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   Mar

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Mar 1999

  Mar 1:

   Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12 - Kevin Randle [74]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - John Ratcliff [7]
   NBC Special Looks Awkwardly For 'Aliens Among Us' - Ignatius Graffeo
   [93]
   Ufoseek.org Site Is Down Due To A Move - Ignatius Graffeo [6]
   BWW Media Alert 19990228 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [157]
   Re: Who Is/Was Gen. W.B. Smith? - Stan Friedman [10]
   Re: [MC] ATTENTION - Special Bulletin (2) - Marc Bell [11]
   Re: Who Is/Was Gen. W.B. Smith? - Marc Bell [11]
   Re: [MC] ATTENTION - Special Bulletin (2) - Georgina Bruni [19]
   August 1947 Gallup Poll - Jan Aldrich [37]
   Re: Who Is/Was Gen. W.B. Smith? - Joseph Trainor [14]
   Re: John Ford - Leanne Martin [10]
   Re: Pending Lawsuit - Dilettoso vs. Korff - Leanne Martin [7]
   BAR 199902 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [104]
   Re: UFO-Landing Case With Picture In 1968 - Larry Hatch [5]
   Re: John Ford - Alfred Lehmberg [78]
   Re: Pending Lawsuit - Dilettoso vs. Korff - Ron Decker [68]
   UFO ROUNDUP Volume 4, Number 9 - Joseph Trainor [485]
   -=[For The Record]=- C-E: Ragsdale Story Video - Al Cornett [208]
   Nocturnal Lights - Jan-Hendrik Raabe [110]
   Bethlehem, Pennsylvania Sightings? - Molly Eckert [11]
   Re: John Ford - Michael Christol [10]
   Re: August 1947 Gallup Poll - David Rudiak [38]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - Michael Hodges [12]

  Mar 2:

   Tunguska Documentary? - Paul Williams [38]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin - Larry Hatch [6]
   The Millennium Report - March 1, 1999 - Paul Anderson - TMP /
   CPR-Canada [80]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - "John Ratcliff" [26]
   Meteosat-3 UFO Photo - UFO UpDates - Toronto [30]
   MJ-12 and Jaime Shandera - Jean-Luc Rivera [12]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - Josh Goldstein [2]
   Re: -=[For The Record]=- C-E: Ragsdale Story Video - Kevin Randle [15]
   'Mothman Prophecies' To Be A Movie - Mark Cashman [53]
   Re: MJ-12 and Jaime Shandera - James Bond Johnson [7]
   Re: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo - John Velez [6]
   Re: Tunguska Documentary? - Sue Kovios [222]
   'UFO Landing' Reported In Cheshire, UK - Tim Matthews [49]
   1998 Canadian UFO Survey - Press Notice - UFO UpDates - Toronto [59]
   Re: Tunguska Documentary? - Jim Deardorff [23]
   Re: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo - Fabrizio Monaco [20]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - Michael Hodges [8]

  Mar 3:

   Re: Zecharia Sitchin - Kathleen Andersen [25]
   Christian Science Monitor on NBC's 'Confirmation - Ed Stewart [33]
   Nick Pope's Weird World - Georgina Bruni [297]
   Re: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo - Mark Cashman [16]
   Re: Tunguska Documentary? - Sandy Gudaitis [8]
   Dorothy Kilgallen Autoposy - Tony Spurrier [4]
   Re: Peruvians Say "Aliens Enhanced Baths" - Ignatious Graffeo [72]
   Re: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo - Neil Morris [68]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - Brian Straight [11]
   Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy - UFO UpDates - Toronto [97]
   Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy - David Lynn [70]
   Re: Christian Science Monitor on NBC's - Jerome Clark [13]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin - Mark Cashman [66]
   Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy - Terry Blanton [4]
   Re: Remarkable 'Meteors' - Jan Aldrich [29]
   Re: Tunguska Documentary? - Bruce Maccabee [10]
   Re: Nick Pope's Weird World - David Clarke [3]
   Re: 'Down to Earth' - Marc Bell [30]
   Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy - Jerome Clark [7]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - Geri & Alfred Webre [24]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - Greg Sandow [10]
   Cheshire UFO Landing - More Sightings! - Tim Matthews [30]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - Brian Straight [7]
   UFO Security Classification Hearings? - Joachim Koch [14]
   Another Martian Life Announcement? - Brian Straight [7]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - Brian Cuthbertson [22]
   Peter Robbins on Jeff Rense's 'Sightings' - John Velez [7]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - Larry Hatch [11]

  Mar 4:

   Re: Peter Robbins on Jeff Rense's 'Sightings' - Jeff Rense [10]
   Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos - David Rudiak [313]
   Re: Remarkable 'Meteors' - Bruce Maccabee [31]
   Re: 'Confirmation' - Implant Analysis - Bill Weber [17]
   Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos - James Easton [47]
   Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy - Alfred & Geri Webre [34]
   Re: Trent and Rouen Images - James Easton [39]
   Re: The Verdict On The 'Implant' X-Rays - John Velez [103]
   Re: E-Mail Address For Ann Druffel - John Hayes [11]
   Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy - Tony Spurrier [28]
   Opening the Lost Tombs - Keith Woodard [35]
   'Tibor Nagy Moon Film' Inquiry - Mike Farrell [135]
   Dorothy Kilgallen and UFOs - Kenny Young [108]
   Re: Nick Pope's Weird World - Andy Roberts [39]
   Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos - Judith Dale [36]
   Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton [was: - Tony Spurrier [6]
   Re: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton [was: - Brian Straight [8]
   Re: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton [was: - Ed Stewart [13]
   UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine? - David Clarke [67]
   Re: 'Tibor Nagy Moon Film' Inquiry - Jean-Luc Rivera [21]
   Re: Nick Pope's Weird World - Sean Jones [12]
   Re: UFO Sighting Sites - Terry Blanton [44]
   Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy - Geri & Alfred Webre [38]
   Re: Nick Pope's Weird World - Rory Lushman [53]
   Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine? - Robert Moore [62]

  Mar 5:

   Re: Trent and Rouen Images - David Rudiak [115]
   Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos - GT McCoy [31]
   Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy - Scott Ribordy [5]
   Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy - Geri & Alfred Webre [75]
   Re: 'The Edge of Reality'? - Scott Carr [14]
   Swissair Liner's CE With 'UFO' Off NYC '97 - Ignatious Graffeo [81]
   Bell On King Tonight - BufoCalvin@aol.com [33]
   Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos - Bruce Maccabee [48]
   Re: Trent and Rouen Images - Bruce Maccabee [12]
   Re: Opening the Lost Tombs - Bruce Maccabee [5]
   Re: UFO Sighting Sites - Mark Cashman [72]
   'UFOs: 50 Years of Denial' - Jim Green [14]
   Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine? - David Clarke [58]
   BUFOSC Foil Hoaxers - Lynda Matthews [36]
   Re: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton - John Hayes [11]
   Re: Jeff Rense Weekly e-Newsletter 3-5-99 - Rense Reports [205]
   Re: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton - Max Burns [2]

  Mar 6:

   Re: Opening the Lost Tombs - Mark Cashman [9]
   -=[For The Record]=- Meier Case - Redux - Kim Burrafato [278]
   Re: More Helo Terrorism In Massachusetts - Greg St. Pierre [39]
   Hoagland Stealing Research Of Others? - Ron Bach [33]
   Re: Trent and Rouen Images - Bob Young [15]
   Roswell's 'Smoking Gun' Is Found? - Stig Agermose [74]
   Interview with Gordon Creighton of FSR - Kenny Young [76]
   Re: Swissair Liner's CE With 'UFO' Off NYC '97 - Gerhard Eickenhorst
   [8]
   Re: BUFOSC Foil Hoaxers - Rory Lushman [10]
   Re: Opening the Lost Tombs - Jens Hassler [17]
   -=[For The Record]=- Rasmussen's UFO/Ezekiel - Skywatch International
   Inc. [206]
   Re: Hoagland Stealing Research Of Others? - Dan Geib [10]
   Hoagland Charged With More Plagiarism & Fraud - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [207]
   Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine? - Larry Hatch [16]
   UFOs: 50 Years of Denial - Larry Hatch [43]
   Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic Sensitivity - Joseph Polanik
   [88]
   Re: Swissair Liner's CE With 'UFO' Off NYC '97 - Donald Ledger [244]
   Re: UFO Sighting Sites - Terry Blanton [35]
   Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' - Jerome Clark [41]
   Re: Interview with Gordon Creighton of FSR - Jerome Clark [4]
   Re: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic - Dennis Stacy [21]
   Re: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic - Dennis Stacy [21]
   Re: Here Be Dragons - Daev Walsh - Blather [241]
   Filer's Files #9 - George Filer [368]
   Re: Trent and Rouen Images - David Rudiak [32]
   Re: Hoagland Charged With More Plagiarism & Fraud - Royce J. Myers III
   [66]

  Mar 7:

   Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' - Alex Heard [22]
   Re: -=[For The Record]=- Meier Case - Redux - Jim Deardorff [38]
   Re: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic - Stephen MILES Lewis [92]
   Re: UFO Sighting Sites - Stephen MILES Lewis [36]
   Re: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic - Mark Cashman [17]
   F'risco MUFON's Debate Of The Year - Ted Oliphant III [40]
   Re: Opening the Lost Tombs - Bill Alford [7]
   BWW Media Alert 19990307 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [91]
   'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: Chris Rutkowski - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [14]
   Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' - Jim Mortellaro [33]
   Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' - Ron Bach [18]
   Re: UFO Sighting Sites - Terry Blanton [17]

  Mar 8:

   Stanley Kubrick Dead - Dennis Stacy [7]

  Mar 9:

   Helo Terrorism & John Ford - Michael Christol [52]
   Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets - Joachim Koch [108]
   Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' - Larry Hatch [9]
   MAPIT Course - Stephen Mera [144]
   Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Ignatious Graffeo [186]
   Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' and Heard for - Jim Mortellaro [18]
   Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' - Gary Alevy [11]
   Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' - Ron Bach [5]
   'Sensational' Anti-Matter Discovery - Stig Agermose [84]
   Re: Trent and Rouen Images - Bob Young [8]
   UK Hoax - New Disturbing Facts - "Lynda Matthews" [180]
   The Millennium Report - March 8, 1999 - Paul Anderson - TMP /
   CPR-Canada [80]
   Hoagland Suffers Heart Attack - UFO UpDates - Toronto [21]
   UFO ROUNDUP. Volume 4, Number 10 - Joseph Trainor [499]
   Murgia Interviews Astronaut Story Musgrave - Joe Murgia [193]
   The Year Of Mars As Probes Target Red Planet - Stig Agermose [65]
   Dundee Mountain Wisconsin? - Chad Kowalewski [10]

  Mar 10:

   Re: Murgia Interviews Astronaut Story Musgrave - Brian Straight [5]
   Re: Dundee Mountain Wisconsin? - Joel Henry [56]
   Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' - Jerome Clark [34]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - googong@interact.net.au [11]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - googong@interact.net.au [9]
   Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' - Jim Mortellaro [7]
   1999 Wine Taster on the Streets of NY - Jim Mortellaro [22]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP. Volume 4, Number 10 - Nick Balaskas [20]
   UFO and Suicide Cults? - Craig Evry [9]
   Re: [canufo] Mississauga Sighting February 25-99 - Nick Balaskas [69]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Skye Turell [31]
   Recent New Mexico Sightings - Christopher O'Brien [65]
   Re: Meier Case - Redux - Nick Balaskas [25]
   Latest On Hoagland - UFO UpDates - Toronto [4]
   -=[For The Record]=- Re: Bell is no Rense - Art Bell [5]
   Bell-Storm Warning - Robert A.M. Stephens [69]
   Re: Bell-Storm Warning - Art Bell [15]
   Re: Bell-Storm Warning - Robert A.M. Stephens [9]
   Re: Bell is no Rense - Ron Bach [23]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Upcoming Dr. Greer/CSETI Lectures and Workshops - Debbie Foch [31]
   Re: UK Hoax - New Disturbing Facts - Leanne Martin [7]
   'The Congressman Who Loved Science' - Gary Alevy [33]
   UFOs Over Las Pampas, Mexico - Guillermo Alarcon [6]
   Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets - Christophe Meessen [59]
   Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' - Greg Sandow [2]

  Mar 11:

   Re: UFO and Suicide Cults? - Sue Kovios [29]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #293 - Alfred Lehmberg [116]
   UFO Toll-Free Numbers? - Thiago Ticchetti [19]
   Re: Bell is no Rense - Tim Matthews [10]
   David Jacobs Website - Diane Lovett [9]
   CPR-Canada News - March 10, 1999 - Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada [70]
   New Italian & Peru Sightings - Notiziario UFO [23]
   New UK NW Sightings 03-99 - Tim Matthews [27]
   Bell Evades Truth - Richard J. Harvey [35]
   Re: Meier Case - Redux - Jim Deardorff [15]
   Unidentified Submerged Objects - Francisco Lopez [11]
   Earth Changes TV: Bell Slanders Rense and Others - Mitch Battros [41]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Bruce Maccabee [19]
   Phoenix Lights vs. the TR-3B Flying Triangle - Patrick Bailey [52]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Nick Balaskas [14]
   UK Hoax - Yet More Information - Tim Matthews [53]
   [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland? - Geri & Alfred Webre [32]
   Oliver's Castle Confession Video to be Aired on - Stig Agermose [64]
   Strange Marilyn Monroe CIA-Document - Kenny Young [21]
   Bell - Facts vs. Fraud and Confusion - Royce J. Myers III [91]
   Re: Bell is no Rense - John Velez [9]
   Re: David Jacobs Website - John Velez [15]
   Budd Hopkins On 'Sightings' Tonight - John Velez [8]
   Re: UFO and Suicide Cults? - Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research
   [33]
   Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial - Josh Goldstein [51]
   Phoenix Lights - 2 Years Later: Special Report - Ignatious Graffeo
   [104]
   Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets - Nick Balaskas [18]
   Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets - Stan Friedman [13]
   Re: UFO and Suicide Cults? - Nick Balaskas [11]
   Re: Bell Evades Truth - Michael Hodges [10]
   Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland? - Judith Dale [38]
   Firmage Re. Hoagland - Francisco Lopez [31]
   Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be - John Velez [26]
   Re: Bell is no Rense - Jim Mortellaro [21]
   Re: Meier Case - Redux - Nick Balaskas [42]

  Mar 12:

   Re: Phoenix Lights vs. the TR-3B Flying Triangle - Bruce Maccabee [9]
   Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be - Bob Young [18]
   Re: Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland? - Kathy Kasten [24]
   Re: Strange Days... Indeed - Very strange! - Jim Mortellaro [25]
   Re: Bell is no Rense - Skye Turell [36]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Skye Turell [8]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Henny van der
   Pluijm [51]
   Re: Meier Case - Redux - Jim Deardorff [35]
   Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland? - Judith Dale [28]
   Probe Sees New Face On Mars - Stig Agermose [46]
   Cyclic Period Correlates 'UFO Crash' Retrievals - Stig Agermose [21]
   Re: Meier Case - Redux - Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research [27]
   Re: Bell is no Rense - Royce J. Myers III [25]
   Re: UK Hoax - Yet More Information - Sharon Kardol [5]
   Re: 'Sensational' Anti-Matter Discovery - Larry Hatch [13]
   Re: Bell is no Rense - UFO UpDates - Toronto [12]
   Re: Dundee Mountain Wisconsin? - Larry Hatch [6]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin? - Larry Hatch [21]
   Re: Meier Case - Redux - Josh Goldstein [72]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Larry Hatch [15]
   Re: UK Hoax - Yet More Information - Greg St. Pierre [15]
   Phoenix Lights Chronology - Ignatious Graffeo [240]
   Web-Links - Roy Hale [25]
   Filer's Files #10 - George A. File [355]
   Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland? - Jim Mortellaro [44]
   Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be - Steven Kaeser [22]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - PeterBrookesmith
   Mendoza [24]

  Mar 13:

   NSA's UFO Documents - Stig Agermose [123]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Lawrie Williams
   [26]
   Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be - Josh Goldstein [52]
   Re: The Alleged 'Alien' Skull - Christine Sanderson [12]
   Re: Meier Case - Redux - Jim Deardorff [68]
   Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be - Mark Bean [69]
   NY Times Brings New Mars Photos - Stig Agermose [20]
   Re: Bell is no Rense - Royce J. Myers III [9]
   Re: Trent and Rouen Images - James Easton [43]
   Re: Trent and Rouen Images - James Easton [185]
   Re: New Discussion List - James Easton [32]
   *** Jeff Rense Weekly e-News *** 3-12-99 - Rense e-News [199]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #294 - Alfred Lehmberg [106]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin - Melanie Mecca [9]
   {100} Part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Lloyd Bayliss [444]
   {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Lloyd Bayliss [440]
   {100} Part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Lloyd Bayliss [447]
   {100} Part 4 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Lloyd Bayliss [468]
   Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be - Greg Sandow [18]
   Re: 3/13: This Week on the UFO Community - Diana Botsford [99]
   3/13: This Week on the UFO Community - Diana Botsford [99]
   UFOs Cause Blackout in 6 Brazilians States - Thiago Ticchetti [25]

  Mar 14:

   Laura Lee Shoe E-News - March 13, 1999 - Laura Lee [134]
   Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be - Serge Salvaille [7]
   Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets - Nemesis [31]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Michael Christol
   [44]
   Re: 3/13: This Week on the UFO Community - Mark Cashman [14]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Jsmortell@aol.com
   [44]
   Re: Trent and Rouen Images - Bruce Maccabee [21]
   Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be - John Velez [3]
   Re: The Alleged 'Alien' Skull - John Velez [16]
   Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be - Josh Goldstein [45]
   Otherworld Reality - UK Conference - Peter Brookesmith Mendoza [80]
   Re: 3/13: This Week On The UFO Community - Diana Botsford [21]
   Re: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'.. - Tim Matthews [62]
   'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: Peter Robbins - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [16]
   Re: UFOs Cause Blackout in 6 Brazilians States? - Christine Fernandes
   [11]
   Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets - Jim Mortellaro [48]
   Re: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'.. - Jim Mortellaro [43]
   Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets - Stan Friedman [25]

  Mar 15:

   UFO Footage from STS-61 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [125]
   Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be - John Rimmer [4]
   Alien/UFO Games - Leanne Martin [9]
   Re: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'.. - Judith Dale [44]
   Re: Zecharia Sitchin - Larry Hatch [14]
   Alien Skeleton - Hoax or History - update - Jimmie L. Holman [107]
   Search For E.T. Springs Forward - Stig Agermose [137]
   ET Hunters Return To Arecibo - Stig Agermose [40]
   Re: {100} Part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Bruce Maccabee [15]
   Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Bruce Maccabee [9]
   Center for [UFO] Physical Trace Research - Bob Soetebierb [24]
   Where Has All the Bromine Gone, Long Time - Gary Alevy [99]
   Answers sought on '97 reports of UFO over Phoenix, - Stig Agermose [55]
   Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be - Bob Shell [11]
   March 11 Ohio UFO - Police Report Acquired - Kenny Young [68]
   -=[For The Record]=- 'Alien' Skeleton In MUFON - Jan Aldrich [22]

  Mar 16:

   Re: Bell is no Rense - Steven Kaeser [9]
   March 14 Ohio UFO Sighting: Police Witness - Kenny Young [140]
   Re: Alien Skeleton - Hoax or History - update - Bob Shell [18]
   Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets - Christophe Meessen [39]
   Re: Where Has All the Bromine Gone, Long Time - Judith Dale [16]
   The Millennium Report - March 15, 1999 - Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada
   [76]
   Re: {100} Part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Tim Matthews [7]
   Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Tim Matthews [16]
   Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Jim Mortellaro [46]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 11 - Masinaigan [446]
   MJ-12 - From Tim Cooper's Typewriter To You - Jan Aldrich [35]
   Re: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference - Stephen Lewis [26]
   Re: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference - Sean Jones [12]
   Re: Where Has All the Bromine Gone, Long Time - Jim Deardorff [6]
   Re: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'.. - Michael Christol [49]
   Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' - Gary Alevy [57]
   Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed - Max Burns [132]
   SPI News From England February 1999 - Max Burns [147]
   Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' - Jerome Clark [10]
   CPR-Canada News - 2,000 Giant Forest Rings In - Paul Anderson - TMP /
   CPR-Canada [85]
   Re: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference - Mendoza [23]
   Skulls And More Skulls - Nick Balaskas [29]
   The '99 Southport Conference - Sean Jones [129]
   2,000 Giant Forest Rings In Canada - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [124]

  Mar 17:

   Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets - Sean Jones [24]
   Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Bruce Maccabee [20]
   Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - BRuce Maccabee [8]
   Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed - Rob Irving [7]
   The Real Gripple And The Real Jaime Gesundt - Jim Mortellaro [33]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Lawrie Williams
   [24]
   NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Stig Agermose [110]
   On 'Flying Triangle over Cardigan Bay' - Michael Christol [553]
   Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - David Rudiak [178]
   Gary Alevy & Apocalypse Pretty Soon - Alex Heard [13]
   Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Greg Sandow [30]

  Mar 18:

   Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed - Max Burns [13]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Mark Cashman [16]
   Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets - Stan Friedman [11]
   Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed - Roy Hale [16]
   Re: On 'Flying Triangle over Cardigan Bay' - Henny van der Pluijm [14]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Tim Matthews [46]
   Vast Winged Conspiracies Something to Worry About - Ignatious Graffeo
   [113]
   Re: Charges against Max Burns Dismissed - Andy Roberts [38]
   Re: The '99 Southport Conference - Jerome Clark [18]
   Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed - Terry Blanton [25]
   Re: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference - Sean Jones [23]
   Re: Mysterious Valley Report? - Bobby Dickey [6]
   Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Stan Friedman [12]
   Re: SPI News From England February 1999 - Peter Brookesmith Mendoza
   [53]
   Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Jerome Clark [15]
   1996 - Crowds Turn Out To Chase UFOs In SE Michigan - Stig Agermose
   [54]
   Woman Puts Up Money To Fund Et Alien Rescue Mission - Stig Agermose
   [38]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Bruce Maccabee [6]
   Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets - Joachim Koch [65]
   'UFO Awareness' - Jeremy Anderson [33]
   (eS) RealTime News ... - Dave Watanabe - exoScience [17]
   PRG Press Release - 3/18/99 - Stephen G. Bassett [64]
   CFS & The Alien Abduction Scenario? - Max Burns [308]
   Sighting Reports Australian 1999 UFO Outback Tour - Diane Harrison [48]
   The Australian Ufo Research Network - Public - Diane Harrison [23]
   Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Jim Mortellaro [22]
   The Truth About The XF5U-1 Flapjack - GT McCoy [30]

  Mar 19:

   BBC: Best Site For Moonbase Revealed - Steven J. Dunn [64]
   Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed - John Rimmer [28]
   Re: 'UFO Awareness' - John Rimmer [14]
   Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets - Joachim Koch [21]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Bruce Maccabee [27]
   Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed - Rory Lushman [51]
   Re: The '99 Southport Conference - Sean Jones [7]
   Re: Mysterious Valley Report? - Dan Syes [5]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - David Rudiak [232]
   County Sheriff: "UFO Sightings Are No Joke" - Kenny Young [61]
   Re: On 'Flying Triangle over Cardigan Bay' - Michael Christol [9]
   New Jersey Sighting & Mysterious Research Engineers - Stig Agermose
   [104]
   Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed - David Clarke [97]
   BWW Media Alert 19990319 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [103]
   Re: SPI News From England February 1999 - Roy Hale [32]
   Re: The '99 Southport Conference - Jerome Clark [7]
   Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - Jim Mortellaro [58]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Brian Cuthbertson [4]
   Re: Mysterious Valley Report? - Don Allen [2]
   Filer's Files #11-1999 - George Filer [376]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Royce J. Myers III [17]
   Re: 'UFO Awareness' - Jim Mortellaro [12]

  Mar 20:

   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Lynda Matthews [113]
   Re: Charges against Max Burns Dropped - Tim Matthews [75]
   Re: Woman Puts Up Money To Fund Et Alien Rescue - Diane Harrison [36]
   UFO Forum March and April News - Eldon Garlock [97]
   Re: New Jersey Sighting & Mysterious Research - James Easton [132]
   Re: SPI News From England February 1999 - Peter BrookesmithMendoza [76]
   Re: Meier Case - Redux - Nick Balaskas [23]
   Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion - Royce J. Myers III [23]
   *** Jeff Rense Weekly e-News *** 3-19-99 - Rense e-News [196]
   Re: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Greg St. Pierre [21]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - David Rudiak [40]
   SETI: Alien Search Diary - Stig Agermose [108]
   UK Peak District 'Realtime' UFO Skywatch live - David Clarke [46]

  Mar 21:

   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Larry Hatch [11]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #295 - Alfred Lehmberg [106]
   Photos Of Green Men At Wright Patterson AFB - Larry Hatch [18]
   Re: C5 Galaxy's Near-Miss In Alice Springs - Diane Harrison [63]
   Eight UFOs Over Las Vegas Valley - Stig Agermose [47]
   Mosley's 'Smear' on Gordon Novel (2-15-99) - Bob Soetebier [21]
   Firmage: Launch of ISSO - Joe Firmage [62]
   UFOSSI UFO Collision Video - Billy Dee [77]
   Kaufmann Claims Army Tracked UFOs Early As 1942 - Stig Agermose [43]
   On Ted Phillips' CPTR Web Site - Bob Soetebier [12]
   UFO(s) at Roswell Before July 1947? - Stig Agermose [231]
   New Official Don Schmitt Website - Stig Agermose [5]
   Re: Meier Case - Redux - Larry Hatch [4]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Peter Brookesmith
   Mendoza [45]
   Re: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion - Dan Geib [6]
   Re: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion - Skye Turell [12]
   'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: Budd Hopkins - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [15]
   Firmage & 'The Truth Files' On Rense's Sightings - Jeff Rense [26]
   Nick Redfern Responds to Nick Pope - Andy Roberts [116]
   W. Oz Alien 'Rescue' Mission - My Perspective... - Lawrie Williams
   [240]

  Mar 23:

   Re: Nick Redfern Responds to Nick Pope - Peter Brookesmith Mendoza [20]
   Re: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion - Kevin Randle [12]
   Re: New Official Don Schmitt Website - Kevin Randle [15]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - GT McCoy [27]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Kathleen Anderson [16]
   Rare UFO Books For Sale - Frank W Tobey [42]
   Re: - Diane Harrison [48]
   Australia Paving The way In UFO Unity - Diane Harrison [31]
   Re: Meier Case - Redux - Anthony Cynor [7]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - David Rudiak [241]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 12 - Joseph Trainor [507]
   Editorial Director Reveals Part In 'Alternative 3' - Stig Agermose
   [260]
   Another Fruit Cake Recipe From OZ Land? - Diane Harrison [48]
   APRO 'Religious Army' - Gone Underground? - Bob Soetebier [42]
   More on Gordon Novel & Black Forest Case - Bob Soetebier [87]
   SETI: Alien Hunters Back On Track - Stig Agermose [65]
   Re: Meier Case - Redux - Jim Deardorff [24]
   3 UFOs Taped Over Toledo, Ohio By News Crew? - Stig Agermose [20]
   Mass Sighting Over Massachusetts, 1966 - Stig Agermose [15]
   Detroit Sighting? - Stig Agermose [10]
   Research Release - Dr. Stefan T. Possony Materials - Wendy Connors [37]
   Australia's United Skywatch - Diane Harrison [27]
   Joint Statement On SOM-01-1 Manual - Steven Kaeser [112]
   UFOs More Likely Probing Our Bodies And Minds - Ignatius Graffeo [166]
   Re: Joint Statement On SOM-1-01 Manual - Steven Kaeser [7]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - John [6]
   US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France - Stig Agermose [77]
   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France - Joseph Trainor [16]
   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France - Gary Alevy [7]

  Mar 24:

   Re: 3 UFOs Taped Over Toledo, Ohio By News Crew? - Kenny Young [15]
   Re: Australian UFO Out Back Tour 1999 Sightings - Diane Harrison [44]
   Alice Springs UFO Video - Diane Harrison [28]
   A Terrible Surprise At The Prophets Conference -
   taller@diario1.sureste.com [219]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Larry Hatch [10]
   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France - Larry Hatch [13]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Jim Mortellaro [31]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Bruce Maccabee [2]
   Re: Latest Update From RPIT - Neil Morris [48]
   Re: Latest Update From RPIT - UFO UpDates - Toronto [52]
   Crop Circle Studies? - Sue Lawrence [6]
   Re: Australia Paving The way In UFO Unity - Chris Rutkowski [22]
   Re: Research Institute on Anomalous Phenomena - Henny van der Pluijm
   [115]
   Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement - Bill Hamilton [110]

  Mar 25:

   Re: Crop Circle Studies? - Debbie Foch [3]
   UFO Call Logging Methodology - Leanne Martin [31]
   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France - Alfred Lehmberg [21]
   Re: Latest Update From RPIT - Brad Sparks [95]
   Re: Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement - Stephen Chriss [23]
   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France - Joe Trainor [15]
   Re: Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement - Kevin Randle [101]
   Budd Hopkins Chat On AOL - Parascope [15]

  Mar 26:

   Michael Wolf's Samples - Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc [105]
   Re: Latest Update From RPIT - Neil Morris [58]
   Re: Latest Update From RPIT - UFO UpDates - Toronto [62]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Rick Goldsmith [16]
   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France - Leanne Martin [5]
   Gordon Novel's Possible 'Connections'? - Bob Soetebier [57]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples - Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research
   [15]
   Incomplete Article By Dr. Robert M. Wood - Jan-Hendrik Raabe [416]
   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France - Larry Hatch [18]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples - Kathleen Andersen [23]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples - Kathleen Andersen [23]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Kathleen Andersen [11]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples - Adriano Forgione - Notiziario UFO [11]
   Re: Incomplete Article By Dr. Robert M. Wood - Serge Salvaille [80]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Royce J. Myers III [7]
   Re: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Ted Oliphant III [14]
   Re: Latest Update From RPIT - Bob Shell [7]
   Re: Filer's Files #12 - George A. Filer [364]
   Re: Latest Update From RPIT - David Rudiak [48]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Rick Goldsmith [26]
   David Jacobs on Jeff Rense's 'Sightings' Tonight! - John Velez [10]

  Mar 27:

   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples - Nick Balaskas [58]
   MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating MJ-12 -
   stig.agermose@get2net.dk [28]
   *** Jeff Rense Weekly e-News *** 3-26-99 - Rense e-News [227]
   Crew Reunion: 'Philadelphia Experiment' Never - Stig Agermose [93]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Peter Brookesmith
   Mendoza [195]
   Port Charlotte, Florida Man Films Two UFOs - Moderator UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [162]
   Re: Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement - Nick Balaskas [40]
   Re: Filer's Files #12 - Sharon Kardol [8]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples - John Ratcliff [6]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - GT McCoy [16]

  Mar 28:

   MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating MJ-12 - Stig Agermose [43]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy - Brad Sparks [31]
   Re: 'Alien' Skeleton In MUFON Journal - Josh Goldstein [26]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #296 - Alfred Lehmberg [88]
   On Ohio Reports W/Military Helicopter Consideration - Kenny Young [360]
   Devil'S Triangle/Great Lakes Region? - Francisco Lopez [12]
   CPR-Canada News - March 27, 1999 - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada
   [57]
   Bullwinkle and Arnold, Conspiracy or Coincidence? - Jim Mortellaro [37]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - John Rimmer [11]
   Re: Latest Update From RPIT - Neil Morris [34]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - James Easton [169]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples - Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research
   [9]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Kevin Randle [21]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - John Rimmer [4]
   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France - James Bond Johnson [2]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy - Michael Christol [12]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Jim Mortellaro [8]
   Re: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest Update - Neil Morris [79]
   Re: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest Update - Neil Morris [14]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Jean-Luc Rivera [7]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples - Kathleen Andersen [26]
   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France - Joaquim Fernandes [34]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - Kathleen Andersen [30]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - John Rimmer [12]
   Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State - John Rimmer [12]
   Accident At Gesundt's UFO Research - Group Needs - Jim Mortellaro [47]
   'Strange Days... Indeed' Tonight: Dr. David Jacobs - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [16]





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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                          Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:07:56 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 13:56:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12
>Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 20:59:57 -0400


>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:23:42 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12

>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12
>>>Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:11:05 -0400

>>>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
>>>>Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:24:29 EST
>>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>>Subject: Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12

>>>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>>>Subject: Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12
>>>>>Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:32:45 -0400

>>>>>I certainly appreciate the calm tone of Kevin's posting.


>>>>the questioned document examiner that you contacted?

>>>Black  hasn't published it yet. But certainly the document
>>>examiner that I talked to did not tell  me that he had done a
>>>report of any kind. He did express an opinion. Is this published
>>>somewhere? Do you have a copy?

>>He has offered a number of oral reports. He told you
>>specifically what he had found and suggested that you "wash your
>>hands of the whole thing." Why do you need a written report when
>>you already have all the relevant information from the man,
>>including his professional opinion that the MJ-12 documents,
>including the EBD and the Truman memo are fake?

>I consider it an offhand opinion not a carefully documented
>professional opinion

Which is a wonderful excuse for dismissing it but not really
true. He is quite specific about how he came to his opinion and
why he believes it to be an accurate reflection of the validity
of the EBD and the Truman Memo. It was anything but an offhand
opinion. It was a carefully thought out and researched answer
and is completely negative in its tone.

>>>>>Nobody seems to be mentioning that it was Tim Good in the UK
>>>>>that first published the EBD.

>>>>This could be because Barry Greenwood established that Good had
>>>received his copies of the EBD from a "CIA" source who turned
>>>>out to be Moore. Greenwood did a devastating expose of how he
>>>>was able to prove that that Good's copy came from Moore. I even
>>>>talked about it in A History of UFO Crashes. (Hey, everyone else
>>>>is mentioning their books, so I thought I would join in.)

>>>My recollection is that Good's copy was shown not to be from
>>>Moore. As a matter of fact it makes little sense that it would
>>>have since Good published before Moore published portions of a
>>>few pages. I might add that the copies I have distributed have
>>>all been clean copies. I even proovided FUFOR with their first
>>>clean copy.

>>All of this is irrelevant. Barry Greenwood established through
>>the physical evidence that Moore is the source of Good's copy of
>>the MJ-12 documents. Who published what when is not important
>>here.

>I do not have any reason to believe that Barry is correct having
>talked at length with Tim about this.

Except Good seems to accept it and the physical evidence on the
documents establish it reasonably. Greenwood established that
copier marks, visible on the Moore version also appear on the
Good version. Since the marks "float," it means that the marks
are an artifact of the copying process that do not appear on the
original. Fairly convincing evidence, I'd say.

<snip>

>>>Obviously we have different views of the history of this
>>>discussion. Unfortunately I recall that  in History of UFO
>>>Crashes on page 1, it was claimed that your article in the
>>>UFOEncyclopedia had dismissed Roswell.. However, Roswell is
>>>nowhere mentioned in that Encyclopedia'

>>And this is relevant how? It does not say that and you know
>>it. It says that I had dismissed all the reports of crashed
>>saucersthat I had heard when I wrote the entry of them for
>>the UFO Encyclopedia in 1979. In A History of UFO Crashes, I
>>do say thatthe road was littered with crashed saucer tales
>>and included Roswell in that to make a point.

>Sorry, but the facts are different from the claim.

>Here is the quote  from page 1 "A History of UFO Crashes"
>AVON, 1995 $5.50. US  $7.50 Canada


>"In fact in l980 I provided Ron Story with the segment on the
>hidden alien bodies and crashed saucers for  "The UFO
>Encyclopedia". In it I made it clear that none of the reports of
>crashed saucers had ever withstood objective investigation.
>Theroad was strewn with the remains of those stories, starting
>withthe Aztec, New Mexico, case and working its way to the
>Spitzbergen report and the events near Roswell, New Mexico"...


>Those are the words as printed. Clearly Kevin was stating that
>he included Roswell in his UFO Encyclopedia  segment. However,
>there is no mention of Roswell in his segment or anywhere else
>in the Encyclopedia... presumably because the articles were
>written before there was any noise about Roswell. I cannot, of
>course, claim to know what was in Kevin's mind when this was
>written. I can only know what he wrote. I think it is
>understandable why I am skeptical about some of the claims made
>in the above postings.

>Stan Friedman

Anyone reading those remarks realize that it simply does not say
that I wrote about the Roswell case in the UFO Encyclopedia. It
does say that I had written that segment and that in that
segment I mentioned various crashed saucer scenarios. It says
that in the article made it clear that none of the crashed
saucer stories has withstood investigation. But it does not say
that I mentioned Roswell in the article in the UFO Encyclopedia.
Stan knows this because we discussed it at length a couple of
years ago. In fact, it was during that conversation that Stan
made the false claim that I had been an English major in
college.

But rather than argue over what some might consider a poorly
worded statement that was irrelevant to the discussion, let's
take a look at a point in which Stan INSERTED a word into the
middle of an interview that I had conducted with Bill Brazel
(since we're going to be bringing irrelevant information into
the discussion).

When Don Schmitt and I interviewed Bill Brazel in 1989, he said,
about the military team who came to visit him, "Now he had a
sergeant with him that was real nice." However, in quoting that
in Crash at Corona, with neither credit nor attribution, it was
changed to "Now he had a [black] sergeant with him that was real
nice."

So, we have Stan rejecting the questioned document examiner who
dismissed the EBD and the Truman memo as hoaxes because there is
no "formal" written report. He does not acknowledge these
negative results in any of his various works, even though Stan
was the man who brought the questioned document examiner into
the equation by asking him to review the material. When the data
broke against him, Stan refused to mention it and when he
finally does, it is to dismiss it.

He then suggests that I claimed to have mentioned Roswell in the
UFO Encyclopedia when it says no such thing as anyone who can
read English can see. It is a poorly constructed sentence? Sure.
But then, we all write poorly constructed sentences once in a
while.

Finally, we have Stan inserting a word into an interview that I
recorded on audio tape and supplied to Stan as he wrote his own
book on the Roswell case. He doesn't bother to mention where he
got the interview, that he wasn't present during the interview,
and then alters it so that it will help to corroborate the
failing testimony of Gerald Anderson. He justifies this by
claiming that Don Berliner heard Brazel saying the sergeant was
black, but, since I was present during that interview and I
didn't hear, and, since Brazel has denied that he ever said it,
it means Stan just tossed the word in for no justifiable reason.

Now, we can let this fight get real dirty, and we will, in the
process, irritate all those on the List who feel that we "should
all just get along." However, I didn't introduce the irrelevant
into a discussion of MJ-12. I merely pointed out a few facts
that were in conflict. I thought it important that we all know
that, at least, one questioned document expert said the EBD and
Truman memo were a hoax.

For those of you who would like more about this, the man has
said he will prepare a written report, but his fee is something
like $2000. I have talked to him, Stan has talked to him, a
number of others have talked to him, and he tells us all that he
will provide the documentation, but we have to pay his fee. That
is the only reason that there is not the written report that
Stan demands, and he knows that is the reason.

KRandle






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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: John Ratcliff <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:15:58 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:00:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:02:57 -0800
>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Zecharia Sitchin?


Josh queried:

>I'd like to ask a question I've wondered for many years
>yet never got around to seriously investigating. What do
>other Sumerian scholars (noted and degreed) feel
>regarding Zecheriah Sitchin's interpretations of the
>Sumerian tablets?


Josh,

They think what any rational person would think, that Sitchin's
claims are without merit, represent the worst example of
'extrapolating wildly beyond a hopelessly limited dataset', and
don't merit any response.

John






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   Mar > Mar 1

              NBC Special Looks Awkwardly For 'Aliens Among Us'

From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:26:14 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:04:17 -0500
Subject: NBC Special Looks Awkwardly For 'Aliens Among Us'


NBC special looks awkwardly for "Aliens Among Us"

Confirmation: The Hard Evidence of Aliens Among Us? (special,
Wed. (17), 8-10 p.m., NBC)

By David Kronke

HOLLYWOOD (Variety) - One wouldn't think that a TV show
containing the words "Confirmation" and "Hard Evidence" in its
title would require a question mark as well.

In the case of the lurid and sometimes entertainingly ludicrous
"Confirmation: The Hard Evidence of Aliens Among Us?," the
punctuation is highly appropriate (though if this were on Fox,
you can bet that namby-pamby question mark would be outta'
there).

Eliminate the copious padding from this special -- NBC
assiduously avoids the words "documentary" or "report" in its
press materials -- and some material is mildly eerie or
eyebrow-raising.

But two hours of this is overkill, particularly when one gets
the distinct feeling that few involved are investing much
personal commitment into this project.

Narrated by Robert Davi (who wanders a cheesy set made to look
like a sparsely treed forest at night) with his trademark grave
basso profundo, "Confirmation" fails to make a terribly
convincing case for some of its more extravagant suggestions
--namely, that aliens may be planning to force us to mate with
them to advance their race.

In dire tones, Davi queries, "Are thousands being kidnapped by
an alien species and being subjected to horrifying experiments?"

What follows is a fairly typical smorgasbord of archival
footage, talking-head shots of self-proclaimed abductees and
so-called experts, and re-enactments of UFO sightings and aliens
pawing victims that wouldn't pass muster on an episode of "The
X-Files."

Some of the experts are referred to, vaguely, as an
"investigative columnist" or the editor of "CNI News," with no
explanation of what CNI is (it's a UFO publication and Web site;
"CNI" stands for Contact with Nonhuman Intelligence). "It is
potentially very strong evidence of something curious," one
expert observes.

Footage of a UFO hovering over a Mexican city is roundly
debunked -- which doesn't prevent the producers from showing it
repeatedly.

The same footage is routinely shown ad nauseum: A man declaring,
"A probe was put up my right nostril," while more or less
demonstrating, is included three times.

A rehash of the Roswell incident, the UFOlogist's Holy Grail,
adds nothing new, and Whitley Strieber, author of the bestseller
"Communion" (and exec producer of this special, though that's
not noted in his segments), threatens to usurp Davi's role when
he trots out and interviews abductees.

Make what you will of Strieber's eyewitnesses, but he milks them
for all the drama he can muster.

A segment on a Northridge teenager who has created a Web site
dedicated to often-censored UFO-related documents relates --
very chillingly, of course -- that the government has been
reticent to send the young man the material he routinely
requests under the Freedom of Information Act.

He and the producers find something terribly sinister about
that. Isn't it possible, though, that lazy, underpaid government
grunts just don't feel like photocopying, collating and mailing
off the thousands of pages of documents he requests?

A segment in which a number of Ohio policemen recount a close
encounter, accompanied by the audio dispatches of that fateful
night, is undone by a clumsy re-enactment.

Footage of some curious aerial phenomena is countered, in a
quest for fairness, by naysayers who generally provide plausible
explanations for what we're shown. So much for "confirmation" or
"hard evidence."

"If any of this is true," Davi smolders, "what does it mean?"
More pressing -- if it isn't, what does it mean that NBC would
devote two hours of prime-time sweeps to material better suited
to an obscure cable channel?

Director-co-exec producer-writer Starling Price's resume
includes comedy bits from "Later With Greg Kinnear" (in addition
to work on "reality" shows).

The fashion in which flimsy evidence is given near-apocalyptic
overtones here suggests Price may still believe he's doing
comedy work.

Host: Robert Davi. Featuring: Whitley Strieber.

Filmed in Los Angeles and elsewhere by NBC Studios Prods.
Executive producers, Mark Wolper and Whitley Strieber;
writer/director/co-executive producer, Starling Price;
supervising producer and additional writing, Tim Rogan; story
producer and additional writing, Stephen J. Abramson; senior
segment producer, Hilary Roberts; segment producers, Eileen King
and Chip Selby; segment directors, Starling Price, Ted Saad,
Eric Taylor, David Vassar and Michael T. Whalen; editors, David
Harris and David Kekoolani; music, Fred Rapoport and Nick
Phoenix; camera, Kevin O'Brien, K. James Peterson and Robert
Eberlein.

Reuters/Variety
____________________________________

Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News:
UFOSEEK... For the Source! http://www.ufoseek.org






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                   Ufoseek.org Site Is Down Due To A Move

From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:53:59 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:07:13 -0500
Subject: Ufoseek.org Site Is Down Due To A Move


Please make note that the link to www.ufoseek.org may be down
for the next few days while we set up our domain name on a new
service provider. In the meantime, go to our mirror site at:

http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/

Ignatius
Ufoseek.Org






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   Mar > Mar 1

                          BWW Media Alert 19990228

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:58:24 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:07:48 -0500
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19990228

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF<A HREFALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to=
 reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that=
 attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good=
 etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you=
 forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

February 28, 1999

Buy tape, if you are a UFO buff!  It's time for THE LEARNING CHANNEL'S ALIEN
INVASION WEEK.  Lots of premieres this week.  Unfortunately, I can't be sure=
 I
have everything pinned down=85in an otherwise outstanding site, I've always
found a glitch trying to get to the next month on THE LEARNING CHANNEL'S=
 site.
For a nice description of some of the shows, go to
<A HREF=3D"http://www.discovery.com/sched/domestic/maps/990228tlc.html">
http://www.discovery.com/sched/domestic/maps/990228tlc.html<;/A> .

It is also so nice to be able to bring you listings for Jeff Rense's=
 SIGHTINGS
ON THE RADIO!  You can subscribe to a new free e-mail list about the show at
jocelyn@dewittec.net.  I did not pull the listings from there: I've been so
busy this week, with the Odyssey of the Mind tournament, writing and=
 teaching
a three day class on Visual Basic, and doing a custom Access/Excel hybrid
class, I haven't had time to contact the newsletter publisher.

On to the listings: Times are generally Pacific.

RADIO

SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO
Quite simply, this is my favorite show on which to appear.  Jeff is well-
versed on the topics, but likes to let the guests speak.  You can hear Real
Audio of the show, and there are archives as well.  Go to
<A HREF=3D"http://www.sightings.com/">http://www.sightings.com/<;/A> for more
information.  The show is on at 7:00 PM Pacific Monday through Saturday, and
8:00 PM Pacific on Sunday.  You can hear it anywhere through your computer.

Sunday, February 28, 8:00 pm: Tim Mathews on UFOs built by humans
Tuesday, March 2, 7:00 PM, Ingo Swann=85don't miss this one, or listen to it=
 in
the archives later.  Without Ingo, the government Remote Viewing research
wouldn't have existed
Wednesday, March 3, 7:00 PM, Michael Lindemann has his regular feature: a=
 UFO
update.  His recent appearance on CONFIRMATION was dignified, as usual. =
 Also,
William Buhlman on out-of-body experiences
Thursday, March 4, 7:00 PM, Peter Robbins on hot UFO information
Friday, March 5, 7:00 PM, Zeta Talk (channeling aliens, I think)
Saturday, March 6, 7:00 PM, David John Oates, who is the Reverse Speech guy

TELEVISION

A&E
Sunday, February 28, 7:00 PM, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: SEARCH=
 FOR
THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMAN

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL

Sunday, February 28, 12:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S WORLD OF STRANGE POWERS:
FAIRIES, PHANTOMS AND FANTASTIC PHOTOGRAPHS (the Cottingley fairy
photographs?)
Thursday, March 4, 10:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: MONSTERS OF THE DEEP
Friday, March 5, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: MONSTERS OF THE DEEP
Saturday, March 6, 1:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: MONSTERS OF THE DEEP
Next Sunday, March 7, 12:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE,
MYSTERIES OF THE MAYA
Next Thursday, March 11, 10:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT CREATURES (birds
and lizards)
Next Thursday, March 12, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT CREATURES (birds=
 and
lizards)

THE HISTORY CHANNEL

Monday, March 1, 5:00 PM, THE MYSTERIES OF AMELIA EARHART (alien abduction=
 is
suggested)
Monday, March 1, 9:00 PM, THE MYSTERIES OF AMEILA EARHART (alien abduction=
 is
suggested)
Tuesday, March 2, 1:00 AM, THE MYSTERIES OF AMELIA EARHART (alien abduction=
 is
suggested)

THE LEARNING CHANNEL

Sunday, February 28, 8:00 PM, UFOS UNCOVERED: OUT OF THIS WORLD (includes=
 UFOs
in space)
Sunday, February 28, 9:00 PM, UFOS UNCOVERED: DARK SECRETS (includes NORAD=
 and
Area 51)
Sunday, February 28, 10:00 PM, UFOS UNCOVERED: ARE ALIENS HERE? (includes
crashes)
Sunday, February 28, 11:00 PM, UFOS UNCOVERED: OUT OF THIS WORLD (includes
UFOs in space)
Monday, March 1, 12:00 AM, UFOS UNCOVERED: DARK SECRETS (includes NORAD and
Area 51)
Monday, March 1, 1:00 AM, UFOS UNCOVERED: ARE ALIENS HERE? (includes=
 crashes)
Monday, March 1, 9:00 PM, ET ENCOUNTER (this looks to be a very interesting
one, focussing on Varginha and the Chupacabras=85North American premiere)
Monday, March 1, 10:00 PM, THE UNINVITED (includes Whitley Strieber)
Tuesday, March 2, 12:00 AM, ET ENCOUNTER
Tuesday, March 2, 1:00 AM, THE UNINVITED (includes Whitley Strieber)
Tuesday, March 2, 9:00 PM, SEARCHING FOR UFOS (abduction=85North American
premiere)
Wednesday, March 3, 12:00 AM, SEARCHING FOR UFOS:
Wednesday, March 3, 9:00 PM, UFOS: ABOVE AND BEYOND (hosted by James Doohan)
Thursday, March 4, 12:00 AM, UFOS: ABOVE AND BEYOND (hosted by James Doohan)
Thursday, March 4, 9:00 PM, UFOS: FIFTY YEARS OF DENIALS (North American
premiere)
Thursday, March 4, 10:00 PM, UFOS AND OTHER CLOSE ENCOUNTERS
Friday, March 5, 1:00 AM, UFOS AND OTHER CLOSE ENCOUNTERS
Friday, March 5, 9:00 PM, UFOS: STORIES OF ABDUCTION
Saturday, March 6, 5:00 PM, UFOS UNCOVERED: OUT OF THIS WORLD (includes UFOs
in space)
Saturday, March 6, 6:00 PM, UFOS UNCOVERED: DARK SECRETS (includes NORAD and
Area 51)
Saturday, March 6, 7:00 PM, UFOS UNCOVERED: ARE ALIENS HERE? (includes
crashes)
Saturday, March 6, 9:00 PM, ALIEN SECRETS: AREA 51
Next Sunday, March 7, 12:00 AM, ALIEN SECRETS: AREA 51
Next Sunday, March 7, 1:00 PM, UFOS: ABOVE AND BEYOND (hosted by James=
 Doohan)
Next Sunday, March 7, 2:00 PM, SEARCHING FOR UFOS
Next Sunday, March 7, 4:00 PM, THE UNINVITED (includes Whitley Strieber)
Next Sunday, March 7, 11:00 PM, CURSE OF TUTANKHAMEN

THE SCIENCE CHANNEL

The new schedule (since December 28, 1998) is weird programming for an hour
each at 3:00 AM, 11:00 AM,and 7:00 PM. Alternating shows are: INTO THE=
 UNKNOWN
and ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE. They also run a Roswell show now
every other week (it's probably the same show every time) at 4:00 AM and=
 noon
on Sundays.

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL

Tuesday, March 2, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: Episode #4039 (Declassified=
 information
on the Socorro UFO landing report; shamans)
Wednesday, March 3, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: Episode #4040 (UFO/pilot
disapperance=85Valentich?)
Thursday, March 4, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS, Episode #4041 (abduction;=
 poltergeist)
Friday, March 5, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS, Episode #4042 (past lives; psychic
spying; 1962 UFO)
Next Tuesday, March 9, 11:00 AM, Episode #4042 (Mantell UFO chase and death;
psychic detectives; ghost)
Next Wednesday, March 10, 11:00 AM, Episode #4043 (Peruvian UFOs; UFOs and
religion; psychic; Martian canals)
Next Thursday, March 11, 11:00 AM, Episode #4044 (Brazilian UFOs; Ohio
bigfoot; feng shui)
Next Friday, March 12, 11:00 AM, Episode #4045 (angels vs. ghosts; radio=
 from
Mars)
___________________________

___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =EErything____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if
there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is=
 Tuesday, the week before.
_____________________________





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                       Re: Who Is/Was Gen. W.B. Smith?

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:39:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:12:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Who Is/Was Gen. W.B. Smith?


>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:12:46 -0500
>From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Who Is/Was Gen. W.B. Smith?

>Got lucky and came across Co. Philip J. Corso's book, The Day
>After Roswell, at a remainders sale in a local mall for only
>about one-fifth the original cost of the hardback!  And WOW,
>this is almost scary stuff!

>Rumours, wild guesses, even intelligent researched guesses had
>the advantage that you could either believe them or not, or just
>hold them in mind until enough evidence comes along to indicate
>the most appropriate perception.

>What Corso is talking about here, well, a lot of it is the old
>rumours etc that I really wasn't sure I ever wanted to know
>might be true.  And I am not even half way through the book!
>The mystery is gone!

>He offers the info in a context that those of us who were a bit
>too young, or among the unborn, back in the fifties that we
>could never have known, but he was in the center of the
>paranoia, and in a position to know about the st

>ate of mind of the American people and its armed forces at that
>time.  Within the context he offers (accurate from my own
>knowledge of history of the period, since I was still  a glint
>in dad's eye in 1947), a lot of bits and pieces of information
>(rumour or disinformation we have all wondered at times) make
>sense which without that context, were pretty much unbelievable.

>Now, a question:

>On page 74, Corso lists the first members of Pres Truman's
>'working group'.  One of the people listed is Secretary of
>Defense, James Forrestal.

>On page 82, Corso says Forrestal committed suicide two years
>into the Truman administration, and was replaced in this group
>by a General W.B. Smith.

>Question: Who was General W.B. Smith? Anyone know where he came
>from or anything about his background? What do W. and B. stand
>for? And what eventually happened to him?  Where is he now?

>I have a feeling Corso has revealed something he doesn't realize
>he has revealed. But I could be all wrong. Do let me know if
>anyone has any info on this Smith guy?

>Lesley
>manitou@fox.nstn.ca

>--
>Lesley Cluff, Ontario, Canada    manitou@fox.nstn.ca


Lesley, surely they have libraries there?

Smith was the 4th Director of Central Intelligence. The names I
suspect come from my book TOP SECRET/MAJIC or the several other
books that present The Eisenhower Briefing Document.

Corso's co-author did much of the writing. The book is loaded
with mistakes.. and no index , references, substantiation. Corso
enlarged his background. Be wary, to say the least. Be happy you
didn't pay full price. Corso died July 15, l998. Strom Thurmond
withdrew his foreword.....

Stan Friedman - on my way to Roswell.






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                  Re: [MC] ATTENTION - Special Bulletin (2)

From: Marc Bell <MARC@wufog.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:40:31 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:15:20 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC] ATTENTION - Special Bulletin (2)


>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:16:20 -0800 (PST)
>From: Jeff Westover <frequentflier66@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [MC] ATTENTION - Special Bulletin (2)

>>From: Geri & Alfred Webre <Ecotoday@aol.com>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:55:52 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: [MC] ATTENTION - Special Bulletin (2)

>>The following was posted on Wes Thomas" MindControl discussion
>>list.  We have no idea about its original provenance.

>>Geri & Alfred Webre
>>Vancouver BC

>>Subj: [MC] ATTENTION - Special Bulletin (2)
>>Date: 99-02-26 05:14:13 EST
>>From: gwilson_spur@lineone.net (Graham M. Wilson)
>>To:   MINDCONTROL-L@mail.sonic.net (MC Mailing List)

>>Notes from an insider ('The Voice')
>>"The UFO/Military Abduction/Genetic/Mind Control/Censorship"

>>I am an ex-employee (security operative) from a black-budget top
>>secret underground R & D facility situated not far from London
>>(England).  For the past 5 years I have contravened the Official
>>Secrets Act by publishing my documents detailing the base, the
>>projects, personnel involved, locations, code names, etc., but
>>due to pressure brought to bear on me not only by the NSA and
>>MI5, but from 'friendly fire', the so called 'UFO Elite', my
>>disclosures, my documents have been brought to a standstill and
>>I have been effectively silenced.

>Well...you did get this posted on UFO UpDates...that has to
>count for something.

>>As mentioned above I was a security operative at the facility, I
>>am also a victim of the main project at the base run by the NSA,
>>mind control, genetic experimentation and military UFO
>>abductions.  I have endured endless threats, intimidation and
>>harassment from various military and intelligence agencies over
>>time.

>>The loss of the equipment I used to publish my documents,
>>coupled with very severe financial problems and then the sudden
>>death of my father, on top of the pressures from agencies and
>>engineered apathy by the UFO community have resulted in my not
>>being in a position to get the vital info and data into the
>>public domain.

>You could post them here, on UFO UpDates...FOR FREE!

Hi

We'll gladly review the data and include it on our next CD-ROM
(non-profit making project) if you wish to have your research in
the public domain? We've also had our fair share of 'security
service' problems over the years, so you don't have to worry
about that side of the issue.

We are very interested, as the claims you make refer to the
London area, with special ref: to military 'ufo' abductions.

Best Wishes,

Marc

(Woolwich UFO Research Group)





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                       Re: Who Is/Was Gen. W.B. Smith?

From: Marc Bell <MARC@wufog.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:54:42 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:17:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Who Is/Was Gen. W.B. Smith?


>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:12:46 -0500
>From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Who Is/Was Gen. W.B. Smith?

Hi Lesley,

Gen. W.B. Smith was General Walter Bedell Smith. He was
Eisenhower's World War II chief of staff I also believe. But at
the time this document was allegedly written, was serving as
director of the CIA.

I'm not sure what became of him, but I also believe he was
involved with a 1952 CIA memorandum on the psychological warfare
implications of UFOs. Maybe someone else can shed some light on
this?

All the best,

Marc (WUFORG)







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                  Re: [MC] ATTENTION - Special Bulletin (2)

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:21:52 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:19:54 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC] ATTENTION - Special Bulletin (2)


>From: Geri & Alfred Webre <Ecotoday@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:55:52 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: [MC] ATTENTION - Special Bulletin (2)

Re: Graham M.Wilson

A couple of years ago Graham M. Wilson used to post on the UFO
Forum CompuServe. He claimed he was with the Society for
Paranormal & UFO Research. It is the first I have heard that he
was with a black project programme.

Some of Graham's material is mind-blowing and if true It's no
wonder he's been threatened, but I have not personally
researched his claims so I cannot offer an opinion.

Georgina Bruni


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Editor in chief of Hot Gossip UK magazine
E-mail: georgina@easynet.co.uk
E-mail: 104707.336@compuserve.com
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
HOT GOSSIP UK
www.hotgossip.co.uk
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COMMENT FOR TODAY
Check out the following Url: www.ufocity.com







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   Mar > Mar 1

                           August 1947 Gallup Poll

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:11:09 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:24:25 -0500
Subject: August 1947 Gallup Poll


Greetings:

Someone has brought to my attention that this former posting
is in error:

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/nov/m17-023.shtml

It is indeed. The correct figures for the August 1947 Gallup
Poll are given below:

August 1947 Gallup Poll

"What do you think these saucers are?"

 No answer, don't know                         33%
 Imagination, optical illusions, mirages, etc. 29%
 Hoax                                          10%
 US secret weapon, part of atomic bomb, etc.   15%
 Weather forecasting devices                    3%
 Russian secret weapon                          1%
 Searchlights on airplanes                      2%
 Other explanations                             9%

 Total                                         102%

"(Adds to more than 100% because some gave more than one answer.)

"Guesses ranged all the way from practical to miraculous. Among
the later was a woman, citing biblical text, who said it was a
sign of the world's end. A man in the West thought the discs
were radio waves from the Bikini atomic bomb explosion while
another man saw in them a new product being put out by the
'Dupont people.'

"A few people smelled a publicity or advertising stunt, while
others felt sure that the saucers were after all only some kind
of meteor or comet."

Informal newspaper polls from 1947 support the general line
shown above.

Interestingly enough 90% of Americans had heard of flying
saucers. While only half had heard about the Marshall Plan or
61% about the Taft-Hartley Labor bill.


--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                       Re: Who Is/Was Gen. W.B. Smith?

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:01:07 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:27:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Who Is/Was Gen. W.B. Smith?


Dear Lesley:

To answer your question, "Gen. W.B. Smith" was General Walter
Bedell Smith, who served as the chief of staff to General Dwight
D. Eisenhower at SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied
Expeditionary Force) in World War Two.

In the early 1950s, Gen. Smith was the director of the USA's
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

I have also heard - although this is unconfirmed - that Gen.
Smith was one of the three officers who had the keys to SHAEF's
locked filing cabinets filled with "foot fighter" reports from
Allied units throughout the European Theater of Operations
(ETO). The other two were Ike himself and the RAF Air Marshal
who disappeared aboard the airliner Star Tiger in January 1948.

Joe Trainor






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   Mar > Mar 1

                                Re: John Ford

From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:15:30 PST
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:30:09 -0500
Subject: Re: John Ford


>Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:57:32 -0600
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
>Subject: John Ford [was: A Poststructuralist...]


>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:43:56 +600
>>Subject: Re: A Poststructuralist Take On The UFO Phenomenon

>><snipped aerobatic academics>

>>>Grin...

>>. . . which makes one wonder how much grinning John Ford has
>>done in the past five years -- presupposing the irony that his
>>only mention, thus far, is as inanimate support for an academic
>>point . . .  . Is the man that forgettablely odious that he
>>should be relegated, so casually, to the position of clinical

<like, big snip here dudes>

>>>So, they take John, claim he is "mentally ill," and stick him in
>>>a mental hospital, so he cannot continue to bombard the media
>>>and the internet with his beliefs in regard to what happened on
>>>Long Island.

>>So -- two years in an institution for the criminally insane,
>>followed by three years in regular gulag once it has been
>>determined that he is competent to stand trial. Why can't he get
>>a trial? What about *right* to _speedy_ trial? Why are we so
>>blithely tolerant of this strange and unusual persecution?

>Americans have been Dumbed down.  We have been shown what
>happens to those who choose to "be different."  To abide by a
>different set of Ides and Ideals.  All we need do is look to
>"Waco, Texas," and to the Lannie Weaver incident.  It is just
>their way of saying "stay in line, or this will happen to you."
>I guess we could go all the way back to the "Kent State,"
>incident also to show that American men in Uniform will fire on
>other Americans!

>>>I personally don't think John was dangerous. I think he was set
>>>up. He was sometimes paranoid and always eccentric, but that
>>>does not make him a "murderer".

>>Your assessment contributes to the unanimous, with regard to
>>those that new him. Still, he rots in jail!

<snip>

As a non-U.S.Alian I assume you have certain rights over there
such as using external doctors to independently assess someone
in a mental institution? Hasn't this yet been tried? If not, why
not? At least it might answer a few questions about the man.
Hasn't he got a lawyer at all?

Where's a habeus corpus when you need one?

>REgards, Mike


>Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
>ICQ#:7508455
>BBS: (502) 683-3026
>Fax: (502) 686-7394
>Home: (502) 683-6811
>       ---

Regards,
leanne  ];-)






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   Mar > Mar 1

                  Re: Pending Lawsuit - Dilettoso vs. Korff

From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:10:20 PST
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:34:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Pending Lawsuit - Dilettoso vs. Korff


>From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 22:28:13 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Pending Lawsuit - Dilettoso vs. Korff


>>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:45:41 +1000
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Lawrie Williams <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
>>Subject: Re: Pending Lawsuit - Dilettoso vs. Korf

><snip>

>>And by demanding removal of stuff, people are left wondering:
>>"What has HE got to hide???"

>>By simply ensuring addition of balancing information, he who is
>>in the right can be seen to be in the right.

>>If information flows freely, we all soon can sort out who the
>>big mouthed pratts are. We don't need lawyers to do that. That
>>is what we are losing every time there is one of these actions.

>>Lawrie Williams

>Hi Lawrie,

>May I say that if my livelyhood was potentially threatened by a
>bunch of libelous information posted on the web or any place
>else, you can bet your hindquarters that I'd be using every tool
>at my disposal to erradicate any examples of said information,
>and web-freedom-be-damned!

>Greg

Hi Greg (& Lawrie) & List,

You have to forgive Lawrie as he seems to have no concept of
'mud sticks' tactics (unless he's throwing it...) <g>

Of course any erroneous material posted against an individual
should be removed from the web!

Regards,
Leanne   ];-)






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   Mar > Mar 1

                                 BAR 199902

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:11:02 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:35:34 -0500
Subject: BAR 199902

Bufo Calvin<BR>
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596<BR>
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com<BR>
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/A><BR>
<P>ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to http://member
s.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-
mail them something.  If you forward this, please make sure it is clear that you
 are forwarding it).</P>
February (Vol. 2, #2)

Books mentioned in BAR can be ordered on most e-mail systems by clicking on
the hyperlink title. This will take you to the book at Amazon.com. You can
read more about it at that point and decide if you want to order it. If you
do, you add it to your "shopping cart". Then, if you want another title
mentioned here, please click on it in this post. If you have questions, please
e-mail Bufo at <A HREF="mailto:bufocalvin@aol.com">BufoCalvin@aol.com</A>.
Books are also available by phone from Greenleaf Publications at
1-800-905-UFOs (1-800-905-8367). If you call, please be sure to tell them that
Bufo sent you.

If you have books to recommend, please let me know. If you would like to be
named as recommending it, include that information as well and tell me you
would like to be cited.

In this issue: Featured Title; Recent Arrivals; Things to Come, and Best-
seller:

FEATURED TITLE:

The UFO Anthology, Volume One (CD-ROM)

<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0966965108/bufosweirdworld">
The UFO Anthology, Volume One (CD-ROM)</A>

December, 1998

I have in the past made it a rule that the Featured Titles were something I
had read cover to cover.  In this case, I will make an exception.  The simple
reason is that this I don't have time to sit through this packed presentation
of information on UFOs and related mysteries.  This thoroughly professional CD
has (according to the packaging) over six hours of material.  It uses
extensive video of Robert Dean (who effectively hosts the disc), and features
many other "stellar lights" of the UFO community as well.

The disc is well-organized, and provides good summaries of famous cases.  It
also features related topics, such as crop circles and animal mutilations.
The Introduction to THE UFO ANTHOLOGY warns you that it is unabashedly
advocatory, and yet it doesn't overwhelm you with proselytizing.

It directs you to additional resources, including books and organizations.

This is a very cost-effective way to get a library of information...and I'm
not too jaded by being a computer professional to say that it is cool, too!

RECENT ARRIVALS:

<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0451191722/bufosweirdworld">
Talking to Heaven</A>
James Van Praagh
Paperback reprint of this popular book by a psychic

<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1570714274/bufosweirdworld">
CE-5 (paperback)</A>
Subtitle: Chronicle of Human Initiated Contact
by Richard F. Haines
Haines has a reputation as a serious researcher.  This book is 700 pages,
ought to be something.


<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1571741232/bufosweirdworld">
Cosmic Journeys</A>
Subtitle: My Out-of-Body Explorations with Robert A. Monroe
by Rosalind McKnight
Monroe was a very influential figure...some surprising people have reportedly
attended the Monroe Institute.

<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0746030584/bufosweirdworld">
Poltergeists?</A>
Edited by Ann Claybourne
For kids

<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684848139/bufosweirdworld">
The Threat</A>
Subtitle: Revealing the Secret Alien Agenda
by David M. Jacobs
Now out in paper.  Second book by a distinguished Professor on the abduction
phenomenon: third on UFOs.

<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0802786685/bufosweirdworld">
Ghosts of the West Coast</A>
Subtitle: The Lost Souls of Alcatraz and Other Real-life Hauntings (Haunted
America)
by Ted Wood

THINGS TO COME

These books have not yet been released, but I anticipate them being important.
You can pre-order now, and whenever they are released, get them per Amazon's
policies.

<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380802635/bufosweirdworld">
The Field Guide to Bigfoot, Yeti, and Other Mystery Primates Worldwide </A>
by Loren Coleman, Patrick Huyghe (illustrated by Patrick Trumbore)
Paperback, April 1998
This one should be out any time.  Every book by Coleman has been a classic,
and this is likely to be the most significant hairy biped book to have come
out in years.  There have been other good ones, but this is one I am really
looking forward to seeing.

BEST-SELLER

Thanks in part to a new reporting system from Amazon, I am able to report what
was actually Bufo's WEIRD WORLD's best-seller for the last quarter of 1998.
While in the past I have reported "Most Intriguing" titles (the most visited
ones), I am pleased to announce that

<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0963916122/bufosweirdworld">
Cosmic Test Tube</A>
by Randall Fitzgerald

which was our Featured Title in the last issue of 1998, was the best-seller as
well.  Congratulations!
____________________________
*Prices are set by Amazon.com. Clicking on the link will take you to their
current listing and show the current price.
____________________________


____________________________ <BR>

*Prices are set by Amazon.com. Clicking on the link will take you to their curre
nt listing and show the current price. <BR>
____________________________ <BR>

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
____________________________ <BR>
You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistr
ibuted, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at Bufo
Calvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Med
ia Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the med
ia you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before. <BR>
_____________________________ <BR>







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                  Re: UFO-Landing Case With Picture In 1968

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:26:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:37:35 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO-Landing Case With Picture In 1968


>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 17:03:09 -0500
>From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO-Landing Case With Picture In 1968
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Now I read the MUFON UFO Journal from December 1998.

>In a article about Ted Phillips, Dwight Connelly writes about a
>UFO-landing case in 1968. Nearby was a daylight photo of the UFO
>taken.

>Thats a sensation because I don't remember a case in which a UFO
>was photographed which has produced landing-traces.

>Has anyone more informations about this case and can send me the
>picture of this UFO?

>Werner in Germany


Dear Werner:

I do not have that issue of the MUFON Journal.

Can you provide the date and place of this observation?

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

=  =  =  =






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                                Re: John Ford

From: Alfred Lehmberg <lehmberg@awwwsome.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:15:04 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:41:53 -0500
Subject: Re: John Ford


>Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:57:32 -0600
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
>Subject: John Ford [was: A Poststructuralist...]

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:43:56 +600
>>Subject: Re: A Poststructuralist Take On The UFO Phenomenon

>><snipped aerobatic academics>

<snipped>

>>>I even wrote in protest to the Long Island Police Chief about
>>>the way John and his group were being treated. I received a
>>>reply, which I still have in my data base.

>>God bless you, sir! Can you share it here?

>Yes I can.  Here it is:

>Michael Christol
>UFO/PARANORMAL INVESTIGATIONS
>2610 W. 5th. St.
>Owensboro, Ky. 42301

>February 14, 1993

>Police Commissioner
>c/o Suffolk County Police Dept.
>Yaphank Ave.
>Yaphank, New York  11980

>Dear Commissioner,


<snipped Michael Christol's inspiring letter to forces of darkness>
----------------------------------------------------------------

>The Reply to Me:

>Date: 06-23-93  22:18

>Subj: Letter

>Ok John,

>Here is the copy of the letter I received from the Suffolk
>Police Department.

>----------------------------------------------------------------

>                       COUNTY OF SUFFOLK

>                            <SEAL>
>
>ROBERT J. GAFFNEY                            PETER F. COSGROVE
>County Executive                             Police Commissioner

>                       POLICE DEPARTMENT

>                                                  April 29, 1993

>Mr. Michael Christol
>UFO/PARANORMAL Investigations
>2610 W. 5th Street
>Owensboro, Ky. 42301
>                                              RE: Alert #93-94
>Dear Mr. Christol:

>        At the direction of Police Commissioner Peter F.
>Cosgrove, I was charged with investigating the incident in which
>our Officers confronted members of "The Long Island U.F.O.
>Network, Inc." on January 9, 1993.

Oh, the smarmy and unctuous tone, rank with the cold civility of
officialdom  . . . A soulless twit hiding behind the assumed
invulnerability of his superior, merely _pretending_ a solution,
an explanation -- an apology. Can't you just FEEL the cancer?
It's _expected_ that you whither in the coldly hostile and
repellant assault of it.


>        As you know, our Officers received a call from a citizen
>reporting suspicious persons going door to door reporting
>U.F.O.'s were sighted in the area (CC#93-013373). Accordingly,
>the Officers responded and conducted an investigation.  Upon
>identifying the individuals involved and ascertaining that they
>were not engaged in any criminal activity, those persons were
>permitted to continue on their way.

By who's direction? In who's observation? On who's authority? By
what description? In who's corroboration. By who's estimation?

>        Our investigation has been unable to substantiate that
>our Officers were rude or unprofessional.  Members of your
>organization were not unlawfully detained, nor were their
>constitutional rights infringed.  Serious accusations of this
>type are not looked upon lightly by this department.

Was that a veiled threat in the last sentence? And didn't this
sound a lot like the CIA precipitating their own clean bill of
health in a self administered internal investigation while being
a knowing link in a noxious chain of guns and drugs and foreign
war? In this case what works in the macrocosm works well in the
microcosm. Can you believe the strutting arrogance of these
officious bastards? I hope I live to see the necks of these
faceless institutions rent, and snapped like well chewed
pencils. ' >        As to your concerns that our Officers would,
in the >future, continue to investigate calls of suspicious
persons,

Yes, by all means you Freudian slip-slider, perform a _thorough_
'investigation' on those 'requesting' an investigation of law
abiding people wanting their righteous questions answered!
Doesn't Suffolk county even _blithely_ proofread their
correspondence?

>even those that might involve your members, please rest assured
>that we will.

Ah (!) -- one more arrogant jab. One more reminder of his
inexorable power. One more haughty threat! You can bet a little
wood was produced with this telling little verbal construction.
Hope he had a towel and cigarette handy!

>We are sworn to protect our citizens and we will
>investigate any such calls we may receive, no matter who is
>engaged in the questionable behavior.

OK! How about the behavior of those that are keeping John Ford
from his day in court!

>        As we continually strive to maintain the high level of
>professionalism of our Officers, we thank you for bringing this
>incident to our attention for review.

Yadda yadda, Yadda -- And blow it out a prolapsed pore!

>If you have any further
>questions, feel free to contact me at 854-8502.

>                                      Sincerely,

Right... <heavy sigh>

Regarding your request for information -- you are way beyond me.
All I know could be summed up in a brief plucked from the WEB --
and bloody little of that. John's just not pretty enough, I
imagine. But he's a gutsy little bastard -- ain't 'e?!?

>>I heard Laura Lee mention him briefly on her radio program last
>>week. I missed her point in some AM static, and have yet to dig
>>it out of her archives, but she seemed remarkably unconcerned
>>about his situation. I find this behavior baffling,
>>cross-purposed, and dangerous. Forgive my seeming impertinence,
>>but the plight of John Ford chaps my ass.

>If you dig this out, let me know. I would like to check this out
>also.

Ok. Anybody else take us right to it?

>I agree.  Had I been there, On Long Island, as a part of his
>local working group, I may well have been a part of this sad
>situation.  But living in Kentucky, I was only remotely
>involved.

Oh don't worry pal -- they'll be around to get the both of us
soon enough!

>>Lehmberg@snowhill.com

>Take care Alfred.  Keep up the long fight.


You know -- if everybody on this list sent me five bucks I'd be
straight with it (I won't pull a DIME), and we'd be on the way
to some free publicity for John Ford. John is going to get out
of jail __someday_, his pension might be restored, but he's
going to need some seed money to get back on his feet. The
*legal* community must have the bones of his, likely innocent,
carcass plucked pretty clean . . . I understand he's lost a
lifetime of property -- his home . . . It would be RIGHT for our
community to infuse him with the cash necessary to get him back
on the trail of his investigation. It might even be *News*
worthy . . . forgive the bitter sarcasm.

I think there are respected members of this list who will vouch
for my veracity, sincerity, and honesty. I'll keep records, and
respect anonymity. It's worth a shot; it can even work, and it's
not even the price of a "Blockbuster Night" or a couple of cans
'a chew! Make the _freedom_ of John Ford a manifestation of
_your_ individual will! Match my hundred bucks and feel as
grand, vital, and useful as I feel! And remember, not only are
you saving _yourself_, you might even be loosening the damnable
knot of the whole bleedin' THING!

Restore John Ford!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

--
Explore the Alien View!
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
"Unstill Life" -- Animation
. . . and more.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

<Updated 30 January>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and money orders
to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got theirs)
at:

304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.

"Only thin, _very light_ envelopes with a return address will be
accepted <g>." ~~~ $250.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected ~~~

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno,
understanding a telescope.






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   Mar > Mar 1

                  Re: Pending Lawsuit - Dilettoso vs. Korff

From: Ron Decker <decker@wt.net>
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 06:17:46 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:47:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Pending Lawsuit - Dilettoso vs. Korff


>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:45:41 +1000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Lawrie Williams <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Pending Lawsuit - Dilettoso vs. Korff

>>Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:54:16 -0700
>>From: Jim Dilettoso <jim@villagelabs.com>
>>To: Kal Korff <TotlResrch@aol.com>
>>Subject: Pending Lawsuit

><snip>

>>Succinctly,

>>Jim Dilettoso

>Jim, this is cyberspace. You demand the _removal_ of data, you
>will only create a black market. What has been posted is what
>was posted on a given day. You cannot unexist it.

Lawrie,

I must respectfully disagree with your reply to Jim Dilettoso.

The fabrications/lies (if that is what they turn out to be) most
certainly can be removed. And, IMHO, should be. Why in the world
would anyone want to keep lies alive on this medium? Especially
if they are detrimental to someone making a living?

And what's so special about cyberspace? A lie is a lie. It
should be suppressed. If Korff were publishing this
'information' about Dilettoso in a newspaper don't you think the
newspaper would be liable? If Mr. Korff is guilty and does not
remove his accusations, then what is the difference between that
and a newspaper continuing to publish falsehoods?

>A healthier and more realistic alternative to REMOVAL of
>information is to require the ADDITION of correcting text.

>Please dwell on this because it is so important.

Yep, it's important because Mr. Dilettoso's good name has been
besmirched. How about Mr. Korff coming up with the goods
instead? If he's willing to spread this stuff, how about some
proof of his allegations?

Given Mr. Korff's track record, I'd certainly like to see him
present some evidence. Otherwise, he should remove his material
where he is able and apologize. Are you going to take Korff's
word on this?

If Mr. Korff's accusations are really harming Mr. Dilettoso's
ability to generate income, then it is _really_ important.

>I know a little about this because recently Mike Farrell of
>GUFON demanded the removal of records from the Generallyweird
>list. Yet it was no more than a feisty debate on the reality or
>otherwise of Evil Demons - Mike had been reading a bit too much
>David Jacobs late at night. : )

If I understand you correctly, the incident you describe is a
difference of a matter of opinion. Speculation, if you will. It
doesn't involve provable facts. If Mr. Korff has the truth on
his side then he has nothing to worry about. Let's see it.

>Every time one of you guys goes in boots and all, you are paying
>lawyers to tighten the noose around the freedom of information
>on the internet. What is right and proper in your case might
>mean the arbitrary supression of all sorts of other stuff in the
>future. Because your money will go to the setting of
>_precedents_ that will only take far more good money to _maybe_
>remove at a later date.

Everybody hates lawyers until they need one. How is the
suppression of slander and libel (if it turns out to be such)
threatening the freedom of information? The opposite is true.
The only defense against libel is the truth.

Let's see Mr. Korff produce some evidence.

>This is a very unfortunate trend.

Not really. If it turns out that Kal Korff has to apologize once
again, would you want him to continue posting those same
inaccuracies and maintain a site where these inaccuracies are
continuing to damage Mr. Dilettoso? Where's the justice in that?

>And by demanding removal of stuff, people are left wondering:
>"What has HE got to hide???"

I certainly wouldn't. If someone libels me and removes that
libel from whatever medium in which it's presented, how does
that equate to me 'having something to hide?' I've done nothing
wrong. The libeler has done something wrong.

>By simply ensuring addition of balancing information, he who is
>in the right can be seen to be in the right.

How will that affect Mr. Dilettoso? Will he have to drag out
reams of documents to prove his innocence every time he wants to
work? That's assuming his clients will consider slotting the
time for such a thing.

Just because everyone has the ability to crank out the written
word doesn't mean that which they crank out is the truth.
There's a big difference in saying, "I think the alien
mother-ships are here for the good of mankind," and "Mr. X has
been convicted of fraud in Louisiana."

>If information flows freely, we all soon can sort out who the
>big mouthed pratts are. We don't need lawyers to do that. That
>is what we are losing every time there is one of these actions.

What if the 'big mouthed pratts' don't give a hoot in hell about
harming someone they're libeling? They just roll on and on
presenting their libelous claptrap without any accountancy.

Didn't Mr. Korff already apologize to Art Bell for something
similar? Do you think he's still accusing Bell of the same thing
to this day in the same medium? Why is this instance any
different?

Is libel really 'information?' If Mr. Korff is really libeling
Jim Dilettoso and refuses to stop, then you'd better have some
mechanism in place to stop Mr. Korff.

Maybe if Korff gets his fingers burned a second time he'll think
twice about doing it again. In my opinion that would be a
service of immense good.

Lawrie, what if someone out there in cyberspace started posting
'information' that you were a child molester? That you had been
convicted in seven states of fraud and embezzlement? Would you
be content to see that information remain on someone's Web site
forever and ever if it weren't true?

Best regards,

Ron Decker.







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   Mar > Mar 1

                       UFO ROUNDUP Volume 4, Number 9

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:19:00 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 15:58:06 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 4, Number 9


    UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 4, Number 9
March 1, 1999
Editor: Joseph Trainor

NEW SATELLITE UFO PHOTO
SURFACES IN ITALY

     A weather satellite photograph showing a very large
discoidal UFO similar to the ones photographed by
the GOES-8 satellite is being evaluated by
ufologists in Italy.
     "We have an identical case here in Italy,"
said Adriano Forgione, a journalist with the
magazine Notizario UFO.
     According to Forgione, "on September 3, 1993,
at 6:30 p.m. (8:30 p.m. UTC), Vittorio Orlando, an
amateur radio enthusiast with a hobby of meteorology,
received from the METEOSAT-3 (weather satellite) an
image...High above the left hand side, where the sky
and the curvature of the Earth are joined, there is an
unidentified flying object, with a lens shape, sitting in
a geostationary orbit, with its main axis parallel to
the ground."
     The METEOSAT-3 image shows a dark,
featureless disc that is somewhat bulkier and with
a smaller base circumference than the disc in the
1996 GOES-8 image.
     In the METEOSAT-3 image, the UFO appears
to be positioned 22,000 miles (35,000 kilometers)
above Canada's province of Alberta.  The object
also appears to be moving at the same speed as the
METEOSAT-3, travelling from west to east at a speed
of 6,696 miles per hour (10,713 kilometers per hour).
(Grazie a Adriano Forgione per questo rapporto.)
(Editor's Comment:  The GOES and METEOSAT
images raise some interesting questions.  Are these
discs simply very large star-hopping spacecraft that
are merely "passing through" our solar system?  Or
are they large alien spacecraft in a permanent
orbit around Earth?)

ITALIAN UFO FLAP HITS A
PEAK LAST WEEK

     UFO sightings in Italy hit a peak last week,
with hundreds of sightings reported on Tuesday,
February 23, 1999.
     On Sunday, February 14, 1999, a man spotted
a UFO over Monte Serra mountain, near Pisa, about
300 kilometers (180 miles) north of Rome.  He
described the object as round, "its lights were
blinking red and yellow.  It was not moving.  It was
definitely not an airplane or a helicopter."
     On Friday, February 19, 1999, B.M., a teenaged
girl living in Milano (Milan) "saw a light in the sky
flashing many colours.  It was moving right and then
left, then up and down.  I have never before seen
anything quite like it."  (Grazie a Fabrizio Monaco
di CISETI per questi rapporti.)
     On Tuesday, February 23, 1999, just after 7 p.m.,
a rash of UFO sightings occurred all over northern
and central Italy.
     The Aviazione Militare Italiana (Italian Air Force--J.T.)
put two air bases, AMI Istrana and AMI Tessera, in
Veneto province "on alert," according to Maurizio
Baiata, editor of Notizario UFO.
     UFOs were sighted in Rome, Venezia (Venice),
Genoa, Bologna, Torino (Turin), Cuneo, Ravenna,
Novara, Pescara, Gualdo Tadino, Lucca, San
Giovanni Valdarno, Civitanova, Porto San Elpidio
and Castiglione.
     According to Baiata, "Witnesses saw two very
bright lights in the sky, at varying altitudes and
differing in size, either stationary or slowly passing
by, at time touching together or intermittently
linking up.  While others described them as geometric
formations totally different from a planetary phenomenon
and mostly hovering at high altitude."
     In Novara, a city in Piemonte province located
125 kilometers (75 miles) northeast of Torino, "two
bright lights headed toward Invorio, stopped for about
30 seconds, and right after that flew toward the
horizon and Gozzano."
     In San Giovanni Valdarno, a local man, Filippo
Bilazzi "in the presence of his relatives, video-filmed
two stationary lights which intermittently appeared
and disappeared."
     At 7:20 p.m., in Ravenna, a city in eastern Italy
located 150 kilometers (90 miles) south of Venezia
(Venice), Steffano Matteucci "observed with his
binoculars a three-light formation" which appeared
to be connected to the underside of "a darker,
square-shaped object."
     In Lucca, a city 250 kilometers (150 miles) north
of Rome, witnesses saw "a flying object with the form
of a cigar that left a luminous trail like a comet."
     In Torino (Turin), newspaper offices and the
Carabineri (Italian police--J.T.) received hundreds
of telephone calls from alarmed residents.  But
"officials said Venus and Jupiter, with Saturn,
nearby, launched the psychosis of the 'three
UFOs.'"  (See the Italian newspaper La Provincia
de Cremona for february 24, 1999.  Grazie a
Maurizio Baiata, Alfredo Lissoni, Alessandro
Chiandla, Nicolas Godelle, Matteo Scalabrini,
Gigi Barone e Barbara Agosta per questi
rapporti.)

TWO-DAY UFO FLAP STIRS
PERM IN RUSSIA

     On Tuesday, February 23, 1999, local TV
station KIFEY in Perm, a large city in western
Siberia located 550 kilometers (330 miles)
northeast of Moscow, shocked viewers by
broadcasting an amateur video showing a UFO
hovering over the city.
     According to Russian ufologist Nikolai V.
Subbotin, "The object slowly flew above the city
for two hours.  It looked like two lights flying at
some distance from each other."
     The following day, Wednesday, February 24,
1999, Subbotin himself received a phone call from
a friend in Perm, who "said they had all observed
the same object."
    Grabbing his videocamera, Subbotin went to
the spot and shot footage "for ten minutes.  The
lights danced and then zipped straight up.
Sometimes they began to dim and then to light
up brilliantly at an interval of approximately thirty
seconds."  (Many thanks to Nikolai V. Subbotin
and Bill Hamilton of Skywatch International for
this report.)

GLOWING UFOs SIGHTED
NEAR LEEDS AND LONDON

     On Monday night, February 22, 1999, witnesses
sighted luminous UFOs or "mysterious lights" to
the south and west of Leeds, a large city 160 miles
(256 kilometers) north of London.
     According to the Yorkshire Evening Post,
"Costas Lambropoulos, a computer consultant of
Cromwell Rise, Kippax, could see them on the
horizon as he drove up the (motorway) A-1, near
Wetherby at about 8 p.m."
     "He had first seen them 90 minutes earlier
and estimated that they were over the southwest
of Leeds.  'They looked like stars,' he said,
'They were very bright early on but later dimmed a
little.'"
     "Mrs. Val Walker, of Leysholme Terrace, Upper
Wortley, Leeds, said she and several neighbours
noticed them for some time."
     "'We get the police helicopter over here a bit,'
she said, 'But there was no light shining down from
this object, and there was no sound.  They looked
like huge stars.'"
     "Her neighbour, Paul Carey, also of Leysholme
Terrace, said, 'They would have been noticed by
hundreds of Leeds residents...They were west of
Leeds and suspended unevenly one above the
other.  They were very bright and lower in the sky
than aircraft.  They seemed to move along very
slowly...'"
     "Arthur Jenkinson, 59, retired, of Winrose Avenue,
Middleton, South Leeds, watched the lights through
binoculars and concluded they were over Pudsey."
     "'I saw something like this about 1964, and I was
told then that it was two planets that were nearly
in conjunction,' he said."  (See the Yorkshire
Evening Post for February 23, 1999, "Lights in the
sky speed UFO calls" by Howard Williamson.
Many thanks to Gerry Lovell of Far Shores for
the newspaper article.)
     On Sunday, February 21, 1999, at 7 p.m.,
Niall S. was at his home in Muswell Hill, North
London, where he was "watching two bright lights
hovering in the sky to the northwest of London.
They were too bright for stars but simply hung
there, one higher and slotted to the left.  Then,
after fifteen minutes, one simply vanished.  My
mother came to watch, and a bright light came
from its right side.  The same happened five
minutes later to the lower one," as it, too,
disappeared.
     Niall reported that "they had the appearance
of stars but much brighter.  They were comparable
to police lights but clearly at a greater distance.
The higher one was about 45 degrees above the
horizon, and the lower one about 38 degrees.
Condition of sky--some light clouds.  Its size
was the size of the nail on my small finger."
(Email Interview)

UFOs SEEN IN QUEENSLAND
AND SOUTH AUSTRALIA

     On Tuesday, February 16, 1999, Channel 9 in
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia broadcasted a
20-second segment of an amateur home video
of a UFO.
     The encounter took place in Galen, Qlnd.,
about 900 kilometers (540 miles) northwest of
Brisbane.  According to ufologist Mike Farrell,
"The video was shot in the late afternoon.  The
couple walked outside their home to see some
friends off and watched a bright light hovering low
in the sky.  The lady ran back in and got the
videocam and took just a couple of minutes of
video before the object disappeared below the
tree-line and disappeared from view."
     In South Australia, two men encountered a
UFO on Roxby Downs, near Port Augusta, a
city located 300 kilometers (180 miles) north of
Adelaide, the state capital.
     On Friday, February 5, 1999, at about 10:25
p.m., Jeff Cook and Mick Cartwright of nearby
Minlayton, S.A. "were riding south from Roxby
Downs to Port Augusta" when Cook became
"suddenly aware of what appeared to be the
scene of an incident (automobile mishap--J.T.)
about 1.5 miles ahead of us.  There were many
red lights and at least one bright blue flashing
light.  Within seconds, I realized that the lights
were not stationary.but were moving along the
road at a speed similar to us, an appeared to
be weaving a few feet to either side."
     Cook pointed out the lights to Cartwright,
who was driving, and, checking the speedometer,
calculated that they--and the mystery object--
were traveling at a speed of 110 kilometers
(66 miles) per hour.
     "After a few minutes, the lights of another car
appeared to come from a left hand curving rise,
heading north," Cook reported, "As it approached
the spot where they should have been blocked by
the other vehicle (UFO) we were following, they
were not blocked in any way."
     "Also, a few seconds after their approach,"
the UFO itself "disappeared, and I assumed the
vehicle had gone into a dip in the road and would
reappear.  But it did not reappear, and as our
vehicle continued, there was no drop in the road,
nor break in the trees on either side of the road.
There was no dust stirred up from the side of the
road to suggest it (UFO) had left the bitumen
surface."  (See the Australian newspaper
Country Times for February 20, 1999.  Many
thanks to Diane Harrison of Australian UFO
Research Network Hotline for forwarding the
newspaper article.)

UFO SURPRISES WITNESS
IN MISSISSAUGA, ONTARIO

     On Thursday, February 25, 1999, at 10:40 p.m.,
witness Aaron Warner was in Mississauga,
Ontario (population 465,000), a large city 10 miles
(16 kilometers) southwest of Toronto, when he
spotted a UFO.
     "The UFO was a very intense bright white light
that was 50 meters (165 feet) across, 50 meters
high.  It had a bluish gleam around it.  It made a
very high-pitched sound as it crossed the sky and
disappeared after about a minute or so."  (Email
Interview)
(Editor's Note: To Forteans, this city is best
known as the site of the "Mississauga Blob"
case.  On June 16, 1979, a molten green flaming
blob fell from the sky and landed on a picnic
table in the witnesses' rear garden.)

UFOs APPEAR FREQUENTLY
IN SOUTHERN COLORADO

     On Thursday, February 4, 1999, two witnesses
driving south on Colorado Highway 17 just west of
Crestone, Colo. (population 400) "observed a
'brilliant orb of white light' hovering around 200 feet
off the ground and to the east of them.  At one
point during the 35-to-40 second sighting, one
witness, a retired U.S. Air Force officer, said the
object shot a beam of light at the ground, 'like it
was looking for a place to land.'"
     The next morning, Friday, February 5, 1999,
the ex-USAF officer was outdoors at 7:45 a.m.
and "observed a dark grey van with smoked
windows and (light blue U.S.) government license
plates" in Crestone.  "He observed that the van
had no other markings, which seemed odd."
     Christopher O'Brien, author of The Mysterious Valley
and the newly-published Enter the Valley encountered
the mysterious grey van later the same day at the
Baca Grande housing development.
     O'Brien stated that he "attempted to get an
interview" with the van's occupants.  They reportedly
"claimed they were with the National Weather Service
and declined to divulge why they were in the area.  I
counted eight people in this particular van.  They were
dressed in dress shirts and slacks and looked like
scientists."
     On Saturday, February 13, 1999, at 3:05 p.m.,
two witnesses north of Center, Colo. (population 1,963),
located 235 miles (376 kilometers) southwest of Denver,
spotted "an erratically-moving silver reflection that was
visible three times--each time for several seconds.
Object seemed to be below 2,000 feet in altitude and
made many twisting turns.  One witness described it
as 'a fishing lure in the sky.'  The second witness, who
was able to focus a pair of binoculars on the object,
described it as 'kind of rectangular-looking but with
no wings.'"  (Many thanks to Chris O'Brien for the
above news stories. And don't miss Chris's great new
book, Enter the Valley, from St. Martin's Paperbacks.
If your local bookstore doesn't have it, send an email
to Bufo Calvin at BufoCalvin@aol.com or log in at
amazon.com.  If you'd like to order the book through
your local bookstore, ask your bookseller to contact
St. Martin's Press and place the order.  For ordering
purposes, the ISBN number for Enter the Valley is
0-312-96835-3.)

SPACECRAFT PERFORM
NEW FLIGHT MANEUVERS

     While Earthbound onlookers were enjoying the
conjunction of Venus and Jupiter last week, two
NASA spacecraft were performing new flight
maneuvers in deep space.
     Galileo, now on its way to Callisto, sent back
data and images from its recent flyby of Europa.
     "Data from six observations were beamed to
Earth this week," including important magnetic and
electrical field assessments of Europa.
     Camera images from Galileo included views of
the icy rolling plains near Europa's north pole,
photos of an intiguing feature called Rhadamanthys
Linea, a fracture zone caused by cryovolcanic
activity, and three observations of Europa's Pwyll
crater, described as "a region of mottled terrain
and a region with a spectacular mirror-like appearance."
     With the data safely dispatched to Earth, for
Galileo, it's now...on to Callisto!
     On Friday, February 19, 1999, at 2:20 p.m.
Pacific time, the Mars Global Surveyor fired its
main engine.  The purpose of the "burn" was "to
fine-tune its path around the red planet into a nearly
circular, sun-synchronous orbit.  The final 'transfer
to mapping orbit' has lowered Mars Global Surveyor's
closest approach over Mars from 405 kilometers
(253 miles) to 367 kilometers (229 miles)."
     "We are all delighted to finally be able to do this
mission as it was designed, in the proper mapping
orbit with all of the instruments working at their
full potential," said Dr. Arden Albee, MGS project
scientist at the California Institute of Technology
in Pasadena.  (Many thanks to Guillermo Alarcon
for forwarding the NASA news releases.)

SECRETS OF THE BLACK
PYRAMIDS

     Spain's Canary Islands are back in the news.
Six step pyramids, made of black volcanic stones,
were discovered late last year near Guimar, a town
on the eastern shore of Tenerife Island, about
40 kilometers (24 miles) south of Santa Cruz de
Tenerife.
     According to the London Times, "Spain's
Canary Islands off the northwest coast of Africa
hardly seem a place for pyramids, but there seem
to be six of them on Tenerife."
     "The inhabitants have generally ignored these
dilapidated piles of black volcanic stones.  However,
one perceptive native described them to Thor
Heyerdahl of Kon Tiki fame and a leading
proponent of cultural diffusion across all oceans."
     "Quick to respond, Heyerdahl perceived amid
the debris six stepped pyramids of black stone.
He persuaded a Norwegian businessman to buy
the site, clean up the debris of centuries and
found a museum."
     "One of the 'black' pyramids has now been
restored, but some experts are still unconvinced.
However, recent excavations under one pyramid
have yielded artifacts identified with" the Guanches,
"the pre-Spanish inhabitants of Tenerife."
     "Meanwhile, Heyerdahl has been checking out
a rumored pyramid on Sicily."  (See Science
Frontiers #122, March-April 1999 issue by William
S. Corliss, page 1  See also the Times of London
for December 19, 1998, "Riddle of the Black
Pyramids" by Robin Mead.)

from the UFO Files...

1998: YELLVILLE, ARKANSAS,
           A TOWN OF MYSTERY

     On October 14, 1998, "law enforcement officials"
in Yellville, Arkansas (population 1,181) "received
several reports of low-flying helicopters."
     "Two were reportedly flying over" the area
"sometime past 9 p.m. Wednesday.  A law
enforcement official in Baxter County saw two
helicopters flying below 500 feet.  The officer said
both aircraft were painted dark green in the
military style."
     "A dispatcher for the Arkansas State Police
in Harrison said the state police had been trying
to determine where the aircraft were from and
what they were doing but as of 10:30 p.m.
Wednesday, had not been successful."  (See
the Baxter Bulletin of Mountain Home, Ark.
for October 15, 1998, "'Mystery choppers'
fly low over area," page 1.)
     The mystery helicopter flights came just
days after a UFO flap in the area.  But this was
by no means the first "weird event" to have
taken place in little Yellville.
     "On the morning of Tuesday, March 19,
1996, a large flatbed commercial carrier was
photographed as it passed through Yellville,
Arkansas.  The truck was traveling on
(Arkansas Highway) AR 62.  The cargo was
three UN equipment items.  At the forward
station was a small trailer mounted generator
set.  Center was a Humvee rigged as an
ambulance without any Red Cross markings.
Aft was a Humvee with no right door visible
in the photo.  All equipment is painted white with
black UN insignia."  (See Black Helicopters II -
The Endgame Stategy by Jim Keith, IllumiNet
Press, Lilburn, Georgia, 1997, page 144.)
     One wonders what in Yellville could have
drawn the attention of the United Nations.  There
are limestone caves in the area, possibly linked
to the Mystic Cave system.  Yet an intriguing
incident took place during the Nineteenth
Century at Devil's Hole Cave, about 20 miles
(32 kilometers) southwest of Yellville.
     "Deciding to find out what was causing all the
commotion down in the cave. E.J. Rhodes, owner
of the land containing its (the cave's) mouth,
descended by rope to a ledge 200 feet below
ground.  The shaft was too tight to penetrate
farther."
     "Later, several men probed the cave with a
long rope.  They tired a flatiron on it and let it
down into the hole.  At 200 feet, the iron struck
something--evidently the ledge discovered
earlier by Rhodes.  A vicious hissing rose out
of the hole, as if from some large, angry animal."
     "The men pulled up the rope and found that
the handle of the iron had been bent, and was
even thought by some to show teeth marks.
A large stone was then lowered with the rope.
Again the angry sibilance, and when the rope
was drawn up, the stone was gone, and the
rope was neatly bitten off."
     "Local people call the Devil's Hole Cave
entity the Gowrow and believe it to be a gigantic,
man-eating lizard.  Stories of it have circulated
since the turn of the century," i,e, 1900.
(See Weird America by Jim Brandon, E.P.
Dutton Books, New York, N.Y. 1978, page 15)
     Whether the Gowrow still prowls the
limestone caverns under Yellville is anybody's
guess.  Still, within the past three years, two
clandestine military groups have shown up
in Yellville, looking for...what?

FUN UFO WEBSITES
     Interested in those new images of Europa?
Check them out at this website.  Log in at
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo
     The Jeff Davis Show will be featuring some
UFO chat in the near future.  With RealAudio,
you can listen to Jeff's show.  Tune in at
http://members.aol.com/TFIJDSHOW/
     Don't miss our parent site, UFOINFO,
with its latest addition to the photo gallery--
the METEOSAT-3 image.  Drop in any time
and sample UFOINFO's wide array of photos,
features, news stories and links.  It's at
http://ufoinfo.com
     Back issues of UFO Roundup can be
accessed, read and downloaded at our
webpage.  Feel free to browse any time at
http://ufoinfo.com/roundup

     That's it for this week.  Just us in seven
days for more saucer news from all around
the planet, brought to you by "the paper that
goes home--UFO Roundup."  See you then!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1999 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may
post items from UFO Roundup on their websites
or in newsgroups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the
date of issue in which the item first appeared.
==================================================

***NOTE*** The alleged METEOSAT-3 image mentioned
above can be found with the online edition of this
bulletin at:

http://ufoinfo.com/rounduo/v04/rnd04_09.html

John Hayes webmaster@ufoinfo.com
==================================================





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 1

               -=[For The Record]=- C-E: Ragsdale Story Video

From: Al Cornett <acorn@MIS.NET>
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 18:53:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 17:09:33 -0500
Subject: -=[For The Record]=- C-E: Ragsdale Story Video


The List:

I need some verification from anyone that has thoroughly
researched the Jim Ragsdale story.

A previous post (Fall, 98), discredited the story because of a
discrepancy concerning hard evidence taken from the crash by
Ragsdale and his lady friend.

I have a diffucult time watching his death-bed confession and
concluding that he fabricated the whole thing. So far, no one
has given me a detailed reason why he has been discrdited. I've
always been fascinated with his description of the space carfts
interior specifically regarding the crystal aspects of the
"Captain's chair, a ruby chair ...fancy seat", etc. His
descriptions is compatable with some of Corso's description of
alien technology and a recent posting (Filer's Files #8)
concerning a possible abduction of "Anna" from Trumbull Co.,
Ohio in which she describes similar enterior equipment of a
spacecraft.

Ragsdale and Anna seem to be describing complicated scientific
apparatus - sophisticated devices that seem to fit into a
scenerio required in adapting and utilizing gravity for
propulsion and space travel.

I would like to know of other sitings with related descriptions.

Good cheers, Acorn

<<<>>>


Date:Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:30:16 +1100
From: John Hayes <legion@MIRA. NET>
Subject: Re: Ragsdale Story Video
To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV. AOL. COM

In-Reply-To:<36D8AEE7. 1CAB59EF@mis. net> from Al Cornett at
Feb 27, 99 09:50:15 pm

Hi Al:

Two stories about Ragsdale's Roswell crash site revisionism: One
from 'Forbes' magazine, the other from Phil Klass.

Regards,
John

===================================================


From 'Forbes' July 15, 1996

P.T. Barnum Is Alive And Apparently Living In Roswell, NM
by
William P. Barrett


Let's visit the City Hall office of Roswell, N. M. Mayor Thomas
Jennings. Adorning the room: three space-alien dolls, one
sitting in a chair next to Hizzoner's desk. The official city
stationery contains a flying-saucer-shaped watermark. On one
wall hangs the framed July 8, 1947 front page of the Roswell
Daily Record with the stunning headline that the local Air Force
base "Captures Flying Saucer on Ranch in Roswell Region. "

[. . . ]

Where did the supposed UFO crash-land? In 1994 two UFO
researchers identified a location 30 miles north of Roswell.
They relied partly on the account of one Jim Ragsdale, who said
the UFO crashed next to the pickup truck in which he and a
ladyfriend were dallying. He identified pictures of the site and
in a sworn statement said that he saw bodies from a distance.
That land was bought in 1976 by fourth-generation farmer Miller
(Hub) Corn. No firm believer but also no fool, he now allows
tourists to visit the site -- for $15 a head -- and gets 500
takers annually.

Here's where things get fuzzy.

According to the plainspoken Corn, the leaders of the downtown
UFO museum invited him to a meeting and offered to buy the site.
He refused.

Museum officials confirm the meeting but deny any offer was
made.

In any event, within a few months the museum was writing that
Ragsdale had identified a new site 53 miles west of Roswell, on
U. S. Forest Service land in the Capitan Mountains.

Before he died last year, Ragsdale's memory improved, too.

In a second affidavit he vividly described the dead aliens and
even tried to touch one. His enhanced account endures in a
just-released video (retail, $29.50) and book ($14. 95).

The publisher: a corporation organized by the family of museum
secretary/treasurer Max Littell. A canny real estate developer,
Littell says Ragsdale heirs and the museum will split proceeds
"after our expenses are covered."

In the Capitan Mountains elderly neighbors called by 'Forbes'
say flatly the crash didn't happen there, and - tellingly -
that no UFO Museum researcher had bothered to contact them.

"It's all a hoax," says a laughing Dorothy Epps, 82, whose
family has owned land within a half-mile of the supposed crash
site since 1909. "But 'lets' get it on my ranch."

==============================================================

From _Skeptics' UFO Newsletter_ by Philip J. Klass. #34, July,
1995 404 "N" Street, SW, Washington DC 20024

[SIX ISSUES $15 for US/CANADA, OVERSEAS AIR MAIL IS $20/YEAR]

==============================================================

Key Roswell "Witness" Shifts Location of UFO "Impact Site" 50
Miles And Sells Exclusive Rights to Roswell's International UFO
Museum.

_Jim Ragsdale_, one of two key (alleged) first-hand eyewitnesses
who earlier told _Kevin Randle_ and _Don Schmitt_ that the
flying saucer had crashed 35 miles _north_ of Roswell, rather
than on the Mac Brazel ranch (75 miles northwest of Roswell),
has changed his tale and now claims the "impact site" is roughly
50 miles west of Roswell. Further, under an agreement with
Roswell's International UFO Museum and Research Center, Ragsdale
is not to reveal the exact location of the new "Ragsdale Impact
Site," according to a letter dated Sept. 10, 1994, written by
Max Littell, Secretary-Treasurer of the Museum.

IT COULD BE ONLY A CURIOUS COINCIDENCE: In early 1994, shortly
before publication of the second Randle/Schmitt book which would
reveal the location of the new R/S "impact site" 35 miles north
of Roswell, officials of the International UFO Museum reportedly
offered to buy the land on which the site was located, according
to Miller (Hub) Corn, who owns the property. Corn told _SUN_
that he accepted an invitation to meet with Littell and other
museum officials, president Walter Haut and vice-president (and
former mortician) Glenn Dennis, who wanted to buy the "impact
site" property so the museum could exploit it as a tourist
attraction. Corn said he declined to sell. Several weeks later,
Corn said he offered to lease the site to the museum in return
for a share of the revenue, but his offer was rejected.

During the next several months, Ragsdale's recollections
seemingly improved and he remembered that 47 years earlier he
and his girlfriend had been camping about 50 miles _west_ of
Roswell, not 35 miles _north_ of Roswell, when they (allegedly)
has stumbled onto a crashed saucer with several dead and dying
ETs. When Randle/Schmitt interviewed Ragsdale in January and
September 1993, he said that he and his girlfriend did not get
close to the crashed saucer and ETs before they saw military
vehicles approaching and decided to depart. Now Ragsdale recalls
that he got close enough to pull off one of the ETs' helmets.

In Littell's Sept. 10, 1994, letter to Ragsdale, he refers to a
recent "series of interviews" with the museum's staff and says,
"You have verified the total information being put into print as
being totally yours, and not from any secondary source. The
Museum will prepare the information and dispence (sic) the same
in various ways. From this date, any net proceeds realized by
the Museum will be divided with you, for your lifetime, on the
basis of 25% of any gross amount to Jim Ragsdale, and 75% to the
Museum. In exchange the Museum will own the rights to do this on
a permanent basis _and any designation of the impact site, and
all material relating thereto will be designated as 'The Jim
Ragsdale' incident and site. "_

_SUN_ recently heard rumors that the Museum, or some of its
officials, had purchased the "Ragsdale Impact Site" land, near a
now-deserted Boy Scout camp which could be converted into a
tourist motel. When we called Walter Haut on June 18 to check
out the rumors, he said: "If anybody has, it's unknown to me. "
But he added that the Museum officials had recently met with a
representative of the Bureau of Land Management to determine if
the "Ragsdale Impact Site" was Federal or State-owned land or
privately held, and the BLM representative agreed to find out.
Haut added: "If perchance it is private property, I hope nobody
buys it so that we can get people to go up there and look at it,
if they want. "

When Kevin Randle learned of the deal between Ragsdale and
Roswell's International UFO Museum and Research Center, it was a
most embarrassing development. The second R/S book claimed that
the crashed saucer and ET bodies had been found 35 miles north
of Roswell, based on the tales told by Ragsdale and _Frank
Kaufmann_, which Randle claimed "tend to corroborate one
another. " When Randle spoke at a UFO conference in Pensacola on
Oct. 16, 1994, he opted to make a limited disclosure [SUN
#31/Jan. 1995]. Randle said that Ragsdale's latest version was
"significantly different than the story he originally related to
us... The story he tells now is much more exciting than just
seeing the [ET] bodies in the distance. He's now talking about
going down and trying to pull the helmet off one of the dead
aliens... Ragsdale has signed a paper with another organization
to provide his story for monetary inducements... We believe the
changes were coached by those who want to sell his story..." But
Randle did not mention the new "Ragsdale Impact Site. "

*E-O-F*

<<<>>>


Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:41:26 EST
From: RGates8254@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Ragsdale Story Video
To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

In a message dated 2/27/99 10:30:34 PM Mountain Standard Time,
legion@MIRA.NET writes:


>Hi Al:

>Two stories about Ragsdale's Roswell crash site revisionism: One
>from _Forbes_ magazine, the other from Phil Klass.

>Regards,
>        John

>  ===================================================


Personally I would tend to think the 30 miles north site is more
accurate because it was before the financial
dealings/inducements.

I also recall that Kevin was able to get some confirmation of
the north site when the archeologist mentioned the military road
blocks north of town.

Last I heard we were up to 6 crash sites, not to mention two new
ones from the so called new MJ-12 documents, i.e. Trinity site
and 30 miles east of Alamagordo AAF base.

Cheers,

Robert

<<<>>>


Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:14:40 -0600
From: slk <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
Subject: Re: Ragsdale Story Video
To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

On Sunday, 28 Feb 1999 at 08:56:53
Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> wrote:

The Museum has set all of this in motion. They were the ones who
have shifted things around for a financial gain and they're the
ones who induced Ragsdale to change his tune.

It gets even worse.

James Houran and Steve Porter using a techique developed in
Germany to access the reliability of testimony in child abuse
cases determined, based on the second Ragsdale story, that it
was either confabulation or false memory.

Makes no difference which you believe, both are basically the
same thing which is the second Ragsdale tale is not true.

The only thing that we can intelligently do is say that we do
not believe the Ragsdale testimony is true and that we were the
ones who provided the evidence for it. In other words, although
we wanted it to be true, we continued to investigate until the
truth could be established.

KRandle


Support AND USE the research web sites by sending $1 a month to:

Sites
618 Davis Drive
Mt. Vernon, IN  47620
Main InterLink Site Directory:
http://www.evansville.net/~slk/InterLink.html

<<<>>>






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                              Nocturnal Lights

From: Jan-Hendrik Raabe <y0001095@ws.rz.tu-bs.de>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:35:29 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 17:27:29 -0500
Subject: Nocturnal Lights


Does anyone remember?
Regards
J.


Two reports of group of lights at night. The first letter
mentions the repeated appearance of a group of lights, meanwhile
the second letter reports a circular group of lights.

Taken from the

'Report on a Survey of the Membership of the American
Astronomical Society Concerning the UFO Problem'

by Peter A. Sturrock, Institute for Plasma Research, Stanford
Univ., Calif. 1977
p.92/93

---------------------------------------------------------------

NL23. _Forty Fort, Pennsylvania. 1966, August 11._

Between 8:30 pm (EDT) and 1:30 am next day. Sighting lasted
about 3 minutes. "On the evening of August 11, 1966 (It may have
been 1965, I have no record) I was observing the Perseids. The
sky was partly cloudy. The observations were being made in Forty
Fort, PA (NE part of the state). At some point I realized that a
disk of light, perhaps 1 degree in diameter was flashing,
visible against the edge of a cloud. Puzzled by it at first, I
decided to check to see if it was a reflection from a nearby
airport light. It was not. The disk flashed on for an instant
about every twenty seconds, roughly the period of the airport
light (I had no timer) but they were clearly out of phase.
Immediately preceding each of the last three flashes before the
disk stopped I saw a swarm of what looked like meteors
(definitely not Perseids) fly low along the Southeastern
horizon. They seemed to be a few lights flying almost 'in
formation' in each case. It struck me as a remarkable
coincidence that so many meteor should follow the same
trajectory, clumped into a period identical to that of the
mysterious light. I never reported this incident for two
reasons. First, having made no notes, the accuracy of my
recollections must be held suspect. Second, it is too easy to
think of this incident as explained by simple events (e.g.
someone shining a powerful flashligh on the cloud) made peculiar
only by the coincidence of their having happened together."

The flashing light was almost overhead, slightly to the
northwest visible (to about magnitude 3); neither sun nor moon
was in the sky. "There is a private airport about 200 yards east
of where I was standing. An Air Force Center of somesort is also
located at that airport."  Each of the three swarms contained
three to six objects moving in unison in formation, something
like:

            *
        *           *
           *   *

The objects appeared to be similar to each other. "They looked
just like meteors. Only the pattern, i.e. several in a swarm and
all swarms following apparently the same courseplus their
conjunction with the flashing light, makes them unusual. (Note
that they are _not_ coming from the Perseid radiant.)  The
flashing light looked just a spot refected from a cloud. It
flashed at an interval of about 20 seconds _out of synch_ with
the airport light."  The objects in each swarm appeared to
maintain fixed positions relative to each other. The objects
appeared to be solid, were apparently self-luminous, and looked
like meteors. There was no sound; to the best of the
respondent's recollection, they left no visible trail. A guess
of the size of the flashing light is about 500 feet diameter.
The swarms seemed to move in a northeast line and their motion
was steady, with a speed thoroughly consistent with that of
meteors. The speed of the swarm is estimated at about 20 deg/s.

The swarms disappeared by going below the horizon. The flashing
light disappeared when it flicked off as usual and then failed
to reappear.


===============================================================

p.102
----------------------------------------------------------------

NL27. _Lawrence, Kansas, 1963. November 11_, about 12 30 am.

"The 'object' was in sight for 10 sec. It was first seen
directly overhead, and moved straight south until it was lost in
the horizon haze. Its maximum angular diameter was about 5
degrees (as judged by comparison with Orion's belt). It made no
sound. It appeared to be a group of small, circular, rather dim
white lights arranged in a disc shape. Its direction and speed
did not change while it was in sight. The night was cloudless
and, as I remember, there was no moon up, though this could be
easily checked in an almanac. light were visible: the object was
uniformly illuminated, perhaps other witnesses."

Respondent was observing from the roof of a university building.
He glanced at the sky as was his habit on leaving the astronomy
classroom, the door of which opens onto the roof. He observed
the object for about 13 seconds. It was first seen in an
easterly direction and last seen towards the south. The sky was
clear and stars were visible but the moon was not up. There was
no wind. The object was not seen very clearly. The limiting
factor was the dimness of the object. The object appeared to be
round when overhead and ellipsoidal when near the horizon. Its
color was white or 'neutral'. No point source by reflected light
(but this is speculation).

The change in shape as the object moved toward the horizon is
consistent with a solid disk-shaped object moving away from an
overhead position. The object appeared to be solid but it made
no sound. It was not quite sharply outlined, being somewhat
fuzzy. It is not clear whether it was self-luminous or
reflecting. The object became progressively dimmer as it moved
toward the horizon. A _guess_ of the size of the object is 15 to
30 feet. It moved steadily straight south from overhead to a
point near the horizon where it disappeared in the horizon haze.
The speed of the object is estimated to have been about 135 mph,
based on the assumption that it was 30 feet across, which means
that it was about 350 feet overhead (assuming an apparent
diameter of 5 degrees). If it disappeared 10 degrees above the
horizon and was in sight for about 10 seconds, the law of sines
gives the path length (while in sight) of about 2000 feet and
simple division gives the speed. _If_ the object were 60 feet
across, the speed was about 270 miles per hour; if 15 feet,
about 65 miles per hour, etc


Aditional Comment received August, 1977.

"More should be made of the inconsistency of my first impression
of a 'group of lights', and my _memory_ of the event, an evenly
illuminated disk. Which is the more accurate, I could not now
say. It is safe to say that I remain puzzled by the whole affair
- and probably will for the rest of my life."






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   Mar > Mar 1

                     Bethlehem, Pennsylvania Sightings?

From: Molly Eckert <Molnan@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 18:07:23 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 22:31:16 -0500
Subject: Bethlehem, Pennsylvania Sightings?


Hello

The other day a coworker of mine told me that in the late 1960s
early 1970s South Mountain in Bethlehem Pennsylvania was an
active spot for UFOs. She told me that it was so active that
families would flock there weekly to watch the lights in the
sky.

I have not ever heard of this area being of interest for UFOs.

If anyone knows of any information on this area please let me
know.

Thanks

Molly Eckert






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                                Re: John Ford

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 18:35:33 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 22:43:20 -0500
Subject: Re: John Ford


>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: John Ford
>Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:15:30 PST

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:43:56 +600
>>>Subject: Re: A Poststructuralist Take On The UFO Phenomenon

>>>>I personally don't think John was dangerous. I think he was set
>>>>up. He was sometimes paranoid and always eccentric, but that
>>>>does not make him a "murderer".

>>>Your assessment contributes to the unanimous, with regard to
>>>those that new him. Still, he rots in jail!

><snip>

>As a non-U.S.Alien I assume you have certain rights over there
>such as using external doctors to independently assess someone
>in a mental institution? Hasn't this yet been tried? If not, why
>not? At least it might answer a few questions about the man.
>Hasn't he got a lawyer at all?

>Where's a habeus corpus when you need one?

>Regards,
>leanne  ];-)


I do not live in New York, Leanne.  So I do not know what has
and has not been done to free John or see that he has good
representation.

You might ask Alfred Lehmberg, he may know more about that.

REgards, Mike

 Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
 ICQ#:7508455
 BBS: (502) 683-3026
 Fax: (502) 686-7394
 Home: (502) 683-6811
        ---





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   Mar > Mar 1

                         Re: August 1947 Gallup Poll

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:17:16 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 22:48:51 -0500
Subject: Re: August 1947 Gallup Poll


>From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
>Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:11:09 -0800
>Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:24:25 -0500
>Subject: August 1947 Gallup Poll

>August 1947 Gallup Poll

>"What do you think these saucers are?"

>No answer, don't know                         33%
>Imagination, optical illusions, mirages, etc. 29%
>Hoax                                          10%
>US secret weapon, part of atomic bomb, etc.   15%
>Weather forecasting devices                    3%
>Russian secret weapon                          1%
>Searchlights on airplanes                      2%
>Other explanations                             9%

>Total                                        102%

>"(Adds to more than 100% because some gave more than one answer.)

>"Guesses ranged all the way from practical to miraculous. Among
>the later was a woman, citing biblical text, who said it was a
>sign of the world's end. A man in the West thought the discs
>were radio waves from the Bikini atomic bomb explosion while
>another man saw in them a new product being put out by the
>'Dupont people.'

>"A few people smelled a publicity or advertising stunt, while
>others felt sure that the saucers were after all only some kind
>of meteor or comet."

>Informal newspaper polls from 1947 support the general line
>shown above.

Jan,

A few comments.

The above poll has been cited by some Net debunkers that people
weren't thinking "alien spacecraft" as an explanation for the
saucers during the June/July 1947 wave. However, since that
isn't one of the categories separately listed in the poll, it is
invalid to draw such a conclusion. It could easily fall into the
"No answer, don't know" or "Other explanation" categories.

I might add that this poll also followed a month after the
rather severe military/media debunking  of the saucers
immediately following the Roswell incident. Some people
responding to the poll may have been fearful of providing an ET
opinion out of fear of ridicule.

From my own readings of numerous 1947 newspapers, the idea that
the saucers might be ET spacecraft was certainly raised, though
not often. This was, after all, the age of Flash Gordon/Buck
Rogers movie serials, not to mention Orson Well's infamous "War
of the World's broadcast. Newspapers sometimes jokingly referred
to the saucers as "men from Mars."

The most common explanations you see in the papers, however,
pretty much follow the Gallup poll above. Generally cited
explanations were misidentification, hysteria, hoaxes, and
optical illusions.

Next were a secret U.S. government project or maybe secret
Soviet craft. The topic of the "flying pancake" and "flying
wings" came up in this regard, particularly on July 6. Atomic
experiments were brought up.

There were some mentions of the Nazi "crystal balls," AKA "foo
fighters," and the 1946 Scandanavian ghost rockets,  which many
today consider to be earlier forerunners of the 1947 UFO wave.

There were two nationally syndicated articles about Charles Fort
and his cataloguing of similar reports dating back to the last
century and Meade Layne's theories. In these articles the
possibilities of interplanetary craft and interdimensional or
etheric beings were raised.

In short, things weren't all that different in 1947 than they
are today.

David Rudiak






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                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net>
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 17:23:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 22:51:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


>From: John Ratcliff <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?
>Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:15:58 -0600

>>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:02:57 -0800
>>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Zecharia Sitchin?

>Josh queried:

>>I'd like to ask a question I've wondered for many years
>>yet never got around to seriously investigating. What do
>>other Sumerian scholars (noted and degreed) feel
>>regarding Zecheriah Sitchin's interpretations of the
>>Sumerian tablets?

>They think what any rational person would think, that Sitchin's
>claims are without merit, represent the worst example of
>'extrapolating wildly beyond a hopelessly limited dataset', and
>don't merit any response.

John,

I am curious as to whether your remarks about Stichin are based
on any data or is it your own personal opinion?

It is my experience that these rational people that you refer to
are rooted so deep in stories, fables, and organized religion
that there is not much chance of them accepting the truth let
alone search for it.

I have not read all of Stichin's writing but I have read some
and some of it I like, but I probably am not one of the rational
people, some years ago I had to break out of that mold and begin
to look for the truth instead of fairy tales.






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   Mar > Mar 2

                            Tunguska Documentary?

From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:14:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 09:29:36 -0500
Subject: Tunguska Documentary?


Hi all...

First a big thank you to Errol and all who make this list
happen. I don't comment much here but just want to say thank
you.

Second, has anyone seen or heard of a documentary on the
Tunguska event, you know 1908 an explosion flattens miles of
Russian trees. I understand there was a documentary made on this
in the twenties. If anyone has any info I would appreciate if
you could drop me a line.

Third, please visit my updated website. Recently I've added
several audio files to the group of radio show's I've recorded.
Included are interviews with Susan Wright author of UFO
Headquarters, Randell Fitzgerald author of The Cosmic Test Tube,
Dr. Brian O'Leary and electric car activist Remy Chevalier on
ending government secrecy, these are in the author section. At
this time the audio files are downloadable. These programs are
worth the twenty minutes it takes to download at 33.6 kps. On
the experiencer side, I've added an interview with Michelle
Guerin, reptile sex, milab, etc.

Please drop by, let me know what you think of the site and the
interviews. If know of any events, please email them to me, and
I will post them on the site as well as mention them on the air,
if the event is in the New York area. Please email me at least a
month in advance.

Coming in March on UFO Desk, interviews with Bud Hopkins, Dr.
David Jacobs, and Peter Robbins, in anticipation of the Intruder
Foundation event of April 10.

For New York and surrounding areas, UFO Desk is broadcast
alternate Monday mornings over radio WBAI NY 99.5 FM. The Desk
resides inside of Sidney Smiths Carrier Wave. If you've not
checked out WBAI, please do. It's New York's best progressive
radio station, non commercial and listener supported.

Thank you all for your time, and please stop by.

Paul Wms.
Executive Producer UFO Desk
WBAI NY 99.5 FM
www.escape.com/~paulw/ufodesk.html





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   Mar > Mar 2

                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 21:02:20 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:24:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin


>From: John Ratcliff <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?
>Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:15:58 -0600

>>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:02:57 -0800
>>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Zecharia Sitchin?

>>I'd like to ask a question I've wondered for many years
>>yet never got around to seriously investigating. What do
>>other Sumerian scholars (noted and degreed) feel
>>regarding Zecheriah Sitchin's interpretations of the
>>Sumerian tablets?

>Josh,

>They think what any rational person would think, that Sitchin's
>claims are without merit, represent the worst example of
>'extrapolating wildly beyond a hopelessly limited dataset', and
>don't merit any response.

>John


Dear Josh and John:

A very good question!

Another one might be:

" What do astronomers think of Sitchin's extra planet? "

Best wishes

-  Larry Hatch






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                    The Millennium Report - March 1, 1999

From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:27:32 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:28:13 -0500
Subject: The Millennium Report - March 1, 1999


The Millennium Report
The News Service of The Millennium Project
(E-Mail Summary Edition)

March 1, 1999

Editor:
Paul Anderson

_____________________________


The Millennium Report is the news service of The
Millennium Project, an independent research organization
initiated in January 1999 as an alternative source of news
and information to the maintream media. TMP was founded by
future studies researcher Paul Anderson, also director of
Circles Phenomenon Research Canada.

TMR is published weekly or as breaking news develops,
on the TMP web site. This free e-mail summary is available
by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing
list, send your request, including either "subscribe TMR" or
"unsubscribe TMR" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.ca

See the TMP web site for the web edition of TMR, with
links to current news and updates and an archive of previous
news, as well as information on Special Research Projects
and other TMP resources:

The Millennium Report:
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/tmr.html

Special Research Projects:
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/srp.html

Main TMP Web Site (frames):
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


In This Report:


SPECIAL RESEARCH PROJECTS

* STS-61 Space Shuttle UFO Footage Information
   Added to Special Research Projects
* Y2K: New Senate Study Predicts Possible
  "Worldwide Crisis"
* Y2K: FAA, State Department Flunk Readiness Test
* Y2K: CIA Predicts Problems Abroad
* Terrorists Could Take Advantage of Y2K
* Canadian Military to Begin Millennium Training Exercises
* Satellite Photo of Possible Contrails in DC Area
* More Mystery Contrails in Arkansas?
* Contrails Over America
* Say, Chicken Little, the Sky is Falling!
* New Radar Anomalies


NEWS AND UPDATES

* Archaeologists Dispute Various Skeptical "Miami Circle"
   Theories
* Aerial Photo of the Miami Circle
* Panoramic Views of the Miami Circle
* Opening the Lost Tombs - Live from Egypt on
   March 2, 1999
* Update on Unknown "Moon Signal"
* Mystery Object Near Earth
* Cosmic Rocks Ganging up on Earth
* Canadian Defense Department on "Alien Alert"
* Dramatic New UFO Footage in Scotland
* New Book to Expose "Military Alien Abductions"
* UFO Roundup 4.9 - March 1, 1999
* Filer's Files #8, 1999
* Alaska Songbirds' Long, Deformed Beaks Mystify
   Biologist

_____________________________


=A9 The Millennium Project, 1999


For further information or correspondence, contact:



Paul Anderson

Founder / Director
THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT
Main Web Site (frames): http://persweb.direct.ca/psa
The Millennium Report: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/tmr.html
Special Research Projects: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/srp.html

Director
CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International
Main Web Site (frames): http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310
1999 Updates: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html

Representative
BLT RESEARCH, INC.

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4
Tel / Fax:  604.731.8522
E-Mail:  psa@direct.ca






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   Mar > Mar 2

                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: "John Ratcliff" <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:32:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:30:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


>Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 17:23:21 -0500
>From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


Michael asked me some of the following questions:

>I am curious as to whether your remarks about Stichin are based
>on any data or is it your own personal opinion?

The only 'data' I can base my remarks upon would be the writings
of Sitchin. Is it my own personal opinion?  Of course, those are
my favorite kind.

>It is my experience that these rational people that you refer to
>are rooted so deep in stories, fables, and organized religion
>that there is not much chance of them accepting the truth let
>alone search for it.

Hmmm.. the 'rational' folks I was referring to were those who
believed in the rules of evidence, logic, the scientific method,
rigorous epstimology applied to sparse datasets.  People who
remain open minded, but not so open minded their brains spill
out.  Those who retain a healthy dose or rational skepticism
regarding all aspects of reality assimilation.

Folks who no more believe in the Easter Bunny than they do in
Jesus Christ or Annuniki.  Belief requires scientific objective
proof.  Belief based on anything less is called faith.  Faith is
an extremely dirty five letter word meaning "To believe in that
which you know not to be true."

Sitchin extrapolates so wildly beyond a hopelessly limited
dataset that it boggles the rational mind.  There is no question
that conjecturing weak and tenuous hypotheses about alien
visitors from the past is entertaining and certainly more
reasonable an assertion than to suggest that Jehovah was in fact
some sort of Universe creating God, as opposed to the petty
genocidal tyrant which is depicted in the Old Testament.

>I have not read all of Stichin's writing but I have read some
>and some of it I like, but I probably am not one of the rational
>people, some years ago I had to break out of that mold and begin
>to look for the truth instead of fairy tales.

And you think Sitchin's writings _are_not_ fairy tales!??

Amazing.

John W. Ratcliff
Xenophobic Warrior Princess





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   Mar > Mar 2

                            Meteosat-3 UFO Photo

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:45:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:45:09 -0500
Subject: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo

From: Adriano Forgione <mbalien@tin.it>
To: <Updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:02:30 +0100


[Non-Subscriber Post]

Dear Sirs,

I'm sending for your own information an astounding case in Italy
which occurred on 3 September, 1993. Please release this
information in your bulletin.

The GOES-8 UFO has a twin in Italy

Following the round shaped object, shot on 17 July 1992 by the
GOES-8 satellite, we have an identical case in Italy. For
clarity purpose, we are enclosing in attachment the image of the
italian case shot on 3 September 1993, from the metereological
satellite Meteosat 3.

On 3 September 1993, at 6.30 PM (8.30 PM UTC), a totally
unexpected event occurred. Mr. Vittorio Orlando, radio ham and a
hobby in metereology, received from Meteosat-3 an image from his
mighty equipment which, at times, was used daily as a
transponder from the Meteosat-4 signal. This signal does not fly
on a European level; it is rather connected on the American
continent, near the Gulf of Mexico.

It is not a Spy Satellite

The picture is bewildering: high above on the left hand side,
where the sky and the bending of the Earth are visible and
nothing should be present, there is an unidentified flying
object, with a lens shape, looking as a geostationary being,
with its main axis parallel to the ground.

Adriano Forgione

Head Journalist of "Notiziario UFO"






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   Mar > Mar 2

                          MJ-12 and Jaime Shandera

From: Jean-Luc Rivera <JLRIV1@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 05:55:22 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:47:58 -0500
Subject: MJ-12 and Jaime Shandera


Hi List members

Since the MJ-12 controversy surfaced there has been a lot of
discussion, including recently, about Bill Moore.

I have always been intrigued by the lack of information about
the second person who was supposedly at the origin of the MJ-12
affair by receiving the original envelope, Jaime Shandera who
popped up on the UFO scene and then maintained a remarkably low
profile.

Does anyone on the list has any bio of him, a list of his
credentials as a TV producer or done any kind of investigation
about him? Thanks a lot.

Jean-Luc Rivera





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   Mar > Mar 2

                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 03:24:12 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:51:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


>From: John Ratcliff <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?
>Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:15:58 -0600

>>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:02:57 -0800
>>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Zecharia Sitchin?

>Josh queried:

>>I'd like to ask a question I've wondered for many years
>>yet never got around to seriously investigating. What do
>>other Sumerian scholars (noted and degreed) feel
>>regarding Zecheriah Sitchin's interpretations of the
>>Sumerian tablets?

>Josh,

>They think what any rational person would think, that Sitchin's
>claims are without merit, represent the worst example of
>'extrapolating wildly beyond a hopelessly limited dataset', and
>don't merit any response.


Thanks John, you made an excellent choice of words to describe
what I have assumed for many years.





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   Mar > Mar 2

             Re: -=[For The Record]=- C-E: Ragsdale Story Video

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:14:11 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:58:08 -0500
Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- C-E: Ragsdale Story Video


>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 18:53:08 -0500
>From: Al Cornett <acorn@MIS.NET>
>Subject: Ragsdale Story Video
>To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM


>The List:

>I need some verification from anyone that has thoroughly
>researched the Jim Ragsdale story.

>A previous post (Fall, 98), discredited the story because of a
>discrepancy concerning hard evidence taken from the crash by
>Ragsdale and his lady friend.

>I have a diffucult time watching his death-bed confession and
>concluding that he fabricated the whole thing. So far, no one
>has given me a detailed reason why he has been discrdited. I've
>always been fascinated with his description of the space carfts
>interior specifically regarding the crystal aspects of the
>"Captain's chair, a ruby chair ...fancy seat", etc. His
>descriptions is compatable with some of Corso's description of
>alien technology and a recent posting (Filer's Files #8)
>concerning a possible abduction of "Anna" from Trumbull Co.,
>Ohio in which she describes similar enterior equipment of a
>spacecraft.

First, Ragsdale's "death bed confession" wasn't. According to
Ragsdale's wife, the last two weeks of his life, he was in and
out of a coma and unable to provide a coherent thought, so the
statement you see does not carry the weight of a death bed
confession.

Second, Ragsdale radically altered his story in the telling.
According to him, at first, he never got close to the craft or
the bodies, and in a third or fourth telling, was trying to pull
the helmets off them.

I have written a long chapter about the Ragsdale case and why it
must now be rejected. Rather than take up bandwidth here, might
I suggest you look up THE RANDLE REPORT and read that chapter.
It will provide you with a detailed list of reasons to reject
the Ragsdale testimony as it stands today.

KRandle





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   Mar > Mar 2

                     'Mothman Prophecies' To Be A Movie

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:32:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:55:34 -0500
Subject: 'Mothman Prophecies' To Be A Movie


Source: http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue98/news.html

---

Richard Gere May Fly With Mothman

Richard Gere is finalizing a deal to star in Lakeshore
Entertainment's upcoming SF film The Mothman Prophecies,
according to The Hollywood Reporter. In separate talks,
One True Thing director Carl Franklin is reportedly close to
reaching an agreement that would see him helm the flick.

Mothman is based on a real-life incident that took place in
Point Pleasant, W.Va., during the 1960s. For several weeks
following a reported UFO sighting, the townspeople of Point
Pleasant allegedly witnessed bizarre phenomena such as psychic
visions and the appearance of strange winged creatures."

---

So who will Gere play? Keel? More on the project (which
seems to be only loosely based on the real events -- "Basically
well-written, the script tells the story of John Klein, whose wife
dies suddenly of a brain tumor, and exactly one year later he
finds himself in the town of Point Pleasant, West Virginia --
even though he'd been heading for a destination hundreds of
miles in another direction. Strange things are happening in Point
Pleasant -- a farmer thinks John has come to his door three
nights in a row, even though John just arrived in town, for
instance. This same man later describes his encounter with
a sort-of human named Indrid Cole who has given him information
on an earthquake -- this premonition comes true. Eventually,
the weight of the weirdness gets to John, who fears he won't
be able to stop a great foreseen tragedy from occurring. He returns
to Georgetown, but is beckoned back to Point Pleasant by his
new love Connie. A twist at the end is intriguing in a Twilight Zone
kind of way, but some might find it predictable and see it coming.
The twist does, however, provide for a visual climactic
effects sequence. The end would be the only significant effects
for the sci-fi project -- the rest of the script is rather
straightforward"), can be found at

        http://www.corona.bc.ca/films/details/mothmanprophecies.html
        http://www.corona.bc.ca/films/details/mothman.html
        http://www.mothmanmovie.com/

A closer look indicates that apparently there are actually two
projects, one of which is a low-budget ($60k), limited
distribution independent film ("Mothman is a Live Action Sci-Fi
Comedy with a touch of horror...filmed on location in Point
Pleasant West Virginia, Redlands California, Fullerton CA.,
Laguna Hills CA., and Mission Viejo CA.") which has finished
shooting and is now in post-production; the other is a larger
budget studio film which is in "Development Hell", and is trying
to sign Gere. It seems neither is going to be terribly faithful
to the book, but I must admit to wondering how this works... did
Keel sell the rights to two companies? Or are they both ripping
off the book and pretending they didn't base it on Keel's work?

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo.htm
------





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   Mar > Mar 2

                        Re: MJ-12 and Jaime Shandera

From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:07:41 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 19:02:34 -0500
Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Jaime Shandera


>From: Jean-Luc Rivera <JLRIV1@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 05:55:22 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: MJ-12 and Jaime Shandera

>Since the MJ-12 controversy surfaced there has been a lot of
>discussion, including recently, about Bill Moore.

>I have always been intrigued by the lack of information about
>the second person who was supposedly at the origin of the MJ-12
>affair by receiving the original envelope, Jaime Shandera who
>popped up on the UFO scene and then maintained a remarkably low
>profile.

I have attempted to contact Jaime Shandera for more than a year
now.

He moved to the East coast and was there the last time he
phoned me. His west coast phone numbers and home address are no
longer valid. I never have seen his biog. ... or met any of his
numerous "inside contacts" in the UFO world.






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                          Re: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:44:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 19:05:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo

>From: Adriano Forgione <mbalien@tin.it>
>To: <Updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:02:30 +0100

>[Non-Subscriber Post]

>Dear Sirs,

>I'm sending for your own information an astounding case in Italy
>which occurred on 3 September, 1993. Please release this
>information in your bulletin.


Hello All,

I think it's a "Forgione" (Forgone) conclusion that we can't make
much of this 'cartoon' that Adriano has submitted! Send original
please!

Peace,

John Velez





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   Mar > Mar 2

                          Re: Tunguska Documentary?

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 15:24:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 19:09:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Tunguska Documentary?


>From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Tunguska Documentary?
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:14:58 -0500

>Second, has anyone seen or heard of a documentary on the
>Tunguska event, you know 1908 an explosion flattens miles of
>Russian trees. I understand there was a documentary made on this
>in the twenties. If anyone has any info I would appreciate if
>you could drop me a line.



This isn't exactly direction to a documentary but it is
interesting documentation regarding Tunguska.

Sue

---

Source: http://pages.prodigy.net/onichelson/tunguska.htm#N_27_

1908: Tesla repeated the idea of destruction by electrical waves
to the newspaper on April 21st. His letter to the editor stated,
"When I spoke of future warfare I meant that it should be
conducted by direct application of electrical waves without the
use of aerial engines or other implements of destruction." He
added: "This is not a dream. Even now wireless power plants
could be constructed by which any region of the globe might be
rendered uninhabitable without subjecting the population of
other parts to serious danger or inconvenience."(27)

In the period from 1900 to 1910 Tesla's creative thrust was to
establish his plan for wireless transmission of energy. Undercut
by Marconi's accomplishment, beset by financial problems, and
spurned by the scientific establishment, Tesla was in a
desperate situation by mid-decade. The strain became too great
by 1906-1907 and, according to Tesla biographers, he suffered an
emotional collapse.(28),(29)  In order to make a final effort to
have his grand scheme recognized, he may have tried one high
power test of his transmitter to show off its destructive
potential. This would have been in 1908.

The Tunguska event took place on the morning of June 30th, 1908.
An explosion estimated to be equivalent to 10-15 megatons of TNT
flattened 500,000 acres of pine forest near the Stony Tunguska
River in central Siberia. Whole herds of reindeer were
destroyed. Several nomadic villages were reported to have
vanished. The explosion was heard over a radius of 620 miles.
When an expedition was made to the area in 1927 to find evidence
of the meteorite presumed to have caused the blast, no impact
crater was found. When the ground was drilled for pieces of
nickel, iron, or stone, the main constituents of meteorites,
none were found down to a depth of 118 feet.

Several explanations have been given for the Tunguska event. The
officially accepted version is that a 100,000 ton fragment of
Encke's Comet, composed mainly of dust and ice, entered the
atmosphere at 62,000 mph, heated up, and exploded over the
earth's surface creating a fireball and shock wave but no
crater. Alternative explanations of the disaster include a
renegade mini-black hole or an alien space ship crashing into
the earth with the resulting release of energy.

Associating Tesla with the Tunguska event comes close to putting
the inventor's power transmission idea in the same speculative
category as ancient astronauts. However, historical facts point
to the possibility that this event was caused by a test firing
of Tesla's energy weapon.

In 1907 and 1908, Tesla wrote about the destructive effects of
his energy transmitter. His Wardenclyffe facility was much
larger than the Colorado Springs device that destroyed the power
station's generator. Then, in 1915, he stated bluntly:

It is perfectly practical to transmit electrical energy without
wires and produce destructive effects at a distance. I have
already constructed a wireless transmitter which makes this
possible. ... But when unavoidable [it] may be used to destroy
property and life. The art is already so far developed that the
great destructive effects can be produced at any point on the
globe, defined beforehand with great accuracy (emphasis
added).(30)

He seems to confess to such a test having taken place before
1915, and, though the evidence is circumstantial, Tesla had the
motive and the means to cause the Tunguska event. His
transmitter could generate energy levels and frequencies capable
of releasing the destructive force of 10 megatons, or more, of
TNT. And the overlooked genius was desperate.

The nature of the Tunguska event, also, is consistent with what
would happen during the sudden release of wireless power. No
fiery object was reported in the skies at that time by
professional or amateur astronomers as would be expected when a
200,000,000 pound object enters the atmosphere at tens of
thousands miles an hour. Also, the first reporters, from the
town of Tomsk, to reach the area judged the stories about a body
falling from the sky was the result of the imagination of an
impressionable people. He noted there was considerable noise
coming from the explosion, but no stones fell. The absence of an
impact crater can be explained by there having been no material
body to impact. An explosion caused by broadcast power would not
leave a crater.

In contrast to the ice comet collision theory, reports of upper
atmosphere and magnetic disturbances coming from other parts of
the world at the time of and just after the Tunguska event point
to massive changes in earth's electrical condition. Baxter and
Atkins cite in their study of the explosion, The Fire Came By,
that the Times of London editorialized about "slight, but
plainly marked, disturbances of ... magnets," which the writer,
not knowing then of the explosion, associated with solar
prominences.(31)

In Berlin, the New York Times of July 3rd reported unusual
colors in the evening skies thought to be Northern Lights:
"Remarkable lights were observed in the northern heavens ...
bright diffused white and yellow illumination continuing through
the night until it disappears at dawn."(32)  Massive glowing
"silvery clouds" covered Siberia and northern Europe. A
scientist in Holland told of an "undulating mass" moving across
the northwest horizon. It seemed to him not to be a cloud, but
the "sky itself seemed to undulate." A woman north of London
wrote the London Times that on midnight of July 1st the sky
glowed so brightly it was possible to read large print inside
her house.  A meteorological observer in England recounted on
the nights of June 30th and July 1st:

A strong orange yellow light became visible in the north and
northeast... causing an undue prolongation of twilight lasting
to daybreak on July 1st...There was a complete absence of
scintillation or flickering, and no tendency for the formation
of streamers, or a luminous arch, characteristic of auroral
phenomena...Twilight on both of these night was prolonged to
daybreak, and there was no real darkness.(33)

The report that most closely ties these strange cosmic
happenings with Tesla's power transmission scheme is that while
the sky was aglow with this eerie light it was possible to
clearly see ships at sea for miles in the middle of the
night.(34) Tesla specifically claimed this as one of the effects
he could achieve with his high power transmitter. Of particular
importance is that none of his claims for lighting the ocean
appeared before 1908.(35)

A typical statement about the light induced by his transmitter
is this from the New York American of December 7th, 1914:

The lighting of the ocean ... is only one of the less important
results to be achieved by the use of this invention [the
transmitter]. I have planned many of the details of a plant
which might be erected at the Azores and which would be amply
sufficient to illuminate the entire ocean so that such a
disaster as that of the Titanic would not be repeated. The light
would be soft and of very small intensity, but quite adequate to
the purpose.(36)

When Tesla used his high power transmitter as a directed energy
weapon he drastically altered the normal electrical condition of
the earth. By making the electrical charge of the planet vibrate
in tune with his transmitter he was able to build up electric
fields that effected compasses and caused the upper atmosphere
to behave like the gas filled lamps in his laboratory. He had
turned the entire globe into a simple electrical component that
he could control.

Given Tesla's general pacifistic nature it is hard to understand
why he would carry out a test harmful to both animals and the
people who herded the animals even when he was in the grip of
financial desperation. The answer is that he probably intended
no harm, but was aiming for a publicity coup and, literally,
missed his target.

At the end of 1908, the whole world was following the daring
attempt of Peary to reach the North Pole which he claimed in the
Spring of 1909. If Tesla wanted the attention of the
international press, few things would have been more impressive
than the Peary expedition sending out word of a cataclysmic
explosion on the ice near or at the North Pole.(37) Tesla, then,
if he could not be hailed as the master creator that he was,
could be seen as the master of a mysterious new force of
destruction.

The test, it seems, was not a complete success. It must have
been difficult controlling the vast amount of power in
transmitter to the exact spot Tesla intended. The North Pole
lies close to a great circle line connecting Shoreham, Long
Island and the Tunguska region. That path passes close by Alert
on Ellesmere Island where Peary spent the winter.(38) The
uninhabited region between Alert and the North Pole might have
been the intended target for a test firing of the wireless
transmission system. However, "the accepted terrestrial
measurements" of that day were not precise enough for the task.
The destructive electrical wave overshot its target.

Whoever was privy to Tesla's energy weapon demonstration must
have been dismayed either because it missed the intended target
and would be a threat to inhabited regions of the planet, or
because it worked too well in devastating such a large area at
the mere throwing of a switch thousands of miles away. Whatever
was the case, Tesla never received the notoriety he sought for
his power transmitter.

The evidence is only circumstantial. Perhaps Tesla never did
achieve wireless power transmission through the earth. Maybe he
made a mistake in interpreting the results of his radio tests in
Colorado Springs and really saw a low frequency phenomenon,
Schumann oscillations, and not an effect engineers believe a
scientific impossibility. Perhaps the mental stress he suffered
caused him to retreat into a fantasy world from which he would
send out preposterous claims to reporters who gathered for his
yearly pronouncements on his birthday. Maybe the atomic bomb
size explosion in Siberia near the turn of the century was the
result of a meteorite nobody saw fall.

Or, perhaps, Nikola Tesla did shake the world in a way that has
been kept secret for over 85 years.

27. Tesla, Nikola, New York Times, "Mr. Tesla's Vision," April
21, 1908, pg. 5.

28. Seifer, Marc J., "Nikola Tesla: The Lost Wizard," Tesla '84:
Proceedings of the Tesla Centennial Symposium, op. cit., pgs.
31-40. Seifer, a psychologist, believes Tesla suffered a nervous
breakdown catalyzed by the death of one the partners in the
Tesla Electric Company and the shooting of Stanford White, the
noted architect, who had designed Wardenclyffe. Seifer places
this in 1906 and cites as evidence a letter from George Scherff,
Tesla's secretary:

     Wardenclyffe, 4/10/1906

     Dear Mr. Tesla:

     I have received your letter and am glad to know you are
vanquishing your illness. I have scarcely ever seen you so out
of sorts as last Sunday; and I was frightened.

29. Cheney, Margaret, Tesla: Man out of Time, Dell Publishing
Co., N.Y., 1983, pg. 187. Cheney sees a mental change taking
place about 1907. Having lost most of his money and many of his
friends and seeing less talented people praised for achievements
based on his inventions "exerted a corrosive and lasting effect
on his personality."

30. Tesla, Nikola, "Tesla's New Device Like Bolts of Thor," New
York Times, Dec. 8, 1915, pg. 8.

31. Baxter, John and Atkins, Thomas, The Fire Came By, Warner
Books, N.Y., 1977, pg. 27.

32. Note 30, pg. 26.

33. Spenser Russell quoted in Baxter and Atkins, The Fire Came
By, page 28, from the Royal Meteorological Society Quarterly,
1930.

34. Note 30.

35. The earliest mention of lighting the ocean appears to have
been in 1911 in a N.Y. Americanarticle (Sept. 3rd by Marcel
Roland). Ratzlaff, John and Anderson, Leland, Dr. Nikola Tesla
Bibliography, Ragusan Press, 1979, pg. 93.

36. New York American, "Tesla Light to Rob Oceans of Every
Danger," Dec. 7, 1914, no pg.

37. Tesla suggested a similar test of his power transmission
system aimed at the moon where everyone could see "the splash
and volitization of matter." See note 19, pg. 255.

38. Bayshore, L.I. is at 40 N 43, 73 W 13; Alert, Canada
(Ellesmere Island) 82 N 31, 62 W 05, and Tunguska at 60 N 55,
101 E 57.

EOF





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   Mar > Mar 2

                   'UFO Landing' Reported In Cheshire, UK

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:29:12 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 19:11:47 -0500
Subject: 'UFO Landing' Reported In Cheshire, UK


The British UFO Studies Centre (BUFOSC) and Lancashire UFO
Society, under the direction of UFO investigator Eric Morris,
are looking into reports of a 'UFO landing' event said by
several witnesses to have taken place on Sunday night/Monday
morning (28th Feb/1st March 1999) in an area near Knutsford in
Cheshire, England.

Witnesses report anomalous lights in the area and claim to have
seen red and white lights descending very slowly into a nearby
wood whereupon the objects were said to have behaved 'as if
under intelligent control'. Neither local authorities, Police,
Fire Brigade or Air Traffic Control at Manchester International
Airport can shed and light on these unusual events and a
thorough search of the area by a BUFOSC team yesterday (2nd
March) and today (3rd March) has discovered some interesting
things including;

1 - Ground traces in the form of burn marks and scorching -
possibly associated with the lights reported.

2 - An unusual patterning in the surrounding bracken suggesting
that it has been pushed down or "squashed" by something - this
over an area of nearly 60 metres.

3 - Evidence of tree damage and disturbance to local wildlife.

BUFOSC investigators have taken many soil samples and similar
evidence from the scene and it is intended that these should be
analyzed professionally.

Military monitors and aviation experts associated with BUFOSC
have not, as yet, reported any unusual military activity in the
area within the specified time frame and nobody has come forward
to suggest military aircraft as a possible cause of the UFO
reports. The area in question lies on the outer perimeter of the
TMA associated with aircraft operations at Manchester Airport
and it is also highly unlikely, but not impossible, that
civilian aircraft are responsible.

BUFOSC has carried out local house-to-house enquries with little
success although it is likely that there were other witnesses to
these events. A UFO report from Birmingham came in yesterday as
a result of a long standing arrangement whereby sightings are
passed on by Birmingham Airport to BUFOSC. UFO  reports from the
Lancashire Coast have also been made to the Lancashire UFO
Society in recent days.

Eric Morris believes that this incident is of the greatest
potential significance and has already given detailed interviews
and information to local newspapers.

This is a joint LUFOS/BUFOSC enquiry.

For further information please contact the British UFO Studies
Centre as follows;

Eric Morris, 78 Greenall Rd, Northwich, Cheshire CW9 5RN.
Tel; (01606) 330567
Pager; (01523) 160249

Email; bufosc@compuserve.com





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                   1998 Canadian UFO Survey - Press Notice

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 19:48:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 19:48:36 -0500
Subject: 1998 Canadian UFO Survey - Press Notice




The Amazing Rutkowski Strikes Again -

with yet another annual Canadian UFO Survey.

ebk

Source: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/7998/


1998 Canadian UFO Survey - Press Notice

2 March 1999

Canadians reported nearly 200 UFOs in 1998

An analysis of 194 UFO sightings reported officially in Canada
during 1998 shows that Canadians continue to see many strange
things flying in the sky.

Ufology Research of Manitoba, working in cooperation with
researchers across Canada, has released its review of 1998
Canadian UFO cases reported to private and public UFO
organizations.

"UFO sightings continue to be reported at a fairly constant
rate," says Chris Rutkowski, an astronomer and science writer in
Winnipeg who for the past 25 years has been studying UFO reports
in Canada. "People still report observing unusual objects in the
sky, and some of these objects do not have obvious
explanations."

According to the study: the typical UFO sighting occurs after
10:00 p.m., most sightings have two witnesses, and many
witnesses are pilots, police and other individuals with
reasonably good observing capabilities and good judgement.

This year, the study found there was an unexplained increase in
the number of UFO reports from the Northwest Territories and
Yukon. In addition, researchers found that most UFOs in Canada
were reported in the fall than at any other time of year.

"We're not sure why there were some odd differences in the
patterns of UFO reports last year," says Rutkowski, "but 1998
was definitely not like any other year during the past 10 years
of this study."

While most cases involve starlike objects in the night sky, some
witnesses described disc-shaped or triangular objects at close
range. Although most cases had explanations, a small percentage
were not that easy to dismiss.

"We were still left with some cases that were relatively
well-investigated and involved unusual objects that did not seem
to have been airplanes, balloons or stars," Rutkowski notes.
"Although there is no incontrovertible evidence that some UFOs
are alien spaceships as popularized in the media, the continued
reporting of UFOs leads us to recommend more studies of the
phenomenon by social, medical and/or physical scientists."

Among the 22 cases listed as "Unknowns" this year:

a black triangular object flying low over a truck driver on the
Hope-Princeton Highway;

a V-shaped object which affected electrical devices in Bancroft,
Ontario;

a softball-sized, metallic object hovering over a witness near
Emerald Lake, Yukon; and a copper-coloured cigar-shaped object
which flew over some campers near Blainville, Quebec.


For more information, and for information on regional
commentators, contact:

Chris Rutkowski
Ufology Research of Manitoba
E-mail: rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca
Voice: 204-269-7553

The report isavailable in its entirety on the Web at:






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   Mar > Mar 2

                          Re: Tunguska Documentary?

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:49:39 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 20:06:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Tunguska Documentary?


>From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Tunguska Documentary?
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:14:58 -0500

[...]

>Second, has anyone seen or heard of a documentary on the
>Tunguska event, you know 1908 an explosion flattens miles of
>Russian trees. I understand there was a documentary made on this
>in the twenties. If anyone has any info I would appreciate if
>you could drop me a line.

[...]

Paul,

Although this is not what you asked for, it may be of interest
to mention that last summer there was a Tunguska-90
International Scientific Conference convened right close to the
actual site. A brief summary article on it is given in EOS
(Transactions of the American Geophysical Union), issue of 23
Feb 1999. One item of interest is that unusual isotopic
compositions of C and H are reported as having been found in the
peat there, and the article mentioned that these might be
associated with comets. However, that might be another way of
saying that the isotopic ratios were not of earthly origin.

Also mentioned were that the azimuth of the trajectory of the
object changed during flight, and that the data from the event
showing up in the geomagnetic storm records were indicative of a
nuclear explosion rather than of an ordinary meteor.

Perhaps of most interest for this list, however, is that the
article mentioned in passing that "Several exotic reports,
including one hypothesizing UFOs and another suggesting the
action of still unknown physical fields, also were presented."
Of interest here is that the EOS editor made no attempt to
inject any note of ridicule or sarcasm regarding this sentence
of the text. The text was written by three Russian scientists.

Jim Deardorff





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                          Re: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo

From: Fabrizio Monaco <F.Monaco@stm.it>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:28:39 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 20:04:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo


Hello researchers,

Regarding the Italian meteosat-3 case.

Adriano knows that I have worked for the Italian meteorological
service.

I have seen many photo taken from meteosat-3 but this is a very
interesting: this is an infrared photo, you know that IR photo
gives different colours depending on the temperature, so the
object seems to be warmer on the top and colder on the bottom.

It could mean that this is a physical object and not some kind
of light reflection. if you compare the colours with you will
see that it is very similar to the sea colour, so we can think
that the temperature was also the same.

I am trying to retrieve the original photo from the military
archive but it is not so simple because they have not a large
archive and this is an "old" picture.

I think in the next week I can write something more about this
because I will talk to my ex-colleagues in the meteorolgical
services in italy to try to get further information about this.

Best regards,

Fabrizio Monaco





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   Mar > Mar 2

                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 18:49:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 20:15:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


>From: "John Ratcliff" <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:32:11 -0600

John,

I appreciate the answer to my question, I really liked it.

I have learned a lot from being on this List, and I am glad one
can ask questions here. I have come to realize that there are a
lot of good people here looking for answers just like myself,
some more scientific than me, but I'm learning.

Thanks again for the answers.

Michael Hodges






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   Mar > Mar 3

                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:22:11 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 07:17:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin


>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net)
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:32:11 -0600
>From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net

>Michael asked me some of the following questions:
>I am curious as to whether your remarks about Stichin are based
>on any data or is it your own personal opinion?

>>From: "John Ratcliff" <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?
>>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:32:11 -0600

>>only 'data' I can base my remarks upon would be the writings
>>of Sitchin. Is it my own personal opinion?  Of course, those are
>>my favorite kind.

>>Hmmm.. the 'rational' folks I was referring to were those who
>>believed in the rules of evidence, logic, the scientific method,
>>rigorous epstimology applied to sparse datasets.

Now boys, you too Larry Hatch.....let's not get too hasty here
with good old Zacharia Sitchin's theories. Let's go back some
years ago to the "Shiva Theory". This name was proposed by
Harlan Smith of the University of Texas at Austin and Stephen
Jay Gould of Harvard. If you recall this involves the theory of
mass extinctions on a periodic level and includes the following:

"The most likely explaination of what drives the comets toward
the earth's region of the solar system is  "Nemesis" - a
companion star to the sun, named after the Greek goddess of
divine justice"

"The Nemesis star would be less massive and much less luminous
than our sun and would  move in an elongated orbit around the
center of mass of the Solar System."

Now granted we are talking about something like another sun, but
its not so far fetched to have a body traveling in an elongated
orbit. As some of you might know, most of the time I have that
skeptic wall in front of me on all issues but have recently
realized we know so little about how the universe really works.
Everything seems to be theory so with that, I guess we can
always have an open mind to "anything is possible".

Dr. Donald Goldsmith wrote a book about this in the late 60's.
He is also the author of  The Evolving Universe. Just a thought.

Kathleen Andersen
MUFON State Section Director
Seattle






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              Christian Science Monitor on NBC's 'Confirmation

From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 20:31:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 07:22:18 -0500
Subject: Christian Science Monitor on NBC's 'Confirmation


http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/1999/03/01/fp8s2-csm.shtml

Christian Science Monitor
Monday, March 1, 1999

THE MONITOR'S VIEW

Alien to Science

By happenstance rather than plan, we recently watched a segment
of a two-hour network special. Title: "Confirmation: The Hard
Evidence of Aliens Among Us?" Generally, we prefer to ignore
charlatans forecasting the decline and fall of American
civilization, the coming stock market crash, Y2K armageddon, and
other approximations of the end of the world. But this
particular show struck a chord of dismay.

Not dismay that space aliens are here on the street and at the
supermarket alongside Elvis. But dismay that a TV network owned
by General Electric - one of the world's leading corporations
based on science, technology, and financial savvy - should be
serving up such fallacious pseudo-science to a citizenry whose
science literacy is in decline and certainly doesn't need a
further push downward from a hokey docudrama.

Ok, Orson Welles did a 1938 radio dramatization of an alien
Earth invasion. But at least he let on that he was staging H.G.
Wells's fictional "War of the Worlds." On the Feb. 17 show
viewers had to see through fake "hard evidence" including so
much grainy and eerie film that one would think video camera
work was in its infancy.

Like most of humanity, we're enthusiastic about our planet's
space programs. Pictures transmitted back from probes of Mars,
Venus, Saturn, etc., are extraordinarily fascinating. They
represent major achievements in human history. And we join in
the hope that SETI and other astronomical searches will turn up
evidence of life elsewhere in the universe. But, please, don't
undermine such genuine scientific effort with pseudo-science
gimcrackery.






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                           Nick Pope's Weird World

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 04:50:01 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 07:42:39 -0500
Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World


NICK POPE=92S WEIRD WORLD
HOT GOSSIP UK MAGAZINE MARCH 1999

This month I won=92t simply be reporting news from the wacky world
of ufology - I=92ll be explaining how I was in the news myself -
plastered all over page 3 of The Sunday Times. But first, here
are a few other stories you may have missed. As usual, some of
them are serious, some are humorous, and others... well, they=92re
just weird!

We Are Stardust

On 7th February the Stardust mission blasted off from Cape
Canaveral. It=92s aim is to rendezvous with Comet Wild-2 in 2004,
taking a sample of material from its tail. This will arrive back
on Earth in 2006, where it will be analysed by scientists hoping
to find proof that comets contain organic material that might
originally have seeded life here on Earth. It=92s funny to think
that when the astronomer Sir Fred Hoyle raised this possibility
in 1974 he was scoffed at by the scientific establishment. I=92m
sure he=92s absolutely delighted to see that this once
unfashionable theory has spawned a $200 million space mission.
Funny how things turn out sometimes, isn=92t it?

NASA Antigravity Research

It sounds like science fiction, or the sort of nonsense often
found in some of the more bizarre UFO sites on the Internet, but
NASA have awarded a $600,000 contract to a company to carry out
research into antigravity. This fascinating story was broken in
the 6th February edition of New Scientist, which is not prone to
flights of fancy. The research is aimed at seeing whether there
is any truth in the theory that a rapidly spinning,
superconducting disc will lose some of its weight. The theory
was first proposed by the Russian scientist E E Podkletnov, but
was dismissed as nonsense by most other scientists. The contract
has been awarded to an Ohio-based company, Superconductive
Components, and although initial results are negative, the
experiments will continue. Of course, none of this implies any
corporate NASA belief in antigravity, but this is one of those
examples of a situation where it=92s worth taking the risk. If it
doesn=92t work, all you lose is a few hundred thousand dollars.
But if it does, you revolutionise the space programme, and make
billions. New Scientist=92s web-site is www.newscientist.com.

Blast From The Past

In last month=92s column I started a regular feature in which I=92ll
pick out a UFO book and highlight a quote. This month I=92m
picking one of the most bizarre UFO books of all time, Secret
Vows by Denise and Bert Twiggs. It=92s a story of alien abductions
and wife-swapping, and a vast alien mothership which comes
complete with a shopping mall and a service station. The aliens
- known as Andromes - are considerate though, and during the
abductions supply a babysitter, so that the kids aren=92t left
alone. I was hard pushed to pick out the most amazing quote from
this truly bizarre book, from chapters whose titles include
'Passenger in my Womb' and 'ETs on my Couch' but have selected
this one:

"There were a few times when we were permitted to bring our own
animals up to the mother ship. Our dogs really seemed to enjoy
these trips, although they weren=92t allowed to run around as much
as the Androme animals are allowed to do."

It=92s All one Big Conspiracy

Conspiracy theorists often allege that the world is really
controlled by a handful of sinister organisations that are
aiming for world domination. One favourite target was mentioned
in parliament on 4th February, in the following House of Lords
written Parliamentary Question:

Lord Kennet asked Her Majesty=92s Government:

What are the composition status of the Trilateral Commission;
why Secretary-General Solana of NATO meets with it; why its
activities are secret; and in particular why its meetings with
Mr Solana are secret.

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: The Trilateral Commission is a
non-governmental organisation whose members are private citizens
from North America, Europe and Japan. These questions should
best be addressed to the Commission. It=92s web-site is

<<http://www.trilateral.org/moreinfo/about.htm>>


I Heard A Rumour

Ufology abounds with false rumours, some of which are genuine
mistakes, while others are down to poor research or outright
lies. Here are some of the more bizarre ones doing the rounds at
the moment:

My brother works for Naval Intelligence - Nope. This was a
throwaway line in an Internet post from one of ufology=92s saddest
"anoraks". I don=92t know where he picked it up from, but my
brother and I found it hilarious. My brother=92s a shoemaker and
an Alternative Comedian. The anorak is talking cobblers, and is
just a joke!

A UFO shot down an RAF jet in March 1997 - Er, no. This one
seems to turn on somebody seeing a man staggering down a road,
with his clothes smelling of fuel. Was this the RAF pilot, in a
disorientated state after his close encounter? No, probably just
a mechanic who=92d been to the pub.

Tim Matthews works for MI5 - I suspect he secretly likes this
rumour, as it gives him an air of mystery, and implies that he=92s
got inside information. But the more he says, the clearer it
becomes to everybody that he has no inside information
whatsoever. MI5 wouldn=92t touch him with a bargepole.

I got paid =A31000 for a UFO Magazine lecture - I wish. Graham
Birdsall has already explained that this was made-up nonsense
spouted by someone who hadn=92t checked their facts.

Men in Black shot at Matthew Williams and Richard Conway - If
only. Allegedly happened after they broke into a secret
underground base. On one occasion I understand that civilian
security guards chased the naughty little boys off a
long-decommissioned storage depot. Sinister, huh?

Alien Base

Timothy Good=92s latest book, Alien Base, is now out in paperback,
published by Arrow Books and retailing at =A36.99. This intriguing
book steps behind tabloid hype about abduction and the Greys,
and looks at a wealth of fascinating alien contact cases.This is
controversial stuff, and the material on the out-of-favour
contactees has aroused some adverse comment. But claims of alien
contact are more varied than many people would realise from
reading much of the modern literature, and this well-written
book, packed with raw data, spotlights this diversity.

Per Ardua Ad Astra

People who are sceptical about the possibility of aliens
visiting the Earth are often unaware that four of our space
probes have already left the solar system. So if we can do it =85
so can they! Admittedly, there=92s a long way to go before we have
viable interstellar travel, but given that we=92ve come from horse
and cart to stealth fighter and space probe in around two
hundred years, it=92s not too difficult to imagine. Somebody who
clearly agrees is Stephanie D. Leifer, manager of advanced
propulsion concepts at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in
Pasadena. In an article that appeared in February=92s edition of
Scientific American she explains how serious scientific thought
is now being given to interstellar travel. Writing about fusion
and antimatter propulsion she says "For these will be the
technologies with which humanity will finally and truly reach
for the stars."

Scientific American=92s web-site is www.sciam.com.

Open Skies, Closed Minds

American readers of this column might like to know that my first
book, Open Skies, Closed Minds, will be available in the USA
from 1st March. It=92s published by The Overlook Press, who have
already published my book on alien abductions, The Uninvited. US
ufologists have been bemused by a vitriolic hate campaign
conducted against me by Internet anoraks who have been trying to
make a name for themselves by having a go at me. I=92ve been
portrayed as a sinister figure involved in a government campaign
to acclimatise the public to an extraterrestrial presence, or as
a junior official being manipulated by powerful forces behind
the scenes. In fact, neither of these theories is true. I=92m a
middle-ranking official in the Ministry of Defence, who happened
to have been given what I suppose might be regarded as the most
interesting job in the country - researching and investigating
UFOs for the British Government, in Sec(AS)2a - the UK
equivalent of Project Blue Book. As far as I know, I=92m the only
person apart from Edward Ruppelt and Dr J Allen Hynek who has
gone public with information based on official government UFO
research.  Open Skies, Closed Minds is packed with cases, some
involving members of the public, but some involving the
military. The Internet spammers and UFO anoraks may talk the
talk =85 but I=92ve walked the walk.

Total Eclipse

The total eclipse visible from Mexico on 11th July 1991 led to
numerous reports of UFOs - see, for example, chapter one of
Whitley Strieber=92s latest book, Confirmation. This year sees a
total eclipse in the UK, visible from parts of south Devon and
Cornwall. Will there be UFO sightings there? Who can say. But
either way, it=92ll be a sight worth seeing, and I=92ve already
sorted out my accommodation, as I=92ll be staying with my brother.
Seb=92s looking forward to the spectacle too, and is just hoping
that his naval duties don=92t prevent him taking leave on the date
concerned. The eclipse is on 11th August. Check out
www.eclipse.org.uk for details.

The Oxford Union Debate

On Thursday 28th January the Oxford Union held a debate on the
motion "This house believes that we are not alone". I spoke in
favour of the motion, as did local ufologist Michael Soper.
Science writer Ian Ridpath and ufologist Peter Brookesmith
opposed the motion. The debate was interesting and at times
lively, and a number of students were also involved in speaking
for or against the motion. In the end, the motion was carried by
290 votes to 191. It isn=92t the first time the UFO issue has been
discussed at the Oxford Union; Stanton Friedman and Harry Harris
took part in a similar debate on 25th October 1995, proposing
the motion that "This house believes that intelligent alien life
has visited the planet Earth". They won too.

The Uninvited

If this column goes up on 1st March as scheduled, if American
readers get this message in time, and if the TV schedules
haven=92t been altered again, The Learning Channel are showing the
documentary version of my book, The Uninvited, on Monday 1st
March. Possibly the most comprehensive documentary on alien
abductions ever made, it features interviews with leading
researchers and abductees, together with lots of new material,
and a few surprises. I was the consultant on the programme,
which was made by Transmedia Productions. Sky One will be
showing the programme in the UK later this year.


Return of the Anoraks

Let me state first of all that I have never, ever seen an alien.
Clear on that? OK, let=92s take that as our starting point for
this next story. On 7th February The Sunday Times ran a big
story on page 3 of the main news section. UFO hunter at MoD
=91kidnapped by aliens=92 was the headline. They were referring to
me, and the story provoked a flood of debate on the Internet,
with a number of characters falling over themselves to get in on
the act, and get some publicity off the back of the story. This
went on for days, despite the intervention of serious figures
such as Jerome Clark, who suggested that certain people should
grow up and give it a rest.

So what=92s this story about? Chapter 12 of The Uninvited, my book
on alien abductions, tells the story of a man I refer to as
Peter. That=92s a pseudonym, because he doesn=92t want to go public.
Certain ufologists say Peter is actually me. They demand that I
respond to these allegations, or debate the whole affair with
them - as if I was somehow accountable to them! They say that if
Peter is me, then as the experience took place in January 1991,
I couldn=92t have been a sceptic when I began my official UFO
research at the Ministry of Defence a few months later. Had
these people checked the raw data, instead of relying upon the
newspaper story, they would have realised this was nonsense.
Why? Because at the bottom of page 197 of The Uninvited it makes
it clear that Peter=92s hypnotic regression took place in 1995 - a
year after I=92d left Sec(AS)2a. Furthermore, Peter=92s only memory
of the event prior to 1995 was a recollection of mysteriously
getting from one part of the road to another whilst driving home
- a memory which faded from his conscious mind in the next few
months. No UFOs. No aliens. And contrary to what the anoraks
allege, Peter does not even now believe he is an abductee, and
is careful to caveat memories that emerged under regression
hypnosis.

So, what was my response to all this? Am I really Peter? Well, I
have a strict policy of not discussing my personal life with
anyone in ufology, on the basis that there are some pretty weird
characters out there, some of whom seriously believe that I=92m
one of the key players in a conspiracy to keep the truth about
UFOs from the public. I don=92t want these sorts of people turning
up on the doorsteps of family and friends, so I=92ve refused to
comment on Peter=92s identity. Contrary to some of the lies that
have peddled on the Internet, I have never denied the allegation
that I am Peter. I have never confirmed it either. This policy
will not change.

So how did ufology emerge from this whole affair? Not very well,
I=92m sorry to say. Jenny Randles is claiming that details about
Peter=92s true identity were in a rough first draft of Open Skies,
Closed Minds, which was shown to her by one of the publishers
originally invited to bid for the manuscript. If true, this
seems to me to be a decidedly unprofessional thing for a
publisher to have done. But that would pale into insignificance
when set against the idea that Jenny Randles would subsequently
leak details from this manuscript, and tell another ufologist
details about the identity of a witnesses, when she knew the
witness didn=92t want their identity revealed. But this is
precisely what Andy Roberts claimed happened, and if Andy
believes this story, then he too is speculating on the identity
of a witness who he knows full well doesn=92t want to discuss the
affair. Sorry, but even if I was Peter, there can be no
exceptions to witness confidentiality. Any serious ufologist
should know this.

I happened to be with an abductee when The Sunday Times story
broke (you know, actually investigating a case - something the
anoraks seem to have forgotten how to do, now they=92re too busy
bitching at me all the time). What do you suppose this abductee
thought of the whole affair, and the implication that ufologists
were leaking details about witnesses against their wishes? Well,
I=92ll tell you, because her views should be listened to by anyone
with the slightest pretension of doing proper UFO research. She
said that many people who had strange experiences spoke out only
on the understanding that their identities would be protected.
She was absolutely disgusted by the behaviour of certain
ufologists who seemed to be openly boasting about breaking
witness confidentiality. She predicted that if witnesses started
to think that ufologists would reveal their identities when
they=92d specifically requested anonymity, then guess what? They=92d
keep silent, and ufologists wouldn=92t have anything to study.

That=92s it. That=92s my side of the story, and that=92s all I=92m going
to say, ever. So please, no obsessive picking over every little
phrase, looking for hidden meaning, and no nerdy analysis of
every last word I=92ve written, looking for sarcastic little
debating points to score. Instead, try a radical concept, like
investigating a UFO sighting. Or is that a bit too tricky?

Nick Pope
London March 1999

Ed=92s Note:

Nick Pope=92s two books, Open Skies, Closed Minds and The
Uninvited, are available from all good bookshops. Simon &
Schuster are his UK publishers, while The Overlook Press publish
his books in America.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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Permission to distribute this information on the Internet is
granted providing the authors and Hot Gossip UK are
credited. Photographs may be copyright, and cannot be
published without permission. Hot Gossip UK
www.hotgossip.co.uk
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Editor in chief of Hot Gossip UK magazine
E-mail: georgina@easynet.co.uk
E-mail: 104707.336@compuserve.com
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   Mar > Mar 3

                          Re: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:04:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 07:45:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo

>From: Fabrizio Monaco <F.Monaco@stm.it>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:28:39 +0100

>I have seen many photo taken from meteosat-3 but this is a very
>interesting: this is an infrared photo, you know that IR photo
>gives different colours depending on the temperature, so the
>object seems to be warmer on the top and colder on the bottom.

>It could mean that this is a physical object and not some kind
>of light reflection. if you compare the colours with you will
>see that it is very similar to the sea colour, so we can think
>that the temperature was also the same.

In regard to this image, and assuming it is not simply a digital
fake, it is essential to investigate the possibility that some
form of digital drop-out or processing error may be responsible.

Alternatively, internal reflections or other sources of
instrumental error must be examined.

I spent some time with the GOES-8 photo and it was quite clear
that it was a result of a data drop-out during transmission. It
is likely that there is a similar explanation for this image.

It is easy to launch into rampant speculation about temperature,
size, and altitude. It is another thing to be able to support
that.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo.htm
------






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   Mar > Mar 3

                          Re: Tunguska Documentary?

From: Sandy Gudaitis <nvmufon@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 22:57:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 08:02:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Tunguska Documentary?


>From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Tunguska Documentary?
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:14:58 -0500

>Hi all...

>First a big thank you to Errol and all who make this list
>happen. I don't comment much here but just want to say thank
>you.

>Second, has anyone seen or heard of a documentary on the
>Tunguska event, you know 1908 an explosion flattens miles of
>Russian trees. I understand there was a documentary made on this
>in the twenties. If anyone has any info I would appreciate if
>you could drop me a line.


Hi Paul,

We have a documentary tape called:  Tunguska, The Russian Roswell

It's from UFO Central Home Video
email: ufocentral@aol.com

If you need more info don't hesitate to contact me.

Sandy G.
Las Vegas
nvmufon@ix.netcom.com








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   Mar > Mar 3

                         Dorothy Kilgallen Autoposy

From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 05:51:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 08:47:15 -0500
Subject: Dorothy Kilgallen Autoposy


Does anyone have a copy of Dorothy Kilgallens autoposy report?
or does anyone know of any other researchers who have
investigated her mysterious death?

Thanks, Tony






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                  Re: Peruvians Say "Aliens Enhanced Baths"

From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:28:43 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 09:09:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Peruvians Say "Aliens Enhanced Baths"


Wednesday March 3 1:34 AM ET

Peruvians Say Aliens Enhanced Baths

By DAVID KOOP Associated Press Writer

CHILCA, Peru (AP) - Marco and Erudita Alva plunge into a pond
called "The Twin Maker" and begin slopping on ink-black mud from
head to toe. They're trying to solve their fertility problem.

Over at the "The Miracle Maker" pond, Zoila Bejar rubs slick mud
reeking of sulfur all over her body in hopes it will ease
chronic back pain.

A lot of ailing Peruvians are turning up in Chilca, a dusty,
desert town on the Pacific coast 40 miles southeast of Lima.
They come to wallow in the mud of three small ponds thought to
have healing powers.

But there's a twist to these mud baths - locals claim their
purported miraculous powers are brought by alien space ships.

"Lots of people claim to have seen UFOs and strange lights in
the night sky over Chilca. People here believe in UFOs," Mayor
Numa Rueda says.

Visitors to Chilca are greeted by a sign proclaiming the town as
"The Preferred Site for Interplanetary Ships and Beings."

Locals say the space ships come to harvest an unknown material
from the ocean off Chilca's beach. The UFOs supposedly leave
behind substances that reach the ponds through underground
springs and give them curative powers.

Townspeople cite an abundance of twins in Chilca - more than 100
pairs in the town of 10,000, Rueda says - as proof of the power
of "The Twin Maker" pond.

Although doctors dismiss the idea that space ships have given
the mud powers, they do say the ponds' high sulfur content can
temporarily ease arthritis pain and stiffness and clear up
problem skin.

But they are skeptics when it comes to "The Twin Maker" and any
power it might have to make women have twins.

"Some communities have large numbers of twins for genetic
reasons or coincidence. It is not proof of the mud's power,"
says Dr. Augusto Ascenzo, head of a prominent Lima fertility
clinic.

Chilca's people aren't deterred by the skepticism.

Twins Veronica and Monica Sanchez, whose mother regularly bathed
in "The Twin Maker," say many of their friends have seen strange
objects hovering over Chilca.

"They are bright lights which form a circle and hover over the
ponds or the beach," Veronica said.

Chilca is not the only place in Peru's southern desert people
believe are frequented by aliens.

On the plains of Nazca, 185 miles to the southeast, giant lines
and drawings etched in the sand centuries ago by the Nazca
Indians have attracted UFO buffs ever since the best-selling
book "Chariots of the Gods" in the early 1970s speculated they
were alien landing strips.

Although archaeologists ridiculed the idea, tourists still try
to sleep overnight among the Nazca lines to absorb supposedly
mystical energies.

In Chilca, a sign above "The Twin Maker" boasts the mud contains
sulfur, silicon, iron, calcium, potassium and other minerals. It
claims the pond boosts male and female fertility and cures
impotence.

The jet-black mud of "The Miracle Maker," the largest of the
three ponds, is touted as a cure for arthritis, rheumatism,
cataracts, vision problems and muscle pain.

The third pond, "The Enchantress," is supposed to cure skin
ailments and migraines. Local legend has it that a fairy was
seen flying above it one night.

On a recent day, dozens of mud-covered Peruvians bask on the
sides of each pond, while others swim in the waist-deep water.
The ponds are just outside Chilca and are surrounded by cheap
hotels - one also called "The Twin Maker."

"The mud is rich and we'd love to have twins," said Erudita
Alva, who drove over from Lima.

_________________________________________

Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News:





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   Mar > Mar 3

                          Re: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo

From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:30:02 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 09:30:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo


>From: Adriano Forgione <mbalien@tin.it>
>To: <Updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Meteosat-3 UFO Photo
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:02:30 +0100

>[Non-Subscriber Post]


>Dear Sirs,

>I'm sending for your own information an astounding case in Italy
>which occurred on 3 September, 1993. Please release this
>information in your bulletin.

>The GOES-8 UFO has a twin in Italy

>Following the round shaped object, shot on 17 July 1992 by the
>GOES-8 satellite, we have an identical case in Italy. For
>clarity purpose, we are enclosing in attachment the image of the
>italian case shot on 3 September 1993, from the metereological
>satellite Meteosat 3.



All,

I would be _very_ wary of taking this image seriously.

As part of our teaching program here at the Univ we have a
'simple' MeteoSat receiving station which takes the down-link of
the European weather sats, so I know a little of the processes
involved.

Firstly as has been said the image shows an Infrared Image, the
sensors in the Meteosat birds gather data in three part of the
spectrum, visible and 2 areas in the infrared one to show cloud
cover in night areas and the other sensitive to water vapour,
the infrared images are around half the resolution of the
visible light images.

The satellites _don't_ use a camera!, they use a scanning
radiometer, a rotating mechanical sensor which scans a 'slice'
of 'earth-disk' and can pan up and down to scan the whole earth
disk in the 3 channels together producing an (from memory) 8k x
8k data set of triplets of numbers which are down-linked in
real-time, in Europe's case, to the control site in Germany,
where this raw data is stripped into it's individual image
channels and all the nice fancy bits like country outlines are
added and the _distribution_versions_ of the data are prepared.

These pre-prepared images, nicely annotated are then up-linked
back to the satellite which transmits them back down on approx
1200mhz for use by end-user sites (your local TV weathermen and
amateurs alike). The guy who allegedly received the image,
would have got it at this point in the chain. All the data
coming down from the Euro Meteosats is archived in Germany on
mag-tape and can be accessed. I assume the same goes for the US
control site (Greenbank VA?) as this image came from the period
after Meteosat 3 was moved in orbit to over the Americas to
stand in for a US Sat that failed and it's replacement was still
being prepared for orbit. It was part of the distribution
schedule for the European sats to relay the US data, I assume
the US birds did the same with the European data, they also
relay the data from the sats over Australia.

The point here to consider is, it wasn't a _camera_ that took
this image. The satellite doesn't go 'snap' every so often to
get its image. It scans one slice of 'earth disc' at a time,
like you build up a TV picture a line at a time, and this
process takes quite a time to scan the whole earth. So that
little 'disc' in the image would have to hold _exact_ position
_and_ orientation for a while to have a nice sharp image like
the one shown!, not and easy task for a body in orbit. To be
honest I'd be more convinced if it actually had ragged edges
indicating movement between scan lines.

To me it looks like a 'joke' image (see closing note below) but
you could always ask NOAA for the original data set as you have
the time and date stamp. You might also find a University in the
US who also archives the distribution data, I know of at least
one here in the UK that does this with the European data.

On a closing note, it's not unheard of on these sats for the odd
'wag' to play the fool from time to time. Its amazing how the
images of Santa with sleigh and snow going over the north pole
get up-linked around Christmas!<g>.

Neil.

--
*        *         *         *         *         *         *         *
Neil Morris.       /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\
Dept of Physics.   1                                                 1
Univ of Manchester 0                                                 0
Schuster Labs.     1  Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES  1
Brunswick St.      0                                                 0
Manchester.        1                                                 1
UK.                \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/
G8KOQ


             E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk

Roswell and Alien Autopsy Archive->  http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/
Dave Willetts Home Page->    http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/
Mike Sterling Home Page->    http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/mike-s/
Tim Morgan Home Page   ->    http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/tim-m/

*        *         *         *         *         *         *         *





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   Mar > Mar 3

                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:11:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 09:37:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


>From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:22:11 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net)
>>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?
>>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:32:11 -0600
>>From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net

>"The most likely explaination of what drives the comets toward
>the earth's region of the solar system is "Nemesis" - a
>companion star to the sun, named after the Greek goddess of
>divine justice"

>Now granted we are talking about something like another sun, but
>its not so far fetched to have a body traveling in an elongated
>orbit. I guess we can always have an open mind to "anything is
>possible".

This is, however, very unlikely.

The Nemesis star has never been detected (and there have been
searches), nor does the sun exhibit the kinds of anomalous
motions such a gravitationally-bound companion implies.

A better explanation for the disturbance of Oort cloud objects
is the Sun's periodic passage through the plane of our galaxy's
spiral arms. Gravitational peturbation is much more likely in
these more densely-populated regions.

Mass-extinctions seem to roughly coincide with such a passage
through the galactic plane.

Brian






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   Mar > Mar 3

                        Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 12:43:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 12:43:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy



>From: David Lynn <Davus@cgo.wave.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:47:50 -0500

>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 05:51:08 -0500
>>From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy
>>To: "updates@globalserve.net" <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Does anyone have a copy of Dorothy Kilgallen's autopsy report?
>>or does anyone know of any other researchers who have
>>investigated her mysterious death?

>>Thanks, Tony

>Hey Tony,

>Not sure what Dorothy Kilgallen has to do with UFOs?

David,

Oddly enough, a fair bit...

Kilgallen had involved herself with the subject since at least
1947. [see below]

According to Clifford Stone's research of non-UFO-related CIA
documents [are you there Clifford?]:

Kilgallen had been told by Marilyn Monroe, three days before
Monroe died, that "she was about to call a press conference to
reveal that she had proof of what JFK had told her about a UFO
crash in New Mexico from which some of the dead alien bodies
were recoverd."

I'm including some excerpts from various sources which refer to
Kilgallen from my archives here.

ebk

-----

Date: 02-26-94 (18:00)       Number: 24328 of 24352 (Refer# NONE)
  To: ALL
From: Todd Bigs <TODDB@WRQ.COM>
Subj: History of UFO Crashes


May, 1947 - Spitzbergen, Norway
A report by journalist Dorothy Kilgallen stated that British
scientists and airmen were excavating the wreckage of a
mysterious flying ship. The Swedish military acknowledged its
extraterrestrial origin and reported 17 bodies were found. The
story appeared as a tiny blip for only one day in the U.S. news
media before it was silenced by the military. I personally saw
this news story years ago.

---

Editorial

SOMEBODY MUST BE BEHIND IT
by
Jerome Clark

Reprinted with permission of the IUR to ParaNet Information
Service. (C) 1991 by the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies,
2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60659. All Rights
Reserved.

Errors large and small litter the pages of Revelations, evincing
Vallee's ignorance of any ufology but his own. Donald Keyhoe did
not write The UFO Conspiracy, nor is Timothy Good the author of
something called Beyond Top Secret. Benton Jamison is not
"Benton Majison," and Detlev Bronk's first name was not
"Detley." (For that matter, Leo Tolstoy's was not "Leon.") And
whatever else page 216 would have you believe, CUFOS left
Evanston, Illinois, years ago. Vallee's coverage of the crashed
disc question is a disaster. He has the Ubatuba incident
occurring in 1933 or 1934 when it is supposed to have taken
place in 1951. He places the Spitzbergen event in May
1941-contemporary published accounts put it in the early 1950s,
though it is almost certainly a hoax-and Dorothy Kilgallen is
incorrectly identified as the source of the rumor. The
celebrated Texas/Mexico incident is set in a year and location
different from those its proponents have assigned it.

---

From: Val Germann <germannvh@aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
Subject: UFO Chronology -- 1953
Date: 21 Feb 1995 01:54:40 -0500


Feb., 1954     Dorothy Kilgallen reports that Flying Saucers
               will be the subject of a secret meeting of
               "world military heads this summer." See
               1963.

---

From: brenne@telepost.no (Ole-Jonny Brenne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranet.ufo
Subject: Spitzbergen UFO Crash - 1952.
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 19:07:50 GMT


FIRST REPORT ON THE CAPTURED FLYING SAUCER!

By E.W. Grenfell


A report by Dorothy Kilgallen in Journal American (042) 22 May
1955, has often been used as corroborating evidence for the
Spitsbergen crash story. However, Kilgallen did not mention
Spitsbergen at all. In addition, her message was picked to
pieces in the Washington Post (046) of 24 May 1955.

---

From: brenne@telepost.no (Ole-Jonny Brenne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranet.ufo
Subject: Spitzbergen sources.
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 22:39:28 GMT


042  JOURNAL AMERICAN.
     22 May 1955.
     ----
     Dorothy Kilgallen.
     (NOT SEEN!)

044  MIAMI HERALD.
     23 May 1955.
     ----
     Dorothy Kilgallen.
     (NOT SEEN!)

---

From: germannvh@aol.com (Germannvh)
Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
Subject: James E. McDonald -- Context -- Part One
Date: 26 Jul 1995 17:07:22 -0400


James E. McDonald -- Context -- Part One

Val Germann
Columbia, Missouri


                        The Age Of Zamora
                            1964-1972

Dec., 1965     Dorothy Kilgallen dead of "drug overdose."
               Had said in her column that she would break
               the JFK killing, which some now say was UFO
               related. Two days later Kilgallen's best
               friend died, too, and may have had Kilgallen's
               notes in her home. See books Crossfire and
               High Treason.

---







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   Mar > Mar 3

                        Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy

From: David Lynn <Davus@cgo.wave.ca>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:47:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 11:15:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy


>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 05:51:08 -0500
>From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy
>To: "updates@globalserve.net" <updates@globalserve.net>


>Does anyone have a copy of Dorothy Kilgallen's autopsy report?
>or does anyone know of any other researchers who have
>investigated her mysterious death?

>Thanks, Tony


Hey Tony,

Not sure what Dorothy Kilgallen has to do with UFOs?

She's more of interest to JFK, What's My Line, Lenny Bruce, etc.
fans. Supposedly her last appearance on What's My Line is of
interest (and available for viewing somewhere?). It was filmed
hours before her death and she appears to be sick, drunk, on
drugs, etc. There's LOADS of stuff on the web...  below is just
one small example...

D

---

Dead in the Wake of the Kennedy Assassination

Dorothy Kilgallen: Mysterious Death?

An exchange on the Internet newsgroup alt.assassination.jfk:

On 5 Aug 1998 13:33:26 -0500, "bigjames" wrote:

Hello all

I will admit I am a newbie to this group, However I am far from
a newbie as far as this subject goes. I was curious if anyone in
the group had done any kind of research into the meeting that a
famous writer ( Dorothy Kilgallen ) had with Ruby while he was
in jail. She was a very famous writer in the 40's,50's and 60's.
She was romantically involved with the singer Johnny Ray. After
her interview with RUBY she called Mr.Ray from a payphone
stating she had the story of the century but could not talk
about it over the phone. He never heard from her again. She was
found in her L.A. apartment, dead of an apparent overdose. I
have never heard of anyone going any deeper into the story.

OK, the relevant document is Record Number 1801007110433. It's
an HSCA document with Agency File number 007250. From the
National Archives in College Park.

It includes the "Report of Death" form from the Office of Chief
Medical Examiner, the "Autopsy Report" (with the autopsy being
performed by Junior Medical Examiner James Luke with doctors
Sturner and Baden present), a handwritten addendum to the
"Autopsy Report" that give the microscopic and chemical
findings, and "Notice of Death" of the Office of Chief Medical
Examiner of the City of New York.

1.Her husband was with her in her New York east side apartment,
although not in the same bedroom.

2.Her husband said she returned from "What's My Line" feeling
chipper. She went to her bedroom. The next morning (noon,
actually) he found her dead.

3.The examination of the body at the scene found "no trauma" and
"no signs violence" [sic].

4.The autopsy found no injuries whatsoever that could account
for her death, nor any evidence of a struggle nor (say) pills
being forced down her throat.

5.The cause of death in the autopsy says "PENDING FURTHER
STUDY." A handwriten note below that says "Acute ethanol and
barbiturate intoxication. Circumstances undetermined." This
handwritten note was apparently based on the chemical findings,
which were appended to the report. She had a blood alcohol level
of 0.15, and barbiturate level that says "UV - 2.4 [illegible]"
in the liver. I frankly don't understand the barbiturate level,
and can't read the handwriten notation very well.

I would be happy to send this to anybody who will send their
snail mail address. Medical people like Barb and Judy might
especially need to see it.

Conclusion? It's really impossible to believe some Oliver Stone
scenario of hoods coming into her apartment and forcing a bunch
of pills down her throat. Neither of the alcohol and barbiturate
levels was absurdly high, as it would be with an intentional
overdose. I suppose it's possible she committed suicide by
mixing both alcohol and barbiturates intentionally, but this
really looks like an accident.

There are some reliable accounts of her mental condition
deteriorating shortly before her death. This might suggest
suicide, but it also might simply suggest that she got careless
about what she ingested.

.John

The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm






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   Mar > Mar 3

                   Re: Christian Science Monitor on NBC's

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 99 10:06:14 PST
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 12:53:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Christian Science Monitor on NBC's


>Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 20:31:11 -0800
>From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Christian Science Monitor on NBC's 'Confirmation'

>http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/1999/03/01/fp8s2-csm.shtml

>Christian Science Monitor
>Monday, March 1, 1999

>THE MONITOR'S VIEW

>Alien to Science

>By happenstance rather than plan, we recently watched a segment
>of a two-hour network special. Title: "Confirmation: The Hard
>Evidence of Aliens Among Us?" Generally, we prefer to ignore
>charlatans forecasting the decline and fall of American
>civilization, the coming stock market crash, Y2K armageddon, and
>other approximations of the end of the world. But this
>particular show struck a chord of dismay.

>Like most of humanity, we're enthusiastic about our planet's
>space programs. Pictures transmitted back from probes of Mars,
>Venus, Saturn, etc., are extraordinarily fascinating. They
>represent major achievements in human history. And we join in
>the hope that SETI and other astronomical searches will turn up
>evidence of life elsewhere in the universe. But, please, don't
>undermine such genuine scientific effort with pseudo-science
>gimcrackery.

Interesting to see that the "rationalist" party line lives on in
the occasional expression of piousness as above. A couple of
conclusions seem safe bets:

(1) The editorial writer here knows nothing about the UFO
phenomenon except that it's "pseudo-science gimcrackery."

As always in these matters, ignorance (in Orwell's mordant
phrase) is strength.

(2) The writer's objection, of course, is not to Confirmation as
such but to all of ufology, not excluding that practiced on this
List. In this sort of wonderland, James McDonald and Billy
Meier are functional equivalents. In other words, when UFOs are
at issue, "rationalism" begins to look might irrational.

Jerry Clark







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   Mar > Mar 3

                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:34:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:26:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin

>From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:22:11 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin

>Now boys, you too Larry Hatch.....let's not get too hasty here
>with good old Zacharia Sitchin's theories. Let's go back some
>years ago to the "Shiva Theory". This name was proposed by
>Harlan Smith of the University of Texas at Austin and Stephen
>Jay Gould of Harvard. If you recall this involves the theory of
>mass extinctions on a periodic level and includes the following:

>"The most likely explaination of what drives the comets toward
>the earth's region of the solar system is  "Nemesis" - a
>companion star to the sun, named after the Greek goddess of
>divine justice"

>Now granted we are talking about something like another sun, but
>its not so far fetched to have a body traveling in an elongated
>orbit.

Unfortunately, like Sitchin's theories, the Nemesis theory,
while much less ambitious, has not a single stitch of empirical
evidence. Yes, there have been some extinctions, but it seems
clear that such factors as disease spread from continental drift
and perhaps near-earth asteroid impact (in the case of the
dinosaurs) are responsible. It is not clear that a "shower" of
comets is necessary to explain such extictions, and, moreover,
there are no signs of such large recent bombardments on the moon
or on Mars.

A summary of other problems with that theory can be found in

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/astronomy/faq/part5/section-6.html

These include the disappearance of an apparent periodicity in
extinctions, and the fact that such an object would be
detectable in astronomical surveys.

Ultimately, though, what John is saying is that...

---

1) Myths, legends, and ancient writings are uncertain at best in
their accuracy. Distinguishing between recording of actual
unusual events, historical allegories, made-up "portents", and
flowery language used to describe something mundane can be very
difficult. Basing important portions of human history on such
items requires extensive corroboration in the form of material
from other sources (preferably some from other cultures), and
physical artifacts.

2) Sitchin's authority on Sumerian literature is disputable. As
one example, the Sumerian FAQs

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/sumer-faq.html

do not list a single one of Sitchin's works.

The same is true of

http://www.sron.ruu.nl/~jheise/akkadian/index.html#index

These sites and other references also show that Sumerian myths
do not appear to contain unusual elements when compared with
other mythologies.

Also, of over 5000 web hits on "Sumerian", only 261 reference
Sitchin, and those 261 are almost entirely new age, not
archaeological. The ones which do not reference Sitchin are
almost entirely archaeological.

Mainstream archeological thought, based on the work of many
scientists in the field, do not support Sitchin's unique
interpretation of Sumerian material, as is documented at

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8148/hafernik.html

---

At this point, I am sure that the usual "mainstream scientists
have their heads up their a**" comments will be posted. Please
restrain yourself.

The fact that mainstream science does not give credence to UFOs
cannot be used to argue that they do not accept Sitchin for the
same reason. That is because the texts which Sitchin interprets
are available for examination by any scholar, while UFOs
represent a much more difficult scientific problem due to their
transience.

The biggest strike against Sitchin is that the standard
interpretations of the Sumerian texts and mythologies do not
appear to bear much if any resemblance to his interpretations.
Now, Sumerian scholars are not going to care if a bunch of
Sumerian myths claims that humans were made by certain gods, and
so forth, because they don't believe those myths have any
empirical foundation anyway. So no reason exists for them not to
develop translations which at least parallel Sitchin's
interpretation. Yet, they don't.

In short, it would appear that there is no reason to give
special consideration to Sitchin's lone account of what are, at
best, obscure myths, subject to a variety of intepretations.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo.htm
------





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   Mar > Mar 3

                        Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 10:54:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:29:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy


>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 05:51:08 -0500
>From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy
>To: "updates@globalserve.net" <updates@globalserve.net>

>Does anyone have a copy of Dorothy Kilgallens autopsy report?
>or does anyone know of any other researchers who have
>investigated her mysterious death?

>Thanks, Tony

This guy says he'll send it to you if you send him your snail
mail address:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/death4.htm

Terry






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                          Re: Remarkable 'Meteors'

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 10:40:43 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:34:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Remarkable 'Meteors'


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:27:25 -0500
>Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:37:26 -0500
>Subject: Remarkable 'Meteors'


>Barry Greenwood has claimed that the "remarkable meteors" seen
>by crew members of the USS Supply in 1904 actually were meteors.
>My calculations suggest that they were "too remarkable" to be
>meteors.


>[] REMARKABLEmeteor.txt

<snip>

>The "bottom line" on the meteor hypothesis is that it is
>strained, at the very least, by the observation that they
>appeared to travel beneath the clouds (considering the 90% cloud
>cover), strained even further by the observation that the
>angular motion ceased and they appeared to travel directly away
>from the ship, and finally it is rejected by the reported
>duration of over 2 minutes.

Long duration meteors should be of great interest to scientists.
Some examples would be:

Toronto to Bermuda 1913

South Atlantic 1922

West and Colorado Sept 1950

The last is a break up of the meteor with pieces "flying" in a
"formation."

Duration of three minutes have been reported.  How accurate
these durations might be open to question.  Satellite velocity,
"double dippers," and grazing meteors might actually exceed the
two minutes.

Certainly among the database of UFO sightings are examples of
these rare occurrences.  The last scientist who actively sought
this data from the Project Blue Book and NICAP and other UFO
organizations was Dr. Charles Olivier.

(BTW The Boelender (sp?) Memo was inaccurate as the American
Meteor Society through Olivier regularly requested data from the
Air Force's UFO investigation.  Quintanilla was aware of this.)

Olivier also regularly provided NICAP with observations he
received which were not meteors.

In any case, "remarkable meteors" in the UFO files should have
been reason enough to look at UFO records despite Condon's
recommendation.

--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135






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                          Re: Tunguska Documentary?

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:21:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:37:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Tunguska Documentary?


>Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 15:24:30 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Tunguska Documentary?


>>From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Tunguska Documentary?
>>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:14:58 -0500

>>Second, has anyone seen or heard of a documentary on the
>>Tunguska event, you know 1908 an explosion flattens miles of
>>Russian trees. I understand there was a documentary made on this
>i>n the twenties. If anyone has any info I would appreciate if
>>you could drop me a line.



>This isn't exactly direction to a documentary but it is
>interesting documentation regarding Tunguska. >

>Sue

---

>Source: http://pages.prodigy.net/onichelson/tunguska.htm#N_27_

>1908: Tesla repeated the idea of destruction by electrical waves
>to the newspaper on April 21st. His letter to the editor stated,
>"When I spoke of future warfare I meant that it should be
>conducted by direct application of electrical waves without the
>use of aerial engines or other implements of destruction." He
>added: "This is not a dream. Even now wireless power plants
>could be constructed by which any region of the globe might be
>rendered uninhabitable without subjecting the population of
>other parts to serious danger or inconvenience."(27) >

<snip>

>He seems to confess to such a test having taken place before
>1915, and, though the evidence is circumstantial, Tesla had the
>motive and the means to cause the Tunguska event. His
>transmitter could generate energy levels and frequencies capable
>of releasing the destructive force of 10 megatons, or more, of
>TNT. And the overlooked genius was desperate.

What?

I suspect that the person who wrote this hasn't the slightest
idea of the energy equivalent of 10 megatons.

There is all too much "hopeful dreaming" associated with the
works of Nicola Tesla.

My opinion: Had Tesla succeeded in his wireless transmission of
power system, we wouldn't have radio and TV because the
electromagnetic spectrum (hundreds of kHz to hundreds of MHz)
would be filled with electromagnetic noise.







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   Mar > Mar 3

                         Re: Nick Pope's Weird World

From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:51:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:43:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Nick Pope's Weird World


>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 04:50:01 +0000
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World

>I Heard A Rumour
>Ufology abounds with false rumours, some of which are genuine
>mistakes, while others are down to poor research or outright
>lies. Here are some of the more bizarre ones doing the rounds at
>the moment:

>A UFO shot down an RAF jet in March 1997 - Er, no. This one
>seems to turn on somebody seeing a man staggering down a road,
>with his clothes smelling of fuel. Was this the RAF pilot, in a
>disorientated state after his close encounter? No, probably just
>a mechanic who�d been to the pub.

Poor research and outright lies - you've hit the proverbial nail
on the head here Mr Pope.

All I can say is .... "I told you so!"






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                             Re: 'Down to Earth'

From: Marc Bell <MARC@wufog.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:00:12 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:48:45 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Down to Earth'


Dear All,

Having read the latest edition (Issue 5) of 'Down to Earth', I
must admit I am thoroughly impressed. I was instantly drawn to
the amazing cover art of Dave Bowden, a saucer over what I
presume is Stonehenge?

The contents, 60 full pages worth, are varied and balanced. The
statement by Matthew Williams being a prime example, (crop
circle hoaxing), both sides without the resorting to the
constant 'personal slagging offs', we hear from certain
researchers & self appointed experts daily on the net.... take
note.

Articles inc: the second installment of, 'The Sheffield
Incident' by Max Burns, 'A Darker Shade Of Grey', by Chris
Martin etc... Plus all the usual things you would expect from a
good UFO mag, sighting reports, world news, book reviews (by
Malcolm Robinson), contact details for other groups & loads
more.....

In the UK its available from:-

ELUFON
ROY HALE
21 SPARROW GREEN BULL LANE
DAGENHAM
ESSEX
RM10 7EU

At =A32 (inc: postage in the UK) payable to Roy Hale

For international orders Roys e-mail address is:-

roy_hale@virgin.net

Well Done Roy (& everyone else involved),

Marc Bell

(Woolwich UFO Research Group)






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                        Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 99 14:03:07 PST
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:53:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>From: David Lynn <Davus@cgo.wave.ca>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:47:50 -0500

>>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 05:51:08 -0500
>>>From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
>>>Subject: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy
>>>To: "updates@globalserve.net" <updates@globalserve.net>

>>>Does anyone have a copy of Dorothy Kilgallen's autopsy report?
>>>or does anyone know of any other researchers who have
>>>investigated her mysterious death?

>I'm including some excerpts from various sources which refer to
>Kilgallen from my archives here.

>Date: 02-26-94 (18:00)       Number: 24328 of 24352 (Refer# NONE)
>  To: ALL
>From: Todd Bigs <TODDB@WRQ.COM>
>Subj: History of UFO Crashes

>Editorial

>SOMEBODY MUST BE BEHIND IT
>by
>Jerome Clark

>Reprinted with permission of the IUR to ParaNet Information
>Service. (C) 1991 by the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies,
>2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60659. All Rights
>Reserved.

>Errors large and small litter the pages of Revelations, evincing
>Vallee's ignorance of any ufology but his own. Donald Keyhoe did
>not write The UFO Conspiracy, nor is Timothy Good the author of
>something called Beyond Top Secret. Benton Jamison is not
>"Benton Majison," and Detlev Bronk's first name was not
>"Detley." (For that matter, Leo Tolstoy's was not "Leon.") And
>whatever else page 216 would have you believe, CUFOS left
>Evanston, Illinois, years ago. Vallee's coverage of the crashed
>disc question is a disaster. He has the Ubatuba incident
>occurring in 1933 or 1934 when it is supposed to have taken
>place in 1951.


Errol and listfolk:

There's a typo here, particularly unfortunate because I'm quoted
here lambasting somebody else's errors.  In the original piece
(which appeared in IUR for September/October 1991, pp. 3, 21-22)
I wrote -- correctly -- that the Ubatuba, Brazil, incident
allegedly occurred in 1957, not 1951.

Jerry Clark








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                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: Geri & Alfred Webre <Ecotoday@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:21:29 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:57:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:11:10 -0500

<snip>

>A better explanation for the disturbance of Oort cloud objects
>is the Sun's periodic passage through the plane of our galaxy's
>spiral arms. Gravitational peturbation is much more likely in
>these more densely-populated regions.

>Mass-extinctions seem to roughly coincide with such a passage
>through the galactic plane.

>Brian

Fascinating. Do you have a URL-reference for the galactic
plane/mass extinction theory? This connection between earth
changes and Earth's passage through the galactic plane or
equator is a part of Mayan cosmology. Mayan cosmology scholars
(John Major Jenkins et al.) now hold that during 1998-2001 the
Earth is aligning with the galactic equator.  The Earth's 26,000
year galactic cycle will end, according to the Mayan calendar,
on December 22, 2012.  This is said to inaugurate an age of
earth changes.

Of UFO interest, the July 11, 1991 Mexico City UFO sighting
occured on the exact date of the Mayan Sixth Sun eclipse,
predicted by the Mayan calendar in 755 AD to represent return of
the "spacebrothers".  The sighting was documented on 17
different independent video-cams.  John G. Gall of Scotland's
Skywatch International has an excellent report on the July 11
sighting including computer enhancements of the video-cam
images.

We're developing a "context" interpretation theory for
high-sychronicity UFO events like the Sixth Sun UFO event.  The
theory seems to hold whether the UFO event was dimensional,
extraterrestrial, geo-electromagnetic or MILAB-"Nellis" tech.

Geri & Alfred Webre
Vancouver, BC





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                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:13:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 15:02:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


>>>From: "John Ratcliff" <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
>>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?
>>>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:32:11 -0600

>>>only 'data' I can base my remarks upon would be the writings
>>>of Sitchin. Is it my own personal opinion?  Of course, those
>>>are my favorite kind.

>>>Hmmm.. the 'rational' folks I was referring to were those who
>>>believed in the rules of evidence, logic, the scientific
>>>method, rigorous epstimology applied to sparse datasets.

John, one quick question -- not because I'm defending Sitchen,
but because I've often wondered about the question originally
asked here: What do established Sumerian scholars think of his
work?

You said, if I remember correctly, that they think what any
rational person would think -- that it's essentially nonsense.

So here's my question. Do you have quotes from scholars to that
effect? Or have you heard specific reports of these scholars
having that opinion?

Greg Sandow






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                   Cheshire UFO Landing - More Sightings!

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:11:56 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 16:27:13 -0500
Subject: Cheshire UFO Landing - More Sightings!


Dear All,

In a new twist to yesterday's report from the British UFO
Studies Centre relating to claims by local witnesses of a "UFO
Landing" event in Knutsford, Cheshire, we can confirm that
further remarkable reports have been forthcoming.

Last night, during another well-attended BUFOSC meeting in
Warrington, Cheshire, Director Eric Morris was reporting the
events of Sunday night/Monday morning to the audience when he
received a message on his pager. UFOs were being reported;
witnesses had just seen similar anomalous lights in the
Knutsford area. As a result, Irene Dale and Sarah Cardwell,
investigators with the British UFO Studies Centre, immediately
left for the scene and arrived in time to see the lights.

Later on, eight others joined and conducted a Skywatch with the
media on site.

A full page report on the first incident was featured in the
Knutsford Guardian newspaper and the local media is taking an
interest in these sightings. As yet - and having conducted
another search of the area and contacted the authorities again -
nothing has been forthcoming in terms of a reasonable
explanation.

BUFOSC is organising a big public meeting in the area within the
next two weeks during which new facts about the case will be
released and video and photographic evidence will be presented.

Tim Matthews - Press Officer, British UFO Studies Centre.

Contact Eric Morris;

78, Greenall Rd, Northwich, Cheshire, UK, CW9 5RN.
Tel; (01606) 330567
Pager; (01523) 160249
Email; bufosc@compuserve.com






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                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:32:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 16:38:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


>From: Geri & Alfred Webre <Ecotoday@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:21:29 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

>>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:11:10 -0500

>Do you have a URL-reference for the galactic plane/mass
>extinction theory?

Check out:

http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/HayfieldSS/haystk5.htm

The page title is:

"Researchers May Have Discovered Why Earth Has Been Bombarded By
Comets More Frequently At Certain Periods In Earth's History."

It gives a good overview of this theory.

Brian







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                    UFO Security Classification Hearings?

From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:53:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 16:47:49 -0500
Subject: UFO Security Classification Hearings?



Hello List!


On Tue, 12 May 1998 07:00:59 -0400 we received from
(Stig Agermose) the following:


-----Original Message-----

From: ROGER L. SCHERRER <cydonia@aztec.asu.edu>
To: Skypost@unix.ltlb.com <Skypost@unix.ltlb.com>; Starmanbh@AOL.COM
<Starmanbh@AOL.COM>; Jhickman@itlnet.net <Jhickman@itlnet.net>
Date: Monday, May 11, 1998 6:25 PM
Subject: [cydonia@aztec.asu.edu: CNN - UFO Security Classification
Hearings]

>================= Begin forwarded message =================
>
>From: cydonia@aztec.asu.edu (ROGER L. SCHERRER)
>To: cydonia
>Subject: CNN - UFO Security Classification Hearings
>Date: Mon, 11 May

[...]

>Rep. Steve Horn (Republican from CA) questioned Lee Strickland
>from CIA and Steve Garfinkle from the Information Security
>Oversight Office about classification levels other than the usual
>Top Secret, Secret, and Confidential categories. [Anyone that
>has looked into this area would soon learn that there are many
>levels that are higher than the Top Secret category.]

[...]

>A good follow up question that Rep. Horn should have asked is the
>following:  What about SCI, CRYPTO, ULTRA, VRK, UMBRA, Q38, etc.
>etc.? I have a sneaky suspicion that the Rep. from CA was being
>duped.

>Apparently, Rep. Horn is planning future hearings on the issue of
>secrecy.

--------------------------------------------------

Does anyone has further information  if these "future hearings"
took place?

Thanks,

Joachim Koch








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   Mar > Mar 3

                     Another Martian Life Announcement?

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:08:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 16:49:19 -0500
Subject: Another Martian Life Announcement?



http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_289000/289214.stm

Article begins: "Sensational new claims about life on Mars are
about to be made by US scientists.

"Some of the researchers who claimed in 1996 to have found
evidence for past life in a Martian meteorite now say they have
further evidence to support their theories in one, possibly two,
other rocks."






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                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:38:41 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 17:15:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


>From: Geri & Alfred Webre <Ecotoday@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:21:29 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

>>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:11:10 -0500

><snip>

>>A better explanation for the disturbance of Oort cloud objects
>>is the Sun's periodic passage through the plane of our galaxy's
>>spiral arms. Gravitational peturbation is much more likely in
>>these more densely-populated regions.

>>Mass-extinctions seem to roughly coincide with such a passage
>>through the galactic plane.

>>Brian

>Fascinating. Do you have a URL-reference for the galactic
>plane/mass extinction theory? This connection between earth
>changes and Earth's passage through the galactic plane or
>equator is a part of Mayan cosmology. Mayan cosmology scholars
>(John Major Jenkins et al.) now hold that during 1998-2001 the
>Earth is aligning with the galactic equator.  The Earth's 26,000
>year galactic cycle will end, according to the Mayan calendar,
>on December 22, 2012.  This is said to inaugurate an age of
>earth changes.

I'm not sure what the phrase "Earth is aligning with the
galactic equator" means here.  But I can tell you that the Sun
is presently _not_ in the galactic plane.  As I recall,
according to recent studies, the Sun is apparently something
like 12-15 light-years above the galactic plane, and its present
motion is taking it even higher above the galactic plane than
that, in a great arc.

Eventually Sol will reach a high point, say 30-50 light years,
above the galactic plane.  After that, we will begin to descend
again until we pass through the plane and out the other side.
But that next planar crossing is still millions of years in the
future.

The Sun travels this way, in a great undulating sine wave
passing repeatedly above and then below the galactic plane, as
it orbits around our galactic core with an orbital period of 200
million years or so.  The same is true, to one degree or
another, of all the billions of stars that make up our galactic
disk.  Its really quite an amazing symphony if you stop to think
about it.


-Brian Cuthbertson
 amateur astronomer
 Austin, Texas






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                  Peter Robbins on Jeff Rense's 'Sightings'

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:42:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 17:51:10 -0500
Subject: Peter Robbins on Jeff Rense's 'Sightings'

Hi All,

Just to inform all that Peter Robbins, co-author of "Left At
Eastgate" (The U.K. UFO case involving US military personell)
will be appearing on Jeff Rense's "Sightings" program this
evening.

Enjoy,






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                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:56:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 17:53:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:34:47 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

<snip>

>At this point, I am sure that the usual "mainstream scientists
>have their heads up their a**" comments will be posted. Please
>restrain yourself.

>The fact that mainstream science does not give credence to UFOs
>cannot be used to argue that they do not accept Sitchin for the
>same reason. That is because the texts which Sitchin interprets
>are available for examination by any scholar, while UFOs
>represent a much more difficult scientific problem due to their
>transience.
>
>The biggest strike against Sitchin is that the standard
>interpretations of the Sumerian texts and mythologies do not
>appear to bear much if any resemblance to his interpretations.
>Now, Sumerian scholars are not going to care if a bunch of
>Sumerian myths claims that humans were made by certain gods, and
>so forth, because they don't believe those myths have any
>empirical foundation anyway. So no reason exists for them not to
>develop translations which at least parallel Sitchin's
>interpretation. Yet, they don't.

>In short, it would appear that there is no reason to give
>special consideration to Sitchin's lone account of what are, at
>best, obscure myths, subject to a variety of intepretations.


Thank you Mark:

That was a lot of work, and you said it much better than I would
have in any case.

My only input was to ask what Astronomers might think of the
planetary portions of Sitchin's writings.

After a brief exchange of letters with Sitchin some years back,
it became evident that some of the the simplest elements of
astronomy were lost on him.

Best wishes

-  Larry Hatch






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                Re: Peter Robbins on Jeff Rense's 'Sightings'

From: Jeff Rense <eotl@west.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:03:19 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:23:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Peter Robbins on Jeff Rense's 'Sightings'

>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:42:23 -0500
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Peter Robbins on Jeff Rense's 'Sightings'


>Hi All,

>Just to inform all that Peter Robbins, co-author of "Left At
>Eastgate" (The U.K. UFO case involving US military personell)
>will be appearing on Jeff Rense's "Sightings" program this
>evening.

>Enjoy,

>John Velez



Hi Errol,

My good friend John's announcement of Peter's appearance is a
day early. Peter will be here tomorrow, Thursday, for a visit.
(John has been painting his bathroom today...those paint fumes
can sometimes distort space/time...).

Tonight, Wednesday: Michael Lindemann; "50 Years Of Denial"
documentary producer, James Fox; and William Buhlman about his
remarkable OBE work.  (BTW, John assures me the color is an
off-vanilla..very nice for meditation.)

Jeff







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 4

                     Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:49:18 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:43:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos


>From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
>Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:26:57 -0800
>Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:59:26 -0500
>Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos


>>Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:19:13 -0800
>>From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos

<snip>

>In THE UFO VERDICT, Robert Sheaffer claims, "Mrs. Trent told the
>Portland Oregonian [apparently June 10, 1950 - KW] that she had
>spotted UFOs along the coast on three different occasions, but
>until the photos were taken 'no one would believe me.' In a
>1967 follow-up interview in the same newspaper, Mrs. Trent
>stated, 'We've seen quite a few since then [1950 - RS], but we
>didn't get any pictures, they disappeared too fast.' "

>If this is true, it would appear that the Trents were
>"repeaters," no?

So? They wouldn't be the first people to think they've seen
UFOs more than once. What exactly is this supposed to prove, if
anything? I have had four sightings in the last 40+ years of
things I couldn't necessarily readily explain, though perhaps
they all ultimately have mundane explanations. Other people
have been struck by lightning more than once, or been in plane
crashes more than once, or shot more than once. This may not be
common, but it happens. Are they therefore "repeaters" and not
to be believed?

The same article, BTW, states that, "The Trents were reluctant
to release them [the photos] for publication saying they were
afraid they would get in trouble with the 'government' and be
bothered by the publicity."

The article further says, "The pictures came to light Friday
after Bill Powell of the McMinnville Telephone Register had
heard them discussed. The Trents had waited to shoot the rest of
the pictures on the roll before having them developed, then had
showed them to some friends. The negatives were found on the
floor under a davenport where Trent children had been playing
with them."

Paul Trent's comment as reported in the Portland "Oregon
Journal" June 10, 1950 was, "I didn't believe all that talk
about flying saucers before, but now I have an idea the army
knows what they are." That doesn't sound like "repeater" talk to
me or somebody who would cook up a hoax for his wife's benefit,
as Klass has charged.

There has never been any evidence that the Trents were publicity
hounds. Many vouched for their veracity. Phil Klass' attack on
the Trents is that they faked the photos to get proof of Mrs.
Trent's other alleged sightings. But in reality, they made no
effort to publicize them.  They waited to shoot up the rest of
the roll of film before developing them. The negatives ended up
temporarily lost under the davenport. They feared publicity and
reaction from the government (Paul Trent thought they were a
government craft). These are hardly the actions of people
anxious to prove that one of them had other sightings.

(In Klassic inconsistent debunking fashion, however, Klass and
Shaeffer attack the Trents for _not_ developing the film right
away. The sighting couldn't have been real if they waited. But
that criticism makes no sense if Klass' other point were valid
-- that the Trent's hoaxed this for publicity to prove that Mrs.
Trent's other sightings were real. Then they would have
developed the film as quickly as possible -- no? So the Trent's
are damned if they do and damned if they don't.)

In another recent post of mine, I mentioned that an older couple
I spoke to who lived near the old Trent place told me that UFO
sightings are extremely common in the area. The husband thought
that maybe half the residents in the area had similar sightings.
I was a little surprised at his statement, because when I first
approached him he seemed like the type who was about to ridicule
the whole subject and the Trent photos.

According to he and his wife, their entire family had had an
unexplained sighting while driving one night. The wife's
parents also had a "mothership" sighting in the area. The wife
swore up and down that her parents would never lie about
something like that. They were too straight.

I know this isn't exactly a scientific sampling, but it was
suggestive that maybe UFO sighitngs were not uncommon in the
McMinnville area. Maybe there was a good reason for Mrs. Trent
being a "repeater."

I also reprinted an article from the McMinnville paper about a
month after the Trent photos were published in which several
fireman from a nearby small town claimed they had just seen a
similar object.

Here's another line from an editorial in the Longview WA "Daily
News," in which they were advancing the theory that the saucers
were a military secret weapon. This was published on June 13,
1950 in the immediate aftermath of the Trent photos. Longview,
BTW, is only about 60 or 70 miles from the Trent place.

Skepticism Wanes As Evidence On 'Flying Saucers' Piles Up

"...So _common_ have reports of the discs become that when this
newspaper carried a story recently about three men working on
the roof of a Longview Fibre Co. building seeing a round flat
craft circling over the mouth of the Cowlitz River, the report
stirred almost no interest whatsoever."

So Mrs. Trent may have been a "repeater." Again I say so what?
If the Longview editorial was to be believed, UFO reports had
become so common in the region at the time of the Trent sighting
that people generally didn't consider them news any more. The
editorial opined that the frequency of sightings could best be
explained by a secret government project, although they also
advanced the possibility of an unknown Soviet craft and even
interplanetary scout craft. But the craft were undoubtably real
and Trent had photographed one.

Calling Mrs. Trent a "repeater" is apparently the best that guys
and like Shaeffer and Klass can come up with because the photos
themselves have withstood extremely intense scrutiny from a lot
of experts. So when you can't attack the evidence, attack the
witnesses, yet another Klassic debunking tactic.

>>The NBC special has shown beyond a doubt
>>that the photos are authentic.

>That's a lot to expect of a program like "Confirmation."

>Their heavy ammunition on this was delivered by Rand Molnar of
>the Brooks Institute of Photography: "There's no sign, no hint
>of anything suspending the object, a thread, a wire. I just
>don't see any threads or any wires there."

>Here, I think NBC missed an opportunity to nail the point down.
>On his post-"Confimation" show the night of the broadcast, Art
>Bell interpreted Molnar's remark as most viewers probably did:
>"They took that one down very well," Art concluded. "Had there
>been a wire, it would have been seen. Simple as that."

>But that's not what Molnar said. He just said he couldn't see
>one. Moreover, threads can be pretty thin. It seems possible to
>my layman's mind that a thread might not have left any trace at
>all in the photograph. It seems to me it would have been nice
>to hear Molnar's opinion on whether a thread would necessarily
>be visible, but NBC apparently thought differently.

Any common thin thread or wire should show up on the negatives
as long as there is a luminance contrast with the background.
Trent might have been very lucky or a hoaxing mastermind in
choosing a color that closely matched the background. A more
likely possibility would have been clear nylon fishing line
which would be readily available and probably invisible in
photos.

If that's all there were to the Trent photos, then we could all
go home. Ah, but there are number of problems with Trent simply
suspending a model from overhead wires with an invisible thread.
As Bruce Maccabee discovered after careful photogrammetric
analysis, any model in the two shots would not have been
suspended from the same point. Trent would have had to move the
model between shots. That again makes Trent a very clever
hoaxer, but one who is also stupid enough to leave the overhead
wires in the photos to give himself away.

When I took a closer look, I discovered other things as well
that work against a model suspended by a thread. The "tower" on
top of the object from which one would likely tie a thread has
not shifted its position between photos, or maybe only slightly
so. Since this projection is offset from the center of the
object, this means there could only have been a very slight
rotation of a model between shots, which I calculated could not
have exceeded 30 degrees in one direction or another. In other
words, Trent had at most only 1 chance in 6 (60 deg/360 deg), in
snapping two successive shots of a small model which hardly
rotated between shots.

Again Trent would have to be lucky.  Or he would have had to
construct a more elaborate suspension system using at least two
threads to minimize rotation. >From the distance Trent had to
snap these photos, the model would have been about 6 inches in
diameter or less, and trying to keep such a tiny model stable
even in a slight breeze is quite a trick.

The "model" is stable in yet another way. The tilt of the
object w.r.t. the horizon is also nearly the same between shots.
But try making a model out of a small paper plate or something
similar like a metal tart pan, attach a "tower," tie a thread at
the end, take it outside, and watch it jump around even in very
mild breezes.

But there is more. Even if it were a dead calm day, Trent would
still have problems maintaining rotation and tilt between
photos. The first photo shows the object as if tilted towards
Trent with the bottom showing. The second shows a nearly
perfect edge-on profile view with the object smaller. The
simplest way for Trent to get the first shot is to stand in
back and underneath the model with camera tilted up and shoot
the bottom of the stationary model from an angle. Then he has
to get the model swinging for the second shot to get the edge on
view. If he has to swing the model, then he has stability
problems again.

Another complication with Trent swinging the model to get the
edge-on shot has to do with the relative angular elevation of
the object in the two pictures. It should be higher in the
second shot, but it's lower.  How did Trent "swing" that?
Sure, in addition to moving his thread, he could also drop the
object down, then swing it. But with each assumption like this
you make, the hoax just gets more and more elaborate. Now
factor in Trent's story that he moved to his right to take the
second picture because the object was moving to his left and
about to disappear behind the roofline of the garage on the
left.

So Trent as hoaxer would have had to notice that the object was
lower in the second photo, something that isn't all that
obvious on casual inspection, and also lower then the peak ridge
of the roofline, and then devise a scenario where the motion and
elevation of the object would be consistent with the reason why
he took a second photo from a different perspective.

And here's yet another subtlety. Simply swinging the model away
from the camera in the second photo cannot account for the
actual angular size difference between shots, a fact pointed out
by Bruce Maccabee. So Trent either has to use two models, a
further elaboration, or to increase the size difference, he has
to swing the model towards the camera in the first shot as well.
Besides having a moving model to deal with again, you would
expect a little motion blur, but none is evident. Instead the
photo is perfectly consistent with Trent's testimony of the
object moving slowly at that point and seeming to tilt up in his
direction.

In addition, the double-swing hoax model would entail that the
tilted model be properly rotated away from the camera to avoid
exposing more of the bottom in the first photo than is seen
(make a model to see what I mean). This would further narrow
the amount of possible rotation about an axis between photos.
Trent has to get luckier to capture the tower in virtually the
same position in the two shots.

So it requires a very elaborate theory of hoaxing to account for
the size difference. Compare this with Trent's story, which can
account for it in a very straightforward way. The object sped
up and was moving away into the distance when he took his second
picture -- simple and consistent. It even explains without
further assumptions the fuzzy trailing edge on the second photo
which might be caused by motion blur.

In summary, if hoaxing,Trent either has to be very lucky to get
two successive shots of a small model with very little rotation
and tilt change and with the observed size difference and
elevation difference, or he has to be very clever and do
something more elaborate. If he has more than one suspension
thread, then he has to move all of these between shots. If he
tries to weight the object with something like metal to help
stablize it, then the translucent model saucer theory proposed
below to account for the light bottom in the first photo won't
work.

In addition, he and Mrs. Trent then have to weave an eyewitness
account of the sighting told a month and then years later which
remains completely consistent with the myriad of little subtle
details in the photos, some of which I haven't even touched on
and which you have to study for some time to even notice.

One of the things that convinced reporter Bill Powell of the
McMinnville "Telephone Register" that the photos were genuine
was reported as follows in the "Oregon Journal," June 10: "Bill
Powell ... said he is convinced the Trent's story is not a
phony. He said he questioned Trent and Mrs. Trent separately
and their stories coincided."

So not only would they have to dream up an eyewitness account
that coincided with the subtle details of the photos, they would
have to get their stories straight so that when repeatedly
questioned their stories remained consistent with one another.

In summary, it's not just the fact that nobody can make out a
thread in the negatives. There's a whole bunch of other subtle
details that go along with simple suspension from a thread that
can't be accounted for in any elegant hoax theory. But they are
all consistent with the simple and straightforward account of
the Trents. To have cooked up such a good alibi, Paul Trent
would have had to have been a criminal mastermind. I don't
think anybody ever accused him of that. The perfect mesh between
the story and the photo details is, IMHO, very powerful evidence
that these photos were not hoaxed.

But go try to delve into these details in a few minutes of
network television. You could easily occupy a two or three day
technical conference examining and debating them.

>However, Molnar also made this point: "I think if it were an
>item very close to the camera, it would have a much darker
>underneath in that one photograph."

>In THE UFO VERDICT, Robert Sheaffer writes:

>"Maccabee points out that there is one simple alternative
>explanation: the model UFO was made of translucent plastic, and
>hence light from the sky could pass through the object and cause
>it to appear brighter than a shaded, opaque object could
>possibly be.

It's rather ironic that Shaeffer would have to cite Bruce
Maccabee's own theory. More likely, Trent would have had to use
a paper plate. I don't think the plastic variety were available
in 1950. Plastics in general were not very common.

I suspect there would also be significant problems with a
translucent model in the illumination being so even across the
bottom. In addition, if you weight a model to help stablize it
in the breeze, then the light will not be able to shine through.

Shaeffer also tried to claim that the light bottom on the model
could be explained by Trent putting a greasy smudge on the
camera lens with his finger. Unfortunately for Shaeffer, such a
smudge would not affect one isolated object in the photo, but
_everything_ in the photo. That's basic optics. Every point in
the image is formed by light passing through the entire lens. So
one would expect the shadows of the metal tank to be lightened
as well. The smudged lens should cause the image to lack
crispness all over. But that's not the case. The close-up oil
tank is sharp focus with lots of luminance contrast, but the UFO
has a hazy, low-contrast look to it, just like the distant
house, barn, trees, and hills.

>The Dutch science writer and UFO skeptic Hans Van
>Kampen has suggested that sunlight reflecting off the metal oil
>tank might account for the brightness of the object's underside.

That would be an interesting trick, considering that the bottom
of the alleged model would have to be slightly tilted _away_
from the metal tank. Did Van Kampen actually do an experiment to
try to reproduce such lighting on a model, or is it yet another
will-o-wisp skeptical theory which was never put to scientific
test?

I should also like to point out that Van Kampen is also
obviously assuming, like Shaeffer, that the pictures were taken
in the morning when the sun was in the east and capable of
casting strong direct light on the tank. But the Trents said the
photos were taken in the evening when the sun was in the west.
All lighting on the tank and east wall of the garage would then
be indirect from scatter off of clouds and dust. In fact, that's
just the way it looks to me, like indirect lighting. There would
be no strong reflection off the tank.

Such indirect lighting can also cause the shadows under the
eaves that Shaeffer makes such a big deal about and claims could
only be caused by morning sun. Bruce Maccabee examined
Shaeffer's claim and found it to be wanting. I have done my own
Junior Scientist experiment using indirect sunlight scattered
off clouds and found it is not difficult at all to produce
distinct shadows.

>Another prosaic and entirely plausible explanation is that the
>Trents had a flashbulb mounted on thkeir camera when the picture
>was taken. Portrait photographers often use a 'fill-in flash'
for daylight shots, to soften harsh shadows.

But how about a poor farmer with little experience in
photography? Would this be something he would likely do? I can
understand an experienced photographer perhaps doing something
like this for portrait photography, but why would Trent use a
flash on a model to soften the shadows? Once again, Trent would
have to be damned lucky or a UFO hoaxing mastermind to do the
right thing.

Here's what Paul Trent's brother had to see about his brother's
photographic ability (again in Portland "Oregon Journal", June
10, 1950):

"Trent's brother Clayton, who lives down the road a short
distance from Paul, said he is as mystified as anyone as to what
the flying object was. But he's sure of one thing: 'He doesn't
know enough about photography to fake something like that.'"

> If the Trents, for
>whatever reason, had an ordinary flashbulb attached to their camera,

I have a photo of Trent holding his box camera that appeared in
the "Oregon Journal" on June 10, 1950 -- no flash attachment,
not that this proves anything.

>it would cause the bottom of the object to appear far
>brighter than expected.

OK, but how about the oil tank which would be at a very similar
distance as a model? Wouldn't it's shadows be softened along
with those of the model, particularly in the second photo when
the angular distance between tank and model would not be so
great?

>(A flashbulb would also explain the
>washed-out appearance of the object in the other photo.)

It would? I seriously doubt a flash could wash it out that much.

>Molnar also said, "There'd probably be more evidence of some
>sort of texture, surface detail."

>"Probably?" That would seem to imply that, under certain
>conditions, we might not see such texture on a close object.

The model would have had to have been less than 10 feet from the
camera. One would expect to see some detail, something like a
seam where Trent glued a piece of paper to his paper plate, or
maybe the seam of a metal pie-pan or small dents or blemishes or
scratches on the surface. Of course, Trent could have been very
careful and made a very smooth, seamless model, but why go
through all that trouble to prove that Mrs. Trent had seen other
objects like it? Would Mr. Trent really expect anybody to
scrutinize the photos that closely?

One would also expect crisp edges on a very close object.
Instead what we have is an object lacking surface detail with
that washed out appearance and fuzzy edges, again totally
consistent with an object off in the distance just like the
Trents said.

>Since Molnar wasn't given an opportunity to nail any of these
>points down, I wonder if Bruce Maccabee would be kind enough to
>offer his opinion.

My opinion is that as you pile on the list of subtle details in
the photos that Trent would have to reproduce through
manipulation of a model and photographic technique or through
just dumb luck, the probably of hoax starts to approach zero.
Now factor in the fact that the Trents' account of what they saw
can reproduce all of these details without making any additional
assumptions. Occam's razor would come into play here. The
simplest theory that can still explain the facts is most likely
to be correct. The Trent photos are best explained by the
Trents seeing and photographing a real unknown object off in the
distance and then reporting what happened as best as they could
recall.

David Rudiak





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 4

                          Re: Remarkable 'Meteors'

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:19:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:49:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Remarkable 'Meteors'


>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 10:40:43 -0800
>From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Remarkable 'Meteors'

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:27:25 -0500
>>Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:37:26 -0500
>>Subject: Remarkable 'Meteors'

>>Barry Greenwood has claimed that the "remarkable meteors" seen
>>by crew members of the USS Supply in 1904 actually were meteors.
>>My calculations suggest that they were "too remarkable" to be
>>meteors.>


>>[] REMARKABLEmeteor.txt

><snip>

>>The "bottom line" on the meteor hypothesis is that it is
>>strained, at the very least, by the observation that they
>>appeared to travel beneath the clouds (considering the 90% cloud
>>cover), strained even further by the observation that the
>>angular motion ceased and they appeared to travel directly away
>>from the ship, and finally it is rejected by the reported
>>duration of over 2 minutes.>

>Long duration meteors should be of great interest to scientists.
>Some examples would be:

Thanks, Jan, for commenting on my meteors article.

>Toronto to Bermuda 1913

This is the "meteor progression" studied by Chant (meteoricist)
The time duration of a refers not to the sighting of a single
meteor from a single location, but rather to the time that the
dozens of meteors were seen passing through the sky.


>South Atlantic 1922>

>West and Colorado Sept 1950

>The last is a break up of the meteor with pieces "flying" in a
>"formation."

>Duration of three minutes have been reported. How accurate
>these durations might be open to question. Satellite velocity,
>"double dippers," and grazing meteors might actually exceed the
>two minutes.

"Satellite velocity" meteors "don't exist"....Any meteor
approaches the earth from outer space and gains speed as it
approaches. By the time it reaches atmosphere dense enough to
glow it is going faster than orbital velocity at the glow
altitude. Hence, if it comes in at a grazing angle it will
either burn up or continue back to outer space. (I suppose in a
rare situation it might lose enough energy to friction and be
traveling in just the right direction to be captured into an
elliptical orbit.) If it comes in at a steeper angle it will
penetrate the atmosphere and burn up or land.

In the case of the USS Supply the 2 - 3 minute duration was for
viewing from the horizon to overhead. IN my article I pointed
out that a duration this long was unexpected even for meteors
seen from horizon to overhead to horizon.

In the olden days ( :) ) people sometimes didn't differentiate
between a meteor and a train behind it (glowing material that
could exist for minutes). Hence one must be careful in assigning
long durations to meteors. IN the USS Supply case we know there
was no train behind each "meteor" because each was ascribed a
specific size (relative the angular size of the sun).

>Certainly among the database of UFO sightings are examples of
>these rare occurrences. The last scientist who actively sought
>this data from the Project Blue Book and NICAP and other UFO
>organizations was Dr. Charles Olivier.

>(BTW The Boelender (sp?) Memo was inaccurate as the American
>Meteor Society through Olivier regularly requested data from the
>Air Force's UFO investigation. Quintanilla was aware of this.)

Bolender Memo

>Olivier also regularly provided NICAP with observations he
>received which were not meteors.

>In any case, "remarkable meteors" in the UFO files should have
>been reason enough to look at UFO records despite Condon's
>recommendation.

I studied meteor visibiliy durations 20 years ago in respose to
(a) the USS Supply sighting and (b) the Coyne/helicopter case of
Oct. 1973 wherein it was proposed by PGuess KWho that Coyne et
al saw a fireball passing overhead. (As I recall the time
estimate for the Coyne sighting was 3 minutes.)






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 4

                    Re: 'Confirmation' - Implant Analysis

From: Bill Weber <koran@cchat.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 22:27:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:55:13 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Confirmation' - Implant Analysis


Hi, All,

The recent 'Confirmation' special had a segment on analysis of
an alleged implant.

Can anyone, in layman's terms, help me understand the nature of
the analysis?

From my own faulty memory, the special stated that the object
was of no known chemical composition. What does that mean? I
also remember some figure stated, something on the order of "no
match out of 62,000 known compositions."

This 'machine', whatever it is, must have _some_ error rate.
Does the technology give false results? How often?

Does anyone know how many times they ran the test on the object?
Is 62,000 known chemical compositions a lot, or is it too few to
mean much?

Can anyone here help out the scientifically challenged?

Sincerely,

Bill






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 4

                     Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:22:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:02:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos


>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:43:27 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

Bruce wrote:

>>From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos
>>Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:26:57 -0800

>Supposing that they did hoax the one sighting (two photos) for
>whatever reason. Then, if they claim to have seen UFOs again,
>why not create more hoax photos? After all the first photos
>brought them nationwide notoriety but no money. Perhaps the next
>set might bring them fortune as well as fame....

[...]

>Fact is, the Trents were "too lazy" as some have put it and
>sufficiently mentally challenged to be able to even contemplate
>such a thing.


Bruce,

Is there perhaps a paradox here?

Accepting the Trents were 'simple folks', an attribute which
would solve many of the world's problems, and, let's also assume
their photographs are absolutely genuine, then they achieved
something which has eluded the combined efforts of all the
world's astronomers, physicists, scientists per se, air forces,
ufologists.. you name it.. [excluding any 'cover up' of course].

Not only capturing the clear image of a 'flying saucer' on film,
they were able to take two photographs, from alternative
positions and showing the 'saucer' at differing angles.

Even with the arguable inclusion of 'dual' photographs from
Adamski, Meier, Ed Walters et al.. this is still an almost
unprecedented accomplishment.

Adamski, Meier, Walters and others who profess to have
frequently obtained detailed photographs of 'UFOs', don't
normally come into the category of 'simple folks'.


So, if their photographs truly depict a 'craft' from 'elsewhere'
the Trents have, if not unique, a prodigious place in our
history.

How many times have we heard witnesses to 'UFOs' lament that
they had a camera or camcorder available, yet never thought
about this until later.

That will happen of course and the Trents not only saw a 'UFO',
they had the presence of mind which has eluded so many others,
found the camera, fortuitously already loaded with film, and
despite the intervening time, were able to focus the objects
perfectly as they passed in front of the farm.

That may well be exactly what happened.

However, point being, it does seem to elevate them from being
merely 'simple folks' and indicates they were in fact astute,
recognising a significant photographic opportunity which many
others haven't and had a technical ability which most
photographers would applaud, given the circumstances and basic
equipment available.

The Trents were perhaps therefore somewhat smarter than we might
perceive given their rustic background.


Smart enough to pull off a hoax.. we'll never know.

Would you however agree it does seem to be evidenced that your
comments:

"Fact is, the Trents were "too lazy" as some have put it and
sufficiently mentally challenged to be able to even contemplate
such a thing"

do not equate with what you believe they did achieve?



James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com






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   Mar > Mar 4

                        Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy

From: Alfred & Geri Webre <Ecotoday@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:43:49 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:00:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy


>Subj: UFO UpDate: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy
>Date: 99-03-03 13:04:32 EST
>From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)

>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<snip>

>>Not sure what Dorothy Kilgallen has to do with UFOs?

>David,

>Oddly enough, a fair bit...

>Kilgallen had involved herself with the subject since at least
>1947. [see below]

>According to Clifford Stone's research of non-UFO-related CIA
>documents [are you there Clifford?]:

>Kilgallen had been told by Marilyn Monroe, three days before
>Monroe died, that "she was about to call a press conference to
>reveal that she had proof of what JFK had told her about a UFO
>crash in New Mexico from which some of the dead alien bodies
>were recoverd."

>I'm including some excerpts from various sources which refer to
>Kilgallen from my archives here.

>ebk

<snip>

>A report by Dorothy Kilgallen in Journal American (042) 22 May
>1955, has often been used as corroborating evidence for the
>Spitsbergen crash story. However, Kilgallen did not mention
>Spitsbergen at all. In addition, her message was picked to
>pieces in the Washington Post (046) of 24 May 1955.


The Who's Who of UFOs reports at:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/AndyPage/killian.htm

"Dorothy Kilgallen an American Journalist for the International
New Service published the following famous report (although now
considered to be a case of disinformation) on May 22nd 1955.

"She [Dorothy Kilgallen] wrote:

'British scientists and airmen, after examining the wreckage of
one mysterious flying ship, are convinced these strange aerial
objects are not optical illusions or Soviet inventions, but are
flying saucers which originate on another planet.

'The source of my information is a British official of Cabinet
rank who prefers to remain unidentified. 'We believe, on the
basis of our inquiry thus far, that the saucers were staffed by
small men - probably under four feet tall. It's frightening, but
there is no denying the flying saucers come from
another planet.'

'The official quoted scientists as saying a flying ship of this
type could not possibly have been constructed on earth. The
British Government, I learned, is withholding an official report
on the 'flying saucer' examination at this time, possibly
because it does not wish to frighten the public.'"

[End of Kilgallen quote]

Note on HSCA and UFOs

Having worked as a CoDirector of the watchdog Assassination
Information Bureau during the HSCA investigation of the JFK
assassination, I can attest that HSCA staff assembled documents
in a "positivist-rationalist" mentality, to put it mildly.  HCSA
possessed neither the consciousness nor the inclination to
establish a possible UFO connection to the JFK assassination.
In many ways, it was the Warren Commission with spin.

Alfred & Geri Webre
Vancouver, BC





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   Mar > Mar 4

                         Re: Trent and Rouen Images

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:21:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:08:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images


Regarding:

>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:51:41 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images

Dave wrote:

>>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:54:27 -0500
>>Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:09:40 -0500
>>Subject: Trent and Rouen Images

>>My conclusion - it was relatively easy to create a close match
>>and basically requires the dimensions of the Trent image to be
>>slightly 'stretched' lengthways.

>>Given that there seems to be no documented record of where the
>>Rouen photograph originated and as it's almost identical to the
>>Trent image in the first place, I wondered if the 'Rouen
>>photograph' was in fact intended to have been a copy of the
>>'Trent saucer'.

>>If so, perhaps when it had been copied in the 1950s, the
>>'duplicate' wasn't exact, became slightly stretched and some of
>>the precise detail wasn't mirrored in the copying process. This
>>is maybe easier to see in the graphics file.


>Oh, come on!  Even stretched, diced, sliced, shredded and
>otherwise manipulated, the Rouen photograph very obviously is
>_not_ a simple copy of the Trent photo in many respects
>(curvature of the rim, relative rim size, tower size, shape and
>detail, clarity of image, graininess, etc.).


Dave,

As we know the 'Rouen' image isn't an exact copy of the 'Trent
saucer', that was never a contention.

If it was, there would be little point in undertaking the
exercise of considering, as I said, "how much image manipulation
was required to make a 'Rouen' photograph from the Trent image".

We shouldn't really call the 'Rouen' image a photograph as
there's no evidence it ever originated from a separate source.

That it's conceivably a "simple copy" depends on whether a copy
of that 'Trent saucer' image could end up looking like the later
'Rouen' image, apparently first published in 1957, and how
easily that could be achieved, intentionally or otherwise.

We should also keep in mind that the 'saucer' depicted on the
related Trent photograph needs to be 'blown up' before it
matches the 'Rouen' image.


Ideally, one experiment would be to make several duplicates of
the Trent 'saucer' image using a range of enlargement, copying
and printing equipment available from circa 1950s technology.

How many factors, such as the type of equipment, the operators
proficiency, etc. might affect the end result?

Would each enlarged duplicate be an exact copy, or maybe we
would in fact discover variances in all of them.

If there was a significant difference in only one of them, then
that's sufficient evidence to indicate an inexact, 'simple' copy
was possible and could later be published as a similar, yet
different, 'photograph'.


A point was, any variances in the 'Rouen' image were perhaps
completely unintentional, it may have been a misrepresented,
enlarged and cropped image from that 'Trent' photograph.


If an enlarged copy of the 'Trent saucer' would, as you suggest,
always be recognisable as such, then why does the "colour
contouring" duplicate shown .. see:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/rouen.jpg

begin to look more like the 'Rouen' image?



>Anyway, thanks for the demonstration.

Appreciated you found it of interest.



James.





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   Mar > Mar 4

                   Re: The Verdict On The 'Implant' X-Rays

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 00:23:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:22:35 -0500
Subject: Re: The Verdict On The 'Implant' X-Rays


Hi All,

As promised, here are the results of the examination of the
x-rays that were submitted for analysis.

Apparently what shows up in the pix is a 'headband' of some
sort.

I will return the x-rays and the test results to the gentleman
that submitted them originally.

We're still waiting for the results of tests on other objects
that were submitted at the same time. I just think it's
important to have any of these items that are related to UFO
cases analysed by independant experts.

Thanx Nick! You are performing an invaluable service.

John Velez
==================


Nick's report:

Subject: Medical x-rays (FYIO)
X-X-Sender: nikolaos@postoffice.yorku.ca


Hi John.

Tomorrow I will send the three medical x-rays back to you by
mail unless instructed otherwise.

Included with the x-rays you will find three contact prints of
these x-rays that were made for me by a York U. staff
photographer (Gorden Temple) as well as marked photocopies of
these three contact prints. You will also find a magnified photo
of the implant visible in the side view x-ray.

I also included an elastic hair band which I believe is
reponsible for the implant images seen in the three medical
x-rays (see below for details).

The number "1" and the red arrows on these photocopies identify
the location of the implant.  The implant is clearly visible in
the front and back views of the head region.  In the side view,
the implant is visible only in very bright light (with an
incandescent light bulb or the sun).  The dimensions of the
implant measured directly from the x-rays and contact prints
were:

        Front view full width of image: 10/100 inch,
        full length of image: 46/100 inch.

        Back view full width of image: 11/100 inch,
        full length of image: 45/100 inch.

        Side view full width of image: 10/100 inch,
        full length of image: 35/100 inch.

Since typical medical x-rays are taken at distances from ranging
from about 40 inches to about 6 feet, the images are nearly life
size.

The implant is horizontal and is seen almost exactly lengthwise
in the front and back views and at an angle in the side view
(this is why the side view has a shorter measured length).  The
more opaque outline around the implant in the front and back
views suggests that it is cylindrical in shape and hollow.  The
side view of the implant shows this to be true.  Note that in
the side view, the implant does not have round ends (or
elliptical looking ends when viewed at an angle) but flattened
ends and a non-perfect cylindrical shape.  This as well as the
horizontal orientation are important facts in the identification
of the implant (see below for more details).

The number "2" and the red arrows identify the location of metal
fillings in the upper and lower teeth.  Comparing the different
x-ray opacity of the bones and the solid metal tooth fillings to
the implant, we were able to see that the implant was not as
opaque as the fillings but more opaque than the bones.

The number "3" and the red arrow identify the location of some
"bone fragments or calcified matter".  By aligning the Atlas
bone (where the head rests on at the top of the spine) with the
fixed upper row of teeth, we see that the location of the
implant in the front view agrees with the location of the
implant in the back and side views. This was verified by
examining an adult human skeleton in our Biology Department.
The calcified matter in the side view is much too low to be
mistaken for the same implant seen on the other two x-rays.
Both the implant and the calcified matter in the side view were
pointed out to me by the Program Co-ordinator of Radiology (Sue
Crowley) at The Michener Institute for Applied Health Sciences.

The number "4" and the red dash line outline the border of "soft
tissue" such as muscle or fat.  Note that the calcified matter
is within the soft tissue (i.e. in the patient's body) but the
implant is clearly outside the body.  The implant is not really
an implant after all.

Since this implant is outside and directly behind the patient's
head well above the back of the neck, it is unlikely to be some
sort of clasp for a decorative rope for the neck (which would be
invisible in x-rays of this exposure) but could be one of the
many similar elastic hair bands with a metal piece like the one
enclosed.  The elastic and cloth material of the hair band would
also be invisible in x-rays of this exposure.

The metal piece in the hair band I am sending you has the same
appearance, shape and nearly the same size (about 1/8 inch by
1/2 inch) as the implant in the x-rays and is located behind the
head where such a metal piece would be expected to be seen if it
were part of an elastic hair band.  It seems that the implant
has now been identified, within reasonable doubt.

Any UFO experience(s) the patient claims to have had is not
disproved by our findings that the implant was outside the body
and was likely the metal piece of an elastic hair band.  I think
one can safely conclude though that there was no connection
between the implant in the x-rays and the patient's UFO
experience(s).

If you have any comments or would like a more detailed report,
please let me know.  I am still waiting for others to inform me
of their findings on the beadlike object and the compass before
returning these items to you.  Sorry for the delays but with new
UFO physical evidence coming to me about once every week, my
work is exciting but very time consuming too.

Bye for now.

Nick Balaskas





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   Mar > Mar 4

                     Re: E-Mail Address For Ann Druffel

From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:19:52 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:27:34 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Mail Address For Ann Druffel


I am trying to find out if Ann Druffel has an e-mail address.

If anyone could pass it on to me I would be most grateful.

Regards,


John Hayes

jhayes@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com
UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/
UFOICQ Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:-
        http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/





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   Mar > Mar 4

                        Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy

From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 05:50:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:32:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>From: David Lynn <Davus@cgo.wave.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:47:50 -0500

>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 05:51:08 -0500
>From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy
>To: "updates@globalserve.net" <updates@globalserve.net>

>According to Clifford Stone's research of non-UFO-related CIA
>documents [are you there Clifford?]:

>Kilgallen had been told by Marilyn Monroe, three days before
>Monroe died, that "she was about to call a press conference to
>reveal that she had proof of what JFK had told her about a UFO
>crash in New Mexico from which some of the dead alien bodies
>were recovered."

<snip>

>ebk

In fact the CIA document dated 3 August 1962 states that during
Marilyn Monroes phone tapping Howard Rothberg (a close friend)
discussed with Kilgallen that Monroe had secrets to tell. These
included the presidents visit to a 'secret air base' to inspect
'things from outer space'. Kilgallen during this discussion
thought she may know the source of the visit, and the document
states that Kilgallen said she had heard in the mid-fifties that
there was a secret effort by US and UK governments to identify
the origins of the crashed craft in New Mexico. The document
doesn't state there was any proof of Monroe's 'stories'.

Kilgallen had previously published the following report on
22nd May 1955:

"British scientists and airmen, after examining the wreckage of
one mysterious flying ship, are convinced these strange aerial
objects are not optical illusions or Soviet inventions, but are
flying saucers which originate on another planet. The source of
my information is a British official of Cabinet rank who prefers
to remain unidentified. 'We believe, on the basis of our inquiry
thus far, that the saucers were staffed by small men - probably
under four feet tall. It's frightening, but there is no denying
the flying saucers come from another planet.' The official
quoted scientists as saying a flying ship of this type could not
possibly have been constructed on earth. The British Government,
I learned, is withholding an official report on the 'flying
saucer' examination at this time, possibly because it does not
wish to frighten the public."

Tony





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   Mar > Mar 4

                           Opening the Lost Tombs

From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:11:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:35:11 -0500
Subject: Opening the Lost Tombs


>IUFO  Mailing List
>From: MT <theroux@borderlands.com>
>Subject: Opening the Lost Tombs
>Date: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 2:50 PM

>Check out this site:

>http://www.enterprisemission.com/opentomb.html


These glyphs, actually long known to Rosicrucians, are indeed
representations of ancient Egyptian high technology.  What's not
clear is why Hoagland is deliberately misrepresenting them.
Surely he can't believe it will escape the public's notice that
the object to the right of the helicopter, which he compares to
the Millenium Falcon, is, in actuality, a perfect rendering of a
pocket knife with its awl protruding. These were very popular
among the "Young Falcon's" -- the Old Kingdom's equivalent of
Boy Scouts.

The "Star Wars' ship" just below it is, in fact, nothing more
than a toy submarine.  Once Egytian mothers filled this with
household baking soda, it would dive and surface in their young
sons' bathwater.  These toys were obtainable by means of papyrus
coupons accompanying certain brands of barley cereal, and much
sought-after by mothers of recalcitrant bathers.

The helicopter itself was not a toy, but a sophisticated troop
transport aircraft.  Unfortunately, this one led to a
procurement scandal that nearly brought down a dynasty.
Hoagland is apparently confident no one will study this glyph in
detail, because careful examination reveals that its designers
neglected to include a floorboard for the troop compartment.
When the population of draft-age males actually began to decline
as a result, Pharoah was forced to mothball the entire fleet at
great expense.

Most puzzling is how Hoagland could imagine viewers would be
blind to the image of the primitive saxophone to the left of the
helicopter.  The ancient association of music with magick is
well known to scholars.  In this case, the warning is
unmistakeable.  According to Arthur Waite's Handbook Of Egyptian
Curses, the meaning of this configuration is: should these
sacred glyphs be revealed by any nation whose ruler is
associated with saxophones, said nation will suffer the dreaded
curse of "KK" (whatever that means) before the year is out.

Kind regards,

Keith





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   Mar > Mar 4

                       'Tibor Nagy Moon Film' Inquiry

From: Mike Farrell <mikefarr@midcoast.com.au>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 23:59:39 +1100
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:44:08 -0500
Subject: 'Tibor Nagy Moon Film' Inquiry


Friday, March 5th

Hello Fellow Researchers,

This is Australia calling!

I'm appealing to all of you out there to help us verify the
cameraman and place of this unique footage of the moon's surface
supposedly taken by an "abductee" aboard a spacecraft in 1954!

We have been unable to locate the abductee, Tibor Nagy, in the
literature. Evidently, he is still alive. And can anyone in
America tell us where this place, Grand Central Crossroads, near
Cape Town, is located?

My information says it's in the State of Massachusetts, but I
need that verified.

One of our best UFO investigative researchers, Warren Aston, is
going to the States in a month or so, and would like to track
down this abductee and his daughter (wife passed away) and see
the original film for himself. As far as we know, there's been
no report of this incident in the UFO literature from the
States. So, either, this is a college film prank, or it's an
unknown UFO case that's long overdue for validation and
documentation.

Whatever light you can shed on this matter will be greatly
appreciated. Let's find out the Truth about this one!
For your reference, the transcript of this short film is below:

Thank You very much,

Mike Farrell

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Director of Project GUFONE '99
(Global UFO Newsvideo Exchange)
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw/mikes.htm
http://www.ufor.asn.au
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
P.O.Box 2526
Port Macquarie
New South Wales 2444
Australia
___________________________________

The Tibor Nagy Moon Film Of 1954

Recently, a well-known and respected UFO researcher from Perth
sent me an amazing film that if true, would certainly make you
think twice about the early 'space race' and the current mission
of NASA to find our 'Origins'.

This French made film in 1991 was shown on the SBS series called
'Eat Carpet', as part of the 'Forbidden Files' collection. It is
9 minutes long and features interviews, newsreels, senate
hearings, and most important, real film footage from 1954.

The man who took this film of the moon's surface 15 years before
man set foot on our closest planetary neighbor is named Tibor
Nagy. He was born on April 15, 1914 at Pecs, Hungary. He is a
mechanic by profession and in 1941, he settles in Grand Central
Crossroads, near Cape Town in the state of Massachusetts, USA.
In 1945, he marries Helen Bates, a war widow, mother of his
daughter Esther, and owner of a gas filing station. He was
unable to speak English properly until 1975.

The film starts 36 years earlier on April 15, 1954. It's Tibor's
40th birthday, and he is taking his family to visit his wife's
sister in the next town of Woolworth, about an hour's drive
away. He takes the old rural road and about 25 miles along the
deserted highway at 10:15 in the morning, something strange
happens that changes his life and his family forever. In his own
words, Tibor says=85

"We were alone on the road when a huge shadow stopped right
above us and brought our car to a standstill=85'nothing would
work'=85My wife screamed! My daughter, then 12 years old, started
crying. I told them not to be afraid and then it seemed like
'night fell all around us'. Then I 'don't remember' how much
later...I opened my eyes and we were all in the car and the car
was in a large white room, which was 'vibrating' gently. I got
out of the car and suddenly right in front of me I saw the moon
coming at me. So I took out my camera, which I always took with
me when we go out to visit, and I filmed. I was shaking with
fear. Good god, was I frightened!" (end of quote)



When called before Senator Lawley's Committee of Inquiry at a
hearing on May 6, 1954, Tibor testified in Hungarian. The
members of the Board took this for displaced nationalism, and
saw in it a lack of patriotism. From the very first hearing,
Tibor was not believed. Two months later, a second
reconstruction hearing was arranged. Its conclusions remain a
secret.

Tibor testified to the following=85

"At the same moment I was filming, my daughter woke up and I had
to explain to her that I believed we had been picked up by a
flying craft. Then a man stepped into the room. He seemed like
us, but he was wearing a helmet on his head and I couldn't see
his face. He didn't say anything--but we 'understood' that we
need not be afraid. And that I could film whatever I saw, but
not the inside of the ship. I remember perfectly saying=85yes,
sir=85and my daughter yelling=85'we're higher than the moon'. I
watched and filmed. I filmed until I was out of film. Then I
felt like we were 'falling'.

"When I opened my eyes, both my wife and daughter were in the
back of the car, where before, my wife was in front and just my
daughter was in back. We were a few meters away from a road 'we
didn't know', which turned out to be some miles from where we
were taken. I turned to my wife and daughter, saying that God
wants to test us--be brave!"  (end of quote)

Within 4 years, his wife dies of a disease and his daughter
leaves him to marry and move up to Canada, never to see her
father again. But not before they all faced the ridicule of the
press and public alike. Their car was spray painted with the
words, "The First Man on the Moon", while the back of their
daughter's shirt had the words "moonface" painted on it. Tibor
never changed his story and vowed to remain in the place where
he had been taken, so that one day if they returned, he would be
ready to get the proof needed to show that he, Tibor Nagy, was
not a liar!

So ever since that day in 1954, Tibor waits in the place where
they set him down. Over the years, the village has grown in
population, but there is still an exclusion zone around his
garage. His followers have named him, the "Madman of the
Crossroads", but not in a derogatory way. On the contrary, Tibor
is respected as a man who has met God in person, and as if one
were setting foot in a shrine on that day, where in remembrance
of all his trials, he shows his film. Then you see about 50
people crowded in a small barn like space, sitting on folding
chairs and standing around the sides, as Tibor rolls the film.


What we then see is 40 seconds of film that shows what looks to
us today like the surface of the moon, very similar to films
taken by NASA fly-overs and landings. You see realistic looking
craters and dirt and mounds below you. And as the camera reaches
the horizon, you see the blackness of space and the Earth rising
beyond. That's the spooky part, as it appears very similar to
films taken by the astronauts when they flew around the moon and
then saw the earth in the sky over the moon for the first time.
Thus far, no one has been able to pick out any recognizable
craters to compare to more recent footage. Observations of this
1954 film by astronomers have been inconclusive.

The publicity given this affair back in 1954 was a kind of
protection for Tibor Nagy, but others were less fortunate. Two
years after Tibor's "abduction", the residents of a small hamlet
situated 2 miles from the isolated road where Tibor had been
carried off and about which nothing was ever asked during the
investigation, were themselves evacuated. And sometime later the
houses were burned and the road that led to them completely
obliterated. Why did "they" want to wipe out so badly all trace
of the Nagy affair?

"My true country is the moon.
That's where I want to lay me down".  (Tibor Nagy - 1991)





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   Mar > Mar 4

                         Dorothy Kilgallen and UFOs

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 08:11:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 11:15:03 -0500
Subject: Dorothy Kilgallen and UFOs


EBK and list;

Regarding Dorothy Kilgallen and UFOs, here may be some helpful
info on the situation.

My interest in this was due to the report available there
(already mentioned by EBK). The source is listed as Mr. Todd
Biggs, it states:

=============

May, 1947 - Spitzbergen, Norway

A report by journalist Dorothy Kilgallen stated that British
scientists  and airmen were excavating the wreckage of a
mysterious flying ship. The Swedish military acknowledged its
extraterrestrial origin and reported 17 bodies were found. The
story appeared as a tiny blip for only one day in the U.S. news
media before it was silenced by the military. I personally saw
this news story years ago.

==============

In trying to verify the claim of a Kilgallen article briefly
referencing a Spitzbergen, Norway 'mysterious flying ship'
wreck, I conducted a little library investigation to validate
the data some time ago.

Through correspondence with two knowledgeable Kilgallen
historians/researchers that I located, neither were familiar
with the material referenced. I was told that during May of
1947, her articles were not yet syndicated nationally, appearing
exclusively in the newspaper entitled: "The New York Journal
American."

With some bureaucratic difficulty and through an 'Interlibrary
Loan,' I acquired 5-microfilm copies of The New York Journal
American from Texas University. The microfilm from April of 1947
through June of 1947 were reviewed at the Hamilton County Public
Library in September of 1998, and for a nearly 4-hour duration,
each Kilgallen article during this 1947 time period was
reviewed. Her daily 'Broadway' column did contain brief segments
and topics of varying interest, yet there was no such
"mysterious flying ship" reference by Kilgallen from her columns
within this time period that I was able to locate.

There is a Kilgallen article, however, which appears in
newspapers across the United States dated May 23, 1955. This
article also appears on the front page of The Cincinnati
Enquirer, from which I have a copy. The article quotes a
'confidential source,' being a British official of cabinet rank,
and a most unusual story is told to her.

Enclosed below is the text of her article:

=============

Those "Little Men" On Flying Saucers? Real, Says Kilgallen

Remember the creepy stories about flying saucers and little men
from outer space? Dorothy Kilgallen has run into a new one in
London. Here is her dispatch to the New York Journal-American on
what a British official thinks about those "little fellows."

By Dorothy Kilgallen
Distributed by International News Service

London, May 22 - British scientists and airmen, after examining
the wreckage of a mysterious "flying ship," are convinced that
these strange aerial objects are not optical illusions or Soviet
inventions, but actually are flying saucers which originate on
another planet.

The source of my information is a British official of cabinet
rank who prefers to remain unidentified.

"We believe, on the basis of our inquiries thus far, that the
'saucers' were staffed by small men - probably under four feet
tall," my informant told me today.

"It's frightening but there is no denying the flying saucers
come from another planet."

This official quoted scientists as saying a flying ship of this
type could not have been constructed on earth.

The British government, I learned, is withholding an official
report on the "flying saucer" examination at this time, possibly
because it does not wish to frighten the public.

When my husband, Richard Kollmer (Broadway producer and radio
commentator) and I arrived here for a brief vacation, I had no
premonition that I would be catapulting myself into the
controversy over whether flying saucers are real or imaginary.

In the United States, all kinds of explanations have been
advanced.

But no responsible official of the U.S. Air Force has yet
intimated the mysterious flying ships had actually vaulted from
outer space.

End of article

==================

After review of the information and Kilgallen articles from
April until June of 1947, I am satisfied that any reference of a
Spitzbergen, Norway crash of a 'mysterious flying ship' does not
appear in her articles. The Spitzenbergen reference must
therefore have appeared in articles from another time-period, if
at all, and not in the May, 1947 date indicated in the Biggs'
message posted on the internet.

It may be possible that the author of this material could have
worked from memory to recall the article, but instead of May,
1947, actually had the May, 1955 article in mind instead. It is
rather strange that someone would get this confused with the
specific location of Spitzbergen, Norway, however, as there is
nothing within the 1955 piece to lead one to recall this
exacting location.

Unless a more specific date is acquired regarding a Kilgallen
article referencing a Spitzbergen recovery, it could be very
possible that this information is baseless and untrue.

Further information regarding the Kilgallen/UFO connection have
been
located at the following URL:

http://tandq.enterprises.future.easyspace.com/

There, in a segment entitled: "CASE HISTORY No. 1: The British
Roswell," the author states:

"Retired diplomat and intelligence officer Gordon Creighton
said he believed Kilgallen's source [for the 1955 article] was
Lord Louis Mountbatten.

Kilgallen's story was backed up by Dr Olavo Fontes, a Brazilian
UFO researcher of the 1950's.

I am interested in gathering more information on Fontes,
Mountbatten and Creighton, any tips are appreciated...

Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/





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   Mar > Mar 4

                         Re: Nick Pope's Weird World

From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:26:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 12:38:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Nick Pope's Weird World


>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 04:50:01 +0000
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World


Extracts from Nick Pope's 'What I Thought Next' e-zine have been
quite interesting vis a vis the recent musings on his
'abduction' experience.

> Jenny Randles is claiming that details about
>Peters true identity were in a rough first draft of Open Skies,
>Closed Minds, which was shown to her by one of the publishers
>originally invited to bid for the manuscript.  If true, this seems to
>me to be a decidedly unprofessional thing for a publisher to have
>done.

Surely Nick can't believe this practice is 'unprofessional'.
Most, if not all, publishers, send out ms to authors in the same
field for their opinions as to whether or not they are worthy of
publication. It happens all the time.

> But that would pale into insignificance when set against the
>idea that Jenny Randles would subsequently leak details from this
>manuscript, and tell another ufologist details about the identity of
>a witnesses, when she knew the witness didnt want their identity
>revealed.

But she didn't tell me the identity of the witness. She told me
(and many other ufologists) that the story was in Nick's first
book. There's much more to this than meets the eye. Nick wanted
to play the ufological game and now is miffed because he has
been caught out being somewhat disingenuous. I spoke to Jenny
yesterday and she is preparing a statement which will, I think,
amuse and entertain Pope watchers everywhere.

>But this is precisely what Andy Roberts claimed
>happened, and if Andy believes this story, then he too is
>speculating on the identity of a witness who he knows full well
>doesnt want to discuss the affair.

It did happen. I believe it because it's true.

>Sorry, but even if I was Peter,
>there can be no exceptions to witness confidentiality.  Any serious
>ufologist should know this.

Obviously I and the other UK ufologists who believe that Nick's
story should be out in the open, rather than letting him tease,
are not 'serious ufologists' (wonderful expression, ufologists
have used it for ages as a way of putting themselves above other
ufologists). About time we had some frivolous ufology if you ask
me.

>(you know, actually investigating a case - something
> the anoraks seem to have forgotten how to do, now theyre too
>busy bitching at me all the time).

Utter nonsense - the 'anoraks' Nick refers to have all
investigated- and solved, surely the object of the exercise-
countless cases. And anyway we are 'fleeces' not anoraks these
days.

>Thats it.  Thats my side of the story, and thats all Im going
>to say, ever.

I suggest we treasure this phrase against the rigours of time
and forgetfulness. I'm sure we'll need it again at a later stage
;-)

> So please, no obsessive picking over every little
>phrase, looking for hidden meaning, and no nerdy analysis of
>every last word Ive written, looking for sarcastic little debating
>points to score.

But when it reveals so much about author and subject matter Nick
it's excatly what we should be doing.

>Instead, try a radical concept, like investigating
>a UFO sighting.  Or is that a bit too tricky?

When Nick publishes one, just one, in-depth, and note I say
in-depth, not just anecdotal, UFO sighting report, then we might
take his prattle seriously. Until then, whilst real ufological
research among the fleeces goes on apace, we must leave Nick to
his next book - a fictional account of UFOs vs the Earth or some
such nonsense.

Serious ufology?
I think not.

Happy Trails






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   Mar > Mar 4

                     Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos

From: Judith Dale <judithdale@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 08:57:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 12:42:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos


>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:22:45 -0500
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<snip>

>Bruce,

>Is there perhaps a paradox here?

>Accepting the Trents were 'simple folks', an attribute which
>would solve many of the world's problems, and, let's also assume
>their photographs are absolutely genuine, then they achieved
>something which has eluded the combined efforts of all the
>world's astronomers, physicists, scientists per se, air forces,
>ufologists.. you name it.. [excluding any 'cover up' of course].

>Not only capturing the clear image of a 'flying saucer' on film,
>they were able to take two photographs, from alternative
>positions and showing the 'saucer' at differing angles.

<snip>

>How many times have we heard witnesses to 'UFOs' lament that
>they had a camera or camcorder available, yet never thought
>about this until later.

>That will happen of course and the Trents not only saw a 'UFO',
>they had the presence of mind which has eluded so many others,
>found the camera, fortuitously already loaded with film, and
>despite the intervening time, were able to focus the objects
>perfectly as they passed in front of the farm.

>That may well be exactly what happened.

>However, point being, it does seem to elevate them from being
>merely 'simple folks' and indicates they were in fact astute,
>recognising a significant photographic opportunity which many
>others haven't and had a technical ability which most
>photographers would applaud, given the circumstances and basic
>equipment available.

Greetings All,

The Trents are long gone, so we will never know for sure, using
our ordinary methods and senses, if their infamous photo is a
true record of an 'alien craft'. Gee, too bad we can't just go
and harass them with the endless questions of true skeptics.
Well, I guess this  current, nit picking, harangue of the
statements made by those who talked with them, will just have to
suffice.

The fact that they were 'simple folks', does not in my mind,
negate the possibility they had the presence of mind to not only
snap one picture of the object, but two. According to their
statements, they thought what they were seeing was odd. Doesn't
take a genius to figure out that a strange looking object in the
sky might be unusual or odd, thus worthy of capturing on film.
Heck, maybe, they did fake the whole thing. However, the
preponderance of evidence does seem to indicate otherwise.
Infact, the fact that they were 'simple' and 'mentally
challenged' may be the strongest points in their favor. In my
experience working with folks who are 'simple', I've been struck
by the lack of intellectual clutter that can get in the way of
decisive action. At any rate, they certainly seem to have been
functional enough to run a little farm of sorts, and have a good
life. Simplicity has its merits.

This debate over the veracity of the Trent's photos, tickled my
curiosity about other UFO sightings that may have occurred here
in the NW, during that time. In my search I came across a
fascinating series of articles relaying the numerous UFO
sighting experiences of folks that had spent time in the old
forest fire watch towers. If you are interested in this
fascinating piece of UFO sighting history, you can find the
articles at the following URL:

http://www.nwmyst.com/nwmyst-ufo-0044.html

Regards,
Judith






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   Mar > Mar 4

                   Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton [was:

From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:51:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 12:51:47 -0500
Subject: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton [was:


>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 08:11:59 -0500
>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Dorothy Kilgallen and UFOs

>I am interested in gathering more information on Fontes,
>Mountbatten and Creighton, any tips are appreciated...

Kenny

Yesterday myself and Sue Lawrence were researching another
matter and came across some info on Gordon Creighton. We will
let you know if we manage to contact him. I assume he's still
alive ? <g>






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                 Re: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton [was:

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:11:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 12:51:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton [was:


>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 08:11:59 -0500
>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Dorothy Kilgallen and UFOs

>I am interested in gathering more information on Fontes,
>Mountbatten and Creighton, any tips are appreciated...

Mountbatton was an important 'mover and shaker'. He was, among
other things, a member of the British Royal family and, as the
last Viceroy of India and was in charge of the transition to
independence. He was killed in the 1980s, I believe, by an IRA
bomb.

There are several biographies of Mountbatton's very interesting
life. Your local library should have at least one.

Brian





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                 Re: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton [was:

From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:22:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 12:54:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton [was:


>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 08:11:59 -0500
>Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Dorothy Kilgallen and UFOs

>I am interested in gathering more information on Fontes,
>Mountbatten and Creighton, any tips are appreciated...

>Kenny Young

FSR, edited by Gordon Creighton, had an article in V.33, N.1,
March Quarter, 1988, "Dorothy Gilgallen - Another Strange
Twist?" pps.21,23.

This FSR back issue is still available through 'Flying Saucer
Review' [FSR]. Details on their back issues can be read online
from FSR's homepage:

http://www.corpex.com/users/archmage/fsr/fsrhome.htm

Ed Stewart

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Stewart ufoindex@jps.net|So Man, who here seems principal alone,
There Is Something         |Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown.
   Going On!       ,>'?'<, |Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal,
Salvador Freixedo  ( O O ) |'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole.





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                        UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?

From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:58:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 13:51:45 -0500
Subject: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?


The following story was released by news agencies in Sheffield,
Yorkshire, on 4 March:


SCHOOLBOY Alex Birch, blamed for hoaxing the world with a
sensational DIY flying saucer snap 37 years ago, now insists his
story was true.

Alex, now an antique dealer and grandfather, claims pressure and
ridicule forced him to claim the UFO sighting in 1962, which
made him a world wide celebrity, was a fake.

Now he says the world must know the true story of what happened
in the garden of a semi-detached house in Mosborough, Sheffield,
on March 2, 1962.

Alex, then a 12-year-old schoolboy, was playing in the garden of
his parents home with two pals. They were using an old Brownie
127 black and white box camera to take snaps of each other.

As they played together, they claimed five flying saucer objects
appeared in the sky behind them, hovering over trees and bushes.

In the 20 seconds the objects were visible, Alex wheeled round
and took a single picture. It captured the fuzzy objects, with
the nearest and largest showing what appeared to be a dome on
top.

The photograph was to change the life of young Alex. It was
pronounced genuine by Kodak experts, and the [British] Air
Ministry and the Pentagon examined copies and ordered an
investigation.

The picture appeared in newspapers, magazines and on TV stations
throughout the world and Alex became a celebrity guest at UFO
spotters conferences. The snap became one of the most convincing
pieces of evidence in a 1960s Britain obsessed with flying
saucers and proving their existence.

Alex and his father were called to London to be grilled by Air
Ministry officials.

But then 10 years later, Alex called a press conference and said
the photo was a simple cut and paste fake. He said it was a
schoolboy prank which snowballed out of control.

He and his chums had cut out the shapes of flying saucers,
pasted them on glass, and then took the picture which fooled the
experts. At the time, UFO experts throughout the world refused
to believe him.

Yesterday Alex, now 49, explained why he had changed his strange
story yet again - and why the world famous Roswell Museum in New
Mexico, set up after the sensational Roswell Incident in 1947,
are now begging Alex to allow them to exhibit the camera that
took the picture.

"People think I made a fortune out of the photograph, I have
heard estimates of up to half a million pounds," he said.

"In fact I made practically nothing, but I did become
internationally famous for it.

"The Pentagon had a file on the incident, the Air Ministry
called me and my father to London.

"But with the fame came a lot of misery. I faced a lot of
ridicule and pressure. I decided to claim it was a fake in the
hope that it would all go away and the pressure would be taken
off me. But it did not work like that. "Stories and pictures
continued to appear and to appear and some of the pressure even
passed on to my son. Adrian. People were not prepared to let the
story drop. "The reason I have now decided to let the real story
be known now is because I think it is important that the public
should know.

"Now my own five year old grandson is UFO crazy, with pictures
and specially made models in his bedroom. "The Roswell Museum
want the old Brownie camera to put on display because they
believe the picture was genuine. I still have it and it's become
an old friend and I have not made up my mind yet about parting
with it.

"But it seems that one black and white picture taken in a
garden all those years ago will be having an impact on our
lives for some years to come."






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   Mar > Mar 4

                     Re: 'Tibor Nagy Moon Film' Inquiry

From: Jean-Luc Rivera <JLRIV1@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:37:23 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 14:03:52 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Tibor Nagy Moon Film' Inquiry


>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 23:59:39 +1100
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Mike Farrell <mikefarr@midcoast.com.au>
>Subject: 'Tibor Nagy Moon Film' Inquiry

>Friday, March 5th

>Hello Fellow Researchers,

>This is Australia calling!

>I'm appealing to all of you out there to help us verify the
>cameraman and place of this unique footage of the moon's surface
>supposedly taken by an "abductee" aboard a spacecraft in 1954!

>We have been unable to locate the abductee, Tibor Nagy, in the
>literature. Evidently, he is still alive. And can anyone in
>America tell us where this place, Grand Central Crossroads, near
>Cape Town, is located?

>My information says it's in the State of Massachusetts, but I
>need that verified.

<BG>

>This French made film in 1991 was shown on the SBS series called
>'Eat Carpet', as part of the 'Forbidden Files' collection. It is
>9 minutes long and features interviews, newsreels, senate
>hearings, and most important, real film footage from 1954.


Dear Mike,

Sorry to disappoint you: the French series "Documents
Interdits"(Forbidden Files) is totally invented. There are a lot
of different short movies, all presented as 'real', on different
subjects: witchcraft in Mexico and others, including several
with a UFO and/or abduction theme (one of the best describes the
supposed contact and abduction of a lone surviving Russian
sailor in his lifeboat, filmed by himself!).

They are all fiction, with actors, all realised with a voluntary
amateurish way to make them more realistic. If you want, I
should be able to find who were the realisator and the actors of
that particular one which I remember quite well.

This is why there is no trace of this 'case' in the UFO
litterature: don't waste your time on that one.

As a side, this proves how easy it is to create, with a small
budget and not very sophisticated special effects, a film quite
realistic which can deceive a lot of people if it is not
presented for what it is: fiction.

Regards

Jean-Luc Rivera





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   Mar > Mar 4

                         Re: Nick Pope's Weird World

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:04:41 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 15:37:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Nick Pope's Weird World



>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 04:50:01 +0000
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World

>NICK POPE�S WEIRD WORLD
>HOT GOSSIP UK MAGAZINE MARCH 1999

>So how did ufology emerge from this whole affair? Not very well,
>I�m sorry to say. Jenny Randles is claiming that details about
>Peter�s true identity were in a rough first draft of Open Skies,
>Closed Minds, which was shown to her by one of the publishers
>originally invited to bid for the manuscript. If true, this
>seems to me to be a decidedly unprofessional thing for a
>publisher to have done. But that would pale into insignificance
>when set against the idea that Jenny Randles would subsequently
>leak details from this manuscript, and tell another ufologist
>details about the identity of a witnesses, when she knew the
>witness didn�t want their identity revealed. But this is
>precisely what Andy Roberts claimed happened, and if Andy
>believes this story, then he too is speculating on the identity
>of a witness who he knows full well doesn�t want to discuss the
>affair. Sorry, but even if I was Peter, there can be no
>exceptions to witness confidentiality. Any serious ufologist
>should know this.

>Nick Pope

Dear Nick, All

I have said many times before, here last year over the Linda
Cortile case especially, that witness confidentiality is
paramount if we are to encourage others to come forward with
their sightings and etc. So on this point I find myself agreeing
with Nick, damn and blast <huge G> but there you go. Witness
confidentiality when requested, even if _you_ are the witness is
paramount in my eyes.

--

    In an infinite universe infinitely anything is possible.
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
            UFO page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/






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                           Re: UFO Sighting Sites

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 14:29:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 15:28:11 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Sighting Sites


Following is an excerpt from a message by Jim Shaffer on the
VortexC listserver. The topic is gravitometric or torsion
fields as they relate to UFO propulsion systems. I'm curious if
anyone on this list has heard of Lew Tery.

TIA,

Terry

<><><><><><><><><><><><>

Let's change direction for a moment. One individual by the name
of Lew Tery has been working on some ideas regarding UFOs and
geomagnetic anomalies. I will go into what he has discovered
(although the concept of the relationship is not new) and let
you judge that for yourself.

After purchasing aeromagnetic and gravitational anomaly maps
from the United States Geological Survey, it becomes evident
that there was indeed a valid connection between these areas and
UFOs. Mr. Tery gave a lecture in Arizona about that
relationship, and was subsequently harassed by the FBI, and told
that the information is "sensitive." Mr. Tery took the hint and
declined to talk publicly about it to the degree that he had
been doing.

Both the aeromagnetic and gravitational (Bougier Gravity) maps
indicate basic field strength, as well as areas of high and low
field strength. Interestingly enough, the areas of maximum and
minimum field strength have the following:

o  All have frequent UFO sightings.

o  All are either on Indian Reservations, governmentland, or the
government is trying to buy up the land.

o  Many of them, especially where several are clusteredtogether,
are suspected bases areas and/or areaswhere mutilations and
abductions have historicallytaken place.

In these observations, Mr. Tery has gone far, but he has gone a
little farther in noting that there are times when the UFOs are
seen in these areas. Through painstaking research, Mr. Tery
found that the sightings, as well as many abductions and
mutilations, occur:

o  On the new moon or within two days before the new moon.

o  On the full moon or within two days before the full moon.

o  At the perihelion (moon closest to earth) or within two days
before the perihelion.

A glance at the nearest farmers' almanac will give you the
information you require as far as the days for this year or any
other one. There seems to be no concrete explanation for the
coincidence of the times and the events, but it is true.

<end of quote>






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   Mar > Mar 4

                        Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy

From: Geri & Alfred Webre <Ecotoday@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:27:42 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 16:14:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy


>Subj: UFO UpDate: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy
>Date: 99-03-04 11:41:56 EST
>From: TSpurrier@compuserve.com (Tony Spurrier)
>To:    Ecotoday@aol.com (Alfred & Geri Webre)

<snip>

>As Co-director were you aware of any possible links to UFOs
>and/or a possible disclosure that were over looked due to them
>being 'far out'?

>I started this purely as I was looking into the CIA document which
>referrs to Marilyn Monroe's wiretaps and this is where I came
>across Howard Rothberg and aslo Dorothy Kilgallen. Having
>delved behind the scenes of the document I found Dorothy had
>'allegedly' committed suicide in similar circumstances as MMafter
>declaring she was going to blow the lid on the assassination. My
>interest purely lies with 'a very slim chance' of establishing a link
>between Monroe's and Kilgallen's suicides, not necessarilly being
>JFK into it aswell.

>Any information, however slight would be of great interest to me.

>Thanks, Tony

<snip>

Tony - We too have been engaged in a parallel research effort,
and would like to establish a line of research-sharing with you,
perhaps off-list.

As you know, documents suggesting a UFO connection to the JFK,
Monroe, or Kilgallen deaths are very difficult to locate.  The
National Archives lists only one HCSA document that is UFO
related [Record #180-10007-10139], dated 11/26/63, 4 days after
the assassination.  We are in the process of obtaining a copy of
that document.

Alex Constantine also has written a very suggestive article

available at:

alt.conspiracy. jfk -  rick-0202990833380001@dial116.aisl.bc.ca>

linking Oswald's alleged 'handlers" in New Orleans - Clay Shaw
and Guy Bannister - with UFOs and Project PaperClip, going back
to meeting Werner von Braun in 1945.  The article suggests that
the network of Oswald "handlers"  really may have been U.S.
government covert UFO operatives.

The research challenge here may well be the documentation, as
well as the "informed experts."  The "geopolitical" or "Mafia"
theories of the JFK assassination do not of themselves
necessarily justify an "executive action" counter-move to remove
JFK by public execution.  On the other hand, the high level of
covert government investment in counter-UFO disinformation and
operations may well have triggered a covert command and control
network to execute a President who was about to authoritatively
publicly reveal their deepest covert arena - UFOs.

If the Kilgallen and Monroe deaths were UFO related, they may
have been ordered within this context.

The above is a working research "model", not a conclusion, but
may serve as a guide, perhaps, to re-evaluate much existing
evidence.

Again, to anyone on the list, please e-mail us off-list
(ecotoday@aol.com) with any suggestions or references you may
have.

Many thanks,
Geri & Alfred Webre






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   Mar > Mar 4

                         Re: Nick Pope's Weird World

From: Rory Lushman <rory.l@zen.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:38:35 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 16:16:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Nick Pope's Weird World


Date: 04 March 1999. 19:45
>From Rory Lushman <rory.l@zen.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Nick Pope's Weird World
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 04:50:01 +0000
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World

>Instead, try a radical concept, like investigating
>a UFO sighting.  Or is that a bit too tricky?

Did I blink and miss something. Let's rewind....No, I
don't seem to recall Nick Pope spending hours talking
to witnesses. I don't recall his many hours out in the
"field" investigating UFO reports. Instead, all we here
are regurgitated cases that most people are aware of.

Please remind us all Nick of the time you have spent
investigating these cases. Let's see your documented
cases. Let's know how many visits you have actually
made to visit people.

Nick will soon be in the Guiness Book of records for
the most used phrase..."Structured craft."  Can you
point me to these structured craft Nick.

Nick has now realised you can only churn out second
hand cases before people suss the plan and he has
become all defensive now people want answers to
questions.

There's too many people in ufology for the "fame game"
and not in it for serious research. Of course there are
those who are sought out because of their methodical
research and then there are those who are sought out
because of their ability to spin a good yarn. Who do
you think deserves the recognition?

Nick, I challenge you to go on a stage and compare your
"methodical" research with some of the UK's real
investigators.

Andy Roberts exposure of the Berwyn Mountain case
and Dave Clarke's excellent research into a famous case
somewhere near a Yorkshire town - Sheffield..ooopppss
I swore - are prime examples of what ufology is all about.
Investigating all avenues, not taking the first piece of
information as true unless proved so.

There are numerous researchers, who do just that, research.
They are not in it for the fame and fortune. My autograph
book will remain shut.

As for books, if you want to read a book that is based on
research, then you should look no further than Tim Matthews
new book.

>(you know, actually investigating a case - something
> the anoraks seem to have forgotten how to do,

Let me get my notepad, in fact let me get my postage stamp and I
will write what you know about ufology on the back of that.

Nick Pope, in my opinion virtually admitted he was the
"abductee" on the James Whale's Talk Radio show.

Many people reading this may think UK researchers are like pack
hounds. This is not the case, all we want is proper research
that can be backed up with good solid evidence. We don't want
fairy tales or cases that have no evidence whatsoever, other
than someone told them so, or it was their brothers friend, who
knew someone who had a cousin that was psychic and he knows
people in high places, claptrap.

I know people in high places, Fred Dibnah.

Rory Lushman.





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   Mar > Mar 4

                      Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?

From: Robert Moore <ENGIMA9@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:39:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 18:41:02 -0500
Subject: Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?

[Non-subscriber Post]

>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:58:03 -0500
>From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?
>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>,

>The following story was released by news agencies in Sheffield,
>Yorkshire, on 4 March:

>SCHOOLBOY Alex Birch, blamed for hoaxing the world with a
>sensational DIY flying saucer snap 37 years ago, now insists his
>story was true.

<snip>

Sorry, I don't buy this at all! Alex Birches' photograph is a
hoax, pure and simple. It looks like it is - a fuzzy image of
'UFOs' painted onto a sheet of glass!

Let us _not_ forget the picture of Birch that appears in "The
Unexplained" in the 1980's (and other places), where he is
shown, - next to a glass plate painted with small 'UFOs' -
holding a camera and grinning like a Cheshire cat.

Grinning at _us_.......

He didn't look _too_ harassed there, to me. Just smirking, at
the thought of making all those dumb Ufologists fall for his
tricks! Smirking at all those credulous 1960's UK Ufologists,
who formulated UFO propulsion theories based on this photograph
(it's supposed to show water droplets suspended in an
antigravity field)!  Also, the noticeable blurring around the
'UFOs' (someone once claimed) was the result of a "force field"
surrounding the 'craft'.

Handy things, force fields...... the absurd Adamski movie 'UFO'
is also supposed to be physically distorted due to a similar
reason. Not simply because it was merely a cheesy special effect
(how dare you _think_ such a thing)!

OK; his pictures are "genuine"; funny, then, that the _very_
method that Birch originally claimed he used to fake it _can_
create an image identical to this - now "authentic" - UFO
picture! Funny, too, that (through the very act of _his_
original confession) he obviously _had_ prior knowledge of this
easily-applied hoaxing method!

Sadly, the U.K.'s Ufological history is littered with hoaxed
photographs fabricated by children. It's even sadder still when
some of these witnesses continue to claim these hoaxes are
'authentic'. Which will be all the excuse 'mystery' and 'hack'
writers will need to keep pushing them as authentic 'true-UFO'
images. Pushing such obviously faked images as 'authentic'
obviously does the image of our subject NO favours, especially
in the eyes of the scientific community.

This un-confession has nothing to do with the truth, and
everything to do with the lucrative 'UFO Industry that has
arisen in recent years. When the truth wasn't out there (i.e.
before Chris Carter discovered UFOs) Alex Birch was seemingly
quite happy to let us think these photographs _were_ hoaxes.
Then, when the X-files era came upon us, it is suddenly realised
what a goldmine this image is! But, oh dear, it's a confessed
hoax....never mind, just take back the confession and a square
of worthless photographic emulsion is transmuted into gold!

Another aspect _not_ mentioned in the story reproduced by Dave
Clarke is that Alex Birch has become very aware of _how_ often
his photograph has been used in books over the years, and has
been asking for outstanding loyalties! Obviously, the value of
a "genuine" UFO photo is greater than that of a hoaxed (or is
that a 'just hoaxed for now') photograph!

Come on guys; let's not fall for this photo again!  I, at least,
will continue to hold the view that this photograph is at best
highly suspect, and very likely a hoax.

Should we in this subject attempt to settle this matter, once
and for all? Finally, and for good. In my view, these images
_should_ be subjected to modern computer photographic analysis
(by someone skilled in photographic SFX work).

Is Birch willing for these images to be so tested?

And lets also try to duplicate the photograph itself, via the
means it was originally claimed to have been fabricated by.


Robert Moore






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   Mar > Mar 5

                         Re: Trent and Rouen Images

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:57:13 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 07:12:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images


>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:21:14 -0500
>Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:08:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images

>As we know the 'Rouen' image isn't an exact copy of the 'Trent
>saucer', that was never a contention.

Yet below, Easton talks of how one "matches" the other after
being blown up. In reality, Rouen is neither a match or a copy
of Trent, exact or otherwise. They are similar in some details,
but obviously very different in others.

>If it was, there would be little point in undertaking the
>exercise of considering, as I said, "how much image manipulation
>was required to make a 'Rouen' photograph from the Trent image".

So answer your own question. How much image manipulation is
required to make a Rouen from a Trent?  Please explain exactly
how this would be done and why anybody would bother, even if
they could do it. Why not simply make a model and reshoot?

>We shouldn't really call the 'Rouen' image a photograph as
>there's no evidence it ever originated from a separate source.

Ah, I see. By merely asserting that there is "no evidence" of
separate origins you are implying they _must_ have the same
origin without actually demonstrating it. Don't you have your
logic ass backwards here?  The burden of proof is on you. If it
can't be reasonably demonstrated Rouen is a copy of Trent, then
Rouen _necessarily_ originated from a separate source.

>That it's conceivably a "simple copy" depends on whether a copy
>of that 'Trent saucer' image could end up looking like the later
>'Rouen' image, apparently first published in 1957, and how
>easily that could be achieved, intentionally or otherwise.

Indeed, so please explain how, intentionally or otherwise,
somebody in 1957 could reasonably transform Trent into what is
seen in Rouen, or why they would even bother.

I just see a lot more handwaving and arguing around the point
here. Sorry to raise this painful topic, but I remember the same
sort of vague and slippery Eastonian arguments with regard to
his pelican explanation for the Kenneth Arnold sighting.

>We should also keep in mind that the 'saucer' depicted on the
>related Trent photograph needs to be 'blown up' before it
>matches the 'Rouen' image.

(And here's where one suddenly "matches" the other.)

What exactly is your point here -- that in the process of being
blown up, the Trent image somehow morphed into the Rouen image?
Again no handwaving. Please explain how this would happen,
photographically speaking. This has to explain all the major
differences between the two images that I detail below,
including the reversal of shading and the very clever
improvement of image quality in the Rouen picture even though it
is supposedly a distorted duplicate of the original Trent.

>Ideally, one experiment would be to make several duplicates of
>the Trent 'saucer' image using a range of enlargement, copying
>and printing equipment available from circa 1950s technology.

>How many factors, such as the type of equipment, the operators
>proficiency, etc. might affect the end result?

You're supposed to tell us. It's your hypothesis. I'm sure a
photo expert like Bob Shell would love to hear your explanation
of how the hoaxer did it with 1950s photo technology.

>Would each enlarged duplicate be an exact copy, or maybe we
>would in fact discover variances in all of them.

"Might," "maybe," "conceivably."  Just more handwaving,
"pelican" arguments.

Any variances in normal copying would be small, and could not
explain the _large_ variances actually seen in the two photos.
If I am wrong about this, please give me a detailed technical
explanation of why I am wrong. I do get tired of the way you
dance around the issues without ever saying anything concrete.

>If there was a significant difference in only one of them, then
>that's sufficient evidence to indicate an inexact, 'simple' copy
>was possible and could later be published as a similar, yet
>different, 'photograph'.

Am I the only one who has no idea what Easton is talking about
here?  How exactly does "significant difference" morph into
"sufficient evidence" that Rouen is a copy, even an "inexact"
one?  I suppose in the same way that Easton magically morphed
Trent into Rouen to begin with.

We're not even dealing with one "significant difference" but
multiple such differences. (see below)   However, I would hazard
a guess that with superior British skeptical logic, if even one
"significant difference" is "sufficient evidence" of copying,
then half a dozen such differences must amount to overwhelming
evidence of copying. Where I come from, however, the presence of
"significant differences" is evidence that it is _not_ a copy.
That's the sort of weird logic we Yanks use. Maybe it's because
we Yanks drive on the right side of the road along with the rest
of Europe, while you Brits just choose to be contrary.

In a logical nutshell:
Zero differences = Copy
Minor differences = Possible evidence of copying
Multiple major differences = Not copied; different origins

At least, that's they way most of us lowly Colonists think.

>A point was, any variances in the 'Rouen' image were perhaps
>completely unintentional, it may have been a misrepresented,
>enlarged and cropped image from that 'Trent' photograph.

What exactly does "misrepresented" mean?  Is that another
slippery, pelicanistic way of asserting Rouen is a copy of Trent
without having to demonstrate it?  So far we have you saying
that Rouen is an "inexact" copy, a "misrepresented" copy, and a
"match" all in one post.  I think most people looking at these
two images would recognize the similarities, but also note the
distinct differences.

James, my snotty comments aside, I think your worthy (I mean
that) side-to- side comparison of the Trent and Rouen images
make the following major differences quite clear, even on casual
inspection, at least to those who aren't visually impaired:

1. The Rouen image is less grainy and the object has distinctly
smoother, sharper edges. In short, the image is clearer. If it
were a manipulated or distorted copy of the Trent image many
generations removed from the original, wouldn't the exact
opposite be true?  How exactly did a Trent copier end up with a
_better_ quality image than the original?

2. The Trent photo shows the object almost exactly edge-on.
Therefore, the rim at the bottom appears nearly flat with very
little curvature. In contrast, the Rouen object has a bottom rim
with very noticeable curvature, indicating that the photo is
from a perspective looking slightly down at the object rather
than edge-on.

3. The lip or rim of the Rouen object is distinctly wider than
the Trent object. The Rouen object also has a distinctly more
pointed-looking rim at the right and left edges. The Trent rim
has a blunter look to it, even after Easton's stretching
exercise.

4. The strange "tower" on top is comparatively "squat" in the
Trent photos. The Rouen "tower" is obviously much taller.

5. The shading is the exact opposite in the two images (shadows
to the left in Trent; to the right in Rouen). There also appears
to be more overhead illumination in the Rouen image.

These variances from the Trent image are glaringly obvious and
could _not_ be caused by simple variation of an image through
successive copying. To think otherwise is to stretch a lot more
than the Trent image. It's just more pelican argumentation.

If the Rouen image was an attempt to duplicate the Trent image,
a far easier way to do it would be to build a model and
photograph it. The explains the differences in a far more
economical way than some stretch and distort, alter-the-shading
scheme long before the age of desktop computers.

>If an enlarged copy of the 'Trent saucer' would, as you suggest,
>always be recognisable as such,

I don't remember saying anything like that. The offet Trent
"tower" with the round "bulb" at the end are the most
distinctive features also shared by the Rouen object. That more
than anything else makes them _similar_ in appearance. But there
are those glaring differences as well. That means they are
obviously not the same object.

> then why does the "colour contouring" duplicate shown .. see:

> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/rouen.jpg

> begin to look more like the 'Rouen' image?

Maybe because you're simply image-ining it?  How do you explain
the numerous differences?  How exactly would 1957 imaging
techniques transform the Trent image into the Rouen image in a
_straightforward_ way?  If you can't explain this with more than
just your usual handwaving arguments, then please give up the
ghost. The Rouen image is _not_ a copy of Trent.






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   Mar > Mar 5

                     Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:43:54 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 07:34:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos


>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:22:45 -0500
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

Hello, all ,being an ol' Blue Mountain Hillbilly myself, I felt
compelled to Comment.

>>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:43:27 -0500
>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Bruce wrote:

>>>From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos
>>>Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:26:57 -0800

>>Supposing that they did hoax the one sighting (two photos) for
>>whatever reason. Then, if they claim to have seen UFOs again,
>>why not create more hoax photos? After all the first photos
>>brought them nationwide notoriety but no money. Perhaps the next
>>set might bring them fortune as well as fame....

Pray tell, if one was wanting fortune from this, why be so,
well, nonchalant about  this picture, as the Trents apparently
were.

>>Fact is, the Trents were "too lazy" as some have put it and
>>sufficiently mentally challenged to be able to even contemplate
>>such a thing.

Ok, run an IQ test on your average "old Oregon" type and you'd
be amazed.

>Bruce,

>Is there perhaps a paradox here?

>Accepting the Trents were 'simple folks', an attribute which
>would solve many of the world's problems, and, let's also assume
>their photographs are absolutely genuine, then they achieved
>something which has eluded the combined efforts of all the
>world's astronomers, physicists, scientists per se, air forces,
>ufologists.. you name it.. [excluding any 'cover up' of course].

I _love_ this.

>Not only capturing the clear image of a 'flying saucer' on film,
>they were able to take two photographs, from alternative
>positions and showing the 'saucer' at differing angles.

>Even with the arguable inclusion of 'dual' photographs from
>Adamski, Meier, Ed Walters et al.. this is still an almost
>unprecedented accomplishment.

Could it be some ol' clodhopper from McMinnville, Or. could have
possibly unlocked a big secret?

>Adamski, Meier, Walters and others who profess to have
>frequently obtained detailed photographs of 'UFOs', don't
>normally come into the category of 'simple folks'.

Ironic.Meyer always wanted to be portrayed as a simple farmer-he
isn't. Trent was.

>So, if their photographs truly depict a 'craft' from 'elsewhere'
>the Trents have, if not unique, a prodigious place in our
>history.

>How many times have we heard witnesses to 'UFOs' lament that
>they had a camera or camcorder available, yet never thought
>about this until later.

Field glasses and camera are always under the seat, auto or
aircraft. Personal rule.

>That will happen of course and the Trents not only saw a 'UFO',
>they had the presence of mind which has eluded so many others,
>found the camera, fortuitously already loaded with film, and
>despite the intervening time, were able to focus the objects
>perfectly as they passed in front of the farm.

Look, people of that era kept loaded cameras around a long time,
you could find Christmas and graduation (June) on the same roll
- no problem.

>That may well be exactly what happened
>However, point being, it does seem to elevate them from being
>merely 'simple folks' and indicates they were in fact astute,
>recognising a significant photographic opportunity which many
>others haven't and had a technical ability which most
>photographers would applaud, given the circumstances and basic
>equipment available.

Yes, I think anyone would, who saw that, and an IQ above dull
normal would grab the ol' Brownie!

>The Trents were perhaps therefore somewhat smarter than we might
>perceive given their rustic background.

Shure, being a Rustic of sorts, I've  known Buckaroos who
tracked the latest satellite launches (back when it mattered)
just to track them as they soared across the night sky.

>Smart enough to pull off a hoax.. we'll never know.

>Would you however agree it does seem to be evidenced that your
>comments:

>"Fact is, the Trents were "too lazy" as some have put it and
>sufficiently mentally challenged to be able to even contemplate
>such a thing"


Having read accounts about them, and knowing people like
them,_No_ hoaxing wasn't on their minds. I think they were too
honest, you are dealing with Farmers of the old school,and I
think that just  comtemplating a hoax woud be unthinkable to
them.(just as locking their doors or not lending a neighbor a
piece of farm equipment.-I know that.

>do not equate with what you believe they did achieve?

One can only hope that they will get the fame that they didn't
actively seek.

-GT McCoy





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   Mar > Mar 5

                        Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy

From: Scott Ribordy <sdr@ns.net>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 05:56:25 GMT
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 07:40:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy

:
:
:
:
:
:
:


>From: Geri & Alfred Webre <Ecotoday@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:27:42 EST
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy

<snip>

>Alex Constantine also has written a very suggestive article

>available at:

>alt.conspiracy. jfk -  rick-0202990833380001@dial116.aisl.bc.ca>

>linking Oswald's alleged 'handlers" in New Orleans - Clay Shaw
>and Guy Bannister - with UFOs and Project PaperClip, going back
>to meeting Werner von Braun in 1945.  The article suggests that
>the network of Oswald "handlers"  really may have been U.S.
>government covert UFO operatives.

Minor correction, the article can be accessed at;

http://x9.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=440096532&search=thread&threaded=1&AH=1&CONT
EXT=0&hitnum=3


Scott Ribordy





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   Mar > Mar 5

                        Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy

From: Geri & Alfred Webre <Ecotoday@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:57:22 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:03:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy

>Subj: UFO UpDate: Re: Dorothy Kilgallen Autopsy
>Date: 99-03-03 13:04:32 EST
>From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<snip>

>Kilgallen had involved herself with the subject since at least
>1947. [see below]

>According to Clifford Stone's research of non-UFO-related CIA
>documents [are you there Clifford?]:

>Kilgallen had been told by Marilyn Monroe, three days before
>Monroe died, that "she was about to call a press conference to
>reveal that she had proof of what JFK had told her about a UFO
>crash in New Mexico from which some of the dead alien bodies
>were recovered."

>I'm including some excerpts from various sources which refer to
>Kilgallen from my archives here.

>ebk

<snip>

Alex Constantine wrote us today with additional insights (below)
on Dorothy Kilgallen's death. Alex is the author of Virtual
Government: CIA Mind Control Operations in America, published in
1997.

Geri & Alfred Webre
Vancouver, BC

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Fri, 5 Mar 1999

Alex Constantine writes:

[Sources: Kenn Thomas and Lincoln Lawrence, Mind Control,
Oswald & JFK: Were We Controlled? Kempton, Ill.: Adventures
Unlimited, 1997, pp. 162-63. Also cf. Lee Israel, Kilgallen, New
York: Delacourte, 1979, p. pp. 390 and 441 for the updated
chemical forensic report. - Alex Constantine]


A chemist who reported to Dr. Charles Umberger at the New York
City Medical Examiner's office discovered she'd been murdered -
and was told to keep the chemical analysis under wraps - in
1978. The chemist ran an analysis of the glass Kilgallen had
been drinking from when she died. The tests turned up traces of
Nembutol on the glass. But Nembutol was not found in her blood.
The blood tests had turned up a lethal cocktail of drugs, three
from the fastest-acting groups of barbituates: secobarbitol,
amobarbital and pentobarbital.


She was one of the very few major reporters in the country to
question the Warren Commission's cooked findings:

'Twenty-four hours after the assassination ... Chief Curry
assured reporters that the sound of the shots told him at once
they had come from the Texas School Depository and that "right
away" he radioed an order to surround and search the building.
But actually, as we see from the Police Department's official
version of events. Chief Curry's immediate concern was not the
Depository, but the triple-tiered overpass towards which the
Presidential car was moving at about eight miles an hour when
the fatal shots were fired.'


Biographer Lee Israel found, J. Edgar Hoover was following the
dispatches of the 'flighty and irresponsible' Dorothy Kilgallen
with extraordinary and painstaking attention.

More on Dorothy Kilgallen:

The facts about Kilgallen's death have been widely distorted.

She threatened to expose the players in the John Kennedy
assassination, also mind control experimentation (see the quotes
below), and was murdered. A coroner determined this in the
mid-'70s, after discovering that the chemicals found on her
drinking glass were not the same as the barbituate combination
in her blood, which were highly lethal, and so ruled out suicide
or accidental overdose.

Who was responsible for her death?


One possibility: G. Gordon Liddy's deposition in the Hunt suit
exposed a domestic death squad: "We had perhaps a dozen men who
were willing to come on board in this connection. And Mr. Hunt,
to impress upon me the high caliber of these individuals, stated
that they had accounted among them for a substantial number of
deaths, including two who had hanged someone from a beam in a
garage.

Were these the same "high caliber individuals" who killed gossip
columnist Dorothy Kilgallen, the only reporter to interview Jack
Ruby, and the author of a public memorandum to Lyndon Johnson,
published on December 21, 1964:


MEMORANDUM TO PRESIDENT JOHNSON:

"Please check with the State Department.... the leaders of our
Armed Forces or our chief scientists, to discover what, if
anything, we are doing to explore the ramifications of
[electromagnetic] thought control ... could change the history
of the world."


Kilgallen told friends in the entertainment industry that she
was going to "bust the Kennedy assassination wide open." But she
never had the chance, because she died of acute barbituate and
alcohol poisoning - the New York medical examiner could not at
the time say whether Kilgallen died accidentally or was murdered
- on November 8, 1965. Mary Branum, one of Kilgallen's editors,
received a telephone call several hours prior to the discovery
of Ms. Kilgallen's body. The anonymous caller informed Branum
that the columnist had been murdered."

- Alex Constantine






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   Mar > Mar 5

                         Re: 'The Edge of Reality'?

From: Scott Carr <sardonica@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 02:51:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:07:35 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Edge of Reality'?


Does anyone remember a UFO radio talk show from the early 1980's
called 'The Edge of Reality'? It was hosted by Lee Spiegel
(sic?) and was on late, around midnight or so. I'm not sure if
it was syndicated or not, but I used to listen to it in New York.
I honestly don't remember the station, but WNBC seems to ring a
bell.

I would really appreciate any information that anyone has about
the show. Especially any contact information for Mr. Spiegel.

Thanks in advance!

-Scott C. Carr

Editor, The Flying Saucer Gazette
http://www.erols.com/sardonica

Producer, "UFO Desk"
99.5 FM WBAI, NY





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                 Swissair Liner's CE With 'UFO' Off NYC '97

From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:16:25 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:46:29 -0500
Subject: Swissair Liner's CE With 'UFO' Off NYC '97


Swissair-UFO, 1st Writethru

http://www.cbcnews.cbc.ca:80/news/cp/world/990304/w030450.html


STEPHEN THORNE


OTTAWA (CP) - A Swissair pilot reported his 737 jet was nearly
hit by an unidentified flying object, possibly a missile, near
the area off New York where a TWA airplane crashed in 1996, The
Canadian Press has learned.

Swissair Flight 127 was cruising at 23,000 feet on Aug. 9, 1997,
when the pilot interrupted an address to passengers to report
the near miss by a round white object, says a report by the U.S.
National Transportation Safety Board.

"Sir, I don=92t know what it was, but it just flew like a couple
of hundred feet above us," he radioed Boston air traffic
control. "I don=92t know if it was a rocket or whatever, but
incredibly fast, opposite direction."

"In the opposite direction?" asked the controller.

"Yes sir, and the time was 2107 (Greenwich mean time). It was
too fast to be an airplane."

The controller asked another aircraft if its crew saw anything
like a missile in the area. The reply was negative. He then
asked the Swissair pilot again how far above the plane it was.

"It was right over us, right above, opposite direction, and, and
I don=92t know, two, three, four hundred feet above. All that I
can tell, 127, is that (we) saw a light object, it was white,
and very fast."

Investigators interviewed the captain and first officer on Aug.
10, 1997. The flight engineer hadn=92t seen the object and was not
interviewed.

The report, filed under NYC97SA193, said the flight was opposite
John F. Kennedy Airport at 5:07 p.m. Eastern time - near the
area where TWA Flight 800 went down July 17, 1996, after taking
off from JFK; 230 died.

Some believe a missile caused the midair explosion of the TWA
737 off Long Island, N.Y. Authorities have reached no official
conclusion but have been leaning toward faulty wiring in the
plane=92s fuel tank.

The transportation safety board report said the Swissair captain
saw the cylindrical object for less than a second. He did not
see any wings and was not sure it was an aircraft.

"He had never been so close to other traffic before," said the
report. "It passed over the cockpit, slightly right of
centerline. If it had been any lower, it would have hit the
aircraft.

"As the object passed by, there was no noise, no wake
turbulence, and no disruption or anomalies with any of the
flight or engine instruments."

The plane was flying in clear weather to Boston from
Philadelphia at the time. The sun was at the pilot=92s back. He
apparently did not have time to take evasive action.

"There was no exhaust or smoke, no fire, and he could not
accurately discern its size. The captain reported his total time
as 15,000-plus flight hours. He had never seen a missile in
flight."

The first officer, whose flight time totalled 7,500 hours, said
he was bent over to adjust the volume on his headset when he
looked up and saw the object pass overhead "very quickly.

"It was close enough that he ducked his head because he thought
it would hit them. . . . He thought it passed about 100 to 200
feet above the airplane and between the right side of the
fuselage and the No. 3 engine."

The first officer said no markings were visible and the object
appeared to be the size of a thumbnail held at arm=92s length.

He said he had previously encountered a weather balloon over
Italy, and the object did not look like the balloon. He had
witnessed missile launches from the ground previously, the
report said.

The report said the nearest weather balloons are launched from
Upton, N.Y., 43 nautical miles northeast of JFK twice daily, at
7 p.m. and 3 a.m. Eastern time and usually take 25 to 28 minutes
to reach 23,000 feet.

Balloons are light tan or brownish, or black and red, said the
report, adding the wind was blowing from the north, almost at
right angles to the aircraft.

Investigators also checked radar data and plotted the plane=92s
flight path.

"There was no evidence of an opposite direction target, either
beacon or non- beacon," said the report.

=A9 The Canadian Press, 1999
________________________________

Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News:
UFOSEEK... For the Source! http://www.ufoseek.org






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   Mar > Mar 5

                            Bell On King Tonight

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:54:24 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 21:27:19 -0500
Subject: Bell On King Tonight


Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/bufosweirdworld"> Link
to Amazon.com</a>

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or
redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that
attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is
good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them
something.  If you forward this, please make sure it is clear
that you are forwarding it).

Friday, March 5th

My apologies if you have asked to change address or otherwise
change your status this week.  I will update the list prior to
the mailout of the regular mailing this week.

I wanted to let people know that Art Bell is scheduled to be the
guest on Larry King on CNN tonight: 6:00 PM Pacific, 9:00 Pm
Eastern.  It also repeated three hours later.

My appreciation goes out to a correspondent who alerted me to
this some days ago.  If you want to be named for credit, let me
know ;) .

___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that
=would= be weird!"

____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is
commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from
those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also
subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the
same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the
media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week
before.






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   Mar > Mar 5

                     Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:41:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 21:38:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos


>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:22:45 -0500
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>>Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:43:27 -0500
>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: Phil Klass and The Trent Photos
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Bruce wrote:>

>>Supposing that they did hoax the one sighting (two photos) for
>>whatever reason. Then, if they claim to have seen UFOs again,
>>why not create more hoax photos? After all the first photos
>>>set might bring them fortune as well as fame....

[...]

>>Fact is, the Trents were "too lazy" as some have put it and
>>sufficiently mentally challenged to be able to even contemplate
>>such a thing.


>Bruce,

>Is there perhaps a paradox here?

>Accepting the Trents were 'simple folks', an attribute which
>would solve many of the world's problems, and, let's also assume
>their photographs are absolutely genuine, then they achieved
>world's astronomers, physicists, scientists per se, air forces,
>ufologists.. you name it.. [excluding any 'cover up' of course].

>Not only capturing the clear image of a 'flying saucer' on film,
>they were able to take two photographs, from alternative
>positions and showing the 'saucer' at differing angles.

>Even with the arguable inclusion of 'dual' photographs from
>Adamski, Meier, Ed Walters et al.. this is still an almost
>unprecedented accomplishment.>

>Adamski, Meier, Walters and others who profess to have
>frequently obtained detailed photographs of 'UFOs', don't
>normally come into the category of 'simple folks'..

>So, if their photographs truly depict a 'craft' from 'elsewhere'
>the Trents have, if not unique, a prodigious place in our
>history.

>How many times have we heard witnesses to 'UFOs' lament that
>they had a camera or camcorder available, yet never thought
>about this until later.

>That will happen of course and the Trents not only saw a 'UFO',
>they had the presence of mind which has eluded so many others,
>found the camera, fortuitously already loaded with film, and
>despite the intervening time, were able to focus the objects
>perfectly as they passed in front of the farm.

>That may well be exactly what happened.

>However, point being, it does seem to elevate them from being
>merely 'simple folks' and indicates they were in fact astute,
>recognising a significant photographic opportunity which many
>others haven't and had a technical ability which most
>photographers would applaud, given the circumstances and basic
>equipment available.

>The Trents were perhaps therefore somewhat smarter than we might
>perceive given their rustic background.>


>Smart enough to pull off a hoax.. we'll never know.

>Would you however agree it does seem to be evidenced that your
>comments:

>"Fact is, the Trents were "too lazy" as some have put it and
>sufficiently mentally challenged to be able to even contemplate
>such a thing"

>do not equate with what you believe they did achieve?

To my mind what you have jsut said constitutes "wishy washy
reasoning."

Hoaxing and recording actual events are not comparable.

One doesn't have to be a genius...or even clever.... to say
(or think) "Wow,that looks neat, let's take a picture."
 Evelyn said her first impression was that she was seeing a
large parachute descending some distance from her house.

That was what she compared it with. Maybe she thought that was a
unique enough event...a parachute landing near her house... to
warrent calling her husband to take a picture. Obviously I can
only guess what made her suddenly think "camera." Obviously by
the time the object had "gone west" she had realized that it
wasn't a parachute.

Afterward, when being asked about the event, all she had to do
was remember as best she could what had happened. Same for her
husband; all he had to do was recall what happened.

On the other hand, a hoax is a planned event. A model doesn't
just magically appear hanging under a wire. Someone has to
decide to create a story, to support it with a photo or two, to
think about creating a model to put into the picture, a place to
hang the model, to build it and hang it.

Then the "witnesses" have to create a correlated story about
what they claim happened. Then they have to memorize their story
so it can be recited over and over under different
circumstances, even when they are separated.

I submit that this hoax hypthesis requires a different sort of
mentality than just responding to actual events and trying to
recall what happened.

You have argued that they managed to accomplish a unique feat in
the annals of ufology.... two photos of a REAL UFO. And these
photos were very "popular", getting them on TV. Their photos
have been featured in dozens (hundreds?) of UFO publications, in
National Geographic special books (yes!) and so on.

So, one might ask, if they had been so successful with the first
pair of photos, WHY NOT MORE? After all, in a 1968(?)
interview Mrs. Trent said they had seen several since 1950 "but
they flew away before we could photograph them" (or words to
that effect). Obviously if a hoax, they could have backed up
her claim of having seen more by producing more photos.

Not only could they have backed up Evelyn's claim, they could
also have made some well deserved $$$. They didn't get any money
for their first photos and, guess what, THEY CERTAINLY COULD
HAVE USED SOME MONEY (for Paul's hearing problem and so on). So
they had a "fiscal incentive" to create, not just one more
photo,.... but _dozens_!!!

Oh, well. Dumb Trents!

They didn't make any more photos. And the fact that they didn't





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   Mar > Mar 5

                         Re: Trent and Rouen Images

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:41:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 21:43:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images


>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:21:14 -0500
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>>>Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:54:27 -0500
>>>Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:09:40 -0500
>>Subject: Trent and Rouen Images

>>>My conclusion - it was relatively easy to create a close match
>>>and basically requires the dimensions of the Trent image to be
>>>slightly 'stretched' lengthways.

>>>Given that there seems to be no documented record of where the
>>>Rouen photograph originated and as it's almost identical to the
>>>Trent image in the first place, I wondered if the 'Rouen
>>>photograph' was in fact intended to have been a copy of the
>>>'Trent saucer'.

>>>If so, perhaps when it had been copied in the 1950s, the
>>>'duplicate' wasn't exact, became slightly stretched and some of
>>>the precise detail wasn't mirrored in the copying process. This
>>>is maybe easier to see in the graphics file.>

Rudiak Wrote:

>>Oh, come on!  Even stretched, diced, sliced, shredded and
>>otherwise manipulated, the Rouen photograph very obviously is
>>_not_ a simple copy of the Trent photo in many respects
>>>detail, clarity of image, graininess, etc.).


>Dave,

>As we know the 'Rouen' image isn't an exact copy of the 'Trent
>saucer', that was never a contention.

>If it was, there would be little point in undertaking the
>exercise of considering, as I said, "how much image manipulation
>was required to make a 'Rouen' photograph from the Trent image".

To go from the Trent #2 to the Rouen photo requires "morphing"
or non-linear stretching. Could this have been done in 1957?
Perhaps with the use of non-symmeric lenses (not a cylindrical
lens). But who would think of it?  If someone wanted to create a
Trent-like photo but at another aspect one could make a model
and then photograph it at will.

I do not believe that whoever took or "created" the Rouen photo
blew up the Trent image and then photographed it with a
"distorted" lens. (Note: the top of the "pole" in the Rouen
photo is more distinct than in the Trent photo. Need some "photo





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   Mar > Mar 5

                         Re: Opening the Lost Tombs

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:41:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 21:50:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Opening the Lost Tombs


>From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Opening the Lost Tombs
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:11:11 -0800

>>IUFO  Mailing List
>>From: MT <theroux@borderlands.com>
>>Subject: Opening the Lost Tombs
>>Date: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 2:50 PM

>>Check out this site:

>>http://www.enterprisemission.com/opentomb.html


>These glyphs, actually long known to Rosicrucians, are indeed
>representations of ancient Egyptian high technology.  What's not
>clear is why Hoagland is deliberately misrepresenting them.
>the object to the right of the helicopter, which he compares to
>the Millenium Falcon, is, in actuality, a perfect rendering of a
>pocket knife with its awl protruding. These were very popular
>among the "Young Falcon's" -- the Old Kingdom's equivalent of
>Boy Scouts.

Big Snip


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

But, after all, the Egytians were Martians... so who can tell
what marvelous technological feats they may have accomplished...

(the Shadow knows!)





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                           Re: UFO Sighting Sites

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:53:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 21:56:49 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Sighting Sites


>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 14:29:18 -0500
>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UFO Sighting Sites

>After purchasing aeromagnetic and gravitational anomaly maps
>from the United States Geological Survey, it becomes evident
>that there was indeed a valid connection between these areas and
>UFOs.

This sort of statement is highly suspect, scientifically and
otherwise.

These claims are routinely made without any indication that any
consideration has been given to the role of chance in such
"connections". This is nearly inexcusable, given the work done
by Vallee on Michel's orthoteny.

Allow me to restate the reasons why researchers should take such
claims skeptically:

1) The position of a UFO during a sighting can rarely be
assigned with any level of certainty, since most reports go no
further than the witness assertion of position. Such assertions
are only fully credible when the object is within 500', and
depend heavily in all cases on the witness assumption of the
size of the object.

It is not stated that these claims are based on any specific
data set, so that the data set can be critiqued for its
selection of cases. This makes it impossible to independently
verify the claims.

2) If one takes a sufficient distribution of two things they are
bound to overlap. Thus, one must test the possibility that the
overlap is due to chance. In the case of the assertion above,
this must be done by generating a random population of points
over the geo (not aero) magnetic and gravity anomalies, and then
performing the same calculation on those points which was
performed to determine the connection with the UFO dataset. If
the chances of a random point being in proximity to the anomaly
is not significantly different from the chance of the UFO
sighting point being in that proximity, then the "connection" is
probably due to chance. This problem is faced by this claimed
connection, the ELH, and the orthotenic theory of Michel. In the
case of Michel, it has been demonstrated by one researcher that
the alignments can be ascribed to chance.

3) There are many spurious correlations which are caused by
something other than the claimed factor. For instance, we know
that UFOs are often reported to follow high terrain. Since both
gravitational and magnetic anomalies often are associated with
mountains and hills, it may very well be that, should such a
correlation rise above chance, that it has nothing to do with
the anomalies, but has to do with the presence of high terrain,
or some other factor.

Ultimately, anyone making such a claim must specify (at
minimum):

1) The data set of UFO sightings used. Preferably this data set
is publicly available, and the method by which locations were
derived is explicity available.

2) The level of proximity in time or space between the claimed
"connected" event or location and any given UFO sighting which
is required for a "connection".

3) A described test to determine the probability of such
connection being due to chance.

>Mr. Tery gave a lecture in Arizona about that >relationship,
and was subsequently harassed by the FBI, and told >that the
information is "sensitive." Mr. Tery took the hint and >declined
to talk publicly about it to the degree that he had >been doing.

This alone is the typical claim of the charlatan. We should know
that by now.

>Both the aeromagnetic and gravitational (Bougier Gravity) maps
>indicate basic field strength, as well as areas of high and low
>field strength. Interestingly enough, the areas of maximum and
>minimum field strength have the following:

>o  All have frequent UFO sightings.

How frequent? How much more frequently than elsewhere? What is
the threshold for "frequent". Do such concentrations of
"frequency" occur away from these anomalies?

>o  All are either on Indian Reservations, governmentland, or
the >government is trying to buy up the land.

All what? Anomalies? I don't think so. UFO sightings? Of course
not.

>o  Many of them, especially where several are clustered together,
>are suspected bases areas and/or areas where mutilations and
>abductions have historically taken place.

Suspected by who? Bases for what?

>In these observations, Mr. Tery has gone far, but he has gone a
>little farther in noting that there are times when the UFOs are
>seen in these areas. Through painstaking research, Mr. Tery
>found that the sightings, as well as many abductions and
>mutilations, occur:

>o  On the new moon or within two days before the new moon.

>o  On the full moon or within two days before the full moon.

>o  At the perihelion (moon closest to earth) or within two days
>before the perihelion.

>A glance at the nearest farmers' almanac will give you the
>information you require as far as the days for this year or any
>other one. There seems to be no concrete explanation for the
>coincidence of the times and the events, but it is true.

Again, a little statistical rigor would be nice. How likely is
it that this is due to chance? What is the data set? How many
days of month are left when these days are left out? What is the
frequency on other days?

"Painstaking research"? Doesn't seem that way, so far.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo.htm
------





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   Mar > Mar 5

                         'UFOs: 50 Years of Denial'

From: Jim Green <hal@futuresouth.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 13:38:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:14:09 -0500
Subject: 'UFOs: 50 Years of Denial'


I applaud TLC for their week-long airing of UFO material. Last
night's program, '50 Year's of Denial', was one of the best of
the week, with serious calls for an end of the secrecy and
blatant disinformation that has been foisted upon the citizens
of planet earth all these years.

I also applaud SETI and SERENDIP for the work they're doing, but
plead with scientists to investigate our own atmosphere for what
we're being told that we really didn't see.

If colonization is the ultimate alien plan, 50 years has been
sufficient time to set it in motion. So, do we continue to
believe the debunkers and government disinformation, or rise up,
united, stop bickering amongst ourselves as ufologists, and
demand to know the truth, good or bad, let the chips fall





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                      Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?

From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 15:36:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:18:42 -0500
Subject: Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?


>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:39:59 -0500
>From: Robert Moore <ENGIMA9@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?
>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>,

>SCHOOLBOY Alex Birch, blamed for hoaxing the world with a
>sensational DIY flying saucer snap 37 years ago, now insists his
>story was true.

<snip>

>Sorry, I don't buy this at all! Alex Birches' photograph is a
>hoax, pure and simple. It looks like it is - a fuzzy image of
>'UFOs' painted onto a sheet of glass!

Don't worry Robert - no one is falling for this story; I was
simply posting this tale (which appears in the Yorkshire Post
and various other tabloids today) as an example of how
unscrupulous people are jumping on the UFO industry bandwagon.

I took the opportunity some months ago to track down the two
other "witnesses" to this sighting in 1962, who were named in
the newspaper accounts of the time. What they had to say about
Alex Birch, the photograph, and his sudden reappearance were
most illuminating.

David Brownlow, now 48 years old, still lives in the Mosbrough
area. His statement reaads:

"It was a hoax. Alex has always run with it more than I have. It
was painted on glass. We were just messing around in Alex's
dad's greenhouse when we had the idea to do it. We were all into
Quatermass and War of the Worlds at the time.

"It was Alex's idea to take the photo but then his dad and a
teacher at the school got hold of it and we all got swept along
with the hoax which just snowballed. It was an incredible
experience and we had our ten minutes of fame at the time.

"I just want to forget about it now."

Stuart Dixon, the third "witness" who was 16 at the time, and is
now 53, was even more forthcoming. He said:

"Alex is a Jack the Lad and he is always on the make. "It was a
fake and no matter what Alex says that's what it was all along -
he's just out to make money out of it and I can only guess he's
fallen on hard times.

We had a teacher at school who was a UFO freak and I said let's
fake a photo of one and so we did, We did this picture and got
the money to develop it, which took us 8-9 months. But it was a
perfect picture and this teacher fell for it straight away -
next thing it was in the papers and on TV all around the world.

"We just painted them on a pane of glass - we got the idea of
the basic cone shapes from comic books and TV.

"If you look at the original negative you could see the British
Oak Pub in the background, the chimney stack is at a slant and
you can actually see the edge of the pane of glass that we
painted the UFOs onto.

So we had another negative made and that cost =A3100 - that;s the
one which we gave to Phillip Rodgers.

The more people believed in it the more it took off and
mushroomed.

"We had a right good system of lying at the time - we could lie
to anyone and they would not know. We all agreed to stick
together and stay with the story, and that's what we did for ten
years."

This cautionary tale should teach us a few basic lessons:

1) Hoaxers are not necessarily always in it for the money: they
get satisifaction out of fooling people and making them believe
in something which is not real, the more the better, and others
"get off" on the fame and attention fake UFO stories bring them.

2) Multi-witness sightings do not indicate genuine UFO
sightings. Here there were three witnesses who successfully lied
for ten years. One is still doing so.

3) Kodak's top experts analysed the Birch photos in 1962 and
pronounced them genuine. The British MOD too were baffled and
could only offer a shaky "ice crystals" explanation (I have the
PRO file on the case). Need I say any more?





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   Mar > Mar 5

                             BUFOSC Foil Hoaxers

From: Lynda Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 20:52:09 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:27:26 -0500
Subject: BUFOSC Foil Hoaxers


BUFOSC chairman Eric Morris, along with his group, have foiled a
sad and desperate attempt by two "witnesses" to mislead and
discredit Eric's and others research.

A woman calling herself Caroline Sutton phoned Eric with an
incredulous sighting earlier this week over Knutsford. The
woman, along with a partner, claimed to have seen a series of
lights and even gave details of a landing site.

Eric, being the excellent investigator that he is took photos
and video footage of the area and members of his group joined
him and started tracing witnesses.

The woman Caroline or "CHAS" gave an address in Southport which
in itself was strange considering that is where Tim Matthews
lives (my husband) and we had just had our successful conference
only last saturday in the town centre.

Anyway, after some digging, it turns out that Caroline Sutton or
"Chas" is actually an author who was published in America last
year - turns out to be a book of scientific hoaxes! She also
seems to have links with the "Chicago Academy of Science". After
Eric phoned to challenge her on these things she put the phone
down! Her supposed address is in Southport, her telephone number
has an answer phone message which states she is out getting up
to "jiggery pokery" and she also owes money to a hotel in
Cheshire. Nice lady, eh!

Perhaps she thought Eric was like alot of other investigators
out there and would believe anything without evidence. I think
she has met more than her match in Tim and Eric. The photos and
video footage that Eric took of the "landing site" will now be
passed onto the authorities to see if the owners of the land
where considerable damage was inflicted, can now press for
criminal damage.

What a shame someone does this for a joke. When Tim comes back
on -line he will release more information about this shameful
charade and we will expose more hoaxers and hoaxes when we can.
There seems to be a huge push at the moment to discredit several
UFO researchers.






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   Mar > Mar 5

                    Re: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton

From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 21:00:41 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:28:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton


>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:51:34 -0500
>From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton [was: Kilgallen...]
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 08:11:59 -0500
>>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Dorothy Kilgallen and UFOs

>>I am interested in gathering more information on Fontes,
>>Mountbatten and Creighton, any tips are appreciated...

>Kenny

>Yesterday myself and Sue Lawrence were researching another
>matter and came across some info on Gordon Creighton. We will
>let you know if we manage to contact him. I assume he's still
>alive ? <g>

I can assure you that Gordon Creighton is still alive as I was
talking to him on the phone on Wednesday 3rd March.

Regards,


John Hayes

jhayes@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com
UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/
UFOICQ Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:-
        http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/





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   Mar > Mar 5

                  Re: Jeff Rense Weekly e-Newsletter 3-5-99

From: Rense Reports <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:24:34 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:38:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Jeff Rense Weekly e-Newsletter 3-5-99



  ***  Jeff Rense Weekly e-Newsletter  ***

  The Week Ahead
3-7-99 thru 3-14-99

  Guests, Announcements, Week's Top Stories
From sightings.com


Jeff Rense News is distributed by Free Subscription Only.
If you wish to unsubscribe, email: jocelyn@dewittec.net


   *** From Jeff's Desk ***

Great thanks and appreciation to Jocelyn and Lauren for editing
and making this little newsletter possible.  It is not going to
shake up the world, but it's free and we are glad to be able to
send each of you a little something special every week.

I am now broadcasting over a new radio syndicator, the Equity
Radio Network, and thank them for their superb professionalism
and dedication to making the transition as effortless as
possible. See the 'About The Show' link for full details.

The past week yielded another outstanding group of programs and
information highlighted by that remarkable conversation on
Tuesday with legendary remote viewer, Ingo Swann, which included
more sensational material from his new book 'Penetration' and
his arresting views on what is REALLY happening on the Moon.
Thursday's program with Peter Robbins (Co-author with Larry
Warren of 'Left At East Gate') is being called the most
important radio interview yet on the truly chilling events at
RAF Bentwaters in December 1980.  I was able to bring two
surprise NEW witnesses to the program who, for the first time
ever, described their personal accounts of what happened those
eerie, cold winter nights nearly 20 years ago.

The coming week's programs promise to be just as outstanding
starting with a true WORLD EXCLUSIVE Sunday, March 7 when you
will hear Lloyd Pye and Mark Bean reveal the incredible story of
what may be the first ET/human hybrid skull ever found. Hope you
can join us, but if not you can certainly hear the programs via
our RealAudio Archives.  Check the Guest schedule for the full
list of world class individuals you will be hearing over the
next 7 days.

Hope you have been able to avoid that dreadful illness which has
been moving through our society like a power lawnmower.  Many
are still pointing to the mystery contrails as the culprit but
no one knows with certainty what is going on over our heads.
Theories abound. For now, try to keep your immune system in peak
performance ...cut back on meat and dairy products, increase
fruits and vegetables, appropriate supplements and drink more
pure water. ABOVE ALL, keep hands and fingers out of mouth,
nose, and eyes ....that is the number ONE vector of spreading
most bacterial and viral infections. Remember, Mother was right:
wash your hands!


  *** TOP STORIES ***

Just a few of the last week's most intriguing!
http://www.sightings.com


---<+>---
 URGENT
    IRS Special Agent Resigns - Finds IRS
   Has No Laws To Collect Tax
---<+>---

     * Egyptologist Amargi Hillier: 'Is Hoagland
 Stealing The Research Of Others?'

     * 1998 Canadian UFO Survey Results - Nearly 200
 UFOs Last Year

     * Adolf Hitler's Secret FBI Files Now On The Net

     * Israel Blackmailed Bill With Monica Tapes
 - New Book

     * GM Cross-Pollinations Fears Growing
 - Warning Issued

     * NGST - Awesome Space Telescope 40 Times More
 Powerful Than Hubble

     * UFOs Visit Russia - Big Wave In Italy - Strange
 SA Sighting

     * China Lashes Out At Pentagon Missile Report

     * Reno Wants DNA Taken From Anyone Arrested

     * La Nina Could Double Number Of US Tornados
 This Year

     * Cholesterol - What You Should Know and Why

     * 25% Of CA Air Force Reserve Pilots Quit Over
 Anthrax Vaccine

Read these fascinating articles and dozens more at
www.sightings.com All stories are saved and archived
in our huge DataPages section


     *** FEATURE ARTICLES ***

Did a UFO Land In Cheshire, UK? From Tim Matthews

In a new twist to yesterday's report from the British UFO
Studies Centre relating to claims by local witnesses of a "UFO
Landing" event in Knutsford, Cheshire, we can confirm that
further remarkable reports have been forthcoming.

Last night, during another well-attended BUFOSC meeting in
Warrington, Cheshire, Director Eric Morris was reporting the
events of Sunday night/Monday morning to the audience when he
received a message on his pager. UFOs were being reported;
witnesses had just seen similar anomalous lights in the
Knutsford area. As a result, Irene Dale and Sarah Cardwell,
investigators with the British UFO Studies Centre, immediately
left for the scene and arrived in time to see the lights.

The entire text of this story is at sightings.com
-----------

CMEs - If The Sun Spits, The Earth Could Fry;
By David Appell
 If the Sun spits, the Earth fries. Humankind is ill-prepared
for the furious climax of the next solar cycle.

Batten down the hatches, there's a storm coming. Some time in
the next 18 months, the Sun will turn from a relatively placid
ball of hot ionised gases into a raging tempest of plasma,
spitting fireballs out into the Solar System like an angry god.
Woe betide any planet that gets in its way.

Should one of those plasma storms hit Earth, the impact could be
devastating. Each fireball--known as a coronal mass ejection
--is a giant maelstrom of ionised gases at temperatures of well
over a million degrees. But the temperature is the least of
Earth's worries. The plasma will tear through the Earth's
magnetic field like wind through grass. These wildly fluctuating
fields can knock out power supplies, and charged particles from
the plasma can fry the electronic components inside
telecommunications satellites, bringing down communications
networks over vast areas. A few scientists and engineers are
preparing for the worst while others, strangely, have chosen to
ignore the problem.

The entire text of this story is at sightings.com

-----------------

    *** THIS WEEK'S GUESTS ***
 3-7-99 thru 3-14-99

(Please note Jeff's Guest schedule can change due to late
 breaking stories, etc)

SUN 3-7-99
  Lloyd Pye: ET Hybrid Skull Found?
 ...tests underway, scientists confounded!

MON 3-8-99
  Jerome Clark: Author 'The UFO Encyclopedia'
 ...tying the UFO enigma all together

TUE 3-9-99
  Nick Bunick: Author 'In God's Truth'
  ...angelic experiences...spiritual beings

  Jon Rappoport: Author 'Lifting The Veil'
  ...big government, big business, and big media

WED 3-10-99
 Michael Lindemann: Weekly UFO/ET Update

 David Icke:  World Control Revelations
  ...the most controversial speaker in the world!

THU 3-11-99
 Budd Hopkins: The ET Abduction Phenomena
 ...new trends, new developments, new fears

FRI 3-12-99
 Brad Steiger:  A Evening Of The Paranormal
 ...and your ghost stories and bizarre calls

SAT 3-13-99
 David John Oates Reverse Speech Show.
 The discoverer of RS does reversals live
 on the air!

-------------------

 SPECIAL SECTIONS:

RenseWorld! Visit the most amazing cyber experience ever... An
entire VIRTUAL PLANET is now open for online exploration -- a
TRUE cyber phenomenon! Click on the RenseWorld banner on
http://www.sightings.com

Jeff Rense Y2K RESOURCE CENTER
http://www.sightings.com/y2kresource/y2k1r.html
-------------------------

THE HIDDEN MYSTERIES OF THE PYRAMIDS
to released on March 20th! A prepublication special for
newsletter readers! This is a must see - it's the one they
didn't want you to see twenty years ago.
http://www.immunotex.com/pyramid/

--------------------------
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-------------------------
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-------------------------
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--------------------------

"Man is born to live and not prepare to live."
- Boris Pasternak






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   Mar > Mar 5

                    Re: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton

From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:46:24 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:42:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton


>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:51:34 -0500
>From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Fontes, Mountbatten and Creighton [was: Kilgallen...]
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 08:11:59 -0500
>>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Dorothy Kilgallen and UFOs

>>I am interested in gathering more information on Fontes,
>>Mountbatten and Creighton, any tips are appreciated...

>Kenny

>Yesterday myself and Sue Lawrence were researching another
>matter and came across some info on Gordon Creighton. We will
>let you know if we manage to contact him. I assume he's still
>alive ? <g>


I have supplied Kenny with Gordon Creighton's, Tel number direct..

Max Burns






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   Mar > Mar 6

                         Re: Opening the Lost Tombs

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:03:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 05:58:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Opening the Lost Tombs

>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:41:21 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Opening the Lost Tombs
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>But, after all, the Egytians were Martians... so who can tell
>what marvelous technological feats they may have accomplished...

C'mon, Bruce, we all know the Egyptians built the Stargate,
right?

Don't you watch Showtime?

<grin>

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo.htm
------





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   Mar > Mar 6

                   -=[For The Record]=- Meier Case - Redux

From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 06:46:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 06:46:55 -0500
Subject: -=[For The Record]=- Meier Case - Redux


The Eduard Billy Meier Case -- Redux

I was recently given a numbered (No. 110 of 2,000) limited first
edition copy of Wendelle C. Stevens's groundbreaking book, UFO
Contact from The Pleiades: A Preliminary Investigation Report,
copyright 1978. I d never read the book before, and had only
given the Eduard Billy Meier case a cursory look when it first
surfaced back in the late 70 s.

Having seen the big coffee table book of the incredible full
color photos, I like many others never gave the Meier case much
credit it was simply too good to be true. But my recent receipt
of the Stevens book just happened to coincide with some newly
surfacing revelations regarding the Meier case.

Researcher Michael Hesemann has discovered an eyewitness who had
known Billy Meier when he lived in India between April and
September 1964, while studying Buddhism at the Ashoka-Ashram in
Mehrauli near New Delhi. I quote from Hesemann's article on the
official Meier site in Switzerland.

---

In October 1996 the International Humanistic Society and the
UN's SEAT team invited me, Michael Hesemann, to present a talk
to their group at the Headquarter of the United Nations. The
lecture was held in the format of a small conference where
Carlos Diaz, Madeleine Rodeffer, and Colonel Colman VonKeviczky
also spoke.

After the event a lady approached me and introduced herself as a
member of the UN delegation of a South-East Asian country. She
asked me whether I knew Billy Meier, and I confirmed this fact
of course. She wanted to hear my opinion of him, and I replied I
was convinced of the contacts' authenticity. Her friendly face
literally lit up and then she revealed her story to me:

She had known Billy Meier when he lived in India. Between April
and September 1964, Meier had taken one of his trips around the
world.

As a young man he visited 42 countries, mostly as a hitchhiker.

He arrived at the Ashoka-Ashram in Mehrauli near New Delhi to
study Buddhism. The Ashoka Mission there, founded by King Ashoka
in the 3rd Century B.C., is the oldest Buddhist school. Its
leader today is the highly respected V.B. Dharmawara, who
recently celebrated in California his 109th birthday in good
health.

In the monastery Meier befriended the Dharmawara's grandchildren
who had previously fled to India when civil war broke out in
their own country.

One of these grandchildren was the lady who approached me in New
York. She is now an esteemed diplomat. And, incidentally, her
brother was the one who taught Meier how to catch snakes. So
this, too, was true! Until this time I had always smirked a bit
when Meier claimed he had performed hundreds of jobs on his
trips among them that of a snake catcher.

During an elaborate Indian dinner, to which she had invited me,
the lady recounted:

In those days all of us at the Mission saw the spaceships and
Meier was in contact with their pilots. Additionally, she had
seen him walking across the court yard of the Ashram accompanied
by a woman with long, brunette hair, dressed in a type of
spacesuit. Her grandfather also had been provided with
opportunities to speak with the extraterrestrial visitors.

I listened to this lady with baited breath and made a promise to
her that I would keep her name confidential and would not
mention her homeland to anyone. She simply did not want the
publicity due to the sensitive nature of her diplomatic
position.

Her important rank in her country's UN delegation was later
confirmed to me by friends who were UN colleagues of hers. Also,
the lady came across as lucid, ethical, cordial and honest. I
found out, too, that she had previously revealed the identical
information to U.S. researcher Wendelle Stevens after one of his
lectures in New York. Because she wished to renew her contact
with Meier, I provided her with his address.


This, and the fact that Hesemann has personally interviewed
Meier, his son Methusalem, and 20 of his eyewitnesses -
something none of Meier's detractors has done - provides strong
impetus for a serious re-examination of the Meier case.


While reading the Stevens book, I came across a truly remarkable
passage that creates an even more compelling reason to examine
the Meier contacts in a serious new light.

The particular passage in question begins on page 56, and is
reproduced in its entirety below: In a contact on 2 March 1975
Meier was given three missions to carry out. Part III of the
contact pertaining to the third mission is translated as
follows:

Semjase: Today's message is not for the whole population. It is
intended only for those to whom our existence is known, but
apart from them it is primarily for your governments and
scientists. Then build up in your group who will work especially
for (the accomplishment of) this mission.

Because this message and others will be very important for the
survival of all life forms on Earth The message today is this:

For many tens of years we have been studying all spheres of your
world. The ceaseless change goes on, and too there are dangerous
developments.

For many years a dangerous change has been taking place in your
atmosphere that has a deadly portent for all earthly life.

An increasing decay in the ozone belt of the stratosphere is
being caused by the continuous production of ozone destroying
chemical substances that rise as gas into the atmosphere and
damage the ozone belt.

Especially destructive is the brom gas that rises into the
ionosphere and slowly disintegrates it. Up to now the average
loss is 6.38 percent. That is a percentage loss that for all
life forms is damaging and beginning to cause mutations.

This percentage was reached in a time of 60 years only.

Especially there are the brom gas substances that slowly destroy
the ozone belt as I have mentioned. Because of that more and
more ultraviolet rays from the sun come into the atmosphere.

They will affect all life forms.

In over 20 different areas the ozone belt is already dangerous.

In 3 different areas there is danger that it will break up
completely in a few years if the production and release of the
destructive factors is not arrested.

If this is not done by some means holes will be opened in the
protective shield and the unshielded ultraviolet rays will break
into your atmosphere and produce slow tortuous death for all
life.

Everything entering the unshielded area from the hole (in the
ionosphere) will be destroyed.

Release of the destructive chemical substances comes mainly from
explosion motors and from material destroying processes of all
kinds, like atom splitting and other processes like that. They
have been produced in great mass since 1945 throughout the whole
world and every kind of life is being given a changing kick.

Destructive chemical gases are also being released from things
of daily life because each aerosol spray can release brom gas
and other chemicals. They rise into the stratosphere and slowly
but systematically destroy it.

Researchers and scientists in several countries are discovering
this destructive loss in the ozone belt caused by chemicals,
especially the brom (gases), but now in their own unaccountable
delusion for power are turning (this knowledge) to war technical
use.

Just recently they are preparing to build rocket bodies to carry
destructive brom substances high into the atmosphere to be
exploded (there), following which very gigantic holes will be
rent in the ozone belt letting unfiltered ultraviolet rays into
the atmosphere. Such a hole can close up again only very slowly
and this process will take many hundreds of years after these
activities are discontinued.

Also to be considered is the fact that the ozone wanders as it
circulates. A hole in the protective ozone layer will not only
affect a particular area but in its wandering will affect a very
wide area. Your scientists are aware of this situation but the
population at large is not.

The duty of your group is to bring this to attention of
governments and scientists and make them aware of the dangers
and the need for control.

It is in the interest of all humanity and all life on Earth that
there be agreements between all countries to stop this deadly
insanity.

In this respect I refer you to Mr. Michael McElroy of Harvard
University in the United States who is among the foremost
researchers on this subject.

Eduard Meier made a copy of this communication and mailed it to
McElroy at Harvard as instructed. He never received a reply but
the letter also never came back.


There are a number of remarkably prescient statements in
Semjase's environmental lecture to Meier.

First off, the peculiar use of the words 'brom' and 'brom gases'
clearly must mean the gas bromine. I assume this particular
usage is simply related to the original translation into English
of Meier's written account.

It is very interesting to note that the destructive relationship
between CFC's and the catalytic cycle involving chlorine and
ozone was not discovered until 1973, as evidenced by the
following from the Center for International Earth Science
Information Network Columbia University (CIESIN):

--CIESIN thematic guide on ozone depletion issues

The catalytic cycle involving chlorine and ozone was not
discovered until 1973, and not until 1985 did Farman, Gardiner,
and Shanklin report loss of large amounts of ozone over Halley
Bay, Antarctica, in "Large Losses of Total Ozone in Antarctica
Reveal Seasonal ClOx/NOx Interaction." The suspected cause of
the depletion was catalytic cycles involving chlorine and
nitrogen.

In further studies detailed in "Polar Stratospheric Clouds and
Ozone Depletion," Toon and Turco (1991) describe the multiphase
processes involving Polar Stratospheric Clouds (PSCs) and
chlorine and nitrogen compounds that were found to be involved
in the extensive ozone loss.

Field studies in 1987, which involved flights from South America
over the Antarctic continent, showed the role of chlorine
monoxide (ClO) in the ozone depletion picture. Anderson, Brune,
and Proffitt (1989) describe a clear anti-correlation between
chlorine monoxide and ozone concentration - that is, an increase
in chlorine monoxide correlates to a decrease in ozone--inside
the polar vortex in "Ozone Destruction by Chlorine Radicals
Within the Antarctic Vortex". Depletions of greater than 50
percent of total atmospheric ozone have been observed over the
Antarctic continent.

That is echoed by the following from Environment Canada's World
Wide Web site.

The theory about ozone depletion was first put forward in 1974
by American scientists Mario Molina and F. Sherwood Rowland.

They were concerned about the impact of CFCs on the ozone layer.
Their hypothesis was met with a great deal of skepticism, but
scientific work over the next 20 years proved them correct.

In 1995, Drs. Molina and Rowland were given a Nobel Prize in
Chemistry, along with a third ozone researcher, Paul Crutzen
from the Netherlands.


It must be remembered that the mainstream press at the time was
not covering this topic in any way.

It was literally a non-issue.

No one was talking about holes in the ozone layer in March of
1975.

Yet, here is Semajse giving Meier detailed warnings of something
that would not even be scientifically observed and verified
until 1985!

Even then, it still has taken another ten years for this topic
to gain general attention by mainstream press and there is still
controversy regarding the legitimacy of these claims.

Even more remarkable is Semjase's detailed description of the
specific role of bromine gas (brom gas) in the chemical
breakdown process of ozone. This relationship was not well
understood until the late 80 s!


Consider the following:

For the halons, the ODP/BLP ratios depend on the efficiency of
bromine as compared to chlorine in destroying ozone as well as
on the stratospheric lifetime (hence the bromine release). The
efficiency of bromine relative to chlorine in depleting ozone is
hereafter referred to as, and is expected to be close to the
ODP/BLP ratio for all of the halons considered here.

It is important to note that is dependent on the absolute amount
of reactive chlorine, due to chemical coupling between chlorine
and bromine that controls the impact of bromine on ozone. The
values given here pertain to conditions of total reactive
chlorine loading close to contemporary levels.

The scenarios presented in Chapter 8 suggest that the future
chlorine loading is likely to change by less than 20 percent for
at least the next several decades. The calculated
globally-averaged values suggested by the ODP/BLP ratios in
Table 6-3 range from about 10 to 80. These illustrate the
extreme effectiveness of bromine in catalyzing ozone destruction
(first noted by Yung et al., 1980). The model-calculated values
for the halons depend critically on the portion of bromine
species found in the active form (BrO), which in turn depends on
the formation and removal rates of the reservoir species, HBr
and BrONO2. Some measurements of HBr appear difficult to
reconcile with present theory (Park et al., 1989). However,
measurements of BrO by Brune et al. (1988) are in general
agreement with model predictions, lending some support to the
calculated values and current photochemical schemes for bromine

Pyle, J. A., S. Solomon, D. Wuebbles, and S. Zvenigorodsky.
1992. Ozone depletion and chlorine loading potentials. Chapter 6
in Scientific assessment of ozone depletion: 1991.

World Meteorological Organization Global Ozone Research and
Monitoring Project--Report no. 25. Geneva: World Meteorological
Organization.


Not only did Meier's contact Semjase predict the creation of
ozone holes and give a detailed chemical picture of the causes
of such holes, she even predicted another fact discovered much
later the fact that these holes wander.

Even more remarkable, was her urging Meier that it was the duty
of his group is to bring this to attention of governments and
scientists -- in this case one Michael McElroy, currently
Professor of Environmental Studies and Chair of Harvard's
Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences and make them aware
of the dangers and the need for control.

It is in the interest of all humanity and all life on Earth that
there be agreements between all countries to stop this deadly
insanity.


I got goose bumps reading this passage.

I m still engaged in a literature search of the popular press
and mainstream journals at that time, and have yet to find a
single article about the topic of human induced ozone depletion.

It is my strong opinion that this most fascinating case of ET
contact is far from closed.


Copyright 1999
By Kim Burrafato
lensman@stardrive.org
http://www.stardrive.org


--
**************************
witch-i-tie-tie gimme-rah
whoa ra neeko whoa ra neeko
hey ney hey ney no-wah
witch-i-tie-tie gimme-rah
whoa ra neeko whoa ra neeko
hey ney hey ney no-wah
waterspirit feelin
springin round my head
makes me feel glad
that i'm not dead.
**************************






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   Mar > Mar 6

                  Re: More Helo Terrorism In Massachusetts

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:10:02 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 06:52:56 -0500
Subject: Re: More Helo Terrorism In Massachusetts


>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:17:10 -0600
>Subject: Re: More Helo Terrorism In Massachusetts
>From: Stephen MILES Lewis <elfis@io.com
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net


>A word of warning. The recent news of helicopter/troop
>activities in a small Texas town (reproduced within UFO Roundup)
>are highly exaggerated and misleading, according to my
>exMilitary Medic friend. When I forwarded him the reports he
>checked into them himself and found that the townspeople were
>not alarmed as had been reported.

I did not report the Texas incidentBut it bears striking
resemblance to the events in Lowell last night. In light of
that, the Texas report is credible.

I have (until this morning) viewed these reports with skepicism
for two reasons: First, in the conspiracy-charged atmosphere we
occupy, such reports almost seem made to order, as if we expect
this sort of thing to happen, and there are jokers out there who
like to say what they think some of us want to hear. Second, I
just don't want to think it's even possible. Yet, I have
reported precisely what saw on the news this morning, and it
bothered me. Just wait until it happens in your neck of the
woods. I think you'll change your tune. I reported it like I saw
it. Folks were scared,and Lowell Massachusetts is _not_ a
military training area.

What makes you think an "exMilitary Medic friend" would have
access to what the special forces are doing, particularly if
they are training for some national security problem? Or worse?

>His and my take on these growing number of reports is that it is
>likely that various extremits/alarmist individuals are slanting
>the reports to induce exactly what you are feeling, anger and
>fear towards our own military.

Who wouldn't feel alarmed at awaking in the middle of the night
to the sound of dozens of Blackhawk helicopters and explosions
in the middle of a relatively quiet city? Are we from the same
planet?

I slanted nothing, beyond the speculation following my report,
and I believe my tentative conclusions are not unjustified in
light of our military's brazen and probably illegal behavior.
There is NO need for them to be scaring American citizens that I
can ascertain. Can you find a logical reason for it? I'd love to
hear it.

>I'm not saying these fears and anger are unfounded.

Then why attack me?

>however I am tired of being manipulated by misinformation.

Understandable. Yet, this happened as I reported and I am
in contact with several people in Lowell for more information.
What you do with the information is your own problem.

>However, if any of these maneuvers are truly out of the
>ordinary, then, I too fear the possibility it could be do
>indoctrinate us for the martial law implementation you allude
>to.

They _are_ out of the ordinary. If it happens in my town, CNN's
going to know about it via a lawsuit. It isn't right. We're at
peace, last time I checked.

>Alas, this UFO forum may not be the proper place for this
>discussion, unless of course, we talk of it in the context of
>continuing UFO mileu disinformation

I must again disagree, based on the fact that yours is the only
voice raised in apparent opposition to these reports. Until
either ebk or a preponderance of the listers decide otherwise, I
think you'll find the reports will continue.

Greg





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   Mar > Mar 6

                    Hoagland Stealing Research Of Others?

From: Ron Bach <roam5@utinet.com>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 12:49:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:12:53 -0500
Subject: Hoagland Stealing Research Of Others?


Further to Richard C. Hoagland's claims of discovering the
Hieroglyphs in Abydos, Egypt, and the fact that even I had seen
pictures of the concerned glyphs on old Amargiland site, I
adamantly support Mr. Amargi Hillier's request that Mr. Richard
C. Hoagland immediately clear this misimpression.

If it was not a inadvertent circumstance on Mr. Hoagland's part
then it is very dishonorable for Mr. Hogaland  and The
Enterprise Mission. If it was inadvertent then Mr. Hoagland's
and The Enterprise Mission's research is extremely sloppy to say
the least.

In order to clear the misimpression, today I called Mr. Amargi
Hillier - Director, Project Duat, regarding Mr. Hoagland's
claims, and Mr. Hillier will be sending me additional detailed
information disproving Mr. Hoagland's claims.

Currently Mr. Hillier is in Giza, Egypt and can be reached at:
+20 (2) 385 9394. I have promised Mr. Hillier my full support in
the above matter and will help him solve at least this
controversy in this 'Strange' Industry.

Anyone who has a record of the original 3 year old hieroglyph
discovery postings, newsgroups or bbs discussions, or public
mail correspondence is kindly requested to forward the same
either to me or to any venue you deem appropriate.

A copy of this correspondence will also be sent to selected
individuals, should you receive a duplicate, then please accept
my most sincere apologies.

Kind regards,

Ron Bach
roam5@utinet.com


[Perhaps not _exactly_ the 'evidence being sought here, but
 check out:

 http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1996/dec/m29-020.shtml

 and






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   Mar > Mar 6

                         Re: Trent and Rouen Images

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 01:14:14 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:26:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:41:35 -0500
>Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 21:43:40 -0500

>To go from the Trent #2 to the Rouen photo requires 'morphing'
>or non-linear stretching. Could this have been done in 1957?
>Perhaps with the use of non-symmetric lenses (not a cylindrical
>lens). But who would think of it? If someone wanted to create
>a Trent-like photo but at another aspect one could make a model
>and then photograph it at will.

Some old photo-enlargers allow the lens to be tilted, which
tilts the image slightly, although adding a 'key-stoning'
effect. This would shorten the image, not lengthen it. But a
reverse effect could have been created by tilting the photo
paper at an angle, thus stretching the image. A model would not
be necessary.

Since no one can even come up with the source for this anonymous
picture, or anything else about it, why is it considered
important at all?

Bob Young

I do not believe that whoever took or "created" the Rouen photo
blew up the Trent image and then photographed it with a
"distorted" lens. (Note: the top of the "pole" in the Rouen
photo is more distinct than in the Trent photo. Need some "photo
retouching".)





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   Mar > Mar 6

                      Roswell's 'Smoking Gun' Is Found?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 07:09:08 GMT
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:30:22 -0500
Subject: Roswell's 'Smoking Gun' Is Found?


Forwarded from the UFOSSI list via the UASR list.

Stig

***

[U A S R]> UFO's-, ALIEN's-, SPACE- RESEARCH   MAILING LIST <[U A S R]
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Posted by : Dave Pigott <davep@harlequin.co.uk>

>From UFOSSI's Billy Dee. We'll just have to wait and see, won't
we?

Dave

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

****Roswell's Smoking Gun**** Is Found Claims Donald Schmitt!



Late in the year of 1997 UFOSSI announced that some spectacular
NEW information and news would come to light about the on going
research and investigations of Donald Schmitt (Top Roswell Ufo
investigator) about the the 1947 Ufo crash at Roswell.

Don also assured us that we would have the exclusive story first
when it was time to announce it. We have given up-dates all
through 1998 and into 99 about this.

In a recent interview and video taping of Don Schmitt, he
revealed that they just might have the smoking gun that will
finally prove the military not only knew about the crash but
also admitted it in a document.

Schmitt believes firmly that what they have found, which is a
military document from 1947 which explains in detail of the Ufo
craft and other fine details which undeniably show and prove
there was a crash and there was a Ufo at Roswell. The document
is complete with military signatures.

The document is on a negative and has been reproduced with
astounding results. Schmitt said there will be a news
announcement about this. I asked Don just what kind of news
announcement and if it would be announced so that all the public
would be informed. He said "Yes", this information will be
announced where it will be known nationwide. In other words Don
assured me that the news coverage of this major event will be
heard by all.

The Roswell Ufo crash of 1947 has been probably the longest
on-going investigation there has been about Ufo's. To many it
has become old hat news. But we must look at the Roswell event
in this light. Roswell is where the cover-up began with the
military and the government. It all began there. So it is there
that we have to focus in. To understand the over 5 decade old
cover-up then we must go back to its beginning and to the start
to understand all that happened. Any case study is never solved
by starting in the middle or any other place except from the
very beginning. This is where the truth begins.

The Roswell event is the main and most important find in
Ufology. It is there we will find most of the answers. And it is
there we can finally crack the cover-up and find out why and who
and what and where this all began and for what reasons.

Donald Schmitt stated to me with a firm and very excited manner,
"we believe this is the smoking gun! Just wait until you see
this document. It is everything we have expected and more."

The excitement is shared with Don's team of Ufo investigators
who have spent incredible time in investigating the new
information about Roswell. But this just is not the only new
information that will be coming fourth. There is more! In fact,
we will soon see information coming from other military sources
that have finally spoken up and admitted to the crash and
cover-up.

UFOSSI will keep you posted on further up-dates as they come in.
I usually do talk to Don quite regularly so when something more
breaks we will pass it on to the UFOSSI list.

We video-interviewed Don Schmitt just last week with the
statements we quoted in this post. The over one hour long video
presentation is now available for purchase for those who would
like to have a copy of it. Those that are interested may contact
me personally at

BillyDee@ufossi.org

and order a copy. The cost is $19.95 for the video. With
shipping and packaging is $24.95. For C.O.D. it is $27.95.

The scheduled time that Don is planning to have this new
information about the new document released and announced will
be sometime this April. We will also announce the date of that
announcement in a future up-date.


Billy Dee



Posted by : Dave Pigott <davep@harlequin.co.uk>
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
^   Send " subscribe " into the BODY to:      UASR-request@MyList.net
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                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 6

                   Interview with Gordon Creighton of FSR

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 03:46:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:47:44 -0500
Subject: Interview with Gordon Creighton of FSR


Interview with:

Gordon Creighton
Editor of Flying Saucer Review


(Re: Kilgallen and UFOs)

This morning I contacted Mr. Gordon Creighton by telephone. It
was 8:00 p.m. in England at the time he took the call.

Mr. Creighton was extremely cordial, and he was eager to discuss
the Dorothy Kilgallen/UFO article from 1955. He was also well
informed about the subject of UFOs.

Creighton explained that he knew of the Kilgallen column, and
told of some details which had appeared in her '55 article. He
explained that Kilgallen had been in London while on vacation
when she wrote the '55 article which dealt with the recovery of
a 'flying saucer.'

Creighton, who is a retired British foreign service officer,
stated that he was involved in one of the first UFO magazines
published. "We launched our magazine in '55, The Flying Saucer
Review. It was the leading one in the world, the oldest one in
the world," he said.

"Prince Phillip [nephew of Mountbatten] and his uncle were the
first to ask for the Flying Saucer Review," he said. "Both
Mountbatten and Phillip had an interest in Flying Saucers."

When asked how he determined that Kilgallen's source was
Mountbatten, Creighton explained: "I assumed at the time and
even today that it was Lord Mountbatten."

When pressed further and asked for anything substantive which
drew him to this conclusion, Creighton explained: "I believe it
was Mountbatten because of the sound of it. Who knows... it
might have also been Prince Phillip."

"We know about Prince Phillip's interest, and when he visited
The States, he was interviewed, by McAll's magazine, about
flying saucers. He said 'Yes I believe it' and referenced a book
by Adamski entitled "Flying Saucers of London."

Creighton then went on to tell of a young Air Force officer who
was a laison to Prince Phillip. He explained that Peter Hoisly,
an Air Marshall of the Royal Air Force, recently wrote memoirs
revealing Prince Phillips' interest in UFOs and that the Prince
authorized Hoisly to bring people to Buckingham Palace to
discuss their UFO experiences.

"We knew of his interest before our magazine was launched,"
Creighton explained. "Prince Phillip had asked the British Air
Ministry to send him a copy of every UFO report that was
received."

Creighton also told of how information which initially flowed
freely was restricted in the years to follow. "The first year or
two, the papers were full of these reports. The clampdown on the
information came later, as in the States."

But Creighton firmly believes the source of the Kilgallen
article to be Lord Mountbatten. "That's what we do think," he
said.

Mountbatten was a member of the British Royal family and, as the
last Viceroy of India, in charge of their transition to
independence. He was killed in the 80s by an IRA bomb.

"In 1955, I wrote a letter to Kilgallen after her report, but
did not get an answer," Creighton said.

Regarding the strange death of Dorothy Kilgallen, Creighton
states: "I believe she was murdered. I reckon that Kilgallen was
onto something which may have also involved the murder of
[Marilyn] Monroe."

Creighton was thanked for his time and kind comments, and
informed that details of the conversation will appear on the
internet. "I will have my people look for it," he stated.

COMMENTS:

Gordon Creighton did not furnish anything substantive leading
him to conclude that Mountbatten was Kilgallen's source for the
1955 article. His comments which had been previously circulated
on the internet were not derived from specific, exacting
information, but rather, a conclusion based upon assumption.

Thanks to Brian Straight, Ed Stewart, Tony Spurrier, Max Burns
and John Hayes for supplying additional details about and
contact information for Gordon Creighton.






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   Mar > Mar 6

               Re: Swissair Liner's CE With 'UFO' Off NYC '97

From: Gerhard Eickenhorst <ehs@datacomm.ch>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:40:48 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:51:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Swissair Liner's CE With 'UFO' Off NYC '97


>From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:16:25 EST
>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Swissair Liner's CE With 'UFO' Off NYC '97

>Swissair-UFO, 1st Writethru

>http://www.cbcnews.cbc.ca:80/news/cp/world/990304/w030450.html

>STEPHEN THORNE

>OTTAWA (CP) - A Swissair pilot reported his 737 jet was nearly
>hit by an unidentified flying object, possibly a missile, near
>the area off New York where a TWA airplane crashed in 1996, The
>Canadian Press has learned.

Hello from Switzerland,

Swissair has or never had 737 planes. As a formal Swissair
technician I think I should tell you. I think Stephen Thorne was
thinking of a 747.

>Swissair Flight 127 was cruising at 23,000 feet on Aug. 9, 1997,
>when the pilot interrupted an address to passengers to report
>the near miss by a round white object, says a report by the U.S.
>National Transportation Safety Board.


Cheers,
Gerhard

PS: I'm into UFOS since 15 years - never seen one - but hope to
maybe one day.....






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   Mar > Mar 6

                           Re: BUFOSC Foil Hoaxers

From: Rory Lushman <rory.l@zen.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 10:08:42 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 09:02:23 -0500
Subject: Re: BUFOSC Foil Hoaxers


>From: Lynda Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: BUFOSC Foil Hoaxers
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 20:52:09 -0000

>BUFOSC chairman Eric Morris, along with his group, have foiled a
>sad and desperate attempt by two "witnesses" to mislead and
>discredit Eric's and others research.

>A woman calling herself Caroline Sutton phoned Eric with an
>incredulous sighting earlier this week over Knutsford. The
>woman, along with a partner, claimed to have seen a series of
>lights and even gave details of a landing site.

Eric reported to me three weeks ago that he'd had a report of a
landing. Is this the same case. If not, what has become of it
and if it is the same case, why is this woman trying to
discredit Eric? These are very sad individuals who waste
researchers time and effort.

Most of us are working and the last thing we need is to be
chasing non-events. It was good to see Eric was not fooled.

You see what we have to put up with in the UK? Hoaxes and
romancers.

Rory Lushman.





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   Mar > Mar 6

                         Re: Opening the Lost Tombs

From: Jens Hassler <Lukey@stepnet.de>
Date: 06 Mar 1999 14:51:00 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 09:13:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Opening the Lost Tombs


>From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Opening the Lost Tombs
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:11:11 -0800

>These glyphs, actually long known to Rosicrucians, are indeed
>representations of ancient Egyptian high technology.

These hieroglyphes surely don't represent any 'modern
technology' (it would be hard to imagine modern looking
helicopters in ancient Egypt). Instead, the drawings are nothing
more than normal egyptian hieroglyphs like the 'hand' or the
'basket'.

The 'helicopter', for example, consists of two 'forearms' that
carry a thing like a table. The lower portion of the 'submarine'
is the hieroglyphe 'basket'. The basket is - again - held by a
forearm.

If you look at the normal egyptian hieroglyphes and compare them
to these drawings, you'll see that this is nothing 'special',
only misinterpreted constellations of hieroglyphes. I don't know
what these symbols represent,  but I can say for sure that
they're nothing unusual.

So, let's bury this old legend and concentrate on 'real'
mysteries.


JH





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                -=[For The Record]=- Rasmussen's UFO/Ezekiel

From: Skywatch International Inc. <skywatch@ltlb.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:16:29 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 09:25:10 -0500
Subject: -=[For The Record]=- Rasmussen's UFO/Ezekiel


-----Original Message-----
From: Remy C. <remyc@prodigy.net>
Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 5:10 PM
To: <snip>
Subject: Fw: Rasmussen UFO/Ezekiel article for you


I wish to extend my thanks to Joe Knowles of 'In These Times'
for sharing the full text of this review.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Knowles <knowles@inthesetimes.com>
To: remyc@prodigy.net <remyc@prodigy.net>
Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 4:12 PM
Subject: Rasmussen UFO/Ezekiel article for you


Hi there--

Here's the text of Rasmussen's article.

enjoy,

Joe Knowles

culture editor, In These Times


Review:

Children of Ezekiel: Aliens, UFOs,
the Crisis of Race, and the Advent
of End Time
by Michael Lieb
Duke University Press

MEANINGS TO AN END
By Chris Rasmussen

Source: In These Times magazine, Feb. 7, 1999

Some 2,600 years ago, as the Hebrews endured captivity at the
hands of the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar, the prophet Ezekiel
glimpsed an awe-inspiring vision. While walking along the banks
of the river Chebar, he saw God, heralded by four winged
creatures, each with four faces: those of a man, lion, ox and
eagle. These extraordinary beings were accompanied by four
gigantic wheels, covered with all-seeing eyes. Atop a maelstrom
of flames, whirlwinds and lightning, the Lord sat in majesty on
a gleaming throne-chariot of sapphire and amber. Afterward,
Ezekiel prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem and implored the
Jews to seek deliverance by rededicating themselves to their
faith.

Despite his legendary power of foresight, Ezekiel could never
have imagined the uses to which his vision later would be put.
In our time, Ezekiel's seemingly inscrutable vision of God's
fiery chariot has been used to explain the Cold War, tensions in
the Middle East, race relations in the United States and the
existence and purpose of UFOs. Michael Lieb, a distinguished
Milton scholar at the University of Illinois, Chicago and an
expert on biblical prophecy, argues that contemporary prophets
of the apocalypse and avatars of technology-scientists,
politicians, religious leaders or poets-are indeed the "children
of Ezekiel." Lieb's book is an extraordinarily wide-ranging
attempt to reveal the deep connections between the many forms of
apocalyptic thought in our era. "End-timers," he argues,
represent a host of religious and political persuasions, but all
adhere to a basic creed that mingles belief in biblical prophecy
with belief in fantastic technology. Believers, filmmakers,
writers and militarists all seem to have their watches
synchronized, counting down the final seconds.

Children of Ezekiel is testament to the importance of taking
seriously the religious significance coded into our popular
culture, and of studying popular books, films and speeches with
the rigor once reserved for reading poems, novels and even the
Bible. Lieb analyzes the legacy of Ezekiel's prophecy and its
resonance for contemporary science fiction writers, politicians,
evangelical Protestants and Black Muslims. One cannot help but
be dazzled by an author capable of offering learned textual
exegesis of Hebrew scriptures and Paradise Lost-while engagingly
discussing the abiding influence of these texts in the theology
of Jehovah's Witnesses, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, the
Strategic Defense Initiative, cyberpunk fiction and the speeches
of Louis Farrakhan.

According to Lieb, Ezekiel's prophecy, with its sighted wheels
and throne-chariot, is emblematic of a human impulse to
"technologize the ineffable," to give tangible shape to
inexpressible spiritual yearnings. Technology, Lieb argues, is
much more than mere hardware: It is a means to express and
realize one's worldview. The far-flung children of Ezekiel, he
writes, share a faith that machines-especially weapons and
spacecraft-will be the vehicles for implementing their vision of
God's will here on earth. No longer content only to see the
fiery chariot, the children of Ezekiel reach for the reins. They
want not only to see God, but to be God, to seize control of
events and fulfill their own understanding of the divine plan.

Recent advances in technology have enabled humans to express
their interpretations of God's ordained end of the world in ways
that Ezekiel never could have glimpsed. We have replaced
Ezekiel's wheels and flames with nuclear weapons, jet fighters
and spacecraft. Truly awesome, destructive weapons not only have
skewed the balance of power on earth, but perhaps even between
humans and God. We live in a world where humans have the power
to produce, as well as prophesy, a fiery apocalypse.

Lieb uncovers plenty of examples of this powerful impulse to
foresee-or even witness-the End Time, in works of popular
culture that are too frequently dismissed as ephemeral, even
wacko. Fascination with UFOs, Lieb notes, "has become an
all-pervasive feature of modern culture." The flying saucer is
the contemporary equivalent of Ezekiel's throne-chariot. Lieb
investigates the writings of self-proclaimed "ufologists," who
almost universally subscribe to a mixture of futuristic
technology and apocalypticism. For decades, many Americans have
been fascinated by the possibility of life on other planets and
by the prospect that extra-terrestrial beings might visit Earth.
Indeed, many believers in UFOs maintain that extra-terrestrials
have already made contact, and insist that UFOs are not science
fiction.

Lieb analyzes the work of writers such as Erich von D=E4niken,
whose wildly popular 1968 book, Chariots of the Gods, contended
that archaeological evidence suggested extra-terrestrial beings
had visited earth centuries ago. According to von D=E4niken (who
claimed to have experienced his own "vision" of
extra-terrestrials), Ezekiel's vision of wheels and flames was
not symbolic, but a description of the sophisticated technology
possessed by "ancient astronauts." Inspired by von D=E4niken's
work, NASA engineer Josef Blumrich painstakingly drew plans for
spacecraft based on the Old Testament prophecy in his 1974 book,
The Spaceships of Ezekiel. In these modern re-tellings,
Ezekiel's vision is not a glimpse of God's majesty, but a
blueprint for actual technology.

Other modern-day interpreters of Ezekiel believe that human
beings, rather than extra-terrestrials, pilot the divine
spacecraft. Most contemporary visions of the apocalypse remain
inextricably entwined with articles of religious faith. For many
evangelical Christians, knowledge of the end of the world has
been derived from what scholar Andrew Lang calls the
"nuclearization of the Bible." Certain that God will soon
unleash an apocalypse, many evangelicals pore over the prophetic
books of Ezekiel, Daniel and Revelations to foretell the
ultimate battle of Armageddon.

In his best-selling The Late Great Planet Earth, published in
1970, evangelical preacher Hal Lindsey described Ezekiel's
prophecy as "a blueprint" for the future of global politics, and
predicted that a cataclysmic battle for control of Israel,
involving the Soviet Union and China, would result in the
annihilation of the Middle East and culminate in the second
coming of Christ. Lindsey's book, the single most influential
modern interpretation of Ezekiel's vision, circulated widely
among American military officers, and Lindsey himself was
invited to speak to military planners at the American War
College and the Pentagon.

This apocalyptic worldview is thus no idle prophecy; it has
exerted a powerful impact on our political life in recent years.
Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and legions of evangelical
Christians have wielded considerable influence in the Republican
Party, especially during the Reagan era. As Lieb recounts,
Reagan himself "was an inveterate end-timer whose outlook fully
reflected the impact of prophecy belief." At a political banquet
in 1971, over a flaming dessert of cherries jubilee, then-Gov.
Reagan regaled his tablemates with his own interpretation of
Ezekiel, proclaiming excitedly that "everything is in place for
the battle of Armageddon and the second coming of Christ."

A decade later, President Reagan, ever certain that the end of
history was nigh, launched a massive weapons build-up to prepare
for the final conflagration. Ultimately, he proposed his own
high-tech vision of fire in the heavens, the Strategic Defense
Initiative, an anti-missile system that he promised would render
the United States immune to attack. SDI was yet another effort
to "technologize the ineffable" by utilizing sophisticated
weaponry to realize a divine plan. Reagan's missile defense
system was his attempt to ensure that the forces of good would
be spared in the inevitable battle against the forces of evil.
Quickly dubbed "Star Wars," SDI was, like George Lucas' sci-fi
blockbuster, a big-budget fantasy, an attempt to conjure "the
Force" in order to defeat the "Evil Empire." As Reagan's "Star
Wars" vision suggests, the apocalyptic worldview encompasses
high and popular culture, and mixes science fiction, political
views and religion.

And just as the Bible has been nuclearized, it has also been
racialized. Nearly half of Lieb's book concerns the powerful
influence of Ezekiel's vision on the Nation of Islam and its
leader, Farrakhan. In the NOI's version of Ezekiel, as
delineated by founder Elijah Muhammad, the wheels have been
transformed into a gigantic Mother Wheel, or Mother Plane, a
spacecraft that hovers over the Earth, awaiting the foreordained
moment when it will annihilate the white race. Farrakhan claims
to have received a divine vision while taken aboard the Mother
Plane in 1985, and believes the ship watches over him wherever
he travels.

While such claims-along with Farrakhan's well-publicized racial
animosity, anti-Semitism and other tenets of his worldview-may
seem strange or repugnant, Lieb writes, the minister is far too
sophisticated and influential to be written off as a crackpot or
bigot. His political and social creed is a complicated, potent
hybrid of theology, numerology, ufology, strict self-reliance,
black nationalism and longstanding African-American yearnings
for deliverance. His words and deeds have inspired thousands of
followers. Lieb's analysis of Farrakhan's views is notably
understanding, even sympathetic. Rather than just accept the
media's depiction of Farrakhan as a hate-monger or demagogue,
Lieb argues that it behooves us to understand the sources of his
appeal.

We should heed Lieb's admonition not to snicker or sneer at
these modern-day prophets, but to treat them with the utmost
seriousness. At the end of the millennium, we are confronted
with millions of end-timers, who not only foresee imminent
apocalypse, but welcome it, and eagerly seek to make their
prophecy of The End self-fulfilling.

Lieb has performed important intellectual and political work by
tracing the long genealogy of these various "children of
Ezekiel" and the profound connections between technology and
religion in the modern world. He prudently declines to predict
the future, but one hopes that uncovering the persistent, eerie
allure of belief in the end of time may help prevent, or at
least postpone, its advent.


Chris Rasmussen teaches American cultural history at the
University of Nevada, Las Vegas. He is completing Automatic Age,
a history of coin-operated machines.


***************************
SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC.
(A Non-Profit Organization)







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   Mar > Mar 6

                  Re: Hoagland Stealing Research Of Others?

From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 09:23:48 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 09:39:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Hoagland Stealing Research Of Others?

>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 12:49:29 -0700
>From: Ron Bach <roam5@utinet.com>
>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Hoagland Stealing Research Of Others?

>Further to Richard C. Hoagland's claims of discovering the
>Hieroglyphs in Abydos, Egypt, and the fact that even I had seen
>pictures of the concerned glyphs on old Amargiland site, I
>adamantly support Mr. Amargi Hillier's request that Mr. Richard
>C. Hoagland immediately clear this misimpression.

>If it was not a inadvertent circumstance on Mr. Hoagland's part
>then it is very dishonorable for Mr. Hogaland  and The
>Enterprise Mission. If it was inadvertent then Mr. Hoagland's
>and The Enterprise Mission's research is extremely sloppy to say
>the least.

<snip>

>[Perhaps not _exactly_ the 'evidence being sought here, but
> check out:

> http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1996/dec/m29-020.shtml

> and

> http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/hamilton/ancientaircraft_nf.shtml

> Where there are several images. While not proving Amargi Hillier's
> claims as to the provenance of the material it dates the information
> to at least December 1996 --ebk]

Hello,

I have a section on these images from 3 years ago.

I too thought it unusual that Hoagland was making these claims
when I already had the pictures!

They are in the Egypt section at:

UFO Folklore !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html

Dan's Magic in Michigan
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/magician





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   Mar > Mar 6

                Hoagland Charged With More Plagiarism & Fraud

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 09:55:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 09:55:51 -0500
Subject: Hoagland Charged With More Plagiarism & Fraud



Source: Jeff Rense's 'Sightings' Homepage

http://www.sightings.com/ufo2/remedy.htm


Richard Hoagland Charged With More Plagiarism And Fraud

From Ralph Greenberg
     Professor of Mathematics
     University of Washington
     Seattle, WA

3-5-99

Note - As always, these serious allegations would seem to require
some response from Richard Hoagland. Again, we urge him to
address these issues as soon as possible. His response will be
published here as soon as received.


Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:10:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Ralph Greenberg <greenber@math.washington.edu
To: eotl@west.net
Subject: Europa and Hoagland


Dear Mr. Rense,

I've noticed that you have provided a forum on your website
about Hoagland's claim of credit for the Abydos glyphs. There is
another issue that should be brought to the attention of the
public.

As you may know, I have written a long and well-documented
article on the history of the idea that Europa might have an
ocean. Over the years, many people have been misled by Richard
Hoagland to believe that he was the originator of that idea, as
well as the idea that life might develop in such an ocean.

It has given him a tremendous amount of undeserved credibility.

Since June of 1997, I have been trying very hard to correct this
distortion of history. I've informed a relatively small number
of people about my article. I would like to bring it to the
attention of as many people as possible. If I wrote a relatively
short piece pointing out how Hoagland has distorted this
history, would you consider providing a similar forum for that?

You can find my article on my homepage here:

http://www.math.washington.edu/~greenber/Europa.html

It will be obvious how much work I put into writing that
article. It is not intended to criticize Hoagland at all. I just
wanted to set the record straight.

But my fax to Art Bell, which you can find there, will give you
an idea of my futile attempt to get some honesty about this
issue onto his show.


--Ralph Greenberg

Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
Seattle, WA


   _____________

Fax To Art Bell Asking For Remedy


The following is the text of a fax sent to Art Bell on December
15th, 1997. A similar fax had been sent to him on December 4th,
1997 and also a few days later, all with the hope that he would
at least partially read one of them to his audience.

In February and March, 1998, I sent several other faxes to Art
Bell which were much shorter and which were mostly a copy of
part of a letter that I received from Arthur C. Clarke.

Art Bell has never shared any of these faxes with his audience.



Dear Art,

On December 4th, 1997, Richard Hoagland was a guest on your
show. I was very dismayed to hear him make the claim that he was
the first person to write a "scientific paper" proposing the
ideas that Europa might possibly have a global liquid water
ocean and that life might possibly develop in such an ocean.
This is a rather misleading and factually incorrect statement. I
feel that your audience deserves to hear an accurate version of
the history of those ideas and hope that you will share the
following brief summary with them.

In the 1950s, the astronomer G.P.Kuiper discovered evidence that
the surface of Europa and some of the other satellites of
Jupiter seemed to be covered with water in the form of ice or
frost. This was finally confirmed in the early 1970s. In an
article published in 1971, John S. Lewis proposed and studied
the possibility that Europa and other ice-covered bodies in our
solar system might actually have a liquid water ocean under a
crust of ice. This idea was explored in a number of articles by
various scientists during the 1970s.

One important one which appeared in 1976 by John S. Lewis and
G.J.Consolmagno gives rather detailed estimates of the possible
thickness of the ice crust and the possible depth of an ocean
that might exist on Europa and other moons of Jupiter. These
estimates are based on various sets of assumptions about the
early history and the composition of those bodies. For example,
in one of their models, they estimate that Europa might have an
ice crust 70-km thick covering an ocean of water 100-km deep,
all of this over a rocky core 1400-km in radius. The underlying
idea is that radioactive decay in the core might produce enough
heat to maintain a liquid water ocean.

In 1979, another idea was proposed which focused attention
specifically on Europa. Two NASA scientists--P. Cassen and
R.T.Reynolds--together with a physicist S.J.Peale from the
University of California wrote an article entitled "Is there
liquid water on Europa?" Their idea was that the gravitational
forces which Jupiter and Ganymede (another of Jupiter's moons)
exert on Europa might generate enough frictional heat to
maintain a liquid water ocean on Europa. Under one set of
reasonable assumptions, they estimate that Europa might have an
ice crust under 10-kms in thickness covering a liquid water
ocean with a depth of about 90-kms.

In 1979, there were two Voyager missions to the Jupiter system.
This article about Europa was written about one month before
Voyager 2 started sending back high resolution images of Europa
in July, 1979. At the end of their article, the authors
expressed hope that such images might provide some evidence, one
way or the other, concerning the existence of an ocean on
Europa. I think that there can be little doubt that this article
was widely discussed around NASA because these very same
scientists had published another article just a few days before
Voyager 1 passed by Io (another moon of Jupiter) in which they
made a very startling prediction that extensive volcanic
activity should exist on Io. Within a few weeks, the images from
Voyager 1 confirmed that their prediction about Io was correct.

The idea that a liquid water ocean under a thick crust of ice
might exist on Europa and some of the other moons of Jupiter
seems to have become rather widely known by the end of the
1970s. I have even found several books written for the general
public at the end of that decade which discuss that possibility.
To me, it seems quite obvious that the possibility of such an
ocean would lead many people to speculate about the existence of
life in such an environment. In fact, Carl Sagan had already
included Europa and Ganymede in a short list of bodies in our
solar system which he believed had some potential for the
existence of life. This was in an article he wrote in 1971. He
included Europa and Ganymede because of the evidence that they
might have water in the form of ice or frost on their surfaces.
The possibility of an ocean of water would certainly be far more
encouraging. However, one obvious and serious issue is the fact
that, under a thick crust of ice, photosynthesis would probably
be a very unlikely possibility. There would have to be an
alternative basis for the chemistry of life that could evolve in
such an environment.

I have found several cases where various individuals presented
such speculations to the general public or to the scientific
community. The first that I found was in Scotland. There is a
very active group of amateur and professional astronomers in
Scotland, called ASTRA, which sponsors public lectures and
discussions about all aspects of astronomy. In 1976, some of
their members proposed various ideas about how life might
develop on Europa and Ganymede . For example, they suggested
that complex molecules might be synthesized by electrical storms
in the thin atmospheres of these bodies, that such compounds
might seep down into liquid water reservoirs or oceans under the
surface, and that volcanic activity deep down might provide an
alternative energy source to light. These ideas are reported on
in a book written by Duncan Lunan, entitled New Worlds for Old,
published in 1979.

In a delightful book entitled Life Beyond Earth, Gerald Feinberg
and Robert Shapiro propose some general ideas about the
chemistries which could be a basis for life in unearth-like
environments. Feinberg presented some of these ideas in a
lecture that he gave at a conference Extraterrestials--Where Are
They? at the University of Maryland in November, 1979. In their
book the authors discuss Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto based on
the models proposed by Lewis and Consolmagno in 1976. They write
that if life is to develop in the putative oceans of such bodies
under a thick crust of ice, it is crucial that some energy
sources exist which can provide heat in concentrated form. They
mention the possibility of volcanic eruptions or upwellings of
hot gases from the core. They compare such environments to those
which were discovered in 1977 on Earth at places on the ocean
bottom where hot springs emerge providing sites which have an
abundance of living creatures. Their book, three years in the
writing, was published in 1980.

Another scientific conference occurred at NASA's Ames Research
Center in June, 1979, which was called Life in the Universe. The
exobiologist Ben Clark gave a lecture at that conference where
he also discussed the possibility of life developing in buried
liquid water reservoirs or oceans on Europa, Ganymede and some
other ice-covered bodies. Inspired by the 1977 discoveries of
small, isolated ecosystems near hot springs at ocean bottoms
here on Earth, he suggested that something similar might happen
on such bodies. But he pointed out that photosynthesis does in
fact play some role in these ecosystems on Earth. He proposed
some specific alternative chemistries, based on Sulfur, which
might provide a basis for life in the possible oceans of Europa
and other bodies without photosynthesis.

Finally I will mention the imaginative and inspiring article
written by your frequent guest Richard Hoagland. His article,
entitled "The Europa Enigma" appeared in the January, 1980 issue
of Star & Sky . In that article, Hoagland discusses the
possibility that an ocean might have existed and might still
exist under an icy crust, summarizing some of the scientific
articles that had appeared on this topic. He speculates about
how complex organic compounds might develop and that
undersurface volcanic activity might provide a possible energy
source for life to evolve. There are many interesting ideas in
that article. As many people in your audience might know,
Hoagland's article inspired Arthur C. Clarke to use Europa as a
background for his novel 2010: Odyssey 2.

I would like to quote one paragraph from a letter which I
received recently from Arthur C. Clarke concerning Hoagland's
article and the ideas that Europa might have an ocean and that
life might develop there. "I am also grateful to him [Dick
Hoagland] for the excellent 1980 article he wrote--my first
introduction to the idea. Since then I have become aware of the
fact that many others had thought of it first, as you point
out."

What I've written above is a summary of a much longer survey of
the history of these ideas about Europa which I wrote last May
and circulated among various scientists and journalists. I also
sent a copy to Arthur C. Clarke and to Richard Hoagland. I sent
a second copy to Hoagland in September. Perhaps you can
understand why I was quite disturbed by Hoagland's statement on
your show a few weeks ago. I would be very appreciative if you
could take the time to read what I've written.

Sincerely yours,
Ralph Greenberg

Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
Seattle, WA







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   Mar > Mar 6

                      Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 06:45:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 10:20:45 -0500
Subject: Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?


>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 15:36:18 -0500
>From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?
>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>,

>>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:39:59 -0500
>>From: Robert Moore <ENGIMA9@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?
>>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>,

>>SCHOOLBOY Alex Birch, blamed for hoaxing the world with a
>>sensational DIY flying saucer snap 37 years ago, now insists his
>>story was true.

><snip>

>>Sorry, I don't buy this at all! Alex Birches' photograph is a
>>hoax, pure and simple. It looks like it is - a fuzzy image of
>>'UFOs' painted onto a sheet of glass!

>Don't worry Robert - no one is falling for this story; I was
>simply posting this tale (which appears in the Yorkshire Post
>and various other tabloids today) as an example of how
>unscrupulous people are jumping on the UFO industry bandwagon.

<snip>

>This cautionary tale should teach us a few basic lessons:

>1) Hoaxers are not necessarily always in it for the money: they
>get satisifaction out of fooling people and making them believe
>in something which is not real, the more the better, and others
>"get off" on the fame and attention fake UFO stories bring them.

>2) Multi-witness sightings do not indicate genuine UFO
>sightings. Here there were three witnesses who successfully lied
>for ten years. One is still doing so.

>3) Kodak's top experts analysed the Birch photos in 1962 and
>pronounced them genuine.  The British MOD too were baffled
>and could only offer a shaky "ice crystals" explanation (I have the

>PRO file on the case). Need I say any more?

= = =

Dear David and Robert:

Thank you for a most interesting, enlightening and amusing
account of this affair!

It should make all of us us pause before we invest too much
credibility in any particular sighting report; most especially
those involving photographs.

Could you please give me the date and location of this
non-event, just in case I still list it in my personal
database?

If I do find it there, you may be assured that it will be dealt
with accordingly!

Obviously, I do not dismiss all UFO reports, or there would be
no such catalog here.

Very best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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   Mar > Mar 6

                          UFOs: 50 Years of Denial

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 07:31:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 14:01:02 -0500
Subject: UFOs: 50 Years of Denial


>From: Jim Green <hal@futuresouth.com>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UFOs: 50 Years of Denial
>Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 13:38:11 -0600

>I applaud TLC for their week-long airing of UFO material. Last
>night's program, '50 Year's of Denial', was one of the best of
>the week, with serious calls for an end of the secrecy and
>blatant disinformation that has been foisted upon the citizens
>of planet earth all these years.

>I also applaud SETI and SERENDIP for the work they're doing,
but >plead with scientists to investigate our own atmosphere for
what >we're being told that we really didn't see.

>If colonization is the ultimate alien plan, 50 years has been
>sufficient time to set it in motion. So, do we continue to
>believe the debunkers and government disinformation, or rise
up, >united, stop bickering amongst ourselves as ufologists, and
>demand to know the truth, good or bad, let the chips fall
>wherever they may. Come on People, get with the program!

Dear Jim:

I also applaud SETI, SERENDIP and anyone else who can help throw
some light on these matters.

I seriously doubt, however, that colonization (or anything like
it) is the 'ultimate alien plan'. If we assume that UFOs are
indeed the product of some distant alien race, then we have to
credit them (the ETs) with some astoundingly advanced technology
at the very least.

With all their advantages, if they wanted to "take over" in the
sense of some hostile invader, they would have done so long ago.

No. Somewhere in Yellowstone or Yosemite, there are
probably bears asking the same question: i.e.

" If humans are so smart, why haven't they taken over? "

" Heck .. they leave their food all over the place. I think they
are rather dense, really! "

I've suggested this before:

Maybe Earth, and all upon it, is/are simply an object of study
or scientific curiosity.

We could be something like a roadside tourist traps on old
Route 66 .. the ones with all the snakes or indian curios ..
with a handy gas station and a burger joint nearby.

Some ancient society could pick up clues about its long
forgotten past; simply by comparing and contrasting its own
history with our very manifest present!

All of this could be accomplished without sending a single grey
( let alone green ) living being anywhere near this forlorn part
of the galaxy.

They could send cybernetic "entities" with logical and perceptive
abilities far far above those of humans.  They could have been
sent millions of years ago by some living race with a much longer
attention span than we possess.

IF this wild speculation of mine has any validity at all, I
doubt such beings would have any interest in pillage or plunder.
Instead, I would huge amounts of information to be transmitted
back to their place of origin. Once in a long while, their
(alien) activities might be seen, and reported, as UFOs.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

PS: Some advice from an old, grey, laboratory rat:

" Never let an experiment succeed. They stop feeding you. "





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   Mar > Mar 6

             Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic Sensitivity

From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:37:06 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 14:34:57 -0500
Subject: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic Sensitivity


It has long been thought that some UFOs radiate electromagnetic
energy strong enough to shut off vehicle engines and to leave
burn marks on the individuals who encounter them.

Albert Budden has investigated the ElectroMagnetic Hypothesis
[EMH] more thoroughly than anyone I'm aware of. One thrust of
his work is to show that exposure to EM fields can have a wider
range of objective and subjective effects than has previously
been thought.

He writes that, among those with Electromagnetic
Hypersensitivity,
exposure to EMFs


   ... could translate into the utterly bizarre consciousness
effects of alien abductions, out-of-body experiences (OBEs),
ghostly visitations and the physical phenomena of 'hauntings',
poltergeists and UFOs.

   [Budden, Albert. (1998). _Electric UFOs_. at 12.]


Although I think that Budden is too quick to dismiss these
anomalous experiences as hallucinations now that he has found a
causal connection to an objectively detectable phenomenon, his
findings do (IMHO) show that the ElectroMagnetic Hypothesis is a
more plausible explanation than the ExtraTerrestrial Hypothesis
for this class of UFO/aerial phenomena.

Budden naturally urges UFO/Abduction investigators to gather
evidence that would either implicate the EMH or rule it out in
any particular case. To help investigators standardize their
approach, Budden distills his approach into a series of
questions to ask experiencers.

They are:

1. Do you frequently get severe shocks from door handles, are
bodywork or other surfaces?

2. Do you feel uncomfortable in synthetic materials (e.g.
acrylic, nylon)?

3. Are you sensitive to perfumed products, aerosols, cigarette
smoke, petrol, (household) gas, make-up, aftershave, etc.?

4. Does electrical equipment go wrong or behave oddly in you
presence?

5. Are there any foods/drinks that you either avoid or consume
large amounts of? Do you have food allergies (e.g. chocolate,
coffee, milk, food with artificial colouring of flavours, wheat
products)?

6. Did you have a happy childhood? If no, give reason(s)
briefly.

7. Do you ever have hairs on your body stand on end, feel
suddenly cold or overheated, experience tingling or numbness?

8. Do you ever get a metallic taste in your mouth?

9. Do you get deja vu strongly and often?

10. Do you ever get the overwhelming sensation that someone is
in the room with you, watching, although you cannot see anyone?

11. Are you very sensitive to light? (Sunlight? Flickering
light? Do you ever wear tinted glasses?

12. Are you sensitive to medications (especially antibiotics)?

13. Do you have what could be called psychic experiences (e.g.
ghostly encounters, OBEs, etc.)?

14. Do you find that objects in your home go missing or
sometimes seem to behave oddly in any way?

15. Do light-bulbs seem to last for a very short period of time
in your home?

16. Have you ever been close to a lightning strike or suffered
major electrocution? (Or defibrillation? Or electroconvulsive
therapy/ECT)?

17. Do you ever see small lights darting about the room?

18. Does fluorescent light bother you at all?

19. Do you ever have periods where you lose all concentration,
feel overheated, see light flashes, lose muscle power in your
legs and feel tingly and heavy?

20. Are there any of the following features near your home: a
quarry, radio mast, power lines, reservoir, hill, military base,
TV/radio station, ham radio?

21. Does time ever seem to slow down or pass in a flash?

22. Have you ever had periods of time for which you cannot
account?

23. As an activity, do you write very much?

24. Have you ever had the experience of everything going wery
still, timeless and silent?

25. Do you ever get painful electrical rippling sensations under
the skin?


Oddly enough, Budden does not ask, "Have you ever found yourself
lying fully conscious or in a dreamlike state, unable to move or
cry out, while experiencing auditory or visual phenomena, or
total blackness?"

A positive response to this question might indicate an ASP
[Awareness during Sleep Paralysis] event. Since Budden does
indicate that individuals with EH [Electromagnetic
Hypersensitivity] "experience transient periods of immobility,
frequently although not exclusively on awakening", investigating
the connection between EH and ASP would seem worthwhile.


{*}.{*}:{*}^{*}:{*}.{*}.{*}:{*}^{*}:{*}.{*}

Joseph Polanik, jpolanik@mindspring.com
Trionic Research Institute, http://www.trionica.com





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 6

               Re: Swissair Liner's CE With 'UFO' Off NYC '97

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 12:53:34 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 15:14:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Swissair Liner's CE With 'UFO' Off NYC '97


>Date:  Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:40:48 +0100
>From:  Gerhard Eickenhorst <ehs@datacomm.ch>
>To:  UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject:  Re:  Swissair Liner's CE With 'UFO' Off NYC '97

>>From:  Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
>>Date:  Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:16:25 EST
>>To:  Updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject:  Swissair Liner's CE With 'UFO' Off NYC '97

>>Swissair-UFO, 1st Writethru

>>http://www.cbcnews.cbc.ca:80/news/cp/world/990304/w030450.html

>>STEPHEN THORNE

>>OTTAWA (CP) - A Swissair pilot reported his 737 jet was nearly
>>hit by an unidentified flying object, possibly a missile, near
>>the area off New York where a TWA airplane crashed in 1996, The
>>Canadian Press has learned.

>Hello from Switzerland,

>Swissair has or never had 737 planes. As a formal Swissair
>technician I think I should tell you. I think Stephen Thorne was
>thinking of a 747.

>>Swissair Flight 127 was cruising at 23,000 feet on Aug. 9, 1997,
>>when the pilot interrupted an address to passengers to report
>>the near miss by a round white object, says a report by the U.S.
>>National Transportation Safety Board.
>
>Cheers,
>Gerhard

Gerhard is right. The aircraft in question was a 747-300. This
incident was looked into a couple of years ago by many on the
List. Below is a tower transcript supplied in its entirety, at
the time, by Bill Weitzel. Following that is the FAA's
explanation of the event as forwarded by Kenny Young at the
time. Sorry for the length.

Don Ledger

*************

This portion of the re-recording concerns communications at the
Danbury Center, Sector #20, Radar Associate Position, during the
time period 2102 C.U.T., to 2119 C.U.T., on August 9th, 1997.

C:  --- 35 20 contact Boston Center 1 3 3 point 4 2
P:  1 3 3 4 2 ...  35 20
C:  Air Shuttle 52 95, contact Boston Center 1 3 3 point 4 2
P:  3 4 2
P:  Good afternoon, Boston Center, Eagle Flight 934 1 3 ...
C:  Eagle Flight 934, Boston Center ...  altimeter is 3 0 1 1
    ...  acknowledge
P:  Acknowledge 934 thanks
P:  Eagle Flight 935 ...  1 7 17
C:  Eagle Flight 935 Boston Center climber maintain ...  2 1 0
P:  2 1 0 Eagle Flight 935
P:  Boston Blue Ridge 521 leaving 14,500 for 1 2000
C:  Blue Ridge 521 Boston Center ...  7 0 3 0 1 1
P:  3 0 1 1 Blue Ridge, uh, 521
C:  Eagle Flight 935 contact Boston Center 1 2 5 point 5 7
P:  25 57 Eagle Flight 935
P:  Afternoon, Boston, Delta 1840 ...  14 5, for 1 7000
C:  Delta 1840 Boston Center ...  maintain ...  2 1 0 ... direct
    Providence westward unchanged.
P:  2 1 0 direct Providence and thank you, Delta 1840
    (4 phone tones, rings once, pause, same 4 tones, ring)
C:  Maintain 1 1000
P:  (faint voice) ...  1 1000 ...
P:  Boston, good afternoon, Swissair 127 heading(?) 2 3 0
C:  Swissair 127 heading(?), Boston Center, good afternoon, this
    verify you have the ...  2 arrivals, Boston
P:  ...
C:  Roger
C:  Blue Ridge 521 contact Bradley approach 1 2 5 point 8
P:  2 5 8 approach 521
P:  ...  Center, is Swissair 127
C:  Swissair 127, go ahead
P:  Uh, yes sir, I don't know what it was, but, it was-- it, it
    just overflew, like, like a couple of hundred feet above us,
    /(another voice)/ I don't know if it was a rocket or
    whatever, but incredibly fast, uh, opposite direction.
C:  In the opposite direction?
P:  Yes sir, and the time was, was-- 2107.  It was, it was too
    fast to be an aeroplane.
C:  OK. Thank you.
V2: Danbury Con...  31
    (beep)
V2: Danbury--
V3: Uh, hi there, USAir 8900, uh, 300 knots greater assign,
    Northwest 550 not to exceed 300 knots.
V2: OK
    (2 voices) normal speed
    (beep)
C:  USAir 986 Boston Center ...  maintain flight over 1 8 0
P:  ...  1 8 0, yes sir, 986
C:  USAir 986, you see anything, uh, like a missile in your
    area, perhaps off to your right?
P:  Take a good look, but I don't think, if it's goin' that
    fast, I probably won't get a chance.  We just saw Swissair
    go by a moment ago.
C:  OK.  Thanks.  Eagle Flight 934, contact Boston Center 1 3 3
    point 4 2.
P:  33 42, we'll see ya 934
P:  And, uh, Swissair 127, we had no T-CAS warning, it was, it
    was way too fast, I guess.
C:  Swiss 127, thank you.
P:  ...  (overlap)
    (beep)
V1: Kennedy, uh, Danbury 30
V2: Yes
V1: Hey, d'you see now that Swissair, about, uh, 2-1/2 minutes
    ago, said, uh, somethin' like a rocket or somethin' went
    over, a couple hundred feet over him, opposite direction,
    goin' too fast to be a plane.
V2: Whoa!  Alrighty!
V3: How far above him was it?
V2: OK!
V1: Wonder how much, I--
V1: He said 2, 3, 400 feet above him, was the thing.
    (beep)
P:  Yeah, all I can tell, uh, 127, is that the three of us saw
    a, a white, uh, object, uh, it was white, and very fast.
C:  Swissair 127, thank you.
C:  Delta 1840 contact Boston Center 1 3 3 point 4 2.
P:  33 42, Delta 1840.
C:  USAir 986 turn left heading 0 2 0 joining victor 487 north
    of Bridgeport.
P:  USAir ...  join up ...  victor 487 ...  USAir 986.
C:  Swissair 127 clear direct Providence west route unchanged
P:  (muffled) Providence...  Swissair 127
C:  Swissair 127, reduce speed to 3 0 0, now, uh, next sector's
    request.
P:  OK, seems like, 300 with uh, 127.
C:  Swissair 127, contact Boston Center 1 3 3 point 4 2.
P:  3 3 42, have a good night.
C:  Thanks
P:  (muffled)
C:  That's 2 at once....  USAir 8900,..  2 4 0
P:  USAir 8900
C:  USAir 8900, Boston Center, roger, who else called?
P:  And, Northwest 550 at, uh, 2 4 0.
C:  Northwest 550, Boston Center, roger.
C:  Northwest 550, did you see anything, uh, similar to a
    missile, or a UFO, /another voice/ uh, in your vicinity?
    Maybe, uh, about 3 minutes ago?

P:  I was just getting ready to ask you if you heard that
    report, uh, we haven't seen anything.  Northwest 550.
C:  OK.  USAir 8900, er, you didn't see anything either?
P:  We saw nothing.  8900.
C:  OK.

----- (There's no more about the object on the tape. --WBW)

Subject: NTSB Report on SWISS-AIR incident from Aug. 9, 97
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:13:29 -0800
From: Kenny Young <task@FUSE.NET>
To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM


This is the NTSB report on the August 9, 1997 Swiss-Air incident
in which the pilots reported a suspected UFO.  This report was
just recently posted on the NTSB Aviation Accident statistics
web page.

----------------------------------------------------------------

NTSB Identification:  NYC97SA193. The docket is stored in the
(offline) NTSB Imaging System.

Scheduled 14 CFR 129 operation of SWISSAIR TRANSPORT CO. LTD
(D.B.A. SWISSAIR)

Incident occurred AUG-09-97 at NEW YORK, NY
Aircraft: Boeing 747-300, registration:  HBIGF
Injuries: 3 Uninjured.

On August 9, 1997, about 1707 eastern daylight time, the flight
crew of a Boeing 747-300, Swiss registration HB-IGF, and
operated by Swissair as flight 127, reported an unusual sighting
while in cruise flight at 23,000 feet (FL230) over New York, New
York.

The airplane was not damaged, and there were no injuries to the
occupants. Flight 127 which had departed from Philadelphia
International Airport, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, was conducted
under 14 CFR Part 129, and was operated in visual meteorological
conditions on an instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan.
Flight 127 was en-route to Boston, Massachusetts when the
sighting was made.

According to a report from a Safety Board Air Traffic Control
investigator:

"Swiss Air 127 was in contact with the Danbury Sector of the
Boston ARTCC at Flight Level 230. Voice communications with
Swiss Air 127 were of a routine nature until 2107 UTC, when the
flight transmitted, '...sir, I don't know what it was, but it
just over flew like a couple of hundred feet above us. I don't
know if it was a rocket or whatever, but incredibly fast,
opposite direction.'

The controller asked, 'In the opposite direction?' Swiss Air 127
replied, 'yes sir, and the time was 2107, it was too fast to be
an airplane.'

The controller then asked another flight, Eastern 986 if they
saw anything like a missile in the area, 'perhaps off your
right.'

They replied that they would take a good look, but 'didn't think
that if it's going that fast they probably won't get a chance.
They had just seen Swiss Air go by a little bit ago.' "

"Swiss Air 127 then reported that they had no warning, & that
the object was going way too fast. The controller then asked how
far above Swiss Air 127 it was. Swiss Air 127 replied, 'it was
right over us, right above, opposite direction, and, and I don't
know, 2,3,4 hundred feet above. All that I can tell, 127, is
that the three of us saw a light object, it was white, and very
fast.'"

"The flight was then cleared direct to Providence, and told to
reduce speed to 300 knots before contacting the next sector."

Interviews were conducted with the captain and first officer on
August 10, 1997. The flight engineer had not observed the object
and was not interviewed. The captain reported:

The flight was abeam of John F. Kennedy Airport, Jamaica, New
York, at 2106, and proceeding direct to RAALF intersection when
the event occurred.

The captain was making a public address to the passengers in the
cabin when he looked ahead and saw a white object.

He saw it for less than a second, and the only movement he could
discern was opposite his flight track. He did not observe any
wings, and was not sure it was an aircraft. He thought it was
cylindrical in shape. He had never been so close to other
traffic before. He was not certain whether it was stationary or
was moving opposite of the flight. It passed over the cockpit,
slightly right of centerline. If it had been any lower, it would
have hit the aircraft.

As the object passed by, there was no noise, no wake turbulence,
and no disruption or anomalies with any of the flight or engine
instruments.

At the time of the event, the airplane was flying on a heading
of 060 degrees, at 340 KIAS, at FL230. It was clear with cumulus
nimbus clouds to the west. The sun was behind them. There was no
TCAS warning.

In addition, there was no exhaust or smoke, no fire, and he
could not accurately discern its size. The captain reported his
total time as 15,000 + flight hours. He had never seen a missile
in flight.

The first officer reported:  The flight was cruising at FL230.
The captain was making a PA to the cabin. The first officer was
putting on his headset, and bent over to adjust the volume. As
he looked up he saw the object. It passed overhead very quickly.
It was close enough that he ducked his head because he thought
it would hit them He said it was white and had a round shape.
There was no smoke or fire visible from the object.

He thought it passed about 100 to 200 feet above the airplane
and between the right side of the fuselage and the number 3
engine.

There was no drift, and it appeared to be flying exactly
opposite of the aircraft. No actual movement was discerned, and
no markings were visible.

The object appeared to be the size of a thumbnail held at an
arms length. The engine indications were steady, and the
visibility was unlimited. The sun was behind the airplane.

The first officer reported that he had previously encountered a
weather balloon over Italy, and the object did not look like the
balloon.

The first officer reported his total time as 7,500 hours, all
civil. He has seen missile shoots from the ground.

A check with a Safety Board meteorologist revealed the
following:

WEATHER BALLOONS

* Weather balloons are launched twice a day.

* The normal times are 1100 UTC, and 2300 UTC. plus or minus 15
  minutes.

* The time to reach 23,000 feet is normally about 25 to 28
  minutes. Sounding balloons are light tan or brownish in color.

* PIBAL (used for wind observations) and Ceiling Balloons are
  black and red in color.

* The closest launch point to the JFK was Upton, New York, about
  43 NM east of JFK on a bearing of 085 magnetic.

A check of winds aloft data from Upton, New York, revealed the
following:

Date Time Altitude Velocity Direction Temperature 9 Aug 12Z 500
MB 35 kts 350 degrees -14 C 10 Aug 12Z 500 MB 15 kts 360 degrees
-12 C 9 Aug 00Z 400 MB 20 kts 330 degrees -22 C 10 Aug 00Z 400
MB 20 kts 330 degrees -22 C Radar data was supplied by the
Boston Air Traffic Control Center (ARTCC), in the NTAP format.

The data contained both secondary targets (beacon), and primary
targets (non-beacon).

The data was plotted and Swissiar Flight 127 was identified.

There was no evidence of an opposite direction target, either
beacon or non-beacon.

--
UFO Research





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 6

                           Re: UFO Sighting Sites

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 15:11:52 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 19:23:32 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Sighting Sites


>Subject: Re: UFO Sighting Sites
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:53:56 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<snip>

>"Painstaking research"? Doesn't seem that way, so far.

Thanks for your comments. I agree, in general, however, I
wasn't seeking comments on the information itself. I just
wanted to know if anyone had heard of Mr. Tery. I have never
run across his name in Ufology before. This was the first time
I had seen anyone try to correlate graviational anomalies of the
earth with UFO sightings.

The quote results from discussions on a listserver regarding
gravitomagnetic and torsion fields. A torsion field results from
a rotating mass. The listserver is VortexC and we have several
Russian scientists posting there. They are claiming that torsion
fields are the method of propulsion used by UFOs. They also make
claims that these fields are implicated in ESP, pyramid effects,
and possibly a superluminal method of communicating. They claim
that information can be transmitted by a torsion field at a
speed with a lower bound of 10E9 (one billion, American) times
the speed of light.

Supporting experiments include one in Japan where the fall rate
of spinning gyroscopes varied with the rate and direction of
spin. Other claims include a resistance variation of a length of
tungsten as it is passed near a source of a torsion field, eg an
pyramid. The pyramid seems to focus those fields generated by
the earth.

One researcher, Dr. Shipov, is alleged to have a complete theory
on this; but, alas, it is written in Russian. The really
interesting thing is that, from what I have seen so far, it is
possible that this theory can explain the gravitational
anomalies reported by Podkletnov, Schnurer, Li, et.al. that
allegedly appear above a rotating superconducting disk.

I would like to contact Mr. Tery if anyone knows how to reach
him.

Regards,
Terry

PS Torsion energy is very likely related to Orgone energy, if it





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   Mar > Mar 6

                        Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 99 12:50:40 PST
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 19:20:32 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'


>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 00:03:53 -0500
>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>[List Only]

>The review is copyrighted by the NY Times.

>Listophiles,

>Whenever the NY Times newspaper prints something I agree with
>its the greatest newspaper in the world.  This week they have
>been living up to every expectation.  Check out this review of
>Alex Heard's new book, a book praised to the skies by Jerome
>Clark, Larry Hatch and Jim Mortellaro during the recent thread
>of discussion on UFO Update entitled "Apocalypse Pretty Soon".

>I went to this authors website and perused the  material there
>and was not impressed and neither was the NY Times as the review
>below will demonstrate beyond the shadow of a doubt.


Patient and gentle listfolk:

Again, Gary Alevy's curious views -- we all recall his amusing
effort to convict Allen Hynek of being a sinister agent on the
basis of evidence invisible to the rest of humanity -- cause the
head to shake and the mind to wonder at the varieties of human,
or more precisely Alevyian, silliness.

We are informed that I have "praised to the skies" a book I have
never read or even seen.  (I'm betting that my partners-in-crime
Larry Hatch and Jim Mortellaro haven't read or seen it either,
much less dispatched hosannas heavenward.)  We are also asked to
believe that a single review by a single reviewer is absolutely
the last word on the book in question, establishing its
worthlessness "beyond the shadow of a doubt."  I think we can
safely infer that Mr. Alevy doesn't read many book reviews,
whose judgments -- as those of us who do read reviews regularly
(or have written books that were the subject of them) are well
aware -- are widely various.  As often as not, a review tells us
as much about the reviewer as the reviewed.  (As a current
example, witness the radically disparate reviewer responses to
Wendy Shalit's recent

book on female sexual modesty.)  We may safely anticipate that
Alex Heard's book, like any book, will generate positive reviews
as well as negative and mixed ones.

Moreover, as those of us who know our literary history are
aware, all sorts of titles that went on to become enduring
classics were poorly received at the time of their publication.
Perhaps the most notorious example is Melville's Moby-Dick,
first published in 1851 to tepid or hostile reviews, soon after
forgotten, only to be revived in the next century, to be
recognized as one of the unarguably great American novels --
some critics think  _the_ greatest -- of the past 150 years.

Now, I'm not comparing Apocalypse Pretty Soon to Moby-Dick, but
I am drawing on the common sense -- and sense of proportion --
so conspicuously absent in Alevyian discourse.  All I know is
that I have read many Alex Heard magazine pieces.  I think they
are excellent.  I also like his humor, his compassion, and his
reporter's eye.  I look forward to reading his book and making
my own judgment on it. Of course if Gary prefers to have others
do his thinking for him, that is his right, even if it makes me
feel a little sorry for the dude.

Jerry Clark






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   Mar > Mar 6

                 Re: Interview with Gordon Creighton of FSR

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 99 16:15:30 PST
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 19:52:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Interview with Gordon Creighton of FSR


>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 03:46:31 -0500
>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Interview with Gordon Creighton

>Interview with:

>Gordon Creighton
>Editor of Flying Saucer Review


>"We know about Prince Phillip's interest, and when he visited
>The States, he was interviewed, by McAll's [sic; McCall's]
>magazine, about  flying saucers. He said 'Yes I believe it' and
>referenced a book by Adamski entitled "Flying Saucers of London."

Is Flying Saucers of London how Flying Saucers Have Landed
sounds filtered through a British accent?  Further evidence of
how a common language divides us.

Jerry Clark





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   Mar > Mar 6

                 Re: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 16:48:48 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 20:00:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic


>From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:37:06 -0500 (EST)
>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic Sensitivity

>It has long been thought that some UFOs radiate electromagnetic
>energy strong enough to shut off vehicle engines and to leave
>burn marks on the individuals who encounter them.

>Albert Budden has investigated the ElectroMagnetic Hypothesis
>[EMH] more thoroughly than anyone I'm aware of. One thrust of
>his work is to show that exposure to EM fields can have a wider
>range of objective and subjective effects than has previously
>been thought.


Joseph,

I think you need to do a serious web (or other) search for the
works of one Michael Persinger of Laurentian University in
Sudbury, Ontario. He proposed and pioneered this area of
research many years before anyone had ever heard of Albert
Budden. I first met Persinger in 1982, when he gave a talk to
the annual MUFON conference, held that year in Toronto. I
published an interview with Persinger shortly thereafter in
Fortean Times, and later wrote an article based on his research
(and a follow-up interview) for Omni magazine. Persinger's own
"Space-Time Transients and Unusual Events" (co-authored with
Gyslaine F. Lafreniere) was published in this country by
Nelson-Hall in 1977.

This is not to denigrate Budden and his work in any fashion. In
fact, I support his questionnaire and its use. But for the
record (and whether rightly or wrongly), Budden is following
Persinger's footsteps. To the best of my knowledge, Persinger
continues to contribute to scientific, peer-reviewed journals.
Does Budden?

Dennis Stacy
http://www.anomalist.com





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   Mar > Mar 6

                 Re: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 16:48:48 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 20:01:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic


>From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:37:06 -0500 (EST)
>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic Sensitivity

>It has long been thought that some UFOs radiate electromagnetic
>energy strong enough to shut off vehicle engines and to leave
>burn marks on the individuals who encounter them.

>Albert Budden has investigated the ElectroMagnetic Hypothesis
>[EMH] more thoroughly than anyone I'm aware of. One thrust of
>his work is to show that exposure to EM fields can have a wider
>range of objective and subjective effects than has previously
>been thought.


Joseph,

I think you need to do a serious web (or other) search for the
works of one Michael Persinger of Laurentian University in
Sudbury, Ontario. He proposed and pioneered this area of
research many years before anyone had ever heard of Albert
Budden. I first met Persinger in 1982, when he gave a talk to
the annual MUFON conference, held that year in Toronto. I
published an interview with Persinger shortly thereafter in
Fortean Times, and later wrote an article based on his research
(and a follow-up interview) for Omni magazine. Persinger's own
"Space-Time Transients and Unusual Events" (co-authored with
Gyslaine F. Lafreniere) was published in this country by
Nelson-Hall in 1977.

This is not to denigrate Budden and his work in any fashion. In
fact, I support his questionnaire and its use. But for the
record (and whether rightly or wrongly), Budden is following
Persinger's footsteps. To the best of my knowledge, Persinger
continues to contribute to scientific, peer-reviewed journals.
Does Budden?

Dennis Stacy





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 6

                             Re: Here Be Dragons

From: Daev Walsh - Blather <Daev@Blather.Net>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 20:42:27 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 20:09:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons

______________________________________________________
B  L  A  T  H  E  R

p a r a n o r m a l   p r o v o c a t e u r i s m

By Dave (daev) Walsh daev@blather.net
Web: http://www.blather.net
_______________________________________________________
March 6th 1999, Dublin, Ireland   Vol 2. No. 38
_______________________________________________________

On the occasion of the last Vernal Equinox of the Millennium
Quaternity presents:
The first Transmute Conference

*Who's Running This Show Anyway...!?
A Multi-Paradigm Exploration*

At the Guildhall, Salisbury, Wiltshire, England
March 19-21 1999

Robert Anton Wilson; Dr John Mack (and "Experiencer")
Alan F. Alford; Michael Baigent; Lindsay Clarke;
Neil Freer; Charles Ginenthal; Patrick Harpur;
Rob Irving; Richard Leigh; David Marsh;
Lynn Picknett; Clive Prince; Michael Poynder;
Peter Tompkins; Steve Wilson; Roger Woolger
and KEN CAMPBELL!

Three Day Tickets: =A399

Concessions: =A350 (With UB40, Student Card etc.)

One-day tickets now available too!

More details at http://www.transmute.co.uk/
______________________________________________________

At last, another issue of Blather - issues have been far and few
between recently, for a plethora of reasons, including problems
with Best Internet's mailing list server, excursions to
Edinburgh, and a nasty flu contracted by the Chief Blatherskite
himself. Things *should* be back to normal, but we do forsee
shifting both website and mailing list to an Irish server - stay
tuned. This week though, we welcome back Our Man in London,
Agent Mark Pilkington, who tells us of recent encounters with
the enigmatic David Icke (http://davidicke.com/).

On Thursday last, Scotland ahd its biggest earthquake in over
100 years, with its epicentre around 3 miles (4.8k) from the
Isle of Arran. On Friday, *The Express* newspaper made mention
of how Icke had predicted (some years ago) that Arran would sink
during 1999.

Dave (daev) Walsh
March 6th 1998
_____________________________________________________________________


Here Be Dragons
(and that way lies madness)

Anyone who caught David Icke's media appearances in the wake of
the Glen Hoddle affair, or read his press release ("the meaning
of life has been highjacked (sic) for centuries by mainstream
religion") might have thought that the
ex-goalkeeper-formerly-known-as-the-Son-of-God had regained some
semblance of normality. They could never understand how wrong
they would be...

On 15th February Icke addressed a standing-room only crowd of
about 600 at London's Conway Hall. Young and old, straights and
heads, virtually every one of them appeared to be there in good
faith. Spotting an empty seat near the front, I sat down next to
a studious looking guy in his early twenties, pen and notebook
in hand. Ah good, I thought, a fellow hack; "Are you familiar
with Icke's material then?" He certainly was - an avid follower
since Icke's days as emissary for the purple vibration, he was
stunned by his new role as arch-nemesis of the New World Order:
"I can't believe I'm living on a planet where all this stuff is
going on," he told me. I know what he means.

After an agonising, interminable blast of hideous American
ballad-rock (Faith of the Heart - the lyrics were projected onto
a screen to aid our appreciation), Icke appears to a hero's
welcome. Dressed in black and purple and brandishing a gold
laser-pointer, he smiles and smoothes his burgeoning duck-tail
hairdo before beginning. Over the last two years he's toured 20
countries, and everywhere, he tells us, "there's an awakening
going on. People's minds are opening. After thousands of years
we're going to see the human race free." After this rousing
build-up he thaws the awed audience's icy glaze with some
(admittedly pretty funny) bible-referencing Clinton jokes. Then
it's back to the rabble-rousing. "We've out-sheeped the sheep;
we've dispensed with the sheep dog. We police each other. It's
become a crime to be different, to walk away from the herd and
say "I am me, I am free." "Yeah, right" cries a woman from
behind the row me. It's a long way to the exit.

We're all "surrounded by the eggshell of programmed thought and
response - the self-imposed barrier to our infinity." It's time
to break out and shine, sunny side up. Mind control, free
energy, cancer cures, weather control - all these things exist
and all are kept from us by the hand that feeds us, while they
tighten the chains around our necks. These are the
well-manicured mitts of the hidden elite, the eyes at the top of
the pyramid, Them.

We'd better start at the beginning. Cast your mind back to the
dawn of civilisation, 7 or 8000 years ago (that's what he says).
The great palaces of Phoenicia, Sumer and Babylon; times of
majesty, sun worship and child sacrifice. You may think we've
come a long way since then, but little has changed. Even today,
jewel-encrusted daggers silence innocent young lives as
forked-tongues hiss excitedly in the darkness all around. Global
power is, and always has been, contained within a very limited
gene-pool. European royalty, American presidents, financiers,
military leaders, they can all be traced back to the same
source. Welcome back the Nephilim. These giants amongst men have
been getting a fair bit of exposure lately, most notably via
Andy Collins' >From the Ashes of Angels. He considers them the
advanced, lost civilisation of ten thousand years back,
identified by some as Atlanteans. But Icke knows better. The
mighty Nephilim, were in fact a race of hybrids created by our
true masters, the inspiration for a thousand gods worldwide - a
species of hyper-intelligent reptilian extraterrestrials. This,
then, is the Biggest Secret of Icke's new 500-page epic. Diana
knew it - and that was why she had to die. "They're not human,"
she's quoted as telling a friend of the royal family, "they're
all reptiles, lizards".

So that's the punchline. The rest is in the details, and there
are plenty of them. As the man himself says: "Everything fits
together with everything else if you go for long enough." For
example, mark the solstices and equinoxes on a circle
symbolising the sun - what you have now is the key, the true
mark of the beast - "the sun on a cross", geddit? Look at NATO's
logo, the CIA, the freemasons. The signs are everywhere, we just
need the eyes to see. Listening to Icke, you get the feeling
that he believes more or less everything he's told, sees, hears
and reads. Or perhaps he just thinks his audiences do. Take this
anecdote for example; Icke describes being contacted by a CIA
operative - anonymous of course - who had some terrifying
information for him. On discovering some of the terrible things
being done to US citizens in the name of national security, this
agent had begun to challenge his superiors and ask why, oh why,
things have to be this way. Soon after he underwent an episode
of missing time, awaking to find a sachet of yellow liquid
surgically attached to his chest. This he showed to Icke. It
contained, he said, a drug that had to be replaced every 72
hours, or the agent would die. Get those Soya sauce sachets
ready for Icke's next appearance kids!

Consider also some of Icke's sources; most of his material
appears to be cobbled together from others' work in a frenzy of
paranoiac connectivity. Kathy O'Brien's Trance Formation of
America clearly made quite an impression. Described by Icke as
"biography", it tells the tale of O'Brien, a survivor of Project
Monarch, a mind control spin-off of MKULTRA, whereby innocent
Americans are brainwashed into use as sex slaves and assassins
for the power-crazed reptilian elite. Amongst other fanciful
atrocities, O'Brien saw George Bush return to his true reptilian
form at the height of a child sacrifice. They just can't help
themselves when they get excited. Wouldn't Monica Lewinsky have
something to say about this? It was his dealings with O'Brien
that convinced researcher Martin Cannon to abandon in despair
his popular "Controllers" hypothesis, which proposed that alien
abductions were a cover story for government mind control
experimentation. "When you get into mind control," says Icke,
"many things become possible that previously weren't."

The intense, cramp-inducing rants of Bill Cooper is another
clear - though unspoken - reference point, fanning the flames in
the war against the Illuminati-run United Nations, Trilateral
Commission, Bildergerger Group et al. The Holy Blood and The
Holy Grail, the monster-seller which traces the living bloodline
of Jesus Christ, also gets a look in. Conspiracy theories are
all about connections, and connections don't run any deeper than
blood. Icke personally claims to have traced the genetic
heritage of the US presidents, finding that they all came from
the same reptilian gene-pool. Sharpening his compass points,
Icke also steers us around that other old chestnut, sacred
geometry, finding owls and pentagrams littering the street maps
of London, Paris and Washington DC. I guess this is what's meant
by confusing the map with the territory. Owls, along, naturally,
with serpents and dragons, are a favourite symbol of the
reptilians. This is perhaps surprising given that birds of prey
tend to make easy meat out of snakes and lizards, but never
mind. Maybe the child sacrifices keep those owls at bay, eh? One
spectacular photo displayed by Icke shows robed figures standing
around a blazing fire in front of what appears to be a 40ft
statue of an owl. This was allegedly taken at Bohemia Grove in
California - a favoured get-away for world political and
financial leaders - in the midst of a ritual child-sacrifice.
Another photo, allegedly taken at Bohemia Grove in 1957 shows
then B-movie-star Ronald Reagan enjoying a tipple with
vice-president Richard Nixon, alongside Manhattan Project member
and Nobel Prize-winning chemist Glenn Seaborg. You do have to
wonder sometimes, but remember David, the owls are not what they
seem.

And so it goes on. And on. And on. Whatever you might say about
Icke, he's a phenomenal speaker, a human whirlwind sucking up
information, twisting it round, forming new connections and
spitting it out again in a smorgasbord of reconstituted belief.
It's the nature of conspiracy theories, especially those as vast
and all-encompassing as Icke's, that they will hit on occasional
truths in the course of their meanderings. Yes, too much global
power is in the hands of a handful of corporations and
politicians. Yes, these same names do crop up again and again in
world matters. No, this probably isn't an ideal state of
affairs, especially for those at the bottom of Icke's
marketing-seminar-style pyramid charts. But what does any of
this have to do with ancient religions, child sacrifice and
reptilian hybrids? Icke certainly gives the impression that he
believes what he's saying, but much of the talk, even the
humour, is clearly geared towards an American audience, and
there are a lot of auditoriums to fill over there. Anyway, in
some respects the question of belief is unimportant - stare too
long at the sun and you'll ultimately go blind.

After three hours of non-stop expurgation, Icke announces that
it's time for a tea break, after which he'll reveal how we can
free ourselves from the invisible chains of global slavery. It's
been an exhausting, and sometimes exhilarating session, but for
myself and a fellow non-believer it was enough. Lead firmly by
the reptilian hind-brain, we headed to the nearest pub for last
orders, the scales once again closing over our third eyes.

Thanks to Danny O'Sullivan and Andrew Chapman.


When he's not playing Zelda 64, Mark Pilkington maintains Magonia
Online http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk
and is a contributing editor to Fortean Times magazine.
He can be contacted at m.pilkington@virgin.net
______________________________________________________
FATE Magazine: True Reports of the Strange and Unknown
Reporting on UFOs, psychic phenomena, ghosts and hauntings,
mystery animals, and other mystical experiences since 1948.
To subscribe, call 1-800-728-2730 (U.S.) or visit
http://www.fatemag.com
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While Blather will always remain free to the subscriber, we're
always willing to talk to interested parties with regard to
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Contact: daev@blather.net

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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 6

                              Filer's Files #9

From: George Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:31:10 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 20:35:00 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #9


Filer's Files #9-1999,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,  MUFON Eastern Director,
March 4, 1999,   Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020

NUMEROUS SIGHTING REPORTS reports are coming in from all over
the world.  Only the best are being reported and hopefully we'll
have the resources to investigate in detail.  There may be some
witness confusion with Venus and Jupiter who passed within
one-tenth of a degree from each other in the evening sky on
February 23, 1999.  The planets will remain close together in
the west- southwest sky as they drift apart over the next
several weeks.  The bright planets get people looking at the sky
and they often notice and videotape the movement of strange
craft.

RHODE ISLAND

HOPE VALLEY -- Dennis Bossack reports on the evening of February
15, 1999, a large black triangular craft passed overhead at
11:40 PM.  It moved silently, swiftly and steadily.  There was
no breeze, nothing.  Phone 401-539-6733 P.O. Box 358 Hope
Valley, RI 02832.

OHIO

DAYTON - A blue UFO was sighted on February 14, 1999, at 11:15
PM, hundreds of witnesses between the cities of Dayton and
Cincinnati in southwestern Ohio. Five people called radio
station WLW 700 AM in Cincinnati and talked about the UFO on the
talk show Sci-Zone.  They said it was a "blue-colored object
with a wispy, luminous trail."  One caller was a retired police
officer from Dayton, who spotted the object in the northwest.
Another caller was from Milford, Ohio who reported the object
was accompanied a 'flash' before its disappearance.  Charles
Stuart, a Cincinnati UFO researcher who, witnessed the object at
around 11:15 PM Sunday night said.  "I observed a bluish-white
object descending vertically, disappearing behind a tree-line to
the north." It gave the impression that it landed or impacted
only a mile away.  The light could have been a large meteor or
bolide passing through Earth's atmosphere at high altitude.  The
light appeared to be the apparent size of a dime at arm's
length. Thanks to Kenneth Young of Cincinnati UFO Research,

OKLAHOMA

ELK CITY -- Skywatch reports that on March 3, 1999, several
witnesses reported seeing a flying object that was spinning
rapidly on its axis at 12: 35 PM.. It appeared to be mostly
stationary but had a wobble to it's spinning.  The object was
reflecting the sun, but seemed to be yellow-gold in color.  I
noticed several contrails and I am quite familiar with jet
aircraft after 6 years in the Air Force.  This object was not an
aircraft.  It appeared to be the size of a match head at arm's
length.  I kept the object in view for 5 minutes as it slowly
moved north till it was out of range.  Thanks to Jim Hickman
Skywatch International Inc.

ARIZONA

TUCSON -- James W. Bentley reports seeing a UFO on February 2,
1999, at 10:30 to 11:00 AM.  The object appeared to be the same
UFO as the one photographed over Nellis Test Range in Southern
Nevada in 1994.  The UFO was composed of 4 spheres very close to
each other, possibly connected together.  It was Grey metallic
in color then changing to a bright fiery glow then back to the
metal color many times.  A coworker and I witnessed the object
through binoculars over northern Tucson.  We watched for over
ten minutes then it slowly moved east.  There it stood still,
and then sped off to the north. 520-603-1364, 6635 E. Calle
Herculo Tucson, AZ  85710  James  Bentley
Jimbentley@tucsonelectric.com

NEVADA

GROOM LAKE -- Bob Hetsko reports a friend of mine put me in
touch with an airline pilot who saw a UFO in June of 1998.  He
and his co-pilot both saw a strange object flying in formation
above them.  They were flying from west to east at 40,000 feet
and the object was overhead.  Its altitude was hard to
determine, due the relatively small angular dimension of the
object.  It was the size of a pea held at arm's length.  The
object was largely invisible, but appeared for brief periods,
where it appeared as a plume of orange exhaust, or a cone of
orange.  It did not move like any rocket, jet or aircraft that
the two experienced pilots had seen before.  The movement was
very erratic, and mostly back and forth, tending to follow the
airplane in general flight path. Several times the object seemed
to stop a little to the north of Nellis AFB. They watched for
over 20 minutes.  I asked the pilot if it was reported?  He said
it was not.  He said it is frowned on to report anomalies over
the radio bands unless the parties know each other.  The pilot,
of course, wanted to remain anonymous.

CALIFORNIA

LAKE FOREST -- John Bruns, 29, a machinist reports that on
February 22, 1999, he was looking out side and saw the planets
Mars and Jupiter at 8:20 PM. After looking at the planets he saw
something moving,  but it wasn't an aircraft.  There were two
triangular shaped UFOs with red and white lights around them.
They were moving really slow east toward the mountains.  They
made no sound at all.  After I saw them, I saw two military
aircraft going after them.  Obviously the government knows but
won't tell us.  Can someone help me or tell me if they have seen
similar sightings in Orange County?  My sister and I watched the
craft for ten minutes. Thanks to Ben Field
bufod@abcfield.force9.co.uk

VAN NUYS -- General Contractor S. Windsor, 32, reports he was
standing in his driveway on February 23, 1999, in the San
Fernando Valley 9:05 PM.  My friend and his wife were standing
next to me talking and I said, "Look it's a shooting star!"  But
we decided it did not really look like a shooting star. It did
not have a tail or streak following behind it.  The object
yellowish to orange in color seemed to pulsate, get bigger and
smaller as it shot across the horizon.  It moved north to south
streaking  across the sky covering the horizon in about 5
seconds.  It however did not vanish into the horizon, but seemed
to vanish just before.  My friend saw it and agrees it was not a
shooting star.  The object made no sound in the clear sky.
Thanks to Ben Field BUFOD.

CANADA

The 1998 Canadian UFO Survey indicates Canadians reported 194
UFO sightings last year.  Ufology Research of Manitoba working
in cooperation with researchers across Canada has released its
annual review.  "UFO sightings continue to be reported at a
fairly constant rate," says Chris Rutkowski, an astronomer and
science writer in Winnipeg who for the past 25 years has been
studying UFO reports in Canada.  "People still report observing
unusual objects in the sky, and some of these objects do not
have obvious explanations."  The typical UFO sighting occurs
after 10:00 PM, and most sightings have two witnesses.  Many
witnesses are pilots, police and other individuals with good
observing capabilities and good judgment.  This year, the study
found there was an unexplained increase in the number of UFO
reports from the Northwest Territories and Yukon.  In addition,
researchers found that most UFOs in Canada were reported in the
fall than at any other time of year. "We are not sure why there
were some odd differences in the patterns of UFO reports last
year," says Rutkowski.  "But 1998 was definitely not like any
other year during the past ten years of this study."  Rutkowski
notes. "Although there is no incontrovertible evidence that some
UFOs are alien spaceships as popularized in the media, the
continued reporting of UFOs leads us to recommend more studies
of the phenomenon by social, medical and/or physical
scientists."  Among the 22 cases listed as "Unknowns" this year:
a black triangular object flew low over a truck driver on the
Hope-Princeton Highway.  A 'v'-shaped object affected electrical
devices in Bancroft, Ontario.  A softball-sized, metallic object
hovered over a witness near Emerald Lake, Yukon.  A
copper-colored cigar-shaped object flew over some campers near
Blainville, Quebec.   Thanks to Chris Rutkowski at:
rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca

JAMAICA

KINGSTON -- Lanre Coke reports, strange lights were seen by at
least three people in a Central Village area on February 28,
1999, at 10:30 PM.  It was reported by a woman who called a talk
show and said that she had seen a strange bright light.  It
seemed to light up everything and then in a few seconds it had
disappeared.  What is remarkable about this is that I have a
fellow co-worker who had experienced the same thing about 18
months ago while driving to the country with a friend.   The
were on a road that had no lights and then they said that all of
a sudden the whole area was lit up by this bright light.  Not
many people here in Jamaica believe in UFOs and they all laugh
when the topic is being discussed.  But it is as they say "It
would be a waste of space if we were the only intelligent life
form in this universe" Lanre Coke Jamaica West Indies.   Their
Phone Number: 876-926-7929-w/876-925-7305-h  Their Address: 13
Glenalmond Drive Kingston 8. Jamaica West Indies  Thanks to John
Thompson and ISUR.

PERU

LIMA -- On February 9, 1999, just before midnight, witnesses
from the port of Pisco, 300 kilometers south of Lima, watched a
large anomalous light emerge from the Pacific Ocean.  The UFO
was described by witnesses as a supply ship or mothership rose
into the air, banked sharply to the right and flew east heading
for the shore.  The following evening February 10, residents of
Chorrillos, a suburb of Lima reported seeing luminous discs
"flying at a low altitude."  In Jesus Maria, another Lima
suburb, residents poured into the plaza to watch the overflight
that was again videotaped.  Within the hour, another squadron of
luminous UFOs flew over the seaport city of Callao, 13
kilometers west of Lima.  By now, the word had spread, and a
crowd of about 2,000 people witnessed the overflight of Callao.
"Neighbors in the zone went outside of their homes in the hope
of seeing the OVNIs (Spanish acronym for UFOs) again."  At 11:00
PM both Channel 2 and 5 Television Panamericana stunned all two
million residents of Lima with a special 40-minute broadcast on
the UFO flap.  The show aired video footage of the objects
flying over Jesus Maria and Callao.  Two luminous UFOs flying
eastward towards the Andes from Ica, 400 kilometers south of
Lima.  Rumors spread about the presence of an undersea base a
dozen kilometers offshore.  On February 12, more UFO reports
came from the desert northeast of Lima as residents watched the
UFOs pass overhead.  According to Dr. Virgilio Sanchez Ocedo the
next day a startling videotape was shown on Channel 5 of a
saucer skimming low over the rooftops and palm trees of Callao.
(See the newspapers El Comercio and El Expresso for Feb. 13,
1999.  Thanks to Pilar Valencia, Guillermo Alarcon, Henry
Farias, Rose Marie Paz y Dr. Virgilio Sanchez  and Joseph
Trainor UFO Roundup Vol. 4 #8, 2/22/99.

UNITED KINGDOM GIANT CYLINDER

GLOUCESTERSHIRE -- On February 8, 1999, businessman Miles J. was
relaxing in his seat aboard a British Midlands A-310 Airbus
jetliner, when he spotted something odd outside his window.  He
was flying home from Belfast, Northern Ireland, and the plane
had just begun its descent into London's Heathrow Airport.
Miles said, "I was seated on the right side of the Airbus when I
saw a large, cigar-shaped UFO, at very high altitude.  The very
large, distinct, big cylindrical object was above the highest
cloud layer.  It seemed to be stationary and was 15 degrees
deviation from the aircraft's flight path."  "As the Airbus
began to descend, the object remained fixed in altitude at
45,000 to 50,000 feet and was obscured by high clouds.  The
object was white, long, and cylindrical, with no obvious
features.  It was pencil thin, with white rounded ends."  Miles
stated that he believes his plane was "a bit south of
Birmingham" when he spotted the UFO.  It would have been visible
from 25 to 10 minutes before landing.  The total time in view
was 15 minutes until the final descent into the clouds."  Mile's
estimated the craft was 50 miles away over Gloucestershire near
Cheltenham.  Thanks to Joseph Trainor UFO Roundup Vol. 4 #8,
2/22/99, Masinaigan@aol.com.  Editors Note: When I was in the
Air Force, London Control asked us to intercept a UFO about 30
miles from this sighting. London Control had it on radar above
Stonehenge.  We dove on the UFO and I got one of the largest
radar returns I had ever observed on my radar.  When we got
close it looked like a night shuttle launch into space.  I've
been chasing them ever since.

UFO LANDS IN KNUTSFORD, ENGLAND -- Tim Matthews reports the
British UFO Studies Centre and the Lancashire UFO Society under
the direction of UFO investigator Eric Morris are looking into
reports of a 'UFO landing' event. On February 28, March 1, 1999,
in Cheshire.  Witnesses reported anomalous lights in the area
and claim to have seen red and white lights descend very slowly
into the nearby woods.  The objects then behaved 'as if under
intelligent control.'  The local authorities, Police, Fire
Brigade or Air Traffic Control at Manchester International
Airport can shed and light on these unusual events.  The BUFOSC
team first discovered ground traces in the form of burn marks
and scorching, possibly associated with the lights reported.
Second, an unusual pattern in the surrounding bracken suggesting
that it has been pushed down or "squashed" over an area of 60
meters.  Third, evidence of tree and wildlife damage.  Soil
samples are being analyzed. Thanks to BUFOSC at
bufosc@compuserve.com  and Tim Matthews matthews@zetnet.co.uk

SCOTLAND UFO VIDEO

STIRLING -- Videotape of dozens of silver orb-like objects were
shot by a road worker known only as Brian.  Last December, Brian
shot five and a half hours of video from which about 15 minutes
is considered particularly impressive. Investigator Russel
Callaghan told reporters, "We're convinced we've got something
extremely unusual.  What we've seen at Stirling is one of the
most convincing cases I have ever handled.  Callaghan said.
"Brian is as genuine as the day is long and wasn't out to make a
million.  He is certainly not a fraud or a con-man."  Callaghan
reportedly questioned Brian for more than eight hours before
arriving at his conclusions.  The Daily Record and Sunday Mail
report said that Brian's video is being "hailed as 'the most
significant UFO footage ever recorded in Britain.'"  Callaghan
said, "Some of the maneuvers and detail on the 15-minute tape
were stunning and resembled the activity recorded in the skies
over Mexico," he said.  A Scottish voice is heard on the video
saying "Crazy, crazy stuff" as a UFO appears to skim through the
clouds at high speed.  Brian turned his tape over to the UFO
Magazine editor Graham Birdsall, who said Brian does not own any
sophisticated video editing equipment.  He added "Brian has
neither the resources nor inclination to perpetuate a hoax."
Thanks to Jeff Rense (www.sightings.com) and Britain's Daily
Record and Sunday Mail Online, 2/24/99 www.record- mail.co.uk),

NORTHERN IRELAND

ARMAGH -- Alan Sewell from The 'Irish Centre for UFO Studies
reports their Program for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Research
(PEIR) studies have shown that out of 400 reported UFO
sightings, 120 were in the far southwest region near Bantry.
County Cork in the Bantry area is similar if not more active
than Bonnybridge, Scotland.  This area is considered the third
most active UFO area in the world.  This group attempts to
predict when Extraterrestrial Intelligence events are likely to
take place.  This research is an alternative to the
international government sponsored SETI Program operating in
other bands of the electromagnetic spectrum.  The research has
enabled a theory to predict when close encounters are likely to
occur at given locations in the future, based on data from past
events.  A scientific study of UFO Close Encounter (CE) Events
has revealed that such CE activity is satisfactorily explained
as being an important element of an astronomical surveillance of
the earth by technologically advanced space craft.  On June 24,
1997, the PEIR team described the process and dynamics behind
the ET activities on a Television Program, 'We Are Not Alone.'
This program was shown in Europe and the USA.  ICUFOS and PEIR
announced to the public through radio and television interviews
that for the very first time in the world they were able to
successfully predict when UFOs would occur for Sky Watchers.
The predictions were successful and resulted with both public
and the PEIR team witnessing sightings that are published in a
special report for that period.  Thanks to Irish Center of UFO
Studies ic.ufos@virgin.net 156 Meadowbrook.  Craigavon. Co
Armagh.  N Ireland.  BT65 5AD and skypost@unix.ltlb.com

SPAIN

ALICANTE COUNTY -- We where driving up to my house when all of a
sudden my car just stopped.  My two friends and I where laughing
at first, but then we noticed that our cellular phone also shut
down.  The digital clock and everything electrical in the car
was inoperative.  We stepped out of the car because we heard a
humming sound.  We looked up and saw three lights shaped in a
triangle.  Suddenly it flew off and our electrical systems
became operational again.  We could switch on our cellular phone
and everything in the car worked fine.  The weirdest thing of it
all is that a colossal big triangular shaped thing was directly
above us, but we didn't feel any pressure or wind keeping that
thing up there.  It took off at incredible speed without
producing any sound.  The UFO hovered at about 30 meters above
us for ten seconds.  All our watches and cellular time where
exactly 5 minutes behind, and we know this because we phoned the
time service right after the incident. Thanks to Ben Field BUFOD
at: http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk RPIT:

SOUTH AFRICA

GRAAFF-REINET -- The Evaluation Center For UFO Reports (ECUFOR)
has completed its preliminary investigation of footage of
alleged UFOs.  Testimonies of primary witnesses have been
obtained.  On December 27, 1998, at about 3:00 PM, the Laubscher
family observed between 8 to 10 objects moving rapidly in a
northerly direction over Graaf-Reinet.  This is a small town
situated some 260 km north of Port Elizabeth.  Mr. Laubscher
managed to capture a few minutes of this incident on video.  The
objects appeared somewhat roundish triangular and seemed to move
in a group.  Occasionally one or two would stop and the others
would circle around.  This motion repeated    itself a few
times.  While moving the objects were shinny gold in color but
when stationary appeared to switch to red and then to blue.  The
size of these objects was judged to be roughly 4 to 5 times that
of a Boeing aircraft at the same altitude.  The group had been
in view for a few seconds when another much larger object
traveling at very high speed in the same flight path proceeded
in a northerly direction through and past the group.  The larger
object appeared gold in color and was basically spherical.  It
traveled at a constant speed and did not change color.  Its size
was estimated to be roughly 8 times that of a Boeing at the same
altitude.  The group of smaller objects then followed the larger
sphere and they all disappeared behind some high clouds near the
horizon.  These clouds were roughly 2,000 feet.  There was no
visible residue or jet stream and no noise.  The video indicates
the presence of at least three objects zooming in and out of
focus.  There is substantial good footage for evaluation.
Thanks to T. Farley and N. Herbiet ECUFOR  P.O. BOX 7784 --
Newton Park Port Elizabeth - 6055 - South Africa cell-phone :
0826592428 ecufor@mweb.co.za

DR. RICHARD HAINES NASA SCIENTIST REQUEST

I have a favor to ask of you.  I am embarking on a new study of
certain UFO evidence which deals only with cases in which the
aerial phenomenon seen was highly asymmetric, unusual,
strange-appearing.  I am not interested in discs, saucers, etc.
But each case must contain a lot of eye-witness details about
the phenomenon (for example, flight trajectory, speed(s),
acceleration(s), lighting pattern(s), rays, radiation, landing,
sounds, EM interference, and such.  A second requirement is that
the eye witness must have made one or more drawings of the
phenomenon that are also available.  Artistic ability is not
important, but labeled details on and around the
object/phenomenon are valuable.  Mail material to: Dr. Richard
F. Haines, 325 Langton Avenue Los Altos, CA. 94022
dhaines@mail.arc.nasa.gov (Richard F. Haines)

Crass commercials: GET THE BEST REALTORS and HELP UFO RESEARCH
As a special aid to our readers, we can provide you with the
best real estate experts in your area at no cost to you.  Make
sure you have a top notch agent, to buy or sell your home or
real estate investments.  We provide free relocation information
and consulting services from the largest and most respected real
estate firms.  If you are planning to sell or buy a home and
would like a top flight real estate agent give me a call at 609
654-0020 or e- mail me at Majorstar@aol.com.  Please send your
name, phone number, address, price, and location.

MUFON JOURNAL For more detailed investigative reports subscribe
by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or E-mail
Mufon@aol.com.  Filer's Files Copyright 1998 by George A. Filer,
all rights reserved.  Readers may post items from the Files on
their Websites provided that they credit the newsletter and its
editor by name and list the date of issue that the item
appeared.  Send your letters to me at Majorstar@aol.com.  If you
wish to keep your name confidential please so state.







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   Mar > Mar 6

                         Re: Trent and Rouen Images

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:53:47 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 22:18:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images


>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 01:14:14 EST
>Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:26:56 -0500
>Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:41:35 -0500
>>Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 21:43:40 -0500

>>To go from the Trent #2 to the Rouen photo requires 'morphing'
>>or non-linear stretching. Could this have been done in 1957?
>>Perhaps with the use of non-symmetric lenses (not a cylindrical
>>lens). But who would think of it? If someone wanted to create
>>a Trent-like photo but at another aspect one could make a model
>>and then photograph it at will.

>Some old photo-enlargers allow the lens to be tilted, which
>tilts the image slightly, although adding a 'key-stoning'
>effect. This would shorten the image, not lengthen it. But a
>reverse effect could have been created by tilting the photo
>paper at an angle, thus stretching the image.

These are various features that would have to distorted to go
from a Trent to a Rouen:

1.  Width of the rim relative to the main body
2.  Pointedness of rim
3.  Bottom arc of rim
4.  Length of the tower on top

While doing all this distorting by tilting the lens, the film,
by standing on one's head, drinking Gesundt's gripple, whatever,
the Trent hoaxer/copier somehow also has to:

1.  _Improve_ the clarity of the image and smoothness of the
    edges, particular the tower with bulb on top

2.  _Reverse_ the shading of the object

3.  Bring in some overhead illumination and show a little of the
    object's top.

That's a pretty neat bunch of tricks.  How exactly does one do
it?

>A model would not be necessary.

But would only make the job of reproducing an object similar to
Trent infinitely easier than all of the above:  Spend an hour or
two making the model; reshoot the picture; go home.

>Since no one can even come up with the source for this anonymous
>picture, or anything else about it, why is it considered important at all?

Because it looks a lot like the Trent object with that offset
"tower/bulb" on top.  _If_ the source could have been traced,
and _if_ the negative could have been found, and _if_ it all
seemed to check out, it would have been important corroboration
of the Trent photos.

But you are right.  Barring some miracle 40 years later, it's
highly unlikely that either the source or negative will be
forthcoming.  That's why Bruce Maccabee and I are scratching our
heads why James Easton is making such a big deal out of Rouen
being a distorted photo copy of Trent.  First, it's extremely
unlikely.  See all of above.  Second, even if a hoax, it has no
direct bearing on the authenticity of the Trent photos.


David Rudiak





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   Mar > Mar 6

              Re: Hoagland Charged With More Plagiarism & Fraud

From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 18:35:02 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 22:25:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Hoagland Charged With More Plagiarism & Fraud


>UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote:
>From Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto

>Source: Jeff Rense's 'Sightings' Homepage

>http://www.sightings.com/ufo2/remedy.htm

>Richard Hoagland Charged With More Plagiarism And Fraud

<snip>

I clearly remember Hoagland stating that he was the first
scientist to present the idea that water was on Europa during an
Art Bell program. Of course, it was also Hoagland who apparently
took credit for someone else's work on the recent Fox Television
special.

Mr. Greenberg is, by far, not the only person Art Bell has put
on a back burner. During the entire Hale-Bopp controversy that
raged on Bell's three-ring circus of a program, Bell did indeed
have plenty of information that Chuck "The Schmuck" Schrameck's
data concerning the bogus Hale-Bopp companion was not correct.

Linda Howe, on the air during Bell's "Dreamland", went to
lengths to inform Bell that Schrameck's data was faulty. Bell
rudely brushed her off and brought Schrameck on the air
immediately, dramatically announcing, "Now the other side of the
story!", giving Schrameck plenty of air time...Controversy is
good for ratings...Remember when Hoagland claimed that all the
Heaven's Cult members weren't the victims of suicide but were
_actually_ murdered and law enforcement was covering it up?

<snip>

>But my fax to Art Bell, which you can find there, will give you
>an idea of my futile attempt to get some honesty about this
>issue onto his show.

>--Ralph Greenberg

Bell isn't interested in honesty, he's only interested in
ratings.

<snip>

>In February and March, 1998, I sent several other faxes to Art
>Bell which were much shorter and which were mostly a copy of
>part of a letter that I received from Arthur C. Clarke.

>Art Bell has never shared any of these faxes with his audience.

Bell (in November) presented Dr.Jonathan Reed on his program,
the guy who says he killed an alien and stored it in a
freezer... sheesh... After interviewing Reed's "business
manager", receiving independent information regarding the photos
(you can see a straight pin and other very terrestrial artifacts
on the 'alien'), and independently submitting an article to CNI
News, I too decided to contact Bell with the information that
showed this story was bogus. After receiving an e-mail reply and
sending all the image enhancements showing the flaws in the
fraud (not once, but twice sending this info at the request of
Bell) Bell never shared the information with his listeners.

There were several other people who contacted Bell with this
information as well...they did not receive any response other
than Bell questioning the qualifications of one person. I told
Bell he could either have me on his program to confront Reed or
could share the information with his audience and didn't have to
give me credit for the info. Instead he referred to all of the
people sending this information as "pixel counters" on the air
when he had Reed back on the program... even with straight pins
and a button visible on the alien prop. All the while Bell
promoted the photos as being genuine since they were "on real
Kodak paper." Never mind that I told Bell there were digital
imaging systems that utilized printers that produce images on
actual
Kodak paper.

Jeff Rense (Sightings On The radio) did cover the Reed Hoax and
invited Reed on his program and has also invited Hoagland on
several occasions. Frauds like Hoagland, Reed, and Robert "I'm
Really Not a Native American" Ghostwolf will only opt for a
program like Bell's because they know they're not going to get
hit with hard questions and will be allowed to offer any
ramblings without the host being critical of their claims.

Bell, Hoagland, and the rest of the frauds have a policy: If it
can hurt them in any way, then they won't confront the issue.
Ignore it and (hopefully) it'll go away. This is an established
pattern of behavior from Bell and Hoagland. Don't hold your
breath waiting for a response. We all know Bell and Hoagland
_might_ spend 2 minutes joking about it and then will just bury
it. No wonder the majority of professionals avoid UFOlogy. I
sincerely hope that Mr.Greenberg is not under the impression that
Hoagland and Bell represent in any way the majority of UFOlogy.

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III






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   Mar > Mar 7

                        Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

From: Alex Heard <aheard@wired.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:08:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 09:26:04 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'


>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 00:03:53 -0500
>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'


Gary Alevy's rantlet about my book seemed ... strange. I'm sorry
he hated it so much (even though I gather he hasn't read it and
isn't going to, but was reacting mainly to my Web site) and
considers the NYT's review the last word on the subject ...
Personally, I think Maureen Corrigan's observations were lame,
needlessly grumpy, and full of certifiable errors about what I
did and didn't say in my book. But hey, I *would* say that.

More to the point here: why did he drag Jerome Clark, Larry
Hatch, and Jim Mortellaro into this? They haven't been shilling
for my book; they simply were nice enough to welcome me onto the
list when I clumsily made myself known a few weeks ago with a
"howdy" that sounded too much like a spam. (To all concerned:
sorry about that.) Jerry Clark in particular has been generous
with me for years, but that's basically the extent of the
rah-rah conspiracy. He's a nice guy who likes to share what he
knows, not some sort of bubble-headed cheerleader for me.

So Gary, if you're out there: please lighten up.


Thanks,

Alex Heard

Care to discuss The End? Check out Apocalypse Pretty Soon, the
Web site, e-mail discussion group, and book at:

http://www.apocalypseprettysoon.com





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 7

                 Re: -=[For The Record]=- Meier Case - Redux

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:09:57 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 09:31:04 -0500
Subject: Re: -=[For The Record]=- Meier Case - Redux


>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 5:35 PM
>To: Skywatch International Inc.
>Subject: Meier Case - Redux

>The Eduard Billy Meier Case -- Redux

>I was recently given a numbered (No. 110 of 2,000) limited first
>edition copy of Wendelle C. Stevens's groundbreaking book, UFO
>Contact from The Pleiades: A Preliminary Investigation Report,
>copyright 1978. I d never read the book before, and had only
>given the Eduard Billy Meier case a cursory look when it first
>surfaced back in the late 70 s.

>Having seen the big coffee table book of the incredible full
>color photos, I like many others never gave the Meier case much
>credit it was simply too good to be true. But my recent receipt
>of the Stevens book just happened to coincide with some newly
>surfacing revelations regarding the Meier case.

>Researcher Michael Hesemann has discovered an eyewitness who had
>known Billy Meier when he lived in India between April and
>September 1964, while studying Buddhism at the Ashoka-Ashram in
>Mehrauli near New Delhi. I quote from Hesemann's article on the
>official Meier site in Switzerland.

>---

>In October 1996 the International Humanistic Society and the
>UN's SEAT team invited me, Michael Hesemann, to present a talk
>to their group at the Headquarter of the United Nations. The
>lecture was held in the format of a small conference where
>Carlos Diaz, Madeleine Rodeffer, and Colonel Colman VonKeviczky
>also spoke.

>After the event a lady approached me and introduced herself as a
>member of the UN delegation of a South-East Asian country. She
>asked me whether I knew Billy Meier, and I confirmed this fact
>of course. She wanted to hear my opinion of him, and I replied I
>was convinced of the contacts' authenticity. Her friendly face
>literally lit up and then she revealed her story to me:

>She had known Billy Meier when he lived in India. Between April
>and September 1964, Meier had taken one of his trips around the
>world. ....

<snip>

Hello Kim,

This lady, this witness -- Phobal, indeed spoke very
compellingly and sincerely at the 8th International UFO congress
in Laughlin last month. She as a child was a witness not only to
Asket and to Asket & Meier walking together, but to Asket's UFOs
hovering above the ashram on several occasions. She was followed
on the speaker's platform by an Indian lady (Sachi) who had been
Phobal's tutor in the Hindi language at the time (1964-65). She
could recall Phobal having spoken to her about having seen "the
goddess" (as Asket was called by other witnesses at the ashram)
and the concurrent UFO's.

But at the Congress Hesemann mentioned the names of some other
30+ witnesses, in Switzerland, who can verify the reality of
Meier's contacts. He's done a very valuable service in getting
these witnesses' testimonies onto tape and into print, just as
Wendelle Stevens did in his book of 17 years ago you mentioned.

>While reading the Stevens book, I came across a truly remarkable
>passage that creates an even more compelling reason to examine
>the Meier contacts in a serious new light.

>The particular passage in question begins on page 56, and is
>reproduced in its entirety below: In a contact on 2 March 1975
>Meier was given three missions to carry out. Part III of the
>contact pertaining to the third mission is translated as
>follows: [There follows the discourse to Meier concerning ozone
>holes and bromine gas as an agent in the destruction of the
>ozone layer.]

As you say, Kim, this mention of bromine here is indeed
prescient, and precedes by several years any mention in any
scientific literature that bromine would be important in the
destruction of ozone. For many years the emphasis was mainly
upon chlorine without mention of bromine, which is now known to
be far more efficient, per atom, then chlorine in destroying
stratospheric ozone. The earliest mention I know of that bromine
is important along with chlorine is in a 1984 article in
_Nature_ (vol. 312, pp. 227-231) by 5 authors, including Michael
McElroy, the scientist Meier was told to write to about the
matter. So what Meier was told preceded general scientific
knowledge about the bromine aspect by at least 9 years.

Regarding ozone holes, what Meier was told is less convincing.
He was told of ozone holes (plural) circulating with the wind
and not of a single hole (over Antarctica) that would dominate





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   Mar > Mar 7

                 Re: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic

From: Stephen MILES Lewis <elfis@io.com>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 23:01:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 09:35:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic


>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 16:48:48 -0600
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
>Subject: Re: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic Sensitivity

Comments below . . .

>>From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com>
>>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:37:06 -0500 (EST)
>>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic Sensitivity

>>It has long been thought that some UFOs radiate electromagnetic
>>energy strong enough to shut off vehicle engines and to leave
>>burn marks on the individuals who encounter them.

>>Albert Budden has investigated the ElectroMagnetic Hypothesis
>>[EMH] more thoroughly than anyone I'm aware of. One thrust of
>>his work is to show that exposure to EM fields can have a wider
>>range of objective and subjective effects than has previously
>>been thought.

>Joseph,

<snip>

>Persinger's own
>"Space-Time Transients and Unusual Events" (co-authored with
>Gyslaine F. Lafreniere) was published in this country by
>Nelson-Hall in 1977.

>This is not to denigrate Budden and his work in any fashion. In
>fact, I support his questionnaire and its use. But for the
>record (and whether rightly or wrongly), Budden is following
>Persinger's footsteps. To the best of my knowledge, Persinger
>continues to contribute to scientific, peer-reviewed journals.
>Does Budden?

>Dennis Stacy
>http://www.anomalist.com

Persinger is in the peer reviewed (read pricey$) literature and
(as Dennis points out) Budden has done some good research but is
in the immediate footsteps of Persinger who has funding for lab
experiments. Budden treads lightly in the area of psychotronics
and possible misuse among military/intelligence types (atleast
in Aliens & Allergies).

Towards more talk of early UFO era em/ufo sites, an excerpt from
an old article of mine from:

http://www.elfis.net/ELFOL1/ELFis1.html

Perhaps Mark Cashman can comment on the sites as to their
scientific robustness. I've never read a critique of these
sources; Poher and Robiou. I have heard criticism of Persinger's
data set for his Transients book, and Mr. Cashman points to some
of the flaws, perhaps, in his previous post Re: UFO Sighting
Sites

----

UFOs are known to have distinct electromagnetic effects;
disrupting engines and electrical systems. Even experiencers,
such as Whitley Strieber, describe difficulties with household
electrical and mechanical appliances after their encounters with
the UFO phenomena. Dr. Kenneth Ring noted this same propensity
in his study of UFO Experiencers and Dr. Stanislov Grof helps
people going through both the pain of Chi' ("subtle energy")
awakening and UFO Encounters. John Keel is a long time proponent
of the UFO Intelligences as ElectroMagnetic Entities able to
penetrate our reality in geographical zones known as UFO Flap
Areas. These geographical flap areas have also been noted by Dr.
David Saunders, Ted Holiday, Jenny Randles and Paul Devereaux.

The electromagnetic aspect of the UFO phenomena is evident.
Claude Poher found that most UFO sightings occurred during
periods of maximum geomagnetic activity. Sebastion Robiou's
study of a 1973 UFO wave in Puerto Rico showed the majority of
sightings were within 30 kilometers radius of areas which are
magnetically anomalous. He also noted that these were not
sighted directly over these areas but from the periphery
outwards. After collecting and examining thousands of sightings
Keel states unequivocally:


     "Every state in the United States has from two to ten
"windows." These are areas where UFOs appear repeatedly year
after year.

     If you have been collecting UFO reports in your home state,
you will probably find that many of those are concentrated in
areas magnetic faults or deviations exist.

     UFOs seem to congregate above the highest available hills
in these window areas. They become visible in these centers and
then radiate outward, traveling sometimes 100-200 miles before
disappearing again."


In Space-Time Transients and Unusual Events Dr. Michael
Persinger analyzed Fortean and UFO events looking for spatial
and temporal patterns. His many speculative conclusions have all
been quite controversial, not least of which has been the
Tectonic Strain Theory whereby UFO activity can been seen as the
result of faulting processes within the earth. Since publication
of this hot potato Persinger has been experimenting with
laboratory based and electronically induced "mystical"
experiences akin (but not identical) to UFO Contacts and
Abductions. I have also read of his supposed development of a
sonic crowd control device which induces vomiting.

Perhaps significantly, John Keel wrote in 1970 that, "In the
1950's, teams from the national Geological Survey Office quietly
flew specially equipped planes over most of the United States
and mapped all of the magnetic faults in the country."

Doctors Jose Delgado, John Lilly, and others have experimented
with the control of physiological processes and behaviors
through electromagnetic and pharmacological means. Martin Cannon
has demonstrated that our government  and military have
researched the potential of these technologies for use in
controlling both the "Foreign Enemy" and "Domestic Civilian."
That such psychotronics have been tested at least limitedly can
not be dismissed. From examining Congressional inquiries, Agency
informants, and actual hands-on research we can begin to get a
glimpse of what is at least possible if not probable.

In 1978 researcher Robert Beck began circulating a paper titled
Extreme Low Frequency Magnetic Fields and EEG Entrainment - A
Psychotronic Warfare Possibility! In this article he detailed
his own research into the induction of specific brain wave
states through exposure to ELF fields. He and others have
demonstrated the same effects utilizing pulsed light, sound and
electricity as evidenced by the Mind Machines currently
available through New Age / New Tech catalogs like Tools For
Exploration and organizations such as the USPA United States
Psychotronics Association. In Beck's extensive bibliography are
several references to similar experiments undertaken by our own
military establishment including:

for links to this ELF EEG Entrainment article and bibliography go
here:

http://www.elfis.net/ELFOL8/e8elfeeg1.htm

http://www.vxm.com/bib.doc.html

SMiles
http://www.elfis.net





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 7

                           Re: UFO Sighting Sites

From: Stephen MILES Lewis <elfis@io.com>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 23:01:25 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 09:41:09 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Sighting Sites


>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 15:11:52 -0800
>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO Sighting Sites

>>Subject: Re: UFO Sighting Sites
>>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:53:56 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

><snip>

>>"Painstaking research"? Doesn't seem that way, so far.

>Thanks for your comments. I agree, in general, however, I
>wasn't seeking comments on the information itself. I just
>wanted to know if anyone had heard of Mr. Tery. I have never
>run across his name in Ufology before. This was the first time
>I had seen anyone try to correlate graviational anomalies of the
>earth with UFO sightings.

Hello all, glad to see this discussion of EM/UFO connections
again.

I have not heard of Mr. Tery, however I believe Paul Devereux
once suggested that gravity maps could be useful in discovering
geographic zones which might alter human consciousness while
also being perhaps prone to earth lights and thus UFO reports.

As to the degree of quality of research in these areas, it seems
much is difficult to access in the open literature. However, do
visit these links for open literature sites on the
psychoactivity of electromagnetics (and perhaps gravitics).

http://www.elfis.net/ELFOL8/e8elfeeg1.htm

http://www.vxm.com/bib.doc.html

<snip>

>The quote results from discussions on a listserver regarding
>gravitomagnetic and torsion fields. A torsion field results from
>a rotating mass. The listserver is VortexC and we have several
>Russian scientists posting there. They are claiming that torsion
>fields are the method of propulsion used by UFOs. They also make
>claims that these fields are implicated in ESP, pyramid effects,
>and possibly a superluminal method of communicating. They claim
>that information can be transmitted by a torsion field at a
>speed with a lower bound of 10E9 (one billion, American) times
>the speed of light.

Vallee alludes to this kind of research in his Samizdat book in
the context as a potential for a biologically based non-local
information communications SETI program. If psychic phenomena
exhibit truly non-local informational qualities then couldn't a
communications technology be designed to utilize this? Could the
abduction phenomena be a communication of this sort in a virtual
reality environment akin to (or accessible within) certain
altered states of consciousness? Too many questions.

>Supporting experiments include one in Japan where the fall rate
>of spinning gyroscopes varied with the rate and direction of
>spin.

On an early R. Hoagland video some years ago I saw a description
of this concept. Not having much of a physics background I
didn't know what to think.

>One researcher, Dr. Shipov, is alleged to have a complete theory
>on this; but, alas, it is written in Russian. The really
>interesting thing is that, from what I have seen so far, it is
>possible that this theory can explain the gravitational
>anomalies reported by Podkletnov, Schnurer, Li, et.al. that
>allegedly appear above a rotating superconducting disk.

>I would like to contact Mr. Tery if anyone knows how to reach
>him.

Indeed. Tho Mr Cashman's comment of the conman calling card
("help, I'm being repressed!") is of merit. Kt Frankovich, of
Art Bell fame, spoke of being approached by "NASA" suits
regarding her encounters with a grey like kangaroo bounding
critter with twelve fingers (a la the autopsy). Her encounters
occurred under a stretch of high tension power lines.

buuzzzzzzzz

>Regards,
>Terry

>PS Torsion energy is very likely related to Orgone energy, if it
>exists.

Dangit! "I hate it when my schwartz gets twisted." Livin in this
trailer makes my orgone go haywire!

SMiles
http://www.elfis.net
mailto:elfis@io.com





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   Mar > Mar 7

                 Re: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 00:13:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 09:45:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic


>From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:37:06 -0500 (EST)
>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Budden's Checklist for ElectroMagnetic Sensitivity

>It has long been thought that some UFOs radiate electromagnetic
>energy strong enough to shut off vehicle engines and to leave
>burn marks on the individuals who encounter them.

That's true, but unfortunately nothing that follows
serves to illuminate the cause of those cases.

>Albert Budden has investigated the ElectroMagnetic Hypothesis
>[EMH] more thoroughly than anyone I'm aware of... >He writes
>that, among those with Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity,
>exposure to EMFs

>   ... could translate into the utterly bizarre consciousness
>effects of alien abductions, out-of-body experiences (OBEs),
>ghostly visitations and the physical phenomena of 'hauntings',
>poltergeists and UFOs.

Unfortunately, this "hypothesis" utterly fails to explain
interesting UFOs, such as those found in RV cases, multiple
witness sightings, and, of course, physical trace cases.

>Budden naturally urges UFO/Abduction investigators to gather
>evidence that would either implicate the EMH or rule it out in
>any particular case. To help investigators standardize their
>approach, Budden distills his approach into a series of
>questions to ask experiencers.

>They are:

<big snip>

So how many of these with a "yes" response will "implicate the
EMH"? Because it seems to me that most of these questions will
get a "yes" from most people on earth. They can't really be said
to help "implicate" or "rule out".

>Oddly enough, Budden does not ask, "Have you ever found
>yourself lying fully conscious or in a dreamlike state, unable
>to move or cry out, while experiencing auditory or visual
>phenomena, or total blackness?"

It doesn't seem odd to me to find one item missing from a
laundry list of questions that mostly have positive responses.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo.htm





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   Mar > Mar 7

                     F'risco MUFON's Debate Of The Year

From: Ted Oliphant III <alkahest@slip.net>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 02:19:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 10:01:23 -0500
Subject: F'risco MUFON's Debate Of The Year


MUFON FIELD INVESTIGATOR TRAINING SEMINAR
Sunday APRIL 18, 1999 - 10 A.M. til 5 P.M.
The B'Hai Center
170 Valencia Street  (Between Duboce * McCoppin)
San Francisco, California

Featuring:  JOE FIRMAGE http://www.thewordistruth.org/login.cfm
            (Former CEO of USWeb)

            BOB WOOD http://www.ufomind.com/people/w/wood/
            (Fund for UFO Research)

            RYAN WOOD http://www.artbell.com/majestic.html
            (U.S. Government UFO Document Researcher)

            JOHN SHIRLEY
            http://www.darkecho.com/JohnShirley/jsbiblio.html
            (Author: Silicon Embrace. Wetbones, Black Butterflies.
            Screenwriter:The Crow.The Specialist.Star Trek Deep
            Space 9 Lyricist: Blue Oyster Cult.)

THIS WILL BE THE DEBATE OF THE YEAR! The first session begins at
10 A.M. sharp with BOB and RYAN WOOD teaching how to research
documents for authenticity. This includes an online exercise
projected on a giant screen and a demo of their CD-Rom.

Moderator JOHN SHIRLEY will play devil's advocate/skeptical
believer during this session. This will ensure a balanced
presentation and to interject questions and observations often
overlooked by Field Investigators.

The final session will be presented by former USWeb CEO, JOE
FIRMAGE. His experiences and views on the UFO Phenomenon, what
it means to him and why he stepped down as CEO of a
multi-billion dollar company because of his views on UFOs!

Their will be an hour long Q & A session with Mr. Firmage
following his presentation. Plus Special Guests...

Admission to this all day affair is $30.00 and includes lunch

To order tickets or make a reservation mail a check or money
order payable to:

O, O & O
4 STRATHMOOR DRIVE
BERKELEY, CA 94705   Attn: MUFON SEMINAR

Or:

Call Ted Oliphant, Training Coordinator, Northern California MUFON
http://www.realityb.com/Articles/
@ (510) 288 3203





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   Mar > Mar 7

                         Re: Opening the Lost Tombs

From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 22:37:26 +1000
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 10:06:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Opening the Lost Tombs


>Date: 06 Mar 1999 14:51:00 +0200
>From: Jens Hassler <Lukey@stepnet.de>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Opening the Lost Tombs

>>From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
>>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Opening the Lost Tombs
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:11:11 -0800

>>These glyphs, actually long known to Rosicrucians, are indeed
>>representations of ancient Egyptian high technology.

>These hieroglyphes surely don't represent any 'modern
>technology' (it would be hard to imagine modern looking
>helicopters in ancient Egypt). Instead, the drawings are nothing
>more than normal egyptian hieroglyphs like the 'hand' or the
>'basket'.

The hieroglyph in the scene in the Temple of Set I in Abydos
which supposedly showed helicopters, submarines, etc are the
result of palimpsest where an inscription has been written on
more than once with some of the plaster falling away and the
results indeed look like modern craft.


Bill Alford

googong@interact.net.au  http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa






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   Mar > Mar 7

                          BWW Media Alert 19990307

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:54:03 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 10:28:44 -0500
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19990307

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF<A HREFALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to=
 reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that=
 attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good=
 etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you=
 forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).


March 7, 1999

Phew!  Did you survive Alien Invasion Week on the Learning Channel?  I did
enjoy the ET ENCOUNTER special, which focussed primarily on Varhingha.  The
pure scope of that event is intriguing, even if this show did do a lot of
"dramatic recreations".

Short on time, as usual=85

On to the listings: Times are generally Pacific.

RADIO

Wanted to direct you to THE X-CHRONICLES site.  Skywatch's Bill Hamilton and
Jim Hickman should be archived on there from a show they did yesterday (if=
 the
archive isn't up yet, try back later).  It's at <A HREF=3D"http://www.x-
chronicles.com/">http://www.x-chronicles.com/<;/A> .

Also, I've heard that Eddie Middleton's very popular show in the South,
Nightsearch, has a website at <A HREF=3D"http:listen.to/nightsearch">
http:listen.to/nightsearch</A>.  I have not had time (believe it or not) to
check it out, but I will.

SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO
Quite simply, this is my favorite show on which to appear. Jeff is=
 well-versed
on the topics, but likes to let the guests speak. You can hear Real Audio of
the show, and there are archives as well. Go to
<A HREF=3D"http://www.sightings.com/">http://www.sightings.com/<;/A> for more
information. The show is on at 7:00 PM Pacific Monday through Saturday, and
8:00 PM Pacific on Sunday. You can hear it anywhere through your computer.

Sunday, March 7, 8:00 PM, Lloyd Pye, author of EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG,
on the possible discovery of an alien hybrid
Monday, March 8, 7:00 PM, Jerome Clark, one of the true authorities on UFOs
(and a leading fortean as well), and author of THE UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA (among
other great reference works)
Tuesday, March 9, 7:00 PM, Nick Bunick, author of IN GOD'S TRUTH on angels
Wednesday, March 10, 7:00 PM, Michael Lindemann, with his weekly UFO/ET
update; David Icke
Thursday, March 11, 7:00 PM, Budd Hopkins=85without him, the modern alien
abduction literature basically wouldn't exist=85it's all three degrees of
separation from Budd.
Friday, March 12, 7:00 PM, the incredibly prolific author Brad Steiger
Saturday, March 7:00 PM, David John Oates, the reverse speech guy

TELEVISION


THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL

Sunday, March 7, 12:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE, MYSTERIES
OF THE MAYA
Thursday, March 11, 10:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT CREATURES (birds and
lizards)
Thursday, March 12, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT CREATURES (birds and
lizards)

THE LEARNING CHANNEL


Sunday, March 7, 12:00 AM, ALIEN SECRETS: AREA 51
Sunday, March 7, 1:00 PM, UFOS: ABOVE AND BEYOND (hosted by James Doohan)
Sunday, March 7, 2:00 PM, SEARCHING FOR UFOS
Sunday, March 7, 4:00 PM, THE UNINVITED (includes Whitley Strieber)
Sunday, March 7, 11:00 PM, CURSE OF TUTANKHAMEN

LIFETIME


Next Thursday, March 18, 11:00 PM, NEW ATTITUDES (includes the topic of
psychics)

THE SCIENCE CHANNEL


The new schedule (since December 28, 1998) is weird programming for an hour
each at 3:00 AM, 11:00 AM,and 7:00 PM. Alternating shows are: INTO THE=
 UNKNOWN
and ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE. They also run a Roswell show now
every other week (it's probably the same show every time) at 4:00 AM and=
 noon
on Sundays.

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL


Tuesday, March 9, 11:00 AM, Episode #4042 (Mantell UFO chase and death;
psychic detectives; ghost)
Wednesday, March 10, 11:00 AM, Episode #4043 (Peruvian UFOs; UFOs and
religion; psychic; Martian canals)
Thursday, March 11, 11:00 AM, Episode #4044 (Brazilian UFOs; Ohio bigfoot;
feng shui)
Friday, March 12, 11:00 AM, Episode #4045 (angels vs. ghosts; radio from=
 Mars)

SYNDICATED


DONNIE AND MARIE, psychic Char

___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =EErything____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if
there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is=
 Tuesday, the week before.
_____________________________






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   Mar > Mar 7

             'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: Chris Rutkowski

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 13:49:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 13:49:22 -0500
Subject: 'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: Chris Rutkowski




From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

On 'Strange Days... Indeed' tonight, Chris Rutkowski.

Join co-host Jonn Kares and I on 'Strange Days...Indeed' as we
discuss Chris' 1998 Canadian UFO Survey with him.


The program starts at 11:00pm EST on

1010 CFRB AM - 50,000 watts 'Clear-Channel'

6070khz Shortwave

and you can listen via your RealPlayer at:

www.cfrb.com/cfrb.ram


To call the program 'live', dial:

On-Air    416-872-1010
          1-800-561-CFRB [all over North America]
          *TALK [local mobiles]


ebk







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   Mar > Mar 7

                        Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:39:44 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 17:17:12 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'
>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 99 12:50:40 PST

>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 00:03:53 -0500
>>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>>[List Only]

>>The review is copyrighted by the NY Times.

>>Listophiles,

>>Whenever the NY Times newspaper prints something I agree with
>>its the greatest newspaper in the world.  This week they have
>>been living up to every expectation.  Check out this review of
>>Alex Heard's new book, a book praised to the skies by Jerome
>>Clark, Larry Hatch and Jim Mortellaro during the recent thread
>>of discussion on UFO Update entitled "Apocalypse Pretty Soon".

>>I went to this authors website and perused the  material there
>>and was not impressed and neither was the NY Times as the review
>>below will demonstrate beyond the shadow of a doubt.

>Patient and gentle listfolk:

>Again, Gary Alevy's curious views -- we all recall his amusing
>effort to convict Allen Hynek of being a sinister agent on the
>basis of evidence invisible to the rest of humanity -- cause the
>head to shake and the mind to wonder at the varieties of human,
>or more precisely Alevyian, silliness.

>We are informed that I have "praised to the skies" a book I have
>never read or even seen.  (I'm betting that my partners-in-crime
>Larry Hatch and Jim Mortellaro haven't read or seen it either,
>much less dispatched hosannas heavenward.)  We are also asked to
>believe that a single review by a single reviewer is absolutely
>the last word on the book in question, establishing its
>worthlessness "beyond the shadow of a doubt."  I think we can
>safely infer that Mr. Alevy doesn't read many book reviews,
>whose judgments -- as those of us who do read reviews regularly
>(or have written books that were the subject of them) are well
>aware -- are widely various.  As often as not, a review tells us
>as much about the reviewer as the reviewed.  (As a current
>example, witness the radically disparate reviewer responses to
>Wendy Shalit's recentbook on female sexual modesty.)  We may
>safely anticipate that Alex Heard's book, like any book, will
>generate positive reviews as well as negative and mixed ones.

>Moreover, as those of us who know our literary history are
>aware, all sorts of titles that went on to become enduring
>classics were poorly received at the time of their publication.
>Perhaps the most notorious example is Melville's Moby-Dick,
>first published in 1851 to tepid or hostile reviews, soon after
>forgotten, only to be revived in the next century, to be
>recognized as one of the unarguably great American novels --
>some critics think  _the_ greatest -- of the past 150 years.

>Now, I'm not comparing Apocalypse Pretty Soon to Moby-Dick, but
>I am drawing on the common sense -- and sense of proportion --
>so conspicuously absent in Alevyian discourse.  All I know is
>that I have read many Alex Heard magazine pieces.  I think they
>are excellent.  I also like his humor, his compassion, and his
>reporter's eye.  I look forward to reading his book and making
>my own judgment on it. Of course if Gary prefers to have others
>do his thinking for him, that is his right, even if it makes me
>feel a little sorry for the dude.

>Jerry Clark

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.... you must be a tad more positive
regarding Mr. Alevy's Hearing and seeing.  For example, since
his estimation of the New York Times is on such a level as to
pronounce most copious praise, especially when it suits his own
wisdom, then, if his estimation is correct, he can save us a
great deal of time, eh?

Why even bother to read the Times, which I do daily.  Just poll
Gary and we can get all the answers.  Great time saver.  In
fact, I think I am going to do just that.  And so, I have a few
questions I would aks (I am originally from the Bronx) of Gary.

1) What time is it?

2) Are we having fun yet?

3) Are we there yet?

4) Can we stop here, I gotta go pottie?

5) When did I praise that book?

As far as the last querry is concerned, I may have been on
copious amounts of Gripple Dripple at the time I Heard the
priase, praised the Heard, the praise was Heard.  Whatever.

But I did read Moby Dick and the allegory was very definite in
my mind. Moby, the white whale, is in reality the great
Gildersleeve.  Captain Ahab, the captain, is in reality, Helen
Trent.  She's the same person that romanced the stone in
Oliver's Travels.

And the harpoon is in reality, the shaft of scorn.  Which is
what anyone deserves for miscon-screwing some else's fresh wine.
However there are two more questions, to which I require the
answer.  Long as I'm at it, why not aks...

6) How can I end this post?

7) This would not have happened if I wasn't black!

Wait, I'm Italian! Actually Sicilian, which makes my last
statement just a bit more realistic.

Gesundt
See my monograph on UFO's, Scene but not Heard.





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   Mar > Mar 7

                        Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

From: Ron Bach <roam5@utinet.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 02:00:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 17:29:16 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'


>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:08:05 -0800
>To: updates@mail.globalserve.net
>From: Alex Heard <aheard@wired.com>
>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 00:03:53 -0500
>>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>Gary Alevy's rantlet about my book seemed ... strange. I'm sorry
>he hated it so much (even though I gather he hasn't read it and
>isn't going to, but was reacting mainly to my Web site) and
>considers the NYT's review the last word on the subject ...
>Personally, I think Maureen Corrigan's observations were lame,
>needlessly grumpy, and full of certifiable errors about what I
>did and didn't say in my book. But hey, I *would* say that.


C'mon those who criticize Alex's book. I haven't read the book
yet!

Can't, cuz I'm holing up down in Asia Pacific from the
Apocalypse fear at moment and they don't sell his books out
here.

Gimme a break here pals. I haven't read Alex's book but every
time I feel gloomy, I hit the button on my bookmark that takes
me to "Alien Brothers, Come On Down" while playing 'What A
Wonderful World' by Neil Armstrong. [uh, 'Louis'?--ebk]

Even if you don't like his book for anything else, at least
enjoy for a few laughs! How dare you?!?

>More to the point here: why did he drag Jerome Clark, Larry
>Hatch, and Jim Mortellaro into this? They haven't been shilling
>for my book; they simply were nice enough to welcome me onto the
>list when I clumsily made myself known a few weeks ago with a
>"howdy" that sounded too much like a spam. (To all concerned:
>sorry about that.) Jerry Clark in particular has been generous
>with me for years, but that's basically the extent of the
>rah-rah conspiracy. He's a nice guy who likes to share what he
>knows, not some sort of bubble-headed cheerleader for me.


Alex, forgive my ignorance but how can I contact these above gents
for my thank you note?


>So Gary, if you're out there: please lighten up.

>Thanks,

>Alex Heard

>Care to discuss The End? Check out Apocalypse Pretty Soon, the
>Web site, e-mail discussion group, and book at:

>http://www.apocalypseprettysoon.com


No way Alex. The end is near. We are busy packing our guns, ammo,
food, diapers, etc. and holing up in mountains in Malaysia, Pal!

We ain't gonna rubber-neck for no pilgrim.

Kind regards to all here,

Ron Bach





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   Mar > Mar 7

                           Re: UFO Sighting Sites

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 14:57:38 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 17:38:55 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Sighting Sites


>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 23:01:25 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFO Sighting Sites
>From: Stephen MILES Lewis <elfis@io.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<snip>

>I have not heard of Mr. Tery, however I believe Paul Devereux
>once suggested that gravity maps could be useful in discovering
>geographic zones which might alter human consciousness while
>also being perhaps prone to earth lights and thus UFO reports.

Gravity anomalies, such as those mentioned by Mr. Cashman, are
irregularties in the earth's gravitomagnetic field. Indeed, all
large masses cause some such anomoly. One can only wonder if the
world's megaliths serve a greater purpose than those posed by
astronomers. It is conceivable that these stones, due to their
geometric positioning, can focus torsion fields from
interstellar locations. If these fields can indeed transmit
information at 10E9 x c, and can be modulated, the megaliths
could be used as a sort of gravitomagnetic receiver. Under these
circumstances, someone sensitive to torsion fields could
communicate with another planet in almost real time. Maybe I'll
be less skeptical of "channeleds" information. :-)

>As to the degree of quality of research in these areas, it
>seems much is difficult to access in the open literature.
>However, do visit these links for open literature sites on the
>psychoactivity of electromagnetics (and perhaps gravitics).

>http://www.elfis.net/ELFOL8/e8elfeeg1.htm

>http://www.vxm.com/bib.doc.html

Will do, thanks!

<snip>

Regards,

Terry





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   Mar > Mar 8

                            Stanley Kubrick Dead

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 16:20:20 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 18:44:45 -0500
Subject: Stanley Kubrick Dead


List,

Just heard on National Public Radio that Stanley Kubrick, the
director of 2001: A Space Odyssey, Dr. Strangelove, Clockwork
Orange and others, has died at his home in England at the age of
70.

Dennis
http://www.anomalist.com





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   Mar > Mar 9

                         Helo Terrorism & John Ford

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 12:53:15 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 07:09:26 -0500
Subject: Helo Terrorism & John Ford


>From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:10:02 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: More Helo Terrorism In Massachusetts

>>A word of warning. The recent news of helicopter/troop
>>activities in a small Texas town (reproduced within UFO Roundup)
>>are highly exaggerated and misleading, according to my
>>exMilitary Medic friend. When I forwarded him the reports he
>>checked into them himself and found that the townspeople were
>>not alarmed as had been reported.

>I did not report the Texas incidentBut it bears striking
>resemblance to the events in Lowell last night. In light of
>that, the Texas report is credible.

>I have (until this morning) viewed these reports with skepicism
>for two reasons: First, in the conspiracy-charged atmosphere we
>occupy, such reports almost seem made to order, as if we expect
>this sort of thing to happen, and there are jokers out there who
>like to say what they think some of us want to hear. Second, I
>just don't want to think it's even possible. Yet, I have
>reported precisely what saw on the news this morning, and it
>bothered me. Just wait until it happens in your neck of the
>woods. I think you'll change your tune. I reported it like I saw
>it. Folks were scared,and Lowell Massachusetts is _not_ a
>military training area.

>What makes you think an "exMilitary Medic friend" would have
>access to what the special forces are doing, particularly if
>they are training for some national security problem? Or worse?

>>His and my take on these growing number of reports is that it is
>>likely that various extremits/alarmist individuals are slanting
>>the reports to induce exactly what you are feeling, anger and
>>fear towards our own military.

>Who wouldn't feel alarmed at awaking in the middle of the night
>to the sound of dozens of Blackhawk helicopters and explosions
>in the middle of a relatively quiet city? Are we from the same
>planet?

>I slanted nothing, beyond the speculation following my report,
>and I believe my tentative conclusions are not unjustified in
>light of our military's brazen and probably illegal behavior.
>There is NO need for them to be scaring American citizens that I
>can ascertain. Can you find a logical reason for it? I'd love to
>hear it.

>>I'm not saying these fears and anger are unfounded.

>Then why attack me?

>>however I am tired of being manipulated by misinformation.

>Understandable. Yet, this happened as I reported and I am
>in contact with several people in Lowell for more information.
>What you do with the information is your own problem.

>>However, if any of these maneuvers are truly out of the
>>ordinary, then, I too fear the possibility it could be do
>>indoctrinate us for the martial law implementation you allude
>>to.

>They _are_ out of the ordinary. If it happens in my town, CNN's
>going to know about it via a lawsuit. It isn't right. We're at
>peace, last time I checked.

>>Alas, this UFO forum may not be the proper place for this
>>discussion, unless of course, we talk of it in the context of
>>continuing UFO mileu disinformation
>
>I must again disagree, based on the fact that yours is the only
>voice raised in apparent opposition to these reports. Until
>either ebk or a preponderance of the listers decide otherwise, I
>think you'll find the reports will continue.

>Greg


Greg, Errol and All,

Please forgive me for quoting the entire message, but I feel the
above message should be intact for me to say what I have to say.

Most of you may not agree with this, but remember John Ford and
what he has had to endure at the hands of the authorities in
this country.

He has been denied his rights as a human being under the
protection of the Constitution of The United States. How much
longer, based on the increased reports of Military "Exercises"
in the Middle of the Night, will it be before all of us are
treated like John Ford?

The events herein stated are not all of what has happened in
this country over the last ten to fifteen years.  These same
type of "military exercises" have occurred in large cities, such
as Pittsburg, Pennsylvania and others, where thes black troop
bearing heilos drop in in the middle of the night.  Troops storm
buildings and have disturbed the residents of these buildings,
and each time it is just an exercise to prepare for "terrorist"
activities, should they arise in this country.

The American Peoples have been conditioned by TV programs such
as Cops and other police type programs to accept this
"paramilitary" type activity. We complain and others chastise us
for complaining, on the grounds that we are paranoid and that
these exercises are necessary to maintain a strong and vital
military and special forces force...

This country has had a standing army since the liberation from
England.  It has fought to establish its borders with Mexico and
negotiated the others with Canada.  Our history was a bloody
one, but eventually we as a Soverign Nation managed to establish
and maintain a nation, A Republic, if you will, which set the
tone for the rest of the political systems around the world to
use as an example of Human Rights and Freedom.

Now, we are witnessing with increasing intensity and frequency
the invasion of our privacy during the night hours when the
majority of Americans are asleep in their beds.

They sleep with the "now mistaken" idea that they are safe and
protected by the laws which the Constitution and the Law
enforcement agencies guarantee them/US.

John Ford, in my opinion, is only the beginning of "THE
EXAMPLES" which this country is setting and which the American
people are accepting without so much as a whimper.

Who will be next, People?  YOU?  ME?  Think about what is
transpiring, not only here in this country, but on a world wide
basis before you judge so quickly that it is all simple
Millinium Paranoid.

For myself, I can only say, that I AM NOT PARANOID.

REgards, Mike

 Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
 ICQ#:7508455
 BBS: (502) 683-3026
 Fax: (502) 686-7394
 Home: (502) 683-6811
        ---





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   Mar > Mar 9

                       Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:41:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 07:13:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets



Hello List!

About three month ago a short discussion came up here about the
validity of what we had found out about Betty Hill's map some
years ago. The original thread was the discovery of a planet 35
light years away.

In a reply to Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>, it was
Christophe Meessen <meessen@cppm.in2p3.fr> who wrote on Fri, 27
Nov 1998 18:02:15 +0100:

>I would strongly recommend reconsidering the Zeta Reticuli
>interpretation of Majorie Fish in light of the more recent
>studies of Joachim Koch who suggest this map corresponds to our
>own solar system. Joachim had very pertinent arguments to
>justify this conclusion.

Then he explained to the list why he thinks so.

As a reply to this one of our leading researchers, Stan Friedman
<fsphys@brunnet.net>, to whom I respectfully send my best
wishes here, wrote on: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:54:55 -0400:

>Sorry, but Terry Dickinson and I both looked at Joachim's work
>years ago and found it not to have merit for a bunch of reasons.
>The portrayal above of the conversation with the alien is
>fictional.

>Try looking at the ZRI booklet or better yet 'The Interrupted
>Journey' by John Fuller. Marge Fish's work had also been
>carefully considered and passes muster.

With this statement there seemed to be no more room left for any
further argument.

But Christophe Meessen <meessen@cppm.in2p3.fr> dared to reply to
this "final word" on Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:24:28 +0100:

>But your argument saying you and other guys checked it and
>concluded the theory had to be rejected does not impress me by
>itself. I would like to hear some more substantial arguments
>explainign _why_ you concluded that the theory proposed by
>Joachim does not hold. Like planets position not matching
the map, etc.

>I also want to make clear that the point in question is : does
>the map represent our solar system at a given date in 1961 ? We
>are not considering the question where the map comes from, etc.
>This question should be easy to answer, no ?

As far as I could see, Christophe's reply remained unanswered
(on this list).

And exactly at that time our webpage with our "New Discoveries
in Betty Hill's Star Map" wasn't available for you for
cross-checking because Doug Girling, who helped us with the
English text, had relocated it to another provider.

But right now I am happy that I can announce that the Hill-
page is re-established under the following URL:

http://www.ufos.de/themen/abdukt/hill.htm
(Please don't change the 'k' in abdukt to 'c')

There you'll find some fine graphics (thanks to Dough) with
Betty's sketch and some with Mrs. Fish's and our results in
comparison. All data and references are given.

Stan's word was:

>"Terry Dickinson and I both looked at
>Joachim's work years ago and found it not to have merit for a
>bunch of reasons."

Well, when we came forward with our discovery, we have been
fully aware that, by the time and according to the importance of
the case, many things have already gone down the river.

The case was already investigated by well-known researchers,
their interpretations were printed, their lectures were held,
some money was earned, the controversy with the scientific world
(e.g. C. Sagan)was smoke of yesterday. Zeta Reticuli was,
according to the painstaking work of Mrs.Fish, "their" home.

But, when we re- and re-read the texts of the transcripts of
Betty's and Barney's hypnosis sessions, we found some clues
which doesn't fit the whole concept of a star map as it was
narrated by Betty and brought into the UFO and abduction history
by Mrs. Fish.

Nowhere in the text of Fuller's book is any hint that the
so-called "leader" ever intended to show her a map with his
"home". Of course, this was what Betty asked for but he showed
her a map with coloured, moving dots and invited her to show him
"...where the Earth was". We have included into our paper the
whole text of the relevant scene as it is in Fuller's book. So
the conversation with the alien is not "fictional", it is just
so as Betty recalled it.

Because of Betty's poor astronomical knowledge (at that time) he
stopped the astronomy lesson, he simply gave up with the words:
"If you don't know where you are, then there is no reason for me
to tell you where I am from." No hint for far away galaxies, no
word of distant G-type suns, , nothing of Zeta Reticuli.

In our report on the website we give the full account how we
became aware that might be a possibility that Betty might has
seen something different. And we always said: let's check the
facts, no interpretation, either it is so or not.

Mrs. Fish's assumptions, according to the MUFON proceedings of
the UFO-Symposium 1974, p. 69 to 80, given on p. 70,are just
that: assumptions, a basis for her incredible work with the
string-models during the following years. Our assumptions are
the same: just assumptions - but when you look at the context of
the whole event it seems more likely that "the leader" never
intended to show her his "home" within this 'map' but to test
her astronomical knowledge, to start with the easier items: our
planetary system.

He tried to find out if Betty could ever understand distant
worlds by asking her basic knowledge about her own "home".

To ask easy things, to give simple but understandable signs, to
calibrate knowldege - this is the beginning of every
communication. And this is what "the leader" tried to do: to
check if Betty could ever understand what she provoked with her
questions.

Could she ever find Planet Earth on a "map" from a given
vantage-point behind Zeta Reticuli? Would this be logical to ask
someone this who says that she knows practically nothing about
the stars?

Well, Stan's word weighs a lot - but the planets are much
heavier. We have found that the map has a striking similarity
with the positions of the planets and the biggest and most
remarkable asteroids which were present at that time in that
certain region. It is the planetary system around the time of
the abduction - exactly one month later. At that time Betty's
nightmares vanished.

When we started to send the first copies of our papers to some
researchers, Stanton Friedman was the first one. We attached a
copy of the pattern which we had found to the letter. This
sketch had no labels, only dots and lines and our consideration
was that someone who is familiar with Betty's pattern would
easily recognize what is was - in turn a fine verification of
our results.

But Stanton only responded angryly if we intended to conduct a
Rohrschach-Test with him. No word about the pattern. Later, we
have sent him our draft with the computer sketches, again, we
failed to get his acceptance. He made us aware of certain errors
in the time table which we corrected (thank you again) but that
was it.

Maybe this is one of his "bunch of reasons" why he does not like
to deal more intensive with our work anymore.

Stanton, you have your opinion, we have ours. We have presented
the facts - it was not Zeta Reticuli what Betty Hill had seen.

Best whishes

Joachim Koch, Berlin
Hans-Juergen Kyborg, Berlin






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 9

                        Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 15:14:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 07:17:23 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'
>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 99 12:50:40 PST

>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 00:03:53 -0500
>>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>>[List Only]

>>The review is copyrighted by the NY Times.

>>Listophiles,

>>Whenever the NY Times newspaper prints something I agree with
>>its the greatest newspaper in the world. This week they have
>>been living up to every expectation. Check out this review of
>>Alex Heard's new book, a book praised to the skies by Jerome
>>Clark, Larry Hatch and Jim Mortellaro during the recent thread
>>of discussion on UFO Update entitled "Apocalypse Pretty Soon".

>>I went to this authors website and perused the material there
>>and was not impressed and neither was the NY Times as the review
>>below will demonstrate beyond the shadow of a doubt.

>Patient and gentle listfolk:

>Again, Gary Alevy's curious views -- we all recall his amusing
>effort to convict Allen Hynek of being a sinister agent on the
>basis of evidence invisible to the rest of humanity -- cause the
>head to shake and the mind to wonder at the varieties of human,
>or more precisely Alevyian, silliness.

>We are informed that I have "praised to the skies" a book I have
>never read or even seen. (I'm betting that my partners-in-crime
>Larry Hatch and Jim Mortellaro haven't read or seen it either,
>much less dispatched hosannas heavenward.) We are also asked to
>believe that a single review by a single reviewer is absolutely
>the last word on the book in question, establishing its
>worthlessness "beyond the shadow of a doubt." I think we can
>safely infer that Mr. Alevy doesn't read many book reviews,
>whose judgments -- as those of us who do read reviews regularly
>(or have written books that were the subject of them) are well
>aware -- are widely various. As often as not, a review tells us
>as much about the reviewer as the reviewed. [ big snip -LH ]

>From Larry Hatch:

Jerry is right. I have never seen Alex Heard's book 'Apocalypse
Pretty Soon' at all. I could therefore not have commented on it,
one way or another.

I definitely liked the title however!  In three words we have a
humorous moniker for millenium madness and those associated with
it.

How about you Jim, did you see a copy yet?

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

= = =






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   Mar > Mar 9

                                MAPIT Course

From: Stephen Mera <s_mera@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:16:08 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 07:27:15 -0500
Subject: MAPIT Course


The BITC Course Details.

Constructed by the Manchester Anomalous Phenomena Investigation
Team (MAPIT).

The BITC Course consists of 60 hours, which is spread over 20
weeks. Each tutored session consists of 3 hours each. The course
is to be held at Manor High School, Manor Avenue, Ashton on
Mersey, Sale, Cheshire. The course is to start at 7.00 pm and
finish at 10.00 pm each week. The course is due to start on
March 30th 1999.


Week 1 : Syllabus Details and Information.
A general look at what the course consists of and how it will be
conducted. Also what can be obtained by passing such a course
and your entitlements.


Week 2 : How to investigate UFOs.
Classification/Identification/Categories/Documentation/Research
Methods/Priority Investigations/Interview
Technique/Investigative Skills/Concluding & Evaluating/
Statistics & Recognition.


Week 3 : How to investigate UFOs (Continued).

Environmental, Meteorological, Astronomical and Technological
IFOs (Identified Flying Objects). Contacts and the OCO
Standards.


Week 4 : How to investigate UFOs (Continued).

Unexplained Atmospheric Phenomena (UAP)/Rare Atmospheric
Phenomena (RAP)/Natural Electrical Phenomena (NEP)/Remotely
Piloted Vehicle (RPV)/Uninhabitable Aerial Vehicles
(UAV)/Unidentified Submarine Objects (USO).


Week 5 : How to investigate UFOs (Continued).

Aircraft Recognition/Swamp Gas Effects/Abduction & Interaction
Cases/Men In Black & Phantom Visitors/Temporal Lobe Epilepsy &
Associated Paralysis.


Week 6 : How to investigate UFOs (Continued).

Abductees & Contactees/Electrical Stimulation & Pylon Effects/
Secret Facilities and Experiments. Report Layout &
Documentation/Site & Field Investigation/Analysis & Research
Methods.


Week 7 : How to investigate Poltergeist Infestations.

Classifications & Categories/Related Phenomena & Enticing the
Phenomena/Trajectories & Displacement Effects/Case Studies and
Uncontrolled forms of Psychokinesis/Physical & Sexual Attacks /
Electronic Voice Phenomena/Excess Body Electricity & Equipment.


Week 8 : How to investigate Poltergeist Infestations.

Starving the Phenomena/Related Theories/Biological, Physical and
Chemical detected changes/Blanket Monitoring/Molecular
Manipulation/Environmental Studies/Possessive Activity/Entities
& Demonology.


Week 9 : How to investigate the Haunting Phenomena.

Translocational, Localised & Residual Activity/Interactive &
Non-Interactive Encounters/Apparitions & Spirits/Spiritualism &
Mediumship/Seances, Channeling, Ouija Boards & Transmeditation /
Direct Voice Phenomena (DVP).


Week 10 : How to investigate the Haunting Phenomena.

Phantoms/Phantom Aircraft/Phantom Hitchhikers/Dopplegangers &
Live Hauntings/Living Dinosaurs & Paranormal Photography /
Paranormal Video & Audio Recordings/Stone Wall Theory/Time Line
Theory & Field Energy.


Week 11 : How to investigate Extra-Sensory Perception (ESP).

The Ganzfeld Experiments/Environmental Studies &
Relationship/PSI Deprivation/ Theories & Documentation/Stimulus
& Hormones/Divination & Telepyrogenics/Retro-Cognitive
Imagery/Thoughtography & Precognition/Premonition &
Predictions/Dowsing & Divining / Pre-Birth Cognition &
Psychokinesis/Telekinesis & Telemetry / Psychometry &
Levitation.


Week 12 : How to investigate Extra-Sensory Perception (ESP) (Continued).

Experiments & Documentation/Standards &
Rationalising/Clairvoyance & Clairaudience/Clairguscience &
Asthenasthesia/Scying & Geomancy / Chiromancy &
Tasseography/Telepathy & Empathy/Cartomancy &
Astragalomancy/Tarots & Crystals/Bibliomancy & Rapport Telepathy
/ Crisis Apparitions & Combustion.


Week 13 : Folk Tales and Strange Gentry Experiences.

Fairy Encounters/Gentry & Dwarves/Fairy Rings & Crop Circles /
Depressed Areas & Ground Markings/Interdimensional
Encounters/Time Travel/Time Slips/Time Lapse & Displacement
Effects / Disappearances & Spontaneous Appearances/Earth Quake
Lights & Earth Light Phenomena/Geo-Physical Release Points &
Natural ELP/Plasma Effects & Balls of Light.


Week 14 : Astronomical Data.

Planetary Information/Natural & Unnatural Satellites/Meteors,
Meteroids & Meteorites/Asteroids & Comets/Cassini Division & The
Drake Equation/Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence
(SETI)/The Mystery of Mars & Pheobos/Stars & Black Holes/Solar
Systems & Galaxies/Sol & Lunar Conditions.


Week 15 : Astronomical Data (Continued).

Statistics & Analysis/Lunar Phases & Effects/Astronomical UFO
Encounters/Government Conspiracies/Eclipses & Ancient References
/ Ancient Astronauts & Information/Northern & Southern Lights /
Asteriod Belt & The Prandell Theory of Lift.


Week 16 : Anomalous Phenomena.

Spontaneous Human Combustion/Self Induced Spontaneous Physical
Marking/Stigmata/Firewalking & Hook Hanging/Astral Projection /
Remote Viewing/Out of Body Experiences/Near Death Experiences/Oz
Factor & Umbrella of Perception Encounters/Extra-Terrestrial
Biological Entities & ETH.


Week 17 : Investigation Technique.

Interviewing/Report Layout/Statistics & Comments/Site
Photography/Audio & Video Documentation/Vigils & Blanket
Monitoring/Equipment Us e & Electro Magnetic Fields/Evaluation &
Conclusion/Data Protection & Confidentiality Assurance.


Week 18 : Anomalous Phenomena 2.

Occult & Witchcraft/Wicca, Pagan, & Satanism/Spellcasting &
Orgon / Black & White Magic/Curses & Voodoo/Visions &
Hoodoo/Miracles & Oddities/Possession & Dermography/Multiple
Personalities & Related Illnesses.


Week 19 : Anomalous Phenomena 3.

Data Base Layout/Case Studies/Investigation Teamwork/Contacts &
Acronyms/Policies & Code of Conducts/Aims & Conditions/Ethics &
Professionalism/Media Work & Assistance/Liasing & Further
Research Methods/Hypnosis/Parapsychology/Sleep Format/Perception
& Cognition/Derma Optical Cuntaneous Perception.


Week 20: General Overview.

A general look at the last 19 weeks of the course. Coverage of
Queries & Related Topics. Questionnaire and report forms.
Information packs and further details.


At the end of week 20 you will be given an exam, which is 100
questions on related topics we have covered in the course. No
question should be asked that we have not already covered.

A Pass rate of 75% is required. Only 2% of our student fail the
course and this is usually due to their poor attendance. You=92ll
take the exam away with you and should complete the questions
and send it to the MAPIT head office within four weeks of it
being given. On passing, student=92s will be given a certificate
and information sheet. You will also have the opportunity to
take part in active investigations currently on-going.

The course is of A/E standards qualification and recognised
within several UK organisations. Also the course is interactive
and fun, with video & audio, photographs and slide
presentations.

The course costs just =A330.00 which will go towards the payment
of the room and paperwork. No other charges are asked as we are
a none profit organisation.

If interested, please Telephone the Head Tutor as soon as
possible or E-mail, so to reserve your place. We can only take
35 students at any one time, so please, do not hesitate in
booking your place.

Head Tutor: Stephen Mera
24 Hour Telephone  0161 374 2978.

Please ring if any queries.....

Many Thanks.......
E-Mail : s_mera@yahoo.com
Web Page : http://www.maxpages.com/mapit/home

Please do not delay as positions are quickly being taken.

Stephen Mera










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   Mar > Mar 9

                Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 19:50:03 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 07:37:17 -0500
Subject: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed


Secret Government Technology
by Edgar Rothschild Fouche�
Copyright 1998, Fouche Media Associates
http://fouchemedia.com/arap/speech.htm


     Presentation By Edgar Rothschild Fouche

     International UFO Congress

       Laughlin, Nevada 1998


 SLIDES: {1/Alien Head until I start then> {2/Presented by slide

GOOD AFTERNOON: 2 August /0030

My mother once told me that I was going to Hell if I didn�t
change my ways. Judging from the heat outside, I�d say I�m not
too far from there.

SLIDES: {3/AF Thunderbird Aircraft, {4/Flags at Randolph AFB

My name is Edgar Rothschild Fouche.

SLIDE 5: MJ-12 Cover

I�m here to speak about Secret Government Technology, reverse
engineering of Alien Artifacts, and the Top Secret MJ-12
committee, which I write about in my new book, Alien Rapture -
The Chosen, with my co-author Brad Steiger. Brad is the author
of 143 published works including the Best Seller Project
Bluebook.

SLIDE 6: TR-3B

Before I�m through, you will know exactly what the Flying
Triangle is. The one that has been sighted around the world. It
is the world�s most exotic and classified aerospace vehicle. It
could be stealth-ily huv-er-ing somewhere over Phoenix -
Arizona, Gulf Breeze - Florida, the country of Belgium, or your
city. I�ll show you pictures of Air Force aircraft I�ve worked,
declassified aircraft, and pictures of classified aircraft never
before seen in public. I�ll also explain how we came upon this
technology. ....

(see website for complete transcript)
http://fouchemedia.com/arap/speech.htm

...

SLIDE 69: TR-3B

Finally, I�ve saved the best 4 last. The Operational
model of the TR-3B.

A friend said, he would never forget the sight of the alien
looking TR-3B based at Papoose. The pitch black, triangular
shaped TR-3B was rarely mentioned--and then, only in hushed
whispers--at the Groom Lake facility where he worked. The craft
had flown over the Groom Lake runway in complete silence and
magically stopped above Area S-4. It hovered silently in the
same position, for some 10 minutes, before gently settling
vertically to the tarmac. At times a corona of silver blue light
glowed around the circumference of the massive TR-3B. The
operational model is 600 feet across.

SLIDE 70: TR-3B

The TR-3B is Code named Astra. The tactical
reconnaissance TR-3B first operational flight was in the early
90s.

The triangular shaped nuclear powered aerospace platform was
developed under the Top Secret, Aurora Program with SDI and
black budget monies. At least 3 of the billion dollar plus
TR-3Bs were flying by 1994. The Aurora is the most classified
aerospace development program in existence. The TR-3B is the
most exotic vehicle created by the Aurora Program. It is funded
and operationally tasked by the National Reconnaissance Office,
the NSA, and the CIA. The TR-3B flying triangle is not fiction
and was built with technology available in the mid 80s.

Not every UFO spotted is one of theirs.

SLIDE 71: TR-3B

The TR-3B vehicle�s outer coating is reactive to electrical

Radar stimulation and can change reflectiveness, radar
absorptiveness, and color. This polymer skin, when used in
conjunction with the TR-3Bs Electronic Counter Measures and,
ECCM, can make the vehicle look like a small aircraft, or a
flying cylinder--or even trick radar receivers into falsely
detecting a variety of aircraft, no aircraft, or several
aircraft at various locations.

SLIDE 72: TR-3B Schematic diagram

A circular, plasma filled accelerator ring called the Magnetic
Field Disrupter, surrounds the rotatable crew compartment and is
far ahead of any imaginable technology.

Sandia and Livermore laboratories developed the reverse
engineered MFD technology. The government will go to any lengths
to protect this technology. The plasma, mercury based, is
pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a temperature of 150
degrees Kelvin and accelerated to 50,000 rpm to create a
super-conductive plasma with the resulting gravity disruption.

The MFD generates a magnetic vortex field, which disrupts or
neutralizes the effects of gravity on mass within proximity, by
89 percent. Do not misunderstand. This is not antigravity.
Anti-gravity provides a repulsive force that can be used for
propulsion.

The MFD creates a disruption of the Earth's gravitational field
upon the mass within the circular accelerator. The mass of the
circular accelerator and all mass within the accelerator, such
as the crew capsule, avionics, MFD systems, fuels, crew
environmental systems, and the nuclear reactor, are reduced by
89%.

This causes the effect of making the vehicle extremely light and
able to outperform and outmaneuver any craft yet
constructed--except, of course, those UFOs we did not build. The
TR-3B is a high altitude, stealth, reconnaissance platform with
an indefinite loiter time. Once you get it up there at speed, it
doesn�t take much propulsion to maintain altitude.

At Groom Lake their have been whispered Rumors of a new element
that acts as a catalyst to the plasma.

With the vehicle mass reduced by 89%, the craft can travel at
Mach 9, vertically or horizontally. My sources say the
performance is limited only the stresses that the human pilots
can endure. Which is a lot, really, considering along with the
89% reduction in mass, the G forces are also reduced by 89%.

The TR-3Bs propulsion is provided by 3 multimode thrusters
mounted at each bottom corner of the triangular platform. The
TR-3 is a sub-Mach 9 vehicle until it reaches altitudes above
l20,000 feet--then God knows how fast it can go!

The 3 multimode rocket engines mounted under each corner of the
craft use hydrogen or methane and oxygen as a propellent.

In a liquid oxygen/hydrogen rocket system, 85% of the propellent
mass is oxygen. The nuclear thermal rocket engine uses a
hydrogen propellent, augmented with oxygen for additional
thrust. The reactor heats the liquid hydrogen and injects liquid
oxygen in the supersonic nozzle, so that the hydrogen burns
concurrently in the liquid oxygen afterburner.

SLIDE 73: TR-3B

The multimode propulsion system can; operate in the atmosphere,
with thrust provided by the nuclear reactor, in the upper
atmosphere, with hydrogen propulsion, and in orbit, with the
combined hydrogen\ oxygen propulsion. What you have to remember
is, that the 3 rocket engines only have to propel 11 percent of
the mass of the Top Secret TR-3B. The engines are reportedly
built by Rockwell.

SLIDE 74: C-130

The original picture of the TR-3B was taken with a digital
camera that was carried onto a black - special operations C-130.
An Air Force Special Operations sergeant took the picture while
The C-130, was flying mission support for the TR-3B. The current
picture, a computer graphic representation, was created from the
sergeant�s digital picture using 3D studio. This picture hangs
on the wall in the black vault, at the Aurora Program Office.
I�m not at liberty to say where I got these other pictures of
the TR-3B.

SLIDE 75: TR-3B Original

>From the evolution of exotic materials, advanced avionics, and
newer propulsion engines the stealth aircraft were born. Leaps
in technology have been obtained with reverse engineering of
Alien Artifacts as described in the newly released MJ-12 Revised
Charter,

signed during the Regan administration.

According to Jerald�s account, the technology developed at
Papoose far exceeded any known within the world scientific
community. Technology that we can assuredly assume was
developed, from reverse engineering of recovered alien
artifacts.

The control of all Alien Artifacts; the research, the reverse
engineering, and analysis of the extraterrestrial biological
entities (EBEs) has been transferred to the super-secret
laboratory called the Defense Advanced Research Center or DARC.

SLIDE 76: TR-3B 600 feet wide Operational Model

Many sightings of triangular UFOs are not alien vehicles but the
top secret TR-3B. The NSA, NRO, CIA, and USAF have been playing
a shell game with aircraft nomenclature - creating the TR-3,
modified to the TR-3A, the TR-3B, and the Teir 2, 3, and 4, with
suffixes like Plus or Minus added on to confuse further the fact
that each of these designators is a different aircraft and not
the same aerospace vehicle.

A TR-3B is as different from a TR-3A as a banana is from a
grape. Some of these vehicles are manned and others are
unmanned.

SLIDE 77: Strange picture of aircraft with pilot�s head in open.

Before Jerald died, we had a long conversation. He was sure he
had documentation that would prove the existence of the MJ-12
committee and our using crashed alien vehicles to reverse
engineer their technology.

I also believe, the recently deceased Colonel Corso, who
discloses the governments involvement with alien technology, was
a honest and honorable man.

Now, with the remaining time I have, I�m going to run through
some of the new MJ-12 documents I received via my friend Dale
who I�ve known and trusted for almost 30 years. His father, who
worked high up in the NSA for over 20 years acquired these
documents. I believe these documents are real.

Many of the names and Dates were blanked out when I received
them. The complete documents are attached to Brad Steiger�s and
my book, Alien Rapture - The Chosen. It is written as a fiction
story with characters on a quest, to uncover the truth, much
like the one my five friends and I started out on. I�ve just
barely scratched the surface of the details and facts presented
in Alien Rapture.

What�s really strange many people can believe in an alien
triangle, but not one built and flown by the US department of
defense.

____________________________________

Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News:
UFOSEEK... For the Source! http://www.ufoseek.org





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   Mar > Mar 9

                 Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' and Heard for

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:14:26 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 07:49:40 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon' and Heard for


>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:08:05 -0800
>To: updates@mail.globalserve.net
>From: Alex Heard <aheard@wired.com>
>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 00:03:53 -0500
>>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>Gary Alevy's rantlet about my book seemed ... strange. I'm sorry
>he hated it so much (even though I gather he hasn't read it and
>isn't going to, but was reacting mainly to my Web site) and
>considers the NYT's review the last word on the subject ...
>Personally, I think Maureen Corrigan's observations were lame,
>needlessly grumpy, and full of certifiable errors about what I
>did and didn't say in my book. But hey, I *would* say that.

>More to the point here: why did he drag Jerome Clark, Larry
>Hatch, and Jim Mortellaro into this? They haven't been shilling
>for my book; they simply were nice enough to welcome me onto the
>list when I clumsily made myself known a few weeks ago with a
>"howdy" that sounded too much like a spam. (To all concerned:
>sorry about that.) Jerry Clark in particular has been generous
>with me for years, but that's basically the extent of the
>rah-rah conspiracy. He's a nice guy who likes to share what he
>knows, not some sort of bubble-headed cheerleader for me.

Whoa, Massa Heard... comon, pal, fess up.  At least admit that
the vicious triumvirate of Clark, Mortellaro and Hatch is
supporting your candidacy for Apocalyptic President.  Heck, we
can't think of any one person more suited to president after the
apocalypse than you.

Except maybe Maureen Corrigan.  Anybody know what she looks
like?

As for your book.  If you can get us on the comp list, we
promise to read it and review it right here on UPDATES, much to
the (expected) dismay of EBK, I am certain.  Just send three
copies to the Canal Street UFO Lawyer, c/o my brother in law.
He works for the postal service.  The words "work" and "service"
are purely vindictive.

Heard for President, Clark for UFO Catcher, Hatch for
Commissioner of Music and Dance and Mortellaro for, uh....
for... I got it!  Prince Muchabelli in charge of alchohol,
tobacco and firearms; with portfolio!

Gesundt






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                        Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 00:17:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 07:56:21 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'


>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:08:05 -0800
>To: updates@mail.globalserve.net
>From: Alex Heard <aheard@wired.com>
>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 00:03:53 -0500
>>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>Gary Alevy's rantlet about my book seemed ... strange. I'm sorry
>he hated it so much (even though I gather he hasn't read it and
>isn't going to, but was reacting mainly to my Web site) and
>considers the NYT's review the last word on the subject ...
>Personally, I think Maureen Corrigan's observations were lame,
>needlessly grumpy, and full of certifiable errors about what I
>did and didn't say in my book. But hey, I *would* say that.

Well Alex your reporter instincts missed here. I did read your
entire website and then skimmed sections of the book and then
exercised my perogative not to purchase it.

By the way I am a Wired subscriber and have enjoyed much of your
writing in the past but this book didn't meet my expectations.

>More to the point here: why did he drag Jerome Clark, Larry
>Hatch, and Jim Mortellaro into this? They haven't been shilling
>for my book; they simply were nice enough to welcome me onto the
>list when I clumsily made myself known a few weeks ago with a
>"howdy" that sounded too much like a spam. (To all concerned:
>sorry about that.) Jerry Clark in particular has been generous
>with me for years, but that's basically the extent of the
>rah-rah conspiracy. He's a nice guy who likes to share what he
>knows, not some sort of bubble-headed cheerleader for me.

Alex you are right on the point here because that is just the
impression I got in reading the posts that the four of you put
up. That Clark, Hatch and Mortellaro were shilling for you.

>So Gary, if you're out there: please lighten up.


>Thanks,
>
>Alex Heard

>Care to discuss The End? Check out Apocalypse Pretty Soon, the
>Web site, e-mail discussion group, and book at:
>
>http://www.apocalypseprettysoon.com

Nice execution of 90's marketing Alex.

Lightly,






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                        Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

From: Ron Bach <roam5@utinet.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 13:34:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 08:29:01 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'


>Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 02:00:33 -0700
>From: Ron Bach <roam5@utinet.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'


>C'mon those who criticize Alex's book. I haven't read the book
>yet!

>Can't, cuz I'm holing up down in Asia Pacific from the
>Apocalypse fear at moment and they don't sell his books out
>here.

>Gimme a break here pals. I haven't read Alex's book but every
>time I feel gloomy, I hit the button on my bookmark that takes
>me to "Alien Brothers, Come On Down" while playing 'What A
>Wonderful World' by Neil Armstrong. [uh, 'Louis'?--ebk]


Nope Errol, the one I've got here says it's from Neil. They even
have a picture of this singer boxed up in some kind of white
robe with glasses on his face?!?

Oh, well...maybe this one's pirated too. Never mind...

Kind regards to all






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   Mar > Mar 9

                     'Sensational' Anti-Matter Discovery

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 07:03:59 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 08:31:05 -0500
Subject: 'Sensational' Anti-Matter Discovery


Source:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/sci/tech/newsid_291
000/291299.stm

Stig

***

BBC News Online: Sci/Tech

Friday, March 5, 1999 Published at 18:47 GMT

'Sensational' anti-matter discovery

By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse

**

The reason we are all made of matter and not anti-matter may
have been discovered.

The latest results from a particle accelerator near Chicago
suggest that matter and anti-matter are not after all identical
"mirror images" of one another.

This could explain why all the anti-matter that existed at the
Big Bang has disappeared.

The scientists are said to be "shocked" at the size of the
effect they have seen.

"It's a most astonishing result," said Professor Val Fitch of
Princeton University. "It is quite unexpected and very, very
interesting."

The new discovery made by scientists in the United States and
Japan has given them a glimpse of the fundamental way in which
the universe is made.

It shows that the Universe is a very perplexing place when
viewed at the sub-atomic scale. And it may explain why we are
here at all.


Mirror image


Scientists believe that, in many ways, anti-matter is the
mirror-image of ordinary matter only with opposite electrical
charges. But the puzzle is that there is almost no anti-matter
in our Universe.

Across the length and breadth of the cosmos, anti-matter only
turns up in minute quantities in very special circumstances.

At the beginning of the Universe, the Big Bang, scientists
believe that there were equal amounts of matter and anti-matter.
But in the Universe's earliest moments something happened to
cause most of the anti-matter to disappear.

Finding out if anti-matter is slightly different to matter could
explain why it disappeared. And that is what the recent
experiments seem to have done.


Tantalising results


They were carried out at Fermilab, a sub-atomic particle
accelerator facility near Chicago, US. The scientists looked at
the behaviour of sub-atomic particles called B-mesons and have
cautiously reported finding "tantalising" results that show that
matter and anti-matter do not obey the same laws of physics.

The phenomenon they think they spotted is technically called
direct Charge-Parity (CP) violation. It means that particles
behave differently if you swap matter for anti-matter and also
swap left and right.

Physicists say that this "asymmetry" would have been important
during the first moments of the Big Bang and may have resulted
in almost all anti-matter being destroyed.

The observation of direct CP violation is an exciting one for
physicists as it disagrees with all the currently held theories
about the nature of matter.

"It's just sensational," said Professor James Cronin who
received a Nobel prize for a related discovery in 1964.


Complexity revealed


He showed that K-mesons made from ordinary matter did not behave
exactly like those made of anti-matter. But the latest
experiments show a much stronger effect and more of the
underlying complexity.

Earlier this century, scientists predicted and then made
microscopic amounts of anti-matter. They realised that matter
and anti-matter together results in annihilation in a flash of
energy.

If anti-matter had not vanished from our universe, then it is
possible that all the cosmos would now consist of nothing but
radiation, with no matter at all.

More Fermilab experiments and calculations are planned to see if
the new observations can be understood. In the meantime, if you
want to know why we are here, it is all about the difference
between left and right - just look in a mirror.


Relevant Stories:

*Does it matter?  (31 Jul 98 - Sci/Tech)
*Ghostly particles rule the universe  (05 Jun 98 -
 Sci/Tech)
*Recreating the big bang  (29 May 98 - Sci/Tech)


Internet Links:

*Fermilab


The BBC is not responsible for the content of
external internet sites.






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   Mar > Mar 9

                         Re: Trent and Rouen Images

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:11:26 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 08:57:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:53:47 EST
>Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 22:18:22 -0500
>Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images

<snip>

>These are various features that would have to distorted to go
>from a Trent to a Rouen:

>1.  Width of the rim relative to the main body
>2.  Pointedness of rim
>3.  Bottom arc of rim
>4.  Length of the tower on top

<snip>

[In order to:]

>1.  _Improve_ the clarity of the image and smoothness of the
>    edges, particular the tower with bulb on top

>.2.  _Reverse_ the shading of the object

>3.  Bring in some overhead illumination and show a little of the
>    object's top.

>That's a pretty neat bunch of tricks.  How exactly does one do
>it?

<snip>

>A...model ... would only make the job of reproducing an object
>similar to Trent infinitely easier than all of the above:  Spend
>an hour ortwo making the model; reshoot the picture; go home.

Dave and List:

Thanks for the specifics. I agree, a model would have been much
easier.

Bob Young





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                       UK Hoax - New Disturbing Facts

From: "Lynda Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:22:36 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:08:05 -0500
Subject: UK Hoax - New Disturbing Facts


Read this - and weep......


Dear All,

It is with regret that I am able to now release new details of
the Cheshire "UFO Landing" hoax perpetrated against the British
UFO Studies Centre, and exposed within two days, by two
desperate and initially believable characters going under the
names "Caroline Sutton" and "Graham Wenham" from Sefton and
Northampton respectively.

This is a most unusual story and readers should try and bear
with it. Of course we are happy to furnish further details where
we can.

UpDates readers will know that last week we posted, in good
faith, information on a reported 'landing and trace case'
reported by the two people mentioned above. Initially their
story - that they had been lucky enough to witness the descent
and landing of several "UFOs" in an area of land bordering upon
the Tatton Country Park outside Knutsford, Cheshire - seemed
reasonably believable in that we had no reason to doubt their
sincerity at that stage.

We fully recognized that a great deal of further investigation
would be necessary and as a result we got a team of eight
investigators to start work. Our view - and one to which we
still subscribe - is that remarkable claims require remarkable
evidence to back them up. Moreover, if "UFOs", or any object,
had 'descended' and 'landed' on Sunday night/Monday morning 28th
Feb/1st March in Knutsford then numerous other people would have
seen these and either the local media, local Police or other UFO
groups would have received some reports, however vague.

This had not happened by the middle of last week despite the
fact that "Sutton" and "Wenham" had gone straight to the local
paper, the Knutsford Guardian, and a detailed and lengthy report
had been published in the Wednesday edition.

On Tuesday night 2nd March, during a meeting of the British UFO
Studies Centre in Stockton Heath, Warrington, we received a
pager message from "Wenham" claiming that the lights were back
and that we should immediately come over to the area. Irene Dale
and Sarah Cardwell of BUFOSC drove straight down and met the
couple and did see some lights in the sky - but that was all.
These may well have been aircraft lights; the area in question
is on the outer limits of the Manchester International TMA.

From the earliest moments of this investigation Eric Morris
directed the team to get as much sample evidence from the
claimed scene of the "landing" - an open area some 300 yards
from the Royal George Hotel (where the two "witnesses" were
staying in the same room) known as Dog Wood. We discovered a
flattened area of some 60 metres, some evidence of burning and
various dead creatures etc. The area in question did seem a
little disturbed even if this fact provided no link whatsoever
with a "UFO".

What is more, it later emerged that the pair of conspirators had
not been able to pinpoint the sighting.

Moving into Wednesday and having read through a lengthy
statement from "Sutton" which described the landing of some nine
(9) objects on the night in question, BUFOSC had made serious
efforts to contact other local groups, BUFORA Director of
Investigations Gloria Dixon (whose office has become a clearing
house for many sightings in recent years) and well-known
author-researcher Jenny Randles who receives numerous Northern
UFO reports.


They had heard nothing. We checked again with the local papers.
Nothing.

Under these circumstances we re-checked with the "witnesses" and
invited them around to Eric Morris' house in Greenall Rd,
Northwich for a chat. Upon arrival the pair seemed very nervous,
perhaps  understandably, and didn't like being asked searching
questions about the sighting. "Sutton" and "Wenham" seemed very
furtive and also asked to have a look at Eric's computer. They
also had a private conference in the back kitchen and
furthermore made strong hints that they wanted BUFOSC to pay
their =A340 phone bill which they claimed to have run up as a
result of their sighting (!). "Wenham" seemed over-concerned
about money and despite the fact that both of them claimed to
have full-time jobs, "Sutton" at a company in Southport and
"Wenham" at an engineering firm in Northampton, BUFOSC
investigators were a little concerned about this and decided to
check out other parts of their story.

Remarkably enough, and totally coincidentally, we discovered
that a Caroline Sutton had written two books, one entitled
"Scientific Hoaxes" referred to on a Chicago Academy of Sciences
web page (www.chias.org). More remarkably "Sutton's" nickname is
supposedly "Chias" and her home ansaphone message claims that
she is "in my box, up to some jiggery-pokery". It should also be
pointed out that debunkers CSICOP are mentioned on the same page
as the Caroline Sutton book but of course this can be nothing
more than another strange coincidence........

We approached the hotel staff at the Royal George, Knutsford,
and learned that the pair had been staying in the same =A366 a
night room and had indeed run up a very large phone bill. Over
the weekend we received a detailed copy of the phone bill from a
source at the Hotel and learned many interesting things
including;

1 - During their supposed sighting which they describe in the
Knutsford Guardian as "mesmerizing" and "mysterious" they in
fact made FOUR transatlantic phone calls to Appleton City,
Missouri. The number began 001-573 and we spoke to a man on that
number claiming to be Mike Roth. He said he'd never heard of
either "Sutton" and "Wenham" although his answers seemed very
guarded.

2 - They made several phone calls to the 'Daily Mirror' and
'Daily Sport' newspapers.

3 - They phoned a number in Ireland. We're not sure who -
yet.....

4 - They phoned several other people in Glasgow and Manchester.

5 - They also booked further weekend breaks with Hotel owners
Scottish and Newcastle Inns.

What is more, hotel staff told us that the couple had asked what
would happen if they left without paying!

There were major problems with the sighting in that there were
no aerial exercises taking place that night (we checked with the
MOD and also the NOTAMS for the night). "Sutton" claimed that
they had been laying in bed together smoking cigars (!) and had
seen the "UFOs" through their bedroom window. A cursory
examination of this claim indicated that they were not telling
the truth. "Sutton" also claimed that the night had been
particularly clear and bright and yet Eric Morris and a
colleague had been trying to video civilian airliners in the
area at the time and couldn't do so because of the low cloud
base. He was less than two miles from the Royal George in
Knutsford.....

"Wenham" was heard by three BUFOSC members to say that Eric was
a "loony". This happened when the pair invited BUFOSC to visit
them in their room on Thursday night. They went to the Hotel but
were not allowed into the room. One can only wonder why......

On a more disturbing note, "Wenham", in a long chat with Eric
Morris, claimed to be a long-time football hooligan and extreme
right-winger with links to many racist gangs at Chelsea and
Millwall Football Clubs. He claimed to have been instrumental in
the violence that marred the recent Manchester City vs. Millwall
match during which 1500 thugs battled with each other and Police
during the match. Although "Wenham", at a spindly 5' 8'', can
hardly be described as an 'Aryan hero', he made several racist
comments and expressed an interest in meeting well-known
anti-fascist Tim Matthews, author of "UFO Revelation" and Press
Officer for BUFOSC. Both "Wenham" and "Sutton" expressed their
dismay that Matthews was away on business during the affair -
even though he assisted as far as possible.

"Wenham", who claims to come from Kingsthorpe in Northampton, an
area well-know for racist activity, drives a White Sierra
registration number G865 TKK. He claims to work for a small
company there but nobody at the number given has ever heard of
him......even though it is the company he claimed to work
for.......

Tim Matthews phoned Sutton and was lucky enough to find her in
on Friday night. He asked her several difficult questions and
she made several interesting - and evasive - comments. She
claimed to have moved to Southport with her parents in 1997
having previously been known as "Caroline Bradley" before her
"marriage in 1998". Oddly enough she wore no wedding ring and in
any case was clearly shacking up with "Wenham"!! She also
claimed to hail (no pun intended) from Northampton despite
having a Northern accent!! She further claimed that they had
"forgotten" to pay all the bills at the Hotel - as you do - and
that this was simply a "UFO sighting" gone awry. She made
various derogatory remarks about Eric Morris and claimed to have
tape-recorded his earlier phone calls to her. She further
claimed to have reported him to the Police - for some reason.

As you may have independently concluded all is not well and
although it might be easy for us to come to all kinds of
conclusions ourselves we will leave that to the reader,
"Wenhams'" right-wing links should certainly be called into
question but there seems little doubt that these two had a
hidden agenda from the start.

Active UK UFO researchers, the few that there are, should dearly
like to get on with investigations but recently have been
hampered by a procession of lunatics attached to the fringes of
this fringe subject and by numerous hoaxers. What is more, this
unfortunate series of events comes against a background of
proven phone tapping and mail interception campaigns waged
against - for example - researchers in Kent looking into the
"Burmarsh Triangle" incident of March 1997. We too have suffered
similar problems.

If Ufology is a subject of little or no concern to outside
parties, or those with the ability to hoax, intercept and tap,
then one wonders why these things continue to happen.

We will make photographs of the odd couple available within the
next few days....

British UFO Studies Centre, March 9th 1999.

matthews@zetnet.co.uk bufosc@compuserve.com

British UFO Studies Centre, 78 Greenall Rd, Northwich, Cheshire
CW9 5RN.







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                    The Millennium Report - March 8, 1999

From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:21:50 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:12:17 -0500
Subject: The Millennium Report - March 8, 1999


The Millennium Report
The News Service of The Millennium Project
(E-Mail Summary Edition)

March 8, 1999


In This Edition:

Research Assistance, Next Fields of Dreams
Crop Circle Lecture, Y2K, Contrail and Radar
Anomaly Updates, Life on Mars, The Heiroglyphs
of Abydos and Ancient Aircraft, Roswell Smoking
Gun (?) and Other UFO News, CFS and Alien
Abductions, Hale-Bopp Redux, Hijacked Satellite,
Unofficial Cyclon


Editor:
Paul Anderson

_____________________________


RESEARCH ASSISTANCE

* Research Assistance Positions Available with TMP


THE MILLENNIUM FORUM

* Next Fields of Dreams Crop Circle Lecture
   on March 22 in Vancouver, BC


SPECIAL RESEARCH PROJECTS

* Y2K: Secret Y2K Bunker Under Los Angeles,
   Educating America's Masses
* Contrails: New Reports from Kansas, New Mexico
* Contrails: New Links
* Radar Anomalies: New Anomaly in Nevada


NEWS AND REPORTS

* New Claims about Life on Mars to be Made by US
   Scientists
* The Mysterious Heiroglyphs of Abydos
* Ancient Aircraft?
* Roswell - Smoking Gun Found?
* Swissair Pilot Reports Near Collision with "UFO"
* UFO Photo Taken by Meteosat-3 Satellite
* 1998 Canadian UFO Survey
* UFO Roundup 4.10 - March 8, 1999
* Filer's Files #9 - March 4, 199
* Connection Between Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and
   Alien Abductions?
* Comet Hale-Bopp Updates: New Evidence of a (Natural)
   Companion?
* Overview of ESO Hale-Bopp Conference '98:
   Evidence of a Possible Companion from the European
   Southern Observatory
* Hackers Seize British Military Satellite
* A Cyclone, Unacknowledged by Officialdom, Hits
   Northwest

_____________________________


See the TMP web site for the web edition of TMR, with
links to current news and reports and an archive of previous
news, as well as information on Special Research Projects
and other TMP resources:

Main TMP Web Site (frames):
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

The Millennium Report:
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/tmr.html

Special Research Projects:
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/srp.html

_____________________________


The Millennium Report is the news service of The
Millennium Project, an independent research organization
initiated in January 1999 as an alternative source of news
and information to the maintream media. TMP was founded
by future studies researcher Paul Anderson, also director of
Circles Phenomenon Research Canada.

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=A9 The Millennium Project, 1999







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 9

                        Hoagland Suffers Heart Attack

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:18:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:18:26 -0500
Subject: Hoagland Suffers Heart Attack





Source: Jeff Rense's 'Sightings'

http://www.sightings.com/ufo2/heartattack2.htm


Hoagland Suffers Heart Attack

3-9-99

All at Sightings wish Mr. Hoagland a full and speedy recovery
and look forward to his being able to respond, in due course, to
the serious issues that have been raised by a number of other
outstanding researchers and academic professionals.

___________

Word was received over the internet on Monday, 3-8-99, that
Richard Hoagland reportedly suffered a serious heart attack
while with friends in Florida on Saturday, 3-6-99. He was
reportedly taken to a hospital and then on to a cardiac facility
where his condition was said by one net source as 'critical.'

So far, there have been no formal, official medical statements
from doctors attending Mr. Hoagland that have been made
available. It is also reported that Mr. Hoagland may undergo
heart surgery as early as Tuesday morning. Medical sources state
such surgery is usually employed to address long-term blocked
coronary arteries and would likely either be in the form of
routine coronary bypass surgery or an angioplasty.





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   Mar > Mar 9

                      UFO ROUNDUP. Volume 4, Number 10

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:09:05 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:29:42 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP. Volume 4, Number 10

UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 4, Number 10
March 8, 1999
Editor: Joseph Trainor


UFO LANDS IN CHESHIRE

Between 10 p.m. on Sunday, February 28, 1999 and 3 a.m. on
Monday, March 1, residents of Knutsford, Cheshire, UK reported
seeing "anomalous lights in the area and claim to have seen a
red and white light descending very slowly...the object was said
to have behaved 'as if under intelligent control.'"

An investigative team from the British UFO Studies Centre
(BUFOSC), led by Eric Morris, visited the scene on Tuesday,
March 2, and Wednesday, March 3, 1999, and obtained physical
evidence of a UFO landing.

BUFOSC worked in tandem with the Lancashire UFO Society (LUFOS)
in the investigation.

The team found the following:

(1) "Ground traces in the form of burn marks and scorching."

(2) "An unusual patterning in the surrounding bracken suggesting
that it had been pushed down or 'squashed' by something over an
area of 60 meters (198 feet)."

(3) "Evidence of tree burns and disturbance to local wildlife."

"BUFOSC investigators have taken away soil samples and similar
evidence" from the site. The material will be analyzed in a
scientific laboratory.

On Tuesday evening, March 2, while Eric Morris was describing
the evidence to a well-attended BUFOSC meeting, the assembly
received word that the mysterious lights were once more hovering
over Knutsford.

BUFOSC investigators Irene Dale and Sarah Cardwell rushed from
the meeting and arrived in Knutsford "in time to see the lights.
Eight other members joined them for a Skywatch" later that same
evening.

Knutsford is located about 50 miles (80 kilometers) southeast of
Liverpool. (Many thanks to Tim Matthews of LUFOS for forwarding
the BUFOSC report.)

(Editor's Comment: Good job, Irene and Sarah! That's the kind of
aggressive reporting we like to see around here at UFO Roundup.)


ORANGE SPHERE UFO SEEN IN NORTH LINCOLNSHIRE

On Wednesday, February 24, 1999, at 6:30 p.m., a UFO described
as "an orange ball of light" was spotted moving slowly over the
cities of Hull and Grimsby in Lincolnshire, UK.

"Was it a plane? Was it a planet? No, it was definitely an
unidentified flying object, say local UFO spotters. An 'orange
ball of light' was reported over North Lincolnshire before
reappearing towards the southwest and moving northeast between
6:30 and 7:30 p.m. on Monday, February 22."

"Local UFO group Hangar 18 received news of several sightings
near Barton, said group researcher Amanda Gibson. Now it is
appealing to witnesses to come forward" after a similar
phenomenon "was reported Wednesday night (February 24, 1999)
over Hull and Grimsby."

"Two bright lights were seen towards the east--the opposite side
of the sky from Venus and Jupiter."

"Hangar 18's David Jackson of Raymond Road, Ashby, insisted the
sighting" was not "a case of wrongly identifying two bright
planets."

Grimsby is a city located 125 miles (200 kilometers) north of
London. (See the Scunthorpe Evening Telegram for February 26,
1999. Many thanks to Gerry Lovell of Far Shores for forwarding
the newspaper article.)


ORANGE SPHERE UFO SIGHTED IN PRETORIA, SOUTH AFRICA

On Friday, February 12, 1999, at 9 p.m., Markus Hain was riding
in a friend's police cruiser on General Louis Botha Road in
Constantia Park, a suburb just east of Pretoria, the capital of
South Africa when he noticed something strange in the sky.

"My friend is a police force member, and I was driving with him
this night, as I sometimes do when the force is understaffed,"
Markus reported. "This (General Botha) road slopes upward for a
long way, ending on a hill. As we were driving along, I noticed
a light on the eastern horizon, slightly orange in colour. Now
this is nothing out of the ordinary, but what captured my
attention is that it was travelling very fast."

Markus estimated that the UFO was about 10 degrees above the
eastern horizon. "As a commercial pilot until I moved over to
IT, I know that no aircraft is allowed to fly at that speed at
such a low altitude-- 280 knots below 14,000 feet in South
Africa. That object was moving along at about I don't know what.
No sound, no strobe or NAV (navigation--J.T.) lights."

"I immediately screamed at my friend to look up at the sky, and
he also had no idea what it was. As we drove up farther, we
briefly drove through an area where the sky was obscured by
trees, and, after passing through, we saw the object again, only
this time it had already covered a vast distance."

Later, Markus telephoned the South African Air Force at the SAAF
Waterkloof air base, located about 25 kilometers (15 miles) from
Pretoria. The SAAF reportedly told him that there had been no
sign of the mysterious object on radar. (Email Interview)


ECUFOR RELEASES REPORT ON GRAAF-REINET UFO CASE

During the past week, South Africa's Evaluation Center for UFO
Reports (ECUFOR) completed its preliminary investigation of the
Graaf-Reinet sighting during which video footage of the UFOs was
shot.

On December 27, 1998, at about 3 p.m., "the Laubscher family
observed between eight to ten objects moving rapidly in a
northerly direction over Graaf-Reinet, a small town situated in
the well-known Karroo (region) some 200 kilometers (120 miles)
north-northwest of Port Elizabeth."

"According to the witnesses' descriptions and supported to a
certain extent by the video footage, the objects appeared
somewhat roundish triangular and seemed to move in a group.
Occasionally one or two would stop and the others would circle
around them, and then they would go forward again. Their motion
repeated itself a few times. While moving, the objects were
shiny gold in colour but when stationary changed from white to
red and then to blue. The size of these objects was judged to be
roughly four to five times that of a Boeing (747 jetliner) at
the same altitude."

"The group had been in view for a few seconds when another, much
larger object travelling at very high speed in the same flight
path proceeded in a northerly direction through and past the
group. The larger object appeared gold in colour and was
basically spherical, travelled at constant speed and did not
change colour. The group of smaller objects then followed the
larger sphere as they disappeared behind some high cloud near
the horizon. According to the video footage, those clouds
appeared to be at an altitude of 25,000 to 30,000 feet." (Many
thanks to Mike Farrell and Errol Bruce-Knapp for this report.)


ANOTHER UFO SIGHTING IN SOUTHERN AUSTRALIA

Chalk up another sighting for the one-night UFO flap that took
place on Friday, February 19, 1999, in Australia.

At 9:30 p.m. that night, Darren B. "was in Sunshine, Victoria
(state), parked in the village cinema carpark having something
to eat with a friend of mine" when "I saw what I first thought
was the lights of an aeroplane coming towards us from a
northerly direction. But the lights were much larger and
brighter than those of an aeroplane. I then thought it might be
a helicopter light, but the light blinked out very quickly, and
there was no sign of any craft in the area. I got out of the
car to see if I could hear or see anything. But I couldn't. My
friend saw the same as I did, and the light was in view for
approximately 20 to 25 seconds." (Email Interview)


UFO DISABLES A CAR AND CELL PHONES IN SPAIN

On Saturday, February 20, 1999, several young men were traveling
by car on a mountain road near Alicante, Spain. "We were driving
up to my house," the witness reported, "Then, all of a sudden,
my car just went dead."

"Me and my two friends were laughing at first. But then we
noticed that both of our cellular phones were also shut down.
Also, the digital clock in the car. Everything electrical was
without live (power)."

"Then we stepped out of the car because we heard a humming
sound. We looked up and saw three lights shaped in a triangle.
The moment we saw it, it took off. All of our electrical systems
were operational again. We could use our own cell phones, the
car worked, etc."

"The weirdest thing of all is that this colossal, big
triangular-shaped object was directly above us, and we didn't
feel any (air) pressure or wind keeping the thing up there," at
about 30 meters (100 feet) above the car. (See Filer's Files #9
for 1999. Many thanks to George A. Filer, Eastern director of
MUFON, for this report.)


UFOs DOMINATE THE SKIES ALL OVER PERU

The UFO flap in Peru intensified last week with more sightings
and more videos taken in Lima and elsewhere in this ancient
South American land.

On Wednesday, March 3, 1999, for forty minutes, five glowing
silver discs flew over Lima, the capital city. Two OVNIs
(Spanish acronym for UFOs) flew off by themselves and performed
maneuvers while the remaining three darted away to the east.

Home videos taken of the overflight were broadcasted on Canal
(Channel) 2, Television Frequencia Latina following the
incident.

On Tuesday, March 2, 1999, at 6:30 p.m., two OVNIs flew over
Pucallpa, a city on the Rio Ucayali in la selva (Peru's Amazon
jungle--J.T.), located about 600 kilometers (360 miles)
northeast of Lima.

"Plenty of witnesses saw them cleave through the cloudy sky,"
Alfredo Mendiola reported. "They were bright enough to shine
through the mists. In each sector of the city, they appeared as
a bright white dot. Others reported seeing the light change
color from white to yellow, red and blue."

Home videos were aired on the local TV station in Pucallpa. "The
video showed an object in the form of a spinning and humming top
with a surrounding light (aura) and clear brown color tones.
Another showed a cone with a point coming to a rise."

"A helicopter of the Policia Aerea, which was given to Peru by
the USA to struggle against the narcotics traffic, was flying
in the zone (over Pucallpa) and tried to chase the OVNIs. But
the pilots lost radio contact with the ground, which seems
impossible because they have high frequency radios."

Last week, in Andacolla, a town of Neuquen department south of
Lima, residents watched glowing UFOs "that moved in zigzag. We
watched them cross the sky with lights in the front." And there
was "another OVNI like a great luminosity that pulsated as
well."

In Lindera, a small town 440 kilometers (264 miles) south of
Arequipa, near Peru's border with Chile, local residents were
astonished to find several crop circles in a wheat field. The
crop circles were described as "tripods," i.e. three circles
joined by straight lines. "There are sections of the circles
where the grain was squashed flat but not broken."

The strangest report came from Chilca, however, a small town 64
kilometers (40 miles) south of Lima. Residents of Chilca claim
that aliens altered the mud flats in town, giving them
miraculous healing powers.

"Marco and Erudita Alva plunged into a pool called 'the Twin
Maker' and began slapping on ink-black mud from head to toe.
They're trying to solve their fertility problem."

"Over at the 'Miracle Maker' pond, Zoila Bejar rubs slick mud
reeking of sulfur all over her body in hopes it will ease
chronic back pain."

"A lot of ailing Peruvians are turning up in Chilca, a dusty
desert town on the Pacific coast 40 miles southeast of Lima.
They came to wallow in the mud of three small ponds thought to
have healing powers."

"Mayor Ruma Nueda says, ' Lots of people claim to have seen UFOs
and strange lights in the night sky over Chilca. People here
believe in UFOs."

"Locals say that space ships come to harvest an unknown material
from the (ocean) area off Chilca's beach. The UFOs supposedly
leave behind substances that leach into the ponds and give them
curative powers."

"Townspeople cite an abundance of twins in Chilca-- more than
100 pairs in this town of 10,000, Nueda says, as proof of the
power of the 'Twin Maker' pond."

The Peruvian Ministry of Health, however, does not agree. "'Some
communities have large numbers of twins for genetic reasons or
coincidence,' said Dr. Augusto Ascenzo, head of a prominent Lima
fertility clinic."

But the people of Chilca still maintain the three ponds are
being "powered" by UFOs.

"Twins Veronica and Moncia Sanchez, whose mother regularly
bathed in the 'Twin Maker,' say many of their friends have seen
strange objects hovering over Chilca."

"'They are bright lights which form a circle and hover over the
ponds or the beach,' Veronica said." (Muchas gracias a Guillermo
Alarcon, Nestor Echarte, Alfredo Mendiola y Ignatius Graffeo
para esas historias. Tambien a Sr. Graffeo para la historia AP,
"Peruvians say aliens enchanced baths" by David Koop.)

(Editor's Note: Interestingly, Chilca is one of the oldest city
sites in Peru. Archeologists found the remains of a huaca
(pyramid) and textiles dating back to the Encanto culture of
3600 B.C. See Peru Before the Incas by Edward P. Lanning,
Prentice-Hall Inc., Englewood, New Jersey, 1967, pages 50 to
52.)


SIX UFOs SEEN BY HUNDREDS NEAR MONTERREY, MEXICO

On Sunday, February 28, 1999, Canal (Channel) 12 in the city of
Monterrey, in Coahuila state, Mexico aired home video of six
UFOs flying over the La Husteca section of the city, heading for
Las Pampas mountain.

Hundreds reportedly witnessed the overflight, which lasted
several minutes. The video showed six luminous triangular
objects flying westward in formation, with the camcorder focus
set on zoom.

Monterrey is on Camino (Highway) 40 approximately 924 kilometers
(574 miles) north of Mexico City. (Muchas gracias a Marco
Reinoso Ballesteros y Guillermo Alarcon para esa historia.)

CIGAR-SHAPED UFO HOVERS OVER A MALL IN ITALY

On Saturday, February 27, 1999, a dark, cigar- shaped object was
seen hovering above a shopping mall, the Euromercado di
Casalecchio di Reno, in Bologna, a large city 330 kilometers
(198 miles) north of Rome.

"The object revolved around its own axis and moved across the
sky with a 'falling leaf' motion. It was an object in the shape
of a cigar that rotated on its stem. It was first seen by a
woman who looked up and realized it was not a conventional
aircraft. Shortly, within five minutes, it was seen by many
other witnesses in the shopping center parking lot. It had two
lights, one on each end. One light was an eye-searing brilliant
white, the other was less bright and considerably smaller. The
object traversed three-quarters of the sky in about 10 seconds,
at a considerable velocity." (Grazie a Gianfranco Degli Esposi
di Centro Ufologici Nazionale per questo rapporto.)


UFO FLAP ERUPTS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA

On Monday, February 22, 1999, at 8:20 p.m., John B. Brons, 29, a
machinist in Lake Forest, California (population 62,685) was
outside looking at the near-conjunction of Venus and Jupiter.
When he turned away, he "saw something moving, and it wasn't an
aircraft. This was a triangular- shaped body, and actually there
were two of them. They had white lights around them."

"They were both the same. They had a red light in the middle of
them. Also, when they flew over, they made no noise. And when
they came back, they were heading from the south to the east,
and then the east to the south. And they were moving really
slow. We tried to film them with the camcorder but the tape
jammed." (Email Interview)

Lake Forest is a suburb of Los Angeles, located 40 miles (64
kilometers) southeast of City Hall.

On Tuesday, February 23, 1999, at 9:05 p.m., S. Windsor, 32,
spotted a UFO in Van Nuys, a Los Angeles suburb in the San
Fernando Valley about 17 miles (27 kilometers) west of City
Hall.

"My friend and I were standing in my driveway, when I said,
'Look! It's a shooting star!'" Mr. Windsor reported. "But it
didn't look like a shooting star. It did not have a tail or a
streak following behind it. The object, yellowish to orange in
color, seemed to pulsate--get bigger and smaller as it shot
across the horizon. It went north to south and crossed to the
horizon in about five seconds. I counted one thousand (five
times) to estimate the time it took to streak across the sky."

"My friend saw it and agrees with me that it was not a shooting
star. His wife got a glimpse of it before it vanished. The
object made no sound as it flew over... or afterward." (Email
Interview)

Also on Tuesday, February 23, 1999, but at 7:30 p.m., Louise C.
and her husband were in their garage, which serves as "his
workshop," at their home near Mira Mesa, north of San Diego,
Cal.

"My husband and I were in the garage, putting together his new
table saw," she reported, "Our next-door neighbor knocked at the
door and asked us to come outside to view Jupiter and Venus. We
took turns looking through her binoculars, when my husband,
getting a little anxious to get back to his new toy, just
happened to look north and see a bright light behind the row of
homes on the other side of the street."

Louise estimated that the UFO was about one mile to the north
over a canyon in the Rancho Penasquidas nature preserve, not far
from the U.S. Marine Corps Miramar Air Station.

"He alerted us in time to see an amber 'ball of light'
leisurely move straight up from behind the houses across the
street. When it got to about 150 feet up, it moved at a fairly
slow but consistent pace south and slightly east, passing to the
right of where we were standing. When it got over the house, it
shot up at about a 75 degree angle, while heading south but more
slightly to the west. It moved in this direction until we could
no longer see it in under seven seconds!"

"The strangest thing about it was that there was no sound. This
is not possible. There should have been a sonic boom or at the
very least a noise from the afterburners if it was a military
jet."

"It might be interesting to note that just after the light
disappeared , a couple of jets (possibly USMC EA-6
Prowlers--J.T.) were dispatched from that base and flying north
and slightly east at about 300 feet toward the Twentynine Palms
area. Immediately following the two jets was a craft, moving
quickly but without a lot of noise. It was flying in the same
direction and at the same altitude as the jets, so we could see
it clearly in the binoculars but did not recognize it. Its look
was triangular, and it had three lights, one at each point of
the triangle. One light was the round red flashing light,
another light was amber and the third was pale green." (Sounds
like an F117 Stealth fighter--J.T.)

Louise said none of the witnesses recognized the first UFO,
adding, "My husband had nine years in the Marine Corps and the
last three in an air wing, so he is extremely familiar with the
type of aircraft" flying out of Miramar. (Email Interview)


EYEWITNESS CONFIRMS MISSISSAUGA SIGHTING

A new witness has stepped forward to confirm the recent UFO
sighting in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada (population 463,388) on
Thursday, February 25, 1999.

Graham S.D. owns an apartment on the top floor of a building
"next to the lake in Mississauga. My sons' bedroom window
overlooks the city of Toronto about 12 miles away."

"Last Thursday, I was in my sons' room with them, just chatting
and generally staring out the window, when I noticed an
extremely bright 'sparkly' light about what I estimated to be
two miles south of Toronto over the lake." (Lake Ontario--J.T.)

Graham and his family are used to air traffic passing over their
building at night, on final approach into Pearson International
Airport. But this light was different.

"My expectations led me to believe that the light would get
closer and reveal its origins. However, this is not what
happened. We observed the light as it grew in size to truly huge
proportions, the reflection off the lake was unreal. It started
at this point to move obliquely toward us and away from us. As
it did this, I observed it to change to an orange but brighter
than sodium bulb light.. It did not sparkle as a bulb or other
light might do at a distance but rather it spat light in spurts
around it. It moved slowly at first, grew brighter, then zipped
to the right of our view, which is at least 30 miles unhindered,
in one or two seconds. The lake reflected the lights if its
passing." (Many thanks to John Hayes for this report.)

(Editor's Note: Covering 30 miles in two seconds yields a flight
speed of 5,400 miles per hour.)


BLACK HELICOPTERS VISIT LOWELL, MASSACHUSETTS

Late Thursday evening, March 4, 1999, twenty-five UH-60
Blackhawk helicopters roared into the city of Lowell,
Massachusetts (population 109,439) on a "night tactical
insertion" exercise.

The helicopters hovered over an abandoned textile mill on the
Merrimack River and disgorged a U.S. Navy SEAL Team, which
rappelled to the roof via nylon ropes.

According to the Lowell Sun, the City Council was notified of
the exercise by the USA Department of Defense, but, as in
Kingsville and Port Aransas, Texas, residents of the target
neighborhood were not alerted before the practice raid.

"Lowell has the best type of urban landscape-- old mill
buildings, overhead wires--to train Navy SEALs in urban
assault," TV Channel 5 in Boston reported.

"Terrified residents awoke to the sounds of battle." Indeed, the
noise of the helicopters and mock explosions was heard as far
away as Tyngsboro and Chelmsford, 10 miles (16 kilometers) from
Lowell.

Earlier in the week, a strange incident occurred in Wichita
(population 304,011), the largest city in Kansas. Randy H.
stopped for to buy some gasoline at a truck stop, the Matfield
Green Service Area, just off Interstate Highway I-35, also known
as the Kansas Turnpike. Randy claims he saw two men--male,
Caucasian, aged 20 to 30--in strange uniforms.

"I encountered two of their troops in transit southbound from
the Kansas Turnpike," he reported, "I struck up a conversation
with one of them, who told me they were on their way back to
McConnell (Air Force Base, just southeast of Wichita--J.T.) from
Topeka."

"The uniforms were black jackets with white lettering and black
military pants. The jackets had a large
(globe-with-olive-wreath) insignia of the UN on the back with
United Nations printed above the globe and Military Police
printed below, and black armbands with MP printed in white."

According to the witness, the two soldiers departed in a black
1996 Infiniti bearing Minnesota license plates BGS-106. "I
noticed a parking permit in the right rear corner of the rear
window, gold background with black lettering saying McConnell
Air Base with numbers in white with a black background." (See
the Lowell, Mass. Sun for March 4, 1999. Thanks also to UFOSSI
for the Wichita sighting report.)

(Editor's Comment: The Lowell Sun was the only newspaper to
carry the story. The exercise was ignored by both Boston
newspapers--the rah-rah, gung-ho conservative Boston Herald AND
the liberal, warm-and-fuzzy, sip-your-herbal-tea Boston Globe.
The same thing happened two weeks ago in Texas when the
mainstream media ignored the goings-on in Operation Last Dance.)



from the UFO Files...

1930: MAPINGUARY IS ON THE PROWL

South America has its own version of Bigfoot-- the Mapinguary, a
tall black-furred hominid usually seen in the jungles along the
Rio Araguaia, in Brazil's state of Mato Grosso do Sul. Here is
one of the more memorable sightings:

In 1930, a trail guide named Inocencio was interviewed by
Brazilian writer Paulo Saldanha Sobrino. Inonencio told of how
he "went on an expedition up the (Rio) Uatuma towards the
sources of the (Rio) Urubu."

"When their boat came to an impassable waterfall, they cut
across the jungle to reach the Urubu watershed. After two days,
Inocencio became separated from the rest of his party. He
shouted and fired his gun, but there was no reply except the
chatter of monkeys and the squawks of angry birds."

"So he began to walk almost blindly, feeling he must do
something in such a critical situation, until night fell, when
he climbed into a large tree and settled himself in a fork
between the branches."

"As it grew dark, the night was filled with jungle noises, and
Inocencio rested happily enough until suddenly there was a cry
which at first he thought there was a man calling, but he
realized at once no one would look for him in the middle of the
night. Then he heard the cry nearer at hand and more clearly. It
was a wild and dismal sound. Inocencio, very frightened, settled
himself more firmly into the tree and loaded his gun. Then the
cry rang out a third time, and now that it was so close, it
sounded horrible, deafening and inhuman."

Inocencio reported, "'Some forty yards away was a small clearing
where a samaumeira (tree) had fallen, and its branches had
brought down other, smaller trees. This was where his last cry
had come from. Immediately afterward there was a loud noise of
footsteps, as if a large animal was coming at me at top speed.
When it reached the fallen tree, it gave a grunt and stopped.
Finally, a silhouette the size of a man of middle height
appeared in the clearing.'"

"The night was clear. There was no moon, but the starry sky gave
a pale light which somehow filtered through the tangled
vegetation. In this half-light, Inocencio saw a thickset black
figure 'which stood upright like a man.'

"'it remained where it stood, looking perhaps suspiciously at
the place where I was. Then it roared again as before. I could
wait no longer and fired without even troubling to take proper
aim. There was a savage roar and then a noise of crashing
bushes. I was alarmed to see the animal rush, growling, towards
me. I fired a second bullet. The terrifying creature was hit and
gave an incredibly swift leap and hid near the old samaumeira.
From behind this barricade it gave threatening growls so
fiercely that the tree to which I was clinging seemed to
shake.'"

"'I loaded my gun again and, fearing another attack, fired in
the direction of the roaring. The black shape roared again more
loudly, but retreated and disappeared into the depths of the
forest. From time to time, I could still hear its growl of pain
until at last it ceased. Dawn was just breaking.'"

"Not until the sun was well up did Inocencio dare to come down
from his perch. In the clearing, he found blood, broken boughs
of bushes and smashed shrubs. Everywhere was a sour penetrating
smell."

Unwilling to deal with a wounded Mapinguary, Inocencio set off
for the river and eventually rejoined his companions. As he told
Paulo Saldanha Sobrino, "I maintain that I have seen the
Mapinguary. It is not armored as some people will have you
believe. They say that to wound it fatally you must hit the one
vulnerable spot--the middle of the belly. I can't say where it
was wounded by my bullet, for there was blood everywhere." (See
On the Trail of Unknown Animals by Bernard Heuvelmans, Librairie
Plon, Paris, 1955, pages 194 and 195.)


FUN UFO WEBSITES:

Explore the physics of UFOs with John H. Wiegman at his site,
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   Mar > Mar 9

                 Murgia Interviews Astronaut Story Musgrave

From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:03:52 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:35:04 -0500
Subject: Murgia Interviews Astronaut Story Musgrave


Hi All,

On 2/28/99, former NASA astronaut Story Musgrave was featured on
a Learning Channel program entitled, "UFOs Uncovered - Out of
This World". In one segment, Musgrave was shown video from NASA
shuttle mission STS-80. During the NASA video, an object appears
out of nowhere and traverses from right to left on the screen.
It appears as a glowing object with a small dark center.
Musgrave had this to say about this interesting piece of video.

"I don't know what it is? Whether it's a washer, debris, ice
particle, I don't know. But it's characteristic of the 1000s of
things which I've seen. What is not quite so charactreistic is
it appears to come from nowhere. You would think that even if it
is facing the dark side or facing a side towards you which does
not reflect the sun, you'd think you would see something there.
That one is really impressive!"

For anybody who familar with Musgrave, that's a big step for
him. He has repeatedly said that he didn't think there was any
evidence of UFOs visiting the Earth.

Here's a sample of his views from an interview I did with
Musgrave last year. You'll see why I think that was a big step.
Feel free to share this with anybody.

Joe Murgia

*************************

Interview with Dr. Story Musgrave by Joe Murgia


This is an interview I did with Dr. Story Musgrave on Friday,
July 10th, 1998. Musgrave was the keynote speaker at a
convention for firefighters and emergency medical technicians
from the Southeast. Most were from Florida. It was held in Tampa
at the Tampa Con- vention Center on 7/8, 7/9, and 7/10.

My time with Musgrave was limited and a follow-up interview is
needed. His views will be considered controversial to many. I
believe the man is either sworn to secrecy or uninformed
regarding the credible evidence that exists that we have unknown
craft in our skies.

Musgrave has a doctorate in medicine from Columbia University.
He also has at least six other degrees, is a veteran of six
space flights, has performed several spacewalks (three to repair
the hubble space telescope) and has spent almost 1,282 hours in
space.

After interviewing him on what he spoke about to the conference
attendees, I asked him some UFO/ET questions.


JM =3D Joe Murgia

SM =3D Dr. Story Musgrave

CBW =3D Captain Bill Wade, Tampa Fire Rescue

Wade is the host and producer of a Tampa Fire Rescue show
(FireLine) that I direct, videotape and edit for  City of Tampa
Television. He was present during the interview and asked one
question.

-----------------------

Joe Murgia - First off, I would like to clear something up. At a
lecture that you gave in Hawaii.

Story Musgrave - At the Bishop Museum I did a couple of lectures
yeah.

?JM - It was reported that at the end of your lecture, you put
up a picture of a bug eyed alien and said, these guys are out
there.

SM - Yeah.

JM - Now, did you mean that the beings known as grays are out
there or that extraterrestrials in general are out there?

SM.- They're out there. I don't know about those specifics but
when you've got billions of galaxies that all have billions of
stars that have been around billions of years, and the fact that
the more we look at life, it appears to be a cosmic imperative,
it is going to arise if you give it a chance. You got two worms
that are living at two hundred degrees Fahrenheit in volcanic
vents. You know, it's out there. And you got bugs that are
thirty thousand feet in the air. Life is a cosmic imperative.
Complexity will arise on some planet that's receiving energy
from some sun. Life will arise. And it has had billions of years
and billions of places to do it. So, it's out there.

JM - Do you think it's time now for open congressional hearings
on the subject of UFOs where military workers and government
employees can have their security oaths waived so they can talk
about the experiences they've had while on the job?

SM - My personal thinking is there is no conspiracy. There is no
cover-up at all. That people would've come forward if there is
information out there, we'd know about, you could have come
forward and the civilian populous would protect you. I do not
believe there is any conspiracy. I do not believe we have any
evidence that we have been visited here. None. If it's out there
show me because I am open. I want it to happen.

I know it's out there but you've got to show me. And I believe
people that have been in abductions and all kinds of other
things like that, they're not doing humanity a service at all,
not to bring some evidence back to let those people also have
that experience. You've got to bring some form of evidence back.
And I don't believe there is any evidence that we have been
visited by intelligent creatures.

JM - How important is it for the spiritual evolution of humans
to make contact with an extraterrestrial species?

SM - I think it's very important. I think it's very important,
first of all, to acknowledge their presence, which I do and I'm
open and I try to communicate. I know my chances are one in a
trillion but it's fun. And I figure if they're focusing, they're
focusing on something that's maybe outside of the earth. So I
try. But you also=85I'm also incredibly grounded and I know what
the possibilities are. I think it's very impor- tant in our
evolution and growth as a species just to ack- nowledge their
presence. It's part of, hey, Copernicus, (Tycogray?) and all
those people. The universe does not go around the earth. It is
part of our growth and evolution. And then you get later on into
Darwin and the creation evolution of species. You get into
Einstein and relativity, Heisenberg and uncertainty. All of
those ways in which we ascertain what universe are we in, what's
our place. It's our growth as a species. And the acknowledgment
of other living forms, intelligent creatures, that's part of our
growth and evolution and we will be different on account of
that. And we scientists, we have a sample of one, the way life
is here. That's a sample of one. Usually you don't draw
conclusions on a sample of one. We desperately need the other.
We need another to see how life arose and did what it did out
there. But we also need another to understand ourselves. You
cannot possibly know who you as an individual are until you have
someone else to relate to. It's very important. But first of
all, the  acknowledgment and we are moving in that direction. We
are growing in that direction where even before we arrive on
solid evidence and contact, we will have accepted the other.

JM - Have you had any personal experiences with what you would
consider an unknown object?

SM - None. And no Astronaut ever has.



JM - No Astronaut?

SM - No. No Astronaut has ever had an experience with something
that has the signature of intelligent life.

JM - What about Gordon Cooper's Experience?

SM - I know Gordon Cooper. No, he did not.

JM - No?

SM - No.

JM - Okay

SM - But you have to look at the mercury program.  That was
Gordo's flight. As soon as you see loose particles from when you
are injected into orbit, all of those particles, and they're out
there flashing and pulsing at you.  There are loose eels, they
look like eels.  There's all kinds of stuff going on.  If you
are propelled into that environment, you're going to talk about
that enthusiastically and say well, what is that?  After decades
of being in space, we now understand what that stuff is. None of
it is intelligent.

JM - Any opinion on the objects on Mars in the Cydonia region?
Artificial? Natural? Interesting?

SM - I don't know. I don't know.  But Mars is a frantic place.
And Mars did have water.  And Mars could be terraformed. And
Mars might have had stuff.  We need to just keep going up there.
We need to keep going.  It is out there. (Meaning other
intelligent life in the Universe) But that's the paradox.  The
problem is you know it's out there but the paradox of space and
time and distances and light years. We gotta get a way around
that, instead of thinking linear rockets and how fast can we go
in a linear sense.  Yes, it's this many light years we gotta
transport ourselves in a linear sense.  That's a horrendous
barrier when you're talking about thousands of light years.  We
need to get around that and we need our thinking to also start
us around that.  We also need to go beyond the big bang. I don't
believe in the big bang.  I believe existence always was and
always will be.

Big bang is some singularity.  There's also other universes out
there and you say hey, Musgrave's far out.  I'm not far out,
that's the common sense way to think.  It wasn't till the 1930's
we acknowledged any other galaxy.  Why?  Because we have this
anthropocentric error that we have made historically. It's
always ours.  There is only one life form and that's us. There's
only one intelligent being and that's us. We are the center of
the universe.  If you look at the historical error science has
made, it's making the same error today in thinking there's only
one universe or in thinking that something began in some
discreet thing.  The big question is now, how it's going to end.
We need to find more mass.  We need to find more neutrinos so we
don't expand forever. You know, we go back into this other
thing. Hey, big bang may be an oscillatory state.  It wasn't the
beginning. It was a singularity. And I think there's much more
common sense in that kind of thinking.  But it's the kind of
thing we need to do is to look at the historical errors humans
have made and not continue to make it. It's much more common
sense to think it always was and always will be. Except we need
to put a beginning on things cause WE had a beginning.

Captain Bill Wade - It almost sounds like a religious position
too?

SM - You can't separate the two.  You cannot separate the two.
It is a religious thing. It is spiritual.  I'd rather call it
spiritual.

CBW - Spiritual ok.

SM - But the universe is spiritual, period.  Don't tell me the
universe isn't spiritual.  I'm spiritual and I am the universe.
I am star dust.  I'm star dust. That's where I came from. That's
where this came from. (Referring to the microphone) Elements and
supernova's. That's where it came from. And it is spiritual.
There is a link between the cosmos and spirituality and the
cosmos is a spiritual place.  There is a link.

(I missed Dr. Musgraves's first part of the sentence but I
believe he said that he was a very open person.)

SM - I'm grounded too. That's why people love me, because I'm so
totally open, but also grounded.  You know, I want to deal with
the real stuff and if you have a bunch of nuts running around
out there you really don't serve the populous if you're only
creative and open and not grounded. Thanks a lot!

JM - Thank You






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   Mar > Mar 9

                The Year Of Mars As Probes Target Red Planet

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 04:48:25 GMT
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:40:13 -0500
Subject: The Year Of Mars As Probes Target Red Planet


Source:

http://www.flatoday.com:80/space/explore/stories/1999/030499a.htm

Links are preceded by an asterisk.

Stig

***

FLORIDA TODAY Space Online

"Planet Earth's best source for online space news"

March 4, 1999

This is the Year of Mars as probes target Red Planet

A FLORIDA TODAY editorial

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. - If intelligent creatures inhabit Mars,
they're probably wondering where all the UFOs are coming from.

In the summer of 1997, a probe smashed into the Red Planet,
bounced a few times and disgorged a small robot vehicle that ran
around sniffing rocks for several weeks - much to the delight of
countless schoolchildren and millions of others back on Earth.

Mars Pathfinder and the robot Sojourner provided new insights
about the Martian surface, and now another spacecraft is in
orbit around the planet and two others are en route and expected
to arrive later this year.

For NASA, this will be the Year of Mars, a planet that has
fascinated humanity for thousands of years.

Ian Griffin, director of *Brevard Community College's Astronaut
Memorial Planetarium and Observatory, said visitors to that
facility are especially curious about the Red Planet.

"For many children, their first question is whether there is
life on Mars," Griffin said. "We have a long history of being
fascinated with Mars, partly because it's so red and mysterious.
To ancient people, that must have been pretty fearsome, because
they didn't know what it was."

On Monday, the Mars Global Surveyor is scheduled to begin a
detailed mapping project that is expected to take almost two
years.

Scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena,
Calif., are handling the probe gingerly, fearful that a wrong
move could disable its antenna and ruin the mission that was
planned for years.

But if the Global Surveyor is successful, over the next two
years scientists will gain a treasure trove of information about
Mars.

The probe is designed to map 99 percent of the planet's surface
area, measure the heights and depths of its peaks and valleys
and conduct a mineral survey.

Meanwhile, two other probes should arrive on station later this
year. The Mars Polar Lander will land near the planet's south
pole and, using a robot arm that will gather soil samples,
conduct a three-month search for ice.

The second spacecraft, the Mars Climate Orbiter, will conduct a
detailed study of the planet's weather.

Although the three spacecraft will radio back to Earth huge
volumes of information, Griffin said, Mars is unlikely to lose
its mysterious attraction anytime soon.

"The space probes have ruled out any advanced civilizations
there, but that won't end our curiosity about possible life on
Mars," Griffin said. "They will just whet our appetite for
future exploration."

He's right about that. And someday humans will have to travel to
the Red Planet to see for themselves what it's like.



To learn more about the Mars Global Surveyor, visit its *Web site.


Use of this site signifies your agreement to the Terms of Service
updated February 1998.

Please e-mail comments or questions about this page to Space Online
Editor Mark DeCotis.

Contact Space Online Manager Jim Banke to inquire about becoming a
sponsor.

This World Wide Web site is copyright =A9 1999 FLORIDA TODAY.






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   Mar > Mar 9

                         Dundee Mountain Wisconsin?

From: Chad Kowalewski <Chad.Kowalewski@valpo.edu>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 07:19:44 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:44:39 -0500
Subject: Dundee Mountain Wisconsin?



A few days ago on TLC I saw a portion of a UFO show where they
discussed UFO activity around Dundee Mtn, in Wisconsin.

Since I live only an hour away I am going to go up and
investigate this.

Does anyone have any information regarding this site.

Thanks,

Chad

-----------------------------------------
Chad Kowalewski
Email: Chad.Kowalewski@valpo.edu
Valparaiso University





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   Mar > Mar 10

               Re: Murgia Interviews Astronaut Story Musgrave

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:13:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 03:26:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Murgia Interviews Astronaut Story Musgrave


>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:03:52 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Murgia Interviews Astronaut Story Musgrave


>(Tycogray?)

Tycho Brahe--Danish Astronomer responsible for highly accurate
positional observations of stars and planets.  His measurements
of the position of Mars were insturmental in enabling Johannes
Kepler to discover the elliptical nature of planetary orbits.

Brian







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                       Re: Dundee Mountain Wisconsin?

From: Joel Henry <jhenry@visi.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 10:52:23 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 04:00:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Dundee Mountain Wisconsin?


>From: Chad Kowalewski <Chad.Kowalewski@valpo.edu>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Dundee Mountain Wisconsin?
>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 07:19:44 -0600 (Central Standard Time)


>A few days ago on TLC I saw a portion of a UFO show where they
>discussed UFO activity around Dundee Mtn, in Wisconsin.

>Since I live only an hour away I am going to go up and
>investigate this.

>Does anyone have any information regarding this site.

It is not far from Port Washington where a crop circle was
recently. below is a list of nearby reports from that general
area. Dundee seems to be located right in the middle of a highly
wooded area. Check your map, it may be a state forest area or
something like that.

Joel Henry-Minnesota MUFON

**************************

National UFO Reporting Center
Sighting Report

Occurred: 9/23/1998 00:45
(Entered as: 09/23/98 24:45)
Reported: 9/23/1998 23:48
Posted: 9/26/1998
Location: Plymouth, WI
Shape: Circle

Bluish-green ball of light, moving from the east to the west.
Object had a tail.


While driving home from work on HWY 23 between Fond du Lac, WI
and Plymouth, WI I saw through the driver side window a bluish
green ball of light with a tail on it. The light lasted for
approx 4 to 5 seconds and just disapeared. I was traveling in a
Westernly direction and the object was moving in the same
direction. The object was about 1/4 the size of the full moon
roughly

---

National UFO Reporting Center
Sighting Report

Occurred: 7/4/1997 (Entered as: 7-4-97 2115-2200)
Reported: 7/14/1997 20:10
Posted: 9/26/1998
Location: Plymouth, WI
Shape: Light

Summary: Large v-shaped lights over fireworks display. Very high
up.Sat still for 40 min. Began to move slow for 1 min., then
streaked away VERY fast.

I am a housewife and the mother of five. My ten year old son and
I were at the fireworks display at the park in Plymouth WI.
Before the display began we noticed that directly above our
heads was an object.

My son first saw it and commented that it looked like an arrow.
The light were white with a very slight blue tinge compare to
the brught planets. The object was about five to eight times
brighter than a planet that was also visible.

It stayed stationary for a long period of time, about 20 minutes
later I saw a second obect, same shape but appeared to be father
away,maybe 3 times brighter than the planet.I wasn't constantly
watching,but I know that by ten o'clock the 2nd object was gone.

There was a large group of people sitting 10 feet in front of us
and I know they saw it to because we could hear them talk about
it, wondering what it was. As the grand finale started
[fireworks] I saw that it was slowly moving from north to south.

Then after a little while it moved fery fast sort of arcing to
the south and it was gone. This was during the last few
fireworks. Do you suppose they're watching fireworks? Do you
think they were our own experimental aircraft?



-------------------------------------------------------------------
Minnesota MUFON Field Investigator, Minnesota MUFON Journal Editor,
Minnesota MUFON Webmaster
Minnesota MUFON Web Page: http://www.visi.com/~jhenry/index.html





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   Mar > Mar 10

                        Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 99 12:38:51 PST
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 04:15:25 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'


>Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 00:41:14 -0500
>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'
>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 99 12:50:40 PST

>>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 00:03:53 -0500
>>>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

><snip>

>>>I went to this authors website and perused the  material there
>>>and was not impressed and neither was the NY Times as the review
>>>below will demonstrate beyond the shadow of a doubt.

>>Again, Gary Alevy's curious views -- we all recall his amusing
>>effort to convict Allen Hynek of being a sinister agent on the
>>basis of evidence invisible to the rest of humanity -- cause the
>>head to shake and the mind to wonder at the varieties of human,
>>or more precisely Alevyian, silliness.

>It is always such a joy for me to see a brand new set of your
>remarks, each one less intelligible than the last.

Always glad to repay the favor, dude.

>It is obvious that my messages on J. Allen Hynek have hit home
>and hit hard as both you and Mr. Sandow have chosen not to
>respond to my final post in the series, Re: 25 Rules of
>Disinformation.

Gary Alevy dreams on, and his dreams, as always, are doozies.
Let's get right to the point:

Do you, Mr. Alevy, believe Greg Sandow and me to be agents of an
intelligence agency?  Since "disinformation" -- the list you
provided, by the way, apparently came from a militia group; I
guess we know which side you're on -- is a term specifically
associated with intelligence and counterintelligence operations,
I shall assume the answer is yes unless I hear otherwise.

So let's be even more specific:

(1) Specifically which agency or agencies are Greg and I
associated with?

(2) What evidence, aside from our refusal to accept your
pronouncements on paranoid faith, do you have for such an
association?

>>We are informed that I have "praised to the skies" a book I have
>>never read or even seen.  (I'm betting that my partners-in-crime
>>Larry Hatch and Jim Mortellaro haven't read or seen it either,
>>much less dispatched hosannas heavenward.)

>The reason I responded in the manner that I did was that you and
>Messieurs Hatch and Mortellaro seemed to be at least plugging
>the author.  Yes, Jim I heard you praise the Heard and the
>gripple amplified that effect.

Alevy logic, again.  God help us.


>>Moreover, as those of us who know our literary history are
>>aware, all sorts of titles that went on to become enduring
>>classics were poorly received at the time of their publication.
>>Perhaps the most notorious example is Melville's Moby-Dick,
>>first published in 1851 to tepid or hostile reviews, soon after
>>forgotten, only to be revived in the next century, to be
>>recognized as one of the unarguably great American novels --
>>some critics think  _the_ greatest -- of the past 150 years.

>I am amazed that even the slightest inference could be made
>comparing "Apocalypse Pretty Soon" with a literary triumph such
>as Moby Dick.  Incredibly Mr. Clark compares the initial
>reception of Moby Dick to what is happening to Mr. Heard's book
>today...while at the same time saying he is not comparing the
>two. That is, it is a typical Clarkism to say one thing while
>doing exactly the opposite.  Inspite of Mr. Clark's
>protestations to the contrary below, this is precisely what he
>is doing. This is one of the favorite skepti-bunker techniques
>for dealing with issues and people across the board in ufology.

I doubt that any reader besides Mr. Alevy will have had any
trouble understanding my point, which was simply that one or two
or more reviews of a book are not necessarily the final word on
that book's value.  Good books get slammed all the time, and bad
books get undeservedly favorable reviews.  That won't be news to
anybody except Mr. A. Note also that Mr. A, after implying that
I am associated with an intelligence agency, now informs the
list that I am something he calls a "skepti-bunker."  Is there
anybody besides Mr. A who thinks this characterizes my position
on the UFO phenomenon?

Meantime, I'm looking forward to reading Apocalypse Pretty Soon.
Unlike Mr. A, I make up my own mind about a book's virtues --
after actually reading them, no less. I am also looking forward
to reading the evidence of my and Greg Sandow's association with
intelligence agencies.  Something tells me it'll be as
underwhelming as Mr. A's "evidence" for the Hynek/
sinister-agency link.

Jerry Clark






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   Mar > Mar 10

                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: googong@interact.net.au
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:08:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:08:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

        ::
:
:
:
:
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:47:05 +1000
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?
:
:
:

>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:56:16 -0800
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Zecharia Sitchin?

<big snip>

>My only input was to ask what Astronomers might think of the
>planetary portions of Sitchin's writings.

At the url
http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa/twelfthp.html
I give my answer to this question.

>
>After a brief exchange of letters with Sitchin some years back,
>it became evident that some of the the simplest elements of
>astronomy were lost on him.

I'm not surprised at this.

>
>Best wishes
>
>-  Larry Hatch

Bill Alford
http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa

Bill Alford     googong@interact.net.au  http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa





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                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: googong@interact.net.au
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:47:05 +1000
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:02:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:56:16 -0800
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Zecharia Sitchin?

<big snip>

>My only input was to ask what Astronomers might think of the
>planetary portions of Sitchin's writings.

At the url:

http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa/twelfthp.html

I give my answer to this question.

>After a brief exchange of letters with Sitchin some years back,
>it became evident that some of the the simplest elements of
>astronomy were lost on him.

I'm not surprised at this.


Bill Alford
http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa

Bill Alford     googong@interact.net.au
http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa





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                        Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:56:21 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:10:54 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'



>Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 15:14:24 -0800
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'
>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 99 12:50:40 PST

>>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 00:03:53 -0500
>>>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>>>[List Only]

>>>The review is copyrighted by the NY Times.

>>>Listophiles,

>>>Whenever the NY Times newspaper prints something I agree with
>>>its the greatest newspaper in the world. This week they have
>>>been living up to every expectation. Check out this review of
>>>Alex Heard's new book, a book praised to the skies by Jerome
>>>Clark, Larry Hatch and Jim Mortellaro during the recent thread
>>>of discussion on UFO Update entitled "Apocalypse Pretty Soon".

<snip>

>Jerry is right. I have never seen Alex Heard's book 'Apocalypse
>Pretty Soon' at all. I could therefore not have commented on it,
>one way or another.

>I definitely liked the title however!  In three words we have a
>humorous moniker for millenium madness and those associated with
>it.

>How about you Jim, did you see a copy yet?

No sir.  In my present condition, as "Taste Tester" for the new
Freshly Made Products (the old taster died of lead poisening), I
am unable to see clearly enough to read anything simpler than
"See the John, Run to the John, Jim... Run!"   However I have
placed my request for a compimentary copy for all three of us
accused of moral terpitude.






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                    1999 Wine Taster on the Streets of NY

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:56:21 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:16:29 -0500
Subject: 1999 Wine Taster on the Streets of NY


I would like to take this opportunity to request that EBK allow
me to announce the first ever, Gripple Taster Festival On the
Streets of NY. This wonderful and I might add, _free' event,
will take place on the curb, outside the building where those
upstart UFO people are gonna have their conference.  Dr. Gesundt
has promised me that all Gripple distributed for this special
event, will have been made that very day, just a few blocks away
at our Canal Street plant.  We have been successful at removing
all traces of lead from our newest Sky Gripple, the favorite of
UFO pilots the universe over, so drink up folks.

Just make sure you attend the conference first.  We understand
that the subtitle of their conference is, "What we know and how
we know it!"  We need to make clear the fact that once you know
it and drink our newest Freshly Made, you won't remember it.  So
please, wait until after the conference and assign a designated
abductee for the evening.

Make sure that when you call 212-645-5278 for tickets to the
Intruders Foundation event, you tell them "Dr. Gesundt sent me."
You may be entitled to a free ride home in our Gripple Limo.
Which you gonna need if you've been drinking SkyGripple.  That
stuff'll put ink in _your_ Mont Blanc for sure!

Gesundt





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                    Re: UFO ROUNDUP. Volume 4, Number 10

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:45:27 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:22:42 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP. Volume 4, Number 10


>EYEWITNESS CONFIRMS MISSISSAUGA SIGHTING

>A new witness has stepped forward to confirm the recent UFO
>sighting in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada (population 463,388) on
>Thursday, February 25, 1999.

>Graham S.D. owns an apartment on the top floor of a building
>"next to the lake in Mississauga. My sons' bedroom window
>overlooks the city of Toronto about 12 miles away."

>"Last Thursday, I was in my sons' room with them, just chatting
>and generally staring out the window, when I noticed an
>extremely bright 'sparkly' light about what I estimated to be
>two miles south of Toronto over the lake." (Lake Ontario--J.T.)

>Graham and his family are used to air traffic passing over their
>building at night, on final approach into Pearson International
>Airport. But this light was different.

>"My expectations led me to believe that the light would get
>closer and reveal its origins. However, this is not what
>happened. We observed the light as it grew in size to truly huge
>proportions, the reflection off the lake was unreal. It started
>at this point to move obliquely toward us and away from us. As
>it did this, I observed it to change to an orange but brighter
>than sodium bulb light.. It did not sparkle as a bulb or other
>light might do at a distance but rather it spat light in spurts
>around it. It moved slowly at first, grew brighter, then zipped
>to the right of our view, which is at least 30 miles unhindered,
>in one or two seconds. The lake reflected the lights if its
>passing." (Many thanks to John Hayes for this report.)

>(Editor's Note: Covering 30 miles in two seconds yields a flight
>speed of 5,400 miles per hour.)

Hi everyone.

The above UFO report, if it occurred at around 6:30 a.m., would
be of the same bright fireball that was witnessed by many others
from various communities, up to several kilometers apart, in
southern Ontario and the northern U.S. and which was reported on
UFO UpDates on February 25.

Below is one of the more recent replies from Don, a meteorite
hunter, to this February UFO UpDates report.

Nick Balaskas

---

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:30:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Don Fougere <kamacite@yahoo.com>
To: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Subject: Re: [canufo] Sudbury Fireballs (fwd)

All the witnesses I gathered locally from lindsay, don mills,
port elgin to st thomas saw it terminate to the SW andf one near
the coast of lake huron. near as I figure it ended up in lake
huron or in michigan.

Reports already submitted to R hawkes, d lemay and IMO in states.

Cheers, and thanks for the lead.
Don







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                           UFO and Suicide Cults?

From: Craig Evry <96013307@student.darlington.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 18:54:36 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:29:58 -0500
Subject: UFO and Suicide Cults?

[Non-Subscriber Post]

I was wondering if you could help me - I am trying to look for
information and interviews for people who are knowledgable about
UFO and Suicide Cults.

I am in the final year of a journalism degree in England and I
am doing my major dissertation on conspiracy theories and this
is one aspect of my study and I would appreciate any help that
you can give me.

Craig Evry





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              Re: [canufo] Mississauga Sighting February 25-99

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 17:00:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:47:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [canufo] Mississauga Sighting February 25-99


>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 14:29:31 -0500
>From: Jennifer Jarvis <Jennifer@Mallet.com>
>To: canufo@egroups.com
>Subject: [canufo] Mississauga Sighting February 25th 1999


>>"Last Thursday, I was in my sons' room with them, just chatting
>>and generally staring out the window, when I noticed an
>>extremely bright 'sparkly' light about what I estimated to be
>>two miles south of Toronto over the lake." (Lake Ontario--J.T.)

>(NOTICE PLEASE - "two miles south of Toronto over the lake.".....J)

Hi Jennifer - great to hear from you again.

All fireballs have a start point and an end point.  As the
fireball crosses the sky, the compass direction will change by
as much as 180 degrees.  Also, one observer will report that the
fireball was to the north at the mid-point of it's flight while
another observer will insist it was to the south and they both
would be right if their locations were opposite to each other
relative to the fireball.  This information from at least 3
observers in needed to allow us to determine an accurate
distance of the fireball.  Any fewer observers and we would only
be guessing so the two mile estimate above may actually be 200
miles.

>>Graham and his family are used to air traffic passing over their
>>building at night, on final approach into Pearson International
>>Airport. But this light was different.

>>"My expectations led me to believe that the light would get
>>closer and reveal its origins. However, this is not what
>>happened. We observed the light as it grew in size to truly huge
>>proportions, the reflection off the lake was unreal.

>At this point, the witness is looking towards the lake, yes???
>Also, the so-called fireball sighting had, I thought, occurred on the
>morning of the 24th.

>You  had posted to Canufo, ON February 25th:

>"Hi everyone.

>Driving to work yesterday morning  I heard on the radio (680 AM in
>Toronto) about a bright meteor that was seen and reports of a possible
>airplane crash in the
>Kitchener/Waterloo area (west of Toronto) at about 6:30 a.m. earlier
>that same morning....."

>Surely, Nick, that would put your "sighting" event (heard on the radio)
>as having taken place  in the early  morning of the 24th February?

Making assumptions can lead one to wrong conclusions.  I heard
about this fireball on the radio at about 8:00 a.m. on my drive
to work on February 25, the same day I posted it on UFO UpDates.
Since this fireball took place at 6:30 a.m. that same morning,
how could it have been on February 24?  Another UFO report, the
Sudbury fireball and military helicopter case took place on
February 24 and was reported on canufo.  Maybe there was some
confusion between these two similar events.

As for reflections off the Lake Ontario, we have ones from
airplanes and bright celestial objects like the Moon and
fireballs are often as bright as the Moon.  As for "it grew in
size", we have collected several reports from observers of this
fireball many hundreds of kilometers apart who thought came so
close to them that they thought the object even crashed in their
neighbourhoods.

Fireballs will brighten and often explode or flareup during
their flight through the sky.  This brightening of the fireball
can be interpreted as the object getting closer to the observer.
I know of one trained astronomy technican who reported fast
moving UFOs in the sky which turned out to be fireflies at close
range...  All of us can be mistaken at times.

>>at this point to move obliquely toward us and away from us. As
>>it did this, I observed it to change to an orange but brighter
>>than sodium bulb light..

>(this characteristic of the "sodium" bulb appearance, has been
>documented many times by Harry B. Picken and Malcom Williams, who did
>extensive research and photography of lights over the lake throughout
>the 1970's.

>Harry was, at that time, working at Genaire, at St. Catharine's airport,
>near Virgil, and was very conversant with all types of aircraft lights.
>Also, he lived right by the head of the Niagara River, and was used to
>watching these balls of light doing their antics on a regular basis.)

We know about man often imitating nature, well this fireball can
be an example of nature imitating a sodium vapour lamp.
Actually, if we read the observer's comments carefully, it is
the brightness of the light, not the lamp that I think John was
referring to.  As for Harry's and Malcom's UFO sightings over
Lake Ontario, please let us know more.

>>It did not sparkle as a bulb or other
>>light might do at a distance but rather it spat light in spurts
>>around it.

>>It moved slowly at first,

>PLEASE NOTE: the above phrase!!!!
>My question: Do fireballs normally alter speed as you watch them?

Yes, they do.  An airplane farther away seems to be moving
slower than when it is closer to you.  You can prove this for
yourself by taking pictures of meteors with a constant rotating
disk with a wide slit opening in from of your camera.  The
dashed lines (the distance the meteor travelled in the same
amount of time) will not all be the same length.

Sudden dimming and brightening of the fireball will also give
the illusion of changing speed too.

>>to the right of our view, which is at least 30 miles unhindered,
>>in one or two seconds. The lake reflected the lights if its
>>passing." (Many thanks to John Hayes for this report.)

>ONE LAST  NOTE:  This behaviour, as reported above, of this light, is
>consistent with the hundreds of events that I have witnessed over the
>lake since March 1997.

I have had the pleasure of observing with you and your friend
and seeing some of these objects low in the sky over the lake,
both while the sun was still above the horizon and at night
under dark and clear conditions.

Although I greatly admire you as an excellent and dedicated
observer, our interpretation of the objects we saw and recorded
on video that observing session were very different.  I am sure
you have observed more than your fair share of unexplained
objects in the sky but if all the facts for any given UFO
sighting can be explained as some known object and/or condition,
then that is what it likely was and not necessarily an E.T.
visitor arriving to Earth who likes to take the scenic route
over Niagara Falls...

I think I have good reasons for my opinions and beliefs but I
certainly do want to listen to others who have different views.
If you thought science and religion have views that are
incompatible, you haven't been to many conferences where only
scientists - or ufologists - are present.

Take care and happy observing.

Nick Balaskas
Physics and Astronomy
York University






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              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 15:45:26 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 06:19:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed


>From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 19:50:03 EST
>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed.

>Secret Government Technology
>by Edgar Rothschild Fouche�
>Copyright 1998, Fouche Media Associates
>http://fouchemedia.com/arap/speech.htm

>     Presentation By Edgar Rothschild Fouche

>     International UFO Congress

>       Laughlin, Nevada 1998

>It is written as a fiction
>story with characters on a quest, to uncover the truth, much
>like the one my five friends and I started out on. I�ve just
>barely scratched the surface of the details and facts presented
>in Alien Rapture.

The term "facts" has taken on new meaning, I guess.  I was very
excited to read this book after having seen Ed Fouche's
presentation at MUFON LA a few weeks ago.  In one of the first
chapters, however, was the story of a downed military plane with
the crew mutilated cattle-mutilation style.  I recognized this
story as one that has circulated for years, usually set in
Vietnam during the war.  In Fouche's book the story was set in
Korea.

Thing is, Linda Moulton Howe said that she tried to verify the
Vietnam story (some years ago) and was unable to come up with
ANY evidence for it.  Yet, here it is presented again as part of
a book that is supposedly "factual," but for some names changed
to protect the innocent, which is the only way Fouche would be
allowed to publish his story.

I haven't been able to bring myself to read the rest of this
book.  How many other bogus stories are buried therein.  And why
should I believe the TR-3B information from someone with so
little respect for "the truth" or conscientiously informing the
public.  I really regret the $20 purchase price.

It's bad enough that we have dubious hoaxes on the Internet
every three weeks -- or are we down to weekly or bi-monthly now?
-- but here we've got one in print and supposedly from good
inside sources. The inclusion of boldly emotionally-manipulative
material, designed to boost book sales, I guess, has done
nothing to add credibility for the TR-3B story, the book's
original reason for being, presumably.

>What�s really strange many people can believe in an alien
>triangle, but not one built and flown by the US department of
>defense.

That's easy...show us the evidence!  And don't, next time, mix
it with equal parts fantasy, hoax and rumor.  Fouche has
completely taken himself out of the picture as a credible UFO
source or researcher.  Nice work. :-(



--

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>





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                         Recent New Mexico Sightings

From: Christopher O'Brien <tmv@pop.amigo.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 17:36:40 -7
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 06:46:49 -0500
Subject: Recent New Mexico Sightings


A close proximity report of unexplained aerial activity near or
over a small body of water has surfaced in Northern NM.  Note:
The La Veta, CO Jan 26th sighting featured a craft extending a
beam into a small lake on the 18th hole of the La Veta Golf
Course

Fri Feb 19, 1999 between 9:30 PM and 10:00 PM, 1/4 mile south
of Black Lake, NM--about 23 miles SE of Taos, NM, CE1 Duration:
5-10 minutes Mora/Colfax Counties (O'Brien)

A couple w/ a south facing house witness 2 objects (each w/ a
single brilliant white light) rise from the Coyote Canyon area
NE of Chacon, NM., about 2 miles south of their home.  Lights
viewed under binoculars were "rapidly oscillating as if they
were rapidly spinning."  Woman witness described the lights as
being between their vantage point and the mountains 2 miles
away.  The lights were described as being "... so bright they
left an after-image" when the witnesses looked away.

Within minutes of the commencement of the sighting the first two
objects/lights were joined by 4 similar lights/craft.  1st two
objects stopped out "in front of the living room window" and
"began bouncing around like they wanted our attention."  Then,
the group of lights headed down to the lake for several minutes
before 2 of the objects went straight up and the other 4
"drifted off over the mountains to the south."

No sound was associated with the entire episode and in the
witnesses estimation, there was "no way they were helicopters."
Woman estimated they were less than a mile away at their closest
approach and completely silent.


The following day a truck driver told the couple he had been
returning up NM 434 after a delivery; at the same time as the
couple's sighting, and had also witnessed the 6 unusual lights.


Thu Mar 4, 1999 at 11:00 PM North of Del Norte, CO Airfield AN1
Rio Grande County (O'Brien)

A couple that live near the Del Norte, CO airstrip call to
report watching "a large straw-colored light hovering over Jeep
Hill," 1/4 mile away to the SW of their house.  They estimated
the size of the light to be "15 feet in diameter."
Craft/object/light then turned on a spotlight which illuminated
the area below it.  Witnesses told me this was the second
sighting of a similar light/event in the area; the first event
occurred in the late Fall '98.


The Black Lake, NM couple claims they have watched similar
bright white lights "almost ever night" since a multiple-object
sighting on Feb 19.  Lights have appeared to be higher in
altitude.  In one sighting:

Mar 8, 1999 at 8:30 PM, Black Lake, NM; a bright white light
[similar to the lights in the Feb 19 sighting] appeared to rise
from behind the mountains (just to the south of their location),
to the altitude of a passing jet.  The light "paced the
plane--sitting 15 miles behind it" as the two headed south
toward Las Vegas, NM.

Tue Mar 9, 1999, 5:30-6:00 AM Crestone, "Olde Town."  Three
buildings in Olde Town catch fire and burn to the ground SAME
DAY

Tue Mar 9, 1999 Northern/Central SLV  12:10 PM  4 Jets N to S
down the SLV MTR.  2 went over Blanca, 2 went down westside of
SLV toward Greenie Ridge  12:20 PM a "large jet/cargo plane
toward Greenie." 1:45 PM   2nd cargo plane heads toward Blanca
after 1st 2 fighters.  4:30 PM  Jet "vibrates" the Baca headed N
to S down the Sangres.

After cruising along w/ no flap-levels of activity, I'm back in the
saddle a-gin . . .



Christopher O'Brien
CAUS/Skywatch
tmv@amigo.net
http://home.amigo.net/tmv






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                           Re: Meier Case - Redux

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:48:15 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 06:50:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux


>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 5:35 PM
>To: Skywatch International Inc.
>Subject: Meier Case - Redux

<snip>

>I was recently given a numbered (No. 110 of 2,000) limited first
>edition copy of Wendelle C. Stevens's groundbreaking book, UFO
>Contact from The Pleiades: A Preliminary Investigation Report,
>copyright 1978. I d never read the book before, and had only
>given the Eduard Billy Meier case a cursory look when it first
>surfaced back in the late 70 s.

<snip>

>The particular passage in question begins on page 56, and is
>reproduced in its entirety below: In a contact on 2 March 1975
>Meier was given three missions to carry out. Part III of the
>contact pertaining to the third mission is translated as
>follows:

<snip>

>An increasing decay in the ozone belt of the stratosphere is
>being caused by the continuous production of ozone destroying
>chemical substances that rise as gas into the atmosphere and
>damage the ozone belt.

<snip>

>No one was talking about holes in the ozone layer in March of
>1975.

>Yet, here is Semajse giving Meier detailed warnings of something
>that would not even be scientifically observed and verified
>until 1985!

<snip>

Sorry to disappoint you Kim but back in 1975/76 I took a course
here at York University titled Chemistry of the Atmosphere which
was taught by Prof. Harold Shiff (no relation to Semajse).  We
learned all about CFCs and their effect on the ozone layer in
much detail in this course.  Dr. Shiff liked to boast how he, as
advisor to President Lyndon B. Johnson (term ended January
1969), was responsible for the cancellation of the U.S. SST
project through his research findings on CLCs and its threat to
the ozone layer and ultimately the whole world.  Although the
ozone layer may not have been a term commonly used by the public
in the 1960's, it was news in the 1970's, at least among people
who read newspapers like you, me and Meier.

Dr. Shiff told me he was a friend and admirer of Dr. James
McDonad of UFO fame who died in June 1971.  Although Dr. Shiff
did not seem to take UFOs seriously, he fully supported Dr.
McDonald's efforts to stop U.S. funding for a fleet of SSTs that
would quickly destroy Earth's fragile ozone layer.

Seems to me that space aliens learned a lot from our scientists
since I certainly didn't tell them anything. ;o)

Nick Balaskas







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                             Latest On Hoagland

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:15:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:15:19 -0500
Subject: Latest On Hoagland





Source: The Enterprise Mission

http://www.enterprisemission.com/medstats.html

Hoagland Suffers Heart Attack


UPDATE 3/9/99:





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                  -=[For The Record]=- Re: Bell is no Rense

From: Art Bell<ArtBell@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 20:11:02 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:38:28 -0500
Subject: -=[For The Record]=- Re: Bell is no Rense


To the list that is forced to read this dribble, I apoligize for
Richard, not to him. He needs help. I am not qualified. Jeff
Rense and others who take up with him only sink to his level.
Even Joe Firmage has finally had enough. Have you?

Art Bell






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                             Bell-Storm Warning

From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 21:13:28 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:38:49 -0500
Subject: Bell-Storm Warning


ArtBell@aol.com wrote:

>To the list that is forced to read this dribble, I apoligize for Richard,
>not to him. He needs help. I am not qualified. Jeff Rense and others
>who take up with him only sink to his level. Even Joe Firmage has
>finally had enough. Have you?

>Art Bell


I haven't. You apologize for Richard? (Hoagland?) I don't get
this?

I am Robert. Are you attempting to apologize to me?

Final note on this Bell.

You need to pray for your friend. Period. I am not the issue. A
bad heart is. He'll get through this---he's young and hearty and
ornery as piss in a gale. He'll make it through this thing.

Your mails are written from someone who is scared, or rattled.
You should be. I am not what you have dealt with in any time of
your public career now or in the past. Know this. I am
relentless. I came in this UFO culture by solicitation. It is
not my venue. I am capable of making it my permanent home if you
so desire this to be. What others think of me is irrelevant.
Their dissent is not. And the legions out here in the realm are
quite restless in utter dissent to the status quo of bullshit.

You will cease against David John Oates, or anyone else. The
bullying ceases. If you continue, what I said in my 'Bell is Not
Rense' mail, I will come gnashing in great fury of dissent. This
is a promise. I believe you know this. I am at the bottom of the
social food chain. I did this deliberately. Now, it is not the
person, it is the issues of dissent. That is all there is.

I am here, Art. You just have to adapt. Like a lizard adapts to
extreme heat. If there is any badmouthing of me tonight on the
show indirectly or otherwise I will be at Jacor with attorneys
from Hale-Bopp and EG&G Florida (the CIA subcontrators). I
believe your own legal counsel will verify whom EG&G is. Please
know this. I am serious with this promise. We are all set to
move if you wish.  I will tolerate no more from your one sided
attacks on my person. From this time forward, that is over. You
are more than welcome to test this if you wish. Last night you
crossed that last frontier beyond entertainment.


Go easy.

James 4:14.

I'm doing an essay. It is about Challenger. Sometimes there is
more about a person's wrath and dissent than one can know.  I
have memories. Hoagland and others who rail at NASA are in
error, if they really really knew.

Consider.

In case you didn't read it, I'll repeat it here--James 4:14. I
read it for Judy Resnik's folks at her funeral after Challenger
fell down. I also inscribed it on the memorial piece I did for
NASA commemorating that awful event. We have much to be thankful
for in many ways. He'll get through this.

Here it is:

"Where as ye know not what will be on the morrow, for what is
your life anyway? It is even a vapor, that appeareth for a
little time, then vanishes. Selah." (Hebrew=think of that)

Apologize to me, Bell. This would be a good time. Do not spindle
this kindness from me as you did this morning. Apologize on air
and by email. Directly--publicly--clearly. You will be dignified
to me. As I am being to you at this moment. And you can then end
what will surely come if you fail this time. Public dissent can
be awful against the castles of perceived power. There is no
such thing as revenge, Bell. There is only that which is
ultimately those angels of our higher calling.

This is a storm warning. Do not spindle this.

The alternative will be publicly distasteful


I remain,

Robert A.M.Stephens
NASA Documentation Program
Stillwater Mills-Aerospace
KSC-PIB/shuttle/MSF
406-745-3818
sti3818@montana.com
http://198.116.116.10/gallery/arts/samples/.html
http://cdfnet.com/RAMSES/
http://www.cdfnet.com/INTERVIEWS

(encryp.546)





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                           Re: Bell-Storm Warning

From: Art Bell <ArtBell@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 23:48:05 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:39:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell-Storm Warning


Yes Robert,

I apoligize for Richard not being here to defend himself
against your endless personal assaults. Apoligize to you?
Not in this life time. If you want to attack me, be my
guest. get in line. You are nothing but a Liar and Fraud,
a very small person who attacks people when they are
down. So give me your best shot, personal or public.

I thought Jeff Rense was a good guy until he started
to be a method for you to spread your poison. That
puts him in the same portion of the food chain as
you.

I have been theatened by far better then you. Hell,
anybody is better then you. So, go for it. I await
your rain of terror. LOL

Art Bell





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                           Re: Bell-Storm Warning

From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 22:52:58 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:40:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell-Storm Warning




ArtBell@aol.com wrote:

> Yes Robert,

> I apoligize for Richard not being here to defend himself
>against your endless personal assaults. Apoligize to you?
>Not in this life time. If you want to attack me, be my
>guest. get in line. You are nothing but a Liar and Fraud,
>a very small person who attacks people when they are
>down. So give me your best shot, personal or public.

> I thought Jeff Rense was a good guy until he started
>to be a method for you to spread your poison. That
>puts him in the same portion of the food chain as
>you.

> I have been theatened by far better then you. Hell,
>anybody is better then you. So, go for it. I await
>your rain of terror. LOL


-------------

Very well As you wish.

It shall come in the days ahead.

It is amazing what you have set in motion.


Robert A.M. Stephens

(oh,  the folks that tried to bomb me, its funny, all you PC
folks just don't get it. The Mac is impervious to this -- love
it. BT traces the mails back. Its great)

Haven't had this much fun since 12-31-1998







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                            Re: Bell is no Rense

From: Ron Bach <roam5@utinet.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 21:36:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:55:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense


Dear Art,

ArtBell@aol.com wrote:

>To the list that is forced to read this dribble, I apoligize
>for Richard, not to him. He needs help.

>Yes, we all need to pray for Richard and no one here wishes
>Richard any harm. who take up with him only sink to his level.
>Even Joe Firmage has finally had enough. Have you?

>Art Bell


Again, why this incessant 'grouping' and what are 'levels'?

I fully support Judith Dale, Robert Stephens, Ralph Greenberg,
Amargi Hillier, and several others on Rowland Net BBS for their
legitimate questions regarding proof of any of Richard's claims.

Jeff Rense also provided me with a venue to challenge Richard
Hoagland alongside Steven Greer and Greer camp has since
answered the questions and treated me very kindly and decently.

I doubt that had my article not been posted on Jeff Rense's site,
Greer camp may not have seen the necessity to answer and
clarify. They did; and very convincingly. So please leave Jeff
Rense or any other Journalists, Reporters out of this squabble.

While you are at it, why don't you also involve Michael Theroux?
His site posted the Amargi Hillier claims too.

To everyone else,

If Robert chooses to use derogatory wording, it is his choice.
That does not render his legitimate questions anymore
unanswerable.

His wording would be very influenced by the treatment he has
received thus far. Or am I the only one to point out
rationality?

Kind regards to all here.






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              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 21:03:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:58:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed



>From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 19:50:03 EST
>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed.


>Secret Government Technology
>by Edgar Rothschild Fouche
>Copyright 1998, Fouche Media Associates
>http://fouchemedia.com/arap/speech.htm


>     Presentation By Edgar Rothschild Fouche

>     International UFO Congress

>       Laughlin, Nevada 1998

<snip>

>SLIDE 72: TR-3B Schematic diagram

>A circular, plasma filled accelerator ring called the Magnetic
>Field Disrupter, surrounds the rotatable crew compartment and is
>far ahead of any imaginable technology.

>Sandia and Livermore laboratories developed the reverse
>engineered MFD technology. The government will go to any lengths
>to protect this technology. The plasma, mercury based, is
>pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a temperature of 150
>degrees Kelvin and accelerated to 50,000 rpm to create a
>super-conductive plasma with the resulting gravity disruption.

Sounds like a crock to me!

>The MFD generates a magnetic vortex field, which disrupts or
>neutralizes the effects of gravity on mass within proximity, by
>89 percent. Do not misunderstand. This is not antigravity.
>Anti-gravity provides a repulsive force that can be used for
>propulsion.

Sounds like a crock to me.

>The MFD creates a disruption of the Earth's gravitational field
>upon the mass within the circular accelerator. The mass of the
>circular accelerator and all mass within the accelerator, such
>as the crew capsule, avionics, MFD systems, fuels, crew
>environmental systems, and the nuclear reactor, are reduced by
>89%.

Sounds like a crock to me!





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               Upcoming Dr. Greer/CSETI Lectures and Workshops

From: Debbie Foch <coordinator@cseti.org>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 20:10:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:04:35 -0500
Subject: Upcoming Dr. Greer/CSETI Lectures and Workshops


Please pass this along to interested people in the DC area.


Washington DC Area Events March 1999

Thursday, March 25, Largo, Maryland.

Dr. Steven Greer, director of the Center for the Study of
Extraterrestrial Intelligence (CSETI), lectures on
"Extraterrestrial Intelligence - The Evidence and Implications",
at the Hallam Theatre in the Queen Anne Fine Arts Building of
the Prince George's Community College, from 8 to 10 pm.

Admission: $5 at the door.

Located off Interstate 95/495 exit 15 east, to south on Rte. 202
about a half mile on the right.

Call 888-ET-CSETI or 301-249-3915, or send an email to
coordinator@cseti.org, for more information.


Saturday, March 27, Silver Spring, Maryland.

Dr. Greer will conduct a workshop about the CSETI ET contact
protocols and the nature of extraterrestrial reality, from 12 pm
to 6 pm at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Silver Spring,
Maryland, located on Oaklawn Dr, off  New Hampshire Avenue, 3
blocks north of Interstate 495. That evening, Dr. Greer will
take the group to a "remote" location to apply those contact
protocols. For the evening, participants should bring warm
clothes, a folding chair, a flash light, and if available:
binoculars, cameras, night vision equipment, high powered light,
other sensors.

Cost: $50 per person.

Call 888-ET-CSETI or 301-249-3915, or send an email to
coordinator@cseti.org, for more information.


Thanks,

Debbie Foch
CSETI
website: http://www.cseti.org






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                     Re: UK Hoax - New Disturbing Facts

From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 19:00:59 PST
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:06:48 -0500
Subject: Re: UK Hoax - New Disturbing Facts

>From: Lynda Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UK Hoax - New Disturbing Facts
>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:22:36 -0000

>Read this - and weep......

>Dear All,

>It is with regret that I am able to now release new details of
>the Cheshire "UFO Landing" hoax perpetrated against the British
>UFO Studies Centre, and exposed within two days, by two
>desperate and initially believable characters going under the
>names "Caroline Sutton" and "Graham Wenham" from Sefton and
>Northampton respectively.

<snip>

>If Ufology is a subject of little or no concern to outside
>parties, or those with the ability to hoax, intercept and tap,
>then one wonders why these things continue to happen.

>We will make photographs of the odd couple available within the
>next few days....

>British UFO Studies Centre, March 9th 1999.

>matthews@zetnet.co.uk bufosc@compuserve.com

>British UFO Studies Centre, 78 Greenall Rd, Northwich, Cheshire
>CW9 5RN.

BUFOSC & List,

Congratulations on a great post! This is good quality detective
work and the sooner we rid the scene of 'ratbags' like these the
better off we'll be. Well done.

Regards,

Leanne.








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                     'The Congressman Who Loved Science'

From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 23:51:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:15:19 -0500
Subject: 'The Congressman Who Loved Science'


Listophiles,

The following is a question and answer from a recent interview
which may be of interest to readers of this List.

Representative George E. Brown Jr. of California is the ranking
Democrat on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technolgy.
He has been called the "Dean of the Congressional science
buffs". He has served for more than 30 years on the House
Science Committee.

His response to the question is most interesting; one might term
this a "fully baked answer". Certainly there are a myriad of
ways in which this question could could have been answered, no
doubt readers on this List may find this particular response
pregnant with meaning.

Gary Alevy

------------

From: New York Times Science Section, Page F3, March 9, 1999.
      New York City Edition


A Conversation With Representative George E. Brown Jr.
The Congressman Who Loved Science

By Claudia Dreyfus

----------------------------------------------
Abstracted from the article of the above title.
----------------------------------------------


Q. Where do you vote on the "is there other life out there"
   question?

A. I consider the probability that there is other intelligent
   life in the universe overwhelming. And we will ultimately
   find it. It may not be exactly what we think it ought to be,
   but it will be intelligent life. It may be far more
   intelligent than we are. And that will be an interesting
   situation. How do we deal with a situation where we are
   encountering someone with vastly superior intellectual powers
   to ourselves? Now, I'm not fearful of that. Because highly
   evolved life will not be looking at new life forms as enemies.
   They will be looking on them as their children who need to be
   encouraged to develop even further.







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                        UFOs Over Las Pampas, Mexico

From: Guillermo Alarcon <Gaia2012@webtv.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:20:42 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:37:51 -0500
Subject: UFOs Over Las Pampas, Mexico


I have just recived a phone call from guia_ovnis@infosel.com.mx

They have more UFO Sightings over Monterrey. Last week's
sightings were captured by a TV station..

I will try to keep you informed..

Sincerely,

Guillermo Alarcon..






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                       Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

From: Christophe Meessen <meessen@mailclub.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:50:30 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:45:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets


>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:41:33 -0500
>From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Betty Hill's Map of Planets
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


Hello,

Thanks for the new publication of this page.

As Joachim reported, I find this idea sufficiently impressing to
justify deeper investigation.

I'm currently studying this map. More precisely trying to find
the best view point and date matching the map but by using
numerical methods.

From what I could see with solar systems viewing programs
controled "by hand" , Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and the Sun match
quite nicely. The relative position of the earth is acceptable
and Mercury too if we consider the solar system 1 month after
the reported incident.

What is not acceptable for now, as far as I could go in my
investigation with the programs available, is the relative
distance of Mercury with the Earth and the Sun. Mercury is too
far from the sun or the earth is too close from Mercury. The
programs where not accurate enough to decide. And finaly the
position of Venus I saw is very different from what is suggested
by Koch and Kyborg.

Relative circle size has also a few problems problems. But
nothing that can definitively rule out the solar system
interpretation.

So, there are indeed problems with the matching of the map with
our solar system. But I'm afraid it will not be possible to
decide if these differences are due to drawing errors or because
the map does not represent our solar system.

For now I would say that there are a sufficient number of
striking arguments to justify further investigation even if we
might be limited in the confidence by the drawings accuracy.

I would like to know if it is possible to get a high resolution
scan of the Betty Hill map and if possible of the original
drawing?

Second if any further investigation was made directly with Betty
Hill on the given map? Are there other versions of the map?
Would it be possible to get a new version of the map?

I would suggest a Hypnosis session where a computer made drawing
is shown and points and lines are moved arround by hand until we
can reach the best match with the picture she might remember. In
other words, it would be a big help if we could get other and
more accurate data.

Finally I would also say that I'm not currently satisfied by the
line interpretation proposed by Joachim. If the map represents
our solar system, it means that it is constantly changing and
that the real distance between points represented by the map are
also constantly changing. The distance between Jupiter and
Saturn can be much bigger than between planets or asteroids
linked with dashed lines on the map and tagged as "exploration
routes".

So for now I would say that if the map shows a configuration of
a dynamic system (i.e. our solar system) at a given time, it is
more probable that the porposed "trade routes" may also be a
dynamic configuration corresponding to the given time.

For instance a month before, where Mercury is in front of the
Sun, I doubt that the "trade route" linking Jupiter to Venus
would still pass by Mercury. So I have a few doubts with the
"iron route" interpretation proposed by Koch and Kyborg.

But this does not reduce the quality of the base idea that the
map may match our Solar system.

Ch. Meessen






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                        Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:38:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:16:14 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'


>>Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 00:41:14 -0500
>>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>>It is obvious that my messages on J. Allen Hynek have hit home
>>and hit hard as both you and Mr. Sandow have chosen not to
>>respond to my final post in the series, Re: 25 Rules of
>>Disinformation.

Dream on, Gary. Maybe you're just not worth responding to.

Greg Sandow






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                         Re: UFO and Suicide Cults?

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:37:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:33:26 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO and Suicide Cults?


>From: Craig Evry <96013307@student.darlington.ac.uk>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Can you help???
>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 18:54:36 -0000
>[Non-Subscriber Post]

>I was wondering if you could help me - I am trying to look for
>information and interviews for people who are knowledgable about
>UFO and Suicide Cults.

>I am in the final year of a journalism degree in England and I
>am doing my major dissertation on conspiracy theories and this
>is one aspect of my study and I would appreciate any help that
>you can give me.

Craig,

UFOs and cults unfortunately are often mistaken for one in the
same when it comes to beliefs.  Media, Heavens Gate, etc. have
all contributed to this misconception.

Those who believe in UFOs are not usually members of any
group/organization.  They are believers based on their own
experiences and 'feelings'.  No one goes knocking door-to-door
to recruit people into believing.  You've either seen one or you
haven't, you either believe there is live outside our planet, or
you don't.  It is usually the experiencer that goes looking for
someone who has similar experiences, or who can help them
understand what they are going through.

This is a 'Free Will' phenomena, no hostages here, sorry.

Conferences are held to inform, not encourage, what may be, not
what is the law.  Scientists, astronomers, psychologists, and
many, many more credible people with degrees and not, are
involved in the study of UFOs.  These people do not associate
themselves with cults, thereby clearing ufology of the 'cult'
label.

Unfortunately, there are some 'cults' which include ufology in
their 'teachings' or 'mind-control' processes which you may say
bunches their apples with ufology's oranges, which as seen with
Heaven's Gate produced a bitter-sweet tragedy. This is an
isolated case and if you research further you will find there
have been no other cases like this.  However there have been
many tragedies within cult circles, which don't even associate
their beliefs with ufology.

Hope this clears the picture a little.

Sue






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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #293

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:50:40 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:37:42 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #293


Apology to MW #293 (For February 13, 1999)

Ollie North sells _drugs_ to kids, and gets a TV show; this is
what the space folk see as tortured Earth coasts by below --
indifference to the suffering, the kingpins making plans,
polluting all the water, and then scourging living land. Our
life's a defecation that they push down with their feet upon the
heads of innocence they treat like senseless meat. And we_ would
have the space folk land to suffer equal treatment? We would
question their reluctance to abandon safe *concealment*? We
would be consorting with a killer, rapist  -- worse? Well, a
watcher, sure, won't either, and they watch us blame and curse!

I think it likely they avoid us to preclude our _sure_
embarrassment. Our guilt is _just_ contained, now, as it is.
Imagine for a moment that they _land_, abruptly visit -- and we
find that their first action is a quiz. They ask the shaming
questions of the man out on the street. Why are schools so
damned exclusive? Isn't truth a basic need? Why do children have
old text books that are tattered and outmoded, and why in turn
discount their need, or lie, at best, encode it? Where does all
their _guilt_ come from? Why push sex in their face, and then
impugn the honor of the one that has a taste?  Why promote
_true_ child abuse producing balls and shoes for children with
some privileges the _makers_ are excused? Why suffer abject
hunger just to keep your burger stands? Why single-serve your
foodstuffs, laying waste to living land.  Don't you hear your
Earth? It's shrieking! Don't you know you make it _mad_? Do you
know -- you make it mad enough (?) it'll turn; you won't be
glad!  Cornered, it attacks you, pard, like _any_ wild beast --
like any man or woman that is fed up on what's least. Wounded,
is it striking _back_ (!), with AIDS or with EBOLA? Our *answer*
is to send _nerve_ gas, and munitions to Angola! Cranking up
*those* factories that provide for Earth's abuse, so a precious
few can pick capped teeth with diamond studded spruce.

I'm hearing protests all the time, the star folk hear them, too.
People wonder happenings, what's going on -- what's true. You
won't read it in a magazine if it interferes with sales.  It's
not picked up in papers if an *inconvenient* tale. You won't
hear it on the telly, or your short wave crystal set if it
crosses moneyed interest; that's a sure thing -- odds on bet.
It's the lesser using greater to a hazardous effect, not using
greener methods to preclude our failed test! It's standing on
the shoulders of the masses down below, unfortunates with chins
in shit that we just dump and throw. It's MOST of us beneath
respect; it's _most_ of us that suffer; it's persecution sans
regret we _have_ for ONE ANOTHER! Why would star folk ask for
_that_? They figure they're mere strangers. If we gut and screw
our own that fast, why -- we'd put _them_ through a mangler.

It explains their obfuscation while remaining omnipresent? You
hear, and see them every day; you won't get through without it.
It shimmers on the telly, a contention of the truth -- that we
are not at _all_ alone, and we should not feel aloof. You hear
it on talk radio; you hear it by the by; you hear it from the
Christians (but you burn in hell to try). You hear it from your
Mom and Dad, but it won't change a thing -- they've figured out
their futures and they've _planned_ what it will bring <g>. You
hear it from the mainstream, smirking tongues in pretty cheeks.
You hear judicious trickles, or the rumored lies and leaks. You
hear its misdirection, but you hear it without end. You hear
when you don't want to, some abductees shall contend. Science's
talking microbes to prepare us from without to admit at last
they're clueless as to what it's all about.

Rather, gather friends together, and relieve a neighbors want.
We should ask for toleration, and then read from different
fonts. We should give a sucker even breaks, and kiss each
other's cheeks. Muslim, Jew? Embrace 'em all -- conservatives
and freaks! Have compassion and respect for _all_ on global,
world scales, and star folk will approach us and invite us on
their trail. Can you dig it? We may scare them! We may _keep_
them out of sight! We might shock them with our attitudes, and
instill in them our fright! Perhaps their strange technologies
may be gifts too great to chance on the backwoods country
bumpkins we portray, so they're askance.  Perhaps they're close
to whackin' us (perhaps been done before). Perhaps extermination
_is_ the meter, rhyme, and score. If it is we sure deserve it
for the liberties we take, for abusing one another for a
dollar's charmless sake.  For savaged Earth, when we _know_
better, its _beasts_ all have more honor! The multiverse awaits
us -- we continue its dishonor.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

It seems to me illogical that aliens have figured out a way to
make corruption work for the long term. That's what they have
done if their potential impact is as negative as some make out.
Given the (however tenuous) evidence that there are multiple
species indicates a potential for a struggle between them
_beyond_ what would not be visible -- even to us. We'd see that
kind of struggle -- n'est ce pas? That speaks to a civility
among _them_ that transcends what we are capable of (even) in
our limited microcosm. Our behavior, seen from their alien view,
must be, at least, unsettling in comparison. And, in comparison
to what? We may be prince or princess, beings of shining light
-- but I don't think so.

If we accepted that human beings, generally, have at best a
myopically shallow view of a real world, perhaps they are ready,
more, _deserving_ of the shock and disruption that the birth of
gross humanity (into a multiverse of other beings) is sure to
bring. No one asks the child spit forth from the indifferent
womb whether the shock of that birth is an inconvenience -- so
it is, also, for a birth of a total humanity of fervid
individuals into the wide open universe at large.

Restore John Ford!

Bear with me, folks, I think there's a tie in.


--
Explore the Alien View!
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
"Unstill Life" -- Animation
. . . and more.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

<Updated 8 February>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.

"Only thin, _very light_ envelopes with a return address will be
accepted <g>." ~~~ $250.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected ~~~

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.






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                           UFO Toll-Free Numbers?

From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:49:38 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:43:57 -0500
Subject: UFO Toll-Free Numbers?


Hello,

I'm here in Brazil trying to do a thing that has in your country
for years, it's a UFO Toll-Free Number.

How it's works? Who pick up the phone and speak with the person?
A simply employee do it? Does he/she have training?

Does your telephone company or you charge for this service?

There's a "central" to get all the calls, and them send the
informations to research groups in the regions where the
sighting happened? How it works?

Them they give to you a conclusion?

Do you release it to the press or/and to the public? By what,
newspaper, radio shows, TV...

Sorry for so many questions.

Thank you very much for your help.


THIAGO LUIZ TICCHETTI
Diretor Do Departamento de Publica=E7=E3o e Tradu=E7=E3o Especializadas
( DEPTE - EBE-ET / Brasilia-Brasil)
Director of the Publication Department and Specialized Translation
ICQ - 22841973







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                            Re: Bell is no Rense

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:13:05 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 01:02:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:;
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Bell is no Rense
>Date: 10 March 1999 13:55

>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 21:36:11 -0700
>From: Ron Bach <roam5@utinet.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net <And Others>
>Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense

>Dear Art,

>ArtBell@aol.com wrote:

>>To the list that is forced to read this dribble, I apoligize
>>for Richard, not to him. He needs help.

>>Yes, we all need to pray for Richard and no one here wishes
>>Richard any harm. who take up with him only sink to his level.
>>Even Joe Firmage has finally had enough. Have you?

>>Art Bell

>Again, why this incessant 'grouping' and what are 'levels'?

>I fully support Judith Dale, Robert Stephens, Ralph Greenberg,
>Amargi Hillier, and several others on Rowland Net BBS for their
>legitimate questions regarding proof of any of Richard's claims.

>Jeff Rense also provided me with a venue to challenge Richard
>Hoagland alongside Steven Greer and Greer camp has since
>answered the questions and treated me very kindly and decently.

Jeff Rense is way out ahead of the others if you ask me. He,
apart from Michael Corbin, has been the only guy prepared to
allow me to tell the truth about Man-Made UFOs on his excellent
show. He allows the whole range of opinion - and that IS free
speech......

All power to "Sightings On the Radio" of you ask me. In this
case, I KNOW I'm not alone......!

As to proof of any claims made - this is an interesting
concept......






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                            David Jacobs Website

From: Diane Lovett <rambld@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:29:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 01:23:15 -0500
Subject: David Jacobs Website

Updates,

Just wanted to share with any who may not yet know about it that
David Jacobs has a new website up. It promises to be very
interesting and good source for information in the future. Have
a look at http://www.ufoabduction.com/

Diane


Where do you want to go......tomorrow?
http://www.futurepaths.com





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                      CPR-Canada News - March 10, 1999

From: Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:58:58 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:44:39 -0500
Subject: CPR-Canada News - March 10, 1999



CPR-Canada News
E-Mail Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada

March 10, 1999


Next Fields of Dreams Crop Circle Lecture, Crop
Circles in Peru, Oliver's Castle Confession Video
on Japanese TV, From Fossils to Crop Circles,
"Weather Radar Circles" - Updates

_____________________________


FIELDS OF DREAMS LECTURE SERIES

* Next Fields of Dreams Crop Circle Lecture
   on March 22 in Vancouver, BC


NEWS AND REPORTS

* Crop Circles in Peru: First Report for 1999!
* Oliver's Castle Confession Video to be Aired on
   Japanese Nippon TV, by Colin Andrews
* From Fossils to Crop Circles, by Colin Andrews
* "Weather Radar Circles": A New Phenomenon?
   - Updated

_____________________________


See News and Reports on the CPR-Canada web site
for links to current news updates and an archive of
previous news, as well as information on other
CPR-Canada resources:

Main CPR-Canada Web Site (frames):
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310

News and Reports:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/news.html

Crop Circle Reports in Canada 1999:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html

_____________________________


CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of
Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, an affiliate
of Circles Phenomenon Research International,
initiated in 1995 by future studies researcher
Paul Anderson, also founder and director of
The Millennium Project.

CPR-Canada News is published periodically, with
the latest news, information and web site updates
and is available free by subscription; to be added to
or removed from the mailing list, send your request,
including either "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or
"unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address
to

CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions,
by the tel / fax / e-mail hotlines or mail. Forward
all correspondence to:

E-Mail:
psa@direct.ca

Tel / Fax:
604.731.8522

Mail:
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC V6J 1J

____________________________


=A9 CPR-Canada, 1999



Paul Anderson

Founder / Director
THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT
Main Web Site (frames): http://persweb.direct.ca/psa
The Millennium Report: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/tmr.html
Special Research Projects: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/srp.html

Director
CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International
Main Web Site (frames): http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310
1999 Updates: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html

Representative
BLT RESEARCH, INC.

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4
Tel / Fax:  604.731.8522
E-Mail:  psa@direct.ca






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                        New Italian & Peru Sightings

From: Notiziario UFO <notiziario.ufo@flashnet.it>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:59:39 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:53:52 -0500
Subject: New Italian & Peru Sightings



Monday 8 March, Mr. Alfredo Di Prinzio saw a UFO in Rome at 10
a.m. directly above the St. Agnese church by Borromini architect
in Navona Square. The object was silver and oval-shaped and had
a jerky moviment in the sky. More people saw the object because
in that hour the square was busy with tourists. One peerson got
a photo and we are trying to find him. The object suddnly
disappeared.



UFO above Inca Ruins

Yesterday, 9 march 1999 a beautifull photo was sent to us by our
correspondent in Udine. A photo showing a golden object hovering
above Inca ruins of Pisaq in Peru. The photo was shot by
Silvia Z., the girlfriend of our correspondent during a vacation
in Per=F9 in the summer 1998. The date of event was 16 August.

The object is there in the negative film too.Analysis by a
photo laboratory have excluded a fault on the film and in the
developing process. Computer analysis are on going at this
moment by our computer expert.

If the photo is real, I think that the object could be a light
craft or Apu (the Incas call them spirits).


Adriano Forgione
Head Journalist
Notiziario UFO
(Rome-Italy)








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                          New UK NW Sightings 03-99

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:07:08 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:56:26 -0500
Subject: New UK NW Sightings 03-99


The first event was reported on 10/3/99 by a man from Banks,
Southport who, when driving along the coastal road on 9/3/99 at
1430 hrs when he saw what is described as a "large, silver
elongated UFO like a Frisbee" travelling slowly before moving
off "horizontally" at high speed. Given the apparent size of the
object other reports should be forthcoming.

Secondly we have a report from a taxi driver in Southport who
reported his sighting both to LUFOS and to the Southport
Champion newspaper. He was on Scarisbrick New Road on 26/2/99 at
9pm when he saw a blue light behaving erratically. He said;

"It was definitely not normal - I have never seen an aircraft
move like a fly. I just wish I had a camera with me."

Interestingly enough there have been other sightings of
anomalous lights in the area as well as sightings of a small
triangular craft over Kew stretching back several years.

Another new sighting relates to an object seen just below the
clouds on 2/2/99 above Ashurst Beacon and the nearby golf
course. The witness, a man from Up Holland near Skelmersdale,
said that other aircraft passed near the object between 1830 and
1840 hrs and that it hovered whilst appearing to produce "fast
bursts of light" quite unlike any aircraft he had seen locally.

On 8/3/99 two witnesses Joanna G and Debbie R, from Birkdale,
saw an unusual object moving slowly in 'small semi circles' and
changing colours. It is likely that the object was in fact a
star seen on an especially bright night. Their sighting took
place between 2125 and 2145hrs.

Tim Matthews - Lancashire UFO Society.






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                              Bell Evades Truth

From: Richard J. Harvey <rjh1006@multipro.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:02:05 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:03:09 -0500
Subject: Bell Evades Truth


There are indeed known liars that have attacked Richard
Hoagland, the person, instead of going after his science as Art
Bell has said several times during the last few shows.

However, there are many people on this List, on UseNet
discussion groups, the IRC, etc. that have been discussing
Richard Hoagland's claim of discovering the Abydos glyphs.

On the page

http://www.enterprisemission.com/opentomb.html

it says "Hoagland's Abydos discovery was verified in November
1998 by a Fox television crew's own several hundred mile trek to
the SETI-I temple at Abydos,..."

This is not true.

Richard Hoagland did not discover these glyphs.

It is well known that photographs of these interesting ancient
carvings have been posted on several websites for over the last
2-3 years.

See the article at

http://www.sightings.com/ufo2/remedy.htm

for more information regarding this.

So, Art, on his show, attacks people that attack Richard.  But
he doesn't have the balls to read statements from people that
have emailed and faxed him several times regarding this matter.

In fact, after Richard Hoagland recovers, I doubt he will bring
up this matter in any future show.

What is comes down to is that Art Bell, when pressed against the
wall in issues regarding the truth will say this,

"Hey, it's just an entertainment program..."

So the millions of listeners out there in the world get no
closer to the truth, and Art Bell continues to make money like a
porn magazine -  both providing a service that doesn't better
the world.

One day, he will wonder why bad things happen to him...  We
already know why...

And Ed Dames will be on Friday...  That's another story...  Same
thing really as above...








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                           Re: Meier Case - Redux

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:33:29 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:35:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux


>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:48:15 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux

>>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>>Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 5:35 PM
>>To: Skywatch International Inc.
>>Subject: Meier Case - Redux

>>No one was talking about holes in the ozone layer in March of
>>1975.
>>Yet, here is Semajse giving Meier detailed warnings of something
>>that would not even be scientifically observed and verified
>>until 1985!

>Sorry to disappoint you Kim but back in 1975/76 I took a course
>here at York University titled Chemistry of the Atmosphere which
>was taught by Prof. Harold Shiff (no relation to Semajse).  We
>learned all about CFCs and their effect on the ozone layer in
>much detail in this course.  Dr. Shiff liked to boast how he, as
>advisor to President Lyndon B. Johnson (term ended January
>1969), was responsible for the cancellation of the U.S. SST
>project through his research findings on CLCs and its threat to
>the ozone layer and ultimately the whole world.  Although the
>ozone layer may not have been a term commonly used by the public
>in the 1960's, it was news in the 1970's, at least among people
>who read newspapers like you, me and Meier.

>Dr. Shiff told me he was a friend and admirer of Dr. James
>McDonad of UFO fame who died in June 1971.  Although Dr. Shiff
>did not seem to take UFOs seriously, he fully supported Dr.
>McDonald's efforts to stop U.S. funding for a fleet of SSTs that
>would quickly destroy Earth's fragile ozone layer.

>Seems to me that space aliens learned a lot from our scientists
>since I certainly didn't tell them anything. ;o)


Nick,

You missed or misinterpreted Kim's points, as well as mine in a
subsequent post. Neither of us was claiming that it was unknown
in 1975 that CFC's would have a destructive effect upon the
ozone layer. As you say, that dates back to around 1969 or 1970.
But (1) go back and search for the phrase "ozone hole" and you
won't find it until in the 1980's. And (2) go back and search
for the thought that bromine, not just chlorine (and fluorine),
would be responsible for much ozone destruction. Again you won't
find it until in the 1980s. (CFC = chloro-fluoro-carbon fails to
contain a "B" that would stand for "bromo.") These were the two
items re O3 that Meier was clued to by his ET contactor that
aroused interest. However, as I pointed out, ozone holes
(plural), rather than the singular seasonal ozone hole over
Antarctica, have yet to be observed as far as I know.





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                       Unidentified Submerged Objects

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:40:41 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:49:32 -0500
Subject: Unidentified Submerged Objects



From: Melvin Podell <mpodell@juno.com>

I have details of a case in which a number of observers off the
coast at Pt. Loma, California watched as two submerged objects
emerged from the waters and took off rapidly into the sky.

This is off San Diego, California and not a test area since only
a few hundred feet offshore.

Advise if you want more details.


Mel Podell
mpodell@juno.com
Website at http://n6rpf.com-us.net
The San Diego UFO Information Homepage





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              Earth Changes TV: Bell Slanders Rense and Others

From: Mitch Battros <earthcng@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:31:19 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:58:48 -0500
Subject: Earth Changes TV: Bell Slanders Rense and Others

Earth Changes TV/Breaking News

Art Bell Slanders Jeff Rense And Others, Is This a Side Of Art
Unseen...03/10/99

by: Mitch Battros (ECTV)

Art Bell over the last two days has lashed out at anyone who
criticizes Richard Hoagland for any reason.

Understandably, we can have sympathy for a person who is upset
and concerned for a dear friend over a life threatening
situation, but Art's methods have disturbed many.

<snip>

The most disturbing to this writer was Art Bell's accusation
that those who have differed with Richard Hoagland  "Caused His
Heart Attack - It Is Their Fault". In my humble opinion, this
has crossed the line.

Not withstanding, we at Earth Changes TV, continue to wish
Richard Hoagland a speedy recovery.

<snip of messages already posted to UpDates>

Earth Changes TV stands by it's original statement posted 03/08/99

Earth Changes TV, and all it's staff, give it's deepest regrets
and condolence to Richard Hoagland as a result of a life
threatening misfortune. We wish him a speedy recovery filled
with blessings and warmth. It was never Richard the man under
ridicule, it was simply his message and actions.

Response to Art Bell's comments directing "shame" to those who
have been critical of Mr. Hoagland and holding him responsible
for his actions, I say this...Art Bell, you should be ashamed of
yourself for using this time to lash out with spite and
vindictiveness, when compassion and stillness are needed. Your
comments tell more of your true essence, than any other. It is
you who so often reflect statements such as " I am filled with
revenge, I go after someone until there is nothing left of them,
I am vengence"....One needs only to reflect what you did to
Courtney Brown and Robert Stephens among others. You seem to
always gang up on people. I've noticed your two favorites are
Whitley Strieber and Richard Hoagland when you selectively
strike out and "attack"....Sorry Mr. Bell, I will not follow
your lead.

Most Sincerely,
Mitch Battros
Producer - Earth Changes TV
http://www.earthchangesTV.com






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              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:19:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:01:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed


>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 15:45:26 -0800
>From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
>>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 19:50:03 EST
>>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed.

>>Secret Government Technology
>>by Edgar Rothschild Fouche
>>Copyright 1998, Fouche Media Associates
>>http://fouchemedia.com/arap/speech.htm

>>     Presentation By Edgar Rothschild Fouche

>>     International UFO Congress

>>       Laughlin, Nevada 1998

>>It is written as a fiction
>>story with characters on a quest, to uncover the truth, much
>>like the one my five friends and I started out on. Ive just
>>barely scratched the surface of the details and facts presented
>>in Alien Rapture.

>The term "facts" has taken on new meaning, I guess.  I was very
>excited to read this book after having seen Ed Fouche's
>presentation at MUFON LA a few weeks ago.  In one of the first
>chapters, however, was the story of a downed military plane with
>the crew mutilated cattle-mutilation style.  I recognized this
>story as one that has circulated for years, usually set in
>Vietnam during the war.  In Fouche's book the story was set in
>Korea.

<snip>

>>Whats really strange many people can believe in an alien
>>triangle, but not one built and flown by the US department of
>>defense.

>That's easy...show us the evidence!  And don't, next time, mix
>it with equal parts fantasy, hoax and rumor.  Fouche has
>completely taken himself out of the picture as a credible UFO
>source or researcher.  Nice work. :-(>

Dear Skye,

Thanks for helping people to "see the light." There are
charlatans running around out there who "have the answer." The
old adage, "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is,"
holds here.

If the USA had devices such as Fouche claims, you can bet they
wouldn't be casually traveling around willy-nilly for people to
see, photograph, and provide info to those who would do us ill.

People at the cutting edge of physics don't know how to do
"gravity reduction" or "anti-gravity", yet Fouche would have us
believe that some group of people "inside the government" have
learned this and have made numerous craft based on this
knowledge, presumably back-engineered from Alien Flying Craft
(AFC).

Do I think AFC are real? Yes.

Do I think Uncle Sam (along with some industrial company) has
understood and applied AFC technology and allowed it to be flown
around the USA and the world? No.






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                Phoenix Lights vs. the TR-3B Flying Triangle

From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:16:58 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:06:04 -0500
Subject: Phoenix Lights vs. the TR-3B Flying Triangle


I agree with others that I am having a time hard believing the
data on Ed Fouche's website and in his book "Alien Rapture".

Fouche's Website = http://www.fouchemedia.com

After all, if it were absolutely true, why is that data still
there on the web, and why is Ed still walking around? We are
taking here of data from S-4 (cf - Bob Lazar), not Groom Lake.
Much more sensitive data...

Also -

I'd like to remind all of you that at the Feb. 1999
International UFO Congress, Peter Davenport (of the US UFO
Reporting Center) gave a real good talk which included a
detailed summary of the "Phoenix Triangle" events of March 13,
1997. I have an audiotape of his talk, and they are available
NOW from the Congress, at http://www.ufocongress.com.

That was NOT any TR-3B.

Several witnesses described it as a huge flying wing, with five
lights (not 3), and how it was 4 fist-lengths long (at arms
length) when it stopped over Phoenix, Peter said at 7,000 to
10,000 feet, so this would make that craft somewhere between 1
and 2 MILES long.

That size seems too big! Too bad.

A mom and her kids all saw it for over 3 minutes. It stopped
dead over them for at least 3 minutes, absolutely silent.

An F-15 pilot from Luke AFB (2 F-15s used for Air Force 1 and 2
cover, not assigned to the base) intercepted the craft. An
audiotape from an airman at the base says that the base was
"closed" after the intercept. Peter said the pilot had to be
lifted from his cockpit seat (shock?). Peter also said that the
US may have gone to DEFCON 3 that day, and if so, that would
account for how Pres. Clinton may have injured his knee (running
from the AU golf player's house in FL(?) to a safe haven). It
all seems to fit...

You don't believe me? Here's the transcript of that airman's
tape:

http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/CB970313a.html .

Other witnesses on that tape describe how it took them 2.5
minutes to go underneath that craft at 80 mph, when they were
going North into Phoenix. One witness was there at the Congress
and personally testified on the micreophone to that statement -
she came all the way from Tuscon just to do that for Peter.
[2.5*60]*[80*(88/60)]/5280 = 3.3 miles!

The Phoenix Lights were this (or perhaps several) large
triangles!

They were not the lights, flares, or whatever they were - that
hung in the air and traced the outline of the ridge of a local
mountain range an hour (or 2 hours?) after the triangle(s)
passed over Phoenix.

Get it right!


US UFO Reporting Center: http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/


PB.
http://www.padrak.com/ufo/

For the first time in all my years of research, I am truly in awe.






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              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:32:59 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:07:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed


>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 15:45:26 -0800
>From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

<snip>

>The term "facts" has taken on new meaning, I guess.  I was very
>excited to read this book after having seen Ed Fouche's
>presentation at MUFON LA a few weeks ago.  In one of the first
>chapters, however, was the story of a downed military plane with
>the crew mutilated cattle-mutilation style.  I recognized this
>story as one that has circulated for years, usually set in
>Vietnam during the war.  In Fouche's book the story was set in
>Korea.

>Thing is, Linda Moulton Howe said that she tried to verify the
>Vietnam story (some years ago) and was unable to come up with
>ANY evidence for it.  Yet, here it is presented again as part of
>a book that is supposedly "factual," but for some names changed
>to protect the innocent, which is the only way Fouche would be
>allowed to publish his story.

Clifford E. Stone related a similar story about a downed B-52,
killed American airmen and encounters with alien creatures on
Jeff Rense's Sightings show for July 31 (about 1 hour 15 minutes
into this archived show).

Unlike Ed Fouche, Clifford Stone claimed to have actually been
there (Cambodia?) himself in 1969 after making a stop at a large
airfield in Vietnam.  Although Clifford Stone also claims to
have been present at many UFO crash retrievals, the story he
told on Jeff Rense's show suggested that this incident with the
downed B-52 may not have been unique.

Does anyone have anything to add in support of the reality of
such stories (apart from the "new" MJ-12 documents)?

Nick Balaskas







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   Mar > Mar 11

                       UK Hoax - Yet More Information

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:24:35 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:15:44 -0500
Subject: UK Hoax - Yet More Information


Dear All,

Further developments have taken place. BUFOSC investigators have
now spoken with 100 local people including those living nearest
to the site of the supposed "landing". Not only had nobody heard
or seen anything remotely resembling a UFO but the
damaged/flattened area had been there for weeks _prior_ to the
supposed events of Sunday night/Monday morning. This means that
"Wenham" and "Sutton" probably sought out a flattened area in
order to try and tie their false report in with the UFO 'landing
and trace' case literature _and_ from an historical point of view.

Also a 'long-lost sister' of the female 'witness' has emerged
from the woodwork as well as new information on the location of
Room 204 at the Royal George Hotel, Knutsford, from which the
two people claimed to have been able to see the "Nine UFOs"
descending on the night in question! It is _not_ possible to see
the area in question - or indeed anything much - from the
vantage point they had claimed to be in.....

"Wenham" also asked BUFOSC investigators how he and "Sutton"
could make quick money from the sighting. Perhaps money was a
motive.....? He had, in fact, been arrested on the Sunday at a
football match and subsequently released by Police in Manchester
after trouble at the game against Chelsea. He told several
investigators this interesting little fact. He thought he was
very heroic.....

Furthermore the female witness told her boss that she was ill
when in fact she was in Cheshire . I phoned her boss again
yesterday and she is _still_ claiming to be ill despite the fact
that she has been out and about in the last few days. The boss
commented earlier on this week to Eric Morris (after "Sutton"
had begged him to ring the guy and say that she was "traumatized
by her close encounter experience") that he would never trust
her again......

A man claiming to be her father phoned me tonight and despite
her having told me that she was originally from Northampton and
had been called "Caroline Bradley" prior to her marriage he
denied all knowledge of this!! But get this; when he first
phoned my number I was out walking the dogs. He told my wife
that he was "a colleague" of mine which she instantly knew to be
a lie!!

What has the world come to when people are prepared to go to
such extraordinary lengths to try and mislead researchers?

Is there something sinister lurking behind this web of intrigue,
inconsistency and discrepancy??

One thing is for sure; you can forget your training courses for
investigators. All they need to so is to follow the trail and
look for the details, as we have in this case from the start,
and they will be successful. This most unusual case indicates,
above all, that the British UFO Studies Centre is ready, willing
and able to investigate cases in minute detail in order to check
and verify claims made by witnesses.

I think we deserve 11 out of 10 on this one.

Beware hoaxers!!

Tim Matthews - Press Officer, British UFO Studies Centre.






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   Mar > Mar 11

                    [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?

From: Geri & Alfred Webre <ecotoday@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:19:25 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:35:03 -0500
Subject: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?


This was posted by on MC Mind Control by K Kasten of the Dept.
of Pathology, UCLA Medical School:

Geri & Alfred Webre

-----

From: Kathy Kasten <KKASTEN@pathology.medsch.ucla.edu>
To: MINDCONTROL-L@mail.sonic.net
Subject: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:09:00 -0800


Dear People:

Perhaps, you heard Art Bell last night discussing the time
period just prior to Richard Hoagland's heart attack and what
took place.

Through someone named Susan, Richard's significant other, Art
related Richard's "dream". It goes like this, Hoagland woke up
with what he described as radiation around his heart - not pain,
but radiation or radiating. 911 was called; the paramedics came
and declared that Richard was not suffering from a heart attack.
However, they decided to take him to the hospital for
evaluation. On the way to the hospital, in the ambulance,
Richard suffered a heart attack.

Hoagland is 53, does not smoke or drink, was in good health,
there is no family history of heart disease, there were no
symptoms prior to the attack.

The possibly for me is that Hoagland was in fact radiated/pulsed
to the brain cortex area that controls the heart. I am basing
this on my own experience with the heterodying pulse that came
through the RF/cellular phone signal relay unit in the ceiling
where I passed just before I began to feel "radiated". However,
unlike Richard, I was already in the hospital surrounded by
doctors who headed off a heart attack.

Your thoughts. Anybody else been the target of a pulsed "heart
attack"?






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   Mar > Mar 11

               Oliver's Castle Confession Video to be Aired on

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 03:49:21 GMT
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:37:18 -0500
Subject: Oliver's Castle Confession Video to be Aired on


Source: CPR-Canada News,

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/occonfession.html

Stig

***

Oliver's Castle Confession Video to be Aired on Japanese Nippon TV

By Colin Andrews

The Oliver's Castle video fraud:

John Wabes filmed confession to be aired by Nippon TV

A larger plan at work??

March 5, 1999

**

Today I have again tried to obtain permission to make copies of
the video sent to me, showing John Wabe confessing to
fraudulently making the Oliver's Castle video. My request has
been apologetically refused, but I have been told that I can
state who the owners of the material are and where I obtained
the out cuts from. Nippon Television based at their headquarters
in Tokyo sent the material at my request. It was sent on the
understanding it was for my on going investigation into the film
allegedly showing small UFOs making crop circles.

The contents of the video N.T.V. obtained from First Cut
studios, agreed with information obtained by a private detective
agency working for me some years earlier. As a result it was
felt that the research fraternity would appreciate knowing those
findings. Some limited controversy ensued and therefore I did my
level best to have the owners of this footage make it public.
After all it is true to say, that others should not be expected
to believe my own take without seeing it for themselves. Nippon
television have been most cooperative as usual but cannot
infringe upon the impact of an upcoming program on the subject.
They are making a 1999 program about Wabe.

When the material makes it into the public domain, I have no
doubt copies of the Wabe confession will be easily come by. Who
knows if this will end the disbelief by some that it was made by
people for people with malicious intent. For now I think this is
the best that anyone can do. My only rider is to say that I do
sense a larger plan, which this confession does not explain.
People both sides of the Atlantic have placed so much energy
supporting the video, against all rational evidence for a hoax,
one is left wondering why?? I can go only with my 'gut feeling'
in saying this.

I have several reasons for my uneasiness. One would be the
strange behavior noted during my several visits to a Las Vegas
office complex where video analysis was being undertaken. During
one of my visits several groups of men sat in offices close to
each other and very much aware of my presence. I felt a
nervousness they had with my presence and a definite alertness
to my questions and movements within the plush building. There
was a moment when I unexpectedly walked out of the studio to
visit the nearest bathroom/toilet. Two well dressed men ran in
different directions to observe my route. One became aware that
I had observed him as he slipped across a distant corridor and
into a long office running parallel to the corridor I was in, so
he made a very awkward approach to me to try and cover his out
of place behavior.

I have encountered several unusual moments of this kind with key
people actively trying to have this video accepted (at least
temporarily) by the public. I do think a bigger story exists.

No paranoia here I can assure you, just observation of events. I
suppose to speak from the heart, I would say it appears a body
of people larger than just one TV studio in England seems to
have planned for this video to be seen by the public. They have
tried to jump start it after an unexpected and early grounding.
Cleverly, the pace makers are not crop circle researchers but
are well placed professionals.


Sincerely Colin Andrews







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   Mar > Mar 11

                     Strange Marilyn Monroe CIA-Document

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:53:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:54:48 -0500
Subject: Strange Marilyn Monroe CIA-Document


The recent discussion of "Dorothy Kilgallen and UFOs" has
brought forth additional information for consideration.

With the help of Tony Spurrier and Geri & Alfred Webre,
information about an alleged 1962 CIA Document has been made
available for inspection on the internet. The alleged CIA
document is a surveillance report.

The document, dated two days before her death, alleges that she
had discussed a "secret air base" mentioned by President John F.
Kennedy, which contained "things from outer space."

An open appeal is being made to the UFO UpDates list members for
their assistance to help us gather more information about this
document. We seek to determine its authenticity and origin, or
if it is a hoax.

To see the document and gather more information, go to:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/MARILYN.htm

If anyone has further knowledge and could shed light on this,
comments and suggestions are welcome to the list or in private.

Thank you,
Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/





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   Mar > Mar 11

                    Bell - Facts vs. Fraud and Confusion

From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:57:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:51:41 -0500
Subject: Bell - Facts vs. Fraud and Confusion


>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 21:36:11 -0700
>From: Ron Bach <roam5@utinet.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net <And Others>
>Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense

>Jeff Rense also provided me with a venue to challenge Richard
>Hoagland alongside Steven Greer and Greer camp has since
>answered the questions and treated me very kindly and decently.

>I doubt that had my article not been posted on Jeff Rense's site,
>Greer camp may not have seen the necessity to answer and
>clarify. They did; and very convincingly. So please leave Jeff
>Rense or any other Journalists, Reporters out of this squabble.

Let me first say how _sincerely_ sorry I am to hear that Richard
has suffered a heart attack. My father has had three serious
heart attacks, I know what Richard's family and friends are all
going through. I sincerely wish Richard nothing but the best for
a full and speedy recovery from this unfortunate happening.

Bell,

Your comments about Rense and his show somehow having a direct
relationship to Richard's current health problems is total crap.

Rense has left an open invitation to Richard Hoagland (and
others) several times to appear on his program and answer claims
made against him. Yet few who appear on your program have taken
Rense up on his invitation. Why? Because they know Rense will ask
the real hard questions and won't just let them present any
ramblings to the public...Rense doesn't allow a free-for-all
format. His program presents both sides. You can't say the same.

Remember Chuck Schrameck? You had him on the air
crying wolf even after Linda Howe gave you the straight facts.
You were _extremely_ rude to Linda on your Dreamland program when
she presented evidence showing Schrameck's data was grossly
incorrect. You brushed her off and brought Schrameck back on the
air, dramatically announcing, "Now the other side of the story!"
You might as well have told Linda to get lost the way you treated
her. Why Linda wastes her time and talent on your program is
beyond me.

How about this: You criticize Rense on your program (of course
not having the balls to refer to him by name) as not being a
responsible broadcaster...I have two words for you: Hale-Bopp.

Oh, and let's not forget your melodramatic resignation which
you seemed to mention at every opportunity you had when you
returned to the air waves. That really seems out of character for
a man who said he didn't want to subject his family to anything
negative and was in some kind of terrible danger. If I'm wrong
about this, you can always tell us what happened.:)

Regarding proven frauds, you said that no responsible
broadcaster "would continue to give space or air time to this
kind of dribble." Yet you constantly continue to showcase a
parade of frauds on your show.

Isn't Robert Ghostwolf posing as a Native American?

And how about Dr. Jonathan Reed?

You had this fraud on your program and later received plenty of
evidence that his story was bogus. But instead of presenting
that evidence you chose to have Reed and his dirtbag partner
Raith back on the program twice.

You insulted the people who sent you the evidence (myself
sending it to you twice at _your_ request after I contacted you)
by calling them "pixel counters". You even questioned the
credentials of one person who contacted you regarding the
inconsistencies in Reed's photos. Too bad you can't be critical
of your guests.

Of course, you claim it's all "just entertainment."

You went on to endorse this fraud by exclaiming that the bogus
photos you received were printed on real Kodak paper. Never mind
the fact that I informed you via e-mail _and_ fax that there are
digital imaging systems that print digital photos on actual Kodak
paper. I can't speak for this person, but you even let Reed
associate Peter Davenport's good name with that shameless scam.

And let's not forget when the $1,000,000 UFO/EBE Challenge was
made to Reed. You apparently didn't like that and sent one of
your puppets to cloud up the issue by claiming you were owed the
million dollars for the scraps of metal you have. Why you didn't
come and make that claim yourself is still a mystery.

The criticism of Hoagland does indeed seem justified.

Hoagland not responding to the charges doesn't make him look any
better.

You said the "personal attacks" against Hoagland were being
perpetrated for "some mysterious reason by another website and
radio program, a reason that I simply cannot discern."

It really isn't that mysterious and if you had actually taken
the time to see what was being said you'd be aware that people
are charging Hoagland with plagiarism, an _extremely_ serious
charge among researchers in any circle.

It isn't a flake like Robert A.M. Stephens rambling.

Ralph Greenberg (professor of Mathematics, Seattle, WA.) says he
faxed you on several occasions regarding Hoagland's claim that
he wrote the first scientific paper regarding water on Europa.

Then there are the charges of Hoagland using photos from Egypt
that don't even belong to him.

Good grief, Hoagland has stuck a (C) copyright on a page with
the Egypt pictures and is using images from Star Wars.

Not once does the site give any reference or copyright credit to
anyone but the Enterprise Mission and Richard Hoagland.

I'm sure LucasFilm would not be too happy with that fact. You
seem to like ignoring information when it doesn't suit you.

At least Rense had the courtesy and standards to present the
findings of others on his program, which were _totally_ ignored
by you.

You seem to ignore people that challenge you or your guests in
any way. I've said this more than once: Don't cut yourself and
then point a bloody finger at someone else.

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III





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   Mar > Mar 11

                            Re: Bell is no Rense

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 03:02:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:21:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense

>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:13:05 -0000

>>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 21:36:11 -0700
>>From: Ron Bach <roam5@utinet.com>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net <And Others>
>>Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense

>>Dear Art,

<snip>

>>Jeff Rense also provided me with a venue to challenge Richard
>>Hoagland alongside Steven Greer and Greer camp has since
>>answered the questions and treated me very kindly and decently.

>Jeff Rense is way out ahead of the others if you ask me. He,
>apart from Michael Corbin, has been the only guy prepared to
>allow me to tell the truth about Man-Made UFOs on his excellent
>show. He allows the whole range of opinion - and that IS free
>speech......

>All power to "Sightings On the Radio" of you ask me. In this
>case, I KNOW I'm not alone......!

Hi Tim,

Add my name to the list. Jeff is in a class all by himself. The
guy is remarkable. He _knows_ the material, does his homework,
and it adds pure quality to all the interviews he conducts. I
can't say enough good things about him. He's one of the very few
that actually has the intelligence, intuition and a genuine
talent for his chosen profession.

John Velez, Webmaster IF-AIC





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   Mar > Mar 11

                          Re: David Jacobs Website

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 03:21:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:24:02 -0500
Subject: Re: David Jacobs Website


>From: Diane Lovett <rambld@erols.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: David Jacobs Website
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:29:14 -0500

>Updates,

>Just wanted to share with any who may not yet know about it that
>David Jacobs has a new website up. It promises to be very
>interesting and good source for information in the future. Have
>a look at http://www.ufoabduction.com/


Hi All,

I checked out the new site. Here's a copy of the e-mail I sent
to David.

Hi Dave,

Nice job on the website man. I'll put up a link to it from ours.
It's about time too! There aren't enough 'quality information'
web offerings out there for the abductees. Glad to have your
presence in cyberspace. Wait till the e-mails start rolling in.
Get ready to get busy!

Warm regards,

John

Well done presentation. I recommend a visit to all who are
interested in the subject.

Peace,

John Velez, Webmaster IF-AIC





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   Mar > Mar 11

                     Budd Hopkins On 'Sightings' Tonight

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 03:33:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:25:44 -0500
Subject: Budd Hopkins On 'Sightings' Tonight


Hi All,

Just a note. Budd will be appearing on Jeff Rense's "Sightings
on the Radio" tonight. (Thursday 11th) You can catch the
interview and call in if you wish at:

http://www.sightings.com

Check local listings for airtime in your neck of the woods.

Peace,

John Velez, Webmaster IF-AIC






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   Mar > Mar 11

                         Re: UFO and Suicide Cults?

From: Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research <iufor@frii.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:05:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:31:52 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO and Suicide Cults?


>From: Craig Evry <96013307@student.darlington.ac.uk>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Can you help???
>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 18:54:36 -0000

>[Non-Subscriber Post]

>I was wondering if you could help me - I am trying to look for
>information and interviews for people who are knowledgable about
>UFO and Suicide Cults.

>I am in the final year of a journalism degree in England and I
>am doing my major dissertation on conspiracy theories and this
>is one aspect of my study and I would appreciate any help that
>you can give me.


Does "UFO and Suicide Cults" mean UFO Cults and Suicide Cults,
or Cults who believe in UFOs and Suicide?

Possibly your dissertation would benefit from concentrating on a
single subject; dividing the focus between two unrelated topics
usually has the effect of diluting the impact of the
information.

Some "cults" as you put it, do incorporate some degree of belief
in UFOs; but their main focus is usually some aspect of
religion, and whether they believe in UFOs or not is generally a
side issue rather than the mainstay of their belief.

People interested in UFOs do not tend to aggregate in groups
normally thought of as "cults", unless your definition is so
broad as to include any sort of special-interest study group.
There are some exceptions to this out there on the fringes.

Some "cults" have been known to commit mass suicide; however, I
doubt that was their plan when they originally formed, and they
could only be identified as "suicide cults" (a term I mistrust)
after the fact. That being the case, you probably aren't going
to find any living members of suicide cults to talk to. They are
either dead, or their thinking has not yet led them to the point
where they are contemplating suicide.

Conspiracy theories, on the other hand, should provide a topic
rich in information, given that those who engage in such
comprise a much wider field than UFO groups and religious cults.
In fact, a simple web search on conspiracy should provide you
with enough leads to keep you busy for a long time. Paramilitary
and citizens' militia groups are generally full of it.  :-)

Best regards,
Bob
--
    INSTITUTE FOR UFO RESEARCH
----------------------------------
Bob Thrift, Fort Collins, Colorado
    http://www.frii.com/~iufor/
      email: iufor@frii.com







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   Mar > Mar 11

              Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 04:46:31 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:29:05 -0500
Subject: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial


Fellow Updates members,

On Tuesday my new edition of MUFON Journal arrived.

The cover story describes what may be what we have been hoping
for - the skeleton of an extraterrestrial. A paleontologist, the
late Dr. Slaughter's discovery of a unique skeleton discovered
in Texas. Dr.Slaughter was Professor of paleontology and the
director of the Shuler Museum at Southern Methodist University
at Dallas, TX. He examined it, casted it and removed it to his
lab for analysis. He wrote a technical report describing it as
the discovery of a new species of a new genus.

The cover of the Journal shows Walt Andrus holding the plaster
cast of this 39" tall being with four fingers, including a
thumb. The skeletal structure is unique, with most bones being
of bird-like hollowness. This is a humanoid with large
eyesockets as described on reputed greys. However, the head is
not extremely large for the body but contains a skull large
enough for high intelligence. There is a small nasal opening and
the bones taper down to a small mouth area. However the mouth
contains human resembling teeth, also unlike the mouth reported
on greys. In general it reminds me of the description of the
reported Roswell aliens. This skeleton is also clothed with a
linked pieces of glass vest, a metallic belt, and a swordlike
object of glass and metal. The object has a metal placard with a
rather regal symbol.

This skeleton was partially uncovered by natural erosion at a
location where a UFO landing was described in the 1890s. There
is no specific identifier of this being an extraterrestrial
being but it is a creature never before seen on Earth. Walt told
me about this find some months ago. Naturally I became very
excited and wanted to post the find here. Walt requested that I
say nothing until his story was published in the journal. This
may be the hard evidence, the hot smoking gun we have long
needed in Ufology.

Dr.Slaughter's widow donated the skeleton to MUFON where it will
be prominently displayed in the struggling museum. Dr.Slaughter
wrote a book titled "Fossil Remains of Mythical Creatures",
Smilo Doness Books, 1996, ISBN: 0965134903.

A chapter is dedicated to this find.

Sony is in preproduction of a film, written by the screenwriter
of "Contact". The movie is tentatively scheduled to star Paul
Newman as Dr. Slaughter. The film will be based on
Dr.Slaughter's book, which has a chapter titled Alien concerning
this skeleton.

My fellow researchers, even including the strange ones attacking
Jerry Clark, take a look at Walt's story in this issue and
please discuss it here on UFO UpDates.

On a humorous note, I learned a new term, fossilacious. I like
the hip ring of that term. It means a location abundant with
fossils. I can imagine my daughter telling me - Dad, you are
starting to look so old you're fossilacious.

Josh Goldstein






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   Mar > Mar 11

               Phoenix Lights - 2 Years Later: Special Report

From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:38:42 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:26:02 -0500
Subject: Phoenix Lights - 2 Years Later: Special Report


National UFO Reporting Center Special Report Phoenix Lights -
2 Years Later March 13, 1997

http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/phoenix.html

NUFORC Home Page

Saturday, March 13, 1999, marks the second anniversary of the
dramatic UFO sighting event that occurred two years ago over
both the states of Nevada and Arizona, an event generally
referred to as the �Phoenix Lights� case.   One unconfirmed
sighting report was received from the State of New Mexico, as
well.

Many aspects of the case still remain unexplained and
controversial, but a considerable body of data and evidence has
been collected by many capable investigators, which suggests
that the event was extraordinarily dramatic and bizarre.
Moreover, it went virtually unreported in the press, save for a
handful of short articles printed in local Arizona newspapers.
The story finally �broke� with a major, front-page article in
USA TODAY on Wednesday, June 18, 1997, some three months after
the incident had occurred.   Some of the salient features of the
case are described below:



1) Perhaps thousands, or tens of thousands, of witnesses on the
ground witnessed at least one object pass and/or hover overhead
which they described as being huge, gigantic, or unimaginably
large.  Many of the witnesses reported that they had the
impression that a Boeing 747 could land on the back of the
object they had just witnessed pass overhead their location.

2) Most witnesses described the object as being generally
triangular in shape, with anywhere from five, to �many,
innumerable,� lights on the leading edge of the object.  Some
observers reported that the pattern of lights consisted of three
lights clustered near the �nose� of the object, with one  light
on each of the trailing tips of the triangle.  Other individuals
reported an object that appeared to have seven large lights
equally spaced along its leading edge.

3) The object apparently was capable of very rapid flight,
probably even supersonic flight, although few witnesses reported
any sound emanating from it.  The object was reported heading
generally to the southeast over Henderson, NV, at 1855 hrs.
(Pacific), and was next reported heading to the south in the
vicinity of Paulden, AZ, approximately 22 minutes later at 2017
hrs. (Mountain).  Within approximately one minute of the
sighting in Paulden, the object was reported from the vicinity
of Prescott Valley, AZ, roughly 30 miles to the south. The
object then appeared over Phoenix, where it is reported to have
hovered for 4-5 minutes in the vicinity of the intersection of
Indian School Road and 7th Avenue.

4) The object passed through the airspace of Sky Harbor Airport,
where it was witnessed by air traffic controllers in the airport
tower, and where it also was reported via radio by at least one
commercial flight crew.  They reported via radio that the object
was passing directly overhead their aircraft, which was on the
ground preparing to depart Sky Harbor.  The object reportedly
did not appear on radar, and it did not communicate via either
radio or transponder.

5) From the Phoenix area, the object reportedly proceeded
generally south toward South Mountain, continuing southeast
toward Tucson, AZ, along Interstate 10.  One family, driving
northwest toward Phoenix on Interstate 10 near Casa Grande, AZ,
reported that the object remained above them for an estimated
1-2 minutes while they were driving at approximately 80 miles
per hour.  The object was so large above them that the family�s
two children in the back seat of their station wagon
simultaneously could see the opposite �wing tips� of the object
out both the left and right passenger windows.

6) The National UFO Reporting Center received a telephone call
approximately seven hours after the incident from a person who
identified himself as an airman stationed at Luke Air Force
Base, located 20 miles to the west of Phoenix.  The individual
reported that the U. S. Air Force had launched two F-15c fighter
aircraft from Luke AFB, and that one of the aircraft had
�intercepted� a gigantic object over the intersection of Indian
School Road and 7th Avenue.  It was also reported by this
individual that the onboard radar of the intercepting fighter
had suddenly gone to a condition of �white noise,� and that the
lights on the anomalous object simultaneously had suddenly
dimmed in unison and disappeared from the pilot�s sight.  (See
text of conversation with the alleged airman)

7) On March 14, 1997, senior officers from Luke Air Force Base
stated that they knew nothing about the incident, and that the
base had received no reports from the public regarding the
event.  Long distance telephone bills, which indicate calls to
the base, contradict the statements made by these officers.

8) Some military personnel and UFO investigators have asserted
that the entire event was caused by �military flares� that had
been released at approximately 2130 hrs. (Mountain) by a flight
of USAF A-10 aircraft in the general vicinity of the Gila Bend
Bombing Range.  The bombing facility is located approximately
60-80 miles to the southwest of Phoenix.  This event, if in fact
it did take place, occurred at approximately 2130 or 2200 hrs.,
some 45 minutes after the UFO sighting had already occurred over
northern Arizona, Phoenix, and Tucson.

9) The witnesses who reported their sightings of the object over
northern Arizona and Phoenix include architects, physicians, law
enforcement officers, educators, attorneys, airline pilots,
scientists, real estate brokers, and other seemingly reliable
citizens.  Many  are qualified observers, and have reported
their sightings in eloquent, written form.

For more details on this case, see our original report, or read
sighting descriptions in witnesses own words on our March 1997
report page.
____________________________________

Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News:
UFOSEEK... For the Source! http://www.ufoseek.org
Mirror Site: http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/





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   Mar > Mar 11

                       Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:14:50 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:34:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets


>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:50:30 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Christophe Meessen <meessen@mailclub.net>
>Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

>>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:41:33 -0500
>>From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Betty Hill's Map of Planets
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Hello,

>Thanks for the new publication of this page.

>As Joachim reported, I find this idea sufficiently impressing to
>justify deeper investigation.

>I'm currently studying this map. More precisely trying to find
>the best view point and date matching the map but by using
>numerical methods.

Hi Christophe, Hi Joachim.

After your original posting to UFO UpDates, I regret I could not
find the complete details through the Internet of your idea and
gave up looking into it more closely.

I got a reply from Terry Dickinson this morning (author of The
Zeta  Reticulli Incident that was published in Astronomy
magazine) regarding his current thoughts on this article and
other interpretations of Betty Hill's star(?) map.  Terry is
very busy trying to meet his publisher deadlines and with work
on other projects but promised to get together with me over a
beer to review your interpretation that the stars in Betty's map
are actually the planets in our solar system.

I think it would be interesting to hear Terry's views on the
strengths and weakness of this alternate interpretation as he
did with previous other interpretations, including another
alternate opinion for Betty's map that was proposed by fellow
astronomer Carl Sagan.

Nick Balaskas






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                       Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:42:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:37:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets


>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:41:33 -0500
>From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Betty Hill's Map of Planets
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Hello List!

>About three month ago a short discussion came up here about the
>validity of what we had found out about Betty Hill's map some
>years ago. The original thread was the discovery of a planet 35
>light years away.

>In a reply to Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>, it was
>Christophe Meessen <meessen@cppm.in2p3.fr> who wrote on Fri, 27
>Nov 1998 18:02:15 +0100:

>>I would strongly recommend reconsidering the Zeta Reticuli
>>interpretation of Majorie Fish in light of the more recent
>>studies of Joachim Koch who suggest this map corresponds to our
>>own solar system. Joachim had very pertinent arguments to
>>justify this conclusion.

>Then he explained to the list why he thinks so.

>As a reply to this one of our leading researchers, Stan Friedman
><fsphys@brunnet.net>, to whom I respectfully send my best
>wishes here, wrote on: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:54:55 -0400:

>>Sorry, but Terry Dickinson and I both looked at Joachim's work
>>years ago and found it not to have merit for a bunch of reasons.
>>The portrayal above of the conversation with the alien is
>>fictional.

>>Try looking at the ZRI booklet or better yet 'The Interrupted
>>Journey' by John Fuller. Marge Fish's work had also been
>>carefully considered and passes muster.

<snip>

>Joachim Koch, Berlin
>Hans-Juergen Kyborg, Berlin

I did discuss the work with Terry.

I can find no excuse for including asteroids.

It was Betty who pushed the alien for info as to origin, not the
leader who pushed to "educate" Betty.

Why bring up galaxies.. nearest big one being roughly a million
light years away?  It is important that it turns out that ZR 1
and ZR 2 are indeed the closest to each other pair of sunlike
stars in our neighborhood. and that the identity wasn't possible
until a new catalog of stellar distances (Gliese) became
available.

Hastily,

Stan Friedman





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                         Re: UFO and Suicide Cults?

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:43:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:41:44 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO and Suicide Cults?


>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:37:04 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO and Suicide Cults?

Hi everyone.

Although Errol, the moderator of UFO UpDates, is certainly
no UFO suicide cult leader, he is KILLING himself everyday
to provide us with a much needed forum to share what we
know and think and we are DYING to learn the latest news
and opinions in ufology.

I hate to think about the void that would exist in our
understanding of the whole UFO phenomena without UFO UpDates.

Errol's efforts and dedication are very much appreciated.

Nick Balaskas

[Thanks for the DEADly compliments, Nick --ebk]





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   Mar > Mar 11

                            Re: Bell Evades Truth

From: Michael Hodges <mwhod@roanoke.infi.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:02:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:44:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell Evades Truth


>From: Richard J. Harvey <rjh1006@multipro.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Bell Evades Truth
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:02:05 -0600

>There are indeed known liars that have attacked Richard
>Hoagland, the person, instead of going after his science as Art
>Bell has said several times during the last few shows.

>So, Art, on his show, attacks people that attack Richard.  But
>he doesn't have the balls to read statements from people that
>have emailed and faxed him several times regarding this matter.

>In fact, after Richard Hoagland recovers, I doubt he will bring
>up this matter in any future show.

>What is comes down to is that Art Bell, when pressed against the
>wall in issues regarding the truth will say this,

>"Hey, it's just an entertainment program..."

>So the millions of listeners out there in the world get no
>closer to the truth, and Art Bell continues to make money like a
>porn magazine -  both providing a service that doesn't better
>the world.

>One day, he will wonder why bad things happen to him...  We
>already know why...

>And Ed Dames will be on Friday...  That's another story...  Same
>thing really as above...

Hi Richard,

I agree with your thoughts here about Art and Hoagland, As for
Dames, I faxed Art and asked him to question Ed about the kill
shot prediction that he made for April of '99, which I think is
a crock, and now Ed is off on this tangent of trying to predict
prophecies concerning the book of Revelation and the mark of the
beast.

I suspect that it too will follow the other as you said.

Thanks for the mail.

Michael Hodges





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   Mar > Mar 11

                  Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?

From: Judith Dale <judithdale@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:04:59 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:13:36 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?


>From: Geri & Alfred Webre <ecotoday@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:19:25 EST
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: The Pulsing Of Richard Hoagland?

>This was posted by on MC Mind Control by K Kasten of the Dept.
>of Pathology, UCLA Medical School:

>Geri & Alfred Webre

>-----

>From: Kathy Kasten <KKASTEN@pathology.medsch.ucla.edu>
>To: MINDCONTROL-L@mail.sonic.net
>Subject: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:09:00 -0800

>Dear People:

>Perhaps, you heard Art Bell last night discussing the time
>period just prior to Richard Hoagland's heart attack and what
>took place.

>Through someone named Susan, Richard's significant other, Art
>related Richard's "dream". It goes like this, Hoagland woke up
>with what he described as radiation around his heart - not pain,
>but radiation or radiating. 911 was called; the paramedics came
>and declared that Richard was not suffering from a heart attack.
>However, they decided to take him to the hospital for
>evaluation. On the way to the hospital, in the ambulance,
>Richard suffered a heart attack.

>Hoagland is 53, does not smoke or drink, was in good health,
>there is no family history of heart disease, there were no
>symptoms prior to the attack.

>The possibly for me is that Hoagland was in fact radiated/pulsed
>to the brain cortex area that controls the heart. I am basing
>this on my own experience with the heterodying pulse that came
>through the RF/cellular phone signal relay unit in the ceiling
>where I passed just before I began to feel "radiated". However,
>unlike Richard, I was already in the hospital surrounded by
>doctors who headed off a heart attack.

>Your thoughts. Anybody else been the target of a pulsed "heart
>attack"?

>KK

Greetings Kathy and List Folks,

I, also, heard Art Bell's rendition of Richard Hoagland's dream.
Based on my experience as an RN, and alternative healer, my
interpretation of the information is quite different.

It is quite common for pain related to either angina or heart
attack to be experienced as a radiating pain or sensation. The
use of the word radiating is descriptive. That is, the pain,
pressure, sense of tightness, originates at the heart then
travels outward. This sensation can be felt in the left arm,
shoulder, or back. Thus, the use of the word radiating. Further,
it is very common for a person about to experience a heart
attack, to have a sense of pending doom, so to speak. In
addition, Richard may have a a presentient vision of what was
coming. So, while the sequence of events can be dramatized in
such a way to make it seem more than it was, I think it would
behoove us to not allow ourselves to be led down that path.

As for the possibility, that Richard was pulsed to the
"brain/cortex area that controls the heart", I doubt it.

Based on the medical information released regarding his
condition, it seems that there was a blockage to one of the
major blood vessels of his heart.

It is my understanding that this has now been corrected by
surgical intervention.

Regardless of Richard's medical/health history, it seems that in
fact, he simply had a heart attack of mundane origin.

In reviewing the information related to this event, it my
assessment that Richard experienced the results of long term
stressors. Chronic stress can affect the clotting time of one's
blood, thus increasing the likelihood of a clot obstructing an
artery. The key word here is chronic, ie: long term. In
addition, stressors are not all negative. Positive events can be
stressors, as well.

Kathy, I do not mean to belittle your own experience here.
However, I think that your assessment is incorrect.

Personally, I am cheered to hear that Richard's surgery was
successful. I pray for his continued and speedy recovery.

Regards,

Judith





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   Mar > Mar 11

                            Firmage Re. Hoagland

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:56:19 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:20:35 -0500
Subject: Firmage Re. Hoagland


From: Joe Firmage <jfirmage@uswebcks.com>

Hello all,

I hear that several messages are circulating RE my remarks
concerning Hoagland. I want to set the record straight.

I have said nothing about Hoagland in my book or in any
advertisement. I've made only one significant public statement
of any kind RE Hoagland, and it was posted on Sightings.com. It
was simply a statement of my appraisal-to-date of most of
Hoagland's signature assertions. I played no role whatsoever in
Stephens' "200 questions" except in confirming that Stephens
should have the opportunity to ask them, and that many of
Stephens' points were indeed quite factual. The challenge of
another's assertions is the natural process of how fact is
separated from mistake or fiction, and Hoagland is not exempt
from this process (nor is Stephens, nor me).

Hoagland's views on Cydonia, his particular vision of
hyperdimensional physics, the alleged geometric "glass"
enclosures spanning lunar craters, and many (though not all) of
his other claims, are not supported by the evidence that can be
found on his site or in his books. There may indeed be some
interesting anomalies that relate to domains Hoagland and
countless others study (such as the extensive list of unusual
lunar data and observations), but I have not seen compelling
evidence for such on EnterpriseMission.com or in Richard's
books. I remain perfectly willing to stand corrected on anything
I've said as evidence dictates.

But, this is really not the time to be having this debate. I was
saddened to hear of Richard's recent heart attack. Richard is as
much a human being as any one of us, and deserves our heartfelt
concern.

Joe Firmage







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   Mar > Mar 11

                    Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:19:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:33:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be


>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 04:46:31 -0800
>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial

>Fellow Updates members,

>On Tuesday my new edition of MUFON Journal arrived.

>The cover story describes what may be what we have been hoping
>for - the skeleton of an extraterrestrial. A paleontologist, the
>late Dr. Slaughter's discovery of a unique skeleton discovered
>in Texas. Dr.Slaughter was Professor of paleontology and the
>director of the Shuler Museum at Southern Methodist University
>at Dallas, TX. He examined it, casted it and removed it to his
>lab for analysis. He wrote a technical report describing it as
>the discovery of a new species of a new genus.


Hi Josh,

"Smoking gun" though it 'may be' it's much wiser to wait until
_independant_experts_ have performed a thorough analysis. A
'piece' of the skeleton is currently being checked out at a well
known University (I don't wish to betray any confidences, I'll
wait until they post their test results) and (if and when) they
state that the bones are or are not 'human' (or some other known
species) it doesn't serve the cause to claim that the bones are
from an "extraterrestrial." Lord knows that there are enough
deforming maladies that affect ordinary human beings. ie six
fingers, four fingers, misshapened heads and other bone/body
structures. There have also been many cultures that
intentionally distort body parts for aesthetic reasons. ie;
Japaneese women binding their feet, Mayans reshaping their
skulls etc.

Let's wait until the boys downtown (medical experts) declare it
to be a genuine anomaly before making a lot of noise about it.
I'm just as excited as you are at the possibility, but I'm
willing to wait until the scientific verdict is in before I
break out the balloons, party hats and noise makers.

Let's be patient. An answer will be forthcoming shortly. Some
good people are looking into this thing as we speak. We don't
have long to wait.

Peace,

Your friend in anticipation,

John Velez







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   Mar > Mar 11

                            Re: Bell is no Rense

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:02:11 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:37:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense


"Bell is no Rense!"

Neither is anyone else operating in this venue of talk radio.
Rense is good radio. If you have a point of view, and it is
something of interest, Jeff will give you an opportunity to air
it.  He will ask the questions as if your opinion was the best
on the planet.  Doesn't matter whether Rense agrees with that
opinion or not, you are his guest, you are King for that show.
You are interviewed and treated as if you were as righteous as
the Pope.

When an opposing opinion is presented, it is done with an almost
magical flair which seems to decry the existence of BS.  No.
Bell is no Rense, but that is not necessarily a fault of Bell.
It is merely a fact.

As for Bell's condemnation of Rense... well, we here at
Gesundt's Freshly Made call _that_ "The straight poop from the
john."  Note the word "john" is not capitalized.

"Rich, rich, rich with flavor.  Smooth, smooth, smooth as silk.
That's our Gripple Dripple.  And it's made with milk!"*

A resounding "Thank you" to Junket Rennet Custard for allowing
us to use what's in the public domain anyway.

Gesundt






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   Mar > Mar 11

                           Re: Meier Case - Redux

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:37:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:52:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux


>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:33:29 -0800 (PST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux

<snip>

>Nick,

>You missed or misinterpreted Kim's points, as well as mine in a
>subsequent post. Neither of us was claiming that it was unknown
>in 1975 that CFC's would have a destructive effect upon the
>ozone layer. As you say, that dates back to around 1969 or 1970.
>But (1) go back and search for the phrase "ozone hole" and you
>won't find it until in the 1980's. And (2) go back and search
>for the thought that bromine, not just chlorine (and fluorine),
>would be responsible for much ozone destruction. Again you won't
>find it until in the 1980s. (CFC = chloro-fluoro-carbon fails to
>contain a "B" that would stand for "bromo.") These were the two
>items re O3 that Meier was clued to by his ET contactor that
>aroused interest. However, as I pointed out, ozone holes
>(plural), rather than the singular seasonal ozone hole over
>Antarctica, have yet to be observed as far as I know.

>Jim Deardorff


Hi Jim.

According to others, I miss or misinterpret a lot of things
these days, especially if my comments are not in support of
theirs.  Please let me make some additional comments to the the
numbered ones you made.

(1) First, there is no such thing as an ozone "hole".  Holes are
simply regions where the concentration of ozone is much thinner
than others because the rate of destruction of ozone is greater
than the rate of the formation of ozone.  We have always used
the expression "hole" in science (eg. Black Hole) or in everyday
life (eg. hole in the head) even when we are not referring to a
literal hole.  Now if Billy used the term ozone "celestrial"
hole back then, I think many ufologists, including myself would
take his claims a little more seriously.

(2) Let us assume that the actual term that Billy used (Brom) is
actually Bromine, then you are correct to note that Bromine is
not a part of the acronym CFC.  The fact is CFCs have always
been understood to include Chlorine, Fluorine AND Bromine, since
they are all Halogen gases and behave the same way chemically.
Now if we assume that the term Brom actually is Broma (which in
Greek means dirt or pollution - not an unreasonable assumption
since Billy's wife was Greek), then Bromine may still have a
connection since it is used in effective disinfectants.  If we
now deal solely with reality, chemical products with Fluorine or
Chlorine are made in much greater quantities (at least here on
Earth) for a variety of applications than chemical products with
Bromine.  So Bromine in itself would not be a threat to Earth's
ozone layer.  Maybe Billy's E.T.s are into disinformation too.

Ozone holes (or areas of less ozone), although smaller than the
ones over Earth's polar regions, have been observed and measured
over industrial areas even before the polar ozone holes were
discovered.  Dr. Alan Carswell, a physics professor who taught a
course I took in 1974/75 had developed an laser radar system
(lidar) which could accurately measure the quantity of different
gases in the upper atmosphere over Toronto.  Lidar is now used
to make ozone "hole" measurements all over the world.

Unless there is something else I overlooked about what was
revealed to Billy by E.T.s, he certainly wasn't told anything
new, or even accurate.  Then again, who says E.T.s have to be
more intelligent than man?

Nick Balaskas







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   Mar > Mar 12

              Re: Phoenix Lights vs. the TR-3B Flying Triangle

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:50:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:42:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights vs. the TR-3B Flying Triangle


>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:16:58 -0800
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey)
>Subject: Phoenix Lights vs. the TR-3B Flying Triangle


>I agree with others that I am having a time hard believing the
>data on Ed Fouche's website and in his book "Alien Rapture".

>Fouche's Website = http://www.fouchemedia.com

>After all, if it were absolutely true, why is that data still
>there on the web, and why is Ed still walking around? We are
>taking here of data from S-4 (cf - Bob Lazar), not Groom Lake.
>Much more sensitive data...

Good point!

<snip about Phoenix sightings 8 - 9 PM March 13, 1997>

>The Phoenix Lights were this (or perhaps several) large
>triangles!

>They were not the lights, flares, or whatever they were - that
>hung in the air and traced the outline of the ridge of a local
>mountain range an hour (or 2 hours?) after the triangle(s)
>passed over Phoenix.

>Get it right!

Correct. Whatever passed over Phoenix between 8 and 9 PM was not
flares.

The videotapes of lights at 10 PM very probably were flares
(Triangulation determined they were over the Barry Goldwater
test range; see:

www.geocities.com/area51/stargate/5518/maccabee.html

>US UFO Reporting Center: http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/


>For the first time in all my years of research, I am truly in awe.

Welcome to the Club of Awe.





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   Mar > Mar 12

                    Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:00:04 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:47:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be


>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:19:48 -0500
>Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:33:18 -0500
>Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

<snip>

>Let's wait until the boys downtown (medical experts) declare it
>to be a genuine anomaly before making a lot of noise about it.

<snip>

Hello, Josh, John, and anyone else who is listening:

You're so right, John.

Wouldn't it be nice, just once, for something of this potential
magnitude to have been treated like an article in any
legitimate, peer-reviewed science journal: Investigate, then
announce?

Everyone directly associated with this thing is now conveniently
dead and there is a movie afoot.  Whooa!  The musty smell of $$
has even wafted its way all the way East to me here along the
beautiful Susquehanna River.

If UFOlogy wonders why serious scientists don't often touch this
subject with a ten foot pole, look no further than how what
wants to pass for a major UFOlogical Journal has been hoodwinked
into publicizing what is almost certainly another con.

Bet me.  Giving odds, anyone?

Bob Young







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   Mar > Mar 12

                Re: Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?

From: Kathy Kasten <KKASTEN@pathology.medsch.ucla.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:54:00 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:09:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?


>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:04:59 -0800
>From: Judith Dale <judithdale@earthlink.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?

>Greetings Kathy and List Folks,

>I, also, heard Art Bell's rendition of Richard Hoagland's dream.
>Based on my experience as an RN, and alternative healer, my
>interpretation of the information is quite different.

>It is quite common for pain related to either angina or heart
>attack to be experienced as a radiating pain or sensation. The
>use of the word radiating is descriptive. That is, the pain,
>pressure, sense of tightness, originates at the heart then
>travels outward. This sensation can be felt in the left arm,
>shoulder, or back. Thus, the use of the word radiating. Further,
>it is very common for a person about to experience a heart
>attack, to have a sense of pending doom, so to speak. In
>addition, Richard may have a a presentient vision of what was
>coming. So, while the sequence of events can be dramatized in
>such a way to make it seem more than it was, I think it would
>behoove us to not allow ourselves to be led down that path.
>
>As for the possibility, that Richard was pulsed to the
>"brain/cortex area that controls the heart", I doubt it.
>
>Based on the medical information released regarding his
>condition, it seems that there was a blockage to one of the
>major blood vessels of his heart.

>It is my understanding that this has now been corrected by
>surgical intervention.

>Regardless of Richard's medical/health history, it seems that in
>fact, he simply had a heart attack of mundane origin.

<snip>

>Kathy, I do not mean to belittle your own experience here.
>However, I think that your assessment is incorrect.

>Personally, I am cheered to hear that Richard's surgery was
>successful. I pray for his continued and speedy recovery.


Judith:

You are not belittling me. You are questioning a possibility I
put forward.

However, you know very well that there are medical symptoms -
whether noticed or not - before a heart attack.  Why you made
such a statement? I don't know. However, there were warnings
and symptom. Every doctor knows that. The possible pre-attack
symptoms were gone over with me while I was laying in the ER
working with the doctors to keep things under control.

Your assessment of my theory of Richard Hoagland's possible
direct ELF/microwave pulsing (to the heart - if need be) shows
that you need to read up on advanced technology and what it is
capable of.  I don't mean to belittle your many years as a
nurse, but your attitude is just what the TIs (targeted
individual) battle every time they go to see a doctor.

A blatant lack of knowledge of the underlying
condition/prognosis.

Very soon now, you as a medical professional will not be able to
evaluate all patients you see, the cause of their symptoms will
just perplex you.  However, the patient will know exactly what
is happening. The patients will be more knowledgeable than the
health professional.

KK





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   Mar > Mar 12

                 Re: Strange Days... Indeed - Very strange!

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:11:49 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:13:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Strange Days... Indeed - Very strange!


It dawned on us here at the Canal Street Ufological Society
that many of us have been singing the praises of one or two
of our favorite "Talk Radio" personalities without singing one
song of praise to our host on UpDates, Mr. Errol Bruce-Knapp
(with the silent "K," eh?).

Some of you have been guests on his show.  Many are listeners.
I tune in to most of the Strange Days programs, especially when
my favorite personalities are guested... Velez, Hopkins and of
course, many others.

Errol is a gentleman.  Like Jeff Rense, he too treats his guests
with respect.  And never a word of praise for the man.  For
_shame_! And so let me be among the first to sing your praises,
Sir.  Uh, wait a sec. I do have _one_ complaint here.  Why is
that Errol, Jeff, Art and all the rest, have never had one of
the (if not _THE_) most famous, well respected, honorable
researchers in the history of the UFO experience on any of your
shows?  Why have virtually none of you even bothered to extend
an invitation to the man many consider to be the second coming
of the Messiah of UFO-dom, the John the Baptists of profits?...
er, prophets...... sorry.

I refer, of course, to the great Dr. Jaime Gesundt!  I take back
everything I said about all of you soulless bastards!   Long
live Gesundt and down with Talk Radio and their evil messengers.

Dr. Mortellaro, Director of Propag..... I mean Pubic Relations
for Canal Street UFO Society






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   Mar > Mar 12

                            Re: Bell is no Rense

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:34:41 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:26:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense


>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:02:11 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense

>"Bell is no Rense!"

>Neither is anyone else operating in this venue of talk radio.
>Rense is good radio. If you have a point of view, and it is
>something of interest, Jeff will give you an opportunity to air
>it.

While it sounds very noble to offer airtime to anyone with a
point of view, what REALLY makes Jeff stand out is that he gets
the quality authoritative guests. Not that I agree with all his
guests either, but Jeff does appear to make a real effort to
educate and inform his audience while he entertains.

Take the subject of remote viewing, for instance. Art trots out
Ed Dames every few weeks, as if he's even a qualified remote
viewer. Which he isn't. Wasn't a remote viewer at all with the
Ft Meade unit, and didn't even do a passable job at some of his
other responsibilities (and perhaps that's why he was
transferred out to the disinformation unit after only a two year
stint, while others remained with the unit for 10 years or
more.). Art has been repeatedly informed, by those who _are_
authorities, that Ed's point of view is perhaps not worth
promoting, but he continues.

In striking contrast, Jeff has sought out the real authorities
on remote viewing. The top lab researchers. The man who
initiated the military's psi explorations. The very best remote
viewers, including Ingo Swann, a notoriously reclusive
individual whose appearance on Jeff's show _twice_ represents a
huge feather in Jeff's cap. Ingo is the guy who developed the
remote viewing methodology that has been so butchered by the
RV-evangelists (Dames, Brown, etc.).

You will rarely see the authoritative names on Art Bell's guest
list, however. In fact they are conspicuously absent. They could
make mince-meat of Dames in a New York nano-second, and perhaps
it is this scenario that Art is so carefully avoiding. (The
question of _why_ Art is selling Dames so heavily, I'll just
leave hanging here, not having any evidence to back up any
particular hypothesis. <g>)

Of course, Art isn't responsible for the entire sorry business.
I know many people who agree that much of his material is
obvious BS, but who openly acknowledge that they are addicted to
the emotional "high" of apocalyptic doom and gloom.

Perhaps audiences get the programming that they deserve.

--

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>





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   Mar > Mar 12

              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:34:54 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:27:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed


>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:32:59 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

>>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 15:45:26 -0800
>>From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

><snip>

>>Thing is, Linda Moulton Howe said that she tried to verify the
>>Vietnam story (some years ago) and was unable to come up with
>>ANY evidence for it.  Yet, here it is presented again as part of
>>a book that is supposedly "factual," but for some names changed
>>to protect the innocent, which is the only way Fouche would be
>>allowed to publish his story.

>Clifford E. Stone related a similar story about a downed B-52,
>killed American airmen and encounters with alien creatures on
>Jeff Rense's Sightings show for July 31 (about 1 hour 15 minutes
>into this archived show).

>Unlike Ed Fouche, Clifford Stone claimed to have actually been
>there (Cambodia?) himself in 1969 after making a stop at a large
>airfield in Vietnam.  Although Clifford Stone also claims to
>have been present at many UFO crash retrievals, the story he
>told on Jeff Rense's show suggested that this incident with the
>downed B-52 may not have been unique.

>Does anyone have anything to add in support of the reality of
>such stories (apart from the "new" MJ-12 documents)?

When Brad Steiger (who co-authored the Fouche book) was
questioned about this case, he apparently responded that the
book was fiction and we shouldn't be looking for factual
information there. If there is any substance to the
Vietnam/Korea/Cambodia story (and if there is I wonder why Linda
was unable to find it?), apparently this is news to
Steiger/Fouche. --

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 12

              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 04:43:24 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:51:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed



Hi all, a few days ago Ignatious posted part of a speech by Ed
Fouche at the Laughlin UFO conference. The TR-3B Ed mentions is
also called Astra, according to him. In the winter of 1996/97 I
found an article in the British magazine Air Forces Monthly that
mentions the crash of a top secret American spy plane with code
name Astra.


>From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 19:50:03 EST
>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed.

>Secret Government Technology
>by Edgar Rothschild Fouche=92
>Copyright 1998, Fouche Media Associates
>http://fouchemedia.com/arap/speech.htm

>
>     Presentation By Edgar Rothschild Fouche

>     International UFO Congress

>       Laughlin, Nevada 1998


>SLIDE 69: TR-3B

>Finally, I=92ve saved the best 4 last. The Operational
>model of the TR-3B.

>A friend said, he would never forget the sight of the alien
>looking TR-3B based at Papoose. The pitch black, triangular
>shaped TR-3B was rarely mentioned--and then, only in hushed
>whispers--at the Groom Lake facility where he worked. The craft
>had flown over the Groom Lake runway in complete silence and
>magically stopped above Area S-4. It hovered silently in the
>same position, for some 10 minutes, before gently settling
>vertically to the tarmac. At times a corona of silver blue light
>glowed around the circumference of the massive TR-3B. The
>operational model is 600 feet across.

>SLIDE 70: TR-3B

>The TR-3B is Code named Astra. The tactical
>reconnaissance TR-3B first operational flight was in the early
>90s.

>The triangular shaped nuclear powered aerospace platform was
>developed under the Top Secret, Aurora Program with SDI and
>black budget monies. At least 3 of the billion dollar plus
>TR-3Bs were flying by 1994. The Aurora is the most classified
>aerospace development program in existence. The TR-3B is the
>most exotic vehicle created by the Aurora Program. It is funded
>and operationally tasked by the National Reconnaissance Office,
>the NSA, and the CIA. The TR-3B flying triangle is not fiction
>and was built with technology available in the mid 80s.

>Not every UFO spotted is one of theirs.

>SLIDE 71: TR-3B

>The TR-3B vehicle=92s outer coating is reactive to electrical

>Radar stimulation and can change reflectiveness, radar
>absorptiveness, and color. This polymer skin, when used in
>conjunction with the TR-3Bs Electronic Counter Measures and,
>ECCM, can make the vehicle look like a small aircraft, or a
>flying cylinder--or even trick radar receivers into falsely
>detecting a variety of aircraft, no aircraft, or several
>aircraft at various locations.

>SLIDE 72: TR-3B Schematic diagram

>A circular, plasma filled accelerator ring called the Magnetic
>Field Disrupter, surrounds the rotatable crew compartment and is
>far ahead of any imaginable technology.

>Sandia and Livermore laboratories developed the reverse
>engineered MFD technology. The government will go to any lengths
>to protect this technology. The plasma, mercury based, is
>pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a temperature of 150
>degrees Kelvin and accelerated to 50,000 rpm to create a
>super-conductive plasma with the resulting gravity disruption.

>The MFD generates a magnetic vortex field, which disrupts or
>neutralizes the effects of gravity on mass within proximity, by
>89 percent. Do not misunderstand. This is not antigravity.
>Anti-gravity provides a repulsive force that can be used for
>propulsion.

>The MFD creates a disruption of the Earth's gravitational field
>upon the mass within the circular accelerator. The mass of the
>circular accelerator and all mass within the accelerator, such
>as the crew capsule, avionics, MFD systems, fuels, crew
>environmental systems, and the nuclear reactor, are reduced by
>89%.

>This causes the effect of making the vehicle extremely light and
>able to outperform and outmaneuver any craft yet
>constructed--except, of course, those UFOs we did not build. The
>TR-3B is a high altitude, stealth, reconnaissance platform with
>an indefinite loiter time. Once you get it up there at speed, it
>doesn=92t take much propulsion to maintain altitude.

>At Groom Lake their have been whispered Rumors of a new element
>that acts as a catalyst to the plasma.

>With the vehicle mass reduced by 89%, the craft can travel at
>Mach 9, vertically or horizontally. My sources say the
>performance is limited only the stresses that the human pilots
>can endure. Which is a lot, really, considering along with the
>89% reduction in mass, the G forces are also reduced by 89%.

>The TR-3Bs propulsion is provided by 3 multimode thrusters
>mounted at each bottom corner of the triangular platform. The
>TR-3 is a sub-Mach 9 vehicle until it reaches altitudes above
>l20,000 feet--then God knows how fast it can go!

>The 3 multimode rocket engines mounted under each corner of the
>craft use hydrogen or methane and oxygen as a propellent.

>In a liquid oxygen/hydrogen rocket system, 85% of the propellent
>mass is oxygen. The nuclear thermal rocket engine uses a
>hydrogen propellent, augmented with oxygen for additional
>thrust. The reactor heats the liquid hydrogen and injects liquid
>oxygen in the supersonic nozzle, so that the hydrogen burns
>concurrently in the liquid oxygen afterburner.

>SLIDE 73: TR-3B

>The multimode propulsion system can; operate in the atmosphere,
>with thrust provided by the nuclear reactor, in the upper
>atmosphere, with hydrogen propulsion, and in orbit, with the
>combined hydrogen\ oxygen propulsion. What you have to remember
>is, that the 3 rocket engines only have to propel 11 percent of
>the mass of the Top Secret TR-3B. The engines are reportedly
>built by Rockwell.

>SLIDE 74: C-130

>The original picture of the TR-3B was taken with a digital
>camera that was carried onto a black - special operations C-130.
>An Air Force Special Operations sergeant took the picture while
>The C-130, was flying mission support for the TR-3B. The current
>picture, a computer graphic representation, was created from the
>sergeant=92s digital picture using 3D studio. This picture hangs
>on the wall in the black vault, at the Aurora Program Office.
>I=92m not at liberty to say where I got these other pictures of
>the TR-3B.

>SLIDE 75: TR-3B Original

>From the evolution of exotic materials, advanced avionics, and
>newer propulsion engines the stealth aircraft were born. Leaps
>in technology have been obtained with reverse engineering of
>Alien Artifacts as described in the newly released MJ-12 Revised
>Charter,

>signed during the Regan administration.

>According to Jerald=92s account, the technology developed at
>Papoose far exceeded any known within the world scientific
>community. Technology that we can assuredly assume was
>developed, from reverse engineering of recovered alien
>artifacts.

>The control of all Alien Artifacts; the research, the reverse
>engineering, and analysis of the extraterrestrial biological
>entities (EBEs) has been transferred to the super-secret
>laboratory called the Defense Advanced Research Center or DARC.

>SLIDE 76: TR-3B 600 feet wide Operational Model

>Many sightings of triangular UFOs are not alien vehicles but the
>top secret TR-3B. The NSA, NRO, CIA, and USAF have been playing
>a shell game with aircraft nomenclature - creating the TR-3,
>modified to the TR-3A, the TR-3B, and the Teir 2, 3, and 4, with
>suffixes like Plus or Minus added on to confuse further the fact
>that each of these designators is a different aircraft and not
>the same aerospace vehicle.

>A TR-3B is as different from a TR-3A as a banana is from a
>grape. Some of these vehicles are manned and others are
>unmanned.


<snipped>

The Boscombe Down incident aircraft is designated ASTRA, was
referred to as AV-6 (Air Vehicle Six, its construction number),
and was allocated USAF serial 90-2414. It routinely used
frequencies in the 500 to 510 MHz range (highly unusual and
beyond the tuning range of standard UHF scanner radios) and was
operating with the callsign Blackbuck 11. It had been operating
in tandem with at least one other aircraft.

ASTRA is an acronym standing for Advanced Stealth Technology=B7
Reconnaissance Aircraft. The prime contractor is Northrop, with
McDonnell Douglas (MDC) involvement, and the aircraft is
directly related to the YF-23 (unsuccessful ATF contender).

No doubt most controversial of all, the ASTRA is believed to be
the Mach 5+ hypersonic SR-71 replacement most commonly referred
to until now as Aurora. This, along with its YF-23 lineage, will
be a major surprise to those who either denied the existence of
a manned hypersonic project, or assumed it to be a product of
Lockheed's 'Skunk Works'.=B7

The Boscombe Down incident aircraft is designated ASTRA, was=B7
referred to as AV-6 (Air Vehicle Six, its construction number),
and was allocated USAF serial 90-2414. It routinely used
frequen- cies in the 500 to 510 MHz range (highly unusual and
beyond the tuning range of standard UHF scanner radios) and was
operating with the callsign Blackbuck 11. It had been operating
in tandem with at least one other aircraft.=B7

Lockheed has consistently denied involvement in a hypersonic
project but in June 1991, Northrop had quietly set up its own
version of the 'Skunk Works', called the Advanced Technology and
Design Center, to pursue what it acknowledged to be both manned
and unmanned 'black' project developments.=B7

There has been no clue since then as to what projects have been=B7
developed, but it now seems clear that the Center's
establishment could have coincided with the start of ASTRA's
production. It is=B7 also notable that Northrop always refers to
its prototypes as=B7 Prototype Air Vehicle (PAVs), thus lending
weight to the theory that the reference to 90-2414 merely as Air
Vehicle (AV) suggests it to be a production aircraft and in
operational service.=B7

            __________________________________________
           /    Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes    \





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   Mar > Mar 12

                           Re: Meier Case - Redux

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:23:46 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:54:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux


>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:37:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux

> Please let me make some additional comments to the the
>numbered ones you made.

>(1) First, there is no such thing as an ozone "hole".  Holes are
>simply regions where the concentration of ozone is much thinner
>than others because the rate of destruction of ozone is greater
>than the rate of the formation of ozone.  We have always used
>the expression "hole" in science (eg. Black Hole) or in everyday
>life (eg. hole in the head) even when we are not referring to a
>literal hole.


Hello again Nick,

You've got to agree that the reason even atmospheric scientists
call the October Antarctic ozone hole a "hole" is because the
concentration of ozone within that region of the stratosphere is
then so much less than in surrounding regions or another month
such as March. So it indeed is a terrifically lucky hit by Meier
if he was making it up some 10 years before it was observed and
reported. For those who need a way out on this one, however, it
is to notice that Meier was told of ozone holes (plural), not
just the one we observe seasonally over Antarctica.

>Now if Billy used the term ozone "celestrial"
>hole back then, I think many ufologists, including myself would
>take his claims a little more seriously.

I think that would have detracted from it, myself, since
"celestial" can be interpreted any number of ways that might not
refer to Earth's stratospheric ozone layer.

>(2) Let us assume that the actual term that Billy used (Brom) is
>actually Bromine, then you are correct to note that Bromine is
>not a part of the acronym CFC.  The fact is CFCs have always
>been understood to include Chlorine, Fluorine AND Bromine, since
>they are all Halogen gases and behave the same way chemically.
>Now if we assume that the term Brom actually is Broma (which in
>Greek means dirt or pollution - not an unreasonable assumption
>since Billy's wife was Greek), then Bromine may still have a
>connection since it is used in effective disinfectants.  If we
>now deal solely with reality, chemical products with Fluorine or
>Chlorine are made in much greater quantities (at least here on
>Earth) for a variety of applications than chemical products with
>Bromine.  So Bromine in itself would not be a threat to Earth's
>ozone layer.

The context was obviously of the element bromine and not of the
Greek word for dirt. Anyway, we can agree that chemical products
with bromine are indeed made in much smaller quantities than for
chlorine. That's probably why scientists neglected the role of
bromine for many years, until around 1985. Since then, due to
the fact that "bromine is, per atom, far more effective than
chlorine in destroying stratospheric ozone," attention has
shifted somewhat to include the role of bromine. (The quote is
from Science vol. 263 (4 March 1994), p. 1255.) Or read the
article in Science vol. 266 (21 Oct. 1994, p. 398) where it is
stated right in the abstract that "Halogen-radical chemistry was
responsible for approximately one-third of the photochemical
removal of O3; reactions involving BrO account for one-half of
this loss." So the role of bromine is now given equal prominence
to that of chlorine/fluorine. The main culprit seems to be
methyl bromide emitted in smoke plumes from agricultural burning
because methyl bromide is used as a pesticide.

I doubt that either one of us wishes to attribute all this
foresight to Billy alone. He was never a chemist!

>Maybe Billy's E.T.s are into disinformation too.

That could well be.

Jim Deardorff

http://www.proaxis.com/~deardorj





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   Mar > Mar 12

                  Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?

From: Judith Dale <judithdale@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 21:22:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:10:39 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?



>From: Kathy Kasten <KKASTEN@pathology.medsch.ucla.edu>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:54:00 -0800

Greetings Kathy,

"Kasten, Kathy" wrote:

>Judith:

>You are not belittling me.  You are questioning a possibility I
>put forward.

>However, you know very well that there are medical symptoms -
>whether noticed or not - before a heart attack.  Why you made
>such a statement? I don't know.  However, there were warnings
>and symptom.  Every doctor knows that. The possible pre-attack
>symptoms were gone over with me while I was laying in the ER
>working with the doctors to keep things under control.

You are correct. Sometimes, there are prodromal symptoms. Then
again, sometimes there's not. Which statement of mine are you
referring to ?

>Your assessment of my theory of Richard Hoagland's possible
>direct ELF/microwave pulsing (to the heart - if need be) shows
>that you need to read up on advanced  technology and what it is
>capable of.

Actually, I'm very aware of the what 'advanced technology' is
capable of. In fact, I've been aware of this for the past 20
yrs., or so. I've done extensive alternative healing work with
numerous folks who've been the victims of such.

What I've 'seen' regarding Richard's heartattack, did not reveal
any effects related to advanced technology. The heartattack was
the result of many influences. However, the anatomical weakness
was already in place.

>I don't mean to belittle your many years as a nurse, but your
>attitude is just what the TIs (targeted individual) battle
>every time they go to see a doctor.

>A blatant lack of knowledge of the underlying condition/prognosis.

The experiences you and others have had with traditional
healthcare, have perhaps led you to misinterpret my 'attitude'.

>Very soon now, you as a medical professional will not be able to
>evaluate all patients you see, the cause of their symptoms will
>just perplex you.

I doubt it. If  I only had my experience as a nurse in
traditional healthcare settings, that would be true.
Fortunately, for my clients, I have much more than that, to draw
from.

>However, the patient will know exactly what is happening.
>The patients will be more knowledgeable than the health
>professional.

Patients are 'more knowledgeable' then their healthcare provider
in many ways, now. Personally, I enjoy working with folks who
have a sense of what is going awry with their health. Saves me
some work. In addition, such folk are much more individually
empowered as the very center of the treatment team. This is
wonderful. Would that it be true with every patient/client that
I work with.

Best Regards,
Judith





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   Mar > Mar 12

                         Probe Sees New Face On Mars

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 05:18:59 GMT
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:18:38 -0500
Subject: Probe Sees New Face On Mars


Source:

http://www.astronomynow.com/breaking/990311mgs/index.html

Stig

***

Probe sees new face on Mars

ASTRONOMY NOW

March 11, 1999

[The Happy Face Crater, pictured this week by Mars Global
Surveyor. Photo: Malin Space Science Systems and NASA.]

NASA's Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft began its prime mapping
mission this week and one of its first things it saw was a
smiling face. NASA is hoping this new image isn't as
controversial as the last face on Mars picture which led to
theories that an alien civilization had carved it out of the
Martian rock.

The Happy Face Crater, as it is known, was imaged by the Mars
Orbiter Camera (MOC) on the first day of Global Surveyor's
mapping mission.

"The MOC team's happiness is perhaps best expressed by the
planet Mars itself," Malin Space Science Systems, which built
the camera, said in a caption accompanying the "happy face"
image.

The start of mapping has been delayed by over a year by
technical problems and scientists are delighted to start their
imaging work in earnest.

Mars Global Surveyor was launched to the Red Planet in November
1996 and arrived the following September. A damaged solar array
slowed efforts to lower the spacecraft's orbit and postponed the
start of its primary mission.

The next major activity for the Mars Global Suveyor team will be
the deployment of the spacecraft's dish-shaped high-gain antenna
on a 6.6-foot-long boom. The antenna has been folded against the
side of the spacecraft since launch to avoid contamination from
rocket firings.

Currently, Mars Global Surveyor has to stop taking pictures and
data to turn around and point its antenna back at earth. Once
the antenna is deployed it will be able to transmit data while
the probe's camera and instruments remain pointed at the Martian
surface.

The antenna is due to be deployed at the end of the month.



NewsAlert

Sign up for Astronomy Now's NewsAlert service and have the
latest news in astronomy and space e-mailed directly to your
desktop.

Your e-mail address:


*Return to Breaking News

This page copyright 1999 Pole Star Publications Ltd





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   Mar > Mar 12

               Cyclic Period Correlates 'UFO Crash' Retrievals

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 05:28:46 GMT
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:34:49 -0500
Subject: Cyclic Period Correlates 'UFO Crash' Retrievals


Source: alt.alien.visitors

Stig

***

From: Joe Ritrovato <joerit@flash.net>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO Crashes - Can They be Predicted?
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:24:05 GMT


To All Interested Parties,

There were two articles that I had printed in the MUFON UFO
Journal for March '95 and June '96 related to UFO waves and
flaps and their cyclic properties (with the possibility of
predicting future trends). There is another article I finished a
few months ago entitled "A Cyclic Period that Correlates with
Alleged UFO Crash Retrievals". MUFON may not be able to publish
it until a few months go by, but they gave me the ok to put it
on the internet in the mean time. For all those who would like
to check it out, you may find it at this URL:

http://www.flash.net/~joerit/ufocrash.html

Would appreciate any feedback that readers may have about the
contents of this article or how it could be improved, but please
read it all the way through before reaching any conclusions.

Thanks,  Joe Ritrovato






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                           Re: Meier Case - Redux

From: Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research <iufor@frii.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 22:32:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:38:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux


>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:37:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux

>>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:33:29 -0800 (PST)
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux

><snip>

>>You missed or misinterpreted Kim's points, as well as mine in a
>>subsequent post. Neither of us was claiming that it was unknown
>>in 1975 that CFC's would have a destructive effect upon the
>>ozone layer. As you say, that dates back to around 1969 or 1970.
>>But (1) go back and search for the phrase "ozone hole" and you
>>won't find it until in the 1980's. And (2) go back and search
>>for the thought that bromine, not just chlorine (and fluorine),
>>would be responsible for much ozone destruction. Again you won't
>>find it until in the 1980s. (CFC = chloro-fluoro-carbon fails to
>>contain a "B" that would stand for "bromo.") These were the two
>>items re O3 that Meier was clued to by his ET contactor that
>>aroused interest. However, as I pointed out, ozone holes
>>(plural), rather than the singular seasonal ozone hole over
>>Antarctica, have yet to be observed as far as I know.

>According to others, I miss or misinterpret a lot of things
>these days, especially if my comments are not in support of
>theirs.  Please let me make some additional comments to the the
>numbered ones you made.

>(1) First, there is no such thing as an ozone "hole".  Holes are
>simply regions where the concentration of ozone is much thinner
>than others because the rate of destruction of ozone is greater
>than the rate of the formation of ozone.  We have always used
>the expression "hole" in science (eg. Black Hole) or in everyday
>life (eg. hole in the head) even when we are not referring to a
>literal hole.  Now if Billy used the term ozone "celestrial"
>hole back then, I think many ufologists, including myself would
>take his claims a little more seriously.

Whether an ozone "hole" is truly a hole is immaterial in the
context of Jim's statement. The term "ozone hole" itself *does*
exist as a term in popular usage, and that term did not come
into being until the 1980's. That's all he said.

>(2) Let us assume that the actual term that Billy used (Brom) is
>actually Bromine, then you are correct to note that Bromine is
>not a part of the acronym CFC.

No assumption is necessary. Meier speaks German. "Brom" is the
German word for Bromine.

>The fact is CFCs have always
>been understood to include Chlorine, Fluorine AND Bromine, since
>they are all Halogen gases and behave the same way chemically.

Understood by whom? Despite having a degree in chemistry, I
don't have any such understanding. I would specifically exclude
the less reactive halogens Bromine and Iodine (well, OK, and
Astatine) from CFCs. They are called CFCs, and not HCCs
(halogenated carbon compounds) for a reason. The name means what
it says.

>Now if we assume that the term Brom actually is Broma (which in
>Greek means dirt or pollution - not an unreasonable assumption
>since Billy's wife was Greek), then Bromine may still have a
>connection since it is used in effective disinfectants.

It's far too nasty to be useful in any common products. Maybe you
could use it in a sealed sterilization chamber, if the materials of
the chamber could be made to stand up to it.

>If we
>now deal solely with reality, chemical products with Fluorine or
>Chlorine are made in much greater quantities (at least here on
>Earth) for a variety of applications than chemical products with
>Bromine.  So Bromine in itself would not be a threat to Earth's
>ozone layer.  Maybe Billy's E.T.s are into disinformation too.

Agreement. Bromine would not appear to be a problem with respect to
the ozone layer. Besides being less common, brominated carbon
compounds would be quite a bit heavier than CFCs and thus less likely
to diffuse up to the necessary altitude.

>Ozone holes (or areas of less ozone), although smaller than the
>ones over Earth's polar regions, have been observed and measured
>over industrial areas even before the polar ozone holes were
>discovered.  Dr. Alan Carswell, a physics professor who taught a
>course I took in 1974/75 had developed an laser radar system
>(lidar) which could accurately measure the quantity of different
>gases in the upper atmosphere over Toronto.  Lidar is now used
>to make ozone "hole" measurements all over the world.

>Unless there is something else I overlooked about what was
>revealed to Billy by E.T.s, he certainly wasn't told anything
>new, or even accurate.  Then again, who says E.T.s have to be
>more intelligent than man?

New to you, or new to Meier?

ETs may or may not be more intelligent, but if they got to us
before we got to them, they could be inferred to have a greater
accumulation of knowledge to draw upon.

>Nick Balaskas


--
    INSTITUTE FOR UFO RESEARCH
----------------------------------
Bob Thrift, Fort Collins, Colorado
    http://www.frii.com/~iufor/
      email: iufor@frii.com






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                            Re: Bell is no Rense

From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 22:08:48 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:43:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense


>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 03:02:57 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense

<snip>

Just thought I would share something a friend passed along to me.
Art Bell was recently on Larry King Live. I was sent the
transcript from that program

http://cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/9903/05/lkl.00.html

KING: When you got into this, did you become a believer or a
      reporter?

BELL: I'm still a reporter.

So much for being an entertainer.

KING: All right, there's -- you believe that? I mean, I like
      James [Praagh], but do you believe him?

BELL: You know, that puts me in such a position, because I am
      kind of like you are. In other words, I believe what I can
      put my hand on, I believe what I can touch, and I'm
      skeptical, despite what, you know, some of the publicity
      may be about me -- I'm skeptical about almost everything
         else.

Be sure to look at the other contradictions in the King
interview. Bell mentions his bogus resignation and was _sure_ to
let everyone know that he told Larry King what happened, in
confidence so Larry couldn't say anything of course. Nothing
like a man who puts an alleged family crisis on parade to
promote himself...that's just sick.

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III






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                     Re: UK Hoax - Yet More Information

From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:49:29 +0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:46:02 -0500
Subject: Re: UK Hoax - Yet More Information



>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UK Hoax - Yet More Information
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:24:35 -0000

>Dear All,

>Further developments have taken place. BUFOSC investigators have
>now spoken with 100 local people including those living nearest
>to the site of the supposed "landing". Not only had nobody heard
>or seen anything remotely resembling a UFO but the
>damaged/flattened area had been there for weeks _prior_ to the
>supposed events of Sunday night/Monday morning. This means that
>"Wenham" and "Sutton" probably sought out a flattened area in
>order to try and tie their false report in with the UFO 'landing
>and trace' case literature _and_ from an historical point of view.


<snip>

>I think we deserve 11 out of 10 on this one.

>Beware hoaxers!!

>Tim Matthews - Press Officer, British UFO Studies Centre.


Congrats, Tim.  Round of applause for your work and
thoroughness.

Cheers
SharonK







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                   Re: 'Sensational' Anti-Matter Discovery

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:10:34 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:56:28 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Sensational' Anti-Matter Discovery


>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 07:03:59 +0100 (MET)
>Subject: 'Sensational' Anti-Matter Discovery
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>Source:

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/sci/tech/newsid_291
>000/291299.stm

>Stig

>***

Dear Stig:  Please see below ..

>BBC News Online: Sci/Tech
>
>Friday, March 5, 1999 Published at 18:47 GMT
>
>'Sensational' anti-matter discovery
>
>By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse

>**

>The reason we are all made of matter and not anti-matter may
>have been discovered.

>The latest results from a particle accelerator near Chicago
>suggest that matter and anti-matter are not after all identical
>"mirror images" of one another.

>This could explain why all the anti-matter that existed at the
>Big Bang has disappeared.

<snip>

Stig:

That is one very interesting post!

I will see if I can learn any more about this recent discovery
re: antimatter anomalies.

These might eventually lead to very surprising and unexpected
discoveries in physics.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

BTW: I have been offline for 4 days due to phone line troubles.
I apologize for any unanswered messages. I have about 150 emails
to dig through now.   -LH






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                            Re: Bell is no Rense

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:54:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:54:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense




Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense

>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 22:08:48 -0800
>From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense


><snip>

>Just thought I would share something a friend passed along to me.
>Art Bell was recently on Larry King Live. I was sent the
>transcript from that program

>http://cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/9903/05/lkl.00.html

>KING: When you got into this, did you become a believer or a
>      reporter?

>BELL: I'm still a reporter.

>So much for being an entertainer.

>KING: All right, there's -- you believe that? I mean, I like
>      James [Praagh], but do you believe him?

>BELL: You know, that puts me in such a position, because I am
>      kind of like you are. In other words, I believe what I can
>      put my hand on, I believe what I can touch, and I'm
>      skeptical, despite what, you know, some of the publicity
>      may be about me -- I'm skeptical about almost everything
>         else.

>Be sure to look at the other contradictions in the King
>interview.

Royce,

Starting from your quote from the transcript above:


KING: When you got into this, did you become a believer or a
      reporter?

BELL: I'm still a reporter.


[...]


And then later Bell changes his job description...


KING: When you do all you do, and you talk to all the people
      you always talk to, I know you said earlier that you were
      a reporter, but do you also become...

BELL: I'm not a reporter. I'm a talk show host -- difference.


ebk






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                       Re: Dundee Mountain Wisconsin?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:23:17 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:56:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Dundee Mountain Wisconsin?


>From: Chad Kowalewski <Chad.Kowalewski@valpo.edu>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Dundee Mountain Wisconsin?
>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 07:19:44 -0600 (Central Standard Time)

>A few days ago on TLC I saw a portion of a UFO show where they
>discussed UFO activity around Dundee Mtn, in Wisconsin.

>Since I live only an hour away I am going to go up and
>investigate this.

>Does anyone have any information regarding this site.


Dear Chad:

I cannot find Dundee Mtn. in my gazetteer. If you could locate
it for me, long/lat. coordinates are best, I will look and see
if the area has been busy in the past.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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   Mar > Mar 12

                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 02:13:52 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:02:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?


>From: googong@interact.net.au
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:47:05 +1000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

>>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:56:16 -0800
>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Zecharia Sitchin?

><big snip>

>>My only input was to ask what Astronomers might think of the
>>planetary portions of Sitchin's writings.

>At the url:

>http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa/twelfthp.html

>I give my answer to this question.

>>After a brief exchange of letters with Sitchin some years back,
>>it became evident that some of the the simplest elements of
>>astronomy were lost on him.

>I'm not surprised at this.

>Bill Alford
>http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa

>Bill Alford googong@interact.net.au
>http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa

Dear Bill:

Again, apologies for the late response, the phone line was dead
for 4 days.

I visited the web page .../twelfthp.html. The unlikelihood of
such a planet is manifest.

The only thing I might add is the following question:

Suppose such a planet did exist, for the sake of argument.

With an extremely elliptical orbit, a 'year' or period of (what,
3600 years?)

What sort of 'climate' would such a planet have?

Would not the winter temperatures approach absolute zero? Any
sort of atmosphere would liquefy and part of it would probably
freeze.

This is not the sort of environment I would recommend as the
birthplace of microbes, let alone higher species leading up to
the godlike 'Annunaki'.

With the Sitchin's 12th planet either pulled apart or thrown out
of the solar system entirely, we have a Valhalla only a mother
could love.

Very best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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                           Re: Meier Case - Redux

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 02:31:28 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:04:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux


>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:37:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux

>>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:33:29 -0800 (PST)
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux

><snip>

>>Nick,

>>You missed or misinterpreted Kim's points, as well as mine in a
>>subsequent post. Neither of us was claiming that it was unknown
>>in 1975 that CFC's would have a destructive effect upon the
>>ozone layer. As you say, that dates back to around 1969 or 1970.
>>But (1) go back and search for the phrase "ozone hole" and you
>>won't find it until in the 1980's. And (2) go back and search
>>for the thought that bromine, not just chlorine (and fluorine),
>>would be responsible for much ozone destruction. Again you won't
>>find it until in the 1980s. (CFC = chloro-fluoro-carbon fails to
>>contain a "B" that would stand for "bromo.") These were the two
>>items re O3 that Meier was clued to by his ET contactor that
>>aroused interest. However, as I pointed out, ozone holes
>>(plural), rather than the singular seasonal ozone hole over
>>Antarctica, have yet to be observed as far as I know.

>According to others, I miss or misinterpret a lot of things
>these days, especially if my comments are not in support of
>theirs.  Please let me make some additional comments to the the
>numbered ones you made.

>(1) First, there is no such thing as an ozone "hole".  Holes are
>simply regions where the concentration of ozone is much thinner
>than others because the rate of destruction of ozone is greater
>than the rate of the formation of ozone.  We have always used
>the expression "hole" in science (eg. Black Hole) or in everyday
>life (eg. hole in the head) even when we are not referring to a
>literal hole.  Now if Billy used the term ozone "celestrial"
>hole back then, I think many ufologists, including myself would
>take his claims a little more seriously.

<snip>

>Unless there is something else I overlooked about what was
>revealed to Billy by E.T.s, he certainly wasn't told anything
>new, or even accurate.  Then again, who says E.T.s have to be
>more intelligent than man?


Fellow UpDates members,

Back in the 1970s I was impressed by the Contact photographs and
film segments. Since then I have followed the saga of trying to
interpret the reality of the above. I have been somewhat dubious
about his Semjase contact. Now people are attempting to
extrapolate one statement as proof of Billy Meir having revealed
knowledge in advance of other earthlings.

My common sense leads me to believe that an alleged alien
contact with advanced information and a new spirituality would
be intelligent enough to have knowledge of earthlings' attempts
to prove UFO events and alien contact. I feel that an alien who
would choose one earthling to disseminate an important message
would surely provide readily evident factual proof so that the
chosen one would not be questioned as to the reality of the
contact and the disseminated information. The ozone "hole"
statement is indeed a very slender thread even if shown to be
true.

Some of you may be believe in personages, events, books, or
teachings in organized religions or spiritual paths. I am not
trying to demean anyone having faith in same. Yet when one
examines what is documented related to the life of Jesus
(outside of the new testament) as recorded in the Essene scrolls
(the sect he belonged to = hippies B.C.), one finds six very
different recordings of who Jesus was and the story of his life.
Those were written during his time, whereas the gospels were
stories that were all written well after his alleged
crucifixion. Considering the formation of the Christian and
Catholic religious structures after Jesus was gone, the
ecumenical council of 200 A.D. rewrote the bible to only contain
the message of the church doctrine regarding Jesus. I am not
writing this as a Jew who does not like Christianity. Speaking
only for myself, I find the Judeo - Christian concepts of "the
Lord" rather limited. I am more at home with the God - Goddess,
Gods, Great Spirits, other deities, creation, life force
questions being more of a mystery as opposed to the human
attempts to describe what may be an ineffable that we may well
not yet understand. I place my faith in our evolution, our ever
growing knowledge of ourselves, this wonderful planet, and our
growing knowledge of what is beyond. I am trying to keep an open
mind for future discovery. Who knows, I may be totally wrong in
my concepts.

I once took part in a series of experiments with an
ansthesiologist who was studying the altered state produced by
an aenesthetic drug with doses less than those given during
surgery. This was something like the movie "Flatline". My body
was totally anesthetised and I experienced living in
fascinating, complex alien universes where I was in awe. Most
profound was an experience of bliss. A love and spiritual
connection well beyond anything I have experienced in my normal
life. I felt this was it, true spiritual love. The light. I saw
no people, beings, etc. However, considering the influence of
the psychedelic surgical anaesthetic, my psychological set, I
can not answer just what that experience was.

Yet every time I think about those times I feel the great love
in my heart planted by that experience. Was it real? It felt
that this was it, more real than my other life. Was it an
opening directly to spirit (God)? Did I somehow turn on my
receiver? Was it received from outside my brain or from normally
unknown deep levels within my brain?  Am I but one manifestation
of this spirit? Did my mind leave my body and go somewhere else?

I can't answer those types of questions (was it real or not even
though it felt more real, loving, and connected than any other
experiences)? At this point I can leave it as a wonderful
experience that left much food for thought and grounds for
further research. It was a mystery that took place in me.

I know, the above is my own message, but I am using it to once
again say that an extraordinary message requires extraordinary
proof. For me to have faith and believe in Billy Meir's
experience and his alleged messages from Semjase, it would take
extraordinary, incontrovertible evidence that he nor his film
have not yet provided.







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              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 03:05:15 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:09:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed


>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 21:03:51 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
>>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 19:50:03 EST
>>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed.

>>Secret Government Technology
>>by Edgar Rothschild Fouche
>>Copyright 1998, Fouche Media Associates
>>http://fouchemedia.com/arap/speech.htm

>> Presentation By Edgar Rothschild Fouche

>> International UFO Congress

>> Laughlin, Nevada 1998

><snip>

>>SLIDE 72: TR-3B Schematic diagram

>>A circular, plasma filled accelerator ring called the Magnetic
>>Field Disrupter, surrounds the rotatable crew compartment and is
>>far ahead of any imaginable technology.

>>Sandia and Livermore laboratories developed the reverse
>>engineered MFD technology. The government will go to any lengths
>>to protect this technology. The plasma, mercury based, is
>>pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a temperature of 150
>>degrees Kelvin and accelerated to 50,000 rpm to create a
>>super-conductive plasma with the resulting gravity disruption.

>Sounds like a crock to me!

250,000 atmospheres? That's 3,675,000 pounds per square inch.
150 Kelvin? Positively cryogenic. You want to make a plasma out
of that? You can't even make a gas, let alone a plasma. My best
guess is liquid mercury would freeze solid under such
conditions.

i.e. Sounds like a crock to me too. -LH.

>>The MFD generates a magnetic vortex field, which disrupts or
>>neutralizes the effects of gravity on mass within proximity, by
>>89 percent. Do not misunderstand. This is not antigravity.
>>Anti-gravity provides a repulsive force that can be used for
>>propulsion.

>Sounds like a crock to me.

Magnetic vortex field? Huh? Hoodat? Sounds like a crock to me
too.

>>The MFD creates a disruption of the Earth's gravitational field
>>upon the mass within the circular accelerator. The mass of the
>>circular accelerator and all mass within the accelerator, such
>>as the crew capsule, avionics, MFD systems, fuels, crew
>>environmental systems, and the nuclear reactor, are reduced by
>>89%.

>Sounds like a crock to me!

A mass reduction! Disrupted gravitational field! And, by 89%,
(not 75% or 90%) ... Shazam!

Sounds like a crock to me too. -LH

Best wishes:

-Larry Hatch

PS: The spinning mercury idea is not new. It goes back to the
vimana ( flying saucers ) of ancient legend in India.







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                     Re: UK Hoax - Yet More Information

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 07:00:44 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:12:18 -0500
Subject: Re: UK Hoax - Yet More Information


Hi Tim,

I wanted to express my appreciation for the researchers in this
case who have been instrumental in exposing this hoax.

This kind of self-policing is exactly the sort of thing skeptics
_don't_ want to hear, because it flys in the face of everything
they've been telling the world about ufologists, namely that
they will believe anything, at any cost.

The recent exposing of the Mexico City video, the apparent
exposing of the crop circle/light ball video, and some others
(all by ufologists, not by debunkers mind you) is indicative
that indeed we HAVE come a long way in ufology, that we have
advanced, and that we are no longer slaves to the desire for a
particular piece of evidence to be true.

Keep up the good work all!

Greg St. Pierre






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                          Phoenix Lights Chronology

From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 07:52:45 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:15:26 -0500
Subject: Phoenix Lights Chronology



Phoenix Lights Chronology
by
Bill Hamilton

http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/phoenix2.htm

Date:99-03-12 06:09:09 EST
From:skywatcher22@hotmail.com (Bill Hamilton)
Reply-to:ufolist@egroups.com
To: Ufoseek.org


UFOSEEK,

Let me add this report to what Peter Davenport has released on
his website.  I will be on KTAR radio along with Peter this
afternoon in Phoenix.

These are the events that occurred on March 13, 1997 as
uncovered by Michael Tanner and myself:

1.  FORMATION OF HOVERING ORBS - First observed in a hexagram
pattern at about 7:30 p.m. over the Superstition Mountains area
east of Phoenix in the characteristic 8+1(or 2) formation of
amber orbs and was next seen in two separate arc patterns with
"trailing lights" over Gila River area at about 9:50 and again
at 10:00 at the southern edge of Phoenix where they were seen by
thousands  and videotaped by a handful who had camcorders close
enough at hand to catch the fleeting minutes of their displays.
These amateur videos have immortalized the orb formations,
becoming known around the world as The Phoenix Lights.  These
are the very same lights that started the controversy over
"flares" and that will be taken up in the next chapter.  The
last appearance of the hovering orbs of the night was made over
a now recognized "hot-spot" of Rainbow Valley arrayed in a "V"
formation at about 2:00 a.m. on March 14th (and again appeared
on January 14, 1998).

2.  "V" FORMATION OF FLYING ORBS - First seen leaving the
Henderson-Las Vegas area and entering Arizona at high speed, a
V-formation of five to seven orbs, variously seen as bright
blue-white to a yellow-white, came through the Prescott Valley
area at low altitude by 7:50 p.m., turning south, where by 8:28,
were videotaped (displaying their characteristic movement within
the formation) at the north end of the valley that comprises the
Phoenix metro area.  In an apparent slower mode of flight, the
orbs appeared at that point as amber in color as the formation
moved along Interstate 10 angling toward Tucson after having
been visually seen (not on radar) to intersect air traffic
coming in on approach to Sky Harbor International Airport.
After hovering for several minutes over a car full of witnesses
driving north on I-10 at 65 mph, the formation was then picked
up by observers in the Oracle area who reported the orbs' color
as red to red-orange before the formation split up, going in
separate directions while skirting the edges of the Tucson
metropolitan area.  At various points independent of this very
specific formation, individual orbs were seen to shoot across
the metro Phoenix valley with some moving away from and then
re-docking with one or more of the Very Large Objects (VLOs)
which came through later in the night.

3.  CHEVRON VLO (narrow angle) - Observed first as a "V"
formation of five white lights moving slowly and silently toward
Prescott Valley from the northwest at about 8:15 p.m., the
"chevron" was soon clearly seen as a single object.  The huge
craft made a pivot turn over the witnesses' home there while the
lights shifted into an arc formation while the lights turned red
and then it shot off at blinding speed toward Phoenix.  At that
time the next set of witnesses in central Phoenix saw the object
coming directly toward them (estimated at Mach 2 or 3) while
still in the "turbo" mode arc configuration, and then, as if to
slow back down again, was seen to change back into a "V"
whereupon it cruised silently and slowly right over their heads
(only 100 to 200 feet above at 10 or 15 mph).  The craft was
later seen to zigzag through the valley, even changing altitude
at various points and hovering for five minutes at the edge of
Sky Harbor before proceeding south (right over the Village Lab
building) to Interstate-10.  After following I-10 several miles
to Picacho Peak, the enormous craft (estimated at 900 feet or
more on each leading edge and more than a mile in length to its
"taillights") hovered once again for 10 to 15 minutes until
there was no further track of it.  According to Michael, this is
a possible docking point for this craft and the giant triangle
that followed it down I-10 some fifteen minutes later.  This
same "chevron" or similar craft was seen traveling east to west
over north Phoenix at about 10:50 p.m.

4.  BOOMERANG VLO (wide angle) - This "V" formation, consisting
of five groups of three lights, was confirmed to be a single
huge object by various Prescott-area witnesses, being equivalent
to a formation of five 747s flying absolutely lock-step in
formation toward Phoenix.  The craft was seen to make a
southerly turn at about 8:25, once again, in the Prescott Valley
area, after first approaching from the northwest.  This VLO was
later seen (although not clearly enough to identify) by an
America West pilot who called Sky Harbor tower wondering what
"those nine lights were", and an amateur astronomer in Phoenix
who wrote it off as a formation of conventional airplanes.  It
is possible that this craft was the same as the giant
triangle(wide angle) described below.

5.  TRIANGULAR VLO (narrow angle) - This is the one seen by the
family in Chandler.  It may be the same Triangle or Deltoid
craft seen by others as a wide angle craft.  It had definite
structure complete with panels in a grid along with lights at
each of the three corners and a larger center light.  Multiple
witnesses confirm its northwest to southeast flight path through
the eastern part of the valley with some observers seeing one or
more orbs leaving and then re-docking with this VLO at various
points.  This particular craft was seen to "split in two" by a
resident in Gilbert, south of Chandler.

6.  BIG BLACK TRIANGLE (wide angle) - By all accounts the
largest of the VLOs in the March 13th parade of craft, this
gigantic craft was first seen at close range over north Phoenix
between 8:30 and 8:45 where the key witnesses (real estate
people who subdivided the area) estimated its size to be as much
as two miles wide as its wingtip lights fell over two parallel
streets that are 1.8 miles apart.  Its flight path brought it
low to the ground at this point (less than 2,000 feet) where it
was seen to not only have dozens of lights along its leading
edges, but also a row of windows wherein the silhouettes of
"people" were observed!  At some point further south, other
witnesses reported that they saw nothing but the row of windows
with beings (also in silhouette) as all of the lights were
turned off at that point.  By the time the VLO was seen over
I-10 south of Casa Grande, however, three large lights were seen
to be turned on, one at each corner, with smaller lights on
along with the leading headlight.  The witnesses here reported
that it took them one to two minutes to drive under this immense
ship while they were driving at 80 mph!  They estimated the
width of this VLO to be at least two, possibly three miles wide
and big enough for a C5-A Galaxy or "Condor" troop transport
(the largest conventional aircraft known) to land upon it!  The
craft had definite structure to it and the family of witnesses
described its color as a flat blue-black like the color of a
shotgun barrel.  They also reported seeing rectangular
"panel-like" structures on the underside of this craft.

Another large triangle was seen moving just north of Thunderbird
Road at around 10:45 p.m., but the configuration of the triangle
was different.  That triangle had a V-cut into its trailing edge
to give it a very distinctive look.

7.  GIANT DISCOID VLO - Witnessed first by a retired airline
pilot, his sons and a friend, and seen coming down Scottsdale
Road at about 10:20 p.m., this huge circular craft, featuring
amber lights around its perimeter (at an estimated one mile in
diameter)  was seen to make a purposeful turn toward Sky Harbor
at about Camelback Road where it also intersected air traffic
before disappearing from view over South Mountain.  The
corroborating central Phoenix witness, also a former pilot
(Vietnam) and retired U.S. Marshal, described how the craft both
reflected the city lights on its underbelly and blocked out the
stars with its upper half, attesting to its being a single craft
of spectacular "mile-wide" proportions.  This witness also
claimed to have videotaped what he saw from the roof of his
apartment building, but his tapes mysteriously disappeared in
what may amount to a genuine "men-in-black (MIB)" episode.  This
craft may also have docked with the "chevron" craft and cloaked
in "visual stealth" mode in its earlier pass through Phoenix at
about 8:20 to 8:30, but this is purest speculation.  The two
craft reappeared (or two similar ones) in June and were
photographed together at high altitude over Phoenix by the same
witnesses with a 35mm camera while also viewing them with
binoculars.  A separate set of unconnected witnesses also
reported the sighting of a huge discoid craft (bigger than Sun
Devil Stadium at ASU) hovering at treetop level right off of the
west end of the Sky Harbor runways at between 2:00 and 3:00 a.m.
one morning about two weeks before March 13th.

8.  MILITARY JET/UFO INTERCEPTION ATTEMPTS - We have to date
identified four such events (there may be more) that clearly
point to the conclusion that the Phoenix Lights UFO incident of
March 13, 1997 was certainly no secret "black ops" or classified
military exercise as many people would like to believe.  A woman
who lives next to Luke Air Force Base in the west part of the
valley surfaced to report that at least 6 pairs of jets and as
many as 8 were "scrambled" out of the base on the night of March
13th, something she could never recall witnessing before.  One
researcher called Luke AFB and asked someone who was out on the
flight line if anything was seen by base personnel, and,
unofficially, he answered that "they" were all over the place.
The response from Luke spokesmen and their response to FOIA
requests indicate that they were receiving phone calls about the
lights, but never scrambled any jets to pursue them.  Witnesses
say different.  Here are the witness reports:

A)  Crown King at 5:30 p.m. - A formation of 3 huge "Vs" were
seen hovering over this pine-topped mountain and were soon
joined by a diamond-shaped or triangular craft which appeared
"out of thin air" (at first seen as an amber light).  As the
four objects were hovering together, two jets were seen to come
low from the south (from the direction of Luke AFB) at which
point the UFOs went into a "stack", collapsed upon each other
while going "into a ball", then totally disappeared!  This would
be called a case of high strangeness.  Finding nothing there,
the two jets circled the Crown King area and returned in the
direction of the base.  Similar disappearing acts of formations
of "Vs", one over Lake Mead that afternoon and on March 27th
over Elmont, New York were reported to Village Labs after seeing
the article published in USA Today.

B)  Central Phoenix at 8:15 p.m. - A pair of F-15s were
dispatched from Luke AFB to attempt an interception of one or
more of the Vs approaching or entering the valley at that time.
This was reported to NUFORC by a ground crewman at Luke who
stated that the aircraft were equipped with gun cameras and that
one of the pilots had to be helped out of his plane because he
was so shaken by his encounter.  A cursory check revealed that
Luke AFB no longer has F-15s in its inventory and only has the
F-16 aircraft.  However, at one time both were maintained at
Luke.  Could these F-15s have been visiting aircraft?  There is
still some attempt to locate the civilian witness who
corroborated this story.

C) North Phoenix at 9:30 p.m. - One of the witnesses who had
earlier witnesses with his wife the giant wide-angle triangle
reported that when he was later at home, he saw in the distance
what appeared to be the return of the triangle, this time with
only three lights on, one at each corner.  As the UFO hovered
near the Deer Valley Airport in northwest Phoenix, he saw two
military jets approach the triangle, with one jet seen to pass
one side of it and the other seen to fly up under it, veering
down at the last moment to avoid midair collision.

D) Luke AFB at 10:00 p.m. - (The original Event 4 - the first
aircraft/UFO encounter to be reported).  A truck driver who had
been watching two unusual amber lights move ahead of him to the
south for fully two hours as he drove down I-17 from Camp Verde,
reported that as he neared his destination, a materials plant
near Luke AFB, the two UFOs seemed to have stopped their
movement and were hovering.  Once at the plant, while waiting
for his truck to be unloaded, he stood on a pile of materials to
watch what were now seen as two identical, toy-top like amber
orbs (like hot air balloons without hanging baskets) having a
white iridescent sheen and a band of red pulsating light, with
the nearest to him being one to two miles distant right near the
runway at Luke.  Suddenly, two F-16s, followed by a third,
"blasted out of Luke with their afterburners on full", made a
steep bank directly over the witness and headed straight for the
nearest UFO.  At the moment the lead jets were about to close on
the UFO, it shot straight up and disappeared "in an instant" as
the jets passed right through the very spot where the object had
been hovering.  The second UFO also vanished, as it was no
longer hovering in the northwest.

As you can see by Michael Tanner's event analysis and my own
event analysis, there was a lot of activity on March 13th, yet
the media chose to cover only 2 of these events.  The Big Black
Triangle has been virtually ignored by the journalists and is
considered significant since these triangles have been reported
more frequently throughout most of the world.


Bill Hamilton
Executive Director
Skywatch International, Inc.
____________________________________

Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News:
UFOSEEK... For the Source! http://www.ufoseek.org
Mirror Site: http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/





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                                  Web-Links

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:20:25 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:18:46 -0500
Subject: Web-Links


Subject: Web-Links:

Hi To All,

Firstly before I begin I would just like to pass my good will
wishes to Mr Richard Hoagland and his immediate family at the
time of his failing health may he soon recover.

We all have our views on the UFO subject and at some time or
another we have clashed with each other, due to the strength of
our beliefs this is "Human Nature" and so it will continue.

I would say that whatever our beliefs are concerning ufology I
would hope that such events as Hoaglands ill health would remind
us all of how much common we do have in each other, that is we
are all open to such things.

I have personally seen what a heart attack can do to someone and
it is not nice to witness, so I hope Richard makes a speedy
recovery also on behalf of Down To Earth Magazine.

Speaking of which I am currently adding Links to my Link page of
my forth-coming web-site.

Q: If you would like to be included on this Link page either
your E-mail address or if you have a web-site yourself then
please forward the appropriate information to

roy.hale@virgin.net

and in the subject box of your E-mail:

please type: LINK PAGE:

Regards to everyone..

Roy..





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                              Filer's Files #10

From: George A. File <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:36:51 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:09:22 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #10


Filer's Files #10-1999,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, MUFON Eastern Director,
March 11, 1999,

Majorstar@aol.com

(609) 654-0020

VENUS AND JUPITER FAIL TO GENERATE UFO REPORTS

For the first time in 25 years, the planets Venus and Jupiter
passed within one-tenth of a degree from each other in the
evening sky on February 23, 1999. While their closest approach
is over, the two will remain fairly close together early in the
evening in the west-southwest sky as they drift apart over the
next several weeks.  Apparently, millions around the world saw
the brilliant display, but few if any UFO reports were generated
by their near conjunction.  Based on my review of hundreds of
UFO reports very few seem to be caused by stars or planets.  The
Air Force claimed, "Astronomical sightings were responsible for
only 2.79% of KNOWN Blue Book sightings."  Several recent
reports mentioned the reason they looked at the sky was the
brightness of the two planets and then noticed MOVING UFOs. The
next three stories discuss possible UFO near misses or accidents
with our aircraft.

CALIFORNIA:  MARINE F-18 HAS NEAR MISS WITH UFO

SAN DIEGO -- The International Society for UFO Research (ISUR)
has received intriguing information from a former Air Wing
Marine once stationed at Miramar Air Station.  In November of
1995, a pilot in his squadron, VMFA-212 (F/A-18Cs) had a
near-collision with a slender cigar-shaped UFO. Interestingly,
the UFO was recorded on the plane's "Heads-Up Display video"
according to this former enlisted Marine who viewed the tape.
Excerpts, with names, addresses and phone numbers deleted, from
several e-mail exchanges between ISUR and the ex-Marine follow.
Ex-Marine's initial description of a "12:00 noon," November
1995, incident: I was in the Marine Corps.  Two of our pilots
had just gotten back from a flight.  One of them called for
intelligence and me (flight scheduling rep).  He showed us the
Heads Up Display video from the flight.  He was engaging the
other pilot in a dogfighting exercise when a "cigar-shaped"
object zipped past the F-18.  We slowed it down to a crawl, but
it was traveling so fast initially that it was a blur even at
the speed we viewed.  The object came so close to the jet, the
pilot thought it would hit him.  Later in the video, the F-18 in
front is preparing to bank right.  Just before he does a glare
on the video banks quickly to the left about 2 seconds before
either jet made a move.  I personally acquired the flight
clearance the day before and there should not have been any
activity even in the area.  However, it was never explained and
shortly declassified.  Everyone discarded the situation as
either a mistake by someone on the ground or a natural
phenomenon.  According to what the pilot, and the rest of us saw
on the video, the object was approximately 12 feet in length and
3 feet wide.  The name of the squadron was VMFA-212 (F/A-18Cs).
The video has probably been copied over, deleted or discarded.
On February 22 and 23, 1999 several UFOs were reported in the
Miramar Air Station area. Thanks to ISUR and board member John
Thompson.

GEORGIA  F-4 ACCIDENT AND UFO

investigator John Thompson reports that on March 6, 1994, an
Alabama Air National Guard F-4 exploded in mid-flight over Heard
County, Georgia.  A Heard County fireman, Bill Thompson who is
not related to John said, "Two minutes before the explosion and
crash of the F-4,  he saw the F-4 chasing a missile- like or
cigar-shaped UFO."  Bill's description was that the gray or
silver colored UFO was about "a third to half the size of the
F-4" chasing it.  This, of course, suggests a UFO of the same
type and size that the California VMFA-212 pilot almost collided
with in 1995.  Relating to the ANG explosion, in which the pilot
died, the Air Force said the mishap was caused by bad welds.
These inadequate welds, according to the Air Force's official
crash report, originated with the plane's number one engine
(GEOO420459).  The failure of the welds, according to the USAF
was the sole reason for the upper combustion case failure that
subsequently caused the F-4 to explode in mid- flight. A General
Electric engineer who subsequently investigated the crash,
because of a law suit against General Electric, the manufacturer
of the plane's engines, said that he thought the pilot had
over-stressed the F-4, causing it to tear apart and explode.  Of
course, if the F-4 was chasing or suddenly encountered a small
thin cigar-shaped UFO, as Fireman Bill Thompson claims, its
pilot might over-stress his plane in his excitement.

There is also a precedent for something exactly like this
happening.  In the Paris Air Show of 1972, the Soviets
introduced their new TU-144 supersonic plane.  According to a
PBS Nova special that aired last year, the French now admit that
they had a Mirage jet "shadowing" the Soviet aircraft and that
the Soviet pilot on avoiding the Mirage, which before had been
unseen, pulled the TU-144 apart.  In the video of the plane's
tragic crash, which was aired on Nova, the TU-144 can be seen
disintegrating and exploding in midair.  Despite what the Air
Force and the retired colonel said, the F-4's explosion could
have come about from over-stress as General Electric's
investigator said happened.  These "missile" like UFOs have been
seen repeatedly in the Long Island Sound area by commercial
airliners.  It can be speculated that one of these UFOs caused
the TWA 800 disaster that to many, still remains unsolved. The
ex-Marine's testimony lends credibility to Fireman Thompson's
claims that a UFO may have indirectly caused the ANG F-4 to
explode.  The full investigation of the 3/4/94 incident can be
seen at: http://www.isur.com/cases/case_fil.cgi?file=3D100113.
Thanks to John Thompson.

SWISSAIR NEAR MISS UPDATE BY CANADIAN PRESS

Stephen Thorn of The Canadian Press (CP)has learned.  Swissair
Flight 127 was cruising at 23,000 feet on Aug. 9, 1997,  when
the pilot interrupted an address to passengers to report the
near miss by a round white object, says a report by the U.S.
National Transportation Safety Board.  "Sir, I don't know what
it was, but it just flew like a couple of hundred feet above
us," he radioed Boston air traffic control. "I don't know if it
was a rocket or whatever, but incredibly fast, opposite
direction."  "In the opposite direction?" asked the controller.
"Yes sir, and the time was 2107 (Greenwich mean time). It was
too fast to be an airplane."  The controller asked another
aircraft if its crew saw anything like a missile in the area?
The reply was negative. He then asked the Swissair pilot again
how far above the plane it was?  "It was right over us, right
above, opposite direction, and, and I don't know, two, three,
four hundred feet above.  All that I can tell, 127, is that (we)
saw a light object, it was white, and very fast."  FBI, FAA and
Safety Board Investigators interviewed the captain and first
officer on Aug. 10, 1997.  The report, filed under NYC97SA193,
said the flight was opposite John F. Kennedy Airport at 5:07 PM
Eastern time - near the area where TWA Flight 800 went down July
17, 1996, after taking off from JFK; 230 persons died. Some
believe a missile caused the midair explosion of the TWA 747 off
Long Island.  The Transportation Safety Board report said the
Swissair captain saw the cylindrical object for less than a
second.  He did not see any wings and was not sure it was an
aircraft.  "He had never been so close to other traffic before,"
said the report. "It passed over the cockpit, slightly right of
centerline.  If it had been any lower, it would have hit the
aircraft.  "As the object passed by, there was no noise, no wake
turbulence, and no disruption or anomalies with any of the
flight or engine instruments."  The plane was flying in clear
weather to Boston from Philadelphia.  He did not have time to
take evasive action.  "There was no exhaust or smoke, and he
could not accurately discern its size.  The captain reported his
total time as 15,000 plus flight hours.  He had never seen a
missile in flight."  The first officer, whose flight time was
7,500 hours, said he was bent over, when he looked up and saw
the object pass overhead "very quickly.  "It was close enough
that he ducked his head because he thought it would hit them.
He thought it passed about 100 to 200 feet above the airplane
and between the right side of the fuselage and the No. 3
engine."  The first officer said no markings were visible and
the object appeared to be the size of a thumbnail held at arm's
length.  He said he had previously encountered a weather balloon
over Italy, and the object did not look like the balloon.  He
had previously witnessed missile launches from the ground.  The
report said the nearest weather balloons are launched from
Upton, NY, 45 miles northeast of JFK twice daily, at 3:00 AM and
7:00 PM Eastern time and usually take 25 to 28 minutes to reach
23,000 feet.  Balloons are light tan or brownish, or black and
red, adding the wind was blowing from the north, almost at right
angles to the aircraft.  The Canadian Press, 1999, Dunn, Steven
J. News: UFOSEEK. http://www.ufoseek.org  Editors Note: MUFON
investigator Bob Durant and the Fund For UFO Research have
produced a study of this case.

NEW YORK

LAURENS -- Kenneth Pirone reports he had a sighting on March 9,
1999.  "I was getting ready for bed, and happened to look out my
rear bedroom window when I noticed a large low flickering star.
"As I looked the object moved left then right and came back to
the original spot."  I noticed it had a green, blue, orange, and
pinkish tint light that flickered continuously.  I grabbed my
binoculars and could see all kinds of flashing lights and that
it was a round shape hovering about 200 yards above the tree.  I
woke my wife up and she also saw it.  I also called a friend
down in the valley but he was unable to see it.  I am a Vietnam
Veteran who has seen many types of aircraft.  None compares with
the UFO we saw for 20 minutes.  My son-in-law a State Trooper is
coming over with his camcorder and we're going up into the hills
to get a better look at that UFO.  607-432-0438 Cty. Hwy. 11,
Laurens, 13810

ALABAMA

WADLEY -- Jimmy S. writes that since February 10, 1999, I have
had a growing group of people in east central Alabama are
telling me about strange things they have been seeing.  I have 4
reports of strange lights, and 1 report of a craft in this area.
All on different dates but, all within two counties. Something
weird is going on down here.  I am trying to keep track of
everything.  I have two reports of strange lights that have
multiple witnesses whom I know personally and I believe them.
Thanks to  John  Thompson" <gin@mindspring.com

FLORIIDA--.

RIVIERA BEACH -- A witness writes: "I was unpacking my car trunk
on January 28, 1999, at 5:50 AM when I looked up and saw coming
right at me very slowly was a pair of white car headlights at
about 300 feet in the air.  I stood and watched for a few
seconds.  I heard no sound even though the ship was upwind. I
whirled around to fetch my camera from the house and a few
seconds later I was back outside.  I could now see the UFO.  No
white 'headlights' now! Instead, a complete V-shaped golden
ship.  It continued moving west over me, then changed course to
SSW at about 65-70 mph.  You can see the ship and trees.  Thanks
to Mark & Mary M. Zimmer. Their web page is
http://home.gzinc.com/mmz/skyscan.htm

COLORADO AND NEW MEXICO

DEL NORTE AIRFIELD -- Rio Grande County a couple called to
report watching "a large straw-colored light hovering over Jeep
Hill," 1/4 mile away to the SW of their house on March 4, 1999,
at 11:00 PM.  They estimated the size of the light to be "15
feet in diameter."  The craft or object then turned on a
spotlight that illuminated the area below it.  BLACK LAKE, NM --
Mar 8, 1999 at 8:30 PM, a bright white light appeared to rise
from behind the mountains, to the altitude of a passing jet.
The light paced the plane and headed south toward Las Vegas, NM.
Thanks to Christopher O'Brien  tmv@amigo.net

WASHINGTON

Tom Sheets reports that March 11, 1999, Art Bell show featured
Peter Davenport of the National UFO Reporting Center and a
senior Washington State MUFON Field Investigator Robert Fairfax.
Fairfax related that he is investigating a case now where 14
witnesses allege that they witnessed a rather small UFO abduct
an elk from a rural area.  The disc like object was described by
Fairfax as being about the same size as the elk, and witnesses
told him that it seemed to have a problem getting it up, up and
away i.e. the UFO seemed to change shape as it lifted it up.
Former NASA scientist Paul Hill indicates that UFOs have a
plasma field surrounding the craft.  This can change shape
depending on the movement or conduct of the UFO, as described in
Paul Hill's 'Unconventional Flying Objects' book as recommended
at our recent MUFON meetings.)  Apparently the elk was 'sucked'
up and was suspended beneath the craft by some unknown
mechanism.  It is unknown if the witnesses were all together as
a group (which sometimes MAY indicate a hoax is afoot in bizarre
cases) or if they were separate and unknown to one another
(which is great and I hope they were as it will indicate the
witnesses are for real).  Thanks to MUFON GA State Director Tom
Sheets and Art Bell.

CALIFORNIA UFOs SUBMERGE

SAN DIEGO -- Melvin Podell reports that unidentified submerged
objects (USOs) have been entering and leaving the Pacific Ocean
off the coast at Point Loma. Melvin states, "I have details of a
case in which a number of observers watched as two submerged
objects a few hundred feet offshore emerged from the water and
took off rapidly into the sky."  Bill Hamilton of Skywatch
comments that USOs have also been seen off the Palos Verdes
peninsula for several years.  These glowing objects sometimes
emerge from the water.  Underwater they travel swiftly. Thanks
to Mel Podell. mpodell@juno.com The San Diego UFO Info Homepage
at http://n6rpf.com-us.net and Bill Hamilton skywatch@ltlb.com

MEXICO

MONTERREY -- There has been a large increase sightings over the
last week.  On February 28, 1999, Channel 12 in the city of
Monterrey in Mexico aired home video of six UFOs flying over the
La Husteca section of the city, heading for Las Pampas Mountain.
The video showed six luminous triangular objects flying westward
in formation.  Monterrey is 575 miles north of Mexico City and
95 miles from the Texas border.  Thanks to: UFO Roundup Vol.4
#10, 3/7/99, Joe Trainor Editor.

CANADA

KINGSTON, ONTARIO -- Ray Gavel  reports that on March 2, 1999,
"My son came in the house and said he saw something unusual in
the sky."  The object appeared as bright as a star or even
brighter, with no blinking lights around 6:00 PM. It was going
away from us at an upward angle at a high rate of speed. The
brightness of it diminished as it passed behind a vapor trail
left by a passing jet.  I couldn't tell how high the object was,
just that it passed behind the vapor trail.  My wife  lost sight
of it and when I took my eyes from it, I could not relocate the
object.  The object traveled in a straight line overhead then
vanished.  The object was bright and easily visible. Thanks to:
Ray Gavel rgavel@cgocable.net

UNITED KINGDOM

KNUTSFORD --  We have information from England that the UFO
landing case has been discredited.  Aviation writer Tim Mathews
claims that the British UFO Studies Center (BUFOSC chairman Eric
Morris, along with his group, have foiled a sad and  desperate
attempt by two witnesses to mislead and discredit Eric's and
others research.  A woman calling herself Caroline Sutton phoned
Eric with an incredible sighting. The woman and her partner,
claimed to have seen a series of lights and even gave details
of a landing site.  Eric, being the excellent investigator that
he is took photos and video  footage of the area and members of
his group joined him and started  tracing witnesses.  After some
digging, they found out that Caroline Sutton or "Chas"  is
actually an author who was published in America last year -
turns out  to be a book of scientific hoaxes!  She also seems to
have links with the  "Chicago Academy of Science." The photos
and video footage that Eric  took of the "landing site" will now
be passed onto the authorities to see if the owners of the land
where considerable damage was inflicted, can now press for
criminal damage.  Thanks to Peter Robbins, Tim Matthews and Jim
Rense.

ANTIGRAVITY

UFO buffs, take note: NASA has awarded $600,000 to an Ohio
company to try to reproduce an antigravity experiment reported
several years ago in Physica, a Russian physics journal.  In
that article, a scientist reported that he had managed to get a
spinning, superconducting disc to lose as much as 2 percent of
its weight.  He hypothesized that if this result were due to
some gravity- shielding effect, when expanded and controlled it
might allow a craft to float into space without being launched.
The first NASA-funded attempt to reproduce the experiment
failed, but the company, Superconductive Components, will try
again.  Some physicists think NASA is chasing a will-o'-the-wisp
and wasting a lot of money, but the agency appears to be hedging
its bets: Overcoming gravity would be a weighty accomplishment.
Compiled by Jim Dawson  Copyright 2/24/99  Star Tribune.
http://www2.startribune.com/cgi-Thanks to Stig Agermose.

LIFE ON MARS

BBC News Online Science Editor DR David Whitehouse reports:
"Sensational new claims about life on Mars are about to be made
by US scientists.  Some of the researchers who claimed in 1996
to have found evidence for past life in a Martian meteorite now
say they have further evidence to support their theories.  They
will reveal their findings at a forthcoming conference.  The
announcement will once again arouse great controversy in the
scientific community, which was far from convinced by the 1996
evidence.  Then it was claimed that unusual structures in a
meteorite called AL 84001 looked like fossilized bacteria.  The
new evidence comes from a study of the so-called Nakhla
meteorite that fell at Nakhla, Egypt, in 1911.  Years later, a
detailed analysis of the rock revealed it to be one of only 13
known meteorites from the planet Mars.  It is estimated to be
about 1.37 billion years old and was thrown into space when a
giant asteroid slammed into Mars hundreds of millions of years
ago.  After millions of years in space, it fell to Earth in
1911. Examination of the Nakhla meteorite, using an optical and
a more powerful scanning electron microscope (SEM), by a team
from NASA's Johnson Space Center led by DR David McKay, has
revealed rounded particles of a limited size range. The
researchers suggest that these structures are the mineralized
remnants of bacteria that once lived on Mars.  They say that
their size is similar to bacteria found on Earth.  Looking
closely at the alleged fossilized bacterial colonies, the
scientists say they are reminded of microbes undergoing the
process of division.  One of the structures may even have an
extension like a fibril sometimes seen in Earth bacteria.  They
even go onto to say that they believe the Nakhla meteorite may
have been colonized by two generations of bacteria.  They add
that another of the meteorites from Mars, a rock called
Shergotty, may also contain the bacterial fossils.  For most
scientists, though, curious and minute shapes in meteorites are
not enough to make them believe that bacteria once lived on
Mars. For photos, please visit:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_289000/289214.s
tm  -

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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 12

                  Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:53:55 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:20:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?


>From: Kathy Kasten <KKASTEN@pathology.medsch.ucla.edu>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:54:00 -0800

>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:04:59 -0800
>>From: Judith Dale <judithdale@earthlink.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: [MC] The Pulsing of Richard Hoagland?


Dear People,

First, let me assure all of you that Hoagy is in our prayers for
a speedy recovery. Personally, I am anxious to begin hearing
more chaserai from that quarter, altho I must admit, that Bell
is ringing pretty loudly, despite Richard's temporary absence.

To get back to the subject...I am known never to butt in where I
do not belong. However I must make an exception in this case.
After all, my numerous degrees, while including brain surgery
and heart transplants, do not entitle me to an opinion in this
venue, becuase I do not practice these arts. I study them
because I must learn all I can in order to avoid poisening our
Freshly Made drinkers.

This particular infarct sounds vaguely familiar to those which
have been studied by Freshly Made medical studies.  Most New
York City rats tested with the "Original Dippal" product
complained of a "radiating" sensation around their hearts. This
product never did see the light of day, however we can assure
you that UFO pilots (who, by the way, do not suffer from these
ill-effects) have been known to anesthetise their abductees with
reserve quantities of Original Drippal, as the effects are
similar to those induced by the alien mind control efforts.

In the case of using the Original Drippal however, it takes very
little energy to achieve the same effect. This is why it is
popular with UFO pilots. Saves them lotsa money in their
abduction budgets. Gesundt has it on their very own authority,
that the reason for so many mistakes being made during
abductions is due to poorly trained abductors forgetting to
place drawers, PJ's and various other clothing properly back
onto their owners. In some cases, and I can personally testify
to this, my pajamas (I wear those lovely "shorty" jammies. Hey,
I have great legs, may as well show 'em, eh?) anyway, my jammies
were placed on me backwards and inside out.

Having said that, we here at Gesundt's feel that Richard was
abducted by one of those untrained aliens, dosed heavily with
Original Drippal, and suffered the very same symptoms that our
own NY rat bastards have suffered.

We shall prove our allegations after the 1999 UFO Abduction
Conference in NY City, on the street, outside the event, by
bringing our rats. They can be seen grasping at their chests,
panting heavily, saying something about "radiating" pains and
may be heard mumbling, "More Drippal! Please?"

So please, no more theories on this subject. You've heard
_The Final Answer_ right here. Trust me. I'm Sicilian.






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   Mar > Mar 12

                    Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:46:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:30:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be


>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:00:04 EST
>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

<snip>

>Wouldn't it be nice, just once, for something of this potential
>magnitude to have been treated like an article in any
>legitimate, peer-reviewed science journal: Investigate, then
>announce?

>Everyone directly associated with this thing is now conveniently
>dead and there is a movie afoot. Whooa! The musty smell of $$
>has even wafted its way all the way East to me here along the
>beautiful Susquehanna River.

>If ufology wonders why serious scientists don't often touch this
>subject with a ten foot pole, look no further than how what
>wants to pass for a major UFOlogical Journal has been hoodwinked
>into publicizing what is almost certainly another con.

>Bet me. Giving odds, anyone?


It's interesting to note that Bob Slaughter's book, which is
mentioned in the article, was published in 1996, and is still in
print. This is nearly 70 years after he had allegedly found the
skeleton. Such an unusual find, even in 1929, would have
deserved some sort of comment in a Journal of that time period.

I would hope that the MUFON Journal would have performed some
sort of investigation into the artifact, but perhaps that's more
than I should expect. I don't have the article in front of me
right now, but I seem to recall that it was a newspaper article
that caught someone's attention, who in turn got in touch with
MUFON. "Hoodwinked" is probably too strong a term, IMO. I guess
it depends on whether you think of the used car salesman as an
evil person, or the uncritical customer as a fool.

I have no idea what testing will show with regard to this
skeleton, but this matter should be put to rest as soon as
possible. I think that it's incumbant on the MUFON Journal and
other publications to understand that they have a serious role
to play in this genre. Unlike a popular late night radio program
(who's name I won't mention), we _do_ expect these publications
to be discriminating in what they promote as information.

Steve





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   Mar > Mar 12

              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: PeterBrookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:35:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:11:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed



With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:32:59 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed


>Clifford E. Stone related a similar story about a downed B-52,
>killed American airmen and encounters with alien creatures on
>Jeff Rense's Sightings show for July 31 (about 1 hour 15 minutes
>into this archived show).

>Unlike Ed Fouche, Clifford Stone claimed to have actually been
>there (Cambodia?) himself in 1969 after making a stop at a large
>airfield in Vietnam.  Although Clifford Stone also claims to
>have been present at many UFO crash retrievals, the story he
>told on Jeff Rense's show suggested that this incident with the
>downed B-52 may not have been unique.

>Does anyone have anything to add in support of the reality of
>such stories (apart from the "new" MJ-12 documents)?

Then Clifford Stone has a rare nerve. This tale first surfaced
from Bill English, either in 1982, when he may have told it to
Stan Friedman and members of APRO in New Mexico, or later in the
late 80s, when he put it out on the Internet. English claimed to
have been sent into Laos as part of a Special Forces team to
find and rescue the crew of the B-52. The story bears a strange
resemblance to one that came out of Russia in the early 1960s,
only that was a downed mail plane with no damage, no crew, &c.

With the help of a lot of people, including Don Ecker, I took
Bill English's B-52 tale and his whole "Grudge 13" fantasy to
pieces in "Fortean Times" (approx issues 75 & 76). There is also
a condensed treatment in "UFO: The Government Files". One
notable point to make is that no B-52s had been lost anywhere
when English said he went on his little trip (nudge, nudge, eh,
Don?), and another is that English couldn't have been a Green
Beret when he said he was (he couldn't even remember the number
of his A Team, besides--hhmmm!).

It now sounds as if Stone is elaborating on this piece of
folklore or, to be less charitable about it, bullshit. Some
things refuse to die in ufology.

best wishes
Polenta D. Minestrone
Mixed Blessing






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   Mar > Mar 13

                             NSA's UFO Documents

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:49:00 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:47:46 -0500
Subject: NSA's UFO Documents


Source: The National Security Agency,

http://www.nsa.gov:8080/docs/efoia/released/ufo.html#pgtop

Stig

***

UFO Documents

Index

**

The documents listed on this page were located in response to
the numerous requests received by NSA on the subject of
Unidentified Flying Objects. In 1980, NSA was involved in Civil
Action No. 80-1562, Citizens Against Unidentified Flying Objects
Secrecy v. National Security Agency. Documents related to that
ligitation are marked with *. "XXXXX" has been inserted in a
title if a portion of the title has been deleted prior to
release. To select a document click on the document title, and
wait for the PDF version to be downloaded to your local viewer.
Approximate file sizes are given after each selection for user
convenience.

A software package compliant with PDF 3.0 is required to view
this information. A free software package can be downloaded from
the following web site:

http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html

NOTE: You will exit the NSA site when you activate this link.
The appearance of this hyperlink does not constitute endorsement
by the NSA of this web site or the products or services
contained therein. NSA does not exercise any editorial control
over the information you may find at this location. This link is
provided consistent with the stated purpose of this NSA web
site.


1.* In Camera Affidavit of Eugene F. Yeates - Citizens Against
Unidentified Flying Objects Secrecy v. NSA (Civil Action No.
80-1562), 2.11 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

2.* Communications Intelligence (COMINT) reports [broken into
sizable parts for viewing]

PART A, 1.06 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)
PART B, 0.83 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)
PART C, 0.87 Mb (PDF Format 3.0
PART D, 0.80 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)
PART E, 0.83 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)
PART F, 1.17 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)
PART G, 0.73 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)
PART H, 0.68 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)
PART I, 0.95 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)
PART J, 0.81 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

3.* Affidavit of Eugene F. Yeates - Citizens Against
Unidentified Flying Objects Secrecy v. NSA (Civil Action No.
80-1562), 2.00 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

4."U.F.O. Files: The Untold Story" by Patrick Huyghe, 1.14 Mb
(PDF Format 3.0)

5."Govt.'s Super-Secret Security Agency Warns: Take UFOs
Seriously or Be Prepared for Sneak Invasion by Space Aliens" by
Thomas L. Muldoon, National Enquirer, .34 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

6."The U.S. Government and the Iran Case" - IUR Report, .44 Mb
(PDF Format 3.0)

7."Report of U.F.O. Crash in `47 Called False by Science Panel"
- The New York Times, .39 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

8."What the U.S. Government Knows About Unidentified Flying
Objects" by Peter Gersten, Frontiers of Science, .48 Mb (PDF
Format 3.0)

9."Is the CIA Stonewalling?" by Richard Hall, .47 Mb (PDF Format
3.0)

10."The Government and UFOs", .47 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

11."UFO As Advanced Technology", .47 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

12."French Government UFO Study", .13 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

13.Communications Intelligence (COMINT) report - "XXXXX
Unidentified Flying Objects", .10 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

14.COMNAVSECGRU visual sighting report, .23 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

15."Report Bibliography" issued by the Defense Documentation
Center, .61 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

16."Now You See It, Now You Don't" by Captain Henry S. Shields,
HQ USAFE/INOMP, .43 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

17.Joint Chiefs of Staff report concerning the sighting of a UFO
in Iran on 19 September 1976, .58 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

18.Exploitation Report - A Fragment, Metal Recovered in the
Republic of the Congo, 3.79 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

19.Navy report- Country: Cuba, Subject: UFO, .27 Mb (PDF Format
3.0)

20.Routing and Transmittal Slip from Louis E. Foster, DIA with a
DIA summary sheet and US Defense Attache report on the sighting
of a UFO in Iran on 19 September 1976, .86 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

21.Department of State AIRGRAM - Subject: Flying Saucers Are a
Myth, .76 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

22.Department of State report - Subject: Tunisian Firefall, .29
Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

23.Department of State AIRGRAM - Subject: Celestial Body
Observed over Antarctica, .22 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

24.Department of State AIRGRAM - Subject: Political Report for
August 1965, .20 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

25.Department of State AIRGRAM - Subject: Unidentified Flying
Objects, .23 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

26.Department of State AIRGRAM - Subject: Sighting of Object
Possibly Originating from Space Vehicle, .20 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

27.Department of State AIRGRAM - Subject: Unidentified Flying
Objects, .19 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

28.Department of State AIRGRAM - Subject: Unidentified Flying
Objects Reported Over Angola, .21 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

29.Department of State AIRGRAM - Subject: Report of Unidentified
Object Which Fell Near Municipio of General Teran, N.L., .21 Mb
(PDF Format 3.0)

30.American Embassy Tunis report - Subject: Unidentified Flying
Objects, .07 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

31.Report from Air Force Special Security Office - Subject:
(Unclassified) UFOB NEAC Area, 2.40 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

32.General Accounting Office Report to the Honorable Steven H.
Schiff, House of Representatives - Government Records - Results
of a Search for Records Concerning the 1947 Crash Near Roswell,
New Mexico, 1.94 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

33.* Memorandum and Order - Citizens Against UFO Secrecy v.
National Security Agency (Civil Action No. 80-1562), .19 Mb (PDF
Format 3.0)

34."Communication With Extraterrestrial Intelligence"  by
Lambros D. Callimahos, 1.23 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

35.* "UFO Hypothesis and Survival Questions", .65 Mb (PDF Format
3.0)

36.* "UFO's and the Intelligence Community Blind Spot to
Surprise or Deceptive Data", .63 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

37.Memorandum for the Record - Subject: Information Request
Solicitation, .41 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)

38.United States Air Force Fact Sheet 95-03 - "Unidentified
Flying Objects and Air Force Project Blue Book", .15 Mb (PDF
Format 3.0)

39.Report of Air Force Research Regarding the "Roswell
Incident", 2.77 Mb (PDF Format 3.0)


*Return to FOIA/PA Home Page   *Return to FOIA/PA Released Info
Index   *Top of UFO Index






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   Mar > Mar 13

              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Lawrie Williams <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:10:26 +1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:50:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed


>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:19:39 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>If the USA had devices such as Fouche claims, you can bet they
>wouldn't be casually traveling around willy-nilly for people to
>see, photograph, and provide info to those who would do us ill.

In June 1995 while next to the highway between Alice Springs and
Darwin my sons and I watched an aircraft that I believe was a
white YF-23 pass directly overhead. It was absolutely totally
impossibly silent and at 4 am in the desert that means very
quiet indeed.

My first 10 seconds of reaction were: "Balloon - no - tourist
stunt - no - what the....." and from then on I concentrated on
watching through the binocs as the flashing lights picked out
sections of the fuselage which I identified from "Stealth" a
Time Life Video (No V648-01 ) about a week later.

US Military exercises were in progress at that time in that
region. So ordinary people like us can and do see these
secret aircraf "travelling around willy-nilly".

>People at the cutting edge of physics don't know how to do
>"gravity reduction" or "anti-gravity", yet Fouche would have us

Minus 120 centigrade is achievable and well within the known
range of superconductivity. I have no trouble accepting that a
dense metal vapour at that temperature could do to gravity what
a faraday cage does to electromagnetism.

>believe that some group of people "inside the government" have
>learned this and have made numerous craft based on this
>knowledge, presumably back-engineered from Alien Flying Craft
>(AFC).

The origin of the technology is a separate issue. These aircraft
have been seen and described. A quick search of even my own
pitiful files turns up many cases of BFT's that behave like they
have a human crew rather than in the eccentric manner of genuine
UFOs.

>Do I think AFC are real? Yes.

That is not at issue here either.

>Do I think Uncle Sam (along with some industrial company) has
>understood and applied AFC technology and allowed it to be flown
>around the USA and the world? No.

Well what I saw was definitely not a seagull.

Lawrie Williams

________





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   Mar > Mar 13

                    Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:14:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:55:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be


>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:19:48 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial

>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 04:46:31 -0800
>>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial

>>Fellow Updates members,

>>On Tuesday my new edition of MUFON Journal arrived.
>
>>The cover story describes what may be what we have been hoping
>>for - the skeleton of an extraterrestrial. A paleontologist, the
>>late Dr. Slaughter's discovery of a unique skeleton discovered
>>in Texas. Dr.Slaughter was Professor of paleontology and the
>>director of the Shuler Museum at Southern Methodist University
>>at Dallas, TX. He examined it, casted it and removed it to his
>>lab for analysis. He wrote a technical report describing it as
>>the discovery of a new species of a new genus.
>
>Hi Josh,
>
>"Smoking gun" though it 'may be' it's much wiser to wait until
>_independant_experts_ have performed a thorough analysis. A
>'piece' of the skeleton is currently being checked out at a well
>known University (I don't wish to betray any confidences, I'll
>wait until they post their test results) and (if and when) they
>state that the bones are or are not 'human' (or some other known
>species) it doesn't serve the cause to claim that the bones are
>from an "extraterrestrial." Lord knows that there are enough
>deforming maladies that affect ordinary human beings. ie six
>fingers, four fingers, misshapened heads and other bone/body
>structures. There have also been many cultures that
>intentionally distort body parts for aesthetic reasons. ie;
>Japaneese women binding their feet, Mayans reshaping their
>skulls etc.

>Let's wait until the boys downtown (medical experts) declare it
>to be a genuine anomaly before making a lot of noise about it.
>I'm just as excited as you are at the possibility, but I'm
>willing to wait until the scientific verdict is in before I
>break out the balloons, party hats and noise makers.

>Let's be patient. An answer will be forthcoming shortly. Some
>good people are looking into this thing as we speak. We don't
>have long to wait.

Thanks John, I fully agree with you. I just wanted to announce
it to people who may not know about this. I was using terms such
as may be, if, etc. to not make the point that it is indeed a
proven extraterrestrial. I suppose I got rather excited when I
saw the photographs in the Mufon Journal. I hope I did not put
my 10 1/2 size foot in my mouth. I notice you have now posted a
photograph of an anomolous skull. Was that from the complete
skeleton that Walt Andrus has in his posession?

****** NOTE: I have just received an email from Jimmie L. Holman,
who states that he has been investigating the skeleton and has
a website titled Alien Skeleton: Hoax or History?

www.holman.net/ufo/alienskeleton

I have not checked it out yet as it one of the slowest loading
sites I have seen and I have to run out to the recording studio.
I'll check it tonight. He claims he also has four rolls of film
and hours of recorded information.

I have my own questions. Since Walt claims that Dr. Bob
Slaughter was a noted paleontologist, did Dr. Slaughter publish
his analysis in any peer reviewed publications to notify the
scientific world of his discovery? That would have invited
verification from the world of science. I just tried to call
Walt (at 2pm Pacific Standard time) but got the answering
machine. I have a number of other questions I would like him to
answer. I let my normal guard of objectivity slip because of Dr.
Slaughter's standing in science and I doubted that Walt would
publish a fraud story. Many people have questions and opinions
regarding Walt (remember Gulf Breeze) and the way MUFON is run.
I would hope that he is not perpetrating a fraud, a hoax.

Even though I am degreed in psychology I can not understand the
psychopathology of people who perpetrate hoaxes in this field. I
have been following this research for over thirty years and I
have seen an endless stream of poseurs who, with their delusions
of grandeur, discredited whatever reputations they may have had
and placed an ugly stain on the work and public notice of honest
researchers in this field. Just in the last two days on Updates
we have seen postings regarding Lt.Col. Corso, Ed Fouche (about
whom I posted my criticisms several weeks ago), Richard Hoagland
(may he rapidly regain his health), Billy Meir, Art Bell's
sideshow, and many others. I just can not fathom why some people
can be so disturbed that, for the want of notoriety and a bit of
book publishing and speaking money, they go to a lot of work to
make  themselves look like fools to objective researchers. Sure,
there  are many naive, uncritical people out there waiting to be
had, but hoaxes are pathetic.

It is no wonder that ufology is not taken seriously in many
areas of science and the public. It is as if we are flying a
mission through heavy hoaxer flak in order to discern the truth.

I agree that while this skeleton and its story are very
intriguing let's temper that excitement with objective analysis.
I would like to know who is making an objective, professional
analysis. I will try to call Walt Andrus tomorrow.

Josh





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   Mar > Mar 13

                        Re: The Alleged 'Alien' Skull

From: Christine Sanderson <skygypsy@vegasnet.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:33:43 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:00:26 -0500
Subject: Re: The Alleged 'Alien' Skull


John Velez wrote:

>Subject: The Alleged 'Alien' Skull

>Hi guys,

>I went out and grabbed a gif copy of the skull in question. I
>wanted to check it out for myself. I have attached it as a gif
>file for the list members. Before I comment on it, I want to let
>you know that my buddy Sasquatch (Dennis Stacy) has informed me
>that this artifact is in fact a piece of 'artwork' and not a
>genuine skull at all. He tells me that the artist "Slaughter"
>(may have) used actual bone to create the thing. He also asks me
>what it would mean if he had used "real bone."

Hi John,

Am I not correct in saying that the gif copy of the skull you
were so kind to include in your response to this thread is _not_
the skull from Bob Slaughter's skeleton in question, but the
skull in possession of Lloyd Pye and Mark Bean, who spoke on the
Jeff Rense program a week ago about its origins and the testing
that it is now undergoing?

This gif appeared at the time on Jeff Rense' webpage over the
announcement of their guest appearance, and is also on the Laura
Lee webpage:






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   Mar > Mar 13

                           Re: Meier Case - Redux

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:20:37 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:08:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux


>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 02:31:28 -0800
>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux

>Fellow UpDates members,

>Back in the 1970s I was impressed by the Contact photographs and
>film segments. Since then I have followed the saga of trying to
>interpret the reality of the above. I have been somewhat dubious
>about his Semjase contact. Now people are attempting to
>extrapolate one statement as proof of Billy Meir having revealed
>knowledge in advance of other earthlings.

>My common sense leads me to believe that an alleged alien
>contact with advanced information and a new spirituality would
>be intelligent enough to have knowledge of earthlings' attempts
>to prove UFO events and alien contact. I feel that an alien who
>would choose one earthling to disseminate an important message
>would surely provide readily evident factual proof so that the
>chosen one would not be questioned as to the reality of the
>contact and the disseminated information.

Josh,

My own common sense leads me to the reverse conclusion. But let
me work up to it gradually.

There has to be a good reason why UFOs have allowed themselves
to be sighted hundreds of thousands of times since WWII without
ever hanging around long enough for their existence and reality
to become known definitely to the whole world. The possibility
that this is due to chance is out of the question.

The same for UFO abductions. It is no accident that after all
the thousands of abductions, insufficient evidence has been left
behind that would convince diehard skeptics that the phenomenon
is taking place. It is no accident that screen memories are
used, etc., usually requiring hypno-regression to overcome.

We have to realize that the UFO aliens for the past half century
have had a strategy of presenting themselves to us that would
ensure their presence would not become definitely known as long
as that would be so devastatingly shocking to so many hundreds
of millions of people, and to governments, science and social
institutions. And so the sightings they allow us, and their
contacts with us, are designed to be convincing to those who can
accept the possibility of their presence, but not convincing to
those who would go beserk. The latter, which includes all too
many scientists, are usually supplied with some excuse they can
latch onto (such as a UFO event occurring within a couple hours
of a bright meteor, or insufficient witnesses) for dismissing
it.

The same strategy carries over to genuine contactees. If their
UFO contactors showed themselves to too many other persons, it
could lead to a premature unraveling of the UFO coverup. All
they have to do, then, is to make sure they show themselves to
only their one contactee (or to only an occasional one or two
others). This will ensure that skeptics who cannot accept the
possibility of alien contact do not have to believe it is taking
place, but can instead claim the contactee is inventing his
experiences.

Similarly, if the alien(s) were to supply their contactee with
too much evidence, or with information of too great probative
value, without at the same time feeding in some disinformation,
this could also cause the UFO coverup to unravel prematurely. So
this is what seems to have gone on with the Meier case -- more
of the same strategy.

No doubt part of this strategy is to allow those who can accept
the possibility of the alien presence to be given plenty of time
to try to convince their fellow skeptics who are on the negative
side as to what is taking place. If it can be done by us
presenting past UFO evidence rather than by UFOs landing all
around the world in prominent places some day, the resultant
societal trauma will be minimized.

>The ozone "hole"
>statement is indeed a very slender thread even if shown to be
>true.

Yes, the aliens can get by with dispensing a minimal amount of
truths for that reason. More convincing is the accumulation of
witnesses' reports and/or photo/video evidence.

>Some of you may be believe in personages, events, books, or
>teachings in organized religions or spiritual paths. I am not
>trying to demean anyone having faith in same. Yet when one
>examines what is documented related to the life of Jesus
>(outside of the new testament) as recorded in the Essene scrolls
>(the sect he belonged to = hippies B.C.), one finds ....

The document (ancient scrolls written in Aramaic) that Meier and
an ex-priest friend of his unearthed in Jerusalem in 1963 has
been the item from the case that has interested me more than his
contacts. It (its surviving translation, that is) gives every
evidence of being the real thing, as I've indicated in my
website:

http://www.proaxis.com/~deardorj

If any of you have had a sufficient smattering of New Testament
studies to wonder why so little has survived about why, when,
where and by whom the Gospels were written; why the testimony of
the early church fathers: that they were written in the order of
Matthew, Mark, Luke (and John) with each writer making use of
the preceding gospel, was overturned by 19th-century theologians
in favor of Mark (and Q) priority; why scholars have found so
many indications of editing within the Gospels, etc., you may be
interested in visiting the web site.

Jim Deardorff





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   Mar > Mar 13

                    Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

From: Mark Bean <admin@virtualtheater.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:22:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:14:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be


[Non- Subscriber Post]

To all concerned,

It has been brought to our attention that there appears to be
some confusion regarding an image that was taken from a banner
that I created for the Jeff Rense show. This banner was used to
advertise the Lloyd Pye and Mark Bean, (myself), interview
regarding our investigations of two skulls found. One of these
skulls appears to be very unusual to say the least.

This image that was copied, and then sent out to UFO UpDates
with a message by John Velez. The following is exactly what Mr.
Velez wrote:

Start


"Hi guys,

I went out and grabbed a gif copy of the skull in question. I
wanted to check it out for myself. I have attached it as a gif
file for the list members. Before I comment on it, I want to let
you know that my buddy Sasquatch (Dennis Stacy) has informed me
that this artifact is in fact a piece of 'artwork' and not a
genuine skull at all. He tells me that the artist "Slaughter"
(may have) used actual bone to create the thing. He also asks me
what it would mean if he had used "real bone."

First, if it is a 'creation' then that fact will (hopefully)
very soon be made known to all by those who are currently
examining portions of it. We can then collectively dismiss it
and move on to other business.

Next, if it is composed of "bone" (if it is a 'real skull') then
it _should be_ pretty easy/straightforward for forensic experts
to determine what 'species' it came from. We'll all just have to
wait and see what the experts say.

Assuming:

As for the photo of the thing that I tracked down; if this thing
is a legit archeological artifact (and not a 'creation') then it
is truly unique. I'm no physician but even a cursory examination
by anyone with a High school level knowledge of anatomy can see
that it is an anomalous object. The skull and jaw are all one
piece. There is no joint, no seperate jawbone. The eye sockets
are unusual as well, being oddly placed on the skull. The
overall shape of the skull is very ape-like in spite of the fact
that it is all one piece. (Jaw and skull)

Anywho, I thought you guys would get a kick out of seeing this
thing for yourselves. I will await the analysis results with the
rest of you. In the meantime you can all have fun and check it
out from the comfort of your own home. An amateur detectives
field day!

Enjoy,

John Velez"

End


In order to clarify this completey inaccurate and misleading
letter, we have decided to respond to this immediately before
this issue becomes totally detached from any semblance of
reality.

The skull is real, unaltered in any way. There is no jaw bone
attachment whatsoever. The face is missing from the upper bridge
of the nose to the foramen magnum. The entire skull and eye
sockets are intact. Experts have offered opinions, but cannot
state categorically what it is or is not. All that is currently
known about it will be revealed on the Laura Lee Show, Saturday
night 03/13/99 from 9:00 to 11:00 P.M. Pacific standard time. At
that time a web site will be announced that will provide a full
photographic and written analysis of what is known at this point
of our investigation.

We regret that the unavoidable delays in our collecting of data
have led to so many scurrilous rumors about what might prove to
be such a potentially important artifact.

Respectfully,

Mark Bean & Lloyd Pye

P.S. Make sure that you tune in for the real story right from
the source, only on the Laura Lee Show Saturday night.
http://www.lauralee.com





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   Mar > Mar 13

                       NY Times Brings New Mars Photos

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 02:26:25 GMT
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:20:45 -0500
Subject: NY Times Brings New Mars Photos


Source: "alt.paranet.ufo".

Stig

***

From: skepticaled@webtv.net (E. L.)
Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
Subject: New Mars Photos
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:06:56 -0500 (EST)


Nobody's brought it up so I will. If you haven't seen the new
Mars photos in your local paper get a copy of "The New York
Times", Tuesday, March 9, "Science Times" section, cover. The
article says: "Over the last year, the Mars Global Surveyor
spacecraft has looked down from orbit and snapped hundreds of
pictures of the landscape that are 20 to 40 times as detailed as
anything obtained by previous explorations."

The photos printed in the paper look as good as the photos
returned by Lunar Orbiters. The detail is unbelievable
especially on the photo of Phobos. If you can't see these
photos, wait, they should be on tv soon, although they should
have made the tv news on Tuesday. Anyway, here's hoping that
this kind of resolution is used for the ex-face area to finally
dispel the rest of the cydonia bs.





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   Mar > Mar 13

                            Re: Bell is no Rense

From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:02:59 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:29:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense

>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:54:25 -0500
>To: "UFO UpDates Subscribers":;
>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Bell is no Rense


>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 22:08:48 -0800
>>From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense


>><snip>

>>Just thought I would share something a friend passed along to me.
>>Art Bell was recently on Larry King Live. I was sent the
>>transcript from that program

>>http://cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/9903/05/lkl.00.html
>
>>KING: When you got into this, did you become a believer or a
>>   reporter?

>>BELL: I'm still a reporter.

>>So much for being an entertainer.

>>KING: All right, there's -- you believe that? I mean, I like
>>   James [Praagh], but do you believe him?

>>BELL: You know, that puts me in such a position, because I am
>>   kind of like you are. In other words, I believe what I can
>>   put my hand on, I believe what I can touch, and I'm
>>   skeptical, despite what, you know, some of the publicity
>>   may be about me -- I'm skeptical about almost everything
>>      else.

>>Be sure to look at the other contradictions in the King
>>interview.

>Royce,

>Starting from your quote from the transcript above:

>KING: When you got into this, did you become a believer or a
>      reporter?

>BELL: I'm still a reporter.

>[...]

>And then later Bell changes his job description...

>KING: When you do all you do, and you talk to all the people
>      you always talk to, I know you said earlier that you were
>      a reporter, but do you also become...

>BELL: I'm not a reporter. I'm a talk show host -- difference.

>ebk

The later piece is priceless, it just goes to show what Bell is
all about. Bell, do yourself a favor and don't do anymore live
interviews. LOL Gee, funny how no word has come from Bell yet.
He seemed to be posting and following the discussion day before
so he must know what's being said on this list. Hello? Art, are
you there? LOL! Just ignoring what doesn't suit him...typical
Bellian behavior.

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III





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   Mar > Mar 13

                         Re: Trent and Rouen Images

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:25:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:42:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images


Regarding:

>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:57:13 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images

David Rudiak wrote:

>What exactly is your point here -- that in the process of being
>blown up, the Trent image somehow morphed into the Rouen image?


David,

There wasn't any specific point, as I said at the outset:

Regarding discussions on the 'Rouen' photograph and its
resemblance with the Trent photographs, some time ago I put
together a graphics file which was simply an exercise in
comparing respective images.

As the subject has come up again, I've uploaded the image file
to my Web site and it might be of interest.

What I had set out to consider was how much image manipulation
was required to make a 'Rouen' photograph from the Trent image.

Reaffirming that there's no argument presented with it, the
results of the experiment can be seen at..

[End]


It was, as clarified, merely a speculative exercise.

I later wondered whether the Rouen image was ever intended to be
'different', i.e.:

"If so, perhaps when it had been copied in the 1950s, the
'duplicate' wasn't exact, became slightly stretched and some of
the precise detail wasn't mirrored in the copying process. This
is maybe easier to see in the graphics file".

If, perhaps and maybe..


>>We should also keep in mind that the 'saucer' depicted on the
>>related Trent photograph needs to be 'blown up' before it
>>matches the 'Rouen' image.

>And here's where one suddenly "matches" the other.

Obviously (or so I thought), this means matches the scale. The
Trent 'saucer' is a much smaller image and before any
comparisons with 'Rouen' it needs to be 'blown up'.

As it was already determined that the identically scaled images
are different, I'm not sure why you suddenly thought they were
supposed to match.


>>How many factors, such as the type of equipment, the operators
>>proficiency, etc. might affect the end result?

>You're supposed to tell us. It's your hypothesis.

If you read what was actually said at first, rather then reading
too much into it, there was no hypothesis, simply some 'what if'
questions like the above.


>James, my snotty comments aside, I think your worthy (I mean
>that) side-to- side comparison of the Trent and Rouen images
>make the following major differences quite clear, even on casual
>inspection, at least to those who aren't visually impaired:

[..]

>These variances from the Trent image are glaringly obvious and
>could _not_ be caused by simple variation of an image through
>successive copying.

I had never argued otherwise.

Like I said, there were no arguments at all, merely
contemplations and questions.

As a result of which I had come to the same conclusion, there
are distinct differences in both images and having elementary
examined how to 'morph' one from the other, it's difficult to
see how this could explain the 'Rouen' image.


Really, it was all relatively painless. I wasn't barking at
anyone's 'flying saucer' dogma.



James.





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   Mar > Mar 13

                         Re: Trent and Rouen Images

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:28:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:55:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images


Regarding..

>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:57:13 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images

David Rudiak wrote:

>I just see a lot more handwaving and arguing around the point
>here. Sorry to raise this painful topic, but I remember the same
>sort of vague and slippery Eastonian arguments with regard to
>his pelican explanation for the Kenneth Arnold sighting.


David,

Keeping this separate..

What may be a conceivable explanation for Kenneth Arnold's
sighting, originated as a result of a query I had raised on a
knowledgeable 'birdwatchers' discussion list.

Realising it seemed nobody had ever questioned ornithologists
about Arnold's descriptions of the object's distinctive flight
characteristics, possibly equated with documented observations
of birds, I asked for opinions based on his comments.

These were some of the full responses, previously unpublished, which I
subsequently mentioned extracts from:

Subject: Re: They Came From Outer Space - Or Did They?

James Easton writes, re UFO's:

>On 24 June, 1947, Kenneth Arnold, a successful salesman and
>experienced search and rescue pilot, took off in his small plane from
>Chehalis, Washington en route to Yakima. Close to Mineral, Washington
>and about 25 miles from Mount Rainier, he noticed a formation of 9
>unusual objects flying from north to south.

<snip>

>"They didn't fly like any aircraft I had ever seen before...The
>elevation of the first craft was greater than that of the last. They
>flew in a definite formation but erratically. ...Or maybe it would be
best to describe their flight characteristics as very similar to a
formation of geese,

<snip>

>At the time I did not get the impression that the flashes were emitted
>by them, but rather that it was the sun's reflection from the extremely
>highly polished surface of their wings".

<snip>

>Arnold dismissed geese as an explanation due to the reflective nature
>of the objects and his estimate of their speed and distance.

Arthur C. Clarke recounts in one of his 1960's nonfiction books
(Profiles of the Future'?) a similar sighting of 'skipping
saucers' off the coast of Sri Lanka that (as he knew they would)
turned out to be gulls with sunlight reflecting off the water
onto their underwings where it was alternatively visible and
invisible in a regular pulsating pattern.

This isn't an uncommon sight, either, though it usually requires
a particular set of conditions. First, calm water; second, low
sunrise or sunset angle to the light; third, a slightly
distorting horizon heat- haze sometimes enhances the illusion
but it's not mandatory; fourth, the birds, usually gulls, moving
along the horizon need to be flying just off the water and to be
sufficiently far off that the observer can't make out any
features on them including shape. Seen it a ton of times. and I
expect one could see it at virtually every seaside in the world
where distant gulls fly over brightly-lit water.

So, on to Mr. Arnold's description that started this whole damn
thing about UFOs (part of my misspent youth was spending a few
thousand hours as an amateur astronomer and I never got to see
even one UFO that really baffled me, he grumbled). Given the
location, 25 mi off Mt Rainier's glacial sides, ice would be a
great substitute reflector and would easily blast enough
sunlight back up onto birds' underwings to make them reflect
very brightly. Just look at the excruciating whiteness of the
underwings of an adult white-headed gull such as a Herring or
Glaucous- winged flying over snow on a sunny winter day.

Given the time of year, and that, if Arnold *were* looking at
birds whether or not he knew it, what would they likely be?
Canada Geese come to mind immediately, most other large
waterfowl being in the North, and he mentions geese as a
possibility. But what would Canada geese be doing high up over
Mt Rainier in late June? Heading for a molting lake, probably.
Could they reflect that much light? Certainly, particularly if
over ice. How about gulls? Well, which gulls are likely then?
It's a little ways inland, so Glaucous-winged Gull isn't likely,
but California Gull would be.

The formation's possible: gulls may fly in ragged 'V's, but they
don't necessarily maintain uniformity in the vertical as they
might in the horizontal, and so gulls might fly in the formation
Arnold describes.

There's another possible candidate species in the area at that
time of year (sporadically) whose color, size, flight profile
and proclivity for formation flight at sometimes quite high
altitude would even more produce *every* detail of the
phenomenon which Arnold observed: a flock of non- or
failed-breeder southbound White Pelicans. They'd have been large
enough to visible for a good distance, they fly in formation,
and if the light were reflecting just right off a large nearby
glaciated peak, their comparatively vast white underwing area
would reflect a *ton* of light in exactly the pattern described
by Arnold.

I'd submit that the hypothesis of a small southbound flock of
failed- or non-breeder American White Pelicans observed by
someone unfamiliar with underwing reflectivity would provide the
same phenomena and be at least as good an alternative
possibility than seeing artifacts from another planet.

Darn it.

>Appreciating this is perhaps something of an unusual query to the
>list

And a pleasure to think about. Lots of fun. Thanks, James!

Michael Price
Vancouver BC Canada
[End]


Oh no!  Another myth debunked.  But, you've just gotta believe.

In a message dated 97-11-20 07: Michael Price writes:

<< There's another possible candidate species in the area at
that time of year (sporadically) whose color, size, flight
profile and proclivity for formation flight at sometimes quite
high altitude would even more produce *every* detail of the
phenomenon which Arnold observed: a flock of non- or
failed-breeder southbound White Pelicans. >>

Yikes Michael!  Are we of like minds or what?!  When I first
read the original post from James Easton, White Pelicans was the
first thing that came to mind as I was reflecting back on an
ultra-high flying southbound formation I saw a few years ago
over the Barancas in western Durango, Mexico, east of Mazatlan.
It was a fluke that I detected them at all by unaided eye.  Even
in the bins, I was perplexed about what they were for awhile, at
first not even sure they were birds.  Strange lighting and angle
it was.

I spend more time than just about anyone out exposed and looking
at the sky. Much to my dismay, I've yet to see anything that
couldn't be explained.  I'm taking it personal by now, and am
convinced that I've been singled out and left out. :-/

Richard Rowlett Seattle/Bellevue, WA USA [End]


Michael, my first thought when I started reading your analysis
was white pelican.  Several years ago, when training a good
birder in the finer details of splitting migrating hawks into
species, age, etc at long distances at the beginning of the fall
migration season (i.e. training him to run our count), we saw
distant white "blurps" fading in and out of visibility many
miles north.  This was at the Goshutes, i.e. on the Utah/Nevada
border.  It was near sunset.  It was obvious that the sun was
reflecting on their underwings.  They'd disappear momentarily
and then reappear in sequence.  They were flying east-to-west
and we first spotted them somewhat to the northeast.  I pegged
them as white pelicans almost immediately, as the whole cadence
of the thing matched the way white pelicans will soar in line
(in this case - they'll also "V" up), and rather than flap all
at once, often will each begin to flap as each reaches the
position where the previous bird began to flap.  Same with
turning, etc.  Of course, they'll also do this in more of a
synchronized formation, too, but I'm sure you've all seen white
pelicans flap and glide in the kind of pattern I'm describing.

I couldn't think of any bird that would show such a cadence and
literally twinkle white while switching from soaring to
flapping.

As they continued heading west, of course the northerly
component of their distance from us diminished (i.e. they got
closer :) and the squat battleship like profile of the pelicans
were noticeable.

It was very cool, actually.  Among other things, the trainee
started believing me when I told him a distant accipiter was a
sharpie, not a Coop (or vice-versa).

>I'd submit that the hypothesis of a small southbound flock of failed-
>or non-breeder American White Pelicans observed by someone unfamiliar
>with underwing reflectivity would provide the same phenomena and be at
>least as good an alternative possibility than seeing artefacts from
>another planet.

Having spent a lot of time watching pelicans, I'm convinced they
*are* artefacts from another planet :)

Don Baccus, Portland OR [End]


As another contributor commented, "We'll never know, but it's
fun to speculate".

Well, that depends.

In truth, on this mailing list it actually isn't fun at all to
speculate about anything which even remotely challenges
fundamentalist beliefs.

Paraphrasing Billy Connolly, "It's about as welcome as a fart in
a spacesuit".


It was, of course, Martin Kottmeyer who first suggested that
Kenneth Arnold may have been deceived by, if not geese - "I, at
first, thought they were geese because it flew like geese" -
then perhaps swans.

Martin has reportedly commented:

"James Easton's thought that pelicans might be a better guess
than swans sounds plausible to me at first blush and no
objections come to mind. I guessed swans primarily on the points
that I knew they flew high enough and were larger, whiter,
faster, and rarer than geese. If pelicans match the flight
characteristics better as claimed - cool, I like it.

Give Easton my appreciation for offering the alternative".


Arnold, of course, described the objects flight characteristics,
not their shape, as being reminiscent of a saucer skipping
across water, hence 'flying saucers'.

That so many people then claimed to have seen 'flying saucer'
shaped objects, is, or should be, somewhat disconcerting.


One also notes Arnold's apparent later sighting of some
twenty-five brass-coloured objects when he stated "I was a
little bit shocked and excited when I realized they had the same
flight characteristics of the large objects I had observed on
June 24.. I know they were not ducks because ducks don't fly
that fast."


There were further unpublished opinions I obtained from some of
the world's experts on these birds and they agreed that Arnold's
flight descriptions were remarkably consistent with the bird's
distinctive 'jizz', or signature.

I don't know, they're the experts and I hadn't actually made
that much of it at the time, keeping discussions to this list.


Anyhow, whatever the explanation, I'm grateful you have reminded
me of the knowledgeable ornithologists' observations and what an
interesting news story it is.

I'll now release details to the media and they may find it a
newsworthy item.


Regrettably, except for a couple of other contributions, I'm
unsubscribing from this mailing list and any further wisdom from
Mr Rude-iak will, regrettably, be oblivious.

Spared of perceived 'slippery Eastonian arguments' you can now
concentrate endeavours on all the other snake-oil and 'clean up'
ufology.



James.





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                           Re: New Discussion List

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:49:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:58:42 -0500
Subject: Re: New Discussion List


Whilst UFO UpDates encompasses all that is 'ufology' and
reflects what's happening 'on the street', other related mailing
lists have their own niches, for example the 'Project 1947' list
and those for 'alien abductees/experiencers'.

What seems to be lacking is a list for research and discussions,
where the focus is on evidence, not beliefs, and particularly
where there's an absence of people spoiling for confrontation.

A new, moderated, mailing list intended to meet that niche has
successfully passed the testing stage and is now open for
subscription applications.

It's not a rival to UFO UpDates, or 'Project 1947', etc. being
comprehensively different in many respects.

The focus will be on research, for example, incorporating
absolutely sensational new developments in the 'Bentwaters'
case.

No abusive mail will be allowed. Like, period.


IMPORTANT
This is not a mailing list for 'alien abductions', 'implants',
CSETI, chookie-cadabras, alien mutilated mice, 'MJ-12' advocates
or people marketing the 'Brooklyn bridge' whilst selling ufology
down the river.

No 'channelers', bogus 'Area 51 informants', tales of
reverse-engineered Playstations, and especially anyone who
believes NASA is involved in a 'cover up'.

All of these subjects are hardly short of a forum, for those who
are interested.


If you comprehensively support the list's objectives, agree the
exclusions in no way apply to you and would be interested in a
mailing list focused on scientific evidence, applications should
be forwarded to my e-mail address.



James.





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                  *** Jeff Rense Weekly e-News *** 3-12-99

From: Rense e-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:15:58 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:03:32 -0500
Subject: ***  Jeff Rense Weekly e-News *** 3-12-99


         ***  Jeff Rense Weekly e-News  ***

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                  3-14-99 thru 3-20-99

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                *** From Jeff's Desk ***

Well, as most of you have noticed, this has been another
wild week.  The good news is that Richard Hoagland's
medical condition seems to be vastly improved and the
prognosis for his full and complete recovery is excellent.
We anticipate his return to the airways in the relatively
near future.

This past week's guests were outstanding...with David Icke
(as always)drawing the most email.  His descriptions of the
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about AIDS and the dangers we all face.


                   *** TOP STORIES ***

        Just a few of last week's most intriguing!
                 http://www.sightings.com


    * Phoenix Lights Anniversary Overview From Bill
      Hamilton

    * Breakthrough Gene Therapy Making Old Hearts
      Young Again

    * Oliver's Castle Confession Video To Air On
      Nippon TV

    * Y2K - Banks Not Ready - Nearly 25% Still Have
      Work Ahead

    * Tests Miami Circle Occupied 2,000 Years Ago

    * Food From North Korea's Autumn Harvest Running Out

    * Science Is Warming To The Idea Of Immortality

    * Coneheads And Other Strange Ancient Human Skulls

    * Y2K - Major Failures Expected In 74 Developing
      Nations

    * Entire US Already Within Range of North Korean
      Missiles

    * Deformed Calves, Purple Pigs Dying By 100's,
      Discolored Crops

    * More People Getting Mad Cow/CJD - Scientists
      Stumped As To How

    * Wyoming Sheriff Kicks Feds Out Of His County

    * The Abydos Egypt Temple Glyphs - What Do You
      Think?


Read these fascinating articles and dozens more at
www.sightings.com All stories are saved and archived
in our huge DataPages section

                        ---<+>---

         ** NEW SECONDARY HEADLINES SECTION **

We aim to please! Our Headlines section on the main page
is now divided into two sections, so retiring stories
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                 *** FEATURE ARTICLES ***


Stunning Evidence Of Ancient Egyptian Advanced Technology
By Christopher Dunn

       Note - You can hear Chris Dunn's 1-1-99 remarkable
       interview with Jeff in our RealAudio Archives.

       Egypt. Land of the Pyramids and a vast collection
       of evidence that, like a taciturn teenager, is
       begging for understanding. Contrary to conventional
       thought, for decades there has been an undercurrent
       of speculation that the pyramid builders were more
       advanced. The speculation is well placed. When
       attempts have been made to build pyramids using the
       theorized methods of the ancient Egyptians, they
       have fallen considerably short. The great pyramid
       is 483 feet high and houses 70 ton pieces of granite
       lifted to a level of 175 feet. Theorists have
       struggled with stones weighing up to 2 tons to a
       height of a few feet. One wonders if these were
       attempts to prove that primitive methods are capable
       of building the Egyptian pyramids or the opposite?
       Executing this theory to practice has not revealed
       the theory to be correct. Do we need to revise the
       theory, or will we continue to educate our young
       with erroneous data?

The entire text of this story is at sightings.com
-----

Report Says The More Sex Couples Have-The Younger They Look

       LONDON (AFP) - Couples who have sex at least three
       times a week appear to look more than a decade
       younger than the average adult, who has sex twice
       a week, The Daily Telegraph reported Wednesday.

       Citing a 10-year academic study of 3,500 people aged
       18 to 102 in Britain, Europe and the United States by
       the Royal Edinburgh Hospital in Scotland, the paper
       said 25 percent of looks came from genetics and 75
       percent from behavior.

The entire text of this story is at sightings.com
-----------------

                *** THIS WEEK'S GUESTS ***
                   3-14-99 thru 3-20-99

(Please note Jeff's Guest schedule can change due
to late breaking stories, etc)

SUN 3-14
     Gerald Anderson: Eyewitness To Corona UFO Crash
           Debris And Bodies
            ...did he see living ETs at age five?

MON 3-15
     Don Schmitt And Tom Cary: Roswell 'Smoking Gun'
            Document Found?
            ...the biggest Roswell breakthrough yet?

TUES 3-16
     Dr. Lorraine Day, MD: AIDS: Mass Death Escalating
            ...Dr. Day breaks her 5 year silence on AIDS!

     William Barnes: Reincarnation Of Titanic's Builder?
            ...more regression session tape excerpts

WED 3-17
     Michael Lindemann: Weekly UFO/ET Update

     Skip Goebel: Home Steam Powered Generator Update

     Patrice Karst: God Made Easy!

THU 3-18
     Dr. Louis Turi:  Divine Astrology Readings
             ...in the tradition of Nostradamus

FRI  3-19
     To be announced!

SAT 3-20
     David John Oates Reverse Speech Show.
            The discoverer of RS does reversals live
            on the air!
-------------------

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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                            Alfred's Odd Ode #294

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 07:01:02 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:06:35 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #294


Apology to MW #294 (For March 13, 1999)

It's interesting that Orrin Hatch (that Senator from Utah) has a
message of *concern* for Utah's parents.  If  their children
want environments that are clean and unpolluted -- then their
drug abuse _affliction_ is apparent. If kids are asking
questions where the bigots fear to tread, then they're smoking
marijuana -- popping pills, or so he said. <<<!?!>>>

I bring this up to illustrate an ocean of dementia that's an
obstacle to common sense, discouraged -- in absentia.  This man
won't see a UFO. Its questions are too hard. Oblivious to
evidence, his head is filled with lard. If his answer to his
children is a statement they're on DRUGS, that concern for our
environment makes them junkies, tramps, and THUGS, then UFOs
_are_ fantasy that the devil has imbued to confuse and make us
*sinners* for an anti-Christ to use.

I propose my own philosophy that includes what we might need to
shake some sense from those that bend the truth so hard it
bleeds.  Concern for flying objects goes beyond the colored
light that is teasing and perplexing us, or freezing us with
fright. Not genesis or provenance, or fact interpretation -- not
records pressed and altered for a later validation; it's how we
live our daily lives, how we treat a hapless brother.  Not to
slave for shallow sciences, but used to care for one another.
Time's now spent evolving ways to _foul_ this ship we fly, to
denigrate our sisters, or to covet, cheat and lie. We must cease
this base behavior if we want to gain success -- if we want some
satisfaction, or an end to our distress.

I think we're judged as we betray the members of our race, or
how we treat a stranger -- treated, now, with glad distaste.
This is how a UFO is WRAPPED in social science. We're compelled
to find consensus to _assure_ them our reliance.  We, first and
foremost, respect OURSELVES, and spread respect around. We don't
eschew the indigent to bring the spirit down. To love all life
(to love ourselves!) we give up on the lies that have
complicated consciousness with trappings we'd despise.  Less is
more we would discover as the saucers coast and land! Human
beings decrease their mass, and begin to understand that they've
no _right_ to deprecate a living, breathing planet -- that
profit takes a _back_ seat to our common sense, god damn it!

The money $pent on conflict for ambitions of the few (sure!)
could renovate this planet to conditions grand and new. The
Earth becomes a _garden_ when we give her our respect. She
showers us with bounty for the love that she detects. The
forests that are saved translates to freedoms we can share --
freedoms from disease we face, and freedom from our fear. "Less
is more," provides for _plenty_ as you eat a better food -- not
plugging hearts with HVO, consuming like a boob. The Earth,
robust and healthy, beats mere dollars in the bank, and energy
production is a _snap_ if we were frank. If we conserved, were
frugal, and kept away from senseless waste -- if we displayed
sincerity to the creatures now disgraced; if we could live upon
our Earth -- respect what we'd recovered, then the saucers would
_descend_ to land, and welcome us like brothers!

My philosophy's a triad of the multiverse perceived. It's
matter, mind, or movement, and it lifts you from your knees. The
*matter* is environment, and the *mind* is what we are, and
*movement* is the frequency of TIME between the stars. It's from
Chronos we're observed -- a time so long, in fact, that anything
can happen from the splendid to the crass -- from treating kids
like junkies who are brave enough to ask, to the marvel of free
energy that elitists hide and mask. From rampant sociopathy to
the rules for fairer play, the multiverse can hold it all,
whatever preachers say! From simple, single cellular to god-like
beings of light, from the depths of ancient shadows to a nova
clean and bright, the multiverse embraces, all, with arms of
huge potential; who we _are_ and what we _do_ provides the
_bulk_ of our credentials. It may _seem_ that Orrin Hatch is
doing what he can to elevate our spirit if he makes sure drugs
are damned, but he is _wrong_ to lump concern for matter, mind,
and movement to the mysteries of drugs, their use, and _why_ one
might abuse it.

The UFOs, all by themselves, are _never_ figured out in a dearth
of toleration where we toss our filth about. We're under
observation; you deny it, but it's true. Who we are and what we
want shall all come down to _you_. The *way* is moderation, and
to tolerate new things; and to clean up as we go along is what
the future brings. Respect your mote, and honored beast, but
clean the planet up; sweet providence will spread her arms to
fill your honored cup.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

UFOs will _not_ be addressed in short sighted isolation. To come
to grips with _that_ high strangeness we must have a greater
sociological awareness of ourselves, encourage an efficacious
toleration for necessary differences (presently much too
unappreciated), and finally -- start looking UP! Secondly, an
appreciation for the responsibilities of stewardship, as regards
the ecological meltdown of our planet, is _required_. If we
demonstrated that we had respect for our Earth, and for
ourselves -- any _ufological_ question, I could assuredly bet,
would _neatly_ answer itself!

Restore John Ford!


--
Explore the Alien View!
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
"Unstill Life" -- Animation
. . . and more.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

<Updated 11 March>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.

"Only thin, _very light_ envelopes with a return address will be
accepted <g>." ~~~ $250.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected ~~~

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin

From: Melanie Mecca <natural.state@erols.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:49:59 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:09:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin


>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 02:13:52 -0800
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

<snip>

>This is not the sort of environment I would recommend as the
>birthplace of microbes, let alone higher species leading up to
>the godlike 'Annunaki'.

>With the Sitchin's 12th planet either pulled apart or thrown out
>of the solar system entirely, we have a Valhalla only a mother
>could love.

You can pose that challenge in person at the Baltimore Whole
Life Expo, on Sunday March 21 at the Baltimore Convention
Center.  1-888-999-4531 for tickets or www.wholelife.com.

He's doing a workshop at 1PM and the text states "In this
groundbreaking presentation, Sitchin wil bring to light new
knowledge that was secret - revealed only to initiates and
prophets."

Melanie Mecca






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                  {100} Part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Lloyd Bayliss <lloyd@POWER-AGE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:16:19 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:14:08 -0500
Subject: {100} Part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network

        __  __ _______ ______
------ /  /  //  ____//     /---------------------------------------
 U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  /                              March 1999
     /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K          part 1 Issue 100
--- (_____//__/    (_____/------------------------------------------

The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in over 58 countries.

This issue comes in 4 parts. If any part is missing please mail:
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be
reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject
section e.g.  Repost {100} part 1, part 2 etc.

In this issue:

Editorial
---------
Well who'd have thought it, we've made it to the 100th Issue!
Some exciting prospects in store for the uk.ufo.nw
Our #UFO channel on IRC explained
Special celebratory uk.ufo.nw crossword competition

IRC Guest Log Special!
----------------------
A *very* special IRC guest log section this month, to help celebrate
our 100th issue!


United Kingdom News
-------------------

[UK 1] ET call Earth
[UK 2] For ETs Space Travel Would be an Alien Concept
[UK 3] Sonic Boom is Super Mystery
[UK 4] Space Buffs To Recreate Mars In Canadian Wasteland
[UK 5] Expert says Ireland is newest hotspot for alien spaceships
[UK 6] Okay Zal, you can park your flying saucer here
[UK 7] A Radar Anomaly
[UK 8] Alien Life Forms may be inside Earth
[UK 9] 'Space link' role for Menwith
[UK 10] Odd Sighting in Dorset
[UK 11] UFO sightings 'extraordinary'
[UK 12] UFO Sighting !


World News
----------

[W 1] Astronomers record gamma ray light
[W 2] Latest search for life is Charon, tiny moon orbiting Pluto
[W 3] Marree Man Outline Mystery Deepens
[W 4] Mrs. Clinton, Kids Dream of Mars

And Finally!
------------

Dave's car insurance is up - but he's a naturally suspicious fellow...


Statement, Subscription Information and Stuff
---------------------------------------------

How, where, and maybe even why, to find us - and what to do when you
get there :)

----------===============******************===============----------

Editorial
---------

Hi!  It's me, Lloydy, that's been entrusted with putting this special
100th issue together for you, so any complaints or disagreements you
may have, be sure to mail them to anyone but me :)  Right, on with
the show...

Wow, Issue 100?  That can't be right, surely!

Well, here we are, a long way down the road from where our good
leader Dave Somen started this here E-zine (or mailing list as it was
then known!) all those years ago.  The United Kingdom UFO Mailing List
was born in early 1995 and was orginally setup to cover UFO and related
stories from in and around Great Britain.  Several things have changed
since those early days, the name changed to the UK UFO Network in 1996,
a New York based List Server is now used to distribute the E-zine,
taking at least some of the strain off poor old Dave,  we now have a
dedicated UFO channel on the Chatnet server on IRC (more of which
below), and last but by absolutely no means least, our membership has
grown to well over 1700 subscribers from all corners of the world - 58
countries at the last count to be exact!

Things have certainly moved on around here, over the past couple of
years especially.  We have had some of the most respected and well
known people from the UFO world grace us with their presence as
guests on our IRC channel, and Dave, Crow / Raine and Nessus (among
many others) work relentlessly to secure future apearances by
celebrities from all walks of the UFO field.

The UK UFO NW is though, above all else, a vehicle for the
distribution of UFO related news stories from around the world.
This vehicle would undoubtedly stall and come to a grinding halt
if it weren't for you, our subscribers and readers, sending in
reports from around the globe.  For this, the whole team here at the
UK UFO NW thank you.  Without you, this E-zine and all of it's
related goodies could not survive.  Thank you!

---

As the uk.ufo.nw continues to evolve, many opportunities arise,
some of which seem a little too good to be true, others that may justify
a closer look, and still others that look downright dodgy!  Every now
and then though, something comes along that, in all honesty, seem to
fulfill all three categories!

A little while ago, the uk.ufo.nw was contacted by a gentleman, that
shall remain nameless for the time being, offering among other things,
full access to a well equipped research laboratory and his services,
namely those of a highly qualified scientist.  The idea behind this
would be to test various samples, metalic or otherwise, supposedly
originating from downed UFOs or even so called 'alien implants'.

As you can imagine, this was greeted with more than a little sceptisism
by the uk.ufo.nw team at first.  However, after further talks with the
gentleman concerned, the labs, the qualifications and not least the
offer, stands, at least for now, firm.

The uk.ufo.nw will keep you posted with further developments...

---

It has come to our attention of late, that some visitors to our #UFO
channel on IRC have been voicing unsavoury opinions about getting
ignored after joining the channel.  Dave has issued a statement to
the groups and individuals concerned, so I'll let him explain...

===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===
UK UFO NETWORK STATEMENT

It has come to our notice through postings in the news groups and
mail sent directly to us that a few people are getting annoyed after
joining our UFO IRC channel at various times of the night and day.

It appears that they have tried communicating/talking with people on
the channel only to be met with silence or some strange comments.

I think that I have an answer to this.

In order to keep the channel open 24 hours a day 7 days a week it is
necessary for a number of small programs called 'bots' to appear on
the channel.

To those not in the know they appear to be normal visitors to the
channel, but of course they aren't. They have a very very weak
artificial intelligence which is why you may get a strange response
if you talk to them. It can be quite amusing at times.

They go by the names of:

K9
Alf
Alien

Another reason you may not get an immediate response from someone on
the channel is that they might be doing something else i.e. surfing
the web etc etc and not immediately see you on channel.

I can assure you that you will be made most welcome at any time, and
especially at our meetings every Saturday starting at 11pm UK time.

I hope that this answers any of the queries you may have had.
===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===

Thankyou Dave, for clearing that up so succinctly.

While on the subject of IRC, most of the time, the channel is open
for anyone to speak to anyone else.  On some occasions though, mainly
when we have special guests appearing, the main #UFO channel becomes
moderated.  This means that only certain operators or moderators
have a voice on the channel.  This ensures that the guest is not
bombarded with questions and not left alone long enough to answer
anything in particular.  If you find this is the case, you will normally
find another channel called #UFO2 in operation.  Typing /join #UFO2
will open up a seperate window where you can discuss the evening's guest
(or plot and scheme particularly nasty questions!)

When the #UFO channel is being moderated, the correct way to ask a
question of the guest is to /msg the moderator with your question.  In
other words, to ask  Tim Good if he has ever had an encounter with a
UFO, you would do this :-

/msg raine Mr Good, have you ever had an encounter with a UFO?

This is placed onto the moderator's screen (in this case Raine's),
who then places the question in the queue ready to ask the guest.

The uk.ufo.nw is working on a small guide to using our IRC channel.  You
will be able to request this guide by email or download it from the
usual address as soon as it's ready.

---

Finally, (at last I hear you cry!), to celebrate our 100th issue, we
have a special crossword competition, open only to legitimate
subscribers.  The  winner will win a small (but perfectly formed!) token
of our appreciation.

To enter the competition, you will need to visit the uk.ufo.nw Web site
at

http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/

and follow the 'Competitiion' link.  This will take you to a page that
will explain all.  Alternatavely, you can mail us for an email version
of the crossword and the rules.  Send an email to

ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk

and put COMPETITION as the subject line.

When you send in your answers, make sure you include your email address,
full name and location in the world.  Only people that are on the
subscription list will qualify for a prize - so make sure you're
subscribed!

Ok, on with the show...


IRC Guest Log Special
---------------------

A special IRC treat for you this issue.  Two - yes two! - very
special guest logs for your enjoyment.  The first guest is
Tim Mathews, author of "UFO Revelation" and a controversial figure
in the UFO research world.  Tim appeared on channel on 20 February.

The second guest needs very little or no introduction.  To most
people living in the UK, Tim Good is one of the most well known and
well respected UFO researchers around, and many many people around
the  World would be very happy to agree.  In a special IRC guest
session, Mr Good kindly agreed to answer our questions on Tuesday
23 February.  Tim enjoyed the meeting so much, that he has agreed to
a return visit some time in the future.

Read and enjoy, you lucky, lucky people!

---

Tim Matthews

Special guest on UK.UFO.NW - IRC - #UFO channel

The below text is a log of the United Kingdom UFO Network -IRC-
(internet relay chat) meeting held on Saturday 20th February 1999.
Tim Matthews kindly gave up a few hours of his time to answer
questions from visitors to our dedicated UFO channel.

Names within the < > symbols e.g. <Nesssus> are the nick names of
the person/s asking the questions/s. Where you see <T_Matthew> is
the start of Tim Matthews reply.

Credits:

Our thanks to Sean Jones for setting up the meeting with Tim. Our
thanks to Dave Baker for also mentioning us to Tim. Our thanks to
Sean Jones for moderating the meeting. Our thanks to Phil Light for
sorting out the log. Our thanks also to the many, many people who
joined the channel.

Short - BIOGRAPHY -

Tim Matthews research has been delving into this grey area where some
Nazi war criminal's got off prosecution as long as they helped the
American government to develope these low aspect ratio aircraft with
amazing capabilities.

Tim Matthews book and his talk's are all about the history behind
this conspiracy and the ongoing cover-up of exactly what happened
around this era which was the era of the birth of "Modern Ufology".

During the second world war the Nazi's developed low aspect ratio
aircraft that where frequently mis-identified as UFO's. After the
war several of the Nazi scientist's who where developing these
aircraft where smuggled out of Germany and into the USA. (Operation
Paperclip) In the USA, around Whitesands and Alamogordo army airforce
bases they continued to develope these low aspect ratio aircraft that
looked to all intense and purposes like "flying saucers"

Tim if you would like to introduce yuorself and when you are ready I
will fire away with the questions. Please put TM and the end of your
answers so I know when to give you the next question

<T_Matthew> Ok, Thanks. Well, alot of people will have heard about my
research into Man-Made UFOs and this is now supported through my book
entitled "UFO Revelation" - out NOW!

<CR0W> Tim can you give us your views on the Shefield Incident please?

<T_Matthew> Yes, sure. Having done my own investigation into this, and
checking out the facts about the Police logs I think that there was an
incident where RAF jets broek the sound barrier. No "crash retrieval"
though...

<grumps> What does Tim Matthews think of Bill Cooper?

<T_Matthew> Do we mean William Cooper the darkside conspiracist? If so,
not much. He was recently holed up, in true militia style, somewhere in
the boondocks and I cannot take anything he says very seriously. He has
had an impact on modern Ufological thinking though, that's for sure and
he shares common ground with people like John Lear.

<RavNmaD> Tim whats your opinion of genuine researchers like Matt
Williams pulling hoaxes

<T_Matthew> I know Matthew quite well, he even videod my wedding (!).
I think that he was hoaxing and got caught out. Whether he was in fact
"conducting an experiment" as anyone's guess. Crop circles really
exercise the emotions although I've yet to see any evidence to suggest
that the complicated deigns are more than a clever human art form....

<CR0W> Tim you have a slightly dubious background, some think you are
possibly a gov agent in some way. What say you to this?

<T_Matthew> I knew I.d get asked this. No, I'm not an "agent" of any
sort, not even for the local Littlewoods Pools collection team. People
only want to believe it because it might, in their eyes, discredit the
very effective and detailed research I've undertaken into MMUFOs....

<Tedric> tim, what unexplain ufo sightings do you think really are
UFO'S?

<T_Matthew> Hmmm. I'm not sure there are any really "unexplained" cases
as such. There are intriguing ones but the more one looks for answers -
the role of the researcher - the more one finds sensible solutions. My
research is helping to explain cases like Muroc Field (1947) and
McMinnville and only yesterday I learned that farmer Paul Trent believed
that he'd photographed a secret military aircraft in 1950 - not an
Adamskiite saucer!

<Raine> What got you interested in the whole UFO phenomena and what
moved you so much that you feel that you have to give talks about the
subject?

<T_Matthew> Well, my wife Lynda took me along to a Graham Birdsall
talk in Burnley in March 1995 and we met some people and started a
group. Simple really. I think that my research, for what it's worth,
adds a sense of balance and perhaps a new and factual perspective to
the UFO debate - at least I hope so!

<CR0W> Tim I would like to know your thoughts on the Bentwaters Case,
especially concerning Jim Peniston who claims he actually touched a
pyramid type craft.

<T_Matthew> Yes! This has been a source of some debate within the
ranks of the reformed IUN recently. I was interested to learn that
Steuart Campbell had matched the flashing of the lighthouse with the
flashes on the "Halt Tape". Not a British Roswell and one of the men
sent out to investigate the lights said that there was NO craft - just
lights. Very difficult.

<psientist> if these craft were developed by the nazis, why were they
not used in combat in the second world war?

<T_Matthew> They developed primitive discs - and some radical ideas
for later use - in response to the allied aerial threat. There is no
credible evidence for high-performance Nazi discs although they were
tested at Prague-Kbely airfield from late 1943 onwards. Of course
there were V2s and jet-powered Me262s, not to mention other odd
prototypes captured by the allies...

<RavNmaD> Tim, is your book available through amazon.com?

<T_Matthew> I hope so. Hoepfully you'll order it. The US distributor
is Sterling, New York. Should be on "all good bookshops" by next week.

<fora> has he ever seen an ufo?

<T_Matthew> Have I? Yes, in a manner of speaking. An odd light over
Morecambe Bay and an FT at Warton British Aerospace on the Fylde
coast.

<CR0W> Tim do you know of any cases in the UK where actual alien
material has been recoverd. Do you know of anything that has been
tested in the UK, anything similar to Derrel Simms implants?

<T_Matthew> No. There is a desperate need for a "British Roswell"
although none exists. Leir and Sims are charlatans. Leir is a foot
doctor, that's all. I do not believe that the few anomalous objects are
alien implants. Good science fiction though isn't it....?

<mematt> how does tim think themanmade ufo's fly

<T_Matthew> How do they fly? Not quite sure what you mean but the
early discs were jets, using reheat/afterburners whereas as these days
there is some (a little) evidence to suggest that much more radical
forms of propulsion are under test. Hope that's what you're after.

<SickBoy> Hi Tim. Do you think that ETs have actually visited the
Earth? And if so why :-)

<T_Matthew> No. I certainyl haven't ruled out the possibility of ET
life out there. In fact it's likely. But ETs in discs or triangles?
No way.

<mematt> allso what does he time of so called alien abduction

<T_Matthew> Abduction - an emotive word that barely describes and helps
us understand the compelxity of the close encounter experience. Most
abductions emerge under hypnosis and are pushed by a frankly
ill-equipped and largely ill-trained group of believers in the US
although we have a few regressionists here in the UK. I think that
these experiences are internally generated and not 'alien' related.

<stu7> ...this might seem silly...but has the govt come forward
ever...inviting ufologists to look at anything they might be ready
to release ? :)

<T_Matthew> Hmmm. I know that the late Ken Philips passed case files
on to the govt here. The intelligence agencies were of course
responsible for pushing many an ET myth in the late 70s and early
1980s via Richard Doty and his meetings with Howe and Moore.

<RavNmaD> Tim, considering your opinion of Cooper, what's your opinion
of Lear? and along with that the claims of Lazar?

<T_Matthew> Lear was indeed an excellent pilot but what most people
don't know, and this is covered in my book "UFO Revelation" is that
Lears' dad was involved in the early expts into electrogravitics
systems. One report mentioned in my book and written by the Gravity
Research Group of Knoghtsbridge, London, noted that a disc would be the
most effective craft for use with such radical propulsion systems...
Lazar is not lying about everything. I discovered,

<Max-Burns> Tim, Regarding the sheffield incident can you give us a
reasonable reason why the planes that were alleged to have been
involved in the low level covert exercise which should have been on
the ground at 21.07 were still in the air 50 mins later than booked
and if they were the same planes from the exercise why they will not
admit to causing the sonic booms? would you agree that some black
budget top secret terrestrial craft may have been involved

<T_Matthew> As to Sheffield I think that the MOD was less than
forthcomind and this didn't help matters. Nevertheless, the only
report of a triangle was a misidentification of a passenger airliner
and this is established to my satisfaction.

<mematt> does tim think they are manmade and if so how can they fly so
fast with out hurting the people inside ?

<T_Matthew> Easy really. Speeds have nothing to do with g forces. Even
the g forces in the space shuttle are well within tolerated limits. By
teaching pilots special breathin ex.s and by lying them in a prone
position, as described in some previously TS rated disc documents high
'g' turns are rather less problematic.

<SickBoy> UFOs are often reported to be moving in one direction and
almost instantaneously change direction, do you think MMUFOs have this
capability?

<T_Matthew> Possibly although quite often such reports are not
especially good! We must be very careful not to confuse reports of
anomalous lights with supposed "craft". Remember that Hessdalen showed
that such maneuvers were often reported via a natural source.

<RavNmaD> Tim, do you think that if Lazar's claims are sincere that
they are an extension of the Nazi scientists?

<T_Matthew> It occurs to me that the GRG report noted above describes
an electrogravitics system as one providing 'sharp-edgeded changes of
motion typical in space' with an MM disc.

<fora> whats their(Ufo's) target to come here?

<T_Matthew> As to the Lazar-nazi link. This may be tenuous because much
of the Lazar stuff is false, for instance his claimed qualifications.
There were only a handful of Germans working on discs - the best known
was Dr. Richard Miethe. All information on him remains classified by
the USAF even though we know he worked for them in the postwar and on
Project Y at Wright-Patt in liaison with AVRO-Canada..

<SickBoy> What do you make of Tim Good's newest book 'Alien Bases'? Has
he flipped?

<T_Matthew> Tim Good is a very nice guy, and like me a classical
musician. Nevertheless, his "Alien Base" ws very disappointing esp.
through the promotion on the well-known fake Villa photos. In addition,
there is NO credible evidence that there are any 'alien bases' - just
deep undergroun bases whihc make a great deal of military sense.

<mematt> allso what about the socalled bogys in space

<T_Matthew> The what? Sean_Jbogeys? ice crystals?

<T_Matthew> Oh! Dohh! I think that Kasher is wrong. Re; STS-48. Some
facts. Thunder storm below, rocket boosters disturbing localised area,
all kinds of debris and an out-of-focus camera. Not often mentioned in
the UFO believer camp.

<mematt> tim if these are all "earth" ufo's y the cover up and the
missinformati,on by the us gov?

<T_Matthew> Once you start to lie it's all downhill from there. Many
answers - including the helping hand of the UFO/flying saucer community
penetrated by the CIA in the early 1950s...The Cold War saw a situation
where Soviet discs routinely attempted to penetarte the US DEW (Distant
Early Warning) radar systems. This led to an 'undeclared disc war'
between them both and there were many aircraft whose existence was
directly related to the CW and as yet rem

<EbE> Could you please give me some more information on IUN?

<T_Matthew> Yes! Independent UFO Network is going to replace BUFORA as
the most active UFO research group in the UK and is being relaunched at
our special LUFOS/IUN event in Southport next weekend featuring top
speakers. We feel that in general UFOs are not of alien origin and that
the main sources for sightings are earthlights and secret military
aircraft. There are also cases where an internal trigger leads to
extraordinary experiences and we hope to exa

<Sean_J> Tim please repost the last of that answer

<T_Matthew> Which bit? The extraordinary human experiences are to some
extent close encounters, NDEs and OOBEs whihc are closely related we
suspect. Only by encouraging scientists to help us can we acheive the
necessary breakthroughs in understanding.

<Raine? How long ago did you start your group and how long did it take
you to discover that UFO sightings are military craft? Or was that your
thoughts on the subject in the first place?

<T_Matthew> What I think and what Lancashire UFO Society members think
is not the same thing! Coming from an RAF family I knew that there were
various secret projects but not their UFO links or their variety. The
first reports of FTs under escort by RAF Tornados gave them game away
a little!! Initially I was an unthinking believer who naively felt that
Roswell (for instance) must be right because all the witnesses seemed
to agree on the important points.

<mematt> who is makeing these craft then ?

<T_Matthew> Which ones??!! Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Teledyne-Ryan,
British Aerospace, LTV, Northrop, McDonnell-Douglas. In the past, Bell,
Vought and AVRO.

<SickBoy> You mentioned Stuart Campbell, what do you think of his
mirage hypothesis?

<T_Matthew> Occasionally useful, mainly not. Typical example of one
shoe fitting all...>TM.

<Ariella> What is the most intriqueing case you have researched?

<T_Matthew> Hmmmmm. A 1947 one featured in Hynek's UFO Report. Date
23rd November 1957. Location, middle on nowhere, Nevada. USAF Officer
sees Flying Discs. Near Papoose Lake and Groom Lake.

<Tedric> If a flying saucer landed on the Whitehouse lawn would you
beleive alines are visiting us then?

<T_Matthew> It would depend who got out!!! Even if ET landed tomorrow
it wouldn't alter the fact that the US govt had all the discs from the
start.

<zelplatog> Does Tim beleive the Governments are in contact with
aliens, if so which ones and for what purpose?

<T_Matthew> Certainly not!

<psientist? can I ask what professional 'qualifications, expertise and
technical background' you bring to bear on your subject area?

<T_Matthew> Yes. Apart from having an honours degree from Lancaster
University I have made it my business to ask knowledgeable friends and
family (two RAF Officers, Grandad and Dad) as well as aviation experts
like Bill Rose - who is part of my study group.

<SickBoy> What is an electrogravitics system?

<T_Matthew> Good question and as I note in "UFO Revelation" perhaps
it's too difficult even for scientists!! LoL..A system using an
electrical force experimented upon by TT Brown in the late 1920s with
Paul Biefeld. Checkmout the Bielfeld-Brown effect!!

<mematt> does tim think people can travel at 25,000 mh in a craft and
if so how ?

<T_Matthew> No and there's no credible evidence to suggest that any
sighting of a structured craft relates to such speeds. I fear that UFO
mythology is creeping in here!!

<zelplatog> what is Tims take on the "foo figher" reports from WWII
pilots?

<T_Matthew> A mixed bag on several things including perhaps St. Elmos
Fire, reports from over-anxious crewmen and pilots and possibly a
German device. The latter is not provable even though, if you look,
you find that FFs tended to ascend vertically from Axis held territory.
Only a few reports actually exist and initially these noted the
existence of a new German anti-aircraft device.

<putlog> Tim,what are your thoughts on the shuttle crews reporting
seeing ufos

<T_Matthew> No idea! Could be almost anything if you think about it.
Big problem with the term 'UFO' I think. What do they mean? What do we
mean?

<mematt> what about the disc on the moon ?

<T_Matthew> What - surely you're not serious!!


-[continued in part 2]-






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                  {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Lloyd Bayliss <lloyd@POWER-AGE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:17:49 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:15:36 -0500
Subject: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

        ______ _______ ______
------ /  /  //  ____//     /---------------------------------------
 U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  /                              March 1999
     /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K          Part 2 Issue 100
--- (_____//__/    (_____/------------------------------------------

The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in over 58 countries.


<mematt> are all the people in the world going mad ( alien abduction )?

<T_Matthew> I hope not otherwise we'd all better take out some extra
insurance. Re; abductions I'm afriad that it is true that many
abductees do have mental problems. This is borne out by my own
experience where so-called "experiencers" are often taking strong
medication.

<Assassin> do you really believe there is ufos

<T_Matthew> I believe that there are objects reported a UFOs and
perhaps that's not the same thing. We need, collectively to think very
hard about something that is "unexplained". Perhaps it's true that
nothing remains unexplained with effective research. I'm not sure.

<jez_ufo> Yeah....ask him if he's gonna buy me a pint on Saturday....
it's his round!!

<T_Matthew> OK!!!

<mematt> tim why are there cattle mutilations ?

<T_Matthew> There aren't any done by aliens that's for sure. Who can
say, there are alot of sickos out there!!

<Assassin> and do you really believe that aliens abduct us

<T_Matthew> Nope!

<zelplatog> Do you feel the British are more inclined to accept the
UFO phenomanon due to their history of beliefs in such things as ghosts
and dragons?

<T_Matthew> No but these are not UFO-related as such. Certainly you're
right to emphasize a link between folklore and the paranormal.

<mukker> Okay. Max Burns, under the name 'Alienhype', has been posting,
or rather, reposting, a lengthy allegation that Tim is basically a
right-wing agent for British intelligence. I know he isn't, but I'd
like to hear Tim's rebuttal. For example, is (or was) he Tim Hepple?
And why does Max Burns seem to be gunning for him?

<T_Matthew> I don't take anything that Maxy baby says seriously. Yes,
I changed my name but then so did Cliff Richard and Elton John....
I'm actually an ardent anti-fascist but this has very little to do with
my UFO investigations. In fact, nothing at all when one comes to think
about it.!!

<psientist> sorry to come back to a previous question, tim - a degree
in what?

<T_Matthew> Degree. On, see what you mean. Music and English. Lancaster
University. Dad has engineering degree and all the members of our
research group expertise in various areas including radar, Digital
Signal Processing, satellite technology and avionics.

<SickBoy> Have you ever publicly countered the claims that you work for
the security/intelligence service(s)?

<T_Matthew> Yes! But I'm not wasting my precious time answering
allegations made by deluded and disturbed individuals who enjoy casuing
trouble for other people.

<mukker> Could you also ask Tim if he COMPLETELY rules out the ETH for
any and all sightings, and what are his thoughts about some of the
stunning UFO reports of hundreds , even thousands of years ago?

<T_Matthew> One should never rule out anything - not even the
possibility that Wigan Athlectic FC will get promoted this year! But
possibility is not the same as actuality.

<RavNmaD> Tim, there was a large disc(some estimated 25 miles in
diameter) recorded by some Japanese astronomers a few years ago. What
do you make of that?

<T_Matthew> Nothing and how did they record this?

<Assassin> ask him this if you don't believe then why are there
thousands of ppl claiming they have been ubducted by aliens

<T_Matthew> There are not thousands of people - just a bunch of
well-paid story tellers and believers telling you this. These
"thousands" emerged via a Roper Poll commissioned for the 1992 MIT
Conference. It's a new religion. If all these things are happening then
why does nobody ever see, photograph or film these abductions and why
do they tend to emerge only through hypnosis - a technique knows and
proved to implant false memorries..?

<^Darren> Tim, fair commment about the things Max Burns has posted but
they are re-postings of stuff that's appeared elsewhere and it alleges
your connections with British Intelligence which means that you could
be publishing disinformation. Your comments??

<T_Matthew> Rubbish. Ufologists, well some of them, like to believe
that they're more important than they really are and pretend that
there's some grand conspiracy. MY research is ALL based upon facts and
documents as you will discover in "UFO Revelation" - my new book.

<Max-> Q...Tim is it not true that your real name is Tim Matthews and
that tim hepple was your alias as announced at your wedding?

<T_Matthew> What nonsense! I'm going to keel over with laughter ina
moment. My wife thinks that's very funny and wonders what this has to
do with research into MMUFOs??!!

<zelplatog> What do you think the Fatima sighting by thousands was
early in this century?

<T_Matthew> Very interesting and I have read about it although I
haven't come to a conclusions I'm afaid. Sorry!

<Max-> why were you using an alias if you were not undercover?

<T_Matthew> There is no alias! Dear oh dear - and Ufologists wonder
why they aren't taken more seriously...

<putlog> Q what are your thoughts on the mass sightings and videos in
mexico?

<T_Matthew> Interesting and almost certainly the majority of the better
sightings relate to earthlights. Had you notice that the best sightings
occur around Mount Pope and within the Volcanic Zone? On the new
Hesemann video there is even footage of a UFO filmed DURING an
eruption. Food for thought I reckon!!

<mukker> 'Nuther question: Has Tim heard about the supposed GEOS-8 and
9 satellite photos of '400-mile wide UFOs'? His thoughts?

<T_Matthew> Don't think anything about these - total myth.

<Sean_J> Tim I only have two more questions and they are from Max
Burns, querying your "name". Would you like to call it an evening?

<T_Matthew> If Max wants to make a bigger fool of himself than usual
then that's up to him!!

<Max-> Will you produce your birth certificate to confirm what you
origianl first name was?

<T_Matthew> No, because it is nothing to do with anyone except myself
and entirely unrelated to UFO research. Max, you really are very sad -
as is your alias "Terminator2001" via whihc you make some libelous
claims!

<Sean_J> Tim thank you very much for being our special guest here
tonight, it was very interestin. I hope you will visit here again.
You certainly answered a lot of questions for people.

<T_Matthew> Don't you mean special agent! Sorry about the typos - no
sp, checker I'm afraid. Check out "UFO Revelation" and mail me;
matthews@zetnet.co.uk

<Sean_ k> ppl you can all thank Tim now

<T_Matthew> NO probs..Does anyone want to carry on?

<CR0W> Tim whats the hottest case at the moment whats new that you are
aware of ?

<T_Matthew> At the moment? Gosh. There's lots of new FOIA stuff out at
the moment but it takes agens to trawl through. The Pentagon said in
'95 that it didn't have many docs relating to MMUFOs and now we have
1,100!!

<mukker> Message for all; I met and interviewed Tim a couple of years
ago. A couple of articles (Sunday Mirror, Sightings mag) resulted. My
first ever published article is about the rise of the fundamentalist
religious right in the USA, in the Sept. 94 Company mag. I KNOW Tim
isn't a closet Nazi. Mark McA

<RavNmaD> tim, what made you decide to start investigating?

<T_Matthew> Don't know, accident I suppose and certainly not design.
I've always had an enquring mind.

<mukker> Tim, re. MJ-12... If it's true Truman used a pantograph, that
does remove (or cast serious doubt on) the 'lifted' signature.

<T_Matthew> The signtaure is not where you should look for proof. For
a start there is NO provenance for the first set of MJ-12 docs as
Robert Todd has shown. The one (sinlge) doc supporting MJ-12 was put
there deliberately and not by the US government!

<SickBoy> You spoke a lot of sense tonight Mr Matthews! If you are an
agent, the gov are spending tax payers money on the right folk :-)

<SickBoy> have you corresponded with Steuart C?

<T_Matthew> Only via email. ,S

<SickBoy> do you want to say any more?

<T_Matthew> Carl Sagan was a genius and everyone should read his
"Demon-Haunted World".

<SickBoy> Tim: have you heard about the Russian claims that spinning
superconducting discs 'weigh' less?

<T_Matthew> Yes, I assume you refer to the Tampere University-type
expts...Very interesting although there is a debate on either side,
esp in the USA,

<CR0W> don't forget Tim Good will be here tuesday night 6:30pm GMT

<CR0W> Tim what ufologist do u most respect ?

<T_Matthew> Good question CROW!! Ummmmmmmm...........Perhaps Robert
Todd...

<CR0W> what reason

<T_Matthew> Because he has single-handedly taken on elements of the
Roswell story (ie; Marcel's various claims) and demolished the whole
MJ-12 edifice. MJ-12 is the BS that holds much of the believer camp
together..

<JeroenW> Tim, have you researched the M-12 stuff, ultimately coming
to the conclusion that its all rubbish?

<T_Matthew> Yes, I've got all the documents (well nearly all) and spent
a great deal of time looking into them and asking people all the
difficult questions. To me the thing starts off with a lie; "On 24th
June 1947....Kenneth Arnold saw 9 flying discs". No he didn't. There
are hundreds of mistakes that I noticed when I trawled through the
original batch last week.

<CR0W> Tim regarding max burns and your identity it would be easy to
disproove all the rumour or do you like the secret agent tag?

<T_Matthew> No and no really. Secret agent? On dear! As I noted at
around 11.30 I changed my name in 1992 for personal reasons and all
my friends knew about it. What's the big deal. It's all been discussed
and there is no attempt to mislead anyone here??!!

<psientist> have you any more books you are working on, and intend to
publish, tim

<T_Matthew> yes, I'm working on two but for various reasons I'd prefer
not to say muich beyond the fact that one of them is entirely given
over to flying discs and the other a much more general effort.

<CR0W> Tim what do u know about DI.55

<T_Matthew> Not a lot. They moved the baby up to West Freugh a while
ago although they test radar models of the Future Air Offensive
Systems expt models at 2am....

<T_Matthew> DI55 is part of the Defence Intelligence set-up and their
involvement with the UFO subject is intriguin given their role as
defenders of th realm. I susoect that both they and their partners
within DSTI have been testing and evaluating US prototypes aircrat
mistaken as UFOs for decades...

<mukker> Tim's opinion on Corso?

<T_Matthew> Once a spook always a spook? A book of charming yet unproven
fantasy. Oddly enough Victorian, (Dr. Henry Orhcid) did a good review of
the real Corso.

:log end:


---

Timothy Good

Special guest on UK.UFO.NW - IRC - #UFO channel

The below text is a log of the United Kingdom UFO Network -IRC-
(internet relay chat) meeting held on Tuesday 23rd February 1999.
Timothy Good kindly gave up a few hours of his time to answer
questions from visitors to our dedicated UFO channel.

Names within the < > symbols e.g. <Nesssus> are the nick names of
the person/s asking the questions/s. Where you see <Tim_Good> is
the start of Timothy Good's reply.

Credits:

Our thanks to Sean Jones for setting up the meeting with Tim.
Our thanks to Crow & Raine for moderating the meeting.
Our thanks also to the many, many people who joined the channel.

Short - BIOGRAPHY -

Timothy Good is one of the premier UFO researchers in the world. He
has been a UFO researcher for over twenty years and during that time
has uncovered research which he feels proves the existence of UFOs
and more importantly that the Earth is being visited regularly by
extra terrestrials. His research suggests that there is a worldwide
cover- up of UFO's perpetrated by the intelligence communities of
virtually every government on Earth. Mr Good has created the most
comprehensive research on the UFO phenomena by tracing reports all
the way back to the early 1930's.

Timothy Good is a respected British broadcaster and lecturer. He is
a professional violinist for the London Symphony Orchestra and was
elected to the Royal Society of Musicians in 1980.

Mr. Good has written a large number of books on the UFO phenomena:

The UFO Report
Alien Update
Alien Contact: Top-Secret UFO Files Revealed
Alien Liaison: The Ultimate Secret
Above Top Secret-The Worldwide UFO Cover-Up
Beyond Top Secret
Alien Base (his latest book now available in paper back)

---

<Raine> Hello everyone and welcome to #UFO. I would also like to
welcome Timothy Good and thank him for making this meeting possible
by giving up some of his very valuable spare time. Tim can I ask
that when you have finished typing your answers that you please type
TG at the end of the text, so I know you are ready for the next
question, thank you.

<Raine> Tim do you have anything that you would like to add to that,
or tell us of anything new you are investigating/researching/writing
at the moment.

<Tim_Good> Only that I have been a researcher since 1961.TG

<Raine> <CR0W> Tim in your book you mention that you have seen an
alien, can you elaborate on that?

<CR0W> Please /msg Raine with your questions for Mr. Timothy Good.
#ufo2 is open for unmoderated chat.

<Tim_Good> This is complicated. I had two experiences - both in the
USA - in 1963 and 1967, which led me to believe I communicated with
human-type aliens based here. But it's lengthy. However, these
experiences can be read in my latest book ALIEN BASE, which
incidentally will be available in the USA, published by Avon, in
August.TG

<Raine> <stu7> how many copies did his big first book sell ?

<Tim_Good> I honestly don't know how many copies of ABOVE TOP SECRET
have been sold worldwide.TG

<Raine> <Raine> What was it that got you interested in the whole ufo
phenomena?

<Tim_Good> In 1955 an American cousin - Edmund C. Berkeley, who
edited the first magazine on computers, I believe - gave me a copy
of Major Donald Keyhoe's book THE FLYING SAUCERS ARE REAL, because
he knew of my passion for aircraft and spacecraft.TG

<Raine> <forgiette> Have you ever seen a UFO, if so what did it look
like?

<Tim_Good> I have seen several UFOs in my life, though most have
turned out to be conventional objects. The first, in August 1963,
looked like a tetrahedron-shaped craft at great altitude (viewed
thru binox) but according to Spanish research it was a French
radiosonde balloon, capable of maintaining position at great
altitudes. The last object I saw - on 15 Dec 1980 - is still
unexplained. Unfortunately, I saw it for only a few minutes on my way
home to my apartment.TG

<Raine> <grumps> What does Tim Good think of Tim Matthews?

<Tim_Good> I don't. TG

<Raine> <CR0W> Tim what really happend at Bentwaters/Rendelsham
Forest? Do you believe that Jim Peniston really touched a pyramid
type craft?

<Tim_Good> I tend to believe Jim Peniston, yes.TG

<Raine> <Raine> Have you personally ever had any threats to try and
stop you from researching the ufo phenomena?

<Tim_Good> No, I have not - apart from a few from ufolgists! However,
I have been hampered in my research efforts in the United States on
several occasions - hotel rooms broken into and airline tickets and
other research-related info stolen.TG

<Raine> <Carnado> Mr. Good, what inspired you most to enter the field
of ufology?

<Tim_Good> The works of Maj. Donald Keyhoe and Capt.Edward Ruppelt.TG

<Raine> <stu7> TGood: I enjoyed your first (?) book..the thick one :)
That was some years ago... how has the ufo scene changed since you
wrote that ?

<Tim_Good> In ways too numerous to go into here.TG

<Raine> <Carnado> What case do you think is the most overlooked case
in ufology?

<Tim_Good> No one case - there are numerous cases that have been
overlooked.TG

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> Welcome Mr Good. How long on average does it take
you to compile a new book and get it to press?

<Tim_Good> It depends. ABOVE TOP SECRET took about 10 years, the
sequel which replaced it, BEYOND TOP SECRET, 2 years, the others
several years. TG

<Raine> <Carnado> What's your opinion on Derell Sims and his implants?

<Tim_Good> We need more peer-reviewed work by qualified medical
experts.TG

<Raine> <Clive_P> Hello Tim it's a pleasure to speak with you; I
enjoyed Alien Liasion in '91 which introduced me to the UFO subject.
Please can you tell us have you spoken with Bob Lazar recently, and
do you now totally discount his "ufo work" as Stanton F. did?

<Tim_Good> I have not spoken to Bob Lazar for many years. He has lied
about his credentials, that is for sure, and he has a very dubious
background. But I do not discount the possibility that he may have
been exposed to some of the alleged reverse-engineering at Papoose
Lake.TG

<Raine> <rickymd> What are your current views about the Aurora and
Bob Lazars story?

<CR0W> Please /msg Raine with your questions for Mr. Timothy Good.
#ufo2 is open for unmoderated chat.

<Tim_Good> I assume you mean Lazar's description of what he believed
was the Aurora at Dreamland?TG

<Raine> <Carnado> Mr. Good, you and your work inspired many peolpe,
me included, to join the intersting field of UFOs, what do you think
future generations will think of your work and our interest. Will we
be called freaks, or pioneers?

<Tim_Good> Pioneers, hopefully.TG

<Raine> <grumps> "Tim: What is your current view on abductions? ET,
military, or 'other'?"

<Tim_Good> That's complicated. I believe many abduction stories
originate in the minds of the abductees, but some people HAVE been
abducted by actual ETs, in my view. There is a possibility that
certain elements of the US military may be involved in some
abductions to a certain extent - just as I believe they may be
involved to a degree in the animal mutilations. I have spent a lot
of time researching the latter in Puerto Rico, and I have spoken to
one witness who...

<Tim_Good> ...saw a cow being picked up by a beam from a craft.after
which he was approached by US federal agents (or similar) who were
monitoring the operation. They asked him to stay put for 15 mins.
Later he saw the mutilated cow beside the road, apparently having been
dumped from the air. All this in ALIEN BASE.TG

<Raine> <rickymd> yes I was refering to Lazar's descriptions of the
Aurora.

<Tim_Good> Don't know.TG

<Raine> <forgiette> mr. good....have you mapped out any particular
bodies of water on earth that are a possible ufo underwater base...

<Raine> <forgiette> if you have, could you let us know which spots...

<CR0W> Please /msg Raine with your questions for Mr. Timothy Good.
#ufo2 is open for unmoderated chat.

<Tim_Good> Not personally, but in ALIEN BASE I list several areas
around the planet, including undersea locations, where it is alleged
there are such bases.TG

<Raine> <vita2> do you have any knowlege of where they came from
(galaxy?)

<Tim_Good> If we are to believe what they tell abductees and
contactees, they come from various other solar systems, mostly in our
galaxy, and they have established bases in our solar system,
including Earth.TG

<Raine> <Carnado> What do you think of crop-circles?

<Tim_Good> Not much.TG

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> It seems everyone these days has an Internet
account and not just ufologists. Not being on the Internet has
obviously not hindered you in any way. Do you see the Internet as a
good thing or bad thing for ufology?

<Tim_Good> Both.

<Tim_Good> Both.TG

<Raine> <Alan_Bean> I would to know what Tim thinks of Ancient alien
ruins on the Moon and Mars and/or what goes on at Pine Gap Australia :)

<Tim_Good> I've written a lot about Pine Gap in ALIEN BASE - I believe
there could well be an ET base there. As to ancient ruins on the Moon
and Mars, this is not my area of expertise, but I believe we will
eventually find traces of former colonies on both the Moon and Mars -
this according to info. given to some of the more reliable contactees.
TG

<Raine> <Spanky> Can I ask does he believe the MOD is competant enough
to be involved in a cover up?

<Tim_Good> It depends which branch. Certainly things can be covered
up.TG

<Raine> <ben> what's the most convincing evidence you have come
across which supports the ET theory?

<Tim_Good> The many people I have spoken to from all walks of life
(e.g. Air Marshal Sir Peter Horsley, former equerry to HM The Queen
and Prince Philip for 7 years as well as being deputy chief of
Strike Command) who claim to have had lengthy meetings with ETs.Plus
my own experiences.TG

<Raine> <forgiette> mr good.... in your research have you ever heard
of person mentioning that they saw a large grey's face, (only the
face) come out of thin air and appear right up in front of a person's
face for a few moments...this happened to me several months ago, and
i was wondering what you think it could have been, if you have heard
of this sort of thing...

<Tim_Good> I've heard of this sort of thing.TG

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> Most people probably don't know that you are an
accomplished violinist for the London Symphony Orchestra. This has no
doubt taken you around the world. How have your musical colleague's
reacted to your 'other' job & has either job ever got in the way of
the other.

<Tim_Good> I was in the LSO for 14 years, as well as other symphony
orchestras, and certainly this was a bonus for my UFO research when
we toured the planet. But I have been involved in session work (pops,
film scores, commercials) since 1978, though increasingly less. Most
colleagues think I'm fairly sane. The two jobs have indeed conflicted
on many occasions!TG

<Raine> <Clive_P> Mr Good, I'm half-way through your excellent book
Alien Base; I was wondering if you have any Booksignings lined up in
the London area over the coming weeks? Thanks for the info!

<Tim_Good> Unfortunately no, these finished last week, but signed
copies are available in a nu,mber of London stores, inc. Harrods,
Selfridges, and some branches of Ottakars, Waterstones, etc. in
central London.TG

<Raine> <^Shadow^> what do you think is going on? mind control by the
govt.?, the urantia book idea? whats your take on it all?

<Tim_Good> Don't know much about Urantia, and Govnt. mind control I
doubt.TG

<Raine> <I-Knight> Tim, there seems to have been a big increase in
the number of daylight sightings of UFO's in recent years (e.g. wave
of sightings over Mexico City). Do you think that the human race is
being gradually conditioned to an acceptance of the idea that alien
life-forms exist and do you think that these sightings are possibly a
prelude to more open contact in the future?

<Tim_Good> Possibly, though I would question the intelligence of any
alien race seeking OPEN contact on this planet. They don't need
that - they can get what or who they want. As to Mexico, there may
well be something going on there connected with ET concerns about
earthquakes, but I find most of the video footage unconvincing.TG

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> In your investigations for new material for new
books, do you find that now you are well known you still have to do a
lot of leg work or do more and more people now come to you with
information.

<Tim_Good> People do approach me, but most of my time is spent on
leg work, mostly in other countries. It may interest some of you that
I spend many thousands of pounds on such research - I've already spent
25K on research for my next book.TG

<Raine> <Clive_P> Mr Good, does it surprise you, (or what exactly ARE
your thoughts) that there are a great number of people (especially
journalists) who will always dismiss the UFO sunject as "ballyhoo",
when researches like yourself have proven Aliens exist, beyond
reasonable doubt for many years now?

<Tim_Good> Journalists - and especially editors - don't like to look
silly. Most of them are ignorant about the facts, anyway. But it can
be frustrating. They'll only believe it when ET lands on the White
House lawn or in Hyde Park.TG

<Raine> <Carnado> Mr. Good is the conspiracy to keep ufos secret
worldwide controlled by US, or are the other countries just cheating
on us?

<Tim_Good> I would say that the US is in the forefront of controlling
and manipulating the information, though some other countries do the
same. Yet other countries havn't much of a clue as to what's going on.TG

-[continued in part 3]-







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                  {100} Part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Lloyd Bayliss <lloyd@POWER-AGE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:22:42 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:19:11 -0500
Subject: {100} Part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network

        ______ _______ ______
------ /  /  //  ____//     /---------------------------------------
 U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  /                              March 1999
     /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K          Part 3 Issue 100
--- (_____//__/    (_____/------------------------------------------

The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in over 58 countries.


<Raine> <forgiette> mr. good...what is your input on the beings living
among us now...

<Tim_Good> I've no idea what's happening now, but I do believe that
several species are still based here.TG

<Raine> <Clive_P> Mr Good, will 'Cosmic Journey' ever really happen?
I saw some brief footage on T.V. (ITV) in the programme you worked on.
I am wondering if "nothing" happens in 2000AD, and there is no "cosmic
shock of great importance" (which I sadly believe there won't be),
that publicly, Cosmic Journey would have been "the Story of the
Millennia". On the other hand, as Cosmic Journey had a lot to do with
Bob Oeshsler (a close friend of Bob Lazar?!) do you

<Tim_Good> There won't be any cosmic shock in 2000, I agree. As for
Bob Oechsler, to my regret I learned that he has lied about several of
his claims. The Inman tape story is absolutely on the level (I helped
set that up) but the stories of his visit to the Pentagon where he was
shown photos of Ets (supposedly by Lt. Gen.Tom Stafford, with whom I
discussed this) and the trip to a microgravity chamber and the NORAD
base, etc., I now believe to be bullshit.TG

<Raine> <grumps> Is there an alien base in Canada to your knowledge?
Shilo? Camp Roberts? Lake Ontario?

<Tim_Good> Not to my knowledge, but I wouldn't be at all surprised.TG

<Raine> <forgiette> mr. good...i am dyslexic, therefore i don't take
the time to read books, would you by chance have audio books or plan
to in the future for millions of ppl like me <smile>

<Tim_Good> I know that ABOVE TOP SECRET is available on tape in the US.
Do contact William Morrow, the publishers.TG

<Raine> <Carnado> Your oppinion an the Ancient Astronaut theories, do
you think earth has been visited for thousands of years?

<Tim_Good> Yes, it has. But I leave all that to others - there are
hundreds of books on this theme.TG

<Raine> <CR0W> Hey, wait a minute! didn't you devote much of your
earlier books to crop circle stuff and now you say you dont think much
on them, what changed ?

<Tim_Good> I commissioned and edited articles on crop circles written
by others, in the UFO REPORT series, and ALIEN UPDATE.TG

<Raine> <forgiette> mr good...do you have a fear of a void knowing that
in our life time, we'll never know the full extent of the ufo/abduction
scene...

<Tim_Good> Not a fear, but a resignation!TG

<Raine> <Jumba> Why do you think that governments are hiding
information about UFOs?

<Tim_Good> Fear of over-reaction by the public, media, etc.; ignorance
themselves as to what exactly is going on; the need to keep secret
alien-related technology which could be used for weaponry; the
recation of the religious authorities; acute embarrassment at what is
perceived as a loss of control. etc,etc.TG

<Raine> <^Shadow^> is there an underwater base near Hawaii?

<Tim_Good> I am told there is an underwater base in the Pacific.TG

<Raine> <vita> what happend to old speed-of-light theory (speed limit!)?

<Tim_Good> There are all sorts of theories. As to aliens, they say
they can shrink space and time (dimensions) - or spacetime as Einstein
dubbed it.TG

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> You must have a vast archive of information that
you have collected over the years. How do you store it all? Are you
methodical with the way you store information?

<Tim_Good> Yes to the first part of your question, not always to the
second.TG

<Raine> <Neuro> Mr. Good, congratulations for all your mind-opening
work. Question: your opinion on the lack of follow-up on the Belgian
wave (end-eighties) and the recent sightings of "triangles in France,
near Belgium?

<Tim_Good> What lack of follow-up on the Belgian wave? Plenty of
research was done. The so-called FTs are being seen here in the UK as
well as France - the latest FT, as far as I'm aware, occurred in
Derbyshire in January, according to Omar Fowler.TG

<Raine> <Clive_P> Tim, are you friends with Nick Pope?

<Tim_Good> Very much so.TG

<Raine> <^sonnet> ask him if he still believes the majestic 12 doc's
are real ?and why?

<Tim_Good> I didn't think he did believe they are real. I'll ask him
anyway.TG

<Raine> <Carnado> Do you think ther has been a technology-transfer in
the past (Corso-claims)?

<Tim_Good> Yes I do, though there are some egregious exaggerations in
his book (not helped by co-author William Birnes).TG

<Raine> <Clive_P> Mr Good, - re the ITV programme - the footage of the
"Russian UFO" was *highly* intriguing. Any news about commercial apps
of anti-grav? (i.e. EG&G projects?) Thanks Timothy.

<Tim_Good> I am sure that we're quite a way off commercial application
but it will happen.TG

<Raine> <stu7> Are you working on any breaking ufo cases at this time ?

<Tim_Good> Yes.TG

<Raine> <forgiette> mr. good...can the beings clone us if you know or
heard this could happen, i am not referring to hybrids

<Tim_Good> I expect they could if they wanted to.TG

<Raine> <Raine> Are you planning to come down to Cornwall for the
total eclipse of the sun this August, do you think we could have a
wave of ufo sightings just like in Mexico?

<Tim_Good> I doubt it.TG

<Raine> <Clive_P> Mr Good, what's the meaning of life? What I mean is,
has your research enlightened you spiritually in any big way? For me
at least, your books are probably my "bible" :)

<Tim_Good> Thank you for this question. Yes, my research has
enlightened me spiritually - in some instances.TG

<Raine> <^sonnet> what do you think about the MIB theory

<Tim_Good> They exist. There are 2 important and I believe reliable
cases in ALIEN BASE, one reported by the American contactee Caroll Wayne
Watts in Texas and another by Carlos de los Santos Montiel, a young
Mexican pilot, in Mexico.TG

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> With regard to the Majestic documents is Tim aware
and if so what does he think of the new MJ docs currently being
investigated by Stanton Friedman and others.

<Tim_Good> I'm not convinced by the majority of them, particularly
since the so-called MJ 1st Annual Report is identical in typeface and
style to a couple of letters to me from Timothy Cooper in 1991.TG

<Raine> <^sonnet> what do you think about the american computers
statement on the transponder-capacitor coming from alien tech in
roswell....

<Tim_Good> Don't know whether to trust it. BEWARE THE INTERNET! TG

<Raine> <forgiette> mr. good...i have this inner feeling that the
beings were here before we evolved...did you find this to have some
truth during your reasearching...

<Tim_Good> Yes - though not necessarily here. But evolved before us,
absolutely.TG

<CR0W> Tim on behalf of everyone here we say a extra special thankyou
for taking the time to join us tonight. May we wish you all the very
best in the future. Keep up the good work!!!

<CR0W> We will now go back into unmoderated mode now and bid you
farewell.

*** K9 sets mode: -m

<grumps> thanks Tim

<Carnado> Mr. Good, thank you very much for your patience and also for
your work! You should get an award for your lifework!

<Raine> Tim what a pleasure it was to have you on channel and answer our
questions, THANK YOU!!

<Toaster> thanks Tim

<^sonnet> thanks tim

<stu7> wow...what a meeting...thanks a lot TG

<rickymd> thanks for the talk tim, it was very interesting.

<Neuro> TG: I speak for everyone here in saying that your work is more
than valuable, even on a personal level. Thanks again

<Tim_Good> gotta go ppl

<Raine> thanks again Tim, BYE

<Neuro> Ciao Tim

<rickymd> Bye Tim.

<Dave_UFO> Thank you for taking the time and trouble to be with us Tim.
We have been hoping we could get you online for a long long time.


----------===============******************===============----------

United Kingdom News
===================

[UK 1]******

Source: BBC News
Publish Date: 30th January 1999
From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang)

ET call Earth

by David Whitehouse

In a few weeks' time mankind will send out its first detailed radio
message into the cosmos, asking any aliens who may receive it to get in
touch. It is part of a commercial project called Encounter 2001. This
company based in Houston, USA, is offering the public the chance to send
their own message into space for $30. Not everyone thinks it is a good
idea.

According the scientists involved in listening for intelligent signals
from outer space, called Seti (Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence), sending a message out into space is almost certainly a
fruitless exercise. Dr Frank Stootman of Seti Australia, says that it is
not a message to aliens but to us. He adds that a reply is very unlikely
and certainly not within our lifetime. And, if an answer does come, it
will not be in English.

Chan Tysor of Encounter 2001 counters this. "It's a statement, sending
something of yourself away from the Earth to travel in space forever.
Whether it gets picked up by aliens or not many people are excited by
it."

The message Before the individual messages are broadcast an encrypted
signal, based on logic and maths, will be sent. Dr Yrvan Dutil, a
scientist working for the Canadian Government, is helping to design the
cosmic message. He points out that the only other signal deliberately
sent into space in 1974 was aimed at a group of stars that were unlikely
to have planets. Because this signal is aimed at a handful of stars like
our Sun he says that "for practical purposes this will be our first
detailed interstellar transmission."

He is still working on the message, to be transmitted into space
sometime in April by the Evpatoria radio telescope in the Ukraine. The
message will consist of a series of pages and will be repeated three
times over a period of three hours. The signal will be 100,000 times
stronger than a TV broadcast.

Don't listen, talk Listening for radio signals from alien life in space
is not new. There have been about 70 attempts over the past 40 years. So
far no signals have been detected. But transmitting a message into space
has been tried only once.

In 1974, the Arecibo radio telescope sent a brief three-minute message
towards the distant M13 stellar cluster. It consisted of 1,679 pulses.
When arranged into a matrix, they became an image showing atoms,
molecules, our solar system and a representation of a human. But the
cosmic message being contemplated this time will be much longer, 400,000
bits.

Starting with basic symbols it will use logic to describe numbers and
geometry. It then goes on to introduce concepts such as atoms, planets
and even DNA. It has been constructed to minimize the loss of
information due to noise introduced into the signal during its
interstellar journey.

"If any aliens ever intercept this message they will have mastered
science so much of the first part of the message, the part that deals
with numbers and atoms, will be familiar to them", says Dr Dutil. "They
can then go on and deduce a few things about humans such as where we
live, how big we are and how many there are of us." However, he does
have some reservations about sending the message. "I'm not comfortable
about sending something in space without a social debate."

Aimed at the stars The message is aimed at stars from 51 to 71
light-years from Earth. They are all similar to our own Sun. They lie in
a region of the sky called the Summer Triangle. As well as the encrypted
message there will be a series of greetings written by the general
public. Anyone can sign up to send up to 30 words for $30.

According to Chan Tysor, things people have put on their cosmic message
include their hopes for a more peaceful future for mankind and other
races in space. One person said that we have made a mess of our planet
so asked aliens to put off a visit for another 100,000 years. Mr Tysor
said that the signal was a kind of monument, "It is a kind of
immortality knowing that something you wrote is beaming its way out of
the solar system into the galaxy."

Questionable science Many scientists do not think that broadcasting
messages to the stars is a good idea. Among them are many members of the
Setileague, a body that organises amateur searches for intelligent
signals from space using small radio dishes.

"Great entertainment, but questionable science," said its executive
director Dr H Paul Shuch. It would be fun to beam personal greetings
into space, Mr Shuch concedes, but like a message in a bottle, the
prospects for successful contact are rather slim."

Carol Oliver of Seti Australia says that while she has reservations
about the message being sent into space she hopes that it will inspire
many to take an interest in Seti. She adds that soon, because of a Seti
Australia initiative, hundreds of thousands of Australian schoolchildren
will be studying the search for life in space as part of a project to
help them find out about the universe and themselves.

But Dr Dutil is worried that the Encounter 2001 message will set a
precedent, "After us zillions of people will try to send a message into
space." Just imagine he says, "a weirdo group could send what they want
into space and this may put humanity into trouble in the far future."
---

[UK 2]******

Source: The Guardian / London
Publish Date: 28th January 1999
From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang)

For ETs Space Travel Would be an Alien Concept

by Robert Matthews

So now we know: the reason aliens do not exist is because they get
zapped by gamma rays before they have the chance to arrive here on
Earth. That, in a nutshell, is what an American astrophysicist was
claiming last week in the latest attempt to bring a modicum of science
to the otherwise lamentable level of debate over the reality, or
otherwise, of UFOs.

According to Dr James Annis of the Fermi National Accelerator
Laboratory, Illinois, the reason aliens have not got here yet is that
our galaxy has only recently given space-faring life the chance to
thrive.

Until just a few hundred million years ago, says Dr Annis, our galaxy
was being regularly zapped by so-called gamma-ray bursters: collisions
between dead stars and black holes that release vast quantities of
sterilising radiation. Only now are these collisions rare enough for
alien life to emerge and travel decent distances from their home planet.

Dr Annis hopes that his theory, described last week in New Scientist,
will resolve one of the most famous arguments over the existence of
alien life, known as the Fermi Paradox. Named after the Italian Nobel-
Prizewinning physicist Enrico Fermi who purportedly came up with it in
the Fifties, it boils down to the question: if aliens do exist, where
are they?

It is a question that draws significance from two facts about our
galaxy: it is very old - 10 billion years or thereabouts - and about
100,000 light-years across. Thus even if aliens only manage to travel
through space at one-thousandth the speed of light, they could still
have got across the galaxy in around 100 million years - far less than
the age of the universe. So where are they?

Apparently Fermi took this as proof that aliens do not exist. Now Dr
Annis claims to have found a loophole in this logic: aliens may well
exist - but only recently have they been granted enough time between
gamma ray bursts to get anywhere.

Yet you do not have to be a Nobel Prizewinner to see that Fermi's
proof-by-absence always had more holes in it than a ton of Gruyere. For
a start, it presumes that all aliens would insist on declaring their
presence the moment they arrive. What if they do not? Certainly one can
see why both benign and malevolent aliens might want to keep a low
profile. And of course, believers in UFOs can resolve Fermi's Paradox
very simply: aliens are here already.

All of which makes one ponder the greatest mystery in this whole debate:
just why is the standard of argument over aliens so dismally poor? It is
not that scientists are afraid to tackle bizarre questions. Ask why,
say, giants cannot exist, or the Loch Ness monster is imaginary, and you
can expect to receive perfectly sound, scientific arguments.

The distinguished British geneticist J. B. S Haldane sorted out the
former in an essay entitled On Being the Right Size written in the
Twenties. He pointed out that a creature 10 times the height of a human
- the size of Giant Pope or Giant Pagan in Pilgrim's Progress, for
example - would have, pro rata, 1,000 times the weight. This colossal
load would, in turn, generate crushing pressures 10 times higher than
those borne by human leg-bones. "As the human thighbone breaks under
about 10 times the human weight," Haldane observed, "Pope and Pagan
would have broken their thighs every time they took a step."

As for the Loch Ness monster, the key problem is that it is not
sufficient to have just one Loch Ness monster: there has to be a viable
breeding colony. The lack of sufficient food in the loch - and the sheer
paucity of sightings - all count heavily against the reality of Nessie.

Admittedly, these are not knock-out arguments: perhaps giants evolved
tougher bones for their legs, and maybe Nessie is the last of a
long-living breed of dinosaurs. But by the dismal standards of
"Ufology", they have all the authority of a Euclidean proof.

If anyone does know of a knock-out argument why aliens cannot have
visited the Earth, I would be most glad to hear it. I ask not out of any
desire to have my own belief in the reality of UFOs vindicated (as it
happens, I have no views either way), but merely out of frustration at
the large slabs of tripe wheeled out by scientists whenever the question
arises.

As things stand, I find it hard to avoid concluding that scientists are
keener to save face among their peers than to give the issue of alien
visitations the consideration it deserves.
---

[UK 3]******

Source: Newszap / Delaware
Publish Date: 6th January 1999
From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang)

by Brian K. Ford

Sonic Boom is Super Mystery

No one knows cause of disturbance that occurred last week

DOVER - So what was it? No one is quite sure what caused the sonic boom
that shook the Kent County area on Jan. 8. An aircraft of an unknown
origin shot through the sky at supersonic speeds, causing walls to shake
and and widows to rattle. Numerous phone calls flooded local police
offices demanding answers.

According to First Lt. Dave Westover, spokesman for the Dover Air Force
Base,''Nearby air stations and bases have been contacted in regards to
the aircraft, where it came from and why it was flying so low, but no
one wants to take responsibility for the aircraft.'' The State News has
received several calls from citizens who are still concerned about the
incident. Some people believe that there may be a connection between the
U.S. Navy's Blue Angels aerial demonstration team who visited the Dover
Air Force Base a day earlier and the boom.

''We're not sure what it was, but it wasn't one of our C-5s,'' said
Airman First Class C. Todd Lopez of 436th Airlift Wing Public Affairs.
''The Blue Angels left on the same day they arrived, between 3:30 and 5
p.m.''

The noise happened around 6:45 p.m.

''There are only two places I believe that aircraft could have come
from, the Paxuent Naval Air Station in Maryland or the D.C. National
Guard at Andrews Air Force Base, said Tom Mcknight, department chair of
Airway Science at Delaware State University. ''They are the only two
places that I know of that house aircraft capable of breaking the sound
barrier. Normally, they do this over water or high altitudes. I don't
think the military wants to say much about the issue.''

Lt. Westover said there were other possibilities as well.

''There are several military installations, such as Langley Air Force
Base and Atlantic City Air National Guard Station in New Jersey, in the
area that routinely fly throughout the region. We are still looking into
the matter,'' Lt. Westover said.
---

[UK 4]******

Source: Reuters
Publish Date: Wednesday 13th January 1999
From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang)

Space Buffs To Recreate Mars In Canadian Wasteland

LONDON (Reuters) - The U.S. space agency NASA launched the second of two
unmanned missions to search for water on Mars over the weekend but other
space buffs hope to do their research altogether closer to home.

The Mars Society, an international group of space enthusiasts, is
planning to build a simulated Mars station on Canada's barren Devon
Island, the New Scientist magazine reported Wednesday.

The island bears a close resemblance to the red planet. It is cold and
dry, covered in rocky ridges, valleys and craters.

``It has as many similarities to Mars as you are likely to find anywhere
on earth,'' Robert Zubrin, founder of the society said.

But, the magazine said, it differs in one obvious and crucial respect --
the atmosphere on Mars is a hundred times thinner.

Zubrin intends to complete the Mars Arctic Research Station by the
middle of 2000 at a cost of about $1.0 million.

It will simulate the self-contained environment that life on Mars would
entail and will allow scientists and engineers to test equipment that
would be needed to survive on the planet.
---

[UK 5]******
Source: The Boston Herald
Publish Date: 11th January 1999
From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang)

by Jim Dee

Expert says Ireland is newest hotspot for alien spaceships

DUBLIN, Ireland - Last year, 4,230,000 visitors descended on the
Emerald Isle - Land of a Thousand Welcomes - from the four corners of
the Earth to sample Ireland's legendary hospitality.

Others - possibly from a galaxy far, far, away - hovered in the sky
above without ever landing, according to self-taught UFO expert Eamon
Ansbro.

Ansbro, 48, a former engineer and meteorologist, has spent much of the
past decade trying to perfect a system of predicting when and where
alien spacecraft will arrive.

Attention agents Mulder and Scully: Hop a flight to Ireland. Ansbro
is convinced UFOs will be hovering above Dublin at 5 a.m. Jan. 30.
And in February, he promised, they'll return to one of their favorite
haunts, the tiny town of Boyle, County Rosscommon. It's ``a UFO
hotspot,'' he said.

Ansbro can't explain exactly why Ireland is a preferred extraterrestrial
destination, but says possible reasons range from the nation's political
neutrality to its Druidic past. After all, in a country renowned for its
`Forty Shades of Green' and a multitude of leprechauns, little green men
from outer space might fit in nicely.

And then there's Irish hospitality.

``The one thing about the Irish is that they're open to the new,''
Ansbro said. ``Ireland isn't going to send up some fleet of F-16s and
blast UFOs out - which has been done, apparently, by the Americans''
in the 1950s.

Ansbro has frequently been profiled in Irish newspapers and featured
on British and Irish TV and Irish radio in the last year. He claimed he
has identified ``an automated surveillance'' of Earth, regularly
conducted by ``a large craft, say at 80 to 90 thousand feet, that
somehow is camouflaged.'' The craft periodically ejects UFOs to orbit
and scan the Earth below, he believes.

Ansbro thinks alien craft use Ireland's abundant stone-age rock
monuments, known as Megalithic tombs, as ``vortexial energy points'' -
navigational beacons - to maintain their bearings.

He produces a map he and a fellow member of his group Program for
Extraterrestrial Intelligence Project drew up, outlining common alien
touring routes around Earth. Eighty percent of them pass over Megalithic
tombs.
---

[UK 6]******

Source: Sunday Mail / Scotland
Publish Date: 10th January 1999
From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang)

Okay Zal, you can park your flying saucer here

A town renowned as a magnet for UFOs could offer parking for ET and his
pals. A Glasgow academic has come up with the bright idea of offering a
landing beacon to help extra-terrestrial visitors park their ships. And
he reckons it could lead to an invasion of UFO capital Bonnybridge . by
tourists and by flying saucers.

Post-gradute architect Yan Tung Li, from Strathclyde University,
believes a huge luminous or flashing tower could have double benefits
for the town. He says tourists would flood the area to view the beacon
and ET crews might decide to beam down from flying saucers.

Mr Li said yesterday: "I intend to develop proposals for a beacon or
tower structure and a landing site for UFOs. As a secondary development,
a science fiction park will provide education, recreation and related
facilities for the public and enthusiasts. The primary intention is to
promote science through science fiction."

Mr Li admitted he would need advice from UFO experts before he could
present final plans. He also wants expert discussions on how any
visiting aliens should be approached.

Falkirk councillor Billy Buchanan first put Bonnybridge, Stirlingshire,
on the intergalactic map when he claimed it was the ET capital of the
world. He said he was approached by more than 3,000 people with
sightings during the early 1990s and convened a conference in Falkirk
Town Hall to discuss the matter. He was taunted in the streets when a
local myth claimed an alien called Zalus visited his office for a cuppa.

Top UFO spotters yesterday said they were surprised Mr Li had chosen the
town. Billy Devlin, boss of paranormal trackers Strange Phenomena
Investigations in Linlithgow, said: "In 1996 and 1997, there were
several hundred UFO sightings in six months. But Bonnybridge is quiet
now."

Jim Allan, of the West of Scotland UFO Society, added: "Everything has
shifted towards Ayrshire and the west coast. I think Bonnybridge was
extremely over-rated."
---

-[continued in part 4]-






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                  {100} Part 4 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Lloyd Bayliss <lloyd@POWER-AGE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:27:14 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:24:07 -0500
Subject: {100} Part 4 - United Kingdom UFO Network

        ______ _______ ______
------ /  /  //  ____//     /---------------------------------------
 U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  /                              March 1999
     /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K          Part 4 Issue 100
--- (_____//__/    (_____/------------------------------------------

The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in over 58 countries.


[UK 7]******

From: Name & e-mail address supplied
Report Date: Monday 12th October 1998

A Radar Anomaly

Pete (pseudonym) is a keen scanner user with a long time interest
in aviation. He is ex RAF living near to RAF Northolt and Heathrow
airport. A major helicopter route in and out of London is also
nearby. Peter told uk.ufo.nw that he tends to leave his scanner on
monitoring various civil and military frequencies while he 'potters'
around the house. He said "You get to hear some very interesting
things from time to time."

Peter reports:

At approximately 12.15 on Monday 12th October, the Bovingdon
sector of London Air Traffic Control Centre acquired a target, on
primary radar, on or very close to major air routes into and out of
the London area. The target, there was no transponder signal, was
at an indicated height of 10,800 feet and it moved very little, if at
all. To my certain knowledge the captains of at least six aircraft, both
inbound and outbound, were asked to look for and report the origin
of the target. At least one passed less than one nautical mile from
the object's observed position, and no more than one thousand feet
above it. There was broken cloud at lower altitudes, but nothing at
that height. Each captain reported that nothing could be seen in the
area, and at least one stated "If there's anything there I would see
it". LATCC (London Air Traffic Control Centre) attempted to contact
the target by radio on the distress frequency of 121.500 mHz at
12.32, but got no response.

Eventually the controllers decided that there was nothing there, at
least that's what they told the aircraft they were controlling. That was
at 12.38.

Maybe not an actual UFO report, but its an anomaly and interesting -
at least I think so! :-)
---

[UK 8]******

Source: Sunday Times
Publish Date: 22nd November 1998
From: Roger Pate <r.pate@pindar.co.uk>

Alien Life Forms may be inside Earth

Author: Steve Farrar, Science Correspondent

LIFE FORMS so alien that scientists may simply not have recognised
evidence of their existence could inhabit the Earth, according to a
leading scientist.

Dr Tom Gold, emeritus professor of astronomy at Cornell University in
America, believes that organisms based on silicon - completely unrelated
to all the carbon-based life man has encountered so far - may live at
great depths.

In a forthcoming book he will suggest that scientists should take the
possibility more seriously.  Gold, who is a member of the Royal Society,
previously predicted that vast amounts of more conventional bacteria
live miles down within the Earth's crust.  Scientists initially
dismissed the idea, but many now agree with him.

"So long as nobody suspects there could be silicon-based life, we may
just not be clever enough to identify it", he said last week.

Rocks bearing signs of silicon-based organisms may already be sitting in
laboratories, he believes, with their signicance overlooked.

Every known living organism, from bacteria to mankind, is based on the
chemistry of carbon, which froms the complex molecules such as DNA that
are central to our existence.  Scientists believe that if
extraterrestrial life is found, the chances are that it, too, will be
carbon-based.

Silicon has many chemical similarities to carbon, prompting scholars and
science fiction writers to dream up new life forms.  Huge "space slugs"
that can swallow space ships appear in the film The Empire Strikes Back;
in an episode of Star Trek a rock-like alien attacked Captain Kirk's
crew; and killer parasites based on silicon surfaced in the X-Files when
scientists explored the interior of a volcano.

Gold's life forms, if they exist, would most likely be micro-organisms
capable of withstanding enormous pressures and temperatures, living in
time pores inside rock deep within the Earth's crust.  They could draw
energy from dissolved gases and surrounding minerals.

Gold's ideas, which centre on an alternative explanation for oil and
mineral deposits, will be published in his book, The Deep Hot Biosphere,
in January.

"It is speculative but logical that there could be a large biochemical
system very deep down which works better at high temperatures and
pressures" he said.

Others are sceptical.  Dr Harold Klein, who headed the Viking lander
project team that searched for signs of life on Mars in the 1970's,
pinted out that silicon was far inferior to carbon at forming the
complex polymers crucial for life.

"I personally doubt the idea of silicon-based life.  If we do find
organisms far down inside the Earth, I'd bet they'd be carbon-based", he
said.

Nevertheless, he urges future missions to Mars to carry an instrument to
test for non-carbon-based organisms - just in case.

It is possible that the chemistry of silicon is altered sufficiently by
the great temperatures and pressures deep in the Earth to make it more
suited to forming complex molecules, according to David Noever, a
research scientist at Nasa's new Astrobiology Institute.

He said some scientists at the American space agency were treating the
idea of silicon-based organisms seriously, particularly with a view to
searching for extraterrestrial life.

"It's almost naive to assume all life must be carbon-based; I could
possibly make good cases for life based on both silicon and phosphorus",
he said.

Silicon is used by some carbon-based single-cell organisms called
diatoms to form protective shells, according to Dr David williams, a
diatom researcher at th Natural History Museum in London.  But diatoms
are still fundamentally carbon-based.

However, bizarre organisms have been found in recent years deep in the
Earth's crust.  Steve Jones, professor of genetics at University College
London, said; "There's an unknown universe down there that has already
produced organisms with metabolisms so strage that, by comparison, man
and mushrooms are almost identical, so God knows what else they'll
find".

Microbes have been found living on the ocean floor at depths and
temperatures where life was previously thought unsustainable.

Without knowing what silicon-based life forms might be like, said Dr
Harry Elderfield, an earth scientist at Cambridge University, it is
almost impossible to predict how scientists could even test for them.

Yet Gold has been described by Stephen Jay Gould, president of the
American Association for the Advancement of Science, as one of the most
iconoclastic scientists - but one who is often right.
---

[UK 9]******

Source: Nidderdale Herald [Yorkshire, England]
Publish Date: 20th November 1998
From: "gerry" <ed@farshore.force9.co.uk>

'Space link' role for Menwith

THE US communications base at RAF Menwith Hill will be at the
forefront of a system which provides early warnings of ballistic
missile launches anywhere on earth.

Two new radomes - the prominent golf balls - are to be built on the
site, having a direct link with American infra-red eyes in space.

Armed Forces Minister Mr Doug Henderson said the work will begin in
November 1999 and is due to be completed in February 2000.

However, the move has brought criticism from the Menwith Hill peace
campaigners who say the base has now been moved to "a totally
different level."

A spokeswoman for the protest group said: "We are appalled and
outraged, but it is not a surprise. It was a major target as a
command and communication centre, but its new role makes it even more
important.

"This is another huge reason why Menwith Hill should not be here and
why at the very least it should be accountable."

A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence confirmed that the infra-red
tracking project will go ahead and should be operational by the
millennium.
---
[UK 10]******

From: "Peter Laurie" <peter@abbotsbury.co.uk>
Sighting Date: 7th November 1998
Sighting Location: Abbotsbury in Dorset, roughly  50 deg 40 min N, 2
deg 40 min W, at 6pm GMT 7

Saw an odd satellite recently. About 6pm, clear night, passing
through Cassiopaea, a *line* of lights. The line was quite straight
and had 4/5 evenly spaced lights with a last one about half the
distance. While we watched the lights faded and went out, presumably
because the thing dipped into the earth's shadow while we watched. It
was moving at the sort of speed one associates with visible
satellites.

Since we were standing in about 50 North and the time was 1hr 40 min
after sunset it was possible to calculate that the thing was about
200 miles high. Two of the stars of the central triangle of
Cassiopaea point north and the thing was travelling just to the west
of this line. These stars are 4 deg 24 min apart (measured by plastic
sextant) and the length of the thing was about 1/4 - 1/2 the distance
between them (hard to tell exactly because it was moving so fast).
This implies that the line was 2 - 4 miles long. Which seems quite a
big satellite.

The height and polar orbit make it look like a recconnaissance
device. Maybe (as Ben suggests) the length is because it is a
synthetic aperture radar. With a length of miles, it ought to resolve
peanuts!

Any ideas what it was?
---

[UK 11]
Source: North Devon Journal
Publish Date: November 20 1998
From: "gerry" <ed@farshore.force9.co.uk>

UFO sightings 'extraordinary'

A NORTH DEVON man could have had an "encounter of the second kind"
when he witnessed strange flashing lights in the sky, an expert
believes.

Father and son Paul and Lee Holloway, of Rose Court, Bradworthy,
spotted the lights in the Monday [Nov 16] morning sky while driving
towards Bideford at about 6.35am.

"I saw something flashing in the sky like an aeroplane," Lee said.
"It moved from one direction to the other, we kept on driving then
from behind there was a massive flash of light, right across the
whole sky."

"On the left hand side flashing lights came on and off, there was
nothing there, then they were back to a different place then the
other, swapping positions," Lee added.

He compared the flash to lightning, but said it was several times
brighter, and lasted five or six seconds. From being behind their car
the lights went directly over them before disappearing. British UFO
Research Association regional investigator Doug Cooper described this as
a UFO sighting and added: "Lee is bordering on the classic encounter
kind of experience. "It's an encounter of the second kind -- an object -
- rather than alien beings." But Lee was not the only one to see
something strange in the sky that morning. Pauline Smith witnessed a
phenomenon while driving along the North Devon link road between South
Molton and Tiverton. "I was driving up the link road at about 6.15am and
it lasted for about half an hour. I saw two objects in the sky, about
5,000ft up. "They were equidistant from the moon and I think they had
identical flashing lights. They were both lined up with each other.
"They disappeared and came back. I think I saw one of them drop
vertically but I couldn't swear to it. Then one of them threw out a beam
of light," she said. There is no apparent astronomical or meteorological
explanation for what Pauline, of Sunnyside, Woolsery, saw. The armed
forces deny any flight movement over North Devon that morning. While
this was happening, Pauline said: "I felt that time sort of took on a
different meaning, I felt light-headed, nauseous and very disorientated.
"I remember thinking something weird is going on here," she said. Mr
Cooper said: "It's a typical UFO sighting -- what it was, I've got no
idea. The symptoms Pauline described are again typical of a sighting and
known to ufologists as the 'Oz Factor,' -- named after the Wizard of Oz
when Dorothy was in Oz -- the 'in between' land. "When you see something
which is not known to you, it feels as if everything around you has
stopped and you're in no man's land. It's the mind trying to cope
with what it's seen" He said a similar version of the Oz Factor was
experienced by troops in the First World War while they were waiting to
go over the top. Their concentration was so great their minds blocked
out everything else. Mr Cooper added: "Both Lee and Pauline have
experienced something quite extraordinary."
---

[UK 12]
Source: Express and Star (UK)
Publish Date: 16th November 1998
From: "Lee Edmunds"<Lee.Edmunds@altasystems.co.uk>

UFO Sighting !

(Letters Page)

I was interested to read the letter from David Rose in which he says he
saw a UFO on Sunday October 18th because I saw one on the same day at
the same time.

I was travelling with my dad from Sheffield to Wolverhampton at about
1.30pm. We both noticed a strange object in the sky directly in front of
us. It was a large rectangular mirror, and it seemed motionless.

Even though we were travelling at 70mph, we didn't seem to get any
closer to the object and it's size seemed unaltered.

I would guess that it was somewhere over north Leicestershire, but it
was difficult to be certain. After about 15 minutes we lost sight of the
object.

It was a very bright sunny day and my dad thinls that it may have been
some sort of reflection, but I'm not sure.

The above letter was submitted to the E&S by Jobey Bayliss of Nottingham
(aged 12). Hope you can use it. I will try and get a copy of the letter
from David Rose mentioned in the letter and forward it to you.

----------===============******************===============----------

World News
==========

[W 1]******

Source: Washington Associated Press
From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang)

Astronomers record gamma ray light

WASHINGTON (AP) - For the first time, astronomers have recorded visible
light from the source of a gamma ray burst, a mysterious deep space
eruption more powerful than the energy of 10 million billion stars,
researchers report.

The gamma ray burst was detected at 4:47 a.m. EST Saturday and was
detected by two orbiting observatories. News of the event was relayed
through a network to astronomers. Ground-based telescopes were able to
capture optical light from the fading afterglow that followed the
110-second peak of the burst. Gamma ray bursts are common, happening
several times a week. But they come and go so swiftly that astronomers
have never before been able to link optical observations with the gamma
ray detection.

Officials said the stellar eruption originated about 10 billion light
years away but was so powerful in visible light that it could have been
sighted from the ground with binoculars if, by chance, someone had been
looking.

"If the burst had occurred somewhere in our galactic neighborhood, it
would have been so bright that night would've turned into day," said
Chryssa Kouveliotou of the Universities Space Research Association, a
contract science group at the Marshall Space Flight Center in
Huntsville, Ala.

NASA said that the burst appeared to originate from near the
constellation Corona Borealis, visible in the predawn northern sky.

The gamma ray burst phenomenon was discovered in 1967, but the bursts
remain mysterious. They occur randomly across the sky several hundred
times a year, with the peak of each burst lasting from a few
milliseconds to a few minutes. Astronomers do not know their origin or
precise cause. Some speculate that bursts originate from black holes.
Since gamma rays are invisible to the eye, the eruptions were unknown
until the development of gamma ray detectors.

The burst last Saturday was detected by NASA's Compton Gamma Ray
Observatory and by the Italian-Dutch satellite BeppoSAX. Both satellite
observatories regularly monitor the sky in search of such stellar
events. The satellites pinpointed the sky location of the burst, and the
data were relayed quickly to other observers. Visible light was then
detected by teams from the California Institute of Technology using a
telescope at the Mount Palomar Observatory in California and by
observers from Washington's Carnegie Institute, using the Keck II
telescope in Hawaii.

Based on the measured intensities of the light and the gamma rays,
experts estimated energy released from the explosion could have been
equal to the energy of 10 million billion stars like the sun - that's
one followed by 16 zeroes. The energy estimate, however, could have been
affected by at least two factors, experts said.

Researchers at Cal Tech and Carnegie later determined that a foreground
galaxy may have been between Earth and the origin of the gamma ray
burst. Gravity from the foreground galaxy could have bent the light from
the burst and caused what is known as gravitation lensing. This could
cause the light to appear brighter than it actually was, rather as a
lens magnifies light.

Also researchers said the energy burst may have been in a beam, like a
focused flashlight, instead of going out in all directions, as from an
uncovered light bulb. A beamed burst also would appear to be more
powerful than a burst that spewed energy in all directions at once.
---

[W 2]******

Source: Source: Arizona Star / via The Guardian London
Publish Date: 28th January 1999
From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang)

Latest possibility in search for life is Charon, tiny moon orbiting
Pluto

ANAHEIM, Calif. - Charon, the tiny moon discovered 20 years ago orbiting
Pluto, is the latest candidate in the search for extraterrestrial life.
The little, dim satellite and its barely visible parent planet are at
the edge of the solar system, more than 2.6 billion miles from the sun.
NASA scientists think one of them may be warm enough for life.

Astronomers believe there have been four possible homes for life in our
solar system at some point in history, David DesMarais of the NASA Ames
Research Center told the American Association for the Advancement of
Science meeting. They were Mars, Venus, Jupiter's moon Europa, and now
Charon. A NASA team announced two years ago that they thought they had
found fossil evidence of life in a meteorite from Mars. The Galileo
satellite orbiting the moons of Jupiter has sent back pictures which
hint at an ocean under the ice of Europa.

The confirmation that microbial life on Earth could be 3.8 billion years
old suggests that life might have had time to form on Venus before it
was wiped out by a runaway greenhouse effect. Pluto is so small, faint
and far away that it was discovered only 60 years ago.

Charon was not seen until 1978. Although it is 30 times the distance of
the Earth from the sun, it could have warmth: The little moon and its
twin planet Pluto are only 12,000 miles apart.
---

[W 3]******

Source: ABC Online News / Australia
Publish Date: 25th January 1999
From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang)

Marree Man Outline Mystery Deepens

Those responsible for the Marree Man outline in South Australia's far
north apparently will not be revealing themselves to the British media
this week. While the South Australian Government is playing down the
affair, interest from the British media is intensifying.

First there was a suggested link with an Oxford pub, then claims that
all would be revealed in a container buried near an ancient carved
warrior in Dorset.

Slowly, some would say skillfully, the British press is being reeled
into the story along with millions of Britons who have never heard of
Marree.

But now a fax, allegedly from the perpetrators, claims the media has
misinterpreted recent statements and there will be only the first of a
series of clues at the Dorset site. Also, the clues will only hint at
the answer - not reveal it.

The South Australian Government has banned public access to the Marree
Man outline, but will not waste resources tracking down the
perpetrators.

The ploughed outline is regarded by angry local Aborigines as an
insulting and sacrilegious stunt.
---

[W 4]******

Source: Associated Press
Publish Date: Thursday 14th January 1999
From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang)

Mrs. Clinton, Kids Dream of Mars

WASHINGTON (AP) - First lady Hillary Rodham Clinton and arts officials
kicked off planning Thursday for the first permanent station on Mars by
some of the schoolkids who may eventually go there.

Youngsters are being asked to think about the year 2030 and a
``Millennium Mars Project.'' So far, only small experimental vehicles
have been landed on Mars.

``We will all be reliving, through these young people's imagination,
what it means to create a new world,'' Ms. Clinton said during the
kickoff at the National Air and Space Museum, part of the Smithsonian
Institution.

The idea is to get pupils and high school students working with
scientists and technicians on the design for a permanent Mars
settlement, according to officials at the National Endowment for the
Arts, which is putting $500,000 into the project.

``Our young citizens will not only imagine what new dance and music and
painting will emerge in a community on Mars,'' said NEA Chairman Bill
Ivey, ``but they must also consider what our interplanetary pioneers
will carry with them. They will need creative minds - imagination and
ingenuity - to solve the problems they are certain to encounter as they
invent their new world.''

Before her speech, Mrs. Clinton and Donna Shirley, who managed the Mars
Pathfinder project, met 15 pupils from Washington's Anne Beers
Elementary School.

Sitting under a prototype space suit for visitors to Mars, they talked
about work the children have done on how they imagined living conditions
would be - based on what has already been discovered about conditions on
the planet.

----------===============******************===============----------

And Finally!
------------

Dave_UFO says: I had to renew the insurance policy on my car this
month. Whilst reading through the policy manual which explains what
is covered and what isn't, is the below paragraph.

'What is not covered'

'Loss or damage occasioned by pressure waves caused by aircraft and
other aerial devices travelling at sonic or supersonic speeds'

Well that covers a multitude of possibilities don't you think?

----------===============******************===============----------

UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK

STATEMENT
UK-UFO-NW statement: The articles or text appearing within these
pages are not necessarily the views or opinions of United Kingdom UFO
Network.

REPORTS
Please forward all reports to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk

WWW
Visit us on the World Wide Web at
http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/

BACK ISSUES & FILES
For information on receiving back issues and other files send mail
with REQUEST INFO in the subject area to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk

IRC - (INTERNET RELAY CHAT)
The meetings take place at 11pm (2300hrs) each and every Saturday
night. Times will vary depending on your location in the world. If you
would like to know the time in your part of the world send a mail to:

ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk

In the subject section put: IRC TIME INFO

In the message of your mail please put:

a) Your Country
b) Your location
c) Nearest major City

You can also find times for many cities throughout the world at our web
site: http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/

Connecting to our weekly UFO meetings on the IRC (internet relay chat)
is now easier than ever.

**NEW**

Fully configured MIRC irc software for you to download

For some years now you have heard us go on about connecting to our
weekly UFO IRC meetings which we now hold on the Chatnet servers. You
are no doubt also aware that quite regularly we have special guests
join us on channel to answer your questions. Recent guests have been
Stanton Friedman, Nick Pope (UK MoD), John Carpenter, Kevin Randle,
Nick Redfern etc. Coming guests include Jesse Marcel jnr and Joyce
Murphy (Beyond Boundaries).

How you ever wished that you could join in, but have not really known
how too. We have special customised versions of MIRC for Win 3.1/3.11
& Win 95/98 that until now have only been available to our guests.

UK.UFO.NW would like you to join in our weekly IRC meetings. For this
reason we are making available customised versions of MIRC just for
you. They are totally free, so simple to use and customised with your
details. MIRC will be supplied with full instructions.

For your customised version of MIRC we need to know the below details.

SYSTEM: Win95/98 or Win3.1/3.11
YOUR NAME:
YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS:
NICKNAME: (the name you wish to be known by on channel)
ALTERNATIVE NICKNAME: (incase your first nickname is already being used)
AOL USER: YES/NO
SEND VIA E-MAIL: YES/NO (do you want MIRC sent as an e-mail attachment)
DOWNLOAD FROM WWW: (do you want to download MIRC via web site)

Send your mail with the following subject line: REQUEST MIRC

Send your request to ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk

A receipt will be sent acknowledging your request. Please be patient
while the program is customised for you. We are unable to give a
specific time of when the program will be ready for each individual.

For those of you needing help connecting to our IRC meetings send
your questions to:

ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk

SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION
The UK.UFO.NW free fortnightly e-zine covering UFO reports and
information from the UK and around the world is now available by
subscribing to our new List Server.

Send mail to:

listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu

In the main body of the mail put:

subscribe ufo fn ln

note: in place of fn put your first name.
      in place of ln put your last name.

For example:

subscribe ufo John Smith

A confirm mail will then be sent to you which you need to reply to
within 48 hours to be put on the e-zine mailing list.

If you have problems you may also subscribe by sending mail to:

ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk

In the subject section of your mail type: SUBSCRIBE

That's it - see you next time!

#####






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                    Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:15:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:27:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be


>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 04:46:31 -0800
>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial

>Fellow Updates members,

>On Tuesday my new edition of MUFON Journal arrived.

>The cover story describes what may be what we have been hoping
>for - the skeleton of an extraterrestrial. A paleontologist, the
>late Dr. Slaughter's discovery of a unique skeleton discovered
>in Texas. Dr.Slaughter was Professor of paleontology and the
>director of the Shuler Museum at Southern Methodist University
>at Dallas, TX. He examined it, casted it and removed it to his
>lab for analysis. He wrote a technical report describing it as
>the discovery of a new species of a new genus.

>The cover of the Journal shows Walt Andrus holding the plaster
>cast of this 39" tall being with four fingers, including a
>thumb.

<snip>

Let me be the first to pass on what was reported on the Project
1947 list.

The skeleton is a fake, but a delightful one. Slaughter, a
genuine paleontologist, amused himself by creating "fossils" of
mythical creatures -- fairies, etc. -- and concocting fake
scientific reports of how they were found. He assembled his
material into a book. He wasn't trying to fool anybody, and
never expected anyone to believe his "reports." It was all for
entertainment -- a paleontologist elegantly spoofing his own
specialty.

Nobody seeing the book would have believed any of it was real.
Somehow, though, the alien skeleton got torn from its context,
and taken seriously. Why Walt Andrus believed it is beyond me.

I've deleted the messages on the P 1947 list that explained all
this, and gave web links to the whole story. Maybe someone else
would like to supply them here.

Greg Sandow





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                  Re: 3/13: This Week on the UFO Community

From: Diana Botsford <diana_botsford@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:23:00 PST
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:30:40 -0500
Subject: Re: 3/13: This Week on the UFO Community


The UFO Community on MSN is available at
http://communities.msn.com/ufo/default.asp.

All chats are accessible by using either our built in chat page,
MS Chat or any IRC client.  The chat server name is
publicchat.msn.com and the channel/room name is #briefing.

================================

Overheard in our chat room and newsgroups:

*ACC's Shulman vs. USWebs Joe Firmage? Whose winning and why?

*Is ET from our future? A theoretical discussion on time travel.

*Did We Initiate Contact?

=========================================

Chats This Week at the UFO Community on MSN:

SATURDAYS - Abductions - 1pm, PT - 9pm, GMT
SATURDAYS - General Discussion - 6pm, PT
SUNDAYS - The Politics of UFOs - 6pm, PT
TUESDAYS - This Week in the News - 6pm, PT
WEDNESDAYS - Ancient Connections- 7pm, PT
THURSDAYS - UFO Skeptics - 7pm, PT
FRIDAYS - The Science of UFOs - 8pm, PT

Our chat room is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for discussion
relating to any UFO issues.
===============================
Recommended chat of the week:

Wednesday: Ancient Connections
The Myths of UFOs
7pm, PT

The myths of Mount Olympus, Vanguard and the Roman Empire -- are
they early reports of ET?

Join the Ancient Connections staff each week for a look at the
archaeological, historical and mythological elements of
yesterday.


================================

Featured at the UFO Community on MSN:

*** ROSWELL: Hard Answers

Aliens, spy balloons and Air Force dummies have all been
attributed to the Roswell '47 event. But wait, what about German
Saucer technology?

Joan & John are online names for two well respected UFO
researchers. They have donated some of their recent emails to
this site in order to stimulate new directions in the study of
UFOs. This installment begins their provocative theories
regarding Roswell.

Take a peek at this provocative correspondence at
http://communities.msn.com/ufo.

***Flying Saucer Technology? The Science of UFOs Staff writer
Maarten Jansen details current theories surrounding the
technology behind Flying Saucers.  He also points out reasons
for why the recovered German Saucer Technology may have very
little to do with what we're seeing in our skies.

Is there a technology to the disks we coin as UFOs?  Read
Jansen's article then join the debate on our newsgroup at
news://msnnews.msn.com/msn.onstage.watchfire.bbs.

***The Media's Influence  Now that the major tv networks are
getting into the act, how do we separate fact from fiction? Join
the discussion.

***What Price, Truth?
Critical Review: "The Truth"

Firmage's controversial online book asks if we can afford the
lies. Enter the Screening Room at
http://communities.msn.com/ufo
read our review and join the discussion.


***John Brandenburg, co author of "The Case for the Face", looks to
Martian meteors for the Case for the Face?
The Nakhla meteorite is bringing up new potential evidence of life on
Mars.  Listen to Physicist Dr. John Brandenburg discuss the meteor
research to date and how it supports the hypothesis of life on Mars.

Listen and read all Brandenburg's theories at
http://communities.msn.com/ufo.
==============================================
The Role of Women in Space Science and Science Fiction
Diana Botsford on the Laura Lee Show
Tuesday, March 16
9pm, PT
http://www.talkspot.com

>From Star Trek's Captain Janeway to the work of scientists such as Dr.
Donna Shirley of JPL (known for her lead in the Sojurner project), women
have finally come of age in the search for life.

Join UFO Community's own Diana Botsford along with talk show host Laura
Lee (http://www.lauralee.com) and Monica Rix Paxon (coeditor of "The
Case for the Face") for a look at how women are finally leaving their
thumbprint on the most exciting of sciences - the search for ET.

==============================================
Vote for the UFO Community on MSN
Weekly vote for #1 UFO site. Go and vote for us to get in the top 10!

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Galaxy/4384/Top10Links.htm

Remember, our URL is http://communities.msn.com/ufo

Thanks!


***Volunteers Wanted:

1)Our Publicity Department is in need of enthusiastic individuals who
would like a free MSN account in exchange for assistance.
2)Must know basic HTML.  You will receive a free account with MSN in
exchange for helping out.

=======================================

We look forward to seeing you online.

Diana Botsford
Publisher/Forum Manager
UFO Forum
http://communities.msn.com/UFO

- - - - - -
"To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought . . .
To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield."
Tennyson's Ulysses



************************
The ufo listserv is a free service of MSN's UFO Forum.
To subscribe, send email to majordomo@Majordomo.net
In the body of the message write: subscribe ufo

To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@Majordomo.net
In the body of the message write: unsubscribe ufo





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                    3/13: This Week on the UFO Community

From: Diana Botsford <diana_botsford@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:23:00 PST
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:44:20 -0500
Subject: 3/13: This Week on the UFO Community


The UFO Community on MSN is available at
http://communities.msn.com/ufo/default.asp.

All chats are accessible by using either our built in chat page,
MS Chat or any IRC client.  The chat server name is
publicchat.msn.com and the channel/room name is #briefing.

================================

Overheard in our chat room and newsgroups:

*ACC's Shulman vs. USWebs Joe Firmage? Whose winning and why?

*Is ET from our future? A theoretical discussion on time travel.

*Did We Initiate Contact?

=========================================

Chats This Week at the UFO Community on MSN:

SATURDAYS - Abductions - 1pm, PT - 9pm, GMT
SATURDAYS - General Discussion - 6pm, PT
SUNDAYS - The Politics of UFOs - 6pm, PT
TUESDAYS - This Week in the News - 6pm, PT
WEDNESDAYS - Ancient Connections- 7pm, PT
THURSDAYS - UFO Skeptics - 7pm, PT
FRIDAYS - The Science of UFOs - 8pm, PT

Our chat room is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for discussion
relating to any UFO issues.
===============================
Recommended chat of the week:

Wednesday: Ancient Connections
The Myths of UFOs
7pm, PT

The myths of Mount Olympus, Vanguard and the Roman Empire -- are
they early reports of ET?

Join the Ancient Connections staff each week for a look at the
archaeological, historical and mythological elements of
yesterday.


================================

Featured at the UFO Community on MSN:

*** ROSWELL: Hard Answers

Aliens, spy balloons and Air Force dummies have all been
attributed to the Roswell '47 event. But wait, what about German
Saucer technology?

Joan & John are online names for two well respected UFO
researchers. They have donated some of their recent emails to
this site in order to stimulate new directions in the study of
UFOs. This installment begins their provocative theories
regarding Roswell.

Take a peek at this provocative correspondence at
http://communities.msn.com/ufo.

***Flying Saucer Technology? The Science of UFOs Staff writer
Maarten Jansen details current theories surrounding the
technology behind Flying Saucers.  He also points out reasons
for why the recovered German Saucer Technology may have very
little to do with what we're seeing in our skies.

Is there a technology to the disks we coin as UFOs?  Read
Jansen's article then join the debate on our newsgroup at
news://msnnews.msn.com/msn.onstage.watchfire.bbs.

***The Media's Influence  Now that the major tv networks are
getting into the act, how do we separate fact from fiction? Join
the discussion.

***What Price, Truth?
Critical Review: "The Truth"

Firmage's controversial online book asks if we can afford the
lies. Enter the Screening Room at
http://communities.msn.com/ufo
read our review and join the discussion.


***John Brandenburg, co author of "The Case for the Face", looks to
Martian meteors for the Case for the Face?
The Nakhla meteorite is bringing up new potential evidence of life on
Mars.  Listen to Physicist Dr. John Brandenburg discuss the meteor
research to date and how it supports the hypothesis of life on Mars.

Listen and read all Brandenburg's theories at
http://communities.msn.com/ufo.
==============================================
The Role of Women in Space Science and Science Fiction
Diana Botsford on the Laura Lee Show
Tuesday, March 16
9pm, PT
http://www.talkspot.com

>From Star Trek's Captain Janeway to the work of scientists such as Dr.
Donna Shirley of JPL (known for her lead in the Sojurner project), women
have finally come of age in the search for life.

Join UFO Community's own Diana Botsford along with talk show host Laura
Lee (http://www.lauralee.com) and Monica Rix Paxon (coeditor of "The
Case for the Face") for a look at how women are finally leaving their
thumbprint on the most exciting of sciences - the search for ET.

==============================================
Vote for the UFO Community on MSN
Weekly vote for #1 UFO site. Go and vote for us to get in the top 10!

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Galaxy/4384/Top10Links.htm

Remember, our URL is http://communities.msn.com/ufo

Thanks!


***Volunteers Wanted:

1)Our Publicity Department is in need of enthusiastic individuals who
would like a free MSN account in exchange for assistance.
2)Must know basic HTML.  You will receive a free account with MSN in
exchange for helping out.

=======================================

We look forward to seeing you online.

Diana Botsford
Publisher/Forum Manager
UFO Forum
http://communities.msn.com/UFO

- - - - - -
"To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought . . .
To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield."
Tennyson's Ulysses



************************
The ufo listserv is a free service of MSN's UFO Forum.
To subscribe, send email to majordomo@Majordomo.net
In the body of the message write: subscribe ufo

To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@Majordomo.net





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                 UFOs Cause Blackout in 6 Brazilians States

From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:49:08 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:20:27 -0500
Subject: UFOs Cause Blackout in 6 Brazilians States


Last thursday, March 11th, 1999, at 22:00, a blackout left 6
states of Brazil in complete darkness for 4 hours in some
cities.

The states of Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina, Paran=E1, S=E3o
Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Minas Gerais, Goi=E1s, Mato Grosso e Mato
Grosso de Sul were affected by this blackout.

The Brazilian governmet said that lighting had struck the power
station of Bauru, in S=E3o Paulo and caused the problem, but
there's something strange on the air.

Jo=E3o Carlos dos Santos, from Itu, at the time of the blackout
went outside his house to watch the sky, which was cloudy.

"At this moment he saw 3 stranges glowing objects. They were
silvery and bigger than an airpalne.

They were hovering low over nearby power cables that go
from the hydro-electric station at Itaip=FA to S=E3o Paulo".

"They flew in a straight direction at a high speed. They were
zig-zagging but didn't crash each other.

After that I was reminded about a story that a friend told me
about UFOs over a power station during a blackout.


THIAGO LUIZ TICCHETTI
Diretor Do Departamento de Publica=E7=E3o e Tradu=E7=E3o Especializadas (=
 DEPTE -
EBE-ET / Brasilia-Brasil)
Director of the Publication Department and Specialized Translation
ICQ - 22841973








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   Mar > Mar 14

                   Laura Lee Shoe E-News - March 13, 1999

From: Laura Lee <webmaster@lauralee.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:51:00 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:14:46 -0500
Subject: Laura Lee Shoe E-News - March 13, 1999


LAURA LEE E-NEWS For Saturday, March 13, 1999
By Laura Lee
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SHOW DATE: Saturday March 13, 1999


Is Earth in Danger of ET Contamination?
Don't let ET bacteria contaminate Earth! A new NASA mission which plans to
bring 300 grams of martian soil directly back to Earth. Barry DiGregorio
and Dr. Gil Levin offer the evidence for live microbes right now in the
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An Alien/Human Hybrid's Skull?
What would you do if given an oddly shaped skull purported to be that of
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 14

                    Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:02:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:18:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be


>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:15:13 -0500

>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 04:46:31 -0800
>>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial

<snip>

>Let me be the first to pass on what was reported on the Project
>1947 list.

>The skeleton is a fake, but a delightful one. Slaughter, a
>genuine paleontologist, amused himself by creating "fossils" of
>mythical creatures -- fairies, etc. -- and concocting fake
>scientific reports of how they were found. He assembled his
>material into a book. He wasn't trying to fool anybody, and
>never expected anyone to believe his "reports." It was all for
>entertainment -- a paleontologist elegantly spoofing his own
>specialty.

>Nobody seeing the book would have believed any of it was real.
>Somehow, though, the alien skeleton got torn from its context,
>and taken seriously. Why Walt Andrus believed it is beyond me.

>I've deleted the messages on the P 1947 list that explained all
>this, and gave web links to the whole story. Maybe someone else
>would like to supply them here.


Greg,

Great post.

Beats me the amount of energy it takes to establish some truth.

Beats me how effortlessly distortion can establish itself as
fact.

Is there in truth no beauty?






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   Mar > Mar 14

                       Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

From: Nemesis <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:35:51 +1000
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:28:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets


>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:41:33 -0500
>From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Betty Hill's Map of Planets
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>....I would strongly recommend reconsidering the Zeta Reticuli
>>interpretation of Majorie Fish in light of the more recent
>>studies of Joachim Koch who suggest this map corresponds to our
>>own solar system. Joachim had very pertinent arguments to
>>justify this conclusion......

>>.... the point in question is : does
>>the map represent our solar system at a given date in 1961 ? We
>>are not considering the question where the map comes from, etc.
>>This question should be easy to answer, no ?....

>Well, Stan's word weighs a lot - but the planets are much
>heavier. We have found that the map has a striking similarity
>with the positions of the planets and the biggest and most
>remarkable asteroids which were present at that time in that
>certain region. It is the planetary system around the time of
>the abduction - exactly one month later. At that time Betty's
>nightmares vanished.

>...... We have presented
>the facts - it was not Zeta Reticuli what Betty Hill had seen.
>Best wishes
>Joachim Koch, Berlin
>Hans-Juergen Kyborg, Berlin

Even a cursory glance at the "interstellar hypothesis" raises
lots of questions. Even with highly advanced technology it is
still one hell of a long way even to the next nearest star. At
high velocity an interstellar craft would only have to brush a
grain of sand and it would be blown to oblivion.

By contrast we live only a few light-hours away from a whole
bunch of worlds of which some have deep oceans of water and hot
spots.

Did you know the Earth is uninhabitible? Long range spectroscopy
has established that our cloud tops are at minus sixty
centigrade. There could not be life here.

I wonder if part of the disinformation effort has been to ask us
to "watch the birdie" by drawing our attention to the
ridiculously far away while ignoring the vast life-friendly
habitat right on our doorstep.

We are like little frogs in a puddle who have just learnt there
are lakes a couple of hops away, while some amongst us keep
croaking out that sure there is life, but it is way over the
horizon. That does not compute.

The ancients were not stupid. When the UFOs departed they
watched which way they went. They identified certain types of
craft and crew with various planets in the solar system.  In the
fullness of time I am sure this will turn out to be so, just as
history tells us.

Betty Hill's friends would have been from the Jovian system.
Which is still not much help, since that is like saying someone
is from "Asia" or "the Pacific" only we are talking about places
many thousandsfold larger.

I think the Boys in Berlin have got something and they at least
deserve fair consideration.

Lawrie Williams______






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   Mar > Mar 14

              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:42:32 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:35:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed


>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:10:26 +1000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Lawrie Williams <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

>In June 1995 while next to the highway between Alice Springs and
>Darwin my sons and I watched an aircraft that I believe was a
>white YF-23 pass directly overhead. It was absolutely totally
>impossibly silent and at 4 am in the desert that means very
>quiet indeed.

>My first 10 seconds of reaction were: "Balloon - no - tourist
>stunt - no - what the....." and from then on I concentrated on
>watching through the binocs as the flashing lights picked out
>sections of the fuselage which I identified from "Stealth" a
>Time Life Video (No V648-01 ) about a week later.

Yes, there are other reports of such sightings. My brother lives
in Georgia.  He described what he saw in the late
afternoon...not after dark...

He saw a large Triangle floating silently along above the trees.
He watched it for a couple of minutes, and during this time it
had stoped and hovered.  He remembered that he had his vidoe
camera in the back of his van, so he moved there and as he
entered the van to pickup the camera, the triangle was there.
When he stood upright again, about 10 seconds later, it was
gone.  He didn't hear any sounds either.  I cannot remember
exactly how far away from him he considered the object to
be...but he said it was the size of something similar to a DC 9.

He was a crew Chief on a Loch in Vietnam, which also means door
gunner.  He was in the 101 First Air Calvery...he knows military
and civilian air craft.  He also served prior to going to
Vietnam in the Military Police.  He does not believe in UFOs, or
let me say as he was growing up, he did not believe in them....I
don't know what he thinks now, after having seen the Triangle...

>US Military exercises were in progress at that time in that
>region. So ordinary people like us can and do see these
>secret aircraf "travelling around willy-nilly".

>>People at the cutting edge of physics don't know how to do
>>"gravity reduction" or "anti-gravity", yet Fouche would have us

I disagree with this statment.  Just becasue you and I do not
know how to do it does not mean they do not know.  They can tell
you anything.  In fact they will deny it conclusively, if you
ask...That does not make it so, however.

>>believe that some group of people "inside the government" have
>>learned this and have made numerous craft based on this
>>knowledge, presumably back-engineered from Alien Flying Craft
>>(AFC).

>The origin of the technology is a separate issue. These aircraft
>have been seen and described. A quick search of even my own
>pitiful files turns up many cases of BFT's that behave like they
>have a human crew rather than in the eccentric manner of genuine
>UFOs.

I really don't think so.  I think the triangles are very
definitely manufactured here on Earth.  One of the recent
programs on TLC, showed a reenactment of a black triangle
hovering above a group of soldiers and covering them with a
"white light."  One of the group was not covered by the light
and he moved away from the triangle...at that time an American
Soldier came from the woods and screamed at him, slapped him on
the head and told him to get back out there.

Apparently the light is used as a mind block...It is probably a
product of light and sonics... It appears to be a "test" to
determine how well they are simulating the "E.T." _vehicles_!
I would suggest that rather than aruging this point, that you or
anyone just "prove me wrong."  Don't argue me wrong, "Prove me
wrong." <G> ;-)

>>Do I think Uncle Sam (along with some industrial company) has
>>understood and applied AFC technology and allowed it to be flown
>>around the USA and the world? No.

>Well what I saw was definitely not a seagull.

>Lawrie Williams

Yes, you are correct Lawrie...It was not a seagull. More than
likely it was just what you think it was.

REgards, Mike

 Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
 ICQ#:7508455
 BBS: (502) 683-3026
 Fax: (502) 686-7394
 Home: (502) 683-6811
        ---





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 14

                  Re: 3/13: This Week on the UFO Community

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:47:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:38:24 -0500
Subject: Re: 3/13: This Week on the UFO Community


>From: Diana Botsford <diana_botsford@hotmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: 3/13: This Week on the UFO Community
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:23:00 PST


>The UFO Community on MSN is available at
>http://communities.msn.com/ufo/default.asp.

I'm afraid it isn't. This URL goes to

http://communities.msn.com/ufo/home/community.css

which generates a 404.

I was trying to get to that URL from the MSN pages earlier
today, and had the same problem from their links. I complained,
and they told me that the people who get the problem feedback
don't handle problems relating to chats... well, it's just bad
customer service. Anyway, don't be surprised if no one shows up.
It's not because no-one tried.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo.htm
------






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 14

              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Jsmortell@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:32:55 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:44:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed


>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:10:26 +1000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Lawrie Williams <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

>>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:19:39 -0500
>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>If the USA had devices such as Fouche claims, you can bet they
>>wouldn't be casually traveling around willy-nilly for people to
>>see, photograph, and provide info to those who would do us ill.

>In June 1995 while next to the highway between Alice Springs and
>Darwin my sons and I watched an aircraft that I believe was a
>white YF-23 pass directly overhead. It was absolutely totally
>impossibly silent and at 4 am in the desert that means very
>quiet indeed.

>My first 10 seconds of reaction were: "Balloon - no - tourist
>stunt - no - what the....." and from then on I concentrated on
>watching through the binocs as the flashing lights picked out
>sections of the fuselage which I identified from "Stealth" a
>Time Life Video (No V648-01 ) about a week later.

You may have misidentified it as a "Stealth."  It may have been
a flock of pidgeons on their way to the Embarcadero.

>US Military exercises were in progress at that time in that
>region. So ordinary people like us can and do see these
>secret aircraf "travelling around willy-nilly".

Just a thought to add to the cacaphony on this subject.  Well, a
thought or two....  the first being that triangular craft of
unknown origin have been sighted in the United States for many
years, beginning as early as 1980 in the New York State lower
Hudson Valley.  Talk about "willy-nilly?"   How about premature
"willy-nilly."

The second among the various thoughts ocurred while sipping an
evil spirit... what was it I saw over the skies of lower
Westchester County in August of 1998?  The population here is
said to be the bedroom of New York City.  You work there, you
sleep here.  And while it wasn't the desert, it was 10PM at
night on a Friday night, while people, many people, were outside
in their expensive terraces and back yards sipping Gripple and
Chateau LaFite Rothchild, 1957.

Maybe it was the wine?  Hmmm.  Ultra Light or Bud Light?

>>People at the cutting edge of physics don't know how to do
>>"gravity reduction" or "anti-gravity", yet Fouche would have us

>Minus 120 centigrade is achievable and well within the known
>range of superconductivity. I have no trouble accepting that a
>dense metal vapour at that temperature could do to gravity what
>a faraday cage does to electromagnetism.

Listen up, we may be able to be unobserved, but we are _never_
silent!  The technology born to create (-120C) may exist, but
not on board anything either silent or invisible, and certainly
not visible over populated areas..... areas populated by among
the highest per capita income in the USA.  Not likely.  These
folks don't even like Westchester County Airport!

>>believe that some group of people "inside the government" have
>>learned this and have made numerous craft based on this
>>knowledge, presumably back-engineered from Alien Flying Craft
>>(AFC).

>The origin of the technology is a separate issue. These aircraft
>have been seen and described. A quick search of even my own
>pitiful files turns up many cases of BFT's that behave like they
>have a human crew rather than in the eccentric manner of genuine
>UFOs.

Please explain how a human crew may be distinguished in such a
manner as to explain  "... they behave like they have a human
crew rather than in the eccentric manner of genuine UFOs."
That's a bit too "woof!" for me.  Besides, it is well known here
in New York, that alien vehicles piloted by tipsy, Grippled dip
pilots, can and do operate their craft in a most uniform, stable
and smooth manner. Hah!

1) not all UFOs behave in an eccentric manner
2) not all wet birds fly at night
3) what the heck does that mean anyway?

>>Do I think AFC are real? Yes.

Really?

>That is not at issue here either.

Really!

>>Do I think Uncle Sam (along with some industrial company) has
>>understood and applied AFC technology and allowed it to be flown
>>around the USA and the world? No.

>Well what I saw was definitely not a seagull.

>Lawrie Williams

Maybe it was swamp gas!

If people spent more time drinking Gripple they would not have
the energy to look up.  Not only that, but they would not have
the senses needed to understand what they saw anyway.  So I say,
avoid the controversy and drink up.  You've got a lot to live,
and Gripple's got a lot to take.

Dr. Jaime Gesundt,

Canal Street UFOlogical Society and Discount House of Freshly





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 14

                         Re: Trent and Rouen Images

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 00:00:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:30:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images


>Message text written by UFO UpDates - Toronto
>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:28:17 -0500
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>Regarding..

>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:57:13 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images

>David Rudiak wrote:

>>I just see a lot more handwaving and arguing around the point
>>here. Sorry to raise this painful topic, but I remember the same
>>sort of vague and slippery Eastonian arguments with regard to


>David,

>Keeping this separate..

>What may be a conceivable explanation for Kenneth Arnold's
>sighting, originated as a result of a query I had raised on a
>knowledgeable 'birdwatchers' discussion list.>

>Realising it seemed nobody had ever questioned ornithologists
>about Arnold's descriptions of the object's distinctive flight
>characteristics, possibly equated with documented observations
>of birds, I asked for opinions based on his comments.>

>These were some of the full responses, previously unpublished,
>which I subsequently mentioned extracts from:

OK.

So Ornithologists "agree" that Arnold saw birds. How many
ornithologists actually studied Arnold's sighting carefully?

How many ornithologists are aware that Arnold reported, among
other things, that he turned his plane from flying eastward to
southward and rolled down his window so there would be no window
reflections to confuse him?  At this point he was flying
parallel to the "birds" flying south.

How many ornithologists think that the birds could fly faster
than the plane? (Arnold reported the objects flying at high
speed southward past Mt. Adams, leaving his plane far behind).

Note that if Arnold had kept flying eastward toward birds and
birds were flying southward, the _sighting_line_ from Arnold's
plane to the birds would rotate to the _right_, southward....
thus perhaps giving the impression, momentarily, of high speed
craft heading southward. However, when Arnold was flying
parallel to the track of the objects, had they been birds, the
sighting line to the birst would have rotated to the _left_
since the plane speed would have exceeded the bird speed. Under
these conditions Arnold would have realized quickly that he was
going faster than the "objects."






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   Mar > Mar 14

                    Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 01:28:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:32:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:15:13 -0500

>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 04:46:31 -0800
>>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial

>>Fellow Updates members,

>>On Tuesday my new edition of MUFON Journal arrived.

>>The cover story describes what may be what we have been hoping
>>for - the skeleton of an extraterrestrial. A paleontologist, the
>>late Dr. Slaughter's discovery of a unique skeleton discovered
>>in Texas. Dr.Slaughter was Professor of paleontology and the
>>director of the Shuler Museum at Southern Methodist University
>>at Dallas, TX. He examined it, casted it and removed it to his
>>lab for analysis. He wrote a technical report describing it as
>>the discovery of a new species of a new genus.

>>The cover of the Journal shows Walt Andrus holding the plaster
>>cast of this 39" tall being with four fingers, including a
>>thumb.

><snip>

>Let me be the first to pass on what was reported on the Project
>1947 list.

Greg wrote:

>The skeleton is a fake, but a delightful one.

Thanx for clearing this up!

John Velez





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   Mar > Mar 14

                        Re: The Alleged 'Alien' Skull

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 01:41:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:35:48 -0500
Subject: Re: The Alleged 'Alien' Skull

>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:33:43 -0800
>From: Christine Sanderson <skygypsy@vegasnet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: The Alleged 'Alien' Skull

>John Velez wrote:

>>Subject: The Alleged 'Alien' Skull

>>Hi guys,

>>I went out and grabbed a gif copy of the skull in question. I
>>wanted to check it out for myself. I have attached it as a gif
>>file for the list members. Before I comment on it, I want to let
>>you know that my buddy Sasquatch (Dennis Stacy) has informed me
>>that this artifact is in fact a piece of 'artwork' and not a
>>genuine skull at all. He tells me that the artist "Slaughter"
>>(may have) used actual bone to create the thing. He also asks me
>>what it would mean if he had used "real bone."

>Hi John,

>Am I not correct in saying that the gif copy of the skull you
>were so kind to include in your response to this thread is _not_
>the skull from Bob Slaughter's skeleton in question, but the
>skull in possession of Lloyd Pye and Mark Bean, who spoke on the
>Jeff Rense program a week ago about its origins and the testing
>that it is now undergoing?

>This gif appeared at the time on Jeff Rense' webpage over the
>announcement of their guest appearance, and is also on the Laura
>Lee webpage:

Hi Christine,

After first hearing about the skull here, (UpDates) someone sent
the URL for LauraLee's website and recommended that I go there
if I want to see the skull in question. I thought it was the
-same skull- that was being discussed here on the list. My
appologies if I was wrong. I went where I was directed to go to
see a gif of the thing. I had no idea that there are _two_ of
these things floating around! It is my understanding (after
hearing from a few others) that the skull being discussed on the
list was the one that was fabricated by "Slaughter." Lloyd Pye
and Mark Bean weren't mentioned in the post that I read
originally. I am only learning of them now.

My original response was written to address Josh Goldstien's post.
I was unaware of Mssr's. Pye and Bean and 'their' skull.

Peace,

John Velez





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   Mar > Mar 14

                    Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 05:08:36 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:38:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be


>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:15:13 -0500

>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 04:46:31 -0800
>>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial

>>Fellow Updates members,

>>On Tuesday my new edition of MUFON Journal arrived.

>>The cover story describes what may be what we have been hoping
>>for - the skeleton of an extraterrestrial. A paleontologist, the
>>late Dr. Slaughter's discovery of a unique skeleton discovered
>>in Texas. Dr.Slaughter was Professor of paleontology and the
>>director of the Shuler Museum at Southern Methodist University
>>at Dallas, TX. He examined it, casted it and removed it to his
>>lab for analysis. He wrote a technical report describing it as
>>the discovery of a new species of a new genus.

>>The cover of the Journal shows Walt Andrus holding the plaster
>>cast of this 39" tall being with four fingers, including a
>>thumb.

><snip>

>Let me be the first to pass on what was reported on the Project
>1947 list.

>The skeleton is a fake, but a delightful one. Slaughter, a
>genuine paleontologist, amused himself by creating "fossils" of
>mythical creatures -- fairies, etc. -- and concocting fake
>scientific reports of how they were found. He assembled his
>material into a book. He wasn't trying to fool anybody, and
>never expected anyone to believe his "reports." It was all for
>entertainment -- a paleontologist elegantly spoofing his own
>specialty.

>Nobody seeing the book would have believed any of it was real.
>Somehow, though, the alien skeleton got torn from its context,
>and taken seriously. Why Walt Andrus believed it is beyond me.

>I've deleted the messages on the P 1947 list that explained all
>this, and gave web links to the whole story. Maybe someone else
>would like to supply them here.

>Greg Sandow

Hello Greg and fellow list subscribers,

Here it is 4:09 a.m. in La LA Land. I just came back from a
music engagement. Music is going great! I have not had much time
since this afternoon to mull over being a pawn in Walt Andrus'
alleged deception. I have to get this off my chest before
turning in to sleep.

I have checked out Jimmie L. Holman's website at:

www.helman.net/ufo/alienskeleton

I hear what you are saying. If this "alien" skeleton is only a
casting made for a fantasy prank. If the technical report is
part of the same, If there is no real skeleton then Walt Andrus
has put out a hoax that duped me and no doubt duped many others.
I certainly thought maybe an "alien" but certainly an original
skeleton of some form of living being. Dr. Slaughter and his
scientific obsevations carried a lot of weight.

I was told about this skeleton last fall. I called Walt Andrus
to learn more. We had a very pleasant conversation regarding Dr.
Bob Slaughter and his "alien" skeleton find. Walt told me that
Mrs. Judith Slaughter was going to donate the skeleton to MUFON.
He certainly made me believe there was a real skeleton. He led
me to believe that the scientific analysis was the truth. He led
me to believe that MUFON was getting the actual skeleton.

Walt's MUFON Journal article talked about examining the bones of
the skeleton and their internal structure. If this was one of
Bob Slaughter's fantasies, Mrs. Slaughter allegedly told Walt
Andrus about the skeleton. If Mr.Andrus has knowingly published
such a fantasy as a factual breakthrough in ufologfy, he has
lost his soul and became a source of embarrasment to Mufon,
researchers and investigators, the entire UFO community, and
most of all to himself.

If there is not a real skeleton but only a plaster casting and
synthetic matrix, Walt Andrus should step down once and for all.
A few weeks ago I was venting my feelings regarding the
notorious Ed Fouche. Many of you read my recent post regarding
the psychopathology of poseurs, hoaxers, and con - artists.

After many years as a MUFON field examiner, state section
director (3 counties at once), starting MUFON chapters, etc., I
now have to consider the leader - king being just another hoaxer
to hurt ufology. Walt, if you have purposely perpetrated a cheap
hoax you are one misguided person. You need help right now.
MUFON should bring a great board back together and change
course.

So Walt, if there is a real skeleton, put up. If there isn't,
shut up, and may your eyes never lift above the level of shame.

Josh Goldstein






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   Mar > Mar 14

                     Otherworld Reality - UK Conference

From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:29:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:12:48 -0500
Subject: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference


With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

List members may be (my opinion: should be) eager to make
their way to the conference below, to be held in London at
the RSA over 1-2 May this year; of which news reached me
today.

------------------

OTHERWORLD REALITY
Exploring the Ontological Status of Imaginal Consciousness

1 & 2 May, 1999
at The Royal Society of Arts, London, England

This major conference will specifically address the nature
of such mental realities as:

*  visionary states
*  encounters with otherworld beings
*  out-of-body sensations
*  lucid dreaming
*  the entities and worlds of hallucinogenic trance
*  psi experiences

Simply the mechanics of the brain, or representations of
another level of reality?


SPEAKERS and PAPERS

*  Michael Gross (New Jersey City University.  Books
include: Frontiers of the Soul.)
        "Death and the City of Imagination: William Blake
and Otherworld Realities"

*  Karl Jensen (Institute of Psychiatry, London.)
        "Ketamine and the Near-Death Experience"

*  Stanley Krippner (Professor of Psychology, Saybrook
Graduate School, San Francisco.)
        Panel Chair

*  Charles Laughlin (Carleton University, Ottawa.
Anthropologist and neuropsychologist.  Books include: Brain,
Symbol and Experience.)
        "Imagination  and Reality: On the Relations Between
Myth, Consciousness and the Quantum Sea "

*  Dean Radin (Interval Research Corporation, California.
Parapsychologist. Books include: The Conscious Universe.)
        "Experimental Evidence for an Intersubjective
Reality"

*  Peter  Rojcewicz (Julliard School, NY)
        "Beware the Physical in the Material: Imaginalia,
Folk Belief and the Eclipse of the Literal"

*  Richard Rudgley (Pitt Rivers Museum, Oxford. Books
include: The Lost Civilisations of the Stone Age.)
        "The Ethnography of the Imaginal"

*  Jacques Vallee (San Francisco. Computer scientist.  Books
include: Passport to Magonia)
        "The Rise of the Replicants"

*  Alan Worsley (Hull.  First to provide scientific proof of
the lucid dream state.)
        "Lucid Encounters in the Imaginal State"

*  Ian Marshall (Oxford.  Books include: The Quantum
Society, with Danah Zohar. )
        "Where does Consciousness Meet the Quantum Level?"

*  Paul Devereux (Books include: Re-Visioning the Earth.)
        "The Imaginal in Ancient Persian Religion and Modern
Experience"

--------------------------------------------------

The conference will be plenary in nature, so that it can act
as a single organism. It will feature a special  panel to
hopefully identify any emergent factors in the
presentations,  so that the conference can act as a research
tool in its own right.

Organised by THE CONSCIOUSNESS CONNECTION,
which has been formed to address the more neglected
questions in consciousness studies.

--------------------------------------------------

TICKETS:
2-days: $175/ L110.
1-day: $100 /L60.
[STUDENTS , SENIOR CITIZENS, & MULTIPLE TICKET ORDERS: 25%
DISCOUNT ON 2-DAY TICKETS]

NAME(S)
............................................................
...
ADDRESS.....................................................
...........
............................................................
...........
............................................................
...........
............................................................
...........
Post/Zip code.............................
Phone.....................................

To: The Consciousness Connection
UK - 2 Godson's Cottages, High St., Lower Brailes, OX15 5AQ
tel/fax: (01608) 652829
USA - 3 Hidden Spring Lane, Rye, New York 10580
tel/fax: (914) 967 0322
Make cheques etc. payable to: 'The Consciousness
Connection', in US$ or GBL






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   Mar > Mar 14

                  Re: 3/13: This Week On The UFO Community

From: Diana Botsford <diana@oznet.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:59:13 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:22:26 -0500
Subject: Re: 3/13: This Week On The UFO Community


>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:47:39 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: 3/13: This Week on the UFO Community


Mark and others,

Sigh.  Thanks for the heads up.  I found the problem and it'll
be fixed as of mid day tomorrow.  And hopefully with no more
repeats.

In the meantime, I can give you URLs directly to the articles we
mentioned:

Maarten Jansen's Technology article:
http://communities.msn.com/ufo/flying.asp

Roswell:  German Saucer Technology:
http://communities.msn.com/ufo/jj1.asp

FYI - you can enter the front default page with IE at the moment but not
Netscape.  There's a hiccup double line of code on the css file.

My humble apologies and thanks.

Diana Botsford
Publisher/Community Manager
UFO Community on MSN
http://communities.msn.com/ufo
- - - - - -
"To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought . .
To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield."
Tennyson's Ulysses






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   Mar > Mar 14

                     Re: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'..

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:56:41 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:39:01 -0500
Subject: Re: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'..


Dear UpDates,

It seems to me that there is no evidence to suggest
back-engineering of aircraft at Area 51, China Lake or
elsewhere. The fact that we are having difficulty even getting
the US military to release some documents relating to their own
flying disc aircraft developments (that we KNOW existed) in
1947/8 should tell us all something.

The response to my new book, "UFO Revelation - The Secret
Technology Exposed?" has been indicative of the intellectual
malaise within Ufology whereby there are two opposing camps;

1 - The believers - who will believe almost anything as long a
'former intelligence officer' or supposed 'insider' is putting
out the information. The believers then pat each other on the
back - after all they have "the truth" - and collect "EBE"
awards at their various Conventions and continue to demonstrate
little more than their collective gullibility........ time after
time.

The believers pretty much don't believe anything the government
tells them and their postings, articles and books tie in, all
too often, with the popular anti-government paranoia of these
pre-millennial times.

2 - The skeptics - whose tactics and illogic sometimes hark back
to the worst moments of the official USAF response to UFO
reports - 'Project Blue Book'.

Skeptics believe that, for instance, the CIA generally told the
truth about their handling of the UFO subject and they can be
relied upon to debunk even the best sightings.....
Please......!!

So basically the rest us are left on the outside of this stale
'debate'. My book, concentrating upon Man-Made UFOs and
providing good evidence for their military, terrestrial origins,
strikes at the heart of both these limited outlooks. Whilst the
UFO community may not like my book - and will do its' best to
ignore it - the public are not so convinced by either side.


Most people I talk to believe that there have been secret
military aircraft flying around for 50 years and they do not
tend to support the belief that 'aliens' are in contact with our
governments and/or have signed a pact with them (!).

TR-3B??

This utter nonsense about the so-called (and pretty impossible)
"TR-3B" is indicative of the problem we face. If it's military
it has to invoke "anti-gravity" technology even though there is
limited evidence to support the theory that electrogravitic
systems have been developed and tested. We have so-called
'insiders' babbling on about all kinds of 'alien-acquired'
technology and we are _expected_ to believe them in advance of any
remotely credible evidence. These insiders get basic facts about
conventional aircraft wrong and so how can we accept their word
on more advanced unconventional aircraft projects?

The UFO "community" - that fractious body - has been played like
a piano for 50 years and there is little evidence to suggest
that it won't keep pushing out the alien propaganda for its'
masters for years to come.

Nevertheless the truth is slowly starting to emerge and one
wonders exactly what will be revealed in the new batch of 1,500
pages of documents to be released to me on 1950s US discplane
projects via FOIA.

If "Updates" readers want to read something sensible on military
aircraft technologies then "UFO Revelation" is the book for you.
Forget the smears, lies and Ufologically inspired disinformation
and pay just $10 for some much-needed truth......

Tim Matthews.





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   Mar > Mar 14

              'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: Peter Robbins

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:45:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:45:26 -0500
Subject: 'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: Peter Robbins




From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

On 'Strange Days... Indeed' tonight, Peter Robbins

Join co-host Jonn Kares and I on 'Strange Days...Indeed' as we
discuss Peter's work with Budd Hopkins, his book & CD ROM
'Left At East Gate', his ufocity.com website and other ufological
interestings.


The program starts at 11:00pm EST on

1010 CFRB AM - 50,000 watts 'Clear-Channel'

6070khz Shortwave

and you can listen via your RealPlayer at:

www.cfrb.com/cfrb.ram


To call the program 'live', dial:

On-Air    416-872-1010
          1-800-561-CFRB [all over North America]
          *TALK [local mobiles]


ebk






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   Mar > Mar 14

               Re: UFOs Cause Blackout in 6 Brazilians States?

From: Christine Fernandes <pumpkim@alfa.netfly.com.br>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:53:53 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:21:03 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs Cause Blackout in 6 Brazilians States?


>From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>Subject: UFOs Cause Blackout in 6 Brazilians States?
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:49:08 -0300

>Last thursday, March 11th, 1999, at 22:00, a blackout left 6
>states of Brazil in complete darkness for 4 hours in some
>cities.

>The states of Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina, Paran=E1, S=E3o
>Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Minas Gerais, Goi=E1s, Mato Grosso e Mato
>Grosso de Sul were affected by this blackout.

>The Brazilian governmet said that lighting had struck the power
>station of Bauru, in S=E3o Paulo and caused the problem, but
>there's something strange on the air.

>Jo=E3o Carlos dos Santos, from Itu, at the time of the blackout
>went outside his house to watch the sky, which was cloudy.

>"At this moment he saw 3 stranges glowing objects. They were
>silvery and bigger than an airpalne.

>They were hovering low over nearby power cables that go
>from the hydro-electric station at Itaip=FA to S=E3o Paulo".

>"They flew in a straight direction at a high speed. They were
>zig-zagging but didn't crash each other.

>After that I was reminded about a story that a friend told me
>about UFOs over a power station during a blackout.


I'm a Brazilian citizen with some experience in the UFO
phenomena.

On that particular night I was indoors and did not witness any
unusual scenerio in the sky.

But the week before the blackout had been a pretty busy one as
far as sightings here in Rio.

If anyone either in Brazil or overseas have any other
information to share with us, since the govermnment has not yet
issued a plausible explanation for this astonishing blackout. We
would most appreciate hearing.

Thanks for your time and attention, Christine F.






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   Mar > Mar 14

                       Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:54:45 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:28:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets


>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:35:51 +1000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Nemesis <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

>>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:41:33 -0500
>>From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Betty Hill's Map of Planets
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>>....I would strongly recommend reconsidering the Zeta Reticuli
>>>interpretation of Majorie Fish in light of the more recent
>>>studies of Joachim Koch who suggest this map corresponds to our
>>>own solar system. Joachim had very pertinent arguments to
>>>justify this conclusion......

<snip>

>>...... We have presented
>>the facts - it was not Zeta Reticuli what Betty Hill had seen.
>>Best wishes
>>Joachim Koch, Berlin
>>Hans-Juergen Kyborg, Berlin

>Even a cursory glance at the "interstellar hypothesis" raises
>lots of questions. Even with highly advanced technology it is
>still one hell of a long way even to the next nearest star. At
>high velocity an interstellar craft would only have to brush a
>grain of sand and it would be blown to oblivion.

There are legitimate theories (legitimate in the sense that even
in our peewee physics, such is possible) which offer the
viability of traveling from here to there by warping time-space.

Such technology, combined with the protection of the Star Trek
star ship shields, would not even blink at a grain of sand. And
say, just what is the temperature of that sand grain, anyway?

>By contrast we live only a few light-hours away from a whole
>bunch of worlds of which some have deep oceans of water and hot
>spots.

>Did you know the Earth is uninhabitible?

I knew it! I just _knew it_!

>Long range spectroscopy
>has established that our cloud tops are at minus sixty
>centigrade. There could not be life here.

>I wonder if part of the disinformation effort has been to ask us
>to "watch the birdie" by drawing our attention to the
>ridiculously far away while ignoring the vast life-friendly
>habitat right on our doorstep.

What disinformation? The alien disinformation? On the assumption
that the adbuction experience is real, and this is an assumption
in which I tend to believe, and in light of the "information"
given during said abductions, factoring in the manner in which
some of us have been taken without our permission, probed,
sucked, impregnated, seminal vesicals emptied, etc., etc., then
I would have to assume the aliens should be taken with a grain
of salt.... er, make that _sand_! The same grain that desimated
the starship Cookoo last year. Such a tragedy. These aliens from
Mongo (they are actually from the Jovian moon "Rupture" which
has not been discovered as yet), anyway, these Mongolians were
cruising at ludicrous speed when they struck a grain of, yup,
you guessed it, a grain of sand! All aboard were disinformed and
died along with about twenty cases of Gripple.

>We are like little frogs in a puddle who have just learnt there
>are lakes a couple of hops away, while some amongst us keep
>croaking out that sure there is life, but it is way over the
>horizon. That does not compute.

It is becoming more and more likely to our database, that life
exists (or should) all over the known universe. So looking
close in _is_ indeed, just as important as looking far out.
Which is exactly what we are doing, eh? Our puny little
spacecraft explore the solar system and our puny little minds
attempt to explore the rest of the stuff. Just a side bar,
here, when I was going for my Piled High and Deep degrees, I
used that word in one of my dissertations.... "stuff"! (True).
I left the room in tears.

Imagine, Dr. Gesundt weeping!? Well, only for a short while. It
was right after that humiliating experience that I invented
Gripple.

>The ancients were not stupid. When the UFOs departed they
>watched which way they went. They identified certain types of
>craft and crew with various planets in the solar system. In
the >fullness of time I am sure this will turn out to be so,
just as >history tells us.

I've often wondered which way they went. Which way was it anyway?

>Betty Hill's friends would have been from the Jovian system.
>Which is still not much help, since that is like saying someone
>is from "Asia" or "the Pacific" only we are talking about places
>many thousandsfold larger.

>I think the Boys in Berlin have got something and they at least
>deserve fair consideration.

>Lawrie Williams______

You haff relatifs, now livingk zere?

OK. All kidding aside. There is nothing wrong with surmising,
guessing and offering opines from here to there and back... but
it does not make any sense to do so without Gripple Con Gas, sin
aiello... yellow, eee-ello..... wait, I think it's
(phonetically) _AYYELLOW_! Could be EEE-YELLOW. Not sure.
Just don't drink the water with the wine and tell them "no ice."
Our stuff is not bacteriostatic. In fact, it is a well known
fact that many bacterium thrive in Gripple. Which is why we
used to add lead.

Now we add colloidal Kreplock with just a hint of garlic.





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 14

                     Re: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'..

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:23:25 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:28:19 -0500
Subject: Re: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'..


>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'..
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:56:41 -0000

>Dear UpDates,

>It seems to me that there is no evidence to suggest
>back-engineering of aircraft at Area 51, China Lake or
>elsewhere. The fact that we are having difficulty even getting
>the US military to release some documents relating to their own
>flying disc aircraft developments (that we KNOW existed) in
>1947/8 should tell us all something.

In consideration of the fact that stealth technology was held
secret for as long as it was, in consideration of the fact that
disc aircraft, as you mentioned above, is still held in "eyes
only" status, then how can you be sure the technology does _or_
does not exist? Those disc aircraft were photographed, many of
them. We know about them because they have little value today,
in our technological scheme of things.

>The response to my new book, "UFO Revelation - The Secret
>Technology Exposed?" has been indicative of the intellectual
>malaise within Ufology whereby there are two opposing camps;

What malaise? Some believe. Some do not believe. Everyone in
between appears (to me at least) to have an open mind. So? What
is wrong with that? I will read your book because I read just
about everything I can get my hands on. Whether I agree or not
is of little relevance. As it should be with you also. What
difference does it make if you are believed by the believers and
not believed by the skeptics? Seems to me that the opposite of
the above should excite the heck out of you, as a researcher in
this field.

As for the rest of the world, the "open minds" out there... they
will not believe you one way or the other. Neither will they
believe any one else. Why should they. "Until I see the wounds
and place my hand into them, I shall not believe You are risen."
Paraphrased, it's been a long time! These folks will be
openminded until the bastards land.

>1 - The believers - who will believe almost anything as long a
>'former intelligence officer' or supposed 'insider' is putting
>out the information. The believers then pat each other on the
>back - after all they have "the truth" - and collect "EBE"
>awards at their various Conventions and continue to demonstrate
>little more than their collective gullibility........ time after
>time.

>The believers pretty much don't believe anything the government
>tells them and their postings, articles and books tie in, all
>too often, with the popular anti-government paranoia of these
>pre-millennial times.

>2 - The skeptics - whose tactics and illogic sometimes hark back
>to the worst moments of the official USAF response to UFO
>reports - 'Project Blue Book'.

>Skeptics believe that, for instance, the CIA generally told the
>truth about their handling of the UFO subject and they can be
>relied upon to debunk even the best sightings.....
>Please......!!

>So basically the rest us are left on the outside of this stale
>'debate'. My book, concentrating upon Man-Made UFOs and
>providing good evidence for their military, terrestrial origins,
>strikes at the heart of both these limited outlooks. Whilst the
>UFO community may not like my book - and will do its' best to
>ignore it - the public are not so convinced by either side.

No one can ignore fact. Many may not accept your conclusions.
Many may accept them. Excuse me, but what else are you looking
for? The seekers of wisdom and truth have not been satisfied in
a very long time, eh?

>Most people I talk to believe that there have been secret
>military aircraft flying around for 50 years and they do not
>tend to support the belief that 'aliens' are in contact with our
>governments and/or have signed a pact with them (!).

>TR-3B??

>This utter nonsense about the so-called (and pretty impossible)
>"TR-3B" is indicative of the problem we face. If it's military
>it has to invoke "anti-gravity" technology even though there is
>limited evidence to support the theory that electrogravitic
>systems have been developed and tested. We have so-called
>'insiders' babbling on about all kinds of 'alien-acquired'
>technology and we are _expected_ to believe them in advance of any
>remotely credible evidence. These insiders get basic facts about
>conventional aircraft wrong and so how can we accept their word
>on more advanced unconventional aircraft projects?

>The UFO "community" - that fractious body - has been played like
>a piano for 50 years and there is little evidence to suggest
>that it won't keep pushing out the alien propaganda for its'
>masters for years to come.

That fractious body to which you refer, appears to be your market.
Why then do you mock it in tones which appear derisive? Uh, did
I get that wrong?

>Nevertheless the truth is slowly starting to emerge and one
>wonders exactly what will be revealed in the new batch of 1,500
>pages of documents to be released to me on 1950s US discplane
>projects via FOIA.

>If "Updates" readers want to read something sensible on military
>aircraft technologies then "UFO Revelation" is the book for you.
>Forget the smears, lies and Ufologically inspired disinformation
>and pay just $10 for some much-needed truth......

>Tim Matthews.

I always read that which is printed with great respect. I try
hard not to edite with the mind of the skeptic or the believer.
I try very hard to ignore the likely financial gain associated
with the printed word, the attention the written word may bring
to the writer. I try very hard. Because it is the only way to
garner whatever salves the truth-sense in all of us. Like
reading Rimbaud, the imagery is either there or it aint. I will
read your opines similarly. As for the rest of the readers...

A nice person, a professional, someone who I respect and admire,
used the following phrase to describe some of these folks. I
told him that I would write his words down. I shall now used
them ...

"Psuedo-intellectual ... egomaniacal feces."

What a guy. And he wasn't even Drippling that day! Imagine that!?!





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 14

                       Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:54:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:46:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets


>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:35:51 +1000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Nemesis <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

>>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:41:33 -0500
>>From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Betty Hill's Map of Planets
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>>....I would strongly recommend reconsidering the Zeta Reticuli
>>>interpretation of Majorie Fish in light of the more recent
>>>studies of Joachim Koch who suggest this map corresponds to our
>>>own solar system. Joachim had very pertinent arguments to
>>>justify this conclusion......

>>>.... the point in question is : does
>>>the map represent our solar system at a given date in 1961 ? We
>>>are not considering the question where the map comes from, etc.
>>>This question should be easy to answer, no ?....

>>Well, Stan's word weighs a lot - but the planets are much
>>heavier. We have found that the map has a striking similarity
>>with the positions of the planets and the biggest and most
>>remarkable asteroids which were present at that time in that
>>certain region. It is the planetary system around the time of
>>the abduction - exactly one month later. At that time Betty's
>>nightmares vanished.

>>...... We have presented
>>the facts - it was not Zeta Reticuli what Betty Hill had seen.


>Even a cursory glance at the "interstellar hypothesis" raises
>lots of questions. Even with highly advanced technology it is
>still one hell of a long way even to the next nearest star. At
>high velocity an interstellar craft would only have to brush a
>grain of sand and it would be blown to oblivion.

>By contrast we live only a few light-hours away from a whole
>bunch of worlds of which some have deep oceans of water and hot
>spots.

>Did you know the Earth is uninhabitible? Long range spectroscopy
>has established that our cloud tops are at minus sixty
>centigrade. There could not be life here.

>I wonder if part of the disinformation effort has been to ask us
>to "watch the birdie" by drawing our attention to the
>ridiculously far away while ignoring the vast life-friendly
>habitat right on our doorstep.

>We are like little frogs in a puddle who have just learnt there
>are lakes a couple of hops away, while some amongst us keep
>croaking out that sure there is life, but it is way over the
>horizon. That does not compute.

>The ancients were not stupid. When the UFOs departed they
>watched which way they went. They identified certain types of
>craft and crew with various planets in the solar system.  In the
>fullness of time I am sure this will turn out to be so, just as
>history tells us.

>Betty Hill's friends would have been from the Jovian system.
>Which is still not much help, since that is like saying someone
>is from "Asia" or "the Pacific" only we are talking about places
>many thousandsfold larger.

>I think the Boys in Berlin have got something and they at least
>deserve fair consideration.

I would point out that in about 1520 Magellan's ship took about
2 years to go around the Earth. In the 19th century the goal was
around the world in 80 days. Not too many years ago it took
several days to circumnavigate the globe in an airplane. Now the
shuttle does it in 90 minutes.

It takes roughly one year at 1G acceleration to get close to
the speed of light (c). At 99.9% of c, one can go 37 Light Years
in 20 months pilot time. At 99.99%c it only takes 6 months. and
remember that Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli are about a billion
years older than the sun and are less than a light year apart.
In the early 1960s at Aerojet General Nucleonics we were working
on fusion propulsion systems  which could exhaust charged
particles having 10 million times as much energy per particle as
in a chemical rocket. Don't forget Friedman's law: Technological
Progress comes from doing things differently  in an
unpredictable way..

I will be talking about this in detail at The Intruders
Conference in NYC on Saturday, April 10

(see www.if-aic.com/conference.htm )
or call 212 645 5278
or write
IF,
POB 30233,
NY, NY 10011

On a cosmic scale ZR is just around the corner.





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 15

                           UFO Footage from STS-61

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:17:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:17:34 -0500
Subject: UFO Footage from STS-61



Source: Jeff Rense's Sightings Homepage

http://www.sightings.com/ufo2/ufohubble.htm


UFO Footage from STS-61 - The Hubble Telescope Repair Mission
By Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Director - The Millenium Project

3-12-99

An Exclusive Report From The Millennium Project

In light of recent new interest in and coverage of the
incredible yet controversial UFO video footage from the space
shuttle STS-48 and STS-80 missions, I have decided to re-release
some related information on footage from another misson, STS-61,
the famous Hubble Telescope Repair Mission in December, 1993.
TMP is in possession of footage from this mission, all recorded
from the live NASA feed, which is similar in many aspects to the
footage from the two previously mentioned missions.

Please note that this case was made public and available to
anyone who was interested at the time, although we didn't have
the internet and web accessibility that we do now. As mentioned
below, we received little or no response at the time. A few days
ago I read the recent news posting by Bill Hamilton of Skywatch
International regarding similar lack of response to their
initial discovery of the STS-80 footage back in 1996, portions
of which were just aired on NBC's Confirmation special on
February 17, 1999. After viewing the tape again, I decided that
perhaps it was time to "re-open" the case as it were, given the
similarities between what was videotaped in all three missons,
in order to increase public exposure and perhaps finally get
proper analysis done. As with STS-80 and STS-48, this footage is
compelling, even if not "conclusive". It will be praised by some
and slammed by others, I am sure.

A brief summary:

I was formerly the Vancouver director for MUFON / UFO*BC at the
time, 1993 (I have since become an independent researcher,
founder of The Millennium Project, although I am still also the
Canadian director for Circles Phenomenon Research Canada), when
an associate of mine who was a programming manager at one of our
local cable TV stations, and also a (former) MUFON investigator,
alerted me to some footage he had downloaded from the Hubble
Telescope Repair Mission. The entire live NASA feed was
recorded, and virtually every second of the footage was scanned,
looking for anything unusual.

There are at least 13 "events" showing possible unusual
activity. All of these I still have on an original
station-produced dupe of the special broadcast he set up for one
of our local cable programs. One sequence shows a "disc" with
dark centre (similar to STS-80). Other sequences show variations
of "strobing" or "pulsating" lights. They appear to "flash" on
and off in a more or less regular pattern, unlike (?) tumbling
space junk and often appear to maintain position relative to the
shuttle / telescope. Verification of this would require detailed
analysis. If you watch carefully the footage from STS-80 of the
three objects close together in space near the earth's limb
you'll notice that one of the object which is moving appears to
"pulsate". This is similar to some of the footage from STS-61.
Other sequences show fast or very slow moving objects moving
across the picture, in one instance resembling "projectiles".


Event #1: Bright, fast moving object crossing view of Earth in
nightime shot over Gulf of Mexico

Event #2: Bright "flashes" below shuttle, over Houston area.
(Probably lightning?).

Event #3: Two fast moving "projectiles" move diagonally across
screen, one following the other, in similar trajectory and
direction and at (apparently) similar speed.

Event #4: One bright object moving horizontally across screen,
another light "flashing" in distance, out beyond (?) the
telescope itself (view of telescope in distance after it was
released from shuttle).

Event #5: Slow moving light "flashing" out past shuttle (view of
open cargo bay). Second object "flashing" brightly. Third (non
flashing) object slowly approaches the second flashing object.
Limb of earth now in clear view; no stars are visible in
background.

Event #6: Bright, slow moving object approaches limb of earth.
Night time shot (low light camera). Background stars appear to
move "away" from limb of earth; object moves in opposite
direction.

Event #7: Dim "flashing" light in space behind astronauts
working on telescope.

Event #8: Three or four "strobing" lights out beyond telescope.
Another bright object on other side of screen.

Event #9: (when camera cuts away from event #8) Couple of
objects moving behind astronauts as they work on telescope.

Event #10: (when camera cuts back again to view in event #8) Two
objects "strobing", in an alternating manner and maintaining
position; third dimmer object moving away from them. Telescope
in full view.

Event #11: Bright object moving slowly behind astronauts working
on telescope.

Event #12: Bright object near limb of earth, slowly moving
downward.

Event #13: "Disk" with dark centre seen as camera zooms in on
region of space near earth. Camera artifact? Similar to footage
from STS-80.

These events were sometimes filmed during periods of little or
no shuttle activity and often the camera will pan off when
events are occurring.

I don't know if anyone else has documented the same footage we
did or not. I have heard of very little coverage by anybody of
any of this except for an occassional passing reference to
possibly some odd footage from this mission, but no detailed
reports, etc. In any case, as with Bill Hamilton, we also "put
out the word" on this, and sent out a few VHS copies to select
researchers, and received little if any response other than
mostly local interest. We subsequently moved on to other things,
and the matter was relegated to the sidelines and then
eventually forgotten. We considered the footage to probably not
be as possibly significant as first thought, given the lack of
feedback.

After subsequent viewing, I don't necessarily agree with all
assessments made in the taped program (as presented by my
associate); I do feel though that a number of these "events" are
unusual enough to warrant further investigation, in particular
the "strobing" effects and "projectiles". Also, my former
associate is no longer involved in this research and dropped out
of the whole "UFO scene" some time ago.

At this time, I do not have the software to put still frames or
clips from the video on the web site. However,viewing this
footage, a copy can be made available or a viewing session may
be arranged. TMP is seeking qualified video analysis experts to
examine this footage; preliminary arrangements for this on one
front are being made via researchers Bill Hamilton and Tom King;
anyone else interested in doing analysis or know of someone who
can, please contact me.


Paul Anderson Director The Millennium Project
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 15

                    Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:06:20 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:21:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be


>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 05:08:36 -0800
>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial

>>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial
>>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:15:13 -0500

>>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 04:46:31 -0800
>>>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial

>>>Fellow Updates members,

>>>On Tuesday my new edition of MUFON Journal arrived.

Would this be the April -- as in April Fool -- number?

>After many years as a MUFON field examiner, state section
>director (3 counties at once), starting MUFON chapters, etc., I
>now have to consider the leader - king being just another hoaxer
>to hurt ufology. Walt, if you have purposely perpetrated a cheap
>hoax you are one misguided person. You need help right now.
>MUFON should bring a great board back together and change
>course.

>So Walt, if there is a real skeleton, put up. If there isn't,
>shut up, and may your eyes never lift above the level of shame.

>Josh Goldstein

--
John Rimmer
www.magonia.demon.co.uk
Abandon hope all ye who press Enter here







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 15

                               Alien/UFO Games

From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:40:21 PST
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:22:47 -0500
Subject: Alien/UFO Games


Hi All,

I thought this may be of interest to some. It is a link to a
games download page that has a few alien/UFO games.

Regards,
Leanne  ];-)


Get Alienated!

Had it up to here with White-House-destroying, saucer-flying,
home-phoning aliens? Get revenge on those invaders.

http://www.zdnet.com/swlib/hotfiles/alien.html







                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 15

                     Re: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'..

From: Judith Dale <judithdale@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:46:25 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:27:31 -0500
Subject: Re: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'..


>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'..
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:56:41 -0000

Greetings Tim,

Tim, you've raised some intriguing points here. I've inserted my
comments.

>Dear UpDates,

>It seems to me that there is no evidence to suggest
>back-engineering of aircraft at Area 51, China Lake or
>elsewhere. The fact that we are having difficulty even getting
>the US military to release some documents relating to their own
>flying disc aircraft developments (that we KNOW existed) in
>1947/8 should tell us all something.

I need some clarification here. Are you saying that none of the
supposed evidence regarding evidence of 'back-engineered'
aircraft is valid? I'm asking merely in an attempt to clear some
of the confusion I have on this issue. Perhaps, the difficulty
in obtaining documents on the subject is because the info is
still highly classified, or just doesn't exist.

>The response to my new book, "UFO Revelation - The Secret
>Technology Exposed?" has been indicative of the intellectual
>malaise within Ufology whereby there are two opposing camps;

>1 - The believers - who will believe almost anything as long a
>'former intelligence officer' or supposed 'insider' is putting
>out the information.......

<snip>

>The believers pretty much don't believe anything the government
>tells them and their postings, articles and books tie in, all
>too often, with the popular anti-government paranoia of these
>pre-millennial times.

>2 - The skeptics - whose tactics and illogic sometimes hark back
>to the worst moments of the official USAF response to UFO
>reports - 'Project Blue Book'.

>Skeptics believe that, for instance, the CIA generally told the
>truth about their handling of the UFO subject and they can be
>relied upon to debunk even the best sightings.....
>Please......!!

I'm a 'believer', yet I also have a skeptical bent. I don't
necessarily believe what an individual 'former intelligence
officer/insider' has to say. My understanding is that, unless
that person was at the very top of the heap, what they know is
only on a 'need to know' basis. So, if the piece they bring is
true, it is only one piece. Further, they may have been given a
cover story themselves. Our task is to attempt to put all of
the pieces together, into some sort of coherent whole.

While I don't suffer from any sort of 'pre-millennial' fever, I
don't necessarily believe the government spin doctors. Seems to
be plenty of evidence, indicating that the US
government/military is more secretive on this subject, than
other governments. Yet, even certain US agencies admit that they
have no explanation for some events.

>So basically the rest us are left on the outside of this stale
>'debate'. My book, concentrating upon Man-Made UFOs and
>providing good evidence for their military, terrestrial origins,
>strikes at the heart of both these limited outlooks. Whilst the
>UFO community may not like my book - and will do its' best to
>ignore it - the public are not so convinced by either side.

I do agree that some folks seem quite entrenched in their
particular view, yet, I have to hope that open minds will
prevail. Do I hear some 'sour grapes'?

>Most people I talk to believe that there have been secret
>military aircraft flying around for 50 years and they do not
>tend to support the belief that 'aliens' are in contact with our
>governments and/or have signed a pact with them (!).

I am quite sure that experimental craft have been flown,
however, in my opinion, that fact doesn't quite cover all of the
sightings that have occured. As to the 'pact with aliens', I'm
not personally privy to the veracity of that item. But, why
should that possibility be any more impossible than any of the
others, really ?

>TR-3B??

>This utter nonsense about the so-called (and pretty impossible)
>"TR-3B" is indicative of the problem we face. If it's military
>it has to invoke "anti-gravity" technology even though there is
>limited evidence to support the theory that electrogravitic
>systems have been developed and tested. We have so-called
>'insiders' babbling on about all kinds of 'alien-acquired'
>technology and we are _expected_ to believe them in advance of any
>remotely credible evidence. These insiders get basic facts about
>conventional aircraft wrong and so how can we accept their word
>on more advanced unconventional aircraft projects?

Well, if one 'believes' what is posted on NASA's Jet Propulsion
Lab's site, plenty of scientist type folk are working diligently
away on 'anti-gravity' technology, as well as others, in an
attempt to create FTL space flight.

>The UFO "community" - that fractious body - has been played like
>a piano for 50 years and there is little evidence to suggest
>that it won't keep pushing out the alien propaganda for its'
>masters for years to come.

Maybe, we have. The question is, by whom? Just whose propaganda
is it?

>Nevertheless the truth is slowly starting to emerge and one
>wonders exactly what will be revealed in the new batch of 1,500
>pages of documents to be released to me on 1950s US discplane
>projects via FOIA.

>If "UpDates" readers want to read something sensible on military
>aircraft technologies then "UFO Revelation" is the book for you.
>Forget the smears, lies and Ufologically inspired disinformation
>and pay just $10 for some much-needed truth......

Tim, your book sounds interesting. But, is your posting merely
an ad? I've responded, because you raised some points that I





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 15

                            Re: Zecharia Sitchin

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:49:29 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:29:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin


>From: Melanie Mecca <natural.state@erols.com>
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:49:59 -0800
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin

>>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 02:13:52 -0800
>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Zecharia Sitchin?

><snip>

>>This is not the sort of environment I would recommend as the
>>birthplace of microbes, let alone higher species leading up to
>>the godlike 'Annunaki'.

>>With the Sitchin's 12th planet either pulled apart or thrown out
>>of the solar system entirely, we have a Valhalla only a mother
>>could love.

>You can pose that challenge in person at the Baltimore Whole
>Life Expo, on Sunday March 21 at the Baltimore Convention
>Center.  1-888-999-4531 for tickets or www.wholelife.com.

>He's doing a workshop at 1PM and the text states "In this
>groundbreaking presentation, Sitchin wil bring to light new
>knowledge that was secret - revealed only to initiates and
>prophets."

>Melanie Mecca

Now I know where I will not be on 21 March 99. Actually, I
couldn't be there even if I wanted to.

I hope the knowledge brought to light, previously revealed only
to initiates and prophets, is as novel as Sitchin's planetary
revelations have been so far.

Sitchin is probably more interesting than the other speakers
listed:

Dannion Brinkley;
J. Van Praagh : ( Talking to Heaven );
Stacy Wolf  :   ( Psychic Living );
Doreen Virtue : ( Divine Guidance );   .. and so on.

No,  I think I'll stay home.    Thanks anyway.

Best wishes

-  Larry Hatch







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   Mar > Mar 15

                  Alien Skeleton - Hoax or History - update

From: Jimmie L. Holman <holman@holman.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:38:46 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:56:08 -0500
Subject: Alien Skeleton - Hoax or History - update

[Non-Subscriber Post]

Dear UpDates friends and family,

Since the first post of this 'controversy' here on UpDates .. I
have received numerous phone calls, e-mail, and other
correspondences asking me to comment or elaborate on what I had
known of this topic. This, not so much to dispute any of the
claims made in the mufon article, but rather to direct to
information, circumstances, and revelations associated with the
'unveiling' that occurred in December.

I _must_ state ... I am _not_ a member of MUFON and have _not_
seen the MUFON article in question. I do know many fine and
dedicated MUFON Associates.

I, immediately after the 'unveiling' in December, placed as much
information as possible on my website to share with others.

Note: The site itself was running terribly slowly at times due
to a server-related problem. This should have partially been
corrected now and performance should increase multi-fold when my
DEC Alpha www.ufon.org system comes on-line shortly. Between my
birthday celebrations, being out of town, and work on the soon
to be new server, this is the first chance I've had to respond.

The narration contained within those pages probably best gives
an overview of the events that transpired.

www.holman.net/ufo/alienskeleton/

or

www.ufon.org/alienskeleton

or

www.alienhunter.org

All rights to distribute and post contents of those pages
without modification is granted. This narration is important!

What may or may not be obvious was that MUFON definitely
presented this as a real artifact at a MUFON sponsored
event/meeting.

I have irrefutable proof of that in the form of audio tape made
that evening as well.

I have not made these tapes (now partially burned to CD)
available because they contained irrefutable slanderous material
related to both this and other parties.

At _no_ time did I ever find _any_any indication that the late
Professor Slaughter _ever_ attempted to perpetrate any type of
HOAX. On the contrary ... I believe it was probably something
for the Professor's _own_private_ therapy and amusement.

In his long productive lifetime, he better than most anyone had
the resources to test, document, explore and evangelize this if
it were a 'real' find without embarrassment.

In the assessment of one of the UpDates replies: Greg Sandow
wrote:

>The skeleton is a fake, but a delightful one.

I have read Slaughter's book and found it very amusing the way
it was intended ... but also understood the points about
thinking, myth and reality - the way I believe the Professor
intended. I did not speculate regarding motives of his family
and MUFON but I do understand that it was the Professors' wife
that originally contacted MUFON regarding this and mentioned in
one of the posts This fact was disclosed to me _by_ MUFON.

I have received 'disappointing' phone calls and rather 'ugly'
e-mail from the MUFON state director and associates regarding the
posting of this site. (Not surprised over that!)

Private interview of numerous individuals who were allowed into
the gathering _all_ stated in their own words to the effect that
it was _definately_ presented by MUFON as a real artifact. They
also, without exception, inferred that after examination it
simply didn't even look real.

The 'blocking' and interception by MUFON of attempts to get test
samples or even discuss the issues with those closest and in
possession of the artifact were probably the biggest 'giveaway'
that something might be amiss.

Even in the days of December from the e-mail of one of the MUFON
persons closest to the event tried AFTERWARDS (after my
embarrassing post) to get me to believe it was 'not' real. At
that time I couldn't understand their motive.... my suspicion
was then and I now know it was probably true... that they
planned on 'pushing' this off on the public.

My main and _only_ purpose for the 'Alien Skeleton - Hoax or
History' pages ware simply as a wake up call for ourselves. The
very best tool we have is our own healthy skepticism and logical
deduction ... for it is through the close and detailed
examination of all the materials we can come across will we ever
be able get our hands on substantial data and evidence.
Corruption and distraction of our focus, time and resources by
an organization the purports to have common goals in my opinion
is a disgrace.

I couldn't agree with Josh Goldstein more when he said:

>So Walt, if there is a real skeleton, put up. If there
>isn't,shut up, and may your eyes never lift above the level of
>shame.

I have had my sincere doubts about the integrity of that
organization at the 'top'. Perhaps it, like other infiltrated
organizations of the past, have outlived their usefulness.

Within and outside MUFON there are far too many sincere,
qualified people, organizations, and discussion groups as this
and other to let this act as a 'stain on _our_ dress' so to
speak.

With the advent and resources of the Internet, it is becoming
more and more easy to exchange, transfer, compare, and obtain
information. This mailing list is probably one of the _best_
examples of that ... and probably represents at least one of the
more positive 'trends'.

I think we should not lose our focus... simply accept, note and
_investigate_ ... hopefully a bit better than what has been done
here in the case of Slaughter's 'Alien Skeleton'.

I am aware of... and hopefully soon we will see something
_real_. The quest is as much fun as the discovery. I would be
happy to answer any specific questions directed to me.


Please ... Keep up the great work here on UpDates!

****************************************************************
Jimmie L. Holman  holman@holman.net
www.holman.net, www.ufon.org, www.ufotechnology.com,
www.alienhunter.org , www.holman.net/holman/first/
Channel Manager - Undernet Internet Relay Chat Channel #UFO
UFOlogy Society, Inc (North Texas Support Group)
United UFO Network (Dallas/Ft. Worth Discussion Group)

****************************************************************
Come visit ..... y'all !





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   Mar > Mar 15

                       Search For E.T. Springs Forward

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 04:49:18 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:32:32 -0500
Subject: Search For E.T. Springs Forward


Source: MSNBC,

http://www.msnbc.com/news/247869.asp

Stig

***

Search for E.T. springs forward

Scientists turn to the world's biggest 'ear' and the Internet

[*Audio] Project director David Anderson explains how SETI@home
software would work. This is a prototype screen shot. Click on
the image to hear the sounds of space. (Audio courtesy
SETI@home)

By Alan Boyle MSNBC

March 12 =97  Scientists are taking their decades-long quest to
find for signals from alien civilizations to its higher level
yet, with new software and a renewed search campaign. Within
just a few weeks, the effort could involve more than 250,000
people =97 arguably forming the biggest scientific team in
history.

**

THE FIRST EXTRAVAGANZA is a double-header at the world's largest
telescope, beginning Monday: In a repeat of last September's
first dual campaign, both receivers on the 1,000-foot Arecibo
radio telescope in Puerto Rico will be used simultaneously in
the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, known as SETI.

So far, there have been no confirmed broadcasts from E.T., and
it's unlikely that the new SETI initiatives will crack the case.
But you never know: "It's always possible that we'll establish
contact with E.T. in the next couple of weeks," said Seth
Shostak, an astronomer at the SETI Institute.

Dan Werthimer, principal investigator for Project Serendip, said
he expects the search to yield success after another 20 to 50
years.

[*Audio] "I'm optimistic that we will eventually make contact
with other civilizations, probably in our lifetimes," he said.


PRIME-TIME SCHEDULE


The California-based SETI Institute will use the main radio
receivers for Project Phoenix, a targeted search of 1,000 stars
considered most likely to show signs of life. After years of
observations, Project Phoenix has gotten a third of the way
through its list. Over the next two weeks the researchers will
resume the slow, methodical progress of monitoring each star for
hours at a time.

The project checks about 2 billion separate radio channels for
each star. Last September marked Project Phoenix's first
two-week session at the Arecibo telescope, and Shostak said the
experience taught the researchers a lesson about "life in the
big city these days =97 or should I say, life in the tropics these
days."

[*Audio] "There were some chunks of the microwave spectrum there
... where it was just impossible for us to do any meaningful
observations," he said, due to the increasing cacophony of
telecommunications satellites.

[*Audio] Nevertheless, Arecibo figures into Project Phoenix's
strategy for the next two or three years, Shostak said. The
researchers will continue through their list, and by the time
they're finished looking at the 1,000 prime targets, a new
telescope system known as the 1HT may be ready for prime time,
he said.

The new system would "speed this thing up by a factor of 1,000
or more," Shostak said.


ALL SETI, ALL THE TIME


Meanwhile, Arecibo's other receiver is being used independently
by Project Serendip, conducted by Werthimer's team at the
University of California at Berkeley.

[*Audio] Werthimer said the project monitors 167 million
channels every second, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. While
SETI does a slow, thorough analysis of selected targets,
Serendip's "piggyback" receiver can simultaneously do a quick
scan of the whole sky for promising blips.

"I like the mix of strategies," Werthimer said.

Werthimer said progress was also being made on yet another
strategy in the SETI search: looking for transmissions in the
optical spectrum from distant stars, such as bursts of laser
light. Scientists at Berkeley, Harvard University and other
institutions are scanning the skies for short, brilliant bursts
of light as well as steady beams, he said. Berkeley's optical
SETI program plans to check 2,500 stars over the next year or
two.

"We're really just getting into gear," Werthimer said.


INTERNET TO THE RESCUE


All SETI projects actually rely on computers to do the heavy
lifting, and right now, the computers represent the biggest
bottleneck.

[*Audio] "Even though Serendip is probably the world's largest
supercomputer," Werthimer said, "it still is not able to find
the very weak signals, and it doesn't look for a wide variety of
signal types."

That's where you and about a quarter-million other computer
users can play a part. Over the past four years or so, Werthimer
and others have been working on a way to network desktop
computers over the Internet for distributed analysis of SETI
data. It's analogous to the techniques used to solve encryption
puzzles, using tens of thousands of computers.

The software they developed, SETI@home, is designed to work as a
screen-saver or a background application. It would download a
batch of data from Arecibo, analyze it, then send the results
back to Berkeley. SETI professionals would follow up on any
promising blips.

In geek-speak, the 300KB batch represents about two minutes of
data from a frequency band 10KHz wide. The entire SETI@home
project is designed to monitor about 2.5MHz of the radio
spectrum =97 only about half the bandwidth used by one television
channel, and a 40th of the bandwidth monitored by Serendip. But
that relatively small wedge of bandwidth would be subjected to
intense analysis.

About 250,000 people have signed up to receive an e-mail alert
when SETI@home is ready for prime time =97 and the list is growing
by about 1,000 addresses a day, Werthimer said.

Werthimer said a company of about 100 beta testers would be
expanded to a battalion of 1,000 in the next week or so. The
current schedule calls for Windows and Unix versions of the
client software in late April or early May, and a Mac version
soon afterward.

If 250,000 computer users actually download the software and use
it, that would make SETI@home the world's largest experiment in
distributed computing, said David McNett, co-founder of
Distributed.Net.

"It gets more difficult as the numbers get higher," McNett said.
His project, aimed at solving encryption challenges and
demonstrating the power of distributed computing, has attracted
about 150,000 users during about two years of operation, with
60,000 users currently active.

SETI@home's project director, David Anderson, acknowledges that
there's a question mark about "the ability of our server side =97
the software and the hardware resources we have =97 to support the
demand of what could potentially be several hundred thousand
people banging on the thing at once."

The challenges won't end even when the technical kinks are
worked out of the system, McNett said. One of the biggest
long-term challenges will be keeping people interested in a
search that could take years or decades, with no certain
"solution" at the end. That goes for SETI@home in particular =97
and the SETI search in general.

"The psychological hurdles are actually the hardest ones to
reach," McNett said.

Keep checking MSNBC on the Internet in the weeks ahead for
dispatches from the SETI Institute's Seth Shostak in Arecibo.
Shostak is the author of "Sharing the Universe: Perspectives on
Extraterrestrial Life."


Conditions and Privacy =A9 1999










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   Mar > Mar 15

                        ET Hunters Return To Arecibo

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 04:04:30 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:30:56 -0500
Subject: ET Hunters Return To Arecibo


Source: Discovery (Channel) Online,

http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/brief1.html?ct=3D36ec8c4f

Stig

***

ET Hunters Return to Arecibo

**

The world's most methodical search for extraterrestrial
intelligence resumes this weekend at Puerto Rico's Arecibo
Observatory, home of a one-of-a-kind 1,000-foot radio telescope,
the most sophisticated listening device in the known universe.

Just one minute of celestial observation with the Arecibo dish
is worth 1,000 minutes of time spent during the SETI Institute's
previous search for ET using a 140-foot radio telescope in Green
Bank, W. Va., says astronomer Seth Shostak.

Project Phoenix, as the current targeted search for
extraterrestrials is called, is returning to Arecibo after a
six-month hiatus. Observations are scheduled to begin Sunday
night and continue through early April.

Engineers have been on site for two weeks, installing a backup
generator, replacing computer boards and checking the
fantastically complex system of sensors, receivers and databases
that comb incoming radio waves for signs of artificiality, the
theoretica l signature of technically advanced aliens.

"Once power was up, we started to test the system. It went
fairly smoothly. We now have the system close to being ready for
observations," says SETI engineer Kevin Day.

With work progressing well, the SETI team has had time for a
little sight-seeing.

"So far we have seen more of Puerto Rico in one week than we did
in all of the past trips. Hopefully this means we are getting
our equipment under more control," says Day.

Shostak and the other scientists, who arrive Sunday, are
optimistic, but they still expect their share of glitches.

"I don't expect to go down there and be bored," says Shostak.
"It's never happened."


By Irene Brown, Discovery Online News


Related Stories:

*Search for ET Begins at Home

*Eavesdropping on ET


DISCOVERY ONLINE


Picture: Irene Brown

Copyright =A9 1999 Discovery Communications Inc.








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   Mar > Mar 15

                Re: {100} Part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:50:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:36:31 -0500
Subject: Re: {100} Part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network


>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:16:19 +0000
>From: Lloyd Bayliss <lloyd@POWER-AGE.DEMON.CO.UK>
>Subject: {100} Part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>To: UFO@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU


>The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
>subscribers in over 58 countries.


<snip>

---

>Interview With Tim Matthews

>Special guest on UK.UFO.NW - IRC - #UFO channel

>The below text is a log of the United Kingdom UFO Network -IRC-
>(internet relay chat) meeting held on Saturday 20th February 1999.
>Tim Matthews kindly gave up a few hours of his time to answer
>questions from visitors to our dedicated UFO channel.

<snip>

><Tedric> tim, what unexplain ufo sightings do you think really are
>UFOs?>

><T_Matthew> Hmmm. I'm not sure there are any really "unexplained" cases
>as such. There are intriguing ones but the more one looks for answers -
>the role of the researcher - the more one finds sensible solutions. My
>research is helping to explain cases like Muroc Field (1947) and
>McMinnville and only yesterday I learned that farmer Paul Trent believed
>that he'd photographed a secret military aircraft in 1950 - not an


Amusing, regarding Trent case....which, if Matthews is correct,
would make the Trent photos the best evidence of US built
circular craft propelled by...? (the Trents heard no noise)

Ironic:  "dyed in the wool skeptics" would say that Paul Trent's
statement that he thought it was a new Air Force aricraft was a
way for that clever hoaxer to make people think the sighting
was real.

HAHAHAHAHA

Silly Paul.

Tim Mathews saw through the non-deception immediately when he
realized that Paul was telling the truth.

I wonder if Tim can convince Klass and Shaeffer that Trent saw a
US made flying disc.








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                Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:50:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:39:37 -0500
Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network


>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:17:49 +0000
>From: Lloyd Bayliss <lloyd@POWER-AGE.DEMON.CO.UK>
>To: UFO@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
>Subject: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network


>INTERVIEW OF TIM MATHHEWS:

><Assassin> ask him this if you don't believe then why are there
>thousands of ppl claiming they have been ubducted by aliens

><T_Matthew> There are not thousands of people - just a bunch of
>well-paid story tellers and believers telling you this. These

Well paid story tellers? The abductees? Better tell them.
They're still waiting for that first paycheck

<snip>

><JeroenW> Tim, have you researched the M-12 stuff, ultimately coming
>to the conclusion that its all rubbish?

><T_Matthew> Yes, I've got all the documents (well nearly all) and spent
>a great deal of time looking into them and asking people all the
>difficult questions. To me the thing starts off with a lie; "On 24th
>June 1947....Kenneth Arnold saw 9 flying discs". No he didn't. There

Huh?  He didn't see 9 flying discs?  Then what did Arnold report?








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   Mar > Mar 15

              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:50:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:46:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed


>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:10:26 +1000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Lawrie Williams <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

>>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:19:39 -0500
>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<snip>

>>People at the cutting edge of physics don't know how to do
>>"gravity reduction" or "anti-gravity", yet Fouche would have us

>Minus 120 centigrade is achievable and well within the known
>range of superconductivity. I have no trouble accepting that a
>dense metal vapour at that temperature could do to gravity what
>a faraday cage does to electromagnetism. >

I don't dispute the possibility of achieving low temperature
superconductivity. The question is, what theoretical or
experimental evidence is that that a "dense metal vapor" at such
a low temperature would shield gravity.

And what would it shield, a volume/region inside the metal
vapor? By the way... I suspect that any metal vapor would
condense and no longer be a vapor at -120C. The vapor pressure
for any metal is very very low at -120 C.







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   Mar > Mar 15

                  Center for [UFO] Physical Trace Research

From: Bob Soetebierb <bikebob@mo.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:55:22 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:48:19 -0500
Subject: Center for [UFO] Physical Trace Research


Be sure to check out Ted Phillip's excellent, new, UFO-related
"Center for Physical Trace Research" web site at:

http://www.angelfire.com/mo/cptr

Ted Phillips is the world's leading in-the-field (literally)
expert on UFO physical-trace research.  Ted is currently both
the Co-Assistant Director for Missouri MUFON, and the Director
of Physical Trace Research for MUFON International.

Ted Phillips (along with Antonio Huneeus) has been added to the
now-scheduled "feature speaker" list for Lou Farish's April 9 -
11 Ozark UFO Conference (OUFOC) at the Best Western Inn of the
Ozarks in Eureka Springs, Arkansas. --- For more info on the
OUFOC, check out the info found at this specific link/URL:

   Linkname: The 11th Annual Ozark UFO Conference

http://www.sightings.com/1.tempitems/ufoconf.html


BTW...Ted has just informed me earlier this evening that he will
be doing a live/on-air guest interview on Tues., April 6, 1999,
on Jeff Rense's "Sightings On The Radio".  For more information,
see:

http://www.sightings.com


Take care,


Bob Soetebier

St. Louis County, Missouri


    Tailwinds to you...            See you ON the road!

    /// BICYCLE BOB ///            bikebob@mo.net








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   Mar > Mar 15

                  Where Has All the Bromine Gone, Long Time

From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:07:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:50:33 -0500
Subject: Where Has All the Bromine Gone, Long Time


Recently there was a thread concerning the Billy Meier contactee
story and Bromine, Chlorine, CFCs and their relationship to the
ozone layer.

The following article which appeared in the NY Times today
provides a background on some of the scientific and economic
issues involved.

Gary


New York Times National New March 14, 1999  Page 24

Peach Oil May Work as Pesticide

Effective Natural Substances Could Replace Toxic Compounds

By JOHN H. CUSHMAN Jr.

WASHINGTON, March 13 -- Government scientists have found that
the harmless natural oil that gives peaches their perfume also
kills fungus and other pests in the soil and could replace
methyl bromide, a widely used pesticide that is toxic to people
and also damages the planet's protective ozone layer.

The peachy compound, called benzaldehyde, is manufactured
synthetically. It is already used commercially in perfumes,
flavorings, drugs and dyes, as are many other similar oils, like
those distilled from lemon and peppermint.

Scientists at the Agricultural Research Service, along with
colleagues in South Africa and Israel have been screening these
natural chemicals for several years to see if they can be
substituted for more dangerous man-made compounds. The essence
of peach looks like an especially promising candidate, said
Charles L. Wilson, a plant pathologist at the agency's
Appalachian Fruit Research Station in Kearneysville, W.Va.

His team developed a laboratory method for testing the extract
against some of the most important pests that methyl bromide
attacks and when it proved effective the~ developed a new
approach for, applying benzaldehyde onto soil using granules of
activated charcoal saturated with the fragrant chemical.

If field tests prove successful, the scientists hope, it could
be a significant breakthrough in ridding the world of methyl
bromide. Like other chemicals such as CFCs, or
chlorofluorocarbons, methyl bromide is supposed to be phased out
under the Montreal Protocol, a 1987 treaty. The ozone layer is
important because it shields the earth from the sun's
ultraviolet rays, which cause cancer and other environmental
harm.

But last year, bowing to protests by farmers who said that it
was impossible for the United States to end methyl bromide's use
as scheduled in 2001, Congress gave the industry until 2005 to
do so.

Even with the delay, its use next year is supposed to be 25
percent less than the amount used in 1990, and methyl bromide
use is supposed to decrease rapidly over the next few years.

That has alarmed many farmers, especially those like California
strawberry growers and Florida tomato growers who use the
chemical most extensively. Every year, they cover their fields
with plastic suits and workers inject the gas under the sheets.
Some of it soaks into the soil; some of it escapes into the
atmosphere.

Dr. Wilson said in an interview that he doubted that any single
compound, like the peach oil, would be a "magic bullet" to
replace methyl bromide. But he said he was optimistic that
combinations of naturally occurring chemicals, along with other
changes in farming methods, would provide important benefits.

"There is such a broad range of these things that are in nature
already, and there has not been that much effort yet in trying
to fish them out," he said. "The synthetic compounds were so
powerful that we stopped looking for natural pesticides."

He said that oils of wintergreen and clove might also prove
useful.

Not only does the peach essence kill off pathogens like Fusarium
oxysporum, Rhizoctonia solani, Pythium aphanidermatum, and
Sclerotinia minor, the researchers found, but it seems to favor
other, beneficial organisms in the soil that then continue to
muscle out the unwanted pests.

Agricultural scientists have been exploring many different
substitutes for methyl bromide, but most of them have been
synthetic chemicals that, while they do not damage the ozone
layer, are not entirely harmless.

Kert Davies, a researcher at the Environmental Working Group,
which lobbies against pesticide use, said that the burgeoning
research into natural alternatives to synthetic chemicals had
broad implications for agriculture. "Replacing methyl bromide is
like a moon mission," he said. "We are discovering all these
other things. We are discovering the Tang of agriculture -
farmers who never even thought of using methyl bromide are going
to get the spinoffs."

But he criticized the Agriculture Department for not moving even
faster to come up with alternatives, and said some farmers have
been reluctant to test alternatives because they find continuing
to use methyl bromide simpler, given that Congress is willing to
extend its use.

Thomas Duafala, the chief of research at Trical, a company in
Hollister, Calif., that applies methyl bromide and other
pesticides on farms, said that it might take years to get
regulatory approval for any new pesticide, and he said it was
hard to come up with any single substitute as powerful and
effective as methyl bromide for treating soils.

"People have been looking for alternatives to methyl bromide as
long as I have been involved with methyl bromide, which is 20
years," Mr. Duafala said. "Will this result in something useful
down the road) I don't know, but there are a lot of ideas to be
explored, and this is exciting.

"Hopefully, we will be able to come up with several things," he
said. "But it will not happen in the immediate future."






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   Mar > Mar 15

             Answers sought on '97 reports of UFO over Phoenix,

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:31:06 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:52:01 -0500
Subject: Answers sought on '97 reports of UFO over Phoenix,

Source: AP via The Dallas Morning News,

http://www.dallasnews.com/texas-southwest-nf/tsw6.htm

Stig

***

Answers sought on '97 reports of UFO in Arizona

Military says lights were flares dropped by planes

03/14/99

Associated Press

MESA, Ariz. - Was it the "mother ship" or simply military
flares?

Two years have passed since mysterious lights appeared in a
V-formation over Phoenix. Was it a UFO? An experimental military
aircraft? A hoax?

Dozens of people saw the lights, and millions around the world
have seen Phoenix insurance agent Mike Krzyston's home video of
them on television. But no one can say for sure what they were.

However, Phoenix resident Tim Ley says his life has changed
since he spied a low-flying, slow-moving object silently passing
overhead on March 13, 1997.

Mr. Ley, who owns a VCR repair shop, and his family were
standing in their driveway when what appeared to be a V-shaped
craft quietly drifted over their house and passed into Dreamy
Draw, only 100 feet over a freeway.

He remembered its being an "alpha" shape, dotted with five
brilliant white lights. But most of all, he remembered the shape
- two 700-foot arms that came to a point.

The Leys weren't alone. Arizonans from all walks of life -
joggers, a Little League baseball team, people scanning the sky
for the Hale-Bopp comet - saw it.

Accounts first placed the object in the northwest part of the
state in the afternoon. Then, beginning at 8 p.m. it passed over
Phoenix, Squaw Peak and the southern portion of the city known
as Ahwatukee Foothills.

At 9:30 p.m., it appeared in Tucson. Half an hour later, it was
seen in Casa Grande. Finally, it was over Phoenix again at 10:10
p.m.

Former Phoenix City Councilwoman Frances Emma Barwood never saw
it. But many of her former constituents on the northeast side of
town did.

"I was not a believer. But I am now," she said.

Ms. Barwood was ridiculed after she formally asked the city and
the Air Force to investigate. She was dubbed the "UFO candidate"
during an unsuccessful run for secretary of state last fall.

Some military officials have said what people saw that night
probably were flares dropped at a gunnery range 40 miles south
of Phoenix by eight A-10 Thunderbolts from the Maryland National
Guard. The flares were dropped at 15,000 feet and had parachutes
attached to them to slow their descent.

The truth might trickle out of a lawsuit filed against the
Department of Defense on behalf of a Scottsdale group called
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, demanding the military produce
what it knows about the object. The suit, filed a year ago, is
pending in federal district court in Phoenix.


*Send a letter to the editor about this story

*What are your thoughts about this story? Say so here.

=A91999 The Dallas Morning News







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                    Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:44:03 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:54:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be


>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 05:08:36 -0800
>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Unique Skeleton Found - Could Be Extraterrestrial

>If there is not a real skeleton but only a plaster casting and
>synthetic matrix, Walt Andrus should step down once and for all.
>A few weeks ago I was venting my feelings regarding the
>notorious Ed Fouche. Many of you read my recent post regarding
>the psychopathology of poseurs, hoaxers, and con - artists.

>After many years as a MUFON field examiner, state section
>director (3 counties at once), starting MUFON chapters, etc., I
>now have to consider the leader - king being just another hoaxer
>to hurt ufology. Walt, if you have purposely perpetrated a cheap
>hoax you are one misguided person. You need help right now.
>MUFON should bring a great board back together and change
>course.

>So Walt, if there is a real skeleton, put up. If there isn't,
>shut up, and may your eyes never lift above the level of shame.


Josh,

Looks to me like this skeleton is nothing more than an elaborate
joke by a paleontologist.  But there is that other skull to
account for.

Unfortunately, the only image I have yet seen of the skull is
taken from a very odd angle and very low res, so it is
impossible to determine just what, if anything, it is.
Hopefully some proper photos will be taken and posted.

BTW, the poster who says he has this skull said that the entire
face was missing, so it may not be possible to tell much.

Bob Shell







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                 March 11 Ohio UFO - Police Report Acquired

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:46:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:58:56 -0500
Subject: March 11 Ohio UFO - Police Report Acquired


UFO SIGHTING
Clyde, Ohio (Sandusky County)
March 11, 1999 - 11:45 p.m.

An Ohio UFO sighting was reported to the Sandusky County
Sheriff's Office on March 11, 1999. The officer responding to
the call advised the complainant to forward the report to The
National UFO Reporting Center. A police report was then taken.

On Monday morning, March 15, an investigation was launched into
a second, unrelated UFO sighting from Sunday March 14, also in
Sandusky County, Ohio. During this inquiry, it was learned that
the March 11 sighting had been documented at the Sheriff's
Office. That report was requested for public release. Below is a
retyped transcript of the March 12 police report. (The March 14
police report will appear shortly)

The name, address and telephone number of the complainant are
withheld from this report for privacy purposes.

--------------POLICE REPORT------------------

Incident #:99001866
Activity: 125
Incident Locn: Area of SR 101 + CR 260
Township Code: York
Grid Code: CLY
Patrol Area: E
Street: East Forest Street
City: Clyde
State Code: OH
Zip Code: 43410
Shift: 3
Dispatcher: 7215
Response Code: 1
Agency Code: SC90
Officer Code: 7215
Disp Code: 003
Recvd Date: 03-11-99
Recvd Time: 23:45
Dispatch Date: 03-11-99
Dispatch Time: 23:45
Arrive Date: 03-12-99
Arrive Time: 00:01
Clear Date: 03-12-99
Clear Time: 00:15
Day of Week: 1

Additional Comments: MISCELLANEOUS

The above complainant called this office and stated that she was
traveling towards Clyde, Ohio on SR 101 in the area of County
Road 260. She stated that she observed what appeared to be a
UFO. She stated that the UFO looked like a triangle in shape and
had three round lights on the bottom. She stated that it was
directly overhead and she could not determine the height or
distance that it was. She stated that she could visibly see that
it was triangle in shape and very distinct round lights. She
stated that it was at this point for several minutes and then
like a shooting star travels, the UFO sped away in an unknown
direction.

At this time this officer contacted the UFO Sightings Center in
Seattle, Washington and advised them of the above situation.
They stated that they would call this complainant and try to get
more information on the above.

Ten or so minutes later a Peter Davenport called back and talked
with this officer and stated that a similar sighting had been
reported near the Chicago, Illinois just 10 minutes before the
UFO was sighted in the area of CR 260 and SR 101. Mr. Davenport
stated that this was a very serious sighting because there were
other calls on it.

Sgt. Michael McGuire, Unit 215

------This concludes the police report dated March 12, 1999--------

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/





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               -=[For The Record]=- 'Alien' Skeleton In MUFON

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:24:50 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:45:01 -0500
Subject: -=[For The Record]=- 'Alien' Skeleton In MUFON

Greetings List


Walt Andrus just called me.  He told me that the article in the
MUFON Journal did not contain the claim that the skeleton was an
"Alien."  He is aware of Slaughter's activities, but that the
skeleton in the article was indeed a real skeleton.  He is also
aware that there is no Ladonia University.

Walt says the skeleton is real and needs to be studied, he does
not claim ET origin, and the article was just for discussion
purposes.  He claims the "alien" skeleton is different from all
other Slaughter artifacts.

Walt Andrus told me that the plan for further analysis is to
take a piece of bone from the skeleton and a metal sample from
the "armor" and subject them to analysis.  He would like to do a
DNA analysis on the bone.  He reiterated that while the other
items in Slaughter's collection are manufactured artifacts.  The
skeleton is indeed composed
of bones.


--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135





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   Mar > Mar 16

                            Re: Bell is no Rense

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:56:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:42:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense


At 01:54 PM 3/12/1999 -0500, EBK wrote:

>Subject: Re: Bell is no Rense

<snip>

>KING: When you got into this, did you become a believer or a
>      reporter?

>BELL: I'm still a reporter.

>[...]

>And then later Bell changes his job description...

>KING: When you do all you do, and you talk to all the people
>      you always talk to, I know you said earlier that you were
>      a reporter, but do you also become...

>BELL: I'm not a reporter. I'm a talk show host -- difference.

Errol-

While I have no interest in promoting Art Bell, I think that Art
is a bit of both.  However, his presentation on his program is
that of an Entertainment program, rather than that of a
documentary news program. These are dual hats that many "Talking
Heads" wear.

Steve







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                 March 14 Ohio UFO Sighting: Police Witness

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:02:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:48:40 -0500
Subject: March 14 Ohio UFO Sighting: Police Witness


UFO SIGHTING
Fremont, OHIO (Sandusky County)
March 14, 1999 - 11:36 p.m.
Police document, witness interview

Courtesy of Tim Hagemeister, NACOMM, a UFO sighting from
Fremont, Ohio (Sandusky County) was passed along. The report
alleged that UFOs were spotted the previous evening, March 14,
1999.

In an attempt to determine if others in the Fremont, Ohio area
also reported strange sightings, a phone call was placed to the
Sandusky County Sheriff's Office (419-332-2613) at 8:15 a.m.
Monday morning, March 15, 1999. Deputy Cunningham handled the
call and acknowledged that a previous UFO sighting from last
week (from Clyde, Ohio, 6-miles southeast of Fremont) was
referred to the NATIONAL UFO REPORTING CENTER.

Details of this report can be found at:
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/CLYDE99.htm

When informed that details of a more recent sighting were sought
after, Deputy Cunningham then said, "At 23:36 last night, March
14, a deputy went out to investigate a UFO sighting and did
report a strange array of lights in the sky, describing them as
being clustered together. The officer observed the cluster of
lights and made a detailed police report, and that report was
requested for public disclosure.

The call was transferred to Connie, a kind employee of the
Records Department. Connie agreed to forward the full report on
both sightings. Below is a transcribed version of the "Calls for
Service by Agency Type/Incident #" report, which is entitled:
"Suspicious flying object:"

--------------POLICE REPORT------------------

Incident #:99001950
Activity: 132
Incident Locn: SW OF 712 CR 126
Township Code: BALL
Grid Code: FRE
Patrol Area: C
Street: CR 126
City: Fremont
State Code: OH
Zip Code: 43420
Shift: 3
Dispatcher: 7253
Response Code: 2
Agency Code: SCSO
Officer Code: 7234
Disp Code: 003
Recvd Date: 03-14-99
Recvd Time: 23:36
Dispatch Date: 03-14-99
Dispatch Time: 23:39
Arrive Date: 03-14-99
Arrive Time: 23:47
Clear Date: 03-14-99
Clear Time: 23:50
Day of Week: 1

Additional Comments: SUSPICIOUS FLYING OBJECT

The complaintant called dispatch and indicated that he was
observing a strange array of lights in the sky that appeared to
be southwest from his [deleted for privacy purposes] residence.
The complainant described the lights as being clustered together
and multi-coplored.

As I responded to the area of the call, I first observed the
cluster of lights as I was on the west end of the bypass. They
appeared to be red, green, white or yellow in color. I continued
south on SR 53 and then west on SR 12. The lights did not appear
to be getting closer, so I pulled my cruiser over at the
intersection of CR 12 and SR 12, in order to retrieve my field
glasses from the trunk.

I was unable to identify the object through my field glasses.
The lights appeared to illuminating in a steady fashion. I did
not observe any flashing or change in brightness.

The unidentified flying object did not give me any indication
that it was anything else other than an airplane or helicopter.
Although the lights did not appear to be moving at a high rate
of speed, the height and distance from my location made it
difficult, if not impossible, to estimate.

The object did not appear to be posing a threat or acting in any
way that could have been interpreted as hostile. I returned to
routine patrol.

Deputy Amor

------This concludes the police report dated March 14, 1999--------

FURTHER INVESTIGATION:

The witness, whose name, address and phone number was listed in
the police report [deleted for privacy], was contacted this
morning at 9:00 p.m.

While requesting that his name not be used in any report, he
went on to explain that his wife and daughter had also saw the
strange lights as well. The objects, he said, were visible from
around 11:30 p.m. until almost 2:00 a.m.

"They were not stars," the witness assured soundly, "they were
cigar-shaped, oscillating lights. Several of them were sitting
way out to the west of us sitting in a triangular pattern. They
were not airplanes or helicopters.

"One that was closest seemed to have a white light underneath
and other light on top. We did not see any structure, they were
too far away, but we could see that there was some shape to
them.

"The most I ever saw at one time was about 5 or 6 of them, most
of the time there were 3 in a triangular pattern. Each
individual object would be visible for a lengthy duration of
time, and would move around in different parts of the sky. One
moved to the east. They were not on the horizon at any point."

When asked again about the possibility that the witness could
have been observing twinkling stars, he stated: "These things
were traveling the wrong way for stars. Stars were disappearing
in the west, the objects we saw traveling in all different
directions, some to the east. In the beginning when they were
closest to us we heard a hum."

The daughter, who also came to the phone and discussed the
event, described a quiet, low noise heard while the objects were
closest to their location. The humming sound was not high
pitched, but a somewhat low, steady droning noise.

The objects were still visible at 2:00 a.m. when the family
finally decided to retire to bed, even though they were farther
off in the distance.

"I have no idea what this was," the witness said, "I've seen
twinkling stars before, there is no way this was stars. They
were cigar shaped or oblong lights and made a humming sound."

The witness, who does not own a camera, said that he had "the
shit" scared out of his family because of the incident. When
asked why they were alarmed, he said: "We've never seen anything
like this before."

The witness contacted the Sandusky County Sheriff's Office, took
his report but did not respond to him otherwise. "They never
came out," he said.

He also reported the sighting on-line to the on-line UFO report
site NACOMM, directed by Tim Hagemeister [it was due to
Hagemeister's forwarding of this report that began this
investigation].

He also tried calling WRIGHT PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE in Dayton,
Ohio, but did not get any answer at their phone number. He also
tried to call the control tower at the Toledo Airport, but could
not get through.

The weather conditions at the time were clear skies with cold
temperatures.

Filed;
March 15, 1999
Kenny Young
--
UFO Research





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                Re: Alien Skeleton - Hoax or History - update

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:44:54 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:50:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Skeleton - Hoax or History - update


>From: Jimmie L. Holman <holman@holman.net>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Alien Skeleton - Hoax or History - update
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:38:46 -0600

>[Non-Subscriber Post]

>At _no_ time did I ever find _any_any indication that the late
>Professor Slaughter _ever_ attempted to perpetrate any type of
>HOAX. On the contrary ... I believe it was probably something
>for the Professor's _own_private_ therapy and amusement.


Exactly!  In spite of images to the contrary, professional
scientists do have senses of humor, and often very weird ones.

When I worked at the Smithsonian Institution years ago there was
one fellow who delighted in creating fake insects and adding
them to the collection.  He made them by using pieces and parts
of real insects and gluing them together.  The names he put on
them were the tipoffs that they were bogus.

In one case he took a rather ordinary fly, and put a
grasshopper's tibia between its head and body and gave it a
Latin name which meant giraffe-fly.

A different fellow used to carve beetles from styrofoam, paint
them up nicely, and slip them into the collection.  His names,
too, gave them away.  My favorite was a BIG black beetle which
he christened with the delightful name of Staphylinus
styrofoamus !

I am pretty sure that Professor Slaughter must have had a sense
of humor in a similar vein.

Bob Shell





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                       Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

From: Christophe Meessen <meessen@mailclub.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:56:51 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:53:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:54:09 -0400

>I would point out that in about 1520 Magellan's ship took about
>2 years to go around the Earth. In the 19th century the goal was
>around the world in 80 days. Not too many years ago it took
>several days to circumnavigate the globe in an airplane. Now the
>shuttle does it in 90 minutes.

This is not an argument since we don't know is such type of
"rules" may apply to interstellar travels. At best we may hope
that it could true.

>It takes roughly one year at 1G acceleration to get close to
>the speed of light (c). At 99.9% of c, one can go 37 Light Years
>in 20 months pilot time. At 99.99%c it only takes 6 months. and
>remember that Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli are about a billion
>years older than the sun and are less than a light year apart.

Yes but our solar system is a litle further away than a light
year. The question is then still how did they manage to come
here if they came from so far.

Beside, in the second book on the Belgian Ufo flap (p418) A.
Meessen (my father) explain how he computes travel duration time
with constant acceleration of 1G and reaching speed close to the
speed of light. But he doesn't have exactly the same numbers. So
may be you may compare with your computation method. So imagine
an object accelerating at 1G the first half of the travel and
decelerating by 1G the rest of the travel.

For 50 LY the travel duration will be 7.9 years for the pilots
and 52 on earth.

The formula to compute the travel time taking in account the
acceleration process  is the following:

Ta = 2 ln ( 1 + (R/2) + sqrt( (R+(R/2)^2 ) ) where R is the
distance traveled expressed in LY.

We see that for 37 LY ->  Ta = 7.326 years, not 20 months.

This is still acceptable for the human time scale but not as
close as you claimed it to be. Not a holliday trip.

These numbers are probably more accurate.

But anyway this only shows that without breaking known physics
laws, the travel time is not a real problem. But there are two
other major problems left: energy and navigation/obstacle
avoidance.

Nonetheless reasonable travel duration is not an argument that
justify rejecting the possibility that the Betty Hill map does
correspond to our solar system.

I can't see any reasonable arguments that woudl allow rejecting
the idea that Ets might have bases at least in our solar system
and that they would do their business on earth traveling from
there. Why would they keep traveling back and forth from Zeta to
earth?


>Don't forget Friedman's law: Technological
>Progress comes from doing things differently  in an
>unpredictable way..

I understand the first part of the law but what is the link
between unpredictability and technology progress ?


Best regards,

Ch. Meessen





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   Mar > Mar 16

                Re: Where Has All the Bromine Gone, Long Time

From: Judith Dale <judithdale@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:17:25 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:58:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Where Has All the Bromine Gone, Long Time


>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:07:07 -0500
>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Where Has All the Bromine Gone, Long Time Passing...

>Recently there was a thread concerning the Billy Meier contactee
>story and Bromine, Chlorine, CFCs and their relationship to the
>ozone layer.

>The following article which appeared in the NY Times today
>provides a background on some of the scientific and economic
>issues involved.

>Gary

>New York Times National New March 14, 1999  Page 24

>Peach Oil May Work as Pesticide

>Effective Natural Substances Could Replace Toxic Compounds

>By JOHN H. CUSHMAN Jr.

>WASHINGTON, March 13 -- Government scientists have found that
>the harmless natural oil that gives peaches their perfume also
>kills fungus and other pests in the soil and could replace
>methyl bromide, a widely used pesticide that is toxic to people
>and also damages the planet's protective ozone layer.

<snip>

Gary,

Thanks for this enlightening tidbit. And, so, we are presented
with yet more information, that can weigh in on the side of
veracity for Billy Meier's claims. Although,  his story, like
many others, sounds almost too fantastical to believe, it is
perhaps a true one. Certainly, Billy got his  information from
somewhere or someone.

Are we still so egocentric, that we find it impossible to
believe that there are others more advanced? My personal jury is
still debating as to the origins of these 'others'. Though, I
lean toward a multiplicity of explanations. My own experiences
cause me to think the subject is very far from one simple
explanation.

Regards,
Judith






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                   The Millennium Report - March 15, 1999

From: Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:38:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:13:26 -0500
Subject: The Millennium Report  - March 15, 1999


The Millennium Report
E-Mail Updates from The Millennium Project

March 15, 1999


In This Edition:

Y2K, Contrail and Radar Anomaly Updates,
Best Evidence for Past Life on Mars?,
Phoenix Lights: 2 Years Later, Alien Skeleton
Found?, UFOs Over Rome and Inca Ruins, UFO
Roundup, Filer's Files, New Abduction Web Site,
Orange Balls of Light in England, UFOs and Crop
Circles in Peru, Oliver's Castle Confession
Video on Japanese TV, New Antimatter Discovery,
Ancient Egyptian Technology, S-Spirals on Sun,
Immortality Revisited, Hilton Space Hotel

Editor:
Paul Anderson

_____________________________


SPECIAL RESEARCH PROJECTS

* Y2K: Japanese Satellite Tests to be Suspended, New Links
* Contrails: Reports from California, Texas and South Carolina,
   New Links
* Radar Anomalies: Circle in Snow Storm Over Michigan


NEWS AND REPORTS

* Best Evidence Yet for Past Life on Mars?
* The Phoenix Lights: 2 Years Later -
   Special Report from The National UFO Reporting Center
* MUFON Report: Extraterrestrial Skeleton Found?
* UFOs Over Rome and Inca Ruins in Peru
* UFO Roundup 4.11 - March 15, 1999
* Filer's Files #10 - March 11, 1999
* International Center for Abduction Research Launches
   New Web Sit
* More Orange Balls of Light in England
* UFOs and Crop Circles in Peru
* Oliver's Castle Confession Video to be Aired on Japanese TV
* "Sensational" Anti-Matter Discovery
* Evidence of Ancient Egyptian Advanced Technology?
* S-Spirals on Sun to Help Scientists Predict Massive
   Solar Flares
* Science Warming to the Idea of Immortality
* Hilton to Back Space Hotel Project

_____________________________


See News and Reports on the TMP web site for links
to current news and updates and an archive of previous
news, as well as information on Special Research
Projects and other TMP resources:

Main TMP Web Site (frames):
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

News and Reports:
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/news.html

Special Research Projects:
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/srp.html

_____________________________


The Millennium Report is the e-mail update service of The
Millennium Project, an independent research organization
initiated in January 1999 as an alternative source of news
and information to the maintream media. TMP was founded
by future studies researcher Paul Anderson, also director of
Circles Phenomenon Research Canada.

TMR is published weekly or as breaking news develops, with the
latest news, information and web site updates and is available
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=A9 The Millennium Project, 1999







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   Mar > Mar 16

                Re: {100} Part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:17:27 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:16:52 -0500
Subject: Re: {100} Part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network


>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:50:14 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: {100} Part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:16:19 +0000
>>From: Lloyd Bayliss <lloyd@POWER-AGE.DEMON.CO.UK>
>>Subject: {100} Part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>>To: UFO@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

>>The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
>>subscribers in over 58 countries.

><snip>

>>Interview With Tim Matthews

>>Special guest on UK.UFO.NW - IRC - #UFO channel

>>The below text is a log of the United Kingdom UFO Network -IRC-
>>(internet relay chat) meeting held on Saturday 20th February 1999.
>>Tim Matthews kindly gave up a few hours of his time to answer
>>questions from visitors to our dedicated UFO channel.

><snip>

>><Tedric>tim, what unexplain ufo sightings do you think really are
>>UFOs?>

>><T_Matthew>Hmmm. I'm not sure there are any really "unexplained" cases
>>as such. There are intriguing ones but the more one looks for answers -
>>the role of the researcher - the more one finds sensible solutions. My
>>research is helping to explain cases like Muroc Field (1947) and
>>McMinnville and only yesterday I learned that farmer Paul Trent believed
>>that he'd photographed a secret military aircraft in 1950 - not an

>Amusing, regarding Trent case....which, if Matthews is correct,
>would make the Trent photos the best evidence of US built
>circular craft propelled by...? (the Trents heard no noise)

It's an interesting possibility - well I think so...

I have seen helicopters from half a mile and not heard a damn
thing...

What does that prove....?

>Ironic:  "dyed in the wool skeptics" would say that Paul Trent's
>statement that he thought it was a new Air Force aricraft was a
>way for that clever hoaxer to make people think the sighting
>was real.

>HAHAHAHAHA

>Silly Paul.

>Tim Mathews saw through the non-deception immediately when he
>realized that Paul was telling the truth.

>I wonder if Tim can convince Klass and Shaeffer that Trent saw a
>US made flying disc.

I don't care what they think and they are perfectly entitled to
their CIA-like opinions......

Tim X








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                Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:21:04 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:21:38 -0500
Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers:;
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>Date: 15 March 1999 15:39

>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:50:09 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:17:49 +0000
>>From: Lloyd Bayliss <lloyd@POWER-AGE.DEMON.CO.UK>
>>To: UFO@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
>>Subject: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

>>INTERVIEW OF TIM MATHHEWS:

>><Assassin>ask him this if you don't believe then why are there
>>thousands of ppl claiming they have been ubducted by aliens

>><T_Matthew>There are not thousands of people - just a bunch of
>>well-paid story tellers and believers telling you this. These

>Well paid story tellers? The abductees? Better tell them.
>They're still waiting for that first paycheck

So these 'abductees' writing books and having books written
about them are not being paid a penny?  Didn't Pamela
Stonebrooke get paid $50,000 for her book.

(If I'm mistaken forget an apology!)

I heard her on UK 'Talk Radio' recently - madness, sheer
madness..but profitable madness nevertheless.....?

Methinks that you are forgetting the UFO INDUSTRY.......it's
worth millions.

><snip>

>><JeroenW>Tim, have you researched the M-12 stuff, ultimately coming
>>to the conclusion that its all rubbish?

>><T_Matthew>Yes, I've got all the documents (well nearly all) and spent
>>a great deal of time looking into them and asking people all the
>>difficult questions. To me the thing starts off with a lie; "On 24th
>>June 1947....Kenneth Arnold saw 9 flying discs". No he didn't. There

>Huh?  He didn't see 9 flying discs?  Then what did Arnold report?

Good question Bruce and I think we've debated this before. One
of his drawings was of a Horten wing but as you have agreed
there are tremendous problems with the sighting........It was
the media who decided to give birth to the terms 'flying
saucers' - and not really Kenneth Arnold who was attempting to
describe the motion of the objects he saw..........

Hear from you soon,

Tim X








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   Mar > Mar 16

                Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:53:20 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:25:34 -0500
Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network


>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:50:09 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:17:49 +0000
>>From: Lloyd Bayliss <lloyd@POWER-AGE.DEMON.CO.UK>
>>To: UFO@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
>>Subject: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

>>INTERVIEW OF TIM MATHHEWS:

>><Assassin> ask him this if you don't believe then why are there
>>thousands of ppl claiming they have been ubducted by aliens

>><T_Matthew> There are not thousands of people - just a bunch of
>>well-paid story tellers and believers telling you this. These

>Well paid story tellers? The abductees? Better tell them.
>They're still waiting for that first paycheck

><snip>

>><JeroenW> Tim, have you researched the M-12 stuff, ultimately coming
>>to the conclusion that its all rubbish?

>><T_Matthew> Yes, I've got all the documents (well nearly all) and spent
>>a great deal of time looking into them and asking people all the
>>difficult questions. To me the thing starts off with a lie; "On 24th
>>June 1947....Kenneth Arnold saw 9 flying discs". No he didn't. There

>Huh?  He didn't see 9 flying discs?  Then what did Arnold report?

Dear Bruce;

You don't mind my calling you "Bruce," do you?  Thank you.  And
from this point forward, you may call me Dr. Gesundt.  We should
start out friends, no matter how we wind up, eh?

OK.  I now come to the points.  In about two weeks, I will
introduce my first major research work, "Nothing is Revealed!"
My name will not appear on the document, even though it was my
money, my database, my files, my everything, went into creating
this wind breaking study on the phenom of UFO's and the
abduction experience.  I use the word, "Phenom," because I am
not sure whether it should be phenomena or phenomenon. I always
have that problem, don't you?

Getting back... in "Nothing is Revealed," I demonstrate that
during the course of the past fifty-two years, nothing in the
study of UFO's, abduction, Chupacabra, Kakapoopoo and etc., has
been adequately explained.  Nothing at all.  Tim Matthiews,
Matthews, Matt Hews, whatever, anyway, to quote him, there are
two camps.  Those who believe and those who don't.  Well, Duh!?
Now we here at the Canal Street UFOlogical Research Center in
New York, want to know what other camps are expected in this
mix?

Jacques Vallee revealed nothing. At least he was smart enough to
ask the questions, though.  Name any researcher.  Anyone.  Go
ahead Bruce, ... Jaime Gesundt, Bennie Parsons, Elvis?  No one
has revealed any facts which underwrite the answer to the
questions posed by those who believe, those who don't and _even_
those who are open minded.

Now to get back to the title of this post, the subject of this
post... what did Arnold see?   Are you ready for _this_ wind
breaking revelation?  OK, here it comes... over the teeth and
through the gums, "What Kenny Arnold saw is ... we aint got the
foggiest idea!"  And we say _just that_ in our book, "Nothing is
Revealed."

Please, do not misunderstand.  Canal Street Research does not
advocate dropping opinions, stopping research, ceasing to
discuss, cuss and swear and argue ad infinitum.... ad nauseum
even.  Nope!  What we do advocate, and have advocated for so
long, is for everyone to sit down, take a deep breath, sip a
Grip, and think long and hard before uttering those infamous
words, "I have the answer!"  BeCAUS the answer might be
something you may regret... it may be the wrong answer.

Like Adam's answer to the question of God, the Universe and
Everything. Forty-three!  What the hell kinda answer is that,
anyway?

Drs. Jaime Gesundt,

I got a lotta degrees in this stuff, you better believe me, OK?







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   Mar > Mar 16

                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 11

From: Masinaigan <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:47:51 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:32:10 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 11



    UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 4, Number 11
March 15, 1999
Editor: Joseph Trainor

UFO ROUNDUP


KNUTSFORD A HOAX, BUFOSC LEARNS

The British UFO Studies Centre (BUFOSC) announced this
week that the UFO landing near Knutsford, Cheshire, UK
during the early morning hours of March 1, 1999 was a hoax.

BUFOSC was originally contacted by a "Caroline Sutton" of
Sefton and "Graham Wenham" of Northampton. The couple
reportedly told BUFOSC investigators that they had seen nine
UFOs from their suite at the Royal George Hotel, and that the
objects had landed in a wooded area of the Tatton Country
Park near Knutsford.

After receiving "a lengthy statement" from Sutton, BUFOSC
contacted Gloria Dixon, director of investigations for the
British UFO Research Association (BUFORA) and
best-selling UFO author Jenny Randles. But, according to
BUFOSC coordinator Eric Morris, "They had heard nothing.
We checked again with the local papers. Nothing."

Morris invited Sutton and Wenham to his home in Northwich
for a detailed interview. He reported, "Upon arrival, the pair
seemed very nervous, perhaps understandably, and didn't like
being asked searching questions about the sighting."

As of Thursday, March 11, 1999, "BUFOSC investigators
have now spoken with 100 local people" in Knutsford,
"including those who live nearest the site of the supposed
'landing.' Not only had nobody seen or heard anything
remotely resembling a UFO, but the burned, flattened area
had been there for weeks prior to the supposed events of
Sunday and Monday (February 28 and March 1). This means
that 'Wenham' and 'Sutton' probably sought out a flattened
area in order to try and tie their false report in with the UFO
'landing and trace' case literature." (Many thanks to Tim
Matthews of the Lancashire UFO Society for this report.)

ORANGE SPHERE UFOs SIGHTED IN CONSETT,
NORTH DURHAM

UFOs, described as "bright orange balls, apparently flying in
formation," have been seen repeatedly in Consett and
Stanley, North Durham, UK.

The flap began Thursday, February 18, 1999, at 10:30 p.m.,
when "three orange sphere UFOs were seen over" North
Durham, which is located about 255 miles (408 kilometers)
north of London.

"Bright orange balls, some apparently flying in formation, have
been spotted in parts of County Durham. UFO experts believe
that major activity has been concentrated over North
Durham."

"One woman driving her car on Crooksgate Road, between
Newcastle and Consett, watched a large oval- shaped object
in the clouds for 20 seconds."

"In a detailed statement to a UFO information centre in
Leeds, run by coordinator Andrew Ellis, she said it was bright
orange and yellow."

"The woman, who did not want to be named, said the object
seemed to hover above the trees and then it moved behind
them."

"'We have several reports from the Consett and Stanley area,'
Ellis said, ''One had four balls coming together in a formation
and disappearing.'"

Ellis is looking for more reports from North Durham. He can
be contacted at this telephone number: 01132 482 973. (See
the Newcastle Evening Chronicle for March 12, 1999,
"Heavens above." Many thanks to Gerry Lovell for forwarding
the newspaper article.)

RED DISC HOVERS OVER CARNOUSTIE, SCOTLAND

"An unidentified flying object spotted in Angus skies near
Carnoustie this morning has left a number of people
mystified."

"One Carnoustie resident, who sought to remain anonymous,
said he had been fairly sceptical about such things but
wanted an explanation for what he had seen."

"He and several members of his family, along with a Forfar
couple, saw a strange red disc moving about in the sky
between 6:30 and 6:55 a.m. this morning."

"Neither the Coastguard or members of staff at RAF
Leuchars could shed any light on the sighting."

"'I was out walking the dog with my wife and children at the
Black Slab car park this morning," (Friday, March 12, 1999)
he said, "We saw this red oblong shape in the sky and it
couldn't have been the moon or a star because of the way it
was moving. It then just disappeared.'"

A car pulled up beside the family, and the driver stuck his
head out the window. "'The man in the car said he was from
Forfar and had seen the light earlier, and we could see that he
was distressed.'"

The family continued walking along the beach, and, at 6:55
a.m., the UFO appeared again.

"'I'm neither a believer nor a non-believer in UFOs. But this
time it changed from red to bright orange and it was much
bigger,' he continued, 'Anybody looking at the sky could have
seen it. It was that big. You couldn't miss it.'"

"A member of the Fife Coastguard said there had been no
reports of flares or other lights."

"A spokesman at RAF Leuchars discounted any official aerial
activity from the Fife airbase. 'I know of no operations in the
area by any of our flights,' he said.

Carnoustie is a port city on Scotland's east coast about 60
miles (100 kilometers) northeast of Edinburgh, the capital.
(See the Dundee Evening Telegram for March 12, 1999,
"Carnoustie disc remains a mystery." Many thanks to Gerry
Lovell for forwarding the newspaper article.)

UFO FLAP ERUPTS IN WALES

On Wednesday, March 3, 1999, at 7:30 p.m., a strange blue
light appeared on a hill just south of Llangollen, Denbighshire,
Wales. Witnesses in the city, observing the hill with
binocuilars, spotted "a blue sphere emitting irregular pulses
of light, interfering with TV signals and electrical supplies."

Several witnesses drove out to the hill and "got within 100
metres" of the site. They described the UFO as "a rotating
gaseous blue sphere" approximately "10 feet (3 meters) in
diameter at a distance of 100 metres."

The UFO "rose above the fence vertically, stopped
momentarily, then descended back to where it rose from."
After it vanished, two witnesses hiked to the spot but were
unable to find anything.

Llangollen is about 110 miles (166 kilometers) north of
Cardiff, the capital. The case is being investigated by the
Welsh Federation of Independent Ufologists. (Many thanks to
Hugh Edwards for this report.)

Three days later, on Saturday, March 6, 1999, law professor
Tim Richards, 46, and a fellow instructor were driving north
between Quaker Yard and Merther Tydfil, Wales when they
saw "a huge green light descend towards the ground."

"When I saw large, I mean something about a sixth the size of
the moon," Richards reported, "We saw it only for a second,
but it was definitely not like anything we have seen before. It
was bright green and disappeared behind a bank of cloud
toward the north-northwest. As there were no street lights, it
actually lit up the cloud from behind. It was not a reflection
from the internal car lights. It was too large to be a shooting
star, and it was definitely not an aeroplane." (Many thanks to
Ben Field of BUFOD for this report.)

UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE IN CALIFORNIA

On Wednesday, March 10, 1999, at 12:05 a.m., Eric H. was
driving north on Highway 101 in Ventura, California
(population 92,955), a city located 66 miles (110 kilometers)
northwest of Los Angeles. While chatting on the cell phone
with his wife Jolene, he spotted something strange in the sky.

"As we were chatting, he broke off and said, 'Whoa! What is
that!?'" Jolene reported. "He observed a very bright star, the
brightest in the sky. Except it was an amber color 'like golden
yellow sunlight' and appeared to have a faint trail. He placed it
at about 45 degrees in the northeastern sky. 'But it was very
far up, very far away. It could be in Russia for all I know. It's
really moving.'"

"'Honey,' I told him, 'If it's moving, then it's not a star.'"

"'It's just wandering,' he said."

"At first it moved in a straight line," Jolene added, "As he
watched it, it changed directions several times, all the while
moving in a very limited range of motion." (Email Interview)

A half-hour later, on Wednesday, March 10, 1999, at 12:30
a.m., Lee Ann, an eyewitness, was driving in California's high
desert on Highway 14 between Rosamond (population 7,430)
and Mojave (population 3,763) when she spotted a UFO.

"In the very high western sky, we saw a light, orange-red, that
flared out a large amber glow, that might have been a beam
of light," Lee Ann reported. "But not all the way to the ground.
It stayed stationary for about two minutes, then slowly
ascended upward out of view and vanished."

Rosamond is 50 miles (80 kilometers) north of Los Angeles.
(Many thanks to Pamela Hamilton for this report.)

In northern California, a UFO flap took place in Antioch
(population 62,195), a town on Highway 4 about 45 miles (72
kilometers) east of San Francisco.

"Joan Gatrell of Antioch, Cal. and a score of other East
County residents stopped dead in their tracks to observe
some mysterious glowing lights hovering over Delta in the
northeast skies."

"'They were real bright,' said Gatrell, who first saw the
phenomenon while driving east on Highway 4. 'I think they
were like airline towers. There was nothing attached to them.
They were like something floating.'"

"'I'm not into any of that kind of (UFO) stuff,' said Gatrell, the
owner of Clip N Clean, a pet grooming business. 'I'm a real
human being.'"

"Like others who called the Times newsroom Thursday
(March 11, 1999), Gatrell first spotted the lights after 9 p.m.
She described them as a 'bright white color. It's something I
have never seen.'"

Kyle Bennett, another Antioch resident, rejected the
explanation that it was an airplane or a helicopter. "'I'll never
buy it as a helicopter, though. The only thing I might buy is that
it was a hot-air balloon. It was all lit up.'"

"Bennett, who pulled over on Highway 4 with other drivers to
observe the sight, said there were five lights. 'They were
perfectly separated, almost in an upside-down U-shape, and
the one in the middle was the brightest,' Bennett said."

"Over ten minutes, the lights dimmed and went out one at a
time after they appeared to drop flares." (See the Contra
Costa Times for March 12, 1999, "Strange lights seen
hovering over Delta," by Charles Levin. Many thanks to Gerry
Lovell for forwarding the newspaper article.)

MOTORIST SEES A UFO FIRE A BEAM OVER
PHILADELPHIA

On Tuesday, February 23, 1999, at 6:10 a.m., William B.
"was on my way to work, driving to my office in Philadelphia,"
the largest city in the USA's state of Pennsylvania. "I was
driving on Hillcrest Avenue in the northwest section of
Philadelphia. What I saw for about 30 seconds appeared at
first to be the landing lights of a large commercial airliner,
perhaps (the Boeing) 777 class, coming directly at me. The
color was white, steady, no additional lights."

"At this time, the sky was bright enough from the sunrise
(which was at the opposite horizon) to have 'washed out' any
astronomical object except for the moon. There was no
apparent movement. There were multiple points on the object,
maybe as many as eight, making it appear in the same
general appearance as a Christmas star" on top of a
Christmas tree.

"What made the light interesting was the appearance of a
bluish-white, spotlight-like beam coming out of it at a
45-degree angle toward the surface. Within this beam was a
much-thinner white thread-like beam which came to an
apparent halt within the bluish beam approximately 20
percent of the way to the ground, and then appeared to
slightly diverge" in direction.

"The object was about 30 degrees above the horizon. No
sound was heard. I was inside my car, driving with the
windows rolled up. No effect on my car was observed."

"I estimate that the object was over the King of Prussia area
of Montgomery County about 20 miles (32 kilometers) away.
Apparent size about 20 percent of the size of the full moon."

King of Prussia, Pa. (population 18,406) is on Route 202
about 20 miles (32 kilometers) northwest of Philadelphia.
(Email Interview)

TWO UFOs APPEAR OVER BLACK LAKE, NEW
MEXICO

On Friday, February 19, 1999, at 9:30 p.m., two UFOs, "each
a single brilliant white light," rose into the sky from the Coyote
Canyon area, about two miles south of the witnesses' home in
Black Lake, New Mexico (population 175).

The UFOs, "when viewed through binoculars, were 'rapidly
oscillating, as if they were rapidly spinning.' And the lights
were described as 'being so bright they left an after-image'
after the witnesses looked away."

"Within minutes of the commencement of the sighting, the first
two objects/lights were joined by four smaller lights. The first
two objects stopped in front of his living room window and
'began bouncing around like they wanted our attention.' Then
the group backed down for several minutes before two of the
objects went straight up and four darted off over the
mountains to the south."

On Monday, March 8, 1999, at 8:30 p.m., the same couple,
who lives a quarter-mile south of Black Lake, noticed that "a
bright white light appeared to rise from behind the mountains
to the altitude of a passing jet (possibly 25,000 to 35,000
feet--J.T.) The light 'paced the plane, staying 15 miles behind
it,' as the two headed south towards Las Vegas, N.M."

Black Lake is on New Mexico Highway 434 about 23 miles
(37 kilometers) southeast of Taos. (Many thanks to
author/researcher Christopher O'Brien for this report. And
don't miss Chris's new book, Enter the Valley, now on sale at
bookstores throughout the USA.)

SILVER DAYLIGHT DISC HOVERS OVER A CHURCH IN
ROME

On Monday, March 8, 1999, at about 10 a.m., Alfredo
DiPrinzio was walking across the Piazza di Navona in Rome,
capital of Italy, when he spotted a bright gleam over the spire
of Santa Agnese Church.

Looking closer, DiPrinzio saw that "the object was silver and
oval-shaped and had a jerky movement in the sky."

Within a minute, nearly everyone in the square had noticed
the UFO darting about high above the baroque church, which
was designed by the Renaissance architect Borromini.

According to Adriano Forgione, a journalist for Notizario
UFO, "Many people saw the object because the plaza is filled
with tourists at that hour. One man reportedly photographed
the UFO, and we are trying to obtain that photo. The object
disappeared quite suddenly." (Grazie a Adriano Forgione per
questo rapporto.)

DENVER SCIENTIST ANALYZES METEOSAT-3 UFO
IMAGE

Ufologists have been puzzled for weeks by the strange
discoidal object in the satellite infrared image taken by
Meteosat-3 in 1993. But now Colorado computer scientist
John C. Craig may have the answer.

Now living near Denver, Craig served as MUFON state
section director in the middle 1990s. He has written 17 books
on programming, most published by Microsoft Press. He
created the software for many of the world's largest solar
tracking facilities, which, he says, "stirred my interest in
astronomical calculations and number crunching."

"I've done some quick analysis and research, and I'm
convinced the anomalous image is very likely the moon,"
Craig stated.

"Meteosat-3 was launched in 1988 and then later moved into
its final position at 75 degrees west longitude, and directly
above the equator, on February 24, 1993. Its calculated
distance from the center of the Earth is 26,204 miles."

"At 18:30 UTC on September 3, 1993, the moon was directly
above" Earth "at 107.7 degrees east longitude and 8.0
degrees north latitude, at a distance of about 239,000 miles
from the center of the Earth."

"At this point in time, the satellite, the Earth and the moon
were fairly close to being in a straight line. As regard to the
satellite, the Earth's disk subtends an angle of 17.2 degrees
across, and the moon subtends an angle of 0.47 degrees
across. This agrees closely with the size images, especially
when you consider that the full diameter of the 94-percent,
almost-full moon will probably show up completely in the
infrared image" field of view.

"More importantly...since the moon was situated at 107.7
degrees east longitude, and the satellite at 75 (degrees)
west, the moon should be beyond the Earth and to the left of
center by about three degrees. Also, since the moon was at 8
degrees north latitude, it must appear to be above the curve
of the Earth, even though it was to the left of the Earth's
center. This fits with the image very well, too."

Craig concludes that the "UFO" in the Meteosat image was
merely "the infrared signature of the moon." (Email Interview)

BLACK HELICOPTERS HOLD EXERCISE IN ALABAMA

Yet another black helicopter training exercise was held last
week, this time at the municipal airport in Anniston, Alabama
(population 26,263), a city on Highway 21 approximately 66
miles (110 kilometers) east of Birmingham.

According to WorldNet Daily, the training exercise took place
between Tuesday, March 9, and Friday, March 12, 1999. The
Net newspaper quoted a press release from the Public
Information Office at Fort McClellan, Alabama, which stated,
"Approximately 800 soldiers from 3rd Battalion, 75th Ranger
Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia and the 160th Special
Operations Aviation Regiment (SOAR, also known as the
Night Stalkers--J.T.) will be participating in a training exercise
in the Anniston and Fort McClellan area March 9 - 12. We
apologize in advance for the noise and thank you for your
cooperation and consideration."

WorldNet Daily reported, "The 160th Special Operations
Aviation Regiment, also known as the Night Stalkers,
specializes in flying at night without lights. Recently the Army
admitted that black helicopters do exist. They are flown by
Night Stalkers at treetop height to avoid detection and
maximize surprise."

The Anniston exercise, which involved the simulated capture
of an enemy airport, was the latest in a series of black
helicopter training maneuvers. Previous exercises took place
in Kingsville, Texas, Port Aransas, Texas and Lowell,
Massachusetts.

WorldNet Daily added, "Military spokesmen claim that such
exercises are necessary to train elite troops to fight
terrorists...The press have routinely been denied an
opportunity to observe and publicize such exercises in the
past."

On Saturday, February 27, 1999, residents of Dothan,
Alabama (population 53,589), located 108 miles (173
kilometers) southeast of Montgomery, the state capital, were
surprised to see an unusual military convoy heading west on
Highway 12.

Valerie S., an eyewitness, claimed that the convoy consisted
of "eighteen white flatbed semi trucks followed by two dark
vans, no (license) tags, no lettering. The flatbeds were
carrying vehicles completely covered with tarps (tarpaulin or
canvas covers--J.T.) We saw M.P.s (Military Police) in black
BDUs (battle dress uniforms) with weapons on their backs.
They stopped traffic while the trucks passed through. It's
unbelievable but I've seen it with my own eyes."

On Wednesday, March 10, 1999, reporters for the online
paper All Texas News had a strange encounter with United
Nations troops on the south side of the Rio Grande.

The incident took place in Reynosa, a city on Camino
(Highway) 40 in Tamaulipas state, approxmately 144
kilometers (90 miles) northeast of Monterrey.

Deciding to check out persistent rumors of UN "Blue
Helmets" in Reynosa, the All Texas News crew crossed the
International Bridge at Hidalgo, Texas and drove south. As
they approached the Mexican city, they reportedly
encountered men in uniform "complete with a UN symbol and
a blue beret."

In Reynosa itself was a sign that read Zona NN.UU. (Acronym
for Naciones Unidas, Spanish for United Nations--J.T.)

Officer Enrique Santa Maria Guerrero of Mexico's Policia
Federal reportedly told the news crew that "'the UN has been
here for months,' but he doesn't know why," adding, "'They
wait in a building, smoke and do nothing but watch us.'"

The UN "observers" arrived "'late last year, and now they
seem to be here to stay,'" the crew reported Guerrero as
saying, "'We don't need UN men on our border.'"

Nor are the UN troops particularly popular with the civilian
residents of Reynosa. The crew interviewed Armando, a local
bartender, who said, "'They don't have to abide by our laws.
They come here in the evening and order us around and
almost never leave tips. They urinate on the bathroom walls.
No one wants to serve them.'"

The reason for the UN military presence in Reynosa is
unknown. (See WorldNet Daily for March 9 and 10, 1999.
See also All Texas News for March 11, 1999, "United Nations
Personnel in Mexico?")

from the UFO Files...

1937: MAPINGUARY GOES ON A RAMPAGE

For over a hundred years, the existence of Mapinguary, the
Bigfoot of Brazil, was folklore mostly confined to the Rio
Araguaia valley in the state of Mato Grosso do Sul. But all that
changed one March night in 1937.

"In March and April, 1937, strange stories came over the
telegraph wire to Rio (de Janeiro, then capital of Brazil--J.T.)
and Sao Paulo. An immense, ape-like monster had come out
of the unknown and started a real reign of terror round the
country bordering the Rio Araguaia."

In Barra do Garcas, 500 kilometers (300 miles) east of
Cuiaba, "swooping down on cattle ranches and fazendas
(farms--J.T.) this mysterious monster roared in the blackness
of the tropic night like the father of ten thousand demons
come out of Hell for a lively holiday."

Fazendeiros, "who all the long night had remained
indoors...crept out, shaking, to find dozens of yellow cattle, of
old Spanish origin, lying dead on the pampas, their tongues
torn out."

"Round the carcasses of several wild cattle which would
charge a jaguar at night...there were great man-like footprints,
some eighteen inches (about 45 centimeters) long."

Across the river in Aragarcas, "Night fell, and again came the
horrible roaring from the dark. No nerves could stand it, and
as soon as dawn was judged safe, a great trek of
panic-stricken Brazilians headed for the nearest outpost of
civilization."

There were other reports of slaughtered cattle, some as far
south as Ponte Branca, 240 kilometers (150 miles) from
Barra do Garcas. "None of the fierce cattle, lying dead,
showed any signs of a struggle with what had leapt out at
them out of the darkness of a Mato Grosso night."

The Mapinguary rampage lasted for three weeks and made
the major newspapers in Rio and Sao Paulo. (See O Globo
of Sao Paulo for March 28, 1937. See also Secret Cities of
Old South America by Harold T. Wilkins, copyright 1952,
reprinted 1998 by Adventures Unlimited Press, Kempton,
Illinois, pages 304 and 305.)

FUN UFO WEBSITES

Be sure to check out the photo gallery at UFOINFO, our
parent site, this week. John Hayes has a new photo of a
UFO that was photographed over Pisac, Peru in August
1998. Log on any time at http://ufoinfo.com

Back issues of UFO Roundup can be accessed,
downloaded and read at our webpage. Feel free to drop in
and browse at this URL: http://ufoinfo.com/roundup

That's it for this week. To our readers in Ireland, have a happy
Saint Patrick's Day on Wednesday. And I haven't forgotten
you readers in Wales--enjoy Saint David's Day. We'll be back
next week with more saucer news from around the planet,
brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."
See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1999 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news
items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in newsgroups
provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name
and list the date of the issue in which the item first appeared.








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   Mar > Mar 16

                 MJ-12 - From Tim Cooper's Typewriter To You

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:48:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:35:57 -0500
Subject: MJ-12 - From Tim Cooper's Typewriter To You


Below is an excerpt from a log of the United Kingdom UFO
Network -IRC-(internet relay chat) meeting held on Tuesday
23rd February 1999.  Timothy Good interviewed by Raine.

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/mar/m13-017.shtml

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> With regard to the Majestic documents is
Tim aware and if so what does he think of the new MJ docs
currently being investigated by Stanton Friedman and others.

<Tim_Good> I'm not convinced by the majority of them,
particularly since the so-called MJ 1st Annual Report is
identical in typeface and style to a couple of letters to
me from Timothy Cooper in 1991.TG

---

This is typical Anglo-Saxon understatement, which is unusual
in the UFO field.  The idiosyncrasies of individual letters and
numbers in the MJ12 1st Annual Report and a letter to Tim Good
from Tim Cooper have amazing number of similarities.  Here are
the Zingers!  The crowded letters, letters that are above the
line, letters which don't hit head on and other matches of
unique features.

Tim Good recently sent examples of Cooper's letters to Barry
Greenwood, however now that he is going public, I must say
Good has become a stand up guy.

We need more examples of Cooper's typewritten material.  If
you have some, send it along.  LET'S NAIL THESE TURKEYS!

The Word is not Truth.  THE TRUTH WILL OUT!  You can run
advertisements in national newspapers and you can display
shoddy research to millions on Art Bell, but the truth
will out!

It is time to stop taking black eyes from hoaxers and shoddy
researchers.  Its time for decent ufologists who are trying
to get at the truth to fight back!
--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135






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   Mar > Mar 16

                   Re: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference

From: Stephen Lewis <stephen.lewis@tsl.state.tx.us>
Date: 15 Mar 1999 15:06:15 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:41:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference


>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:29:54 -0500
>Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:12:48 -0500
>Subject: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference

>With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>List members may be (my opinion: should be) eager to make
>their way to the conference below, to be held in London at
>the RSA over 1-2 May this year; of which news reached me
>today.

YeHaw! Someone else finally noticed this event.

I posted a notice of this event back in December of last year:

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/dec/m18-012.shtml

But I probably should have better labeled it considering its
relevance to the continuing threads on this list regarding the
physical reality of abduction experiences; ie - do these
Imaginal Experiences represent a purely psychomechanical
phenomena or another ontological reality?

I'm going! I already have my conference tickets and travel
arrangements. Is anybody else on the list going to London?!

I'm a little shocked that Mr. Brookesmith was unaware
considering his cohort Paul Devereux is one of the organizers
and speakers. "Such is life."

BTW, the complete title of Jacques Vallee's paper is: "Rise of
the Replicants: 4 Scenarios Impacting Consciousness in the Years
2000-2025." I suspect this is in light of the hybridization
theme within the abduction narrative as well as Vallee's
knowledge of Phil Dick's use of replicants in PKD's book _Do
Androids Dream of Electric Sheep_, aka Bladerunner.

See y'all there!

SMiles Lewis
recently appointed:
MUFON State Section Director for Travis &
Williamson Counties
http://www.elfis.net/AUSTIN/MUFON/
mailto:elfis@io.net






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   Mar > Mar 16

                   Re: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:29:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:48:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference



>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:29:54 -0500
>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>Subject: Otherworld Reality

Good morrow to you and your kin kind Sir

>With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>List members may be (my opinion: should be) eager to make
>their way to the conference below,

I took note at this

>TICKETS:
>2-days: $175/ L110.
>1-day: $100 /L60.

WHAT!!!!!!

Sixty quid for a one day ticket, one hundred and ten pounds
Stirling of the queens finest for a two day ticket? Is over
night accommodation with ladies in waiting included with the
ticket price? Or has the notable Duke of Pomp and Circumstance
made a humble mistake??

--

    In an infinite universe infinitely anything is possible.
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
            UFO page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/






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   Mar > Mar 16

                Re: Where Has All the Bromine Gone, Long Time

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:36:13 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:05:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Where Has All the Bromine Gone, Long Time


>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:07:07 -0500
>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Where Has All the Bromine Gone, Long Time Passing...

>Recently there was a thread concerning the Billy Meier contactee
>story and Bromine, Chlorine, CFCs and their relationship to the
>ozone layer.

>The following article which appeared in the NY Times today
>provides a background on some of the scientific and economic
>issues involved.


Gary,

Thanks for posting that article. I had not known if methyl
bromide was still being used a lot or what. I hope the new, more
natural substitute, works out OK. And I wonder if methyl bromide
residuals have had any bad effects on human health?

  Jim Deardorff





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   Mar > Mar 16

                     Re: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'..

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:15:23 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:11:52 -0500
Subject: Re: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'..


>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: 'TR-3B' and 'UFO Revelation'..
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:56:41 -0000
>TR-3B??

>This utter nonsense about the so-called (and pretty impossible)
>"TR-3B" is indicative of the problem we face. If it's military
>it has to invoke "anti-gravity" technology even though there is
>limited evidence to support the theory that electrogravitic
>systems have been developed and tested. We have so-called
>'insiders' babbling on about all kinds of 'alien-acquired'
>technology and we are _expected_ to believe them in advance of any
>remotely credible evidence. These insiders get basic facts about
>conventional aircraft wrong and so how can we accept their word
>on more advanced unconventional aircraft projects?

Well, Tim,

I can't say for sure about the TR-3B, but if you look back to
the Dec. 1991 issue of Popular Mechanics Magazine, you will find
a projected drawing of the TR-3A on the cover. It is definately
a delta shaped, but not as dramatic as the alleged TR-3B.

Can I therefore say that the TR-3B does not exist because it is
somewhat different in design?

It says of the TR-3A: "laser target designator and tactical
recondnaissance aircraft:  our secret weapon in the Persian Gulf
War."

I was told that the BBC video taped the first 24 hours of th
Persian Gulf War, i.e., Desert Storm, and that if one can get a
copy of that 24 hours of video, one will find the TR-3A caught
on that video.

To this point, I have been unable to procure a copy.  When a
request was made, we were told that only Journalists or TV and
News media were allowed access to the footage. Maybe you should
try your hand at accquiring this footage.


>The UFO "community" - that fractious body - has been played like
>a piano for 50 years and there is little evidence to suggest
>that it won't keep pushing out the alien propaganda for its'
>masters for years to come.

That "fractious body" was first born out of "sky watchers"
during WW II.  They were trained observers, watching the coast
lines and hartlands of most all countries throughout the world.
When they spotted German, Japanese, American, Russian, Or
Chineese Planes, their reports were taken very seriously.  But,
let these same trained spotters report UFOs, and all of a
sudden, they are not considered reliable sources of information.
How can that be Tim? What has happened to make them any less
credible than when they were sighting enemy aircraft? Could it
simply be that what they were now reporting "was not suppose to
exist?"  Does that mean that it "did not exist?"

It is easy enough to discredit the average lay person, but what
of the trained military and civilian aviators who report this
activity on a fairly regular basis? Are they less credible?

I tend to agree with you that "part" of UFOs are Earth Made
Technology, and have been for the last 65 years or so. But I
still think that there has to be a 10% window through which the
ETH can express itself.

>Nevertheless the truth is slowly starting to emerge and one
>wonders exactly what will be revealed in the new batch of 1,500
>pages of documents to be released to me on 1950s US discplane
>projects via FOIA.

You really think "the truth is slowly starting to emerge?"
Ha,ha,ha...dream on.  We of the Fracturous Body will NEVER and
I mean NEVER be told the whole TRUTH, by Those who Govern this
World...Take that to the bank and deposit it!!!

>If "Updates" readers want to read something sensible on military
>aircraft technologies then "UFO Revelation" is the book for you.
>Forget the smears, lies and Ufologically inspired disinformation
>and pay just $10 for some much-needed truth......


No thanks.  I have read enough books based on others "opinions."
I prefer to have my own, thank you...After all, My opinion is
just a good as anyone elses.

REgards, Mike

 Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
 ICQ#:7508455
 BBS: (502) 683-3026
 Fax: (502) 686-7394
 Home: (502) 683-6811
        ---






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   Mar > Mar 16

                        Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:41:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:24:40 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'
>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 99 12:38:51 PST

>>Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 00:41:14 -0500
>>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'
>>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 99 12:50:40 PST

>>>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 00:03:53 -0500
>>>>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>>>>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>><snip>

>>It is obvious that my messages on J. Allen Hynek have hit home
>>and hit hard as both you and Mr. Sandow have chosen not to
>>respond to my final post in the series, Re: 25 Rules of
>>Disinformation.

As usual, the always amusing Mr. Clark gets right to the point
by missing it entirely.  First, he deliberately misattributes
the list of "25 Rules of Disinformation" to me.  You know, Mr.
Clark, when you are a guest on someone else's list you should
refrain from short-changing the host!  It was, after all, our
moderator EBK who posted the militia group's list!

Here is the header of Errol's posting from the UFOMind archive:

>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 14:29:11 -0500
>Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 14:29:11 -0500
>Subject: 25 Rules of Disinformation

<snip>

>ebk

<snip>

>Courtesy of American Patriot Friends Network and Walt

<snip>

After Errol was kind enough to post the above list I simply
picked up on it as a foil for some timely commentary.

>Gary Alevy dreams on, and his dreams, as always, are doozies.

>Let's get right to the point:

>Do you, Mr. Alevy, believe Greg Sandow and me to be agents of an
>intelligence agency?  Since "disinformation" -- the list you
>provided, by the way, apparently came from a militia group; I
>guess we know which side you're on -- is a term specifically
>associated with intelligence and counterintelligence operations,
>I shall assume the answer is yes unless I hear otherwise.

>So let's be even more specific:

>(1) Specifically which agency or agencies are Greg and I
>associated with?

>(2) What evidence, aside from our refusal to accept your
>pronouncements on paranoid faith, do you have for such an
>association?

<snip>

Let us begin with the idea that Mr. Clark is acting as an agent
for one or another of our alphabet intelligence agencies, as his
mentor Allen Hynek undoubtedly was at one time.  Believe it or
not, the question has become, for me, moot.  That is, the sad
performance of Mr. Clark in his exchanges with me have left me
convinced that only the most incompetent of agencies could even
think of employing him!  Hey, folks, I have a high enough
opinion of the folks over at Langley and Fort Meade NOT to wish
Jerry Clark on them!  So that isssue is closed, at least for me.

The same applies to Mr. Sandow, for whom Mr. Clark now appears
to be spokesman.

That is, my final message in the "Disinformation" exchange
destroyed the credibility of Mr. Sandow, who obviously was
talking straight through his hat vis-a-vis Dr. Hynek and his
"Special Report" on his fellow astronomers. Neither Messrs.
Clark nor Sandow replied to this message because none could
possibly be made, other than abject surrender and apology.
Thus, silence reigned.

For those unaware of my "amusing effort", as Mr. Clark has
labeled it check the UFOMind UFO UpDates archive for the post
which includes the Hynek Klassic "Special Report".

     The link to this document is:

     http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/feb/m03-002.shtml

     Re: 25 Rules of Disinformation
     Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:54:21 -0500

When I first encountered this List a couple of years ago I was
pleased to find on it the leading lights of modern ufology.
Little did I know then how disappointed I would one day become.
That is, the quality of the "would be agents" and some of the
"leading intellects" on this list have been shown to be second
rate at best.

I would hope that the qualifications for employment, by whatever
agencies may be plying the UFO ocean, are high enough to
preclude the use of such as Mr. Clark, who, has shown himself
incapable of accurately attributing even postings on this list.

And as for Mr. Sandow and his one liner response to the above
referenced post, "Dream on, Gary. Maybe you're just not worth
responding to".

Well, having Mr. Clark speak for Greg as his spokesman says it
all.

Ah, for the good old days when men were men and intelligence
agents, were intelligent!

Gary Alevy

------------------------------------------------------------
***  J. Allen Hynek where are you now that we need you?  ***
------------------------------------------------------------






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   Mar > Mar 16

                     Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed

From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:06:29 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:43:51 -0500
Subject: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed


On Friday evening I was arrested at my home at 17.15 by the
local police. I was then taken to West Bridgford police station,
where I was held overnight till 08.30 when I was transported by
road to Rotherham magistrates court. (45 miles away)

To appear before the magistrate regarding the council tax that I
owe. the prosecution wished that I be committed to prison..

At 11.00 Saturday morning I went before the magistrate, the
prosecution failed to attend and the magistrate dismissed the
charges against myself. and also withdrew the warrant for my
arrest...

The Magistrate suggested that I open a dialogue with the local
council.to which I agreed that I should..

What is more disturbing is the actions of David Clark who if you
like is my main oponent, regarding my investigationinto the
Sheffield Incident, and my conclusions into the incident based
on the data that I have collated.

David Clark, had sent my phone number to the Rotherhampolice in
a faxed memo to the Rotherham police station.which is only a 1
minute walk to the police station from Dr Clark's office.
Finishing off his memo with something to the likes of,

"If I can be of any other assistance then do not hesitate to
contact me"

I was shown the relervant document by an officer at the
Nottingham West Bridgford police station where I was being held,
after I suggested that it was Dr David Clark who had supplied my
Ex directory telephone number which I included at the bottom of
an article I posted on sky watch regarding my other
investigation into the possible connection with CFS and alien
abduction.

The officer showed me the document that had been faxed in full
to West Bridgford police station, complete with my phone number
that David Clark had obtained from either the Sky Watch list
service or from one of his collaboratars Because of the fact
that Dr Clark and his supprters are desperate to have me either
silenced or stopped from presenting my case into the Sheffield
incident in a public arena.

The reasons for this are either 1. That because Dr Clark, Andy
Roberts, and Tim Mathewsin paticular have been very vocal in
their attempts to discredit myself and therefore my research
into the incident. With some paticuarly underhand behaviour from
the above three it could be that they are protecting there
position at the expense of my reputation in favour of not
upholding the facts about the case.

To which there are some glaring points that needs answering
thatDr Clark and his supporters just seem to ignore.

Any one who wishes to know what these points are should attend
the Jume 5th 1999 Bufora Summer lecture at the university of
London summer lectures (oposite Maddamm Tu'sauds) Where I will
be presenting my case, for the first time in the UK..including
audio converations involving the case.

Details from Malcoum Robinson at Judithjaafar@compuserve.com

I hereby state that Bufora neither support nor disagree as an
organisation with my findings, but they do feel that because
there is a difference of opinion among two individuals who have
done extensive research into this case that in the interests of
free speech that both parties should be allowed to be heard in a
public arena. They are allowing myself to present my case and to
simply allow individuals and  the membership to decide for
themselves.

And that is all I ask.

It could be that

In-light the revelations that Tim Matthews was either 1. A  Neo
Natzi racist involved with the likes of the BNP with his linkes
to the Combat 18 racists.

2. An operative of some some inteligence group, who needed
inside information, on the plans of these obviously right wing
groups.

And if that is the case I applaud Tim Matthews as he is now
known in the dangerous job he under took, which would assist in
the protection of all non white's in the UK.

However for all you people state side have you ever heard the
term.

"Once O.N.I always O.N.I."

If Tim is still involved in the inteligence gathering operation
that we know is occurring in all countries.. Then in the
proffeing of supportfor Dr Clark's research to which I totally
disasgree with his conclusions.

Should be kept under scrutiny.

Comments please Tim?

The main action that Dr Clark has done here by supplying my home
telephone number to the police, which would lead to the police
obtaining my home address through phone records. I believe is
not because he is just a good citizen doing his duty.. Is
directly linked to to desperate need by these people to have me
silenced and discredited by any means available into my
Investigation into the Sheffield incident.

Dr Clark would have been better staying out of my personal life
in light of our disagreements into the Sheffield case.

The reason for these actions that Dr Clark has undertaken was
simplyto have me arrested by the police instead of my self
arranging to turn up at court in light of the charges regarding
the Civil Matterr Not criminal as other's have alleged. If you
bring your self before the court, it shows that you were not
trying to avoid the situation. Dr Clark and his collaborators
wished for me to be given a custodial sentence by the court that
they could then post about the various media's available to them
including Updates.

To further attempt to discredit myself and therefore my research
into the above mentioned case. To also cause myself the most
inconveiniance

These are not the rantings of some paranoid idiot.. these are
the facts and it is plain to see.

I have spoken with Malcoum Robinson about things that have
transpired and he is discusted with David Clark actions in this
matter..

However as the magistrate dismissed the charge's against
myself..I thank Dr Clark for acting in such an underhand
manner..in the hope of gaining more mud to throw at my
reputation.

It has back fired on this occassion..

I an still in the process of preparing the paper work with my
legal representative regarding the future libel action against
Mr Andy Robert's, I ask Andy as I know you are reading this to
please supply your home address either via E.B.K or as a direct
posting to this list so that the correct legal papers can be
served to your private address.

(Third time of asking)

Something that I find very alarming is the fact that as press
officer. for Bufora Dr David Clark, has not Once attempted to
stifle the very critical remark's and comments made of Bufora,
by his collaboratorand friend from way back in university days
Andy Roberts.

If he feels at all comprimised by his choices available, I offer
that Dr David Clark offer his resignation as press officer for
Bufora.

In light of his inability to uphold the right of free speech, in
view of his personal choices that he has displayed which is a
clear conflict of interests.

In the fundemental policy of the
BUFORA ORGANISATION..
Max Burns
AlienHype@aol.com






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   Mar > Mar 16

                     SPI News From England February 1999

From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:41:32 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:56:11 -0500
Subject: SPI News From England February 1999


SPI NEWS FROM ENGLAND
FEBRUARY 1999
COMPILED BY MALCOLM ROBINSON.

(Beware, Malcolm is in a philosophical and deliberating mood
this month !)

THE TIM MATTHEWS/IUN SOUTHPORT UFO CONFERENCE.

The IUN (Independent UFO Network) was a big force in British
UFOlogy a few years back, and their magazine UFO BRIGANTIA was a
very good read.  The IUN at that time had a number of good
researchers within it, Philip Mantle and Dave Clark, to name but
two.  The main force behind the IUN at that time was researcher
and author Andy Roberts.  The IUN folded some years ago, and it
was a big loss I feel to British UFOlogy at that time. However
Andy Roberts is now once more the driving force behind the new
and revamped IUN and they had their launch day on Saturday the
26th of February at Tim Matthews Southport UFO Conference.

Both Judy and I braved the atrocious weather conditions as we
drove up to Southport.  The rain was so bad that it was
sometimes hard to see where you were going. The windscreen
wipers couldn't get rid of the rain quick enough and it was in
part, 'very scary' (especially driving past those heavy-laden
articulated lorries).  Thankfully we got to Southport O.K.,
settled down in our hotel, and the following day, with our
friend and UFO colleague Gloria Dixon, (BUFORA's Director of
Investigations), headed off to the venue for the conference.  A
large blackboard with the words 'UFO CONFERENCE' met our gaze as
we neared the venue, whereupon a large and smiling Tim Matthews
thrust his hand into ours and welcomed us inside.  Inside, we
found a large sized hall with smaller ante-room nearby which was
filled with the usual UFO paraphernalia, i.e. UFO books,
magazines, posters and pendants, keyrings, you name it, you
could find it here. They were even selling cartoon posters
taking the mickey out of UFO researchers such as Jenny Randles,
Tony Dodd, and Harry Harris, (sad) !

The hall was by now filling up, and the surprise factor was,
that looking around, I could see more UFO researchers from
different parts of the country and from different societies than
there were members of the public.  Researchers I saw were, Tony
Eccles, John Heptonstall, Dave Sankey, Mike Wooten, Andy
Roberts, Dave Clarke, Eric Morris, to name but a few.  The first
speaker of the day was Jerry Anderson of UFO Kent.  I had heard
much about Jerry but I had never met the man nor heard any of
his lectures.

Jerry presented a number of cases from his files, each one
proving to be more interesting than the last.  I found Jerry to
be a very good speaker, and someone  whom I could have listened
to all day, indeed, it was sad that he had to finish as some of
the cases, peppered with his use of audio tape, acid tape and
video, were cases that I had never heard of before.

Following on from Jerry was seasoned researcher and author,
Jenny Randles. Jenny spoke about the infamous Peter Day film.
As most UFOlogists should know, that was the piece of film which
depicts an orange ball of light moving from left to right above
a range of trees.  Peter Day swears blind that it was a UFO, but
research by Jenny and others proved it to be dumped aviation
fuel set alight and burning as it fell to Earth.  The reason
which, of course, was that the aircraft that deposited the fuel
was in trouble, and would shortly crash in an area which is now
known as Milton Keynes, (thankfully Milton Keynes wasn't
built/around at that time or we would have had a major
catastrophe on our hands.)  Peter even today won't accept
Jenny's theory, and still maintains that it was a UFO that he
saw.  Jenny respects his view but of course doesn't agree with
it.  During the break, Tim Matthews gave a presentation in
regards to his findings concerning triangular-shaped aircraft,
which he firmly believes are our own technology, that these
triangular shaped 'UFOs' are not alien space-craft but are new,
sophisticated aircraft currently being flown throughout the
skies of the world.  I didn't manage to catch all of Tim's
lecture, as myself, Judith, Gloria Dixon and Tony Eccles held a
brief impromptu BUFORA meeting between ourselves out in the
foyer.  (What a place to hold a BUFORA meeting, in the camp of
the IUN !!!).

After another break (and meeting up with London Weekend
Television researcher David Donnelly who came up to see me and
others), it was the turn of the charismatic Andy Roberts, that
bastion of UFOlogy  whom you either love or loathe !  Andy spoke
about the famous Berwyn Mountain case, that of an alleged UFO
crash in the Berywn Mountains of Wales.  Andy presented his
findings that a UFO was not the cause of the event, that it was
just a mixture of ordinary mundane events that only served to
confuse and confound other researchers into believing that a UFO
was behind it.  It was good to see Andy not get heckled this
time, for the last time I saw Andy present this case (at the
Lapis UFO Conference in Lytham St Anne's a few months ago) he
was given a hard time of it by the audience !!

Following on from Andy was Dr. David Clarke.  Dave was
presenting his findings into what's now know as 'The Sheffield
Incident'.  This  is a case which some feel to be the result of
a crash caused by a UFO, however Dave will have none of it. He
feels that this case  falls into the category of an IFO, and
that like the Berywn Mountain case, there were a number of
elements, all coming together, which only confounded people into
believing that a UFO shot down a Tornado Jet.  It's a major
case, and is too much to go into here, and Dave certainly
presented interesting findings which did look impressive.  Of
course, this was only one side of the coin. Another researcher,
Max Burns, would have us believe differently, that a UFO was
seen that night and was chased by a number of Tornado jets.  Max
and David don't see eye to eye on this one, and there has been
an extreme wealth of tit-for-tat tirades on the web sites, not
only between Dave and Max, but between others as well.  Even I
am coming in for some stick for having Max Burns as my first
speaker for the BUFORA London lectures.  Some people believe
that Max shouldn't have his say, that he is talking nonsense,
but I am of the opinion that I live here in the U.K., that
everyone has the right to their opinion, this isn't Russia, we
don't stop people talking here, and it will need to be a very
brave man who will tell me not to put Max Burns on a BUFORA
platform in June.

Max will have his say in regards to this case, that is a fact.
The public have a right to hear both sides of a story, not just
one side.  And although I found Dr David Clarke's lecture ,which
served up many facts, very interesting, I wish to hear Max's
version of events also in order to make up my mind.  Since when
does any UFO researcher believe one version of events without
trying to find out what someone else is saying about it. ?
Hasn't the public a right to make up their own mind !!!

Please note that Max Burns is presenting his side of the story
of the Sheffield Incident at the BUFORA London Lecture. Please
note this date and be there.

THE SHEFFIELD UFO INCIDENT MAX BURNS,
June 5th, at the University of Westminster, 35
Marylebone Road, London, NW1,
(opposite Madame Tussauds).  Time 2:00pm.

Please try and be there, bring a friend, mention it on your web
site and E-mails.  UFOlogy needs debate, but ultimately UFOlogy
needs honesty and a desire to get to the truth and not try and
confuse the issue.  Something undoubtedly happened that night,
and we need to know everything before we can decide who is
right, and who it wrong.  It would be wrong of me just to put
Max Burns on a BUFORA platform about this case, so let me make
it clear that Dr. David Clarke has accepted my invitation to
present to BUFORA his version of events in regards to this
incident.  The date for Dr. David Clarke's lecture will be given
in our next month's web site placements, so look out for that
one.


BUFORA LONDON LECTURES.

As you may know from last month's web news, I have taken over
the BUFORA London Lectures.  I wrote to over 70 people asking
them if they would like to give a lecture to BUFORA. It's early
days yet,  but the response so far has been good.  I have lined
up speakers for not only this year, but also the year 2000 and
2001.  I shall be presenting the full package of speakers in a
future web site placement, so look out for that one.

E-mail Malcolm at  spi_spi@hotmail.com

=A9 SPI ENGLAND 1999.











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   Mar > Mar 16

                        Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 99 10:21:19 PST
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:26:58 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'


>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:41:27 -0500
>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'
>>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 99 12:38:51 PST

>>>Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 00:41:14 -0500
>>>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'
>>>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 99 12:50:40 PST

>>>>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 00:03:53 -0500
>>>>>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>>>>>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>>>Subject: Re: 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'

>>><snip>

>>>It is obvious that my messages on J. Allen Hynek have hit home
>>>and hit hard as both you and Mr. Sandow have chosen not to
>>>respond to my final post in the series, Re: 25 Rules of
>>>Disinformation.

>As usual, the always amusing Mr. Clark gets right to the point
>by missing it entirely.  First, he deliberately misattributes
>the list of "25 Rules of Disinformation" to me.  You know, Mr.
>Clark, when you are a guest on someone else's list you should
>refrain from short-changing the host!  It was, after all, our
>moderator EBK who posted the militia group's list!

>>Courtesy of American Patriot Friends Network and Walt

>After Errol was kind enough to post the above list I simply
>picked up on it as a foil for some timely commentary.

I have learned that just about any time spent with Mr. Alevy on
his particular obsessions is time poorly spent.  He's just
wasted my time and yours by not denying that the 25 Rules of
Disinformation, to which he has continually referred and whose
contents he evidently endorses, is from a group of militia
loons. As the saying goes, by their friends shall ye know them.
No wonder Mr. A believes Allen Hynek was an intelligence agent.
Working, no doubt, for the New World Order.


>Let us begin with the idea that Mr. Clark is acting as an agent
>for one or another of our alphabet intelligence agencies, as his
>mentor Allen Hynek undoubtedly was at one time.  Believe it or
>not, the question has become, for me, moot.  That is, the sad
>performance of Mr. Clark in his exchanges with me have left me
>convinced that only the most incompetent of agencies could even
>think of employing him!  Hey, folks, I have a high enough
>opinion of the folks over at Langley and Fort Meade NOT to wish
>Jerry Clark on them!  So that isssue is closed, at least for me.


Grow up, Gary.


Jerry Clark






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   Mar > Mar 16

                CPR-Canada News - 2,000 Giant Forest Rings In

From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:42:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:48:39 -0500
Subject: CPR-Canada News - 2,000 Giant Forest Rings In



CPR-Canada News
E-Mail Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada

March 16, 1999

_____________________________


SPECIAL REPORT

Over 2,000 "Giant Forest Rings" in Canada



There have been rumours and vague reports of large "forest
rings" in this country for some time now, but never anything
substantial.

However, in today's edition of our (new) national newspaper, The
National Post, (March 16, 1999) there is an almost full page
article on exactly this, entitled "Stranger than Science
Fiction".

The article outlines the discovery, since at least the early
1980's, of more than 2,000 such rings, in the forest regions of
northern Ontario and Quebec and various theories to explain
them. Fungus was ruled out by testing. The article centres
around the work of Jean Veillette, a geomorphologist with the
Geological Survey of Canada in Ontario, who first found the
rings on aerial photos.

The rings are perfectly round, ranging from "only" under 300
metres (!) to two kilometres (over a mile) across.

The rings are light-coloured, with sparse vegetation growth,
standing out against the darker colours of the surrounding
vegetation (inside and outside the rings), and are "depressed"
into the soil They are found typically in areas of
carbonate-rich soil and / or bedrock, located in forest regions
of black spruce, tamarack and pine trees.

Whether these have anything at all to do with crop circles per
se I don't know, but they are certainly intriguing, even if just
a natural phenomenon (?).

As I am swamped with other things right now, I don't have the
time to retype the article and post it; if anybody out there
could do so, and send me a text copy and / or post it to UFO
Updates or similar list, it would be most appreciated. I will
then get a copy of the full text posted on the CPR-Canada web
site.

For anybody interested, the article is on page A17 of the March
16 edition of The National Post. The article also contains two
aerial photos, one showing a ring in Quebec which is 500 metres
across.

This report may be reprinted and distributed; please reprint in
its entirety, with corresponding links and contact info.

Thank you!

Paul Anderson
Director
CPR-Canada

_____________________________


See News and Reports on the CPR-Canada web site
for links to current news updates and an archive of
previous news, as well as information on other
CPR-Canada resources:

Main CPR-Canada Web Site (frames):
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310

News and Reports:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/news.html

Crop Circle Report Archive (Canada) Pre-1990 to 1999:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reports.html

_____________________________


CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of
Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, an affiliate of
Circles Phenomenon Research International,
initiated in 1995 by future studies researcher
Paul Anderson, also founder and director of
The Millennium Project.

CPR-Canada News is published periodically, with
the latest news, information and web site updates
and is available free by subscription; to be added to
or removed from the mailing list, send your request,
including either "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or
"unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address
to: psa@direct.ca

CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions,
by the tel / fax / e-mail hotlines or mail. Forward
all correspondence to:

E-Mail:
psa@direct.ca

Tel / Fax:
604.731.8522

Mail:
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC
V6J 1J

____________________________


=A9 CPR-Canada, 1999








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   Mar > Mar 16

                   Re: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference

From: Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:41:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:24:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference

With the compliments of His Grace:

>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:29:34 +0000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference


>WHAT!!!!!!

>Sixty quid for a one day ticket, one hundred and ten pounds
>Stirling of the queens finest for a two day ticket? Is over
>night accommodation with ladies in waiting included with the
>ticket price? Or has the notable Duke of Pomp and Circumstance
>made a humble mistake??

At these prices (and I should say I have no idea how many seats
have to be filled to break even) at least the organizers will be
able to play the speakers their expenses. UNLIKE SOME conference
organizers in the UK who seem to like to hear the sound of
drumming fingers for 12 months and more. No names, no pack drill,
at least if I get paid by the end of the month. And no, I'm not
talking about Fortean Times, who do the business most
efficiently.

This is not some gee-whizzer's UFO conference in Leeds; it's
cutting-edge stuff, at a tenner sterling a top-rank talking head.
That doesn't mean I expect to agree with everything, or even
anything entirely, that I hear, but attenders will surely be
getting value for money.

And what do you think it costs to ship six out of eleven speakers
from North America to the UK, put them up somewhere half decent
in London, feed them occasionally - bit of crust and mousetrap,
you know - and fly them home again? I don't think Stan Krippner &
Co would much appreciate being crated up and freighted as
livestock, somehow.

best wishes
Pennycatcher D. Meanygroat
Flint Skin





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   Mar > Mar 16

                           Skulls And More Skulls

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:38:01 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:36:07 -0500
Subject: Skulls And More Skulls


Hi everyone.

There are a lot of strange skulls out there but their connection
to E.T.s or the UFO phenonmena has never been firmly establish.
You can check out the web sites below for some of the skulls
that have made the news in UFO circles.

http://paradigm-sys.com/ae/lib/archeo/skulls.html

http://www.holman.net/ufo/alienskeleton/index.html

http://www.starchildproject.com/page-01.html

One skull (and parts of a skeleton) that we examined here last
year which was believed to be a "Nomo" or elf (or possibly E.T.)
from Ecuador turned out to be the altered bones of a very young
human child.

Other skulls that are definitely not human, such as several
different skulls made of quartz, have more dubious origins and
no obvious UFO connections.

That said, there is one important account of an alleged E.T.
mandible (or jaw) that was handled by a dental technician which
was described in much detail in the late Leonard Stringfield's
UFO Crash/ Retrievals: Search for Proof in a Hall of Mirrors,
Status Report VII.  This E.T. jaw was brought to the technician
by military officers stationed at Wright-Patterson AFB.

Has anyone tired to see if this jaw, also of an alleged E.T.,
closely fits where the missing jaw on the Lloyd Pye/Mark Bean
E.T. skull should have been?  A usually skeptical professor in
dentistry here was much more impressed with this alleged E.T.
mandible than some other suspected E.T. specimens I have shown
her in the past.  Does someone have more information regarding
this E.T. mandible?

Nick Balaskas







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   Mar > Mar 16

                        The '99 Southport Conference

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:11:52 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:03:11 -0500
Subject: The '99 Southport Conference


Countdown to the  Millennium!

I went to this one day conference in Southport, not to see our
illustrious leader of UFOMEK, Jerry Anderson, pontificate
proudly about his research, but to actually meet several people
that I know from the internet. I first saw the advertisement via
an email from Tim Matthews, him of MI5 connections, you know,
nudge nudge, wink, wink.

I emailed back to Tim to confirm that I would like to visit and
could Tim point me in the way of a reputable B&B. Tim replied
you need no B&B you can stay with me, now how's that for
northern hospitality for you? When I actually got there, it
turned out that Tim and his lovely wife Lynda, had only just
moved into their new house that very day! Sorry Tim haters, but
that puts Tim and Lynda at the top of the ladder for hospitality
as far as I am concerned.

Needless to say I offered my services the next morning to help
transport some of the equipment need for the days conference. I
was amazed how organised Tim and Lynda appeared to be, then I
discovered it was Lynda who was the organised one and that Tim
did indeed follow orders but the orders did not belong to that
of the MI5 but of his wife. Also for all you people who think of
Tim Matthews as a bit of a hard nut I now know differently. I
can't divulge such information in a public forum, but if you
care to ask me =85. Providing of course I do not get any death
threats from Tim I'll tell all!!

Anyway to the conference. The hall was nice and roomy, whilst
helping out with the seating arrangement's we discovered that we
have enough chairs for about one hundred and thirty people.
Later on when I did a quick count there only appeared to be ten
or fifteen empty seats, so I would say that the conference was
well attended.

First to speak was the entertaining Jerry Anderson,  mainly
about the Burmarsh incident that happened back on the eighth of
March, 1997. Jerry's talk was lively and entertaining, with the
audience enthralled at the goings on in the darkest, depth's of
the garden of England. There was so much interest in fact that
in the interval after his talk we nearly sold out of the
newsletter update on the incident. For those of you who did not
make it to the conference I am not about to give you a blow by
blow account of what each of the speakers talked about as I feel
I could do no justice to any of the speakers talk's.

Anyway, as I said after Jerry's talk there was a short interval
to peruse the small but quality stands purveying ufological
merchandise. In this short break I had the chance to meet Dr
David Clarke, Mike Wootten and Andy Roberts, also another
speaker at the conference. I must admit I was a little off put
by Dr David Clarke when I introduced myself. Hi I'm Sean
Jones., I said (or some such very similar). Yes, should I know
you? Came the reply. A little puzzled I responded, err, no I
don't think so, but you might have read my article in the UFO
Magazine called 101 Possible explanation for UFO's. Ahh, yes, I
thought that was quite good. Thank you I replied, the
conversation went down hill after that so I gave up. Perhaps it
was me or perhaps Dr Clarke's attention was on his colleagues?
Either way I felt a little perplexed. His talk however was
another matter.

Author and researcher Jenny Randles was on next. Her talk was
about the Peter Day footage and her in-depth investigation of
the video. Her results where not to the liking of some because
she effectively "solved" the case. Perhaps this is not the case
of a researcher turning skeptic but a researcher who is actively
trying to find some answers and is content if the chips fall to
a conventional explanation. I believe the latter myself. Jenny's
talks are a little methodical but that is pretty much like her
research so I was quite content to listen to her talk and
explanation of the lights in the footage claimed to be one of
the best.

At the conclusion of Jenny's talk another interval was had, this
time I purchased some munchies because I was hungry and the food
on offer looked quite appetising and was also quite cheap. Time
for another chat with one of the speakers of the conference,
this time it was Andy Roberts turn. I must admit that when I go
to a conference I like nothing more than meeting the people
involved and "grilling" them. Andy is quite an amiable fellow in
my opinion, and quite likeable. We spoke about his recent tete a
tete with Jerome Clarke on the UFO Updates mailing list, and how
American understanding of British Ufology is not up to the level
of understanding that we Brits have of American Ufology.

In the lunch time interim Tim Matthews gave his talk on man made
UFO's because the ufological bad egg, James Diss did not turn
up. I'm not sure whether this was down to a technical hitch
(like getting himself lost in Southport), or a genuine emergency
but either way Tim's talk got him a loud round of applause, and
rightfully so in my view as his work is well researched and
solidly grounded. For those of you who have not heard Tim's talk
I urge you to try and attend one of his conferences at some time
in the near future as his talk is both very interesting and
informative.

After the lunch break, in which Lynda made me a fantastic ham
salad sandwich, Dr David Clarke and Andy Roberts gave their
talks. Andy Roberts talk on the second great contender for the
British Roswell was well thought out and well documented. His
explanation of what happened on a dark hillside in Wales some
twenty plus years ago, made sense, and unfortunately explained
away another great British Roswell contender. If only we could
have had James Pulsar here to give a talk on Rendlesham we could
have had the best two contenders explained away. It would seem
that a suspected crash in the Llandrillo region of the Berwyn
mountains was nothing more than a set of circumstances all
compiled together in a most jumbled manner to create a story,
nay legend that some still want to believe is a major cover up
of yet another ufo crash. Not having been there on the night in
question I can't say what really happened but I will listen to
those who have researched the cases thoroughly. Dr Clarke's talk
was of course on the Sheffield incident in which both he and
Maxwell Burns have had a major bust up over. Dr Clarke's talk
was full of details that only someone who is fully immersed in
the situation can be, was. The how's why's and wherefore's along
with specific details made the whole case look like some naughty
RAF flyboys behaved in a most unbecoming manner. I will make the
effort to see Max Burn's talk at the Bufora conference this year
to try and hear the other side of the story for this is
certainly a well talked about incident and one that warrants
further investigation, even if only to confirm what looks like a
fully painted picture painted by Dr Clarke.

At the end of the conference Tim Matthews opened the floor up to
all that wanted to have a say about what was talked about or any
other Ufo issue or just to ask further question of the speakers.
Also I believe an attempt at getting the IUN formally launched
was implied. I'm sure many people who where there will remember
the Titanic speaker.

On the whole some might say the day was slanted towards the
sceptical but I think the day was devoted to real investigative
research on behalf of all of those who gave a talk.  Whether you
agreed with the results of the research or not, all of the cases
where researched thoroughly. And at the end of the day that is
the best we can hope to expect without actually having solid
evidence of ET or any of his cousins.



Sean Jones

--





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   Mar > Mar 16

                     2,000 Giant Forest Rings In Canada

From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:09:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:09:36 -0500
Subject: 2,000 Giant Forest Rings In Canada




>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:42:47 -0800
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
>Subject: CPR-Canada News - 2,000 Giant Forest Rings In Canada

>CPR-Canada News
>E-Mail Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada

>March 16, 1999
>SPECIAL REPORT

>Over 2,000 "Giant Forest Rings" in Canada

<snip>

>As I am swamped with other things right now, I don't have the
>time to retype the article and post it; if anybody out there
>could do so, and send me a text copy and / or post it to UFO
>Updates or similar list, it would be most appreciated. I will
>then get a copy of the full text posted on the CPR-Canada web
>site.

-----

National Post, Tuesday, March 16 1999

Page A17

DISCOVERY

Geology

A geochemist from Sudbury today unveils the latest theory to
explain the formation of giant rings in the forests of northern
Ontario and Quebec

Stranger than science fiction

By ELIZABETH SHILTS


From the ground, the backcountry of northern Ontario and
northwestern Quebec seems like typical boreal forest: endless,
dense stands of black spruce, tamarack, and pine, anchored in
moist, peaty ground. But flying over the region on a clear day
reveals a different terrain, marked with thousands of perfecily
round rings, reininiscent of the bizarre crop circles that have
confounded people for years.

Theories of how the rings were formed have emerged from every
scientific and not-so-scientific corner. Ufologists claim an
extraterrestrial influence; astronomers suggest meteor showers;
prospectors hope they signal diamond-bearing kimberlites (rare
igneous, blue-tinged rocks); and others have contemplated
unusual wind action or ancient permafrost features. "A colleague
once jokingly suggested they were from moose tied up to a peg,"
says Jean Veillette, a geomorphologist with the Geological
Survey of Canada, who has been studying the rings for more than
10 years.

Stewart Hamilton, a geochemist with the Ontario Geological
Survey in Sudbury, is about to unveil a theory which, at first,
seems as outlandish as UFOs. Today at the Prospectors and
Developers Association of Canada's annual convention, he will
show how the circles could be giant, natural batteries. The
battery hypothesis replaces a biological explanation, which Dr.
Velliette will disprove at the same convention.

Dr. Veillette became intrigued by the rings in the early 1980s,
when he noticed them on aerial photos he was using for a mapping
project in Quebec's Abitibi region. The light colour of the
rings results from sparse vegetation growth, which contrasts
with the dense tree cover inside and outside the ring. Most of
the rings measure less than 300 metres across, but the largest
is two kilometres wide.

"I recorded them as I went along," he says, "and noticed there
were more rings as I moved north." Since then, he has looked at
38,000 air photos and recorded more than 2,000 of the rings,
which seem to be concentrated in a band that stretches from
north of Lake Nipigon in Ontario to Matagami, Que. There is also
an isolated cluster on Anticosti Island at the mouth of the St.
Lawrence River.

Dr. Veillene consulted Jack Mollard, an aerial photography
exp,efl who was one of the first geologists to study the rings
in the lVGOs. Dr. Mollard suggested they were formed by a
fungus that spread out radially, similar to the way the
fairy-ring fungi leaves bleached rings on manicured lawns. He
believed the fungus formed a killing front, strangling and
weakening tree roots as ft spr6ad. If the theory were right,
trees should increase in age toward the centre of the circle
because they would have the most time to regenerate after the
flingal infection.

Myron Smith, a plant geneticist at Carleton University in
Ottawa,'also supported the biological view. He had previously
identified a fungus in Michigan, Amillaria bulbosa, that spread
across 15 hectares of hardwood forest, weighed more than 10,000
kilograms, and had been stable for more than 1,500 years. He
claimed it was among the largest and oldest living organisms.

"The images [of the rings] looked consistent with the focus of
infection;' says Dr. Smith. The fact that rings occurred in
various sizes and some rings stopped abruptly at rivers or
streams also made a case for the fungus theory But when,Mr.$mith
analyzed tissue samples from the trees, he found no sign of the
A. bulbosa fungus.

A more definative shot to the biological theory came with a
detailed botanical $tudy conduded over the past 2 years -which
was initiated by Dr. Veillette and Dr. Wes Bergeron, director of
foresi ecology an the University du Qudbec a' Montreal. Under
their direction, Jean-Franqois Giroux, a master's student, found
that trees did not increase in age toward the centre of the
circle as expected in Dr.Mollard's theory.

Mr. Giroux discovered another important feature: The soil
underlying the ring sits one to two metres lower than the
surrounding soil. In most cases, the depressions are filled with
a thick mat of peat that is poofly drained land allows only
trees such as tamaracks to grow. "Instead of a killing front,
[the decreased growth in the rings] is strictly a moisture
condition;' says Dr. Veilleffe. "In all fairness, we still do
not know that it isn't biological, but we have created doubt
about the vegetation theory"

He once again began searching for a common geological thread
among the rings. He discovered that, while they do not all sit
in the same bedrock, the main concentration of rings occurs in
is a band of carbonate-rich soil which spreads from Manitoba to
northwestern Quebec. Those on Anticosti Island also lie on an
isolated deposit of carbonate-rich bedrock and soil.

The soil type, along with the discovery of the rings' soil
depressions "are very exciting,,' says Mr. Hamilton.

After five years of research, he released a paper last spring
detailing a new model for finding mineral deposits buried deep
beneath thick clays or soils. The model, based on
electro-chemical processes in the earth, suggests that a mineral
deposit can act as a "natural battery in the ground that is
slowly and continually discharging."

He has extended his theory to include the rings. He believes
each ring could be acting as an individual battery; with a
mineral such as iron acting as the negative charge at the
circle's centre. As the negatively charged iron comes into
contact with the positively charged carbonate soils on the
circle's edge, it rusts, or oxidizes, leaving acidic conditions
that eat away at the soil, forming a depressed ring. What is
happening in the ring is "analogous to adding vinegar to baking
soda," says Mr. Hamilton. "Acid is produced at the edges and
dissolves away soil and the ground surface drops?'

He cautions that the negative charge could also be produced by
methane gas or upwelliiigs of ground water. Dr. Veillette says
Mr. Hamilton's theory certainly seems plausible. "We don't yet
know what they are, but we know what they are not. We are
getting closer to refining a model of what it all means."

Meanwhile, prospectors are chasing their own theory of what lies
hidden beneath the mysterious rings. Since last spring, Bob
Komarechka and three others from Sudbury have been staking
mineral claims in the area and have recently formed Diamtreme
Explorations Inc., hoping to strike it rich by finding minerals
below the ring surface. They began to stake after noticing that
the rings were similar in size to diamond-bearing kimberlite
pipes.

National Post





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   Mar > Mar 17

                       Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:08:15 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:43:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:54:09 -0400

Hi Stan, we converse again.

>I would point out that in about 1520 Magellan's ship took about
>2 years to go around the Earth. In the 19th century the goal was
>around the world in 80 days. Not too many years ago it took
>several days to circumnavigate the globe in an airplane. Now the
>shuttle does it in 90 minutes.

Isn't technology marvellous. Its growth is not predictable or in
a straight line, but we'll leave that to conspiracy theorists to
ponder over shall we?

>It takes roughly one year at 1G acceleration to get close to
>the speed of light (c). At 99.9% of c, one can go 37 Light Years
>in 20 months pilot time. At 99.99%c it only takes 6 months. and
>remember that Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli are about a billion
>years older than the sun and are less than a light year apart.

Not to be picky but we have spoken in the past about exceeding
the speed of light. _IF_ ZR is a million years older than our
sun, surely the race that _might_ live there could also be a
million years older? Therefore could they not exceed c, as they
as so more advance than us? As you said technology does not grow
at a set rate.

But back to the point, when trying to communicate with less
technologically developed races do we not try to establish a
common ground?

Whilst I neither agree or disagree with what is being posted it
never fails to get my goat when scientists always assume what we
know now is the limit of the universe. To quote from your above

>I would point out that in about 1520 Magellan's ship took about
>2 years to go around the Earth. In the 19th century the goal was
>around the world in 80 days. Not too many years ago it took
>several days to circumnavigate the globe in an airplane. Now the
>shuttle does it in 90 minutes.

What do you think the scientists of Magellan's day would say to
the comment that one day we would be able to circumnavigate the
globe in only ninety minutes?

>I will be talking about this in detail at The Intruders
>Conference in NYC on Saturday, April 10

I would actually love to come to this conference but my finances
will not allow it as I am in the process of buying a new house.

>On a cosmic scale ZR is just around the corner.

Also in the cosmic scale we the human race is less than an hour old
baby.


Sean Jones





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   Mar > Mar 17

                Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:07:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:52:22 -0500
Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network



>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:53:20 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network


<>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:50:09 -0500
>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network



>OK.  I now come to the points.  In about two weeks, I will
>introduce my first major research work, "Nothing is Revealed!"
>My name will not appear on the document, even though it was my
>money, my database, my files, my everything, went into creating
t>his wind breaking study on the phenom of UFO's and the
>abduction experience.  I use the word, "Phenom," because I am
>>have that problem, don't you?

Good point!


>Getting back... in "Nothing is Revealed," I demonstrate that
>during the course of the past fifty-two years, nothing in the
>study of UFO's, abduction, Chupacabra, Kakapoopoo and etc., has
>been adequately explained.  Nothing at all.  Tim Matthiews,
>Matthews, Matt Hews, whatever, anyway, to quote him, there are
>two camps.  Those who believe and those who don't.  Well, Duh!?
>Now we here at the Canal Street UFOlogical Research Center in
>New York, want to know what other camps are expected in this
>mix?


Down here at the Washington DC Blue Plains Treatment Plant and
Science Center we agree that in general one may make the
specific assumption, without too much fear or liklihood of
contradiction, that, given the state of the world and UFOs
flying around today, and considering that with MonicaGate
temporarily on hold  (heh, heh) and Congress definitely not
considering whether or not to hold hearings on the reality of
Flying Thunderbirds or Triangles, that it would be a good time
to divide all believers into two (duh!) camps which are
basically " those who believe A" and "those who believe B", in
which the assignment of A and B, although strongly dependent
upon the orientation of the Moon relative to Betelgeuse and Mars
(except in that it may involve women in which case the
dependence is upon Betelgeuse and Venus), are nevertheless
opposites: that is B = "not A."

I'm certain that Dr. Gesundt understands the seriousness of this
matter.






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   Mar > Mar 17

                Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: BRuce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:07:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:54:56 -0500
Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network


>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:21:04 -0000

>>><T_Matthew>There are not thousands of people - just a bunch of
>>>well-paid story tellers and believers telling you this. These>

>>Well paid story tellers? The abductees? Better tell them.
>>They're still waiting for that first paycheck

>So these 'abductees' writing books and having books written
>about them are not being paid a penny?  Didn't Pamela
>Stonebrooke get paid $50,000 for her book.

>(If I'm mistaken forget an apology!)

You are correct at least in part.....   she won't get all that
money. BUT.... you referred to story tellerS .... plural....with
the (clear?) implication that all or at least many abductees are
laughing all the way to the bank. And then you pick one of the
few who will actually bank something.  Perhaps a more relevant
question is, what fraction of abductees whose stories are in the
literature have actually made $$$? I suspect the fraction is
small.






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   Mar > Mar 17

                   Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed

From: Rob Irving <RobIrving@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:08:03 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:57:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed


>From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:06:29 EST
>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed


Max,

>The main action that Dr Clark has done here by supplying my home
>telephone number to the police, which would lead to the police
>obtaining my home address through phone records.

Hmm... unlikely. If you haven't paid your Council Tax, the
council (obviously they would know your address) would more
likely have initiated proceedings. Your address should be
readily available in the electoral register etc - well within
arm's reach of the law. (Too logical methinks.)

Rob






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   Mar > Mar 17

                 The Real Gripple And The Real Jaime Gesundt

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:35:17 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:04:08 -0500
Subject: The Real Gripple And The Real Jaime Gesundt


I've gotten so much off line mail from folks asking, "Is Gripple
a _real_ New York drink or sumpin? And who is that Jaime Gesundt
guy, anyway?"

Well, let me explain, if EBK doesn't mind the bandwidth...

Gripple is real. It is sold by Dr. Gesundt, but only in his
imagination. It's a cross between Garbage and Ripple, the
latter of which is a drink. Ergo, 'Gripple'!

Jaime Gesundt is real too. In the mind of one of the nicest and
most humane people it has ever been my great pleasure and honor
to know. He used Jaime Gesundt, from Canal Street, to teach me
the lessons he had to teach. I never forgot those lessons.

Jaime Gesundt is the epitome of salesmen. And Canal Street was
the epitome of sales territories. Before World Trade went up,
Canal and Cortland Street in NYC was the mecca of trade. Little
one man shops selling everything from war surplus to sweaters
from the garment district.

And there was so much competition that each shop-owner, a
budding Jaime Gesundt, had to go out on the street in front of
his shop and "hawk" what was inside. Usually with ethnic accents
ranging from Yiddish to a Brogue that would melt rock. It was a
most wonderful place. And a most wonderful, innocent time. But
they paved paradise and put up a World Trade Center.

The man's name was Sydney Elfman. "As in little Elf Man." as he
used to say. And he had a heart the size of Canal Street. Sydney
took me, a 'Talienna Goyem from the Bronx, and taught me the
ethics of my trade. Those ethics guided me all my life since.
Sydney, if you're up there, this one's for you. And if I know
Syd, he's giving lessons, or trying to, to them little
almond-eyed bastards with big heads, on how to treat and deal
with, American abductees.

"Give 'em hell, Syd!"

That's what it's all about.

Gesundt





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   Mar > Mar 17

              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Lawrie Williams <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:32:57 +1000
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:06:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed


>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:50:25 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>>People at the cutting edge of physics don't know how to do
>>>"gravity reduction" or "anti-gravity", yet Fouche would have us

>>Minus 120 centigrade is achievable and well within the known
>>range of superconductivity. I have no trouble accepting that a
>>dense metal vapour at that temperature could do to gravity what
>>a faraday cage does to electromagnetism.

>I don't dispute the possibility of achieving low temperature
>superconductivity. The question is, what theoretical or
>experimental evidence is that that a "dense metal vapor" at such
>a low temperature would shield gravity.

>And what would it shield, a volume/region inside the metal
>vapor? By the way... I suspect that any metal vapor would
>condense and no longer be a vapor at -120C. The vapor pressure
>for any metal is very very low at -120 C.

An ion is a very different animal from a neutral atom.

The word used was "plasma". In this context it is likely that
_all_ the d orbital electrons have been stripped away so that
the indivividual atoms, which btw have a relatively small atomic
volume to start with, would repel one another intensely so that
in those conditions they would become very evenly dispersed and
subtle effects would show that are not normally observed in
"bucket physics".

Maybe gravity cannot penetrate atomic nucleii and so when this
method creates a uniform blanket of nucleii it results in a
battier that is only 11% permeable to the forces of gravity.

It would be well worth while getting some physicists to look
into this, notwithstanding that this is a highly specialized
field of study and they are likely to be as much in the dark as
we are.

Moving back to UFO's, one reliable datum we have is that during
some entity encounters people smell sulphur compounds, perhaps
SO2 or H2S. In one account it was "like burning coal freshly
cracked open".

Mercury occurs in native form and as the sulphide. In order to
obtain mercury it might be necessary sometimes for UFO crew to
collect and refine such stuff and the smell of "brimstone" could
be the result of this when they later go near humans.

Lawrie_______






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   Mar > Mar 17

                  NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:40:32 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:09:57 -0500
Subject: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


Source:

http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/CB990225.html

Stig

***

National UFO Reporting Center Case Brief

February 25, 1999

Elk Abduction in Washington State

NUFORC Home Page

**

On Monday, March 01, 1999, the National UFO Reporting Center
(NUFORC) received a call over its telephone Hotline
(206-722-3000) from an individual who identified himself as an
employee in the forestry industry in Washington State.  The
individual left a message, in which he reported that a team of
forestry workers allegedly had been witness to an incident on
Thursday, February 25, 1999, during which time an elk was lifted
off the ground and carried away by a very peculiar, disc-shaped
object. [*Click here to hear an excerpt from the hotline
recording.]

Peter B. Davenport, Director of NUFORC, contacted several of the
individuals whose names and telephone numbers had been provided
by the first contact. Based on those telephone conversations, he
elected to initiate a preliminary investigation of the incident.

Because NUFORC traditionally does not serve as an investigative
body, Mr. Davenport contacted Mr. Robert A. Fairfax, Director of
Investigations for the Washington State Chapter of the Mutual
UFO Network, which does conduct investigations of alleged UFO
sightings. Messrs. Davenport and Fairfax traveled to the
location of the alleged incident, and jointly have been
conducting an investigation of this elk abduction case since
Friday, March 05.

Their investigation to date has included a trip to the site of
the incident, an interview of three of the alleged fourteen
witnesses to the actual abduction, and several conversations
with individuals who work with the eyewitnesses. In addition,
the investigators inspected the carcass of an adult elk, a
pregnant cow, which was found dead beside a logging road on
March 01 by other forestry employees within a few miles of the
principal event.

The investigation and collection of facts surrounding the case
will continue. This preliminary summary of their findings to
date is submitted jointly by Messrs. Davenport and Fairfax.

[*Click here to hear the full audio report from the Art Bell
Coast to Coast radio program.]


Incident Summary:

On Thursday, February 25, 1999, at just a few minutes before
noon, three forestry workers, who were planting seedling trees
in the mountains of Washington State, witnessed a small,
disc-shaped object slowly drift over a nearby ridge to their
south, and descend into the valley to the north of their
position. The object descended silently with what seemed to the
witnesses a purposeful manner, exhibiting a slight "wobble" to
its flight.

The three workers at first thought the object was some kind of
parachute that was drifting and descending, but they quickly
realized that their initial impression was not correct. Hence,
they shouted to their eleven co-workers nearby, who were working
on the north-facing hillside, and all fourteen members of the
work crew watched the object for an estimated 3-5 minutes.

Within seconds of their first observation of the object, the
witnesses became aware that the object was travelling generally
in the direction of a herd of elk that they had been watching
all morning. They continued to watch as the object proceeded
toward the herd until it succeeded in getting quite close to the
animals. The animals apparently remained unaware of the object�s
presence until it was within a very short distance of the herd.

Suddenly, the animals bolted, most of the them running up the
slope to their east. However, one adult animal was seen by the
witnesses to separate itself from the herd and run or trot to
generally to the north, perhaps along a logging road. The
witnesses report that at this point, the object quickly moved
directly above the lone elk and seemed to lift it off the
ground, although no visible means of support of the animal was
evident to the observers.

[Photo of incident site and reported path of craft (graphic by
Robert Fairfax)]

The witnesses added that shortly after lifting the elk off the
ground, the object seemed to  begin to "wobble" to a more
pronounced degree than it had exhibited earlier. In addition, as
the object appeared to increase its altitude, the elk, which was
suspended upright below the disc, rotated slowly beneath it and
appeared to be getting closer to the ventral surface of the
disc. They also commented that the object seemed to increase in
size slightly after it had picked up the animal.

With the elk suspended below it, the object began to ascend
slowly up a clear-cut slope to the east. However, the witnesses
watched it apparently brush the tops of nearby trees to the
east, at which point it reversed its course and proceeded to the
west. It executed a 360-degree turn to the left and may have
gained some slight altitude in the process, the witnesses
thought.

After the object had completed its turn and was once again
proceeding in a generally easterly direction, it began ascending
very quickly at what seemed to the witnesses to be a rather
steep angle. It continued to ascend, and simply disappeared from
sight of the witnesses.

The witnesses stated that once the object had started to ascend
and had climbed to an altitude above their vantage point, they
no longer could see the animal suspended below the craft.  Their
presumption was that the animal had somehow been taken into the
craft, although the witnesses could discern no "door," or any
kind of aperture through which the animal might have been
conveyed into the craft.

The witnesses also stated that following the incident, the herd
of elk remained in the same general area, although remained more
closely huddled to one another than had been the case earlier in
the morning. The workers added that they, too, had remained
closer to one another until their departure from the area at the
end of the work day.


Investigation summary prepared by Peter B. Davenport, Director,
National UFO Reporting Center, and Robert A. Fairfax, Director
of Investigations, Mutual UFO Network, for the Washington State






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   Mar > Mar 17

                   On 'Flying Triangle over Cardigan Bay'

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:10:32 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:34:34 -0500
Subject: On 'Flying Triangle over Cardigan Bay'


Subject: Flying Triangle
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:38:24 -0600

Hi Everyone,

I received this in an email and thought you might find it
interesting if you are researching the 'Flying Triangle.'

REgards, Mike

---------------------------------------------------------------------

From: byrlip@enterprise.net (Adam Whaley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranet.ufo,alt.uro.reports,
alt.alien.research,alt.conspiracy
Subject: FLYING TRIANGLE -
UPDATEDate: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:51:26 GMT
Message-ID: <607vk9$iem$1@news.enterprise.net
DRAFT ADDENDUM - Flying Triangle over Cardigan Bay -
"NO FT, NOCOMMENT"!

Some More Thoughts on the Flying Triangle Phenomenon.

Since our report on the Cardigan Bay / West Wales Flying
Triangle sightings of 21st November 1996 has been published, we
have been able to access further reliable sources of
information which have helped formulate this intriguing
addendum. This addendum will concentrate on speculation
regarding the power system, design, purpose, and possible
builders of this craft. We have already suspected that the
craft is of terrestrial origin and features known technologies.
If we can now show how this craft could fly; what it could be
used for; and by whom it could be built, then one would not
necessarily need to invoke any extra-terrestrial origin
what-so-ever. Sorry to rain on some people's parade - the ET
bandwagon has become quite a palliative it seems!  With the
following repeated references to certain manufacturers, i.e.
Raytheon and E-Systems, we readily admit that we do not have
any proof that they are the actual manufacturers. Rather, they
are representative of the aerospace and defence contractors who
could build the craft. It just so happens that the names
Raytheon and E-Systems seem to crop up regularly in our
research reading on Project HAARP and other projects.  There
may well be, and probably are, many others involved in this
ultra-clandestine project but please be assured, we are getting
closer to the truth and have already got some very good leads.
Further additions to this addendum are already in the pipeline
and any hard factual info would be much appreciated to help us
on the way.

Propulsion System

We have chosen to start with the propulsion system as this is
one area where our witnesses were able to provide us with
reliably consistent reports of the propulsive effects.

Notoriously, the Flying Triangle is conveniently deduced by
many eye witnesses to be an 'Extraterrestrial-UFO' due mainly to
its lack of obvious, or conventional, propulsion. We hope to
show that this is far from the only option by piecing together
the available evidence and using Occam's Razor to eliminate the
misguided assumptions that have become an integral part of the
FT-UFO lore ever since the first reliable sightings in the
eighties. Unfortunately, some researchers still insist on
quoting dubious 'sightings' from the 1800's in an endeavour to
integrate the FT into the ET hypothesis. We feel this is as
irresponsible as it is desperate.  Witnesses report that the
craft is normally silent, unless one is standing directly
underneath when, to quote a witness, "it made aloud roaring
noise". Certainly residents of our area are well aquatinted with
low-flying military jets and helicopters and know what they
sound like - the FT was certainly nothing like them.

Other UFO witnesses have reported a whirring or humming sound,
likened on some occasions to an electricity sub-station. Besides
the sound (or lack of it), there was a report of static
electricity in the vicinity of the craft. Regarding the colours
observed, the red and blue flashes did not appear to be related
to the propulsion system, but the orange / yellow glow
surrounding it, prior to the very intense white flashes that
occurred when the craft rapidly accelerated do some how seem to
be associated with the method of propulsion. The orange / yellow
glow is almost certainly a plasma created by an strong
electro-magnetic field, presumably to reduce friction and thus
reducing the amount of energy needed to propel the craft along
its plane of motion when it goes into what we call 'burst
mode'.

The theory behind this process is called magneto-hydro-dynamics
(sometimes magneto-plasma-dynamics) - the main principle
associated with the recently publicised 'air-spike' technology
as will be fitted to hyper-sonic air and space vehicles of the
future. This subject was extensively researched on both sides of
the Iron Curtain during the 1950s and 1960s and continues to be
extensively researched to this day. (See the article by Eris
Andys in UFO Reality on the AGARD/NATO bibliography on this
subject published in 1962 by Pergamon Press. The Journal of
Propulsion and Power, Volume 8 (1992) has an index on the Web
and this also shows several relevant articles).
Magneto-hydro-dynamics relates to the processes involved when a
plasma is created by an intense electrical field which is then
held in place by a similarly strong electromagnetic field. The
electrical field creates electrons at strategically placed
electrodes, these are then being manipulated by the magnetic
field created by superconducting magnets. Prof. Leik Myrabo
relates that such a system impels the ionised air backwards
therefore creating thrust. Given that the Flying Triangle is
not always seen with a yellow/orange glow around it, it seems
likely that the plasma glow represents a quantitative increase
in the electrical charge and that this is increased
substantially when the inertial microwave -induced shockwave -
the air-spike - is engaged.

To aid the transfer of microwave or laser energy to the MPD
device, Myrabo has also suggested using a skin of silicon
carbide (carborundum). This is doubly interesting as this is a
dark crystalline substance and may account for the craft's dark
underside and possibly the top also. It is also a
semiconductor, which means that its electrical conductivity
increases with temperature. It is well known that various
energy waves, e.g. microwaves or lightwaves, can be converted
to electricity so we are postulating that these bursts of
energy are created by a microwave maser or a laser. The latter
would be more powerful, but visible. The result is an energy
beam which is pulsed out in front of the craft creating a
semi-vacuum into which the craft is 'sucked' at great speed.
This is not necessarily a continuous process, witnesses often
only saw one or two such bursts of energy, but on one occasion
seven were seen in rapid succession.

Incidentally, this technique was first proposed in the 1950s by
Terence Nonweiller but it mysteriously disappeared only to
re-emerge recently in the proposals of Leik Myrabo at the
Rennesslear Polytechnic Institute in Troy, New York State (See
MikeRoss's article "Rider on the Shock Wave" in New Scientist
17/2/1996 pp28, 30-31). These proposals would appear to be the
first public airing of the combined use of the MPD and microwave
shock wave, but we can be sure that the giant US military
laboratories are way ahead of what is publicly made known.

Power Source

As we have previously mentioned, there is no obvious visible
power source for this craft. However, as the craft appears to
primarily use electricity-related energy to propel itself, then
the power source would need to be electrical or to use some
form of conversion process. Leif Myrabo's proposals suggest
using beamed laser or microwave energy from a satellite or
satellites. This would be achieved by using stored solar power
or perhaps beamed up from the ground and then possibly
redirected by satellite. This energy would be converted on
board the FT to power the craft. Using beamed in energy would
remove the need for engines and fuel. This power source would
obviously increase the power- to-weight ratio tremendously.
Perhaps some form of accumulators may be used should the beamed
energy be intermittent or cut off for some reason?.
Incidentally, such power beams need not be in the visible light
part of the electromagnetic spectrum so could conveniently be
invisible to observers. However, this invisibility might also
present a tremendous hazard to anything that accidentally flew
in the vicinity such a beam. Perhaps some accidents have already
occurred which might have been conveniently attributed to 'pilot
error', 'freak weather' and 'causes unknown'! The use of
microwave energy beams to power aircraft has already been
sucessfully tested. A consortium of ARCO (Atlantic Richfield Oil
Company), Raytheon, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena and
some Japanese scientists flew such a craft 150 miles in Canada
in 1987, and on several other occasions more recently. It is not
known at this stage what the craft looked like, but it has been
suggested else where that it would benefit from having a large
surface area to receive the microwave energy beam. The Flying
Triangle certainly has such a large area especially when viewed
from directly below (or above), again increasing the likelihood
that it uses ground or satellite-beamed energy. It should also
be noted that Raytheon scientist William C.Brown has been
working on the beaming of energy to aircraft and helicopters
since 1965, and that, surprise surprise, - Raytheon, through
their E-Systems subsidiary, own the patents to several
suchbdevices! One could speculate why an Oil Company, such as
Atlantic Richfield (ARCO) would want to get involved with
beaming microwave energy to aircraft. One scenario suggests that
US Oil companies are looking forward to a time when either oil
becomes scarce or, for strategic / geopolitical reasons, an
effort is made to break the US reliance on Middle Eastern
suppliers (this may also explain Japanese interest who are
looking for ways to end their dependency on imported fuels).
Atlantic Richfield and Raytheon are heavily involved in the
Project HAARP development on the northern shore of Alaska, which
purportedly is designed to beam electrical energy into the
ionosphere to conduct all manner of experiments.

However, One source, Gerry Vassilatos, in his book "Secrets of
Cold War Technology" suggests that Project HAARP may be an
attempt to tap into the electrical energy of the Aurora
Borealis, in a similar way to that employed by Nikola Tesla much
earlier this century. The electricity generated could then be
used to power aircraft by beaming it to them, bypassing the need
for expensive, and increasingly environmentally unpopular,
aviation grade fuels.

The Problem of Lift

Although we have identified the probable source of power for
the craft and how the power is utilised to produce forward
motion, this does not necessarily give us the answer as to how
the craft stays up in the air. In short, what gives it lift? If
observers are correct, the Flying Triangle is capable of
hovering and moving at low speeds (50-100 knots). The craft
certainly does not have an aerodynamic wing section, - it has
been described as a triangular paving slab or processed cheese
slice in appearance, if not in scale! - and there do not appear
to be any of the rotors that give helicopters lift nor the
vectored thrust jet engines used by aircraft like the Harrier,
the sound would be deafening anyway. This has led many people
to conclude that the craft must use some form of 'anti-gravity'
device. We have searched in the literature in vain to find any
workable design for such a device. It is known that very strong
electro-magnetic fields can cause a levitating effect and this
has been known for along time (Dr Francis Nipher wrote an
article "Can Electricity Destroy Gravity" in the Electrical
Experimenter magazine of March 1918) and the concept has more
recently been famously demonstrated with the 'levitating frog'
that has hit the world's headlines. However, none of these
reports have shown the actual device used to create the
electro-magnetic field being levitated - only the object
suspended within the field. We are not aware of, and strongly
doubt the existence of, any experiment that features an object
that is capableof levitating itself. This leads us to conclude
that something as large, and as seemingly heavy, as the Flying
Triangle would require an almost unbelievably strong
electromagnetic field to suspend it and this would need to be
generated externally and certainly in the very near vicinity.
Even then, it is unlikely that the craft could rise from the
ground more than a few feet at most. Once again, Leik Myrabo has
come up with an answer to this riddle which is painful in its
simplicity and obviousness. Make the craft lighter-than-air,
i.e. an airship. Certainly the observed flight characteristics
at low speed of the FT seem to exactly mirror those of an
airship. What seems incredible is that it is also capable of
supersonic flight, if only in very short bursts. Myrabo
envisages acraft with a skin made of layers of silicon carbide
which can withstand temperatures of up to 2000K and inflated
with helium to provide buoyancy at low altitudes and act as a
coolant (the microwavepower converter would probably need a lot
of cooling). Such a skin would need to be effectively
transparent to the microwave energy beams on the top of the
craft and there may be a dome effect to help focus the beam to
the converter. Unfortunately, we are not aware of any witness
report that lists a sighting of the upper side of the FT so this
dome or lens must remain conjecture.

Controlling The Craft

Whereas we now have a means for getting the craft through the
air and keeping it off the deck, there is also the problem of
steering the craft, both in terms of altitude and direction. The
craft was observed undertaking a circular route at level flight
so it must be steerable. No alteration in height was observed on
this occasion, but other observers have claimed that it can
descend from a great height and similarly ascend with extreme
rapidity. Regarding horizontal direction, it is possible that
by manipulating the plasma field and the flow of the electrons
in it, the craft can be made to change direction. In fact in
the absence of anything resembling rudders, ailerons, flaps etc
or any other propulsion system, this is our only explanation
for how manoeuvrability can be achieved. To make small altitude
changes at low speed, it would seem necessary to effect a
change in the relative buoyancy of the craft.  Alteration of
the air/helium mix would allow it to rise and fall, and with a
compartmentalised internal structure, it would be possible to
cause any point of the triangle to rise or fall. This would
then allow the microwave shock wave to be generated forwards in
a horizontal plane relative to the direction of the craft. This
effect has been observed and is often likened to "horizontal
sheet lightning". This system could also be employed for rapid
ascent and descent by simply pointing the craft upwards or
downwards.  This vertical orientation has actually been observed
and described as "flying flat face forward" (like a hotair
balloon caught in an air stream), leading to the conclusion
"that no earthly craft could perform such a manoeuvre.  Oh yeah!
It is worthy of consideration whether hydrogen could be used
instead of helium.  Helium is a natural gas found within the
Earth.  It is expensive and is being recovered in limited
amounts.  The huge amounts required to provide lift to the FT
would be prohibitive. Hydrogen, on the other hand is in ready
supply and is easily manufactured.   It is quite possible that
the FT may even have its own on-board manufacturing unit.  Of
course, the main problem with Hydrogen is its combustibility
when mixed with air.  When the critical mix is attained - bang!
No FT - no comment!  This explosion may well be responsible for
the 'mystery explosion' near the Isle of Lewis earlier this
year. Eye witnesses saw wreckage falling from the sky after
seeing a huge fireball.  The explosion was heard by hundreds
and the details recorded seismically.  No wreckage was
recovered and the incident officially recorded as unexplained.
There just happened to be a NATO air-sea exercise near to the
area - what a surprise! We have wondered how the craft stops,
given that the momentum provided by the shock wave would carry
the craft forwards for a great distance. It has been observed
that the craft often enters the scene in a flash of light as
well as leaving in a similar fashion.  We surmise that, not only
can the craft generate a shock wave in front of it, but also to
the rear or any of the sides, working in tandem to counteract
the forward motion.  The breaking effect must be tremendous and
the Gforces beyond human capacity to withstand.  There is the
distinct possibility that all three sides act together giving
3-way reactive manoeuvrability.

Who Controls the Craft?

The G forces, together with the user-unfriendly electromagnetic
atmosphere in which the craft operates, suggests to us that
this would not be a suitable environment for human pilots, crew
or passengers and we are reminded of the ill-fated Mag-Lev
train of the 1970's. However, this unfriendly environment would
not be of great importance these days as the science of Virtual
Reality remote control for aircraft has been extensively
developed. Indeed, the most recent proposals for military
fighters and bombers envisage pilotless craft, controlled
either from ground stations or 'motherships', directly or via
satellite.  As is well known, the military have developed
Virtual Reality for flight simulators and the entire globe
continues to be mapped out with increasingly higher resolution.
This means that even low-flying would now appear to be
perfectly feasible - although even human pilots have been known
to make catastrophic mistakes in the Welsh hills.  Readers may
have spotted an apparent contradiction in how the craft could
be controlled remotely if the electromagnetic field surrounding
it disrupts all electronic and magnetic communications systems.
This problem can neatly be addressed by using the microwave
maser/laser to act as a carrier wave for a modulated digital
pulse. The pulse would simply be interrogated, error corrected
and converted into digital control signals. An analogy could be
that the same electricity used to send Morse Code signals could
also be used to charge a battery at the same time -
communications and power down a single power line. Although the
Flying Triangle appears to exhibit extremely fast bursts of
speed, it does not appear to be able to sustain them thus
tracking the craft, especially by satellite, would not be
difficult.  Even communicating with it would be possible,
despite its electromagnetic envelope, if one uses gamma rays or
the afore mentioned modulated carrier wave. A company such as
E-Systems would be ideal for the development of these techniques
as they are the owners of the Global Positioning System of
satellites. Their parent company Raytheon are experts in the
field of satellites and ground launch stations. Raytheon have
also recently been showing off their Tactical Unmanned Aerial
Vehicle (the Shadow 200) to the US military which is flown from
the ground and which can transmit a variety of images in real
time.  Interestingly, the GPS is said to be only accurate to
within about 30 meters but this resolution would obviously be
unsuited to the precise requirements of the VR control of the
Flying Triangle.  However, on more than one occasion, the GPS
resolution has suddenly and mysteriously increased to within a
few inches and what a coincidence that one of these occasions
just happened to coincide with the search for a missing fighter
plane's black box!

The Design

Well, we hope we have shown that the craft is technologically
feasible in terms of power and control, but could it be made and
why do so in a triangular shape?  Using microwave energy beams
would require a large surface area to beam onto because
presumably if one chose too small an area it would suffer from
overheating, whereas a large area would deliver a diffused
power density to any specific part of the surface. The craft
would need to be fairly bulky to allow sufficient density and
mass for the magneto-plasma-dynamic 'drive' to operate.  Also,
and perhaps more importantly, being an airship, it would require
a sufficiently large volume to give the required buoyancy.
Finally it needs to be strong enough to withstand the colossal
rate of acceleration and a triangular shape just happens to be
the strongest structure geometrically.  It has been witnessed
that the FT sometimes splits off into several pieces again
leading to an automatic ET hypothesis. Hasn't it occurred to
anyone that an equilateral triangle is the perfect and most
stable nesting solid although why the manufacturers would want
them to nest together is anyone's guess?  We suspect that the
craft has solid sides, where the electrodes and superconducting
magnets are expected to reside. They would also give it
solidity. The top and/or bottom might comprise the films of
silicon carbide and the whole assembly built around a triangular
space-frame.  This space-frame could be a compartmentalised
structure built of many interconnected gas-tight vessels. These
in turn may be made of a super lightweight polymer and perhaps
it is again nocoincidence that Raytheon are known to manufacture
an executive jet made with precisely such a polymer!  This
arrangement would therefore neatly combine both the strength,
rigidity and the inflatability that the design appears to point
towards. Admittedly, we can only guess at the internal structure
but a compartmentalised arrangement would certainly allow for
the differential flow of helium/hydrogen.  It would certainly
account for the requirement of the craft to raise or lower its
'nose' in a similar fashion to a submarine.

What is it For?

Having come this far we have to conclude that the Flying
Triangle is undoubtedly a terrestrial craft and there is nothing
we have suggested so far that is beyond the bounds of
terrestrial technology.  Admittedly some of this technology is
ultra high-tech state-of-the-art but on the other hand, some of
it is almost prehistoric!  Their still remains the question of
what possible use the FT might have.   A quick process of
elimination will remove the possibility that this is a
passenger aircraft, due to its hostile environment.  The lack
of sustained speed and poor manoeuvrability can rule out an
interceptor role or tactical strike role; its size would also
rule this out.  A transport role would appear to be unlikely
with all the stresses of slow, fast and back to slow mode of
travel as well as the extreme unlikelihood of it being able to
sustain a heavy payload.  There does not appear to be any need
for a bomber of this type as it would, of course, be extremely
vulnerable to hostile fire, and with the known capability of
intercontinental missiles, nuclear submarines and so forth
there doesn't seem to be any compelling reason for adopting
this technology in a bombing role.  This would leave us with
four feasible roles.  Leik Myrabo's designs are for launch
vehicles for satellites, but there is scant evidence that the
FT would be capable of the Mach 25 escape velocity required and
what is a satellite launch vehicle be doing flying around for
hours at a time at 200 feet above the ground!  OK, so it may
use the same technology but it still doesn't seem very likely
to us.  Also Myrabo only proposed craft of 30 feet in diameter
and this is a monster compared to that. It should be noted that
NASA has helped fund Myrabo's work so it is just possible that
the Flying Triangle may have a variant form which can be used
for this purpose even so, the 200foot version that is
frequently sighted would appear to be far too large for the
job. Having said that, we would also note that Raytheon are at
work on a variety of satellite launch vehicles - another
coincidence?

This leaves three more contenders for the role of this craft.

Remembering the Second World War (and assuming this isn't a
super fast barrage balloon!), one of the main uses for airships
was as naval convoy escorts.

Now the FT has the ability to fly around unattended for long
periods of time and then suddenly zoom in to a location.  If
the craft was fitted with a variety of electronic or sonic
weapons itcould prove to be a sub-hunter of some utility, or
even be used in dreaded 'War on Drugs' to keep track of
smuggling vessels - as if modern radar and satellites couldn't
already do this!  Well it is possible but highly unlikely.
However as the Office of Naval Intelligence is one of the
sponsors of Myrabo's work, then it is likely that some
consideration of such a role may at least have been given.

Another role we can think of is for a strategic spy plane, a
successor to the U-2s and Blackbird.  It has been known for some
time that the US military and intelligence services have
desired something that combines the manoeuvrability of aircraft
with the staying power of a satellite.  Assuming that the FT has
the capability of flying very high and out of the reach of
SAMs, then it could well perform a valuable spying role, being
able to dive below the cloud cover to get a real close up look
at a target and then zoom away in a flash.  In this regard we
note that the Israeli ROTOSTAR system of communications utilizes
high-flying airships, as these are much cheaper than
satellites.

Finally, a possible use would be in a non-lethal weapons
capacity as a search and destroy craft.  It could be a
sophisticated diverter/ converter system for the microwave or
laser beam that also powers it. Any electronic systems struck
by such a beam pulsed at a critical frequency would be rendered
useless.  In these days of hightech weaponry, that means
virtually all weapons from tanks to ICBM's. It could also have a
subsidiary role in being an Electronic Counter Measures craft
able to take out enemy electricity supplies and radio stations
and so forth.  The ability to wield electromagnetic weapons
would also be invaluable from a purely defensive standpoint.
In the absence of any obvious armaments, this ability to disarm
incoming missiles could just well be the primary role.  In this
regard we would also point out that one of the sponsors of
Myrabo's work has been the Strategic Defence Initiative.  The
fact that the craft is apparently uncrewed would be a distinct
advantage as this would avoid any embarrassing scenes if the
pilot was shot down and captured (Gary Powers) and, provided
there were no tell-tale markings, the country that used this
craft would have a degree of built-in 'plausible deniability'
(the first requirement of the CIA and other intelligence
agencies). The possibility of the FT having Hydrogen buoyancy
would allow the craft to be used in a Kamikaze fashion like a
massive fuel-air bomb.  It could well be ultimately regarded as
a disposable structure. As an added advantage, there would be
little, if any, wreckage left for an enemy to back-engineer!

If this is a CIA/NRO spy plane then it would certainly explain
the official media blackout and indeed it could be the very
reason why there appears to have been so much enthusiasm for
thinking that this 'UFO' is an alien spaceship!  What better
cover could such a vulnerable piece of equipment have than to be
thought of as belonging to an alien race that is so far advanced
than ourselves and so equipped with such awesome weaponry (as
displayed in 'Independence Day') that it would be suicidal to
shoot it down.  Also, if this is a CIA/NRO spy plane it would
explain why the government and the military have been correct in
saying that it was not an "unknown" aircraft - that is, unknown
to them.  But they ain't saying what it is and who does know
about it.  It would also explain why it was evaluated as not
being a threat to the UK - true again.  The only recorded
attack by this craft was apparently in Russia where one
apparently attacked a Radar station.  We say apparently because
this was later officially denied. Just what you'd expect a US
spy/ECM plane would be capable of doing and just the expected
response also!.  Furthermore, it would just happen to be a
convenient coincidence that the very people who could design,
build and fly one of these craft, Raytheon, have as their
subsidiary E-Systems, a company that is staffed almost entirely
by ex-military / intelligence people, whose work is almost
exclusively for those agencies and whose core business,
according to their 1994 Annual Report, is reconnaissance and
surveillance.  As we say, pure coincidence.  Furthermore the
Flying Triangle has been observed near to the Raytheon factory
at Hawarden (Broughton) in North East Wales, which may explain
why there have been so many sightings along the North Wales
coast, and indeed it was in the direction of Hawarden that 'our'
Flying Triangle was last seen heading on November 21st 1996.
Also Raytheon have research facilities in Denmark which may
explain why the craft appears so frequently along the North
Eastern coast of England. Presumably, the craft waves to people
on Atlantic Richfield's Trent and Tyne Oil field platforms.
(Flying Triangle sightings have taken place from North Sea Oil
platforms). Raytheon are also experts at building such
platforms, and are experimenting with off-shore launch platforms
and, quite possibly, microwave energy beaming stations also.

Well well!  There would be no reason for too many Government
and Military people to be in the know about the FT, just enough
to have the correct procedures followed that could perpetuate a
cover-up.  If the cover eventually gets blown and can't be
denied then a convenient cover story would be set in motion -
admit that it is one of ours but that it is only flown for
research purposes (some guff about the environment will
probably do) and that there is nothing secret or untoward about
it so what's the fuss about!  So, the famous Flying Triangle.
As far we can see there are very good reasons to suppose that
this beast is of terrestrial origin, built and designed in the
USA for their military / intelligence agencies by their friends
in the aerospace industries.  We'd be very surprised if
Raytheon and E-Systems the CIA / NSA / NRO / NASA aren't heavily
involved in this one, unless you know otherwise and want to tell
us?

Bibliography

Nick Begich and Jeanne Manning "Angels Don't Play This HAARP:
Advances in Tesla Technology". Earthpulse Press, AL, 1996.

Much more readable than Vassilatos with much useful information
about ARCO and Raytheon, amongst other subjects

.Mike Ross "Rider on the Shockwave" New Scientist 17/2/1996
pp28, 30 -31.
Excellent resume of Myrabo's work.

Gerry Vassilatos "Secrets of Cold War Technology: Project HAARP
andBeyond". Borderland Sciences Research Foundation, CA. 1996.

Virtually unreadable account of the war between Tesla and Marconi
and the use of their radio technologies by the military.  Useful
discussion of HAARP.  Needs a second edition where all the wrong
words are corrected (it's been spell-checked but not sense-checked).

Virtually every issue of the following magazines has had some
references to the Flying Triangle and related phenomena, some more
useful than others:

Alien Encounters, Fortean Times, Sightings, Nexus, UFO Magazine, UFO
Reality.

Web-sites for Raytheon, ARCO, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and
many other web resources - use your search engines selectively.

A few interesting key words for your search engines:

Myrabo, SABER, Tesla, plasma weapons, particle beam weapons,
rail gun, MHD/MPD, microwave energy beams, airborne laser/ABL
magnetoplasmadynamics, SDI, HAARP.

Richard Alexander
Adam Whaley

FOOTNOTE

As this addendum was being drafted, we came across a large body
of circumstantial supporting evidence to strongly suggest
that the FT's are connected with a mega-Multi-National Corp/Govt
secret project to secure a viable renewable energy source for the
future - SPS or Satellite Solar Power.  This project has been
previously been publicly deemed "unviable at present" but we now
suspect otherwise!  If any researchers would like to pool knowledge
or information to get to the bottom of this, please get in touch.

!

 Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
 ICQ#:7508455
 BBS: (502) 683-3026
 Fax: (502) 686-7394
 Home: (502) 683-6811
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   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 17

                  Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:14:22 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:37:08 -0500
Subject: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:21:04 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:21:38 -0500
Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:50:09 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>><T_Matthew>Yes, I've got all the documents (well nearly all) and spent
>>a great deal of time looking into them and asking people all the
>>difficult questions. To me the thing starts off with a lie; "On 24th
>>June 1947....Kenneth Arnold saw 9 flying discs". No he didn't. There

Bruce Maccabee:
>>Huh?  He didn't see 9 flying discs?  Then what did Arnold report?

Tim Matthews:
>Good question Bruce and I think we've debated this before. One
>of his drawings was of a Horten wing

As is detailed below, _all_ of Arnold's initial descriptions and
his initial drawing were of disc-shaped objects.  Arnold later
added the description and drawing that applied to only one of
the objects, what Tim Matthews refers to as a "Horten wing."
But Arnold said 8 of the 9 objects were clearly disc-like or
saucer-like in shape.

>but as you have agreed there are tremendous problems with the
>sighting........

Bruce Maccabee has never said there were anything like there
were "tremendous problems" with the sighting.  He has said
Arnold probably got his estimate of object altitude wrong and
may have overestimated the width to thickness ratio. But that's
about it.  These are actually minor points that have no bearing
on more important aspects of Arnold's sighting, such as his
calculations of supersonic speed.

>It was the media who decided to give birth to the terms 'flying
>saucers' - and not really Kenneth Arnold who was attempting to
>describe the motion of the objects he saw..........

Pure unadulterated rubbish, and boy is it time to get rid of
that hoary old myth.  In fairness to Tim Matthews, the same
erroneous statement appears in many "saucer" books and from
people who should know better.

Kenneth Arnold very definitely used terms like "saucer" and
"disc" to describe the _shape_, not the motion of what he saw.
Here are some of the contemporaneous quotes from Arnold:

Associated Press, e.g., Tacoma News Tribune and Portland Oregon
Journal, June 26, 1947: "Arnold described the objects as 'flat
like a pie-pan.'"

Portland Oregon Journal, June 27:  "They were half-moon shaped,
oval in front and convex in the rear.   ...There were no bulges
or cowlings; they looked like a big flat disk."

Norman Oklahoma Transcript, June 26:  "They were shaped like
saucers and were so thin I could barely see them..."

Chicago Tribune, June 25:  "They were silvery and shiny and
seemed to be shaped like a pie plate."

Radio interview, June 25:  "They looked something like a pie
plate that was cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in
the rear."

Pendleton East Oregonian (article by Bill Bequette, first
newsman to interview Arnold), June 26:   "[Arnold] described the
objects as 'flat like a pie-pan and somewhat bat-shaped.'"

Portland Oregonian, July 11, 1947:  "'I actually saw a type of
aircraft slightly longer than it was wide, with a thickness
about one twentieth as great as its width.'   '...I reckoned the
saucers were 23 miles away,'  he said..."

On July 12, less than three weeks after the sighting, Arnold was
interviewed by A.F. intelligence and filed a written report.
Several times within the report he referred to the objects as
"saucer-like."  At the end of the report he drew a picture of
what the objects appeared to look like at their closest approach
with Mt. Rainier or other snow-capped peaks as a backdrop.  He
wrote, "They seemed longer than wide, their thickness was about
1/20th their width."

The picture Arnold drew of the objects looked something like
(and please excuse the difficulty of trying to draw rounded
shapes using only text -- use nonproportional font like Courier
to view properly):

                ____
             (        *
             )          \
            (            )         -==========-
             )          /
             (  ____  *

               Profile                 Edge-on


Compare to some of Arnold's verbal descriptions: "half-moon
shaped, oval in front and convex in the rear" like "a big flat
disk."  Or,  "They looked something like a pie plate that was
cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in the rear.  Or,
"flat like a pie-pan and somewhat bat-shaped."

Please tell us where the "Horten flying wing" is in all this?
Starting two months later, during the weird Maury Island
incident, Arnold added a description like this to only one of
the objects, the one he said was in the lead.  But all other
objects he described right from the very beginning as thin,
flat, saucer-like, disk-like, half-moon-shaped,
pie-plate-shaped, etc. If there was any question, his drawing a
little less than three weeks later makes it abundantly clear he
was _not_ describing a Horten flying wing shape in his early
statements.

As to _motion_, not shape, were the following contemporaneous
descriptions:

Pendleton East Oregonian and Portland Oregon Journal, June 26:
"He also described the objects as 'saucer-like' and their motion
'like fish flipping in the sun.'"

[Again notice the clear distinction between _shape_ and
_motion_.]

Portland Oregon Journal, June 27:  "Arnold said that the objects
waved 'like the tail of a Chinese kite.'"

Radio interview, June 25:  "I noticed to the left of me a chain
which looked to me like the tail of a Chinese kite, kind of
weaving..."  " they seemed to flip and flash in the sun, just
like a mirror..." "They didn't fly in a conventional formation
that's taught in our army, they seemed to kind of weave in and
out right above the mountaintops, and I would say that they even
went down into the canyons in several instances, oh, probably a
hundred feet..."

Tacoma News Tribune, June 27:  "[Arnold] clung to his story of
the shiny flat objects, each as big as a DC-4 passenger plane,
racing over Washington's Cascade mountains with a peculiar
weaving motion, 'like the tail of a kite.'"

Chicago Tribune, June 26:  "'I am sure they were separate
units,' he said, 'because they weaved in flight like the tail of
a kite.'"

Associated Press, e.g. Los Angeles Times,  Salem Oregon
Statesman, June 26: "They flew with a peculiar dipping motion,
'like a fish flipping in the sun,' he said.  ...  He said they
appeared to fly almost as if fastened together -- if one dipped,
the others did, too."

Pendleton East Oregonian, June 25:  "He said that in flight they
appeared to weave in and out in formation."

Pendleton East Oregonian, June 26:  "Mostly, he said, he was
surprised at the way they twisted just above the higher peaks,
almost appearing to be threading their way along the mountain
ridge line.  'No orthodox plane would be flying like that,' he
commented.  'Ten thousand feet is very low for anything going at
that speed.'"

Written report, July 12:  "They flew like many times I have
observed geese to fly in a rather diagonal chain-like line as if
they were linked together. They seemed to hold a definite
direction but rather swerved in and out of the high mountain
peaks."  He also spoke of how they would "flip and flash in the
sun."

Years later in his book, Arnold gave these descriptions:  " As I
described them at the time their flight was like speed boats on
rough water or similar to the tail of a Chinese kite that I once
saw blowing in the wind. Or maybe it would be best to describe
their flight characteristics as very similar to a formation of
geese, in a rather diagonal chain-like line, as if they were
linked together. As I put it to newsmen in Pendleton, Oregon,
they flew like a saucer would if you skipped it across the
water. They fluttered and sailed, tipping their wings
alternately and emitting those very bright blue-white flashes
from their surfaces."

It seems to be this latter description, not the ones that
actually appeared in the newspapers or in Arnold's written
report to air intelligence, that seems to be the source of the
confusion.  Here Arnold, years later, claims he told the
Pentleton newsmen (i.e., Bill Bequette of the East Oregonian)
that "they flew like a saucer would if you skipped it across the
water."

One has to wonder if Arnold ever said it in exactly that way.
People talk of skipping flat rocks off of water, but skipping
saucers off of water is not exactly a common pastime.  It would
be an extremely peculiar metaphor for Arnold to have used while
groping to describe the unusual motion in a way that would make
sense to others.  Rather it seems a case of Arnold later mixing
metaphors, using his description of shape, where he clearly used
"saucer- like," with the skipping motion off water of what one
would associate with a similarly shaped flat rock.

In any event, the skipping motion description never seems to
have made it into1947 newspaper reports, nor into Arnold's own
written description to AF intelligence.  As noted above, Bill
Bequette on June 26 reported the shape and motion thusly:  "He
also described the objects as 'saucer-like' and their motion
'like fish flipping in the sun."  Elsewhere in the article was
another description of shape:  "[Arnold] described the objects
as 'flat like a pie-pan and somewhat bat-shaped.'"

And in a surviving radio interview of the same day, Arnold
described the shape as: "They looked something like a pie plate
that was cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in the
rear."  As to motion, Arnold said they flew in a chain, weaving
like a Chinese kite, and they flipped and flashed in the sun.
This wasn't Arnold filtered through some newspaper reporter, but
Arnold speaking for himself.

Arnold clearly distinguished between shape and motion.  The
shape was "saucer- like," a term Arnold himself used several
times in his letter to air intelligence and elsewhere.  This was
not an invention of the newspapers. Arnold also used words like
discs or pie-pans or half-moon-shaped.  His drawing to air
intelligence was of a thin, flat, circular object somewhat
chopped and slightly pointed to the rear, exactly the same as
some of his verbal descriptions.  Arnold held back the
description of the singular crescent-shaped, or flying
wing-shaped object until later.

The motion, as reported in 1947, was like the objects were tied
together.  The objects appeared to move together, like the tail
of a kite.  They dipped together and weaved around mountain
peaks in a long chain.  They flipped and flashed in the sun like
fish might in water.  But nothing, anywhere, of Arnold saying
they skipped like saucers or anything else on water.

David Rudiak






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   Mar > Mar 17

                     Gary Alevy & Apocalypse Pretty Soon

From: Alex Heard <aheard@wired.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:13:48 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:47:43 -0500
Subject: Gary Alevy & Apocalypse Pretty Soon

To: All

Compuserve has invited me to host a forum about Apocalypse
Pretty Soon* on its UFO Forum. Any of you who are members,
please stop by during the next two weeks and say hello. We'll be
discussing millennium-related UFO topics such as Steven Greer,
Joe Firmage, Richard Hoagland, and Gary Alevy (because he MAY be
the Antichrist ... otherwise why would he say such mean things
about my book, which is deserving only of love and devotion?)
Come on over!

*Called "disappointing" by the New York Times (waaaaah) but
subsequently hailed as "hilarious ... worthy of an A"
(Entertainment Weekly), "hilarious" (Washington Post), and a
must-read book about the millennium (USA Today).






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   Mar > Mar 17

                Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:26:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:39:42 -0500
Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network



>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:21:04 -0000

>>Well paid story tellers? The abductees? Better tell them.
>>They're still waiting for that first paycheck

>So these 'abductees' writing books and having books written
>about them are not being paid a penny?  Didn't Pamela
>Stonebrooke get paid $50,000 for her book.

Sigh. Not again.

Most abductees -- the vast majority -- never write one word
about their experiences.

And books, as perhaps Tim himself has discovered, don't pay all
that well. Many advances, even from major publishers, are less,
maybe far less, than this alleged $50,000. Most books by
abductees are published by small presses, which pay less than
the major publishers do. And of course the abductees with books
written about them normally don't get a cent (Linda Cortile is
the only exception I know of).

Besides, even if Pamela really got that sum, it's not as much
money as it seems. Perhaps the advance was divided into three
pieces -- one-third given her before she writes, one-third after
she delivers the manuscript, and the remaining third when the
book is published. That would give her $16667 during the period
when she wrote her book. How long does it take to write a book,
Tim? Would $16667 buy that much time, at the normal pay-rates an
educated person expects? Would even the full $50,000 (if Pamela
got that much up front) pay for the time?

Many, if not most, people who write books end up subsidizing the
books themselves to some degree. Either they have to write in
what normally would be their spare time, or they live on less
money, while they're writing, than they'd make if they pursued
some other line of work. And many, if not most, books never earn
their authors one cent past the advance.

As for Tim's idea  that there aren't thousands of abductees, but
instead "just a bunch of well-paid story tellers and believers
telling you this"=85I do hope the volume he's been flacking here
is better researched than this ridiculous claim.

Greg Sandow






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   Mar > Mar 18

                   Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed

From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:14:21 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:38:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed


>From: Rob Irving <RobIrving@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:08:03 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed


>>From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:06:29 EST
>>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed


>Max,

>>The main action that Dr Clark has done here by supplying my home
>>telephone number to the police, which would lead to the police
>>obtaining my home address through phone records.

>Hmm... unlikely. If you haven't paid your Council Tax, the
>council (obviously they would know your address) would more
>likely have initiated proceedings. Your address should be
>readily available in the electoral register etc - well within
>arm's reach of the law.
>(Too logical methinks.)

Not Logical enough me thinks?

Rob, I have seen the document that was faxed to the police by
David Clark.

Never mind the fact that I am now living in a different county
to where the tax is owed...

Not Logical enough me thinks?

I have only been at the address for 10 weeks, it takes nearly 2
years to appear on the register..

Not Logical enough me thinks?

Rob, I have seen the document that was faxed to the police by
David Clark.

Too much time in crop circles if you ask me...

Max Burns





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   Mar > Mar 18

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:04:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:41:31 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:40:32 +0100 (MET)
>Subject: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State
>To: updates@globalserve.net

Assuming this is not a hoax the following statement is
interesting...

>The witnesses added that shortly after lifting the elk off the
>ground, the object seemed to  begin to "wobble" to a more
>pronounced degree than it had exhibited earlier. In addition, as
>the object appeared to increase its altitude, the elk, which was
>suspended upright below the disc, rotated slowly beneath it and
>appeared to be getting closer to the ventral surface of the
>disc. They also commented that the object seemed to increase in
>size slightly after it had picked up the animal.

What's interesting is the last sentence. Now, it's not that I
think that the object became larger, but that it seems natural
that the witness estimate of the object size would change as a
result of its sudden proximity to an object of known size (the
elk).

If anything, it seems to me this adds some plausibility to the
case, since the witnesses, or so it seems to me, are
interpreting the effect incorrectly, but are indeed reporting a
predictable, real perceptual effect.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo.htm
------





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   Mar > Mar 18

                       Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:08:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:45:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets


>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:08:15 +0000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets
>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:54:09 -0400

>Hi Stan, we converse again.

>>I would point out that in about 1520 Magellan's ship took about
>>2 years to go around the Earth. In the 19th century the goal was
>>around the world in 80 days. Not too many years ago it took
>>several days to circumnavigate the globe in an airplane. Now the
>>shuttle does it in 90 minutes.

<snip>

I certainly won't say some smart guys of the future won't figure
out how to beat the speed of light limit. My point is one need
not go faster than c to make star trips in reasonable times for
the pilots. ZR is a billion years older than the sun (not a
million) so I certainly expect their civilization to be much
more advanced and to know things we can't even dream about.

Obviously there could be outposts all over the neighborhood like
the caolaing stations of a century ago so that many  trips need
only be from the local base (backside of the moon??)

Stan Friedman






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   Mar > Mar 18

                   Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:12:19 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:47:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed



>From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:06:29 EST
>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed

>Something that I find very alarming is the fact that as press
>officer. for Bufora Dr David Clark, has not Once attempted to
>stifle the very critical remark's and comments made of Bufora,
>by his collaboratorand friend from way back in university days
>Andy Roberts.

>If he feels at all comprimised by his choices available, I offer
>that Dr David Clark offer his resignation as press officer for
>Bufora.

>In light of his inability to uphold the right of free speech, in
>view of his personal choices that he has displayed which is a
>clear conflict of interests.

>In the fundemental policy of the
>BUFORA ORGANISATION..
>Max Burns
>AlienHype@aol.com


>From roy.hale@virgin.net

I  feel in light of the actions that have been raised,concerning
Max Burns investigation into the "Sheffield Incident", that it
would be the right thing to do for Mr Clarke to resign his
position forthwith as the BUFORA Press Officer.

This is an outrageous situation for such an organisation. Why
has BUFORA allowed this kind of thing to carry on without any
action being taken from the board of BUFORA?

Dr Clarke (Amongst others) has quite obviously shown a personal
interest in damning anything that Max has had to say concerning
the above case (I wonder who exactly is giving Malcolm Robinson
grief at this moment on allowing Max to present his case!), I
just wonder if the head people at BUFORA are in fact happy with
the conduct of their Press Officer. If you feel strongly on this
point I suggest you contact BUFORA with your views.

Free speech for UK ufologists? We can but dream..................

Roy..







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   Mar > Mar 18

                 Re: On 'Flying Triangle over Cardigan Bay'

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:42:02 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:51:54 -0500
Subject: Re: On 'Flying Triangle over Cardigan Bay'


>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:10:32 -0600
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
>Subject: Flying Triangle

>Subject: Flying Triangle
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:38:24 -0600

>Hi Everyone,

>I received this in an email and thought you might find it
>interesting if you are researching the 'Flying Triangle.'

>REgards, Mike


Dear Mike,

Thanks a million for this post. Finally a piece of solid
research on the enigma of the flying triangle. Well written and
very informative. However, if this line of research resembles
the facts, I'm still wrestling with the question what these
triangles were doing over America's allies such as Belgium and
Brazil. If indeed those were of the same type.



            __________________________________________
           /    Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes    \
                      Henny van der Pluijm
                      hvdp@worldonline.nl

                       Technology Pages
                http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
             \______________________________________/





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   Mar > Mar 18

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:51:14 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:59:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:14:22 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:50:09 -0500
>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>><T_Matthew>Yes, I've got all the documents (well nearly all) and spent
>>>a great deal of time looking into them and asking people all the
>>>difficult questions. To me the thing starts off with a lie; "On 24th
>>>June 1947....Kenneth Arnold saw 9 flying discs". No he didn't. There

>Bruce Maccabee:
>>>Huh?  He didn't see 9 flying discs?  Then what did Arnold report?

>Tim Matthews:
>>Good question Bruce and I think we've debated this before. One
>>of his drawings was of a Horten wing

>As is detailed below, _all_ of Arnold's initial descriptions and
>his initial drawing were of disc-shaped objects.  Arnold later
>added the description and drawing that applied to only one of
>the objects, what Tim Matthews refers to as a "Horten wing."
>But Arnold said 8 of the 9 objects were clearly disc-like or
>saucer-like in shape.

>>but as you have agreed there are tremendous problems with the
>>sighting........

>Bruce Maccabee has never said there were anything like there
>were "tremendous problems" with the sighting.  He has said
>Arnold probably got his estimate of object altitude wrong and
>may have overestimated the width to thickness ratio. But that's
>about it.  These are actually minor points that have no bearing
>on more important aspects of Arnold's sighting, such as his
>calculations of supersonic speed.

That's certainly wrong because in an extended email exchange
with Bill Rose he did say that there were problems.

>>It was the media who decided to give birth to the terms 'flying
>>saucers' - and not really Kenneth Arnold who was attempting to
>>describe the motion of the objects he saw..........

>Pure unadulterated rubbish, and boy is it time to get rid of
>that hoary old myth.  In fairness to Tim Matthews, the same
>erroneous statement appears in many "saucer" books and from
>people who should know better.

>Kenneth Arnold very definitely used terms like "saucer" and
>"disc" to describe the _shape_, not the motion of what he saw.
>Here are some of the contemporaneous quotes from Arnold:

>Associated Press, e.g., Tacoma News Tribune and Portland Oregon
>Journal, June 26, 1947: "Arnold described the objects as 'flat
>like a pie-pan.'"

>Portland Oregon Journal, June 27:  "They were half-moon shaped,
>oval in front and convex in the rear.   ...There were no bulges
>or cowlings; they looked like a big flat disk."

>Norman Oklahoma Transcript, June 26:  "They were shaped like
>saucers and were so thin I could barely see them..."

>Chicago Tribune, June 25:  "They were silvery and shiny and
>seemed to be shaped like a pie plate."

>Radio interview, June 25:  "They looked something like a pie
>plate that was cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in
>the rear."

>Pendleton East Oregonian (article by Bill Bequette, first
>newsman to interview Arnold), June 26:   "[Arnold] described the
>objects as 'flat like a pie-pan and somewhat bat-shaped.'"

>Portland Oregonian, July 11, 1947:  "'I actually saw a type of
>aircraft slightly longer than it was wide, with a thickness
>about one twentieth as great as its width.'   '...I reckoned the
>saucers were 23 miles away,'  he said..."

>On July 12, less than three weeks after the sighting, Arnold was
>interviewed by A.F. intelligence and filed a written report.
>Several times within the report he referred to the objects as
>"saucer-like."  At the end of the report he drew a picture of
>what the objects appeared to look like at their closest approach
>with Mt. Rainier or other snow-capped peaks as a backdrop.  He
>wrote, "They seemed longer than wide, their thickness was about
>1/20th their width."

My God, all these different statements attributed to KA?

Did he say all of these, some of them or did the media get it
wrong?

He did use the term flying saucers and most interestingly when
he drew a picture of these in 1977 on the 30th anniversary of
the sighting he drew something closely resembling the 1938
Horten parabola!

No doubt Dave thinks that ET flies in aircraft adhering to the
principles of aerodynamics and reduced drag!!

>The picture Arnold drew of the objects looked something like
>(and please excuse the difficulty of trying to draw rounded
>shapes using only text -- use nonproportional font like Courier
>to view properly):
>
>                ____
>             (        *
>             )          \
>            (            )         -==========-
>             )          /
>             (  ____  *
>
>               Profile                 Edge-on
>

Nice picture and bery Horten/Northrop looking.

Edge-on mystery solved? Low Aspect ratio airfoil???


>Compare to some of Arnold's verbal descriptions: "half-moon
>shaped, oval in front and convex in the rear" like "a big flat
>disk."  Or,  "They looked something like a pie plate that was
>cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in the rear.  Or,
>"flat like a pie-pan and somewhat bat-shaped."

>Please tell us where the "Horten flying wing" is in all this?

Possibly of great significance because these aircraft were being
tested in the USA at the time and certainly in the North West.

Speaking of the North West that's where Paul Trent saw his disc.

Despite the fact that Royce Myers states that Trent believed
he'd seen a MMUFO you still cannot accept this possibility
despite the FACT that these designs were on the drawing board in
the 1930s -although at that time they were seriously
underpowered.

It has been established through my research that the US Navy
was conducting expts on this type of aircraft in 1947/8 and this
is admitted in a memo latter written by Col RD Wentworth
(Acting Chief of Intelligence) and working on Project Sign.

Yes they did have enough money to do all this, as Barrett
Tillman has made clear in several books on Navy a/c.

AIR 100-203-79 also states that the XF5U1 had been "operational
in recent years" and Thomas C Smith who worked for Chance-Vought
with a TS clearance designed parts of a jet-powered disc from
1946 onwards.

In relation to the jet-powered disc an article in a 1948 edition
of Aeroplane magazine by AS Weyl stated categorically that gas
turbines HAD BEEN FITTED to the XF5U1 (a simple thing to have
done, by removing some of the metalite paneling) and that the
new a/c had the potential to hover and travel up to 600mph.

Of course we never hear about this in Ufology.....

These revelations do not answer all the sightings - but it's
interesting to note how they are totally ignored by ET
proponents. Even Wendy Connors admits in a recent IUR article
that there was a large hangar at Wright-Patt closed off to even
fairly high-ranking personnel including those tasked with
so-called 'flying saucer ' investigations!

Wonder why?

Wouldn't have anything to do with those 'saucer' models they had
in 1947 would it??








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   Mar > Mar 18

              Vast Winged Conspiracies Something to Worry About

From: Ignatious Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:41:58 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:03:03 -0500
Subject: Vast Winged Conspiracies Something to Worry About


Vast Winged Conspiracies Something to Worry About

From the Pages of Paranoia

By Peter Carlson Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 16, 1999; Page C01

My head hurts like it's been shot through with fire as I write
this column, because every time I think forbidden thoughts my
brain gets zapped by the transmitter that was implanted in my
cranium by agents of the New World Order. But I'm going to write
it anyway, because the fate of the world depends on getting this
information out.

People look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them about the
transmitter in my brain, but they'll have to stop snickering
behind my back because now I've got proof. In the Winter 1999
issue of Paranoia magazine, there's a picture of the radio
transmitter that was placed in Robert Naeslund's brain. It looks
like a little beach umbrella. It was stuck in his head by the
Swedish Security Police because he was a threat to their secret
mind control projects. And if the Swedish police are doing this,
you just know that the FBI and the Russians must be doing it,
too. Which explains those strange voices in my head.

The FBI and the Russians are in cahoots, part of the whole New
World Order conspiracy that includes the Federal Reserve, the
Freemasons, the Bavarian Illuminati and the Bilderberg Group.
They're plotting to use the famine and chaos caused by the Y2K
bug as an excuse to take over the world by Dec. 31, 2000, and
make every human being carry a "Universal biometric ID card."
And if you don't believe me, you can read their secret plans in
the March issue of Free American -- the same issue that reveals
that microwaved food is bad for your blood and that bras cause
breast cancer.

You can't tell what's REALLY going on in the world unless you
read magazines like Paranoia and Free American and Media Bypass.
They aren't part of the elite media conspiracy. They're
published by "patriots" out in the heartland -- Media Bypass in
Indiana, Free American in New Mexico and Paranoia in Rhode
Island -- and they've popped up in the last decade to blow the
whistle on the international mind control program designed to
enslave us all. For instance, Media Bypass reveals that the
elections of 1992 and 1996 were "frauds" designed to put a "CIA
couple" in the White House. The whole thing was arranged by the
Council on Foreign Relations and the CIA with help from the
Rockefellers and the Rothschilds and the British monarchy. In
fact, when Clinton got his Rhodes scholarship back in the '60s,
he pledged to aid the Rhodes goal of "overthrowing the American
Government and reverting this continent and land mass to again
being a British Monarchy colony."

Free America reveals that all those FBI and ATF agents who have
invaded the mountains of North Carolina aren't really looking
for Eric Rudolph, the alleged abortion bomber. That's just their
excuse. They're really "TYRANTS preparing for war with the
American people." And the whole Monica scandal was just a
"political smoke screen" designed to distract the American
people "while Clinton and his cronies consistently and
inexorably move us deeper and deeper into the New World Order."

That's scary. But not half as scary as the Paranoia story called
"I Was a Sex Slave for the CIA." In it, a woman named Cathy
O'Brien, author of "TranceFormation of America," reveals how she
was imprisoned in "The Bunkhouse," a subbasement room in the
Pentagon, and used for the perverse sexual pleasure of high
government officials, including an unnamed former president. It
was a horrible ordeal, of course, but she did manage to come
back with some important information, including the revelation
that UFO abductions are really just cover stories for secret CIA
mind control experiments.

Sometimes, I read stuff like this and I think, Hey, that sounds
a little far- fetched. But then I realize that I'm not really
thinking that. The thought is being beamed into my brain via the
transmitter in my head. Which shows you just how far they will
go to stop the truth.

The ads in these magazines are just as important as the
articles. There are ads for the secret cancer cure that has been
suppressed by the drug industry since 1934. And ads for dried
foods and "emergency survival tabs" that can keep you alive when
the Y2K bug ends civilization as we know it and the New World
Order tries to starve us into submission.

There are also ads for books that the big chain stores refuse to
stock because they're in on the conspiracy, too. Books like
"Circle of Intrigue," which shows that "Ten Unseen Men Rule the
World!" And "Space Aliens From the Pentagon," which is the first
book to reveal the secrets of the flying saucers and their role
in the "mind control hoax copied from the Third Reich, covertly
implemented through 'national security' meant to perpetuate the
coercive monopoly of a corporate-state elite."

These magazines are absolutely essential, and that's why it
drives me wild when the clerk at Borders gives me that
condescending look when I buy them. I'm pretty sure he's a spy
for the New World Order and he's secretly photographing me.
That's why I always wear a ski mask and Groucho Marx glasses
when I shop there. The clerk is one of those young
whippersnappers who wear their baseball caps backward. Ever
wonder why millions of kids suddenly started doing that? I
suspect the transmitters in their brains told them to.

Lately, I've had a hard time finding these magazines on
newsstands. The last Media Bypass I could find was the December
issue. An accident? I doubt it. There are people in high places
who don't want us to read the truth.

If the New World Order has cracked down on your favorite
newsstand, you can get in touch with these mags via the Web.
Media Bypass is at www.4bypass.com. Free American is at
www.freeamerican.com. Paranoia doesn't seem to have a Web site
but you can subscribe by sending $19 to Box 1041, Providence,
R.I. 02901. The only problem is that your magazines will be
delivered to your door by a uniformed agent of the federal
government, which is pretty scary.

Well, I gotta go now. My brain is smoking from those shocks from
that transmitter. Remember: If you hear that I had a horrible
fatal "accident" after this column came out, don't believe a
word of it. There are no accidents in the New World Order.

=A9 Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company

____________________________________

Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News:
UFOSEEK... For the Source! http://www.ufoseek.org
Mirror Site: http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/






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   Mar > Mar 18

                   Re: Charges against Max Burns Dismissed

From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:14:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:06:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Charges against Max Burns Dismissed


>From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:06:29 EST
>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed


Max Burns' latest rant almost had me in tears, but before I have
to bite them back one more time I'd like to have some comment.

Max is patently and painfully not on the same frequency as most
of us. He rants and raves about the 'Sheffield Incident' yet
instead of actually telling us any facts he chooses to obfuscate
his ignorance by giving us diverting titbits about his personal
life. Details which he injected into the story long ago to
disguise the fact he was fabricating evidence/witnesses and
theories about the Sheffield Incident. Then he has the audacity
to complain we people make fun of him! Max needs to closely
examine the relationship between
Kitchens, heat and his proximity to both.

Listers - esp the US ones who haven't a clue what's going on-
must be bored to death by now. But here's a few points regarding
his last post which need some comment.


* We had your telephone number Max because you gave it to me by
email!

* Neither Dave, Tim nor myself are currently working for any
intelligence other than our own. You flatter us by suggesting
that we are in some way connected to the secret state. Take
break from your fantasies and face facts for once. We are just
good investigtors who have had enough of hucksters.

* If your 'research' into the Sheffield Incident is as abysmal
as your 'research' into UFO investigators then my case is well
and truly rested. I don't know Dave Clarke 'from his University
days'. I met him long before that. Facts Max - god is in the
details y'know.

* My address for your legal toadies is 38 Highmoor Crescent,
Clifton, Brighouse, West Yorkshire, HD6 4HZ, as any fule kno.
Let the writs roll baby.

* BUFORA are a hapless bunch of individuals who cannot see the
wood for the trees. Your manipulation of them is working merely
because they are in such disarray that any snake oil barker is
welcome in their tent.

* Dave is and remains BUFORA Press Officer - much to your
chagrin. Live with it.

Happy Trails

Andy





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   Mar > Mar 18

                      Re: The '99 Southport Conference

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 99 12:59:42 PST
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:22:32 -0500
Subject: Re: The '99 Southport Conference


>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:11:52 +0000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Countdown To The Millennium!

>Countdown to the  Millennium!

>I went to this one day conference in Southport, not to see our
>illustrious leader of UFOMEK, Jerry Anderson, pontificate
>proudly about his research, but to actually meet several people
>that I know from the internet. I first saw the advertisement via
>an email from Tim Matthews, him of MI5 connections, you know,
>nudge nudge, wink, wink.

>At the conclusion of Jenny's talk another interval was had, this
>time I purchased some munchies because I was hungry and the food
>on offer looked quite appetising and was also quite cheap. Time
>for another chat with one of the speakers of the conference,
>this time it was Andy Roberts turn. I must admit that when I go
>to a conference I like nothing more than meeting the people
>involved and "grilling" them. Andy is quite an amiable fellow in
>my opinion, and quite likeable. We spoke about his recent tete a
>tete with Jerome Clarke on the UFO Updates mailing list, and how
>American understanding of British Ufology is not up to the level
>of understanding that we Brits have of American Ufology.

But of course.  We Americans could never possibly aspire to the
level of wisdom daily demonstrated by our British friends.
Sadly, we ought never to have gotten caught up in that 1776
business. If we'd just managed to keep our collective cool, you
could keep telling us what and how to think about UFOs and
everything else for that matter, and we'd be so much smarter
(and, alas, our food so much worse; on the other hand, our beer
would be better). From now on, I pledge to believe without
question everything Andy Roberts tells us, and I urge all of my
fellow Americans to do likewise, on pain of having Sean and Andy
congratulate themselves yet again on their staggering
intellectual superiority.

Even if we know nothing else, however, we poor unenlightened
Yanks know how to spell colleagues' last names correctly.
Please note how the last name -- which has seen print, by the
way, some zillions of times since the 1960s -- is here rendered:

Jerome Clark*


*Not related to David Clarke












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   Mar > Mar 18

              Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:55:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:25:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed


>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:32:57 +1000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Lawrie Williams <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Alien Rapture: TR-3B Flying Triangle Revealed

<snip>

>Maybe gravity cannot penetrate atomic nucleii and so when this
>method creates a uniform blanket of nucleii it results in a
>battier that is only 11% permeable to the forces of gravity.

<snip>

Eugene Podkeltnov, John Schnurer, et. al. demonstrated that a
rotating, superconducting (SC) disk can cause a reduction in the
effects of gravity for a mass suspended above the disk.  Doug
Torr and Ning Li have attempted to explain this by saying that
the rotating ions in the crystal lattice of the SC disk create a
gravitomagnetic field which can be in opposition to the Earth's
gravity.  Some Russian researchers say that a gravitomagnetic
field may be created by any rotating mass but it is more
pronounced when the atoms' nucleii have a integral half-spin.
Certain elements have isotopes which meet this requirement.  Two
isotopes of mercury, Hg(199) and Hg(201), comprising 14.9% and
13.2% respectively of naturally occuring mercury, have integral
half-spin.

It is interesting to note that one of Arts Parts, the "scraping"
from the exterior of the crashed UFO, has elements which also
meet this criterion.  In one of these elements, Bismuth, 99.99%
of the naturally occuring isotope has a half-spin nucleus.

That being said, I do not believe in the TR-3B as presented by
Ed; however, I would not be surprised if some of the triangular
UFOs are ours.

For further information, see:

http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/tors/

Terry





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   Mar > Mar 18

                   Re: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:12:54 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:30:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference


>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:41:24 -0500
>From: Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Otherworld Reality - UK Conference
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>With the compliments of His Grace:

To his grace go my good enchilado's

>At these prices (and I should say I have no idea how many seats
>have to be filled to break even) at least the organizers will be
>able to play the speakers their expenses. UNLIKE SOME conference
>organizers in the UK who seem to like to hear the sound of
>drumming fingers for 12 months and more. No names, no pack drill,
>at least if I get paid by the end of the month. And no, I'm not
>talking about Fortean Times, who do the business most
>efficiently.

Do I detect a hint of 'remarks' to certain unmentioned
individuals or organisations?

>This is not some gee-whizzer's UFO conference in Leeds;

Funny that I've never been to a Leeds conference.

>it's cutting-edge stuff,

Sharp knife eh?

>at a tenner sterling a top-rank talking head.

For that money I'd want a whole body <g>

>That doesn't mean I expect to agree with everything, or even
>anything entirely, that I hear, but attenders will surely be
>getting value for money.

I certainly hope that you do, you can have my value for money as
well because I will not be attending. If I had that much money
spare (buying a house forces skintness atm) then I would trot
off to New York for the Intruders conference. Because it would
not be a huge amount more and I could make a mini-break of it.
_and_ the people there I would dearly like to see.

>And what do you think it costs to ship six out of eleven speakers
>from North America to the UK, put them up somewhere half decent
>in London, feed them occasionally - bit of crust and mousetrap,
>you know -

Wow, better fed than me!

>and fly them home again?

Fly then home? What are you doing, once you get someone halfway
decent you should hold on to them and never let them go, or am I
thinking of a good woman?

>I don't think Stan Krippner &
>Co would much appreciate being crated up and freighted as
>livestock, somehow.

I don't know some people ay? <g>


>best wishes
>Pennycatcher D. Meanygroat
>Flint Skin

Since you plead poverty I take it that you have already paid for
your ticket??? <G>



--

    In an infinite universe infinitely anything is possible.
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
            UFO page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/






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   Mar > Mar 18

                        Re: Mysterious Valley Report?

From: Bobby Dickey <listman2@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:35:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:33:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Mysterious Valley Report?


I heard something on CNN a couple of weeks ago about a web site
called the Mysterious Valley Report. I cant find it. Anybody
know where it is??


listman2@juno.com
Glen Allen, Virginia
I have email only. No Web connection yet.





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                Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:32:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:39:39 -0500
Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network


>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:26:58 -0500

>>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:21:04 -0000

>>>Well paid story tellers? The abductees? Better tell them.
>>>They're still waiting for that first paycheck

>>So these 'abductees' writing books and having books written
>>about them are not being paid a penny?  Didn't Pamela
>>Stonebrooke get paid $50,000 for her book.

>Sigh. Not again.

>Most abductees -- the vast majority -- never write one word
>about their experiences.

>And books, as perhaps Tim himself has discovered, don't pay all
>that well. Many advances, even from major publishers, are less,
>maybe far less, than this alleged $50,000. Most books by
>abductees are published by small presses, which pay less than
>the major publishers do. And of course the abductees with books
>written about them normally don't get a cent (Linda Cortile is
>the only exception I know of).

>Besides, even if Pamela really got that sum, it's not as much
>money as it seems. Perhaps the advance was divided into three
>pieces -- one-third given her before she writes, one-third after
>she delivers the manuscript, and the remaining third when the
>book is published. That would give her $16667 during the period
>when she wrote her book. How long does it take to write a book,
>Tim? Would $16667 buy that much time, at the normal pay-rates an
>educated person expects? Would even the full $50,000 (if Pamela
>got that much up front) pay for the time?

>Many, if not most, people who write books end up subsidizing the
>books themselves to some degree. Either they have to write in
>what normally would be their spare time, or they live on less
>money, while they're writing, than they'd make if they pursued
>some other line of work. And many, if not most, books never earn
>their authors one cent past the advance.

>As for Tim's idea  that there aren't thousands of abductees, but
>instead "just a bunch of well-paid story tellers and believers
>telling you this"=85I do hope the volume he's been flacking here
>is better researched than this ridiculous claim.


Speaking from my own direct experience, the advance for "Crash
at Corona" was all of $8000 (against Royalties of course). Half
was paid up front and half upon delivery. This was split two
ways after the 15% agent fee. I got all of a 10K advance for TOP
SECRET/ MAJIC.. again half up front and minus 15%. Royalty
statements, almost always late, are delivered at 6 month
intervals, but 3 months after the end of the 6 months. Typically
25-35% is held back for returns. Not a good way to feed a
family. I must add that Betty and Barney Hill did get a % of
John Fuller's royalties.

I think Tim needs to get facts in hand before putting processor
in gear.





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   Mar > Mar 18

                   Re: SPI News From England February 1999

From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:42:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:47:33 -0500
Subject: Re: SPI News From England February 1999



>From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:41:32 EST
>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: SPI News From England February 1999


>SPI NEWS FROM ENGLAND
>FEBRUARY 1999
>COMPILED BY MALCOLM ROBINSON.

<whopping snips>

>Some people believe
>that Max shouldn't have his say, that he is talking nonsense,
>but I am of the opinion that I live here in the U.K., that
>everyone has the right to their opinion, this isn't Russia, we
>don't stop people talking here, and it will need to be a very
>brave man who will tell me not to put Max Burns on a BUFORA
>platform in June.

Hey, Malcolm, don't put Max Burns on a BUFORA platform in June.

Gosh, that took real courage... perhaps as much as it costs me
to do up my bootlaces, but considerably less than it takes for
me to drink tea with milk in it.

Malcolm Robinson's thinking, or "philosophy" as Mad Max promotes
it, is a prize specimen of ufological wisdom (phrase copyright
Ed Stewart). Sure, everyone has a right to their opinion, but
that doesn't make all opinions equal. When the opinion in
question is based on distortions of witness testimony, on
massive leaps of illogic, on lack of research (please name, or
at least number, all the RAF Tornado pilots who are from ethnic
minorities, if any), on implausible or even fantastic premisses,
and the proponent can offer no proof of its central proposition
- when such proof would be readily available through easily
accessible channels - then BUFORA should _not_ be giving that
opinion a platform.

This has nothing to do with free speech or its suppression.
Personally, I'm all for free speech, and Max has reached a far
wider audience on the Internet with his ravings than will settle
into comfortable seats in the Marylebone Road in June. For
Robinson, or Max, to witter about fundamental rights is merely a
distraction, a scarlet Clupea harengus, and if it's deliberate
and characteristic smoke-blowing in Max's case it's muddled in
Robinson's.

The issue is of responsibility, and whether BUFORA is
discharging any kind of responsibility - for instance to some
generally agreed notion of the nature of evidence, and logical
argument, and reasonable inferences - in promoting Mad Max's
fatuous artefact. For similar reasons I wouldn't expect "Nature"
to publish the apocalyptic fantasies of David Jacobs, or
Velikovsky's potty ideas, or the mildly barking neo-Newtonian
ramblings of Ronald Pearson (who thinks the ether exists and the
Universe has a "brain-like" structure - whatever that means).

But one doesn't even have to wave the shibboleth-word "science"
about to see that BUFORA isn't helping to defend any such
essential rhetorical tools. If BUFORA thinks it's serving some
higher principle by presenting Max's tired old tosh, so much the
worse for BUFORA, because all this performance will serve is the
well-founded perception that "ufologists" can't tell decent
research (in this case David Clarke's) from crapulous fantasy.

If Max were claiming to be the surviving Tornado crew member, on
the other hand, I'd be all for letting him have his say. I enjoy
seeing mythopoeic narrators in action, and Max would have a
much-needed chance to hone his skills as a stand-up comic. But
Max isn't - yet - claiming a personal engagement in his version
of events. He's just presenting a particularly ill-fabricated
interpretation of them. BUFORA has no obligation whatever to
give him a platform, and it ought to recognize its greater duty
to careful reasoning and disinterested researchers.

best wishes
Preceptorian D. Moufflonard
Supplier of Tarpaulin to HM Gov't






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   Mar > Mar 18

                Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 99 20:00:15 PST
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:50:39 -0500
Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network


>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:26:58 -0500

>>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:21:04 -0000

>>>Well paid story tellers? The abductees? Better tell them.
>>>They're still waiting for that first paycheck

>>So these 'abductees' writing books and having books written
>>about them are not being paid a penny?  Didn't Pamela
>>Stonebrooke get paid $50,000 for her book.


>As for Tim's idea  that there aren't thousands of abductees, but
>instead "just a bunch of well-paid story tellers and believers
>telling you this"=85I do hope the volume he's been flacking here
>is better researched than this ridiculous claim.

>Greg Sandow


Greg,

The sort of childish nonsense Tim is peddling here inclines this
reader to disbelieve just about anything he says.  It's the
tiresome, self-serving, and hackneyed notion that anybody who
says something one doesn't want to hear -- and Tim evidently
very much does not want to hear what abductees have to say -- is
operating from the most transparently dishonorable motives.
(Tim himself, on this very list, has been on the receiving end
of such accusations. You'd think he'd have learned from the
experience.) Not wanting to follow suit where Tim's words are
concerned, I'll grant him his sincerity, however sadly
misguided, however simplistically expressed.  I just hope that
one day he learns that, just as in life, UFO controversies are
seldom written in black and white.

Jerry Clark







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   Mar > Mar 18

             1996 - Crowds Turn Out To Chase UFOs In SE Michigan

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 04:35:08 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:18:44 -0500
Subject: 1996 - Crowds Turn Out To Chase UFOs In SE Michigan


[List only]

Source:

http://www.detnews.com/1999/metro/9903/17/03170134.htm

This is a famous incident, of course, but some of you may not
know of the drawing in The Detroit News.

Stig

***

Wednesday, March 17, 1999

Metro

Michigan at the Millennium: Crowds turn out to chase UFOs near
Milan

By Vivian M. Baulch / The Detroit News

**

UFO sightings often come in bunches, like the spate that
tantalized southeast Michigan in 1966.

After a few days of sighting reports by civilians, on March 17
two Washtenaw County Sheriff's deputies, Sgt. Neil Schneider and
Deputy David Fitzpatrick, said they saw three or four red, white
and green circular objects oscillating and glowing near Milan
about 4 a.m.

They called Willow Run Run Airport officials but radar could not
confirm the report.

Two more Washtenaw deputies, Buford Bushroe and John Foster,
chased the same types of objects three days later. Livingston
and Monroe County residents also reported seeing the objects.

The Detroit News carried the police chase story and a drawing of
a quilted football-like UFO with lights, dome and antennae.

When Dexter Patrolman Robert Huniwell saw the object at 9:30
p.m. at Quigly and Brand, Washtenaw County Sheriff Douglas
Harvey ordered all available deputies to the scene. Six patrol
cars, two men in each, and three detectives converged on the
area. They chased the flying object along Island Lake Road
without catching it.

Farm owner Frank Mannor and his family said they came within 500
yards, "It wasn't like the pictures of a flying saucer and it
had a coral-like surface," Mannor said.

Carloads of students from nearby University of Michigan and
Eastern Michigan converged on the area after hearing radio
reports.

The Air Force sent in "Project Blue Book" astronomer and UFO
expert J. Allen Hynek, who drove around for two hours and 45
minutes. "Swamp gas" he concluded.

"Marsh gas usually has no smell, but sounds like the small
popping explosions similar to a gas burner igniting. The gas
forms from decomposition of vegetation. It seems likely that as
the present spring thaws came, the gases methane, hydrogen
sulfide and phosphine, resulting from decomposition of organic
materials, were released."

But William Van Horn, a local civil defense director and pilot
who claimed he had seen the UFOs, was outraged by the report. A
Hillsdale native, Van Horn said he grew up next to a swamp and
knew more about swamp gas than Hynek.

"A lot of good people are being ridiculed," Van Horn concluded.

Each day, Michigan at the Millenium takes a look at the people,
events and ideas that have shaped our world.


Copyright 1999, The Detroit News





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   Mar > Mar 18

             Woman Puts Up Money To Fund Et Alien Rescue Mission

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 05:06:51 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:25:32 -0500
Subject: Woman Puts Up Money To Fund Et Alien Rescue Mission


[List only]

Source: The Sydney Morning Herald,

http://www.smh.com.au/news/9903/17/text/sit.html

Stig

***

STAY IN TOUCH

Date: 17/03/99

Edited by KENDALL HILL

<snip>

Aliens: let them eat fruitcake

It's like our very own Roswell. (You know, when the little grey
men/crash test dummies fell to earth in New Mexico in 1947...)

The UFO Report Sightings Hotline sent out a bulletin yesterday
headed "Woman puts up money to fund ET alien rescue mission".

The mystery woman, from NSW, flew to Perth last night to meet
local outback geophysicist Doc Stone, who's checking her
credentials (read: sanity) before accepting her brief ... and
money ... to launch a search party for a stranded UFO.

"It's not unusual for us to make an expedition like this, but
... I don't think that we've ever been commissioned or paid to
look for flying saucers before," says Stone.

The hotline's resident sceptic, Ross Dowe, says "Mrs M" is
desperate to find the crash-landed spaceship, help the stranded
aliens repair it, then send them on their intergalactic way.

Dowe, who's acting as go-between for the mission, says Mrs M
won't say how she discovered the stranded beings. "But she says
some of the aliens have died due to heat exhaustion and lack of
water," says Dowe.

She also told him: "These beings are off-planet engineers and as
they were passing by, they suddenly experienced some problems,
they made a forced landing but ended up in the desert a thousand
miles from no-where."

It's the risk you take when you fly around the universe on field
missions.

Dowe is restrained in his appraisal of the situation. "I reckon
she's gotta be a fruitcake."

<snip>

This material is subject to copyright and any unauthorised use,
copying or mirroring is prohibited.









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   Mar > Mar 18

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:53:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:28:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:14:22 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:21:04 -0000
>>Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:21:38 -0500
>>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:50:09 -0500
>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


.>><T_Matthew>Yes, I've got all the documents (well nearly all) and spent>
>>a great deal of time looking into them and asking people all the
>>>difficult questions. To me the thing starts off with a lie; "On 24th
>>>June 1947....Kenneth Arnold saw 9 flying discs". No he didn't. There>

>Bruce Maccabee:
>>>Huh?  He didn't see 9 flying discs?  Then what did Arnold report?>>

>>Good question Bruce and I think we've debated this before. One
>>of his drawings was of a Horten wing>>

>As is detailed below, _all_ of Arnold's initial descriptions and
>his initial drawing were of disc-shaped objects.  Arnold later
>added the description and drawing that applied to only one of
>the objects, what Tim Matthews refers to as a "Horten wing."
>But Arnold said 8 of the 9 objects were clearly disc-like or
>saucer-like in shape.


Dave,

Thanks for compilation of Arnold statements from the early days.
It certainly appears that "skipping like a saucers on the water" or
words to that effect were not part of the "lore" of 1947 but rather
added in later.






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   Mar > Mar 18

                       Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 04:03:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:45:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets


Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:00
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
From: Joachim Koch <achimkoch@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

Hello List!

I would like to tell you that, in the light of recent interest
regarding our "New discoveries in Betty Hill's 'Star Map' ", I
have reorganized and relocated the webpages so that those of you
who are interested in this matter have easier and faster access.

The URL for "New Discoveries in Betty Hill's 'Star Map' " is:

http://www.ufos.de/               (best viewed with IE 4.0)

Then click in the navigation bar to the left under 'Archive' on
"Themen", then on 'A', then on 'Abduktionen', then follow the
links to "New Discoveries in Betty Hill's 'Star Map' ". Enjoy
and take some time.

I also have included sketches and drawings of Mrs. Fish, Betty
Hill and ourselves. I think, if you take a look at the sketches
of our solar system (just click on the thumbnails) at the time
around the abduction took place, it now becomes clearer for you
what is meant. Though these are our two-dimensional plots (from
1993) of three-dimensional orbits, it gives you quite a good
impression how the lines connect planets and asteroids.

>From: Christophe Meessen <meessen@mailclub.net>
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:50:30 +0100
>Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:45:45 -0500
>Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

[...]

>So for now I would say that if the map shows a configuration of
>a dynamic system (i.e. our solar system) at a given time, it is
>more probable that the porposed "trade routes" may also be a
>dynamic configuration corresponding to the given time.

>For instance a month before, where Mercury is in front of the
>Sun, I doubt that the "trade route" linking Jupiter to Venus
>would still pass by Mercury. So I have a few doubts with the
>"iron route" interpretation proposed by Koch and Kyborg.

The term "iron route" was created by us because it was so
intriguing that the bodies connected with the lines all had
something in common with this element. Again we remind you that
the "Hill pattern" is a three-dimensional one. The orbits of the
planets and asteroids are more or less inclined against the
ecliptical plane. So what seems to be a short line in the
two-dimensional plot may be a long way to go in reality where it
goes above and below the ecliptic plane.

Yes, our solar system is a very dynamic one and so you need a
simulation program that displays this quite accurately what
"dance of the planets" does. In this programm, you can move the
celestial bodies back and forth at various speeds and watch this
from all viewpoints and angles in space. But even if you don't
have it, we have given the heliocentric positions in our
analysis so you have the exact data for the time in question  in
case your plots look different. They are where they are.

>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:14:50 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:34:18 -0500
>Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

[...]

>I think it would be interesting to hear Terry's views on the
>strengths and weakness of this alternate interpretation as he
>did with previous other interpretations, including another
>alternate opinion for Betty's map that was proposed by fellow
>astronomer Carl Sagan.

Yes, Dear Friend, it really would be great but don't forget that
Terry has already done so together with Stanton (thoroughly
enough ?) and what did Stanton wrote."..finally we gave up...".
Is he (are they) still unbiased?

>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:42:37 -0400
>Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:37:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

[...]

>I can find no excuse for including asteroids.

This is not a matter of excusions. We explain in detail in our
text how we came across the asteroids. We found some planets
strickingly matching parts of Betty's pattern but parts were
missing. So we searched what this could be and became aware of
the asteroids. How and why and how exciting this search was,
please read in section #4 of the website named:"The Discovery".

>It was Betty who pushed the alien for info as to origin, not the
>leader who pushed to "educate" Betty.

Yes, Betty asked him where his homeport was and subsequently he
tried to find out what she knew about the stars - and finally
gave up:"If you don't know where you are[in this map] then there
is no way for me to tell you where I am from."

>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:08:15 +0000
>Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:43:55 -0500
>Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

[...]

>But back to the point, when trying to communicate with less
>technologically developed races do we not try to establish a
>common ground?

Yes, very true! This is the crucial point why we always say that
in the Hill's story, especially when it comes to the "map", one
has to look for the context of the whole. Mrs. Fish and the
early resarchers only cared for the map and eagerly tried to
find a pattern of stars - because Betty thought it to be a map
of stars. But when you look at the conversation where the
appearance of the "map" is embedded it becomes clear that a kind
of astronomy lession to calibrate the level of understanding
should have started if Betty only knew more about the stars. But
the attempt failed. This is not fiction, it is in the text of
the hypnosis protocols.

Best wishes to all

Joachim Koch







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   Mar > Mar 18

                               'UFO Awareness'

From: Jeremy Anderson <Jerry@uforesearch.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:12:30 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:56:37 -0500
Subject: 'UFO Awareness'



Dear colleges,

In order to promote co-operation between UFO research groups
both nationally and internationally, and also to 'educate' the
general public as to the role such groups, we propose the
following:

UFOMEK (UFO Monitors East Kent (UK) ), in conjunction with
CONTACT UK, suggest that groups and independent researchers all
over the UK (and hopefully elsewhere in the world), will take
the opportunity this October to launch project 'UFO AWARENESS'.

The idea is to put over to the populace that there _is_ serious
research taking place into the UFO subject.

Most people, I'm sure you'll agree, when confronted with the
term 'UFO', immediately conjure up visions of little green men
with ray guns. This is due mainly to the tabloid and supermarket
so-called 'newspapers', and I use the term 'newspapers' loosely
in their case!

We intend to target locations such as libraries, community
centres, schools etc., in order to get the message across.

This may involve erecting stands and giving talks to interested
parties, as well as answering questions and showing video
sources etc.

No one is expected to divulge witness's names or details,
another point that must be made.

Of course, the idea is still in the embryo stage, but it is
hoped that UFOMEK and CONTACT UK can not only bring groups and
researchers together, but also promote the constructive and
varied work of those of us involved in the subject.

If you have any comments, ideas, or would like to take part,
then please contact me via Updates or my personal e-mail
address.

Jerry Anderson UFOMEK UK


......An Open Mind Is A Healthy Mind......
The Truth Is Out There......Somewhere....






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   Mar > Mar 18

                           (eS) RealTime News ...

From: Dave Watanabe - exoScience <davew@exosci.com>
Date: 18 Mar 1999 09:51:41 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:00:06 -0500
Subject: (eS) RealTime News ...

exoScience - http://www.exosci.com/

Hey everyone,

Want to get space news that's current up to the minute?  I've
just deployed RealTime News on the exosci.com website.
exoScience now offers links to space news stories all across the
internet, and these stories are updated in RealTime every 10
minutes of the day!

Catch news as it happens!
http://www.exosci.com/

Also, exoScience is now linked with My Netscape, a wonderful
customizable website at:

http://my.netscape.com/

You can add exoScience news to your customized homepage (you
must have a Netscape account first) by going to:

http://my.netscape.com/preview_channel.tmpl?services=net.315

Thanks,

Dave Watanabe





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                         PRG Press Release - 3/18/99

From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:19:18 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:02:34 -0500
Subject: PRG Press Release - 3/18/99

Paradigm Research Group

Press Release

March 18, 1999

On Wednesday, March 24, Dr. Steven Greer, the International
Director of the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial
Intelligence (CSETI), will address the McClendon Study Group at
the National Press Club.  The Press Club is located at 529 14th
Street (13th Floor) at F Street, NW.  The presentation will
begin at 7:30 p.m.  The press, public and legislative staff are
invited. There is no charge.

On Thursday, March 25, Dr. Greer, lectures on "Extraterrestrial
Intelligence - The Evidence and Implications", in Largo,
Maryland at the Hallam Theatre in the Queen Anne Fine Arts
Building of the Prince George's Community College, from 8 to 10
pm. Admission: $5 at the door. Located off  Interstate 95/495
exit 15 east, to south on Rte. 202 about a half mile on  the
right. Call 888-ET-CSETI or 301-249-3915, or send an email to
[coordinator@cseti.org] for more information.

Dr. Greer has been meeting with government officials on the
UFO/ET reality since 1990 and has been directly or indirectly
involved with briefings of President Clinton, members of his
staff, the Director of the CIA, Secretary General of the United
Nations, staff members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, members of
the House and Senate, and many others.  He is a leader in the
citizen movement calling for Congressional hearings of testimony
by more than 100 available government employees, many of high
rank and station, who have firsthand experience with events and
evidence relating to extraterrestrial phenomena.

The McClendon Study Group has met every other Wednesday since
1989, and was begun by senior White House correspondent Sarah
McClendon to provide interested public and press in-depth
background on important news stories. Past speakers include FBI
Director William Sessions, DC Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes
Norton, Mayor Marion Barry, consumer advocate Ralph Nader,
former CNN staffers April Oliver and Jack Smith, David Levy of
the National Security Council and many others in the news.

Recent, relevant background information:  On Thursday, March 4,
The Learning Channel aired a documentary by James Fox entitled
UFOs: 50 Years of Denial. Two distinguished Americans, among
others, are interviewed and stated the following:

Dr. Edgar Mitchell, MIT Ph.D., Apollo 14 astronaut, moon
alumnus: "I've talked with people of stature, of military and
government credentials and position, and heard their stories,
and their desire to tell their stories openly to the
public=85=85=85.The first hand experience of these credible witnesses
that, now in advanced years, are anxious to tell their story, we
can't deny that, and the evidence points to the fact that
Roswell was a real incident, and that indeed an alien craft did
crash, and that material was recovered from that crash site=85"

Col. Philip J. Corso, career Army intelligence officer with 19
commendations: "The message from my book (The Day After Roswell)
I'd like to see is that the younger generation look at this and
see what we did, see the help we got from outer space and that
these beings exist.  Give this information to the world and the
young people in this country=85=85.. Don't hide it and tell lies and
make stories.  They are not stupid.  It's their information.  It
doesn't belong to the Army or the Department of Defense.  If it
is classified, take the classification off and give it to them."
Before his death on July 16, 1998, Col. Corso signed an
affidavit legally testifying to the allegations in his book.

Contact CSETI and Dr. Steven Greer: 540-456-8302
Dr_ET@compuserve.com

Contact Paradigm Research Group:        301-564-1820
ParadigmRG@aol.com





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   Mar > Mar 18

                     CFS & The Alien Abduction Scenario?

From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:45:54 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:06:50 -0500
Subject: CFS & The Alien Abduction Scenario?


Max Burns
Researcher

Is there a connection between "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis"
(Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) & The Alien Abduction Scenario?

Investigator Max Burns
shares his thoughts and his initial findings.

Is there a connection between "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" or M.E
(Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) and the alien abduction scenario?
That's quite a big question to ask in these days of ridicule
from those who seek to conceal the truth, whatever that truth
may be? "The truth is a three sided blade" - the truth,
according to the pro ETH people; the truth, according to the
hard line skeptic's; and the governmental bodies. Somewhere
inside all of this the truth may exist, but it all boils down to
one thing, the hard line. Skeptics love to quote like a load of
Phillip Klass clones ie. "Where's your evidence". Perhaps I may
well have discovered some. I will let the readers be the judge
of that for now.

It has come to light through my own research into the subject of
UFO's & alien abduction and it would appear at first glance that
there may well be a link with "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis"
(Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) and the alien abduction scenario. I
have during the course of my work over the last two years been a
friendly ear to an abductee, a thirty-two year old female from
the UK who as well as having a long history of medical problems
has been diagnosed with M.E. (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome). Even
more interesting is that she is a member of an abductee group
that meets once a month in London. This group has 20 members who
attend regularly. These people are a fair cross section of the
populace that travels from all around the country to the
meetings. They are also from different ethnic and cultural
backgrounds and all have different doctors.

Although I am good friends with the woman mentioned above I also
know other members of this group. About three months ago I was
interested to learn that out of the 20 members of the group
fourteen members of the group have all been medically diagnosed
with "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome).
After doing some cursory investigation work I have confirmed
from B.R.A.M.E. (Blue Ribbon Association Myalgic
Encephalomyelitis, a world-wide network for this illness with
groups in 18 countries) that the ME/CFS Charities Alliance
CONSIDERS that the report's estimate of 500,000 - 1 million
sufferers in the UK (1-2% of the population, ) is a vast
overestimate of the true situation. The data used includes
studies of patients with chronic fatigue, rather than chronic
fatigue syndrome. Out of the total figure about 25% of sufferers
are house-bound.

What is CFS? Chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is an emerging
illness characterized by debilitating fatigue (experienced as
exhaustion and extremely poor stamina), neurological problems
and a variety of flu-like symptoms. The illness is also known as
chronic fatigue immune dysfunction syndrome (CFIDS) and outside
of the USA is usually known as myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME).
In the past the syndrome has been known as chronic Epstein-Barr
virus (CEBV). The core symptoms include excessive fatigue,
general pain, mental fogginess and often gastrointestinal
problems. Many other symptoms will also be present however they
will typically be different among different patients. These
include: fatigue following stressful activities, headaches, sore
throat; sleep disorders, abnormal temperature and others. The
degree of severity can differ widely among patients and will
also vary over time for the same patient. Severity can vary
between getting unusually fatigued following stressful events to
being totally bedridden and completely disabled. The symptoms
will tend to wax and wane over time. This variation, in addition
to the fact that the cause of the disease is not yet known,
makes this illness difficult to diagnose.

What causes CFS? The cause of the illness is not yet known.
Current theories are looking at the possibilities of
neuroendocrine dysfunction, viruses, environmental toxins,
genetic predisposition, or a combination of these. For a time it
was thought that Epstein-Barr Virus (EBV), the cause of
mononucleosis, might cause CFS but recent research has
discounted this idea. The illness seems to prompt a chronic
immune reaction in the body, however it is not clear that this
is in response to any actual infection -- this may only be a
dysfunction of the immune system itself. A recent concept
promulgated by Prof. Mark Demitrack is that CFS is a generalized
condition which may have any of several causes (in the same way
that the condition called high blood pressure is not caused by
any one single factor). It *is* known that stressors, physical
or emotional, seems to make CFS worse. Some current research
continues to investigate possible viral causes including HHV-6,
other herpes viruses, enteroviruses, and retroviruses.
Additionally, co-factors (such as genetic predisposition,
stress, environment, gender, age, and prior illness) appear to
play an important role in the development and course of the
illness. Many medical observers have noted that CFS seems often
to be "triggered" by some stressful event, but in all likelihood
the condition was latent beforehand. Some people will appear to
get CFS following a viral infection, or a head injury, or
surgery, excessive use of antibiotics, or some other traumatic
event. Yet it's unlikely that these events on their own could be
a primary cause.

Is CFS a "real" disease? At this early point many practicing
clinicians remain unconvinced that CFS is a genuine illness,
although it is slowly increasing in acceptance. The reluctance
is due in part to the facts that no specific cause has yet been
found, there is no observable marker that doctors can use to
specifically identify the illness, and most doctors are not yet
familiar with the peer-reviewed research which does tend to
legitimize this disease.

Emerging illnesses such as CFS typically go through a period of
many years before they are accepted by the medical community,
and during that interim time patients who have these new,
unproven illnesses are all too often dismissed as being
"psychiatric cases". This has been the experience with CFS as
well. But many top-level researchers are showing that this is a
distinct, organic illness. This includes research by Anthony
Komaroff (Harvard), Jay Levy (UCSF), Nancy Klimas (U. Miami),
Andrew Lloyd (U. New South Wales), Stephen Straus (NIH), and
others.

Who gets CFS? Few studies address this question. Several show
that 70 to 80 percent of CFS patients are women, although some
researchers say that these are normal figures for any
immune-related illness. There are a couple of points here. 1.
These figures seem to match up with the male/female ratio of
people who claim to have been abducted; 70 to 80 percent are
female. 2. The 1-2% of the population which may have CFS also
matches the figures postulated by Dr David Jacobs and Bud
Hopkins among others that claim that this figure could be a fare
representation of the population of the planet that are being
abducted.

Are these correlations in the figures just coincidence? Some
studies indicate that CFS, is less common among lower income
people and minorities, but critics point out that the average
CFS patient sees so very many doctors before they can get a
diagnosis that only those with great access to medical care get
counted in such studies, thus giving a bias with regards to
income and race. NEW ENZYME FOUND IN CFS PATIENTS CFIDS ASSOC OF
AMERICA TEMPLE RESEARCHERS DISCOVER NEW HUMAN ENZYME: A Novel
Enzyme Found in CFS Patients May Alter Cellular Processes.

Dr. Robert Suhadolnik and his research team at Temple University
School of Medicine reported today that studies of patients with
chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) have led to the identification of
a new human enzyme. Suhadolnik, a professor of biochemistry and
a member of the university's Fels Institute for Cancer Research
and Molecular Biology, says of the new findings: "We are greatly
encouraged by the trend we see. All CFS patients tested have
this new enzyme, while none of the healthy controls do." The new
findings, reported at a research meeting sponsored by the
American Association for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, are based on
preliminary data from a limited number of patients. However,
larger studies are already underway and have attracted financial
support from the National Institutes of Health.

Chronic fatigue syndrome, also known as chronic fatigue and
immune dysfunction syndrome (CFIDS), is a complex illness
characterized by incapacitating fatigue, neurological problems
and a constellation of other debilitating symptoms. The cause of
the illness is unknown and, since no drug has been found to be
effective against CFS, treatment is limited to alleviating the
symptoms. CFS affects at least 500,000 American adults and
children. The newly discovered enzyme may explain common
observations in patients with CFS: an inability to control
common viruses (like Epstein-Barr virus and human herpes virus
and an inability to maintain cellular energy. According to
Suhadolnik, the viral pathway in which this newly discovered
protein is active, known as the RNase L antiviral pathway, may
control both processes. "This new enzyme in CFS may not function
as well as the normal RNase L found in healthy people. It may
explain why CFS patients' bodies have a hard time maintaining
the energy necessary for cellular growth. We are hopeful that
ongoing further studies will lead to a better understanding of
some other processes at work in this puzzling illness."

The new findings add to mounting evidence of subtle, yet
striking, abnormalities found in people with CFS. "Because the
new enzyme has been found in CFS patients but not in healthy
controls, it is potentially the basis for a laboratory test for
CFS, which is diagnosed today only through its clinical
symptoms," says Dr. Antonio Goncalves, associate vice provost
for science and technology at Temple University. The university
has filed a patent application for such a test and is seeking a
corporate partner to further develop and license the test.
Goncalves and Suhadolnik caution, however, that additional
studies of much larger patient populations are required before
the clinical utility of the test can be demonstrated. This study
was funded by the National Institutes of Health and The CFIDS
Association of America, the nation's largest and most active
charitable organization dedicated to conquering CF(ID)S. Further
study required the 14 people who are involved in this group,
diagnosed with M.E., actually represents 70% of the group. As
this 70% figure is extremely high this must warrant further
study to try to examine all possible causes of this anomalous
figure.

If any good is to come from the gathering of this potential data
linking the alien abduction scenario and "Myalgic
Encephalomyelitis" then of course it will be required that my
investigation is meticulous in the way in which I gather the
data. For the analysis of the data I will endeavour to employ
the help of professional people from various backgrounds of the
hallowed halls of academe which are applicable to the illness
and all possible variables. I have made a short list and will be
approaching these people directly. Although I am sure you are
now aware of my stance on the situation, if this hypothesis is
correct then it is imperative that I do the research and back up
what really is at the moment a thought, based on some cursory
information. If the data represents the connection then this
could well be a back door to Pandora's box. Of course the
opposite is also true that the data may reveal something
completely different although the data with regard to the
anomalous substantial increase in the percentage of the
population of earth who have "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis"
(Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) is 1 to 2%.

Against this 70% figure which has surfaced with regard to the
twenty abductees in the group that I have looked at, I feel that
a figure of 10,000 abductees globally would have to submit data
to gauge an accurate study as to whether there is without doubt
a connection between "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic
Fatigue Syndrome)and alien abduction.

I am asking for the assistance of abductee support groups, if
you are reading this, to contact myself directly. What this
possible connection is could be a number of things. In the
interest of not jumping to conclusions, it could be that: 1. The
abduction scenario is a direct symptom and brain disorder and
part of the many parts of "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic
Fatigue Syndrome) and that all people who are claiming abduction
have this illness, but the symptoms in some abductees are minute
compared to others and that they do not know that they have the
illness. However if that were the case it would open up the
question of why does a large number of sufferers of "Myalgic
Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) claim to have been
abducted by Aliens such as in the initial test group. That alien
abduction is yet another symptom to this illness, a symptom
which can manifest itself in the human brain as a memory, this
in itself if true, would for me anyway, be quite an astounding
discovery that perhaps "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic
Fatigue Syndrome) is a direct result of the alleged alien
implants, which it has been claimed by a large number of
abductees to have been placed inside of their heads, and in some
way be causing the illness because of the implants interruption
by proximity to certain areas of the brain, causing the brain to
send out incorrect signals to the body and the cause-effect of
this is the human body receiving the incorrect information to
function normally causing the multi-faceted symptoms of "Myalgic
Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome). There is even a
hypothesis that these aliens are in some way feeding off the
human life force draining energy from the alleged victim of
these abductions, and the symptoms after these alleged
incidents, do bear a striking resemblance to the symptoms of
"Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome).

Or it could be that the abduction scenario is all in the mind of
the abductee and that "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic
Fatigue Syndrome) in the cases where abduction is also being
claimed, is a direct result of the depression being caused by
believing that they are being abducted by aliens. Perhaps the
alleged abductee's body chemistry is being altered and this, as
the discoverer called it, is a Unique Random Enzyme/Protein, and
is a further manipulation of the DNA structure of the human race
to make it more compatible for the long term hybrid program
which may be causing the side effects that manifest themselves
in the symptoms of CFS.

Maybe it is something all together different from the from above
with the data collated after the cursory investigation of the
twenty abductees who are members of the same group. However,
this has shown that in this group at the percentage of people
diagnosed with."Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic Fatigue
Syndrome) to be 68% above the national average. It has to
warrant further investigation.

I will be contacting relevant parties who can offer correct
medical and psychological comment on the data when I have
finished collating it. I believe that if the cursory evidence
gathered from this global investigation returns the same high
anomalous figure of or around 70 % this may well lead to the
opening or at least unlocking of Pandora's Box. The objective is
to supply undeniable data, and in the ideal world to force
enlisting the scientific community to investigate this further,
with an over all view to forcing the world governments to
acknowledge that we are being visited by E.B.E.'s and that the
abductions claimed by so many are in a large number of cases
what I personally believe to be true. I am in particular looking
at the new enzyme that is present in the bodies of all people
diagnosed with CFS and in the 1000 people tested who did not
have CFS the enzyme was not present. My research is progressing
slowly into what may well turn out to be a connection with the
identification of a new human enzyme and the alien abduction
scenario. Although I am only speculating at this time, I feel
that there is a distinct possibility that the enzyme will be
present in all abductees and that all abductees actually have
CFS or Fibro and that the symptoms are so minute in some
abductees that they do not realise that they have the illness.
Ultimately the end process would be to obtain testing of a group
of abductees who do not believe that they have CFS or Fibro, to
see if the enzyme is also present in the abductees which I
believe it may be as I feel that abductees body chemistry is
being altered and this, as the discoverer called it, a Unique
Random Enzyme / Protein, is a further manipulation of the DNA
structure of the human race to make it more compatible for the
long term hybrid program which may be causing the side effects
that manifest themselves in the symptoms of CFS.

Until the hard data has been collected and analyzed I can only
present this as a circumstantial case to Dr. Robert Suhadolnik
and his research team and others in the research field, as you
and I both know what a sticky wicket we are batting off to start
with in the research field of alien abduction.

I have kindly been given web space by Marilyn Ruben who runs the
AAER Abductions website, for a survey of abductees to gauge some
global figures on the number of people with CFS who also claim
alien abduction.

The URL is: http://www.abduct.com/aaer/_aaer.htm

I hope that upwards of 10,000 abductees will take the CFS survey
on the site during the next twelve months. We may see that the
huge increase in the percentage of abductees that have CFS is a
global pattern and returns the same high anomalous figure that
it has with my initial investigation, circa 68% above the global
national average per capita of 1-2% of the populous. "That I may
be right". Hold that thought.

Comments and assistance welcome

Max Burns





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   Mar > Mar 18

              Sighting Reports Australian 1999 UFO Outback Tour

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:00:11 +1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:10:58 -0500
Subject: Sighting Reports Australian 1999 UFO Outback Tour

The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail  tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian  Research Network Hot Line Number
                       1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************


Hi Everyone

Some sighting reports from The 1999 Australian UFO Outback Tour
and many more to come <smile>

________________________________________________________________


David Pike, Sighting Reports:
Occupation:  local Alice Springs tour guide.

Gammon Ranges Northern South Australia

Metal cylinder seen during the day traveled between the range of
hills good view of object 6 people witnessed event, and ca.78.

Alice Springs:  Heavitree gap

Seven red lights over Alice Springs police chased them on the
western road towards honeymoon gap, pike saw this object over
Heavitree gap. Ca.18 mouths ago 3 people witnessed the event.

Wallace Rock, Central Australia, James Range:

Pike witnessed a white "shooting star-like" object that bounced
up into the sky. He stated that it looked like a ricochet.

Thank you, David

UFO Photo dated 15 1st 1997

Quote:  Photo was taken looking from on site van at Wycliffe
Well camp site by a tourist. The photo looked has though a
lightning bolt had appeared then an object was revealed when the
photo was developed. This photo will be available on the net in
the next few days after being analysed. Thankyou to Lou Farkas
for the photo.

!4. 12th 1998 . CE3

12.30am to 1.45am North northwest almost overhead changing
lights on approach when recedes like rocket booster, cloud
colours same as moving object. Visitation silhouette large head
broad shoulders tapering, legs not viable observed me from
different angles and disappeared.  [Location unknown]

1st 12th. 1998

Time Approximately 8.00pm
Coloured lights changing colour southeast direction disappears
about 10.30pm [explanation possible star]

27th 1st 1999
Time Approximately 8.15pm
We both saw a light that would have taken a good 2 to 3 minutes
from where we where standing approx. 35cm across the sky this
traveled no pulsating light just a steady bright light direction
from south to north straight a cross and then vanished.

Regards Diane Harrison

Yes I'm Back and I had the best trip  Outback Australia is
buzzing with UFO info, stay tuned much more to come:










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   Mar > Mar 18

                The Australian Ufo Research Network - Public

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:28:07 +1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:27:11 -0500
Subject: The Australian Ufo Research Network - Public


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail  tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian  Research Network Hot Line Number
                       1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************


The Australian UFO Research Network will be holding its public
meeting on the 19th March 1999, Time: 7.30pm.

Topic: Our 16 day Australian UFO Red Center Outback Tour. We will be
discussing, the people we met along the way.

E.g. Helicopter Pilots, Coach drivers, Tour guides and what the
local outback aboriginals think about the UFO phenomenon and
what Alice Springs people have to say about the US facility
based at Alice.  UFO Sights witnessed first hand, some have been
captured on video, Min Min Lights.

Come listen & look then make up your own mind.

Meeting venue: Springwood Community Center, Corner of Cinderella
Drive & Venessa Blvd.

All money raised will go towards funding the UFO Free Call
Hotline

Contact Diane Harrison
Contact Number 07 38088567
Co Director The Australian UFO Research Network QLD
tkbnetw@fan.net.au









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   Mar > Mar 18

                Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:18:31 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:32:00 -0500
Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:32:16 -0400

>>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:26:58 -0500

>>>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>>>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:21:04 -0000

>>>>Well paid story tellers? The abductees? Better tell them.
>>>>They're still waiting for that first paycheck

>>>So these 'abductees' writing books and having books written
>>>about them are not being paid a penny?  Didn't Pamela
>>>Stonebrooke get paid $50,000 for her book.

>>Besides, even if Pamela really got that sum, it's not as much
>>money as it seems. Perhaps the advance was divided into three
>>pieces -- one-third given her before she writes, one-third after
>>she delivers the manuscript, and the remaining third when the
>>book is published. That would give her $16667 during the period
>>when she wrote her book. How long does it take to write a book,
>>Tim? Would $16667 buy that much time, at the normal pay-rates an
>>educated person expects? Would even the full $50,000 (if Pamela
>>got that much up front) pay for the time?

>>Many, if not most, people who write books end up subsidizing the
>>books themselves to some degree. Either they have to write in
>>what normally would be their spare time, or they live on less
>>money, while they're writing, than they'd make if they pursued
>>some other line of work. And many, if not most, books never earn
>>their authors one cent past the advance.

>>As for Tim's idea  that there aren't thousands of abductees, but
>>instead "just a bunch of well-paid story tellers and believers
>>telling you this"=85I do hope the volume he's been flacking here
>>is better researched than this ridiculous claim.

>Speaking from my own direct experience, the advance for "Crash
>at Corona" was all of $8000 (against Royalties of course). Half
>was paid up front and half upon delivery. This was split two
>ways after the 15% agent fee. I got all of a 10K advance for TOP
>SECRET/ MAJIC.. again half up front and minus 15%. Royalty
>statements, almost always late, are delivered at 6 month
>intervals, but 3 months after the end of the 6 months. Typically
>25-35% is held back for returns. Not a good way to feed a
>family. I must add that Betty and Barney Hill did get a % of
>John Fuller's royalties.

>I think Tim needs to get facts in hand before putting processor
>in gear.

Gentlemen,

As I already opined in some private e-mail, it does not seem
possible that one such as Tim cannot know these things.  In
point of fact, he most certainly must.  Either that, or he has
been overdoing Gripple. Ergo, the reason for this feast of
famine must be to create a controversy which surrounds his new
book.... you know, a discussion. Hey, you never know how many
books that'l sell, eh?

Well done Timothy!  You did what you must have set out to do,
eh?

Next time, my dear authors, may I suggest seeking the publishing
experience with the new Canal Street UFOlogical Publishing
Company? We pay in product!  For every book which sells more
than 100 copies, you get a lifetime supply of Original Gripple.
I cannot tell you how happy our dear Gesundt gets over the sale
of more than 1,000 books. But it has something to do with...
well, let's just say size doesn't matter nearly as much as
quantity, eh?  Heh, heh!

Canal Street UFOlogical Publishers, the consumated writing
experience. Our motto, "You can never sell a book by it's
cover!"

Dr. Hermione Frump, Editor and Charged






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   Mar > Mar 18

                     The Truth About The XF5U-1 Flapjack

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:40:17 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:35:01 -0500
Subject: The Truth About The XF5U-1 Flapjack


Hello, all

Mr. Matthews seems to be enamored of the XF5U-1. Also that we
had whole squadrons of Go-229 (Horten) flying wings zooming over
the snowy slopes of Mt.Ranier-in'47.

Well, the Flapjacks were certainly cutting edge,but wrong
edge,Propellers even those turned by gas turbines even the
abilty to hover was secondary to going fast and far.The steam
catapult, angled flight deck and far more relialble pure jets
(also the breaking of the sound barrier) finished Propeller
driven Naval Aircraft.Period ,no more,with the A-1 skyraider and
the F4U- drived AU-2 soldiering on.

Mr.Barrett Tillman is an execllent aircraft historian, his books
on Naval Aviation are at the top of the Historian's Craft.-With
no mention of any speculation of the XF5U-1 being other than a
one-off (actually there was a static test airframe) prototype.

Another source "U.S.Naval Fighters 1922 to 1980,s" by Lloyd S.
Jones (Aero Pub. 1977.) has a very consistant, accurate,(and a
great three -view of the XF5U-1) account of the whole
V-173/XF5U-1 saga-including the Protoype's Demise at Edwards in
a very public death by wreckingball,exactly 50 years ago to the
day March 17,1949.

Also contained in "Naval Fighters" is a history of all the
Protoypes of fighter aircraft used by the US Navy.Insightful.Why
fool around with nasty, unreilable turboprops such as the
Allison T-40 the only reasonably available big (ah ,notice I
didn't say reliable) Turboprop. by the time the XF5U-1 was at
Edwards, the  N. American F86/FJ-2 was already in  production,
along with the Grumman F9F Panthers and of course that
particularly nasty surprise-the MiG-15 in Korea. It' easy to see
why the XF5U had no merit because of the advances in Technology.







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   Mar > Mar 19

                    BBC: Best Site For Moonbase Revealed

From: Steven J. Dunn <SDunn@logicon.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:31:01 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:24:04 -0500
Subject: BBC: Best Site For Moonbase Revealed


Original Publication Date "1999/03/16 15:18:04"

By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse

The most detailed analysis ever of the Moon's mysterious polar
regions has pinpointed the place best suited for a future human
base.

The site is on the rim of a crater called Shackleton and meets
two essential requirements. There is plenty of sunlight around
to generate solar energy and it is very close to a
permanently-shaded region, where ice is likely to be stored in
deep freeze.

Ice would not only satisfy the thirst of settlers but could be
used to generate fuel for spacecraft.

Permanently-shaded patches sit in craters at the Moon's south
pole.  Ice was discovered at the Moon's north and south poles
just over a year ago by the Lunar Prospector spacecraft. It was
hailed as a major discovery and has transformed plans to
colonise the Moon.

>From its orbit, Lunar Prospector was able to detect ice in the
polar regions but not pinpoint the exact position of the frozen
water. Its orbit has been lowered in the past few weeks to
enable it to make more precise observations.

But the new information on the location of the ice has come from
data from a previous lunar mission - the highly successful
Clementine mission that observed the Moon for 71 days in 1994.

Clementine took images of the south pole every 10 hours for
about two lunar days. Dr Ben Bussey of the European Space Agency
used the data to produce maps showing the percentage of time
that a point on the surface is illuminated during a lunar day.

The maps reveal that no part of the south pole is in constant
sunlight but there are some areas that are almost in the
permanent glare of the Sun.

The rim of the Shackleton crater is a particularly interesting
place because it is illuminated more than 80% of the time.
Nearby there are two other places, only 10 km apart, which
collectively receive illumination more than 98% of the time.

Also not far away, down in the crater itself, are regions of
permanent shadow where ice could remain unmelted by the Sun.

This is the area to put the first Moonbase.
Electricity-producing solar arrays could be placed in the bright
areas and connected by a microwave or cable link. Then the
Shackleton crater site would receive near constant solar energy,
as well as having easy access to the lunar ice resources. The
Moon's north pole is a smoother place than the south pole, but
early estimates suggest that there could be up to 13,000 square
kilometres of permanent shade there.

Clementine was put into a polar orbit from where it provided the
first digital images of the Moon's poles. The earlier Apollo
missions were in an equatorial orbit to make it easier to get
the astronauts back to Earth in an emergency.

The Moon's axis of rotation, unlike the Earth's, is not markedly
tilted compared to its orbit around the Sun. This means that the
Moon does not have strongly different seasons and that the Sun
never rises very far up in the polar skies.

If you stood at the lunar poles for a whole year the Sun would
only move up or down about 1.5 degrees.  This means that low
places close to the pole, such as the floors of craters, may
never see the Sun at all.

Scientists believe that any regions of permanent shadow are
prime candidates for the location of ice deposits. They would
act as cold traps for water molecules deposited billions of
years ago by impacting comets. A sizeable amount of ice may have
built up over the four billion year history of the Moon.

This latest analysis of the lunar poles has highlighted their
importance. Astronomers are now eagerly awaiting the new results
from the Lunar Prospector spacecraft.





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   Mar > Mar 19

                   Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed

From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:50:52 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:33:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed


>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:12:19 -0000

>>From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:06:29 EST
>>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed

>>Something that I find very alarming is the fact that as press
>>officer. for Bufora Dr David Clark, has not Once attempted to
>>stifle the very critical remark's and comments made of Bufora,
>>by his collaboratorand friend from way back in university days
>>Andy Roberts.

>>If he feels at all comprimised by his choices available, I offer
>>that Dr David Clark offer his resignation as press officer for
>>Bufora.

>>In light of his inability to uphold the right of free speech, in
>>view of his personal choices that he has displayed which is a
>>clear conflict of interests.

>I  feel in light of the actions that have been raised, concerning
>Max Burns investigation into the "Sheffield Incident", that it
>would be the right thing to do for Mr Clarke to resign his
>position forthwith as the BUFORA Press Officer.

>This is an outrageous situation for such an organisation. Why
>has BUFORA allowed this kind of thing to carry on without any
>action being taken from the board of BUFORA?

>Dr Clarke (Amongst others) has quite obviously shown a personal
>interest in damning anything that Max has had to say concerning
>the above case (I wonder who exactly is giving Malcolm Robinson
>grief at this moment on allowing Max to present his case!), I
>just wonder if the head people at BUFORA are in fact happy with
>the conduct of their Press Officer. If you feel strongly on this
>point I suggest you contact BUFORA with your views.

>Free speech for UK ufologists? We can but dream..................


As readers of Magonia and this list will know, I have very
little time for BUFORA, which I consider an ineffectual and
over-centralised bureacracy whose primary aim is to provide nice
titles for its inner circle of management suits.

However, they are not in overall control of British ufology,
most of which manages perfectly well without them. So if BUFORA
decides that it does or doesn't want a particular speaker at any
of its meetings, it is *not* a free-speech issue. Burns has
plenty of other platforms to propound his views about the
so-called Sheffield Incident and I see no reason why he should
expect BUFORA to give him a free run at a lecture.

However, it now appears that the new lecture secretary at BUFORA
_does_ want to give him a chance to address a BUFORA audience,
so what's yer problem, Jimmy? (as they say in the part of the
world where the lecture secretary comes from).

Burns's committment to free speech, curiously, does not seem to
prevent him from demanding that David Clarke shuts Andy Roberts
up when the latter expresses views critical of BUFORA. Nor does
Roy Hale's dislike of "giving people grief" prevent him from
starting a write-in campaign to have David Clarke removed as
BUFORA's press officer!

As BUFORA's internal democracy is about on a level with that of
North Korea, I'm sure that they'll do what they like without
taking any notice of what anybody so irrelevant as their members
might say!

--
John Rimmer
www.magonia.demon.co.uk
Abandon hope all ye who press Enter here





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   Mar > Mar 19

                             Re: 'UFO Awareness'

From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:08:03 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:34:57 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Awareness'


>From: Jeremy Anderson <Jerry@uforesearch.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UFO Awareness
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:12:30 -0000

>Dear colleges,

>In order to promote co-operation between UFO research groups
>both nationally and internationally, and also to 'educate' the
>general public as to the role such groups, we propose the
>following:

>We intend to target locations such as libraries,

Oh dear, aren't we poor librarians to get any rest?

>community
>centres, schools etc., in order to get the message across.

Apart from the fact that these so-called education projects are
always abysmal flops (whether organised by national governments
or hole-in-the- corner UFO groups), do we _really_ need higher
public awareness of UFOs and UFO groups? Don't we rather need to
educate _ourselves_ more in basic science and investigation
techniques so we can avoid some of the barmier extremes of our
beloved topic, before we start bothering the public with
badly-produced posters on public library notice-boards next to
the adverts for the local flower-show and the Satanic-abuse
survivors' help-line?

--
John Rimmer
www.magonia.demon.co.uk
Abandon hope all ye who press Enter here





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 19

                       Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:32:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:39:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets


Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:00 GMT
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
From: Joachim Koch <achimkoch@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 02:45:39 +0800
>To: <AchimKoch@compuserve.com>
>From: C D Conrad <chyren23@q-net.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

>>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:00
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Joachim Koch <achimkoch@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: Betty Hill's Map of Planets

>>Hello List!

>>I would like to tell you that, in the light of recent interest
>>regarding our "New discoveries in Betty Hill's 'Star Map' ", I
>>have reorganized and relocated the webpages so that those of you
>>who are interested in this matter have easier and faster access.

>>The URL for "New Discoveries in Betty Hill's 'Star Map' " is:

>>http://www.ufos.de/               (best viewed with IE 4.0)

>>Then click in the navigation bar to the left under 'Archive' on
>>"Themen", then on 'A', then on 'Abduktionen', then follow the
>>links to "New Discoveries in Betty Hill's 'Star Map' ". Enjoy
>>and take some time.


>Dear Joachim,

>Love your work, but this URL gave a 404 Not Found Error.

>Work of this importance, I humbly suggest, should be archived
>at ONE URL >and maintained there forever-after, to minimise
>confusion of people searching for it in the UFOMIND archives,
>AND ELSEWHERE using their search function. It should NOT be
>changed at all if it's impact on the research community is to
>be maximised.

>You've changed it three times so far! I tried to find it some
>weeks back for a research paper and it was gone! You had moved
>the document. Most frustrating! Now it's changed again, and I
>have to update my bookmarks!
>Don't keep changing it, please! I mean this with the greatest
>amount of humor in my tone, please don't misunderstand.

>I understand the problems with web-hosting and so on, but
>work of this obvious impact should be maintained at one site.
>'Frames' as an internet-page navigation-device are _overrated_
>when it comes to mainly text documents, such as this one, in my
>humble opinion; and I am webmaster of several sites, one of which
>is a high-visit commercial site.

>Sorry to be critical, but I really think your work is of the
>highest importance and should reach more people.

>Once again, congratulations on your work viz the Hill case,
>it is undoubtedly of huge impact to the UFO-research community,
>and, indeed, history. I mean that absolutely sincerely.
>Keep up the good work!

>Yours,

>Cheyne D Conrad
>Perth, Western Australia

Dear Cheyne and List,

I am sorry if I caused some inconvenience to you by relocating
the Hill's pages. Originally, the web version was done by Doug
Girling in 1995 at times when I had neither web access nor the
relevant computer equipment. I had sent the files via email to
him and he created the web pages and located them to his
provider's hard disk.

Now everything has changed and I am in the position to be a web
master for myself but Doug had moved and I couldn't find him and
the web pages seemed to be lost.

Well, this all is past and after I have managed all the
difficulties with my own provider, frames etc., the valid URL is
from now on:

http://www.ufos.de/themen/Abdukt/BBHill/hill.htm

If you have any problems, please let me know.

Thank you for your patience!

Joachim Koch







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   Mar > Mar 19

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:33:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:23:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:51:14 -0000


>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:14:22 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:50:09 -0500
>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<snip>

>>Please tell us where the "Horten flying wing" is in all this?

>Possibly of great significance because these aircraft were being
>tested in the USA at the time and certainly in the North West.

>Speaking of the North West that's where Paul Trent saw his disc.

>Despite the fact that Royce Myers states that Trent believed
>he'd seen a MMUFO you still cannot accept this possibility
>despite the FACT that these designs were on the drawing board in
>the 1930s -although at that time they were seriously
>underpowered.

>It has been established through my research that the US Navy
>was conducting expts on this type of aircraft in 1947/8 and this
>is admitted in a memo latter written by Col RD Wentworth
>(Acting Chief of Intelligence) and working on Project Sign.>

>Yes they did have enough money to do all this, as Barrett
>Tillman has made clear in several books on Navy a/c.>

>AIR 100-203-79 also states that the XF5U1 had been "operational
>in recent years" and Thomas C Smith who worked for Chance-Vought
>with a TS clearance designed parts of a jet-powered disc from
>1946 onwards.

"Operational"? Yeah, if worked.... barely!
And how many were there?  Nine? Or _one_!

>In relation to the jet-powered disc an article in a 1948 edition
>of Aeroplane magazine by AS Weyl stated categorically that gas
>turbines had been fitted to the XF5U1 (a simple thing to have
>done, by removing some of the metalite paneling) and that the
>new a/c had the potential to hover and travel up to 600mph.>

>Of course we never hear about this in Ufology.....

No, but we do hear about 1,700 mph. Perhaps if an XF5U1 at 600
mph launched another XF5U1 at 600 mph (relative) and that
launched yet anothter at 500 mph the third XFU1 would reach the
speed reported by Arnold for 'nine disc-shaped' (or however you
want to describe them) objects.

I don't but the secret US project theory (nor the Russian
version).

But I _have_ to admit that when General Vandenburg "shot down"
the ET Estimate in late Sept. or early Oct 1948,  it may have
been because he was covering up the 'most awesome weapon
developed after the war' - the Flying Disc, which was capable of
flying circles around any other aircraft and which we very
prudently kept 'Super Top Secret' to the point they have _never_
been used. (keeping them in reserve for the battle at
Armageddon, no doubt)


>These revelations do not answer all the sightings - but it's
>interesting to note how they are totally ignored by ET
>proponents. Even Wendy Connors admits in a recent IUR article
>that there was a large hangar at Wright-Patt closed off to even
>fairly high-ranking personnel including those tasked with
>so-called 'flying saucer ' investigations!

>Wonder why?

>Wouldn't have anything to do with those 'saucer' models they had
>in 1947 would it??


Alfred Loedding made the models!  He was apparently a prime
instigator of Project Sign. Incidently, there are lots of off
limits areas to people who have no need to know in order to do
their jobs......

And while we're quoting, let's not forget J. Edgar Hoover's
request for a statement from the Air Force that there was no
secret project with the result that the Air FOrce checked its
own research and development directorate (General LeMay) and
found none. Of course, they could have lied to Hoover!






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   Mar > Mar 19

                   Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed

From: Rory Lushman <rory.l@zen.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:47:47 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:23:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed


>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:12:19 -0000


>This is an outrageous situation for such an organisation.
>Why has BUFORA allowed this kind of thing to carry on
>without any action being taken from the board of BUFORA?

So what if Dave did pass a phone number on, what is his crime.
Maybe Max should not have put himself in that position. No one
likes paying the Poll Tax but running away will not resolve the
problem.

Actually Dave did Max a favour, the charges were dropped. Maybe
Max owes him a pint.

>Free speech for UK ufologists? We can but dream...........

Free speech can be practised by both sides of the debate.
However is free speech letting people introduce cases to the
public without producing a shred of evidence. Let Max speak at
BUFORA, let him make a fool of himself. Will he be answering
questions at the end of his talk?

Which ever side of the fence you stand on in the great
ufological circus, you owe the subject definitive research that
can be checked. You owe the public a true account of what has
gone on, even if it has a mundane explanation. Poor researched
alien tales and crashed pilots may sell magazines to the public
who trust us to tell them the truth. We do the research on their
behalf and to just feed them poorly researched cases must be a
poor state of affairs.

Producing magazines that recount this over-hyped case by Max can
only be misguiding the public.

One side can debate they believe in aliens, whilst the other can
say they do not. A belief does not prove anything either way.

Let's look at both sides of Max's case without regurgitating
the monotony for List readers. It is very simple for all to see.

Max has introduced his side of the case, yet he offers no
evidence, no real witnesses and bucket loads of highly dubious
conjecture.

Dave Clarke, has answered every single point that Max has to
offer. He has gone out and interviewed witnesses. From start to
finish in this case, Dave has methodically eaten away at the
case and proved this was no ET display.

If Dave was to say he didn't believe Max's case and not bring
any supporting material to the table, he would be as guilty but
this is not the case.

There is not an even balance of research here. Dave's research
should be used as a fine example of how we progress with a case.
Max's case is based on speculation backed up by no one. We hear
these people claim how poorly Max has been treated but where are
they when he wants support for his case. Stand up and be counted
and tell us why we are wrong.

If we let anyone introduce a case into ufology that lacks any
real research but just opinions then we are not fit to do that
research and that applies to both camps.

Its not a conspiracy to silence Max, more an effort to get him
to produce some actual facts that can be checked. If he comes up
with these facts, I'm sure Dave and Andy would be the first to
apologise but I am confident this will not happen.

Whilst Max is obviously disgruntled, Andy and Dave, along with
the rest of "us" are...gruntled.

Rory Lushman.





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 19

                      Re: The '99 Southport Conference

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:26:05 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:28:35 -0500
Subject: Re: The '99 Southport Conference


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: The '99 Southport Conference
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 99 12:59:42 PST

>Even if we know nothing else, however, we poor unenlightened
>Yanks know how to spell colleagues' last names correctly.
>Please note how the last name -- which has seen print, by the
>way, some zillions of times since the 1960s -- is here rendered:

>Jerome Clark*

Dear Jerome

I humbly apologise for mis-spelling your name. Please forgive me
I won't do it again.

--

    In an infinite universe infinitely anything is possible.
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
            UFO page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/





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   Mar > Mar 19

                        Re: Mysterious Valley Report?

From: Dan Syes <dsyes@micron.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:37:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:30:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Mysterious Valley Report?


>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:35:49 -0500
>Subject: Mysterious Valley Report?
>From: Bobby Dickey <listman2@juno.com>

>I heard something on CNN a couple of weeks ago about a web site
>called the Mysterious Valley Report. I cant find it. Anybody
>know where it is??



Link to Chris O'Brian's Mysterious Valley web page.....
Also enclosed is his email address.

Dan

http://home.amigo.net/tmv/
tmv@amigo.net






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   Mar > Mar 19

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:11:36 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:38:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:51:14 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:59:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:14:22 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>>Bruce Maccabee has never said there were anything like there
>>were "tremendous problems" with the sighting.  He has said
>>Arnold probably got his estimate of object altitude wrong and
>>may have overestimated the width to thickness ratio. But that's
>>about it.  These are actually minor points that have no bearing
>>on more important aspects of Arnold's sighting, such as his
>>calculations of supersonic speed.

>That's certainly wrong because in an extended email exchange
>with Bill Rose he did say that there were problems.

Now it's just "problems."  Initially you claimed Maccabee said
there were "tremendous problems" with the Arnold sighting.
Unless you can be specific about what the problems were,
tremendous or otherwise, it's impossible to comment on whether
they were significant or not.

Bruce Maccabee has publicly written that Arnold almost certainly
got his estimate of object altitude wrong by placing them on
true horizon, the same altitude as his plane, rather than
perceived horizon, which was about 2 degrees below the true
horizon at the level of the Cascade mountain ridges where Arnold
said they were flying.

What does this have to do with the most important feature of his
sighting, namely his calculation of supersonic speed using his
plane clock and two prominent volcanoes as landmarks?  Nothing,
that's what.

Arnold _probably_ also overestimated the width to thickness
ration, placing it at 20 to 1.  Maccabee thinks it was probably
closer to 10 to 1, similar to the way he actually drew it in his
letter to air intelligence.  This again has no bearing on his
calculation of speed.  It does, however, have some bearing on
how big the objects may have been and how much detail in their
shape Arnold may have been able to resolve.  The arguments are
lengthy.  I'm not about to get into them here.

Along similar lines, the distance to the also visible DC-4 which
Arnold used to gauge object size was just an estimate and has an
effect on object size, but not calculated object speed.

Much nonsense  has been written about the Arnold sighting,
including from people who should have known better.  E.g., based
on his apparent ignorance of measures of human visual acuity,
Dr. Alan Hynek put out a highly fallacious argument that Arnold
grossly overestimated the distance to the objects, and therefore
they were conventional objects flying at close range and at
conventional subsonic speeds.  Hynek never seemed to realize he
was in error and continued to use the same fallacious argument
in later life when he was forcefully arguing for the physical
reality of UFOs.  (See e.g. his 1977 book "The Hynek UFO
Report.")

And then there are numerous books on UFOs, pro and con, when in
describing the Arnold sighting claim he actually said he saw
crescent-shaped objects, not saucers, and it was the media that
created the description of saucer-like or disc-like objects.
Again that is simply dead wrong.  Arnold was using the terms
saucer and disc to describe shape from the very beginning, as
his first drawing and the various quotes unequivocably _prove_.
The description of the singular crescent-shaped object emerged
later, well-after Arnold's initial comparisons to thin, flat
saucers and discs and pie plates.

>>It was the media who decided to give birth to the terms 'flying
>>saucers' - and not really Kenneth Arnold who was attempting to
>>describe the motion of the objects he saw..........

>Pure unadulterated rubbish, and boy is it time to get rid of
>that hoary old myth.  In fairness to Tim Matthews, the same
>erroneous statement appears in many "saucer" books and from
>people who should know better.

>Kenneth Arnold very definitely used terms like "saucer" and
>"disc" to describe the _shape_, not the motion of what he saw.
>Here are some of the contemporaneous quotes from Arnold:

<snip various Arnold descriptions>

>My God, all these different statements attributed to KA?

Yes, your point?

>Did he say all of these, some of them or did the media get it wrong?

The descriptions were self-consistent, if you read them.  The
newspapers put most of them in quotes.  And if there was any
doubt, there is Arnold's drawing submitted to air intelligence
three weeks later, which is also completely consistent with the
quoted verbal descriptions.  He also used the term "saucer-like"
several times in that letter.  And there is the surviving
recorded interview with Arnold the day after his sighting, which
you can download off the Net if you like.  None of this was
filtered through any reporter or editor who may have misquoted
him.

All the descriptions of _shape_ attributed to him in the
newspaper quotes are self-consistent.  It is unlikely he was
misquoted.  He said he saw objects like saucers.

>He did use the term flying saucers

Not exactly.  He did use terms like saucers and disks.  This got
popularized into "flying saucers" and "flying disks," which he
didn't use.  In this sense, one could argue that the media
created the term "flying saucer."  But this is a truly minor
point. Arnold clearly described the basic saucer shape right
from the beginning.  The media did not create it.

>and most interestingly when
>he drew a picture of these in 1977 on the 30th anniversary of
>the sighting he drew something closely resembling the 1938
>Horten parabola!

Boy, you just don't get  it, do you?  Every one of his
descriptions immediately following his sighting were of
saucer-like objects:  rounded, thin, and flat.  The only
deviation from a fully circular saucer shape was the chopped
trailing edge that Arnold thought came to a slight point.

Arnold wrote an article in the Spring of 1948 for the first
issue of FATE magazine ["The Truth About the Flying Saucers"].
The cover showed an artist's rendition of Arnold's chopped
saucers, with no flying wings in sight.

After his initial saucer-like descriptions, he later publicly
added that the lead object was actually different from the rest
and was more crescent shaped, or if you prefer, similar to the
Horten parabola.  That's apparently what he drew in 1977, rather
than the eight more saucer-like objects.  This has nothing to do
with what he told the newspapers immediately after his sighting.

>No doubt Dave thinks that ET flies in aircraft adhering to the
>principles of aerodynamics and reduced drag!!

What the hell is that supposed to mean?  In one breath (e.g. see
below), Tim Matthews argues that various saucer sightings, such
as the Trents in 1950, were our own experimental saucers.  Then
in another breath he's arguing that they weren't aerodynamically
viable for ET.

Try a consistent line of argument, please.

>The picture Arnold drew of the objects looked something like
>(and please excuse the difficulty of trying to draw rounded
>shapes using only text -- use nonproportional font like Courier
>to view properly):

>               ____
>            (        *
>            )          \
>           (            )         -==========-
>            )          /
>            (  ____  *
>
>              Profile                 Edge-on
>

>Nice picture and bery Horten/Northrop looking.

Hardly, those were flying wings, remember?  Avro did _propose_
similar looking giant airliners about 5 years later in Aviation
Week, none of which ever got built.  But what's this got to do
with what Arnold saw in 1947?  Are you telling us that
Horten/Northrup had a fleet of these craft back then flying at
supersonic speed in carefully controlled, weaving serial
formation while dangerously skimming mountain tops?

Have you ever instead considered, Tim, that these later
saucer-like aircraft proposals, such as Avro's or Project
Silverbird, were inspired by the unexplained saucer sightings
and not the other way around?

Try reading Paul Hill's book, e.g.  His NACA experiments in
hovercraft dynamics followed immediately after his own UFO
sighting in 1952.  It wasn't the other way around.  Hill's work
was the inspiration for the later Avro "saucers." Hill was an
aeronautical research scientist of high-repute who lived and
breathed experimental aircraft, but the objects Hill saw were
well beyond human aircraft in their performance perameters.
Hill then knew in his guts that these weren't made by humans.

>Edge-on mystery solved? Low Aspect ratio airfoil???

Only humans could think of this?

>>Compare to some of Arnold's verbal descriptions: "half-moon
>>shaped, oval in front and convex in the rear" like "a big flat
>>disk."  Or,  "They looked something like a pie plate that was
>>cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in the rear.  Or,
>>"flat like a pie-pan and somewhat bat-shaped."

>>Please tell us where the "Horten flying wing" is in all this?

>Possibly of great significance because these aircraft were being
>tested in the USA at the time and certainly in the North West.

Nine of them?  Flying at supersonic speed?  Weaving together in
a chain like "the tail of a kite?"  Skimming mountain tops?

At the time of Arnold's sighting, the prototype propeller driven
flying wings (I  think there was only two of them) were grounded
with mechanical problems. These craft were not secret at the
time of Arnold's sighting.  In fact you see pictures of them  in
the newspapers about 2 weeks after Arnold's sighting with
speculation that maybe they were the source of the saucer
sightings.  Gee, this was 50 years before Tim Matthews claims he
invented the idea.

The two prototype jet-powered flying wings were tested at Muroc
(Edwards) AFB beginning in 1948, not 1947.  Do you have any
evidence that they were ever tested in the Pacific northwest?
How about in June 1947?

The maiden flight of the first jet prototype from Northrup to
Edwards was in October 1947, and was hardly a secret.  Again you
see pictures of this flight in the newspapers.  The Los Angeles
Times had a full-page one.  One of the two prototypes crashed
early on, killing the pilot Cpt. Glenn Edwards, hence Edwards
AFB.

The surviving jet-powered prototype was never supersonic and was
never tested in the Pacific northwest, though it did make a
cross-country flight to Washington DC and back in early 1949.

What does any of this have to do with what Kenneth Arnold saw in
June 1947?

>Speaking of the North West that's where Paul Trent saw his disc.

Yes?

> Despite the fact that Royce Myers states that Trent believed
>he'd seen a MMUFO you still cannot accept this possibility

What Trent believed he saw has nothing to do with what it might
have been. Trent wasn't an aviation expert.  He was an
unsophisticated farmer.

The Trent's descriptions (plus the photos of course) of a silent
craft at fairly close range do not jibe with any sort of
jet-powered aircraft, which would have made a very noticeable
racket.  The profile of the object in the Trent photos is also
nothing like the "flying flapjack."  But we seem to have some
sort of weird reasoning going on.  We had been experimenting
with circular wing aircraft.  Trent's photos show a circular
craft.  Ergo, they must be the same.

>If somebody was test-flying discs
>despite the FACT that these designs were on the drawing board in
>the 1930s -although at that time they were seriously underpowered.

More handwaving, no evidence of any connection with either
Arnold or Trent.

>It has been established through my research that the US Navy
>was conducting expts on this type of aircraft in 1947/8 and this
>is admitted in a memo latter written by Col RD Wentworth
>(Acting Chief of Intelligence) and working on Project Sign.

Wind tunnel experiments?  Taxiing on runway experiments?  Design
tweaking experiments?  Takeoff and landing experiments?  What
"experiments" are you referring to?

That fact that they were testing the flying flapjack and trying
to make it into a viable aircraft back in 1947 and 1948 is
hardly news nor was it secret. This is well-trod territory that
dates clear back to 1947 with the news stories of the flapjack
that followed immediately in the wake of Arnold's sighting.  I
even have a few photos from 1947 newspapers of the earlier
1930's circular wing aircraft.  All sorts of explanations were
publicly trotted out.

See, old stuff, not invented by Tim Matthews.  As I wrote you in
an e-mail, Charles McGrew wrote a detailed history on the
flapjack back in 1992.  Vesco mentioned it in his book back in
1968.  I just noticed a post by GT McCoy citing books by
aviation historians on the subject, including the interesting
footnote that today marks the 50th anniversary of when the
flapjack met its maker via a wrecking ball.

Various other people in the UFO field have looked at the
flapjack angle well before Tim Matthews.  But nobody gives it
much credance as an explanation for saucer sightings in part
because there has never been any evidence that it was ever
perfected.

>Yes they did have enough money to do all this, as Barrett
>Tillman has made clear in several books on Navy a/c.

They had enough money to do experiments.  What does that
establish other than at some time they had some money?  How long
did they have the money?  How much money were they given? Did
they ever get the thing to fly properly?  Did they have money to
build fleets of them to explain sightings all over the world?

Can you establish a clear evidential link to Arnold, Trent, or
anybody else, or are we going to be treated to nothing but
handwaving arguments?

>AIR 100-203-79 also states that the XF5U1 had been "operational
>in recent years" and Thomas C Smith who worked for Chance-Vought
>with a TS clearance designed parts of a jet-powered disc from
>1946 onwards.

He "designed."  Was it ever built?  Did it ever fly?  Where?
When?  How fast? In short, where's the beef?

>In relation to the jet-powered disc an article in a 1948 edition
>of Aeroplane magazine by AS Weyl stated categorically that gas
>turbines HAD BEEN FITTED to the XF5U1 (a simple thing to have
>done, by removing some of the metalite paneling) and that the
>new a/c had the potential to hover and travel up to 600mph.

They "had been fitted."  It had the "potential" to hover and
travel 600 mph. Well that was the claim.  But did it ever fly?
Facts, sir, not speculation and handwaving.

>Of course we never hear about this in Ufology.....

More garbage.  On the contrary, just like the flying wing, there
was speculation about the "flying pancake" and the saucer
sightings clear back in early July 1947 in most of the nation's
newspapers, complete with photos of the propeller prototype.
Look at about any newspaper on July 6, and there it is, again 50
years before Tim Matthews claims he invented the idea.

In April 1950, the flying pancake explanation for the saucers
again briefly emerged in the nation's press.  Tim Matthews did
not invent it.

Renato Vesco wrote a book about the saucers supposedly being
captured Nazi technology clear back in 1968.  I have his English
pocketbook version, "Intercept UFO -- The True Story of the
Flying Saucers!" copyright 1974.  A new version, titled Man-Made
UFOs 1944-1994 cowritten with David Childress came out in 1995.
In addition to "Nazi UFOs," Vesco also brings up the subjects of
the flying wing and flying flapjack, 30 years before Tim
Matthews or Tim X or whomever appeared on the scene and started
trumpeting this as his own.

>These revelations do not answer all the sightings - but it's
>interesting to note how they are totally ignored by ET proponents.

The usual Tim Matthews gratuitous insults of "ET proponents" and
the sweeping generalizations with nothing to back them up.  No,
these theories weren't ignored.  There is just nothing of
substance to back them up.  And I haven't seen Tim Matthews add
any substance either.  It all seems to be a rehash of stuff that
has long been known.

Interestingly Vesco is also liberal in his disparagement of
Ufologists and their so-called gullible belief in the ET
hypothesis.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if Matthews' book is
just a warmed-over version of Vesco's published many years
before.  Matthews' arguments seem to be a virtual carbon copy.

>Even Wendy Connors admits in a recent IUR article
>that there was a large hangar at Wright-Patt closed off to even
>fairly high-ranking personnel including those tasked with
>so-called 'flying saucer ' investigations!

>Wonder why?

More innuendo and handwaving, no facts.  For all we know the
hangar could have contained anything from alien crashed saucers
to crashed MIGs to secret but otherwise conventional aircraft
under development.  Something called compartmentalization would
deny access to anybody without a need to know, even if they had
high level clearance for other material.

>Wouldn't have anything to do with those 'saucer' models they had
>in 1947 would it??

So would it?  The saucer models Wright Patterson began testing
in wind tunnels in October 1947 were based on descriptions
furnished by saucer sighting witnesses, particularly pilots,
Kenneth Arnold being among them.  (Photos may also have been
used, such as those taken by Rhodes over Phoenix on July 7, the
negatives of which were taken by air intelligence.)

Now why would they bother to build and test models based on
sightings of their own aircraft?  Answer me that.







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   Mar > Mar 19

                 County Sheriff: "UFO Sightings Are No Joke"

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:48:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:42:42 -0500
Subject: County Sheriff: "UFO Sightings Are No Joke"


County Sheriff: UFO Sightings are No Joke
The Fremont [Ohio] Messenger - March 18, 1999

By Patrick Orr
Staff Writer

UFO sightings like those reported last week in Sandusky County
aren't a laughing matter for the Sandusky County Sheriff's
Office.

The Sheriff himself has been there.

Sheriff David Gangwer said Wednesday that the reports of strange
lights in the sky reminded him of a similar UFO sighting in the
late 1960s when he was a member of the Fremont Police
Department.

"It was reported out by (Ohio) 412 by the Old Rainbow's, and
there were police departments from all over checking it out,"
said Gawer, who saw the UFO through a telescope.

"It looked like a disc-type of deal. It was kind of hovering and
then it started bouncing around, the she kind of went up on an
edge and Wham! she was gone," he said. "I mean, it was kind of
hard to see, and we were looking through a telescope, but we saw
something. We took a lot of guff about it, but I know a lot of
other people saw it that night, too."

The experience never prompted the sheriff to develop an official
policy requiring deputies to report possible UFO sightings to a
higher government office, but a deputy can report it to an
expert if more information is wanted, said Gangwer.

When the sheriff's office received reports of a possible UFO
sighting by Ohio 101 March 12, Sgt. Mark McQuire called the UFO
Sightings Center in Seattle.

Gangwer said this was the correct thing for a deputy to do.

"It is an informal thing. We have a variety of numbers in the
Rolodex, and if he wants to call, fine," said Gangwer.
"Sometimes by reporting stuff like this we can find out whether
it was just a jet flying over or something."

"If it leads to something, fine. If it doesn't, then it
doesn't."

McGuire said when he received the call for the sighting from
Clyde resident Jammie Kwiatowski on March 12, he decided to call
the Sighting Center as an afterthought.

"I was sitting here at the radio desk when the call came in that
there was a UFO in the area of 101 and (County Road) 260," said
McGuire. "After I hung up, I started to wonder if there was a
number in the Rolodex to call, so I got the number and called
them up.

"They asked me if I could verify it, and I couldn't, probably
because they must get a lot of crank calls. Then they called me
back later and said, 'Mike, this is serious because the same
thing was spotted in Lamont, Ill., about 10 minutes ago.'"

"I just thought it was the logical thing to do for a UFO
sighting reported to our office."

Other local reports of sightings followed.

<End of article>

COMMENT:

Beginning on March 11, several UFO sightings were reported in
Sandusky County, Ohio. On March 14, a deputy who was responding
to a citizen complaint of "humming, cigar-shaped UFOs" to the
Sheriff's Department also observed 'clustered lights' which, in
his report, he stressed could not be identified.

Details of these reports can be found at:
        http://home.fuse.net/ufo/Fremont99.htm

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/






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   Mar > Mar 19

                 Re: On 'Flying Triangle over Cardigan Bay'

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:53:53 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:19:44 -0500
Subject: Re: On 'Flying Triangle over Cardigan Bay'


>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:42:02 +0100 (MET)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
>Subject: Re: On 'Flying Triangle over Cardigan Bay'

>Dear Mike,

>Thanks a million for this post. Finally a piece of solid
>research on the enigma of the flying triangle. Well written and
>very informative. However, if this line of research resembles
>the facts, I'm still wrestling with the question what these
>triangles were doing over America's allies such as Belgium and
>Brazil. If indeed those were of the same type.


Hi Henny,

The only thing I could suggest is that possibly they are flying
the Triangles over Belgium and Brazil, for that very reason...
"they are our alies."

There would be less likelihood of anyone taking a shot at them
over friendly countries and still accomplish the desired result,
of having large numbers of peoples see the device and report it.

Just a thought.






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   Mar > Mar 19

             New Jersey Sighting & Mysterious Research Engineers

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:15:45 GMT
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:23:01 -0500
Subject: New Jersey Sighting & Mysterious Research Engineers


Source: EBE Online,

http://ebe.allwebco.com/Experiences/NewJersey.shtml

Published March 4, 1999.

Stig

***

New Jersey, USA

Jodie, e-mail:

jsmith@early.com

Long Valley, New Jersey, USA

10:20 pm, August 21, 1982

First let me say that my husband & I are college-educated,
professional people, both working for, (what was then) Bell
Laboratories. We were sober,and quite alert - we had our 2 yr.
old daughter wth us, coming home from visiting friends. The
whole occurrence so astounded us, we called the army, navy, air
force, police & UFO Research facility in Illinois. We called the
friends we had visited, we drew pictures of what we saw
immediately upon entering our home. My husband thinks that what
we encountered was possibly new, secret technology. After
speaking with a number of research scientists & engineers at Ma
Bell, I tend to agree with them: we haven't yet cultivated or
harnessed enough energy/magnetic power...

But I jump ahead...My husband & I were travelling north on Rte.
206, heading home. It was a clear, starry August sky & I noticed
a particularly bright, large, "star" in the sky straight ahead.
I pointed it out to him (he was driving). As I did, I noticed it
was moving due west. It was an odd, yellowish color & stood out
as being different from the stars & planets. We chalked it up as
being an airplane - but I couldn't stop checking it out. At the
light in Chester, we turned left, heading west to our town, Long
Valley, on Rte. 24. I lost sight of it with the trees. But as we
approached the edge of the valley, there is a long hill going
down into it. At this point, I saw it again, still out with the
stars but bigger and moving faster, it seemed to go the speed of
the car. As we reached the crest of the hill, it came TOWARDS
us. The light got bigger & bigger, so big that my husband
thought we were about to get hit, head-on. He swerved off to the
side of the road. At this point, "the light" seemed to slow
down, and we could see that it was tilting up above us and that
it was actually 2 large circular lights - side-by-side. We
jumped out of the car (curiously no one else was driving on the
road, but with my 2 yr. old in the car seat, I didn't want to
leave the car). My husband proceeded to walk (backwards)from the
car down the middle of the road, staring up at this HUGE
aircraft directly above us. It had a smooth, white surface, with
blue, green & red rectangular lights along the perimeter of its
underside. The lights dimmed as it hovered overhead. It was
shaped like a stingray, with wide, rounded wings and a bobbed
backend. It seemed as comfortable in the sky as a fish in water,
like it was swimming(??)The "nose" (where the two big lights
were) wasn't white, but appeared to be glass. It was moving no
faster than he was walking, so it "hovered" just above him. We
were in awe - but spoke to each other the whole time. We
discussed its parameters, using the aforementioned descriptions
so we'd agree, outloud, of what we saw. We calculated that the
nose could hold about 50-100 people. The wingspan was 3 football
fields in length. It made a very low, quiet hum and seemed to be
just above the trees. We agreed that we could throw a stone up
and hit it. (We didn't, however, neither of us wanted to look
away) It was mesmerizing in that it was travelling so low to the
ground with no wind, and barely any sound. We decided to wave a
friendly hello, figuring that whoever was IN it, was watching us
too (we were feeling more comfortable: we reasoned that there
were no markings on it, it was so amazingly advanced and quite
simply, beautiful to watch. My husband didn't appreciate my
humor when I yelled "Beam us up, Scottie!" He was still
tentative about being under the thing...) My daughter woke up in
the car with my yell and said, "Mommy, whatcha doing?" "Watchin'
a spaceship", I said, without diverting my eyes.

We figured our conversation lasted about 3 minutes as this craft
stayed above my husband - he was quite far from the car. We
couldn't calculate the width of it until this point: I noticed
headlights in the corner of my eye, a car was coming. I yelled
to my husband to get out of the road. He came running toward the
car & this aircraft slowly turned to the south and then, in two
blinks of an eye, took off. No sound, no wind. Gone. A car came
flying by, seemingly ablivious to what had happened. So, we
drove home, checked the time, didn't lose any. Drew pictures,
discussed it, called our friends (who told us we left our camera
at their house!) and they suggested we make the calls to any
authorities. Needless to say, everyone laughed except the local
police who said that Long Valley was a "high activity area" for
that kind of thing. When I went to work, I told everybody! My
husband didn't tell a soul - after all, with working at Bell
Labs, he reasoned, these people are the country's top brains -
they'll think I'm nuts. Not me. I was SO amazed, I decided I had
to find out anything I could on aircraft power. Three days later
a group of research engineers came to my office because they'd
overheard my story (through the grapevine). They took notes,
asked questions and told me that the ONLY kind of power that
could fly an aircraft that low, with no wind or sound would be
through magnetic energy. To that date, in 1982, scientists had
only been able to harness enough magnetic energy to fly a
one-man hover craft, at 60 mph, about 100 miles max with NO
capabilities for stopping on a dime and turning directions. I've
read some since then, regarding magnetic power, and Canadian
scientists seem to be continuing research...they had hoped to
sell one-man hover crafts by 1995!! Still don't know what we saw
- was it a government project? I asked these scientists. They
shook their heads, chuckled and said THEY work on government
projects and there's just no way that kind of technology exists
- yet. They said we were no way near figuring how to harness
that amount of power - for that huge a craft. We were babes in
the woods. What do you think? Know where I can read more on
magnetic power?








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   Mar > Mar 19

                   Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed

From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:42:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:42:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed


>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
>Subject: Re: Charges Against Max Burns Dismissed
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:12:19 -0000

>I  feel in light of the actions that have been raised,concerning
>Max Burns investigation into the "Sheffield Incident", that it
>would be the right thing to do for Mr Clarke to resign his
>position forthwith as the BUFORA Press Officer.

Is Roy Hale a human parrot?

Does he have one original thought in his head?

Or is he just reading from a script worded for him in advance
by Max Burns?

His pathetic bleatings in defence of a proven liar and
fabricator of information are making Roy look a complete
and utter fool.

Mr Hale: what do you know about the facts of this case and
Max Burns' character other than what Max Burns has told
you himself?

Have you ever contacted me or anyone else to establish
the truth, or even a different version of the facts that Max
has provided you with?

You call for free speech and yet you make no effort
to obtain a balanced viewpoint or offer the same facility
to myself.

Like various other gullible people - including BUFORA staff who
should know better -  you have chosen to swallow Max's
unadulterated claptrap without any word of questioning, an
indication in itself of the sad and sorry state that UFOlogy is
falling into in this country, On the subject of Max's recent
arrest and subsequent court appearance, your allegations are not
only disingenuous but innacurate and completely disorted.

Rotherham Council's Legal Department contacted me directly at my
place of work several months ago asking for help to track down
Max Burns, who they were a that time seeking, having obtained a
warrant without bail fromMagistrates for his arrest over
outstanding council tax arrears.

They allege he has consistently failed to pay the outstanding
money and has failed to attend court hearings to settle the bill.
Despite the fact that Max KNEW there was a warrant for his
arrest he changed his address without informing the council,
claiming he could not afford the bus fare from Notts to Rotherham
to attend court.

Yet, for more than two weeks during this period he openly
flouted legal proceedings by failing to contact Rotherham MBC
with details of his whereabouts, and all the while spent that
time discussing his case on UFO UpDates, threatening legal
action against UFOlogists, and posting emails to all and sundry.
All I did was provide Rotherham MBC with a fax of one such
posting from UFO UpDates containing Max's online address,
through which the council subsequently traced him and arranged
for the police to arrest him.

This was the document which Max says he saw in West Bridgeford
police station.

Think about this: he was discussing the details of his legal
situation on the Internet, while actively avoiding contact with
the authorities who had issued a warrant for his arrest. If he
had nothing to hide as he claimed why did he simply not pick up
the phone and contact them during this same period of time?

At the end of the day, the council were forced to get the police
to go to Max's Nottingham address, arrest him and bring him back
to Rotherham to face proceedings.

Is this the actions of a man who had nothing to hide? These, Mr
Hale, are the FACTS which you would be well advised to
familiarise yourself with before sticking your foot into your
mouth once again.

By supporting Max's actions you are effectively encouraging
individuals to break their bail and flout the rule of law. You
should be ashamed of yourself - and should be expelled from
BUFORA, never mind making ridiculous calls for my resignation.

I will be passing your email address details to Rotherham MBC's
Legal Department who may contact you in future if they need to
trace Mr Burns; perhaps you might explain to them why you feel
Mr Burns is being unfairly treated.

Unlike yourself I believe in the rule of law, and would not
hesitate to provide the police or local council with information
leading to the arrest of fugitives from the law at any time they
ask. Not only is it my public duty, but part of the daily round
of my job as a crime reporter in Britain's fifth largest city.
Max is fond of sending "covert messages" when it suits him - but
doesn't like it when the boot is on the other foot.

>This is an outrageous situation for such an organisation. Why
>has BUFORA allowed this kind of thing to carry on without any
>action being taken from the board of BUFORA?

BUFORA has put itself in this position by having no guts to make
a decision and a stand in the face of the lunatic fringe. I
don't want to bore readers with this debate again, because Peter
Brooksmith covered all the points that needed making in his
posting to updates.

All I want to say is that BUFORA will regret giving a public
platform to the likes of Max Burns and his ragbag following of
lunatics, and Malcolm Robinson will enter history as the
conference organiser who turned the association into a laughing
stock as a result.

To whom will BUFORA be offering a platform to next?  Members of
Heaven's Gate suicide cults? Promoters of hypnotic regression to
unlock memories of alleged Satanic abuse?

If BUFORA is an "open church" and will not stifle ANY extreme
claims, no matter how offensive, and encourage the public airing
of libellous and legally contentious material then where do you
draw the line? The association should take heed of Peter
Brooksmith's wise and erudite advice and make a stand for common
sense.

I suspect it won't because its council have shown they cannot
make a decision, and allows itself to be taken for a ride by
devious and manipulative individuals who are out purely to
promote themselves at the expense of the subject itself.

BUFORA have been warned - and some day soon I will be saying:
"I told you so."





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   Mar > Mar 19

                          BWW Media Alert 19990319

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:54:39 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:45:54 -0500
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19990319


Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF=3D"http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">
http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin<;/A>
<A=
 HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/bufosweirdworld">Li=
nk
to Amazon.com</A>

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to
http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

March 19, 1999

I'm doing this one a bit early this week, since I will be off of the=
 computer
for a couple of days (am I twitching already? ;) ).  I may do a supplement
later, if warranted.

Totally off subject, if you would like to participate in the annual Bufo's
Oscar Prediction madness, please e-mail me, or go to
<A=
 HREF=3D"http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin/bop99.html">http://members.aol.co=
m/
bufocalvin/bop99.html</A>.  I'll extend the deadline through Saturday, since
I'd really like to get more ballots.  The more who participate, the more
accurate we seem to be=85

On to the listings: Times are generally Pacific.

RADIO

Eddie Middleton's very popular show in the South, Nightsearch, has a website
at <A HREF=3D"http://listen.to/nightsearch">http://listen.to/nightsearch<;/A>=
.
Unfortunately, no streaming audio.

JEFF RENSE - SIGHTINGS
Quite simply, this is my favorite show on which to appear. Jeff is=
 well-versed
on the topics, but likes to let the guests speak. You can hear Real Audio of
the show, and there are archives as well. Go to
<A HREF=3D"http://www.sightings.com/">http://www.sightings.com/<;/A> for more
information. The show is on at 7:00 PM Pacific Monday through Saturday, and
8:00 PM Pacific on Sunday. You can hear it anywhere through your computer.=
 To
subscribe to the Jeff Rense Weekly E-news (which includes articles), e-mail
(subject: Subscribe) <A HREF=3D"mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net">
mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net</A>.

Saturday, March 20, 7:00 PM, David John Oates, the reverse speech guy

TELEVISION

A&E

Thursday, March 25, 6:00 PM, THE UNEXPLAINED: SPEAKING WITH THE DEAD=
 (includes
James Van Praagh)
Thursday, March 25, 10:00 PM, THE UNEXPLAINED: SPEAKING WITH THE DEAD
(includes James Van Praagh)

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL

Saturday, March 20, 1:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: MYSTERIES OF THE SEA=
 (includes
Bermuda Triangle and mermaids)
Sunday, March 21, 12:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE:=
 NEAR-DEATH
EXPERIENCES
Thursday, March 25, 8:00 PM, AMERICA'S HAUNTED HOUSES
Thursday, March 25, 10:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: STRANGE BEASTS (British big
cats; Chinese hairy biped, presumably the Yeren)
Thursday, March 25, 11:00 PM, AMERICA'S HAUNTED HOUSES
Friday, March 26, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: STRANGE BEASTS (British big=
 cats;
Chinese hairy biped, presumably the Yeren)

LIFETIME

THE SCIENCE CHANNEL

The new schedule (since December 28, 1998) is weird programming for an hour
each at 3:00 AM, 11:00 AM,and 7:00 PM. Alternating shows are: INTO THE=
 UNKNOWN
and ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE. They also run a Roswell show now
every other week (it's probably the same show every time) at 4:00 AM and=
 noon
on Sundays.

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL

Friday, March 19, 11:00 AM  SIGHTINGS  EPISODE #4050 (Zimbabwean UFOs;=
 psychic
healing; British exorcisms; "peeping Casper")
Monday, March 22, 11:00 AM  SIGHTINGS  EPISODE #4051 (haunting; UFO videos;
psychics and MIAs; alien abduction; labyrinths)
Tuesday, March 23, 11:00 AM  SIGHTINGS  EPISODE #4052 (Government denials of
UFOs; psychics; bigfoot; Mexican UFOs; Mexican highway 666)
Wednesday, March 24, 11:00 AM  SIGHTINGS  EPISODE #5053 (Brazilian aliens;
moon colony; voices of the dead?)
Thursday, March 25, 11:00 AM  SIGHTINGS  EPISODE #5054 (haunted naval ship;
Edgar Mitchell, astronaut; Roswell; psychic research; past lives; crop
circles)
Friday, March 26, 11:00 AM  SIGHTINGS  EPISODE #5055 (UFOs; haunting;
predictions from Hawaii)

SYNDICATED

___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =3Deverything=3D seemed normal, that =3Dwould=3D be=
 weird!"
____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-
mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's
WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if there is
something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the=
 week
before.
_____________________________





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   Mar > Mar 19

                   Re: SPI News From England February 1999

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:48:17 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:36:16 -0500
Subject: Re: SPI News From England February 1999


>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:42:28 -0500
>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: SPI News From England February 1999
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Hey, Malcolm, don't put Max Burns on a BUFORA platform in June.

>Gosh, that took real courage... perhaps as much as it costs me
>to do up my bootlaces, but considerably less than it takes for
>me to drink tea with milk in it.


>From roy.hale@virgin.net

"Max is mad" they shout from the stand as the lecture slowly
roll's on, how could you let Max have his say this is not on, I
really must complain I thought that only our opinion counted
because " We did a proper job on investigating the case, so why
waste BUFORA's time".

I must admit being a good friend of Max, (Yes Max has some
friends!) that this tired old research of Max's that certain
people keep churning out, is in fact a replica of their own
statement. Come on people get real, if people disagree with your
opinion should we then not allow you any such platform for
debate.

People have been silenced in other Countries around the World
for their beliefs or perhaps what they have stumbled across, and
yet I hear on this list service the same crap from other
ufologist's which is "I dont want to hear the other side of the
story because I have already heard the version of events I feel
comfortable with".

Well like Malcolm said, this is not Russia and we are allowed to
present our case no matter what objections may arise. And since
when did ufologist's become Professional Psychiatrist's, on
dishing out who is mad and who isn't?.

How would Peter Brookesmith feel if quite suddenly know one
wanted to hear a single word about what his has found out about
the UFO subject no-matter how small and insignificant it maybe,
would that not be a little irritating, perhaps if such a thing
happened would it still be worthwhile investigating UFOs?.

Max will have his platform and his side of the story should be
told, and for researchers in other Countries not to make their
mind up until you have allowed Max to publicly have his side of
events broadcasted.

Roy..

"Proof By Perseverance"








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   Mar > Mar 19

                      Re: The '99 Southport Conference

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 99 12:55:27 PST
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:01:25 -0500
Subject: Re: The '99 Southport Conference


>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:26:05 +0000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: The '99 Southport Conference

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: The '99 Southport Conference
>>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 99 12:59:42 PST

>>Even if we know nothing else, however, we poor unenlightened
>>Yanks know how to spell colleagues' last names correctly.
>>Please note how the last name -- which has seen print, by the
>>way, some zillions of times since the 1960s -- is here rendered:

>>Jerome Clark*

>Dear Jerome

>I humbly apologise for mis-spelling your name. Please forgive me
>I won't do it again.

Sean,

Don't worry about it. You're not the first, nor, sigh, will you
be the last to think my last name is Clarke.  I blame it all,
incidentally, on Arthur C. Clarke.  If only he knew how to spell
his last name.

Cordially,

Jerry Clark









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   Mar > Mar 19

                Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:39:13 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:58:03 -0500
Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network


>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:07:25 -0500
>From: BRuce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: {100} Part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network
>>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:21:04 -0000

>>>><T_Matthew>There are not thousands of people - just a bunch of
>>>>well-paid story tellers and believers telling you this. These>

>>>Well paid story tellers? The abductees? Better tell them.
>>>They're still waiting for that first paycheck

>>So these 'abductees' writing books and having books written
>>about them are not being paid a penny?  Didn't Pamela
>>Stonebrooke get paid $50,000 for her book.

>>(If I'm mistaken forget an apology!)

>You are correct at least in part.....   she won't get all that
>money. BUT.... you referred to story tellerS .... plural....with
>the (clear?) implication that all or at least many abductees are
>laughing all the way to the bank. And then you pick one of the
>few who will actually bank something.  Perhaps a more relevant
>question is, what fraction of abductees whose stories are in the
>literature have actually made $$$? I suspect the fraction is
>small.

I know more than a few abductees. More than a few.  In the
several years I've been investigating my own experiences, my own
memories, I have met at least forty or so.  And some of these
I've known nearly all my life ... one is dead, another is a
friend, another is a person very close to me.

There are quite a few others.  I need to make something clear.
In my enthusiasm to engage this subject for myself, and upon
meeting some of these abductees early on, hearing their stories,
I was appalled that not a one of them chose to write books or
otherwise tell their stories for financial gain.  I guess I was
kind of surprised at their stories, which when compared with my
own, were extremely vivid, extremely complex and it was obvious
(to me) that these stories were believed to be very, very real
by the abductees telling them. It was so important to me that
these people tell their stories that I suggested they author a
book and/or go to a researcher and have them authored.

Not a one of these folks was financially independent.  All
needed money and all had other financial needs. Most were in the
hand to mouth or at least the paycheck to paycheck mode.  So why
not capitalize on their experiences, I asked?

The answers surprised me.  The first response I received was,
"Because if I try to make money on my experiences, my
credibility is diminished and I won't tolerate that!"

The second answer really shocked me.  "Besides," one person
opined, "Most people think you can get rich selling their story.
You don't even get a little rich.  There's no money in this
business."

Well, I checked this out for myself.  And after eight months of
nosing around, I determined the following _facts_...

1) No one has made sufficient money as author, researcher,
etc., to make up for the negative aspects of going public.

2) Even well known authors cannot afford to give up their day
jobs.

3) There are more cash flow problems with even many established
researchers as to make it "silly season" all year round for UFO
researchers.

4) If Gesundt didn't sell Gripple, he'd be just another rich
boy, like that cheese guy ... that Fromage person!

Publishers do not pay big money to anyone unless they write like
Steven King and sell soap detergent in the process.  This entire
scenario reminds me of "The Ballad of Frankie Lee and Judas
Priest!" Frankie needed some money, so asked his friend Judas
Priest for a small loan.  Judas, of course, agreed ... even
after he learned the reason Frankie wanted the money.  It was to
visit a house, "... with four and twenty windows, and a woman's
face in every one."

The moral of that story, the moral of that song, is that one
should never be, where one does not belong.   Perhaps some of
you don't belong in the UFO research business, eh?  Perhaps you
are too opinionated, or too stupid to realize what the words,
"bottom line" mean.  Perhaps, like Frankie Lee, you should not
be mistaking paradise, for that home across the road.

Drink up guys.  So Gesundt can do more for UFO research.  He's
in a race with that cheese vendor. And Gesundt doesn't like
losing!  Besides, everyone knows that cheese stinks, until it's
savored along with freshly made wine!  And like that old song
goes, "You get no bread with one meatball!"

Gesundt





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   Mar > Mar 19

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:22:55 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:18:27 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:40:32 +0100 (MET)
>Subject: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>Source:

>http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/CB990225.html

>Stig

>***

>National UFO Reporting Center Case Brief

>February 25, 1999

>Elk Abduction in Washington State

>NUFORC Home Page

>**

>On Monday, March 01, 1999, the National UFO Reporting Center
>(NUFORC) received a call over its telephone Hotline
>(206-722-3000) from an individual who identified himself as an
>employee in the forestry industry in Washington State.  The
>individual left a message, in which he reported that a team of
>forestry workers allegedly had been witness to an incident on
>Thursday, February 25, 1999, during which time an elk was lifted
>off the ground and carried away by a very peculiar, disc-shaped
>object. [*Click here to hear an excerpt from the hotline
>recording.]

You know, it would be interesting to hear Phil Klass explain
this one in what I think he likes to call "prosaic" terms.

Swamp gas, anyone?

-Brian C.





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   Mar > Mar 19

                        Re: Mysterious Valley Report?

From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:13:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:09:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Mysterious Valley Report?


>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:35:49 -0500
>Subject: Mysterious Valley Report?
>From: Bobby Dickey <listman2@juno.com>

>I heard something on CNN a couple of weeks ago about a web site
>called the Mysterious Valley Report. I cant find it. Anybody
>know where it is??

Try http://home.amigo.net/tmv  - located in Crestone, CO.

Don





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   Mar > Mar 19

                           Filer's Files #11-1999

From: George Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:24:09 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:15:21 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #11-1999


Filer's Files #11-1999,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,   MUFON Eastern Director,
March 18, 1999,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020

EZEKIEL AND THE WHEEL STORY REPEATED -- Now as I looked at the
living creatures, I saw a wheel upon the earth beside the living
creatures one for each of the four of them.  As for the
appearance of the wheels and their construction, their
appearance was like the gleaming of a chrysolite, and the four
had the same likeness being as it were a wheel within a wheel.
The four wheels had rims and they had spokes, and their rims
were full of eyes round about.  And when the living creatures
went, the wheels went beside them and when the living creatures
went, the wheels went with them, for the living creature was in
the wheel.  Ezekiel, Chapt. 1, 15 to 21.  Revised Standard
Version.  Was the following what Ezekiel saw?

WASHINGTON ELK ABDUCTED BY UFO

WA MUFON Director of Investigations Robert A. Fairfax, and the
Director of National Reporting Center, Peter Davenport drove
down to the Mt. St. Helens area to investigate a phenomenal case
-- the daytime elk abduction witnessed by 14 forestry workers.
Peter reports: "The crew was planting trees on February 25,
1999.  A herd of elk were grazing about 280 feet down slope and
to the north of them (about 1600 feet away).  Just before noon,
a small UFO flew slowly over the ridge and wobbles its way down
toward the herd.  About 100 feet from contact with the herd, the
animals become aware of the craft and run uphill to the east.
One of the elk separates somewhat from the rest and the UFO
pursues it.  Without pause the craft goes over the animal at a
height that might have brushed the elk's head.  The craft with
the elk dangling beneath then starts ascending to the northeast.
The witnesses added that shortly after lifting the elk off the
ground, the object seemed to begin to "wobble" to a more
pronounced degree than it had exhibited earlier.  As the object
appeared to increase its altitude, the elk, which was suspended
upright below the disc, rotated slowly beneath it and appeared
to be getting closer to the ventral surface of the disc.  The
elk is slowly rotating but no other movement from the animal is
detected.  When the craft reaches the end of the clear-cut and
encounters the tree line the elk is almost totally inside
however the craft is not high enough to clear the treetops.  It
is thought that the treetops might have been hit.  They also
commented that the object seemed to increase in size slightly
after it had picked up the animal.  With the elk suspended below
it, the object began to ascend slowly up a clear-cut slope to
the east.  However, the witnesses watched it apparently brush
the tops of nearby trees to the east, at which point it reversed
its course and proceeded to the west.

The witnesses stated that once the object had started to ascend
and had climbed to an altitude above their vantage point, they
no longer could see the animal suspended below the craft.  Their
presumption was that the animal had somehow been taken into the
craft.  The witnesses could discern no "door," or any kind of
aperture through which the animal might have been conveyed into
the craft.  The craft circled (after much wobbling) 360 degrees;
gaining altitude then ascended nearly vertically until it was
lost from sight in the clouds.  We found a dead elk two miles or
so from the sight.  However, there were no mutilation marks
discernible, no gunshot wounds found, and no broken bones from a
fall.  The large female elk appeared healthy albeit dead.  We
were on the site 8 days after the event.  No scavengers had
attacked the elk body.  We found a dead porcupine on the drive
out with a scavenger bird picking at the remains.  A large
corporation and another company are involved in the
investigation, but want their names kept secret.  Robert Fairfax
stated this is an excellent sighting because of these 5 factors
that point to a real event.   1.  The 14 forestry workers were
working on contract for a large corporation with a number of
individuals that had worked for 15 to 20 years with the same
company.  It is not likely that they would risk their jobs to
pull a stunt.  The forestry people were sincere and believable.
2.  The corporation (which must remain unnamed at their request)
vouched for the past integrity of the individuals who are all
hard working family men that work in inclement weather
conditions without any complaints.  3.  The voice tone and body
language during interviewing left me with no doubt that they had
been frightened, awed, confused and were telling the truth.  4.
Details that would generally not be known to ordinary people,
e.g., The description of the oscillating wobble traveling 360
degrees around the circumference of the craft.  That the elk
herd gathered together in a tight group for the rest of the
afternoon after the one was abducted.  The humans grouped
together for the rest of the afternoon also.  5.  Some reported
having continued nightmares after the fact. 6.  They wanted
absolutely no publicity and they were not even going to tell
anyone about it.  A corporate supervisor (not at the site but
seeing the group later) noticed that the whole group appeared
frightened by something and had to pry it out.  Anyway, those
were some indicators.  The witnesses saw a more pronounce wobble
and interpreted that as the object having trouble with the extra
weight.  Thanks to Robert A. Fairfax and G. Knowles WA State
Director, Walter Sheets and Peter Davenport.

OKLAHOMA

TULSA -- Tracy L. Thomson reports he was driving north on I 44
on March 3, 1999.  At 3:23 PM he observed four flying objects
with two similar objects flying "Wingmen."  They crossed the sky
in front of me about 500 feet.  I am a commercially rated pilot
keen on W.W.II vintage aircraft and flew sixty missions in Korea
in Skyraider AD4NL's.  They have no rudder or empenage.  I can
make out something between a ball and a flat disk about the size
of a VW Beetle.  The ships are shiny silver in color.  They move
in perfect formation of four and two with no sound.  I watch the
four formed into solid flying-wing configuration while the other
two mated into one.  There is no irregularity to be observed in
their formation before they unite at 140 to 150 mph.  They flew
so evenly fluid; so perfect in formation; so unlike anything
human pilot's could achieve.  I watch them fly at an altitude
precisely level with the 8th floor of a building they pass to
their left side.  Is this an illusion?  They seemed higher --
and now so low.  I turn my head to check traffic in front of me.
I turn my head back toward the building that marks passage of
the flying objects.  They are gone.  I check my watch.  It is
1523.  Oh, no!  Don't tell me.  Jesus Christ, I have to say it:
I just witnessed six UFO's slipping through Tulsa.  Thanks to
CAUS and Tracy L. Thomson (zzyzxspeed@earthlink.net)

GEORGIA

John Thompson reports that on March 10, at around 9:30 PM local
time, a middle-aged horticulturist was driving southwest in
Troup County on I-85, when a brilliant white ball passed in
front of him.  Flying extremely low and level and to the
northwest, the non-blinking, solid white ball had an apparent
size of Venus.  The white ball exhibited no sparkler effect or
tail, as would be expected if only a meteor was seen.  The ball
appeared to be flying at nearly twice the speed of a small jet
aircraft that, within 30 seconds, was seen to be following it.
The witness estimated that the UFO and the small jet were flying
at less than a 1000 feet altitude.  The jet had a triangle
configuration of green and red lights, with at least one light
blinking as is required by the FAA.  On arriving at the location
where the white ball and small jet crossed I-85, they heard the
familiar "whop-whop-whop" of a low- flying helicopter pass
directly overhead.  The helicopter he said, based on its noise,
was chasing the plane and ball that had preceded it.  Total
viewing time for the white ball to cross the horizon in front of
the horticulturist was about "5-6 seconds."

On March 13, 1999, in the Troup-Heard Corridor, a witness had a
bizarre set of sightings.  At 12:40 AM he was laying in bed when
he saw a greenish-blue light barely peeking through the closed
blinds of his bedroom window.  Getting up, he opened the blinds
far enough to see three greenish-blue rectangles "sitting" in
front of a ridge line only a half-a-mile away.  Looking at 220
degrees, the identical rectangles had an apparent length equal
to the moon. The northern most triangle, however, was near the
top of the ridge, whereas the other two were on line with each
other halfway up.  All three rectangles were orientated with
their longer bodies parallel to the ground.  Estimated real size
of the rectangles was approximately 20 x 5 feet long.  Pulling
the blind all the way up the witness said he watched the
rectangles for "5 seconds" when suddenly all three lights went
off.  Opening the window, he heard no sound.  In this northern
portion of Troup County, on at least one occasion, steady,
glowing green lights have been found in and on top of the soil.
It can be speculated that biological or Piezoelectric activity
may be creating strange lighting patterns.

On March 15, at dusk, a brilliant white light appeared for
nearly 7 to 8 minutes.  Walking towards the woods about 75 yards
away the witness heard what sounded like a "humming sound."
Within a few seconds the noise got louder and sounded like a
small roaring jet engine.  Flying slowly, a black triangle with
a 5 to 7 feet wingspan flew over twenty feet above the witness.
At 7:50 PM while looking again to the northeast a red light shot
straight up from the wood line.  Another member of the witness's
family saw a "thin yellow line" of about 15 feet instantly
appear and disappear only thirty feet above them. Within 30
seconds a "blue invisible" triangle "riding" on a solid blue
haze streaked by at the same low height going to the Northeast.
The triangle was of similar size of the black triangle but flew
at a blinding speed and made no noise.  The outline of the
triangle was visible but the interior of the triangle was
"invisible" so that the night sky could be seen through it.
While it could be speculated that a remote control model craft
or drone was responsible for the first triangle sighting, the
combination of strange events over a three day period suggests
most unusual activity.  Clear sky, no wind, unlimited visibility
and 45 degrees F.  Thanks to John Thompson.

FLORIDA

Also on March 15, 1999, a 37 year old truck driver 30 miles west
of Jacksonville, Florida saw a UFO at approximately 9:45 PM.
Driving west he said he saw two bright stars (Jupiter) and "to
its left (south) and lower, another star (Venus)."  Above the
planets Venus and Jupiter there was a third bright "star."  As
he continued to drive on I-10 the "star" moved down and between
the gap between Jupiter and Venus.  Thinking his eyes were
playing tricks on him he pulled his rig over.  For the next five
minutes he watched this unknown object move downward.  After
reaching a spot low on the horizon, it then moved upward and to
the northwest.  After a few minutes of climbing, the object
stopped and remained stationary.  He lost interest in watching
it and got back into his truck.  He said the unknown object, in
his opinion, was not in our atmosphere.  He also said that Venus
and Jupiter did not move relatively speaking in relation to what
the unknown object did over the approximate 15 minutes plus he
watched it. Thanks to John Thompson

ALABAMA

Chris Mc Craney reports that he saw reports on cattle
mutilation.  He saw a late February 1999 report on the local
news Channel 12 (WSFA) that in the town of Pine Apple, a horse,
some cows and goats where all sexually mutilated. They did not
know who was responsible.  Thanks to ISUR Chris Mc Craney:
arkmcc3166@auburn.campus.mci.net and Walter Sheets

PENNSYLVANIA UFO FIRES A BEAM

PHILADELPHIA -- On February 23, 1999, William B. was driving to
his office at 6:10 AM when he though he saw the landing lights
of a large commercial airliner coming directly at him.  The
color was white, steady, no additional lights.  There were
multiple points on the object, maybe as many as eight, making it
appear in the same general appearance as a Christmas star" on
top of a Christmas tree.  "What made the light interesting was
the appearance of a bluish-white, spotlight-like beam coming out
of it at a 45-degree angle toward the surface.  Within this beam
was a much-thinner white threadlike beam which came to an
apparent halt within the bluish beam approximately 20 percent of
the way to the ground, and then appeared to slightly diverge in
direction. "The object was about 30 degrees above the horizon
and no sound was heard.  "I estimate that the object was over
the King of Prussia 20 miles away.  Apparent size about 20
percent of the size of the full moon."  Thanks to UFO Roundup
Vol. 4 #10 3/15/99, Joe Trainor editor.

NEW YORK

Skywatch reports that  SPIRITLV@aol.com  saw a UFO in Western,
NY on  March 16, 1999, at 12:21 AM.  My wife saw a white object
travel very squiggly a few hundred feet above her.  The sighting
lasted a couple minutes and shot by without making any noise.
The censor lights at her work place flickered after it passed
by.  I also looked at the sky and had noticed a very large
diamond shaped object with various colors in it.  It appeared as
it was moving and blending in with the stars.  Thanks to
SPIRITLV@aol.com and Skywatch.

OHIO

CLYDE -- (Sandusky County) Kenny Young reports that two separate
UFO incidents were reported to police on the nights of March 11
and March 14, 1999.  The first incident was reported to police
in Clyde at about 11:45 PM, not far from Lake Erie. The police
report for March 11 reads, in part, as follows: "The complainant
[name withheld for privacy] stated that she was traveling
towards Clyde, Ohio on SR 101 in the area of County Road 260.
She stated that she observed what appeared to be a UFO [that]
looked like a triangle in shape and had three round lights on
the bottom.  She stated that it was directly overhead and she
could not determine the height or distance.  She stated that she
could visibly see that it was triangle in shape with very
distinct round lights.  She stated, that it was at this point
for several minutes and then, like a shooting star, the UFO sped
away in an unknown direction.  The police officer adds that he
contacted Peter Davenport at the National UFO Reporting Center.
He was told that a similar sighting had been phoned in from the
Chicago, Illinois area just 10 minutes earlier.  It is not known
if the two events are related since Clyde is 200 miles east of
Chicago.

FREMONT -- In the second UFO incident about six miles northwest
of Clyde on March 14, the witness telephoned police at 11:36 PM.
A patrol officer in the area reported also seeing a strange
cluster of lights as reported by the main witness.  The patrol
officer's report states, in part: "The complainant [name
withheld for privacy] called dispatch and indicated that he was
observing a strange array of lights in southwestern sky.  The
lights were clustered together and multicolored.  "As I
responded to the area of the call, I first observed the cluster
of lights as I was on the west end of the bypass.  They appeared
to be red, green, white or yellow in color.  I continued south
on SR 53 and then west on SR 12.  The lights did not appear to
be getting closer, so I pulled my cruiser over in order to
retrieve my field glasses from the trunk. "I was unable to
identify the object through my field glasses.  The lights
appeared to be illuminating in a steady fashion.  I did not
observe any flashing or change in brightness.  The unidentified
flying object did not give me any indication that it was
anything else other than an airplane or helicopter.  Although
the lights did not appear to be moving at a high rate of speed,
the height and distance from my location made it difficult, if
not impossible, to estimate. "Ohio-based researcher Kenny Young
was alerted to this incident by Tim Hagemeister of NACOMM.
Young followed up with the main witness and learned the man's
wife and daughter had also seen the strange lights.  The witness
said the objects were visible from around 11:30 PM until almost
2:00 AM when the family finally decided to retire to bed.  "They
were not stars, airplanes, or helicopters," the witness
insisted.  "They were cigar-shaped, oscillating lights.  Several
of them were way out to the west of us sitting in a triangular
pattern.  "One that was closest seemed to have a white light
underneath and [an]other light on top." We did not see any
structure -- they were too far away -- but we could see some
shape to them. "Each individual object would be visible for a
lengthy duration of time, and would move around in different
parts of the sky."  "They were not on the horizon at any point."
The witness emphasized this detail to distinguish the unusual
lights from twinkling stars, which were seen to be setting
toward the western horizon.  The daughter described a quiet, low
humming sound heard while the objects were closest to their
location.  They were cigar shaped or oblong lights.  The witness
said the incident scared them. Thanks to Kenny Young  UFO
Research  http://home.fuse.net/ufo/

CANADA

Paul Anderson Director of CPR-Canada writes that the new
national newspaper, The National Post, has an article entitled
"Stranger than Science Fiction." The article outlines the
discovery, since at least the early 1980s, of more than 2,000
strange rings, in the forest regions of northern Ontario and
Quebec with various theories to explain them.  Fungus was ruled
out by testing.  The article centers on the work of Jean
Veillette, a geomorphologist with the Geological Survey of
Canada in Ontario, who first found the rings on aerial photos.
The rings are perfectly round, ranging from under 300 meters to
two kilometers (over a mile) across.  The rings are
light-colored, with sparse vegetation growth, standing out
against the darker colors of the surrounding vegetation (inside
and outside the rings), and are "depressed" into the soil. The
rings are found typically in areas of carbonate-rich soil and,
or bedrock, located in forest regions of black spruce, tamarack
and pine trees.  Whether these have anything at all to do with
crop circles or UFO landings per se I do not know, but they are
certainly intriguing, even if just a natural phenomenon (?).
The article is on page A17 of the March 16 edition of The
National Post. The article also contains two aerial photos, one
showing a ring in Quebec that is 500 meters across.  Paul
Anderson Director CPR-Canada The National Post, March 16, 1999.

ILE BIZARD, QUEBEC -- Gaetan D. is 38 years old and lead a happy
life until he witnessed a UFO at 5:45 PM on Friday, March 5,
1999.  He says it has turned his life upside down.  I was
walking my dog in the woods and admiring the sunset when I saw
this object fall from the sky.  It was about 100 feet above me.
It was huge, metallic in color with a very bright white light in
front. The middle of this thing was orange and blue.  It had a
cigar like shape. There were allot of white sparks flying as it
flew behind the trees.  It seemed to become one again and change
shape.  It fell behind the trees at an angle of about 45
degrees.  All this took 25 seconds.  Believe me nothing of this
world can look and do what this thing did.  There was no noise.
Believe me what I saw is not of this world.  The temperature was
about -10 C. Thanks to Gaetan D.  Thomas McFarland, Vermont
MUFON State Director

PORT ALBERI, VANCOUVER ISLAND, BC -- Ryan Forrester, 26 years
old reports about a year ago I was going over to my friends
house to meet him.  He wasn't there yet so I went around to his
patio in the back yard.  The view from his patio over looks the
canal and mountains that are quite a distance away.  At first I
thought they were birds or planes.  I realized they were to far
away to be birds.  I knew they were not planes because planes do
not fly in groups of twenty-five and if they did you would at
least here some noise.  These were black objects flying close
together at a very low altitude.  When they were over the
mountains I knew for sure that they were not planes, so what
were they?  I am an artist so I drew a picture of what I saw so
if you are interested let me know.  Thanks to Ryan Forrester
lois@arrowsmith.net

HAPPY FACE ON MARS

NASA's Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft began its prime mapping
mission the second week of March and one of the first things it
saw was a smiling face. NASA is hoping this new image isn't as
controversial as the last face on Mars which led to theories
that an alien civilization had carved it out of the Martian
rock.  The Happy Face Crater, as it is known, was imaged by the
Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) on the first day of Global Surveyor's
mapping mission. "The MOC team's happiness is perhaps best
expressed by the planet Mars itself," Malin Space Science
Systems, which built the camera, said in a caption accompanying
the "happy face" image.  The low level mapping has been delayed
by over a year by technical problems and scientists are
delighted to start their imaging work again. See the smiling
face at Astronomy Now 3/11/99,
http://www.astronomynow.com/breaking/990311mgs/index.html.

Correction: In Filer's Files #9 a sighting occurred over Rhode
Island of a triangle shaped craft that was reported to ISUR.
There were two separate sightings rather than only one. The
craft was dimly lighted, but had a circular light at the center
of the craft. The first one was on February 15, 1999, at 7:00 PM
and a second sighting was on February 20, 1999, at 11:40 PM.
Request removal of Dennis Bossack's phone, and address from the
previous file.

MUFON JOURNAL -- For more detailed investigative reports
subscribe by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099
or E-mail Mufon@aol.com.  Filer's Files Copyright 1998 by George
A. Filer, all rights reserved.  Readers may post items from the
Files on their Websites provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item
appeared.  Send your letters to me at Majorstar@aol.com.  If you
wish to keep your name confidential please so state.





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 19

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:32:50 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:22:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:33:07 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:51:14 -0000

>>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:14:22 EST
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>Subject: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


<snip>

Had to mention something here, forgive me if this has already
been said: Arnold described the flight characteristics of the
craft he saw as those of a saucer being skipped across water. I
don't recall Arnold saying that the craft he observed were
actually disc shaped. Please correct me if I am mistaken on
this.

As for the Horton aircraft theory, hey, you never know. But I
will be clear and state that aviation and the history of
aviation is by no means my area of expertise. Jeff Rense had a
great article on his website about the Horton aircraft.

With regard to the Trent sighting, Mr.Trent told me that he and
his wife believed they may have witnessed a secret military
aircraft in flight... this does not make it so...

With my two cents worth now in, I will let you all debate to
your heart's content.

Regards,





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   Mar > Mar 19

                             Re: 'UFO Awareness'

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:00:44 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:25:51 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Awareness'


>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:08:03 +0000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: 'UFO Awareness'

>>From: Jeremy Anderson <Jerry@uforesearch.freeserve.co.uk>
>>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: UFO Awareness
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:12:30 -0000

>>Dear colleges,

>>In order to promote co-operation between UFO research groups
>>both nationally and internationally, and also to 'educate' the
>>general public as to the role such groups, we propose the
>>following:

>>We intend to target locations such as libraries,

>Oh dear, aren't we poor librarians to get any rest?

>>community
>>centres, schools etc., in order to get the message across.

>Apart from the fact that these so-called education projects are
>always abysmal flops (whether organised by national governments
>or hole-in-the- corner UFO groups), do we _really_ need higher
>public awareness of UFOs and UFO groups? Don't we rather need to
>educate _ourselves_ more in basic science and investigation
>techniques so we can avoid some of the barmier extremes of our
>beloved topic, before we start bothering the public with
>badly-produced posters on public library notice-boards next to
>the adverts for the local flower-show and the Satanic-abuse
>survivors' help-line?

Dear John;

I always wanted to write that!

Hmmm... are you saying that UFO researchers should avoid contact
with the public, the citizenry so-to-speak, until we have
achieved a common ground among ourselves?  Huh?  That we should
not discuss, congregate, belabor, perturb, make known our dismal
failures, communcate, fornicate or otherwise impregnate the
world citizenry.... not until we have found our own equation,
the one which explains God, the Universe, UFOs and Everything?
Huh?

Nah!

Dr. Jaime Gesundt, Ph.D., MBA, M.O.U.S.E.





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 20

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Lynda Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:07:02 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:40:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:11:36 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
>>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:51:14 -0000
>>Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:59:14 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>>Even Wendy Connors admits in a recent IUR article
>>that there was a large hangar at Wright-Patt closed off to even
>>fairly high-ranking personnel including those tasked with
>>so-called 'flying saucer ' investigations!

<snip>

>>Wonder why?
>
>More innuendo and handwaving, no facts.  For all we know the
>hangar could have contained anything from alien crashed saucers
>to crashed MIGs to secret but otherwise conventional aircraft
>under development.  Something called compartmentalization would
>deny access to anybody without a need to know, even if they had
>high level clearance for other material.
>
>>Wouldn't have anything to do with those 'saucer' models they had
>>in 1947 would it??
>
>So would it?  The saucer models Wright Patterson began testing
>in wind tunnels in October 1947 were based on descriptions
>furnished by saucer sighting witnesses, particularly pilots,
>Kenneth Arnold being among them.  (Photos may also have been
>used, such as those taken by Rhodes over Phoenix on July 7, the
>negatives of which were taken by air intelligence.)
>
>Now why would they bother to build and test models based on
>sightings of their own aircraft?  Answer me that.

What Dave is basically doing is the good ol' trick of the
believer Ufologist - he knows full well that most of the
information we're after (well he's not after it) is still
classified and HE FAILS to answer the most important points -
that flying discs are clearly constructed for use within the
atmosphere, and that there is NO evidence that they are of ET
origin.

For the record I have no interest in Vesco but just because
those of us interested in MMUFOs cannot find all the evidence -
and believe me we have a great deal more than Vesco, Harbinson
or Childress ever had at their disposal - in no way invalidates
what we are saying....

I don't think that Paul Hill's work is of any interest and I
note with interest that Rudiak fails to answer the facts
surrounding German disc projects - however primitive these might
have been.

If he'd bothered to use his brain he would have noticed quite
distinct similarities between the XF5U1 - and associated schemes
- and the Trent disc.

Again, no evidence that Trent saw an 'alien craft' - so what is
that he captured on film then??

The AS Weyl article is instructive and has NOT been mentioned in
any book or article that I've read. Of course Vesco is
overly-reliant upon stories featured in the German popular press
- and which might have been written for less than pure motives -
as is Harbinson but if he bothers to read "UFO Revelation" (he
won't cos it upsets his sad belief systems) he'll find all kinds
of interesting things.

Neither Vesco nor Harbinson knew about 'Project Silver Bug' or
about Navy discs.

Their books are littered with simple factual errors whilst Vesco
quotes UK government reports that were never written! So much
for my reliance upon these two dubious sources....

Some people including Bruce M and Dave R - resort to piss-taking
but this doesn't impress me. After all, I'm not the one who got
hoaxed by Ed Walters..

The fact has been proved that whilst ATIC were covering up the
true nature and extent of the saucer 'problem' they were working
with Richard Miethe and AVRO to design discplanes that could be
used to intercept similar Soviet devices that the US knew all
about.

AFR 200-2 was brought in entirely because of the (perceived?)
Soviet threat and certainly the Soviets had their discs as
admitted by Marcus Wolf, former head of the STASI in East
Germany and somebody who would have known something about
this.....

We also know that Korolyev had an interest in German disc
projects and after all it was the Soviets who captured the
facilities in Prague where the German V7 and V8 prototypes were
designed and built.

Who says this?

Not Ufologists that's for sure but men who were actually there
when Prague fell and to whom my associates have spoken.

Dave ignores AIR 100-203-79 which states that the objects
reported 'most closely resemble' flying wings of US-German
origin!

As to Bruce M he does the same and claims that the discs at
Wright-Patt were designed by Loedding. Some maybe but certainly
not all and do these people expect us to believe that ET had a
disc there too? A quite ridiculous conclusion to have reached...

What is more Loedding was well out of the picture in terms of US
Navy discs and nothing to do with 'Project Silver Bug' - which
we found out about more by accident than design.

I wonder why Bruce and Dave seem to be able to tell us why many
of the US disc projects remain classified and why the US
military will not release information on advanced Navy discs,
Dr. Richard Miethe, Project Silver Bug (25 pages is the tip of
the iceberg) or other similar projects.

Our FOIA requests have been reviewed and appealed but they won't
tell us why no information....

Only through our pressure have we been able to get 1,500 pages
of associated material on the VZ-9, Project Y and P1794...

Their interest was and is aircraft, and that's what we know
flying wings - circular and otherwise to have been. Of all the
thousands of UFO sightings how many can we say in any honesty
were really of US or Soviet discplanes or of anything
'unidentified'? Hardly any - especially given the early hysteria
surrounding Arnolds' claims whereby every state almost had to
have flying saucers to stay part of the Union (!).

The fact remains that Arnold drew and described something that
looked entirely man-made and very much akin to German and US
projects.

You just can't get away from that....

Do these people realize that John C Frost, head of the Special
Projects Group at AVRO, stated in his notes THAT WE HAVE IN OUR
POSSESSION that Soviet discs were being seen near US borders
regularly in the 1950s.....??

Explain that guys.....

Rudiak and his unfortunate fellow-travellers will never accept
it because they don't want to. Even though we provide new
evidence on a regular basis it is either ignored or debunked by
people who have little or no idea about aircraft and/or
aerodynamics. The people who do know and who have been
associated with secret projects all say to a man that we had the
technology - and still do.....

I don't hear any UFO researchers getting into the whole business
of publisher, journalist and combat veteran jack Pickett's
revelations about flying discs at MacDill AFB in 1967 and how
during a debriefing by USAF Intel officers he was told about the
man-made origins of these things - amply demonstrated by their
jet propulsion in any case.

No, Dave and co prefer the ravings of crash retrievalists who
have no evidence to support their contentions.

In fact Dave comes over as a bit of a dimwit when it comes to
advanced aircraft projects.

His inability to grasp reality is just one reason why I am
unsubscribing from UFO Updates - despite the best efforts of EBK
there is little or no hope for Ufology.

If I need religion I'll go to church.

In the meantime I turn the UFO 'debate' - such as it is - over
to those who deserve to engage in it......

Tim Matthews.








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   Mar > Mar 20

                    Re: Charges against Max Burns Dropped

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:37:53 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:54:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Charges against Max Burns Dropped


Dear All,

I think that Roy is making a mistake here but then Max writes
for his magazine and so perhaps this is the reason for his
support.

BUFORA is now a pathetic joke and in light of their new policy
on free speech I submit a list of speakers for future events -
they're bound to draw the crowds in;

John Tyndall - BNP leader.
Louis Farrakhan - Nation of Islam
Friends Of Ted Bundy.
Don Worley
Roger the footdoctor Leir
Linda MJ-12 Howe
Cartman from South Park..

See, guaranteed to enlighten the thirty or so diehards who
attend the BUFORA London lectures.

BTW, I checked out the cost of hiring the hall in London and it
emerged that even with discount it was =A3150 a go. No wonder
BUFORA has less money than in the past. My Society gets more
people than this for regular monthly meetings!

I know for sure that Max has sent hate mail to myself and others
under the pathetic email pseudonym "Terminator2001@hotmail.com"
and that he has made threats against other researchers. I
remember well the time I met him in Sheffield - ironically
during a BUFORA Conference in August 1997 - where he stated in
front of several people that he had bribed the witnesses to the
supposed "Sheffield Incident" with drugs, that he knew members
of 'the local Mafia' (a claim that I am tempted to re-examine in
light of recent events), that 'Intelligence Officers visit me
for tea' and other such pathetic drivel.

What's more he was rude, offensive and made sexist comments to
my wife Lynda - which she hasn't forgotten - and this kind of
thing makes a mockery of a situation where supposed 'free
speech' is being offered to a "man" who would almost certainly
destroy it for others - at least in terms of the Ufological
debate.

Only this week he has accused me of working for the Office of
Naval Intelligence (!) and last month was claiming that I was
using various aliases and leading a secret triple life and
working for UK Intelligence!

I wish!

What is more shocking about this whole affair is the way in
which certain people in BUFORA have been completely taken in by
Burns' bleating. I think this is a terrible shame and not a
particularly good advert for their ability to weigh people up.

Even more ironic is the fact that he might not ever get to
London to give the lecture because he might be behind bars.....!
We do not need these kind of people in Ufology - it already
attracts more than it's fair share of disturbed individuals and
now we appear to be encouraging them.

I'm sure I'm not the only one secretly hoping that BUFORA would
get its' act together over time. Unfortunately it was the
biggest grouping and had the furthest to fall and I suspect that
the need for such a bureaucratic organisation is long gone.
Effective local and National networking between and amongst the
few objective researchers is all that is required for progress
to be made.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable here and this just seems to
be yet another cock-up in a several-year history of cock-ups as
far as BUFORA is concerned.......

The bottom line is that Burn's research is so poor as to be
utterly worthless. He can provide no evidence to support his
claims and I agree with PB that (and coming from an RAF family)
I cannot think of any ethnic minority pilots....more's the pity.
Max has almost managed to ruin John Dagenhart's RAF career and
thinks nothing of continuing to misrepresent this man's
statement.

Burns' nonsense would indeed go down well at a MUFON symposium
and perhaps the malaise that has affected MUFON has, like all
the worst things, been transported over here by some means.

If BUFORA is about encouraging the highest standards of research
- and not just acting as a self-appointed platform for allcomers
- then Burns has no place within a thousand miles of the stage
in West London.....

Tim X







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   Mar > Mar 20

               Re: Woman Puts Up Money To Fund Et Alien Rescue

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:42:08 +1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:02:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Woman Puts Up Money To Fund Et Alien Rescue


>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:48:12 +0000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Woman Puts Up Money To Fund Et Alien Rescue Mission

The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail  tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian  Research Network Hot Line Number
                       1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************


Hi Everyone <smile>

1800 Free Call, Callin Code 0070 to 0074

It would appear there  may not be a crashed UFO in WA  we have
had so many calls on the hot line from a lady calling herself
Mrs M, she was so confused she thought she was calling Ross
Dowes number, in the end I had to call Mr H Mason in WA and ask
him to ask her to stop calling the hot line. He stated that he
thought the lady was very confused and would pass on the message
to Ross Dowe. 1 900 pay by the minute call service


Message: Quoted Mrs M

"The deal is off " I'm most upset, I fell sick after the flight.
Ross it only cost $49.00 for a train ticket to Kogolee and I'm
being asked to pay $500 for train expenses.  I'm most upset that
I have been asked to pay and I do not like this man I'm dealing
with,  "I thought I was dealing with UFO people not some "beep
beep" Sorry the deal is off.

She then hung up the phone

Mr H Mason stated: she was asked to pay for the expenses of the
expedition which included going and look for the UFO occupants,
which could take many hours in a light plane.

Mr H Mason said: I don't think the lady is all there, but I will
pass on the message to Ross Dowe and ask him to ask her to stop
calling your Hot line.

The End

Regards Diane Harrison
Co Director The Australian UFO Hotline

Ps: By the way, "how much technology would $53.000 buy these
days" ha!! not much. Also netwatchers beware there is a guy in
Aussie selling rides on a space ship for only $44.000,  ha!!
maybe Mrs M & Mr N could get together and work out a deal
<G>Goodluck Ross Dowe.

----------






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   Mar > Mar 20

                       UFO Forum March and April News

From: Eldon Garlock <eg2@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:21:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:13:11 -0500
Subject: UFO Forum March and April News


Countdown To Year 2000

volume 1, number 3, Compuserve UFO forum newsletter


Things are really busy in the forum. Discussions in the
"Millennium/Y2K" section 9 are hot and heavy. Drop in and post
your questions and comments to Kent, Dean and the gang. Check
out the "Experiencers/Contacts" section 6 and "Sightings"
section 15 and MUFON section 8 for the latest reported sightings
and contacts world wide. A feature we started a few weeks ago
was posting excerpts in whole and in part from the daily CAUS
newsletter (Citizens Against UFO Secrecy). Very interesting
reading.


In other news:

Women In Ufology Conferences

Monday, March 22, starts off our two week salute to "Women in
UFOlogy" conferences. And it is going to be an informative and
interesting series. Sysop John Sime has done it again, great
work John!

Here is the latest schedule of events. Check the UFO forum
message board section 4, "Women in UFOlogy," for more details.

Monday, March 22, (9:00 pm EST, 6:00 pm PST, 2:00 am Tuesday
GMT)

 V. SUSAN FERGUSON - author of "Inanna Returns" and Inanna
Hyper-Luminal"; books based on the theories of Zechairia Sitchin

Monday, March 29, (7:00 pm EST, 4:00 pm PST, midnight GMT)

 GEORGINA BRUNI - author of upcoming book on UFOs in Britain,
and columnist for UFO magazine.

Tuesday, March 30, (7:00 pm EST, 4:00 pm PST, midnight GMT)

 LINDA MOULTON HOWE - award winning journalist and researcher
on the long running problem of cattle mutilations. Science
reporter and a regular on Art Bell's Dreamland Show.

Wednesday, March 31 (7:30 pm EST, 4:00 pm PST, 12:30 am
Thursday GMT)

 KATHARINA WILSON - Author of "Alien Jig-Saw" and abductee;
has studied the medical aspects of abduction.

Monday, April 5, (7:00 pm EST, 4:00 pm PST, midnight GMT

 DEBORAH LINDEMAN - Coordinator (along with husband Michael)
of the CNI website which tracks UFOs and other such phenomena
world wide.

Tuesday, April 6 (8:00 pm EST, 5:00 pm PST, 1:00 am Wednesday
GMT)

 Dr. Heather Harder - Candidate for the Democratic
Presidential Nomination; advocates openness on UFOs by
government.

To reach the UFO forum conference rooms from Compuserve, GO UFO.

>From the Internet or AOL, point your browser to the UFO forum
web page at "http://go.compuserve.com/UFO" and click on the
"Chat" button. All the conferences will be held in the "Special
Guests" conference room 18 and will be interactive. You can talk
directly to the guest.

As a special introduction from the Compuserve UFO forum, all the
above conferences will be open to non-Compuserve members. Anyone
with an Internet connection and a web browser (no special
software needed) can attend the conferences using the above URL.
Tell your friends, tell your relatives and tell your neighbors.
But don't tell your boss if you are connecting from work.


Alex Heard, Author Of Apocalypse Pretty Soon

Also, as if that wasn't enough, the UFO forum special guest
resident author is Alex Heard through April 15th (or longer if
we keep him busy and lock the door <g>).

Alex Heard says about Alex:

My name is Alex Heard (you know that); I'm an editor at Wired
magazine and the author of Apocalypse Pretty Soon, a new book
about American subcultures at the turn of the millennium,
recently published by W.W. Norton.

A little background: I'm sort of a mainstream, "skeptical"
type, but about 10 years ago I started doing up-close reporting
on a variety of alternative, paranormal, and fringe-y topics.
Over time I developed a special fascination with millennial,
utopian, and futuristic visions, so I decided to write this
book. Working on the book changed me a lot. I don't necessarily
agree with all the theories I encountered -- that would be
impossible, since so many of them are mutually exclusive -- but
I developed a better understanding of why such concepts are
important to people. So the book is (I hope) entertaining
without being vicious. Some people will not agree with that
statement ...

The Amazon.com reviewer says of Alex:

Since 1987, New York Times Magazine editor Alex Heard (and now
executive editor or WIRED magazine) has scouted out Americans
with out-there beliefs: people who breed red heifers to hasten
Christ's Second Coming and pen books like The Dead Are Alive and
If We Can Keep a Severed Head Alive; astral-plane sky pilots;
homicidal survivalists. The best piece is "Welcome, Space
Brothers!" about UFO fans whose leader, Ruth Norman, "combined
the couture sensibilities of a drag queen with the joie de vivre
of a Frisbee-chasing Irish setter." He conveys what it must be
like to be one who sat rapt as Ruth spoke, "sounding like a
combination of Julia Child, Aunt Clara on Bewitched, and a bossy
little girl telling other little girls the rules of her
playhouse."

Come visit with Alex Heard in the "Alex Heard/APOCALYPSE"
section 12.

Don't forget to check in section 4, "Women in UFOlogy!" for the
latest in schedules and information on the conferences.

Eldon Garlock
Executive Sysop, Compuserve UFO forum
email- eg2@csi.com
fax- 708.575.1364

-----------------------





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   Mar > Mar 20

                Re: New Jersey Sighting & Mysterious Research

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:07:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:17:40 -0500
Subject: Re: New Jersey Sighting & Mysterious Research


Regarding:

>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: New Jersey Sighting & Mysterious Research Engineers
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:15:45 GMT


Stig,

Taken at face value, that's an interesting story.

In April, 1995, following a lengthy correspondence with the
claimed witness, I published the following report, writing at the
time:

"I have summarised this account using only the verbatim testimony
of the witness and have their confirmation that this summary it
is an accurate record of events".

[Begin]
I had a UFO sighting at approximately 9:30 p.m., in September of
l974.

I was riding in a car with two other people going down I 5, south
from San Francisco.

At about 250 miles north of LA, I saw two huge floodlights on the
side of the car. When we passed by the object we could see it
very clearly. It was about as wide as three cars and it was much
longer.

It had a stingray shape (it was shaped like a stingray fish). It
was round in front, it had protrusions on each side (like small
wings) and came to a rounded point in the back.

I did see the size of the craft. I think it was about 40 feet
long and 30 feet deep, about as high as a two story building.

It was dark and the color was hard to see but I think the color
was a metallic grey or black.

It had a blue light on one side and a green light on the other
side. It was a long time ago, so I could be wrong, but I think
the green light was on the right and the blue light was on the
left. The lights were on each side at the farthest point on each
side. They were at the end of the "wings" on the sides of the
craft.

The floodlights were right on front of the craft, similar to
headlights but brighter than daylight and brighter than any light
I've ever seen. They were brighter than high intensity mercury
vapour lights which are used to light up football fields at
night.

They were approximately one fourth to one eighth the size of the
front of the craft, similar to the size of headlights on a car.

They were on all the time.


It was hovering above the ground at about three feet. We
immediately pulled the car over and got out. There was no wind
and absolutely no sound.

Then, it slowly rose up and floated over the two lane freeway and
paused very still on the other side before taking off.

I saw the underside of the craft but it was dark so I didn't see
details. I do know that I did not see any wheels or landing gear.
I was looking specifically for that because I couldn't figure out
how the craft was suspended without any moving parts. When I
looked to see what was holding it up, I was astonished to find
that nothing was holding it up and it was not touching the
ground.

There were no lights visible underneath the craft.

When the vehicle went over the freeway, it had been in a
stationary position. It paused about 5 seconds and took off at an
accelerated rate, which was instantaneous. I mean, it was like
going hundreds of miles an hour in one second, with no
acceleration time. It travelled straight at about 30 or 40 feet
off the ground and then it went up into the sky and disappeared.

The craft made no discernible noise at all, even when it took
off.

It had two red lights on the back, they were smaller in
comparison to the other lights.

When it took off, it did so at lightning speed and was gone in 3
seconds.

I've never known anyone else who has seen anything like this.

Kathy.
[End]


Some comparisons between Jodie[J] and Kathy's[K] accounts:

J: Long Valley, New Jersey - August 21, 1982, 10:20 p.m.

K: South of San Francisco - September, l974, approx. 9:30 p.m.


J: My husband & I were travelling north on Rte. 206, heading
home.

K: I was riding in a car with two other people going down I 5,
south from San Francisco.


J: At this point, "the light" seemed to slow down, and we could
see that it was tilting up above us and that it was actually 2
large circular lights - side-by-side.

The "nose" (where the two big lights were) wasn't white, but
appeared to be glass.

K: The floodlights were right on front of the craft, similar to
headlights but brighter than daylight and brighter than any light
I've ever seen.


J: We jumped out of the car.. My husband proceeded to walk
(backwards)from the car down the middle of the road, staring up
at this HUGE aircraft directly above us.

K: It was hovering above the ground at about three feet. We
immediately pulled the car over and got out.


J: It had a smooth, white surface,

K: It was dark and the color was hard to see but I think the
color was a metallic grey or black.


J: ..with blue, green & red rectangular lights along the
perimeter of its underside.

K: It had a blue light on one side and a green light on the other
side. It was a long time ago, so I could be wrong, but I think
the green light was on the right and the blue light was on the
left. The lights were on each side at the farthest point on each
side. They were at the end of the "wings" on the sides of the
craft.


J: It was shaped like a stingray, with wide, rounded wings and a
bobbed backend.

K: It had a stingray shape (it was shaped like a stingray fish).
It was round in front, it had protrusions on each side (like
small wings) and came to a rounded point in the back.


J: It was moving no faster than he was walking, so it "hovered"
just above him.

K: Then, it slowly rose up and floated over the two lane freeway
and paused very still on the other side..


J: We calculated that the nose could hold about 50-100 people.
The wingspan was 3 football fields in length.

K: I did see the size of the craft. I think it was about 40 feet
long and 30 feet deep, about as high as a two story building.


J: It was mesmerizing in that it was travelling so low to the
ground..

K:..I couldn't figure out how the craft was suspended without any
moving parts. When I looked to see what was holding it up, I was
astonished to find that nothing was holding it up and it was not
touching the ground.


J:..with no wind, and barely any sound.

K: There was no wind and absolutely no sound.


J: ..this aircraft slowly turned to the south and then, in two
blinks of an eye, took off.

K: When it took off, it did so at lightning speed and was gone in
3 seconds.


J: No sound, no wind. Gone.

K: The craft made no discernible noise at all, even when it took
off.



J: Still don't know what we saw.

Jodie, meet Kathy.


K: I've never known anyone else who has seen anything like this.

Kathy.. meet Jodie.


James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com






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   Mar > Mar 20

                   Re: SPI News From England February 1999

From: Peter BrookesmithMendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:40:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:29:03 -0500
Subject: Re: SPI News From England February 1999



With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:


>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: SPI News From England February 1999
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:48:17 -0000


>People have been silenced in other Countries around the World
>for their beliefs or perhaps what they have stumbled across, and
>yet I hear on this list service the same crap from other
>ufologist's which is "I dont want to hear the other side of the
>story because I have already heard the version of events I feel
>comfortable with".

This is as muddled as Malcolm Robinson's remarks in his SPI News.
People can believe what they like. Not only that, they damn' well
will believe what they like, whether anyone else likes it or not,
and as far as I'm concerned they can shout their beliefs all day
and night. (I feel quite strongly about this. I recently published
a piece defending racism on the Internet, not because racism has
anything to commend it - as I pointed out there, if Operation Sea
Lion had succeeded in 1941 my mother would have gone to the gas
chambers shortly thereafter - but because I don't need or want
that personality in search of a disorder Jack "Boot" Straw to
decide what I am man enough to read, but I do like to know my
enemy, and for that I want his thinking to be accessible.

Free speech is not, I say again, not, the issue. The issue is
standards of research, and what standards BUFORA thinks it can
possibly be defending by giving Mad Max a platform. I am
comfortable with Dave Clarke's version of events because its
pieces fit pretty neatly, with one another and with what one knows
about the world at large. I am derisive and dismissive of Max
Burns' version of events because _none_ of it fits. Even the
"logic" of abductologists works better than this, because it is
internally consistent. Mad Max's story is a ramshackle edifice
even in its own terms. In the light of the world beyond, it is
simply incoherent gibberish.

Of course, BUFORA can present all the incoherent gibberish it
likes; it's a relatively free country still (although I _would_
like my pistols back, please), although I do wonder if these
days Russians, unencumbered by the thought police of political
correctness, may not, in practice, these days enjoy greater
freedom of speech than we do. And Secretary of State Jack Boot
Spliff is not going to interfere with lunacy like BUFORA's
because it's just the kind of thing to stop the plebs thinking
about all the people he's proposing to put into jail without
trial, and the assets of others he wants to seize, and his
bright wheeze that hearsay evidence should be acceptable in
court, and how the government should tell us when to put our
children to bed, and so on. (If you want to worry about liberty
in the UK, look at some of that stuff, old fruit.) But I should
be surprised if BUFORA really wants to be considered - or should
that be "recognized"? - as the foremost institution for
promoting unbaked rubbish in the land.

The muddle in Hale's and Robinson's thinking is not really about
Mad Max, but about what BUFORA should stand for, and what "free
speech" actually consists of. I might remind Roy Hale of the
analogy I drew with "Nature" before. The civilized world doesn't
censor flat earthers, any more than the Internet, or even our
own dear Moderator, censors Mad Max. But "Nature" would lose its
credibility as a scientific witness somewhat if it started
printing articles propounding the flat-earth theory, or Ronald
Pearson's whacky ideas about relativity. And for why? Because
these notions have no evidence, no recognizable mathematics, and
no logic to defend them, while there is a monstrous edifice of
evidence to the contrary to expose their shoddy thinking. The
parallels with Max's version of events in the so-called
"Sheffield case" are hardly difficult to descry.

>How would Peter Brookesmith feel if quite suddenly know one
>wanted to hear a single word about what his has found out about
>the UFO subject no-matter how small and insignificant it maybe,
>would that not be a little irritating, perhaps if such a thing
>happened would it still be worthwhile investigating UFOs?.

No doubt it would be irritating, but I wouldn't start squeaking
about freedom of speech, unless the censorship was
government-sponsored. Editors print what they want. That's how
it should be. That's freedom of speech in practice.

>Max will have his platform and his side of the story should be
>told, and for researchers in other Countries not to make their
>mind up until you have allowed Max to publicly have his side of
>events broadcasted.

One more time, all together now:

Max has already broadcast his side of the story not only
publicly but internationally, right on this List and no doubt
elsewhere on the Internet too, and his posts here are archived
on the Web for all the electronically-unchallenged to enjoy. And
it's not a matter of equality of opinion and "making up your own
mind". Anyone with a half a mind can see Max is making it up as
he goes along, and has the intellectual capacity of a gnat. It
is a matter of BUFORA supporting defensible standards of
research and conclusions drawn from that research, or not. At
the moment, it's not, no matter how often they may protest
they're letting Dave Clarke have his say too. That's just
weasely, although it's par for the course for ufology, sometimes
even for what claims to be the best of ufology.

best wishes
Petticoat D. Mithridates
Piano Leg





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 20

                           Re: Meier Case - Redux

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:56:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:31:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux


>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:23:46 -0800 (PST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux

<snip>

>So the role of bromine is now given equal prominence to that
>of chlorine/fluorine. The main culprit seems to be methyl
>bromide emitted in smoke plumes from agricultural burning
>because methyl bromide is used as a pesticide.
>
>I doubt that either one of us wishes to attribute all this
>foresight to Billy alone. He was never a chemist!

<snip>

Hi Jim.

Two years ago a group of scientists led by Tom McElroy of York
U. were lucky to get a spot for their spectrometer on NASA's
ER-2 (a former spy plane) which flew to the North Pole at an
altitude of about 65,000 feet. Their instrument detected about
three times the amount of bromine than was known to exist over
land.

Tom later learned from another group of scientists led by
Leonard Barrie at A.E.S. in Toronto that they found a natural
source for this bromine which originated at sea level. Bromine,
which is found in sea salt, seemed to ride piggy-back on water
vapour that was released through large cracks in the Arctic ice
that made their way up the troposphere. This discovery explained
the mysterious and dramatic depletion of ozone in the
troposphere over the Arctic.

Although man-made CFCs are still the culprits for ozone
depletion in the stratosphere, it seems that natural bromine is
the major main ozone destroyer in the troposphere, possibly ever
since oceans existed on Earth. Why would E.T.s warn Billy about
this?

Nick Balaskas







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   Mar > Mar 20

                      Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion

From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:08:20 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:35:12 -0500
Subject: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion


I was over at the Bell website, was interested in what Richard
had to say about his unfortunate heart attack. The transcript of
the show had the following:


BELL: And that's all she would say [nurse at hospital], that you
were in very...that you were in critical condition, is what she
said. And so in the middle of all of that, elsewhere there were
relentless personal assaults going on against you. And I mean
relentless personal assaults. And I was so angry, I just saw
red, with regard to the people that were doing that and I said
so on the air. Without naming who it was. I really didn't have
to in the community people knew exactly who it was.


As predicted: Bell and Hoagland would spend but a brief moment
on the subject and not address the real issue of the so-called
"personal attacks," aka the serious charges of plagiarism. Bell,
of course, saying he didn't mention anyone by name because "the
community people knew exactly who it was." After that, it was
all about some kind of assassination attempt on the life of
Richard Hoagland as some "well known scientist" allegedly warned
Richard of impending danger if he continued to pursue
radar-realted information. Great...another un-named scientist
involved. Where does the bullshit end...

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III






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   Mar > Mar 20

                  *** Jeff Rense Weekly e-News *** 3-19-99

From: Rense e-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:22:35 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:41:32 -0500
Subject: *** Jeff Rense Weekly e-News *** 3-19-99

:
:
:
:
:
:



           ***  Jeff Rense Weekly e-News  ***

                    The Week Ahead
                  3-21-99 thru 3-27-99

        Guests, Announcements, Week's Top Stories
                  From sightings.com


Jeff Rense e-News is distributed exclusively by Free Subscription.


                *** From Jeff's Desk ***

Well, it was another fascinating week.  As expected,
Sunday's interview with Gerald Anderson and Stan Friedman
was spellbinding and took us time-travelling back 51
years to hear what Gerald saw as a 5 year old boy on the
Plains of San Augustin ...don't miss this show in the
Archives.  Don Shmitt and Tom Carey visited Monday and
revealed even more new information on the legendary
Roswell events of over half a century ago.  On Tuesday,
Dr. Lorraine Day broke her 5 year silence on AIDS and
had many of you writing email praising her and denouncing
the continuing deception surrounding this worldwide
deadly epidemic which is now beginning a major assault
on the people of Russia, and soon China.

We got to hear Micheal Lindemann on Wednesday with
several hot UFO updates including the amazing story of
the UFO abduction of a wild elk witnessed by 14 people
in the Pacific Northwest.  Skip Goebel also visited and
shared the latest on his brilliant steam-powered home
power generating units which are, happily, available
once again after having been on six month backlog
(www.sensiblesteam.com).  Of course, there were many
more guests of note...just a few of the highlights.

On the website, I continue to post the most unusual
and important flow of material I can find anywhere.
Special thanks to Frances Fontaine and FNS for her
devotion to the search for reality and, of course, to
my brilliant webmaster, James Neff.  There is none
better.  If you are needing webdesign or consulting,
email James...

Some of the top stories of the week are alarming as
you'll see in this newsletter...lead by word that the
Bosnian government says it is planning for war with
NATO.  World geopolitical intrigue has never been more
complicated or volatile.  Before this is over, Y2K
might look like a stroll in the park compared to the
possible scenarios the planet is facing.  Keep reading,
keep thinking, keep questioning.  In this Age of
Irrationality, where few are ever held accountable for
their deceit and manipulation, we are constantly facing
challenges that require serious and honest discourse.
Place your trust only with the greatest of care...


                   *** TOP STORIES ***

        Just a few of last week's most intriguing!
                 http://www.sightings.com


  *  Japan Warns US To Back Off Or Face New Nationalism

  *  Mad Cow - British CJD Deaths Rise In Last Quarter
     Of 1998

  *  Vast Winged Conspiracies Something To Worry About

  *  Joe Firmage - Silicon Valley CEO Turns UFO
     Evangelist

  *  China Warns Japan Against Seeking Military Power

  *  UFO Elk Abduction Said Witnessed In Washington
     State

  *  Belgrade Makes Major Military Moves For War With
     NATO

  *  Milk In Diet May Be Linked To Autism And
     Schizophrenia

  *  Scientist Hails Birth of 'Rat Children'

  *  Y2K - The Ripple Effect

  *  Russia Claims 'Superchip' - Twice As Fast As Any
     Intel Chip

  *  Prunes Hailed As Anti-Cancer Superfruit

  *  Stunning New Data On 'Non-Lethal' Weapons

  *  New Ohio UFO Triangle Sighting Police Report
     Acquired

  *  US Prison Population More Than Doubles Over Past
     12 Years

  *  SoCal Concentration Camp Locations In LA and
     Ventura

Read these fascinating articles and dozens more at
www.sightings.com All stories are saved and archived
in our huge DataPages section

                       ---<+>---

                *** FEATURE ARTICLES ***

Canada's 2,000 Giant Forest Rings - What Are They?
               By Elizabeth Shilts
           The National Post - Canada

      From the ground, the backcountry of northern
      Ontario and northwestern Quebec seems like
      typical boreal forest: endless, dense stands of
      black spruce, tamarack, and pine, anchored in
      moist, peaty ground. But flying over the region
      on a clear day reveals a different terrain,
      marked with thousands of perfectly round rings,
      reminiscent of the bizarre crop circles that
      have confounded people for years.

The entire text of this story is at sightings.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Common Sudsy Foam Cancels Bio And Chemical Weapons In
Moments

      ALBUQUERQUE, New Mexico (ENS) - A sudsy foam
      created from ordinary substances found in common
      household products could be a first line of
      defense against a terrorist release of chemical
      or biological warfare agents. The single
      decontaminant is effective against all chemical
      and biological agents.

      Researchers at the Department of Energy's Sandia
      National Laboratories have created a foam that
      begins neutralizing both chemical and biological
      agents in minutes. Because it is not harmful to
      people, it could be dispensed on the disaster
      scene immediately, even before casualties are
      evacuated.


The entire text of this story is at sightings.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


                *** THIS WEEK'S GUESTS ***
                   3-21-99 thru 3-27-99

(Please note Jeff's Guest schedule can change due
to late breaking stories, etc)

SUN 3-21
     Encore:  Peter Robbins - 'Left At East Gate' -
     The RAF Bentwaters Story
     ...hear two NEW witnesses reveal their experiences!

MON 3-22
     Jerry Rowles And Roger Furry:  The Aviano (Italy)
     UFO Encounter
     ...hear Roger's stunning eyewitness account..first
     time!

TUES 3-23
     Graham Conway/Bill Oliver: UFO*BC Canada UFO Report

     Donna Seebo:  The ABC's Of Personal Empowerment

WED 3-24
     Michael Lindemann:  Weekly UFO/ET Update

     John Mini:  Mayan Day Of Doom This August?
     ...did the Mayans know when the 'end' will occur?

THU 3-25
     Grag Braden:  Need we say more?

     Second guest pending...

FRI 3-26
     David Jacobs:  Leading Abduction Researcher -
     'The Threat'
     ...don't miss hearing David's chilling ET views

SAT 3-27
     David John Oates Reverse Speech Show.
     The discoverer of RS does reversals live
     on the air!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jeff Rense Y2K RESOURCE CENTER
http://www.sightings.com/y2kresource/y2k1r.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MYSTERIES OF THE PYRAMIDS, self-published by a man who
was part of the team that entered the secret chamber six
times, took 2,700 microfilms, then spent a decade in
translation. The book they didn't want you to see twenty
years ago - republished, http://www.immunotex.com/pyramid/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Egg Store - An Excellent Y2K Resource Site!
http://st7.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?eggs+gGPk3g+index.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob's wURLd "Best of the Web":
http://RobswURLd.listbot.com/

Looking for a neat way to find information or unique
sites on the web that you just didn't know existed?
Read Rob's newsletter. His is one of the best scouting
reports for almost anything you could ever want to see.
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   Mar > Mar 20

                    Re: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:47:06 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:45:24 -0500
Subject: Re:  Elk Abduction in Washington State


>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:22:55 -0600 (CST)
>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>>On Monday, March 01, 1999, the National UFO Reporting Center
>>(NUFORC) received a call over its telephone Hotline
>>(206-722-3000) from an individual who identified himself as an
>>employee in the forestry industry in Washington State.  The
>>individual left a message, in which he reported that a team of
>>forestry workers allegedly had been witness to an incident on
>>Thursday, February 25, 1999, during which time an elk was lifted
>>off the ground and carried away by a very peculiar, disc-shaped
>>object. [*Click here to hear an excerpt from the hotline
>>recording.]

>You know, it would be interesting to hear Phil Klass explain
>this one in what I think he likes to call "prosaic" terms.

>Swamp gas, anyone?

>Brian C.

Hi Brian,

While we all know Phil Kl ass wouldn't touch this one, I would
like to take the opportunity to surmise what he MIGHT say, were
he to tackle it. There are two options:

(1)They are lying.

Or,

(2)The national forest service has been conducting secret tests
in that area, wherein large plastic elk are being lowered into
herds by small, remotely operated dirigibles. The purpose of
these experiments is to guage the reactions by the elk to having
plastic elks lowered into their midst by small, remotely
operated dirigibles. So far, the only reaction observed is that
the elk huddle together to debate man's intellectual superiority
over elk. Additionally, on occasion the plastic elk's tethers
break, causing them to fall to earth, which would account for
the apparent disappearance of the suspended elk. This further
serves to prove the fallibility of man's observational and
perceptual abilities.

Case closed, and Phil didn't even have to lift a finger or blink
uncontrollably!

Greg





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   Mar > Mar 20

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:00:59 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:48:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:32:50 -0800
>Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:22:42 -0500
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>Had to mention something here, forgive me if this has already
>been said: Arnold described the flight characteristics of the
>craft he saw as those of a saucer being skipped across water. I
>don't recall Arnold saying that the craft he observed were
>actually disc shaped. Please correct me if I am mistaken on this.


Royce,

Please read my original post that started this thread where I
cover these points in great detail by quoting directly from
Arnold. Immediately after his sighting, Arnold indisputably
described the objects' shape as resembling thin, flat saucers,
disks, or pie-pans. As to motion, he spoke repeatedly of how
they weaved around in a line like "the tail of a kite," and also
how they flipped and flashed in the sunlight (in one quote
comparing it to the motion of fish). At all times, Arnold
clearly distinguished between the shape and the motion.

In none of these original newspaper stories, or his radio
interview, or in his letter to air intelligence soon afterwards
is there a mention of saucers being skipped across water. In a
book he wrote years later, he also compared the motion to a
speedboat skimming the water and claimed he also originally told
newsmen that the motion was like if you skipped a saucer across
water. But in all the times that Arnold was quoted in 1947,
there isn't a single quote to that effect.

Arnold was obviously trying to describe the unusual motion by
making use of vivid metaphor: "like the tail of a kite," "like
fish flipping," "like a speedboat skimming the water." These
metaphors conjure up familiar visual imagery that people can
relate to.

But "like a saucer skipping on water?" Does that make sense?
Children don't normally skip their mothers' chinaware across
water; they skip rocks. It's a strange metaphor to use under the
circumstances.

Yet the metaphor still works because we know that the best
skipping rocks are those disk-shaped ones -- thin, flat, and
rounded. The metaphor wouldn't work unless the shape that Arnold
described also matched those familiar skipping rocks of our
childhood.

So maybe Arnold also said something like, "They were shaped like
saucers and moved just like you would expect a saucer to if you
skipped it across the water." That makes sense regardless of the
unusual usage.

Despite what one makes of the metaphor, there is no question
that Arnold originally used the terms "saucer" and "disk" to
describe the shape, not motion, of the objects he saw.

David Rudiak






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   Mar > Mar 20

                          SETI: Alien Search Diary

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 04:51:12 GMT
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:15:37 -0500
Subject: SETI: Alien Search Diary


Source: Discovery (Channel) Online,

http://www.discovery.com/news/setidiary/setidiary.html

Stig

***

Alien Search Diary

**

The world's most methodical search for extraterrestrial
intelligence has resumed at Puerto Rico's Arecibo Observatory --
home of a one-of-a-kind 1,000-foot radio telescope, the most
sophisticated listening device in the known universe.

Find out what happens every night from reporter Irene Brown, as
she tracks the progress of Project Phoenix, sponsored by the
privately funded SETI Institute.

Says Irene, the researchers have developed a device that can
listen in and analyze 28 million channels at once. "What they
are looking for is a signal that stands out on one frequency
alone, like one blade of grass standing tall in a field of two
billion shoots."

Read about what they discover below.


3.19.99

The first week of observation at Arecibo is drawing to an end.
Tonight the SETI folks are hosting a party at the observatory's
pool.

There is good reason to celebrate. Most of the kinks have been
worked out of the system the team uses to search for
extraterrestrial signals. One problem lingers, however: radio
interference.

Transmissions from Earth-based systems can overwhelm radio
signals from stars. And the Arecibo telescope is a most
sensitive ear. The scientists are finding even more interference
than they did during Project Phoenix's last run at Arecibo in
September.

The primary culprit is the U.S. military, which is beginning to
test a multi-frequency radar nearby to replace their old
two-frequency system. Telescope operators have met with Defense
Department officials to try and explain the situation.

"At best, we're stuck with the same old pair of frequencies (in
blockage). At worst, we lose more of the spectrum," says
astronomer Jill Tarter. "We'll just have to wait and see."


3.18.99

"We're trying to tell our right hand from our left," says
Project Phoenix director Jill Tarter.

Huh?

Jill's missing her morning jog to figure out if the Arecibo
telescope and a backup observatory in Jodrell Bank, England, are
on the same wavelength, so to speak.

The team looking for alien radio transmissions wants
simultaneous observations from the British observatory to verify
any suspect signals. Both sites try to lock on to a known
naturally occurring source of radio transmissions to check the
telescopes' configurations. The ability to verify the
authenticity of a signal is crucial.


3.17.99

"It's finally working," says astronomer Seth Shostak, sounding
relaxed and pleased near the end of his shift. As he talks, he's
watching over computer monitors that flicker with data from a
sun-like star in the constellation Leo about eight light-years
away from Earth.

A software glitch wiped out most of the previous night's work
and had forced Shostak to spend part of the evening patiently
charting sources of terrestrial radio interference.

Then it was on to the stars. Project Phoenix, as the current
search for ET is called, ultimately will look at 1,000 nearby
stars to try and discern if artificial signals are riding on
their radio waves. The team chases a few leads, but they turn
out to be radar signals and a satellite passing overhead.

Says Shostak, "For two minutes at least, we had a little bit of
excitement."


3.16.99

Work for the SETI crew at Arecibo begins in earnest after
dinner. They work a night shift with the telescope, starting in
the evening and typically ending around dawn.

After a chicken lasagna and rice dinner, ET-hunter Seth Shostak
and colleagues turn their attention to the sky. One of their
first tasks: to look for an old friend.

Billions of miles from home, the Pioneer 10 spacecraft rises in
the evening sky. The only known extraterrestrial signal in the
universe, Pioneer 10 is the watch to which the SETI scientists
can set their clocks. If the team can pick up Pioneer's call,
they'll know their equipment is working properly.

They find it, reports Shostak, but in only one receiver. The
SETI team uses two receivers to make sure ET isn't making a hoax
call.

Engineers scramble throughout the night chasing technical
gremlins. Shostak, meanwhile, tunes the receiver to empty space
so the SETI computers can learn where it's too noisy with radio
transmissions to even bother looking for ET.


3.15.99

The SETI scientists are happy to be back in their telescope
control room at the Arecibo Observatory after a six-month break.
But there's a snag.

Technicians have been preparing equipment for two weeks, but the
night before the team begins to comb radio waves for signs of
extraterrestrials, one of four crucial signal detection boards
crashes and dies. The backup doesn't work either, so an engineer
is dispatched from Puerto Rico by airplane to work on a
replacement in the United States.

In the meantime, Project Phoenix director Jill Tarter wants to
survey for pockets of interference from Earthly radio
transmissions. "They've done a lot of work at the observatory to
track down their internal sources of interference," says Tarter,
hopeful that more frequencies will be clearer now for any
detection of ET's call.


Related Stories:

*Eavesdropping on ET
*SETI@home


Where would you look?

*Play the search game.


DISCOVERY ONLINE


Pictures: Roger Ressmeyer/Corbis - Irene Brown - DCI







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   Mar > Mar 20

                UK Peak District 'Realtime' UFO Skywatch live

From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 04:38:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:24:52 -0500
Subject: UK Peak District 'Realtime' UFO Skywatch live


I am pleased to announce the launch of a new website dedicated
to the study of UFO/light phenomena and other assorted
paranormal events in one of Britain's most active "windows" -
the Longdendale Valley of the Derbyshire Peak District, a
beautiful and mountainous area of national park between the
cities of Sheffield and Manchester.

The Haunted Valley site, designed by local researcher Debbie
Fair incorporates both local legends and data collected by
myself over the past 15 years of fieldwork for my PhD at the
University of Sheffield.

The website features a unique "Real Time" Live Webscam Sky
Watch, where visitors can "watch the skies" above the Devil's
Elbow and take part in live skywatch sessions. The site can be
visited at:

www.hauntedvalley.com

or alternatively

www.ndirect.co.uk/~fair/longdendale/lightsinfo.htm

This is a unique project, never before attempted outside of
Norway's Project Hessdalen and should be on every ufologist's
list of favourite sites.

Longdendale is of course the home of the famous Longdendale
Lights, mysterious moving lights of the spooklight/earthlight
variety which have been observed by local people for
generations. They have been the subject of searches of the
barren mountains by police and mountain rescue teams, and have
been connected with a variety of paranormal phenomena from
ghostly Roman legions marching across the moors, the Devil
(hence their local name 'the Devil's Bonfires') and ghost
planes.

This part of the Peak District is a rich source of UFO and ghost
experiences and has a rich folklore dating back to the pagan
Celtic period.

The Haunted Valley's previous incarnation "The Longdendale
Lights Website/Legends of Longdendale" received the "Best of the
Web Award" and the "TNT 100 percent Weird Award" among others.

It is regularly updated with new information, and welcomes
contributions from new visitors....

Debbie Fair can be contacted at fair@ndirect.co.uk

For further information contact:

Dr David Clarke
National Centre for English Cultural Tradition
University of Sheffield,
Sheffield S10 2TN
South Yorkshire
UK
email: crazydiamonds@compurserve.com








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   Mar > Mar 21

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:20:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:49:05 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:22:55 -0600 (CST)
>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
>>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:40:32 +0100 (MET)
>>Subject: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State
>>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>Source:

>>http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/CB990225.html

>>Stig

>>***

>>National UFO Reporting Center Case Brief

>>February 25, 1999

>>Elk Abduction in Washington State

>>NUFORC Home Page

>>**

>>On Monday, March 01, 1999, the National UFO Reporting Center
>>(NUFORC) received a call over its telephone Hotline
>>(206-722-3000) from an individual who identified himself as an
>>employee in the forestry industry in Washington State.  The
>>individual left a message, in which he reported that a team of
>>forestry workers allegedly had been witness to an incident on
>>Thursday, February 25, 1999, during which time an elk was lifted
>>off the ground and carried away by a very peculiar, disc-shaped
>>object. [*Click here to hear an excerpt from the hotline
>>recording.]

>You know, it would be interesting to hear Phil Klass explain
>this one in what I think he likes to call "prosaic" terms.

>Swamp gas, anyone?


Seriously. Has anyone heard any more about this?

Is there any verification from first hand witnesses, or do we
just have a single account from some unknown voice on the
telephone?

We would all like some more details certainly. I need exact
date, time, location and so forth.

Most of all, however, we need some verification of this story.
May we presume that it is being properly and thoroughly
investigated?

Best wishes

-  Larry Hatch





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   Mar > Mar 21

                            Alfred's Odd Ode #295

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:43:03 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:19:35 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #295


Apology to MW #295 (For March 20, 1999)

I want to talk about some stuff you hold right in your hand. An
element of metal near as common as mere sand. It's as well known
as it's common -- it's thought vulgar, mean, and rude. Oh sure,
it changed your history, caused some pain, but grew your food.
It's been simmered into plowshares. It's been pounded into
swords. It's used for span in bridges over valley, bay, and
gorge.  It's cannon, gun, and printing press; it's built our
structures high -- so high they sway in winds they make while
scratching at the sky.  It made its mark in history. It's even
named an age -- called the "Age of Iron" as it's written on your
page. For all its notoriety it is humble now these days, not
respected and forgotten, but it's wrought in charming ways.
Forgotten is the *magic* of the way that it is made, so this
element of IRON earns respect it's _not_ been paid.

And yes it is, pure, magic. It's a miracle that's made where
there's something GOT for nothing. Yes! _Nothing's_ what's been
paid! The eggheads walk around it, gloss it over, and pretend
that the physics are beyond us, just at present, they contend.
Do they miss the bigger picture in the rage of some denial? Does
one plus one make three with iron, is shock that harsh and
final? One and one makes three (!) with iron? It's heresy I
speak! A free lunch that's immoral and offensive (?) -- it can't
BE! Conversely, it's this miracle that's the provenance of all,
from ships to shoes to sealing wax to cabbages, and balls. You
owe it your _existence_; it produces _all_ you are. You owe it
your reality; it's the stuff you keep in jars. You owe it your
survival; it's the draftsman of your dreams. It's iron that's
the _cause_ of every _thing_ that cools or steams. It�s the
reason that there's cobalt, or there's nickel, copper -- zinc.
It's the reason for selenium, or a silver kitchen sink. A
creator of ALL after it, this womb of stellar fusion, it's here
is where the magic's made. I assure it's _no_ illusion.

Iron's cooked up in a star. It's the last thing made by fusion,
and it's here the magic shall occur, the result of a contusion.
It takes a star of monstrous size and burning very brightly to
degenerate the nuclides that combine for iron, nicely. Stuff is
fused together for this miracle of iron. One plus one makes two
you'd think (?) -- but watch the magic happen. The iron is more
special than the stuff that made it up! One plus one is *more*
than two; it's fact, you look it up! What is changed (?) in
property (?) exceeding sums of parts? What cosmic free lunch
oddity gives eggheads fits and starts? How does _iron_ cool big
stars, and suck up all the fire? The star begins to fall into
itself, and gods conspire! The star shrinks in contraction
towards the center of a point, the acceleration's hellish and
the time slows out of joint. A point is reached where it gets
*hot* -- many billions of degrees, protons and electrons fuse
neutrinos -- cosmic sleet. This rain of fierce neutrinos bastes
the iron fusion made, and _all_ remaining elements are produced
as iron's braised.

And then comes the explosion that the physics must demand. The
star blows up and scatters all its contents -- understand? And
from the gas and chunks of rock, and iron bits galore, new suns
are born to light the sky -- around them planets form. On these
planets carbon stews, and seeded from the sky, the life that�s
all around us starts to live, evolve, and try. It's happened out
of nowhere, a result of iron's creed, and so explains these
words you saw -- a gift to you, from me. What's this to do with
UFO's? Well, iron made them, too. They're closer to the answer,
to that free lunch I construe. They've likely watched it happen,
put the process to their use -- understand its implication, and
so play it fast and loose.

Something comes from nothing, and the proof's in singing stars.
Iron's in the magic that is made to color Mars. The redness of
the dirt is such to teach us, as it must, that it _may_ be we
spin our wheels to work for dross, and dust. If iron is the way
it's done in every place but here, then it may be we work to
hard to stay this course we steer.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Iron is still a light element lowly positioned in a periodic
table we humans use, perhaps, to help reinforce our
infuriatingly pathetic, but arrogant (and obstinately
maintained) ignorance. Beyond the frontiers of the beginnings of
that ignorance silicon fuses with other elements to produce
noble iron in stars bigger than human imagination! Forgetting
its awesome potential in a magical magnetism, iron has an
elusive quality of seminal foundationalism that may not be
appreciated. As iron is produced in these numbingly monstrous
stars, its ability to suck up ambient heat goes up
exponentially, causing an implosion, and _then_ a titanic
explosion transcending time, space, and imagination. It is in
this explosion that all the rest is brought into being -- all
that is known and unknown, all that was, is, and will be.

Spider Robinson, humanist and writer, once wrote "God is an
iron." I would amend that slightly to say that God _is_ iron.
But for the miracle of iron's creation _as_ a creator, all that
we know, will know, and will NEVER know, would simply cease to
be.

Restore John Ford!


--
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more.
Consider Matter, Mind & Movement.
See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration.
Take a ride in the Teleporter.

Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
<Updated 16 March>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$250.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at
the fundamentalist's stake.








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   Mar > Mar 21

                 Photos Of Green Men At Wright Patterson AFB

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 04:52:13 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:21:45 -0500
Subject: Photos Of Green Men At Wright Patterson AFB


Dear list readers:

William E. (Bill) Jones, the MUFON Indiana state director has
kindly sent me some pictures of "green men", taken from murals,
still preserved on the walls of Wright Patterson AFB, originally
painted by captured German POWs during World War Two!

I have since sent them back to Bill, but I scanned them first.

After much fol-de-rol, I managed to get 4 of Bills photos into
two .JPG files, each of about 50 KB size. These are called
LGM1.JPG and LGM234.JPG. One photo shows Bill and secret contact
at Wright Pat.

These files are too large to post on an email list.

So, if anyone is interested, please email me at:

larryhat@jps.net

If you catch me before I fall down in a beer sodden slumber, I
will send them right away. Otherwise, I will send them, oh, a
day or two later.

Best wishes in any case.

- Larry Hatch









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   Mar > Mar 21

                 Re: C5 Galaxy's Near-Miss In Alice Springs

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:13:40 +1000
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:25:30 -0500
Subject: Re: C5 Galaxy's Near-Miss In Alice Springs


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail  tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian  Research Network Hot Line Number
                       1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************


Hi everyone

"Just a little news no big deal ha!!!"

On the morning of the 4th. 3. 1999 the Australian UFO Research
Network visited the Alice Springs Airport hoping to catch a
glimpse of the worlds 2nd largest cargo plane a USA C5 Galaxy.
The C5 Galaxy makes frequent visits to Alice Springs most
Tuesdays & Thursdays of each week, it is seen dropping off
supplies which service Pine Gap.

I was interested in getting a birds eye few of  this magnificent
plane because I love flying. We arrived at the airport around
10.30am "my lucky day" the plane had just landed, our group
watched for sometime whilst it unloaded its cargo "not being
nosey at all <G>". I must say the cargo proved to be very
interesting indeed.

Over the past couple of days we had talked to quite a few locals
and they told us, it had been rumoured that Pine Gap was
considering closing up its operation here in Australia.

But we think not from what we had observed "just an
observation". <G>

Whilst watching the plane unload we noticed Alice Springs had
Airport Security Guards different to Brisbane, they called
themselves The Australian Protection Service, their job was to
drive up and down the chain wire fence whistle the US Galaxy
unloads its cargo.

We found these guys to be very nice and one even took our
Hotline number. I was interested in seeing this large plane take
off  and I asked one of the guards what time does the plane
leave, he said around 4.30pm, and don't worry love you will hear
it. I said great lets come back later today and see this thing
leave.

We arrived back at the airport around 4.35pm the Galaxy was
loaded and almost ready to leave.

The crew of Galaxy waved goodbye to us all, we took their
picture and they took ours "really" and not for one moment did I
think it had anything to do with the Teashirts we where wearing
ha!!. The Australian UFO Research Network.

Time 4.50pm approx:

The Galaxy taxied down to the end of the runway reved up its
engines and started run, the Galaxy had only got quarter way
down the runway and there was a sudden engine shutdown then bust
of engine power. Robert called out there's something wrong. A
man standing next to me yelled out "look at this, that bloody
plane is going to land on the Galaxy "this is not good" he
started to do a count down out load, he counted "15 seconds"
before the Qantas Hawker Sidderley (HS 146} aborted its landing
and started to ver left banking in a easterly direction. The HS
146 would have been only 200 meters above the tail of the C5
Galaxy has it banked, I had the video camera rolling and was
filming most of what happened. The Galaxy made a dash to get
clear of the runway, it made a sharp left turn. The HS 146 came
around and landed. The Captain of the Galaxy was not impressed
his face said it all, they taxied back into the terminal parked
it and heated words where seen to be exchanged.

I was told later, the Galaxy was late leaving, and the control
tower was at fault for not giving enough time for take off. I
was also told don't worry it happens all the time "No big deal",
they'll just have to buy more fuel and try again.

Regards Diane Harrison






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   Mar > Mar 21

                      Eight UFOs Over Las Vegas Valley

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:53:59 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:32:25 -0500
Subject: Eight UFOs Over Las Vegas Valley


From: "Paratus" <Jobe@large.com>
Newsgroups: alt.ufo.reports
Subject: Las Vegas Sighting
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:57:20 -0800


Date: 4 March 1999
Time: 1730 hrs PST
Place: Hwy 95, NW Las Vegas, Nevada

Description: The observer was reported to be traveling
northbound on State Highway 95, one-quarter of a mile southeast
of the Ann Road overpass. The vehicle was traveling in a
northwest direction at a speed of 60 mph. Weather was clear,
winds variable from the northwest at 10-15 mph. The sun was
close to the horizon, behind the mountains surrounding Mount
Charleston and at a 45 degree angle relative to the observer's
direction of view. The observer sighted eight very bright lights
("like the lights of a stadium") stationary above the overpass
directly ahead. As the vehicle continued traveling to the
orthwest, the observer realized that the lights were much
further away. They appeared to be hovering 200 to 250 feet above
a low rise in the valley near the border of the Paiute Indian
Reservation about 5 to 7 miles northwest of the Ann Road
Overpass. The lights were reported to be white in color, without
definition, and in a pattern of four above and four below and
parallel to the ground ( forming a  =  pattern). There were no
navigation lights or movement noted. The formation spanned a
width of about ten degrees in the sky. One mile to the northwest
of Ann Road (and about one minute of observation time) the
observer made a right-hand turn onto Centennial Parkway then a
left-hand turn onto the service road which runs alongside
Highway 95. The observer again noted the position of the lights
directly in front of them, but also noticed the top row of
lights were beginning to become dimmer. Suddenly, the top row
blinked out. About 10 seconds later, the bottom row disappeared
(" like the stadium lights had been turned off"). At that point,
the observer estimated their distance to be about 4 miles. The
observer also noticed that several other motorists had pulled
off the road, gotten out and were also looking at the objects.
Curiously, nothing has been mentioned in the local media and, so
far, no other witnesses have come forward. These lights were
bright enough to be seen over the entire Las Vegas Valley, even
during the daytime. Yet, only a handful of witnesses appeared to
have noticed...and they aren't talking. A thorough check of
airtraffic, both civilian and military ( this area is about
15-20 miles west of Nellis AFB and is under a military air
corridor) has revealed no known aircraft in the immediate area
at that time. Anyone else out there heard about this?

paratus@lvcablemodem.com







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                 Mosley's 'Smear' on Gordon Novel (2-15-99)

From: Bob Soetebier <bikebob@mo.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 18:10:51 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:35:56 -0500
Subject: Mosley's 'Smear' on Gordon Novel (2-15-99)


Some of you may (or, may not) be aware of the fact that
notorious Gordon Novel -- mentioned in the brief excerptation
(appended below) taken from the Feb. 15, 1999, issue Jim
Moseley's no less notorious "Saucer Smear" -- was directly
involved in the "Black Forest" (Steve Lee) Colorado anomalies
case.  If there is any truth at all to the "wild rumor" (below),
then it looks like perhaps novel Gordo may still has a thumb in
the general arena!


The following excerpt is taken from...

   Linkname: Saucer Smear, February 15th, 1999

...and that entire issue can be found at this URL:

http://www.martiansgohome.com/smear/v46/ss990215.htm

 ---------------------------------------------------------------

[....]

NEWS BRIEFIES:

[....]

* We have a rather wild rumor that the top ufological
advisers of computer-whiz-turned-ufologist Joe Firmage are;
Bigelow associate John Alexander, who is also a non-lethal
weapons expert; and Alexander's very shadowy friend Gordon
Novel. Novel is not a ufologist, as far as we know, but he was
mentioned unfavorably long ago in some of the controversy
surrounding the John Kennedy assassination. How does this all
tie together? Not easily! ...

[....]

---------------------------------------------------------------








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   Mar > Mar 21

                           Firmage: Launch of ISSO

From: Joe Firmage <jfirmage@uswebcks.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 17:43:08 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:37:21 -0500
Subject: Firmage: Launch of ISSO


Hello friends,

The International Space Sciences Organization is scheduled to formally
launch its operations in May, 1999. As part of this launch, a completely new
web site will be opened at www.TheISSO.org. The new web site (free and open
to the public) will demonstrate the full breadth of initiatives ISSO has
planned and underway, including:

1 - A structured and organized publishing system for a new initiative called
"The Truth Files" -- a new public library of cutting edge rigorous research,
analysis, and speculation on extraterrestrial life, space exploration, UFO
phenomena, and advanced consciousness studies, from historical, scientific,
and theological perspectives.

2 - A comprehensive link and book reference library, and an organized
real-time threaded discussion system spanning the same subjects.

3 - An integrated radio broadcast schedule for "The Truth Files",
coordinated to run regularly both directly on the Internet and, within a
time slot of Jeff Rense's Sightings show dedicated to The Truth Files, on
syndicated national radio. Each program in the series will feature invited
guests representing the best of the best researchers in pursuit of the truth
at the cutting edge of thought. A wide range of diverse but well-grounded
opinions will be welcome, but only the most rigorously argued will be put on
air.

4 - Information about the summertime launch of a worldwide event tour
featuring a film produced by ISSO.

5 - A volunteer membership system which will begin to organize people around
the world who share the common desire to build a brighter future for
humanity and who have resources or talents to contribute to a better
understanding of the subjects studied at ISSO.

With this message we are opening our first semi-annual Invitation for Papers
for the "The Truth Files". We invite submissions from serious researchers of
cutting-edge discoveries relevant to history, new principles in science,
concepts of spirituality, and unusual phenomena in evidence.

The specifications for submissions are:

- Provide a one line title
- Include an abstract of up to 100 words
- Please try to limit to less than 100 pages in length
- Format your work as an Adobe Acrobat file
- The copyright remains with the author, though permission is granted to
ISSO post in "The Truth Files" library
- Submissions can be e-mailed to thekairos@yahoo.com
- Include contact information for follow-up

Evaluated by a review process conducted through a board of advisers, the top
10 papers will be featured as part of "The Truth Files", and each author
will be invited to address the public through a dedicated 3-hour ISSO radio
broadcast on the Internet and air waves. Each of these authors will also
receive a $1,000 honorarium from ISSO. ISSO will award the authors of the
top five papers an additional $5,000 each to be used to advance their
domains of research as they see fit. I consider this amount of money
symbolic of the importance, and not sufficient to be compensatory, of a
genuine attempt to communicate important knowledge to human beings around
the world.

The deadline for the first round of papers is May 1, 1999, and awards will
be announced on July 1, 1999. Each six months, this invitation will be
reissued, reviews conducted, papers posted, and awards granted.

Whatever your views may be, and regardless of whether you agree with me, I
respect you as equals, and I ask only truth. I hope you will join me in
supporting a new and genuine effort to promote a deeper understanding of the
remarkable times in which we live.

Best regards,

J O S E P H    F I R M A G E
Founder & Chairman
______________________________________

International Space Sciences Organization





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   Mar > Mar 21

                         UFOSSI UFO Collision Video

From: Billy Dee <UFOSSI@ufossi.org>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 19:37:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:45:00 -0500
Subject: UFOSSI UFO Collision Video


[Non-subscriber Post]

****UFOSSI Exclusive****

UFO VIDEO FOOTAGE!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`


Okay, we have just got back a video that we sent out to one our
people to have converted from PAL format to the U.S. VCR format.
We just viewed this video and it was to say incredible! The
video shows a large UFO over a city in Israel at night. The tape
was taken from a high rise apartment building that we estimate
was about 10 floors up and taped from the balcony over looking
the city. The UFO was roughly we would say a thousand feet at
most above the city. Quite low.

The 15 to 20 minute video footage showed first two UFOs that
were completely illuminated and stationary but at times slowly
moving over the city.

In a part on the video shows what appears to be another brightly
illuminated UFO coming in from the left hand side of the screen
and colliding with the other stationary UFO. We saw a small
explosion and it appear as a definite impact. The video footage
is poor in quality as it appears either a 2nd or 3rd generation
copy (which now it probably is a 3rd because our copy was copied
off the copy we got.). But due to the size of the UFO's and how
close they are the footage is quite spectacular.

We are amazed by the length of time this was taped. 15 to 20
minutes of viewing the UFO and Ufo's.

We are going to get some video stills of this up on the UFOSSI
website as soon as possible. We will let everyone know when they
are ready to be seen.

We were given copyright permission to show these on the internet
as well as release this video to the press. We will be doing
just that in the next few weeks. Also, we are the only UFO
organization given authorization to show these to the public in
the U.S.


So we are very excited about this and about the spectacular
footage we have.


Part of our deal with the concern in Israel for us to release
this to the public is that we cannot sell any copies of this
tape or make any money on this tape what so ever. We agreed with
the terms and condition's as we are only interested in getting
this out to the public to see, and not for financial gain or
purposes.


To all those UFO organization's that may be reading this report.
We will not and can not give any permission to give out any
copies of this exclusive video. Any one or any organization
reproducing copies of the fourth coming video stills that UFOSSI
will be distributing is in direct violation of copyright laws.


Hopefully in the near future the photo's and video will become
public domain. But at the present the video is not.


Do be watching for further up-dates on the release of video
clips and video stills on the UFOSSI website. The address of
UFOSSI is "http://www.eagle-net.org/UFOSSI". Be checking the
main page for the URL to the new up coming page which will
present and show the video stills of the UFO sighting and the
collision.

Thank You

Billy Dee

Founder UFOSSI
-----------------

****UFO SKY SEARCHERS INTERNATIONAL****
Website "http://www.eagle-net.org/UFOSSI"
Founder/CEO "BillyDee@ufossi.org"
Exec.Director Steve Wilson "Ndunlks@aol.com"
Acting Exec. Director Sandy Hornfeck "Sandy@ctaz.com"
Director Mike Wysmierski wufor@ldnet.com.br
"Special Advisor" for WUFOR
Director Donald Schmitt "Honorary Director"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
****ALSO VISIT OUR NEW WEBSITE "WUFOR"****
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And Don't Forget To Visit
Our other new website "Special Investigation's"
Linked through the UFOSSI SITE!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Visit UFOSSI'S NEW Product Page!
We are a NEW Dealer For Hot Dog Web Authoring Products.
We now have the Hot Dog Websuite and Express!
Don't know how to make a web page? Get Hot Dog Express
"Its Easy Enough For A Child To Do"
(Sausage Software Company).
UFOSSI Product Page is Under Construction!
See our UFO Videos and Books for sale.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"OUTER ZONE SHOP NET" Is Now Open!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





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   Mar > Mar 21

               Kaufmann Claims Army Tracked UFOs Early As 1942

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 03:03:52 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:51:12 -0500
Subject: Kaufmann Claims Army Tracked UFOs Early As 1942


Source: "alt.alien.visitors".

I don't know if these claims have been posted before, but I
considered them worth mentioning.

Stig

***

From: Art Wholeflaffer A. S. A. <smcqueen@cyberhighway.net>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: EX-GI CLAIMS THE ARMY TRACKED UFOs ON RADAR AS EARLY AS 1942
Date: 20 Mar 1999 21:42:25 GMT



Ex-GI Claims The Army Tracked UFOs On Radar As Early As 1942

On Sunday night, March 17, 1996, the Learning Channel aired a
special one-hour broadcast called "Incident at Roswell." Many
Roswell eyewitnesses were interviewed, including Frank Kaufmann,
who had a most interesting tale to tell.

During World War II, Kaufmann was assigned to the
Counter-Intelligence Corps (CIC). The Army put him through
specialized training designed to turn him into a competent
aviation mechanic and then "planted" him at the new Roswell air
base in 1943.

Why? Well, according to Kaufmann, while facilities for the
Manhattan Project, i.e. the atomic bomb, were being constructed,
Army radar stations in Albuquerque, Los Alamos and Alamogordo
regularly picked up unidentified blips on their screens. These
radar contacts began in 1942 and continued right up to the
Roswell incident. Kaufmann said the UFOs "would hover two or
three thousand feet in the air and then drop like a stone, zip,
right off the screen."

Concerned about the threat to the Manhattan Project, the Army
placed several CIC agents at the Roswell base. When the report
of a crashed UFO came from Brigadier General Martin Scanlan on
July 4, 1947, Kaufmann and his team of agents went out to the
crash site, which he described as "very rough country, no roads
at all." They found the UFO, shaped like a man's shoe heel,
crashed into the wall of an arroyo. The vehicle was split open,
and the team found four dead aliens...and one that was still
alive!

Kaufmann said the UFO was loaded onto a flatbed truck, brought
back to the base, and stored in Hangar 84, which had an armed
M.P. platoon all around it. The four dead aliens were laid out
on a tarpaulin before the ambulance took them to the base
hospital for the autopsy.

Apparently, there's a lot of information about UFOs in the U.S.
during World War II and the Army Air Corps response to the
threat that remains locked away in the Top Secret file cabinets.






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   Mar > Mar 21

                       On Ted Phillips' CPTR Web Site

From: Bob Soetebier <bikebob@mo.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:01:04 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:15:51 -0500
Subject: On Ted Phillips' CPTR Web Site


Exciting News:

Just wanted to let you al know that Ted Phillips' has just told
me that, in about a week, he will have a web cam hooked up to
his Center for Physical Trace Research web site.  The "Web Cam"
will provide "live" coverage of the on-going field investigation
of the current Southern Missouri UFO case. Be on the look out
for it at:

http://www.angelfire.com/mo/cptr


Bob Soetebier

St. Louis County, Missouri


    Tailwinds to you...            See you ON the road!

    /// BICYCLE BOB ///            bikebob@mo.net






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   Mar > Mar 21

                     UFO(s) at Roswell Before July 1947?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 04:20:44 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:22:37 -0500
Subject: UFO(s) at Roswell Before July 1947?


Source: UFOSSI (UFO Sky Searchers International),

http://www.eagle-net.org/UFOSSI/poss_new_roswell.htm

Stig

***

UFOSSI Exclusive Reports Archives

Updated 12-1-1998


Possible New Information about Roswell AFB Cover-up!

By Billy Dee.


[Seen here in this photo, is a picture that includes Master Sergeant Joel Denham
(he is at the far left, in the photo). Denham was stationed at Roswell, New
Mexico, Air Force Base in 1945 and mysteriously discharged within one month
after he was assigned there. In January 1948, several months after the famous
cover-up of a crashed UFO that took place miles beyond the base, Master Sergeant
Joel Denham re-enlisted and within a short period of time after the crash, he
was given a "Q" top security clearance rating shortly after re-enlisting.]


Many strange situations surround Denham. He told his son in a strained
conversation, some years after 1948, that something very bizarre took place at
Roswell. Denham had kept the secret, out of fear and possible retribution from
the military and government of who had warned him and others not to talk about
what happened that one night in 1945.

Before I go any further, I want to make this clear, that I was warned by several
people who are involved in investigations of Roswell, as well as UFO encounters
and sightings, to be extremely careful getting the information and telling it.
Well, I had made a decision after a few months of receiving the information, to
come out with it and let the public know. I sincerely hope I have made the right
decision. But let me make the reader aware, that based on what I have seen and
have been told, this story is the real TRUTH!

I for one, I am sick and tired of the military and the U.S. government's ongoing
cover-ups of the Roswell crash UFO. The evidence today is so over powering and
abundant, that one would have to be an idiot to not believe all that is going
on! And of course, I am not just basing my beliefs on Michael Denham's story,
but also from my own, and my family's experiences of UFO and alien encounters
since 1972. UFOs are real, and aliens from other planets, solar systems and
other dimensions are real, and they exist today. Now, back to Michael Denham's
story of what was told him by his father, Senior Master Sergeant Joel Denham.

Joel Denham's son, Michael, whom I recently met, and had the opportunity to
interview, told me of a strange testimony that his father told him. In our
conversation, Michael Denham unraveled, which I was to find out later, an
unknown series of events, that there are no known records of. It is better that
I tell you the story, that the son, Michael Denham told me. And the following
report, is that story that I was told.


Joe Denham's Story


[Go to

http://www.eagle-net.org/UFOSSI/shoot_to_kill.htm

Stig]


Blindfolded And Taken Away From Roswell AFB In 1945, Under
Orders To "Shoot To Kill". Why?

By Billy Dee.


That was the order that was given, to many military personal,
including Senior Master Sergeant Joel Denham at Roswell AFB in
1945. Why, and what happened?

On Nov. 21, 1945, Joel Denham was hurriedly whisked away and
blindfolded, as he entered a large military transport airplane.
The story was told by Senior Master Sergeant Joel Denham to his
son, in 1979, three decades after the incident.

Senior Master Sergeant Joel Denham was assigned to Roswell AFB
on November 1, 1945 to the 393 Bombard Squadron, 509 Composite
Group. Denham was part of the famous "Enola Gay" personnel.
Denham was part of the ground crew. The "Enola Gay" was the
airplane that dropped the atom bomb over Japan at the end of
world war II.

About 3 months ago (April of 1996), I talked personally with the
son of Joel Denham, Michael. Mike told me, in an interview at
his home, the strange story that his father Joel had shared with
him in 1979, some thirty four years latter, of an incident.
Mike, told me that his father Joel was hurriedly rushed off the
Roswell Air Force Base, barely 1 month after he was assigned
there. He was told that he and others, had to evacuate the base
immediately. As Joel told his son, "I didn't even have time to
take a leak." Just before Denham boarded the large plane, he was
blindfolded, and told by military police, that they were under
orders to shoot to kill, if anyone even so much as tried to peak
out from under their blindfolds, or even talk, they would be
shot on the spot. Denham and the others were also warned not to
attempt to try to look out the blackened windows, as that, too,
would constitute the orders, of shoot to kill anyone who tried
this. Security was very high, so were everyone's nerves. They
were not even allowed to converse with each other during the
flight.

The flight took longer then it should have, recalls Joel Denham
in his discussion with his son. Sergeant Denham said that it
felt like they were going in circles, through the flight. And
that the flight took a lot longer then it should have. Joel
Denham kept a daily diary while he was at Roswell AFB. I have
seen this diary, and noticed, that there is a void of any
entries just after Denhams discharge in November 21, 1945. A
strange situation here, is this. The discharge papers show no
reason why Denham was discharged. This is very unusual, and not
military procedure for discharging, as I was informed.

Joel Denham re-enlisted in January of 1948 [must be 1947 -
Stig], only a few months before the crashed UFO cover-up that
took place at Roswell in the summer of 1947. Denham was
assigned, upon re-enlisting to the 436 bomb squadron in
Carlsville in Fort Worth, Texas as an airborne mechanic, but had
also attended special weapons training, consisting of
electronics courses as well. He acquired the AEC "Q" security
clearance. I was told, that this is was [sic!] a common security
rating for those involved in top secret areas, such as nuclear,
and other exotic experiments and top secret technology. He then
went to Sandia base in Albuquerque, New Mexico in September of
1948. September of 1949 he was assigned to the 550 aviation
squadron. Then he was promoted to Tech Sergeant in May of 1949.
He was discharged in June of 1949, then re-enlisted on the same
date. Originally back in 1945, Denham was in radar.

Now, getting back to the incident where Denham and the other
men, were blindfolded. Denham Senior told his son that he was
very nervous and scared at the time. Denham also stated to his
son, that he was reluctant to go into too many details, as he
was told that the situation was top secret, and the men were
warned not to talk about it to anyone!

The security was heavy, starting from before they got on the
plane, and through the flight, as well as when they all landed
at another base. Senior Master Sergeant Denham, had never before
in all the years since the incident, told his family or the son
about this. Mike, Joel's son, told me, that the father was very
reluctant to talk about what happened, when asked about what he
did when he was based at Roswell.

So what did happen in 1945? Well, according to my research,
there are no known records of any high security situations
recorded that had military personal being evacuated from The
Roswell A.F. Base in such a fashion. I do not claim to have all
the answers here, or know exactly all that is going on. But like
I said, nothing is recorded in any records as far as I know. I
have discussed this situation with top Ufologists who have
studied that period of time and the Roswell Case diligently, and
they also claim that there just is nothing known that took place
like that.

I spoke with Don Schmitt, who is well known as an author of a
book concerning the Roswell UFO and alien cover-up that took
place in 1947. His research and book led to a well known movie
that was produced and has aired across the U.S. on TV in the
past 2 years, about Roswell. Don stated to me, that there is
nothing known about what Joel Denham had spoken about. This
leaves me with the conclusion that there are two possible
situations here of what may have happened. Was there a nuclear
accident at Roswell, or was there an earlier UFO and alien
contact and cover-up going on earlier then 1947 at Roswell?

Roswell AFB was being used as one of the bases for the "Enola
Gay"bomber, that dropped the bomb in Japan. This might explain
the high security measures taken at the base to evacuate so many
personnel, as there may have been an accident, or the
probability of one, was at an extreme possibility. If so, then
why were the men then flown in the plane around in circles over
the base for a long period of time, under orders from the
military police that were on the airplane with them of shoot to
kill if the men so much as even talked or tried to peak out of
the blindfolds that were put on them? Good question, huh? Okay,
enough for that scenario. Now, lets look at the other scenario
that may mean that there was an earlier cover-up going on
involving UFO's and aliens, rather then the known date of the
summer of 1947.

Recently I spoke with a retired Air Force Officer, who was very
much involved with most all of the top secret and covert
operations in covering up all information that the military had
and has about UFO's and aliens. I asked him if there was a
possibility of earlier UFO phenomena goings on at Roswell? He
responded to my surprise with a "yes"! He said I was on the
right track, and that there was things going on before 1947 with
the UFO and alien cover-up, mainly at Roswell. But he would not
go any further into detail with me in the conversation.

I have presented two scenarios to you, of this strange story
that was told by Senior Master Sergeant Joel Denham to his son
Michael Denham.

I realize that I am very vague in some areas of my story and
report, but I am still in the process of researching and
learning more about the Roswell cover-up and related matters,
and putting dates and situations into chronological order. But I
have given you what I have done so far, with the information I
have. I am waiting on more that is still coming in. There will
be more information and an update as it comes in, and as I piece
it together.

I tend to believe that a nuclear accident is out of the
question, and here is why I think that. If there had been a
nuclear accident at Roswell, then why were other personal left
behind at the base? From my understanding, not all of the
military personal were evacuated. Common sense would tell me,
that a serious nuclear accident, would mean that most all of the
individuals on the base would be ushered out, leaving only a
small number of technicians behind to somehow contain or deal
with the serious nuclear accident. That is my thinking anyway.
And why would the airplane that was transporting the blindfolded
men, circle around the base, if it indeed did, as Joel Denham
stated to his son. And circle, with the potential of nuclear
radiation in the area, which would put in danger the lives of
those men in the airplane, as well as the lives on the ground on
the base in jeopardy? Another good question? Something tells me,
that due to the hurried manner that the men were rushed off the
base into the plane, and they were not allowed to take time to
pack or take anything with them, and even given any time to use
the bathrooms before they left, that there was something to
hide. Something had to be hidden of enormous importance and
secrecy. And that something that was not supposed to be known,
had taken place very rapidly. This would explain the reason why
the men were rushed out immediately under the the highest
security measures. Yes, there are a lot of unanswered questions
here. But there is enough known now, that tells us, that
something extraordinary took place beyond the normal day to day
activities at Roswell AFB

As I said, I am still getting more information.

To sum it all up, it is evident, that something extraordinary
had taken place at Roswell in 1945, and to that question, there
is no doubt after what I heard from Michael Denham. And to
mention again, Don Schmitt, an expert on Roswell, told me that
there just isn't any know reports of any kind, on the record,
that he knows about, or has heard about, in regards to my
discovery. The odd thing about this whole report here, is that I
have not had one inquiry from anyone, in the past several months
in regards to this extraordinary finding, except for one person
a few days ago, that was going to talk with someone at MUFON,
that he knew very well. I for one, would like to see something
happen with this new information.

This report was my own. Just to let the readers know, I do have
copies of the actual diary of Joel Denham, and other copies of
his military records. I have these copies in my possession. I
have seen the originals. Michael Denham, would not let the
original out of his sight. I can understand that. But I was
allowed to take photos of the originals. I took video stills
with a professional cam corder. Being a professional in the TV
broadcasting field, the copy's came out very well.

The copies of the information, are available. They are available
for a price. Please don't misunderstand here, that I am looking
to profit on this, but a lot of money was spent in phone calls,
auto mileage (500 miles round trip to Denhams home). And other
related expenses. But what I am mainly interested in, that this
new information falls into the right hands, and preferably into
the hands of a top Ufologist, and or, a credible UFO
organization. There is still a lot of investigative work to do
yet. One of my copies has a list of well over 50 names of
people, taken from Joel Denham's private dictionary. If there is
a UFO organization that wants this info, then I would like to be
part of the further researching and investigating of this new
information.







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   Mar > Mar 21

                      New Official Don Schmitt Website

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 05:20:01 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:26:34 -0500
Subject: New Official Don Schmitt Website


Go to

http://www.eagle-net.org/UFOSSI/schmitt/schmitt.htm

A short comment on his new book, Roswell II, is found at

http://www.eagle-net.org/UFOSSI/schmitt/roswell2.htm

Stig






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   Mar > Mar 21

                           Re: Meier Case - Redux

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:41:43 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:28:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux


>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:56:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux

>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:23:46 -0800 (PST)
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux

><snip>

>>So the role of bromine is now given equal prominence to that
>>of chlorine/fluorine. The main culprit seems to be methyl
>>bromide emitted in smoke plumes from agricultural burning
>>because methyl bromide is used as a pesticide.
>>
>>I doubt that either one of us wishes to attribute all this
>>foresight to Billy alone. He was never a chemist!
>
><snip>
>
>Hi Jim.
>
>Two years ago a group of scientists led by Tom McElroy of York
>U. were lucky to get a spot for their spectrometer on NASA's
>ER-2 (a former spy plane) which flew to the North Pole at an
>altitude of about 65,000 feet. Their instrument detected about
>three times the amount of bromine than was known to exist over
>land.

>Tom later learned from another group of scientists led by
>Leonard Barrie at A.E.S. in Toronto that they found a natural
>source for this bromine which originated at sea level. Bromine,
>which is found in sea salt, seemed to ride piggy-back on water
>vapour that was released through large cracks in the Arctic ice
>that made their way up the troposphere. This discovery explained
>the mysterious and dramatic depletion of ozone in the
>troposphere over the Arctic.

>Although man-made CFCs are still the culprits for ozone
>depletion in the stratosphere, it seems that natural bromine is
>the major main ozone destroyer in the troposphere, possibly ever
>since oceans existed on Earth. Why would E.T.s warn Billy about
>this?


Dear Nick:

May I presume that you take the findings of Sitchin to be
true;  in whole or in part?

- LJH







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   Mar > Mar 21

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:17:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:03:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


Compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:11:36 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

While I wouldn't quibble with the criticisms here of Tim
Matthews's attempts to squeeze 1940s UFO sightings in so damn'
tight to the bottle of experimental aircraft, I am at loss to
reconcile Arnold's various descriptions of what he saw, and the
two illustrations he endorsed -

>The picture Arnold drew of the objects looked something like
>(and please excuse the difficulty of trying to draw rounded
>shapes using only text -- use nonproportional font like Courier
>to view properly):

>               ____
>            (        *
>            )          \
>           (            )         -==========-
>            )          /
>            (  ____  *
>
>              Profile                 Edge-on
>

--with "saucers". Nothing of such a shape has ever been seen by
me with a teacup on top of it. Following several vocations, I
have moved in the highest and lowest society on several
continents, and I doubt anyone anywhere has such an item in
their pantry, despite so many people living in such
unfortunately straitened circumstances that they could not
expect to inherit a decent set of Spode, and perhaps on occasion
having to resort to using cracked or broken porcelain.

Dave Rudiak did us a service in posting so many direct quotes
from Arnold, but the only one that uses the word "saucer" comes
three weeks after the event. Descriptions such as "bat-shaped"
conjure images of very strange delftware indeed in the Arnold
family home. "Flat like a pie-pan" is not the same as
"saucer-shaped".

What's apparent is that Arnold didn't coin the term "flying
saucer". Whereas three weeks is plenty of time for a feedback
loop to go to work, and for Arnold to mirror the media term
"flying saucer", even if it didn't come directly, or even
indirectly, from him.

It's long been recognized, or anyway maintained, that (whatever
the exact occasion, and wherever reported) that Arnold's saucer
image referred to the motion of the objects, not their shape,
and that the confusion occurred in the mind of a news reporter.
Tim Matthews doesn't seem to be trying to revise this bit of
history.

Until I see a complete copy of the Becquette report in the "East
Oregonian" I'll reserve judgement on whether he was the source of
the confusion, and hence the term, as so many of us have tended
to believe (and repeat in print).

If not here, though, just when and where *was* the term "flying
saucer" coined?? Either way, I'll be glad to see the record set
straight. Either way, too, it does seem as if the saucer image
came from the media, and it is surely fascinating that people
ever since have reported seeing what was first read about.

Naturally I was delighted that Dave included a couple of
instances of Arnold's analogy with the flight of geese. :-)

best wishes
Pelicanbeak D. Merganser
Wing & Prayer






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   Mar > Mar 21

                    Re: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion

From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:43:53 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:09:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion

>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:08:20 -0800
>From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion

>Great...another un-named scientist
>involved. Where does the bullshit end...

>Regards,

>Royce J. Myers III


Royce,

Unfortunately, as long as Bell has listener, the BS will never
end ;o(

Dan
UFO Folklore !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html





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   Mar > Mar 21

                    Re: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 04:40:46 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:11:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion


>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:08:20 -0800
>From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion

>I was over at the Bell website, was interested in what Richard
>had to say about his unfortunate heart attack. The transcript of
>the show had the following:

<snip>

>Where does the bullshit end...

The bullshit ends exactly where it begins, or barring our
ability to determine that ultimate beginning, at least where the
bullshit meets the road, so to speak.  It's about time we held
Art, and others like him, accountable for the content of what
they are selling.  Let him know it's not acceptable that he is
knowingly hawking BS.  And how do we do that? Don't pay him any
attention. Don't give him any credibility or publicity.  Don't
treat him like he's anything other than what he is, a snake-oil
salesman.

Art Bell unplugged, what a concept.


--

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>





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   Mar > Mar 21

               'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: Budd Hopkins

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:18:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:18:23 -0500
Subject: 'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: Budd Hopkins




From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

On 'Strange Days... Indeed' tonight, Budd Hopkins

Join co-host Jonn Kares and I on 'Strange Days...Indeed' as we
discuss Budd's new abduction cases in the Americas and from
his recent trip to Turkey.


The program starts at 11:00pm EST on

1010 CFRB AM - 50,000 watts 'Clear-Channel'

6070khz Shortwave

and you can listen via your RealPlayer at:

www.cfrb.com/cfrb.ram


To call the program 'live', dial:

On-Air    416-872-1010
          1-800-561-CFRB [all over North America]
          *TALK [local mobiles]


ebk





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   Mar > Mar 21

              Firmage & 'The Truth Files' On Rense's Sightings

From: Jeff Rense <eotl@west.net>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:32:27 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:35:28 -0500
Subject: Firmage & 'The Truth Files' On Rense's Sightings


Joe Firmage And 'The Truth Files' Come To Jeff Rense's Sightings


I am very pleased to elaborate upon Joseph Firmage's ISSO launch
statement and the special announcement concerning this program
contained therein. Here again is the ISSO launch lead paragraph
followed by the radio program affiliation announcement in item
3...


>"Hello friends,

>The International Space Sciences Organization is scheduled to
>formally launch its operations in May, 1999. As part of this
>launch, a completely new web site will be opened at
>www.TheISSO.org. The new web site (free and open to the public)
>will demonstrate the full breadth of initiatives ISSO has
>planned and underway, including:

><snip>

>3 - An integrated radio broadcast schedule for "The Truth
>Files", coordinated to run regularly both directly on the
>Internet and, within a time slot of Jeff Rense's Sightings show
>dedicated to The Truth Files, on syndicated national radio. Each
>program in the series will feature invited guests representing
>the best of the best researchers in pursuit of the truth at the
>cutting edge of thought. A wide range of diverse but
>well-grounded opinions will be welcome, but only the most
>rigorously argued will be put on air.

So, beginning fairly soon, one weekday evening each week, Joe
Firmage will be joining me on the program, much like Michael
Lindemann does each Wednesday night.  During these special
edition 'Truth Files' weekly programs, Joe will be introducing
special guests including scientists and researchers that ISSO
supports and believes to be crucial to the process of bringing
the American public, and the world, into the new state of
awareness and reality that Joe, the ISSO, and our listeners
strive for.

Joe's legendary successes in the corporate world have yielded a
plethora of deep, 'inside' contacts as well as the respect and
trust of many key individuals within the world of mainstream,
and eclectic, science and discovery.

This combination will yield remarkable new material and insight
that otherwise might not be available to the general listening
public.  I expect this new, weekly program edition to elicit
from numerous outstanding people a superbly enhanced dimension
to the exceptional information base that I have been presenting
and building for the past 6 six years.

- Jeff Rense










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   Mar > Mar 21

                     Nick Redfern Responds to Nick Pope

From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:22:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:39:19 -0500
Subject: Nick Redfern Responds to Nick Pope


Nick Redfern (author of 'A Covert Agenda' and 'The FBI Files'
has asked me to distribute the following statement concerning
Nick Pope. In light of what Pope has been saying over the past
few years about his place in the governmental UFO scheme of
things this should make interesting reading.

Nick isn't on email but if anyone has any comments they would
like to have passed on I will gladly do so.

Listers who kept up with the 'Pope On A Rope' thread should note
that his silence on the matter belies his 'behind the scenes'
attempts to cause trouble to a 'leading UK ufologist'.

When will ufologists learn to do things in the open eh?

Nick Redfern writes........

In the article 'The Fall Guy' which appeared in the March /April
1999 issue of 'UFO Magazine', Nick Pope specifically addressed
comments made by myself at last September 17th Leeds
International UFO Conference. Let's get a few things straight:
First, I have never denied that during his time with the
Secretariat of the Air Staff Pope got to see a number of British
military originated UFO reports (he described several such cases
in his book, 'Open Skies, Closed Minds'). What I have
consistently said is that his office got to see very few
military reports.

Morever, on the record sources have told me (and continue to
tell me - see my next book, 'Cosmic Crashes') that the vast
majority of military originated UFO reports (and largely those
filed by military pilots) are handled and investigated by the
RAF's Provost and Security Services (P&SS).

And on a related matter: in 1995 RAF Rudloe Manor (which at the
time was the HQ of the PSS) admitted that up until 1992 the P&SS
had served as the official co-ordination point for UFO reports
for the entire RAF; and morevover, that it had possibily
fulfilled such a function as far back as 1950! However, when I
conducted a tape recorded interview with Pope in 1994, he told
me that Rudloe Manor had no role to play in the UFO subject
(either from an investigative or co-ordination point of view)
and he felt that the stories linking UFOs with Rudloe were
nothing more than 'white elephants'. I submit that if Pope
*really* was at the forefront of the British Government's UFO
investigations, then he should have known about the Rudloe link.
But the fact is, he did not.

The most incredible fact of all, however, is one I have seldom
discussed. But I will now: When Ruldoe Manor admitted in 1995
that the P&SS had acted as the RAFs official co-ordination point
for UFO reports since possibly 1950, I began to make extensive
enquiries to determine the full facts; and when I did do, Pope
asked me to keep him informed of what I found out - the reason
being that he was as surprised and mystified as everyone else by
the P&SS's sudden admission!

On another matter: in 1997 I conducted a lengthy interview with
Pope and he informed me that during his tenure with the Air
Staff he attempted to make contact with his 'opposite number' in
the US Department of Defense, only to be told that the US
Government shut down its UFO investigations in 1969 with the
close of Project Blue Book.

However, via the FOIA, I was able to fully conform that in
precisely the same time frame that Pope was being given the
brush-off by the Americans, the US Defense Intelligence Agency
was sending raw UFO data to the British MOD's Defence
Intelligence Staff. Moreover, when I showed Pope copies of this
material, he confirmed to me on the record and on audiotape that
the papers in question did not reach him - yet he would have us
believe that he was the focal point for all UFO data in the
British government!

And there are two further points worth mentioning when it
comes to Pope's involvement in the UFO issue:


1: When I interviewed Pope in 1992 and asked him if he had ever
come across a UFO report that compromised national security or
the defence of the realm, he told me: 'No. There's no evidence
of a threat to the UK that I've come across.' However, when
'Open Minds....' was released in 1996, Pope made it very clear
that he considered the 'flying triangle'encounters of March
30-31 1993 were of prime defence significance! And these
particular encounters occurred a full twelve months *before* he
told me there was no such defence threat!

Moreover, it cannot be argued that Pope made the 'defence
threat' determination after I interviewed him in 1994, because
in 1997 he admitted to me that following the 1993 sightings he
sent a summary of the events in question to the Assistant Chief
of the Air Staff and, to quote Pope himself: 'I came to the
conclusion that this was of extreme defence significance!'. So
why, in 1994, did he tell me there was no such defence threat?
Was I, a member of the British public, misled by an MoD civil
servant, or had Pope forgotten above the events of twelve months
previously?

2: Pope makes the highly laughable comment that doesn't mind
people 'trying to make a name for themselves'. However, as
anyone who know me well will be aware, I have absolutely no
interest in 'trying to make a name for myself', simply trying to
put across to people the facts as I see them. However, every
time I speak to Pope it is not the latest findings with respect
to UFOs that we discuss; he is rather more keen to discuss his
latest appearance on Newsnight, This Morning, Talk Radio etc!
Now who's trying to make a name for themselves?

Pope is entitled to his views, as am I. This is, after all, a
free country (I think). But if Pope wants us to accept that he
was indeed for three years the British Government's very own
'Fox Mulder', then let's have a few reasonable and complete
answers from him regarding his ignorance of the still-mysterious
involvement in the UFO subject on the part of the Provost and
Secirity Services, and why in 1992 and 1993 certain UFO data
sent to him via the MoD by the American Department of Defence
by-passed him. I await Pope's reply with interest.

A final point to think about: in 1997 Matthew Williams and I
succeeded in tracking down a retired RAF Squadron Leader who
was, in the mid-1960s, attached to an MoD office of a far more
covert nature than that to which Pope was attached. Moreover,
Matthew and I were able to conclusively link the man with the
UFO mystery. He, however, told us that he was unable to discuss
the UFO work he undertook for the MoD three decades ago. How
curious, then, that Nick Pope can speak so publically and
vocally about his official UFO investigations undertaken on
behalf of the MoD in the early 1990s; however, a senior figure
in an elite MoD division is still unable to comment on his UFO
work undertaken more than thirty years ago. Something doesn't
gel........

Nick Redfern March 17th 1999






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   Mar > Mar 21

              W. Oz Alien 'Rescue' Mission - My Perspective...

From: Lawrie Williams <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 02:49:40 +1000
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:54:16 -0500
Subject: W. Oz Alien 'Rescue' Mission - My Perspective...


Lawrie Williams here, near Cairns in Far North Queensland,
Australia.  The stuff below is from

http://www.eisa.net.au/~ippoz/etrescue.html

The URL they supplied (way below) was worthless.

I'll tack on the latest if any when I go online and post this
shortly.

Lets not laugh at this. We cannot know if it is true or not.

Aborigines will throw stones at "gurri" men but they would not
hurt them or interfere with them in any other way.

I'd be MUCH more worried about Channel 10 because they were the
ones who paid $100 000 for the Wycliffe Well footage and it then
vanished forever!  (See Lou Farkas, Proprieter of Wycliffe Well
to confirm this.)

To visualize the area in question, find where the Tropic of
Capricorn meets the WA border. The site is SW from there. The
Japanese sites are roughly W from there and NW from there. Of
these, possibly disinformation, the coordinates offered were
"city like array of lights at 24.50 S - 147.04 N together with
another big city south of the Kimberley  Ranges.

I have to assume that "147.04 N" was really "147.04 E" but there
is a problem there as well, as that places it near Jericho and
Dingo in Central Queensland!  So I also assume they meant
"127.04 E".

That is certainly one of the remotest parts of Oz and is just to
the west of where secret stuff is known to be tested, so it is a
likely area for UFOs. The area that Mrs M is keen to get to must
be only 200-400 miles from Kalgoorlie (500 - 700 miles from Pine
Gap.) That is "nothing" in Australia but nobody should try to
get out there unprepared. Ideally you need 2 4WD vehicles and
LOTS of water.

I'm not laughing at this. There could be something to it.

The UFO's haunting WW in 1995 were apparently after water, or so
local aborigines told me and similar craft were later seen in
NSW using heat to suck up steam from a tidal inlet. (Chalker Oz
Files p 208) That was June 3 1995. For various very good reason
I would surmise they are Nommos or Varginha type entities. If so
as amphibs they must be in a bad way. And they *are* telepathic
because as I have formerly reported, it happened to me. And if
that makes me nuts, then I'd rather be the way I am than sane
like the rest of you lot.

My telepathic encounter was on the Barkley Tablelands c 4 am
late May 1995 - about 4 days before the incident above!  I was
headed west chasing them and they came the other way, spoke to
me, and I never even saw them. I was following up on a JJJ Radio
Report.

The other worry is the US Military, whom the aliens have every
reason to fear. They would be drugged and interrogated until
they dropped, then termnally tested with pathogens so that the
USA can "protect" us from these wicked demons. The Dark Ages are
not quite over yet, folks.

Depending on arrangements at this end that I can make on short
notice, and on ongoing developments, I'm preparing to fly or
drive to Kalgoorlie tuesday. Anyone who wants a guide or an
exclusive should phone me on 0740 97 2222 or email me. But I'm
preparing to do the trip at my own expense if need be - same as
last time. Maybe. Its a long way.

Lawrie_________

PS As at the time of posting the site has not changed, except
they altered "N" to "E" on the longitude but 147 is definitely
wrong anyway. More news tomorrow.

SNIP - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
->

Japanese Spy satellites show two Sydney sized ghost
illuminations in desert areas. Et Rescue mission Ends with
Mental health Department BUT a US Mission to take over!

Chn 10 TV Sydney - Perth has now entered into the search  for
"Flying saucers".  Americans offer $20,000 cash to help ET
rescue mission in West Aust.
----------------------------------------------------------------
--------- Story in filed order:

W.A.  Alien RESCUE mission. Sydney woman wants to raise $50,000
to save aliens in crashed UFO  in WA

The National UFO Hotline Melbourne has received numerous calls
from a Sydney woman who claims that "a house block sized UFO has
crashed in Western Australia desert country, last month" .

The Woman will not say how she knows about it but goes on and
says that there are 3 aliens seeking help from able people to
repair their space craft so they can quickly leave the planet.

They do not  want to get involved in a Roswell situation but
need a MIG welder, some water and lifting gear. However there is
a problem, its location! It is a 1000 miles from no where.

So if you want to part  with $50,000 or just help please call
the National UFO Hotline for more information  Ph:1900 130 331


Woman puts up money to fund ET alien rescue mission to outback
Western Australia.

A NSW woman has commissioned a team of experts to seek out a
stranded Space ship in Western Australia (with Aliens to boot).

Her plan is to find the crashed spaceship and have her
commissioned team of experts help the aliens to repair their
broken down flying saucer and let them take off and return home.

The woman who will not say how she and her colleagues know about
it but goes on to say  that "some of the Aliens have died due to
heat exhaustion and lack of water".

She says that "these beings are off planet engineers and as they
were passing by, they suddenly experienced some problems, they
made a forced landing but ended up in the desert a thousand
miles from no where".

She added that the aliens "do not want to created (sic) another
Roswell situation and prefer that authorities keep away and
don't get involved in this operation". The craft is alleged to
have been there for about a month.

The team leader "Doc Stone" says with a smile "it is not unusual
for us to make  an expedition like this but,,,,, I don't think
that we have ever been commissioned or paid to look for "Flying
Saucer's" before!..

No doubt,  it will be a real eye opener if something is really
there".

When is the full moon?

Sydney Morning Herald 17/03/99.    Aliens: let them eat
fruitcake

It's like our very own Roswell. (You know, when the little grey
men/crash test dummies fell to earth in New Mexico in 1947...)
The UFO Report Sightings Hotline sent out a bulletin yesterday
headed  "Woman puts up money to fund ET alien rescue mission".
The mystery woman, from NSW, flew to Perth last night to meet
local outback geophysicist Doc Stone, who's checking her
credentials (read sanity) before accepting her brief ... and
money ... to launch a search party for a stranded UFO. "It's not
unusual  for us to make an expedition like this, but ... I don't
think that we've ever been commissioned  or paid to look for
flying saucers before," says Stone.

The hotline's resident sceptic, Ross Dowe, says "Mrs M" is
desperate to find the crash-landed spaceship, help the stranded
aliens repair it, then send them on their intergalactic way.
Dowe, who's acting as go-between for the mission, says Mrs M
won't say how she discovered the stranded beings. "But she says
some of the aliens have died due to heat exhaustion and lack of
water," says Dowe. She also told him: "These beings are
off-planet engineers and as they were passing by, they suddenly
experienced some problems, they made a forced landing but ended
up in the desert a thousand miles from no-where."

It's the risk you take when you fly around the universe on field
missions. Dowe is restrained in his appraisal of  the situation.
"I reckon she's gotta be eating fruitcake".


Mystery UFO woman Now asks Police to Help Aliens.

The National UFO Report Sightings Hotline - Melbourne has
received more information about the "ET rescue mission", mystery
woman. "Mrs M" (Parker or Timmins).

Sources state that she has turned up in Kalgoorlie looking to
hire aircraft for her search of stranded aliens in a crashed
flying saucer.

She did not keep her appointment with "Doc Stone" in Perth and
appears to have decided to go it alone.

Local WA Police have advise that the mysterious woman has also
rung them up asking the Police to rush assistance to the
distressed Aliens..

We now have a map location of the "Flying saucer crash site", it
is . 1/2 way between Kalgoorlie and the South Australian boarder
(sic) at the western end of the Great Victorian desert.

"Mrs M" (Parker?) has stated to the Police that "people are now
chucking rocks at them"!

The exact location of the UFO crash site will be advised by
phone,  just in case you happen to be passing that way!

Anyone who wish to have the up to the minute or latest
information on this story they  can call Ross Dowe on  1900 130
331.

Woman turns up in Kalgoorlie.

Woman drops into Kalgoorlie aircraft charter company shows money
and wants to fly out to Crash site but Charter Company doesn't
want anything to do with her despite having the money. The fear
now is that she (or now a  group) may convince an inexperienced
local to drive her to the so called crash site.....

Cash offers to fund the mission are now coming into the National
UFO Hotline centre from around the world. One US person is
offering $15K-$20,000 in help.

TV Station looks into the matter! Sat 20/03/99

Chn 10 TV Sydney - Perth has now entered into the search  for
"Flying saucers"  and ET Woman.

The National UFO Report sightings Hotline has requested for
Satellites imagery of the target area.

STAY IN TOUCH Sydney Morning Herald

Hunt on for stoned aliens

Date: 19/03/99  by KENDALL HILL

The mysterious Mrs M, she who alerted the nation to the plight
of the stranded aliens in the middle of the WA outback this week
(SIT, Wednesday), has made contact. With civilisation, not the
Martians.

Mrs M has turned up in Kalgoorlie, where she's trying to hire
aircraft to search for the stranded tourists. She failed to make
her appointment with WA geophysicist Doc Stone, who was to have
helped her locate the crash-landed visitors. (You may recall
their spacecraft ditched in the desert about a month ago and
some occupants have already died of heat exhaustion and lack of
water.)

Understandably desperate, Mrs M has called local police and
asked them to rush to the assistance of the aliens. Apparently
locals have discovered the aliens and taken to throwing rocks at
them.

Bastards...

Ross Dowe, of the UFO Reports Hotline, says he now has a
location of the flying saucer crash site. It is roughly halfway
between Kalgoorlie and the South Australian border, at the
western end of the Great Victorian Desert. Anyone passing the
area is asked not to throw stones at  the aliens.


ET Rescue mission Ends with Mental health Department BUT a US
group may take over!

It  is said that the Kalgoorlie police received another series
of phone calls from Mrs M telling the Police that  local
Aborigines are now throwing stones at the aliens.

The Police got a little upset with her and asked Mrs M "to drop
into the station and discuss the matter so that something could
be done about it".

Mrs "M" turned up to the Police Station and was then committed
to the Western Australian Metal Health department for
evaluation.

Interest is so high with this story it appears that some
Americans are now looking to fund their own ET Rescue Mission
just in case Mrs M is right!

We will have more information on the American ET Rescue mission
later this weekend.

Japanese Spy satellites show two Sydney sized ghost
illuminations in desert areas.

The American mission connection has emailed a few times in what
one would call US Pigeon English. They say that are a group that
is well funded and they are looking into Mrs M's claims and will
decide if they should go in the next week.

(Is this American connection Intel? and did Mrs M get sent off
the Metal Health for this reason or is she eating too much
Fruitcake?)

Japanese are on the job now!

We are not sure what this means but some Japanese people have
turned up in Perth asking Geophysical exploration companies
about the area together with showing some amazing night time
satellite photos of Australia.

It is claimed that Japanese night time spying on Australia
satellites produced some odd images up north, showing a Sydney
or Melbourne sized illumination or city like array of lights at
24.50 S - 147.04 N together with another big city south of the
Kimberley Ranges.

We all know that there are NO Sydney sized cities in these
places so what are they?

What are the Japanese doing here, what is going on?

Anyone who has a internet connection can see the latest posts at
www.eisa.net.au/~ippoz/

Keep Tuned!

Regards
Ross Dowe

Further update information call Ross Dowe on 1900 130 331
at National UFO Report sightings Hotline.
Email           ippoz@eisa.net.au
Web site     www.eisa.net.au/~ippoz





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   Mar > Mar 23

                   Re: Nick Redfern Responds to Nick Pope

From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:27:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:52:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Nick Redfern Responds to Nick Pope



With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:22:00 -0500
>From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Nick Redfern Responds to Nick Pope
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>when I
>conducted a tape recorded interview with Pope in 1994, he told
>me that Rudloe Manor had no role to play in the UFO subject
>(either from an investigative or co-ordination point of view)
>and he felt that the stories linking UFOs with Rudloe were
>nothing more than 'white elephants'.

The crumbling but serviceable seventh edition of Brewer's
"Phrase & Fable" that adorns the Spelling Chamber of the Mage's
Tower here at Castle Despair tells me:

"To have a white elephant to keep. To have an expensive and
unprofitable dignity to support, or pet article to take care of.
For example, a person moving is determined to keep a pet carpet,
and therefore hires his house to fit his carpet. The king of
Siam makes a present of a white elephant to such of his
courtiers as he wishes to ruin."

Mr Pope, affable as he is, seems unable to distinguish between
an albino pachyderm and a mythical North Atlantic fish. Perhaps
that's why he can't distinguish between the re-entry of a Cosmos
2238 rocket booster or two, and a "flying triangle". In any case
I am not sure I should want to buy a used book or even the
Eiffel Tower from a man who can't speak his native language. The
failing doesn't give one confidence in his grasp of reality.

best wishes
Perceforest D. Marozia
Nijinsky of the Tongue






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   Mar > Mar 23

                    Re: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:35:35 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:56:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion



>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 04:40:46 -0800
>From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion


>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:08:20 -0800
>>From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Bell & Hoagland - Art of Delusion

>>I was over at the Bell website, was interested in what Richard
>>had to say about his unfortunate heart attack. The transcript of
>>the show had the following:

 <snip>

>>Where does the bullshit end...

>The bullshit ends exactly where it begins, or barring our
>ability to determine that ultimate beginning, at least where the
>bullshit meets the road, so to speak.  It's about time we held
>Art, and others like him, accountable for the content of what
>they are selling.  Let him know it's not acceptable that he is
>knowingly hawking BS.  And how do we do that? Don't pay him any
>attention. Don't give him any credibility or publicity.  Don't
>treat him like he's anything other than what he is, a snake-oil
>salesman.

>Art Bell unplugged, what a concept.

This is all well and good, and I applaud any effort to keep
those who have invented their tales from telling them again. But
how do we do that when we have Don Schmitt reappearing and
telling the same lies that he told in the past. How do we do
that when we have to wade through the crap of Gerald Anderson
who has again reappeared?

I simply do not understand how these people keep getting forums
once they have been exposed. And since we are all out there
listening to them, or defending them with bizarre
rationalizations, then aren't we all as guilty as the next?

KRandle







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   Mar > Mar 23

                    Re: New Official Don Schmitt Website

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:43:55 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:10:14 -0500
Subject: Re: New Official Don Schmitt Website


>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 05:20:01 +0100 (MET)
>Subject: New Official Don Schmitt Website
>To: updates@globalserve.net


>Go to

>http://www.eagle-net.org/UFOSSI/schmitt/schmitt.htm

>A short comment on his new book, Roswell II, is found at

>http://www.eagle-net.org/UFOSSI/schmitt/roswell2.htm

>Stig

This is the same lame piece of crap he was selling at $20. a
copy in 1997. It is a photocopied document filled with newspaper
articles photographs and little else.

More importantly, will some please tell how this guy can admit
(finally) that he lied about his job, his education and his
background, and still be accepted as a reliable researcher? He
was back to spinning the false tales in 1997, but there he was
at the International UFO Museum spinning the same lies. I simply
don't understand how this can happen. It would seem to me that
if you had been caught telling lies about all sorts of things,
lying about your partner, and telling more lies to cover the
first, that you would be considered an unreliable source. The
problem with Ufology, and the U.S. government, is that the more
lies you tell, the happier people are with you.

KRandle





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   Mar > Mar 23

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:02:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:34:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:17:44 -0500
>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

Greetings all,

>Compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:11:36 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>
>While I wouldn't quibble with the criticisms here of Tim
>Matthews's attempts to squeeze 1940s UFO sightings in so damn'
>tight to the bottle of experimental aircraft, I am at loss to
>reconcile Arnold's various descriptions of what he saw, and the
>two illustrations he endorsed -

>>The picture Arnold drew of the objects looked something like
>>(and please excuse the difficulty of trying to draw rounded
>>shapes using only text -- use nonproportional font like Courier
>>to view properly):

>>               ____
>>            (        *
>>            )          \
>>           (            )         -==========-
>>            )          /
>>            (  ____  *
>>
>>              Profile                 Edge-on
>>

>--with "saucers". Nothing of such a shape has ever been seen by
>me with a teacup on top of it. Following several vocations, I
>have moved in the highest and lowest society on several
>continents, and I doubt anyone anywhere has such an item in
>their pantry, despite so many people living in such
>unfortunately straitened circumstances that they could not
>expect to inherit a decent set of Spode, and perhaps on occasion
>having to resort to using cracked or broken porcelain.

>Dave Rudiak did us a service in posting so many direct quotes
>from Arnold, but the only one that uses the word "saucer" comes
>three weeks after the event. Descriptions such as "bat-shaped"
>conjure images of very strange delftware indeed in the Arnold
>family home. "Flat like a pie-pan" is not the same as
>"saucer-shaped".

Not to desparage Arnold, whom I met in an offhanded way in the
1960's (1965) my self being  a starry-eyed 13,and it was in La
Grande, Oregon, Arnold happed to traveling though and a friend
of a family friend (now long deceased) knew him and we were at
the LaGrande Airport. no, I didn't have any idea who he was
until I looked his name up in a UFO publication by, I believe
_life_ (yes things are different now.)

>What's apparent is that Arnold didn't coin the term "flying
>saucer". Whereas three weeks is plenty of time for a feedback
>loop to go to work, and for Arnold to mirror the media term
>"flying saucer", even if it didn't come directly, or even
>indirectly, from him.

I don't think it did, either,the news media traditionally "Gets
the facts first then distort them as much as they want" - to
paraphrase Mark Twain.

>It's long been recognized, or anyway maintained, that (whatever
>the exact occasion, and wherever reported) that Arnold's saucer
>image referred to the motion of the objects, not their shape,
>and that the confusion occurred in the mind of a news reporter.
>Tim Matthews doesn't seem to be trying to revise this bit of
>history.

I agree also, this needs to be addressed It's just that Tim's
overachieveing XF5U-1 had to be answered too.


>Until I see a complete copy of the Becquette report in the "East
>Oregonian" I'll reserve judgement on whether he was the source of
>the confusion, and hence the term, as so many of us have tended
>to believe (and repeat in print).


Well, pardners, if you go to Pendelton, Oregon thars whare the
East Oregonian is. Also LaGrande (just over the pass from
Pendelton has a (believe it or not) a University and an
extensive archive in the library if I get the chance (and I may)
I will  look  up the Becquette article if my Boss-Lady allows me
a few days off from the Oars.


>If not here, though, just when and where *was* the term "flying
>saucer" coined?? Either way, I'll be glad to see the record set
>straight. Either way, too, it does seem as if the saucer image
>came from the media, and it is surely fascinating that people
>ever since have reported seeing what was first read about.

>Naturally I was delighted that Dave included a couple of
>instances of Arnold's analogy with the flight of geese. :-)

>best wishes
>Pelicanbeak D. Merganser
>Wing & Prayer

In defense of, Arnold I think, like myself, having flown and
hunted and hiked over most every inch of Oregon and Washington I
really don't think he saw a flock of Geese, they tend to travel
at lower altitudes than Mt. Rainier environs, which is off the
Main flyways (not a long way however). I feel (subjective) that
he saw somthing anomalous-and couldn't explain it-even in the
most prosaic of terms.

- GT McCoy






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   Mar > Mar 23

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Kathleen Anderson <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 01:00:14 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:44:39 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>Date: 3/21/99 9:00:37 PM
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>Seriously. Has anyone heard any more about this?

_Yes_!

>Is there any verification from first hand witnesses, or do we
>just have a single account from some unknown voice on the
>telephone?

Yes again. This is not a prank and involves very reputable
people. Bob Fairfax, MUFON - WA State along with Peter Davenport
have gone down on the first run to interview witnesses and check
the area.

>We would all like some more details certainly. I need exact
>date, time, location and so forth.
>Most of all, however, we need some verification of this story.
>May we presume that it is being properly and thoroughly
>investigated?

I am sure one of us will give you all the details when the
investigation is complete. We are working on it currently. I am
not sure anyone wants to start rattling off info without
substantial verifcation. The people involved at this particular
time do not want to be indentified. The roads in that area are
also covered with a lot of snow right which makes getting around
the terrain a bit more challenging.

Will keep you posted
Kathleen Andersen
MUFON State Section Director
Seattle






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   Mar > Mar 23

                           Rare UFO Books For Sale

From: Frank W Tobey <sundance10@juno.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 05:17:32 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:04:20 -0500
Subject: Rare UFO Books For Sale


[Non-Subscriber Post]


Frank Tobey
P.O.Box 42094
Portland, OR 97242

sundance10@juno.com

Dear UFO club, group or organization leader,

I got your name and email address on the Internet's UFO section.
From a sort of master list of all such clubs and groups.

Simply put, I have two UFO books I am interested in selling to
the highest bidder.

(Note - this is not a spam - I am not a book dealer.)

1.      'The UFO Wave of 1947' by Ted Bloecher.

2.      'The Coming of the Saucers' by Kenneth Arnold.

Both books are in good condition (not mint) and are originals, not
reprints.

I acquired 'The UFO Wave of 1947' from the late Gray Barker back
in 1982 and Arnold's book at a Portland, Oregon used book store
during the same period of time, the proprietor unaware of the
book's pedigree.

I also have several other UFO books from the 1950s.  All are
original editions, (found in Portland area bookstores back in
the '80s), hardcover, in passable condition, available to the
highest bidder:

I Remember Lemuria - Richard Shaver

Behind the Flying Saucers - Frank Scully (rescued from a library
discard pile!)

Flying Saucers from Outer Space, Donald Keyhoe

The Road in the Sky, George Hunt Williamson

The Scoriton Mystery, Eileen Buckle

Flying Saucers Have Landed, Adamski & Leslie

They Knew Too Much About Flying Saucers, Gray Barker


If you operate a UFO club, group or message board, the like,
perhaps you might want to pass it along to your members along
with my email and snail mail addresses.

My phone # is (503) 771 2704.  No collect calls.  I have the
voice message service.  Best time to call would be between noon
and 1:00 pm Pacific time any day of the week.

Anyone who wants to look at the books prior to buying will have
to come to Portland.

Thank you.



Frank Tobey

March 22, 1999






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   Mar > Mar 23

                                     Re:

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:53:22 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:14:21 -0500
Subject: Re:


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian Research Network Hot Line Number
            1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************


Hi Everyone

Well it would appear that some American Ufologists may be on
their way to Australia with $20.000 to look for the alleged UFO
that crashed near Kalgoorlie - Boulder which was first reported
by 'Mrs. M' of NSW. The Australian UFO Research Network was
informed by the NSW UFO group that Mrs. M was reported to have
been taken to the local Hospital for a mental assessment. The
member stated these details were published in the Herald News
Paper today.

After quite a few phone calls from interested people to our
Hotline, I took it on myself to call the Kalgoorlie Police
Station [Time 9.15pm QLD] Date 22nd 3 1999 and talked to
Constable B Hand he stated he had no calls to date about any
crashed UFO. But yesterday he was told this lady from NSW had
walked into their Police Station and said she was looking for
the UFO that had crashed and she had bought all these car
seatcovers for them, constable Hand said he was told her car was
full to the roof with car seat covers and all where brand
spanking new.

He said Mrs. M was asked to wait at the Police station while
they called their mental health assessor. Mrs. M was then taken
to Hospital for further assessment. I was not told if she had
been released.

I asked the Constable if there was any truth regarding the
crashed UFO? He said "The only Alien out here, love, are the
camels. I asked if there where any inquires regarding the
matter? He said not that he had heard. I asked if there where
anymore inquires could he please give them our Free Call UFO
Hotline number? He said with pleasure. I informed him that some
American Ufologist may be arriving anyday. This information came
from the National UFO Hot Line via Mr Ross Dowe. This was also
printed in the Herald News Paper today. He then gave out a real
big belly laugh and said "I hope they like camels, love".

Conclusion: It would appear that Mrs. M maybe suffering some
kind of stress related illness and was taken to Hospital. I
would urge any American Ufologist thinking of making the trip
manly to look for Mrs. M crashed UFO call The Kalgoorlie Police
station for more details Tel 08 90 21 9777 if you don't you
maybe wasting your money.

Keep up the good work Ross - humm!

Regards Diane Harrison
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director








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   Mar > Mar 23

                    Australia Paving The way In UFO Unity

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:15:14 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:50:30 -0500
Subject: Australia Paving The way In UFO Unity


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian Research Network Hot Line Number
            1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************

Hi Networkers

________________________________________________________________
I would like to thank UFO NSW for all their kind words of
encouragement and again another GREAT STEP forward for
Australian Ufology.
________________________________________________________________

Doug Moffet a Ufologist and Rep for UFO NSW in the Southern
Highlands has forfeited his UFO Hotline and has placed The
Australian UFO Research Network Free Call Hotline number 1800 77
22 88 in his local White Pages, you will no longer be able to
contact Doug on 02 488 9**** his former UFO Hotline.

Sharing is caring and UFO NSW is doing it in a very big way,
they are the second oldest UFO group in Australia, and it's
great to see Australian UFO Groups uniting and starting to trust
one another and share information. Thank you, Brian, Wendy,
Anthony, Doug, Mike and all. We Australians are paving the way
for the rest of the world. Unite not fight, right share and
care.

Again thank you Doug for your support and trust may the phone
keep ringing <smile>.

TO REPORT A SIGHTING IN AUSTRALIA CALL FREECALL NUMBER

1800 77 22 88

Regards Diane Harrison

Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Free
Call Number Founder Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Australian International Skywatch Director






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   Mar > Mar 23

                           Re: Meier Case - Redux

From: Anthony Cynor <acynor@fullerton.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:53:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:54:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux


>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:41:43 -0800
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux

The original warnings were with regard to the various nations
that had been planning to use methyl bromide  ("brom gas"
Semjase) to punch holes in the ozone layer over enemy territory.
This activity apparently would cause a global disaster probably
due to collapse of the biosphere.  That is the reason for the
warnings.

Tony





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   Mar > Mar 23

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:04:30 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:10:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:17:44 -0500
>Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:03:23 -0500
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>While I wouldn't quibble with the criticisms here of Tim
>Matthews's attempts to squeeze 1940s UFO sightings in so damn'
>tight to the bottle of experimental aircraft,

That apparently is going to be the last thing we agree on.

>I am at loss to reconcile Arnold's various descriptions of what
>he saw, and the two illustrations he endorsed -

What's so difficult to reconcile? All his initial descriptions
were of a thin, flat, disc-like objects, rounded in front, but
not in back. _Later_ he added that the lead object was
differently shaped, being wider and crescent- like, or something
like a flying wing. That's the source of the two different
descriptions. He was describing two different shapes: 8 objects
were of one shape, 1 was of another.

>The picture Arnold drew of the objects looked something like

<snip>

>       ____
>     (    *
>     )     \
>     (      )     -==========-
>     )     /
>     ( ____ *
>
>      Profile         Edge-on
>

>--with "saucers". Nothing of such a shape has ever been seen by
>me with a teacup on top of it.

That's why Arnold said _like_ a saucer or _like_ a disk or
_like_ a piepan, i.e., thin, flat, and rounded, words he also
used. But Arnold also emphasized that they didn't appear to be
completely round, but were chopped in the back and seemed to
come to something like a point. He also used the term _somewhat_
batshaped to describe the same thing. That's what the trailing
edge in my text drawing is trying to depict. It's based on the
sketch Arnold made of the shape in his letter to air
intelligence on July 12, 1947.

>Following several vocations, I
>have moved in the highest and lowest society on several
>continents, and I doubt anyone anywhere has such an item in
>their pantry, despite so many people living in such
>unfortunately straitened circumstances that they could not
>expect to inherit a decent set of Spode, and perhaps on occasion
>having to resort to using cracked or broken porcelain.

I think Brookesmith is just trying to be humorous. Or is he
trying to play the semantic debunking game that "saucer-like"
can only mean perfectly circular?

>Dave Rudiak did us a service in posting so many direct quotes
>from Arnold, but the only one that uses the word "saucer" comes
>three weeks after the event.

Nonsense! Go reread the quotes. How about the Norman Oklahoma
Transcript, June 26: "They were shaped like saucers and were so
thin I could barely see them..."

Or the Bill Bequette article of June 26: "He also described the
objects as "saucer-like" and their motion "like a fish flipping
in the sun.""

The quoted "saucer-like" was the _shape_, followed by the
description of motion.

Is that three weeks later?


>Descriptions such as "bat-shaped" conjure images of very
>strange delftware indeed in the Arnold family home.

The complete quote in the Pendleton East Oregonian, June 26,
was: "[Arnold] described the objects as 'flat like a pie-pan
and somewhat bat-shaped.'"

Here were similar quotes:

Portland Oregon Journal, June 27: "They were half-moon shaped,
oval in front and convex in the rear.  ...There were no bulges
or cowlings; they looked like a big flat disk."

Radio interview, June 25: "They looked something like a pie
plate that was cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in
the rear."

Then throw in his drawing. The objects were circular in front
but not in the rear. It's all the same description but using
different words. "Somewhat bat shaped" referred to the shape of
the trailing edge.

>"Flat like a pie-pan" is not the same as "saucer-shaped".

Good grief! So Brookesmith _is_ playing word games. How about
where Arnold said in Chicago Tribune, June 25: "They were
silvery and shiny and seemed to be shaped like a pie plate."

"_Shaped_ like a pie plate." Get it?

Or how about his radio interview of June 25? "They looked
something like a pie plate that was cut in half with a sort of a
convex triangle in the rear."

"Looked something like a pie plate." Get it?

If Brookesmith would bother to read the quotes again and show
some basic grasp of the English langauge, he might notice that
Arnold was saying they were similar to a pie plate shape in
_both_ flatness and roundness, except for the rear end which
wasn't round.

>What's apparent is that Arnold didn't coin the term "flying
>saucer".

No, but Arnold _did_ use the term "saucer" to describe the basic
_shape_, just like he used the terms "disk" or "pie plate" or
"pie pan." The newspapers added the "flying" part, but as we
shall see, not immediately as you seem to think.

>Whereas three weeks is plenty of time for a feedback loop to go
>to work, and for Arnold to mirror the media term "flying
>saucer", even if it didn't come directly, or even indirectly,
from him.

More rubbish! What's the matter with you Brits anyway? Are you
speaking something other than English these days? There was no
"three week feedback loop." Arnold was using "saucer" and "disc"
and "pie plate" to describe the basic shape from day one.
Sheesh! Learn to read.

>It's long been recognized, or anyway maintained, that (whatever
>the exact occasion, and wherever reported) that Arnold's saucer
>image referred to the motion of the objects, not their shape,
>and that the confusion occurred in the mind of a news reporter.

Yes, I've read that in many books as well, including
Brookesmith's. Obviously it's wrong, isn't it?

>Tim Matthews doesn't seem to be trying to revise this bit of
>history.

No, I didn't accuse him of that. In fact, I said many were
guilty of the same error. There is no historical record from
1947 of Arnold saying that the motion was like saucers skipping
on water. There were _other_ descriptions of motion, such as
weaving "like the tail of a kite," or of being "like fish
flipping in the sun." It is clear from the various quotes that
Arnold was most struck by how they seemed to fly in serial
formation like they were tied together (hence "like the tail of
a kite").  When one moved, the others followed suit.

Whether Arnold might also have described a skipping motion in
1947 like saucers on water is really a mute point anyway,
because Arnold very clearly was describing the _shape_ as
saucer-like, or disk-like, or pie-pan-like: thin, flat, and
rounded, except from the rear end which wasn't rounded.

Get it?

>Until I see a complete copy of the Becquette report in the "East
>Oregonian" I'll reserve judgement on whether he was the source of
>the confusion, and hence the term, as so many of us have tended
>to believe (and repeat in print).

To again quote from that article of June 26 by Bequette: "He
also described the objects as "saucer-like" and their motion
"like a fish flipping in the sun.""

Note the clear distinction between the shape and the motion.
Bequette also quoted Arnold as saying the shape was
"saucer-like," the exact same term Arnold used several times in
his written report of July 12.

(Bequette never used the term "flying saucer" in this article.
It was two more days before he did use the term "flying disc,"
but not "flying saucer.")

Now compare this to the Norman Oklahoma transcript of the exact
same day as the Bequette article (June 26): "They were shaped
like saucers and were so thin I could barely see them..."

How can there be any doubt about whether or not Arnold used the
term "saucer" as a description of the _shape_?

>If not here, though, just when and where *was* the term "flying
>saucer" coined??

Not by Bill Bequette in is June 26 article. If you want a
sampling of newspaper headlines and descriptions immediately
after the sighting, here are some:

June 25:

Pendleton East Oregonian (Bequette's paper): "Impossible! Maybe,
But Seein' is Believin', Says Flyer" Uses the term "saucer-like
aircraft" once. No use of "flying disk" or "flying saucer."

June 26:

Portland Oregon Journal (Associated Press): "Flying Disk Mystery
Grows -- 2 Midwest Men Support Boise Flier -- Descriptions Tally
On Fast-Flying Pie-Pan Objects" First use of "Flying Disk" that
I can find. Not used in body of article. No use of "flying
saucer" in article.

Portland East Oregonian (Bill Bequette) : "Boise Flyer Maintains
He Saw 'Em -- Kenneth Arnold Sticks to Story of Seeing Nine
Mysterious Objects Flying At Speed of 1200 Miles An Hour Over
Mountains"  No use of "flying disk" or "flying saucer."

Portland Oregon Journal (AP): "Whizzing 'Pie-Pan' Plane Report
Gets Army Skepticism" No use of "flying disk" or "flying
saucer." At one point uses "planes" for objects.

Chicago Tribune (Special): "Sees Mystery Aerial 'Train' 5 Miles
Long" Opening paragraph refers to "nine units." No use of
"flying disk" or "flying saucer"

Salem Oregon Statesman (AP): "Mystery Missiles Reported Over
Cascades -- Pilot Sees 'Disk-Shaped Objects' Flying at 1200
Miles per Hour Above Western Washington Range. No "flying disk"
or "flying saucer" used. At one point reports Arnold "said they
were bright, saucer-like objects -- he called them 'aircraft'"

Portland Oregonian (AP): "Flyer Sights Strange Group Moving at
1200-Mile Speed" No use of "flying disk" or "flying saucer"

Tacoma News Tribune (AP): "Experts Skeptical on Huge Pie Plate
Missiles" Like the other AP articles, no use of "flying disk" or
"flying saucer."

Yakima (Washington) Daily Republic (AP) : "Eyebrows Lifted At
Pilot's Story -- Boise Businessman Reports Sighting Saucer-Like
Objects Over Cascades

Los Angeles Times (AP): "Pilot Tells of Seeing Saucerlike
Objects Flying at 1200 M.P.H." No "flying disc" or "flying
saucer."

Seattle Post-Intelligencer (AP): "Flying Reports: Mystery Disks
Hurtling in Sky" No "flying disk" or "flying saucer." Opening
sentence mentions "saucer- like objects."

Santa Fe New Mexican (United Press): "Pilot Reports
Saucer-Shaped Planes Flying 1,200 M.P.H" No "fllying saucers" or
"flying discs." Uses ""saucer- shaped" planes" in opening
paragraph.  Also, ""They were shaped like saucers and were so
thin I could barely see them," he told Jack Whitman, a local
businessman."

June 27:

Portland Oregonian (Tom Caton): "Officials Doubt Story of
Phantom Air Fleet" Opening paragraph refers to Arnold's "nine
mirrorlike 'aircraft'." At end of article, mentions a sighting
by Mrs. Elma Shingler near Bremerton, Wash. "The 'flying
saucers' appeared twice over her home, she said."

Portland Oregon Journal (AP): "Picture of '7 Dots' Proves Latest
in Flying Disk Case" Uses "flying saucers" in opening sentence
and one more time later in article.

East Oregonian: (AP) "' Flying Disc' Mystery More Involved" Uses
"flying discs" in opening sentence, nowhere else. No "flying
saucers"

East Oregonian (Bill Bequette article): "He'll Get Proof Next
Time, Flyer Declares" No "flying disc" or "flying saucers."
Mentions Arnold saw "saucer- like 'planes'."

Tacoma News Tribune (Associated Press): "Experts Skeptical On
Huge Pie Plate Missiles" No use of "flying disk" or "flying
saucer" in article.

June 28:

East Oregonian (Bill Bequette): "Experts Reach Deep Into Bag to
Explain 'Flying Discs'" First sentence uses the term "so-called
'flying discs'" No "flying saucers" used. This is the first time
an article by Bequette used even "flying disc."

So the term "flying disk" didn't make its first appearance until
June 26, and then just barely. Most papers didn't use it. (In my
sampling, only 1 of 11 used it.) "Flying saucer" didn't appear
until the next day, and then only modestly. (2 of 5, neither in
headline) Bill Bequette apparently did not invent the terms,
again contrary to the way the history is usually reported.

While it would require examining a great many more newspapers
than this to properly trace the evolution of the terms "flying
disk" and "flying saucer" in the press, it is pretty clear that
there were no or very few screaming headlines early on of
"Flying Saucers" that the psychosocial skeptics seem to think
existed. There were a few "flying disc" headlines.  There were
probably at least as many headlines that also used "pie-pan,"
"pie-plate," and simple "missiles."

A majority of the newspapers didn't even mention the Arnold
sighting immediately after it happened. My own readings of the
period newspapers indicate that "flying saucer" and "flying
disk" didn't really seem to come into their own until very early
July, between about July 2 and July 5. Then you see the terms
used all the time in the headlines and bodies of the articles.

Between about June 28 and July 2, however, there was very little
reporting on the subject. The press wasn't really pushing this
the entire time, contrary to what you might think. You even see
columns ridiculing the subject. People were not being whipped
into a hysteria. July 5 was probably the real watershed date in
which a substantial majority of the newspapers finally carried
"flying saucer" or "flying disk" stories. The widely reported
July 4 United Airline Idaho sighting of Cpt. Smith and two other
crew-members of 9 more disk-like objects seemed to be the straw
that broke the camel's back. Ironically, Smith had been one of
those skeptical experts quoted in some of the June 27 articles.

>Either way, I'll be glad to see the record set straight. Either
way, too, it does seem >as if the saucer image came from the
media,

How long are you going to play that silly skepti-bunker game
Peter? First you say you'll be glad to set the record straight.
Setting the record straight would mean that you acknowledge
Arnold described the shape as saucer-like or disc-like right
from the beginning and the media was merely quoting him.

Then you contradict yourself by saying the "saucer image came
from the media," meaning you think the media invented the
description. Therefore you have no intention of "setting the
record straight."

The media by itself didn't create the saucer or disc-shape
description. These descriptions of shape came initially from
Arnold and were immediately followed within a few days by
reports from other people who said they had seen similar
objects, including before Arnold. In a few newspapers, the terms
"Flying disk" and "flying saucer" followed a day or two after
the initial descriptions of Arnold's "saucer-like" objects, and
then the terms built in popularity. But these terms were never
part of the initial reporting of the Arnold sighting. Arnold
didn't use them, and neither did Bill Bequette when he first
reported on what Arnold told him.

>and it is surely fascinating that people ever since have
>reported seeing what was first read about.

Maybe because that really is a common UFO shape and people
report what they see, including at much closer range than
Arnold. Are the Trent photos, to name but one example, an
apparition?

>Naturally I was delighted that Dave included a couple of instances of
>Arnold's analogy with the flight of geese. :-)

Arnold said that when first sighted, he thought they were snow
geese, but then quickly rejected that idea on a number of
grounds.

They flew in single file like geese. That's about it. Otherwise
their overall motion, high speed, shape, and bright flashing in
the sun were very ungeeselike.

David Rudiak

PS: Jean van Gemert e-mailed me his 3D rendering of Arnold's
initial "saucer- like" description based on Arnold's sketch
submitted to air intelligence. It gives a good impression of the
flat, disk-like objects Arnold was trying to describe.
Definitely much better than my ASCII text rendering. Please
e-mail me or Jean if you want a copy. (Jean at
j.vangemert@chello.nl) 25K JPEG image







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 23

                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 12

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 21:28:01 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:42:58 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 12


     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 4, Number 12
March 22, 1999
Editor: Joseph Trainor




WILD WEEK IN BRAZIL: UFOs, POWER BLACKOUT AND CHUPACABRA

On Thursday, March 11, 1999, at 10 p.m., a mysterious electrical
blackout knocked out power to several states of Brazil.

Losing all electrical power were the states of Rio de Janeiro,
Sao Paulo, Parana, Minas Gerais, Santa Catarina, Goias, Mato
Grosso and Mato Grosso do Sul.

Three electrical utilities were affected by the unprecedented
blackout--FURNAS, Itaip and Vale do Sao Francisco. According to
Brazilian television reports, the blackout originated at a power
station in Bauru, 350 kilometers (210 miles) northwest of Sao
Paulo, Brazil's largest city.

Power was out for four hours in the states of Sao Paulo, Rio de
Janeiro, Minas Gerais and in portions of Espiritu Santo state.

The blackout lasted only fifteen minutes in Goias, Mato Grosso
and Mato Grosso do Sul and in the city of Brasilia, the national
capital.

At midnight, FURNAS restored power to the states of Parana and
Santa Catarina.

UFOs were seen in two Brazilian cities just prior to the
blackout.

In Londrina, capital of Parana state, located 300 kilometers
(180 miles) southwest of Bauru, witnesses saw a luminous disc
cross the night sky at a very high velocity.

In Itu, a city 150 kilometers (90 miles) west of Sao Paulo,
eyewitness Joao Cardes do Santos "at the time of the blackout
went outside of his house and watched the sky, which was clear.
At that moment he saw three strange glowing objects. They were
silvery and bigger than an airplane. They were hovering at a low
altitude over the power cables that come from the hydroelectric
station at Itaip (and go) to Sao Paulo. They departed in a
straight direction at high speed."

Three days after the blackout came the report of a Chupacabra
attack in the state of Parana.

The morning of Sunday, March 14, 1999, Sra. Maria Moretti went
outdoors to feed her chickens in Vila Reis, a country town 420
kilometers (242 miles) southwest of Londrina, and noticed some
strange grooves in the ground. Looking closer, she saw that the
grooves were filled with coagulated blood.

"Dozens of birds were found dead yesterday morning (March 14) at
a farm in the district of Vila Reis, 360 kilometers from
Apucarana. The majority of the dead animals had no puncture
marks, and each one sustained a shattered skull. Locals credited
the attack to chupacabras, as was seen in past years."

(Editor's Note: The state of Parana was the scene of a major
Chupacabra flap in 1997.)

"The owner of the poultry, Maria Moretti, did not observe
anything wrong in the yard. What called her attention to the
situation was the discovery of ground grooves filled with
coagulated blood." (See the newspaper Gazeta do Povo for March
15, 1999, "O Chupacabras volta a atacar aves no morte do
Parana." Muito obrigado ao Thiago Ticchetti e Carlos Machado por
esos casos.)

UFO FLAP BREAKS OUT IN QUEBEC AND ONTARIO

On Friday, March 5, 1999, Gaetan Desjardins took his dog for a
walk in Ile Bizard, Quebec, Canada. At 5:35 p.m., he reports, "I
was walking my dog in the woods, enjoying a beautiful sunset. On
my way back home, I stopped to admire the sunset. After maybe--
I don't know--30 seconds to a minute, on my right at two o'clock
(position) right above the trees, I saw this orange light.
Believe me, I have never seen a thing like this before."

"The light then made a sharp turn to eleven o'clock, still
ahead of me now. What's amazing is that the light made sparking
but not of light. Sparking of metal. Sparks every few seconds.
Then, all of a sudden, the light became long like a cigar, and
in the middle (there was) an orange light."

"I heard no noise...before going down behind the trees, the
cigar-shape became a bright light again. As I witnessed this, I
had a strange feeling of not being in control of my body. Was I
hypnotized or just terrified? I don't know, but I am not the
type to be scared for nothing," he reported, adding that he had
the UFO in view for "two to five minutes."

In Ontario, a UFO flap erupted on the north shore of Lake Huron.
Several sightings took place in Blind River, Ont. (population
3,353), a town on Provincial Highway 17 about 150 kilometers (90
miles) east of Sault Sainte Marie.

"While driving from Elliott Lake to her home in Blind River, one
witness saw a large, ball-shaped light in the night sky, which
suddenly blinked out. The sighting took place Monday, February
22."

"Then on Friday, February 26, at around midnight, a red light
was seen hovering over some (Canadian National) railroad tracks
in Blind River by three witnesses in two separate vehicles. The
one in front was driven by a male witness, a carpenter, who was
heading home. The second vehicle was being driven by a woman who
was accompanied by her daughter."

"The driver of the first car pulled over to the side of the
road to get a good look at the light. He was about 30 to 40 feet
away from it, as it hovered there. Suddenly, the light started
to move, and the driver sped away."

"As the second car drove by, the two witnesses spotted the
object as it went into the clouds." They then spoke to the
carpenter, who "described it as a red pulsating light
approximately 30 inches (about 75 centimeters) in diameter."

"And more recently, on Saturday, March 13, (1999) at around 3
a.m., the same woman (witness) got up to go to the bathroom and
heard a low hum, similar to an electrical sound, which she
thought was coming from the refrigerator. When she walked out of
the bathroom, she noticed that the hum was much louder and was
coming from outside. She put on her coat and Ski-Doo boots and
went out to investigate."

"And, as she looked up, she saw a large cigar- shaped object as
it flew over her house. She said it was traveling from west to
east. It contained a large cylindrical light at the front,
followed by a smaller light at the back, like a horizontal
exclamation mark. She observed it for about ten to fifteen
seconds, then ran into the house to get her binoculars. When she
came back out, the object was further away to the east, and the
humming sound was faint. The witness said the object was lower
than a jet, but as high as a small plane. The sighting lasted
approximately five minutes." (See the Sudbury, Ont. Star for
March 15, 1999. Many thanks to Michel M. Deschamps, MUFON
provincial section director, for forwarding the newspaper
article.)

On Tuesday, March 2, 1999, Raymond C. reports, "My son came in
the house and said he saw something unusual in the sky" over
Kingston, Ont. (population 56,597.) "My wife went out at first
to view it, followed by myself. The object appeared as bright as
a star or even brighter, with no blinking lights. It was going
away from us at a very high rate of speed. The brightness of it
diminished as it passed behind the vapor trail of a passing jet.
The object was easily visible, quite bright in appearance, and
was as large as a bright star."

Raymond spoke to his wife for a moment, but, when he looked
again, the UFO was gone. "I was somewhat surprised that I could
no longer see it, after only glancing away for a second."

Kingston is on Provincial Highway 33 about 161 miles (258
kilometers) east of Toronto. (Email Interview)

On Friday, March 12, 1999, Raul M. and his two daughters spotted
a UFO while driving through the East York section of Toronto.

Raul reports, "Last Friday, at about 6 p.m., while I was
driving with my two daughters on Sheppard Avenue, East, we
spotted something that looked like a white straw flying at about
the same altitude as a commercial aircraft (i.e. 25,000 to
35,000 feet--J.T.) It was flying at about 30 degrees above the
horizon, traveling from north to south. It seemed to look like a
cloud--a strange flat and long cloud. The whole sighting lasted
for about a minute. We lost it behind some buildings after that.
My daughters were in shock. As for myself, I cannot say for sure
what it was. What I am certainly sure of is that it was not a
cloud, an airplane, a jet, glare or anything I had ever seen
before. If it were up to me to estimate the size of it, I would
say that it was the length of five or six (Boeing) 747s put
together." (Email Interview)

RECTANGULAR UFO TERRIFIES LABORERS IN MALAWI

A rectangular UFO caused much excitement among construction
workers at a village in Malawi, a small nation in southern
Africa.

"Workers who were constructing a new primary school at Siledi
village in the Mwanza district," in the southwest corner of
Malawi, "had the shock of their lives recently when an object
resembling a coffin (i.e. a large rectangular box) flew over
their houses just after 9 o'clock at night."

"A store clerk at the project Makaika told MANA (Malawi News
Agency--J.T.) that at exactly 9 p.m. they heard a heavy wind
blowing over their houses."

"'We thought it was a storm, but when we went out, we saw a
black coffin cruising past our rooftops,'" the clerk told MANA.
(See the Daily Times of Blantyre, Malawi for March 10, 1999,
"'Coffin' flies over houses." Many thanks to CNI correspondent
Diane Cammack for forwarding the newspaper article.)

CIGAR-SHAPED UFO FLIES OVER MILAN, ITALY

On Saturday, March 13, 1999, at 11:30 p.m., witnesses in Milano
(Milan) saw "a cigar-shaped object with two small lights flying
above the city at an altitude of 500 meters (1,650 feet)." The
UFO flew in an erratic pattern, "not regular movements."

"The object was strange in that its shape was not perfectly
defined," said Fabnzio Monaco of CISETI. "It would change its
shape. The object was illuminated on the bottom. The object
disappeared on the horizon after fifteen minutes."

UFO Roundup readers in Europe can contact CISETI at this email
address: F.Monaco@agora.stm.it (Grazie a Fabrizio Monaco per
questo rapporto.)

UFOs IN NORTHERN OHIO SEEN BY RESIDENTS AND POLICE

On Thursday, March 11, 1999, at 11:30 p.m., residents in Lemont,
Illinois (population 7,348), a suburb 20 miles (32 kilometers)
southwest of Chicago, spotted a strange UFO passing overhead.
They described it as "a black pyramid with three bright lights."

The UFO was also reportedly seen by a jetliner crew on final
approach into Chicago's O'Hare International Airport.

Fifteen minutes later, a triangular UFO was sighted over Clyde,
Ohio (population 5,776), a town on Route 20 17 miles (27
kilometers) southwest of Sandusky. A call was received by the
Sandusky County Sheriff's Department, which sent Sgt. Michael
McGuire, Unit 215, to investigate.

"Complainant stated she was heading towards Clyde on (State
Route) SR101. She stated that she observed what appeared to be a
UFO," the police report said. "She said that the UFO looked like
a triangle in shape and had three red lights on the bottom. She
stated that it was directly overhead and stated that she could
not determine the height or distance but stated she could
visibly see it was triangle in shape and very distinct red
lights. She stated that it was in view for several minutes and
then...the UFO sped away in an unknown direction."

Three days later, on Sunday, March 14, 1999, at 11:30 p.m., a
family living in Fremont, Ohio (population 17,648), about 10
miles (16 kilometers) west of Clyde, phoned the sheriff's
department to report UFOs hovering in the sky to the southwest
of their home.

"'They were not stars,'" the witness told Cincinnati UFO
researcher Kenneth Young. "'They were cigar- shaped oscillating
lights. Several of them were sitting out there to the west of
us, moving in a triangular pattern. They were not airplanes or
helicopters. Ones that were closest seemed to have a white light
underneath them and another light on top...The most I ever saw
at one time were five or six of them. Most of the time, there
were three in a triangular pattern."

Investigating the sighting was Deputy Amor of the Sandusky
County Sheriff's Department. The police report stated,
"Complainant called Dispatch and indicated that he was observing
a strange array of lights in the sky that appeared to be to the
southwest...As I responded to the call, I first observed the
cluster of lights as I was at the west end" near Route 712 and
County Road 126.

"They appeared to be red, green or yellow in color. I continued
south on State Route 53 and then west on State Route 12. The
lights did not appear to be getting closer, so I pulled my
cruiser over at the intersection of County Road 12 and State
Route 12, in order to retrieve my field glasses from the trunk."
(Boot in UK- J.T.)

"I was unable to identify the object through my field glasses.
The lights appeared to be illuminating in a steady fashion. I
did not observe any blinking or change in brightness...Although
the light did not appear to be moving at a high rate of speed,
its height and distance from my location made it difficult, if
not impossible, to estimate...The object did not appear to be
posing a threat or acting in any way that could have been
interpreted as hostile. I returned to routine patrol." (Many
thanks to Kenneth Young and to Tim Hagemeister of NACOMM for
this report.)

TWO GREEN UFOs SPOTTED OFFSHORE IN HAWAII

On Sunday, March 14, 1999, at 1:15 a.m., airline pilot Luca R.
was "coming home from work" when he "noticed two bright green
lights floating in the sky with a very strange pattern. Their
location was towards the southwest from the island of Kauai," in
the Hawaiian Islands.

"They were of the same size as the stars in the background but
at a much lower altitude," Luca reported. "Their motion was very
strange, slow but active, a short straight line but with abrupt
changes in direction, and slowly gaining altitude, almost
straight up until they were gone."

"There was a friend with me. We are both cynical pilots and we
have never seen anything like this. For sure they were not a
conventional aircraft." (Email Interview)

UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE IN COLORADO

UFO sightings are still going on in Colorado, with two new cases
reported last week.

On Wednesday, February 24, 1999, at 9:30 p.m., UFO investigator
Christopher O'Brien was at his home in Crestone, Colorado
(population 400) when he received a telephone call.

Fellow ufologist Fabian Sauvo, Chris said, "was reporting a
brilliant red light flying west to east just north of Center,
Colo. (population 1,963) I ran outside with my cellular phone
and, sure enough, there was a large red light between Crestone,
where I live, and Center. The light ducked into a cloud" over
Great Sand Dunes National Monument east of Colorado Highway 17
"and didn't come out. I waited to see if I could get a better
look, but it either turned off its light or remained in the
cloud...After waiting around for 15 minutes, I gave up." (Many
thanks to Christopher O'Brien for this report. Chris's new book,
Enter the Valley, is still on sale at bookstores throughout the
USA.)

On Tuesday, March 16, 1999, Charles M. and his family observed a
UFO over Aurora, Colorado (population 222,103), a suburb on
Highway30 about six miles (10 kilometers) east of Denver.

"We were looking south when we saw the light. I am guessing it
was at an angle of 10 to 15 degrees up from the horizon,"
Charles stated, "We observed the light on Tuesday only for a few
minutes. The lights on the object were blinking red and blue. My
wife took some video of the light. I observed the video last
night. It is not very good. She had the Autofocus on, and it
would not stay in focus."

On Wednesday, March 17, 1999, the family spotted the UFO "at
around 8 p.m. The light was about 15 degrees to the west of us
and just over the top of a neighbor's house. We waited about an
hour and returned outside to discover if the light had moved.
This time the light had moved about 35 degrees forward and
dropped almost to the horizon. to about 5 to 10 degrees above
the horizon. I did not return until about an hour later, and
they had completely disappeared. I walked down the street
because the house across the street was blocking my view. The
light was nowhere to be seen." (Email Interview)

BLACK HELICOPTERS FLY FAST AND FURIOUS ACROSS THE USA

More black helicopter reports came pouring in last week from
several states of the USA, plus one report of a strange truck
convoy in upstate New York.

According to Pennsylvania ufologist Stan Gordon, on Thursday,
March 18, 1999, between 3 and 3:30 a.m., there were dozens of
black helicopter sightings all around the city of Pittsburgh.

"There were numerous accounts of one or more military
helicopters reported from many locations in southwestern
Pennsylvania," Stan reported. "The choppers reportedly were
flying quite low and observed by many people."

"I also received a report at 3:05 a.m. from the
Pennsylvania/West Virginia border--a military chopper flew over
a house at an altitude estimated as less than 500 feet. The
chopper came from the south and went towards the north." (Many
thanks to Stan Gordon for this report.)

On Wednesday, March 17, 1999, at 8:30 p.m., a black helicopter
reportedly buzzed a ufologist's home just south of Indianapolis.

According to Richard Broadstreet of UFO Research Center of
Indianapolis, "I saw it pass over my house and going north. It
was so low, I heard the whirring of the (rotor) blades over the
TV's sound. It was real low and heading towards downtown
Indianapolis."

Fifteen minutes later, at 8:45 p.m., he added, "It just passed
over my house again and was heading south. It was as low as it
was the first time."

On Thursday, March 4, 1999, residents of Cedar Hill, Texas
(population 19,976), a town on Highway 67 about 15 miles (25
kilometers( southwest of Dallas, sighted "three black
helicopters hovering at treetop height" over a residential
neighborhood.

On Monday, March 15, 1999, at about 6:30 p.m., a solitary black
helicopter, identified as a UH-60 Blackhawk, flew southward
across Tampa Bay and hovered for five minutes over East Fourth
Avenue in St. Petersburg, Florida (population 238,629), a large
city on the Gulf of Mexico approximately 260 miles (416
kilometers) northwest of Miami.

Amazingly, witnesses said the helicopter had been performing the
same odd maneuver for 21 consecutive days. The chopper retreated
due north, following the same flight path as its approach.

On Saturday, March 13, 1999, a solitary black UH-60 helicopter
flew slow circles and hovered over Inniswold, Louisiana, a town
on Highway 73 about eight miles (11 kilometers) southeast of
Baton Rouge, the state capital. (Many thanks to Newswatch
magazine for March 16, 1999 for these reports.)

And, in the category of strange convoys, Claudia C. reported a
weird incident that happened to her as she was driving on
Interstate I-90, the New York Thruway, near Albany, the state
capital.

"I was enroute to my mother's house off Exit 23 in Albany,"
Claudia stated, adding that the incident occurred on a Saturday
in late January 1999. "I moved over into the middle lane to pass
a slow-moving vehicle. I was driving along very nicely when all
of a sudden a loud airhorn blew from behind at me. I jumped and
was startled to see" a large, heavy-duty trailer truck that
"looked like it was almost in my back seat, it was so close."

"The blue and white truck was so high you couldn't seen the
inside of the cab. I was going almost 70 (miles per hour--J.T.)
and instead of passing me in the fast lane, he tried to push me
out of the way. The truck was huge, much bigger than a regular
truck and at least the size of a large tractor trailer, plus
half the length of (another) one. This guy was going at least
80 miles per hour. It (the tank trailer) said Water on the
side."

"Then I saw three identical (water) trucks traveling fast right
behind him. They wanted the middle lane, and they wanted
everyone out of the way. There were no (license) plates on their
vehicles--nothing to indicate where they came from."

Stopping at the toll plaza, Claudia noticed that the four
trucks "were at a booth where you swipe a card (to get through)
instead of paying money." As she headed for Exit 23, she "was
seeking in my mirror for the giant trucks when I noticed a
pickup truck was waiting by the side of the highway with a white
flag on the back of the truck on a pole...I saw the giant trucks
follow with the Thruway truck leading the way. They headed
toward the south as I exited the Thruway. Let me tell you, they
were going 80 miles per hour, perhaps 90."

As for her thoughts on the incident, Claudia added, "I heard
that FEMA moved into the mountains in Thatcher Park and wondered
if they (the convoy) were part of the secret government
shenanigans we all read about. This ole girl was becoming a
raving paranoid real quick!" (Email Interview)

Y2K: MARINES MAY OCCUPY THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

A unit of the U.S. Marine Corps stationed in the District of
Columbia underwent riot training at the USMC base in Quantico,
Virginia last week to deal with urban unrest in the USA's
capital as a result of the Year 2000 computer problem.

According to the Washington Post, "A contingent from the Marine
Corps Barracks at Eighth and I Streets in southeast Washington
traveled to Quantico Marine Corps Base in Virginia recently to
train for handling civil unrest."

The diamond-shaped District of Columbia, which contains the city
of Washington, lies on the borders of Maryland and Virginia and
is adminstered by the USA Congress.

"The scenario, played out at a mock training city at Quantico,
had government workers infuriated that the problems associated
with the year 2000 computer problem prevent paychecks from being
issued."

"The Marines, equipped with riot shields and concertina wire,
were able to save the republic from marauding workers--at least
in the practice run." (See the Washington Post for March 18,
1999, "Marines train in preparation for workers' potential Y2K
anger" by Steve Fogel, page J06.)

NEBRASKA'S INCREDIBLE RATTLESNAKE CHURCH

Bethany Presbyterian Church in Lemoyne, Nebraska (population 40)
has a unique claim to Fortean fame--it was once besieged by a
legion of rattlesnakes.

In the late 1930s, the government began construction on the
Kingsley Dam, which now spans the North Platte River. As the
waters backed up six miles to form what is now Lake McConaughy,
residents realized that they would have to move several
buildings on the floodplain.

"So over the next couple of years, townspeople moved every
building they could to higher ground. The church was relocated
to a hill overlooking the lake."

By October 1941, Bethany Presbyterian Church was ready to
reopen. A new pastor was hired, and the church basement was
ready for use.

"Ladies of the community planned a workday to clean and prepare
for the revival. That's when they discovered they weren't the
only ones who'd left the valley to escape the rising waters."

"Rattlesnakes had chosen the churchyard as a place to
congregate. In fact, on that day and over the next several
months, 90 rattlers were rounded up in and around the church."

"Church services were understandably put on hold for a while.
But eventually the saints won out over the snakes. The faithful
people refurbished the old sanctuary and began holding regular
services."

Lemoyne is on Nebraska Highway 92 about 104 miles (166
kilometers) southeast of Scottsbluff. (See Country magazine for
April/May 1999, "Country Church Survives High Water and
Rattlesnakes," by Lois Dunwoody, page 43.) (Editor's Comment:
Although the rising river had something to do with it, there are
places in North America which attract hundreds or thousands of
rattlesnakes. Offhand I know of three here in the New England
states--Rattlesnake Mountain in Rumney Depot, New
Hampshire...Glastenbury Mountain, east of Shaftsbury,
Vermont...and Tatnic Hill, just east of Scotland, Connecticut.)


from the UFO Files...

1485: EXPRESS TO PELLUCIDAR

Tales of tunnels under the Andes are very old... and quite
commonplace..in Ecuador. And one of these tales dates back to
before the Spanish conquest and involves Huayna Capac, the ninth
Inca emperor.

In 1485, then-prince Huayna Capac was given command of the army
and ordered by his father, Inca Tupac Yupanqui, to extend the
borders of Tawatinsuyu (the Incas' name for their South American
empire--J.T.) northward from Quito.

After much campaigning, Huayna Capac laid siege to Otavallu
(modern Otavalo, Ecuador, 100 kilometers north of Quito).

"The war lasted for two years. It was a very modern war, in
duration, and none got the upper hand."

Otavallu, you see, was a fairly advanced civilization, like the
Incas. The city was already thousands of years old when Manco
Capac and his sister-wife, Mama Ocllo Huallpa, left their home
in Bolivia to wander the Andes, eventually founding the Inca
capital of Cuzco around 900 A.D.

The city was ruled by a young and beautiful woman named
Quillago. She was a heichera-colla (Quechua for
sorceress-queen--J.T.) and, in addition to her queenly duties,
presided with the high priestess over a religion devoted to a
goddess of the moon, whose name, unfortunately, is lost to
history.

"At last the queen was captured. The Inca sought to gain her
over with rich presents, which she would not accept. Then he
ordered her to be liberated."

Returning to Otavallu, Quilloga plotted with the elderly high
priestess, Pichamba, to assassinate the Inca prince. She told
Pichamba to hide a knife in the temple's subterranean chamber
and then invited the Incas to a feast at her palace.

During the feast, Quilloga invited Huayna Capac to the temple to
see their magical cenote (sacred well), which was supposed to
lead to Uru Ticsi, the world below. The catch was, only the
three of them could visit the subterranean chamber--the Inca
prince, Quilloga and her high priestess.

Huayna Capac was no fool. He had Quilloga and Pachimba searched
by Inca "chosen women," just as the queen knew he would, and
when they were found to be unarmed, he agreed to accompany them
to the temple.

"Hand in hand, Inca and Amazon queen descended the stairway to
the inner chamber where the snare was all set."

There was something strange and eerie about the dank,
stone-rimmed cenote. Strange hieroglyphics marked the well. At
Quilloga's invitation, Huayna Capac leaned over and peered into
the well. And surprisingly, a soft perfumed wind blew into his
face. He couldn't believe it. A wind? This far below the ground?

The circular well seemed to fall away into infinity. At the
bottom was a queer glimmer. Almost like a pinprick of daylight.
As he looked into the well, the Inca felt disoriented. He later
told his friends that he felt as if he were at the bottom of the
well, looking upward towards a tiny spot of sunshine.

He struggled against a surge of vertigo. Seeing her chance,
Quilloga glanced at the priestess. Pichamba's gaze darted to a
nearby stone altar. The queen went directly to the spot, lifted
a chahuar (alpaca shawl) and found the knife.

Maybe it was ESP or fate, or maybe it was just dumb luck, that
saved the Inca. Closing his eyes, Huayna Capac stepped away from
the cenote, then turned just in time to see Quilloga coming at
him with the knife.

He "caught the lintel of the door, with his left hand, and
fixing his feet strongly against the top of the well, heaved his
body against the Amazon queen and caused her to stumble and pitch
headlong," screaming, into the cenote.

"A shouting virago," Pichamba, "came at him with tooth and nail,
but she, too, he siezed around the waist and sent her to join
the queen at the bottom of the well."

The women's screams lasted for minutes, faded to whispers, and
then there was silence. Hayna Capac listened carefully, but he
never heard them hit the bottom. He also had no further desire
to peer into Quilloga's magic well.

Instead, he marched out of the temple and took possession of
Otavallu for the Inca empire. (See Secret Cities of Old South
America by Harold T. Wilkins, 1952, reprinted 1998 by Adventures
Unlimited Press, pages 151 and 152.)

Looks like we're running out of space. Join us next week for
more saucer news from around the planet, brought to you by "the
paper that goes home-- UFO Roundup." See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1999 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on
their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in
which the item first appeared.









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   Mar > Mar 23

             Editorial Director Reveals Part In 'Alternative 3'

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 03:28:02 GMT
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:26:25 -0500
Subject: Editorial Director Reveals Part In 'Alternative 3'


Source: Fortean Times, Issue 121, April 1999,

http://www.forteantimes.com:80/artic/121/a3.html

Stig

***

Alternative 3 (A3) was a 1978 TV Drama Featuring A Science
Documentary Team'S Investigation Of A Conspiracy Between The
Superpowers To Plant Colonies On The Other Planets. Many viewers
took it for a factual documentary. A later novel by Leslie
Watkins based on the screenplay, extended the confusion and
enshrined A3 as a major strand of modern conspiracy theory. In
FT64 (1992) We published what we knew of A3's genesis; now Nick
Austin, who commissioned the A3 book, reveals his part in a
crank classic that has fooled thousands.


Of course, Alternative 3 (A3) - the TV documentary and the book
- was a joke, a hoax, a spoof, a put-on, whatever. No one in
their right mind could have seen it as anything else, whether at
the time of the original television transmission on 20 June 1977
or when the paperback book was published nine months later, in
March 1978.

The TV company concerned - Anglia TV - had, after all, told the
media in advance that this edition of Science Report had
originally been intended to go out on 1 April. (Certainly the
preview note that I had seen in the Sunday Times of the weekend
before had made this point.)

And the internal evidence of the programme itself - after the
first few minutes - was pretty conclusive.

I was working at the time as editorial director of Sphere Books,
the paperback imprint of the Thomson Organisation
book-publishing operation that was subsequently sold on to
Penguin Books. (In a later deal, Sphere was sold separately by
Penguin to none other than Robert Maxwell: get your teeth into
that, conspiracy theorists.) Before Sphere, I'd worked at
Panther Books, an imprint of Granada Publishing which had a
market-leading science fiction list and a nicely commercial
non-fiction line in what we called, perhaps unkindly, 'crank
cosmology': Ancient Mayans and Aztecs buzzing around in flying
saucers, UFOs launched from huge subterranean bases beneath the
polar ice caps - that kind of thing. While Sphere already had a
respectable science fiction list at the time I joined, I was
concerned to develop for the company a line of crank cosmology
titles similar to Panther's. Then as now, they were useful and
reliable money-spinners for publishers too often plagued by
expensive marketplace uncertainties.


So when Murray Pollinger - the respected veteran literary agent
- phoned me on the morning of 21 June 1977 to enquire whether
I'd seen Alternative 3 the previous evening and, if so, whether
I'd be interested in commissioning a book version, I jumped at
the chance. On the face of it, this might have seemed a bit odd.
After all, it was clear that the TV programme was going to be a
one-off and that the tabloid furore it had predictably generated
was going to be a three-day wonder at best. Even though the book
would not have to be written entirely from scratch - there was
already a TV script to provide a basic framework, obviously - it
would have to be fleshed out considerably and written fast. To
publish it properly would mean a nine-month gestation period
between TV transmission and book publication.

On the face of it, I was looking at a TV tie-in to a one-off
programme that had been transmitted nine months before
publication. Hardly the stuff of cutting-edge pulp-biz
commercial savvy, you'd think. And, in the normal run of things,
you'd be right. But there was something definitely different
about A3 as a book proposition: I was convinced that the sheer
outrageousness of its concept gave it 'legs' that would ensure a
viable and financially rewarding life for it in its own right.
Fortunately, I was able to get my Sphere sales and marketing
colleagues to agree and I duly entered into negotiations with
Pollinger.

Mr. Pollinger - whose saturnine good looks and classy accent
could have easily got him a part as a senior MI5 or MI6 agent in
any of the classic espionage movies, or TV series - had lined up
an experienced British journalist, Leslie Watkins, to do the
novelisation of A3. Mr Watkins was then working on the Daily
Mail and was already the author of several well-received
thrillers. Once the deal had been struck, he set to work with
consummate professionalism and delivered the text of the book
version to me comfortably by the due date of early autumn 1977.
As one might expect, his typescript needed the barest minimum of
editorial work and went almost straight off to the typesetter.

The cover blurb and inside first-page copy was a joy to write:
"Life on Earth is doomed... horrifying full story behind the
explosive TV documentary... most astounding and frightening
conspiracy ever... full awesome horror... the grim bite of
terrible truth - a truth which is sure to be denied," etc. I
realised at the time that the original back-cover categorisation
- "World Affairs/Speculation" - was a bit cheeky but what the
hell, I thought, why not get into the goddamned spirit of this
thing?

At this point I'd better admit that my motives in taking on the
book version of A3 were mixed. They weren't just commercial;
ever since I'd first read the late, great Terry Southern's The
Magic Christian in the mid-1960s I'd wanted a chance - just one
chance - to take part in a Guy Grand-style prank. Those of you
who've had the pleasure of reading The Magic Christian - a short
novel with a natural built-in appeal to most Fortean Times
readers, I'd imagine - will recall that 'Grand' Guy Grand is an
outwardly gentle billionaire who loves to spend huge sums of
money on 'making it hot for people' by staging a succession of
truly outrageous large-scale practical jokes.

A3 seemed to me to offer the best chance I'd ever be likely to
get to participate in a hoax of truly Guy Grand proportions -
the best thing of its kind since Orson Welles's War of the
Worlds radio broadcast [see FT120]. How could I resist? I
couldn't, of course.

March 1978 came and with it publication of the Sphere edition of
Alternative 3 at a cover price of just 95p - pretty standard in
those days for a regular rack-size paperback, 240 pages long and
with no illustrations. The most recent edition (1994) was
published by Warner Books, the main paperback imprint of Little,
Brown (UK), the company that acquired Sphere and a number of
other Robert Maxwell publishing properties in the chaotic wake
of Maxwell's disappearance. At the time of A3's original
publication, no particularly special effort was made to promote
it. Then, as now, publishers' big marketing budgets were
reserved for major lead titles and that spring Sphere had more
than its fair share of bestsellers to look after - Close
Encounters of the Third Kind (coincidentally - or was it? - the
movie opened in the UK that same month) among them.

I had been looking forward with keen anticipation to a flood of
letters from the green-and-purple-ink brigade in the weeks
following publication of A3 and was disappointed and puzzled
when, apparently, this failed to materialise.

I say 'apparently' because I learned, a few weeks later, that
there had indeed been a deluge of letters and phone calls from
'concerned members of the public' but my zealously protective
secretary - whose first job in publishing this was, God help her
- had been concerned not to bother me. She considered,
reasonably enough, that this was a bizarre overkill response to
just one of our new titles in a busy season; so she fielded the
input of impassioned queries, pleas for more information and
suchlike with heroic patience.

Finally, the pressure had become too much for even this stalwart
operator (who went on subsequently to a distinguished career of
her own as a commissioning editor). She turned to me for some
background detail on the book, the better to cope with the
ongoing hassles of dealing with callers and correspondents
convinced either that Sphere had daringly exposed a monstrous
conspiracy by the government against its citizens or, somehow,
was actually part of that same conspiracy. Or both at once. I
was mightily relieved at this evidence of the desired response.

I was also delighted when, within weeks of publication, those
rumours that have since become an integral part of the A3
mythology began to feed back into the Sphere offices. The
lock-up garage "somewhere in North London" stuffed with
printers' packs of the first edition... the pulping on
government orders of that same first printing... the clandestine
buying up from wholesalers and retailers by secret agents of all
available unsold stock (new vistas of lucrative no-risk
publishing began to reveal themselves to me)... wondrous stuff,
all of it. Crazed, delusional - but pure magic, all the same -
and, it cannot be too strongly stressed, genuinely spontaneous.
Sphere had neither the time nor the resources to generate this
kind of widespread whispering-campaign marketing effort. Anyway,
there was obviously no need to.

The only unwelcome 'governmental' attention that came Sphere's
way because of A3 took the mind-numbingly tedious form of a
couple of (not very serious) threats of legal action from some
provincial local authority Trading Standards Officers. These
gents, acting as a result of protests lodged with them by
members of the public who had failed signally to enter into the
spirit of the affair, took exception to the use of the
back-cover categorisation "World Affairs/Speculation". They
claimed that this was a blatant misrepresentation of what was
clearly a work of fiction. My basic publisher's reflex response
- deny any and all liability - came swiftly into play here. But
an even more basic reflex (to do with discretion as the better
part of you know what) also kicked in: on future A3 reprints the
categorisation was changed - in a deliberate attempt to confuse
the issue still further - to "World Affairs/Fiction". (This has
been changed again, sensibly enough, to plain "General Fiction"
on the current Warner Books edition.)

My main attempt to enter, personally, into the spirit of things
backfired badly and reflects absolutely no credit on me. A
couple of months or so after A3's first publication, a letter on
official headed paper from an address in Dublin arrived at the
Sphere offices in Gray's Inn Road. Its complaint was essentially
the same as that made by the Trading Standards Officers -
namely, that the back-cover categorisation was grossly
misleading. More seriously, the writer of this letter claimed,
it (the categorisation) could cause alarm and distress to those
of the proverbial nervous disposition - elderly folk, for
example. Whereas the writer himself was (of course) able to see
A3 for what it was - a clever piece of fiction - nonetheless he
was concerned for those of his constituents who might not be
able to make the same distinction and who therefore might become
upset at the horrific 'facts' exposed.

And so on. Fair enough point, when you think about it. The
trouble was, I didn't think about it. Not hard enough, anyway. I
showed the letter around the office to my editorial colleagues.
"What the f-- does he mean, 'my constituents'?" I asked.

One of my long-suffering co-workers raised his eyebrows in mild
disbelief at this (perfectly genuine) display of crass ignorance
and pointed to the two letters - TD - after the writer's name.
"Come on, Nick," he chided gently. "Surely you..." But I didn't
know these initials stood for Teachta D=E1la; he was the Irish
equivalent of a member of parliament.

"Live and learn, eh?" says I. "Well, looks like we've got a live
one here. Pity he's not one of our own Westminster bastards but
I guess he'll have to do."

I returned to my cluttered desk, tucked my tongue firmly into my
cheek and drafted a reply in which I rejected the TD's assertion
that A3 was a work of fiction. I wrote that, while Sphere had
not received one word of complaint or denial from any British
government source about the book concerned, this silence was in
itself ominous. Could it not be that, even now, the covert
agencies accused in A3 were preparing 'terminal retribution' (I
was particularly proud of that phrase, for some reason) against
those responsible for their exposure?

This was bad enough. Worse was to come. While my colleagues
clustered nervously around, I borrowed a lighted cigarette from
my secretary and burnt a curving row of carefully spaced
'bullet' holes across my reply to the TD. Finally, feeling that
a crowning touch was required - dredging up hazy memories of Ian
Fleming's Live and Let Die ("Which finger do you use least, Mr
Bond?") - I nicked the tip of the little finger of my left hand
with my penknife and smeared a few drops of blood around the
simulated bulletholes. My editorial team-mates backed nervously
away to their own desks. "That should shut him up," I cackled,
waving my reply around to dry the blood before folding up the
mutilated document and sealing it into an envelope.

How wrong I was. The subsequent silence from that particular
quarter was indeed ominous - and relatively brief. The next
thing I knew, the affronted TD had written directly to the head
of the Thomson Organisation, Lord Kenneth Thomson himself, to
complain in surprisingly restrained terms about the gross lack
of respect to his position that I had displayed. He was right: I
had behaved excessively and there really was no excuse. (I'd
have felt less contrite if it had been a Westminster MP on the
receiving end of my 'wit', though.)

With a heavy heart, I drafted my letter of resignation, thinking
of myself as the only genuine A3 victim and that by my own hand
- or by my own little finger, at any rate. But I had not counted
on the tolerance and friendship of Sphere's then managing
director, the late and much lamented Edmund Fisher. Edmund would
have none of my attempt to resign. He wrote directly to the TD
concerned, explaining the spoof nature of the whole A3 business
and presented my behaviour as an over-enthusiastic and sadly
misguided attempt to carry its spirit over into real life,
behaviour that warranted admonishment rather than dismissal.

The TD's reply to this civilised defence of the indefensible was
wonderfully magnanimous. Accepting all Edmund's points, he went
so far as to say that, on reflection, he took heart from the
incident because it showed that there was room for a sense of
humour within the outwardly impersonal and monolithic Thomson
Organisation! A truly Irish response, in the best possible
sense.

A3 has been through at least seven reprints. It remains in print
over 20 years after its first publication - possibly because it
is the only version available, since there appears never to have
been a commercial video release. The original TV programme and
the book have generated an article once before in Fortean Times
- FT64 (September/ October 1992) - and other pieces in journals
as diverse as New Scientist and The Unopened Files. There has
even been Jim Keith's Casebook on Alternative 3: UFOs, Secret
Societies and World Control (IllumiNet Press, 1994).

Why a clever hoax, openly admitted to be such by its creators,
should continue to exercise the fascination it so obviously does
the best part of a generation after its first appearance is
beyond my feeble powers of analysis and explanation. After my
woefully misjudged attempt to add my personal touch to the
developing A3 mythology, I just sat back and enjoyed the sales.


Additional material by Jane Watkins and Mark Pilkington.








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   Mar > Mar 23

                   Another Fruit Cake Recipe From OZ Land?

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:53:22 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:32:35 -0500
Subject: Another Fruit Cake Recipe From OZ Land?


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian Research Network Hot Line Number
            1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************


Hi Everyone

Well it would appear that some American Ufologists may be on
their way to Australia with $20.000 to look for the alleged UFO
that crashed near Kalgoorlie - Boulder which was first reported
by 'Mrs. M' of NSW. The Australian UFO Research Network was
informed by the NSW UFO group that Mrs. M was reported to have
been taken to the local Hospital for a mental assessment. The
member stated these details were published in the Herald News
Paper today.

After quite a few phone calls from interested people to our
Hotline, I took it on myself to call the Kalgoorlie Police
Station [Time 9.15pm QLD] Date 22nd 3 1999 and talked to
Constable B Hand he stated he had no calls to date about any
crashed UFO. But yesterday he was told this lady from NSW had
walked into their Police Station and said she was looking for
the UFO that had crashed and she had bought all these car
seatcovers for them, constable Hand said he was told her car was
full to the roof with car seat covers and all where brand
spanking new.

He said Mrs. M was asked to wait at the Police station while
they called their mental health assessor. Mrs. M was then taken
to Hospital for further assessment. I was not told if she had
been released.

I asked the Constable if there was any truth regarding the
crashed UFO? He said "The only Alien out here, love, are the
camels. I asked if there where any inquires regarding the
matter? He said not that he had heard. I asked if there where
anymore inquires could he please give them our Free Call UFO
Hotline number? He said with pleasure. I informed him that some
American Ufologist may be arriving anyday. This information came
from the National UFO Hot Line via Mr Ross Dowe. This was also
printed in the Herald News Paper today. He then gave out a real
big belly laugh and said "I hope they like camels, love".

Conclusion: It would appear that Mrs. M maybe suffering some
kind of stress related illness and was taken to Hospital. I
would urge any American Ufologist thinking of making the trip
manly to look for Mrs. M crashed UFO call The Kalgoorlie Police
station for more details Tel 08 90 21 9777 if you don't you
maybe wasting your money.

Keep up the good work Ross - humm!

Regards Diane Harrison
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director







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   Mar > Mar 23

                  APRO 'Religious Army' - Gone Underground?

From: Bob Soetebier <bikebob@mo.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 21:52:19 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:49:48 -0500
Subject: APRO 'Religious Army' - Gone Underground?


Found this interesting tidbit about the supposed re-defunct
status of APRO.  Who knows IF the info is true, though.  (It IS
interesting, in light of the fact of previous information I had
received from a "mole" -- who shall remain nameless -- who was a
previous recipient of Hefty Bill's "reincarnated" APRO mail list
missives.  That info -- circa 1999 -- seemed to indicate that
Hefty Bill was taking APRO "underground".)

"Hefty Bill" -- a Northern Illinois Reverend? -- claimed to have
revived APRO (under his exclusive leadership) just a couple of
years ago.  (Even the "St. Louis Post-Dispatch" carried an
article to that effect about him and the "new" APRO back then.)

Apparently -- from some of Hefty Bill's mail list missives
previously passed along to me from the "mole hole" -- "Rev."
Hefty Bill had established the "new" APRO as a religious "army"!
Each "member" in his religious "army" was to be given a
military-like title, like: "Lieutenant"; etc.  Also, each member
(when in public; on "field investigations; etc.) was to be
required to wear uniformly all-black outfits.  (Supposedly, this
was to add an air of "professionalism", and "uniformity" to
their "army"!)

Just what "Ufology" needs is another group of Right-wing,
"religious" poseurs.  (NOT!)  One can only HOPE that the "new"
APRO is "dead" (as per the "Saucer Smear" info, below)!


[As I'm about to go "incommunicado" for an indeterminate period
in the very near future, I just want to be sure to get that info
"Out There". --Bob S.]


---------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------

[The following excertation was taken from the March 15, 1999,
issue of Jim Moseley's (notorious) "Saucer Smear".  That issue
can be found on-line at this URL]:

http://www.martiansgohome.com/smear/v46/ss990315.htm


--------------------------------------------------------------

                 APRO IS REALLY DEAD THIS TIME

We recently had an interesting telephone conversation with
Reverend William Heft, who, a couple of years ago, seemed to be
reviving the ancient UFO research group called APRO (Aerial
Phenomena Research Organization). We found this revival hard to
believe, because Jim & Coral Lorenzen founded APRO in 1952 and
lived in their later years in Tucson, Arizona. Anyhow, Heft now
tells us that he has given up on APRO, the new headquarters of
which was Heft's home in Illinois. He also admits that he does
not have the APRO files. Indeed, Heft has given up on saucer
research in general, and is now convinced that there is probably
nothing out there to investigate, after all ...

----------------------------------------------------------------








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   Mar > Mar 23

                  More on Gordon Novel & Black Forest Case

From: Bob Soetebier <bikebob@mo.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:13:34 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:59:29 -0500
Subject: More on Gordon Novel & Black Forest Case


While reading the following info, keep in mind 'notorious'
Gordon Novel's reported involvement in the 'Black Forest'
Colorado (Steve Lee) anomalies case. (For more info on the
'Black Forest' anomalies case, see some of the previously aired
-- sure to be in reruns on cable-TV and/or satellite TV
stations...in perpetuity -- on the "Sightings" TV show, hosted
by Tim White.  "Sightings" did at least 2 or 3 "follow-up" shows
on the "Black Forest" anomalies case.)

-----------------------------------------------------------

For more detailed info on Gordon Novel, check out this URL:

http://www.fringeware.com/~hambone/web/novel.html

----------------------------------------------------------------
-

The following excerpted info can be found at the above-noted
URL:

----------------------------------------------------------------
-


[....]


________________________________________________________________
_

"Gordon Novel had been hired by Aubrey Young to install
electronic debugging equipment in the office of Governor John J.
McKeithen."

Young was McKeithen's aide, and was reportedly tied to mobster
Carlos Marcello (see source info for details) (Weberman, AJ;
Nodule 27 - Page 91)
________________________________________________________________
_

Reportedly, Novel claims to have been hired by Nixon aide Chuck
Colosn to degauss the Watergate tapes.

Later, he worked with John Z. DeLorean, whose coke dealing,
money laundering, and intelligence connections are too
complicated to go into here.

Recently, Novel has been involved in the UFO research community.
After physicist Bob Lazar went public with his claims of having
back engineered flying saucers at Area 51, Novel showed up at
Las Vegas, eager to meet with Lazar. Novel was interested in the
mechanics of alleged anti-gravity devices. He had written a JFK
researcher a letter from prison in 1978 describing his work in
the field. Evidently, Lazar met with Novel once, before being
warned off by researcher Lars Hansson.

("An Interview with Lars Hansson", Steamshovel Press, #8, Summer
1993. Reprinted in Thomas, Kenn, Popular Alienation, Iluminet
Press, 1995, pg 156-9)

(for more information on Bob Lazar's intelligence connections,
see my article, Nuclear Dreamland and Hansson, Lars, "UFO's,
Aliens and 'Ex'-intelligence Agents: Who's Fooling Whom The
Inside Story of John Lear, Bill Cooper and 'The Greatest
Cover-Up in Human History'", 7/18/91)
________________________________________________________________
_

He has also been accused of threatening UFOlogist Bill Moore and
writer Jim DiEugenio. Novel's friend John Alexander had once
allegedly used Novel's reputation to threaten researcher Martin
Cannon.
________________________________________________________________
_

Novel is reportedly involved with Robert Bigelow and his
National Institute of Discovery Science. (What's New at Area 51
and Ufomind: 9/96)
________________________________________________________________
_

[....]

----------------------------------------------------------------
----

[Preceding the above information, you can also find the
following, along with much more info on Gordon Novel, at that
same URL.]:

----------------------------------------------------------------
----

[....]
________________________________________________________________
_

"In 1970 Gordon Novel was arrested on a charge of illegal
interstate transportation of an eavesdropping device, and was
subsequently convicted."

[....]

"In 1968, after a fight with his in-laws, Gordon Novel exhibited
CIA credentials to the arresting officers."

"In 1974 Jack Anderson reported that Charles Colson asked Gordon
Novel to help him build a giant degaussing gun to erase tapes
that incriminated Nixon, stored at a CIA site."

"The FBI stated that Gordon Novel was involved with Morningstar
Associates, 'an organization with supposed connections to the
CIA and Department of Defense.'"

"In the Summer of 1976 Gordon Novel and his partner, John
Langford, were charged with possession of an incendiary device
and aggravated arson. The men were involved an alleged plot to
firebomb some property in the New Orleans Central Business
District on Mardi Gras day, 1976, after attempts to purchase the
property for $70 million had failed. Gordon Novel hired an
undercover Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agent who later
admitted CIA ties to do the job. Jim Garrison represented Gordon
Novel."

"At his trial Gordon Novel testified the Agency was after him
because of international arms dealing. The trial, covered
extensively by Spotlight, ended in a hung jury. On October 30,
1976, the judge declared a mistrial."

(Weberman, AJ; Nodule 24 - Page 23)
  _________________________________________________________________

[....]

-------------------------------------------------------------------







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   Mar > Mar 23

                      SETI: Alien Hunters Back On Track

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:31:20 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:04:37 -0500
Subject: SETI: Alien Hunters Back On Track


Source:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/sci/tech/newsid_300000/300916.stm

Stig

***

BBC News Online: Sci/Tech

Monday, March 22, 1999 Published at 12:57 GMT

Alien hunters back on track

***

Project Phoenix, the most sensitive and comprehensive hunt for
alien intelligence ever, is back on the trail.

A dual observing session is now underway, linking the huge dish
at Arecibo, Puerto Rico and Jodrell Bank, Cheshire, UK.

The first attempt to do this failed last autumn after Hurricane
George damaged the Arecibo dish, requiring two months of repair
work.

Two sessions are planned every year, each three weeks long. Dr
Ian Morison, the Jodrell Bank co-ordinator, told BBC News Online
this would mean over 1,000 selected stars could be targeted in
the next three or four years.

"We are looking Sun-like stars within a distance of 200 light
years from Earth," says Dr Morison.

"Astronomers expect that other civilisations are most likely to
be found on planets in orbit around stars similar to our Sun.
Such stars live long enough and provide enough heat to allow
life a chance to evolve."


Millions of channels


Arecibo hosts multi-million channel receiver, started by Nasa
and now supported by the privately-funded Search for
Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (Seti) Institute, in California.
It searches a wide band of radio frequencies for
extra-terrestrial signals.

Radio waves are favoured because they travel relatively
unhindered through space and are easy to detect.

The 76m Lovell telescope at Jodrell Bank receives commands from
Arecibo so that both are looking at the same star. This is
crucial, as it is the only way to rule out "false alarm" signals
originating from terrestrial or satellite interference.

The two telescopes are thousands of miles apart, so only signals
from beyond the orbit of Jupiter can trigger the detection
system in both places at the same time.

The astronomers spend an hour at the start of each observing
session making sure that this "double-check" is working. They do
this using the signal from the 26-year-old Pioneer 10
spacecraft, now beyond the orbit of Pluto.

This safety check is unique in Seti science, says Dr Morison, as
is the real-time analysis of the incoming data: "We would know
if we had something within 10 minutes."

A separate project at Arecibo, Project Serendip, taps
information from the telescope when it is performing other
astronomical observations and analyses it later.

The 305m-diameter dish at Arecibo appears in the James Bond
film, Goldeneye. Thanks to special effects, the main antenna
appears to crash 100m to the floor of the dish.

The actual damage caused by Hurricane George was far less
catastrophic - mostly affecting walkways - which is why the
search for alien life is now on again.


Relevant Stories:

*Largest alien-hunting telescope planned  (09 Feb 99 | Sci/Tech)
*ET call Earth  (30 Jan 99 | Sci/Tech)
*Alien hoax dismays scientists  (03 Nov 98 | Sci/Tech)
*Anyone out there?  (22 Mar 99 | Sci/Tech)
*Search for life on Mars with your computer  (15 Jun 98 | Sci/Tech)


Internet Links:

*Seti Institute
*Jodrell Bank Seti


The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites.


Copyright





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   Mar > Mar 23

                           Re: Meier Case - Redux

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:23:16 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:13:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux


>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:56:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Meier Case - Redux

>Hi Jim.

>[...]

>Although man-made CFCs are still the culprits for ozone
>depletion in the stratosphere, it seems that natural bromine is
>the major main ozone destroyer in the troposphere, possibly ever
>since oceans existed on Earth. Why would E.T.s warn Billy about
>this?

>Nick Balaskas

Hello Nick,

The warning Meier was given referred to destruction of
stratospheric ozone, not tropospheric ozone. Below is a
translation from the German of relevant parts of what Meier
received (in his Contact #7) on this:


17/Today's message is: For many decades we have monitored all
spheres of your world, the increasing changes and the
dangerous effects. 18/For some years now we have noticed
steadily increasing and dangerous change in your atmosphere,
which will have deadly consequences for all Earth life: by
increasing measure the ozone belt of the stratosphere changes
due to irresponsible influences of human achievements.
19/Different ozone-destroying chemicals mount as
gas-substances into the stratosphere and affect the ozone
belt. 20/Especially this treats of the bromine gases, which
reach into the ozone-stratum and slowly dissolves it.>>


The main point of ambiguity is not what you pointed to, but
rather to "bromine gases" (plural). The plural might possibly be
interpreted as including chlorine & fluorine (and iodine...), in
which case the statement, coming in 1975, lacks predictive
value, since the danger of CFC's was known since 1970. However,
in German "Brom" means "bromine," while the word "Halogen" is
what should have been used if the halogens were meant.

Jim Deardorff





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   Mar > Mar 23

                3 UFOs Taped Over Toledo, Ohio By News Crew?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:24:24 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:22:58 -0500
Subject: 3 UFOs Taped Over Toledo, Ohio By News Crew?


The news were announced on the night of March 17. Two viewers
posted their stories to the alert section of the "UFO Files"
site. The URLs and the full pages are below the excerpts.

Guess it must be Toledo, Ohio.

Stig

***

Source:

http://www.ufoalert.com/cgi-bin/fileit.cgi?read=5173

Posted by Billy Bob on Thursday, 18 March 1999, at 12:55 a.m.

"Tonight on TV13 news there was a report of a group of 3 discs
flying over Toledo and hovering over the downtown area for 7
minutes, 5 of which were filmed by the TV's News crew. They then
split and flew in different directions at an amazing rate of
speed"

---

Source:

http://www.ufoalert.com/cgi-bin/fileit.cgi?read=5174

Posted by plastic on Thursday, 18 March 1999, at 1:02 a.m., in
response to UFOs over Toledo

"I too saw the broadcast. They only showed about 30 seconds of
the footage. They mentioned that there had been sightings
earlier this week of similar craft in the area."







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   Mar > Mar 23

                   Mass Sighting Over Massachusetts, 1966

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:38:11 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:26:33 -0500
Subject: Mass Sighting Over Massachusetts, 1966


Source: The alert section of the "UFO Files" site,

http://www.ufoalert.com/cgi-bin/fileit.cgi?read=5264

Stig

***

Documenting UFOs around the world!

UFO Alert Files

**

UFO Sighting in Boston, MA 1966

Posted by Gary on Friday, 19 March 1999, at 6:39 p.m.


My Aunt called telling us that she had heard on the radio that a
UFO was over Boston and heading north. Being 20 miles north of
Boston, we went oput on the front lawn and looked south. There
it was 90 degrees from horizon moving quickly back and forth, up
and down, changing from white to blue to yellow. It moved faster
than any known jet, and could stop instantly. This activity went
on for 15 minutes then it vanished. The event was witnessed by
thousands of citizens of Massachusetts.








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   Mar > Mar 23

                              Detroit Sighting?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:46:06 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:30:08 -0500
Subject: Detroit Sighting?


Source: "alt.ufo.reports".

Stig

***

From: "Bryan Hayes" <abhays@wwnet.com>
Newsgroups: alt.ufo.reports
Subject: Detroit Sighting?
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:45:38 -0500


Did anybody read about a Detroit sighting from about 10 days ago?

Well, really 40 miles South in Monroe, MI? 3 different Police
cars verified the citing of a blue/green coral like UFO that
didn't show up on radar speeding along at an unbelievable speed.






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   Mar > Mar 23

             Research Release - Dr. Stefan T. Possony Materials

From: Wendy Connors <ProjectSign@email.msn.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:59:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:57:37 -0500
Subject: Research Release - Dr. Stefan T. Possony Materials


Research Release:

The Project SIGN Research Center has obtained new information
concerning Dr. Stefan T. Possony, an Interviewee at the
Robertson Panel Meeting of 16 February 1953.

Three photographs of Dr. Possony have been located as well as 55
pages of vitae, book outlines and personal correspondence of Dr.
Possony. These items are being analyized and will be released in
the near future to researchers.

Dr. Possony led a distinguished career and was a member of the
Pentagon Group assigned to the Directorate of Intelligence of
the Air Force. He went to Europe to obtain information as to the
possibility that UFOs were of Soviet origin. Among his noted
efforts was that he prevented Dr. Donald Menzel's theories of
mirage effects being adopted by the Air Force as an explanation
for UFO origins. Both men became bitter enemies during the
remainder of their careers. Also of note, Dr. Possony is noted
for being an early proponent of the star wars theories as early
as 1959 which has led to the current research of SDI.

This new information and photos will appear in Michael Hall and
Wendy Connors new book, "Summer of the Saucers: The 1952 UFO
Wave," which will be available this fall.

Considerable new information regarding the mini tranformation
from Project Grudge to "New Grudge" has been obtained and new
information regarding the Ft. Monmouth incident of October 1951
will be presented in the book as well. Also, new insights on
Captain Edward J. Ruppelt and Col. Nathan Rosengarten will be
detailed. This new material gives a clearer picture of the
Grudge years and the transition to Project Blue Book than
previously known.

Besides the photos of Possony, researchers will be able to see
new photos of Ruppelt, Max Futch and several other prominent
names in early U.S. military UFO investigations which, until
now, have not been seen or available to the UFO community.

Thank You.

Wendy Connors
www.projectsign.com
projectsign@email.msn.com







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   Mar > Mar 23

                         Australia's United Skywatch

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:14:09 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:45:40 -0500
Subject: Australia's United Skywatch


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail  tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian  Research Network Hot Line Number
                       1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************


Don't forget Australia's

THE AUSTRALIAN WIDE SKYWATCH
 Saturday 27TH March 1999

Brisbane UFO Groups will be holding the venue at
WIVENHOE DAM
Captain Logan Camping ground
Contacts are

Diane & Robert at
The Australian UFO Research Network
Tel    07 380 88 56 7
E-mail tkbnetw@fan.net.au

Glennys Mackay  Continental Australasian Director at
MUFON
Tel   07 38496450
glenmack@thehub.com.au

TINO at
UFOR Queensland Brisbane
Tel   07 38496450
tino@eisa.net.au

Bring a Tent Food & Drink for a BBQ
Start Time 7.30pm
See you there









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                     Joint Statement On SOM-01-1 Manual

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:19:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:52:36 -0500
Subject: Joint Statement On SOM-01-1 Manual


Thought this might be of interest:

Steve

-----


                          NEWS ADVISORY

   FUND FOR UFO RESEARCH, P.O. Box 277, Mt. Rainier, MD 20712

                   RELEASE DATE MARCH 23, 1999

                  ***WEB MASTERS PLEASE POST***

For additional information, contact: Don Berliner, 703/684-6032
                                     Richard Hall, 301/779-8683


JOINT STATEMENT ON SOM-01-1 MANUAL PURPORTING TO CONFIRM MJ-12


The SOM-01-1 manual arrived in the mail to Don Berliner as a
roll of film from an anonymous source. This immediately raises
suspicions, since there is no identifiable source whose veracity
and reputation can be checked and no original documents that can
be subjected to forensic analysis. The manual has been carefully
examined by the undersigned parties, whose collective experience
includes military service in all three major branches;
processing and handling of highly classified military documents;
analysis and reporting on Government documents of various types;
historical scholarship; and extensive knowledge of military,
government, and UFO affairs. (See brief biographies, appended.)

We believe this to be a hoax document; a deliberate fake
designed to mislead the public and to plant false information in
the UFO research community by person or persons whose motives
are unknown. Deliberately planted false information
("disinformation") such as this forces investigators to waste
their time checking on its validity rather than on more
productive efforts. Our general reasons for concluding that the
manual is a hoax are outlined below (for more specific details,
contact the individuals):

(1) Documents and materials with high classifications have
special provisions attached to them to ensure the ability to
trace them at all times and to verify their integrity, until
they are destroyed or declassified. The security markings on the
SOM-01-1 document do not conform to required security procedures
established for all agencies by presidential executive orders.
In some instances they are totally contrary to established
security procedures. No internal evidence exists in the document
to show that proper accountability was exercised by the
document's custodians.

(2) The inclusion of some accurate information has been cited as
proof of authenticity, whereas it could equally well be
interpreted as a cut-and-paste job to lend an air of
authenticity. Partially legitimate but altered UFO-related
documents are already known to exist.

(3) The content of the manual is strikingly inappropriate for
its stated purpose. A field manual for dealing with crashed
craft and alien bodies would have no reason to include (a)
information on UFO history, (b) a chart of UFO types, (c)
information concerning radar detection of UFOs, (d) a list of
natural and artificial aerial phenomena which can be mistaken
for UFOs.

(4) Military manuals of this type establish standards and define
tasks which must be performed to accomplish the mission. The
manual fails to establish such standards and is completely
silent on personnel qualifications and equipment requirements.
Furthermore, the methods of recovery and site security described
in the manual are inadequate and tactically unsound.
Regulations, materials, and training publication references
cited are grossly

The undersigned parties take UFO reports seriously and advocate
thorough scientific investigation. However, when it comes to
analysis of 2nd and 3rd and nth generation copies of documents,
forensic analysis is almost impossible. Content analysis already
has shown serious problems with MJ-12 related documents.

The only way SOM-01-1 and other alleged "documentary proof" of
MJ-12 could conceivably be authenticated would be by locating a
documentary paper trail of certifiably original documents in
government archives, or in private papers of important people.
Even then, allegedly authentic documents would need to be
subjected to forensic examination to determine such things as
the age of the paper. And document experts would need to examine
them for internal accuracy and style. Given the track record of
fake documents and shoddy scholarship, rigorous peer review is
essential.

\signed\

Jan L. Aldrich, Master Sergeant, U.S. Army, retired.
Intelligence NCO (and Acting S-2) in European Theater; Security
Manager, Top Secret Control Officer, Cosmic Top Secret Control
Officer, Communications Security (COMSEC) Custodian, Classified
Document Custodian, and Nuclear Release Authentication System.
Familiar with protocols for establishing tactical bivouac areas
with exclusion areas, operational security, and nuclear weapon
accident/incident operations during field deployments. Fort
Sill, Okla., Directorate of Training Development, analyzing and
developing training manuals and materials.

Donald L. Berliner, aviation writer and historian. Chairman,
Fund for UFO Research. Former U.S. Air Force communications
specialist with "crypto" security clearance. Newspaper
reporter-photographer, and Capitol Hill correspondent for group
of scientific newsletters. Staff member, National Investigations
Committee on Aerial Phenomena, 1965-1968.

Thomas P. Deuley, Lt. Commander, U.S. Navy, retired. Served 14
years in the naval Nuclear Power and Naval Submarine Weapons
program. Seven years as a Naval Cryptologic Officer. One year as
a Communications Officer in charge of a 24-hour secure
communications facility. Six years as a Communications Security
(COMSEC) Custodian, Collections Officer, Analyst, and Auditor,
and finally as a COMSEC electronics engineer.

Richard H. Hall, writer and editor. Former Chairman, Fund for
UFO Research. Retired from Congressional Information Service;
duties included analyzing and abstracting government documents
and reports. Familiarity with Federal Government agencies and
activities. Extensive knowledge of all aspects of UFO history.
Former Acting Director, National Investigations Committee on
Aerial Phenomena.

Mark Rodeghier, PhD, sociology. Consultant in survey research,
statistical analysis, and research design. Scientific Director,
J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies. Extensive UFO research
experience, including participation in investigation of the
Roswell case, and collection and analysis of government
documents.

Note: Additional signers may be added at a later date.






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   Mar > Mar 23

                UFOs More Likely Probing Our Bodies And Minds

From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:05:50 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:44:06 -0500
Subject: UFOs More Likely Probing Our Bodies And Minds


UFOs were once thought to be probing our planet with a view to
invasion and colonisation. Today's UFO occupants are more likely
to be probing our bodies and minds. Nigel Watson doesn't think
much of their chat-up lines but marvels at their pulling power.

Almost from the start, sex and UFOs were inseparable bedfellows.
The adventure of 23-year-old Antonio Villas Boas on 16 October
1957 in Brazil is probably the most famous case of interstellar
intercourse.

Antonio was ploughing a field on the family farm when the engine
of his tractor cut out; at the same time, an object with purple
lights descended from the sky. Humanoids in spacesuits emerged
from the object and took him into their craft, subjecting him to
what seemed like a medical examination. They stripped him,
spread a strange liquid over him and took a sample of his blood.
He was left alone in a room for what seemed a long time, until a
beautiful, fair-haired woman arrived.

She was naked and Antonio was instantly attracted to her.
Without speaking or kissing, they had sex, during which she
growled like a dog. Despite his strange circumstances – or
perhaps because the alien liquid had Viagra- like properties
– Antonio was soon ready for a second helping. Interviewed
later, he said: "Before leaving she turned to me, pointed to her
belly, and smilingly=85 pointed to the sky."


Before letting him go, his captors gave Antonio a guided tour of
the spaceship. Antonio went on to become a successful lawyer and
still stood by his story over 30 years later.

Equally lurid stories of sexual liaisons with UFO occupants came
from the world-famous contactees of the 1950s. Howard Menger,
for one, had regular meetings with Marla, a beautiful blonde
from space who claimed to be 500 years old. She projected
"warmth, love and physical attraction," which he found
irresistible. Menger divorced his wife to marry Marla (aka
Connie Weber). From July 1952, Truman Bethurum had many meetings
with Aura Rhanes, the captain of a flying saucer, whom he found
to be "tops in shapeliness and beauty". Bethurum=92s wife wasn=92t
so impressed with this "queen of women" and cited Rhanes in her
divorce petition.

From the late Forties to the early Sixties, female contactees -
in contrast to today=92s female abductees – are few and far
between. This is more than made up for by the astonishing story
of Elizabeth Klarer, who in 1956 fell in love with Akon, a
scientist who took her to his home planet, Meton. There, he
seduced her, saying: "Only a few are chosen for breeding
purposes from beyond this solar system to infuse new blood into
our ancient race."


This smooth talk worked; "I surrendered in ecstacy to the magic
of his lovemaking," she wrote later. Klarer said their "magnetic
union" produced a perfect and highly intelligent son named
Ayling. She was sent back to South Africa alone and died in
1994; as far as we know her starman and son live on somewhere
beyond Alpha Centauri. Rather ordinary tales of =91contact=92 are
thus transformed into heroic fantasies of youthful virility.
Antonio Villas Boas claimed to have done what any healthy young
man would have done in the same situation; he and Elizabeth
Klarer delivered the goods, helping to save an alien race from
extinction.


Scientific ufologists, more interested in =91hard=92 evidence (like
radar traces, photographs and forensic samples) condemn this
=91wet=92 material as too subjective, relegating claims of sexual
assault and abduction to the fields of psychology and folklore
(which they likewise distrust). The early contactee literature
provides a rich variety of such stories and, whatever their
validity, it is a pity they have been largely neglected or
ridiculed.

When ufologist John Keel visited college communities in
Northeast America during the mid-1960s, several young women told
him they had been raped by aliens, and young men confessed that
aliens had extracted their semen.



By the 1970s, the idea of hybrid =91space babies=92 was more widely
known but taken seriously only by UFO cultists who, said Keel,
feared, that "the flying saucer fiends are engaged in a massive
biological experiment – creating a hybrid race which will
eventually take over the Earth." A decade later, these notions
were part of mainstream ufology. Serious researchers –
some of them academics, like John E Mack and David Jacobs
– openly declared their belief that the =91Greys=92 were
taking sperm and ova from human abductees. It was common to hear
female abductees tell of being impregnated, of the fetus taken
from their wombs, and of later being shown their hybrid babies
in a nursery on a flying saucer.

Historically, pregnancy and abortion have been surrounded by a
constellation of myths and old wives=92 tales and it is, perhaps,
no surprise to find UFO mythology being used to explain
unexpected pregnancies, =91mysterious=92 discharges and missing or
malformed babies. In the 1970s, a 19-year-old Californian girl
attributed the birth of a blue-skinned, web-footed baby to being
gang raped by six blue-skinned web-footed humanoids who attacked
her after she watched their spaceship land on a beach. Similar
stories of lusty mermen (the ocean has some affinity with space)
can be found in folklore and are usually given as explanation
for the birth of deformed babies with reptilian or fish-like
characteristics.

Some researchers are aware of intriguing similarities between
the lore of witches and fairies and modern abduction reports,
and nocturnal sexual encounters with supernatural beings of all
types can be found in most cultures to the present day. In the
past, hundreds of men and women confessed (not always under
torture) to sexual intercourse with demons. Some shapeshifting
demons were said to lie with a man (as a succubus) to obtain
sperm and then (as an incubus) impregnate a woman with it.
Ufologists, in particular, have been aware of the structural
similarities between accounts of fairy and alien encounters.


A recent study by James Pontolillo compared 15–17th
century accounts of sexual relations with demons to 20th century
encounters with aliens and concluded that both traditions
expressed a fundamental fear of female sexuality – but
today the male body and mind are just as likely to be under
attack.

Communion author Whitley Strieber famously described being
sodomised by a narrow, 1ft (0.3m)-long alien probe. He felt
that, while inside him, it seemed alive and was surprised, on
its removal, to find it was a mechanical device. In my own
research I have interviewed =91Martin Bolton=92 who had visions of,
and telepathic communications with, three young space women. On
behalf of these entities, he window-shopped for female attire
and watched porn films. They were the =91goodies=92; the =91baddies=92
beamed pain to his brain and for a three- year period stretched
his penis during the night. On several occasions they afflicted
him with phantom pregnancies. Ridley Scott=92s movie Alien (1979)
dramatised the otherworldly nature of the alien sexual assaults;
the proof of their inhumanity is that they don=92t always
differentiate between the sexes or even between species.



Historian David Jacobs – who offers accounts, in his book,
of abductees compelled to have sex with fellow victims while
aliens watched – speaks for many who believe that the
apparently spontaneous experience of abduction by so many
different people implies the phenomenon really exists as an
objective threat. Yet Rogerson has demonstrated that most of the
elements of the abduction narrative appeared together as early
as 1967 in The Terror Above Us by Malcolm Kent. This science
fiction novel anticipated such ufological themes as the =91Oz
factor=92 (the sensation of being transported to a different
reality), the supernatural cold, the doorway amnesia (the
informant cannot remember what went on inside a room after
entering), the alien in disguise, and impersonal scientists
experimenting on humans. For good measure, the story also
includes a male protagonist having his genitals examined before
sex with an alien female.

Another critic of the hybrid-breeding idea is British ufologist
Peter Brookesmith, who compared the described activities of the
alien =91doctors=92 with the procedures used by terrestrial
fertility specialists. He found that the alien inseminators
singularly fail to take their subjects at the premium time for
egg removal, namely within 48 hours of ovulation. And the aliens
are just as likely to be confused by =91missing=92 f=9Ctuses as are
humans, given the general difficulty of diagnosing pregnancy
within the first eight weeks.

For all their cosmic superiority, the alien inseminators can
make pretty elementary, and farcical, errors. Aliens inserted a
long needle into Betty Andreasson=92s navel. They said their
purpose had to do with creation and were puzzled to find
=91something=92 missing. Andreasson had to explain to them that
she=92d had a hysterectomy.

Whatever the genesis of such reports, we have to consider that
folk have reported sexual contact with all manner of
supernatural beings throughout history. Either the aliens have
been conducting their beastly experiments for millennia, or such
stories meet some deep-seated socio-psychological need. Until
any solid medical evidence is provided, the latter hypothesis
seems the more likely.


This article by Nigel WatsoN can be found in Fortean Times 121
It is printed with a fully anotated reference guide.

____________________________________

Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News:
UFOSEEK... For the Source! http://www.ufoseek.org
Mirror Site: http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/





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   Mar > Mar 23

                   Re: Joint Statement On SOM-1-01 Manual

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:14:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:51:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Joint Statement On SOM-1-01 Manual


To all-

The news item that I forwarded yesturday referred to the
"SOM-01-1" manual, when it should actually be referred to as the
"SOM 1-01" manual.  I regret the error, and apologize for any
confusion.  If you would like a corrected copy of the new item,
please let me know.

Steve Kaeser





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   Mar > Mar 23

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:29:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:55:49 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>From: Kathleen Anderson <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 01:00:14 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>>Date: 3/21/99 9:00:37 PM
>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>>Seriously. Has anyone heard any more about this?

>_Yes_!

>>Is there any verification from first hand witnesses, or do we
>>just have a single account from some unknown voice on the
>>telephone?

>Yes again. This is not a prank and involves very reputable
>people. Bob Fairfax, MUFON - WA State along with Peter Davenport
>have gone down on the first run to interview witnesses and check
>the area.

>>We would all like some more details certainly. I need exact
>>date, time, location and so forth.
>>Most of all, however, we need some verification of this story.
>>May we presume that it is being properly and thoroughly
>>investigated?

>I am sure one of us will give you all the details when the
>investigation is complete. We are working on it currently. I am
>not sure anyone wants to start rattling off info without
>substantial verifcation. The people involved at this particular
>time do not want to be indentified. The roads in that area are
>also covered with a lot of snow right which makes getting around
>the terrain a bit more challenging.

>Will keep you posted
>Kathleen Andersen
>MUFON State Section Director
>Seattle

Thanx Kathleen. Will look forward to hearing more about this
case once some folks have had a chance to investigate it. I just
hope that old 'Bullwinkle' was returned safely and no worse the
wear for his ordeal.

Peace,

John Velez, Webmaster IF-AIC





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                     US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 02:01:03 GMT
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:01:08 -0500
Subject: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France


Source: "alt.alien.visitors".

Stig

***

From: louflirpa@ufowatch.org (Lou F. Lirpa)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: DOUGHBOY TRACKED UFOS IN FRANCE
Date: 22 Mar 1999 20:02:09 GMT


In October of 1917, Francis McHouney of the 302nd Barrage
Balloon squadron, US Army Air Corp, tracked and logged several
dozen "spurious flying objects [that] were not Boche or one of
our guys". Their unit had Remington Acoustical trackers (large
horns that amplified sound waves and were used well into the
second World War) and the then top secret Marconi Wireless
Aerial Direction Finder (a predecessor of radar). "Me and the
boys had moved up and around the asembling [sic] area for our
next big attack against the Boche. We had heard about the new
land battleships that was going to win us the war. Our unit was
to put up balloons to keep the Boche from flying over. We had
detectors up and manned to give [us] warning if any enemy planes
were coming so that the swabbies in the landships could get them
under cover". McHouney continues, "We had heard rumours about
fantastic Boche aeroplanes that seemed to be watching anywhere
the landships were. That was why we were there, to keep them
away. Our balloons were up, 4 at 500 feet, about 300 feet apart.
Four up at 1000 feet further back in a second line and the final
four at 1400 feet, by the book as Capt. Burns would say." [Ed.
the 301st and 303rd were also present, the three units deployed
in a semicircle in front of the army assembly area.] "The first
time [I] saw them, I was on leave which meant I could go to the
rear trenches. Me and a couple of others went to look at the
land ships but couldn't get near them cause of the MPs. We could
see 'em across in the field, all covered with branches to hide
them. Only branches left for miles, must've hauled them up from
way back in the rear. Scary looking things, all bristling with
guns. Jed [Ed. Jed Wilson, boyhood friend of Mchouney, they
joined up together] shouted and pointed up. There was something
that looked like a giant mess plate [Ed. A mess plate was a tin
plate that looks very similar to a modern pie pan, about 8" in
diameter used by US Army soldiers in WWI and WWII] just hanging
over the field, directly above one of the landships. Suddenly,
it rose straight up, without making a sound until it faded into
the clouds." When McHouney arrived back to his unit, he found
that the Marconis had registered something BEHIND them that just
appeared and then disappeared. The Remingtons had detected
nothing when hurridly turned around and aimed backwards. Over
the course of the next few days, the object appeared and
disappeared every few hours, causing a disturbance each time.
"We were ordered to close up the spacing of the balloons and
move backwards, until after a week the ballons were almost
touching. A daredevil could walk around the camp on the balloons
if he wanted to. We let them up to 2500 feet and used up darn
near all the cables on the front and would've gone higher if we
could've got more" The objects continued to be sighted. McHouney
continues "On the 23rd we recieved visitors, Mr Churchill, who
invented the land ships [Ed. Churchill was responsible for
pushing through the development of the tanks but others are
credited with the invention] and a Mr Wells who was introduced
as a scientific advisor to the Ministry, and some others. They
set up a couple of cameras but rumour was all the pictures came
out black, as if the plates were exposed to light accidently."
Later, "We were all questioned about what we had seen and the
log books off the Remingtons and the Marconis were taken. They
told us not to talk about this to anyone, but the Boche had a
new super Zepplin and we were seeing the observation car hanging
down from it. We all accepted this but years later, I came to
doubt it. What we saw was BIG and it would've taken a very big
Zepplin to carry it." [From "Boche and Balloons, My Experiences
With The 302nd", Francis McHouney, published 53/04/01 by Smythe
Books, London, England]

Curiously, no record of these incidents appears in official unit
records of the US Army Air Corp and the last surviving member
[Walter "Smitty" Smith, 301st] of the 301st, 302nd, and 303rd,
died on April 1, 1968 of cancer in the Pembrooke VA Hospital in
North Carolina.

Lou F. Lirpa

Chairman "World Wide UFO Truth Finders"                      ----/
\----
http://www.wwufotruth.org/wwiufos.html                      / ooooo
oooo \

\----------/





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   Mar > Mar 23

                   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:16:14 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:35:00 -0500
Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France


Dear List:

It appears that September/October 1917 was a heavy UFO flap
period. In addition to the reported sighting by a balloon
observer in France, you had the following three incidents:

(1) September 7, 1917: Daylight "wagon wheel" observed by
Presbyterian minister and family in Salida, Colorado.

(2) October 1, 1917: Silver disc seen by a teenaged boy walking
along the railroad tracks in Youngstown, Ohio.

(3) October 1917: Disappearance of France's top-scoring air ace,
Rene Fonck, over Ypres, Belgium. Rene's Nieuport 17-C fighter
biplane was seen flying into a large cumulous cloud. It never
came out!

Does anybody have any more UFO incidents from this period?

Joseph Trainor
Editor
UFO ROUNDUP






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                   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:36:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:41:46 -0500
Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France


>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France
>Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 02:01:03 GMT

>Source: "alt.alien.visitors".

>Stig

>***

>From: louflirpa@ufowatch.org (Lou F. Lirpa)
>Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
>Subject: DOUGHBOY TRACKED UFOS IN FRANCE
>Date: 22 Mar 1999 20:02:09 GMT

>In October of 1917, Francis McHouney of the 302nd Barrage
>Balloon squadron, US Army Air Corp, tracked and logged several
>dozen "spurious flying objects [that] were not Boche or one of
>our guys". Their unit had Remington Acoustical trackers (large
>horns that amplified sound waves and were used well into the

<snip>

>Lou F. Lirpa

>Chairman "World Wide UFO Truth Finders"

Stig,

Sounds like this posting is by the esteemed Dr. Lirpa who used
to write for the April edition of Stereo magazine or one of his
close relatives...

April F.oul --->April Fool

Gary






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   Mar > Mar 24

              Re: 3 UFOs Taped Over Toledo, Ohio By News Crew?

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:27:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:50:24 -0500
Subject: Re: 3 UFOs Taped Over Toledo, Ohio By News Crew?


Stig;

The report of the UFOs sighted over Toledo on March 17 and
videotaped by a news crew may not be factual. Being interested
in the comments by "Billy Bob" and "Plastic," I placed a phone
call to the WTVG Channel-13 News station in Toledo, an ABC
affiliate [4247 Dorr Street, Toledo, OH 43607].

Upon making contact with an employee in the News Room (419)
534-3858, she informed that she had not heard of any such story.
She put me on hold for about 60-seconds [while asking others in
the newsroom, I presume] and then returned to soundly inform
that no such video exists and the report was "untrue."

Kenny Young
March 24, 1999
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/






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   Mar > Mar 24

               Re: Australian UFO Out Back Tour 1999 Sightings

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:10:21 +1000
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:15:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Australian UFO Out Back Tour 1999 Sightings


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail  tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian  Research Network Hot Line Number
                       1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield list Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list
however,personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
****************************************************************


Hi Everyone
_________________________

Australian Out Back Tour 1999
_________________________

Alice Springs: Kings Canyon Sighting
Date of interview: 6th 3 1999
Time: 6.00am
Report by: Diane Harrison

Anonymous name for pilot to protect his job.

3 Alice Springs Helicopter Pilots decided to go to Kings Canyon
to do some fishing.

Mr R Shaw said, it was a really clear night not a cloud in the
sky. I first to see this very bright white light to the east of
us "it was really bright" and what got me was the size of it, it
was half the size of the moon, you know if you cut the moon in
half thats how big it was.

(Q) At arms length what was the size. [I gave him sizes to work
off ]

(A) The size of pea cut in half, all the other star's looked
very small compered to this one.

(Q) Did it move around.

(A) Yes it went up then down, then it would fade in then out we
watched this thing for some 20 to 35 minutes. I'm a pilot Diane
and I know this was not a plane and we where not drunk we only
had a few beers.

(Q) What date did you have this sighting.

(A) Gee? it was last year hum 1998

Mr R Shaw Stated: Another one of his friends was based at Kings
Canyon for 2 years and he saw heaps of lights he could not
explain.

While I interviewing Mr Shaw, 2 pilots asked me for our Hotline
number, a bus driver asked for a report form. Then said he was
going to fill it out and post it on to me.

Regards Diane Harrison

Founder of the Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network Hotline









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                           Alice Springs UFO Video

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:30:04 +1000
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:33:21 -0500
Subject: Alice Springs UFO Video


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail  tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

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UFO Australian  Research Network Hot Line Number
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Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield list Owners are not
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however,personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
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The Australian UFO Research Network

________________________________________________________________


We can now confirm we have captured a day time Unidentified
Flying Object on video tape

We have five minutes of raw footage.

Date of video: 7th 3 1999

Time:          8.10am to 8.15 am

Location:      Alice Springs

Followup investigation by: Keith Douglass Alice Springs

We have done the relevant investigation to try and identify this
object. The case is still under investigation.

If you would like a copy of the tape please forward a blank
video with postage only and we are more than happy to send you a
copy. Sharing is caring

Post To

The Australian UFO Research Network
PO Box 805
Springwood QLD, 4127
Australia







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               A Terrible Surprise At The Prophets Conference

From: taller@diario1.sureste.com
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:11:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:55:07 -0500
Subject: A Terrible Surprise At The Prophets Conference


A personal note about Cody, founder of The Prophets Conference,
by Robin Johnson follows these Notes from a Mexican Hospital Bed
from Cody

________________________________________________

NOTES FROM A HOSPITAL BED IN MEXICO, by Cody

This Prophets Conference thing is getting more interesting and
truly weird by the moment.

This is Cody, a.k.a. Gary C. Johnson, and I'm dictating this
email to you from an intensive care unit bed in a hospital in
Cancun, Mexico.

I have so many wires and tubes in me, I feel like John Glenn
doing a melatonin test.

Anyway, the purpose for my being here in Mexico is to present
another of the Prophets Conferences - another of the
explorations designed to synthesize spirituality and science,
and to bridge our old worn out reality into a new vision and a
subsequently viable evolutionary opportunity.

We're here in Mexico to do serious medicine and to significantly
impact the Field. Even though I'm not at the conference, from
what I understand, the people who came here from around the
world to do this work are reaching even fuller levels of
understanding and greater powers of presence than any of our
other conferences.

But me, I'm stretched out here playing along the edge of death
because, all of a sudden I have an enlarged heart that could pop
at any moment, and all of my physical systems crashed at once.

I do find this all rather odd because I had full blood work done
three months ago and everything looked quite fine.

I'm fifty-nine and have stayed in pretty good shape (diet,
exercise, giving up destructive habits, etc.) over the years,
and now (out-of-the-blue) this.

Most of those at this conference are authentic and very powerful
medicine people and they are reporting to me, through my partner
Robin, that there are indications of a strong and harmful
sorcery being focused toward me.

I never dreamed that I would be considered of such importance,
but here we are.

Now, I really don't like talking about conspiracy stuff, but I'm
certainly not a na=EFve person, and I rarely express my personal
opinions about any of this, but the people I present, or have
presented, include some substantial players - Edgar Mitchell,
Zecharia Sitchin, Drunvalo Melchizedek, and a host of other
scientists, shaman, healers, and saints - all people who tend to
challenge the status quo of thinking.

Robin and I have received an occasional threat on our lives from
the usual number of cranks; however, we never have taken these
very seriously-that is until now.

Today one of the doctors here at the Total Assist Cancun
Hospital took a call from someone speaking perfect Spanish,
saying they were calling from my office in Washington, D.C., and
inquiring as to if I were going to live - but when pressed, they
did not give a name or number.

At that time, maybe five or six people knew about the heart
problem. Plus, my so-called office is in a small cabin/home
where Robin and I live and work in a very isolated spot on the
island of Maui - certainly not Washington D.C. with a Spanish
speaking staff.

It has really puzzled me why anyone or anything would really
want to bring me harm, but if you stop and look at it, this work
could be a challenge to some. We receive no outside funding, so
we can't be dollar controlled. Money from one event or tour is
used to produce the next one, and by choice we live very simply.

The work being done is focused on finding some quality answers
regarding ancient peoples, Earth changes, UFOs, and the many new
ideas, anomalies, and enigmas with which we are faced (or
blessed) with today-some people might find this work somewhat
disconcerting.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that I died yesterday and had a
so-called NDE. The doctor who told me that I had died was very
curious about the experience. I told him about the typical
bright light we have heard so much about, but there was no one
there to greet me except a little dog called "Chocho", which was
my pet when I was three or four years old. This little black
dog kept loudly and very aggressively barking at me to get out
of her space - so, I gladly took her advice and returned to
Cancun.

Following a wild ride in an intensive care ambulance across the
Yucatan Peninsula, with a truck carrying shrimp in rolling
flames in the next lane, I now occupy a Mexican hospital bed in
Clinica de Merida where I'm receiving a full battery of tests.

Oh, an additional miracle in passing-

Lying next to me in intensive care at Total Assist Hospital was
a Mayan woman, Maria del Socorro Chimal. She had been hit by a
truck several weeks prior, and the doctors did not expect her to
come out of coma. So I made a request of the Prophets
Conference participants, all healers in one way or another, to
include her in their prayers, meditations, and ceremony. The
next day the doctors were completely astonished and were asking
me many questions, because Maria "woke up". Not only was it
wonderful that her situation turned around, it also shifted the
perspective of the doctors and opened them to the power of
shamanic healing.

So, that is about it for now from Mexico, except thanks from the
bottom of my heart for the wonderful prayers and loving support
during this difficult time. Although this situation has eaten
up seed money, the intent is to now get well, regroup, and keep
this work moving forward. Really, when you're at the end of
history and at the beginning of a Great New Cosmic Cycle, what
other choice is there?

Hasta luego, Cody


A PERSONAL NOTE ABOUT CODY, FOUNDER OF THE PROPHETS CONFERENCES,
by Robin Johnson

This is very difficult to write, as my emotions overflow with
both love and concern. Cody died this week. For a few moments.
Many of you know him as the creative force behind The Prophets
Conferences, and so I feel drawn to share this with you.

The following morning upon our arrival in Mexico for The
Prophets Conference Caribbean, Cody was hurried to the emergency
hospital. He could not breathe. He was immediately taken to the
emergency room where there began a maze of wires, x-rays,
intravenous medications (5 different bottles), and people
rushing around talking frantically in Spanish. Although I could
not understand their words, I clearly understood what was taking
place and felt in shock.

I would like to share some background information with you.
Cody is a man of passion, and he has been driven by a vision
that takes him to places where few of us live. He has dedicated
his life to the transformation of perception and the conscious
evolution of humanity and Earth, our Mother. Pushing the
envelope to the very edge has been his way to know and
understand who we are as human beings in this experience and
where we might be headed. His search for the truth and research
of where the mysteries may be hidden is relentless. It is part
of him. It is his soul's calling. He has been gifted with an
intuitive sense of transcendent awareness and he generously
shares it with all. That awareness has just been heightened by
his Near Death Experience.

Gathering people together has been Cody's way of creating
change. He was doing this through music when we first met in
1974. In the late 60's and 70's music was a powerful vehicle for
social, political, and environmental awareness, and through big
musical gatherings with artists like The Jefferson Airplane,
Bonnie Raitt and Little Feet, Jackson Browne, David Crosby, The
Doobie Brothers, (benefiting groups like The United Farmworkers
Association, SolarCal, The Will Geer Theatricum Botanicum, Food
Banks) Cody helped plant the seeds of change. These musical
gatherings were celebrations of a shift in perception that was
birthed during this time.

Through his own growth and evolution the gatherings took a
different form and in the early 90's Cody began bringing
together groups of people to explore ideas from ancient cultures
and bridge them with the findings of quantum physics and new
science. The first of these gatherings was with Carlos Castenada
and his group of sorcerers. In the beginning the gatherings took
the form of weekend and weeklong workshops, delving into ancient
ways and new findings, turning and twisting reality to find out
'what is really going on'. He brought together a visiting
faculty of visionaries, shaman, researchers, pundits, scientists
and mystics to find keys that would unlock the doors to the
great mystery. Visiting faculty member and author Tom Robbins
affectionately named our organization Axiom the "Timbuktu U."
gypsy campus -- attended in powerful and interesting places by
an international student-body ("Timbuktu U" from his most recent
book "Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas"). These individual
explorations, including shamanic dance with Gabrielle Roth,
Christian Mysticism with Matthew Fox, altered states of
consciousness with Stanislav Grof, Michael Harner, Terence
McKenna; indigenous cultures with Angeles Arrien, Hyemeyohsts
and Swan Storm; UFO phenomena with Whitley Strieber, Edgar
Mitchell; hidden secrets left by the ancients with Zecharia
Sitchin; sacred geometry with Drunvalo Melchizedek; and ancient
tantric practices with Margot Anand, moved into a new format to
allow for a greater synergy.

Cody shaped The Prophets Conferences to weave together the
leading voices of science and spirituality, shamanism and new
technology, with ceremony at ancient sacred sites. And the
Prophets Conference Caribbean added the dimension of sound and
music. During this spring equinox celebration people are
gathering all over the planet simultaneously to tune in to the
new energies, and much of this has been stimulated through
Cody's efforts. This conscious matrix deeply touches people's
lives and hearts, taking the seeds of change that were planted
years earlier and bringing them into form. Many are inspired by
his vision and follow the call to join with other like-minded
beings. New, magical relationships are created, and as each one
moves forward, we not only realize significant change within
ourselves, but we also are making a significant impact on the
Greater Field. The kindred spirits attending these gatherings
are Medicine people, and a reinvisioning and a reconfiguration
of reality are truly happening. Right now at this very moment as
I write this. A cycle spiraling around for yet another turn in
our evolution has begun with this New Year, and a cycle
spiraling around for yet another turn in our evolution has begun
in his new life.

And now, I ask of you to share your love and support with this
very beautiful being. His very enlarged heart, holding the space
for all of our hearts, has put a tremendous strain on all of his
vital organs, which are still in very critical condition.
Although he has recently been moved from Intensive Care, he is
not yet "out of the woods." I ask you, as his beloved, his
friend, his partner in life, and one deeply moved by his
contribution to our world to open your hearts and give back in
whatever way you are able. Meeting these medical expenses is an
unexpected and a formidable task. As we have always been in good
health, we never felt the need for medical insurance. Also, we
invested all of our financial resources into this work, and=85
Your prayers, meditations, ceremonies, and financial support
during this challenging time are greatly appreciated, by both of
us.

A complete set (18) of high quality conference audiotapes will
be included with each donation above $260. See conference
schedule at http://www.greatmystery.org/schedule.html for a list
of the presentations.

If you are able to make a financial donation, please send the
funds payable to:

Axiom Mystery School
Account Number 41200-3477
For Cody Johnson Medical Expenses
Mail to: Nevada State Bank, 3600 S. Virginia Street, Reno, NV 89502

Mahalo nui loa,
Robin

        "You that come to birth and bring the mysteries,
                Your voice thunder makes us very happy,
                        Roar, lion of the heart
                          And tear me open."
                                -Rumi

You are encouraged to forward this information to your friends
and respective mailing lists. Thank you. We will be back
on-line sometime in April. Send mail to <Cody@greatmystery.org>










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   Mar > Mar 24

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:55:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:58:55 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>From: Kathleen Anderson <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 01:00:14 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>>Date: 3/21/99 9:00:37 PM
>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>>Seriously. Has anyone heard any more about this?

>_Yes_!

>>Is there any verification from first hand witnesses, or do we
>>just have a single account from some unknown voice on the
>>telephone?

>Yes again. This is not a prank and involves very reputable
>people. Bob Fairfax, MUFON - WA State along with Peter Davenport
>have gone down on the first run to interview witnesses and check
>the area.

>>We would all like some more details certainly. I need exact
>>date, time, location and so forth.
>>Most of all, however, we need some verification of this story.
>>May we presume that it is being properly and thoroughly
>>investigated?

>I am sure one of us will give you all the details when the
>investigation is complete. We are working on it currently. I am
>not sure anyone wants to start rattling off info without
>substantial verifcation. The people involved at this particular
>time do not want to be indentified. The roads in that area are
>also covered with a lot of snow right which makes getting around
>the terrain a bit more challenging.

>Will keep you posted
>Kathleen Andersen
>MUFON State Section Director
>Seattle


Dear Kathleen:

I contacted Peter Davenport, and heard his Jeff Rense show
interview. Sounds solid so far.

My main concern now are the coordinates of the event so I can
map it in my software. I understand that there are definite
privacy issues here, and further discussion about the location
should be off-list.

Best wishes

Larry Hatch

<larryhat@jps.net>





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   Mar > Mar 24

                   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:52:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:12:36 -0500
Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France


>From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:16:14 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

>Dear List:

>It appears that September/October 1917 was a heavy UFO flap
>period. In addition to the reported sighting by a balloon
>observer in France, you had the following three incidents:

>(1) September 7, 1917: Daylight "wagon wheel" observed by
>Presbyterian minister and family in Salida, Colorado.

>(2) October 1, 1917: Silver disc seen by a teenaged boy walking
>along the railroad tracks in Youngstown, Ohio.

>(3) October 1917: Disappearance of France's top-scoring air ace,
>Rene Fonck, over Ypres, Belgium. Rene's Nieuport 17-C fighter
>biplane was seen flying into a large cumulous cloud. It never
>came out!

>Does anybody have any more UFO incidents from this period?

>Joseph Trainor
>Editor
>UFO ROUNDUP


Dear Joseph:

I would add the 13SEPT1917 sighting in Fatima, Portugal; widely
seen as a religious miracle. 50,000 observers assembled to watch
the 2nd or 3rd predicted apparition of the "Blessed Virgin".

Whether the BVM showed up or not I cannot say. The crowd _did_
see a a rotating opalescent ovoid, saucer or disk depending on
who is describing it.

The 3 children who started all this claimed to see some silver
suited entity with or holding a silver globe of some kind.

One source is The Flying Saucer Vision, by John Mitchell, page
95. Publishing details on request.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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   Mar > Mar 24

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:57:14 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:17:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:02:24 -0800

>>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:17:44 -0500
>>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Greetings all,

>>Compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:11:36 EST
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>>While I wouldn't quibble with the criticisms here of Tim
>>Matthews's attempts to squeeze 1940s UFO sightings in so damn'
>>tight to the bottle of experimental aircraft, I am at loss to
>>reconcile Arnold's various descriptions of what he saw, and the
>>two illustrations he endorsed -

>>>The picture Arnold drew of the objects looked something like
>>>(and please excuse the difficulty of trying to draw rounded
>>>shapes using only text -- use nonproportional font like Courier
>>>to view properly):

>>>       ____
>>>     (      *
>>>     )       \
>>>     (        )     -==========-
>>>     )       /
>>>     ( ____ *

>>>      Profile         Edge-on


>>--with "saucers". Nothing of such a shape has ever been seen by
>>me with a teacup on top of it. Following several vocations, I
>>have moved in the highest and lowest society on several
>>continents, and I doubt anyone anywhere has such an item in
>>their pantry, despite so many people living in such
>>unfortunately straitened circumstances that they could not
>>expect to inherit a decent set of Spode, and perhaps on occasion
>>having to resort to using cracked or broken porcelain.

<snip>

>I don't think it did, either,the news media traditionally "Gets
>the facts first then distort them as much as they want" - to
>paraphrase Mark Twain.

Gentlemen please...

Enough already! We at the Canal Street UFOlogical Society have
undertaken a thorough analysis of the above Arnold Sightings
Photo, but only because we tire of this constant bickering over
what the darn thing really is. We at Gesundt's, after spending
literally thousands of man hours (and a few woman hours too,
heh, heh) and literally tens of dollars, have finally up with an
explanation, come. We want you to know that Gesundt's photo
analytical team rarely wastes time on such trivaility as this
photo, but as we said, we tire of the in-fighting. And so, this
is what is....

It's a paducalated framagoidation of an intoberated, but
slightly imunerated ferblungit, reminiscent of the early models,
shown in the National Museum at Canal Street. Except at the
Canal Street UFO Museum, we call it a "Woof Hong!"

The first person to call us (collect) and tell us what a Woof
Hong really is, will win a case of our newest product... Pia
Gripple. Don't drink it if you plan to think clearly. And please
don't use Pia Gripple anywhere near a Pia Zadora blow up doll...
Gesundt's is finding it very difficult keeping up with the
demand.

Now, please, get on with your research on the important issues
surrounding the UFO experience.... for example...

1) Think of another name for UFO's, other than UFO's in order
   to make it more acceptable to citizens.

2) How to take up less bandwidth and _still_ supply your
   Curriculum Vitae with every UpDates post.

3) What's a hen weigh.

Gotta go now and call my honey, and wax my new BMW. Bye..

Gesundt





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 24

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:13:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:21:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:04:30 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:17:44 -0500
>>Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:03:23 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>>While I wouldn't quibble with the criticisms here of Tim
>>Matthews's attempts to squeeze 1940s UFO sightings in so damn'
>>tight to the bottle of experimental aircraft,

>That apparently is going to be the last thing we agree on.>>

>>I am at loss to reconcile Arnold's various descriptions of what
>>he saw, and the two illustrations he endorsed ->

>What's so difficult to reconcile? All his initial descriptions
>were of a thin, flat, disc-like objects, rounded in front, but
>not in back. _Later_ he added that the lead object was
>differently shaped, being wider and crescent- like, or something
>..descriptions. He was describing two different shapes: 8 objects
>were of one shape, 1 was of another.

<snip>

I am impressed by your patience!






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   Mar > Mar 24

                         Re: Latest Update From RPIT

From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:24:00 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:03:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Latest Update From RPIT

All,

I've today revised and updated the Ramey Message page in the
RPIT section of my website. My regular visitor from the Goddard
Space Flight Centre just missed this one so I hope he or she
reads this.<g>

http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/new-1/index.htm

I hope Errol is in a kind mood, as I've also attached a sample
of what's been uploaded.

As said, the new findings concern the Ramey Message, not I
regret any new words, though a couple of minor "modifications"
have been made, but what could be equally important in the
discovery of the origin of the message.

At the top left of the message Gen Ramey is holding in the
picture taken in his office that July afternoon can be made out,
a "crest/emblem" of some discription, I think we are now a
little nearer discovering just what that feature is.

This last weekend I took another look at this feature from yet
another scan of the area, this time I have managed to get a
little more detail and feel a few conclusions can be drawn from
them.

The feature turns out to be circular in nature with a
distinctive "double" outer rim, I had seen this before just that
day while going through some FOIA documents, what I had seen
earlier was a 1950 document holding the official seal, in the
self same place, of the US Dept of Defence, I include this in
the attached image.

The mock-up of my interpretation of features on the seal in the
Ramey message has been constructed around another DOD seal from
1950, that of the Air Force Headquarters. The eagle is that from
the DOD seal and the arrowhead is the feature itself from the
original image. The scale of ratio of inner and outer seal edges
(the tramlines) seems an extreamly good fit when this is scaled
and placed over the original image.

The other feature of note in the mock-up is the word "COMBAT",
this can be made out (just) and follows the "tramlines" round
from the 5 o'clock position throught to aprox 3 o'clock in the
image seal.

I hope those on UpDates with a background in military documents
of that time might have enough here with the distinctive
arrowhead/ aerofoil shape plus the placement of this word to
identify just which outfit used this seal, we just might then
learn who was really calling the shots that afternoon?.

Best Regards,

Neil.


-------------------------------------------------------
                     Neil Morris@Home.

Email:             Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk
Web Site:
                  http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/





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   Mar > Mar 24

                         Re: Latest Update From RPIT

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:04:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:04:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Latest Update From RPIT

Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:24:00 -0800
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Latest Update From RPIT



All,

I've today revised and updated the Ramey Message page in the
RPIT section of my website. My regular visitor from the Goddard
Space Flight Centre just missed this one so I hope he or she
reads this.<g>

http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/new-1/index.htm

I hope Errol is in a kind mood, as I've also attached a sample
of what's been uploaded.

As said, the new findings concern the Ramey Message, not I
regret any new words, though a couple of minor "modifications"
have been made, but what could be equally important in the
discovery of the origin of the message.

At the top left of the message Gen Ramey is holding in the
picture taken in his office that July afternoon can be made out,
a "crest/emblem" of some discription, I think we are now a
little nearer discovering just what that feature is.

This last weekend I took another look at this feature from yet
another scan of the area, this time I have managed to get a
little more detail and feel a few conclusions can be drawn from
them.

The feature turns out to be circular in nature with a
distinctive "double" outer rim, I had seen this before just that
day while going through some FOIA documents, what I had seen
earlier was a 1950 document holding the official seal, in the
self same place, of the US Dept of Defence, I include this in
the attached image.

The mock-up of my interpretation of features on the seal in the
Ramey message has been constructed around another DOD seal from
1950, that of the Air Force Headquarters. The eagle is that from
the DOD seal and the arrowhead is the feature itself from the
original image. The scale of ratio of inner and outer seal edges
(the tramlines) seems an extreamly good fit when this is scaled
and placed over the original image.

The other feature of note in the mock-up is the word "COMBAT",
this can be made out (just) and follows the "tramlines" round
from the 5 o'clock position throught to aprox 3 o'clock in the
image seal.

I hope those on UpDates with a background in military documents
of that time might have enough here with the distinctive
arrowhead/ aerofoil shape plus the placement of this word to
identify just which outfit used this seal, we just might then
learn who was really calling the shots that afternoon?.

Best Regards,

Neil.


-------------------------------------------------------
                     Neil Morris@Home.

Email:             Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk
Web Site:





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   Mar > Mar 24

                            Crop Circle Studies?

From: Sue Lawrence <NevadaFighter@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:30:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:07:48 -0500
Subject: Crop Circle Studies?


Hi List

Is anyone here aware of any groups that conducted scientific
tests on all of the Wiltshire formations last year? If so, what
tests were carried out?

Thanks, Sue

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/nevadafighter/





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   Mar > Mar 24

                  Re: Australia Paving The way In UFO Unity

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:15:48 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:11:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Australia Paving The way In UFO Unity


Diane Harrison and her colleagues should be commended for
getting together in an effort to unite Australian ufology. From
personal experience, I can testify that getting the cooperation
of disparate "loner" ufologists, UFO researchers and buffs is
not easy.

As she noted:

>Sharing is caring and UFO NSW is doing it in a very big way,
>they are the second oldest UFO group in Australia, and it's
>great to see Australian UFO Groups uniting and starting to trust
>one another and share information. Thank you, Brian, Wendy,
>Anthony, Doug, Mike and all. We Australians are paving the way
>for the rest of the world. Unite not fight, right share and
>care.

Not meaning to downgrade their efforts, though, Canadian ufology
has been coordinating research among provincial organizations
for ten years now. I like to think that *we* paved the way for
others :)

In addition to an annual UFO survey of national UFO reports,
Canadian ufologists have been sharing UFO case data for several
years. (OK, not all of them, but they know who they are.)

As well, we cooperated on a Gallup-style poll of Canadians
regarding UFO beliefs, and that study was published a few years
ago. It is hoped another similar study could be done again soon.

It's nice to see researchers in other countries uniting together
to pool their efforts in an attempt to look at UFO reports
seriously.

Good for you Aussies!

Love, the Canucks


--
Nobody in particular





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   Mar > Mar 24

                Re: Research Institute on Anomalous Phenomena

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:25:24 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:40:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Research Institute on Anomalous Phenomena


Hello list,

I received this message and am forwarding it to you.
Perhaps someone is interested in this.


***********


Dear Colleague,

My name is Alexander Beletsky. I am Vice-Director of Research
Institute on Anomalous Phenomena (RIAP) - an independent
scientific- research body, established in Kharkov (Ukraine) a
few years ago. We aim at scientific studies in the fields of the
UFO problem and the SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence) question. The Institute makes its investigations
in close collaboration with the CIS Academy of Cosmonautics and
Russian Academy of Sciences. Please find here attached (as
Appendix I) a RIAP Information Leaflet, describing the
Institute's research programs in some detail.

To inform the international ufological community about the
results of investigations that are conducted by RIAP specialists
and other scientists in the territory of the former Soviet
Union, we started, in 1994, a special periodical: newsletter
RIAP Bulletin (RB). It is the ONLY serious anomalistic
periodical in the Commonwealth of Independent States published
IN ENGLISH. There appear in RB research articles, short
communications, book reviews, letters to the Editor, etc.

RB Vol. 1, Nos. 1-4 - Vol. 4, Nos. 1-3 have been printed and
sent to subscribers. They contain, in particular, the papers
"Post-Soviet Ufology: a View from Inside" and "Alternative
Science?", by V.V.Rubtsov; "UFOs as Objects of Study by
Terrestrial Physics", by V.A.Buerakov; "Search for Alien
Artifacts on the Moon: A Justification", by A.V.Arkhipov; "UFOs:
a Possible Mechanism of Formation, Behavior and Environmental
Impact", by V.I.Mazhuga; "The Petrozavodsk Phenomenon", by
L.M.Gindilis & Y.K.Kolpakov; "The Black Ball: a Supposed
Extraterrestrial Artifact", by V.N.Fomenko; "A Second UFO
Landing on the River Mzha", by a group of RIAP scientists, and
others. We have also published the first really comprehensive
survey of anomalous features of the famous Tunguska explosion
("The Tunguska Meteorite: A Dead-Lock or the Start of a New
Stage of Inquiry?"), written by the leading Russian specialist
in this problem - Nikolay V. Vasilyev, Member of Academy.

RIAP Bulletin is published four times per year. Subscription
rates: a life-long subscription - $100; 12 issues (three years)
- $50; 8 issues (two years) - $35; 4 issues (one year) - $20.
Airmail postage included. Back issues are still available in
limited quantities ($5 per issue, $50 a whole set - ten issues).

If you are interested in subscribing to RIAP Bulletin, please
let me know. I and my colleagues would be happy to inform you
about advances and prospects of ufological studies in this part
of the world. There will appear in the next RB issues, in
particular, the following papers: "A Possible Genetic Trace of
the Tunguska Catastrophe of 1908", by Y.G.Rychkov; "UFOs: False
and Genuine", by the Russian academic UFO expert Y.V.Platov;
"Did the Maori Know About the Rings of Jupiter?", by
Y.N.Morozov, and many others.

With all my best wishes and warmest regards, I remain,

Sincerely yours, Alexander V. Beletsky, M.A., Vice-Director,
RIAP

================

Appendix I

     RESEARCH INSTITUTE ON ANOMALOUS PHENOMENA, Kharkov, Ukraine

     The principal trends of researches of the institute in the
UFO field are as follows: creation of an efficient system of
reconstruction of a real anomalous event on the basis of
witnesses' testimonies; formation of a unified CIS UFO data base
(in collaboration with the Expert Group on Anomalous Atmospheric
Phenomena of the Russian Academy of Sciences) and a computer
expert system to identify genuine UFOs (GUFOs); development of
physical models of GUFOs; monitoring of a place of recurrent UFO
landings on the river Mzha, near Kharkov; studies in the hidden
history of Soviet ufology.

     In the SETI field, there was realized, under the guidance
of Alexey V. Arkhipov, phase I of the program "Search for Alien
Artifacts on the Moon" (SAAM) and its results were presented on
the pages of RIAP Bulletin. Besides, we have been examining some
enigmatic finds that can be considered candidate
extraterrestrial artifacts (ancient, or not so ancient). These
are the so-called "Kassimov ball" - a small (diameter some 4.5
cm) black ball of unknown origin, found in Central Russia in
1983 on the depth 7 meters, in a layer of pure red clay, - and
the remains of a strange object that obviously originated from
space and fell down near Kharkov in 1994 (judging from its
chemical composition, it is neither a meteorite, nor terrestrial
space junk).

     The institute pays considerable attention to the problem of
the Tunguska explosion of 1908. We are studying statistical
parameters of the forest fall area, as well as the
biogeochemical elemental and isotopic anomalies and
population-genetic effects, revealed in the area of the
catastrophe. A state-of-the-art collection of research papers on
the Tunguska problem is now under preparation.

     The Scientific Council and Advisory Board of the Institute
include such Russian and Ukrainian specialists in the UFO
problem and SETI field as Dr. E.A.Ermilov (specialist in radio
detection of aerial anomalous phenomena), Dr. V.N.Fomenko
(investigator of the famous Vashka find, as well as other
supposed ET artifacts), Y.A.Fomin (doyen of UFO studies in
Russia), Dr. L.M.Gindilis (astronomer and SETI expert), Dr.
Y.V.Platov (Vice-Chairman of the Academic UFO Study Group), Dr.
V.K.Zhuravlev (investigator of the Tunguska explosion), and
others. The Advisory Board comprehends also a group of
well-known Western scientists, scholars and engineers -
V.-J.Ballester Olmos (Spain), Dr. T.E.Bullard (USA), Dr.
R.F.Haines (USA), Dr. A.Meessen (Belgium), et al. Dr. Vladimr V.
Rubtsov, Full Member of the CIS Academy of Cosmonautics and one
of pioneers of ufological studies in the former USSR, is
Director of RIAP.

Institute mailing address:

RIAP, P.O.Box 4684, 310022 Kharkov-22, Ukraine.

Internet e-mail address:

<riap777@chat.ru>;

Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/1527/

            __________________________________________
           /    Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes    \
                      Henny van der Pluijm
                      hvdp@worldonline.nl

                       Technology Pages
                http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
             \______________________________________/






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   Mar > Mar 24

                    Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:45:23 PST
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:30:25 -0500
Subject: Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement


Comments On The Joint Statement On SOM 1-01

by

Dr. Robert M. Wood and Ryan S. Wood


Concern about authenticity is always critical to document
examiners, and sometimes provides helpful specifics to assist in
determining genuineness. Unfortunately, the recently posted
piece (Joint Statement) raises no new issues that have not been
discussed in the CD/ROM ("The Secret: Evidence That We Are Not
Alone," 800-845-2151) or in the Website http://thewordis
truth.org.

One must avoid pre-judging a document fake merely because the
provenance is imperfect.  We know that someone photographed a
manual and mailed it to Don Berliner, as stated.  Other
authentication issues of chronology, type details, format are
often critical to provide authentication clues.  None of them
were discussed in the Joint Statement.  Furthermore, it is quite
possible that the original copy that was photographed will be
located and analyzed for dating in a variety of ways.

It is not, however, necessary to test the manual physically to
know that it was produced on a hot lead printing press as
described in our references, clearly using the equipment correct
for the era stated.  This is clear from the details of the type
anomalies (the raised z, for example) as well as the slavish
adherence to the applicable style manual of 1953.

If it is a fake, it is one that was produced on a 1954 monotype
machine. The Joint Statement suggests that it was a fake to
mislead the UFO community. It does not appear to me that the UFO
community is worth such an expensive hoax, even if it could have
been pulled off.

The principal weight of the argument made by the Joint Statement
clearly depends on the signer credentials as persons familiar
with security, communications, and military procedures in three
cases and general familiarity with Government documents with the
other two.  None of the signers mention that they had access to
top secret material in 1954 or have even handled classified
material of that era.  Because security procedures are always
being improved, this makes their perception of what "would have"
been done have low value for this document if it was created in
1954.

It is suggested that "for more specific details, contact the
individuals."  I am familiar with many of the objections raised
in the past, and believe that this topic can not be logically
treated with generalities. We have dealt with each specific
objection raised and have heard no logical argument to counter
them.  These include the obvious ones of restricted and top
secret on the same page, satellites in 1954, radar recognizing
shape, Area 51 existing in 1954, and the absence of document
control.  The Joint Statement primarily seems to be addressing
the security and document control issue. Commenting, therefore
on each paragraph:

(1) "Presidential executive orders established for all agencies"
implies that we would expect to see identical security
procedures wherever one looked.  In fact, there are clear
examples of the CIA and the DoD and the old AEC and the State
Department using different markings and procedures in this era.
Today, many things may be the same, but we are talking about
1954.  It is true there is no internal evidence to show that the
copy that was photographed had a copy control number, but it was
issued to Kirtland AFB.  If it were the only one at Kirtland,
that would be a control.

(2) Simply saying that it "could equally well be interpreted as
a cut-and-paste job" has no bearing on whether it was.  We
should be looking for evidence, not speculation, in document
authentication.  We are eagerly collecting known fake documents
that have fooled questioned document examiners because there are
so few.

(3) The Joint Statement authors offer their opinion that the
manual "would have no reason to include=85"   On the contrary, it
is easy to imagine (a) that the leaders had found that all
people hunger for a bit of history on this topic and they didn=92t
want have the troops waste time in speculation; (b) they needed
a chart of UFO types to get a feeling for what they might be up
against; (c) there really wasn=92t any radar information =97 it just
said that radar had determined the shapes and sizes to be this
or that; (d) the list of phenomena was provided (actually, all
unclassified) so that they were not fooled themselves if they
were in the field.  These are my "could have" comments that
counter the "would have" comments.  All of them are speculation:
first, theirs =97 now, mine.  Speculation is not usually an
effective authentication technique.

(4) This military manual clearly is trying to tell the troops or
civilian personnel (if they were CIA) in the field how to go
out, recover the parts, the bodies, where to send them, and how
to keep the public in the dark. Personnel and equipment
requirements need not go in an instruction manual. The people
reading it were selected to read it and do the job.  It is not
clear to me why the methods of recovery and site security are
inadequate and tactically unsound.  Without specifics, one can
hardly have a discussion.  If regulation, material, and training
publication references are always required by DoD manuals,
perhaps this strongly suggests that it was a CIA manual, and
they decided not to bother with those items.

There are many exceptions to procedures over the years.
Furthermore, the statement that implies that the CIA and the DoD
have identical security procedures is patently false.

We would welcome a point by point discussion of specific
objections, but I think that my partner Ryan Wood and I have
already dealt with the most important concerns raised over the
years.  It is certainly true that locating the copy that was
photographed will add much value to the provenance.  Even
without that, the evidence is overwhelming that this manual was
produced on a 1954 era press.  We are unaware of "serious
problems with MJ-12 related documents" as such problems might
apply to SOM 1-01, which is the topic of discussion here.

It is unclear which fake documents are implied or how they
relate to this questioned document examination, but we certainly
agree that we need to keep the scholarship levels high and peer
review standards objective.

Sincerely,

Dr. Robert M. Wood and Ryan S. Wood






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   Mar > Mar 25

                          Re: Crop Circle Studies?

From: Debbie Foch <coordinator@cseti.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:30:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:22:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Crop Circle Studies?


>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:30:43 -0500
>From: Sue Lawrence <NevadaFighter@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Crop Circle Studies?
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Hi List

>Is anyone here aware of any groups that conducted scientific
>tests on all of the Wiltshire formations last year? If so, what
>tests were carried out?

>Thanks, Sue


Hi Sue,

Possibly Ron Russell, at www.cropcircles.org

- Debbie







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   Mar > Mar 25

                        UFO Call Logging Methodology

From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:52:01 PST
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:29:17 -0500
Subject: UFO Call Logging Methodology


Hi The Keith Baskerfield Network (and UFO UpDates and
affiliates),

Diane, whilst you were away I offered to Jan my suggestion for
making the long term archival searching easier for UFO
researchers by slightly changing the call logging numbering
method. Jan said that she would raise it with you on your
return.

My suggestion was that the actual call numbers (00061, 62, etc.)
be prefixed by a year and month code of the call having been
originally logged (e.g. 1999/2/). This could make it far easier
for someone long into the future to readily search through files
manually (as well as computerised databases) by knowing what
year and month they may want to search for.

If such a method could be applied as a standard amongst various
ufo research groups then perhaps even the year prefix could be
prefixed by a research group code, e.g. TKBN/1999/2/00061. This
could even be of assistance for visiting researchers who know
that a standard means they do not necessarily need to know a
filing method for each UFO group they may need to visit.

When you consider that every major airport in the world is
recognizable via a three letter code then surely each UFO
research group can be as well.  If this code is used as a
standard referencing technique then whenever a particular call
is quoted world-wide every group would know which group took the
call and when, as well as where to find the original log sheet
in the files of the originating group.

Perhaps a professional standardization method is a good start
toward getting all the groups to pull together in the same
general direction.

Regards,
Leanne  ];-)






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                   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:19:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:34:56 -0500
Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France


UpDates List!

I passed the message regarding Fonck's abduction to my Father,
Alfred Lehmberg Jr, an amateur authority on WWI aviation. Here
was his reply to me:

Alfred Lehmberg Jr. wrote:

>Alfred Lehmberg III wrote:

>>Look at item three on the attachment. Had you ever heard of
>>this?

>---------------------------------------------------------------

>Some of these reporters make one ponder!  Fonck, the leading
>French ace (a half dozen less than Richthoven) died in an
>aircraft accident in 1953.  Guynemer, the #2 French ace, died
>in 1917.  He flew alone, so no one saw him go down.  He went
>over the German lines and disappeared.

>The school kids of France, good Catholics, believed he "flew
>into a cloud and joined the angels."  The propoganda artists
>didn't discourage the story.  The flying saucer angle sounds
>like one of von Daniken's  tales of wonder....

>El Primo

>Email Fred at:
>lehmberg@awwwsome.com

>Explore Fred's World?
>http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html

>May you have fair winds and a clear star to steer by.

--
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more.
Consider Matter, Mind & Movement.
See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration.
Take a ride in the Teleporter.

Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
<Updated 22 March>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$250.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.





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   Mar > Mar 25

                         Re: Latest Update From RPIT

From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:30:55 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:56:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Latest Update From RPIT

[Non-Subscriber Post]

>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:24:00 -0800
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
>Subject: Latest Update From RPIT

>All,

>I've today revised and updated the Ramey Message page in the
>RPIT section of my website. My regular visitor from the Goddard
>Space Flight Centre just missed this one so I hope he or she
>reads this.<g>

>http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/new-1/index.htm


>As said, the new findings concern the Ramey Message, not I
>regret any new words, though a couple of minor "modifications"
>have been made, but what could be equally important in the
>discovery of the origin of the message.

>At the top left of the message Gen Ramey is holding in the
>picture taken in his office that July afternoon can be made out,
>a "crest/emblem" of some discription, I think we are now a
>little nearer discovering just what that feature is.

>This last weekend I took another look at this feature from yet
>another scan of the area, this time I have managed to get a
>little more detail and feel a few conclusions can be drawn from
>them.

>The feature turns out to be circular in nature with a
>distinctive "double" outer rim, I had seen this before just that
>day while going through some FOIA documents, what I had seen
>earlier was a 1950 document holding the official seal, in the
>self same place, of the US Dept of Defence, I include this in
>the attached image.

>The mock-up of my interpretation of features on the seal in the
>Ramey message has been constructed around another DOD seal from
>1950, that of the Air Force Headquarters. The eagle is that from
>the DOD seal and the arrowhead is the feature itself from the
>original image. The scale of ratio of inner and outer seal edges
>(the tramlines) seems an extreamly good fit when this is scaled
>and placed over the original image.

>The other feature of note in the mock-up is the word "COMBAT",
>this can be made out (just) and follows the "tramlines" round
>from the 5 o'clock position throught to aprox 3 o'clock in the
>image seal.

>I hope those on UpDates with a background in military documents
>of that time might have enough here with the distinctive
>arrowhead/ aerofoil shape plus the placement of this word to
>identify just which outfit used this seal, we just might then
>learn who was really calling the shots that afternoon?.


Dear Neil,

I know you've put a tremendous amount of effort into the study
and presentation of the Ramey photos, particularly the Ramey
Telegram, and I sincerely appreciate all of your efforts. Your
website definitely has the most interesting presentation of
digitized photos, blowups, and attempted readings of text and
interpretations of symbols.

Since I am involved in an intense photogrammetric analysis of
the Trent/McMinnville photos, culminating some 27 years of
research into that stereo pair of images, I am in a
"photogrammetric" frame of mind. So when I saw your latest
posting that was forwarded to me (I don't scan UFO UpDates
because the effort is too tedious and draining) I couldn't help
but apply what I'm doing with the Trent pictures to your
interpretation of the Ramey Telegram.

I am sorry to have to be the one to present the bad news to you
since that means I'm the one who will have to suffer the abuse
and tirades from die-hard fanatics who are not interested in
cold hard scientific facts. No one else has come to the fore to
speak up on the actual photogrammetric facts that regrettably
refute your entire analysis of the Ramey Telegram.

First of all, the Ramey Telegram is folded in quarters, no one
disputes that I hope, otherwise we can just speculate about
moonbeams and fairy dust. The lower half of the telegram that
faces the camera nearly perpendicularly is approximately 3 x 8
inches, judging from the size of Ramey's thumb holding it, but
the exact dimensions are not as relevant as the relative
proportions. This means the entire telegram is about 6 x 8
inches in size.

Second, the upper half of the telegram is bent outward away from
the camera at a _steep_angle_ in some places more than 87
degrees away, making it impossible to see any text or symbols in
those places. At the place where you have superimposed a
slightly tilted military seal over the telegram image, to the
left of Ramey's thumb, the paper is tilted away from the camera
at a much steeper inclination angle of about 78 _degrees_. Yet
your circular seal, which measures about 1.2 inches in diameter
judging from the scale set by the lower half of the telegram, is
tilted at only about 45 degrees. The tilt or "pitch" angles do
not match even closely, making it impossible for your proposed
image to be projected correctly. Moreover you have your seal
rotated counterclockwise about 30 degrees from the horizontal
defined by the top edge of the paper closest to where you
imagine you see an "eagle." That makes it doubly impossible for
your projection to be correct. Your projected military seal is
completely skewed.

Third, what this means is that when your circular seal is
projected onto such a steeply tilted paper, with the bottom
beginning exactly at the telegram's half-way fold, that it will
be approximately 1.2 inches wide but about 3.5 inches tall or
_right_off_the_top_edge_of_the_3-inch_half_of_the_paper_as a
glance will show. This is trigonometrically 1.2 (cos 45)(cos
30)/cos 78 = 3.5 inches (approx.).

Obviously a _circular_ seal cannot be 1.2 inches wide and 3.5
inches high! It has to be the same diameter all way around. Your
eagle is quite evidently intended to be only about 0.25 inch
high. Yet if it was projected at such a skewed angle as you have
it onto such a nearly glancing-angle paper, it would be about
1.1 inches high or more than _one-third_ of the
_top_half_of_the_telegram_, which is obviously absurd as the
following will demonstrate: Since the bottom half has 8 lines of
written text, the top half should likewise have several lines of
text not some monstrous distorted eagle image covering more than
a third of the height. The right wingtip of the eagle would come
to within 0.2 inch of the top edge of the paper, which leaves no
room for the circular margin of the seal. Then the 1.1 inches
would extend down to the left-hand arrows clutched by the eagle
because the image is crooked. The eagle in this distorted
projection is almost the size of the seal itself!!!!

Fourth, what you claim is the word "COMBAT" in the seal would
stretch about 3 _inches_ diagonally from the "C" to the "T," or
about 1.8 inches in height vertically which is
_nearly_two-thirds_ of the _top_half_ of the telegram, and again
that is absurd.

What you are interpreting as an "eagle" from a U.S. Defense Dept
seal is in fact a block of film grains representing about 4
lines of teletype text cutting across at a skewed angle. It is
_not_ an image or symbol.

Again I'm sorry about the bad news. BTW, in case anyone is
interested, I am positive that I could read most of the bottom
half of the Ramey Telegram if I had a high-quality
first-generation _film_ blowup of the image made directly from
the original negative, NOT a digitized image. I first tried this
in 1985 and was immediately able to read the word "BALLOON"
among others. I developed a special image analysis technique
enabling me to do this, but it doesn't work with digitized
images which among other things does not fully register all of
the fine image detail in film. However, I do not have the time
or resources to try to obtain the first-generation enlargement
that would be needed. I contacted the Univ of Texas in 1997 but
found what they offered was inadequate and prohibitive in cost.

Regards,

Brad Sparks

(c) Copyright 1999 by Brad Sparks







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                  Re: Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement

From: Stephen Chriss <stephen195@gigileung.org>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:14:07 +0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:59:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement

[Non-Subscriber Post]

>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@hotmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:45:23 PST

>Comments On The Joint Statement On SOM 1-01

>by

>Dr. Robert M. Wood and Ryan S. Wood

>Concern about authenticity is always critical to document
>examiners, and sometimes provides helpful specifics to assist in
>determining genuineness. Unfortunately, the recently posted
>piece (Joint Statement) raises no new issues that have not been
>discussed in the CD/ROM ("The Secret: Evidence That We Are Not
>Alone," 800-845-2151) or in the Website http://thewordis
>truth.org.

<snip>

I can't comment on most of the comments of the Woods, but there
are two points that I take issue with.

(1) Rather than being expensive, it is quite reasonable to have
typesetting done on Monotype hot metal composing machines these
days. The bulk of them are in the hands of hobbyists and small
(and for all practical purposes, nonprofit) presses. The last
big commercial plant that used Monotypes was the Government
Printing Office, which switched to phototypography in 1982, and
their entire plant was essentially auctioned off at scrap metal
prices.

(2) The SOM 1-01 manual does not slavishly adhere to the 1953
GPO Style Manual as stated. The most obvious problem is the
slavish disregard of the Style Manual's rules relating to
so-called "en-dashes," which should be used in place of hyphens
in sequences of numbers and between any two uppercase letters.
The SOM 1-01 consistently uses garden-variety hyphens in such
cases, which are about half the width of the en-dash and a
quarter of the width of the em-dash in the font in question; the
difference should be obviously distinguishable even in a
photocopy.

SC






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                   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

From: Joe Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:12:42 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:04:52 -0500
Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

Dear List:


One thing bothered me about the original 1917 Western Front
"quotation".  The text mentions the presence of "Mr. Churchill",
obviously Winston S. Churchill at the scene.  Yet in September
1917, Churchill had left the War Cabinet, become a Colonel in
the British Army and taken command of a regiment in Belgium,
which he led through the battle of Passchendaele in November
1917.

Well, thanks to our sharp-eyed friend Gary Alevy, that's one
conundrum we don't have to worry about any more.  Lou F.
Lirpa...April F Uol backwards.  Good job, Gary!

Whoever concocted this hoax has a good working knowledge of the
UFO scene back in 1917 and some familiarity with the U.S. Army's
World War One 'Table Of Organization'.


Joe Trainor





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                  Re: Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:07:08 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:11:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement


>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@hotmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:45:23 PST


>Comments On The Joint Statement On SOM 1-01

>by

>Dr. Robert M. Wood and Ryan S. Wood


>Concern about authenticity is always critical to document
>examiners, and sometimes provides helpful specifics to assist in
>determining genuineness. Unfortunately, the recently posted
>piece (Joint Statement) raises no new issues that have not been
>discussed in the CD/ROM ("The Secret: Evidence That We Are Not
>Alone," 800-845-2151) or in the Website http://thewordis
>truth.org.

Which doesn't make those issues inaccurate or incorrect. The
Joint Statement does reflect a long term examination of the
manual that included the man to which it had been sent. If
anyone had a motive for endorsing the manual as authentic, it
would seem that Don Berliner would be that man. Instead, and to
his credit, he has rejected the manual as a fake.

It is more likely, just as in the original MJ-12 documents, that
no one will ever find an original. In more than 15 years of
searching for anything that relates to MJ-12, from a solid
source, no one has found any corroboration for it. We just have
more questioned documents that can't be traced in any fashion to
any government agency. That should give us some clues about the
value of these documents.

>One must avoid pre-judging a document fake merely because the
>provenance is imperfect.  We know that someone photographed a
>manual and mailed it to Don Berliner, as stated.  Other
>authentication issues of chronology, type details, format are
>often critical to provide authentication clues.  None of them
>were discussed in the Joint Statement.  Furthermore, it is quite
>possible that the original copy that was photographed will be
>located and analyzed for dating in a variety of ways.

We must always be aware that many of the most notorious of the
faked documents have some device to prevent an examination of
the original. An original that could provide proof that the
document is a fake.

Further, we don't know that someone photographed a manual and
sent it to Don Berliner. What we really know is that someone
photographed a cover and some pages that were allegedly part of
a manual. We don't have the complete document so we don't know
exactly what was photographed.

>It is not, however, necessary to test the manual physically to
>know that it was produced on a hot lead printing press as
>described in our references, clearly using the equipment correct
>for the era stated.  This is clear from the details of the type
>anomalies (the raised z, for example) as well as the slavish
>adherence to the applicable style manual of 1953.

But we have just learned recently that Tim Cooper's typewriter
suffered from the same raised letter problem. Isn't that an
interesting coincidence?

And I found no raised z's in my copy of the manual, but then, my
copy is very poor.

>If it is a fake, it is one that was produced on a 1954 monotype
>machine. The Joint Statement suggests that it was a fake to
>mislead the UFO community. It does not appear to me that the UFO
>community is worth such an expensive hoax, even if it could have
>been pulled off.

The assumption here is that if it is a hoax, it would be
expensive. However, in today's world, computer technology can do
amazing things. Such a hoax might not be expensive. This isn't a
particularly persuasive argument.

>The principal weight of the argument made by the Joint Statement
>clearly depends on the signer credentials as persons familiar
>with security, communications, and military procedures in three
>cases and general familiarity with Government documents with the
>other two.  None of the signers mention that they had access to
>top secret material in 1954 or have even handled classified
>material of that era.  Because security procedures are always
>being improved, this makes their perception of what "would have"
>been done have low value for this document if it was created in
>1954.

This is a red herring. If we follow the logic to the final
conclusion, then only those who were there could possibly
understand the situation as it existed in 1954, and we can toss
out expert testimony. Having reviewed the appropriate documents,
having spent years dealing with government bureaucracies at the
highest levels provides a background for these people to draw
conclusions about the legitimacy of the manual.

Besides, access to documents of the era does exist. I would
think that Dr. Herbert L. Pankratz of the Eisenhower Library,
who wrote to me that, "The classification markings on the
alleged MJ-12 document are not consistent with federal
regulations for the marking of classified materials as of April
1954," would be someone who has dealt with documents from that
era. This seems to be a fairly persuasive statement from a man
who should know, who has handled many documents from the proper
era, and who can make such a statement with confidence. This
mistake alone should suggest that the manual is a fake. Dr.
Pankratz pointed out other errors on just the cover.

>It is suggested that "for more specific details, contact the
>individuals."  I am familiar with many of the objections raised
>in the past, and believe that this topic can not be logically
>treated with generalities. We have dealt with each specific
>objection raised and have heard no logical argument to counter
>them.  These include the obvious ones of restricted and top
>secret on the same page, satellites in 1954, radar recognizing
>shape, Area 51 existing in 1954, and the absence of document
>control.  The Joint Statement primarily seems to be addressing
>the security and document control issue. Commenting, therefore
>on each paragraph:

But to suggest that Area 51 _might_ have appeared on a map in
1954 is not the same as suggesting that material be taken to a
base that wasn't even built until after 1955. The facilities at
Groom Lake were in civilian hands in 1954. This is but a single
example of the anachronisms that suggest the manual is faked.

>(1) "Presidential executive orders established for all agencies"
>implies that we would expect to see identical security
>procedures wherever one looked.  In fact, there are clear
>examples of the CIA and the DoD and the old AEC and the State
>Department using different markings and procedures in this era.
>Today, many things may be the same, but we are talking about
>1954.  It is true there is no internal evidence to show that the
>copy that was photographed had a copy control number, but it was
>issued to Kirtland AFB.  If it were the only one at Kirtland,
>that would be a control.

This is simply not the way it worked in 1954 or the way it works
today. The purpose of the control number is to account for all
the documents, even if there was only ONE at Kirtland. The
control number is applied by the creating agency and not by the
recipient.

>(2) Simply saying that it "could equally well be interpreted as
>a cut-and-paste job" has no bearing on whether it was.  We
>should be looking for evidence, not speculation, in document
>authentication.  We are eagerly collecting known fake documents
>that have fooled questioned document examiners because there are
>so few.

But all we get is speculation. Area 51 might have appeared on a
map so it might be appropriate to refer to it in the manual.
Let's have some evidence that there was a facility labeled as
Area 51 in existence in 1954 and that it could receive highly
classified materials.

>(3) The Joint Statement authors offer their opinion that the
>manual "would have no reason to include=85"   On the contrary, it
>is easy to imagine (a) that the leaders had found that all
>people hunger for a bit of history on this topic and they didn't
>want have the troops waste time in speculation; (b) they needed
>a chart of UFO types to get a feeling for what they might be up
>against; =A9 there really wasn't any radar information =97 it just
>said that radar had determined the shapes and sizes to be this
>or that; (d) the list of phenomena was provided (actually, all
>unclassified) so that they were not fooled themselves if they
>were in the field.  These are my "could have" comments that
>counter the "would have" comments.  All of them are speculation:
>first, theirs =97 now, mine.  Speculation is not usually an
>effective authentication technique.

Haven't we just been lectured on speculation and suddenly we are
told, "...it is easy to imagine..." This is speculation and
rationalization as to why inappropriate materials would be put
into the manual. "Speculation is not usually an effective
authentication technique."

>(4) This military manual clearly is trying to tell the troops or
>civilian personnel (if they were CIA) in the field how to go
>out, recover the parts, the bodies, where to send them, and how
>to keep the public in the dark. Personnel and equipment
>requirements need not go in an instruction manual. The people
>reading it were selected to read it and do the job.  It is not
>clear to me why the methods of recovery and site security are
>inadequate and tactically unsound.  Without specifics, one can
>hardly have a discussion.  If regulation, material, and training
>publication references are always required by DoD manuals,
>perhaps this strongly suggests that it was a CIA manual, and
>they decided not to bother with those items.

When compared to other manuals that actually explain how to
secure sites of aircraft accidents, or if nuclear weapons are
involved, we find more detailed information.

And, if this was a CIA manual, it would not have a War
Department seal on the front... which is another of the
anachronisms.

>There are many exceptions to procedures over the years.
>Furthermore, the statement that implies that the CIA and the DoD
>have identical security procedures is patently false.

The CIA is brought into the discussion improperly. There is no
evidence that MJ-12 is part of the CIA. The manual is supposed
to be from the Army or Air Force as suggested by the
nomenclature. So let's not speculate that CIA is relevant here.

>We would welcome a point by point discussion of specific
>objections, but I think that my partner Ryan Wood and I have
>already dealt with the most important concerns raised over the
>years.  It is certainly true that locating the copy that was
>photographed will add much value to the provenance.  Even
>without that, the evidence is overwhelming that this manual was
>produced on a 1954 era press.  We are unaware of "serious
>problems with MJ-12 related documents" as such problems might
>apply to SOM 1-01, which is the topic of discussion here.

Unaware? You mean like the questioned document expert who told
Stan Friedman that the Truman signature on the memo with the
Eisenhower Briefing was lifted from another document. No, the
argument of a multiple pen arrangement does not wash because the
cross on the top of the "T" has been modified slightly by the
forger. This is proof that the memo is a fake.

>It is unclear which fake documents are implied or how they
>relate to this questioned document examination, but we certainly
>agree that we need to keep the scholarship levels high and
>peer review standards objective.

>Sincerely,

>Dr. Robert M. Wood and Ryan S. Wood

As for which documents are fake, how about the Aquarius Telex
that Bill Moore admitted to retyping and pasting of headings?
Moore said that he couldn't easily read the telex so he retyped
it and pasted on headings.

How about the MJ-5/CIA memo that is almost universally believed
to be faked?

How about the Eisenhower Briefing with it's incorrect dating
format, wrong ranks, and a situation as it was believed to exist
in the 1980s that is not consistent with the evidence today.

Sorry, but I have to agree with the authors of the Joint
Statement. There is nothing in the manual that suggests it is
authentic and a great deal to suggest that it is a fraud.
Besides, I would like to see someone produce a single manual
that was ever marked as "Eyes Only." Sorry, that doesn't wash at
all.

KRandle





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 25

                          Budd Hopkins Chat On AOL

From: Parascope <NYMush@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:53:11 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:15:25 -0500
Subject: Budd Hopkins Chat On AOL


Budd Hopkins, pioneer abduction researcher and author of Missing
Time, Intruders and Witnessed - The True Story of the Brooklyn
Bridge UFO Abductions, will be our special chat guest in
ParaScope's Situation Room (ECR) on Saturday, March 27, 1999 at
10pmET.

Budd will also provide information about the upcoming Intruders
Foundation UFO Abduction Conference to be held in New York City
on April 10, 1999.

You can view the Intruders Foundation website at:

http://www.if-aic.com

or email the Intruders Foundation at IFconfer@aol.com for more
info on the conference.

Please join us for what should be a most interesting chat! (To
get to the chat, Keyword:Parascope - then click on "chat" - on
left screen, click on Situation room)






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 26

                           Michael Wolf's Samples

From: Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc <mbalien@tin.it>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:47:52 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:00:54 -0500
Subject: Michael Wolf's Samples


Michael Wolf is right
by
Adriano Forgione (Italy)


On 23 March, we received news of Sims's lab results carried out
on Michael Wolf's sample sent to Bill Hamilton. The report
states that the sample is only made out of pure silicon and and
no ET element.

Last August, Paola Harris and myself visited doctor Wolf in his
flat in Connecticut and spent two days with him, having the
chance to verify his degrees and credentials.

Wolf gave us then three samples.

Paola Harris sent one of them to William Hamilton and we brought
the other two in Italy for analysis.

On giving us the samples, Wolf told us that they were mostly
made out of silicon and a 0.01% of extraterrestrial isotopes. We
have not mentioned this to anyone and no one in Italy is
informed of the material in our hands.

Maurizio Baiata and myself wish that the analysis be conducted
most secretely and that even the laboratories would not know the
origin of the samples, neither what Wolf had told us.

Curiously enough, the results of the two different laboratories
reached us on the same day of Bill Hamilton's report. They are
opposed to Sims' results and match entirely with Wolf's
statements.

Please feel free to do your own consideration, but I assure you
that the laboratories are highly qualified, without a shadow of
doubt.

We thought we should first translate the report into English
before releasing the results, but we feel urged to report the
primary findings, considering Derrel Sims' statement. We will
post the whole report via Internet.

The following is the the letter we have sent to Bill Hamilton to
remedy to his misjudgement towards Michael Wolf.

---

Dear Bill,

I have read your report of the lab results of Michael Wolf's
sample. I believe that the message has been sent a little bit
too much on a rush as you knew that we were conducting the same
analysis on the same samples in Italy and we had agreed to
compare the results.

Fortunately, the case doesn't exist and the very same day of
your communication I received the results from two independent
laboratories involved in the testing of our sample. They'll be
soon translated in english, and therefore I'll only mention the
first results (different from Sims and Leir's) and in the next
ten days I'll release the whole lab results in English.

I must say that the two above laboratories are extremely
specialized: the first, being the Chemical Department of the
University of Pisa, whose director is Corrado Malanga, and the
second one being specialized in Physical Electronics and in
Semiconductors for missiles. They are extremely qualified
institutes with specialized equipment in testing this type of
samples and determine their origins.

The University of Pisa has found out that the sample has boiled
out at a temperature higher than 3.300 kelvin degrees and it is
composed mostly of pure silicon even though the technicians
couldn't detect the other isotopic percentages.

Therefore, the first result is that the fragment has undergone a
heating source which has caused the sample to boil out and
modify its aggregated structure.

We also received the investigation of the second laboratory
which is fundamental in understanding what we are actually
testing. The equipment of the Physical Electronics Laboratory
have tested the sample in every possible way, comparing it as
well to the silicon used in the missiles elements (the two
samples were completely different). The only test being not
carried out is the destructive analysis of the sample.

Take it easy, Bill: the following contradicts with Sims'
results.

The sample is made out of 99.9% pure silicon and 0.01% isotopes
which even the most advanced laboratory devices cannot detect.
Mr. Zuccarini, the engineer who has conducted the analysis, has
confirmed that if that 0.01% is a material or an isotope which,
if it were known, should have been detected by the lab devices,
but this is not the case and the lab technicians have defined it
as "unknown".

This is identical with what Wolf told me on August 1998 when he
gave me the two samples (Wolf told me that the 0.01% is an ET
isotope).

I must say that this detail has never been revealed to the
laboratories involved in the testing. Therefore, the results
were only the fruits of accurate research.

Considering that they are identical with Wolf's statements, the
above confirms his trustworthiness and credibility and
everything he has revealed so far.

We, Paola Harris and myself, have spent with him two days and
this has given me the chance to verify his credentials and,
today, those results further increase the value of all his
sayings. Not only the sample contains an unknown isotope
percentage but the high temperature undergone is coeherent with
the possibility that it may come from a UFO crash.

I don'k know where Leir and Sims have conducted their tests, but
they probably didn't have the equipment that could detect that
0.01 unknown percentage.

Wolf is still reliable and I an convinced that he is a superior
and sensitive mind.

The results represent a further step towards the UFO research
and demonstrate that the truth should be searched deep inside.
We'll release the analysis. Thank you, Dr. Michael Wolf.

I look forward that the above will be released to Skywatch
International.

Sincerely,

Adriano Forgione
Independent Researcher
Head Journalis of "Notiziario UFO" and "Dossier Alieni"

P.S. Please feel free to write me to: mbalien@tin.it





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 26

                         Re: Latest Update From RPIT

From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:12:36 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:54:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Latest Update From RPIT


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:30:55 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net, neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk
>Subject: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest Update From RPIT

>[Non-Subscriber Post]

>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:24:00 -0800
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
>>Subject: Latest Update From RPIT


Dear Brad and All on UpDates.

>Dear Neil,

>I know you've put a tremendous amount of effort into the study
>and presentation of the Ramey photos, particularly the Ramey
>Telegram, and I sincerely appreciate all of your efforts. Your
>website definitely has the most interesting presentation of
>digitized photos, blowups, and attempted readings of text and
>interpretations of symbols.


Thanks for your compliments and interest.

>Since I am involved in an intense photogrammetric analysis of
>the Trent/McMinnville photos, culminating some 27 years of
>research into that stereo pair of images, I am in a
>"photogrammetric" frame of mind. So when I saw your latest
>posting that was forwarded to me (I don't scan UFO UpDates
>because the effort is too tedious and draining) I couldn't help
>but apply what I'm doing with the Trent pictures to your
>interpretation of the Ramey Telegram.

>I am sorry to have to be the one to present the bad news to you
>since that means I'm the one who will have to suffer the abuse
>and tirades from die-hard fanatics who are not interested in
>cold hard scientific facts. No one else has come to the fore to
>speak up on the actual photogrammetric facts that regrettably
>refute your entire analysis of the Ramey Telegram.

>First of all, the Ramey Telegram is folded in quarters, no one
>disputes that I hope, otherwise we can just speculate about
>moonbeams and fairy dust. The lower half of the telegram that
>faces the camera nearly perpendicularly is approximately 3 x 8
>inches, judging from the size of Ramey's thumb holding it, but
>the exact dimensions are not as relevant as the relative
>proportions. This means the entire telegram is about 6 x 8
>inches in size.

>Second, the upper half of the telegram is bent outward away from
>the camera at a _steep_angle_ in some places more than 87
>degrees away, making it impossible to see any text or symbols in
>those places. At the place where you have superimposed a
>slightly tilted military seal over the telegram image, to the
>left of Ramey's thumb, the paper is tilted away from the camera
>at a much steeper inclination angle of about 78 _degrees_. Yet
>your circular seal, which measures about 1.2 inches in diameter
>judging from the scale set by the lower half of the telegram, is
>tilted at only about 45 degrees. The tilt or "pitch" angles do
>not match even closely, making it impossible for your proposed
>image to be projected correctly. Moreover you have your seal
>rotated counterclockwise about 30 degrees from the horizontal
>defined by the top edge of the paper closest to where you
>imagine you see an "eagle." That makes it doubly impossible for
>your projection to be correct. Your projected military seal is
>completely skewed.

>Third, what this means is that when your circular seal is
>projected onto such a steeply tilted paper, with the bottom
>beginning exactly at the telegram's half-way fold, that it will
>be approximately 1.2 inches wide but about 3.5 inches tall or
>_right_off_the_top_edge_of_the_3-inch_half_of_the_paper_as a
>glance will show. This is trigonometrically 1.2 (cos 45)(cos
>30)/cos 78 = 3.5 inches (approx.).

>Obviously a _circular_ seal cannot be 1.2 inches wide and 3.5
>inches high! It has to be the same diameter all way around. Your
>eagle is quite evidently intended to be only about 0.25 inch
>high. Yet if it was projected at such a skewed angle as you have
>it onto such a nearly glancing-angle paper, it would be about
>1.1 inches high or more than _one-third_ of the
>_top_half_of_the_telegram_, which is obviously absurd as the
>following will demonstrate: Since the bottom half has 8 lines of
>written text, the top half should likewise have several lines of
>text not some monstrous distorted eagle image covering more than
>a third of the height. The right wingtip of the eagle would come
>to within 0.2 inch of the top edge of the paper, which leaves no
>room for the circular margin of the seal. Then the 1.1 inches
>would extend down to the left-hand arrows clutched by the eagle
>because the image is crooked. The eagle in this distorted
>projection is almost the size of the seal itself!!!!

>Fourth, what you claim is the word "COMBAT" in the seal would
>stretch about 3 _inches_ diagonally from the "C" to the "T," or
>about 1.8 inches in height vertically which is
>_nearly_two-thirds_ of the _top_half_ of the telegram, and again
>that is absurd.

>What you are interpreting as an "eagle" from a U.S. Defense Dept
>seal is in fact a block of film grains representing about 4
>lines of teletype text cutting across at a skewed angle. It is
>_not_ an image or symbol.

>Again I'm sorry about the bad news.

Brad, I commend your math!, _but_ I feel the real world is a
little more "chaotic" than the clean precise relms of
mathamatics and throws us a few "gotcha's" every now and then,
lets just have a look at the message.

It's a folded sheet of paper but they are far from flat
surfaces. In fact if you check the other Ramey/alone shot which
Bond tells me was shot prior to the Ramey/Dubose shot that the
message image comes from, you can see the message partly rolled
and folded in Rameys hand.

The surfaces of the message are lots of folds and curves.

As Ramey holds the message between his thumb and forefinger you
can see that the left side of the message is far less acutely
angled than the right side.

Also you might note that the top left corner of the message is
clearly seen _and_ is almost flat-on to the camera.

In fact, that whole top left corner section is far less acutely
angled than the rest of the top section of the message.

I think because of this chance-way the paper is presented to the
camera, it does just allow that top right corner section to be
read.

This afternoon (over a tea break) I decided to put together a
little experiment to illustrate just what I'm proposing, the
results of which are attached as a composit image.

I put together, with a word processor, a full size mock-up of the
Ramey Message to the sizes Brad mentions - (I feel the message is
actually a little larger in width) 8"x6" - and in the top left
corner I placed a 1.5" circle to act as the seal.

I then folded the message as per the original.

I might add here that I printed the mock-up on standard 80gsm
copy paper and I've concluded by the difficulty I had trying to
reproduce _all_ the bumps, curves and folds of the original,
that the original must have been typed on a _much_ lighter
weight paper which would be far easier to fold and manipulate so
picking up all the apparent surface irregularities. (ie a 65gsm
weight "bank copy" paper, or less).

I'm afraid my B+W webcam is no 'Speedgraphic' but I think the
pictures of the result of the 'mock-up' test do show that it
_is_ possible, given the way the paper is folded and held, for a
circular "Seal" feature to have been located towards the top
left corner of the Ramey Message _and_ for it to be visible in
the Fort Worth photographs.


>BTW, in case anyone is
>interested, I am positive that I could read most of the bottom
>half of the Ramey Telegram if I had a high-quality
>first-generation _film_ blowup of the image made directly from
>the original negative, NOT a digitized image. I first tried this
>in 1985 and was immediately able to read the word "BALLOON"
>among others. I developed a special image analysis technique
>enabling me to do this, but it doesn't work with digitized
>images which among other things does not fully register all of
>the fine image detail in film. However, I do not have the time
>or resources to try to obtain the first-generation enlargement
>that would be needed. I contacted the Univ of Texas in 1997 but
>found what they offered was inadequate and prohibitive in cost.


???
They provide a first generation print direct from the "original"
neg! How closer, other than working with the original neg, can
you get.
???

Even the USAF only managed a first generation dupe-neg with a
lot of arm twisting. If you want a super high res scan (3800dpi)
of the original neg, get Stanton's CD - you can count every
silver grain!.

While we're plugging things <g>...

I'm hoping to have a set of RPIT CDs available sometime soon.

Best Regards

Neil.



-------------------------------------------------------
                     Neil Morris@Home.

Email:             Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk
Web Site:
                  http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/
-------------------------------------------------------






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 26

                         Re: Latest Update From RPIT

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:53:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:53:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Latest Update From RPIT

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:12:36 -0800
To: updates@globalserve.net
From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Latest Update From RPIT


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:30:55 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net, neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk
>Subject: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest Update From RPIT

>[Non-Subscriber Post]

>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:24:00 -0800
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
>>Subject: Latest Update From RPIT


Dear Brad and All on UpDates.

>Dear Neil,

>I know you've put a tremendous amount of effort into the study
>and presentation of the Ramey photos, particularly the Ramey
>Telegram, and I sincerely appreciate all of your efforts. Your
>website definitely has the most interesting presentation of
>digitized photos, blowups, and attempted readings of text and
>interpretations of symbols.


Thanks for your compliments and interest.

>Since I am involved in an intense photogrammetric analysis of
>the Trent/McMinnville photos, culminating some 27 years of
>research into that stereo pair of images, I am in a
>"photogrammetric" frame of mind. So when I saw your latest
>posting that was forwarded to me (I don't scan UFO UpDates
>because the effort is too tedious and draining) I couldn't help
>but apply what I'm doing with the Trent pictures to your
>interpretation of the Ramey Telegram.

>I am sorry to have to be the one to present the bad news to you
>since that means I'm the one who will have to suffer the abuse
>and tirades from die-hard fanatics who are not interested in
>cold hard scientific facts. No one else has come to the fore to
>speak up on the actual photogrammetric facts that regrettably
>refute your entire analysis of the Ramey Telegram.

>First of all, the Ramey Telegram is folded in quarters, no one
>disputes that I hope, otherwise we can just speculate about
>moonbeams and fairy dust. The lower half of the telegram that
>faces the camera nearly perpendicularly is approximately 3 x 8
>inches, judging from the size of Ramey's thumb holding it, but
>the exact dimensions are not as relevant as the relative
>proportions. This means the entire telegram is about 6 x 8
>inches in size.

>Second, the upper half of the telegram is bent outward away from
>the camera at a _steep_angle_ in some places more than 87
>degrees away, making it impossible to see any text or symbols in
>those places. At the place where you have superimposed a
>slightly tilted military seal over the telegram image, to the
>left of Ramey's thumb, the paper is tilted away from the camera
>at a much steeper inclination angle of about 78 _degrees_. Yet
>your circular seal, which measures about 1.2 inches in diameter
>judging from the scale set by the lower half of the telegram, is
>tilted at only about 45 degrees. The tilt or "pitch" angles do
>not match even closely, making it impossible for your proposed
>image to be projected correctly. Moreover you have your seal
>rotated counterclockwise about 30 degrees from the horizontal
>defined by the top edge of the paper closest to where you
>imagine you see an "eagle." That makes it doubly impossible for
>your projection to be correct. Your projected military seal is
>completely skewed.

>Third, what this means is that when your circular seal is
>projected onto such a steeply tilted paper, with the bottom
>beginning exactly at the telegram's half-way fold, that it will
>be approximately 1.2 inches wide but about 3.5 inches tall or
>_right_off_the_top_edge_of_the_3-inch_half_of_the_paper_as a
>glance will show. This is trigonometrically 1.2 (cos 45)(cos
>30)/cos 78 = 3.5 inches (approx.).

>Obviously a _circular_ seal cannot be 1.2 inches wide and 3.5
>inches high! It has to be the same diameter all way around. Your
>eagle is quite evidently intended to be only about 0.25 inch
>high. Yet if it was projected at such a skewed angle as you have
>it onto such a nearly glancing-angle paper, it would be about
>1.1 inches high or more than _one-third_ of the
>_top_half_of_the_telegram_, which is obviously absurd as the
>following will demonstrate: Since the bottom half has 8 lines of
>written text, the top half should likewise have several lines of
>text not some monstrous distorted eagle image covering more than
>a third of the height. The right wingtip of the eagle would come
>to within 0.2 inch of the top edge of the paper, which leaves no
>room for the circular margin of the seal. Then the 1.1 inches
>would extend down to the left-hand arrows clutched by the eagle
>because the image is crooked. The eagle in this distorted
>projection is almost the size of the seal itself!!!!

>Fourth, what you claim is the word "COMBAT" in the seal would
>stretch about 3 _inches_ diagonally from the "C" to the "T," or
>about 1.8 inches in height vertically which is
>_nearly_two-thirds_ of the _top_half_ of the telegram, and again
>that is absurd.

>What you are interpreting as an "eagle" from a U.S. Defense Dept
>seal is in fact a block of film grains representing about 4
>lines of teletype text cutting across at a skewed angle. It is
>_not_ an image or symbol.

>Again I'm sorry about the bad news.

Brad, I commend your math!, _but_ I feel the real world is a
little more "chaotic" than the clean precise relms of
mathamatics and throws us a few "gotcha's" every now and then,
lets just have a look at the message.

It's a folded sheet of paper but they are far from flat
surfaces. In fact if you check the other Ramey/alone shot which
Bond tells me was shot prior to the Ramey/Dubose shot that the
message image comes from, you can see the message partly rolled
and folded in Rameys hand.

The surfaces of the message are lots of folds and curves.

As Ramey holds the message between his thumb and forefinger you
can see that the left side of the message is far less acutely
angled than the right side.

Also you might note that the top left corner of the message is
clearly seen _and_ is almost flat-on to the camera.

In fact, that whole top left corner section is far less acutely
angled than the rest of the top section of the message.

I think because of this chance-way the paper is presented to the
camera, it does just allow that top right corner section to be
read.

This afternoon (over a tea break) I decided to put together a
little experiment to illustrate just what I'm proposing, the
results of which are attached as a composit image.

I put together, with a word processor, a full size mock-up of the
Ramey Message to the sizes Brad mentions - (I feel the message is
actually a little larger in width) 8"x6" - and in the top left
corner I placed a 1.5" circle to act as the seal.

I then folded the message as per the original.

I might add here that I printed the mock-up on standard 80gsm
copy paper and I've concluded by the difficulty I had trying to
reproduce _all_ the bumps, curves and folds of the original,
that the original must have been typed on a _much_ lighter
weight paper which would be far easier to fold and manipulate so
picking up all the apparent surface irregularities. (ie a 65gsm
weight "bank copy" paper, or less).

I'm afraid my B+W webcam is no 'Speedgraphic' but I think the
pictures of the result of the 'mock-up' test do show that it
_is_ possible, given the way the paper is folded and held, for a
circular "Seal" feature to have been located towards the top
left corner of the Ramey Message _and_ for it to be visible in
the Fort Worth photographs.


>BTW, in case anyone is
>interested, I am positive that I could read most of the bottom
>half of the Ramey Telegram if I had a high-quality
>first-generation _film_ blowup of the image made directly from
>the original negative, NOT a digitized image. I first tried this
>in 1985 and was immediately able to read the word "BALLOON"
>among others. I developed a special image analysis technique
>enabling me to do this, but it doesn't work with digitized
>images which among other things does not fully register all of
>the fine image detail in film. However, I do not have the time
>or resources to try to obtain the first-generation enlargement
>that would be needed. I contacted the Univ of Texas in 1997 but
>found what they offered was inadequate and prohibitive in cost.


???
They provide a first generation print direct from the "original"
neg! How closer, other than working with the original neg, can
you get.
???

Even the USAF only managed a first generation dupe-neg with a
lot of arm twisting. If you want a super high res scan (3800dpi)
of the original neg, get Stanton's CD - you can count every
silver grain!.

While we're plugging things <g>...

I'm hoping to have a set of RPIT CDs available sometime soon.

Best Regards

Neil.



-------------------------------------------------------
                     Neil Morris@Home.

Email:             Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk
Web Site:
                  http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/
-------------------------------------------------------





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 26

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:56:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:02:03 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:55:57 -0800
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>>From: Kathleen Anderson <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 01:00:14 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>>>Date: 3/21/99 9:00:37 PM
>>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>>>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

A great and mighty ...

<snip>

Call it intuition if you like, but I can't help thinking there
may be some connection to CJD (Mad Cow Disease) here.

I'm assuming, of course, that it isn't a hoax when I say this.

Maybe the elk in question was removed from the herd to be tested
or worse yet, infected.

There was mention made of a dead elk found shortly afterward and
though it wasn't clear if it was the same one, it might be
worthwhile to test it for CJD, if there is a test for it. The
fact that this disease can occur in herbivores that do not
generally eat each other's remains baffles me.

Would anyone care to comment on this and perhaps tell me a
little about elk CJD in the proccess?

Cheers,

Rick Goldsmith






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   Mar > Mar 26

                   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:00:13 PST
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:45:06 -0500
Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France


>From: Joe Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:12:42 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

>Dear List:

G'day Joe & List,

>One thing bothered me about the original 1917 Western Front
>"quotation".  The text mentions the presence of "Mr. Churchill",
>obviously Winston S. Churchill at the scene.  Yet in September
>1917, Churchill had left the War Cabinet, become a Colonel in
>the British Army and taken command of a regiment in Belgium,
>which he led through the battle of Passchendaele in November
>1917.

>Well, thanks to our sharp-eyed friend Gary Alevy, that's one
>conundrum we don't have to worry about any more.  Lou F.
>Lirpa...April F Uol backwards.  Good job, Gary!

>Whoever concocted this hoax has a good working knowledge of the
>UFO scene back in 1917 and some familiarity with the U.S. Army's
>World War One 'Table Of Organization'.

The only person I know of close to being _that_ old is James
Bond Johnson . . .   ];-)

>Joe Trainor

Regards,

Leanne  ];-)





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   Mar > Mar 26

                   Gordon Novel's Possible 'Connections'?

From: Bob Soetebier <bikebob@mo.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:47:55 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:57:36 -0500
Subject: Gordon Novel's Possible 'Connections'?


There is a very interesting picture in the December 5th, 1994,
issue of Jim Moseley's (notorious) "Saucer Smear."  The picture
is captioned, in italics, as follows:


"Left to right: Retired colonel John Alexander of Los Alamos
National Laboratories; the super-mysterious Gordon Novel; and
John's wife Victoria."


The three of them are pictured seated shoulder-to-shoulder, in
the order noted above.

The picture is immediately preceded by the following (reproduced
verbatim):

-----

CHARLES BROERMAN writes:

"Thanks for the latest copy of 'Saucer Smear.' It was
interesting to read another letter from creepy John Alexander.
He assumes we need a police state - the only choice we have is
to be shot on sight or kept in live 'non-lethally'. It's nice to
know our commissars see the L.A riot/rebellion as only a taste
of the future. Maybe there's hope yet. And what a waste of time
his wife's survey of religious leaders was. Who really cares
what the local pastor thinks about 'the phenomenon'. On the
other hand, it would be interesting to know more about this
Bigelow guy and his foundation! Maybe you could get your pal
Curtis Peebles on the case. As William Burroughs said - Paranoia
is having all the facts!..."


-----------------------------------------------------------

The above-noted issue of Jim Moseley's "Saucer Smear" is available
on-line via the following Internet web-site URL:

http://www.martiansgohome.com/smear/v41/ss941205.htm


Charles Broerman's letter (and the possible "smoking-gun" picture of
John Alexander and Gordon Novel seated together, along with
Alexander's wife) is in the "Missives from the Masses" section of the
Dec. 5, 1994 issue of "Saucer Smear."

----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------

The following (referring to John Lear, Jr.) is taken (verbatim)
from p.p. 122-123 in Chapter 17 (titled: "Disinfo") of Jim Keith's
1994 book [ISBN 0-9626534-9-7] -- Casebook on Alternatvie 3: UFOs,
Secret Societies and World Control -- published by Iluminet Press
(P.O. Box 2808. Lilburn, GA 30226):

[....]

Lear admits to having recently spent time with Gordon Novel, a
man implicated in the Kennedy assassination by New Orleans
District Attorney Jim Garrison and others, and alleged by his
wife to have been one of the Oswald impersonators prior to the
Kennedy killing.  Novel himself has admitted that he was hired
by Lyndon Johnson to sabotage the Garrison investigation.

Of his encounter, Lear said that Novel and another man, an
"electronics exert" working for Federal Technologies
Corporation, had come up with "an advanced device" for the Joint
Chiefs of Staff. "During their research," Lear stated, "they had
come across information the UFOs may exist, and both of them
wanted to come down here and get a briefing."  During the visit
Novel spoke at length with lear about UFOs and the
government/alien collaboration which Lear touts.

Lear suggests:  "Maybe he was here to disinform me.  Maybe he
was sent to find out how much I knew.  Maybe he was sent to
divert my attention from Dulce [the town near the underground
New Mexico alien base Lear maintains exists, and which area is
in fact a reported center for cattle mutilations in the
Southwest]."  Martin Cannon, writing in "UFO Universe" magazine,
proposes a more likely possibility: that Novel was sent to draw
attention to Lear.

[....]

------





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   Mar > Mar 26

                         Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

From: Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research <iufor@frii.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:41:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:47:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples


>From: Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc <mbalien@tin.it>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Michael Wolf's Samples
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:47:52 +0100

>Michael Wolf is right
>by
>Adriano Forgione (Italy)

>On 23 March, we received news of Sims's lab results carried out
>on Michael Wolf's sample sent to Bill Hamilton. The report
>states that the sample is only made out of pure silicon and and
>no ET element.

>Last August, Paola Harris and myself visited doctor Wolf in his
>flat in Connecticut and spent two days with him, having the
>chance to verify his degrees and credentials.

>Wolf gave us then three samples.

>Paola Harris sent one of them to William Hamilton and we brought
>the other two in Italy for analysis.

>On giving us the samples, Wolf told us that they were mostly
>made out of silicon and a 0.01% of extraterrestrial isotopes. We
>have not mentioned this to anyone and no one in Italy is
>informed of the material in our hands.

>Maurizio Baiata and myself wish that the analysis be conducted
>most secretely and that even the laboratories would not know the
>origin of the samples, neither what Wolf had told us.

>Curiously enough, the results of the two different laboratories
>reached us on the same day of Bill Hamilton's report. They are
>opposed to Sims' results and match entirely with Wolf's
>statements.

<snip>

>Adriano Forgione
>Independent Researcher
>Head Journalis of "Notiziario UFO" and "Dossier Alieni"

>P.S. Please feel free to write me to: mbalien@tin.it


Please have your translation done by a person who is familiar
with the specialized language of chemistry. There are many
statements made here which, to a scientist, appear to be
impossible or self-contradictory; so many, in fact, that it
would be useless to comment on each one before the analysis
reports are available.

We await with interest the publication of an accurate technical
translation of the results.

Best regards,
Bob
--
    INSTITUTE FOR UFO RESEARCH
----------------------------------
Bob Thrift, Fort Collins, Colorado
    http://www.frii.com/~iufor/
      email: iufor@frii.com





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   Mar > Mar 26

                  Incomplete Article By Dr. Robert M. Wood

From: Jan-Hendrik Raabe <y0001095@rzsrv2.rz.tu-bs.de>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:09:32 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:29:35 -0500
Subject: Incomplete Article By Dr. Robert M. Wood


Hello List,

The following paper I found in a library, except for the missing
last page (including the references). Does somebody have the
rest of this?

Thanx and regards

J.

[Most typos fixed by ebk]

---------------

Remark: This author is the retired research director of
McDonnel-Douglas. He wrote the foreword of Paul Hill's
'Unconventional Flying Objects'.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Taken from

Volume 17
AIAA Los Angeles Section Monographs

A Joint Symposium
sponsored by
The Los Angeles and Orange County Sections of the
American Institute of Astronautics and Aeronautics
and
The Los Angeles Chapter of the World Futures Society

Saturday, September 27, 1975,
Los Angeles California

p.10-18 [pages 17/18 missing]
----------------------------------------------------------------


          Testing the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis


by Dr. Robert M. Wood
Associate Fellow, AIAA; AIAA Distinguished Lecturer 1975-76



Abstract

This paper will focus on the assessment of the extraterrestrial
hypothesis (ETH) as the principal basis of the majority of
unexplained Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) reports. A review
(1) of a recent book (9) implies that such an hypothesis would
"trivialize science, dethroning repeatability and
experimentation from their position as ultimate arbiters in
research." This paper will argue exactly contrary to that view,
finally concluding that the ETH is consistent with a deeper
layer of understanding of science than other science models now
happen to possess, but that repeatability, experimentation, and
logic are indeed the ultimate arbiters in research.

The salient features of the observed data reports will be
addressed from a technical viewpoint, attempting to quantify
values of observed acceleration and magnetic field strength.
Non-numerical phenomenological reports such as light bending,
direct gravity reports, size changes, colors, and odors will be
alluded to where relevant. The relationship of these reports to
the present structure of science will be discussed.

The rationale by which these data favor the ETH will be
described. The ETH will be contrasted briefly with some other
competing nontrivial hypotheses, and a reasonable scenario
outlined with respect to the distribution of extraterrestrial
visitors in range, visitation frequency, and travel speed. The
consistency between the reported reports and expected reports
will be discussed, with the conclusion that the vast majority of
UFO reports are totally consistent with a high frequency of
visits by large numbers of extraterrestrial civilisations on
generally uncoordinated missions from distances consistent with
the travel speeds up to 10^6 times the speed of light. It will
be emphasized that this conclusion is in no way inconsistent
with the conventional data base of physical science.


  1. Introduction

  The introduction to the book 'Intelligent Life in the
Universe' (3) begins with a Walt Kelly cartoon wherein the
Porcupine is talking to Pogo, saying "I been readin' 'bout how
maybe they is planets peopled by folks with ad-vanced brains
..on the other hand, maybe we got the most-brains ... maybe our
intellects is the universe's most ad-vanced .........Either way,
it's a mighty soberin' thought"

  Most scientists seem to agree with the assessment of Sagan and
Shklovskii in Reference 3 that in the Milky Way alone, there are
large numbers of extraterrestrial civilizations probably extant
today. An approximate repeat of their calculations is presented
in Figure 1 which is fairly self-explanatory. These calculations
lead to the conclusion that there are between 1 million and 200
million intelligent civilizations in the Milky Way alone, with
the closest one likely to be more than ten and less than a few
hundred light years away. While none of these types of
calculations can be considered rigorous, it does seem
inescapable that there are surely either 'many' or 'many
thousands' of extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way.

-----------------------------------------------------
 Figure 1: Number of Civilizations in the Milky Way
  Factor                                      Estimates
 A = Star Formation Rate                       10/year
 B = Fraction with Planets                     1
 C = Livable Planet/Star                       1 to 2
 D = Developed Life/Livable Planet             1
 E = Intelligent Life/Developed Life           0.1 t0 1
 F = Advanced Civilisation/intelligent Life    0.1 to 1
 G = Advanced Civilisation Lifetime           10^7 years
-----------------------------------------------------

  The significant question and the reason for this paper is to
assess the probability that this life is visiting us in the form
of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFO's). With few exceptions, the
studies relevant to extraterrestrial intelligence and UFO's have
little to do with each other. Professor Sturrock has recently
had published (4) the results of an attempt to promote a deeper
interaction between these two groups. The usual expectation it
that extraterrestrial life is not likely to have much in common
with our life, as symbolized by the cartoon showing a bug-like
creature crawling on the desert with his crashed saucer in the
background, and the creature shouting: "Ammonia! Ammonia!" It
will be seen that such a priori attitudes may have little
correlation with the reported data, with which it is generally
assumed the reader of this paper is familiar. Anyone not
familiar with the literature on UFO's should attempt to acquire
and read References 5 through 14, which are in this author's
opinion the present 'ten best' references on UFO's.

  Everyone admits that UFO's are reported. The subject of this
symposium is relevant to the cause of the reports, i.e., various
alternative hypotheses which would explain them. Hypotheses
which have been advanced include (1) misperceptions (of natural
or man-made activities), (2) hoaxes (often aimed as showing how
easy it is to fool people), (3) hallucinations or psychic
phenomena (which do not necessarily belong bunched together),
(4) poorly understood physical phenomena (such as ball
lightning), (5) vehicles from other nations (including our  own
supersecret vehicles), and (6) vehicles from other
civilizations. It is contended that hypotheses 1 though 5 above
are not consistent with the reported data, and so only the last
hypothesis is of relevant interest with some possibility of
psychic phenomena being involved.

  Therefore, we find a need to examine the different
possibilities relevant to other civilizations, and this
examination is provided by Figure 2 [Not included in this
presentation]. This illustration relates space and time via the
past the present, and the future, and inside, on the surface,
and outside the earth. Of the nine possible combinations which
represent sources of the UFO's of other civilizations, it is
suggested that the least unlikely (i.e., the most likely) is
extraterrestrial civilizations of the present. The rationale for
this conclusion is as follows. Anything from inside the earth is
not consistent with our present knowledge of the well-mapped
earth apertures. Also, it seems unlikely that an air-breathing
civilization indigenous to the earth would have evolved
underneath the ocean. If the UFO's come from the Future by Time
Travel, anything goes with respect to spatial location, but this
seems to rather avoid the question. Similarly, Time Travel from
the Past seems even less likely than from the Future. For the
UFO's to come from a civilization which is indigenous to the
present surface of the earth is not consistent with the rather
uniform worldwide reports. Therefore, by a process of
elimination, it is evident that the most likely hypothesis is
extraterrestrial from the present. This is the simplest, most
discussed hypothesis which, it is contended, has the greatest
consistency with the reported data base. We will now examine the
question of this consistency.


  2. UFO observations - A technical view

  2.1 General summary

  As noted earlier, it is not the intent of this paper to
provide an educational treatment of the data base. However,
because of the bewildering complexity of the reports and their
astonishing nature to uninformed scientists (15), it does seem
appropriate to provide a summary of the more relevant facts as
shown in Figure 3. Reference 6 by McCampbell represents one of
the most usefully organized presentations of data because the
data art categorized by observables (e.g., shapes, colons,
sounds, motions, etc.) The five items which are checked are
those which will be discussed or illustrated later. There are at
least four highly interesting radar/visual cases which are well
documented. Two examples of direct gravity effects are (1)
Wanaque, New Jersey (16), which was the site of a report
involving the rising of water by a foot or so directly under the
UFO and (2) the Coyne Helicopter case (17) which was a situation
wherein a helicopter and its crew were apparently moved from
about 1,500 to 3,500 feet of altitude in a time of a few seconds
without any feeling of acceleration by the crew.

----------------------------------------------------------------

 Figure 3: Main UFO Observations

  * Varied shapes (discs, cigars)
  * Plasma glows, many colors
  * Varied motions (falling leaf, hover, steady, accelerations)
  * Large range of acceleration
  * Some silent, most hum
  * Apertures reported/photographed
  * Several significant radar/visual cases
  * Many good photos
  * Occasional direct gravity effects
  * Large magnetic fields
  * E-M interference
  * Odors frequently reported
  * Infrequent nuclear detection reports
  * Animal reactions consistent
  * Humanoids types classifiable
  * Paralysis weapons reported; lethal weapons rare
  * Occasional dimensions and shape changes
  * Landing marks rampant, with traces
  * Invisibility frequently reported
  * Repair incidents reported
  * Some kidnappings more credible than others
  * A few instances of bending or stopping of light beams

 Summary: "Credible people seeing incredible things" ...
          Which become routine in the context of the ETH

----------------------------------------------------------------

  Electromagnetic interference frequently takes the form of TV
or radio, although automobile stoppage (presumably because of
lack of spark) is almost a standard report. Similarly, diesel
engines are reported to continue running in the presence of a
close approach by a UFO. Although the odors of H2S and other
foul smells are reported, it is not possible to propose a
consistent hypothesis relevant to olfactory data. Occasionally,
reports of nuclear radiation emerge; reactions of dogs and cats
normally precede human reactions. Many of the humanoid types
reported are Homo sapiens, although the next most frequent type
is about one meter tall with a large head, often requiring
breathing apparatus. When dialogue occurs between
extraterrestrial beings (ET's) and men, the language is
typically the native one for the man with the ET having an
accent. Whereas lethal attacks, especially unprovoked, are rare,
the use of directed energy paralysis weapons is not uncommon.
Occasionally, shape and size changes are reported - these are
uncommon but nonzero.

  Landings are frequently reported (18) and a recent analysis
has been completed of landing traces (19). On occasion,
invisibility has been reported, ranging from instantaneous
disappearance to a gradual fadeout. There have been several
incidents of repair, including one with a friendly conversation
(20) and one with a two-vehicle, many-man crew complete with
implied emotional reaction (21). Finally, there are dozens of
cases where the witnesses report that they have had
conversations with apparent ET's aboard their spacecraft,
sometimes willing and sometimes unwilling, with a variety of
alleged ET's some of them almost assuredly hoaxes and some of
them almost assuredly not. As stated on Figure 3, the main UFO
observations represent "credible people seeing incredible
things" .... which become routine in the context of the
extraterrestrial hypothesis.


  2.2 SPECIFIC EXAMPLES

  Several examples are now offered to illustrate technical
consistency between different UFO reports and analyses thereof.
Figure 4 shows a 1950 photograph taken by Paul Trent of
McMinnville, Oregon, in the presence of a witness. Figure 5 is
a photograph of a UFO taken in 1954 near Rouen, France, by a
French Air Force pilot. Note that the higher resolution
photograph is the _later_ one. After a sighting by Heflin (1965)
he wrote that he saw a rotating wedge-shaped beam of light and
drew a sketch thereof. After processing of the USMC negatives
with high contrast paper, the result shows a wedge-shaped region
of light. The rotating light was also reported in a sighting in
Corsica (22), although on the top instead of the bottom. Both
are shown in Figures 6 (Photograph by Rex Heflin, 1965) and 7
(Corsica, 1971), respectively. A more remarkable of technical
consistency is provided by the incident at San Jose de Valderas,
a suburb of Madrid, Spain (23). A few dozen people were having
a picnic lunch outside of an apartment house when the UFO came
over. One man, who had been photographing his girl friend,
merely raised his camera to capture the picture shown in Figure
8. Meanwhile, another young man photographed the picture shown
in Figure 8. Later, a third person turned in the
polyvinyl fluoride plastic in a pure Ni tube where the UFO
allegedly stopped a few kilometers away as shown with the stamp
marking in Figure 10.

  A very recent sequence of photographs comes from Denmark
courtesy of Adrian Vance who is a specialist in the analysis of
UFO photography. Figures 11 and 12 show significant consistency
with respect to the angle of shadows made by the sun,
considering the reference of the UFO with respect to the cloud
background which is visible in the un-cropped photos not shown.
A final comparison is one involving smoke rings. Figure 13 shows
the Heflin smoke ring present after the UFO accelerated away,
Figure 14 is that of a smoke ring in England photographed not
following a UFO report, and Figure 15 is one of a sequence taken
at Fort Belvoir, Virginia, of a smoke ring which later turned
into a cloud. The photograph was that of the Vortex ring
accompanying an atomic bomb simulation demonstration (8).

  Based on reports of witnesses it is possible to make some
calculations relevant to the numerical values implied by the
verbal reports. For example, Figure 16 developed on the
testimony of a technical person in management for the
Government (24), is based on a situation where there were two
UFO's revolving about each other underneath a cloud cover
determined to be less than 5,000 feet. The period of 1 second
together with a 200-foot radius are shown to give about 200 g's.
Another general way of measuring acceleration is shown in
Figure 17, where both a land and a sea situation are shown, each
involving presumed constant acceleration at constant altitude to
disappearance over the horizon. It is remarkable that all sea
disappearances of 10 seconds or less involve accelerations of 10
g's or more as shown in Figure 18. Finally, a scenario arises at
night when the witness states that a bright object at a given
estimated distance accelerated directly away from him and
vanished against the background of stars in a given time. Figure
19 shows the applicable expressions for this geometry, and
Figure 20 shows that a change in magnitude of 10, starting from
1000 feet away, would result in 200 g's constant acceleration.

  A sighting by Webb (25) [*] involving the use of Polaroid
glasses may give insight to the magnetic field strength. Figure
21 schematically indicates what Webb reported during a clear
day, and Figure 22 ascribes the presence of interference rings
with his Polaroid glasses to the Faraday effect, which involves
the rotation of the plane or polarization of polarized light in
the strong axial or perpendicular magnetic field. Although
Maxwell's equations indicate that the parallel case should
give a null result if the light plane rotation is caused by a
perpendicular magnetic field, Figure 22 indicates a magnetic
field strength of the order of 10^8 gauss divided by the length
of the vehicle in meters (100 m), or about 10^6 gauss. This
value of a million or so gauss also emerges from witness
statements about the distance at which a UFO causes compasses to
spin (estimated at about O.5 gauss).

  [* Description of Figure 21: Welles Alan Webb, 1953]


  3. Interferences from the Data to the Scenario

  The preceding section of this paper was intended to note the
consistency between different UFO reports or internal to the
same report, thereby suggesting a significant and nontrivial
credibility, which would, for instance, be enough to convince a
jury on a witness stand. Although there are cases corresponding
to a high degree of consistency, there are also many many cases
for which the vehicle, the shape, the behavior, the occupants,
and the apparent mission are all different, representing a high
diversity of visitors, as shown in Figure 23. This implies many
civilizations rather than a few. The frequency of visitation has
not been extensively discussed in this paper, but can be
estimated to range from ten per day to one per ten days
worldwide. For example, a study for the Air Force by Batelle
(26) indicated 434 unknowns over a 4-year period for the U.S.
alone with not all sightings reported. Such a high frequency of
reports, together with such a high diversity most assuredly
suggests large numbers of different civilizations involved, and,
therefore, further implies a large range because of the large
expected distances noted in Section 1. Unless exceptionally long
travel times are used, which seems to he inconsistent with the
fairly routine apparent missions, then travel much taster than
the speed of light (c) is thereby inferred. Furthermore, if v >>
c is indeed feasible, then the extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH)
becomes quite simple and straightforward. _It is principally the
common assumption that one cannot travel faster than c that
makes the ETH awkward._ On the other hand, faster-than light
travel (hyperoptic), yields a scenario immediately compatible
with the vast majority of the UFO reports, with each UFO
participating in a sensible mission, such as those that we would
sponsor had we the easy cheap capability to explore other
stellar systems. These would (and  do) surely include searching
for habitable planets and examining their physical features
(earth samplings are reported) and assessing the physiological
aspects of the inhabitants (12). Societal contact would not
necessarily have evident merit, and if hostility were shown by
us occasionally, covert operations would be more discreet in
order to avoid jeopardizing mission success.

--------------------------------------------------------------
 Figure 23: Inferences

  * High diversity -> Many civilisations
  * High frequency -> Large range
  * Large range -> Travel velocity >> Speed of light
  * If v >> C is feasible -> ETH is very simple
  * ETH -> missions
--------------------------------------------------------------

  Figure 24 presents two concepts. The first concept is
represented by the line sloping up to the right, which merely
indicate how  far one gets in light years at the constant
accelerations (and attendant deceleration after halfway) shown,
as a function of the travel time in years. Values of 100 to 1
million g's are in the range of the reported data. No
relativistic correction is required because, as will be
discussed in Section 4, the "rules" of special relativity have
not been shown to be applicable experimentally in the presence
of massive gravitational-interaction fields accompanying such
enormous acceleration of objects as if they were without
inertia. For handy reference it should be noted that the correct
expression is s = (a*t*t)/4, where s is the distance in light
years, a is the acceleration in earth g's, and t is the travel
time in years. Therefore, travel for one year at 10^6 g's
results in a range of about 250.000 light years, or well on the
way to the galaxy in Andromeda. Similarly, 10^4 g's for one
month gets you to about Zeta Reticuli [*].

  [* Footnote: An innuendo to References 12 and 30 is conceded.
This star has been conjectured to be the base of the crew for
the incident of Reference 12.]

  The second concept in Figure 24 is associated with the line
sloping down to the right, and has a slope of -1/3. It
represents the expected visitation period on the abscissa
assuming that all space is uniformly populated with
civilizations, and that a visitation rate of one per year is
associated with civilizations out to a range of 10.000 light
years. Doubling the range cubes the volume and, therefore, cuts
the expected time between visits to 1/8 of a year. Similarly,
halving the range would change the time between visits to eight
years. This concept assumes that the visitee is not hard to find
by the visitor, and thereby implies some communication amongst
the ET's of "whom is good to visit" for the purposes of the
mission.

  The most important conclusion is obvious. _If it is possible
to travel faster than the speed of light, the first signs of
extraterrestrial life will appear here in vehicles long before
any electromagnetic signals arrive._ In fact, probably none
would be sent .


  4. Relationship to Science

  The scientific method produces concepts and laws which have
value in their ability to reliably predict future results. To
accomplish this objective, measurements are made, laws are
hypothesized, and other measurements are tested against these
laws. If the laws for prediction work often enough to be useful,
these hypotheses are accepted into science.

  For those who have studied the UFO matters and their attendant
data base as evidenced by their familiarity with the literature,
there is clearly a problem. Furthermore, measurements have been
made and reported by various sensors in spite of the typical
transient nature of the phenomenon. The transient nature in no
way needs to imply unreality, as illustrated by measurements of
ball lightning, wild animals, weather, earthquakes and meteors.

  We should now be ready for some hypotheses, and this author
has selected the ETH as both an old and a good one. A review (1)
of a recent book (2) implies that such an hypothesis would
"trivialize science, dethroning repeatability and
experimentation from their position as ultimate arbiters in
research." This view can be contested by using Figure 25. The
upper left block represents all of the data of conventional
science; for example, such as those supporting the existence of
a monopole (27), as a most recent example of data collection in
the field of physics. These data mutually support the present
useful theory along the lines of the first paragraph of this
section. On the upper right of the figure is represented what we
could call "unconventional experimental data." Such data for
past science would have included reports of ball lightning and
meteors.

  Although it would be possible to conjecture a long list of
unconventional data (28), the UFO phenomena are rich enough to
represent a long list by themselves, as has been summarized in
Figure 3. An immediate question arises, of course, about the
reliability of the data, and, therefore, the level at which they
should be "thresholded." For most unconventional data which
now have been embraced in normal science (including the examples
of ball lightning and meteors), it is evident that the data were
thresholded too high by the scientific community in examining
the question. For example, it would seem that the





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   Mar > Mar 26

                   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:49:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:45:33 -0500
Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France


>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:00:13 PST

>>From: Joe Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:12:42 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

>>Dear List:

>G'day Joe & List,

>>One thing bothered me about the original 1917 Western Front
>>"quotation".  The text mentions the presence of "Mr. Churchill",
>>obviously Winston S. Churchill at the scene.  Yet in September
>>1917, Churchill had left the War Cabinet, become a Colonel in
>>the British Army and taken command of a regiment in Belgium,
>>which he led through the battle of Passchendaele in November
>>1917.

>>Well, thanks to our sharp-eyed friend Gary Alevy, that's one
>>conundrum we don't have to worry about any more.  Lou F.
>>Lirpa...April F Uol backwards.  Good job, Gary!

>>Whoever concocted this hoax has a good working knowledge of the
>>UFO scene back in 1917 and some familiarity with the U.S. Army's
>>World War One 'Table Of Organization'.

>The only person I know of close to being _that_ old is James
>Bond Johnson . . .   ];-)



Dear Joe, Leanne and list:

Is there any chance of tracing back the original message?
Maybe we can get a clue who " Lirpa " really is.

I'm sure that would be informative and entertaining as well!

Best wishes

-  Larry Hatch

[Stig's original message included:

 From: louflirpa@ufowatch.org (Lou F. Lirpa)
 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
 Subject: DOUGHBOY TRACKED UFOS IN FRANCE
 Date: 22 Mar 1999 20:02:09 GMT
 Organization: World Wide UFO Truth Finders
 Lines: 62

 A 'nameserver lookup' & 'finger' yield:

 Non-Authoritative Answer: Host not found, or possible Name
 Server Failure. Try again.

 A 'whois' yields:






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                         Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:11:33 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:51:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples


>From: Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc <mbalien@tin.it>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Michael Wolf's Samples
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:47:52 +0100

>Michael Wolf is right by Adriano Forgione (Italy)

>On 23 March, we received news of Sims's lab results carried out
>on Michael Wolf's sample sent to Bill Hamilton. The report
>states that the sample is only made out of pure silicon and and
>no ET element.

>Wolf gave us then three samples.

>Paola Harris sent one of them to William Hamilton and we brought
>the other two in Italy for analysis.

I guess those little samples are making a world wide tour.

>On giving us the samples, Wolf told us that they were mostly
>made out of silicon and a 0.01% of extraterrestrial isotopes.
>Not only the sample contains an unknown isotope
>percentage but the high temperature undergone is coeherent with
>the possibility that it may come from a UFO crash.

Adriano,

Perhaps I am missing the point. You are holding a piece (still
not sure how Mr. Wolf got them), that is made up of "almost"
pure silicon and 0.01 of something else, yet to be identified.
So what's the issue  here? I haven't gained any insight why this
sample is different than something that could have been produced
anywhere in the world.

Secondly, I don't see the connection to why it "could" have come
from a crashed UFO. What's the link here.

If Mr. Wolf had some samples of evidence that could possibly be
related to extraterrestrial craft/beings wouldn't it be the
logic to hand carry these items to someone "BIG". Like Sandia
Labs, Lawrence Livermore, I don't know, Boston University, Yale
which is less than 30 minutes from Hartford. Why would he send
it all the way to Italy and another one to Bill Hamilton. Does
Bill own an analysis lab?  I am failing to piece this story
together.


Please clarify.

Thanks

Kathleen Andersen
Seattle
MUFON State Section Director







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                         Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:11:33 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:51:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples


>From: Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc <mbalien@tin.it>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Michael Wolf's Samples
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:47:52 +0100

>Michael Wolf is right by Adriano Forgione (Italy)

>On 23 March, we received news of Sims's lab results carried out
>on Michael Wolf's sample sent to Bill Hamilton. The report
>states that the sample is only made out of pure silicon and and
>no ET element.

>Wolf gave us then three samples.

>Paola Harris sent one of them to William Hamilton and we brought
>the other two in Italy for analysis.

I guess those little samples are making a world wide tour.

>On giving us the samples, Wolf told us that they were mostly
>made out of silicon and a 0.01% of extraterrestrial isotopes.
>Not only the sample contains an unknown isotope
>percentage but the high temperature undergone is coeherent with
>the possibility that it may come from a UFO crash.

Adriano,

Perhaps I am missing the point. You are holding a piece (still
not sure how Mr. Wolf got them), that is made up of "almost"
pure silicon and 0.01 of something else, yet to be identified.
So what's the issue  here? I haven't gained any insight why this
sample is different than something that could have been produced
anywhere in the world.

Secondly, I don't see the connection to why it "could" have come
from a crashed UFO. What's the link here.

If Mr. Wolf had some samples of evidence that could possibly be
related to extraterrestrial craft/beings wouldn't it be the
logic to hand carry these items to someone "BIG". Like Sandia
Labs, Lawrence Livermore, I don't know, Boston University, Yale
which is less than 30 minutes from Hartford. Why would he send
it all the way to Italy and another one to Bill Hamilton. Does
Bill own an analysis lab?  I am failing to piece this story
together.


Please clarify.

Thanks

Kathleen Andersen
Seattle
MUFON State Section Director







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   Mar > Mar 26

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:24:07 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:52:19 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:56:01 -0500

>Call it intuition if you like, but I can't help thinking there
>may be some connection to CJD (Mad Cow Disease) here.
>I'm assuming, of course, that it isn't a hoax when I say this.
>Maybe the elk in question was removed from the herd to be tested
>or worse yet, infected.

Rick, I have not heard of any cases of CJD in Washington state.
Not to say it doesn't exist or can't exist.  There's always that
"first" one! I remember that the Montana ranchers were worried a
couple of years back but have heard nothing since.

Personally it  wouldn't bother me a bit if hunters got a little
worried about eating elk. From what I know, the one that was
found did not have any wounds. And yes, the information that has
already been researched does not point to a hoax.

Kathleen  Andersen
Seattle





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                         Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

From: Adriano Forgione - Notiziario UFO <notiziario.ufo@flashnet.it>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:26:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:04:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples


Dear Researchers.

There was an inaccuracy in my communication on the Wolf's
samples sent yesterday via e-mail.

The real percentage of silicon is 99.99%. Therefore, there
aren't any impurities in the sample. The 0.01% is undefiniable.
Mr. Zuccarini was able to determine it but nobody within his
team could understand what that would be.

Therefore, the term "unknown" is pertinent.


Adriano Forgione (Italy)
Independent Researcher
Editor in chief of "Notiziario UFO" and "Dossier Alieni"





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                Re: Incomplete Article By Dr. Robert M. Wood

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:51:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:08:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Incomplete Article By Dr. Robert M. Wood


>From: Jan-Hendrik Raabe <y0001095@rzsrv2.rz.tu-bs.de>
>Subject: Incomplete Article By Dr. Robert M. Wood
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:09:32 +0100 (MET)


<snip>

>---------------

>Remark: This author is the retired research director of
>McDonnel-Douglas. He wrote the foreword of Paul Hill's
>'Unconventional Flying Objects'.
>---------------------------------------------------------------

<snip>


All I can say about this article is: wow.

Concerning Dr. Robert M. Wood, the following can be found at:

http://www.ufonetwork.com/newsandinfo/gems/messages/17.html

----------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 22:52:58 -0800
To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com
From: "A.J. Craddock" craddock@west.net
Subject: Exotic Material


For those that are interested, the leaking of the latest
(alleged) MJ-12 Documents (93 pages in all) provides a treasure
trove of technological details as to the metallurgical makeup and
power plants of downed Extraterrestrial craft. Plus multiple
events over and above Roswell are confirmed, including the 1941
Cape Girardeau, MO disaster
(http://www.cseti.org/crashes/007.htm)

The Chief Authenticator has an interesting background.

Dr. Robert M. Wood was educated as an engineer and scientist,
earning degrees in Aeronautical Engineering from University of
Colorado and a Ph.D. in physics from Cornell University. His
professional career encompassed the crescendo of aerospace
achievement, beginning with analyzing data from V-2 firings in
New Mexico to his most recent work on technology for the United
States Space Station. His 43-year career was with Douglas
Aircraft and McDonnell Douglas, which involved defensive missile
design, radar technology, and electronics. Dr. Wood managed the
independent research and development projects of the company for
about ten years. In management, he often contributed to winning
proposals and professional briefings.

In the late 60s, McDonnell Douglas asked Dr. Wood to determine
how it might develop gravity control propulsion devices like
those apparently used by UFOs. This resulted in a significant
evaluation of the UFO witness reports and a thorough
understanding of the technical and experience literature. During
the era of the Air Force's Condon Committee investigation of
UFOs, Dr. Wood conferred with the Condon Committee and briefed
them on advanced propulsion concepts that might apply to
extraterrestrial craft.

Involved in classified work and company proposals during much of
his career, since his retirement in 1993, Dr. Wood has pursued
the UFO problem with enthusiasm, inspiring the confidence of
sources to let him see their original documents that may provide
insight into the workings of the UFO propulsion mechanism. As a
scientist, he uses established techniques for the authentication
of questioned documents.

Dr. Bob Wood is the author of professional journal articles
dealing with UFOs including "Giant Discoveries of Future
Science," "Testing the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis," "The
Extraterrestrial Hypothesis Is Not That Bad," "How to Study Weird
Things Gracefully," and "A Little Physics...A Little Friction: A
Close Encounter with the Condon Committee." Recently, he wrote
the foreword to the book Unconventional Flying Objects by NASA
scientist Paul Hill (Hampton Roads, 1995), and book reviews of
TOP SECRET/MAJIC by Stan Friedman and The Day After Roswell by
Phil Corso.

As Dr. Wood says:

"We have merely provided the stunningly detailed documentation
that seems to place the stamp of reality upon the recovery of
crashed extraterrestrial vehicles by the United States from
1947-1954. This validates what most people already accept: there
is extraterrestrial life and we are not alone."

The presentation by Dr. Robert M. and Ryan S. Wood follows
chronologically a paper evidence trail left by former
Presidents, military and intelligence leaders of decades past.
It tells what they did to keep the alien artifacts from our
enemies, to learn the secrets of alien technology, and to
advance science. While many might say that today's secrecy is
unethical, evil and unconstitutional it can be cogently argued
that the original men were patriots not only for our country,
but for all mankind by reducing the risk of nuclear war.

However, equally powerful arguments build the case that the
leaders are criminals for abrogating the Constitution and for
denying the entire planet of significant advances in standard of
living and quality of life for the least 30 years.

The documents can be downloaded from
http://the-word-is-truth.org/narr_menu.cfm?id=27 and require
Adobe Acroboat to be read.

Oh and BTW, the dots can be connected from the above to the
Skunkworks.

Tony Craddock






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   Mar > Mar 26

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:22:22 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:15:13 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:56:01 -0500

>Call it intuition if you like, but I can't help thinking there
>may be some connection to CJD (Mad Cow Disease) here.

>I'm assuming, of course, that it isn't a hoax when I say this.

>Maybe the elk in question was removed from the herd to be tested
>or worse yet, infected.

>There was mention made of a dead elk found shortly afterward and
>though it wasn't clear if it was the same one, it might be
>worthwhile to test it for CJD, if there is a test for it. The
>fact that this disease can occur in herbivores that do not
>generally eat each other's remains baffles me.

>Would anyone care to comment on this and perhaps tell me a
>little about elk CJD in the proccess?

I believe that Ted Oliphant was the first person to suggest a
connection between animal mutilations and the study of CJD. I
remember talking with Ted about this and reading an article he
had written about the subject well over a year ago. I believe
that the Sightings website has his article in its archives.

Regards,






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   Mar > Mar 26

                    Re: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Ted Oliphant III <alkahest@slip.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:36:28 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:18:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:56:01 -0500

>Call it intuition if you like, but I can't help thinking there
>may be some connection to CJD (Mad Cow Disease) here.

>I'm assuming, of course, that it isn't a hoax when I say this.

>Maybe the elk in question was removed from the herd to be tested
>or worse yet, infected.

>There was mention made of a dead elk found shortly afterward and
>though it wasn't clear if it was the same one, it might be
>worthwhile to test it for CJD, if there is a test for it. The
>fact that this disease can occur in herbivores that do not
>generally eat each other's remains baffles me.

>Would anyone care to comment on this and perhaps tell me a
>little about elk CJD in the proccess?


Hi Richard,

Deer & Elk are not just herbivores. They will eat meat! Ask
Chris O'Brien about his "Twinkie Deer" that he fed venison stew
to!

Chronic Wasting Disease of Mule Deer and Elk is a Transmissable
Spongiform Encephalopathy (TSE), as are BSE and CJD. It leads to
the creations of "holes" in the brain, hence the title
"spongiform".

Ticks, fleas, mosquitos and even some flies may be the
transmission vehicle from which other animals become infected.
So even if an animal really is a vegetarian, it still can become
infected via insects, body fluids etc.

Regards,

Ted Oliphant






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   Mar > Mar 26

                         Re: Latest Update From RPIT

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:47:36 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:21:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Latest Update From RPIT


>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:12:36 -0800
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
>Subject: Re: Latest Update From RPIT

>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:30:55 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net, neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk
>>Subject: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest Update From RPIT

>>BTW, in case anyone is
>>interested, I am positive that I could read most of the bottom
>>half of the Ramey Telegram if I had a high-quality
>>first-generation _film_ blowup of the image made directly from
>>the original negative, NOT a digitized image. I first tried this
>>in 1985 and was immediately able to read the word "BALLOON"
>>among others. I developed a special image analysis technique
>>enabling me to do this, but it doesn't work with digitized
>>images which among other things does not fully register all of
>>the fine image detail in film. However, I do not have the time
>>or resources to try to obtain the first-generation enlargement
>>that would be needed. I contacted the Univ of Texas in 1997 but
>>found what they offered was inadequate and prohibitive in cost.

>???
>They provide a first generation print direct from the "original"
>neg! How closer, other than working with the original neg, can
>you get.
>???


I don't know Brad Sparks, but I have to say that what he is
saying here just does not make any sense to me.

I don't know of any sort of analysis which could not work with a
high resolution digital file, and it seems to me that the only
way we are going to read this telegram (if it is a telegram) is
via advanced digital analysis.

Bob







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                            Re: Filer's Files #12

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:23:43 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:02:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12


Filer's Files #12-1999,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,   MUFON Eastern Director,
March 25, 1999,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020

CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS -- Thirty-three years ago on March 25,
1966, House Minority Leader Gerald Ford proposed to Congress
that they investigate the rash of reported sightings of
unidentified flying objects in Michigan and other parts of the
country.  Ford said, "I believe a congressional inquiry would be
worthwhile because the American people are becoming alarmed by
the UFO stories."  His leadership helped make his name a
household word and later he became Vice President and President.
The UFOs are still flying and we are not much closer to a
solution.

MICHIGAN

MILAN -- Kenny Young reports that there have been reports of
sightings in Milan for three nights in a row.  The nights were
March 14, 15, 16 very late at night around 1:00 or 2:00 AM in
the morning.  Allegedly the Milan police chased the UFOs all
three nights.  The report is being checked with the Milan
Police.  Thanks to Kenny Young  UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/

GEORGIA

MACON -- Salesman Robert Hunnicutt, Age: 40, March 22, 1999,
19:05 PM. Robert and his spouse, and daughter saw a UFO just
outside the city limits. It appeared in the northwestern sky
above a shopping center.  While driving home on Intrastate 75
North, my daughter spoke of a light in the western sky. My wife
said she saw it too.  Since I was driving, it took a couple of
seconds for me to finally find it.  What I saw appeared to be
cylinder in shape pointing up and down like a letter 'I' .  It
was at an altitude of 2000 to 3000 feet, brightly lit with the
setting sun behind and below it.  There did not appear to be any
aircraft, stars, or birds in the area.  There was little or no
movement until it either moved away or faded away.  We watched
it for approximately 5 to 8 minutes, and lost complete sight of
it once we exited the highway.  The object did not change shape
and did not appear to change size until it either faded or moved
away.   Thanks to BUFOD- bufod@abcfield.force9.co.uk

NORTH CAROLINA

FORT BRAGG -- A few years ago, while a member of the 82nd
Airborne Division, I was on a routine paratroop drop with 55
other troops.  After the jump, we assembled and saw a strange
object in the sky.  It was cylindrical in shape with steady
lights running the length, that may have been windows?  The UFO
had no visible wing structures or means of propulsion.  We could
hear a low hum.  The next morning several individuals from the
four towns surrounding Ft. Bragg called the local radio station
to report seeing the same craft.  Pope Air Force Base was called
but denied any craft resembling a cylinder was being flown from
there.  This was obvious to us.  We were trained in aircraft
recognition and had never seen anything that came even close to
looking like a huge paper towel tube.  It did look similar to
the craft in the Star Trek movie that had the whales in it.  I
wonder if there is any other record of individuals reporting
this or any similar sighting.  Editors Note: The Flying Cigars
are being reported and photographed from New York to Georgia
several times a month.

CAMDEN: Skywatch Sighting Report March 23, 1999, at 7:30 PM.  A
bright object traveling left to right, at a descending angle,
appeared to be glowing from heat as an object entering our
atmosphere at high speed.  The object had a vapor trail or fire
trail, much like a shooting star.  The object moved much slower
than a shooting star.  Although it seemed to be burning from
friction with atmosphere, it never got smaller or burned out.
The color was blue white.  The speed would have been comparable
to that of a jet aircraft that might have been making a low
pass.  We thought it hit the ground 8 miles from our position
near Elizabeth City, NC.  Thanks to Skywatch International and
aremington@earthlink.net

MISSISSIPPI

BATESVILLE -- Unidentified flying objects were reported on March
3, 1999, at 8:45 PM.  The witness observed two very bright
objects about as large as an airplane heading north.  The
witness at first thought they were airplanes, but as they got
closer he knew they were not planes.  No sound was heard.  The
unidentified objects stopped and hovered for about 15 seconds
and then just took off really fast.  Total duration of sighting
was one minute and thirty seconds.  Thanks to J. R. Gillis, MS
State Director The Asst. State Director in Northern MS (Wayne
Morgan) is investigating the case.  Thanks to MUFON-SSD in San
Bernadino, CA for reporting the sighting.

WASHINGTON ELK ABDUCTION BY UFO CASE

MOUNT SAINT HELEN'S -- The case was first reported to Peter
Davenport of the National UFO Reporting Center.  Peter and WA
MUFON Director of Investigations have now interviewed three
witnesses.  I contacted Robert A. Fairfax and asked if he had
some more details on the elk abduction by a UFO on February 25,
1999.  Fairfax writes, "We are currently arranging interviews
with more witnesses."  Filer asked,  "I'm particularly
interested in the description of the craft itself?  Fairfax
answered, "So am I; this is one of the areas we will try to
nail.  So many people just have the hardest time describing or
drawing what they have seen.  There were two flashes described
as the craft wobbled.  A fluorescent magenta (top) and a white
(bottom).  These were apparently not lights but seemed to be
areas on the surface.  These were seen intermittently but again
we will need to pin the details down along with many others."
Filer, "What was the direction of flight and the last known
direction of travel."  Fairfax answered, "It was first seen in
the SE traveling toward the NNW.  It departed slowly to the NE,
and then made near vertical ascent into cloud cover."  Filer
asked, "Was there any insignia on the craft?"  Fairfax responded
that none was reported.  Filer asks: "Did they notice any kind
of a plasma, lighting, or electrical effects around the craft?"
Fairfax answered, "Possibly, the two bright color areas.  The
craft seemed in increase in size as it was capturing the elk.
We're trying to clarify that."  Filer asked, Did the craft tilt
as it changed direction? Fairfax stated, "Wobbling was reported
that was more pronounced before direction changes, but we need
to verify with more witnesses."  Filer asked, "Did they notice a
hum or whine sound?"  Fairfax indicated, "There was no sound."
I suggested," The sound would likely occur as the craft
attempted to climb with the elk."  Fairfax felt that distance
may have to be factored in for low sound level.  I suggested
that, "The wobbling infers the craft did not have a particularly
powerful propulsion system and may not be an interplanetary
craft."  Fairfax responds, "Probably, but larger craft have been
reported wobbling in a similar manner.  It may have to do with
shape/size and function -- probably does -- but this is
surmise."  Filer, "Did you notice the height of the trees or the
approximate height and distance from picking up the elk to the
top the trees?"  Fairfax, "Yes, but no precise calculations have
been done.  It had plenty of room to maneuver and climb, see
illustration on NUFORC site of UFO path."  Filer, "Of course its
possible the craft had plenty of power,  but that it was flown
too close to the trees"  Fairfax: "This may have been an
"unmanned" (unaliened?) remote that had less smarts." Filer,
"Did they notice any windows?"  Fairfax, "There were no
windows."  I asked, "Is it possible the craft came from a base
some where in the vicinity and have there been other sightings?"
Fairfax responded, "Anything is possible, however this is a
remote area and so far we have not uncovered further reports of
activity in this vicinity."  Filer stated, "Many witnesses
describe UFOs entering and leaving mountainous terrain in
Northern California. I have read similar reports in the St.
Helen's area."  Fairfax responds, "Yes, we have reports from the
general Mt. St. Helen's area.  Remember, a large mountain and
surroundings covers quite a bit of territory.  (Due to
constraints by the company, we are not to release the exact
coordinates and location of the incident.)  I would suspect an
area north of me -- Granite Falls area -- as a base site.  There
are reports of all kinds -- from Indian legends to present.  No
specific activity that would indicate a base in either case."

Filer asks, "I have also noticed a silvery powder, possibly sand
or glass like near the bodies of some dead animals.  Did you
happen to notice any white or silvery powder when you found the
elk on the ground?"  Fairfax said, "None was seen."  Filer, "Do
you know if the elk had its blood drained or heated to a powdery
form?"  Fairfax responds, "We were not able (because of imposed
constraints which I cannot go into) to cut into and examine the
insides of the elk.  There were no exterior signs of mutilation;
no black light fluorescence found on hair samples.  The only
possible indicator was the fact that the elk had been lying
there in the open for 5 days and there was no predation or
scavenging.  Also, the dog ticks had not left the body nor did
they show movement when touched -- we presumed they were dead
also.  We have been told that when an animal dies, the ticks
leave the 'sinking ship.'  Thanks to Bob Fairfax for this e-mail
interview and Peter Davenport for the original report. Editors
Note: Apparently, the abduction of a thousand pound elk occurred
on a large piece of privately owned land.  The company wants the
exact location, and their name kept confidential.

BELLEVUE, WASHINGTON-- Steve reports, "I saw an unidentifiable
flying object at 3:22 AM, Pacific Time Zone on March 22, 1999.
I do not think this was aliens. However, I do have an idea that
it was a very large meteor.  I am trying to find others who may
have seen it.  It was very bright, a brilliant turquoise blue
color, moving very fast in a south southwest direction.  It had
a pretty long tail, but not one that stuck around in the sky.
The two things that make this so interesting is 1.  It happened
below the clouds, as it was overcast, and left a small hole in
the clouds where it punched through.  2.  I heard an explosion
that was probably the result of a sonic boom. Thanks to
dledger@cableinet.co.uk

NEVADA ENCOUNTER

Evelyn Galson reports she has been in contact with a Nevada
resident who writes:  "One night, when my family was out of
town, I was laying in bed listening to the neighbor's behind us
having one of their frequent fights. Normally someone would be
at our house besides me, but not that night.  My grandma was at
a class reunion in Santa Rosa, and my mother was with my brother
in Reno, about 45 minutes away.  My dad didn't live with us.  It
was about 1:30 in the morning and the neighbors woke me up
because they were so loud.  After they shut up, I was still
awake.  I'm guessing it was around 2:00 AM when it happened.
Something smacked me hard on the neck.  Not a sharp smack like
wood or metal, but more like someone hitting me with rubber,
maybe like one of those things that doctors use to check your
knee reflexes.  I did not care about the pain--it was the fact
that something else was in the house that should not have been
there.  I looked over to the side of my bed that it came from,
and it was so dark that I could not see a thing.  My bright red
alarm clock was supposed to be there.  I also felt as if there
was something crowding me, like within one foot of me.
Terrified, I ducked under my covers and hid.  This was when I
was about 13, so I wasn't just a little kid.  For all I knew, I
was looking right at someone and that was why I couldn't see
very far.  When I woke up in the morning, there was a bruise on
my neck that was perfectly round.  The bruise stayed for at
least a week."   Thanks to Evelyn Gaulson.  Editors Note: People
often report bruises on their bodies after a strange contact
during the night.  Often unseen visitors enter bedrooms and
cause bruises and other scars on the body.

UNITED KINGDOM

WALES -- On Saturday, March 6, 1999, law professor Tim Richards,
46, and a fellow instructor were driving north between Quaker
Yard and Merther Tydfil, when they saw a huge green light
descend towards the ground.  "We saw something large, about a
sixth the size of the moon," Richard's reported."  We saw it
only for a second, but it was definitely not like anything we
have seen before."  It was bright green and disappeared behind a
bank of cloud toward the north-northwest.  As there were no
street lights, it actually lit up the cloud from behind.  It was
not a reflection from car lights.  It was too large to be a
shooting star, and it was definitely not an airplane."  Thanks
Ben Field of BUFOD.

ITALY CIGAR-SHAPED UFO HOVERS OVER A MALL

BOLOGNA -- On Saturday, February 27, 1999, a dark, cigar-shaped
object was seen hovering above a shopping mall, the Euromercado
di Casalecchio di Reno, in Bologna, a large city 200 miles north
of Rome.  "The object revolved around its axis and moved across
the sky with a 'falling leaf' motion.  The object was the shape
of a cigar and rotated on its stem.  It was first seen by a
woman who looked up and realized it was not a conventional
aircraft.  Within five minutes, it was seen by many other
witnesses in the shopping center parking lot.  It had two
lights, one on each end.  One light was an eye- searing
brilliant white, the other was less bright and considerably
smaller. The object traversed three-quarters of the sky in about
10 seconds, at a considerable velocity."  Thanks to Gianfranco
Degli Esposi  di Centro Ufologici Nazionale.

ROME -- On March 8, 1999, Mr. Alfredo Di Prinzio saw a UFO at
10:00 AM, directly above the St. Agnese Church in Navona Square.
The object was silver and oval shaped and had a jerky movement
in the sky.  Many people saw the object because in that hour the
square was busy with tourists.  One person got a photo and we
are trying to find him.  The object suddenly disappeared. Thanks
to Adriano Forgione, Head Journalist Notiziario UFO and UFO
Roundup Vol. 3 #11, 3/14/99, Joe Trainor Editor.

RUSSIA

PERM -- Nikolay V. Subbotin, reported about UFO's sighting above
Perm.  On February 23, 1999, the local TV channel 'Riphey' aired
a UFO's video footage on its evening news.  The UFO flew slowly
above city for a couple hours.  It seemed like two bright fires
located some distance one from other.  On February 24, "I got
call from my friend and he excitedly stated that, He was again
observing the object."  I managed to capture on my camcorder
about ten minutes of this incident.  The video shows lights that
flare and die away and light up again alternatively with an
interval of approximately 30 seconds. The video shows the moving
lights.  Translated especially by Anatoly Kutovoy for Filer's
Files. Director of RUFORS (Russian UFO Research Station)
[http://www.rufors.com]

ABDUCTIONS AND CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME

Investigator Max Burns believes there may be a connection
between "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (M.E.)" generally known as
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and the alien abduction scenario.  For
the first time there may be some evidence of what causes
abductions.  Max states: "It has come to light through my own
research into the subject of UFO's & alien abduction, it would
appear at first glance that there may well be a link with
"Myalgic Encephalomyelitis" the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and the
Alien Abduction scenario."  Over the last two years he has
obtained information from a thirty-two year old female abductee
from the UK.  She has had a long history of medical problems and
has been diagnosed with M.E. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.  Even
more interesting is that she is a member of an abductee group
who meet once a month in London, this group has, 20 members who
attend regular.  These people are a fair cross section of the
populace, who travel from all around the country to the
meetings.  They are also from different ethnic and cultural
backgrounds.  All have different doctors.  Although I am good
friends with the person mentioned above I also know other
members of this group.  About three months ago I was interested
to learn that out of the 20 members of the group, 14 members of
the group have all been medically diagnosed with "Myalgic
Encephalomyelitis" (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome).  I have it
confirmed from B.R.A.M.E, (Blue Ribbon Association Myalgic
Encephalomyelitis).  The B.R.A.M.E group has a World wide
network for this illness with groups in 18 countries and
estimates 500,000 to 1 million sufferers in the UK (1-2% of the
population).  Out of the total figure about 25% of sufferers are
house bound.  I have discovered that The ME/CFS Charities
Alliance considers this to be a vast overestimate of the true
situation.  The data used included studies of patients with
chronic fatigue, rather than just Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
Editor's Note: I encourage that all suspected abductees have
regular physicals and extensive blood work accomplished.  This
will aid in determining the exact nature of the abduction
scenario.  Copies of blood work and physicals should be provided
to and MUFON physicians and investigators for analysis.

NEW FIND IN GENERAL RAMEY MESSAGE

The Roswell Photo Analysis Team continues to study the
photographs taken of the alleged Roswell crash debris and the
message in General Ramey's hand in 1947.  Neil Morris reports
from England, "I think I've turned up just what the 'emblem' on
the top left corner of the message is.  It seems to be a round
'seal' type emblem like the official DOD seal of around the same
time.  The 'seal' has a very distinctive double rim like a
circular train track!  This feature shows up well in this first
image.  There appears to be an eagle with spread wings at 12
o'clock, the triangle or arrowhead at 9 o'clock.  Inside the
double rim at the 3 to 6 o'clock position is the word 'COMBAT.'
I 'm hoping that the military historians among the UFO community
might be able to pin this emblem down.  If they can it points
the way to the identity of the message.  There are a few more
features that need further research.  Just below the 6 o'clock
position on the seal there seem to be a few indistinct letters
and/or numbers that read S1, S2, SI or even 52.  These too could
help point to the origin of the message.  Thanks to Neil Morris.
The image of this and others on the web sites at: Neil Morris
Univ. of Manchester  neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk  Roswell Archive
http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ Dave Willetts Home Page-

EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER

When it comes to the possible existence of off world high tech
UFOs there are two main groups.  First, the doubters who state
if this were true then the US military would have proof of their
encounters with these objects.  Second, those who believe the
subject is a true one state that the US military does have this
information locked away someplace and its highly classified.
Both groups would seem to be right as is proven by the Audio
Documentary THE EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER.

This one hour audio program contains authentic voice recordings
from the Department of the Air Force, Air Technical Intelligence
at Wright Patterson Air Force Base.  The recordings are
declassified audio records on a UFO event that took place at
Edwards Air Force Base in California on the night of October 7,
1965.  It was given the code name: "The Incident."  During this
event 12 high tech luminous UFOs invaded secure air space and
came down low over the runways at Edwards AFB, where tower
operator Chuck Sorrels spotted them and notified the Western Air
Defense Command.  Sorrels is heard on the original tapes and in
a new segment in which he verifies the event as is heard on the
archival recordings.  The producers have processed the original
recordings in computer for greater clarity.  These recordings
were taken from phone patches, base to base communications and
ground to air radio.  What is heard are actual military
personnel, including pilots in planes, spotting the luminous
"UFOBs" and deciding a course of action.  F-106 Interceptors
were sent up after the objects which are heard to clearly evade
the planes at 40,000 foot altitude.

This is an incredible true document that has been featured on
national radio and TV shows, including: SIGHTINGS, The Art Bell
Show, The  Gerald Rivera Show and others, in addition to many
excellent print reviews.  THE EDWARDS AIR FORCE ENCOUNTER, with
Chuck Sorrels present, was used to brief members of Congress
about the UFO reality.  THE EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER is
supplied on high grade chrome tape on audio cassette, in large
attractive vinyl display case, with copies of official Air Force
Documentation. The producers suggest you listen to the tapes on
your hi-fi stereo in a darkened room and play them loud for
maximum effect.  The cost of the tape is $14.95 each plus $2.00
for shipping -- total $16.95 -- the buyer can send either a
personal check or money order to: INDEPENDENT INTERNATIONAL, Box
565, Dept. GF, Old Bridge, New Jersey 08857.  This a great tape
to listen to with your friends.

MUFON JOURNAL For more detailed investigative reports subscribe
by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or E-mail
Mufon@aol.com.  Filer's Files Copyright 1998 by George A. Filer,
all rights reserved.  Readers may post items from the Files on
their Websites provided that they credit the newsletter and its
editor by name and list the date of issue that the item
appeared.  Send your letters to me at Majorstar@aol.com.  If you
wish to keep your name confidential please so state.





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 26

                         Re: Latest Update From RPIT

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:30:58 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:12:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Latest Update From RPIT


>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:12:36 -0800
>Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:54:04 -0500
>Subject: Re: Latest Update From RPIT


>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:30:55 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net, neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk
>>Subject: Latest Update From RPIT


>>I am sorry to have to be the one to present the bad news to you
>>since that means I'm the one who will have to suffer the abuse
>>and tirades from die-hard fanatics who are not interested in
>>cold hard scientific facts. No one else has come to the fore to
>>speak up on the actual photogrammetric facts that regrettably
>>refute your entire analysis of the Ramey Telegram.

>Brad, I commend your math!, _but_ I feel the real world is a
>little more "chaotic" than the clean precise relms of
>mathamatics and throws us a few "gotcha's" every now and then,
>lets just have a look at the message.

<snip>

>I'm afraid my B+W webcam is no 'Speedgraphic' but I think the
>pictures of the result of the 'mock-up' test do show that it
>_is_ possible, given the way the paper is folded and held, for a
>circular "Seal" feature to have been located towards the top
>left corner of the Ramey Message _and_ for it to be visible in
>the Fort Worth photographs.

Since the Ramey message appears to be a Telex, it was either
sent or received by teletype at Fort Worth. The best way to
resolve whatever standard lettering or insignias were at the top
of the page would be to obtain other samples of Telex messages
for the base during this time period.

Anybody know where to check?

To add my 2 cents to this, there is obviously large lettering at
the top right of the page, but unfortunately steeply tilted away
from the camera. My first guess would have been CARSWELL, except
the base wasn't named that until later. In July 1947 it was
still Fort Worth AAF.

Just to the left of Ramey's thumbnail and just below the area of
the proposed seal, appears to be the lettering "SI" or maybe
"SE", "ST", or "SL". It runs approximately parallel to the
length of the thumb. These letters are around 50% larger than
the letters in the rest of the message, and could represent
standardized letters. My guess is that this is where the Send
time was supposed to go. This could again be determined with
other telex samples.

Going along with this theory is what appears to be a number just
to the right of these letters and offset upwards about half a
line. The first number looks like a fairly distinct "5". After
that is hard to tell. The number is about the same size as the
letters in the rest of the message, suggesting this was also
typed in and not standardized lettering.

This time (after 5 pm) would also fit well with other parts of a
chronology I've compiled. Between approximately 4:15 and 5:00
(Fort Worth time), Ramey was busy with phone calls to the
Pentagon press room and also spoke by phone with a reporter from
the San Francisco Examiner. At 4:53 was an AP bulletin datelined
Washington which quoted Ramey as saying he had sent the crash
material on to Wright Field. Supposedly this information came to
the Pentagon press room via Ramey's phone conversations with
them, mentioned in various newspapers. This was the first direct
mention of Ramey's involvement in the wire bulletins.

Meanwhile, over at the Fort Worth Star Telegram, an editor was
following the wire messages on the story. When he first learned
of Ramey's involvement at 4:53, this would be the likely time to
dispatch someone to cover the story. Enter James Bond Johnson.
According to J.B., it took about half an hour to drive across
town and get to the base, meaning he got there at roughly 5:30
pm. (He thinks about an hour earlier, but I disagree -- Ramey
was busy on the phone.) Ramey has either just sent or received
this telex, and for whatever reason entered his office clutching
it in his hand for his historic photo shoot with the weather
balloon.

David Rudiak







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 26

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:19:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:17:17 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:24:07 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>>From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:56:01 -0500

>>Call it intuition if you like, but I can't help thinking there
>>may be some connection to CJD (Mad Cow Disease) here.
>>I'm assuming, of course, that it isn't a hoax when I say this.
>>Maybe the elk in question was removed from the herd to be tested
>>or worse yet, infected.

>Rick, I have not heard of any cases of CJD in Washington state.
>Not to say it doesn't exist or can't exist.  There's always that
>"first" one! I remember that the Montana ranchers were worried a
>couple of years back but have heard nothing since.

>Personally it  wouldn't bother me a bit if hunters got a little
>worried about eating elk. From what I know, the one that was
>found did not have any wounds. And yes, the information that has
>already been researched does not point to a hoax.

>Kathleen  Andersen
>Seattle
>MUFON State Section Director


Director;

Might be a good idea to send the poor critters brain for testing
just in case. Even though the dead elk may not nessecarily be
the one lifted by the object, I can't help but think; Why an
elk? (lunch?)

Same goes with cattle mutilations, no ducks, chickens and ok,
one horse, as far as I know. No such thing as mad chicken
disease.

Please don't think I consider what I'm alluding to here to be
anything other than idle, very idle speculation. My main intent
is to plant a seed in the mind of someone actually involved in
the investigation so that if the opportunity to check for a
CJD-like condition presents itself, it will be pursued or at
least considered.

It may not seem relevant now but this report follows closely on
the heels of a report of a man in Utah ( Utah? hmmmm...)
contracting CJD from wild game. Specifically: elk. I hope they
managed to round up all the blood products made from his
donations.

From what I've read from you and other sources, I know that
MUFON is conducting an investigation presently. I'm hoping that
if time and resources allow, you will humour me on this one and
see what develops.

I'll buy you lunch... :)

Cheers,

Rick Goldsmith





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 26

              David Jacobs on Jeff Rense's 'Sightings' Tonight!

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:41:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:18:55 -0500
Subject: David Jacobs on Jeff Rense's 'Sightings' Tonight!


Hi All,

Quick note:

David Jacobs, UFO abduction researcher and author of 'The
Threat' will be the guest on Jeff Renses Sightings on the radio
program this evening. Check local airtimes and listings for your
area. You can tune in by going to:

www.sightings.com

The program promises to be a good one, check it out.

Enjoy,

John Velez, Webmaster IF-AIC





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 27

                         Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:28:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:44:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples


Hi Derrel.

Thank you for the information regarding the surprising news
release on Dr. Michael Wolf's specimens.  I understand that the
"BHI" specimen you sent to me was one of the three that were
provided by Dr. Wolf for analysis which may have a UFO
connection.

Early this morning I made a stop at the metallurgy lab at
University of Toronto to pick up the "BHI" specimen (and some
other alleged UFO artifacts sent to me by others) along with the
final report on the analysis of this specimen.  The report
included a plot and electron microscope images.

The plot shows a single very large peak for the "BHI" specimen.
The peak is for silicon.  Although there are no other peaks,
there could still be other elements present but in the scale
used in this plot, they would not be evident if their quantities
were less than about 0.5% of the quantity for silicon.  The
Scanning Electron Microscope-Electron Probe Microscopy Analysis
(SEM-EPMA) done on the "BHI" specimen positively identified it
as being pure or nearly pure silicon.  If we had reason to
believe that other unusual elements were present in quantities
less than about 0.01%, then we would have used a very different
approach and/or equipment to identify these trace elements that
were said to be present.

As you know, silicon can be doped with other elements in small
quantities to produce different types of silicon materials that
have uses in the electronics industry.  Silicon crystals of
extremely high purity can be grown under controlled conditions
and doped silicon can be produced by mixing silicon with other
elements, fusing them together in high temperatures ovens and
then allowing everything to cool slowly.  An open bubble at the
surface of the "BHI" specimen and the characteristic fracture
patterns on pieces of this specimen that were broken off suggest
that the "BHI" specimen was once molten under very high
temperatures in air and had cooled rapidly and unevenly.  This
is evident in the SEM images that I will be sending you.

This bubble was first noticed by a mineralogist with the Royal
Ontario Museum in Toronto months earlier who concluded the "BHI"
specimen was not of natural origin.

From the tests we have done, there is no evidence to suggest
that "BHI" is anything more than a crudely produced doped
silicon material similar to many types of silicon semiconductors
readily available.  The "BHI" specimen has the same silicon
composition of high purity to "RR4", another alleged UFO
specimen that was tested for "unEarthly" isotope ratios at the
Geological of Survey of Canada labs in Ottawa earlier this year
but was found to exhibit the expected ratios.

You asked what I thought of Dr. Michael Wolf.  Although I have
read Dr. Wolf's very unusual book, "The Catchers of Heaven" and
have had a chance to test the specimen above which has a very
dubious UFO origin at best, I would prefer to reserve judgement
for now.

Please let me know if you think further testing of the "BHI"
specimen is warrented.

Since a news release about this "BHI" specimen has been issued
and there are many asking questions on UFO UpDates and other
lists regarding this new possible UFO physical evidence, I am
sending a copy of this e-mail to UFO UpDates.

Nick Balaskas






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 27

             MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating MJ-12

From: stig.agermose@get2net.dk
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 02:52:31 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:55:27 -0500
Subject: MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating MJ-12

The source is "alt.alien.research".

BTW. The document is NOT one of the alleged MJ-12 documents,
which have been published by the Woods and Joe Firmage and come
from an anonymous source, as many of you will know.

Stig

***

From: Aaron LeClair <saucer@bellsouth.net>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.research
Subject: This months MUFON journal
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:09:52 GMT

Does any one have any more info (other than hat is given in the
article, of course) on the cover story of this month's journal?
It deals with an alledged alien skeleton found in or around
Aurora Texas. There is a picture of it on the front. Something
like this should be easy to prove alien or not, why it's taking
so long, I don't know.

There is also a article on Majestic 12. It states (in part), The
hunt for a genuine US Gov. doc. that shows the use of MJ-12 is
over. The breakthrough comes from the FOIA effort of Tim Cooper.
This doc. released by the CIA, is from the Paperclip files,
Record Group 330, JIOA files, released Nov.7, 1985. It is a memo
from Hillenkoetter on 12 April 49 to the Joint Chiefs of Staff
(JCS) that, while otherwise unclassified, shows file
distribution to a CIA Top Secret control file and to MJ-12. This
is unambiguous evidence that there was such a project. To our
knowledge this is the first and only FOIA-released doc.
designating MJ-12. A censor has lined through the distribution
block, but did not obliterate it. (end of that paragraph).

Comments, anyone?






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 27

                  *** Jeff Rense Weekly e-News *** 3-26-99

From: Rense e-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:37:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:59:44 -0500
Subject: *** Jeff Rense Weekly e-News *** 3-26-99


         ***  Jeff Rense Weekly e-News  ***

                    The Week Ahead
                   3-27 thru 4-3-99

        Guests, Announcements, Week's Top Stories
              From http://www.sightings.com


Jeff Rense e-News is distributed exclusively by Free
Subscription.


                 *** From Jeff's Desk ***

Another strange and violent news week is coming to a close. The
NATO bombing of Serbia seems to be the latest in a series of
crises that are appearing (some would say being made to appear)
in a nearly contiguous looping sequence which is supplying the
mainstream media well-supplied with 'hot' headline news.  We are
keeping a relatively low profile and posting a few
non-mainstream stories about the situation to provide a somewhat
different perspective on the matter.  On Thursday's show, we
were honored to present top government world geopolitical
analyst, and former War College Director, Terry Arnold who
shared his savvy views on the NATO bombing attacks.

Some of the other stories in Headlines this week are not
particularly encouraging...including the alarming TB epidemics
in England, Ukraine, and Russia (see stories at sightings.com).
Concern is growing in England about a further decay in morality
as more ten year old girls are expressing concern about being
pregnant as a result of often media-induced sexual escapades.  A
most odd 'earthquake' occurred in Long Island that failed to
register on a single seismograph...no one can figure that one
out.  A couple stories about the resurgence in witchcraft,
especially among young people are also worth noting.

Two new well-written and researched pieces on the 'mystery
contrails' appeared during the week which take very serious
exception to the near hysteria that has been the hallmark of
this controversy for a couple of months... these items are must
reading and bring an important alternative view to the
situation.

The alarming claim of a couple Southern California
'concentration camps' having been 'discovered' replete with MP5
and M16-toting guards was termed false after a number of
researchers went to the Pearblossom location (one woman LIVES
there) and found nothing to support the claims which seem to be
hanging on a few strands of rusty barbed wire pointing 'in' on
perimeter cyclone fencing. Our calls to many fencing contractors
revealed they are lately being asked by businesses and various
agencies in many areas to flip their top strands of barbed over
to the 'in' position to help prevent more lawsuits by people who
have been claiming they have been injured along property lines
by outward facing wire.  Do we think there are government plans
for 'camps' to be set up around the country? Yes. And we've been
covering that story diligently for over 6 years now.  But a few
strands of barbed wire pointing inward do not a 'camp' make...

So, read on...consider...and don't rush to judgement. Next
week's guests are outstanding, including David Icke's returning
visit on Monday.  As some of you know, David was banned from
another late night national talk show because
of his controversial views on world control.

As you have noticed there are often last minute changes in the
Guest schedule. An example this past week was when Greg Braden
was delayed by travel problems and Bill Walker visited instead
on Thursday night...and spent two fascinating and frightening
hours discussing pesticide in our food. Don't miss this show in
the Archives if you missed the live program. And please do
yourself a favor and take the BRILLIANTLY-formatted food
pesticide evaluation test at www.foodnews.org.

Have a great and safe weekend...


                   *** TOP STORIES ***

        Just a few of last week's most intriguing!
                 http://www.sightings.com


   * Suspected Chinese Spy Chosen For Key US Nuclear
     Program

   * Incredible - Brain Scans Turn Thoughts Into Words

   * 'Know Your Customer' Killed By Mass E-Mail Flood

   * London Faces TB Epidemic As Drugs Fail

   * UFOs Over Quebec/Ontario - Wild Week In Brazil -
     Big Ohio Sightings

   * Coming Sooner Than You Think

   * Scientists Cast Doubt On Caffeine Addiction

   * Alien Sex

   * Iraq Buries 27 Children Said Killed By US Sanctions -
     1.5 Million To Date

   * Experts Say Clinton Lied Repeatedly During His Press
     Conference

   * Armenian City Chooses Radiation Over Hunger

   * Another Israeli Crop Formation Found

   * FBI Said To Read Over 20% Of All Email

   * 2000 Asteroids Could Hit Earth - Only 200 Located
     So Far

   * Flying Through the Ages - Around The World In An
     Ultralight Next?

   * Mind Machine Tests UK's Psychic Powers

   * Clinton 'Thugs' Said Singing Like Canaries -
     Indictments Soon?

   * Warning - Solar Flares May Cause More Havoc Than Y2K

   * War Games In Alabama - 'Tell Someone Next Time'

   * Evidence Shows Crop Genetic Engineering 7500 Years
     Ago

Read these fascinating articles and dozens more at
www.sightings.com All stories are saved and archived
in our huge DataPages section

                        ---<+>---

                  JEFF RENSE EXCLUSIVE

     Dr. Vendyl Jones (aka "Indiana Jones") will be a
     featured guest on Monday, April 5th. His areas of
     expertise include the Land of Israel's mysteries
     and anomolies, his ongoing search for the Ashes
     of the Red Heifer and the Ark of the Covenant,
     and the conspiracy and cover-up concerning the
     Dead Sea Scrolls.

         Monday, April 5th! Mark your calendar!

                        ---<+>---

                 *** FEATURE ARTICLES ***

America Under Siege
By Joseph Farah , =A9 1999 Western Journalism Center

Joseph Farah is editor of WorldNetDaily.com and Executive
Director of the Western Journalism Center, an independent group
of investigative reporters.

     I will be 45 later this year, and not in my lifetime
     have I witnessed as many urban and rural military
     exercises taking place within the borders of the
     United States as I have seen in recent months. The
     National Guard, the Army, the Special Forces, even
     the Navy are stepping up their off-base training
     practices.

     Many excuses are being issued from the Pentagon and
     from the various military forces for these maneuvers.
     None of them make sense. There's something about the
     context in which these exercises are occurring that
     puts the lie to all the official statements.

     Take the Marine Corps' vaunted Urban Warrior program,
     for instance. Officially, we are told that this
     program is intended to develop technologies and
     strategies that allow the military to win future
     foreign wars in urban settings while minimizing
     collateral damage. The public relations people tell
     us that Marines must learn how to fight in city
     streets surrounded by skyscrapers with impaired
     views from surveillance satellites. They tell us the
     exercises will help establish the U.S. military's
     credibility in situations requiring humanitarian
     relief. And they say that we must prepare for
     subduing threats from domestic terrorists armed with
     weapons of mass destruction.

     But all this doesn't add up. It doesn't compute. It
     doesn't pass the smell test. ...

The entire text of this story is at sightings.com

-----------------


                *** THIS WEEK'S GUESTS ***
                   3-28-99 thru 4-3-99

(Please note Jeff's Guest schedule can change due
to late breaking stories, etc)

SUN 3-27
     David Talbot/Walt Thornhill: The Electric Universe

     Kevin Demeritt: Gold As Security

MON 3-29
     David Icke: The Games Continue...

     Jeffrey Steinberg:  Slipping Toward WWIII?

TUE 3-30
     Stanton Friedman vs Laurence Krauss:
     Debate UFO Science

WED 3-31
     Michael Lindemann: Weekly UFO-ET Update

     John Velez: Adbuctions At The Millenium

THU 4-1
     John Jenkins: Mayan Galactic Cosmology

     Joe Bergeron: RenseWorld Report

FRI 4-2
     Frank Joseph: Synchronicity And You

     Eleanor:  Electronic Mind Control In America

SAT 4-3
     David John Oates Reverse Speech Show.
     The discoverer of RS does reversals live on the air!

-------------------------

Here at TGS-ImmunoTex, WE ARE CELEBRATING!  After MONTHS
of pursuit, we have become accepted as PROUD authorized
dealers for one of the oldest and most trusted long term storage food
manufacturers in the world. To show our
appreciation for all of our Rense e-News subscribers we
will give you a 10% rebate (!) until April 10th on the
Safe & Secure package (one year supply for two people).
It was already the best deal out there - now, for you,
it's even better. http://www.immunotex.com/prepare-now/

-------------------------

MYSTERIES OF THE PYRAMIDS, self-published by a man who
was part of the team that entered the secret chamber six
times, took 2,700 microfilms, then spent a decade in
translation. The book they didn't want you to see twenty
years ago is reprinted, http://www.immunotex.com/pyramid/

(Thanks, Ray, for your call yesterday, telling us how
"blown away" you were by the info. Coming from one as
studied as you - that was a thrill.)

-------------------------

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"War always means fear and fear is the weapon most
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http://www.immunotex.com/icke/ (temporary mirror)






   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 27

                Crew Reunion: 'Philadelphia Experiment' Never

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 05:10:53 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:03:04 -0500
Subject: Crew Reunion: 'Philadelphia Experiment' Never


Source: The Philadelphia Inquirer,

http://www.phillynews.com/inquirer/99/Mar/26/city/CSHIP26.htm

Stig

***

March 26, 1999

Ship's myth keeps reappearing

The legend says the Eldridge vanished briefly in 1943.

By Lacy McCrary
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER



ATLANTIC CITY -- The truth is out here. It is in a hospitality
room of a boardwalk hotel, with some old salts sitting around
white-clothed tables laughing at reports that their ship was
involved in a top-secret World War II experiment.

Sailors who served on the USS Eldridge, the ship that legend
says vanished briefly in 1943 at the Philadelphia Navy Yard, met
here this week for their first reunion in 53 years and spent
part of their time joking about the so-called Philadelphia
Experiment.

The Eldridge, they said yesterday, may well have been invisible
to Philadelphia because it was never in Philadelphia.

The ship's log and several veterans who were on the ship from
its launching on July 25, 1943, at Port Newark, N.J., say it
called on many East Coast ports, but never Philadelphia.

Two movies, two books and several Web sites have kept the myth
about the Eldridge alive. As the story goes, the destroyer
escort was surrounded by a greenish fog, disappeared for a few
minutes, then reappeared.

But none of the veterans believes it.

"I think it's somebody's pipe dream," said Ed Wise, 74, of
Salem, Ind.

Ted Davis, 72, of Grand Island, Neb., was more emphatic. "It
never happened," he said.

Bill Van Allen, 84, who was executive officer and then captain
of the Eldridge in 1943 and 1944, said he never saw any sign of
experiments aboard the ship. "I have not the slightest idea how
these stories got started," said Van Allen of Charlotte, N.C.

These former sailors said they sometimes had fun pretending the
experiment actually occurred. "When people would ask me about
it, I would play along with them and tell them I disappeared.
After a while they realized I was pulling their legs," said Ray
Perrino, 72, of Cranston, R.I.

None of the 15 at the reunion could explain why writers picked
their ship, out of the thousands that sailed in the war, as the
site of invisibility experiments.

Frankly, some are tired of being asked about it.

"We can't wait to put it to rest. We can't because it keeps
coming up," Davis said. "I'm still asked about it now, mostly by
younger people."

"I have a Pennsylvania auto license DE-173 [ the designation and
number of the Eldridge ] , and every once in a while somebody
will stop and ask me if it was really true," said Mike
Perlstein, 72, of Warminster.

"I tell them I know nothing about it. I've seen the movie, and
it's a good movie, but there's no truth to it," Perlstein said.

The Navy said it had received so many inquiries through the
years about the Philadelphia Experiment -- the title of a 1984
movie, a 1993 sequel and two books -- that it prepared and sends
out a fact sheet.

The Navy said the myth dated to 1955 with the publication of The
Case for UFO's by the late Morris K. Jessup. It said Jessup
later received letters from a Carlos Miguel Allende, who gave a
New Kensington, Pa., address, and claimed he witnessed the ship
becoming invisible from another vessel. Allende also said the
ship was "teleported" to and from Norfolk, Va., in a few minutes
with some terrible aftereffects for crew members.

Questions about the experiment probably arose from "quite
routine" research at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard during the
war, according to the Navy fact sheet.

"It was believed the foundation for the apocryphal stories arose
from degaussing [ demagnetizing ] experiments which have the
effect of making a ship undetectable or 'invisible' to magnetic
mines," the Navy said.

But the Navy said it had never conducted invisibility
experiments, either in 1943 or at any other time.

The legend says the ship became invisible on July 22, 1943, but
ship records and the veterans say it was not launched until July
25. The second experiment, in which the Eldridge was sent to
Norfolk and back to Philadelphia, was supposed to have occurred
on Oct. 28, 1943. The ship's log says it was at the Brooklyn
Navy Yard on that date, but did spend two days in the Norfolk
Navy Yard in November 1943.

The gray-haired men, some wearing baseball caps with "USS
Eldridge" printed on them, chuckled as they ribbed one another
about the mental problems the crew supposedly suffered from the
experiments.

"The only part of the book I think is true is the part about the
crew being a little crazy," said Ed Tempany, 75, of Carteret,
N.J. He referred to The Philadelphia Experiment: Project
Invisibility by William L. Moore in consultation with Charles
Berlitz.

"When I get home I'm going to apply for disability," Perrino
said, with a smile.

"Beam me up, Scotty," said Tempany.







                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 27

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:26:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:08:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:04:30 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

I have a sort of vacant fondness, rather like that I feel for
moss piglets, for anyone who can turn a few paragraphs' musing
into the occasion for a 17K rant sorry reply, and am considering
instituting a Max Burns Trophy - a gilded pig's ear set in
burnished dinosaur coprolite, with plaque in EPNS - for the best
example (shortest comment and longest response) in any calendar
year. So far Max is winning by an insult, but would it be right
to award a person a prize named after himself? Would this lead
to accusations of prejudice on the part of the judges? Suppose
Max rejected the award? Would its existence corrupt the
notoriously erudite, puritanical and highly-focussed "ufological
community" (aka King Lear's devoted family) into trying to
compose very short sentences calculated only to provoke
reactions comparable in verbal fallout to the results of nuclear
fusion?

These are weighty questions and will probably be the occasion of
deep thought and little action, itself possibly a sign that
Mendoza is catching some kind of ufological disease, and should
spend more time studying Aeschylus and steam engine blueprints
instead of laughing at the MJ-12 SOM, whose 'hot lead' settings
can be reproduced by any clown with a working knowledge of Quark
or Pagemaker and enough time and triviality to spare.

No, I don't digress. Replying to such a screed calls
occasionally for lengthy quotation. All that was by way of
apologizing for the length of this post. But you reap what you
sow.

>>I am at loss to reconcile Arnold's various descriptions of what
>>he saw, and the two illustrations he endorsed -

>What's so difficult to reconcile? All his initial descriptions
>were of a thin, flat, disc-like objects, rounded in front, but
>not in back. _Later_ he added that the lead object was
>differently shaped, being wider and crescent- like, or something
>like a flying wing. That's the source of the two different
>descriptions. He was describing two different shapes: 8 objects
>were of one shape, 1 was of another.

Yes, thankyou. <------this is an example of IRONY.

A bit later on Rude Yak gets a little flecky round the mandibles
with this--

>What's the matter with you Brits anyway? Are you
>speaking something other than English these days?

--which has a passing interest of its own as a bit of
ethnocentric myopia. But. While I admit to an occasional
difficulty in speaking English - depends what I'm doing when
addressed - I can certainly read it, and what I read in that
little rave above about reconciliation demonstrates Rudiak's
incapacity to absorb even a simple sentence.

Read this very slowly. I find it difficult to reconcile 1a)
Arnold's descriptions and 1b) the pictures he endorsed (it isn't
certain, I understand, whether the sketch on the USAF report was
by him or by one of the investigating officers) with 2) saucers.
In other words 1a + 1b do not add up to 2.

I have no difficulty reconciling 1a and 1b. The sentence I wrote
doesn't suggest I did. Anyone, of whatever ethnic origin, who
can read English, can surely see that. Apart from Bruce
Maccabee, endorser of the Carp fraud and other ufological
achievements, who admires Rudiak's patience here, to no avail,
but revealing his own impatience with a plain enough sentence.
What, I may also ask, are David Rudiak's ethnic credentials, and
do they qualify him to understand English? Is such a question
irrelevant? Very likely. We are talking "ufologist" here, with
whom anything is possible, and most things probable.

Somewhere else in his post Rudiak gestures (waves arm, hand,
tentacle, claw, or whatever) at Mendozian word games. Mmm hmm.
Well, what (apart from an invitation to merriment) is this?--

>That's why Arnold said _like_ a saucer or _like_ a disk or
>_like_ a piepan, i.e., thin, flat, and rounded, words he also
>used. But Arnold also emphasized that they didn't appear to be
>completely round, but were chopped in the back and seemed to
>come to something like a point. He also used the term _somewhat_
>batshaped to describe the same thing. That's what the trailing
>edge in my text drawing is trying to depict.

I can't speak for anyone else, least of all ufologists, but when
a person says something is _like_ a saucer or _like_ a disk, a
certain image arises in my mind, spontaneously and unbidden. And
that image is symmetrical and circular. It does not resemble a
bat. It bears no relation to a crescent moon. It is not "chopped
in the back". It's round. Like an O. Or a bicycle wheel. Or the
ridge made by a condom still in its packet or the soundhole in
my Spanish guitar.

I will digress a little - word games being in question - into
the character of Jesse Marcel Sr - Rudiak's hero, as I recall -
and the curious defense made somewhere once by Kevin Randle of
Marcel's unsavory collation of lies, fantasies and falsehoods
about his military career. Marcel said he flew "as" a
bombardier, co-pilot, and gunner in WW2. To any simple
one-celled organism that means he sat in the appropriate seat
and performed the appropriate actions. Randle maintained Marcel
could fly - apparently, on combat missions - "as" any of those
things without actually having to do the job. Bit tricky if you
run into trouble, or have to drop the odd bomb, and I wouldn't
trust a man in the air with a Browning .50MG who couldn't get a
decent small-arms score on the range, but I suppose someone
might be stupid enough to take the risk. Common sense would tell
you Marcel was, um, exaggerating for the sake of effect, however
- if he wasn't actually telling whoppers, which in the context
seems rather likely. If I told you I have flown as a co-pilot of
a Lincoln bomber, you might just believe me until you found out
I know about as much about flying planes as I do about surveying
for oil deposits. However, I have once sat in the front
right-hand cockpit seat of a Lincoln in the air and even tugged
at the steering column a bit. I was about 10 years old at the
time. Still, I did fly "as" the co-pilot, and I can tell
everyone that too if I feel like it, which is about as
meaningful in truth as maintaining that something "like" a
saucer isn't necessarily the same shape as a saucer, in fact it
could even be bat shaped, which is what I would tend to call
"like a bat", but perhaps I am just picky, or maybe don't know a
pie-pan from a bain marie.

Arnold, we all agree, also said what he saw was FLAT like a pie
pan. Which is also a circular object but it is flat. Saucers are
not flat. Looking through the wrong end of the cultural
telescope, they look like upside-down UFOs, actually, and why
the public mind flipped the saucer to create the UFO image is
anyone's guess. There is no question but that everyone latched
on to the saucer, disk, and pan similes and ignored the
chopped-off half of what Arnold saw, and lo and behold strange
round flying things have been reported ever since. Sometime in
the 1960s flying triangles began to "appear", and have been
notably fashionable since the late 1970s, but the classic UFO is
round, just as shown in those unimpeachable photographs by
Messrs Trent, Meier, Darbyshire, Adamski, Heflin, Walters, &c.

Without direct quotes, Arnold was also reported (note that word,
reported) as saying

>Pendleton East Oregonian and Portland Oregon Journal, June 26:
>"He also described the objects as 'saucer-like' and their motion
>'like fish flipping in the sun.'"

and, directly

>Norman Oklahoma Transcript, June 26:  "They were shaped like
>saucers and were so thin I could barely see them..."

which last does indeed dispose of my hypothesis of a
media-influenced feedback loop into Arnold's perception, and I
apologize for wasting everyone's time with that.

Nonetheless. He says says "shaped like saucers", and a saucer is
not the same shape as a bat, or a half a saucer, or a semi-circle,
or a half-moon, or a share of a pizza sliced by two strict
egalitarians. A saucer is round.

Has anyone seen a saucer that isn't round? This enquiring mind
would like to know. Just for the record.

But

>Arnold also emphasized that they didn't appear to be
>completely round

and

>>"Flat like a pie-pan" is not the same as "saucer-shaped".

>Good grief! So Brookesmith _is_ playing word games. How about
>where Arnold said in Chicago Tribune, June 25: "They were
>silvery and shiny and seemed to be shaped like a pie plate."

>"_Shaped_ like a pie plate." Get it?

Yes. A pie pan is round, archetypally. No doubt some are not.
But say "pie pan" and a round shape conjures itself in the mind,
if you have one. Arnold knew that, too, or else this

>Or how about his radio interview of June 25? "They looked
>something like a pie plate that was cut in half with a sort of a
>convex triangle in the rear."

makes no sense at all, or conjures some altogether strange shape
not amenable to analogy - such as that of a bat, perhaps, or a
cat sitting in a marmite, or the hatchet on my coat of arms -
who knows?

Rudiak plays word games:

>Arnold very clearly was describing the _shape_ as
>saucer-like, or disk-like, or pie-pan-like: thin, flat, and
>rounded, except from the rear end which wasn't rounded.

And I look like a human being, except for the long red tail, the
horns on my head, the scales on the backs of my hands, and the
fact that my feet are cloven hoofs. David Rudiak can see that as
plain as flickering torchlight, but he insists I'm human really,
and so do most other people, except those who've seen me asleep
(when I look like a bat hanging on a wall), but they kind-of
overlook that because of my impeccable table manners and
extraordinary effect on the sommelier.

Fact is, either I am a goddam demon, or I am a human, and
likewise Arnold either saw a set of saucer-like objects (round
objects) or something else (half-moon, bat shape, &c). There is
no in between in either case. Nor any two ways. But Rudiak
insists there are two ways; have cake: eat it. Yum.

To some extent Arnold was playing word games too, although
unconsciously, because he was struggling to describe something
that was entirely unfamiliar to him. In the process he threw out
a lot of potentially confusing images, as anyone might, and
possibly confused his auditors too. But you don't have to be
Frank Raymond Leavis to work out that what he saw wasn't
actually round, though he likened them to a whole bunch of other
round things in striving to draw some kind of simple analogy.

>>Either way, I'll be glad to see the record set straight. Either
>>way, too, it does seem >as if the saucer image came from the
>>media,

>How long are you going to play that silly skepti-bunker game
>Peter? First you say you'll be glad to set the record straight.
>Setting the record straight would mean that you acknowledge
>Arnold described the shape as saucer-like or disc-like right
>from the beginning and the media was merely quoting him.

>Then you contradict yourself by saying the "saucer image came
>from the media," meaning you think the media invented the
>description. Therefore you have no intention of "setting the
>record straight."

I'm duly grateful, as already said, for your quotes from
newspapers both from Arnold and in showing that the term "flying
saucer" emerged somewhere around the 4 July holiday in 1947.
There's no contradiction in what I said, or what I'm saying now.
It's true I had no intention of setting the record straight,
having no records to adjust. But I welcome the information
you've provided. Your interpretation otherwise looks like - oh,
dear - a species of literary criticism, and of rather an
inferior kind. This is supposedly the exclusive sin of
psychosocialists. Are you a librarian or an English major, by
any chance?

Arnold saw what he saw, whatever they were. He reported them.
The press reported his words, or versions of them. It is as
plain as a pie pan in a skivvy's fist or a black bat against the
sunset that the "saucer image came from the media," insofaras
what other people then reported were like pie pans and saucers,
but whole ones, not ones "chopped at the back" or like bats and
even not like bats. In very plain English, the quirky details of
Arnold's sighting weren't reflected in what was later reported,
photographs from Arizona notwithstanding. So: either Arnold did
not see what we might loosely call "flying saucers", or the
sorcery of the public mind picked up and digested the
sauceriness of Arnold's accounts, and regurgitated it in reports
of odd objects in the sky.

That is the media influence. It isn't the only influence. As FR
Leavis did say, a text exists in a "Third Realm" between the
writer and the reader. The public supplied something of its own,
it seems to me, if only by selective reading, aka unconscious
editing. Thus the flying saucer was born. Make of that what you
will, but that was the point I was originally making. Rudiak's
book of quotations passes muster as satisfactory evidence of
that wicked psychosocial hypothesis.

In passing:

I have no idea what the Trent photos were of, but Rudiak is
welcome to the estate's glebe farm, the horses, the truck, and
the entire contents of the wine cellars except the d'Yquem if he
can show the world the Trents snapped ET craft.

Perhaps characteristically, he missed the smiley after the comment
about geese. I don't think Arnold saw geese. I think it's quite
possible he saw pelicans, but that's another story and we've been
through it before on this List. Too bad I can't resist the
temptation to push another chap's buttons, I guess.

And I'd be delighted to add Jean van G's 3D rendition of the
sketch in the USAF report to my archive of funny pictures. Fire
it down the line whenever you like.





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   Mar > Mar 27

                 Port Charlotte, Florida Man Films Two UFOs

From: Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:33:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:33:50 -0500
Subject: Port Charlotte, Florida Man Films Two UFOs


Source: Charlotte Sun Herald News Archive

http://www.sun-herald.com/newsarchive2/112798/ch3ew3.htm


11/27/98


Port Charlotte man films two UFOs

'Ball of fire' not explained by meteor shower, experts say

Jim DeVoy, 38, of Port Charlotte, saw something astronomical on
his way home the afternoon of Nov. 16.

As he was pulling into his driveway at 530 Lakehurst Ave., he
looked up through the windshield of his '93 Dodge pickup truck
and saw "a ball of fire" streaking slowly toward the horizon.

"It looked like something out of 'Armageddon,' " he said. "It
was headed straight down."

He jumped out, dashed inside, grabbed his video camera and
started filming the object.

About that time, he saw a second, smaller object in the sky. He
couldn't film both at the same time, so he trained the camera on
the "ball of fire."

"It was creeping toward the horizon for an entire minute," he
said.

The videotape shows an object perhaps as broad as a thumbnail at
arm's length traveling slowly toward the horizon, with a
brightly illuminated, fan-shaped tail of vapor.

The image is jittery and comes in and out of focus as DeVoy
adjusts the telephoto lens.

On the soundtrack, one can hear birds chirping, a passing car
and DeVoy calling for his wife. "Kathy! Kathy!" he says.

There's no noise from the unidentified flying object.

After 60 seconds, the silhouette of rooftops of neighboring
houses and trees come into view as if the object was flying well
past them and far overhead. It disappears below the horizon.

Without stopping his camera, DeVoy swings around, looking for
the second object.

"I knew there was something else up there, but I couldn't take
my eyes off the first one (until it was gone)," he said. "I
panned over to the other one."

The second object seemed to be traveling faster, more like a
rocket, he said. It was moving more southerly, from right to
left, and lower in the horizon, so the paths of the two objects
would have intersected beyond the horizon.

He filmed the second object until it passed behind some palm
trees.

DeVoy's life hasn't been quite the same since.

He said he's shown the videotape to two television stations.

One ran a short clip of the first shot as promotion for its
newscasts about the Leonid meteor shower that peaked last week.

The other news station rejected the film as a fake, after its
meteorologist said the objects couldn't be asteroids.

But DeVoy's family members remain stunned by the film.

"My mother was like, '(The news stations) don't want to use it?
Something's up,' " said DeVoy, grinning.

"I was really astounded by it," said his mother, Jean DeVoy. "I
thought it was kind of frightening."

DeVoy's sister, Dianne DeVoy, said she expected to see a film of
a "shooting star." But what she saw on the tape appeared much
more ominous.

"I thought it was a meteor getting chased by a missile," she
said.

DeVoy then brought the film to the Sun Herald. The newspaper
posted the video clip on its Internet site
(www.sunline.net/ufo/).

Dr. Ed Smith, an astronomy teacher at Edison Community College
in Punta Gorda, said there are space objects large enough to
appear like a ball of fire as they burn up in the atmosphere.

But they would be moving at some 500,000 mph -- like shooting
stars. DeVoy's UFO didn't appear to be moving that fast.

"It was quite strange, I thought," said Dr. Brian Bowman, a
professor of physics at Florida Gulf Coast University, after he
viewed the video on the Internet.

Bowman majored in astrophysics and will be teaching a course on
astronomy next spring.

"It appeared that the meteorite's profile didn't change. And the
second one -- it doesn't even look real.

"The resolution wasn't good, but it looks like a white rod. ...
It kind of looks fishy."

Meteors are particles the size of pebbles that have fallen off a
comet. They leave narrow trails, appear more distant and move
extremely fast, he said.

Asteroids are larger chunks of rock and are less common. They're
big enough to leave huge craters if they hit the earth, like one
in Arizona.

One of those hitting the earth would not go unnoticed, experts
said.

What about a rocket? Bowman said their smoke trails don't look
like the ones shown on the film, he said.

Cruise missiles? They fly like a jet, but leave no trail, he
said.

"You want to minimize their visibility," he said. "There's a lot
of defense-minded activity associated with them."

Dave McQuade, president of the Southwest Florida Astronomical
Society in Fort Myers, said he was very interested in seeing the
video.

In fact, he has invited DeVoy to show the tape at the club's
next meeting Thursday.

A NASA space station payload processing supervisor, Joe DeLai,
will be the guest speaker at the event.

McQuade also said the object DeVoy described was moving too slow
to be either an asteroid or a meteor.

"My hunch is what he probably saw is a satellite reflecting the
sun," he said.

But, when told the object left a vapor trail, he said a
commercial jet was "more plausible."

"There's no way it was a rocket," said Bruce Buckingham, a
spokesman for NASA at the Kennedy Space Center. "I'd say it
could look quite a bit like a rocket. It's not a rocket. There
aren't any rockets that fly like that.

"You can look up into the clouds with the right light and, by
golly, you're seeing a dragon," he added. "I'm sure it's just an
optical trick."

A report of DeVoy's sighting was sent to the National UFO
Reporting Center in Seattle.

Peter B. Davenport, director of the center, said last week he
would have UFO investigators study the video before commenting
on it.

But he said for the past 10 weeks, UFO sightings have hit
all-time highs.

There have been 66 sightings this month, 127 in October, 164 in
September and 56 in August. The center makes no claims about the
authenticity of the reports.

Some of the objects reported were triangular, some round and one
was "like an X on its side with the long parts connected."

Many are described as fast-moving lights that defy the typical,
steady flight patterns of conventional aircraft or shooting
stars.

There were half a dozen UFO sightings Monday and Tuesday as the
meteor shower passed.

For example, at 11:41 p.m. Monday in Kansas City, Mo., a police
supervisor reported getting a call from his girlfriend on his
cellular phone.

She described a UFO as an "orange, glowing, round object leaving
a trail behind it."

She felt as though it was coming after her, so she fled into a
relative's house, the cop told the UFO center.

"We are honest, churchgoing people and have no need to be
dishonest or phony," he wrote.

A man in Tavares, Fla., reported a UFO at 11:55 p.m. Tuesday.
The craft passed silently at an altitude of 1,500 feet with all
its lights out as if on a covert approach to Orlando
International Airport, he said.

"It looked like a stealth aircraft," he said.

Davenport said the sightings have little to do with the meteor
shower, which are remnants of the comet P/55 Tempel-Tuttle,
which crossed near earth's orbit in February.

The only correlation between the meteor shower and UFO sightings
is that more people were outside at night watching the sky
because of the shower, Davenport said.

"It is rarely the case that a person mistakes a shooting star
during a meteor shower for an intergalactic ship," he said.

He said the UFO center has tried to get national news
organizations to investigate the rash of sightings to no avail.

"We've been inundated with UFO reports," Davenport said. "It is
clearly the case, from our vantage point, that the government
and the national press really don't want people to hear about
this."

DeVoy's videotape may be sparking some national interest.

A week ago, DeVoy got a call from a reporter from "Dateline
NBC." The national news magazine had DeVoy rush a tape of the
UFOs via Federal Express to the station's offices in Manhattan.

By Greg Martin

Staff Writer





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Mar > Mar 27

                  Re: Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:53:32 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:43:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement


>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@hotmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Comments On SOM 1-01 Joint Statement
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:45:23 PST

<snip>

>...  We know that someone photographed a
>manual and mailed it to Don Berliner, as stated.  Other
>authentication issues of chronology, type details, format are
>often critical to provide authentication clues.  None of them
>were discussed in the Joint Statement. ...


Hi Bill.

There are a few questions I have regarding the way the SOM 1-01
Majestic-12 Group Special Operations Manual was bound (see the
web site below for images of this manual).

http://the-word-is-truth.org/img/uploads/15.pdf

If this SOM 1-01 manual is a photocopy of an original manual,
then the original seems to have been just a set of loose sheets
of paper.  I say this because if the original manual was bound,
the text in the photocopied pages would exhibit some distortion
closest to the bound side.  There is no distortion of the text.

If this SOM 1-01 manual is an original manual, why then are the
loose sheets bound with what is identical to a modern ACCO metal
binder strip (or whatever they are called)?  I checked through
my office for other metal binder strips and I found very
different looking ones which were used to bind together older
papers (none older than from the mid-1960s).  One old ACCO metal
binder strip had narrow slit holes rather than the round holes
in the modern ones.  Did metal binder strips exist in the 1950s?
If they did, would they look identical to modern ACCO metal
binder strip that the SOM 1-01 manual is bound with?

Has this different authentication issue been addressed by anyone
in the past?

I would also suspect that any such important document like the
SOM 1-01 manual that was intended to be used as an instruction
manual would have bigger left margins if it were to be bound by
metal binder strips.  How could you otherwise read the entire
text on some pages?  Maybe this SOM 1-01 manual consisted as
loose sheets after all (possibly trimmed down from a larger
page size spine bound book?) that were later bound with metal
binder strips.

I have one additional observation.  Many of the new lab manuals
students purchase for use in our physics labs are in terrible
condition by the end of the academic year.  Also, some of my own
not so old and not frequently used equipment manuals look very
used, especially the front covers.  How could such an important





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   Mar > Mar 27

                            Re: Filer's Files #12

From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:57:52 +0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:46:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12


>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:23:43 EST
>Subject: Filer's Files #12
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>Filer's Files #12-1999,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
>George A. Filer,   MUFON Eastern Director,
>March 25, 1999,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020

>WASHINGTON ELK ABDUCTION BY UFO CASE

>There were no exterior signs of mutilation;
>no black light fluorescence found on hair samples.  The only
>possible indicator was the fact that the elk had been lying
>there in the open for 5 days and there was no predation or
>scavenging.

>Also, the dog ticks had not left the body nor did
>they show movement when touched -- we presumed they were dead
>also.  We have been told that when an animal dies, the ticks
>leave the 'sinking ship.'

George,

I find this very interesting, does this imply that whatever
killed the elk also killed the ticks? That the method of death
was extra-ordinary, as in not the usual hunter/natural death
type causes?

What could cause this to happen?

Cheers





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   Mar > Mar 27

                         Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

From: John Ratcliff <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:00:38 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:48:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples


>From: Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc <mbalien@tin.it>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Michael Wolf's Samples
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:47:52 +0100

>On 23 March, we received news of Sims's lab results carried out
>on Michael Wolf's sample sent to Bill Hamilton. The report
>states that the sample is only made out of pure silicon and and
>no ET element.


What an exciting discovery!!  I have only just now learned that
silicon is not an ET element!!

Wow!

Hmmm..query?  What's an 'ET element'?

John W. Ratcliff





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   Mar > Mar 27

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:24:59 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:53:55 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


Okay friends (I really mean that), as one who's a
rancher/hunter's son and one who has had more than a little
training and an interest in things scientific, I have to say
that the cause of said Elk's death is due to the extreme winter
we are having, period. The poor thing likely starved to
death-check the stomach contents.

Okay the brain too but even if the stomach's full what is in it?
Ungulates are not ,meat eaters in desparate times they would
have a hard time eating meat due to the lack of upper front
teeth. However bark, tree limbs et. al. are likely, however
indigestible.

I am refering to animals in the wild, not some semi tame or tame
Critter. I have a cat that eats pizza crust, not a likely
predatory victim, unless said crust is placidly grazing on my
plate.






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   Mar > Mar 28

             MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating MJ-12

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:09:09 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:43:30 -0500
Subject: MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating MJ-12


The document can be found in "gif"-format at

http://www.pufori.org/articles/images/paperclip.gif

and comments at

http://www.pufori.org/articles/mj12_collins_1949_paperclip_foia.htm

Thanks to Robert Collins and Jeroen Wierda at Picard UFO
Research International (PUFORI),

Stig

***


1949 Paperclip FOIA, JIOA Memo No.1412-CIA Mj-12

by Robert Collins


Posted with Author's Permission


I received this document from Ryan Wood, Wood Enterprises, 1321
Marshall Street, Ste 106, Redwood City, CA 94063 on February
15th, 1999: Phone/Fax 650-368-5026. Below are quotes from the
letter that Ryan Wood sent with the FOIA document seen in
figure.

"This is a Nov. 7, 1985 FOIA release related to Paperclip files
that most likely Linda Hunt (author of Secret Agenda, 1991) was
successful in declassifying. She was the head of CNN's
investigative journalism unit and successfully sued for the
release of some 82 boxes now within RG 330 at the National
Archives."

"Tim Cooper later requested, we believe, items from CIA about
PAPERCLIP which resulted in the attached release. There are many
other papers in this release with the same date, Nov, 7, 1985,
and on the same topic."

"Specifically, the document refers to project 63, which Linda
Hunt wrote extensively on in her book. In short, it was an
operation to bring German, Nazi, and unique scientist over to
the US from 1945-1990 for either cost-effectiveness or national
security reasons."

Fig: Project 36 (12 APR 1949). Click to enlarge


Added: 03-19-99


"No. 902 mentioned in the document has been recovered from the
archives, RG 330 as a result of Linda Hunt's efforts. It
completely supports the document in question."


Comments: Note the CIA Top Secret Mj-12 file distribution in
lower left corner: And, the number in lower right corner: Then,
notice that is the same number sequence as on page two of the
1st Annual Report reference the New Mj-12 Documents at,

http://www.pufori.org/articles/mj12_new_document_scans.htm

Robert Collins '99


******


WWW design and text editing Copyrighted =A9 1996-1999 by Jeroen
Wierda Picard UFO Research International






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   Mar > Mar 28

                     Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy

From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 02:20:48 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:52:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy


>From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@DC.SEFLIN.ORG>
>To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
>Subject: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:24:36 -0500

>Via: Skywatch International Inc. <skywatch@ltlb.com>
>From: Bill Hamilton [mailto:skywatcher22@hotmail.com]


With all due respect, these Italian "analyses" do not make any
sense at all. The percentages 99.9% and 0.01% DO NOT ADD UP so
the alleged 0.01% of "ET isotope" or "unknown" is nonsensical
and certainly does NOT confirm the "trustworthiness and
credibility" of Wolf or "further increase the value of all his
sayings" -- if he used the same erroneous 0.01% figure that is
embarrassingly due to a failure of grade-school math.  There is
no mention at all of WHAT alleged laboratory analyses were
carried out to supposedly identify the "isotopes" (wrong
terminology, there are only isotopes of the same element, but
nuclides of differing elements).  What were the percentages of
the different Si (silicon) isotopes Si 28, Si 29 and Si 30?
Were they of normal naturally-occurring abundance?

If you're going to go into all this length of text with
percentages then the alleged "most advanced laboratory devices"
should be stated along with sensible details, otherwise spare us
the irrelevant banter and backscratching.

I'm sorry to say but if anyone tested the sample on a mass
spectrometer and tried to claim there was 0.01% (or 0.1%)
"unknown" they'd be laughed out of scientific meetings as
hopelessly misguided.  You wouldn't even know there was _any_
percentage "unknown" unless it in fact was registered on the
spectrometer and therefore wouldn't be "unknown" any longer.
There is no way to obtain such an exact _quantitative_value_ as
0.01% or 0.1% and still have it be "unknown."  I suspect that
whoever is behind these "analyses" simply don't know what
they're talking about and are just masking ignorance with
scientific-sounding gibberish.

I haven't seen the US lab analyses and don't know whether they
are available on the Web.

Brad Sparks






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   Mar > Mar 28

                    Re: 'Alien' Skeleton In MUFON Journal

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 02:06:22 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:05:10 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Alien' Skeleton In MUFON Journal


Fellow UpDates Members,

About a week ago I posted news of the MUFON Journal skeleton
article. I also posted that Jimmie L. Holman claimed it was a
fake and had a website concerning the same. In response to the
controversy, Jan Aldrich posted that he spoke with Walt Andrus
and was assured that the skeleton was from an unknown being and
was authentic bone in a plaster cast.

I had to immediately go out of town and could not post another
message at that time. I just returned and downloaded 325 stored
emails (not all UpDates). I have a lot of catching up to do this
weekend. For the record, I want to say that I also spoke with
Walt a week ago, and he assured me that it was a real skeleton
and that Jimmie L. Holman had received misinformation second
hand. I take no position in this.

It is still in the possession of Dr. Slaughter's widow and will
soon undergo DNA and other testing. I asked Walt why he wrote
the article before the testing. He said that he felt it was an
important discovery and that back in December I had inspired him
to get out the news. So (gasp), I'm to blame for this whole
controversy.<G> It is an unknown entity and no one claims at
this time it is an extraterrestrial.

Let's just hold our horses and wait for the test results. I just
returned and I hope to get Dr. Slaughter's book, "Fossil Remains
of Mythological Creatures". I want to see what Dr. Slaughter
wrote about this.

Josh Goldstein





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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #296

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 05:57:27 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:09:16 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #296


Apology to MW #296 (For March 27, 1999)

I'm not all alone in a perilous search, there are others that
hunger to know. Singular folks, with _their_ pants in a bunch,
and yearning to reap what they sow. People that work for their
dreams to come true, people alive, but unfree. People who work
_far_ too hard for too few -- but aware of the scabs on their
knees. People who love in a good kind of way, precluding
possession or pause. People aware of the challenge they seek,
eschewing those men made of straw. Folks made of iron who would
live what is real, folks that would pay a fair share, folks that
look up to the depths of their heavens, and speculate God is not
there! Folks with a mission, folks with a plan, folks that
accept what they don't understand. Tolerant folks, with a
generous flair, looking for truthfulness -- daring to care!

Accused for an anger that measures the way of the lives that we
lead that would lead us astray, I am held in derision undefined
and unquantified, but attacked by your gods held on faith, so
unqualified. And ain't it a bitch as we bring it on home, as we
wire the planet with cellular phones -- that we limp to our
dooms with our prayers on our lips as we pray to dim Gods that
they rescue our ships =85You're bothered I'm angry, yet won't give
an inch when it's me that pays _in_ to the bothersome stench
that is forced from our life-force by horrors unfair that are
made by the ones that don't share, and won't care. Contused and
abridged for the hair on my head, for a sense of fair play, for
explaining my dread, I leap and I scratch for the perilous sky,
demanding to know hidden "what", "how", and "why."

The message is harsh, I'll admit it up front. It writes a big
check sans the trick, dodge, and stunt. I work at the thinking!
I'm willing to change!  I soar, and I cleave, but I _question_
my gains. I read, and I study the fabrics of things that make a
new cloth of the stuff that I think, and I can conclude that the
story I'm told has been short a mixed grill by a chop the *man*
holds! I'm happy to say that I won't go along with intolerance,
hatred, exclusiveness -- wrong. My definition, and so _likely_
not yours -- (if you've stacked sullen decks and you've hip
pocket jurors). I _won't_ tear my eyes from the fathomless sky
that pulses in dances so often described as a shape changing
_saucer_ that stays out of view in a fog that's produced by the
*man*. Is it true?

Conspiracy lives in a cave that it's made with the profits
achieved with its power -- crime pays! And where are the powers
that _you've_ been denied? They own them all! Friend, you're
abused and despised! And you don't even know it, as you suck up
their fog -- heating in sauce pans so slowly, small frog. The
heat comes up slow, and at first it feels good. And soon you are
sleepy, convinced -- understood? And all in it's time, then,
it's too hot, but too late! And then you're mere fodder, alone
on a plate! And who might it be that descends with a knife, with
his fangs all agleam for your soul and your life. Don't look for
Satan -- he's into free will! Yes, he's high on himself, but his
order's not filled. The devil's imbalance (?); it's forcing your
hand! It's casual judgement that ruins the land! It's not caring
_who_ has to pay for your play; it's thinking there's (only)
just _one_ way to pray!

What's this too do with the stuff in our skies? What am I on
about _this_ time you cry? Why am I angry, intense, and
insulting? What's it to do with our saucer consulting? Well,
what if *they're* watching us tromping our dicks, recording us
acting like assholes and pricks! What if they _see_ us behaving
like monsters -- criminals, felons, or knaves and imposters! All
AGREE that they're out there, to a man and his _dog_! "Life has
imperative," it's said from our fog. But, we limit the
*watchers*, assigning _our_ fear -- "We can't get THERE,
*therefore*, they can't get HERE"!  Were it me I don't think I'd
_forgive_ such temerity; amazingly we go un-whacked out of
charity!  But, what if they're watching us act like mere
predators? What if we scare them (?); we risk an indebtedness.
What if we blow our one chance to belong? What if we screw up a
blessing? It's wrong!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Dare to Care! Restore John Ford! It's _your_ freedom to be saved!

--
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more.
Consider Matter, Mind & Movement.
See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration.
Take a ride in the Teleporter.

Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
<Updated 22 March>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$250.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.






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   Mar > Mar 28

             On Ohio Reports W/Military Helicopter Consideration

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:30:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:15:23 -0500
Subject: On Ohio Reports W/Military Helicopter Consideration


My apologies for the length; there was a lot of information to pack
in for this one -- ky
---

UPDATE:

    *Michigan Sightings March '99
    *Toledo Report
    *Disruption in Trumbull County, Ohio and Pennsylvania due to
     military maneuvers thought possibly linked to Fremont, OH
     and other sightings

_._

MILAN, Michigan REPORT

On Friday, March 19, an number of inquiries were prompted by the
following message:

    Mr. Young,
    Hi! I live in Milan Mich, and I understand from a neighbor
    that we also had sightings in Milan for 3 nights in arow.
    The nights were March 14, 15, 16 very late at night around
    1 or 2am in the morning. I'm wondering if you have heard
    anything about this. The Milan police are the ones that
    chased the UFO all 3 nights. Please feel free to email
    me back. Thank-you kindly for reading.

To follow-up with the report [dated March 19], The Milan,
Michigan Police Department was contacted on March 23
[734-439-1551] and the dispatcher was asked about a suspected
UFO sighting reported by officers with the Washtenau County
Sheriff's Department. She suggested that a call be made to the
Sheriff's Department for details. The sightings, she said, were
not reported in the news media, but she knew of them by hearing
about it "through the grapevine."

The Washtenau County Sheriff's Department [734-971-8400] was
then contacted. The call was handled by numerous people at the
department, and transferred to a half-dozen people around the
administrative facilities and in the dispatch office.

A secretary in the administrative facility, Sherry, advised that
the Dispatch Center would have to be contacted for further
information. The telephone number to the dispatch center was
given, 734-971-8400 ext. 1911, and it turned out to be the
original number which was called.

The call was then placed back to the first office contacted, and
the female dispatcher who took the call at that number at 3:45
p.m. on March 23 would not reveal any information, and hung up
the phone against this reporter in an extremely rude fashion.

At no point during the nearly 45-minute ordeal of contacting
this department [via long-distance phone action] would any
employee assist by reviewing records or logs from the night of
March 14, 1999 as requested.

Another attempt to contact the same department was made at 4:20
a.m. on Saturday morning, March 27, with hopes of speaking with
a different and kinder dispatcher. The attempt was not
productive, however, and while not 'hanging up' on this caller,
the dispatcher was abrupt and 'untalkative,' stating only that
they "knew of no sightings."

The attempts to obtain information about the alleged Milan,
Michigan sightings were thought important due to the proximity
in both locations and time to an incident happening in Fremont,
Ohio, where a Sandusky County deputy documented a UFO sighting
on March 14.

For details of this event, see:
    http://home.fuse.net/ufo/Fremont99.htm

Through correspondence with Michigan-area investigator Jeff
Westover, some information surfaced which seemed to shed some
light on the suspected Milan, Michigan report - a recent
newspaper article regarding a 1966 UFO sighting in this same
area. It seems likely that this episode may be due to
'misinformation' given to the reportee by this "neighbor" who
may have misinterpreted reportage given in a March 17th edition
of The Detroit News.

--------------------

      Michigan at the Millennium:
      Crowds turn out to chase UFOs near Milan

      The Detroit News
      March 17, 1999

      By Vivian M. Baulch

UFO sightings often come in bunches, like the spate that
tantalized southeast Michigan in 1966.

After a few days of sighting reports by civilians, on March 17
two Washtenaw County Sheriff's deputies, Sgt. Neil Schneider and
Deputy David Fitzpatrick, said they saw three or four red, white
and green circular objects oscillating and glowing near Milan
about 4 a.m.

They called Willow Run Airport officials but radar could not
confirm the report.

Two more Washtenaw deputies, Buford Bushroe and John Foster,
chased the same types of objects three days later. Livingston
and Monroe County residents also reported seeing the objects.

The Detroit News carried the police chase story and a drawing of
a quilted football-like UFO with lights, dome and antennae.

When Dexter Patrolman Robert Huniwell saw the object at 9:30
p.m. at Quigly and Brand, Washtenaw County Sheriff Douglas
Harvey ordered all available deputies to the scene. Six patrol
cars, two men in each, and three detectives converged on the
area. They chased the flying object along Island Lake Road
without catching it.

Farm owner Frank Mannor and his family said they came within 500
yards, "It wasn't like the pictures of a flying saucer and it
had a coral-like surface," Mannor said.

Carloads of students from nearby University of Michigan and
Eastern Michigan converged on the area after hearing radio
reports.

The Air Force sent in "Project Blue Book" astronomer and UFO
expert J. Allen Hynek, who drove around for two hours and 45
minutes. "Swamp gas" he concluded.

"Marsh gas usually has no smell, but sounds like the small
popping explosions similar to a gas burner igniting. The gas
forms from decomposition of vegetation. It seems likely that as
the present spring thaws came, the gases methane, hydrogen
sulfide and phosphine, resulting from decomposition of organic
materials, were released."

But William Van Horn, a local civil defense director and pilot
who claimed he had seen the UFOs, was outraged by the report. A
Hillsdale native, Van Horn said he grew up next to a swamp and
knew more about swamp gas than Hynek.

"A lot of good people are being ridiculed," Van Horn concluded.

                               End of article

---------------------------

Again, it may be possible that the person reporting the Milan
sightings had confused data and thought there had been recent
action in this area, based upon this newspaper report [from two
days previous] regarding a 1966 UFO sighting.

Because of the comments from the dispatcher at the Milan City
Police Department, who stated that she heard through the
grapevine of sightings that were not "reported in the media," it
would be wise to remain open to the possibility of a fresh,
recent sighting happening there. However, it is possible that
this officer may have also been misled by this same article in
the same capacity as the first person reporting the information.

Complicating this easy dismissal could be extra information also
courtesy of researcher Jeff Westover, who reports that: "a
Saginaw, Michigan TV station ran a story last week about UFOs
sighted in the Thumb area..." Jeff is currently in pursuit of
details through his inquiries with a television station [that
may have video recordings] and a 9-1-1 center that took
complaints of UFOs from area residents [Saginaw is 101-miles
north of Milan, and nearly a straight line can be drawn from
Saginaw to Milan and finally to Fremont, Ohio].

        Toledo REPORT

Also within this same 'line' rests Toledo, Ohio, where a strange
UFO situation was alleged through a "UFO Alert" section of an
internet website entitled "UFO Files." Said to have taken place
on March 17, researcher Stig Agermose found and copied the
messages:

    *Posted by Billy Bob on Thursday, 18 March 1999, at 12:55 a.m.--
    "Tonight on TV13 news there was a report of a group of 3 discs
    flying over Toledo and hovering over the downtown area for 7
    minutes, 5 of which were filmed by the TV's News crew. They
    then split and flew in different directions at an amazing rate
    of speed"

    *Posted by plastic on Thursday, 18 March 1999, at 1:02 a.m.--
    "I too saw the broadcast. They only showed about 30 seconds of
    the footage. They mentioned that there had been sightings
    earlier this week of similar craft in the area."

The report of the UFOs sighted over Toledo on March 17 and
videotaped by a news crew may not be factual. A phone call was
placed to the WTVG Channel-13 News station in Toledo, an ABC
affiliate [4247 Dorr Street, Toledo, OH 43607] on March 24.

Upon making contact with an employee in the News Room (419)
534-3858, she informed that she had not heard of any such story.
This writer was placed on hold for about 60-seconds as the
employee presumably asked others in the newsroom, and then
returned to soundly inform that no such video exists and the
report was "untrue."

        Military Maneuvers

With the Fremont, Ohio report [March 14] thought to be a good
focal point from which to corral this other data around, further
details of intrigue were related by Pennsylvania researcher Stan
Gordon who told of an episode involving unusual military
activity over the skies of southwest Pennsylvania on March 18,
involving a 3:00 a.m. incident in which widespread reports of
low-flying military helicopters flooded law enforcement
agencies.

Gordon also related how this unpleasant disruption was reported
on the Jim Quinn "Quinn in the Morning" radio talk-show, where
they had received many calls of complaint. The choppers were
reported over Westmoreland, Allegheny, Beaver, Butler and
Fayette Counties in southwestern Pennsylvania.

More interesting was a caller to [President] Clinton
investigator Larry Nichols that reported an unusual sighting
near Cleveland, Ohio. Nichols told of how a man and his wife
observed -hovering right outside their window- a 'jet fighter' a
horrifying distance of only 50 to 100 feet away [we don't have
an exacting date for this particular sighting]. The witness
described two distinct jet engines on the vehicle, which was not
thought to be a Harrier Jump-Jet [capable of hovering]. More
disturbingly, the witnesses also stated that the aircraft
operated in perfect silence. The aircraft, thought to be white
or silver- colored, tilted its nose back and departed straight
up into the sky.

Extra information bolstering the report of Stan Gordon -and
later thought related to the Fremont, Ohio UFO sighting- was
received with a newspaper article from Trumbull County, Ohio
regarding military action above residential quarters.

----------

      COPTER TRAINING FLIGHT ALARMS RESIDENTS

      Source: The [Trumbull County] Vindicator

      Friday, March 19, 1999
      Page B2 top.

The 12 helicopters flew out of Youngstown, Ohio before dawn,
shaking cruisers and prompting frantic calls from residents to
police in Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Ohio.

Residents of several southwest Pennsylvania counties were jolted
out of sleep at the sound of low-flying helicopters, prompting
numerous calls to police and emergency dispatchers.

Walt Sokalski, spokesman for the U.S. Army Special Operations
Command Public Affairs Office in Fort Bragg, N.C. said a dozen
Army and U.S. Air Force helicopters flew from Youngstown to the
West Virginia state line early Thursday at 800 to 1,000 feet as
part of a training exercise.

"When you're talking 12 helicopters at once, yes, it makes a lot
of noise" Sokalski said Thursday. "We apologize for the
inconvenience, but this is important training for our soldiers."

This was an unusual event for the air reserve base in Vienna,
which normally does training for C-130 transport planes, said
Technical Sgt. Brian Ripple of the base's public affairs office.

He said the route used in the exercise was given just before the
exercise took place Thursday morning. Normally, base officials
would notify the public before such an exercise took place.

"Helicopters are noisy anyway, even if it's a Life-flight
helicopter going to the hospital, but these are much larger," he
said. As a result, Ripple said he did receive some calls from
residents and understood their complaints.

However, Ripple said the exercise was needed to test helicopter
pilots for flying at night.

WHAT OCCURRED

The helicopters made the flight at about 3 a.m. Thursday,
skirting eastern Pittsburgh to avoid commercial airspace and
prompting frantic calls from residents to police and 911
dispatchers in southwest Pennsylvania, northern West Virginia
and eastern Ohio.

James Falcsik of Irwin, Westmoreland County, told KDKA-AM radio
that a helicopter 'buzzed' his house. Police in Penn Township,
Westmoreland County, said they saw helicopters fly low and loud
enough to shake their cruisers.

PURPOSE OF FLIGHT

The army informed state police about the training and surveyed
the area to ensure civilians wouldn't be hurt, Sokalski said.

He said the extended flight was a one-time event and all the
pilots have returned to their respective bases. "They need this
training to do their missions," he said. "They need to operate
in any environment at any time around the world.

                               End of article

-------------------

The March 14th sighting in Fremont, Ohio [witnessed and
documented by a deputy with the Sandusky, Ohio Sheriff's
Department] described objects that were said to be: "clustered
lights, cigar shaped and oscillating." The deputy recorded that
he could not identify the object[s] through his field glasses,
although they did not exhibit ballistic traits incompatible with
conventional aircraft [except possible hovering characteristics
exclusive to a helicopter or Harrier Jump-Jet]. Further, the
primary witness who placed the initial complaint to the
Sheriff's Department was certain the objects, which numbered
from 5 or 6, were neither airplanes or helicopters, but did note
that his family members also detected a 'low-pitched humming
sound.'

A logical point of concern was to determine if these same
military flights reported on March 18 may also have caused
similar consternation on March 14 - but on that date being
reported as UFOs through witness
misinterpretation/misidentification. Could it be that the
Fremont, Ohio [March 14] report -and also the Saginaw/Milan
Michigan report[s] were actually these military flights being
construed as UFOs?

A first step in making this determination was to contact Walt
Sokalski, spokesman for the U.S. Army Special Operations Command
Public Affairs Office in Fort Bragg, N.C. [listed in the
Vindicator article].

In the article, Sokalski said a dozen Army and U.S. Air Force
helicopters flew from Youngstown to the West Virginia state line
"early Thursday at 800 to 1,000 feet as part of a training
exercise."

Of particular interest was the brief reference "early Thursday,"
as the dates of concern would be March 11 [Thursday previous]
and March 14 [Sunday].

Additional UFO reports

Before reviewing the newspaper article, a separate and unrelated
UFO report was received on March 18 regarding UFOs thought to
have been seen in Trumbull County, Ohio on the March 14th date -
same as the Fremont, Ohio police UFO sighting [nearly 131-miles
west of West Farmington, OH]

      Subject: information on March14
      Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:55:19 EST
      From: [deleted for privacy]@aol.com
      To: ufo@fuse.net

      Ken,

      I wrote you before about trumbull county. And while i was
      reading about the Fremont report, I found some simularities
      in the story with some lights my girlfriend and i saw on
      Sunday March 14 at 9:30pm. We saw three lights in the
      northwest, they seemed to be stationary except the right
      one moved. I should say that we saw these lights in West
      Farmington, which is in the northwestern part of Trumbull
      county. I only viewed these lights for only about 5 minutes
      which did not allow me to get a real good idea of what they
      were and how long they were there.

Comment: West Farmington, Ohio is northwest of the Vienna
Airbase by about 15-miles

On Tuesday, March 23, The [Trumbull County] Vindicator was
contacted (1-330-747-1471) and after several inquiries, it was
learned that reporter Chris Whitley prepared the March 19, 1999
news report entitled: "COPTER TRAINING FLIGHT ALARMS RESIDENTS."

"From what I gathered, any helicopter sightings or activity
happening before Thursday, March 18 was not part of the
problem," Whitley stated. "The helicopter ruckus happened during
the week.

"I know of nothing leading up to the ruckus on Thursday, that
was a one-time deal," he said.

Whitley did not contact Ft. Bragg himself, but rather, his
report was based upon an AP wire story that originated out of
Pittsburgh. He did not have contact info for Ft. Bragg public
relations office.

In trying to reach Mr. Walt Sokalski, spokesman for the U.S.
Army Special Operations Command Public Affairs Office in Fort
Bragg, N.C., the following public affairs office associated with
the U.S. Army at Ft. Bragg was located:

     XVIII ABN Corps
     Public Affairs Office Bldg.
     1-1326, Armistead & Macomb
     Fort Bragg, NC 28307-5000
     Phone: (910) 396-5600/5620

This writer called that number and was told Walt Sokalsi was
reachable at the Special Operations Public Affairs Office. For
nearly thirty minutes various 'wrong numbers' were given before
contact with Walt Sokalski [910-432-6005] was finally made at
the US Army Special Operations Command Public Affairs office.

When informed that an attempt was being made to determine if the
UFO sightings on March 11 and March 14 could have been
attributable to these helicopter maneuvers, Sokalski said he
would conduct some research to find out.

"Without knowing the exact location, I can't say. If our unit
had copters in the area, I should be able to get a rough idea
based upon the locality and time of your UFO sightings,"
Sokalski stated.

Mr. Sokalski was given the times of March 11 at 11:45 p.m. in
Clyde, Ohio and March 14 at 11:36 p.m. in Fremont, Ohio. He was
told that the Fremont, Ohio sighting accompanied a police
report, and also that possible sightings could have also been
made by police officers near Milan, Michigan at the same time.

On Thursday, March 25, after conducting his research, Mr.
Sokalski placed a phone call in return, leaving a message to
announce: "They were not OURS."

With the statement by Sokalski denying that there were any Army
Special Operations helicopters flying in or near the vicinities
of Clyde, Ohio or Fremont, Ohio on March 11 and 14, that
specific explanation can be ruled out. If helicopters were to
blame for these sightings, they would have originated from
elsewhere.

Further it may be entirely rational to suspect that if the
consternation would ultimately be attributable to military
action, there may be a highly classified aspect to these
activities involving secretive aircraft [hence aircraft being
reported as UFOs or the unusual 'silent and hovering' jet report
near Cleveland]. To equally balance this area of speculation,
one may also surmise that the later maneuvers [in the days after
the Fremont and Clyde sightings] may be a covert attempt to
obfuscate or complicate suspected UFO sightings. [Additional
note: Army Special Operations are not currently involved in the
NATO conflict involving the bombings in Kosovo].

All speculative musings aside, an interesting correlation in
both location and time of two happenings -UFO sightings and
military helicopter maneuvers- cannot be denied.

Filed;
March 27, 1999
Kenny Young
--
UFO Research





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   Mar > Mar 28

                    Devil'S Triangle/Great Lakes Region?

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 10:27:06 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:25:04 -0500
Subject: Devil'S Triangle/Great Lakes Region?

Note: Tod is one the many UFOR members in the media, and had
produced for The Learning Channel, among others.

From: Tod Mesirow <tmesirow@m2.sprynet.com>

Francisco,

I'm looking for new stories regarding mysterious disappearances
in the Devil's Triangle and in the Great Lakes region......not
Flight 19 or the Edmund Fitzgerald, unless there's any new
information.....but other stories along those lines.....new
stories.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Tod Mesirow





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   Mar > Mar 28

                      CPR-Canada News - March 27, 1999

From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 10:46:36 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:30:06 -0500
Subject: CPR-Canada News - March 27, 1999


CPR-Canada News
E-Mail Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada

March 27, 1999


In This Edition:

Forest Rings Update, New Formation in Israel, Aircraft Needed,
Hoaxer Says Crop Circles are Real, And Now... Duck Circles!


Editor:
Paul Anderson

_____________________________


NEWS AND REPORTS

* Update on "Giant Forest Rings"
* New Crop Circle Formation in Israel
* Aircraft Needed for Crop Circle Research
* Hoaxer Doug Bower Now Claims "Unknown Force"
   Behind Crop Circles
* And Now... Duck Circles!

_____________________________


See News and Reports on the CPR-Canada web site
for links to these news stories and an archive of
previous news:

News and Reports:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/news.html

_____________________________


See also the following links for information on other
CPR-Canada resources:

Main CPR-Canada Web Site (frames):
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310

Report Archive (Canada):
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reports.html

_____________________________


CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of
Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, an affiliate of
Circles Phenomenon Research International,
initiated in 1995 by future studies researcher
Paul Anderson, also founder and director of
The Millennium Project.

CPR-Canada News is published periodically, with
the latest news, information and web site updates
and is available free by subscription; to be added to
or removed from the mailing list, send your request,
including either "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or
"unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address
to

CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions,
by the tel / fax / e-mail hotlines or mail. Forward
all correspondence to:

E-Mail:
psa@direct.ca

Tel / Fax:
604.731.8522

Mail:
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC
V6J 1J
Canada

____________________________


=A9 CPR-Canada, 1999







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   Mar > Mar 28

              Bullwinkle and Arnold, Conspiracy or Coincidence?

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:21:55 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:36:45 -0500
Subject: Bullwinkle and Arnold, Conspiracy or Coincidence?


Kenneth Arnold saw something in the sky over Mt. Rainy.
Bullwinkle was abducted INTO to sky above Mt Rainy! That's
right.... _Rainy!_  Now in thinking about Bullwinkle, well, we
began to develop a theory.

Suppose the pilots of those machines have no, uh, equipment!
Didja ever think of that possibility, huh? Well.  We here at
Gesundt's are actively involved with the aliens.  They buy a
very great deal of our Gripple.  In fact, what enabled us to
sell such massive quantities of Gripple to our space brothers
was our newest ad campaign, directed to "them!"  It went
something like this...

"Keep your abductees cool and calm, Shoot 'em fulla' Gripple,
With an IV thru the arm!"

Well, that did it.  We sell tons of the stuff to them now.  But
to get back to the subject of Winkies, these space brothers of
ours have none.  We know, 'cause we've seen them nekked. It used
to drive them crazy... so when they came here, where nearly
every guy comes equipped, well, they went ballistic.

Unfortunately, many of these space brothers have gotten into
habit of sipping the Gripple instead of saving it for their
abductees. That's where they get into trouble.  They get a
little, uh, confused about which guy to take.  So naturally,
having similar genes to ours, and once having actually _been_
us, their urges run deep. So in their inebriated condition, what
do expect them to do?  That's right, you guessed it, they look
for the biggest one they can find. And Bullwinkle's was just
right.  We can picture the poor little alien, eyes wide (a
little red, too), saying something like, "Cheeses, wouldja look
at that guy's whatsis?!"   So they took the poor little critter
and, uh... well, you know the rest!

Now you ask, "What does this have to do with Arnold?"

A good question.  We'll leave that for our next monograph, which
will be entitled, "On the theory of shape and size and how
aliens do it."  Subtitled, "In space, size really doesn't
matter."

But here, well.. it really does, eh?






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   Mar > Mar 28

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:38:39 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:38:27 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>>From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:24:07 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

<snip>

Is it just me, or does anyone else find this whole report and
discussion absolutely ludicrous? What with this, and the
extraterrestrial skeleton, both of which are a week or so too
early for April Fool's Day, if I were more paranoid I might
start talking about "disinformation" programmes to make
ufologists look like barmpots!

As if...

--
John Rimmer
www.magonia.demon.co.uk
Abandon hope all ye who press Enter here





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   Mar > Mar 28

                         Re: Latest Update From RPIT

From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:48:50 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:49:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Latest Update From RPIT


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:30:58 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject:  Re: Latest Update From RPIT

>Since the Ramey message appears to be a Telex, it was either
>sent or received by teletype at Fort Worth. The best way to
>resolve whatever standard lettering or insignias were at the top
>of the page would be to obtain other samples of Telex messages
>for the base during this time period.

>Anybody know where to check?


Dave,

I've refered to this point in my reply to Brad recently, I seem
to see both corrections and line register mis-alignment at the
end of line 2 in the message within the phrase:

"CONVEY ON TO THE"

The corrections seem to be associated with the end of "CONVAY"
and the "ON", following this the word "TO" is well below the
rest of the earlier line and the final "THE" also seems slightly
below the earlier line also, it seems like a mistake was spotted
with the word CONVAY after ON was typed, the paper wound out,
the correction made then wound back into the machine but not
correctly aligned, this was noticed only after TO was typed and
a further adjustment made by the time THE was typed.

Teletypes used a _very_ limited 5bit code that didn't have the
functions capable of allowing corrections, the basic code didn't
even have "backspace", errors in TX needed to be retyped fully
and the errors were left in the text, it also only had "line
feed" and wouldn't increment parts of lines up and down as the
message exibits.

Now a clerk typing up a manually received, possibly coded
"signal" might make and correct an error in such a way. I don't
know about the AAF but I believe the US Navy only brought in a
full scale teletype network for it's bases sometime in the early
50's, before that _they_ were still using HF radio and Mr
Morse's code for the bulk of their traffic, was it a similar
situation within the AAF?.

>To add my 2 cents to this, there is obviously large lettering at
>the top right of the page, but unfortunately steeply tilted away
>from the camera. My first guess would have been CARSWELL, except
>the base wasn't named that until later. In July 1947 it was
>still Fort Worth AAF.


I agree the last letters _do_ look like 'WELL' and Roswell ends
in the same 4 letters.

Good hunting,

Neil.


-------------------------------------------------------
                     Neil Morris@Home.

Email:             Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk
Web Site:
                  http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/





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                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:13:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:09:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


Regarding:

>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:26:34 -0500
>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

Peter,

Noting that this is a new location for my web site:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/

Under the topic, "The Flying Saucer Genesis", there remains the
following feature:

First Radio Interview with Kenneth Arnold; 25 June 1947

By John Powell

The following is thought to be (considered to be) the first
public interview Kenneth Arnold gave regarding his sighting.
Thanks go to Mike Christol for providing the audiotape. JP.


NEWSCASTER:

The nation, every newscaster, and every newspaper across the
nation has made headlines out of it, and this afternoon we are
honored, indeed, to have here in our studio this man, Kenneth
Arnold, who, we believe, may be able to give us a first-hand
account and give you the same on what happened.

Kenneth, first of all if you'll move up here to the microphone
just a little closer, we'll ask you to just tell in your own
fashion, as you told us last night in your hotel room, and again
this morning, what you were doing there and how this entire
thing started.  Go ahead, Kenneth.

KENNETH ARNOLD:

Well, about 2:15 I took off from Chehalis, Washington, en route
to Yakima, and, of course, every time that any of us fly over
the country near Mt. Rainier, we spend an hour or two in search
of the Marine plane that's never been found that they believe is
in the snow someplace southwest of that particular area.  That
area is located at about, it's elevation is about 10,000 foot,
and I had made one sweep in close to Mt. Rainier and down one of
the canyons and was dragging it for any types of objects that
might prove to be the Marine ship, uh, and as I come out of the
canyon there, was about 15 minutes, I was approximately 25 to 28
miles from Mt. Rainier, I climbed back up to 9200 feet and I
noticed to the left of me a chain which looked to me like the
tail of a Chinese kite, kind of weaving and going at a terrific
speed across the face of Mt. Rainier.  I, at first, thought they
were geese because it flew like geese, but it was going so fast
that I immediately changed my mind and decided it was a bunch of
new jet planes in formation.

Well, as the planes come to the edge of Mt. Rainier flying at
about 160 degrees south, I thought I would clock them because it
was such a clear day, and I didn't know where their destination
was, but due to the fact that I had Mt. Saint Helens and Mt.
Adams to clock them by, I just thought I'd see just how fast
they were going, since among pilots we argue about speed so
much.  And, they seemed to flip and flash in the sun, just like
a mirror, and, in fact, I happened to be in an angle from the
sun that seemed to hit the tops of these peculiar looking things
in such a way that it almost blinded you when you looked at them
through your plexiglass windshield.

Well, uh, I uh, it was about one minute to three when I started
clocking them on my sweep second hand clock, and as I kept
looking at them, I kept looking for their tails, and they didn't
have any tail. I thought, well, maybe something's wrong with my
eyes and I turned the plane around and opened the window, and
looked out the window, and sure enough, I couldn't find any
tails on 'em.  And, uh, the whole, our observation of these
particular ships, didn't last more than about two and a half
minutes and I could see them only plainly when they seemed to
tip their wing, or whatever it was, and the sun flashed on them.
They looked something like a pie plate that was cut in half with
a sort of a convex triangle in the rear. Now, I thought, well,
that maybe they're jet planes with just the tails painted green
or brown or something, and I didn't think too much of it, but
kept on watching them.

They didn't fly in a conventional formation that's taught in our
army, they seemed to kind of weave in and out right above the
mountaintops, and I would say that they even went down into the
canyons in several instances, oh, probably a hundred feet, but I
could see them against the snow, of course, on Mt. Rainier and
against the snow on Mt. Adams as they were flashing, and against
a high ridge that happens to lay in between Mt. Rainier and Mt.
Adams.  But when I observed the tail end of the last one passing
Mt. Adams, and I was at an angle near Mt. Rainier from it, but I
looked at my watch and it showed one minute and 42 seconds.
Well, I felt that was pretty fast and I didn't stop to think
what the distance was between the two mountains.  Well, I landed
at Yakima, Washington, and Al Baxter was there to greet me and
he said ...[unintelligible]... and, he told me, I guess I better
change my brand, but he kind of gave me a mysterious sort of a
look that maybe I had seen something, he didn't know, and well,
I just kind of forgot it then, until I got down to Pendleton and
I began looking at my map and taking measurements on it and the
best calculation I could figure out, now even in spite of error,
would be around 1200 miles an hour, because making the distance
from Mt. Rainier to Mt. Adams, in, we'll say approximately two
minutes, it's almost, well, it'd be around 25 miles per minute.

Now allowing for air, we can give them three minutes or four
minutes to make it, and they're still going more than 800 miles
an hour, and to my knowledge, there isn't anything that I've
read about, outside of some of the German rockets, that would go
that fast.  These were flying in more or less a level, constant
altitude.  They weren't going up and they weren't going down.
They were just simply flying straight and level and I, I laughed
...[unintelligible]..., they sure must have had a tailwind. But
it didn't seem to help me much.  But to the best of my
knowledge, and the best of my description, that is what I
actually saw, and, uh, like I told the Associated Press, I'll,
I'd be glad to confirm it with my hands on a Bible because I did
see it, and whether it has anything to do with our army or our
intelligence or whether it has to do with some foreign country,
I don't know. But I did see it and I did clock it and I just
happened to be in a beautiful position to do it and it's just as
much a mystery to me as it is to everyone else who's been
calling me the last 24 hours, wondering what it was.

NEWSCASTER:

Well, Kenneth, thank you very much.  I know that you've
certainly been busy these last 24 hours, 'cause I've spent some
of the time with you myself, and I know that the press
associations, both Associated Press and our press, the United
Press, has been right after you every minute.  The Associated
and the United Press, all over the nation, have been after this
story.  It's been on every newscast, over the air, and in every
newspaper I know of.  The United Press in Portland has made
several telephone calls here at Pendleton to me, and to you this
morning, and from New York I understand, they are after this
story, and that we may have an answer ...[unintelligible]...
because, if it is some new type of army or navy secret missile,
there would probably a story come out on it from the army or
navy asking, saying that it is a new secret plane and that will
be all there is to it, and they will hush up the story, or
perhaps that we will finally get a definite answer to it.

I understand the United Press is checking on it out of New York
now with the Army, and also with the Navy, and we hope to have
some concrete answer before nightfall.  We certainly want to
thank you, Kenneth for coming into our studio.  We feel very
pleased that this news which is making nationwide news across
the country, we are able to give our listeners over KWRC a
first-hand report direct from you, of what you saw.  And we urge
our listeners to keep tuned to this station, because anytime
this afternoon or this evening, and we get something on it on
our United Press teletype, which is in direct communications
with new York, Chicago, Portland, in fact, every United Press
bureau across the nation, why, we'll have it on the air".

An audio file recording part of this historic testimony is also
on my web site.

Regarding assertions that Arnold would never conceivably have
described the objects as flying "like a saucer would if you
skipped it across the water"..

In Bruce Maccabee's detailed commentary 'The Complete Sighting
Report of Kenneth Arnold, with Comments and Analysis', also
available on my web site with Bruce's permission, Bruce notes
that Arnold later wrote in 'The Coming of the Saucers':

"They didn't fly like any aircraft I had ever seen before. In
the first place their echelon formation was backward from that
practiced by our Air Force. The elevation of the first craft was
greater than that of the last. They flew in a definite formation
but erratically. As I described them at the time their flight
was like speed boats on rough water or similar to the tail of a
Chinese kite that I once saw blowing in the wind. Or maybe it
would be best to describe their flight characteristics as very
similar to a formation of geese, in a rather diagonal chain-like
line, as if they were linked together. As I put it to newsmen in
Pendleton, Oregon, they flew like a saucer would if you skipped
it across the water".

Which seems to be Arnold's acknowledgement that he did indeed
attribute this exact characteristic to the objects.

'Saucer -shaped', alas, they were not.

Perhaps, as I'm sure you may concur, the most obvious question
is; realising that Arnold's pivotal 'UFO' sighting was in fact
of objects which "looked something like a pie plate that was
cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in the rear", and
these were indeed the genesis of what came to be called
'flying saucers'.. can anyone point us in the direction of a
comparative observation to what Kenneth Arnold actually
described?


James.





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   Mar > Mar 28

                         Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

From: Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research <iufor@frii.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:29:28 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:21:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples


>From: John Ratcliff <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:00:38 -0600

>>From: Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc <mbalien@tin.it>
>>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Michael Wolf's Samples
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:47:52 +0100

>>On 23 March, we received news of Sims's lab results carried out
>>on Michael Wolf's sample sent to Bill Hamilton. The report
>>states that the sample is only made out of pure silicon and and
>>no ET element.

>What an exciting discovery!!  I have only just now learned that
>silicon is not an ET element!!

>Wow!

>Hmmm..query?  What's an 'ET element'?


Well, John...

All of the known elements are ET elements.

Er... excepting Silicon, of course...

Regards,

Bob

--
    INSTITUTE FOR UFO RESEARCH
----------------------------------
Bob Thrift, Fort Collins, Colorado
    http://www.frii.com/~iufor/





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                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:11:28 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:26:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:26:34 -0500
>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

 >I will digress a little - word games being in question - into
>the character of Jesse Marcel Sr - Rudiak's hero, as I recall -
>and the curious defense made somewhere once by Kevin Randle of
>Marcel's unsavory collation of lies, fantasies and falsehoods
>about his military career. Marcel said he flew "as" a
>bombardier, co-pilot, and gunner in WW2. To any simple
>one-celled organism that means he sat in the appropriate seat
>and performed the appropriate actions. Randle maintained Marcel
>could fly - apparently, on combat missions - "as" any of those
>things without actually having to do the job. Bit tricky if you
>run into trouble, or have to drop the odd bomb, and I wouldn't
>trust a man in the air with a Browning .50MG who couldn't get a
>decent small-arms score on the range, but I suppose someone
>might be stupid enough to take the risk. Common sense would tell
>you Marcel was, um, exaggerating for the sake of effect, however
>- if he wasn't actually telling whoppers, which in the context
>seems rather likely.

Duke, Duke, Duke -

My point was, and still is, that Marcel could have flown in
those positions. He didn't say that he had done it in a combat
environment, but even so, he could have. In my experience as an
Army Aviator (and not as a 10 year old who sat in the right seat
of a bomber) we sometimes allowed the crew chief of door gunner
some "stick" on missions that had little chance of evolving into
a combat mission. Sometimes pilots flew as door gunners (part of
the reason was to assure themselves of meeting the requirement
to receive flight pay). So, it is wonderful what your "common
sense" tells you, but the reality of the situation is somewhat
different than you suggest.

I might also add that some of my helicopter pilot friends got
stick time in Air Force aircraft and we sometimes had Air Force
pilots flying with us. Flying an airplane is quite a bit
different than flying a helicopter.

The point, however, is that Marcel could have done that and be
telling the truth. BTW, what does firing a .50 cal. machine gun
have to do with a small arms score?

KRandle





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                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:00:35 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:28:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:26:34 -0500
>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>Has anyone seen a saucer that isn't round? This enquiring mind
>would like to know. Just for the record.

Clarice Cliffe

--
John Rimmer
www.magonia.demon.co.uk
Abandon hope all ye who press Enter here





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   Mar > Mar 28

                   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:38:44 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:30:19 -0500
Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:00:13 PST

>>From: Joe Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:12:42 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

>>Dear List:

>G'day Joe & List,

>>One thing bothered me about the original 1917 Western Front
>>"quotation".  The text mentions the presence of "Mr. Churchill",
>>obviously Winston S. Churchill at the scene.  Yet in September
>>1917, Churchill had left the War Cabinet, become a Colonel in
>>the British Army and taken command of a regiment in Belgium,
>>which he led through the battle of Passchendaele in November
>>1917.

>>Well, thanks to our sharp-eyed friend Gary Alevy, that's one
>>conundrum we don't have to worry about any more.  Lou F.
>>Lirpa...April F Uol backwards.  Good job, Gary!

>>Whoever concocted this hoax has a good working knowledge of the
>>UFO scene back in 1917 and some familiarity with the U.S. Army's
>>World War One 'Table Of Organization'.

>The only person I know of close to being _that_ old is James
>Bond Johnson . . .   ];-)

With friends like Leanne who needs enemies!

James Bond Johnson





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   Mar > Mar 28

                     Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:31:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:33:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 02:20:48 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy


>>From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@DC.SEFLIN.ORG>
>>To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
>>Subject: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:24:36 -0500

>>Via: Skywatch International Inc. <skywatch@ltlb.com>
>>From: Bill Hamilton [mailto:skywatcher22@hotmail.com]

>With all due respect, these Italian "analyses" do not make any
>sense at all. The percentages 99.9% and 0.01% DO NOT ADD UP so
>the alleged 0.01% of "ET isotope" or "unknown" is nonsensical
>and certainly does NOT confirm the "trustworthiness and
>credibility" of Wolf or "further increase the value of all his
>sayings" -- if he used the same erroneous 0.01% figure that is
>embarrassingly due to a failure of grade-school math.  There is
>no mention at all of WHAT alleged laboratory analyses were
>carried out to supposedly identify the "isotopes" (wrong
>terminology, there are only isotopes of the same element, but
>nuclides of differing elements).  What were the percentages of
>the different Si (silicon) isotopes Si 28, Si 29 and Si 30?
>Were they of normal naturally-occurring abundance?

Apparently you had not seen the corrected adendum to the figures
above posted by  the "Italin(s)."

He acknowledged that he had mistyped the figures.  They should
have been:  "99.99%" and "0.01%."

Other than that, I have nothing else to say regarding this
report.

REgards, Mike

 Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
 ICQ#:7508455
 BBS: (502) 683-3026
 Fax: (502) 686-7394
 Home: (502) 683-6811





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   Mar > Mar 28

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:34:28 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:00:28 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:38:39 +0000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>>>From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:24:07 EST
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

><snip>

>Is it just me, or does anyone else find this whole report and
>discussion absolutely ludicrous? What with this, and the
>extraterrestrial skeleton, both of which are a week or so too
>early for April Fool's Day, if I were more paranoid I might
>start talking about "disinformation" programmes to make
>ufologists look like barmpots!

>As if...


We think all information is appropriate to the research, John.
Which is why our researchers took the time and money to analyse
the Arnold photo, and the Bullwinkle Winkie.  But we are at a
loss on something you asked above.  Our top researchers are
drinking up all the Gripple trying to find out what the heck a
_Barmpot_ is?  Please, before they all become Grippaholics, tell
us.  We haven't a clue!!!






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   Mar > Mar 28

               Re: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest Update

From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:36:48 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:19:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest Update


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:59:07 EST
>To: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk, updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest Update From RPIT


Brad and All on UpDates,

>Dear Neil & List,

>What an outstanding simulation of the paper orientation of Ramey's
>Telegram! You've very precisely matched even the appearance of the
>telegram, as well as the position of the thumb and orientation of
>the folds, complete with the slight but insignificant curling up
>of the Upper Left Corner. However, your blank seal is jammed up to
>within about 1/4 inch of the left edge of the paper whereas the
>actual Ramey Telegram has a 1/2-inch margin clearly visible right
>into the Upper Left Corner which corner appears to be entirely
>BLANK. Your original positioning of the military "eagle seal"
>almost entirely MISSES the curled-up corner, so that it cannot
>possibly benefit from that corner's better angle facing the >camera,
>contrary to what you said.  And your experimental seal is larger,
>if 1.5 inches in diameter, than the approximately 1.2-inch seal on
>your original graphic.  All in all, though, an excellent job!


Regarding seals/stamps in use around that time by the military,
since the first experiment I've done some digging through the
100 or so documents I have of that time and checked our the
sizes of seals I've been able to find. They seem to group into 4
sizes from 1" and 1.25" used in document letterheads and more
interestingly 1 3/4" and 1 5/16" used in manual "stamp/seals" on
plain stationary to show their source and/or status. In the
attached demo I've shown the 1 3/4" size. Side by side with the
1 5/15" version and the original this seems the closest "fit",
but should anyone grumble at this point, try it yourself and
see.

>And thank you for proving my point! Your blank seal is oriented at
>about a 73 degree pitch or inclination angle to the camera almost
>exactly matching the actual Ramey Telegram with its approximately
>78-degree angle in that corner. Had the EAGLE SEAL been inside the
>empty circle it would have been painfuly obvious it DOES NOT MATCH
>your interpretation.

>So the next step is to duplicate the experiment but this time use
>the EAGLE SEAL and compare it with your original graphic
>illustration SIDE BY SIDE. It will not even be close, I can easily
>predict, because it will be ROTATED 30 DEGREES CLOCKWISE from what
>your interpret as an "eagle" on the Ramey Telegram, to say nothing
>of the grossly flattened distortion that will occur.

I've tried this, and all it tells me the placement of the "seal"
isn't quite right, if Errol will allow, I will forward this
image to the list also, you might note that MY seal also clearly
goes off the top of the page!. It just needs a slight crease in
the paper to give that impression.

>I expect that you will have to "fudge" the results by upturning the
>corner of the paper far more than the Ramey Telegram shows, in
>order to get an eagle that will even be recognizable.  Many will
>not be able or patient enough to see the difference in the amount
>or angle of the "upturning" of the corner of the simulated
>telegram.

Nope.

>You have not addressed the fact your original positioning of the
>military eagle seal went right OFF THE PAPER by about 0.5 inch at
>the top, which is absurd.

See above, it's all done with folds/curves in the paper.

>Lastly, using the math you are so dubious about,

I have great respect for mathamatical modeling, the guy's I work
with in the research group work hand in fist with some of the
finest mathamaticians in the world today, but they too can tell
you, as their real world physical experiments show the maths
dosn't always get it right. In our case the findings "outside
the model" get fed back to the theorists who slam their office
doors and go back to reworking the model till they come back
with "now try this and see if you get that". Sometimes they do,
then again quite more often than you would think, they don't.

>I can compensate
>for the 78-degree slant of the paper in the region of text from
>about 1/2-inch to 1 inch inward from the left edge in the Upper
>Left Corner.  This is where a "seal" should go.  But what I find
>instead is TEXT instead of a SEAL, with a top margin of
>approximately 0.7 inch and as mentioned before a left margin of
>about 0.5 inch.


I think there may be no "should go" involved here, _if_ this is
a manually placed "stamp" it could go anywhere within reason
_plus_ in most of the instances in the documents I have they are
not placed squarly on the page, typical manual/hand stamping,
bang it down anywhere.

A further point about the message and it's stationary, many
people refer to this as a teletype or wire message, I don't
think this is likly as if you look closely at the 2nd line of
the message and the phrase "CONVAY ON TO THE" (note spelling of
convay) there is an indication that the end of the word CONVAY
and the area of ON has been subject to alteration and also the
following word TO is displaced _below_ the rest of the line of
text. This to me indicates that the message was manually typed
and needed corecting and was possibly wound up out of the
typewriter while this was done before being wound back and the
message continued possibly with a further line feed correction
for the word THE at the end of line 2. It's only a small point
_but_ this type of correction is impossible on a teletype
machine.

My own thoughts go back to it being a "radio signal", in the
UK's forces case, these were received manually and written out
manually, usually in code blocks which required they went
through the crypto unit who decoded the hand written code and
"typed" them up ready for their destination. I can only
speculate that the US forces used the same type of procedure I
know the Canadians did as my source of this info, an uncle,
worked as a RAF radio op through Europe in 1944/45 attached to
Canadian Forces HQ.

The fact that the paper seems to be so lightweight beggers the
thought that it would support a grand letterhead sporting a
"seal", more likly just some general standardised stationary it
would therfore require something like a "manual" seal adding to
indicate it's source, the examples I have do just that function.


>As for what I said about the Univ of Texas, I had said that what
>they offered was "inadequate and prohibitive in cost."  You didn't
>address the cost issue at all.  They told me they couldn't or
>wouldn't vary the contrast or exposure on the prints without
>invoking an extremely expensive special-order price.  I was
>unwilling to risk the time and didn't have the money for an
>experiment of such uncertain outcome.

My 4 prints (11x14) cost $88 including special shipping to the UK.
I'm extreamly happy with them _and_ the service I had from UTA,
nice helpfull people.

>I reiterate that digital
>scans do not pick up all of the fine detail registered in the film.
>Imaging the film grains is not the same thing as recording the
>exact film density quality registered by the grains, partly because
>digitizing tends to increase the contrast of each grain rather than
>representing the fuzzy shadowing of the actual grain image.


Are you trying to get at the fact the emulsion is a _layer_
which has a depth, the grains within this layer giving an
overall _density_ which can only really be reproduced when the
negative is viewed _transmissively_, ie the light passing
through it as opposed to a scan which tends to pick up surface
features?.

There could be some milage in this idea, but I'm sure the prints
from the negs capture this after all the printing is a
transmissive/additive process.

Checking sample areas from Stantons raw neg scans, there are
subtle but subjective differences of clarity in the prints, the
prints _do_ capture this subtlety and it seems to be transfered
to the digitised medium.

Neil.



-------------------------------------------------------





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   Mar > Mar 28

               Re: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest Update

From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:44:59 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:05:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest Update


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:59:07 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest Update From RPIT


Brad and UpDates,

The comparison image as promised, it's a bit rough but the
webcam is only 320x200 flat out.

Neil.

<snip>

>So the next step is to duplicate the experiment but this time use
>the EAGLE SEAL and compare it with your original graphic
>illustration SIDE BY SIDE. It will not even be close, I can easily
>predict, because it will be ROTATED 30 DEGREES CLOCKWISE from what
>your interpret as an "eagle" on the Ramey Telegram, to say nothing
>of the grossly flattened distortion that will occur.

I've tried this, and all it tells me the placement of the "seal"
isn't quite right, if Errol will allow I will forward this image
to the list also, you might note that _my_ seal also clearly goes
off the top of the page!. It just needs a slight crease in the
paper to give that impression.



-------------------------------------------------------
                     Neil Morris@Home.

Email:             Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk
Web Site:
                  http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/





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   Mar > Mar 28

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Jean-Luc Rivera <JLRIV1@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:50:47 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:09:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:13:18 -0500
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>Regarding:

>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:26:34 -0500
>>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Peter,

>Noting that this is a new location for my web site:

>http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/

>Under the topic, "The Flying Saucer Genesis", there remains the
>following feature:

>First Radio Interview with Kenneth Arnold; 25 June 1947

>By John Powell

>The following is thought to be (considered to be) the first
>public interview Kenneth Arnold gave regarding his sighting.
>Thanks go to Mike Christol for providing the audiotape. JP.

<snip>

James,

For the record our original thanks for uncovering this interview
must go to Pierre Lagrange who did an extensive investigation of
Kenneth Arnold sighting. If memory serves he found the recording
of the interview around 1987 and shared it by giving audio





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   Mar > Mar 28

                         Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:51:00 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:17:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:29:28 -0700
>From: Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research <iufor@frii.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

>>From: John Ratcliff <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples
>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:00:38 -0600

>>What an exciting discovery!!  I have only just now learned
>>that silicon is not an ET element!!

>>Hmmm..query?  What's an 'ET element'?

>All of the known elements are ET elements.

I have a question. This is to everyone, not just above.

Hypothetically if we are dealing with an intelligence that is
perhaps, lets say even 50 years ahead of us, why would they be
using silicon? To my layman knowledge, I thought that it is a
given that due  to the limitations of silicon (laws of physics)
that even we today are looking toward new possibilities in
technology (DNA, Protein Based,etc). Silicon in 20 years will a
thing of the past. My child who works Microsoft was talking DNA
computers almost 10 years ago.

So if we are trying to vision what possibilities could exist
with something ahead of us, I would think it would make more
sense to talk about living organisms placed in our body to track
us (if that is what they wanted to do), or microscopic robotics,
or holograms. Heck, they don't even have to be physically here,
they could just be visiting via the mind. I mean everyone has
watched The Discovery Science channel to see how close we are to
minature technology.

I think we need to use more imagination when talking about
aliens.  How about taming bacteria, like it was a pet and
sending it off to do some work. I don't know...I'm rather joking
here but cannot grasp some of the stories coming out about alien
technologies. It just seems too 90s!

Just my opinion......

Kathleen  Andersen
MUFON State Section Director





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   Mar > Mar 28

                   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

From: Joaquim Fernandes <j.fernan@esoterica.pt>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:13:53 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:24:36 -0500
Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France


>Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:52:49 -0800
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

>>From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
>>Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:16:14 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

>>It appears that September/October 1917 was a heavy UFO flap
>>period. In addition to the reported sighting by a balloon
>>observer in France, you had the following three incidents:

>>(1) September 7, 1917: Daylight "wagon wheel" observed by
>>Presbyterian minister and family in Salida, Colorado.

>>(2) October 1, 1917: Silver disc seen by a teenaged boy walking
>>along the railroad tracks in Youngstown, Ohio.

>>(3) October 1917: Disappearance of France's top-scoring air ace,
>>Rene Fonck, over Ypres, Belgium. Rene's Nieuport 17-C fighter
>>biplane was seen flying into a large cumulous cloud. It never
>>came out!

>>Does anybody have any more UFO incidents from this period?


>I would add the 13SEPT1917 sighting in Fatima, Portugal; widely
>seen as a religious miracle. 50,000 observers assembled to watch
>the 2nd or 3rd predicted apparition of the "Blessed Virgin".

>Whether the BVM showed up or not I cannot say. The crowd _did_
>see a a rotating opalescent ovoid, saucer or disk depending on
>who is describing it.

>The 3 children who started all this claimed to see some silver
>suited entity with or holding a silver globe of some kind.

>One source is The Flying Saucer Vision, by John Mitchell, page
>95. Publishing details on request.


Related the Fatima's solar phenomenon, it was not the 13th
September but the 13th October 1917. Some people described a
"silver plate disc" descending above their heads and producing
heat and drying of the their wet clothes. In 1982 with Dr. Fina
d'Armada we published a 460 pages book, by Bertrand Editorial,
Lisbon, and there we collected and quoted the vast amount of
books, testimony and press reports from that time. Its name:
"The Fatima Apparitions and the UFO Phenomena".

We worked with the original files at the Fatima archives from
the firts time until then and our resaerch achieve to make a
sistematic study of all psycho-physiological and physics aspects
of the Fatima's Apparitions behond its religious impact. The
book was a hit in a catholic country as Portugal, but the
foreign editors seemd doesn't know the portuguese language...
The original editions are sold out but there is a short version
at Editorial Estampa, Lisbon. The "solar phenomenon" was
researched by us according 100 first hands witness and their
position at the spot in 13th October. Our data was controled and
discuss with scientists as the astrophysic Jean-Pierre Petit,
from the CRNS, France, and physics James Campbell, author of
"Ufology", and it fits with a phenomenon where microwaves could
make the same effects. We can say anymore.

Only that I hope read in the future, that is news sources and
academics views than those third and fourth hands books we have
been read about the Fatima subject which have nothing new to
say.

Nowadays I am researching for my PhD thesis on the UFO subject
related the portuguese press coverage of the matter from the UFO
era and all the media cultures aspects there. I am all yours if
my help is usefull.

Best regards,

Joaquim Fernandes
University Fernando Pessoa,
Porto - Portugal






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   Mar > Mar 28

                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:16:28 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:27:31 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:38:39 +0000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>Is it just me, or does anyone else find this whole report and
>discussion absolutely ludicrous? What with this, and the
>extraterrestrial skeleton, both of which are a week or so too
>early for April Fool's Day, if I were more paranoid I might
>start talking about "disinformation" programmes to make
>ufologists look like barmpots!

I can assure you John that is not a disinformation story.
Something real happened to ordinary people. It has no logical
explaination that I can think of other than someone (like us)
has a flying device and that they are picking up elk. Now how
credible does that sound? There is no doubt that it was not a
helicopter or other forestry aircraft.

I am a person who probably leans on the skeptic side  more than
the believer side. And I can't seem to find any answers on this
one. There is another little catch to this story. Last year we
received a report from a fisherman on a lake near Mt. Adams. He
described and drew a picture of a craft he saw above the lake. I
am the only person who has this drawing. No one else has seen
it.

If my fellow investigator Robert Fairfax (an artist) gets a
drawing of the craft that these 14 people saw and it remotely
looks the same, how would you feel about the story then? Mt.
Adams and Mt. St. Helens are very close. What would be the
logical conclusion?

To: GT McCoy:

Not sure the theory of starving elk. It doesn't get that cold
here where the elk are. They stay on the lower elevation.
Washington state gets snow in the high mountain tops but stays
fairly moderate for the  most part. The snow level is going
higher this time of year, not lower. If it was going to freeze
or starve it would have done so last fall/mid winter when the
major snow fall occurs. We are getting into spring here. It
could have died in a number of ways I agree. It was pregnant. It
could have a logical explaination.


Kathleen Andersen





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                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:45:32 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:21:43 -0500
Subject: Re:  NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:34:28 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:38:39 +0000
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>><snip>

>>Is it just me, or does anyone else find this whole report and
>>discussion absolutely ludicrous? What with this, and the
>>extraterrestrial skeleton, both of which are a week or so too
>>early for April Fool's Day, if I were more paranoid I might
>>start talking about "disinformation" programmes to make
>>ufologists look like barmpots!

>>As if...

>We think all information is appropriate to the research, John.
>Which is why our researchers took the time and money to analyse
>the Arnold photo, and the Bullwinkle Winkie.  But we are at a
>loss on something you asked above.  Our top researchers are
>drinking up all the Gripple trying to find out what the heck a
>_Barmpot_ is?  Please, before they all become Grippaholics, tell
>us.  We haven't a clue!!!


Well it would take an awful lot of gripple (I prefer Young's
Special or Theakston's Old Peculier) to make me want to tangle
with Bullwinkle's winkie, but barmpots are something that
everyone in ufology needs to beware of. They are small, furry
animals of limited intellect, who huddle round in little groups
and believe anything anyone tells them about UFOs and aliens.
Their names are.... oh well, I guess you can work that out for
yourself.

Love from barmy old Britain

--
John Rimmer
www.magonia.demon.co.uk
Abandon hope all ye who press Enter here





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                Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:45:32 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:21:43 -0500
Subject: Re:  NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State


>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:34:28 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:38:39 +0000
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>>Subject: Re: NUFORC: Elk Abduction in Washington State

>><snip>

>>Is it just me, or does anyone else find this whole report and
>>discussion absolutely ludicrous? What with this, and the
>>extraterrestrial skeleton, both of which are a week or so too
>>early for April Fool's Day, if I were more paranoid I might
>>start talking about "disinformation" programmes to make
>>ufologists look like barmpots!

>>As if...

>We think all information is appropriate to the research, John.
>Which is why our researchers took the time and money to analyse
>the Arnold photo, and the Bullwinkle Winkie.  But we are at a
>loss on something you asked above.  Our top researchers are
>drinking up all the Gripple trying to find out what the heck a
>_Barmpot_ is?  Please, before they all become Grippaholics, tell
>us.  We haven't a clue!!!


Well it would take an awful lot of gripple (I prefer Young's
Special or Theakston's Old Peculier) to make me want to tangle
with Bullwinkle's winkie, but barmpots are something that
everyone in ufology needs to beware of. They are small, furry
animals of limited intellect, who huddle round in little groups
and believe anything anyone tells them about UFOs and aliens.
Their names are.... oh well, I guess you can work that out for
yourself.

Love from barmy old Britain

--
John Rimmer
www.magonia.demon.co.uk





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   Mar > Mar 28

              Accident At Gesundt's UFO Research - Group Needs

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:58:06 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:29:17 -0500
Subject: Accident At Gesundt's UFO Research - Group Needs


Hello, we are sorry to inform you of a serious accident which
occured early this afternoon, at Gesundt's UFO Research and
Discount House of Freshly Made Wine, Cheese and Publishing...

Whilst (we love our Aussie brothers and sisters...) whilst (and
we also love our British speaking brothers and sisters) ... so,
whilst eating our Old Fashioned Grits flavored with Cherry Jello
and Marjorin (we're on diets), some was accidently dropped on
our Radio Shack 1000TX computer.  This workhorse has been with
Dr. Gesundt since 1985 and boy does he miss it.   The grits
insinuated themselves between the keys and got all over the
framous.  It's a mess.

Our engineers and process people all took turns blowing into the
keyboard (we can't afford that office duster spray stuff) but
none of them have any wind left after breathing in the Gripple
Vapors (vapours.. we love our British friends, especially the
ones with money).

And we were wondering, well, as long as people donated money to
Autralian crash retrieval and as long as people are donating
tons of money to Tim, since we were told he wasn't making any
dough on his last book, and well, people are donating money to
some really strange UFO activities, well, we sorta hoped that
maybe, we might ask you for some money for a new computer.

Ever since this Yugoslavian thing started up and the Eskimo
people stopped buying Gripple and the Aliens started banning it
on most of their saucers, even those flying triangle thingies,
well, sales have been a little off, eh?

So how's about (how's aboot, we love our Canadian friends...
specially them radio personalities with all the bread) a little
donation for _our_ cause (sorry, Peter).  We prefer that you
send us money, of course. Money goes much farther along than
your used equipment. We can buy what we like... uh, what we
need, with the money.

So please, your generosity is ponderously requested... send cash
(please, no checks, they are traceable... and no money orders,
they too are traceable... didn't know that did you?) send cash
to the following address:

FCHFBCW
First Church of the Holy Font Baptismal Car Wash (Our cover org.)
Post Office Box, Give 'Till it Hurts
C/O
Canal Street UFOlogical Society
Canal Street, NY, USA

All donations over $100 will be appreciated with a free car wash
at any of our many FCHFBCW locations near you.  And while you're
there, turn on your radios, put your hands _on_ your radios, and
feel the power of Gripple come thru the speakers.






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   Mar > Mar 28

             'Strange Days... Indeed' Tonight: Dr. David Jacobs

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:30:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:30:43 -0500
Subject: 'Strange Days... Indeed' Tonight: Dr. David Jacobs




From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

On 'Strange Days... Indeed' tonight, Dr. David Jacobs

Join co-host Jonn Kares and I on 'Strange Days...Indeed' as we
discuss David's take on abductions, the release of the paperback
edition of 'The Threat' and the upcoming April 10th 'UFO Abduction
Conference - What We Know And How We Know It' in New York.

The program starts at 11:00pm EST on

1010 CFRB AM - 50,000 watts 'Clear-Channel'

6070khz Shortwave

and you can listen via your RealPlayer at:

www.cfrb.com/cfrb.ram


To call the program 'live', dial:

On-Air    416-872-1010
          1-800-561-CFRB [all over North America]
          *TALK [local mobiles]


ebk





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   Mar > Mar 30

                                Housekeeping

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:24:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:24:30 -0500
Subject: Housekeeping

The UpDates re-location is almost complete.....

The new office awaits the arrival of this machine and the
desk that it lives on.

With any luck, UpDates should start flowing again by O5:00 GMT
[Midnight Eastern].

And yes, Jacqui & John you _are_ both still subscribed <VBG>


ebk