will lose the control over the situation you now have. Perhaps "on the run" is a metaphor for being thrown out by your wife. Finally, I would like to know if the dog involved was a "good dog" or was he a discipline problem that was costing his owner money and patience. I think the aliens might be a cover story for something more sinister, Mulder was right! Now, what kind of fun can I have with this mask now that Halloween is over? Cheers, Rick Goldsmith
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:30:18 PST Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:06:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale >From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:50:07 +0100 >Subject: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale >Received via the Skywatch mailing list November 18 at 13.07 (GMT >+ 1 hour). >Stig >-----Original Message----- >From: ippoz@eisa.net.au [mailto:ippoz@eisa.net.au] >Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 6:58 PM >To: Skywatch International >Subject: URGENT Meteor lands in OZ and for sale.. >Short message.. >We have received instructions from a gentlemen called "Mr >Johnathan" who said that he and his friends watched the Leonid >meteor event this morning 18/11/98. >He apparently sighted many meteorites together with one that >appeared landed somewhere. Sometime later he found the following >FOR SALE >A jet black Meteor found in Australia on the 18/11/98 its weight >is 7 kilos and it is about hand size.. >The location of this find will be kept a secret due to local >considerations. >More info call.. >Ross Dowe >Phone Australian mobile phone 0416 305 889 for details.. >ippoz@eisa.net.au >*************************** >SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC. >(A Non-Profit Organization) Stig, Ross (& List) Someone better qualified than myself can please verify this . . . To the best of my knowledge it is illegal for people in Oz to own meteorite debris and therefore they (we) have no legal right to sell them. An act of parliament has laid claim to all such objects for the purposes of the scientific research and , therefore, for the whole community and not just those fortunate enough to find them and wanting to make a quick buck. These are the "local Considerations". Regards, Leanne ];-)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3 Number 46 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:20:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:20:26 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3 Number 46 Source: http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/v03/rnd03_46.html UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3 Number 46 November 16, 1998 Editor: Joseph Trainor Masinaigan@aol.com NEW TWISTS AND TURNS IN EQ PEGASI CONTACT CASE Controversy over the alleged alien radio signals from the star system EQ Pegasi continued this week, with many surprising twists and turns. On October 22, 1998, a UK man calling himself "Paul Dore" claimed that he had picked up a radio signal from EQ Pegasi, a binary star system 22 light years from Earth. Since then, the alleged contact has been the subject of much debate. On Tuesday, November 10, 1998, Richard C. Hoagland interviewed the "real" Paul Dore. Hoagland reported, "In summary, he (Dore) denied being the 'other' Paul Dore, denied meeting with NSA, denied printing anything or having any connection to the website. He has no idea why he was chosen, didn't know about SETI until the incident but is a real X-Files fan." The following day, Wednesday, November 11, computer operator David Dubowski announced that he "had evidence to show that (the real) Paul Dore is most likely the original" author of the EQ Pegasi message." The "smoking gun" was "a posting by Paul Dore on 11-7-98 (November 7, 1998) showing his email address and 'seticontact' name on the email." Dore, however, has consistently denied that he is the author of the "seticontact" messages and website. Meanwhile, strange coincidences involving EQ Pegasi popped up all last week. In the November 15, 1998 issue of CyberSpace Orbit, editor Kent Steadman reported that a new comet had been spotted in the constellation Pegasus. According to the Orbit, "On November 12, Timo Karhula," an astronomer "in Virsbo, Sweden" reported that Comet C/1998 U-5 was now "two magnitudes brighter than a week ago." (See the International Astronomical Union Circular #7045 for November 12, 1998.) In an interview, Steadman asked, "What constellation is the comet in now?" The astronomer replied, "Heading for Cassiopeia." "Was it ever in Pegasus?" Steadman asked. "Just left it. It's moving so fast. Reminds me of Comet Hyakutake." Karhula reportedly said the comet has shown "spectacular" outgassing and may be visible on Earth just before Christmas. On Friday, November 6, 1998, David Oates, a guest on Jeff Rense's Sightings on the Radio show, played tape recordings of USA Defense Department news conferences. "In one, 'December 7' can be heard, in the other 'Samson.'" This led a few ufologists to speculate that a UFO would land in the desert north of Phoenix, Arizona on December 7, 1998 as part of a military activity known as Project Samson. On Saturday, November 7, 1998, a caller on Laura Lee's show pointed out that the "star map" drawn by UFO contactee Betty Hill in 1964 shows the region of space where EQ Pegasi is located. A map of Pegasus was included in John G. Fuller's 1965 book on the Hill case, THE INTERRUPTED JOURNEY. Curiously enough, in 1965, Russian astronomer Dr. A.G. Sholomitsky said that an interstellar radio source, CTA-102, "may be sending out intelligent radio signals." The caller said, "If CTA-102, appearing near the 'globes' in her (Mrs. Hill's) map is in reality an artificial radio source, this would give the EQ Pegasi signal much additional credibility." However, astronomers dispute Sholomitsky's theory, insisting that CTA-102 is just another quasar, not some sort of interstellar "space buoy." Another strange coincidence surfaced later in the week when an item appeared, pointing out that "on October 22, 1995, Swiss astronomers Didier Queloz and Michael Mayor discovered a star that was a twin of our own sun," with a giant planet orbiting it. "The star was 51 Pegasus." The planet around 51 Pegasus was subsequently confirmed by astronomers Geoffrey March and Paul Butler of San Francisco State University. EQ Pegasi has even had an impact on religion. One researcher found this item in the Bible. It's from Revelation 19:11--"And I saw heaven opened, and I beheld a white horse," and added, "The only white horse in the sky is the constellation Pegasus." (Many thanks to Stig Agermose, Peter A. Gersten, Errol Bruce-Knapp and others for the reports on the EQ Pegasi controversy.) ALIENS ENCOUNTERED AT EL YUNQUE, PUERTO RICO On Saturday, November 7, 1998, a party of 15 members of UFOSICPR, led by Frederico Alvarez, and including Sra. Alvarez, eight regular members, two new members and four guests, drove out to the El Yunque National Forest for a skywatch. The group waited on Monte Brito between the peak and the television towers. Suddenly, Nestor, the group's treasurer, "began to show extreme nervousness. He began trembling and speaking in a faltering manner." Alvarez split the group in half and sent one team, including Nestor, back to the highway further down the slopes of Monte Brito. No sooner had they reached the road than Alvarez received a call on his cell phone. "They're here!" Alvarez was told. "They're right here in front of us." "What's going on?" Alvarez asked. By way of reply, all he heard were strange sounds coming from the telephone. Later, he reported, "No one could speak. Everyone down there was crying." When Alvarez and his team rejoined the seven members, they told him that they had seen aliens on the road's edge. "The creatures stopped and then said telepathically, 'Don't come any closer!'" The seven Puerto Ricans "remained there, instantly paralyzed by an unknown force. For three minutes, they were frozen in place, and then the creatures went into a nearby field and disappeared from view." Although carrying cameras and video equipment, the UFOSICPR team was unable to obtain any pictures. "One member had a pair of binoculars, and these refused to function." (Muchas gracias a Lucy Guzman para eso piso.) ORANGE UFO SEEN SOUTH OF SINGAPORE On Saturday, November 7, 1998, a group of men went fishing in the strait between city of Singapore and Pulau Batam Island. The island has a number of oil refineries and petrochemical complexes. "We first saw a band of orange light at about 7:20 p.m.," the witness reported, "At first we thought it was a light from a large building but, if it was, it was a tremendously huge sort of building, as the light was hovering above the ground about three times the height of the tallest (industrial) chimneys, and at that distance it had to be the length of three oil tankers." The fishermen watched "as it appeared to grow larger for about a minute. When he sought my opinion and pointed me toward the light, it was already at its longest length. A few seconds after this, the light seemed to grow smaller and smaller and eventually disappeared. I could not explain the phenomenon, and he can't either." (Many thanks to Ross Dowe of Australasian UFO Hotline for this news story.) A BUSY WEEK FOR UFOs ALL OVER AUSTRALIA Last week saw multiple UFO sightings down under, with incidents in South Australia, Western Australia and New South Wales. On Tuesday, November 10, 1998, witnesses spotted "a slow-moving bright orange fireball" in Newcastle, N.S.W., located 192 kilometers (120 miles) north of Sydney. The fireball "was in the southern sky travelling eastward for about four minutes. The illumination was extremely bright, and it appeared to be about 3 or 4 kilometers away and about 200 to 300 meters (660 to 990 feet) in altitude." At times the UFO appeared "to drop a bit, only to speed up. The illumination seemed to be heading out to sea with no sound." The same night, at Golden Bay in Perth, W.A., at 8:55 p.m., residents "reported sighting two bright orange fireballs, arcing from the southeast, heading east, and then changing back to the north. The illuminations passed directly over the BP (British Petroleum) Kwiwana oil refinery...They looked a bit like arc-welding emissions but without the sparks. They were four times bigger than Jupiter. As they approached the area, they changed from following each other to pair up next one another. The sky was clear, no moon, no clouds. They travelled faster than a twin propellor light airplane." On Thursday, November 12, 1998, at 1:30 a.m., residents in Arthurton, a town on the Yorke Peninsula in South Australia, located about 150 kilometers (90 miles) west of Adelaide, "reported seeing a large bright white light one kilometer away to the northeast, slowly moving downward. It was so bright it cast shadows from the buildings. It descended below the treeline, and still the glow from its light cast shadows." The UFO remained in the area for ten minutes before flying away. (Thanks to Ross Dowe of Australasian UFO Hotline for these news stories.) UFO SEEN BY HUNDREDS IN CENTRAL ARGENTINA The evening of Thursday, November 5, 1998, an objeto volador no identificado (OVNI) appeared over three cities in south central Argentina. The OVNI (Spanish acronym for UFO--J.T.) "crossed the sky in the provinces of Neuquen and Rio Negro on Thursday night, according to the testimony of numerous witnesses in the Patagonian cities." "The object could be seen by the residents of Neuquen, Cipolletti and General Roca, in the Alto Valle, in Rio Colorado and Viedma, as well as in the neighboring city of Carmen de Patagones," traveling from northeast to southeast. Neuquen and Cipolletti, its sister city across the Rio Neuquen, are located 520 kilometers (312 miles) southwest of Buenos Aires, the national capital. General Roca is 50 kilometers (30 miles) east of Neuquen. "Jose Luis Mazzone, an official in the town of Villa Chocsin, said he saw the phenomenon hover above (lake) Lago Ramos Mexia and described it as 'a ball of fire with a tail that hovered for several minutes above the horizon.'" "In Rio Negro are many, many police officers who saw it along the highway. On the bridge over the Rio Homenimi, at the entrance to Viedma, they said the OVNI 'was a very intense light, color blue, and that it developed other colors in shades of blue and yellow.'" "From testimonies received, it appears that the OVNI was seen between 9:15 and 9:30 p.m." (See Diario Popular of Buenos Aires for November 7, 1998. Muchas gracias a Carlos Iurchuk para esas noticias.) NEW UFO SIGHTING IN NORTHUMBERLAND, UK On Friday, November 6, 1998, Derrick G. Carvell "was out with my wife Anne for a walk with our dog" in Seghill, Northumberland, UK, about 250 miles (400 kilometers) north of London. "As we approached out parked van at 6 p.m.," Carvell reported, "I happened to look upward. Travelling in a northerly direction, I was amazed to see 12 white lights moving in a perfect line, one behind the other, almost like a train in the sky with white windows." "At arm's length, the row of lights appeared approximately three feet (0.9 meters) long. As they were more or less straight above us, their powerful lights flashed beams down to the ground, one after the other. They did this only once. The beams appeared angled and silvery in colour. Almost instantly, all of the lights dimmed but could still be made out as they moved off into the distance-- before fading completely from view." "The area of the sighting is only 6 miles from Norwich International Airport," he added, "I noticed that there were two more aircraft moving in toward the airport. Also, another aircraft was lining up to follow it in. The lights travelled across the area of sky near the two aircraft but at a much higher altitude. My brother tells me that the altitude of the aircraft on the path of approach to the airport would have been about 1,500 feet. The objects were at a much higher altitude. It is very difficult to be exact, but I would say in excess of 5,000 feet, taking into account the beams of light that reached ground level." (Many thanks to Dave Ledger of UFO Scotland and John Hayes for this report.) GREEN FIREBALL SEEN IN PLYMOUTH, MINNESOTA On Friday, November 4, 1998, at approximately 8:30 p.m., Ryan S. Eagan was at the intersection of County Road 9 and Plymouth Boulevard in Plymouth, Minnesota (population 50,889), located 12 miles (18 kilometers) west of Minneapolis, when he spotted a UFO. "I was waiting in a parking lot in Plymouth when I watched a large green fireball streak overhead, heading towards the northwest and descending towards the Earth. The object left a long green tail much like a comet. It seemed very low in altitude because it was below the overcast ceiling, and it was bright enough that I could see it descend behind some apartment houses, even though the flourescent lights of a nearby gas station were between me and the object. This sighting lasted between one and two seconds." (Many thanks to Ryan S. Eagan and Joel Henry of Minnesota MUFON for this news story.) (Editor's Comment: Two seconds to the horizon is much too fast for a conventional meteor, especially one flying below 12,000 feet, the cloud ceiling.) UFOs APPEAR TWICE IN SOUTHERN COLORADO More UFO action was reported last week in Colorado's San Luis Valley, about 280 miles (448 kilometers) southwest of Denver. On Thursday, November 12, 1998, at about 6:15 p.m., author/researcher Christopher O'Brien and his brother, Brendan, "were driving north in the Baca Grande (housing) development, and suddenly in front of us, framed in the windshield, we watched an extremely bright steady light rise quickly from behind the mountain in the Salida/Howard area." Salida (population 4,737) and Howard are on Colorado Highway 50, just west of the Sangre de Cristo Mountains. "The light, which was brighter and slightly larger than Venus and visible for about two minutes, shot upward, southwest to northeast, at a 25-degree angle. It rose upward, its speed, which at first appeared the same as a conventional jetliner, reached 1,000 to 1,200 miles per hour. As it climbed higher, it became smaller and smaller and disappeared in the southeast." Three hours later, at 9:45 p.m., two witnesses in Mesita, Colorado "were returning home when they spotted two bright, unblinking lights about 100 miles (160 kilometers) away to the northwest. The lights moved in tandem about one degree apart and appeared to be a single object. One witness observed the 30-second sighting with binoculars. The lights appeared to head southeast at an altitude of 3,500 to 4,000 feet" before heading for the San Luis Hills. "At its closest point" to the witnesses, "the object blacked out the background stars between its lights. Witness estimated that the distance between the lights was 'about 600 feet,' and he described the sighting as 'by far the most spectacular night sighting' he has witnessed." (Many thanks to Christopher O'Brien, author of THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY, for these news stories.) LARGE TRIANGULAR UFO SEEN AGAIN IN MONTANA On Tuesday, November 10, 1998, at 1:27 a.m., a very large UFO, dull gray in color and triangular in shape, was seen hovering above the Mission Mountains just east of St. Ignatius, Montana (population 778). According to former NASA contractor Robert A.M. Stephenson, the UFO was identical to the object seen hovering near Polson and Ronan, Montana between October 16 and October 30. "Cloud cover broke for the night, and the UFO was there as it had been only lower in altitude and slightly further south near the town of St. Ignatius," Stephenson reported. "Roughly ten miles south of Ronan and along the edge of the Mission Valley." The UFO was in view between 1:27 a.m. and 3:34 a.m. "During the time of clearing, the sky was exceptionally clear, stars in abundance, temperature in the 5 degree Fahrenheit range. No moon as it had set over the horizon to the west." Stephenson estimated that "the craft was eight nautical miles from my viewing locale at the manufacturing facility" in Ronan, Montana "and at an altitude of approximately 14,000 feet and four miles further south than the previous sightings." St. Ignatius is on Montana Highway 93 approximately 44 miles (70 kilometers) north of Missoula. (Many thanks to Robert A.M. Stephenson for this news story.) BLACK HELICOPTERS SEEN IN NORTH CAROLINA AND ARIZONA On Friday, November 13, 1998, at around 10 a.m., motorists driving past the airport in Murphy, North Carolina (population 1,575) were startled to see a black helicopter hovering right over the field in daylight. Unable to name the model helicopter, the witnesses described it as having a "narrow body" and "a sharp nose." Two Cherokee County women reportedly shot a videotape of the hovering chopper. According to local author Jon C. Ryter, there have been many black helicopter sightings in the towns of Andrews, Murphy and Topton, and the Nantahala National Forest, since October 10, 1998. The helicopters' presence is believed to be related to the ongoing federal effort to apprehend bombing suspect Eric Rudolph. Rudolph, 32, is wanted in connection with the bombing of an abortion clinic in Atlanta, Georgia. On Thursday, November 12, 1998, FBI agents spent the day "looking for the culprit who fired several shots into their command post," a warehouse in Andrews, N.C. (population 2,551). "The shots were fired Wednesday (November 11) about 8 p.m. One bullet penetrated an office wall, 'brushed the hair' of one agent and just missed hitting another, authorities said. Neither agent was injured." "Investigators recovered a handful of shell casings from a soccer field about 300 yards from the building, but they have not yet determined what prompted the shooting." (See USA Today for November 13, 1998, "Bullets fly into camp of agents on manhunt," page 19A) According to Ryter, residents of Andrews have been awakened nightly by low-flying black helicopters aiming high-intensity "Nightsun" spotlights through their windows. Ryter also reported that witnesses had seen two U.S. Army tank transporters stop at the intersection of a Nantahala Forest road and Highway 129 and offload two M1 Abrams tanks. On Thursday, November 12, 1998, an eyewitness, Robert C., reported, "Definite increase of military activity north of the San Francisco Peaks" west of Highway 89, about 15 miles (25 kilometers) north of Flagstaff, Arizona. He described a convoy of heavy cargo trucks guarded by black helicopters and an anti-aircraft vehicle "up near Deadmans Pass. What is going on?" (Many thanks to UFO Sky Searchers International for forwarding these reports.) DEEP SPACE ONE SUFFERS MYSTERIOUS ENGINE FAILURE Deep Space One began the first test of its ion propulsion engine on Tuesday, November 10, 1998. But, after four and a half minutes of operation, the engine mysteriously shut down. "The ion propulsion engine ran for four and a half minutes Tuesday before turning off," said John Watson, a spokesman for NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California. "Ground controllers tried several times without success to restart the engine." "It was the first time since Deep Space One's launch two weeks ago that controllers turned on the ion engine, the most intriguing of the 12 Star Trek style technologies being tested on the $152 million mission." "Watson said similar shutdowns have been observed during ground tests and on communication satellites equipped with ion engines." If the ion engine cannot be restarted, the spacecraft will be unable to complete its mission of a rendezvous with asteroid 1992 KD in July 1999. (See the Providence, R.I. Journal for November 12, 1998, "Experimental NASA engine shuts down.") MILLENIUM CEREMONY PLANNED FOR THE GREAT PYRAMID Last week, Dr. Zahi Hawass, Egypt's director of antiquities, announced plans to place a golden cap on top of the Great Pyramid as part of a ceremony celebrating the new millenium. "The pyramid has lost 30 feet of height, and the missing stones at the top give it a craggy appearance like the opening of a small volcano." "Now Egypt plans to make the Phraonic structure whole again by affixing a gold-encased capstone--if only for one night--to celebrate the advent of the third millenium on Dec. 31, 1999, the pyramid's custodian, Zahi Hawass, says." "At the same time, he proposed closing entry into the Pyramid forever to prevent it from being damaged beyond repair by the salty breath and curious fingers of 4,000 visitors a day." "'Why do you want to visit a tomb?' he asked. 'The magic is from the outside. Not from the inside.'" "Hawass said the millenium ceremony will be telecast live to a world audience, will mirror the pomp and revelry that must have accompanied the installation of the capstone by the Pyramid's builder, Pharoah Cheops, in a nationwide celebration some 4,600 years ago." "'You know it was built in the third millenium B.C. We are celebrating the third millenium A.D. Therefore, we should have something important to mark the occasion,' Hawass said." (See the Boston, Mass. Herald for November 14, 1998, "Egypt caps off plans for millenium pyramid party," page 14) (Editor's Comment: Why do we want to visit a tomb? Well, for one thing, I'd like to see the extent of the damage done to the interior by the "Hawass School of Jackhammer Archaeology." It would be nice if they reopened the Pyramid after the Illuminati have finished looting the Hall of Records. But don't bet your mortgage payment on that.) from the UFO Files... 1661: BELGIAN JESUIT SEES A UFO IN TIBET In November 1661, Father Albert d'Orville S.J., a Jesuit missionary from Belgium, visited the Buddhist monastery of Chaldan in Tibet and had a most surprising encounter. Here it is in Father d'Orville's own words: "November, 1661. My attention was first drawn to something moving in the heavens. At first, I thought it might be a species of bird, unknown to me, that lived in these regions. Then the object came nearer, taking on the form of a Chinese double hat and all the while rotating silently as if it were being conveyed through the air on invisible wings. This visitation was definitely a thing of wonder--or a magic trick. The object winged its way above the city exactly as if it wished to be admired. It circled twice and then was suddenly enshrouded in fog, and as much as I strained my eyes, I could no longer see it." "I wondered if the altitude at which I was could have been playing tricks on my eyes. Then I noticed a lama standing nearby. I asked him if he, too, had seen the object." "He answered by nodding his head and replying, 'My son, what you witnessed just now was not magic, because beings from other worlds travel across the oceans of space, and it was they who breathed the spirit into the first people who lived on this earth.'" "'These beings condemn all violence. They counsel mankind to love one another. Their teaching are like reeds, but if those seeds are sown on rocky ground, they cannot germinate.'" (Editor's Comment: The lama knows his New Testament, I see.) "'These beings, who are light-skinned, are always received by us in friendship, and they often come to Earth near our monasteries. They have continued to instruct us, revealing truths that were lost in the centuries of cataclysm which have changed the face of the Earth.'" (See THE CHINESE ROSWELL by Hartwig Hausdorf, New Paradigm Books, Boca Raton, Florida, 1998, pages 88-89.) Thirty years ago, on November 17, 1968, the unmanned Soviet (Russian) spacecraft Zond 6 completed its flight around the moon. And we'll be back next week with more saucer news from around the planet, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Recent UFO Sightings From Scotland - Part (1) From: Dave Ledger <dledger@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:42:06 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:48:32 -0500 Subject: Recent UFO Sightings From Scotland - Part (1) Hello Errol and listmembers, Here are a few recent reports from Scotland for any researchers or readers with an interest in Scottish Ufology or simply for those who like to collect sighting reports. Take care all and keep looking to the skies. All the best the noo! Dave Ledger (UFO Scotland) P.S: does anyone know if there was any VCR footage or film taken during the Belgium Triangle sighting of March 30-31st 1990? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Name : KAREN1 date: : SUN 13TH SEPT location: : CLYDEBANK time : 1:00 am Sighting : Around 1 AM on Sunday morning my boyfriend mentioned that the plane flying by our window looked strange.When I looked,there was a flash of white and we both got up to take a closer look thinking that perhaps it was a plane having engine trouble.The object flashed again lighting up the sky around it and continued to move slowly North.It then stopped and began to move back to the South and then hovered above some nearby trees for approximately 20 minutes.It then moved out of sight below the trees and then back up again vertically until it appeared like a bright star in the sky.The object was around aeroplane size and had red,blue and white lights.The movements of the object were like no plane or helicopter we have ever seen before. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: :5th October 1998 Location: : Star of Markinch, Glenrothes, Fife, Scotland Time : 20:30 pm Name : Witness Name Witheld. Sighting : As I was coming out of a house near the local school I saw something unusual in the clouds. I'm not entirely sure it was a UFO but it looked like some craft was hovering silently inside the cloud with rotating headlamps (4 sides)or it could have been a larger craft if it were a UFO. This lasted for about 15 seconds then it disappeared.The next night I saw it again around the same time but only for 5 seconds and in the same position which was probably somewhere over fields, the A92 between Glenrothes and Dundee. There were UFO sightings in the area in September 1996 which were reported to the Fife Free Press. Around this time I once woke up at 3am on Sunday morning and could hear a low-level humming sound moving about overhead the village. It was misty too but it lasted for about 20 mins and could not have possibly been an aircraft because the sound was coming and going. (Further Info based on E-mail interview) 1. Weather: It was cloudy, mostly overcast and not too cold. 2. Visual: No sound or unusual colours, just looked like lights. 3. Size: Either the size of a normal plane if it were shining spotlights or it could have been the size of the town of Markinch if I were seeing the lights of a larger craft. 4. Location: The anomaly was not over Star, probably half way between Star and Markinch near the A92 and about 3000ft up. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: : Sunday 18th October 1998 Location: : Tayport, Fife, Scotland Time : approx 2.30 AM. Name : Witness Name Witheld. Sighting : A very bright light in sky. It was static and there was no noise. It was definately not a star or a planet. We live near RAF Leuchars and are used to seeing various aircraft and it was not an aircraft. The night sky was very clear. I got my parents out of bed to come and look and they also witnessed it.When it was daylight I went out to have a look and see if there was anything such as a very large security light or a mast that could have caused what I saw, but there was nothing. (Further info following e-mail interview) Direction of light was South West 250 -300 ft above the horizon. . Approx Location of object was between Tayport and Newport (but not as the main road goes!) Object was low in the sky compared to stars. Light - very bright white light, did not pulse,and it gave off no beam. Size of object - comparison to large passenger aircraft on vertical position.All of the object was completely lit. No noticable noise from object or any other noise in area.I have checked locale for any clues as to object, ie security lights or something to support object such as post or mast, but nothing there.Further discussion has identified a further witness who saw the object approx midnight. Also, other witness living in same area as me saw an identical object from kitchen window approx a year ago. Additional Report:Witness Name Witheld. You may be interested that there was a UFO sighted in my home town of Tayport, Fife, Scotland last Sunday (18th?). This was seen as a very bright, static and noiseless light and was witnessed by a friend, his parents and a lady who works in the local golf club.Additionally, as my parents were driving home from Edinburgh last night, as they reached St Michaels, which is near Tayport and also a few miles from St Andrews, they witnessed a very large flash in the sky going in the direction of the North Sea. This was around 10pm, the sky was very clear and they are 100% certain that it was not any type of aircraft, a meteor, a firework, or lightning. -- ================================================================== If you see someone without a smile......give them one of yours :) ****************************************************************** Posted by: Dave Ledger (mailto:UFOSCOT@cableinet.co.uk) VISIT "UFO SCOTLAND" AT: http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/index.htm Reach us on ICQ #4851425 ****************************************************************** THE TRUTH IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER!..................BUT HOW FAR? ==================================================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Recent UFO Sightings From Scotland - Part (2) From: Dave Ledger <dledger@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:52:19 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:49:22 -0500 Subject: Recent UFO Sightings From Scotland - Part (2) Greetings again Errol & list, A few more reports from Bonnie Scotland FYI. Kind regards Dave Ledger (UFO Scotland) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Further Reports: UFO sighted by three in Kirkcudbright, Scotland. DATE: Monday 24th August 1998. Approx: 9:45 PM SOURCE: Source: Eyewitness Report by Ian John. We recently received this possible UFO sighting from Ian John who was on holiday with his family, in the Kirkcudbright area of Scotland, during August of 1998. Ian originally comes from Merseyside in Liverpool and wrote to tell us about his "all too familiar sighting" of an anomalous white light in the Scottish night skies.If any of our readers have any additional information regarding this sighting,then we would love to hear from them at the usual address.John's unedited report follows: Monday 24th August (about 9.45pm) My father, brother and I were travelling home from a days fishing in Scotland and where on the main road between Newton Stewart and Kirkcudbright just as the sky was darkening (you know the time, when its just dark enough to see the 4 or 5 brightest stars, but no others). I'm frequently out at night (either fishing or walking the dog) and I am quite familiar with the stars and plane lights etc in the sky. In the South Eastern sky just above the hills and trees I noted a very bright light. At first I assumed it was a planet (Venus was pretty prominent I think) which because of its relative position to the hills, and our viewpoint appeared bigger and brighter than normal (like the Moon does when its low on the Horizon) I made a point of saying to my dad and brother how bright that "star" was and paid it little attention for the next few minutes. The problem now was we were approaching a minor road to take us into Kirkudbright and it was a very twisty road. But as I looked for the bright star again I thought that it had moved. At first I dismissed it because the road was so bendy, but as the sky was darkening more and more stars were becoming visible so I noted the bright light`s position relative to a few stars that were a recognisable pattern to me. The problem then was we went behind one of several hills and I lost sight of the light. Once again I commented to my father and brother that I thought the star had moved and that it was probably a helicopter and not a star. At this point I was quite satisfied with what I`d seen was explainable and just carried on with the journey talking as per normal. About 3 or 4 miles from Kirkcudbright (I estimate), I noticed the light again and also noted that it HAD moved for definite this time, not only was it not within the boundary of the pattern of stars I`d noted, but now I viewed it from the passenger window, instead of through the top of the windscreen at the front. It also appeared slightly higher in the sky. By now I was convinced it was a helicopter, but I could hear no noise (unsurprising as I was in a noisy Land rover type car) and the light was constant with no other flashing lights, so I was a bit puzzled and I watched it closely. Then the freaky thing happened, The light (which was brighter than any star in the sky and almost twice the size) suddenly shrunk from an indefinable circular blob of light, into a perfect rectangular shape, clearly defined, then the rectangle faded, similar to a way a red hot piece of metal cools quickly, and disappeared. By now we were on the outskirts of Kirkcudbright and I said to my father and brother "did you see that ?" and explained to them what I saw. We scanned the sky again but the light was not to be seen. As we passed through the small town, our house lay just on the outskirts, south of the town, nestled between some hills and the estuary. Just before we left the town centre, the light reappeared in the South Eastern Sky as bright as when I first noticed it, coming on like someone switching on a light. As the road we were on was pretty straight I was able to observe the light moving from East to West for a few seconds before we lost sight of it behind the hills. The position of our house behind the hills made it awkward for me to observe further, besides It felt silly asking to go back out and watch a light and I saw nothing further despite looking from the garden on several occasions. I told everyone what I`d seen and my brother and father confirmed they`d seen the initial very bright light. I`d be interested in what people think what I saw was, I`m pretty used to night time air traffic with all the time I spend out at night fishing down the river Mersey near to Liverpool airport, but that one in Scotland really weirded me out ! I wanted to volunteer the information while it remains sharp in my mind, so I can keep everything as clear as possible. There is enough muddy water in this subject without me taking my stick out and giving it a swirl... I`ve been interested in UFO`s for a long time but this is the first time I saw something really odd like this. I'd be particularly interested if anyone can back up what I saw, I scanned the local papers in the days after both sightings I had but there was nothing and I`ve seen nothing on the Internet either. (Further info following e-mail interview) 1: What was the year of your sighting? This past August or 1997? It was this past August, 1998. 2: If you grant permission for us to use the report,do you request anonymity? Yes feel free to use the report, the more people read and understand about this the better, use my name if you want, I don`t mind . 3: Are there any other relevant details that you feel you may be able to add to your report or a picture or diagram etc? EG: Direction of object when first sighted to last sighting etc.Approximate Size compared to an object held at arms length? Brightness or luminosity of object.Any noises noticed? Weather conditions at time of sighting.Etc etc. Direction of object when first sighted : South South Eastern then North West wards away from the Solway Firth more inland, before fading. Reappeared in the Western sky before disappearing moving southwards, behind the hills near to where we were staying. Approximate size to object held at arms length : Slightly smaller than a penny when at its brightest Brightness or luminosity : Very bright, at least twice as bright as the brightest star in the sky at that time (which was Venus I think). Noises noticed : None, we were in a Frontera, a noisy car and even with the window down I could hear nothing. Weather Conditions : Very clear sky, less than 5% cloud cover I`d say giving me a clear view. ---------------------------------------------------------------- UFO sighted in Coupar Angus,Scotland? DATE: 10th July 1998 SOURCE: Witness Report via E-mail,Witness name witheld. location: Forfar,Kirriemuir Area. Name : Withheld by request. date: 10th July 1998 time :Approx 1 am. Sighting : Whilst walking the dogs down the drive at approximately 1 am on the 10th of July 1998, a flickering star caught my eye. It looked like it was shaking or moving or emmiting a flickering light. I thought it might be a plane moving and really gave it no more thought. Then I looked at another star and saw the usual orangy light, the other one however was a clearer light, a bit like these new car headlights. I got the binoculars out when at home to have a look. What I saw was definately stationery. Or if it was moving it was not that much.It was clear that it had three colours of flashing lights. Definatley red and green . It also appeared to have an amber light. However that might have been from the mixing of the red and green. These were flashing lights and seemed to be going on and off on different parts of the UFO, a bit like lights on a fairground attraction. It was diffcult to tell but it appears that the lights were only on the top half. Either that or the shape is like a cup upside down on a plate! The lights were very clear and flashing fast. (Additional info following an e-mail interview.) The Ufo itself was estimated to have been above the Forfar/Kirriemuir area of Coupar Angus. Angle / Degree in the Sky,approximately 45 - 55 degrees. The object was sighted almost due East, or perhaps North East. The duration was around 15 mins to half an hour, I would say 20 mins approx. There were no aircraft at all,visable or audible,in the area! The witness stated, "We are on a military flight path! Often 3 or 4 Hercules C130 transport planes fly over the roof or fighter planes, I do not know which type I am afraid.(Jaguar/Tornado's perhaps?)" The fact that the witness was accustomed to seeing low flying aircraft in the vicinity suggests that he was clearly able to establish that the anomalous lights sighted were indeed not any kind of normal aircraft.It should also be noted that the witness did get a good look at the object through a pair of binoculars and still could not identify it. Weather conditions were very clear for around 1am. All the stars were orange not very bright compared to sky as whole. It was still.Not to cold, infact relatively warm and minimal cloud cover. Size? as mentioned it was above the tree line but looked miles and miles up in the sky. To the naked eye it looked the same size as a star,which is what I thought it was at first. I am not sure about relative size but compared to the branches in the foreground it was about the size of a cross between a tennis ball and football. More tennis ball size though.Through binoculars that is not the naked eye! If held at arms length it would be marble sized. It was most definatley out of the ordinary from what I have seen, the lights on it, i studied for a while.They were Green and red, as sharp a colour as lights on planes and ships port and starboard. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Balloon type UFO sighted near Wick, Scotland DATE: 12th August 1998, Time : 11am Approx. SOURCE: Graham Macdonald Witness Report. Sighting : I was on a citylink bus travelling from Scrabster to Inverness, returning south after visiting my parents in the Orkney Islands. Somewhere between Watten and Wick I noticed what I took to be a balloon above a field perhaps a couple of hundred feet away. As the bus got closer I noticed that it was of an unusual shape it reminded me of "Santa clause" in that it was red in colour and had the vague shape of a man. I would estimate it was 50 feet off the ground and perhaps 10 feet tall. It had a very strange shape being roughly cylandrical with nobbly bits and a large green "hump" it had what looked like a rope attached with another balloon(?) attatched to it some 15 feet away from it, and was totally horizontal to it. What confused me if it was a balloon was that it was remaining stationary, I Could see no mooring ropes, plus it was very close to power cables and I thought this a strange place to moor a balloon. Plus it did seem windy, with the second balloon tied to the rope looking like it was being blown in the wind which would explain why the rope was horizontal. There were quite a few people on the bus and I did look to see if anyone else was looking at it but no one else seemed to be. I was too shy to bring it to the attention of anyone else as I didn't want to look foolish in case it was something normal! The bus didn't come any closer than perhaps 200 feet away from it but I saw it from several different angles and ranges, and there was definatly no ropes attaching it to the ground, and a balloon is the best description that I can apply to it as it was the strangest looking thing that I have ever seen. (Further info following E-mail interview.) I too had thought about some kind of observation balloon (perhaps military) but my best theory is that due to it's closeness to the power lines perhaps its used by Hydro Electric to inspect the power lines? But then I've never heard of anything like that being used in the area, and aerodynamicly the design of the balloon is a bit crazy. My freind suggested that perhaps it was used to scare birds from crops like a scarecrow, but the field it was over was just grazing grassland. Thinking about it more and doing some research on the web I am extremely suprised about the lack of oscillation by the main object, the small one on the rope was oscillating like a madthing in the wind but the main object displayed absolutley no movement of any kind. Also being Caithness the horizon is very low and this gave could viewing of the sky below the object and the ground and any tether/guy ropes should have been quite easy to see? Unless they were very thin, but then the light wasn't brilliant that day so maybe? Weather conditions were grey and overcast with a fairly medium wind blowing from the west i would say from the way the bushes were moving. Being in the bus it was hard to say exactly how strong the wind was. It's probaly relevant to say that i'm a keen Avaition enthusiast and am very familair with aircraft of all sorts. I'm also been intrested In UFOs for years ever since my grandfather told me of the Saucer that watched the Dounreay Nuclear Plant in the 1950's. -- ================================================================== If you see someone without a smile......give them one of yours :) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Posted by: Dave Ledger (mailto:UFOSCOT@cableinet.co.uk) VISIT "UFO SCOTLAND" AT: http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/index.htm Reach us on ICQ #4851425 ------------------------------------------------------------------ THE TRUTH IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER!..................BUT HOW FAR? ==================================================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:22:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:37:37 -0500 Subject: Re: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? Regarding... >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:03:46 EST >Subject: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? James wrote: >Further, RPIT has been able to read in part the official message held >in the hand of General Ramey in the four shots taken of him which >make reference to "victims of the crashed DISK being transported to >Fort Worth" from "Site Two" near Magdalena, N. Mexico, and further >appears to suggest or order the general to issue an announcement as >to a "weather balloon" cover-up. James, The 'Ramey telegram' may be indecipherable, however, as the printing consists of fixed spacing, this offers important clues to the probabilities. The number of letters in each word and the relative spaces between the words and lines seems to be consistent, verifiable by reference to any lines above or below. As such, this is the template for the portion of the message which is relatively visible: [All of the following requires a 'fixed font'] ... *** *** ******* ** *** ***** *** ********* ** *** ... ** **** *****, ***. ... ** *** ****** **** **** **** *** ****** ******** ... ** **** ****** ** ****** ******* ** *****??? *****(?) ... **** **** ******** ******* ** ***** *** ***** ... **** **** *** ** ** ******* ******** ***** **** ... **** *** **** ********* *****. ... ****** On the forth line, it's not clear if there are three letters as designated by '?' at the end of the second-last word. However, the spacing suggests they should exist. The exact length of the last word may be longer than five characters, that isn't clear either. Unfortunately, the available scan still leaves much of the message illegible and there are many letters which can only be guessed at. We can however determine the length of most visible words and that proves what isn't possible. Neil Morris' interpretation of the message was: 1) ---------------------------***ARY WERE --------------------- AS THE 2) --------------fxs 4 rsev1 VICTIMS OF The WRecK and CONVAY ON TO THE 3) -------------*** at FORT WORTH. Txe. 4) ------------***S** smiThs *ELSE* ***** unus-d**e T&E A3ea96 L******* 5) -------------SOught CRASHEs pOw*** *** N***** SITEOne IS reMotely ***** 6) -----------------***D** bAsE ToLd ***a* for we**ous BY STORY are ***** 7) -----------------lly thry even PUT FOR BY WEATHER BALLOONS n*d** were 8) --------------------**** *** la** l***denver ***** 9) 10) Temple ## notes. Use Monospace to keep format as per image. Capitals denote firm interpretation. Lowerspace are educated guesses, "*" denote unknown letter, "-" denote complete unknown or obscured. [End] Alternatively: >Here is Ronald Regehr, works with Bond Johnson, translations of the >message to date. 1)......................................................AS THE>> ?? 2)........ 4 HRS THE VICTIMS OF.THE.YOU FORWAREDED TO THE>> 3)......THE "DISK"?>...............................L......AT 0984 ACKNOWLEDGES>>.> 5)EMERGENCY POWERS ARE NEEDED SITE TWO S.W. MAGDALENA,>N.MEX 6)**D**SAFE TALK....FOR MEANING OF STORY AND >MISSION.>> 7)BALLOON STORY.SHOW "STUFF" OF WEATHER BALLOONS.SENT ON THE> 8)**** AND LAND l****VER CREWS.>> 9) BLANK 10) TEMPLE [End] The differences are indicative of the inherent difficulties. Based on my analysis, some of the contents from previously suggested translations would remain conceivably correct, however, other interpretations can not be. For example, "SITE TWO S.W. MAGDALENA, N.MEX", as above, obviously isn't sustainable. I would only be confident about "FORT WORTH, TEX." being visible at the end of line two, perhaps "POWERS" as being the third word in line four. The word suggested to be 'VICTIMS' could in fact be many other seven letter words, possibly 'REMAINS', as in, conceivably : ... *** THE REMAINS OF THE ***** YOU FORWARDED TO THE ... AT FORT WORTH, TEX. or, perhaps: ... *** THE REMAINS OF THE ***** YOU REQUESTED TO THE ... AT FORT WORTH, TEX. As the telegram has presumably been received by Ramey, it would make more sense if he was being informed about something he had requested, rather than forwarded. At that point, with the 'debris' having only been received, what would Ramey have been able to forward and for which receipt was being acknowledged? Incidentally, for those who maybe aren't aware, the scanned 'Ramey telegraph' image is available at: http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/new-1/rmysignl.htm I'm reasonably sure the template outlined is accurate. If disputed, the factual evidence would be welcome. Otherwise, it does require a rethink of the claims being publicised. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Times of Recent "Green-flare" Leonid Meteors From: Bob Soetebier - bikebob <bikebob@mo.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:15:37 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:39:40 -0500 Subject: Times of Recent "Green-flare" Leonid Meteors Just in case any of you might be keeping track of sightings of those (normally, relatively rare) recent, fast-moving, "green-flare" Leonids' meteors -- NOT to be confused with many reports slow-moving, "low-flying" green "fireballs"! -- here's the times, etc., for the three we saw: (1) Tues., Nov. 16, 1998 - 12:45am : While looking n.n.w.; at about 45-degree elevation, meteor streak -- with long-lasting, remnant smoke trail -- travelled westward from n.n.e. to n.n.w. --- This sighting occurred at Pilot Knob, in Iron County, (s.s.e.) Missouri, while upon the grounds of Fort Davidson State Park. (2) Tues., Nov. 16, 1998 - 2:18am : While looking n.w.; at about 30-degree elevation, meteor streak -- with long-lasting, remnant smoke trail -- travelled w.s.w. from north to west. --- This sighting occurred from the trailhead parking lot of the Mina Sauk/Ozark Trail atop Taum Sauk Mountain (over 1770 ft. altitude) State Park, in Reynolds County, (s.s.e.) Missouri. (Taum Sauk Mtn. is about a dozen miles s.w. of Pilot Knob, MO.) (3) Tues., Nov. 16, 1998 - 2:25am : While looking s.w.; at about a 40-degree elevation, meteor streak -- with long-lasting, remnant smoke trail -- travelled s.w. from n.e. to s.w. --- (Same location as #2 sighting, above.) The smoke trails from these (above) green-flare meteor sightings lasted from a minimum of 10 minutes, to a maximum to almost 20 minutes. There was a pretty good wind blowing all night. However, the smoke trails did not break apart during their remnant display, but rather eventually dissipated, after slowy contorting in shape from straight-line to curved/convoluted. These three were the only "green-flare" Leonid meteors (out of dozens of meteors we sighted that night at both of the above locations) that we happended to catch. A friend of mine -- who was camped out on the western flank of Taum Sauk Mtn. -- noted to me today that he also saw these same three "green-flare" meteors, along with at least three more. (He stayed awake until 4:30am to do so, though. Whereas, we "called it quits" before 3:30am.) Bob Soetebier St. Louis County, Missouri, USA Tailwinds to you... See you ON the road! /// BICYCLE BOB /// bikebob@mo.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 DISPATCH # 110 -- the weekly newsletter of From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:43:30 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:49:10 -0500 Subject: DISPATCH # 110 -- the weekly newsletter of S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 11/18/98 Quote of the Week "You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you." -- Eric Hoffer ----------------------- Rant of the Week: �Inverting the Paper of Society� Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, �Dino� warns us of a large asteroid that will strike the earth and also cause some kind of problems for paper, or gays, or abortionists. Or something. Enjoy. "I KNOW TWO ETs THAT FREQUENTLY VISITS ME SINCE 1959 AND he/she AFFIRMS THAT ONE GREAT ASTEROID will COLLIDE - IF IN THE DESERT OF THE UNITED STATES; INSIDE shortly. It will BE A FORM OF PUNISHMENT AGAINST THE PEOPLE OF THE EARTH THAT is INVERTING THE PAPER OF THE SOCIETY WITH SO MANY ABSURD AS: ABORTIONS, MARRIAGE OF Gays (EXCOMMUNICATED THEM OF GOD), ADDICTIONS OF every ORDER" ------ All rants are printed �as is,� with spelling and grammar goofs left uncorrected. Some rants may be edited for brevity or clarity, to the extent such a thing is possible. If you�ve got a rant you�d like to share, send it to pscplady@aol.com with �possible rant� in the subject line of your letter. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up This Week! Catch a number of great stories this week on the ParaScope web and AOL sites, including daily updates to our Conspiracy Newsline and Daily Dose features. Among the articles you'll want to check out: The Paper Trail: Where the Concealed is Revealed Another installment of the Paper Trail is on the way, bringing the latest declassification news to you. The new issue features once secret documents on several hidden chapters of the Cold War, including: U.S. involvement with drug-running contra rebels, the CIA's role in Honduras' dirty war, and the National Security Agency's eavesdropping on Cuban communications. Some of these reports will change history. Find out why in the Paper Trail. ---------------- The Jonestown Genocide: Twenty Years of Questions Twenty years ago this week, outspoken CIA critic Congressman Leo Ryan was murdered in Guyana while investigating the People's Temple. In this special report, Konformist editor Robert Sterling examines alleged links between the CIA, Jim Jones and the Jonestown massacre. ---------------- The Sony Psi-Station: Game Over for a Corporate ESP Project We're not sure what to make of this latest transmission from D. Trull, our intrepid Enigma editor. More disturbing still is that since we received it, we've been unable to contact him for further details. So far, this is as much as we know: >Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 9:58:19 PM >From: pscptrull@aol.com >Subj: The Sony Psi-Station >To: pscppol@aol.com >I am working on a short Enigma news story which I will be sending >to you in advance. It is on the Sony ESP labs, which have recently >been shut down, and the information that is trickling out on the >top secret stuff they did. Basically, Sony's line is this: we discovered >that ESP exists, but we shut down the program because we couldn't >figure out how to exploit ESP in profitable consumer electronic >goods. So it's a pretty interesting little story! There are quite a few >people who don't seem to want details on this getting out, so I'll >be interested to see how it's received by the readers. More to come >soon. ---------------- Martin Luther King Assassination Documents: HSCA-MLK Volume 1, Now Online Over the past three years, ParaScope has followed the King assassination case very closely. Although Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was murdered in Memphis more than thirty years ago, we are haunted to this day by unanswered questions about a possible conspiracy to kill the civil rights leader. As a service to the independent research community, ParaScope is in the process of putting online the entire House Select Committee on Assassinations report on the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr -- page by page, volume by volume. At this time, Volume 1 of the HSCA report is online in its entirety, including the transcript of a 1977 Dan Rather interview with James Earl Ray, Ray's statement to the HSCA, and other key pieces of evidence. You can also do a keyword search for specific topics. Review the documents for yourself at: http://www.parascope.com/mlk/documents/index.htm ---------------- Conspiracy Newsline Yes, they're out to get you -- and your little dog, too! Judge refuses to release voting results in Washington, D.C. medical marijuana initiative; man who says "aliens" made him kill two people will get a new trial; lots more news. ---------------- UFO Roundup The latest UFOlogy news and sighting reports from around the globe, courtesy of Joseph Trainor's UFO Roundup. Chinese jet fighter scrambled to intercept UFO; mysteries flourish in alleged EQ Pegasi extraterrestrial contact case; UFO flap continues in Montana; Portugese radio re-enactment "War of the Worlds" broadcast triggers panic; search for "chupacabra" in Baldim Cave ends in fiasco; lots more news. ...All this, and much, much more! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, to subscribe: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:33:22 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:51:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? Hello, list and all... I think I can clear up things regarding the mysterious "Phoenix Lights".... Now, don't quote me on this, but I have it on good authority (based on an anonymous source with connections close to someone that allegedly overheard cryptic information as it was being passed from one unnamed top level official to another) regarding classified reports which have come into my possession that, for reasons that I can't devulge, I am unfortunately unable to share with the list but which, none the less, prove everything that I am about to claim; such reports relate total disclosure regarding the Phoenix Lights including, but not limited to, their origin and connection with the military. As I'm sure you'll understand, I can't go into detail now. However, unidentified sources indicate that others that have heard of these reports were impressed enough, despite a lack of access to the actual documents, to suggest that there may be some information within vital enough to warrant the reading and/or study of this material should it ever be declassified. I, myself, haven't actually read these documents, but it is my understanding that everything in them has been verified through vigorous analysis by officials "high up" in the system. Such verification can be verified by cross indexing the original documents with the people that originally heard about them. They will attest to the fact that they are pretty sure the reports exist, according to a source which wishes to remain anonymous, and that the information contained within is, in fact, assumed to be there. I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel the release of this information pretty much blows the lid off everything regarding UFO's, government cover-ups, discplane technology, crop circles, Roswell as well as Dr. Reed and his tragic hand puppet with no shoulders. Trust me. I never lie and I'm always right.... Later,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: Three 'Bird-Colonels' & Holloman AFB From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:06:55 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:55:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Three 'Bird-Colonels' & Holloman AFB >From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto >>Remember, Bruce, one man's trash is another man's Treasure.... >'Speaking' of which' - Holloman came up again in my life this past >weekend. >During a phone conversation with James M. McCampbell, author of >Ufology: New Insights from Science and Common Sense' (Belmont, >Ca.: Jaymac Company, 1973) this past Saturday, November 14, Jim >dropped a new-one on me re. The Holloman 'Landing'. He almost >casually mentioned that three military "Bird-Colonels" - MDs >"left with the visitors."! On their return, one Colonel went >insane, one died and Jim didn't know what happend to the other. >I've scoured the archives here and couldn't find any reference >to the 'Bird Colonels' - does anyone have anything further to >Jim's story? >Below, for those who haven't any idea what I'm refering to are >a couple of files from the archives here... >ebk ><<<>> >Date: 05-10-94 (07:32) Number: 4615 of 4650 (Refer# NONE) > To: ALL >From: JOHN POWELL >Subj: UFO Meeting >Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE (Echo) >Conf: F-BAMA (955) Read Type: READING ALL (+) > * Originally By: Ken Bozeman > * Originally To: All > * Originally Re: UFO Meeting > * Original Area: NASA Discussion and Q&A Echo > * Forwarded by : Blue Wave v2.12 OS/2 > The Eclectic Viewpoint Newsletter > May 1994 > THE UFO LANDING AT HOLOMAN AFB > STRANGER THAN FICTION? >o Does the Government have Film Footage of a UFO Landing at > Holloman AFB >o Did Nonhuman Entities Exit the Disk and Communicate with the > Base Commander? >o What was so Different about the Appearance of these Aliens as > Compared to those We Hear about Today? >-!-------------------------------------------------------------- >May, 1971. Three disk-shaped craft appear over Holloman AFB in >the desert of New Mexico. One craft lands, three humanoid >occupants emerge and are greeted by scientists and military >representatives. They retire to a building where they meet for >several hours. All or most of the landing episode is captured >on several hundred feet of 16mm. movie film. >A few years later, the film production team of Alan Sandler and >Robert Emenegger (noted individually for their work with such >well known client as Bank of America, Armand Hammer, and Richard >Nixon) are contacted by high ranking Pentagon and Air Force >personnel. The Defense Department wants to improve its image >with a series of documentaries on space science break-throughs >in areas such as atomic fusion, 3-D moving holography, mind to >computer communication, and the amazing capabilities of animals >being trained for use in warfare. >It is suggested that a documentary to capitalize on the public's >fascination with UFOs is a possibility. A carrot is dangled in >the form a promise that the Holloman landing film can be used >for the project. Sandler and Emenegger decide to use it as the >stunning climax to a full length documentary portraying the >history of the UFO phenomenon. >In an unprecedented move, full cooperation is given by the Air >Force and Pentagon as well as past Blue Book officials, NASA, >and leading sociologists and psychologists. However, at the last >minute the promised use of the Holloman film is withdrawn. It is >suggested that the landing simulated while speculating that this >event might have happened in the past or could happen in the >future. >Despite being denied access to the actual Holloman film, the >documentary UFO's, Past, Present and Future is completed in 1974 >with Robert Emenegger writing the script as well as an >accompanying paperback book of the same title. Errol, I have this documentary on video tape: "UFO's, Past, Present and Future." It was a pretty fair program. The scene at the end does show a "reenactment of the alleged approach by three objects which appear to hover near the end of the runway, with one object approaching. However, I could not tell what that one object was. It may have been an F-4 Phantom for all I know. AS far at the "Bird Colones" go, I have no information on that. However, do have a catalogue number for the Holloman Film and where it is allegedly or should I say was allegedly stored at the time I received this address and catalogue number. I gave this information out to an investigator on this echo a year or two ago to be checked out by one of her sources, and to this day, I have not had confirmation nor denial of it. Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Proof Of Falseness Of Dore's Insinuations Re. Stig From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:34:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:00:09 -0500 Subject: Proof Of Falseness Of Dore's Insinuations Re. Stig Regarding Paul Dore's poorly researched insinuations, involving me in the SETI Hoax and forwarded to Art Bell's main page November 18 and the IUFO mailing list on November 19 - see http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/media/mailing/archive/iufo/msg00979.shtml I would like to emphasize that I was one of the very first to publicly denounce the SETI hoax. Cf. my newsgroup and mailing list messages on October 29, e.g. http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m29-009.shtml i.e. just two days after October 27, the day that I forwarded seticontact's first newsgroup message to various newsgroups and mailing lists - see http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m27-005.shtml Indeed, the very first day I issued a well-founded warning to the same fora that the signal might be earthly. Read the newsgroup message below or follow the links to the UFO Updates and IUFO mailing lists! I would very much like to thank J. Pharabod for the information, by the way. URLs: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m27-022.shtml http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/media/mailing/archive/iufo/msg00063.shtml ******* Fwd: 1450 Mhz Author: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Email: pharabod@in2p3.fr Date:1998/10/27 Forums: alt.alien.visitors Warning: it seems that 1450 Mhz is currently used in receivers of satellite TV and in CPU of some computers (search for "1450Mhz" and "1450 Mhz" on dejanews). J. Pharabod Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:54:06 +0100 (MET) From: pharabod@in2p3.fr To: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk Subject: 1450 Mhz ******* Concerning Dore's "Trial Run" and my being "the postee" for this "first attempt", both allegations are completely unfounded. The "trial run" was a real effort by the University of Indianapolis to identify "one or two interference bursts, probably from the south side of Indianapolis, that are received during the course of a day. We [radio astronomers at the university] know that the interference bursts, or pulses, are not of intellegent origin, as they do not originate in any particular areas of the sky. To be very certain that the origin of the interference was local, as opposed to noise from natural sources in the sky, we wanted some amateur radio astronomers to participate in looking at the same area of the sky. The "pulses" or bursts of interference have no connection with Cygnus A. We just happened to be on the declination (elevation) of Cygnus A. One remailer for a mail-list added the word "SETI" to our subject of "pulses" so that the subject of the message, as the remailer remailed it was "SETI pulses", not our original subject of "pulses". [This is a common procedure on the open SETI Email Discussion List, from which mccloud@listservice.net forwarded the message, Dore's "trial run".] A few non-radio astronomers apparently concluded that we have found signals from extra terrestrial intellegence. As the message itself made clear, we had observed interference . We are not doing a seti project and have not observed anything that could be signals from an alien culture." Quote from the page "RADIO ASTRONOMY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF INDIANAPOLIS", URL: http://radio.uindy.edu/radio/ I am wondering if Dore checked the page before spreading his insinuation. As anyone with a little knowledge of my Web activity will know, I am a devoted UFO newshound, which is the sole reason for my forwarding the message mentioned and some of seticontact's.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: (Skyopen) FW: URGENT Meteor Lands In OZ And From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:48:44 +1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:05:48 -0500 Subject: Re: (Skyopen) FW: URGENT Meteor Lands In OZ And The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw **************************************************** Diane Harrison tkbnetw@fan.net.au >From: Skywatch International <jhickman@itlnet.net> >To: sky open list <skyopen@unix.ltlb.com> >Subject: (Skyopen) FW: URGENT Meteor lands in OZ and for sale.. >Date: Wednesday, 18 November 1998 21:12 >-----Original Message----- >From: ippoz@eisa.net.au [mailto:ippoz@eisa.net.au] >Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 6:58 PM >To: Skywatch International >Subject: URGENT Meteor lands in OZ and for sale.. >Short message.. >We have received instructions from a gentlemen >called "Mr Johnathan" who said that he and his friends >watched the Leonid meteor event this morning 18/11/98. >He apparently sighted many meteorites together >with one that appeared landed somewhere. >Sometime later he found the following >FOR SALE >A jet black Meteor found in Australia on the 18/11/98 >its weight is 7 kilos and it is about hand size.. >The location of this find will be kept a secret >due to local considerations. >More info call.. >Ross Dowe >Phone Australian mobile phone 0416 305 889 for details.. >ippoz@eisa.net.au >*************************** >SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC. >(A Non-Profit Organization) Hi all How could this be, this post was sent to Skywatch on 17th. 11.1998 at 6.58pm which was when Mr Ross Dowe posted this to the list,if you look at the original post there seems to be two different days. Report sent in to Skywatch on the 17th.11.1998 6.58pm Meteor report sent to Ross by Mr Johnathan on the Morning of the 18.11.98. This dose not add up sorry Ross "Please Explain". News to us :>) But I have forward it to Claire at the Canberra Observatory for her comment, will keep you all informed. Ross could you please clarify the dates "please?????there seems to be a miss understanding somewhere. But for those how got the post I will try to clear it up for you all. So hold your Bus till there is more info :>)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Worldbook Encyclopedia on Jimmy Carter From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:45:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:10:11 -0500 Subject: Worldbook Encyclopedia on Jimmy Carter Jimmy Carter 39th President of the United States Source: World Book Encyclopedia, p. 188/188a, Vol. 3, 1997 Education: Jimmy went to public school in Plains. (Georgia) He shared his mother's love of reading and received good grades. A schoolmate later remembered that Jimmy "was always the smartest in the class." The boy's favorite subjects included history, literature, and music. As a teen-ager, he played on the high school basketball team. In 1941, following graduation from high school, Carter entered Georgia Southwestern College in nearby Americus. In 1942, a boyhood dream came true when he received an appointment to the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis, Md. "Even as a grammar school child, I read books about the Navy and Annapolis," Carter recalled. However, he lacked the mathematics courses required for admission to the academy and enrolled at Georgia Institute of Technology to fulfill this requirement. Carter entered the academy in 1943. He did especially well in electronics, gunnery, and naval tactics and graduated in 1946, ranking 59th in a class of 820. Naval Career: Carter spent his first two years in the Navy chiefly as an electronics instructor. He served first on the U.S.S. Wyoming and later on the U.S.S. Mississippi. These battleships were being used to test new equipment. Near the end of his period on the Mississippi, Carter volunteered for submarine duty. He graduated from submarine-training school in December 1948, making third in a class of 52. Carter was then assigned to the submarine U.S.S. Pomfret and, in 1950, to the U.S.S. K-1, a submarine designed for antisubmarine warfare. In 1952, Carter joined a select group of officers who were developing the world's first nuclear-powered submarines. He became engineering officer of the nuclear submarine Sea Wolf. Carter served under Captain Hyman G. Rickover, who pioneered the nuclear project. Carter later wrote that Rickover "had a profound effect on my life--perhaps more than anyone except my own parents . . . He expected the maximum from us, but he always contributed more."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: "Steven W. Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:42:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:13:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:31:54 -0000 >>Dennis raises a good point. How much credibility do we give to >>an anonymous source as proof of anything? This genre is >>littered with the tales of those who provide false and >>mis-leading (or mis-interpreted) information, which has in turn >>lead many researchers down paths that later turned out to be >>based on fuzzy logic and self-serving theories. > >>I don't think that this information should necessarily be >>ignored, but using unattributed statements as building blocks to >>develop a theory or position seems like a rather shaky >>foundation upon which to build. > >Who is developing a theory and what's this about building >blocks? Jeff merely put the account into general circulation. >It's called the free exchange of ideas and are we now arguing >for control of information before it is released? Are we saying >that the 2 million listeners to "Sightings" are incapable of >working things out for themselves. > >In that case, let's abandon democracy because people are too >stupid to think things out..... > >As to self-serving theories and shaky foundations how's about >the supposed evidence for "human-alien" contact that drives 99% >of Ufology? It serves publishers and documentary makers rather >well and provides the odd laugh for the millions of people who >have the misfortune to hear certain unmentionable advocates for >Ufology hammering yet another nail into its' shiny coffin... > >Tim X In going back to look at some of the earlier posts in this thread, my comment regarding "building blocks" was somewhat less than relevent to the discussion. I'm not sure my comment lent any credibility or support to the " "human-alien" contact that drives 99% of Ufology", and such was not my intent. Any theory will have to stand or fall on its own merits, and proving one to be inaccurate doesn't really lend any support to another. As far as SIGHTINGS is concerned, it is an informative entertainment program, and not a scientific forum. That doesn't mean that good research and science aren't discussed on the show, but its format is more entertainment than documentary/news. I would suspect that scientists would laugh at the concept of their sciences being defined by the rule of democracy, but in some sense that may be true. Keep up the research, Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:46:15 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:16:52 -0500 Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:10:07 -0400 >>Bruce, why not go ahead and tell the rest of the story, how our >>buddy, William "Bill" Moore, allegedly (according to his own >>confession at the 1989 MUFON International Convention) had >>Bennewitz railroaded into a "mental hospital" where he received >>"shock treatments" for his "alleged" mental aberations. >>Moore took a specific interest in Bennewitz and decided he was >>going to get to the bottom of his claims. >>Bennewitz not only had pictures, but he had motion picture >>movies which he had taken of these UFOs coming and going near >>the air base and in the hills in Albuquerque, NM. I guess I need >>to get my files on Bennewits out so I can quote from the >>directly, rather than from memory. >>Remember, Bruce, one man's trash is another man's Treasure.... >>REgards, Mike >Bill Moore did not railroad Bennewitz into a mental hospital. >Bennewitz did have mental health problems according to a >Psychologist I talked to before Moore got involved. >Let's not dump when the evidence is contrary as opposed to >repeated tales going way beyond what occurred. I was working >very closely with Moore and was present when he gave his >infamous talk in Las Vegas and chided him strongly about it >later. >STF Yes, Stan, I am aware you were working with Mr. Moore at that time. The only time I ever talked to Moore on the phone, you beeped in and he put me on hold for about five minutes or more and finally came back and said it was you on the other line. All of this attempt to reopen an old wound is probably ill-advised, however, Bennewitz apparently had quantum amounts of information to back up his claims, which was taken from him while he was hospitalized. We can persue this further if you like, Stan, but I was very much active in the BBS at that time, and if you remember correctly, I would call you from time to time to discuss different aspects of Ufology... You were still living in Indiana at the time I started calling you. Then you moved to your present location. REgards, Mike ICQ#:7508455.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: UFO Information/History For A 7th Grade From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:33:37 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:22:01 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Information/History For A 7th Grade Dear Errol and List members, I would like to thank all those that responded to my request for assistance for Sarah. She sent this message of thanks a few days ago: To: jhayes@cableinet.co.uk Subject: Re: UFO information / history for a 7th grade science report. From: paulmicka@t-online.de (Paul Micka) Hi it's Sarah . <snip> Thank you for forwarding my address I have gotten many replies and have looked up some of your adresses as well as those sent to me from others. They have been most interesting. I have narrowed my theme down to stories surrounding Roswell.Thanks for your quick answer and sorry that my email is so late. All the Best. Yours, Sarah Meyer ----------------- Thanks again, John Hayes jhayes@cableinet.co.uk webmaster@ufoinfo.com UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/ UFOICQ Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:- http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Leonids Shower A Sprinkle - Some UFO Reports From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:43:11 +1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:29:09 -0500 Subject: Leonids Shower A Sprinkle - Some UFO Reports Keith Basterfield Network Australasia tkbnetw@fan.net.au ******************************************* Hi Everyone The leonids Meteor Shower was a sprinkle wasn't it hum, But I think the best meteor was at 1.15am it came in low from the east and then went west and left a trail across the sky from east to west which stayed for around 40 seconds it was at cloud level what a sight WOW Glennys Mackay can confirm this. glenmack@thehub.com.au We saw around 30 meteors per hour coming from all direction Skywatch Location the Jimboomba Turf Farm great views of the night sky no light pollution. Okay guys there has been some flack about seeing UFO's when the Meteor shower was on so we had to be careful about Reports. But - Our local Radio Station 'B105' had a few calls about a UFO being sighted, Jamie Dun made a few comments about it Ha! a sendup of course :>) but never the less a caller called it in. Now for the Sighting Reports Report 1. George Mackay glenmack@thehub.com.au Location: Jimboomba: Time 3.20am 18th.11.98 Swears he saw a UFO going from left to right then go straight up, well I think he might be right Time was around 3.20am. Report 2: Peter Astronomer Location: Stafford Time 3.20am 18th.11.98 Astronomer Peter said he saw a bright light going from left to right, then go straight up time 3.20am - the same time as George Mackay. Now did anyone els see anything?? . Position was to the North West corner of Orion's Belt * N * * W # - Object * S Report 3. Nemesis nemesis@fastinternet.net.au Location: Far North QLD: Time around 4.00am 18th.11.98 Well,some interesting bits. Saw an aircraft to the N after about 4 am. Soon after sudden bright flash to the N, then it flashed three or more times less brightly, and a minute or so later below horizon a flareup. Not the plane, which I saw way off to the S soon after. Not a meteor, Did a satellite get hit? Or knocked spinning? Lawrie__________Williams Report 4. sent in by Silvana masgfras@one.net.au Location: Mt Nebo Time 3.20am 18th.11.98 Hello everybody I have a friend who went to see the meteor shower at Mt Nebo and he believes he saw a UFO at around 3.20 am noth west as well, it did a zig zag and shot straight up, he believes he had an experience when he was 3yrs old and the ufo looked similar as the one he saw on 17. 11. 98. His girlfriend and a friend saw it too. See you later Marcos. Did anyone els see a UFO that morning: 3.20am 18th.11.98 Regards Diane Harrison
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 ELFIS ISSUE 7 - 3 From: Stephen MILES Lewis <elfis@ccsi.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:40:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:30:56 -0500 Subject: ELFIS ISSUE 7 - 3 Subscribe to ELFIS LIST here: http://www.listbot.com/subscribe/moistfist ELFIS ISSUE 7 - 3rd Installment Introduction Hello out there, Welcome again to some stuff to distract you. But seriously folks . . . What does ANY of this stuff have to do with UFOs? Possible Paradigms! Try one on and see if any fit. - T A B L E of C O N T E N T S - MAIN ELFIS ISSUE SEVEN page: http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin/ELFOL7/A7.htm Check out the latest and greatest links from my web trauling runs thru the deep... NEWS & NOTES: (Towards Solving the UFO Problem & Related Phenomena) http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin/newsnotes.htm ARTICLES: Thom Laaki introduces us to the practical paganism perspectives of Crowley,Berges,&Eco http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin/ELFOL7/e7prctclpagnTL1.htm I finally archive my 1995 SAC paper: Encounters with the Fantastic-The Transformative UFO Paradigm http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin/ELFOL7/ufosac.htm And outline my upcoming writings on: UFOs as Hermeneutic Messengers of Gaia- Ecology of the OverMind http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin/UFOU/ecoufo.htm =7FThe ever brave Mr. Baggins continues his inter- personal explorations. Wink wink nudge nudge. MR. BAGGINS' CORNER: http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin/ELFOL0/mrbagginscorner/mrbbcrnr.htm http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin/ELFOL7/e7bbeheab4.htm http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin/ELFOL7/e7psikick3.htm http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin/ELFOL7/e7psikick4a.htm http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin/ELFOL7/e7psikick4b.htm "What's that in yer kid's Cracker Jack's?!" CARGO CULTURE: http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin/ELFOL7/e7psydeltat.htm Ira Einhorn & The X-Files MKC MIND KONTROL CORNER: http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin/ELFOL7/e7mkcIE.htm ENJOY! More soon. SMiles -- Stephen MILES Lewis Writer, Designer, Producer, Editor & INFORMATIONALIST E.L.F. INFESTED SPACES - Journal of Possible Paradigms mailto:elfis@ccsi.com ELFIS OnLine : http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin ELFIS Archive : http://www.sdgweb.com/~elfin/ELFOL0/ELFOLARC.html ELFIS Links :
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:17:48 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:34:31 -0500 Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:10:07 -0400 >>Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:31:09 -0600 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:51:28 -0500 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>>Subject: UFO UpDate: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>><snip> >>>(who needs this stuff, anyway?) >>>GLARG/ retch!!!! >>>Shades of KRLL! >>>For the "newbies" to whom rumors of an underground war at >>>Archeluta Mesa near Dulce, NM may come as somewhat of a >>>surprise, even shock. I woul like to point out that about 10 >>>years ago a reputable UFO investigator, Dr. James McCampbell, >>>decided to take Dr. Bennewitz seriously. Bennewitz and an >>>abductee were the sources of the Dulce story which goes back to >>>the late 70's, early 80's. Bennewitz was a guy with mental >>>problems of his own.... and here he was working with a potential >>>abductee. Oh, well, that was back when abduction was"young" >>>and we had lots to learn. >>>Be that as it may, Bennewitz provided "accurate" drawings based >>>on aerial photos he had taken while flying over the Mesa in a >>>hired helicopter. Bennewitz indicated on the diagram the >>>crashed saucers and laser weapons and secret entrances, etc. >>>All very precise. >>>Only one problem. None of it was true. Checks of the Mesa by >>>several investigators following McCampbell confirmed >>>McCampbell's conclusion: all these alien artifacts and leftovers >>>of a "war" were figments of Bennewitz's imagination or reading >>>to much into th dark and light shaded areas in aerial photos. >>>The bottom line I was told by several people I would trust is >>>that there is nothing, rien, nada..... at the Archeluta Mesa >>>(there is a ranch there, howver) that would confirm Bennewitz' >>>story of an underground base with vats of human body parts, etc, >>>My response to bringing up all this garbage again is.... >>>Klaatu, where are you when we need you? >>>(Gort, put down that disintegrator!). >>Bruce, why not go ahead and tell the rest of the story, how our >>buddy, William "Bill" Moore, allegedly (according to his own >>confession at the 1989 MUFON International Convention) had >>Bennewitz railroaded into a "mental hospital" where he received >>"shock treatments" for his "alleged" mental aberations. >>Moore took a specific interest in Bennewitz and decided he was >>going to get to the bottom of his claims. >>Bennewitz not only had pictures, but he had motion picture >>movies which he had taken of these UFOs coming and going near >>the air base and in the hills in Albuquerque, NM. I guess I need >>to get my files on Bennewits out so I can quote from the >>directly, rather than from memory. >>Remember, Bruce, one man's trash is another man's Treasure.... >>REgards, Mike >Bill Moore did not railroad Bennewitz into a mental hospital. >Bennewitz did have mental health problems according to a >Psychologist I talked to before Moore got involved. >Let's not dump when the evidence is contrary as opposed to >repeated tales going way beyond what occurred. I was working >very closely with Moore and was present when he gave his >infamous talk in Las Vegas and chided him strongly about it >later. I've had trouble coming up with more than the vaguest timing on certain crucial events. According to Blum, AFOSI began their disinfo campaign against Bennewitz sometime in 1980, while Moore began meeting with Bennewitz sometime in 1981. Peebles says Bennewitz began his investigation of Hansen in August 1979, but Clark and others say she wasn't abducted until May 5, 1980. Both Clark and Cannon say Bennewitz became paranoid shortly after this, so it's hard to say whether this correlates better with Bennewitz's involvement with Hansen or with AFOSI. (Stan is, of course, correct on his point.) It's also my impression that, not only the timing, but the degree of Bennewitz's involvement is sometimes exaggerated. First, I don't know of any evidence of his participation other than his confession. Second, he only confessed to monitoring AFOSI's progress and reporting back to them. His story is that AFOSI drove Bennewitz over the edge, albiet with Moore's more passive cooperation. I haven't seen evidence that Moore himself passed any disinformation to Bennewitz. Kind regards,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Real Men Choose C! From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:38:03 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:02:11 -0500 Subject: Real Men Choose C! Alien beings from a highly advanced society visit the earth. You are the first human they have encountered and as a token of inter-galactic friendship they present you with a small but incredibly sophisticated device that is capable of curing all diseases, provide an infinite supply of clean energy, wipe out hunger, and permanently eliminate oppression and violence. What would you do with it? A. Present it to the Prime Minister B. Present it to the Secretary General of the United Nations. C. Take it apart to what makes it tick. --- In an infinite universe inifinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:14:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:07:59 -0500 Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:17:48 -0800 <snip> >I've had trouble coming up with more than the vaguest timing on >certain crucial events. According to Blum, AFOSI began their >disinfo campaign against Bennewitz sometime in 1980, while Moore >began meeting with Bennewitz sometime in 1981. >Peebles says Bennewitz began his investigation of Hansen in >August 1979, but Clark and others say she wasn't abducted until >May 5, 1980. Both Clark and Cannon say Bennewitz became >paranoid shortly after this, so it's hard to say whether this >correlates better with Bennewitz's involvement with Hansen or >with AFOSI. (Stan is, of course, correct on his point.) >It's also my impression that, not only the timing, but the >degree of Bennewitz's involvement is sometimes exaggerated. >First, I don't know of any evidence of his participation other >than his confession. Second, he only confessed to monitoring >AFOSI's progress and reporting back to them. His story is that >AFOSI drove Bennewitz over the edge, albiet with Moore's more >passive cooperation. I haven't seen evidence that Moore himself >passed any disinformation to Bennewitz. >Kind regards, >Keith Information on Bennewitz can be found at: http://www.ufomind.com/people/b/bennewitz/ which in turn links to several sites that have information on the incident being discussed. This information is certainly biased to some degree, but there may be dates, names, and locations of interest.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Jeff Rense <eotl@west.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:55:06 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:14:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:33:22 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >Hello, list and all... >I think I can clear up things regarding the mysterious "Phoenix >Lights".... >Now, don't quote me on this, but I have it on good authority >(based on an anonymous source with connections close to someone >that allegedly overheard cryptic information as it was being >passed from one unnamed top level official to another) regarding >classified reports which have come into my possession that, for >reasons that I can't devulge, I am unfortunately unable to share >with the list but which, none the less, prove everything that I >am about to claim; such reports relate total disclosure >regarding the Phoenix Lights including, but not limited to, >their origin and connection with the military. >As I'm sure you'll understand, I can't go into detail now. >However, unidentified sources indicate that others that have >heard of these reports were impressed enough, despite a lack of >access to the actual documents, to suggest that there may be >some information within vital enough to warrant the reading >and/or study of this material should it ever be declassified. >I, myself, haven't actually read these documents, but it is my >understanding that everything in them has been verified through >vigorous analysis by officials "high up" in the system. Such >verification can be verified by cross indexing the original >documents with the people that originally heard about them. They >will attest to the fact that they are pretty sure the reports >exist, according to a source which wishes to remain anonymous, >and that the information contained within is, in fact, assumed >to be there. >I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel the release of >this information pretty much blows the lid off everything >regarding UFO's, government cover-ups, discplane technology, >crop circles, Roswell as well as Dr. Reed and his tragic hand >puppet with no shoulders. >Trust me. I never lie and I'm always right.... >Later, >Roger Evans I posted the original short note with the intent to alert researchers that some possibly important new Phoenix information had surfaced via one of my listeners named Mike. I also quoted Peter Davenport's statement (made on my and other programs) about the F-16 pilots. I then added Tim Matthews' email as a further point of information. It turns out that Mike has been a serious independent UFO researcher for 20 years and it was my expectation that someone would want to follow up on his interesting Phoenix input. Not a chance. That ufology has long foundered in a sea of 'anonymity' and unattributed stories is legendary. However, one would think there would still be some hardy researchers somewhere who haven't yet been thoroughly neutralized by cynicism and who still like to explore new information trails...with protected sources or otherwise. Even today's new UFO reports from Scotland published by Errol have 'name witheld' in several places. Meanwhile, Mike is still standing by. I have his email and phone number if there is still anyone seriously interested in looking into the Phoenix issue. At the moment, that does not seem to be the case.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:00:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:20:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:33:22 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >Hello, list and all... >I think I can clear up things regarding the mysterious "Phoenix >Lights".... >Now, don't quote me on this, but I have it on good authority >(based on an anonymous source with connections close to someone >that allegedly overheard cryptic information as it was being >passed from one unnamed top level official to another) regarding >classified reports which have come into my possession that, for >reasons that I can't devulge, I am unfortunately unable to share >with the list but which, none the less, prove everything that I >am about to claim; such reports relate total disclosure >regarding the Phoenix Lights including, but not limited to, >their origin and connection with the military. >As I'm sure you'll understand, I can't go into detail now. >However, unidentified sources indicate that others that have >heard of these reports were impressed enough, despite a lack of >access to the actual documents, to suggest that there may be >some information within vital enough to warrant the reading >and/or study of this material should it ever be declassified. >I, myself, haven't actually read these documents, but it is my >understanding that everything in them has been verified through >vigorous analysis by officials "high up" in the system. Such >verification can be verified by cross indexing the original >documents with the people that originally heard about them. They >will attest to the fact that they are pretty sure the reports >exist, according to a source which wishes to remain anonymous, >and that the information contained within is, in fact, assumed >to be there. >I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel the release of >this information pretty much blows the lid off everything >regarding UFOs, government cover-ups, discplane technology, >crop circles, Roswell as well as Dr. Reed and his tragic hand >puppet with no shoulders. >Trust me. I never lie and I'm always right.... >Later, >Roger Evans Roger, What's new here? You supposedly have information that you can't talk about, can't discuss on the list, haven't read, don't want to be quoted on, from an anonymous source, with connections close to someone that allegedly overheard,regarding classified reports which have come into my possession that, for reasons that I can't devulge, I am unfortunately unable to share with the list but which, none the less, prove everything that I am about to claim. Just what is it that you have proved here, if you don't mind me asking. And of course the last part of your letter the ( Trust me. I never lie and I'm always right....) really makes me wonder about your post. And one other question if you would just what
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:52:48 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:58:09 -0500 Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: 19 November 1998 07:39 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:10:07 -0400 >>Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:31:09 -0600 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:51:28 -0500 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>>Subject: UFO UpDate: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>><snip> >>>(who needs this stuff, anyway?) >>>GLARG/ retch!!!! >>>Shades of KRLL! >>>For the "newbies" to whom rumors of an underground war at >>>Archeluta Mesa near Dulce, NM may come as somewhat of a >>>surprise, even shock. I woul like to point out that about 10 >>>years ago a reputable UFO investigator, Dr. James McCampbell, >>>decided to take Dr. Bennewitz seriously. Bennewitz and an >>>abductee were the sources of the Dulce story which goes back to >>>the late 70's, early 80's. Bennewitz was a guy with mental >>>problems of his own.... and here he was working with a potential >>>abductee. Oh, well, that was back when abduction was"young" >>>and we had lots to learn. >>>Be that as it may, Bennewitz provided "accurate" drawings based >>>on aerial photos he had taken while flying over the Mesa in a >>>hired helicopter. Bennewitz indicated on the diagram the >>>crashed saucers and laser weapons and secret entrances, etc. >>>All very precise. >>>Only one problem. None of it was true. Checks of the Mesa by >>>several investigators following McCampbell confirmed >>>McCampbell's conclusion: all these alien artifacts and leftovers >>>of a "war" were figments of Bennewitz's imagination or reading >>>to much into th dark and light shaded areas in aerial photos. >>>The bottom line I was told by several people I would trust is >>>that there is nothing, rien, nada..... at the Archeluta Mesa >>>(there is a ranch there, howver) that would confirm Bennewitz' >>>story of an underground base with vats of human body parts, etc, >>>My response to bringing up all this garbage again is.... >>>Klaatu, where are you when we need you? >>>(Gort, put down that disintegrator!). >>Bruce, why not go ahead and tell the rest of the story, how our >>buddy, William "Bill" Moore, allegedly (according to his own >>confession at the 1989 MUFON International Convention) had >>Bennewitz railroaded into a "mental hospital" where he received >>"shock treatments" for his "alleged" mental aberations. >>Moore took a specific interest in Bennewitz and decided he was >>going to get to the bottom of his claims. >>Bennewitz not only had pictures, but he had motion picture >>movies which he had taken of these UFOs coming and going near >>the air base and in the hills in Albuquerque, NM. I guess I need >>to get my files on Bennewits out so I can quote from the >>directly, rather than from memory. >>Remember, Bruce, one man's trash is another man's Treasure.... >>REgards, Mike >Bill Moore did not railroad Bennewitz into a mental hospital. >Bennewitz did have mental health problems according to a >Psychologist I talked to before Moore got involved. It seems to me that the whole thing involving Doty set up a host of myths and disinformation which formed the basis of much current Ufology; the idea in hidden underground bases, abductions and breeding programmes, the big secret (MJ-12) and more. Doty, it would seem, was involved in the propagation of said myths - so faithfully put out by better-known figures within Ufology. But of course he was, like so many others, expendable and now he's working as a cop in New Mexico (last time I heard)....... We are still suffering the consequences and these include people like Stantons' refusal to debate the issue of flying discs and their terrestrial origins. It would seem that the alien myth must be continued at all costs. As the Jack Pickett and Debra Carlson testimonies indicate, the Pentagon was more than happy with the propagation of the ET-human contact and disc from outer space lies...... >Let's not dump when the evidence is contrary as opposed to >repeated tales going way beyond what occurred. I was working >very closely with Moore and was present when he gave his >infamous talk in Las Vegas and chided him strongly about it >later. Given that Moore has been so closely associated with MJ-12 how come Stanton is still supporting the myth? I note with caution that some "new" (faked most likely) MJ-12 docs have miraculously appeared. It obviously takes time to put together these hoaxes but given that there are numerous researchers willing to believe such nonsense - and that there is big money to be made from the alien myth - then I suppose the hoaxers think it's worth it. And even if ET lands tomorrow in my back garden it won't change my view on Doty, MJ-12 and Bennewitz (the poor bastard). The only difference between Branton and the creators of MJ-12 is that the MJ-12ers paid more attention to detail and played a longer game...... Tim X
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:34:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:03:03 -0500 Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:46:15 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:10:07 -0400 >>>Bruce, why not go ahead and tell the rest of the story, how our >>>buddy, William "Bill" Moore, allegedly (according to his own >>>confession at the 1989 MUFON International Convention) had >>>Bennewitz railroaded into a "mental hospital" where he received >>>"shock treatments" for his "alleged" mental aberations. >>>Moore took a specific interest in Bennewitz and decided he was >>>going to get to the bottom of his claims. >>>Bennewitz not only had pictures, but he had motion picture >>>movies which he had taken of these UFOs coming and going near >>>the air base and in the hills in Albuquerque, NM. I guess I need >>>to get my files on Bennewits out so I can quote from the >>>directly, rather than from memory. >>>Remember, Bruce, one man's trash is another man's Treasure.... >>>REgards, Mike >>Bill Moore did not railroad Bennewitz into a mental hospital. >>Bennewitz did have mental health problems according to a >>Psychologist I talked to before Moore got involved. >>Let's not dump when the evidence is contrary as opposed to >>repeated tales going way beyond what occurred. I was working >>very closely with Moore and was present when he gave his >>infamous talk in Las Vegas and chided him strongly about it >>later. >>STF >Yes, Stan, I am aware you were working with Mr. Moore at that >time. >The only time I ever talked to Moore on the phone, you beeped in >and he put me on hold for about five minutes or more and finally >came back and said it was you on the other line. >All of this attempt to reopen an old wound is probably >ill-advised, however, Bennewitz apparently had quantum amounts >of information to back up his claims, which was taken from him >while he was hospitalized. >We can persue this further if you like, Stan, but I was very >much active in the BBS at that time, and if you remember >correctly, I would call you from time to time to discuss >different aspects of Ufology... You were still living in Indiana >at the time I started calling you. Then you moved to your >present location. >REgards, Mike >ICQ#:7508455. >(502) 683-6811 Something is wrong here. Case of mistaken identity? I lived in Indianapolis,Indiana, from l963-1966 and in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, from l966-1969. I moved to So. California in 1969 and to Northern California in l975 and then moved here to New Brunswick, Canada in l980. I had met Bill Moore briefly in Pittsburgh in the late 1960s and then again in Morris, Minnesota, in the late l970s. What is BBS? Stan Friedman puzzled in Fredericton.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:53:04 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:08:24 -0500 Subject: Re: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? >Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:22:44 -0500 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Regarding... >>From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:03:46 EST >>Subject: RPIT Roswell Revisitation: The Next Step? >James wrote: >>Further, RPIT has been able to read in part the official message held >>in the hand of General Ramey in the four shots taken of him which >>make reference to "victims of the crashed DISK being transported to >>Fort Worth" from "Site Two" near Magdalena, N. Mexico, and further >>appears to suggest or order the general to issue an announcement as >>to a "weather balloon" cover-up. >James, >The 'Ramey telegram' may be indecipherable, however, as the printing >consists of fixed spacing, this offers important clues to the >probabilities. <snip> >Unfortunately, the available scan still leaves much of the >message illegible and there are many letters which can only be >guessed at. We can however determine the length of most visible >words and that proves what isn't possible. >Neil Morris' interpretation of the message was: Dear All, This has been recently updated (again) @ http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/new-1/rmysignl.htm <snip> >Incidentally, for those who maybe aren't aware, the scanned >'Ramey telegraph' image is available at: >http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/new-1/rmysignl.htm I should make it clear at this point that the image available for download from my site is _not_ the full working image though this image is of a resolution able to indicate the main features visible in the "paper" it is still a long download at 887k!, the reason for the size/resolution reduction. My main working images of the paper are actually aprox 2.5 megabytes each, being the raw 2400dpi scans from my own 11x14 prints, at this resolution the photographic "grain" is easily visible and thats just about the limit of visibility in the photos. If anyone wishes to spend the time and effort to download one of these images I would be willing to make one available on my site, please contact me directly and if the response is there I will put one up. But remember it will be a 2.5meg download, that's a looonggg time on a slow dialup service. >I'm reasonably sure the template outlined is accurate. >If disputed, the factual evidence would be welcome. >Otherwise, it does require a rethink of the claims being >publicised. >James. >E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com Best Regards Neil.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 19 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:46:33 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:12:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >From: Jeff Rense <eotl@west.net> >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:55:06 -0800 (PST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >>From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:33:22 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >>Hello, list and all... >>I think I can clear up things regarding the mysterious "Phoenix >>Lights".... >>Now, don't quote me on this, but I have it on good authority >>(based on an anonymous source with connections close to someone >>that allegedly overheard cryptic information as it was being >>passed from one unnamed top level official to another) regarding >>classified reports which have come into my possession that, for >>reasons that I can't devulge, I am unfortunately unable to share >>with the list but which, none the less, prove everything that I >>am about to claim; such reports relate total disclosure >>regarding the Phoenix Lights including, but not limited to, >>their origin and connection with the military. >>As I'm sure you'll understand, I can't go into detail now. >>However, unidentified sources indicate that others that have >>heard of these reports were impressed enough, despite a lack of >>access to the actual documents, to suggest that there may be >>some information within vital enough to warrant the reading >>and/or study of this material should it ever be declassified. >>I, myself, haven't actually read these documents, but it is my >>understanding that everything in them has been verified through >>vigorous analysis by officials "high up" in the system. Such >>verification can be verified by cross indexing the original >>documents with the people that originally heard about them. They >>will attest to the fact that they are pretty sure the reports >>exist, according to a source which wishes to remain anonymous, >>and that the information contained within is, in fact, assumed >>to be there. >>I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel the release of >>this information pretty much blows the lid off everything >>regarding UFO's, government cover-ups, discplane technology, >>crop circles, Roswell as well as Dr. Reed and his tragic hand >>puppet with no shoulders. >>Trust me. I never lie and I'm always right.... >>Later, >>Roger Evans >I posted the original short note with the intent to alert >researchers that some possibly important new Phoenix information >had surfaced via one of my listeners named Mike. >I also quoted Peter Davenport's statement (made on my and other >programs) about the F-16 pilots. >I then added Tim Matthews' email as a further point of >information. > >It turns out that Mike has been a serious independent UFO >researcher for 20 years and it was my expectation that someone >would want to follow up on his interesting Phoenix input. >Not a chance. >That ufology has long foundered in a sea of 'anonymity' and >unattributed stories is legendary. However, one would think >there would still be some hardy researchers somewhere who >haven't yet been thoroughly neutralized by cynicism and who >still like to explore new information trails...with protected >sources or otherwise. >Even today's new UFO reports from Scotland published by Errol >have 'name witheld' in several places. >Meanwhile, Mike is still standing by. I have his email and >phone number if there is still anyone seriously interested in >looking into the Phoenix issue. At the moment, that does not >seem to be the case. =============================================>> Dear Jeff and List: It's been hard for me to be serious with a week-long headache. Then the 72 hour subterranean homesick flu struck. And here I sit, with nothing amusing to write except words describing body fluids... EBK thought I was kidding when I "urp-ed" in an email. It's awlright Errol, I'm only bleedin'. (Sorry Mr Dylan). Having described the state of my ascending, descending and whatever the hell you call the part that goes straight across, colons, allow me to throw in my two cents... RENSE FOR PRESIDENT! Thank you. Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go potty.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:14:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:34:48 -0500 Subject: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th Whilst browsing through correspondence on the rec.radio.shortwave newsgroup, normally a safe haven, I was somewhat shaken to see the following: [unedited] Subject: For release: Will Cooper "show us the Majesty?" Date: 16 Nov 1998 13:20:27 GMT From: uplink679@aol.com For Immediate Release Another large 'boom' is going to be heard 54 years later on December 7th, but this time it will be in the Northeastern corner of Arizona. William Cooper, a decorated veteran of the Vietnam Conflict, has hosted a self financed short-wave radio show called "The Hour Of The Time" since 1992. Over the years, Mr. Cooper has gathered a following of people, mostly patriots, many young and ambitious, who answer to his beckon call about the "New World Order" spectre. Recently, after his failed prediction that the Stock Market would dip 2,500 points by October 24th (the Dow is still higher than it was in January), overall interest in his message has waned. Despite the fact that many cannot hear Mr. Cooper's show due to poor selection of program carriers, he trudges onward in hopes that he can convert yet another of the "sheople". On December 7th, 1998, two very well known media personalities, one in television and the other with a syndicated radio program (Hint: It's not Art Bell of UFO fame), will simultaneously run a story about Mr. Cooper, and then make an open offer to him to release any or all of the supposedly top secret document called "Majesty Twelve", in print, to any media outlet of his choice, before the end of the year. Majesty Twelve is the core of Mr. Cooper's entire message. In it, he claims, lies the plan to create a "one world, totalitarian, socialist goverenment". Mr. Cooper claims to have privied access to this document while sustaining a compartmentalized clearance in the US Navy. The names of the personalities are held for the moment to reduce a premature media blitz from Mr. Cooper and his group. "We have to do this..Must do it," said one of the media personalities. "Bill has shoveled forward truckloads of supposed "proof" about this "conspiracy" but has yet to publish the actual document that got him started in the first place. We ran an FOIA query using the words "majesty" and "twelve". No blood drained from anybody's face. What we did find, we will air on the program (on Dec.7th). It will be amusing at best. Stay tuned." "The term 'sheople' or 'sheep' when referring to the general populace is nothing new. Many Vietnam vets view the world this way, as a result of their bad treatment upon returning home from an unpopular war. Mr. Cooper is no exception to this feeling of bitterness towards the world. I for one can empathize with that feeling because I felt the same way after rotating home in 75." "It's no secret that the world's most powerful people are engaged in a Luciferian religion. Take a tour of the george Eastman house in Upstate New York, for example. You will see goat foot ash trays everywhere. Pyramidal buildings are being erected all over the place. Why? I'll tell you...The real reason is that the human mind is not designed to handle excessive amounts of power and money. Take the humility away and you take belief on God away. The feeling prevades that "I did this all myself...Where was God the whole time?" These CEO's, bankers, traders, an intellectuals become easy prey for the mystical cults of Luciferianism and it's inert doctrines, where "they" become "God" in and of their own right. The word for this phenomenon is "apotheosis". The Luciferian cult, I can assure you, is in fact widespread, even to the churches." The prediction is that William Cooper will not publish his "Majesty Twelve" document because there is mostl likely no such document in existence. Once asked in front of the world to "show us the Majesty!", he will either have to produce it or be exposed as a massive phony carnival barker. On December 7th, William Cooper will become a houshold name. [End] Curious that December 7th is the day of reckoning here. Richard Hoagland appeared earlier this month on the aforementioned Art Bell radio show. Discussing the recently claimed 'extraterrestrial' signals detected by an amateur astronomer, a story now accepted to be a hoax, it's reported that Hoagland stated the 'signals' are in fact from a distant alien spaceship, speeding towards Earth. Said craft will, allegedly, land north of Phoenix, some time around December 7th. Conceivably "north of Phoenix" could be the "Northeastern corner of Arizona". Is there possibly a connection between the two stories? Other than they're both .... Hopefully it's not a 'diary clash". I'm still looking to buy a suitable Christmas present for my Mother- in-Law and if anyone could confirm a supplier of those goat-foot ashtrays...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:42:02 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:22:27 -0500 Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:34:41 -0400 >>Yes, Stan, I am aware you were working with Mr. Moore at that >>time. >>The only time I ever talked to Moore on the phone, you beeped in >>and he put me on hold for about five minutes or more and finally >>came back and said it was you on the other line. >>All of this attempt to reopen an old wound is probably >>ill-advised, however, Bennewitz apparently had quantum amounts >>of information to back up his claims, which was taken from him >>while he was hospitalized. >>We can persue this further if you like, Stan, but I was very >>much active in the BBS at that time, and if you remember >>correctly, I would call you from time to time to discuss >>different aspects of Ufology... You were still living in Indiana >>at the time I started calling you. Then you moved to your >present location. >Something is wrong here. Case of mistaken identity? >I lived in Indianapolis,Indiana, from l963-1966 and in >Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, from l966-1969. I moved to So. >California in 1969 and to Northern California in l975 and then >moved here to New Brunswick, Canada in l980. >I had met Bill Moore briefly in Pittsburgh in the late 1960s and >then again in Morris, Minnesota, in the late l970s. >What is BBS? >Stan Friedman puzzled in Fredericton. Ok, Stan, you are correct. I didn't start calling you until after you had moved to New Brunswick... You came to Owensboro, Ky, in the mid-to-late sixties and gave a lecture at Ky Wesleyan College. You were living in Indianapolis or Pittsburg at that time. That is where I got that... Ralph Dorris, Engineer at GE; Jack Murphree, DJ at WOMI AM Radio Station; and I attended your lecture and afterward, the three of us went to the DownTown Resturant/Hotel for coffee and discussion for about an hour or so... I don't know if you remember this or not. Then I called you several times during the 80's to discuss things that were happening in ufology. In Pensacola, in 1990, I took a series of photos of you and Phil Klass disagreeing over some point and Phil was offering $20 if you could prove him wrong...do you remember that? <g> We can get back to the other discussion once we get this straightened out. <g> REgards, Mike ICQ#:7508455.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, 'Landing' Event? From: Bob Soetebier - bikebob <bikebob@mo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:30:57 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:38:47 -0500 Subject: Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, 'Landing' Event? Regarding the purported Dec. 7, 1998, "landing" event being predicted by Richard Hoagland (and which, apparently, has sent Peter Gersten into a Sedona-induced, 'New-Age' "paradigm" tizzy.): When Hoagland was on Art Bell early last week, he and Art Bell joked that they both knew the name of the (purported) location "north of Phoenix" where the Dec. 7 "landing" event was suppossed to take place. Art Bell essentially commented that "someone" at least had a sense of humor since the name (of the location) had "galactic" significance. (However, neither of them divulged the name of the location.) Now, if you look at a map of Arizona, approximately 50 miles n.w. of Phoenix, AZ, you will find Constellation, AZ. Constellation is in the hills (Wickenburg Mtns.) about a dozen miles n.e. of Wickenburg, AZ. (According to my 1994 Gousha Road Atlas, that's 12 miles of "unimproved" road.) BTW, Art Bell did ask Hoagland if he was sure of all of this; that is, if Hoagland's "inside sources" were correct about the "landing" event, and it's purported "Sampson" code name. Hoagland's reply was that he wasn't sure of ANY of it. But, Hoagland did reiterate his claim that he had gotten the info from "inside sources". Hoagland came across, though, as if he was convinced that the predicted Dec. 7 "landing" event would take place. (Wonder how he's going to work "19.5" into this one! ;) Bob Soetebier St. Louis County, Missouri Tailwinds to you... See you ON the road! /// BICYCLE BOB /// bikebob@mo.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:58:02 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:41:15 -0500 Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:34:41 -0400 >>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:46:15 -0600 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' <snip> >>We can persue this further if you like, Stan, but I was very >>much active in the BBS at that time <snip> >What is BBS? >Stan Friedman puzzled in Fredericton. It can have either of two meanings. For stutterers, it means something close to "misinformation." For others, it refers to computer bulletin boards. Kind regards,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:17:06 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:44:30 -0500 Subject: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:00:35 -0500 >Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:20:15 -0500 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? Previously I offered: >>Now, don't quote me on this, but I have it on good authority >>(based on an anonymous source with connections close to someone >>that allegedly overheard cryptic information as it was being >>passed from one unnamed top level official to another) regarding >>classified reports which have come into my possession that, for >>reasons that I can't devulge, I am unfortunately unable to share >>with the list but which, none the less, prove everything that I >>am about to claim; such reports relate total disclosure >>regarding the Phoenix Lights including, but not limited to, >>their origin and connection with the military. > >>As I'm sure you'll understand, I can't go into detail now. >>However, unidentified sources indicate that others that have >>heard of these reports were impressed enough, despite a lack of >>access to the actual documents, to suggest that there may be >>some information within vital enough to warrant the reading >>and/or study of this material should it ever be declassified. > >>I, myself, haven't actually read these documents, but it is my >>understanding that everything in them has been verified through >>vigorous analysis by officials "high up" in the system. Such >>verification can be verified by cross indexing the original >>documents with the people that originally heard about them. They >>will attest to the fact that they are pretty sure the reports >>exist, according to a source which wishes to remain anonymous, >>and that the information contained within is, in fact, assumed >>to be there. > >>I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel the release of >>this information pretty much blows the lid off everything >>regarding UFOs, government cover-ups, discplane technology, >>crop circles, Roswell as well as Dr. Reed and his tragic hand >>puppet with no shoulders. > >>Trust me. I never lie and I'm always right.... Michael responded: >What's new here? > >You supposedly have information that you can't talk about, can't >discuss on the list, haven't read, don't want to be quoted on, >from an anonymous source, with connections close to someone that >allegedly overheard,regarding classified reports which have come >into my possession that, for reasons that I can't devulge, I am >unfortunately unable to share with the list but which, none the >less, prove everything that I am about to claim. >Just what is it that you have proved here, if you don't mind me >asking. And of course the last part of your letter the ( Trust >me. I never lie and I'm always right....) really makes me wonder >about your post. And one other question if you would just what >does this blow the lid off of. My response: Michael. It's a joke. Later, George R. Tirebiter
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Crop Circle Lecture - November 28, 1998 From: UFO*BC <david_pengilly@dccnet.com> Date: 19 Nov 1998 19:20:19 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:53:56 -0500 Subject: Crop Circle Lecture - November 28, 1998 Just a reminder about the crop circle lecture. Michael Glickman will show slides of this year's best formations from southern England. Chad Deetken will show slides and discuss his investigation of this summer's Vanderhoof, BC formation. Please bring your family and tell your friends. We are hoping for a sold out event. "CROP CIRCLES 98" 7:30 PM, Saturday November 28th, 1998 Pacific Space Centre (Vancouver Planetarium) 1100 Chestnut Street Vancouver, BC. Tickets: $15 Available at: Banyen Sound, Vancouver or Phoenix Books, Surrey Reservations at (604) 878-6511. Don't forget to pick up Michael Glickman's "1999 Crop Circle Calendar"! Makes a great Christmas present! *********************************************************** If you do not want to receive these updates, please reply with your e-mail address and I will gladly remove your name from the list. Thank you. Dave Pengilly dave@ufobc.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, "landing" From: Bob Soetebier - bikebob <bikebob@mo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:51:25 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:54:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, "landing" I did not add the "David John Oates" info [see appended info in an "anonymized" -- by me -- e-mail comment I've just received] in regards to Hoagland's predicted (purported) Dec. 7 "landing" event, as I had assumed that most people have already read Oates' comments via either Jeff Rense's www.sightings.com or Michael Lindemann's www.cninews.com But, just in case some of you have not... Bob S. Tailwinds to you... See you ON the road! /// BICYCLE BOB /// bikebob@mo.net -------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:48:01 -0500 From: [deleted] To: bikebob <bikebob@mo.net> Subject: Re: Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, "landing" event? Bob Did you receive the statement from David Oates of reverse speech fame? .... Oates is very concerned with the stuff Hoagland has been saying about insider info etc... when Oates says it is him who is the source of RH info, via reverse tape analysis of several government people doing TV interviews. Oates says Hoagland has got carried away and there can be many interpretations of the code name and place that Oats passed to Hoagland. The latter had been in regular contact with the former over many months. .... <snip> --------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 P-1947: Tesla, Marconi and Todd: First Contact? From: James Easton <pulsar@COMPUSERVE.COM> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:13:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:06:26 -0500 Subject: P-1947: Tesla, Marconi and Todd: First Contact? The following is taken from the imminent second issue of my newsletter. In light of some recent list discussions, I thought the extract might be of interest: The 'National Institute for Discovery Science' (NIDS) has some interesting material on their web site. The introduction explains: "Our attention was directed toward the existence of this paper by one of our colleagues in the scientific community. After further inquiry, it was found that this paper is archived at the Linda Hall Library (an independent research library of science and technology, 800-662-1545) in Kansas City, Missouri. The paper is archived on microfiche and, after further investigation, we found that no original hard copy is obtainable from either the Linda Hall Library or IBM's archives. We then ordered a photocopy of the paper be made from microfiche and sent to NIDS". "More commentary is forthcoming!". The paper is entitled, 'AN HISTORIC REPORT ON LIFE IN SPACE: TESLA, MARCONI, TODD', by C. D. Jackson and R. E. Hohmann of 'International Business Machines Corp', Kingston, New York The IBM scientists presented their paper at the American Rocket Society's 17th annual meeting held in Los Angeles during November 1962. Summarising the subject matter, they wrote: "During the years 1899-1924 three experimental scientists, Nikola Tesla, Guglielmo Marconi, and David Todd (working independently of each other) observed laboratory data and related phenomena which suggested the possibility that they were monitoring interplanetary communications. During the same period (1899-1924) the Russian theorist Konstantin Tsiolkovsky deduced a model of an intelligence existing independently of terrestrial influence. Tesla, Marconi, and Todd did not know that they were working with identical data, nor did they know that these data corroborated, in a quantitative manner, the theoretical model built by Tsiolkovsky". Had Tesla and Marconi's experiments inadvertently detected signals from another civilisation? What was the source of the enigmatic, periodic, ordered transmissions that led Tesla to believe, "I am absolutely certain that they are not caused by anything terrestrial" and reportedly led Marconi to similarly conclude the pulses originated, "at some point in outer space". Scanned copies of the original paper can now be seen on the NIDS site at: http://www.accessnv.com/nids/Jackson_Hohmann_SETI.shtml Some related material also on-line is, 'Communicating with Mars: The Experiments of Tesla & Hodowanec', by Robert A. Nelson, at: http://www.borderlands.com/journal/marscom.htm Is this paper relatively unknown? James
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Filer's Files #46-1998 From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:39:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:39:43 -0500 Subject: Filer's Files #46-1998 Source: http://ufoinfo.com/filer/1998/ff_4698.html Filer's Files #46-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer: MUFON Eastern Director, November 20, 1998 Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 Filer's Files: sponsored by Global Force Ltd SIGHTINGS INCREASE WORLDWIDE General Kanshi Ishikawa, Chief of Staff of Japan=92s Air Self Defense Force stated in 1967. "Much evidence tells us UFOs have been tracked by radar; so, UFOs are real and they may come from outer space. UFO photographs and various materials show scientifically that there are more advanced people piloting the saucers and motherships." UFO News: Vol. 6, 1974 MASSACHUSETTS AUBURN--Jonathan reports he had a sighting on November 14, 1998, at 9:02 AM. He and five other witnesses saw a small pink ball circling the morning sky. It was unlike anything we have ever seen. It started circling slow, then faster until it shot away into the distance. We heard a low humming noise, then a sharp screech. It left a blue streak that quickly disappeared. We took numerous photos, but have not developed them. Thanks to Larry Clark, clark@ibm.net, http://www.nymufon.org, and Jonathan, Ratsnake8@aol.com. 832-8577. GEORGIA ATLANTA=97Tom Sheets our MUFON State Director reports activity has increased. A local resident contacted the Atlanta Journal inquiring to whom they could report a UFO. The witness claims he and his wife saw a gray isosceles triangle shaped craft on October 15, 1998, near Kennesaw Mountain. At 12:30 PM the craft quickly flew to the north and changed it's shape to that of a disc before vanishing. Mike Hitt found the article. Upon speaking to the witness' husband, Mike stated that they were still undecided about cooperating with the investigation. Initial findings were that the two are professionals with good reputations in government service. DALTON--Assistant State Director Mark Ausmus developed information on a video taped light in the southwestern sky on November 4, 1998. He traveled to Dalton and interviewed the witness and saw his videotape. The video indicated a large glowing orb about 1/4 the size of the full moon hovering in the southwest sky shortly after midnight. It appeared to be slightly elongated, giving off varying colors and appeared highly unusual to both Ausmus and Tom Sheets. Mark is currently analyzing the data gathered from the witness and the video against astronomical charts, celestial bodies and any possible artifacts or defects in the video camera. This is the most spectacular aberrant footage in this investigator's experience. DAHLONEGA--On November 8, 1998, a college degreed medical specialist was commuting to his place of employment on the North side of Atlanta. As he drove south on Highway 400 near the Dawson/Forsythe County line, he noticed a group of cylinder shaped objects fly down in front of his truck. They began a series of darting movements directly over the roadway. He was shaken by this event and slowed his speed. He was able to observe the activity closely at about 6:00 AM despite some rainy weather and fog. He stated he saw 30 to 40 dark colored objects, cylinder shaped and 16" X 6" in size. They continued this activity for ten minutes in front of his truck, getting as close as twenty feet away and as low to the pavement as six to twelve feet. He also noticed six or seven round white lights in the overcast sky performing similar maneuvers described as 'like bees swarming.' He stated that the lights were about as bright as vehicle headlights and about the size of 1 1/2 inches in diameter held at arm's length. He continued on south until the objects were no longer visible. SMYRNA--On November 12, 1998, the witness was working with his computer located in front of a window at 3:30 to 4:00 AM. His view was to the north across the airstrip of Dobbins Air Force Base about 1 1/2 miles away. He observed a bright light that seemed to be hovering several hundred feet over the runway. He went outside and found it did not appear to be an aircraft. He indicated it was a brilliant glowing light, hard to describe its shape due to the unusual glow, but that it appeared to be larger at the bottom and brilliant white. It moved up in altitude to about 1,500 feet, came back down, bounced, and changed to a dull red glow. It bounced for an estimated twelve to fifteen minutes. The witness estimated it was the size of an aspirin held at arm's length. He also compared it's brilliant phases to that of a child's fireworks sparkler. He knocked on his neighbor's window to awaken them, and it was later determined they also witnessed the event from their window. The light finally rose up higher, began to dim and moved to the east slowly until it disappeared. The base PIO officer advised that the whole base was closed the night of the event due to the holiday. Mark Ausmus is handling this investigation. Thanks to Tom Sheets GA MUFON State Director. OHIO CINCINNATI--A suspected UFO was sighted, November 11, between Dayton and Cincinnati by a motorist traveling southbound on Interstate-75. Mrs. Jackson, enroute to Franklin, Tennessee, was accompanied by a friend when an odd aerial object was spotted in the late-afternoon 4:30 PM. Peter Davenport of the National UFO Reporting Center was contacted. The object looked like a fireball or comet but suddenly stopped. The tail of the comet disappeared and the object then emerged as silver/gray disc rounded at the top and sides. Thanks to Peter Davenport, NUFORC and Kenny Young http://home.fuse.net/task/ ARKANSAS LITTLE ROCK--RMR Jones reports she had two daylight UFO sightings over Arkansas recently. The first took place on October 28, 1998, about twenty miles outside of Hot Springs, Arkansas at 4:30 PM. The second took place on Wednesday, November 11, 1998, a few minutes before noon while driving west out of Little Rock near Alexander. She said, "They were beautiful and both looked like a silver dish flying in the sky. They kind of were waning in and out of view. Although, they were both discs they did not look the same. The first was larger, whiter and more stationary and lasted longer. The second was a white cigar looking thing, sort of shimmering. They were larger than any star or planet. She observed each craft for several minutes. Jones watches the sky on a regular basis, so she is able to pick UFOs out quickly when compared to an aircraft. They moved with a subtle and slow silvery movement. Thanks to R. Jones@aol.com. COLORADO SAN LUIS VALLEY--On November 12, 1998, Christopher O'Brien reports that my brother and I witnessed an unusual aerial object in Chaffee/Custer/Huerfano County. We were driving north in the Baca Development at 6:15 PM. Directly in front of us framed in the windshield, we watched an extremely bright steady light rise quickly from behind the mountains around the Salida/Howard area. The light which was initially brighter and slightly larger than Venus and visible for about two minutes shot up and out, SW to NE, at a 25 degree angle. It never varied its speed, which appeared to be twice as fast as a cruising commercial jetliner, or around 1000 to 1200 mph. As it climbed higher, it became smaller and disappeared. The UFO was just inside the La Veta Military Operations area. MESITA=97Also the same night at 9:45 PM, in Alamosa, Conejos Counties two witnesses were returning home when they spotted two bright, unblinking lights. They rose up 100 miles away to the NW around the Treasure Mt./Wolf Creek Pass area. The lights moved in tandem-about 1 degree apart. One witness observed the 30 second sighting with binoculars. The lights appeared to head SE at around an altitude of 4,000 feet, before slowly turning and heading south at the San Luis Hills. At its closest point, the object blocked out the background stars. The witness estimated the distance between the two lights as "about 600 feet." He described the sighting (one of a dozen he has had in the last two years) as being "by far the most spectacular night sighting" he has experienced. The sighting took place 50 miles west of the La Veta MOA. Thanks to Christopher O'Brien CAUS/Skywatch tmv@amigo.net http://home.amigo.net/tmv/. I enjoyed being on Chris=92s radio program last week. MONTANA SIGHTINGS CONTINUE ST IGNATIUS -- Robert A.M. Stephens reports that a UFO has been observed almost nightly during the last several weeks. The ongoing UFO sightings have continued as of November 13th except during inclement weather. Cloud cover broke and the UFO, alone, was there as it had been only lower in altitude and slightly further south toward the town of St. Ignatius, ten miles south of Ronan along the southern edge of the sprawling Mission Valley. Due to nearly 100% cloud cover with snow and storm over the last several nights viewing has been null since the 6th of November. Observation was made by local law enforcement as well as workers at a local manufacturing facility. Total of witnesses as of this writing has exceeded 600. The viewing time and conditions for this latest sighting was from 1:27 AM to 3:34 AM. The UFO is described as being a 600 foot triangle. The only remotely close related vehicle that could exhibit anything related to this anomaly is the Aurora high propulsion VTOL capable aircraft. However, size and performance of this vehicle seems to rule it out. Rumors claim it has been grounded for further structural tests at Area 51, Edwards Air Force Base, and at parent contractors test facilities at Palmdale, California. THE FENCE -- The 'Fence' protocol at NORAD is a remarkable program made up of many technicians monitoring a series of interleaved grids coming from Geostationary high orbit satellites. The office tracks all 9,653 man made objects in space orbiting Earth. These include: a pair of gloves from Gemini 6 and some dozen washers dropped on a repair mission on STS-51space shuttle mission. If something untoward enters into the tracking field (the fence) it then begins. These include every other orbiting object of artificial origin along with the occasional meteorite that may remain in Earth's space for some overly long seconds. a series of tracking logarithms to track speed, location, altitude, departure angle, mass, heat, and inherent velocity. From there it runs a test for itself to confirm that whatever it is not something we have in space. From there a management program kicks in called, 'Intruder Assessment.' If a series of democratic protocols weigh out then the next step is to start a series of visual confirmations with our own air assets. High speed aircraft are dispatched to attempt intercept. From there the 'Fence' protocols go through a series of 'what is' formats until the intruding element is either confirmed to be something from us or an unknown. Unknowns are called a 'Gray.' This is because the unknown is there in space but is not ours. It is not a 'target white' (friend) nor a 'target black' (foe). Thus far the Montana UFO is a 'Gray' as listed. It is also the 117,443 unknown to be catalogued at the 'Fence' office at NORAD or SAC since 1966, globally. It is suspected they (NORAD) have moved any one of three Keyhole deep-look satellites into position in high Earth Orbit to watch this bogey when it appears since conventional ground based air assets have failed to acquire craft for confirmation due to vehicle exhibiting phasing or some other type of eluding of recon aircraft. UFOs are not referred to as such in the military/NASA parlance. They are either a 't-white' (target white) if friend, 't-black' (target black) if a foe. Unknowns are a 't-gray' or sometimes a 'tg' for an acronym if not of Earth origin. Reported by Robert A. Stephens, sti3818@montana.com. Contractor, NASA Shuttle Documentation Program St. Ignatius, Montana. Posted by (conan.gocis.bg) on 11/13/98 Thanks to ISUR and John Thompson. SCOTLAND CLYDEBANK-- Skywatch International=92s Dave Ledger reports there has been a jump in the number of sightings in the last few months. KAREN1 reports that on September 13, 1998, around 1:00 AM a plane flying by our window looked very strange. There was a flash of white, then a second flash lighting up the sky around it as the craft moved slowly North. It then stopped and began to move back to the South and then hovered above some nearby trees for twenty minutes. It then moved down below the trees and then back up again vertically until it appeared like a bright star in the sky. The object was around airplane size and had red, blue and white lights. LENROTHES-- As I was coming out of a house near the local school on October 5, I saw something unusual in the clouds. A craft was hovering silently inside a cloud with rotating headlamps (4 sides). This lasted for about 15 seconds then it disappeared. The next night I saw it again around the same time, but only for 5 seconds on between Glenrothes and Dundee. TAYPORT, FIFE--October 18th, 1998 The witness saw a very bright light in sky at 2:30 AM. It was static and there was no noise. It was definitely not a star or a planet. "We live near RAF Leuchars and are used to seeing various aircraft and it was not an aircraft." The night sky was very clear. I got my parents out of bed to come and look and they also witnessed it. When it was daylight I went out to have a look and see if there was anything such as a very large security light or a mast that could have caused what I saw, but there was nothing. Direction of light was southwest about-300 feet above the horizon. The object was between Tayport and Newport and was low in the sky compared to the stars. It was a very bright white light, that did not pulse and it gave off no beam. It was about the size of a large passenger aircraft. There was no noise and the object was completely lit. Thanks to Don Ledger dledger@cableinet.co.uk FINLAND HELSINKI--On November 13, 1998, Eusebius V=E4h=E4nl=E4nt=E4 saw a huge lightning on the northern sky followed by strange vibrations at 7:10 PM. It lasted for about five minutes and then everything was silent, strangely silent -- no birds singing, etc. About two minutes after the sound we heard a sighing sound or some kind of hissing above us. We saw nothing, but the sound grew louder. The sound faded away and there was a slight thump. We were looking from our balcony and we saw three strange figures entering our backyard. They moved around a bit, but we could not make out, what they were doing. One of them was glowing a purple light occasionally and one was blinking, like the first one, but with faster frequency. They moved about for a while, when one of them climbed a tree. It got up about two meters, to the height of the first branches on that tree. Then the other two started making some kind of noise -- a noise like striking two metal bars. Then the blinking one moved towards the tree. The one on the tree descended and they all left. We searched without finding them. Phone 09 3456903, Teininkatu 13 00640 Helsinki, Finland. SOUTHERN CHINA UFO BEIJING--November 14, 1998, (AFP) Residents in the southern Chinese city of Xiamen have sighted an apple-like UFO with a tail of red and yellow flame. The overseas edition of the People's Daily reported the story Saturday. The party organ carried a China News Agency report saying the UFO was first sighted at 3:33 PM flying in a southwest direction for about twenty minutes before disappearing. A similar craft was sighted the following day. The report said the sighting of the UFO, which was also captured on film by the local television station, had Xiamen residents craning their head skywards hoping for another appearance. "MARITIME UFO FILES" Gina Miller of the New Brunswick Telegraph Journal [Canada] of November 10, 1998, claims the truth is out there. According to a new book, Maritime UFO Files by Don Leger more than 225,000 Atlantic Canadians have seen what they consider to be an unidentified flying object -- known as UFOs. On top of that, some 54 per cent of Canadians who participated in a poll carried out by Manitoba Astronomer Chris Rutowski believe that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. Some 35 per cent of those polled believe that intelligent life is visiting us now. Mr. Leger lives in Bedford, N.S. A former pilot and now a civil servant, he has been researching UFO phenomena for six years. He has culled his information from a vast and shadowy nest of military and Royal Canadian Mounted Police documents. Mr. Leger's book begins its catalogue of UFO sightings and alien abductions in the 1950s. From here he chronicles decades of first-hand accounts made by scientists, ordinary citizens, pilots and RCMP officers. Bright lights, time lapses and the people who have seen or felt the presence of UFOs are confused and cannot understand how the hour has leapt ahead or what happened during that time. Drivers report that they found themselves careening along country roads at high speeds in vain efforts to outrun gleaming saucers in the sky. Joseph Robichaud, filed a UFO report to Constable J.A. St. Pierre in Richibucto. At 3:30 AM on October 3, 1976, The red glowing disc caught up to him very quickly despite travelling at speeds of 185 km/hr on the treacherous Highway 480. Eventually, with the UFO hovering above him, Mr. Robichaud arrived at a small group of houses. He slammed on the brakes, and ran from the car to take refuge. The UFO, he reported "stopped at about 91 metres from him and hovered silently. The UFO was about the size of a house, and was red in color similar to burning coals in a fire." Despite the high number of UFO sightings in Atlantic Canada, most go unreported, writes Mr. Leger. Which explains why from 1947 to 1988 only 300 Maritime cases are on file with the National Research Council in Ottawa. People will not report due to fear of ridicule. Thanks to Gerry @ Far Shores Web Site, http://www.farshore.force9.co.uk NEW EVIDENCE THAT SOMETHING CRASHED IN NEW MEXICO 1947 In recent weeks I have communicated with Don Berliner, Stan Friedman and Kevin Randle about this important case. Some fifty people they interviewed for their books claim to have observed alien material not of this world, or at the least very strange. Lets face it, peoples memories can be faulty after fifty years. But the evidence found in photographs and documents remains fresh. Photographs taken by Dr. Bond Johnson fifty one years ago show a message held in the hand of General Ramey. Our photo interpreter=92s initial computer enhancement show words such as "victims of mishap," and second site S "Magdalena." One communication that now takes on significant new meaning is a July 10, 1947, FBI office memorandum to D.M. Ladd from E. G. Fitch. The Army=92s top intelligence officer General Schulgen had asked Special Agent Reynolds for help in investigating flying Disks. A top FBI leader, Clyde Tolson endorsed the memo on July 15, saying, "I think we should do this." It was passed into J. Edgar Hoover, the director of the FBI. Who wrote: "I would do it but before agreeing to it we must insist upon full access to disks recovered. For instance in the La case the Army grabbed it and would not let us have it for cursory examination." The location of La has always been a mystery. "La" could mean Los Angles or Louisiana, or something else. It happens that just south of Socorro, and only 20 miles from Magdalena there is a small town called Laborcita. This town is on the main Highway 28 near the intersection with Highway 380 that heads east into White Sands Proving Grounds and eventually to Roswell. Keven Randle sent an E-mail, saying he doubts General Ramey would hold such an important message in his hand. But, if the interpretation is accurate this is an amazing break through in the case. GET THE BEST AND HELP UFO RESEARCH, IT COULD SAVE YOU MONEY As a special aid to our readers, we can help you obtain the best real estate experts in your area at no cost to you. Make sure you have a top notch agent, to buy or sell your home . We provide free relocation information and consulting services from the largest and most respected firms. If your planning to sell or buy a home and would like a top flight real estate agent give me a call at 609 654-0020 or E-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com. For more detailed investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON UFO JOURNAL by writing 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or call 1-800 UFO-2166. E- mail Mufon@aol.com. Filer's Files Copyright 1998 by MUFON EASTERN DIRECTOR all rights reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on their Websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item appeared. Send your letters to George A. Filer at Majorstar@aol.com. If you wish to keep your name confidential please so state in your E-mails.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:56:34 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:51:30 -0500 Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:52:48 -0000 >>Bill Moore did not railroad Bennewitz into a mental hospital. >>Bennewitz did have mental health problems according to a >>Psychologist I talked to before Moore got involved. >It seems to me that the whole thing involving Doty set up a host >of myths and disinformation which formed the basis of much >current Ufology; the idea in hidden underground bases, >abductions and breeding programmes, the big secret (MJ-12) and >more. Come on Tim... I happen to know that the Undreground bases are not just so much BS.... I talked to a gentleman from Germany who worked For Grobe Corporaton back in 92 or 93, who helped build parts of the Underground complex at Alamogordo, NM... He told me that he could not discuss the details of the underground installation to me, but he could tell me that he knew there were at least seven levels down in the underground because he went down that far to help install some unspecified machinery. He told me he had worked there during the late 50's and early 60's. He claimed to have met with President Kennedy on several occassions. This gentleman was the Grobe Maintainance Supervisor, who was at Eaton Axle to supervise the installation of a seven million dollar differential carrier machining line where we machined our own carriers in house to assemble a complete dressed axel for the large trucks. He would not talk about any of the other underground bases. He spoke English well although he did have a heavy accent, as would be expected... I only wish I had had more time to talk with him away from our plant. REgards, Mike ICQ#:7508455.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Dave Ledger <dledger@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:53:17 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:55:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >From: Jeff Rense <eotl@west.net> >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:55:06 -0800 (PST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? Jeff Rense wrote: >Even today's new UFO reports from Scotland published by Errol >have 'name witheld' in several places. <snip> Hi Errol ,Jeff and list, In a recent message to the list, It was mentioned and criticism was implied, about witness's names being witheld from UFO sighting reports. Does that mean that you are going to disregard all sighting reports that come from sources who do not wish their names to be mentioned due to ridicule etc? That was certainly the case with my reports anyway. If a person submits a report to us (UFO Scotland), and requests that they remain anonymous, then that is exactly what they will get. Anonymity. I have a contact address for them all, or they would not be posted, but that does not mean that I should paste it all over the internet does it? Whatever happened to witness protection and confidentiality? It is also my opinion that most of the credible sighting reports posted to our website come from many who do not wish to be named.They are merely reporting something odd that they have seen but perhaps are in a position where it would be damaging to them if they did go public. It does not make their report any less credible than the next persons at least not in our eyes anyway. I hope that I have not ruffled any feathers here, but I had to say something in defence of witnesses and their requests/rights.The main reason that most people come forward with reports of anomalous sightings to the UFO Scotland website is because they can do it with confidentiality and it is honoured. It is important that researchers respect that, and not demand every last tiny item of info. If that happens, I am sure that the bulk of the UFO reports from around the world would take a sharp nose-dive. That would not be good for UFO research/study at all. I am not implying that we should ignore any relevant facts pertaining to a case either, merely stating the importance of respecting witnesses requests. Just something to think about perhaps. Take care all. Dave Ledger. (UFO Scotland) -- ================================================================== If you see someone without a smile......give them one of yours :) ****************************************************************** Posted by: Dave Ledger (mailto:UFOSCOT@cableinet.co.uk) VISIT "UFO SCOTLAND" AT: http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/index.htm Reach us on ICQ #4851425 ****************************************************************** THE TRUTH IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER!..................BUT HOW FAR?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: D.J. Oates on Hoagland's "Inside Sources" From: Bob Soetebier - bikebob <bikebob@mo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:30:19 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:08:20 -0500 Subject: Re: D.J. Oates on Hoagland's "Inside Sources" For those of you who have not read David John Oates' (of "Reverse Speech" analysis fame) 11-13-98 statement about Richard Hoagland's claimed "insider sources" in regards to Hoagland's predicted (purported) Dec. 7, 1998, "north of Phoenix, Arizona" "landing" event...then be sure to check out this article... David Oates' Statement On Hoagland's "December 7th" and "Samson" ...upon Jeff Rense's "Sightings On The Radio" web site at this specific URL: http://www.sightings.com/ufo/oates.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:19:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:10:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >From: Jeff Rense <eotl@west.net> >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:55:06 -0800 (PST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >>From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:33:22 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Phoenix Lights Breakthrough? >>Hello, list and all... The recent Phoenix Lights "breakthrough" might./..... just might.... be relevant to the events between 8 and 9 PM , March 13, 1997. However the 10 PM sightings and more recent ones (Jan 14, 1998 and even as recent as Nov. 17, 1998) are more likely to be distant flares. see www.geocities.com/area51/stargate/5518/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Laura Lee Show E-News - November 21, 1998 From: Laura Lee Show <webmaster@lauralee.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:09:19 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:17:04 -0500 Subject: Laura Lee Show E-News - November 21, 1998 LAURA LEE E-NEWS Thanks for subscribing to Laura Lee E-News. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Laura Lee E-News is sent by subscription only. If you wish to unsubscribe go to: http://www.lauralee.com/cfdocs/laura/mailinglist/enduse.cfm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RADIO SHOW GUEST/TOPIC LINE UP - Saturday, November 21, 1998 By Laura Lee Steve Bassett Continues to speculate on whether Presidents, Reagan, Bush, and Clinton, have been briefed on the Alien Presence. http://www.lauralee.com/bassett.htm Noel Twyman Noel Twyman has new theories on the Kennedy Assassination. As November 22nd, approaches, lets reflect on the 35 years that have passed since the death of JFK. Author of "Bloody Treason: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy" http://www.lauralee.com/twyman.htm Jason Kelly Jason Kelly says that as a society, we are too dependent upon our technology. So what ripple effects will we feel when computers begin glitching with the Y2K problem? http://www.lauralee.com/kelly.htm "Dreamscape" Open phones: Periodically we do open phones on the radio on unusual dreams, sightings, Near Death Experiences, visions, etc. THIS WEEK'S POLL: Do you plan to do any serious preparation for Y2K? TO VOTE go to: http://www.lauralee.com/poll.cfm After voting give us your feedback on the Laura Lee Bulletin Board: http://www.lauralee.com/bulletin.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JOIN US for our NEW WEEKDAY INTERNET ONLY SHOW FRIDAY, November 20, 1998 Noel Twyman Noel Twyman has new theories on the Kennedy Assassination. He will outline his research and additional details on the Saturday show. Author of "Bloody Treason: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy" http://www.lauralee.com/twyman.htm FOR INFORMATION on the internet only show Laura Lee Online: go to http://www.lauralee.com/talkspot.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ANSWERS TO FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS FOLLOW. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE LAURA LEE SHOW WEBSITE: http://www.lauralee.com/index.cfm REAL AUDIO ARCHIVES: Posted in full by Sunday Noon Pacific for the previous nights show. Now formatted in REAL AUDIO. The Audio Archives will remain on our website indefinitely. http://www.lauralee.com/archives.htm AUDIO CASSETTES: Should you need an audio tape of same to send to a friend, or to listen to when you are not at your computer, call 1-800-243-1438. Tapes are edited of commercial and news breaks, are often on 90 minute cassettes, and only $7 each. More info at: http://www.lauralee.com/cassette.htm LIVE WEBCAST: If you cannot get radio reception, try the webcast during live show hours. To join the webcast, click the AUDIO button on our homepage, and follow directions from there. Or go direct: http://www.lauralee.com/aud_live.htm BULLETIN BOARD SECTION for YOUR REACTION TO GUESTS: We named it "And the Conversation Continues" This new feature is a bulletin board segmented by date, then guest, to gather your musings and reactions to the various guest and their research. Offer as well as read the musings of others, including Laura Lee. http://www.lauralee.com/bulletin.htm LIVE RADIO SHOW HOURS: Saturday 7 PM to Sunday 2 AM Pacific Saturday 8 PM to Sunday 3 AM Mountain Saturday 9 PM to Sunday 4 AM Central Saturday 10 PM to Sunday 5 AM Eastern RADIO STATION LIST: For a complete list of stations carrying the Laura Lee Show, click on the TIMES & STATIONS button. Please note that not every station takes all of our show hours. And if your local station does not, you can always direct an email message or postcard to the Program Director, requesting that he/she add the missing hours of our show to their lineup. That simple gesture can work wonders! http://www.lauralee.com/stations.htm LIVE INTERNET SHOW HOURS: Monday - Friday 8 PM to 10 PM Pacific (Starting at 11 PM Eastern) WEEKLY BOOK GIVEAWAY: Books, videos and audio tapes are given away from a random drawing of entries. To enter, go to: http://www.lauralee.com/contest.htm SEE SOME INTERESTING PHOTOS Weve got "must-see" photos of Chinas pyramids, and Japans underwater stone mysteries. View photos at: http://www.lauralee.com/mystery.htm LAST MINUTE CHANGES OFTEN OCCUR: The list above of posted guests/topics represent what is scheduled when this is sent. Last minute and often unavoidable changes can occur. When a scheduled guest is unable to join us, well include a rescheduled time/date in the next email message to you. We apologize for any inconvenience. TO SUBSCRIBE: If you wish receive these weekly updates, and you are not already on our list (perhaps someone kindly forwarded this message to you) simply return this message with "subscribe" as the subject, and we will add you to our email list. Or go direct to http://www.lauralee.com/cfdocs/laura/mailinglist/enduse.cfm TO UNSUBSCRIBE: If you receive this message without subscribing, it means that someone else has entered you for subscription. If you wish discontinue receiving these updates, simply return this message with "unsubscribe" as the subject, and we will take you off our email list. Or go direct to http://www.lauralee.com/cfdocs/laura/mailinglist/enduse.cfm THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT We appreciate it! Please tell your friends and colleagues around the world about our website, the radio show, and our audio archives to which they can listen at any time. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: Real Men Choose C! From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:10:36 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:25:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Real Men Choose C! >Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:38:03 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Real Men Choose C! >Alien beings from a highly advanced society visit the earth. You >are the first human they have encountered and as a token of >inter-galactic friendship they present you with a small but >incredibly sophisticated device that is capable of curing all >diseases, provide an infinite supply of clean energy, wipe out >hunger, and permanently eliminate oppression and violence. What >would you do with it? >A. Present it to the Prime Minister >B. Present it to the Secretary General of the United Nations. >C. Take it apart to what makes it tick. Dear Sean: At first I thought you were referring to C - language. Shouldn't there be more choices? D, E, F ... Best wishes - Larry Hatch. PS: We don't have a prime minister here, just Bill Clinton, and I would not give this marvelous device to him. -LH
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:09:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:34:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:14:41 -0500 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >Whilst browsing through correspondence on the >rec.radio.shortwave newsgroup, normally a safe haven, I was >somewhat shaken to see the following: <snip> >On December 7th, William Cooper will become a houshold name. > [End] >Curious that December 7th is the day of reckoning here. Obviously, a date that will "live in infamy". (Sorry . . . ) <snip> >I'm still looking to buy a suitable Christmas present for my Mother- >in-Law and if anyone could confirm a supplier of those goat-foot >ashtrays... Can't help you with a goat-foot ashtray, but I know where you can buy a leather pouch made from a part of a bull's anatomy that. . . .er. . .let's just leave it at that. Oh, and I know a shop in Baltimore that features custom jewelry made in part from road-kill (bones and feathers). Good luck with the xmas shopping.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:17:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:36:40 -0500 Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:58:02 -0800 >>What is BBS? >>Stan Friedman puzzled in Fredericton. >It can have either of two meanings. For stutterers, it means >something close to "misinformation." For others, it refers to >computer bulletin boards. >Kind regards, >Keith Just to clarify it a bit further. BBS stands for Bulletin Board System, which was usually accessed via a modem directly, and not through the Internet. However, Internet links to many larger BBS systems were installed by many BBS operators toward the end of their reign as the primary link between computer users. Nearly all BBS systems provided free access to a text (or ASCII) based system and laid the philosophical groundwork for what later became the multimedia based World Wide Web.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Skywatch: Re: NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft From: agosa@indo.net.id (agosa) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:52:48 +0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:41:39 -0500 Subject: Skywatch: Re: NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft Skywatch is not responsible for the content or misuse of this list. ******** At 02:12 AM 11/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >Did anyone see the 6 PM NBC Network TV NEWS ?? !! on Nov.19 . >They had a short news >story about a NASA or US Air Force Unmanned remote control Flying >wing with a wingspan off two hundred and twenty feet and capable of >flying at 100,000 + feet to study the atmosphere. I wonder if it is >BLACK ? >Did anyone see this story and did they show a picture of it ? I just saw this on the news 2 hours ago. It was a very impressive plane, and certainly could, and would, be misinterpreted as a UFO. It was rather straight, only very slightly "V" shaped, very narrow, and quite white. Jack *************************** SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC. (A Non-Profit Organization)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 NBC TV News On Triangle From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:31:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:39:43 -0500 Subject: NBC TV News On Triangle Source: IUFO mailing list, November 20, http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/media/mailing/archive/iufo/msg01021.shtml Stig ******* IUFO Mailing List NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft !!! From: ranger116@webtv.net (Thomas Buyea) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:12:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: IUFO: NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft !!! -> IUFO Mailing List Peter Lawyer And the rest of the GANG Did anyone see the 6 PM NBC Network TV NEWS ?? !! on Nov.19 I was listening to it on my car radio ( Yes any FM Broadcast Radio, when tuned down to the lowest freq. 87.7 MHZ, will tune in the audio of TV Ch.6 (the NBC affiliate here in Miami). They had a short news story about a NASA or US Air Force Unmanned remote control Flying Wing with a wingspan off two hundred and twenty feet and capable of flying at 100,000 + feet to study the atmosphere. I wonder if it is BLACK? Did anyone see this story and did they show a picture of it ? Tom MIami,Fla. Ufologist Check Out My Cockatiel Angel's Web Page She Made It Herself (I Think She Is An Alien) HTTP://home.talkcity.com/valentinedr/Angel----------Cake? -> Send "subscribe iufo " to majordomo@world.std.com -> Posted by: ranger116@webtv.net (Thomas Buyea)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 BBS? [was: ...Info? On 'Branton'] From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:35:07 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:44:25 -0500 Subject: BBS? [was: ...Info? On 'Branton'] >From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:58:02 -0800 >>What is BBS? >>Stan Friedman puzzled in Fredericton. >It can have either of two meanings. For stutterers, it means >something close to "misinformation." For others, it refers to >computer bulletin boards. >Kind regards, >Keith You are correct Keith...BBS equates to Bulletin Board System. I operated "SPACE_LINK BBS." The main theme of the BBS was Paranormal and UFO files and mail systems... The BBS carried the MUFON message 'Echo' [individual channels/crcuits were/are called an 'echo' --ebk] as well as the FIDO Message echo. It was established in early 1989, with the help of then MUFON State Director for Tennessee, John Komar and maintained as such until late 1997. At that time, the mail echo plug was pulled, since basically, most people had switched their affections to the Internet. The BBS is still active as a file repository, for those who might wish to look into the archives which go back to the late 80's. The phone number for SPACE_LINK BBS is: (502) 683-3026. In the near future, our Area Code is going to be changed to (207). I am not sure of the date of this change at this time. REgards, Mike ICQ#:7508455. (502) 683-6811
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Dead Cattle Alert Issued To Solve Mutilation Puzzle From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:52:32 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:50:21 -0500 Subject: Dead Cattle Alert Issued To Solve Mutilation Puzzle Source: IUFO mailing list, November 19, http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/media/mailing/archive/iufo/msg01017.shtml Stig ******* IUFO Mailing List FWD: (FT) Dead Cattle Alert Issued to Solve Mutilation Puzzle Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:33:33 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: IUFO: FWD: (FT) Dead Cattle Alert Issued to Solve Mutilation Puzzle -> IUFO Mailing List National Post, 19 Nov 1998, p. A17 Dead Cattle Alert Issued to Solve Mutilation Puzzle By David Staples A team of Las Vegas scientists is determined to solve the 100-year-old mystery of what has been causing cattle mutilations across North America, says the team's leader, Dr. Colm Kelleher. The National Institute of Discovery Science is on red alert to jet around the western U.S. and Western Canada in order to quickly autopsy a freshly dead, mutilated cow, at no cost to the rancher. The group--dedicated to studying matters outside the scientific mainstream--is backed by Vegas businessman Robert Bigelow. "We are moving in the direction of telling ranchers what might have caused the death of the animals," Dr. Kelleher says. In Western Canada in the past four years, cattle mutilations investigator Fern Belzil says he has heard of 80 such cases and investigated 45. The cows die for an unknown reason, then lose certain body parts, such as one ear, one eye, and the rectum, Mr. Belzil says. The cuts are done with "surgical precision." But Joe Nickell, a writer for *Skeptical Inquirer* magazine, says Mr. Belzil and the scientists at NIDS are engaging in pseudo-science. Cattle mutilation stories started in 1897, when a Colorado newspaper reported the case of space aliens mutilating a calf, Mr. Nickell says. A member of a local Liars' Club later admitted to planting the story. The bulk of evidence shows that mutilations are done by predators, Mr. Nickell says. Yet mutilation fever rages because the idea that cattle are being mutilated is a powerful one. When it takes hold of ranchers, Mr. Nickell says, they suddently start looking for evidence that in fact a mutilation has occurred, instead of relying on common sense, which would tell them cows die all the time for various reasons and scavengers come and eat them. Dr. Kelleher counters: "The ranching community has had that explanation for 30 years now. In order to dismiss this phenomenon you need an awful lot more evidence." Dr. Kelleher's team, which includes a veterinarian, wants to autopsy at least 20 cows that died no more than 24 hours previously. The team has already jetted up to Canada, flying in to North Battleford, Sask., to autopsy an allegedly mutilated cow at a ranch that has suffered 25 mutilations in the past 15 years. Unfortunately, laboratory error prevented accurate histopathological tests on the skin tissue, Dr. Kelleher says. -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean@primenet.com > Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/8832 Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program -> Send "subscribe iufo " to majordomo@world.std.com -> Posted by: "Terry W. Colvin" <fortean@primenet.com>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:01:05 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:03:26 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed >From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed >Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:38:45 -0500 >>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed >>Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:08:50 PST >>>From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >>>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:56:44 +0000 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: The Strange Case of Dr. Reed >>>Leanne, >>>All I can say is that I hope Dr. Reed is a better psychologist >>>than he is a photo retoucher. As I noted in a previous post, the >>>photo of the "ship" is one of the silliest I've ever seen. The >>>shadows on the trees are clearly on the opposite side as the >>>shadows on the "ship". What a joke. Must be that new prototype >>>alien cloaking mechanism; designed to make all photos of their >>>ships look like fakes! >>An obvious fake! >If I may... >Why is the aliens body blacked out from the neck down? >Why are you on the run Dr. Reed? I'm sure Art himself could find >a way to protect you from your pursuers. Give him your location >and an army of dedicated listeners will come running to your >aid. You'll be safe (?) although you will lose the control over >the situation you now have. Perhaps "on the run" is a metaphor >for being thrown out by your wife. >Finally, I would like to know if the dog involved was a "good >dog" or was he a discipline problem that was costing his owner >money and patience. I think the aliens might be a cover story >for something more sinister, Mulder was right! >Now, what kind of fun can I have with this mask now that >Halloween is over? >Cheers, >Rick Goldsmith Perhaps Dr. Reed is hiding out somewhere in metropolitan Pahrump. Or, for more security Groom Lake and the Nuclear Test Site are not far away. An easy place to hide out and keep a secret. Or perhaps he is renting Glen Campbell's old Rachel trailer and Joe and Pat are buying free drinks for him. Celebrating Dr.Reed giving that alien what he deserved for attacking his dog. Joe and Pat perhaps would have done the same. NOW FOR THE SERIOUS PART: Please hold onto your hats (and clubs). Some of you faithful UpDates family may or may not know that Dr.Reed claims he has a video of him performing an examination of the alien. I hope it is proven or disproven quickly. Please spare me from a repeat of years of the Santilli strangeness. I'm getting too old to follow endless games and B.S. trails. And puleeez! Every time I hear a report on William Cooper I have to run into the bathroom and puke. If you ever saw him in full tirade, rabidly ranting at UFO Expos, etc. you know just what I'm talking about. If you ever read his newsletter years ago you certainly do know. He verbally and grossly attacked that "wonderful man" John (CIA) Lear and was very close to physically attacking him. Nothing like a drunken ranting brute. Except for a time difference, he made me feel like he could have easily been regime partners with Hitler, certainly Goebbels, and perhaps Goering. What really made me sick was seeing a roomful of naive and fearful people giving him a standing ovation. I'm amazed he is still alive. I thought he was going to die in a shootout with the Feds or the grays. Perhaps that is yet to come. I would not be surprised. The Cooper World Order is a sick proposition.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 MJ-12 & 'Research By Proclamation'? From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:07:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:14:19 -0500 Subject: MJ-12 & 'Research By Proclamation'? >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:52:48 -0000 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:10:07 -0400 >>Bill Moore did not railroad Bennewitz into a mental hospital. >>Bennewitz did have mental health problems according to a >>Psychologist I talked to before Moore got involved. >It seems to me that the whole thing involving Doty set up a host >of myths and disinformation which formed the basis of much >current Ufology; the idea in hidden underground bases, >abductions and breeding programmes, the big secret (MJ-12) and >more. >Doty, it would seem, was involved in the propagation of said >myths - so faithfully put out by better-known figures within >Ufology. But of course he was, like so many others, expendable >and now he's working as a cop in New Mexico (last time I >heard)....... >We are still suffering the consequences and these include people >like Stantons' refusal to debate the issue of flying discs and >their terrestrial origins. >It would seem that the alien myth must be continued at all >costs. As the Jack Pickett and Debra Carlson testimonies >indicate, the Pentagon was more than happy with the propagation >of the ET-human contact and disc from outer space lies...... >>Let's not dump when the evidence is contrary as opposed to >>repeated tales going way beyond what occurred. I was working >>very closely with Moore and was present when he gave his >>infamous talk in Las Vegas and chided him strongly about it >>later. >Given that Moore has been so closely associated with MJ-12 how >come Stanton is still supporting the myth? I note with caution >that some "new" (faked most likely) MJ-12 docs have miraculously >appeared. It obviously takes time to put together these hoaxes >but given that there are numerous researchers willing to believe >such nonsense - and that there is big money to be made from the >alien myth - then I suppose the hoaxers think it's worth it. >And even if ET lands tomorrow in my back garden it won't change >my view on Doty, MJ-12 and Bennewitz (the poor bastard). >The only difference between Branton and the creators of MJ-12 is >that the MJ-12ers paid more attention to detail and played a >longer game...... >Tim X Tim, The reactions to my book 'TOP SECRET/MAJIC' and my 'Final Report on Operation Majestic 12', and my paper 'Operation Majestic 12? YES!' etc. indicate that people recognize that I do my research by investigation not by proclamation. You might try this approach some time. Of course, the fact that I had a security clearance for 14 years and have been to 18 archives helped.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:07:07 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:18:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale >From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale >Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:30:18 PST <snip> >To the best of my knowledge it is illegal for people in Oz to >own meteorite debris and therefore they (we) have no legal right >to sell them. >An act of parliament has laid claim to all such objects for the >purposes of the scientific research and , therefore, for the >whole community and not just those fortunate enough to find them >and wanting to make a quick buck. >These are the "local Considerations". >Regards, >Leanne ];-) Darn, there go my chances of pre-selling mass ownership of that asteroid heading our way. I guees free is better. Then again, what are the U.S. laws? Joshman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Abduction of Blacks? From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>=20 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:19:25 -0200=20 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:27:10 -0500 Subject: Abduction of Blacks? Hello everybody, Today in Brazil is 'Black Consciousness Day'. I was wondering if anyone had heard of the abduction of somebody of black skin? Thiago Ticchetti * Eles est=E3o aqui *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Stan Remembers... [was: ... Info? On 'Branton'] From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:43:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:37:25 -0500 Subject: Stan Remembers... [was: ... Info? On 'Branton'] >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:42:02 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:34:41 -0400 >>Something is wrong here. Case of mistaken identity? >>I lived in Indianapolis,Indiana, from l963-1966 and in >>Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, from l966-1969. I moved to So. >>California in 1969 and to Northern California in l975 and then >>moved here to New Brunswick, Canada in l980. >>I had met Bill Moore briefly in Pittsburgh in the late 1960s and >>then again in Morris, Minnesota, in the late l970s. >>What is BBS? >>Stan Friedman puzzled in Fredericton. >Ok, Stan, you are correct. I didn't start calling you until >after you had moved to New Brunswick... >You came to Owensboro, Ky, in the mid-to-late sixties and gave a >lecture at Ky Wesleyan College. >You were living in Indianapolis or Pittsburg at that time. That >is where I got that... >Ralph Dorris, Engineer at GE; Jack Murphree, DJ at WOMI AM Radio >Station; and I attended your lecture and afterward, the three of >us went to the DownTown Resturant/Hotel for coffee and >discussion for about an hour or so... >I don't know if you remember this or not. >Then I called you several times during the 80's to discuss >things that were happening in ufology. >In Pensacola, in 1990, I took a series of photos of you and Phil >Klass disagreeing over some point and Phil was offering $20 if >you could prove him wrong...do you remember that? <g> >We can get back to the other discussion once we get this >straightened out. <g> Yes, I do remember that I spoke at Kentucky Wesleyan in Owensboro. I doubt if it was in the 1960s.. but it doesn't really matter. After the first 700 lectures I tend to forget most of the people I have met at them. People seem disappointed that I don't recall each individual. Hey, I am getting old. I do remember Pensacola. Klass did pay me $1,000.00 for proving him wrong about the typeface on the Cutler Twining memo. He got very upset when I included a copy of his check in my Final Report on Operation Majestic 12. He often used to make $ offers with loads of kickers .
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: Real Men Choose C! From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:53:39 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:18:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Real Men Choose C! >Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:38:03 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Real Men Choose C! >Alien beings from a highly advanced society visit the earth. You >are the first human they have encountered and as a token of >inter-galactic friendship they present you with a small but >incredibly sophisticated device that is capable of curing all >diseases, provide an infinite supply of clean energy, wipe out >hunger, and permanently eliminate oppression and violence. What >would you do with it? >A. Present it to the Prime Minister >B. Present it to the Secretary General of the United Nations. >C. Take it apart to what makes it tick. You left out: D. Sell it to the highest bidder. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: NBC TV News On Triangle From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:31:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:34:52 -0500 Subject: Re: NBC TV News On Triangle >From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >IUFO Mailing List >NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft !!! >From: ranger116@webtv.net (Thomas Buyea) >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:12:25 -0500 (EST) >Subject: IUFO: NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft !!! >->IUFOMailing List >Peter Lawyer >And the rest of the GANG >Did anyone see the 6 PM NBC Network TV NEWS ?? !! on Nov.19 >I was listening to it on my car radio ( Yes any FM Broadcast >Radio, when tuned down to the lowest freq. 87.7 MHZ, will tune >in the audio of TV Ch.6 (the NBC affiliatehere in Miami). They >had a short news story about a NASA or US Air Force Unmanned >remote control Flying Wing with a wingspan off two hundred and >twenty feet and capable of flying at 100,000 + feet to study the >atmosphere. I wonder if it is BLACK? Did anyone see this story >and did they show a picture of it ? >TomMIami,Fla.Ufologist For information on the plane that I believe you are talking about is available at http://www.msnbc.com/news/216567.asp [go to the web site for the graphics related to the story below] THE CENTURION, as the aircraft is called, is a 206-foot-long flying wing that runs on solar power. Extremely lightweight, the unmanned plane is propelled by 14 electric motors, each about as powerful as a hair dryer. Unveiled for its first public flight Thursday, the aircraft reached an altitude of just 300 feet, but it is designed to fly at extraordinary altitudes. Project engineers hope to complete a record-breaking 100,000-foot flight by 2000. What we=92ve got here is something that revolutionizes flight, and the reason it=92s so important to get it into the marketplace is, these kinds of airplanes can solve real problems," says Karen Robbins of the American Technologies Alliance. The Centurion is the latest in a long line of solar-powered aircraft commissioned by the U.S. government. Originally intended as top-secret spy planes, the planes are now being developed as low-cost alternatives to satellites. A Centurion-like aircraft could circle over a city, collect weather information and transmit pager and cell phone data for extended periods of time. With rechargeable batteries that could store energy overnight, a solar-powered plane could remain on station indefinitely. The solar technology to achieve that goal has not been developed yet -- and the Centurion made its flight Thursday with the assistance of batteries, but project engineers were happy with its performance. "I don=92t think it=92s luck or anything like that. This plane flies as well as expected, I=92m not exaggerating," said John Del Frate, the NASA project director. Given the altitude that this craft is eventually expected to fly, and its slow speed, it will be interesting to see if it really does generate very many UFO reports. As long as we're on the subject of technology developments, there was another very interesting report on ABC News regarding a new plane that will make world travel much faster: http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/hypersoar981119.html [go to the web page for the graphics associated with the story below] Jack Smith ABCNEWS.com Nov. 19 -- Recently, The Economist magazine named the jet airliner as one of the major innovations of the 20th century. High-speed transcontinental flight, the magazine=92s editors said, has transformed the way people live, work and understand their world. Well, imagine flying from New York to Tokyo in just under two hours. How about Paris in 45 minutes? Or D.C. to L.A. in half an hour? Even pilots flying today=92s supersonic Concord at twice the speed of sound cannot come anywhere close to that. But soon there will be a plane, unlike any other ever designed, that can. Called "Hypersoar," this plane would travel 10 times the speed of sound -- nearly 7,000 miles per hour. It=92s in the design stages now, with a prototype expected out in three to five years. This is a revolution in transportation, in global transportation," says Mark Eckart of Livermore Labs, in California, where the plane is being designed. Surfing the Atmosphere In general, these airplanes have to be very, very slender, with very sharp leading edges that give it very little drag so that it can slice through the air at high speeds," says professor Mark Lewis of the University of Maryland. "That means those leading edges will get hot, but we have materials now that can handle those temperatures." The secret to Hypersoar=92s performance is that it spends most of its time in space, at 130,000 feet, skipping over the atmosphere. That=92s right: skipping, just the way a stone skips over a lake. "You get an enormous lifting effect from skipping across the lake. And if you could burn -- if you could somehow give some propulsion every time you skipped -- then you would be able to go completely across the lake with very little energy," says professor Darryll Pines, also of the University of Maryland. That=92s what Hypersoar will do. Because it will fly through space, it won=92t overheat; and because it will use its engine only every two minutes to keep its "skip" going, it will use much less fuel than conventional jets. The engine prototype being tested is part rocket (for gaining altitude), and part jet (for skipping). Similar to the engine on the SR-71 spy plane, it=92s exceptionally efficient. The efficiency of this aircraft will pay off, as Hypersoar designer Preston Carter notes: "A Hypersoar vehicle will be able to carry payload and passengers at one-fifth the cost of today=92s airliners." The Swing of It Passengers, however, might find the roller-coaster motion unsettling: 1=BD times the force of gravity with every skip. "If you think about the thrill of a large swing, a child=92s swing," says Eckart, "1=BD Gs is what you feel at the bottom of the swing." Hypersoar is expected to find its first use replacing today=92s Air Force bombers. It could also carry satellites into space, and, of course, ordinary freight. "Federal Express=92s motto could change," says Lewis, "from =91when it absolutely has to be there overnight,=92 to =91when it absolutely has to be there in two hours!=92" Just to be fair to CBS, I'll point out that they have a story on their web page related to the first US launch of materials for the new "Space Station".That story can be found at: http://www.cbs.com/navbar/news.html Hope this is of interest.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:32:59 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:59:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:14:41 -0500 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> <snip> This was Cooper's reply. **************** Begin copy text ****************** Re: For release: Will Cooper "show us the Majesty?" Author: harvest Email:harvest@harvest-trust.org Date:1998/11/16 Forums:alt.conspiracy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Uplink679 wrote in message <19981116081800.02818.00002083 >@ng71.aol.com>... For Immediate Release >Another large "boom" is going to be heard 54 years later >on December 7th, but this time it will be in the Northeastern >corner of Arizona. What's in the Northeastern corner of Arizona? I sure don't live there. And nothing of any note will happen on December 7th... nothing whatsoever. >William Cooper, a decorated veteran of the Vietnam Conflict, >has hosted a self financed short-wave radio show called "The >Hour Of The Time" since 1992. A competent investigator would have discovered that the "Hour Of The Time" was backed by several MAJOR sponsors over the years. The one who is responsible for contributing most of the airtime and satellite time payments was Swiss America Trading. I suggest more lessons in investigative and research techniques. >Over the years, Mr. Cooper has gathered a following of people, >mostly patriots, many young and ambitious, who answer to his >beckon call about the "New World Order" spectre. I have intelligent listeners... not followers. My admonition to all is to, "listen to everyone, read everything, believe absolutely nothing unless you can prove it in your own research. And never worship a leader... if you do you will never know when you have been deceived. There is no one camped out around my home. There is no following. And by the way... most so-called "patriots" haven't got any more brains than the average sheople. >Recently, after his failed prediction that the Stock Market >would dip 2,500 points by October 24th (the Dow is still >higher than it was in January), overall interest in his >message has waned. My prediction was made in May of 1997 when I predicted that the Dow Jones Industrial Average would crash falling over 500 points on October 24, 1997. I further predicted that it would signal the beginning of a worldwide economic crash that would take about a year to cause major ripples on the New York Stock Exchange. I predicted the worldwide economic crash would begin in Hong Kong and spread throughout Asia and then to the rest of the world. All of my predictions were fulfilled exactly as I gave them with 100% accuracy. In July 98 when the DOW was at 9370 I predicted that the DOW would crash falling 2500 points on or before October 25, 1998. The Dow did crash and fell a little over 1900 points within a month and a half. While it did not reach my prediction of 2500 points I was absolutely accurate on everything else. No one else in history has ever maintained this degree of accuracy in predicting future world and economic events. No one whomsoever... Those who listened to me made a hell of a lot of money. Our radio audience grows daily and we have consistently scored 20,000 hits on our website each and every day. In fact a quick check of our website statistics page shows that interest in my message has never waned but in fact is gaining new supporters every day. Since August of 1997 we have gone from 5,000 visitors on our website to over 4,560,000 as of today. >Despite the fact that many cannot >hear Mr. Cooper's show due to poor selection of program >carriers, he trudges onward in hopes that he can convert yet >another of the "sheople". Our broadcast is on clear channel WBCQ 7.415 Monday through Thursday nights at 9 eastern time and on many low power FM stations around the world. You can also hear it on the Internet... go to http://harvest-trust.org/hott.htm for the websites that carry the "Hour Of The Time" and give it a listen... or tune in to shortwave as listed above and see for yourself whether or not you can hear it. >On December 7th, 1998, two very well known media >personalities, one in television and the other with a syndicated >radio program (Hint: It's not Art Bell of UFO fame), will >simultaneously run a story about Mr. Cooper, and then >make an open offer to him to release any or all of the supposedly >top secret document called "Majesty Twelve", in print, to any >media outlet of his choice, before the end of the year. Don't hold your breath on the above BS... if it happened it would confirm that I am hurting the powers that are bent on world government. But it won't happen simply because their policy is to ignore anyone who tells the truth and deny us publicity. >Majesty Twelve is the core of Mr. Cooper's entire >message. In it, he claims, lies the plan to create a "one >world, totalitarian, socialist goverenment". Mr. Cooper >claims to have privied access to this document while >sustaining a compartmentalized clearance in the US Navy. This person demonstrates an amazing lack of ability to read and understand the english language. Our website http://harvest-trust.org/majestyt.htm clearly states that the name of the plan is not Majesty Twelve. The rest of the preceeding paragraph is true. >The names of the personalities are held for the moment >to reduce a premature media blitz from Mr. Cooper and >his group. The names of the personalities are held up because it is a lie.... just like the alien landing supposed to take place on December 7th, which is promoted by the frauds known as Art Bell, Richard Hoaxland, and Peter Gersten. And since establishment media is denied me I couldn't produce a media blitz if my life depended on it and you all know it. >"We have to do this..Must do it," said one of the media >personalities. "Bill has shoveled forward truckloads of >supposed "proof" about this "conspiracy" but has yet to >publish the actual document that got him started in the first >place. That's because I do not have any document named "Majesty Twelve," and have never claimed to have any such document. In fact I have never claimed to have any classified documents whatsoever in my possession. >We ran an FOIA query using the words "majesty" and >"twelve". No blood drained from anybody's face. What we >did find, we will air on the program (on Dec. 7th). It will be >amusing at best. Stay tuned." You didn't run any FOIA query whatsoever. FOIA queries are not "run" they are submitted and are most always denied, appealed, denied, and then you must file a lawsuit to get what you are after especially if the powers that be do not wish you to have it. But first you must, in order to even hope to produce anything, including blood draining from anyones face, file for something that exists. Nothing of which I am aware exists under the name "majesty" or "twelve" or "majesty twelve" or "Majesty Twelve," and any such search will turn up only chuckles and failure. If you found anything it would indeed be very amusing.... even laughable. And you would be, as you already are, the butt of the joke. You also have to cite the database where the information is contained when submitting an FOIA request and you must know all the criteria for access. I explained clearly at http://harvest-trust.org/majestyt.htm that the major key to access is a Top Secret Q (SCI) clearance and the name of the exact type font and size of the real name of the plan. Without it you would never get anything... not even blood drained faces. If this person was actually serious about any of this BS he/she would have really studied what I wrote and would know all of the above. Incompetence is clearly evident. >"The term 'sheople' or 'sheep' when referring to the general >populace is nothing new. Many Vietnam vets view the >world this way, as a result of their bad treatment upon >returning home from an unpopular war. I have never in my life heard any Vietnam vet refer to the world or anyone in it for any reason whatsoever having anything to do with the Vietnam war. Nor is your assessment of the "treatment" of Vietname vets accurate. Most of us were treated very well and have no beef about anything but those who would not allow us to fight properly and WIN. >Mr. Cooper is no exception to this feeling of bitterness >towards the world. I for one can empathize with that >feeling because I felt the same way after rotating home in >75." Mr. Cooper has no bitterness towards the world. Speak for yourself... and it is your admitted bitterness which is showing in this diatribe. >"It's no secret that the world's most powerful people are >engaged in a Luciferian religion. Take a tour of the George >Eastman house in Upstate New York, for example. You >will see goat foot ash trays everywhere. Pyramidal >buildings are being erected all over the place. Why? I'll >tell you...The real reason is that the human mind is not >designed to handle excessive amounts of power and money. >Take the humility away and you take belief on God away. >The feeling prevades that "I did this all myself...Where was >God the whole time?" >These CEO's, bankers, traders, an intellectuals become easy >prey for the mystical cults of Luciferianism and it's inert >doctrines, where "they" become "God" in and of their own >right. The word for this phenomenon is "apotheosis". >The Luciferian cult, I can assure you, is in fact widespread, >even to the churches." You haven't got the slightest clue. >The prediction is that William Cooper will not publish >is "Majesty Twelve" document because there is most >likely no such document in existence. Once asked in >front of the world to "show us the Majesty!", he will >either have to produce it or be exposed as a massive >phony carnival barker. I have never seen or discussed or written about anything called "Majesty Twelve". No one can produce any such document because no such document has existed or does exist by that name of which I am aware. Good luck on your search... >On December 7th, William Cooper will become a >houshold name. Even if what you say were true, and it is not, very few people would be listening. I would not in your wildest dreams become a houshold name. Not even Rush Limbaugh, who has about 30 million listeners, is a houshold name. Whatever child wrote this needs instruction in investigative techniques, instruction in research methods, a remedial reading class, and instruction from his/her mother on the possible repercussions as a consequence of telling lies. William Cooper Host, Hour Of The Time Please tune in or visit our website at http://harvest-trust.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:32:59 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:43:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:14:41 -0500 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: Cooper, Hoagland and December 7th >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> <snip> This was Cooper's reply. **************** Begin copy text ****************** Re: For release: Will Cooper "show us the Majesty?" Author: harvest Email:harvest@harvest-trust.org Date:1998/11/16 Forums:alt.conspiracy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Uplink679 wrote in message <19981116081800.02818.00002083 >@ng71.aol.com>... For Immediate Release >Another large "boom" is going to be heard 54 years later >on December 7th, but this time it will be in the Northeastern >corner of Arizona. What's in the Northeastern corner of Arizona? I sure don't live there. And nothing of any note will happen on December 7th... nothing whatsoever. >William Cooper, a decorated veteran of the Vietnam Conflict, >has hosted a self financed short-wave radio show called "The >Hour Of The Time" since 1992. A competent investigator would have discovered that the "Hour Of The Time" was backed by several MAJOR sponsors over the years. The one who is responsible for contributing most of the airtime and satellite time payments was Swiss America Trading. I suggest more lessons in investigative and research techniques. >Over the years, Mr. Cooper has gathered a following of people, >mostly patriots, many young and ambitious, who answer to his >beckon call about the "New World Order" spectre. I have intelligent listeners... not followers. My admonition to all is to, "listen to everyone, read everything, believe absolutely nothing unless you can prove it in your own research. And never worship a leader... if you do you will never know when you have been deceived. There is no one camped out around my home. There is no following. And by the way... most so-called "patriots" haven't got any more brains than the average sheople. >Recently, after his failed prediction that the Stock Market >would dip 2,500 points by October 24th (the Dow is still >higher than it was in January), overall interest in his >message has waned. My prediction was made in May of 1997 when I predicted that the Dow Jones Industrial Average would crash falling over 500 points on October 24, 1997. I further predicted that it would signal the beginning of a worldwide economic crash that would take about a year to cause major ripples on the New York Stock Exchange. I predicted the worldwide economic crash would begin in Hong Kong and spread throughout Asia and then to the rest of the world. All of my predictions were fulfilled exactly as I gave them with 100% accuracy. In July 98 when the DOW was at 9370 I predicted that the DOW would crash falling 2500 points on or before October 25, 1998. The Dow did crash and fell a little over 1900 points within a month and a half. While it did not reach my prediction of 2500 points I was absolutely accurate on everything else. No one else in history has ever maintained this degree of accuracy in predicting future world and economic events. No one whomsoever... Those who listened to me made a hell of a lot of money. Our radio audience grows daily and we have consistently scored 20,000 hits on our website each and every day. In fact a quick check of our website statistics page shows that interest in my message has never waned but in fact is gaining new supporters every day. Since August of 1997 we have gone from 5,000 visitors on our website to over 4,560,000 as of today. >Despite the fact that many cannot >hear Mr. Cooper's show due to poor selection of program >carriers, he trudges onward in hopes that he can convert yet >another of the "sheople". Our broadcast is on clear channel WBCQ 7.415 Monday through Thursday nights at 9 eastern time and on many low power FM stations around the world. You can also hear it on the Internet... go to http://harvest-trust.org/hott.htm for the websites that carry the "Hour Of The Time" and give it a listen... or tune in to shortwave as listed above and see for yourself whether or not you can hear it. >On December 7th, 1998, two very well known media >personalities, one in television and the other with a syndicated >radio program (Hint: It's not Art Bell of UFO fame), will >simultaneously run a story about Mr. Cooper, and then >make an open offer to him to release any or all of the supposedly >top secret document called "Majesty Twelve", in print, to any >media outlet of his choice, before the end of the year. Don't hold your breath on the above BS... if it happened it would confirm that I am hurting the powers that are bent on world government. But it won't happen simply because their policy is to ignore anyone who tells the truth and deny us publicity. >Majesty Twelve is the core of Mr. Cooper's entire >message. In it, he claims, lies the plan to create a "one >world, totalitarian, socialist goverenment". Mr. Cooper >claims to have privied access to this document while >sustaining a compartmentalized clearance in the US Navy. This person demonstrates an amazing lack of ability to read and understand the english language. Our website http://harvest-trust.org/majestyt.htm clearly states that the name of the plan is not Majesty Twelve. The rest of the preceeding paragraph is true. >The names of the personalities are held for the moment >to reduce a premature media blitz from Mr. Cooper and >his group. The names of the personalities are held up because it is a lie.... just like the alien landing supposed to take place on December 7th, which is promoted by the frauds known as Art Bell, Richard Hoaxland, and Peter Gersten. And since establishment media is denied me I couldn't produce a media blitz if my life depended on it and you all know it. >"We have to do this..Must do it," said one of the media >personalities. "Bill has shoveled forward truckloads of >supposed "proof" about this "conspiracy" but has yet to >publish the actual document that got him started in the first >place. That's because I do not have any document named "Majesty Twelve," and have never claimed to have any such document. In fact I have never claimed to have any classified documents whatsoever in my possession. >We ran an FOIA query using the words "majesty" and >"twelve". No blood drained from anybody's face. What we >did find, we will air on the program (on Dec. 7th). It will be >amusing at best. Stay tuned." You didn't run any FOIA query whatsoever. FOIA queries are not "run" they are submitted and are most always denied, appealed, denied, and then you must file a lawsuit to get what you are after especially if the powers that be do not wish you to have it. But first you must, in order to even hope to produce anything, including blood draining from anyones face, file for something that exists. Nothing of which I am aware exists under the name "majesty" or "twelve" or "majesty twelve" or "Majesty Twelve," and any such search will turn up only chuckles and failure. If you found anything it would indeed be very amusing.... even laughable. And you would be, as you already are, the butt of the joke. You also have to cite the database where the information is contained when submitting an FOIA request and you must know all the criteria for access. I explained clearly at http://harvest-trust.org/majestyt.htm that the major key to access is a Top Secret Q (SCI) clearance and the name of the exact type font and size of the real name of the plan. Without it you would never get anything... not even blood drained faces. If this person was actually serious about any of this BS he/she would have really studied what I wrote and would know all of the above. Incompetence is clearly evident. >"The term 'sheople' or 'sheep' when referring to the general >populace is nothing new. Many Vietnam vets view the >world this way, as a result of their bad treatment upon >returning home from an unpopular war. I have never in my life heard any Vietnam vet refer to the world or anyone in it for any reason whatsoever having anything to do with the Vietnam war. Nor is your assessment of the "treatment" of Vietname vets accurate. Most of us were treated very well and have no beef about anything but those who would not allow us to fight properly and WIN. >Mr. Cooper is no exception to this feeling of bitterness >towards the world. I for one can empathize with that >feeling because I felt the same way after rotating home in >75." Mr. Cooper has no bitterness towards the world. Speak for yourself... and it is your admitted bitterness which is showing in this diatribe. >"It's no secret that the world's most powerful people are >engaged in a Luciferian religion. Take a tour of the George >Eastman house in Upstate New York, for example. You >will see goat foot ash trays everywhere. Pyramidal >buildings are being erected all over the place. Why? I'll >tell you...The real reason is that the human mind is not >designed to handle excessive amounts of power and money. >Take the humility away and you take belief on God away. >The feeling prevades that "I did this all myself...Where was >God the whole time?" >These CEO's, bankers, traders, an intellectuals become easy >prey for the mystical cults of Luciferianism and it's inert >doctrines, where "they" become "God" in and of their own >right. The word for this phenomenon is "apotheosis". >The Luciferian cult, I can assure you, is in fact widespread, >even to the churches." You haven't got the slightest clue. >The prediction is that William Cooper will not publish >is "Majesty Twelve" document because there is most >likely no such document in existence. Once asked in >front of the world to "show us the Majesty!", he will >either have to produce it or be exposed as a massive >phony carnival barker. I have never seen or discussed or written about anything called "Majesty Twelve". No one can produce any such document because no such document has existed or does exist by that name of which I am aware. Good luck on your search... >On December 7th, William Cooper will become a >houshold name. Even if what you say were true, and it is not, very few people would be listening. I would not in your wildest dreams become a houshold name. Not even Rush Limbaugh, who has about 30 million listeners, is a houshold name. Whatever child wrote this needs instruction in investigative techniques, instruction in research methods, a remedial reading class, and instruction from his/her mother on the possible repercussions as a consequence of telling lies. William Cooper Host, Hour Of The Time Please tune in or visit our website at http://harvest-trust.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Subterranean Base-ic Blues [was: ...Info? On From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:40:35 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:56:17 -0500 Subject: Subterranean Base-ic Blues [was: ...Info? On >From: "Lynda Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:52:48 -0000 <snip> >It seems to me that the whole thing involving Doty set up a host >of myths and disinformation which formed the basis of much >current Ufology; the idea in hidden underground bases, >abductions and breeding programmes, the big secret (MJ-12) and >more. <snip> There was a time when the US government seemed obsessed with 'burrowing'. For instance, I used to work three floors down underground in the Pentagon... It was _so_secure_ there that I could leave Top Secret documents on the desk and go to lunch! There were so many security cameras in place that this was _not_ a problem. I have been in a number of other subterranean tunnels under military bases that are never identified. Some are pictured -- like we were at Vandenberg AFB last week-end for a conference. Their base brochures picture some of the Titan missile support 'railroads' that run underground there. Some of these actually are quite old -- our old coast artillery bases dating back to WWI -- like Fort MacArthur in LA and Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn -- had honeycombs of tunnels under them. Quite useful. I used to teach in an underground classroom at Fort MacArthur! So that is NOT a NEW idea!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' From: Michael Lindemann <CNINews1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:38:30 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:06:04 -0500 Subject: Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:31:40 +0100 >Subject: NBC TV News On Triangle >Source: IUFO mailing list, November 20, >http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/media/mailing/archive/iufo/msg01021.shtml >Stig > >******* >IUFO Mailing List >NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft !!! >From: ranger116@webtv.net (Thomas Buyea) >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:12:25 -0500 (EST) >Subject: IUFO: NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft !!! <snip> All, I have seen a report on CNN about the new NASA aircraft referred to above. This is an experimental, unmanned flying wing of very strange design. It is, I believe, approximately 200 feet from wingtip to wingtip. The wing is straight and narrow -- probably about ten feet front to back. The craft has no body. It is propeller driven with a large number (more than a dozen) small propellers. It flies at a speed of just 20 miles per hour but can reach an altitude of 100,000 feet. It is mostly silver and white in color. It bears no resemblance whatsoever to a "black triangle." Watch CNN today and you'll probably see pictures of it. Best regards, Michael Lindemann
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 God, the Universe, and Everything... From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:49:14 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:15:39 -0500 Subject: God, the Universe, and Everything... >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:21:50 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Fear of Ancient Science >[List Only] >>From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto ><snip> >>Excerpted from: >>'Gods Of The New Millennium' >> by >> Alan F. Alford > >>Pages 29-34 >>Copyright =A9 1996 by Alan F. Alford First published in 1996 by >>Eridu Books >>----- >>Published in 1997 by Hodder and Stoughton >>First published in paperback in 1998 by Hodder & Stoughton >>A division of Hodder Headline PLC >>A New English Library paperback >>The right of Alan F. Alford to be identified as the Author of >>the Work has been asserted by him in accordance with the >>Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 10987G54321 >>All rights reserved. >>ISBN 0 340 69613 3 >>Hodder & Stoughton A division of Hodder Headline PLC 338 Euston >>Road London NWl 3BH ><snip> >>The most famous proponent of interventionism is Erich von >>Daniken, whose views in Chariots of the Gods captured the >>imagination of the world's media in 1969. ' Many of us who >>remember those heady days wonder what happened to von Daniken. >>There is a perception that some of his evidence was faked or at >>least in error, but who knows whether this is myth or fact? For >>more than ten years von Daniken appears to have been blacklisted >>by publishers in the UK and USA and until very recently his >>books have appeared only in the German language. >I remember reading my first book by Erich von Daniken in 1972 >while on a chartered bus filled with many amateur astronomers, >myself included, on a long journey east from Toronto to see the >total eclipse of the sun. Although I shared my excitement about >what I was reading with the others on the bus, I recall my >frustration in not being able to find even a single undisputable >item that would convince me and my friends that 'ancient >astronauts' were a fact. Never-the-less, being open minded, we >agreed that if we searched a little harder, we may still find >proof for extraterrestrial visitations in the past. After all, >Carl Sagan thought so... >As for ancient astronauts, after reading a few more of Erich von >Daniken's later books, doing some personal research myself >(including visiting many of the places he described in his >books) and even attending a one of his lectures in Toronto, I >became less and less convinced that he really proved anything of >the sort. It was Erich himself that ruined his credibility with >his many incredible later claims which were never shown to be >true. >>Erich von Daniken's ideas drew an immediate and vicious attack >>from all quarters. Who was orchestrating these attacks? The >>religious establishment -- for obvious reasons -- and the >>scientific experts, with all their entrenched and conservative >>ideas. Who dared to step into the ring and support von Daniken? >>Only the general public in their millions who bought his books >>-- after all, they did not have precious academic careers on the >>line! ><snip> >I strongly disagree here. The 'religious establishment' in fact >demands that there is intelligent life in the heavens above the >Earth and the 'scientific establishment' accepts this as a fact >- we just haven't heard from them yet. The most vicious attacks >on Erich von Daniken came ironically from people who shared his >beliefs but not his evidence, these included ancient astronaut >theory supporters. >Nick Balaskas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> I don't remember when I picked up my first Von Daniken book, however it was quite a number of years ago. Von Daniken may not have had a good deal of scientific evidence, nor did he (in those early books, as I have not read the most recent of them), nor did he have corroboration worthy of a belief system, but he surely did spark my imagination. I truely believe that it was he who helped me to develop an intellect unimpeded by the cynicism I sometimes observe in many lists, including this one. May I remind you all, that science and medicine very often follow fiction. Having said that, I see know reason to beat someone about the head and face because of a theory or belief, merely because it is in direct violation of extant traditional beliefs and theories ... or for that matter, counters you own theories. There is too much cynicism in our world. Dylan wrote, "When you aint got no faith, then you got unbelief..." I do not suggest we believe everyone with a theory, however I do suggest we allow everyone to express them without undue criticism. This is a tough room, UpDates is. There are some who have a great deal to contribute, but often fly away like a UFO being chased by particle beam guns, never to return after being burned beyond recognition by some of our more critical, so called, "Researchers." It is one thing for us (US) to be subjected to the ridicule of the scientific establishment, and even our friends and associates, but to be severely hosed by our own kind, is unconscionable. There is no one on this list, who has the answers to any of the questions related to ufology. No one. You have only a theory. And some of your theories need work, guys (ooh, and girls)... a lotta work. To quote Dylan again, "So when you see your neighbor carrying something, help him with his load. And don't go mistaking paradise, for that home (theory) across the road..." especially if that theory is yours. Eh? I try to use the colonial Canadian "eh!?" as often as possible because I think EBK likes it when members do that. Eh? Errol, I do speak fluent Canadian because I spent a week in Toronto one day. That was a joke.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: _Almost_ Everybody! Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:09:13 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:11:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:19:25 -0200 >Subject: Abduction of Blacks? >Hello everybody, >Today in Brazil is 'Black Consciousness Day'. >I was wondering if anyone had heard of the abduction of somebody >of black skin? > Thiago Ticchetti >* Eles est=E3o aqui * From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Yeah, Barney Hill for starters! Silly question. Bob <<<>>> From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Well, Barney Hill, for one. Jerry Clark <<<>>> From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Received: from KRandle993@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id HOUEa26406 for <updates@globalserve.net>; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:12:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7c13d855.3655bf1a@aol.com> Sure, Barney Hill. KRandle <<<>>> From: Craig Haynie <ccHaynie@ix.netcom.com> Barney Hill was allegedly abducted in 1961, in the first reported abduction case. <<<>>> From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> The Hill Case - of course. <<<>>> From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> Barney Hill, husband to Betty Hill, their story was distilled into a book and movie, called Interupted Journey, Barney was a blackman. <<<>>> Thanks to _all_ our contestants. The deadline for entries has now passed. The adjudicators will now retire to consider their verdict on the neatest and most original entry. The winner will be announced on January 1st, 2000. 1st prize - A fragged copy of 'Behold: A Pail Whore's... '. 2nd prize - An SLP copy of a copy of a copy of any of UPN's 'UFO' programming. 3rd prize - An authentic-repro in full-colour, of 'Everything I About Canajuns, Eh?' by Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 Strange CIA Report on '75 Space Medicine Congress From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:20:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:19:32 -0500 Subject: Strange CIA Report on '75 Space Medicine Congress Hello Errol and List, I have been going thru CIA documents and found the following: **************** DCD report no.: (hard to make out; could be: OO-a-321/00848-76 ) INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS OF SPACE MEDICINE-MEXICO September 1975 US scientists believe that low magnetic fields do not have a serious efffect on astronauts, but high magnetic fields, oscillating magnetic fields, and electromagnetic fields can or do have considerable effect. There is a theory that such fields are closely associated with superconductivity at very low temperature, such as in space. This in turn is related to the possible propulsion system of UFOs. There is a rumor that fragments of a possible UFO found in Brazil bore a relationship to superconductors and magnetohydrodynamics. **************** There are 2 'reports': one is very heavily blacked-out and the other very heavily whited-out. Any feedback on this ?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 20 NASA Aircraft Sets New World Altitude Record From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:10:15 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:27:35 -0500 Subject: NASA Aircraft Sets New World Altitude Record Michael Braukus Headquarters, Washington, DC November 20, 1998 (Phone: 202/358-1979) Kirsten Williams Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA (Phone: 805/258-2662) Ron Lindeke Lockheed Martin Skunk Works, Palmdale, CA (Phone: 805/572-4153) RELEASE: 98-210 NASA AIRCRAFT SETS NEW WORLD ALTITUDE RECORD A NASA ER-2 aircraft set a new world altitude record for medium weight aircraft on Nov. 19, 1998, reaching 68,700 feet, almost twice the cruising altitude of most airliners. The new world record was made by an ER-2, tail number 806, based at NASA's Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA, and occurred during an airborne science mission to measure different components in the atmosphere, such as water, ozone and other atmospheric particles. The new record surpassed the old record of 62,500 feet, which was flown by a Canadian P-42 aircraft in 1988. The record was for the aircraft medium weight class of 26,455 to 35,274 pounds at takeoff. This record flight was not the first time the ER-2 has achieved such a high altitude. The aircraft, a close relative of the U.S. Air Force U-2, routinely operates between 65,000 and 70,000 feet. But this is the first time the ER-2's performance has been documented and made public. "This flight had two purposes," said Dryden ER-2 pilot Jim Barrilleaux, who flew this historic mission. "The science goal is the principle reason we flew the aircraft. But achieving the world altitude record verifies all of the outstanding efforts by the people who have worked on the NASA ER-2s and U-2s throughout the years -- designers, builders, operators, maintainers and scientists. This flight provides public acknowledgment of their good work. I personally feel that I am doing this on their behalf and in their honor." An official from the National Aeronautics Association (NAA) observed the record-setting event and will process the formal certification with the Federal Aeronautique Internationale (FAI). The FAI is the international organization responsible for the coordination of competition and certification of all world aviation records. The NAA, as the U.S. representative of the FAI, is responsible for coordination and certification of all aviation records in the United States. NASA owns and operates two ER-2 aircraft for its Airborne Science Program. Built by the Lockheed Martin Skunk Works, the aircraft collect information about our surroundings, including Earth resources, celestial observations, atmospheric chemistry and dynamics and oceanic processes. The aircraft also are used for electronic sensor research and development, satellite calibration and satellite data validation. A NASA ER-2 recently concluded a six-week hurricane study originating from Patrick Air Force Base, FL, designed to improve scientists' ability to forecast, track and measure the intensity of hurricanes. As part of the mission, the ER-2 flew above Hurricane Bonnie, collecting valuable information that could ultimately save lives and money. Program History In 1981, NASA acquired its first ER-2 aircraft. The agency obtained a second ER-2 in 1989. These airplanes replaced two Lockheed U-2 aircraft, which NASA had used to collect science data since 1971. The U-2s, and later the ER-2s, were based at NASA's Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA, until 1997, at which time the ER-2 aircraft and their operations moved to Dryden. Since the program's inaugural flight on Aug. 31, 1971, NASA U-2s and ER-2s have flown over 4,000 data missions and test flights in support of scientific research conducted by scientists from NASA, other government agencies, universities and the private sector. ER-2 Capabilities For most missions, the ER-2 operates at altitudes between 65,000 and 70,000 feet. Depending on aircraft weight, the ER-2 reaches a cruise altitude of 65,000 feet within twenty minutes. Typical cruise speed is 470 miles per hour. The range for a normal six-hour mission is approximately 2,500 miles, which yields five hours of data collection at high altitude. The aircraft is capable of longer missions of more than eight hours and ranges of more than 3,400 miles. The ER-2 can carry a maximum payload of 2,600 pounds, distributed in the equipment bay, nose area and wing pods. -end- * * * NASA press releases and other information are available automatically by sending an Internet electronic mail message to domo@hq.nasa.gov. In the body of the message (not the subject line) users should type the words "subscribe press-release" (no quotes). The system will reply with a confirmation via E-mail of each subscription. A second automatic message will include additional information on the service. NASA releases also are available via CompuServe using the command GO NASA. To unsubscribe from this mailing list, address an E-mail message to domo@hq.nasa.gov, leave the subject blank, and type only "unsubscribe press-release" (no quotes) in the body of the message.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Abduction of Blacks? From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:30:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:36:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? >Hello everybody, >Today in Brazil is 'Black Consciousness Day'. >I was wondering if anyone had heard of the abduction of somebody >of black skin? > Thiago Ticchetti >* Eles est=E3o aqui * Here in the US, there are African-American abductees. I've known a couple. Also gay men and women, Catholics, Orthodox Jews, you name it. Whatever the abduction phenomenon is, it doesn't spare anyone because of their race. My impression, though, is that the percentage of black abductees is lower than the percentage of black people in the general population. My guess is that blacks as a rule are less likely to report an abduction experience to a largely white world of abductees and abduction researchers. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Real Men Choose C! From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:26:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:37:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Real Men Choose C! >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:53:39 -0500 (EST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Real Men Choose C! >>Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:38:03 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >>Subject: Real Men Choose C! >>Alien beings from a highly advanced society visit the earth. You >>are the first human they have encountered and as a token of >>inter-galactic friendship they present you with a small but >>incredibly sophisticated device that is capable of curing all >>diseases, provide an infinite supply of clean energy, wipe out >>hunger, and permanently eliminate oppression and violence. What >>would you do with it? > >>A. Present it to the Prime Minister >>B. Present it to the Secretary General of the United Nations. >>C. Take it apart to what makes it tick. > >You left out: >D. Sell it to the highest bidder. >Bob E. Try the device on the aliens (trust no one!). Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: God, the Universe, and Everything... From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:50:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:50:53 -0500 Subject: Re: God, the Universe, and Everything... >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:49:14 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Theory on the meaning of God, the Universe, and Everything..... >>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:21:50 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Fear of Ancient Science <snip> >There is too much cynicism in our world. Dylan wrote, "When >you aint got no faith, then you got unbelief..."Eh? Jim (just >checking on EBK) <snip> >To quote Dylan again, "So when you see your neighbor carrying >something, help him with his load. And don't go mistaking >paradise, for that home (theory) across the road..." especially >if that theory is yours. Eh? Eh? Jim (just checking on EBK) About old rock hits citations, my favorite is: "Confusion will be my epitaph As I crawl a cracked and broken path If we make it, we can all sit back and laugh But I feel tomorrow I'll be crying" from The Court of the Crimson King (King Crimson album circa 1972) The good thing about this is that any body any where can use it: a vegetarian in a McDonald's, a UFO buff in a skeptic convention. You name it. <G> Serge
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Flying V Sighted over Tampa, Florida From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:23:25 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:59:35 -0500 Subject: Flying V Sighted over Tampa, Florida Received via "alt.paranet.ufo" On November 20 at 14.37 (GMT + 1 hour). Stig ******* Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:25:49 -0500 From: "Jason Overholser" <jasono@totalufo.net> Subject: Flying V Sighted over Tampa, Fl. On November 17, 1998 at about 4:30am a flying V was spotted by numerous people on the night of the meteor shower. It was described as being about 500 ft wide, traveling very fast at about 10,00o ft.. "It looked almost as if it were translucent and made absolutely no sound" said one witness who supposedly took photos of the craft. Sources say that it had no lights on it and feel that it would not have been seen if so many people hadn't been watching the meteor shower that night. If I can find anybody with pictures of the craft, I will post them on my website at www.totalufo.net which is still under construction. jasono@totalufo.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Tim Brigham <devilsad@ksinc.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:54:39 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:21:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:09:13 -0500 (EST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: _Almost_ Everybody! >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Abduction of Blacks? >>From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:19:25 -0200 >>Subject: Abduction of Blacks? >>Hello everybody, >>Today in Brazil is 'Black Consciousness Day'. >>I was wondering if anyone had heard of the abduction of somebody >>of black skin? >>Thiago Ticchetti >>* Eles est=E3o aqui * Not a "silly question" at all in my opinion, regardless of how others commented, it brings up an interesting issue. I'm sure many have noted that most goers of UFO conventions are caucasian (disproportionately so, it would seem), and informal survey of literature would seem to suggest that abductions are reported almost exclusively by caucasians, at least in the American literature. Sure, there are exceptions, but the (apparent) lack of representation among ethnic groups in American abduction reports is something which I've noticed. An uncountable number of reasons probably play into this, if my perceptions are actually correct at all. This is one I'd like to see Martin Kottmeyer probe (pun highly intended). Anyone else have comments on what seems to be an amazingly ignored aspect of the (abduction) phenomenon? Best, Tim Brigham )+( www.ksinc.net/~devilsad/ufo.htm The Devil's Advocate www.ksinc.net/~devilsad/ring.htm Operation MindPhuck )+(
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Strange CIA Report on '75 Space Medicine From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:44:24 -0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:24:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Strange CIA Report on '75 Space Medicine >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >Subject: Strange CIA report on 1975 Space Medicine Congress in Mexico >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:20:00 -0500 >Hello Errol and List, >I have been going thru CIA documents and found the following: >**************** >DCD report no.: (hard to make out; could be: OO-a-321/00848-76 ) >INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS OF SPACE MEDICINE-MEXICO >September 1975 >US scientists believe that low magnetic fields do not have a >serious efffect on astronauts, but high magnetic fields, >oscillating magnetic fields, and electromagnetic fields can or >do have considerable effect. There is a theory that such fields >are closely associated with superconductivity at very low >temperature, such as in space. This in turn is related to the >possible propulsion system of UFOs. There is a rumor that >fragments of a possible UFO found in Brazil bore a relationship >to superconductors and magnetohydrodynamics. >**************** >There are 2 'reports': one is very heavily blacked-out and the >other very heavily whited-out. >Any feedback on this ? Yes, is the Case Ubatuba. Fishing had told to have seen an object on the ocean that seemed to be with problems and then it started to defragment and some pieces fallen on its boat killing until its dog, and other pieces fallen down on the beach. Thiago Ticchetti * Eles est=E3o aqui * ICQ - 22841973
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:05:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:21:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:09:13 -0500 (EST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: _Almost_ Everybody! >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Abduction of Blacks? >>From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:19:25 -0200 >>Subject: Abduction of Blacks? >>Hello everybody, <snip> >Thanks to _all_ our contestants. The deadline for entries has now >passed. >The adjudicators will now retire to consider their verdict on the >neatest and most original entry. The winner will be announced on >January 1st, 2000. >1st prize - A fragged copy of 'Behold: A Pail Whore's... '. >2nd prize - An SLP copy of a copy of a copy of any of UPN's > 'UFO' programming. >3rd prize - An authentic-repro in full-colour, of 'Everything I > About Canajuns, Eh?' by Jim Mortellaro Those are some great prizes Johnny. Now for the Super-Bonus Score and the all expense paid trip to Kapuskasing, can anyone name another _besides_ Barney Hill? Maybe two? Won't hold my breath over this one... Cheers, R. Goldsmith
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:20:05 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:47:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:07:07 -0800 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale >>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Leonid Meteor Lands In OZ And For Sale >>Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:30:18 PST ><snip> >>To the best of my knowledge it is illegal for people in Oz to >>own meteorite debris and therefore they (we) have no legal right >>to sell them. >>An act of parliament has laid claim to all such objects for the >>purposes of the scientific research and , therefore, for the >>whole community and not just those fortunate enough to find them >>and wanting to make a quick buck. >>These are the "local Considerations". >>Regards, >>Leanne ];-) >Darn, there go my chances of pre-selling mass ownership of that >asteroid heading our way. I guees free is better. Then again, >what are the U.S. laws? >Joshman ===========================================> What are the US laws? You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant. Try setting up a Kiosk just behind the bar. And I hear Alice is some hot number ever since Woodstock III. Woof! Jim Mortellaro, AKA Dr. Jaime Gesundt
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Stan Remembers... [was: ... Info? On 'Branton'] From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:45:01 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:08:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Stan Remembers... [was: ... Info? On 'Branton'] >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Stan Remembers... [was: ... Info? On 'Branton'] >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:43:47 -0400 >>In Pensacola, in 1990, I took a series of photos of you and Phil >>Klass disagreeing over some point and Phil was offering $20 if >>you could prove him wrong...do you remember that? <g> >>We can get back to the other discussion once we get this >>straightened out. <g> >Yes, I do remember that I spoke at Kentucky Wesleyan in >Owensboro. I doubt if it was in the 1960s.. but it doesn't >really matter. Yep, it was in the mid to late 60's, because My friend Jack Murphree moved to Hawaii, shortly after that. >After the first 700 lectures I tend to forget most of the >people I have met at them. People seem disappointed that I >don't recall each individual. >Hey, I am getting old. Aren't we all Stan? <G> >I do remember Pensacola. Klass did pay me $1,000.00 for proving >him wrong about the typeface on the Cutler Twining memo. >He got very upset when I included a copy of his check in my >Final Report on Operation Majestic 12. He often used to make $ >offers with loads of kickers . >STF Yes, but in the series of photographs I have before me, He is holding a $20 bill in his left hand... I remember when he had to pay you the $1000...<g> I found the enteraction between the two of you very amusing...so did the crowd that gathered areound the table. <G> Take care Stan... We will meet again in the not to distant future, and I will remind you of these emails, and you will definitely remember me...<G> REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Australian Meteor For Sale From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 05:31:25 +1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:19:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Australian Meteor For Sale Keith Basterfield Network Australasia tkbnetw@fan.net.au ******************************************* Hi Everyone this is what I found out: RE: Victoria -Kyenton Meteor found Quote: ABC Radio Reporter said, Editor Mr Don Gun of the local Kyneton Newspaper "Midland Express" believes the meteor story to be a Hoax. I also asked The Brisbane Astronomical Club had they heard about any meteor's hitting the ground, they said no and would like me to keep them informed :>) Kyneton 65lkm from Bendigo Kyneton Population 5000 Time 3.10pm today 21st.11.98 I talked to the local Police Seargent in Kyneton and asked if there where any reports of a meteor hitting the ground in his area. He said, quote: "It appears the story is an over-exaggerated hoax." The Seargent said "The only thing that went bang in the night on the 19th were the Kyneton fireworks at the Kyneton Show." Which woke his dog up :>). If you would like more: Tel/ Kyneton Police Station 03 54 221377 If you would like to contact the Sydney Museum Mineral Section that deals with Rocks and things here in Australia. Send your query to the address below and it will be passed on to the appropriate authorities E-mail sand@omsg.aust.gov.au I have passed Mr Ross Dowe's post on to The Australian Sydney Museum, Mineral Section for their comment - waiting to hear from them.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: The Fear of Ancient Science From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:08:53 +1100 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:26:31 -0500 Subject: Re: The Fear of Ancient Science I may share the same surname as Alan F Alford but that is the only similarity we have that I'm aware of. I don't think much of Alan F Alford's two books 'Gods Of The New Millennium', Eridu Books, 1996 and 'The Phoenix Solution - Secrets of a Lost Civilisation', Hodder & Stoughton, 1998. Alan F. Alford tries to piggy-back himself onto Zecharia Sitchin in 'Gods of the New Millennium', and you can see what I and others think of Zecharia Sitchin under the pointer to 'Sitchin's Twelfth Planet' coming off of 'Other Interests' in my www pages at the URL: http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa. Wisely, Alan F Alford ditches Zecharia Sitchin in 'The Phoenix Solution' (see: http://www.eridu.co.uk/eridu/minisites/giza.html which used to praise Zecharia Sitchin) but he earns himself no credit in trying to piggy-back himself onto the radical astronomer Tom Van Flandern who I'm not the only person to have disagreements with. In both books Alan F Alford tries unsuccessfully to rebut what Egyptologists say about the Giza pyramids - see: http://www.dcs.shef.ac.uk/~martins/Pyramid/alford.html Bill Alford googong@interact.net.au http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Strange CIA Report on '75 Space Medicine From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 07:13:33 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:30:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Strange CIA Report on '75 Space Medicine >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >Subject: Strange CIA report on 1975 Space Medicine Congress in Mexico >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:20:00 -0500 >Hello Errol and List, >I have been going thru CIA documents and found the following: >**************** >DCD report no.: (hard to make out; could be: OO-a-321/00848-76 ) >INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS OF SPACE MEDICINE-MEXICO >September 1975 >US scientists believe that low magnetic fields do not have a >serious efffect on astronauts, but high magnetic fields, >oscillating magnetic fields, and electromagnetic fields can or >do have considerable effect. There is a theory that such fields >are closely associated with superconductivity at very low >temperature, such as in space. This in turn is related to the >possible propulsion system of UFOs. There is a rumor that >fragments of a possible UFO found in Brazil bore a relationship >to superconductors and magnetohydrodynamics. >**************** >There are 2 'reports': one is very heavily blacked-out and the >other very heavily whited-out. >Any feedback on this ? >Serge Salvaille The quote is from page 2 of one of the three very heavily censored documents I obtained from the CIA in 1989. I had sought the 23 CIA UFO documents found by the NSA when they did their search for UFO documents in response to the CAUS legal action. . After 35 months they released the first 9 which were press abstracts of Eastern European Newspaper articles about UFOs. I appealed and 2 years later (l989) received very highly censored copes of three, one of which included the given quote.Two years or so ago after the impact of Executive Order 12958 was being felt., I applied for a review of the 13. After a year or so I received 3 more not very interesting ones and exactly the same censored copies of the 3 previously released ones. I have appealed and am awaiting a response. It is a slow process. I tell the story at my lectures as a kind of footnote to the NSA release fiasco now using white out instead of black ink. I usually show a page on which all of 8 words (title, infodate, USSR, etc) can be read.. everything else is blacked out. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 03:37:06 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:37:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] Dear 'Almost Everyone': I didn't realize there was a contest on for originality! I gave the same Barney Hill response as everyone else. But, I forgot to tack on a second question. " Is there a case on record of a Samoan having been abducted?" Best wishes - Larry Hatch = = = = > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:09:13 -0500 (EST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Almost Everybody! > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Abduction of Blacks? > > >From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:19:25 -0200 > >Subject: Abduction of Blacks? > > >Hello everybody, > > >Today in Brazil is 'Black Consciousness Day'. > > >I was wondering if anyone had heard of the abduction of somebody > >of black skin? > > > Thiago Ticchetti > > From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> > Yeah, Barney Hill for starters! > Silly question. > Bob > <<<>>> > > From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > Well, Barney Hill, for one. > Jerry Clark > <<<>>> > > From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> > Sure, Barney Hill. > KRandle > <<<>>> > > From: Craig Haynie <ccHaynie@ix.netcom.com> > Barney Hill was allegedly abducted in 1961, in the first reported > abduction case. > <<<>>> > > From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> > The Hill Case - of course. > <<<>>> > > From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> > Barney Hill, husband to Betty Hill, their story was distilled > into a book and movie, called Interupted Journey ..[snip] > <<<>>> > > Thanks to _all_ our contestants. The deadline for entries has now > passed. > > The adjudicators will now retire to consider their verdict on the > neatest and most original entry. The winner will be announced on > January 1st, 2000. > > 1st prize - A fragged copy of 'Behold: A Pail Whore's... '. > > 2nd prize - An SLP copy of a copy of a copy of any of UPN's > 'UFO' programming. > > 3rd prize - An authentic-repro in full-colour, of 'Everything I > About Canajuns, Eh?' by Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Alfred's Odd Ode #281 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 07:59:13 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:45:54 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #281 Apology to MW #281 (For November 21, 1998) What I'd have is time to _think_, to puzzle, or to ponder on the workings of reality -- its vastness, scope, and wonder! I'd pay the freight (or my fair share) to lever up the rock that's there. I'd know what's hidden deep inside our monumental pile of pride. Too much stuff is hid away -- the taxes that the rich won't pay, the saucers flying high in skies, the black ops of some churlish spies. Cozened by an earnest evil, and driven through the eyes of needles, bred respect-less in our millions, we're used like grease to ease its minions. Them that follow on the heels of those who practice dirty deals. Those that shall not care who pays, so they can fill their days with play. He and she that makes us shriek for fear that we're compelled to speak of what it is that truly dares us, terrifies, or tricks and scares us. A sad ablation cools our spirit, though close to meltdown -- something near it; we won't listen to the wind; we can't see what signs portend. We're so close to what renews us, vast respect from what abused us -- Almost there, we're breathing on it, and we will let it _go_? Be honest! We're harried by our Gods and devils, bamboozled by their priests and heralds. All that's preached (?) -- division, hatred. The least and most? The chosen hated. Those that work to heat the water washing backs of landed daughters languish as the disrespected, left from choice and spurned -- neglected. Poisoned and then yes, infected with the vermin we've protected, wasting our humanities with their vectors, dust and fleas. Confined again by old disease we cower on our callused knees. We drag our gaze to "hallowed" ground, and miss the saucers most profound. Blinded by our jealous cultures (made to order crows and vultures, wishing to reward the few their lack of vision, depth or view) . . .humans are a hapless lot, so unaware of what they've got -- pacing in their shallow graves, and hoping for a bone or raise. Then they get a brand new car (!), forget again exploding stars, forgetting Tuttle comet springs to smash our Earth when next it swings. Forgetting saucers fly our skies, and still they fly (we're so unwise). We pander to convenient Gods made jealous by their heralds cause to keep themselves in unjust power, safe behind rich walls and towers. These the folks who 'killed' John Ford (at least as good as) -- landed lords. Those remaining un-elected, those unseen and not detected. Those producing shadowed blight, those that would preclude our SIGHT -- those that make our schools expensive, prohibitive, or bland -- litigious. Those performing planet sodomy without contention, grace -- dichotomy. Those that sell us out, for dollars -- growing rich for growing squalor. These are what we should decry, disrespect, abhor -- despise. These the devil -- put behind us, priests and judges starve, and blind us! Yes, I'd try to do without the God that Gingrich talked about; I'd trust the future, what it brings if dams do burst and info sings -- so finding out that things much stranger hover there unmasked, endangered -- taking us to higher places we shan't find with rein or traces!!! This is where I'd romp and wander, test my faith, consider, ponder. This is where I'd rather be, autonomous and therefore -- FREE! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Just exactly what they don't want us to have -- time to think. When one thinks, the light comes up -- can't have _that_! Restore John Ford! -- Explore the Alien View! Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ <Updated 12 September> John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at: 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. "Only thin, _very light_ envelopes with a return address will be accepted <g>." ~~~ $225.00 pledged -- $100.00 collected ~~~ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, 'Landing' From: Jack Sargeant <ufo1@juno.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:04:36 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:46:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, 'Landing' >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:30:57 -0600 (CST) >From: Bob Soetebier - bikebob <bikebob@mo.net> >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, "landing" event? Hello the list, and hello Bob... >Regarding the purported Dec. 7, 1998, "landing" event being >predicted by Richard Hoagland (and which, apparently, has sent >Peter Gersten into a Sedona-induced, 'New-Age' "paradigm" >tizzy.): >When Hoagland was on Art Bell early last week, he and Art Bell >joked that they both knew the name of the (purported) location >"north of Phoenix" where the Dec. 7 "landing" event was >suppossed to take place. Art Bell essentially commented that >"someone" at least had a sense of humor since the name (of the >location) had "galactic" significance. (However, neither of them >divulged the name of the location.) >Now, if you look at a map of Arizona, approximately 50 miles >n.w. of Phoenix, AZ, you will find Constellation, AZ. >Constellation is in the hills (Wickenburg Mtns.) about a dozen >miles n.e. of Wickenburg, AZ. (According to my 1994 Gousha Road >Atlas, that's 12 miles of "unimproved" road.) >BTW, Art Bell did ask Hoagland if he was sure of all of this; >that is, if Hoagland's "inside sources" were correct about the >"landing" event, and it's purported "Sampson" code name. >Hoagland's reply was that he wasn't sure of ANY of it. But, >Hoagland did reiterate his claim that he had gotten the info >from "inside sources". >Hoagland came across, though, as if he was convinced that the >predicted Dec. 7 "landing" event would take place. (Wonder how >he's going to work "19.5" into this one! ;) Is R. B. still practicing without a license? ...And did he ever put his infamous hot tub up for sale? (Long time, no talk, Bob.) Jack Sargeant - Fido UFO moderator
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: 'Bill' [Anonimity Granted] <koran@cchat.com> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:05:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:55:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:05:40 -0500 >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:09:13 -0500 (EST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: _Almost_ Everybody! >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Abduction of Blacks? >>>From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:19:25 -0200 >>>Subject: Abduction of Blacks? >>>Hello everybody, ><snip> >>Thanks to _all_ our contestants. The deadline for entries has now >>passed. >>The adjudicators will now retire to consider their verdict on the >>neatest and most original entry. The winner will be announced on >>January 1st, 2000. >>1st prize - A fragged copy of 'Behold: A Pail Whore's... '. >>2nd prize - An SLP copy of a copy of a copy of any of UPN's >> 'UFO' programming. >>3rd prize - An authentic-repro in full-colour, of 'Everything I >> About Canajuns, Eh?' by Jim Mortellaro >Those are some great prizes Johnny. Now for the Super-Bonus >Score and the all expense paid trip to Kapuskasing, can anyone >name another _besides_ Barney Hill? Maybe two? Won't hold my >breath over this one... >Cheers, >R. Goldsmith I can...and I'm no researcher. For all we know, their number could be double any other highly represented group. I'll donate the trip. Sincerely, Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:57:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:57:16 -0500 Subject: Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:15:29 EST To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' >From: Michael Lindemann <CNINews1@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:38:30 EST >Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:06:04 -0500 >Subject: Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' >>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:31:40 +0100 >>Subject: NBC TV News On Triangle >>Source: IUFO mailing list, November 20, >>http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/media/mailing/archive/iufo/msg01021.shtml >>IUFO Mailing List >>NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft !!! >>From: ranger116@webtv.net (Thomas Buyea) >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:12:25 -0500 (EST) >>Subject: IUFO: NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft !!! <snip> >I have seen a report on CNN about the new NASA aircraft referred >to above. This is an experimental, unmanned flying wing of very >strange design. It is, I believe, approximately 200 feet from >wingtip to wingtip. >The wing is straight and narrow -- probably about ten feet front >to back. The craft has no body. It is propeller driven with a >large number (more than a dozen) small propellers. >It flies at a speed of just 20 miles per hour but can reach an >altitude of 100,000 feet. >It is mostly silver and white in color. >It bears no resemblance whatsoever to a "black triangle." Watch >CNN today and you'll probably see pictures of it. >Best regards, >Michael Lindemann >CNI News I'd like to add to what Michael Lindemann said here. The craft is called Pathfinder; it is a fragile, relatively low-tech ultralight very similar to the pedal-powered ultralights of the last decade, propelled by solar-powered electric motors, and consisting largely of clear plastic sheeting stretched over a simple lightweight frame. The straight wing is hinged in four places and flops around a lot like a snake, which apparently gives the whole clumsy, poky thing some stability. It is certainly no triangle and no high performance craft. It's purpose is to fly virtually unattended and slowly at a very high altitude for a very long time. Uses could be things like cell-phone communications and various types of surveillance. Furthermore it is no secret, though it may finally be getting some general press. I was at Dryden Space Flight Center, Edwards AFB last April, and they were showing we, the public, movies and slides of it, along with other of their experimental craft. Part of Dryden's public literature is a handout called The Dryden X-Press, a 4-page newsletter. The one we received is dated October 1997 and includes a photo with caption of the craft, which I've scanned and attached to this post for those who are interested. Again, please note -- basically a very slow 'SaranWrap 'craft and no triangle. How this got hyped into a possible explanation for huge, high-performance black triangles is beyond me. David Rudiak Attached: PATHFIND.jpg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Stan Remembers... From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:49:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:24:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Stan Remembers... >Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:45:01 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Stan Remembers... [was: ... Info? On 'Branton'] >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Stan Remembers... [was: ... Info? On 'Branton'] >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:43:47 -0400 >>>In Pensacola, in 1990, I took a series of photos of you and Phil >>>Klass disagreeing over some point and Phil was offering $20 if >>>you could prove him wrong...do you remember that? <g> >>>We can get back to the other discussion once we get this >>>straightened out. <g> >>Yes, I do remember that I spoke at Kentucky Wesleyan in >>Owensboro. I doubt if it was in the 1960s.. but it doesn't >>really matter. >Yep, it was in the mid to late 60's, because My friend Jack >Murphree moved to Hawaii, shortly after that. >>After the first 700 lectures I tend to forget most of the >>people I have met at them. People seem disappointed that I >>don't recall each individual. >>Hey, I am getting old. >Aren't we all Stan? <G> > >>I do remember Pensacola. Klass did pay me $1,000.00 for proving >>him wrong about the typeface on the Cutler Twining memo. >>He got very upset when I included a copy of his check in my >>Final Report on Operation Majestic 12. He often used to make $ >>offers with loads of kickers . >>STF >Yes, but in the series of photographs I have before me, He is >holding a $20 bill in his left hand... I remember when he had to >pay you the $1000...<g> >I found the enteraction between the two of you very amusing...so >did the crowd that gathered areound the table. <G> >Take care Stan... >We will meet again in the not to distant future, and I will >remind you of these emails, and you will definitely remember >me...<G> >REgards, Mike You are certainly correct that the discussion with Klass about the $1000. was not in Pensacola. The Owensboro talk was definitely after 1970. I didn't give my first talk until 1967. Anyway. I will try to remember these Email. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Australian Meteor For Sale [Stan on Oz Radio] From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:58:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:29:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Australian Meteor For Sale [Stan on Oz Radio] >From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> >To: UFO updates" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Australian Meteor 'Kyneton' >Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 05:31:25 +1000 >Keith Basterfield Network Australasia >tkbnetw@fan.net.au >******************************************* >Hi Everyone this is what I found out: >RE: Victoria -Kyenton Meteor found >Quote: ABC Radio Reporter said, Editor Mr Don Gun of the local >Kyneton Newspaper "Midland Express" believes the meteor story to >be a Hoax. >I also asked The Brisbane Astronomical Club had they heard >about any meteor's hitting the ground, they said no and would >like me to keep them informed :>) >Kyneton 65lkm from Bendigo >Kyneton Population 5000 >Time 3.10pm today 21st.11.98 >I talked to the local Police Seargent in Kyneton and asked if >there where any reports of a meteor hitting the ground in his >area. >He said, quote: "It appears the story is an over-exaggerated >hoax." >The Seargent said "The only thing that went bang in the night on >the 19th were the Kyneton fireworks at the Kyneton Show." Which >woke his dog up :>). If you would like more: Tel/ Kyneton Police >Station 03 54 221377 >If you would like to contact the Sydney Museum Mineral Section >that deals with Rocks and things here in Australia. Send your >query to the address below and it will be passed on to the >appropriate authorities >E-mail sand@omsg.aust.gov.au >I have passed Mr Ross Dowe's post on to The Australian Sydney >Museum, Mineral Section for their comment - waiting to hear from >them. Perhaps our Australian people on this List would like to pass on the fact that I shall be debating with the Executive Officer, Barry Williams, of the Australian Skeptics, on the Andrew Denton Breakfast Show on Triple M between 7 and 7:30am, Monday Morning, Sydney Time. with me, on the telephone live, 4-4:30pm Fredericton Time, Sunday. Glad to get the above input. G'Day mates,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:11:02 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:09:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >From: Tim Brigham <devilsad@ksinc.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:54:39 -0600 >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:09:13 -0500 (EST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: _Almost_ Everybody! >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Abduction of Blacks? >>>From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:19:25 -0200 >>>Subject: Abduction of Blacks? >>>Hello everybody, >>>Today in Brazil is 'Black Consciousness Day'. >>>I was wondering if anyone had heard of the abduction of somebody >>>of black skin? >>>Thiago Ticchetti >>>* Eles est=E3o aqui * >Not a "silly question" at all in my opinion, regardless of how >others commented, it brings up an interesting issue. >I'm sure many have noted that most goers of UFO conventions are >caucasian (disproportionately so, it would seem), and informal >survey of literature would seem to suggest that abductions are >reported almost exclusively by caucasians, at least in the >American literature. >Sure, there are exceptions, but the (apparent) lack of >representation among ethnic groups in American abduction reports >is something which I've noticed. >An uncountable number of reasons probably play into this, if my >perceptions are actually correct at all. This is one I'd like to >see Martin Kottmeyer probe (pun highly intended). >Anyone else have comments on what seems to be an amazingly >ignored aspect of the (abduction) phenomenon? >Best, >Tim Brigham Actually, this is not a new idea. It pops up from time to time, however you are right about the disproportionate number of reports by Orientals, Blacks and the NA Indians, though the latter have enough folklore to perhaps suggest a rich involvement in this area. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 21 Re: Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, 'Landing' From: David Gullick <dgullick@interlog.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:05:35 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:33:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, 'Landing' >Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:30:57 -0600 (CST) >From: Bob Soetebier - bikebob <bikebob@mo.net> >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Constellation, AZ: Dec. 7, 1998, "landing" event? >Regarding the purported Dec. 7, 1998, "landing" event being >predicted by Richard Hoagland (and which, apparently, has sent >Peter Gersten into a Sedona-induced, 'New-Age' "paradigm" >tizzy.): >Now, if you look at a map of Arizona, approximately 50 miles >n.w. of Phoenix, AZ, you will find Constellation, AZ. >Hoagland came across, though, as if he was convinced that the >predicted Dec. 7 "landing" event would take place. (Wonder how >he's going to work "19.5" into this one! ;) Hi Bob, Hmm, now let me see, hmm (pulls out 1956 model Aristo Studio slide-rule)...... Whats this? Oh no, not Sirius again. <sigh> At Constellation, AZ., when Alnitak (Orions Belt) passes thru south, Sirius.. oh no!.. is exactly 19.5 degs east of south, and... (twiddling furiously with renewed vigour)... further more, at precisely sunrise, Sirius disappears over the horizon at... at... <arrgh>..19.5 degs south of west. (Collapses on floor while reaching for well-worn book of Druidic incantations). djg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 D.J. Oates on Hoagland's "Inside Sources" From: Bob Soetebier - bikebob <bikebob@mo.net> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:47:25 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 12:39:54 -0500 Subject: D.J. Oates on Hoagland's "Inside Sources" Errol, I know that Keith Woodard has posted to your list (as he did as recently Fri., Nov. 20, 1998,) but, just in case he doesn't have a chance to pass this one on... Bob Soetebier Tailwinds to you... See you ON the road! /// BICYCLE BOB /// bikebob@mo.net ----------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith Woodard Subject: Re: IUFO: D.J. Oates on Hoagland's "inside sources" Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:52:14 -0800 -> IUFO Mailing List ---------- >From: bikebob <bikebob@mo.net> >To: I-UFO <iufo@world.std.com> >Subject: IUFO: D.J. Oates on Hoagland's "inside sources" >Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 8:29 PM >-> IUFO Mailing List >For those of you who have not read David John Oates' (of >"Reverse Speech" analysis fame) 11-13-98 statement about >Richard Hoagland's claimed "insider sources" in regards >to Hoagland's predicted (purported) Dec. 7, 1998, "north of >Phoenix, Arizona" "landing" event...then be sure to check >out this article... >David Oates' Statement On Hoagland's "December 7th" and "Samson" >...upon Jeff Rense's "Sightings On The Radio" web site at this >specific URL: >http://www.sightings.com/ufo/oates.htm A certain Angstrom Medal recipient and former science advisor to Walter Cronkite counters with: http://www.lunaranomalies.com/dore.htm Kind regards, Keith ->Send "subscribe iufo " to majordomo@world.std.com -> Posted by: "Keith Woodard" <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net> ----------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:41:13 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 12:52:05 -0500 Subject: Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:15:29 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' >>From: Michael Lindemann <CNINews1@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:38:30 EST >>Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:06:04 -0500 >>Subject: Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' >>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:31:40 +0100 >>>Subject: NBC TV News On Triangle >>>Source: IUFO mailing list, November 20, >>>http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/media/mailing/archive/iufo/msg01021.shtml >>>IUFO Mailing List >>>NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft !!! >>>From: ranger116@webtv.net (Thomas Buyea) >>>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:12:25 -0500 (EST) >>>Subject: IUFO: NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft !!! ><snip> >>I have seen a report on CNN about the new NASA aircraft referred >>to above. This is an experimental, unmanned flying wing of very >>strange design. It is, I believe, approximately 200 feet from >>wingtip to wingtip. >>The wing is straight and narrow -- probably about ten feet front >>to back. The craft has no body. It is propeller driven with a >>large number (more than a dozen) small propellers. >>It flies at a speed of just 20 miles per hour but can reach an >>altitude of 100,000 feet. >>It is mostly silver and white in color. >>It bears no resemblance whatsoever to a "black triangle." Watch >>CNN today and you'll probably see pictures of it. >>Best regards, >>Michael Lindemann >>CNI News >I'd like to add to what Michael Lindemann said here. >The craft is called Pathfinder; it is a fragile, relatively >low-tech ultralight very similar to the pedal-powered >ultralights of the last decade, propelled by solar-powered >electric motors, and consisting largely of clear plastic >sheeting stretched over a simple lightweight frame. >The straight wing is hinged in four places and flops around a >lot like a snake, which apparently gives the whole clumsy, poky >thing some stability. >It is certainly no triangle and no high performance craft. >It's purpose is to fly virtually unattended and slowly at a very >high altitude for a very long time. Uses could be things like >cell-phone communications and various types of surveillance. >Furthermore it is no secret, though it may finally be getting >some general press. I was at Dryden Space Flight Center, >Edwards AFB last April, and they were showing we, the public, >movies and slides of it, along with other of their experimental >craft. >Part of Dryden's public literature is a handout called The >Dryden X-Press, a 4-page newsletter. The one we received is >dated October 1997 and includes a photo with caption of the >craft, which I've scanned and attached to this post for those >who are interested. >Again, please note -- basically a very slow 'SaranWrap 'craft >and no triangle. How this got hyped into a possible explanation >for huge, high-performance black triangles is beyond me. >David Rudiak ================================================> Dear Dave; I dunno, Rudiak, sure looks like a triangle to me. I mean if you turn it sideways and look at it with a mirror behind your back while shaving and singing "Show me the way to go home" in the key of E Major during a snowstorm where just fourteen inches has fallen, not one inch more or less.... then if you count to ten and ring a bell three times and smoke some good weed grown on the hills of the Mendez farm in Southwest Kadajo Columbia, it _will_ look _exactly_ like a tringle, tangle, traingle.... uh, whatever. And listen Dave... you gotta be more careful in the future, OK? Jim Mortellaro, AKA, Dr. Jaime Gesundt, Canal Street UFO Researcher
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 Re: Real Men Choose C! From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:50:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 12:55:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Real Men Choose C! >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Real Men Choose C! >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:26:23 -0500 >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:53:39 -0500 (EST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Real Men Choose C! >>>Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:38:03 +0000 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >>>Subject: Real Men Choose C! <snip> >>>incredibly sophisticated device that is capable of curing all >>>diseases, provide an infinite supply of clean energy, wipe out >>>hunger, and permanently eliminate oppression and violence. What >>>would you do with it? >>>A. Present it to the Prime Minister >>>B. Present it to the Secretary General of the United Nations. >>>C. Take it apart to what makes it tick. >>You left out: >>D. Sell it to the highest bidder. >>Bob >E. Try the device on the aliens (trust no one!). >Serge Salvaille I'd visit all the local hospitals, Ontario Hydro, walk down Yonge Street, then hop on Highway 401. <G> (We actually have a billboard as you enter the City of Toronto that says "Welcome to Toronto. Have a Road Rage Day." Then I'd travel, leaving the Pentagon off my list and the FBI & CIA in my dust. But then again, if secrets and lying are a disease, maybe I could cure that too. Hey, what a concept! Declassified, declassified, declassified, declassified, declassified, declassified.....
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 Re: From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:23:45 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:02:56 -0500 Subject: Re: I wrote: >From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:28:44 +0100 >Subject: UFOs Over Nuke Site Targets Of Missiles? >[List only] >Source: U-WIRE via USA TODAY's "Off Beat" section, November 20, >http://www.usatoday.com/uwire/offbeat112098009.htm >Stig >******* >UFO Lecturer At Louisiana State Explores Accounts Of Alien >Visits >By Georgina Troughton >The Reveille (Louisiana State U.) >11/20/98 >*** >(U-WIRE) BATON ROUGE, La. -- Robert Hastings was 16 years old >when he saw his first UFO. >He was living on an Air Force base with his family when he >noticed five "unidentified aerial targets" in the night sky. >"I saw them hover and ascend vertically at high speeds when the >base sent missiles after them," Hastings said. "An important >thing to understand is where they were hovering ... over nuclear >missile sites." >Hastings addressed students and faculty at the Union Tuesday >with his "Hidden Mystery" presentation. >He said the sighting impacted his life significantly, prompting >him to spend the past 30 years researching the UFO phenomenon, >he said. >"The experience made a big impression on me," he said. >Hastings has traveled to over 500 universities across the >country in order to raise awareness of UFO sightings and the >numerous government records documenting these events. I posted the item to the IUFO mailing list, too, resulting in two follow-ups, one of which identified the location of Hastings' experience. URL: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/media/mailing/archive/iufo/msg01069.shtml Stig ******* IUFO Mailing List Re: UFOS OVER NUKE SITE TARGETS OF MISSILES? From: Jim K Subject: Re: IUFO: UFOs Over Nuke Site Targets Of Missiles? Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:26:51 -0800 -> IUFO Mailing List Ash and all.. The incident you mention re the 2 flights of missiles being shutdown is the case I have been assisting Robert Salas with for about 4 years now. A short telling of the case with some documentation is available at: http://www.cufon.org/cufon/malmstrom/malm1.htm This case was indeed the subject of a Sightings episode wherein Mr. Salas and Don Crawford, both ex-USAF missileers involved with the missile shutdown incidents, were reunited. The reason these courageous men felt free to speak is that USAF has declassified the fact that missile shutdowns did occur. I was able, after a lengthy FOIA effort, to obtain this confirmation and also get some other related material declassified and released. No official admission of UFOs over the Malmstrom sites was obtained, which should not surprise anyone here, but many witnesses we have been able to contact confirm the events. Official USAF documentation does exist of many UFO/nuclear base incidents, one of which was also over a Minuteman base - Minot AFB - just a few months prior to the Malmstrom incidents. Please note that as far as we can tell, no re-targeting of missiles was involved in the Malmstrom missile shutdown events. An uncorroborated story to this effect came through Linda Moulton Howe. Note also that I am not saying that this did not happen, or impugning Ms. Howe, just that the story is uncorroborated at this time. Mr. Salas and I have spoken with Mr. Hastings in the course of our investigation. His experience was indeed at Malmstrom AFB in about the right time frame to correlate with the incidents we are researching. I would be appreciative of any new information anyone may have related to the Malmstrom incidents of March 1967, or of other UFO/nuclear cases. Thanks... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Jim Klotz [CUFON SYSOP] I put a $dollar in the change machine.... jimklotz@foxinternet.net But nothing changed! http://www.cufon.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---------- >From: Ashley Rye <ashleyry@netcomuk.co.uk> >To: iufo@world.std.com >Subject: Re: IUFO: UFOS OVER NUKE SITE TARGETS OF MISSILES? >Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 4:51 AM >-> IUFO Mailing List >At 12:32 21/11/98 +0100, you wrote: >>The military declared a faulty weather balloon was the source of the >>crashed object but this explanation remains debated, he said. <snip> As regards UFOs 'not being a security issue' there is the well documented case of two nuclear missile silos rendered inoperative by UFOs at the same time, and then returning to normal, as portrayed on 'Sightings'. The individuals in charge of the bases, no longer encumbered by the thirty year rule, if I remember correctly, felt free to speak openly about this incident for the first time without fear of prosecution, and are now the best of friends. Ash <<<SNIP>>> ->Send "subscribe iufo " to majordomo@world.std.com -> Posted by: "Jim K" <jimklotz@foxinternet.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 Alien Life Forms May Be Inside Earth From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:28:50 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:05:31 -0500 Subject: Alien Life Forms May Be Inside Earth [List only] Source: The Sunday Times Stig ******* Sunday, November 22, 1998 =BF=BF=BF NEWS: BRITAIN Alien Life Forms May Be Inside Earth by Steve Farrar Science Correspondent LIFE FORMS so alien that scientists may simply not have recognised evidence of their existence could inhabit the Earth, according to a leading scientist. Dr Tom Gold, emeritus professor of astronomy at Cornell University in America, believes that organisms based on silicon - completely unrelated to all the carbon-based life man has encountered so far - may live at great depths. In a forthcoming book he will suggest that scientists should take the possibility more seriously. Gold, who is a member of the Royal Society, previously predicted that vast amounts of more conventional bacteria live miles down within the Earth's crust. Scientists initially dismissed the idea, but many now agree with him. "So long as nobody suspects there could be silicon-based life, we may just not be clever enough to identify it," he said last week. Rocks bearing signs of silicon-based organisms may already be sitting in laboratories, he believes, with their significance overlooked. Every known living organism, from bacteria to mankind, is based on the chemistry of carbon, which forms the complex molecules such as DNA that are central to our existence. Scientists believe that if extraterrestrial life is found, the chances are that it, too, will be carbon-based. Silicon has many chemical similarities to carbon, prompting scholars and science fiction writers to dream up new life forms. Huge "space slugs" that can swallow space ships appear in the film The Empire Strikes Back; in an episode of Star Trek a rock-like alien attacked Captain Kirk's crew; and killer parasites based on silicon surfaced in the X-Files when scientists explored the interior of a volcano. Gold's life forms, if they exist, would most likely be micro-organisms capable of withstanding enormous pressures and temperatures, living in tiny pores inside rock deep within the Earth's crust. They could draw energy from dissolved gases and surrounding minerals. Gold's ideas, which centre on an alternative explanation for oil and mineral deposits, will be published in his book, The Deep Hot Biosphere, in January. "It is speculative but logical that there could be a large bio-chemical system very deep down which works better at high temperatures and pressures," he said. Others are sceptical. Dr Harold Klein, who headed the Viking lander project team that searched for signs of life on Mars in the 1970s, pointed out that silicon was far inferior to carbon at forming the complex polymers crucial for life. "I personally doubt the idea of silicon-based life. If we do find organisms far down inside the Earth, I'd bet they'd be carbon-based," he said. Nevertheless, he urges future missions to Mars to carry an instrument to test for non-carbon-based organisms - just in case. It is possible that the chemistry of silicon is altered sufficiently by the great temperatures and pressures deep in the Earth to make it more suited to forming complex molecules, according to David Noever, a research scientist at Nasa's new Astrobiology Institute. He said some scientists at the American space agency were treating the idea of silicon-based organisms seriously, particularly with a view to searching for extraterrestrial life. "It's almost naive to assume all life must be carbon-based; I could possibly make good cases for life based on both silicon and phosphorus," he said. Silicon is used by some carbon-based single-cell organisms called diatoms to form protective shells, according to Dr David Williams, a diatom researcher at the Natural History Museum in London. But diatoms are still fundamentally carbon-based. However, bizarre organisms have been found in recent years deep in the Earth's crust. Steve Jones, professor of genetics at University College London, said: "There's an unknown universe down there that has already produced organisms with metabolisms so strange that, by comparison, man and mushrooms are almost identical, so God knows what else they'll find." Microbes have been found living on the ocean floor at depths and temperatures where life was previously thought unsustainable. Without knowing what silicon-based life forms might be like, said Dr Harry Elderfield, an earth scientist at Cambridge University, it is almost impossible to predict how scientists could even test for them. Yet Gold has been described by Stephen Jay Gould, president of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, as one of the most iconoclastic scientists - but one who is often right. Copyright 1998 Times Newspapers Ltd. This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard terms and conditions. To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from The Times, visit the Syndication website.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 09:49:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:08:36 -0500 Subject: Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:15:29 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' >>From: Michael Lindemann <CNINews1@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:38:30 EST >>Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:06:04 -0500 >>Subject: Re: NBC TV News On 'Triangle' >>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:31:40 +0100 >>>Subject: NBC TV News On Triangle >>>Source: IUFO mailing list, November 20, >>>http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/media/mailing/archive/iufo/msg01021.shtml >>>IUFO Mailing List >>>NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft !!! >>>From: ranger116@webtv.net (Thomas Buyea) >>>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:12:25 -0500 (EST) >>>Subject: IUFO: NBC TV NEWS Triangle Craft !!! ><snip> >>I have seen a report on CNN about the new NASA aircraft referred >>to above. This is an experimental, unmanned flying wing of very >>strange design. It is, I believe, approximately 200 feet from >>wingtip to wingtip. >>The wing is straight and narrow -- probably about ten feet front >>to back. The craft has no body. It is propeller driven with a >>large number (more than a dozen) small propellers. >>It flies at a speed of just 20 miles per hour but can reach an >>altitude of 100,000 feet. >>It is mostly silver and white in color. >>It bears no resemblance whatsoever to a "black triangle." Watch >>CNN today and you'll probably see pictures of it. >>Best regards, >>Michael Lindemann >>CNI News >I'd like to add to what Michael Lindemann said here. >The craft is called Pathfinder; it is a fragile, relatively >low-tech ultralight very similar to the pedal-powered >ultralights of the last decade, propelled by solar-powered >electric motors, and consisting largely of clear plastic >sheeting stretched over a simple lightweight frame. >The straight wing is hinged in four places and flops around a >lot like a snake, which apparently gives the whole clumsy, poky >thing some stability. > >It is certainly no triangle and no high performance craft. > >It's purpose is to fly virtually unattended and slowly at a very >high altitude for a very long time. Uses could be things like >cell-phone communications and various types of surveillance. >Furthermore it is no secret, though it may finally be getting >some general press. I was at Dryden Space Flight Center, >Edwards AFB last April, and they were showing we, the public, >movies and slides of it, along with other of their experimental >craft. >Part of Dryden's public literature is a handout called The >Dryden X-Press, a 4-page newsletter. The one we received is >dated October 1997 and includes a photo with caption of the >craft, which I've scanned and attached to this post for those >who are interested. >Again, please note -- basically a very slow 'SaranWrap 'craft >and no triangle. How this got hyped into a possible explanation >for huge, high-performance black triangles is beyond me. >David Rudiak >Attached: PATHFIND.jpg It is really good to see factual material replace fiction. Nice job Michael and David.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:08:02 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:13:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] Hey, all I want to know is when I get my prize!!!!????? They all sound like items to be cherished, and handed down from generation to generation. Bob BTW, the first abductees were Irish, carried off by the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 An Historic Report On Life In Space: [Transcript] From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:47:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:47:47 -0500 Subject: An Historic Report On Life In Space: [Transcript] [The documents reproduced below appear at the NIDS site as .JPGs and as such can only be read at the site. Since their import merits digitising, Sue and I spent some time keying from the image files - they simply wouldn't OCR with the software we have. The 'Figures' mentioned below are on-line at NIDS. We also have a .DOC version of what's below that includes the images - available on request. Bear in mind that that file is over 1Mb --ebk] An Historic Report On Life In Space: Tesla, Marconi, Todd by C. D. Jackson and R. E. Hohmann International Business Machines Corp. Kingston, New York 2730-62 AMERICAN ROCKET SOCIETY 17th ANNUAL MEETING AND SPACE FLIGHT EXPOSITION PAN PACIFIC AUDITORIUM LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 13 - 18, 1962 Commentary Introduction: Our attention was directed toward the existence of this paper by one of our colleagues in the scientific community. After further inquiry, it was found that this paper is archived at the Linda Hall Library (an independent research library of science and technology, 800-662-1545) in Kansas City, Missouri. The paper is archived on microfiche and, after further investigation, we found that no original hard copy is obtainable from either the Linda Hall Library or IBM's archives. We then ordered a photocopy of the paper be made from microfiche and sent to NIDS. What we present below are scanned images of this photocopy in JPG format which is the lowest image format size obtainable for this document. The text and figures 1 and 4 are clear and legible after scanning, but we found that figures 2 and 3 are difficult to understand as they are photographical data from a Jenkins Radio-Camera (ca. 1924). The Linda Hall Library provided three photocopies of the page containing the four figures using different contrasts for each to help us find the best copy of these microfiche images. Thus, we provide below two scanned images of figures 2 and 3 to let the viewer see for themselves what we believe to be the two best presentations of them. Figures 2 and 3 are difficult to understand or interpret since they represent photographical data from the Jenkins Radio-Camera. An Historic Report On Life In Space: During the years 1899-1924 three experimental scientists, Nikola Tesla, Guglielmo Marconi, and David Todd (working independently of each other) observed laboratory data and related phenomenon which suggested the possibility that they were monitoring interplanetary communications. During the same period (199-1924) the Russian theorist Konstantin Tsiolkovsky deduced a model of an intelligence existing independently of terrestrial influence. Tesla, Marconi, and Todd did not know that they were working with identical data, nor did they know that these data corroborated, in a quantitative manner, the theoretical model built by Tsiolkovsky. This paper presents the investigations and experimental data of Nikola Tesla, Guglielmo Marconi and David Todd. The data are first brought together in a historical model (1899-1924) and then are shown to be the natural complement of a current theoretical model (1959-1962). These data are then recommended for assembly into a quantitative five model according to the theoretical outline described by Tsiolkovsky.*1 Our purpose in this paper is to examine the original data of Tesla, Marconi and Todd in response to a rhetorical inquiry presented by the Office of the Director of Defense Research and Engineering, asking: "What research is being done to keep abreast of the scientific advances of the past... to see that there is not needless duplication of effort? Did the advances of the past fail to find application due to a lack of need for application at the time, or failure to have developed some technique or material ancillary to the application of the scientific advance?" *1 For purpose of economy-of-presentation, biographical details of Tesla, Marconi, Todd and Tsiolkovsky are omitted and only as much historical background is used as is necessary to establish a chronology of events. (1) Tesla: Experiments in High-Frequency (1892-1907) ------------------------------------------------ As early as 1892, Nikola Tesla had defined the use of the magnetic field of the terrestrial globe as a means of signal and energy transmission. (2) To reduce this idea to practice, Tesla designed and built equipment (3) capable of producing high-frequency currents, including the ability for tuning both transmitting and receiving coils to any desired frequency or wavelength. (4) In a paper delivered at the 1893 meeting of the National Electric Light Association, Tesla stated that the purpose of his laboratory investigation was to know what is the capacitance of the earth, and what charge does it contain if electrified. "Though we have no positive evidence of a charged body existing in space without other oppositely charged electric bodies being near," said Tesla, "there is a fair probability that the earth is such a body, for by whatever process it was separated*2 ... it must have retained a charge as occurs in all processes of mechanical separation." (5) Tesla continued his lecture, stating that the intent of his calculations was "... to ascertain at what period the earth's charge when disturbed, oscillates, with respect to an oppositely charged system or known circuit." (6) In effect Tesla was theorizing that the planet Earth has a circuit-identification, i.e., a 'signature' of its own, and that, given the proper equipment, he could broadcast this identity wholesale into the universe. *2 Tesla�s views regarding the origin of the earth are derived from ideas proposed by Sir George Darwin (1845-1912), e.g., that the moon was torn from the Earth by solar tides cf. �Mysteries of the Moon�, Dr. Harold Urey, New York Times, October 8, 1961 By 1896 Tesla developed a prototype oscillator of sufficient capacity that he was able to demonstrate a "loop" circuit which was tied in with the earth's magnetic field. Test of the oscillator at the Houston Street Laboratory (New York) in 1896 are bet remembered for the "earthquake" tremors that were distributed over an area of twelve city blocks. Three years after the Houston Street effort Tesla was now ready to begin a full scale experiment. For this purpose he had constructed a special laboratory near Colorado Springs, Colorado. The Colorado laboratory (Figure 1) was located on a vast expanse of plain, 2000 meters above sea level. The entire laboratory was designed in keeping with Tesla's plan to make the terrestrial globe a propagation device for the transmission of energy. With reference to Figure 1, the mast is 280 feet high and is topped with a copper ball approximately three feet in diameter. The interior of the building was walled in a circular manner to accommodate the winding of a primary coil 75 feet in diameter. In operation, surges of power were driven, alternately, into the earth and outward from the top of the mast. Broadcast wavelengths were registered at 2000 meters. (7) Banks of incandescent lights "plugged into" the ground 26 miles from the laboratory-site flowed and flashed and throughout the experiments. Specialized instrumentation built to record the experiments at the Colorado laboratory was sensitive to the point that Tesla could detect and catalogue every type of atmospheric electrical disturbance within a radius of 1100 miles. It was during the tests conducted in Colorado in 1899 that Tesla detected the phenomenon which he described as an interplanetary communication. Speaking of the data that, unexpectedly, had registered on his instruments Tesla said that the signals took place "... periodically, and with such a clear suggestion of number and order that they were not traceable to any cause then known to me. I was familiar ... with such electrical disturbances as are produced by the sun, Aurora Borealis and earth currents, and I was as sure as I could be of any fact that these variations were due to none of these causes. The nature of my experiments precluded the possibility of the changes being produced by atmospheric disturbances .... Although I could not decipher their meaning, it was impossible for me to think of them as having been entirely accidental ... a purpose was be-hind these signals (8)...they are the results of an attempt by some human beings, not of our world, to speak to us by signals .. I am absolutely certain that they are not caused by anything terrestrial." (9) Following the experience in Colorado in 1899, Tesla became increasingly reluctant to release further details via the press and other public media. There is reason to believe, however, that the phenomenon Tesla recorded in Colorado, in 1899, consisted of three parts which, eventually, Tesla identified in terms analogous only to our present-day Information Theory. Tesla's efforts to respond in kind with a fourth part were therefore understandably abstruse to the point where "... for particular reasons," he said, the "... full technical report descriptive of the apparatus and results would be reserved for the records of the academies of science." (10) Marconi-Todd: Observations and Experimentation (1899-1924) ---------------------------------------------------------- On March 27, 1899, while Tesla was completing construction of the Colorado laboratory, Guglielmo Marconi concluded his first significant communication experiment: wireless transmission/receiving across the English Channel. The achievement (transmission of the code-letter 'V' from Wimereaux, France, to South Foreland, England - a distance of 50 miles) was the culmination of personal convictions and laboratory efforts closely resembling the equipment approach taken by Tesla. "electrical actions or manifestations," said Marconi in 1897, describing his basic patent, "are transmitted through the air, earth, or water by means of electric oscillations of high frequency." (11) And again, as with Tesla, Marconi's method of inquiry was to search for, and to duplicate the prototypes already existing in nature. (12) Experimental techniques, according to Marconi's view are "... no more than a simple consequence of observing and studying the means employed by nature to obtain her effects of heat, light, of magnetism across space. As the heat and light of the sun upon which depend the life of our planet are transmitted across millions and millions of kilometers of space, as the light of the most distant stars, as the electrical and magnetic perturbations of nature are manifested to us after having crossed the most immeasurable distances, it appeared to me {Marconi} that by adopting means similar to those adopted by nature, it should be possible to transmit these effects at our will..." (13) The correctness of Marconi's approach, i.e., finding his prototypes in the phenomena of nature, and implementing his findings with compatible devices, was aptly demonstrated on December 12, 1901, with the transmission of the first transatlantic message. Signals (a repetition of the code-letter "S") sent from the 25 Kilowatt station at Poldhu (Pold-ju) in Cornwall, England, were received via a kite-borne antenna flown from St. Johns, Newfoundland, a distance of 1800 miles. Following this success and the eventual establishment of an international Wireless Telegraph Company, Marconi once again turned to basic research. To ensure personal independence, Marconi fitted out a floating laboratory (the 220 foot yacht Electra). In this environment Marconi could work "...at all hours of the day and the night, finding without delay suitable grounds for all kinds of experiments which would be difficult and complicated to carry out on land." (14) It was in September, 1921, aboard the Electra, while conducting atmospheric experiments in the Mediterranean area, that Marconi detected the phenomenon which he described as an interplanetary communication. The first report of this experience was released by J.C.H. MacBeth, London Manager of the Marconi Wireless Telegraph Company. "The signals", MacBeth said, "registered high in the meter band, although the maximum length of earth-produced waves at the time was 14,000 meters. The theory that the waves were produced by electrical disturbances was disproved by the regularity of the pulses. Although the pulses apparently consisted of a code, the only signal similar to earth codes was one resembling the letter "V" in the Marconi Code. Marconi himself expressed the belief that the signal had originated ... at some point in outer space." (15) In his own discussion of the signals Marconi stated that he expected interplanetary communications to take the form of a "... transmission of pictures accompanied by a simple code." (16) In this statement Marconi anticipated by 3 years the results of the remarkable "listening" experiment conducted by Dr. David Todd, then professor of Astronomy at Amherst College, Massachusetts. On the night of August 22, 1924, the planet Mars approached to within thirty-four and a half million miles. (17) Realizing that this close an approach would not come again until the year 2000, a "listening" experiment was arranged by Dr. Todd. At Dr. Todd's suggestion the U.S. Government, through diplomatic channels, requested that all countries with high-power transmitters turn off their equipment for 5 minutes every hour from 11:50 p.m. August 21, to 11:50 p.m. August 23. (18) A radio-photo message device was used to record results of the experiment. The device (19) was attached to a receiving set and adjusted to a wave-length of 6000 meters. Incoming radio signals received during the test period were converted to light signals which, in turn were printed on a reel of photo-sensitive tape five inches wide. The printed tape, following the experiment, was 25 feet long, comprising 16 printed frames, and contained a pattern of dots and dashes (Figure 2) plus some configurations of grouped signals (Figure 3) located at approximately 30 minutes intervals on the tape. (20) The rationale for determining whether the signals reported by Tesla, Marconi and Todd, i.e., between 1899 and 1924, are the result of random noise, electrical leaks, or the effects of various diathermy machines, or whether the signals are authentic, requires first of all that the data be assembled into a historical model. The second requirement is that the model agree with a theoretical construct. And, finally, that in the matching of the historical model to the theoretical construct there be neither "forcing" nor expedient collusion. We shall examine all three of these conditions. Historical Model ---------------- As shown in Figure 4 there is a consistency of signal-to-noise-response between the sending of the Morse 'V' in March, 1899, and the monitoring of an unknown identical response in September, 1921. In this first cycle the signal-to-response time was 22 years. The consistency holds true again for the sending of the Morse 'S' in December, 1901, and the monitoring of the Morse 'S' plus an additional code in August, 1924. Again the signal-to-noise time was 22 years. No other data are known. Prudence demands that we not surmise and add more to the model than actually exists. Theoretical Model ----------------- If we regard the historical model (Figure 4) as a discrete period of time (1899-1924) marking the very earliest attempts at communication by means of electromagnetic radiation, then, according to the hypothesis of Dr. Frank D. Drake (Radio Astronomy Observatory, Green Bank, West Virginia), other older civilizations searching the universe for radiation from abodes of life would "... detect the very early transmissions of a civilization having just discovered radio. (21) Using passive observation equipment on the order of a very powerful radio telescope, detection of these primitive efforts would be reliable and quick. (22) Drake's hypothesis agrees closely with the data of the historical model. Tesla's Colorado experiments in 1899 were, using Drake's words, "... the very early transmission of a civilization having just discovered radio". (23) The immediate detection of Tesla's experiments by means of passive observation equipment is strongly suggest in the delayed signal-echo- phenomena observed by Hals, Stormer, Van Der Pol, and E. V. Appleton (1927-1928), (24) and the careful calculations and experimental data by Budden and Yates (1952) conclu7ding that the delayed echo-phenomena they were examining was in fact the result of planar reflections from a system "... fixed in space relative to the earth and moving [in orbit] permanently with the earth." (25) "Once a civilization is discovered," says Drake, continuing his hypothesis, "it is expected that ... an introductory signal [be sent] to the new found civilization." (26) In this regard the multi-million volt surges of radio noise generated by Tesla during the Colorado experiments in 1899 were intended to produce electrical waves" ... of such magnitude that, without the slightest doubt, [the] effect will be perceptible on some of our nearer planets." (27) During a pause in the experiments there had been noted by Tesla - and anticipating by 60 years Drake's comment above - a series of incoming signals "... taking place periodically and with such a clear suggestion of number and order ... the feeling in constantly growing on me that I had been the first to hear the greeting of one planet to another." (28) The physical characteristics of the monitored signals as listed in the historical model (Figure 4), and as posited in theory, likewise present a remarkable similarity. The signals monitored by Tesla (1899), Marconi (1921); and by Hals, Stormer and Van Der Pol (1927) are characteristically simple. The signals are, basically, a "response-in-kind" repeating the original transmission, although on a higher-frequency, and performing, at least in part, a recognition function. In this respect the historical model supports Sebastian von Hoerner's opinion that "... the nature of the signals will be defined entirely by the purpose they serve and by the most economical way to achieve this purpose." (29) The simplicity appropriate to a recognition of a civilization just having discovered electromagnetic techniques is likewise consistent with M. H. Briggs' theory that another civilization would "... deliberately render the signal capable of detection as an artificial transmission by sending a 'message' composed of some regularly repeated pattern of impulses." (30) A more sophisticated theory - which nevertheless is exactly analogous with the radio-photo data recorded during Dr. Todd's "listening" experiment (1924) is offered in Drake's private suggestion that other civilizations would "... send out pulses in clusters - a series of pulses followed by a pause, another series, another pause, and so on. The number of signals in each pulse could stand for intensity of light or dark and we could build up a picture on the basis of the information received." (31) The radio-photo tape used in the "listening" experiment (1924) recorded 16 increments or frames, of clustered pulses, each increment separated by a 30 minute pause. The format of the pulses suggested two distinct efforts: signals, and images (Figures 2 and 3). A most interesting comment here, and certainly beyond explanation, is Marconi's emphatic statement to the press (September, 1921) following his own experience of monitoring signals originating from an unknown point in space, that he fully expected interplanetary communication to be in the form of "...transmission of pictures accompanied by a simple code." (32) The final piece of information carried over from the historical model is the data representing signal-to-response time. Tesla's experience, as we have noted earlier, is identifiable with the Budden and Yates conclusion pointing to the existence of a system fixed in space relative to the earth and moving in orbit permanently with the earth, (33) and with F.D. Drake's theory of a passive observation system tuned to detect and to respond quickly to new sources of electromagnetic radiation. With Marconi and Todd, however, the signal-to-response time on both occasions was 22 years. And here, too, the historical model agrees most exactly with the contemporary theory that the probability of occurrence of life in the universe is best predictable on the basis of considering first those stars most resembling our own sun. The following table, prepared by Su-Shu-Huang (34) of the Institute of Advanced Studies, at Princeton, quantitatively reconstructed this theory: NEARBY STARS ON WHOSE PLANETS (if any) LIVING BEINGS HAVE A BETTER-THAN-AVERAGE CHANCE TO DEVELOP ................................................... Distance in Spectral StarLight Years Type Luminosity ................................................... Sun G2 1.00 Epsilon 10.8 K2 0.34 Eridani Tau 11.8 G4 0.38 Ceti Signal-to-response times rated at the speed of light place the transmitted/monitored signals of Marconi and Todd exactly in the Epsilon/Eridani/Tau Ceti bracket. 'The Antecedence of the Historical Model' ----------------------------------------- The experience of Tesla, Marconi, and Todd were, respectively, personal and individual; there was no joint effort or comparative analysis either before or after the experience. In each instance a particular phenomenon was observed and recorded - and nothing more. As discrete events representative of isolated scientific phenomena distributed over the years 1899-1924, the value of each event at the time of occurrence was, therefore, impossible to ascertain. In composite form, however (as brought together in Figure 4), there comes into existence and without in any way distorting the individual events themselves - an inter-relationship of events. This inter-relationship (and the potential it carries) is the male factor that makes theory come alive with meaning. For this reason neither the events of the historical model not the data of the theoretical construct can, along, be meaningful. The fact that the historical model came into existence first, and that the shaping of the theoretical model came 35 years later (beginning in 1959), is less important than the fact that each is a natural complement to the other. 'Tsiolkovsky: An Advanced Theoretical Model' --------------------------------------------- In the development of a theoretical model to give meaning to the historical events of 1899-1924 we have used the interim period of 35 years as a guarantee, i.e., an insulation, to assure that the complementary matching is natural rather than collusive. We have presented an historical approach to the subject and, deliberately, have avoided any attempt to interpret the data, reserving this subject for a specific paper. (35) As a preliminary estimate, however, there are indications that the final interpretation will proceed more along the lines of Information Theory, and Image Processing, rather than in the conventional manner of reducing signals to alpha-numeric characters. The factors of guidance in this future effort are the intuitions inherent in the advanced theoretical model proposed by Konstantin Tsiolkovsky (1857-1935). In the same manner that the model comprising the historical events of 1899-1924 is complementary to the opinions of the present-day scientific community, so too can we predict with some accuracy that a quantitative analysis of these same historical data will advance the state of the art to the level of Tsiolkovsky's theory of interplanetary communication. Even before Shannon's development of the Information Theory (1948), Tsiolkovsky had maintained that "...the simple repetition of signals is an obsolete method, convenient only in the initial state of interstellar communication, in a form of short and simple signals." (36) Probing deeply for answers to the questions of entropy and negentropy, Tsiolkovsky worked with concepts that would not be related to signal theory until many years later with the advent of Wiener, Shannon, and Weaver. "Science cannot avoid strange paths" was Tsiolkovsky's dictum. In this paper we have utilized the historic approach in an attempt to mark out the beginning of just such a path, and, insofar as possible, to remove some of the strangeness. References ---------- 1. Office of the Director of Defense Research and Engineering, January, 1961 'Important Areas of Electronic Research' quoting W. R. G. Baker, President of Syracuse University Research Corporation. 2. Nikola Tesla, 'Experiments with Alternative Currents', The Institute of Electrical Engineers, London, England, February, 1892. 3. The equipment built in 1893 is described in U.S. Government Patents, Numbers 645, 576 and 649, 621. These patents descriptions contain all the fundamental features of radio broadcasting and receiving circuits. The work was accomplished 14 years in advance of Marconi's similar effort. 4. 'Prodigal Genius, The Life of Nikola Tesla', John J. O'Neill, Ives Washburn, Incorporated, 1994, Part II, Chapter VIII, pp., 121-127. 5. Ibid., Part II, Chapter VIII, p. 132. 6. Ibid., Part II, Chapter VIII, p. 132. 7. Nikola Tesla, 'The Transmission of Electric Energy Without Wires', The Electrical World and Engineer, March t, 1904. 8. Nikola Tesla, 'Talking with the Planets' Current Literature, March, 1901, pp. 359-360. 9. 'Tesla Has a Message from the Stars', Western Electrician, January 12, 1901, p. 33. 10. Western Electrician, July 13, 1907, p. 37. 11. Guglielmo Marconi, Patent Number 12,039 (England), July 2, 1897. 12. Compare with Pope Pius XII, Address to the Third International Communication Congress, October 12, 1935. The extraordinary achievements of science and technology "... are in reality nothing but the discovery and possession of forces and pre-existing laws which the Creator spread throughout the universe and which have operated actively since the beginning of creation. 13. 'My Father, Marconi', Degna Marconi, McGraw-Hill Company, New York, 1962, Part II, Chapter VII, p. 148. 14. Ibid., Part III, Chapter VIII, p.231 15. Condensed from an article by Vincent H. Gaddis. 16. The New York Times, September, e, 1921, 4:4. 17. Mars is, on the average, 200,000,000 miles from Earth, and, at the greatest distance, is 235,000,000 miles from Earth. On August 23, 1924, Mars and Earth were almost at the critical positions for a minimum separation of 34,648,000 miles. 18. The general description of this experiment is derived from accounts carried in the Washington Post, August 21-22, 1924, The New York Times, August 23, 1924; and from a further article by Vincent H. Gaddis. 19. The machine was a Jenkins Radio-Camera, regularly used for recording on a long photo-sensitive paper strip five-inches wide a radio-transmitted message or news copy sent by radio directly from a typewritten paper strip in the sending machine at the broadcasting station. In the camera a very small light source is arranged to traverse this photo strip in transverse lines, sixty lines to the inch. The Longitudinal movement of the paper strip and the transverse movement of the light are both accomplished by an electric motor attachment, the motor being situated outside the light tight camera box. The camera box was located in a dark room so that the camera could be opened and the paper strip put in and taken out without getting it light-struck. The adjustment of the motor speed was such as to move the strip about an inch every half-hour. The tiny light was attached to a radio receiving set located inside the dark room and the radio set adjusted to the longest wave length possible with this set (between 5000 and 6000 meters). About 25 feet of the photo strip was put into the machine at about 1:20pm, Friday, August 22, 1924, and taken out Saturday somewhat later in the afternoon, it is being discovered that the strip had all passed through when the camera was opened. Any incoming radio signals which were within the limits of the wave length of the set would flash the tiny lamp, and these flashes would be recorded on the light-sensitive strip. The completed strip, which was developed on a motion picture film rack, contained a record of all incoming radio signals. 20. A detailed and quantitative analysis of the signals received by Dr. David Todd in 1924 is the subject of a paper currently in preparation by Mr. C.D. Jackson of the IBM Systems Analysis Group, in Bethesda, Maryland. This paper, entitled ' An Experiment in Extra-Terrestrial Communications' will be offered to the American Rocket Society at a future meeting. 21.F.D. Drake, "Project OZMA", Physics Today, April, 1961, pp. 40-46. 22.F.D. Drake, Ibid. 23.See Note Number 3 (Tesla�s experimental application of radio technology.) 24.Nature, No. 3079, Vol. 122, November 3, 1928; Nature, No. 3084, Vol. 122, December 8, 1928; see also A. Hoyt Taylor and L.C. Young, Proc., IRE, 16, 561, 1928. 25.K.G. Budden and G.G. Yates, "A Search for Radio Echoes of Long Delay", Journal of Atmospheric and Terrestrial Physics, 1952, Vol. 2, pp. 272 - 281, Pergamon Press, Ltd., London. 26.F.D. Drake, "Project OZMA", Physics Today, April, 1961, pp. 40-46. 27.Vjekoslav Gradecak, quoting Nikola Tesla, in "Electricity for Space Exploration", Ryan Aerospace, Vol. 23, February 1962, No. 1, Ryan Aeronautical Company, San Diego, California. 28.Nikola Tesla, "Talking With the Planets", Current Literature, March, 1901, pp. 359-360. 29 Sebastian von Hoerner, "The Search for Signals from Other Civilizations", Science, December, 1961, pp. 1839 and ff. 30.Michael H. Briggs, "Superior Galactic Communities", Nature, 187, 1102; 1960. 31.Editorial, quoting Dr. F.D. Drake, Science, Volume 130, Number 3391, December 25, 1959. 32.The New York Times, 4:4, September 3, 1921. 33.See Budden and Yates, Note Number 25. 34.Su-Shu Huang, "Occurrence of Life in the Universe", American Scientist, Volume 47, No. 3., September, 1959, pp. 397-402. 35.See Note No. 20. 36.Private Communication, September 4, 1962, from Dr. Alexis N. Tsvetikov, Department of Biophysics, Stanford University, Stanford, California. SPECIAL ACKNOWLEDGEMENT The authors extend a particular acknowledgement of the assistance of Mrs. Walter V. Bingham for making available for use in this paper private documents and notes belonging to her
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 12:29:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:20:27 -0500 Subject: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Date: Sat, 03 Oct 98 17:01:57 PDT >Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 18:31:30 -0400 >Subject: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >>From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net> >>Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:53:03 -0700 >>Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:42:50 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking >>>From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) >>>Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:33:16 -0800 (PST) >>>Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:53:41 -0500 >>>Subject: 'Flying Saucerology' - Europe Vs. The USA JC: To the list: Sorry for the necessitated repost of this article. It wasn't stored properly without the headers. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Point of information: Has anyone besides myself noticed that, although many are excellent, the topics being discussed in this thread series haven't had the word "Oberg" in it for at least 30 or more posts? Then, his name appeared once and disappeared. I think there may be over 60 postings at latest count. At this point, I feel qualified to put my 2-cents in since my website was originally dedicated to "examining for flaws," _one_ essay written by the person whose name appears in the title of all these posts. I suppose this falls into the definition of "debunking." Using the same title as the thread, we could examine this whole thing from another angle; the Failure Of The 'Science' of Mr. Oberg's efforts to debunk certain UFO cases & Researchers. First I'd like to comment on why I believe the posts with the above title have diverged so far from our original theme. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - When I first came on to the net in 1996, I noticed that many of the discussions occurring on "alt.paranet.ufo" would degenerate into generalized personal attacks on one individual or another, with no solid substance to back them up. It wasn't a pleasant scene. Certain people seemed bent upon displaying their animosity toward other researchers. Instead of focusing on the nitty-gritty of cases, these people seemed content fighting with others over generalities rather than digging in and looking closely at the _specifics_ of each case. It seemed to me we were "spinning our wheels." Research, it wasn't. There was little "documentation" offered to support the things they were saying and participants were arguing back and forth as to who was correct or not; in a few cases, with some nasty lower class name calling in the process, as if this would solve the situation. I also noticed that in some cases, "UFO history" seemed to have been forgotten and/or "bent out of shape" with time. Some people were even claiming Hynek was a mole for the CIA, etc. I was actually amazed at some of the things I was reading & what some people were thinking. Then, along the way, perhaps via someone's posting, I discovered EBK's mail list. Discussions were much better here because Errol felt the way I and a number of other people did. He was making the supreme effort to read most if not all the discussions, and make sure that the exchange of views were "research" based rather than "attack" based. When Glenn Campbell came along to archive everything, the mail list was elevated yet another important notch. Concerning Oberg's Essay Concerning Cooper and My Rebuttal: When I read Mr. Oberg's essay on Gordon Cooper, I immediately realized that the knowledge I felt I had accumulated over the years concerning Hynek and McDonald was at odds with what Mr. Oberg had written. I also disagreed with some of the conclusions he had come to regarding some of the cases he had used as examples therein and I composed a reply. When I began posting my Oberg/Cooper series, I had in mind to post something that would be thoroughly documented (i.e. a person could read most of it and check it for himself in the library for accuracy) and then closely examine what Mr. Oberg was saying and perhaps, in the process via research, try to bring at least _some_ accurate history back to the table. i.e., I wanted us to find our "roots" again. Interestingly, sometime in December 1996 in the midst of some interesting discussions between some Europeans, Americans, Canadians and others concerning various facets of the UFO situation, a piece was posted in its entirety on the list for all of us to peruse. It was progressively filled with inflammatory words against America & Americans and could have easily incited hateful discussions between some of the very people having the discussions. It reminded me of the lesser material I'd read on alt.paranet.ufo. Ed Stewart's name was on the header. Another person had written the article. (It's long folks, but to make the point, here it is) You can check the original header here; http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1996/dec/m21-004.shtml I've done my best to more clearly format same at my site: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/estewart_fs.html Perhaps Ed and the original author thought that Americans were supposed to read this and _not_ be totally offended by the disrespectful anti-American (and anti-British, at one point) attitude evidenced throughout the piece from an obviously, extremely prejudiced author. (Especially the latter portions.) In order keep the original discussions flowing without interruption, we disposed of this judiciously at the time; not that selective portions of it might not have been worthy for discussion. However, we were finally heading toward discussions concerning case details, etc. and didn't want to revert to generalizing at this point. Being new at the net, surprised at the intense anger I saw emanating from the article (unusual for EBK's list), proud of being American no matter what our faults, and having been searching for sites I thought looked interesting enough to examine in depth, I posted the following response: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1996/dec/m26-007.shtml My listing of various URLs did not mean that I advocated any of them as proof of UFO visitation but rather did so to demonstrate that there were things people were saying that at least might be examined for authenticity. Over the course of time some of them even proved incapable of supporting their conclusions. The point was that we shouldn't allow ourselves to become lost in "generalities." If a reported UFO were to be the real thing and to actually be ET, if one takes the attitude that UFOs can't possibly exist or, God forbid, possibly have an ET connection, one will obviously never see the real thing if it were standing there staring him/her right in the face. One has to carefully sift through the majority of available evidence in order to make a valid final determination. Those that spend most of their lives arguing over generalities without examining the specifics of cases never afford themselves the opportunity of making any sort of fair determination. I finished my reply by asking Ed why he posted the original _entire_ piece because it just didn't seem to fit in what I considered to be basically civilized, intelligent, focused discussions emanating from EBK's list. My thought was that people in the House, Senate, or any administrative body don't speak to each other like this. We shouldn't either. It is possible I missed his answer, although I searched for it for quite some time afterwards. However, after thinking about it at various times since then and seeing to where this recent series of "Obergian?" posts has progressed and thinking about why, I now believe I have a better understanding of Stewart's (and one or two others) approach to ufology. I suspect Stewart's response to Westrum's "Failure Of The 'Science' Of Obergian Debunking" and the direction this thread has taken is probably the answer to my original question; i.e. he sometimes, consciously or unconsciously, purposely or not (take your pick), tends to steer us away from a) "keeping an open mind" regarding UFOs and b) helping us stay tightly focused on the original topic. Jerome Clark's posting of Ron Westrum's paper, The Promise Of Ufology, http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m03-024.shtml was originally meant to be a counter to some of the things said by James Oberg a number of years ago and was resubmitted by Jerome simply to remind us all that we still need to keep an open mind on probably the most enigmatic, persistent subject of our century which, one can notice by simply reading all these recent posts, is capable of inciting some extremely heated debate. Serious researchers know it certainly has been a slow and difficult task to accumulate enough of the right type of data over the years which scientists might find useful for study; especially considering the limited resources available to UFO researchers and the sporadic nature of the ufo "appearances" themselves. Additionally, anyone consulting the many available books, etc. discovered for themselves the Condon Committee did not arrive easily at its earlier conclusion that we cannot justify further research into UFOs. (See my website for a readily available, accurately footnoted replay concerning the Colorado project.) I know Jerome has most probably gone into even greater depth in his UFO Encyclopedia. Unfortunately, Stewart fails to realize (or consciously chooses not to) that finally, through the hard work of a number of researchers, enough data has accumulated to at least pique the curiosity of today's scientists and to inspire them to put "Science" back on the path to a bit more enlightened approach regarding UFOs; i.e. the Sturrock Workshop _did_ indeed see fit to overturn the part of the 1969 Colorado Project pronouncement that stated "...further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced thereby." There was evidently enough solidity to some of the material presented at the workshop that finally got the scientists to give it second thought. It is true they didn't feel the ETH was conclusively proven by what was submitted. However, as a group they decided that as remote as it might be, based on the evidence presented by GEPAN/SEPRA plus other physical & biological documented presentations, all of which hadn't been available to previous serious reviews by the establishment, it was not "totally" impossible. A long shot, yes, but the majority of the reviewers chose not to go down in history as people refusing to at least keep some sort of open mind on the subject. I, for one, will never understand what _some_ people find so wrong with this. It sounds intelligent to me. Simple open-mindedness vs close-mindedness. There is some interesting unexplained evidence. BTW, I finished reading Michael Swords and Mark Rodeghier's writeups on the workshop and found them both to be excellently done. Readers can obtain same from The J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies simply by subscribing to their journal; The International UFO Reporter, 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60659. Both gentlemen made presentations at the historic workshop. If other members of the workshop, review scientists and/or presenters, write any additional impressions of same, I hope we all intend to read those as well. Regarding Ed's Statements Concerning the Sturrock Workshop's Findings: Apparently, Ed is not happy with the preceding interpretation I've presented, stating instead that this is Sturrock's own interpretation and that the other members of the committee didn't agree with his (Sturrock's) conclusion. (Attempting to draw a parallel to what happened with the Condon study.) http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m19-008.shtml But, from all I've been able to ascertain, this is not the case as we shall momentarily see. If I've understood all the material I've read in the 60 or so postings (and it would be easy to miss something), Ed also believes that Condon was pretty much totally correct in his original conclusion. Unfortunately, if one were to completely buy into all of Ed's statements regarding the Sturrock Workshop's findings, he/she would also have to come to the following conclusion: When Stewart says that Condon was _totally_ correct in his original pronouncement, he's also basically saying any inspired discoveries regarding "earthlights" which Paul Devereux makes in attempting to prove the "believers" wrong, have no value to science either. ... Obviously, many skeptics as well as many members of the other side would tell you this is absurd.* Of course, Ed will attempt to rationalize his way out of this dilemma but, no matter how hard he may try, it is obvious he will fail. Mind you, I'm not putting Ed in this corner, he's put himself there. He's lost points with intelligent skeptics as well as skeptic believers. http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m15-013.shtml Regarding Ed's Statements that Jerome Clark is Attempting to Rewrite UFO History: To check the validity of Ed's interpretation, any interested reader can click on any or all of the following to get the complete picture regarding the Sturrock Committee's findings, and decide for _themselves_ who is really attempting to rewrite history regarding same, Stewart or Clark. Don't listen to Clark, don't listen to Stewart and don't listen to me. Here it is, read it. http://www.abcnews.com:80/sections/science/DailyNews/ufo980629.html http://www.jse.com/PR_UFO_98.html http://www.jse.com/ufo_reports/Sturrock/toc.html http://www.jse.com/skeptics.html Getting back to my original thoughts concerning Ed's approach to ufology. What _is_ interesting is what has happened to this original thread from its inception. I've noted that Stewart, although he claims Clark is doing this to him, keeps finding it necessary to prod and attack Clark (the person) with inflammatory language, rather than sticking to "Obergian facts." (i.e. facts directly concerning Oberg) That's what the title of these posts said we should be doing. Sound familiar? It's exactly what was going on back in 1996. (i.e. note paragraph 4 from the bottom in URL below) http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m10-032.shtml A partial effect of this is to slowly lead us all away from the original discussion and into generalization and low class character attacks, rather than focusing on _facts_ specifically relating to the original topic. Those that want to go back to the Neanderthal "days of yore," attacking one another, please feel free to do so. However, those that do are showing your character flaws. If you can't make your case without this method of approach, you probably have no case. I'm sure Errol will have something interesting to say about it very shortly, if he hasn't been thinking about it already. This researcher proposes we get specific again and recalibrate our focus back to the original topic of this thread. Back to "Obergian Debunking": As a point of information: The Oberg/Cooper website (along with writings from other Obergian critics) should have indicated to anyone taking time to read it that Mr. Oberg evidenced a certain myopic tendency regarding several UFO cases and at least two major researchers of the past, Hynek & McDonald; virtually slandering both of them. These things certainly deserve to be discussed honestly and openly and acknowledged by those that think _everything_ he says is gospel. It is also interesting to note that although the Oberg/Cooper site has been around for more than two years, neither Ed nor any other skeptic has seen fit to comment upon any of the parts that pertain to Oberg himself. (Even though the "Quebec Skeptics Society" personally asked me to mail them a copy of the rebuttals, which I did. BTW, if they found something dramatically wrong with them, shouldn't they have responded? This was more than a year and a half ago.) http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/jul/m21-012.shtml Perhaps they would like to do so now. It is also interesting that a number of readers emailed me to tell me they felt many of the points I raised concerning Mr. Oberg's gaps of knowledge concerning Hynek, McDonald, and perhaps Cooper as well, were valid ones and yet, _no_ other skeptic has seen fit to take a moment to discuss some of those concerns. They've typically ignored them. Unfortunately, ignoring them doesn't make them go away. Mr. Oberg posted his own _generalized_ negative comments re the site but never answered my invitation to "discuss" any _specific_ item he felt was inaccurate. I even offered to amend said item, if he'd simply demonstrate its inaccuracy to most of us. Of course, again, it was easier (safer, less time consuming?) _not_ to bother. http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/mar/m11-023.shtml It should be readily apparent to most from the preceding that if there is any "failure" here, it is a failure of the _skeptics_, for the past two years, to respond to _specific_ criticisms that were raised regarding Mr. Oberg, stemming from his Cooper essay located at the websites below. Well, since the skeptics have finally brought up the subject, I'll focus in on some of those things in upcoming posts. As one can readily see, an honest discussion of these items is certainly long overdue and may even fit the main topic of this thread a bit more closely than some of the generalities we've all been reading. Skeptical of _some_ skeptics, (and ready to adjust anything that _most of us_ feel needs adjusting) Jerry Cohen Author: Oberg/Cooper rebuttals Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ UFOmind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/ * I'm certainly not saying Paul's efforts explain 100% of the UFOs reported but, if his data, after it is examined by the main scientific body proves to be correct, at least a portion of UFOs reported certainly could be from this source. P.S. To be helpful, as discussions progress, you can probably most easily maneuver between the essays from my site, as the URLs I have included there were intended to make dissection much easier.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 Re: Abduction of Blacks? From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:25:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:12:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Abduction of Blacks? >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:30:51 -0500 >>Hello everybody, >>Today in Brazil is 'Black Consciousness Day'. >>I was wondering if anyone had heard of the abduction of somebody >>of black skin? >> Thiago Ticchetti >>* Eles est=E3o aqui * >Here in the US, there are African-American abductees. I've known >a couple. Also gay men and women, Catholics, Orthodox Jews, you >name it. Whatever the abduction phenomenon is, it doesn't spare >anyone because of their race. >My impression, though, is that the percentage of black abductees >is lower than the percentage of black people in the general >population. My guess is that blacks as a rule are less likely to >report an abduction experience to a largely white world of >abductees and abduction researchers. >Greg Sandow =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Hi Greg, Re: black abductees. For many reasons there isn't much information coming out of Africa in regard to abductions. If there are any researchers or 'ufologists' with any African based reports of abductions I for one would be interested in hearing about them. And I concur with Greg. (In spite of the fact that we know many of the same people) that I know Blacks, Whites, Latinos, Orientals, gay, straight, rich, poor, etc. abductees. Race doesn't seem to matter to our friends from "Tralfamador." <VBG> I still chuckle to myself when I think of that 'theory' that states that all abduction reports are based on American fears of immigrant Latinos! (Or some such nonsense. <LOL>) Peace, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net INTRUDERS FOUNDATION/ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 Alien-Sex? From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:04:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:19:01 -0500 Subject: Alien-Sex? Hi List, I'm working now on a article about so-called Alien-Sex on the abduction-scene. For this work I'm search furthermore articles AND cartoons/pictures etc to this matter. Can anyone send me URLs in this view on which I can find material to this matter???
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 Re: Abduction of Blacks? From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:10:00 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:21:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? >Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:25:25 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? <snip> >I still chuckle to myself when I think of that 'theory' that >states that all abduction reports are based on American fears of >immigrant Latinos! (Or some such nonsense. <LOL>) >Peace, >John Velez John, I don't know about you, but I'm terribly terrified of immigrant Latinos! So much so that I live in a major city in the south of Texas (and have for the last quarter of a century) which is probably 70% Latino, although who really knows? Now I hear that Latinos live as far north in this country as New Yawk City! I'm surrounded! Seriously, point is: Unless our alien abductors simply prefer 'Merican citizens and/or green card immigrants, howcome native Latin American and African countries don't seem to be afflicted by alien abductions to the same extent that good old America is? Couldn't be due to a deficit of abduction researchers and amateur hypnotists, could it? What I mean is: surely the phenomenon would manifest itself in _some_ way in those countries, via the psychological or pediatric literature, if it is indeed as pandemic in this country as everyone seems to think it is. So where's the buried racism in the abduction literature? In the applied assumption that, in the main, only norteamericanos are worth abducting? Which would make the literalists the offenders, no? (Unless they can demonstrate something on the order of an abduction "democracy.") But who am I to say that culture has anything to do with the abduction phenomenon?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 Re: Abduction of Blacks? From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:16:13 -0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:25:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? >From: Tim Brigham <devilsad@ksinc.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:54:39 -0600 >>>From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:19:25 -0200 >>>Subject: Abduction of Blacks? >>>Hello everybody, >>>Today in Brazil is 'Black Consciousness Day'. >>>I was wondering if anyone had heard of the abduction of somebody >>>of black skin? >>>Thiago Ticchetti >>>* Eles est=E3o aqui * >Not a "silly question" at all in my opinion, regardless of how >others commented, it brings up an interesting issue. >I'm sure many have noted that most goers of UFO conventions are >caucasian (disproportionately so, it would seem), and informal >survey of literature would seem to suggest that abductions are >reported almost exclusively by caucasians, at least in the >American literature. >Sure, there are exceptions, but the (apparent) lack of >representation among ethnic groups in American abduction reports >is something which I've noticed. >An uncountable number of reasons probably play into this, if my >perceptions are actually correct at all. This is one I'd like to >see Martin Kottmeyer probe (pun highly intended). >Anyone else have comments on what seems to be an amazingly >ignored aspect of the (abduction) phenomenon? >Best, >Tim Brigham Thanks Tim, I think like you. I knew about Barney Hill. Here in Brazil there are the cases of Herminio and Bianca (He's a black man) and Elias Seixas. My main interest was about how many reports about them are told? In 20 cases of abductions, only 1 is with black people...is something to think about, isn't it? Thiago Ticchetti * Eles est=E3o aqui *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 22 Re: Project Silverbug From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:53:15 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:22:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Project Silverbug >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Silverbug >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:08:08 -0000 >>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:00:09 -0800 >>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Silverbug >>Tim, I would like to see your evidence (technical papers, etc.) >>posted on the internet in addition to being described in your >>post. >>Thanks, >>Josh Goldstein >Anyone got a fee web site and scanner? >Of course you could always check out; >www.cufon.org >for a start. >Tim X Hi Tim I'll supply webspace for you and if you want I can scan the pics for you as well. all you will need to do is either post them to me or pop down with them for a day. --- In an infinite universe inifinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm Research page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 Re: Subterranean Base-ic Blues From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:51:26 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:20:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Subterranean Base-ic Blues >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:40:35 EST >Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:56:17 -0500 >Subject: Subterranean Base-ic Blues [was: ...Info? On >>From: "Lynda Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:52:48 -0000 <snip> >>It seems to me that the whole thing involving Doty set up a host >>of myths and disinformation which formed the basis of much >>current Ufology; the idea in hidden underground bases, >>abductions and breeding programmes, the big secret (MJ-12) and >>more. <snip> >There was a time when the US government seemed obsessed with >'burrowing'. The government does in fact have a large number of underground facilities which is not surprising considering that for a long part of the Cold War Mutual Assured Destruction was a basic tenet. >For instance, I used to work three floors down underground in >the Pentagon... It was _so_secure_ there that I could leave Top >Secret documents on the desk and go to lunch! There were so many >security cameras in place that this was _not_ a problem. <snip> Now we are getting into a "war story" which is flat out BS! You are purposefully leaving out an important item to impress the rubes! It doesn't matter whether a facility is above ground or below ground, some facilities are cleared for "Open Storage" of classified information even up to Top Secret. They must meet exacting standards and be approved by the proper authority. In the Pentagon and other places with lots of Top Secret information people tend to become lax. If that was your situation, you, your Top Secret Control Officer and your Security Manager should have paid the penalty. Your outlandish claim that because the facility was underground you could leave Top Secret documents laying around while you went to lunch is tripe. You could only have legally done so in an approved "Open Storage" facility, otherwise you had committed a major insecurity! Above ground, below ground or in the Pentagon, doesn't matter. -- Jan Aldrich former Top Secret Control Officer former Classified Document Custodian former COMSEC Custodian former Security Manager.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 Re: Alien-Sex? From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:20:27 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:46:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien-Sex? >Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:04:52 -0500 >From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com> >Subject: Alien-Sex >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Hi List, >I'm working now on a article about so-called Alien-Sex on the >abduction-scene. For this work I'm search furthermore articles >AND cartoons/pictures etc to this matter. Can anyone send me >URLs in this view on which I can find material to this matter??? >Werner Since you are including cartoon and "pictures," we can assume you will not be treating this subject seriously. When then should anyone reply to your request? -- Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 Re: Abduction of Blacks? From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:39:18 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:50:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:10:00 -0600 (CST) >Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:21:42 -0500 >Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? Previously, Dennis had this to offer regarding the lack of reported abductions of blacks: >Seriously, point is: Unless our alien abductors simply prefer >'Merican citizens and/or green card immigrants, howcome native >Latin American and African countries don't seem to be afflicted >by alien abductions to the same extent that good old America is? >Couldn't be due to a deficit of abduction researchers and >amateur hypnotists, could it? >What I mean is: surely the phenomenon would manifest itself in >_some_ way in those countries, via the psychological or >pediatric literature, if it is indeed as pandemic in this >country as everyone seems to think it is. I think Dennis has a good point. However, regarding the question at hand; why are there few, if any, reported abductions of blacks other than Barney Hill? I'm not so sure there aren't. The key word is, of course, "reported". I have a good friend, who is black, that lives in an area of town where calling the police (even in the event of a violent crime) is virtually a waste of time. Such lack of concern from duty bound officials is hardly conducive to any minority calling authorities should an "alien" abduction or the such occur; talk about a hard story to sell. In rural areas, where some degrees of racism unfortunately still exist, the disappearance of a black man doesn't always bring on the concerns of a white dominated community as one would hope. We like to think of ourselves as progressive. But the truth, I feel, is that we ignore the notion that minorities might be victims of abductions. We justify it by claiming that there "have been no reported instances" of minority abductions and just chalk it up as one of many unsolved mysteries surrounding UFO's. We even ponder the possibility of whether or not aliens prefer abduction of caucasions over blacks or other minorities as a potential explanation to the problem. Is this racism? No. But it is extremely myopic and makes some very broad assumptions about the importance of our own individualities. For instance: I have never met Dennis Stacy, but I bet we look very similar. We both have two eyes, two ears, two legs, two arms, two hands, a nose, a mouth, two feet, etc. We walk, make sounds with our mouths, sit, use our hands for gesturing and we both breath air to survive. In fact, not only do Dennis and I share those same common characteristics with each other, we share them with every person on this planet. To put it simply: To an alien we might very well all look alike, regardless of what color our skin is. Keeping score of who gets abducted based on race or creed is pointless when the odds of getting attention by the media or the authorities so drastically favors the white community. In addition, the odds of getting abducted in the first place may have as much to do with location and opportunity as anything; both of which can be affected by whether or not one is a minority. Barney Hill may have been the first we've heard of, but I'm willing to bet there have been many others. After all, when a large number of white "abductees" claim they were afraid to tell their story for fear of being outcast by society, imagine the mindset of a minority "abductee" already walking that fine line.... Later,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 Re: Alien-Sex? From: Tim Brigham <devilsad@ksinc.net> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:57:49 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:53:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien-Sex? >Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:04:52 -0500 >From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com> >Subject: Alien-Sex >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Hi List, >I'm working now on a article about so-called Alien-Sex on the >abduction-scene. For this work I'm search furthermore articles >AND cartoons/pictures etc to this matter. Can anyone send me >URLs in this view on which I can find material to this matter??? >Werner You might try a web search for the one and only David Huggins. He does paintings (hardcore stuff) of him getting it on with alien chicks. based on real encounters I might add. *grin* there are a few more people who push the alien sex thing almost to the point of fetishism, but i can't recall their names off hand. Ask Jim Moseley of 'Smear', he's into the kinky stuff;) Best, Tim )+( www.ksinc.net/~devilsad/ufo.htm The Devil's Advocate www.ksinc.net/~devilsad/ring.htm Operation MindPhuck
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 Re: Alien-Sex? From: Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <pharaoh@web2000.net> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:02:52 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:56:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien-Sex? >Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:04:52 -0500 >From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com> >Subject: Alien-Sex >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Hi List, >I'm working now on a article about so-called Alien-Sex on the >abduction-scene. For this work I'm search furthermore articles >AND cartoons/pictures etc to this matter. Can anyone send me >URLs in this view on which I can find material to this matter??? >Werner Check: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/1341/index.html The Villas Boas Abduction Case.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 Sanchez-Ocejo: 'Abduction - An Essay' From: Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <pharaoh@web2000.net> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:58:57 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:15:14 -0500 Subject: Sanchez-Ocejo: 'Abduction - An Essay' The hybrid experiments are rare in South America, Villas-Boas' encounter is different and could be compared to those in the United States. Even the entities described, also seemed to share human and 'Gray' features. The motive of the entities are incomprehensible. Their hybrid program can be done today, by human doctors, without resorting to traumatic methods experienced by abductees. There is something other than objective scientific research on their part. We have been able to prove that the sexual-hybrid program is more frequent here, in the United States. There has been thousands of abduction cases reported. Subject to physical-sexual exams and then, left with a psychological program of brain wash, where it was made to believe that the abduction was gratifying and necessary, given as pretext; Universal Love, The Ecology, World Wars, Spiritual Evolution, Etc.... These motives are not excuses for meddling in our freedom. Through history the American people have been known for their fight to defend freedom. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was conceived as the first part of an international bill of rights, after tyrannical and injustices caused by governments like Hitler and Stalin, where millions were murdered only for the sole purpose of seeking their Human Rights, and not accepting the psychological mass manipulation of this tyrants in which their only idea was that of to conquer the World. Afraid of that psychological mass manipulation, the declaration , in one part, proclaims: "freedom of thought, conscience..." And this is the part that most concern UFOlogy as international problem. This entities with their abduction programs, manipulating our conscience throughout the World, are violating our freedom of thought and conscience. As an exile, fleeing from a tyrannical system, that today still controls Cuba, using the latest technique of mental control developed in Russia, was for 40 years used against this nation, as a way of controlling the individual and collective conscience. This sample make me think of the danger, this entities, could make to the United States. These entities, whatever they are, whatever they be and whatever they come from, in one way or the other, they are altering our free will. So far. they have not prevented wars. (World War I, World War II, Corea, Viet-nan, etc.,) They have not avoided the nuclear explosions (Hiroshima, Nagasaki, underground test, neither today, in the Pacific Ocean.) Either they have avoided the ecological problem (Oil spils in the sea, lost of our fauna etc.) There is not a positive act in which they have demonstrated what they profess. Therefore, we call them liars. Their purpose is to manipulate our conscience, through encounter and abductions. This entities are a real danger in our conscience. We need a change in ufology. Comparing it with other sciences, ufology is behind. It is very easy to criticize, and we are spending to much time doing that. The difficulty is to create and advance. The first step is to interfere with the one that cause us the problem. In that way, we send them a message that we are not guinea pigs, and that we have free will. We have to stop, what others nations do not suffer, this physical-psyche challenge. The solution is in our hands. We have to seek it. If the future science is the psyche, we have to begin learning it. We should not play with the egos, neither with the economic aspect. Think about our sons, grandsons and about the future generation. The responsibility is ours and now!. Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo Miami UFO Center Note: Villas-Boas and others Latin American Abduction cases are on our web page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/1341/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 Sanchez-Ocejo: 'Ufology Demography' - An Essay From: Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <pharaoh@web2000.net> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:06:38 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:16:18 -0500 Subject: Sanchez-Ocejo: 'Ufology Demography' - An Essay The current era is characterized by the acceleration of all human things; for example, our own multiplication. In this moment we experience an explosive mutation. At the beginning of the Century, existed in the World, some 1,500 million of human beings. Today that quantity have multiplied four time, counting the explosive phase of the human progression. Some sociologist visualize a super population in an immediate future. After the World War II, this process increased with the sexual freedom movements, as the 'Hippie' era. At the beginning, the entities that visited us were of the Adamsky type; tall, blond, blue eyes, clarifying that they came from different planets and constellations: Venus, Mars, Pleiades etc.. Later, this entities were displaced by those, which today we call the "Gray"; small, large headed, black eyes, long arms and of lizard aspect. These entities taking advantage of the sexual explosion and the liberal character of the North American, found the perfect country that could easily assimilate their abductions, implants and the creation of hybrids. The Europeans and the South Americans with more traditionalism, might have caused a negative impact in their projects. In China, where the government have impose strict natal control and families are allowed to have only two children, their hybrid program would be very difficult to follow. Another example is their program of cattle mutilation. In India, cows are considered sacred. The cattle mutilations in that country might cause a negative religious movement against the 'Gray'. In India, there is not a single cattle mutilation!. In the Arabic countries, where infidelity is paid with their life, there is not a single case of sexual abduction!. This is broadly the reason of the presence of the 'Gray' in our society. We are facing the worse entity that visit us. In addition to being ugly, they are deaf-mute, have lack of feelings, are liars and want to create an hybrid race against our will, to improve their physical defects. Their only weapon is an extraordinary ability to control the human psyche, manipulating it thoroughly. It is here where the danger lies and where we should react. Already we know cases of abductions, where the persons are affected by stress, altering the Functional Neuroendocrine and affecting their immune systems, causing different illness. Some abductees have experienced changes, becoming schizophrenic, changing in moods and emotions, ending in depression due to the test done during their abduction and the post abduction mandate, by the 'Gray', to erase the experience from their minds. Most of the time, they can not completely erase the experience, causing "flash back" that affect the abducted person. I do not see any effort in part of the 'Gray' to fix this consequences and the future looks worse. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo Miami UFO Center
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 UK House of Commons/Lords & UFOs? From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:16:16 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:23:50 -0500 Subject: UK House of Commons/Lords & UFOs? Dear Colleagues, Does anyone out there have a full list of the questions which have been raised in the House of Commons & Lords in regard to the UFO subject for 1998? I also require if possible some past cases of UFOs seen over Central London from as far back as 1930. This is for research into an article I am preparing for London readers. Any help with this would be kindly apreciated. Kindest Regards, Roy..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 Re: Abduction of Blacks? From: Pamela Stonebrooke <galactic_diva@telis.org> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:49:17 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:27:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? Hi All, >Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:25:25 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? >>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Abduction of Blacks? >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:30:51 -0500 >>>Hello everybody, >>>Today in Brazil is 'Black Consciousness Day'. >>>I was wondering if anyone had heard of the abduction of somebody >>>of black skin? >>> Thiago Ticchetti >>>* Eles est=E3o aqui * >>Here in the US, there are African-American abductees. I've known >>a couple. Also gay men and women, Catholics, Orthodox Jews, you >>name it. Whatever the abduction phenomenon is, it doesn't spare >>anyone because of their race. >>My impression, though, is that the percentage of black abductees >>is lower than the percentage of black people in the general >>population. My guess is that blacks as a rule are less likely to >>report an abduction experience to a largely white world of >>abductees and abduction researchers. >>Greg Sandow >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> >Hi Greg, >Re: black abductees. >For many reasons there isn't much information coming out of >Africa in regard to abductions. If there are any researchers or >'ufologists' with any African based reports of abductions I for >one would be interested in hearing about them. >And I concur with Greg. (In spite of the fact that we know many >of the same people) that I know Blacks, Whites, Latinos, >Orientals, gay, straight, rich, poor, etc. abductees. Race >doesn't seem to matter to our friends from "Tralfamador." <VBG> >I still chuckle to myself when I think of that 'theory' that >states that all abduction reports are based on American fears of >immigrant Latinos! (Or some such nonsense. <LOL>) >Peace, >John Velez There was an interesting article called 'Abductions in Africa' by Cynthia Hind in UFO Mag., volume 13 No. 8. A bizarre account of a woman named Gamida who, on one occasion, saw a monk-like figure by her bed. I too, have a monk account from an experiencer I'm in contact with. Another of Gamida's encounters involved a rape scenario...she felt the hand of a gnarled claw (sound Reptilian maybe?) Marks and scratches on her body. Another interesting account of two Caucasian women in Johannesburg, SA, describing a device used on them to draw fluid samples. Fairly detailed descriptions without the use of hypnotic regression. They spoke of an oval egg-shaped craft and the article includes a rather detailed drawing. Also, an account of a schooleacher in Zimbabwe. After his encounter he suffered some health problems and discovered that a rib was missing... Cynthia says that there is no doubt in her mind that the people involved had no knowledge of recent abduction cases in the US. She finds that most are reluctant to say anything about such encounters. I believe she garnered the accounts from a radio show she did in Johannesburg where a large number of people called in to report sightings. P.S. to Joshman... Regarding alien "justice"...I'm hard pressed to find it, much less define it on "this" planet...but
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 Re: Subterranean Base-ic Blues From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:03:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:55:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Subterranean Base-ic Blues >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:40:35 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Subterranean Base-ic Blues [was: ...Info? On 'Branton'] >>From: "Lynda Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:52:48 -0000 ><snip> >>It seems to me that the whole thing involving Doty set up a host >>of myths and disinformation which formed the basis of much >>current Ufology; the idea in hidden underground bases, >>abductions and breeding programmes, the big secret (MJ-12) and >>more.> ><snip> >There was a time when the US government seemed obsessed with >'burrowing'. No one (?) doubts the existence of undergroud facilities that may be on government and military property. The subject came up with respect to the Archeluta Mesa north of Dulce, NM. The claim was a large UGB under the Mesa. No evidence of same, however,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 Abductions In British Columbia From: Bill Oliver <boliver@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:02:48 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:52:03 -0500 Subject: Abductions In British Columbia This article was originally published in the prestigious Flying Saucer Review, Volume 34, #1, March, 1989. There is no way of knowing exactly when the abduction phenomenon began. However, Graham Conway, arguably the foremost abduction researcher in Canada, has been tracking contact and abduction cases for over 20 years, long before most of us realized that these cases were not only not rare occurrences, but have been fairly. Many of the cases detailed in the following article by Mr. Conway are either still being monitored, or are still under investigation. Report From British Columbia, Canada: An Emerging Epidemic? by Graham Conway, FSR Consultant, (British Columbia) The last eighteen months (I am writing this in July 1988) have clearly brought about a public awareness of, and, to a remarkable degree, a widespread discussion of -- and acceptance of -- the "Contactee-Abduction Phenomenon".=B9 It may be more accurate to state that this certainly holds true as regards North America, but clearly other countries are focusing on their own brands of interference and are reluctantly admitting that they too are not immune. Several authors, particularly Budd Hopkins and Whitley Strieber, have certainly been responsible for this opening of the door, with their books, plus the various TV and radio programmes put out throughout Canada. And even more astonishing, to me, was the overnight "about-face" displayed by our media. As if on a signal, the snide remarks and open laughter had all but vanished. To the "Old Guard", folk like Jacques Vall=E9e, John Keel, Leo Sprinkle, Brad Steiger, all this public revelation was of course long overdue: they had all been saying this for thirty years or more. In fact, John Keel, in his letter to FSR (32/6) had called it "re-discovering the wheel". That is very true, the only difference being that we now have a very different audience. We are into a whole new generation now of involved albeit reluctant witnesses. When Adamski, Fry, Bethurum et al. were tramping the lecture circuit, their voices were faint and their audiences small. The shouts of "hoax", "fraud", "money-seeker", were louder and more numerous then. Today we have a generation who were then either not yet born or small children, and who have grown up in a climate that is vastly more "accepting" towards "Space Age" ideas, and where the "impossible" can at least be considered. Spotlight on British Columbia My purpose in the present report is to draw attention to some possibly so far unnoticed aspects of the phenomenon. Canada appears so far to be absent from the recently published record. This country stretches for five thousand miles from sea to sea. I must plead forgiveness for citing this obvious fact, but it is necessary, lest I may later find some sharp reader pointing out to me something of which I am not yet aware. So, to "play it safe", I shall concentrate on my own section of the country, the Province of British Columbia, and direct my comments to this Province alone. Having been engaged in UFO research for forty-two years myself, it was not until 1976 that I came across my first "contactee/abductee". His story had made the headlines in a small-town newspaper, about ten miles from where I live. And his story was absurd -- but then aren't they all? Having met this man, I could not help being impressed by his personal conviction that he had been "chosen". But there again -- aren't they all? And he "had a mission -- a job to do". Don't they all? Today, twelve years later, he and I are still in touch, and his tenacity and sincerity are still as impressive as on Day One. Since that meeting with him, I have recorded the stories of twenty-seven contactees, with the majority of whom I still maintain a link. Along the way, I have also met others, who have told me similar stories. Of this group of 27, eight are men and nineteen are women, and their ages range from about thirty to sixty. They are principally of the white or Caucasian race, with the exception of one native Canadian Indian. Thirteen of the group are married or involved in a fragile relationship that often shows signs of crumbling because of the ongoing UFO involvement that is not of their seeking. They also all have the annoying, almost daily interference of "poltergeist" - type activity, which is hard to accept and even harder to ignore, and yet harder still to explain to another person, particularly those of the "scientifically-minded" variety. This group of 27 individuals range from those who report getting unsought images that appear on movie film (one woman has OVER THREE HUNDRED SUCH MOVIES), to cases of bank computers that shut down as soon as the lady in question enters the room; cases of "one-armed bandits" that cease to function at Las Vegas; tape-recorders that refuse to work; TV sets that turn off by themselves and come back on again showing a different channel! In addition, we have street-lights that come on or go out as the "subject" approaches the spot; compact-disc-players that eject the record right across the room; cars that won't start for their owners, but will for anybody else; and telephones that are regularly replaced by the Telephone Company every three months because the wires burn out. Then we have humming and buzzing noises that drive the occupant from a room; odours that nauseate; radio-telephones that switch to the emergency channel without the aid of human hand; black helicopters that are unmarked and have opaque windows; plus smaller red (and also blue) "child-size" "choppers" traveling at high speed at tree-top level, which pursue the victim or buzz his home at roof-top level. You might think this enumeration is enough. But it is only a part of the list! Some of these people whom I have met have other equally astonishing attributes or faculties. They can see the radio waves inside micro-ovens; feel the degree of heat that radiates from coloured paper; they are monitored (?) by small balls of light; indulge in automatic writing; or, without warning, find themselves involved in scenes from the future or the past, in which they are the observers, and yet themselves knowing all the thoughts and emotions of the participants (sometimes a truly terrifying and disgusting experience). They can read minds, see auras, and detect the contents of a package without opening it. And so it goes on... 'Body Implants' In his article "What They are Doing To Us", in FSR 33/3, Budd Hopkins examined a topic about which, I venture to say, we know very, very little indeed. He relates the story of a man whom he calls "Earl", and the events surrounding "Earl's" unfortunate wife. He describes her as suffering nightmares, and clawing in her sleep at an area near the bridge of her nose, between her eyes, and screaming for them to "take it out -- it's hurting!" Well now, in the spring of 1988 I interviewed a family man on Vancouver Island who, when I asked as a mere matter of routine, whether he had any unusual marks on his body, replied: "No. But I have this little ball=B2 by my left eye, near the bridge of my nose". With that, he pushed gently on the skin, and the resulting white mark showed a small ball clearly delineated. When I asked him how long he had had this ball, he replied: "About three months before, it was down in my cheek, alongside my right nostril!" Some months later, I told this part of that man's story to another very involved abductee, and she said: "Oh -- I've got one too -- right here -- I always wondered what it was!" With that, she pressed on the indentation at the top of the bridge of her nose, and it appeared also on her, though less than in the case of the man quoted above. In Budd Hopkins' report, "Earl" was forced to watch his wife having a thin probe inserted into her vagina. One woman contactee whom I interviewed in a town north of Vancouver told me that she "had something inserted on three occasions". And she said, angrily, "They had tried to make me believe I was doing it myself!" When I asked her what it was that they had inserted, she replied: "I don't know what it was. But I do know what it WASN'T". This happened in her own bedroom, and during the experience she was totally unable to move. This same young, single, lady told me that she felt that "They" had sex with her more than once. When I asked her how she knew this, she replied: "Because of the odour afterwards". This same lady stated in a most emphatic manner that she has a child somewhere, and that she vividly recalls breast-feeding it. (Needless to add that she denies ever having been knowingly pregnant.) The Vancouver lady who has the suspected implant on the bridge of her nose, recalls a very vivid, all-too-real, "dream", in which she is an observer, up in the far corner of a room, watching herself, in an obstetrical position, giving birth to a scaly brown baby that appears to be in a cocoon. Despite her revulsion at the sight, she hears herself screaming "Don't take my baby away!" The small shadowy white figures pay no attention to her protests. I know two ladies who became pregnant. Yet the husband of one of them was sterile, and in the case of the other lady, impregnation from her husband would have been equally impossible, given the circumstances. The first-mentioned of these ladies was visited during the night by two figures that "looked at" the baby in her abdomen, and showed concern for its welfare. And - strange as it may seem - these two mothers, who show all the hallmarks of having been abductees -- have sons called "ADAM"! A nurse who works in a hospital near to where I live, tells of a male baby that was delivered in 1972. The mother was a sixteen-year-old native Indian. She had no idea who was the father of the child. This particular baby was so different from other children that the hospital staff actually referred to it always as "The Alien". It was later adopted by a family in another part of British Columbia. Again, in that same year, this same nurse, who was working in the nursery of the hospital, saw another child that struck her as extremely unusual. Over the whole time that it was there, she said it never cried, nor did it ever sleep -- at least never when she was on duty. It seemed to communicate with its eyes, and required her to pick it up, and this she frequently did, talking to it a great deal. Although she had quite a large grown family of her own, she says she had an overpowering feeling that this infant was a part of herself. Even at that very early age, she felt that the small being could communicate telepathically. It would indeed be interesting to know how many more "strange" babies have been noticed lately in hospitals around the world. On page 16 of the same issue of FSR (33/3) Budd Hopkins touches upon the emotional upheaval involved in alien contact, and its often tragic results. I too know of one contactee who is now in a mental institution; of another who is heavily into drugs and alcohol; of another that has attempted suicide; plus one more who has seriously considered suicide. Along the way, over the years, I have developed a strong rapport with some of these abductees. The result is that they will tell me things that they won't tell even to their own close relatives. This, in itself, can make for some quite considerable and embarrassing difficulties at times, of which one of the very least is the problem of breach of confidence. As researchers in this field will readily confirm, the participants in contactee cases are usually quite paranoid about any disclosure that might in any way identify them. (Knowing what they have gone through and are still going through, I in no way fault them for being unduly cautious.) Sexual Assaults by 'Humans?' Recently something emerged that "blew me away", as we say. In an interview which I had with a single-parent lady, the question of choice of a living location was touched upon. (Contactees appear to move around a lot -- maybe subconsciously attempting to escape?) This particular lady told me, jokingly, that her sister-in-law is always "pulling her leg" about not living on the ground floor. Suddenly alerted by this remark, I asked her why? Then it came out that she had been attacked on the street and sexually assaulted. At that point -- figuratively speaking -- "the roof fell in" for me. For I suddenly realized that this woman was the FIFTH abductee/contactee of whom I knew who had either been sexually assaulted or sexually abused. Later, when, in a tone of amazement, I was telling all this to yet another woman abductee, she waited quietly until I had finished my account and then added: "You can make me Number Six." Since then, I now make a point, if the circumstances permit, of putting this very question to them right at the outset. Another contactee of whom I have heard was also the victim of sexual assault. She lives in this same Province of British Columbia, though many hours journey from here. Talk about double jeopardy! What a horrendous load to have to carry around with you! I cannot help but wonder how many victims of some sort of sexual assault are also abductees, and whether there can be a link? What more motivation for suicide could a woman have than this duo! Body Scars I would now like to comment on another point in Budd Hopkins' article, namely his mention of disfiguring scars on the bodies of abductees. It happened recently that a lady abductee, a friend of mine, who was suspected of having breast cancer, had to have a routine X-ray examination. While preparing her for the examination, the nurse asked her: "When did you have the operations on your lymph glands?" "Never!" promptly replied my friend. "Oh, come now", said the nurse. "You must have. You have a scar under each arm!" Since then, this lady has found that her husband has a similar scar under one arm, and her mother and her grandson have them too. It is quite possible that her children also have them, but they refuse to comment. By a remarkable coincidence (?) another family of contactees, who live less than ten miles away, have also reported that one of their members has such a scar. And once again I ask: dare we to dwell upon this, and dare we to wonder how many others there are around the world who carry this hidden personal record? And for what purpose? My own researches indicate what has already been announced long ago namely that we have among us, established here already within our society, a new breed of "super-kid". 'The Light People"' We also have contactees who report holding ongoing conversations (during sleep, they think), with beings whom they call "the light people", whose purpose seems to be to educate, to solve problems, and to provide glimpses into the immediate future. Often these contactees awaken in the morning with aching necks and shoulders, complaining of feeling exhausted, as if they had worked all night, rather than having supposedly slept the normal eight hours. Are these pure energy forms, described as "the light people", also part of the same general phenomenon responsible for abductions and impregnations and monitorings, and for the removal of ova or of sperm (as one male witness has told me happened to him on two occasions)? Some Concluding Thoughts In closing these notes, I wish to emphasize once more that my statements relate solely to the Pacific Coast area of this vast country of Canada. It is very probable that other researchers across the nation will confirm that similar types of events are happening in their particular communities, be it Alberta, or Ontario, or Quebec, or New Brunswick, etc. I suspect very strongly that they are. In fact, I will go so far as to say that if ANYONE stretches his arms out wide he or she will be able to touch, within their own circle of friends, some person, or more likely some persons, who are very much involved in this emerging epidemic. And, of course, I have come across other oddities too. Living as I do in a racially mixed city, I know of only one (first generation) Oriental abductee. I know of no other Asians, and no blacks. Furthermore, why is it that neither blind people nor physically handicapped people, ever seem to report involvement (The faculties of being able to see, or being mobile, are not a required ingredient in the bizarre complexities of the abduction scenario... OR ARE THEY?) How does it come about, moreover, that I never hear of reports from "street people" -- i.e., people on the streets? Many of them are very alert, fast-thinking, philosophical too, and also extremely observant. Am I to believe that nothing is happening to THEM? Well, yes, of course it might be argued that the answer is that I don't mix in those particular social and ethnic circles. But on the other hand, I do have numerous well-established "pipelines" that should provide a trickle of something... And, to date, they have not. So far I know of five families where three generations are clearly involved in this process of "monitoring" and sample-taking. But so far I am unable to detect any common denominators. Certainly none are apparent on the surface. Does location have any significance, I wonder? Also, what about such aspects as profession, or religious activity, or absence thereof? The questions are endless, the answers almost non-existent. And, as Whitley Strieber has already commented, "THEY" will presumably only reveal the solution if and when "THEY" want to. Until then, the beat goes on. NOTES AND REFERENCES (1) I employ the terms "abductee" and "contactee" interchangeably, since in so many cases both contact and abduction are recognized. And, in cases where only contact is admitted by the individual involved, he or she may very likely be still unaware that abduction also took place. (2) [Note by Editor.] I have personally observed, over a period of many years, the presence of one of these immensely hard little balls just below the skin of a human body. It had been there for at least 40 years. Then, one day, the person, in whose body it was, "woke up", and realized what the thing might be. The man at once rushed to inspect and, lo, the ball was already gone! It would be interesting if we could hear of other such cases where an "implant" vanishes as soon as its significance is perceived. -- G.C. Since this article was published, many more abduction claims have been made in BC. We stopped keeping track of the exact numbers once it passed the lofty 200 mark. Many of these new cases are of extremely high strangeness and credibility.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 New CIA Info On 'U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:54:07 GMT Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:05:48 -0500 Subject: New CIA Info On 'U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue The quote is a headline on p. 72 of the book, 'The CIA And The U-2 Program, 1954-1974', which is marked 'Secret' but just has been declassified and released on CIA's site. The information found on the page mentioned and the one following it will remind many of the CIA report which was published in August last year and authored by Gerald K. Haines. But although much of the information is identical, new and unknown pieces can be found. For those who would like to compare, Haines' report is available on CIA's site at: http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ufo.html Before bringing the new material I would like to include the e-mail which put me on the track. After that I'll quote from the pages mentioned. Note: CIA's 'Center for the Study of Intelligence' is at http://www.odci.gov/csi The e-mail can be found at http://www.ufomind.com/military/aircraft/skunkworks/mailing/msg01548.shtml ******* Skunk Works Mailing List No Title Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:04:12 -0500 From: Joe Donoghue The book, 'The CIA And The U-2 Program, 1954-1974', has been posted on the CIA's Center for the Study of Intelligence web site: http://www.odci.gov/csi/books/U2/index.htm Their 'What's New' page says "July 14, 1998" but it was not there yesterday. Appears to have all the same blacked-out areas as the book presented at the conference. It has been scanned in so you have to load it a page at a time. Joe Donoghue ******* The pages are at: http://www.odci.gov/csi/books/U2/gifs/00000086.gif and http://www.odci.gov/csi/books/U2/gifs/00000087.gif *** U-2s, UFOs, AND OPERATION BLUE BOOK High-altitude testing of the U-2 soon led to an unexpected side effect - a tremendous increase in reports of unidentified flying objects (UFOs). In the mid-1950s, most commercial airliners flew at altitudes between 10,000 and 20,000 feet and military aircraft like the B-47s and B-57s operated at altitudes below 40,000 feet. Consequently, once U-2s started flying at altitudes above 60,000 feet, air-traffic controllers began receiving increasing numbers of UFO reports. Such reports were most prevalent in the early evening hours from pilots of airliners flying from east to west. When the sun dropped below the horizon of an airliner flying at 20,000 feet, the plane was in darkness. But, if a U-2 was airborne in the vicinity of the airliner at the same time, its horizon from an altitude of 60,000 feet was considerably more distant, and, being so high in the sky, its silver wings would catch and reflect the rays of the sun and appear to the airliner pilot, 40,000 feet below, to be fiery objects. Even during daylight hours, the silver bodies of the high-flying U-2s could catch the sun and cause reflections or glints that could be seen at lower altitudes and even on the ground. At this time, no one believed manned flight was possible above 60,000 feet, so no one expected to see an object so high in the sky. Not only did the airline pilots report their sightings to air-traffic controllers, but they and ground-based observers also wrote letters to the Air Force unit at Wright Air Development Command in Dayton charged with investigating such phenomena. This, in turn, led to to the Air Force's Operation BLUE BOOK. Based at Wright-Patterson, the operation collected all reports of UFO sightings. Air Force investigators then attempted to explain such sightings by linking them to natural phenomena. BLUE BOOK investigators regularly called on the Agency's Project Staff in Washington to check reported UFO sightings against U-2 flight logs. This enabled the investigators to eliminate the majority of UFO reports, although they could not reveal to the letter writers the true cause of the UFO sightings. U-2 and later OXCART flights accounted for more than one-half of all UFO reports during the late 1950s and most of the 1960s." *** The following synopsis of 'The CIA And The U-2 Program, 1954-1974' can be found at http://www.odci.gov/csi/books/U2/synop.htm Stig ******* UNCLASSIFIED Synopsis The CIA and the U-2 Program, 1954-1974 *** This volume presents to scholars and the public the CIA's newly declassified internal history of the U-2 program. The original study, written by Gregory W. Pedlow and Donald E. Welzenbach for the CIA History Staff in the 1980s, was published in 1992 under the title 'The Central Intelligence Agency and Overhead Reconnaissance: The U-2 and OXCART Programs, 1954-1974'. Sections of that study on the U-2 program have been included here to mark the occasion of the September 1998 conference 'The U-2: A Revolution in Intelligence'. The entire study is being reviewed under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act. The product of a remarkable collaboration between the Central Intelligence Agency, the United States Air Force, Lockheed Corporation, and other suppliers, the U-2 collected intelligence that revolutionized American intelligence analysis of the Soviet threat. Although the U-2 has been one of America's best known intelligence achievements, significant aspects of the U-2's story have remained unknown outside the US Government. This volume tells much of that story in a clear and engaging manner, providing a fuller context for understanding some of the most dangerous moments of the Cold War. The U-2 stands as a monument to the many ways in which intelligence has upheld the security of the United States and furthered the possibilities for peace around the world. UNCLASSIFIED ***
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 Re: Abduction of Blacks From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:43:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:13:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks >Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:10:00 -0600 (CST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? >>Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:25:25 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? ><snip> >>I still chuckle to myself when I think of that 'theory' that >>states that all abduction reports are based on American fears of >>immigrant Latinos! (Or some such nonsense. <LOL>) >>Peace, >>John Velez >John, >I don't know about you, but I'm terribly terrified of immigrant >Latinos! So much so that I live in a major city in the south of >Texas (and have for the last quarter of a century) which is >probably 70% Latino, although who really knows? Now I hear that >Latinos live as far north in this country as New Yawk City! I'm >surrounded! You bet Sasquatch, 'so ju betta be nice meng!' <G> >Seriously, point is: Unless our alien abductors simply prefer >'Merican citizens and/or green card immigrants, howcome native >Latin American and African countries don't seem to be afflicted >by alien abductions to the same extent that good old America is? Of course there are no 'numbers' available on such a thing, but the folks that I've met here in "New Yawk" (A couple of hundred over 5 years) are a fairly well mixed group ethnically and economically. There are also cultural factors that come into play. Some cultures are less tolerant of such reports (people can become stigmatized for life in certain societies) others are simply more tight lipped than others etc. etc. etc. Lots of things to consider when asking questions like this. Not everyone is as open or 'bust out' as Americans. >Couldn't be due to a deficit of abduction researchers and >amateur hypnotists, could it? Not always so Dennis. I am currently communicating with a psychiatrist from Brazil who has been encountering people reporting 'UFO/abduction experiences' in his private practice. I have also exchanged e-mail with a shrink from Mexico City who was encountering the same thing. Both gentlemen contacted me initially via/because of the IF website. >What I mean is: surely the phenomenon would manifest itself in >_some_ way in those countries, via the psychological or >pediatric literature, if it is indeed as pandemic in this >country as everyone seems to think it is. Greg Sandow spent some time looking through the psychological publications and could not find _anything_ dealing with abductions or abductees. Why would other countries be any different in their "professional indifference" to something which according to them; cannot be happening because it isn't possible! And much less the pediatric literature. Too far out for them meng! <G> > (Unless they can demonstrate something on the order of an >abduction "democracy.") Come to a support group meeting up here in the Big Apple, Dennis. (Just don't talk to anyone, or look anyone in the eye on the way! <VBEG> In our group you will see the rainbow of human coloration, age, sexual preference, economic condition, and country of origin. At AIC I have members from all over the world. Sweden, UK, Ireland, Mexico, Australia, Canada, Brazil, and on and on. I have no idea how many people in those countries are reporting, but there are apparently (some) who are. Peace, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net INTRUDERS FOUNDATION/ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 NASA Mars Life Project Inspired By The Past From: Stig Agermose Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:05:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:27:25 -0500 Subject: NASA Mars Life Project Inspired By The Past [List only] Source: The Nando Times, http://www2.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/112398/health12_10635_noframes .html Stig ******* When it comes to Mars, NASA looks both forward and backward Copyright =A91998 Nando Media Copyright =A91998 The Associated Press *The Web site of The National Aeronautics & Space Administration. PASADENA, Calif. (November 23, 1998 01:33 a.m. EST http://www.nandotimes.com) -- NASA's latest plan to seek signs of life on Mars would use a rocket developed in 1958 to vault martian rock samples into space for an eventual ride to Earth -- the first time pieces of any planet will have landed here. When robotics expert Brian H. Wilcox was asked what it would take to launch a light spacecraft from the surface of Mars, he turned to declassified plans for the solid-fuel rocket his father, Howard A. Wilcox, worked on during the Cold War. Father and son often discussed the rocket, which was developed in 1958 at the China Lake Naval Weapons Station in the shadow of the southern Sierra Nevada near Ridgecrest. After some tweaking, that concept has now become the basis for the mini-Mars Ascent Vehicle -- part of NASA's $3 billion plan to reorganize Mars exploration for the first decade of the new millennium. At a relatively inexpensive $30 million, the so-called mini-MAV is consistent with NASA's "faster, cheaper, better" era of space exploration. A draft of the Mars program overhaul, including the mini-MAV, will be reviewed Tuesday. Then in February, NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., will announce whether it can carry out the program within a strict $300 million annual budget. NASA wants to mount the mini-MAV -- at about 3 feet and 200 pounds, smaller than comparable liquid-fuel rockets -- on rover-lander missions flown every two years. Each rover would place rock cores in canisters that the rocket would shoot into low orbit. The canisters later would be retrieved by Mars orbiters for return to Earth. NASA's revised blueprint for Mars exploration also incorporates low-cost "micromissions" -- balloons, airplanes or little devices that dig into the surface -- that could act as scouts for larger missions. "Conceptually it appears doable, but you've got to look at this very closely, make sure you've got your (financial) commitments," said Carl Pilcher, NASA science director for solar system exploration in Washington. With the international space station project sucking up federal dollars, NASA's new Mars plan relies on participation of the French, European and Italian space agencies, as well as private industry. At this point, the French have the largest foreign role. They'll supply the Ariane 5 rocket and 2005 orbiter to rendezvous with the martian samples and haul them home in a U.S.-built capsule. The first Mars samples could touch ground in the Utah desert in 2008. "What we're really after here ... is bringing back samples to terrestrial laboratories that will enable us to determine what the martian environment was like long ago, whether it might have been the kind of environment that could support life and whether or not there is any evidence of life in those samples," said Steve Squyres, a Mars program investigator at Cornell University. If life never arose there, scientists also want to understand why not, how far the chemistry got, how the climate changed and whether it influenced formation of life. The Mars program will eventually help NASA decide whether to put humans on martian soil. There has been talk of a July 2019 manned touchdown to mark the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing. "Ultimately the nature of our questions will reach a level that we will need human explorers to obtain answers," Pilcher said. Louis Friedman, executive director of The Planetary Society, compares the coming decade of Mars travel to the 16th and 17th centuries when England and Portugal sent explorers across the seas every few years. "We're going to hear about new discoveries all the time," he said. NASA's martian blueprint imposes order on plans that until months ago were in disarray and shadowed by international failures. The $1 billion Mars Observer disappeared in space in 1993 and Russia's Mars 96 exploded, leaving NASA's modest Mars Pathfinder as the sole recent red planet success. Mars Global Surveyor has yet to begin its mapping. On the more immediate horizon, NASA plans a Dec. 10 launch for the Mars Climate Orbiter -- part of the Mars Surveyor 1998 project, which should begin orbiting in September 1999. Next up will be the Mars Polar Lander, which is set for a Jan. 3 liftoff and should land at the planet's south pole on Dec. 3, 1999. Last spring, scientists realized that the elaborate Athena rover, which was to be sent in 2001, was becoming too expensive and unwieldy to launch until 2003. The decision to replace Athena in 2001 with Marie Curie, a spare copy of the Sojourner rover that roamed Mars last year, meant scientists would have to put hopes on hold. However, Congress appropriated enough money to have the 2001 mission at least conduct experiments for NASA researchers contemplating human Mars travel, such as measuring radiation and soil toxicity and exploring on-site fuel production to power the flight home. A silver lining emerged after NASA tapped Charles Elachi, director for Space and Earth Sciences at JPL, to bring together experts and restructure the Mars program. Their road map relies on robotic missions of increasing complexity as precursors to human travel. Under the old concept, rovers would collect and stash samples and later vehicles would scoop up the best samples for study. Under the new proposal, mini-MAVs would shoot rocks into Mars orbit as they're being collected. They would linger in space until the French orbiter can rendezvous with them. "It's fantastic. By returning the samples from the live rover to the live ascent vehicle, the chances of success have gone up markedly," said Squyres, principal investigator on the Athena rover. "This ascent vehicle really saves the program." By JANE E. ALLEN, AP Science Writer Copyright =A91998 Nando Media
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 23 An Historic Report On Life In Space: [Corrected] From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:51:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:51:17 -0500 Subject: An Historic Report On Life In Space: [Corrected] There are a few typographical errors in the first version of this document. We suggest you delete the original and replace it with this one in your files. ebk _________________________________________________________ Source: http://www.accessnv.com/nids/Jackson_Hohmann_SETI.shtml [The documents reproduced below appear at the NIDS site as .JPGs and as such can only be read at the site. Since their import merits digitising, Sue and I spent some time keying from the image files - they simply wouldn't OCR with the software we have. The 'Figures' mentioned below are on-line at NIDS. We also have a .DOC version of what's below that includes the images - available on request. Bear in mind that that file is over 1Mb --ebk] An Historic Report On Life In Space: Tesla, Marconi, Todd by C. D. Jackson and R. E. Hohmann International Business Machines Corp. Kingston, New York 2730-62 AMERICAN ROCKET SOCIETY 17th ANNUAL MEETING AND SPACE FLIGHT EXPOSITION PAN PACIFIC AUDITORIUM LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 13 - 18, 1962 Commentary Introduction: Our attention was directed toward the existence of this paper by one of our colleagues in the scientific community. After further inquiry, it was found that this paper is archived at the Linda Hall Library (an independent research library of science and technology, 800-662-1545) in Kansas City, Missouri. The paper is archived on microfiche and, after further investigation, we found that no original hard copy is obtainable from either the Linda Hall Library or IBM's archives. We then ordered a photocopy of the paper be made from microfiche and sent to NIDS. What we present below are scanned images of this photocopy in JPG format which is the lowest image format size obtainable for this document. The text and figures 1 and 4 are clear and legible after scanning, but we found that figures 2 and 3 are difficult to understand as they are photographical data from a Jenkins Radio-Camera (ca. 1924). The Linda Hall Library provided three photocopies of the page containing the four figures using different contrasts for each to help us find the best copy of these microfiche images. Thus, we provide below two scanned images of figures 2 and 3 to let the viewer see for themselves what we believe to be the two best presentations of them. Figures 2 and 3 are difficult to understand or interpret since they represent photographical data from the Jenkins Radio-Camera. During the years 1899-1924 three experimental scientists, Nikola Tesla, Guglielmo Marconi, and David Todd (working independently of each other) observed laboratory data and related phenomenon which suggested the possibility that they were monitoring interplanetary communications. During the same period (199-1924) the Russian theorist Konstantin Tsiolkovsky deduced a model of an intelligence existing independently of terrestrial influence. Tesla, Marconi, and Todd did not know that they were working with identical data, nor did they know that these data corroborated, in a quantitative manner, the theoretical model built by Tsiolkovsky. This paper presents the investigations and experimental data of Nikola Tesla, Guglielmo Marconi and David Todd. The data are first brought together in a historical model (1899-1924) and then are shown to be the natural complement of a current theoretical model (1959-1962). These data are then recommended for assembly into a quantitative five model according to the theoretical outline described by Tsiolkovsky.*1 Our purpose in this paper is to examine the original data of Tesla, Marconi and Todd in response to a rhetorical inquiry presented by the Office of the Director of Defense Research and Engineering, asking: "What research is being done to keep abreast of the scientific advances of the past... to see that there is not needless duplication of effort? Did the advances of the past fail to find application due to a lack of need for application at the time, or failure to have developed some technique or material ancillary to the application of the scientific advance?" *1 For purpose of economy-of-presentation, biographical details of Tesla, Marconi, Todd and Tsiolkovsky are omitted and only as much historical background is used as is necessary to establish a chronology of events. 1 Tesla: Experiments in High-Frequency (1892-1907) As early as 1892, Nikola Tesla had defined the use of the magnetic field of the terrestrial globe as a means of signal and energy transmission.2 To reduce this idea to practice, Tesla designed and built equipment3 capable of producing high-frequency currents, including the ability for tuning both transmitting and receiving coils to any desired frequency or wavelength.4 In a paper delivered at the 1893 meeting of the National Electric Light Association, Tesla stated that the purpose of his laboratory investigation was to know what is the capacitance of the earth, and what charge does it contain if electrified. "Though we have no positive evidence of a charged body existing in space without other oppositely charged electric bodies being near," said Tesla, "there is a fair probability that the earth is such a body, for by whatever process it was separated*2 ... it must have retained a charge as occurs in all processes of mechanical separation."5 Tesla continued his lecture, stating that the intent of his calculations was "... to ascertain at what period the earth's charge when disturbed, oscillates, with respect to an oppositely charged system or known circuit."6 In effect Tesla was theorizing that the planet Earth has a circuit-identification, i.e., a 'signature' of its own, and that, given the proper equipment, he could broadcast this identity wholesale into the universe. *2 Tesla�s views regarding the origin of the earth are derived from ideas proposed by Sir George Darwin (1845-1912), e.g., that the moon was torn from the Earth by solar tides cf. �Mysteries of the Moon�, Dr. Harold Urey, New York Times, October 8, 1961 By 1896 Tesla developed a prototype oscillator of sufficient capacity that he was able to demonstrate a �loop� circuit which was tied in with the earth's magnetic field. Test of the oscillator at the Houston Street Laboratory (New York) in 1896 are bet remembered for the �earthquake� tremors that were distributed over an area of twelve city blocks. Three years after the Houston Street effort Tesla was now ready to begin a full scale experiment. For this purpose he had constructed a special laboratory near Colorado Springs, Colorado. The Colorado laboratory (Figure 1) was located on a vast expanse of plain, 2000 meters above sea level. The entire laboratory was designed in keeping with Tesla's plan to make the terrestrial globe a propagation device for the transmission of energy. [] Figure 1. With reference to Figure 1, the mast is 280 feet high and is topped with a copper ball approximately three feet in diameter. The interior of the building was walled in a circular manner to accommodate the winding of a primary coil 75 feet in diameter. In operation, surges of power were driven, alternately, into the earth and outward from the top of the mast. Broadcast wavelengths were registered at 2000 meters.7 Banks of incandescent lights �plugged into� the ground 26 miles from the laboratory-site flowed and flashed and throughout the experiments. Specialized instrumentation built to record the experiments at the Colorado laboratory was sensitive to the point that Tesla could detect and catalogue every type of atmospheric electrical disturbance within a radius of 1100 miles. It was during the tests conducted in Colorado in 1899 that Tesla detected the phenomenon which he described as an interplanetary communication. Speaking of the data that, unexpectedly, had registered on his instruments Tesla said that the signals took place "... periodically, and with such a clear suggestion of number and order that they were not traceable to any cause then known to me. I was familiar ... with such electrical disturbances as are produced by the sun, Aurora Borealis and earth currents, and I was as sure as I could be of any fact that these variations were due to none of these causes. The nature of my experiments precluded the possibility of the changes being produced by atmospheric disturbances .... Although I could not decipher their meaning, it was impossible for me to think of them as having been entirely accidental ... a purpose was behind these signals8 ...they are the results of an attempt by some human beings, not of our world, to speak to us by signals .. I am absolutely certain that they are not caused by anything terrestrial."9 Following the experience in Colorado in 1899, Tesla became increasingly reluctant to release further details via the press and other public media. There is reason to believe, however, that the phenomenon Tesla recorded in Colorado, in 1899, consisted of three parts which, eventually, Tesla identified in terms analogous only to our present-day Information Theory. Tesla's efforts to respond in kind with a fourth part were therefore understandably abstruse to the point where "... for particular reasons," he said, the "... full technical report descriptive of the apparatus and results would be reserved for the records of the academies of science."10 Marconi-Todd: Observations and Experimentation (1899-1924) On March 27, 1899, while Tesla was completing construction of the Colorado laboratory, Guglielmo Marconi concluded his first significant communication experiment: wireless transmission/receiving across the English Channel. The achievement (transmission of the code-letter 'V' from Wimereaux, France, to South Foreland, England - a distance of 50 miles) was the culmination of personal convictions and laboratory efforts closely resembling the equipment approach taken by Tesla. "Electrical actions or manifestations," said Marconi in 1897, describing his basic patent, "are transmitted through the air, earth, or water by means of electric oscillations of high frequency."11 And again, as with Tesla, Marconi's method of inquiry was to search for, and to duplicate the prototypes already existing in nature.12 Experimental techniques, according to Marconi's view are "... no more than a simple consequence of observing and studying the means employed by nature to obtain her effects of heat, light, of magnetism across space. As the heat and light of the sun upon which depend the life of our planet are transmitted across millions and millions of kilometers of space, as the light of the most distant stars, as the electrical and magnetic perturbations of nature are manifested to us after having crossed the most immeasurable distances, it appeared to me {Marconi} that by adopting means similar to those adopted by nature, it should be possible to transmit these effects at our will..."13 The correctness of Marconi's approach, i.e., finding his prototypes in the phenomena of nature, and implementing his findings with compatible devices, was aptly demonstrated on December 12, 1901, with the transmission of the first transatlantic message. Signals (a repetition of the code-letter "S") sent from the 25 Kilowatt station at Poldhu (Pold-ju) in Cornwall, England, were received via a kite-borne antenna flown from St. Johns, Newfoundland, a distance of 1800 miles. Following this success and the eventual establishment of an international Wireless Telegraph Company, Marconi once again turned to basic research. To ensure personal independence, Marconi fitted out a floating laboratory (the 220 foot yacht Elettra). In this environment Marconi could work "...at all hours of the day and the night, finding without delay suitable grounds for all kinds of experiments which would be difficult and complicated to carry out on land."14 It was in September, 1921, aboard the Elettra, while conducting atmospheric experiments in the Mediterranean area, that Marconi detected the phenomenon which he described as an interplanetary communication. The first report of this experience was released by J. C. H. MacBeth, London Manager of the Marconi Wireless Telegraph Company. "The signals", MacBeth said, "registered high in the meter band, although the maximum length of earth-produced waves at the time was 14,000 meters. The theory that the waves were produced by electrical disturbances was disproved by the regularity of the pulses. Although the pulses apparently consisted of a code, the only signal similar to earth codes was one resembling the letter �V� in the Marconi Code. Marconi himself expressed the belief that the signal had originated ... at some point in outer space."15 In his own discussion of the signals Marconi stated that he expected interplanetary communications to take the form of a "... transmission of pictures accompanied by a simple code."16 In this statement Marconi anticipated by 3 years the results of the remarkable "listening" experiment conducted by Dr. David Todd, then professor of Astronomy at Amherst College, Massachusetts. [] On the night of August 22, 1924, the planet Mars approached to within thirty-four and a half million miles.17 Realizing that this close an approach would not come again until the year 2000, a "listening" experiment was arranged by Dr. Todd. At Dr. Todd's suggestion the U.S. Government, through diplomatic channels, requested that all countries with high-power transmitters turn off their equipment for 5 minutes every hour from 11:50 p.m. August 21, to 11:50 p.m. August 23.18 A radio-photo message device was used to record results of the experiment. The device19 was attached to a receiving set and adjusted to a wave-length of 6000 meters. Incoming radio signals received during the test period were converted to light signals which, in turn were printed on a reel of photo-sensitive tape five inches wide. Figure 2 (left) Figure 3 (below) [] The printed tape, following the experiment, was 25 feet long, comprising 16 printed frames, and contained a pattern of dots and dashes (Figure 2) plus some configurations of grouped signals (Figure 3) located at approximately 30 minutes intervals on the tape.20 The rationale for determining whether the signals reported by Tesla, Marconi and Todd, i.e., between 1899 and 1924, are the result of random noise, electrical leaks, or the effects of various diathermy machines, or whether the signals are authentic, requires first of all that the data be assembled into a historical model. The second requirement is that the model agree with a theoretical construct. And, finally, that in the matching of the historical model to the theoretical construct there be neither �forcing� nor expedient collusion. We shall examine all three of these conditions. Historical Model As shown in Figure 4 there is a consistency of signal-to-noise-response between the sending of the Morse 'V' in March, 1899, and the monitoring of an unknown identical response in September, 1921. In this first cycle the signal-to-response time was 22 years. The consistency holds true again for the sending of the Morse 'S' in December, 1901, and the monitoring of the Morse 'S' plus an additional code in August, 1924. Again the signal-to-noise time was 22 years. No other data are known. Prudence demands that we not surmise and add more to the model than actually exists. Theoretical Model [] If we regard the historical model (Figure 4) as a discrete period of time (1899-1924) marking the very earliest attempts at communication by means of electromagnetic radiation, then, according to the hypothesis of Dr. Frank D. Drake (Radio Astronomy Observatory, Green Bank, West Virginia), other older civilizations searching the universe for radiation from abodes of life would "... detect the very early transmissions of a civilization having just discovered radio.21 Using passive observation equipment on the order of a very powerful radio telescope, detection of these primitive efforts would be reliable and quick.22 Figure 4. Drake's hypothesis agrees closely with the data of the historical model. Tesla's Colorado experiments in 1899 were, using Drake's words, "... the very early transmission of a civilization having just discovered radio".23 The immediate detection of Tesla's experiments by means of passive observation equipment is strongly suggest in the delayed signal-echo-phenomena observed by Hals, Stormer, Van Der Pol, and E. V. Appleton (1927-1928),24 and the careful calculations and experimental data by Budden and Yates (1952) concluding that the delayed echo-phenomena they were examining was in fact the result of planar reflections from a system "... fixed in space relative to the earth and moving [in orbit] permanently with the earth."25 "Once a civilization is discovered," says Drake, continuing his hypothesis, "it is expected that ... an introductory signal [be sent] to the new found civilization."26 In this regard the multi-million volt surges of radio noise generated by Tesla during the Colorado experiments in 1899 were intended to produce electrical waves " ... of such magnitude that, without the slightest doubt, [the] effect will be perceptible on some of our nearer planets."27 During a pause in the experiments there had been noted by Tesla - and anticipating by 60 years Drake's comment above - a series of incoming signals "... taking place periodically and with such a clear suggestion of number and order ... the feeling in constantly growing on me that I had been the first to hear the greeting of one planet to another."28 The physical characteristics of the monitored signals as listed in the historical model (Figure 4), and as posited in theory, likewise present a remarkable similarity. The signals monitored by Tesla (1899), Marconi (1921); and by Hals, Stormer and Van Der Pol (1927) are characteristically simple. The signals are, basically, a "response-in-kind" repeating the original transmission, although on a higher-frequency, and performing, at least in part, a recognition function. In this respect the historical model supports Sebastian von Hoerner's opinion that "... the nature of the signals will be defined entirely by the purpose they serve and by the most economical way to achieve this purpose."29 The simplicity appropriate to a recognition of a civilization just having discovered electromagnetic techniques is likewise consistent with M. H. Briggs' theory that another civilization would "... deliberately render the signal capable of detection as an artificial transmission by sending a 'message' composed of some regularly repeated pattern of impulses."30 A more sophisticated theory - which nevertheless is exactly analogous with the radio-photo data recorded during Dr. Todd's �listening� experiment (1924) is offered in Drake's private suggestion that other civilizations would "... send out pulses in clusters - a series of pulses followed by a pause, another series, another pause, and so on. The number of signals in each pulse could stand for intensity of light or dark and we could build up a picture on the basis of the information received."31 The radio-photo tape used in the �listening� experiment (1924) recorded 16 increments or frames, of clustered pulses, each increment separated by a 30 minute pause. The format of the pulses suggested two distinct efforts: signals, and images (Figures 2 and 3). A most interesting comment here, and certainly beyond explanation, is Marconi's emphatic statement to the press (September, 1921) following his own experience of monitoring signals originating from an unknown point in space, that he fully expected interplanetary communication to be in the form of "...transmission of pictures accompanied by a simple code."32 The final piece of information carried over from the historical model is the data representing signal-to-response time. Tesla's experience, as we have noted earlier, is identifiable with the Budden and Yates conclusion pointing to the existence of a system fixed in space relative to the earth and moving in orbit permanently with the earth,33 and with F. D. Drake's theory of a passive observation system tuned to detect and to respond quickly to new sources of electromagnetic radiation. With Marconi and Todd, however, the signal-to-response time on both occasions was 22 years. And here, too, the historical model agrees most exactly with the contemporary theory that the probability of occurrence of life in the universe is best predictable on the basis of considering first those stars most resembling our own sun. The following table, prepared by Su-Shu-Huang34 of the Institute of Advanced Studies, at Princeton, quantitatively reconstructed this theory: Nearby Stars On Whose Planets (If Any) Living Beings Have A Better-Than-Average Chance To Develop Star Distance in Spectral Type Luminosity Light Years Sun G2 1.00 Epsilon 10.8 K2 0.34 Eridani Tau Ceti 11.8 G4 0.38 Signal-to-response times rated at the speed of light place the transmitted/monitored signals of Marconi and Todd exactly in the Epsilon/Eridani/Tau Ceti bracket. The Antecedence of the Historical Model The experience of Tesla, Marconi, and Todd were, respectively, personal and individual; there was no joint effort or comparative analysis either before or after the experience. In each instance a particular phenomenon was observed and recorded - and nothing more. As discrete events representative of isolated scientific phenomena distributed over the years 1899-1924, the value of each event at the time of occurrence was, therefore, impossible to ascertain. In composite form, however (as brought together in Figure 4), there comes into existence and without in any way distorting the individual events themselves - an inter-relationship of events. This inter-relationship (and the potential it carries) is the male factor that makes theory come alive with meaning. For this reason neither the events of the historical model not the data of the theoretical construct can, alone, be meaningful. The fact that the historical model came into existence first, and that the shaping of the theoretical model came 35 years later (beginning in 1959), is less important than the fact that each is a natural complement to the other. Tsiolkovsky: An Advanced Theoretical Model In the development of a theoretical model to give meaning to the historical events of 1899-1924 we have used the interim period of 35 years as a guarantee, i.e., an insulation, to assure that the complementary matching is natural rather than collusive. We have presented an historical approach to the subject and, deliberately, have avoided any attempt to interpret the data, reserving this subject for a specific paper.35 As a preliminary estimate, however, there are indications that the final interpretation will proceed more along the lines of Information Theory, and Image Processing, rather than in the conventional manner of reducing signals to alpha-numeric characters. The factors of guidance in this future effort are the intuitions inherent in the advanced theoretical model proposed by Konstantin Tsiolkovsky (1857-1935). In the same manner that the model comprising the historical events of 1899-1924 is complementary to the opinions of the present-day scientific community, so too can we predict with some accuracy that a quantitative analysis of these same historical data will advance the state of the art to the level of Tsiolkovsky's theory of interplanetary communication. Even before Shannon's development of the Information Theory (1948), Tsiolkovsky had maintained that "...the simple repetition of signals is an obsolete method, convenient only in the initial state of interstellar communication, in a form of short and simple signals."36 Probing deeply for answers to the questions of entropy and negentropy, Tsiolkovsky worked with concepts that would not be related to signal theory until many years later with the advent of Wiener, Shannon, and Weaver. "Science cannot avoid strange paths" was Tsiolkovsky's dictum. In this paper we have utilized the historic approach in an attempt to mark out the beginning of just such a path, and, insofar as possible, to remove some of the strangeness. References 1. Office of the Director of Defense Research and Engineering, January, 1961 'Important Areas of Electronic Research' quoting W. R. G. Baker, President of Syracuse University Research Corporation. 2. Nikola Tesla, 'Experiments with Alternative Currents', The Institute of Electrical Engineers, London, England, February, 1892. 3. The equipment built in 1893 is described in U.S. Government Patents, Numbers 645, 576 and 649, 621. These patents descriptions contain all the fundamental features of radio broadcasting and receiving circuits. The work was accomplished 14 years in advance of Marconi's similar effort. 4. 'Prodigal Genius, The Life of Nikola Tesla', John J. O'Neill, Ives Washburn, Incorporated, 1994, Part II, Chapter VIII, pp. 121-127. 5. Ibid., Part II, Chapter VIII, p. 132. 6. Ibid., Part II, Chapter VIII, p. 132. 7. Nikola Tesla, 'The Transmission of Electric Energy Without Wires', The Electrical World and Engineer, March 5, 1904. 8. Nikola Tesla, 'Talking with the Planets' Current Literature, March, 1901, pp. 359-360. 9. 'Tesla Has a Message from the Stars', Western Electrician, January 12, 1901, p. 33. 10. Western Electrician, July 13, 1907, p. 37. 11. Guglielmo Marconi, Patent Number 12,039 (England), July 2, 1897. 12. Compare with Pope Pious XII, Address to the Third International Communication Congress, October 12, 1935. The extraordinary achievements of science and technology "... are in reality nothing but the discovery and possession of forces and pre-existing laws which the Creator spread throughout the universe and which have operated actively since the beginning of creation. 13. 'My Father, Marconi', Degna Marconi, McGraw-Hill Company, New York, 1962, Part II, Chapter VII, p. 148. 14. Ibid., Part III, Chapter VIII, p.231 15. Condensed from an article by Vincent H. Gaddis. 16. The New York Times, September 3, 1921, 4:4. 17. Mars is, on the average, 200,000,000 miles from Earth, and, at the greatest distance, is 235,000,000 miles from Earth. On August 23, 1924, Mars and Earth were almost at the critical positions for a minimum separation of 34,648,000 miles. 18. The general description of this experiment is derived from accounts carried in the Washington Post, August 21-22, 1924, The New York Times, August 23, 1924; and from a further article by Vincent H. Gaddis. 19. The machine was a Jenkins Radio-Camera, regularly used for recording on a long photo-sensitive paper strip five-inches wide a radio-transmitted message or news copy sent by radio directly from a typewritten paper strip in the sending machine at the broadcasting station. In the camera a very small light source is arranged to traverse this photo strip in transverse lines, sixty lines to the inch. The Longitudinal movement of the paper strip and the transverse movement of the light are both accomplished by an electric motor attachment, the motor being situated outside the light tight camera box. The camera box was located in a dark room so that the camera could be opened and the paper strip put in and taken out without getting it light-struck. The adjustment of the motor speed was such as to move the strip about an inch every half-hour. The tiny light was attached to a radio receiving set located inside the dark room and the radio set adjusted to the longest wave length possible with this set (between 5000 and 6000 meters). About 25 feet of the photo strip was put into the machine at about 1:20pm, Friday, August 22, 1924, and taken out Saturday somewhat later in the afternoon, it is being discovered that the strip had all passed through when the camera was opened. Any incoming radio signals which were within the limits of the wave length of the set would flash the tiny lamp, and these flashes would be recorded on the light-sensitive strip. The completed strip, which was developed on a motion picture film rack, contained a record of all incoming radio signals. 20. A detailed and quantitative analysis of the signals received by Dr. David Todd in 1924 is the subject of a paper currently in preparation by Mr. C. D. Jackson of the IBM Systems Analysis Group, in Bethesda, Maryland. This paper, entitled ' An Experiment in Extra-Terrestrial Communications' will be offered to the American Rocket Society at a future meeting. 21. F. D. Drake, �Project OZMA�, Physics Today, April, 1961, pp. 40-46. 22. F. D. Drake, Ibid. 23. See Note Number 3 (Tesla�s experimental application of radio technology.) 24. Nature, No. 3079, Vol. 122, November 3, 1928; Nature, No. 3084, Vol. 122, December 8, 1928; see also A. Hoyt Taylor and L. C. Young, Proc., IRE, 16, 561, 1928. 25. K. G. Budden and G. G. Yates, �A Search for Radio Echoes of Long Delay�, Journal of Atmospheric and Terrestrial Physics, 1952, Vol. 2, pp. 272 - 281, Pergamon Press, Ltd., London. 26. F. D. Drake, �Project OZMA�, Physics Today, April, 1961, pp. 40-46. 27. Vjekoslav Gradecak, quoting Nikola Tesla, in �Electricity for Space Exploration�, Ryan Aerospace, Vol. 23, February 1962, No. 1, Ryan Aeronautical Company, San Diego, California. 28. Nikola Tesla, �Talking With the Planets�, Current Literature, March, 1901, pp. 359-360. 29. Sebastian von Hoerner, �The Search for Signals from Other Civilizations�, Science, December, 1961, pp. 1839 and ff. 30. Michael H. Briggs, �Superior Galactic Communities�, Nature, 187, 1102; 1960. 31. Editorial, quoting Dr. F. D. Drake, Science, Volume 130, Number 3391, December 25, 1959. 32. The New York Times, 4:4, September 3, 1921. 33. See Budden and Yates, Note Number 25. 34. Su-Shu Huang, �Occurrence of Life in the Universe�, American Scientist, Volume 47, No. 3., September, 1959, pp. 397-402. 35. See Note No. 20. 36. Private Communication, September 4, 1962, from Dr. Alexis N. Tsvetikov, Department of Biophysics, Stanford University, Stanford, California. Special Acknowledgement The authors extend a particular acknowledgement of the assistance of Mrs. Walter V. Bingham for making available for use in this paper private documents and notes belonging to her father, the late Dr. David Todd.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: Abduction of Blacks? From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:46:38 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:48:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? At 11.13 23/11/98 -0500, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:43:21 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? >Greg Sandow spent some time looking through the psychological >publications and could not find _anything_ dealing with >abductions or abductees. Very strange, indeed! There are several (though not too many) articles about alien abductions in the scientific literature of psychology, psychiatry, hypnosis and the like. I've been collecting such literature (and anything about hypnosis and its use in ufology) since 1983, and Alessandro Zabini and myself are currently updating both our (photocopy) files at CISU and the old bibliography I had published in UPIAR, 15 years ago. While in 1983 I remarked that same lack of scientific papers on the subject, I was pleased at discovering some interesting items published in the meantime. We would also be interested in exchanging both reference lists and photocopies of such articles (Alessandro found several references in PsycLit abstracts, from psychology journals we have been unable to find in Italian libraries, as yet). Is there anybody out there, interested in that subject, too? Best regards Edoardo Russo Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033 http://www.arpnet.it/ufo e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: Subterranean Base-ic Blues From: Jsmortell@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:55:08 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:59:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Subterranean Base-ic Blues >Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:51:26 -0800 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Subterranean Base-ic Blues >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:40:35 EST >Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:56:17 -0500 >Subject: Subterranean Base-ic Blues [was: ...Info? On >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Info? On 'Branton' >>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:52:48 -0000 ><snip> >>It seems to me that the whole thing involving Doty set up a host >>of myths and disinformation which formed the basis of much >>current Ufology; the idea in hidden underground bases, >>abductions and breeding programmes, the big secret (MJ-12) and >>more. ><snip> >There was a time when the US government seemed obsessed with >'burrowing'. >The government does in fact have a large number of underground >facilities which is not surprising considering that for a long >part of the Cold War Mutual Assured Destruction was a basic >tenet. >For instance, I used to work three floors down underground in >the Pentagon... It was _so_secure_ there that I could leave Top >Secret documents on the desk and go to lunch! There were so many >security cameras in place that this was _not_ a problem. <snip> Dear Jan, Bond, Tim & List: You do not leave _documents_ let alone secure documents on your desk or in it. It is against every protocol that I am familiar with. I worked on a large number of programs which were classified secret or above, and in areas so secure you couldn't get in even if you were with "Aviation Week and Space Technology!" Now _that's_ secure!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: Sanchez-Ocejo: 'Ufology Demography' - An Essay From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:25:21 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:05:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Sanchez-Ocejo: 'Ufology Demography' - An Essay >Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:06:38 -0800 >From: Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <pharaoh@web2000.net> >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Sanchez-Ocejo: Ufology Demography - An Essay >The current era is characterized by the acceleration of all >human things; for example, our own multiplication. In this >moment we experience an explosive mutation. At the beginning >of the Century, existed in the World, some 1,500 million of >human beings. Today that quantity have multiplied four time, >counting the explosive phase of the human progression. Some >sociologist visualize a super population in an immediate future. >After the World War II, this process increased with the sexual >freedom movements, as the 'Hippie' era. >At the beginning, the entities that visited us were of the >Adamsky type; tall, blond, blue eyes, clarifying that they came >from different planets and constellations: Venus, Mars, Pleiades >etc.. >Later, this entities were displaced by those, which today we >call the "Gray"; small, large headed, black eyes, long arms and >of lizard aspect. These entities taking advantage of the sexual >explosion and the liberal character of the North American, found >the perfect country that could easily assimilate their >abductions, implants and the creation of hybrids. >The Europeans and the South Americans with more traditionalism, >might have caused a negative impact in their projects. >In China, where the >government have impose strict natal control and families are >allowed to have only two children, their hybrid program would be >very difficult to follow. >Another example is their program of cattle mutilation. >In India, cows are considered sacred. The cattle mutilations >in that country might cause a negative religious movement >against the 'Gray'. In India, there is not a single cattle >mutilation!. >In the Arabic countries, where infidelity is paid with their >life, there is not a single case of sexual abduction!. >This is broadly the reason of the presence of the 'Gray' in our >society. >We are facing the worse entity that visit us. In addition to >being ugly, they are deaf-mute, have lack of feelings, are liars >and want to create an hybrid race against our will, to improve >their physical defects. Their only weapon is an extraordinary >ability to control the human psyche, manipulating it thoroughly. >It is here where the danger lies and where we should react. >Already we know cases of abductions, where the persons are >affected by stress, altering the Functional Neuroendocrine and >affecting their immune systems, causing different illness. >Some abductees have experienced changes, becoming schizophrenic, >changing in moods and emotions, ending in depression due to the >test done during their abduction and the post abduction mandate, >by the 'Gray', to erase the experience from their minds. Most >of the time, they can not completely erase the experience, >causing "flash back" that affect the abducted person. >I do not see any effort in part of the 'Gray' to fix this >consequences and the future looks worse. >Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo >Miami UFO Center ======================================> Dr. Ocejo, I find your essays a fascinating read. Regarding your following statement, >Already we know cases of abductions, where the persons are >affected by stress, altering the Functional Neuroendocrine and >affecting their immune systems, causing different illness. I wonder if you would be kind enough to clarify one point for me. That would be the effect of the alien abduction experience on the alteration of "Functional Neuroendocrine" system and this effect on the immune system. I am particularly interested in auto immune illnesses such as Lupus, Multiple Sclerosis and some other illnesses such as arthritis, etc. Do you have any statistics on the number and/or type of immune system illnesses born by abductees?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> Date: Mon 23 Nov, 1998 14:53 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:08:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie This page at Malin Space Science Systems has a movie that shows the Mars Descent Imager Entry, Descent & Landing test results for the Mars Polar Lander. http://www.msss.com/stuff/edl4/ I wonder if this could be another sign for CAUS. Roger R. Prokic Telecom Design Lead Mars Surveyor Program Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Min Min Lights From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:11:56 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:11:27 -0500 Subject: Min Min Lights Hi Errol, Hi All I am trying to find out a little info on the Min Min lights in Australia and I wondered if any of you learned people here could point me in the right direction for some more information please. So far this is all that I have been able to find out: >They are associated with the great western plains, particularly >of Queensland, where on a clear night one can see a very long >distance and there are no artificial lights on roads that may >have, eg, only a few cars a day pass a given point. >Possibilities also include chemiluminescence phenomena. The Min >Min light has been said to evoke unnatural fear, but probably >only because people see a light where, according to their logic, >no light should be. --- In an infinite universe inifinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:16:26 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:14:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] >Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:08:02 -0500 (EST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] >Hey, all I want to know is when I get my prize!!!!????? >They all sound like items to be cherished, and handed down from >generation to generation. >Bob >BTW, the first abductees were Irish, carried off by the >wee people. You may jest Bob but it has been investigated in a very serious manner that this abduction by the wee people may have _actually_ happened_ and this is how the stories have been passed on. After all are not most greys described as short etc etc ...... --- In an infinite universe inifinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: UK House of Commons/Lords & UFOs? From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:24:31 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:23:08 -0500 Subject: Re: UK House of Commons/Lords & UFOs? >Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:16:16 -0800 (PST) >From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com> >Subject: London Research: Assistance Needed >To: UFO UpDates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Dear Colleagues, >Does anyone out there have a full list of the questions which >have been raised in the House of Commons & Lords in regard to >the UFO subject for 1998? I also require if possible some past >cases of UFOs seen over Central London from as far back as 1930. >Any help with this would be kindly apreciated. Search the UK Parliament Publications Database http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/cgi-bin/tso_fx?DB=tso There you go Roy, all you need to know from Parliament, and the Lords
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: UK House of Commons/Lords & UFOs? From: dledger@ns.sympatico.ca (Donald Ledger) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:17:17 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:25:31 -0500 Subject: Re: UK House of Commons/Lords & UFOs? >Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:16:16 -0800 (PST) >From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com> >Subject: London Research: Assistance Needed >To: UFO UpDates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Dear Colleagues, >Does anyone out there have a full list of the questions which >have been raised in the House of Commons & Lords in regard to >the UFO subject for 1998? I also require if possible some past >cases of UFOs seen over Central London from as far back as 1930. >This is for research into an article I am preparing for London >readers. >Any help with this would be kindly apreciated. >Kindest Regards, >Roy.. Roy, your best bet is to contact Hansard for the British House of Commons/Lords. They have everything spoken catalogued in the debates of the Houses. They probably have video archives as well. They are both taped, or at least the HOC is.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 UFOR: ::: Tidbits from the Lodge ::: From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:43:42 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:49:29 -0500 Subject: UFOR: ::: Tidbits from the Lodge ::: From: Blue Resonant Human <density4@cts.com> Note the fambly portrait at: http://www.jse.com/ufo_reports/Sturrock/panel.html ...and marvel over the two deep cover Bigelow moles in the bunch. I mean, most are aware that Larry's money is bigger than Bob's money (in a Freudian sense, anyway) but this does not appear to deter the Las Vegan from holding his own in the Jihad. In any event, regarding "major belief changes in America," riddle me this, Batman: "I had given my private address to Lazar's associates. Within days I started receiving strange letters from a colonel in Las Vegas who invited me to spend one month -- all expenses paid -- with a group of ::: 12 People ::: who were preparing a major belief change in America. My background, he wrote, would be a 'definite advantage.' The incentive for joining the group was to establish contact with aliens. When I ignored the first letter -- it included the logo of the group, a neo-nazi design with an eagle clutching the SS symbol and a bunch of thunder- bolts -- the colonel sent me a second letter, even more specific. 'If you are sincere about contact with them, we can discuss it but only if there is no government involvement.' "To show it meant business, my correspondent included detailed information: longitude and latitude of a certain UFO sighting dated May 1943. I had the feeling that the problem was entering a new and dangerous phase..." [excerpt from _Revelations_, 1991 by Jacques Vallee] Meanwhile, on another note, it appears Ira was highlighted last night on Bill Kurtis's A&E _Investigative Reports_ while word on the street has it that he'll be appearing in court in Philly on December 1. This is no doubt the Martian's doing, for the first shall be last and the last shall be abducted. And so it goes! -Brother Blue, B:.B:.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Question For The Circle Hoaxers: Williams & Damon From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:30:22 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:55:59 -0500 Subject: Question For The Circle Hoaxers: Williams & Damon Dear Colleagues, I have been thinking over the statement in which Matthew Williams & his colleague Paul Damon confessed to making crop circles from the years 1996-98. I have discussed this statement with a wide variety of people in all areas of crop circle/UFO research. We now feel that it would be only right for Matthew & Paul to inform everyone within the UFO/Crop circle research communities, to present us with the full list of the circles they claimed to have made from 1996-98. Seeming that they have already decided to let us all in on the secret, I and my colleagues can find no reason as to why they should be unable to provide us with the above requested data. This data can then be looked at in another light by many researchers who may have investigated their alleged hoaxed formations. I also feel this would open the full picture concerning the aspect of crop circle research and hoaxing. I do not feel this is to much to ask, so I await the disclosure of the full "Hoaxed Formation List". This may even help us to understand why such activities such as Circle Hoaxiing need to be carried out, especially from the above two mentioned researchers. Kindest Regards, Roy Hale..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: Times of Recent 'Green-flare' Leonid Meteors From: Bob Soetebier - bikebob <bikebob@mo.net> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:36:54 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:06:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Times of Recent 'Green-flare' Leonid Meteors All: A friend of mine -- whose identity I have "anonymized" for the purpose of this posting -- has posed some excellent questions, below. Thought you all might appreciate the added details, too. --Bob S. On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 xxxxxxx@aol.com wrote: >Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:31:52 EST >From: xxxxxxx@aol.com >To: bikebob <bikebob@mo.net> >Subject: Fwd: Times of Recent "Green-flare" Leonid Meteors >Bob, >Very interesting article. Could you tell me how long you >observed each Glad you found it so. Each meteor sighting -- both the dozens of "regular" meteors, and the 3 "green-flare" meteor sightings -- were literally less than one-second streak sightings. The smoke trails (which were only present in the case of the 3 green-flare meteors) did last in excess of 10 minutes, minimum, each. >incident. Did the meterors appear to be travelling in a >horizontal or an inclined or a decline trajectory? If inclined >or declined, then at what All the meteors we sighted that night, without exception, were travelling in a horizontal/flat plane...regardless of their direction. There was no angle of incline or decline, nor any sort of trajectory arc to any of the meteors we sighted. Unlike the Perseid meteor shower of a few years back (when most of the couple dozen meteors -- with a half-dozen spectacular ones! -- we sighted were streaking high in the sky/overhead), the 9 out of 10 of Leonid meteors we sighted were between 30-degrees to 60-degrees above the projected level-plane horizon. >approximate angle did they traverse? Can you guesstimate their >altitude, example, 1000 ft, 10,000 ft, 100,000 ft, above the >stratosphere, etc. Is It was an absolutely clear sky. There was no cloud layer for reference at all. No idea of altitudes. However, the green-flare meteor smoke trails did *seem* (best guess...and, only that: A guess...) to have been deposited between 5,000 to 10,000 ft. Reason why I say that is that looked about where their smoky "cloud" trail layer persisted. (Again...just a pure guess on that, though.) >there a way to determine their velocity? How long did they >travel across the Most of the meteors we saw covered about an average of 45-degrees across the sky...again, in less than a second. Most probably much less than a half a second. (Have fun doing the math. :) >sky. Did they burn out or did they continue with their bright >glowing light as they travelled out of your range of vision? >Can you more accurately define Actually, most (again, 9 out of 10) of the meteors we sighted flared -- from beginning to end -- well within our field of vision. Only one or two, at most, passed out of our field of view before exntiguishing. Most flared as they travelled...without leaving a glowing trail at all. Maybe a dozen or so (non-green-flare) ones had a longer trailing tail that disappeared briefly (maybe just after only a couple of seconds) after the meteor's passing. One of the green-flare meteors -- the first one we sighted that evening -- left a "luminous" smoke trail. It was rather strange...it actually seemed to have an electrostatic charge. It had a soft (but, kind of slightly "sparkly") glow to it that lasted for 5 or 10 minutes, at most. That is, the glow progressively dimmed -- got relatively less intense -- during the period. That also was the longest lasting smoke trail (and, the -- apparently...presumably -- lowest in altitude) of the three green-flare meteors. It lasted for a total of almost 20 minutes. >the color, such as, ie: Gas Flame, Gas Flame with green mixed, >Turquoise, _Turquoise_Green_, Turquoise Blue, etc. Did the >meteors sparkle or emit a More greenish than not, with that tinge of blue. Actually, each one of the green-flare ones were -- very briefly -- initially whiteish, then exhibited the green-flare for the bulk of their flight (about 80% of their path), with a final green flare-bloom, that was followed by what seemed to be a slight gap/blank space with a very final red flare-out. (No "sparkling" exhibited that I could tell...other than that one instance mentioned above in regard to the "luminous" smoke trail.) All the rest of the meteors we sighted that evening were white in color. None were "off"-white, or even yellow, at all. >sparkling effect from the main ball (or head, not referring to >its tail), such as, like a 4th of July sparkler ? (Already answered/addressed just above.) <snip> L8r, Bob Soetebier Tailwinds to you... See you ON the road! /// BICYCLE BOB /// bikebob@mo.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: New CIA Info On 'U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:31:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:15:01 -0500 Subject: Re: New CIA Info On 'U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue >From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: New CIA Info On 'U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue Book' >Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:54:07 GMT >Haines' article: >http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ufo.html >Before bringing the new material I would like to include the >e-mail which put me on the track. After that I'll quote from the >pages mentioned. >Note: CIA's 'Center for the Study of Intelligence' is at> >http://www.odci.gov/csi >The e-mail can be found at >http://www.ufomind.com/military/aircraft/skunkworks/mailing/msg01548.shtml ******* >Skunk Works Mailing List >No Title >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:04:12 -0500 >From: Joe Donoghue >The book, 'The CIA And The U-2 Program, 1954-1974', has been >posted on the CIA's Center for the Study of Intelligence web >site: >http://www.odci.gov/csi/books/U2/index.htm >Their 'What's New' page says "July 14, 1998" but it was not >there yesterday. Appears to have all the same blacked-out areas >as the book presented at the conference. It has been scanned in >so you have to load it a page at a time.> >Joe Donoghue ******* >The pages are at: >http://www.odci.gov/csi/books/U2/gifs/00000086.gif >and >http://www.odci.gov/csi/books/U2/gifs/00000087.gif *** <snip> *** OK, so now we have the original source whereas before we had professional CIA historian Haines's version of this report In his paper on the CIA/UFO connection). Still the same _Dumb_ (stupid) claim, that a large fraction or most UFO sightings in the latter half of the fifties were sightings of the U-2. My response two year ago was "what a crock...." I have the same response. Anyone interested in my CIA response (that had been posted here and probably resides at UFOMIND somewhere) can e-mail me with a request for same. >The following synopsis of 'The CIA And The U-2 Program, >1954-1974' can be found at: >http://www.odci.gov/csi/books/U2/synop.htm >Stig
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Blather: Kill For Jesus From: Daev Walsh - Blather <daev@blather.net> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 02:05:19 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:22:28 -0500 Subject: Blather: Kill For Jesus ______________________________________________________ B L A T H E R p a r a n o r m a l p r o v o c a t e u r i s m By Dave (daev) Walsh daev@blather.net Web: http://www.blather.net _______________________________________________________ November 20th 1998, Dublin, Ireland Vol 2. No. 28 _______________________________________________________ KILL FOR JESUS The very first issue of Blather *One of Our Bombers is Missing!*, way back on 12th May 1997, dealt with the terrific furore which had erupted over the demise of Capt. Craig Button, a U.S. Air Force pilot who had buried his A-10 bomber aircraft into the side of a Colorado mountain, with a full payload of bombs. All sorts of theories were bounced around back then, between connections to militia, the then forthcoming McVeigh trial, and claims of suicide due to sexual confusion. Considering the amount of US Air Force accidents that have failed to escape our attention in the past year or so, with F-16s dropping out of the sky at what appears to be regular intervals, it is curious as to why this one incident has refused to lie low. Was it merely the cargo of bombs, or something more interesting? The Air Force Office of Special Investigations has released a report concerning the matter. "No credible evidence to support theories of homosexuality, financial difficulties, family conflicts, militia ties or any other possible motivation has been discovered," said Major Steve Murray, a spokesperson for the Air Force. However, other motives, however tenuous, have apparently come to light. If, as some may claim, the military are covering up some deeper mystery, they certainty deserve credit for imaginative scapegoating. According to *The Tucson Citizen*, Button's mother was a Jehovah's Witness opposed to killing (does this mean that the mothers of other military folk are expressly unopposed to killing?), and a few days before his death, Button had asked his parents for "more information about the end of the world", which luckily seems to be available in pocket-sized pamphlet form. At least, a 'religious pamphlet' was found in Button's bed-stand, which described "God asking a father to sacrifice his only son on a burning pyre at the side of a mountain". A copy of - wait for it - *The Bible* was also found. Of course, the inference is that Button was the 'lone-nut with crazy religious beliefs' beloved of assassination investigations and the like. The inclusion of the Bible as a prop appears to be a rather underhand and shoddy piece of implication, not only inferring that anyone who has a copy is subject to suspicion, but also leading Blather staff to wonder about the fate that would befall us should an investigation ever ensue of HQ's bookcases, where far more lurid texts than the rather racy *Bible* are housed. Then again, this writer isn't entrusted with the controls of an A-10 bomber. "Capt. Craig Button intended to die or be rescued by divine intervention of God at the last possible moment," stated the Air Force report. The Tucson Citizen 18th November 1998 (http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/special_projects/button11_18_98_1.html) *Military still wondering why pilot crashed jet into mountain* Nando Times 19th November 1998 (http://www.nandotimes.com) Photo Source: Warthog Territory (http://www.ecis.com/~weasel/a10/photos/photos.html) Official USAF A-10 Thunderbolt Factsheet (http://www.af.mil/news/factsheets/a_10_oa_10_thunderbolt_ii.html) VIRGIN MARY LATEST This woman rarely stays out of the mainstream media these days, as she continues her unflagging world tour extravaganza, as remarked in *Georgian Archetypes* and *Straddling Two Worlds*. It's Canada these days, with appearances in Riverview, New Brunswick, on the back of a pizza billboard, and Cape Breton Island, also in New Brunswick, but this time on the brick siding of a Tim Horton's doughnut shop, causing disruptions in traffic. Such claims raise the ire of one Rev. Dan Bohan, a Catholic priest at Riverview's Immaculate Heart of Mary Church. "People seeing the image of the Blessed Virgin on a pizza billboard, Jesus on a washroom floor and Mother Teresa on a bun is something I don't consider very respectful", sez he. "There is no veil or face on the sign that I can see," he said. "It's just a crescent-shaped thing with a dark stain in front and a light one behind it. I think it's quite insulting that people would think this was how the Virgin Mary would appear to them. This and other examples only show that people are becoming caught up in the millennium hysteria... but they are not going to find them on a pizza sign or a doughnut shop." Aha, so as a man of the cloth, Rev. Bohan *would* of course know that if Yer Wan appeared, she'd have a veil on her. Very astute. *Virgin-sighting claims offend priest* (Victoria (BC) Times-Colonist, 19 Nov 1998, p. A9) *Jesus said appearing nightly at Canadian doughnut shop* Infobeat News, 24th September 1998 (http://www.infobeat.com/) Recent Virgin Mary coverage by Blather: (http://www.blather.net/archives2/issue2no23.html) (http://www.blather.net/archives2/issue2no24.html) CHUPACHUPALATEST In *Straddling Two Worlds*, Blather acknowledged a query concerning some rather dubious claims of a Chupacabras (Goatsucker) encounter in a Brazilian cave. We expressed our lack of faith in the accompanying photograph - one the witnesses practically posing with what appeared to be a giant bug. The ever reliable *UFO Roundup* has followed up the matter, announcing the suspension of further investigation in the cave, near Baldim, Minas Gerais, just 110km (69 miles) north of Belo Horizonte (Southeastern Brazil). The stoppage is due to lack of suitable equipment, insurance and implications, and to quote ufological investigator Vittorio Paccacini "most of the people there didn't feel comfortable with the idea of returning to the halls of that cave". The spelunkers who reported the creature have also contacted Paccacini, as they were unhappy with how their story and photo had been circulating about the Internet. We at Blather HQ can only sympathise. Original *UFO Roundup* Article and photos (Volume 3 Number 42, November 1998) (http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/v03/rnd03_42a.html) *UFO Roundup* followup (Volume 3 Number 45, November 1998) (http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/v03/rnd03_45.html) Original Blather comments: (http://www.blather.net/archives2/issue2no24.html) [This issue can be found at (http://www.blather.net/archives2/issue2no28.html)] _______________________________________________________ Dave (daev) Walsh 20th November 1998 daev@blather.net _______________________________________________________ SPONSORSHIP: While Blather will always remain free to the subscriber, we're always willing to talk to interested parties with regard to sponsorship. Contact: daev@blather.net _______________________________________________________ For the Blather archives, please go to: http://www.blather.net/archives/index.html _______________________________________________________ SUBSCRIBING TO BLATHER Send an email to: <list@blather.net> with the word subscribe in the body of the message. An automatic acknowledgement should be returned to you by e-mail within a few minutes. UNSUBSCRIBING Send an email to <list@blather.net> with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. TECHNICAL PROBLEMS If you are having any technical problems, please email admin@blather.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 New Area 51 Pictures From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:52:20 PST Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:25:26 -0500 Subject: New Area 51 Pictures Greetings list - The S4 Database website has just posted new pictures taken of Area 51 apparently within the past week (if the dates on the captions are correct). The pics are very high resolution and show the most detail I've seen in any Area 51 picture. You can take a look for yourself at: http://area51.icom.net/area51/newpics/ I'd be interested in hearing what the members of this list think of these new pictures. Take care. Best regards, - Blair Cummins ufoblair@hotmail.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Triangle Over UK's M1 Motorway From: David Baker <davbak@globalnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:23:09 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:29:51 -0500 Subject: Triangle Over UK's M1 Motorway Hello list, or more specifically the English members... Does anyone have any news of a 'Flying Triangle' seen on Sunday night, 22 November at around 8:05pm? It was seen hovering around 40 yards off the M1 Motorway, around a quarter of a mile from Junction 32. According to a lorry driver who reported it, "there were people getting out of their cars to look at it." It was about 60ft in length and covered in lights. I would be interested if anyone could help...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: New CIA Info On U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:26:22 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:39:59 -0500 Subject: Re: New CIA Info On U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue >From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk> >Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:54:07 GMT >Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:05:48 -0500 >Subject: New CIA Info On 'U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue <snip> >U-2s, UFOs, AND OPERATION BLUE BOOK >High-altitude testing of the U-2 soon led to an unexpected side >effect - a tremendous increase in reports of unidentified flying >objects (UFOs). In the mid-1950s, most commercial airliners flew >at altitudes between 10,000 and 20,000 feet and military >aircraft like the B-47s and B-57s operated at altitudes below >40,000 feet. Consequently, once U-2s started flying at altitudes >above 60,000 feet, air-traffic controllers began receiving >increasing numbers of UFO reports. >Such reports were most prevalent in the early evening hours from >pilots of airliners flying from east to west. When the sun >dropped below the horizon of an airliner flying at 20,000 feet, >the plane was in darkness. But, if a U-2 was airborne in the >vicinity of the airliner at the same time, its horizon from an >altitude of 60,000 feet was considerably more distant, and, >being so high in the sky, *its silver wings* >would catch and reflect the rays of the sun and >appear to the airliner pilot, >40,000 feet below, to be fiery objects. Even during daylight >hours, *the silver bodies* > of the high-flying U-2s could catch the >sun and cause reflections or glints that could be seen at lower >altitudes and even on the ground. At this time, no one believed >manned flight was possible above 60,000 feet, so no one expected >to see an object so high in the sky. Funny, the ones I saw were always painted black. Can someone knowledgeable comment on this, please? <snip> -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 [UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Perry van den Brink <UASR@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:24:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:45:54 -0500 Subject: [UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement Dear UASR list members and all, As some of you may already know, last week we at UASR decided to discontinue our feed from Peter Gersten's CAUS (Campaign Against UFO Secrecy). This may have come as something of a surprise to some, and we felt we should explain the action. Over recent weeks the CAUS postings have become, in our opinion, more off-topic and speculative than we would normally accept for posting on UASR. CAUS seems convinced that what we view as the result of a mis-fired hoax is actually real, and the CAUS original and forwarded postings all seem to reflect this monocular view at this time. There is an element of alarmism, from our perspective, that we do not wish to be a part of spreading further. We will still be monitoring the CAUS postings and forwarding any that seem to us to be of interest. We have removed our direct support for CAUS form our website, and we will not further support CAUS until such time as we feel that they have returned to the principals for which they were founded: The direct legal campaign against UFO secrecy. If you still wish to read CAUS posts you can of course subscribe to CAUS directly for yourselves. Please understand that we have not taken this action lightly, and that we have had immense respect for CAUS in the past, and I am sure we will do once again in the future, but for the time being we did not want to crowd our list with what we felt was information that was not pertinent to _our_ charter: Scientific investigation of UFOs, Aliens and Space Research. Thank you Dave Pigott & Lieve Peten Moderators, UASR. & Perry van den Brink,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 The 'Little People' [was: Abduction of Blacks] From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:46:51 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:06:24 -0500 Subject: The 'Little People' [was: Abduction of Blacks] >Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:16:26 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] >>Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:08:02 -0500 (EST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] >>Hey, all I want to know is when I get my prize!!!!????? >>They all sound like items to be cherished, and handed down from >>generation to generation. >>Bob >>BTW, the first abductees were Irish, carried off by the >>wee people. >You may jest Bob but it has been investigated in a very serious >manner that this abduction by the wee people may have _actually_ >happened_ and this is how the stories have been passed on. After >all are not most greys described as short etc etc ...... No, that was not really in jest. I have believed for some time that much of folklore is the result of the interaction between humans and something 'alien'. I do not mean that to imply extraterrestrial. There is considerable evidence, mostly swept under the rug, of a much smaller race of beings in antiquity. Physical evidence includes "elfshot", beautifully worked tiny arrowheads, along with other tools of too small a scale for humans, and many archeological sites in which the scale is just plain wrong for beings our size. I think we have co-evolved with another race, the little people who appear in the legends of nearly all peoples, and who advanced at a much faster rate than their hulking big cousins. I think they figured out the mysteries of space and time millennia ago, and have separated themselves from us, and removed or have hidden almost all evidence that they exist. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: The 'Little People' From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:49:31 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:24:29 -0500 Subject: Re: The 'Little People' >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:46:51 -0500 (EST) >Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:06:24 -0500 >Subject: The 'Little People' [was: Abduction of Blacks] Previously, Bob offered: >I have believed for some time >that much of folklore is the result of the interaction between >humans and something 'alien'. I do not mean that to imply >extraterrestrial. >There is considerable evidence, mostly swept under the rug, of a >much smaller race of beings in antiquity. Physical evidence >includes "elfshot", beautifully worked tiny arrowheads, along >with other tools of too small a scale for humans, and many >archeological sites in which the scale is just plain wrong for >beings our size. >I think we have co-evolved with another race, the little people >who appear in the legends of nearly all peoples, and who >advanced at a much faster rate than their hulking big cousins. >I think they figured out the mysteries of space and time >millennia ago, and have separated themselves from us, and >removed or have hidden almost all evidence that they exist. My response: I agree with your hypothesis regarding the existence of a smaller race of beings as the seed from which past legends have grown. However, if they were originally terrestrial creatures, what purpose would they have for removing evidence of their past from us? If they were as advanced as you feel, why should they care? Certainly we posed no more threat to them than a cow watching the launch of the space shuttle. And, for the record, just WHO is "sweeping considerable evidence under the rug" regarding evidence of these wee folk and, if they are, then how do you know about it? I mean, it's a secret or it ain't. I buy into your "wee folk" existence theory but the explanation you offer regarding the lack of evidence doesn't make much sense to me if they were terrestrial and had a long history on this planet. I do find this interesting, so please fill in the blanks... Later,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: Abduction of Blacks? From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:48:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:35:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? >Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:46:38 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? >At 11.13 23/11/98 -0500, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:43:21 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? >>Greg Sandow spent some time looking through the psychological >>publications and could not find _anything_ dealing with >>abductions or abductees. >Very strange, indeed! Yes, it would indeed have been strange if I'd found nothing at all. Actually, I did find abduction references. Psychological journals aren't exactly teeming with abduction papers, but there _are_ a few. Most are uninformed speculation, despite the fame (in one case, at least) of the psychologists involved. Normally, I'm sad to say, psychologists attempt to explain the abduction phenomenon without reading the literature on it first, which leads them to make elementary mistakes. (They'll say, for instance, that all abductees were UFO enthusiasts before deciding that they'd been abducted.) When I first searched the psychology literature in 1994, there was only one actual abduction case mentioned anywhere. This was in a book by a conservative hypnotherapist named Michael Nash, who'd had a patient suffering from anxiety due, the patient said, to being abducted by aliens. Nash assured the patient that the abductions weren't real, and then hypnotized him, in an attempt to learn where the apparent fantasies of aliens originated, and to relieve the anxiety. To Nash's astonishment, the patient came up with more of what he claimed were real abduction memories -- and his anxiety went away, even though he continued to believe his abductions were real. This, Nash said, was a new phenomenon. Apparently, he concluded, it's possible to relieve anxiety without dispelling the apprent fantasies involved in it. Since 1994, there have been a few more abduction cases in psychology journals. One involved a teenager (if my memory is correct) in a hospital, who said he was abducted by very large aliens. This prompted a fairly obvious comment by a psychoanalysit, who said the most likely cause of this was the patient's childhood experience with very large beings -- his parents. In 1996, the journal Psychological Inquiry devoted an entire issue to the abduction phenomenon. The lead article, with dozens of references to the abduction literature, was well informed. Most of the commentary on it was full of mistakes of the kind I've already mentioned. Two articles, one by sociologist Robert Hall, the other by John Mack and some of his colleagues, supported the reality of abductions. Obviously, psychologists are paying attention to abductions, with their attention rising as the phenomenon becomes better known.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: New CIA Info On 'U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:18:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:30:12 -0500 Subject: Re: New CIA Info On 'U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue >Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:31:21 -0500 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: New CIA Info On 'U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue Book' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: New CIA Info On 'U-2s, UFOs And Operation Blue Book' >>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:54:07 GMT ><snip> >OK, so now we have the original source whereas before we had >professional CIA historian Haines's version of this report >In his paper on the CIA/UFO connection). >Still the same _Dumb_ (stupid) claim, that a large fraction or >most UFO sightings in the latter half of the fifties were >sightings of the U-2. >My response two year ago was "what a crock...." >I have the same response. >Anyone interested in my CIA response (that had been posted here >and probably resides at UFOMIND somewhere) can e-mail me with a >request for same. <snip> Bruce, Don't be shy. A reference to your report can be found at: http://www.cninews.com/Search/CNI.0704.html Titled: CIA'S "SPYPLANE" EXPLANATION FOR UFOs DEBUNKED Subtitled: "Sighting Records Don't Match CIA Claim, Expert Says" A nice piece of work I might add, which has spared me quite a few hours of research but has brought me the usual frustration regarding the regular "official" attitude towards UFO.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: [UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:31:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:42:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >From: Perry van den Brink <UASR@gmx.net> >Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:24:17 +0100 >Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:45:54 -0500 >Subject: [UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >Dear UASR list members and all, >As some of you may already know, last week we at UASR decided to >discontinue our feed from Peter Gersten's CAUS (Campaign Against >UFO Secrecy). This may have come as something of a surprise to >some, and we felt we should explain the action. <snip> >Please understand that we have not taken this action lightly, >and that we have had immense respect for CAUS in the past, and I >am sure we will do once again in the future, but for the time >being we did not want to crowd our list with what we felt was >information that was not pertinent to _our_ charter: Scientific >investigation of UFOs, Aliens and Space Research. >Thank you >Dave Pigott & Lieve Peten >Moderators, UASR. >& >Perry van den Brink, >owner UASR. Gentlemen, This researcher echoes your sentiments, is actually relieved at your note and can certainly well imagine your action wasn't taken lightly. To me this was the only intelligent thing any serious researcher could have done in light of the recent posts emanating from Mr. Gersten at CAUS. In view of the respect I have held for CAUS in the past, this isn't easy for me to say either. Sincerely, Jerry Cohen Author: Oberg/Cooper rebuttals Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ UFOmind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: Posting Instructions From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:06:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:06:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Posting Instructions Posting Instructions To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and the UFO UpDates Instant Archive software at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates please observe the following rules when posting to the List. 1. Line-length Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net and leave awkward and eye-jarring line lengths. 2. Attribution When responding to a message from the List, _always_ include the four line 'header' from the body of that message at the _start_ of _your_ message - eg.: >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area Again - it's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you are responding to. 3. Quoting _Always_ quote from the message to which you are responding. Quotes should come _before_ you key your response. Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the first character. It should look like this: >Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the >first character. It should look like this: Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum: Just quote enough text to let people know what you are referring to. Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol or contain excessive quoting will not be posted to UpDates. The Archive software will automatically italicize these lines. Visit the Archive page and take a look. Most modern E-Mail software will allow the user to click a 'Reply' button and automatically open a new window, with the message being responded to inserted with universal quote-mark (>) at the beginning of each line. When 'Reply' is clicked, some E-Mail software will insert a line which states: On 01 Jan 97 at 00:00:01 EST, UFO UpDates wrote: If your program does this, please remove it - UFO UpDates did not _write_ the message - it merely posted it to the List. 5. Don't send 'personal' responses to the list that should be sent directly to the original author. Send a message to the list only if it contains new information that you want _everyone_ to see. Messages that contain what the List Administrator considers to be personal attacks or 'flames' will not be posted to the List. Those messages will be forwarded to the person they refer to for their information. 6. URLs (Web Site addresses) _must_ include 'http://' and be on one line. The Archive software will make the URL a 'click-able' link to that address in your archived message. 7. To un-subscribe, send a _new_ message with 'Un-subscribe' as the 'Subject: '
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 47 From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:49:03 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:57:58 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 47 From: Masinaigan@aol.com UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3, Number 47 November 24, 1998 Editor: Joseph Trainor WHITEHALL PLANS TROOP MOBILIZATION IN Y2K CRISIS Whitehall plans to call up thousands of UK Territorial Army reserves to deal with civil unrest sparked by the Year 2000 Computer Crisis, the British newspaper Sunday Mirror reported last week. The United Kingdom is now the second NATO member to announce deployment of troops during December 1999 as part of Operation Abacus. Two weeks ago, the Globe and Mail of Toronto announced that Canada would call up 60,000 troops to deal with the crisis. If Whitehall goes through with the plan, it will be the biggest deployment of Territorial Army troops since the start of World War II in September 1939. According to the Sunday Mirror, "Officers from British Army reserves have been put on alert to deal with the chaos of New Year's Eve 1999." "They have been asked to cope with possible civil unrest and communications disasters as the year 2000 begins. Whitehall fears the huge celebrations, plus integral computer failures due to the 'Millenium Bug' all have the capacity to bring about a 'Doomsday' scenario." "In a secret letter seen by the Sunday Mirror, the Army officer reservists are asked about their availability between December 22, 1999 and January 9, 2000." "The letter was posted from the Army Reservist Communications Centre at the Ministry of Defence (MoD) headquarters in Whitehall. It says problems on a national scale are expected, and it provides the first clear indication that troops will be on standby to cope with the expected Millenium Bug chaos." "The letter makes special reference to new reservist legislation with sections on civil unrest, defense of the nation, resources and national security." "An MoD spokesman would not confirm that the letter had been sent. 'Clearly the Army stands by for any form of assistance that civil authorities feel they need over the Millenium." Major UK metropolitan areas that may be affected by deployment could include London, Liverpool, Bristol, Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Southampton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, plus Edinburgh and Glasgow in Scotland and Cardiff in Wales. (See the Sunday Mirror for November 15, 1998, "Army calls in reserves for Millenium chaos," by Tim Luckett. Many thanks to John Hayes for forwarding this newspaper article.) DAZZLING UFO STARTLES A CROWD IN INDIA On Wednesday, November 11, 1998, at 5:30 p.m., Gaurav Hamish D., his family members, several neighbors and his college professor were standing outdoors in Malad Evershine Nagar, a suburb just west of the Kandivali section of Mumbai (Bombay) when they spotted an unusually bright UFO. "The anomalous light caught my attention because it was in a direction opposite from the setting sun," Gaurav reported. "That is, in the east. The source seemed as if it was the sun shining behind some clouds. The intensity of the light was about the brilliance of the sun in early morning--8:30 a.m. It was about 70 degrees from ground level. It could be compared to a great mirror in the sky, reflecting the rays of the setting sun." Gaurav said the crowd had the UFO in view until 7 p.m. (Email Interview) GUNBOATS FIRE AT UFOs OFF THE COAST OF SRI LANKA On Wednesday night, November 18, 1998, naval gunboats opened fire on UFOs at sea off Point Pedro, on the northern shore of Sri Lanka, an island nation adjacent to India. The small patrol craft of the Sri Lankan navy opened fire with 20mm cannon and small arms after spotting "unidentified aircraft" over the Indian Ocean north of the island. According to the Hindu Times, "The mystery over the 'unidentified aircraft' which was 'spotted by Navy personnel' over the northern seas off Sri Lanka continues with no indication of either the type of aircraft or its origin or purpose." "Sri Lankan military spokesman Brigadier Sunil Tenakkoon said that (although) the lights" seen were similar to an aircraft, 'There is no definite proof." "With no conclusive evidence to such reports, it would not be possible to say 'if it was an aeroplane or a helicopter,' he said." "All of the 'sightings' of the 'unidentified aircraft' took place 'during the nighttime' and 'only the lights were visible,' Brigadier Tenakkon said." The brigadier added that the sightings "were reportedly made by 'Navy personnel' running naval gunboars, who opened fire in the direction of the lights." (See the Hindu Times for November 20, 1998, "Mystery over aircraft continues," by V.S. Sambandan. Many thanks to Stig Agermose and Errol Bruce-Knapp for forwarding this newspaper article.) UFO FLIES OVER A SEAPORT IN SOUTHERN CHINA A UFO described as "apple-shaped" with "a trail of red and yellow flame" appeared over the port city of Xiamen in southern China on Tuesday, November 10, 1998 and was seen by hundreds of residents. The Communist Party newspaper People's Daily quoted "a China News Agency report saying the UFO was first spotted at dusk Tuesday (November 10), flying in a southwesterly direction for 20 minutes before disappearing, and again the next day." "Residents in the southern city of Xiamen had sighted an apple-like UFO with a tail of red and yellow flames...The report said the sighting of the UFO, which was also captured on film by the local television station, had Xiamen residents craning their heads skyward for the past two days, hoping for another appearance." "The report said aerospace experts had said that possibly a satellite had fallen out of orbit, causing the phenomenon." "It said most people had seen an optical illusion caused by light reflecting from the emissions of an aircraft." Xiamen is a port on the Taiwan Strait located 370 kilometers (222 miles) northeast of Hong Kong. (See People's Daily for November 14, 1998. Many thanks to Peter A. Gersten of CAUS for forwarding this newspaper article.) BLUE TRIANGULAR UFO SIGHTED IN COLOMBIA On Saturday, November 14, 1998, at 11 p.m., a UFO described as "a bluish triangular object" was spotted flying over the city of Riohacha in northern Colombia and "was seen by many people, although it was partially raining." The OVNI (Spanish acronym for UFO--J.T.) "could clearly be seen flying at about 3,500 feet on a controlled flight path heading southeast at about 450 to 500 nautical miles per hour." Eyewitness J.C.M. reported, "The object was certainly not part of the (Leonid) meteor showers occurring this week." J.C.M. added that, "in another recent incident" near Riohacha, "an object was seen in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta (elevation 18,000 feet or 5,454 meters) The object hovered at about 3,500 feet above ground level for a good long time. It was very bright, blue in color, then suddenly flew away at very high speed. Unfortunately, no pictures had been taken in this area." Riohacha is a port on the Caribbean Sea, in Colombia's La Guaira state, approximately 760 kilometers (475 miles) north of Bogota, the national capital. (Muchas gracias a J.C.M. para esas noticias colombianas.) BLACK HELICOPTERS LAY SIEGE TO MOUNTAIN TOWN Black helicopters laid siege to the town of Andrews, North Carolina (population 2,551) again last week, with sightings reported at all hours of the day and night. According to eyewitness Ramon S., town residents have seen "at least seven Army choppers that we are aware of. They have Hueys and Kiowa Cobras," i.e. U.S. Army UH-1H and OH-58D helicopters. "They have, among other things, virtually run people off the road. They hover 50 feet over homes at night," Ramon reported. "On Monday (November 16) they were running rappelling training during a light rain while hovering at 30 feet above the ground." "Last night (Wednesday, November 18, 1998) they were flying and stated on the scanner...they called themselves the Bad Boys...that they were testing their NODS (Night Optical Detection Systems), night optical lenses and photographic equipment by following cars and hovering over houses." Andrews, located on North Carolina Highways 19 and 129 about 325 miles (520 kilometers) southwest of Raleigh, has been the focus of an intensive law enforcement search for the past seven weeks. The search's quarry is Eric Rudolph, 32, who is wanted in connection with an abortion clinic bombing in Atlanta, Georgia. According to researcher Joseph Burton, who visited the town on Wednesday, November 11, and interviewed Ramon and other residents, "Others talk of the intentional harassment done by helicopters, and when they complained to the local sheriff, the FBI told the sheriff they couldn't have done it...their (National Guard) choppers were not equipped to fly at night." Ramon confirmed Burton's story that he and another resident, Phillip, were captured by the FBI the evening of November 11. According to Burton, "Apparently, Ramon's neighbor, a patriot named Phillip, had flashed one of the choppers with a toy laser that says I Love You." Unknown to Ramon and Phillip, however, an unidentified sniper had fired several shots at the FBI field headquarters, a renovated warehouse on Highway 129 in Andrews, at about 8 p.m. At 11 p.m., Ramon drove Phillip to the local police station so he could turn himself in. When they arrived in the parking lot, Ramon reported, a platoon of FBI agents in PSGAT helmets and body armor surrounded the truck and "ordered us to step away from the vehicle and lie face-down on the concrete." The two men were handcuffed and taken into custody. Ramon was released the next morning without being charged. Phillip was sent by van to the U.S. Marshals' field headquarters in Bryson City, N.C. (population 1,145), located 30 miles (48 kilometers) northeast of Andrews. He was detained for two days and then released on Friday, November 13. According to Burton, FBI Special Agent Terry Terchie "revealed that the Governor of North Carolina had declared a Special State of Emergency in western North Carolina." Andrews residents attempting to confirm this received conflicting replies from the governor's office as to whether or not the "special state of emergency" had actually been declared. Rumors of the presence of United Nations (UN) personnel in Andrews also circulated widely. Ramon said, "One newspaper stated that Russian troops training at Fort Bragg have helped in the search here with the FBI." Other residents claimed to have seen three UN observers at the Cherokee Restaurant in town. The men were described as Caucasian, ranging in age from 30 to 45, and wearing navy-blue jackets with the letters UN on the back and a white UN symbol patch on the shoulder. They reportedly were driving a white Chevy Suburban and paid for their meals with a Diner's Club credit card. As for Rudolph, the federal fugitive remains at large. Burton stated, "The sightings of Eric have now surpassed sightings of Elvis." (Many thanks to Joseph Burton, Dorothy H. Bibee, Rev. Billy Dee, plus thanks to Ramon S. for the email interview.) SILVER-GRAY FIREBALL SEEN IN SOUTHWESTERN OHIO Last week two women from Franklin, Tennessee were driving on Interstate Highway I-75 in Ohio when they spotted "a fireball in the sky." The women's car was travelling from Dayton south to Cincinnati when they spotted the object, which "looked comet-like. Then it stopped, because the tail of the comet disappeared." They described the UFO as "silver-gray and disc-shaped, but rounded on the top and sides." "We were traveling down I-75 when I looked up and saw what looked like a comet in the sky," the witness reported. "I pointed it out to my friend, and she saw it clearly also." "We both knew it definitely wasn't a plane. Then the 'tail' of the object disappeared, and it looked like it came to a stop. It was a little far away, and it went right over us. It was silvery-gray in color. It moved horizontally very quickly." (Many thanks to Ohio UFO researcher Kenneth Young for this news story.) VIRGINIA MAN SPOTS UFO DURING METEOR SHOWER On Wednesday, November 18, 1998, at approximately 1:40 a.m., Neal F. was "sitting in a lawn chair in a field directly behind my house" in New Kent, Virginia (population 500) when his wife came out to join him. He pointed out to her the radiant, the point in space where the Leonid meteors were coming from. "I was looking at (the constellation) Leo, which was fairly low, maybe 10 to 15 degrees above the horizon, in the east/ northeast." "Then I saw, right below Leo, a large triangle consisting of three small white lights. I couldn't see any body or solid part for the craft. At first I thought it was just a constellation. Then I realized that it wasn't there a second ago, and it couldn't have 'risen' that quickly." "I looked very closely and could detect slow movement to the north," Neal reported. "The triangle was about the size of a dime at arm's length. It was just above the tree line approximately 1,000 to 1,500 feet away. I got my wife to look at it, and it 'glided' away and went below the tree line northward. We stayed and watched for about 15 minutes but didn't see it again." (Many thanks to Jim Hickman of Skywatch International for forwarding this report.) UFO SEEN DURING LEONID SHOWER IN AUSTRALIA Australia reported three sightings of a bright UFO during the Leonid meteor shower last week. On Wednesday, November 18, 1998, at 3:20 a.m., ufologist George Mackay spied "a UFO going from left to right, then shot straight up" in Jimboomba, Queensland. Also at 3:20 a.m., in Stafford, South Australia, an amateur astronomer saw "a bright light going from left to right, then straight up." And, on Mount Nebo at 3:20 a.m., a witness "who was watching the meteor shower" from the upper slopes "said he believes he saw a UFO at around 3:20 a.m., northwest of the mountain. It did zigzag and shot straight up. His girlfriend and a friend saw it, too." (Many thanks to Diane Harrison of UFO Network Australasia for these reports.) MYSTERY GAS LAYS LOW STUDENTS IN TENNESSEE A strange, invisible gas has incapacitated students and faculty alike at the Warren County High School in McMinnville, Tennessee (population 12,000). According to USA Today, "Federal officials say they may never find what's causing mysterious fumes that have sickened students and teachers at Warren County High School." McMinnville is on Highway 55 approximately 86 miles (137 kilometers) southeast of Nashville. "Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) officials said lab tests of air samples confirm there is nothing wrong with air at the school. The noxious odor was first detected one-and-a-half weeks ago, sickening more than 90 students and teachers." (See USA Today for November 23, 1998, page 13A) ZARYA DEPARTS FOR SPACE Zarya (Russian for Sunrise), the first orbital component of the International Space Station, blasted off from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan on Friday, November 20, 1998. "A Russian Proton booster carried the module into its initial orbit 125 miles (200 kilometers) above Earth and the unit was operating as planned, officials said." "Space officials from 16 nations taking part in the project observed as the rocket soared into the cloudy sky above the central Asian steppe from the Baikonur launch pad yesterday --exactly a year later than planned. "'Now we have only 44 launches to go, 1,000 hours of space walks and countless problems, but because of the trust and mutual respect, the international space station is going to be a reality,' NASA chief Daniel Goldin told a press conference after the launch." (See the Boston, Mass. Herald for November 21, 1998, "Russian rocket launch marks new era in space exploration.") At a cost of $240 million, Zarya is the first of about 100 modules that will be used to build the space station. Zarya will provide the station's power, propulsion and early communications system. The next station-related launch will take place on December 3, 1998, when the space shuttle Endeavor heads for orbit. Endeavor's payload will consist of a $300 million connecting tunnel called Unity. "Zarya's launch 'opens the floodgates, and we start going,' says Bob Cabana, commander of space shuttle Endeavor, which is taking the second piece up next month. 'This is going to be one heck of a busy five years coming up.'" (See USA Today for November 20, 1998, "Space station finally getting off the ground," by Paul Hovenstern, page A4.) from the UFO Files... 1952: FLIGHT TO OBLIVION On November 28, 1952, Canadian pilot F. Jake did his pre-flight walkaround at the airport in Edmonton, Alberta. He was planning a long flight east to Toronto, and he wanted to be sure that his twin-engined Beech 35 was up to the job. Jake's Beech 35, registration number CF-FUV, took off easily and reported no trouble at all. Jake and his three passengers landed at the municipal airport in Houghton, Michigan, USA. After refueling, the plane continued on its eastward flight. "It had departed Houghton, Michigan and proceeded eastbound along the southern shore of Lake Superior. United States radar stations, constantly scanning the (USA/Canada) border kept close contact with CF-FUV." "If pilot F. Jake experienced a problem, all he had to do was extend his arm to the radio microphone, key the transmitter and say, 'Uniform Victor, Mayday.' If he had done it slowly, it would have taken four seconds...F. Jake did experience a problem. But he never transmitted his distress." "About 40 miles northwest of Grand Marais, Michigan, and 35 miles northeast of Marquette, Michigan, CF-FUV, F. Jake and all three passengers flew away. They vanished silently from the radar screen. The position was noted by the radar controller." "But 'despite an extensive search, no trace of the aircraft or occupants was found,' says the Canada Department of Transport summary accident report. The scientists who studied this strange case concluded that 'for undetermined reasons CF-FUV disappeared in Lake Superior.'" Curiously enough, dozens of ships have "gone missing" on that stretch of Lake Superior between Grand Marais and Marquette. This group includes two of the most notorious "ghost ships" of Lake Superior--the Bannockburn, which vanished on November 20, 1902, and the Adella Shores, which disappeared in April 1909. The wreckage of the Beech 35, the Bannockburn and the Adella Shores have never been found. (See THE GREAT LAKES TRIANGLE by Jay Gourley, Fawcett Publications, Inc., Greenwich, Conn., 1977, pages 24 and 25. See also HAUNTED LAKES by Frederick Stonehouse, Lake Superior Port Cities, Inc., Duluth, Minn. 1997, pages 66 to 67 and 92 to 93.) FUN UFO WEBSITES: A photo of the Bigfoot spotted in Ochopee, Florida a couple of months ago is now available at a website. Check it out at http://www.naplesnews.com/special/skunkape/skunkape.html If you have time to browse over the holiday, stop in at our parent site, UFOINFO. A wide array of UFO articles, photos and features awaits you. Set your browser on http://ufoinfo.com Back issues of UFO Roundup are available at our webpage. Feel free to drop in any time and read or download at http://ufoinfo.com/roundup Well, that's it for this week. Earth's satellites seem to have weathered the Leonid meteor storm-- the heaviest since 1966--rather well. Now the Hubble Space Telescope can come about and point its mirror at those unplumbed depths of the southern sky. We'll be back next week with more saucer news from around the planet, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-- UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: The 'Little People' From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:07:37 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:13:37 -0500 Subject: Re: The 'Little People' >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:49:31 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: The 'Little People' >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:46:51 -0500 (EST) >>Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:06:24 -0500 >>Subject: The 'Little People' [was: Abduction of Blacks] >Previously, Bob offered: >>I have believed for some time >>that much of folklore is the result of the interaction between >>humans and something 'alien'. I do not mean that to imply >>extraterrestrial. >>There is considerable evidence, mostly swept under the rug, of a >>much smaller race of beings in antiquity. Physical evidence >>includes "elfshot", beautifully worked tiny arrowheads, along >>with other tools of too small a scale for humans, and many >>archeological sites in which the scale is just plain wrong for >>beings our size. >>I think we have co-evolved with another race, the little people >>who appear in the legends of nearly all peoples, and who >>advanced at a much faster rate than their hulking big cousins. >>I think they figured out the mysteries of space and time >>millennia ago, and have separated themselves from us, and >>removed or have hidden almost all evidence that they exist. >My response: >I agree with your hypothesis regarding the existence of a >smaller race of beings as the seed from which past legends have >grown. However, if they were originally terrestrial creatures, >what purpose would they have for removing evidence of their past >from us? If they were as advanced as you feel, why should they >care? Certainly we posed no more threat to them than a cow >watching the launch of the space shuttle. One thing I pick up on from some abductees I talk to is a sense that their abductors are, in fact, terrified of them. We humans have emotions, and considerable power. >And, for the record, just WHO is "sweeping considerable evidence >under the rug" regarding evidence of these wee folk and, if they >are, then how do you know about it? I mean, it's a secret or it >ain't. There is lots of material put in drawers in museums and just forgotten because it doesn't fit the prevailing theories. A good starting point is the book Forbidden Archeology, which discusses a lot of this material. >I buy into your "wee folk" existence theory but the explanation >you offer regarding the lack of evidence doesn't make much sense >to me if they were terrestrial and had a long history on this >planet. >I do find this interesting, so please fill in the blanks... I'm leaving for Thanksgiving in the morning, back Monday, so no time to go into things in any depth at the moment. If you want more info, ask me again next week. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 24 Re: The 'Little People' From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:31:02 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:16:08 -0500 Subject: Re: The 'Little People' >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:49:31 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: The 'Little People' >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:46:51 -0500 (EST) >>Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:06:24 -0500 >>Subject: The 'Little People' [was: Abduction of Blacks] This may not be of any value to this discussion, but a friend of mine's wife, living in Kansas, attended Kansas State University, with a woman who became and archeologist. This friend was invited to take part in the excavation of a "small" walled city in the lower part of Central America, or the upper corner of South America. I don't recall which.... However, during their dig, they unearthed this small city, with walls about four or five feet high and the houses within the city were small...the door ways were about 18 inches to 24 inches high. I wish I could remember more details, but this was back in 1989 or 90... My friends wife finally graduated and lost touch with her archeologist friend. I would appreciate any help with this post, if anyone out there has any knowledge of this. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 25 Re: Incident at Exeter? From: Robert Earle <Robert_Earle/UT/ASP@autolivasp.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:39:15 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 05:51:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Incident at Exeter? If you have any information that you can post to the list about this incident it would be greatly appreciated. At the current time I have only very limited internet access (Mostly email) and rely on the lists for much of the information I get from cyberspace. Thanks in advance. R. Earle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 25 Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:36:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:02:40 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:31:50 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Re: UASR and CAUS - Statement >>From: Perry van den Brink <UASR@gmx.net> >>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:24:17 +0100 >>Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:45:54 -0500 >>Subject: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>Dear UASR list members and all, >>As some of you may already know, last week we at UASR decided to >>discontinue our feed from Peter Gersten's CAUS (Campaign Against >>UFO Secrecy). This may have come as something of a surprise to >>some, and we felt we should explain the action. ><snip> >>Please understand that we have not taken this action lightly, >>and that we have had immense respect for CAUS in the past, and I >>am sure we will do once again in the future, but for the time >>being we did not want to crowd our list with what we felt was >>information that was not pertinent to _our_ charter: Scientific >>investigation of UFOs, Aliens and Space Research. >>Thank you >>Dave Pigott & Lieve Peten >>Moderators, UASR. >>& >>Perry van den Brink, >>owner UASR. Gentlemen, I was saddened but not at all surprised by UASR's censorship of postings from Peter Gersten and CAUS. This is because this is the second instance of censorship by UASR that I personally know of on similarly specious grounds. So I am not surprised but I am shocked at the justifications for censorship that are being posted by other members of this list. This is reprehensible, particularly so because of the reasoning that is being used - sentiments to the effect that the respectability of the field is somehow diminished by Peter's postings. That he has in someway strayed to far from logic or some other value that the critic holds dear. Well face it folks, just by subscribing and participating in a list like this you are placing yourself way beyond two standard deviations from the norm. It hardly seems to me that this is the forum for the pot to be calling the kettle black. These sentiments would better belong in the CISCOP journal than in suppressing Peter's postings. Yet there is much to be gained from reading all of these sources directly, uncensored and I do. I think that having Peter posting and having the opportunity to correspond with him is of inestimable value. Till now where else could one observe players in the field in action? For instance... We have had the opportunity to observe Kal Korff in full debunking mode flash in and out of this list, ignoring any and all calls for response to David Rudiaks postings. Korff even threatened his livelihood! Was he censored for that behavior? Why no, as we all have seen. We have seen wonderful fragfests involving and tens of postings by "famous" names in this field leading absolutely nowhere and furthering no research goal in the field other than perhaps character assassinations. Were these individuals censored for their behavior? Why no, as we all have seen. I could cite several other examples but I am sure you get my drift. I know Peter is doing me no harm when I read his posts and I am sure that you know he is doing none to you either. The respectability of this field was lost back in the 1950s when the Robertson Panel cracked down and drove serious study in the field, other than by sanctioned investigators and organizations, underground. Get used to it. For the mainstream this is a field of and for pariahs and until "authority" should if ever in its wisdom recognize the field, it will so remain. If Peter is going to fall on his own sword then so be it. Censorship in this field kept the issues of occupants and landings from being discussed for many years. Till then these things, these UFOs, just flew around and didn't know how to park! The discussion of the issue of abductions in the United States was delayed, nearly ten years after its appearance in Latin America, by self censorship. The study of intelligence and counterintelligence operations in this field has been impeded by censorship too, edited out of the "mainstream" reference works and publications. Enough of this. Peter should be able to speak in his way, in his time so that we may individually hear what he has to say. I won't be following him to any ascending UFOs but if he is as knowledgeable a tour guide of the Sedona region as he sounds to me then I can only say I wish I had some time to visit with him. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 25 [CAUS updates] - Banned from UASR Mailing List From: UFOLAWYER1@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:17:25 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:01:58 -0500 Subject: [CAUS updates] - Banned from UASR Mailing List Dear CAUS Members: In a move reminiscent of totalitarian news censorship, the UASR, (UFO's-, ALIEN's-, SPACE- RESEARCH) a UFO mailing list that has posted every CAUSupdate for the past six months, has banned CAUSupdates "until such time as we (Dave Pigott, Lieve Peten & Perry van den Brink) feel that they (CAUS) have returned to the principals for which they were founded: The direct legal campaign against UFO secrecy." Besides creating their own CAUS principle, UASR is now, admittedly, an organization where three individuals decide what its readers can and cannot read. It appears that the leadership of UASR does not trust the intelligence of its readership to discern for themselves what they should read or delete. UASR's explanation that 'over recent weeks the CAUS postings have become, in our opinion, more off-topic and speculative than we would normally accept for posting on UASR' is also inaccurate. If that is true, then why, over the past six months, have UASR been posting the Non-UFO Sunday CAUSpdates? How did the Sunday Non-UFO messages contribute to UASR's charter of 'scientific investigation of UFOs, Aliens and Space Research?' Or is it that UASR simply needs some justification, no matter how untrue, for their blatant censorship of what they find personally objectionable. So much for objective reporting. Interesting mindset of three People who believe they can decide what the majority should read. Where have we seen this before? Is this, banning controversial ideas, the beginning of a new trend, or a continuation of an old one? Their statement that 'we will still be monitoring the CAUS postings and forwarding any that seem to us to be of interest' speaks for itself. I guess what's good for them is not good for their readers...unless they allow it. But what can you expect from an organization that does not know, after posting the CAUSupdates and supporting the CAUS for six months, the correct name for CAUS and refers to it as: 'Campaign Against UFO Secrecy.' In all fairness, I will give the benefit of the doubt to UASR and attribute their error to carelessness, rather than disrespect. The UASR announcement follows: Dear UASR list members and all, As some of you may already know, last week we at UASR decided to discontinue our feed from Peter Gersten's CAUS (Campaign Against UFO Secrecy). This may have come as something of a surprise to some, and we felt we should explain the action. Over recent weeks the CAUS postings have become, in our opinion, more off-topic and speculative than we would normally accept for posting on UASR. CAUS seems convinced that what we view as the result of a mis-fired hoax is actually real, and the CAUS original and forwarded postings all seem to reflect this monocular view at this time. There is an element of alarmism, from our perspective, that we do not wish to be a part of spreading further. We will still be monitoring the CAUS postings and forwarding any that seem to us to be of interest. We have removed our direct support for CAUS form our website, and we will not further support CAUS until such time as we feel that they have returned to the principals for which they were founded: The direct legal campaign against UFO secrecy. If you still wish to read CAUS posts you can of course subscribe to CAUS directly for yourselves. Please understand that we have not taken this action lightly, and that we have had immense respect for CAUS in the past, and I am sure we will do once again in the future, but for the time being we did not want to crowd our list with what we felt was information that was not pertinent to *our* charter: Scientific investigation of UFOs, Aliens and Space Research. Be sure to visit the CAUS web site at http://caus.org To join this mailing list, go to http://caus.org/feedback.htm To be REMOVED from this mailing list, go to... http://caus.org/remove/ Served by TheHostPros.com - http://TheHostPros.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 25 UFOs - Ersatz Exposure, Oh Shocking! From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:01:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:16:48 -0500 Subject: UFOs - Ersatz Exposure, Oh Shocking! The 1950s and UFOs; Ersatz Exposure in the Standard Literature! The publication of UFO books has reached epidemic levels in the United States as this brutal century reaches its end. Most of these books have as their stock and trade some kind of revelation, usually of some heretofore great secret. But the hype is rarely justified. Usually this is because most authors in this field are not first rate thinkers, though they might be able to pile up 'facts' till the cows come home. Once they've made the pile sufficiently large they publish the lot and crow about the enormity of the haul. But what they usually have done is created a mountain of data combined with only a molehill of meaning. Such is the case with one recent 'exposure' of early 1950 military and "civilian" UFO history. The author is shocked, absolutely shocked, that an earlier writer in this arena deliberately omitted and distorted important information. Breathlessly he informs us that things are not as they seem! All I can do is smile, primarily because this current 'exposeur' presents his own censored and distorted version of 'history'. For instance, this writer forgets, or does not know, that astronomer Dr. J. Allen Hynek survived the SIGN/GRUDGE purge (curiously the sole survivor?) and had been part of the cover SAUCER program that flew wing for SIGN with the public. Part of Hynek's job was to act as an 'expert' outside his field, which was outer space. UFOs, as we know, occur in the atmosphere, an area where someone like Dr. James McDonald, atmospheric physicist, was the expert! But no one challenged the astronomer's pre-emption of the UFO, did they, at least, no one until McDonald came along. Anyway, in his capacity as 'expert' Hynek cranked out nonsense 'explanations' of solid UFOs that had been reported by good professionals, who were thus held up to ridicule. What can we call this besides a form of disingenuous betrayal? Has everyone forgotten the awesome skewering that Hynek received from McDonald in connection with his (Hynek's) UFO debunking, debunking he had done while in the employ of the Air Force (wink, wink,) in a 'cover project' for SIGN? Apparently so. That is, somehow over the last forty years the scientist/intelligence agent has been converted into a kindly old gent who, with pipe-in-hand, had the interests of us all at heart. Well, Dr. McDonald didn't feel that way and you can check out Jacques Vallee's book, Forbidden Science, for the details. And you can check Hynek's vita and note that he started his career in Top Secret projects at Johns Hopkins during World War II. Folks, it's the 1990s, almost the year 2000. Isn't it about time we all wised up a little? Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 25 Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:31:27 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:20:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >To: Roger R. Prokic <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> >Date: Mon 23 Nov, 1998 14:53 >This page at Malin Space Science Systems has a movie that shows >the Mars Descent Imager Entry, Descent & Landing test results >for the Mars Polar Lander. >http://www.msss.com/stuff/edl4/ >I wonder if this could be another sign for CAUS. >Roger R. Prokic >Telecom Design Lead >Mars Surveyor Program >Lockheed Martin Astronautics >Denver, Colorado USA >-=[ sent from a 3Com Palm III & Multimail Pro v2.11b ]=- Dear Roger: All I see is a clumsily animated grey alien 'waving' at me in front of what looks like a radar dish. Is that the joke? - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 25 Osiris - Gram [Larry Dean Hunter's Site Is Up] From: Larry Dean Hunter <alcat@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:46:57 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:41:53 -0500 Subject: Osiris - Gram [Larry Dean Hunter's Site Is Up] Dear Readers, On Nov. 23, 2998 I updated my web site, you might want to re-enter the www.larryhunter.com/ URL to get the updates.. I apologize for the slow loading. I will be redoing the home page very quickly and start to introduce the story of Hall of Records. It won the voting by you as the story to hear first.. Thank you all for your input and comments. Those on this list that don't want to receive these Osiris-Gram emails please send an email to remove@larryhunter.com/ Those of you that want to help, spread the word by passing the address to my web site to your friends or people that you think would be interested in knowing about Egypt and her secrets.... Love, Light and Enlightenment. Sincerely, your humble servant in truth Larry D. Hunter
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 25 Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:02:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:33:24 -0500 Subject: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth Source: http://www.eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-1998/pr-18-98.html Stig ******* Information from the European Southern Observatory ESO Press Release 18/98 24 November 1998 For immediate release Extrasolar Planet in Double Star System Discovered from La Silla Early Success With New Swiss Telescope *** During the past three years, about fifteen planetary companions have been discovered in orbits around dwarf stars. They have revealed to astrophysicists a broad diversity of planetary systems at other stars. Giant planets with masses ranging from half to several times the mass of Jupiter, the largest planet in our own solar system, have been detected with various telescopes. The orbital periods range from 3.1 to 1650 days; while some of the orbits are of circular shape, others are very elongated. The observed diversity naturally raises questions about how these exoplanets are formed. Now, following only a few months of observations, a Swiss team of astronomers [1], working with a new Swiss astronomical facility at the ESO La Silla Observatory mainly dedicated to the search for exoplanets, has made its first planetary detection. It is a massive planet moving in an almost circular orbit around a nearby star that is itself the primary component of a double star system. The Geneva southern extrasolar planet search programme ESO PR Photo 45a/98 [Preview - JPEG: 800 x 640 pix - 456k] [High-Res - JPEG: 3000 x 2400 pix - 2.7Mb] ESO PR Photo 45b/98 [Preview - JPEG: 800 x 953 pix - 296k] [High-Res - JPEG: 3000 x 3572 pix - 2.3Mb]=BFPR Photo 45a/98 (left) is a view of the dome with the 1.2-m Swiss Leonard Euler Telescope at the ESO La Silla Observatory. The telescope itself is shown in Photo 45b/98 (right). In June 1998, the CORALIE echelle spectrograph was mounted at the 1.2-m Swiss telescope at La Silla and the commissioning phase was begun, during which the telescope and the spectrograph would be trimmed to perfection. This facility is specifically designed for high-precision radial-velocity measurements and it will mostly be used for an ambitious search for large extrasolar planets around stars in the southern celestial hemisphere. Over 1000 stars will be investigated. Such a vast observational programme is only feasible with a very accurate and efficient instrumental combination. The new Leonard Euler telescope with a 120-cm main mirror was built at the Geneva Observatory and named in honour of the famous Swiss mathematician (1707-1783). The CORALIE spectrograph was developed through a collaboration between this observatory and the Haute-Provence Observatory (OHP) in France. It is an improved version of the ELODIE spectrograph now in operation at OHP, and with which the first extrasolar planet was found around the star 51 Pegasi, three years ago. Compared to its predecessor, CORALIE has increased spectral resolution, as well as a more efficient light detector. It also has improved instrumental control that features complete on-line data reduction and analysis. CORALIE is so accurate that it can measure the motion of a star in the direction of line-of-sight (the "radial velocity") with a precision that is better than 7 m/sec or 25 km/hour, i.e. about the speed of a fast human runner. While still in the commissioning phase, very valuable scientific data have been gathered for the star known as Gliese 876, the closest and lightest star with a planetary companion found so far. And just as the new facility has become fully operational, it has already yielded its first extrasolar planet discovery. Discovery of a heavy planet in orbit around "Gliese 86" Gliese 86 (also known as "HD 13445") is seen in the southern constellation Eridanus (The River). It is a bright, rather cool dwarf star, somewhat less massive than the Sun (about 0.79 solar mass). It is also intrinsically fainter than the Sun (about 0.4 solar luminosity). However, since it is quite nearby - about 35 light-years only - its apparent magnitude is comparatively bright and it is just at the limit of what can be seen with the unaided eye (mV=3D 6.12). Contrary to most stars with known planetary companions, Gliese 86 contains less metals than our Sun, by a factor of two. Since September 1998, the Swiss astronomers have obtained 29 high-precision radial-velocity measurements of Gliese 86. A planet in orbit around a star will manifest its presence by pulling the star in different directions, thereby changing by rather small amounts its measured velocity. ESO PR Photo 45c/98 [Preview - JPEG: 800 x 887 pix - 260k] [High-Res - JPEG: 3000 x 3325 pix - 910k]=BFPR Photo 45c/98 (left) shows the measurements (with error bars) of the radial velocity (Vr vrs. orbital phase) of Gliese 86 with the new 1.2-m Swiss telescope and the CORALIE spectrograph at La Silla. They have been "phase-folded" with a period of 15.83 days and the diagramme thus represents one revolution of the planet around the star. The fully drawn line corresponds to the best orbital solution, obtained by least-square fitting a simple two-body model (star + planet) to the data. As can be seen, the agreement is near perfect and the dispersion of the measurements around this line is very small. The orbit of the new planet (PR Photo 45c/98) has a period of 15.83 days. The total velocity variation is 740 m/sec, very easy to detect with CORALIE. The orbit is slightly non-circular and has a small, but significant eccentricity of 0.05. The dispersion of the radial-velocity values around the orbital solution is only 7 m/sec; this includes statistical errors, spectrograph systematic errors and intrinsic stellar variations. The inferred minimum mass for the planetary companion is 4.9 times the mass of planet Jupiter. The new planet is at a distance of only 0.11 AU (16.5 million km) from the star, i.e. just over one tenth of the Sun-Earth distance. The surface temperature on the planet is quite high, about 380 oC. It is the second closest exoplanetary system discovered to date. A planet around a double star >From the long-term drift observed in the radial-velocity measurements during the past 15 years with another spectrograph at the La Silla Observatory, it is known that Gliese 86 is not a single star, but in fact a long-period "spectroscopic" binary system. The separation between the two stars is probably more than one hundred times larger than that between the planet and the star it revolves around. The observed characteristics of the new planet, e.g., its rather large mass and almost circular orbit, associated with this double-star nature, indicate that planetary systems may form in other ways than the standard agglomeration scheme. For instance, recent theoretical calculations by Alan Boss (Carnegie Institute of Washington, USA) suggest that multi-Jupiter-mass planets may be formed through dynamical instabilities in a protoplanetary disk that are induced by the gravitational action of a nearby stellar companion. One important result of this new, extensive survey carried out in the southern sky will be to provide potential targets for the VLTI (Very Large Telescope Interferometer), presently being built by ESO on Cerro Paranal. When it enters into operation some years from now, it will be able to provide exciting additional information about these planets and their nature. Note: [1] The team consists of Didier Queloz (also Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, USA), Michel Mayor, Luc Weber, Dominique Naef, Stephane Udry, Nuno Santos, Andre Blecha and Michel Burnet (Geneva Observatory, Switzerland) and Bastien Confino (St. Luc Observatory, Switzerland). The members of team want to express their gratitude to all the technical staff of the Geneva Observatory, in particular Daniel Huguenin, Rene Dubosson, Giovanni Russiniello and Charles Maire for their great efforts, from the design to the final installation of the Swiss Leonard Euler telescope at La Silla. How to obtain ESO Press Information ESO Press Information is made available on the World-Wide Web (URL: http://www.eso.org/outreach/press-rel/). ESO Press Photos may be reproduced, if credit is given to the European Southern Observatory. Send comments to <ips@eso.org> Last update: November 24, 1998
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 25 UK M1 Motorway Flying Triangle - 22/11/98 From: Omar Fowler <Bontor@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:04:16 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:37:24 -0500 Subject: UK M1 Motorway Flying Triangle - 22/11/98 Hi There UFO Updates: A Flying Triangle sighting was reported to me at 2040hrs on the night of 22nd November 98. The tel/call came from a fellow member of our UFO group (P.R.A), who had been phoned on a mobile, from a friend who was motoring in a car, down the M1 at 2005hrs. The driver saw a large black Flying Triangle hovering, low down, just off the M1 motorway about a 1/4 mile north of the M1-M18 motorway junction (Jct.32). The witness described the FT as huge with numerous lights and appeared to be made up of a girder-like structure. He was unable to stop, but mentioned that other drivers had stopped on the 'hard shoulder' to look at the FT craft. A later report from a driver coming off the M1 and heading towards the Sheffield area, (adjacent to the M1/M18 junction) reported a roaring sound high in the sky at about 2005 and he also stated that he did not believe that it was an aircraft noise. Omar Fowler Phenomenon Research Association. Derby. England.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 25 SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:19:58 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:08:25 -0500 Subject: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House SETI, is entirely funded with private donations, and that is fine. But requesting government money as funding is starting once again. The purpose of SETI, as I understand it, is to determine if extraterrestrial intelligent life EXISTS. SETI should not be confused with any radio-astronomy search of our universe. It was devised to answer one question ONLY, which is, does intelligent extraterrestrial life EXIST, If SETI's purpose is to find out where ET's are from, study ET's history and culture, or transfer ET's technology for mankind's use, then SETI is not useless. However, SETI is not looking for such information. Manufactured craft with capabilities that can not be demonstrated by anything made on our planet, are trespassing our airspace. This is fact. They have been witnessed by aeronautical engineers, pilots, and astronauts. Records of radar reports, photographs, video-tapes, and samples of earth glazed at alleged landing sites have been submitted for examination. None of earth's military or science can duplicate the aeronautical feats or invisibility capabilities of such craft. Inter-dimensional creatures, time travelers, ghosts, angels, or demons, if such were responsible for trespassing our airspace, would not need any "nuts and bolts" manufactured craft to visit our planet. Some species, civilization, or intelligence is manufacturing, piloting and/or controlling such craft, which cannot be duplicated by current earthly knowledge. Would we like to know where such craft come from? Certainly. Would we like to examine the history and culture of any civilization producing such craft? Yes. Would we like to adopt technology that seems to be far advanced? Positively. Is SETI after such information? NO. SETI is electromagnetically searching for proof that extraterrestrial intelligent life EXISTS. Reliance on SETI for such proof, in my opinion, negates and ridicules all the evidence collected showing intelligent species, not of this planet, are visiting this planet. Radio astronomy is not useless for exploring our universe, but SETI is a joke, a waste of time, money, and talent, period. == Doc Barry ~~~~~Get BREAKING news plus UFO/ET news - NOW - click on "What's Up Doc?" http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/5518
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 25 Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Marie Ivey <jmi@aretha.jax.org> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:43:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:10:25 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:36:16 -0500 >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:31:50 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> >>Subject: Re: UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>From: Perry van den Brink <UASR@gmx.net> >>>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:24:17 +0100 >>>Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:45:54 -0500 >>>Subject: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >><snip> >>>Please understand that we have not taken this action lightly, >>>and that we have had immense respect for CAUS in the past, and I >>>am sure we will do once again in the future, but for the time >>>being we did not want to crowd our list with what we felt was >>>information that was not pertinent to _our_ charter: Scientific >>>investigation of UFOs, Aliens and Space Research. >>>Thank you >>>Dave Pigott & Lieve Peten >>>Moderators, UASR. >>>& >>>Perry van den Brink, >>>owner UASR. <snip> >So I am not surprised but I am shocked at the justifications for >censorship that are being posted by other members of this list. >This is reprehensible, particularly so because of the reasoning >that is being used - sentiments to the effect that the >respectability of the field is somehow diminished by Peter's >postings. That he has in someway strayed to far from logic or >some other value that the critic holds dear. >Well face it folks, just by subscribing and participating in a >list like this you are placing yourself way beyond two standard >deviations from the norm. It hardly seems to me that this is >the forum for the pot to be calling the kettle black. These >sentiments would better belong in the CISCOP journal than in >suppressing Peter's postings. Yet there is much to be gained >from reading all of these sources directly, uncensored and I do. >I think that having Peter posting and having the opportunity to >correspond with him is of inestimable value. >Till now where else could one observe players in the field in >action? For instance... >We have had the opportunity to observe Kal Korff in full >debunking mode flash in and out of this list, ignoring any and >all calls for response to David Rudiaks postings. Korff even >threatened his livelihood! Was he censored for that behavior? >Why no, as we all have seen. >We have seen wonderful fragfests involving and tens of postings >by "famous" names in this field leading absolutely nowhere and >furthering no research goal in the field other than perhaps >character assassinations. Were these individuals censored for >their behavior? Why no, as we all have seen. >I could cite several other examples but I am sure you get my >drift. >I know Peter is doing me no harm when I read his posts and I am >sure that you know he is doing none to you either. <snip> Agreed! Censorship seems inappropriate for these lists unless, of course, there are those making personal attacks. We need all views to sort out what we can reasonably accept. No censorship without just "Caus". Best regards, Marie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 25 Re: UFOs - Ersatz Exposure, Oh Shocking! From: Loy Pressley <lkpres@koyote.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:57:03 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:14:13 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs - Ersatz Exposure, Oh Shocking! >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:01:11 -0500 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFOs - Ersatz Exposure, Oh Shocking! >The 1950s and UFOs; >Ersatz Exposure in the Standard Literature! <snip> >Anyway, in his capacity as 'expert' Hynek cranked out nonsense >'explanations' of solid UFOs that had been reported by good >professionals, who were thus held up to ridicule. What can we >call this besides a form of disingenuous betrayal? Has everyone >forgotten the awesome skewering that Hynek received from >McDonald in connection with his (Hynek's) UFO debunking, >debunking he had done while in the employ of the Air Force >(wink, wink,) in a 'cover project' for SIGN? Apparently so. >That is, somehow over the last forty years the >scientist/intelligence agent has been converted into a kindly >old gent who, with pipe-in-hand, had the interests of us all at >heart. <snip> Dr. Hynek, in the end, was not a debunker. In his book, The UFO Experience: A Scientific Inquiry, Copyright 1972 by J. Allen Hynek, he advocated an intense scientific investigation of UFOs be done by the most prominent scientists of the day. The sincerity of the witnesses that he personally interviewed and his personal investigation of many sightings had led him to believe that UFOs were a true phenomena worthy of examination. He felt that unraveling the mystery of UFOs would lead to a quantum leap in the level of scientific knowledge. In reality, Dr. Hynek's association with Project Blue Book, etc., turned him from the absolute skeptic that he was in the beginning to someone who believed that there was concrete substance to the UFO phenomena. Quoted from the jacket of his book: "Professor Hynek was throughout its existence, the official astronomical consultant to the U.S. Air force's Project Blue Book, the final official arbiters on all UFO reports. Further, Dr. Hynek, currently the Director of the Lindheimer Astronomical Research Center, at Northwestern University and Chairman of Northwestern's Astronomical Department, has served as Associate Director of the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge, Mass., as well as heading its NASA-sponsored satellite tracking program. With such credentials and experience Professor Hynek does not lightly challenge the official UFO line. But to him the evidence is irrefutable. The UFO thesis has NOT been disproved. The questions raised by the cases he cites have never been answered. But Dr. Hynek does not just pose awkward questions; he also proposes a means whereby a process of scientific verification can be established." Loy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 25 Re: Incident at Exeter? From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:05:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:16:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Incident at Exeter? >From: Robert Earle <Robert_Earle/UT/ASP@autolivasp.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:39:15 -0700 >Subject: Incident at Exeter? >If you have any information that you can post to the list about >this incident it would be greatly appreciated. At the current >time I have only very limited internet access (Mostly email) and >rely on the lists for much of the information I get from >cyberspace. >Thanks in advance. >R. Earle How about trying John Fuller's book 'Incident at Exeter'? Also Peter Geremia in Portsmouth NH has done a lot of digging. Fuller's papers are at Boston University Library Archives. Advance appointments are required. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 25 Re: The 'Little People' From: Asgeir Waehre Skavhaug <KONAWS@statoil.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:19:47 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:22:17 -0500 Subject: Re: The 'Little People' >Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:46:51 -0500 (EST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: The 'Little People' [was: Abduction of Blacks] >>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:16:26 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] >>>Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:08:02 -0500 (EST) >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks [The Finalists] >>Hey, all I want to know is when I get my prize!!!!????? <snip> >There is considerable evidence, mostly swept under the rug, of a >much smaller race of beings in antiquity. Physical evidence >includes "elfshot", beautifully worked tiny arrowheads, along >with other tools of too small a scale for humans, and many >archeological sites in which the scale is just plain wrong for >beings our size. >I think we have co-evolved with another race, the little people >who appear in the legends of nearly all peoples, and who >advanced at a much faster rate than their hulking big cousins. >I think they figured out the mysteries of space and time >millennia ago, and have separated themselves from us, and >removed or have hidden almost all evidence that they exist. >Bob Bob & List, Where do you think the 'little people' are today, Bob? Well, it might be possible that this people are 'hidden' - for the most of us - in an other dimension, and only 'seen' by a few. I remember a year ago watching a privatly recorded video recording (shown on a Norwegian TV channel) showing a 'person' apparently appearing behind the main person in the footage (i.e., 'he' was actually moving fairly quickly). By some experts in this possibly paranormal area, 'he' could be described as a 'vette' - according to the Norwegian folklore - a fairy/elf soldier from Wuotan's/Woden's/Odin's army, the 'Oskorei'; check out http://oskoreia.studby.uio.no/english/oskoreia.html. The vettes were known to carry away, or abduct, people. The cameraman didn't see this 'person' while shooting the footage. This fast moving 'person' looked to me like a Home or National Guard soldier, dressed up in a dark green field uniform. While passing 'he' seemed to turn his head against the camera. His face seemed somewhat fuzzy, but he didn't look like any of the 'greys', rather, the features looked more like those of a human. Of course, this video footage might be a hoax, but to me the footage - in some way - looked credible enough. Best Regards, AWS
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 John Ford - #1 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:38:29 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 03:55:02 -0500 Subject: John Ford - #1 From: UFO Magazine in the UK -- http://www.ufomag.co.uk/ THE JOHN FORD AFFAIR As you read this, New York UFO activist John Ford is languishing in jail awaiting trial for conspiracy. The circumstances of his arrest and past involvement with an alleged UFO crash-retrieval incident at Moriches Bay, Long Island, are profoundly disturbing. BACKGROUND John Ford founded the Long Island UFO Network in 1985. He investigated UFO sightings and alleged abductions; held public meetings and sponsored conferences; leafleted and organised demonstrations. He also produced the Long Island UFO Newsletter, which was regularly received and enjoyed by enthusiasts around the globe. It was in that newsletter that he first wrote of an extraordinary incident which alleged that a UFO had been shot down in 1989 by American military forces over Moriches Bay in Long Island. He later claimed to have uncovered details of a similar crash in 1992 in South Haven Park and when an unidentified object reportedly came to grief in the Pine Barrens region of Long Island three years later, he insisted that fires in the region had been deliberately lit to act as a diversion. Despite consistent denials by the authorities that there was anything untoward in any of these incidents, John persisted in his claims, insisting that his sources were real and their stories sincere. He spoke of having gleaned his information from officials within the New York City Police and Fire Departments; of members of the public who claimed to have seen a fireball descend into South Haven Park. John Ford simply wouldn't take no for an answer and became a genuine thorn in the side of the authorities. He repeated his allegations through public meetings and demonstrations held outside police headquarters. THE ARREST On 12 June 1996, John Ford was arrested in what Police later described as a classic 'sting' operation. This followed the use of telephone taps and a paid police informant who was 'wired' to monitor and record conversations. Almost a year earlier, Ford had confided to close friends and associates that he was convinced he was the victim of a deliberate plot to harass him. He went so far as to claim that the plot might entail his penultimate murder. Shortly after his arrest, Suffolk District Attorney James Catterson, told journalists gathered for the press briefing that Ford had been charged with conspiracy to murder and possession of radium without a license. The intended murder victim was alleged to be none other than John Powell, leader of the Suffolk County Republican Party. The means by which Ford intended to carry out the act? By placing radioactive radium in Powell's toothpaste... District Attorney Catterson held two press conferences and compared the significance of Ford's arrest to that of the infamous Unabomber. Other charges made at the time against Ford were subsequently dropped, but the conspiracy to murder charge was deemed serious enough for the Judge in the case to deem that Ford's bail would be set at half-a-million dollars. Needless to say, neither he nor his friends could raise such an amount and Ford remains incarcerated in jail awaiting trial. Surprisingly to some, he has issued no statement other than to plead "not guilty" when the charges were first put to him. Towards the end of last year, several concerned parties invoked greater public awareness of Ford's plight by placing supportive articles in prestigious UFO publications such as America's MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) Journal (November 1996 issue) and the Internet. They formed the aptly named John Ford Defence Committee and began a fund raising campaign to help with his legal defence. They also publicly appealed for an expert psychiatrist, professional audiotape analyst and Long Island-based private investigator to volunteer their efforts. Those on the Committee are convinced of Ford's innocence and cite numerous incidents and strange occurrences which led them to that conclusion. According to Committee Member Elaine Douglas, none of the media mentioned claims of harassment by Ford and other LIUFON members at the time of his arrest, nor she says, a higher than average rate of auto-accidents experienced by Ford and his colleagues. Members had their vehicles vandalised and one in particular, Joe Mazzuchelli, is said to have been dragged out of his vehicle the previous winter and physically beaten by four men who told him to "stay out of our business". Mazzuchelli was arrested with John Ford on 12 June. WHAT DID JOHN FORD UNCOVER? Ford, like many UFO researchers the world over, could only have dreamed of the possibility that he might one day stumble across a major UFO incident on his 'patch', at which he could assume the role of leading investigator. The 1989 Moriches Bay incident appeared to have afforded him such an opportunity. His investigation of that particular affair contained a suggestion that the technology used to bring down the purported alien spacecraft originated at Brookhaven National Laboratory, based on Long Island. Elaine Douglas avoids the re-telling of what Ford uncovered about the three incidents in her campaign literature, preferring instead to concentrate on the man, and what she perceives to be a case of injustice. She does include a curious coincidence about Moriches Bay, which may or may not offer food for thought. It was here that Ford alleged a UFO had been brought down in 1989, but it is also the spot where TWA Flight 800 mysteriously crashed in August last year. The cause of that disaster has thus far eluded Federal Law enforcement and aviation investigators, despite twenty eye-witness accounts from people who claim to have seen an unaccountable light streaking towards the 747 aircraft moments before it exploded. Ford's knowledge of the legal system, put to such good effect in his legitimate street demonstrations, stemmed from a career as a court official working at the Suffolk County Court. Those who knew him are adamant he was not capable of conspiring to murder anyone - it simply wasn't in his character. "You can't believe how many people have called me to say they can't envision John Ford killing anyone, or even conceiving the intention," said his attorney John Rouse. He scoffs at the suggestion that Ford could covertly enter the Powell household of four people, select the particular toothpaste used by the man of the house and implant radium in order to kill him. Elaine Douglas points out that in the 1920's, radium-dial painters used to lick their brushes out of habit and it took 40 years before anyone contracted cancer. She asked: "Was Ford going to break in and put radium in Powell's toothpaste every week for 40 years until he got cancer?" The prosecution's arguments are further strained she argues by their contention that the illegal radium was kept hidden by Ford in the back of his pick-up truck, which was always parked at the front of his house. District Attorney Catterson labelled Ford a "mastermind" at the press briefings, at which he raised further serious charges where no indictments were subsequently returned. "This," said John Rouse, "is called poisoning the jury pool." The police arrested Ford immediately following a conversation that took place between their informant, Ford and Mazzuchelli. The informant was 'wired' and, it's claimed, recorded a discussion in which Ford and Mazzuchelli both spoke about doing away with Powell and another local politician through the use of radium in toothpaste. A copy of the tape was eventually handed over to Ford's attorney and according to LIUFON's Preston Nichols "is unintelligible". Nichols said, "All I can clearly hear on that tape is the informant talking and John laughing, like whatever they're talking about is a big joke." Attorney Rouse is hoping to get the tape enhanced, but admits the plight of both men is serious. If found guilty, either could be jailed for between 25 and 75 years in an upstate New York prison. Elaine Douglas has had run-ins with the Suffolk County Police before. In April 1993 she wrote to them complaining of police violation of LIUFON member's civil rights. Apparently they had been prevented from leafleting near South Haven Park by the police who told them they must leave the area. The house to house leafleting had been organised to seek out potential witnesses in what was described by Douglas as a "witness-constitutionally protected activity". The John Ford Defence Committee's support for Ford "..is based on our conviction that he did not, would not, and could not conspire to murder anyone," said Elaine Douglas. "On this point our support is complete and total," she added. What though of Ford's claims that a low intense military conflict exists between the United States and aliens? Is that possible? "Yes, it is," according to Douglas. "I speak only for myself and not for other members of the Defence Committee," she said. "I always found John's allegations hard to believe but impossible to dismiss because he had evidence what he claimed was perfectly possible. "Just because John's allegations 'fit' doesn't make them true, but the fact is John had evidence. He claimed three events on Long Island - even if he was wrong on two of them, if he was right on only one, John had a tiger by the tail. If so, it's no surprise somebody would try to destroy John Ford." "He is the first UFO investigator to be seriously persecuted by the authorities. Shall we sit idly by while our colleague's life is destroyed? If John Ford is silenced, who is next?" AN INDEPENDENT VIEWPOINT We invited New York resident Alan Raven to offer his opinions about the affair and he wrote the following: I did attend a one-day presentation in the summer of 1994 given by the Long Island group about the 1992 (South Haven Park) incident. As I expected, it was overly long at nine hours and was ragged, rambling and generally unprofessional. However, the group had done a tremendous amount of work, beginning on the evening of the incident. At the time of the presentation the investigation was still on-going, and involved mapping, interviews, collection of what might have been bits of wreckage, on-ground searches, surveys, and even a couple of aerial searches. The group claimed there was a collision of sorts at 90,000ft. At least two vehicles came to earth and wreckage was spread over a wide area. One object crashed near the South Shore in South Haven Park (which in reality is a pine forest) after passing low over a main highway (Sunrise Highway) and was seen close-up by several motorists. The object (described as a rod) passed out of sight. Shortly afterwards there was an explosion followed immediately by a large fire that lit up the night sky. A second object came to earth in the grounds of Brookhaven National Laboratory, a few miles to the north of the South Haven Park site. After being grounded for several hours the object exploded as it tried to take off. The Long Island group obtained videotape from a source which they refused to name. The first video was taken at the South Haven Park by (they claimed) a fireman who was one of the first on the scene. These firemen arrived before government forces came and the video was of course confiscated. The group's copy came (they say) from a government source. The video, which is of very poor quality and taken at night, shows figures being moved and laid out. It also purports to show (in part close-up) an insectoid figure. The second video clip, from the same source, shows an explosion of some sort that appears to be associated with a building, or object, or craft. The group claimed it was a disc or lifeboat type of craft that came down in the grounds of Brookhaven. I have seen both video clips several times. They were interesting but unfortunately not definitive, even after enhancement. After sitting through the presentation I came away having no doubt that something very important did happen that night, and that the government came down with an iron-fist within one hour of the event. There was in addition, a great deal of trace evidence spread over large areas. CONSPIRACY? WHAT CONSPIRACY? All those closest to John Ford have demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that his track record as a UFO 'activist' is probably second to none. 'He investigated UFO sightings and alleged abductions; held public meetings and sponsored conferences; leafleted and organised demonstrations. He also produced the Long Island UFO Newsletter, which was regularly received and enjoyed by enthusiasts around the globe.' Some find it rather odd therefore, that a man who argued so vociferously to make his point, who proclaimed he was being harassed by the authorities, should now utter nothing more than two words following his arrest. Other than "not guilty" he has issued no statement which could have been used by the Defence Committee to bolster their campaign. Of course Ford might well be acting on instructions issued by his defence attorney to 'say nothing until the trial' - a perfectly reasonable and common practise. Elaine Douglas raises claims of harassment, beatings, burglaries, auto accidents and vandalism, but where is the corroboration? Were reports filed to the police in all these instances? How much radium did the police find? High quantities might just take slightly less than 40 years to have lethal effects. Were the police acting unconstitutionally in preventing leafleting campaigns? Some say not - especially if a neighbourhood had signs that prohibited such activity. If a resident complained to the police they would be duty bound to act. Until the trial takes place, one can only speculate as to what might emerge in terms of evidence presented by both defence and prosecution attorneys which will hopefully answer these and many other questions. If allegations of a conspiracy to discredit John Ford have any foundation at all, it must mean that what he and other colleagues stumbled across as UFO researchers was of such tremendous significance that the authorities had to shut them up. So what exactly did happen? The Unopened Files re-traced the events as reported by Ford and his colleagues several years ago. Few listened to him at the time, but now you have an opportunity to make a balanced judgement for yourselves... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lehmberg@snowhill.com Restore John Ford! -- Explore the Alien View! Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ <Updated 12 September> John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at: 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. "Only thin, _very light_ envelopes with a return address will be accepted <g>." ~~~ $225.00 pledged -- $100.00 collected ~~~ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 John Ford - #2 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:52:58 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 03:55:31 -0500 Subject: John Ford - #2 From UFO Magazine in the UK -- http://www.ufomag.co.uk/ THE MORICHES BAY CRASH RETRIEVAL CASE The Long Island UFO Network has publicly stated since October 1995, that a major UFO incident occurred over Moriches Bay off the South Shore of Long Island. At the time, this body of water and its adjoining communities were experiencing the highest volume of UFO activity reported in Suffolk County. Its founder, John Ford, maintains that the United States Government, through the actions of its armed forces and intelligence community, intercepted and retrieved an alien spacecraft from Moriches Bay on 28 September 1989. He also claimed the action was a carefully planned and executed operation meticulously formulated some six months in advance. The purpose of this action was to bring down an alien spacecraft, described as a triangular wedge-shaped craft measuring some 574ft across at its widest point. This was to enable the United States to retrieve its technology and propulsion drive system. A STEP BACK IN TIME Beginning in 1982, the counties of Orange, Putnam, Rockland, Duchess and Westchester in this up-state region were inundated with some 5,000 reports of large boomerang-shaped flying objects. Some of the early 1983 reports recorded low altitude observations made both at night and by day. One object 'buzzed' hundreds of witnesses over major parks and highways. Descriptions of these objects varied from a large boomerang-shape illuminated by intense lights, to a large object which displayed a circle pattern of lights on its underside followed by a single point of light on its outermost extension. On 24 July 1984, a man and his wife videotaped a large object outside their home in New York which showed a circular light formation from an unknown object. Subsequent analysis of the footage revealed a dark mass behind the formation. On 14 June 1986, a cross-shaped UFO was videotaped by a New York resident and declared genuine by the Long Island group. On reading reports of the UFO 'wave' in the popular press and the book Night Siege, co-authored by Dr. J. Allen Hynek, John Ford decided to launch the Long Island UFO Network with his friend and associate Richard Stout. Both men were familiar with the UFO situation at that time and spent a year trying to discover the cause of mysterious sky-flashes and sky-quakes effecting the up-state region. In October 1987, Stout, in his capacity as a Road Site Inspector for the town of Brookhaven, came across the mutilated remains of a young heifer on Long Island. The precise, almost surgical wounds matched those of other animals whose deaths had been widely reported elsewhere in the United States, predominantly by TV journalist Linda Moulton Howe, who has done more than anyone to bring the strange 'animal mutilation' enigma to the forefront of public and media attention. Confirmation that this was of the same ilk came from an investigator of the Suffolk County District Attorney's office who stopped to question Stout at the scene and ask why he should be there. The man confirmed that his office were looking into the matter. Through late January and early February of 1988, Suffolk's South Shore witnessed strange mutilations of dogs, cat, sheep, deer, goats and cows. Reports flooded in of mutilated animals that had been drained of blood. John Ford discovered that the Federal Government, with the assistance of government scientists, the FBI and local police officers, were acting as one with the District Attorney's office in determining the likely cause of the mutilations. Shortly after, the 42nd Aviation Battalion, New York State National Guard, began holding night exercises in areas where mutilations and UFO activity had been reported. In the summer of 1982, a well-known psychiatrist and his wife were followed in their car by a luminous oval-shaped object. On 26 December 1982, a woman reported observing a large object over her house. It was so big she couldn't see the end of it. She claimed to have seen metal plates and rivets. Around that time, Stout and family member observed a large oval-shaped object over Moriches Bay illuminated by three amber lights. He alleged it was chased into a cloud by an USAF C-130 aircraft. Throughout 1983-84, numerous UFO reports were made of an object seen near Shoreham Nuclear Power Station. On 13 August 1995, a large circular object 'buzzed' Port Washington displaying multi-faceted light patterns. The "domed saucer" was estimated to be some 2,000ft in diameter and caused a minor panic as it floated away over Main Street and out over the bay. Some of the incidents led to electric generating system disturbances. In September 1986, a dark object hovered over a pick-up truck, completely immobilizing the vehicles electrics. Homes in central Moriches experienced total power failures. On 27 December 1987, a large oval-shaped object with six amber lights zig-zagged down a main highway. Motorists were able to keep pace with the object because of its slow speed and low altitude. On 13 September 1987, a 36ft diameter oval-shaped object was seen to land adjacent to a farmhouse by the owners son. Then, on 24 January 1989, LIUFON researchers received reports of further landings. A team spent some time at a farm where circular trace marks had been left in the ground. In the inner part of the circle, grass chlorophyll had been destroyed and tests offered no natural explanation as to the cause. Chemicals were also ruled out. Soil in the immediate vicinity revealed very low levels of nutrients and once again no explanation was forthcoming after tests. The investigating team suspected that members of the farming family might have experienced some form of abduction experience - if that were true, the 'visitors' would be back. The team positioned photo-electric cells around the family's living quarters. Sometime later a 32ft diameter oval-shaped object attempted to land in the grounds of the farm. Somehow this triggered the alarms and awoke the family who saw the craft. This incident was independently witnessed by a person across the road from the farmers property. During 1988, John Ford and his colleagues responded to countless reports from worried parents whose children kept seeing 'monsters' in their bedroom late at night. Tests in some of the homes revealed unusual levels of low intensity radiation and magnetic anomalies. When questioned, children described and drew some of the 'monsters' - in every case they were grey-skinned creatures with big, black eyes. As abduction reports increased beyond the average, so too did sightings of military helicopter activity in Long Island itself. "THIS WILL BLOW YOUR MINDS" That's how John Ford prepared his colleagues before relating what took place at a meeting he claimed to have had with a scientist from Brookhaven Laboratory during the height of the UFO 'wave'. According to Ford, the scientist confided that he and his colleagues at Brookhaven were aware that 'we' (the Earth) were being watched from the sky. "But," said the scientists, "the US Government was watching 'them'." The man claimed to Ford that the United States had the ability through its array of orbiting satellites to 'read' the propulsion system of these unknown craft and track them. LEAD-UP TO THE EVENT On Sunday, 24 September 1989, Bruce and Martha Richardson were in their privately owned cabin cruiser moored in the Moriches Bay Yacht Centre when they saw a flight of dark green 'Huey' US Army helicopters approach from the east. As they roared over the bay they formed a single line formation and then began to fly in a counter-clockwise flight rotation around the bay and over the dune area of Smiths Point Beach. This lasted for approximately one hour before the helicopters left the area in a westerly heading. The local Government of Suffolk County, New York, through the office of the County Executive, announced in late August 1989 that the Smiths Point Beach County Camp grounds would be closed early. They explained their reasons for the closure, the first of its kind in 18 years, was due to purely financial considerations in what had been a crisis Budgetary year for the County. Campers and surfers who would normally have kept the beaches open until late October in what was a cheap Autumn break, were not amused. Their anger was reflected in local newspapers throughout Suffolk County - to no avail. There would be no campers or surfers present on the night of 28 September 1989 to witness events unfold in Moriches Bay. THE WEST HAMPTON AIR NATIONAL GUARD FACILITY That year, NASA was set to resume launches of the Space Shuttle in the wake of the ill-fated Challenger disaster. All of the United States news media had reported on the unique training undertaken at West Hampton by the New York National Guard Air/Sea Rescue Unit based at West Hampton. A major contract had been awarded by NASA to this unit to perform the function of rescuing Shuttle astronauts in the event their craft went down off the East Coast (Moriches Bay) area. It was major news for Long Island residents and television pictures of the unit training at sea were screened across the country. Richard Stout, co-founder of the Long Island UFO Network, lived in Centre Moriches, some twelve blocks from the bay. When the organisation was formed, members invested in several thousand dollars of research tools. They acquired low-light photographic and video equipment, along with telephoto lenses. Early that September, his home was burglarized and all the equipment was stolen. The thief has never been caught. A NIGHT TO REMEMBER On the evening of 28 September 1989, residents within a twelve block radius of Moriches Bay reported that cable TV and electricity supplies were periodically failing. No satisfactory explanation has ever been provided to explain the power loss. Some residents then saw strange lights over the bay which at first they took to be parachute flares dropped by the military on some sort of exercise. Only when the flares continued to hover and refused to descend into the waters below did they realise they belonged to something else. Kings Park - Long Island - 5.30pm Mrs. McLaughlin was a young housewife with two young boys and with her husband lived in the Kings Park area of Suffolk County. That afternoon the boys had returned from school and were watching TV in the den. Mrs. McLaughlin was preparing dinner and cleaning up around the house when she suddenly heard the boys call out and ask her to come to the back window. Seemingly, one of the youngsters had seen two large objects hovering in the sky outside and had called his brother to come and look. They watched the objects for some time before shouting for their mother to join them. Mrs. McLaughlin joined her sons at the window and was amazed by the sight of two large objects that appeared to just hang motionless in the sky. She later told LIUFON investigators that she remained baffled by what she saw. The objects were approximately one-and-a-half miles away, very large and triangular in shape. She couldn't see any engines, wings, lights or windows, but their surface appeared jet black and smooth. Interestingly, she said that during the observation, one of the objects had moved closer to the other craft, but achieved this at "staggering" speed - in no more than a second. Interstate Highway - Long Island - 7.10pm At exactly 7.10pm a young aerospace engineer in Long Island reported seeing a half-circle of very bright amber lights some distance away. Watching through binoculars, he was convinced he saw a large structure connected to the lights. After watching it hover for several minutes, it later moved off slowly in a northerly direction. Shortly after and some thirty miles to the north, motorists driving on the Interstate Highway watched a "large dark mass with six to eight very bright amber lights" moving overhead. Witnesses said later that the object made no sound and was larger than a football field. Calverton - Long Island - 8.00pm Mrs. 'P.G.' and her fifteen-year-old son were driving home on the Long Island Expressway after visiting friends in the Calverton area. This adjoins farmland and woods that stretch out among the urban sprawl. As they travelled east both noticed six very bright amber lights, much bigger than car headlights, close to a nearby field but suspended in the sky. As the road took them closer she saw the lights belonged to a very large triangular-shaped craft that was silhouetted against the night sky. She said the craft was as big as two football fields but assumed it was some sort of experimental aircraft from the nearby Calverton test facility. Hartford International Airport - 8.10pm UFO reports then began to emanate from the Hartford area and at 8.10pm, workers at Hartford International Airport observed a large boomerang-shaped object hovering above an unused tarmac area of the airfield. As they watched in disbelief, they saw a blue beam of light come from the object and strike the ground beneath where it maintained its position and brilliance. All were then stunned to see "five creatures" glide down the beam to the ground. Reportedly, some of the airport workers chased the creatures but the beam lifted them back to safety. One of the eye-witnesses later spoke with Phil Imbrogno of LIUFON about the incident, but only on the strict understanding that his identity would remain totally confidential. He said that he and the rest of those workers who had seen everything had been warned by officials from the Federal Aviation Authority to keep totally silent. The man said that the object was "boomerang-shaped", larger than a football field and had six amber lights. Moriches Bay - 8.45pm Paul Peterson was watching television when he suddenly noticed some strange amber lights through his French windows overlooking Moriches Bay. They gradually appeared in sequence, from one to six, and were unnaturally brilliant as they illuminated the night sky. He then heard a loud noise above his home so went outdoors to see a number of large, dark green Sikorsky helicopters in formation flying low over some trees in an arc before heading out over the bay in the direction of the lights. Paul was quickly joined by his wife to watch the spectacle. They estimated each of the six amber lights to be approximately 60 - 80ft across. After a couple of minutes, Paul dashed indoors to grab his camcorder to record the event. However, because of the brilliance of the lights he had difficulty in focusing, but needed to be sure he was recording something. He rushed back inside once again and routed the camcorder through his VCR to 'play-back' mode. He was stunned when the TV flickered into life and the strange amber lights were totally absent from the screen - the only thing that had been recorded was the sound of helicopters. Not to be outdone, Paul dug out his instamatic camera and a spare roll of film and with his son, drove to the dock side a short distance away. His wife was too nervous to accompany them. When they reached the dock side, father and son saw a pair of amber lights hovering 50 - 100ft above the water some 300 yards away from the shore. Before long, the lights became six in number, their brilliance illuminating the whole bay. A searchlight from a Suffolk County Police helicopter then appeared and it was quickly joined by the Sikorsky's. Then the stunned witnesses saw an intense bluish/white light that lit up the beach and sand dunes near the Moriches Inlet. The circling helicopters moved towards this area and seemed to paying particular attention to what appeared to be some kind of structure behind the light source. At one stage, this light became so intense that Paul and his son had to look away. Throughout this period of time, Moriches Bay was rocked by a strange and powerful wind. >From 11.15pm everything suddenly went quiet and the lights disappeared. Ten minutes later though the lights and helicopters reappeared over the bay. They remained visible until midnight, when everything went quiet again. Unknown to Paul, another family nearby had watched the event in its entirety, but with one important difference. Because of their vantage point, they had made out two huge triangular-shaped objects hovering over the bay. They said each was the size of an airliner, but performed aerial manoeuvres beyond the capability of any aircraft known to them. Paul is a former Vietnam Airborne Ranger with combat experience. He told investigators that the lights were not flares and remains convinced that he and his son were witnesses to a UFO incident. Drug Enforcement Administration Nassau / Suffolk County Line - 9.00pm The West Hampton Air Guard facility alerted the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) they had a large unidentified aircraft on their scope over Moriches Bay. Fearing the unregistered flight pointed to a drug smuggling operation, they requested a special DEA intercept team of agents be dispatched from Manhattan to investigate. A helicopter took off carrying a heavily armed team of agents with instructions that once located, the suspicious aircraft should be ordered to land at Brookhaven Airport for inspection. As the helicopter approached the Nassau / Suffolk County border, the pilot was informed that the DEA's authority to operate over Moriches Bay had been suspended due to an on-going USAF operation in the area. In fact, all airspace over Moriches Bay was closed to civilian air traffic. The helicopter pilot, possibly urged on by his hastily assembled passengers, sought further clarification. However, he was told that if he attempted to enter the area, they would be prevented from doing so. The pilot had no alternative but to turn around and head back to Manhattan. * This information came from two very confidential sources. Disclosure of their identities would, according to John Ford, do their future career prospects no good at all. One source overheard a conversation and the other was involved in logging flight plans with the Federal Aviation Authority. Kathy O'Donnelly works as a secretary for a real estate and insurance office and on 28 September had been working late until 9.00pm. Thirty minutes into her southerly drive home on the Sunrise Highway, she saw six to eight very bright amber-coloured lights above and behind her car. She continued to watch the light as they gradually appeared to descend in altitude to almost tree-top height. They appeared to be keeping pace with her vehicle but were so bright they illuminated its interior. Frightened and confused, she accelerated and eventually came to the turn-off which took her closer to home. Kathy arrived in her drive and before drawing to a stop sounded her car horn repeatedly. Her husband and a friend, hurried outside to see what the commotion was about. All three were soon staring at the sky across the street beyond a nearby potato farm - there were the strange amber lights which had described moments before. Only a minute had passed before the lights disappeared in the distance, heading out toward Moriches Bay. Frank 'D' - Moriches Bay - Midnight Frank 'D' lives near the shoreline of Moriches Bay. He is a New York State officer employed by the Nassau County District Court. He claimed that around midnight, he had driven to the shoreline to numerous parachute flares he had observed being dropped by helicopters and C-130 aircraft. In subsequent statements released by the USAF and Coastguard, no reference is made to the dropping of flares. Anonymous Witness - Moriches Bay 12.30am - 29 September A person who wished to remain anonymous told LIUFON investigators that he had a heard a loud splash over Moriches Bay at approximately 12.30am while out walking near the shore. At 12.45 am he saw helicopters hovering in the middle of the bay. They appeared to be interested in something which was in the water. John "D' - Quoque 2.30am - 29 September John 'D' is a commodities broker on Wall Street. He too sought confidentiality before revealing anything with LIUFON investigators. Although he resides in Bay Bridge, Brooklyn, every weekend, during spring to late Autumn, he spent time with his sister and her family who live in Quoque. Their home is less than a quarter-of-a-mile from south of the main runway at West Hampton Air Guard facility. At approximately 2.30am, the noise of helicopter engines forced him from his bed to stare out of the second floor bedroom window. At tree-top level, two large military helicopters were headed for the runway. Cables were slung underneath, but the trees obscured his view of precisely what they were carrying. In the distance he saw the helicopters hover over the runway while men below saw their cargo safely lowered to the ground. The whole operation took some 45 minutes. George Dickson's Story 4 October George Dickson is an amateur anthropologist and independent UFO investigator in his own right. On 4 October 1989, George contacted John Ford and the LIUFON to inform them that he had been given information about a UFO incident which had taken place over Moriches Bay just a few days before. George said the information came from an "impeccable" source - an Air Force Colonel attached to Air Force Intelligence at the Pentagon. It was the Colonel who confided in George that a UFO had been intercepted and brought down on 28 September over Moriches Bay by a 'Star Wars' weapon. George was told that the UFO had crashed into sand dunes where it was subsequently retrieved. The Colonel also claimed to have told him that eighteen US personnel had been killed during the operation when those on board the craft retaliated. The means by which they retaliated? George said the Colonel spoke of some form of low-frequency sound wave which destroys the molecular cohesiveness of known matter. He also revealed that some of the fatalities included people who had proven psychic abilities to communicate with the occupants and any survivors, if required. George refused to reveal the name of his source and has stuck by this, and the story, to this day. Meeting with the Scientist April / August - 1990 John Ford was approached by a man who claimed to be a friend and close confidant of a scientist who was involved in the Moriches Bay incident. He was told that the scientist was prepared to discuss the matter with him, but only on his terms and only when things had "cooled down". Ford and his colleagues agreed that this would be the basis for any interviews and a continuation of dialogue. Late one Sunday evening in April 1990, Ford finally met with the scientist alone, known only as Dr. 'Nick'. A second meeting took place in August of that year. The man insisted that none of the interviews be tape recorded and his true identity never revealed under any circumstances. Ford was allowed to make written notes however, a task later undertaken in August by Kay Ford, secretary and treasurer to the LIUFON organisation, who was permitted to sit on the second interview. At both meetings, Dr. 'Nick' stated that the United States had intercepted and brought down a wedged or boomerang-shaped UFO over Moriches Bay on the night of 28 September 1989. His 'revelations' are listed thus: =A5 He was present along with other members of his engineering team at the incident itself. The crash occurred around midnight or a little afterwards. =A5 He had been involved in the study of crashed UFOs on behalf of the US Government since the 1970's. =A5 He was first employed to study the electrics of recovered UFOs at S-3, an underground facility housed at Wright Patterson AFB in Dayton, Ohio. It was here, he alleged, that retrieved UFOs are stored. =A5 His study of one such craft had convinced him 'their' technology was far in advance of anything known on Earth. =A5 That technology was crystalline-based, from which came focusing elements used in 'their' propulsion drive mechanism. The crystals helped 'tune' frequencies which enabled the anti-gravity drive system to work. Those crystals performed a similar function to our micro-chips. =A5 Aliens were visiting our planet to discover all that they could about our electronics and how we use and apply the electron in everyday use. Their goal appeared to be to learn how to 'fuse' both technologies into one. =A5 The weapon used to bring down the craft was developed and built at A.I.L. Electronics on Long Island with funds allocated by the S.D.I. (Strategic Defence Initiative). =A5 He and his engineering colleagues developed circuits used in the Doppler Radar System while he was personally responsible for constructing the transmitter. According to John Ford, Dr. 'Nick' took great pride in talking about the transmitter. He told Ford it was "..his baby that did the job". =A5 The Doppler Radar System had been used because it could bend at 90 degrees in order to penetrate the craft's plasma field which surrounded its frame. =A5 A weapons test had been conducted five weeks before the Moriches Bay incident at Fort Meade, Maryland. A previously recovered craft some 60ft across had been suspended in a secure hangar. The test proved successful as the craft fell in an instant onto huge inflatable cushions laid on the ground below to absorb its impact. =A5 The craft brought down in Moriches Bay had been tracked for months because of its repeated sorties over the Long Island area. =A5 This was only part of a confrontation which had been on-going for the past five years after a fall-out between the US Government and the aliens when an existing treaty had been terminated. Hostilities had not begun in earnest, but this was now an 'adversary condition'. =A5 He did not know what had happened to the wreckage or how it was removed from the scene. He did not know of any fatalities, but when told there had been a report that eighteen people had been killed, he thought the figure remarkably low in the circumstances. =A5 A number of alien bodies had been recovered and sent to Brookhaven Laboratories. He was certain of this because a number of his colleagues had seen them. He said, "This was a grey's ship, it is they who are our adversaries". A CREDIBLE ACCOUNT OR CERTIFIED NONSENSE? What credence one can attach to these fairly elaborate claims imparted by Dr. 'Nick' is totally dependent on the reliability factor afforded him by John and Kay Ford. They, and only they, claim to have met the man. Presumably, they made their own checks to discover that he really is who he say's he is, and worked where he said he worked. Unfortunately, that crucial element, which dictates the integrity of their reported dealings with this gentleman, is markedly absent. However, Dr. 'Nick' did reveal the location where he and his team had parked and operated the weapons system on the night of 28 September. Unknown to him, when LIUFON members had visited the Moriches Bay area for on-site investigation, they came across a depressed circle of vegetation measuring some 75ft in diameter. They had never disclosed this 'find' to the public. The location revealed by Dr. 'Nick' and the site discovered by the LIUFON team were one and the same. Either it was an extraordinary coincidence, or Dr. 'Nick' did indeed have first-hand knowledge of the incident. DESCRIBING 'THE EVENT' Dr. 'Nick' claimed that on the night of 28 September 1989, he and two other members of his engineering team had been whisked away from his office by two military officers. They had previously been instructed to make themselves available for a possible demonstration test of their device and have a transmitter ready for use. They were driven off in two civilian jeeps to Smith's Point Bridge. They carried on east over the bridge and along an access road to the dune preserve. The time by then was approximately 11.00pm. As they passed a field used for parking vehicles, he noticed several large flat-bed transport trucks. Passing through the gate to the dune preserve, he was driven to the Camp Ground area. Here, he saw two camouflaged military trucks. One housed communications and the other was a mobile radar tracking vehicle. A senior military official met the group and instructed them to go immediately to the Doppler Radar site, located on a peninsula that jutted out into Moriches Bay. The antenna was recessed into a sand dune to aid concealment and two large Ford vans packed with equipment were alongside. A 400Hz generator was also present. As they made their way to the weapon, the group saw helicopters flying around the bay - circling a formation of bright amber lights. With the transmitter set-up and all systems connected, power to the device was switched on between 11.30 - 11.45pm. The antenna began to glow a bright blue colour. The team were then instructed to wait until the object came into view. Between midnight and 12.15am, a series of searchlights picked out the craft and its helicopter escort as it made its way along the shoreline. Dr. 'Nick' and his colleagues suddenly saw the object illuminated still further when a series of white lights seemed to appear from its main body. Now brilliantly silhouetted against the night sky some several hundred yards away and low over the bay, an order was given to "bring it down". Switches were thrown and the object fell instantly into the water, breaking in two on impact. This action produced a tremendous roar and slight swell. Immediately, military officers close by ordered Dr. 'Nick' and his team to "get the hell out there". They were ushered into jeeps and driven back over the bridge. Dr. 'Nick' took a nervous glance back over the bay and saw that the object had sunk. Helicopters and searchlights hovered above the spot. A few days later, some of his associates who had been tasked with examining the wreckage, told him that alien bodies, an anti-matter reactor and advanced electronic equipment had been removed. He was also told that the metal composition of the craft was super strong and incredibly light. WHISPERS AND RUMOURS Research groups and investigators often receive numerous calls and correspondence from anonymous sources who claim to have intimate knowledge about a particular UFO incident or experience. The anonymous source can sometimes shed practical light on an event that has significant bearing, but by and large, 'revelations' from people who refuse to disclose their identities to researchers have to be treated with a pinch of salt. A man claiming to be a retired Air Force officer residing in West Hampton, made two telephone calls to Kay Ford. He said he had served in the Air Guard at West Hampton until his retirement in 1986. He didn't want to reveal his name or precise whereabouts because it might mean jeopardizing his pension. The man told Kay he had been reading up on the Moriches Bay incident and that she might be interested to listen to what he had to say. He claimed that in late 1983 or early 1984, another object was recovered by the USAF off Long Island, and that he had actually seen with his own eyes a 20ft long and 20ft wide boomerang-shaped object brought in by helicopter to West Hampton. The object weighed in excess of 10,000 pounds and when exposed to sunlight, exhibited a fluorescent orange glow. He told Kay that the object was kept under tight security by armed guards for at least a day in an aircraft scramble shelter. No one was allowed to go near or examine the object, but the next day a C-147 arrived at the base and took off with the mystery object for Wright Patterson Air Force Base. Does any of this, and the reported revelations from the anonymous Dr. 'Nick' have any useful and meaningful substance? Such revelations do not constitute evidence, but they should not be entirely dismissed out of hand, and for one good reason - something quite unusual, some might say extraordinary, did occur over Moriches Bay on 28 September 1989. Quite what that 'something' was remains a puzzle. No definitive explanation which could account for the only credible aspect of this affair - the witness testimony of dozens of people, who clearly saw something strange in the skies above their homes that night - has ever been afforded by the authorities. Why? What though of John Ford? Will he reveal the identity of Dr. 'Nick' at his subsequent trial and force the issue of harassment? Will the incident at Moriches Bay be mentioned at all? We shall have to wait and see whether those members on the John Ford Defence Committee are ultimately proved correct in presuming that neither Ford nor Mazzuchelli were capable of conspiracy to murder. It will also be interesting to see how much attention is focused on the trial by America's media 'circus'. Will its famed 'Court TV' series offer a 'fly-on- the-wall' opportunity for millions to follow proceedings, or will armchair viewers have to settle for their usual diet of celebrity and criminal trials? One thing is for certain, not even Agatha Christie could have dreamed up a crime mystery where the murder weapon turned out to be radium in the toothpaste... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` Lehmberg@snowhill.com Restore John Ford -- Explore the Alien View! Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ <Updated 12 September> John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at: 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. "Only thin, _very light_ envelopes with a return address will be accepted <g>." ~~~ $225.00 pledged -- $100.00 collected ~~~ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 47 From: Patrick V. Reavis <preavis@ro.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:40:45 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 04:00:53 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 47 >Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:49:03 +0000 >To: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> >From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 47 >From: Masinaigan@aol.com >UFO ROUNDUP >Volume 3, Number 47 >November 24, 1998 >Editor: Joseph Trainor >WHITEHALL PLANS TROOP MOBILIZATION IN Y2K CRISIS >Whitehall plans to call up thousands of UK Territorial Army >reserves to deal with civil unrest sparked by the Year 2000 >Computer Crisis, the British newspaper Sunday Mirror reported >last week. >The United Kingdom is now the second NATO member to announce >deployment of troops during December 1999 as part of Operation >Abacus. Two weeks ago, the Globe and Mail of Toronto announced >that Canada would call up 60,000 troops to deal with the crisis. >If Whitehall goes through with the plan, it will be the biggest >deployment of Territorial Army troops since the start of World >War II in September 1939. >According to the Sunday Mirror, "Officers from British Army >reserves have been put on alert to deal with the chaos of New >Year's Eve 1999." >"They have been asked to cope with possible civil unrest and >communications disasters as the year 2000 begins. Whitehall >fears the huge celebrations, plus integral computer failures due >to the 'Millenium Bug' all have the capacity to bring about a >'Doomsday' scenario." >"In a secret letter seen by the Sunday Mirror, the Army officer >reservists are asked about their availability between December >22, 1999 and January 9, 2000." >"The letter was posted from the Army Reservist Communications >Centre at the Ministry of Defence (MoD) headquarters in >Whitehall. It says problems on a national scale are expected, >and it provides the first clear indication that troops will be >on standby to cope with the expected Millenium Bug chaos." >"The letter makes special reference to new reservist legislation >with sections on civil unrest, defense of the nation, resources >and national security." >"An MoD spokesman would not confirm that the letter had been >sent. 'Clearly the Army stands by for any form of assistance >that civil authorities feel they need over the Millenium." >Major UK metropolitan areas that may be affected by deployment >could include London, Liverpool, Bristol, Manchester, >Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Southampton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, >plus Edinburgh and Glasgow in Scotland and Cardiff in Wales. >(See the Sunday Mirror for November 15, 1998, "Army calls in >reserves for Millenium chaos," by Tim Luckett. Many thanks to >John Hayes for forwarding this newspaper article.) This is very interesting. Would anyone have a link to the original article for confirmation? I'm researching the Y2K topic for a college course, and any help would be greatly appreciated! -- Regards, Patrick V. Reavis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 98 10:51:08 PST Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 04:05:47 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:36:16 -0500 >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:31:50 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> >>Subject: Re: UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>From: Perry van den Brink <UASR@gmx.net> >>>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:24:17 +0100 >>>Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:45:54 -0500 >>>Subject: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>Dear UASR list members and all, >>>As some of you may already know, last week we at UASR decided to >>>discontinue our feed from Peter Gersten's CAUS (Campaign Against >>>UFO Secrecy). This may have come as something of a surprise to >>>some, and we felt we should explain the action. >><snip> >>>Please understand that we have not taken this action lightly, >>>and that we have had immense respect for CAUS in the past, and I >>>am sure we will do once again in the future, but for the time >>>being we did not want to crowd our list with what we felt was >>>information that was not pertinent to _our_ charter: Scientific >>>investigation of UFOs, Aliens and Space Research. >Gentlemen, >I was saddened but not at all surprised by UASR's censorship of >postings from Peter Gersten and CAUS. This is because this is >the second instance of censorship by UASR that I personally know >of on similarly specious grounds. As somebody who's worked as an editor more or less all of his adult life, let me insert a calm word into a debate that already showns disturbing signs of heading into pointless polemic. Without judging the factual or rational content of Gersten-era CAUS postings (a subject for others to discuss to chew over elsewhere), I think the word "censorship" as applied here is inappropriate, at the least. Gersten's CAUS has a Constitutional right to express itself, of course, but it's a whole different thing to claim it has the right to appear in any particular forum in which it wants to appear. UASR is simply exercising editorial judgment, to which it is well entitled and which no sober observer should confuse with censorship. Otherwise, every list master or magazine/book editor would be judged a censor for refusing to distribute or publish anything that comes his or her way, and we'd all be the worse off for it. UASR is within its rights, even if its decision makes the writer (in this case Gersten) unhappy. So what? Editors have been making writers unhappy forever (I've been both, so believe me, I speak with some authority here). That's just the way it is. I hope we can drop this subject and get on to more worthwhile and interesting matters. Cordially, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:17:45 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 04:12:05 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: 25 November 1998 11:02 >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:36:16 -0500 >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:31:50 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> >>Subject: Re: UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>From: Perry van den Brink <UASR@gmx.net> >>>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:24:17 +0100 >>>Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:45:54 -0500 >>>Subject: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>Dear UASR list members and all, >>>As some of you may already know, last week we at UASR decided to >>>discontinue our feed from Peter Gersten's CAUS (Campaign Against >>>UFO Secrecy). This may have come as something of a surprise to >>>some, and we felt we should explain the action. >><snip> >>>Please understand that we have not taken this action lightly, >>>and that we have had immense respect for CAUS in the past, and I >>>am sure we will do once again in the future, but for the time >>>being we did not want to crowd our list with what we felt was >>>information that was not pertinent to _our_ charter: Scientific >>>investigation of UFOs, Aliens and Space Research. >>>Thank you >>>Dave Pigott & Lieve Peten >>>Moderators, UASR. >>>& >>>Perry van den Brink, >>>owner UASR. >Gentlemen, >I was saddened but not at all surprised by UASR's censorship of >postings from Peter Gersten and CAUS. This is because this is >the second instance of censorship by UASR that I personally know >of on similarly specious grounds. >So I am not surprised but I am shocked at the justifications for >censorship that are being posted by other members of this list. >This is reprehensible, particularly so because of the reasoning >that is being used - sentiments to the effect that the >respectability of the field is somehow diminished by Peter's >postings. That he has in someway strayed to far from logic or >some other value that the critic holds dear. Well actually, you can now hear about the THIRD example on non-existent grounds! After my recent and second succesful (people enjoyed the programme, if the emails are anything to go by!!) appearance on Jeff Rense "Sightings" radio show the UASR people wrote an email, generally circulated, to him demanding that I be banned from future shows for presenting a number of uncomfortable facts about the Belgian UFO flap of 1989/90. These comments were fully checked by me and are checkable by others. I cannot tell you how dismayed I was to find that supposed Ufologists feel that they have any right to ban, or request the ban of, any opinion within this subject unless it is so extreme and unacceptable that it would lead to discrimination on religious or racial lines - and this would be especially rare I think..... Peter Gersten has done some very important work for Ufology - something that is being ever so conveniently ignored at this time.... People can and do disagree - and even though I do not believe in the reality of alien visitation my Lancashire UFO Society meetings are a forum, in NW England, for the discussion af a particularly wide variety of views. We often present lectures by people who claim to have made contact with extra-terrestrials, to have been "abducted" and so on. My view is that our audience, "Sightings" listeners, and Ufologists are, in the main, perfectly able to make their own minds up. This is what UASR fear......
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:13:48 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 04:22:35 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:36:16 -0500 >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:31:50 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> >>Subject: Re: UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>From: Perry van den Brink <UASR@gmx.net> >>>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:24:17 +0100 >>>Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:45:54 -0500 >>>Subject: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>Dear UASR list members and all, > >>>As some of you may already know, last week we at UASR decided to >>>discontinue our feed from Peter Gersten's CAUS (Campaign Against >>>UFO Secrecy). This may have come as something of a surprise to >>>some, and we felt we should explain the action. >><snip> >Gentlemen, >I was saddened but not at all surprised by UASR's censorship of >postings from Peter Gersten and CAUS. This is because this is >the second instance of censorship by UASR that I personally know >of on similarly specious grounds. >So I am not surprised but I am shocked at the justifications for >censorship that are being posted by other members of this list. >This is reprehensible, particularly so because of the reasoning >that is being used - sentiments to the effect that the >respectability of the field is somehow diminished by Peter's >postings. That he has in someway strayed to far from logic or >some other value that the critic holds dear. <snip> ============================================> While I am certain UASR can, have and will continue, to speak for themselves, I would very much like to speak for myself, regarding this issue. There are several words in your post, Gary, to which I take exception. The first word is "censorship." UASR is not censoring CAUS prognostications, in fact, UASR suggests that anyone interested in the continuing saga should subscribe to CAUS. Therefore, I feel that "censorship" is not what UASR is doing. The second word is a word set. I take exception to the following, >".....the >respectability of the field is somehow diminished by Peter's >postings. That he has in someway strayed to far from logic or >some other value that the critic holds dear." The only dimunition I read is that statement above. Gary, it is your suggesting that CAUS has somehow diminished the field. In the announcement, UASR made no such inference. Nor does the dropping of CAUS from the list indicate or even suggest, that Mr. Gersten has "...strayed too far from logic..." Indeed, once again, these are your words. UASR's post is just about as serious, as diplomatic and as forthright as it can be. (My opinion). You go on to say: >Well face it folks, just by subscribing and participating in a >list like this you are placing yourself way beyond two standard >deviations from the norm. It hardly seems to me that this is >the forum for the pot to be calling the kettle black. These >sentiments would better belong in the CISCOP journal than in >suppressing Peter's postings. Yet there is much to be gained >from reading all of these sources directly, uncensored and I do. >I think that having Peter posting and having the opportunity to >correspond with him is of inestimable value. Gary, are you suggesting that by virtue of the subject matter of this venue, that we (the subscribers and the moderators) are deviating from what you consider to be two standard norms. I am not sure to which two you are referring, altho I get the impression it is "subscribing and participating." I guess then by your own standard deviation, you too, are a deviant since you subscribe and have participated, eh? That last word was for our hosts in Toronto. In the field of ufology, it is my opinion that those of us who research, are researched, are experiencers or merely interested in the subject matter, are quite aware of what some so called "Normal" people think about us. However, "WE" - "US," do not feel in any way, that we are deviants from the accepted norm, whatever the hell that may be these days. I say, "these days," because normalcy seems to change as we speak. Do subscribe to CAUS. I do. I take Peter or for that matter anyone, at their word. I read, I listen and I then decide what fits my gene pool, intellectually speaking, that is. So I subscribe to CAUS and read every word. I truly believe that Peter believes what he states. Also true, is the fact that each person who in an experiencer, also believes what he or she has seen, heard, etc. However that does not preclude UASR from making a choice as to how far astray CAUS updates can go. UASR drew the line when it did. It is _their_ List. It is not in the public domain. Therefore, to censor UASR for censoring CAUS brings both the UASR censurer, the CAUS censurer and the censor that censored the.... uh.... well, I guess you got the message. At least I hope you did. at my age I get very confused very
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:40:21 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 04:24:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:31:27 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>To: Roger R. Prokic <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> >>Date: Mon 23 Nov, 1998 14:53 >>This page at Malin Space Science Systems has a movie that shows >>the Mars Descent Imager Entry, Descent & Landing test results >>for the Mars Polar Lander. >>http://www.msss.com/stuff/edl4/ >>I wonder if this could be another sign for CAUS. >>Roger R. Prokic >>Telecom Design Lead >>Mars Surveyor Program >>Lockheed Martin Astronautics >>Denver, Colorado USA >>-=[ sent from a 3Com Palm III & Multimail Pro v2.11b ]=- >Dear Roger: >All I see is a clumsily animated grey alien 'waving' at me in >front of what looks like a radar dish. >Is that the joke? >- Larry Hatch >= = = = Larry and List: Whew! I dunno about yous guys but I started waving to the little bastard just as soon as the image started to load. And the strangest and most wondeful miracle occurred..... HE WAVED BACK! Jim Mortellaro, AKA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 UFO Seen Over Nijmegen, The Netherlands From: Andy Denne <aura@telekabel2.nl> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:28:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 04:28:03 -0500 Subject: UFO Seen Over Nijmegen, The Netherlands Hi all, We just recieved a sighting-report from 2 witnesses saying they were walking the dog. There were watching the sky, just for a short time when they saw what looked like a star getting brighter and brighter, the light was blue-ish/white in colour. Then the light got weaker again and it became what the both describe as "somewhat eyeshaped"(elliptical) it then irraticly moved up and down for a short time before it shot off in the nightsky again. Now for the details (as far as we know now, that is): Date sighting: 25 November 1998 Witnesses: 2 Direction of sighting: In the South-West, it departed to the West. Time: around 21:45 (Dutch time) Weather conditions: Somewhat cloudy, but lot's of clear spots Duration: ca. 1 minute When we spoke to the witnesses they sounded impressed to say at least, about what they saw. It's too early to tell you anything more, but I will speak to the witnesses in person very soon. I'll keep you updated, Best wishes, Andy Denne (A.U.R.A.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 'Roswell Memo' Images On Friedman's New CD ROM From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:09:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 04:48:18 -0500 Subject: 'Roswell Memo' Images On Friedman's New CD ROM Announcement Because I have had many questions about the "Memo" being held in the hand of General Roger Ramey in a picture taken in his office on July 8, l947, by J. Bond Johnson, I have decided to make available for a nominal fee a CD ROM with a great deal of relevant information . My goal is to enlist the help of as many analysts as possible so that a concensus might be reached as to just what words are on the "memo". The CD ROM includes high resolution scans of the following items: 1. The memo portion of an 11"x14" print of the picture obtained earlier this year from U. of Texas, Arlington, Archives. 2. The memo portion of an 8"x10" print that I obtained 20 years ago from the Ft. Worth Star Telgram long before the negative was handled a lot. 3. An 8"x10" print of roughly just the memo portion made for me a few months ago by UTA. It is the equvalent of the memo portion of a print roughly 55" x70". 4. The Original 4"x5" negative. It was scanned in its entirety, and with very high resolution (about 8300ppi), back and front, of the memo portions. The scans were done by an imaging outfit in Dallas. It cost me $250. just to have the UTA carry the negative and remain with it while it was being scanned. and an addtional $250 for the scans, the CD ROMs, FedEx etc. I am very grateful to Victor Golubic of Phoenix for locating the imaging company and discussing the scans with them. My colleague is Rob Belyea, owner and operator of ProLab, here in Fredericton, New Brunswick Canada, one of the top 10 labs in the country. He has been in the business for more than 30 years. He has compiled all the scans with additional materials (including work in progress) on a CD ROM having about 188MB. The CD ROM is available for US25$ or equivalent in Canadian $ or English pounds. Send check or money order to Stan Friedman at: POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730 if you live in the USA. All others use 79 Pembroke Crescent, Fredericton, NB Canada E3B 2V1. The price includes shipping and handling.Let the chips fall where they may. Neil Morris, Bond J. and Debbie Stock have already been sent their CD-ROMs. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:51:04 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 05:01:29 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:19:58 -0700 (MST) >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >SETI, is entirely funded with private donations, and that is >fine. But requesting government money as funding is starting >once again. >The purpose of SETI, as I understand it, is to determine if >extraterrestrial intelligent life EXISTS. SETI should not be >confused with any radio-astronomy search of our universe. It >was devised to answer one question ONLY, which is, does >intelligent extraterrestrial life EXIST, >If SETI's purpose is to find out where ET's are from, study ET's >history and culture, or transfer ET's technology for mankind's >use, then SETI is not useless. However, SETI is not looking for >such information. >Manufactured craft with capabilities that can not be >demonstrated by anything made on our planet, are trespassing our >airspace. This is fact. They have been witnessed by aeronautical >engineers, pilots, and astronauts. Records of radar reports, >photographs, video-tapes, and samples of earth glazed at alleged >landing sites have been submitted for examination. >None of earth's military or science can duplicate the >aeronautical feats or invisibility capabilities of such craft. >Inter-dimensional creatures, time travelers, ghosts, angels, or >demons, if such were responsible for trespassing our airspace, >would not need any "nuts and bolts" manufactured craft to visit >our planet. Some species, civilization, or intelligence is >manufacturing, piloting and/or controlling such craft, which >cannot be duplicated by current earthly knowledge. >Would we like to know where such craft come from? Certainly. >Would we like to examine the history and culture of any >civilization producing such craft? Yes. Would we like to adopt >technology that seems to be far advanced? Positively. Is SETI >after such information? NO. >SETI is electromagnetically searching for proof that >extraterrestrial intelligent life EXISTS. Reliance on SETI for >such proof, in my opinion, negates and ridicules all the >evidence collected showing intelligent species, not of this >planet, are visiting this planet. >Radio astronomy is not useless for exploring our universe, but >SETI is a joke, a waste of time, money, and talent, period. >== Doc Barry ==========================================> As an amateur astronomer, amatuer radio operator, communications-oriented electronics engineer and a possible experiencer, I agree Doc. As I have stated previously, there is so much to investigate and research right here on planet earth, with relevance to ET's, that to waste time and money on a radio search for life makes about as much sense as looking for a needle in a haystack. In consideration of the numbers involved of habitable planets vs. pieces of hay, I'd say a lot LESS sense. I like to believe I am a sensible and open-minded individual, but when it comes to listening to radio signals coming from a planet tens of light years away, requiring tens of years to receive a reply, I am afraid I draw the line. So many people right here on solid ground have seen and been taken by, entities from out there. Having a choice, I would spend research money on investigating who these entities are, what their purpose is here on earth, what they want from us and our livestock, why they take us from our beds, cradles and other assorted places, how they manage to come thru my walls, how they manage to get us thru our walls, etc., etc., etc. I suppose that makes too much sense. We cannot assign sensibility to our government when it comes to getting them to tell us what we both already know, eh? I mean, whaddya think this is, anyway...... a Democracy or sumpin? The single most extraordinary fact of life which causes so much frustration in me, personally (other than culpable ignorance) is for us and the government facing each other while we tell the truth and they lie... especially when they know that we know they lie and we know they know we know they lie. Are we having fun yet? Come on, funny feelin' Jim Mortellaro, AKA Dr. Jaime Gesundt, Canal Street UFO
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research <iufor@frii.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:43:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 05:10:38 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:43:27 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Marie Ivey <jmi@aretha.jax.org> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:36:16 -0500 >>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:31:50 -0400 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> >>>Subject: Re: UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>>From: Perry van den Brink <UASR@gmx.net> >>>>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:24:17 +0100 >>>>Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:45:54 -0500 >>>>Subject: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>><snip> >>>>Please understand that we have not taken this action lightly, >>>>and that we have had immense respect for CAUS in the past, and I >>>>am sure we will do once again in the future, but for the time >>>>being we did not want to crowd our list with what we felt was >>>>information that was not pertinent to _our_ charter: Scientific >>>>investigation of UFOs, Aliens and Space Research. >>>>Thank you >>>>Dave Pigott & Lieve Peten >>>>Moderators, UASR. >>>>& >>>>Perry van den Brink, >>>>owner UASR. ><snip> >>So I am not surprised but I am shocked at the justifications for >>censorship that are being posted by other members of this list. >>This is reprehensible, particularly so because of the reasoning >>that is being used - sentiments to the effect that the >>respectability of the field is somehow diminished by Peter's >>postings. That he has in someway strayed to far from logic or >>some other value that the critic holds dear. > >>Well face it folks, just by subscribing and participating in a >>list like this you are placing yourself way beyond two standard >>deviations from the norm. It hardly seems to me that this is >>the forum for the pot to be calling the kettle black. These >>sentiments would better belong in the CISCOP journal than in >>suppressing Peter's postings. Yet there is much to be gained >>from reading all of these sources directly, uncensored and I do. >>I think that having Peter posting and having the opportunity to >>correspond with him is of inestimable value. >>Till now where else could one observe players in the field in >>action? For instance... >>We have had the opportunity to observe Kal Korff in full >>debunking mode flash in and out of this list, ignoring any and >>all calls for response to David Rudiaks postings. Korff even >>threatened his livelihood! Was he censored for that behavior? >>Why no, as we all have seen. >>We have seen wonderful fragfests involving and tens of postings >>by "famous" names in this field leading absolutely nowhere and >>furthering no research goal in the field other than perhaps >>character assassinations. Were these individuals censored for >>their behavior? Why no, as we all have seen. >>I could cite several other examples but I am sure you get my >>drift. >>I know Peter is doing me no harm when I read his posts and I am >>sure that you know he is doing none to you either. ><snip> >Agreed! Censorship seems inappropriate for these lists unless, >of course, there are those making personal attacks. We need all >views to sort out what we can reasonably accept. No censorship >without just "Caus". >Best regards, Marie It appears to me that the people who are frothing at the mouth and shouting "censorship" over this issue would not be able to identify censorship if they met it in the middle of the street. Those who speak for CAUS are not being "censored" by anyone. They are perfectly free to distribute their sensationalist drivel anywhere they think it will help promote their cause (i.e., getting attention). They are free to email any one of you or post to usenet groups and mailing lists ad libitum, without the slightest thought of suppression or retribution, with as little regard for integrity and personal responsibility as they see fit. If someone refuses to help them hand out leaflets at the door, is he censoring them? Certainly not. For a separate group to refuse to participate, because of principles of their own, hardly constitutes censorship. Are you saying they should be forced to do this, whether they want to or not? That would be something far worse than mere censorship. Do rights of free choice exist only on one side of this issue? I am pleased to join the original posters in their hope that CAUS will once again become an organization worthy of respect, at some presently-unforeseeable point in the future. Regards, Bob -- INSTITUTE FOR UFO RESEARCH ---------------------------------- Bob Thrift, Fort Collins, Colorado http://www.frii.com/~iufor/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:44:04 +0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 05:15:11 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:36:16 -0500 >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:31:50 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> >>Subject: Re: UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>From: Perry van den Brink <UASR@gmx.net> >>>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:24:17 +0100 >>>Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:45:54 -0500 >>>Subject: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>Dear UASR list members and all, >>>As some of you may already know, last week we at UASR >>>decided to discontinue our feed from Peter Gersten's CAUS >>>(Campaign Against UFO Secrecy). <snip> >>>Dave Pigott & Lieve Peten >>>Moderators, UASR. >>>& >>>Perry van den Brink, >>>owner UASR. >Gentlemen, >I was saddened but not at all surprised by UASR's censorship of >postings from Peter Gersten and CAUS. This is because this is >the second instance of censorship by UASR that I personally know >of on similarly specious grounds. >So I am not surprised but I am shocked at the justifications for >censorship that are being posted by other members of this list. >This is reprehensible, particularly so because of the reasoning >that is being used - sentiments to the effect that the >respectability of the field is somehow diminished by Peter's >postings. That he has in someway strayed to far from logic or >some other value that the critic holds dear. >Well face it folks, just by subscribing and participating in a >list like this you are placing yourself way beyond two standard >deviations from the norm. It hardly seems to me that this is >the forum for the pot to be calling the kettle black. These >sentiments would better belong in the CISCOP journal than in >suppressing Peter's postings. Yet there is much to be gained >from reading all of these sources directly, uncensored and I do. >I think that having Peter posting and having the opportunity to >correspond with him is of inestimable value. >Till now where else could one observe players in the field in >action? For instance... >We have had the opportunity to observe Kal Korff in full >debunking mode flash in and out of this list, ignoring any and >all calls for response to David Rudiaks postings. Korff even >threatened his livelihood! Was he censored for that behavior? >Why no, as we all have seen. >We have seen wonderful fragfests involving and tens of postings >by "famous" names in this field leading absolutely nowhere and >furthering no research goal in the field other than perhaps >character assassinations. Were these individuals censored for >their behavior? Why no, as we all have seen. >I could cite several other examples but I am sure you get my >drift. >I know Peter is doing me no harm when I read his posts and I am >sure that you know he is doing none to you either. >The respectability of this field was lost back in the 1950s when >the Robertson Panel cracked down and drove serious study in the >field, other than by sanctioned investigators and organizations, >underground. Get used to it. For the mainstream this is a >field of and for pariahs and until "authority" should if ever in >its wisdom recognize the field, it will so remain. >If Peter is going to fall on his own sword then so be it. >Censorship in this field kept the issues of occupants and >landings from being discussed for many years. Till then these >things, these UFOs, just flew around and didn't know how to >park! >The discussion of the issue of abductions in the United States >was delayed, nearly ten years after its appearance in Latin >America, by self censorship. >The study of intelligence and counterintelligence operations in >this field has been impeded by censorship too, edited out of the >"mainstream" reference works and publications. >Enough of this. Peter should be able to speak in his way, in >his time so that we may individually hear what he has to say. >I won't be following him to any ascending UFOs but if he is as >knowledgeable a tour guide of the Sedona region as he sounds to >me then I can only say I wish I had some time to visit with him. >Gary Dear Gary and list, Here, here! I have to completely agree with you on this one. I have been pretty much a silent observor for some time now and some of the slinging matches I have seen go above and beyond the views of Mr Gersten. We are all here to find answers to the many questions posed, even daily. Answers even if they are not what we were hoping for. How are we supposed to do this if unnecessary censorship builds a wall between opposing opinions? We will only get one side of the issue, and what good can come from that? Cheers, Sharon. K.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:44:04 +0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 05:26:08 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:36:16 -0500 >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:31:50 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> >>Subject: Re: UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>From: Perry van den Brink <UASR@gmx.net> >>>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:24:17 +0100 >>>Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:45:54 -0500 >>>Subject: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>Dear UASR list members and all, >>>As some of you may already know, last week we at UASR >>>decided to discontinue our feed from Peter Gersten's CAUS >>>(Campaign Against UFO Secrecy). <snip> >>>Dave Pigott & Lieve Peten >>>Moderators, UASR. >>>& >>>Perry van den Brink, >>>owner UASR. >Gentlemen, >I was saddened but not at all surprised by UASR's censorship of >postings from Peter Gersten and CAUS. This is because this is >the second instance of censorship by UASR that I personally know >of on similarly specious grounds. >So I am not surprised but I am shocked at the justifications for >censorship that are being posted by other members of this list. >This is reprehensible, particularly so because of the reasoning >that is being used - sentiments to the effect that the >respectability of the field is somehow diminished by Peter's >postings. That he has in someway strayed to far from logic or >some other value that the critic holds dear. >Well face it folks, just by subscribing and participating in a >list like this you are placing yourself way beyond two standard >deviations from the norm. It hardly seems to me that this is >the forum for the pot to be calling the kettle black. These >sentiments would better belong in the CISCOP journal than in >suppressing Peter's postings. Yet there is much to be gained >from reading all of these sources directly, uncensored and I do. >I think that having Peter posting and having the opportunity to >correspond with him is of inestimable value. >Till now where else could one observe players in the field in >action? For instance... >We have had the opportunity to observe Kal Korff in full >debunking mode flash in and out of this list, ignoring any and >all calls for response to David Rudiaks postings. Korff even >threatened his livelihood! Was he censored for that behavior? >Why no, as we all have seen. >We have seen wonderful fragfests involving and tens of postings >by "famous" names in this field leading absolutely nowhere and >furthering no research goal in the field other than perhaps >character assassinations. Were these individuals censored for >their behavior? Why no, as we all have seen. >I could cite several other examples but I am sure you get my >drift. >I know Peter is doing me no harm when I read his posts and I am >sure that you know he is doing none to you either. >The respectability of this field was lost back in the 1950s when >the Robertson Panel cracked down and drove serious study in the >field, other than by sanctioned investigators and organizations, >underground. Get used to it. For the mainstream this is a >field of and for pariahs and until "authority" should if ever in >its wisdom recognize the field, it will so remain. >If Peter is going to fall on his own sword then so be it. >Censorship in this field kept the issues of occupants and >landings from being discussed for many years. Till then these >things, these UFOs, just flew around and didn't know how to >park! >The discussion of the issue of abductions in the United States >was delayed, nearly ten years after its appearance in Latin >America, by self censorship. >The study of intelligence and counterintelligence operations in >this field has been impeded by censorship too, edited out of the >"mainstream" reference works and publications. >Enough of this. Peter should be able to speak in his way, in >his time so that we may individually hear what he has to say. >I won't be following him to any ascending UFOs but if he is as >knowledgeable a tour guide of the Sedona region as he sounds to >me then I can only say I wish I had some time to visit with him. >Gary Dear Gary and list, Here, here! I have to completely agree with you on this one. I have been pretty much a silent observor for some time now and some of the slinging matches I have seen go above and beyond the views of Mr Gersten. We are all here to find answers to the many questions posed, even daily. Answers even if they are not what we were hoping for. How are we supposed to do this if unnecessary censorship builds a wall between opposing opinions? We will only get one side of the issue, and what good can come from that? Cheers, Sharon. K.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 03:58:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:05:29 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House I wrote: >From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:17:03 +0100 >Subject: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >[List only] >Source: Wired News, >http://www.wired.com:80/news/print_version/politics/story/16471.html?wnp >g=3Dall >Stig >******* >updated 3:00=BFa.m. 25.Nov.98.PST ><snip> >Looking for ... money: Scientists from Search for >Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence organizations around the country >are petitioning the White House, asking that the US government >restore funding for its research projects. <snip> I posted a copy to the SETI Email Discussion List, where H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., who is the Executive Director of The SETI League, took exception to Wired News calling the originators of the project Scientists from Search for >Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence organizations. Shuch wrote: *** Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:34:27 -0500 From: "Dr. H. Paul Shuch" <n6tx@setileague.org> To: seti@sni.net Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House At 12:23 PM 11/25/98 +0100, Stig Agermose forwarded: >>Source: Wired News, >>Earlier this week, Tobias D. Wabbel, science-fiction author >>and founder of the Project Starvoice European SETI program, >>released a petition signed by about 33 SETI researchers, >>including Arthur C. Clarke, author of 2001: A Space Odyssey; >>Stephen Jay Gould, Harvard anthropologist and author of books >>like Questioning the Millennium; and Dennis Overbye and James >>Gleick, science writers for The New York Times. The petition >>will be sent to President Clinton in January. I mean no disrespect to the colleagues mentioned above (some of whom are my friends), but *not one* of them is generally recognized as a SETI scientist. In fact, I know of nobody in the "big 3" SETI organizations (or even SETI League, the "little fourth") who has been asked to sign that petition. Not that lobbying is necessarily a bad idea, but I must point out that this petition does not speak for a representative sample of "SETI scientists." The SETI League's mission statement originally included the goal: "Encourage congress to restore funding to the NASA SETI program." That bullet was removed by action of our Board of Trustees early on, as we feel privatization (and internationalization) of SETI is not all bad. Please see my comments at http://www.setileague.org/admin/dirword.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------- H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D. Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. 433 Liberty Street, PO Box 555, Little Ferry NJ 07643 USA voice (201) 641-1770; fax (201) 641-1771; URL http://www.setileague.org/ email work: n6tx@setileague.org; home: drseti@usa.net "We Know We're Not Alone!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Meteorite Whizzes By Golfers Ear! From: Bob Soetebier - bikebob <bikebob@mo.net> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:03:39 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:14:53 -0500 Subject: Meteorite Whizzes By Golfers Ear! The following Reuters News Service article appeared in the "St. Louis [Missouri] Post-Dispatch" on 10-3-98. Here's the URL for the "Post" article: http://archives.postnet.com/archives/pdarc98.nsf/562e50b071e825 be862565f600661d3d/8bc6a11cbafd5d8b86256694007c1c36?OpenDocument Bob Soetebier Tailwinds to you...See you ON the road! /// BICYCLE BOB ///bikebob@mo.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- 1998 Post Dispatch Archives Saturday, October 3, 1998 Section: NEWS GOLFER IS REWARDED FOR HIS CLOSE BRUSH WITH METEORITE Reuters News Service TORONTO ________________________________________________________________ A Canadian golfer was rewarded this week for having a close encounter with a meteorite - so close, it whizzed by his ear. Orville Delong, 57, a maintenance worker from Cambridge, Ontario, said in an interview Friday he was golfing on July 12 when he heard the "eerie sound" of a meteorite the size of a baseball as it shot by his left ear. The meteorite was estimated to be moving at about 12.4 miles per second. "At first we thought somebody was shooting at us," he said. The University of Toronto, which wanted to study the meteorite, rewarded Delong with a free season's golf pass at a golf club in Kitchener, Ontario. The meteorite probably originated in an asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, said University of Toronto geology professor John Rucklidge. Delong is no stranger to near-disaster on the links. In 1977 lightning struck him on a golf course as he ran for cover under a tree. "I'm having trouble getting partners to play with," he joked.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:59:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:31:46 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:19:58 -0700 (MST) >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >SETI, is entirely funded with private donations, and that is >fine. But requesting government money as funding is starting >once again. <snip> >If SETI's purpose is to find out where ET's are from, study ET's >history and culture, or transfer ET's technology for mankind's >use, then SETI is not useless. However, SETI is not looking for >such information. >Manufactured craft with capabilities that can not be >demonstrated by anything made on our planet, are trespassing our >airspace. This is fact. They have been witnessed by aeronautical >engineers, pilots, and astronauts. Records of radar reports, >photographs, video-tapes, and samples of earth glazed at alleged >landing sites have been submitted for examination. >None of earth's military or science can duplicate the >aeronautical feats or invisibility capabilities of such craft. >Inter-dimensional creatures, time travelers, ghosts, angels, or >demons, if such were responsible for trespassing our airspace, >would not need any "nuts and bolts" manufactured craft to visit >our planet. Some species, civilization, or intelligence is >manufacturing, piloting and/or controlling such craft, which >cannot be duplicated by current earthly knowledge. >Would we like to know where such craft come from? Certainly. >Would we like to examine the history and culture of any >civilization producing such craft? Yes. Would we like to adopt >technology that seems to be far advanced? Positively. Is SETI >after such information? NO. <snip> Doc, Nice view. From: http://www.last-word.com/nsplus/insight/mars/seti.html One can read: "NASA researchers believe contact with other intelligent life will be one of the most significant events in the history of the human race. SETI, the $100-million search for extraterrestrial intelligence, is the culmination of three decades of smaller-scale searches that have been funded largely from university grants and private donations." In my opinion SETI is a $100-million adventure based on a 1950 cheap b-zone sci-fi hypothesis. SETI got 30 years of research and came out empty-handed. The funny part it that its promoters still have credibility. Most scientists and researchers in the FOIA adventure on UFOs came out with their hands full but with NO credibility. The 50 years running joke on UFOs could come to an end with simple solutions: declassification and removal of censorship on all documents pertinent to the UFO phenomenon and $0.00.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:08:06 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:32:24 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:19:58 -0700 (MST) >Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:08:25 -0500 >Subject: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House Previously, Doc offered: >The purpose of SETI, as I understand it, is to determine if >extraterrestrial intelligent life EXISTS. <snip> >Manufactured craft with capabilities that can not be >demonstrated by anything made on our planet, are trespassing our >airspace. This is fact. <snip> >SETI is electromagnetically searching for proof that >extraterrestrial intelligent life EXISTS. Reliance on SETI for >such proof, in my opinion, negates and ridicules all the >evidence collected showing intelligent species, not of this >planet, are visiting this planet. >Radio astronomy is not useless for exploring our universe, but >SETI is a joke, a waste of time, money, and talent, period. Well, Doc, how can anyone argue with a statement that ends with both the word "period" and the actual symbol (.)? Just joking. I do agree that there is ample evidence of alien visitation that isn't being explored enough with the resources already at hand. I also agree that enough funding isn't being allocated for such study. But to give up SETI on the grounds that "they're already among us" is to eroneously assume that the extraterrestrials visiting us are the same as the ones that might attempt to contact us from afar via SETI. With all the millions of star systems in the universe, what would the likelyhood be for that, eh? I mean, just what are the odds that we've been visited by the ONLY aliens that exist in the universe and that they, somehow, in all this expanse of space found us but don't want to stop long enough to say "hello"? They are awfully elusive, don't you think? If they're not gonna stop to chat, then I say let's look for friendlier neighbors elsewhere. To do that, we need SETI. No offense, but saying that we don't need SETI to assist in the exploration of our surroundings is like saying that we really don't need to hear since we can see; or that we really don't need to smell since we can taste. Would you give up any of your senses? Not likely. You need them all to get a complete picture of, and to communicate with, the world around you. Claiming that SETI has just one purpose isn't really fair when you consider the larger picture. Just like sight, language, hearing, touch and smell, SETI is just one of the many ways in which we are attempting to interpret the universe around us. Period (.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 05:24:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:26:08 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:43:27 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Marie Ivey <jmi@aretha.jax.org> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:36:16 -0500 >>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:31:50 -0400 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> >>>Subject: Re: UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>>From: Perry van den Brink <UASR@gmx.net> >>>>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:24:17 +0100 >>>>Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:45:54 -0500 >>>>Subject: [UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>><snip> >>>>Please understand that we have not taken this action lightly, >>>>and that we have had immense respect for CAUS in the past, and I >>>>am sure we will do once again in the future, but for the time >>>>being we did not want to crowd our list with what we felt was >>>>information that was not pertinent to _our_ charter: Scientific >>>>investigation of UFOs, Aliens and Space Research. >>>>Thank you >>>>Dave Pigott & Lieve Peten >>>>Moderators, UASR. >>>>& >>>>Perry van den Brink, >>>>owner UASR. ><snip> >>So I am not surprised but I am shocked at the justifications for >>censorship that are being posted by other members of this list. >>This is reprehensible, particularly so because of the reasoning >>that is being used - sentiments to the effect that the >>respectability of the field is somehow diminished by Peter's >>postings. That he has in someway strayed to far from logic or >>some other value that the critic holds dear. >>Well face it folks, just by subscribing and participating in a >>list like this you are placing yourself way beyond two standard >>deviations from the norm. It hardly seems to me that this is >>the forum for the pot to be calling the kettle black. These >>sentiments would better belong in the CISCOP journal than in >>suppressing Peter's postings. Yet there is much to be gained >>from reading all of these sources directly, uncensored and I do. >>I think that having Peter posting and having the opportunity to >>correspond with him is of inestimable value. >>Till now where else could one observe players in the field in >>action? For instance... >>We have had the opportunity to observe Kal Korff in full >>debunking mode flash in and out of this list, ignoring any and >>all calls for response to David Rudiaks postings. Korff even >>threatened his livelihood! Was he censored for that behavior? >>Why no, as we all have seen. >>We have seen wonderful fragfests involving and tens of postings >>by "famous" names in this field leading absolutely nowhere and >>furthering no research goal in the field other than perhaps >>character assassinations. Were these individuals censored for >>their behavior? Why no, as we all have seen. >>I could cite several other examples but I am sure you get my >>drift. >>I know Peter is doing me no harm when I read his posts and I am >>sure that you know he is doing none to you either. ><snip> >Agreed! Censorship seems inappropriate for these lists unless, >of course, there are those making personal attacks. We need all >views to sort out what we can reasonably accept. No censorship >without just "Caus". >Best regards, Marie =============================> Hi Marie, All, This is a perfect example of one man's trash being another man's treasure! I don't think that the actions taken by Dave Pigott, Lieve Peten, & Perry van den Brink, are "censorship". They, like many others have noticed the change for the worse at CAUS since Mr Gersten took over, and they simply refuse to _propagate_ what is coming out of that list. There is a huge difference between _that_, and "censorship". CAUS was, and could be again, an excellent vehicle for a grass roots movement to confront government agencies on the issue of UFO secrecy. (It's original charter, ergo the name; Citizens Against UFO Secrecy) That is so far removed from what comes out of that list nowadays as to make the name meaningless. If Peter wants to publish his popular tripe about UFOs and abduction etc. he has every right, as do those who wish to read it. But others have a choice whether to repost and publicize it on their own websites & Lists. I don't see that as anything that can be described as "censorship". Personally I think that the material that is published by CAUS is doing more of a 'dis-service' to abductees and serious research than anything else. I unsubscribed from it awhile back and had some words with Mr Gersten about it right here on this list. Some may call it a "fragfest" but I see it as simply calling a spade a spade. Dave, Perry, and Lieve, I think you did the right and moral thing in this situation. Regardless of how your decision is perceived by some (censorship) I want you to know that some of us understand where you are coming from and support your actions. Peace, John Velez, Webmaster IF-AIC ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net INTRUDERS FOUNDATION/ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:57:16 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:29:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:40:21 EST >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:31:27 -0800 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >>Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>>To: Roger R. Prokic <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>>From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> >>>Date: Mon 23 Nov, 1998 14:53 >>>This page at Malin Space Science Systems has a movie that shows >>>the Mars Descent Imager Entry, Descent & Landing test results >>>for the Mars Polar Lander. >>>http://www.msss.com/stuff/edl4/ >>>I wonder if this could be another sign for CAUS. >>>Roger R. Prokic >>>Telecom Design Lead >>>Mars Surveyor Program >>>Lockheed Martin Astronautics >>>Denver, Colorado USA >>>-=[ sent from a 3Com Palm III & Multimail Pro v2.11b ]=- >>Dear Roger: >>All I see is a clumsily animated grey alien 'waving' at me in >>front of what looks like a radar dish. >>Is that the joke? >>- Larry Hatch >>= = = = >Larry and List: >Whew! I dunno about yous guys but I started waving to the >little bastard just as soon as the image started to load. And >the strangest and most wondeful miracle occurred..... >HE WAVED BACK! >Jim Mortellaro, AKA >Dr. Gesundt, Canal Street UFO and Fresh Wine Merchants Dear Jim: I'm still confused ( befuddled? ) What does the waving grey alien have to do with Malin Space Sciences? Was this image actually on their website?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 47 From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:40:19 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:33:34 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 47 >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:40:45 -0600 >From: Patrick V. Reavis <preavis@ro.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 47 >>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:49:03 +0000 >>To: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> >>From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> >>Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 47 >>From: Masinaigan@aol.com >>UFO ROUNDUP >>Volume 3, Number 47 >>November 24, 1998 >>Editor: Joseph Trainor >>WHITEHALL PLANS TROOP MOBILIZATION IN Y2K CRISIS >>Whitehall plans to call up thousands of UK Territorial Army >>reserves to deal with civil unrest sparked by the Year 2000 >>Computer Crisis, the British newspaper Sunday Mirror reported >>last week. >This is very interesting. Would anyone have a link to the >original article for confirmation? I'm researching the Y2K >topic for a college course, and any help would be greatly >appreciated! Hello Patrick, This is the original text I sent to Joe and was typed in from the paper: SOURCE: Sunday Mirror (UK) November 15, 1998 Army calls in reserves for Millenium chaos by Tim Luckett Officers from Britain's Army reserves have been put on alert to deal with the chaos of New Year's Eve 1999. They have been asked to help cope with possible civil unrest and communications disasters as the year 2000 begins. Whitehall fears the huge celebrations, plus widespread computer failures due to the "Millenium Bug", will leave the country facing a "Doomsday" secenario. In a secret letter seen by the Sunday Mirror, the Army officer reservists are asked about their availability between December 22, 1999 and January 9, 2000. The letter was posted from the Army reservist co-ordinatin centre at Ministry of Defence headquarters in Whitehall. It says problems on a national scale are expected and it provides the first clear indication that troops will be on standby to cope with the expected Millenium Bug chaos. The letter makes special reference to new reservist legislation, with sections on civil unrest, defence of the nation, human resources and national security. It is the first time reservists have been asked for help in a domestic situation. An MoD spokesman would not confirm the letter had been sent. But he said: "Clearly the Army stand by for any form of assistance that civil powers feel they need over the Millenium." [END ARTICLE] The Sunday Mirror has a website at http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk but the article is not on there - I have just checked for you. Hope this helps, John Hayes jhayes@cableinet.co.uk webmaster@ufoinfo.com UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/ UFOICQ Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:- http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 New Free Call Australian UFO Hot Line From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:46:42 +1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:43:24 -0500 Subject: New Free Call Australian UFO Hot Line Keith Basterfield Network Australasia tkbnetw@fan.net.au ******************************************* The UFO Australian Research Network Hot Line ******************************* Free call 1800 77 22 88 *************************** A World First "A UFO Hot Line" linking _all_ Australian UFO Groups and Independent Researchers Passing on and Sharing Information This is how it works you call the Hot Line leave your Telephone Number, the City and State your calling from and we will get your local representative to call you back ASAP so please speak clearly you will have 1 minute to record your details. This Hot line is being Sponsored by UFO Groups and Private Enterprise. If you would like to be a sponsor & for more details please contact: Diane Harrison & Robert Frola at: The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia at E-mail tkbnetw@fan.net.au The UFO Investigation Centre Queensland E-mail Address ufoicq@powerup.com.au Please pass the above number to any one how would like to report a sighting Free. Thank you to all those people that have given there support One small step for UFO Groups One giant leap for the freedom of information for all.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Skywatch: What Dropped from the Sky? From: Skywatch International <jhickman@itlnet.net> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:05:15 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:51:10 -0500 Subject: Skywatch: What Dropped from the Sky? From: gerry [mailto:ed@farshore.force9.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, November 26, 1998 5:41 AM To: Skywatch International Subject: What Dropped from the Sky? Source: Detroit Free Press Date: November 24 1998 Headline: From a bird? A plane? Mystery muck rains on roofs By Beth Krodel One minute Ernestine Stange's garage and driveway were white. The next, they were covered with thousands of textured, dark brown droppings. The next-door neighbor's gray house -- with its new addition on the back -- and driveway were covered with the strange blotches, too. Based on the massive number of spots, the color and the fact that they were on the rooftops, Stange assumed the droppings that fell last Tuesday in Westland were human feces dumped from an airplane. She made dozens of phone calls -- to airport officials, county health officials and the Michigan Department of Agriculture. On Thursday, an environmental specialist took samples. The conclusion after tests: It's not human feces, but beyond that, it remains a mystery. Metro Airport spokesman Len Singer said: "I can't tell you what it was. But I can tell you what it wasn't, and it wasn't human waste." "I'm worried about getting this mess cleaned up," Stange said Monday as she looked out her sliding glass window at her filthy garage. "We've had several jokes about it. 'I've heard of it hitting the fan, but the garage?' 'You talk about sitting in a pile of it.' That kind of thing. But I'm really afraid of disease and everything else. I'm worried about my animals and what might be in that stuff. I guess if it wasn't my house, I'd also find it funny." Stange's neighbor Mariusz Boguszewski said he doesn't think the mess is funny, either. "I was just going to let it go as an angry flock of birds, but my neighbor wants to investigate it. And they've got my curiosity up," he said Monday before lab tests were completed. Stange said she doubted birds could make such a mess: "They would've had to have had a convention right above my house and have everyone go at once." Singer said he would ask lab technicians to run more tests today. Airport spokesman Mike Conway said that in the 12 years he's been working for the airport, it's had six or eight calls from people who thought their homes had been hit by airplane waste. "And in none of the cases has the lab test ever showed that it was aircraft waste," he said Monday. "However, that doesn't mean it couldn't happen." Stange found little comfort in the news that the material wasn't human feces. "I still need to know what it is, because it can be a hazard to myself and to my family and to my animals. This is just too frustrating." ::: end ::: ||||||||||||||> via <|||||||||||||| Gerry @ Far Shores Web Site http://www.farshore.force9.co.uk ||||||||||||||> FAR NEWS --- Ride the Wave <|||||||||||||| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *************************** SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Greg St Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:18:34 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:00:32 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:08:06 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House Hi Roger, you wrote: <snip> >I mean, just what are the odds that we've been visited by the ONLY >aliens that exist in the universe and that they, somehow, in all >this expanse of space found us but don't want to stop long >enough to say "hello"? >They are awfully elusive, don't you think? If they're not gonna >stop to chat, then I say let's look for friendlier neighbors >elsewhere. To which, I point out (From UFO Roundup): >GUNBOATS FIRE AT UFOs OFF THE COAST OF SRI LANKA " >On Wednesday night, November 18, 1998, naval gunboats opened >fire on UFOs at sea off Point Pedro, on the northern shore of >Sri Lanka, an island nation adjacent to India." Who are the unfriendly neighbors, Roger? >No offense, but saying that we don't need SETI to assist in the >exploration of our surroundings is like saying that we really >don't need to hear since we can see; or that we really don't >need to smell since we can taste. SETI isn't exploring our surroundings...they aren't interested in quasars and nebulas and the like. They want alien signals that they aren't going to get. When was the last time a SETI researcher documented a new comet, or new galaxy, or black hole? >Would you give up any of your senses? Not likely. You need them >all to get a complete picture of, and to communicate with, the >world around you. Claiming that SETI has just one purpose isn't >really fair when you consider the larger picture. In my opinion, SETI has given up a sense already...common sense. Have they ever defined the threshold by which they can declare a signal genuinely extraterrestrial? If the amount of evidence now present, even if it IS only "anecdotal" (which it isn't) isn't enough to indicate an unknown phenomena here on this planet, what makes SETI folks think they can do better, regardless of what they get for a signal? They are in the middle of a very large forest (UFO evidence) and are squinting into the distance looking for a tiny tree, and don't even know what shape to look for. To me, the logic is seriously flawed, yet I bear them no ill will. I genuinely hope they find what they're looking for.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: UFO Seen Over Nijmegen, The Netherlands From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:22:23 +0100 (MET) Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:03:43 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Seen Over Nijmegen, The Netherlands >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:28:07 +0100 >From: Andy Denne <aura@telekabel2.nl> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO Seen Over Nijmegen, The Netherlands >Hi all, >We just recieved a sighting-report from 2 witnesses saying they >were walking the dog. There were watching the sky, just for a >short time when they saw what looked like a star getting >brighter and brighter, the light was blue-ish/white in colour. >Then the light got weaker again and it became what the both >describe as "somewhat eyeshaped"(elliptical) it then irraticly >moved up and down for a short time before it shot off in the >nightsky again. Now for the details (as far as we know now, >that is): >Date sighting: 25 November 1998 >Witnesses: 2 >Direction of sighting: In the South-West, it departed to the >west West. >Time: around 21:45 (Dutch time) >Weather conditions: Somewhat cloudy, but lot's of clear spots >Duration: ca. 1 minute >When we spoke to the witnesses they sounded impressed to say at >least, about what they saw. It's too early to tell you anything >more, but I will speak to the witnesses in person very soon. >I'll keep you updated, >Best wishes, Hi Andy, Have you and your people contacted Twente airfield yet? If they have some corroberating sightings or radar recordings you could pinpoint the exact location of the object. I'm wondering whether there are some installations of interest to UFOs around Nijmegen. This is one of many UFO observations in that area. Good Luck! __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:22:23 +0100 (MET) Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:06:14 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:17:45 -0000 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >>Date: 25 November 1998 11:02 >Well actually, you can now hear about the THIRD example on >non-existent grounds! >After my recent and second succesful (people enjoyed the >programme, if the emails are anything to go by!!) appearance on >Jeff Rense "Sightings" radio show the UASR people wrote an >email, generally circulated, to him demanding that I be banned >from future shows for presenting a number of uncomfortable facts >about the Belgian UFO flap of 1989/90. These comments were fully >checked by me and are checkable by others. Hi Tim, I have watched your comments about the Belgian flap being critisized on UASR as I was one of those who did the criticism. I don't want to go on debating on the whole Belgian flap again as I did so extensively on this list about a year ago. Except one thing, for your statement that the radar systems were faulty there exists no evidence whatsoever. Another thing is that UASR thinks it has the authority to ban postings from its list that contain information or opinions they don't like. Of course every moderator has the freedom to censor his list the way he wants. But it contradicts the principles that UASR claims it stands for, Alien and Space _Research_. Research can only be helped by giving everyone the right to vent his theories and opinions, regardless of the opinions of the moderator, as long as standards of basic human civility are respected. By banning Gersten and telling Rense what to do they are out of line. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Darren Danks <darrend@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:56:36 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:09:22 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto [mailto:updates@globalserve.net] >Sent: 26 November 1998 10:15 >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]>UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:44:04 +0800 >Dear Gary and list, >Here, here! I have to completely agree with you on this one. I >have been pretty much a silent observor for some time now and >some of the slinging matches I have seen go above and beyond the >views of Mr Gersten. >We are all here to find answers to the many questions posed, >even daily. Answers even if they are not what we were hoping >for. How are we supposed to do this if unnecessary censorship >builds a wall between opposing opinions? We will only get one >side of the issue, and what good can come from that? >Cheers, >Sharon. K. Dear List I must agree with what Gary and Sharon have said. We are all fighting against censorship and not hearing all of the truth from the powers who know the truth yet we insist on censoring our own information!! This is happening far too much in Ufology, the main example is how groups tend not to share sighting information between each other. Hold back personal information if the whitness so wishes but the other details should be passed on. UASR should retract their ban and allow freedom of speech. After all, no freedom of speech means no free will which means we are being controlled. Something which should not be happening. Take care
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:10:13 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:12:16 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House Dear list readers: For the life of me, I cannot understand some of the anti-SETI messages recently. If the UFO people think the SETI people are a bit odd, what do you suppose they think of us? _If_, the SETI efforts get one credible peep out of the cosmos, one verifiable signal from some obviously intelligent source, it would bolster the UFO/ET argument like no other single fact acceptable to present-day mainstream science. There are millions, perhaps billions of people on Earth who still think that mankind is the only intelligent species in the universe. Many of these seem to take it as some sort of religious tenet, even though no sensible religion would take such a stupid position. I am reminded of competing religions with very similar beliefs, .. endlessly warring .. only to the benefit of their worst enemies. I wish the SETI people every success, and of course the UFO people the very same if not more. - Larry Hatch.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: UFOs - Ersatz Exposure, Oh Shocking! From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 98 11:52:23 PST Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:14:49 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs - Ersatz Exposure, Oh Shocking! >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:57:03 -0600 >From: Loy Pressley <lkpres@koyote.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOs - Ersatz Exposure, Oh Shocking! >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:01:11 -0500 >>From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: UFOs - Ersatz Exposure, Oh Shocking! >>The 1950s and UFOs; >>Ersatz Exposure in the Standard Literature! ><snip> >>Anyway, in his capacity as 'expert' Hynek cranked out nonsense >>'explanations' of solid UFOs that had been reported by good >>professionals, who were thus held up to ridicule. What can we >>call this besides a form of disingenuous betrayal? Has everyone >>forgotten the awesome skewering that Hynek received from >>McDonald in connection with his (Hynek's) UFO debunking, >>debunking he had done while in the employ of the Air Force >>(wink, wink,) in a 'cover project' for SIGN? Apparently so. >>That is, somehow over the last forty years the >>scientist/intelligence agent has been converted into a kindly >>old gent who, with pipe-in-hand, had the interests of us all at >>heart. ><snip> >Dr. Hynek, in the end, was not a debunker. In his book, The UFO >Experience: A Scientific Inquiry, Copyright 1972 by J. Allen >Hynek, he advocated an intense scientific investigation of UFOs >be done by the most prominent scientists of the day. The >sincerity of the witnesses that he personally interviewed and >his personal investigation of many sightings had led him to >believe that UFOs were a true phenomena worthy of examination. >He felt that unraveling the mystery of UFOs would lead to a >quantum leap in the level of scientific knowledge. I knew Allen Hynek fairly over the last 10 years of his life. He was not an "intelligence agent," and he was, indeed, a kindly old gent who, with pipe in hand, had the interests of us all at heart. He also had a wonderful sense of humor. He had his faults, as all of us do. I think Jim McDonald was right to criticize him for taking so long to challenge Blue Book. But in the end what counts is that he did it, with great personal courage and at considerable professional cost. I feel myself honored to have known the man. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: New Free Call Australian UFO Hot Line From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:09:58 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:19:55 -0500 Subject: Re: New Free Call Australian UFO Hot Line >From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Free Call Australian UFO HOT LINE 1998 YA!!! :>) >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:46:42 +1000 >Keith Basterfield Network Australasia >tkbnetw@fan.net.au >******************************************* >The UFO Australian Research Network Hot Line >******************************* >Free call 1800 77 22 88 >*************************** >A World First "A UFO Hot Line" linking _all_ Australian UFO >Groups and Independent Researchers Passing on and Sharing >Information >This is how it works you call the Hot Line leave your Telephone >Number, the City and State your calling from and we will get >your local representative to call you back ASAP so please speak >clearly you will have 1 minute to record your details. >This Hot line is being Sponsored by UFO Groups and Private >Enterprise. Hello Diane, I have just seen your message and will add the details to the other Hot Lines on UFOINFO. Best wishes, John Hayes jhayes@cableinet.co.uk webmaster@ufoinfo.com UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/ UFOICQ Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:- http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Larry Fawcett? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:54:29 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:21:27 -0500 Subject: Larry Fawcett? Dear colleagues, Can anyone supply me with the telephone number of Larry Fawcett ? This is a for a colleague in the UK researching the Rendlesham Forest case. Thanks, Philip Mantle. E-mail: el51@dial.pipex.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 C-E: Books For Sale From: Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:15:21 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:43:57 -0500 Subject: C-E: Books For Sale $5 each. Add $1 for first individual book, 50-cents for each additional to cover shipping. $3 for Priority Mail. Money orders or cash only. Good gifts for collectors. Will help support the web site. Francis Ridge 618 Davis Dr. Mt. Vernon, IN 47620 *** sold and not available Abduction (John Mack) ***Alternative 003 (Leslie Watkins) ***Anatomy of a Phenomena (Jacques Vallee) Andreasson Affair (Ray Fowler) Beyond Earth: Man's Contact With UFOs (Ralph Blum) Chariots of the Gods (Erik Von Daniken) ***Challenge To Science (Jacques Vallee) Encounter Cases from Flying Saucer Review (Charles Bowen) Flying Saucers On The Attack (Harold Wilkens) Flying Saucers - Serious Business (Frank Edwards) ***Flying Saucers Uncensored (Harold Wilkens) Gods From Outer Space (Erich Von Daniken) The Great Pyramid (Tom Valentine) The Home of the Gods (Andrew Tomas) In Search of Extra-Terrestrials (Alan Landsburg) In Search of Ancient Mysteries (Alan & Sally Landsburg) Intruders (Bud Hopkins) Incident At Exeter (John G. Fuller) Invisible Residents (Ivan Sanderson) Letters to the Air Force on UFOS (Bill Adler) Moongate (William L. Brian II) trade paperback size ***Messengers of Deception (Jacques Vallee) Mankind - Child of the Stars (Max H. Flindt & Otto Binder) The Mysterious Past (Robert Charroux) Mysteries From Forgotten Worlds (Charles Berlitz) No Earthly Explanation (John Wallace Spencer) Our Ancestors Came From Space (Maurice Chatelain) The Outer Space Connection (Alan & Sally Landsburg) Ripley's Believe It Or Not (Stars, Space & UFOs) The Sky People (Brinsley Le Poer Trench) Secret Forces of the Pyramids (Warren Smith) Strangers From The Skies (Brad Steiger) Sons of God Return (Kelly L. Seagraves) Temple of the Stars (Brinsley lePoer Trench) The Truth About Flying Saucers (Aime Michel) UFO Exist! (Paris Flammonde) UFO Report (Irving Greenfield) UFO Trek (Warren Smith) UFO Abductions (D. Scott Rogo) UFOs, Past, Present & Future (Robert Emenegger) Witnessed (Budd Hopkins) We Are Not the First (Andrew Tomas) ***Why Are They Watching Us? (Allen Louis Erskine) Support AND USE the research web sites by sending $1 a month to: Sites 618 Davis Drive Mt. Vernon, IN 47620 Main InterLink Site Directory:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Filer's Files #47-1998 From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:49:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:49:56 -0500 Subject: Filer's Files #47-1998 Source: http://ufoinfo.com/filer/1998/ff_4798.html Filer's Files #47-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer: MUFON Eastern Director, November 27, 1998 Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 Filer's Files: sponsored by Global Force Ltd Have a wonderful and HAPPY THANKSGIVING! and count our blessings, Representative Steven H. Schiff (R-New Mexico) in response to the possible crash of an alleged UFO outside Roswell in 1947, requested info from the DOD. "It's difficult for me to understand, even if there was a legitimate security concern in 1947, that it would be a present security concern these many years later. Frankly, I am baffled by the lack of responsiveness on the part of the Defense Department on this one issue, I simply can't explain it." (Remarks on CBS radio's The Gil Gross Show, February 1994). Congressman Steven Schiff recently passed away and is missed by many. GEORGIA PAULDING COUNTY -- Sheriff's Department scanner reported a possible UFO over a mountain on November 17, 1998. Don Edward's reports, " At 8:30 PM I was listening to Kim Peterson on WGST (105.7). To my surprise the entire show was dedicated to reports of green fireballs and UFO's in Northern Georgia and in Roswell north of Atlanta. Around 11:00 PM, a women saw an emerald green ball moving from east to west at low altitude. Another car was in the oncoming lane and braked hard to avoid the object. Later, another person called the station claiming that early Sunday morning he was driving south from North Georgia on Highway 400 and found his car surrounded by small silver cylindrical objects pacing and dodging his car. Other cars on the road braked and slowed down to around 30 MPH. All were apparently observing the same objects. He also noticed a large series of =91swirling=92 lights and an object in the sky above him with lights shooting in and out of main object. Thanks to Jeannie Paradise ALPHARETTA--A Marietta business woman and an associate were driving down a Cherokee County Road at 10:23 PM near Highway 140 on November 17, 1998. She noticed a brilliant green diamond shaped object hovering over the treetops on the left side of the road. She stated that it appeared to be about the size of a Volkswagen and the color or surface seemed to be undulating, sometimes displaying a sort of lime green. It seemed to sort of 'shake,' then quickly dropped down behind the trees out of sight. She got a clear view of this object for about five seconds, then pulled off the road, but lost sight of it. This witness was found to have a technical and scientific background with a major oil company. MUFON Georgia had observers in several locations on Monday and Tuesday for the Leonid meteor showers. The post we set up on Fort Mountain for the Skywatch exceeded expectations. On Monday night and Tuesday morning, the fog cleared. While we did not count them (they were coming in too rapidly), about 200 meteors were observed. Actually it was rather awesome. They ranged from large 'normal' meteor trails to many large displays leaving blue/red/green contrails across half the sky. We saw long smoking tendrils that hung in the atmosphere for up to several minutes. At times, the small hill we were on was illuminated by burning meteor flashes. Tuesday was not as spectacular. Thanks to Tom Sheets, MUFON GA State Director. LITHIA SPRINGS--I received an e-mail from GA Manor, who had an important sighting on September 15, 1998. She wrote, "I had slowed and noticed lights through the trees and thought to myself how odd that the lights would be on the field so early in the morning at 5:30 AM. A break occurred in the trees. I could see a little clearer and my first impression was that a helicopter had landed. Quickly I realized it wasn't a hovering helicopter. This thing was huge, approximately 60+ feet in diameter and about two stories tall and brightly lit with rotating red, green and white lights. I sat there amazed for a few seconds and became afraid once I realized what was happening especially since my grandson was with me. The very next second 'it' was gone. No sound, no wind, no nothing. This park complex is in a heavily populated area only about 15 miles west of Downtown Atlanta. Several days later, I returned and the entire grassy area of the baseball field and the dirt diamond were scorched black. Just two days ago I went back to the field. The grass is just beginning to grow back though it remains crunchy under foot. No soot marks remain, since we've had several days of rain as of late, but my white tennis shoes were covered with black soot. Thanks to GA Manor. MOULTRIE On a clear still April night of 1998, one of the most bizarre UFO close-encounters took place. An elderly woman living on the Moultrie-Culbertson Road in rural Colquitt County said that at around two in the morning her dog awakened her. Opening her front door she took her dog outside. On reaching the end of her short driveway, at the edge of Moultrie Road, she saw at slightly above eye-level a UFO hovered silently only twenty feet away. In a large field the bluish-gray, 'V'-shaped craft displayed no lights and wavered not in the least. Having a tail in its back and only a front set of narrow, but thick swept-backed wings, she said the UFO appeared similar to a giant glider. No canopy, glass or landing gear, however, could be seen on the craft. The witness said the craft, in her opinion, was definitely not man-made. "Transfixed," she watched the craft for over five minutes before flying car-like "headlights" emerged from the UFO. Eventually six self-contained "headlight beams" slowly floated around the dark hovering UFO and flew up to above tree level. The beams turned and twisted as they moved quietly and shone around the UFO. After fifteen minutes the flying lights floated back down and reentered through an unseen opening in the UFO. Her dog was at her side but acted "indifferent" and never barked at the craft. Upon returning inside her home she watched through the window and saw the UFO was still there. Scared, but still intensely curious, she walked outside and watched for an additional twenty minutes. The UFO never moved and while she saw no occupant, she said she felt she "was being watched" from inside the craft. Returning to her isolated farm house, where she lives alone, she uneasily tried to sleep. The next morning the metal-skinned UFO was gone. In the pasture across the road she found no evidence that anything was amiss. She called her daughter, who put her mother in touch with us. Thanks to MUFON=92s John Thompson TENNESSEE=97On November 18, 1998, a couple enroute to work at 9:00 AM on Highway 60 near the Georgia State line observed an elongated cigar type craft. The witnesses described it as being about 50 feet long, and more of an elongated rectangle than a classic cigar shape traveling NW at about 55 mph. It was low at about twice tree top altitude and only several hundred feet away. It appeared to be white or shinny colored. There were no wings, but a brownish or dark coloration was in the area where wings would normally be expected. There was a brown or dark 'box' like structure at the back of the craft. The craft disappeared behind the trees and wooded areas nearby. Thanks to Tom Sheets, MUFON State Director. SOUTH CAROLINA My husband was driving, I was in the passenger seat and our friend was in the back seat. My husband spotted a very low flying object hovering over a house. I saw it too, and asked him what he thought it might be? He replied, "It's a UFO!" We stopped the car and the three of us got out and walked back down the road about 20 feet. We were staring at this thing, which by then had started to move toward the road where we were standing. It was rather large, about the size of the pictures I have seen of Stealth planes. It made no sound, but it did have funny colored lights blinking or pulsating from it. I served for 8 years in the Navy and never saw anything like it. The craft was so low, it was right above the pine trees. It could not have been more than 100 feet in the air, as it flew slowly right above us. We stood there looking at it for about five minutes. The object was hovering right over top of us. Then it started to move very slowly over a field on our side of the road. The trees had been cut from this part of the pine forest, so we could watch as it flew away. Three months later, the same exact object flew right over us again above the trees like before. We stopped the car, and this time our two daughters were with us. We watched it fly slowly across the interstate and out of sight. This happened one night in late August 1994, at midnight.. Thanks to miranda_2@mailexcite.com FLORIDA: TAMPA--On November 17, 1998, at about 4:30 AM a flying =91V=92 was spotted by numerous people on the night of the meteor shower. The =91V=92 craft was described as being about 500 feet wide and traveling very fast at an altitude of 10,000 feet. "It looked almost as if it was translucent and made absolutely no sound" said one witness who supposedly took photos of the craft. Sources say the =91V=92 craft had no lights on it. Therefore, most people would not have noticed it, if they had not been watching the meteor shower that night. If I can find anybody with pictures of the craft, I will post them on my Website at www.totalufo.net, that is still under construction. Thanks to Jason Overholser jasono@totalufo.net LOUISIANA CANKTON--Ross and Sandra Ellender report that on November 12, 1998, we were sleeping when a blinding light began shinning in our bedroom window. The light awoke us at 3:00 AM. We saw a large round light moving at rapid speeds, then suddenly the light disappeared. We will contact you if there are any further sightings. Thanks to Ross and Sandra Ellender, (318)984-4421, 506 Woodvale Ave. Lafayette, LA 70503, Bonehead83@aol.com. MICHIGAN On November 23, 1998, a bright flashing light heading north by north west was observed descending near US Highway 131 over central Michigan. It was traveling very rapidly and appeared to crash at 7:12 PM. The estimated crash site is in the vicinity of US 131 and US 10. We observed numerous airplanes, jets, and helicopters that seemed to be searching the area. Thanks to ISUR Sighting Reports and John Thompson. COLORADO SMITH RESERVOIR -- Chris O'Brien, the CAUS Director of Investigations, reports from the San Luis Valley, that the vacation is over. Anomalous aerial craft sighting reports continue into November. Strange how "UFO" sightings seem to cluster around obvious heightened training activity by the Air Force; especially when they are contemplating conducting aerial sorties against Iraq. On November 14, 1998, Junne Walkley saw a great big silver 'V' hovering over the Smith Reservoir area-west of Blanca. She stopped the car at 9:15 AM and watched for a minute. She estimated the craft was ten miles away to the east and the size of a quarter held at arm's length. She watched the huge craft for a minute, when the object flew straight up and out of sight in "a couple of seconds. Junne and Virgil Walkley have had several sightings and are observant Skywatchers GREENIE MOUNTAIN=97Multiple objects were observed at sunset on November 17, 1998, in Rio Grande County. A relative of the Walkleys, "a strong skeptic," witnessed three objects hovering over the San Juan Mountains. The UFOs were sitting still and reflecting the setting sun. The witness "was amazed" when the objects disappeared instantly. Thanks to Chris O=92Brien tmv@amigo.net; MONTANA BILLINGS--Peter Davenport reports that the National Reporting Center has received an unusually heavy number of UFO reports in recent months particularly in the West. These include a semi truck that was stopped on the highway by UFO near Billings. The UFO circled the truck before it decided to leave. CALIFORNIA ORANGE COUNTY--Guy Menton indicates he saw some strange blue flashes in the sky at about 2:30 AM, early Sunday morning on November 15, 1998. My friend, Chris Turk, and I were traveling south on Interstate 55 near the Orange County Airport when we observed a sudden brilliant flash of blue light along the horizon ahead of us. The sky was almost clear with some low fog layers, so we did not think it could be a natural occurrence such as lightning. This brilliant flash was spread over a wide area and low along the horizon, it lasted maybe two seconds, and there was no noise present. About two minutes later, the flash occurred again as we continued traveling south. This time, the flash was to our immediate left and much brighter, indicating that it must have stayed in the same general area and that we had moved closer to it. We thought it might be a plane crash, because we were near the airport. So we drove towards the general direction, where we last saw the flash. We did not encounter anything unusual or any further flashes. I am not saying this is UFO-related but I just thought I would report it to you since you have collected so many sightings. I was wondering if you had any similar reports of unexplained anomalous flashes in the sky. Thanks to Guy Menton. UNITED KINGDOM TELFORD--Adam reports that he had a twenty minute sighting on November 11, 1998, starting at 12:15 AM. It was a star-like object, but bigger and brighter, that was almost motionless. It had three colored lights that were blue, red and white. The lights did not flicker or strobe but shimmered over the West Midlands of England. I watched this object for 20 minutes through binoculars. A helicopter appeared to the lower left, then climbed higher than the UFO, went across the top, then headed towards and over me. At first, I couldn't discern if it was a plane or helicopter which was strange, because it was very close compared to the UFO. A few minutes later the helicopter returned. When I turned back to look at the UFO it was gone. I found out that a friend saw the same object, at the same time. Adam. Spookyfox@lowea.freeserve.co.uk. EAST ANGLIA =96 An amazing new video shows anomalous of lights over East Anglia in eastern England. Both the RAF and the Coastguard are investigating! Despite horrific winds over the sea, the Yarmouth Coastguard was surprised that their own people reported that the lights stayed in the same position for over seven hours in a wing shaped formation similar to what we saw over Phoenix, AZ! Thanks to Bill Knell CORNWALL--Skywatch International reports two cigar shaped craft were observed November 19, 1998, at 5:37 PM. Tony Watson a Madron Village resident witnessed two cylinder shaped sliver craft pursued by a military jet in the same area of his last sighting on October 6, 1998, at 7:30. The craft kept their distance a quarter mile in front of the military jet. The cylindrical craft were roughly twice the length of the jet. Editors note: The average fighter is fifty to sixty feet long making the cigars over 100 feet long. This summer, I saw a similar craft flying west in from the Atlantic Ocean over the coast at Barnegat Light, NJ. NORWAY HESSDALEN=97Erling P. Strand reports they are obtaining a steady stream of unidentified lights from their automatic field station. Photographic and video equipment has been set up in a field station overlooking Finns=E5h=F8gda Mountain looking towards the west and southwest. There is very little if any aircraft traffic over this area. Yet unidentified lights are photographed virtually weekly. A series of interesting photographs of anomalous lights are located on the web site at: http://indy.hiof.no/~hessdalen/pictures/index.html. Thanks to Erling.P.Strand@hiof.no. Editor's Note: To help solve the UFO phenomenon, I suggest automatic field stations be established near known UFO sites. NEW EVIDENCE THAT SOMETHING CRASHED IN NEW MEXICO 1947 Some fifty people claim to have observed alien material not of this world, or at the least very strange in 1947. Lets face it people's memories can be faulty after fifty years. But the evidence found in photographs and documents remains fresh. Fifty-one years ago flying discs or saucers were being reported in 44 of the 48 states. This was front page news, and there was a growing hysteria that the Russians, aliens, perhaps even the Nazis were over flying the country with these strange saucers. Often a dozen or more were reported by pilots and high quality witnesses. On July 8, 1947, Colonel Blanchard, commander of the 509 Bomb Group announced that the Army Air Force had captured a "Flying Saucer On a Ranch Near Roswell." The article went on to say that Major Marcel and a detail from his department had gone to the ranch and recovered the disk. After the intelligence office had inspected the instrument it was being flown to higher headquarters. The intelligence office stated that no details of the construction or its appearance were revealed. While this material was flown to 8th Air Force Headquarters, newspapers all over the country published the story. I recently interviewed Fort Worth Star Newspaper reporter J. Bond Johnson, who was asked to report to the Commander 8th Air Force, General Ramey=92s office on Carswell Air Force Base on July 8, 1947. Upon arrival around 4:00 PM, Johnson was ushered into the office by Colonel Dubose, the General's Chief of Staff. Laying on the floor were packages that had just been flown in from Roswell. J. Bond Johnson remembers that he and Colonel Dubose unwrapped the debris and displayed it on the floor to prepare for photographs. Fifteen minutes later, the General came into the room and kneeled in front of the debris holding a folded message in his hand. After taking his picture J. Bond Johnson suggested Colonel Dubose also get into the photo. The General apparently then read the message, and hurriedly folded it, so the writing now became visible to the camera. According to Colonel DuBose General Ramey was ordered by higher headquarters to squash the story. The message apparently contains the his orders to identify the debris as a weather balloon and a Rawin Radar Reflector. It also seems to contain the words =91victims=92, =912nd site near Magdalena.=92 Later in the day, weather officer Warrent Officer Irving Newton was photographed with a much smaller amount of debris in the General's office. Apparently, some of the critical debris was removed for the second series of photographs. The Roswell Photo Interpreter Team made up of Ron Regehr, Niel Morris, Ben Field and Marilyn Ruben using powerful computer enhancement claim they are able to see various strange symbols in the debris. One appears to be a lion head. It is unlikely that the Rawin Reflectors were designed with what appear to be strange symbols. In his July 21, 1994, sworn testimony to the Air Force, Newton identified the material as a balloon and a Rawin target used for reflecting radar returns. Newton states, "While I was examining the debris, Major Marcel was picking up pieces of the target sticks and trying to convince me that some notations on the sticks were alien writing!" There were figures on the sticks lavender or pink in color, appeared to be weather faded markings, with no rhyme or reason. He did not convince me these were alien writings." Editor=92s Note: Perhaps intelligence officer Major Marcel was correct that these are alien writings? GET THE BEST AND HELP UFO RESEARCH, IT COULD SAVE YOU MONEY As a special aid to our readers, we can help you obtain the best real estate experts in your area at no cost to you. Make sure you have a top notch agent, to buy or sell your home often your biggest investment. We provide free relocation information and consulting services from the largest and most respected firms. If your planning to sell or buy a home and would like a top flight real estate agent give me a call at 609 654-0020 or E-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com. Please send your name, phone number, address, price range and location to move. MUFON JOURNAL For more detailed investigative reports subscribe by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or call 1-800 UFO-2166. e-mail Mufon@aol.com. Filer's Files Copyright 1998 by MUFON EASTERN DIRECTOR all rights reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on their Websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. A search engine for Filer's Files can be found at http://www.ufoinfo.com/filer/search.html. Send your letters to George A. Filer at Majorstar@aol.com. If you wish to keep your name confidential please so state in your E-mails.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 26 Re: Filer's Files #47-1998 From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:58:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:58:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Filer's Files #47-1998 Source: http://ufoinfo.com/filer/1998/ff_4798.html Filer's Files #47-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer: MUFON Eastern Director, November 27, 1998 Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 Filer's Files: sponsored by Global Force Ltd Have a wonderful and HAPPY THANKSGIVING! and count our blessings, Representative Steven H. Schiff (R-New Mexico) in response to the possible crash of an alleged UFO outside Roswell in 1947, requested info from the DOD. "It's difficult for me to understand, even if there was a legitimate security concern in 1947, that it would be a present security concern these many years later. Frankly, I am baffled by the lack of responsiveness on the part of the Defense Department on this one issue, I simply can't explain it." (Remarks on CBS radio's The Gil Gross Show, February 1994). Congressman Steven Schiff recently passed away and is missed by many. GEORGIA PAULDING COUNTY -- Sheriff's Department scanner reported a possible UFO over a mountain on November 17, 1998. Don Edward's reports, " At 8:30 PM I was listening to Kim Peterson on WGST (105.7). To my surprise the entire show was dedicated to reports of green fireballs and UFO's in Northern Georgia and in Roswell north of Atlanta. Around 11:00 PM, a women saw an emerald green ball moving from east to west at low altitude. Another car was in the oncoming lane and braked hard to avoid the object. Later, another person called the station claiming that early Sunday morning he was driving south from North Georgia on Highway 400 and found his car surrounded by small silver cylindrical objects pacing and dodging his car. Other cars on the road braked and slowed down to around 30 MPH. All were apparently observing the same objects. He also noticed a large series of =91swirling=92 lights and an object in the sky above him with lights shooting in and out of main object. Thanks to Jeannie Paradise ALPHARETTA--A Marietta business woman and an associate were driving down a Cherokee County Road at 10:23 PM near Highway 140 on November 17, 1998. She noticed a brilliant green diamond shaped object hovering over the treetops on the left side of the road. She stated that it appeared to be about the size of a Volkswagen and the color or surface seemed to be undulating, sometimes displaying a sort of lime green. It seemed to sort of 'shake,' then quickly dropped down behind the trees out of sight. She got a clear view of this object for about five seconds, then pulled off the road, but lost sight of it. This witness was found to have a technical and scientific background with a major oil company. MUFON Georgia had observers in several locations on Monday and Tuesday for the Leonid meteor showers. The post we set up on Fort Mountain for the Skywatch exceeded expectations. On Monday night and Tuesday morning, the fog cleared. While we did not count them (they were coming in too rapidly), about 200 meteors were observed. Actually it was rather awesome. They ranged from large 'normal' meteor trails to many large displays leaving blue/red/green contrails across half the sky. We saw long smoking tendrils that hung in the atmosphere for up to several minutes. At times, the small hill we were on was illuminated by burning meteor flashes. Tuesday was not as spectacular. Thanks to Tom Sheets, MUFON GA State Director. LITHIA SPRINGS--I received an e-mail from GA Manor, who had an important sighting on September 15, 1998. She wrote, "I had slowed and noticed lights through the trees and thought to myself how odd that the lights would be on the field so early in the morning at 5:30 AM. A break occurred in the trees. I could see a little clearer and my first impression was that a helicopter had landed. Quickly I realized it wasn't a hovering helicopter. This thing was huge, approximately 60+ feet in diameter and about two stories tall and brightly lit with rotating red, green and white lights. I sat there amazed for a few seconds and became afraid once I realized what was happening especially since my grandson was with me. The very next second 'it' was gone. No sound, no wind, no nothing. This park complex is in a heavily populated area only about 15 miles west of Downtown Atlanta. Several days later, I returned and the entire grassy area of the baseball field and the dirt diamond were scorched black. Just two days ago I went back to the field. The grass is just beginning to grow back though it remains crunchy under foot. No soot marks remain, since we've had several days of rain as of late, but my white tennis shoes were covered with black soot. Thanks to GA Manor. MOULTRIE On a clear still April night of 1998, one of the most bizarre UFO close-encounters took place. An elderly woman living on the Moultrie-Culbertson Road in rural Colquitt County said that at around two in the morning her dog awakened her. Opening her front door she took her dog outside. On reaching the end of her short driveway, at the edge of Moultrie Road, she saw at slightly above eye-level a UFO hovered silently only twenty feet away. In a large field the bluish-gray, 'V'-shaped craft displayed no lights and wavered not in the least. Having a tail in its back and only a front set of narrow, but thick swept-backed wings, she said the UFO appeared similar to a giant glider. No canopy, glass or landing gear, however, could be seen on the craft. The witness said the craft, in her opinion, was definitely not man-made. "Transfixed," she watched the craft for over five minutes before flying car-like "headlights" emerged from the UFO. Eventually six self-contained "headlight beams" slowly floated around the dark hovering UFO and flew up to above tree level. The beams turned and twisted as they moved quietly and shone around the UFO. After fifteen minutes the flying lights floated back down and reentered through an unseen opening in the UFO. Her dog was at her side but acted "indifferent" and never barked at the craft. Upon returning inside her home she watched through the window and saw the UFO was still there. Scared, but still intensely curious, she walked outside and watched for an additional twenty minutes. The UFO never moved and while she saw no occupant, she said she felt she "was being watched" from inside the craft. Returning to her isolated farm house, where she lives alone, she uneasily tried to sleep. The next morning the metal-skinned UFO was gone. In the pasture across the road she found no evidence that anything was amiss. She called her daughter, who put her mother in touch with us. Thanks to MUFON=92s John Thompson TENNESSEE=97On November 18, 1998, a couple enroute to work at 9:00 AM on Highway 60 near the Georgia State line observed an elongated cigar type craft. The witnesses described it as being about 50 feet long, and more of an elongated rectangle than a classic cigar shape traveling NW at about 55 mph. It was low at about twice tree top altitude and only several hundred feet away. It appeared to be white or shinny colored. There were no wings, but a brownish or dark coloration was in the area where wings would normally be expected. There was a brown or dark 'box' like structure at the back of the craft. The craft disappeared behind the trees and wooded areas nearby. Thanks to Tom Sheets, MUFON State Director. SOUTH CAROLINA My husband was driving, I was in the passenger seat and our friend was in the back seat. My husband spotted a very low flying object hovering over a house. I saw it too, and asked him what he thought it might be? He replied, "It's a UFO!" We stopped the car and the three of us got out and walked back down the road about 20 feet. We were staring at this thing, which by then had started to move toward the road where we were standing. It was rather large, about the size of the pictures I have seen of Stealth planes. It made no sound, but it did have funny colored lights blinking or pulsating from it. I served for 8 years in the Navy and never saw anything like it. The craft was so low, it was right above the pine trees. It could not have been more than 100 feet in the air, as it flew slowly right above us. We stood there looking at it for about five minutes. The object was hovering right over top of us. Then it started to move very slowly over a field on our side of the road. The trees had been cut from this part of the pine forest, so we could watch as it flew away. Three months later, the same exact object flew right over us again above the trees like before. We stopped the car, and this time our two daughters were with us. We watched it fly slowly across the interstate and out of sight. This happened one night in late August 1994, at midnight.. Thanks to miranda_2@mailexcite.com FLORIDA: TAMPA--On November 17, 1998, at about 4:30 AM a flying =91V=92 was spotted by numerous people on the night of the meteor shower. The =91V=92 craft was described as being about 500 feet wide and traveling very fast at an altitude of 10,000 feet. "It looked almost as if it was translucent and made absolutely no sound" said one witness who supposedly took photos of the craft. Sources say the =91V=92 craft had no lights on it. Therefore, most people would not have noticed it, if they had not been watching the meteor shower that night. If I can find anybody with pictures of the craft, I will post them on my Website at www.totalufo.net, that is still under construction. Thanks to Jason Overholser jasono@totalufo.net LOUISIANA CANKTON--Ross and Sandra Ellender report that on November 12, 1998, we were sleeping when a blinding light began shinning in our bedroom window. The light awoke us at 3:00 AM. We saw a large round light moving at rapid speeds, then suddenly the light disappeared. We will contact you if there are any further sightings. Thanks to Ross and Sandra Ellender, (318)984-4421, 506 Woodvale Ave. Lafayette, LA 70503, Bonehead83@aol.com. MICHIGAN On November 23, 1998, a bright flashing light heading north by north west was observed descending near US Highway 131 over central Michigan. It was traveling very rapidly and appeared to crash at 7:12 PM. The estimated crash site is in the vicinity of US 131 and US 10. We observed numerous airplanes, jets, and helicopters that seemed to be searching the area. Thanks to ISUR Sighting Reports and John Thompson. COLORADO SMITH RESERVOIR -- Chris O'Brien, the CAUS Director of Investigations, reports from the San Luis Valley, that the vacation is over. Anomalous aerial craft sighting reports continue into November. Strange how "UFO" sightings seem to cluster around obvious heightened training activity by the Air Force; especially when they are contemplating conducting aerial sorties against Iraq. On November 14, 1998, Junne Walkley saw a great big silver 'V' hovering over the Smith Reservoir area-west of Blanca. She stopped the car at 9:15 AM and watched for a minute. She estimated the craft was ten miles away to the east and the size of a quarter held at arm's length. She watched the huge craft for a minute, when the object flew straight up and out of sight in "a couple of seconds. Junne and Virgil Walkley have had several sightings and are observant Skywatchers GREENIE MOUNTAIN=97Multiple objects were observed at sunset on November 17, 1998, in Rio Grande County. A relative of the Walkleys, "a strong skeptic," witnessed three objects hovering over the San Juan Mountains. The UFOs were sitting still and reflecting the setting sun. The witness "was amazed" when the objects disappeared instantly. Thanks to Chris O=92Brien tmv@amigo.net; MONTANA BILLINGS--Peter Davenport reports that the National Reporting Center has received an unusually heavy number of UFO reports in recent months particularly in the West. These include a semi truck that was stopped on the highway by UFO near Billings. The UFO circled the truck before it decided to leave. CALIFORNIA ORANGE COUNTY--Guy Menton indicates he saw some strange blue flashes in the sky at about 2:30 AM, early Sunday morning on November 15, 1998. My friend, Chris Turk, and I were traveling south on Interstate 55 near the Orange County Airport when we observed a sudden brilliant flash of blue light along the horizon ahead of us. The sky was almost clear with some low fog layers, so we did not think it could be a natural occurrence such as lightning. This brilliant flash was spread over a wide area and low along the horizon, it lasted maybe two seconds, and there was no noise present. About two minutes later, the flash occurred again as we continued traveling south. This time, the flash was to our immediate left and much brighter, indicating that it must have stayed in the same general area and that we had moved closer to it. We thought it might be a plane crash, because we were near the airport. So we drove towards the general direction, where we last saw the flash. We did not encounter anything unusual or any further flashes. I am not saying this is UFO-related but I just thought I would report it to you since you have collected so many sightings. I was wondering if you had any similar reports of unexplained anomalous flashes in the sky. Thanks to Guy Menton. UNITED KINGDOM TELFORD--Adam reports that he had a twenty minute sighting on November 11, 1998, starting at 12:15 AM. It was a star-like object, but bigger and brighter, that was almost motionless. It had three colored lights that were blue, red and white. The lights did not flicker or strobe but shimmered over the West Midlands of England. I watched this object for 20 minutes through binoculars. A helicopter appeared to the lower left, then climbed higher than the UFO, went across the top, then headed towards and over me. At first, I couldn't discern if it was a plane or helicopter which was strange, because it was very close compared to the UFO. A few minutes later the helicopter returned. When I turned back to look at the UFO it was gone. I found out that a friend saw the same object, at the same time. Adam. Spookyfox@lowea.freeserve.co.uk. EAST ANGLIA =96 An amazing new video shows anomalous of lights over East Anglia in eastern England. Both the RAF and the Coastguard are investigating! Despite horrific winds over the sea, the Yarmouth Coastguard was surprised that their own people reported that the lights stayed in the same position for over seven hours in a wing shaped formation similar to what we saw over Phoenix, AZ! Thanks to Bill Knell CORNWALL--Skywatch International reports two cigar shaped craft were observed November 19, 1998, at 5:37 PM. Tony Watson a Madron Village resident witnessed two cylinder shaped sliver craft pursued by a military jet in the same area of his last sighting on October 6, 1998, at 7:30. The craft kept their distance a quarter mile in front of the military jet. The cylindrical craft were roughly twice the length of the jet. Editors note: The average fighter is fifty to sixty feet long making the cigars over 100 feet long. This summer, I saw a similar craft flying west in from the Atlantic Ocean over the coast at Barnegat Light, NJ. NORWAY HESSDALEN=97Erling P. Strand reports they are obtaining a steady stream of unidentified lights from their automatic field station. Photographic and video equipment has been set up in a field station overlooking Finns=E5h=F8gda Mountain looking towards the west and southwest. There is very little if any aircraft traffic over this area. Yet unidentified lights are photographed virtually weekly. A series of interesting photographs of anomalous lights are located on the web site at: http://indy.hiof.no/~hessdalen/pictures/index.html. Thanks to Erling.P.Strand@hiof.no. Editor's Note: To help solve the UFO phenomenon, I suggest automatic field stations be established near known UFO sites. NEW EVIDENCE THAT SOMETHING CRASHED IN NEW MEXICO 1947 Some fifty people claim to have observed alien material not of this world, or at the least very strange in 1947. Lets face it people's memories can be faulty after fifty years. But the evidence found in photographs and documents remains fresh. Fifty-one years ago flying discs or saucers were being reported in 44 of the 48 states. This was front page news, and there was a growing hysteria that the Russians, aliens, perhaps even the Nazis were over flying the country with these strange saucers. Often a dozen or more were reported by pilots and high quality witnesses. On July 8, 1947, Colonel Blanchard, commander of the 509 Bomb Group announced that the Army Air Force had captured a "Flying Saucer On a Ranch Near Roswell." The article went on to say that Major Marcel and a detail from his department had gone to the ranch and recovered the disk. After the intelligence office had inspected the instrument it was being flown to higher headquarters. The intelligence office stated that no details of the construction or its appearance were revealed. While this material was flown to 8th Air Force Headquarters, newspapers all over the country published the story. I recently interviewed Fort Worth Star Newspaper reporter J. Bond Johnson, who was asked to report to the Commander 8th Air Force, General Ramey=92s office on Carswell Air Force Base on July 8, 1947. Upon arrival around 4:00 PM, Johnson was ushered into the office by Colonel Dubose, the General's Chief of Staff. Laying on the floor were packages that had just been flown in from Roswell. J. Bond Johnson remembers that he and Colonel Dubose unwrapped the debris and displayed it on the floor to prepare for photographs. Fifteen minutes later, the General came into the room and kneeled in front of the debris holding a folded message in his hand. After taking his picture J. Bond Johnson suggested Colonel Dubose also get into the photo. The General apparently then read the message, and hurriedly folded it, so the writing now became visible to the camera. According to Colonel DuBose General Ramey was ordered by higher headquarters to squash the story. The message apparently contains the his orders to identify the debris as a weather balloon and a Rawin Radar Reflector. It also seems to contain the words =91victims=92, =912nd site near Magdalena.=92 Later in the day, weather officer Warrent Officer Irving Newton was photographed with a much smaller amount of debris in the General's office. Apparently, some of the critical debris was removed for the second series of photographs. The Roswell Photo Interpreter Team made up of Ron Regehr, Niel Morris, Ben Field and Marilyn Ruben using powerful computer enhancement claim they are able to see various strange symbols in the debris. One appears to be a lion head. It is unlikely that the Rawin Reflectors were designed with what appear to be strange symbols. In his July 21, 1994, sworn testimony to the Air Force, Newton identified the material as a balloon and a Rawin target used for reflecting radar returns. Newton states, "While I was examining the debris, Major Marcel was picking up pieces of the target sticks and trying to convince me that some notations on the sticks were alien writing!" There were figures on the sticks lavender or pink in color, appeared to be weather faded markings, with no rhyme or reason. He did not convince me these were alien writings." Editor=92s Note: Perhaps intelligence officer Major Marcel was correct that these are alien writings? GET THE BEST AND HELP UFO RESEARCH, IT COULD SAVE YOU MONEY As a special aid to our readers, we can help you obtain the best real estate experts in your area at no cost to you. Make sure you have a top notch agent, to buy or sell your home often your biggest investment. We provide free relocation information and consulting services from the largest and most respected firms. If your planning to sell or buy a home and would like a top flight real estate agent give me a call at 609 654-0020 or E-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com. Please send your name, phone number, address, price range and location to move. MUFON JOURNAL For more detailed investigative reports subscribe by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or call 1-800 UFO-2166. e-mail Mufon@aol.com. Filer's Files Copyright 1998 by MUFON EASTERN DIRECTOR all rights reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on their Websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. A search engine for Filer's Files can be found at http://www.ufoinfo.com/filer/search.html. Send your letters to George A. Filer at Majorstar@aol.com. If you wish to keep your name confidential please so state in your E-mails.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Doc Barry Mauthority@webtv.net> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:59:10 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:31:32 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:08:06 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >>From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:19:58 -0700 (MST) >>Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:08:25 -0500 >>Subject: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House Roger Evans wrote: >SETI is just one of the many ways in which we are attempting to >interpret the universe around us. >> SETI is _not_ using radio astronomy to interpret the universe, period. They are using and monitoring electromagnetic signals (radio) to find out if intelligent extraterrestrial life EXISTS, period. To intelligent life that may be millions of years older than the human race, electromagnetic signals (radio) may be much like our generation using Indian blanket smoke signals for communications. If a signal is interpreted to have originated from 50 light years away, meaning it left there in 1948, we could reply immediately, and they would get our signal in 2048. And, in just 50 more years, if we received a reply, 2098, the existence of intelligent extraterrestials could be shown, providing all agreed on signal interpretation. Most of the universe is more than 50 light years away from us. Science insists that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, therefore eyewitness testimony, photos, radar reports, video-tapes, samples of glazed earth from alleged landing sites, are not considered as evidence. Science waits for one of two substantive things as evidence -- a genuine artifact or an alien -- which to non-scientists either would be considered proof, not evidence. Serge Salvaille wrote: >In my opinion SETI is a $100-million adventure based on a 1950 >cheap b-zone sci-fi hypothesis. SETI got 30 years of research >and came out empty-handed. The funny part is that its promoters >still have credibility. Most scientists and researchers in the >FOIA adventure on UFOs came out with their hands full but with >_no_ credibility. >> I agree with Serge. SETI is a joke, a waste of time, money, and talent, period. == Doc Barry ~~~~~Get BREAKING news plus UFO/ET news - NOW - click on "What's Up
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:49:47 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:35:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:02:49 +0100 >Subject: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Source: >http://www.eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-1998/pr-18-98.html >Stig <snip> >Discovery of a heavy planet in orbit around "Gliese 86" >Gliese 86 (also known as "HD 13445") is seen in the southern >constellation Eridanus (The River). It is a bright, rather cool >dwarf star, somewhat less massive than the Sun (about 0.79 solar >mass). It is also intrinsically fainter than the Sun (about 0.4 >solar luminosity). However, since it is quite nearby - about 35 >light-years only - its apparent magnitude is comparatively >bright and it is just at the limit of what can be seen with the >unaided eye (mV= 6.12). <snip> >The inferred minimum mass for the planetary companion is 4.9 >times the mass of planet Jupiter. The new planet is at a >distance of only 0.11 AU (16.5 million km) from the star, i.e. >just over one tenth of the Sun-Earth distance. The surface >temperature on the planet is quite high, about 380 oC. Hi Stig, Hi everyone, The announced discovery of a massive planet orbiting the binary star Gliese 86 (or HD 13445) will be of particular interest to those who are familiar with the famous star map reproduced by Betty Hill which was was shown to her by E.T. beings aboard a UFO. Marjorie Fish identified all of the stars in this star map and the whole story was written up by Terry Dickinson in a very controversial but very convincing article in Astronomy magazine back in 1974. It identified the binary star Zeta Reticuli as the E.T.'s home base. Except for an entry in The Extrasolar Planets Encyclopaedia http://wwwusr.obspm.fr/planets/ which was removed a few days later, this is the first time a star from this E.T. star map has been found to have a planet orbiting it. Anyone know the reason why the earlier "discovery" of a planet orbiting one of the two Zeta Retuculi stars was later removed from this comprehensive list? Since I cannot find my copy of Terry's 1974 Astronomy article and I had little success in finding this detailed star map on the Internet, could someone tell me if Gliese 86 was one of the stars (which included our Sun) that was connected by solid or dashed lines? If so, could we conclude that the E.T.s from Zeta Reticuli have also visited this planet orbiting around Gliese 86? Nick Balaskas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:42:40 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:35:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:31:27 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie To: Roger R. Prokic <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> >>Date: Mon 23 Nov, 1998 14:53 >>This page at Malin Space Science Systems has a movie that shows >>the Mars Descent Imager Entry, Descent & Landing test results >>for the Mars Polar Lander. >>http://www.msss.com/stuff/edl4/ >>I wonder if this could be another sign for CAUS. >>Roger R. Prokic >>Telecom Design Lead >>Mars Surveyor Program >>Lockheed Martin Astronautics >>Denver, Colorado USA >>-=[ sent from a 3Com Palm III & Multimail Pro v2.11b ]=- >Dear Roger: >All I see is a clumsily animated grey alien 'waving' at me in >front of what looks like a radar dish. >Is that the joke? >- Larry Hatch Not only is it a joke, but the alien is a blow up doll...I have one in my computer room here, just like it...only mine is green, I don't know what color that one is....sheesh... Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Perry van den Brink - [UASR]> <UASR@gmx.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 00:55:22 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:43:41 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:22:23 +0100 (MET) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:17:45 -0000 >>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>Date: 25 November 1998 11:02 Hello all, I didn't want to reply yet on all comments, as UASR will send out a final reply to all comments begin next week. Unfortunately I couldn't wait any longer after reading the below posting from Henny.... <snip> >Another thing is that UASR thinks it has the authority to ban >postings from its list that contain information or opinions they >don't like. = Wrong :-) We do _not_ think we have the authority; We know we have.... Here are some Quotes from the official UASR welcomes letter: ------ ANYONE WHO BREAKS THESE RULES IS SUBJECT TO HAVING HIS/HER FEED OR POSTING PRIVILEGE TO UASR CUT PERMANENTLY OR PUT ON PROBATION, **** WITHOUT WARNING **** THE MODERATORS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO GIVE WARNINGS BEFORE SUSPENDING OR REVOKING ACCESS TO THIS UASR ECHO. ------ >Of course every moderator has the freedom to censor >his list the way he wants. But it contradicts the principles >that UASR claims it stands for, Alien and Space _Research_. = Wrong again :-) As some people already said here on UFO UpDates: It has nothing to do with censor but everything with Quality, Posting Rules, etc. It is one of the reasons our members support us, after all you are the first, from wich I know who's on UASR, with negative comments :-) We started UASR because we disliked IUFO with 60+ postings aday and only a few about the subject U.F.O or related subjects like Space Research.... My time is expensive so I don't want to strugle through tons of mail with predictions, religion and other stuff of Non interest... Last but not least: I pay money to have this list so that gives me every authority in the universe to do what I want with the list ;-) Don't get me wrong; I will always respect the view and opinion of our members and will never abuse my "authority" [I hate that word....] >Research can only be helped by giving everyone the right to >vent his theories and opinions, regardless of the opinions of >the moderator, as long as standards of basic human civility are >respected. By banning Gersten and telling Rense what to do they >are out of line. What!? Everybody has the right to post on UASR and tell us their opinion as long as they keep it on topic and respect the UASR conference rules..... (and only members can post) And Henny, you should know UASR is a good list. What other reason would be there for you to stay ? As far as I remember you are a member since the beginning :-) Mr Rense was the first who replied very positive in reaction of our statement. We [I] never "telling Rense what to do" I asked him this: ---------- Hello Mr. Rense, -- -- Please take notice and stop spreading disinformation from Mr.Tim Matthews. [below that line was a response from Lieve Peten to the posting from Tim M.] ---------- So did I "telling Rense what to do" ? My English is not as good as I want it to be but I used the word "Please" which is IMO different from "Demanding" "Order" etc. I invited Tim Mathews. to join us on UASR and inform us about his sources and as I quote: "These comments were fully checked by me and are checkable by others" Still we have nothing received about the statement that the radar systems were faulty....?? Where is his evidence ?? Please, inform us about your evidence and investigation Mr. Tim Mathews. Because the Belgian UFO-flap is still one of the best documented sightings [IMO] Best regards to all, Perry van den Brink [NL] owner UASR. PS: Final comments are expected next Monday.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: 'Roswell Memo' Images On Friedman's New CD ROM From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:05:14 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:49:22 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Roswell Memo' Images On Friedman's New CD ROM >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: 'Roswell Memo' Images On Friedman's New CD ROM >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:09:59 -0400 >Announcement >Because I have had many questions about the "Memo" being held in >the hand of General Roger Ramey in a picture taken in his office >on July 8, l947, by J. Bond Johnson, I have decided to make >available for a nominal fee a CD ROM with a great deal of >relevant information . My goal is to enlist the help of as many >analysts as possible so that a concensus might be reached as to >just what words are on the "memo". <snip> Stan.... I don't know you except by reputation, we've never met. However I would like to take this opportunity to give you three cheers... too bad the guys with the Dead Sea Scrolls aren't as ungrudging as you gentlemen are. History might reveal more of it's secrets were this so. Magnanimity is not the strong suit of most players with the winning hand. Too bad. However...... Hip hip three times and as many hoorays.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:00:19 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:52:20 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:19:58 -0700 (MST) >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House <snip> >Radio astronomy is not useless for exploring our universe, but >SETI is a joke, a waste of time, money, and talent, period. >== Doc Barry My Turkish friend (an archive reader) responds with a good point: "Searching ET by EM signal is not worthless even ET presence on earth is officially accepted, I think. Because as everybody is aware, ET dont giving (except some claimed private close encounters) any information about its origin, its nature, its reason to be here and any other direct information usable for advancement of our science. Now, figure that SETI had a hit and hopefully publicize it. The origin of their signal, its nature and possible information embedded in the signal, (even it is an ET ship machine noise). Such a information would be very precious IMO. Please think about it. Regards, hamdi ucar"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: John Ford - #1 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:19:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:19:26 -0500 Subject: Re: John Ford - #1 Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:06:38 -0600 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: John Ford - #1 >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:38:29 -0600 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: John Ford - #1 >From: UFO Magazine in the UK -- http://www.ufomag.co.uk/ >THE JOHN FORD AFFAIR >As you read this, New York UFO activist John Ford is languishing >in jail awaiting trial for conspiracy. The circumstances of his >arrest and past involvement with an alleged UFO crash-retrieval >incident at Moriches Bay, Long Island, are profoundly >disturbing. >BACKGROUND >John Ford founded the Long Island UFO Network in 1985. He >investigated UFO sightings and alleged abductions; held public >meetings and sponsored conferences; leafleted and organised >demonstrations. He also produced the Long Island UFO Newsletter, >which was regularly received and enjoyed by enthusiasts around >the globe. >It was in that newsletter that he first wrote of an >extraordinary incident which alleged that a UFO had been shot >down in 1989 by American military forces over Moriches Bay in >Long Island. Hi Alfred. Thanks for posting the above. I have known John since the early 90's. He and I conversted often....I agree, John may have been a little ecentirc, but he was not a killer...nor would he have hired anyone else to do so... He was very protective of the activities of Long Island UFO Network (LIUFON) and the material his group had gathered. He would @ all of his work, video and audio as well as hard copy on paper... He worked very hard at what he did...along with several of his members. He had a close associate by the name of Brian Levins, who for some reason has mysteriously disappeared, at least from me. I haven't been able to fine him since May of 96. If you have any information on him, please advise me. REgards, Mike [] Licrash1.txt [] Licrash2.txt If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: John Ford - #2 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:24:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:24:12 -0500 Subject: Re: John Ford - #2 Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:13:30 -0600 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: John Ford - #2 >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:52:58 -0600 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: John Ford - #2 >>From UFO Magazine in the UK -- http://www.ufomag.co.uk/ >THE MORICHES BAY CRASH RETRIEVAL CASE >The Long Island UFO Network has publicly stated since October >1995, that a major UFO incident occurred over Moriches Bay off >the South Shore of Long Island. At the time, this body of water >and its adjoining communities were experiencing the highest >volume of UFO activity reported in Suffolk County. >Its founder, John Ford, maintains that the United States >Government, through the actions of its armed forces and >intelligence community, intercepted and retrieved an alien >spacecraft from Moriches Bay on 28 September 1989. He also >claimed the action was a carefully planned and executed >operation meticulously formulated some six months in advance. >The purpose of this action was to bring down an alien >spacecraft, described as a triangular wedge-shaped craft >measuring some 574ft across at its widest point. This was to >enable the United States to retrieve its technology and >propulsion drive system. >A STEP BACK IN TIME >Beginning in 1982, the counties of Orange, Putnam, Rockland, >Duchess and Westchester in this up-state region were inundated >with some 5,000 reports of large boomerang-shaped flying >objects. >Some of the early 1983 reports recorded low altitude >observations made both at night and by day. One object 'buzzed' >hundreds of witnesses over major parks and highways. Thanks Alfred.... I appeciate the early history of The Long Island area, in regard to UFOs... I have another file or to to attatch. I hope they can serve some purpose.... REgards, Mike If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 When SETI gets an ET signal! From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:25:20 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:27:45 -0500 Subject: When SETI gets an ET signal! Let's say that SETI discovers a steady, pulsing, or intermittent repeated signal, that SETI scientists claim is evidently from an intelligent civilization in outer space. The electro-magnetic signal (radio), won't be a voice in English saying, "Glad you located us". The signal will need interpretation. If SETI announces the discovery of the signal to mainstream science, what will happen? The acceptance that the signal is from an intelligent extraterrestrial civilization will require study by mainstream science. The struggle to submit signal evidence will be similar to Ufologists claiming that ET's are trespassing our airspace, which has not been accpeted. Ufologists have eyewitness testimony from aeronautical engineers, pilots, and astronauts, plus photos, video-tapes, documented radar reports, and samples of glazed earth from alleged landing sites as evidence that craft, which cannot be duplicated by earthlings, are trespassing our airspace. Such evidence is not accepted bccause mainstream science will accept only two things as evidence, a genuine artifact or an extraterrestrial being, period. Any ten-year-old child will know that what science demands as substantive evidence, is not evidence, but proof. Can you picture the headlines? -- "SETI Announces Discovery of ET Signal". The next day's headlines may read -- "Authenticity of SETI Signal is Questioned". Then SETI will have the struggle to see what science will accept as evidence. Will taped sounds and lines on viewing screens prove ET contact to mainstream science? SETI will have a tough struggle convincing science, if they ever do get a signal. It may take 50 years of discussion, as evidence submitted by Ufology has taken 50 years and it still is not accepted. ~~~~~Get BREAKING news plus UFO/ET news - NOW - click on "What's
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 20:27:05 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:26:02 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:08:06 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >>From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:19:58 -0700 (MST) >>Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:08:25 -0500 >>Subject: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >Previously, Doc offered: >>The purpose of SETI, as I understand it, is to determine if >>extraterrestrial intelligent life EXISTS. ><snip> >>Manufactured craft with capabilities that can not be >>demonstrated by anything made on our planet, are trespassing our >>airspace. This is fact. ><snip> >>SETI is electromagnetically searching for proof that >>extraterrestrial intelligent life EXISTS. Reliance on SETI for >>such proof, in my opinion, negates and ridicules all the >>evidence collected showing intelligent species, not of this >>planet, are visiting this planet. >>Radio astronomy is not useless for exploring our universe, but >>SETI is a joke, a waste of time, money, and talent, period. >Well, Doc, how can anyone argue with a statement that ends with >both the word "period" and the actual symbol (.)? >Just joking. >I do agree that there is ample evidence of alien visitation that >isn't being explored enough with the resources already at hand. >I also agree that enough funding isn't being allocated for such >study. >But to give up SETI on the grounds that "they're already among >us" is to eroneously assume that the extraterrestrials visiting >us are the same as the ones that might attempt to contact us >from afar via SETI. With all the millions of star systems in the >universe, what would the likelyhood be for that, eh? I mean, >just what are the odds that we've been visited by the ONLY >aliens that exist in the universe and that they, somehow, in all >this expanse of space found us but don't want to stop long >enough to say "hello"? >They are awfully elusive, don't you think? If they're not gonna >stop to chat, then I say let's look for friendlier neighbors >elsewhere. >To do that, we need SETI. >No offense, but saying that we don't need SETI to assist in the >exploration of our surroundings is like saying that we really >don't need to hear since we can see; or that we really don't >need to smell since we can taste. >Would you give up any of your senses? Not likely. You need them >all to get a complete picture of, and to communicate with, the >world around you. Claiming that SETI has just one purpose isn't >really fair when you consider the larger picture. >Just like sight, language, hearing, touch and smell, SETI is >just one of the many ways in which we are attempting to >interpret the universe around us. >Period (.) >Later, >Roger Evans =========================================> Roger, Doc and List; Say the nearest habitable planet is 25 light years away. SETI is _listening_. I mean think about this for a moment. Has anyone considered the possibility that "THEY" are also listening? With everybody "listening" nobody may be transmitting. And even if "they" were transmitting, it would take 50 years for "them" to get a reply, assuming they were even aimed at our part of the sky at the time we transmitted. But let's assume everything worked out perfectly and we answered with our own "HELLO!" It would be 75 years before we got their response and 100 years before they got our response. Uh, EXCUSE ME BUT, Uh My name is uh, Eugene!" In another hundred years we will (God willing and the comet don't hit) probably be among our own solar system's planets and moons. It will be very likely that we will be able to travel among the stars of our own galaxy at least at sublight speeds and by then, we might find out that we really don't wanna meet these guys beCAUS in one of their "pictures" we were able to clearly see a copy of a book entitled, "How to serve aliens without overcooking the meat." And the picture on the front cover showed something that looked a lot like US! AND, to be able to generate a signal, a "WOW" signal strong enough to punch thru the noise takes a level of technology that we do not have. Perhaps other cultures developed means of transportation at higher than sub light.... perhaps a culture is able to travel by warping space.... or some other equally magnificent way to get here from there. And just maybe, they too, have come to the realization that before they expose themselves unprotected, to these.... these, uncivilzed creatures, it would be advisable to place a few well marked "Dangerous Creatures, Enter at Own Risk" signs along the way. Why bother to key the mike when all they have to do is just come out for a Sunday ride out here in the slums to see what the hell all the racket is about. And if they are smart, they'll stay the hell away beCAUS we would probably shoot first and ask questions later. What a story that would make. Remember Rennie in 'The Day The Earth Stood Still'? We damned near blew him away. And he had a cure for the big C in that water pistol he was holding. Our and other "civilized" countries are very likely now developing or _have_ already developed weapons of Alien destruction. I'll bet the farm that we can and already have, taken pot shots at the pasty little guys with the big eyes. Wouldn't surprised me in the least. With all due respect. Any race worthy of intellect and advanced enough to travel space, the "final dimension", would most likely want to either hide from us or do exactly what they are doing now... do not fold, bend, staple or mutilate (except for cattle) unless they are all out cold first. Face it folks, we are _dangerous_ people! Point, aim and shoot often has nothing to do with SETI's antenna farms... it means, "DUCK!" if you are an Alien. The very first thing we would likely do if 'They' landed in Sedona or the Bronx, is figure their weapons capability and strategize how to counter it. Then we would likely try really hard to get _them_ to give _us_ some of that technology before some other country had a chance to borrow it first. Think about it guys. Here we are a fat, dumb and scientifically challenged race of maroons with guns in both our hands and we want more guns and more weapons. For all we know, the entire human race may be one big pain in the galactic ass, one big boil on the ass of the universe. We may be perceived as the integration of billions and billions of Sadams' all rolled into one people. Come to think on it, were I a 'Them', I would tranquilize first, and take later. And, I would be laughing up my sleeve at these foolish little hair balls wanting a piece of the galaxy. Right. And.... the check is in the mail and "Don't worry sweetheart, I'm sterile." Sorry List, but the truth is simply that we are a very dangerous bunch a guys here on planet Five. A really dangerous bunch worthty of staying away from and/or avoiding until we ... 1) Blow ourselves of the face of Five 2) Ruin it so that NOBODY can live here 3) Blow away anybody that comes close 4) But steal their technology first! 5) _or_ best of all, learn how to be what we ourselves define as being HUMAN and HUMANE. Now that's a very tall order from where I sit. Very tall.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 20:30:31 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:37:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:57:16 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:40:21 EST >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:31:27 -0800 >>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >>>Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>>>To: Roger R. Prokic <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>>>From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> >>>>Date: Mon 23 Nov, 1998 14:53 >>>>This page at Malin Space Science Systems has a movie that shows >>>>the Mars Descent Imager Entry, Descent & Landing test results >>>>for the Mars Polar Lander. >>>>http://www.msss.com/stuff/edl4/ >>>>I wonder if this could be another sign for CAUS. >>>>Roger R. Prokic >>>>Telecom Design Lead >>>>Mars Surveyor Program >>>>Lockheed Martin Astronautics >>>>Denver, Colorado USA >>>>-=[ sent from a 3Com Palm III & Multimail Pro v2.11b ]=- >>>Dear Roger: >>>All I see is a clumsily animated grey alien 'waving' at me in >>>front of what looks like a radar dish. >>>Is that the joke? >>>- Larry Hatch >>>= = = = >>Larry and List: >>Whew! I dunno about yous guys but I started waving to the >>little bastard just as soon as the image started to load. And >>the strangest and most wondeful miracle occurred..... >>HE WAVED BACK! >>Jim Mortellaro, AKA >>Dr. Gesundt, Canal Street UFO and Fresh Wine Merchants >Dear Jim: >I'm still confused ( befuddled? ) >What does the waving grey alien have to do with Malin Space >Sciences? Was this image actually on their website? >- LH Larry.... all I can say is go see it. There is this little alien that pops up and waves at you. Now ask me when, where, why and how. Damned if I have a clue! You just have to see it yourself to believe it.... and yes, it is a joke I hope and pray, because the last one of these little bastards that I saw wasn't waving.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:02:31 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:28:46 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >From: Greg St Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:18:34 EST >Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:00:32 -0500 >Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House Previously, I had offered: >>I mean, just what are the odds that we've been visited by the ONLY >>aliens that exist in the universe and that they, somehow, in all >>this expanse of space found us but don't want to stop long >>enough to say "hello"? >>They are awfully elusive, don't you think? If they're not gonna >>stop to chat, then I say let's look for friendlier neighbors >>elsewhere. For that we need SETI. Greg's responded by pointing out this posting: >>GUNBOATS FIRE AT UFOs OFF THE COAST OF SRI LANKA " >>On Wednesday night, November 18, 1998, naval gunboats opened >>fire on UFOs at sea off Point Pedro, on the northern shore of >>Sri Lanka, an island nation adjacent to India." >Who are the unfriendly neighbors, Roger? I understand your point. However, there isn't a history of the general public shooting at UFOs on a regular basis or getting even close enough for a moment of real Earthly agression (Dr. Reed not withstanding!). On the contrary, reported UFO visitations seem to reflect either a timidness on the part of the visiting alien(s) or an out right threat as in the case of abductions and the like. More to the point, I think you'll agree that the case you mention, assuming they really were firing on alien craft, is the exception and not the rule regarding UFO/human interaction. Moving on, I offered: >>No offense, but saying that we don't need SETI to assist in the >>exploration of our surroundings is like saying that we really >>don't need to hear since we can see; or that we really don't >>need to smell since we can taste. Greg responded: >SETI isn't exploring our surroundings...they aren't interested in >quasars and nebulas and the like. They want alien signals that >they aren't going to get. When was the last time a SETI researcher >documented a new comet, or new galaxy, or black hole? No offense, Greg. But that's like asking when was the last time a Fireman performed a quadruple bypass. When I say that SETI is exploring our surroundings, I don't mean to imply that they are looking for physical anomalies. Blind people explore their surroundings all the time using their ears. SETI is very much doing the same. As for your prediction that they will never receive a signal, I wish I had that kind of precognition. I'd be at the race track every day. Continuing, I opined: >>Would you give up any of your senses? Not likely. You need them >>all to get a complete picture of, and to communicate with, the >>world around you. Claiming that SETI has just one purpose isn't >>really fair when you consider the larger picture. Greg offered: >In my opinion, SETI has given up a sense already...common sense. >Have they ever defined the threshold by which they can declare a >signal genuinely extraterrestrial? If the amount of evidence now >present, even if it IS only "anecdotal" (which it isn't) isn't >enough to indicate an unknown phenomena here on this planet, >what makes SETI folks think they can do better, regardless of >what they get for a signal? <snip> I don't think that any person associated with SETI would ever claim that they can do better than terrestrial UFO researchers. There's no "us against them" mentality among SETI members that I'm aware of. SETI is merely an addition tool in the search for alien life; SETI is not designed to be the final word or the definitive solution. I'm sure that some UFO researchers are justifiably miffed that SETI continues to get funding while terrestrial based research languishes in poverty. To me this is unfare also. But to pull the plug on SETI out of jealousy over funding is petty. $100 millions is peanuts and everyone knows it. Movies come out of Hollywood by the dozens spending that kind of money and no one could care less. Ken Starr as spent almost half that much in just over a year or so for something far less noble. So what's thirty years? The moment a viable signal is detected, the price tag will be worth it. If that moment never comes, so what? It's better to try if the mechanism is available, which it is. The problem isn't how much SETI costs. The problem is how much funding is denied for terrestrial based UFO research. If that funding matched SETI's, no one would be complaining. Take care,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:37:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:30:54 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:10:13 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: SETI Scientists Petition White House Larry, >For the life of me, I cannot understand some of the anti-SETI >messages recently. Then I suggest you read the posts more carefully and try to understand the situation. Any 30 years $100-million flopped project supported by mainstream science on the hypothesis of extra-terrestrial life must be questioned by people involved in a 50 years $0.00 research who came up with evidence - people who are still laughed at by the same SOBs who support the fore-mentioned project. >If the UFO people think the SETI people are a bit odd, what do >you suppose they think of us? _That_ is a good question. What is the position of SETI people towards ufology? May I mention that NASA is one of its main supporter? What is the position of H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., Executive Director of The SETI League on the subject of UFOs in general, and of UFO history in particular? Can SETI make an educated statement on the subject of UFOs? Is SETI far-sighted or is SETI far-sighted? >_If_, the SETI efforts get one credible peep out of the cosmos, >one verifiable signal from some obviously intelligent source, >it would bolster the UFO/ET argument like no other single fact >acceptable to present-day mainstream science. I hope SETI keeps on being a flop. Why? Because any success would give the same SOBs more un-earned respectability and more un-earned credibility. The people from SETI are, in my opinion, on the OTHER side of the fence: the side of mainstream science, which has deliberately and malevolently kept ufology in a ghetto. >There are millions, perhaps billions of people on Earth who >still think that mankind is the only intelligent species in the >universe. Many of these seem to take it as some sort of >religious tenet, even though no sensible religion would take >such a stupid position. >I am reminded of competing religions with very similar beliefs, >.. endlessly warring .. only to the benefit of their worst >enemies. >I wish the SETI people every success, and of course the UFO >people the very same if not more. SETI, as ufology and most things in this world, is a matter of money. The amount of effort involved is generally proportional to the amount of money to be made. And religion, BTW, does not escape this profit principle. When it's not about money, it's about power. I am not talking about true humanitarians here who inevitably logout anonymous. Hence, let's not be surprised at the scientific devotion towards extra-terrestrial life when we are talking of $multi-millions. I will be on the side of SETI the day mainstream science becomes less far-sighted and more far-sighted and destroys the wall it has raised around ufology. Of course, this can only be done when mucho dollars come this way.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: ETI Scientists Petition White House From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:46:15 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:33:43 -0500 Subject: Re: ETI Scientists Petition White House >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:10:13 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: SETI Scientists Petition White House Larry, you wrote: >For the life of me, I cannot understand some of the anti-SETI >messages recently. That's okay, perhaps a bit more information will help you to see the light. >If the UFO people think the SETI people are a bit odd, what do >you suppose they think of us? I don't have to suppose. SETI people can often be seen on TV trashing ufology. Their opinion of ufologists is quite clear. >_If_, the SETI efforts get one credible peep out of the cosmos, >one verifiable signal from some obviously intelligent source, >it would bolster the UFO/ET argument like no other single fact >acceptable to present-day mainstream science. Please define a "credible peep". If all the evidence garnered by ufologists over the years doesn't qualify in the eyes of mainstream science as credible, then SETI hasn't got a prayer. You tell me what they can come up with that will interest science, and that can't be explained away by some eager debunker. They can't even define what they expect to find, let alone prove it to be extraterrestrial. At least ufologists already have something to attempt to explain. The phenomena already exists, putting ufology way ahead of the competition. By the way, the UFO/ET argument doesn't need bolstering when it's evidence is viewed fairly and open mindedly, without altering the facts to arrive at less threatening conclusions. >There are millions, perhaps billions of people on Earth who >still think that mankind is the only intelligent species in the >universe. Many of these seem to take it as some sort of >religious tenet, even though no sensible religion would take >such a stupid position. How exactly do you determine which religions are "sensible"? Each religion is held near and dear to the hearts of those who follow them. Your statement is insensitive and insulting. How many people in the history of the world have died due to religious differences? I suppose your religion is a sensible one, naturally. >I am reminded of competing religions with very similar beliefs, >.. endlessly warring .. only to the benefit of their worst >enemies. Ufology and SETI are not similar. Ufology has _some_ evidence to support it's claims, while SETI hasn't even reached the point where claims can be made. If they are competing, then ufology has a distinct head start.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: UFO UpDate: John Ford - #1 From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 20:02:07 PST Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:44:06 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: John Ford - #1 >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:38:29 -0600 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: John Ford - #1 >From: UFO Magazine in the UK -- http://www.ufomag.co.uk/ >THE JOHN FORD AFFAIR >As you read this, New York UFO activist John Ford is languishing >in jail awaiting trial for conspiracy. The circumstances of his >arrest and past involvement with an alleged UFO crash-retrieval >incident at Moriches Bay, Long Island, are profoundly >disturbing. <snip> >Almost a year earlier, Ford had confided to close friends and >associates that he was convinced he was the victim of a >deliberate plot to harass him. He went so far as to claim that >the plot might entail his penultimate murder. <snip> Alfred, How many 'ultimate' lives does he have . . . ? Regards, Leanne ];-)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:07:07 +0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:55:21 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:22:23 +0100 (MET) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:17:45 -0000 >>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >>>Date: 25 November 1998 11:02 >>Well actually, you can now hear about the THIRD example on >>non-existent grounds! >>After my recent and second succesful (people enjoyed the >>programme, if the emails are anything to go by!!) appearance on >>Jeff Rense "Sightings" radio show the UASR people wrote an >>email, generally circulated, to him demanding that I be banned >>from future shows for presenting a number of uncomfortable facts >>about the Belgian UFO flap of 1989/90. These comments were fully >>checked by me and are checkable by others. >Hi Tim, >I have watched your comments about the Belgian flap being >critisized on UASR as I was one of those who did the criticism. >I don't want to go on debating on the whole Belgian flap again >as I did so extensively on this list about a year ago. Except >one thing, for your statement that the radar systems were faulty >there exists no evidence whatsoever. >Another thing is that UASR thinks it has the authority to ban >postings from its list that contain information or opinions they >don't like. Of course every moderator has the freedom to censor >his list the way he wants. But it contradicts the principles >that UASR claims it stands for, Alien and Space _Research_. >Research can only be helped by giving everyone the right to vent >his theories and opinions, regardless of the opinions of the >moderator, as long as standards of basic human civility are >respected. By banning Gersten and telling Rense what to do they >are out of line. Henny and List, This is true. Though the moderators have every right to withhold any information that is not compatible with their own views, don't they owe it to us keen UFO researchers to provide anything that comes their way, compatible or not? They can always post an "I don't follow these views.." message, and condemn it to death, but then we, as fellow intelligent individuals, can make up our own minds. If they really do care about Alien and Space Research, then the aim with the List should be to provide the information for the 'experts' and the experienced researchers to analyse. Perhaps censorship is too strong a word, and theoretically they have every right not to post Mr Gersten's views, but for the good of progress in ufology, don't they have the responsibility to post it? Editorial discretion? This list is not some newspaper rag designed to target the minds of the feeble sheep who read it, it should be an uninhibited forum for discussing ufology, no matter what you believe.. The views of the moderators may not be compatible with my own views, but I won't leave the list (therefore applying my own editorial discretion) just because we don't see eye to eye. Cheers with Tolerance
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Alfred's Odd Ode #282 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 04:49:46 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:58:29 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #282 Apology to MW #282 (For November 27, 1998) Think what you want, friend, regarding Abduction. A nest full of liars, mistaken and cursed? Consider them making a play for your dollar, not worthy your notice -- revolting, or worse? Then make them a scapegoat, or make them a clown; make them embarrassed to suffer your frown! Use them, abuse them -- assign yellow stars, or label them bar flies from Venus or Mars! Do what you will and stay comfy and safe. Lie to your 'self', and pretend you are brave! Treat with derision this hapless *minority*, but cling to *fraternities*, and haughty sororities. Cling to your bibles, your tracts or epistles, but walk past your graveyards, while _yearning_ to whistle. Laugh while you _can_, you _shameless_ elite, you stuttering _boneheads_ -- you _artless_ effete! We're an atom in an ocean! Who's to say what drifts our way on the currents so indifferent to the games that we might play? We're a grain upon the beach! Who pretends to be aware of when it is that we're washed out by what had put us there? We're a tiny larval bit of life that strains for truth and sentience. We're saints, but psychopathic; we're seers without conscience. We're all the things we'd hate to be and carry just a smidgen of the grace in art to make us free that's cloaked, and masked, or hidden. When you laugh at the afflicted, but you put them in your shows, you make dishonest dollars while you thumb your upturned nose! You wallow in your disrespect; you frolic for the 'man'; you caper for his pennies, and pretend you understand. With credence to the party line you give your blind support to detractors from progression -- so we take it in the shorts! There is _no_ investigation when maintained that it's unneeded! No one does the looking that entreats and begs beleaguered! No one has the courage 'cause they _know_ it's not rewarded. Ford _knows_ *that* kind of courage is discouraged -- MAIMED, and thwarted! A few of us you tolerate to give your bull shit added weight, and likely that we're strung along until disaster's proud and strong. . . We should have been more strident; we should have made commands (perhaps elected people who would make the harsh demands)! We could have saved more money -- brought our population down. We could have cleaned our rivers -- put our wires underground. We could have told our kids the _truth_ in schools of trust and light! We could have made the effort to get Ready, Real -- Right! But we maintained the status quo, we stayed the party line. We laughed at the abductees, and we wasted precious time! We snickered up appointed sleeves while millions suffered BLIND! We spun at temples fingers while abductees lost their minds. They're given harmful counsel, it happens all the time -- made thinking that it's _them_ gone mad, a travesty, a crime! So think what you will, Phil -- regarding abduction! Stay the old course of your _mad_ reproduction! Forget you know _nothing_; forget _you're_ the fake! Pretend your foundations don't crumble and break! Forget that the saucers still fly in your skies; forget the abducted, and pretend that their cries are musings of idiots, cretinous loons that scratch at your wallet then howl at the moon. It's you, not abductees, out to lunch here today! It is YOU, and not them, sopped in naivete! YOU are the cause of their pitiful nescience! It's _you_ at the core of our sad lack of conscience! Subject to laughter, enduring derision, they're TRAPPED on the fringes of _your_ lack of vision! Lehmberg@snowhill.com A salute to John V. and his genuine courage. Let's walk with him, then, and so _be_ less discouraged. He's on the right path; he can carry the load. I'll walk with him gladly; he's a light on the road! Restore John Ford! Any institution that could be brought down by the legal and righteous efforts of just one man -- SHOULD be brought down! -- Explore the Alien View! Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ <Updated 12 September> John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at: 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. "Only thin, _very light_ envelopes with a return address will be accepted <g>." ~~~ $225.00 pledged -- $100.00 collected ~~~ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Kenny Young - New URL Location With Explanation From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:56:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:05:41 -0500 Subject: Kenny Young - New URL Location With Explanation Please be informed the the UFO Research: Cincinnati! URL location has changed. The new address is: http://home.fuse.net/ufo/ Please note that my e-mail address has also changed. It is now: ufo@fuse.net The site was taken offline last week to change the URL address from the previous "task" acronym, which had been used since December 15, 1996, to the more practical 'ufo' designation. The site began under the 'task' acronym for the organization Tri-State Advocates for Scientific Knowledge, which had dissolved in 1997 due to an honest difference of investigative focus by its members. The website, however, remained operational and was updated periodically. In late 1997, it was renamed UFO: CINCINNATI! and continued as a forum for UFO-related news and information. By May of 1998, the site was averaging between 2,000 to 4,000 visitors daily, according to internal Fuse 'transfer statistics.' The high traffic was thought to be a problem and resulted in the acquisition of additional web-space on TRIPOD. The additional space was to serve as a 'second site' to lessen the traffic volume, and files were converted from one location to another. Frequently slow TRIPOD, however, frustrated the readers with 'popups' that were widely viewed as an annoyance. Early this month I thought it was time for a change in both URL locations and uploading process. During the transition, I recognized some 'downtime' that I could utilize to 'tweak and fine-tune' the site. Little did I realize how much work was in store. Efforts to repair broken links, change color schemes and update data was compounded by some disorganized files and storage systems. It has taken more than one week to partially restore the site at the new URL address, and it should be completed by late next-week (please advise if any broken images or links are located). During this transition, my E-mail address has also been changed, resulting in lost E-mail. Any messages sent to the old address were cast into a void, and did not 'bounce' until the following week. This was unanticipated. Please forgive the mixup and let me know if I owe you a response. I am also appreciative of a number of phone calls to my home from some loyal visitors to the site - people who did not leave their telephone numbers that would have allowed me to call them back and explain. The site is now back up and running at the address listed below, and will continue to be a stable source of objective UFO-related news and information originating from Cincinnati, Ohio. Coming soon to the site will be the first in-depth interview with Larry Rogers and Curt Robinson, authors of the book "Iceman Down." Rogers and Robinson claim to have blown the lid off of the mystery behind the famous Roswell, New Mexico incident from 1947, and claim to have unearthed the TRUTH behind the legendary UFO/crash controversy. Please bookmark the new URL location and apply the new e-mail address in your 'address books.' Thanks for your patience Kenny Young UFO Research: Cincinnati! http://home.fuse.net/ufo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: Min Min Lights From: William Chalker <bchalker@ozemail.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:41:24 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:11:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Min Min Lights >Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:11:56 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Min Min Lights >Hi Errol, Hi All >I am trying to find out a little info on the Min Min lights in >Australia and I wondered if any of you learned people here could >point me in the right direction for some more information >please. Re: the enquiry about Min Min Lights. I have previously made extensive enquiries into this intriguing part of Australian folklore and also made the trek out there. Alas no sightings of the Light. I circulated back in 1983-84 a report I wrote on this puzzle. I quote from the article: "For more than a century, an extraordinary phenomenon steeped in folklore and genuine mystery has haunted a remote area centred near the town of Boulia, in South West Queensland.... "In Australia there have been many such reports through the years, dispersed widely around the country. However, the most enduring, and the best known manifestation of the Australian "ghost light" genre is the famous Min Min Light.... (I describe the origins of the Min Min Light tradition which go back to at least the 1880s; aboriginal connections (such as "debil - debil"), further historical sightings such as 1912 by Henry Lamond; a classic sighting in 1981 by Detective Sergeant Lyall Booth of the Police Stock Investigation Squad which suggests 2 possible explanations for the Light based on the Novaya Zemlya effect and a "light ball"produced by a swarm of luminescent insects; further examples of Australian "ghost lights" at Ovens River, Victora around 1838, Goulburn in 1878, Natte Yallock, Victoria in the 1860s, 1911 and 1913, Garah, NSW, in 1972, Bega area in 1974; near Tennant Creek in 1979; I address possible explanations ranging from misidentifications, unknown natural phenomena etc) In my 1983-84 paper I concluded: "The Min Min Light is many things. First and most paramount, is that it is and perhaps always will be, an enduring part of Australian folklore. The explanation for the light lies in a number of areas, particularly amongst a range of unusual natural phenomena. For example, it has been caused by luminescent insects and long distance mirage effects. It has also been many other things over the years. There is no one unique explanation for the Min Min Light. "Attempts to explain the light, even if successful, will not harm the legend that is the Min Min Light. Instead, if the mystery is resolved as fascinatining examples of natural phenomena, the locality of the Min Min Light's hauntings, may simply translate into a site of enduring significance, as manifestations of marvellous natural phenomena and attendant folklore. While the mystery may wane somewhat, the power and complexity of nature may be enhanced. "The Min Min Light presents a challenge. We have a wealth of antecdotal accounts describing extraordinary phenomena. If more detailed accounts are forthcoming, some better answers may be possible. The long term nature of the history of the light's presence in the Boulia area represents a further real challenge. If a pattern of appearance can be determined and the lights themselves regularly viewed, we could be provided with a rare chance to do some real science in a controversial area, and a great opportunity to preserve and enrich a wonderful folklore." The late Maureen Kozicka self published a nice book on the subject in 1994, entitled "The Mystery of the Min Min Light". I trust this assists the enquiry on the Min Min Light.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: Last Reminder about Crop Circle Lecture From: David Pengilly - UFO*BC <david_pengilly@dccnet.com> Date: 27 Nov 1998 05:53:43 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:15:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Last Reminder about Crop Circle Lecture There are still tickets left! Bring family and friends! Do your X-Mas shopping at the same time! 7:30 PM, Saturday, 28 - November - 1998 Vancouver Planetarium 1100 Chestnut Street, Vancouver Michael Glickman showing slides of this year's best formations! Chad Deetken talking about the Vanderhoof, BC case! Crop Circle Calendars for Sale! Crop Circle t-shirts for sale! UFO*BC Magazine Subscriptions for sale! *********************************************************** If you do not want to receive these notices, please reply with your e-mail address and I will gladly remove your name from the list. Thank you. Dave Pengilly dave@ufobc.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> Date: Fri 27 Nov, 1998 8:02 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:17:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:31:27 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>To: Roger R. Prokic <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> >>Date: Mon 23 Nov, 1998 14:53 >>This page at Malin Space Science Systems has a movie that shows >>the Mars Descent Imager Entry, Descent & Landing test results >>for the Mars Polar Lander. >>http://www.msss.com/stuff/edl4/ >>I wonder if this could be another sign for CAUS. >>Roger R. Prokic >>Telecom Design Lead >>Mars Surveyor Program >>Lockheed Martin Astronautics >>Denver, Colorado USA >>-=[ sent from a 3Com Palm III & Multimail Pro v2.11b ]=- >Dear Roger: >All I see is a clumsily animated grey alien 'waving' at me in >front of what looks like a radar dish. >Is that the joke? Larry, I think it's a goof on the many believers of Hoagland's outlandish "religion" of the Face on Mars. Note Mike Malin made the instruments that showed us all how silly Hoagland really is. Roger R. Prokic Telecom Design Lead Mars Surveyor Program Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:34:42 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:38:52 -0500 Subject: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images Hi List and all - Russ Estes has conducted a number of tests on the memo, letter, TWX, telex seen in General Ramey's hand. Estes used a professional video camera that cost about $50,000 originally, a $7000 macro lens, and about $50,000 worth of computer equipment. He used Adobe Photoshop 4.0 as software. He also had it flat scanned at 9000 dpi which created a file of about 1.5 gigabits. In other words, he used the best equipment available for the imagining. He also used a microscope to examine the memo. He, and others used magnifying glasses, jewelers' loops, and their bare eyes. They used every and all techniques to look at the memo General Ramey held (and yes, they noticed that he had a ragged thumb nail that could mean he bites his nails or that he had broken it). According to Estes, the words lengths were visible but the individual letters were open to interpretation. He said that it looked to him as if it was memo was in all caps. He said the only word that he could be positive about was "THE". He also believed that he could see the letters ELA but couldn't tell if the first images in that string was quotation marks or other letters that couldn't be read. He also said that he saw the word "Confidential" stamped at the top of the memo and that there was a smear near Ramey's thumb that could be seen as an old style telephone. Estes used the best equipment and software available to examine the memo seen on the 16 x 20 print and said that he could not see much that was not open to interpretation on the memo. It was, to him, "faces in the clouds". In other words, the interpretation put on the memo was based on what the viewer wanted to see. That has been borne out here, as others who have examined the print have provided us with some other interpretations. Estes said that he was disappointed that the images couldn't be resolved to the point where the words were readable rather than interpreted by those doing the examination. Estes' examination simply confirmed the statements made by Dr. Richard Haines who undertook an examination of the memo about five years ago. Dr. Haines said that he couldn't read much other than a few scattered letters. It will be interesting to see what others see when they complete their examinations of the memo. We all must be careful that we don't see what we want to see in the memo.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Christophe Meessen <meessen@cppm.in2p3.fr> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:02:15 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:43:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:49:47 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >The announced discovery of a massive planet orbiting the binary >star Gliese 86 (or HD 13445) will be of particular interest to >those who are familiar with the famous star map reproduced by >Betty Hill which was was shown to her by E.T. beings aboard a >UFO. Marjorie Fish identified all of the stars in this star map >and the whole story was written up by Terry Dickinson in a very >controversial but very convincing article in Astronomy magazine >back in 1974. It identified the binary star Zeta Reticuli as >the E.T.'s home base. >Since I cannot find my copy of Terry's 1974 Astronomy article >and I had little success in finding this detailed star map on >the Internet, could someone tell me if Gliese 86 was one of the >stars (which included our Sun) that was connected by solid or >dashed lines? If so, could we conclude that the E.T.s from Zeta >Reticuli have also visited this planet orbiting around Gliese >86? I would strongly recommend reconsidering the Zeta Reticuli interpretation of Majorie Fish in light of the more recent studies of Joachm Koch who suggest this map corresponds to our own solar system. Joachim had very pertinent arguments to justify this conclusion. The circle in the center of the map has not been matched by M. Fisch and correspond our Sun according to Joachim's interpretation. The two big circle down right correspond to saturn and Jupiter that by a strange coincidence where effectively very close at the abduction date. I understood this happens every 18 years approximatly. I checked their position my self with a simulation program. Check your self by the tools provided at http://www.fourmilab.ch/solar/ Other planets position correspond quite closely to the map except that the date is not exactly the same. According to Joachim, the map correspond to one month before the abduction should have taken place. Another argument are the lines inside the two big circle that would correspond to our well know planet feature: the rings. These lines are not explained by Fisch's proposal. Last but not least, it is important to look at the context when the map was shown to Betty Hill. She asked where do they come from. He then asked what does she know from space and stars. She said not much, only our solar system. Then they showed her the map and asked here where the earth was. She couldn't answer. The map was then removed and she then was told that there was useless in trying to explain where they come from. So the point Joachim made was that if they asked where the earth was, it would mean the earth was visible on the map, and since she said she knew about our solar system, the map was shown to her because she might have recognise it. All these arguments and my own checking of the map correspondance with our own solar system configuration at the moment make me grant a high plausibility to Joachim's thesis. I'm sorry for Majorie Fisch. Sorry if this is old news to you, it might apparently still be new to some posters. It is suprising when people are looking for evidences so far away when they are just in front of our nose. It is just a matter of appropriate focusing apparently. ;-) Beside, this does not reduce the value of find new planets in other solar systems. Have a nice day. Best regards,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:42:21 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:47:16 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >From: Doc Barry Mauthority@webtv.net> >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:59:10 -0700 (MST) >Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:31:32 -0500 >Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House Previously, I had offered (in a more complete context than presented here): >>SETI is just one of the many ways in which we are attempting to >>interpret the universe around us. >> Doc countered: >SETI is _not_ using radio astronomy to interpret the universe, >period. They are using and monitoring electromagnetic signals >(radio) to find out if intelligent extraterrestrial life EXISTS, >period. Frankly, I'm mystified, period. Please point out where I ever wrote that SETI was using radio astronomy to interpret the universe. Of course they are monitoring electromagnetic radio signals because that's what WE Earthlings currently use to communicate. Any alien civilization advanced enough would recognize that. Logically, it would be easier for them to learn our "language" (RF) than for us to learn theirs. If RF is as basic and primative as we all agree it is, then that would certainly be the path of least resistance toward communication with our race. Moving on, Doc wisely pointed out: >To intelligent life that may be millions of years older than the >human race, electromagnetic signals (radio) may be much like our >generation using Indian blanket smoke signals for >communications. I couldn't agree more. But look at it this way: When explorers go into the wild to study and/or communicate with primative, tribal peoples, it's always the explorers that learn the tribal language first. Then, later, translators will attempt to 'teach' the primatives the English language, which is far more complex. Wouldn't it, therefore, seem logical that the more advanced aliens would do the same? If they're millions of years older (and wiser) then why would they take the path of greater resistance if they really wanted to communicate with us? Granted, RF may not be what they normally use. But they might recognize that it is what _we_ normally use, as simple as it might be. Also, Doc made this very good point: >If a signal is interpreted to have originated from 50 light >years away, meaning it left there in 1948, we could reply >immediately, and they would get our signal in 2048. And, in just >50 more years, if we received a reply, 2098, the existence of >intelligent extraterrestials could be shown, providing all >agreed on signal interpretation. Most of the universe is more >than 50 light years away from us. Again, I couldn't agree more. But you make the faulty assumption that any signal we get would _have_ to come from a planet or system in the far reaches of space 50 light years away. Why? Couldn't it just as easily come from a probe or alien craft in the near vicinity? Earlier, you made the very wise observation regarding intelligent life millions of years older than our own not likely using RF. Is it your assumption that such an advanced civilization would, ironicaly, have our current propulsion limitations? Certainly, if they are millions of years older than us, they stand a very great chance of having achieved high speed warp travel or the like. Such technology would put us "right around the corner" from _their_ point of view, but not ours. A high speed, RF probe would be a walk in the park for such a race. After all, we didn't send a man to Mars, we sent a probe first. Are we more clever than the aliens you refer to? I think not. In fact, you seem to either give the aliens in question too much credit or not enough. Either they're millions of years advanced enough to out grow RF type communication or they're too primitive to have conquered space/time limitations for a trip to our neck of the woods. Either they're too advanced to even bother responding to our primitive RF transmissions or they're not smart enough to deduce that RF is what we are expecting to hear back from them if they are interested in communicating with us. You really can't have it both ways. Finally, Doc offered: >Science insists that extraordinary claims require extraordinary >evidence, therefore eyewitness testimony, photos, radar reports, >video-tapes, samples of glazed earth from alleged landing sites, >are not considered as evidence. Science waits for one of two >substantive things as evidence -- a genuine artifact or an alien >-- which to non-scientists either would be considered proof, not >evidence. In addition, Serge Salvaille wrote: >>In my opinion SETI is a $100-million adventure based on a 1950 >>cheap b-zone sci-fi hypothesis. SETI got 30 years of research >>and came out empty-handed. The funny part is that its promoters >>still have credibility. Most scientists and researchers in the >>FOIA adventure on UFOs came out with their hands full but with >>_no_ credibility. >> Doc felt the same: >I agree with Serge. SETI is a joke, a waste of time, money, and >talent, period. I detect a little jealousy, here. Period. With no disrespect to $100 million, it's not very much money in the larger scheme of things. Bombers and oil refineries and wars and public housing cost just as much. Movies are made for that amount of money on a yearly basis, it would seem. Across thirty years? Please, give me a break. The real beef here isn't how much money SETI research gets or its lack of results (UFOlogy isn't exactly brimming with hard evidence). The beef is how little funding terrestrial based UFO research gets and the lack of respect it garnishes. Frankly, these things bother me just as much as it bothers you guys. But cutting off SETI funding won't bring respect to UFO research nor will it guarantee the transfer of SETI funding to terrestrial based research for UFOs. I believe there's room (and a need) for both SETI and terrestrial based research. A race as "blind" as we are can't possibly have too many eyes or ears. And one final thought: Who says that the RF signals we've sent out into space haven't already acted as a beacon for alien craft, thereby accounting for the vast influx of sightings and encounters you mentioned above? Or did all of these different exterrestrials just "happen" to stumble onto our needle in this very large haystack? Think about it. Best wishes, Roger Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:51:35 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:51:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:49:47 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:02:49 +0100 >>Subject: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>Source: >>http://www.eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-1998/pr-18-98.html >>Stig ><snip> >>Discovery of a heavy planet in orbit around "Gliese 86" >>Gliese 86 (also known as "HD 13445") is seen in the southern >>constellation Eridanus (The River). It is a bright, rather cool >>dwarf star, somewhat less massive than the Sun (about 0.79 solar >>mass). It is also intrinsically fainter than the Sun (about 0.4 >>solar luminosity). However, since it is quite nearby - about 35 >>light-years only - its apparent magnitude is comparatively >>bright and it is just at the limit of what can be seen with the >>unaided eye (mV= 6.12). ><snip> >>The inferred minimum mass for the planetary companion is 4.9 >>times the mass of planet Jupiter. The new planet is at a >>distance of only 0.11 AU (16.5 million km) from the star, i.e. >>just over one tenth of the Sun-Earth distance. The surface >>temperature on the planet is quite high, about 380 oC. >Hi Stig, Hi everyone, >The announced discovery of a massive planet orbiting the binary >star Gliese 86 (or HD 13445) will be of particular interest to >those who are familiar with the famous star map reproduced by >Betty Hill which was was shown to her by E.T. beings aboard a >UFO. Marjorie Fish identified all of the stars in this star map >and the whole story was written up by Terry Dickinson in a very >controversial but very convincing article in Astronomy magazine >back in 1974. It identified the binary star Zeta Reticuli as >the E.T.'s home base. >Except for an entry in The Extrasolar Planets Encyclopaedia >http://wwwusr.obspm.fr/planets/ >which was removed a few days later, this is the first time a >star from this E.T. star map has been found to have a planet >orbiting it. Anyone know the reason why the earlier "discovery" >of a planet orbiting one of the two Zeta Retuculi stars was >later removed from this comprehensive list? >Since I cannot find my copy of Terry's 1974 Astronomy article >and I had little success in finding this detailed star map on >the Internet, could someone tell me if Gliese 86 was one of the >stars (which included our Sun) that was connected by solid or >dashed lines? If so, could we conclude that the E.T.s from Zeta >Reticuli have also visited this planet orbiting around Gliese >86? >Nick Balaskas Dear Nick, List, et al... Unfortunately Gliese 86 was not on the Hill map. Betty Hill made two drawings, one of which had the stellar assignations and the other did not. Neither shows Gliese 86. This is from Fuller's book, "Incident at Exeter" Subtitled "The Interrupted Journey." However your post brought another major question to my mind. A question which has gone unanswered all these years. That is, has anyone theorized the type of planet these entities may occupy? Anthropologists and archeologists can paint a picture out of the fossil bones they find. There are a few expert physicians who can create an image of a deceased person just by studying the skull. I wonder if something similar can be done by studying alien anatomy merely from the drawings which abound literature as well as the web. These creatures (I refer to Grays) have short bodies, long and very slim legs and arms, large eyes, etc. These are descriptions about which we are all aware. I cannot for the life of me but wonder why some theorizing has not been done on these pohotos. Hello? Anybody out there with some theories?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: When SETI gets an ET signal! From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:37:28 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:55:46 -0500 Subject: Re: When SETI gets an ET signal! When SETI gets an ET signal! >From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:25:20 -0700 (MST) >Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:27:45 -0500 >Subject: When SETI gets an ET signal! Previously, Doc offered: >Let's say that SETI discovers a steady, pulsing, or intermittent >repeated signal, that SETI scientists claim is evidently from an >intelligent civilization in outer space. >The electro-magnetic signal (radio), won't be a voice in English >saying, "Glad you located us". The signal will need >interpretation. <snip> Not being argumentative, Doc. But says who? Think about it: On the one hand, they're smart enough to figure out our mode of communication (RF) but they can't figure out our primative language? How silly. Even if they're no more advanced than we are, translation would be the easiest hurdle they'd face; even easier if they've advanced beyond RF. Language is nothing more than a code. Codes are broken by reducing them to numerical references and finding a pattern. Our "code" is probably simple compared to theirs, especially if they are more advanced then we are. >If SETI announces the discovery of the signal to mainstream >science, what will happen? The acceptance that the signal is >from an intelligent extraterrestrial civilization will require >study by mainstream science. The struggle to submit signal >evidence will be similar to Ufologists claiming that ET's are >trespassing our airspace, which has not been accpeted. Not been accepted by whom? Ufologists accept it, so does most of the general public; the government denies it; science waits to see where its funding comes from via politics. And what makes you think that SETI hasn't already discovered a signal? As you pointed out, there is considerable reason to believe that SETI evidence would be hushed up and treated the same as other UFO evidence. Therefore, just because we haven't heard about a signal discovery doesn't mean it hasn't already happened. Unless you feel that all UFO's really ARE weather balloons, as the government is so fond of claiming. >Ufologists have eyewitness testimony from aeronautical >engineers, pilots, and astronauts, plus photos, video-tapes, >documented radar reports, and samples of glazed earth from >alleged landing sites as evidence that craft, which cannot be >duplicated by earthlings, are trespassing our airspace. Such >evidence is not accepted bccause mainstream science will accept >only two things as evidence, a genuine artifact or an >extraterrestrial being, period. >Any ten-year-old child will know that what science demands as >substantive evidence, is not evidence, but proof. <snip> No offense, Doc. But you are leaving out the primary motive for scientific research: Money. Very little, if any, science is carried out just for the sake of knowledge alone. If knowledge were that important, our schools wouldn't be starved for funding and teachers would have decent salaries. When SETI or the study of UFOs shows an immediate potential for a marketable technology, big business will mow down scientists in the frenzy to capitalize on this new found commodity. I'm not saying it isn't happening already, in secret. But I do believe that one has to take into account economics when trying to predict the future of UFO research. Besides, what corporation is really going to point out the location of the goose that laid their golden eggs? Regarding SETI, I feel that any predictions concerning a verified signal would just be guessing. Later,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:47:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:03:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:49:47 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:02:49 +0100 >>Subject: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>Source: >>http://www.eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-1998/pr-18-98.html >>Stig ><snip> >>Discovery of a heavy planet in orbit around "Gliese 86" >>Gliese 86 (also known as "HD 13445") is seen in the southern >>constellation Eridanus (The River). It is a bright, rather cool >>dwarf star, somewhat less massive than the Sun (about 0.79 solar >>mass). It is also intrinsically fainter than the Sun (about 0.4 >>solar luminosity). However, since it is quite nearby - about 35 >>light-years only - its apparent magnitude is comparatively >>bright and it is just at the limit of what can be seen with the >>unaided eye (mV= 6.12). ><snip> >>The inferred minimum mass for the planetary companion is 4.9 >>times the mass of planet Jupiter. The new planet is at a >>distance of only 0.11 AU (16.5 million km) from the star, i.e. >>just over one tenth of the Sun-Earth distance. The surface >>temperature on the planet is quite high, about 380 oC. >Hi Stig, Hi everyone, >The announced discovery of a massive planet orbiting the binary >star Gliese 86 (or HD 13445) will be of particular interest to >those who are familiar with the famous star map reproduced by >Betty Hill which was was shown to her by E.T. beings aboard a >UFO. Marjorie Fish identified all of the stars in this star map >and the whole story was written up by Terry Dickinson in a very >controversial but very convincing article in Astronomy magazine >back in 1974. It identified the binary star Zeta Reticuli as >the E.T.'s home base. >Except for an entry in The Extrasolar Planets Encyclopaedia >http://wwwusr.obspm.fr/planets/ >which was removed a few days later, this is the first time a >star from this E.T. star map has been found to have a planet >orbiting it. Anyone know the reason why the earlier "discovery" >of a planet orbiting one of the two Zeta Retuculi stars was >later removed from this comprehensive list? >Since I cannot find my copy of Terry's 1974 Astronomy article >and I had little success in finding this detailed star map on >the Internet, could someone tell me if Gliese 86 was one of the >stars (which included our Sun) that was connected by solid or >dashed lines? If so, could we conclude that the E.T.s from Zeta >Reticuli have also visited this planet orbiting around Gliese >86? >Nick Balaskas Yes, Gliese 86 is indeed one of the stars connected with lines in Marge Fish's 3D star map work based on Betty Hill's drawing done as a post hypnotic suggestion by Dr. Benjamin Simon, if and only if, she could remember it accurately. I still have some hundreds of copies of 'The Zeta Reticuli Incident' a beautiful full color 32 page booklet published by Astronomy Magazine by its then editor Terence Dickinson, now a member of the order of Canada and author of a number of outstanding books on Astronomy. The booklet includes Terry's original article and 9 more letters published in response to it, including 2 by the late Carl Sagan. There is a list of the 46 nearest sun-like stars. Copies of this collectors' item are available from me at 79 Pembroke Crescent, Fredericton, NB Canada E3B 2V1 for CAD$7. or in the USA at POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958 for US$5.00 Both prices include S and H. I should point out that the search techniques will only pick up relatively large planets. One that is 4.9 times the mass of Jupiter and with a surface temperature of 380 oC is not a very likely setting for beings like us. Of course there may be other smaller cooler planets in the same system. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:59:46 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:06:06 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House How about a plus minus table, viewed favoring the UFO experience. The time factor: SETI=Long UFO=Now The time factor 2: Seti=decades if not centuries UFO=Now (or at least, if another dimension... "our" now) Evidence: SETI= One "WOW" (I gave you that one) UFO= Oy veh, NOT AGAIN (roughly translated, "now") Data: SETI=One "WOW" UFO=Tons of data proving nothing except a smoking gun Personal Experience: SETI=nothing (I think I'll stop with my last "WOW") UFO=thousands of personal experiences from very credible folks proving the gun fired ammo Exchange of ideologies: SETI=None UFO=faint whispers ("Look and Learn") However I must add that were "WE" in control of the situation, our version of "Look and Learn" would be "Lock and Load!" Technology: SETI= uh.... er.... mmm... they got good radios UFO= If we could get our hands on it we'd really be dangerous, eh? (for Errol) Science: SETI=tons of communications science UFO=we wouldn't understand it if one landed in the desert Practical Science: SETI=we can listen at phenominal rates and frequencies real good UFO=we get to throw up a lot after an abduction Notice that the Aliens we experience never let us upchuck in one of their spacecraft? Huh? Ever noticed that? This statement proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they have more brains than we do. Having done a little volunteer law enforcement work as a communications specialist, I got to ride along with State Troopers in an effort to measure and analyse problems encountered with the radio and repeater systems in use. I can tell you that we have no control over perps barfing all over a State Police Cruiser and the effect on the car for weeks and weeks and weeks. Aliens are smart dudes alright. Definitley smart on that score at least.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:14:42 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:09:07 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:37:02 -0500 >Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:30:54 -0500 >Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House Previously Larry Hatch offered: >>For the life of me, I cannot understand some of the anti-SETI >>messages recently. Serge's rather rude response was: >Then I suggest you read the posts more carefully and try to >understand the situation. >Any 30 years $100-million flopped project supported by >mainstream science on the hypothesis of extra-terrestrial life >must be questioned by people involved in a 50 years $0.00 >research who came up with evidence - people who are still >laughed at by the same SOBs who support the fore-mentioned >project. Time out, Serge. You make a pretty strong accusation. Please give us names of any SETI supporters that laugh at terrestrial based UFO research. My money is on the bet that you can't. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that everyone I know that supports SETI also supports the investigation of UFO sightings and encounters. True, SETI has received the lion's share of the funding, but $100 million is squat for 30 years work. No one, including SETI members, is saying that terrestrial based UFO research doesn't deserve funding, also. The fact that UFO researchers don't get it is not SETI's fault. Your grudge is with the wrong people. Grow up. Moving on, Larry wisely offered: >>_If_, the SETI efforts get one credible peep out of the cosmos, >>one verifiable signal from some obviously intelligent source, >>it would bolster the UFO/ET argument like no other single fact >>acceptable to present-day mainstream science. Again, Serge let his true nature show: >I hope SETI keeps on being a flop. Why? Because any success >would give the same SOBs more un-earned respectability and more >un-earned credibility. The people from SETI are, in my opinion, >on the OTHER side of the fence: the side of mainstream science, >which has deliberately and malevolently kept ufology in a >ghetto. Whoa!!! Just what the hell is your agenda, here. You hope that SETI is a flop? You really hope that contact with an alien race is not achieved? Or do you feel that there's a race; i.e. "us against them" regarding SETI and UFO researchers? I personally don't care _who_ makes first contact and neither should you. I don't normally reduce myself to insults, but you are being just plain stupid. In fact, you went on to offer this incredible bit of wisdom: >Hence, let's not be surprised at the scientific devotion towards >extra-terrestrial life when we are talking of $multi-millions. >I will be on the side of SETI the day mainstream science becomes >less far-sighted and more far-sighted and destroys the wall it >has raised around ufology. Well, what can I say? If only you had any idea of the number of bricks you just laid with your obviously hate-filled statements. But I'm sure irony is lost on you. What a waste. Roger Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:10:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:14:38 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >From: Doc Barry Mauthority@webtv.net> >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:59:10 -0700 (MST) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >>From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:08:06 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >>>From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> >>>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:19:58 -0700 (MST) >>>Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:08:25 -0500 >>>Subject: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >Roger Evans wrote: >>SETI is just one of the many ways in which we are attempting to >>interpret the universe around us. >> >SETI is _not_ using radio astronomy to interpret the universe, >period. They are using and monitoring electromagnetic signals >(radio) to find out if intelligent extraterrestrial life EXISTS, >period. >To intelligent life that may be millions of years older than the >human race, electromagnetic signals (radio) may be much like our >generation using Indian blanket smoke signals for >communications. >If a signal is interpreted to have originated from 50 light >years away, meaning it left there in 1948, we could reply >immediately, and they would get our signal in 2048. And, in just >50 more years, if we received a reply, 2098, the existence of >intelligent extraterrestials could be shown, providing all >agreed on signal interpretation. Most of the universe is more >than 50 light years away from us. >Science insists that extraordinary claims require extraordinary >evidence, therefore eyewitness testimony, photos, radar reports, >video-tapes, samples of glazed earth from alleged landing sites, >are not considered as evidence. Science waits for one of two >substantive things as evidence -- a genuine artifact or an alien >-- which to non-scientists either would be considered proof, not >evidence. >Serge Salvaille wrote: >>In my opinion SETI is a $100-million adventure based on a 1950 >>cheap b-zone sci-fi hypothesis. SETI got 30 years of research >>and came out empty-handed. The funny part is that its promoters >>still have credibility. Most scientists and researchers in the >>FOIA adventure on UFOs came out with their hands full but with >>_no_ credibility. >> >I agree with Serge. SETI is a joke, a waste of time, money, and >talent, period. == Doc Barr Right on. SETI really stands for Silly Effort To Investigate. The SETI cultists assume radio is the ultimate in communication, even though any study of technological progress indicates that progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable way. The future is NOT an extrapolation of the past. Furthermore, the vaunted Drake equation assumes that there is no interstellar travel and no colonization or migration even though these are the 2 primary means for distribution of civilizations on Earth. They know nothing about the engineering work that has been done showing that trips to nearby stars are feasible with round trip times shorter than the average lifespan without violating any of the laws of physics. Here again one has to expect that any civilization, say no more than 1000 years more advanced than we are, knows travel technology about which we know nothing. Of course, nuclear fusion rockets could also get us to nearby stars... if we wanted to spend the money judging by the program I worked on at Aerojet General Nucleonics in 1962. Using the right isotopes in the right way, one can emit charged particles out the back end having 10million times as much energy per particle as they can get in a chemical rocket. For those who are upset by my use of the word cult, consider the attributes of a cult: Charismatic leadership (Sagan, Tartar, Drake etc); Strong dogma ( life out there using radio to try to connect with us; no colonization, no migration, no other means of communication, NO VISITS to Earth), and certainly a strong resistance to contrary views. Almost all SETI Cultists strongly attack ufology though they never reference the scientific work, but rather focus on tabloid nonsense. Sagan's most cited source about UFOs, in 'Demon Haunted World', is the tabloid 'Weekly World News'. He doesn't mention the Congressional Hearings of l968, nor the AAAS Sessions of l969, though he participated in both and Edited the Conference Proceedings for the latter. It is interesting indeed that NASA doesn't talk about radio telescope listening any more, but rather about finding planets, finding water on bodies within the solar system etc. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: 'Roswell Memo' Images On Friedman's New CD ROM From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:17:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:18:12 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Roswell Memo' Images On Friedman's New CD ROM >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:05:14 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: 'Roswell Memo' Images On Friedman's New CD ROM >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: 'Roswell Memo' Images On Friedman's New CD ROM >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:09:59 -0400 >>Announcement >>Because I have had many questions about the "Memo" being held in >>the hand of General Roger Ramey in a picture taken in his office >>on July 8, l947, by J. Bond Johnson, I have decided to make >>available for a nominal fee a CD ROM with a great deal of >>relevant information . My goal is to enlist the help of as many >>analysts as possible so that a concensus might be reached as to >>just what words are on the "memo". ><snip> >Stan.... I don't know you except by reputation, we've never met. >However I would like to take this opportunity to give you three >cheers... too bad the guys with the Dead Sea Scrolls aren't as >ungrudging as you gentlemen are. History might reveal more of >it's secrets were this so. Magnanimity is not the strong suit >of most players with the winning hand. Too bad. However...... >Hip hip three times and as many hoorays. >Jim Mortellaro Thanks much for the kind words. I really do believe that the more people working on the Ramey "memo" the more likely we can determine just what it says. I hope that by making available what should be the best data, namely high resolution scans of the negatives, we can get to a conclusion sooner. I am still curious as to whether the USAF, which, years ago, obtained a duplicate negative from UTA has run any recent checks. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 'Kairos' & 'WingMakers' From: Moderator, UFO UpDates _ Toronto Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:34:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:34:15 -0500 Subject: 'Kairos' & 'WingMakers' Jeff & Michael on Wednesday night's 'Sightings' program discussed the 'coming out' of the 'Kairos' website at: The-Word-Is-Truth.org and an another thought-provoker, 'WingMakers' at: www.wingmakers.com For some subscribers both these sites may be a lot to absorb,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Laurent Thiebaud" <haurrio@ifrance.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:54:37 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:23:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:49:47 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Hi Stig, Hi everyone, >The announced discovery of a massive planet orbiting the binary >star Gliese 86 (or HD 13445) will be of particular interest to >those who are familiar with the famous star map reproduced by >Betty Hill which was was shown to her by E.T. beings aboard a >UFO. Marjorie Fish identified all of the stars in this star map >and the whole story was written up by Terry Dickinson in a very >controversial but very convincing article in Astronomy magazine >back in 1974. It identified the binary star Zeta Reticuli as >the E.T.'s home base. >Except for an entry in The Extrasolar Planets Encyclopaedia >http://wwwusr.obspm.fr/planets/ >which was removed a few days later, this is the first time a >star from this E.T. star map has been found to have a planet >orbiting it. Anyone know the reason why the earlier "discovery" >of a planet orbiting one of the two Zeta Retuculi stars was >later removed from this comprehensive list? >Since I cannot find my copy of Terry's 1974 Astronomy article >and I had little success in finding this detailed star map on >the Internet, could someone tell me if Gliese 86 was one of the >stars (which included our Sun) that was connected by solid or >dashed lines? If so, could we conclude that the E.T.s from Zeta >Reticuli have also visited this planet orbiting around Gliese >86? >Nick Balaskas Hello I've checked in the book 'A La Recherche Des Ovnis' (J. Scornaux and C. Piens, published in 1976). The star is recured but no star's name. It's written that Reticuli is no far from alpha of Eridanus. Zeta Reticuli is far from 36 Light-years from the Sun
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Laura Lee Show E-News - November 28, 1998 From: Laura Lee Show - webmaster@lauralee.com Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:51:52 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:26:54 -0500 Subject: Laura Lee Show E-News - November 28, 1998 LAURA LEE E-NEWS Thanks for subscribing to Laura Lee E-News. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Laura Lee E-News is sent by subscription only. If you wish to unsubscribe go to: http://www.lauralee.com/cfdocs/laura/mailinglist/enduse.cfm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RADIO SHOW GUEST/TOPIC LINE UP - Saturday, November 28, 1998 By Laura Lee Charles Ginenthal Immanuel Velikovsky challenged Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, astronomy's findings on the age and stability of our solar system, archeology's time line for ancient dynasties and cities, even Freud on the cause of neurosis. For his trouble, Velikovsky was denounced widely, but not before gaining the interest of Einstein and other great minds of his day. Charles Ginenthal, long-time researcher and author on Velikovsky's life and work, tells us which of Velikovsky's many theories are still viable, and what recent scientific data may be confirming. James Gilliland Near drowning 20 years ago plunged Gilliland into a study of wisdom traditions, UFOs, encounters on the inner dimensions, and the healing of wayward souls. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JOIN US for our NEW WEEKDAY INTERNET ONLY SHOW FRIDAY, November 27, 1998 Paul O'Brien & Christine Payne-Towler The Esoteric Tradition behind Tarot Cards - a history from Babylonia to the secret life of Mary Magdalene. FOR INFORMATION on the internet only show Laura Lee Online: go to http://www.lauralee.com/talkspot.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ANSWERS TO FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS FOLLOW. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE LAURA LEE SHOW WEBSITE: http://www.lauralee.com/index.cfm REAL AUDIO ARCHIVES: Posted in full by Sunday Noon Pacific for the previous nights show. Now formatted in REAL AUDIO. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:01:11 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:20:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:34:42 EST >Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:38:52 -0500 >Subject: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images Previously, Kevin informed us: >Russ Estes has conducted a number of tests on the memo, letter, >TWX, telex seen in General Ramey's hand. Estes used a >professional video camera that cost about $50,000 originally, a >$7000 macro lens, and about $50,000 worth of computer equipment. >He used Adobe Photoshop 4.0 as software. He also had it flat >scanned at 9000 dpi which created a file of about 1.5 gigabits. >In other words, he used the best equipment available for the >imagining. <snip> >Estes' examination simply confirmed the statements made by Dr. >Richard Haines who undertook an examination of the memo about >five years ago. Dr. Haines said that he couldn't read much other >than a few scattered letters. >It will be interesting to see what others see when they complete >their examinations of the memo. We all must be careful that we >don't see what we want to see in the memo. Absolutely! In addition, it's important that we don't ignore anything that's obvious because it doesn't jive with what we've all come to expect. In reference to the process used to study the imagery, I'm curious why everyone is limiting themselves to the 16 x 20 prints; or for that matter, any kind of prints regardless of size. No matter how well they're produced, the amount of resolution achieved in a print is doodly-squat when compared to a scan taken off of the original negative. In addition, contrast problems such as loss of information in the shadow areas and highlights is avoided entirely. With the amount of scrutiny going on, I'd think this would be the ultimate image verification anyone could muster and is cheaper than pulling prints, which only adds another generation. Hell, forget the electronics. How about viewing the original negs under a microscope? The fact that it's a negative image won't change what's written on the memo. Even if the UT library won't release the negs, any portable microscope would suffice and could be carried to the library. A conclusion could be made in a few minutes to determine if further study was needed outside the library and in a lab. Are there problems with this scenario that I'm not aware of? Roger Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 27 Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:28:51 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:42:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:34:42 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: The 'Roswell Memo' Images >Hi List and all - >Russ Estes has conducted a number of tests on the memo, letter, >TWX, telex seen in General Ramey's hand. Estes used a >professional video camera that cost about $50,000 originally, a >$7000 macro lens, and about $50,000 worth of computer equipment. >He used Adobe Photoshop 4.0 as software. He also had it flat >scanned at 9000 dpi which created a file of about 1.5 gigabits. >In other words, he used the best equipment available for the >imagining. >He also used a microscope to examine the memo. He, and others >used magnifying glasses, jewelers' loops, and their bare eyes. >They used every and all techniques to look at the memo General >Ramey held (and yes, they noticed that he had a ragged thumb >nail that could mean he bites his nails or that he had broken >it). >According to Estes, the words lengths were visible but the >individual letters were open to interpretation. He said that it >looked to him as if it was memo was in all caps. He said the >only word that he could be positive about was "THE". >> <snip> >Estes' examination simply confirmed the statements made by Dr. >Richard Haines who undertook an examination of the memo about >five years ago. Dr. Haines said that he couldn't read much other >than a few scattered letters. >It will be interesting to see what others see when they complete >their examinations of the memo. We all must be careful that we >don't see what we want to see in the memo. >KRandle It seems that Kevin Randle has taken a leaf out of the US Government SOP manual: when any issue is raised about Roswell, just quickly announce that they have conducted a SOLO examination (usually by the CIA!) and "there was nothing there!" It seems rather curious that Kevin would not have joined with Stan Friedman and several other prominent Roswell researchers -- and even several outspoken skeptics -- in working closely with the volunteer but highly professional international RPIT (Roswell Photo Interpretation Team) in their quest for the truth re the Roswell Event. Perhaps it is because none of the RPIT investigators has any book to sell or any other vested interest in the outcome of their thorough Roswell Revisitation. James Bond Johnson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 98 16:43:23 PST Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:54:17 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:14:42 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: SETI Scientists Petition White House >>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:37:02 -0500 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:30:54 -0500 >>Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House Howdy, listfolk, >Previously Larry Hatch offered: >>>For the life of me, I cannot understand some of the anti-SETI >>>messages recently. >Serge's rather rude response was: >>Then I suggest you read the posts more carefully and try to >>understand the situation. >>Any 30 years $100-million flopped project supported by >>mainstream science on the hypothesis of extra-terrestrial life >>must be questioned by people involved in a 50 years $0.00 >>research who came up with evidence - people who are still >>laughed at by the same SOBs who support the fore-mentioned >>project. >Time out, Serge. >You make a pretty strong accusation. Please give us names of any >SETI supporters that laugh at terrestrial based UFO research. My >money is on the bet that you can't. In fact, I'd go so far as to >say that everyone I know that supports SETI also supports the >investigation of UFO sightings and encounters. True, SETI has >received the lion's share of the funding, but $100 million is >squat for 30 years work. No one, including SETI members, is >saying that terrestrial based UFO research doesn't deserve >funding, also. The fact that UFO researchers don't get it is not >SETI's fault. Your grudge is with the wrong people. Grow up. Wow. I am at a loss to understand any of the above paragraph. I've read a reasonable amount of the SETI literature, and overwhelmingly, the attitude toward UFOs and UFO research is (a) ignorant and (b) hostile. A rare exception is the British popular science writer Edward Ashpole, who has done books on SETI and one (sympathetic to the ETH) on the UFO phenomenon. There is, in fairness, astronomer/SETI historian Steven Dick, who while more or less skeptical is not notably hostile toward ufology, and he does know the subject. Far more typical, however, is Jill Tartar's boast of close- mindedness where UFO reports are concerned, or Carl Sagan's many and tiresome fulminations. A wonderful paper on the possible sources of SETIans' consistent hostility to UFO research is "The Effect of Conscious and Unconscious Attitudes About UFO Evidence on Scientific Acceptance of the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis," by D. C. Donderi. (Donderi is a psychologist at McGill University in Montreal.) Prof. Donderi speculates: "[T]he intense scientific interest in communicating with extraterrestrial intelligence is behavior which draws in part on experience of UFO evidence for its motivation, while allowing the interested scientist to refuse to consciously acknowledge that source. The `scientific' ETI interest is in part a rational but unrealistic attempt to deal with the problems presented by the overwhelming UFO evidence in ways which are acceptable in current scientific understanding.... This behavior recognizes the anxiety which would be caused by accepting the reality, and the possible extraterrestrial origin, of the UFO phenomenon. ... An interest in communicating with ETI is certainly not scientific behavior which can be justified on the basis of its results; as one critic (equally critical of UFOs) noted: `Exobiology is still a "science" without any data, therefore no science'." (From JUFOS 1 [old series, 1979], pp. 38-39) SETI has many critics within mainstream science, though you'd not know that from the breathlessly uncritical accounts you'll find in popular media treatments of the subject. One clear reason, it seems to me, that SETIans are unfriendly to UFO research is that, in the grand tradition of "anomaly snobbism" (William Corliss's phrase), they're seeking to establish their legitimacy by dissing another, possibly related subject which like SETI is often seen as fringish. In other words: Yes, I believe there are friendly space people out there, but I'm not crazy enough to believe they're coming here in UFOs. Sort of like the cryptozoologists who habitually assure us that while they believe in Bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster, they aren't among those deluded souls who deem UFOs also worth investigating. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:53:26 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:01:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:28:51 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO Update: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:34:42 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: The 'Roswell Memo' Images >>Hi List and all - >>Russ Estes has conducted a number of tests on the memo, letter, >>TWX, telex seen in General Ramey's hand. Estes used a >>professional video camera that cost about $50,000 originally, a >>$7000 macro lens, and about $50,000 worth of computer equipment. >>He used Adobe Photoshop 4.0 as software. He also had it flat >>scanned at 9000 dpi which created a file of about 1.5 gigabits. >>In other words, he used the best equipment available for the >>imagining. >>He also used a microscope to examine the memo. He, and others >>used magnifying glasses, jewelers' loops, and their bare eyes. >>They used every and all techniques to look at the memo General >>Ramey held (and yes, they noticed that he had a ragged thumb >>nail that could mean he bites his nails or that he had broken >>it). >>According to Estes, the words lengths were visible but the >>individual letters were open to interpretation. He said that it >>looked to him as if it was memo was in all caps. He said the >>only word that he could be positive about was "THE".>> <snip> >>Estes' examination simply confirmed the statements made by Dr. >>Richard Haines who undertook an examination of the memo about >>five years ago. Dr. Haines said that he couldn't read much other >>than a few scattered letters. >>It will be interesting to see what others see when they complete >>their examinations of the memo. We all must be careful that we >>don't see what we want to see in the memo. >>KRandle >It seems that Kevin Randle has taken a leaf out of the US >Government SOP manual: when any issue is raised about Roswell, >just quickly announce that they have conducted a SOLO examination >(usually by the CIA!) and "there was nothing there!" Just as quickly? I believe that these messages have been posted for weeks so it wasn't quickly. It wasn't a SOLO examination, it was just one more in a long line of examinations being conducted by a number of different individuals. And I didn't say there was nothing there. I said that most of what is on the memo is open to interpretation, which it is. Everyone has noted that he or she believes that certain words can be read but there are simply the best guess available. >It seems rather curious that Kevin would not have joined with >Stan Friedman and several other prominent Roswell researchers -- >and even several outspoken skeptics -- in working closely with >the volunteer but highly professional international RPIT (Roswell >Photo Interpretation Team) in their quest for the truth re the >Roswell Event. When all of this began, I sent the RPIT a report on what Dr. Haines had discovered a number of years ago. I received a nice reply but at the time had nothing to add. I thought that many _independent_ investigations and interpretations should be made of the memo so that we would have a better chance of understand what was on the memo. I don't believe anyone will argue that any of that message can be clearly read so we are all working with interpretations. I don't think we should follow one path to the exclusion of the others. >Perhaps it is because none of the RPIT investigators has any >book to sell or any other vested interest in the outcome of >their thorough Roswell Revisitation. I don't remember mentioning any books in my post. I notice that Stan mentioned a CD ROM that he has to sell. That certainly doesn't suggest that Stan's work can be ignored because he is trying to sell his CD. What I see here is that my cautionary words have been changed into something that I didn't say. I will say it again. Nearly everything in the memo is open to interpretation. Some of that interpretation is highly speculative. We are assuming here that the memo has something to do with the Roswell events. What if it is about the number of people who have been injured by sunstroke in the 8th Air Force during the month of July? No, I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm merely saying that we must not allow our enthusiasm overwhelm us here or we'll end up with another Jim Ragsdale, Max Littell, or Glenn Dennis. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:21:18 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:06:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:09:13 -0500 (EST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: _Almost_ Everybody! >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Abduction of Blacks? >>From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:19:25 -0200 >>Subject: Abduction of Blacks? >>Hello everybody, >>Today in Brazil is 'Black Consciousness Day'. >>I was wondering if anyone had heard of the abduction of somebody >>of black skin? >> Thiago Ticchetti >>* Eles est=E3o aqui * >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Yeah, Barney Hill for starters! >Silly question. >Bob ><<<>>> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Well, Barney Hill, for one. >Jerry Clark ><<<>>> >Message-ID: <7c13d855.3655bf1a@aol.com> >Sure, Barney Hill. >KRandle ><<<>>> >From: Craig Haynie <ccHaynie@ix.netcom.com> >Barney Hill was allegedly abducted in 1961, in the first reported >abduction case. ><<<>>> >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >The Hill Case - of course. ><<<>>> >From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> >Barney Hill, husband to Betty Hill, their story was distilled >into a book and movie, called Interupted Journey, Barney was a >blackman. OK, so that's one very easy answer, we're impressed. But as the population of the USA is - what? - 20 percent of Afro-American lineage there must be hundreds more, so can we have a lot more names please. Of course, if you can't come up with many more it might suggest that the abduction experience has a - gulp! - strong *psychosocial* element. Or is it just that the Greys aren't equal opportunity abductors? > -- John Rimmer Magonia On-Line, a division of the P.L.A. Driftwood Cartel www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:55:26 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:41:59 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:10:54 -0400 >Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:14:38 -0500 >Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House Previously, Serge Salvaille wrote: >>>In my opinion SETI is a $100-million adventure based on a 1950 >>>cheap b-zone sci-fi hypothesis. SETI got 30 years of research >>>and came out empty-handed. The funny part is that its promoters >>>still have credibility. Most scientists and researchers in the >>>FOIA adventure on UFOs came out with their hands full but with >>>_no_ credibility. >> Doc Barry chimed in with: >>I agree with Serge. SETI is a joke, a waste of time, money, and >>talent, period. == Doc Barr Stan's response: >Right on. SETI really stands for Silly Effort To Investigate. >The SETI cultists assume radio is the ultimate in communication, >even though any study of technological progress indicates that >progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable >way. The future is NOT an extrapolation of the past. Stan, I respect your research efforts and feel that you've brought alot to the ufology scene. But I have to disagree with you on this. I believe that SETI has great potential and should receive funding to continue its efforts; it does no harm to listen or try to communicate with whatever is "out there". I also agree that terrestrial based UFO research should get funding as well, if not more. The fact that it doesn't isn't the fault of SETI or its member or supporters. And let's face it, SETI isn't getting THAT much funding for its 30 year effort and you know it; though compared to the squat resources allocated for terrestrial UFO visitation research, it is a fortune. As for your claim that SETI advocates "assume radio is the ultimate in communcation"; sorry, but you are just plain wrong. RF is simply the tool at hand. We either use it or we remain mute. Personally, I see no harm in trying to say hello to our neighbors, whether they be far away on another planet or close by in a space craft. If they are advanced enough, they will recognize our primative attempts using RF and will reciprocate if they are interested. Perhaps they will use RF at first, then teach us something more sophisticated. It's simple, it's logical and it's the path of least resistance for both humans and ETs. >For those who are upset by my use of the word cult, consider the >attributes of a cult: Charismatic leadership (Sagan, Tartar, >Drake etc); Strong dogma ( life out there using radio to try to >connect with us; no colonization, no migration, no other means >of communication, NO VISITS to Earth), and certainly a strong >resistance to contrary views. Right, Stan, and every portly gentleman with a white beard is Santa. Please, in this day and age, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it only means that it has the basic characteristics of a duck and nothing more. SETI has had some high profiled advocates with questionable agendas but that means nothing; so has Ufology. If it meant anything at all, then the peole of the Soviet Union must be as stupid as their high profile leaders and we Americans must all think like the President, since he represents us publicly. Get my point? >Almost all SETI Cultists strongly attack ufology though they >never reference the scientific work, but rather focus on tabloid >nonsense. >Sagan's most cited source about UFOs, in 'Demon Haunted World', >is the tabloid 'Weekly World News'. He doesn't mention the >Congressional Hearings of l968, nor the AAAS Sessions of l969, >though he participated in both and Edited the Conference >Proceedings for the latter. "Almost all SETI Cultists..."? Based on what research, Stan? What cross section of SETI advocates did you poll to come up with that statement? More to the point, though I support SETI, I'd hardly consider myself a "cultist" as I, and all other SETI supporters I know, ALSO believe in the existence of UFO visitations and feel such events should be studied. In fact, I find your use of the word "cultists" somewhat disturbing since it promotes an atmosphere of "us against them". Isn't that what we are all trying to avoid? Look back in your own culture and examine the effect that categorizing has on a given society scrambling for limited resources. Such name calling and stereotyping accomplishes nothing but division and competition for status within a group. In fact, if SETI is such a monumental waste of time, then why bitch about it so much; it should be no threat to Ufology. On the contrary, SETI steals nothing from UFOlogy and, if successful, could be the catalyst for the release of tons of UFO information now considered classified. Isn't that what you, I, and every other Ufologist wants? Or is there fear that SETI might be successful in making contact first or, at least, getting the credit? If this is what everything comes down to, "getting the credit", then we should all hang our heads in shame. In the study of UFOs and extraterrestrial intelligence, egos and pettiness should be checked at the door, guys. How about it, Stan? Isn't there room for everyone, regardless of their methods? Shouldn't the term "cultists" be avoided since you really can't back up the claim that every SETI supporter feels as you say they do? I understand the frustration regarding the imbalance of funding for SETI and Ufology, but name calling or cancellation of SETI won't change a damn thing and certainly won't provide Ufology with the respect it so desperately wants and deserves. Tolerance is a fundable requirement for any communication with other beings. And I ain't talking 'bout ETs.... Roger Evans, Houston, Texas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Ramey Message Scan On Web From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:57:05 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:55:56 -0500 Subject: Ramey Message Scan On Web Dear All, One of the Ramey message scans used by the RPIT members can now be obtained over the net via: http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/download/index.htm Please note THIS IS A BIG FILE!! 2.5 megabytes!! 2331x1881 but shows the Ramey message scanned at 2400 dpi from an 11x14 print. This server is my own machine, it's old, slow and cranky at times please be patiant with it. Good hunting. Neil. ------------------------------------------------------- Neil Morris Email: Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk -------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:47:43 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:59:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:01:11 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:34:42 EST >>Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:38:52 -0500 >>Subject: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images > >Previously, Kevin informed us: > >>Russ Estes has conducted a number of tests on the memo, letter, >>TWX, telex seen in General Ramey's hand. Estes used a >>professional video camera that cost about $50,000 originally, a >>$7000 macro lens, and about $50,000 worth of computer >equipment. >>He used Adobe Photoshop 4.0 as software. He also had it flat >>scanned at 9000 dpi which created a file of about 1.5 gigabits. >>In other words, he used the best equipment available for the >>imagining. > ><snip> > >>Estes' examination simply confirmed the statements made by Dr. >>Richard Haines who undertook an examination of the memo about >>five years ago. Dr. Haines said that he couldn't read much >other >>than a few scattered letters. > >>It will be interesting to see what others see when they >complete >>their examinations of the memo. We all must be careful that we >>don't see what we want to see in the memo. > >Absolutely! > >In addition, it's important that we don't ignore anything that's > >obvious because it doesn't jive with what we've all come to >expect. > >In reference to the process used to study the imagery, I'm >curious why everyone is limiting themselves to the 16 x 20 >prints; or for that matter, any kind of prints regardless of >size. No matter how well they're produced, the amount of >resolution achieved in a print is doodly-squat when compared to >a scan taken off of the original negative. In addition, contrast > >problems such as loss of information in the shadow areas and >highlights is avoided entirely. > >With the amount of scrutiny going on, I'd think this would be >the ultimate image verification anyone could muster and is >cheaper than pulling prints, which only adds another generation. > >Hell, forget the electronics. How about viewing the original >negs under a microscope? The fact that it's a negative image >won't change what's written on the memo. > >Even if the UT library won't release the negs, any portable >microscope would suffice and could be carried to the library. > >A conclusion could be made in a few minutes to determine if >further study was needed outside the library and in a lab. >Are there problems with this scenario that I'm not aware of? >Roger Evans >Houston, Texas Roger Evans: Perhaps you could arrange to take your microscope and go to the UTA library and view the Ramey Message, the glyphs and other anomalous objects directly from the negatives. I think that Dr. Saxon and Sally Gross and the other staffers there would be most cooperative in supporting your quest. I know they permitted me to examine the negatives (after I had donned their white gloves!) last December at the library. But I had neglected to take my microscope! Please tell us what you discover! James Bond Johnson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:54:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:03:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:02:15 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Christophe Meessen <meessen@cppm.in2p3.fr> >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:49:47 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>The announced discovery of a massive planet orbiting the binary >>star Gliese 86 (or HD 13445) will be of particular interest to >>those who are familiar with the famous star map reproduced by >>Betty Hill which was was shown to her by E.T. beings aboard a >>UFO. Marjorie Fish identified all of the stars in this star map >>and the whole story was written up by Terry Dickinson in a very >>controversial but very convincing article in Astronomy magazine >>back in 1974. It identified the binary star Zeta Reticuli as >>the E.T.'s home base. >>Since I cannot find my copy of Terry's 1974 Astronomy article >>and I had little success in finding this detailed star map on >>the Internet, could someone tell me if Gliese 86 was one of the >>stars (which included our Sun) that was connected by solid or >>dashed lines? If so, could we conclude that the E.T.s from Zeta >>Reticuli have also visited this planet orbiting around Gliese >>86? >I would strongly recommend reconsidering the Zeta Reticuli >interpretation of Majorie Fish in light of the more recent >studies of Joachm Koch who suggest this map corresponds to our >own solar system. Joachim had very pertinent arguments to >justify this conclusion. >The circle in the center of the map has not been matched by M. >Fisch and correspond our Sun according to Joachim's >interpretation. The two big circle down right correspond to >saturn and Jupiter that by a strange coincidence where >effectively very close at the abduction date. I understood this >happens every 18 years approximatly. I checked their position my >self with a simulation program. Check your self by the tools >provided at http://www.fourmilab.ch/solar/ >Other planets position correspond quite closely to the map >except that the date is not exactly the same. According to >Joachim, the map correspond to one month before the abduction >should have taken place. >Another argument are the lines inside the two big circle that >would correspond to our well know planet feature: the rings. >These lines are not explained by Fisch's proposal. >Last but not least, it is important to look at the context when >the map was shown to Betty Hill. She asked where do they come >from. He then asked what does she know from space and stars. She >said not much, only our solar system. Then they showed her the >map and asked here where the earth was. She couldn't answer. The >map was then removed and she then was told that there was >useless in trying to explain where they come from. So the point >Joachim made was that if they asked where the earth was, it >would mean the earth was visible on the map, and since she said >she knew about our solar system, the map was shown to her >because she might have recognise it. >All these arguments and my own checking of the map >correspondance with our own solar system configuration at the >moment make me grant a high plausibility to Joachim's thesis. >I'm sorry for Majorie Fisch. >Sorry if this is old news to you, it might apparently still be >new to some posters. >It is suprising when people are looking for evidences so far >away when they are just in front of our nose. It is just a >matter of appropriate focusing apparently. ;-) >Beside, this does not reduce the value of find new planets in >other solar systems. Sorry, but Terry Dickinson and I both looked at Joachim's work years ago and found it not to have merit for a bunch of reasons. The portrayal above of the conversation with the alien is fictional. Try looking at the ZRI booklet or better yet 'The Interrupted Journey' by John Fuller. Marge Fish's work had also been carefully considered and passes muster. I should have added in my previous post that an update is also available reviewing the critics work, again by Terence Dickinson. I will throw that in free for anybody ordering the Zeta Reticuli Incident
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:04:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:07:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:01:11 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:34:42 EST >>Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:38:52 -0500 >>Subject: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images >Previously, Kevin informed us: >>Russ Estes has conducted a number of tests on the memo, letter, >>TWX, telex seen in General Ramey's hand. Estes used a >>professional video camera that cost about $50,000 originally, a >>$7000 macro lens, and about $50,000 worth of computer equipment. >>He used Adobe Photoshop 4.0 as software. He also had it flat >>scanned at 9000 dpi which created a file of about 1.5 gigabits. >>In other words, he used the best equipment available for the >>imagining. ><snip> >>Estes' examination simply confirmed the statements made by Dr. >>Richard Haines who undertook an examination of the memo about >>five years ago. Dr. Haines said that he couldn't read much other >>than a few scattered letters. >>It will be interesting to see what others see when they complete >>their examinations of the memo. We all must be careful that we >>don't see what we want to see in the memo. >Absolutely! >In addition, it's important that we don't ignore anything that's >obvious because it doesn't jive with what we've all come to >expect. >In reference to the process used to study the imagery, I'm >curious why everyone is limiting themselves to the 16 x 20 >prints; or for that matter, any kind of prints regardless of >size. No matter how well they're produced, the amount of >resolution achieved in a print is doodly-squat when compared to >a scan taken off of the original negative. In addition, contrast >problems such as loss of information in the shadow areas and >highlights is avoided entirely. >With the amount of scrutiny going on, I'd think this would be >the ultimate image verification anyone could muster and is >cheaper than pulling prints, which only adds another generation. >Hell, forget the electronics. How about viewing the original >negs under a microscope? The fact that it's a negative image >won't change what's written on the memo. >Even if the UT library won't release the negs, any portable >microscope would suffice and could be carried to the library. >A conclusion could be made in a few minutes to determine if >further study was needed outside the library and in a lab. >Are there problems with this scenario that I'm not aware of? >Roger Evans >Houston, Texas The use of a very good microscope has been discussed and is a good idea. As I have indicated we had very high quality scans made of both sides of the negative and the entire negative as well as of an old 8x10 print I got 20 years ago.. when the number of scratches was much lower. And also of an 11x14 print and more interesting of an 8x10 print made from the original negative of just the memo area. All these scans are on the CD- ROM I have offered.for only $25. including S and H. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:10:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 08:40:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:51:35 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:49:47 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:02:49 +0100 >>>Subject: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>>Source: >>>http://www.eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-1998/pr-18-98.html >>>Stig >><snip> >>>Discovery of a heavy planet in orbit around "Gliese 86" >>>Gliese 86 (also known as "HD 13445") is seen in the southern >>>constellation Eridanus (The River). It is a bright, rather cool >>>dwarf star, somewhat less massive than the Sun (about 0.79 solar >>>mass). It is also intrinsically fainter than the Sun (about 0.4 >>>solar luminosity). However, since it is quite nearby - about 35 >>>light-years only - its apparent magnitude is comparatively >>>bright and it is just at the limit of what can be seen with the >>>unaided eye (mV= 6.12). >><snip> >>Hi Stig, Hi everyone, >>The announced discovery of a massive planet orbiting the binary >>star Gliese 86 (or HD 13445) will be of particular interest to >>those who are familiar with the famous star map reproduced by >>Betty Hill which was was shown to her by E.T. beings aboard a >>UFO. Marjorie Fish identified all of the stars in this star map >>and the whole story was written up by Terry Dickinson in a very >>controversial but very convincing article in Astronomy magazine >>back in 1974. It identified the binary star Zeta Reticuli as >>the E.T.'s home base. >>Except for an entry in The Extrasolar Planets Encyclopaedia >>http://wwwusr.obspm.fr/planets/ >>which was removed a few days later, this is the first time a >>star from this E.T. star map has been found to have a planet >>orbiting it. Anyone know the reason why the earlier "discovery" >>of a planet orbiting one of the two Zeta Retuculi stars was >>later removed from this comprehensive list? >>Since I cannot find my copy of Terry's 1974 Astronomy article >>and I had little success in finding this detailed star map on >>the Internet, could someone tell me if Gliese 86 was one of the >>stars (which included our Sun) that was connected by solid or >>dashed lines? If so, could we conclude that the E.T.s from Zeta >>Reticuli have also visited this planet orbiting around Gliese >>86? >>Nick Balaskas >Dear Nick, List, et al... >Unfortunately Gliese 86 was not on the Hill map. Betty Hill >made two drawings, one of which had the stellar assignations >and the other did not. Neither shows Gliese 86. This is from >Fuller's book, "Incident at Exeter" Subtitled "The Interrupted >Journey." <snip> Sorry Jim, there is nothing about Marge Fish's work in 'The Interrupted Journey'. Betty tried to link what she drew to a NY Times article. Bad idea. You need to go to my early SAGA article, hard to get, or to the Terence Dickinson article. Gliese 86 is definitely part of the map.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:30:43 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:00:07 -0500 Subject: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> > Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:25:20 -0700 (MST) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: When SETI gets an ET signal! >If SETI announces the discovery of the signal to mainstream >science, what will happen? The acceptance that the signal is >from an intelligent extraterrestrial civilization will require >study by mainstream science. Quite correct, Doc. And, as our esteemed colleague Roger pointed out in another post: >When SETI or the study of UFOs shows an immediate potential for >a marketable technology, big business will mow down scientists in the >frenzy to capitalize on this new found commodity. I recommend the SETI folks begin "breath holding lessons" in preparation for that fateful day. We can easily extrapolate from the treatment given ufology by mainstream science, debunkers, and the press to forsee what SETI will have to endure. Doc, you also wrote: >Can you picture the headlines? -- "SETI Announces Discovery of >ET Signal". The next day's headlines may read -- "Authenticity >of SETI Signal is Questioned". Then SETI will have the struggle >to see what science will accept as evidence. Will taped sounds >and lines on viewing screens prove ET contact to mainstream >science? SETI will have a tough struggle convincing science, if >they ever do get a signal. It may take 50 years of discussion, >as evidence submitted by Ufology has taken 50 years and it still >is not accepted. Bravo. Don't forget, one hoax has already set SETI back 100 years. Guess that means they've hired Thomas Edison now or something. I have an idea. Lets have each camp elect a representative to be sent into a boxing ring to settle it mano e mano. Winner takes all available funding....oh, and a cool belt. Whaddya say Stanton? You seem pretty spry, think you could take Captain SETI? Greg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:52:48 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:11:54 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >From: Perry van den Brink - [UASR]> <UASR@gmx.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 00:55:22 +0100 Perry van den Brink writes: >We do _not_ think we have the authority; We know we have.... Then you say: > Don't get me wrong; I will always respect the view and opinion of our members and > will never abuse my"authority" > [I hate that word....] But you can't help yourself?? >Here are some Quotes from the official UASR welcomes letter: > ANYONE WHO BREAKS THESE RULES IS SUBJECT TO HAVING HIS/HER > FEED OR POSTING PRIVILEGE TO UASR CUT PERMANENTLY OR PUT ON > PROBATION, **** WITHOUT WARNING **** Specfically, what is the rule that CAUS was in violation of? > I pay money to have this list so that gives me every authority in the universe to do > what I want with the list ;-) A mailing list owner has the right to editorial control. I would like to think this was meant to apply to content that may be repetitive, inflammatory, verbally abusive or on another topic not suitable or relevant for the list. Members of a mailing list are entitled to read submissions from responsible and member parties and this material should be presented in the interest of fairness to opposing points of view and free speech. But why does UASR make an example of CAUS, an organization that has done some serious research in the past and has presently filed several lawsuits against the US Army, CIA, FBI, and NSA? Peter Gersten is entitled to have his views aired on this list, even in Mr. van den Brink disagrees. What UASR has done is outright censorship and authoritarian in a totalitarian sense! They have become biased to certain points of view and will restrict information before it can be considered by their own members. This is an abhorrent policy and must be condemned! (irregardless of it being a privately owned list) Editorial control becomes censorship when alternate points of view are restricted or suppressed. This is what we in the UFO community are fighting against, suppression of beliefs and truth. When we start to discriminate against the point of view or beliefs of organizations in our own little neighborhood we become divided and play into the opposition's hand. I know you didn't see it that way, but I hope you understand my point and clarify your position to the mainstream. Ignatius Graffeo UFOSEEK ---------------------------------------------------------------- Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News: UFOSEEK... For the Source! www.ufoseek.org "Pictures of SETI Signals from unknown engineer in the UK" Contact1450 - Mirror Site: UPDATED (since Nov.3) http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/CapeCanaveralHall7193/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Crop Circle Hoaxes - More Questions... From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:02:07 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:16:25 -0500 Subject: Crop Circle Hoaxes - More Questions... Dear Matthew, Firstly I would like to thank you kindly for replying to my offer. Seeming that you feel you are unable to disclose such information, would you be so kind as to answer the following points. 1.)Do you and your associate intend to keep on creating hoaxed circles? 2.)Have you or your associate ever informed Crop-Circle researchers of a formation you have created and told them you have discovered it and was unaware of its origins and subsequently visited the formation with the informed researcher(s)?. 3.)If you are unable to present to the study of Crop-Circle research any direct evidence of your involvement of creating these formations, are we to take your word for it without evidence being submitted? (And would the people you informed of your activities be willing to back and to also verify your claims regarding your "Hoaxed Formations")as testimony to your work. 4.)Do you lay claim to just Hoaxing Crop-Circles in Wiltshire UK or was there more of a Network of formations across other areas? 5.)You mentioned in your statement that some researchers feel let down or deceived by your actions, do you think any footage brought forward by you or your colleague from these areas could be harder for these researchers to accept? 6.)Do you understand that you have left some researchers mystified as to why you felt the need to engage in the Hoaxing activities, as like the so called "Circle-Makers" R. Irving etc? 7.)When you interviewed Rob Irving on the subject of Crop-Circle hoaxing, in one of the editions of your magazine "TRUTHSEEKERS" was you actively engaged in such activity then, and if so would you say that you had a great chance to declare to all of your readers that you were indeed also a "CircleMaker" like R.Irving? 8.)You claim also in your statement that you and your colleague were made invisible to people outside the formation, would it be possible that if you create a hoaxed formation in Wiltshire 1999, that you could have some outside observers to see if you do in fact become invisible whilst entering and also being in the formation? 9.)If I may I would like to highlight a contradiction by you within your statement, and also in your reply to a noted Crop-Circle researcher Chad Deetken below: "There is probably a non human intelligence working alongside human Circle makers to create some circles outright i.e. the original phenomena still remains creating circles - a fact to which ALL Human Circle makers Agree. This is a very worthy point to note! Evidence to this come in the form of additions to circles which appear in the morning". In your reply to Chad Deetken: "The trouble is that the real phenomena are now the people who make circles. Those researches who don't think so are living in the past. Whilst there was probably genuine phenomena in the past - the current phenomena involves people being inspired to make circles". Would you agree that these two statements are in total contradiction to each other? As you can see Matthew, this is why so many of my fellow Colleagues are left slightly bemused and baffled by this whole episode of events. Like yourself I am an editor of a UFO magazine, which is also in the shops and as an editor I feel obliged to give factual reporting to all of my readers on the UFO crop-circle research studies. As researchers and also editors where do we draw the line. Matthew I and my colleagues have always looked upon yourself as a respected and noted lecturer and professional investigator please help us to keep this view. Sincerely yours, Roy Hale..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:56:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:55:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:34:42 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: The 'Roswell Memo' Images >Hi List and all - >Russ Estes has conducted a number of tests on the memo, letter, >TWX, telex seen in General Ramey's hand. Estes used a >professional video camera that cost about $50,000 originally, a >$7000 macro lens, and about $50,000 worth of computer equipment. >He used Adobe Photoshop 4.0 as software. He also had it flat >scanned at 9000 dpi which created a file of about 1.5 gigabits. >In other words, he used the best equipment available for the >imagining. >He also used a microscope to examine the memo. He, and others >used magnifying glasses, jewelers' loops, and their bare eyes. >They used every and all techniques to look at the memo General >Ramey held (and yes, they noticed that he had a ragged thumb >nail that could mean he bites his nails or that he had broken >it). >According to Estes, the words lengths were visible but the >individual letters were open to interpretation. He said that it >looked to him as if it was memo was in all caps. He said the >only word that he could be positive about was "THE". He also >believed that he could see the letters ELA but couldn't tell if >the first images in that string was quotation marks or other >letters that couldn't be read. He also said that he saw the word >"Confidential" stamped at the top of the memo and that there was >a smear near Ramey's thumb that could be seen as an old style >telephone. >Estes used the best equipment and software available to examine >the memo seen on the 16 x 20 print and said that he could not >see much that was not open to interpretation on the memo. It >was, to him, "faces in the clouds". In other words, the >interpretation put on the memo was based on what the viewer >wanted to see. >That has been borne out here, as others who have examined the >print have provided us with some other interpretations. Estes >said that he was disappointed that the images couldn't be >resolved to the point where the words were readable rather than >interpreted by those doing the examination. >Estes' examination simply confirmed the statements made by Dr. >Richard Haines who undertook an examination of the memo about >five years ago. Dr. Haines said that he couldn't read much other >than a few scattered letters. >It will be interesting to see what others see when they complete >their examinations of the memo. We all must be careful that we >don't see what we want to see in the memo. Golly, Kevin, this is almost, word for word, what XIXth century scientists thought about Koch's theories on bacteria. History has it that Pasteur came up later with a popular (mainstream) theory on the existence of micro-organisms, and is now, surprisingly enough, widely accepted. The "petite histoire" tells that Pasteur screwed Koch in the process. I know the later remark has nothing to do with this post, but I've been waiting 20 years to make an English joke on this historical fact, joke you can't make in French. Sorry, eh?, Serge
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: ETI Scientists Petition White House From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:29:09 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:59:42 -0500 Subject: Re: ETI Scientists Petition White House >From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:46:15 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:10:13 -0800 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: SETI Scientists Petition White House >Larry, you wrote: >>For the life of me, I cannot understand some of the anti-SETI >>messages recently. >That's okay, perhaps a bit more information will help you to see >the light. >>If the UFO people think the SETI people are a bit odd, what do >>you suppose they think of us? >I don't have to suppose. SETI people can often be seen on TV >trashing ufology. Their opinion of ufologists is quite clear. >>_If_, the SETI efforts get one credible peep out of the cosmos, >>one verifiable signal from some obviously intelligent source, >>it would bolster the UFO/ET argument like no other single fact >>acceptable to present-day mainstream science. >Please define a "credible peep". If all the evidence garnered by >ufologists over the years doesn't qualify in the eyes of >mainstream science as credible, then SETI hasn't got a prayer. >You tell me what they can come up with that will interest >science, and that can't be explained away by some eager >debunker. They can't even define what they expect to find, let >alone prove it to be extraterrestrial. At least ufologists >already have something to attempt to explain. The phenomena >already exists, putting ufology way ahead of the competition. Dear Greg: Well, how about a constant stream of bits, alternating frequencies perhaps, obviously emanating from outside the Solar System. To gain credibility, it would have to be monitored by separate receivers worldwide, over time. If we are lucky, the signal will last long enough to prove its not a satellite ( obviously moving with respect to the stars..) Other characearistics would hopefully eliminate pulsars, quasars and other natural phenomena. Yes, the debunkers would fire away with both barrels, but now they would have a tougher time of it; assuming the evidence is really good. >By the way, the UFO/ET argument doesn't need bolstering when >it's evidence is viewed fairly and open mindedly, without >altering the facts to arrive at less threatening conclusions. For us, perhaps. For many others not. That's one reason I see SETI as a possible ( albeit highly unlikely ) way to bridge this gap. An ET signal from many light years distance is less 'threatening' than a UFO landing. For psychological reasons alone, this might open some minds to the UFO possibilities. >>There are millions, perhaps billions of people on Earth who >>still think that mankind is the only intelligent species in the >>universe. Many of these seem to take it as some sort of >>religious tenet, even though no sensible religion would take >>such a stupid position. > >How exactly do you determine which religions are "sensible"? Well, that was an unfortunate word on my part. Some major religions ( Catholicism for example ) have openly embraced the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere. That seems pretty sensible to me, and contrasts sharply with other frankly idiotic positions ( birth control etc. etc. ) taken in the past. >Each religion is held near and dear to the hearts of those who >follow them. Your statement is insensitive and insulting. I don't think so. >How many people in the history of the world have died due to >religious differences? Uncounted millions, no doubt. >I suppose your religion is a sensible one, naturally. Not really, I don't have one. >>I am reminded of competing religions with very similar beliefs, >>.. endlessly warring .. only to the benefit of their worst >>enemies. >Ufology and SETI are not similar. Ufology has _some_ evidence to >support it's claims, while SETI hasn't even reached the point >where claims can be made. If they are competing, then ufology >has a distinct head start. They are similar in that they both attempt to explore and prove the existance of ET intelligence. Beyond that, they differ greatly, I agree. I hope we can agree to disagree! <BG> >Greg Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:37:20 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:01:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie Dear Roger: Please see below >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, >Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:31:27 -0800 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>>From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> >>>Date: Mon 23 Nov, 1998 14:53 >>>This page at Malin Space Science Systems has a movie that shows >>>the Mars Descent Imager Entry, Descent & Landing test results >>>for the Mars Polar Lander. >>>http://www.msss.com/stuff/edl4/ >>>I wonder if this could be another sign for CAUS. >>>Roger R. Prokic >>>Telecom Design Lead >>>Mars Surveyor Program >>>Lockheed Martin Astronautics >>>Denver, Colorado USA >>Dear Roger: >>All I see is a clumsily animated grey alien 'waving' at me in >>front of what looks like a radar dish. >>Is that the joke? >Larry, I think it's a goof on the many believers of Hoagland's >outlandish "religion" of the Face on Mars. Note Mike Malin made >the instruments that showed us all how silly Hoagland really is. >Roger R. Prokic >Telecom Design Lead >Mars Surveyor Program >Lockheed Martin Astronautics >Denver, Colorado USA Roger: If you mean a "spoof", then yes I suppose that could be it! This is a bit surprising in view of the rather sober and official looking web pages usually found there. - LH
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:48:52 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:05:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> >Date: Fri 27 Nov, 1998 8:02 >>Dear Roger: >>All I see is a clumsily animated grey alien 'waving' at me in >>front of what looks like a radar dish. >>Is that the joke? >Larry, I think it's a goof on the many believers of Hoagland's >outlandish "religion" of the Face on Mars. Note Mike Malin made >the instruments that showed us all how silly Hoagland really is. >Roger R. Prokic >Telecom Design Lead >Mars Surveyor Program >Lockheed Martin Astronautics >Denver, Colorado USA >-=[ sent from a 3Com Palm III & Multimail Pro v2.11b ]=- Well Roger, Me thinks you protest Richard Hoagland's claims to much. You make a point of posting your credentials after every message, as though it "means something." Not to me it doesn't. Your's is just another opinion. And, if I may say so, a very negavitistic, slanderous opinion. I have not bothered to respond to your replies previously, but I thought I would do so this time. All one has to do is take the time to search out Richard Hoaglands past credentials, and they will see that he has a history, not only with NASA, but with CBS NEWS, the President's Scientific Council with Space Research, as well as educational programs for high school students in the 60's and 70's. I am the first to admit that even though I am aware of his past credentials, he seems to be "off his nut," to the average scientific fundamentalist, in the "90's," the "age of reintroduced darkness." Yes, this is once again an age of darkness for the masses. Scientists, who promote themselves, care only about grants, and project dollars...they could care less about the right to know of the average citizen. Let someone like Richard Hoagland come along, and they show their true nature. The fangs and claws come out. Attack! Slash! Destroy! Yes, this is the attitude of today... It is not new, it is simply a continuation of a policy which was begun long ago... I don't question your right to your opinion... I question your right to "attack, slash, destroy," a person, who has not said one word to you, (to the best of my knowledge) on this echo... Yes, Sir...you are a real gentleman... At least, I write to you about you and afford you a right to disagree with me...One time. After that, I am done. I will not engage in long drawn out threads. It is a waste of time, a waste of money, and a waste of space... I humbly appologize to those who find this type of message rhetorical and disgusting...so do I... REgards, Mike ICQ#:7508455. (502) 683-3026
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:58:38 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:07:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:51:35 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >These creatures (I refer to Grays) have short bodies, long and >very slim legs and arms, large eyes, etc. These are descriptions >about which we are all aware. I cannot for the life of me but >wonder why some theorizing has not been done on these >pohotos. >Hello? Anybody out there with some theories? >Jim Mortellaro Sure, Jim... I would suggest that their appearence, suggests a subterranean culture..... They have large eyes, which would work well in a low light environment. They have no hair, which would also suggest they need no protection from the elements. They have grey skin, again suggesting a life form raised in an environment which lacks pigmentation...a low light environment. Need I say more??? <G> REgards, Mike ICQ#:7508455. (502) 683-6811
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:13:02 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:09:17 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >From: Perry van den Brink - [UASR]> <UASR@gmx.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 00:55:22 +0100 >Here are some Quotes from the official UASR welcomes letter: > ------ >ANYONE WHO BREAKS THESE RULES IS SUBJECT TO HAVING HIS/HER FEED >OR POSTING PRIVILEGE TO UASR CUT PERMANENTLY OR PUT ON >PROBATION, > **** WITHOUT WARNING **** >THE MODERATORS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO GIVE WARNINGS BEFORE >SUSPENDING OR REVOKING ACCESS TO THIS UASR ECHO. > ------ You know, if I were posting to a List, and this message appeared, I would say: "Take me off of your list!!!!" REgards, Mike ICQ#:7508455.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:03:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:14:15 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:14:42 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: SETI Scientists Petition White House >Time out, Serge. >You make a pretty strong accusation. Please give us names of any >SETI supporters that laugh at terrestrial based UFO research. My >money is on the bet that you can't. In fact, I'd go so far as to >say that everyone I know that supports SETI also supports the >investigation of UFO sightings and encounters. True, SETI has >received the lion's share of the funding, but $100 million is >squat for 30 years work. No one, including SETI members, is >saying that terrestrial based UFO research doesn't deserve >funding, also. The fact that UFO researchers don't get it is not >SETI's fault. Your grudge is with the wrong people. Grow up. Forgive my strong words here, but the discussion of SETI on this list would be much more informative if the participants would take the time to read some SETI literature. All the questions people here are raising -- how anyone would recognize an alien signal, whether there would be controversy over it, what to do about the long delay between our response and a second alien message -- have been discussed at great length by the scientists involved. I'm not saying we have to bow at these scientists' feet. But there's no need to reinvent the wheel, and start the conversation all over again from ground zero, as if dozens of books and articles hadn't already been written. About SETI and UFOs, the record is clear. SETI scientists are almost universally hostile to ufology. One quick source for their opinions is in a book of interviews, 'SETI Pioneers', edited by David W. Swift. All the leading lights of the field are represented. Here are all the comments on UFOs: Frank Drake (for many years the field's main spokesman): "UFOs are, in my opinion, in most cases natural phenomena misinterpreted...Some are psychological failures of the perception system....A substantial fraction of UFOs are frauds and hoaxes." Bernard Oliver: "If there were something to UFOs we would have better evidence than we do." Ronald Bracewell: "There are genuine astronomical and atmospheric objects behind a lot of reports....You go back and look at what people were saying: that it was colored, it was flashing, it moved up at tremendous speed. Many people saw it. Yet, by golly, it was just Venus...I'm not very helpful about UFOs. I'm just an agnostic, you might say." Nikolai Kardashev: "I'm very skeptical....It is difficult for unprofessional types of people to know what they see in the sky." Carl Sagan: "There isn't a smidgen of evidence of us being visited now or having been visited in the past. It's out of the question; there's just no evidence for it." John Billingham: "The feeling that I think all of us have is that if you look into it in some detail, the vast majority of sightings of UFOs can be expained as being ultimately IFOs, which are _identified_ flying objects." Charles Seeger: "I've had sufficient contact with people actually working in the area to know that a fair amount of it is psychological. It's in the minds of the people who saw it....I don't go as far as Philip Klass in calling it all nonsense, because I think it's a fascinating aspect of humanity. But there is no reasonably respectable evidence that we are being visited by extraterrestrials. "[He goes on to say nice words about a couple of ufologists, Jacques Vallee and Richard Haines.} Kunitomo Sakurai: "If we look at the technological aspects, it would be almost impossible for UFOs, even if they exist, to travel between the stars; it is too far." {He goes on to speak favorably of Hynek and Peter Sturrock. This makes him and the previous scientist I've quoted unique among those interviewed for this book.] Jill Tarter: "Some of these UFO sightings might, in fact, turn out to be valid reports witnessing [an up to now unknown] phenomenon that doesn't yet have an explanation. I say, 'might be.' Certainly the vast majority of them are not anything even that credible....I have an open mind on whether anyone has seen anything that has a reality to it; a closed mind on the idea that what has been seen is a manifestation of extraterrestrial visitation." This book came out in 1990. Maybe there are younger SETI scientists with different ideas, but you've just read what some of the founders of SETI think. Not one of them advocates spending one penny for UFO research.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Min Min Lights From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:11:20 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:18:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Min Min Lights >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:41:24 -0800 >From: William Chalker <bchalker@ozemail.com.au> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Min Min Lights have previously made extensive enquiries into this intriguing >part of Australian folklore and also made the trek out there. >Alas no sightings of the Light. >I circulated back in 1983-84 a report I wrote on this puzzle. I >quote from the article: <A rather unkind snip, but I felt brevity might be a good idea. :-) > >The late Maureen Kozicka self published a nice book on the >subject in 1994, entitled "The Mystery of the Min Min Light". >I trust this assists the enquiry on the Min Min Light. >Organization: >UFOIC (UFO INVESTIGATION CENTRE) >P.O. Box W42, >West Pennant Hills, >NSW, 2125, AUSTRALIA. >Voice: (Sydney) (02) 9484 4680 Hi Bill Thank you for the info, it was interesting, and a rather nice report. :-) --- In an infinite universe inifinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 WingMakers From: Michael Theroux <theroux@borderlands.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 03:24:27 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:34:30 -0500 Subject: WingMakers >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:30:09 -0800 >To: mhempel@SOUTHBAYGROUP.COM >From: Michael Theroux <theroux@borderlands.com> >Subject: Wingmakers >Dear Mark Hempel, >Internic "whois" says you own the "wingmakers" website. I would like to >present the following: ><from your website> >Dr. Anderson: >"As for the artistic production, there really wasn't much that we did. The computers did all the interpretative work and essentially performed the production for that matter. We had some of our staff perform overdubs on various versions to experiment with the compositions. The music was very popular, particularly when you listened to it at a sampling resolution of 384-bit." ><end> >...and this from: http://www.netradio.net/earthbeat/eb8_sf.html >================== >"The Creator and Producer of SOULFOOD is DJ Free. Free is a musician, dj >and Graduate Student focusing on the Preservation, Education and >Awareness of Indigenous Peoples. Listed below are two of his music industry >projects: >>Released nationally charted club songs "Shout" & "Extacy" >>Worked for the Artist formerly known as "Prince" at Glam Slam >Authentic songs and vocal chants are performed by Arapata from the Maori >Indigenous Peoples of New Zealand and his Lakota family relations in South >Dakota. Within SOULFOOD, artists range from the Maori, Native American >and Sami Indigenous Peoples. >Additional Musicians and Co-Producers include Pianists Steven Kuether, >""Mark Hempel"" and Ambient/Dance band members Phuzz and Android from >L.E.D. who have ventured into Soundtrack, Multi-Media and CD releases. >L.E.D. projects include: >>Released nationally charted club hits "Wish" & "Shout" >>Voted best electronic CD "Shortwave" in the Minnesota Music Awards" >================== Does this mean that YOU are one of the ACIO "staff" that performed overdubs on the ET music? If you work for the ACIO, is there a branch in Minnesota? The musical examples from the above website sound so similar to the music on the "wingmakers" site. Is it a coincidence, or did you just tune into certain alien intelligences when playing it? Anyway, I thought I would forward this to several of our UFO associate groups for their interest and perusal. >Thanks, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michael Theroux Director Borderland Sciences Research Foundation - Since 1945 http://www.borderlands.com theroux@borderlands.com Ph. 707.825.7733 FAX: 707.825.7779
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:42:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:33:52 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 98 16:43:23 PST >>From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:14:42 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: SETI Scientists Petition White House >>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >>>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:37:02 -0500 >>>Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:30:54 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >Howdy, listfolk, >>Previously Larry Hatch offered: >>>>For the life of me, I cannot understand some of the anti-SETI >>>>messages recently. >>Serge's rather rude response was: >>>Then I suggest you read the posts more carefully and try to >>>understand the situation. >>>Any 30 years $100-million flopped project supported by >>>mainstream science on the hypothesis of extra-terrestrial life >>>must be questioned by people involved in a 50 years $0.00 >>>research who came up with evidence - people who are still >>>laughed at by the same SOBs who support the fore-mentioned >>>project. >>Time out, Serge. >>You make a pretty strong accusation. Please give us names of any >>SETI supporters that laugh at terrestrial based UFO research. My >>money is on the bet that you can't. In fact, I'd go so far as to >>say that everyone I know that supports SETI also supports the >>investigation of UFO sightings and encounters. True, SETI has >>received the lion's share of the funding, but $100 million is >>squat for 30 years work. No one, including SETI members, is >>saying that terrestrial based UFO research doesn't deserve >>funding, also. The fact that UFO researchers don't get it is not >>SETI's fault. Your grudge is with the wrong people. Grow up. >Wow. I am at a loss to understand any of the above paragraph. >I've read a reasonable amount of the SETI literature, and >overwhelmingly, the attitude toward UFOs and UFO research is (a) >ignorant and (b) hostile. A rare exception is the British >popular science writer Edward Ashpole, who has done books on >SETI and one (sympathetic to the ETH) on the UFO phenomenon. >There is, in fairness, astronomer/SETI historian Steven Dick, >who while more or less skeptical is not notably hostile toward >ufology, and he does know the subject. Far more typical, >however, is Jill Tartar's boast of close- mindedness where UFO >reports are concerned, or Carl Sagan's many and tiresome >fulminations. >A wonderful paper on the possible sources of SETIans' >consistent hostility to UFO research is "The Effect of >Conscious and Unconscious Attitudes About UFO Evidence >on Scientific Acceptance of the Extraterrestrial >Hypothesis," by D. C. Donderi. (Donderi is a psychologist >at McGill University in Montreal.) Prof. Donderi speculates: >"[T]he intense scientific interest in communicating with >extraterrestrial intelligence is behavior which draws in part on >experience of UFO evidence for its motivation, while allowing >the interested scientist to refuse to consciously acknowledge >that source. The `scientific' ETI interest is in part a rational >but unrealistic attempt to deal with the problems presented by >the overwhelming UFO evidence in ways which are acceptable >in current scientific understanding.... This behavior recognizes >the anxiety which would be caused by accepting the reality, >and the possible extraterrestrial origin, of the UFO phenomenon. >... An interest in communicating with ETI is certainly not >scientific behavior which can be justified on the basis of its >results; as one critic (equally critical of UFOs) noted: >`Exobiology is still a "science" without any data, therefore no >science'." (From JUFOS 1 [old series, 1979], pp. 38-39) >SETI has many critics within mainstream science, though >you'd not know that from the breathlessly uncritical accounts >you'll find in popular media treatments of the subject. One >clear reason, it seems to me, that SETIans are unfriendly >to UFO research is that, in the grand tradition of "anomaly >snobbism" (William Corliss's phrase), they're seeking to >establish their legitimacy by dissing another, possibly >related subject which like SETI is often seen as fringish. >In other words: Yes, I believe there are friendly space >people out there, but I'm not crazy enough to believe >they're coming here in UFOs. Sort of like the cryptozoologists >who habitually assure us that while they believe in Bigfoot >or the Loch Ness monster, they aren't among those >deluded souls who deem UFOs also worth investigating. >Jerry Clark It makes me feel old to admit it, but my 1973 MUFON Symposium paper "Ufology and the Search for ET Intelligent Life " dealt with many of the false arguments made by SETI cultists against UFOs. It was p.40-61 in the Symposium Proceedings. I do have some copies available. There are 73 references. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:58:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:38:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:53:26 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images >>From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:28:51 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: UFO Update: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:34:42 EST >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: The 'Roswell Memo' Images >>>Hi List and all - >>>Russ Estes has conducted a number of tests on the memo, letter, >>>TWX, telex seen in General Ramey's hand. Estes used a >>>professional video camera that cost about $50,000 originally, a >>>$7000 macro lens, and about $50,000 worth of computer equipment. >>>He used Adobe Photoshop 4.0 as software. He also had it flat >>>scanned at 9000 dpi which created a file of about 1.5 gigabits. >>>In other words, he used the best equipment available for the >>>imagining. >>>He also used a microscope to examine the memo. He, and others >>>used magnifying glasses, jewelers' loops, and their bare eyes. >>>They used every and all techniques to look at the memo General >>>Ramey held (and yes, they noticed that he had a ragged thumb >>>nail that could mean he bites his nails or that he had broken >>>it). >>>According to Estes, the words lengths were visible but the >>>individual letters were open to interpretation. He said that it >>>looked to him as if it was memo was in all caps. He said the >>>only word that he could be positive about was "THE".>> > <snip> >>>Estes' examination simply confirmed the statements made by Dr. >>>Richard Haines who undertook an examination of the memo about >>>five years ago. Dr. Haines said that he couldn't read much other >>>than a few scattered letters. >>>It will be interesting to see what others see when they complete >>>their examinations of the memo. We all must be careful that we >>>don't see what we want to see in the memo. >>>KRandle >>It seems that Kevin Randle has taken a leaf out of the US >>Government SOP manual: when any issue is raised about Roswell, >>just quickly announce that they have conducted a SOLO examination >>(usually by the CIA!) and "there was nothing there!" >Just as quickly? I believe that these messages have been posted for >weeks so it wasn't quickly. It wasn't a SOLO examination, it was just >one more in a long line of examinations being conducted by a number >of different individuals. >And I didn't say there was nothing there. I said that most of >what is on the memo is open to interpretation, which it is. >Everyone has noted that he or she believes that certain words >can be read but there are simply the best guess available. >>It seems rather curious that Kevin would not have joined with >>Stan Friedman and several other prominent Roswell researchers -- >>and even several outspoken skeptics -- in working closely with >>the volunteer but highly professional international RPIT (Roswell >>Photo Interpretation Team) in their quest for the truth re the >>Roswell Event. >When all of this began, I sent the RPIT a report on what Dr. >Haines had discovered a number of years ago. I received a nice >reply but at the time had nothing to add. I thought that many >_independent_ investigations and interpretations should be made >of the memo so that we would have a better chance of understand >what was on the memo. I don't believe anyone will argue that any >of that message can be clearly read so we are all working with >interpretations. I don't think we should follow one path to the >exclusion of the others. >>Perhaps it is because none of the RPIT investigators has any >>book to sell or any other vested interest in the outcome of >>their thorough Roswell Revisitation. >I don't remember mentioning any books in my post. I notice that >Stan mentioned a CD ROM that he has to sell. That certainly >doesn't suggest that Stan's work can be ignored because he is >trying to sell his CD. >What I see here is that my cautionary words have been changed >into something that I didn't say. I will say it again. Nearly >everything in the memo is open to interpretation. Some of that >interpretation is highly speculative. We are assuming here that >the memo has something to do with the Roswell events. What if it >is about the number of people who have been injured by sunstroke >in the 8th Air Force during the month of July? >No, I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm merely saying that we >must not allow our enthusiasm overwhelm us here or we'll end up >with another Jim Ragsdale, Max Littell, or Glenn Dennis. >KRandle I think the comment by Bond about people selling books was a cheap shot. I mentioned the CD ROM because it has the best source data available namely scans of the negative (back and front portions of the memo region, and of the entire uncropped negative), and of a huge enlargement (equivalent to a 55x70 print)of just the memo portion, and of a 20 year old print (the fingernail area of the negative hadn't yet been scratched) as well as of an 11x14 As far as I know, no one else has the scans of an old print, of the greatly enlarged memo portion of the print (made by UTA from the original negative) nor the scans of the negative. It cost me $500. to have the negative scanned. I am offering a CD ROM with all this and more to everybody for $25. Rob Belyea has already put in a ton of time at no compensation. Neither Dick Haines nor Russ had this quality information to work with. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 08:29:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:52:35 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:55:26 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:10:54 -0400 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:14:38 -0500 >>Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petitioning The White House >Previously, Serge Salvaille wrote: >>>>In my opinion SETI is a $100-million adventure based on a 1950 >>>>cheap b-zone sci-fi hypothesis. SETI got 30 years of research >>>>and came out empty-handed. The funny part is that its promoters >>>>still have credibility. Most scientists and researchers in the >>>>FOIA adventure on UFOs came out with their hands full but with >>>>_no_ credibility. >> >Doc Barry chimed in with: >>>I agree with Serge. SETI is a joke, a waste of time, money, and >>>talent, period. == Doc Barr >Stan's response: >>Right on. SETI really stands for Silly Effort To Investigate. >>The SETI cultists assume radio is the ultimate in communication, >>even though any study of technological progress indicates that >>progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable >>way. The future is NOT an extrapolation of the past. >Stan, I respect your research efforts and feel that you've >brought alot to the ufology scene. But I have to disagree with >you on this. >I believe that SETI has great potential and should receive >funding to continue its efforts; it does no harm to listen or >try to communicate with whatever is "out there". I also agree >that terrestrial based UFO research should get funding as well, >if not more. The fact that it doesn't isn't the fault of SETI or >its member or supporters. And let's face it, SETI isn't getting >THAT much funding for its 30 year effort and you know it; though >compared to the squat resources allocated for terrestrial UFO >visitation research, it is a fortune. >As for your claim that SETI advocates "assume radio is the >ultimate in communcation"; sorry, but you are just plain wrong. >RF is simply the tool at hand. We either use it or we remain >mute. Personally, I see no harm in trying to say hello to our >neighbors, whether they be far away on another planet or close >by in a space craft. If they are advanced enough, they will >recognize our primative attempts using RF and will reciprocate >if they are interested. Perhaps they will use RF at first, then >teach us something more sophisticated. It's simple, it's logical >and it's the path of least resistance for both humans and ETs. >>For those who are upset by my use of the word cult, consider the >>attributes of a cult: Charismatic leadership (Sagan, Tartar, >>Drake etc); Strong dogma ( life out there using radio to try to >>connect with us; no colonization, no migration, no other means >>of communication, NO VISITS to Earth), and certainly a strong >>resistance to contrary views. >Right, Stan, and every portly gentleman with a white beard is >Santa. >Please, in this day and age, if it walks like a duck and quacks >like a duck it only means that it has the basic characteristics >of a duck and nothing more. SETI has had some high profiled >advocates with questionable agendas but that means nothing; so >has Ufology. If it meant anything at all, then the peole of the >Soviet Union must be as stupid as their high profile leaders and >we Americans must all think like the President, since he >represents us publicly. >Get my point? >>Almost all SETI Cultists strongly attack ufology though they >>never reference the scientific work, but rather focus on tabloid >>nonsense. >>Sagan's most cited source about UFOs, in 'Demon Haunted World', >>is the tabloid 'Weekly World News'. He doesn't mention the >>Congressional Hearings of l968, nor the AAAS Sessions of l969, >>though he participated in both and Edited the Conference >>Proceedings for the latter. >"Almost all SETI Cultists..."? >Based on what research, Stan? What cross section of SETI >advocates did you poll to come up with that statement? More to >the point, though I support SETI, I'd hardly consider myself a >"cultist" as I, and all other SETI supporters I know, ALSO >believe in the existence of UFO visitations and feel such events >should be studied. >In fact, I find your use of the word "cultists" somewhat >disturbing since it promotes an atmosphere of "us against them". >Isn't that what we are all trying to avoid? Look back in your >own culture and examine the effect that categorizing has on a >given society scrambling for limited resources. Such name >calling and stereotyping accomplishes nothing but division and >competition for status within a group. >In fact, if SETI is such a monumental waste of time, then why >bitch about it so much; it should be no threat to Ufology. On >the contrary, SETI steals nothing from UFOlogy and, if >successful, could be the catalyst for the release of tons of UFO >information now considered classified. Isn't that what you, I, >and every other Ufologist wants? >Or is there fear that SETI might be successful in making contact >first or, at least, getting the credit? >If this is what everything comes down to, "getting the credit", >then we should all hang our heads in shame. In the study of UFOs >and extraterrestrial intelligence, egos and pettiness should be >checked at the door, guys. >How about it, Stan? Isn't there room for everyone, regardless of >their methods? Shouldn't the term "cultists" be avoided since >you really can't back up the claim that every SETI supporter >feels as you say they do? >I understand the frustration regarding the imbalance of funding >for SETI and Ufology, but name calling or cancellation of SETI >won't change a damn thing and certainly won't provide Ufology >with the respect it so desperately wants and deserves. >Tolerance is a fundable requirement for any communication with >other beings. >And I ain't talking 'bout ETs.... >Roger Evans, >Houston, Texas Roger, I am convinced that one of the reasons that ufology is so poorly treated by mainstream media and some of the scientific community is the constant refrain of disdain from Drake, Tartar, Sagan etc. Last I heard we were dealing here with SETI not CETI (C for Communication). We have astronomers not only trashing the possibility of interstellar travel (about which they know nothing) but telling us how aliens would behave, about which they know even less. My 1973 paper "Ufology and Search for ET Intelligent Life" delves in detail into the SETI Community not just the big names. Carl Sagan in his October, l994,Scientific American article about SETI even defines it as ".. an attempt to use large radio telescopes, sophisticated receivers, and modern data analysis to detect hypothetical signals sent our way by advanced civilizations on planets around other stars". No room for visitors here. It is not the money I object to, since it is indeed peanuts. It is the attitude from on high. The Aircraft Nuclear Propulsion program I worked on in the late 1950s for GE was spending 100,000,000 per year and employed 3500 people of whom 1100 were engineers and scientists. I know many people with a strong interest in UFOs who follow the SETI Literature. I know very few SETI Specialists (cultists is indeed derogatory, even if deserved) who follow either the UFO literature or the interstellar travel literature, or the national security issues.Of course I am equally derogatory about UFO cultists. One problem that comes up all the time in my travels is that people automatically assume that the 2 questions "Is anybody out there?" and "Is anybody coming here?" are the same. They are not SETI Specialists answer "Yes" to the first and "NO!" to the second. Serious ufologists say "Yes." to both. Somebody has to stand up and say The Emperor isn't wearing any clothes. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Christophe Meessen <meessen@cppm.in2p3.fr> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:24:28 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:56:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth Hello, >Sorry, but Terry Dickinson and I both looked at Joachim's work >years ago and found it not to have merit for a bunch of reasons. >The portrayal above of the conversation with the alien is >fictional. It was based on the reading of Joachim's document. I have no access to Fuller's book here. You made a point, I should check it before spreading this information any further. But your argument saying you and other guys checked it and concluded the theory had to be rejected does not impress me by itself. I would like to hear some more substantial arguments explainign _why_ you concluded that the theory proposed by Joachim does not hold. Like planets position not matching the map, etc. I also want to make clear that the point in question is : does the map represent our solar system at a given date in 1961 ? We are not considering the question where the map comes from, etc. This question should be easy to answer, no ? >Try looking at the ZRI booklet or better yet 'The Interrupted >Journey' by John Fuller. Marge Fish's work had also been >carefully considered and passes muster. Could you give me the URL to this information ? I'm also interested in the fuller's book An Interupted Journey. Is this book still available ? Maybe we can keep this discussion of the list if you prefer. Bien cordialement,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 28 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:18:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:58:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:21:18 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> >>Barney Hill, husband to Betty Hill, their story was distilled >>into a book and movie, called Interupted Journey, Barney was a >>blackman. >OK, so that's one very easy answer, we're impressed. But as the >population of the USA is - what? - 20 percent of Afro-American >lineage there must be hundreds more, so can we have a lot more >names please. Of course, if you can't come up with many more it >might suggest that the abduction experience has a - gulp! - >strong *psychosocial* element. Or is it just that the Greys >aren't equal opportunity abductors? > >-- John Rimmer Magonia On-Line, Or, sigh, that African-Americans don't report abductions -- a point that's already been made in a couple of posts. In New York, very few African-Americans go to professional sports events, even though there's no doubt they're fans. When I wrote a piece some years ago about African-Americans in classical music, I was told that very few African-Americans who love classical music ever go to classical concerts. They don't feel welcome in prestigious concert halls. In any case, the psychosocial presumption conceals another one, which we shouldn't feel we're in any position to make -- that, assuming abductions were real, as many blacks would get abducted as whites. How can we assume such a thing? How can we assume that aliens, about whom we know nothing, would abduct all types of humans equally? Here's a more productive approach to the initial question, about who allegedly gets abducted. When abductees report seeing other abductees on the alien UFOs -- sometimes in huge numbers -- what proportion of blacks do they see? And does this answer vary, depending on the race of the abductee reporting it? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 UASR - CAUS - UFOnetwork Statement From: "[UASR]> Perry van den Brink" <UASR@gmx.net> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:55:59 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:34:22 -0500 Subject: UASR - CAUS - UFOnetwork Statement Ufoseek@aol.com wrote: >Perry van den Brink wrote >(regarding the banning of CAUS from his mailinglist) > >Here are some Quotes from the official UASR welcomes letter: > > > > ANYONE WHO BREAKS THESE RULES IS SUBJECT TO HAVING HIS/HER > > FEED OR POSTING PRIVILEGE TO UASR CUT PERMANENTLY OR PUT ON > > PROBATION, **** WITHOUT WARNING **** >Specfically, what is the rule that CAUS was in violation of? Not rule, rules. Plural. 1/ Several off-topics were posted over the months. In view of CAUS updates being a mailing list and not a member posting single messages, we tolerated the off-topics since the only way to remove them was by monitoring each mail and only forward those that were relevant to the list - a very time-consuming job. I am referring here specifically to the NON-UFO CAUS Sunday updates. 2/ Irrelevant and possibly inflammatory mail was sent by Peter of CAUS to UASR (this post was even sent twice). I quote: ------------QUOTE----------------- Posted by : UFOLAWYER1@aol.com In a message dated 11/9/98 7:22:12 PM Mountain Standard Time, andross@steelcity.net writes: << CAUS. You do not have my permission to forward anything from my web site until you get permission. >> This the third e-mail you sent me today. You are wasting my time with your petty selfishness. CAUS has permission by a higher authority than you, my less than cosmic friend. I am tempted to use your information just so you would sue me. In a lawsuit the truth about you and your souce would be revealed. So go ahead my friend...sue me. Remember I do not have to pay attorney's fees. I expect an apology and any other information you might have on this subject. My telephone number is 520-284-5248. Peter --------UNQUOTE----------- This post was totally irrelevant to the subject matter of the UASR list - if Peter/CAUS wants to violate copyright laws by posting stuff he found on a site and forward it without the author's permission, and debate that issue with the owner of the copyright, that is his business, not ours. I am still puzzled as to his claiming to have a higher authority, one that apparently (as in: according to him) surpasses international copyright laws. Since CAUS admits to violating said copyright, I find it confusing he should demand an apology from the person whose rights he violated, and would term the above mail as inflammatory. 3/ In view of the fact that CAUS was posting material without permission, we did not want to be put in the position where we too, albeit only as an intermediary, were reproducing copyrighted material by forwarding CAUS postings. 4/ Further we found that the informative character of the CAUS emails was decreasing over the months and we did not feel that the small amount of on-topic and relevant parts of the emails warranted us keeping the flood of emails from CAUS coming to our list. We do not like to waste our members' time and money. >A mailing list owner has the right to editorial control. >I would like to think this was meant to apply to content that may >be repetitive, inflammatory, verbally abusive or on another topic not >suitable or relevant for the list. Cfr what I wrote above - some of what you say is true of the CAUS emails, which means that you agree with us. Thank you. >Members of a mailing list are entitled to read submissions from responsible >and member parties and this material should be presented in the interest of >fairness to opposing points of view and free speech. But why does UASR >make an example of CAUS, an organization that has done some serious >research in the past and has presently filed several lawsuits against the >US Army, CIA, FBI, We specifically stated that we would start posting CAUS updates again if and when CAUS goes back to what it originally was set up for. >and NSA? Peter Gersten is entitled to have his views aired on this list, >even if Mr. van den Brink disagrees. Since our announcement, we have received quite a few emails on the subject, and we have found that of all the UASR members only one disagreed with our decision, while the others wholeheartedly agreed and voiced far stronger objections to receiving any further email from CAUS then we did. So here it's not a matter of the list owner (and the moderators) being the only one, on the contrary... >What UASR has done is outright censorship and authoritarian in a totalitarian >sense! They have become biased to certain points of view and will restrict >information before it can be considered by their own members. This is an >abhorrent policy and must be condemned! (irregardless of it being a privately >owned list) What you are implying is that every author has the right to sue every publisher for not wishing to reproduce his work? Is there a legal precedent? Signed, Lieve Peten, Dave Pigott, Perry van den Brink, Moderators & owner UASR UASR@gmx.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> Date: Sat 28 Nov, 1998 8:01 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:36:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:57:16 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:40:21 EST >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:31:27 -0800 >>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >>>Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>>>To: Roger R. Prokic <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>>>From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> >>>>Date: Mon 23 Nov, 1998 14:53 >>>>This page at Malin Space Science Systems has a movie that shows >>>>the Mars Descent Imager Entry, Descent & Landing test results >>>>for the Mars Polar Lander. >>>>http://www.msss.com/stuff/edl4/ >>>>I wonder if this could be another sign for CAUS. >>>>Roger R. Prokic >>>>Telecom Design Lead >>>>Mars Surveyor Program >>>>Lockheed Martin Astronautics >>>>Denver, Colorado USA >>>>-=[ sent from a 3Com Palm III & Multimail Pro v2.11b ]=- >>>Dear Roger: >>>All I see is a clumsily animated grey alien 'waving' at me in >>>front of what looks like a radar dish. >>>Is that the joke? >>>- Larry Hatch >>>= = = = >>Larry and List: >>Whew! I dunno about yous guys but I started waving to the >>little bastard just as soon as the image started to load. And >>the strangest and most wondeful miracle occurred..... > >>HE WAVED BACK! >>Jim Mortellaro, AKA >>Dr. Gesundt, Canal Street UFO and Fresh Wine Merchants >Dear Jim: >I'm still confused ( befuddled? ) >What does the waving grey alien have to do with Malin Space >Sciences? Was this image actually on their website? Yes it is on their website. Roger R. Prokic Telecom Design Lead Mars Surveyor Program Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA -=[ sent from a 3Com Palm III & Multimail Pro v2.11b ]=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:05:01 +1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:40:35 -0500 Subject: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia tkbnetw@fan.net.au ************************************************************* Australian UFO Research Network Hot Line Number 1800 77 22 88 Free Call ************************************************************* Sighting Report:UFOICQ (U/I) CE1 Strathpine, Brisbane Queensland 18th 11.1998 Time 3.35am Tony Tinnis Stated he is a Christian and does not believe in UFOs, but I was travelling down the Bruce HWY to the Strathpine exit going to work when I saw an object, Colour, gun metal gray and fluorescent Blue, Shaped like a round bowl with a rime around it. He said he, I could see it very clearly, and it was very low about half a mile of the ground. It was travelling on a straight line towards Toowoomba He said, I saw it for 2.5 to 3 sec I noticed a bluish gas flame 2 meters long half no clouds. He said a car overtook him And they must have seen it to because when he passed he was weaving all over the road. .NL. Breakfast Creek, Hamilton Road, Brisbane (U/I) NL 14.11.98 Time 7.40pm Source: UFOICQ Robert Dean 2 Bright Lights side by side white in colour the size of a 5 cent piece at arm's length one light appeared to cross over the other and then it disappeared . Crestmead, Brisbane NL, 16th. 10.98 Time 7.13pm Source: UFOICQ Bruce Willor Orange light, bit bigger than a star , a lot higher than a plane was moving East to south Was watched for 5 minutes then it disappeared. Goodna, Brisbane NL, 6th. 10.98 Time 3.00am Source: UFOICQ 4 objects seen in formation going from South to North east, they appeared to move slowly. Observed for 6 seconds or more from bedroom window, clear night, no sound was heard. Anns Street, Brisbane NL, (U/I) 1st.10.98 Time 9.15pm Source: UFOICQ Jim Skordou Said he was sitting with friends at a Restaurant at West End when he saw a Bright Orange light out towards St. Lucia way. The object seemed to have something fall of it and what ever it was it then disappeared . The light just vanished it was witnessed by 6 people. Wynnum West, Brisbane NL, 26th .9.98 Time 10.30pm Source: UFOICQ M Holscher I was with a friend Doug on Whites Road opposite the Hospital when I was 2 orange lights travelling from the Bay to the City, there was no noise, they where same distance apart they looked like fire. Lowood , East of Brisbane NL, 26th .9.98 Time 12.00am Source: UFOICQ Troy & Gail Monathan We where travelling from Lowood to Bright View (near Ipswich) when we saw 2 orange lights same distance apart, they where moving West to North, we stopped the car, we heard no noise but the lights turned left and went very high until out of sight. Salisbury, Brisbane NL, 7th.9.98 Time 10.25pm Source: UFOICQ Caroline Hapimmana 4 to 5 Blue grey lights moving to one, then separating and joining again they looked to be over Marooka looking North she said they did not look like a light but like a movement in the sky?. Phone message. From Diane Harrison & Robert Frola Directors: UFO Investigation Centre Queensland Australia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Ramey Message Scan On Web From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:39:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:42:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Ramey Message Scan On Web Neil, Thanks so much for making this available. With a 56k modem, a 2.5 meg download doesn't take very long. I notice that the file is in GIF format, which isn't ideal. It compresses the picture, reducing the color palette to (at most) 256 shades of gray. Is there any chance you can get a version of the scan in TIFF or BMP format, uncompressed? The download would take a while longer, but the extra time would be worthwhile, for possible added detail. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:54:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:44:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:10:15 -0400 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:51:35 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:49:47 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >>>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:02:49 +0100 >>>>Subject: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>Unfortunately Gliese 86 was not on the Hill map. Betty Hill >>made two drawings, one of which had the stellar assignations >>and the other did not. Neither shows Gliese 86. This is from >>Fuller's book, "Incident at Exeter" Subtitled "The Interrupted >>Journey." ><snip> >Sorry Jim, there is nothing about Marge Fish's work in 'The >Interrupted Journey'. >Betty tried to link what she drew to a NY Times article. Bad >idea. >You need to go to my early SAGA article, hard to get, or to the >Terence Dickinson article. Gliese 86 is definitely part of the >map. For your benefit gentlepeople, From Terence Dickinson's "The Zeta Reticuli Incident", here is the list of all the alledged stars in Betty Hill's map (from the work of Marjorie Fish): Zeta 2 Reticuli Zeta 1 Reticuli Alpha Mensae Sun 82 Eridani Tau Ceti 107 Piscium 54 Piscium Gliese 67 Gliese 86 Tau 1 Eridani Gliese 59 Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:27:01 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:49:07 -0500 Subject: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:30:43 EST >Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:00:07 -0500 >Subject: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! Previously, Doc offered: >>If SETI announces the discovery of the signal to mainstream >>science, what will happen? The acceptance that the signal is >>from an intelligent extraterrestrial civilization will require >>study by mainstream science. Gerg responded: >Quite correct, Doc. And, as our esteemed colleague Roger pointed >out in another post: >>When SETI or the study of UFOs shows an immediate potential for >>a marketable technology, big business will mow down scientists >>in the >>frenzy to capitalize on this new found commodity. >I recommend the SETI folks begin "breath holding lessons" in >preparation for that fateful day. We can easily extrapolate from >the treatment given ufology by mainstream science, debunkers, >and the press to forsee what SETI will have to endure. Doc Barry had also opined: >>Can you picture the headlines? -- "SETI Announces Discovery of >>ET Signal". The next day's headlines may read -- "Authenticity >>of SETI Signal is Questioned". Then SETI will have the struggle >>to see what science will accept as evidence. Will taped sounds >>and lines on viewing screens prove ET contact to mainstream >>science? SETI will have a tough struggle convincing science, if >>they ever do get a signal. It may take 50 years of discussion, >>as evidence submitted by Ufology has taken 50 years and it still >>is not accepted. Greg's conclusion: >Bravo. Don't forget, one hoax has already set SETI back 100 >years. <snip> Hi, Greg. If SETI's one hoax equals a 100 year set back, then no wonder UFOlogy is hard pressed to move forward. The hundreds of hoaxes it has endured over the years obviously adds up to a stunning 10,000 year set back for ufology, using the formula you just provided. Just joking (as I'm sure your were?). My previous post offered several counterpoints to, what I felt, was sincere but faulty logic on the part of you and Doc. I feel, as you do, that ufology is getting a raw deal as it relates to a lack of resources and respect within the scientific community. But slamming SETI, whining about funding and making it out to be the "competition" is counter productive. I find it interesting that the above post reflects more butt-slappin' and high-five'n than any real counterpoint to my views, either philosophical or scientific. Greg, you and Doc are intelligent people with obvious passion for your beliefs. You two can do better than that! Show me why you feel SETI is such a threat to ufology beyond a simple just-because type reasoning. More to the point, if SETI comes up with something that supports and bolsters ufology's position, is it your intent to reject such information simply because it came from SETI? Everyone, including all the SETI supporters I know (which are many) acknowledge the evidence of UFOs in our airspace and are frustrated by the lack of cooperation on the part of the government concerning ufology's attempts to study such occurances. No offense, but where do you or Doc or Serge or Stan or anyone else get off blaming SETI for ufology's problems? I'll say this again: The problem isn't with the existence of SETI or what it is trying to achieve or the money it receives. The problem is how little funding and resources Ufology has at its disposal and the unfair lack of recognition and respect in garnishes in the scientific community. If SETI dissappeared tomorrow, without a memory or a trace, Ufology's problems would still be with us. Best wishes, Roger Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 98 11:20:40 PST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:53:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:21:18 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:09:13 -0500 (EST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: _Almost_ Everybody! >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Abduction of Blacks? >>>From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:19:25 -0200 >>>Subject: Abduction of Blacks? >>>Hello everybody, >>>Today in Brazil is 'Black Consciousness Day'. >>>I was wondering if anyone had heard of the abduction of somebody >>>of black skin? >>>Thiago Ticchetti >>>* Eles est=E3o aqui * <snip> >>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >>The Hill Case - of course. >><<<>>> >>From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> >>Barney Hill, husband to Betty Hill, their story was distilled >>into a book and movie, called Interupted Journey, Barney was a >>blackman. >OK, so that's one very easy answer, we're impressed. But as the >population of the USA is - what? - 20 percent of Afro-American >lineage there must be hundreds more, so can we have a lot more >names please. Of course, if you can't come up with many more it >might suggest that the abduction experience has a - gulp! - >strong *psychosocial* element. Or is it just that the Greys >aren't equal opportunity abductors? > >-- John Rimmer Magonia On-Line, >a division of the P.L.A. Driftwood Cartel >www.magonia.demon.co.uk Hi, John, Nah. First of all the population of the United States is not 20% African-American; it's about half that. Second, there are black abductees, as Budd Hopkins and others have been telling us forever. (Years ago Budd even had a letter published in the NY Times Book Review on nonwhite abductees he'd worked with, after a reviewer of Missing Time expressed the mistaken view that all of Hopkins's abductees were white.) Third, no one has kept statistics. Fourth, investigators writing about specific abductees may not even be mentioning their racial backgrounds (as, for example, Hopkins does not), just as mainstream media accounts in this country (I don't know about Britain) do not mention somebody's racial background unless it is crucial to the story, for fear of being accused of bringing in irrelevant detail which some could construe as ultimately racist in motivation. Fifth, as for the "psychosocial" element, other list contributors have pointed to all sorts of cultural reasons why black abductees might be hesitant to report experiences to overwhelmingly white ufologists (just as black crime victims tend to under-report their experiences to largely white police forces). I assume, alas, that this is not the sort of "psychosocial" aspect to which our friend is here alluding. I fear that he's going for something far more dramatic. Whatever is behind abduction reports (and I'm open to reasonable arguments, of which John seems not to be advancing one here), it appears to affect people pretty much across the spectrum. I do recall, however, an amusing piece by Peter Rogerson in Magonia (the always interesting magazine John edits), wherein it was argued -- to all appearances without tongue in cheek -- that Americans imagine they are being abducted because they deeply fear Hispanic immigrants. Ah, yes, the insights we get from psychosocial ufology; what would we do without them? Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:03:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 01:31:24 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:52:48 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement <snip> >Editorial control becomes censorship when alternate points of >view are restricted or suppressed. This is what we in the UFO >community are fighting against, suppression of beliefs and >truth. When we start to discriminate against the point of view >or beliefs of organizations in our own little neighborhood we >become divided and play into the opposition's hand. I know you >didn't see it that way, but I hope you understand my point and >clarify your position to the mainstream. > >Ignatius Graffeo >UFOSEEK Let's try to understand some of the dynamics involved here. Editorial Control IS a form of censorship. Period. Whenever editorial control is exercized it, by definition, is the promotion of a viewpoint. That view can be broadly, or narrowly, based. But it is always viewed by those who've been restricted as censorship. This is a control that is most prevelent in the print media, but is now becoming prominent on the Internet as well (primarily to keep the noise level to a minimum). If one doesn't agree with the newspaper they get, they switch newspapers to one that they agree with. This is true for Internet lists as well. Could you define the "little neighborhood" that we are all allegedly a part of? As I read the USAR message, it was fairly clear that they no longer considerred the CAUS organization to be on the right track in the search for the truth (whatever that means), and they have chosen to not waste their time, or the time of their readers, with the information that CAUS is putting out. They indicate that they will monitor the information put out by CAUS and they'll include those elements that are deemed to be appropriate. One of the serious problems we have on the "net" in this genre is the continual rehash of information that has been debated endlessly. As new people enter the conversation, the many agruments that have taken up so much bandwidth in the past become repeated in their entirety. This re-ignites fueds and arguments, and sometimes those fires burn for quite a while before they die out. If we were thrown into an ocean of the facets of this genre that we all can agree on, we wouldn't get the bottoms of our feet wet. If anyone (including CAUS) comes up with a "smoking gun" I suspect it will be touted loudly on the "net", and would receive far more recognition than it would get by its inclusion in USAR. But we are instead discussing the rationality of how unfair it is to prevent the redistribution of information that has become left out due to editorial license. If we could spend as much energy trying to "define the genre" that we are investigating and establish "rules of evidence", it is my opinion that we'd be far better off. Sorry for the interruption. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 14:00:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 01:56:54 -0500 Subject: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:30:43 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >>From: Doc Barry <authority@webtv.net> >> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:25:20 -0700 (MST) >>To: Updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: When SETI gets an ET signal! >>If SETI announces the discovery of the signal to mainstream >>science, what will happen? The acceptance that the signal is >>from an intelligent extraterrestrial civilization will require >>study by mainstream science. >Quite correct, Doc. And, as our esteemed colleague Roger pointed >out in another post: >>When SETI or the study of UFOs shows an immediate potential for >>a marketable technology, big business will mow down scientists in the >>frenzy to capitalize on this new found commodity. >I recommend the SETI folks begin "breath holding lessons" in >preparation for that fateful day. We can easily extrapolate from >the treatment given ufology by mainstream science, debunkers, >and the press to forsee what SETI will have to endure. >Doc, you also wrote: >>Can you picture the headlines? -- "SETI Announces Discovery of >>ET Signal". The next day's headlines may read -- "Authenticity >>of SETI Signal is Questioned". Then SETI will have the struggle >>to see what science will accept as evidence. Will taped sounds >>and lines on viewing screens prove ET contact to mainstream >>science? SETI will have a tough struggle convincing science, if >>they ever do get a signal. It may take 50 years of discussion, >>as evidence submitted by Ufology has taken 50 years and it still >>is not accepted. >Bravo. Don't forget, one hoax has already set SETI back 100 >years. Guess that means they've hired Thomas Edison now or >something. >I have an idea. Lets have each camp elect a representative to be >sent into a boxing ring to settle it mano e mano. Winner takes >all available funding....oh, and a cool belt. >Whaddya say Stanton? You seem pretty spry, think you could take >Captain SETI? >Greg I have already done debates with Peter Brookesmith at Oxford University Debating Society (we got 60% of the vote), with Phil Klass at Trinity University, with 3 professors vs Tim Good, Nick Pope and me in the UK on TV 90 minutes. 92% of 100,000 callers said yes to the Question Do you think aliens are visiting Earth. Sure in a war of ideas, any time. Stan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:32:48 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:08:46 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 98 16:43:23 PST >Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:54:17 -0500 >Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >>Previously Larry Hatch offered: >>>>For the life of me, I cannot understand some of the anti-SETI >>>>messages recently. >>Serge's rather rude response was: >>>Then I suggest you read the posts more carefully and try to >>>understand the situation. >>>Any 30 years $100-million flopped project supported by >>>mainstream science on the hypothesis of extra-terrestrial life >>>must be questioned by people involved in a 50 years $0.00 >>>research who came up with evidence - people who are still >>>laughed at by the same SOBs who support the fore-mentioned >>>project. My response was: >>Time out, Serge. >>You make a pretty strong accusation. Please give us names of any >>SETI supporters that laugh at terrestrial based UFO research. My >>money is on the bet that you can't. In fact, I'd go so far as to >>say that everyone I know that supports SETI also supports the >>investigation of UFO sightings and encounters. True, SETI has >>received the lion's share of the funding, but $100 million is >>squat for 30 years work. No one, including SETI members, is >>saying that terrestrial based UFO research doesn't deserve >>funding, also. The fact that UFO researchers don't get it is not >>SETI's fault. Your grudge is with the wrong people. Grow up. Jerry responded: >Wow. I am at a loss to understand any of the above paragraph. >I've read a reasonable amount of the SETI literature, and >overwhelmingly, the attitude toward UFOs and UFO research is (a) >ignorant and (b) hostile. A rare exception is the British >popular science writer Edward Ashpole, who has done books on >SETI and one (sympathetic to the ETH) on the UFO phenomenon. >There is, in fairness, astronomer/SETI historian Steven Dick, >who while more or less skeptical is not notably hostile toward >ufology, and he does know the subject. Far more typical, >however, is Jill Tartar's boast of close- mindedness where UFO >reports are concerned, or Carl Sagan's many and tiresome >fulminations. <snip> First, I doubt very seriously if you had any trouble understanding what I said in the above paragraph. But, I'll admit, it is much easier if you read it in context with Serge's _very_ rude comments. When I speak of "SETI supporters", I don't mean high profile individuals or organizations with their own agendas. I'm talking about average folk. Both SETI and Ufology have their share of nut-niks that like to stir up trouble. But they are hardly the majority in either group, and I think you know that. Why do I think you know that? While you included Serge's comments that supported your point of view, you left out Serge's petty desire that SETI fail to make contact with exterrestrial life. It's a pretty lame-ass wish, don't you think, for someone supposedly concerned with making contact as soon as possible. Are you afraid that people reading this will think him typical of all Ufologists? Think about it. >SETI has many critics within mainstream science, though >you'd not know that from the breathlessly uncritical accounts >you'll find in popular media treatments of the subject. Let me get this straight. When someone, such as Ed Stewart, is critical of you and your research, you often point out the complementary writings and reviews of your books; your defense is dependent on taking said articles at face value. On the other hand, articles that don't reflect your view of SETI or its critics are considered suspect and should not be taken at face value? Why? If said articles don't criticize SETI or point out SETI critics, then why are they popular and abundant in mainstream media? Could it be because the majority of average readers and UFO enthusiasts support both the SETI efforts and the efforts of UFology? And as you pointed out above, there are some higher profile people such as Ashpole and Dick that don't dog SETI and exhibit a more justifiable "wait and see" attitude. Why focus on fringe idiots and zealots of SETI. These people are no more typical of SETI supporters than Ed Stewart or Robert Todd are as representatives for Ufology (or Serge, I hope). >One >clear reason, it seems to me, that SETIans are unfriendly >to UFO research is that, in the grand tradition of "anomaly >snobbism" (William Corliss's phrase), they're seeking to >establish their legitimacy by dissing another, possibly >related subject which like SETI is often seen as fringish. Have you read Serge's post or any of the other posts in this thread? It's obvious to me the only dissing going on is some bitter members of ufology trying to blame SETI for the lack of funding and respect ufology rightly deserves within the scientific community. As I pointed out in another post, SETI could dissappear tomorrow and ufology will still have all the problems it has always endured. Regarding the "fringe zealots" out there, I don't think either SETI or ufology can withstand that kind of scrutiny of its members. I feel that the majority of enthusists in both groups...no, let me rephrase that because I don't want to promote the idea that there are two competing groups...I feel that most "ET enthusiasts" are open to results from either SETI or Ufology. Like me, they could care less who makes contact first or who proves alien life. The only people that seem to really care who gets credit are the people competing for the credit. To this end I feel any ufologist that feels threatened by SETI needs to rethink his/her priorities and goals. The same goes for SETI members regarding Ufology. Later, Roger Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 14:36:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:11:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:21:18 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:09:13 -0500 (EST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: _Almost_ Everybody! >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Abduction of Blacks? >>>From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:19:25 -0200 >>>Subject: Abduction of Blacks? >>>Hello everybody, >>>Today in Brazil is 'Black Consciousness Day'. >>>I was wondering if anyone had heard of the abduction of somebody >>>of black skin? >>> Thiago Ticchetti >>>* Eles est=E3o aqui * >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>Yeah, Barney Hill for starters! >>Silly question. >>Bob >><<<>>> >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Well, Barney Hill, for one. >>Jerry Clark >><<<>>> >>Message-ID: <7c13d855.3655bf1a@aol.com> >>Sure, Barney Hill. >>KRandle >><<<>>> >>From: Craig Haynie <ccHaynie@ix.netcom.com> >>Barney Hill was allegedly abducted in 1961, in the first reported >>abduction case. >><<<>>> >>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >>The Hill Case - of course. > >><<<>>> >>From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> >>Barney Hill, husband to Betty Hill, their story was distilled >>into a book and movie, called Interupted Journey, Barney was a >>blackman. >OK, so that's one very easy answer, we're impressed. But as the >population of the USA is - what? - 20 percent of Afro-American >lineage there must be hundreds more, so can we have a lot more >names please. Of course, if you can't come up with many more it >might suggest that the abduction experience has a - gulp! - >strong *psychosocial* element. Or is it just that the Greys >aren't equal opportunity abductors? > >-- John Rimmer Magonia On-Line, >a division of the P.L.A. Driftwood Cartel >www.magonia.demon.co.uk Hello John, You ought to take the time to go to the archive and read the whole thread before posting! See responses from Greg Sandow, myself, and others to this thread _then_ get back to us. <G> Peace, John Velez, Puerto Rican abductee ;-) ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net INTRUDERS FOUNDATION/ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:28:37 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:18:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:58:38 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:51:35 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>These creatures (I refer to Grays) have short bodies, long and >>very slim legs and arms, large eyes, etc. These are descriptions >>about which we are all aware. I cannot for the life of me but >>wonder why some theorizing has not been done on these >>pohotos. >>Hello? Anybody out there with some theories? >>Jim Mortellaro >Sure, Jim... >I would suggest that their appearence, suggests a subterranean >culture..... >They have large eyes, which would work well in a low light >environment. >They have no hair, which would also suggest they need no >protection from the elements. >They have grey skin, again suggesting a life form raised in an >environment which lacks pigmentation...a low light environment. >Need I say more??? <G> >REgards, Mike >ICQ#:7508455. >(502) 683-6811 ========================================> Howdy Michael... Actually yes. One of the planets astronomers recently discovered appears to be a gas giant, perhaps a Saturn or Big Jup type planet. The gravity on this type world would likely be very high. Would these creatures, as we have seen them described, be able to live on such a world? (hypothetically) One would assume that on a world with more than two or three G's, an entity might be stocky and heavily muscled. Perhaps not. I do not know. I was hoping someone(s) has done some thinking and/or research along these lines. However your opine is appreciated, thank you Sir. It would be nice to know as much as possible, about my hosts. Knowledge is power they say. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 November/December BARs to be Combined From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:47:36 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:50:59 -0500 Subject: November/December BARs to be Combined Bufo Calvin P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo calvin<;/a> ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it). This was delayed because I tried something which I should have known wouldn't work. That also resulted in non-delivery of last week's Media Alert ------ There will be a special holiday issue of Bufo's ANOMILT Review which will be for both November and December. It will come out earlier than usual in December. This e-mail is also a test of a new mailing system, which may repair the recent line break problems. I also am going to test inserting a link in this new system. I'm using a book by a psychic making the rounds. I heard him on a radio show, and if he wasn't using plants (callers who are in cahoots but pretend not to be), he was quite impressive. One Last Time (hardback) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0425169081/bufosweirdworld ___________________________ This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:07:52 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:42:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images >From: "Stan Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:58:21 -0400 Stan, old man - >Neither Dick Haines nor Russ had this quality information to >work with. >Stan Friedman So what did your scanning of the negative reveal? Can you detect anything on the negative that hasn't been discussed here? Can you make out the words to a degree that eliminates the ambiguity of the information? Seems to me that Russ Estes and Dick Haines were working with the best material they had to offer and those results have been posted. It also seems to me that some of the interpretations are in direct conflict with other interpretations. If you have a better interpretation, I know that I would like to hear what it is.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:03:01 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:53:41 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:03:39 -0500 Hi Greg, It's interesting to note that in the series of quotes you supplied (thanks, btw) that many of the SETI proponents expressed opinions closely paralleling those of most UFO researchers, in that they used phrases such as "most sightings" and "many sightings" being explainable as hoaxes or misidentified natural phenomena. Perhaps the main difference between the two camps lies in where to go with the remaining sightings. Ufology takes the more difficult route by not turning the other way when confronted with unexplainables. SETI folks apparently adopt the under-the-carpet approach. They must have very lumpy carpets. I also feel the need to point out your quote from Carl Sagan, at the very great personal risk of drawing more fire from those who worship at his shrine. "There isn't a smidgen of evidence of us being visited now or having been visited in the past. It's out of the question; there's just no evidence for it." Lots of finality from one unwilling to view the evidence he declared as non-existant. Hey, if I don't look at it, it ain't there. It's rather like a child hiding under the covers to keep ghosts and such at bay. I don't know if I'd characterize the majority of quotes you gave as hostile, I think they simply reflect a lack of familiarity with the subject of UFOs. Keep up the good work, and you were right about the need for people to brush up on SETI protocol, myself included. The Other Greg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Mars Marci Edl Movie From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net> Date: Sat 28 Nov, 1998 20:18 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:08:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Marci Edl Movie >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 20:30:31 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:57:16 -0800 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >>Dear Jim: >>I'm still confused ( befuddled? ) >>What does the waving grey alien have to do with Malin Space >>Sciences? Was this image actually on their website? >>- LH >Larry.... all I can say is go see it. There is this little >alien that pops up and waves at you. Now ask me when, where, >why and how. Damned if I have a clue! You just have to see it >yourself to believe it.... and yes, it is a joke I hope and >pray, because the last one of these little bastards that I saw >wasn't waving. Maybe it's a preview for who will greet the folks in Sedona, AZ on December 7th. Them buggers have already landed, and overthrown Malin's team perhaps.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 22:01:03 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:03:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:48:52 -0600 >Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:05:14 -0500 >Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie Previously, Roger Prokic wrote: >>I think it's a goof on the many believers of Hoagland's >>outlandish "religion" of the Face on Mars. Note Mike Malin made >>the instruments that showed us all how silly Hoagland really is. Michael's response: >Me thinks you protest Richard Hoagland's claims to much. You >make a point of posting your credentials after every message, as >though it "means something." Not to me it doesn't. Your's is >just another opinion. And, if I may say so, a very negavitistic, >slanderous opinion. I have not bothered to respond to your >replies previously, but I thought I would do so this time. All >one has to do is take the time to search out Richard Hoaglands >past credentials, and they will see that he has a history, not >only with NASA, but with CBS NEWS, the President's Scientific >Council with Space Research, as well as educational programs for >high school students in the 60's and 70's. >I am the first to admit that even though I am aware of his past >credentials, he seems to be "off his nut," to the average >scientific fundamentalist, in the "90's," the "age of >reintroduced darkness." <snip> Come on, man. Take a position on this! This whole nonsense of "I am the first to admit Hoagland seems odd to other people" is a dodge and you know it. Why dance around the topic? The question is do _you_ believe what Hoagland claims? Yes or no. It's that simple! If you do then admit your agenda. If not, then what's your beef? >At least, I write to you about you and afford you a right to >disagree with me...One time. Unless this post was originally meant as private Email, then you haven't written to Roger at all. There's nothing to keep you from communicating in private, so don't act so self-righteous regarding your intent. You wanted everyone to see your message _about_ (not _to_) Roger or you wouldn't have submitted it to the list. BTW, there's nothing preventing Hoagland from responding to anything that's written here. Considering his background you just laid out, I think he can deal with the technology. >After that, I am done. I will not engage in long drawn out >threads. How convenient.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:29:39 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:56:03 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:29:09 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: SETI Scientists Petition White House >>From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:46:15 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >>Please define a "credible peep". If all the evidence garnered by >>ufologists over the years doesn't qualify in the eyes of >>mainstream science as credible, then SETI hasn't got a prayer. >>You tell me what they can come up with that will interest >>science, and that can't be explained away by some eager >>debunker. They can't even define what they expect to find, let >>alone prove it to be extraterrestrial. At least ufologists >>already have something to attempt to explain. The phenomena >>already exists, putting ufology way ahead of the competition. >Dear Greg: >Well, how about a constant stream of bits, alternating >frequencies perhaps, obviously emanating from outside the Solar >System. >To gain credibility, it would have to be monitored by separate >receivers worldwide, over time. If we are lucky, the signal >will last long enough to prove its not a satellite ( obviously >moving with respect to the stars..) Other characearistics >would hopefully eliminate pulsars, quasars and other natural >phenomena. That sounds great Larry, it really does, but you're still engaging in hypothetical results. It hasn't happened yet. Ufology, on the other hand, has UFOs to attempt to explain already. As for "obviously emanating from outside the solar system", read the following piece written by Brian Zeiler: "For instance, if SETI receives an anomalous repeating signal with intelligent content such as a mathematical constant, and rules out all known causes of terrestrial and deep-space interference, do they need a chunk of the alien radio dish or a dead alien to attribute it to alien origin? It would be just as easy to apply UFO-skeptic logic and insist that the signal is nothing more than anomalous until we obtain physical proof of aliens; after all, why ascribe a radio signal to alien origin before we have physical proof of the existence of aliens? After all, we cannot rule out malfunction, fraud, or human error with 100% certainty, so the simplest explanation is an undetected flaw, not an alien message. Right?" Do you see what SETI faces if this does occur? It's a pipe dream to think they will have it any easier than ufology if they ever dare to make a claim. This is why it seems absurd (to me) to pursue alien signals. Ufology has accomplished a lot more with a lot less (undesirable elements notwithstanding). >Yes, the debunkers would fire away with both barrels, but now >they would have a tougher time of it; assuming the evidence is >really good. Ufology has "really good" evidence, some of it is even physical, contrary to statements made by certain lying astronomers and debunkers. Debunkers don't have a "tough time of it" because their analyses of sightings in most cases don't have to make sense or agree with the facts. They just have to sound good to an ill-informed public. In short, they don't have to play fair. Expect no less if SETI comes up with something interesting. >>By the way, the UFO/ET argument doesn't need bolstering when >>it's evidence is viewed fairly and open mindedly, without >>altering the facts to arrive at less threatening conclusions. >For us, perhaps. For many others not. That's one reason I see >SETI as a possible ( albeit highly unlikely ) way to bridge this >gap. An ET signal from many light years distance is less >'threatening' than a UFO landing. For psychological reasons >alone, this might open some minds to the UFO possibilities. It might, but probably not enough to make much of a difference. Most will see it getting the UFO treatment and continue to shy away. It's still alien talk, isn't it? >>Each religion is held near and dear to the hearts of those who >>follow them. Your statement is insensitive and insulting. >I don't think so. If (as you indicated) you aren't religious, then I'm not surprised. But, you seem to lack respect for the beliefs of others. Especially "idiotic" or "stupid" ones. >>Ufology and SETI are not similar. Ufology has _some_ evidence to >>support it's claims, while SETI hasn't even reached the point >>where claims can be made. If they are competing, then ufology >>has a distinct head start. >They are similar in that they both attempt to explore and prove >the existance of ET intelligence. Beyond that, they differ >greatly, I agree. They aren't very similar in that way either. Not all ufologists are trying to prove the ETH. Most are content to show some UFOs to be unexplainable, and let people draw their own conclusions as to origin. As for the rest, in my opinion, the weight of the evidence lends credence to the ETH and I understand the desire to pursue ufology to that end. SETI folks are all looking for alien signals. Not much variance there on motive. >I hope we can agree to disagree! Agreed. And your desire for SETI to achieve results is understandable when I consider your perspective. I also hope they get something, in spite of myself! I like space as much as the next guy. Yet, I still can't help feeling they're wasting their time, even if it IS their time to waste. With respect, Greg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 01:10:40 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:05:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:24:28 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Christophe Meessen <meessen@cppm.in2p3.fr> >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Hello, >>Sorry, but Terry Dickinson and I both looked at Joachim's work >>years ago and found it not to have merit for a bunch of reasons. >>The portrayal above of the conversation with the alien is >>fictional. >It was based on the reading of Joachim's document. I have no >access to Fuller's book here. >You made a point, I should check it before spreading this >information any further. >But your argument saying you and other guys checked it and >concluded the theory had to be rejected does not impress me by >itself. I would like to hear some more substantial arguments >explainign _why_ you concluded that the theory proposed by >Joachim does not hold. Like planets position not matching the >map, etc. >I also want to make clear that the point in question is : does >the map represent our solar system at a given date in 1961 ? We >are not considering the question where the map comes from, etc. >This question should be easy to answer, no ? >>Try looking at the ZRI booklet or better yet 'The Interrupted >>Journey' by John Fuller. Marge Fish's work had also been >>carefully considered and passes muster. >Could you give me the URL to this information ? >I'm also interested in the fuller's book An Interupted Journey. >Is this book still available ? >Maybe we can keep this discussion of the list if you prefer. >Bien cordialement, >Ch.Meessen =======================================> Christophe... you may try: MJF Books Fine Communications Two Lincoln Square 60 West 66Th Street NY, NY, 10023 USA This particular book is entitled: 'Incident at Exeter/The Interrupted Journey' The book combines both stories in one volume. It also contains the maps which were referred to in earlier posts... NY Times, Betty Hill's unmarked and Betty Hill's marked (with stellar assignations) in the photo gallery. It was in print as of last
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 22:30:51 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:10:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:24:28 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Christophe Meessen <meessen@cppm.in2p3.fr> >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>The portrayal above of the conversation with the alien is >>fictional. >It was based on the reading of Joachim's document. I have no >access to Fuller's book here. >>Try looking at the ZRI booklet or better yet 'The Interrupted >>Journey' by John Fuller. Marge Fish's work had also been >>carefully considered and passes muster. >Could you give me the URL to this information ? >I'm also interested in the fuller's book An Interupted Journey. >Is this book still available ? >Maybe we can keep this discussion of the list if you prefer. >Bien cordialement, >Ch.Meessen Christophe: The John Fuller book 'Interrupted Journey' has been out of print for over 30 years. Nevertheless, a hard-cover first edition ( somewhat stained) is available from Arcturus Books for $17.50 US. Bob Girard there also offers a book-club verion in "good" condition for $5.00. The address is: Arcturus Books 1443 S.E. Port St. Lucie Blvd., Port St. Lucie, FL 34592, USA. US shipping charges are an additional $4.00, all payments in US dollars. You can order via Mastercard or VISA credit cards to avoid high bank charges for money orders. I suggest you send $3.00 to the same address first, and request the Arcturus catalog. A new one just came out. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:27:00 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:17:26 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia Dear List readers: Perhaps unfairly, I wish to take a snippet out of the good message below, simply to make a small point. >From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> >To: UFO UpDates" <updates@globalserve.net>, >Subject: UFO Sighting over Brisbane. >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:05:01 +1000 >The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia >tkbnetw@fan.net.au >************************************************************* >Australian UFO Research Network Hot Line Number > 1800 77 22 88 Free Call >************************************************************* >Sighting Report:UFOICQ (U/I) CE1 >Strathpine, Brisbane Queensland 18th 11.1998 Time 3.35am >Tony Tinnis >Stated he is a Christian and does not believe in UFOs, but I was >travelling down the Bruce HWY to the Strathpine exit going to >work when I saw an object, Colour, gun metal gray and.. Did you catch that? Tony Tinnis "Is a Christian and doesn't believe in UFOs.." As a child, I heard statements like that, they usually ran something like : " Well, I'm a Christian and I don't hold up gas stations." - or - "I'm a Christian and I don't need a Ouija board to know that Christ is coming back." Do you catch my drift? A good Christian does not see or believe in UFOs. That is exactly the mindset I objected to on some earlier post. If 'Christians' can make such dumb statements, no doubt the members of other well-known religions can as well. the opposite may also happen at times! Once in a while, and perhaps by chance, a religionist or religious leader will make a sensible statement. Whenever that happens, I believe that they should be applauded, at least a little bit. With the very best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 01:08:36 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:21:49 -0500 Subject: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:27:01 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >>From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:30:43 EST >>Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:00:07 -0500 >>Subject: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >Previously, Doc offered: >>>If SETI announces the discovery of the signal to mainstream >>>science, what will happen? The acceptance that the signal is >>>from an intelligent extraterrestrial civilization will require >>>study by mainstream science. >Gerg responded: >>Quite correct, Doc. And, as our esteemed colleague Roger pointed >>out in another post: >>>When SETI or the study of UFOs shows an immediate potential for >>>a marketable technology, big business will mow down scientists >>>in the >>>frenzy to capitalize on this new found commodity. >>I recommend the SETI folks begin "breath holding lessons" in >>preparation for that fateful day. We can easily extrapolate from >>the treatment given ufology by mainstream science, debunkers, >>and the press to forsee what SETI will have to endure. >Doc Barry had also opined: >>>Can you picture the headlines? -- "SETI Announces Discovery of >>>ET Signal". The next day's headlines may read -- "Authenticity >>>of SETI Signal is Questioned". <snip> >Hi, Greg. >If SETI's one hoax equals a 100 year set back, then no wonder >UFOlogy is hard pressed to move forward. The hundreds of hoaxes >it has endured over the years obviously adds up to a stunning >10,000 year set back for ufology, using the formula you just >provided. >Just joking (as I'm sure your were?). I am also joking, of course. I think that the recent SETI hoax from Britain set back the SETI effort back by approx. three years and nine months. (subjective estimate.) Four years at the most, and probably less. Big deal. One or two Adamskii's can harm UFO studies more than that. The Redwood City library is still full of spiritualistic Ruth Montgomery effluvia .. pretty neglected nowadays, in spite of the nice hard covers.. but apparently once pawed over! >My previous post offered several counterpoints to, what I felt, >was sincere but faulty logic on the part of you and Doc. I feel, >as you do, that ufology is getting a raw deal as it relates to a >lack of resources and respect within the scientific community. Here I must butt in. I still maintain that SETI is worthwhile. I was rather naive in suggesting a detente of sorts, I had little idea of the bad blood left from the pronouncements of prominent SETI people W/R to ufology. They have indeed stepped on some corns, and I have no intention of opening old foot-wounds. I am equally sorry that such partially related studies must hate one another so. Once again, this only works to the benefit of mutual nay-sayers; rather provincial types who believe that mankind [ as physically and socially expressed on Earth, especially where olive trees grow ] is the culmination of all creation. If SETI "sucks", ignorance pulls the greater vacuum. I hope SETI succeeds. I hope UFO studies succeed. We all come at this mystery from different angles, I sure hope that somebody succeeds. With the very best, and most sincere good wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:43:19 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:27:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:18:15 -0500 >>Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:21:18 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>>From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> >>>Barney Hill, husband to Betty Hill, their story was distilled >>>into a book and movie, called Interupted Journey, Barney was a >>>blackman. >>OK, so that's one very easy answer, we're impressed. But as the >>population of the USA is - what? - 20 percent of Afro-American >>lineage there must be hundreds more, so can we have a lot more >>names please. Of course, if you can't come up with many more it >>might suggest that the abduction experience has a - gulp! - >>strong *psychosocial* element. Or is it just that the Greys >>aren't equal opportunity abductors? > >>-- John Rimmer Magonia On-Line, >Or, sigh, that African-Americans don't report abductions -- a >point that's already been made in a couple of posts. For some reason or other my posting was delayed by a week or so before appearing on this list. [Operator error setting filters - apologies --ebk] In the meantime a number of other people wrote pointing out that there _were_ other black abductees and also offering suggestions as to why black people may be more reluctant to report abduction experiences to predominantly white UFO organisations. I accept these arguements - they are after all sociological! - but I was rather surprised that amongst the alleged thousands of abductees there have been over the past twenty years the only name anyone could come up with was Barney Hill. >In New York, very few African-Americans go to professional >sports events, even though there's no doubt they're fans. When I >wrote a piece some years ago about African-Americans in >classical music, I was told that very few African-Americans who >love classical music ever go to classical concerts. They don't >feel welcome in prestigious concert halls. I'm not doubting this. In Britain although about 20% of players in Premiership football (soccer) are black, the proportion of black spectators is very low. However there are *some* black football fans, just as there are _some_ black music lovers at classical concerts, so why can nobody come up with *any* black abductees other than Mr Hill? >In any case, the psychosocial presumption conceals another one, >which we shouldn't feel we're in any position to make -- that, >assuming abductions were real, as many blacks would get abducted >as whites. How can we assume such a thing? How can we assume >that aliens, about whom we know nothing, would abduct all types >of humans equally? Well, yes, maybe the aliens are only abducting white people. Shouldn't the abductionists now be looking at this issue and trying to discover the reason - it would seem a pretty vital factor in abduction research. At least the psychosocial brigade have got a suggestion to make - that abductions are a culturally related phenomenon which is more a part of Anglo-Saxon and Eurocentric culture than it is Afro-American. And despite the sneers elsewhere on this list (Jerry, I mean you) I still refuse to believe that there is *no* connection whatsoever between the current abduction panic in the USA and concern over "alien" immigration. The film "Alien Nation" a couple of years ago hinted at some of the underlying fears. And the general principle "they're coming here to breed with our women": where have I heard that before? >Here's a more productive approach to the initial question, >about who allegedly gets abducted. When abductees report seeing >other abductees on the alien UFOs -- sometimes in huge numbers >-- what proportion of blacks do they see? And does this answer >vary, depending on the race of the abductee reporting it? Good point, someone should do some work on this, but I think it would be necessary to distinguish between abductees who reported this voluntarily and those who responded only after prompting, who might be double- guessing what the investigator wants to hear -- John Rimmer Editor of the "always worth reading" (thanks, Jerry) Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:02:33 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:29:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 98 11:20:40 PST >First of all the population of the United States is not 20% >African-American; it's about half that. I though that it was significantly more than 10% but I don't have the figures at my fingertips so take your word for it > Second, there are black >abductees, as Budd Hopkins and others have been telling us >forever. (Years ago Budd even had a letter published in the NY >Times Book Review on nonwhite abductees he'd worked with, after >a reviewer of Missing Time expressed the mistaken view that all >of Hopkins's abductees were white.) Third, no one has kept >statistics. Fourth, investigators writing about specific >abductees may not even be mentioning their racial backgrounds >(as, for example, Hopkins does not), just as mainstream media >accounts in this country (I don't know about Britain) do not >mention somebody's racial background unless it is crucial to the >story, for fear of being accused of bringing in irrelevant >detail which some could construe as ultimately racist in >motivation. If Hopkins was having to refute claims that the abduction experience was an exclusively white phenomenon ten years ago surely the race of abductees _is_ relevant and researchers should record this, after all we expect a lot of other information about the people concerned > Fifth, as for the "psychosocial" element, other >list contributors have pointed to all sorts of cultural reasons >why black abductees might be hesitant to report experiences to >overwhelmingly white ufologists (just as black crime victims >tend to under-report their experiences to largely white police >forces). I assume, alas, that this is not the sort of >"psychosocial" aspect to which our friend is here alluding. I >fear that he's going for something far more dramatic. Of course it's psychosocial. It's also pretty psychosocial as to just why the overwhelming majority of ufologists are white. If abductions _were_ happening as frequently amongst the black community as they are amongst the white I'd expect rather _more_ black ufologists who would be more accessible to black experiencers. >Whatever is behind abduction reports (and I'm open to reasonable >arguments, of which John seems not to be advancing one here), it >appears to affect people pretty much across the spectrum. I do >recall, however, an amusing piece by Peter Rogerson in Magonia >(the always interesting magazine John edits), wherein it was >argued -- to all appearances without tongue in cheek -- that >Americans imagine they are being abducted because they deeply >fear Hispanic immigrants. Ah, yes, the insights we get from >psychosocial ufology; what would we do without them? As for Peter's comments I refer you to my response to Greg Sandow. Let me ask you this Jerry: do you think that the evidence suggests that _all_ abduction reports are the result of the physical abduction of human by beings from another planet as Hopkins et. al claim? This is certainly not the impression that comes acroos from reading your encyclopaedia. If you don't take the reports at face value surely there must be _some_ sociological and psychological element in them. I'd be interested to know just how much you think social and psychological factors are involved in the abduction experience. -- John Rimmer, Editor Magonia magazine (you heard Jerry, it's always interesting) www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Ramey Message Scan On Web From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:46:08 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:33:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Ramey Message Scan On Web >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Ramey Message Scan On Web >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:39:58 -0500 >Neil, >Thanks so much for making this available. With a 56k modem, a >2.5 meg download doesn't take very long. >I notice that the file is in GIF format, which isn't ideal. It >compresses the picture, reducing the color palette to (at most) >256 shades of gray. Is there any chance you can get a version of >the scan in TIFF or BMP format, uncompressed? The download would >take a while longer, but the extra time would be worthwhile, for >possible added detail. >Greg Sandow Greg, Thanks for your interest. My first scans were made in 32bit RGB format and stored as .TIF files but remember these are B&W images and when I came to check the 'numbers' inside the .TIFs (I wanted to check if it was going to be easy to convert them into raw data for some number crunching - noise reduction, a job not yet done) I discovered that the RGB triplets were all the same counts, ie I had scanned at 32bit RGB but the nature of the beast was sticking to 8 bit format anyways!, hence my final choice of 8bit grayscale which can be handled in GIF format plus GIF employs lossless RLE compression making the images manageable and base compatable for any web browser. Can I also add that, even scanning some areas of the images in 8bit grayscale, the scanner sometimes comes up with less than the 255 levels available. Neil. ------------------------------------------------------- Neil Morris@Home. Email: Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk -------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 07:44:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:36:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:56:26 -0500 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:34:42 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: The 'Roswell Memo' Images >>Hi List and all - >>Russ Estes has conducted a number of tests on the memo, letter, >>TWX, telex seen in General Ramey's hand. Estes used a >>professional video camera that cost about $50,000 originally, a >>$7000 macro lens, and about $50,000 worth of computer equipment. >>He used Adobe Photoshop 4.0 as software. He also had it flat >>scanned at 9000 dpi which created a file of about 1.5 gigabits. >>In other words, he used the best equipment available for the >>imagining. >>He also used a microscope to examine the memo. He, and others >>used magnifying glasses, jewelers' loops, and their bare eyes. >>They used every and all techniques to look at the memo General >>Ramey held (and yes, they noticed that he had a ragged thumb >>nail that could mean he bites his nails or that he had broken >>it). >>According to Estes, the words lengths were visible but the >>individual letters were open to interpretation. He said that it >>looked to him as if it was memo was in all caps. He said the >>only word that he could be positive about was "THE". He also >>believed that he could see the letters ELA but couldn't tell if >>the first images in that string was quotation marks or other >>letters that couldn't be read. He also said that he saw the word >>"Confidential" stamped at the top of the memo and that there was >>a smear near Ramey's thumb that could be seen as an old style >>telephone. >>Estes used the best equipment and software available to examine >>the memo seen on the 16 x 20 print and said that he could not >>see much that was not open to interpretation on the memo. It >>was, to him, "faces in the clouds". In other words, the >>interpretation put on the memo was based on what the viewer >>wanted to see. >>That has been borne out here, as others who have examined the >>print have provided us with some other interpretations. Estes >>said that he was disappointed that the images couldn't be >>resolved to the point where the words were readable rather than >>interpreted by those doing the examination. >>Estes' examination simply confirmed the statements made by Dr. >>Richard Haines who undertook an examination of the memo about >>five years ago. Dr. Haines said that he couldn't read much other >>than a few scattered letters. >>It will be interesting to see what others see when they complete >>their examinations of the memo. We all must be careful that we >>don't see what we want to see in the memo. >Golly, Kevin, this is almost, word for word, what XIXth century >scientists thought about Koch's theories on bacteria. History >has it that Pasteur came up later with a popular (mainstream) >theory on the existence of micro-organisms, and is now, >surprisingly enough, widely accepted. >The "petite histoire" tells that Pasteur screwed Koch in the >process. I know the later remark has nothing to do with this >post, but I've been waiting 20 years to make an English joke on >this historical fact, joke you can't make in French. >Sorry, eh?, >Serge The real problem is not so much the equipment, but that neither Haines nor Estes were working from a negative and neither was working from a large enlargement of the Ramey memo area. As I have noted the 8x10 print of the memo area is equivalent to working from a 55x70 print. In addition the scan of my 20 year old 8x10 clearly shows much less damage to the negative than do the recent prints. That is the whole point of my offering a CDROM with scans of the old print, of the much enlarged memo, of an 11x14 print, and 3 scans of the negative.. as well as other goodies. Happy hunting... Nobody said it would be easy. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 08:53:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:40:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:24:28 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Christophe Meessen <meessen@cppm.in2p3.fr> >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Hello, >>Sorry, but Terry Dickinson and I both looked at Joachim's work >>years ago and found it not to have merit for a bunch of reasons. >>The portrayal above of the conversation with the alien is >>fictional. >It was based on the reading of Joachim's document. I have no >access to Fuller's book here. >You made a point, I should check it before spreading this >information any further. >But your argument saying you and other guys checked it and >concluded the theory had to be rejected does not impress me by >itself. I would like to hear some more substantial arguments >explainign _why_ you concluded that the theory proposed by >Joachim does not hold. Like planets position not matching the >map, etc. >I also want to make clear that the point in question is : does >the map represent our solar system at a given date in 1961 ? We >are not considering the question where the map comes from, etc. >This question should be easy to answer, no ? >>Try looking at the ZRI booklet or better yet 'The Interrupted >>Journey' by John Fuller. Marge Fish's work had also been >>carefully considered and passes muster. >Could you give me the URL to this information ? >I'm also interested in the fuller's book An Interupted Journey. >Is this book still available ? >Maybe we can keep this discussion of the list if you prefer. >Bien cordialement, >Ch.Meessen There is a new edition of two books-in-one by John G. Fuller - 'Incident at Exeter' and the 'Interrupted Journey'. Both are worth reading. I doubt very much if the Zeta Reticuli stuff is on the web. Beautiful color. I have the world supply of the 32page full color reprint from Astronomy Magazine.. including Dickinson's original article and about 9 more letters including 2 from Carl Sagan.. Really neat. I don't like to simplify our analysis of Koch's work. Frankly there were so many baseless assumptions and distortions that after a while we gave up. The Update I mentioned deals with a number of objections. It is interesting that everybody who attacked Marge's work misrepresented what she did. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 08:45:14 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:52:06 -0500 Subject: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:27:01 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >>From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:30:43 EST >>Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:00:07 -0500 >>Subject: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >>Bravo. Don't forget, one hoax has already set SETI back 100 >>years. <snip> >Hi, Greg. >If SETI's one hoax equals a 100 year set back, then no wonder >UFOlogy is hard pressed to move forward. The hundreds of hoaxes >it has endured over the years obviously adds up to a stunning >10,000 year set back for ufology, using the formula you just >provided. >Just joking (as I'm sure your were?). Don't be TOO sure Roger! :-) I'm afraid I may have you at a disadvantage here. I was paraphrasing the lamenting by one of SETI's spokesmen over the recent hoax. Perhaps you weren't aware of the statement made to the effect that if it was a hoax, it would set SETI back a hundred years. In a recent discussion, I pointed out what shaky ground SETI must be on if a single hoax could have such a devastating effect. I'm sure his concern was over future funding and not public opinion, however. >My previous post offered several counterpoints to, what I felt, >was sincere but faulty logic on the part of you and Doc. I feel, >as you do, that ufology is getting a raw deal as it relates to a >lack of resources and respect within the scientific community. >But slamming SETI, whining about funding and making it out to be >the "competition" is counter productive. I find it interesting >that the above post reflects more butt-slappin' and high-five'n >than any real counterpoint to my views, either philosophical or >scientific. >Greg, you and Doc are intelligent people with obvious passion >for your beliefs. You two can do better than that! Show me why >you feel SETI is such a threat to ufology beyond a simple >just-because type reasoning. Uh, Roger, where have I indicated that SETI is a threat to ufology? I have expressed the opinion several times that ufology is in far better shape, and has accomplished better results with far fewer resources. Yes, I feel SETI is a waste of money, but you somehow equate that with "whining about funding". Anyway, my thinking was recently corrected by a SETI member as to funding sources. SETI is at this time self-funded, much like ufology, though it's a lot tougher to sell SETI books <snicker>. By the way, I have never slapped, nor have I had the desire to slap, Doc's butt. No offense Doc!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:14:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:47:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:54:44 -0500 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:10:15 -0400 >>>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:51:35 EST >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>>>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:49:47 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >>>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>>>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >>>>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>>>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:02:49 +0100 >>>>>Subject: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>>Unfortunately Gliese 86 was not on the Hill map. Betty Hill >>>made two drawings, one of which had the stellar assignations >>>and the other did not. Neither shows Gliese 86. This is from >>>Fuller's book, "Incident at Exeter" Subtitled "The Interrupted >>>Journey." >><snip> >>Sorry Jim, there is nothing about Marge Fish's work in 'The >>Interrupted Journey'. >>Betty tried to link what she drew to a NY Times article. Bad >>idea. >>You need to go to my early SAGA article, hard to get, or to the >>Terence Dickinson article. Gliese 86 is definitely part of the >>map. >For your benefit gentlepeople, >From Terence Dickinson's "The Zeta Reticuli Incident", here is >the list of all the alledged stars in Betty Hill's map (from the >work of Marjorie Fish): >Zeta 2 Reticuli >Zeta 1 Reticuli >Alpha Mensae >Sun >82 Eridani >Tau Ceti >107 Piscium >54 Piscium >Gliese 67 >Gliese 86 >Tau 1 Eridani >Gliese 59 >Serge Salvaille My copy of 'The Zeta Reticuli Incident' on page 19 lists the above pattern stars, but also lists Zeta Tucanae, Gliese 59, Gliese 86.1, Gliese 95, Kappa Fornax. Page 9 lists the 46 nearest stars similar to the sun. The best ever star distance data obtained by the Hipparchos (sp.?) satellite was published within the past year and undoubtedly slightly changes some of the distances in the tables which are derived from the l969 Gliese Catalog of nearby stars. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: "Bill" <koran@cchat.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 08:51:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:55:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:18:15 -0500 >>Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:21:18 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>>From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> >>>Barney Hill, husband to Betty Hill, their story was distilled >>>into a book and movie, called Interupted Journey, Barney was a >>>blackman. >>OK, so that's one very easy answer, we're impressed. But as the >>population of the USA is - what? - 20 percent of Afro-American >>lineage there must be hundreds more, so can we have a lot more >>names please. Of course, if you can't come up with many more it >>might suggest that the abduction experience has a - gulp! - >>strong *psychosocial* element. Or is it just that the Greys >>aren't equal opportunity abductors? > >>-- John Rimmer Magonia On-Line, >Or, sigh, that African-Americans don't report abductions -- a >point that's already been made in a couple of posts. I remember the subject from a number of other threads over the last few years. I even remember the resulting equation. This is where, if A is true (an assumption with no evidence), and A equals B (where B has no apparent relationship to A), then C (a complete unknown) equals A (a mutually exclusive, completely unsubstantiated, psychosocial cause of abduction)...right? >In New York, very few African-Americans go to professional >sports events, even though there's no doubt they're fans. When I >wrote a piece some years ago about African-Americans in >classical music, I was told that very few African-Americans who >love classical music ever go to classical concerts. They don't >feel welcome in prestigious concert halls. The same is true for any power(less) segment of society. How many obviously battered women failed to report domestic abuse for fear of retribution until there was a concerted effort to get them to report...and how many instances continue to go unreported? Who knows? Lots? >In any case, the psychosocial presumption conceals another one, >which we shouldn't feel we're in any position to make -- that, >assuming abductions were real, as many blacks would get abducted >as whites. How can we assume such a thing? How can we assume >that aliens, about whom we know nothing, would abduct all types >of humans equally? >Here's a more productive approach to the initial question, >about who allegedly gets abducted. When abductees report seeing >other abductees on the alien UFOs -- sometimes in huge numbers >-- what proportion of blacks do they see? And does this answer >vary, depending on the race of the abductee reporting it? This is a very interesting and useful suggestion, and a good a place to start for anyone who is seriously arguing for a psychosocial cause, (or even anyone interested in knowing the truth of the abduction phenom), to begin with. I'm looking forward to your usual, intellectually honest job of carrying on _both_ sides of this seemingly endless debate...again. Sincerely, Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:23:39 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:04:31 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:03:38 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Steven W. Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >If one doesn't agree with the newspaper they get, >they switch newspapers to one that they agree with. This is >true for Internet lists as well. I beg to diagree ; ) Newspapers and the Internet are NOT the same. The latter is (or was meant to be) a medium that allows equal opportunity to express one's opinions "uncensored". You either believe what it says or you disagree. Newspapers, and I mean the established mainstream variety, are totally censored and IMHO are flagrant violators as far as reporting "truth" is concerned. They all follow "the official line" (in case you haven't noticed?) Newspapers edit their content and are slanted to reflect a particular point of view. Editorial control on a mailing list is usually restricted to permitting, or not permitting a particular message to be posted. It does not usually edit its content, and should not (except perhaps for typographical errors, formatting, etc). I would hope if content is edited it be done with the permission of the author. In the case of CAUS postings being deferred from UASR's list, this is a matter of "discretionary" censorship in that SPECIFIC ideas and opinions from a particular faction of the "neighborhood" (i.e., UFO community at large and those known personalities and organizations who regularly post to certain Internet ufo-related e-mail lists). Although UASR's actions, and those who followed suit, represents a biased attitude towards certain views, it is not to be perceived as "outright" censorship of material contained within a document, but rather a broader censorship of opinion deemed to be contrary to the list owner's point of view but not necessarily all its subscribers. This doesn't mean the censored viewpoints are incorrect. Unfortunately, this type of "premature" censorship sometimes can backfire if the viewpoint that was "ostracized" turns out to be correct. But in the final analysis, just because you disagree doesn't mean you're right! Ignatius ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News: UFOSEEK... For the Source! www.ufoseek.org "Pictures of SETI Signals from unknown engineer in the UK" Contact1450 - Mirror Site: UPDATED (since Nov.3)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 98 12:18:36 PST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:14:33 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:32:48 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: SETI Scientists Petition White House >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 98 16:43:23 PST >>Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:54:17 -0500 >>Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >>>Previously Larry Hatch offered: >>>>>For the life of me, I cannot understand some of the anti-SETI >>>>>messages recently. >>>Serge's rather rude response was: >>>>Then I suggest you read the posts more carefully and try to >>>>understand the situation. >>>>Any 30 years $100-million flopped project supported by >>>>mainstream science on the hypothesis of extra-terrestrial life >>>>must be questioned by people involved in a 50 years $0.00 >>>>research who came up with evidence - people who are still >>>>laughed at by the same SOBs who support the fore-mentioned >>>>project. >My response was: >>>Time out, Serge. >>>You make a pretty strong accusation. Please give us names of any >>>SETI supporters that laugh at terrestrial based UFO research. My >>>money is on the bet that you can't. In fact, I'd go so far as to >>>say that everyone I know that supports SETI also supports the >>>investigation of UFO sightings and encounters. True, SETI has >>>received the lion's share of the funding, but $100 million is >>>squat for 30 years work. No one, including SETI members, is >>>saying that terrestrial based UFO research doesn't deserve >>>funding, also. The fact that UFO researchers don't get it is not >>>SETI's fault. Your grudge is with the wrong people. Grow up. >Jerry responded: >>Wow. I am at a loss to understand any of the above paragraph. >>I've read a reasonable amount of the SETI literature, and >>overwhelmingly, the attitude toward UFOs and UFO research is (a) >>ignorant and (b) hostile. A rare exception is the British >>popular science writer Edward Ashpole, who has done books on >>SETI and one (sympathetic to the ETH) on the UFO phenomenon. >>There is, in fairness, astronomer/SETI historian Steven Dick, >>who while more or less skeptical is not notably hostile toward >>ufology, and he does know the subject. Far more typical, >>however, is Jill Tartar's boast of close- mindedness where UFO >>reports are concerned, or Carl Sagan's many and tiresome >>fulminations. >First, I doubt very seriously if you had any trouble >understanding what I said in the above paragraph. But, I'll >admit, it is much easier if you read it in context with Serge's >_very_ rude comments. When I speak of "SETI supporters", I don't >mean high profile individuals or organizations with their own >agendas. I'm talking about average folk. Both SETI and Ufology >have their share of nut-niks that like to stir up trouble. But >they are hardly the majority in either group, and I think you >know that. If you don't mean "high profile individuals or organizations with their own agendas", you should have made that clear. It is the high profile individuals or organizations with their own agendas that get the attention, publication, and funding; if there is, at the ground level of SETI support, a feeling that UFO research is both worthwhile and neglected, it (a) seems not to have found its voice and (b) doesn't matter, since the Tartars, Drakes, and Sagans have traditionally dominated the field and defined it. >Why do I think you know that? >While you included Serge's comments that supported your point of >view, you left out Serge's petty desire that SETI fail to make >contact with exterrestrial life. It's a pretty lame-ass wish, >don't you think, for someone supposedly concerned with making >contact as soon as possible. Are you afraid that people reading >this will think him typical of all Ufologists? Think about it. SETI's failure to make contact with ETs is raised continually by its critics, even as its partisans periodically made grand pronouncements about its imminent success. If memory serves, it was Frank Drake who was saying just a few years ago that contact would occur before the turn of the century. Who among us is holding his or her breath waiting for that prophecy to be fulfilled? >>SETI has many critics within mainstream science, though >>you'd not know that from the breathlessly uncritical accounts >>you'll find in popular media treatments of the subject. >Let me get this straight. When someone, such as Ed Stewart, is >critical of you and your research, you often point out the >complementary writings and reviews of your books; your defense >is dependent on taking said articles at face value. On the other >hand, articles that don't reflect your view of SETI or its >critics are considered suspect and should not be taken at face >value? Why? I don't follow the reasoning here. Maybe I didn't make myself clear. So let me try again: Within science, SETI is treated with more skepticism than it is in mainstream media. I don't think anybody -- SETIphile or -phobe -- will dispute that, at least if he or she has been following the controversy in astronomical and other journals. I was not expressing an opinion on whether SETI is worthwhile or not (I do have an opinion, but that's neither here nor there where the present discussion is concerned). By pointing out SETI's tenuous position within mainstream science, I was trying to point to one reason for the insecurity of its advocates -- the sort of insecurity that would cause them to seek respectability by trashing ufology. >If said articles don't criticize SETI or point out SETI critics, >then why are they popular and abundant in mainstream media? >Could it be because the majority of average readers and UFO >enthusiasts support both the SETI efforts and the efforts of >UFology? And as you pointed out above, there are some higher >profile people such as Ashpole and Dick that don't dog SETI and >exhibit a more justifiable "wait and see" attitude. Why focus on >fringe idiots and zealots of SETI. These people are no more >typical of SETI supporters than Ed Stewart or Robert Todd are as >representatives for Ufology (or Serge, I hope). Jill Tartar, Frank Drake, Carl Sagan, Karl S. Guthke, Philip Morrison, et al., are hardly "fringe idiots and zealots of SETI." They would, in fact, characterize SETI supporters who think UFO reports possibly related to ETI as "fringe idiots and zealots." I mention the pro-UFO Ashpole and the open-mindedly skeptical Dick as two rare exceptions in the discussion. They are hardly typical. >It's obvious to me the only dissing going on is some bitter >members of ufology trying to blame SETI for the lack of funding >and respect ufology rightly deserves within the scientific >community. As I pointed out in another post, SETI could >dissappear tomorrow and ufology will still have all the problems >it has always endured. Obvious to you, perhaps, but not to me. I don't know anybody who holds the simplistic view that SETI is responsible "for the lacking of funding and respect ufology rightly deserves within the scientific community." Ufologists do rightly complain, however, that the money spent on SETI, or even a fraction of it, could usefully be applied to UFO investigation. Another reason, of course, that SETIans should trash ufology: they're trying to preserve their share of the funding pie. Understandable, of course, albeit regrettable. In my opinion, it is entirely reasonable for us, whether ufologists or UFOphobic SETIans, to debate the crucial question of what resources and money should be applied to the search for ETI, and where those would be most productively employed. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 WingMakers Update - HOAX -11.29.98 From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:32:17 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:09:57 -0500 Subject: WingMakers Update - HOAX -11.29.98 She sure is a pretty site, though! I like the first two musical selections: "Warm Presence" and "WingMakers" -ufoseek ---------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.wingmakers.com WingMakers Update - HOAX -11.29.98 (ewolfe@involved.com): A few minutes ago, it finally occured to me to check Usenet for any mention of wingmakers or Mark Hempel, the site owner. I found a lot more than I expected. In one post to an artist's group, he says the site took him three years to create, he made everything on it that you see, and that it is an idea for a movie or tv series. He calls it an IMAF. Immersive Multimedia Art Forms. He posted that to alt.art.video on the 24th of this month. On the 20th of this month, he sent a message to several other groups, (spammed them really,) saying that he had just found a website that spoke of an alien race called Wingmakers and asked if anyone else had ever heard of them. He went on to claim that there was a lot of info on the site, including music, but he couldn't get the music to work for him. If nothing else, that alone proves his dishonesty. He owns the site, and acts as though he stumbled across it. Anyway, thought I'd let you know what I found out. The guy did a brilliant job, but it disappoints me that people will go to such lengths to fool other people. When some truth of some matter finally does come along, we'll all be too skeptical to even believe it after having been fooled so many times before. ______________________________________________ From: "Mark Hempel" <mhempel@southbaygroup.com> Subject: Wingmakers web site Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:30:10 -0600 Hi. Thanks for your interest in the wingmakers web site. If you're listed on this email, you've either been contacted by me to help de-bunk the wingmakers site, or you've contacted me in reference to the site. If you believe the site is a hoax, you don't need to read the rest of this rather lengthy email. If you're not sure or think it's real, please read further because I've found what I believe is evidence that this site is not what it claims to be. As most of you know, I was asked to be the host of this web site through a somewhat odd arrangement many months ago (it's recorded at the www.internic.com site). I was supposed to secure a URL and place my name on the copyright box for the Real Audio player on the site in exchange for a fee. I was given a completed (except for the encoding of the Real Audio files) web site that was uploaded to my host (9netave) around the 18th of November. Due to some unusual circumstances that included some hacker email threats (which were successfully traced to a library in Baltimore), I got a little paranoid and decided to get some people together who were familiar with the new age/paranormal/UFO community (something that is not my specialty). I initially tried newsgroups trying to stir up feedback, but because I sort of "spammed" the UFO newsgroups, I don't think people took my efforts seriously. So I began my own research into this community via the web. In doing so, I came across numerous web sites that had email addresses of people who were expert and/or experienced in this field. Since about a week ago, I sent out about 30 emails to a wide variety of people. My efforts were to seek your advice and help in assessing the wingmaker site. Over the course of employing your help, I've come to the following conclusion based in part on your feedback and my own research. Not all of you will probably agree, but I believe the site is indeed an elaborate hoax. Or perhaps it's what the person who hired me claimed it was, an experimental art site. What follows are the reasons I've come to this conclusion: 1) The music is too contemporary sounding. It just doesn't sound like something that would be produced 750 years in the future. I really like the music, but I've had musicians listen to it and they don't hear many sounds that seem futuristic. Every sound that they heard could be replicated today on a synthesizer or digital sampler. 2) According to a scientist who read the entire text of the site, somewhere in the interview transcripts section there's a reference to the Pleaides, which is claimed to be the seed race of the WingMakers and humankind. This scientist says the Pleaides is a relatively young nebula, and therefore this is not possible. 3) I had an ex-intelligence officer from the NSA review the site, and he read the ACIO memos and said they're completely out of protocol standards and he doesn't believe any agency or department of the NSA would violate these protocols. 4) The glyphs have been further researched and the connection to Sumerian culture seems to be a stretch. There are some similarities, but for the most part, these glyphs are not recognizable to an anthropologist that looked at the site. There are more Native American references than Sumerian. 5) I had a person who had read a book by Dr. Courtney Brown called Cosmic Voyage, and he quoted passages from the book that seemed very similar to the writings in the transcripts where they talk about the Martians, Greys, and remote viewing in general. It's either an amazing corroboration or someone lifted the ideas from the book. (I sent an email to Dr. Brown asking him to look at the site. I haven't heard back from him yet as to his review of the site). 6) I had a linguist analyze the speech of "Dr. Anderson" and she didn't believe a man with such a supposedly high IQ would talk like he does, particularly if he worked 80 hours per week with others like himself. She felt his language skills represented someone with above average intelligence, but certainly not a genius. (I had others give me the same response). 7) One University philosophy professor explained that while the philosophy and glossary sections were well written and did show insight, they're so similar to new age teachings that they are most likely just regurgitated from among "channeled" teachings that are fairly common in this community. 8) The technology artifacts that are represented are principally crystalline structures that are impossible to authenticate. I had one person who was expert with crystals and he said that the crystals do not appear to be anything exceptional or extraordinary. 9) If you look very carefully at the paintings, usually in the bottom corners, it appears that there's a signature. It looks the same on all of the paintings where it's visible. It's impossible to make out what it says, but it looks distinctively different than the glyphs. Therefore, I'm calling this a hoax or experimental art site. Afterall, to be fair with my client, she never claimed it was anything but an experimental art site from an art collective in Norway. It was just the lack of communication from her that got my suspicions up, and caused me to take the time to read the text of the site-which to me was very odd. I still haven't heard from her (my client), but I'm asking your help to pronounce the site a hoax, or if you'd prefer, an experimental art site. It's taking too much time to respond to the emails I'm getting... and this letter is what I intend to send out as my standard response to any inquiry surrounding the site. The client has paid me through December, so the site will be up until at least then. My thanks to each of you for your kind help and assistance. With warm gratitude, Mark ---------------------------------------------------------------- Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News: UFOSEEK... For the Source! www.ufoseek.org "Pictures of SETI Signals from unknown engineer in the UK" Contact1450 - Mirror Site: UPDATED (since Nov.3)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:52:40 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:18:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:28:37 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>>These creatures (I refer to Grays) have short bodies, long and >>>very slim legs and arms, large eyes, etc. These are descriptions >>>about which we are all aware. I cannot for the life of me but >>>wonder why some theorizing has not been done on these >>>pohotos. >>>Hello? Anybody out there with some theories? >>>Jim Mortellaro >>Sure, Jim... >>I would suggest that their appearence, suggests a subterranean >>culture..... >>They have large eyes, which would work well in a low light >>environment. >>They have no hair, which would also suggest they need no >>protection from the elements. >>They have grey skin, again suggesting a life form raised in an >>environment which lacks pigmentation...a low light environment. >>Need I say more??? <G> >Howdy Michael... >Actually yes. >One of the planets astronomers recently discovered appears to be >a gas giant, perhaps a Saturn or Big Jup type planet. The >gravity on this type world would likely be very high. Would >these creatures, as we have seen them described, be able to live >on such a world? (hypothetically) I would suggest that these creatures, beings, would also be extreemely large if they evolved on a planet of that size. I think they could be possibly 25 -30 feet tall by our standards. They would be able to perform almost "magical" feats of strength and agility on our planet. As we have been told, the "small grey" beings which we are allegedly dealing with, would seem to have evolved in a planatary system of light gravity, with possibly little or no sunlight...possibly similar to what Venus appears to be. Note that they are very rarely seen walking around in direct sunlight. I have heard reports where they were seen in daylight, but again they are rare. Note also that the alleged abductees claim that the atmosphere and lighting conditions in the "craft" are cool. Flourescent type light emiting from somewhere in the craft...Not hot light as our light bulbs produce. I also am saying this hypothetically...I have no experience with these beings, so I am not an expert here, just opinionated. <g> >One would assume that on a world with more than two or three >G's, an entity might be stocky and heavily muscled. In fact, such creatures have been reported in South America, back in the late 50's to early 60's. The were very short, stocky, and very hairy. They were reported in some instances to actually "attack" humans with whom they came in contact. To quote from: 'Flying Saucer Occupants' 1967, by Coral and Jim Lorenzen, chapter six, page 103: The first incident to come to our attention was in a report forwared by Joseph Rolas of Caracas, Venezuela: "At about 2 A.M. on the morning of November 28, Gustavo Gonzales and his helper, Jose' Ponce, set out from Caracus for Petare, a suburb, to pick up some produce, to be put on sale in the markets of Caracas the next morning. Upon entering a street leading to the warehouse area, they saw a luminous spherical object hovering about six feet off the ground, and blocking their way. They stopped the truck and Gonzales got out to investigate. A dwarfish-looking man- shaped thing about three feet tall, hairy, and with glowing eyes came toward Gonzales, who attempted to grab him. The little fellow struck Gonzales and sent him reeling about 15 feet. The little man then leaped at Gonzales, clawed hands extended. Gonzales drew his knife and made a stab at the creature, striking it in the shoulder, but the knife glanced off as though it had struck steel. Another of the little fellows emerged from a hatch in the side of the sphere, directed the light from what appeared to be a metallic tube at Gonzales, blinding him. At this point the creature with whom Gonzales had scuffeled, leaped into the sphere and it took off swiftly and was lost to sight in seconds." In one other incident from this book, on Page 104: "On December 16, three young men were driving home from a dinner engagement in San Carlos, Venezuela. One of the men, Jesus Paz, asked the driver to stip by the road so the he could relieve himself. Shortly after he stepped off the side of the road, his friends heard him scream and, rush- ing to his aid, found Paz unconscious on the ground, and a short distance away a hairy-looking little man was running toward a flat, shiny object which hovered a few feet off the ground. The object rose from the ground with a deafening buzzing sound and disappeared into the sky. Paz was rushed to the hospital by his friends where he was treated for several long, deep scratches on his right side and along his spine. Authorities who interviewed the men said that all three were badly frightened and that Paz was in a state of shock." >Perhaps not. I do not know. I was hoping someone(s) has done >some thinking and/or research along these lines. Well, I am not a scientist, therefore, my input may not be as well received, but the "thinking" part, I hope to have demonstrated. <g> >However your opine is appreciated, thank you Sir. Thanks. I appreciate you saying so.... >It would be nice to know as much as possible, about my hosts. >Knowledge is power they say. Your "Hosts???" Would you care to elaborate on the meaning of this? Useful knowledge is power...otherwise, it is just taking up space. <G> >Jim REgards, Mike ICQ#:7508455.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 98 13:13:03 PST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:36:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:43:19 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:18:15 -0500 >>>Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:21:18 +0000 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>>>From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> >Well, yes, maybe the aliens are only abducting white people. >Shouldn't the abductionists now be looking at this issue and >trying to discover the reason - it would seem a pretty vital >factor in abduction research. At least the psychosocial brigade >have got a suggestion to make - that abductions are a culturally >related phenomenon which is more a part of Anglo-Saxon and >Eurocentric culture than it is Afro-American. And despite the >sneers elsewhere on this list (Jerry, I mean you) I still refuse >to believe that there is *no* connection whatsoever between the >current abduction panic in the USA and concern over "alien" >immigration. It is indeed touching, John, that you "refuse to believe there is _no_ connection whatsoever between the current abduction panic [sic] in the USA and concern over `alien' immigration." I suppose it's much easier to make sweeping statements about what Americans think when you don't live here, as you don't. I'd sure like to know, for example, where you get the idea that there is a "panic" about abductions in my country. As a lifelong citizen, I can testify that the subject virtually never comes up in my daily interactions with other Americans, even those who know of my interest in UFOs. Some panic. It's this sort of loose and careless use of language that years ago drove me from advocacy of psychosocial hypotheses. In any event, unless you can produce clear and specific evidence (or even, for that matter, merely intriguing and suggestive evidence) that Americans everywhere deeply fear Hispanic immigration and therefore suffer vivid fantasies about abduction by decidedly non-Hispanic extraterrestrials, it simply does not matter what you believe or refuse to believe. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:48:47 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:54:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>OK, so that's one very easy answer, we're impressed. But as the >>population of the USA is - what? - 20 percent of Afro-American >>lineage there must be hundreds more, so can we have a lot more >>names please. Of course, if you can't come up with many more it >>might suggest that the abduction experience has a - gulp! - >>strong *psychosocial* element. Or is it just that the Greys >>aren't equal opportunity abductors? > >>-- John Rimmer Magonia On-Line, >>a division of the P.L.A. Driftwood Cartel >>www.magonia.demon.co.uk >Hello John, >You ought to take the time to go to the archive and read the >whole thread before posting! See responses from Greg Sandow, >myself, and others to this thread _then_ get back to us. <G> >Peace, >John Velez, Puerto Rican abductee ;-) As I explined in my in response to Greg Sandow, the above posting was delayed (I don't know how - if it's my fault please accept my apologies) by over a week between me sending it and it appearing here on the list, so I'm aware that some of the points raised have aready been addressed by other contributors. I make a few further points in reply to Jerry Clark's reaction to the above. Yes, I have followed the thread.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:20:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:59:43 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:27:00 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia >Dear List readers: >Perhaps unfairly, I wish to take a snippet out of the good >message below, simply to make a small point. >>From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> >>To: UFO UpDates" <updates@globalserve.net>, >>Subject: UFO Sighting over Brisbane. >>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:05:01 +1000 >>The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia >>tkbnetw@fan.net.au >>************************************************************* >>Australian UFO Research Network Hot Line Number >> 1800 77 22 88 Free Call >>************************************************************* >>Sighting Report:UFOICQ (U/I) CE1 >>Strathpine, Brisbane Queensland 18th 11.1998 Time 3.35am >>Tony Tinnis >>Stated he is a Christian and does not believe in UFOs, but I was >>travelling down the Bruce HWY to the Strathpine exit going to >>work when I saw an object, Colour, gun metal gray and.. >Did you catch that? >Tony Tinnis "Is a Christian and doesn't believe in UFOs.." >As a child, I heard statements like that, they usually ran >something like : >" Well, I'm a Christian and I don't hold up gas stations." >- or - >"I'm a Christian and I don't need a Ouija board to know that >Christ is coming back." >Do you catch my drift? A good Christian does not see or believe >in UFOs. That is exactly the mindset I objected to on some >earlier post. >If 'Christians' can make such dumb statements, no doubt the >members of other well-known religions can as well. the opposite >may also happen at times! >Once in a while, and perhaps by chance, a religionist or >religious leader will make a sensible statement. Whenever that >happens, I believe that they should be applauded, at least a >little bit. >With the very best wishes > >- Larry Hatch Hi Larry. My question has always been: What has being a Christian go to do with believing or not believing in UFOs? What is the "closed mindset" got to do with any religion? What so many Fundamentalists of all religions forget, is that these religions were created simply for the people of earth. It has nothing to do with Other Possible worlds... I know that they believe that only GOD and his Angels exist above this earth, and Satan and his Demons below. Yet, this is because the "Church" of the Middle ages instilled this thinking in the Fundamentalist Dogma. It has been passed down from generation to generation, under the "implied" threat that you would be punished if you did not adhere strictly to the "letter of the law." Yet in the middle ages, not only was it a threat, it was as most of us know a reality...the Inquisition, made sure that the people walked the chalk line or suffer the tortures of the Righeous Indignation of the Church... I don't have to mention by name those early Astronomers who were excommunicated from the church until the withdrew their scientific statments, which claimed that the sun was the center of the Universe, which was contrary to the Church belief that the Earth was the Center of the Universe, and all things revolved around it. <G> Today we realize the Sun is the center of it's Solar system...Sun and Planets. How many have suffered at the hands of these Ignorant Sheppards of Humanity because they dared to "explore and expand" the bounds of human knowledge??? So it is to day with all religions and UFOs and the idea the there are other life forms capable of sentient thought existing elsewhere in the universe.... We are still the slaves of the 'Earth Is The Center Of The Universe', theology. REgards, Mike ICQ#:7508455. (502) 683-6811
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:22:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:37:08 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:14:42 +0000 >Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:09:07 -0500 >Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:37:02 -0500 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:30:54 -0500 >>Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >Previously Larry Hatch offered: >>>For the life of me, I cannot understand some of the anti-SETI >>>messages recently. >Serge's rather rude response was: > >>Then I suggest you read the posts more carefully and try to >>understand the situation. > Hold your horses Roger, and don't make this a personal debate. SETI Institute's Internet site is at: http://www.seti-inst.edu/ I urge you to go to the FAQ, get to "V. Related Information" and try: http://www.seti-inst.edu/faq.html#anchor240777 to reach: "Do you have any pictures of UFO's or aliens?" Feel free to thrash around. Read on: "Do you have any pictures of UFO's or aliens? No. At this time, there is no compelling scientific evidence to support the idea that extraterrestrials are here or on their way. The reasons for this are detailed in our document entitled "Why the SETI Institute does no UFO Research". Great! Let's click on: "Why the SETI Institute does no UFO Research" and reach: http://www.seti-inst.edu/ufo.html to feed on the following manure: "In addition to the unlikelihood that we have been visited by extraterrestrials, there is no scientific evidence to prove it" We even get direct links to: CSICOP and The Society for Scientific Exploration, But not for: CUFOS http://www.cufos.org/ (civil address only) MUFON http://www.mufon.com/ (civil address only) CUFON (http://www.cufon.org/) (not mentioned) Blackvault (http://www.blackvault.com/) (not mentioned) Temporal Doorway (http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman/) (not mentioned) etc. Don't you get the impression SETI is sort of an inner sanctum standing right in the middle an outer rectum? >You make a pretty strong accusation. Please give us names of any >SETI supporters that laugh at terrestrial based UFO research. My >money is on the bet that you can't. Since you want names, let me propose all the members of the Board of Directors (Frank Drake, President William Welch, Vice President Thomas Pierson, Secretary/Treasurer, John Billingham, Sandra Faber Andrew Fraknoi, Steven Mourning), the members of the Senior Scientific Personnel (Dr. Frank Drake, Dr. Jill Tarter, Dr. John Billingham, Dr. Harold Klein, Dr. Bernard M. Oliver) and the Principal Investigators (all members of NASA - Cristina Dalle Ore, Edna DeVore, Friedemann Freund & Minoru Freund, Minoru Freund Virginia Gulick, Jon Jenkins, Peter Jenniskens, Harold P. Klein, Shoudan Liang, Rocco Mancinelli, John Marshall, Jeff Moore, Richard Quinn, Farid Salama, Julie Paque, Margaret Race, Todd Sauke, Tom Shen, Seth Shostak, Jan Simpson, Jay Skiles, David Summers, Jill Tarter, Arthur Weber). They are all accessories to the crime of obscurantism for standing behind an organization advocating the following (allow me the capitals): "HOWEVER, YOU MAY WISH TO REFLECT ON THE FACT THAT IF THERE WERE INTERESTING, VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE THAT EXTRATERRESTRIALS WERE VISITING OUR PLANET, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF UNIVERSITY SCIENTISTS WOULD BE BUSY INVESTIGATING THIS IDEA. THEY'RE NOT." (http://www.seti-inst.edu/faq.html#anchor240777) I hope the wake-up call isn't to rough on spill-minded UFO buffs who believe that SETI and ufologists are on the same side. Now, how much money did you figure to put in your bet? I hope you can show some reciprocity and give me some names of SETI big shots willing to officially deny SETI's own medieval mediocrity. No names? Thought so. You have a proclivity to crash-courses in psychology: <snip> >Your grudge is with the wrong people. Grow up. <snip> >I don't normally reduce myself to insults, but you are being >just plain stupid. <snip> >If only you had any idea of the number of bricks you just laid >with your obviously hate-filled statements. But I'm sure irony >is lost on you. This here bad guy asks you if, in light of the verifiable SETI statements I have just provided, my >>Any 30 years $100-million flopped project supported by >>mainstream science on the hypothesis of extra-terrestrial life >>must be questioned by people involved in a 50 years $0.00 >>research who came up with evidence - people who are still >>laughed at by the same SOBs who support the fore-mentioned >>project. <snip> >>I hope SETI keeps on being a flop. Why? Because any success >>would give the same SOBs more un-earned respectability and more >>un-earned credibility. The people from SETI are, in my opinion, >>on the OTHER side of the fence: the side of mainstream science, >>which has deliberately and malevolently kept ufology in a >>ghetto. ...are still uncalled for? My $0.03 CAN that the facts - from the horse's mouth one might say - won't change a bit your belief in a benevolent mainstream science. What can I say? Eh? As for your delightful: >Again, Serge let his true nature show: You have no idea who I am. I am used to deal with raw - not rotten - material, and I usually don't wear gloves to express my ideas, although hurting people will never be an option. Let me say this: May we be reminded that the Stockholm syndrome is broadly the sympathy of a victim for an abuser because this sympathy is the only escape to sanity considering the stress generated by the abuser. _My_ _opinion_ is that UFO researchers should show no sympathy towards SETI. I am sure this will bring me plenty of rotten tomatoes. Will it alleviate my case if I add: eh? No? What about eheheh? Thought so, Bottom's up, Serge Salvaille AKA Dr WhyIsAKAAlwaysFollowedByDrOrDuke?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:34:24 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:40:49 -0500 Subject: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 01:08:36 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >I think that the recent SETI hoax from Britain set back the SETI >effort back by approx. three years and nine months. (subjective >estimate.) >Four years at the most, and probably less. Big deal. >One or two Adamskii's can harm UFO studies more than that. Larry, I would not be so quick to judge Adamski. To the best of my knowledge, Adamski's photos and films have not been proven to be fakes, regardless of what the Debunkers would have you believe. Why do we automatically accept the idea of Universal Life, some capable of possibly sending and receiving radio and other types of signals into space for US to receive at some point... Some capable of Interstellar and Interspacial travel to this planet... And then, when someone comes along and says that they actually had such an experience, we automatically jump on the debunkers boat and say "they are a fake". They can do more to harm ufology than SETI setbacks. This is precisesly the viewpoint which Major Donald Keyhoe took as head of NICAP. He believed that UFOs/Flying Saucers were real, but did not believe that they had "living beings" as pilots. Give me a break...You can't have it both ways. Either they are or they are not. If UFO/FLYING SAUCERS are real, then they must be piloted at some point. Possibly some are/were remote controlled craft, but at some point they must be piloted!!!! IF we can't accept that thought, then we have no business persuing this field of thought much less commenting on it. I personally take the point of view that: The Multiverse is Inhabited by Innumerable Life Forms of various stages of Evolution; physically, mentally, spiritually. How many are beyond us? Who knows...but in my opinion, some or many are. Who am I to define their capabilities? I can't even drive a car which does not have wheels. I am still earth bound. Yet, I and others like me sometimes make statments which show our lack of objective understanding in the broad view of this phenomena. REgards, Mike, the Un-Expert.... ICQ#:7508455. (502) 683-6811
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:41:30 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:47:09 -0500 Subject: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 08:45:14 EST >Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:52:06 -0500 >Subject: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! Previously, Greg wrote: >>>Bravo. Don't forget, one hoax has already set SETI back 100 >>>years. My response: >>If SETI's one hoax equals a 100 year set back, then no wonder >>UFOlogy is hard pressed to move forward. The hundreds of hoaxes >>it has endured over the years obviously adds up to a stunning >>10,000 year set back for ufology, using the formula you just >>provided. >>Just joking (as I'm sure your were?). To this, Greg offered: >Don't be TOO sure Roger! :-) >I'm afraid I may have you at a disadvantage here. >I was paraphrasing the lamenting by one of SETI's spokesmen over >the recent hoax. Perhaps you weren't aware of the statement made >to the effect that if it was a hoax, it would set SETI back a >hundred years. >In a recent discussion, I pointed out what shaky ground SETI >must be on if a single hoax could have such a devastating >effect. I'm sure his concern was over future funding and not >public opinion, however. I think you've really hit the nail on the head, Greg. This entire thread has used the terms "SETI members" "SETI supporters" "resources" and "funding" as interchangably as someone might use the terms "Xerox" and "photocopies". A Xerox copy is always a photocopy, but a photocopy isn't always a Xerox copy. Such careless application of the above terms (of which I am also guilty) can certainly lead to confusion regarding a topic that people are already divided over. For the record, when I write "SETI supporters", I refer to the vast majority of ET enthusiasts that look forward to proof of contact, regardless of whether that proof comes from SETI or Ufology. I feel that these people far outnumber the die hard "SETI only" or "Ufology only" members combined so hell-bent on dividing efforts. No matter how prominent their leaders, the masses do not always follow their lead or their ideology. Perhaps 30 years ago when SETI or grass roots UFology first started; but today's public is far more savvy than that. Your will understand, therefore, that I find it disturbing when someone as intelligent as Stan uses the term "cultists" or Serge writes in that he "hopes SETI flops". These comments are unfounded and petty attempts to create division where there should be unification of efforts. Common to all these threads was dismay and, I think, jealousy over the estimated $100 million dollars SETI has consumed over the last 30 years. As you pointed out, SETI's money is SETI's money. What they do with it is their business. If SETI wants to petition Washington for funding, more power to them. Nothing is stopping Stan or any other high profile UFologist from doing the same. Moving on, I had asked: >>Show me why >>you feel SETI is such a threat to ufology beyond a simple >>just-because type reasoning. Greg's reply: >Uh, Roger, where have I indicated that SETI is a threat to >ufology? This is, perhaps, a mis-perception on my part. As I'm sure you've been reading, I've been (singlehandedly it would seem) playing several games of tennis at once on these threads. The over all tone of the threads has been one of "us against them". If I've unfairly characterized your intent, then I apologize. >I have expressed the opinion several times that ufology is in >far better shape, and has accomplished better results with far >fewer resources. Yes, I feel SETI is a waste of money, but you >somehow equate that with "whining about funding". Wouldn't you? If Ufology had plenty of funding, no one would bother mentioning _anything_ about the money SETI has the money or the unfairness of it. Perhaps, in light of your comment about SETI being self funded, you feel offended that I unfairly put you in that group. If that is the case then I sincerely apologize. But I think if you go back through the other posts, you'll find a lot of out and out whining going on, based on nothing more than a misguided notion that SETI is part of the "haves" and Ufology, as unfair as it might be, is part of the "have nots". Beyond that, I agree with you 100% that Ufology has indeed produced far more results with stone knives and bear skins than SETI currently has with its much coveted $100 million. Perhaps that's part of the problem. I'm only half joking, here. But consider this: $100 million is, in itself, paltry funding for even a year of true scientific research whether results are achieved or not. Spread out over 30 years and that equates to less than $3.5 million per year. Peanuts. Under such circumstances, SETI can easily justify additional funding to keep research going based on the notion that it's a cheap "what if we're right" scenario. They look for one thing and one thing only, so it's easy for financial supporters to understand and "be involved" with SETI. One can't blame SETI for having beter PR. Ufology? Well, as you and I both know, Ufology is already producing results. Many potential funders might question the wisdom of priming the pump after the well's already going. On the other hand, due to many factors (most of which are internal) Ufology's results are mired in debate and interpretation, the kind that has been predicted for SETI should it ever come up with something. Add to this the seemingly impossible hurdles that the Government keeps putting up for UFO researchers and the question fairly becomes: Given a choice between Ufology or SETI, which is the easiest path for private funders? It may not be the answer we want to hear, but I feel it is the truth. Best wishes, Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:46:02 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:54:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:52:40 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth In the quotes below I origionally forgot to put the year. I have now inserted it... REgards, Mike >To quote from: 'Flying Saucer Occupants' 1967, by Coral and Jim >Lorenzen, chapter six, page 103: >The first incident to come to our attention was in a report >forwared by Joseph Rolas of Caracas, Venezuela: >"At about 2 A.M. on the morning of November 28, (1954) Gustavo >Gonzales and his helper, Jose' Ponce, set out from Caracus >for Petare, a suburb, to pick up some produce, to be put >on sale in the markets of Caracas the next morning. Upon >entering a street leading to the warehouse area, they saw a >luminous spherical object hovering about six feet off the >ground, and blocking their way. They stopped the truck and >Gonzales got out to investigate. A dwarfish-looking man- >shaped thing about three feet tall, hairy, and with glowing >eyes came toward Gonzales, who attempted to grab him. >The little fellow struck Gonzales and sent him reeling about >15 feet. The little man then leaped at Gonzales, clawed >hands extended. Gonzales drew his knife and made a stab >at the creature, striking it in the shoulder, but the knife >glanced off as though it had struck steel. Another of the >little fellows emerged from a hatch in the side of the sphere, >directed the light from what appeared to be a metallic tube >at Gonzales, blinding him. At this point the creature with >whom Gonzales had scuffeled, leaped into the sphere and it >took off swiftly and was lost to sight in seconds." >In one other incident from this book, on Page 104: >"On December 16,(1954) three young men were driving home >from a dinner engagement in San Carlos, Venezuela. One of >the men, Jesus Paz, asked the driver to stip by the road so >the he could relieve himself. Shortly after he stepped off >the side of the road, his friends heard him scream and, rush- >ing to his aid, found Paz unconscious on the ground, and a >short distance away a hairy-looking little man was running >toward a flat, shiny object which hovered a few feet off the >ground. The object rose from the ground with a deafening >buzzing sound and disappeared into the sky. >Paz was rushed to the hospital by his friends where he >was treated for several long, deep scratches on his right side >and along his spine. Authorities who interviewed the men >said that all three were badly frightened and that Paz was >in a state of shock." ICQ#:7508455. (502) 683-6811
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 98 14:38:51 PST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:03:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:02:33 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 98 11:20:40 PST >>First of all the population of the United States is not 20% >>African-American; it's about half that. >I though that it was significantly more than 10% but I don't >have the figures at my fingertips so take your word for it If memory serves, the most recent population statistics put the African-American population at around 12%. >>Second, there are black >>abductees, as Budd Hopkins and others have been telling us >>forever. (Years ago Budd even had a letter published in the NY >>Times Book Review on nonwhite abductees he'd worked with, after >>a reviewer of Missing Time expressed the mistaken view that all >>of Hopkins's abductees were white.) Third, no one has kept >>statistics. Fourth, investigators writing about specific >>abductees may not even be mentioning their racial backgrounds >>(as, for example, Hopkins does not), just as mainstream media >>accounts in this country (I don't know about Britain) do not >>mention somebody's racial background unless it is crucial to the >>story, for fear of being accused of bringing in irrelevant >>detail which some could construe as ultimately racist in >>motivation. >If Hopkins was having to refute claims that the abduction >experience was an exclusively white phenomenon ten years ago >surely the race of abductees _is_ relevant and researchers >should record this, after all we expect a lot of other >information about the people concerned The New York Times Book Review writer was making the same error it seems to me you're making: that because Hopkins did not mention the racial backgrounds of specific abductees, it was assumed they were white. Hopkins had to write the magazine to correct the error. >>Fifth, as for the "psychosocial" element, other >>list contributors have pointed to all sorts of cultural reasons >>why black abductees might be hesitant to report experiences to >>overwhelmingly white ufologists (just as black crime victims >>tend to under-report their experiences to largely white police >>forces). I assume, alas, that this is not the sort of >>"psychosocial" aspect to which our friend is here alluding. I >>fear that he's going for something far more dramatic. >Of course it's psychosocial. It's also pretty psychosocial as to >just why the overwhelming majority of ufologists are white. If >abductions _were_ happening as frequently amongst the black >community as they are amongst the white I'd expect rather _more_ >black ufologists who would be more accessible to black >experiencers. Why? Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:53:09 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:05:43 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 98 12:18:36 PST >Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:14:33 -0500 >Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House Previously, I had offered: >>When I speak of "SETI supporters", I don't >>mean high profile individuals or organizations with their own >>agendas. I'm talking about average folk. Both SETI and Ufology >>have their share of nut-niks that like to stir up trouble. But >>they are hardly the majority in either group, and I think you >>know that. Jerry's response: >If you don't mean "high profile individuals or organizations >with their own agendas", you should have made that clear. >It is the high profile individuals or organizations with their >own agendas that get the attention, publication, and funding; >if there is, at the ground level of SETI support, a feeling that >UFO research is both worthwhile and neglected, it (a) seems >not to have found its voice and (b) doesn't matter, since the >Tartars, Drakes, and Sagans have traditionally dominated >the field and defined it. It doesn't matter? I'm sorry, Jerry, but this is just plain silly. A handfull of people do NOT define what the masses think, these days. If it's that easy, then Ufology should have no problem dominating and defining it's own field. It could then move on to being more productive and organized than it has been. On the other hand if, as you say, there are only a few key people involved, then that certainly means that there are thousands of others you can't account for. To put it simply, unless you or anyone else has taken a formal poll, then you are just guessing at what the majority thinks and feels. My own observations are based on belonging to several groups related to the arts and photography. Within those groups, which combined account for several hundred, I have encountered no one that supports SETI but dogs Ufology. On the contrary, everyone I've spoken to, or had large scale group discussions with, support the idea of both SETI and Ufology. Within the general public, the notion of SETI vs. Ufology is a myth perpetuated by bitter Ufologists that feel SETI is responsible for Ufology's frustrations. To this end, I asked: >>While you included Serge's comments that supported your point of >>view, you left out Serge's petty desire that SETI fail to make >>contact with exterrestrial life. It's a pretty lame-ass wish, >>don't you think, for someone supposedly concerned with making >>contact as soon as possible. Are you afraid that people reading >>this will think him typical of all Ufologists? Think about it. Your answer: >SETI's failure to make contact with ETs is raised continually by >its critics, even as its partisans periodically made grand >pronouncements about its imminent success. If memory serves, >it was Frank Drake who was saying just a few years ago that >contact would occur before the turn of the century. Who among us >is holding his or her breath waiting for that prophecy to be >fulfilled? I won't argue with this statement. But you didn't even attempt to answer my question, which was: Why only quote the part of Serge's post that supported your point of view regarding SETI and then leave out the part where he "hopes SETI flops"? This sort of selective quoting is exactly what I mean. Perpetuating the notion that Ufology's intentions are more noble than SETI's does nothing to speed the plow for Ufology's ideals and efforts. Moving on, you clarified a previous statement with this offering: >Within science, SETI is treated with more skepticism than it is >in mainstream media. <snip> >By pointing out >SETI's tenuous position within mainstream science, I was trying >to point to one reason for the insecurity of its advocates -- >the sort of insecurity that would cause them to seek >respectability by trashing ufology. And you don't think the above characterizes some Ufology members? Or is Ufology treated with less skepticism in science than it is in mainstream media? Ufology's secure position with mainstream science must be the reason for the security of its advocates -- the sort of security and respect that would prevent them from trashing SETI. I also asked the question: >>Why focus on >>fringe idiots and zealots of SETI. These people are no more >>typical of SETI supporters than Ed Stewart or Robert Todd are as >>representatives for Ufology (or Serge, I hope). Jerry's response: >Jill Tartar, Frank Drake, Carl Sagan, Karl S. Guthke, Philip >Morrison, et al., are hardly "fringe idiots and zealots of SETI." >They would, in fact, characterize SETI supporters who think UFO >reports possibly related to ETI as "fringe idiots and zealots." >I mention the pro-UFO Ashpole and the open-mindedly >skeptical Dick as two rare exceptions in the discussion. They >are hardly typical. Agreed. They are not the majority. But Jill, Frank, Carl, Karl and Philip do constitute a majority either. High profile? Yes. Controversial in the way they personally think? Absolutely. But they no more represent the thinking of the hundreds of SETI supporters that I know than do Stewart or Todd for UFology. Finally, Jerry offered: >In my opinion, it is entirely reasonable for us, whether >ufologists or UFOphobic SETIans, to debate the crucial question >of what resources and money should be applied to the search for >ETI, and where those would be most productively employed. Agreed. But crucifixion of SETI over Ufology's woes is counterproductive to solving the large issues regarding contact with ET life. Let SETI succeed or fail on its own without Ufology coveting the resources in question. There is nothing to prevent UFology from petitioning Washington for matched funds other than Ufology's own internal squabbling and general lack of organization, none of which has anything remotely to do with SETI. Best wishes, Roger Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:48:26 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:11:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 22:01:03 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >Michael's response: >>Me thinks you protest Richard Hoagland's claims to much. You >>make a point of posting your credentials after every message, as >>though it "means something." Not to me it doesn't. Your's is >>just another opinion. And, if I may say so, a very negavitistic, >>slanderous opinion. I have not bothered to respond to your >>replies previously, but I thought I would do so this time. All >>one has to do is take the time to search out Richard Hoaglands >>past credentials, and they will see that he has a history, not >>only with NASA, but with CBS NEWS, the President's Scientific >>Council with Space Research, as well as educational programs for >>high school students in the 60's and 70's. >>I am the first to admit that even though I am aware of his past >>credentials, he seems to be "off his nut," to the average >>scientific fundamentalist, in the "90's," the "age of >>reintroduced darkness." ><snip> >Come on, man. Take a position on this! >This whole nonsense of "I am the first to admit Hoagland seems >odd to other people" is a dodge and you know it. Why dance >around the topic? The question is do _you_ believe what Hoagland >claims? Yes or no. It's that simple! If you do then admit your >agenda. If not, then what's your beef? OK. I will say this. I have talked to Richard Hoagland several times in the past. I know many people who know him and have their opinions of him. On Sightings, Jeff Rense, had Boris Said (Saa-eed) the TV Producer who produced the 1994 documentary for NBC, 'Mystery Of The Sphinx' and is currently working on a documentary on the "Opening of the Room beneath the Paws of the Sphinx." Boris Said has worked with Richard Hoagland and states his support for Hoagland. If this person feels Richard is not so far out, who am I do disagree? In fact, the times I talked with Richard, he impressed me with his knowledge. My beef, is that people with degrees behind their name get on these mail lists and spout off things as if they are all knowing. You or I are not all knowing. There are, contrary to what some people would have us believe, not _experts_ in ufology. One person's research is just as good as anothers. You prove to me the validity of your claims, and I will give you credit...but that still does not make you an _expert_. I have been studing this subject since the early 1950's and have heard just about every type of story that UFOlogy can produce. I get tired of peple born in the past 30 years jumping in here and projecting their know it all attitudes! I was here when The Atomic Bomb was dropped on Japan... I was here when The first Satellite was launched by Russia... Sputnik, Oct. 1957... I was here when the First American Astronaut was launched on a sub-orbit flight on May 5,1961 by Astronaut Alan B. Shepard in his spacecraft 'Freedom 7'...and again on July 21, 1961, when Virgil I. Grissom made his suborbital flight in 'Liberty Bell'. I was here when John Glenn made the "first US manned orbital flight in "Friendship 7" on Feb. 20, 1962... I was here when the first Americans landed on the moon, on July 20, 1969... So, I have some history behind me....I have been ridiculed from the first time I took a stand on the reality of UFOs in the Mid-1950's...so, any ridicule you wish to throw at me is just more of the same! Go for it.... >>At least, I write to you about you and afford you a right to >>disagree with me...One time. >Unless this post was originally meant as private Email, then you >haven't written to Roger at all. There's nothing to keep you >from communicating in private, so don't act so self-righteous >regarding your intent. You wanted everyone to see your message >_about_ (not _to_) Roger or you wouldn't have submitted it to >the list. BTW, there's nothing preventing Hoagland from >responding to anything that's written here. Considering his >background you just laid out, I think he can deal with the >technology. why should I send it private Email? Roger posted his defamatory statments, which if find it interesting you snipped as well as my reply to it, right here in this "public" email list. Why would I want to submit it otherwise? I feel those who were subjected to his ideology should have an opportunity to witness my reply as well. Self-righteous has nothing to do with it. I am simply tired of all these so called experts flaunting their academic cradentials and slashing people's reputations! If they can talk with respect, then you more than likely will not see me respond at all. Why? Becasue, I have hashed these same arugements out time and time again...new reader after new reader since 1989, on Space_Link BBS...prior to the Internet... Nothing has changed. The same ideas continue to appear and reappear...it is a waste of time to the "Old timers" like myself... I guess the best thing I can do is just back away from these discussions and let you continue to repeat, day after day, the same old worn out theorem that we argued about nearly a decade ago! >>After that, I am done. I will not engage in long drawn out >>threads. >How convenient. >Later, >Roger Evans Yes, it is, isn't it! REgards, Mike ICQ#:7508455. (502) 683-6811
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:54:43 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:13:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 07:44:39 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:56:26 -0500 >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:34:42 EST >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: The 'Roswell Memo' Images >>>Hi List and all - >>>Russ Estes has conducted a number of tests on the memo, letter, >>>TWX, telex seen in General Ramey's hand. Estes used a >>>professional video camera that cost about $50,000 originally, a >>>$7000 macro lens, and about $50,000 worth of computer equipment. >>>He used Adobe Photoshop 4.0 as software. He also had it flat >>>scanned at 9000 dpi which created a file of about 1.5 gigabits. >>>In other words, he used the best equipment available for the >>>imagining. >>>He also used a microscope to examine the memo. He, and others >>>used magnifying glasses, jewelers' loops, and their bare eyes. >>>They used every and all techniques to look at the memo General >>>Ramey held (and yes, they noticed that he had a ragged thumb >>>nail that could mean he bites his nails or that he had broken >>>it). >>>According to Estes, the words lengths were visible but the >>>individual letters were open to interpretation. He said that it >>>looked to him as if it was memo was in all caps. He said the >>>only word that he could be positive about was "THE". He also >>>believed that he could see the letters ELA but couldn't tell if >>>the first images in that string was quotation marks or other >>>letters that couldn't be read. He also said that he saw the word >>>"Confidential" stamped at the top of the memo and that there was >>>a smear near Ramey's thumb that could be seen as an old style >>>telephone. >>>Estes used the best equipment and software available to examine >>>the memo seen on the 16 x 20 print and said that he could not >>>see much that was not open to interpretation on the memo. It >>>was, to him, "faces in the clouds". In other words, the >>>interpretation put on the memo was based on what the viewer >>>wanted to see. >>>That has been borne out here, as others who have examined the >>>print have provided us with some other interpretations. Estes >>>said that he was disappointed that the images couldn't be >>>resolved to the point where the words were readable rather than >>>interpreted by those doing the examination. >>>Estes' examination simply confirmed the statements made by Dr. >>>Richard Haines who undertook an examination of the memo about >>>five years ago. Dr. Haines said that he couldn't read much other >>>than a few scattered letters. >>>It will be interesting to see what others see when they complete >>>their examinations of the memo. We all must be careful that we >>>don't see what we want to see in the memo. >>Golly, Kevin, this is almost, word for word, what XIXth century >>scientists thought about Koch's theories on bacteria. History >>has it that Pasteur came up later with a popular (mainstream) >>theory on the existence of micro-organisms, and is now, >>surprisingly enough, widely accepted. >>The "petite histoire" tells that Pasteur screwed Koch in the >>process. I know the later remark has nothing to do with this >>post, but I've been waiting 20 years to make an English joke on >>this historical fact, joke you can't make in French. >>Sorry, eh?, >>Serge >The real problem is not so much the equipment, but that neither >Haines nor Estes were working from a negative and neither was >working from a large enlargement of the Ramey memo area. >As I have noted the 8x10 print of the memo area is equivalent to >working from a 55x70 print. It strikes me that we might be arguing over a difference that doesn't exist. If we assume that Dr. Johnson was focusing his camera on General Ramey and not the memo held in his hand, then it might be impossible to resolve it to a point where it would become clear. It wouldn't matter if we blew it up to the size of a billboard because the memo would be relatively out of focus. This would hold true for the 16 x 20 prints that many of us are using. Again, the area of focus would be General Ramey and not the memo he was holding. I know that when I ordered the prints, I didn't tell them to focus based on the memo and not General Ramey. This problem might be eliminated on the negative, but then we have to deal with the area of focus when the picture was taken. What this means is that we might not be able to resolve the words on the memo because, when the photograph was taken, the camera was not focused at that point. In that case, we would still be attempting to get at the best guess for what the words are based on an analysis of the length of the words, the shapes of the images and how they relate to capital letters. >In addition the scan of my 20 year old 8x10 clearly shows much >less damage to the negative than do the recent prints. As do my 10 year old (well, 9 years and several months) prints made from the negatives. >That is the whole point of my offering a CDROM with scans of the >old print, of the much enlarged memo, of an 11x14 print, and 3>scans of the negative.. as well as other goodies. >Happy hunting... >Nobody said it would be easy. >Stan Friedman What I find interesting is that we still don't know what Stan and his people have found from their examination. Does his scanned negative resolve the words any better than the 16 x 20 prints, or are we still dealing with his best guess as to what the memo says? KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:40:48 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:17:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 98 13:13:03 PST >Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:36:24 -0500 >Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] Previously, a very un-informed John Rimmer wrote: >>I still refuse >>to believe that there is *no* connection whatsoever between the >>current abduction panic in the USA and concern over "alien" >>immigration. Jerry's very well worded response: >It is indeed touching, John, that you "refuse to believe there >is _no_ connection whatsoever between the current abduction >panic [sic] in the USA and concern over `alien' immigration." I >suppose it's much easier to make sweeping statements about what >Americans think when you don't live here, as you don't. >I'd sure like to know, for example, where you get the idea that >there is a "panic" about abductions in my country. As a >lifelong citizen, I can testify that the subject virtually never >comes up in my daily interactions with other Americans, even >those who know of my interest in UFOs. Some panic. It's this >sort of loose and careless use of language that years ago drove >me from advocacy of psychosocial hypotheses. >In any event, unless you can produce clear and specific evidence >(or even, for that matter, merely intriguing and suggestive >evidence) that Americans everywhere deeply fear Hispanic >immigration and therefore suffer vivid fantasies about abduction >by decidedly non-Hispanic extraterrestrials, it simply does not >matter what you believe or refuse to believe. I agree 100%, Jerry. As someone that lives in Houston, I have many friends that are Hispanic. This sort of "Assume-O-Science" is both annoying and degrading to all Americans. My advice, Mr. Rimmer, is that you apologize before posting another article if you really want readers listening to what you have to say in the future. Later, Roger Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 'EXTRA' Awards From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:46:55 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:27:54 -0500 Subject: 'EXTRA' Awards Paradigm Research Group Press Release Attn: Internet Editor/Reviewer November 27, 1998 Paradigm Research Group through its website, The Paradigm Clock (www.paradigmclock.com), has given two awards of excellence to websites addressing extraterrestrial related phenomena. The award is designed around Joe Tucciarone's magnificent painting Genesis and is called the EXTRA: EXTraterrestrial Phenomena Research Award The EXTRA acknowledges website excellence in two categories: Research/Reference: Websites devoted to or in direct support of extraterrestrial phenomena research in any or all of the six principal fields of study: sightings, abduction/contact, government posture, cattle mutilation/animal harvesting, crop circles, exo-archeology/astronomy. Personal Expression: Individual efforts to express personal experience with and/or response to the unfolding events associated with extraterrestrial related phenomena The public perception is that the UFO presence on the Internet is silly, casual, and poor in quality. Nothing could be further from the truth. The effort put into these websites is often extraordinary. Every aspect of web publishing technology is utilized and the entire field of study is richly represented. Even sites maintained by individuals to express their personal response to the unfolding events are usually well done. Personal Expression Website: Orbit (http://members.aol.com/phikent/orbit/orbit.html) Publisher: Steadman Graphics Webmaster/Author: Kent Steadman Total Hits in 1998 (10/31/98): Not available Average Hits Per Day: Not available Size: 150 meg Motto: In an infinite Cosmos all dreams are true Orbit is Kent Steadman's three-ring circus of science, graphics and anomalous phenomena (including extraterrestrial related). It is a massive, wild and crazy conglomeration utilizing just about every web authoring tool known to human kind. By mixing in humor Kent invites visitors to stretch their mind and learn about things they might never otherwise consider. Maneuvering through the Orbit website is much like being lost in a massive Las Vegas casino. You lose track of time, can't find the exits, and weave your way through a torrent of colors and moving graphics. However, unlike the casino you always leave with more than you came in with, not the least of which is a bookmark and a strong desire to return again soon. Research/Reference Website: The Mothership (http://www.ufomind.com) Publisher: Area 51 Research Center Webmaster/Moderator: Glenn Campbell Total Hits in 1998 (10/31/98): 17,365,468 Average Hits Per Day:57,311 Size: 1,467 indexed pages Motto: World's Largest and Best Organized Paranormal Website The Mothership lives up to its motto. Glenn Campbell has created an extraordinary interactive website utilizing extensive add-on programming. As regards the field of extraterrestrial related phenomena research, the Mothership holds the largest archive of UFO mailing lists on the web, a massive section with linked material encompassing the majority of people directly and indirectly connected to the field, the largest database pertaining to Area 51, an extensive UFO topics database, and much, much more. New content is constantly being added by Campbell and site visitors utilizing interactive programming. The Mothership is a motherlode of information and has not an equal in the World Wide Web among UFO and paranormal sites.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: UFO Sighting in Scotland (29 Nov '98) From: Ben Field <ben@abcfield.force9.co.uk> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:52:26 -0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:41:24 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Sighting in Scotland (29 Nov '98) Here is a recent report from Sctotland, I thought the UK members of this list may be interested. Report ===== First name: DAVID Surname: WALKER Day sighting took place: Sunday Day (date): 29th Month sighting took place: November Year sighting took place: 1998 Time sighting took place: 3.28 am/pm: AM Country: SCOTLAND Nearest town: KIRKINTILLOCH The UFO was sighted in or near an Urban Area Did anyone else witness the sighting ?: Yes Relationship of witness: MOTHER Circumstances of the sighting/experience: I was awoken by something, whether or not it was the object that awoke me I don't know. I was aware of a bright light which i thought was an aircraft coming in to land as I was never aware of a star so bright in that position before. I was about to go back to sleep when I thought I saw the object move, I rubbed my eyes and looked again, if it was an aircraft it could not possibly have moved in such a way. I watched as the object seemed to split into two and the two lights started to 'dance' around each other in figures of eight, and circles - they seemed to be at play. I was totally transfixed by this and could not take my eyes off the objects as they danced around the sky. I was frightened by what I saw as I knew this was not a dream, I awoke others in the house and it was my mother who also witnessed this phenomenon before it ceased. at one point I doubted what I had seen but I know what I saw and have no idea what it was. It Was In The East And Seemed To Be About High Aircraft Altitude. Noise info. heard during the sighting: NONE The height the UFO was from the ground was about: 30000 feet? The UFO was sighted for [ ] Minutes: 10 (Weather and Conditions) - Clear (Weather and Conditions) - Light Mist (Weather and Conditions) - Cold (Weather and Conditions) - Calm (Weather and Conditions) - Darkness (Weather and Conditions) - Stars Was any photographic record made at the time?: No The UFO Moved Erratically,Changed Colour and Manoeuvred. Did you experience any effects ie loss of time: NO permision to publish report: Yes End === All the best Ben Field BUFOD- http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: When Seti Gets An ET Signal! From: Greg St. Pierrre <strmnut@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:16:56 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:51:33 -0500 Subject: Re: When Seti Gets An ET Signal! >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 14:00:59 -0400 >>From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:30:43 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >>I have an idea. Lets have each camp elect a representative to be >>sent into a boxing ring to settle it mano e mano. Winner takes >>all available funding....oh, and a cool belt. >>Whaddya say Stanton? You seem pretty spry, think you could take >>Captain SETI? >I have already done debates with Peter Brookesmith at Oxford >University Debating Society (we got 60% of the vote), with Phil >Klass at Trinity University, with 3 professors vs Tim Good, Nick >Pope and me in the UK on TV 90 minutes. 92% of 100,000 callers >said yes to the Question Do you think aliens are visiting Earth. >Sure in a war of ideas, any time. >Stan No no, Stan, I meant a _real_ boxing ring! I'd pay good money to see you whip the tar out of some SETI weenie. :-) Greg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:45:47 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:54:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:28:37 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth <snip> >One of the planets astronomers recently discovered appears to be >a gas giant, perhaps a Saturn or Big Jup type planet. The >gravity on this type world would likely be very high. Would >these creatures, as we have seen them described, be able to live >on such a world? (hypothetically) >One would assume that on a world with more than two or three >G's, an entity might be stocky and heavily muscled. >Perhaps not. I do not know. I was hoping someone(s) has done >some thinking and/or research along these lines. <snip> Hi Jim, You have to remember that nearly all the extra-solar planets "discovered" have masses anywhere from about that of Jupiter to a brown dwarf (a star in the feather weight class). As Stan mentioned in an earlier e-mail, the reason for this is that we still do not have the technology to "see" Earth size planets (or any extra-solar planets) orbiting around nearby stars, at least not just yet. Since large planets seem to be present orbiting around some nearby stars, this would strongly suggest that there should be many more Earth size planets there too. If this is soon shown to be true, then very light built E.T.s such as the "Greys" ("Grays" with Canadian passports) can be assumed to come from these less massive planets. Has anyone suggested that the Dinosaurs or other large living creatures such as elephants originated on a Jupiter size planet with a large gravity or that pink flamingos came from a planet smaller that Earth simply because of their anatomy? As you can see, creatures of all sizes, body types, skin colours and shades, different size and types of eyes, etc. can come from a single planet, just like the many very different type of living creatures we have here on Earth. The first creaturers from Earth to be sent out into space to another world (the Moon) and back in the late 1960's were turtles (aboard a USSR Zond sapcecraft). What assumptions about the home planet of these turtles would any E.T.s who saw them make? A few years ago, some of my biology colleagues down the hall were a little disturbed with the Alien Autopsy film that was shown on T.V. If real E.T.s were so very much human looking, they felt they could not have independently evolved to look like us without the act of the same Creator who made us. Fortunately for them, most ufologists concluded that this A.A. film was a hoax and they didn't have to reconsider their assumptions. Do we have any real E.T. bodies or autopsy reports in the public domain? If not, then we have no reliable or consistent information for the physical makeup of E.T.s to give us clues about their solar system and home planet(s) anyways. Nick Balaskas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:48:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:58:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:07:52 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images >>From: "Stan Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images >>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:58:21 -0400 >Stan, old man - >>Neither Dick Haines nor Russ had this quality information to >>work with. >>Stan Friedman >So what did your scanning of the negative reveal? Can you detect >anything on the negative that hasn't been discussed here? Can >you make out the words to a degree that eliminates the ambiguity >of the information? >Seems to me that Russ Estes and Dick Haines were working with >the best material they had to offer and those results have been >posted. It also seems to me that some of the interpretations are >in direct conflict with other interpretations. If you have a >better interpretation, I know that I would like to hear what it >is. >KRandle I haven't said I had any interpretation. I will say that the better the source and the more analysts involved, the more likely that an accurate reading can be done. I wasn't knocking what Estes and Haines had done. They did the best they could with what was available. Now there is better source material available. Scans of the equivalent of the memo portion of a 55"x70" print and of the negative, and of an old print (that isn't a fingernail problem, it's a negative scratch) are more likely likely to provide an accurate interpretation. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:50:08 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:03:13 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:27:00 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia Larry, you wrote: >Perhaps unfairly, I wish to take a snippet out of the good >message below, simply to make a small point. Not unfair at all. Any message posted with the knowledge that it may be read by many and commented upon is fair game. >>Stated he is a Christian and does not believe in UFOs, but I was >>travelling down the Bruce HWY to the Strathpine exit going to >>work when I saw an object, Colour, gun metal gray and.. >Did you catch that? Yes, I caught it, and somehow I knew it wouldn't get by you unscathed. >Tony Tinnis "Is a Christian and doesn't believe in UFOs.." >As a child, I heard statements like that, they usually ran >something like : >" Well, I'm a Christian and I don't hold up gas stations." >- or - >"I'm a Christian and I don't need a Ouija board to know that >Christ is coming back." >Do you catch my drift? A good Christian does not see or believe >in UFOs. That is exactly the mindset I objected to on some >earlier post. Would you object to that mindset if it were a Buddhist, or someone of Islamic persuasion? What is difficult to accept about someone interpreting their own religion as precluding extraterrestrial life? Again, I suggest you lack the ability to see through the eyes of others. You fail to see the threat that such a possibility represents to their beliefs. Imagine, Christians might have to share their God! Humans might not be the only creatures in the universe to receive the attentions of the Almighty. I happen to be a Christian, but I consider God quite capable of creating an infinite variety of life in the universe. I place no limits on his abilities, as others would seek to do. However, I wouldn't insult someone with differing religious interpretations. Or none, such as yourself. Why do you? Do you have some underlying beef with religion in general, or Christianity in particular? Greg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:55:28 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:12:28 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:27:00 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia >Dear List readers: >Perhaps unfairly, I wish to take a snippet out of the good >message below, simply to make a small point. >>From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> >>To: UFO UpDates" <updates@globalserve.net>, >>Subject: UFO Sighting over Brisbane. >>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:05:01 +1000 >>The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia >>tkbnetw@fan.net.au >>************************************************************* >>Australian UFO Research Network Hot Line Number >> 1800 77 22 88 Free Call >>************************************************************* >>Sighting Report:UFOICQ (U/I) CE1 >>Strathpine, Brisbane Queensland 18th 11.1998 Time 3.35am >>Tony Tinnis >>Stated he is a Christian and does not believe in UFOs, but I was >>travelling down the Bruce HWY to the Strathpine exit going to >>work when I saw an object, Colour, gun metal gray and.. > >Did you catch that? > >Tony Tinnis "Is a Christian and doesn't believe in UFOs.." > >As a child, I heard statements like that, they usually ran >something like : > >" Well, I'm a Christian and I don't hold up gas stations." > >- or - > >"I'm a Christian and I don't need a Ouija board to know that >Christ is coming back." > >Do you catch my drift? A good Christian does not see or believe >in UFOs. That is exactly the mindset I objected to on some >earlier post. > >If 'Christians' can make such dumb statements, no doubt the >members of other well-known religions can as well. the opposite >may also happen at times! > >Once in a while, and perhaps by chance, a religionist or >religious leader will make a sensible statement. Whenever that >happens, I believe that they should be applauded, at least a >little bit. > >With the very best wishes > >- Larry Hatch > > ==========================================> Dear Larry, Diane, List, Judeo - Christians of the planet and Gort, Klaatu, Nicto...... get real, I take strong exception to the broad stroke assumed by both you and Diane, when using that "C" word. It is quite incorrect and possibly, insulting.... altho I am not insulted, I should be. I am a 'Christian'. I was brought up in the Catholic faith. Allow me to emphasize that word, 'FAITH!' I hate that word, because it precludes the involvement of the 'I' word... the intellect. And I also object to the use of the word Christian in _both_ contexts. Why? Christians as a rule, are not as naive as they are often portrayed to be. The only Christians whose view of the cosmos is, in my opinion and yours, '_limited_' by faith and not reason, is the conservative Christian at the level of having been born again. And this is, of course, quite correct of many Christians as well as many other religions. Recently, the pope announced the creation of a group whose sole work is to investigate the possibilities of life elsewhere. >From Rome, that is one hell of a diversion from the Church, in consideration of other views taken on moral issues, is it not? I practice a new religion, Diane and Larry and List.... it is my own born again religion, and I call it my IEBLAR, (intellectual enlightenment by virtue of logic and reason) religion. The same religion I sensed in Dr. Steven Hawking's great work. He came close to saying that there is room for God in Physics and most likely, His countenance will be revealed along with the equation defining everything, which science so desperately seeks. Larry, when you wrote: >Do you catch my drift? A good Christian does not see or believe >in UFOs. That is exactly the mindset I objected to on some >earlier post. You made me very sad and very unhappy. It is too gross a generalization and as such bears the finest scrutiny. This Christian (that'd be me) has seen for himself. And even before I saw and experienced (or rather remembered the experience) I had a much greater view of God, the Universe and Everything (thank you in advance, Mr. Adams). I will illustrate my personal views by an example. I was consulting on a high technology communications project for a major law enforcement organization during the previous presidential elections. I was having an innocent conversation with a high level cop about the elections when I opined, "Did you know that this guy, Buchanan wants to be president and still believes that this earth was created 5000 years ago and doesn't believe in life outside of humanity?" This soul looked at me and said, "I am a born again Christian, and I don't either." Whoooooooppppsssss Trust me on this one folks, this aint the real thing, it is not representative of the majority of Christian thinking, If it did, I would consider calling Kavorkian. I would not be worthy of a continuance of life. I am sure, reasonably sure, that you did not mean to generalize. So I accept your apology in advance. Jim Mortellaro Klatu to you too
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 23:06:21 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:14:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 98 13:13:03 PST >>Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:43:19 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:18:15 -0500 >>>>Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:21:18 +0000 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>>>>From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> >>Well, yes, maybe the aliens are only abducting white people. >>Shouldn't the abductionists now be looking at this issue and >>trying to discover the reason - it would seem a pretty vital >>factor in abduction research. At least the psychosocial brigade >>have got a suggestion to make - that abductions are a culturally >>related phenomenon which is more a part of Anglo-Saxon and >>Eurocentric culture than it is Afro-American. And despite the >>sneers elsewhere on this list (Jerry, I mean you) I still refuse >>to believe that there is *no* connection whatsoever between the >>current abduction panic in the USA and concern over "alien" >>immigration. >It is indeed touching, John, that you "refuse to believe there >is _no_ connection whatsoever between the current abduction >panic [sic] in the USA and concern over `alien' immigration." I >suppose it's much easier to make sweeping statements about what >Americans think when you don't live here, as you don't. >I'd sure like to know, for example, where you get the idea that >there is a "panic" about abductions in my country. As a >lifelong citizen, I can testify that the subject virtually never >comes up in my daily interactions with other Americans, even >those who know of my interest in UFOs. Some panic. Personally I'd reckon a situation where thousands, maybe tens of thousands of my fellow citizens appear to believe that they have been abducted by creatures from another planet to be something of a panic. But maybe I lack that typical sang-froid that we English are supposed to enjoy. Do you share their belief Jerry? Perhaps the fact that you're not panicking suggests that you don't. >It's this >sort of loose and careless use of language that years ago drove >me from advocacy of psychosocial hypotheses. >In any event, unless you can produce clear and specific evidence >(or even, for that matter, merely intriguing and suggestive >evidence) that Americans everywhere deeply fear Hispanic >immigration and therefore suffer vivid fantasies about abduction >by decidedly non-Hispanic extraterrestrials, it simply does not >matter what you believe or refuse to believe. Read David Jacob's 'The Threat' again if you want to see the language and imagery of racial fear used in reference to the "Aliens". -- J. Rimmer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: UFO Pop Quiz... From: Michel M. Deschamps <739411@ican.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:35:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:20:15 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Pop Quiz... >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:; >Subject: UFO UpDate: UFO Pop Quiz... >Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 6:27 AM >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:00:05 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO Pop Quiz... >Hello, list... >I've some questions for everyone that's been on my tiny little >mind for quite some time. I have no real position on this; >merely curious what any of you might think. >Here goes.... >Question #1) >Does anyone know if the number of night sightings of UFOs is >greater than day sightings. If so, then what is the approximate >ratio? >Question #2) >If the number of night sightings is disproportionately larger, >then what do you feel the reason is? >Question #3) >If the number of day sightings is disproportionately larger, >then what do you feel the reason is? >Question #4) >If the reason for more frequent night visitations is because the >ETs in question are trying to avoid detection, then why do they >bother leaving their "running lights" on, thereby making >themselves highly visible? >Question #5) >If the ET's in question leave their "running lights" on because >they want to be noticed, then why don't they show themselves >during the day when detection would be easier? >Silly questions. Thanks for your time. >Later, >Roger Evans To Roger Evans, First of all, Yes. It seems to me that the number of night time sightings is greater than daytime sightings, but am not sure of the approximate ratio. There may be somewhat accurate statistics out there containing the approximate (if not exact) ratio, but am not sure where to go and look. I don't know why, but it sure as hell isn't because they want to be secretive. Most of the sightings I've had were nighttime observations. And most times during these nighttime sightings I've witnessed, there was an amazing display of lights and colors, or an unusually high level of erratic and unearthly maneuvers on the part of the objects. Anyone who comes up with answers to numbers 2 through 5 is simply speculating. Until the ETs themselves tell us where they're from, who they are, and why they've come, we will never know. Michel M. Deschamps ufoman@ican.net ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Susan Baldwin <sblee@stc.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:36:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:22:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 98 13:13:03 PST >>Well, yes, maybe the aliens are only abducting white people. >>Shouldn't the abductionists now be looking at this issue and >>trying to discover the reason - it would seem a pretty vital >factor in abduction research. At least the psychosocial brigade >>have got a suggestion to make - that abductions are a culturally >related phenomenon which is more a part of Anglo-Saxon and >>Eurocentric culture than it is Afro-American. And despite the >>sneers elsewhere on this list (Jerry, I mean you) I still refuse >>to believe that there is *no* connection whatsoever between the >current abduction panic in the USA and concern over "alien" >>immigration.The film "Alien Nation" a couple of years ago >>hinted at some of the underlying fears. And the general >>principle "they're coming here to breed with our women": where >>have I heard that before?> >I'd sure like to know, for example, where you get the idea that >there is a "panic" about abductions in my country. As a >lifelong citizen, I can testify that the subject virtually never >comes up in my daily interactions with other Americans, even >those who know of my interest in UFOs. Some panic. It's this >sort of loose and careless use of language that years ago drove >me from advocacy of psychosocial hypotheses. >Jerry Clark Right on Jerry I live in a relatively small town in the southern US, a part of the country notorious for not taking kindly to "furriners". We have a large, growing, immigrant population. I have yet to see even one article about abductions in the local rag. As a matter of fact if I mentioned alien abductions here people would roll their eyes (unfortunately). They would laugh if I tied immigrants and alien abductions together. The US is a country of immigrants, we may discriminate against the newest and make their lives miserable but I doubt we use them to generate (offworld) alien abduction fears. Forgive my psychological ignorance here, but wouldn't you be more apt to feel that way about someone you felt was superior to you? Most everyone knows immigrants are coming here because they can make more money and have more options. Most barely speak English...if anything they are the ones that are frightened by being in a foreign country. The economy is also booming because of the immigrants, and you know of course how us Americans feel about money. ......now loss of that, WOULD cause a panic. My take on 'Alien Nation' was that it was a thinly disguised look at the difficulty one group has accepting another. Could be black and white could be different religions....I saw nothing that even remotely narrowed it down to immigrants. Susan B
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:49:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:24:24 -0500 Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:23:39 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:03:38 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: "Steven W. Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UASR]> UASR and CAUS - Statement >>If one doesn't agree with the newspaper they get, >>they switch newspapers to one that they agree with. This is >>true for Internet lists as well. >I beg to diagree ; ) Newspapers and the Internet are NOT the >same. The latter is (or was meant to be) a medium that allows >equal opportunity to express one's opinions "uncensored". You >either believe what it says or you disagree. Newspapers, and I >mean the established mainstream variety, are totally censored >and IMHO are flagrant violators as far as reporting "truth" is >concerned. They all follow "the official line" (in case you >haven't noticed?) Newspapers edit their content and are slanted >to reflect a particular point of view. Editorial control on a >mailing list is usually restricted to permitting, or not >permitting a particular message to be posted. It does not >usually edit its content, and should not (except perhaps for >typographical errors, formatting, etc). I would hope if content >is edited it be done with the permission of the author. The fact that the Internet is an uncontrolled environment, which isn't necessarily the same thing as uncensored, is both its greatest strength and its greatest weakness. It is that very freedom that allows those who maintain a "list" to do with it as they please, and in this case that has resulted in alleged censorship. The edited content in newspapers that you refer to pertains only to "Letters to the Editor" and wire copy that is designed to be edited as needed. Articles written by staff writers are usually not subject to further editing since the Editor ususally controls the writer anyway. IMO, the editing of submitted material on the Internet should only be performed with the understanding and permission of the author; however, that may be in the form of a prior warning statement. One of the more interesting facets of the "net" is the ability that it gives everyone to become a publisher/editor. Web pages and special interest 'Lists' are each a form of publishing, and it doesn't surprise me in the least that some of those are becoming tightly controlled (not a reference to this specific case). >In the case of CAUS postings being deferred from UASR's list, >this is a matter of "discretionary" censorship in that SPECIFIC >ideas and opinions from a particular faction of the >"neighborhood" (i.e., UFO community at large and those known >personalities and organizations who regularly post to certain >Internet ufo-related e-mail lists). In a genre that is badly in need of some sort of peer review that can focus our efforts, I'm glad to see some critical thinking creeping into the mix. Again, I'm not referring to this specific case, but even if I don't agree with those making the decisions, I'm glad to see that someone is at least making an effort to think about it. >Although UASR's actions, and those who followed suit, represents >a biased attitude towards certain views, it is not to be >perceived as "outright" censorship of material contained within >a document, but rather a broader censorship of opinion deemed to >be contrary to the list owner's point of view but not >necessarily all its subscribers. >This doesn't mean the censored viewpoints are incorrect. >Unfortunately, this type of "premature" censorship sometimes can >backfire if the viewpoint that was "ostracized" turns out to be >correct. But in the final analysis, just because you disagree >doesn't mean you're right! >Ignatius Very true, but keep in mind that those who feel ostracized have the ability to set up shop elsewhere and begin again. I don't want to beat this horse to death, so to speak, as it really isn't "on topic". Sorry for the diversion. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:56:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:27:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 01:10:40 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:24:28 +0100 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Christophe Meessen <meessen@cppm.in2p3.fr> >>Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>Hello, >>>Sorry, but Terry Dickinson and I both looked at Joachim's work >>>years ago and found it not to have merit for a bunch of reasons. >>>The portrayal above of the conversation with the alien is >>>fictional. >>It was based on the reading of Joachim's document. I have no >>access to Fuller's book here. >>You made a point, I should check it before spreading this >>information any further. >>But your argument saying you and other guys checked it and >>concluded the theory had to be rejected does not impress me by >>itself. I would like to hear some more substantial arguments >>explainign _why_ you concluded that the theory proposed by >>Joachim does not hold. Like planets position not matching the >>map, etc. >>I also want to make clear that the point in question is : does >>the map represent our solar system at a given date in 1961 ? We >>are not considering the question where the map comes from, etc. >>This question should be easy to answer, no ? >>>Try looking at the ZRI booklet or better yet 'The Interrupted >>>Journey' by John Fuller. Marge Fish's work had also been >>>carefully considered and passes muster. >>Could you give me the URL to this information ? >>I'm also interested in the fuller's book An Interupted Journey. >>Is this book still available ? >>Maybe we can keep this discussion of the list if you prefer. >>Bien cordialement, >>Ch.Meessen >=======================================> >Christophe... you may try: >MJF Books >Fine Communications >Two Lincoln Square >60 West 66Th Street >NY, NY, 10023 USA >This particular book is entitled: >'Incident at Exeter/The Interrupted Journey' >The book combines both stories in one volume. It also contains >the maps which were referred to in earlier posts... NY Times, >Betty Hill's unmarked and Betty Hill's marked (with stellar >assignations) in the photo gallery. It was in print as of last >year. >Jim Mortellaro At the risk of repeating myself,. Marge Fish's detailed 3D star map reconstruction work, which includes Gliese 86, is _not_ in 'The Interrupted Journey'.' It is in 'The Zeta Reticuli Incident' and is described in my article in SAGA magazine which is much shorter and harder to get. ZRI has both sides of the controversy and loads of information about stars in the local galactic neighborhood. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:59:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:30:40 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:27:00 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia >Dear List readers: >Perhaps unfairly, I wish to take a snippet out of the good >message below, simply to make a small point. >>From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> >>To: UFO UpDates" <updates@globalserve.net>, >>Subject: UFO Sighting over Brisbane. >>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:05:01 +1000 >>The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia >>tkbnetw@fan.net.au >>************************************************************* >>Australian UFO Research Network Hot Line Number >> 1800 77 22 88 Free Call >>************************************************************* >>Sighting Report:UFOICQ (U/I) CE1 >>Strathpine, Brisbane Queensland 18th 11.1998 Time 3.35am >>Tony Tinnis >>Stated he is a Christian and does not believe in UFOs, but I was >>travelling down the Bruce HWY to the Strathpine exit going to >>work when I saw an object, Colour, gun metal gray and.. >Did you catch that? >Tony Tinnis "Is a Christian and doesn't believe in UFOs.." >As a child, I heard statements like that, they usually ran >something like : >" Well, I'm a Christian and I don't hold up gas stations." >- or - >"I'm a Christian and I don't need a Ouija board to know that >Christ is coming back." >Do you catch my drift? A good Christian does not see or believe >in UFOs. That is exactly the mindset I objected to on some >earlier post. >If 'Christians' can make such dumb statements, no doubt the >members of other well-known religions can as well. the opposite >may also happen at times! >Once in a while, and perhaps by chance, a religionist or >religious leader will make a sensible statement. Whenever that >happens, I believe that they should be applauded, at least a >little bit. >With the very best wishes >- Larry Hatch I believe you will find that Hindus and Moslems and Bhuddists and Mormons have always believed that there were other civilizations out there even if Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell do not. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:36:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:32:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:43:19 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >In the meantime a number of other people wrote pointing out that >there _were_ other black abductees and also offering suggestions >as to why black people may be more reluctant to report abduction >experiences to predominantly white UFO organisations. >I accept these arguements - they are after all sociological! - >but I was rather surprised that amongst the alleged thousands of >abductees there have been over the past twenty years the only >name anyone could come up with was Barney Hill. Very few abductees let their names be known. How many names of abductees of any race could anyone come up with? I've met black abductees at Budd Hopkins's support group meetings. If anyone wants a name, I distinctly remember one who asked me, for journalistic purposes, to call her "Renee," though that's not even her real first name. She was 29 when I met her, a native of Mississppi who'd moved to New York. Her father was a minister. She was an executive with an insurance company. She told me she had conscious memories of the standard gray abduction beings, dating back to early childhood. She'd never mentioned them to anyone, because no one else ever mentioned them. She thought, in fact, that she was the only person in the world who knew these beings existed, until she saw an illustration of one on the cover of one of Budd's books, at a newstand in an airport. She bought the book, and a year later got up the nerve to call Budd. She brought a friend along to her first meeting with him, she told me, in case he turned out to be crazy. This is an entirely typical abductee story, I might add. It's quite different from many of the stereotypes of abductees I've run into in, for instance, psychology journals, and other mostly uninformed commentary. Note that Renee had conscious memories of her abductions, and that -- far from being an enthusiast who fell easily under an abduction researcher's spell -- she was wary of Budd. Another story she told me is quite characteristic, but got an extra spin because of her race. Often abductees say they go places without knowing why -- they'll drive down a street they have no reason to go down, or leave the house at unusual hours. Renee told me that, back in Mississippi, she was driving late one night and saw a red glow in the woods near the road. "God," she told me she thought, "maybe that's a Ku Klux Klan meeting." Even so, she turned off the main road at the first opportunity, and (or so she said) drove towards the glow. An abduction experience followed. The implication (which Renee believed) was that the abduction beings somehow influenced her to drive to an isolated spot -- and that their influence prevailed over Renee's conscious thoughts, which obviously would have taken her as quickly as possible in some other direction. >Well, yes, maybe the aliens are only abducting white people. >Shouldn't the abductionists now be looking at this issue and >trying to discover the reason - it would seem a pretty vital >factor in abduction research. At least the psychosocial brigade >have got a suggestion to make - that abductions are a culturally >related phenomenon which is more a part of Anglo-Saxon and >Eurocentric culture than it is Afro-American. And despite the >sneers elsewhere on this list (Jerry, I mean you) I still refuse >to believe that there is *no* connection whatsoever between the >current abduction panic in the USA and concern over "alien" >immigration. The film "Alien Nation" a couple of years ago >hinted at some of the underlying fears. And the general >principle "they're coming here to breed with our women": where >have I heard that before? I promise you, John....as soon as those of us involved in abduction work figure out why the abductors are here, what their sinister or benevolent plans are (take your choice), how their technology works, what kind of ice cream they like, and lots of other currently unknowable little details, we'll get to work on their racial preferences. More seriously, I concur with Jerry Clark on this alleged hysteria about (a) abductions and (b) Hispanic immigration -- where is it? I know that anti-immigrant legislation has been passed here and there (along with restrictions on bilingual education), but I'd put that in the same category as the current trend away from affirmative action. The sentiments involved aren't just aimed at Hispanics. But on the other hand there's more and more acceptance -- and celebration -- of the growing Hispanic population in America. Talk with people in the record business, for instance, and you'll hear (as I did once again last night, talking to Aretha Franklin's very white and very Jewish publicist) about how exciting the Hispanic market is. Not to mention the fascinating crossover possibilities in marketing Spanish-speaking singers to an Anglo audience. To talk about an anti-immigrant hysteria sweeping America is just nonsense. Besides, how do we account for Israeli abductees I've known? They have supposed screen memories, hiding what they believe are their abductions -- screen memories, that is, of Israeli army sweeps aimed at Palestinians. After an abduction experience, they wake up convinced the Israeli army had been through their area, looking for Arabs. Here you have abductees in effect siding with the despised minority, or at least putting themselves in the minority's position. The "abduction fantasies are generated by fear of immigrants" theory, in any case, should be generalized to include a fear of any kind of outsider. American white people, aware at last that they're a minority on a global scale -- and that they're not even the majority any more in large parts of their own country -- start panicking. As part of the panic, they start to generate fantasies of an even more alien invasion. Once the theory has been formulated properly, how could it be tested? Presumably, white abductees would display a conscious or unconscious fear of minorities and immigrants. Unfortunately for the theory, though, I'd say the abductees I've met are unusually open to various kinds of personal difference. They seem far less likely to get upset at (earthly) outsiders than the population at large. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: WingMakers Update - HOAX -11.29.98 From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:03:12 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:37:15 -0500 Subject: Re: WingMakers Update - HOAX -11.29.98 > From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:32:17 EST >To: Updates@globalserve.net, >Subject: WingMakers Update - HOAX -11.29.98 >She sure is a pretty site, though! I like the first two musical >selections: "Warm Presence" and "WingMakers" -ufoseek >---------------------------------------------------------------- >http://www.wingmakers.com >WingMakers Update - HOAX -11.29.98 >(ewolfe@involved.com): >A few minutes ago, it finally occured to me to check Usenet for >any mention of wingmakers or Mark Hempel, the site owner. >I found a lot more than I expected. >In one post to an artist's group, he says the site took him >three years to create, he made everything on it that you see, >and that it is an idea for a movie or tv series. He calls it an >IMAF. Immersive Multimedia Art Forms. >He posted that to alt.art.video on the 24th of this month. On >the 20th of this month, he sent a message to several other >groups, (spammed them really,) saying that he had just found a >website that spoke of an alien race called Wingmakers and asked >if anyone else had ever heard of them. He went on to claim that >there was a lot of info on the site, including music, but he >couldn't get the music to work for him. >If nothing else, that alone proves his dishonesty. He owns the >site, and acts as though he stumbled across it. Anyway, thought >I'd let you know what I found out. The guy did a brilliant job, >but it disappoints me that people will go to such lengths to >fool other people. >When some truth of some matter finally does come along, we'll >all be too skeptical to even believe it after having been fooled >so many times before. >______________________________________________ >From: "Mark Hempel" <mhempel@southbaygroup.com> >Subject: Wingmakers web site >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:30:10 -0600 >Hi. >Thanks for your interest in the wingmakers web site. If you're >listed on this email, you've either been contacted by me to help Snip====================================> Dear List, Sirs, Madams and any other entities which may be tuning in.............. If it were possible for truth to jump out of a page and smack you right in the face (even without a stainless steel face mask) it would be your words... >When some truth of some matter finally does come along, we'll >all be too skeptical to even believe it after having been fooled >so many times before. If I were a skeptical, litigious, conspiracy-minded old fool, I would call this the mother of all conspiracies, outdistancing the Kennedy assassination, UFOs, God, the Universe and _literally_everything_! It would be a masterpiece of planning, of cunning and analysis with which to use as a weapon against not merely UFO's, but all truth. Jeese, garshdarn good thing I aint no guldarned conspiracy-minded maroon, aint _that_ the truth! Dr. Gesundt wrote this for Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:41:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:39:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth Hi Errol, Dear Friends, Hello List! Thank you for remembering our work on the famous Hill Star Map. When we reviewed the work of Mrs. Marjorie Fish and all the statements of the experts at the time Mrs. Fish's work came to public attention (and again: Thanks to Stanton Friedman for sending us the copies of the ASTRONOMY reprint years ago), we became aware of certain inconsistencies in the interpretation of Mrs. Fish. We think that it is very important to look closely to the course of events of the abduction of Betty and to follow the line of the conversation with the "leader". If you do so, then it immediately comes clear that "he" intended to give some information to Betty - but not these sophisticated ones about distant star systems as Mrs. Fish supposed. The "leader" tried to calibrate Betty's astronomical knowledge and because "..she practically knew nothing...", he stopped only a few moments after the conversation had begun. The beginning of communication between two parties who know from each other that they don't know much about each other is always something simple - or universal. Such as a raised hand, a smile, a circle... Something that I know that he/she knows that I know what he/she might know. So an astronomical lecture always starts within the planetary system: let's see, do you know how many planets are in your home system? And while you are asking, you always have a map in your hand, on the wall, in the computer or in the hologram in front of you... Our suggestion is that what happened aboard the space ship was just the beginning of a lecture about planets and stars and not the end with the final revelation. The "leader" never mentioned anything about his home, there is no hint in the printed documents/books that "his" homeplanet was in Betty's map. I would like to shorten this here, you can read more of these arguments on the website. We know that some respected researchers have already made their final statements about the case such as the late Prof. Carl Sagan, Terence Dickinson and others. Some have talked to Betty herself or have had exchange of letters. We have not talked to Betty so far but have only revisited the available material up to date. Recently, an American MUFON member visited his girlfriend here in Berlin and asked for a meeting to talk about our findings. From the beginning, it was very clear that he rejected our results because: 1. he had his own ideas and 2. he thought that our approach to the Map and what it might contain was too simple, not extraterrestrically enough. Maybe this is the crux in general with the state of our current "cosmic understanding": we are still anthropocentric: We think we have to understand everything - even extraterrestrial behaviour. And if we don't understand, we reject any other explanations - and among these the right ones, of course. The Hill case is a challenge and the Map, too. We think we should consider any explanation - the logical the better - without looking who (VIP or not)provided it. We don't think that the outlook of and the angle within Betty's Map was designed just "by chance". It made sense in the context of what happend to Betty at all. Our working hypothesis was: find out at what time and from where. Yes, there was/is a "vantage point" in this map - and we found it. We have great respect to many well known researchers but we dare to present our results- equally. Decide for yourself. We applaud to all the work and all the researchers who have spent so much time and so much energy in the past to find out what Betty Hill had seen. Two ways to find our New Discoveries in Betty Hill's Star Map: 1.: type: http://www.ufos.de --->Themen--->A--->Abduktionen New Discoveries... 2.: type: http://www.blarg.net/~badzmaru/Betty_Hill The URL of "2.:" is the site of Doug Girling who did a great job to convert my English in an understandable form for you and to build a website at times when I was a bloody Internet Greenhorn. On this website you'll find the whole text, tables and star maps. Thanx, Doug, I enjoyed the time we had with this site so far! Please feel free to send me emails with your comments. Joachim Koch International Roswell Initiative, Germany
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 29 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:52:09 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:42:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:52:40 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:28:37 EST >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth <snip> >>Howdy Michael... >>Actually yes. >>One of the planets astronomers recently discovered appears to be >>a gas giant, perhaps a Saturn or Big Jup type planet. The >>gravity on this type world would likely be very high. Would >>these creatures, as we have seen them described, be able to live >>on such a world? (hypothetically) >I would suggest that these creatures, beings, would also be >extreemely large if they evolved on a planet of that size. I >think they could be possibly 25 -30 feet tall by our standards. >They would be able to perform almost "magical" feats of strength >and agility on our planet. >As we have been told, the "small grey" beings which we are >allegedly dealing with, would seem to have evolved in a >planatary system of light gravity, with possibly little or no >sunlight...possibly similar to what Venus appears to be. >Note that they are very rarely seen walking around in direct >sunlight. I have heard reports where they were seen in >daylight, but again they are rare. >Note also that the alleged abductees claim that the atmosphere >and lighting conditions in the "craft" are cool. Flourescent >type light emiting from somewhere in the craft...Not hot light >as our light bulbs produce. >I also am saying this hypothetically...I have no experience with >these beings, so I am not an expert here, just opinionated. <g> >>One would assume that on a world with more than two or three >>G's, an entity might be stocky and heavily muscled. >In fact, such creatures have been reported in South America, >back in the late 50's to early 60's. >The were very short, stocky, and very hairy. They were reported >in some instances to actually "attack" humans with whom they >came in contact. >To quote from: 'Flying Saucer Occupants' 1967, by Coral and Jim >Lorenzen, chapter six, page 103: >The first incident to come to our attention was in a report >forwared by Joseph Rolas of Caracas, Venezuela: >"At about 2 A.M. on the morning of November 28, Gustavo >Gonzales and his helper, Jose' Ponce, set out from Caracus >for Petare, a suburb, to pick up some produce, to be put >on sale in the markets of Caracas the next morning. Upon >entering a street leading to the warehouse area, they saw a >luminous spherical object hovering about six feet off the >ground, and blocking their way. They stopped the truck and >Gonzales got out to investigate. A dwarfish-looking man- >shaped thing about three feet tall, hairy, and with glowing >eyes came toward Gonzales, who attempted to grab him. >The little fellow struck Gonzales and sent him reeling about >15 feet. The little man then leaped at Gonzales, clawed >hands extended. Gonzales drew his knife and made a stab >at the creature, striking it in the shoulder, but the knife >glanced off as though it had struck steel. Another of the >little fellows emerged from a hatch in the side of the sphere, >directed the light from what appeared to be a metallic tube >at Gonzales, blinding him. At this point the creature with >whom Gonzales had scuffeled, leaped into the sphere and it >took off swiftly and was lost to sight in seconds." >In one other incident from this book, on Page 104: >"On December 16, three young men were driving home >from a dinner engagement in San Carlos, Venezuela. One of >the men, Jesus Paz, asked the driver to stip by the road so >the he could relieve himself. Shortly after he stepped off >the side of the road, his friends heard him scream and, rush- >ing to his aid, found Paz unconscious on the ground, and a >short distance away a hairy-looking little man was running >toward a flat, shiny object which hovered a few feet off the >ground. The object rose from the ground with a deafening >buzzing sound and disappeared into the sky. >Paz was rushed to the hospital by his friends where he >was treated for several long, deep scratches on his right side >and along his spine. Authorities who interviewed the men >said that all three were badly frightened and that Paz was >in a state of shock." >>Perhaps not. I do not know. I was hoping someone(s) has done >>some thinking and/or research along these lines. >Well, I am not a scientist, therefore, my input may not be as well >received, but the "thinking" part, I hope to have demonstrated. <g> >>However your opine is appreciated, thank you Sir. >Thanks. I appreciate you saying so.... >>It would be nice to know as much as possible, about my hosts. >>Knowledge is power they say. >Your "Hosts???" Would you care to elaborate on the meaning of this? >Useful knowledge is power...otherwise, it is just taking up space. <G> >>(Michael) ======================================> Certainly, Mike, It is my intellectual assentation to the likelihood that these little bastards have had me over for an evening of fun and frolicking - to which I refer. It is no longer important to me that such suspicions remain secret. As I have stated on other occasions (and quoting Frank Herbert), "Truth is the foundation for all morality....which is profound thinking, when (you) consider just how unstable the truth can be." It is my hope that my recall will continue to grow, and I would not have to resort to other methods of remembrance. Ergo, my "hosts!" Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 03:05:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:59:19 -0500 Subject: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:34:24 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >To the best of my knowledge, Adamski's photos and films have not >been proven to be fakes, regardless of what the Debunkers would >have you believe. Err... Mike, surely you're _not_ serious here? You are serious?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:27:01 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:02:23 -0500 Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:22:33 -0500 >Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:37:08 -0500 >Subject: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House Previously, Serge wrote: >>>Any 30 years $100-million flopped project supported by >>>mainstream science on the hypothesis of extra-terrestrial life >>>must be questioned by people involved in a 50 years $0.00 >>>research who came up with evidence - people who are still >>>laughed at by the same SOBs who support the fore-mentioned >>>project. <snip> >>>I hope SETI keeps on being a flop. Why? Because any success >>>would give the same SOBs more un-earned respectability and more >>>un-earned credibility. The people from SETI are, in my opinion, >>>on the OTHER side of the fence: the side of mainstream science, >>>which has deliberately and malevolently kept ufology in a >>>ghetto. Incredibly, Serge now claims neutrality by writing: >Hold your horses Roger, and don't make this a personal debate. Let's get some things straight, wise guy... #1) I'm a SETI supporter and I don't much care for being called an SOB. So don't hand me this crap about not making this personal, okay? #2) If SETI or any group succeeds then any credibility will be well earned. #3) If you really feel that 30 years is too damn long for the money they've spent, then the sooner contact is made, the better. Right? Oh, yeah. I forgot. You're the only Ufologist on record that hopes contact is NOT achieved unless it's by the "right" group of people; i.e. Ufologists. It's THAT kind of logic which has deliberately and malevolently kept ufology in a ghetto; not the existence of SETI. Drop out of competition mode, Serge. As one SOB to another, I see no reason why SETI and Ufology can't work hand in hand. But then again, maybe I'm just not driven to "win". Funny. I had no idea that's what Ufology was all about... Later, Roger Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Mendoza - Peter Brookesmith <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:53:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:04:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 14:36:51 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza: John-- I appreciate the irony whereby you, as a Puerto Rican, consider yourself to be an abductee, and are at the same time under the impression that someone has said that this is because you are, in effect, afraid of being immigrated by yourself. As my computer tells me from time to time, you can't complete that operation because "the folder 'Dago' cannot be moved into itself". I haven't checked with Peter Rogerson (I suspect he is not awake at the moment, 2:00am), but it's not impossible that his comment - lovingly, repeatedly, and not entirely atypically, quoted out of context by our mutual friend Jerome Clark - was derived from a piece by Steve Mizrach first published in the "Bulletin of Anomalous Phenomena" Vol 5 #3 (1994). In the interests of sanity - fat chance - I'm pasting this piece below. As Mizrach says in so many words toward the end of the article, the race issue is not a complete explanation for the abduction phenomenon, but neither can it be ignored when trying to analyse it. In the interests of sanity also, it seems to be necessary to point out that no one with a disinterested curiosity about this issue would *ever* suggest that "Americans everywhere deeply fear Hispanic immigration and therefore suffer vivid fantasies about abduction by decidedly non-Hispanic extraterrestrials". Blanket junk like that isn't necessary, and anyway wasn't either implied or stated by John Rimmer. All the Hispanic connection needs is white Anglo-Saxon-type, or even black, come to that, *abductees* to have some sense of their culture (heritage... whatever) being at risk by immigrants; and it's demonstrable that Hispanics are the fastest-growing non-WASP ethnic group in the USA. This is the kind of stuff abduction researchers ought to be asking questions about, but apparently are not. If they're not because of some cretinous perception of others' potential perception of their political correctness, so much the worse for them, but far worse for the pursuit of knowledge and the temple of science. Immigration is a subject, I might add, on which Brits in general are at least as exercised as US citizens, and with less room in which to store the incomers, and with moral complications deriving from imperial idealism at least as great as those deriving from that uplifting inscription at the base of Miss Liberty's statue. I think this gives us some locus standi (that's Latin) in discussing the subject. best wishes Percheron D. Missourifoxtrotter Certified Dago & Honorary Wog "Dark White" -------- from: Bulletin of Anomalous Phenomena Volume 5 Number 3 (1994) UFO ABDUCTIONS AND RACE FEAR Steve Mizrach In the 1990s, we seem to be confronting two mysterious parallel social tremors. Lest anyone think that the UFO abduction panic has been driven into hiding by accusations of overeager hypnotists implanting false memories, they need only to turn to the recent Roper Poll (admittedly extremely flawed in its design) to see that the numbers of people believing themselves to be abductees is growing exponentially. The other social tremor which some people seem to think has vanished from our 'enlightened' and 'colorblind' society is a continuing anxiety over interracial marriage and 'cross-breeding' of the races. As many people know, it is often the case that what the conscious mind claims it has integrated and accepted may still provoke unconscious hostility. Hence movies like Jungle Fever which remind us just how close precarious feelings about interracial dating are to some social fault line. Recently, a Southern principal tried to cancel a high school prom because of what he perceived to be 'widespread' interracial dating, and told an interracial child that she was a 'mistake' that her parents 'never should have had.' In both North and South (just look at Bensonhurst), white accusations still flow like a torrent whenever a black man is seen coming too close to a white woman. As an anthropologist, I know full well that the biological basis of much of what is believed about 'race' is quite dubious. All of us belong to one race, the human race, because all humans can succesfully breed with each other, and produce offspring that are still fertile - as opposed to, say, the mating of horses and donkeys which produces mules. But race is a critical social construct, which informs many aspects of what people think and believe about their fellow humans. In the U.S., it is quite clear that (unlike Latin America) race is deeply polarizing and dichotomous. No intermediate shades or gradations are permitted. Either you're white, or you're not. If you've got even a drop of "black blood" (though, of course, all blood is red), then you're black, at least according to the laws in many Southern states. As one Southerner once pointed out, "If you take white paint, and mix in just a tiny drop of black, it's not white anymore..." Are these two parallel social currents connected? Here I will attempt to argue that they are. Precisely because most people don't believe in the reality of UFO abductions, and refuse to recognize the reality of continued social disapproval of "race mixing," (in both the white and black communities - the latter starting to increasingly voice protest over adoptions of black children by white families) both of these currents are somewhat 'underground,' and maybe not dealt with by social scientists as much as they should be. Possible connections have been especially ignored. The UFO abduction researcher James Pontolillo has made a great contribution to the literature in his Demons, Doctors, and Aliens, released by RDM Publications. Pontolillo points out the connections between the UFO abduction panic and two earlier episodes - the "witch craze" in Europe from the 15th-18th centuries, and the "white slavery" panic in the late 19th and early 20th. I find it interesting that the central factor in both panics was concern over the control of women's reproduction and the fear that they were mating with 'outsiders' of some kind. Many nationalist writers have often called women the "guardians of the race" - i.e. it is their task to reproduce the nation, physically and culturally. During the "witch craze" period, there were many accusations that women (and men) were performing sorcery or committing blasphemy against Christian symbols and doctrine. However, the overarching concern of the inquisitors (in such typical works as the Malleus Maleficarum ) seemed to be the "consorting" of women with incubi and demons after being whisked off to their Sabbats. Questions always seemed to focus on the size and feel of the Devil's "member," and as to whether the women preferred the demons to mortal lovers. There was some argument over the matter, but it was generally felt that the result of such intercourse would be "demon children," and so when their mothers were burned, many of their children went into the pyre also. (Interestingly, this era in European history was one in which racial stereotypes were first beginning to emerge, largely due to greater contacts <and intermarriage> between Europeans and Moors, Indians, Turks, Asians, and so on.) It was thought that demon-human intercourse inevitably produced marks - the so-called "witches' teat," between the anus and vagina - which inquisitors sought with pins and other painful implements... During the "white slavery" panic of the early 20th century, it was thought that swarthy foreigners were kidnapping white women and selling them into slavery in foreign lands. Once again, moral outrage seemed to be directed not at these rumored acts of kidnapping and sale. It was that these non-Europeans were impregnating white women and making them bear interracial children, and the implication in many cases was that the women were consenting to it willingly. That this was a nativist period in American history was fairly clear. It was a time when the eugenics movement was picking up force, and anti-immigrant hostility against Eastern and Southern Europeans was causing many immigration restrictions to be passed. One of the effects of the "white slavery" panic was that it gave men a tighter rein over their wives - after all, if they didn't stay in the home, some wicked foreigner might kidnap them and take them off to Frodobia... Both episodes show a certain psychic similarity. Both occurred in periods when white Europeans (or 'WASP/Euro-Americans') were starting to become concerned about women becoming involved with nonwhite men. Abram Kardiner, in his Psychological Anthropology texts, suggested that many of the systems of myth and folklore in a society can be seen as symbolic projections of experiences from childhood or other anxieties. The "witch craze" and "white slavery" panics both involve symbolic concerns over the coming of "outsiders" carrying off women and breeding with them. Anyone who has not already noted the parallel with UFO abductions may not have been awake for the last ten years... Budd Hopkins, John Mack, David Jacobs, and other UFO investigators have been strongly promoting the "hybridization hypothesis" of UFO abductions. The "Grays" are supposedly kidnapping women and impregnating them, then returning nine months later to steal the fetuses before they can be born. The Grays are apparently doing so in an effort to revitalize their genetic pool, creating some sort of 'hybrid race' from mixing with us. The issue of how such reproduction can be possible - considering the existing genetic differences that must exist between the 'aliens' and us - is glossed over. What I find most interesting, of course, is this color: gray is the color you get when you mix black and white together. Though UFO abductions do appear to be an international phenomenon, the lion's share of cases seem to come from Anglo-Saxon-rooted countries like the United States, England, South Africa, and Australia. Interestingly, all of these countries face race problems - whether it be with Aborigines, African-Americans, Zulu and Xhosa, or Caribbean blacks from the commonwealth. In the Third World, many people from these First World countries commonly encounter "organ removal" panics. Rumors have spread like wildfire that Americans in Guatemala are kidnapping small children and "harvesting" their organs for transplants. The similarity between these panics and UFO abductions should also be fairly obvious.... The connection between the UFO phenomenon itself (long before the current wave of abductions) and race is curious and bizarre. Many of the first group of UFO "contactees" - who went aboard the flying saucers willingly, to make love to gorgeous Venusians (but never producing offspring) - were loosely affiliated with the "Silver Shirt" movement of the 30s and 40s, a sort of homegrown American fascism which, among other things, opposed Roosevelt and WW II. The 50s contactees seemed to report that the majority of the saucer pilots were "Aryans" - long-haired, blonde, tall beings from Venus or other planets in the solar system. The "Aryans," when not warning humanity about atomic war, often gave messages promoting race harmony, but softly warning against racial intermixture and the "population explosion" of the Third World masses... There has been a lot written about the UFO-Nazi connection. Some of the Nazi elite are thought to have held the theory that there was a hidden race deep within the Earth (the masters of the Vril) which they could make contact with through the poles. One of the early theories about UFOs was that they were craft piloted by Nazis who had fled after WW II and made contact with this race within the hollow earth (an idea that Ray Palmer, UFOlogy's "father," often assented to.) Today, there are groups of neo-Nazis who believe that the different races of the planet were "seeded" in various geographical locales by different alien groups, and charged with competing for planetary dominance... These Neo-Nazi groups are obsessed with the idea of extraterrestrial "bloodlines" in human groups. Many think that "star seed" people are descendants of the Celtic races - Basques, Irish, Welsh, Bretons, etc. - and that one of the hallmarks of their extraterrestrial origin is the Rh Negative blood type. The migrations of the Celtic peoples were a result of "racial memory chromosomes" implanted by their ancestors. Some of this neo-Nazi literature suggests that the other "lower" races were the result of genetic experimentation by the aliens - attempts to crossbreed "pure" Aryan types with animals and other lifeforms. It's amazing the degree to which racial nationalists of all kind have seized onto the UFO abduction phenomenon. In DC, I encountered a black nationalist at a fair whose table had literature linking the sinister "Grays" to the International Bankers' Conspiracy and the Zionist Peril. In a nutshell, this pamphlet merely restated the paranoid theories of 50s contactee John McCoy, suggesting that the "International Bankers" had made a deal with the aliens, the substance of which largely being that they would plan UFO abductions and sightings so as to create international financial panics which would allow them to grab up the world's currency. That UFO abductions have something to do with race fear appears to be fairly plain. The U.S. is currently dealing with the fact that its white majority is decreasing... thus provoking all the debates about "multiculturalism." White supremacists take to the talkshow airwaves every day to proclaim the dangers of "race betrayal" by those who "miscegnate" and "pollute" the race. And Budd Hopkins tells us that women - the majority of whom are white and WASP, heartland, middle-America types - are being carried off by aliens to achieve a "hybridization" of them and us... Yes, nonwhite men are abductees, too. Just look at Barney Hill. (The interesting thing about this case, to which many have pointed, is that his wife Betty was a white woman, and a civil-rights worker. The couple faced a great deal of hostility, and thus lived a semi-reclusive existence, due to their interracial marriage. It is curious that this case in 1961 pretty much "set off" the abduction wave which followed.) I think we must separate the abduction phenomenon from its interpretation by various groups. I have elsewhere suggested that UFO abductions may involve 'real,' if nonphysical experiences, and that they happen to all kinds of people. However, what is curious to me is that the majority of abduction investigators have chosen to focus on white, middle-class women as abductees. They have chosen women because of their 'hybridization' hypothesis - after all, just look at all those 40s and 50s sci-fi comics where the Green Martian is dragging off some poor housewife, kicking and screaming - and perhaps have ended up mostly focusing on white women because of certain class/race prejudices about the reliability of certain kinds of witnesses. They have chosen to focus on the sexual/reproductive aspects of abductions, and not to examine others... and to look for marks - scars, cuts, etc. - as the telltale stigma of abduction. One other aspect of abductions that few people have pointed out, which is also reproductive in nature, is that mechanical devices are often used to achieve the result. Some people have reported alien-human intercourse. But the majority of cases involve impregnation (or the removal of sperm/ova) through the use of some mechanical device. Some complex psychological phenomenon - perhaps growing anxiety over the impersonality of new fertility techniques or abortion - may be what is being 'projected' here. However, I suspect it is linked to another unconscious anxiety - the growing unease that people are beginning to feel over the intersection of the mechanical and the human, (Just look at that classic movie Demon Seed , where a computer rapes and impregnates a woman, giving birth to a 'cyborg' baby.) This is an aspect of UFO abductions which these investigators have completely ignored. Their focus on the 'hybridization hypothesis' shows the extent to which race fear may be one of the unconscious logics behind the UFO abduction panic. But I would urge other investigators to separate the panic from the phenomenon. Abductions have to do with more than just race fear. Something very complex is going on, just as was the case with the "witch mania" in Europe. While the inquisitions of that period have everything to do with the inquisitors' obsession with women's contact with demons, this is entirely separate from the question of what constituted the perhaps very real basis of the witch-cult. Margaret Murray suggested that the witches' religion was a survival of pre-Christian goddess worship and paganism. Other commentators think that many of the witches were simply midwives and herbalists who were resisting the growing dominance of male-practiced "physick" or medicine. The point is, other things were involved besides just male control of European women's reproduction. I think that the same thing can be said for the UFO abduction phenomenon. To say it is nothing but a projection of race fear and reproductive control is reductionist; but to ignore the role that race fear has played in its continuing interpretation is naive.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:15:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:13:08 -0500 Subject: Re: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:30:43 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: When SETI Gets An ET Signal! >>If SETI announces the discovery of the signal to mainstream >>science, what will happen? The acceptance that the signal is >>from an intelligent extraterrestrial civilization will require >>study by mainstream science. >Quite correct, Doc. And, as our esteemed colleague Roger pointed >out in another post: >>When SETI or the study of UFOs shows an immediate potential for >>a marketable technology, big business will mow down scientists in >>the frenzy to capitalize on this new found commodity. >I recommend the SETI folks begin "breath holding lessons" in >preparation for that fateful day. We can easily extrapolate from >the treatment given ufology by mainstream science, debunkers, >and the press to forsee what SETI will have to endure. I never thought I'd be defending SETI scientists, who strike me as somewhat limited and silly when they speculate on what aliens might be like, and on why it's impossible that they'll ever visit us. But they've done a lot of thinking about what an alien signal might look like, and have come to some agreement. I don't say that some possible SETI findings might be controversial. But some might be unmistakable. If a signal comes in at a frequency equal to some universal constant -- the wavelength of the hydrogen atom has often been suggested -- and if it consists of repeated patterns of pulses, representing the series of prime numbers....who's going to say it doesn't come from some intelligence? There are other detailed protocols for determining whether it's alien, rather than just some reflection of earthly broadcasts, or an earthly hoax. SETI scientists may be thick-headed about UFOs, but they're not exactly dumb. Does anyone imagine -- anyone who knows who science works, that is -- that they could ever have gotten funding for their SETI radio search, if they hadn't been able to specify how they'd recognize what they're looking for?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: WingMakers From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:03:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:16:45 -0500 Subject: Re: WingMakers >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 03:24:27 -0800 >To: Updates@globalserve.net, >From: Michael Theroux <theroux@borderlands.com> >Subject: WingMakers >"As for the artistic production, there really wasn't much >that we did. The computers did all the interpretative work >and essentially performed the production for that matter. >We had some of our staff perform overdubs on various versions >to experiment with the compositions. The music was very >popular, particularly when you listened to it at a sampling >resolution of 384-bit." Perhaps someone could tell me what this is supposed to mean. There's no such thing as a "sampling resolution of 384-bit." In digital audio, sampling resolution is measured in samples per second. CDs are recorded at 44,000 samples per second. Some pro-quality digital audio gear allows recording at 48,000. The new DVD discs are recorded at 96,000 (and appear to sound better than CDs). There _is_ one digital audio parameter that's measured in bits -- sample size, which measures the precision with which the sampled musical data is reproduced. Until recently, most professional audio was 16-bit. Now we're seeing 20-bit. 384-bit samples would be, shall we say, remarkably esoteric, not to say totally unknown. Nor is it clear what benefit we'd get from 384-bit sound, even if it existed. 16-bit recording allows vastly more sonic information than 8-bit. An approximate analogy is color depth in computer graphics. 8-bit graphics give you 16 colors, which is pretty crude. 16-bit graphics give you 256 colors, which begins, very roughly, to look like real life. 32-bit graphics have 32,000 colors, and 64-bit graphics have millions of colors, which is fewer than the human eye can see, but more than good enough for professional graphics work. 384-bit sound would be staggeringly wasteful. Imagine 384-bit color -- trillions upon trillions of shades, far more than any eye can distinguish. 384-bit sound would encode distinctions that wouldn't be even close to audible. I've never seen anyone involved with audio who thinks such a thing is even remotely necessary. There's a lot of talk about sample rates; some people argue that very high rates are necessary for truly nuanced sound. (The limit of human hearing is a little over 20,000 cycles per second. Digital sound can't encode anything greater than half the sample rate. Some people argue that the 44k sample rate of CDs samples the very highest frequencies too coarsely -- a 22,000-cycle sound would be divided into only two samples -- which in theory might sacrifice very subtle nuances. This might show up in such niceties as room ambience and extremely precise spatial placement, things most listeners don't pay much attention to.) DVD recordings are sampled, as I've said, at 96k, which some purists say is the minimum that should have been acceptable in the first place. But I've never heard anyone say there's any need for insane sample sizes like 384-bit. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 22:20:30 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:29:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:54:43 EST >Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:13:40 -0500 >Subject: Re: Randle On The 'Roswell Memo' Images Previously, Kevin wrote: >It strikes me that we might be arguing over a difference that >doesn't exist. If we assume that Dr. Johnson was focusing his >camera on General Ramey and not the memo held in his hand, then >it might be impossible to resolve it to a point where it would >become clear. It wouldn't matter if we blew it up to the size of >a billboard because the memo would be relatively out of focus. If the image area on the memo was out of focus, then what you say is absolutely correct. However, as best as I can tell from the photo, a flash was used which meant that depth of field was probably fairly decent, despite the larger format neg. I doubt that Ramey was in focus while the memo in his hand was out of focus. I don't think the lens being used was very long so there shouldn't have been a rapid drop off in depth of field. >This would hold true for the 16 x 20 prints that many of us >are using. Again, the area of focus would be General Ramey and >not the memo he was holding. I know that when I ordered the >prints, I didn't tell them to focus based on the memo and not >General Ramey. I think there's a misconception here. First off, depth of field won't change within the captured image, no matter what the lab technician does. Second, you should not have to tell the lab a thing. If the person doing the print did their job right at all, then uniform sharpness should have been achieved across the entire print. Anything less would be immediately noticable to the naked eye; no magnifying glass needed. If the memo isn't as sharp as Ramey, then you did not get your money's worth on the prints! Take 'em back! >This problem might be eliminated on the negative, but then we >have to deal with the area of focus when the picture was >taken. As I stated before, looking at the original neg is the best way to go; possibly with a microscope so that scan resolution and contrast are not issues. I agree with you, Kevin. I'm curious what Stan and team has come up with off of the original neg. Any news, Stan? Later, Roger Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images From: michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 22:47:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:36:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:55:28 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia >I will illustrate my personal views by an example. I was >consulting on a high technology communications project for a >major law enforcement organization during the previous >presidential elections. I was having an innocent conversation >with a high level cop about the elections when I opined, "Did >you know that this guy, Buchanan wants to be president and still >believes that this earth was created 5000 years ago and doesn't >believe in life outside of humanity?" > >This soul looked at me and said, "I am a born again Christian, >and I don't either." > >Whoooooooppppsssss >Jim Mortellaro >Klatu to you too Hi Jim, My post is not a reply to yours, I just wanted to throw my two cents in the ring on the subject of being born again. When the God of all there is, walks in our shoes, speaks through our lips, sees through our eyes, and acts for the highest good of all, then we can use the words of Christ, I and my father are one. From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images : : Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:53:40 PST >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:07:52 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images > > >>From: "Stan Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Randle On the 'Roswell Memo' Images >>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:58:21 -0400 > > >Stan, old man - > >>Neither Dick Haines nor Russ had this quality information to >>work with. > >>Stan Friedman > >So what did your scanning of the negative reveal? Can you detect >anything on the negative that hasn't been discussed here? Can >you make out the words to a degree that eliminates the ambiguity >of the information? > >Seems to me that Russ Estes and Dick Haines were working with >the best material they had to offer and those results have been >posted. It also seems to me that some of the interpretations are >in direct conflict with other interpretations. If you have a >better interpretation, I know that I would like to hear what it >is. > >KRandle G'day KRandle, RPITs & List, As a 'minor' RPIT team member I can only say that all we want from the Roswell images are interpretations. As such, we don't care if any interpretations clash with each other. Why? Because we want differing inputs, opinions and interpretations so that at least we are providing a stimulus to solve what Bond sees as his Roswell Riddle. So what if we end up finding different results? There's no big deal in this. It happens everyday in every field of study i.e. different researchers looking at the same data, often even with identical tools, reach differing conclusions and science, in the long term, is the better for it. The knowledge base improves because of it. You could say that the 'genetic pool' of our knowledge is better for the 'genetic diversity' experiments that we all apply to our resourecs. For my part, I doubt whether we will get much of anything concretely worthwhile in the final consensus, if indeed there is one, because the raw data is so difficult to sort. But as for our energies they have been well tested, the ends are justifying the means, and the journey is well worth the taking even if members of the group get off at different stops. Regards, Leanne ];-)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:26:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:37:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:48:52 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars MARCI EDL Movie >Yes, this is once again an age of darkness for the masses. >Scientists, who promote themselves, care only about grants, and >project dollars...they could care less about the right to know >of the average citizen. All of them? 90 percent? 75 percent? Half? What nonsense. Scientists vary all over the map, just like other human beings. My father was a scientist, and though we disagreed vehemently about UFOs and other matters, I never doubted his passion to make science known to the public. In fact, scientists often complain that the public doesn't take them seriously enough, and above all doesn't try to learn how they think and what they do. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 23:12:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:31:32 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia >From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:50:08 EST >Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:03:13 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia Previously, Larry Hatch wrote: >>Do you catch my drift? A good Christian does not see or believe >>in UFOs. That is exactly the mindset I objected to on some >>earlier post. Greg's response: >Would you object to that mindset if it were a Buddhist, or >someone of Islamic persuasion? What is difficult to accept about >someone interpreting their own religion as precluding >extraterrestrial life? Again, I suggest you lack the ability to >see through the eyes of others. You fail to see the threat that >such a possibility represents to their beliefs. <snip> Hi, Greg! Perhaps I shouldn't stick my nose in on this, but I really agree with Larry. The problem, as I see it, isn't "the threat that such a possibility represents to their beliefs". After all, to determine such a thing to be a threat would mean some consideration of the possibilities and their ramifications. Hardline religions preclude even the POSSIBILITY of extraterrestrial life. No discussion, do debate; no matter what compelling proof might be at hand. I might be wrong, but I think that is what Larry objected to. >I happen to be a Christian, but I consider God quite capable of >creating an infinite variety of life in the universe. I place no >limits on his abilities, as others would seek to do. However, I >wouldn't insult someone with differing religious >interpretations. Or none, such as yourself. Why do you? Unless there was a previous post I missed, I don't feel Larry was being insulting to anyone, Greg. It is good to know that you aren't a hardliner; never thought you were... >Do you have some underlying beef with religion in general, or >Christianity in particular? Can't speak for Larry. But here's my two cents, even though you didn't ask me... Science and Religion have been at loggerheads for hundreds of years. While the Vatican originally rejected the notion of the Sun being the center of the solar system, they did embrace the calender. Why? So that they could get everyone to church on a regular schedule. Regular attendance meant regular funds and regulated control of the masses. Over the years, organized religions have taken on elements of science and technology as necessary to continue this control; be it television, radio, computer files or automated coin counters for the Sunday offerings, etc. In short, science is a threat to organized religion unless science has something it needs. The ramifications of total knowledge that was a possibility with science were all too familiar with the early Vatican. Better that early farmers should pray for a successful crop than to understand the seasons and weather and the soil. For once people found that they no longer had to depend on prayer but could, instead, control their own destiny, the church knew its time would soon be up. I often wonder how much further ahead the human race would be if the Vatican had not censured some of the greatest minds of the past and had let science and reason take their course.... Take care, Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 22:16:07 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:34:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:52:09 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Planet Discovered 35 Light Years From Earth >>Your "Hosts???" Would you care to elaborate on the meaning of this? >>Useful knowledge is power...otherwise, it is just taking up space. <G> >>>(Michael) >======================================> >Certainly, Mike, >It is my intellectual assentation to the likelihood that these >little bastards have had me over for an evening of fun and >frolicking - to which I refer. It is no longer important to >me that such suspicions remain secret. As I have stated on >other occasions (and quoting Frank Herbert), "Truth is the >foundation for all morality....which is profound thinking, when >(you) consider just how unstable the truth can be." >It is my hope that my recall will continue to grow, and I would >not have to resort to other methods of remembrance. >Ergo, my "hosts!" >Jim Grin...well, the next time they have you over, teach them how to play poker...you might recover some of the stuff they took from you. <g> Seriously, Jim. I have no problem with the people who make claims of having been abducted. I have a friend who lives about 60 miles who claims to have been visited by Grey aliens since he was a small child, yet didn't remember it until the abductions started again, after he had a sighting with several neighbours and an Air Force officer, back in the early 70's in Jackson, Tennessee. Up to that sighting, he was a "skeptic!" Believe it or not. Before I even met him, he had been suffering a total collapse of his exo-nervous system. He could not feel anything, and when tested by neurosugeons, they could not activate a reaction to their tests, including electorstimulation with needle probes. Yet, the strange thing is that he is/was still able to walk and do the things he desires to do... I even had a medical student from the University of Kentucky travel to meet him and give him a preliminary examination. When we parted company, the medical student, called Thomas, said he didn't understand why my friend wasn't paralyzed!!! Well, neither do I. If it wasn't for this "living evidence," I would have doubted much of his story. The only thing the Doctors could tell him was that at some point he had come in contact with some kind of "posion!" He reported being in a station wagon with five other people when this UFO hovered directly over the vehicle about 200 feet. He pulled himself up in the window to get a good look... not once, but twice, mind you, and said the heat from the underneath of this object was tremendous, so he slid back into the vehicle and like all the others around him, blacked out! He has had memories return to him over the years, so he can tell me a lot of what happened to him. He remembers seeing his abductors face to face... He remembers seeing information being fed to him at trememdous speed via what appeared to be a TV Monitor (computer???). I even brought in a local hypnotist to regress him and see what he could discover. He could not get my friend hypnotised. Later the hypnotist told me that his subjective consciousness was not allowing anyone to control him. So, we did not recover any knowledge from the sesson, but learned just how strong this man's control over his conscious mind was. Well, enough for now. If you wish to comment or add to this, please feel free to do so.... REgards, Mike ICQ#:7508455. (502) 683-6811
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:34:19 +0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:39:54 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:27:00 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO Sighting over Brisbane, Australia >Dear List readers: >Perhaps unfairly, I wish to take a snippet out of the good >message below, simply to make a small point. >>From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> >>To: UFO UpDates" <updates@globalserve.net>, >>Subject: UFO Sighting over Brisbane. >>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:05:01 +1000 >>The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia >>tkbnetw@fan.net.au >>************************************************************* >>Australian UFO Research Network Hot Line Number >> 1800 77 22 88 Free Call >>************************************************************* >>Sighting Report:UFOICQ (U/I) CE1 >>Strathpine, Brisbane Queensland 18th 11.1998 Time 3.35am >>Tony Tinnis >>Stated he is a Christian and does not believe in UFOs, but I was >>travelling down the Bruce HWY to the Strathpine exit going to >>work when I saw an object, Colour, gun metal gray and.. >Did you catch that? >Tony Tinnis "Is a Christian and doesn't believe in UFOs.." >As a child, I heard statements like that, they usually ran >something like : >" Well, I'm a Christian and I don't hold up gas stations." >- or - >"I'm a Christian and I don't need a Ouija board to know that >Christ is coming back." >Do you catch my drift? A good Christian does not see or believe >in UFOs. That is exactly the mindset I objected to on some >earlier post. >If 'Christians' can make such dumb statements, no doubt the >members of other well-known religions can as well. the opposite >may also happen at times! >Once in a while, and perhaps by chance, a religionist or >religious leader will make a sensible statement. Whenever that >happens, I believe that they should be applauded, at least a >little bit. >With the very best wishes >- Larry Hatch Dear Larry, Did you ever consider this person is perhaps a Christian and doesn't believe in UFOs, being mutually exclusive beliefs, rather than doesn't believe in UFOs _because_ he's a Christian? Cheers in Tolerance Sharon K
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 22:35:06 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:51:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] Dear List, As it so happens, I've had three very interesting sleep/dream experiences within the last month. In the first one, I awoke to find a silver-gray, sort of heart-shaped "alien head" hovering about three feet off my bedroom floor. This turned out to be one of those shiny (mylar?) helium balloons that kids get at birthday parties these days -- the very one indeed that my son Kevin had gotten the day before. It had lost enough lift so that it was only three feet or so off the floor, gently bobbing in the breeze of the overhead fan. (Yes, I know it's November, but we're still using ceiling fans at night here in Texas.) For a pulsating minute there I thought the aliens had finally come for me! The second episode occurred actually on Thanksgiving evening, while we were spending the night in our isolated cabin (shades of Streiber!) about 50 miles north of town. Pardon the cliche, but I haven't yet been able to put this one into words. It involved a falling sensation that turned into one of flying, a bodily "buzz" (or something like that), a magnified ringing in the ears, and a visual sensation of light. When I opened my eyes, the room was dark as it should have been. When I closed my eyes, everything went light again. "Light" here is hard to describe, as is the experience itself, which seems to have been an aborted, or very vestigial, lucid dream of sorts. This wasn't remembered the following morning, in other words; I was well aware of what was going on as it happened. I lost it a couple of times by being so surprised at the experience as it was happening, but made a conscious effort to relax (or accept it) on at least two occasions, as a result of which it continued. And then as suddenly as it had come it was gone and there was no getting it back. I might add that I managed two reality checks during the experience, which was unique to me, meaning that I've never experienced anything remotely like it that I remotely remember. I spent a good deal of time the next day trying to "analyze" it, mostly to no avail. Some major details were very prominent in my memory, but others were missing entirely, or only so vaguely formulated that they might as well have been. The third episode occurred between one and two above, and may actually offer some insight into some aspects of the abduction phenomenon. Unfortunately, the margins of this e-mail are too narrow for me to provide a full explication at this time.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Bill Weber <koran@cchat.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:16:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:58:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 23:06:21 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>Date: Sun, 29 Nov 98 13:13:03 PST >>>Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:43:19 +0000 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>>>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>>>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:18:15 -0500 >>>>>Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:21:18 +0000 >>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>>>Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >>>>>>From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> >>>Well, yes, maybe the aliens are only abducting white people. >>>Shouldn't the abductionists now be looking at this issue and >>>trying to discover the reason - it would seem a pretty vital >>>factor in abduction research. At least the psychosocial brigade >>>have got a suggestion to make - that abductions are a culturally >>>related phenomenon which is more a part of Anglo-Saxon and >>>Eurocentric culture than it is Afro-American. And despite the >>>sneers elsewhere on this list (Jerry, I mean you) I still refuse >>>to believe that there is *no* connection whatsoever between the >>>current abduction panic in the USA and concern over "alien" >>>immigration. >>It is indeed touching, John, that you "refuse to believe there >>is _no_ connection whatsoever between the current abduction >>panic [sic] in the USA and concern over `alien' immigration." I >>suppose it's much easier to make sweeping statements about what >>Americans think when you don't live here, as you don't. >>I'd sure like to know, for example, where you get the idea that >>there is a "panic" about abductions in my country. As a >>lifelong citizen, I can testify that the subject virtually never >>comes up in my daily interactions with other Americans, even >>those who know of my interest in UFOs. Some panic. >Personally I'd reckon a situation where thousands, maybe tens of >thousands of my fellow citizens appear to believe that they have >been abducted by creatures from another planet to be something >of a panic. But maybe I lack that typical sang-froid that we >English are supposed to enjoy. Do you share their belief Jerry? >Perhaps the fact that you're not panicking suggests that you >don't. >>It's this >>sort of loose and careless use of language that years ago drove >>me from advocacy of psychosocial hypotheses. >>In any event, unless you can produce clear and specific evidence >>(or even, for that matter, merely intriguing and suggestive >>evidence) that Americans everywhere deeply fear Hispanic >>immigration and therefore suffer vivid fantasies about abduction >>by decidedly non-Hispanic extraterrestrials, it simply does not >>matter what you believe or refuse to believe. >Read David Jacob's 'The Threat' again if you want to see the >language and imagery of racial fear used in reference to the >"Aliens". Mr. Rimmer, That's it? When asked repeatedly for a shred of evidence, that's what you cite? Does this approach even "merely intriguing and suggestive" evidence? No. It wouldn't pass muster as a potential theme for discussion in a freshman literature class - unless you wanted to bore the hell out of them. That kind of "evidence" wouldn't represent plausible evidence in any topic other than abduction, unfortunately. Excuse me...there was your misinformed view of American culture as well... No, we aren't all paniced over immigration, and we don't all wear cowboy hats, ride horses and call each other "partner" either. Honestly, I live in the most conservative area of the bible belt where the white male reigns supreme, and I hear nothing of the proposed, sweeping fear of immigration. Is there one American reading this List who does? If this is such a widespread concern, who and where are these people? Do they have a newsletter? You have been deliberately evasive when asked for any evidence, except for the aforementioned, and instead have chosen to repeat your conclusion ad nauseum. It would be funny if it wasn't so insulting, and it does a disservice to all those who have ever written a sincere, well thought out post here, (on any side of an issue). I echo the thoughts of Roger Evans. You really do owe an apology. In about three years of reading this List, I have never read a more poorly conceived or presented argument on _any_ topic. Worse, however, you do an injustice to a group of people you obviously know nothing of, nor care about. Common courtesy, if even for those you apparently consider lunatics, would be in order. This is where I quit reading this thread. It's a waste. Sincerely, Bill Weber
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 22:53:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:05:23 -0500 Subject: Re: >From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:03:01 EST >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: SETI Scientists Petition White House >I don't know if I'd characterize the majority of quotes you gave >as hostile, I think they simply reflect a lack of familiarity >with the subject of UFOs. Hi, Greg. It's a dismissive lack of familiarity. The SETI scientists aren't famliar with UFOs, and, most important, don't want to be, because they've already made up their minds that there's nothing there. I think you'd catch the tone better if I quoted really lengthy passages. Frank Drake, for instance, actually went out and investigated some UFO reports -- which only strengthened his scorn. Thanks for your kind words, by the way!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 23:46:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:14:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] >Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 23:06:21 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: Abduction of Blacks? [The Finalists] It's hardly worth rebutting something so silly, but..... >Personally I'd reckon a situation where thousands, maybe tens of >thousands of my fellow citizens appear to believe that they have >been abducted by creatures from another planet to be something >of a panic. But maybe I lack that typical sang-froid that we >English are supposed to enjoy. Do you share their belief Jerry? >Perhaps the fact that you're not panicking suggests that you >don't. A few thousand abductees out of a population of what......more than 250 million? Some panic! >Read David Jacob's 'The Threat' again if you want to see the >language and imagery of racial fear used in reference to the >"Aliens". Please cite chapter and verse, John. I've read The Threat carefully (even reviewed it for the MUFON Journal). I'm also vitally interested in racial problems (which I wrote about in my days as a pop-music journalist). I didn't notice any "language and imagery of racial fear" in The Threat, but maybe I missed something. Tell me where to look. Greg Sandow (Oh, and if one abduction book out of many really did have fearful racial images, would that prove anything?)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > Nov > Nov 30 Re: Censorship, UASR And Peter Gersten From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:21:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:24:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Censorship, UASR And Peter Gersten I keep a little dictionary on the desk here and looking at the definition of "censorship" I see the following: "To act as an official with the power to examine literature, mail, etc., and remove or prohibit anything considered objectionable." Folks, this is the very DEFINITION of the UASR list owners on the InterNet. Get used to it! That is, they say themselves, in response to this question ("Exactly which material will you censor?") the following: "Anything we want to, without explanation, warning or recourse." This, folks, is the very definiton of a totalitarian system. Get used to it. No wonder some folks are a little nonplussed by the high-handed actions of the USAR owners.