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   Apr

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Apr 1999

  Apr 1:

   Housekeeping - UFO UpDates - Toronto [11]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Brad Sparks [54]
   Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX - Robert A.M. Stephens [50]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples - Larry Hatch [30]
   'U.S. Military UFO Cover-Up Foiled' In Australia? - Tim D. Brigham [61]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples - Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research
   [34]
   Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Joe Murgia [308]
   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France - Leanne Martin [5]
   Re: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest - Leanne Martin [9]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description - David Rudiak [194]
   Australia Wide Skywatch 27-03-99 - Report - Diane Harrison [65]
   Re: MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating - Jesus Millan Arias
   [11]
   Re: 'Alien' Skeleton In MUFON Journal - Jimmie L. Holman [105]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 13 - by way of John Hayes [504]
   The Millennium Report - March 29, 1999 - Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada
   [73]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Bruce Maccabee [20]
   Italian Science Writer wins Keyhoe Journalism Award - Steven W. Kaeser
   [10]
   Re: Crop Circle Studies? - Roy Hale [17]
   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France - David Clarke [53]
   Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine? - David Clarke [12]
   Re: MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating - Jan Aldrich [40]
   BAR 199903 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [248]
   Re: Accident At Gesundt's UFO Research - Group - Sean Jones [12]
   Re: Sighting in Sao Paulo - Thiago Ticchetti [33]
   Famous Siberian Actress/Model Saw Aliens - Max Burns [15]
   Blather: Fiery Sky - Daev Walsh - Blather [156]
   Gesundt and Gripple, The Rest, Of The Story! - Jim Mortellaro [103]
   Sprites and UFOs - Nick Balaskas [92]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy - Edoardo Russo [108]
   Firmage: Anti-Gravity Craft And Alien Contact - Ignatius Graffeo [317]
   Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead? - Edoardo Russo [46]
   Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX - John Majhor [13]
   Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX - Kim Burrafato [16]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Mark Cashman [80]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples - Mark Cashman [61]
   Correction On High Speed Radar Case URL - Mark Cashman [9]
   Re: 'U.S. Military UFO Cover-Up Foiled' In - Larry Hatch [13]
   Current UFOR List Group - Francisco Lopez [16]
   Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12 - "Bill Hamilton" [244]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description - Karl Pflock [5]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Scott LeGrand [7]
   Deployed Antenna Sending Streams Of New Mars Images -
   NASANews@hq.nasa.gov [77]
   Sightings, Sudbury, Ontario - 03-99 - Michel M. Deschamps [91]

  Apr 2:

   Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX - Don Allen [10]
   Re: - John Majhor [12]
   Bell's Site 'Hack Hoax' Draws Backlash - UFO UpDates - Toronto [169]
   Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12 - Kevin Randle [189]
   Re: Deployed Antenna Sending New Mars Images - Luis Eduardo Pacheco [9]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Serge Salvaille [16]
   Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX - Royce J. Myers III [8]
   Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine? - Larry Hatch [4]
   Part 1: MJ-12 SOM 1-01 [was Robert Todd on MJ-12] - Jan Aldrich [84]
   UFO UpDate: Part 2: MJ-12 SOM 1-01 [was Robert - Jan Aldrich [103]
   Brisbane, Australia Sighting Report 03-04-99 - Diane Harrison [42]
   Project SIGN Research Center - URL - Wendy Connors [7]
   Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX - John Majhor [43]
   Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX - Robert A.M. Stephens [13]
   UK Sightings Statistics? - Neil Doyle [3]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - John Rimmer [27]
   =?iso-8859-1?Q?UFO_UpDate:_More_Strange_Lights_Over_It=FA,_?= - Thiago
   Ticchetti [48]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Mark Cashman [47]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Mark Cashman [15]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Jim Mortellaro [16]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples - Bruce Maccabee [9]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Filer's Files #13 - George A. Filer [387]
   ...And Now For Something Completely Different - Alfred Lehmberg [30]

  Apr 3:

   *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *** 4-2-99 - Rense E-News [239]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Jerome Clark [44]
   Chat with Dr. Roger Leir - Diana Botsford [110]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description - James Easton [187]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Bruce Maccabee [97]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #297 - Alfred Lehmberg [142]

  Apr 4:

   UFO*BC Updates - David Pengilly - UFO*BC [26]
   The Nine Planets - Website - Steven L. Wilson, Sr [6]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Brad Sparks [88]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions - Brad Sparks [25]
   Re: - Bruce Maccabee [11]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description - Bruce Maccabee [10]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Peter Brookesmith Mendoza [94]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Brad Sparks [98]
   Re: Arnold's La Grande Adventure - GT McCoy [27]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy - Gildas Bourdais [67]
   'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: John Velez - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [15]

  Apr 5:

   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Brad Sparks [167]
   Re: Arnold's La Grande Adventure - Jim Mortellaro [7]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Jerome Clark [63]
   Re: Kraus vs. Friedman - David Rudiak [24]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Bruce Maccabee [7]
   Changes at The Temporal Doorway - Mark Cashman [23]
   BWW Media Alert 19990404 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [160]
   Ultra Secret US 'National Intelligence Service' - Stig Agermose [166]
   Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *** 4-2-99 - YourName [Josh Goldstein]
   [14]
   Re: - Kenny Young [90]
   Address Book Loss - Philip Mantle [10]
   Re: UFO*BC Updates - Yourname [Josh Goldstein] [41]
   'United States Space Foundation'? - Bob Shell [2]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Mark Cashman [138]
   What's New at Magonia - Mark Pilkington [15]
   Magonia Monthly Supplement 13 - Mark Pilkington [362]
   Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *** 4-2-99 - Jim Mortellaro [5]
   Re: UFO*BC Updates - Steven Kaeser [18]
   Re: Kraus vs. Friedman - Greg Sandow [34]
   UFOs Reported - Unionville, Michigan - 03-16-99 - Kenny Young [90]
   Re: 'United States Space Foundation'? - Kim Burrafato [8]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 14 - Joseph Trainor [514]
   Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *** 4-2-99 - John Velez [24]
   Re: 'United States Space Foundation'? - Matt Little [113]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - John Rimmer [51]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - John Rimmer [30]

  Apr 6:

   Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *** 4-2-99 - Jeff Rense [9]
   Re: Kraus vs. Friedman - Dennis Stacy [59]
   Behold - Robert A.M. Stephens [14]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Serge Salvaille [61]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Mark Cashman [127]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Greg Sandow [57]
   Re: Behold - Royce J. Myers III [11]
   Re: Ultra Secret US 'National Intelligence - Larry Hatch [33]
   Re: Kraus vs. Friedman - Greg St. Pierre [15]
   Wycliffe Well, Oz, UFO Stop Over - Diane Harrison [65]
   Re: UFO*BC Updates - Steven Kaeser [9]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Jerome Clark [97]
   Re: Kraus vs. Friedman - Greg Sandow [73]
   BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore! - Mike Wootten [155]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Mark Cashman [28]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Stan Friedman [37]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy - Nick Balaskas [35]
   Re: Behold - Don Allen [11]
   Sighting Report Alice Springs - 03-06-99 - Diane Harrison [32]
   What Is Strange - Don Allen [94]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description - Brad Sparks [73]
   Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion - Kim Burrafato [30]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - David Rudiak [62]
   Krauss' Faulty Physics [was: Friedman vs. Krauss - David Rudiak [208]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Peter Brookesmith Mendoza [88]
   Hoax Site - Drew Williamson [5]

  Apr 7:

   Re: - James Easton [852]
   Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts... - Nick Balaskas [61]
   MUFON To Secure UFO Hearings Vote On US State - Stephen G. Bassett [18]
   'The Village Voice' On NY Abduction Conference - Stig Agermose [132]
   MIG-29 Footage (KGB-UFO-Files) - Roy Hale [30]
   The Bentwaters and Woodbridge Incidents - James Easton [852]
   Arthur Koestler On USAF's 'Condon' Cover-Up - Stig Agermose [130]
   ETH And ORH [was: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate] - Kim Burrafato [21]
   Security Cleared Witnesses [was: UFO*BC Updates] - YourName - Josh
   Goldstein [16]
   RAMS - Bell Admits 'Porno Rap'? - Robert A.M. Stephens [28]
   Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion - Terry Blanton [36]
   Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion - Robert A.M. Stephens
   [20]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Jerome Clark [39]
   Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Brian Straight [122]
   Re: MIG-29 Footage (KGB-UFO-Files) - Luis Eduardo Pacheco [20]
   Social Resistance To Unconventional Wisdom - Terry Blanton [127]
   Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion - Kim Burrafato [18]
   Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics - Jim Deardorff [8]
   Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion - Terry Blanton [10]
   Re: Security Cleared Witnesses - Stan Friedman [14]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Kim Burrafato [22]
   Re: RAMS - Bell Admits 'Porno Rap'? - Alfred Lehmberg [26]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Donald Ledger [10]
   Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore! - Max Burns [158]
   Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion - Skye Turell [7]
   Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics - David Rudiak [83]
   Re: Bell Admits 'Porno Rap'? - Jeff Rense [8]

  Apr 8:

   Re: Social Resistance To Unconventional Wisdom - "Leanne Martin" [6]
   'The Times of India' On Ancient Aerial Craft - Stig Agermose [68]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description - Bruce Maccabee [13]
   Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics - Bruce Maccabee [121]
   Re: Hoax Site - Bruce Maccabee [1]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Bruce Maccabee [428]
   Re: Moon Rotation [was: Silver Veils, - Greg St. Pierre [21]
   Re: Moon Rotation [was: Silver Veils, - Brian Cuthbertson [19]
   Re: ETH And ORH - Roy Hale [29]
   Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion - Greg Sandow [10]
   Re: Moon Rotation - David Rudiak [29]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - GT McCoy [30]
   Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics - Jim Deardorff [17]
   Re: Moon Rotation - Larry Hatch [14]
   Re: Moon Rotation - Terry Blanton [28]
   Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore! - Rory Lushman [129]
   Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion - Robert A.M. Stephens
   [32]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Brian Straight [8]
   Re: Moon Rotation - Brian Straight [8]
   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description - Mark Cashman [45]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Mark Cashman [57]
   Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics - Mark Cashman [18]
   Re: Social Resistance To Unconventional Wisdom - Terry Blanton [5]
   Re: Moon Rotation - Skye Turell [13]
   Re: Moon Rotation - Henny van der Pluijm [13]
   Re: Moon Rotation - Roger R. Prokic [9]
   Re: ETH And ORH - Rory Lushman [18]
   Re: Moon Rotation - Skye Turell [10]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Donald Ledger [6]

  Apr 9:

   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Donald . Ledger [6]
   Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion - Robert A.M. Stephens
   [14]
   Scots UFO Reports & Video Updates - Dave Ledger [315]
   Re: Moon Rotation - Bruce Maccabee [9]
   Re: Moon Rotation - Dennis Stacy [4]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Sean Jones [15]
   Re: Moon Rotation - David Rudiak [5]
   Re: Moon Rotation - Bob Young [54]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - David Rudiak [22]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Mark Cashman [18]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Bob Young [21]
   Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics - David Rudiak [90]
   Re: Moon Rotation - Brian Cuthbertson [9]
   Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion - Terry Blanton [35]
   Re: Moon Rotation - Terry Blanton [10]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Sean Jones [6]
   Re: Update from RPIT - Bob Shell [7]
   Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead? - Bob Shell [6]

  Apr 10:

   Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description - Brad Sparks [27]
   Re: Moon Rotation - YourName - Josh Goldstein [23]
   Re: Update from RPIT - YourName - Josh Goldstein [16]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy - Joaquim Fernandes [38]
   Re: ETH And ORH - Roy Hale [9]
   Ubatuba [was: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy] - Gildas Bourdais [36]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Thiago Ticchetti [21]
   Max Burns BUFORA Lecture - Stephen Gamble [38]
   Filer's Files #14 - George A. Filer [375]
   Max Burns And The So-called "Sheffield Incident" - David Clarke [130]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Mendoza [68]
   The Ladybower 'Tornado Pilot' (Sheffield Incident) - Robert Moore [149]
   Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore! - Max Burns [168]
   Re: Earth's Other Moon - Nick Balaskas [24]
   Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion - Greg Sandow [33]
   * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-9-99 - Rense E-News [260]
   Deborah Lindemann of CNI News On Compuserve UFO - Eldon Garlock [69]
   Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore! - Ralf Zeigermann [11]
   Re: Max Burns BUFORA Lecture - Andy Roberts [89]
   Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion - Larry Hatch [13]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #298 - Alfred Lehmberg [76]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Donald Ledger [11]
   Re: Earth's Other Moon - Larry Hatch [15]
   UFORBRazil & UFORMilitary Added To UFOR List Group - Francisco Lopez
   [14]
   [canufo] New Historical Case from the Yukon - Martin Jasek [9]
   UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs ::: - Francisco Lopez [230]
   Quantum Entaglemment..... - Roy Hale [90]
   Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs? - Bruce Maccabee [8]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Brad Sparks [104]
   UFO Repetitions - Jacques Poulet [14]
   EarthLights Site w/Webcam? - Stephen Miles Lewis [14]
   Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore! - Sean Jones [11]
   Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore! - Ralf Zeigermann [10]
   Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate - Peter Brookesmith Mendoza [87]

  Apr 11:

   Non-UK/USA UFO Magazines? - Philip Mantle - UFO [4]
   Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs ::: - Dennis Stacy [19]
   Re: EarthLights Site w/Webcam - Brian Cuthbertson [3]
   Re: IF Conference In NY 04-10-99 - A Velez Report - John Velez [62]
   Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs ::: - John Alexander [22]
   Yet Another Face On Mars - Keith Woodard [4]
   Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy - Gildas Bourdais [6]
   BWW Media Alert 19990411 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [166]
   Re: Non-UK/USA UFO Magazines? - John Hayes [10]
   Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs ::: - John Alexander [28]
   'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: Michel M. - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [15]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #298 - Michael Christol [42]

  Apr 12:

   Re: UFO Community On MSN Highlights MUFON - Diana Botsford [68]
   QUEST MagazineQUEST Magazine - Philip Mantle - QUEST [8]
   AUFORN: Meeting 16th April 1999 - Diane Harrison [24]
   Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs ::: - Joe Murgia [34]
   Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference - Jim Mortellaro [21]
   The Millennium Report - April 12, 1999 - Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada
   [72]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 15 - Masinaigan@aol.com [130]
   Crop 'Circlers' - John Hayes [24]
   Re: EarthLights Site w/Webcam - David Clarke [4]
   CPR-Canada News - April 12, 1999 - Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada [53]
   Re: Kraus vs. Friedman - Pat McCartney [24]

  Apr 13:

   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 15 [Full Version] - Masinaigan@aol.com
   [391]
   Re: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference - John Velez [24]
   Re: Crop 'Circlers' - GT McCoy [14]
   Blather: Foolishness and Codology - Blather - Daev Walsh [312]
   Re: ETH And ORH - Tony Spurrier [9]
   Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead? - Edoardo Russo [16]
   Re: HOT GOSSIP UK - April '99 - Gerogina Bruni [273]
   Re: HOT GOSSIP UK - April '99 - Gerogina Bruni [273]
   Re: Aliens Among Us - And Other Thoughts... - Gildas Bourdais [10]
   Behold - Again - Robert A.M. Stephens [18]
   Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts... - Gildas Bourdais [10]
   HOT GOSSIP UK - April '99 - Gerogina Bruni [273]
   Re: Crop 'Circlers' - Sean Jones [19]
   Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead? - Bob Shell [4]
   Re: Behold - Again - Brian Cuthbertson [21]

  Apr 14:

   Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts... - Nick Balaskas [30]
   Astonishing UFO .MPG Video Clip - Kim Burrafato [28]
   NASA Leonid Balloon Snagged Some Far-Out Meteoroids - Stig Agermose
   [51]
   Re: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference - Lawrie Williams
   [11]
   Re: Blather: Foolishness and Codology - Leanne Martin [7]
   UFO Reported To Fremont [Ohio] Police - 4-11-99 - Kenny Young [26]
   New UFO Footage Posted - Dave Ledger [41]
   Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts... - John Velez [19]
   Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead? - Bruce Maccabee [7]
   Re: Behold - Again - Scott Hale [29]
   Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand? - Jenny Randles [80]
   Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead? - Edoardo Russo [14]
   Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts... - Greg Sandow [14]
   Re: Behold - Again - Steven Kaeser [7]
   Re: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference - John Velez [19]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A - Brian Straight [32]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A - Jim Mortellaro [98]
   Open Letter - Geri DeStefano & Alfred Webre [136]
   Response from Dr. Helmut Lammer (Re: MILAB) - Francisco Lopez [32]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take a - Chris Rutkowski [44]
   Tales of Abduction - IF Conference - A Press - Jeff Westover [53]
   Re: EarthLights Site w/Webcam - Stephen Lewis [6]
   Swinging Pendulum Object Reported In Pennsylvania - Stan Gordon [38]
   Aliens Among Us - WWN Images - Larry Hatch [15]
   MAGONIA Monthly Supplement No. 14 April 1999 - Mark Pilkington [485]
   ELFIS UpDate - Stephen Lewis [68]
   Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts... - Nick Balaskas [29]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A - John Rimmer [15]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A - Jacques Poulet [13]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A - Mark Cashman [41]

  Apr 15:

   Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A - Jim Mortellaro [20]
   Re: Open Letter - Greg Sandow [6]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A - Greg Sandow [202]
   Re: Swinging Pendulum Object Reported In - Jim Deardorff [13]
   Re: NASA Leonid Balloon Snagged Some Far-Out - YourName - Josh
   Goldstein [8]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A - Sharon Kardol [24]
   Re: Open Letter - YourName - Josh Goldstein [40]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A - Edoardo Russo [43]
   Sighting Reports From New Zealand? - Diane Harrison [14]
   'New Solar System Discovered' - James Easton [24]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A - John Velez [61]
   P-1947 - Cuban Ufology? - Greg Sandow [7]
   Multiple Planets Found Around A Sun-Like Star - Stig Agermose [138]
   A Plea For Help... - Jeff Westover [25]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...? - Jacques Poulet [15]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...? - Jim Deardorff [28]

  Apr 16:

   Re: Swinging Pendulum Object Reported - Bob Young [10]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...? - John Velez [23]
   'Wired News' On 1999 NY UFO Abduction Conference - Stig Agermose [99]
   Mortellaro Follows Up On Abduction Conference - Stig Agermose [35]
   Bletchman, Bryant, Bassett & Ballot Initiative - - Stephen G. Bassett
   [18]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...? - Rose Hargrove [38]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...? - Jenny Randles [134]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...? - Greg Sandow [38]
   Filer's Files #15 - George A. Filer [408]
   Earth Changes TV: NASA's Flying Disc - Mitch Battros [39]

  Apr 17:

   Lecture 05-01-99 Michigan - John E.L. Tenney [14]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #299 - Alfred Lehmberg [95]
   Possible UFO Landing Near Blind River, Ontario - Michel M. Deschamps
   [38]
   Orlando Newspapers? - Philip Mantle - QUEST [6]
   SNET: Armen Victorian on John Alexander's MILABS - Don Allen [87]
   Secret Weapon from 1947...? - Kenny Young [78]

  Apr 18:

   BUFORA Watch - Journal Editor Leaves - Mike Wootten [30]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...? - Dennis Stacy [36]
   (Skyopen) An Interesting Find - William Hamilton [31]
   Sightings in Sao Paulo, Brazil - Thiago Ticchetti [30]
   BWW Media Alert 19990418 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [166]
   Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs ::: - John Alexander [6]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...? - Greg Sandow [13]
   Re: Alleged 'Secret Weapon' - Kenny Young [140]
   UFO Roundup Delayed - John Hayes [14]
   London (UK) UFO Meetings - John Hayes [26]

  Apr 19:

   Re: Possible UFO Landing Near Blind River, Ontario - Larry Hatch [6]
   Re: Ice Man Down - Edwin J. Martin Jr. [3]
   Cowboys vs The Flying Saucers - Don Allen [6]
   This Week On The UFO Community On MSN - Diana Botsford [88]
   Re: Ice Man Down - Kenny Young [8]
   Flying Saucer Model Use Lasers As Energy Source - Don Allen [127]
   The Vatican And UFOs - Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc [23]
   Gordon Creighton's 'C.V.' - John Hayes [131]
   The Millennium Report - April 19, 1999 - Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada
   [56]
   UFO*BC Update - 04-19-99 - UFO*BC [25]

  Apr 20:

   BBC: Is Anybody Out There? - Steven J. Dunn [74]
   Re: (Skyopen) An Interesting Find - Stan Friedman [25]
   Another Ohio Sighting Reported To Law Enforcement - Kenny Young [52]
   Re: The Vatican And UFOs - UFO UpDates - Toronto [7]
   Re: The Vatican And UFOs - Bob YoungBob2@aol.com [4]
   2 UFO Sighting Reports From Australia - Diane Harrison [89]
   Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...? - Henny van der Pluijm [20]

  Apr 21:

   Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...? - Greg Sandow [33]
   First 'Grey' Report? - Jesus Millan Arias [7]
   UK Peak District Earthlights Radio Slot - David Clarke [42]
   Re: (Skyopen) An Interesting Find - Larry Hatch [17]
   Astronomers Discover Mile-Wide Asteroid - Sean Jones [65]
   Norfolk (UK) UFO Group Seeking Guest Speakers - Jak Solomon [15]
   Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'? - Roy Hale [14]
   'Foolish' Speculation - Stephen MILES Lewis [11]
   Re: Open Letter on Environmental War - Alfred Webre [16]
   Re: First 'Grey' Report? - Larry Hatch [25]
   Re: First 'Grey' Report? - Jenny Randles [13]
   Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'? - Larry Hatch [8]
   Re: First 'Grey' Report? - Jerome Clark [55]
   Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'? - Sue Lawrence [8]
   Overseas Researchers Visiting UK In October? - Sue Lawrence [6]
   New Compuserve Forum - Sue Lawrence [11]
   Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'? - Dave Ledger [18]
   Re: First 'Grey' Report? - Diane Harrison [36]
   Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'? - Don Allen [15]
   Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'? - Dan Geib [7]

  Apr 22:

   New Website URL - Roy Hale [15]
   Sightings In Islamic Countries? - Alfredo Lissoni [5]
   Re: Author query? - Sean Jones [5]
   'The Varginha Incident' - Gamers' Archive - Leanne Martin [8]
   Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'? - Roy Hale [16]
   BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed - Steven J. Dunn [57]
   Jerry Black's Open Letter to Friedman - Glenn Joyner [377]
   Black's Update on Whitley Strieber - Glenn Joyner [378]
   Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'? - Sue Lawrence [3]
   Jaime Gesundt's open letter to Jerry Black - Jim Mortellaro [63]
   Re: Author query? - Jerome Clark [5]
   Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries? - Henny van der Pluijm [9]

  Apr 23:

   Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries? - Larry Hatch [18]
   Earth Changes TV/Breaking News - Mars - Mitch Battros [30]
   Re: Jerry Black's Update on Whitley Strieber - Don Allen [37]
   Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries? - Jenny Randles [11]
   Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon' - Don Allen [376]
   (eS) Io, Mars, & 'Dark Life' - exoScience David Watanabe [31]
   Re: Jerry Black's Open Letter - Pat McCartney [16]

  Apr 24:

   Spielberg Abduction Miniseries - Stephen MILES Lewis [27]
   Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries? - C D Conrad [3]
   Filer's Files #16 - 1999 - George A. Filer [377]
   Re: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed - Bob Young [27]
   P-47: UFO History: A Call for Papers - Jan Aldrich [57]
   Re: Ruppelt The Liar? - Jan Aldrich [69]
   P-47: Ruppelt The Liar? - Jan Aldrich [69]
   Spielberg Produces 20-Hour Miniseries On Abductions - Stig Agermose
   [37]
   * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-23-99 - Rense E-News [239]
   Fireball Lights Up Skies Over Washington State - Stig Agermose [18]
   Mars Sundial Base To Be Built In Arizona - Stig Agermose [48]
   Buckley Sighting Reported - Stig Agermose [102]
   Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon' - Larry Hatch [16]
   Berkeley Professor First Academic Chair Of E.T. - Stig Agermose [46]
   Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon' - Larry Hatch [9]

  Apr 25:

   Re: Spielberg Abduction Miniseries - Larry Hatch [18]
   Re: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed - Larry Hatch [25]
   UFO Desk - Site Adds - Paul Williams [10]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #300 - Alfred Lehmberg [88]
   Chat this Sunday with Bassett, Bletchman and Bryant - Yvonne Hedenland
   [13]
   Spielberg's Abduction Series 'Taken' - Stephen Lewis [99]
   'Roswell: Aliens Attack' TV Movie? - Richard D. Nolane [10]
   Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries? - Jenny Randles [10]
   Stig's Contribution - Steve Bassett [8]
   Pre-millennial Tension & Inexplicable Phenomena' - Stig Agermose [78]
   Fortean Times 'Un-Convention' This Weekend - Stig Agermose [112]
   Participatory Opportunity - Mike Jamieson [19]

  Apr 26:

   Re: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed - Nathan Ranger [14]
   This Week on the UFO Community on MSN - Diana Botsford [71]
   BWW Media Alert 19990425 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [200]
   Re: Spielberg Abduction Miniseries - John Ratcliff [13]
   Re: Spielberg Abduction Miniseries - Philip Mantle - UFO [27]
   Re: First 'Grey' Report? - Jesus Millan Arias [22]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300 - Rebecca [4]
   Re: 'Roswell: Aliens Attack' TV Movie? - Michael Christol [14]
   UFO Desk Updates 04-25-99 - Paul Williams [16]
   Re: 'Roswell: Aliens Attack' TV Movie? - Paul Williams [9]
   'Abducted!' - Paul Williams [21]
   AUFORN [OZ] Looking For Area Representatives - Diane Harrison [20]
   Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon' - Don Allen [8]
   UFOR: Research Institute on Anomalous Phenommena - Francisco Lopez
   [108]
   States Compete for Spaceports - Steven L. Wilson Sr [91]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300 - Alfred Lehmberg [18]

  Apr 27:

   The Millennium Report - April 26, 1999 - Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada
   [61]
   Fireball Lights Up Skies Over Washington State - Bob Young [17]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300 - GT McCoy [5]
   Two UFO Sightings Reported Over Pittsburgh - Stan Gordon [51]
   Re: * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-23-99 - Donald Ledger [10]
   Re: Ruppelt the Liar? - Jan Aldrich [77]
   UFO Over Australia Monday Night? - Werner Walter [8]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300 - Alfred Lehmberg [24]
   Re: Help Needed With UFO Report - Alex Field [107]
   Re: Roswell Movie - Brian Straight [2]
   Re: Jerry Black's Open Letter to Friedman - Stan Friedman [32]

  Apr 28:

   RAMS, Bell, Gersten, Rense Theroux - UFO UpDates - Toronto [283]
   UFO ROUNDUP Still Delayed - John Hayes [14]
   Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon' - Larry Hatch [10]
   Re: * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-23-99 - Jeff Rense [17]
   Jet Crew Tell Of Close Encounter With UFO - Stig Agermose [18]
   Satellite May Have Been Cause Of UFO Sightings - Stig Agermose [19]
   Shooting Star Explanation For UFO Sighting - Stig Agermose [23]
   Australia: Strange Lights Reported On NSW And Qld - Stig Agermose [24]
   Next Month Nearly Half A Million Will Join Search - Stig Agermose [127]
   Space Travel: NASA Designs Flying Saucer - Stig Agermose [78]

  Apr 29:

   Seeking A Therapist In London - Jenny Randles [17]
   Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries? - Alfredo Lissoni [14]
   Abductee/Researcher Kelly Cahill in DC 4th July - Steven Kaeser [7]
   Re: Jet Crew Tell Of Close Encounter With UFO - John Hayes [27]
   Dreamy Draw/Cave Creek Crash - John Hayes [20]
   Amberley Airshow [Australia] Question - John Hayes [20]
   Re: First 'Grey' Report? - Jerome Clark [19]
   UFO ICQ GROUP - Lloyd WA Cosway [10]
   Art Bell Is Gone!? - Don Allen [21]
   ETs: Is Astronomy Refashioning The Images Of God? - Stig Agermose [153]
   Who Are These Mysterious Pilots - Kathleen Andersen [20]
   Greg's E-Mail Glitch - Greg Sandow [7]
   Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon' - Don Allen [62]
   Re: Dreamy Draw/Cave Creek Crash - Larry Hatch [30]
   Re: First 'Grey' Report? - Jenny Randles [44]
   Re: P-47: UFO History: A Call for Papers - Bruce Maccabee [271]
   Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon' - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Re: Removing Metal Implants? - Ben Field [41]

  Apr 30:

   Pilot Spots UFO/UFO Mag [UK] Building Collpase - Graham William
   Birdsall [63]
   Leir Steps Down From F.I.R.S.T. - Jolene Rae Harrington [51]
   Sighting Report from OZ - Downed Satellite? - Diane Harrison [42]
   OZ Sighting Report - April 26 '99 - Diane Harrison [30]
   E-Mail Addresses Requested - Philip Mantle - QUEST [23]
   Re: Who Are These Mysterious Pilots - Bob Young [9]
   Villa Santina 1947 Case (was: Re: First 'Grey' - Edoardo Russo [81]
   Filer's Files #17 - 99 - George A. Filer [402]





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 1

                                Housekeeping

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 12:06:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 12:06:59 -0500
Subject: Housekeeping



Gentle Readers,

Finally, the move is complete.....

Surrounded by more boxes than I consciously recall moving - tho'
the back will attest differently, the important part of the
system here is installed and functioning.

My apologies for the lack of UpDates for the past few days.
It'll probably take several hours to catch up with the back-log.

Please note the changes in the .sig below - both the telephone
number and the software needed to listen to 'Strange Days...
Indeed' on Sunday nights.

ebk





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 1

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:57:27 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 12:14:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:13:18 -0500
>Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:09:15 -0500
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>Regarding:

>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:26:34 -0500
>>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Peter,

>Noting that this is a new location for my web site:

>http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/

>Under the topic, "The Flying Saucer Genesis", there remains the
>following feature:

>First Radio Interview with Kenneth Arnold; 25 June 1947

>By John Powell

>The following is thought to be (considered to be) the first
>public interview Kenneth Arnold gave regarding his sighting.
>Thanks go to Mike Christol for providing the audiotape. JP.

>NEWSCASTER:

>The nation, every newscaster, and every newspaper across the
>nation has made headlines out of it, and this afternoon we are
>honored, indeed, to have here in our studio this man, Kenneth
>Arnold, who, we believe, may be able to give us a first-hand
>account and give you the same on what happened.

>Kenneth, first of all if you'll move up here to the microphone
>just a little closer, we'll ask you to just tell in your own
>fashion, as you told us last night in your hotel room, and again
>this morning, what you were doing there and how this entire
>thing started. Go ahead, Kenneth.

<snip>


James & List,

The date of the Arnold radio interview is in error. It was June
26 not 25, 1947, as you can verify by reading the excerpt
(below) or checking with Pierre Lagrange -- the recording was
undated as I understand it. Arnold first came forward around 12
Noon on June 25 when he found the FBI office closed then went to
the Pendleton East Oregonian office where the history-making
story was taken then put on the AP wire. Arnold was flooded
with press interviews later that afternoon and evening. The
radio broadcast interview refers to speaking to Arnold "last
night in your hotel room, and again this morning," which could
not possibly be the night of the 24th and morning of the 25th
since Arnold had not spoke to the press that early. It was the
evening of the 25th and morning of the 26th, then the radio
interview.

BTW, if I understand the upshot of the arguments back and forth
between Peter Brookesmith and Dave Rudiak, it is that
Brookesmith admits he was dead wrong in insisting that Arnold
never described his objects as "saucer" shaped until 3 weeks
after the fact, after the press in the intervening time had
supposedly influenced him or suggested the "saucer" shape to
him. Brookesmith says Rudiak's quotes of early interviews of
Arnold less than 48 hours post-sighting do "indeed dispose of my
hypothesis of a media-influenced feedback loop into Arnold's
perception, and I apologize for wasting everyone's time with
that."

Rudiak is quite correct in quoting very early interviews with
Arnold within days after the event referring to the objects as
"saucer" shaped. However, the Chicago Tribune story was
published on June 26 not the 25th, based on phone interview of
late the 25th (Loren Gross' history misdates it). Jan Aldrich
of Project 1947 informs me there was no Tribune article on the
case at all on the 25th.

I think the argument about discrepancies in Arnold's
descriptions of the objects' shapes is rather nitpicking, when
it is admitted that he had trouble describing something unusual
which took him by surprise and which he had difficulty seeing or
at least discerning detail ("so thin I could barely see them").

Obviously, _overall_ their shape was "round" and "saucer" shaped.
The problem comes with the _exception_ to the overall rule, namely
the cutoff in the back, leading to a more "bat-shaped"
appearance as Arnold said early on. The question is in the mode
of description. Does one stick to the overall appearance
("saucer" shaped) then note the exceptions, or strive to come up
with a supposedly more exact descriptive label ("bat") that may
not in fact be exactly correct either? I can understand Arnold
vacillating between such options as he was hounded by the press.
After all there was no manual of instruction for UFO witnesses
for him to refer to for assistance!

That said, I am nevertheless bothered by the fact that no one
else in the 1947 flap ever saw objects shaped like Arnold's,
with only one possible exception (a suspected hoax apparently).

Brad Sparks






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 1

                        Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX

From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:43:30 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 12:22:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX


Everyone,

On 3-25-1999 Art Bell has had his webmaster Keith Rowland block
Art Bell, Richard C. Hoagland of the Enterprise Mission, and
Rowland himself their domains from my domain at montana.com thus
rendering these people's web sites blocked from viewing from
myself and several thousand other western Montanans.

This is in response from my dissent toward their propagation of
lies and fear mongering and misrepresenting NASA. This is a
fearsome act of censorship on this new medium of global union
called the Internet, attempted by Art Bell.

The act is a failure, however. Using UNIX commands I have full
access to each of the websites in question, thus, I can continue
to dissent at will. I will continue to do so in greater fury
now. This act was stupid on Rowland-Bell-Hoagland's part since
all it does is 'punish' (a welcome reprieve?) a whole brace of
fellow Montanans that may not know how to access Internet
servers and their sites via UNIX.

Bell-Rowland-Hoagland are simply illiterate regarding the
internet and UNIX protocols. Their websites are sitting here on
my monitors as I write this in real time. Nothing has changed in
this regard.

If you find this act deplorable in the least, please write, Bell,
Hoagland, Rowland at:

keithr@rowlandnet.com
or
ArtBell@aol.com
or
enterprise@sprintmail.com

If you would like to verify this attempted act of censorship by
Art Bell and his minions please contact my ISP at:
ics@montana.com or 1-406-541-5360

What in the world are these people attempting to hide from??
Bell has his radio show, 20 million listeners, the Jacor
Enterprise Entertainment Juggarnaut, Peter Gersten and CAUS as a
good attorney in defense, Hoagland having mild heart problems
for distractions, etc. et al.

I have a keyboard.


Dissent is my Business.
Business is Good.


Thank you


-- -- sincerely,


Robert A.M.Stephens
NASA Documentation Program
Stillwater Mills-Aerospace
KSC-PIB/shuttle/MSF
406-745-3818
sti3818@montana.com
http://198.116.116.10/gallery/arts/samples/.html
http://cdfnet.com/RAMSES/
http://www.cdfnet.com/INTERVIEWS





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 1

                         Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:30:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 12:35:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples


>From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:51:00 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:29:28 -0700
>>From: Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research <iufor@frii.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

>>>From: John Ratcliff <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples
>>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:00:38 -0600

>>>What an exciting discovery!! I have only just now learned
>>>that silicon is not an ET element!!

>>>Hmmm..query? What's an 'ET element'?

>>All of the known elements are ET elements.

>I have a question. This is to everyone, not just above.

>Hypothetically if we are dealing with an intelligence that is
>perhaps, lets say even 50 years ahead of us, why would they be
>using silicon? To my layman knowledge, I thought that it is a
>given that due to the limitations of silicon (laws of physics)
>that even we today are looking toward new possibilities in
>technology (DNA, Protein Based,etc). Silicon in 20 years will a
>thing of the past. My child who works Microsoft was talking DNA
>computers almost 10 years ago.

>So if we are trying to vision what possibilities could exist
>with something ahead of us, I would think it would make more
>sense to talk about living organisms placed in our body to track
>us (if that is what they wanted to do), or microscopic robotics,
>or holograms. Heck, they don't even have to be physically here,
>they could just be visiting via the mind. I mean everyone has
>watched The Discovery Science channel to see how close we are to
>minature technology.

>I think we need to use more imagination when talking about
>aliens. How about taming bacteria, like it was a pet and
>sending it off to do some work. I don't know...I'm rather joking
>here but cannot grasp some of the stories coming out about alien
>technologies. It just seems too 90s!


Dear Kathleen:

I'm sure the next 20 or 50 years will bring amazing advances in
technology. But, old technologies don't really die, they just
fade away!

In the 1960s they were writing funeral dirges for the stodgy old
vacuum tubes found in every old radio. Those went, but VTs are
still found in nearly every desktop computer screen and
television set (the CRT). Radio stations (the main power
transmitter tube) Radar, microwave ovens and transmitters ..
the list goes on.

In some states ( Wyoming.. ) the sheriff patrols the outback on
horseback. The electric car is making a comeback.

As for elements, silicon is very very useful. Silicon is not
going away any time soon. Where I work they are using old
semiconductor technology for new devices, micro machining and
the like. The base material? Silicon. Cheap and effective.

If aliens have a "periodic chart of the elements", it may well
be longer than ours, with elements added at the end that we are
yet to discover.

It almost goes without saying that the regular elements would be
combined into new compounds, some with amazing properties.
Science and technology are coming up with new compounds all the
time. Look at the 'high temperature' superconductors!

But! I would wager that the first 92 elements ( not compounds!)
would be just about the same as ours; since they are not "ours",
but pertain to the universe at large, for as far as our
instruments

can see so far.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 1

              'U.S. Military UFO Cover-Up Foiled' In Australia?

From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:31:01 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 12:37:39 -0500
Subject: 'U.S. Military UFO Cover-Up Foiled' In Australia?


http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw/special.htm

U.S MILITARY UFO COVER-UP FOILED IN AUSTRALIA

Or,
The Balloon goes up over Pine Gap


It happened in 1992 but is only told now

By Warren Aston UFO Researcher

Researcher Warren Aston has just released details of an amazing
UFO cover-up attempted by U.S military personnel based at the
Top-Secret underground Pine Gap base in Australia. Details have
now been released of how two Australian policeman unwittingly
foiled an attempt by two U.S military personal to cover-up UFO
activity over the nearby town of Alice Springs.

Many Alice Springs residents reported fast-moving lights flying
over the central Australian town on the evening of 26th
November, 1996. Police were numbered among those making reports
of the strangely maneouvering lights.

At least one video of the object was captured by a policeman and
is now undergoing analysis in the U.S. A little over an hour
later that same evening, two policeman on patrol ( who have
requested anonymity ) witnessed a number of hot-air balloons
slowly bobbing over the town. At the same time a call came in
asking them to investigate suspicious activity by a car on an
isolated back road in the dessert east of the town. Suspecting a
link with the balloons over the town, the two officers sped off
and they quickly apprehended a station wagon full of plastic hot
air balloons in various stages of construction, including one on
the side of the road ready to be sent aloft.

The two men in the vehicle had North American accents and at
first refused to answer question, but when threatened with
arrest they reluctantly produced ID cards identifying them as
personal from the massive super-secret Pine Gap facility located
nearby. Under agreement between the Australian and US
Governments, personal at this American-run base are virtually
immune from legal action. Eventually the men, claiming to be
merely a geologist and an engineer, were allowed to drive off
into the darkness, leaving behind many unanswered questions.

Why would staff from a secret American base in Australia be
involved in setting off hot air balloons outside a nearby town?
. Clearly, they were attempting to confuse the UFO sightings
made earlier that evening. Where they then going to claim that
these reports were only hot air balloons?.

And if so, as seems likely, WHY??. Pine Gap base, hidden in the
remote and geologically stable Australian about back, has long
been linked to covert U.S military/ Intelligence activity
concerning recovered Alien craft and secretly developed military
programs. Among other things, in recent years Pine Gap has been
linked with white disks seen flying from hidden access points on
the base and with the beams of "energy" fired into space causing
a fast moving UFO to reverse it's course in full view of the
shuttle Discovery's cameras in 1991. This latest development
will do nothing to quell the growing suspicion that PINE GAP is
crucial, perhaps even central, to these covert efforts.

THE END

To find out more about Pine Gap. plug into Slider home page
below

http://www.network.com.au/home/slider/pinegap/.htm

None of the above as copyright.




)+(
TBrigham@ksinc.net
www.ksinc.net/~devilsad/ufo.htm The Devil's Advocate
www.ksinc.net/~devilsad/ring.htm Operation MindPhuck
"Better to go hungry than to feast on lies."
)+(










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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 1

                         Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

From: Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research <iufor@frii.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:10:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 12:44:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples


>From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:51:00 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

>I have a question. This is to everyone, not just above.

>Hypothetically if we are dealing with an intelligence that is
>perhaps, lets say even 50 years ahead of us, why would they be
>using silicon? To my layman knowledge, I thought that it is a
>given that due  to the limitations of silicon (laws of physics)
>that even we today are looking toward new possibilities in
>technology (DNA, Protein Based,etc). Silicon in 20 years will a
>thing of the past. My child who works Microsoft was talking DNA
>computers almost 10 years ago.

Kathleen, they are only talking about organically based
technologies in terms of computers. There are lots more uses for
silicon than just inside the CPU chip of your computer. Silicon
semiconductors are very good, for instance, at controlling high
power. Connect one of your organic thingies up to a 50,000 watt
power bus and then watch it sizzle! Silicon is going to remain
useful for a long time to come.

>So if we are trying to vision what possibilities could exist
>with something ahead of us, I would think it would make more
>sense to talk about living organisms placed in our body to track
>us (if that is what they wanted to do), or microscopic robotics,
>or holograms. Heck, they don't even have to be physically here,
>they could just be visiting via the mind. I mean everyone has
>watched The Discovery Science channel to see how close we are to
>minature technology.

>I think we need to use more imagination when talking about
>aliens.  How about taming bacteria, like it was a pet and
>sending it off to do some work. I don't know...I'm rather joking
>here but cannot grasp some of the stories coming out about alien
>technologies. It just seems too 90s!

>Just my opinion......


As for imagination about aliens, I think there is plenty of that
around!

One of the mysteries about UFOs is the way they have always
appeared to have technology that is just barely ahead of our
own, and seemingly of a nature that is straight ahead on the
path that our own development will take us in a few years.
Airships in the 1800's before we had 'em -- but not long before.
When we had propeller driven airplanes, UFOs could manage a few
hundred miles an hour; enough to keep out of the way, but not
blindingly fast. When we got jets, UFOs got faster too. When we
went supersonic, UFOs started flying like a streak of sh**. So
what is their level of technology, really? Are they just barely
keeping ahead of us? Hardly seems likely to most people. But why
hold back to match the current level of human development? No
good reason for that either, unless they're trying to teach us
something.

Myself, I like to toy with the idea that in order to manifest
themselves in this reality, they have to play by its rules --
unless they more or less fit in with the current paradigm of our
planetary consciousness, they can't be here at all. There, how's
that for imagination?

Regards,

Bob


--
    INSTITUTE FOR UFO RESEARCH
----------------------------------
Bob Thrift, Fort Collins, Colorado
    http://www.frii.com/~iufor/





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 1

                         Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:53:15 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 15:41:17 -0500
Subject: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


On Tuesday March 30th at 10:00pm EST, Sightings on the Radio and
Jeff Rense will be hosting a debate between Stanton Friedman and
Lawrence Krauss. Stanton needs no introduction but many of you
may not be aware of who Krauss is.

Lawrence Krauss is the chair of the physics department at Case
Western University. He is also the author of the opinion
editorial piece that ran in the New York Times regarding NBC's
Confirmation special. Mr. Krauss was very hard on the special
and especially on Whitley Strieber. Krauss is a skeptic when it
comes to UFOs and ETs visiting our planet.

I wrote to Krauss and expressed my feelings on the subject of
Ufology and on what I thought were unfair attacks on the special
and on Strieber. He didn't back down. This is some of what he
sent to me. He said it was okay to share. First his editorial.
Don't miss this show. Jeff Rense as usual is covering the most
important topics and has the most entertaining shows. Thank god
for him! I originally suggested to Krauss that he go on Art
Bell's program. Bell ignored my emails to him on this. I have
seen the light and its name is Rense!

Make sure you read where Krauss talks about how the Times
scoured the web for information that would give the article
color. They used the web as a source? This is the New York
Times? Last week I asked Whitley if there was anything on his
site that said he was injected with chemicals in his brain by
aliens. He said no and that the Times was lieing. Here's the Op
Ed piece, then my response to Krauss and finally his response to
me. Some interesting stuff...

Try tolisten and call in some good questions for Krauss.

Joe Murgia
Tampa, Florida

---

Krauss wrote:

"I view the fact that Strieber was an ex-horror story writer as
a factor which makes me more dubious, not less, of his writing.
In any case, the statement about injection with chemicals was
obtained from my new York Times researchers, who went to his web
site and others for a description of his abduction experience.
(for what it is worth, this is something the NYT wanted to add
for color, so they scoured the web for this information..)."



New York Times Opinion Editorial Section

February 22, 1999


Stop the Flying Saucer, I Want to Get Off

By LAWRENCE M. KRAUSS

There was a great deal of concern expressed during the Monica
Lewinsky scandal that the distinction between mainstream
journalism and the tabloids had all but van- ished. But the
public, bombarded day and night with salacious and irrelevant
revelations, managed to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Is it too much to hope that this innate good sense will apply to
the tabloid fare that television is peddling now, during the
ratings sweeps? No longer able to rely on Washington to provide
a steady supply of sensationalism, at least one net- work has
started looking to outer space. I am talking, of course, about
alien abductions.

Last Wednesday night, while channel-surfing toward the PBS end
of the spectrum, I was stopped by the title shots of a program
called "Confirmation: The Hard Evidence of Aliens Among Us?"
Grainy images of flying saucers, aliens' faces and an
eerie-looking operating table filled the screen. It must be a
Fox TV promo for "The X-Files," I thought.

Then I noticed the NBC peacock in the corner. The two-hour
special, produced by the network's entertainment division,
purported to explore reports of alien visitation, from mind-
altering implants to abductions.

Chief among the purveyors of "hard evidence" was the author
Whitley Strieber, whose big-eyed alien abductors snatched him
from his home one night, injected chemicals into his brain and
helped him get onto the best-seller lists. NBC presented Mr.
Strieber as both an "expert" source and a journalistic
interviewer. I learned later that he was also an executive
producer of the show. Is it unfair to suspect that his personal
stake in the alien abduction phenomenon biased the presentation?

I watched what was touted as "the first on-camera removal of an
alleged alien implant" from the hand of a purported abductee.
The operating physician noted that there was nothing nec-
essarily extraterrestrial about a small fragment of metal lodged
under someone's skin. But once the blackened spur was ex-
tracted, an abductee "expert" on the scene told us excitedly
that this was the most remarkable piece of metal he had ever
seen removed from a person. (It looked to me like a small
watermelon seed, but alas I am not an expert on alien implants.)

The fragment was then sent, for reasons unexplained, to be an-
alyzed by a geologist. It was magnified by a scanning electron
microscope, and we learned -- to our amazement! -- that it ap-
peared to be a bit of iron. We were then informed that -- even
more mysteriously -- although it did indeed contain iron, the
geologist "couldn't classify it."

What we were not told was why a geologist should be able to
"classify" an object removed from someone's finger, or what
particular aspect was unclassifiable. Moreover, we were not told
why -- if this supposed evidence was so important -- NBC did not
have the resources to have it analyzed by another lab- oratory.
But, of course, if the fragment had turned out to be part of the
edge of a car door, or a shard from a metal fence post, it might
have been somewhat harder to justify its alien origin.

So we were left to conclude that, yes, extraterrestrials must
have planted a mysterious device in some guy's hand. Tech-
nically, I suppose, the iron chip is hard evidence. But it de-
pends on what the meaning of "is" is.

This minor bit of yellow journalism and the press coverage of
President Clinton's problems are related, and in a way I find
unnerving.

After years of watching displays of righteous indignation from
politicians, the public has become largely immune to them. In
fact, it has been comforting to see how the moderating effect of
popular opinion can silence zealots on both the right and the
left. When it comes to scientific zealots, however, it's a
different story.


When a big network strips away the pretense of journalistic
integrity to promote alien abduction claims by interested
parties, where is the moderating influence? The excuse that
NBC's special came from its entertainment division rather than
its news division is a feeble one, because the distinction is
lost on most viewers.

Mountains of statistics suggest that the public is far more
susceptible to scientific nonsense than political nonsense. More
than half of Americans are unaware that the earth orbits the sun
and takes a year to do it. Many people simply do not have the
tools to distinguish charlatans from honest researchers.

Still, people crave more information about the scientific break-
throughs that are changing our world, and television is an
important source of that knowledge. But if "science" on net-
work television consists mostly of either programs hyping alien
visitation or news segments detailing diet break- throughs, is
it any wonder that the border between sense and nonsense becomes
blurred?

The late Carl Sagan called science a "candle in the dark," a
method of inquiry that illuminates the true nature of myths and
superstitions. He also proved that science -- even tele- vised
science -- could be both accurate and entertaining.

If NBC's executives had devoted those two hours to any of the
actual mysteries being faced in medicine, biology, chemistry,
astronomy or physics, they might have discovered something that
everyone who has honestly explored the physical universe knows:
yes, truth often is stranger than fiction.

As for me, after getting my fill of NBC's alien "investigation,"
I tuned in to the more compelling science fiction of "Star
Trek."

Lawrence M. Krauss, chairman of the physics department at Case
Western Reserve University, is the author of ``The Physics of
Star Trek'' and the forthcoming ``Genesis: The Lives of an
Atom.''

***************My letter to Krauss********************


Hi Mr. Krauss,

I wanted to make some comments regarding your editorial on the
Confirmation special on NBC. I'll take each part one ay a time.
I'll only deal with the parts that refer specifically to the
special and/or UFOs.

>Stop the Flying Saucer, I Want to Get Off

>By LAWRENCE M. KRAUSS

>Then I noticed the NBC peacock in the corner. The two-hour
>special, produced by the network's entertainment division,
>purported to explore reports of alien visitation, from
>mind-altering implants to abductions.

Was there anything that said "mind altering" implants? Maybe I
missed that. It did explore alleged alien visitation and alleged
abduction.

>Chief among the purveyors of "hard evidence" was the author
>Whitley Strieber, whose big-eyed alien abductors snatched him
>from his home one night, injected chemicals into his brain and
>helped him get onto the best-seller lists.

Strieber was a very successful author before writing Communion.
He had two of his horror novels, Wolfen and The Hunger made into
successful films. For what it's worth, he has allegedly had
numerous experiences with non-human beings, not just one
experience. Where did you find information that Strieber claimed
"they" injected chemicals into his brain? This is a
sensationalized statement. The same kind of sensationalization
that you complain about.

>NBC presented Mr. Strieber as both an "expert" source and a
>journalistic interviewer. I learned later that he was also an
>executive producer of the show. Is it unfair to suspect that
>his personal >stake in the alien abduction phenomenon biased the
>presentation?


Not unfair at all. To tell you the truth, Strieber is not a very
good interviewer and he shouldn't have been put in that
position. There was another executive producer also I believe.
It would have been nice to have a hard hitting journalist take a
look at this subject in depth but they're so afraid of being
labeled a nut and losing their job. Can you blame them? Just
reading your editorial is enough to scare off any serious
journalist who might want to examine this topic.

>I watched what was touted as "the first on-camera removal of an
>alleged alien implant" from the hand of a purported abductee.
>The operating physician noted that there was nothing necessarily
>extraterrestrial about a small fragment of metal lodged under
>someone's skin. But once the blackened spur was extracted, an
>abductee "expert" on the scene told us excitedly that this was
>the most remarkable piece of metal he had ever seen removed from
>a person. (It looked to me like a small watermelon seed, but
>alas I am not an expert on alien implants.)

Nobody says that they are alien implants. The objects are inside
of people and these people don't know how they got there. Plus,
these people have some type of memories of a non-human
intelligence interacting with them.

>The fragment was then sent, for reasons unexplained, to be
>analyzed by a geologist. It was magnified by a scanning electron
>microscope, and we learned -- to our amazement! -- that it
>appear ed to be a bit of iron. We were then informed that --
>even more mysteriously -- although it did indeed contain iron,
>the geologist "couldn't classify it."

What we were not told was why a geologist should be able to
"classify" an object removed from someone's finger, or what par-
ticular aspect was unclassifiable. Moreover, we were not told
why -- if this supposed evidence was so important -- NBC did not
have the resources to have it analyzed by another laboratory.
But, of course, if the fragment had turned out to be part of the
edge of a car door, or a shard from a metal fence post, it might
have been somewhat harder to justify its alien origin.>

There was more testing done but there's only so much you can do
in two hours. If I were producing the special, I would have had
two or three labs do the testing. Problem is, this can be
expensive. I doubt NBC gave them unlimited funds. In the book,
Confirmation, Strieber goes into more detail regarding this
testing. The guy said that of the 65,000 materials in their
database, they could not match this object to any of them. I too
would have like to see another lab on camera, say the same
thing. Aren't you at least curious about this? If you know labs
that would do the testing for free, I'm sure Mr. Strieber would
accept. his email is whitley@strieber.com

>
>So we were left to conclude that, yes, extraterrestrials must
>have planted a mysterious device in some guy's hand.
>Technically, I suppose, the iron chip is hard evidence. But it
>depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

I did not have sexual relations with that alien, Ms.
Liw-alien-ski.

No, we're left to conclude that that is one possibility. Maybe
somebody is doing testing on humans. It has happened
before and it's documented by our own gov't. The gov't fed
plutonium to babies. What else would our gov't do? Or
maybe, it's just an innocent object found in the person. I
don't know, but more science is needed and it would be
nice if people like yourself could look at this evidence in
an objective way. We need more mainstream scientists
to get involved!

>When a big network strips away the pretense of journalistic
>integrity to promote alien abduction claims by interested
>parties, where is the moderating influence? The excuse that
>NBC's special came from its entertainment division rather than
>its news division is a feeble one, because the distinction is
>lost on most viewers.

I agree. I would love to see 60 minutes or Dateline do just
one show on this topic. Investigate the hell out of it and
see if there is enough data to support any of the claims.
If not, then drop it. Problem is, they won't do it! They're
too scared to be ridiculed by science and by sponsors.
So, we take what we can get and deal with Confirmation.
Not a perfect show, I realize this.

>Mountains of statistics suggest that the public is far more
>susceptible to scientific nonsense than political nonsense. More
>than half of Americans are unaware that the earth orbits the sun
>and takes a year to do it. Many people simply do not have the
>tools to distinguish charlatans from honest researchers.

If you lived in the days when people thought the Earth was flat,
would you have called the round earth theory scientific
nonsense? No, you probably would have said that in order to test
that hypothesis, we need to collect data. If the data points to
a round Earth, then so be it. If not, then watch out for that
edge, it's a doozy! Who are you calling a charlatan? Have you
ever met or talked with any of the people in the special?

Is pulitzer prize winning author Dr. John Mack, who has
researched abductions, a charalatan? Harvard tried to get his
tenure removed but he founght and won. You think his research
into abductions had anything to do with that push to get him
out? That's why people shut their mouths and
don't talk about this subject. Fear of ridicule.

>Still, people crave more information about the scientific
>breakthroughs that are changing our world, and television is an
>important source of that knowledge. But if "science" on network
>television consists mostly of either programs hyping alien
>visitation or news segments detailing diet breakthroughs, is it
>any wonder that the border between sense and nonsense becomes
>blurred?

Have you done any serious research on UFOs at all? Have you read
Project Blue Book? Are you open to the possibility of a
propulsion system that manipulates gravity in a way that makes
faster than light travel possible?

>The late Carl Sagan called science a "candle in the dark," a
>method of inquiry that illuminates the true nature of myths and
>superstitions. He also proved that science -- even televised
>science -- could be both accurate and entertaining.

Myths and superstitions? Is that what UFOs are to you? Once
again, what reasearch have you conducted?

>If NBC's executives had devoted those two hours to any of the
>actual mysteries being faced in medicine, biology, chemistry,
>astronomy or physics, they might have discovered something that
>everyone who has honestly explored the physical universe knows:
>yes, truth often is stranger than fiction.


UFOs have direct links to studying physics. If there is a
propulsion system that UFOs use and we're not familar with,
think of how that would change our world if we gained use of
such a thing. Paul Hill, a Chief Scientist-Manager at NASA's
Langley Research Center compiled data over decades of research.
He  acted as an informal clearing- house for UFO-related data
and wrote Unconventional Flying Objects. He argued that UFOs
don't break the laws of physics. Unfortunately this book is over
my head and more on your level so I can't comment on it.

Mr. Krauss, I realize you hated the special but are your
feelings towards the subject matter the same or are you willing
to look at the data? Would you be willing to go on a national
talk show and debate the topic? I'm sure Art Bell would love to
have you on. Could your reputation handle being linked to such a
topic and/or show? He examines UFOs and other "strange" topics.

As far as humans getting abducted or not, I don't know. But you
really need to talk to these people face to face before you
judge their truthfulness. I know some of these people and they
are so afraid to talk about what might have happened to them.
They fear being ridiculed and labeled kooks. Can you blame them?
What would you do if something like that happened to you? Just
take that into consideration.

I don't what UFOs are or who, if anybody, is piloting them, but
I know that they are physical objects. I believe the
evidence is overwhelming and compelling that this is so.


********Krauss Responds********

Dear Mr. Mrugia:

Thank you for your letter, which was in no way mean- spirited or
rude. I do not have time go into all things you discussed in
detail, but let me just comment on the main things one by one,
to let you know where I am coming from on this.

1.  In the segment I referred to in the article, the person from
who the alleged implant was removed, was interviewed afterwards,
and he said he had an "empty feeling".  I took that to mean that
the implant was purported to have had some mind altering effect.

2.  I view the fact that Strieber was an ex-horror story writer
as a factor which makes me more dubious, not less, of his
writing.  In any case, the statement about injection with
chemicals was obtained from my new York Times researchers, who
went to his web site and others for a description of his
abduction experience. (for what it is worth, this is something
the NYT wanted to add for color, so they scoured the web for
this information..).

3. For a two hour prime-time special NBC's resources could cover
100 lab analyses...

4.  I have read the statements for Dr. Mack and I believe he is
a charlatan, in the sense that he is not scientific.  The
statement that if all these people believe something happened to
them then it must have happened is just plain silly.  Alas,
tenure is such that once you have it, you have the freedom to be
silly.  Dr. Mack is enjoying that freedom.

5. Indeed, if you read my books, the Physics of STar Trek, and
Beyond Star Trek, you will see that I have thought a great deal
about the physics of space travel--- in particular I have
discussed the issues of gravity and faster than light travel
there, and with NASA.

This last point gets to the heart of the matter.  The general
issue of alien visitation is so a prior ludicrous, on the basis
of any sound physical reasoning, that any claim that it has
actually happened would have to meet the strongest skepticism
and scrutiny.  There are many strange things in the world, but
as the physicist Richard Feynman used to point out, scien- tists
only have a finite amount of time to work on projects. So they
choose exciting projects, but more important they work on things
which are likely to have some possibility of being right.  The
reason that most people, such as myself, don't spend time
investigating each detailed claim is that the a priori
probability that it is true is almost zero....  Thus, I cannot
prove that the claims are false, I can just say that I expect
that they are... and each time I see something like the
purported hard evidence, I find it isn't.  The point is that any
explanation, no matter how implausible, of the claims, is more
plausible than ascribing them to alien visitation. Thus, as long
as there is any other explanation which remains equally, or more
plausible, why should I, or anyone jump to the conclusion that
aliens are involved.

I hope this addresses your questions, and in the spirit of your
email, that it is not rude or mean-sprited.   I am certainly
open to discussing this issues on national TV or radio with or
without Mr. Strieber.  I do so often, in fact.

Best regards

Lawrence Krauss





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 1

                   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 21:24:51 PST
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 15:43:04 -0500
Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France


>From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:38:44 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

>>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:00:13 PST

<snip>

>>>Whoever concocted this hoax has a good working knowledge of the
>>>UFO scene back in 1917 and some familiarity with the U.S. Army's
>>>World War One 'Table Of Organization'.

>>The only person I know of close to being _that_ old is James
>>Bond Johnson . . .   ];-)

>With friends like Leanne who needs enemies!


James,

I thought you'd get a giggle out of that one . . .  :-)

>James Bond Johnson

Regards,

Leanne.





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   Apr > Apr 1

                  Re: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest

From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 21:36:24 PST
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 15:54:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest


>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:36:48 -0800
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
>Subject: Re: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest Update From RPIT


>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:59:07 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Photogrammetric Refutation of Latest Update From RPIT


>Brad and All on UpDates,

>>Dear Neil & List,

>>What an outstanding simulation of the paper orientation of Ramey's
>>Telegram! You've very precisely matched even the appearance of the
>>telegram, as well as the position of the thumb and orientation of
>>the folds, complete with the slight but insignificant curling up
>>of the Upper Left Corner. However, your blank seal is jammed up to
>>within about 1/4 inch of the left edge of the paper whereas the
>>actual Ramey Telegram has a 1/2-inch margin clearly visible right
>>into the Upper Left Corner which corner appears to be entirely
>>BLANK. Your original positioning of the military "eagle seal"
>>almost entirely MISSES the curled-up corner, so that it cannot
>>possibly benefit from that corner's better angle facing the >camera,
>>contrary to what you said.  And your experimental seal is larger,
>>if 1.5 inches in diameter, than the approximately 1.2-inch seal on
>>your original graphic.  All in all, though, an excellent job!


>Regarding seals/stamps in use around that time by the military,
>since the first experiment I've done some digging through the
>100 or so documents I have of that time and checked our the
>sizes of seals I've been able to find. They seem to group into 4
>sizes from 1" and 1.25" used in document letterheads and more
>interestingly 1 3/4" and 1 5/16" used in manual "stamp/seals" on
>plain stationary to show their source and/or status. In the
>attached demo I've shown the 1 3/4" size. Side by side with the
>1 5/15" version and the original this seems the closest "fit",
>but should anyone grumble at this point, try it yourself and
>see.

>>And thank you for proving my point! Your blank seal is oriented at
>>about a 73 degree pitch or inclination angle to the camera almost
>>exactly matching the actual Ramey Telegram with its approximately
>>78-degree angle in that corner. Had the EAGLE SEAL been inside the
>>empty circle it would have been painfuly obvious it DOES NOT MATCH
>>your interpretation.

<snipped - but good>

>Checking sample areas from Stantons raw neg scans, there are
>subtle but subjective differences of clarity in the prints, the
>prints _do_ capture this subtlety and it seems to be transfered
>to the digitised medium.

>Neil.

>rletdemo1.gif


Neil, Brad & List,

Am I the only one who thinks that the in the Ramey original
message photo his index finger is forcing the very top section
of the folded sheet upwards (perpendicular) to the main body?

The shading on the right side of the upper section would seem to
prove this to be the case . . .

Regards,
Leanne  ];-0  !






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   Apr > Apr 1

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 00:49:26 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 15:58:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description


>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:13:18 -0500
>Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:09:15 -0500
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description


>Regarding assertions that Arnold would never conceivably have
>described the objects as flying "like a saucer would if you
>skipped it across the water"..

Uhhh, who ever said that? I said that description never
appeared in the 1947 media and wasn't raised until years later
in Arnold's book in which he claimed that he described the
motion that way. However, Arnold clearly did use the term
"saucer-like" to describe the shape on several different
occasions in 1947. He also used "disk" and "pie-plate" and
"pie-pan" and other adjectives like "thin" and "flat" and
"rounded" in front. He drew a picture in a letter he wrote to
air intelligence on July 12.

As to motion, what did make it into the 1947 press was Arnold's
repeated descriptions of how they weaved and dipped together in
single file, "like the tail of a kite." He also described them
flipping and flashing in the sun like fish. But nothing about
skimming or skipping motion. Maybe he said it, but you don't see
it.

How many times do we have to go over this until you British
skeptics get it?

>In Bruce Maccabee's detailed commentary 'The Complete Sighting
>Report of Kenneth Arnold, with Comments and Analysis', also
>available on my web site with Bruce's permission, Bruce notes
>that Arnold later wrote in 'The Coming of the Saucers':

Yeah, already quoted from in my original post that started this
thread. Another thing I've noticed skeptics doing a lot is
ignoring the actual content of the posts they criticize. E.g.,
Brookesmith originally did that as well to arrive at the absurd
conclusion that Arnold didn't use terms like "saucer-like"
until he had been influenced by the press reporting of his
sighting. However, if he had bothered to thoroughly read my
original post, there were two very early cited quotes of
Arnold's in which he used the term "saucer" to describe the
shape. The newspapers picked up the description from him, not
the other way around.

>"They didn't fly like any aircraft I had ever seen before. In
>the first place their echelon formation was backward from that
>practiced by our Air Force. The elevation of the first craft was
>greater than that of the last. They flew in a definite formation
>but erratically. As I described them at the time their flight
>was like speed boats on rough water or similar to the tail of a
>Chinese kite that I once saw blowing in the wind. Or maybe it
>would be best to describe their flight characteristics as very
>similar to a formation of geese, in a rather diagonal chain-like
>line, as if they were linked together. As I put it to newsmen in
>Pendleton, Oregon, they flew like a saucer would if you skipped
>it across the water".

>Which seems to be Arnold's acknowledgement that he did indeed
>attribute this exact characteristic to the objects.

Like I said, if you Brit skeptics would bother to read, I had
that exact quote in my original post. But to repeat, for about
the 100th time, you don't see that description anywhere in the
1947 media, not even in Arnold's surviving radio interview.
Instead he said:

"They looked something like a pie plate that was cut in half
with a sort of a convex triangle in the rear."

And as to motion, Arnold had the following comments:

 " I noticed to the left of me a chain which looked to me like
the tail of a Chinese kite, kind of weaving and going at a
terrific speed across the face of Mt. Rainier. I, at first,
thought they were geese because it flew like geese, but it was
going so fast that I immediately changed my mind and decided it
was a bunch of new jet planes in formation."

"And, they seemed to flip and flash in the sun, just like a
mirror"

"I could see them only plainly when they seemed to tip their
wing..."

"They didn't fly in a conventional formation that's taught in
our army, they seemed to kind of weave in and out right above
the mountaintops, and I would say that they even went down into
the canyons in several instances, oh, probably a hundred feet"

That's Arnold speaking for himself. Nothing there about motion
like saucers skipping on water.

>'Saucer -shaped', alas, they were not.

And here come the British semantic thought police again. A good
proper saucer is always round, and any departure from that
cannot be allowed.

Hey, my mother's set of fancy chinaware has a set of squarish
"saucers" -- no kidding. The archetype may be perfectly
circular, but they don't have to be.

The fact of the matter is, whether you Brit skeptics like it or
not, Arnold _did_ use the terms "saucer-like" and "disk-like" to
describe the shape, meaning it had attributes similar to a
proper English saucer: thin, flat rounded -- all terms he also
used. He was using metaphor to describe an unfamiliar flying
object, trying to make it understandable to others. He pointed
out repeatedly when he elaborated that they weren't fully
rounded in the back, but overall they resembled familiar objects
like saucers, disks, pie-pans, etc., thin, flat, mostly rounded,
etc., etc., etc., etc.

For folks from the the country that invented the English
language, you and Brookesmith have an amazing inability to
comprehend simple English. Sorry, but over here in the Colonies
we are amazed at how dense you guys appear to be.

>Perhaps, as I'm sure you may concur, the most obvious question
>is; realising that Arnold's pivotal 'UFO' sighting was in fact
>of objects which "looked something like a pie plate that was
>cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in the rear",

To which he also used descriptions such as "shaped like a
saucer, "saucer- like," and "like a big, flat disk," whether you
guys like it or not.

>and these were indeed the genesis of what came to be called
>'flying saucers'.. can anyone point us in the direction of a
>comparative observation to what Kenneth Arnold actually
>described?

In 1947, James Rhodes photos over Phoenix on July 7 show similar
shapes: rounded in front, but not in back. The FBI & A.F.
intelligence confiscated the negatives later that month and they
haven't been seen since. Rhodes photos do, however, show up in
later A.F. UFO intelligence reports. The photos we apparently
treated as genuine, though background checks repeated brought up
Rhodes eccentricity.

In Seattle on July 4, Coast Guardsman Frank Ryman, took a photo
of an unknown object, which when blown up showed a slightly oval
shape with something like a small bite taken out of one end.

On the ground in the Cascades, just after Arnold lost sight of
his objects, Fred Johnson, a prospector, reported seeing six
objects: "They were round, but with tails..." In his original
letter he wrote:

"I can say [I] am a prospector and was in the Mt Adams district
on June 24th the day Kenneth Arnold of Boise Idaho claims he saw
a formation of flying disc [sic]. And i saw the same flying
objects at about the same time. Having a telescope with me at
the time i can assure you there are real ...they were Round
about 30 foot in diameter tapering sharply to a point in the
head and in an oval shape.  with a bright top surface. I did not
hear any noise as you would from a plane. But there was an
object in the tail end looked like a big hand of a clock
shifting from side to side like a big magnet. There speed was
far as i know seemed to be greater than anything I ever saw.
Last view I got of the objects they were standing on edge
Banking in a cloud."

Through his telescope, Johnson claimed to have seen detail
Arnold could not have seen from a distance. They were round or
oval-shaped, but tapered to a point in front and had some sort
of oscillating tail. Unfortunately, nobody had Johnson draw a
picture or try to clarify his rather muddied descriptions. But
he was obviously describing something that wasn't perfectly
circular, but which he thought still fit into the category of
"flying disc."

A Project Sign summary of April 23, 1948, described Johnson's
reported shape succinctly as "disc -- appeared to have tail."
(Incident #68). (Johnson's report was repeated as Incident #74
with this description: "Tapered sharply to a point in the front
end.")

Arnold's sightings, Incident #17, was described as "Mirror
bright; approximately circular, no tail"

Incident #23, Boise, Idaho, June 30, 1947, was described as
"Bright and silvery; half circle."

Portland Oregon, July 4, Incidents #5-#9, all policemen except
for #9 (harbor pilot captain): 1 to 5 objects traveling in
single file:

Incident #5: 5 objects, "dipped up and down in oscillating
motion; round"

Incident #6: 3 objects, "following each other; whitish-brown;
disc"

Incident #7: 1 object, "aluminum; disc"

Incidents #8 & 8a: 3 objects, "straight line formation; last
disc fluttered very rapidly in side-way arc; white; disc"

Incident #9: didn't state number; "discs would oscillate and
sometimes a full disc would be visible, then a half moon shape,
then nothing at all; like a shiny chromium hubcap; disc."

The Portland Oregon Journal reported the Portland incidents
thusly on July 5:

"First to report in were Patrolman Walty Lissy and Robert
Ellis... Both World War II veterans and civilian pilots, they
sighted three of the objects within 30 seconds traveling at
great height and speed.... They reported they heard no engine
noises but saw flashes. The objects seemed erratic and changed
direction of flight..." [Incidents #8 & 8a]

"Patrolman Earl Patterson.... A former air corps veteran, he
said he object was unlike any plane he had ever seen. He thought
it appeared to be radio- controlled because the disk could
change direction at a 90-degree angle without difficulty... The
craft seemed to be aluminum or eggshell white and didn't flash
or reflect light." [Incident #7]

"Members of the harbor patrol ...stepped out when they heard the
all car alert, Capt. K. A. Prehn, Harbor Pilot A. T. Austed, and
Patrolman K. C. Hoff all saw the objects and said they appeared
to be going south ... at terrific speed. Capt. Prehn said the
flashes kept them from ascertaining whether there were three or
six. 'The disks would oscillate and sometimes we would see a
full disk, then a half-moon shape, then nothing at all,' he
reported. The objects looked more like a shiny chromium hub cap
off a car which wobbled, disappeared and reappeared. There was a
plane in the sky at the time but all were emphatic that the
disks were not planes." [Incident #9 and #5,6?]

The various descriptions of erratic fluttering, dipping,
oscillating motions of multiple objects traveling in single file
are strikingly similar to Arnold's. Note also the report of how
they could vary in appearance from full disks, to half moon
shape, to disappearing, apparently when viewed edge on. This is
also very similar to Arnold's descriptions. Incident #23 from
Boise also reported a half-moon shape.

Here's a few more.

Muroc Air Field, Calif, June 8:

Incident #2: 1 object; "Aluminum colored surface; thin metallic
object, unconventional shape."

Incident #1c,: 2 objects; "Silvery; saucer-shaped."

Incident #1d: 3 objects; "Reflected the sun's rays; disc."

Incident #1e,, June 8: 3 objects; "Silvery; disc."

Incident #4, Rogers Dry Lake: 1 object; "White aluminum;
distinct oval outline; two projections on upper surface..."

Incidents #21 & #43, Des Moines and Clarion, Iowa, June 29: 18
objects, "Dirty white; between circle and oval -- inverted
saucer."

Incident #29, Bakersfield, Calif., June 23 (pilot Richard
Rankins' sighting): 10 objects, "Almost round"

Incident #22, Spokane, Wash., June 21: Several objects; "Shiny
silvery; slim body."

Incident #82, Oklahoma City, May 17, 1947: 1 object, "Frosty
white; round and flat."

Incident #89, near Kansas City, Kan., July 7, 1947, pilot
sighting: 1 object; "Silvery; round, disc shaped object."

Incident #98, Houston, TX, Nov 2, 1947: 1 object; "Bright light;
almost round, or perhaps oval or saucer-shaped."

For more modern sightings describing Arnold-like shapes (rounded
in front, coming to convex point in back), look at the following
side by side comparison, from none other than James Easton
himself (or his evil twin) only last week:


>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:07:34 -0500
>Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:17:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: New Jersey Sighting & Mysterious Research

J: Long Valley, New Jersey - August 21, 1982, 10:20 p.m.
K: South of San Francisco - September, l974, approx. 9:30 p.m.

>J: It was shaped like a stingray, with wide, rounded wings and a
>bobbed backend.

>K: It had a stingray shape (it was shaped like a stingray fish).
>It was round in front, it had protrusions on each side (like
>small wings) and came to a rounded point in the back.

To which I must add, shades of Kenneth Arnold.


David Rudiak






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                  Australia Wide Skywatch 27-03-99 - Report

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 00:11:10 +1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:16:13 -0500
Subject: Australia Wide Skywatch 27-03-99 - Report


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail  tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian  Research Network Hot Line Number
                       1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************


AUSTRALIA WIDE SKYWATCH

Location: PERTH,  UFORUM

From: Brian Richards
To: tkbnetw@fan.net.au
Subject: Reports and Sky Watch
Date: Monday, 29 March 1999 18:02

Hi Di

The sky watch night didn't give away any secrets. Skies
beautifully clear. No cloud cover. A couple of satellites and
meteors but no anomolies.

Ciao for now
Brian
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Location: CAIRNS, UFORB

Hi Diane
Russell Boundy

We did get a little observing of the sky on Saturday night  but
it was overcast some of the time, and nope!!...nothing to
report.

Best wishes to you for now

Regards  Russell.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Location: Blackheath, Blue Mountains

hi there all.

Up here, Blackheath, Blue Mountains, there was a beautiful moon
with some cloud coverage.  There was no activity other than
that.

Rocio Riveiro
Blue Mountains, Australia

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Location:  SOUTH AUSTRALIA

From: Peter & Lynette Johnson
Subject: Over cast. Skywatch 27th.
Date: Sunday, 28 March 1999 11:45

Well unfortunately the sky last night was
overcast and drizzling. Oh well we
needed the rain.

Reality is God's dream.
Andrew Strieber.

Peter Johnson.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still waiting for VICTORIA to report will pass on ASAP.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Location: BRISBANE,  Queensland
AUFORNW, MUFON & UFOR Qld Inc

We too had a very clear night and a great turnout, 42 adults & 8
children attended  the skywatch and fun was had by all.  But
like you it revealed nothing more than a few planes, shooting
stars, and the odd satellite.

I would like to thank Gordie for entertaining the children and
big kids with his telescope and sharing all his knowledge of the
star's, I'm sure the kids will remember what they saw for a long
time to come "thankyou Gordie"  and also Glennys Mackay of MUFON
for doing a meditation it too was great everyone enjoyed the
relaxation. Thank you Glennys.

A big thank you must go to Peter Johnson for he was the one who
suggested we all do the Australia Wide Skywatch thankyou "Peter
it was a great idea and maybe we should do them every 4 months.


Looking into the heavens is where you will find the truth and if
the truth is out there you will see it one day, take care all
and keep on looking <S>

Regards Diane Harrison

Founder of the Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network Hotline
Australian Skywatch Director







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              Re: MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating

From: Jesus Millan Arias <jesusmillan@mx3.redestb.es>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:48:16 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:21:35 -0500
Subject: Re: MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating


>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:09:09 +0100 (MET)
>Subject: MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating MJ-12
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>The document can be found in "gif"-format at

>http://www.pufori.org/articles/images/paperclip.gif

>and comments at

>http://www.pufori.org/articles/mj12_collins_1949_paperclip_foia.htm

>Thanks to Robert Collins and Jeroen Wierda at Picard UFO
>Research International (PUFORI),

>Stig

>***

>1949 Paperclip FOIA, JIOA Memo No.1412-CIA Mj-12

>by Robert Collins

>Posted with Author's Permission




Hi all,

Sorry my scarce English.

This is the first time I write on this list.

Congratulations for this very high level list about UFOs!

I would want to ask a question: please, could someone states me
exactly who was/were the "Paperclip" scientist related on this
file?. The subject number is: Project 63 (UF-103-M). Could
someone give me more information about it?

Thank you very much,

Jesus Millan Arias

jesusmillan@mx3.redestb.es





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                    Re: 'Alien' Skeleton In MUFON Journal

From: Jimmie L. Holman <holman@holman.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:18:42 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:25:09 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Alien' Skeleton In MUFON Journal


[Non-Subscriber Post]

I would like to correct a couple of possible misconceptions that
have been recently stated both publically and privately.  Josh
should in no way feel any "blame" for creating a controversy ...
but rather be commended for helping bring it further out into
the light for closer and more public examination.

In all fairness, Mr. Goldstein's comment in his previous post,
that I "claimed it was fake" may not be completely correct ...
although at this point, I certainally do believe there is
excellent chance of that and multiple reasons to cast doubt.
Much of that doubt is based particullarily on information I
personally collected and first hand testimony that was directly
provided without modification in the words of those who
specifically were present at the event (including the verbal
comments of the Texas State Director for MUFON).  I own the
photos, negs, and all copyrights to all those photographs and
many others both posted and not on my site.  Additionally ... I
HAVE read the Professors books .. and the quotes indicated in
the narrative furnished, were directly from his book.
Additionally I have in my possession, recorded conversation made
at the MUFON gathering further substanciating my claims.

It might be important to note that I have received, as a result
of that posting, direct criticism (if not downright attacks)
evidentally based largely on inaccurate and (im told) downright
slanderous information now being provided by the local Dallas
mufon.  It was obvious that both persons that I have had
negative contact with since the original posting were both
alledged "Investigators" or represent them self as such with the
local group. (One of which had not seen the artifact or any
documentation, but was basing his opinion, comments, and actions
entirely on hearsay.)  With "personal" attacks like these .. I
certainally understand why persons are reluctant to come
forward.

Even though I have received these few "negative" responses ...
fortunately ... the vast majority of the persons/viewers/readers
were obviously able to see through the problems and understand
the real messages being conveyed.... which was CLEARLY stated on
the very first page. I have received from many MUFON people,
much "thanks" for NOT presenting it in an anti-mufon format ...
which could have been easily done.  They admitted there was
entirely too much embarasement from responsible factions already
for the way it was presented by MUFON headquarters without it
being investigated first.  The facts remain ... there was little
if anything in my article that was NOT available to mufon
investigators PRIOR TO presentation in December.... and
definately in the months that followed. If even a few people
understand the intended and stated messages and we use that
frame of thought to evaluate future and past finds, then the
efforts have been well worth it. The overwelmingly positive
response (and the some 15-20,000 hits per day) encouragingly
suggests that the many persons who heard of this controversy did
at least a bit of FURTHER investigating to find out more on this
issue.

I continue to stand 100% behind each and every comment, claim,
opinion or observation I reported.  I have in my possession even
more substanciation for what has been stated.  If needed ... I
may be making them publically available, however ... it could be
VERY embarassing to MUFON and as I have repeatedly stated ..
that is NOT the purpose or intent unless mufon themselves make
that disclosure necessary.

It would be a wonderful thing if indeed this "find" were proven
to be something legitimate. As I have previously mentioned,
probably few persons were better qualified or in a better
position to document, prove, and publically and responsably
realease said discovery.  We must ask WHY he didn't if it were
truely a genuine find.  We must also ask WHY what documentation
was prepared in a "tounge-in-cheek" book format.  We should
probably ask WHY it was presented with other artifacts MUFON
supposedly admits are creations yet somehow selectively
segragates this as real as opposed to created.  We also must ask
WHERE the elluded to "documentation" and letters are that have
been refered to. ( I would have thought that would be quite
important.)  We should definately ask if there are any financial
motives of the family (as in books and movie deals) involved
with or surrounding the publicity of this or even that of MUFON
in thes times of dwindling membership ... and YES ... even what
I might have to gain (or loose).  Lastly, we must ask, WHY, if
mufon has had accesability to this artifact, have they done
little, if any investigation into this matter. ... Including
addressing or responding to the issues that were brought up in
December of last year. (with the exception of some mispelled
words ... the original post has not really been signifigantly
altered)

I have raised questions and made observations, and have been
personally attacked for that.  Well ... im sure I will survive
that, and "life" will go on.   I find it amusing for Walt's
reported comment that "Jimmie L. Holman had received
misinformation secondhand." could be made.  At best, he mostly
could only have second hand information himself of what source/s
and materials I myself have. I have disclosed my sources to few
others. Any "misinformation" or misdirection I received came
from the MUFON Texas State Director himself ... and because of
the recorded written followups, there was little chance for any
miscommunication unless intentional on the part of MUFON.

With THAT type of supposition and environment ... I truely
wonder if we will ever get from MUFON an unbiased or impartial
report of findings or will be able to truely trust what
information IS finally disclosed.

However ... based on the overwelming positive response ... I
feel that with the obviously many logical minds, and clearly
deductive thinkers, WE .. as a group ... WILL , sooner or later,
make that important responsible "find" and be able to properly
and conclusively share that find with the rest of the world.


Jimmie L. Holman
www.holman.net/ufo/alienskeleton/






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                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 13

From: Masinaigan@aol.com (by way of John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:47:17 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:26:15 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 13

     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 4, Number 13
March 29, 1999
Editor: Joseph Trainor

CROP CIRCLE APPEARS
IN ISRAEL

     On Saturday, March 20, 1999, a "significant crop
formation" was discovered in Betlekhem Hagalili, a village
in the Jezreel Valley about 65 kilometers (32 miles)
north of Jerusalem.
     According to Israeli ufologist Barry Chamish, "The
formation was dumbbell-shaped with two circles of
nine meters diameter, joined by a straight line also
nine meters long and 90 centimeters wide.  Eight
hundred meters away, an 11-meter diameter circle was
found.  The formation was made in a large wheat field,
and the circles were spun counterclockwise."
     "In classic crop formation fashion, the nodes of the
wheat were bent, but the stems were not broken.  Over
70 photos of the crop formation were taken by (Israeli
ufologists) Gil Bar and Shaul Burgman."
     Chamish reported that three crop circles have been
found in the Jezreel Valley during the past year.
     The first was found in Bet Zarzir, a town "barely a
mile" from Betlekhem Hagalili, on April 12, 1998.
     The second was found at Tel Adashim, located
12 kilometers (8 miles) from Bet Zarzir, on October 20,
1998.
     "The circles were found in approximate six-month
cycles," Chamish stated, "The first circle was found on
Passover evening last year, and the latest was left a
week before the beginning of this year's Passover
festival."  (Many thanks to Barry Chamish for this
report.)
(Editor's Comment:  The Jezreel Valley has long been
a mystical hotspot in Israel.  King Saul watched as the
Witch of Endor conjured up the ghost of Samuel there.
Bet Zarzir was also the birthplace of Ahinoam, one of
King David's wives, also known as the Cindy Crawford
of the Tenth Century B.C.  It's in the Bible, notably
First Samuel 25:43; 27:3 and 30:5.)

UFOs SIGHTED IN RURAL
NORTHERN PENNSYLVANIA

     On Monday night, March 15, 1999, several glowing
UFOs were sighted in northern Pennsylvania, mostly
around Smethport (population 1,734) a small town on
Highway 59 about 123 miles (197 kilometers) southeast
of Erie.
     "A woman driving home to Bradford (Pa.) from
Olean, N.Y. looked up to see a blue streak racing across
the sky."
     "Confirmation has come from Doris Ladlee, who was
sitting at Gallico Crossing in Smethport, Mercedes
Schwartz, who lives at the top of Champlin Hill, and
Sandy Bennett of Smethport."
     "Doris tells us she was sitting at the crossroads at
11:31 p.m. when, all of a sudden, 'the car lit up like
broad daylight, and I saw a great big ball of fire.'  A
dazzling array of sparks followed as the object dropped.
She said she was looking eastward at the time, and
the object had a head and a tail like a comet.  There was
no noise.  It appeared to be heading (northeast) towards
Port Allegany (population 2,391) and Eldred (population
869)."
     "'I thought that maybe a plane blew up,'" she added.
     "Her son also saw it a couple of miles to the south.
To him, it looked like a blue streak across the sky--not
a fireball like she had seen."
     "'It looked kind of like a big bright firework, only it was
too high up in the sky to have been that,' Doris reported.
'Everything runs through your mind.  I though, God, I
wonder if someone shot off a missile!  Or maybe two
stars hit together."
     "Mercedes tells us she had just gone to bed and her
room was dark.  ''I saw the large flash.  I thought it might
be helicopters but there was no noise.'"
     "Sandy Bennett said she was driving into Wilcox
(population 1,000) when she saw 'a big round ball.  I think
it had a blue fire thing after it, and then there were sparkles.
It went up real fast, and it wasn't lighting.'"
     Wilcox is on Highway 219 located about 29 miles
(46 kilometers) south of Smethport.  (See the Bradford, Pa.
Era for March 23, 1999.  Many thanks to Scott Corrales,
author of Chupacabras and Other Mysteries, for forwarding
this newspaper report.)

LARGE UFO HOVERS OVER
PAIUTE INDIAN RESERVATION

     On Thursday, March 4, 1999, at night, a motorist
traveling north on Highway 95 near Las Vegas, Nevada
spotted a strange array of lights hovering over the
Paiute Indian Reservation.
     As the car reached a point a quarter-mile
(0.5 kilometers) south of the Ann Road overpass, the
driver "spotted eight very bright lights, 'like the lights of
a stadium,' stationary above the overpass directly
ahead.  As the vehicle continued heading toward the
northwest, the driver realized that the lights were
much further away (than the overpass--J.T.)"
     "They appeared to be hovering 200 to 250 feet
above a low rise in the valley near the Paiute Indian
Reservation, about five to seven miles north of the
Ann Road overpass."
     "The lights were reported to be white in color,
without definition, and in a pattern of four above and
four below, and parallel to the ground.  There were
no navigation lights or movement noted."
     "The observer made a right-hand turn onto
Centennial Parkway, then a left-hand turn onto the
service road which runs alongside Highway 95.
The observer again noted the position of the
lights directly in front of him, but also noticed that
the top row of lights was beginning to become
obscure.  Suddenly, the top row blinked out.
About ten seconds later, the bottom row disappeared,
'like the lights had been turned off.'"
     "The observer also noticed that several other
motorists had pulled off the road, gotten out and
were also looking at the lights."  (Many thanks to
Stig Agermose for this report.)

CYLINDRICAL UFO HOVERS
NEAR A MALL IN GEORGIA

     On Monday, March 22, 1999, at 7:05 p.m.,
salesman Robert H., age 40, and his wife and daughter
were driving "just outside the city limits" of Macon
(population 106,612), a large city on Interstate Highway
I-75 approximately 81 miles (129 kilometers) south
of Atlanta, when the daughter spied a strange gleam
in the sky.
     "It appeared in the northwest sky above a shopping
center," Robert reported. "My daughter spoke of a light
in the west-northwestern sky.  I first thought she was
looking at a vapor trail in the northern sky.  She said that
she saw that, but what she was talking about was off
to the left.  My wife saw it, too."
     Looking in that direction, he added, "What I saw
appeared to be a cylinder in shape positioned up/down
like the letter I.  It was in the west-northwestern sky
brightly lit with the setting sun behind and below it.
There did not appear to be any aircraft, stars or birds
in that area.  We watched it for approximately five to
eight minutes and lost complete sight of it once we
exited the interstate (highway)."  (Many thanks to
Ben Field of BUFOD for forwarding this report.)

TWO UFOs HURTLE OVER
BATESVILLE, MISSISSIPPI

     On Wednesday, March 3, 1999, at 8:45 p.m.,
a resident of Batesville, Miss. spotted two UFOs
"very bright objects about as large as an airplane,"
heading north.
     "The witness first thought they were airplanes,"
reported MUFON Mississippi director J.R. Gillis,
"But as they got closer, he knew they were not planes.
No sound was heard.  The unidentified objects stopped
and hovered for 15 seconds and then took off really
fast.  Total duration of the sighting was one minute,
thirty seconds."
     Batesville (population 6,403) is at the junction of
Mississippi Highways 6 and 51 approxmately 58 miles
(93 kilometers) south of Memphis, Tennessee.
     The case is being investigated by Wayne Morgan,
MUFON assistant state director.  (See Filer's Files #12
for 1999.  Many thanks to J.R. Gillis and George A.
Filer, Eastern director of MUFON, for this report.)

GLOWING UFO SEEN ALONG
NORTH CAROLINA SHORE

     On Tuesday, March 23, 1999, at 7:30 p.m., Jared R.
spotted something strange hurtling across the night
sky in his hometown of Camden, North Carolina
(population 95), a small town on Highway 343
approximately 165 miles (264 kilometers) east of
Raleigh, the state capital.
     "A bright object, traveling left to right across our
field of view, at a descending angle, appeared to be
glowing from friction like an object reentering Earth's
atmosphere," Jared reported.  "Had a vapor trail and
a fire trail, much like a shooting star.  Object moved
much slower than a shooting star and although it
seemed to be burning from friction with the atmosphere,
it never got smaller or burned out."
     "The color was blue-white.  The speed was
comparable to a jet aircraft that might have been
making a low pass.  As it got lower and to our right,
the view was blocked by trees.  It gave the appearance
that it would have been about five to ten miles from
our position, somewhere over Elizabeth City (N.C.)."
(Many thanks to Jim Hickman of Skywatch for
sending in this report.)

UFO SEEN HOVERING OVER
DOWNTOWN TORONTO

     The elusive "downtown Toronto" UFO is back,
and this time it was seen in the early morning hours,
hovering over Dundas Street in Canada's largest city.
     Graham S.D. of Mississauga, Ontario, who spotted
a UFO three weeks earlier, reported that, on Tuesday,
March 23, 1999, at 3:30 a.m., "I had just finished
writing the weekly newsletter for my company.  I went
out on the balcony (The upper-floor apartment overlooks
Toronto harbor--J.T.) to finish a smoke and to watch a
freight train go by.  As I turned and looked back at the
city (Toronto) before I called it quits for the night, there
was the same light as before--orange-white, seeming
like it was spitting out bits of light.  It was, I estimate,
15 degrees above the horizon, and for the life of me it
looked like it was following Dundas Street in a
westwardly direction."
     "It then moved back along Dundas whilst climbing
to about 50 degrees from the horizon.  It then (and
this sounds loopy--Graham) started to elongate.  It
instantly reminded me of something from Star Trek."
     "At this point, the light dulled and seemed to stop
spitting, still in its elongated shape.  It was very bright
going but with no spitting, and literally went straight
up through the cloud layer, and gone."
     Graham reports that this round of multiple UFO
sightings "continues to be an unsettling experience"
for himself and his family.  (Email Interview)

MORE UFO SIGHTINGS
REPORTED IN BRAZIL

     On Saturday, March 6, 1999, at 12:15 a.m., a
brightly luminous UFO appeared over the large
seaport city of Recife, in Pernambuco state,
about 1,200 kilometers (720 miles) north of
Rio de Janeiro.
     Witnesses described the object as "a large
object made up of an opaque blue light, so that it
resembled an object of light.  It made a zigzag at
a tremendous speed, first to the right, then to the
left, and then took off, diminishing in brightness
as it approached the (western) horizon."
     On Saturday night, March 20, 1999, another UFO
overflew Recife, this one described as "a white glowing
object."  Other witnesses, however, reported seeing
"two parallel white lines or streaks" flying over the city.
      In Londrina, the capital of Parana state, located
250 kilometers (150 miles) west of Sao Paulo, an
eyewitness claims to have seen black helicopters in
pursuit of a UFO at 10:30 p.m. on March 11, 1999,
the date of Brazil's recent big electrical blackout.
     As Londrina went dark, Alexandre Novais "stayed
watching the sky from the window of his apartment.
He wanted to see the extent of the blackout."
     He saw strange lights among Londrina's skyscrapers,
but his mother told him they were only helicopters.
Alexandre reported, "I told her that I would go to get my
binoculars, and, at this time, I saw an unusually large
light swiftly cross the sky at a stunning velocity.  But
instead of falling to the ground, it ascended into the
sky."
     The UFO, he stated, was "a strange light that crossed
the sky with a velocity as fast as a shooting star.  It was
very rapid and very strange."
     "Other lights were seen over the city's international
airport," he added, "They were over Brea, a suburb about
8 kilometers (5 miles) from the airport."  (Muito obrigado
ao Euclides da Faria e Thiago Ticchetti por esos casos.)

UFOs SIGHTED IN ITALY AND
NEARBY SARDINIA

     Italy recorded three UFO sightings in various
regions of the country last week.
     On Sunday, March 14, 1999, from 6:30 to
7 p.m., witnesses in Iglesias, a city on the west
coast of Sardinia, spotted "two luminescent
elongated forms that remained motionless in the
sky for nearly half and hour."
    The two UFOs came together once, "forming an
inverted U and disappeared on the horizon seconds
later."
     Iglesias is in Sardinia's Cagliari province about
140 kilometers (84 miles) south of Sassari, the capital.
(See the newspaper La Nuova Sardegna for March 16,
1999.   Grazie a Antonio Cuccu di CISU per questo
rapporto.)
     On Saturday, March 20, 1999, at 8:30 p.m.,
eyewitness Ozzano Emilia "was driving into Castel
San Pietro Termi when he saw a strange glow in the
woods.  He then watched a large light rise into the sky."
He described the UFO as "a dark yellow color."
     On Sunday, March 21, 1999, in the city of Milano
(Milan), "a strange light was seen in the sky by two
people over the suburb of Ripamonti.  The light was
definitely much larger and brighter than a star,
giving off flashes of red, green and yellow light as
it rose into the sky.  It stayed at one point for
several minutes, then (quickly) crossed the sky."
(Grazie a Massimo Marasi e Alfredo Lissoni di
Centro Ufologici Nazionale per questi rapporti.)

DOD SAYS LASER CUP JUST
ARMY TRAINING MANEUVERS

     On Thursday, March 18, 1999, around 3 a.m.,
three squadrons of black helicopters held night
training maneuvers in the mountains just west
of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
     Code-named Exercise Laser Cup, the simulated
combat flight ended with the landing of troops from
the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment
(SOAR) in Aliquippa, Pa. (population 13,374) and
Moon, Pa. (population 1,000), towns on the west
bank of the Ohio River about 25 miles (40 kilometers)
west of Pittsburgh.
     "According to the Army, the choppers were
taking part in a joint Army and Air Force training
maneuver called Exercise Laser Cup.  The name
doesn't mean anything--it's just a random monicker
chosen by computer."
     "Twelve (UH-60) Blackhawk, PAVE LOW and
MH-6 helicopters flew from Youngstown, Ohio to
Lake Lynn, Fayette County (Pennsylvania) where
Special Forces were to practice finding hidden items
near an old mine.  After that, they all flew back to
Youngstown.  Yesterday (March 18) they returned to
their home base at Fort Bragg, North Carolina and
other installations."
     "Walt Sokalski, a civilian spokesman for the
Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg, said the
helicopters flew between 500 and 1,000 feet and were
supposed to avoid the most heavily populated areas."
     But the overflight really frightened the residents
of Beaver and Westmoreland counties, west of
Pittsburgh.  Beaver County 911 received 40 telephone
calls from area residents, while Westmoreland County
911 received about a dozen calls.
     "In the black of a peaceful winter night in the Beaver
County countryside, the first mean machines came
chop-chop-chopping low and loud over Don and
Phyllis Wilfong's house at 3:27 a.m....rattling the
windows and obliterating any hope of sleep."
     "'It sounded like they were landing on the house,'
said Phyllis, 57, of New Sewickley, who bolted up in
bed with Don and the couple's suddenly very alert
Chihuahua.  'It shook everything.  Our house was
shaking.  Our bed was shaking.  I don't know how
anyone couldn't hear that.  I couldn't figure out what
the heck was going on.'"
     As for Beth Nicholson and her husband, Shawn,
"at 3:30 a.m., a group of choppers churned over their
house on Steifel Avenue in Franklin (population 7,329)
Fifty minutes later, another group blasted by.  And 25
minutes after that, another.."
    "'The whole house was vibrating,' said Beth, 'My
husband didn't hear them at first, but I'm a lighter
sleeper than he is.  I said, 'Oh, my goodness!'  I went
over to my spare bedroom and stuck my head out...
That wasn't anything like LifeFlight (a helicopter
ambulance service in Pittsburgh--J.T.).  Their helicopters
fly over here all the time.  This was nothing like that.
I said to Shawn, 'It's like having a war outside.'"
     "'We've been taking calls all morning,' said Capt.
Michael Mastroianni of Penn Township police in
Westmoreland County.  'We don't know who they were.
Needless to say, the military doesn't check in with us.'"
     "Patrolman Corey Ceccarolli was sitting in his
parked cruiser in a Dairy Queen parking lot when the
choppers rumbled overhead at 2:50 a.m.  Shortly
after, residents in Hempfield and Penn called 911."
     Police also received a report of "a low-flying plane"
over Hempfield.
     "'If you're not used to helicopters flying over your
house, it can sound like they're right on top of you.
We apologize for that,' Sokalski said, 'We hadn't
realized the overflight would cause such a reaction.'"
     In the days following Exercise Laser Cup, more
reports of black helicopters came to the fore.
     On Friday, March 26, 1999, Dean Y. reported,
"I live in Holly, Michigan (population 5,595).  Black
helicopters are a common event around here.  Today
I saw one in the Fenton area south of Bishop
International Airport.  It came up from the south
along U.S. Route 23, then turned and headed south
again over Lake Fenton between 11:30 a.m. and noon."
     Holly is 47 miles (75 kilometers) northwest of
Detroit.  (Editor's Comment:  If the Night Stalkers have
been back at Fort Bragg since March 19, who was
flying over Holly on March 26?)
     On Saturday, March 27, 1999, Scott P. reported
that he had heard stories of two underground NATO
bases in Ohio.  One, a subterranean five-acre complex
near Ravenna (population 12,069), a small city on
Route 59 about 16 miles (25 kilometers) east of
Akron.  The other, an underground base with a
brand-new airstrip near Portersville (population 60)
about 30 miles (48 kilometers) south of Zanesville.
     Also on Saturday, Newswatch magazine posted
six color photographs of white UN military vehicles
loaded on a flatbed truck in Port Beaumont, Texas.
The photos, however, are undated.  The closeups
show a typical Humvee painted white with the
black letters UN behind the left front wheel well
and the words Military Police over and behind
the rear side window.  (See the Pittsburgh, Pa.
Post-Gazette for March 19, 1999, "Not ready for
rumble--Sleepers alarmed by helicopter-borne
commandos," by Torsten Ove.  See also the
Lisbon, Ohio Morning Journal for March 19, 1999
and the Trumbull County Vindicator for March 19,
1999.  The Newswatch photos can be seen at
http://www.newswatchmagazine.org/unvehpict/
home.htm.)

from the UFO Files...

1904: UNFORGETTABLE
          WHIPPLE V. PHILLIPS

     Normally this is the kind of article you'd see in
Reader's Digest.  But I doubt the Digest will ever
run an article on a notorious fellow like Whipple
Van Buren Phillips.
     Ol' Whip Phillips died in Providence, Rhode Island
ninety-five years ago, on March 28, 1904.  He's
probably best known as "a prominent Mason" and
as the father of artist Sarah Susan Phillips (1857-1921)
and the grandfather of cosmic horror writer Howard
Phillips Lovecraft (1890-1937).  But if anyone ever writes
the Magickal History of New England, Whipple Van
Buren Phillips will certainly get his very own chapter.
     Whip was born in 1833 in Foster, R.I., a small town
about 25 miles (40 kilometers) northwest of Providence,.
and attended the East Greenwich Academy.  In 1852,
at age 19, Whip traveled to Delavan, Illinois, a town
founded by one of his uncles, James Phillips (1794-1878).
But the upper Midwest wasn't for him, and in 1853, he
returned to Rhode Island, taking the scenic route.  Among
the places he visited were the extensive mound complex
in Cahokia, Illinois, across the Mississippi River from
St. Louis, and Mammoth Cave in southern Kentucky.
     It's no coincidence that H.P. Lovecraft's very first
story, which he wrote as a nine-year-old boy, was set
in Mammoth Cave.  Grandpa Whip told him all about it.
     In 1853, Whip bought a house in the aptly-named
Coffin's Corner section (now Greene village--J.T.) of
Coventry, R.I.  On January 27, 1856, he married a
local girl, Robie Alzada Place (1827-1896) and took
a number of jobs, including teaching elementary
school and managing the local general store.
     In 1876, he moved to Providence, purchased a
house at 276 Broadway and went into the real
estate business.  He made and lost three fortunes,
and whenever he had the cash, he indulged his
esoteric tastes by collecting strange old manuscripts
and visiting prehistoric ruins.
     L. Sprague de Camp wrote, "Whipple Phillips was
a hearty, energetic, enterprising, extroverted man who
had a long and checkered, but on the whole, successful
business career...Whipple Phillips also picked up a
fair degree of culture.  He twice visited Italy and acquired
a taste for Italian art."
     In addition to visiting several Etruscan and Saturnian
sites in Italy, Whip made a side trip to Egypt on his
way home.  And thereby hangs the mystery.
     In the 1920s, H.P. Lovecraft agreed to write a
story entitled "Under the Pyramids" for Farnsworth
Wright, the editor of Weird Tales, the story to be
printed under the byline of the famous escape artist
Harry Houdini.
     It's not one of Lovecraft's better tales (my favorite
is Pickman's Model--J.T.), but it does contain some
startling references to a network of tunnels beneath
the Giza plateau.  Most readers dismissed the
tunnel story as folklore, but then in November 1998,
Dr. Zahi Hawass discovered the vertical shafts
leading to the Tomb of Osiris.
     The unanswered questions: did Whipple Van
Buren Phillips visit the tunnel complex under Giza?
Did he tell his grandson about it before his death
in 1904?  And did Lovecraft incorporate some of
this inside information into the story?
     On a snowy night in February 1904, about a
month before his death, the family heard a queer
hissing and thumping noise coming from the attic
of Whip's opulent home on Benefit Street in
Providence.  Thirteen-year-old Howard asked,
"Hey!  What's that?"
     "Nothing!  Pay it no mind, lad, hear?"
     But Lovecraft was startled by the expression
on his grandfather's face--an expression of stark
terror.
    Of course, he wasn't half as startled as the
Providence undertaker who worked on Whip's
body just after his death...a stroke, they
say...on March 28, 1904.  The undertaker
reported, "I found the grotesque, twisted
expression on the decedent's face to be
quite disconcerting."
    Indeed!  (See H.P. Lovecraft: A Life by S.T.
Joshi, Necronomicon Press, 1996, pages 3 to 6,
and Lovecraft: A Biography by L. Sprague de
Camp, Doubleday and Co., 1975, page 11.)

FUN UFO WEBSITES:
     Readers wanting to check out the new crop
circle in Israel can see it at http://members.
tripod.com/~ufoisrael.
     Don't miss our parent site, UFO INFO, for
the latest in UFO news, photos and features.
Log in at http://ufoinfo.com
     Back issues of UFO Roundup can be
accessed and downloaded from our webpage.
Drop in any time at http://ufoinfo.com/roundup

     That's it for this week.  We'll be back in
seven days with more saucer news from around
the planet, brought to you by "the paper that goes
home--UFO Roundup."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1999 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO Roundup on their websites
or in newsgroups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue in which the item first appeared.







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   Apr > Apr 1

                   The Millennium Report - March 29, 1999

From: Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:53:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:27:53 -0500
Subject: The Millennium Report - March 29, 1999



The Millennium Report
E-Mail Updates from The Millennium Project

March 29, 1999


ISSO; "UFO Samples"; UFO Roundup; Filer's Files;
Forest Rings Update; New Crop Circles in Israel;
Aircraft Needed; Hoaxer Says Crop Circles are Real;
Duck Circles; Europa Ocean Theory; Hydrogen Peroxide
on Europa; HAARP Test Schedule; Bizarre Safari
Experiment; Bouncing iMacs; Y2K, Contrail and Radar
Anomaly Updates; New Web Site Link


Editor:
Paul Anderson

_____________________________


NEWS OF THE WEEK

* International Space Sciences Organization to be
   Officially Launched in May
* Report on Lab Tests of "UFO Samples" from Michael Wolf
* UFO Roundup 4.13 - March 29, 1999
* Filer's Files #12 - March 25, 1999
* Update on "Giant Forest Rings"
* New Crop Circle Formation in Israel
* Aircraft Needed for Crop Circle Research
* Hoaxer Doug Bower Now Claims "Unknown Force"
   Behind Crop Circles
* And Now... Duck Circles!
* Europa Ocean Theory Gets New Twist
* Hydrogen Peroxide Discovered on Europa
* Scheduled HAARP Tests
* Bizarre Experiment Leaves Safari Animals Deformed
* Macintosh "Bounces Back" (Literally!)


SPECIAL RESEARCH PROJECTS

* Y2K: Greatest Danger May be Panic; Glitch Affects
   New Jersey Food Stamps
* Contrails: Analysis - Evidence of 3 Pathogens;
   A Possible Explanation; New Sandia Foam - Connection
   to Contrails?; New Photo from Ontario, Canada;
   Reports from New Jersey, California
* Radar Anomalies: Rings Over Utah, Arkansas and
   Tennessee; Cloud Circles on Radar - Statement from
   Colin Andrews


WEB SITE LINKS

* Links Page Added to Web Site


_____________________________


See the TMP web site for links to these current
news stories and updates, an archive of previous
news and information on other TMP resources:

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


The Millennium Report is the e-mail update service of The
Millennium Project, an independent research organization
initiated in January, 1999 as an alternative source of news
and information to the maintream media. TMP was founded
by future studies researcher Paul Anderson, also director of
Circles Phenomenon Research Canada.

TMR is published weekly or as breaking news develops, with
the latest news, information and web site updates and is
available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from
the mailing list, send your request, including either "subscribe
TMR" or "unsubscribe TMR" and e-mail address to:
psa@direct.ca

TMP welcomes your news leads and submissions.
Forward all correspondence to:

E-Mail:
psa@direct.ca

Tel / Fax:
604.731.8522

Mail:
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC
V6J 1J
Canada

_____________________________


=A9 The Millennium Project, 1999






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   Apr > Apr 1

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:15:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:31:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:13:18 -0500
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Regarding:

>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:26:34 -0500
>>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<snip>

(From Arnold Quote in his book:)

>line, as if they were linked together. As I put it to newsmen in
>Pendleton, Oregon, they flew like a saucer would if you skipped
>it across the water".

(Easton wrote)

>Which seems to be Arnold's acknowledgement that he did indeed
>attribute this exact characteristic to the objects.

>'Saucer -shaped', alas, they were not.

>Perhaps, as I'm sure you may concur, the most obvious question
>is; realising that Arnold's pivotal 'UFO' sighting was in fact
>of objects which "looked something like a pie plate that was
>cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in the rear", and
>these were indeed the genesis of what came to be called
>'flying saucers'.. can anyone point us in the direction of a
>comparative observation to what Kenneth Arnold actually
>described?

Yes.... sort of. Oddly enough a sort of confirmation comes from
the famous Trent photo, #1, which shows a (nearly) elliptical
image. Careful examination of the left side of the (nearly)
elliptical image (need a good blowup) shows that the smoothly
curved elliptical shape which one would expect for a perfectly
circular craft viewed obliquely, is "broken" by 2 short
apparently straight segments that meet forming a dull "point"
just to the right and above (in the picture) the leftmost
portion of the edge of the image. The two (nearly) straight
segments take up roughly 15% of the total circumference
(perimeter) of the "elliptical" image.

I should point out that photo 2 shows that there is a
dissimilarity in the shape of the "superstructure" (flat-topped
"dome") at the left side as compared to the right side. This
dissimilarity is probably correlated with the slightly different
shapes at the right (elliptical) and left (not elliptical)
sides.





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   Apr > Apr 1

             Italian Science Writer wins Keyhoe Journalism Award

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:29:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:34:31 -0500
Subject: Italian Science Writer wins Keyhoe Journalism Award


Daniela Giordano, an Italian science writer of Palermo, Italy
was given the Donald E. Keyhoe Journalism Award by the Fund for
UFO Research for her report on apparent UFOs depictions in
ancient artworks.

The article is now being translated into English, and is
expected to become a Fund publication.  Second prize in the
Keyhoe Award competition  went to Robert Galganski for a
newspaper feature article.  Further details on this and other
Fund news can be found at the Fund's web site:

www.fufor.org






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   Apr > Apr 1

                          Re: Crop Circle Studies?

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:30:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:38:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Crop Circle Studies?


>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:30:43 -0500
>From: Sue Lawrence <NevadaFighter@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Crop Circle Studies?
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Hi List

>Is anyone here aware of any groups that conducted scientific
>tests on all of the Wiltshire formations last year? If so, what
>tests were carried out?

>Thanks, Sue


Hi There,

Why not try checking our Paul Vigay at:

pvigay@cix.compulink.co.uk

Paul has been studying the Crop Circle phenomena for some time,
and has carried out various tests on this subject.

For those interested Paul also has a Journal " Enigma".

Enigma is published four times a year in order to publish the
findings and research notes of The Independent Research Centre
for Unexplained Phenomena. .

For more details you could try Pauls web-site which is:

http://www.interalpha.net/customer/pvigay/circles.html

(I.R.C.U.P.)
Independent Research Centre For Unexplained Phenomena.

To receive monthly up dates on the Crop Circle Phenomena write to:
cropcircles@matrix.clara.net with the subject: Join Crop Circle Mailing
List.


Roy..





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   Apr > Apr 1

                   Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France

From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:53:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:42:27 -0500
Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France


>From: Joaquim Fernandes <j.fernan@esoterica.pt>
>Subject: Re: US GI & UFO Incident in WW1 France
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:13:53 +0000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>It appears that September/October 1917 was a heavy UFO flap
>period. Does anybody have any more UFO incidents from this
>period?

The Public Record Office files in London contain a wealth of
information about UFO-type sightings over the British Isles
during the 1914-1918 period, ranging from mystery lights to
"phantom airships."

Researcher Granville Oldroyd found records of hundreds of
reports to the War Office both from police and Intelligence
Units, which led to an official investigation and a conclusion
that 89 percent of the reported cases could be explained (PRO
Air 1/565/16/15/89: 'Special Report on Aircraft Rumours, 6-7
September 1914).

These sightings were taken so seriously during 1916 that the
Royal Flying Corps even dispatched a pilot, Lieutenant Hucks, to
fly over the Pennine hills of Northern England in a bid to
locate the base it was believed was used by the Zeppelin airship
which was thought to be responsible.

An article I wrote on the 1916-17 sightings was published in UFO
Brigantia some years ago, but the following is a summary of the
material which appeared in a book I co-wrote with Andy Roberts,
Phantoms of the Sky (published by Robert Hale, London, in 1990):

"Strange lights were [also] observed by members of the Royal
Flying Corps defending London from Zeppelin raids on the night
of 31 January 1916, just as many pilots observed similar
unexplained aerial phenomena during the Second World War. On the
night in question, orders were sent to the fighter aerodromes to
the effect that Zeppelins were approaching London. At 7.40pm
Lieutenant RS Maxwell arose from Hainault Farm Aerodrome, near
Romford in Essex. At 8.25 his engine was "...missing irregularly
and it was only by keeping the speed of the machine down to
50mph that I was able to stay at 10,000 feet. It was at this
time that I distinctly saw an artificial light to the north of
me, and at about the same height. I followed this light
northeast for nearly 20 minutes, but it seemed to go slightly
heigher and just as quickly as myself...and I eventually lost it
completely in the clouds." (PRO Air 1/611 16/15/288). "At 8.45
pm another aeroplane, piloted by Flight Sub-Lieutenant JE
Morgan, may have  observed the same UFO after arising from an
aerodrome at Rochford, some twenty-two miles east of Hainault
Farm. Morgan reported [in an official report to the War Office]
that at 5,000 feet he had seen, about a hundred feet away from
his aircraft, 'a row of what appeared to be lighted windows
which looked something like a railway carriage with the blinds
drawn.'  In the belief that he had chanced upon a Zeppelin,
Morgan fired at the object with his Webley Scott pistol,
whereupon "the lights alongside arose rapidly" and disappeared!

"As on that particular night none of the raiding [German]
airships came as far south as Essex, what was it that these two
pilots independently reported in the sky in the same area and at
the same time?"

Unfortunately, Morgan's original report has not been located in
the War Office files from the period, and we have to reply upon
a second hand account of it.

I would be interested to hear from anyone who may have details
of other WW1 era sightings, both in Europe and further afield.





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   Apr > Apr 1

                      Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?

From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:53:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:45:38 -0500
Subject: Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?


>From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:58:03 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>SCHOOLBOY Alex Birch, blamed for hoaxing the world with a
>sensational DIY flying saucer snap 37 years ago, now insists his
>story was true.

Updates readers who are interested in, or following, the saga of
the hoaxed UFO photo from 1962 may be interested to learn that
Alex Birch has now launched his own website to promote his
story.

The site, jointly run with Alex's son Adrian, offers a special
'Birch Package' including the photo, Air Ministry documents
concerning the case, and news cuttings.

The Birches also do a nice line in model UFOs, carved in wood,
and based on the famous Howard Menger photos of the 1950s, and a
range of artwork and other UFO products. The website address is:

www.ufo-images.ndirect.co.uk

Who said you can't make a living out of this subject?





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              Re: MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:08:52 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:49:33 -0500
Subject: Re: MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating


>MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating MJ-12

>From: stig.agermose@get2net.dk
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 02:52:31 +0100 (MET)
>Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:55:27 -0500
>Subject: MUFON Journal: FOIA-Released Doc Designating MJ-12

>The source is "alt.alien.research".

>BTW. The document is NOT one of the alleged MJ-12 documents,
>which have been published by the Woods and Joe Firmage and come
>from an anonymous source, as many of you will know.

>Stig

***

>From: Aaron LeClair <saucer@bellsouth.net>
>Newsgroups: alt.alien.research
>Subject: This months MUFON journal
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:09:52 GMT

>Does any one have any more info (other than hat is given in the
>article, of course) on the cover story of this month's journal?
>It deals with an alledged alien skeleton found in or around
>Aurora Texas. There is a picture of it on the front. Something
>like this should be easy to prove alien or not, why it's taking
>so long, I don't know.

>There is also a article on Majestic 12. It states (in part), The
>hunt for a genuine US Gov. doc. that shows the use of MJ-12 is
>over. The breakthrough comes from the FOIA effort of Tim Cooper.
>his doc. released by the CIA, is from the Paperclip files,
>Record Group 330, JIOA files, released Nov.7, 1985. It is a memo
>from Hillenkoetter on 12 April 49 to the Joint Chiefs of Staff
>(JCS) that, while otherwise unclassified, shows file
>distribution to a CIA Top Secret control file and to MJ-12. This
>is unambiguous evidence that there was such a project. To our
>knowledge this is the first and only FOIA-released doc.
>designating MJ-12. A censor has lined through the distribution
>block, but did not obliterate it. (end of that paragraph).

>Comments, anyone?

My comment is: What FOIA? Where is the FOIA cover letter?

This document originates again with Tim Cooper! I suggest you
go back and read again Tim Good's comments on Tim Cooper's
letters. See:

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/mar/m16-011.shtml

Here is a simple challenge: Supply the rest of the finding
information for this document:

  Records Group:  330,  Entry:
  Description:
  Box Number:

All that information should have been provided on the FOIA!
Instead what do we get?

>From this message we are told:

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/mar/m28-001.shtml

"This is a Nov. 7, 1985 FOIA release related to Paperclip files
that most likely Linda Hunt (author of Secret Agenda, 1991) was
successful in declassifying. She was the head of CNN's
investigative journalism unit and successfully sued for the
release of some 82 boxes now within RG 330 at the National
Archives."

"Tim Cooper later requested, we believe, items from CIA about
PAPERCLIP which resulted in the attached release. There are many
other papers in this release with the same date, Nov, 7, 1985,
and on the same topic."

"Specifically, the document refers to project 63, which Linda
Hunt wrote extensively on in her book. In short, it was an
operation to bring German, Nazi, and unique scientist over to
the US from 1945-1990 for either cost-effectiveness or national
security reasons."

This is the best we can do after two years of extensive
research? In fact the investigators are not even sure if it
indeed comes from a FOIA!  "Tim Cooper later, we believe...."
Why is the investigators don't know?  Before placing yet another
MJ-12 document before us without established origin, perhaps a
little checking would be in order?  Yet again, another MJ-12
document without established provenance!


--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA





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   Apr > Apr 1

                                 BAR 199903

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:09:18 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:53:49 -0500
Subject: BAR 199903

Bufo Calvin<BR>
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596<BR>
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com<BR>
Website: <A HREF<P>ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce=
 or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that=
 attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good=
 etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you=
 forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).</P>

March, 1999 (Vol. 2, #3)

Books mentioned in BAR can be ordered on most e-mail systems by clicking on
the hyperlink title. This will take you to the book at Amazon.com. You can
read more about it at that point and decide if you want to order it. If you
do, you add it to your "shopping cart". Then, if you want another title
mentioned here, please click on it in this post. If you have questions,=
 please
e-mail Bufo at <A HREF=3D"mailto:bufocalvin@aol.com">BufoCalvin@aol.com</A>.
Books are also available by phone from Greenleaf Publications at
1-800-905-UFOs (1-800-905-8367). If you call, please be sure to tell them=
 that
Bufo sent you.

If you have books to recommend, please let me know. If you would like to be
named as recommending it, include that information as well and tell me you
would like to be cited.

In this issue: Featured Title; Recent Arrivals; and Things to Come:

FEATURED TITLE:

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809237962/bufosweirdworld=
">
Passport to Magonia (paperback)</A>
Subtitle: On UFOs, Folklore, and Parallel Worlds
by Jacques Vallee
Originally published: 1969
Reprint edition

In the anomalistics field, good books change people's ideas: great books
change their minds.

Prior to the publication of PASSPORT TO MAGONIA in 1969, pro-UFO studies
largely argued that "genuine UFO sightings" (which can be defined as
competent, rational people honestly reporting observations of airborne=
 objects
that are apparently unknown to society) were evidence of extraterrestrial
visitation. While the conceptual palette had been expanded to include the=
 idea
that what had been interpreted in the past as having been supernatural could
have been misinterpreted extraterrestrials (in particular, with Barry
Downing's
<A=
 HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=3D1569247455/bufosweirdworld=
A/">
The Bible and Flying Saucers</A>), the reverse was considered almost=
 heretical
within the UFO "community"

Jacques Vallee himself, a computer scientist, had written two books (neither
of which can be ordered currently ordered), ANATOMY OF A PHENOMENON (1966)=
 and
CHALLENGE TO SCIENCE (1967) which had tentatively supported the
extraterrestrial hypothesis and gotten some respect from traditional
scientists. If he had stopped there, he would have been seen as a great
validator for those who believed that aliens got into physical space craft=
 on
another planet and flew to Earth.

Vallee didn't stop. True scientists and other truth seekers know: the more=
 you
know, the more you know there is to know. While the Condon Committee was
preparing its huge, government-funded report (which is also sadly not
available to be ordered) that would "debunk" UFOs, Vallee was doing some
lateral thinking. As he puts it in his personal journal (reproduced in
<A=
 HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=3D1569248087/bufosweirdworld=
A/">
Forbidden Science : Journals 1957-1969</A>),

"I see that we cannot hope to understand UFOs with the methods of physics=
 and
statistics alone. We are facing a form of intelligence that cannot simply be
tracked with radars and cameras. It was already here before science was
invented; it will still be here when science becomes superseded to other=
 ways
of gaining knowledge."

That doesn't mean that the book (or Vallee) had rejected objective thinking
for subjective. It examines, in some ways similarly to C.G. Jung's
<A=
 HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=3D1567311210/bufosweirdworld=
A/">
Flying Saucers (Jung)</A>, the beliefs around the observations. There is,
according to the book, certainly a mystery. The ways in which it parallels
previous mysteries are in themselves mysterious (when people report things
about UFO occupants, those characteristics may match those of fairies, for
example=85presumably without the reporter knowing the fairy=
 characteristics).
The book's ideas, arrived at rationally, seemed irrational to many. Vallee
moved away from the comfortable (for many believers) into the uncomfortable.=


Yet, those believers couldn't reject the work. While it cast doubt on their
pet theory, it supported the reality of the phenomenon on which it was=
 based.
The appendix, A CENTURY OF UFO LANDINGS (1868-1968), which was longer than=
 the
rest of the book, was and still is often cited by supporters of the
extraterrestrial hypothesis. It is often so referenced while ignoring=
 Vallee's
emphatic warning about the nature of the evidence.

While there are thousands of books on UFOs, few are as important as this=
 one.
It contributed to a rift between European researchers and the ETH-proponents
in the USA. It made possible the presentation of evidence that didn't=
 conform
to expectations. Above all, it said this: while observation is limited,
inquiry is boundless.

RECENT ARRIVALS:

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0340730641/bufosweirdworld=
">
Ghosts: a Beginner's Guide (paperback)</A>
by Teresa Moorley
June 1999 (available now)

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380806037/bufosweirdworld=
">
Project Moon Dust (paperback)</A>
Subtitle: Beyond Roswell--Exposing the Government's Continuing Covert UFO
Investigations and Cover-Ups
by Kevin D. Randle
June 1999 (available now by special order)

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0713727551/bufosweirdworld=
">
The Psychic Casebook (paperback)</A>
Subtitle: Real Encounters with the Paranormal
by Craig Hamilton Parker
May 1999 (available now)

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0713727330/bufosweirdworld=
">
UFO Revelation (paperback)</A>
Subtitle: The Secret Technology Exposed?
By Tim Matthews
May 1999 (available now)

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0713727462/bufosweirdworld=
">
The World of the Unexplained (Bord) (hardback)</A>
Subtitle: An Illustrated Guide to the Paranormal
by Janet and Colin Bord
May 1999 (available now)
The Bords are among my favorite authors (along with being nice people)

THINGS TO COME

These books have not yet been released, but I anticipate them being=
 important,
popular and/or interesting. Why wait until they come out and have to=
 remember
to get them then? You can pre-order now, and whenever they are released, get
them per Amazon's policies.

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684856026/bufosweirdworld=
">
Cryptozoology A to Z (paperback)</A>
Subtitle: The Encyclopedia of Loch Monsters, Sasquatch, Chupacabras, and=
 Other
Authentic Mysteries of Nature
by Loren Coleman and Jerome Clark
July 1999
Order this now! If you are like me, you are going to want to see it as soon=
 as
it is available. In the years since they did CREATURES OF THE OUTER EDGE
together (which I really enjoyed), both have grown in stature and skill.
Clark's
<A=
 HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=3D1578590299/bufosweirdworld=
A/">
The UFO Book: Encyclopedia of the Extraterrestrial</A>, which I'm currently
reading cover to cover, is one of the best (and best-valued) reference books
ever. Coleman makes it a double whammy this year with his recently-released=

<A=
 HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380802635/bufosweirdworld">=
Th
e Field Guide to Bigfoot, Yeti, and Other Mystery Primates Worldwide </A>,
written with Patrick Huyghe, another leading Fortean. I hope to make that=
 one
a feature title after I've read it.

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1854792814/bufosweirdworld=
">
Arthur C. Clarke's Mysteries (paperback)</A>
by John Fairley, Simon Welfare, and Arthur C. Clarke
December 1998
Welfare is the Producer of the Arthur C. Clarke series that run on the
Discovery Channel in the U.S..  I have two previous books by Welfare and
Fairley, based on the series, and both were well-worth having (particularly
for the rare photographs, although the writing was good as well).  This one
not being available yet may be due to it being an import.  I'd definitely
order it this way=85whenever it gets here, you'll know.

<A=
 HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0609604619/bufosweirdworld">=
In
the Spirit (hardback)</A>
Subtitle: Conversations With the Spirit of Jerry Garcia
by Wendy Weir
June 1999
I guess you can put this on the shelf with
<A=
 HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=3D0935699007/bufosweirdworld=
A/">
Peace at Last: The After-Death Experiences of John Lennon</A>.

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0609802232/bufosweirdworld=
">
The Mars Mystery (paperback)</A>
Subtitle: The Secret Connection Between Earth and the Red Planet
by Graham Hancock
June 1999
Hancock is a popular figure with the alternative history crowd.

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1577310977/bufosweirdworld=
">
Miracles of the Mind (paperback)</A>
Subtitle: Exploring Nonlocal Consciousness and Spiritual Healing
by Russell Targ and Jane Katra
June 1999
Targ is a respected parapsychologist..

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1567181554/bufosweirdworld=
">
Reality Is Just an Illusion (paperback)</A>
Subtitle: The World of Shamans, Ghosts and Spirit Guides
by Chuck Coburn
June 1999
Coburn (
<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0916108120/bufosweirdworld=
">
Funny You Should Say That (paperback)</A>) has a real following

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312867085/bufosweirdworld=
">
The Abduction Enigma (hardback)</A>
Subtitle: An Investigation of the Alien Abduction Phenomenon
by Kevin D. Randle, William P. Cone and Russ Estes
May 1999
Randle is one of the prime investigators of Roswell

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0806520957/bufosweirdworld=
">
The Psychic Yellow Pages (paperback)</A>
The Psychic Yellow Pages : The Very Best Psychics, Card Readers, Mediums,
Astrologers, and Numerologists
by Hans Holzer, Ph.D.
May 1999
The venerable Holzer ought to know=85

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1567182216/bufosweirdworld=
">
UFOs Over Topanga Canyon (paperback)</A>
Subtitle: Eyewitness Accounts of the California Sightings
by Preston Dennett
May 1999
Dennett is becoming one of the ufologist/authors to watch

<A HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0440234875/bufosweirdworld=
">
The Uninvited (Pope) (paperback)</A>
Subtitle: An Expose of the Alien Abduction Phenomenon
by Nick Pope
April 1999
Stateside paperback publication of this book by a British military "UFO=
 guy".
This one deals with abductions

____________________________
*Prices are set by Amazon.com. Clicking on the link will take you to their
current listing and show the current price.
____________________________


____________________________ <BR>

*Prices are set by Amazon.com. Clicking on the link will take you to their=
 current listing and show the current price. <BR>
____________________________ <BR>

This is Bufo saying, "If =EErything____________________________ <BR>
You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly=
 redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by=
 e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to=
 Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if=
 there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is=
 Tuesday, the week before. <BR>
_____________________________ <BR>






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   Apr > Apr 1

               Re: Accident At Gesundt's UFO Research - Group

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:06:43 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:53:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Accident At Gesundt's UFO Research - Group


>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:58:06 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Accident At Gesundt's UFO Research - Group Needs Donations

Hi Jim, I am very sad at your great loss

>Hello, we are sorry to inform you of a serious accident which
>occured early this afternoon, at Gesundt's UFO Research and
>Discount House of Freshly Made Wine, Cheese and Publishing...

<Huge unkind snip of a great many words of true piety>

>All donations over $100 will be appreciated with a free car wash
>at any of our many FCHFBCW locations near you.  And while you're
>there, turn on your radios, put your hands _on_ your radios, and
>feel the power of Gripple come thru the speakers.

>Gesundt loves each and every one of yous.

>Gesundt

In the true British fashion of generosity I donate to your
unworthy, sorry most worthy cause one LARGE, and I do mean
large, bag of good will for you to offer as a raffle prize on
the tombola stall in the fete that you are bound to organise
money raising purposes.

I wish you and Dr Gesundt all the very best of sour grapes. :-)
--

    In an infinite universe infinitely anything is possible.
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
            UFO page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/





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                          Re: Sighting in Sao Paulo

From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:36:39 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:59:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Sighting in Sao Paulo


De: SOCEX - Sociedade de Estudos Extraterrestres <socex@zaz.com.br>
Para: Ufobras <Ufobraz@onelist.com>
Data: Segunda-feira, 29 de Mar=E7o de 1999 23:46
Assunto: [Ufobraz] Ocorr=EAncia


>From: SOCEX - Sociedade de Estudos Extraterrestres <socex@zaz.com.br>



Sighting in Sao Paulo, Brazil.
e-mail interview.

In the Sunday dawn, March 21st, 1999, I was with my husband and
my son in my backyard of my house, in the district of Butant=E3,
west zone of the State of S=E3o Paulo, because the night was very
hot.

Around 12:30AM., me son call ours attention for a red light that
he was seeing. At the first moment I thought tha it was tha
planet Mars, that was very visible that night, but he insisted
that the light was a little bit highier than the planet.

Looking better I saw a point formed by 4 red lights, in a
cross-shape. The lights did not blink, they were very closed,
and the red was very intense.

The "object" was stopped, apparently, at a very high altitude So
after 10 minutes stopped the "object" started to move in the
west direction, a straight line at a constant velocity.

Two of the four lights turned off, made a turn and started to
rotate by his own axis.

Again begun a straight line, but now descending, and stopped in
a anlge of 45 degrees, always rotating. Then went to the
southwest.

The intesity of the light remained always the same".


This e-mail reported by Mrs. Denise to the UFOBRAZ List
made by:


THIAGO LUIZ TICCHETTI
Diretor Do Departamento de Publica=E7=E3o e Tradu=E7=E3o Especializadas
(DEPTE - EBE-ET/Brasilia-Brasil)
Director of the Publication Department and Specialized Translation
ICQ - 35119615





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   Apr > Apr 1

                  Famous Siberian Actress/Model Saw Aliens

From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:21:09 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:07:31 -0500
Subject: Famous Siberian Actress/Model Saw Aliens


On the BBC News 24 programme Wednesday 31st march 1999.
On the programme 'Hard Talk'.

The guest, Maria Fontane exclaimed during the interview that she
encountered extra terrestrials with her mother when she was 12
years old.

She went on to describe how the sky was lit up with various
different colors and later on she heard and "saw a noise"

On that she was cut short by the presenter who changed the
subject.

She has her own jewlery collection in the shops and has worked
with Woody Allan, has met Mick Jagger/Kevin Costner Etc.

Comment what this means I have no idea and it would be not right
to offer up any other comment than that... Just reporting it as
it has been broadcast.

Max Burns





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   Apr > Apr 1

                             Blather: Fiery Sky

From: Daev Walsh - Blather <daev@blather.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:12:25 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:28:45 -0500
Subject: Blather: Fiery Sky

______________________________________________________
B  L  A  T  H  E  R

p a r a n o r m a l   p r o v o c a t e u r i s m

By Dave (daev) Walsh daev@blather.net
Web: http://www.blather.net
_______________________________________________________
March 31st 1999, Dublin, Ireland   Vol 2. No. 40
_______________________________________________________

The Strobe is a modern day digital space communications vehicle
hovering over the lands of great knowledge, inspiration and
fear. The Strobe lets you in on the secrets of the unknown,
takes you to places of light and darkness, but above all
entertains you. Where mainstream media fears to tread, The
Strobe probes...

http://www.thestrobe.com
______________________________________________________

Lily O'Briens is a manufacturer of premium handmade chocolates located
in the heart of County Kildare in the Emerald Green Island of Ireland.

Surf along to their website and feast your eyes - and order via our
secure server!

http://www.lilyobriens.ie/
______________________________________________________




On Thursday March 18, Blather received an email from an Edel
Chadwick:

'I was driving across the bog (ostensibly a road)... between
Borrisokane, Co. Tipperary and Cloghan, Co. Offaly. Anyone who
knows that road will know it is unrelieved flat bog. It was
Saturday March 6 at about 11.30pm. I saw what I presume to be a
meteorological phenomenon... it was a very clear dry night,
cold. I saw what looked like a very large shooting star, comet
type thing, about 10 times larger than the comet that was
visible last year. It moved through the sky extremely quickly
but not for a very long distance (similar to shooting star)...
it was a very vivid green. It lasted a second or two and
vanished... ideas?'

Oddly enough, we do have a few. Firstly though, we shall take
the pedantic liberty of discussing any confusion surrounding
'meteorology', which is 'the study of the processes and
phenomena of the atmosphere, especially as a means of
forecasting the weather'. The phenomenon described by Ms.
Chadwick probably did involve the Earth's atmosphere, but as a
meteor (or bolide), a relatively small body of matter which
becomes incandescent on contact with the Earth's atmosphere,
brightening into a fireball. It may burn up entirely, or if
sufficiently large to survive its burning, may fall to earth as
a solid meteorite. While this sighting was most likely a meteor,
we as yet are unaware as to whether or not it came down
anywhere. Despite the plethora of scaremongering documentaries
that have recently graced our TV screens, telling us of the
Earth's potential devastation from collisions with heavenly
bodies, we're so far unaware of the total destruction of any
Irish centre of population in recent weeks.

Blather, you see, was already aware of the March 6 fireball. A
couple of days after March 6, Blather had received an email from
the erudite David Moore of Astronomy Ireland, also editor of
*Astronomy & Space* magazine, who had been on Djouce Mountain
(727m, 2385ft, near the east coast, in Co. Wicklow, about 160km,
100 miles east of Ms. Chadwick's sighting) on the night in
question. David told us that 'there was a brilliant fireball on
Saturday night at 10:50pm. (I) saw the ground light up myself
from Djouce mountain where we were using telescopes... it
happened in the north'. Another witness had also contacted
Astronomy Ireland's hotline, from Tuam in Co. Galway. Word has
it that Astronomy Ireland intend to investigate further.

Blather finds the apparent discrepancy in time rather curious -
Edel Chadwick recorded her sighting as having taken place at
11:30pm. David Moore and Astronomy Ireland recorded theirs at
10:50pm. Has someone made a mistake, or were there *two* huge
fireballs over Ireland that night?


Another odd little report of recent times comes from the
keyboard of Brian Lynchehan, who was in the crowds at O'Connell
Bridge, in the centre of Dublin, on the evening of Saturday 13th
March, awaiting the gigantic fireworks display to mark the
opening of the St. Patrick's day celebrations (apparently some 6
tonnes of fireworks were used). Several hundred thousand people
lined the keys for the display, which was set to start at 8pm.
In fact, this Blatherskite braved the crowds and *was also* at
O'Connell Bridge that evening, while two colleagues of Blather
were atop two of the tallest buildings in the area. Neither we
nor they reported anything untoward.

Mr. Lynchehan writes:

'Hopefully I'm not the only person to have seen this: between
19:30 and 20:00 (I'm not sure the exact time) I saw a light
moving above the crowd on O'Connell Bridge. I was on the Bridge,
it was directly above us. It was EXTREMELY faint, so I don't
think that it was a plane, as even at a great distance, planes
are usually quite visible, and have more than one coloured
light. This was white. The light was also moving quite quickly.
When I first saw it, it was moving westerly (against the flow of
the Liffey), but was curving around southwards. There were 2
low-flying helicopters that night, but [were] rather obviously
helicopters. I'm not saying that I saw an extraterrestrial
craft, I'm saying that I saw a light, and that if it was a plane
at EXTREMELY high altitudes, was extremely manoeuvrable (i.e.
the further an object, the slower it appears to move. This made
a 30 degree turn in about 2-3 minutes, much too fast for an
airplane that's a great distance away). The only way to describe
the level of intensity of the light is just within the level
needed for the human eye to see it. It was quite difficult to
see due to being extremely faint. If anyone else saw this, I'd
like to know.'

He adds: 'If you come across an explanation for it, even better!
(mundane explanations happily accepted).'


As stated, *we* noticed nothing that night - doesn't mean it
wasn't there. However we admire Brian's approach, as he doesn't
fall prey to automatically equating UFOs with craft of an
extraterrestrial origin (longtime suffers of Blather will be
well used to our somewhat caustic opinions on such matters). We
can confirm (twas hard to miss 'em) the two choppers circling
the city centre - at least one belonged to the Gardai (police),
while the other may have been a TV camera helicopter (we're
unsure of this detail). But as for other lights in the sky
*before* the fireworks? We didn't see a thing. If any other
readers were around that night, be sure to share your
(non)experiences with us...

Dave (daev) Walsh
31st March 1999
daev@blather.net

______________________________________________________
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Reporting on UFOs, psychic phenomena, ghosts and hauntings,
mystery animals, and other mystical experiences since 1948.
To subscribe, call 1-800-728-2730 (U.S.) or visit
http://www.fatemag.com
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NiceOne provides access to over 4,000 Irish Websites
supporting Irish products & Services on the World Wide Web.
(http://www.niceone.com)
_______________________________________________________

SPONSORSHIP:
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always willing to talk to interested parties with regard to
sponsorship.
Contact: daev@blather.net
_______________________________________________________

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_______________________________________________________


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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 1

                Gesundt and Gripple, The Rest, Of The Story!

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:10:43 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:32:49 -0500
Subject: Gesundt and Gripple, The Rest, Of The Story!


It is becoming widely known that the sky over Canal Street has
been a hot bed of UFO activity since April 17, 1998, when the
rat poison manufacturing plant closed, only to be resurrected as
the Canal Street Gripple Works, as it is locally known.

Gripple, for those few of you who are not familiar with it, is
Fresh Wine made from Grape Juice and Ripple.  Sublimely fresh,
sublimely refreshing and sublimely but subtly inebriating,
Gripple has since been reincarnated as Gripple with Vitamin G,
Gripple with anatomically correct blow up dolls (Julio Iglsesias
and Pia Zadora, he made them), Gripple Dripple and Gripple
Dripple con and sin gas.

The newest Gripple product has been banned in Boston due to the
dirty hallucinations caused when drunk alone.  Which is what
most people do because drinking it in public causes complete and
total personal embarrassment.  Just aks Gesundt... who is
originally from the Bronks, hence, "aks!"

To get back to the point... the founder of Gripple, one Dr.
Jaime Gesundt, has, like that cheese person, Fromage, devoted
much of his fortune to UFO research.  Not to be outdone by that
"Cheese Upstart," as gesundt calls Fromage, Dr. Gesundt has also
established a freshly made cheesery and a brand spanking new
publishing operation, exclusively devoted entirely to UFO
matters.

During the past three to five months, local residents of the
Canal Street area have been noticing strange and anomalous
lights hovering over and around the Gripple Works.  The problem
has been that these local residents have not been believed by
the authorities for some time, as they are homeless inebriants,
living off the fumes from the Gripple Works. Police and the
Mayor's office personnel have had numerous reports of red,
orange and purple lights and loud and very strange "hiccoughing"
type sounds seemingly coming from hundreds of feet above the
Gripple Works.

The Mayor, Rudolph Jooliani, also known as Za Furor, chose to
ignore the reports, until one night last week when the Mayor
himself witnessed these exact same lights and hiccoughing sound
coming from directly above Gracie Mansion.  The Furer
immediately called out the New York City private Mayoral Secret
Police, also known as the NYCity Gestapo, and ordered the lights
and sounds shot out of the sky with exactly 41 bullets.  It is
estimated that only 19 hit the object, because the Gestapo had
been Grippling when they were awakened from their bunker in the
heart of the city.

During the ensuing investigation, it was discovered that Gripple
was being distributed to aliens from the planet Mongo (Santa
Maria!) by Dr. Gesundt. As a result of this illegal activity,
Dr. Gesundt had been incarcerated by the secret police and held
in communicado. Gesundt has been likened to John Ford and
Hurricane Rubin Carter, by his UFO following.

To make matters worse, the aliens originally used Gripple in
order to calm the human abductees, but began to drink it
themselves, transdermally, if course.  This has caused numerous
errors in their abductions, such as Jammies placed on backwards,
panties, bras, athletic supporters and other personal
paraphernalia, either placed on backwards, or not at all and
sometimes, male stuff placed on females, and vice versa.

So the alien supervisors have banned the use of Gripple on all
interstellar cruisers and abduction sport models, indefinitely!
With business down from such events, and the war in Yugo SanGria
raging, not to mention the price of labor for all that grape
stomping (I told you not to mention that), costs to manufacture
this slop have skyrocketed.

Destitute, broke, failing health (he's addicted to Gripple like
you wouldn't believe) Gesundt even spilled grits on his Tandy
1000TX computer and has steadfastly refused to use any other
machine.  Were it not for the benefits of Gripple (it has
lithium in it) Gesundt would have mainlined Gripple a long time
ago and of course, this would have ended his life within
minutes.

This bulletin is brought to you by the makers of Gripple Too, a
new product by Gesundt, believed by many to be the salvation of
the Gripple Works and make enough money to free Gesundt from the
Mayor's clutches.

Gesundt has aksed me to tell you that he needs nothing except a
little Gripple to keep him going, and to tell you all that he
loves you. Except that Cheese upstart, Fromage, beCAUSe Fromage
never even sent a greeting card, let alone the hunnert grand
needed to spring the little Jewish Vintner.

Actually he's not Jewish, he's Sicilian... much the same except
the dialect is a little different.  Not to be offended, I too,
am Sicilian, which is why Jooiani agreed to my visit to Gesundt.
In fact, since learning that Gesundt was "one of us," Jooliani
melted like fresh cheese on hot Gripple and sprung Gesundt for
the holidays.

So to the Mayor, A Zissen Passoch _or_ Happy Easter, depending
on your mood.

Thank you for listening to my story and don't forget to support
Gesundt with cash money.  It'll go a long way toward helping
abductees all over the world since Gesundt's newest research
project is an anti-abduction brew which will blow your mind.

Last, the winner of the Latin Translation contest is Mayor
Rudolph Jooliani, who will receive a ligfetime supply of Gripple
and Julio Iglesias blow up dolls, anatomically correct... (don't
aks).  The Mayor was able to translate the following Latin...

Lucit bene derdego
hunnert busis enero
honomo, demis trux!

The Mayor was the only one to get it right....

"Lookit, Benny, der day go.
Hunnert buses, in a row!
Oh no Mo, dem is trucks!

Thank you your honor and remember,

Gesundt loves you.





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 1

                              Sprites and UFOs

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:48:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:23:34 -0500
Subject: Sprites and UFOs


Hi everyone.

In recent years science has accepted ball lightning as a real
natural phenomena and even rocks falling from the sky (and
possibly from Mars too) as fact. More recently, certain red
lights observed in the sky, often by farmers and pilots, are now
also accepted as real and known as "red sprites". Below is an
article which shows just how frequent these red sprites are.

In an earlier post to UFO UpDates in March 1997, I suggested
that red sprites, the related "blue jets", the flying saucer
shaped "ELVES" and other similar natural phenomena may even
account for some of the unusual UFO sightings made from the
Space Shuttle while flying over the Earth's nightside.

Nick Balaskas

---

March 30, 1999
AGU RELEASE NO. 99-10
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
AGU Contact: Harvey Leifert
(202) 939-3212 hleifert@agu.org

Joint release with the University of Massachusetts
UMass Contact: Elizabeth Luciano - (413) 545-2989 -
luciano@journ.umass.edu

Radio signals help scientists trace lightning-associated
"sprites"

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- For the first time, engineers and scientists
have a reliable estimate of the number of "sprites" spawned by a
single thunderstorm. Sprites, luminous red glows that are the
high-altitude companions of some lightning strikes, are the
focus of a new study by Steven Reising of the University of
Massachusetts and Umran Inan and Timothy Bell of Stanford
University in California. The team's findings appear in the
April 1 issue of Geophysical Research Letters (GRL), published
by the American Geophysical Union. The research was funded by
NASA, the U.S. Air Force, and the National Science Foundation.

Sprites accompany roughly one in every 200 lightning strikes.
Studied primarily since 1994, they tower up to 55 miles above
thunderclouds, occurring simultaneously with lightning strikes.
Sprites can be seen with the naked eye, sometimes from as far
away as 400 miles. They are electrical phenomena that appear
above thunderclouds, reaching the lower ionosphere. These
striated, glowing ribbons appear at several-minute intervals
above all the major landmasses of the Earth, according to
Reising.

"I really enjoy this field because it's so newly discovered,"
said Reising."Sprites only began to be studied in detail about
five years ago. It's remarkable that a phenomenon that's existed
during all of human history essentially went unnoticed for such
a long time." He added that for many decades, airline pilots
reported seeing sprites, but were met with skepticism. "The
pilots were vindicated," he said. Reising, an engineering
professor who works with the University of Massachusetts
Microwave Remote Sensing Laboratory, is embarking on an
extension of the research using new portable radars to study the
interior structure of clouds.

In the GRL paper, the researchers focus on a thunderstorm that
occurred on August 1, 1996, in western Kansas, above which 98
sprites were observed in a 90-minute period. The team recorded
the sprites on videotape, along with the radio signals emitted
by each lightning strike. For each visible sprite, they examined
the corresponding radio wave measurements, using custom-designed
antennas and receivers. Researchers found that the lightning
strikes that produce sprites also tend to carry a distinctive
radio signature. The radio signals the team "read" were emitted
by the lightning itself, rather than by its companion sprite.
The information gleaned in the study may have a bearing on
climate monitoring and atmospheric chemistry, Reising said.

"This marks the first time that independent measurements not
requiring video have been used to estimate the number of sprites
produced by a single thunderstorm," said Reising. A typical
lightning strike occurs in one-tenth of a millisecond, but those
associated with sprites emit a much longer-lived electrical
current. "These electrical currents last for at least several
milliseconds. In a relative sense, that's quite a long period of
time, and radio measurements can easily tell the difference. We
can't rely on video alone to count all the sprites, because many
times, sprites are visually blocked by the clouds," he said.
Also, it would be nearly impossible, and extremely costly, to
video-monitor every thunderstorm in the hemisphere, or around
the world.

Sprites do not interfere with spacecraft launches, aircraft, or
telecommunications satellites, Reising said. However, there is
some concern in the scientific community regarding chemical
changes that sprites could potentially produce in the
atmosphere. But in order to address that issue, scientists first
need a reliable estimate of how many sprites actually occur.
Another application of the same lightning monitoring technique
would be the monitoring of rainfall in remote areas.

"Using four relatively low-cost receivers, you can count the
number of lightning strikes and sprites in the Western
hemisphere, 24 hours a day, and at very low cost. A storm in
Brazil could be monitored by stations in California and
Antarctica," said Reising. "You can do this from 12,000
kilometers away--a quarter of the way around the world."






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 1

                     Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:10:55 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:40:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy


>From: Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc <mbalien@tin.it>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Michael Wolf's Samples
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:47:52 +0100

>Michael Wolf is right
>by Adriano Forgione (Italy)


>I must say that the two above laboratories are extremely
>specialized: the first, being the Chemical Department of the
>University of Pisa, whose director is Corrado Malanga,

Well, not exactly so.

Corrado Malanga is not, and has never been, "director" of the
Chemical Department of the University of Pisa. He is (has always
been) just a "researcher" there. Anybody may check on the Pisa
University website.

Shouldn't we add that he's been a UFO buff of the alien kind
since he was a teenager (nothing bad in that: I've been, too),
as well as a member of the council of the UFO organization
Centro Ufologico Nazionale (CUN) since 1979 through 1998, when
he chose to leave because his own "new age" ideas have become
much too far out even for that group?

BTW, at that same time two other prominent members of the CUN
council resigned together wiht him and have since promoted a new
organization called International Federation for Advanced
Studies ("a name, a guarantee"): Salvatore Marcelletti and
Maurizio Baiata, who has been (and still is) the editor (as well
as the publisher, 50% with Roberto Pinotti) of commercial CUN
magazine, "Notiziario UFO" ; i.e. the same mag Adriano Forgione
(who also resigned from CUN) is editor-in-chief of, BTW.

>Maurizio Baiata and myself wish that the analysis be conducted
>most secretely and that even the laboratories would not know the
>origin of the samples, neither what Wolf had told us.

You'd have us believe that you gave your pal Corrado Malanga
those allegedly alien fragments without even telling him what it
was and where they came from? Mmmmh! Wasn't a report of your
visit at Wolf's published in the magazine "Notiziario UFO"?
Didn't it report you were given those fragments to analyze? Isn't
Corrado the "scientific coordinator" for that same mag?

>Curiously enough, the results of the two different laboratories
>reached us on the same day of Bill Hamilton's report.

The three of them the same day, independently from each other?
_that_ is X-Files-like synchronicity ("twice may be a
coincidence, thrice is an enemy action": was it Goldfinger or
James Bond who said that?).

>They are
>opposed to Sims' results and match entirely with Wolf's
>statements.

Bingo! You mean that now Corrado may add another medal to his
collection: "tougher than Derril Sims"? Did he still need that?

Corrado Malanga is author of a book about an Italian abductee,
where he (Malanga) has some very wild claims about what the
motives and acts of alien invaders would be; but his most
interesting discovery therein is the fact that you can easily
tell whether an hypnotized abductee is telling truth or lie by
giving him the command to raise either the right or the left
arm.

He was also co-author (with his former friend, and present
commercial partner, Roberto Pinotti of CUN fame) of another book
where BVM (Beloved Virgin Mary) apparitions are credited to
aliens, too. The most amusing chapter was when he mounted a
complex comparison of a ring-shaped light-in-the-sky
video-recorded in Crosia with the shape of Ken Arnold's first
saucer (not to tell of the analogies in the dates of those two
sightings), plus a reflection on the poligonal opening of the
central hole, which was only due to the limits of the home
computer he used to do picture "analysis" (not to mention that
the ring-shape was just the effect of the movie camera internal
reflections, as many subsequent cases all around the world have
shown).

He's also been the oft-quoted source of claims that his chemical
analysis of the ill-famed Santilli's "alien autopsy" film did
confirm it was really dated 1947 (and Corrado was one of the
very first to see it, going on public record to tell he thought
those aliens were akin to birds, since an "egg" had been found
inside SUE's belly).

And we're still waiting for his promised analyses _showing_ the
ET origin of some alien implants: yes, Virginia, once again
"Italians do it better", and that may well answer that naive
question by:

>Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:11:33 EST

>If Mr. Wolf had some samples of evidence that could possibly be
>related to extraterrestrial craft/beings wouldn't it be the
>logic to hand carry these items to someone "BIG". Like Sandia
>Labs, Lawrence Livermore, I don't know, Boston University, Yale
>which is less than 30 minutes from Hartford. Why would he send
>it all the way to Italy and another one to Bill Hamilton.

No wonder Corrado might have confirmed any "ET" nature of any
0.0+% of anything: since 1984, he's been claiming the Ubatuba
fragments were positively shown to contain non-terrestrial
isotopes. Didn't you ever read that in the known literature
about that case? You hadn't asked Malanga (whom also publicly
said that J. Vallee had intentionally "lost" the only remaining
Ubatuba sample).

In 1988 he refused accepting our (CISU's) conclusion that a
given ground trace case was probably a hoax (we found the
torches and the Public Health Office found oil traces in the
ground), because the three burned circles were consistent with
such famous reports as George Adamski's and he could find
nothing relevant there (well, he arrived on place after the
owner had irrigated the whole field).

A more detailed (yet largely incomplete) UFO curriculum of
Corrado Malanga, should also include such gems as:

- "we now know exactly how aliens can pass through walls";

- the recent discovery of the new physics principles used by
alien spacecrafts;

- his disdain for American abduction researchers, whose
experience he claimed to have reached and surpassed;

- his lurid attack against Peter Sturrock because his
"committee" chose to ignore precisely the "hard data" (crop
circles, abductions, implants) showing "undoubtedly" UFOs are
but alien spaceships; since Sturrock claimed there is no proof
UFOs are precisely what Malanga firmly believe, Corrado's
suggested a clear-cut aut-aut: either Sturrock is a stupid or he
is a member of the worldwide coverup. But Malanga's conclusion
was unequivocally the second option: Sturrock acted in a hurry,
fearing that the "real" UFO research by (guess it?) the Italians
of CUN (that is: Malanga) might have outed the "hoax" UFO
research by Americans ufologists and lead some hidden truths to
public revelation. (It was published as such in Pinotti's and
Baiata's "Notiziario UFO", september 1998 issue. But if you
can't read Italian, you would lose more than half of the
delight, which consists in his lyric prose.)

As you see, he's sort of "renaissance scientist", not only
offering his chemical analyst abilities to ufology, but also
posing as a expert in photo computer, hypnosis, physics,
psychology and whatever you may need.

Anyway, he can hardly be regarded as an uncommitted, unbiased
scientist examining (and confirming) alien evidence in a "double
blind" laboratory test.

>Last August, Paola Harris and myself visited doctor Wolf in his
>flat in Connecticut and spent two days with him, having the
>chance to verify his degrees and credentials.

I feel confident that you did "verify his degrees and
credentials" with a greater accuracy than Malanga's ones.

Just for the record.

Best regards






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   Apr > Apr 1

                Firmage: Anti-Gravity Craft And Alien Contact

From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:01:52 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:43:36 -0500
Subject: Firmage: Anti-Gravity Craft And Alien Contact


http://www.washingtonpost.com:80/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-03/31/175l-033199-idx.ht=
ml

"The gravity breakthrough is merely a harbinger of the really
huge development, the paradigm-shattering event to end all
paradigm-shattering events. We will make contact with . . . the
Visitors. We're talking formal contact here, actual direct
communication, no more cat-and-mouse games in the desert. No
more coverup. We will know the aliens and discover, finally, our
place in the cosmos."

...

The CEO From Cyberspace: Joe Firmage, A Master of the Universe
at 28, Wants to Defy Gravity and Visit the Far Corners Of His
Realm

By Joel Achenbach Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, March
31, 1999;  Page C01

LOS GATOS, Calif. - The prophet speeds through Silicon Valley in
a red Corvette convertible, up Highway 17 to Highway 85 to
Highway 101. Joe Firmage is racing to the offices of USWeb/CKS.
He started the company three years ago in a moment of
inspiration, and it now has a market value of $2.5 billion. Joe
Firmage, at the age of 28, is a winner.

Another red Corvette whizzes by. Another young businessman,
going faster. This is a Darwinian world -- speed is of the
essence.

Firmage soon arrives at his office building, which is like every
high-tech office for miles around, so new it's barely had time
to experience the phenomenon of rain. Firmage rides an elevator,
goes through double doors and strides down a clean, carpeted
hallway past secretaries and staffers, everyone tapping on
keyboards and talking on the phone. They're all engaged in an
extremely profitable pursuit that didn't even exist a few years
ago. USWeb/CKS provides "Internet services." The people here set
up "e-commerce" sites and "intranets" and "extranets" for other
companies. Firmage says proudly, "We are probably the single
largest concentration of Internet experts in the world."

He used to be the ultimate boss here, the CEO. Now he's just a
consultant, the resident prophet in the corner office.

He devotes himself to his mission. His mission is "The Truth."

That's the title of his book, which is posted on the Internet at
www.thewordistruth.org. Joe Firmage believes he has found The
Truth, and he is using all his entrepreneurial skill to
disseminate that truth to the world at large.

In a single month, his Web site received 6 million hits. He's
placed a full- page ad in USA Today. He is about to be profiled
in Wired and Rolling Stone. The local papers have followed his
recent moves. He's a hot topic in certain Internet chat rooms --
a sudden silicon celebrity.

The Truth according to Firmage is that the world is about to
change dramatically. Of course that's what every visionary says.
In these millennial times, there are futurists and big talkers
crawling all over California and the rest of the planet. Firmage
knows he has to speak louder than others to be heard over the
background static. Thus his assertion that human beings are
about to master the force of gravity.

We will learn to engineer the very fabric of "space-time." We'll
tap into a massive, hidden energy source. Aspects of nature that
everyone has always taken for granted -- like this annoying
thing called "inertia" -- will enter the realm of human
manipulation. We'll zip around the planet in a flash. We'll zoom
across the entire galaxy -- really fast!

"You could go to Alpha Centauri and be back for dinner," Firmage
says.

And there's more! The gravity breakthrough is merely a harbinger
of the really huge development, the paradigm-shattering event to
end all paradigm-shattering events. We will make contact with .
. . the Visitors. We're talking formal contact here, actual
direct communication, no more cat-and-mouse games in the desert.
No more coverup. We will know the aliens and discover, finally,
our place in the cosmos.

That's "The Truth."

Whether he's right or wrong -- brilliant or boneheaded --
Firmage is clearly a creature of his time and place. The
temptation is to prop him up as a Generation X figurehead, and
the press has been unable to resist the urge to call him the Fox
Mulder of Silicon Valley. A better way to look at the situation
is to say that he's the Internet in human form.

He's the human search engine. He is a nexus for provocative and
questionable information. From his corner office, he can tap on
the computer and dart through an unofficial and unauthorized
world of knowledge and rumor. He can amass, as he swivels in his
chair, his own personal database of facts and theories. To
listen to Firmage is to hear of the Casimir effect and
zero-point energy and Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and
quantum foam and the Roswell incident and the MJ-12 documents.
Science, pseudo-science, truth and fiction, God and
electromagnetism: It's all there, a thick and pungent stew.

He would like the world to think that someone has come along,
someone intelligent and bold and most of all spiritual, who can
make sense of it all. He would be the man who reconciled science
and religion, who legitimized the UFO mythology and who figured
out the future, even though it meant abandoning his wildly
lucrative career as an Internet guru. As he told a local paper,
"I chose to basically take the risk for everybody's sake and put
my own career on the line."

But another story line is in play -- that what works in Silicon
Valley does not always work in the real world. That here's a
case of someone who couldn't separate the good information from
the bad. That with enough hubris, even Joe Firmage, so young and
smart and clever and rich, might find a way to make a fool of
himself.

THE PATH

Firmage is polite and personable, but when he gets rolling, his
fervor builds. He puts the tractor beam on his listener and
doesn't let go. There are moments when his eyes appear sad, and
weary, as though affected by the tedium of explaining things
that should be obvious.

He says things like:

"The macro picture here is anthropological in dimension."

Firmage resides in a million-dollar house in Los Gatos that
shows little evidence of a human occupant. There's a pool table
just off the kitchen (he is quite good at billiards, he says)
and a laptop on the counter with, by Firmage's estimate, 2,000
unanswered e-mail messages. He says he typically works 15 hours
a day and does not have the "bandwidth" at the moment to get
married or have a permanent relationship.

Firmage is the descendant, through many generations, of another
bold searcher, Brigham Young. Young led the Mormons to Utah
after the murder of the prophet Joseph Smith. Firmage grew up in
a Mormon household in Salt Lake City.

When he was 10 years old, his father, a law professor, insisted
that he watch Carl Sagan's PBS series "Cosmos." Young Joe found
it transformational. He became fascinated by astronomy. In his
back yard, he took pictures of the heavens with a camera
attached to a telescope.

In his bedroom, he tinkered with computers. One day he tried to
write a software program on a Macintosh, and found the job
laborious. He had to dive down into the deepest structure of the
Mac's brain. This is too hard, he told himself. Suddenly he had
an idea. He'd make this simpler for everyone. He designed a set
of software tools that could be used by anyone to write a
program. He formed a company, Serius Corp., based in his
bedroom. He stayed up late at night, shrink-wrapping boxes of
Serius software.

His invention was a hit. Although he went on to the University
of Utah, studying physics, he didn't stay long. Firmage had
found his calling: computer world entrepreneur.

People with money were looking for computer whizzes. Investors
gave him millions of dollars, the business expanded, and soon
Firmage had 45 employees in a fancy office. Novell Corp. came
along in 1993, waving $24 million. The huge company bought
Serius and made Firmage a vice president. He was 23 years old
and a millionaire.

Two years later, in the fall of 1995, he quit Novell, and with a
colleague, Toby Corey, he started USWeb. Firmage's new, big idea
was that corporations all over the world were befuddled by the
Internet and needed smart people to guide them through the wilds
of this new medium. USWeb wouldn't make products, it would
provide services. The company bought out more than three dozen
other firms. Firmage was a winner yet again.

He's not shy of touting his intellectual skills and professional
successes.

"I could have done anything in this industry."

"We did something far more challenging than Yahoo or
Amazon.com."

"People describe me as incredibly rational, very left-brained,
highly attuned to risk management, all the qualities that make a
good CEO."

The rule in Silicon Valley is adapt or die. To be slow, to cling
to tradition, to fail to envision the next big thing, is to
ensure extinction. By the fall of 1997, Firmage and his partners
were ready to take USWeb public, a move that required a frenzy
of activity in preparing the initial public offering (IPO).

He was exhausted. But he decided to surf the Internet.

He'd always been interested in astronomy, physics, UFOs, stuff
like that. As a teenager, UFO stories had intrigued him, but
he'd concluded that there was no way the flying saucers, or
whatever they were, could cross the immense distances of
interstellar space.

But on this day he found something. It was a research paper by a
man named Bernhard Haisch.

Haisch, as it happens, is a physicist who works just up the road
from Firmage, at Lockheed Martin. He's also the editor of the
Journal of Scientific Exploration, which often carries articles
about UFOs.

The Haisch paper discussed something called the "zero-point
field." This is a theoretical field of energy that permeates
everything, even the "empty" spaces of the universe. Haisch
asserts that what gives a piece of matter its "mass" is an
electromagnetic reaction with this zero-point field. The theory
is abstruse in the extreme. But if Haisch is right, then mass
can, in theory, be modified and engineered. Something as
seemingly fundamental as inertia might be subject to
cancellation. There are implications for faster-than-light
travel and spaceships that require no fuel, all sorts of
fabulous notions.

Firmage was captivated by the Haisch paper and its implications.
If humans could modify mass, inertia, space-time, then so could
. . . the Visitors. Firmage took a printout home and stayed up
late reading. He finally set his alarm for 6:10 a.m. and went to
sleep.

Morning arrived. The alarm rang. He hit the snooze button.

"The next nine minute snooze changed the course of my life," he
writes.

Without warning, a "remarkable being clothed in brilliant white
light" appeared above him, hovering over the bed.

"Why have you called me here?" the entity asked.

Firmage, half awake and half asleep, said, "I want to travel in
space."

"Why should you be granted such an opportunity?" said the
entity.

"Because I'm willing to die for it," Firmage said.

And then an electric blue sphere emerged from the being and
entered Firmage.

"Instantly, I was overcome by the most unimaginable ecstasy I
have ever experienced, a pleasure vastly beyond orgasm."

After that, he began writing furiously. He became intellectually
hyper-linked to all kinds of new and imponderable theories. He
tunneled deep into the world of UFOs. He claims he has had
private conversations with some of the top military leaders in
America, who have confided that aliens are real. He won't say
who these leaders are.

Firmage now believes that aliens get interested in a planet when
the most intelligent species on that planet learns how to
control gravity. The aliens couldn't possibly stand around doing
nothing while humans, so raw and unfinished a species, began
racing across the galaxy like teenagers on spring break.

Firmage says he'd love to be in a leadership position if formal
contact with the aliens begins -- if, for example, "two years
from now, we had a craft hovering over Times Square, or landing
in the middle of the Super Bowl."

All roads in the Firmage universe lead to UFOs. For Firmage, the
visions reported by prophets and religious figures -- including
Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon faith -- are strikingly
reminiscent of modern encounters with aliens.

As Firmage journeyed deeper -- and after he began anonymously
posting pieces of "The Truth" on a Web site called Project
Kairos -- his position within his own company became
problematic. Corey, his partner, says he was sympathetic to
Firmage's position on UFOs. "There appears to be a number of
data points that appear to come from a lot of credible people,"
Corey says.

Nonetheless, some members of the company's board were
uncomfortable with Firmage's new passion, particularly after he
went public with his beliefs in November. There were clients who
were appalled that the head of the company was espousing views
normally associated with crackpots. USWeb's stock price began to
slip. The company had merged with a firm called CKS, and it was
a sensitive moment. Any sign of weakness can be fatal in the
computer industry. Firmage had already planned to step down as
CEO, making way for an older executive, but it became clear that
he had to hurry up the transition. He became the chief
strategist. Eventually, even that seemed too lofty a title for
someone with his beliefs, and he became a mere consultant.

His next step will be to print 100,000 copies of "The Truth" as
an elegant hardback, self-published, he says, so he'll have
total editorial control. This summer he'll embark on a 20-city
book tour. He won't do ordinary book signings but will speak, he
vows, in auditoriums and other large venues. He's thinking
big all the way.

THE SEARCH

And what does Bernhard Haisch, the man behind the zero-point
field, think of Joe Firmage?

"He's way out there."

He thinks Firmage is smart and wishes him luck. Haisch is open
to anomalies, UFOs, government conspiracies. But he's also a
scientist, and he knows that his theories about the zero-point
field are nowhere close to being verified.

Moreover, a scientist would never write something called "The
Truth." A scientist might write "The Theory." To approach the
level of a truth, a theory must be tested, vigorously and should
have the potential to be falsified. That's one of the many
problems with the UFO mythology. Covert entities can't be
disproved. Nor can secret government conspiracies.

Haisch says, "Because he's not a scientist, and because of his
youth and his success, he's probably not applying as stringent a
filter as he might."

Aliens in UFOs don't survive the violent jostling they receive
when they pass through the filters of most scientists. Among
those who rejected the idea that aliens have visited our planet
was Firmage's hero, Carl Sagan. Firmage knows that. He has an
explanation: "Sagan was not aware of zero-point physics."

The professional UFO debunker Philip Klass says of Firmage, "In
terms of establishing or proving that we have ET visitors, he
adds nothing."

Many scientists note that there is not a single scrap of metal
that appears extraterrestrial in any laboratory analysis. "Why
doesn't anyone come into my office with an ashtray or a radio
knob from one of these things?" asks Seth Shostak, an astronomer
at the SETI Institute, which conducts radio searches for signals
from extraterrestrial civilizations, and which is loath to be
associated with UFOs.

Firmage admits that 80 percent of UFO stories are nonsense. But
there is truth out there on the fringes, he insists. The entire
cosmos has characteristics of being conscious, Firmage believes.
We are spiritual beings coming to terms with the meaning of our
existence. We will someday lose our appetite for material
possessions. What we will value are experiences -- like
traveling in space.

He imagines what that would be like. In "The Truth," he writes:

As you ascend through the clouds, piercing beyond the lung of
your world, a silence strikes every sense of your soul. Your
gaze shifts from the blue light below, and you look up. A black
blacker than sudden blindness hits your senses, or rather
doesn't, as your eyes adjust to the silent night of heaven. And
ever so gracefully, the campfires of the Cosmos begin to sparkle
. . .

This is an age of searchers, of people who would figure out
everything, the future, the significance of human history, the
thinking of the gods. The Internet explodes with information
that almost makes sense. Firmage believes in himself, and
assumes that his instincts are right. His instincts tell him
that change is nigh. We will understand what is happening. We
will know the secrets of cosmic intelligence.

"Imagine one day we could plug our Internet into theirs," he
says. "That would be cool."

If he's right, he'll be vindicated. No one will mock the UFO CEO
anymore. On the day of unambiguous alien contact, he will be
undeniably credible. A winner once again.

But what if he's wrong?

"If I go down, I'll take this belief system with me."

Another bold declaration, but perhaps his least plausible
assertion. The aliens are durable creatures. They were here in
spirit before Joe Firmage, and they will be here in spirit when
he is gone.

=A9 Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company

____________________________________

Keeping you informed with the latest UFO and alternative News:
UFOSEEK... For the Source! http://www.ufoseek.org
Mirror Site: http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/






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   Apr > Apr 1

                     Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:41:22 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:49:20 -0500
Subject: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?


Hello Folks!

We gather from a credible yet unnamable source that ill-famed
so-called "alien autopsy" cameraman, aka "Jack Barnett", died
recently for a cancer.

As you probably know, some Italian ufologists have long been
closely associated with Ray Santilli, the man who started it all
by supposedly buying the footage directly from J.B.  Such
Italian people have been among the very first allowed to see ALL
THREE footages (the still-undiffused "first" one, the publicly
known "second" one and the "tent" one), not to mention that they
were also given copy of THEM ALL and even allowed to have the
"tent footage" sold in commercial video-cassettes. They were
also given some of the very few film samples to analyze.

You will also probably remember that the true identity of J.B.
have always been kept undisclosed by Ray Santilli, except to
some very close associates of his, to the point that Philip
Mantle could only have J.B. call him on the phone through Ray's
intervention, and the "Japanese" video-interview could only be
arranged through Mr Santilli himself. Indeed, Ray told a few
people some different versions about the true identity of Jack
Barnett, but at least two of his confidents felt (and told they
were) pretty sure they had finally got the real data and knew
exactly who he was and where he lived.

Well, the news has been circulating around them in the last few
days that J.B. is now dead.

Of course, I can neither check nor confirm such news (or better:
rumour).

I was also informed that "those in the know" would promptly and
firmly deny that, if asked, though I cannot imagine why.

From my viewpoint, Jack Barnett's death would only be of benefit
to Ray Santilli and to his fellows and supporters, expecially
now that new doubts are surfacing abouth the truthfullness of
the story.

Indeed:

1) either J.B. has always been a non-existent person, conceived
out of fantasy; telling that he's now dead would then close
forever any hope to get to the assumed source of the footage and
let Ray the one and only "mouth of truth" about it all;

2) or J.B. was the real 'McCoy', and his death would put any
further attempt to trace him (and to have the whole story told
by his own mouth) to an end, to the same consequence of above.

Anyway, those still engaged in an effort to get to the truth may
put a stone upon that way.

R.I.P., "Jack Barnett". Your 'Alien Autopsy' never will, and
your ghost will haunt us - forever.






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   Apr > Apr 1

                        Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX

From: John Majhor <johnnym@idirect.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:48:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:59:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX


>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:43:30 +0000
>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>Subject: Art Bell Banning and UNIX


>On 3-25-1999 Art Bell has had his webmaster Keith Rowland block
>Art Bell, Richard C. Hoagland of the Enterprise Mission, and
>Rowland himself their domains from my domain at montana.com thus
>rendering these people's web sites blocked from viewing from
>myself and several thousand other western Montanans.

>This is in response from my dissent toward their propagation of
>lies and fear mongering and misrepresenting NASA. This is a
>fearsome act of censorship on this new medium of global union
>called the Internet, attempted by Art Bell.

>The act is a failure, however. Using UNIX commands I have full
>access to each of the websites in question, thus, I can continue
>to dissent at will. I will continue to do so in greater fury
>now. This act was stupid on Rowland-Bell-Hoagland's part since
>all it does is 'punish' (a welcome reprieve?) a whole brace of
>fellow Montanans that may not know how to access Internet
>servers and their sites via UNIX.

<snip>

>What in the world are these people attempting to hide from??
>Bell has his radio show, 20 million listeners, the Jacor
>Enterprise Entertainment Juggarnaut, Peter Gersten and CAUS as a
>good attorney in defense, Hoagland having mild heart problems
>for distractions, etc. et al.

>I have a keyboard.


This loser is one of the prime reasons the entire UFO Community
is taken as a haven for idiots and loonies by many people who
have little or no knowledge of the community's pursuit of the
truth.

This is actionable behavior which calls into question his
ability to function in a logical, intelligent manner in proving
his own claims. Artbell's site has been hacked, but it appears
to be by Serbian Militant hackers,  not "RAM" Stephens.

Richard's site is operational as is Keith's.

Dissent is one thing. Sabotage and threats are another.

Such a sad case.

JM





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   Apr > Apr 1

                        Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX

From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:50:32 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:57:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX


>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:43:30 +0000
>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>Subject: Art Bell Banning and UNIX


>On 3-25-1999 Art Bell has had his webmaster Keith Rowland block
>Art Bell, Richard C. Hoagland of the Enterprise Mission, and
>Rowland himself their domains from my domain at montana.com thus
>rendering these people's web sites blocked from viewing from
>myself and several thousand other western Montanans.

>This is in response from my dissent toward their propagation of
>lies and fear mongering and misrepresenting NASA. This is a
>fearsome act of censorship on this new medium of global union
>called the Internet, attempted by Art Bell.

>The act is a failure, however. Using UNIX commands I have full
>access to each of the websites in question, thus, I can continue
>to dissent at will. I will continue to do so in greater fury
>now. This act was stupid on Rowland-Bell-Hoagland's part since
>all it does is 'punish' (a welcome reprieve?) a whole brace of
>fellow Montanans that may not know how to access Internet
>servers and their sites via UNIX.

<snip>

>What in the world are these people attempting to hide from??
>Bell has his radio show, 20 million listeners, the Jacor
>Enterprise Entertainment Juggarnaut, Peter Gersten and CAUS as a
>good attorney in defense, Hoagland having mild heart problems
>for distractions, etc. et al.

>I have a keyboard.


When will this fake SEAL/fake NASA insider just dry up and go
away? One would think that most people would be fed up with his
pathological tantrums and unintelligible ravings by now.  The
man is a kook, plain and simple.

I personally don't like suffering fools, as there are much
better things to do with one's valuable time.

Obviously, this lurking fake has a lot of free time on his
hands.

*****************************************************************
"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government?
When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory.
The federal government is our servant, not our master!"

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep
and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
against tyranny in government."

--- Thomas Jefferson
*****************************************************************





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   Apr > Apr 1

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:13:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:59:31 -0500
Subject: Re:  Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:57:27 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>I think the argument about discrepancies in Arnold's
>descriptions of the objects' shapes is rather nitpicking, when
>it is admitted that he had trouble describing something unusual
>which took him by surprise and which he had difficulty seeing or
>at least discerning detail ("so thin I could barely see them").

>That said, I am nevertheless bothered by the fact that no one
>else in the 1947 flap ever saw objects shaped like Arnold's,
>with only one possible exception (a suspected hoax apparently).

---

This is a repost of some material I provided in line with this
thread on the P1947 list:

---

Here are some things I'd offer in regard to this sighting and
the description of the object.

A number of factors may (speculation follows) have come into
play with regard to shape and aspect ratio of the objects as
seen by Arnold.

1) The objects were highly reflective (according to Arnold) and
their reflectivity was specular. Therefore the objects would
tend to reflect some portion of their surroundings as an image.
This would tend to alter the apparent shape at various
attitudes. For instance, the upper surface at most angles would
tend to reflect the sky. Note that the side view sketch shows
the objects as flattest on top, which is consistent with this
expected appearance as seen from the side. While we don't have a
course for Arnold's aircraft, he states that the objects were
traveling on a heading of 170 degrees. If Arnold were traveling
perpendicular to this course (which is a SSE course), he would
be heading ENE, which, at that hour of the day, would place the
sun behind him and perhaps to his left.  Therefore the object
when it tilted toward him was not propagating a glancing
reflection, but was likely to be actually reflecting the image
of the sun. The sky around the sun would tend to be brighter
than the sun at the opposite point of the sky, thus the image of
the sky reflected by the object when it was not directly
reflecting the sun would be brighter than the background sky.
This would make the plan shape of the object fairly visible in
comparision to the profile. Why? Because seen from profile, the
bottom of the object would partly reflect the snow below, and
partly the sky around the object. The upper surface of the
object would reflect the sky. I would suggest that this could
tend to make the object look unusually thin. Indeed, Arnold
reports "When these objects were flying straight and level, they
were just a black thin line, and when they flipped was the only
time I could get a judgement as to their size." This is, again,
what might be expected of a highly reflective, specular object,
possibly with a classic dark or gapped rim, reflecting sky from
the top and a snow and or rock surface from part of the bottom.

2) Arnold does not indicate that the objects ever tilted
directly toward him. He states "as two or three of them every
few seconds would dip or change their course slightly, just
enough for the sun to strike them at an angle that reflected
brightly on my plane" and "they... swerved in and out of the
high mountain peaks". He also states in the comment to his
sketch "of course, when the sun reflected from one or two or
three of these units they appeared to be completely round". The
sun angle being fairly high at that date and time, it is
unlikely that the tilt was more than, say 30 degrees (an
analysis or simulation could be done to make these figures more
complete), because that would carry the solar reflection past
the top of the object. Arnold states they would tilt "just
enough for the sun to strike them at an angle that reflected
brightly on my plane", implying that the object did not continue
to tilt past the sun image. In any event, it is clear that his
plan view of the object represents an interpolation based on a
relatively narrow range of tilt by the object. In addition,
Arnold was looking for a tail and wings. He states that he
expected these were aircraft, and should have wings and a tail.
Thus, given potentially confusing reflections from
high-specularity object, perhaps it is not surprising he was
willing to offer a sketch which contained a suggestion of
features he expected to see but could not find. At this late
date, it would be difficult to be sure.

In conclusion, I believe that the description provided by Arnold
seems consistent with the lighting environment at the time of
the sighting, the reported surface characteristics of the
object, and what we might expect from the observational powers
of an individual with good eyesight on a clear day. Indeed, the
portrayal of the objects as having a thin aspect ratio with a
slight bulge near the center of the bottom is consistent with a
little known characteristic of the reflection of the ground from
a disk-shaped reflective object. The edges, but not the center,
of such an object tend to reflect the sky - the center reflects
the ground. It is unlikely that Arnold would have known this.
Perhaps this adds even more credibility to his description.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo.htm





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   Apr > Apr 1

                         Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:31:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:07:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples


>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:10:51 -0700
>From: Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research <iufor@frii.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

>One of the mysteries about UFOs is the way they have always
>appeared to have technology that is just barely ahead of our
>own, and seemingly of a nature that is straight ahead on the
>path that our own development will take us in a few years.
>Airships in the 1800's before we had 'em -- but not long before.
>When we had propeller driven airplanes, UFOs could manage a few
>hundred miles an hour; enough to keep out of the way, but not
>blindingly fast. When we got jets, UFOs got faster too. When we
>went supersonic, UFOs started flying like a streak of sh**. So
>what is their level of technology, really? Are they just barely
>keeping ahead of us? Hardly seems likely to most people. But why
>hold back to match the current level of human development? No
>good reason for that either, unless they're trying to teach us
>something.

I can't say that the data supports this. UFOs have travelled at
a variety of measured or estimated speeds throughout history,
and with no special relation to human technology.

Here are some older high speed cases which contradict the quoted
assertion:

9
Nov. 12, 1887 2400
A huge sphere of fire was observed rising out of
the ocean by witnesses aboard the "Siberian. " It
rose to an altitude of 16 m, flew against the wind,
and came close to the ship, then "dashed oft"
toward the southeast. Duration:5 min.
Cape Race (Atlantic Ocean).

(LDLN 48; Anatomy 14).


13
Apr. 01, 1897 2100
The whole town saw an object fly under the cloud
ceiling. It came down slowly, then flew away very
fast to the southeast. When directly over the town
it swept the ground with its powerful light. It was
seen to rise up at fantastic speed until barely
discernible, then to come down again and sweep
low over the witnesses. At one point it remained
stationary for 5 min at the edge of a low cloud,
which it illuminated. All could clearly see the
silhouette of the craft.
Everest (Kansas).
(FSR 66, 4).


53
Mar. , 1945
A man out hunting observed an elongated object
flying very slowly, tilted toward the earth. It
crashed into some trees at the end of a clearing.
The enormous craft seemed undamaged as it
rested briefly on the ground, then lifted again with
a humming sound, started to spin, released a
shower of fine silvery threads, and rose straight
up, disappearing in seconds.
Belfast (Maine).

(FS May. , 59).


Then, of course, there are cases of several thousand mph radar
tracks from UFOs, including

1952 http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/520716.htm

Also, one can hardly miss the presence of massive slow flying
cloud cigars in that same period. And now, we have the huge,
mostly slow moving, "wings" and "triangles" exemplified by the
events in the 1980 in the Hudson Valley.

It is essential to back up trend analyses such as the one quoted
with an actual statistical study of a reliable and available
sighting database.

Obviously, these issues are complicated by the absence of
reference points and real speed estimation techniques in most
reports, but even so, just the cases above suggest that there is
not much of a case for the "technology just ahead of ours"
hypothesis (often used as a justification for paranormal
theories).

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo.htm
------





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   Apr > Apr 1

                   Correction On High Speed Radar Case URL

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:36:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:10:28 -0500
Subject: Correction On High Speed Radar Case URL


The URL I mentioned in my earlier message should
have been

http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/521206.htm

The one I cited was Paul Hill's acceleration case.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo.htm
------





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                 Re: 'U.S. Military UFO Cover-Up Foiled' In

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:28:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:32:44 -0500
Subject: Re: 'U.S. Military UFO Cover-Up Foiled' In


>From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: 'U.S. Military UFO Cover-Up Foiled' In Australia?
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:31:01 -0600

>http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw/special.htm

>U.S MILITARY UFO COVER-UP FOILED IN AUSTRALIA

>Or,
>The Balloon goes up over Pine Gap

>It happened in 1992 but is only told now

>By Warren Aston UFO Researcher

<snip>

>To find out more about Pine Gap. plug into Slider home page
>below

>http://www.network.com.au/home/slider/pinegap/.htm



Dear Tim:

Oddly,  the entire domain:

http://www.network.com.au

Cannot be reached from here (California) today. I tried some
fictitious Aussie domains  like www.dfdfdfdf.com.au which also
could not be found .. BUT they took some seconds of search to
find they do not exist.

www.network.com.au came back immediately as a site impossible to
locate.

All my other bookmarked (favorites) sites come right in.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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                           Current UFOR List Group

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:59:10 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:19:24 -0500
Subject: Current UFOR List Group


The following lists are the current UFOR group.

UFOR (General List)
UFORMediarelations
UFORPoliticalaction
UFORSightingreports
UFORCarribean
UFORCentralAmerica
UFORChina
UFOREastEurope
UFORFormerSoviet
UFORIndia
UFORNorthAmerica
UFORPacificRim
UFORSouthAmerica
UFORWestEurope

To subscribe go to: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/[listname]





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                          Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12

From: "Bill Hamilton" <skywatcher22@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:53:59 PST
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:32:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12

This response has been sent to me in response to Kevin Randle's
remarks.  I think the points are being made regarding the issues
for the record, but I do not expect concessions, just discourse.

Bill Hamilton


----Original Message Follows----
From: DrBobWood@aol.com
To: skywatcher22@hotmail.com
CC: rswood@igc.apc.org
Subject: Comments on Kevin Randle's Remarks
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 01:16:53 EST

Dear Bill,

If you would like to post this, we would welcome it.

Thanks, Bob and Ryan Wood

Recently, a "Joint Statement" about the authenticity of the Special
Operations
Manual 1-01, "Extraterrestrial Entities and Technology, Recovery and
Disposal"
has been posted.  Robert and Ryan Wood wrote a rebuttal, and Tom Deuley
and
Kevin Randle wrote supporting the initial Joint Statement.  We found in
our
files the initial evaluation, never published before, of Appendix C,
"The
MJ-12 Operations Manual" critique by Randle, pp. 285-290, in "Conspiracy
of
Silence," Avon Books, 1997.  Although the book has many excellent
attributes
and is indeed recommended reading, the treatment of the MJ-12 topics and
the
Manual were based on faulty assumptions, as noted below:

Page 285, Par 1
o Allegation: Evidence exists that the documents are fraudulent.
o Rebuttal: No such evidence exists.
o Comment: The ability to discriminate the real from the fake is the
correct
way to view the issue.

Page 285, Par. 2
o Allegation: The source is unidentified.  Man at gun show did not know
source.
o Rebuttal: Don Berliner received undeveloped 35-mm negatives in the
mail
postmarked March 7, 1994, La Crosse, WI.  Mailer=92s identity is indeed
unknown.
Lack of provenance is not highly relevant to authenticity.  Experts do
not
have to rely on provenance alone.

Page 286, Par. 3
o Allegation: A great deal of work went into construction, implying work
by
faker.  Seal included to add visual impact.
o Rebuttal: The high quality of the manual is also consistent with
production
by the USGPO or CIA print shop equivalent.  The War Department Seal was
used
on most manuals of that vintage.  Examples abound.

Page 286, Par. 4
o Allegation: The manual is short.  It is missing some pages including
photos.
o Rebuttal: If the manual were authentic, it would have been only long
enough
to accomplish purpose.  Twenty-three frames are consistent with the
photographer running out of film in a 20-roll.

Page 286, Par. 5
o Allegation: Most members of UFO community believe the MJ-12 documents
fake.
But new document should stand or fall on its own analysis.
o Rebuttal: "Most members" has no basis in any scientific poll.  Yes,
the
document could and does stand on its own analysis.  If the other
documents
were correlated, it would seem strange to ignore them.  There is a
distinct
possibility that part of the Eisenhower Briefing Document is fake, but
that
the Manual is genuine.

Page 286, Par. 6
o Allegation: "Eyes Only" is for a specific person; therefore, a manual
would
be inconsistent with this classification caveat.
o Rebuttal: "Eyes Only" is not limited to specific persons.  It means
that it
cannot be copied, but that everyone who sees it must sign a record.
This
allegation is obviously based on a false assumption.

Page 287, Par. 7
o Allegation: The "real mistake" is the use of "Restricted" on the
cover.
This category was canceled in November 1953, and manual date is April
1954.
o Rebuttal: The classification alluded to was "Restricted Data."  The
use of
the single word "Restricted" is not a classification but would be
limiting
distribution.  Examples of manuals of the era exist having "Restricted"
on the
cover in the same style type.

Page 287, Par. 8
o Allegation: If document does not conform to regulations, it implies
hoax.
Documents at this level would be closely monitored.
o Rebuttal: There is no evidence that the document does not conform to
the
regulations of the era.  In any case, this group, according to the
document,
could set their own rules.

Page 287, Par. 9
o Allegation: Pankratz of the Eisenhower Library is cited as saying
MAJIC EYES
ONLY never existed.
o Rebuttal: Eisenhower Library would not have been given this data if
the
classification were genuine.  Probably NSA does not know either.  This
classification is seen on documents only after 24 September 1947.  Lack
of
official record does not discriminate.  Officials will not release
anything
that is defined to be not for public inspection.

Page 288, Par. 10
o Allegation: A real manual would not contain an obsolete classification
mark.
o Rebuttal: Same old argument about "Restricted."  See examples in same
type
style.  The level of people authorizing would have been the same level
establishing the classification rules.

Page 288, Par. 11
o Allegation: If the classification is a mistake, need examples of
similar
mistakes from authentic documents.
o Rebuttal: At the Top Secret level, most documents are not declassified
yet,
especially Code Word and Eyes Only.  In addition, classification level
in the
Archives is not a category.  Several documents at lower levels include
"Restricted" and the War Department logo.

Page 288, Par. 12
o Allegation: The security level of "2 points above Top Secret" does not
exist.  Text says, "no special group such as MJ-12 exists."
o Rebuttal: The purpose of this sentence would be consistent with
impressing
the 1954 reader.  One "point" might be the Code Word MAJIC, and the
second,
"Eyes Only."  The directions about the existence of the group are
totally
consistent with an authentic manual=92s objectives: fully covert
operations.
Gen. Groves had a file "Above Top Secret."

Page 288, Par. 13
o Allegation: (Preceding) "paragraph is utter nonsense."  There are no
classifications above Top Secret.
o Rebuttal: There may be no classifications above Top Secret, but the
Manhattan Engineering District records may not be available, and they
had
their own rules.  In the absence of detailed (classified) Classification
Management Directives from this era, we do not really know.  Not a
discriminator.

Page 289, Par. 14
o Allegation: Special Compartmented Information (SCI) would modify Top
Secret
legitimately.
o Rebuttal: True statement.  Top Secret=97MAJIC could have been a
legitimate
compartment designation, as the precursor of what we now call SCI.  The
current security procedures have their roots in the past, of course.

Page 289, Par. 15
o Allegation: "Two points higher than Top Secret is ridiculous"=97 "There
is no
such classification."
o Rebuttal: Same argument as Par. 12.  See rebuttal there.  Today=92s
classification guidance is nearly irrelevant to what went on in 1954 or
so.

Page 289, Par. 16
o Allegation: There is no need to explain or justify the need for the
high
classification. ("Ridiculous")
o Rebuttal: The classification of UFO recoveries and alien bodies is
easily
justified, as something the public should not know.  The security of the
program was one of the main objectives, according to the manual.

Page 289, Par. 17
o Allegation: "The smoking gun proving the manual to be a hoax is
...several
references to Area 51 and S-4."
o Rebuttal: Deep research shows that the Government in 1951 obtained
this
geographical region for covert purposes.  The references are still
classified.
This material is very impressive, and cannot be obtained easily.

Page 290, Par. 18
o Allegation: Designation Area 51 did not come into use until late
1950s.
Thus, manual is a fake.
o Rebuttal: Same as above.  The story of this land is deeply classified,
even
today.  The initial Air Force memo released regarding the manual
redacted all
discussion of Area 51 S-4 in the unclassified version.

Page 290, Par. 19
o Allegation: A lot of time was spent by someone creating the manual but
he
had not understood the classification system.
o Rebuttal: A lot of time has been spent trying to replicate them to
conform
with USGPO practices of the time, unsuccessfully.  The nominal Adobe
Monotype
Modern does not quite match the manual.  If the manual is authentic, it
was
created with a Monotype machine that used a mechanical spacing technique
with
triangular shaped wedges.  Today=92s machines cannot replicate the fonts
and
spacing.  Anyone who claims that it is easy should try to do just one
page
with 1993 software.

Page 290, Par. 20
o Allegation: There is no doubt that the manual is nothing more than a
fake.
It does not conform to the regulations, contains inaccurate information,
and
is incomplete.
o Rebuttal: A summary of specious claims.  No objective tests have been
offered to discriminate between real and fake.  The weight of the
evidence is
overwhelmingly consistent with an authentic document.

Overall, the concerns raised by Randle do not include all those offered
by the
Air Force.  He failed to cover the allegation that 1954 radars could not
determine shape (they can, given several data records or air-to-air
recordings); or that the manual in 1954 mentioned downed satellites as a
legitimate argument to convince the nosy public to go away.  It can be
shown
that the public would have been quite familiar with the reality of
satellites.

Furthermore, since the manual was first made available for research, a
"change
control" page has been found that clearly indicates the exact date of
update
of each changed page and the typed initials of the change control
authority.
This was published in "The Majestic Documents," available at
800-845-2151.
Other naysayers had said that such a page must exist, and it does.

We will respond to Tom Deuley=92s extensive and thoughtful comments later.

Wood and Wood Enterprises.
Robert M. Wood and Ryan S. Wood








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                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description

From: Karl Pflock <Ktperehwon@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:42:08 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:24:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 00:49:26 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description


>>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:13:18 -0500
>>Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:09:15 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description

<snip>

Mr. Rudiak and Fellow List Fiends--

No doubt Mr. Rudiak will consider this the kiss of death, but
I'm with him 100%.  Bravo! sir.

-- Cheers, KARL (aka MJ-NAUGHT)





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                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Scott LeGrand <varelse@best.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:13:35 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:37:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:53:15 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>On Tuesday March 30th at 10:00pm EST, Sightings on the Radio and
>Jeff Rense will be hosting a debate between Stanton Friedman and
>Lawrence Krauss. Stanton needs no introduction but many of you
>may not be aware of who Krauss is.


One short comment: isn't it possible that some of these scientists
that looked at the evidence, actually did so in an objective way,
and concluded that it was lacking?  Why is it the minute someone
expresses skepticism about the reality of UFOs, they're accused
of losing their objectivity?  That doesn't sound very objective
to me...

Scott





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             Deployed Antenna Sending Streams Of New Mars Images

From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:50:18 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:49:03 -0500
Subject: Deployed Antenna Sending Streams Of New Mars Images


Douglas Isbell
Headquarters, Washington, DC                  March 29, 1999
(Phone:  202/358-1547)

Mary Hardin
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
(Phone:  818/354-0344)

RELEASE:  99-48

DEPLOYED ANTENNA SENDING STREAMS OF NEW MARS IMAGES

       A steady stream of new data from Mars, including high-
resolution images, will begin arriving next week at Earth
receiving stations following yesterday's deployment of the Mars
Global Surveyor's high-power communications antenna.

       "Having a deployed, steerable high-gain antenna is like
switching from a garden hose to a fire hose in terms of data
return from the spacecraft," said Joseph Beerer, flight
operations manager for Mars Global Surveyor at NASA's Jet
Propulsion Laboratory.

       "Up until now, we have been using the high-gain antenna
in its stowed position, so periodically during the first three
weeks of our mapping mission, we had to stop collecting science
data and turn the entire spacecraft to transmit data to Earth,"
Beerer explained.  "Now that the high-gain antenna is deployed
and steerable, we have the ability to simultaneously study Mars
and communicate with Earth."

       The antenna was deployed at about midnight EST, Sunday,
March 28. It had been stowed since launch in November 1996 to
reduce its chances of being contaminated by exhaust from the
spacecraft's main engine, which was fired periodically
throughout the mission.  The spacecraft entered orbit around
Mars in September 1997 and used a technique called aerobraking
to gradually lower the spacecraft's altitude to the desired
orbit for mapping.  The mapping mission began March 9;
full-scale mapping begins April 4.

       Because engineers were uncertain that a device intended
to dampen the force of the deployment would work correctly,
engineers used the antenna in its stowed configuration for the
first three weeks of mapping. This allowed the team to meet the
mission's minimum science objectives before risking the antenna
deployment.

       Last night, the dish-shaped high-gain antenna, 5 feet in
diameter, was deployed on a 6.6-foot-long boom and was pushed
outward from the spacecraft by a powerful spring. The suspect
dampening device worked as it should have, cushioning the force
of the spring and limiting the speed of the deployment, similar
to the automatic closer on a screen door. With the antenna
successfully deployed, Mars Global Surveyor will return a nearly
constant stream of observations of Mars for the next two years.

       Information from the science instruments is recorded 24
hours a day on solid state recorders on board the spacecraft.
Once a day, during a 10-hour tracking pass over a Deep Space
Network antenna, the data are transmitted to Earth.  In
addition, every third day a second tracking pass is used to
transmit data "live" at a very high rate directly to Earth
without being put on the recorder.  These data, which will
contain high-resolution images of Mars, will be transmitted at
rates between 40,000 and 80,000 bits per second.

        Mars Global Surveyor is managed by the Jet Propulsion
Laboratory for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC.
Lockheed Martin Astronautics of Denver developed and operates
the spacecraft.  The Jet Propulsion Laboratory is a division of
the California Institute of Technology.

     Further information about the mission is available on the
Internet at:

          http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/index.html

                          - end -

                            * * *

NASA press releases and other information are available
automatically by sending an Internet electronic mail message to
domo@hq.nasa.gov. In the body of the message (not the subject
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                     Sightings, Sudbury, Ontario - 03-99

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:08:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:04:33 -0500
Subject: Sightings, Sudbury, Ontario - 03-99


Hey, Errol,

Check these out. Looks like we just went through a mini-wave
just like February-March 1995.


I received the following reports as a result of my letter to the
editor which appeared in the Friday, March 19 issue of The
Northern Life.  They include a report which turned out to be a
natural phenomena and an account of a daytime sighting that took
place four years ago, in August 1995:


Wednesday, March 10, 1999:

At around 3:40 p.m., a man driving from Elliot Lake on highway
108 toward highway 17, reported seeing a cone-shaped object
moving across the sky from west to east.  The front end of it
was squared off.  There was no vapour trail behind it and it was
as white as a cloud.  He watched it for a minute, lost sight of
it, then saw it again for 3 more minutes before disappearing
from view.


Friday, March 12, 1999:

A little after 10 p.m. that evening, a boy was trying to go to
sleep when he looked out his window and saw a triangular object
in the night sky.  It had three coloured lights; one at each
corner.  One light was red and the other two were white.  He
also noticed a fourth light in the center of the craft; a
smaller red light which was moving around in a circular motion.
He said that the triangular craft was about as big as an aspirin
held at arm's length.  The witness said it was too high to be a
plane and jets can't stop and go like it did.  It stopped again
way off in the east and sped up and went south.

This past Tuesday, I received a call from this boy who reported
that on Monday night (March 29), at around 11:15 p.m., he saw a
similar object which moved very rapidly across the southern sky.


Saturday, March 13, 1999:

A Garson resident reported that at around 1:05 a.m., he saw a
big, round object moving across the sky in a northwesterly
direction.  He said it blinked 4 times before disappearing and
described it as being lime-green in colour, oval-shaped and as
large as a garbage can cover held at a distance of 15 feet.


Monday, March 15, 1999:

At around 3 p.m., two men saw what appeared to be a glare moving
across the sky while out ice fishing on Dunlop Lake, near Elliot
Lake.  The witness who reported this incident said the object
was a lot bigger than a plane and described it as "a silver
bullet-type thing."  He said it flew above the trees about 3=BD to
4 miles away, and then just disappeared.  Both the top and lower
halves were reflecting sunlight, he said, but the middle section
was blurry.


Monday, March 15 or Tuesday, March 16, 1999:

At around 9 a.m., a Hanmer man driving on Regional road 80 near
the Skead-Sudbury Airport turnoff, reported seeing a round
silver ball very high in the eastern sky.  The weather was
clear, and there were no clouds, which made it difficult for him
to estimate its height.  It caught his attention when it
suddenly moved to the south, then disappeared.  A few seconds
later, it reappeared and started moving to the north before
vanishing again.




 Saturday, March 20, 1999:

At around 3 a.m., two women driving back from Sault, Michigan
saw what first looked like a bright star in the sky, that
suddenly came down at tremendous speed and flew past their car.
The witness reporting the incident was in the passenger seat and
said that as the large ball of light flew past the car, sparks
were shooting off from end to end.  She looked back through the
rear window of the car to see the object as it stopped and
hovered above the road.  She wanted to go back, but the other
woman driving the car didn't want to stop because she was afraid
she'd get abducted.

***************

Jupiter sighting:

For the past 2 weeks, a Sudbury resident has seen what appeared
to him to be a UFO in the western sky, after 7:30 p.m.  It is
visible for about three quarters of an hour, then drifts off to
the west which seems to be at a very slow rate of speed.  He
said it is very bright and can't tell the shape of it.

I called a friend of mine about it, went out, shot it on video,
and within seconds, it was determined that what the witness had
been looking at was the planet Jupiter, which is very bright at
this time of year.  If you look at a planet or a star long
enough, it will move or shift position.  But you won't see the
type of eratic movement that is found in "High Strangeness"
cases.


August 1995:

While walking through a playground near Ethelbert Street, two
men saw a football-shaped object hovering above the Pine Street
Water Tower.  The witness who reported it described the UFO as
"being grey-bluish in colour, but more grey, which blended well
with the sky".  The sighting occurred on a clear, hot day.


Again, if you or anyone you know has had a sighting of any kind,
please don't hesitate to contact me by dialling (705) 670-2759
or e-mailing me at: ufoman@ican.net.  Confidentiality is
assured.  Any information you provide will be greatly
appreciated.  Thank you.


Michel M. Deschamps MUFON Provincial Section Director for
Sudbury, Ontario & UFO Researcher/Historian





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   Apr > Apr 2

                        Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX

From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:19:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 03:38:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX


>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:48:14 -0500
>From: John Majhor <johnnym@idirect.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX

>This is actionable behavior which calls into question his
>ability to function in a logical, intelligent manner in proving
>his own claims. Artbell's site has been hacked, but it appears
>to be by Serbian Militant hackers,  not "RAM" Stephens.

Let's see 12:01 last night til now is what day? Art Bell most
likely did that hack himself. It was pretty impressive, however
the webmaster at beograde.com wasn't amused one damned bit,
since the hoax linked to his site.

As for "proving his own claims"..many, many of us have been
waiting years for _Hoagland_ to do just that. You and others may
sputter and wheeze about Stephens, but his list of questions to
Hoagland is an excellent start. Exactly when do you suppose
Hoagland will ever address the issues raised by the questions?

For a good laugh visit - http://skepticult.org/artpar/






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                                     Re:

From: John Majhor <johnnym@idirect.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:45:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 04:12:18 -0500
Subject: Re:



Well...I went back for a peek at Art Bell's site and got the
April Fool dose of "gotcha"...Art and Keith did a terrific job
of making me think that their site had been hacked by Serbian
Militants.

Fine job fellas!

On this day, I always attmept to keep my eye peeled for the
inevitable, and constantly get caught unawares. It's the one
thing I love most about the first day of April.

What I said about 'RAMS' earlier still goes, although I
suspect he's laughing at anyone who actually called his ISP.

Unix, indeed!

JM






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                   Bell's Site 'Hack Hoax' Draws Backlash

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 04:54:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 04:54:33 -0500
Subject: Bell's Site 'Hack Hoax' Draws Backlash

Source: Jeff Rense's 'Sightings'

http://www.sightings.com/ufo3/backlash.htm


Bell's Site Hack Hoax Drawing Strong Backlash 4-1-99


From: Clyde Lewis <clyde@earthbroadcasting.com Ground Zero -
      http://www.clydelewis.com
To: Sightings
Subject: Fw: GROUND ZERO UPDATE:
         --April Fools day prank from Art Bell
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:46:15 -0700


GROUND ZERO UPDATE - April Fools day "prank" from Art Bell

Ground Zero Reported this morning that the Art Bell Web Page was
hacked by the Beograd Hackers. Keith Rowland Art Bell's
Webmaster has now stated that it was an April Fools "prank"
devised by Bell and Himself. If this is the case, then why was
it listed at http://www.2600.com as being Legit? Ground Zero
mirrored the site, and so did 2600.com. The Art Bell site has
now been changed.

After the announcement it seems a bit of a backlash has
occurred. While Art Bell feels that using a tragedy is all in
fun and is proving a point, some are not so impressed. This
"prank" was not only reported on 2600.com as legit it also found
it's way to the Drudge report, MSNBC and many other credible
sources for information. This has developed unwittingly into a
gross publicity stunt and For that Ground Zero issues an
apology.

After we were made aware of the "prank" Ground Zero did some
checking. We Contacted 2600.com To let them know of what had
happened. We asked if it would be possible to track just who
hacked what and what hacked whom. We received a prompt response
from Emmanuel Goldstein. He wrote;

"There's no way to verify one way or the other since that's the
nature of a hacked site. April 1st is the best date for a bogus
hacked site but it's impossible to know whether or not it's a
joke when we report on it unless it's clearly pointed out in the
text or the source. Therefore, his saying we were "fooled" is
about as accurate as fooling someone with an unloaded gun during
a stickup."

Biff Macki of 2600.com responded also:

"In cases like these it's hard to know for certain who was
responsible. The Art Bell "hack" is pretty suspicious.

It wouldn't make much sense for politically motivated hackers or
"hacktivists" to hack a website that agrees with their message,
what would be the point? The idea usually would be to hack a
counter site so that people looking for the other side's
opinion, are forced to hear yours instead. Also vast majority of
hacked sites don't have such clean formatting, or look so pretty
(they're busy trying to get into the site, not coding HTML).
There are other little things like the filenames and directory
structure of the graphics which make it look like an in-house
job.

None of these things determine for certain one way or the other,
but given that it's April Fool's day, and that he's announced
that it was a joke, I'm inclined to believe him. I have sent an
inquery to a group in Kosovo who may know more about the Beograd
hacker scene.. We'll see if anything comes of it.

The Bottom line is whether or not you trust Art Bell. One day he
says he is a Journalist, the next he is a mere entertainer
relying on the maturity and wisdom of his listeners.

<snip>

A listener Comments on the Art Bell Site:

"You sick bastard! This April fools joke has got to be one of
the most horrible ones I've seen yet! How dare you make fun of
all the suffering? My God! Posting pictures of people with legs
torn off, etc. That was not funny. You should be ashamed of
yourself! You are a horrible person! All respect I've had for
you and Art is now gone. Keith, what the hell were you
thinking?"


We can only guess what he was thinking. That Maybe he has come
to a point where he is untouchable? incorrigible? He constantly
points out that he is the master of late night. With over 400
stations under his belt. With appearances on Millennium and
Larry King, its easy to think that you have made it and that the
whole world is banking on your every word. You hear that Art?
It's the sound of radios switching off. Just a little April
fools joke.

Clyde Lewis

---

From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org To: skywatch@ltlb.com
Subject: Re: (Skyopen) Art gets Hacked

Right. And if anyone out there believes a word of that Bell
sh*t, then you really ARE an April Fool! The hacker net,
particularly the people at 2600, said Bell's site was definitely
hacked into. Once again, Bell &Co. are simply doing what they do
best - lying to the public. Thank goodness for media people like
Jeff Rense, who actually knows of what he speaks, and actually
reads his guests' books. Bell is nothing more than an
egomaniacal "entertainer"/moron, who more than likely is
operating under someone else's shadowy dizinformatzia agenda.
Da?

"Skywatch International Inc." wrote:

from www.artbell.com... <Is this a joke like his quitting? LOL
Jim

April Fools Prank During the beginning hours of April 1st, we
pulled an April Fools Prank Hack on our own web site. Many of
you were fooled, but we're here to tell you it was indeed posted
by us. The site did not get hacked by any outside organization.

---

Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 11:51:47 +1000 From: vince@holon.net
To:Sightings Subject: Art's Prank

Dear Mr Rense

I e-mailed this to Art Bell, though I thought I'd share this
commentary with you as well.

Kind regards

Vincent M. AUSTRALIA ______

Dear Mr Bell

Yeah, great April fool's prank. Within the context of trying to
understand the reasoning behind your April Fool's joke, I find
it intriguing to hear you say: "Though I do not agree in any way
with what the Serbs are REPORTED to be doing, it is none of our
damn business", saying that if the bombings are part of the NWO,
then you want no part of it. And yet later on, you say: "If we
must act beyond our own borders, then let us help those
displaced by the madness". We ARE involved, Mr Bell, by mere
fact that we are witnesses to the event, regardless of whether
bombings occur or not. And by helping those "displaced by the
madness", then we need to go beyond our own borders, our
boundaries and if necessary, our own comfort zones.

Kosovo is not just about political or ethnic ideologies, Mr
Bell. It is about nation being concerned about nation, and about
concern for our fellow human-beings. It is also about
understanding what is appropriate action to take when we do
witness carnage and evidence of ethnic cleansing.

Kosovo, like the Gulf War, is also about media propaganda. We
see it every day, and it shields us from understanding where the
real origins of these conflicts lie. The ethnic war is just a
front and an excuse used by those hidden ones who pull the
strings and desire and strategize for a certain outcome. Those
'hidden' ones would prefer that our attention be dispersed and
yet glued to the veneer of the situation, so that hopefully as
many of us remain so horrified, confused or dazed that we just
don't want to know any more about it, let alone understand it by
scratching below the surface. In that light, Kosovo is about
understanding and a prod for many of us to 'wake up', and your
prank doesn't assist that cause. Whatever point you chose to
make, dressing the plight of the these displaced Kosovan groups
as a prank has only added its quota to the mass profusion of
confusion already present. Why not be a voice that fosters
understanding and clarity, instead of sensationalism.

Yeah, great joke, Art!

---

From: Autmnkiten@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:58:42 EST
Subject: Re: Art Bell April Fools "Prank" To:
webmaster@sightings.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To:
Autmnkiten@aol.com

Since you gave plenty of space to the people who sent letters
condemning Art Bell and his webmaster Keith Rowland for their
April Fools "Prank", perhaps you would be so kind as to post
this in defense of what they did. I expected more out of the
people who join me in listening to Art's show every night. He
presents facts and ideas (always with the caveat that it is up
to us to believe them or take them worth a grain of salt) in a
format that allows his listeners to act as free thinking adults.
This is refreshing in a time when main stream media spoon feeds
us what they think we should know. I suppose uptight people
could construe some of the things Art has done as being in "bad
taste", but I do not believe his disappearance in October was a
"stunt". I have never doubted his sincerety, even when I do not
agree with his philosophy, and he seemed very upset at that time
about having to leave. Also, Art was not taking advantage of the
situation in Kosovo to make a joke. He was taking advantage of
April Fools Day to get a message out. And look how many people's
attention the message got! People have accused Art of not
supporting the troops because he doesn't support the Nato air
strikes. Well, Art was in Vietnam. He probably knows the
difference first-hand. Nothing Art has said on the air or that
Keith has posted on the site has given me the feeling Art is
against the troops. I applaud them for taking an original
approach to dealing with this conflict while most others just
sit back and accept the fact that we are at war again.

Sincerely, Kelly M. Ener

Kellmarie@yahoo.com


SIGHTINGS HOMEPAGE







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   Apr > Apr 2

                          Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:51:46 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 05:03:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12


Here is my response to the rebuttal from Dr. and Ryan Woods -

>Recently, a "Joint Statement" about the authenticity of the Special
>Operations Manual 1-01, "Extraterrestrial Entities and Technology,
>Recovery and Disposal" has been posted.  Robert and Ryan Wood wrote a
>rebuttal, and Tom Deuley and Kevin Randle wrote supporting the initial
>Joint Statement.  We found in our files the initial evaluation, never
>published before, of Appendix C, "The MJ-12 Operations Manual" critique by
>Randle, pp. 285-290, in "Conspiracy of Silence," Avon Books, 1997.
>Although the book has many excellent attributes and is indeed recommended
>reading, the treatment of the MJ-12 topics and the Manual were based on
>faulty assumptions, as noted below:

I'm not sure what it means that they found "the initial
evaluation, never published before, of Appendix C" and then
mention it was published by Avon Books. Anyway, thanks for the
kind words, even if we do disagree on the authenticity of the
Operations Manual and MJ-12.

>Page 285, Par 1

>o Allegation: Evidence exists that the documents are fraudulent.
>o Rebuttal:   No such evidence exists.
>o Comment:    The ability to discriminate the real from the fake is the
>correct way to view the issue.

Actually, what the line says is, "It seems that every time we
have provided evidence that the documents are fraudulent,
another argument pops up to contradict our opinion."

That evidence would be the proof that the Aquarius Telex is a
hoax, the CIA/MJ-5 letter is a hoax, and that the Truman memo
accompanying the Eisenhower Briefing is a hoax. The only
questioned document examiner who has expressed an opinion to me,
Stan Friedman and others has said that the signature on the
Truman memo was clearly transplanted, that the cross stroke on
the "T" had been slightly altered which eliminates the multiple
pen arrangement argument, and that the donor document had been
located. This shows the document to be fraudulent.

The Woods themselves admit the Eisenhower Briefing may be a fake
(See their comments below). Seems like such evidence does, in
fact, exist.

The real way to view this issue is to realize that the
documents, without a provenance, are questioned and the burden
of proof is on those claiming authenticity. In other words, they
are required to prove the documents authentic and they have
failed to do so.

>Page 285, Par. 2

>o Allegation: The source is unidentified.  Man at gun show did not know
>source.
>o Rebuttal:   Don Berliner received undeveloped 35-mm negatives in the
>mail postmarked March 7, 1994, La Crosse, WI.  Mailer's
>identity is indeed unknown.
>Lack of provenance is not highly relevant to authenticity.
>Experts do not have to rely on provenance alone.

Excuse me, but Don Berliner receiving a copy anonymously in the
mail is not the same as an identified source. Provenance is, in
fact, one of the keys in establishing the authenticity of a
questioned document. And no one said they rely on provenance
alone. It is just an important part of the examination.

>Page 286, Par. 3

>o Allegation: A great deal of work went into construction, implying work
>by faker.  Seal included to add visual impact.
>o Rebuttal:   The high quality of the manual is also consistent with
>production by the USGPO or CIA print shop equivalent.  The War
>Department Seal was used on most manuals of that vintage.
>Examples abound.

In April 1954, when this document was allegedly created, there
was no War Department and it hadn't existed for about seven
years. If the War Department seal is proper, then it means the
document was created by an agency as part of the Army or Air
Force. That changes the search parameters and eliminates all
other agencies as the source of, and the home of, MJ-12 and its
materials.

>Page 286, Par. 4

>o Allegation: The manual is short.  It is missing some pages including
>photos.
>o Rebuttal:   If the manual were authentic, it would have been only long
>enough to accomplish purpose.  Twenty-three frames are
>consistent with the photographer running out of film in a
>20-roll.

The manual is short because it does not contain the information
that would be expected for the job the manual directs to be done
correctly. The idea that the photographer was dumb enough to
risk prison to photograph the manual but didn't bring enough
film stretches credulity. Besides, I have a friend whose camera
used but half the frame on a 35 mm roll of film. If he brought a
36 exposure roll, he could have taken 72 pictures. The rebuttal
is little more than speculation.

>Page 286, Par. 5

>o Allegation: Most members of UFO community believe the MJ-12 documents
>fake. But new document should stand or fall on its own
>analysis.
>o Rebuttal:  "Most members" has no basis in any scientific poll.  Yes,
>the document could and does stand on its own analysis.  If the
>other documents
>were correlated, it would seem strange to ignore them.  There
>is a distinct possibility that part of the Eisenhower Briefing
>Document is fake, but that the Manual is genuine.

No one claimed it was a scientific poll. This is a straw man. I
will say, however, in the informal, self-selecting polls that I
have conducted, as well as my discussions with many leaders in
the UFO community, the majority believe the documents to be
fraudulent.

Please note that the Woods suggested earlier that there is no
evidence that the documents are faked, but here suggest another
of the documents, or rather part of the Eisenhower Briefing,
might be faked.

>Page 286, Par. 6

>o Allegation: "Eyes Only" is for a specific person; therefore, a manual
>would be inconsistent with this classification caveat.
>o Rebuttal:   "Eyes Only" is not limited to specific persons.  It means
>that itcannot be copied, but that everyone who sees it must
 >sign a record. This allegation is obviously based on a false
 >assumption.

Please present any other MANUAL that is labeled as "Eyes Only."
If duplication is forbidden, that is what the document says. It
does not say "Eyes Only" to prevent duplication.

>Page 287, Par. 7

>o Allegation: The "real mistake" is the use of "Restricted" on the
>cover. This category was canceled in November 1953, and
>manual date is April 1954.
>o Rebuttal:   The classification alluded to was "Restricted Data."  The
>use of the single word "Restricted" is not a classification but
>would be limiting distribution.  Examples of manuals of the
>era exist having "Restricted" on the cover in the same style
>type.

Nope. Restricted was a classification below secret before
Eisenhower, by executive order, created the three levels of
classification - Confidential, Secret and Top Secret. Restricted
Data referred specifically to nuclear secrets and was not used
as "Restricted." While there are other manuals that existed in
the time frame with Restricted on the cover, they were not
created AFTER Eisenhower issued his executive order. Having both
Restricted and Top Secret on the cover is a mixing of two
classification levels and is indicative of a hoax. There really
is no way around this mistake.

>Page 287, Par. 8

>o Allegation: If document does not conform to regulations, it implies
>hoax. Documents at this level would be closely monitored.
>o Rebuttal:   There is no evidence that the document does not conform to
>the regulations of the era.  In any case, this group,
>according to the document, could set their own rules.

The use of both Restricted and Top Secret on the cover is just
one example of the documents failure to conform to the standards
of the time. If we allow the speculative argument that the group
could set their own standards, then we have removed a barrier to
establishing authenticity without a proper foundation. We have
NO examples of any group, no matter how highly placed they were,
who could ignore the regulations on the creation of classified
documents. More importantly, there is no reason for the mythical
MJ-12 committee to have such power because obeying the
regulations would not lead to the compromise of their
organization. That they could set their own rules is
speculation.

>Page 287, Par. 9

>o Allegation: Pankratz of the Eisenhower Library is cited as saying
>MAJIC EYES ONLY never existed.
>o Rebuttal:   Eisenhower Library would not have been given this data if
>the classification were genuine.  Probably NSA does not know
>either.  This classification is seen on documents only
>after 24 September 1947.  Lack of official record does not
>discriminate.  Officials will not release anything that is
>defined to be not for public inspection.

Another nice dodge to explain why there is absolutely no
evidence outside of the documents themselves to the existence of
MJ-12. Since the Eisenhower Library DOES have a great deal of
material that is still classified, there is no legitimate reason
to believe that some reference to MJ-12 could not be found if
the organization existed. With all the people looking in so many
places, it is reasonable to believe that some reference to MJ-12
would have been found. That simply hasn't happened.

>Page 288, Par. 10

>o Allegation: A real manual would not contain an obsolete classification
>mark.
>o Rebuttal:   Same old argument about "Restricted."  See examples in same
>type style.  The level of people authorizing would have been
>the same level establishing the classification rules.

And I would use the same argument that I used above. Restricted
is improper and outdated. It suggests that the manual is a hoax.

>Page 288, Par. 11

>o Allegation: If the classification is a mistake, need examples of
>similar mistakes from authentic documents.
>o Rebuttal:   At the Top Secret level, most documents are not declassified
>yet, especially Code Word and Eyes Only.  In addition,
>classification level in the Archives is not a category.
>Several documents at lower levels include "Restricted" and
>the War Department logo.

Yet we have lots of examples of formerly classified Top Secret
and code word documents to review. We have not seen similar
mistakes on them. Anyone who has worked with documents
classified at this level will suggest the documents that have
mixed levels of classification are not authentic. The only way
this could happen is if the document was originally classified
at one level and then downgraded. There is no evidence on the
Operation Manual that this is the case, which would be there if
it was.

>Page 288, Par. 12

>o Allegation: The security level of "2 points above Top Secret" does not
>exist.  Text says, "no special group such as MJ-12 exists."
>o Rebuttal:   The purpose of this sentence would be consistent with
>impressing the 1954 reader.  One "point" might be the Code
>Word MAJIC, and the second, "Eyes Only."  The directions about
>the existence of the group are totally consistent with an
>authentic manual's objectives: fully covert operations. Gen.
>Groves had a file "Above Top Secret."

Idle speculation to explain something that didn't exist. And I
had a file laying around that said impending doom, but that did
not make it part of the classification system, nor would such a
thing legitimize the statement from the manual.

>Page 288, Par. 13

>o Allegation: (Preceding) "paragraph is utter nonsense."  There are no
>classifications above Top Secret.
>o Rebuttal:    There may be no classifications above Top Secret, but the
>Manhattan Engineering District records may not be
>available, and they had their own rules.  In the absence of
>detailed (classified) Classification Management Directives
>from this era, we do not really know.  Not a discriminator.

As a former Air Force intelligence officer, in all my training,
including that at the DIA, I was never exposed to anything that
suggested there was a classification above top secret. Those
people I knew who held higher clearances, such as crypto, have
never heard of such a thing.

>Page 289, Par. 14

>o Allegation: Special Compartmented Information (SCI) would modify Top
>Secret legitimately.
>o Rebuttal:   True statement.  Top Secret=97MAJIC could have been a
>legitimate compartment designation, as the precursor of
>what we now call SCI.  The current security procedures have
>their roots in the past, of course.

Yes, but there is no evidence that there was ever anything
legitimately classified as TOP SECRET - MAJIC. (At least after
World War II, in which MAGIC referred to the breaking of the
Japanese codes. The documents have long since been declassified.
And for those interested, ULTRA referred to reading of the
German codes.)

>Page 289, Par. 15

>o Allegation: "Two points higher than Top Secret is ridiculous"=97 "There
>is no such classification."
>o Rebuttal:    Same argument as Par. 12.  See rebuttal there.  Today's
 >classification guidance is nearly irrelevant to what went
 >on in 1954 or so.

Same argument as above.

>Page 289, Par. 16

>o Allegation:  There is no need to explain or justify the need for the
>high classification. ("Ridiculous")
>o Rebuttal:    The classification of UFO recoveries and alien bodies is
>easily justified, as something the public should not know.
>The security  of the program was one of the main objectives,
>according to the manual.

But not properly laid out which suggests the manual is a hoax.

>Page 289, Par. 17

>o Allegation: "The smoking gun proving the manual to be a hoax is
>...several references to Area 51 and S-4."
>o Rebuttal:    Deep research shows that the Government in 1951 obtained
>this geographical region for covert purposes.  The references
>are still classified. This material is very impressive, and
>cannot be obtained easily.

There is absolutely no evidence that Area 51 existed in 1954.
More importantly, in 1954, the location now known as Area 51 was
in civilian hands. Civilians were still mining the area around
Groom Lake. Sorry, but this really is a "smoking gun."

>Page 290, Par. 18

>o Allegation: Designation Area 51 did not come into use until late
>1950s.  Thus, manual is a fake.
>o Rebuttal:   Same as above.  The story of this land is deeply classified,
>even today.  The initial Air Force memo released regarding the
>manual redacted all discussion of Area 51 S-4 in the
>unclassified version.

Without any evidence that the term Area 51 was in use in 1954,
and without a facility there, and with no evidence of any other
facility ever designated as Area 51, this is an anachronism that
spells the end of the manual.

>Page 290, Par. 19

>o Allegation: A lot of time was spent by someone creating the manual but
>he had not understood the classification system.
>o Rebuttal:   A lot of time has been spent trying to replicate them to
>conform with USGPO practices of the time, unsuccessfully.  The
>nominal Adobe Monotype Modern does not quite match the
>manual.  If the manual is authentic, it was created with a
>Monotype machine that used a mechanical spacing technique
>with triangular shaped wedges.  Today's machines cannot
>replicate the fonts and spacing.  Anyone who claims that it is
>easy should try to do just one page with 1993 software.

Isn't that what I just said.. No evidence has been presented, in
the form of a qualified questioned document expert, to support
the claim of the use of a Monotype machine.

>Page 290, Par. 20

>o Allegation: There is no doubt that the manual is nothing more than a
>fake. It does not conform to the regulations, contains
>inaccurate information, and is incomplete.
>o Rebuttal:   A summary of specious claims.  No objective tests have been=

>offered to discriminate between real and fake.  The weight
>of the evidence is overwhelmingly consistent with an authentic
>document.

No, a recapitulation of the evidence that suggests the document
is a fake. The weight of evidence is overwhelmingly consistent
with fraud. This is a neat attempt to shift the burden of proof
from the supporters of MJ-12 to those of us who believe it a
fake. It is the same tactic that Stan Friedman attempted in his
"Final Report on Operation Majestic Twelve" when he claimed that
in North American courts the defendant was considered innocent
until proven guilty, suggesting that MJ-12 should be considered
authentic until proven a fake. In reality, such is not the case
with questioned documents and the burden of proof is on those
who claim authenticity. They are required to prove their case
but have failed to do so.

>Overall, the concerns raised by Randle do not include all those offered by
>the Air Force.  He failed to cover the allegation that 1954 radars could
>not determine shape (they can, given several data records or air-to-air
>recordings); or that the manual in 1954 mentioned downed satellites as a
>legitimate argument to convince the nosy public to go away.  It can be
>shown that the public would have been quite familiar with the reality of
>satellites.

Now I'm criticized because I didn't use an Air Force argument?
Does that make any sense?


Yes, the idea of artificial satellites was in the public arena
in 1954, but, if the mythical MJ-12 committee attempted to use a
downed satellite as a cover story for the recovery of a crashed
spacecraft, isn't such a cover story going to generate more
questions than it answers? Aren't the reporters, and the public,
going to want to know who was launching artificial satellites in
that era? A cover story, to be believed, must be believable. To
suggest a downed artificial satellite is not going to be
believed and it is going to force reporters to dig deeper
because they will KNOW that it is a cover story.

>Furthermore, since the manual was first made available for
>research, a"change control" page has been found that clearly
>indicates the exact date of update of each changed page and the
>typed initials of the change control authority. This was
>published in "The Majestic Documents," available at
>800-845-2151. Other naysayers had said that such a page must
>exist, and it does.

So someone, hearing these criticisms invented the change control
page which is not the same as the control number that is still
missing.

In the end we are left with the same problems that we have
always had. The Operations Manual, just as the other MJ-12
documents, is filled with mistakes, errors, inconsistencies,
anachronisms and a failure to conform to other, authentic
documents from the era. These are major problems and they have
not been satisfactorily explained.

Worse still is that fact that no direct links to governmental
agencies, or to the membership of MJ-12, have been established.
Without a provenance, the first link in the chain is broken. We
have nothing to suggest that MJ-12 existed except the documents
themselves, all of dubious authenticity.

Nor is there a link from any of the alleged members back into
MJ-12. Stan Friedman performed the Herculean task of researching
Dr. Donald Menzel's past but when all was said and done, there
was nothing in Menzel's personal papers to establish membership
on MJ-12. There were no notes written in his hand about MJ-12,
no letters or memos mentioning MJ-12. There was nothing other
than the fact that Menzel had held high security clearances and
that he had worked in intelligence during the war.

If MJ-12 was real, no matter how highly classified, we would
have found some hint that it existed outside of the documents
that are anonymously leaked and filled with stylistic,
technical, and anachronistic errors. Those problems have not
been adequately addressed by anyone to this date. Instead we are
treated to speculation about why the errors exist but we are
offered no proof in the form of similar mistakes and errors in
other manuals created in the era.

The point is that we have no evidence for the existence of MJ-12
or the authenticity of the various documents, and a great deal
of evidence to suggest that they are faked.

KRandle





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 2

                Re: Deployed Antenna Sending New Mars Images

From: Luis Eduardo Pacheco <ufozone@bigfoot.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:04:53 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 05:08:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Deployed Antenna Sending New Mars Images


>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:50:18 -0500 (EST)
>From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
>Subject: Deployed Antenna Sending Streams Of New Mars Images
>To: undisclosed-recipients:;


>Douglas Isbell
>Headquarters, Washington, DC                  March 29, 1999
>(Phone:  202/358-1547)

>Mary Hardin
>Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
>(Phone:  818/354-0344)

>RELEASE:  99-48

>DEPLOYED ANTENNA SENDING STREAMS OF NEW MARS IMAGES


Hi list!

Someone have any idea about the date of a new pass over the
Cydonia region of Mars by the MGS...?

Un abrazo!


***************************************************************
*  Luis Eduardo Pacheco * Caseros * Buenos Aires * Argentina  *
***************************************************************
* INFORME ALFA: Una vision de la Ovnilogia y las Paraciencias *
*     desde la logica, el sentido comun y la mente abierta    *
*                                                             *
*                 YA ESTA DISPONIBLE EL NUMERO 1              *
*                 ==============================              *
* http://visitweb.com/ALFA  * Email: informe_alfa@bigfoot.com *
***************************************************************






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 2

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:23:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 05:11:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:13:35 -0800 (PST)
>From: Scott LeGrand <varelse@best.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:53:15 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>On Tuesday March 30th at 10:00pm EST, Sightings on the Radio and
>>Jeff Rense will be hosting a debate between Stanton Friedman and
>>Lawrence Krauss. Stanton needs no introduction but many of you
>>may not be aware of who Krauss is.

>One short comment: isn't it possible that some of these scientists
>that looked at the evidence, actually did so in an objective way,
>and concluded that it was lacking?  Why is it the minute someone
>expresses skepticism about the reality of UFOs, they're accused
>of losing their objectivity?  That doesn't sound very objective
>to me...

>Scott

Hello Scott,

To express skepticism towards the existence of UFOs generally
implies ignorance of the data available during the last 50 years
or so.

All, and I mean ALL, the 'skeptical' opinions I have ever read
or heard regarding the reality of UFOs presented one or all of
the following flaws:

1. Ignorance of the data at hand;

2. Deliberate ignorance of the data at hand.

Can an opinion based on ignorance (deliberate or not) be
considered objective?

No.

Can it be considered scientific?

No.

Of course, we are not talking here about specific cases, or the
Strieber show.






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   Apr > Apr 2

                        Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX

From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:49:00 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 05:17:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX


>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:50:32 -0800
>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX

<snip>

I'm amazed at how the UFO community continues to tolerate the
numerous frauds and distractions out there. The lot of them
(Stephens, Bell, Morton, et al) need to find another "hobby" to
take up. Perhaps knitting would be more their speed. Please do
go away soon...

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III





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   Apr > Apr 2

                      Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 02:11:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 11:36:38 -0500
Subject: Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?


>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:53:28 -0500
>From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: UK UFO Photo 'Hoax' Genuine?
>>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:58:03 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>SCHOOLBOY Alex Birch, blamed for hoaxing the world with a
>>sensational DIY flying saucer snap 37 years ago, now insists
>>his story was true.

>UpDates readers who are interested in, or following, the saga of
>the hoaxed UFO photo from 1962 may be interested to learn that
>Alex Birch has now launched his own website to promote his
>story.

>The site, jointly run with Alex's son Adrian, offers a special
>'Birch Package' including the photo, Air Ministry documents
>concerning the case, and news cuttings.

>The Birches also do a nice line in model UFOs, carved in wood,
>and based on the famous Howard Menger photos of the 1950s, and a
>range of artwork and other UFO products. The website address is:

> http://www.ufo-images.ndirect.co.uk

>Who said you can't make a living out of this subject?

Dear David:

Are you referring to the famous Mosborough photo? I understood
that the kids confessed that hoax already!

-  Larry Hatch






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              Part 1: MJ-12 SOM 1-01 [was Robert Todd on MJ-12]

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 05:24:20 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 11:48:36 -0500
Subject: Part 1: MJ-12 SOM 1-01 [was Robert Todd on MJ-12]


>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@hotmail.com>
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:53:59 PST
>Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:32:13 -0500
>Subject: Re: Robert Todd On MJ-12

Since my reply is long, I am breaking the message down into two
parts.

PART I

See the Joint Statement of SOM 1-01,

http://www.fufor.org/mj12statement.htm

Signed by people that have extensive experience (that is, people
who have been "on the ground") relative to the arguments
presented concerning SOM 1-01. I would not have signed the
statement if I had not had experience in security, in tactical
operations in the field, and writing field manuals. It is one
thing to have manual that purports to tell one how to recover a
UFO, it quite another to execute such an undertaking from the
meager and irrelevant information imparted by this manual.
Imagine for a moment that you are an Operations Officer. Using
this manual and the references provide within the text and the
publication appendix, plan for such a recovery operation
including proper equipment, properly trained personnel, and
proper execution. Consider problems that might be encountered,
trafficibility, access to the site, sustaining such a field
operation, safety of the troops and civilians living in the
area, supply rates of material used, support elements required,
special situation such as operations in unusual terrain (in a
swamp, on a mountain side, etc.), documenting the material,
etc., etc.

If you contend that the operation can be performed using the
information or references in SOM 1-01, than you just don't
understand how elaborate such operations are.

I would ask you to further consider the dialogue about the
SOM 1-01 also on the Fund for UFO Research (FUFOR) site:

http://www.fufor.org/dialogue.htm


>This response has been sent to me in response to Kevin Randle's
>remarks. I think the points are being made regarding the issues
>for the record, but I do not expect concessions, just discourse.

>Bill Hamilton

>From: DrBobWood@aol.com
>CC: rswood@igc.apc.org

>Dear Bill,

>If you would like to post this, we would welcome it.

>Thanks, Bob and Ryan Wood

>Recently, a "Joint Statement" about the authenticity of
>the Special Operations Manual 1-01, "Extraterrestrial
>Entities and Technology, Recovery and Disposal" has been
>posted. Robert and Ryan Wood wrote a rebuttal, and Tom
>Deuley and Kevin Randle wrote supporting the initial
>Joint Statement. We found in our files the initial
>evaluation, never published before, of Appendix C, "The
>MJ-12 Operations Manual" critique by Randle, pp. 285-290,
>in "Conspiracy of Silence," Avon Books, 1997.
>>Although the book has many excellent attributes and is
>indeed recommended reading, the treatment of the MJ-12 topics
>and the Manual were based on faulty assumptions, as noted below:

>Page 285, Par 1

>o Allegation: Evidence exists that the documents are fraudulent.
>o Rebuttal:  No such evidence exists.

>o Comment:  The ability to discriminate the real from the fake
>       is the correct way to view the issue.

You can assert it is real or fraudulent. The key is proof. It is
up to the proponents to prove their case.

>Page 285, Par. 2

>o Allegation: The source is unidentified. Man at gun show
>       did not know source.

>o Rebuttal:  Don Berliner received undeveloped 35-mm negatives
>       in the mail postmarked March 7, 1994, La Crosse, WI.
>       Mailer�s identity is indeed unknown.
>       Lack of provenance is not highly relevant to
>       authenticity.
>       Experts do not have to rely on provenance alone.

What experts? History is full of forgeries and fakes. Provenance
is the main question here. On that issue alone SOM 1-01
flounders.


>Page 286, Par. 3

>o Allegation: A great deal of work went into construction,
>       implying work by faker. Seal included to add
>       visual impact.

>o Rebuttal:  The high quality of the manual is also consistent
>       with production by the USGPO or CIA print shop
>       equivalent. The War Department Seal was used on
>       most manuals of that vintage.
>       Examples abound.

The War Department Seal is used on Army and some joint Army/Air
Force manuals of this era. MJ-12 is supposedly levels above the
Army. Why use its seal? This is nonsense! The War Dept. seal was
not used on the State, Navy, Interior or other such publications
of other agencies. Demonstrate that it was used on publications
of other services and agencies of the time.

The War Department Seal belongs to the Army exclusively.

>Page 286, Par. 4

>o Allegation: The manual is short. It is missing some pages
>       including photos.

>o Rebuttal:  If the manual were authentic, it would have been
>       only long enough to accomplish purpose.
>       Twenty-three frames are consistent with the
>       photographer running out of film in a
>       20-roll.

The manual is completely inadequate for the purpose. Beside the
lack of concrete information, it is loaded with irrelevant
information such as "why is the sky blue." Publications of this
type are suppose to give concise directions and standards for
accomplishing the mission.  See above for just a little example
of the information required.

>Page 286, Par. 5

>o Allegation: Most members of UFO community believe the
>       MJ-12 documents fake. But new document should
>       stand or fall on its own analysis.

>o Rebuttal: "Most members" has no basis in any scientific
>       poll. Yes, the document could and does stand
>       on its own analysis. If the other documents
>       were correlated, it would seem strange to ignore
>       them. There is a distinct possibility that part
>       of the Eisenhower Briefing Document is fake, but
>       that the Manual is genuine.

Part of the Eisenhower Briefing Document is fake? How
interesting? However, that does not make the SOM 1-01 genuine,
by any stretch of the imagination.

>Page 286, Par. 6

>o Allegation: "Eyes Only" is for a specific person; therefore,
>       a manual would be inconsistent with this
>       classification caveat.

>o Rebuttal:  "Eyes Only" is not limited to specific persons.
>        It means that it cannot be copied, but that
>        everyone who sees it must sign a record. This
>        allegation is obviously based on a false
>        assumption.

Classified documents cannot be copied without permission of the
responsible authority. That is part of the security regulations.
It needs no "Eyes Only" for that. Reference anywhere in any
security regulation where "Eyes Only" appears. As I have
discussed, before "Eyes Only" is an order and has no other force
in law, and so would be only applicable to those subjected to
the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. All persons who view Top
Secret documents must sign a record. Once again, the proponents
of MJ-12 do not know >!*basic*!< security procedures in place at
the time and afterwards!

Cite one security regulation that states "Eyes Only" conveys
this meaning. This is made up in the minds of the investigators!


>Page 287, Par. 7

>o Allegation: The "real mistake" is the use of
>       "Restricted" on the cover. This category was
>       canceled in November 1953, and manual date is
>       April 1954.

>o Rebuttal:  The classification alluded to was "Restricted
>       Data." The use of the single word "Restricted"
>       is not a classification but would be limiting
>       distribution. Examples of manuals of the
>       era exist having "Restricted" on the cover in
>       the same style type.

Kevin is correct. The levels of classification were Top Secret,
Secret, Confidential, and Restricted. An Eisenhower executive
order did away with the Restricted classification. NATO and most
other countries still have the Restricted classification.
"Restricted Data" and "Formerly Restricted Data" indicate
nuclear weapons information and are always associated with a
classification, such as Secret Restricted Data (SRD),
Confidential Formerly Restricted Data (CFRD), etc., etc.

If examples abound of manuals with "Top Secret" and "Restricted"
in 1954, supply just one! Once again, the it is obvious that in
two years of research the investigators learned very little
about basic security procedures!

>Page 287, Par. 8

>o Allegation: If document does not conform to regulations,
>       it implies hoax. Documents at this level would
>       be closely monitored.

>o Rebuttal:  There is no evidence that the document does not
>       conform to the regulations of the era. In any
>       case, this group, according to the document,
>       could set their own rules.

Well, this is a good one. If it has the War Department seal on
it, maybe we should expect that it would conform to Army
regulations and doctrine which it doesn't, see above.

Continued in Part 2.

--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135






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               UFO UpDate: Part 2: MJ-12 SOM 1-01 [was Robert

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 05:33:13 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:08:50 -0500
Subject: UFO UpDate: Part 2: MJ-12 SOM 1-01 [was Robert


PART 2

>Page 287, Par. 9

>o Allegation: Pankratz of the Eisenhower Library is cited
>       as saying MAJIC EYES ONLY never existed.

>o Rebuttal:  Eisenhower Library would not have been given
>       this data if the classification were genuine.
>       Probably NSA does not know either. This
>       classification is seen on documents only
>       after 24 September 1947. Lack of official
>       record does not discriminate. Officials will
>       not release anything that is defined to be not
>       for public inspection.

This is assumption without proof, the archivists have access
to a much wider range of documents since they have access to
still classified materials at the archives. Obviously, this
archivist is in a better position to know.

>Page 288, Par. 10

>o Allegation: A real manual would not contain an obsolete
>       classification mark.

>o Rebuttal:  Same old argument about "Restricted." See
>       examples in same type style. The level of people
>       authorizing would have been the same level
>       establishing the classification rules.

>Page 288, Par. 11

>o Allegation: If the classification is a mistake, need
>       examples of similar mistakes from authentic
>       documents.

>o Rebuttal:  At the Top Secret level, most documents are not
>       declassified yet, especially Code Word and Eyes
>       Only. In addition, classification level in the
>       Archives is not a category. Several documents
>       at lower levels include "Restricted" and
>       the War Department logo.

The National Archives is loaded with tens of, probably hundreds
of thousands of formerly Top Secret documents. Of course,
classifications level is a category in the archives: "Top Secret
Incoming/Outgoing Messages," "Top Secret USAF Current
Intelligence Files."  I have shipping lists from SAC concerning
transfer of Top Secret documents to the Records Holding Area,
documents are listed by their Top Secret Control Numbers. One
wonders how knowledgeable the SOM 1-01 investigators are when
they make statements like the one directly above.

>Page 288, Par. 12

>o Allegation: The security level of "2 points above Top
>       Secret" does not exist. Text says, "no
>       special group such as MJ-12 exists."

>o Rebuttal:  The purpose of this sentence would be consistent
>       with impressing the 1954 reader. One "point"
>       might be the Code Word MAJIC, and the second,
>       "Eyes Only." The directions about the existence
>       of the group are totally consistent with an
>       authentic manual's objectives: fully covert
>       operations. Gen. Groves had a file "Above Top
>       Secret."

Just provide some security regulation that enumerates the
"levels above Top Secret." Groves little file has nothing to do
with post World War II security procedures which were
established in presidential executive orders.

What "might be...." is not good enough by a long shot. This goes
back to the old "27 levels above Top Secret" bull! If you are
going to punish a violator under Federal Law, remember that is
written into the security statement on the SOM 1-01, the
definitions and violations have to be enumerated somewhere.

>Page 288, Par. 13

>o Allegation: (Preceding) "paragraph is utter nonsense." There
>       are no classifications above Top Secret.

>o Rebuttal:  There may be no classifications above Top
>       Secret, but the Manhattan Engineering District
>       records may not be available, and they had
>       their own rules. In the absence of
>       detailed (classified) Classification Management
>       Directives from this era, we do not really know.
>       Not a discriminator.

Just provide one reference that supports this contention!
Executive orders under Truman and Eisenhower standardized and
regulated the handling, marking, and access to classified
information in 1954. Going back to what existed in World War II
is not relevant. New standards were established after WW II.

In research for my article "Investigating the Ghost Rockets"
(Winter 1998, International UFO Reporter, available from CUFOS,
2457 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659), I looked at thousands
of formerly Top Secert documents from the Navy, Army Air Force,
Army, CIG, State Department, etc., all of the documents met the
standard. The different agencies had different ways to
implementing the executive orders, but the results were
basically the same.

Please note that in the declassification process most cover
sheets and Top Secret records sheets and document control
records are discarded. In the USAF Top Secret Current
Intelligence files most of these items are available for
inspections.

>Page 289, Par. 14

>o Allegation: Special Compartmented Information (SCI) would
>      modify Top Secret legitimately.

>o Rebuttal:  True statement. Top Secret=97MAJIC could have
>       been a legitimate compartment designation, as the
>       precursor of what we now call SCI. The current
>       security procedures have their roots in the past,
>       of course.

That, of course, may possibly be the case, then there is no
reason for the rather silly "levels above Top Secret" bit.

>Page 289, Par. 15

>o Allegation: "Two points higher than Top Secret is ridiculous"=97
>       "There is no such classification."

>o Rebuttal:  Same argument as Par. 12. See rebuttal there.
>       Today=92s classification guidance is nearly
>       irrelevant to what went on in 1954 or so.

What is this answer suppose to mean? That no one is familiar
with 1954 security procedures? Nonsense!

When I went through the Security Managers Course each
president's executive orders were discussed as these orders had
applicability to the current security procedures. The Woods seem
to imply that if you were not around in 1954, you can't have
knowledge of 1954 security procedure.

>Page 289, Par. 16

>o Allegation: There is no need to explain or justify the need
>       for the high classification. ("Ridiculous")

>o Rebuttal:  The classification of UFO recoveries and alien
>       bodies is easily justified, as something the public
>       should not know. The security of the program was
>       one of the main objectives, according to the manual.

>Page 289, Par. 17

>o Allegation: "The smoking gun proving the manual to be a hoax
>       is...several references to Area 51 and S-4."

>o Rebuttal:  Deep research shows that the Government in 1951
>       obtained this geographical region for covert
>       purposes. The references are still classified.
>       This material is very impressive, and
>       cannot be obtained easily.

>Page 290, Par. 18

>o Allegation: Designation Area 51 did not come into use
        until late 1950s. Thus, manual is a fake.

>o Rebuttal:  Same as above. The story of this land is deeply
>       classified, even today. The initial Air Force memo
>       released regarding the manual redacted all
>       discussion of Area 51 S-4 in the
>       unclassified version.

I have not real knowledge in this area. The arguments claim that
such facilities did not exist in 1954. However, change pages
were supposedly incorporated into the manual up to 1957. So the
argument about when Area 51 was operation may not be valid as
the changes incorporated go up to 1957.

However, that brings up another problem: none of the supposed
changed pages indicate that they have, in fact, been changed.
None of the pages which we have available for examination and
which indicated that they should have been changed has any
annotation to the effect that the pages were changed. That is
against regulations--for the military, at least. Of course,
there is the "catch 22," MJ-12 personnel follow regulations
unless they don't want to. However, if one doesn't annotate the
changes, how does one determine if the changes have been made?

How is anyone to determine if the changes have in fact been
made? This is incredibly stupid, at the very least.

>Page 290, Par. 19

>o Allegation: A lot of time was spent by someone creating
>       the manual but the had not understood the
>       classification system.

>o Rebuttal:  A lot of time has been spent trying to replicate
>       them to conform with USGPO practices of the time,
>       unsuccessfully. The nominal Adobe Monotype Modern
>       does not quite match the manual. If the manual is
>       authentic, it was created with a Monotype machine
>       that used a mechanical spacing technique with
>       triangular shaped wedges. Today=92s machines cannot
>       replicate the fonts and spacing. Anyone who claims
>       that it is easy should try to do just one page with
>       1993 software.

I can't speak to this, however, the difficulty of the task, does
not mean it can't be accomplished. Look back to the Strait
letter. The same arguments were used about obtaining State
Department stationary. However, in the end, it was obviously
that Gray Barker accomplished this very easily.

>Page 290, Par. 20

>o Allegation: There is no doubt that the manual is nothing
>       more than a fake. It does not conform to the
>       regulations, contains inaccurate information,
>       and is incomplete.

>o Rebuttal:  A summary of specious claims. No objective
>       tests have been offered to discriminate between
>       real and fake. The weight of the evidence is
>       overwhelmingly consistent with an authentic
>       document.

>Overall, the concerns raised by Randle do not include all
>those offered by the Air Force. He failed to cover the
>allegation that 1954 radars could not determine shape (they can,
>given several data records or air-to-air recordings); or that
>the manual in 1954 mentioned downed satellites as a
>legitimate argument to convince the nosy public to go away.
>It can be shown that the public would have been quite familiar
>with the reality of satellites.

In 1954, if you told the public you had a downed satellite, when
none had been launched yet, that would have caused a sensation
and attracted every reporter around. They would have charted
planes to fly over the site and tried every means to get inside
and have a look. There would have been demands in Congress to
know what was going on. Of course, every spy in North America
would try to find out about a downed satellite, before there was
known to be one. Instead of diverting attention from the site it
would attracted much unwanted attention which could lead to
additional security violations and the possible total loss of
all security. Incredibly, the Woods contend that this all makes
sense. I certainly wonder how many others feel this way.

>Furthermore, since the manual was first made available for
>research, a "change control" page has been found that clearly
>indicates the exact date of update of each changed page and
>the typed initials of the change control authority. This was
>published in "The Majestic Documents," available at 800-845-2151.
>Other naysayers had said that such a page must
>exist, and it does.

This "change control sheet" does little to help the MJ-12
argument. There is no indications that the changes were in fact
made. Having seen numerous change sheets during my career in the
Army, one would expect over the years to see different type
faces and other things. This was too hard for the fabricators of
the SOM 1-01. It was also too hard for them to make up changed
pages.

Also, as pointed out by Tom Deuley, why does it take days to
remove old pages and replacement with new pages. Just how silly
is the MJ-12 group; they replaced page 35 at 1595 hours 10 Nov
54. First off, that is not the proper way to write date-time
groups. However, 1595 hours, oh yes, MJ-12 doesn't have to
follow regular time on the clock, they can add minutes to hours
if they feel like it!

>We will respond to Tom Deuley=92s extensive and thoughtful
>comments later.

>Wood and Wood Enterprises.
>Robert M. Wood and Ryan S. Wood



--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135






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   Apr > Apr 2

                Brisbane, Australia Sighting Report 03-04-99

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:10:04 +1000
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:12:22 -0500
Subject: Brisbane, Australia Sighting Report 03-04-99


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail  tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw


Sighting Report followup callin code: 00063

Mrs  Rea Eleanor Barton
Location: Kippa - Ring Brisbane
Day: Thursday
Date: 4th 3 1999
Time: 11.15pm to 11.55pm

"I remember looking at the time as I slipped into bed - it was
11.15pm onThursday 4th March 1999. I faced the open window
(security screen installed). It was a very, very clear evening -
the first fine night following the heavy rains which Brisbane
and south-east Queensland had experienced. I noticed an object
in the north-eastern sky with blinking/flashing red, green and
orange lights. Immediately I thought an aircraft was coming into
Brisbane airport. I had observed this object through a
particular diamond-shape section of the security screen. But I
noticed that it never got any closer or moved out of my vision
of it through that 'diamond'.

I immediately got out of bed and went to the window to further
observe. This object definitely flashed red, green and orange.
It looked like a over bright star, but also seemed a little
large to be a star. Whilst it didn't move any great distance in
the sky, it seemed to be hovering in its own very tiny orbit.

I was so intrigued by this sighting that I watched from the
window for some time, then I went to the 2nd bedroom window,
(also facing north-east) and I observed the same object, still
doing the same thing. I moved to other windows of the house to
observe stars in the sky, trying to reinforce my thoughts that
this object in the north-east was 'more than a star' perhaps.

At about 11.40pm-ish, I felt I had to report what I observed, so
obtained the UFO Hotline number through Telstra information
(1800........number). I continued to watch the object, but
didn't observe anything different from first noticing it.

At times, I thought I could hear an engine noise - like a
helicopter or the like - but can't be definite as to whether the
noise was emanating from the object or whether it was another
engine noise from some other source. I climbed back into bed at
11.55. The object was still visible through the 'diamond' of my
security screen. Then I fell asleep."


Regards Diane Harrison








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                     Project SIGN Research Center - URL

From: Wendy Connors <ProjectSign@email.msn.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:51:10 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:15:38 -0500
Subject: Project SIGN Research Center - URL


The Project SIGN Research Center has a new home. It can be
accessed at:

www.projectsign.com

The site is being updated and all new material should be
available for viewing by Monday, April 5th.

Thank You

Wendy Connors







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                        Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX

From: John Majhor <johnnym@idirect.com>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 09:16:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:22:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX


>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:19:12 -0700
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
>Subject: Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX

>>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:48:14 -0500
>>From: John Majhor <johnnym@idirect.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX

>>This is actionable behavior which calls into question his
>>ability to function in a logical, intelligent manner in proving
>>his own claims. Artbell's site has been hacked, but it appears
>>to be by Serbian Militant hackers,  not "RAM" Stephens.

>Let's see 12:01 last night til now is what day? Art Bell most
>likely did that hack himself. It was pretty impressive, however
>the webmaster at beograde.com wasn't amused one damned bit,
>since the hoax linked to his site.

>As for "proving his own claims"..many, many of us have been
>waiting years for _Hoagland_ to do just that. You and others may
>sputter and wheeze about Stephens, but his list of questions to
>Hoagland is an excellent start. Exactly when do you suppose
>Hoagland will ever address the issues raised by the questions?

>For a good laugh visit - http://skepticult.org/artpar/


Well, Don, as I mentioned in my own mea culpa to the list, they
got me good! I'll bet the webmaster at beograd.com might have
been pretty pleased to get the message out with the aid of an
American broadcaster. That's a switch from all the CNN rah-rah.
(I feel the US Networks are exploiting those captured/abducted
soldiers every bit as much as Slobodan & Co. are doing).

What sets the Hoagland/Bell et al  Vs "RAMS" thing in Richard
and Art's favor, IMO, is the steady and stable presentation of
the scientific "possibilities" of what Art presents (well, at
least most of it...you gotta laugh at a proportionate amount of
B***Sh** on not only his show but Rense's as well...puhleese)
and what Richard states and goes the extra mile to show via his
website and public lectures.  "R.A.M." on the other hand has
been shown to be extremely erratic in his behavior...from  meek,
mild mannered "I just want to play out the truth" to
megalomaniacal threats and fury..which have never come to
fruition. As a broadcaster myself, I don't believe any item put
forth on the air as entertainment or "you make up your own mind,
you're an adult" has to be necessarily 1) verified  2) villified
if proven to be false or a hoax  3) apologized for, if
outrageous or beyond the pale in believability.

I'd vouch for the passionate, idiosyncratic, sometimes
questionable veracity of a Richard Hoagland than a bogus,
threatening R.A.M. Stephens any day of the week. That Stephens
poses a list of questions makes him no more credible or worthy
of defending than anyone else. He's a johnny-come-lately riding
on the coat-tails of Art's success and preying on the easy
gullibility of Jeff Rense.

Bottom line?

While all of us in the UFO community want to believe, some of us
are skeptical while some fall for every doctored picture or
faked video that comes along.

Why? Because we want (no, _need_) to believe that there is an
explanation for all of the strangeness in our universe! We want
answers for those multitudinous questions that have plagued us
from the beginning! The reasons for the existence of ufology and
paranormal pursuits are the same as the reasons there is
religion. Make sense of it all. Put order into those things we
see, but don't see...feel but don't know for sure.

I love the mystery...the intrigue...this is more fun than
religion.

Have a Good Friday!

jm






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                        Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX

From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:50:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:25:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX


>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:48:14 -0500
>From: John Majhor <johnnym@idirect.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Art Bell Banning and UNIX

>This loser is one of the prime reasons the entire UFO Community
>is taken as a haven for idiots and loonies by many people who
>have little or no knowledge of the community's pursuit of the
>truth.

Absolutely an understatement.

>This is actionable behavior which calls into question his
>ability to function in a logical, intelligent manner in proving
>his own claims. Artbell's site has been hacked, but it appears
>to be by Serbian Militant hackers,  not "RAM" Stephens.

>Richard's site is operational as is Keith's.

>Dissent is one thing. Sabotage and threats are another.

>Such a sad case.


Good mail.  Loser?

Odd.


-- -- sincerely,


Robert A.M.Stephens
NASA Documentation Program
Stillwater Mills-Aerospace
KSC-PIB/shuttle/MSF
406-745-3818
sti3818@montana.com
http://198.116.116.10/gallery/arts/samples/.html
http://cdfnet.com/RAMSES/
http://www.cdfnet.com/INTERVIEWS






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                          UK Sightings Statistics?

From: Neil Doyle <neil@station1.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:23:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:28:25 -0500
Subject: UK Sightings Statistics?


Dear all,

Is anyone aware of a reliable estimate for the total number of
UFO sightings in the UK last year?






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                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:36:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 14:24:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:23:24 -0500

>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:13:35 -0800 (PST)
>>From: Scott LeGrand <varelse@best.com>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>One short comment: isn't it possible that some of these scientists
>>that looked at the evidence, actually did so in an objective way,
>>and concluded that it was lacking?  Why is it the minute someone
>>expresses skepticism about the reality of UFOs, they're accused
>>of losing their objectivity?  That doesn't sound very objective
>>to me...

Absolutely not...

>Hello Scott,

>To express skepticism towards the existence of UFOs generally
>implies ignorance of the data available during the last 50 years
>or so.

Most of the sceptics I know, certainly those in Britain, have
come to their conclusions _after_ spending many years in UFO
investigation. People like Andy Roberts, Dave Clarke, Peter
Rogerson and myself all started in the UFO field genuinely
looking for something unknown and probably extraterrestrial. As
the lack of evidence piled up, so our views became more and more
sceptical. This applies to most of the French researchers as
well. So don't paint all sceptics as outsiders pushing their way
into the UFO field to "debunk" it!

>All, and I mean ALL, the 'skeptical' opinions I have ever read
>or heard regarding the reality of UFOs presented one or all of
>the following flaws:

>1. Ignorance of the data at hand;

>2. Deliberate ignorance of the data at hand.

>Can an opinion based on ignorance (deliberate or not) be
>considered objective?

>No.

>Can it be considered scientific?

>No.

>Of course, we are not talking here about specific cases

Of course we're not talking about specific cases, because as has
been proved over and over again here on UpDates, the ETHers are
unable to come up with any cases that they are prepared to list
as evidence for extraterrestrial intervention. Instead we get
airy-fairy armwaving about the "weight of evidence".

Unfortunately the weight of an awful lot of nothing is nothing.

How can we possibly have any rational discussion of the UFO
phenomenon if we do not discuss specific cases and weigh them
individually?

I know it's a hopeless question, and Serge Salvaille has
specifically ruled himself out from answering it, but I'll try
again: can we have a list of the ten UFO cases giving the best
evidence for an extraterrestrial origin for the UFO phenomenon?

I won't hold my breath.

--
John Rimmer
www.magonia.demon.co.uk
Abandon hope all ye who press Enter here







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        =?iso-8859-1?Q?UFO_UpDate:_More_Strange_Lights_Over_It=FA,_?=

From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:29:11 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 14:47:42 -0500
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?UFO_UpDate:_More_Strange_Lights_Over_It=FA,_?=


More Strange Lights Over It=FA, S=E3o Paulo

Folha da Cidade Newspaper

It=FA, S=E3o Paulo, March 20th 1999

By: A. Vicente de Paula Neto and Eduardo Santinon


After several appearances, the main two weeks ago, strange
lights returned to color the sky of the city and scare the
residents.

In the district of Itaim, Gabriel de Carvalho Filho, resident at
the Residential Sete Quedas, watched again, with his wife, a
true ballet of objects.

The Folha da Cidade's reporter, Eduardo Luiz Santion,
photographed the objects and watched for 15 minutes, with others
witness, the evolution of the objects.

Researcher Ute Minna Luise de Paula, also resident at the
Residential Sete Quedas, saw part of the "show" of the lights,
on Tuesday, said that the shape and motion of the objects
disqualify the possibility that those lights could be stars or
baloons."

"The velocity and the intensity of the lights, as well the quick
changing of color do not allow us to think these objects are
known".

Gabriel Carvalho Filho does not believe that terrestrial craft
are able to perform the manoeuvers that the 3 objects did.

Francisco Bento Feitosa, who works at the Residential Sete
Quedas, agrees. He simply lost his breath when he saw the
lights.

He did not believe in UFOs, but his faith was firmly shaken on
Tuesday night.

With other residents of Sete Quedas, pointed several glowing
objects, that in spite they look like stars, they remain fixed
in the sky.

Since the first sightings of the lights, on February 23rd, 1999,
several people, whether they believe in UFOs or not are now
watching the sky all evening.

On the weekend, residents in the neighborhoods located in higher
areas, also sighted "strange" lights.

Clarice Fukuda was one of them, and through her window, noted
the abnormal behavior of a couple of lights in direction of the
Gaplan s building.

Her husband told her that it was a helicopter, but she wasn't
convinced and looked for the lights again, but they had
disappeared.

______________________

Thiago Luiz Ticchetti

Diretor Do Departamento de Publica=E7=E3o e Tradu=E7=E3o Especializadas
(DEPTE - EBE-ET/Brasilia-Brasil)
Director of the Publication Department and Specialized Translation
ICQ - 35119615








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                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:46:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 14:49:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:13:35 -0800 (PST)
>From: Scott LeGrand <varelse@best.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>One short comment: isn't it possible that some of these scientists
>that looked at the evidence, actually did so in an objective way,
>and concluded that it was lacking?  Why is it the minute someone
>expresses skepticism about the reality of UFOs, they're accused
>of losing their objectivity?  That doesn't sound very objective
>to me...


Perhaps some have and have come to that conclusion, just as
others (such as Hynek, McDonald, Hill, and others) have come to
the conclusion that the evidence suggests a phenomenon which
should be of interest to science. Still, I have never seen
material which indicates that OEH (Objective Existence
Hypothesis) opponents have ever taken the degree of interest in
the full body of evidence that would be required to come to a
completely objective conclusion. Indeed, that would require
years of study.

The problem is that for most scientists, the data they are
seeing isn't the best data - in fact, most scientists base their
judgements on the UFO phenomenon from the events in the popular
media, which bear little or no resemblance to the actual facts
of the matter. Very few scientists, for instance, have ever
visited a physical trace event or are aware of catalogs of such
events. The same is true for EM effects, medical effects, etc.
Indeed, very few scientists have probably ever done even one
field investigation, never mind the tens of such which would be
needed to truly have a knowledge of the raw data. Without an
awareness of how pervasive, consistent or founded the data is,
the scientist thus takes the problem out of its context and
simply says "how absurd". That position is made easier for him
by the various nutball characters who populate the field with
unjustifiable pronouncements of knowledge which they could not
have developed scientifically (Hoagland, CSETI, etc.).

An additional problem is that there is a sort of vicious circle
here - the scientist states that the data is not good enough,
but does nothing to improve it, and since non-scientists can
only go so far in improving it with spare time and no funding,
the idea that the UFO data will _never_ be good becomes a
self-fufilling prophecy.

Personally, I think that the only ability we have to change
mainstream scientific opinion is to do the best quality amateur
scientific work we can and hope that the amassing of a body of
such work will be attractive to scientists and will gradually
reduce the presence of the kooks and cranks.

Don't get me wrong. I don't _blame_ scientists for their
opinions. From their viewpoint, they are well-founded. The
challenge is to change that opinion. It won't be done by debate
or adversarial events, however. It will be done when the mass of
good solid historical and physical / social science work in the
field outweighs the stuff from fairyland.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo.htm
------






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                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:54:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 14:50:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:23:24 -0500

>All, and I mean ALL, the 'skeptical' opinions I have ever read
>or heard regarding the reality of UFOs presented one or all of
>the following flaws:

>1. Ignorance of the data at hand;

>2. Deliberate ignorance of the data at hand.

>Can an opinion based on ignorance (deliberate or not) be
>considered objective?

>No.

True enough, but you forgot...

3. Deliberate distortion or omission of key data (Klass'
analysis of the Coyne sighting and many, many other examples too
numerous to cite from his work, Menzel's work, Kottmeyer's work,
etc.).

4. Advancement of a hypothesis without any verifiable evidence
to support it (Exeter was a hoax, Socorro was a hot air balloon,
Gill saw a mirage...)

>Can it be considered scientific?

Of course not.

>Of course, we are not talking here about specific cases, or the
>Strieber show.

No one who saw it could mistake "Confirmation" for science.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo.htm
------






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                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:10:10 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 14:55:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:13:35 -0800 (PST)
>From: Scott LeGrand <varelse@best.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:53:15 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>On Tuesday March 30th at 10:00pm EST, Sightings on the Radio and
>>Jeff Rense will be hosting a debate between Stanton Friedman and
>>Lawrence Krauss. Stanton needs no introduction but many of you
>>may not be aware of who Krauss is.

>One short comment: isn't it possible that some of these scientists
>that looked at the evidence, actually did so in an objective way,
>and concluded that it was lacking?

No.

>Why is it the minute someone
>expresses skepticism about the reality of UFOs, they're accused
>of losing their objectivity? That doesn't sound very objective
>to me...

Because they do not demonstrate a sufficient level of
objectivity, as a rule. They merely have a high level of the
usual testosterone pap, indicative of the debunker.... to
witt... sarcasm combined with horsehocky which of a sufficient
leve to make a maggot vomit.

My opinion... debunking must be seperated from scientific
skepticism. The line which separates these two details is not as
fine as some choose to believe. If you audited that Rense show,
you would, I think, have witnessed that the attempt to reconcile
skeptical science with debunking failed. We won.

Last, usually the read of the debunker's opines allows more fun
than anyone can have with their clothes on. Which is why Klass
is better'n sex. Well, maybe not exactly... but close.

Remember Gesundt during this holy season..... send money!

Dr. Morty






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                         Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:03:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:18:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples


>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:30:39 -0800
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples

<snip>

>>I think we need to use more imagination when talking about
>>aliens. How about taming bacteria, like it was a pet and
>>sending it off to do some work. I don't know...I'm rather joking
>>technologies. It just seems too 90s!


>Dear Kathleen:

>I'm sure the next 20 or 50 years will bring amazing advances in
>technology. But, old technologies don't really die, they just
>fade away!

>In the 1960s they were writing funeral dirges for the stodgy old
>vacuum tubes found in every old radio. Those went, but VTs are
>still found in nearly every desktop computer screen and
>television set (the CRT). Radio stations (the main power
>transmitter tube) Radar, microwave ovens and transmitters ..
>the list goes on.


Have you looked into a modern hi-fi amplifier of the type
preferred by electronic musicians (including guitar players)
recently?

TUBES ARE BACK!
(blew my mind, too. How well I remember the ol' favorite
6L6 in push-pull or, for real power, push-pull parallel....
yup!  Modern circuits use tubes along with transistors to
get that "analogue tube-sound")






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                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:03:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:20:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:57:27 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:13:18 -0500
>>Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:09:15 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>>Regarding:

>>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:26:34 -0500
>>>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Obviously, _overall_ their shape was "round" and "saucer" shaped.
>The problem comes with the _exception_ to the overall rule, namely
>the cutoff in the back, leading to a more "bat-shaped"
>appearance as Arnold said early on. The question is in the mode
>of description. Does one stick to the overall appearance
>("saucer" shaped) then note the exceptions, or strive to come up
>with a supposedly more exact descriptive label ("bat") that may
>not in fact be exactly correct either? I can understand Arnold
>vacillating between such options as he was hounded by the press.


>That said, I am nevertheless bothered by the fact that no one
>else in the 1947 flap ever saw objects shaped like Arnold's,
>with only one possible exception (a suspected hoax apparently).

How about Fred Johnson,... who apparently saw the tail ends more
clearly with something moving back and forth. Also, Trent saucer
shows a "tendency" toward a convex shape over one portion of the
edge (at about the 10 o clock position on the ellipse)






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                              Filer's Files #13

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:59:47 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:39:21 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #13

Filer's Files #13-1999

MUFON Skywatch Investigations

George A. Filer
MUFON Eastern Director
Majorstar@aol.com
(609) 654-0020

April 2, 1999

ATTACKS ON YUGOSLAVIA SLOW UFO REPORTS IN THE US. NATO has
embarked on attacking Yugoslavia to protect the lives of an
ethnic Moslem minority in Kosovo. This is not unlike our entry
into the war in Vietnam, where I fought. We are traveling down a
very dangerous path that is likely to intensify and again we
find ourselves in a possible conflict with Russia. We are
attempting to stop Yugoslav President Milosevic, the former
Communist leader who is a disastrous despot. He has ordered
atrocities and the deportation of thousands of Albanians during
ethnic cleansing operations. We should realize that we are
unlikely to accomplish much without inserting several hundred
thousand ground troops into this easily defended mountainous
terrain. Only an extensive ground war with heavy casualties are
likely to change Milosevic's intentions. I ask are we prepared
to spend extensive national resources and lose the lives of our
military over Kosovo? Is this course of action wise, and is it
the will of Congress, the American and the European people? I
doubt that anyone wants another Vietnam? Be prepared for the
entry of our combat troops and the increased sightings of UFOs
over the region like there were in Vietnam, Korea and WW II.


NEW HAMPSHIRE AND MAINE

Tom McFarland, the Vermont MUFON State Director reports, I
received the following two reports concerning March 30, 1999,
sightings. The first is from Sandee Black, MUFON Section
Director of Coos County, NH. "Last night, between 9 and 9:30 PM,
I was in Conway, NH and saw the most beautiful falling star I
have ever seen." "At first I thought it was a UFO but then it
dropped and changed colors to a blue-green -- just beautiful."
The second is from Ned and Carol of Berwick, Maine. "On my way
home from work Tuesday night, in the town of Berwick, ME. I saw
a comet-like object, bluish-green in color with a long tail that
broke off into balls as it flew across the sky." It was much
larger than any shooting star that I've ever seen. It didn't
appear to be coming through the atmosphere like shooting stars
do, but seemed like it might be a few thousand feet up. It also
was traveling much much slower than any shooting star I've ever
seen! Thanks to Thomas McFarland at nightowl@together.net.


PENNSYLVANIA

SMETHPORT -- Monday night, March 15, 1999, several glowing UFOs
were sighted in northern Pennsylvania near Highway 59 about 123
miles southeast of Erie. "A woman driving home to Bradford, PA
looked up to see a blue streak racing across the sky."
"Confirmation has come from Doris Ladlee, who was sitting at
Gallico Crossing in Smethport and Sandy Bennett. "Doris tells us
she was sitting at the crossroads at 11:31 p.m. when, 'the car
lit up like broad daylight, and I saw a great big ball of fire.'
A dazzling array of sparks followed as the object dropped. She
said she was looking eastward at the time, and the object had a
head and a tail like a comet. There was no noise. It appeared to
be heading (northeast) towards Port Allegany." "I thought that
maybe a plane blew up," she added. Her son also saw it a couple
of miles to the south. To him, it looked like a blue streak
across the sky--not a fireball like she had seen." "'It looked
kind of like a big bright firework, only it was too high up in
the sky to have been that,' Doris reported. "Mercedes tells us
''I saw the large flash. I thought it might be helicopters but
there was no noise.'" "Sandy Bennett said she was driving into
Wilcox when she saw 'a big round ball. I think it had a blue
fire thing after it, and sparkles. It went up very fast. (See
the Bradford, Pa. Era for March 23, 1999.) Thanks to Scott
Corrales, and UFO Roundup Vol. 4 #13, 4/28/99 Joe Trainor
Editor.


NORTH CAROLINA

CAMDEN -- On Tuesday, March 23, 1999, at 7:30 p.m., Jared R.
driving on Highway 343 saw something strange hurtling across the
night sky 165 miles east of Raleigh. "A bright object, traveling
left to right across our field of view, at a descending angle,
appeared to be glowing from friction like an object reentering
Earth's atmosphere," Jared reported. "Had a vapor trail and a
fire trail, much like a shooting star."Object moved much slower
than a shooting star and although it seemed to be burning from
friction with the atmosphere, it never got smaller or burned
out." "The color was blue-white. The speed was comparable to a
jet aircraft that might have been making a low pass. As it got
lower and to our right, the view was blocked by trees. It gave
the appearance of being five to ten miles from our position,
somewhere over Elizabeth City (NC)." Thanks to Jim Hickman of
Skywatch International.


SOUTH CAROLINA

CHARLESTON -- A Professor teaching in a small, private
university writes, "I would like to keep my name anonymous." I
was standing on the porch of my beach house, at Folly Beach, SC,
looking out at the ocean. It was the middle of August just after
sunset on a clear night when I happened to notice this cylinder
floating from west over my left shoulder. It was moving east out
over the ocean. At the time I compared it to an old style car
fuse, a tube, and flat at both ends. It had lights (windows?)
running the length of the body and no wings. It was flying
"point" first like an arrow, but had a weird kind of a "float"
to it. I chalked it up as some sort of blimp, but later saw a
picture on a web site of a similar object that had been taken in
Georgia. That one, however, didn't feature lights along the
length of the body. The description above matches mine, and I
find it odd that this is at least the third "cigar" type craft
that I've read about reported in the southeast over the last
year. Anyway, the object finally faded out over the ocean after
being in view at least four minutes.


GEORGIA

William I. McNeff Assistant State Director of Minnesota MUFON
writes regarding the Georgia March 13, 1999, sighting reported
in Files #11 that states.  "--three greenish-blue rectangles
"sitting" in front of a ridge line only a half-a-mile away.
Looking at 220 degrees, the identical rectangles had an apparent
length equal to the moon." In this northern portion of Troup
County, on at least one occasion, steady, glowing green lights
have been found in and on top of the soil. It can be speculated
that biological or Piezoelectric activity may be creating
strange lighting patterns." Mc Neff writes, "I have a BSEE
degree and a long-standing interest in science and physics, and
I know of no natural aerial phenomenon that can produce a
near-perfect rectangle." Biological activity can produce near
perfect spheres (oranges, grapes, swarms of insects, etc.), as
can piezoelectric activity (earth strains may produce balls of
electricity like ball lightning). These natural forms typically
depart from the spherical shape by either flattening at the
poles, to the point that the object becomes cookie-shaped, or
stretching at the poles, to the point that it becomes a cigar
shape. In my opinion, the rectangle shape indicates manufacture
by intelligent beings, as does the sudden switching off the
three lights. Thanks to William McNeff WILLIAM.I.MCNEFF@cdev.com


CALIFORNIA

LA VERNE -- Neal reports: I just have to get this into someone's
hands, because I'm clueless, myself. The story may sound a bit
outlandish, but I can't help it. It's the truth. Yesterday
morning (Monday 29 March 1999) at 04:00 AM, I awoke with a
start. My room was rattling as if there were an earthquake. I
looked out my window and saw something I'd never seen before.
There was a bright orange sphere way up in the eastern sky. It
was moving westward. As it seemed extremely high from my vantage
point, it's speed across the sky startled me. I was more
startled when it stopped and hovered. After a moment, it began
to soar southbound. Eventually, it stopped again, hovering
silently way up in the sky. I was shocked. All my life I've been
fascinated with UFO's and the paranormal. This was the first
time any of it entered my reality. So, I woke my family up. My
mother, father, and two brothers all saw the same thing: the
sphere hovering in the sky. Then it started doing something
particularly interesting. It let loose several projectiles that
each went a different direction and then it simply vanished.
Winked out, so to speak. I searched for it in the sky with
binoculars but didn't find it. I spotted something totally
different. It was odd, Grey cube-like object, but had rounded
corners. It was truly immense! My naked eye could see it against
the dark sky but only barely. And it rotated as it floated to
the horizon. I didn't know what to make of all this. I called
NASA in the morning. They directed me to the US Space Command,
where I was told that it wasn't "space debris. They directed me
to you and to the National UFO Network. I would simply like to
know what it was, and whether or not there are others out there
who have seen something similar. Thanks to SirNeal@aol.com

ANTIOCH -- In northern California, a UFO flap took place on
Highway 4 about 45 miles east of San Francisco on March 11,
1999, around 9:00 PM. "Joan Garter and a score of other East
County residents stopped dead in their tracks to observe some
mysterious glowing lights hovering over Delta in the northeast
skies." 'They were very bright white color, 'I think they were
like airline towers. There was nothing attached to them. They
were like something floating.' She reported the sighting to the
Times newsroom. Kyle Bennett, rejected the explanation that it
was an airplane or a helicopter. The only thing I might buy is
that it was a hot-air balloon. It was all lit up. Bennett, who
pulled over on Highway 4 with other drivers to observe the
sight, said there were five lights. 'They were perfectly
separated, almost in an upside-down U-shape, and the one in the
middle was the brightest,' Bennett said." "Over ten minutes, the
lights dimmed and went out one at a time after they appeared to
drop flares." (See the Contra Costa Times for March 12, 1999)
"Strange lights seen hovering over Delta," by Charles Levin.
Thanks to Gerry Lovell.


STRANGE CONTRAILS OVER NEW JERSEY PENNSYLVANIA

PITTSBURG -- In the last several weeks strange contrails have
been reported over many parts of the US. Stan Gordon writes
"When this activity began, the skies were blue and clear, but as
multiple contrails began to fill the sky, they did not appear to
quickly dissipate, and the sky in some areas seemed to hold the
contrail matter for an extended time. The jets seemed to be
doing some maneuvers and several X patterns were observed. I
received a report that similar activity was noticed over the
Oakland suburb of Pittsburgh just after noontime."

PHILADELPHIA -- Charlie Quinn March 30, 1999, I live in the
scenic town of Chadds Ford only 5 minutes flight time from
Philadelphia International Airport. For over a month now I have
witnessed the grid like contrails being formed on a REGULAR
basis. At first I thought it was vapor trails from the jets
themselves but their crossing patterns defied that explanation.
Jets do not cross one another in flight=97 not if they practice
safety. These contrails develop the characteristic haze after
they spread out. Thanks to CQuinn5630@aol.com

NEW JERSEY -- Chuck and Cathie Warren saw the contrails over New
Jersey not far from the Philadelphia Airport and became
concerned. Chuck took numerous photographs on Wednesday, March
17, 1999, at 9:00 AM that appear unusual. Some of the contrails
are in a crisscross pattern with others in parallel lines. These
may be viewed at the Website at www.wrfieger.com/contrails.htm.
Thanks to cewncew@jersey.net (CewnCew)


THE PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT

ATLANTIC CITY -- Lacy McCrary of the Philadelphia Inquirer
writes: The truth is out here. It is in a hospitality room of a
boardwalk hotel, with some old salts sitting around
white-clothed tables laughing at reports that their ship was
involved in a top-secret World War II experiment. Sailors who
served on the USS Eldridge, the ship that legend says vanished
briefly in 1943 at the Philadelphia Navy Yard, met here this
week for their first reunion in 53 years and spent part of their
time joking about the so-called Philadelphia Experiment. The
Eldridge, they said yesterday, may well have been invisible to
Philadelphia because it was never in Philadelphia. The ship's
log and several veterans who were on the ship from its launching
on July 25, 1943, at Port Newark, NJ, say it called on many East
Coast ports, but never Philadelphia. Two movies, two books and
several Web sites have kept the myth about the Eldridge alive.
As the story goes, the destroyer escort was surrounded by a
greenish fog, disappeared for a few minutes, then reappeared.
But none of the veterans believes it. "I think it's somebody's
pipe dream," said Ed Wise, 74, of Salem, Indiana. Ted Davis, 72,
of Grand Island, Nebraska was more emphatic. "It never
happened," he said. Bill Van Allen, 84, who was executive
officer and then captain of the Eldridge in 1943 and 1944, said
he never saw any sign of experiments aboard the ship. The Navy
said it had received so many inquiries through the years about
the Philadelphia Experiment -- the title of a 1984 movie, a 1993
sequel and two books -- that it prepared and sends out a fact
sheet. The Navy said the myth dated to 1955 with the publication
of The Case for UFO's by the late Morris K. Jessup that claimed
the ship become invisible and was "teleported" to and from
Norfolk, Va., in a few minutes with some terrible aftereffects
for crew members. Research during the war was conducted on
degaussing [demagnetizing] experiments which have the effect of
making a ship undetectable or 'invisible' to magnetic mines,"
but not invisible to the eye.


CAUS NEEDS EVIDENCE

CAUS now has an opportunity, with its lawsuits against the
Department of Defense and the individual States, to take UFOs
out of the realm of entertainment, and into the light of the
courtroom. CAUS now has an opportunity to take another nail out
of the coffin of secrecy and reveal the truth of our contact
with another intelligence. But in order to do this, CAUS needs
evidence. Evidence in the form of expert testimony; evidence in
the form of eyewitnesses; evidence in the form of videos;
evidence in the form of photos; and evidence in the form of
physical artifacts. AFFIDAVITS The following e-mail from M.S. is
an example of the support CAUS requires: "I'm the woman who
witnessed a triangular craft in Lemont, IL. with my daughter on
3/11/99. I am so sorry that it has taken me this long to write
to you. I have downloaded the governors letter and affidavit
form today. I will have the affidavit notarized tomorrow, and
will mail all to you. CAUS has received 9 affidavits and cannot
emphasize more the need for affidavits from eyewitnesses. If you
live in Arizona, CAUS needs your affidavit if you were a witness
to any type of UFO or Personal Contact Experience. If you live
outside of Arizona CAUS needs your affidavit if you were an
eyewitness to a triangular UFO only. The affidavit form can be
found on the CAUS Website: http://caus.org.


ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSE WEAPONS

Kent Steadman, Editor of ORBIT writes High Power Electromagnetic
Pulse generation techniques and High Power Microwave technology
have matured to the point where practical E-bombs
(Electromagnetic bombs) are becoming technically feasible, with
new applications in both Strategic and Tactical Information
Warfare. The development of conventional E-bomb devices allows
their use in non-nuclear confrontations. This paper discusses
aspects of the technology base, weapon delivery techniques and
proposes a doctrinal foundation for the use of such devices in
warhead and bomb applications.  Thanks to Ken Steadman ORBIT
http://members.aol.com/phikent/orbit/orbit.html


FOOTAGE FROM STS-61 (Hubble Telescope Repair Mission) -

Paul Anderson Director and founder of the Millennium Project
states. "Considering recent new interest in incredible UFO video
footage from the Space Shuttle STS-48 and 80, I have decided to
re-release some related compelling footage on the STS-61 the
Hubble Telescope Repair Mission of December 1993." There are at
least 13 "significant events" showing possible UFO activity.
Event #1: Bright, fast moving object crossing view of Earth in
night shot over Gulf of Mexico. Event #2: Bright "flashes" below
shuttle, over Houston area that was probably lightning. Event
#3: Two fast moving "projectiles" move diagonally across screen,
one following the other, in similar trajectory and direction and
at (apparently) similar speed. Event #4: One bright object
moving horizontally across screen, another light "flashing" in
distance, out beyond the telescope that was released from the
shuttle. Event #5: Slow moving light "flashing" out past shuttle
with a view of open cargo bay. Second object "flashing"
brightly. Third (non flashing) object slowly approaches the
second flashing object. Limb of earth now in clear view. Event
#6: Bright, slow moving object approaches limb of earth. Night
time shot with a low light camera. Background stars appear to
move "away" from limb of earth; object moves in opposite
direction. Event #7: Dim "flashing" light in space behind
astronauts working on telescope. Event #8: Three or four
"strobing" lights out beyond telescope. Another bright object on
other side of screen. Event #9: Couple of objects moving behind
astronauts as they work on telescope. Event #10: Two objects
"strobing," in an alternating manner and maintaining position;
third dimmer object moving away from them. Telescope in full
view. Event #11: Bright object moves slowly behind astronauts.
Event #12: Bright object near limb of earth, slowly moving
downward. Event #13: "Disk" with dark center seen as camera
zooms in on region of space near earth. These events were
sometimes filmed during periods of little or no shuttle activity
and often the camera will pan off when events are occurring.
Thanks to Paul Anderson editor Millennium Report 3/1/99.


ABDUCTIONS

John Thompson MUFON State Section Director writes there seems to
be many views on abductions, but we all seem to be encountering
much of the same data. The investigator's slant has much to do
with it. Left-wingers probably believe more in the space
brothers while right-wingers are more prone to look at the
negative evil aspects of it. The fact that no one can get around
is that there is no conclusive physical evidence of anything
happening. When you consider there was no evidence 1000 years
ago either--and the stories are similar--it seems to be
consistent that the evidence has never been there. It is
tempting to say all the phenomenon is of one origin: INT or ET.
But I go out on a limb on this and say both of it is real. I
base this on numerous personal investigations. Most longtime
investigators start off blaming ET for the abductions. As they
dive into the subject more, they start leaning towards the
inner-dimensional angle. Whitney, Jacques, Raymond and others
come to mind. Then they start coming back to the ET
thesis--because that is really what every good UFO investigator
wants to believe; so much simpler! The fact is we got to sort
aliens from UFOs. And there is where the main complication comes
in: If you accept nuts and bolts craft are coming here from
another planet then, why don't the occupants of the ships ever
come outside? We send unmanned ships to Mars, so its possible
the craft observed are do not contain aliens. Folks see UFOs,
and then shadow like creatures in their bedroom and,
understandably, presume those beings are the same creatures that
piloted the strange lights they saw a few months ago. Its a
hell-of-a predicament, that's for sure! But frankly, I wouldn't
write our uneducated ancestors off as being wrong on this
matter. While they may not have college degrees, they were much
more attuned to nature than us. Put it this way: Who do you
think would know more about where to find plants and food for
survival and locate stars and planets better for navigation? An
Indian or hunter who lived in the woods his entire life, or you
or me? I think the answer is simple! I think even a sheepherder
of today would have us beat! Which individual would be more
likely to meet these strange creatures: A farmer living in an
isolated hut on the edge of dark woods or an office-worker in a
crowded subdivision? Another simple answer! These folks while
not understanding what "demons, fairies, gnomes, trolls, ghosts,
spooks, dwarfs, etc." constituted, certainly had more experience
to draw on by living in or closer to the raw elements. We have
lost that sensibility, living indoors and taking a total
scientific approach to everything. While "dicing and slicing" is
good, I think this phenomenon has been around since man or
earlier and your raw instincts count for something. So what came
first: The egg or the chicken? Is this all demon stuff that is
now incorrectly being called extraterrestrial or were our
ancestors in the wilds entirely wrong on what they thought it
was? As I said, I am on a limb but I believe and INTs coexist at
times on the same playing fields. Where I disagree with some
investigators is that I think the vast majority of alien
sightings are of the INT variety as opposed to ETs. I don't have
an answer on why those ET creatures don't get off their ships
often but, maybe -- like our Mars missions -- most of the ET
UFOs we see carry no occupants. Nah. I really don't believe
that. I have no answer! Thanks to John Thompson. Editors Note:
Many of our investigators are seriously questioning the concept
of alien abductions. Does anyone know of even one person we can
question that actually saw an abduction in progress?

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MUFON JOURNAL For more detailed investigative reports subscribe
by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or E-mail
Mufon@aol.com. Filer's Files Copyright 1998 by George A. Filer,
all rights reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on
their Websites provided that they credit the newsletter and its
editor by name and list the date of issue that the item
appeared. Send your letters to me at Majorstar@aol.com. If you
wish to keep your name confidential please so state.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 2

                ...And Now For Something Completely Different

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:53:43 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 18:58:01 -0500
Subject: ...And Now For Something Completely Different


Honored List --

Far be it from me to lend any more air time to those
abominations of communication -- the ten-ten series, but I have
to remark on the commercial regarding "10-10-3-4-5"!

You've seen it -- the one with the chatty announcer introducing
baseball's 3rd, 4th. and 5th best hitters?  The 4th doesn't wan
to "ruin" the chatty announcers "gig", but he doesn't hit (or
something)?

Early in the commercial, the first third anyway, tucked deep
into the hard blue of a "national pastime" kind of sky is a
flitting white object that is neither plane, bird, nor insect.
I've seen it several times on different channels, so I'm sure
it's in the commercial. Has anyone else noticed it?

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

--
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more.
Consider Matter, Mind & Movement.
See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration.
Take a ride in the Teleporter.

Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
<Updated 2 April>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 3

                   *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *** 4-2-99

From: Rense E-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:05:47 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 01:20:22 -0500
Subject:  *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News ***  4-2-99


***Jeff Rense Weekly E-News***

The Week Ahead
4-4-99 thru 4-10-99

Guests, Announcements, Week's Top Stories
From sightings.com

Jeff Rense E-News is distributed exclusively by
Free Subscription.


*** From Jeff's Desk***

March obviously did NOT go out 'like a lamb.' We have all spent
the week, most in an appalled state, watching the growing
conflict in Yugoslavia. Trying to separate the disinformation
from the reality of claims by NATO, the Serbs, and the Albanian
KLA is almost an impossibility. Propaganda is no longer the
province of the international power brokers... anyone with a
computer, scanner, and modem can join the game.

Skepticism has never been more of a requisite in trying to deal
with an international crisis.We've tried to post news of the
events from ALL sides for your consideration.

A few have sent angry notes, "How dare you post Serb
propaganda!?" ...while others have said, "How dare you post
Clinton NWO propaganda!?"We will continue to bring you a
sampling of stories and images from numerous sources as well all
try to make sense of another Balkan powder keg...almost a carbon
copy of the events which triggered WWI and cost the lives of
millions of young men.

April began with an unfortunate episode on the net in which Art
Bell and his webmaster, Keith Rowland cooked up an April Fool's
'joke' which allegedly saw their website 'hacked' by Belgrade
cyber warriors. Many believed the ruse but analysis by several
net pros revealed the hoax rather quickly which was then
followed by the official announcement from Art that it was all
just a prank.Unfortunately, it gave the appearance that Art's
intentions were to have a laugh at the expense of the death,
suffering, and destruction in Yugoslavia and it didn't find a
favorable response with many of his listeners and site visitors.
Neither we nor Art approve of the general course of events in
the Balkans but playing games with the tragedy left many of his
fans less than pleased.

We heard some truly outstanding background reports on the crisis
from David Icke, John Whitley, and Sherman Skolnick which are
well worth listening to in the Archives.We'll keep updating the
situation with analysis and more data as we are able.

Most unique show of the week was the UFO Debate between Stanton
Friedman and Dr. Laurence Krauss on Tuesday.Lots of
fireworks...perhaps best summed up by this post fight summary
(have fun):


The Fight

News you won't read in the New York Times:
"Krauss KnockedOut In The Tenth!"

It was the most anticipated bout of the new year - a fight that
pitted Laurence Krauss, a young, brash, talented heavyweight
against the wily veteran of over 35 years of UFO ring wars,
Stanton Friedman.

Krauss brought with him a highly-touted reputation and blue chip
Harvard/Yale pedigree. A product of the Mainstream Academic and
Media establishment, Krauss had accumulated a long string of
victories and was the young darling of the intellectual science
establishment. Speed and power were his hallmarks.

Many knowledgeable fight experts said that Krauss's sharp jab
and vicious right cross would soon put the veteran Friedman on
the canvas. Although Friedman has been UFO establishment's
reigning champion for many years, some muttered it had always
been a hollow championship. After all, the UFO community was
supposedly made up of no-talent, punch-drunk, airheads, and
fools. What could Friedman be expected to do against such a
young powerhouse with his glittery professional background?

Friedman's fists answered that question quickly. After two
tentative rounds, marked by numerous clinches, the veteran of
over 700 worldwide lectures and countless radio and television
bouts, opened the third with a barrage of savage head and body
punches that soon left Krauss bloodied and dazed. Krauss never
really recovered and his legendary articulate counter punches
became feeble and seemed to bother Friedman little more than
raindrops in a Spring shower.In fact, most of Krauss' efforts
seldom made solid contact with the elusive Friedman who had
clearly studied Krauss carefully and knew his weaknesses.

>From then on, Krauss had to resort to crowding the champion and
trying to tie up his arms to avoid being taken out completely.

For the rest of the ten rounds, Friedman simply toyed with the
younger but outclassed and underprepared Krauss, who clearly had
made the mistake of not taking Freidman and his trainers
seriously. Referee Jeff Rense was criticized in some circles for
not stopping the one-sided pounding earlier than the tenth.The
crowd alternately cheered Friedman and booed Krauss... many
expecting the younger fighter to have been much better prepared
than he was. Krauss, in fact, even said that he had 'better
things to 'do with his time' than to study Friedman's techniques
and his legendary data before the bout.

At last, late in the tenth, Krauss, thoroughly spent, a mass of
perspiration and rivulets of crimson, finally slumped to the
canvas and Rense pronounced the fight over.At the time of the
knockout in the tenth, the three scorekeepers had it 7-1-1, 7-2,
and 6-1-2 for Friedman.

In defeat, Kruass graciously accepted an invitation to actually
study some of the champ's materials for the first time in his
life, and further offered a public apology to author Whitley
Strieber over some of his handler's remarks about Strieber in an
earlier NY Times editorial.

- Jeff Rense (with gracious thanks to Lance Culp for this
concept)


*** TOP STORIES***

 Just a few of last week's most intriguing!

 http://www.sightings.com



* U.S Warns Defiant N. Korea Against Further ICBM Missile Tests

* Sticky Chemical Can Help Severed Nerves Grow Back Together

* Raining Pesticides In Europe - Rainwater Undrinkable

* NATO Bombing Said To Be Failing - Latest TiM Bulletin On
Crisis

* NATO Website Under 'Cyber Attack' By Belgrade Hackers

* Russia Readies Forces - Confers With China, Iran

*'Mad Cow' Prions Now In Birds? Bald Eagle Disease Now In Ducks

* Don't Laugh - Russian Sub For Sale

* US Running Low On Cruise Missiles? - Inventory Levels Worry AF

* WWI British Pilot UFO Sightings Described

* Anti-Bacterial Products Doing More Harm Than Good?

* Copycat 'Melissa' Virus On The Loose Already

* Our Solar System: A Sharp Contrast To Recent Finds

Read these fascinating articles and dozens more at

http://www.sightings.com

All stories are saved and archived in our huge DataPages section

---<+>---

*** FEATURE ARTICLE***

Kosovo - Last Stop Before Jerusalem...
By Barry Chamish
[Barry Chamish is an Israeli journalist.]

 JERUSALEM - Barely a few days before the EU and the US,
collectively called NATO, sent their flying dogs of war against
Serbia, Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu was in Berlin
meeting with the leaders of the European Union. You would think
with the attack on the Balkans pending they'd be too busy to
have time for a little tete-a-tete with Bibi...But, no; they
organized their most fateful meeting with an Israeli leader
since the beginning of their continental unity. They told him
he'd better not stand in the way of a PLO state with East
Jerusalem as its capital or watch out.

 The watch out part was Kosovo. Netanyahu  got the message and
like the Yugoslav president Milosevic before him, flew to Russia
for some counterweight. And lo and behold, the Kremlin greeted
him like visiting royalty. When the meetings were over, Bibi and
Boris agreed to make a united stand against "Islamic
fanaticism." What they meant to say, but could not, was that
both Israel and Russia were sick of the New World Order plots
against their nations and they were forming a, probably futile,
little alliance against the Trilateral Commission, Council On
Foreign Relations (CFR), Bilderberg group and all those who were
now heating up the Balkans, and Chechnya, and Turkey and
everywhere else where ethnic tensions could be turned into
massacres.

 Undoubtedly, both leaders are well aware of how it's done. Take
a busload of Christian Lebanese children, blow it up, blame it
on the PLO and before long you've got perfectly civilized
Christians killing Moslems out of raw bloodlust. Or take a Serb
village, or more if necessary, have some Bosnian Muslims kill
every living being within and before long, you'll get just the
right kind of savagery from the Serbs.

Read the entire text of this story at
http://www.sightings.com
-------------------


*** THIS WEEK'S GUESTS***
 4-4-99 thru 4-10-99


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 Dr. James C. Jamieson:
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 Dr. Mark Ladley, MD:
 Anti-Aging Forumla Breakthroughs

 Jay Shubel:
 Latest IRS-Y2K Developments


MON 4-5
 Dr. Vendyl Jones:
 The REAL 'Indiana Jones'!


TUE 4-6
 Ted Phillips:
 Over 600 UFO Evidentiary Trace Cases


WED 4-7
 Michael Lindemann:
 Weekly UFO-ET Update

 Greg Braden:
 Human Spiritual And Cosmic Awakening


THU 4-8
 Chris Morton/Ceri Louise:
 Mystery Of The Crystal Skulls

 Lorraine Day, MD:
 Y2K And The Threat To Your Health


FRI 4-9
 LIVE From England - Nick Pope:
 'The Uninvited'


SAT 4-10
 David John Oates Reverse Speech Show.
 The discoverer of RS does reversals
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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 3

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 99 21:39:15 PST
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 01:08:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:36:57 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:23:24 -0500

>>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:13:35 -0800 (PST)
>>>From: Scott LeGrand <varelse@best.com>
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


Patient and gentle listfolk:

>Of course we're not talking about specific cases, because as has
>been proved over and over again here on UpDates, the ETHers are
>unable to come up with any cases that they are prepared to list
>as evidence for extraterrestrial intervention. Instead we get
>airy-fairy armwaving about the "weight of evidence".

Anybody who reads John's provocative, if remarkably
unpersuasive, magazine Magonia ends up learning a whole lot
about how the UFO phenomenon looks from the viewpoint of the
librarian and the English major -- that, of course, is of some
mild psychosocial interest in itself -- and little of anything
substantive about the body of puzzling cases of which (as here,
once more) John professes never to have heard.

Instead, where we would expect to see real investigation,
research, and cogent analysis, we are treated yet again to the
spectacle of arms waving bravely in defense of a lost cause, the
PSH, which has never taken us anywhere except into that
comfortable psychological, social, and cultural space where we
can still be interested in UFOs yet insulate ourselves from
ridicule from elite opinion by assuring would-be jeerers that we
are not, in truth, heretics at all.  This, in fact, may be the
PSH's dirty little secret: cost-free ufology for those seeking
the cover of a position unthreatening to bourgeois
respectability.

And yet, curiously, John was kind enough to give a good review
to my UFO Encyclopedia, which is full of solid cases recounted
in detail, along with extensive bibliographic citations for
further reading. Likewise the basic works in the serious UFO
literature, with which John is either unfamiliar or, more
likely, being wholly disingenuous about, relate those great
cases that John so wishes out of existence. And why, given his
shaky intellectual position, shouldn't he?  I mean, whom would
any sensible person trust on, say, the RB-47 case? Brad Sparks
or John Rimmer?  Or the McMinnville case?  Sparks and Bruce
Maccabee, or Peter Rogerson?  The Coyne case?  Jennie Zeidman or
the PSH's favorite debunker, Phil (Ufology Is Tantamount to
Communism) Klass? The patterns in the data?  Mark Cashman or
Martin Kottmeyer?  EM cases? Mark Rodeghier or any Magonian you
can name?  Science and the UFO evidence?  James McDonald and
Michael Sword or the most touchingly devout PSHer you can think
of?

Nothing personal against John, who's a good, bright, and
thoroughly amiable guy (who, at least physically, towers over
all of us), not to mention a living monument to one psychosocial
consequence of the UFO phenomenon.  I do think, though, that he
really ought to get out more. Or, if he insists on staying
inside, he should at least catch up on his homework.

Cheers,

Jerry Clark






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 3

                          Chat with Dr. Roger Leir

From: Diana Botsford <diana_botsford@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 19:23:38 PST
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 01:13:04 -0500
Subject: Chat with Dr. Roger Leir


The UFO Community on MSN is available at:

http://communities.msn.com/ufo/default.asp.

All chats are accessible by using either our built in chat page,
MS Chat or any IRC client.  The chat server name is
publicchat.msn.com and the channel/room name is #briefing.

========================================
Chat with Dr. Roger Leir
The Aliens & the Scalpel
Saturday, April 2nd
1pm, PT

The field of Ufology is set with many land mines, challenges and
frustrations. And perhaps the most complex and difficult topic
within the study of UFOs is the unsettling area of Abductions
and the even more disturbing claims of Alien Implants. Claims
have been made, with little science behind them to actualize the
theories. Until Dr. Roger Leir surgically removed 8 anomalous
alien implants.

A special 2 part Audio Interview is now available online at
http://communities.msn.com/ufo.

=========================================
Overheard in our chat room and newsgroups:

*Kosovo & ET Techology: Is NATO's newly tested EMP techology a
case of recovered alien techology? Join the discussion.

*Abductions: The crossover between dreams and reality?

=========================================

Chats This Week at the UFO Community on MSN:

SATURDAYS - Abductions - 1pm, PT - 9pm, GMT
SATURDAYS - General Discussion - 6pm, PT
SUNDAYS - The Politics of UFOs - 6pm, PT
TUESDAYS - This Week in the News - 6pm, PT
WEDNESDAYS - Ancient Connections- 7pm, PT
THURSDAYS - UFO Skeptics - 7pm, PT
FRIDAYS - The Science of UFOs - 8pm, PT

Our chat room is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for
discussion relating to any UFO issues.  Meet your friends and
make new ones.

===============================

Featured at the UFO Community on MSN:

***Audio Interview with Dr. Roger Leir.
Into the fold of chaos we all know as Ufology, comes a matured  Dr.
Roger Leir a podiatrist from Thousand Oaks, California.  Why do I say
matured?

Because this man has taken the time to do the research, develop
a criteria for study, and has actually held surgically removed
implants in his hands 8 times.  Implants that he personally
removed.

And he has taken the time to detail this journey into a
disturbing world for us in his new book "The Aliens & The
Scalpel" This compelling and intriguing work takes a serious
look at the scientific and medical aspects of the alien
abduction phenomena. It is a story of not only scientific
research but explains how the author, who started as the
consummate scientific skeptic, became thoroughly convinced that
humans all over this planet are being tampered with by another
intelligence.

A short background on Dr. Leir. The author is a Podiatric
Physician and Surgeon who has been in private practice for
thirty four years.  He is the founder of FIRST (Fund for
Interactive Research and Space Technology) and long with Derrel
Sims, C.Ht., R.H.A., a certified hypnotherapist, co-founder of
FIRST and experienced UFO Investigator of over 27 year,
orchestrated the successful surgeries with a team of competent
medical professionals and volunteers. The first set of "implant"
surgeries took place on August 19, 1995 at Dr. Roger Leir's
podiatry clinic in Thousand Oaks, California. Funding in part
was given by the National Institute of Discovery of Science, one
of the Bigelow Foundations.

Along with Bill Stockstill, Section Leader for Abductions, I
recently caught up with Dr. Leir and spoke with him regarding
his work. . .

A revealing two part audio interview at:

http://communities.msn.com/ufo.

***The Screening Room Reviews: Dr. Leir's "Aliens & the Scalpel"
Reviewed by Bill Stockstill - Section Leader for Abductions
"Well, where's the proof?" That is perhaps the phrase that comes
up most often when the subject of UFOs is discussed. Dr. Leir
knows. He's held it in his hands.
Enter the Screening Room at http://communities.msn.com/ufo.

***From the Project: watchfire files:
Eddie Bullard -- Anatomy of UFO Abductions
More and more people these days are reporting that they have
been abducted by aliens. Is this really happening? Or are these
stories just space-age lore? In a landmark study, folklorist
Thomas 'Eddie' Bullard has uncovered some intriguing findings. .
. .

Bullard has been researching this phenomenon for two decades.
After completing his doctoral thesis UFOs as a Modern Form of
Folklore at Indiana University in 1982, he launched a
comprehensive comparative study of alien abduction reports
worldwide, UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery (Fund for
UFO Research, 1987). He has continued his analysis, by
cataloguing more than 1000 accounts, and updating his findings
in various journals.

***Editorial:  What if ET Really Isn't Smarter?
ET Represents A Higher Level of Intelligence...
But What if They Don't?

========================================

***Volunteers Wanted:

1)Our Publicity Department is in need of enthusiastic individuals who
would like a free MSN account in exchange for assistance.
2)Must know basic HTML.  You will receive a free account with MSN in
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Publisher/Forum Manager
UFO Forum
http://communities.msn.com/UFO

- - - - - -
"To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought . . .
To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield."
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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 3

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:24:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 01:25:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description


Regarding recent comments on this topic, with Bruce's reference
to the enigmatic Trent photographs appreciated and duly noted,
the following observations and questions are essentially cross-
posted from related discussions elsewhere.


Taking care of one issue first of all.

>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 00:49:26 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description

>As to motion, what did make it into the 1947 press was Arnold's
>repeated descriptions of how they weaved and dipped together in
>single file, "like the tail of a kite." He also described them
>flipping and flashing in the sun like fish. But nothing about
>skimming or skipping motion. Maybe he said it, but you don't see
>it.

For easy reference, as confirmed on the 'Project 1947' web site:

"Norman, Oklahoma Transcript - June 26, 1947

[=85]

PENDLETON, Ore., June 26 -- (U.P.)-

He [Arnold] landed here, slightly bug-eyed, Wednesday and told
how he spotted the "extremely shiny nickle-plated aircraft"
skimming along at 10,000 feet on Tuesday".


>How many times do we have to go over this until you British
>skeptics get it?

Maybe if you check your facts and learn some manners, any other
points you make will be of interest. Having reached your first,
expected and ill-informed derogatory remark, what makes you think
anyone would waste their time reading further?


Continuing..

In the 'Pendleton, Oregon East Oregonian', on June 26, 1947, Bill
Bequette reported, "The Boise man, who owns the Great Western
fire control supply which handled automatic fire fighting
systems, described the objects as 'flat like a pie pan and
somewhat bat-shaped'"

The 'Oregon Journal', June 27, 1947, reported that Arnold, "clung
stoutly to his story that he saw nine shiny crescent-shaped
planes or pilotless missiles flying in formation", adding that
Arnold claimed, "They were half-moon shaped, oval in front and
convex in the rear".

Were the unidentified objects which gave birth to 'flying
saucers' therefore actually 'bat-shaped', 'crescent-shaped' or
'half-moon shaped'?

Only the latter description appears to conceivably resemble the
sketch which Arnold sent to Wright Field in July 1947.

Did Arnold actually mean quarter-moon, i.e. crescent, shaped?

A copy of Arnold's sketches are included in the web presentation
of Martin Kottmeyer's article, 'Resolving Arnold - Part 2: Guess
Again', at URL:

http://www.reall.org/newsletter/v05/n07/resolving-arnold-part-
2.html


How can Arnold originally have described 'bat-like' objects, then
produced a sketch which doesn't resemble one, yet subsequently
featured in his book the photograph of a 'model' which shows that
crescent or definitely 'bat-shaped' object?

A copy of this photograph can be seen on my web site under
'Flying Saucers - the Genesis'.

There's a new location for my web site and it's now at URL:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/


We're aware that Arnold later claimed one of the nine objects was
different from the others and explained he had never got around
to clarifying that at the time.

I haven't seen it confirmed, presuming it's known, whether the
'bat-shaped' object featured in his book supposedly represent the
eight similar ones or was the 'ugly duckling'.

Is it known?


If the bat-shaped, not even close to a 'saucer', photograph is
intended to be a more accurate representation of the eight
similar objects Arnold claims to have seen, then presumably his
Wright Field sketch was a 'rough' drawing?

Conversely, if this precisely bat-shaped and crescent-shaped
model is representative of the one object Arnold later said was
different from the others, a point he had never revealed, then
how can this be equated with the fact he reportedly described all
the objects as bat-shaped and crescent-shaped?


An aspect which must surely be of equal, if not greater
significant, is Arnold's subsequent reported observation, which
he described in 'The Coming of the Saucers':

"It was on the morning of July 29, 1947 that I took off from a
private cow pasture near my home.

[..]

It was a perfect day to fly. The air was sharp, moist, clear as
crystal and smooth as silk. There is something of a real thrill
in flying on a day like that.

[..]

Within an hour I was over Baker, Oregon.

[..]

I began to let down over North Powder, Oregon in preparation to
land at La Grande when I noticed above me and about ten miles to
the right the Empire Airline's old Boeing, also coming in to land
at La Grande. There is something about having company in the air
that always seems pleasant and friendly. I rocked my wings at him
in a gesture of hello and continued my let down until I was
directly over Union, Oregon at 5,000 feet.

I recall looking at my instrument clock which read about five
minutes to seven. As I looked up from my instrument panel and
straight ahead over the La Grande valley, I saw a cluster of
about twenty to twenty- five brass coloured objects that looked
like ducks.

They were coming at me head on and at what seemed a terrific rate
of speed. I grabbed my camera and started rolling out film. Even
though I thought they were ducks when I first saw them, I wasn't
taking any chances.

The sun was at my back and to my right. These objects were coming
into the sun. I wasn't sighting through the viewfinder on my
camera but was sighting along the side of it. As the group of
objects came within 400 yards of me they veered sharply away from
me and to their right, gaining altitude as they did so and
fluttering and flashing a dull amber color.

I was a little shocked and excited when I realized they had the
same flight characteristics of the large objects that I had
observed on June 24. These appeared to be round, rather rough on
top, and to have a dark or a light spot on top of each one. I
couldn't be absolutely positive of this because it all happened
so suddenly. I attempted to make a turn and follow them but they
disappeared to the east at a speed far in excess of my airplane.
I knew they were not ducks because ducks don't fly that fast.

After a few minutes I gave up the chase and continued to let down
at La Grande. I phoned Dave Johnson from there and related my
experience but told him not to print it. I knew he had more than
a newsworthy interest now in flying disks. I questioned the whole
crew of the Empire Airlines ship to see if they had seen this
cluster of objects, too. If they had seen them, they would not
admit it, but there is a good possibility they did not see them.
They were on almost their final approach to the La Grande
airfield, their plane being much faster than mine, and this
cluster of objects at the time would have been seven to nine
hundred feet above them.

I heard later that several farmers in the vicinity of Union had
observed what they thought a peculiar cluster of birds that same
morning. I did not know of this until much later. Actually, they
flew in a cluster more like blackbirds than ducks but each one
was larger than a duck. I should judge some twenty-four to thirty
inches in diameter. They rather wheeled on edge, flipping as they
went as efficiently as when they were flat in reference to the
surface of the ground. That morning I was pretty disappointed
that no one around the airfield had seen them, to my knowledge.

I am fully familiar with the La Grande Valley, the reservoirs,
streams and lakes that are all over this area in the summer and
you can be sure, on the conservative side, that I felt positive
these things were not birds. I was curious as to what my movie
film had recorded. Later, after it was developed, I found that my
movie try was not very successful. Only one or two of these
objects could be found on my film and you could see them only
under a jeweller's glass".


This must be one of the largest 'multiple UFO' reports on record,
especially from a pilot.

Of momentous importance is that Arnold notes, "I was a little
shocked and excited when I realized they had the same flight
characteristics of the large objects that I had observed on June
24".

Logically, it seems likely these objects had the same origins as
those spotted previously.

In his book, Arnold describes how the June 24th objects
"fluttered and sailed, tipping their wings alternatively and
emitting those very bright blue-white flashes from their
surfaces".

These new unidentified objects were "fluttering and flashing a
dull amber color".


Further, Arnold initially thought the earlier sighting was of
geese, then dismissed this possibility because the objects were
apparently travelling too fast. A similar situation arose in the
second sighting, Arnold again deducing the 20-25 objects could
not be birds, specifically ducks, as they wouldn't have flown so
fast as he perceived.

If the latter was merely a flight of birds, probably ducks as
Oregon is prime duck country, then Arnold believed they displayed
the same distinctive flight characteristics as the former and
similarly flew too fast for him to catch up with them.

In which case, who could have any confidence that his landmark
sighting wasn't also simply of birds. Would it not in fact have
to be concluded they were, as he attributed the same
distinguishing features to both.

Both reported sightings therefore seem to stand or fall together.


Conversely, if the original 9 objects were advanced aerial craft
of unknown origin, then that cluster, or formation, of 20-25
brass-coloured objects may truly have been 'UFOs'.

Wasn't this therefore a fundamental occurrence in the history of
'flying saucers'?


Wondering whether Arnold meant the actual size of the 20-25
objects was only 2 or 3 three feet in diameter, it looks like he
did, as he compares them to the 'large objects', observed on June
24th.


In short, there are only two logical conclusions.

Firstly, that Arnold's sighting of 20-25 small, brass/amber
coloured objects were almost certainly of birds and added to the
documented errors he made in calculating the altitude of the
original 9 objects, it's testimony that his celebrated account of
those 9 objects, with the same flight characteristics, is not
trustworthy as evidence of 'alien spacecraft'.

Alternatively, he witnessed 9 'alien spaceships' and only a few
weeks later saw another 20-25 small alien craft, either piloted
by tiny extraterrestrials or remote controlled and the original
objects were either 'bat-like', 'crescent-shaped' or, as per the
Wright Field sketch,'heel-shaped', yet somehow 'saucers'.

Even if the latter is accepted, as a foundation for the perfect
disc-shaped, then 'upturned saucer-shaped' and 'double saucer-
shaped' (a la 'Billy Meier') 'UFOs' which followed, it seems to
have a somewhat less than comfortable foundation.


Unless answers to the above questions may indicate otherwise,
evidently, there appears to be no foundation at all.



James.





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 3

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 00:14:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 01:33:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:36:57 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

<snip>

>I know it's a hopeless question, and Serge Salvaille has
>specifically ruled himself out from answering it, but I'll try
>again: can we have a list of the ten UFO cases giving the best
>evidence for an extraterrestrial origin for the UFO phenomenon?.

>I won't hold my breath.


It's not a hopeless question.... but it apparently hopeless to
get any agreement. It seems to me we've been along this route
before on this mail list. Arguments over individual cases seem
to degenerate into name calling.

The _first_ step is to determine whether or not there are any
for which there is general agreement that they are _unexplained_
by conventional phenomena. _Then_ we can try to decide what they
may represent. (Mind you, the deep skeptics/debunkers reject the
idea that any case cannot be explained. Ex: PJK's famous
statement that there is no case for which he hasn't been able to
find a "prosaic explanation." Whether said explanation mamkes
any sense or not seems to be irrelevant.  Ex. one of the New
Zealand sightings of Dec 31, 1978, involves color movie film of
a light flashing bright white to a dimmer triangular arrangement
of red and orange lights. PJK asserts that the prosaic
explanation is that the cameraman filmed a red flashing light on
top of the aircraft from _inside_ the aircraft by filming the
reflection off a rotating propellor. Optical Physics proves that
film of the flashing red light could not create pure white
overexposed images. This proof was carefully explained to Friend
Phil over many months of discussion.... but that didn't stop him
from publishing this "prosaic explanation" in his book  "UFOs,
The Public Deceived".... in which he deceived the public!)

So anyway, you want ten?

Try these.

Feb. 28, 1904
ABOUT 600 MILES OFF THE COAST OF CALIFORNIA
(USS Supply sighting of three "remarkable meteors"
Yes, I know this "violently contradicts" the recent analysis
of Barry Greenwood..... but I think he is wrong!)

June 24, 1947
KENNETH ARNOLD (NOT geese or pelicans or the most recent,
meteors)

June 24, 1947
FRED JOHNSON (first unexplained sightings in the BB file, where
Arnold's sighting has a "prosaic explanation":  mirage)

April 24, 1949
CHARLES B. MOORE AND NAVY PERSONNEL

May 24, 1949
ROGUE IVER, OREGON (Case 10 of Special Report#14)

April 27, 1950
WHITE SANDS MOVIE FILM (of high speed objects
at 150,000 ft, 30 ft in diameter traveling over
White Sands test area after a rocket launch; height
and size determined by triangulation)

May 11, 1950
McMINNVILLE, OREGON (Trent photo case;
Trent's died couple years ago, without
"confessing")
July 2, 1952

TRINDADE ISLAND (Baruna photos)
April 24, 1964

SOCORRO, NM (Zamorra sighting)
Sept. 13, 1966

GEMINI 11 in orbit (photos unidentified)
Sept. 19, 1975

TEHRAN, IRAN (Iranian jet case)
December 31, 1978

NEW ZEALAND SIGHTI NGS (multiple witness,
Air Traffic control tape, reporter's tape, 16 mm
color movie film; some of the best documented
radar/visual/photographic sightings ever)

August 9, 1980
KIRTLAND AFB (landed UFO sighting by Sandia
Security Guard)

December 2, 1981
COLUMBIA, CT (multiple witness, photographs)
(probably no one ever hear about this one....
only published in FATE mag,._)

November 14, 1986
JAPAN AIR LINES OVER ALASKA (Terauchi)
("prosaic explanation #1:  Mars and Jupiter
"posaic explanation #2" [when #1 obviously failed]:
moonlight reflecting from clouds)

November 1987 - July 1988
FIRST PHASE OF GULF BREEZE SIGHTINGS
(even without Ed this was a major flap)

January 8, 1990
GULF BREEZE MULTIPLE WITNESS SIGHTING
with multiple photographers including Ed Walters

September 16, 1992
GULF BREEZE SIGHTING of a Ring of Lights by ME
and about 30 others/video/audio/triangulation

March 8, 1995
GRENOBLE, FRANCE (high speed object
tracked by Swiss military radar traveling at
nearly MACH 3 in French Air Space; object
descended at high speed and disappeared;
first reported in new book by Illobrand von
Lludwiger))

July 2, 1998
TICONDEROGA, NY (video; see MUFON Journal
Jan 1999)


OOOOOOPS!!

More than ten.






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   Apr > Apr 3

                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #297

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 07:14:40 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 09:42:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #297


Apology to MW #297 (For April 3, 1999)

A moment to celebrate Jesse Marcel. A HERO by measure (!)
despite what Todd tells! A patriot born at the start of a
century, he burns with significance -- proudly exemplary. In at
the _start_ of the *strangest* coincidence (the lost message
traffic, the tales -- bizarre incidence), he _followed_ the
orders that made him a fool, and he _lived_ their betrayal which
made him a tool.  Nailed to crosses of National Security,
plagued by an excess of brass insecurity, he came to his end
with these words on his lips -- "I'm knowing the difference
twixt balloons and spaceships."

Jesse was _special_, and held a position of critical importance
he _earned_ with precision. Efficient, and smart (of
_unquestionable_ honor (!)), it was a _brave_ man Todd's trashed
and dishonored! Concerning those officers (who made the
decisions) that put Jesse *in* to his _well watched_ positions
-- these were no bureaucrats (obsessed with an image); these
were hard warriors who'd just won their scrimmage with Nippon
and Hitler -- stood _tall_ at the finish! And they had _no_
problems with Jesse -- unblemished.

Survived by a son that he raised up just _fine_ (the son is a
doctor, but pay it no mind), suffice it to say that the son
bears with tact . . . what one Jesse Marcel said he _did_ -- was
a FACT! The spaceship was real, and was held in his hands! No
trick of mere paper, and foiled rubber bands! No cellophane
tape, or carnival symbol explained his excitement (I'm _sure_ he
still trembles). No trick of the light, or slight of dad's hand
would make him face ridicule the like of that planned by the
Todd, his associates, and the short sighted planners who
_shrink_ from anomaly -- its whistles and banners!

_Something_ occurred on that dark, stormy night! The flashes of
lightening lit up a new sight of a craft from the stars that had
made its crash landing, and left in a scar (that was huge and
demanding) a trail of pieces that point to _tomorrow_. Tomorrow
is _here_, Todd! Give it up, can you follow? Jesse was honored
by _all_ his superiors; NOTHING about him was noted inferior! He
was involved with those bombs using *fission*? The _first_ of
their _kind_ was the point of his *mission*? You think they
weren't sure of his words and his deeds? You think him not
CHECKED to a parse and a squeeze ?  He was the actual _head_ of
intelligence! He was the boss! Where _comes_ your
intransigence?!

Sooner or later the truth will come out, that Jesse had honor,
and Todd was a trout. Hooking his fish on a spurious line, Todd
uses straw men (of a scurrilous kind) to harm and discredit a
man who had _honor_ -- exceeding detractors too shallow to
matter! What of Todd then? Will he print a retraction? Or, will
he just fade to predicted inaction? Will he make good with dear
Jesse's survivors, or will he just pick a new target to fire? I
would admit to a wrong or an error because I'm concerned and I
want to play fairer!  I would believe the Todd's white bread
convenience if he was forthcoming or tolerant -- lenient. That
Jesse's a liar for *dust* in old records _belies_ good
researching; it's _narrow_ perspective. He was SELECTED for
SERIOUS toil; his records were accessed, and _strained_ -- hell,
par boiled! He was the subject of massive research! They chopped
and they sliced his whole _life_ apart, Burt! If he was, then,
all that the Todd has proclaimed (?) then who were the FOOLS
that, _then_, CLEARED his good name?

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

I want it all. Mr. Todd makes convenient assumptions. If his
assumptions are flawed his arguments are flawed. The same goes,
of course, for _me_ his *honored* opposition.

Mr. Todd may _assume_ the veracity of records that have a strong
potential for being flawed on many levels. Todd's honored
opposition may _assume_ the veracity of records that have a
strong potential for being flawed on many levels . . . I _see_
how this works. The vagaries don't escape me.

But blithely, and with a degree of uncalled for rancor, Todd
makes additional assumptions I would be cautious of, and am (in
fact <g>) scandalized by! Todd _assumes_ a near flawless
integrity of official government records from a government
clearly riddled with lack of critical oversight, and wasting
millions of dollars every day to kickback, scandal, or
inefficiency. He _assumes_ a lack of integrity, an abundance of
gullibility, and the questionable mental health of anyone who
believes UFO's might be piloted by an *outside* intelligence. He
_assumes_ interpretations of facts in a cold harsh light of
black or white that castes more shadows than he is willing to
admit, for it allows not the tinniest shade of ubiquitous gray.
One _has_ to allow gray. Everything is gray. Pure black and
white is a myth, a fantasy -- a shadow on the walls of Plato's
cave. A sensible person acknowledges and appreciates gray, has a
gray _basket_ that  is expansive, open minded, organized,
objective, constructive, comprehensive, flexible, acceptable,
specific, and thoughtful. Mr. Todd, is none of these things.

This is the way our Mr. Todd works; this is the *wonder* that is
his investigative acumen:

Let's say I told you that I had more than 40 air-medals, earned
as a helicopter pilot in Viet Nam in 1970.

Air medals were awarded -- (rules _changed_ slightly between
units for _all_ the procedures _clearly_ outlined in some
regulation somewhere that our _intrepid_ Mr. Todd finds a copy
of ),  for every 5 hours of combat flying, or every 25 hours of
flying in direct combat support (my recollection). My official
records of the time indicate only _one_ air medal was ever
awarded. Forgetting that my hours flown in a combat zone are
documented to be 1086 (so by definition the hours flown in a
combat unit _are_ combat or direct combat support), flying
_only_ in direct combat support would net 43 air medals.
*Official Records*; however, indicate only _one_.

Ah-ha, Mr. Todd triumphantly concludes! Alfred Lehmberg is a
_craven_ liar, not to be trusted, and beneath the concern,
consideration, and contempt of all that behold him, or consider
his speculations! Todd's unjustified and narrowly conceived
character assassination begins in earnest, and is unrelenting.
Forget that I _earned_ over 40 air-medals -- Todd's myopic and
self serving narrowness has scourged another otherwise spotless
reputation. Forget, too, that Major Jesse Marcel was a man
_handpicked_ from hundreds of qualified individuals for his
courage, intelligence, and unblemished record to do a job of
_critical_ importance in the interests of the HIGHEST levels of
a (perhaps even <g>) justifiable National Security! Forget!

Robert Todd has.

This is _exactly_ what Todd does to Jesse Marcel! He ignores,
completely, the fact that Marcel's integrity, character, and
reliability must have been appreciated quite highly at the TIME
as _the_ top kick intelligence officer for the worlds _only_
aviation group capable of delivering the atomic bomb! Don't you
think it likely that Mr. Todd is missing the point here a little
bit? Or, perhaps, getting it _completely_, he runs furtively in
the other direction trying, desperately, to avoid the baying of
his anomalous hounds? I think it's the latter. On reflection, I
think
you would -- too.

Restore John Ford!


--
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more.
Consider Matter, Mind & Movement.
See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration.
Take a ride in the Teleporter.

Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
<Updated 2 April>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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   Apr > Apr 4

                               UFO*BC Updates

From: David Pengilly - UFO*BC <david_pengilly@dccnet.com>
Date: 3 Apr 1999 14:32:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 00:40:32 -0500
Subject: UFO*BC Updates


We have recently updated our website - http://ufobc.org

The following items are linked from our Homepage, under
"What's New"

1) "UFO Over Kimberley School"
 - Was a strange diamond-shaped object responsible for the
collapse of the McKim Theatre roof?

2) "Recently Reported Sightings"
 - all the sightings reported in the last few months

3) "UFO Stories From the Yukon"
 - new book by Lorraine Bretlyn. In the last two years she
has collected over 100 stories from Yukon residents.

4) "Do they know when we are thinking about them?"
 - two UFO accounts from Whitehorse - by Lorraine Bretlyn

5) "Bigfoot Tales From Kittimatt Village"
 - report by Bill Oliver
 - native tales of the Sasquatch

6) "The Dark Side of UFOs"
 - report by Graham Conway
 - sometimes the experience is too much too handle

7) "Giant UFO Over Vancouver"
 - Pulled from the Archives - 1965
 - panic at baseball match

8) "A Chilean Andes Fender Bender"
 - Updated with photos of the unknown metal chunks

***********************************************************


Dave Pengilly
dave@ufobc.org





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   Apr > Apr 4

                         The Nine Planets - Website

From: Steven L. Wilson, Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:30:31 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 00:06:51 -0500
Subject: The Nine Planets - Website

Here is a great site to spend a few hours researching the solar
system. It is very well written, and includes pictures.

The Nine Planets

http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplanets/nineplanets.html

Your friend,
Steven L. Wilson, Sr







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                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:03:08 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 00:33:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:54:07 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:23:24 -0500

>>All, and I mean ALL, the 'skeptical' opinions I have ever read
>>or heard regarding the reality of UFOs presented one or all of
>>the following flaws:

>>1. Ignorance of the data at hand;

>>2. Deliberate ignorance of the data at hand.

>>Can an opinion based on ignorance (deliberate or not) be
>>considered objective?

>>No.

>True enough, but you forgot...

>3. Deliberate distortion or omission of key data (Klass'
>analysis of the Coyne sighting and many, many other examples too
>numerous to cite from his work, Menzel's work, Kottmeyer's work,
>etc.).

>4. Advancement of a hypothesis without any verifiable evidence
>to support it (Exeter was a hoax, Socorro was a hot air balloon,
>Gill saw a mirage...)


Dear Mark & List,

My distinguished coleague Mark Cashman, whom I consider to be
the leading theorist in ufology today, has made some good points
to augment the original, which I'd like to comment on or clarify
a bit.


Firstly, I don't agree with the original author's claim that
every skeptical opinion is based on ignorance of the data
whether deliberate or unintentional.  This betrays a
misunderstanding of the skeptics.  And an opinion can still be
objective even if based on ignorance, because objectivity is not
the same thing as "completeness" or "thoroughness," it simply
means fair, unbiased and even-handed.  A skeptic can be
objective even if uninformed.  (Of course, if they _refuse_ to
become informed that is another matter, indicative of bias and
unfairness.  But no single human being can be expected to know
everything about ufology.)

Some skeptics, such as Menzel and Sheaffer, have provably
distorted or ignored evidence, though I almost never see
specific examples cited on this List (till Mark's posting and
Jerry Clark's).  Menzel distorted the facts of his own sighting
of May 1949 (reducing their angular size, etc.), miscalculated
the setting time of Jupiter in the Gorman case, and invented
nonexistent "atmospheric lenses" to explain UFO cases, which
McDonald pointed out would require absurd temperature inversions
of 100,000's of degrees per unit distance (1000 feet, mile, km,
doesn't much matter when it's 4 to 5 orders of magnitude too
large).

Sheaffer invented a nonexistent "tangle of threads" on a wire
above the Trent/McMinnville UFO in his Plate 19 of his UFO
Verdict book where no such thing is to be found.  When I
personally challenged him on this at a meeting of Bay Area
Skeptics in May 1985 he had no answer at all, instead he tried
to shut off the dialogue by changing the subject and eventually
turned the lights off in the meeting room when his own BAS
skeptics wanted to hear him answer these rebuttal points I made.

Now, 14 years later, Sheaffer points to an amorphous fuzz spot
that is _not_ above the UFO but off to the left and is _above_
the wire and not actually touching it, and it appears in the
wrong Trent photo than that cited in his book.  It is apparently
a film defect not a real object since it does _not_ appear in the
_other_ Trent Photo.

Despite the pro-UFO arguments I've just made, I know I'm going
to get misquoted and misrepresented by having the preceding
paragraph omitted in the responses and only the following
remarks quoted because they are "anti-UFO," so be forewarned
that I won't tolerate it.

Some skeptics such as Klass and Oberg -- whom I have vigorously
fought in the past -- have investigated cases in-depth and come
up with negative results quite genuinely (Klass on RB-47 though
I've proven him totally wrong, Klass on the Iowa Fireball and
Crowder cases;  Oberg on STS-48 and Gemini 4, though we might
disagree on points).  UFOlogists may disagree or fault the
fact-finding but the disagreement is legitimate, e.g., Klass and
Sheaffer are both simply mistaken about the weather report in
the McMinnville case because they misinterpreted the standard
reporting symbols ("O" does _not_ mean 0% cloud cover but 0 to
10%).  Klass and Oberg may be faulted in other cases but in some
they have "done their homework."

The extremism which runs rampant in ufology today is incapable
of acknowledging the merits of its opponents and resorts instead
to destroying them by character assassination -- always excused
of course by the ad hominem arguments and character
assassination from the skeptics camp ("two wrongs making a
right") so there is an endless cycle of rhetorical violence
which frequently escalates and never ends.

This verbal abuse does serve to offend and scare off legitimate
scientists who might otherwise be interested in investigating
the subject of UFOs (I don't mean those establishment scientists
who have chips on their shoulders and taunt ufologists to come
knock them off, but those with genuine interest).  The UFO
UpDates List is notorious for uncontrolled verbal attacks and
abuse and is one reason I try to stay off of it for the most
part.  Saying anything favorable about Klass -- even if
ensconced in loads of criticism -- is the kiss of death on this
list and others.


Secondly, I've given some examples of deliberate
distortion/omission already but can add many more examples,
e.g., Klass ignored data in his own files conclusively proving
that the "American" Airlines plane in the RB-47 case was nowhere
near Ft. Worth-Dallas at the time of the UFO incident (it turns
out it was actually nonexistent, it was a National Airlines
plane and that plane could not possibly have been involved when
it was 600+ miles away).

To the example of Father Gill seeing a "mirage" I can also add
that Menzel falsely claimed that Gill wasn't wearing his
glasses, therefore couldn't have seen anything at all, when in
fact Gill did wear his glasses!


Brad Sparks






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   Apr > Apr 4

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:22:33 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 00:32:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:03:37 -0500
>Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:20:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:57:27 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>>>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:13:18 -0500
>>>Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:09:15 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions

>>>Regarding:

>>>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:26:34 -0500
>>>>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>>>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Descriptions
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Obviously, _overall_ their shape was "round" and "saucer" shaped.
>>The problem comes with the _exception_ to the overall rule, namely
>>the cutoff in the back, leading to a more "bat-shaped"
>>appearance as Arnold said early on. The question is in the mode
>>of description. Does one stick to the overall appearance
>>("saucer" shaped) then note the exceptions, or strive to come up
>>with a supposedly more exact descriptive label ("bat") that may
>>not in fact be exactly correct either? I can understand Arnold
>>vacillating between such options as he was hounded by the press.

>>That said, I am nevertheless bothered by the fact that no one
>>else in the 1947 flap ever saw objects shaped like Arnold's,
>>with only one possible exception (a suspected hoax apparently).

>How about Fred Johnson,... who apparently saw the tail ends more
>clearly with something moving back and forth. Also, Trent saucer
>shows a "tendency" toward a convex shape over one portion of the
>edge (at about the 10 o clock position on the ellipse)


Dear Bruce & List,

I considered the Johnson sighting to be the _same_ event as
Arnold's seen from a different location at the same time.  It
had better look similar!  The Trent case which we have worked on
for about 25 years is in 1950 and not in the 1947 flap.  What I
meant was that Project 1947 has collected something like 2,000
UFO cases for 1947 yet only a few were described as similar to
Arnold's.  I felt better once Dave Rudiak cited a few instances
of half-moon shapes reported, but it's only a few and one case
turns out to emanate from a Shaver Mystery-type fan or writer.

If anything, the general _lack_ of UFOs in 1947 shaped similar
to Arnold's argues _against_ media-generated or media-influenced
UFO waves.  If publicity simply incites the public to hysteria
so that people imagine they see what "everyone else" sees
shouldn't _many_ of the 1947 cases be similar in shape to
Arnold's?  Is the media-hysteria theory that people simply read
the headlines screaming "flying saucer" then went out and
thought they saw the same thing without reading the articles?

How would people know that a "flying saucer" was supposed to be
a real object in the sky and not a new dance, party game,
dinnerware, or toy unless they actually read the article and
thus read the actual description of the shape?  People in 1947
didn't know anything about UFOs or flying saucers, this was all
brand new, it was not 1999.

Brad Sparks






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   Apr > Apr 4

                                     Re:

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:45:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 00:46:47 -0500
Subject: Re:


>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:24:56 -0500
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>Regarding recent comments on this topic, with Bruce's reference
>to the enigmatic Trent photographs appreciated and duly noted,
>the following observations and questions are essentially cross-
>posted from related discussions elsewhere.


>Taking care of one issue first of all.

>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 00:49:26 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description>

>>As to motion, what did make it into the 1947 press was Arnold's
>>repeated descriptions of how they weaved and dipped together in
>>single file, "like the tail of a kite." He also described them
>>flipping and flashing in the sun like fish. But nothing about
>>skimming or skipping motion. Maybe he said it, but you don't
>>see it.

>For easy reference, as confirmed on the 'Project 1947' web site:

>"Norman, Oklahoma Transcript - June 26, 1947

<snip>

>Further, Arnold initially thought the earlier sighting was of
>geese, then dismissed this possibility because the objects were
>apparently travelling too fast. A similar situation arose in the
>second sighting, Arnold again deducing the 20-25 objects could
>not be birds, specifically ducks, as they wouldn't have flown so
>fast as he perceived.

>If the latter was merely a flight of birds, probably ducks as
>Oregon is prime duck country, then Arnold believed they displayed
>the same distinctive flight characteristics as the former and
>similarly flew too fast for him to catch up with them.

>In which case, who could have any confidence that his landmark
>sighting wasn't also simply of birds. Would it not in fact have
>to be concluded they were, as he attributed the same
>distinguishing features to both.>

>Both reported sightings therefore seem to stand or fall together.>

<snip>

>In short, there are only two logical conclusions.>

>Firstly, that Arnold's sighting of 20-25 small, brass/amber
>coloured objects were almost certainly of birds and added to the
>documented errors he made in calculating the altitude of the
>original 9 objects, it's testimony that his celebrated account of
>those 9 objects, with the same flight characteristics, is not
>trustworthy as evidence of 'alien spacecraft'.>

>Alternatively, he witnessed 9 'alien spaceships' and only a few
>weeks later saw another 20-25 small alien craft, either piloted
>by tiny extraterrestrials or remote controlled and the original
>objects were either 'bat-like', 'crescent-shaped' or, as per the
>Wright Field sketch,'heel-shaped', yet somehow 'saucers'.>

>Even if the latter is accepted, as a foundation for the perfect
>disc-shaped, then 'upturned saucer-shaped' and 'double saucer-
>shaped' (a la 'Billy Meier') 'UFOs' which followed, it seems to
>have a somewhat less than comfortable foundation.>>


>Unless answers to the above questions may indicate otherwise,
>evidently, there appears to be no foundation at all.


All this brilliant reasoning leaves me cold.

Arnold reported that during his first sighting he turned his
plane to look directly at the objects through his open window to
rule out any possibilities of reflection. That means he was
flying parallel to these "birds." It would have taken him only a
few seconds to realize that his plane was gaining on the objects
had they been birds (at several thousand feet, perhaps, rather
than 20 miles or so; have to keep the angular size constant.)






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                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:45:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 01:43:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description


>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:24:56 -0500
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>Regarding recent comments on this topic, with Bruce's reference
>to the enigmatic Trent photographs appreciated and duly noted,
>the following observations and questions are essentially cross-
>posted from related discussions elsewhere.


>Taking care of one issue first of all.

>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 00:49:26 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description>

>>As to motion, what did make it into the 1947 press was Arnold's
>>repeated descriptions of how they weaved and dipped together in
>>single file, "like the tail of a kite." He also described them
>>flipping and flashing in the sun like fish. But nothing about
>>skimming or skipping motion. Maybe he said it, but you don't
>>see it.

>For easy reference, as confirmed on the 'Project 1947' web site:

>"Norman, Oklahoma Transcript - June 26, 1947

<snip>

>Further, Arnold initially thought the earlier sighting was of
>geese, then dismissed this possibility because the objects were
>apparently travelling too fast. A similar situation arose in the
>second sighting, Arnold again deducing the 20-25 objects could
>not be birds, specifically ducks, as they wouldn't have flown so
>fast as he perceived.

>If the latter was merely a flight of birds, probably ducks as
>Oregon is prime duck country, then Arnold believed they displayed
>the same distinctive flight characteristics as the former and
>similarly flew too fast for him to catch up with them.

>In which case, who could have any confidence that his landmark
>sighting wasn't also simply of birds. Would it not in fact have
>to be concluded they were, as he attributed the same
>distinguishing features to both.>

>Both reported sightings therefore seem to stand or fall together.>

<snip>

>In short, there are only two logical conclusions.>

>Firstly, that Arnold's sighting of 20-25 small, brass/amber
>coloured objects were almost certainly of birds and added to the
>documented errors he made in calculating the altitude of the
>original 9 objects, it's testimony that his celebrated account of
>those 9 objects, with the same flight characteristics, is not
>trustworthy as evidence of 'alien spacecraft'.>

>Alternatively, he witnessed 9 'alien spaceships' and only a few
>weeks later saw another 20-25 small alien craft, either piloted
>by tiny extraterrestrials or remote controlled and the original
>objects were either 'bat-like', 'crescent-shaped' or, as per the
>Wright Field sketch,'heel-shaped', yet somehow 'saucers'.>

>Even if the latter is accepted, as a foundation for the perfect
>disc-shaped, then 'upturned saucer-shaped' and 'double saucer-
>shaped' (a la 'Billy Meier') 'UFOs' which followed, it seems to
>have a somewhat less than comfortable foundation.>>


>Unless answers to the above questions may indicate otherwise,
>evidently, there appears to be no foundation at all.


All this brilliant reasoning leaves me cold.

Arnold reported that during his first sighting he turned his
plane to look directly at the objects through his open window to
rule out any possibilities of reflection. That means he was
flying parallel to these "birds." It would have taken him only a
few seconds to realize that his plane was gaining on the objects
had they been birds (at several thousand feet, perhaps, rather





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   Apr > Apr 4

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:22:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 01:25:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


With the compliments, and feline smirk, of House Mendoza:

>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 99 21:39:15 PST

This, and John Rimmer's post which it refers, are now
archived in the 10 000 gigabyte Mendoza Cray Archives in a
folder entitled 'Missing The Point' inside another folder
entitles 'The Strange World of Jerome Clark, Wandering Boy
Bishop'. Completion of the manuscript so far accumulated may
be a matter for my heirs, if they can be found in the covens
and ginnels and palaces of Alexandria, Marseilles, Bombay
and elsewhere, or it may keep me off the streets in my
declining years, or serve to pass the time while I languish
in the Tower of London for sedition. It is certainly getting
very large.

My point: Introduction. Jerome ploughs on for several
typically verbose [sic] paragraphs about the shortcomings he
perceives in the psychosocial hypothesis (PSH). Jerome
conveniently forgets how many times he has been reminded
that this is not one, but several, loosely interrelated
hypotheses, with a number of writers pushing their own
corners of an envelope on whose presice [sic] contents they
are not necessarily wholly agreed upon. No wonder he finds
it curious that "Magonia" printed a largely friendly review
of his Encyclopedia. He cannot tolerate ambiguity,
apparently!

My point: Statement. Nowhere in John Rimmer's post do we
find an attempt to promote the PSH. Nowhere, even, do we
find it mentioned. What we find when we look, and read, and
mark, and learn, is an asseveration of a truth universally
acknowledged, that those fallen into a sympthay with the
extra-terrestrial hypothesis (ETH) have been reluctant to
produce - even recusant on the matter, as in the Boy
Bishop's case - specific UFO cases that are especially
suggestive of an ET "solution". Last time around Mark
Cashman had the balls to offer a list. This time Bruce
Maccabee unzips his list and stands up [sic] to be counted,
and finds he has more than ten. Good. Now let ten or more
brave souls do likewise, and perhaps, variegated as these
individual lists may be, we may find ten that all include.
Then we can set-to on them, at least.

My point: Variation. All this waffle, which verges on the ad
hominem, to which we know the Boy Bishop is ever too pure to
descend, about librarians and English majors (I am pleased
to be neither, so remain slightly baffled, if very bored
indeed, with the tireless repetition of this old saw) does
nothing to dispose of John's point that skeptics he has
known (in the UK at least) have come to their current
condition, perhaps best characterized by Raymond Cahndler's
[sic] phrase "the dewy-eyed innocence of used-car salesmen",
through hard work and wide experience. Helpful advice from
the Boy Bishop for such good folk to "really get out more"
is at best supercilious, at middle oblique, at worst plain
stupid.

My point: Second statement. We may choose to divine from the
fine spray of this Diocesean Discourse that St Jerome has a
certain fondness for the following UFO cases:

1. RB-47, as analysed by Brad Sparks
2. McMinnville, as analysed by Brad Sparks & Bruce M'bee
3. The Coyne helicopter case, as analysed by J. Zeider
4. Unspecified EM cases (vehicle stops)

After that, generalities, and some of the usual heroes
(saints) ofered [sic] devotions (a ritual recognizable by
the prodigious amount of arm-waving indulged by the
officiant). But here we have a start. We could probably add
the Trans-en-Provence case, which we recall the Boy Wonder
[sic] has defended in the past here & elsewhere. Well,
that's half way. Perhaps another five could be squeezed or
seduced out of the beardless lad, and we might be somewhere
near some insight into the nature of the holy relics hidden
in the mildewed crypts of Canby Cathedral!

My point: Coda. It's observable - and, "of course, of some
mild psychosocial interest in itself" - that the Blessed
Jerome offers us not _cases_ that may perhaps support the
ETH or even demolish the PSH, but interpretations of those
cases as admirable. Thus yet another layer of thought is
interposed between the original experience and its
assessment. While the Boy Bishop becomes in my darker
moments a prime candidate for the next Archbishop of
Canterbury, so broad is his mind and his fudgery and his
reluctance to express his own true ufological wisdom, it
does also occur to me that PSHers the world over are
justified in wondering when this scholar of canonical texts
last considered the nature of actual experience, or even got
outside his front door, rather than promoting what somebody
said about what somebody said about what somebody said about
what someone else may or may not have seen when the small
rain down did rain on a rainy night in Georgia, or Wigan
pier, or Jericho. This layering and re-interpretation alone
justifies a psychosocial approach to what is loosely called
"the UFO phenomenon". Meanwhile, the needling of actual
individual cases in the pages of "Magonia" sails right past
the point on top of the Boy Bishop's head, which so nicely
matches the one on his slightly skew-wiff mitre.

best wishes
Popejoan D. Macarius
Indulgences To Go





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   Apr > Apr 4

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 23:58:22 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 03:45:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 99 21:39:15 PST
>Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 01:08:38 -0500
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:36:57 +0100
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>>>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:23:24 -0500

>>>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:13:35 -0800 (PST)
>>>>From: Scott LeGrand <varelse@best.com>
>>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>Patient and gentle listfolk:

>>Of course we're not talking about specific cases, because as has
>>been proved over and over again here on UpDates, the ETHers are
>>unable to come up with any cases that they are prepared to list
>>as evidence for extraterrestrial intervention. Instead we get
>>airy-fairy armwaving about the "weight of evidence".

<snip>

>And yet, curiously, John was kind enough to give a good review
>to my UFO Encyclopedia, which is full of solid cases recounted
>in detail, along with extensive bibliographic citations for
>further reading. Likewise the basic works in the serious UFO
>literature, with which John is either unfamiliar or, more
>likely, being wholly disingenuous about, relate those great
>cases that John so wishes out of existence. And why, given his
>shaky intellectual position, shouldn't he?  I mean, whom would
>any sensible person trust on, say, the RB-47 case? Brad Sparks
>or John Rimmer?  Or the McMinnville case?  Sparks and Bruce
>Maccabee, or Peter Rogerson?  The Coyne case?  Jennie Zeidman or
>the PSH's favorite debunker, Phil (Ufology Is Tantamount to
>Communism) Klass? The patterns in the data?  Mark Cashman or
>Martin Kottmeyer?  EM cases? Mark Rodeghier or any Magonian you
>can name?  Science and the UFO evidence?  James McDonald and
>Michael Sword or the most touchingly devout PSHer you can think
>of?

<snip>

>Cheers,

>Jerry Clark


Dear Jerry & List,

Opponents of ETH are right in the sense that currently no
consensus list of best UFO cases has been developed.  But they
are wrong in the sense of insinuating no such lists have ever
been compiled in the past and that skeptics have _never_ had a
fair opportunity to tackle ufology's best evidence. In fact, the
infamous Condon Committee's lengthy catalog of cases it could
not explain as of 1968 still remains virtually untouched by the
skeptics after 30 years (see "Sightings, unexplained" in the
Index, CR, p. 961b).

Lists of UFO best evidence cases based on surveys of UFO
organizations and researchers were published long ago by Vallee
in 1966 and Ron Story & Richard Greenwell in 1981.

By presenting these lists I am _not_ endorsing the decisions
made by the many UFO researchers polled, and in fact I do not
accept the ETH, but endorse the OEH (Objective Existence
Hypothesis) which is that an unexplained physical phenomenon
does exist.  I am not ready to present a full Best Case list for
OEH, though I would certainly put on such a list the RB-47 case
(see the revised UFO Encyclopedia), the Trent/McMinnville stereo
photos, the Rogue River, Oregon, sighting, the June 6, 1949,
Killeen Base observation network sighting (world's first UFO
triangulation), Gemini 11 astronaut sighting and photos,
Skylab-3 astronaut sighting and photos, and the Cash-Landrum
case.  For pure visual sightings without photographs or
instrumentation such as radar or magnetometers, I use an initial
screening criterion that requires sighting report data in a case
from both of at least two witnesses observing a UFO for at least
1 (one) full minute in which the object is at least a Full Moon
angular diameter (with no gaps or "connecting the dots" to try
to make it a Full Moon or 0.5 deg in length, it has to be a
"diameter" all way around at minimum).

Here are the lists the skeptics all but ignore, and I would
estimate that at least _one-third_ of the cases remain
unexplained or unmentioned by skeptics (who usually never
mention the lists themselves).  Klass mentioned the Vallee list
in his Socorro case chapter in UFOs Explained but ignored the
rest of the list even when discussing some of the remaining
cases.  Several were tackled by the Condon Committee without
success:

Jacques & Janine Vallee, Challenge to Science (1966)
Survey of 29 U.S. UFO organizations (about 13 responding) of
Most Significant or Convincing UFO Sightings

1.  Socorro, NM, Apr 24, 1964  (Zamora case)
2.  Washington, DC, July 19-20, 26-27, 1952
    (Wash National Airport)
3.  Trindade Island, Brazil, Jan 16, 1958  (IGY photos)
4.  Mt. Rainier, Wash, June 24, 1947  (Kenneth Arnold case)
5.  Ft. Knox, Kentucky, Jan 7, 1948  (Mantell case)
6.  Southwest U.S. (Texas), Nov 1957  (Levelland etc.)
7.  Kinross AFB, Mich, Nov 23, 1953  (jet disappearance)
8.  Rapid City, SD, Aug 5-6, 1953  (radar-visual jet case)
9.  Lubbock, Texas, Aug 25, 1951  (Lubbock Lights photo)
10. Newport News, VA, July 14, 1952  (Nash-Fortenberry case)
11. Boianai, New Guinea, June 26-7, 1959  (Father Gill case)
12. Fort Itaipu, Brazil, Nov 3, 1957
13. Salem, Mass, July 16, 1952  (Alpert photo)
14. Red Bluff, Calif, Aug 13, 1960
15. Washington, DC, May 29, 1950  (Capt Sperry case)
16. Goose Bay, Labrador, June 30,1954  (BOAC radar-visual)
17. Rome, Italy, (Oct 28, 1954 ??)
    (radar-visual?? Clare Booth Luce??)
18. New Jersey, (Apr 24, 1964 ??)  (Wilcox contactee ??)
19. Montgomery, Alab, July 24-5, 1948  (Chiles-Whitted case)
20. Ubatuba, Brazil, Sept 1957  (magnesium physical evidence)
21. McMinnville, Ore, May 11, 1950  (Trent case photos)

Nos. 2, 8, 16, 20 and 21 were investigated by the Condon
Committee and 2 of the 5 remained _unexplained_ (nos. 16 and
21), Goose Bay and McMinnville.


Ronald Story with J. Richard Greenwell, UFOs and the Limits of
Science (1981) Oct 1979 Survey of 90 Leading UFO Researchers (33
responding) Strongest UFO Evidence on Record

1.  McMinnville, Ore, May 11, 1950  (Trent case photos)
2.  Great Falls, Mont, Aug 15, 1950  (Mariana film)
3.  Newport News, VA, July 14, 1952  (Nash-Fortenberry case)
4.  Lakenheath AFB, Eng, Aug 13-14, 1956
    (multiple radar-visual)
5.  Levelland, Texas, Nov 2-3, 1957
6.  Trindade Island, Brazil, Jan 16, 1958  (IGY photos)
7.  Boianai, New Guinea, June 26-7, 1959  (Father Gill case)
8.  Whitefield, NH, Sept 20, 1961  (Betty & Barney Hill case)
9.  Exeter, NH, Sept 3, 1965
10. Ravenna, Ohio, Apr 17, 1966  (Spaur chase case)
11. Mansfield, Ohio, Oct 18, 1973  (Coyne helicopter case)
12. Tehran, Iran, Sept 19-20, 1976  (Iranian jet case)
13. New Zealand, Dec 31, 1978
    (New Zealand film multiple radar-visual)

All three of the cases on this list that had been investigated
by the Condon Committee, Nos. 1, 2 and 4 (McMinnville, Great
Falls, and Lakenheath) remained _unexplained_ after
investigation by the Condon Committee.

The only case that appears on all three lists, Vallee 1966,
Condon Committee 1969, and Story-Greenwell 1981, is the
McMinnville photo case, about which I plan to post an update
soon.

Brad Sparks





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   Apr > Apr 4

                      Re: Arnold's La Grande Adventure

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:41:22 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 10:45:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Arnold's La Grande Adventure


Hello all,


First I want to apolo... no I won't apologize for someone else.
Oregonians have had a live and let live attitude for years.Just
don't move here to stay.<g> Our British friends, sceptical
though they may be, are also right to ask questions. Using the
Queen's English too...

Arnold's  description of a flock of  whatever caused me to think
of a possible explination of the phemon. over the Grande Ronde
Valley-the name of the valley in which La - Grande sits. As I
sit through a nasty hailstorm and just knowing my Tulips are
getting zorched, I have to tell all of you I learned to fly
there, born and raised there, hunted ducks, and deer
there-though I don't do that any more. La Grande is on a major
Flyway for migratory fowl Swans to Eagles Hawks to Buzzards,
they all traverse the area. Sandhill Cranes, Large and
Flamingo-like coud even be ruddy/coppery under certian
conditions, I also wonder if Arnold didn't take into account the
relative speed of the "flock".

I have seen flocks from the air (been in the middle of a _large_
flock of Geese) Quite a surprise, too also, they were gone in a
flash-because of realtive speed, the rate at which you are
converging then traveling away from each other. I am not
questioning Arnold's sightings at La Grande, possibly be that he
was a little "spooked" by the sighting over Mt. Rainier. We'll
never know. I am not a Sceptic, but things do have a reasonable
explination sometimes.

GT McCoy






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   Apr > Apr 4

                     Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy

From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:53:37 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 16:32:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy


>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:10:55 +0200
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it>
>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's
>Samples in Italy

>>From: Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc <mbalien@tin.it>
>>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Michael Wolf's Samples
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:47:52 +0100

>>Michael Wolf is right
>>by Adriano Forgione (Italy)

>>I must say that the two above laboratories are extremely
>>specialized: the first, being the Chemical Department of the
>>University of Pisa, whose director is Corrado Malanga,

>Well, not exactly so.

>Corrado Malanga is not, and has never been, "director" of the
>Chemical Department of the University of Pisa. He is (has
>always  been) just a "researcher" there. Anybody may check on
>the Pisa University website.

>Shouldn't we add that he's been a UFO buff of the alien kind
>since he was a teenager (nothing bad in that: I've been, too),
>as well as a member of the council of the UFO organization
>Centro Ufologico Nazionale (CUN) since 1979 through 1998, when
>he chose to leave because his own "new age" ideas have become
>much too far out even for that group?


Here is an interesting new angle of attack against the
information given by Adriano Forgione. To me it sounds very much
like a classical ad hominem attack. If you cannot attack a fact,
attack the man!

This subject of Michael Wolf's samples took a bad turn
from the start, I am afraid.

We already had the mistake of Forgione in writing percentages of
silicone (he does not know first grade maths, etc), then the
interrogation on the use of silicones by the aliens (they should
know better), and now we have a violent personal attack against
the Italian scientist Corrado Malanga. BTW, the other lab is
completely forgotten in the process.

At least, he is a university researcher, if not a director.
Good to know that. It will be interesting to have communication
of his scientific report. Why don't we just wait for it?

Now we learn that he is a "UFO buff of the alien kind". What
does that mean? He thinks there are aliens around? Does this
remark imply that it is sign of mental weakness, or what?

He has been member of CUN, and has quit: what relevance is there
with the subject? It is an interesting side information, though,
about ufology in Italy: some people quit CUN because they are
too "new age", whereas some people have quit CUN before because
they were "psycho-socio" opponents, which was the case of
Edorardo Russo, I believe. Correct me if I am mistaken. Overall,
it looks like a good point for CUN!

<snip>

>>Maurizio Baiata and myself wish that the analysis be conducted
>>most secretely and that even the laboratories would not know the
>>origin of the samples, neither what Wolf had told us.

>You'd have us believe that you gave your pal Corrado Malanga
>those allegedly alien fragments without even telling him what it
>was and where they came from?

I gathered that Forgione did not inform Malanga of the
percentage of silicone given by Wolf himself. Of course, Malanga
must have understood he was studying an alleged UFO fragment.
Does that invalidate his study?
<snip>

>>They are
>>opposed to Sims' results and match entirely with Wolf's
>>statements.

>Bingo! You mean that now Corrado may add another medal to his
>collection: "tougher than Derril Sims"? Did he still need that?

Forgione explained that test arranged by Derrel Sims probably did
not use sufficent equipment to find such a small percentage
of impurities. We are sinking in caricature here.

>Corrado Malanga is author of a book about an Italian abductee,
>where he (Malanga) has some very wild claims about what the
>motives and acts of alien invaders would be; but his most
>interesting discovery therein is the fact that you can easily
>tell whether an hypnotized abductee is telling truth or lie by
>giving him the command to raise either the right or the left
>arm.

Same remark as before!

What are the "wild claims"? That there are aliens around? That
they come from another dimension? Please develop the point. But
again it has nothing to do with the question at stake: a
chemical analysis of samples.

>He was also co-author (with his former friend, and present
>commercial partner, Roberto Pinotti of CUN fame) of another book
>where BVM (Beloved Virgin Mary) apparitions are credited to
>aliens, too.

Explanation:

To study the event of Fatima in relation to UFOs
is a sure sign of derangement of the mind!

Well, for those who don't know the case, please read a good book
about it. I recommend the complete, unabridged, testimony of the
professor of medecine Almeida Garrett, who professed to be an
atheist, and described a clear cut UFO. I have it in several
French books. In case it would not be available in English, I
would be glad to give it, both in French and in my own
translation. Such reading is a must in order to go to any
advanced study on UFOs. Many thanks for Malanga and Pinotti to
have done that.

>He's also been the oft-quoted source of claims that his chemical
>analysis of the ill-famed Santilli's "alien autopsy" film did
>confirm it was really dated 1947 (and Corrado was one of the
>very first to see it, going on public record to tell he thought
>those aliens were akin to birds, since an "egg" had been found
>inside SUE's belly).

The question of the "alien autopsy" film is still very much an
open one, especially after the information given recently on
this list by Bob Shell! (McAndrews saw the film in the USAF
archives). Now, could you explain what you are talking about
regarding "an egg in SUE's belly"??

<snip>

>No wonder Corrado might have confirmed any "ET" nature
>of any 0.0+% of anything: since 1984, he's been claiming the
>Ubatuba fragments were positively shown to contain
>non-terrestrial isotopes. Didn't you ever read that in the
>known literature about that case? You hadn't asked Malanga
>(whom also publicly said that J. Vallee had intentionally
>"lost" the only remaining Ubatuba sample).

Didn't you read the outstanding book of Paul Hill which shows
convincingly that, yes, the Ubatuba samples were extraordinary?
And that, possibly, some of them had been destroyed purposely.
As for Vallee, it's quite a possibility! His excuse : he was
caught in the middle of a May 68 demonstration and dropped it in
the gutter. A UFO debris lost by Vallee in a Paris gutter!!

<snip>

>Last August, Paola Harris and myself visited doctor Wolf in
>his flat in Connecticut and spent two days with him, having
>the chance to verify his degrees and credentials.

>I feel confident that you did "verify his degrees and
>credentials" with a greater accuracy than Malanga's ones.

That last blow is below the belt! Are you insinuating here that
Malanga has fake diplomas? Please explain.






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   Apr > Apr 4

                'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: John Velez

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 20:51:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 20:51:17 -0400
Subject: 'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: John Velez




From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

On 'Strange Days... Indeed' tonight, John Velez.

Join co-host Jonn Kares and I on 'Strange Days...Indeed' as we
discuss abductions and next Saturday's 1999 UFO Abduction
Conference in 'Noo Yawk' with John Velez.


The program starts at 11:00pm EST on

1010 CFRB AM - 50,000 watts 'Clear-Channel'

6070khz Shortwave

and you can listen via Netshow at:

www.cfrb.com


To call the program 'live', dial:

On-Air    416-872-1010
          1-800-561-CFRB [all over North America]
          *TALK [local mobiles]


ebk






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   Apr > Apr 5

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:11:43 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:01:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:22:07 -0500
>Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 01:25:09 -0500
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

<snip>

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 99 21:39:15 PST

><snip>

>My point: Statement. Nowhere in John Rimmer's post do we
>find an attempt to promote the PSH. Nowhere, even, do we
>find it mentioned. What we find when we look, and read, and
>mark, and learn, is an asseveration of a truth universally
>acknowledged, that those fallen into a sympthay with the
>extra-terrestrial hypothesis (ETH) have been reluctant to
>produce - even recusant on the matter, as in the Boy
>Bishop's case - specific UFO cases that are especially
>suggestive of an ET "solution".

COMMENTS: We can excuse Brookesmith's ill-informed opinion as
that of a latecomer to the field of UFO research.

Us veterans who have been involved in UFO research since the
60's and earlier are quite knowledgeable of the fact that
consensus lists of best UFO cases were published in the 60's and
80's based on surveys of UFO researchers worldwide.

It is incumbent on skeptics to tackle the unexplained best UFO
cases on these lists published by the pre-eminent Jacques Vallee
in 1966 and by Ron Story and Richard Greenwell in 1981.  Even
latecomers cannot pretend never to have heard of Vallee and his
book 'Challenge to Science' is still in print today.  Skeptics
have even less excuse to ignore Vallee's list when one of their
own, Philip Klass, cited Vallee's list in his classic book 'UFOs
Explained' published in 1974 (p. 109), revised in 1976 in
paperback (p. 129), which remains the standard textbook of
anti-UFO skepticism.  Klass writes:

  "When UFOlogist Jacques Vallee surveyed numerous UFO groups
   and asked them to list the most impressive UFO case on
   record, their overwhelming first choice was Socorro."

It is also obligatory that skeptics explain the _many_ UFO cases
that their own "anti-UFO" side, the Condon Committee, could not
explain.  These are conveniently listed in the Condon Report
Index in the back under "Sightings, unexplained" (p. 961b of the
popular Bantam edition).  And one cannot use the excuse any
longer of not being able to obtain a copy of the out-of-print
Condon Report.  See the online Condon Report at:

http://www.ncas.org/condon/

Here again are the Vallee (1966) and Story-Greenwell (1981)
survey results on the best UFO evidence, which I just posted
before receiving Brookesmith's misguided missive.  And again,
while I do not personally endorse these lists as I have my own
better list in the works using stated selection criteria
(instead of just subjective impression), these do belie
Brookesmith's purported "universal truth" that the field of UFO
research has never put forward, or is "reluctant" or "recusant"
in putting forward, a list of best UFO cases "suggestive" of
ETH.

At least Brookesmith is more reasonable than Klass in allowing
best-evidence cases that are merely "suggestive" of ETH.  Klass
demands cases that conclusively PROVE ETH and it is difficult to
know what he means by that other than an unreasonable demand for
a UFO to crash on the White House lawn or alien ambassadors to
present credentials at the UN.

And again I must point out that I personally reject ETH after
spending many years trying to prove it.  I accept the OEH
(Objective Existence Hypothesis) and my best evidence list will
be in support of the fact that an objective physical phenomenon
that is unexplained by modern science does exist.  And let me
reiterate that I estimate that about ONE-THIRD of these cases in
the Vallee and Story-Greenwell lists remain unexplained or even
unmentioned by UFO skeptics.

Even when skeptics discuss these cases they almost never mention
that the cases are on a best-evidence list so the average reader
does not realize that the skeptics may be leaving out a whole
host of other best-evidence UFO cases when they take highly
selective potshots at only a few.

The only exception I am aware of is Klass who mentions in UFOs
Explained that the Socorro/Lonnie Zamora case was ranked number
one in Vallee's list, but Klass has apparently never again
mentioned Vallee's list ever in the ensuing quarter century.


Jacques & Janine Vallee, Challenge to Science (1966)
Survey of 29 U.S. UFO organizations (about 13 responding) of
Most Significant or Convincing UFO Sightings

1.  Socorro, NM, Apr 24, 1964  (Zamora case)
2.  Washington, DC, July 19-20, 26-27, 1952
    (Wash National Airport)
3.  Trindade Island, Brazil, Jan 16, 1958  (IGY photos)
4.  Mt. Rainier, Wash, June 24, 1947  (Kenneth Arnold case)
5.  Ft. Knox, Kentucky, Jan 7, 1948  (Mantell case)
6.  Southwest U.S. (Texas), Nov 1957  (Levelland etc.)
7.  Kinross AFB, Mich, Nov 23, 1953  (jet disappearance)
8.  Rapid City, SD, Aug 5-6, 1953  (radar-visual jet case)
9.  Lubbock, Texas, Aug 25, 1951  (Lubbock Lights photo)
10. Newport News, VA, July 14, 1952  (Nash-Fortenberry case)
11. Boianai, New Guinea, June 26-7, 1959  (Father Gill case)
12. Fort Itaipu, Brazil, Nov 3, 1957
13. Salem, Mass, July 16, 1952  (Alpert photo)
14. Red Bluff, Calif, Aug 13, 1960
15. Washington, DC, May 29, 1950  (Capt Sperry case)
16. Goose Bay, Labrador, June 30,1954  (BOAC radar-visual)
17. Rome, Italy, (Oct 28, 1954 ??)   (radar-visual?? Clare Booth Luce??)
18. New Jersey, (Apr 24, 1964 ??)  (Wilcox contactee ??)
19. Montgomery, Alab, July 24-5, 1948  (Chiles-Whitted case)
20. Ubatuba, Brazil, Sept 1957  (magnesium physical evidence)
21. McMinnville, Ore, May 11, 1950  (Trent case photos)

Nos. 2, 8, 16, 20 and 21 were investigated by the Condon
Committee and 2 of the 5 remained _unexplained_ (nos. 16 and
21), Goose Bay and McMinnville.


Ronald Story with J. Richard Greenwell, UFOs and the Limits of
Science (1981) Oct 1979 Survey of 90 Leading UFO Researchers (33
responding) Strongest UFO Evidence on Record

1.  McMinnville, Ore, May 11, 1950  (Trent case photos)
2.  Great Falls, Mont, Aug 15, 1950  (Mariana film)
3.  Newport News, VA, July 14, 1952  (Nash-Fortenberry case)
4.  Lakenheath AFB, Eng, Aug 13-14, 1956 (multiple radar-visual)
5.  Levelland, Texas, Nov 2-3, 1957
6.  Trindade Island, Brazil, Jan 16, 1958  (IGY photos)
7.  Boianai, New Guinea, June 26-7, 1959  (Father Gill case)
8.  Whitefield, NH, Sept 20, 1961  (Betty & Barney Hill case)
9.  Exeter, NH, Sept 3, 1965
10. Ravenna, Ohio, Apr 17, 1966  (Spaur chase case)
11. Mansfield, Ohio, Oct 18, 1973  (Coyne helicopter case)
12. Tehran, Iran, Sept 19-20, 1976  (Iranian jet case)
13. New Zealand, Dec 31, 1978
    (New Zealand film multiple radar-visual)

All three of the cases on this list that had been investigated
by the Condon Committee, Nos. 1, 2 and 4 (McMinnville, Great
Falls, and Lakenheath) remained _unexplained_ after
investigation by the Condon Committee.

The only case that appears on all three lists, Vallee 1966,
Condon Committee 1969, and Story-Greenwell 1981, is the
McMinnville photo case, about which I plan to post an update
soon (see more comments below).

>Last time around Mark
>Cashman had the balls to offer a list. This time Bruce
>Maccabee unzips his list and stands up [sic] to be counted,
>and finds he has more than ten. Good. Now let ten or more
>brave souls do likewise, and perhaps, variegated as these
>individual lists may be, we may find ten that all include.
>Then we can set-to on them, at least.

<snip>

>My point: Second statement. We may choose to divine from the
>fine spray of this Diocesean Discourse that St Jerome has a
>certain fondness for the following UFO cases:

>1. RB-47, as analysed by Brad Sparks
>2. McMinnville, as analysed by Brad Sparks & Bruce M'bee
>3. The Coyne helicopter case, as analysed by J. Zeider
>4. Unspecified EM cases (vehicle stops)

<snip>

>My point: Coda. It's observable - and, "of course, of some
>mild psychosocial interest in itself" - that the Blessed
>Jerome offers us not _cases_ that may perhaps support the
>ETH or even demolish the PSH, but interpretations of those
>cases as admirable. Thus yet another layer of thought is
>interposed between the original experience and its
>assessment.

>does also occur to me that PSHers the world over are
>justified in wondering when this scholar of canonical texts
>last considered the nature of actual experience, or even got
>outside his front door, rather than promoting what somebody
>said about what somebody said about what somebody said about
>what someone else may or may not have seen when the small
>rain down did rain on a rainy night in Georgia, or Wigan
>pier, or Jericho. This layering and re-interpretation alone
>justifies a psychosocial approach to what is loosely called
>"the UFO phenomenon".

COMMENTS:  Excuse me but we are not talking about _literary_
_interpretations_ of UFO cases but _scientific_investigations_
that have overturned and devastatingly refuted the BEST
investigations ever put forward by UFO skeptics.

It is incumbent upon Mr. Brookesmith to become better informed
about these startling developments.

As one who is very sympathetic to skeptics, having worked with
both UFO skeptics and advocates for many years, and has strived
to resolve these classic UFO Best Evidence cases, I must
acknowledge cold, hard, scientific _facts_.

As much as I tried to get the RB-47 case so ably demolished by
Phil Klass to fit into his explanatory framework, it just
wouldn't fit.

In fact the more I struggled to explain it, the worse Klass'
explanations fared, and the stunning breakthrough that resolved
the erroneous flight path of the RB-47 finally exploded his
entire theory once and for all.

That is now published in The UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Edition,
based on my off-and-on investigation since 1971 (see AIAA's
Astronautics & Aeronautics, Dec 1971).

Klass has responded, complimenting me on the thoroughness of my
investigation though of course disagreeing, and I am rebutting
his weak and inadequate responses, which do not even deal with
most of the stunning refutations of his very convincing initial
investigation.

I am now in the intense process of finalizing my 27-year-long
investigation of the McMinnville/Trent UFO stereo photo case,
which had begun at the instigation of Phil Klass in 1972.  At a
number of points in recent days I thought the case was about to
collapse, at long last proven to be a hoax, and I would have
been more than happy to announce the confirmation and
vindication of Klass and Sheaffer in demolishing the case
(despite the anticipated angry and bitter denunciations of the
pro-UFO extremists).

However, that has not turned out to be the case.

At every turn the seemingly supportive hoax datum turned out to
be mere chimera and new more powerful pro-UFO evidence and
scientific analysis has emerged to bolster the case.

I still see the possibility of the McMinnville case collapsing
but I must concede it gets ever more remote each day (yes, I
work on this case each day).  I must also admit that the
McMinnville case is not converging on a real physical phenomenon
as smoothly and neatly as the RB-47 case did.

Unlike the McMinnville case, at no point in my fresh
re-investigation of the RB-47 case in 1997 did it ever appear
that it was about to collapse, or that some point establishing
Klass' theory ever seemed to be about to be proved.

The RB-47 case converged on UFO reality from the start of the
re-investigation and on every point, lending great confidence in
the final result.

Brad Sparks





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   Apr > Apr 5

                      Re: Arnold's La Grande Adventure

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:29:28 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:06:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Arnold's La Grande Adventure


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Arnold's La Grande Adventure
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:41:22 -0800

>First I want to apolo... no I won't apologize for someone else.
>Oregonians have had a live and let live attitude for years.Just
>don't move here to stay.<g> Our British friends, sceptical
>though they may be, are also right to ask questions. Using the
>Queen's English too...

>Arnold's description of a flock of whatever caused me to think
>of a possible explination of the phemon. over the Grande Ronde
>Valley-the name of the valley in which La - Grande sits. As I
>sit through a nasty hailstorm and just knowing my Tulips are
>getting zorched, I have to tell all of you I learned to fly
>there, born and raised there, hunted ducks, and deer
>there-though I don't do that any more. La Grande is on a major
>Flyway for migratory fowl Swans to Eagles Hawks to Buzzards,
>they all traverse the area. Sandhill Cranes, Large and
>Flamingo-like coud even be ruddy/coppery under certian
>conditions, I also wonder if Arnold didn't take into account the
>relative speed of the "flock".

>I have seen flocks from the air (been in the middle of a _large_
>flock of Geese) Quite a surprise, too also, they were gone in a
>flash-because of realtive speed, the rate at which you are
>converging then traveling away from each other. I am not
>questioning Arnold's sightings at La Grande, possibly be that he
>was a little "spooked" by the sighting over Mt. Rainier. We'll
>never know. I am not a Sceptic, but things do have a reasonable
>explination sometimes.

We still maintain that it was swamp gas. Gripple Works had an
early fresh wine research station in that area. You shoulda'
seen the stench wafting up into the atmosphere, then congealing
into little saucer-like thingies and flitting away like scared
wabbits. Shhhhh! Don't tell any of the researchers about this,
we don't wanna spoil their holiday.

Gesundt





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                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 99 14:23:13 PDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:14:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:22:07 -0500
>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>With the compliments, and feline smirk, of House Mendoza:

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 99 21:39:15 PST


Peter, not to mention patient and gentle listfolk:

>This, and John Rimmer's post which it refers, are now
>archived in the 10 000 gigabyte Mendoza Cray Archives in a
>folder entitled 'Missing The Point' inside another folder
>entitles 'The Strange World of Jerome Clark, Wandering Boy
>Bishop'.

Hey, don't bishops, even wandering boy ones, get _paid_? Where's
my check?  Where is the adoring flock?  Where's my rent-free
office, or that car I get to wander in?

>My point: Introduction. Jerome ploughs on for several
>typically verbose [sic] paragraphs about the shortcomings he
>perceives in the psychosocial hypothesis (PSH). Jerome
>conveniently forgets how many times he has been reminded
>that this is not one, but several, loosely interrelated
>hypotheses, with a number of writers pushing their own
>corners of an envelope on whose presice [sic] contents they
>are not necessarily wholly agreed upon. No wonder he finds
>it curious that "Magonia" printed a largely friendly review
>of his Encyclopedia. He cannot tolerate ambiguity,
>apparently!

And Peter's sense of humor seems sadly lacking here. He
apparently thinks I am obliged to write a lengthy, detailed
paper for this list before I can say anything at all. Of course
even the short remarks I made get characterized as "verbose,"
thus making it clear that what Peter really wants is for me just
to shut up so that he doesn't have to hear a point of view that
evidently causes him much pain and distress.

In fact, if he could read better, he would have seen that my
posting was just a light-hearted response to a dumb,
self-serving statement John Rimmer, who is not ordinarily dumb
or self-serving, had made. I have written at length on the PSH
(of which John is a leading and articulate advocate), skeptics
and debunkers, and the hard evidence for UFO reality elsewhere,
in books and periodicals some of you, though apparently not
Peter, have read.  Those who want a full accounting, and a
serious, detailed examination of these issues, are referred to
these.

In any event, lighten up, guy, and stop with the crazy
accusations.  The one thing of which I am perhaps most tolerant
in the world is ambiguity, and that's why I am a lifelong
Fortean.  Ambiguity is a good thing to be tolerant of, my
friend. You ought to try it.  Beats name-calling, anyway.

>My point: Statement. Nowhere in John Rimmer's post do we
>find an attempt to promote the PSH. Nowhere, even, do we
>find it mentioned. What we find when we look, and read, and
>mark, and learn, is an asseveration of a truth universally
>acknowledged, that those fallen into a sympthay with the
>extra-terrestrial hypothesis (ETH) have been reluctant to
>produce - even recusant on the matter, as in the Boy
>Bishop's case - specific UFO cases that are especially
>suggestive of an ET "solution". Last time around Mark
>Cashman had the balls to offer a list. This time Bruce
>Maccabee unzips his list and stands up [sic] to be counted,
>and finds he has more than ten. Good. Now let ten or more
>brave souls do likewise, and perhaps, variegated as these
>individual lists may be, we may find ten that all include.
>Then we can set-to on them, at least.

>My point: Variation. All this waffle, which verges on the ad
>hominem, to which we know the Boy Bishop is ever too pure to
>descend, about librarians and English majors (I am pleased
>to be neither, so remain slightly baffled, if very bored
>indeed, with the tireless repetition of this old saw) does
>nothing to dispose of John's point that skeptics he has
>known (in the UK at least) have come to their current
>condition, perhaps best characterized by Raymond Cahndler's
>[sic] phrase "the dewy-eyed innocence of used-car salesmen",
>through hard work and wide experience. Helpful advice from
>the Boy Bishop for such good folk to "really get out more"
>is at best supercilious, at middle oblique, at worst plain
>stupid.

That was a _joke_ about getting out, guy.  Lemme repeat: a JOKE.
In point of fact, I know from personal experience (subject, of
course, to psychosocial exegesis and the usual blather about the
worthlessness of anecdotal testimony) that John Rimmer gets out
at least once in a while, because on one pleasant occasion I
spent an evening with him in a Chinese restaurant in London. I
could have sworn you were there, too, but maybe it was just your
representative, possibly explaining why earlier he had
introduced himself to Bill Ellis under the misapprehension that
he was renewing an acquaintanceship with Jerry Clark.  (As
possible further evidence that this was your representative, not
your own esteemed self, listfolk will be interested to learn
that Bill Ellis _has facial hair_. For the significance of this,
see below.)

>My point: Second statement. We may choose to divine from the
>fine spray of this Diocesean Discourse that St Jerome has a
>certain fondness for the following UFO cases:

>1. RB-47, as analysed by Brad Sparks
>2. McMinnville, as analysed by Brad Sparks & Bruce M'bee
>3. The Coyne helicopter case, as analysed by J. Zeider

That's Zeidman, guy.

>After that, generalities, and some of the usual heroes
>(saints) ofered [sic] devotions (a ritual recognizable by
>the prodigious amount of arm-waving indulged by the
>officiant). But here we have a start. We could probably add
>the Trans-en-Provence case, which we recall the Boy Wonder
>[sic] has defended in the past here & elsewhere. Well,
>that's half way. Perhaps another five could be squeezed or
>seduced out of the beardless lad, and we might be somewhere
>near some insight into the nature of the holy relics hidden
>in the mildewed crypts of Canby Cathedral!

Thank you for informing those listfolk who have never met or
seen me that I am without mustache or beard.  I'm sure this
answers a question that has festered in their minds for God
knows how long, even as they were too shy or frightened to ask
it.

>My point: Coda. It's observable - and, "of course, of some
>mild psychosocial interest in itself" - that the Blessed
>Jerome offers us not _cases_ that may perhaps support the
>ETH or even demolish the PSH, but interpretations of those
>cases as admirable. Thus yet another layer of thought is
>interposed between the original experience and its
>assessment. While the Boy Bishop becomes in my darker
>moments a prime candidate for the next Archbishop of
>Canterbury, so broad is his mind and his fudgery and his
>reluctance to express his own true ufological wisdom, it
>does also occur to me that PSHers the world over are
>justified in wondering when this scholar of canonical texts
>last considered the nature of actual experience, or even got
>outside his front door, rather than promoting what somebody
>said about what somebody said about what somebody said about
>what someone else may or may not have seen when the small
>rain down did rain on a rainy night in Georgia, or Wigan
>pier, or Jericho. This layering and re-interpretation alone
>justifies a psychosocial approach to what is loosely called
>"the UFO phenomenon". Meanwhile, the needling of actual
>individual cases in the pages of "Magonia" sails right past
>the point on top of the Boy Bishop's head, which so nicely
>matches the one on his slightly skew-wiff mitre.

My word.  And Peter whines about _my_ verbosity. As the late,
lamented Mary Margaret Fuller used to say when reading a
particularly vacuous manuscript, "There's not a fact in a
carload here."  The boy bishop, it appears, has had his case
rested for him.

So far Peter hasn't called Brad Sparks a boy bishop, though we
may presume that will happen shortly.  I refer list members whom
Peter's verbosity has not driven into a deep coma to Brad's
recent postings documenting the long, conveniently ignored
history of ufologists' list-making of what they regard as
particularly evidential cases.  Reading Brad's words constitutes
time much better spent than is wasted on anything that has
passed between Peter and me. I apologize to readers from whose
lives Peter and I have stolen precious, unrecoverable minutes.

Cheers,

Jerry Clark (or whatever name Peter is calling me
currently)






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   Apr > Apr 5

                           Re: Kraus vs. Friedman

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:41:42 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:21:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Kraus vs. Friedman


>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:53:15 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

<snip>

>This last point gets to the heart of the matter. The general
>issue of alien visitation is so a prior ludicrous, on the basis
>of any sound physical reasoning, that any claim that it has
>actually happened would have to meet the strongest skepticism
>and scrutiny.

Translation: "Sound physical reasoning" means his assumptions
and understanding. He personally can't understand how it can be
done, ergo, it must be impossible. Since it is impossible, no
need to look at any evidence to the contrary.

>There are many strange things in the world, but
>as the physicist Richard Feynman used to point out, scien- tists
>only have a finite amount of time to work on projects. So they
>choose exciting projects, but more important they work on things
>which are likely to have some possibility of being right. The
>reason that most people, such as myself, don't spend time
>investigating each detailed claim is that the a priori
>probability that it is true is almost zero.... Thus, I cannot
>prove that the claims are false, I can just say that I expect
>that they are... and each time I see something like the
>purported hard evidence, I find it isn't.

It is quite evident that from his debate with Stanton Friedman,
Kraus has made no real effort to look at _any_ of the evidence.
The extent of Kraus' research into UFOs seems to be watching a
popularized TV special during sweeps week that purported to
offer hard evidence, but did a very poor job of presenting it.
That's like dismissing genetic engineering and paleontology
because of the way they were portrayed in Jurassic Park.

A good example of Kraus' arrogance and ignorance

The point is that any explanation, no matter how implausible, of
the claims, is more plausible than ascribing them to alien
visitation.

That's a real classic line which is the exact antithesis of what
science is really about.

Thus, as long as there is any other explanation which remains
equally, or more plausible, why should I, or anyone jump to the
conclusion that aliens are involved.

So let's example the "logic" here. Kraus "knows" that alien
visitation is "impossible."  By defining "any explanaton, no
matter how implausible







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                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:33:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:23:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:03:08 EST
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>To: updates@globalserve.net

<snip>

>Some skeptics, such as Menzel and Sheaffer, have provably
>distorted or ignored evidence, though I almost never see
>specific examples cited on this List (till Mark's posting and
>Jerry Clark's).  Menzel distorted the facts of his own sighting
>of May 1949 (reducing their angular size, etc.), miscalculated
>the setting time of Jupiter in the Gorman case, and invented
>nonexistent "atmospheric lenses" to explain UFO cases, which
>McDonald pointed out would require absurd temperature inversions
>of 100,000's of degrees per unit distance (1000 feet, mile, km,
>doesn't much matter when it's 4 to 5 orders of magnitude too
>large).

>Sheaffer invented a nonexistent "tangle of threads" on a wire
>above the Trent/McMinnville UFO in his Plate 19 of his UFO
>Verdict book where no such thing is to be found.  When I
>personally challenged him on this at a meeting of Bay Area
>Skeptics in May 1985 he had no answer at all, instead he tried
>to shut off the dialogue by changing the subject and eventually
>turned the lights off in the meeting room when his own BAS
>skeptics wanted to hear him answer these rebuttal points I made.

>Now, 14 years later, Sheaffer points to an amorphous fuzz spot
>that is _not_ above the UFO but off to the left and is _above_
>the wire and not actually touching it, and it appears in the
>wrong Trent photo than that cited in his book.  It is apparently
>a film defect not a real object since it does _not_ appear in the
>_other_ Trent Photo.

It was my realization/discovery some 20 years ago that the
skeptics played fast and loose with the data and analysis that
made me

<gulp>

(Oh, heresy, they name is Bruce....)

SKEPTICAL OF THE SKEPTICS!!!






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                       Changes at The Temporal Doorway

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 00:16:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:26:49 -0400
Subject: Changes at The Temporal Doorway


This weekend a complete renovation of The Temporal Doorway was
uploaded. Nearly 400 pages, 10,000 internal links, 1,000
external links and 1,000 files were affected by this change.

You'll notice a new look and a new navigation bar at the top of
each page. Pages and other files have been relocated and renamed
to ease future growth and maintenance.

In the UFO section, the location of the reports is unchanged,
but nearly everything else has been moved. Redirection pages
have been left at the old location of some of the most
frequently visited of those pages, but, obviously, this could
not be done for everything without compromising the point of the
renovation.

If you have links or bookmarks to any of the pages at The
Temporal Doorway, I urge you to verify them and make any needed
alterations. Please feel free to let me know if you run into any
problems or need the URL for any of the material that has been
moved. Also let me know if you have any other problems when
using pages at The Temporal Doorway.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------






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                          BWW Media Alert 19990404

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:49:38 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:33:20 -0400
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19990404



Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A
HREF=3D"http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin
</A>
<A
HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/bufosweirdworld">Lin=
k
to Amazon.com
</A>

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this=

edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to
http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make=

sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

April 4, 1999

I used to occassionally list live events, and I'm doing that again this=
 time.
 Let me know what you think about it.  I'm doing partially this time because=

of the extraordinary opportunity to see Joe Firmage.

On to the listings: Times are generally Pacific.

LIVE EVENTS (lectures, etc.)

What: SH.I.F.T. SHaring Information on Fringe Topics Speakers
When: Wednesday, April 7, 7:30 PM
Where: , the Redwood City Womans Club,149 Clinton St., Redwood City,
California
Who: Dr. Steven Greer of CSETI
Cost: $10.00
Contact Information: call Charles Grotsky at 650-343-5202 .

What: MUFON FIELD INVESTIGATOR TRAINING SEMINAR
When: Sunday APRIL 18, 1999, 10 A.M. til 5 P.M.
Where: The B'Hai Center, 170 Valencia Street  (Between Duboce * McCoppin)
San Francisco, California
Who:  JOE FIRMAGE (former CEO of
USWeb)(http://www.thewordistruth.org/login.cfm)
BOB WOOD http://www.ufomind.com/people/w/wood/ (Fund for UFO Research)
RYAN WOOD http://www.artbell.com/majestic.html (U.S. Government UFO Document=

Researcher)
JOHN SHIRLEY, http://www.darkecho.com/JohnShirley/jsbiblio.html, (Author:
Silicon Embrace. Wetbones, Black Butterflies.Screenwriter, :The Crow.The
Specialist.Star Trek Deep Space 9, Lyricist: Blue Oyster Cult.)
Price: $30 for the day including lunch
Contact information: O, O & O
4 STRATHMOOR DRIVE
BERKELEY, CA 94705   Attn: MUFON SEMINAR
Or:
Call Ted Oliphant, Training Coordinator, Northern California MUFON
http://www.realityb.com/Articles/
@ (510) 288 3203


RADIO

Eddie Middleton's very popular show in the South, Nightsearch, has a website=

at
<A HREF=3D"http://listen.to/nightsearch">http://listen.to/nightsearch<;/A>.=

Unfortunately, no streaming audio.

Don Ecker, of UFO MAGAZINE, host STRANGE DAZE on the Liberty Works. It can=
 be
heard on streaming Real Audio at
<A
HREF=3D"http://www.broadcast.com/radio/talk/lwrn">http://www.broadcast.com/r=
adio
/talk/lwrn
</A>.

JEFF RENSE - SIGHTINGS
Quite simply, this is my favorite show on which to appear. Jeff is
well-versed on the topics, but likes to let the guests speak. You can hear=

Real Audio of the show, and there are archives as well. Go to
<A HREF=3D"http://www.sightings.com/">http://www.sightings.com/<;/A> for more=

information. The show is on at 7:00 PM Pacific Monday through Saturday, and=

8:00 PM Pacific on Sunday. You can hear it anywhere through your computer.=
 To
subscribe to the Jeff Rense Weekly E-news (which includes articles), e-mail=

(subject: Subscribe)
<A HREF=3D"mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net">mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net</A>.
Tuesday, April 6, 1999, 7:00 PM, Ted Phillips on the physical evidence for=

UFOs
Wednesday, April 7, 7:00 PM, Michael Lindemann's weekly UFO update; Greg
Braden on spiritual awakening
Thursday, April 8, 7:00 PM, Chris Morton and Ceri Louise on crystal skulls
Friday, April 9, 7:00 PM, LIVE from England: Nick Pope , (
<A
HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0440234875/bufosweirdworld">T=
he
Uninvited (Pope) (paperback)
</A>) British military UFO expert
Saturday, April 10, 7:00 PM, David John Oates Reverse Speech Show
TELEVISION

A&E

Thursday, April 8, 6:00 PM, THE UNEXPLAINED: UFO CULTS (includes Heaven's
Gate)
Thursday, April 8, 10:00 PM, THE UNEXPLAINED: UFO CULTS (includes Heaven's=

Gate)
Next Sunday, April 11, 11:00 AM, THE UNEXPLAINED: UFO CULTS (includes
Heaven's Gate)

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL

Next Thursday, April 15, 10:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT SERPENTS
Next Friday, April 16, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT SERPENTS

LIFETIME

Thursday, April 8, 11:00 PM, NEW ATTITUDES ("psychic salons")
Thursday, April 9:30 AM, NEW ATTITUDES ("psychic salons")

THE LEARNING CHANNEL

Sunday, April 4, 2:30 PM, PALEOWORLD: THE LOCH NESS SECRET (this may be
stretching things=85a dinosaur skeleton is found which the blurb says is=
 like
reports of the Loch Ness monster)
Next Wednesday, April 14, 9:00 PM, HAUNTED LIGHTHOUSES
Next Thursday, April 15, 12:00 AM, HAUNTED LIGHTHOUSES

NBC

Friday, April 9, 8:00 PM, UNSOLVED MYSTERIES (includes bigfoot and a psychic=

healer=85not in the same story ;)
Next Friday, April 16, 8:00 PM, UNSOLVED MYSTERIES (trauma-induced psychics;=

British castle haunting)

THE SCIENCE CHANNEL

The new schedule (since December 28, 1998) is weird programming for an hour=

each at 3:00 AM, 11:00 AM,and 7:00 PM. Alternating shows are: INTO THE
UNKNOWN and ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE. They also run a Roswell=

show now every other week (it's probably the same show every time) at 4:00=
 AM
and noon on Sundays.

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL

Tuesday, April 6, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #4051 (haunting; videotapes=
 of
UFOs; psychics and MIAs; alien abductions; labyrinths)
Wednesday, April 7, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5058 (Gulf Breeze UFOs;
mystery lights in Texas; Chillingham Castle haunting; precognition)
Thursday, April 8, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5059 (secret UFO group
MJ-12; Brazilian haunting; mammoth clone; the Sphinx; cattle mutilations)
Friday, April 9 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS EPISODE #5060
Tuesday, April 13, 11:00 AM , SIGHTINGS EPISODE #5061 (Argentinian UFO/plane=

encounter; dog detects cancer; haunted internet; antigravity; UFO documents)=

Wednesday, April 14, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS EPISODE #5062 (Heartland ghost;=
 UFOs
and missile effects; face on Mars; crop circles; Nostradamus)
Thursday, April 15, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4052  (government UFO
denials; psychics; bigfoot; Mexican UFOs; New Mexico's Highway 666)
Friday, April 16, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS EPISODE #5063 (Illinois haunting;
Russian ball-of-light/airplane encounter; angels)

___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =3Deverything=3D seemed normal, that =3Dwould=3D be=
 weird!"
____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to=
 Bufo's
WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if there is=

something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the
week before.
_____________________________

Back to <A HREF=3D"http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html">BufoCalvin'=
s
Home Page
</A>
Back to <A HREF=3D"http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin/ma.html">Bufo's WEIRD=

WORLD Media Alert
</A>
Back to <A HREF=3D"http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD=

WORLD Books
</A>

E-mail to <A HREF=3D"mailto:bufocalvin@aol.com">BufoCalvin@aol.com</A>








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   Apr > Apr 5

               Ultra Secret US 'National Intelligence Service'

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 07:28:10 GMT
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:36:20 -0400
Subject: Ultra Secret US 'National Intelligence Service'


Source: Mind Control Forum,

http://www.mk.net/~mcf/archv-hm.htm#Fleming

James Thomas Fleming's site is at:

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Choir/9701/

It all sounds a little too much like a combination of the infamous
SETI hoax (the alleged 'Defense Intelligence Agency' seal) and a James
Bond novel by Ian Fleming.

Arresting 'James Thomas Fleming' and closing down  the site would
imply that the DIA somehow validated the totally unproven allegations.

Stig

***


James Thomas Fleming


In his report, James Thomas Fleming, former Project Coordinator
of the National Intelligence Service, details how acoustic mind
control experiments were conducted there. Certain frequencies
would allow controllers to create assasins of unsuspecting
subjects.

The report is taken from Thomas Fleming's web site, TKREALM:
Mind Control - Secret Experiments. He urges readers to save it
to disk as he fears retribution from the government. Check the
site for updates.

1-99. From an anonymous E-mail:

Jim has been arrested by the DSS. None of us know whether or not
he will be charged, or what will happen to him.

He said to take what he gave you and propogate it as much as
possible. This would help to accomplish his goal of speading the
truth as well as gain support in the court of public opinion.

As of 1-99 Mr. Fleming's site reads only:

Access Denied. This site has been decommissioned pending
investigation.

It bears the seal of the Defense Intelligence Agency, which
links to it.

E-mail:    flemingjt@hotmail.com

****************************************************************

Source: Mind Control Forum,

http://www.mk.net/~mcf/fleming.htm

Stig

***

James Thomas Fleming NIS Expose

E-mail:    flemingjt@hotmail.com

Web Site:    TKREALM: Mind Control - Secret Experiments

[From the web site, above.]
 Welcome to my web site. My name is James Thomas Fleming, former
Project Coordinator of the National Intelligence Service. You
have probably never heard of the NIS. It is not unlike the CIA,
but I assure you its past is much darker. This is my story which
I would recommend for everyone to read.

The NIS is the most secretive government agency in existance.
They conduct foreign and domestic intelligence operations, keep
files on everyone (including you) and devise high technology for
use in intelligence and weapons systems for the government. The
NIS was created by executive order with the signing of the
National Security Act of 1947. So secret was to be the nature of
the NIS that its name was not even referred to in the text of
the act - it exists due to a deliberate loophole in the
language. They receive billions of dollars of defense funding
annually, which is covered up by attributing it to other
agencies, and various public service programs which do not
actually exist.

My background in government work found me at NIS headquarters in
Washington D.C. one cold winter day. I was applying for a job
through the advice of a friend of mine who worked there. The
building was relatively small and unassuming. On the hazy glass
of the door to the recruitment center was the seal of the NIS;
an eagle with its wings spread, with thirteen stars representing
the original colonies in a circular formation. The motto,
"Vigilantis pretium Liberatis" - Vigilance is the price of
Freedom.

I was interviewed, given a polygraph and sent on my way. It was
nothing new to a government guy like me. The next day I received
a phone call saying that I had gotten the job as an operations
specialist.

For three years, I worked conducting counterintelligence
activities. My background in psychology eventually got me
assigned to the Behavioral Science Unit. At the BSU, we profiled
foreign and domestic officials of particular interest and sent
our findings on up the line. We were also given essentially free
reign to conduct research at NIS general laboratories in
Bethesda, MD. This was a mistake on the part of the agency - my
collegues and I in the unit soon began to diverge off onto a
path of research into what are known as "altered states" - we
were interested in the possible forceful induction of hypnotic
states by means of drugs and/or neural stimulation by means of
light, sound and radiation.

It was during this stage that we found a "magic bullet". In this
case, it was a certain frequency and type of sound that causes
instantanious depression of neurotransmitters in the higher
regions of the brain. This, we found conclusively, effectively
deactivated the conscious mind, reducing an individual to basic
stimulus-response operations; not unlike an animal.

We eagerly reported our research findings to the Assistant
Project Coordinator. This was no small breakthrough in the field
of psychology. In fact, the oversight commission had a special
meeting just to learn of our findings. They were pleased, but
wanted more research to be conducted before any operations
applications were devised. Our experiments were acknowledged as
an official project and assigned the codename TKREALM.

So we began experiments on humans, as it was apparent that this
system was only effective on them, and we didn't want to waste
time with animal experiments. We posted a bogus add in the
paper, asking for people who wanted to be models to appear for
screening. We would take them each into a room, sit them down
and tell them we'd be right back. Then the signal was turned on.
Through a one-way mirror, we observed the subject slump in their
seat, as though dead. Then we began conditioning them to perform
tasks. First they were simple, like picking up a ball. Then,
through successive approximation, we managed to get them to play
tunes on a synthesizer and do other complex things. Of course,
operational use was always foremost. We started conditioning
them to shoot firearms into a dummy target on an indoor range,
and to slip capsules into drinks in an unassuming fashion. Soon
we realized what we had created in our study already - a legion
of zombie assassins.

The effects of the treatment were biological in nature, although
we were not certain as to which neurotransmitter blockers were
being secreted, or from which gland. The symptoms would wear
off, but only after several hours without treatment. It was
unknown how long someone could survive the state.

It was after the submittal of our second report that the Project
Coordinator, who had been contemplating retirement, selected me
to succeed him. After almost a year as the acting PC, I was
confirmed by the Senate Intelligence committee. This position of
power was totally unexpected for me, and although I had
reservations, I was grateful.

No longer working in the lab, I began to devote more funding to
my collegues to continue the research we had started together.
It was not long thereafter that I received the first report of
"incident".

The phone call woke me up at 6:00am. A female subject in one of
the experiments had blown the head off of an NIS field agent
with his own service weapon (an HK USP). When I asked how it
happened, there was dead silence for a few seconds, then "I
think you should get down here, sir."

Special Agent Charles Hayward was dead in the hallway. His body
had not been moved. I put on the gloves, as usual, and made a
visual inspection of the scene. Blood and brain matter caked the
wall. The sight was sickening. It was at this point that the
reality of the situation hit me - the program must be
terminated.

The woman soon regained her consciousness and showed no signs of
any memory of the event. Rather than tell her the shocking truth
of what she had done (which would have compromised security
anyway), we sent her on her way.

I called an emergency meeting with the oversight committee. The
project was immediately discontinued at NIS, but I found that
details had been piped to DoD (Department of Defense) all along!
This enfuriated me. As coordinator, I had the final word in any
joint operations, and this was a clear violation. The
responsible party had vanished without a trace - only later did
I find that he was a plant for the National Security Agency. The
research, I am sure, has continued outside of the hands of the
NIS. Determined to stop it, I sent memos to the white house.

For my insistance on moral grounds, I was "awarded" removal from
my position and blacklisted for further government employment.
The order came from the top of the executive branch.

Revealing this story on the Internet for the first time makes me
liable to criminal indictment. Before they tear down this page,
make a copy! print it and send it to your senator or
congressman! Please; you are my only hope of propogating the
truth about this project.

Sincerely, -- Jim Fleming

Please send me an e-mail to express your views or ask for any
information. You had better do so before I am "strung up" by the
authorities for creating this site.

****************************************************************

Source: Mind control Forum,

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Choir/9701/

Stig

***

Access Denied

This site has been decommissioned pending investigation.

****************************************************************








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 5

                 Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *** 4-2-99

From: YourName [Josh Goldstein] <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 00:23:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:43:15 -0400
Subject: Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News ***  4-2-99

>Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 02:45:33 -0800
>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re:  *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News ***  4-2-99

>>From: Rense E-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:05:47 -0600
>>Subject:  *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News***  4-2-99

>>***Jeff Rense Weekly E-News***

<snip>


Hi Errol,

Thanks for the insight regarding postings and the problems
with you using correct line lengths. Using Netscape is really no
problem for me as I can shrink the window to the proper size
before I start typing. The problem was myself, as I would often
forget to do that and I would start typing first, then remember
and have to cut and paste. I will be more diligent with myself.
Remember, Josh! Errol, I hope I'm not too much of a pain in the
butt for you. <g>

Errol, I want to personally thank you for all the time and hard
work you put into keeping this list in great shape as a vital
tool of communication in Ufology.






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 5

                                     Re:

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 05:59:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:48:30 -0400
Subject: Re:


The following article is courtesy of Mr. Jeffrey S. Westover, an
investigator from Michigan. The article mentions several recent
sightings near Unionville, Michigan on March 16.

On March 11 and 14th, two sightings were reported from Clyde and
Fremont, Ohio, one of which was sighted by a deputy who was
dispatched to the scene. I opened my map and was slightly
curious about a near- straight line that could be drawn from
Unionville, Michigan to Fremont, Ohio with the locations of
Milan, Michigan and Toledo, Ohio -where other sightings were
reported from- situated in-between. Details of Toledo and Milan
remain elusive. There were some indications that UFO sightings
were reported near these two locations around this same
time-frame, but these vague reports are without verification.

        For info on this see -
        http://home.fuse.net/ufo/fremontupdate.htm

Thanks much to Jeff Westover for passing along the following
message:

-------------------

Jeffrey S. Westover wrote:

A front page news story concerning area UFO sightings ran this
past Wednesday (March 31) in the Marlette (Michigan) Leader and
Huron Daily Tribune (Bad Axe, MI) newspapers.

The DeBoever/Unionville sighting was the topic of a WNEM TV-5
(CBS affiliate from Saginaw, MI) news story covered by Jay
Brandow.  The following week, on Friday March 26, WEYI TV-25
(NBC affiliate from Clio, MI) also covered local UFO sightings
in their local newscast.  The reporter allegedly had her own
sighting just before the cameras rolled.  I did not watch the
TV-25 broadcast but am led to believe that they reported a
completely different sighting in the Bay City/Midland area.

Below is the transcripted news story as appeared in the 3/31
Marlette Leader Newspaper.

        UNUSUAL SIGHTINGS IN THE SKY PEAK INTEREST IN THE THUMB
        The Marlette Leader
        March 31, 1999

        By Stacy Langley (Huron Daily Tribune-Bad Axe, MI)

Unusual sightings have been the talk of town in Unionville
(Michigan) and several surrounding communities as residents
compare stories and probe officials about the weird light
spotted in the skies last week.

The past few years, sightings of unidentified objects in the sky
have been quite common and without much explanation.

Adiel DeBoever of Unionville said he was the first person to
call Tuscola County Central Dispatch around 8:30 p.m. March 16
just after he spotted the lights in the sky hovering over his
home.

DeBoever said this is the first time he's seen lights like this.
He said they were bright orange in color and looked to be
shining from the inside of an object.

"The lights weren't like a spotlight shinning down from the sky,
but they were very noticeable", he said.

The sighting by DeBoever was just one of five reported that
night by area residents who say they saw the unidentified flying
object(s). DeBoever, who lives on Cottage Drive near Unionville,
says the lights would just blink out of sight and then come back
on, but the object seemed to remain in the same place the whole
time.

"The lights were off and then came back on, it was eerie", he
said.

DeBoever recalls that as far as distance, the light probably
were half a mile away to the east, just above the Department of
Natural Resources wetlands when he saw them.

"They spanned about the entire length of a football field. There
were two sets of light clusters which were bright orange.  The
larger one could have been further away", he said.  "When my
nephew came out of the house I said 'Eddie, there's a UFO in the
sky' just joking and then the light blinked out, but came on
this time.

"It appeared to separate into six other lights and they all
moved and stopped in the shape of a large triangle object which
then appeared to rotate on its axis."

Officials at the Tuscola County Central Dispatch say they have
no explanation for what the lights were that night, but say that
DeBoever wasn't alone in the sightings.

Shortly after DeBoever's call, Central Dispatch reports a call
came in at 8:57 p.m. from a Juanita Township resident who
reported seeing orange lights in the sky.

Just two minutes later, a Novesta Township woman called with a
similar sighting.  Callers from Fremont Township and the
Fairgrove area followed.  The caller described seeing orange
lights in the shape of a football field, while the Fairgrove
residents reported seeing a Z-shaped formation in the sky.

Officials from Selfridge Air National Guard Base said they
couldn't offer any explanation about the lights in the sky, and
no sightings were reported to the base.

End of article


Jeffrey S. Westover comments:

"I spoke with TV-5 news reporter Jay Brandow before this
sighting was published in the Marlette Leader and following the
TV-5 broadcast. Brandow told me that Selfridge had sent two
F-16's into the area."






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   Apr > Apr 5

                              Address Book Loss

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 19:28:47 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:50:14 -0400
Subject: Address Book Loss


Desar colleagues,

For some reason my e-mail address book, or at least part of it,
has gone AWOL. I've lost all addresses from S - Z ???

I logged peoples names using their first names first, so I've
lost everyone from Sam to Zak.

If you fall into this category I would greatly appreciate it if
you could e-mail me direct at: pmufo@dial.pipex.com


Many thanks,

Philip Mantle.

PS. Please circulate widely.






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   Apr > Apr 5

                             Re: UFO*BC Updates

From: Yourname [Josh Goldstein] <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 03:58:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:53:53 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO*BC Updates


Fellow Updates subscribers.

The thread regarding Friedman vs. Krauss triggered off a lot of
discussion and a cheapshot from the Duke of Mendoza. I think we
should disregard the PSH - ETH arguments and have some notable
researchers in the UFO field such as Friedman, Clark, Hall,
Cashman, and others put together a file of bonafide cases based
on examples such as the White Sands film and others of that
nature, military and civilian pilot sightings, missile silo
experiences, USAF bases near the Canadian border, and many other
strong cases. This casebook should be much stronger than the
Society for Scientific Exploration study. This casebook should
be presented directly to notable scientists and may raise their
interest. Stay objective, not claiming these are
extraterrestrial, but present it as evidence of objective
unknown phenomena, causing scientists to say "food for thought,
grounds for further research".  Forget skeptics with closed
minds such as Klass, etc. They seem to be lost in themselves, as
the British PSH club of Magonian chaps seem to be. Perhaps they
should try going to a sunnier and warmer climate. It would most
likely burn off their crabby dispositions and the Magonia mold.
Phil Klass seems to have dug himself into his own very large
Klasshole, even though he is such a nice guy.

Stephen Greer claims to have 200 witnesses, many former military
with security clearances. He has not gotten anywhere with his
Congressional and Executive branch briefings. Bill McDonald did
not get far with Congress either. I feel Steven Greer should
hold a press briefing with all his witnesses present to tell
their stories, name names and sources of further evidence.
Perhaps Sara McClendon could help set it up. As far as I know,
witnesses from Roswell and other cases who took security oaths
have not been prosecuted for talking about their UFO
experiences. Dr. Greer is not getting anywhere with attempts to
obtain immunity for his witnesses. He feels the strength is
bringing these people out together (strength and validity in
numbers) rather than one by one. I say go for it and stop
waiting for the government to do anything. While many of us have
skeptical opinions of CSETI, I hope Dr. Greer is legitimate
regarding these witnesses. Let's try to get them public as a
group and stand behind their right to relate experiences that
may have a great bearing on all of us.

Josh Goldstein





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   Apr > Apr 5

                      'United States Space Foundation'?

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 11:29:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:09:33 -0400
Subject: 'United States Space Foundation'?


Anybody know what the United States Space Foundation is?

Forwarded from net

>Photobit Corporation, the leading supplier of CMOS image sensors
>("cameras-on-a-chip"), has announced that the United States
>Space Foundation, in cooperation with NASA, will induct
>principal officers and staff of the firm into the Space
>Technology Hall of Fame on April 8 in Colorado Springs,
>Colorado.

>The honorees are to include Photobit's CEO Dr. Sabrina Kemeny,
>chairman and chief scientist Dr. Eric Fossum, deputy product
>division manager Mr. Robert Nixon, new-product marketing manager
>Dr. Barmak Mansoorian and senior engineer Mr. Roger Paniacci.
>The five are credited with successfully commercializing
>lower-power digital image-capture technology they invented in
>1992 while at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

>Dr. Kemeny and Dr. Fossum are available for phone briefings to
>discuss the award and the future of the technology they helped
>develop.  Please feel free to call me at (212) 704-8277.

>Regards,

>Larry Greenberg






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                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:02:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:00:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:36:57 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

<snip>

>I know it's a hopeless question, and Serge Salvaille has
>specifically ruled himself out from answering it, but I'll try
>again: can we have a list of the ten UFO cases giving the best
>evidence for an extraterrestrial origin for the UFO phenomenon?.

>I won't hold my breath.

John seems to forget that we went through this exercise a number
of months ago - in two ways. 1) Lists of cases were advanced.
and 2) The nature of the provability of the ETH was discussed,
and it did not include the "10 case" strawman.

John also seems to hold the odd idea that failing to prove the
ETH renders the whole phenomenon moot. As he and most of the
readers on this list know, while I am not an ETH proponent, I am
an OEH (Objective Existence Hypothesis) proponent. Objective
existence is the most parsimonious explanation of a phenomenon
whose many highest quality cases include the hundreds in the
Project 1947 EM Effects catalog, the BUFORA and CUFOS vehicle
interference studies, the Schuessler catalog of medical effects
from UFOs and the Phillips Physical Trace catalog.

Objective existence is also the most parsimonious explanation of
the following cases, which are from my evidential cases catalog
at:

http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/catalog/evidential/index.htm

These are only a small subset of the interesting cases, and the
criteria for their selection is provided. Many other cases which
meet these criteria exist.

--- catalog starts ---

This catalog contains cases of particular evidential value. These
cases are selected to meet the following criteria:

1.Multiple witnesses - simultaneous or in series. If in series,
the events reported by each must bear an essential similarity.

2.Physical evidence, measurements, photographs, or medical
effects.

3.Reliable witnesses - police, political, military, aviation,
professional, technical, business.

Cases

8/25/51 Ducker et. al.; Hart (photographer), Lubbock, TX, 9:10PM
"The Lubbock Lights" - A hundred or more persons, including
several college professors, observe a fast flying formation of
lights which recurs at least 12 times on subsequent nights
across a period of weeks and is photographed 7/3/97

7/16/52 Paul Hill, Hampton, VA; 8PM Four object rendezvous.
Witness was aeronautical engineer and used triangulation from
other witnesses to determine size (20'), distance (3 mi), and
acceleration (100g) of objects Objects perform manuvers with
exceptionally high accelerations 8/4/97

11/2/57 Multiple Witnesses, Levelland TX; 11PM 15 witnesses
(including police) observed a large (200') luminous object which
blocked roads and interfered with auto ignition and electrical
systems before departing. One of the most important EM effects
cases. Objects cause vehicle interference effects, including
motor stoppage, headlight failures, and the pulsing of object
luminosity is synchronized with variation in car headlight
brightness 8/4/97

8/2/65 Robert Campbell, Patrolman Peter McCollum, Sherman TX; 3
AM Object photographed while hovering; extruded luminous
extension, ejected material - events photographed. Material is
ejected by some objects, and ejected material remains luminous
for some time after ejection 10/4/97

9/3/65 Muscarello, Officers Bertrand and Hunt, Exeter, NH, 3AM
Multiple independent witnesses observe close approach of object
with flashing red lights 4/18/97

7/20/67 Captain Ardanza and crew, Naviero, 120 mi off Cape Santa
Maria Grande, Brazil; 6:15 PM Sighting of submerged luminous
object without a wake UFO-type phenomena are observed occurring
under water 8/4/97

10/28/75 Sgt. Eichner et.al. Loring AFB, Maine 7:45PM Many
witnesses observed a luminous object scouting a nuclear weapons
storage facility. The object was tracked on radar; unusual
luminosity 7/13/97

1989-1990 Multiple incidents in Belgium Many independent
witnesses observe slow moving triangular objects and light
formations. Police witnesses, videotapes, photograph, radar
detection, fighter interception; Includes the famous
Petit-Rechain photos (taken from a distance of approx 300-400
feet), some commentary on the luminosity shown in those photos,
and a performance graph derived from F-16 interceptor radar
during one intercept near Wavre (altitude, heading and speed
changes of the unknown object are shown, including a 22G
acceleration and a 670 knot sustained dive). 4/27/98


Single Witness Physical Evidence Cases

Occasionally a single witness case generates sufficient physical
evidence to be of interest. Such is the case with those cited
below. Note that Hynek would normally have assigned a
probability of 3 or less to a single witness case, and that
these cases may be less reliable than multiple witness cases.
However, the presence of physical evidence unexplainable except
by the presence of a UFO makes these cases highly suggestive.

1/8/81 Renato Nicolai, Trans-en-Province, France, 5:00 PM A
circular trace was found and examined by police authorities, the
French space agency, and civilian investigators shortly after a
retired construction worker observed a UFO which landed on his
property. 8/5/98

--- catalog ends ---

There any many other cases which might be suggested and which I
have not yet included. The Trinidade photos, the Socorro NM
case, the Delphos KS case, the Leominster MA case and many
others which are much less well known meet these criteria.
Sparks has also suggested a minimum angular size of a half
degree, which is certainly a good idea.

In any event, as I have pointed out before, one cannot assess
the validity of the UFO phenomenon, or any possible explanations
for it without the presence of many cases, or without an
analysis of the patterns presented by those cases.

In my work on classification systems, I have developed several
systems which represent the salient patterns of the phenomenon:

1) A classification of UFO luminosity

http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/analysis/luminosity/index.htm


2) A classification of object and non-interactive occupant behavior

http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/classification/behavior/object.htm


3) A classification of interactive occupant behavior

http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/classification/behavior/occupant.htm

These systems represent the starting point for an assessment of
various hypotheses, including the ETH. Certainly, one thing is
clear from these systems and the cases of which they are
comprised: the behavior of UFOs and their occupants does not
appear to be that one would expect from human technology or
humans controlling an advanced technology. The presence of
non-humans in association with the phenomenon, is, as I have
stated in previous messages, the linchpin of the ETH.

Other important points which need to be demonstrated or refuted
to prove the ETH:

1) Arrival from and departure beyond the atmosphere.

2) Demonstration of the presence of UFOs in interplanetary
space.

Those which I believe have been demonstrated are:

1) Performance characteristics of UFOs which suggest they can
escape the earth's gravity (i.e. measured speeds close to, at,
or higher than escape velocity).

2) Association of non-human entities with UFOs.

3) Arrival from and departure toward the sky.

4) Non-human behavior pattern.

I trust that John will obtain copies of the BUFORA, CUFOS,
Schuessler, and Phillips catalogs the next time he is looking
for lists of cases which are suggestive of physical existence. I
also hope that someone will undertake to catalog cases which
meet or suggest the criteria above. Perhaps I will do so, and
perhaps others will as well.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------





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                            What's New at Magonia

From: Mark Pilkington <m.pilkington@virgin.net>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:43:30 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:21:41 -0400
Subject: What's New at Magonia


http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/newmag.htm

05/04/99

Magonia Monthly Supplement #13

The Southport UFO Convention, Tony Dodd & Jenny Randles books
reviewed, letters from Philip Klass, Peter Rogerson


UFOs as an Anti-scientific Symbol
John Rimmer, 1969. UFOs, their symbolism and the 60s underground

The Manchester Air Myth
One man's sorry tale of the 1995 Manchester airport "near miss"
By Rory Lushman


Mark Pilkington

"A heathen perhaps, but not, I hope, an unenlightened one."
Lord Summerisle
------------------------------------------------
Magonia Online


http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk





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   Apr > Apr 5

                        Magonia Monthly Supplement 13

From: Mark Pilkington <m.pilkington@virgin.net>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:45:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:26:15 -0400
Subject: Magonia Monthly Supplement 13

Magonia Monthly Supplement
 No. 13 March 1999

Editor: JOHN HARNEY


EDITORIAL

When I started this publication as ETH Bulletin, I hoped that
ufologists would point to cases they regarded as evidence for
the ETH. However, it was not to be, and the ETH continues to
weaken, particularly in Britain, where ufologists are becoming
clearly divided between those who wish to seek rational
explanations and those who find the ETH a source of lucrative
book contracts, appearances on TV chat shows, etc., rather than
a basis for scientific investigation.



SOUTHPORT UFO CONFERENCE

Having been unbolted from his armchair, your Editor attended the
Lancashire UFO Society's conference in Southport on 27 February.
The fairly informal proceedings were presided over by Tim
Matthews. He was wearing combat trousers, presumably to indicate
that he was ready to deal with any troublemakers, but this year
there was no hint of violence. The only disturbing event - or,
rather, non-event - was the failure of copies of his eagerly
awaited book to arrive at the conference hall as expected.
However, there were rumours of a copy having been sighted in a
bookshop in Manchester. (At the time of writing I have not yet
seen it.)

The first speaker was Jerry Anderson, of UFO Monitors East Kent
(UFOMEK), who, as far as I could tell, was the only southerner
present at this northern venue. Anderson started off with an
interesting close-encounter story from a man, now aged 84, who
had had his strange experience in 1954. Hearing strange noises
in the early mornings, he decided to investigate and encountered
a silver object suspended above trees, with four or five small
beings underneath it, collecting samples with tweezers and
putting them into what looked like jam jars. He got to within 20
feet from the object when the beings saw him and they got back
into their saucer, which went straight up and then took off at
great speed in the usual manner.

The main part of his talk concerned the Burmarsh incident of 8
March 1997 and its apparently endless ramifications. This case
concerns a UFO allegedly seen near the residence of the then
Home Secretary, Michael Howard, and the incident generated a
great deal of publicity at the time. One of the lines of
investigation pursued by UFOMEK was the usual one of writing
vexatious letters to the Ministry of Defence, and getting the
inevitable standard replies. This was accompanied by the usual
paranoid stuff, notably a fake letter and a recorded telephone
call. The fake letter, sent to Chris Rolfe, purported to be
written by a Wing Commander A.W. Ward of the RAF, and warned him
to cease his investigations into the Burmarsh incident.
Eventually UFOMEK established that this officer really existed
and managed to contact him. He wrote to Rolfe denying having
written the letter, but his signature was remarkably similar to
that on the fake letter. Make of that what you will.

On 9 February 1999, Anderson received by mail a tape cassette,
which he found to be a recording of a telephone conversation he
had had with Chris Rolfe in January 1998, concerning the
Burmarsh incident. He played part of the recording to us, and it
was obvious that it had not been made from a telephone tap, but
had obviously been made in the room where Anderson was making
the call. He admitted that BT investigators found no evidence of
a telephone tap. He called in an independent investigator
(unnamed), who suggested that the conversation had been recorded
from outside his house using a laser directional microphone.
This is possible, of course, but a simpler explanation would be
that he had his recorder running when he made the call, and the
tape somehow got into the hands of one of his associates, who
then decided to use it to hoax him. Who knows?

UFOMEK is also excited about a piece of security video footage
which is said to show a triangular UFO moving very slowly over
the Thames at Gravesend. According to the report published by
UFOMEK, it has been viewed by "independent analysts and experts
in aircraft recognition have viewed the footage... video experts
[unnamed] have said that it is a solid object . . ." The video
was shown to us. It was of rather poor quality, but to me the
object looked remarkably like a fractostratus cloud.

Just as Father Christmas appears in every big store in December,
Jenny Randles appears at almost every UFO conference (although
there are no reliable reports of her having been seen at more
than one conference at the same time). Jenny's talk was a
minutely detailed account of the investigations into the
notorious Peter Day film of January 1973, which concluded that
the moving light on the film was burning fuel ejected by an
F-111 jet which was in trouble and which later crashed.

During lunch time Tim Matthews discussed, for those who had
given up eating for Lent, some of the material from his book
concerning military aircraft mistaken for UFOs.

The real highlights of the conference were the lectures by Dr
David Clarke and Andy Roberts. Dr Clarke described the Howden
Moor incident of 1997 when police and rescue teams spent about
=9C50,000 of public money searching for a non-existent crashed
aircraft, and all because the Ministry of Defence refused to
admit that one of their aircraft had illegally broken the sound
barrier while flying at a low altitude over the area. He pointed
out that the case never involved any suggestion of UFO activity
until some dubious characters started spreading fantastic and
unfounded rumours. However, there were a few loose ends,
including a low flying light aircraft, which was videotaped.
Attempts to identify this aircraft were unsuccessful.

Andy Roberts stunned the few believers in the audience with his
neat demolition job on the Berwyn Mountain case of 1974, which
some of the nuttier (or more mercenary) ufologists have been
touting as the British Roswell. Some ufologists are not pleased
with his investigations; he said that Nick Redfern accused him
of being a disinformation agent.

Roberts demonstrated how the story had developed from the
misinterpretation of real events on the night in question. At
8.30 p.m. on the evening of 23 January 1974 there was a loud
explosion, accompanying an earth tremor, centred in the Bala
area. Also on that evening, at least three bright meteors were
seen, including a particularly spectacular one at 9.30 p.m.

Much is made by sensationalists of the story of the nurse who
drove up into the mountains thinking there might have been a
plane crash and that maybe she could help. Roberts found that
this story was true, except for the bit about her being turned
back by soldiers. She had encountered no one on the mountain.
The persistent story about people being turned away from the
mountain probably arose from confusion with an incident in 1982
when an RAF plane crashed in the area and the crash site was
sealed off until the wreckage was cleared up.

The strange lights seen by the nurse were not from a grounded
UFO, but were caused by a confrontation between police officers
with torches and poachers using powerful lights attached to
their car. Roberts had carefully checked this using maps and
official documents. An RAF Mountain Rescue team checked the area
the day after the incident and found nothing unusual. Let us
fervently hope that we will hear no more nonsense about the
Berwyn Mountain incident.

The conference ended with an informal session in which members
of the audience were invited to air their views. The first
speaker was a man with a Liverpool accent and a voice too loud
even for your deaf old Editor. He deplored scepticism and
declared that all the more fantastic UFO theories were true. As
he rambled on, there was much consulting of watches as people
decided it was time to head for the car park or railway station.



BOOK REVIEWS

Alien Investigator: The Case Files of Britain's Leading UFO
Detective Tony Dodd, Headline, London, 1999. =A316.99

It all began on a night in January 1978, when Sergeant Tony Dodd
of the North Yorkshire Police had a close encounter with a UFO
when driving across the moors with a colleague. When he
eventually retired from the police force, Dodd began to devote
himself full time to UFO research. He claims to use his police
experience "to tackle the subject in a hard-headed, disciplined
manner". Presumably this means not believing everything that one
would like to believe and being able to distinguish between
facts and fantasies, as well as demanding sound evidence to back
up extraordinary claims.

It is all too obvious, though, that if Dodd had conducted his
police work in the same way that he pursues his UFO research,
his career would have not lasted long. He believes that people
who have close encounters are specially chosen and that the
aliens communicate with him telepathically. These are the good
aliens, of course. There are also the bad aliens who mutilate
animals. In fact, there are several different lots of aliens
buzzing around the Earth, and Dodd obviously has a hard time
trying to sort out which lot is which.

Being so active in ferreting out UFO secrets, Dodd is plagued by
the activities of secret agents who tap his telephone, follow
him around, and generally hassle him. One would think that an
experienced police officer would have ways of dealing with this
sort of treatment, but Dodd never takes the obvious actions. For
example, he is followed around by a car and uses his knowledge
of the local roads to get on its tail. This is where he can get
its registration number and have it checked out. But he makes no
mention of attempting to identify its owner. At a UFO conference
in Tucson, Arizona, he was approached by "two dark-suited men"
who told him they were from the US government, and proceeded to
warn him about the line of research he was pursuing. Strangely,
he makes no mention of asking for evidence of their authority to
question him.

Perhaps the most amusing stories concern Dodd's interest in
alleged UFO incidents in Iceland. His contacts there gave his
phone number to Icelandic trawlermen who took to ringing him up
and telling him fantastic stories about UFOs going in and out of
the sea. Dodd apparently takes all these reports at face value,
apparently blind to the probability that they are pulling his
leg.

I could write a much longer review of this book, but I am sure
that there are other British ufologists busily dissecting it. I
eagerly await their comments.

UFO Crash Landing? Friend or Foe? Jenny Randles, Blandford,
London, 1998. =A39.99

By her own confession Jenny Randles says she is obsessed by the
Rendlesham Forest mystery. What were UFOs and aliens doing there
during the Christmas of 1980? Has there been a cover-up? What is
being covered up? Who is telling the truth?

Like most aspects of ufology, a fog of confusion surrounds this
case. Randles gives most credence to the sightings on the
evening of 25 December and early morning of 26 December. Over
the same period Cosmos 749 and 1226 re-entered our atmosphere,
and were viewed throughout Britain. From this Randles speculates
that a project named Cobra Mist, based at Orford Ness, had used
some form of electrical beam energy weapon to shoot at these
satellites.

Another possibility is that a Soviet satellite's nuclear motor
might have been recovered at Rendlesham, or that a secret USAF
plane had crash landed. Then again it could have been an
extraterrestrial visitor, or some form of natural phenomenon.
Randles likes to keep her options open and her conclusions as
slippery as a tin of grease!

Such events would necessitate a cover-up, but if one was needed
why would USAF officers blab needlessly to personnel at RAF
Watton about a UFO landing? More to the point, why did "Steve
Roberts" tell Brenda Butler, only a week after the events, that
aliens had communicated with USAF personnel through sign
language, and were protected by armed guards whilst they
repaired their craft? This account is similar to Larry Warren's,
yet his testimony is disputed by those who were in Rendlesham
Forest at the time in question. Furthermore, Steve Roberts's
post on the base was later found to be connected with public
affairs.

The actual evidence itself is not that great either. There is
Halt's memo that mentions "unexplained lights", the infamous
tape recording made during the sightings (which even Randles
notes, compares well with sightings of the Orford Ness
lighthouse beams), landing marks in the ground and
radioactivity. Unfortunately, the site itself was quickly
destroyed and its exact location is so confused that Randles
wonders if a false landing site was created to put people off
the scent. No substantial documentary evidence has been
discovered, and the testimony of the eyewitnesses is
contradictory or just plain ludicrous.

This whole saga is mainly a great laugh at the gullibility of
ufologists running around chasing their own tails/tales. In
comparison Roswell seems like a sensible case to believe in.

Nigel Watson



LETTERS

The pieces in Supplement No. 12 raise some interesting points.
Martin Kottmeyer's points out the role of Betty Hill's fears of
radiation in the construction of her dream narratives. There
were very good reasons why radiation poisoning would have been
on Betty's (and many other people's) mind at that time. On 1
September 1961 the Soviet Union had ended its nuclear testing
moratorium and exploded a giant 50+ megaton nuclear bomb, with
further tests on the 4th and 5th, and on the 16th the US
retaliated by resuming its nuclear testing. Radiation was in the
air that weekend in more ways than one. Is Jerry Clark really as
naive as his letter suggests, or is this just a rhetorical
device to initiate a Socratic dialogue with Magonians? Sorry
Jerry, but the problems of misperception have nothing to do with
the witnesses being American, but everything to do with them
being being humans and not Vulcans. Magonia's views on this
topic are based on studies of the perceptual processes by real
scientists rather than populist political correctness. Modern
theories of perception stress that it is much more a creative
than a recording act (see for example the new book by Donald
Hoffman, Visual Intelligence: How we create what we see, Norton,
1998, or the works of Richard Gregory). Far from being some sort
of pathology, these misperceptions may be giving us some
important clues as to how the human perceptual processes work.
That being the case, it doesn't seem so surprising that many
cases of "powerful searchlights" turn out to be accounts of
bright stars and planets.

David Hufford's point was that the hag stories were based on
real experiences of aware sleep paralysis episodes, and were not
just a literary tradition. He was not, I think, arguing that the
hags were really beings in external space. It's a moot point
whether the hag experience is entirely hallucinatory or, as
Ronald Siegel suggested, on analysing his own hag experience,
constructed from ambiguous sensory stimuli (the sound of his own
blood, shadows, etc.). Most, but by no means all, UFO stories
are based on real experiences, but that doesn't mean that folk
interpretations of these experiences in terms of flying saucers
or airships are correct.

With these problems of perception, detailed scientific studies
of "persistent ufological objects" are very important. Perhaps,
therefore, Jerry could give us the precise bibliographic
references to the articles in mainstream, peer reviewed,
scientific journals where the Jet Propulsion Laboratory report
on the video tape he mentions can be found, and to the
subsequent correspondence. To help us poor, ignorant Brits,
maybe he could fill us in on exactly what the Jet Propulsion
Laboratory does, what particular aspects of its day-to-day,
bread-and-butter work give it particular expertise in analysing
video recordings of lights in the sky, who exactly at the JPL
undertook this research, and on contract from whom, what exactly
his or her particular expertise in this field was; whether the
work was done by the JPL as a corporate body, or by one or more
employees as a personal project, what the results of any other
analyses were, etc., etc. No doubt asking questions like that is
a good way for me to end up being branded a trouble maker or
even Torquemada.

It is sad to see Jerry reduced to this kind of ranting and arm
waving (enlivened, no doubt, with the occasional piece of
grammatical nit picking) instead of reasoned argument. Dare one
suggest that this is because Jerry knows he has lost it, and it
is that amalgam of intellectual laziness and superstition which
seeks explanations of scientific puzzles in terms of non-human
intelligences of ill-defined natures and powers (whether ET or
boggart matters not a jot) which actually stands rightfully
accused of "explaining everything" and therefore nothing.

Of course, in the interest of fairness and balance, it is
equally dismaying to see Philip Klass relying on a phone
conversation years ago with someone whose name he can't remember
as his evidence for the light aircraft theory. Gossip isn't
evidence.

Peter Rogerson, Manchester

Reference Jerome Clark's letter (in your February issue) about
the "Hudson Valley UFOs" which involved many night-time reports
of a giant boomerang-shaped UFO observed in 1983-84. Clark
seemingly rejects the idea that most if not all of these UFO
reports were triggered by half a dozen daredevil private pilots
flying in close formation.

The September/October 1983 issue of Clark's own International
UFO Reporter (IUR) published an article by Philip Imbrogno and
two other investigators which stated: "Although a part of the
mystery has been solved . . . in some cases a group of pilots
were apparently deliberately conducting close flight formations
in small planes . . . there is as yet no explanation for the
slow moving, silent, and at times hovering "Boomerang" . . . On
July 14, I staked out the area of the Stormville [NY] airport
and verified that some of the [UFO] reports were the result of
these planes flying in formation." This was an embarrassing
admission for Imbrogno whose article in the previous issue of
IUR suggested that there was no possible prosaic explanation for
the boomerang UFO reports. Several months later an article in
the Poughkeepsie Journal quoted Imbrogno as saying: "The
aircraft theory explains perhaps 75 percent, but it does not
rule out a great deal of the remaining reports."

By that time, Imbrogno had decided to write a book about the
Hudson Valley boomerang UFOs, in partnership with Dr J. Allen
Hynek, then head of the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS). In the
November/December 1984 issue of IUR, Hynek wrote an editorial
which criticised a recent issue of Discover magazine for its
report on its on-site investigation which indicated the Hudson
Valley reports were generated by the daredevil pilots. In
Hynek's editorial he posed the question: "Can it be established
[i.e., proven] that all of the UFO sightings are due to
slap-happy pilots?"

No it can't. But consider the alternative - that the ETs in some
distant galaxy decided to design and build a new type of
spacecraft, shaped like a giant boomerang. And they chose to
send it to the Hudson Valley in 1983 where daredevil private
pilots were then flying in a boomerang-type formation to create
bogus UFO reports. If any of the boomerang-shaped UFOs were ET
craft, how very strange that they repeatedly returned to the
Hudson Valley area where the pilot-hoaxers were operating and
did not visit other areas of the US, or other countries. (One
possible explanation is that ETs also were fooled by the
daredevil pilots and thought their boomerang was another ET
craft.)

Clark should know that eyewitness reports of
lights-in-the-night-sky type UFOs are often inaccurate. For
example, when CUFOS's chief investigator Allan Hendry
investigated 1,024 such UFO reports submitted to CUFOS in the
mid-1970s, all of them turned out to have prosaic explanations,
as Hendry reported in his book, The UFO Handbook.

As for the reports that the boomerang UFO seemed to hover, if
Clark will stand in the small park in front of our Condo complex
and watch airliners approaching to land at nearby Reagan
National Airport at night, he will be able to swear under oath
that the airliners appeared to hover for 5-10 seconds.

Philip J. Klass, Washington, D.C.



MAGONIA Monthly Supplement is available on the Magonia web site,
with printed copies sent to the favoured few. Please send all
articles, letters, etc. direct to the Editor: John Harney, 27
Enid Wood House, High Street, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1LN UK



ETH Bulletin / MMS index




Mark Pilkington

"A heathen perhaps, but not, I hope, an unenlightened one."
Lord Summerisle
------------------------------------------------
Magonia Online

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 5

                 Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *** 4-2-99

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:41:16 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:29:32 -0400
Subject: Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News ***  4-2-99


In a message dated 4/5/99 10:50:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
updates@globalserve.net writes:

>Errol, I want to personally thank you for all the time and hard
>work you put into keeping this list in great shape as a vital
>tool of communication in Ufology.

>Josh Goldstein

Me too, Errol... you are a mensch! Even Gesundt says so and
he hates _everybody_! Thank you for a yoeman job.

Jim Mortellaro







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   Apr > Apr 5

                             Re: UFO*BC Updates

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:43:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:31:31 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO*BC Updates


>Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 03:58:05 -0800
>From: Yourname [Josh Goldstein] <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO*BC Updates

>Fellow Updates subscribers.

<snip>

>Stephen Greer claims to have 200 witnesses, many former military
>with security clearances. He has not gotten anywhere with his
>Congressional and Executive branch briefings. Bill McDonald did
>not get far with Congress either. I feel Steven Greer should
>hold a press briefing with all his witnesses present to tell
>their stories, name names and sources of further evidence.
>Perhaps Sara McClendon could help set it up. As far as I know,
>witnesses from Roswell and other cases who took security oaths
>have not been prosecuted for talking about their UFO
>experiences. Dr. Greer is not getting anywhere with attempts to
>obtain immunity for his witnesses. He feels the strength is
>bringing these people out together (strength and validity in
>numbers) rather than one by one. I say go for it and stop
>waiting for the government to do anything. While many of us have
>skeptical opinions of CSETI, I hope Dr. Greer is legitimate
>regarding these witnesses. Let's try to get them public as a
>group and stand behind their right to relate experiences that
>may have a great bearing on all of us.

>Josh Goldstein

Josh-

None of the Roswell witnesses have been able to provide any
tangible proof that their allegations are accurate, so there
hasn't been anything to prosecute them for, so I wouldn't
necessarily use that as a factor to prove that there is no
danger to potential witnesses who come forward to disclose what
may be secrets involving National security.

That would most likely be true for the "witnesses" that Dr.
Greer has identified, in that they would also have to prove the
validity of their claims.

IMO, if Dr. Greer had found the "Holy Grail" of ufology through
his interviews with these "witnesses", we would be dealing with
that information rather than the issue of granting immunity from
prosecution. I don't doubt that the witnesses are legitimate,
but hope that they have more to offer than annecdotal
information.

Steve






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   Apr > Apr 5

                           Re: Kraus vs. Friedman

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:22:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 14:55:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Kraus vs. Friedman


>>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:53:15 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

><snip>

>>This last point gets to the heart of the matter. The general
>>issue of alien visitation is so a prior ludicrous, on the basis
>>of any sound physical reasoning, that any claim that it has
>>actually happened would have to meet the strongest skepticism
>>and scrutiny.

There's no way of knowing how likely alien visits are, because
we don't have any data.

By data, I mean hard facts. If I'm curious to know how likely I
am to run into someone from Bulgaria, I can start with some
facts. Bulgarians do visit the United States. There are bound to
be some in the Bulgarian embassy in Washington, and the
Bulgarian mission to the UN in New York, so my chances of
meeting one are greater in those cities, and presumably smaller
in Akron, Ohio. So if I met one in Akron I might be surprised,
and much less surprised in Washington or New York. But I do know
that meeting a Bulgarian in the United States is entirely
possible.

What are the chances of encountering aliens here on earth? We
don't have a clue. We don't know how many intelligent races
there are in the galaxy, or, in fact, if there are any at all.
If they do exist, we don't know if they travel from star to
star. If there's a concentration of them, but very distant from
us, maybe they're less likely to come here. But if there are
spacefaring aliens on a planet of Alpha Centauri, just four
light years away, then they might well visit here, even if they
face the same limitations on interstellar travel that we face,
at our present level of technology.

Since we don't know any of this -- since we have no data at all
about alien races -- then we can't estimate the probability of
alien visits. Anyone who tries it is simply guessing.

And since we can't know what scientific advantages we might make
in the next hundred, thousand, million, or billion years, we're
in no position to make assumptions about what technology aliens
might have. There might, for all we know, be scientific paradigms
that go beyond Einstein, just as Einstein went beyond Isaac
Newton. Advanced races might find interstellar travel much easier
than we think it is. Or they might not -- but there's no way we
can know.

Greg Sandow








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   Apr > Apr 5

               UFOs Reported - Unionville, Michigan - 03-16-99

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 05:59:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:07:19 -0400
Subject: UFOs Reported - Unionville, Michigan - 03-16-99


The following article is courtesy of Mr. Jeffrey S. Westover, an
investigator from Michigan. The article mentions several recent
sightings near Unionville, Michigan on March 16.

On March 11 and 14th, two sightings were reported from Clyde and
Fremont, Ohio, one of which was sighted by a deputy who was
dispatched to the scene. I opened my map and was slightly
curious about a near- straight line that could be drawn from
Unionville, Michigan to Fremont, Ohio with the locations of
Milan, Michigan and Toledo, Ohio -where other sightings were
reported from- situated in-between. Details of Toledo and Milan
remain elusive. There were some indications that UFO sightings
were reported near these two locations around this same
time-frame, but these vague reports are without verification.

        For info on this see -
        http://home.fuse.net/ufo/fremontupdate.htm

Thanks much to Jeff Westover for passing along the following
message:

-------------------

Jeffrey S. Westover wrote:

A front page news story concerning area UFO sightings ran this
past Wednesday (March 31) in the Marlette (Michigan) Leader and
Huron Daily Tribune (Bad Axe, MI) newspapers.

The DeBoever/Unionville sighting was the topic of a WNEM TV-5
(CBS affiliate from Saginaw, MI) news story covered by Jay
Brandow.  The following week, on Friday March 26, WEYI TV-25
(NBC affiliate from Clio, MI) also covered local UFO sightings
in their local newscast.  The reporter allegedly had her own
sighting just before the cameras rolled.  I did not watch the
TV-25 broadcast but am led to believe that they reported a
completely different sighting in the Bay City/Midland area.

Below is the transcripted news story as appeared in the 3/31
Marlette Leader Newspaper.

        UNUSUAL SIGHTINGS IN THE SKY PEAK INTEREST IN THE THUMB
        The Marlette Leader
        March 31, 1999

        By Stacy Langley (Huron Daily Tribune-Bad Axe, MI)

Unusual sightings have been the talk of town in Unionville
(Michigan) and several surrounding communities as residents
compare stories and probe officials about the weird light
spotted in the skies last week.

The past few years, sightings of unidentified objects in the sky
have been quite common and without much explanation.

Adiel DeBoever of Unionville said he was the first person to
call Tuscola County Central Dispatch around 8:30 p.m. March 16
just after he spotted the lights in the sky hovering over his
home.

DeBoever said this is the first time he's seen lights like this.
He said they were bright orange in color and looked to be
shining from the inside of an object.

"The lights weren't like a spotlight shinning down from the sky,
but they were very noticeable", he said.

The sighting by DeBoever was just one of five reported that
night by area residents who say they saw the unidentified flying
object(s). DeBoever, who lives on Cottage Drive near Unionville,
says the lights would just blink out of sight and then come back
on, but the object seemed to remain in the same place the whole
time.

"The lights were off and then came back on, it was eerie", he
said.

DeBoever recalls that as far as distance, the light probably
were half a mile away to the east, just above the Department of
Natural Resources wetlands when he saw them.

"They spanned about the entire length of a football field. There
were two sets of light clusters which were bright orange.  The
larger one could have been further away", he said.  "When my
nephew came out of the house I said 'Eddie, there's a UFO in the
sky' just joking and then the light blinked out, but came on
this time.

"It appeared to separate into six other lights and they all
moved and stopped in the shape of a large triangle object which
then appeared to rotate on its axis."

Officials at the Tuscola County Central Dispatch say they have
no explanation for what the lights were that night, but say that
DeBoever wasn't alone in the sightings.

Shortly after DeBoever's call, Central Dispatch reports a call
came in at 8:57 p.m. from a Juanita Township resident who
reported seeing orange lights in the sky.

Just two minutes later, a Novesta Township woman called with a
similar sighting.  Callers from Fremont Township and the
Fairgrove area followed.  The caller described seeing orange
lights in the shape of a football field, while the Fairgrove
residents reported seeing a Z-shaped formation in the sky.

Officials from Selfridge Air National Guard Base said they
couldn't offer any explanation about the lights in the sky, and
no sightings were reported to the base.

End of article


Jeffrey S. Westover comments:

"I spoke with TV-5 news reporter Jay Brandow before this
sighting was published in the Marlette Leader and following the
TV-5 broadcast. Brandow told me that Selfridge had sent two
F-16's into the area."





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   Apr > Apr 5

                    Re: 'United States Space Foundation'?

From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 11:52:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:10:34 -0400
Subject: Re: 'United States Space Foundation'?


>Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 11:29:03 +0100
>Subject: 'United States Space Foundation'?
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Anybody know what the United States Space Foundation is?

>Forwarded from net

Check out -- http://www.ussf.org/about.html



--
*****************************************************************
"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government?
When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory.
The federal government is our servant, not our master!"

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep
and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
against tyranny in government."

--- Thomas Jefferson
*****************************************************************






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   Apr > Apr 5

                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 14

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 20:41:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:14:42 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 14

    UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 4, Number 14
April 5, 1999
Editor: Joseph Trainor

TORONTO UFO BACK AGAIN

     The Toronto UFO made two more appearances
last week near Canada's largest city.
     On Sunday, March 28, 1999, at about 8 p.m.,
Aaron W. "was out with a friend in Jack Darling Park
in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada when we saw a
glowing orb over the Lakeview Generating Station"
located two kilometers from the Toronto city limits.
     "It was a bright, gold-coloured light that hovered
for five minutes, then split into five separate lights and
disappeared below the horizon," Aaron reported.
     The following evening, Monday, March 29, 1999,
at 8:45 p.m., Aaron "was out again at Lake Ontario on
a beach in Rattray Marsh.  I looked over my head to the
northwest, and I saw a bright red light streak across the
sky.  When I pointed it out to three other witnesses,
it became very, very dim, but they did see it for
approximately two seconds.  The witnesses lost sight
of it, but I continued to watch for ten seconds as it
danced across the sky."  (Email Interview)

MORE UFO SIGHTINGS ARE
REPORTED IN ONTARIO

     UFOs were reported throughout the month of
March 1999 in Canada's Ontario province, with many
sightings around Sudbury and Elliot Lake.
     On Wednesday, March 14, 1999, at 3:40 p.m., a
motorist driving from Elliot Lake (population 14,089),
a city 117 miles (187 kilometers) west of Sudbury,
to Provincial Highway 17 "reported seeing a cone-shaped
object moving across the sky from west to east.  The
front end was squared off.  There was no vapour trail
behind it, and it was as white as a cloud."
     On Friday, March 12, 1999, at 10 p.m., a boy living
in Sudbury (population 92,884), a city on Highway 69
approximately 260 miles (410 kilometers) north of Toronto,
"was trying to get to sleep when he looked out his bedroom
window and saw a triangular object in the night sky.  It had
three colored lights--one at each corner.  One light was red
and the other two were white.  He also noticed a fourth
light in the center of the craft--a smaller red light which was
moving around in a circular pattern.  He said the triangular
craft was about as big as an aspirin (held) at arm's length."
     On Saturday, March 13, 1999, at 1:05 a.m., a man in
Garson, Ont. "saw a big, round object moving slowly across
the sky in a northwesterly direction.  He said it blinked
four times before disappearing and described it as being
'lime green in colour, oval-shaped and as large as a
garbage can cover held at a distance of 15 feet.'"
     On Monday, March 15, 1999, at around 3 p.m., two men
ice-fishing on Dunlop Lake, near Elliot Lake, Ont., "saw a
glare moving across the sky."  They described the UFO as
"the object was a lot bigger than a plane" and "it was a
silver bullet-type thing."  The witnesses "said it flew above
the trees about three or four miles away and then just
disappeared.  Both the top and the lower halves were
reflecting sunlight, he said, but the middle section was
blurry."
     On Saturday, March 20, 1999, at around 3 a.m., two
women driving east on Highway 17 from Sault Sainte
Marie, Ont. "saw what looked like a bright star in the
sky.  Then it suddenly came down at tremendous speed
and flew past their car.  The witness, who was in the
passenger seat, said that as the large ball of light flew
past the car, sparks were shooting off from end to end.
She looked back through the rear window of the car to
see the object, and it stopped and hovered above the
road."
     On Monday, March 29, 1999, at 11:15 p.m., the
same Sudbury boy who saw the UFO on March 12,
told MUFON that he "saw a similar object racing across
the southern sky."  (Many thanks to MUFON Ontario,
Sudbury Section, and Errol Bruce-Knapp for these reports.)

STRANGE "TREE CIRCLES"
STUDIED IN CANADA

     The presence of over 2,000 mysterious "tree circles"
or "forest rings" in northern Ontario and northwestern
Quebec has researchers in Canada puzzled.
     The "forest rings" were found in boreal forests
ranging from Nipigon, Ont. (population 2,430), just
north of Lake Superior, to Matagami, Quebec
(population 2,467), a small city on Provincial Highway
109 about 120 miles (192 kilometers) north of Ottawa,
the national capital.
     The rings were discovered by Dr. Jean Veillette,
a geomorphologist with the Geological Survey of Canada
in Ottawa,
     According to the National Post, "Dr. Veillette first
became intrigued by the rings in the early 1980s when
he noticed them on several photos he was seeing from a
mapping project in Quebec's Alitisi region.  The light
colour of the rings results from sparse vegetation growth,
which contrasts with the dense tree cover within and
around the rings."
     "'I researched them as I went along,' he says, 'and
noticed there were more rings as I moved north.'"
     "Since then he has looked at 38,000 air photos and
recorded more than 2,000 of the rings, which seem to
be concentrated in an arc north of Lake Nipigon in
Ontario to Matagami, Que.  There is also an isolated
cluster on Anticosti Island at the mouth of the St.
Lawrence River."
     The rings are perfectly round, ranging from 'only'
30 metres to two kilometers across...They are found
typically in areas of carbonate-rich soil and/or bedrock.
located in forest regions of black spruce, tamarack
and pine, anchored in moist peaty ground."
     "Theories of how the rings were formed have emerged
from every scientific and not-so-scientific source.
Ufologists  claim an extraterrestrial influence; astronomers
suggest meteor strikes; prospectors claim they signal
diamond-bearing kimberlites," a blue, igneous rock found
in the Laurentian Shield deposits.  (See the National Post
for March 16, 1999.  Many thanks to Paul Anderson of
Circles Phenomenon Research-Canada for the article and
the background information on the forest rings.)

GREEN FIREBALLS DAZZLE
VIEWERS IN IRELAND

     Mysterious green fireballs were seen twice over
Ireland the night of Saturday, March 6, 1999.
     That night, at 11:30 p.m., Edel Chadwich "was
driving across the bog (ostensibly a road--Edel)
between Borrisokane, County Tipperary, and
Cloghan, County Offaly," about 135 kilometers
(81 miles) southwest of Dublin, the national capital.
     "Anyone who knows this road knows that it is
unrelieved flat bog," Chadwick reported, "I saw what
I perceived to be a meteorological phenomenon.
It was a very clear dry night, cold.  I saw what looked
like a very large shooting star, comet-type thing, about
ten times larger than the (Hale-Bopp) comet that was
visible last year.  It moved through the sky extremely
quickly but not from a very big distance.  It was a very
vivid green.  It hovered for a second or two and vanished."
     Forty minutes earlier, at 10:50 p.m., David Moore
of Astronomy Ireland, editor of Astronomy and Space
magazine, was making telescope observations on
Djouce Mountain (727 meters or 2,385 feet) in County
Wicklow, about 160 kilometers (100 miles) east of
Cloghan when he spotted a similar green fireball.
     "There was a brilliant fireball on Saturday night,
March 6," Moore informed Dave Walsh, editor of
Blather, the Irish online newsletter of Paranormal
Provocateurism.  "I saw the ground light up myself
from Djouce Mountain when we were using my
telescope.  It happened to the north."
     Noting the time discrepancy, Walsh wrote,
"Has someone made a mistake, or were there 'two'
large fireballs over Ireland that night?"  (See Blather
for March 31, 1999.  Many thanks to Dave Walsh
for letting UFO Roundup use this item.)

UFO FLAP CONTINUES IN
SOUTHERN BRAZIL

     Two more UFO incidents took place in the
state of Sao Paulo in southern Brazil last week.
     On Tuesday, March 16, 1999, around 10 p.m.,
a glowing UFO appeared over the Residential
Sete Quedas apartment complex in Itu, located
100 kilometers (60 miles) west of the industrial
city of Sao Paulo.  The hovering UFO was
videotaped by one of the witnesses.
     At the apartment complex, located in the
Itaim section of the city, "Gabriel de Carvalho Filho
watched again with his wife an aerial ballet starring
the object."
     "The Folha da Cidade reporter, Eduardo Luiz
Santion, videotaped the object and watched for 15
minutes with the other witnesses."
     "Minna Luise de Paula, also a resident of
Sete Quedas, who saw the 'glow' of light on Tuesday,
said the shape and size of the light reject the
possibility that it was stars or a balloon."
     "Francisco Bento Feitosa, who works at Sete
Quedas, said he nearly lost his cool when he saw the
light.  He did not believe in UFOs, but his faith was
shaken badly Tuesday night."
     Residents of the hillside section of Itu also saw
the UFO.  "Clarice Fukuda was one of these, and
through her window, noticed the light in the direction
of the Gaplanas Building."  (See the newspaper
Folha da Cidade for February 20, 1999.  Muito
obrigado a Thiago Ticchetti por eso caso.)
     On Sunday, March 21, 1999, around 12:30 a.m.,
Denise Ribeiro "was with my husband in the backyard
of our house" in Butantam, a suburb of Sao Paulo,
"because the night was very, very hot.  Around 12:30,
my son called our attention to a red light that he
was seeing.  At the first moment, I thought it was the
planet Mars.  It was very visible this night.  But I
noticed that this light was a little bit bigger than the
planet."
     "Looking more closely, I saw a point formed by
four red lights, in a cross shape.  The lights did not
blink.  They were very clear...The 'object' was stopped,
apparently at a very high altitude.  So, after ten minutes
at a dead stop, the 'object' started to go to the west
very slowly, a straight line at a constant velocity.  Two
of the four lights turned off, (the UFO) made a turn and
started to rotate on its own axis.  Again it began to
move but more in a descending motion and stopped at
an angle of 45 degrees to the horizon.  Then it went
away to the west."  (Muito obrigado a Sociedade de
Estudos Extraterrestres, SOCEX, por eso caso.)

UFO RATTLES A HOUSE IN
LAVERNE, CALIFORNIA

     On Monday, August 29, 1999, at 4 a.m., Ryan H. was
sound asleep in his second-floor bedroom at the family
home in LaVerne, California (population 30,897), a suburb
20 miles (32 kilometers) east of Los Angeles.
     Suddenly, Ryan awoke to find "the whole room shaking
and rattling, as though a medium-sized earthquake was
in progress.  However, he suddenly understood that
something very strange and different was happening,"
in that "the source of the shaking seemed to be overhead
as well as from east to west."
     Thinking a large animal might have leaped from a
nearby tree onto the rooftop, Ryan went to the bedroom
window "and was very startled to see a large, red, ball-
shaped object, that was glowing very brightly orange,
high in the sky.  He went over to another window for a
better view and saw that the object was moving rapidly
in a westerly direction.  It also stopped and hovered
noiselessly."
     After watching for 30 seconds, Ryan ran to an
adjacent bedroom and awakened one of his brothers.
The two men, both in their twenties, "stepped out onto a
second-story balcony and watched the orange glowing
ball for approximately 10 minutes."
     As the UFO began to move again, Ryan waved his
flashlight at the object, "and the bright orange object
stopped and hovered again.  Ryan then went to wake
his other brother and their parents."
     "Then, as the whole family watched, the object
abruptly began to move again, this time rapidly in a
southerly direction.  Then it suddenly stopped to hover
again, and Ryan and his brothers saw a bunch of
smaller orange lights seem to drop earthward from the
underside of the large object."
     Following that maneuver, the orange UFO "pulled
out and disappeared."
     Moments later, the family caught sight of another
and startlingly different UFO.  "He described it as a large,
dull gray, cube-shaped object with all of its corners
and edges rounded off.  He said the object's color made
it very hard to see in the semi-cloudy, pre-dawn sky.
All three of the brothers watched as it floated towards
the horizon."  (Many thanks to Tim Hagemeister of
NACOMM for this report.)

ANOTHER UFO SIGHTED
OVER PHILLY SUBURB

     On Tuesday, March 30, 1999, a couple in
the northwestern section of Philadelphia spotted
a UFO.
     The witness, a woman, was with her friend, a
male doctor, when she saw the strange object.
     "I told him, 'Look up there at 11 o'clock high.
Look at those lights.'"
     "It's just a plane,' he said."
     "I said, "No, it's not.  When have you ever seen
lights blinking in a circular motion?  It's a UFO!"
     "He then said, 'Well, it could be a helicopter.'"
     "Then I told him to look to the right of the object.
'That's a helicopter!'"
     "'Well, whatever it is, it's moving fast,' he said."
     It was 8:30 p.m., the witness said, "And we were
coming back from supper.  I have a habit of looking
up at the sky from this intersection.  It was heading
southwest from King of Prussia (population 18,406)"
on Route 202 about 20 miles (32 kilometers) from
Philadelphia "to the airport.  We lost sight of it due to trees.
We weren't able to make out a shape, but the lights
appeared to be on the bottom of the craft, one white
and one red.  They were blinking on and off generally
in a circular motion."
     This was the second UFO sighting near King of
Prussia, Pa. during the past two weeks.  (Many
thanks of J.R. Gillis of MUFON for this report.)
(Editor's Comment:  The UFO's flight path took it
very close to Wissahickon Avenue in Philadelphia's
Fairmount Park.  Wissahickon Avenue has a long
mystical history.  Originially a powwow site for the
Lenni Lenape (Delaware Indians), the area was
settled by Johannes Kelpius in 1694.  Kelpius was
a disciple of the Rosicrucian adept Knorr von
Rosenroth.  The group was into all kinds of magickal
doings.  Kelpius finally became a hermit and moved
into a cave in what is now Fairmount Park.  He died
there in 1708.  His group eventually became known
as the Ephrata Moravian Brethren.  Two of its leaders,
Conrad Beissel and Michael Wohlfarth, befriended
a young Benjamin Franklin when he moved to
Philadelphia from Boston in 1725.)

UFO SPOTTED OVER
SOUTHAVEN, MISSISSIPPI

     Mississippi recorded its second UFO of the
month on Wednesday, March 31, 1999 in
Southaven (population 17,949), a town on
Highway 55 about seven miles (11 kilometers)
south of Memphis, Tennessee.
     At 6:45 p,am,, a Southaven man "reported seeing
an unusual flying object he describes as 'a Little Orb.'
The observer was outdoors at 6:45 standing in his
driveway.  The object was low on the horizon of the
northern sky and appeared to wobble."  (Many thanks
to J. Michael Long of Mississippi UFO for this
report.)

Y2K: NEW ZEALAND PLANS
FOR OPERATION ABACUS

     New Zealand joined the roster of NATO countries
planning to contain and control civil unrest caused
by the Year 2000 computer problem.  Other
countries with such contingency plans include
the USA, the UK, Canada, Australia and Israel.
     "Authorities in New Zealand are expected to call
for help from the military in the event of civil unrest
caused by Y2K.  In a closed-door session, officials
from 86 territories are meeting to discuss the
likelihood of failures and how the public will react.
All military units are to be on standby New Year's
Eve and have been warned not to grant holidays
at this time."  (See Y2K Newswire for April 2, 1999.)
     In Australia, QANTAS Airlines announced a
possible cutback in flight service due to Y2K,
according to a BBC report.
     "BBC reported that QANTAS airline warned that
Y2K could cause disruption of its service.  A spokesman
said, 'QANTAS planes will only fly if it is safe to do so.
Therefore, some contingency plans may reduce frequency
of flight" during the emergency.  (See Y2K Newswire for
April 2, 1999.)

     Remember the last Blue Moon in January?  We saw
two strange Fortean events during the period.  Your
editor wondered if the same thing would happen during
the March Blue Moon.  And, sure enough, it did.
Read on...

COYOTE CAPTURED BY COPS
IN NEW YORK CITY

     During January's Blue Moon, we had an out-of-
place Siberian tiger shot in New Jersey.  This time
around, it was a Western coyote that appeared
in New York City's Central Park.
     According to NYC Parks Commissioner Henry
Stern, the coyote "was spotted at 6 a.m. Saturday
(March 27, 1999) in Riverside Park at 149th Street,
he said."
     "On Tuesday night (March 30, 1999), cops saw
the animal on Central Park's West Drive near
80th Street and then again on Wednesday
(March 31, 1999) in the Hallett Bird Sanctuary at
the park's southeastern corner, said police Capt.
James O'Neill, commanding officer of the (NYPD)
Central Park precinct."
     "By yesterday morning (Thursday, April 1, 1999),
sightings had come in from all corners of the park,
including the Great Lawn, a maintenance yard at
79th Street, on the west side, and 96th Street, near
the East Drive."
     "Stern was briefing reporters at the Bethesda
Terrace near 72nd Street at about 11:30 a.m. when
word reached him that the coyote had been
trapped in the bird sanctuary."
     Officer Stephen Collins of the NYPD Emergency
Services Unit (ESU) took aim at the coyote with
a tranquilizer-dart rifle.
     "When the first two tranquilizer darts missed,
the coyote fled into the pond.  Bad move: its slow
dog paddle gave Collins an easy target."
     The coyote "swam to the other side and started
pacing north on the East Drive.   The mob followed
in hot pursuit--gathering tourists, joggers and
curious New Yorkers as it went--until the coyote
gave in to the drugs and collapsed in Memorial
Grove near 69th Street."
     "'It's my first coyote and hopefully my last.
They're too much work,' said Officer Stephen Collins,
who fired the dart that brought the howler down."
     "The coyote was taken to the Bronx Zoo, where
he was recovering last night."
     "'He's now going to be known as the Central
Park Coyote,' Stern said."  (See the New York Post
for April 2, 1999, "Coyote corralled in Central Park,"
page 9, and the New York Daily News for April 2,
1999, "Cops collar coyote--in Central Park," page 3)

WEIRD MASS ANIMAL DEATHS
REPORTED IN THE SUDAN

     A bizarre mass demise of fish and animals took
place in the Sudan during Blue Moon.
     Residents of Juba, a city on the upper Nile River
located 800 kilometers (500 miles) south of
Khartoum, the national capital, were stunned to
find thousands of fish and dozens of crocodiles
and hippopotami floating dead in the river.
     "Residents of Juba believe the river's pollution
is causing the deaths and refuse to use the water
or to eat any of the fish from the Nile."
     Residents also reported an unusual oily green
malodorous foam floating on the river, which they
believe originated in Uganda, a neighboring
African nation 140 kilometers (84 miles) to the
south.
     "An environmental official described the river
water as 'greenish and smelling badly of
decomposing animal bodies."
     "The local government on Tuesday (March 30,
1999) issued a statement saying that the water was
safe for human consumption."
(Editor's Comment:  During January's Blue Moon,
there was a strange mass demise of birds in
Bastrop, Louisiana.  See UFO Roundup, Volume 4,
Number 5.)

from the UFO Files...

1879: THE WEIRD CREATURE
           OF HUMMINGBIRD MINE

     Of all the strange incidents that have taken place in
Idaho, the mysterious deaths of Henry Ludlum and
Albert Humburg in 1879 certainly rank near the
top of the list.
     The incident took place in April 1879 in Sleight's
Canyon (now Paris Canyon--J.T.), a few miles west
of Paris, Idaho.  Humburg, an immigrant from Germany,
owned the mine but leased it out to the three bachelor
Ludlum brothers.
     Henry Ludlum told his brothers that he had heard
strange noises coming from behind the rock walls
while working in the shaft.  His brothers said it was
simply the ground settling.  When Henry insisted
that he had heard odd, faint shrieks, whistles and
metallic clanking noises, his brothers simply laughed
at him.  Incensed, Henry decided to obtain some
proof.  Here's how it all went down in the words of
Humburg's daughter, Mrs. Emma Hymas.
     "I will never forget that April morning when I was
just four.  There was still a lot of snow with a right
heavy crust on top.  Ludlum banged on our door and
said one of his brothers went down in the mine to
work and had not showed up.  They had called down
the mine shaft over and over again, but there was
no answer."
     "Father just left the breakfast table, put on his
new red cap, and went.  That new cap just stuck in
my mind because I wondered why he did not have it
on when they found him."
     "The Ludlums had run into pockets of 'foul air'
in their mine, but had been lighting fires to kind of
make it safe, I guess.  When Father reached the
mine, he said he would go down in the bucket to
see what was wrong."
     "He found Ludlum, all right, but he was dead."
     "He tied the body tightly to the bucket with a rope
and gave the signal to be pulled up.  About halfway
up, the other fellow heard a groan and a body drop."
     "When they called and got no answer from Father,
they got scared and hurried to Paris (Idaho) for help.
Paris was a long way down the canyon with snow-
crusted roads."
     "A lot of men came back with them.  They had
some horses hitched to a bobsled, but by that time
it was way in the afternoon, and nobody wanted to
go down in that mine..."
     "Finally they got some kind of grappling hook and
kind of hooked it into his overalls, which were brand
new.  By being right careful, they finally pulled him
out.  Bob Spence, a lawyer who was there, figured
he could see some signs of life in Father, but they
did not know much about artificial respiration in
those days."
     "I can remember so plain Mother leaving the
house and climbing the hill by our place with my
brother Albert, who was only six, and sending him
down the other side of the hill on our homemade
toboggan to tell our neighbors, the Foxes, that
Father was dead."
     "They finally got the bodies down to the
courthouse where they had some kind of an
inquest.  Neither one of those mines was ever
used again..."
     No one could explain the mystery.  Two grown
men, strapping Idaho pit miners, found dead
underground and not a mark on them.  Nor could
they explain Albert Humburg's strange soft groan
or what had taken his new red hat.
     The Humburg mine eventually became known
locally as the Hummingbird Mine, and it's still
up there in Paris Canyon, about 25 miles
(40 kilometers) south of Soda Springs, Idaho.
     Drop by and visit this summer...if you dare!
(See Folklore from Utah, Wyoming and Southern
Idaho, edited by Austin E. Fife, Volume III, Utah
State University, Logan, Utah, 1958, pages 16-17)

FUN UFO WEBSITES:
     Italy's Centro Richerche Oggetti Volanti Non-
Identificado (CROVNI) has a website up and
running dedicated to UFO sightings. Check them
out at http://www.iper.net/crovni/
     Don't miss our parent site, UFO INFO, with
its fine array of photos, news, features and links.
Drop in any time at http://ufoinfo.com.
     Back issues of UFO Roundup can be
accessed and downloaded at our webpage.
Come on in and browse at our page at
http://ufoinfo.com/roundup

     That's it for this week.  Join us again in seven
days for more saucer news from all around the
planet, brought to you by "the paper that goes
home--UFO Roundup."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1999 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO Roundup on their websites
or in newsgroups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 5

                 Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *** 4-2-99

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:14:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:43:29 -0400
Subject: Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News ***  4-2-99

>Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 00:23:05 -0800
>From: YourName [Josh Goldstein] <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News ***  4-2-99


>Hi Errol,

>Thanks for the insight regarding postings and the problems
>with you using correct line lengths.

<snip>

>Errol, I want to personally thank you for all the time and hard
>work you put into keeping this list in great shape as a vital
>tool of communication in Ufology.

>Josh Goldstein

Hi Josh,

Here, here! It can never be said enough times; Errol and his
UpDates list is _peerless_ on the internet. Errol has always
maintained the best run and generally informative UFO related
list that is available. This list is head and shoulders above the
rest and that is due to all the hours and hard work that EBK
puts in on it.

Errol thank you for reading and editing out all that junk mail
(I know you get from varied sources) before it hits the list.
Because you do that for us, we don't have to! :) I've always
felt that you should be compensated for this invaluable service
and for all the hours you spend working on it. If you ever
decide to charge a fee for the service I'll be the first
subscriber.

UpDates is worth it, and you are worth it.

Tu amigo siempre,

John Velez

________________________________________________
                                jvif@spacelab.net
INTRUDERS FOUNDATION/ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER
                            http://www.if-aic.com/
"Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 5

                    Re: 'United States Space Foundation'?

From: Matt Little <blittle1@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:55:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 20:13:54 -0400
Subject: Re: 'United States Space Foundation'?


>Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 11:29:03 +0100
>Subject: 'United States Space Foundation'?
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Anybody know what the United States Space Foundation is?


I have seen this somewhere in these documents.

GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT UNISPACE III

What:  Third United Nations Global Conference on the Exploration
and Peaceful Uses of Outer Space (UNISPACE III). The theme of
the Conference is "Space Benefits for Humanity in the
Twenty-first Century." The Conference is convened as a special
session of the Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space
open to all member states of the United Nations, international
organizations and space industry.

When:  19-30 July 1999. An exhibit of space hardware and
services will be held 19-23 July.

Where:  Austria Center, Vienna, Austria, located adjacent to the
United Nations Vienna headquarters in the Vienna International
Centre. The two earlier UNISPACE Conferences in 1968 and 1982
were also held in Vienna.

Who:  High-level government officials and representatives from
the 185 UN Member States, United Nations system entities,
international governmental and non-governmental organizations
and top executives and representatives from space-related
industry. National non-governmental organizations and space
industry firms will be invited through their respective
governments to participate in the Conference.

Why:  UNISPACE III is seen as an ideal forum at which the global
community can construct a practical, well- defined framework for
future international cooperation in space activities in the
early part of the next millennium by building on the recognition
many countries have regarding the usefulness of space technology
applications.

One of the key objectives of the Conference will be to identify
specific areas and actions through which space technology can
help solve common regional and global problems, such as natural
disasters and environmental degradation, as well as increasing
the understanding of world-wide phenomena such as climate
change.

Greater understanding and use of space technology also has the
potential to increase economic and social growth, especially in
developing countries. Although advanced technologies such as
satellite communications have gained widespread use throughout
the world, not all countries have sufficient know-how and
technology to benefit from these developments. Strengthening the
capabilities of countries in using space applications for
development needs is a second important goal, as space-based
services and technologies might enable countries to "leap-frog"
across whole stages in development.

UNISPACE III will also identify ways and means to further
reinforce international cooperation in space activities.
Particular attention will be given to the role that the United
Nations and its agencies could play in the coordination of
programmes that could utilize space science and technology
applications for development purposes.

Format: The Conference agenda will be taken up in plenary
meetings and two main committees. A number of other parallel
activities are planned. Renowned scientists and personalities
will be invited to speak at a number of workshops, seminars and
evening lectures to highlight to the general public the
important contributions of space science and technology to
everyday life. The next generation of young space professionals
will also have an opportunity to participate in UNISPACE III
through a Youth Forum, which is being organized by the alumni
associations of the International Space University.

A unique component of UNISPACE III will be the presence of the
commercial space industry, which in recent years has outpaced
government involvement in areas from satellite communications to
launch services. The United Nations will sponsor a space
exhibition that will draw some of the world's leading aerospace
manufacturers and other companies displaying examples of current
products and services, complete with multi-media and interactive
presentations on state-of-the-art space technology. Government
agencies and civilian organizations will also exhibit their
relevant space activities. The public is invited to the
exhibition, which will run from 19-23 July 1999.

How: The UN Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space is the
Preparatory Committee for UNISPACE III,  and the Committee's
Scientific and Technical Subcommittee is the Advisory Committee
for the Conference. The United Nations Office for Outer Space
Affairs is the Executive Secretariat of the Conference. A series
of regional preparatory conferences are being held to enhance
awareness of UNISPACE III and to promote discussion of issues
relevant to it. The conference for the Asia and Pacific region
was held in Malaysia in May. Upcoming conferences will be held
in Chile from 12 to 16 October for the Latin American and
Caribbean region, in Morocco from 26 to 30 October for the
African region and in Romania from 25 to 29 January 1999 for the
Eastern European region.


For general information about UNISPACE III and the Space
Generation Forum:

Office for Outer Space Affairs
Vienna International Centre
P.O. Box 500, Room E0953
A-1400 Vienna
AUSTRIA
Tel: (43-1) 21345-4950
Fax: (43-1) 21345-5830
e-mail: OOSA@unov.un.or.at
Internet: http://www.un.or.at/OOSA


For information about the space exhibition:

Howard O'Brien Jr.
American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics
1801 Alexander Bell Drive Suite 500
Reston, Virginia 20191-4344
UNITED STATES
Tel: 800-739-4424/703-264-7535
Fax: 703-264-7551
e-mail: howardo@aiaa.org
Internet: http://www.aiaa.org


Please direct queries about UNISPACE III workshops and seminars
to Mr. Petr Lala and queries about the Space Generation Forum to
Mr. Werner Balogh.

Media inquiries and requests for press accreditation:

United Nations Information Service, Vienna
Tel: (43-1) 21345-4666
Fax: (43-1) 21345-5899
e-mail: unis@unov.un.or.at







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 5

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:51:20 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:41:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>Date: Sun, 04 Apr 99 14:23:13 PDT

>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:22:07 -0500
>>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<Lots of elegant Wildean wit and repartee snipped throughout>

>In fact, if he could read better, he would have seen that my
>posting was just a light-hearted response to a dumb,
>self-serving statement John Rimmer, who is not ordinarily dumb
>or self-serving, had made.

Dumb? Self-serving? Moi? A couple of people, undeterred by
Jerry's dismissive attitude to a reasonable request for "good
cases" have replied in other postings and quoted cases which
they think cannot be put down to mundane causes. This may be so,
and I am sure that Magonia or the Magonia Monthly Supplement,
will look at some of these cases in detail.

However my request was for cases which were indicative of
extraterrestrial intervention, not simply puzzling "unexplained"
cases. Some of these cases may be indicative of an "Objectively
Existing Phenomenon", be it earthlights, secret aircraft,
electromagnetically created plasma, or what you will. But a
puzzling unexplained case simply means that we don't have all
the evidence. It does not mean that it represents
extraterrestrial intervention.

> I have written at length on the PSH
>(of which John is a leading and articulate advocate), skeptics
>and debunkers, and the hard evidence for UFO reality elsewhere,
>in books and periodicals some of you, though apparently not
>Peter, have read.  Those who want a full accounting, and a
>serious, detailed examination of these issues, are referred to
>these.

Just one point Jerry: what do you mean by "UFO reality"? Surely
we all accept that UFOs are a real phenomenon, otherwise we'd be
doing something more constructive like macrame or seeing how
many pints of Fuller's ESB we could sink without falling over!
This is the sort of careless phrase, repeated without defining
it, that causes endless confusion.

>>My point: Statement. Nowhere in John Rimmer's post do we
>>find an attempt to promote the PSH. Nowhere, even, do we
>>find it mentioned. What we find when we look, and read, and
>>mark, and learn, is an asseveration of a truth universally
>>acknowledged, that those fallen into a sympthay with the
>>extra-terrestrial hypothesis (ETH) have been reluctant to
>>produce - even recusant on the matter, as in the Boy
>>Bishop's case - specific UFO cases that are especially
>>suggestive of an ET "solution". Last time around Mark
>>Cashman had the balls to offer a list. This time Bruce
>>Maccabee unzips his list and stands up [sic] to be counted,
>>and finds he has more than ten. Good. Now let ten or more
>>brave souls do likewise, and perhaps, variegated as these
>>individual lists may be, we may find ten that all include.
>>Then we can set-to on them, at least.

>>My point: Variation. All this waffle, which verges on the ad
>>hominem, to which we know the Boy Bishop is ever too pure to
>>descend, about librarians and English majors (I am pleased
>>to be neither, so remain slightly baffled, if very bored
>>indeed, with the tireless repetition of this old saw)

Yes Jerry. What is this thing you have about librarians? I would
suggest that being in a job where every day you are confronted
by the mass of the general public in all their many forms,
trying to provide information on almost every topic under the
sun, and grappling with some of the most devious people on earth
when it comes to getting the fines for overdue books out of
them, would be quite good experience for a ufologist.

> does
>>nothing to dispose of John's point that skeptics he has
>>known (in the UK at least) have come to their current
>>condition, perhaps best characterized by Raymond Cahndler's
>>[sic] phrase "the dewy-eyed innocence of used-car salesmen",
>>through hard work and wide experience. Helpful advice from
>>the Boy Bishop for such good folk to "really get out more"
>>is at best supercilious, at middle oblique, at worst plain
>>stupid.

>That was a _joke_ about getting out, guy.  Lemme repeat: a JOKE.
>In point of fact, I know from personal experience (subject, of
>course, to psychosocial exegesis and the usual blather about the
>worthlessness of anecdotal testimony) that John Rimmer gets out
>at least once in a while, because on one pleasant occasion I
>spent an evening with him in a Chinese restaurant in London.

It was a joke? Ha, ha! There, I feel better now. You still don't
address my point that most sceptics active in the UFO field have
come to their position *after* having been researching, reading
and investigating for a considerable length of time. Their
scepticism has arisen as a result of their research and has not
been an a priori position.

People like Andy Roberts, David Clarke, Hilary Evans, Thierry
Pinvidic, Bertrand Mehurst and even Old Uncle Mendoza and all,
have spent plenty of time out of their armchairs doing
investigations, and just as much in deep leather-bouind comfort
reading the same reports and case histories that Jerome Clark
has.

I say this simply to point out that the wicked sceptics are not
a strange species parachuted into the world of ufology from who
knows where, but ufologists who had considered the evidence as
much as everyone else, and dared to come to a different
conclusion to Clark and Co.

In conclusion, I think it unfair of Peter to call Jerry a
Bishop. Such is his sense of his own infallibility he is clearly
Pope Jerome!

--

John Rimmer
www.magonia.demon.co.uk
Abandon hope all ye who press Enter here






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 5

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:15:35 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:48:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:02:58 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:36:57 +0100
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

><snip>

>>I know it's a hopeless question, and Serge Salvaille has
>>specifically ruled himself out from answering it, but I'll try
>>again: can we have a list of the ten UFO cases giving the best
>>evidence for an extraterrestrial origin for the UFO phenomenon?.

>>I won't hold my breath.

>John seems to forget that we went through this exercise a number
>of months ago - in two ways. 1) Lists of cases were advanced.
>and 2) The nature of the provability of the ETH was discussed,
>and it did not include the "10 case" strawman.

>John also seems to hold the odd idea that failing to prove the
>ETH renders the whole phenomenon moot.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that I
think that if one is unable to prove the ETH then the UFO
phenomenon is not worthy of study? This is obviously not the
case, otherwise why would I be spending my time publishing a
magazine and wearing my fingertips away replying to these
postings? My dictionary defines "moot" as "debatable" or
"discussion of a hypothetical case", in which case I certainly
think the whole phenomenon is "moot" - isn't that the whole
point of this debate and discussion forum?

>As he and most of the
>readers on this list know, while I am not an ETH proponent, I am
>an OEH (Objective Existence Hypothesis) proponent. Objective
>existence is the most parsimonious explanation of a phenomenon
>whose many highest quality cases include the hundreds in the
>Project 1947 EM Effects catalog, the BUFORA and CUFOS vehicle
>interference studies, the Schuessler catalog of medical effects
>from UFOs and the Phillips Physical Trace catalog.

Yes, we did go through this a few months ago, but only one
person came up with a list of ten cases. Rather more replies
were in the nature of Mark Cashman's response above; that there
were "hundreds" of cases which could not be explained in mundane
terms and so must represent some novel (if not necessarily
extraterrestrial) phenomenon. Does Mark Cashman think that
_every_one_ of the cases in the BUFORA, CUFOS, Phillips, etc.,
catalogues has been so thoroughly investigated at source that
all more parsimonious explanations can be ruled out? Surely not!
No, he simply thinks that because lots and lots of people have
been unable to come up with plausible explanations for lots and
lots of cases, this somehow proves that a novel and previously
unknown object is present.

Nevertheless I do give credit to Mr Cashman for coming up with a
list of cases claimed to be evidential for a physical phenomenon
- although not indicative of an extraterrestrial origin, which
is what I asked for - and I am sure that we will take a longer
look at some of them in Magonia or the Monthly Supplement.

--
John Rimmer
www.magonia.demon.co.uk
Abandon hope all ye who press Enter here






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 6

                 Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *** 4-2-99

From: Jeff Rense <eotl@west.net>
Date: Mon,  5 Apr 1999 15:30:38 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 00:45:17 -0400
Subject: Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News ***  4-2-99


>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:14:05 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News ***  4-2-99

>>Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 00:23:05 -0800
>>From: YourName [Josh Goldstein] <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: *** Jeff Rense Weekly E-News ***  4-2-99

>>Hi Errol,

>>Thanks for the insight regarding postings and the problems
>>with you using correct line lengths.

><snip>

>>Errol, I want to personally thank you for all the time and hard
>>work you put into keeping this list in great shape as a vital
>>tool of communication in Ufology.


>Hi Josh,

>Here, here! It can never be said enough times; Errol and his
>UpDates list is _peerless_ on the internet. Errol has always
>maintained the best run and generally informative UFO related
>list that is available. This list is head and shoulders above the
>rest and that is due to all the hours and hard work that EBK
>puts in on it.

<snip>

I want to echo John's statement: Errol has created and provides
the finest UFO-oriented list on this, or perhaps any other,
world. The stream of data is held at a consistently
extraordinary level of merit.  The overall intelligence,
intellect, and data on display here are simply remarkable.

Try imagining a net without Errol's Updates.

Thank you, Errol, you are making a difference on the planet.

Jeff Rense






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 6

                           Re: Kraus vs. Friedman

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:13:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:02:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Kraus vs. Friedman


>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Kraus vs. Friedman
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:22:52 -0400

>>>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>>>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:53:15 EST
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>Subject: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>><snip>

>>>This last point gets to the heart of the matter. The general
>>>issue of alien visitation is so a prior ludicrous, on the basis
>>>of any sound physical reasoning, that any claim that it has
>>>actually happened would have to meet the strongest skepticism
>>>and scrutiny.

>There's no way of knowing how likely alien visits are, because
>we don't have any data.

>By data, I mean hard facts. If I'm curious to know how likely I
>am to run into someone from Bulgaria, I can start with some
>facts. Bulgarians do visit the United States. There are bound to
>be some in the Bulgarian embassy in Washington, and the
>Bulgarian mission to the UN in New York, so my chances of
>meeting one are greater in those cities, and presumably smaller
>in Akron, Ohio. So if I met one in Akron I might be surprised,
>and much less surprised in Washington or New York. But I do know
>that meeting a Bulgarian in the United States is entirely
>possible.


Greg,

You are ever the intelligent one -- and I don't mean that
facetiously.

At the same time, if you had actually met a Bulgarian, there
would no doubt be several ways or mechanisms by which you could
demonstrate same to any objective observer (such as myself). In
which case, end of argument. Yes, you indeed encountered a
Bulgarian, from Bulgaria, a country which we mutually agree
exists and contains numerous inhabitants. All I need is a
surname, passport, street address and phone number, along with a
social security number, assuming the Bulgarian equivalent of
same exists, along with a birth certificate, and I can
presumably confirm your account. In short, I would be forced to
agree and admit that you had indeed encountered a Bulgarian,
even if I had never encountered one myself.

But what if you told me that that selfsame Bulgarian had
abducted you at night in a beam of light, transported you
through your apartment wall with no harm, sucked out your sperm
and used it to create a hybrid baby, or clone, all the while
entertaining you with stories of imminent terrestrial apocalypse
and other environmental catastrophes, leaving you with scoop
marks and episodes of missing time, all of which were originally
initiated at the age of five or less, and which still continue,
aided and abetted by a host of other unusual entites, including
praying mantises and humans dressed in uniforms...well, wouldn't
you think that a bit _odd_, Bulgaria-wise?

Wouldn't you agree that at some point we're no longer talking
about Bulgaria -- or Kansas -- as we know it? And that it's up
to you (or others) to provide some convincing evidence of this
Ur-Bulgaria?

>What are the chances of encountering aliens here on earth? We
>don't have a clue. We don't know how many intelligent races
>there are in the galaxy, or, in fact, if there are any at all.
>If they do exist, we don't know if they travel from star to
>star. If there's a concentration of them, but very distant from
>us, maybe they're less likely to come here. But if there are
>spacefaring aliens on a planet of Alpha Centauri, just four
>light years away, then they might well visit here, even if they
>face the same limitations on interstellar travel that we face,
>at our present level of technology.

Actually, we do have clues, beginning with the "failure" of
SETI; see also the Mike Davis article in The Anomalist 5. Of
course we can't prove that there's no other intelligent life out
there anywhere at this point -- just as the largely anecdotal
abduction accounts don't prove that there is.

>Since we don't know any of this -- since we have no data at all
>about alien races -- then we can't estimate the probability of
>alien visits. Anyone who tries it is simply guessing.

Well, yes. But wouldn't this also include those
abductionoligists who allege that millions of Americans are
being abducted on a regular basis, and have been for
generations? I'm willing to concede that I can't estimate the
probability of alien visits if they will.

>And since we can't know what scientific advantages we might make
>in the next hundred, thousand, million, or billion years, we're
>in no position to make assumptions about what technology aliens
>might have. There might, for all we know, be scientific paradigms
>that go beyond Einstein, just as Einstein went beyond Isaac
>Newton. Advanced races might find interstellar travel much easier
>than we think it is. Or they might not -- but there's no way we
>can know.

Well, yes, but if you're going to adhere to this viewpoint you
might as well say anything or nothing at all. You might also ask
yourself, while you're at it, if they're so goddammed advanced
then what could they possibly need or want from us at all? Why
would they friggin' bother?

Let's concede that they _are_ a billion years in advance of us.
(Which is where you want to have your cake and consume it, too.)
Having now conquered interstellar travel in that interval, where
else would they be scientifically deficient? What _possible_
interest could they have in us at all, let alone some sort of
cosmic "need", never mind a sharing of environmental concerns? A
billion years headstart (which is a pretty long piece of time by
anyone's standard) and they still haven't figured out how to
plug a planetary ozone hole, engineer their own genetic code, or
improve on the Prime Directive? The Bulgarians from Outer Space
(BOS) still need our puny outdated sperm and ova?

Somehow, I don't think so.

But, hey, what's a billion years or two between friends?

Dennis






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   Apr > Apr 6

                                   Behold

From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 06:58:13 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:40:50 -0400
Subject: Behold


go see my new site

Bell porno stuff (later today)

under new 'management'


Behold.


http://members.iquest.net/%7Ewubi/behold/



-- sincerely,


Robert A.M.Stephens
NASA Documentation Program
Stillwater Mills-Aerospace
KSC-PIB/shuttle/MSF
406-745-3818
sti3818@montana.com
http://198.116.116.10/gallery/arts/samples/.html
http://members.iquest.net/~wubi/behold/






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                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:08:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:39:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:03:08 EST
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:54:07 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>>>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:23:24 -0500

Dear Mr. Sparks,

My first reaction was not to answer your post.  But some
semantic discrepancies kept bugging me and I finally asked
myself: are you a man or a mouse?  Squeak, squeak was my answer,
so, let's get on with the friction.

>My distinguished colleague Mark Cashman, whom I consider to be
>the leading theorist in ufology today, has made some good points
>to augment the original, which I'd like to comment on or clarify
>a bit.

>Firstly, I don't agree with the original author's claim that
>every skeptical opinion is based on ignorance of the data
>whether deliberate or unintentional.

You mean me?  First rectification about your discourse:

A=B
B=C

then
A=C

Since Mr. Cashman apparently agrees with my post, I strongly
suggest that you rephrase your post in the following:

>Firstly, I don't agree, Mark, with your opinion that
>every skeptical opinion is based on ignorance of the data
>whether deliberate or unintentional.

Hyperbolic prose does tend to scratch my sensitivity.

<snip>

>And an opinion can still be
>objective even if based on ignorance, because objectivity is not
>the same thing as "completeness" or "thoroughness," it simply
>means fair, unbiased and even-handed.  A skeptic can be
>objective even if uninformed.

An opinion can be based on ignorance as long as it is fair.  In
my thesaurus, fair has a couple of meanings.  I suppose that
your idea of fairness implies "characterized by honesty, justice
and Freedom From Improper Influence" ('The Merriam-Webster
Concise School and Office Thesaurus').  Please show me a "fair"
skeptic.  BTW, the same reference does mention "fair" as
synonymous of "exhibition" and related to "carnival and
festival".  Please show me an un-fair (sic) skeptic.

>Some skeptics, such as Menzel and Sheaffer, have provably
>distorted or ignored evidence, though I almost never see
>specific examples cited on this List (till Mark's posting and
>Jerry Clark's).

My actual post will take me about 2 hours of writing (eh, man,
I'm not Jerome Clark) and as much thinking.  If you want an
elbarorate history of information manipulation by skeptics,
I'll be glad to fill the bill.  One problem, though: it will
take me 6 hours of sweat and just to redo the work eminent
ufologists.  I do suggest:

http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/

One of the best sites... maybe going down in a near future.

>Some skeptics such as Klass and Oberg -- whom I have vigorously
>fought in the past -- have investigated cases in-depth and come
>up with negative results quite genuinely (Klass on RB-47 though
>I've proven him totally wrong, Klass on the Iowa Fireball and
>Crowder cases;  Oberg on STS-48 and Gemini 4, though we might
>disagree on points).  UFOlogists may disagree or fault the
>fact-finding but the disagreement is legitimate, e.g., Klass and
>Sheaffer are both simply mistaken about the weather report in
>the McMinnville case because they misinterpreted the standard
>reporting symbols ("O" does _not_ mean 0% cloud cover but 0 to
>10%).  Klass and Oberg may be faulted in other cases but in some
>they have "done their homework."

<snip>

>This verbal abuse does serve to offend and scare off legitimate
>scientists who might otherwise be interested in investigating
>the subject of UFOs (I don't mean those establishment scientists
>who have chips on their shoulders and taunt ufologists to come
>knock them off, but those with genuine interest).  The UFO
>UpDates List is notorious for uncontrolled verbal attacks and
>abuse and is one reason I try to stay off of it for the most
>part.  Saying anything favorable about Klass -- even if
>ensconced in loads of criticism -- is the kiss of death on this
>list and others.

This is where 2 + 2 starts making 5.

Let's suppose, hypothetically of course, that Mark Cashman got
caught in some intellectual fraud regarding a UFO case.  Let's
suppose that it was proven beyond any doubt that Mark Cashman
"cheated" in the most outrageous way with a case (I let you
imagine the details).

My 2 cents that Mark would loose ALL credibility in the eyes of
the sane UFO field which regards him as a thorough and honest
investigator.

Well, you tell me sir how it can be possible that people, who
have in the past committed frauds in regards of UFO cases, still
get freaking credit for hitting the target in other cases in
ufology.

How is it that serious ufologists have to walk the razor edge
and can loose everything on a bad day?  How is it that other
objective skeptic oxymorons NEVER loose credibility, EVEN when
it has been proven without a shadow of a doubt that they have
deliberately falsified the data to serve an obscure purpose that
can only be disinformation?

Please re-read your own posts sir.  I find them quite
enlightening: no irony in that, your post to Jerome Clark was
very good.

But please add 2 + 2.  I have grown tired of skeptics, not of
doubt - a prerequisite to all truth, but of skeptics - a sad
bunch on clowns.

Science has no alibi to ignore UFOs.

When you talk alibis, it is because a crime has been committed.
You may find suspects in ufologists.  Look elsewhere for the
culprits.

Serge Salvaille







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   Apr > Apr 6

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:26:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:41:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:15:35 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

I wrote:

>>John also seems to hold the odd idea that failing to prove the
>>ETH renders the whole phenomenon moot.

John replied:

>I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that I
>think that if one is unable to prove the ETH then the UFO
>phenomenon is not worthy of study? This is obviously not the
>case, otherwise why would I be spending my time publishing a
>magazine and wearing my fingertips away replying to these
>postings? My dictionary defines "moot" as "debatable" or
>"discussion of a hypothetical case", in which case I certainly
>think the whole phenomenon is "moot" - isn't that the whole
>point of this debate and discussion forum?

Perhaps I should have been more precise.

I used the definition of moot:

"2. Specifically: To discuss by way of exercise; to argue for
practice; to propound and discuss in a mock court."

        Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary

In other words, to simply use it as a framework for practicing
debating skills.

Though I suspect most everyone on the list took my meaning even
with the lower word count.

>>As he and most of the
>>readers on this list know, while I am not an ETH proponent, I am
>>an OEH (Objective Existence Hypothesis) proponent. Objective
>>existence is the most parsimonious explanation of a phenomenon
>>whose many highest quality cases include the hundreds in the
>>Project 1947 EM Effects catalog, the BUFORA and CUFOS vehicle
>>interference studies, the Schuessler catalog of medical effects
>>from UFOs and the Phillips Physical Trace catalog.

>Yes, we did go through this a few months ago, but only one
>person came up with a list of ten cases. Rather more replies
>were in the nature of Mark Cashman's response above; that there
>were "hundreds" of cases which could not be explained in mundane
>terms and so must represent some novel (if not necessarily
>extraterrestrial) phenomenon. Does Mark Cashman think that
>_every_one_ of the cases in the BUFORA, CUFOS, Phillips, etc.,
>catalogues has been so thoroughly investigated at source that
>all more parsimonious explanations can be ruled out? Surely not!

Please, don't call me Shirley (grin). Now...

Let's step back into the arena of science. Was the germ theory
of disease proven by the ten best cases? Were all of the
observations of Pasteur of equal quality? How many observations
were used to suggest and then confirm general relativity?

What all of these important scientific processes have in common
is discovery of pattern. A pattern which can only be revealed by
studying the body of observations _as a whole_. A pattern which
is stronger than its weakest link.

Thus, the stress that those interested in science place on
pattern and on large numbers of cases.

Let me repeat what has been said elsewhere: after 50 years of
attempts to explain every single UFO case as if it were the only
UFO case in existence, without the slightest reference to
consistency and pattern, the effort has been a failure. It fails
more and more strongly as the universe of cases is filtered for
higher quality. When the Air Force allowed any jittering star
point in the sky into their study, it led to something averaging
90% explained. When the Condon Committee restricted the cases
more tightly, the level of explained cases descended to around
70%. And with the documentation of the methodological bias of
the Condon effort _against_ finding unknowns, it is even more
remarkable.

This pattern suggests that a better answer is needed.

Such a better answer is not an appeal to the fallibility of the
reconstructive nature of memory. All investigators know that.
That's why they go into the field as fast as possible, rely on
original historical accounts over press reports, and why they
use interview techniques designed to let the witness tell their
story as they saw it, first, before investigators can even
inadvertently provide suggestions.

Yes, there is a place for debates and discussion of single
cases. There is a need for better investigation and
investigative techniques. Those who distort, confabulate, or
simply make up data must be exposed and reviled.

But we must start moving to the next level, instead of remaining
mired in foolish discussions which assume that an experienced
pilot focused on a phenomenon for an extended period of time
under excellent observing conditons cannot distinguish between
flat, circular objects of metallic surface, performing manuvers
among mountain peaks with an occasional yaw, travelling faster
than his aircraft - and a formation of birds flapping their
wings in regular time, in close proximity and traveling much
slower that the witness' aircraft.

We need to look for patterns, to develop classification systems
which reveal those patterns, and develop catalogs which capture
the data that supports those patterns. Not spin eerie and
insubstantial fantasies about the capabilities of migranes to
create disk-like visions.

Perhaps we are no more that Tycho waiting for Kepler, but the
time has come to start working on Keplerian level patterns. To
stop wasting time and energy.

>No, he simply thinks that because lots and lots of people have
>been unable to come up with plausible explanations for lots and
>lots of cases, this somehow proves that a novel and previously
>unknown object is present.

I find it difficult to understand the problem with this concept,
since it is at the root of every scientific discovery.

All I can believe is that the following must be a description of
this view of the witnesses whose observations are recorded by
those catalogs:

"The subject in this view does not grasp external facts, it
creates facts out of its own resources. It creates its objects
by its own inner processes. Such processes... are arbitrary,
i.e. not based on or derived from reality."

Like many, I find it impossible to believe that this is true for
the many responsible witnesses to the UFO phenomenon, the
various medical and physical effects, or the consistency of the
pattern of the vehicle interference effects which have been
documented and statistically studied. And, frankly, it is
insulting to the many policemen, military officers, scientists,
and executives who have dared to report their observations in
the face of certain ridicule. Ultimately, it is a self-fufilling
prophecy, since the best witnesses will not come forward only to
be called idiots who cannot perceive the world around them.

>Nevertheless I do give credit to Mr Cashman for coming up with a
>list of cases claimed to be evidential for a physical phenomenon
>- although not indicative of an extraterrestrial origin, which
>is what I asked for - and I am sure that we will take a longer
>look at some of them in Magonia or the Monthly Supplement.

Apparently John did little to note the components of the ETH
discriminators which I described. As I pointed out -

* Every case with a solid, apparently technological object is
suggestive of ETH, since these objects do not demonstrate
behavior which is consistent with terrestrial aerodynamics, do
show performance which is significantly in advance of typical
terrestrial aeronautics, and do exhibit other features such as
luminosity which are not consistent with terrestrial
technologies.

* Every case with an occupant is suggestive of ETH. There are
many multiple witness cases with occupants seen at close range.
The patterns in the 1954 French wave indicate that the witnesses
were responsible individuals who witnessed these occurrences in
familiar surroundings while engaged in normal work. If the
occupants have the appearance and behavior indicated in the
data, then they are not humans. If they are not humans, the
parsimonious explanation is that they are also not terrestrial.

* Every case with performance suggesting the ability to attain
escape velocity is suggestive of ETH. Any case with measured
speeds in the neighborhood of, say 25k mph can be considered for
this.

* Every case where the object arrives vertically from the great
altitude and departs vertically to great altitude is suggestive
of ETH, since a non-terrestrial origin requires returning to the
non-terrestrial source.

It seems to me that the major barrier so far to the conclusive
proof of ETH is the lack of detection of UFOs in interplanetary
or interstellar space. Given the size of space, however, this is
not surprising.

I'll also point out what I have many times: that is is very
likely to be too early for large-scale theories of the origin
and intent of the UFO phenomenon.

In closing, I resist the effort to tear down the UFO phenomenon
into a disconnected scattering of unrelated cases. I am
interested in patterns, not in futility.

Given these discriminators and a few other criteria, such as
multiple witnesses, angular size greater than a half degree,
etc, John can assemble his own list of the 10 best ETH cases.

Just think, he can free up Bruce, and Brad, and I to do other
work!

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------






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                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:52:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:55:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:51:20 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>However my request was for cases which were indicative of
>extraterrestrial intervention, not simply puzzling
>"unexplained" cases.

Well, let me put a question to you, John.

What sort of cases would these be?

I always thought the drill went as follows. Puzzling unexplained
cases exist. They appear to involve unknown objects flying
about, displaying maneuvers (along with other tasty features)
that our technology can't match. We start wondering where these
objects might come from. An extraterrestrial origin is one
reasonable guess.

This is not just the way the best-known ufologists work -- it's
also quite literally the history of the UFO phenomenon. As you
know, hardly anyone thought "flying saucers" came from space
when they were first widely talked about, in 1947. Most of the
discussion was about how puzzling and unexplained they were.
Most people who didn't dismiss them as hoaxes or illusions
thought they were secret weapons. It took a few years for the
ETH to catch on.

But now, apparently, you want to restructure the theory and
practice of ufology. Because the ETH is so popular, you want to
focus specifically on that. You challenge people to name cases
that directly -- not by implication -- suggest alien visits, as
if what you're proposing were reasonable, or even possible.

What cases would they be? Maybe the Hill case, since the alien
leader showed Betty Hill a star map. (I'll leave out Adamski and
other '50s contactees, since neither side in this discussion
believes them.) But what else? Even something as bizarre and
extreme as the Linda case offers no evidence that aliens were
involved. The beings never said they came from space. If they're
real, they might have come from the center of the earth, or the
thirteenth dimension. (And even if they'd said they came from
space, as Betty Hill's alien seemed to, they could have been
lying.)

So, John=85since you're proposing (with every air of being
serious) something so radically new, please help us out. Give us
your own list. Name some cases that -- if only they'd really
happened as advertised --woud suggest extraterrestrial
intervention. Or make up cases that don't exist. Help us out by
describing some imaginary cases, which, if they were real, would
meet the standard you're demanding from the rest of us.

Since you say you like my musical comparisons, I'll give you
one. A few years ago, I was part of a panel discussion at the
Eastman School of Music, in Rochestrer, NY. The subject was the
future of classical music, or something like that, and I was the
lone voice saying that rock & roll had artistic value. During
the question period after the panel discussion, a tight-bunned
musicologist type pops up, and in a triumphant, angry voice
dares me to name a single rock song with the musical structure
of a Brahms symphony.

His question was irrelevant, of course, because obviously rock
songs don't have that kind of structure, and nobody -- certainly
not me -- had ever suggested they did. In ufology, John, you're
that musicologist (with a better sense of humor, thank God). In
my view, you're raising an absurd question, one with no real
meaning and no connection to any ongoing discussion, and then
claiming rhetorical victory when nobody answers it.

Though if you provide a list of plausible cases, I might change
my mind.

Greg Sandow







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   Apr > Apr 6

                                 Re: Behold

From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 00:17:27 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:05:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Behold


>Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 06:58:13 -0600
>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>Subject: Behold

Would like to hear how Bell is going to answer these charges. If
they prove true, then no serious ufologist will ever want to be
associated with Bell again. If they prove untrue then Bell has
what appears to be a nice law suit hand delivered and wrapped
with a bow.

Will Bell answer or dodge? Will he sue or will he hide? Stephens
may be a friggin' nutcase, but charges of being involved in
pornography are serious. This is not 200 questions that can be
ignored, but an extremely serious charge.

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III






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                 Re: Ultra Secret US 'National Intelligence

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:55:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:09:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Ultra Secret US 'National Intelligence


>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Ultra Secret US 'National Intelligence Service' Exposed?
>Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 07:28:10 GMT

>Source: Mind Control Forum,

>http://www.mk.net/~mcf/archv-hm.htm#Fleming

>James Thomas Fleming's site is at:

>http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Choir/9701/

>It all sounds a little too much like a combination of the infamous
>SETI hoax (the alleged 'Defense Intelligence Agency' seal) and a James
>Bond novel by Ian Fleming.

>Arresting 'James Thomas Fleming' and closing down  the site would
>imply that the DIA somehow validated the totally unproven allegations.

>Stig

>***

>James Thomas Fleming

>In his report, James Thomas Fleming, former Project Coordinator
>of the National Intelligence Service, details how acoustic mind
>control experiments were conducted there. Certain frequencies
>would allow controllers to create assasins of unsuspecting
>subjects.

<snip>

>Stig

>***

>Access Denied

>This site has been decommissioned pending investigation.

>**********************************************

>From Larry Hatch.

Dear Stig and list.

I could read the entire Fleming text on the first URL given
above.    The second site is indeed inoperative, quite possibly
by its owner,  Fleming himself.

Yes, there is a little logo ( I couldn't pull in the image ).
When I  clicked on it, it tried to call up the national DIA
website, true.    It is also true that any kid can do that.

I could post the same web page in about 10 minutes,
complete with a link to the Pope in Rome if I chose.

Does anyone think the DIA would a) silence this guy -and-
b)  leave their calling card on his website?   If so, I have a
nice bridge for sale.

As for the "National Intelligence Service",  I did a Yahoo
web search for that exact phrase and spelling.   I got 165
websites to choose from.

It seems there are NISes all over the world.   Variously
spelled or  phrased in their native languages,  I found them
in South Korea ( many listings ),  Bulgaria,  Albania,
Peru ( the acronym in Peru is SIN! )  In Brazil ( SNI ),
in Greece, in Turkey and Haiti ( NIS )  etc.

One Canadian listing turned out to be in reference to the
(former?) South African NIS.

The one country conspicuously missing is the USA.

That seems odd.    Anyone can call up the CIA website,
the DIA, FBI .. even the NSA website ( which is worth a
nice visit.   They offer a fairly decent benefits package  )

If there is an NIS in the USA its pretty darn quiet indeed!
Maybe its 57 levels of security above Top Secret.

I think a far more inexpensive and obvious hypothesis
suggests itself  ..  pure humbug.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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   Apr > Apr 6

                           Re: Kraus vs. Friedman

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:30:24 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:17:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Kraus vs. Friedman


>Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:13:00 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
>Subject: Re: Bulgarians From Outer Space


>Yes, you indeed encountered a Bulgarian, from Bulgaria, a
>country which we mutually agree exists and contains numerous
>inhabitants. All I need is a surname, passport, street address
>and phone number, along with a social security number, assuming
>the Bulgarian equivalent of same exists, along with a birth
>certificate, and I can presumably confirm your account. In
>short, I would be forced to agree and admit that you had indeed
>encountered a Bulgarian, even if I had never encountered one
>myself.


Hi Dennis,

Now wait a minute. Here's the problem with the analogy. You
proceed from the assumption that a given skeptic truly wants to
know if Bulgarians/Bulgaria exist. You see, social security
numbers, and the other identifying items can be stolen or
created out of whole cloth. Doesn't matter, I the skeptic won't
bother to check, since I've already decided there is no such
place as Bulgaria. Oh, sure, it's on the map, but maps can be
forged too, and it may just be a printing error.

As for eyewitness reports of Bulgarians, people are easily
fooled. Many people, having read books about Bulgaria, have a
deeply ingrained desire to believe in it. It's all hearsay, and
the purported photos of Bulgarians are merely doctored photos of
Hungarians. Don't even talk to me about videos.

Greg






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   Apr > Apr 6

                      Wycliffe Well, Oz, UFO Stop Over

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:04:24 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 20:01:10 -0400
Subject: Wycliffe Well, Oz, UFO Stop Over


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw/new

****************************************************************
UFO Australian Research Network Hot Line Number
            1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************


Wycliffe Well UFO stopover
'Don't care what the sceptics say'

NORTHERN TERRITORY NEWS March 12, 1999

By NIKKI VOSS

Territory UFO hot spot Wycliffe Well is bubbling with excitement
again after a string of sightings in the past eight days. The
latest sighting inspired a group of Queensland UFO chasers "The
Australian UFO Research Network" to visit the remote spot this
week. Lou Farkas, who runs the Wycliffe Well roadhouse, 374klm
north of Alice Springs said most of his staff had seen two UFOs
on March 4th & 5th. Territory-born roadhouse worker Wilma
Bradshaw, 60, said she saw a strange "jellyfish" type light in
the night sky about 8.15pm on March 5th.  She said the
odd-shaped light turned from silver to red and had flowing
tentacles-type underneath it. Around midnight the pervious
night, six staff members were milling about after work when they
spotted a similar shimmering light in the sky.

Tourists also reported strange lights on the horizon four days
ago. Ms Bradshaw said: "It was like a jelly blubber with
tentacles." "It started out as silvery white then faded out and
became a brilliant red in the western sky." "It would go away
then come forward again." "I was with another woman and she
watched it for a few minutes." "I ran inside to get a camera but
when I came back out it was gone."

Ms Bradshaw said: "The UFO sighting and reports came in "fits
and starts." "It will be really quite for a while then all of a
sudden you will see a whole heap of them in a couple of weeks."
Mr. Farkas said he often had terrified tourist rushing into his
roadhouse saying their cars had been followed by UFOs along the
highway. Mr. Farkas said: "We don't promote the fact we get a
lot of UFO sightings _we don't need to. "Word of mouth means
tourist come here to see them for themselves". "But we always
note them down." "We just had a team of UFO Researchers "The
Australian UFO Research Network" from Queensland in here two
days ago. "They has heard about our sighting a couple of weeks
ago and wanted to have a look. "We get UFO 'experts from all
over the world all the time." But he said UFOs were so common he
had become used to the freaky phenomenon. "I've been seeing them
hovering about for years so I'm getting a bit accustomed to them
now".

"I don't care what the sceptics say, they are out there." In
September 1994, Mr. Farkas said he and his staff had seen UFOs
at the roadhouse every night for three weeks. He described the
UFO as a light that appeared in the western sky at the same time
each night and then disappeared further westward.  Mr. Farkas
said sometimes there were two objects, which had red, orange and
green rotating lights, and when they took off, the phone and
EFTPOS machine went 'dead.'

GLOWING

Worker Malcolm White said at the time he thought the light was a
road train with spotlights on. He said, "It was glowing orange
with a bright lights.

" Me White said the object was hanging over the highway and came
500m of him before it took a sharp left turn and shot off into
the sky. As it left the ground, Mr. White's four-wheel drive
mysteriously stopped. The sighting have created intense public
interest, with UFO investigators and other curious people now
streaming to the roads house in their own attempt to catch a
glimpse of the phenomenon.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Regards Diane Harrison







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   Apr > Apr 6

                             Re: UFO*BC Updates

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:00:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 20:10:11 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO*BC Updates


At 01:31 PM 4/5/1999 -0400, I wrote:

>Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:43:53 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO*BC Updates

<snip>

>None of the Roswell witnesses have been able to provide any
>tangible proof that their allegations are accurate, so there
>hasn't been anything to prosecute them for, so I wouldn't
>necessarily use that as a factor to prove that there is no
>danger to potential witnesses who come forward to disclose what
>may be secrets involving National security.

<snip>

The above statement's phrasing is a good example of what happens
if you fail to re-read an entire paragraph after making
modifications to sections within it.  I think I got the point
across, but it also show why I'm not a writer.

I apologize for the bad grammer.

Steve





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   Apr > Apr 6

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 99 10:54:17 PDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 20:19:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:51:20 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>>Date: Sun, 04 Apr 99 14:23:13 PDT

>>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:22:07 -0500
>>>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>>>Subject: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


Hi, John,

>>In fact, if he could read better, he would have seen that my
>>posting was just a light-hearted response to a dumb,
>>self-serving statement John Rimmer, who is not ordinarily dumb
>>or self-serving, had made.

>Dumb? Self-serving? Moi? A couple of people, undeterred by
>Jerry's dismissive attitude to a reasonable request for "good
>cases" have replied in other postings and quoted cases which
>they think cannot be put down to mundane causes. This may be so,
>and I am sure that Magonia or the Magonia Monthly Supplement,
>will look at some of these cases in detail.

One thing that strikes me from this current exchange between
proponents of UFOs as anomalous physical phenomena and those who
hold them to be cultural artifacts is how little the latter are
paying attention anymore to what the former are saying.  John
has had to be reminded of discussions that addressed the very
issues of which he claims to know nothing on this list just
weeks and months ago.  Apparently when you've got all the
answers, you're excused from paying any further attention.

And while I am at it, John, here's a little challenge for you:
Show me an exchange between skeptics and proponents of ball
lightning in which the latter were challenged to produce their
10 best cases, on which presumably their case rises or falls.
I look forward to your answer.

>However my request was for cases which were indicative of
>extraterrestrial intervention, not simply puzzling "unexplained"
>cases. Some of these cases may be indicative of an "Objectively
>Existing Phenomenon", be it earthlights, secret aircraft,
>electromagnetically created plasma, or what you will. But a
>puzzling unexplained case simply means that we don't have all
>the evidence. It does not mean that it represents
>extraterrestrial intervention.

What do you want, reports of UFOs with Martian bumper stickers?
Let's concentrate first on the investigation and documentation
of cases which suggest UFOs to be physical and technological. I
know Magonians have never been comfortable with those kinds of
cases, but unfortunately, the UFO phenomenon seems supremely
indifferent to your comfort, or to the comfort of skeptics in
general.

>>I have written at length on the PSH
>>(of which John is a leading and articulate advocate), skeptics
>>and debunkers, and the hard evidence for UFO reality elsewhere,
>>in books and periodicals some of you, though apparently not
>>Peter, have read.  Those who want a full accounting, and a
>>serious, detailed examination of these issues, are referred to
>>these.

>Just one point Jerry: what do you mean by "UFO reality"? Surely
>we all accept that UFOs are a real phenomenon, otherwise we'd be
>doing something more constructive like macrame or seeing how
>many pints of Fuller's ESB we could sink without falling over!
>This is the sort of careless phrase, repeated without defining
>it, that causes endless confusion.

By "UFO reality" I use a phrase just about everybody else would
have no trouble understanding, since it has been used since the
early days of ufology.  Readers of True had only to read the
title "The Flying Saucers Are Real" to figure out what Donald
Keyhoe had to tell them in the article that followed.  "Real"
UFOs are UFOs that are what appearances suggest: physical
structures of unknown origin. The ETH is a reasonable attempt
to put such reports into a larger explanatory context, but it is
not essential to the current discussion, which needs to focus on
investigation and documentation rather than allow itself to be
sidetracked into premature speculation.

>Yes Jerry. What is this thing you have about librarians? I would
>suggest that being in a job where every day you are confronted
>by the mass of the general public in all their many forms,
>trying to provide information on almost every topic under the
>sun, and grappling with some of the most devious people on earth
>when it comes to getting the fines for overdue books out of
>them, would be quite good experience for a ufologist.

Actually, as one who frequents libraries and loves books, I am
all in favor of librarians.  The point, which I should have
thought obvious enough, is simply this:

Since psychosocial theorists love to indulge themselves in
speculation about the cultural and psychological reasons why
proponents might regard UFOs as real, physical, and
technological, PSH advocates have no right to complain when a
psychosocial light is turned on them.  Reading PSH literature,
this onetime (longtime ago, sigh) English major is struck by how
much it resembles not scientific discourse but literary
criticism.  This is precisely what one would expect of persons
who were trained in the liberal arts as opposed to the sciences.
That is also why PSH writing typically tells me more about the
persons who write it -- the sorts of persons I've known all my
life; my best friend is an English professor, and my fiance, who
has an advanced degree in English, writes literary text - and
reference books -- than it does about the larger UFO phenomenon
people actually experience.  My own first book, the lamentable
The Unidentified (still praised by PSHers), has English major
written all over it.

Because my own interests are largely literary, cultural, and
political, I honestly wish I could find PSH writing persuasive.
I would feel right at home with John and his merry band, turning
ufology into literary and social criticism.  I wouldn't be able
to tell you anything important about the UFO phenomenon as such,
but I'd be having a lot of fun, and it would be a lot more
cost-free, career- and respectability-wise, than being publicly
identified with the notion that UFOs are highly strange,
extraordinary phenomena.

>>does
>>>nothing to dispose of John's point that skeptics he has
>>>known (in the UK at least) have come to their current
>>>condition, perhaps best characterized by Raymond Cahndler's
>>>[sic] phrase "the dewy-eyed innocence of used-car salesmen",
>>>through hard work and wide experience. Helpful advice from
>>>the Boy Bishop for such good folk to "really get out more"
>>>is at best supercilious, at middle oblique, at worst plain
>>>stupid.

>>That was a _joke_ about getting out, guy.  Lemme repeat: a JOKE.
>>In point of fact, I know from personal experience (subject, of
>>course, to psychosocial exegesis and the usual blather about the
>>worthlessness of anecdotal testimony) that John Rimmer gets out
>>at least once in a while, because on one pleasant occasion I
>>spent an evening with him in a Chinese restaurant in London.

>It was a joke? Ha, ha! There, I feel better now. You still don't
>address my point that most sceptics active in the UFO field have
>come to their position *after* having been researching, reading
>and investigating for a considerable length of time. Their
>scepticism has arisen as a result of their research and has not
>been an a priori position.

Glad you feel better, John.

>People like Andy Roberts, David Clarke, Hilary Evans, Thierry
>Pinvidic, Bertrand Mehurst and even Old Uncle Mendoza and all,
>have spent plenty of time out of their armchairs doing
>investigations, and just as much in deep leather-bouind comfort
>reading the same reports and case histories that Jerome Clark
>has.

Since I barely know many of the people above (and Hilary Evans
and I belong to a mutual admiration society, and Roberts and
Clarke have just provided me two excellent manuscripts which
will appear in IUR), I will simply say, God bless 'em, every
one.

>I say this simply to point out that the wicked sceptics are not
>a strange species parachuted into the world of ufology from who
>knows where, but ufologists who had considered the evidence as
>much as everyone else, and dared to come to a different
>conclusion to Clark and Co.

John conveniently fails to note that there is plenty of traffic
in the other direction, and I am an example of same -- for which
I am certain never to be forgiven in certain quarters.  The
personal cost I've paid astounds even me, and the repercussions
continue. But it's not a story I will discuss in public.

>In conclusion, I think it unfair of Peter to call Jerry a
>Bishop. Such is his sense of his own infallibility he is clearly
>Pope Jerome!

PSH types are nothing if not amusing.  Here I of all people have
been accused of believing myself infallible, when -- as John
knows perfectly well -- I have on a number of occasions publicly
confessed to error when the occasion called for it. Even worse
from John's point of view, I have harshly criticized my own
early writing and moved from PSH-like neoskeptic (my first book
characterized UFO encounters as hallucinatory and subjective) to
the more realistic, pragmatic position I hold now.

Meanwhile, John's magazine Magonia sinks ever deeper into the
mud of a cause lost long ago. It and its monthly supplement
regularly congratulate themselves not only on their rationality
but on their victory over the heretics (for the most recent
example, see the opening remarks in the current monthly
supplement, posted elsewhere on this list). Magonia's notion of
victory reminds me of the late Vermont Sen. George Aiken's.  As
it became clear that America's venture into the Vietnam conflict
was not going to succeed, Aiken wryly suggested that America
declare victory and go home.  The sort of victory Magonia
regularly declares is of the distinctly Aikenian variety.

And since we're calling names, what are you?  As one who clearly
feels that he no longer needs to listen to what others are
saying -- presumably because you feel you have found your way to
the mountaintop -- may we start calling you Archangel John?
Nah, I don't think so.  But, guys, grow up, okay?

Jerry Clark







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   Apr > Apr 6

                           Re: Kraus vs. Friedman

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:48:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 20:26:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Kraus vs. Friedman


>Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:13:00 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
>Subject: Re: Bulgarians From Outer Space

>At the same time, if you had actually met a Bulgarian, there
>would no doubt be several ways or mechanisms by which you could
>demonstrate same to any objective observer (such as myself). In
>which case, end of argument. Yes, you indeed encountered a
>Bulgarian, from Bulgaria, a country which we mutually agree
>exists and contains numerous inhabitants. All I need is a
>surname, passport, street address and phone number, along with a
>social security number, assuming the Bulgarian equivalent of
>same exists, along with a birth certificate, and I can
>presumably confirm your account. In short, I would be forced to
>agree and admit that you had indeed encountered a Bulgarian,
>even if I had never encountered one myself.

Hi, Dennis.

Today I was out walking, and -- such serendipity -- encountered
a Bulgarian. I knew he was Bulgarian because he wore a big sign
saying so, with full display of his passport, address, and so
on, so anyone could confirm his identity and origin. "Alien from
Bulgaria!" read the sign. "Not from UFO, with blue beam to
abduct!"

Of course I stopped to chat with him. And since I happened to be
carrying --- serendipity, once again -- a printout of your
message, I showed it to him, and asked him what he thought.

His first reaction surprised me. (I might stress that he was
remarkably urbane, wearing a silk Armani suit, and on his way to
a restaurant so trendy that I'd never heard of it. He spoke
English with great relish, but also with a rich Bulgarian
accent, which I've attempted to reproduce here.)

"Denisov," he said, looking with a perplexed smile at your name.
"Denisov! Is relation to Communist leader in Bulgaria many years
ago?"

"Edison Denisov!" I replied. "A well-known figure in the
Communist International! But this, I'm afraid, is someone else.
Dennis, you see, is his _first_ name."

"I read anyway," said my new friend, and he pored over your
words, alternating smiles with scowls.

>But what if you told me that that selfsame Bulgarian had
>abducted you at night in a beam of light, transported you
>through your apartment wall with no harm, sucked out your sperm
>and used it to create a hybrid baby, or clone, all the while
>entertaining you with stories of imminent terrestrial apocalypse
>and other environmental catastrophes, leaving you with scoop
>marks and episodes of missing time, all of which were originally
>initiated at the age of five or less, and which still continue,
>aided and abetted by a host of other unusual entites, including
>praying mantises and humans dressed in uniforms...well, wouldn't
>you think that a bit _odd_, Bulgaria-wise?

>Wouldn't you agree that at some point we're no longer talking
>about Bulgaria -- or Kansas -- as we know it? And that it's up
>to you (or others) to provide some convincing evidence of this
>Ur-Bulgaria?

"Denisov talking here about apple and pear," said the Bulgarian,
when he reached this point in your message. (He didn't remember,
I guess, that we say "apples and oranges.") "You never say alien
here. Not in Bulgaria, not in US, not on earth. Denisov have fly
in hat about abduction?"

"Bee in his bonnet," I grinned back. "I think you've got that one
right."

>>What are the chances of encountering aliens here on earth? We
>>don't have a clue. We don't know how many intelligent races
>>there are in the galaxy, or, in fact, if there are any at all.
>>If they do exist, we don't know if they travel from star to
>>star. If there's a concentration of them, but very distant from
>>us, maybe they're less likely to come here. But if there are
>>spacefaring aliens on a planet of Alpha Centauri, just four
>>light years away, then they might well visit here, even if they
>>face the same limitations on interstellar travel that we face,
>>at our present level of technology.

>Actually, we do have clues, beginning with the "failure" of
>SETI; see also the Mike Davis article in The Anomalist 5. Of
>course we can't prove that there's no other intelligent life out
>there anywhere at this point -- just as the largely anecdotal
>abduction accounts don't prove that there is.

"Apple and pear, apple and pear! Where you say abduct in
message?" (He meant, of course, the message Dennis was responding
to.)

"Denisov also leap to ending." ("Jump to conclusions," he meant,
of course.) "So-called SETI failure prove nothing. Maybe only
mean alien not use radio. Mike Davis article in esteemed journal
Anomalist [they read it even in Bulgaria, Dennis!] only theory.
Not give clue to data. Data appple, theory pear. Different thing!
Many theory wrong. Denisov smart man, know that. Why he think
Mike Davis theory give clue to data when not proved yet right or
wrong?"

>>Since we don't know any of this -- since we have no data at all
>>about alien races -- then we can't estimate the probability of
>>alien visits. Anyone who tries it is simply guessing.

>Well, yes. But wouldn't this also include those
>abductionoligists who allege that millions of Americans are
>being abducted on a regular basis, and have been for
>generations? I'm willing to concede that I can't estimate the
>probability of alien visits if they will.

"Apple and pear!" the Bulgarian once again exclaimed. "Peach and
carrot!" Now he was truly distressed. "Abduct investigator not
guess probability alien visit. Say alien here! Different thing!
Not say is likely alien here, or is unlikely alien here. Not
need know how probable, to say alien here. Denisov say alien not
here, fine, he have own opinion. But different thing from
guessing probability."

>>And since we can't know what scientific advantages we might make
>>in the next hundred, thousand, million, or billion years, we're
>>in no position to make assumptions about what technology aliens
>>might have. There might, for all we know, be scientific paradigms
>>that go beyond Einstein, just as Einstein went beyond Isaac
>>Newton. Advanced races might find interstellar travel much easier
>>than we think it is. Or they might not -- but there's no way we
>>can know.

>Well, yes, but if you're going to adhere to this viewpoint you
>might as well say anything or nothing at all. You might also ask
>yourself, while you're at it, if they're so goddammed advanced
>then what could they possibly need or want from us at all? Why
>would they friggin' bother?

>Let's concede that they _are_ a billion years in advance of us.
>(Which is where you want to have your cake and consume it, too.)
>Having now conquered interstellar travel in that interval, where
>else would they be scientifically deficient? What _possible_
>interest could they have in us at all, let alone some sort of
>cosmic "need", never mind a sharing of environmental concerns? A
>billion years headstart (which is a pretty long piece of time by
>anyone's standard) and they still haven't figured out how to
>plug a planetary ozone hole, engineer their own genetic code, or
>improve on the Prime Directive? The Bulgarians from Outer Space
>(BOS) still need our puny outdated sperm and ova?

"Red fish! Red fish!" the Bulgarian cried, upon reading further.
Of course he meant "red herring," but I wasn't about to correct
him, not even in New York City, home of millions of people
descended from Jewish immigrants, who (like my own older
relatives) all loved herring.

"You not say abduct aliens, even if real, are billion year
advanced," he continued, now in a calmer, more reasonable tone.
"Maybe thousand year, ten thousand year. Nobody know."

And he added something that showed he himself reads The
Anomalist. "You already say in Denisov own fine journal,
Anomalist, that maybe science not go in straight line. Maybe
alien discover technology not work sometimes, need older way,
use actual sperm, also egg. Even human find that now. Fake food,
like Tang drink, not taste so good, still grow real food from
tree and soil. Denisov not read own magazine!

"But if talk about alien, advanced billion years, can only
guess. Denisov silly, think he know what billion-year alien can
do."

And with that, the charming -- and, let me once again stress,
urbane, despite his accent -- Bulgarian took his leave of me,
since he'd already made himself late for lunch. He walked off
down the street, still shaking his head about the madcap
"Denisov." I could hear him muttering, "Peach and carrot! Red
fish! Apple and pear!"

Greg Sandow







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   Apr > Apr 6

                     BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!

From: Mike Wootten <mwootten@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:53:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 20:45:57 -0400
Subject: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!


A BUFORA-Watch Special

BUFORA Crucified At Easter!
Egg on face once again!
No resurrection possible!
Council said to be cross !

Press Officer resigns!
Director of Research resigns!

In a dramatic turn of events two of BUFORA's most active, key
figures have resigned, leaving BUFORA once again up the far
reaches of an effluent channel with no visible means of
propulsion.

Gloria Dixon, BUFORAs Director of Investigations for several
years, and Dr. David Clarke, their Press Officer, have both
resigned on this Easter weekend.

The reasons for these resignations are many but stem
fundamentally from BUFORA Council s decision to allow Max Burns
to spread disinformation, libel and lies about the so-called
Sheffield Case.

BUFORA Council wisely prevented Max Burns from speaking last
year. This followed Burns allegations that:

* A pilot had been killed after being shot down by a UFO

and

*  That a serving member of the RAF had picked the surviving
navigator up late at night in the Peak District.

At that time Burns could not provide one shred on non-anecdotal
evidence to back the first claim up. His second claim was
vigorously denied by the alleged witness who was furious that
Max had distorted his words. As a result of this the witness s
employment has been put at risk.

This situation has not changed. Burns has _no_ new evidence. Yet
due to internal manipulation and politiking within BUFORA - to
which only a select band of Council members were privy, Burns
lecture for June 1999 has been forced through on a free speech
ticket.

BUFORA big-wig John Spencer went so far as to say that
preventing Burns from speaking was the first step on the road to
facism. This clearly shows the ethical corruption which lies at
the core of BUFORA management.

Burns has _had_ free speech both on the Internet and in magazine
articles. His sensational and libellous rubbish has merely
cheapened the subject. BUFORA Council's support for this man is
puzzling, not least in the light of their enthusiasm to promote
other hoaxes and scams such as the Ray Santilli Alien Autopsy
film.

But, as the old saying goes, If you plant ice you gonna harvest
wind.

Attempts to reason with key members of Council via internet
forums have been met with that most redundant of BUFORA tools
silence.

Using a corporate 'find em, fool em, forget em policy' BUFORA
has lost members and now officers and Council members over this
issue.

Their Chairman Steve Gamble refuses to discuss the matter with
anyone other than the small coterie of friends who actually run
BUFORA.

John Spencer - architect of this inner circle made a feeble
attempt to justify BUFORA's actions which was received with
outright hilarity from other BUFORA members and ufological
luminaries such as John Rimmer and Peter Brookesmith.

Ex-BUFORA member Andy Roberts put it in a nutshell when he
replied:

"Let's go through it again for the hard of thinking."

* Max's free speech is _not_ being supressed. He has had his
fair share via the internet and various magazines. _But_ - It is
patently obvious that he lies/invents witnesses/evidence. We can
_prove_ that.

Should BUFORA should give a platform to someone who distorts and
manipulates evidence?

* We can _prove_ he has sent hate mail to a number of
researchers under email pseudonyms.

  - Should BUFORA give a platform to someone who harrasses (in
secret) other ufologists?

* We can _prove_ that Dave's research into the case is
_factually_ correct. We can _prove_ that Max's isn't.

  - Should BUFORA give a platform to someone
who is known to be _factually_ wrong?

If the answer to all those questions is 'yes' then I rest my
valise and BUFORA might as well throw open its doors to any
nutcase with a theory......ah, I've realised the flaw in my
argument here, it already does.

Well perhaps the time is now for it to stop doing so, to prove
it can actually make a decision for the _good_ of ufology and
for the _factual_ representation of UFO cases.

BUFORA have wittered long and hard over the years for witness
confidentiality and all that nonsense. Very admirable. Yet here
they are giving a platform to Max Burns who has implicated a
serving RAF officer in his fantasies, causing him to almost lose
his job?

Max has smeared this guy's name across the internet and will do
so at the lecture. He does not have permission to do this. But
of course BUFORA hypocrisy says that it's ok to breach witness
confidentiality when its Mad Max doing it.

The fact is that if BUFORA is so knicker-twisted about witness
confidentiality they should not give a platform to _anyone_ who
breaches it.

Many other ex BUFORA members hold similar views.

BUFORA is a waste of time and space. It is corrupt throughout.
Whatever its pretensions to democracy, it is run by two or three
people at most who manipulate other Council Members according to
their own hidden ufological agenda. Which is basically to stay
in power at BUFORA and call themselves silly titles.

In recent years due to their Find 'Em.... maxim BUFORA has lost
numerous ufological researchers.

Here's just a few researchers who now languish in BUFORA's
Ex-Files:

Jenny Randles, Paul Fuller, Mike Wootten, Tim Matthews, Andy
Roberts and John Heptonstall have all set sail for fairer
shores.

Even cash-cow Philip Mantle fell afoul of the long knives.

Now, with the loss of Gloria Dixon and Dr David Clarke the
Association remains little more than a sideshow in the
ufological circus.

At least two of the people booked for BUFORA lectures in the
99/00 season have also withdrawn their support for BUFORA
following these resignations.

Tim Matthews, author of UFO Revelation and the country's leading
expert on military black-projects has withdrawn from the lecture
programme in support of Gloria and Dave. Andy Roberts has also
cancelled his lecture in disgust at the way BUFORA Council has
allowed itself to be manipulated by hucksters- again.

It is also likely that other resignations will follow within
the next few days.

It is thought that, as usual, BUFORA Council have their head so
far up their... sorry, in the sand that they will barely notice
Gloria and Dave leaving. In BUFORA, everyone and everything is
expendable. Except the cabal which runs the Association.

BUFORA's new lecture organiser and Council member Malcolm
Robinson has also issued a list of future BUFORA lecture
speakers which includes the barrel scrapings of UK ufology such
as Arthur Tomlinson.

Rather than searching for any truths behind UFO reports BUFORA
Council would be better served if they started a serious hunt
for the plot they lost years ago.

Rather than take a firm, critical, scientific stance BUFORA have
ignored the wishes of Council members and key players in the
organisation and gone for popular ufology.

So once again BUFORA's crimes and misdemeanours have caught up
with it. It's happened before and it will happen again until you
cease to support it.

Organisations such as BUFORA are unnecessary. In its forty years
BUFORA has accomplished very little. The best ufology - as
Jacques Vallee has said - is done by motivated individuals and
small groups.

No titles, no power, no egos.

Next weekend sees yet another interminable BUFORA Annual general
Meeting. BUFORA Council members have ordered a special stock of
wool for the event and will be busily engaged in pulling it over
members eyes.

If you are a BUFORA member reading this we suggest you attend
and question them closely about matters raised here and in
previous issues of BUFORA Watch. You will, of course, be fobbed
off with platitudes and half-baked trivialties. Don t be fooled!

A new forum for serious. sceptical ufology will shortly be
announced via this list.

Watch this space!






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   Apr > Apr 6

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:20:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 20:51:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:08:39 -0400

>Let's suppose, hypothetically of course, that Mark Cashman got
>caught in some intellectual fraud regarding a UFO case.  Let's
>suppose that it was proven beyond any doubt that Mark Cashman
>"cheated" in the most outrageous way with a case (I let you
>imagine the details).

>My 2 cents that Mark would loose ALL credibility in the eyes of
>the sane UFO field which regards him as a thorough and honest
>investigator.

I certainly hope so, since, given my previous public statements,
I'd have to throw myself out of the field.

>how it can be possible that people, who
>have in the past committed frauds in regards of UFO cases, still
>get freaking credit for hitting the target in other cases in
>ufology.

In real science, if you screw with the data once, that's
supposed to be the end. No one can trust you. Ever.

That's why I don't take certain people seriously. I don't have
the time to reinvestigate every case they make claims on. I have
to go on the fact that, in general, they have been shown to be
unreliable. Just as I put no credence in Greer, even though he
may hit a nugget of truth once in a while, I also put no
credence in Klass - because I don't have the time to determine
whether or not he is distorting evidence or physical law to
force fit a case.

>How is it that serious ufologists have to walk the razor edge
>and can loose everything on a bad day?  How is it that other
>objective skeptic oxymorons NEVER loose credibility, EVEN when
>it has been proven without a shadow of a doubt that they have
>deliberately falsified the data to serve an obscure purpose
that >can only be disinformation?

Having never seen a debate among the community we usually refer
to as skeptics/debunkers (they call themselves "skeptics" BTW,
so please, no arguing about terms) about such practices among
their own, I can hardly imagine who would do the censuring
except us.

Of course, they would, with justice, argue that we don't do
enough house cleaning either. As I've pointed out elsewhere, at
least among ufologists, an institutional infrastructure to deny
publication to the nuts and the liars is just not available to
us.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------






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   Apr > Apr 6

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:57:43 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 20:59:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:15:35 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:02:58 -0400
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:36:57 +0100
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>><snip>

>>>I know it's a hopeless question, and Serge Salvaille has
>>>specifically ruled himself out from answering it, but I'll try
>>>again: can we have a list of the ten UFO cases giving the best
>>>evidence for an extraterrestrial origin for the UFO phenomenon?.

>>>I won't hold my breath.

>>John seems to forget that we went through this exercise a number
>>of months ago - in two ways. 1) Lists of cases were advanced.
>>and 2) The nature of the provability of the ETH was discussed,
>>and it did not include the "10 case" strawman.

>>John also seems to hold the odd idea that failing to prove the
>>ETH renders the whole phenomenon moot.

>I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that I
>think that if one is unable to prove the ETH then the UFO
>phenomenon is not worthy of study? This is obviously not the
>case, otherwise why would I be spending my time publishing a
>magazine and wearing my fingertips away replying to these
>postings? My dictionary defines "moot" as "debatable" or
>"discussion of a hypothetical case", in which case I certainly
>think the whole phenomenon is "moot" - isn't that the whole
>point of this debate and discussion forum?

>>As he and most of the
>>readers on this list know, while I am not an ETH proponent, I am
>>an OEH (Objective Existence Hypothesis) proponent. Objective
>>existence is the most parsimonious explanation of a phenomenon
>>whose many highest quality cases include the hundreds in the
>>Project 1947 EM Effects catalog, the BUFORA and CUFOS vehicle
>>interference studies, the Schuessler catalog of medical effects
>>from UFOs and the Phillips Physical Trace catalog.

>Yes, we did go through this a few months ago, but only one
>person came up with a list of ten cases. Rather more replies
>were in the nature of Mark Cashman's response above; that there
>were "hundreds" of cases which could not be explained in mundane
>terms and so must represent some novel (if not necessarily
>extraterrestrial) phenomenon. Does Mark Cashman think that
>_every_one_ of the cases in the BUFORA, CUFOS, Phillips, etc.,
>catalogues has been so thoroughly investigated at source that
>all more parsimonious explanations can be ruled out? Surely not!
>No, he simply thinks that because lots and lots of people have
>been unable to come up with plausible explanations for lots and
>lots of cases, this somehow proves that a novel and previously
>unknown object is present.

>Nevertheless I do give credit to Mr Cashman for coming up with a
>list of cases claimed to be evidential for a physical phenomenon
>- although not indicative of an extraterrestrial origin, which
>is what I asked for - and I am sure that we will take a longer
>look at some of them in Magonia or the Monthly Supplement.


I hate  to jump into such a learned discussion, but would like
to suggest that John and others read Dr. James E. McDonald's
"Statement on UFOs" to the House Subcommittee on Sciece and
Astronautics, July 29, l968.

The paper ($10.00postpaid from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME
04730-0958) is 71 pages long, has data on 41 cases carefully
evaluated by Jim whose specialty was Upper atmosphere physics.

It is clear that trained observers were observing manufactured
objects behaving in ways that we Earthlings could not duplicate
at the time, or we would 31 years later be building them instead
of F-16s, F117s etc.

If they weren't built here on Earth, they were built elsewhere -
hence are of ET origin... regardless of whether they warp space
and time to get here or use other yet to be discovered
technologies.

Here is a quote from a case (I opened the volume at random)
p.46:

"According to an official case-summary (Ref. 7, Rept. 10), two
airmen in an F-94 "made visual and radar contact with a large,
round white object larger than any known type of aircraft" near
1915 PST on 12/10/52 near Odessa (WA). The radar operator in the
F-94 had airborne radar contact with the object for 15 minutes,
and during the same interval, ground radar was also tracking it.
The summary states that "the object appeared to be level with
the intercepting F-94 at 26,000-27,000 feet and it pointed out
that " a dim reddish white light came from the object as it
hovered, reversed direction almost instantaneously and then
disappeared"....

Please note that the ET explanation doesn't tell us from whence
cometh the UFO, except not from here.

It tells us nothing about how it got here, what its pilots want,
where it is going etc., etc.

Note this was 47 years ago. and there is another page in Jim's
discusson about this case in which he destroys
Menzel's"scientific" explanation.

Lists be damned.

Stan Friedman






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   Apr > Apr 6

                     Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:41:22 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 21:16:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy

>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:53:37 EDT
>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:10:55 +0200
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it>
>>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's
>>Samples in Italy

<snip>

>>No wonder Corrado might have confirmed any "ET" nature
>>of any 0.0+% of anything: since 1984, he's been claiming the
>>Ubatuba fragments were positively shown to contain
>>non-terrestrial isotopes. Didn't you ever read that in the
>>known literature about that case? You hadn't asked Malanga
>>(whom also publicly said that J. Vallee had intentionally
>>"lost" the only remaining Ubatuba sample).

>Didn't you read the outstanding book of Paul Hill which shows
>convincingly that, yes, the Ubatuba samples were extraordinary?
>And that, possibly, some of them had been destroyed purposely.
>As for Vallee, it's quite a possibility! His excuse : he was
>caught in the middle of a May 68 demonstration and dropped it in
>the gutter. A UFO debris lost by Vallee in a Paris gutter!!

There is an erroneous belief, even among some ufologists, that
the Ubatuba UFO samples no longer exist.

Back in 1957 Dr. Fontes acquired three small samples of a UFO
which allegedly exploded over Brazil in 1957.

Sample #1 was divided into several pieces and was distributed to
researchers Dr. Luisa Maria A. Barbosa and Mr. Elson Teixeira and
also to Major Roberto Caminha of the Brazilian Army and Commander
J.G. Brandao of the Brazilian Navy.

The reports from Dr. Barbosa and Mr. Teixeira are on record but
the reports from the Brazilian Army and Navy and their pieces
were never forwarded back to Dr. Fontes. They may still exist if
anyone cares to make a search for them.


Samples #2 and #3 were transferred to APRO, the U.S. based UFO
organization run by the late James and Coral Lorenzen.

Tests were done on these two samples, which still exist, and
their reports are on record too.

In 1997 Dr. Peter A. Sturrock of Stanford University arranged
for Dr. Sam Wang of Vancouver, Canada to determine the isotopic
ratios of Magnesium in a piece of one of these samples.

The results of this test showed that the Magnesium isotope Mg24
(which makes up nearly 80 percent of terrestrial Magnesium) was
nearly absent in the Ubatuba UFO piece that was tested.

Although it is believed that isotopic ratios for a given element
are the same anywhere on Earth, they do in fact vary by up to a
few percentage points, especially for the lighter elements.

The surprising, different isotopic ratios found in the Ubatuba
UFO piece (certainly much larger than the alleged 0.01 or 0.1
percent in the Dr. Wolf's sample), would be impossible to
account through natural causes alone.

We are now waiting for other researchers using different forms
of testing to confirm Dr. Wang's test results.


Four pieces of the original three samples given to Dr. Fontes
and the latest test results are available through Dr. Sturrock.

Nick Balaskas






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   Apr > Apr 6

                                 Re: Behold

From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:00:43 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 21:25:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Behold


>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 00:17:27 -0700
>From: Royce J. Myers III <rjm3@sprintmail.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Behold

>Would like to hear how Bell is going to answer these charges. If
>they prove true, then no serious ufologist will ever want to be
>associated with Bell again. If they prove untrue then Bell has
>what appears to be a nice law suit hand delivered and wrapped
>with a bow.

>Will Bell answer or dodge? Will he sue or will he hide? Stephens
>may be a friggin' nutcase, but charges of being involved in
>pornography are serious. This is not 200 questions that can be
>ignored, but an extremely serious charge.

On

http://members.iquest.net/~wubi/behold/art_bell_documents.html

the fax shown don't prove anything substantive. As the message
traffic shows, there isn't any _proof_ that Art Bell was ever
arrested on these alleged charges.

Someone decided to kick over a big ant hill here. I sure hope
they know what they're doing because it looks to me that unless
they can _prove_ it, they may end up in court on libel charges.

No _serious_ Ufologist would have anything to do with Bell.
Period.

Don





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   Apr > Apr 6

                  Sighting Report Alice Springs - 03-06-99

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:25:44 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 20:07:10 -0400
Subject: Sighting Report Alice Springs - 03-06-99


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian Research Network Hot Line Number
     1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************

Sighting Report Alice Springs

Source: Keith Douglass
Date: 6th 3. 1999
Location: South West of Alice 20klms
Time: 12.05am
Duration of sighting: 1.5 minutes

Sighting Report:

I was out with a group of people doing a night watch for UFOs.
The night sky was clear and the sky was full of star's there
where no clouds or wind.

Then one of the group members saw three balls of light, they
just appeared where there were not as many stars. The person
next to me said, "what are those things," we all looked and I
observed them with our [naked eyes] I then got my binoculars to
have a better look; the balls seemed to be all the same size and
where all round, colour a dull orange. The balls did not really
glow, but appeared to give off there own light, which made them,
stand out from the rest of the star's.

They appeared to be 10 times bigger than any of the stars
surrounding them.

Height: 10 degrees.

Direction: SouthEast, they just hovered then the top 2 faded
then the bottom one faded, they kept their round appearance and
size while fading out. We heard no noise, they had no markings
or protrusions on them.

Thankyou Keith Douglass for sending me the report.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Regards Diane Harrison






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   Apr > Apr 6

                               What Is Strange

From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:31:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:19:03 -0400
Subject: What Is Strange


Source: Robert A.M.Stephens' Web Site

http://members.iquest.net/~wubi/behold/what_is_strange.htm


What is Strange


This is so simple. The claims of the macabre. Just go to Richard
C. Hoagland's page, Art Bell, Mike Bara's lunaranomalies, Keith
Rowland, and so many more.

Need I say more. These assholes have no idea what their pages,
their claims, their amazing clues to our being, look like to
someone coming into this amazing 'field' for the first time from
the outside. To quote Dr. Bruce Cornet, a professional man and a
long time frequenter of this culture, said to me by email, "when
you first enter this scene the feeling immutably comes over you
that you are in a place you should not be."

Amen. Aptly put Dr. Cornet.

When I first entered here, this culture I have now termed
'Strange', trying find a site to post my first report on the
Montana UFO I was amazed. I was actually amazed twice; first was
that I thought it was all a joke. I mean I'm just an average guy
but I do work in and around NASA and aerospace. I have done this
thing for many years---a fifth of a century now. I just know
some things. One of which is NASA isn't a bunch of liars. I took
issue with this first. This arcane nonsense that NASA is lying
about everything and our whole being.

I first tried to write the owner of The Enterprise Mission, who
seemed to be the loudest child of this pathological, sociopathic
lie. I received a terse, rude, chickenshit little email back
from Keith Rowland that the esteemed crap head Hoagland was just
too busy to write.

Hmm.

I should have known then I was in really deep yogurt.

I then decided that I would publicly do what I do in my work;

Dissent.

Oh boy.

This was the absolute wrong thing to do.

See, this place of UFO-Paranormal, Strange as I call it, isn't
so much a 'field of study' as it is a religion. A place to
worship faces on Mars, 19.5 degree vortexes letting asteroids
come down the throat of volcanos and destroying Hawaii, that it
is good to warn people that Washington D.C. is going to nuke
itself, 5 mile tall towers on the Moon, cities on every planet
in the solar system, NASA hiding a couple extra dozen planets
from the rest of us, blowing up its own space craft, and even
UFOs landing on Mountains in Arizona. and none of the above have
ever happened EVER!

And I wanted to ask why?

And I have been shot for it for nearly 6 months, over and over,
without one justification of cause.

But this same culture who embraces this bullshit can not, will
not, ever, tolerate any dissent of query into these claims. If
you do you will be shot. Even the Muslims will ask a few
questions before they chuck you and Brenda out the side of the
commercial airliner. Not so the UFO culture. You ask one itty
bitty question about this culture and boom--you are assailed to
the very core of your being--personal or otherwise.

I was invited onto a radio show hosted by Art Bell, the Pope of
'Strange' since leaving under force the Papalage of the Militia
Movement and its love of hate for that damn 'guvmint'. I was
asked to debate the great charlatan himself Turd Peak Hoagland.
I worked on the 200 questions that would fill the 4 hours. I got
12 minutes while wonder boy Bell and that dipshit Hoagland ran
their mouths about spooks, bad weather, and some phony secret
agent asshole named Tom Bearden and his cool letter about how
he'd be shot if he signed his name to the said letter. On air, I
agreed with the whole thing--the secret letter and all. Whoa! To
this day I'm still alive.

Bullshit. Bellshit.

I asked Hoagy about why he warned Dr. Richard Sauder to leave
this beloved nation's capital since somehow Hoagy had a secret
agent in the pentagon who told Hoagy that Washington was going
to nuke itself. That was my one and only question. Dr. Sauder
verified that the claim was true. But this somehow confused
these two bozos.

Then Bell pulled the plug.

4 months later he is still badmouthing me and that I am a fake
and a liar. Art Bell is a porno trafficker and a certified
asshole. In Cambodia we would have shot this asshole in the back
for being an asshole.

I have and will use just a keyboard, though, gentle readers.

Dissenting and asking why?

There are no Fireballs over Turret Peak.

The Popes of Strange are lying to all of us--about
everything--literally. And getting away with it.

This is strange.

This is strange.

  -- sincerely,
  Robert A.M.Stephens
  NASA Documentation Program
  Stillwater Mills-Aerospace
  KSC-PIB/shuttle/MSF
  406-745-3818
  sti3818@montana.com
  http://198.116.116.10/gallery/arts/samples/.html
  http://members.iquest.net/~wubi/behold/
  <http://198.116.116.10/gallery/arts/samples/.html>






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   Apr > Apr 6

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description

From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:25:24 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 23:03:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description



>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:24:56 -0500
>Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 01:25:12 -0500
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description

><snip>

>In the 'Pendleton, Oregon East Oregonian', on June 26, 1947, Bill
>Bequette reported, "The Boise man, who owns the Great Western
>fire control supply which handled automatic fire fighting
>systems, described the objects as 'flat like a pie pan and
>somewhat bat-shaped'"

>The 'Oregon Journal', June 27, 1947, reported that Arnold, "clung
>stoutly to his story that he saw nine shiny crescent-shaped
>planes or pilotless missiles flying in formation", adding that
>Arnold claimed, "They were half-moon shaped, oval in front and
>convex in the rear".

>Were the unidentified objects which gave birth to 'flying
>saucers' therefore actually 'bat-shaped', 'crescent-shaped' or
>'half-moon shaped'?

>Only the latter description appears to conceivably resemble the
>sketch which Arnold sent to Wright Field in July 1947.

>Did Arnold actually mean quarter-moon, i.e. crescent, shaped?

<snip>

>How can Arnold originally have described 'bat-like' objects, then
>produced a sketch which doesn't resemble one, yet subsequently
>featured in his book the photograph of a 'model' which shows that
>crescent or definitely 'bat-shaped' object?

>A copy of this photograph can be seen on my web site under
>'Flying Saucers - the Genesis'.

>There's a new location for my web site and it's now at URL:

>http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/

>We're aware that Arnold later claimed one of the nine objects was
>different from the others and explained he had never got around
>to clarifying that at the time.


Dear James & List,

I think you're being too critical here to the point of splitting
hairs.  Arnold was clearly struggling with describing something
that took him by surprise, in which 8 objects looked different
from the one, and the overall shape was round or saucer-like but
with an exception of deviation in the rear, and it was all at
the limits of his ability to perceive detail ("so thin I could
barely see them," UP, Pendleton, Ore., June 26, 1947).  Thus
there was plenty of opportunity for confusion and incompleteness
with three different shapes to try to describe to newsmen
wanting to hear sound bites:

(1) Overall shape, round or saucer-like.

(2) Exception to the overall shape, the cutoff in the back with
a crescent or a half-moon shape but with a rounded convex point
or tail, somewhat like a bat, or more like "tadpoles" with "a
little sort of peak at the center of their rear-trailing edges"
(1977 Fate Symposium, pp. 21-22), "semi-circular with a shallow
V-shaped trailing edge" (Portland Oregonian, July 10, 1947).

(3) The lone object which was "darker and of a slightly
different shape" (Coming of the Saucers, 1952) and "its wingspan
seemed a little bit wider" (1977 Fate Symp., p. 22).

There is clearly a continuum of shape from a "quarter moon," or
crescent, to a "half moon," and the crescent is generally
similar to the "bat" except for the convexity or rounded point
in the cutoff at the back.  When Arnold said "bat-shaped" no one
seriously believes he meant there were bat FEET shapes sticking
out of the UFO!

All this seems to be legitimate confusion on Arnold's part in
grappling with the unknown and unexpected.  I have more problems
with the flatout contradiction in Arnold's earliest accounts of
known familiar objects that Arnold used daily for years.  Did he
time the flight of the UFO's with a "STOP WATCH" he took out of
his pocket, or by the "CLOCK" on his aircraft instrument panel?
It is either/or.

DIRECT QUOTE:  "I TOOK OUT my WATCH and checked off one minute
and 42 seconds...."  Chicago Tribune, June 26, 1947 (June 25
interview evidently by phone)

REPORTER'S PARAPHRASE:  "By his PLANE'S CLOCK he timed them at
1:42 minutes...."  Pendleton East Oregonian, June 25, 1947 (June
25 interview which broke the story worldwide)

DIRECT QUOTE:  "... I started clocking them on my sweep second
hand CLOCK.... I looked at my WATCH and it showed one minute and
42 seconds."  Kenneth Arnold on KWRC radio interview, June 26,
1947

DIRECT QUOTE:  ".... I clocked them with a STOP WATCH...."  UP
dispatch, Pendleton, Ore., June 26, 1947 (Norman, Okla.,
Transcript, June 26)

DIRECT QUOTE:  "I remember distinctly that my sweep second hand
on my eight day CLOCK, which is located on my INSTRUMENT
PANEL...."  Kenneth Arnold's report to the Army Air Forces, ca.
July 8, 1947

DIRECT QUOTE:  "... I glanced at the sweep second hand of my
INSTRUMENT CLOCK."  Kenneth Arnold, Coming of the Saucers, 1952

DIRECT QUOTE:  "... I was going to clock their speed with my
twenty-four-hour CLOCK, which has a big-sweep second hand.  It's
on my INSTRUMENT PANEL."  Kenneth Arnold, 1977 Fate Symposium
Proceedings (1980) p. 20.

No one can seriously contend he used BOTH a stopwatch AND his
instrument clock at the same time while trying to watch the
bizarre UFO's AND while still flying a plane!!  Especially since
in nearly 40 years of interviews Arnold NEVER says he had used
TWO timepieces at the same time when he clocked the UFO's.  The
reporters did not misquote Arnold on this point as some of the
contradictions are from direct verbatim quotes of Arnold
including a recorded radio interview (see above).  The weight of
evidence indicates Arnold used his instrument panel clock to
time the UFO flight, and the "stop watch" or "watch" he
purportedly took out of his pocket to do the UFO timing was a
complete fiction.  I cannot see how this could be an honest
confusion over familiar objects in everyday use.  Confusion over
the unknown I can understand.






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 6

                  Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 23:10:20 -0400
Subject: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion


Once again, we must suffer the pathological nonsense of
everyone's favorite fake Navy SEAL and ultimate wannabe NASA/NRO
insider, the inimtable Robert A.M. Stephens. As an illustration
of how far he will go to deliver his unique brand of
technobabble disinformation, I submit the following page from
his new web site.

The page ostensibly shows some super-secret reconnaisance
satellite called "Silver Veil." Particularly notice the first
illustration titled "SV OV-Prime." Scroll to the bottom of the
page where an asterisk denotes something Stephens calls a
"Femptophoton Analysis Module." To quote from Stephens's site,
"Faster than the speed of light (+Sol) detector and analysis
module for intruder assessment requiring extraordinary
reconnaissnace interpretation," whatever the hell that's
supposed to mean.

First off, nothing travels faster than light. Physics 101,
moron. So what is this fictional "Faster than the speed of
light (+Sol) detector and analysis module" supposed to be
measuring or detecting? This guy has spent too much time up in
the Big Sky Country. I really wish people in the ufological
community would stop giving this any attention at all.

Maybe if we all just ignore, he'll go away.

http://members.iquest.net/%7Ewubi/behold/silver_veil.html
--
*****************************************************************
"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government?
When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory.
The federal government is our servant, not our master!"

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep
and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
against tyranny in government."

--- Thomas Jefferson
*****************************************************************






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   Apr > Apr 6

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:01:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 23:43:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


A discombobulated, unfinished version of the following post just
went on UpDates, much to my surprise.  (I'm also surprised the
unfinished version made it past EBK's normally eagle eyes.) This
was the result of my accidentally hitting the "Send" rather than
the "Save" button while I was composing it.

 [Sorry David - your posts don't usually need any 'tweaking'.
  At the time I was in pre-show prep mode, trying to get mail
  out and beat back moving-boxes. My intention was 'post now,
  read later'... the boxes are winning --ebk]

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:41:42 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:21:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Kraus vs. Friedman


>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:53:15 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

<snip>

>This last point gets to the heart of the matter. The general
>issue of alien visitation is so a prior ludicrous, on the basis
>of any sound physical reasoning, that any claim that it has
>actually happened would have to meet the strongest skepticism
>and scrutiny.

Translation: "Sound physical reasoning" means his assumptions
and understanding. He personally can't understand how it can be
done, ergo, it must be impossible. Since it is impossible, no
need to look at any evidence to the contrary.

>There are many strange things in the world, but as the

>physicist Richard Feynman used to point out, scientists only
>have a finite amount of time to work on projects. So they
>choose exciting projects, but more important they work on things
>which are likely to have some possibility of being right. The
>reason that most people, such as myself, don't spend time
>investigating each detailed claim is that the a priori
>probability that it is true is almost zero.... Thus, I cannot
>prove that the claims are false, I can just say that I expect
>that they are... and each time I see something like the
>purported hard evidence, I find it isn't.

It is quite evident that from his debate with Stanton Friedman,
Krauss has made no real effort to look at _any_ of the evidence.
The extent of Kraus' research into UFOs seems to be watching a
popularized TV special during sweeps week that purported to
offer hard evidence, but generally did a very poor job of
presenting it.  That's like dismissing genetic engineering and
paleontology because of the way they were portrayed in Jurassic
Park.

A good example of Krauss' arrogance and ignorance is the
following statement:

>The point is that any explanation, no matter how implausible,
>of the claims, is more plausible than ascribing them to alien
>visitation.

That's a real classic line which is the exact antithesis of what
science is really about.

>Thus, as long as there is any other explanation which remains
>equally, or more plausible, why should I, or anyone jump to
>the conclusion that aliens are involved.

So let's example the "logic" here. Krauss "knows" that alien
visitation is "impossible" (supposedly "proven" by his
"irrefutable" calculations, but actually a house-of-cards made
up of many questionable assumptions).  By simply defining such
visitation a priori as impossible, he is thus able to declare
that "any explanation, no matter how implausible" is better than
the ETH.

That's an extraordinarily fatuous and stupid statement.
Unfortunately it also seems to reflect the slippery and faulty
"logic" of many UFO debunkers.  It's a closed loop, circular
logic system admitting nothing from the outside. No matter how
incredibly implausible their explanations might be, they believe
they are to be preferred to the possibility of alien visitation.
Hand in hand with such logic is a denial that there is any
evidence at all or statements that there is no need to spend any
time looking at evidence since it is obviously a waste of time.

A true skeptical scientific statement would be that they think
alien visitation is highly improbable, but explanations for very
puzzling UFO cases must nonetheless be plausible and be a
reasonable fit to the data.  That also means paying attention to
the actual data and not inventing, distorting, or ignoring it.

'Nuff said for now.  I'll have another post in a day or two
which demonstrates how the very knowledgeable but nonetheless
fallable Prof. Krauss screwed up badly in one of his statements
on physics.  This has to do with whether it is possible to
protect occupants from the effects of high accelerations using
strong magnetic fields.  Kraus said there was absolutely no way
this could be done.  But, in fact, there is a very simple
physical principle which permits one to do just that.

Hint:  Two words -- floating frogs.

More real soon.

David Rudiak

---






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 6

              Krauss' Faulty Physics [was: Friedman vs. Krauss

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:24:11 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 23:45:07 -0400
Subject: Krauss' Faulty Physics [was: Friedman vs. Krauss


The following exchange occurred between Jeff Rense and Dr.
Lawrence Kraus on the Rense show during the debate between Kraus
and Stanton Friedman.

Rense mentioned a recent patent by Ernest Shearing (sp?) for
passenger protection in an electromagnetically propelled
vehicle.  The passenger would be surrounded by a superconductor
(SC), which would exclude any electromagnetic fields from the
interior.  In addition, the SC shield would be surrounded by SC
magnets, which Shearing said would also provide protection
against the effects of high acceleration or high gravity fields
by induction of eddy currents in the SC walls.

This was Kraus' response:

"Until it got to gravity, it didn't sound completely crazy.
Indeed, superconductors do a very good job of shielding against
magnetic fields.  Magnetic fields, of course, are not very
strong at all.  In the region of the Earth we don't use them
very much for propulsion.  But gravity fields don't produce any
currents and aren't shielded by anything superconducting, and
therefore, a superconductor doesn't shield you against any type
of gravitational acceleration in any way, shape, or form."

Despite Dr. Kraus' flippant dismissal, he is simply dead wrong
about this.

Here's another example of where Kraus says that he personally
can't think of how something could be done, ergo it's
impossible.  There is no way to protect against high
accelerations, he thinks, at least not in his physics.  Kraus
uses this as one of his lynchpin arguments the existence of
UFOs, saying there is no way they could execute the high
accelerations reported without squashing any occupants.  (Note
the assumption in his argument that craft exhibiting such
accelerations are necessarily manned by biological beings, but
let's ignore this for now.)

So how can large magnetic fields protect against high
accelerations?  It doesn't require any new principles of physics
or speculation about 24th Star Trek physics or unknown
antigravity fields.

The principle that could make it possible is diamagnetism.
Although most people are familiar with how a magnet will
strongly attract materials made of iron (ferromagnetism), most
people are unaware that magnets actually weakly repel most
materials.  That's diamagnetism.

The diamagnetic force is approximately proportional to the
square of the magnetic field. (Strictly speaking it is
proportional to the product of the magnetic field and the field
gradient, or spatial rate of change of the field.  But the field
gradient is itself proportional to the field.  Hence,
diamagnetism goes as the square of the field.)

Therefore increasing the field 10 times increases the
diamagnetic force 100 fold.  This strong dependency on field
becomes very important when we start talking about using
diamagnetism as an "inertial dampener."

Magnetic field strength is measured in units of Tesla or Gauss.
One Tesla is 10,000 gauss.  In everyday life, magnetic fields
are best expressed in units of gauss.  The Earth's magnetic
field is on the order of half a gauss.  A refrigerator magnet
may be on the order of 100 gauss.

Tesla size magnets, on the other hand, are generally found in
specialized laboratory applications.  E.g., superconducting
magnets used in magnetic resonance imagers are on the order of 2
Tesla in strength.  To give an appreciation of the relative
order of magnitude differences, if the Earth's magnetic field
were a quarter, an MRI magnet would be $10,000.

It is only when one gets into the Tesla range of magnetic field
strength that diamagnetic effects become significant.  Remember,
the effects go up approximately as the square of the field.  The
MRI SC magnet might be stronger by a factor of 100 than a
refrigerator magnet, but the diamagnetic force it can generate
will be approximately 10,000 times greater.

About two years ago, a rather dramatic demonstration of
diamagnetic effects appeared on the Net and media in the form of
the so-called floating frog experiment.  A very strong 12 Tesla
laboratory SC magnet was used to levitate small creatures such
as frogs, fish, etc.  Levitation depended on the principle of
diamagnetism, in particular the diamagnetic properties of water
in the animals.

I even remember at the time one physicist on Usenet who stated
that it must be a hoax, that he didn't know of any way in which
a magnetic field could do such things.

Sound familiar?

Why was this experiment significant?  Because it demonstrated
that with sufficiently strong magnetic fields, one could indeed
cancel the effects of gravity, not through any sort of
antigravity shielding, but by generating an opposing diamagnetic
force on molecules throughout the body of the animal.  The
animal is then practically in a zero gravity state.

If the magnet could be scaled up in size to accomodate a human
being, then human beings could be levitated in exactly the same
way.

If the field strength could be likewise scaled up by a factor of
10, then the resulting diamagnetic force would be 100 times
greater, sufficient to cancel a 100 g gravitational field or 100
g's of acceleration, what Kraus claims couldn't be done "in any
way, shape, or form."

SC magnets this large or strong do not exist now, but there is
certainly no law of physics that says they might not exist in
the future.  So this is currently a thought experiment.  If you
can make magnets sufficiently strong (only about an order of
magnitude greater than what we have now) then you can do in
principle what Kraus arrogantly claimed was impossible.
"Impossible" in Kraus' vocabulary, means procluded by
fundamental laws of physics.  That isn't the situation here.

Now some caveats on this wonderful "inertial dampener."  It
doesn't perfectly cancel inertial forces from acceleration.
First of all, the forces on all molecules in even a uniform body
are not exactly equal.  If one imagines a blob of water in front
of a magnet, the molecules furthest from the magnet will feel a
weaker diamagnetic force than those closer to the magnet.  If
you accelerate a spacecraft with the blob of water, the magnet,
if of sufficient strength, will create an equal acceleration on
the water blob and keep it from going splat on the back wall.
But the blob will flatten some because of uneven acceleration
throughout the volume.  If this were an astronaut, he/she will
still feel inertial forces, but they will be substantially less
than in an unprotected situation.

Secondly, biological organisms, while mostly made of water, are
made of many other molecules as well.  Most of these are
diamagnetic, but not equally diamagnetic.  The calcium in your
bones or proteins in your cells are not repelled by an amount
equal to the water in your body.  Other molecules such as oxygen
are actually weakly attracted by magnetic fields (paramagnetic).
Any iron in your body (such as the haemoglobin in your blood),
will be strongly attracted.

How serious a problem these differential forces might be I
cannot say.  It is a very complicated situation.  If mostly at
the microscopic level, they may not be too serious.  But if they
occur at the macroscopic level, they could be very serious
indeed.  You don't want your skeleton and guts moving in
opposite directions.  Needless to say, anybody with a steel
plate in their head need not book a ticket on our high
acceleration craft with magnetic inertial dampeners, unless they
like the added thrill of having the plate pulled right out of
their skull.

Secondary potential problems would be the production of induced
eddy currents in the body that cause heating and possible nerve
stimulation.  Fortunately, my calculations show that these are
probably managable.

For several years I worked in magnetic nerve stimulation.
Typically a magnetic field on the order of 1 Tesla pulsed in
about 100 microseconds is sufficient to stimulate peripheral
motor nerves (these are common design parameters for magnetic
nerve stimulators).  If you use magnetic fields 100 times
stronger than this to protect against, say, a 100 g sharp turn,
then to compensate and prevent adverse nerve stimulation, you
need to build up the fields over a longer period of time to keep
the stimulation subthreshold.  E.g., executing the hi-g turn in
about 1/10 second and building up the anti-inertial magnetic
field in the same period of time instead of 100 microseconds,
will do the trick.

Body heating is also not a serious problem as long as the
inertial magnets aren't repeatedly pulsed over a prolonged
period of time.

I would like to repeat that this magnetic "inertial dampener" is
currently a thought experiment.  It is something that could _in
principle_ be built and work, i.e., it violates no laws of
physics, contrary to Prof. Kraus' statements.  We can't engineer
it now in any practical way, but that doesn't proclude one from
being built in the future when we may have better
superconducting materials.

As Stanton Friedman repeatedly tried to point out in his debate
with Kraus, your conclusions are only as good as your
assumptions.  Kraus is obviously making a number of assumptions,
some of them rooted in hard physics, others nothing but
emotional gut-level proclamations masquarading as "scientific,"
to proclaim that alien visitation is literally impossible, or so
highly improbable as to not even be worthy of consideration.

But are his assumptions correct, or would other assumptions
produce quite a different result?  In this post, I have examined
his assumption that there is no known physics that could protect
against the inertial forces of acceleration.  When presented
with the idea that maybe strong magnetic fields could do this,
he flippantly dismissed with the statement,  "a superconductor
doesn't shield you against any type of gravitational
acceleration in any way, shape, or form."

Turns out he was wrong here, wasn't he?  What else might the
brilliant astrophysicist be wrong about?

To his credit, Kraus agreed to a public debate on the topic,
something that Carl Sagan refused to do.  Unfortunately, a radio
program is not a good forum in which to debate technical details
(just like a somewhat tabloid TV program during sweeps week is
not a good forum to present the best UFO evidence).  Would Prof.
Kraus agree to a written forum such as Updates in which his
assumptions and declarations can be subject to critical
scrutiny?  It won't be the same as writing snide hit pieces in
the New York Times about the Strieber program.  Kraus would have
to answer some hard-ball criticism from knowledgable people.

If Kraus demands scientific peer review of UFO evidence before
it is even worthy of his consideration, why shouldn't he be
subject to similar peer review for his UFO debunking?  What's
saucer for the goose is saucer for the gander.

Believe it or not, I actually had an overall favorable
impression of Kraus.  He seems like a decent fellow, not some
sociopathic debunker, obviously very bright, but also highly
prejudice and ill-informed when it comes to the subject of UFOs,
but perhaps willing to learn.  Agreeing to a public debate was
one example of that.  He also made statements that he has had
his mind changed in the past (at least in topics physics
related) by good data properly presented.

If put under the hot lights and forced to defend his many
statements debunking UFOs, he might discover his arguments are
not so writ in stone as he previously thought.  He screwed up
big time with his statement that inertial dampening is
impossible.  That already eviscerates other arguments he has
advanced against the impossibility of manned hi-g UFO maneuvers
or acceleration.

Maybe he'll discover after such a debate, that UFOs don't
necessarily violate any laws of physics and that alien
visitation isn't impossible or highly improbable after all.

David Rudiak






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 6

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:53:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 23:55:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate



With the Duke's compliments:

>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:11:43 EDT
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>To: updates@globalserve.net


Before going on to anything else I must note suffering a degree
of confusion at Brad Sparks's responding to a post on UpDates
with one on PJ-47, and vice-versa, sometimes out of the blue, so
members of one list may have no idea of the context, etc of the
debate. I know there is a lot of overlap between the two lists,
but it does help in the Bandwidth & General Hard Drive
Department, as well as being a matter of courtesy, if we can
stick to the one list while shewing through a given thread.
Ergo, this reply goes to UpDates, which is where the discussion
started.

>COMMENTS: We can excuse Brookesmith's ill-informed opinion as
>that of a latecomer to the field of UFO research. (&c &c)

Let's excuse Brad's ill-informed opinion as that of a latecomer
to UFO UpDates. I was referring to the last time pro-ETH
ufologists were asked to come up with their Top Ten "suggestive"
cases _on_this_List_. Some absolutely refused, calling the idea
various rude names. The usual suspects waved arms. And so on.

I shall not celebrate come the Spring of next year when the 20th
anniversary of my acquaintance of this weird field falls.

I possess both the Vallee and Story books that Brad cites and
have done for some years. One is 35 years old, the other 18 years
old. The Condon report (also on my shelves) is 30 years old this
year. If there were anything to the ETH, one could at least hope
that in the intervening years some few cases or other might have
outboggled anything in those studies (tho' I wouldn't elevate the
Story volume that high). So the request for current opinion isn't
entirely fatuous.

Indeed it might be said to be entirely necessary to have recent
cases to consider: the older ones become less and less amenable
to (re)investigation and (re)evaluation, as witnesses have the
bad grace to snuff it, contemporaneous records vanish, and so on.
This was a point also implied by the Sturrock panel, RIP.

>COMMENTS:  Excuse me but we are not talking about _literary_
>_interpretations_ of UFO cases but _scientific_investigations_
>that have overturned and devastatingly refuted the BEST
>investigations ever put forward by UFO skeptics.

Nor am I. In part I was freewheeling around the thought put more
plainly above. Without, I hope, being misconstrued as questioning
the integrity of Brad's analysis, his re-investigation of the
RB-47 case surely had to beware of the years that had passed and
their effect. Klass too was aware of the problem. The
difficulties get considerably worse in cases like Roswell.

In part I was also needling Jerome Clark over his own lack of
commitment to his own arguments. If Brad wants to consider
Jerome's work as "literary interpretations" and Jerome as a
closet (and by inference guilt-ridden) literary critic in the
dappled world of ufology, that is fine by me. It would at least
explain some of his more spectacular apoplexies at the PSH -
which, as we've just seen, does not even have to be mentioned to
release a fine spray of irrelevant blather, but which so often
deals in narrative details.

>It is incumbent on skeptics to tackle the unexplained best UFO
>cases on these lists published by the pre-eminent Jacques
>Vallee in 1966 and by Ron Story and Richard Greenwell in 1981.

Not at all. Of course it's gratifying to have an explanation, but
it's not obligatory. Skeptics are obliged to do no more than
demonstrate the flaws in the data and their interpretation by
True Believers. This is particularly true of the ETH, which
essentially goes from "unexplained" to "alien presence" in one
leap, often without even considering (let alone demolishing)
psychosocial factors.

>It is also obligatory that skeptics explain the _many_
>UFO cases that their own "anti-UFO" side, the Condon Committee,
>could not explain.

I may as well raise a few more hackles by pointing out that
Menzel and Taves already did. Now, anyone may disagree with their
interpretations and their use of the data, in some instances; but
surely no one of good faith can disagree with their comments on
numerous cases that are simply too vaguely reported to be
meaningful of anything at all.

Nonetheless, the previous point remains. It's up to believers to
demonstrate what justifies the ETH in these cases. An unexplained
event is just that. After all, a weird rattle somewhere in the
the car that even the best mechanics can't explain doesn't prove
polts are at work, or the presence of my father's ghost in the
back seat.

Finally, I have no difficulty at all with what Mark Cashman
calls "the OEH (Objective Existence Hypothesis)". I doubt there
is a single cause for UFO sightings and experiences. Were any
fully-agreed-upon-by-the-grandest-fromages list of Top Ten
Strangest Cases to arise, and were they by some miracle all to
be solved with indisputably watertight prosaic explanations, I'd
be amazed if those explanations were all the same. Thus I look
askance at the blanket conclusions of, say, a Steuart Campbell.

But I wasn't talking about that. I was talking, however, about
the ETH, and about Jerome Clark's tendencies to irrelevance, so
engagingly displayed yet again, along with a humor yet more
laborious than Phil Klass's and a very interesting example of the
reconstructive nature of memory, in his reply; which also
disappointed his many fans by his noting only one of my many
deliberate errors; oh well. So Brad and I probably have less to
argue about, and more to discuss, than he may have thought when
he wrote his post.

On a purely technical matter I'm curious to know why Brad refers
to the Trent pix as "stereo", when they weren't taken
simultaneously, let alone by a two-lens camera.

best wishes
Piewacket D. Macbeth
Dunsinane Forester






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 6

                                  Hoax Site

From: Drew Williamson <werd@interlog.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:03:06 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 23:59:10 -0400
Subject: Hoax Site


List members,

For those of you who are interested in hoaxes you might want to
check out the following site. It includes UFOs, amongst Piltdown
Man, the Lochness Monster, etc.

www.ememories.com/hoax






   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 7

                       Pulsar Newsletter - Issue No. 4

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:28:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 00:19:04 -0400
Subject: Pulsar Newsletter - Issue No. 4


Pulsar Newsletter - Issue No. 4


Welcome to the latest issue of the newsletter.


CONTENTS

1. The Bentwaters and Woodbridge Incidents.

This newsletter is concerned with only one topic - recent
developments in the RAF Bentwaters/RAF Woodbridge case.


                      O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O


The Bentwaters and Woodbridge Incidents.

The events which occurred just after Christmas 1980 at the
twin-base complex of RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge in
Suffolk, England, are one of the UK's most enduring mysteries.

The American bases located on British soil were an important
component of NATO's front-line defences.

At approximately 3 a.m. on the morning of 26 December, 1980, a
security patrol at the 'east gate' sentry point on RAF
Woodbridge, noticed unfamiliar lights in Rendlesham forest,
which adjoined the Woodbridge base.

The ensuing investigation by Staff-Sergeant (SSgt) Jim
Penniston, Airman 1st Class John Burroughs and Airman Ed
Cabansag, all with the 81st Security Police Squadron (SPS),
led to later publicised claims from Burroughs and Penniston
that they had encountered an unidentified object which
manoeuvred through the forest.

During the late evening and early hours of 27th/28th December,
further reports of 'strange lights' resulted in the Deputy
Base Commander, Lieutenant-Colonel Charles Halt, forming a
team to investigate.

Amongst those known to have accompanied Halt were Lieutenant
Bruce Englund, the Duty Flight Lieutenant, Sergeant Monroe
Nevilles from Disaster Preparedness Operations and Master-
Sergeant [MSgt] Bobby Ball, a shift commander from the 81st
SPS.

Also possibly in Halt's party were Major Malcolm Zickler,
Chief of Base Security and Captain Mike Verano, the Day Shift
Commander.

Sometime around 11.00 p.m., they entered Rendlesham forest and
examined the area where Penniston and Burroughs claimed to
have seen the 'strange lights'.

Halt's party took radiation readings from possible 'landing
marks' which had been identified after the first incident,
proceeded through the forest where they saw a 'strange
flashing red light' plus other perceived phenomena, and headed
due east through farmland.

At this point, the most momentous event of that night was
documented on the microcassette recorder which Halt had taken
with him. The recording was later made public and a transcript
reads:

HALT: 3:05. At about ten degrees, horizon, directly north,
we've got two strange objects, er, half moon shape, dancing
about, with colored lights on 'em. At, er, guess to be about
five to ten miles out, maybe less. The half moons have now
turned into full circles as though there was an eclipse or
something there for a minute or two.

HALT: 03:15. Now we've got an object about 10 degrees directly
south, 10 degrees off the horizon. And the ones to the north
are moving. One's moving away from us.

1ST VOICE: Moving out fast.

2ND VOICE: This one on the right's heading away, too.

HALT: They're both heading north. Hey, here he comes from the
south, he's coming toward us now.

HALT: Now we're observing what appears to be a beam coming
down to the ground.

SHOUT IN BACKGROUND: [Unclear - possibly 'colors!' or 'take
cover!']

HALT: This is unreal.


At 0400, Halt's last remarks were, "One object still hovering
over Woodbridge base at about five to ten degrees off the
horizon, still moving erratic and similar lights and beaming
down as earlier".


One possible explanation is that stars were being mistaken for
moving aerial objects. However, it seems clear from the actual
tape that the first and second 'voices' are different and
added to Halt's observations, means that if stars were being
inadvertently assumed to be rapidly moving, then three people
had an identical optical aberration at the same time.

There's also the acute point that one of the 'celestial'
objects was observed and documented at the time to have not
only accelerated from the south, it sent down a beam of light
close to Halt's group.


During 1998, Halt was interviewed by American journalist AJS
(Salley) Rayl and elaborated:

"We've crossed the farmer's field past his house and across
the road, stumbled through a small stream and went out into a
large ploughed field. Somebody noticed several objects in the
sky to the north - three objects clearly visible with
multiple-colored lights on them. The objects appeared
elliptical and then they turned full round, which I thought
was quite interesting. All three doing that. They were
stationary for awhile and then they started to move at high
speed in sharp angular patterns as though they were doing a
grid search. About that same time, somebody noticed the south,
a similar object, it was round - did not change shape - and at
one point it appeared to come toward us at a very high speed.
It stopped overhead and sent down a small pencil-like beam,
sort of like a laser beam. It was an interesting beam in that
it stayed - it was the same size all the way down the beam. It
illuminated the ground about ten feet from us and we just
stood there in awe wondering whether it was a signal, a
warning, or what it was. We really didn't know."

"It clicked off as though someone threw a switch, and the
object receded, back up into the sky".

"Then it moved back toward Bentwaters and continued to send
down beams of light, at one point near the weapons storage
facility. We knew that, because we could hear the chatter on
the radio".

An incredible tale and somewhat disconcerting as the weapons
storage facility has long been rumoured to have housed nuclear
weapons.


The apparent intrusion was never solved by Halt and at a
subsequent staff meeting of the Third Air Force, he was
informed that as the incidents occurred on British soil, it
was a matter for the Ministry of Defence.

In 1993, American researcher Robert Todd, obtained a copy of
Halt's memo to the MoD, under the US Freedom of Information
Act (FOIA).

The Ministry have clarified in writing to myself and others
that they did investigate the affair and found nothing which
was 'of defence significance'. One reason cited is that
considerable time had elapsed between the incidents and
receiving Halt's brief memo.

There seems to be no evidence that Halt's memo resulted in a
thorough enquiry by the Ministry and Halt has expressed his
bewilderment that he didn't even receive an acknowledgement
from them.

Although some witnesses to both night's events have come
forward with their accounts since 1980, missing from the
contemporary evidence was a testimony from anyone who was on
duty in the weapons storage area (WSA) that night.

Until now.


Recently, I was contacted by a member of the 81st SPS who had
come across some lengthy articles I had written in 1998,
following extensive research into the case.

>From the information given, there seems no doubt that the
events he relates took place on the same date as Lt. Col.
(subsequently Colonel) Halt recorded his own experiences on
tape.


The witness is Randy D. Smith, an Honor Graduate from Air
Training Command.

A Security Specialist, Randy's Certificate of Appointment
confirms he was assigned to RAF Bentwaters with the
noncommissioned rank of Sergeant on 1 September, 1980.


Noting that any comments of my own, or clarifications, are
contained in square brackets, this is Sergeant Randy Smith's
story of what happened one night in late December, 1980:

"I was either a SrA.[Senior Airman] or Sgt. at the time. It
was Christmas time 1980. 'D' flight had been working the 3-
11pm shift, while 'C' flight had been working the 11pm-7am
shift.

It was a quiet, clear night. I believe I was working 'Whiskey
5' which was the alarm response team in the weapons storage
area on Bentwaters. I am unsure of my partner that night. I
had free range of one half of the WSA and I was driving a
pickup truck. Clarence George was my area supervisor. Rick
Bobo was the SPCDS [Small Permanent Communications Display
Segment -a 'computerized alarm system'] tower operator in the
WSA.

The next thing I recall, not long after the shift began,
perhaps midnight or so, I heard Bob Ball come over the radio
and request that the aircraft control tower give him
permission to cross the active runway, it saves 15 minutes
driving time, as opposed to driving the perimeter road. At
that point I knew SOMETHING was happening because no-one ever
crossed the active runway unless there was an extreme
emergency. Bob, perhaps logically accompanied by Lt. Bruce
Englund, crossed the runway on Bentwaters, they picked up Lt.
Col. Halt and some equipment and returned by the same route. I
would say that between 30 minutes to an hour had passed since
Bob made his first request to cross. They then proceeded to
recross the runway, and went out the back gate headed toward
RAF Woodbridge. After that, the radio was quiet for a long
time.

It was a very quiet night, no planes, no helicopters flying.
Clarence George came by to talk to me and he said that
everyone in the WSA was in the SPCDS tower watching 'lights'
and did I want to come check it out? So I did. Clarence
thought they were all crazy. It's a small tower and people
were jammed in there body to body, overloading the tower I'm
sure. More people than I've ever seen in the tower at one
time".

Randy's reported observation from the security tower was of
what appeared to be a silent, triangular-shaped craft,
hovering near the twin base complex.

It's an assertion which might be startling on its own.

Randy, however, states there were three of them.

"I asked what everyone was looking at and they pointed out 3
objects that appeared like stars to the naked eye. Binoculars
were being passed around and when I had my turn I saw VERY
CLEAR images of 3 triangular shaped craft that were hovering a
few miles away and above treetop level".

"They were triangular in shape, larger than a fighter jet, but
smaller than a C5. Definitely triangular with lights that were
arranged around the bottom that were perhaps different colors
but unable to distinguish at that distance. I only stayed in
the tower for an hour or so and heard one of the guys with a
turn on the binoculars say, 'Wow, it just took off'. Two of
the craft left at a high rate of speed. The one remaining
craft was still in position when I left the tower".

"Regarding sound-very quiet, no motor sounds whatsoever".

"I also remember hearing the radio traffic regarding the
light-alls [these were gas powered, portable lights which it's
known were being used that night and proved problematic] and
not working, replacing them, they didn't work, then much
later, they all worked fine".

"The following night, I went on duty. At guardmount, Bob Ball
was very serious, he's almost never serious, a very jovial
person. He said, 'I saw something last night, but I'm not at
liberty to discuss it'. And that was the 'end'. I later heard
that the morning we got off our first midnight shift, an A-10
was scrambled and sent to Ramstein, Germany, by Lt. Col.
Halt".


As for the 'beams of light' which Halt claims were being
reported on radio as coming down near the WSA, Randy has no
knowledge of this.

Randy, in fact, can't recall much of what happened afterwards:
"I remember leaving the tower and then I can remember as I was
riding my bicycle home I was thinking that I must have turned
in my weapon because I don't have it with me".

He couldn't think of any significant occurrences in-between.

Except for one thing..

Randy believes that at some point he was, "on top of the
structure near the bunker where you'd go if you were under
attack".

Why he may have thought the WSA was under attack, is something
that poses an enigma and one which Randy would like to
resolve.


In the past it's been claimed that RAF Bentwaters held a
'tactical nuclear weapons' stockpile, a fact not acknowledged
by the respective US and UK governments.

Some 20 years later, there's no obvious reason why that should
remain a vital secret and as one former serviceman was on
record as alleging that Bentwaters held the largest 'NATO
nuclear weapons dump', I asked if this entire issue might now
be clarified.

Randy's wife, Kathy, provided considerable assistance in
obtaining answers to what at times seemed an unreasonable
amount of questions. Fortunately, she fully appreciated it was
necessary to understand the context of this new evidence and
her patience, diligence and knowledge of the issues were
invaluable.

Kathy responded:

"Yes, of course there were small, 'hot', tactical nuclear
weapons at Bentwaters, as used on an F-16, not large as used
on B-52's and B-1's. However, Bentwaters probably had the
least weapons, not the 'largest NATO dump' by any means. The
WSA is the highest security area on the base. In a 'hot'
nuclear area, you employ the two man concept throughout the
entire area, no single person ever allowed around nukes".

"The bunkers would look like small hills. They were covered
with dirt and had grass growing on them sloped front to back.

There were about 10 bunkers total, the two large on the ends
and 8 all within the long middle section. All of these
contained 'hot' nuclear weapons. This was Rand's posted
position that night".

"Use of deadly force was authorized".

"The bunkers on each end were defensive fighting positions.
That was where Randy believes (98% positive) he was when
Tsgt.[Technical-Sergeant] Clarence George, the area
supervisor, approached him and asked if he wanted to go up in
the tower. That was where you would take position if you were
ever under attack, not where you'd ever be under normal
conditions".

"The bunker is the weapon storage facility itself, where the
nukes are stored. It has thick steel, double doors, 2 high
security padlocks, and the Munitions Maintenance Squadron were
the ONLY people authorized to enter these structures. Up on
top, the SP's [Security Police] had a defensive fighting
position - 2 short steel walls, with sandbags in between the
walls. The only time anyone ever went up there was during an
exercise to prepare for an attack. In case of an actual
attack, you would follow the procedures practiced during the
exercise. It was training or it was real, no gray areas.

He knows they weren't training that night.

He has tried to recall why he was there that night but simply
can't".


I pointed out that if his supervisor had found Randy in a
defensive position, rather than inviting him to watch some
'strange lights', wouldn't he first have enquired why Randy
thought the WSA was under attack?

Kathy replied:

"Regarding the inability to recall what happened after Randy
left the tower, and the less than 100% assuredness of being on
the bunker when Tsgt. George invited him to the tower. What if
he isn't sure because it was after he left the tower that he
took that position up on the bunker? Maybe at that point the
area supervisor would have joined him at that location. He
would be the one to be in charge of what actions to take if
the WSA was penetrated".

This was precisely the scenario I had wondered about. If Halt
is correct and those 'beams of light' described on tape were
being directed near the WSA, then it's evident from the timing
documented in Halt's recording and Randy's statement, that
this occurred after Randy had left the observation tower.

Questioned about the exact timings, although realising it was
so long ago, Kathy provided more details:

"He believes he heard the radio traffic re Ball crossing
active, 'around' midnight, could have been as early as 11:30.
He would have begun hearing about the light-alls having
problems around 1:00am. He would have gone up in the tower
between 1:50-2:00am. Stayed until 3:00-3:30, and doesn't
recall anything else, until riding bike home".


We know from Halt's crucial documentation that the most
puzzling 'aerial phenomena' occurred between 0300 and 0330. If
Randy and his colleagues were conceivably observing the same
objects and aware of their evidently sudden, rapid departure,
then during this time - 0300 to 0330 - Randy would have to be
in the tower.

It looks like he possibly was and may have left directly after
that 'excitement' had passed.

Whilst it's impossible to be certain about this, the timings
are at least coincidentally close, perhaps surprisingly so if
there's no relationship.


Assuming Randy's claims are accurate and two of the 'objects'
being observed from the tower departed rapidly or were no
longer visible, then as noted, we have people in the security
tower who are experiencing similar misperceptions at around
the same as Halt's group, who were some two miles away.

It's something which might be further clarified if we had
accounts from the dozen or so others who were in the tower.

Asked for any additional information in this respect, Kathy
cited:

"The tower operator was Sgt. Rick Bobo.

Others that could possibly have been there were: Mike Dahl,
Dan Grogul, Jim Gouge, Jim O'Farrell, Mike Christian, Mike
Smith.

The 15 men with clearance to be in the tower would be a
vehicle searcher from the entry control point, the shift
supervisor, tower operator, 8 in the alert fire team facility,
and two 2-man patrols. The entry controller and the alarm
monitor were the only 2 people in the area that could not
leave their posts, as far as he knows, bringing the total to
17 people within the WSA".

An explanation of what exactly took place within the WSA that
night might lie with these colleagues, most, if not all, of
whom have presumably long since returned to the US.


Could the observations reported by Randy simply have been
misidentified stars, perhaps distorted by the optically
imperfect glass windows of the observation tower, the use of
binoculars and further compounded by mist, haze, fog, ice
particles, etc.

The answer must be affirmative, there are many examples of
stars being misidentified as 'strange objects'.

Where this case notably differs is that Halt's tape recording
provides corroborative evidence that there was at around the
same time a documented observation of 'star-like' objects
which exhibited characteristics that can't easily, if at all,
be equated with stars.

Furthermore, a nearby resident, Gerry Harris, has testified
that earlier on the same night, he observed 'abnormal lights'
moving over the base complex:

"I stood watching them and they were going up and moving about
this way and that way and they were going up, they were coming
down and I watched them for, three quarters of an hour and,
all of a sudden, they disappeared.

But just before they went, before they disappeared, there was
a lot of activity on the base, I could hear vehicles running
about, I could see the flashing lights of vehicles moving
about and I could hear people shouting, it was quiet and the
wind must have been in this direction. I could hear their
voices and then they were calling to each other and then I
could hear the roaring of their vehicles, which at that time
of night was unusual".

It's against this overall background that Randy's account
needs to be placed in perspective.


Any conclusion about what may, or may not, have occurred
during these incidents is hampered by the absence of
testimonies from so many who participated.

Added to all who are identified above, are those that took
part in the first night's incident, when Burroughs, Cabansag
and Penniston pursued the source of 'peculiar lights' through
Rendlesham forest.

At Lt. Col Halt's request, Burroughs, Cabansag and Penniston,
plus the Flight Chief, Master-Sergeant J. D. Chandler and the
Shift Commander, Fred A. Buran [rank unknown], provided
written statements of their involvement in this first
incident.

I obtained copies of these witness affidavits last year and
they served as proof that Burroughs, Cabansag and Penniston
pursued a light through the forest and farm terrain for some
two miles, before realising it was the beacon from nearby
Orfordness lighthouse. This had never previously been
disclosed and confirmed the lighthouse was a factor.

The deceptive lighthouse beacon had been suggested as the
explanation for all that transpired, however, from a
painstaking analysis of the evidence, that seems impossible.

Two of the unidentified lights first observed from 'east gate'
were consistently mentioned in this early documentation as
'red and blue', for example, Burroughs described:

"On the night of 25-26 Dec at around 0300 while on patrol down
at east gate myself and my partner saw lights coming from the
woods due east of the gate. The lights were red and blue the
red one above the blue one and they were flashing on and off".

It's the source of these 'red and blue lights', seen from the
east gate and then reportedly moving through the forest, which
has never been determined.

>From the complete accounts, it seems evident that the 'beacon'
light later seen in the forest and which turned out to be from
Orfordness was a completely separate occurrence, for example,
Burroughs later attested:

"We climbed over the fence and started heading towards the red
and blue lights and they just disappeared. Once we reached the
farmer's house we could see a beacon going around so we went
towards it. We followed it for about 2 miles before we could
see it was coming from a lighthouse2.

Penniston indeed made the distinction, Chandler confirming:

"Each time Penniston gave me the indication that he was about
to reach the area where the lights were, he would give an
extended estimated location. He eventually arrived at a
'beacon light', however, he stated that this was not the light
or lights he had originally observed".

Buran verified:

"SSgt Penniston reported getting near the 'object' and then
all of a sudden said they had gone past it and were looking at
a marker beacon that was in the same general direction as the
other lights. I asked him, through SSgt Coffey, if he could
have been mistaken, to which SSgt Penniston replied that had I
seen the other lights I would know the difference. SSgt
Penniston seemed agitated at this point".

Staff-sergeant Coffey is another who might help our
understanding of this episode.


In Penniston's written testimony to Halt, he makes the
following claim:

"After receiving permission from CSC, we proceeded off base
past east gate, down an old logging road. Left vehicle
proceeded on foot. Burroughs and I were approximately 15-20
meters apart and proceeding on a true east direction from the
logging road. The area in front of us was lighting up a 30
meter area. When we got within a 50 meter distance. The object
was producing red and blue light. The blue light was steady
and projecting under the object. It was lighting up the area
directly under extending a meter or two out.

At this point of positive identification I relayed to CSC,
SSgt Coffey. Positive sighting of object...colour of lights
and that it was definitely mechanical in nature".

An anomaly is that Penniston then immediately added, "This is
the closest point that I was near the object at any point",
which differs markedly from his subsequent public claims to
have examined a triangular-shaped object at close range for
some 10-20 minutes and even touched 'strange symbols' on its
surface.

All of the statements gathered by Lt. Col. Halt seem to
support Penniston's original contention that the source of the
lights was in fact never located.

In later years Burroughs also acknowledged, "I never saw
anything metallic or anything hard".


The articles I published in 1998 specifically highlighted the
clear discrepancies between what was documented at the time
and the more elaborate tales later told. As it was hoped this
might lead to the anomalies being addressed and perhaps even
rationalised, some other aspects were left aside.

Consequently, a fact which is publicly divulged here for the
first time is that in their respective statements, Chandler
and Buran do confirm that Penniston radioed he had seen an
actual object, nor merely illusive lights.

Chandler wrote: "On one occasion, Penniston relayed that he
was close enough to the object to determine that it was
definitely a mechanical object", with Buran agreeing, "at one
point SSgt Penniston stated that it was a definite metallic
object".

Was it, or wasn't it and if so , what was it.

A key testimony is Ed Cabansag's
 and he has never spoken about
the events. I'm not aware that he has ever been located and
asked.


A close colleague of Burroughs and Penniston was Geraldo
Valdes-Sanchez, perhaps better known as Jerry Valdez.

Jerry contacted me in April, 1997 and recounted how he was
part of 'B' flight in the 81st SPS and a member of a patrol
which had been sent to check on Burroughs, Penniston and
Cabansag that first night.

Although I published the essence of Jerry's story, giving him
the pseudonym of 'Tom', that full story has never been told
before now:

"I was assigned to RAF Bentwaters in August of 1980.

I worked with Burroughs and Penniston. What they said was
true. As a matter of fact, the following statements are true
and can be verified by many people.

The acting squadron was the 81st. SPS and 'B' Flight was the
acting security force on duty. Burroughs and Penniston were on
'B' flight.

'A' flight was the day flight, daytime only.

The Guard at East gate was Amn [Airman] Burroughs and Amn
Beachum [it was actually Airman 1st Class John Burroughs and
Staff Sergeant Bud Steffans].

I was stationed on Security - 6 with either Amn Hartman or Sgt
Sauls. We saw the entire thing.

Shift change was from 26th at 2300 hrs till 0700 hrs of the
27th.

The top Flight Sgt on duty was MSgt Fail. Lt. Col. Halt was
not there the first night.

It was a bitterly cold night and clear.

Radio communications were disrupted on and off due to some
type of atmospheric disturbance. The radios weren't working at
all that night. There were 6 channels, called 'Queen', 'Queen
1', 'King 1' and so on. One channel was reserved for Law
Enforcement, one for RAF Bentwaters and the rest were open.

We switched channels all night.

Contact had been lost with Burroughs, Penniston and Beachum
[Steffans remained at 'east gate', the other participant was
Airman Ed Cabansag].

The base had an Alarm Response Team (ART) and a Security
Response Team (SRT).

Codes in use at that time and which have now been declassified
were 'Helping Hand' - a potentially hostile threat - and
'Covered Wagon' - a confirmed hostile threat.

If the first alert status was unresolved after 30 minutes, it
automatically became a confirmed, hostile threat.


The person on the post should have been Burroughs, but he was
missing, the weapons were missing and the phone was off the
hook.

This was around 2:00 a.m. [it's known this must have been
after 3.00 a.m.].

We were carrying weapons and were told to hold our position.
MSgt Fail went out.


I could clearly see the lights from the gate, just outside the
back gate [east gate]. It was next to the road.

They were intermittent lights, very bright, 15-20 feet above
the ground.

They were pulsating and from what I recall there were 3
lights, red green and blue.

It made no noise, but it defied gravity. It was really weird
and scary. We all knew what we were looking at, but no one
really came out and said it.

I saw them, so did Amn Beachum, Amn Hartman, Amn Randy
Hernandez.

Burroughs and Penniston finally showed up. I somehow think
something happened to them. They were acting strange.

We were then told to go back to our posts.


Shift change in the morney for 'B' flight was extremely late.
'A' Flight relieved us at 9:30 am, very late.

When we went out the East gate back to Bentwaters, leaving
Woodbridge, there were many people, including numerous people
in typical lab coats making an analysis of the area. You could
see out the vehicle to the right side, that there were many
people examining the area, searching, looking for something.
Some of these people were in white overcoats, that's why I say
that they looked like typical techs in lab coats.

They were searching the area in front of the forest.

The 'few branches' that were broken off were not a few, it was
a lot, a huge area had been cleared. There were trees missing.

I also saw Bobbys [British Policemen] and little white police
cars.

I was pointing these things out and Hartman says, 'Valdez,
shut up about that [or words to that effect]'.

I was green.


I know that they got pictures and hard evidence of this thing.

Penniston told me he shot a roll of film, but it had been
confiscated.

The base had a problem with 'bird watchers', people who were
suspected to be Russian spies. The base security personnel had
to photograph anyone who showed an interest in the base
activities. Penniston may have had a loaded camera in his
duffel bag.

[Note: it was only last year that Penniston first revealed he
had taken photographs of the perceived 'object' in the forest
- Penniston states he was told the photographs 'didn't come
out', which is likely as they were taken within a dense forest
in the dark of night].


A lot of people staked the place out on the second night. The
crew on duty then was 'C' Flight, 'B' Flight had just finished
its last midnight shift for the cycle. Halt's night was 'C'
shift.

The starlight scope mentioned by Lt. Col. Halt [referred to in
Halt's recording], fits on top of an M16. There were no night
vision binoculars in those days.

There were a large number of light-alls in the forest and I
wondered how they had got them all in there. We always had
problems with them. This was 17 years ago, not today's
technology.

If Charles [Halt] says a beam of light shone down at his feet,
then a beam of light shone down at his feet. You can take that
to the bank.


As far as people that saw or knew about this incident, there
were well over 30 security people who swept the area looking
for Beachum [Cabansag], Burroughs and Penniston, who were
missing.

Everyone involved on the 26th and 27th is listed in the
Security Police Blotter AF Form 53.

Woodbridge security and LE [Law Enforcement] can verify
everything. The Deskblotter AF Form 53 has a complete account
of the entire event.

Also, try and get a hold of the form 'Incident Complaint
Report 1569'.

[Note: I requested these documents under the US FOIA and was
eventually advised they would have been destroyed after 2-3
years per normal procedures].


It happened 17 years ago, but I remember it clearly. Here are
some more details:

Other Security Forces involved in incident were Security
Flight Leader, Msgt Fail, Security One, Col. Schultz, Chief of
Security Police, Buckholst [spelling uncertain] and Central
Security Controller, Chandler [Chandler was the Flight Chief
on 'C' flight].

It happened and a lot of people know about it".


What exactly happened remains the mystery.

The people in 'lab coats' are a singular puzzle. Their
presence is substantiated by another testimony on record,
which refers to them as being from 'environmental health'.

Did the base complex have an environmental health division and
why such a rapid response to a sighting of 'odd lights' - this
was only a few hours after the initial incident and it was
during the holiday period.


Staff Sergeant William A. Kirk Jr., was "NCOIC of the
Telecommunications Facility located next to the Commanders
hut".

Also published for the first time is his account as told to me
of the apparent high-level communications traffic after the
'UFO' incident. He wasn't sure which of the two incidents this
followed, however, it was recalled:

"At the time, I was posted on temporary duty to RAF Bentwaters
from RAF Martlesham Heath.

When I showed for duty, communications was running at a peak,
and stayed that way. Many users complained because of busy
signals or being 'bumped'.

Radio traffic between RAF Bentwaters and RAF Martlesham Heath
was full. Switch Techs at Martlesham complained to me of a
great deal of 'Flash' traffic.

Radio Communications Techs at Bentwaters complained about the
amount of traffic. Bentwaters Switchboard Operators remarked
about how 'busy' it was.

I noted increased personnel traffic into the commanders
office. I naturally assumed that an alert or recall was
possible or starting. NATO seemed to have a great deal of them
over the previous year. Whatever the reason, it was a very
busy day for telecommunications traffic".


I asked William he could clarify the nature of 'flash traffic'
and he helpfully obliged:

"American military telephone traffic (AUTOVON = automatic
voice network) has some small differences to regular telephone
communications. The telephone set is push button (long before
the general public had push buttons). 4 extra buttons are
located to the left of the 1 - 4 - 7 - * buttons. They are
labelled P, I, F, FO (P = priority, and is located next to 1),
(I = immediate, located next to 4), (F = flash, located next
to 7), (FO = flash override, next to *). VERY few people had
access to autovon phones and usually there was about one to
two per office area. Usually they were contained at a desk
with a person of higher rank. EVEN fewer were given the power
to use the buttons. Just because you had them did not mean you
could use them. The more important you were, the higher power
you had to 'bump'.

If you were talking on a normal telephone call, just like if
you were to pick up the telephone right now and call a friend,
and I called you, I would hear a busy tone. Well... if I had
the power, I would hang up, push the P button, touch in the
number again, and BANG, you were disconnected from your
friend, you would get a special ring, and there I would be.
Your friend would be high and dry.... HOWEVER if your friend
had the power to call on an Immediate precedence, he could
"bump" me. If I had flash.... well you get the point by now.
Few people had an autovon telephone, fewer had the use of the
P button, even fewer had the use of the I button, less the F
(usually commanders), and only the President and such had use
of the FO button".

As "only the senior base officials had access to 'Flash',
usually commanders", it appears there was an exceptional
amount of communications traffic using the highest base
priority and also, possibly substantiating this, greater than
normal activity in the 'commanders office'.

Again, it was the holiday period, so what was this all about?

It brings us full circle and poses the question; was any of
this related to the incidents and specifically concerns about
nuclear weapons?


How can Randy be so certain about what he claims to have seen.

It's a question I put to him in a number of ways, querying for
example:

- was there any cloud cover and if so, were the objects ever
covered by cloud or definitely lower than clouds

- if the latter, what was their altitude with respect to the
forest trees and did the altitude noticeably change (it would
have altered if they were stars)

- was it easy to keep the objects centred in the binoculars'
viewfinder (using hand held binoculars and due to inadvertent
body movement, it's extremely difficult to focus steadily on
stars).

He responded:

"In regards to cloud cover, I remember the night as being
clear. If there were clouds, these objects were lower than the
clouds. As you state, clouds would block out stars, these
objects were never blocked out.

It wasn't even the lights that were important. It was the
shape that made us realize what we were looking at.

It's hard to determine how far above the trees these craft
were. Best guess, several hundred feet above the ground. They
weren't 'just above' treetop, but they weren't really that
high either.

They didn't noticeably change altitude while I was looking.
They also didn't appear to be stationary-like a star would
have been. More like viewing say a helicopter that's hovering
very smoothly. i.e. no or very little yaw, and no buck. And
yes, they were always perceived to be the same distance above
the trees while I was viewing. There was only one pair of
binoculars in the tower and not on a tripod. The objects were
steady in the viewfinder and it wasn't really difficult to
keep them centered.

You also ask about the tower's windows. They are not angled
outwards as with an aircraft control tower. The windows aren't
as big as in an aircraft control tower. The window glass is
thick and bullet resistant. However, I don't believe my view
was either impeded nor distorted by this glass. It's designed
to be an OBSERVATION tower, I OBSERVED 3 triangular craft with
lights, my vision was and is perfect, the area of observation
was clear. There is NO DOUBT in my mind whatsoever".


>From lengthy discussions, Randy has provided finite details of
the perceived objects, all of which seemed to be identical,
together with a drawing.

The shape is effectively an upright pyramid, Randy being
uncertain whether it may have been flat-surfaced or conical.
However, he believed the objects were cone-shaped as they
"didn't look to be so flat as an actual pyramid".

The lights underneath, which "created somewhat of a backlit
effect enabling the shape of the crafts to be seen clearly",
were observed to be 8-10 rectangular blocks, arranged in a
circle.


Randy's claim to have perfect vision has substance. He retired
from the services in 1995 and I noticed from his 'Certificate
of Release or Discharge' that he was an expert marksman with
both pistol and rifle.

Subsequent enquiries revealed that during his later service at
Fort Drum between 1992-94, Randy was on the SRT (SWAT) team
for three years.

For eighteen months of that stint, Randy was a sniper.


Asked for her own recollections, specifically if Randy
confided details at the time of what he observed, Kathy
related how Randy was visibly shaken when he returned home and
confirmed, "Yes, he told me the description of the crafts
early in the morning following his shift".

Kathy added, "Randy never considered his information to be all
that important because so many saw the same thing from the
tower and others had more rank and authority".


I forwarded an Ordnance survey map showing both bases and
asked Randy if he would indicate on this where the WSA was,
plus the direction of his observation. He has also provided a
detailed sketch of the WSA, identifying where the objects were
observed.

The three objects were in close proximity, as Kathy explained:

"He said he could estimate the distance to the craft a bit
more accurately if he KNEW how big the craft were up close and
then compare to the apparent size due to distance. He
obviously could not make that comparison. They could very well
have been much closer, perhaps as close as 1-2 miles. It's
very difficult to judge distance due to so many unknown
variables.

He states, 'They weren't real close, and they weren't real far
away'.

They shimmered like large bright stars to the naked eye. Randy
directed the binoculars to the one on the far right, focused,
and could immediately distinguish the triangular shaped craft
with the bank of shimmery lights underneath. He got the
impression of colors shimmering in the silvery white light.
Then scanned slightly left and saw identical 2nd craft,
scanned further left and saw the 3rd identical craft. The 2 on
the right were closer together than the one to the left. No
two could be seen simultaneously. He spent at least 15
minutes scanning back and forth, they seemed to hold their
positions in a 'hover'. Passed the binoculars, next time
around, not sure how much later, on 2nd turn, all 3 craft were
still visible seemingly in the same positions. After several
minutes, passed the binoculars to, perhaps, Rick Bobo, he was
next to Randy, and he may have been the one to say, 'WOW, they
just TOOK OFF!', implying with great speed".

"Not sure what it was hovering over, his best guess would be
the forest. He does not know if they showed up on radar or
not, does not know if Lakenheath or Heathrow were called. Not
aware of anything in the local or base press".


As the three 'objects' were approximately to the south-west of
RAF Bentwaters and two of three documented by Halt were to the
north (the other to the south), then if they were all stars,
there had to be, at least four, if not an astonishing FIVE
separate stars, which gave rise to the misperceptions.

James McGaha, 'technical consultant' for the Committee for
Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP),
suggested that the lights Halt observed - two in the north and
one to the south - were almost certainly, if not
unquestionably, the stars Vega, Deneb and Sirius,
respectively.

Science writer Ian Ridpath, who has a considerable knowledge
of the case history, was asked for his opinion on Randy's
testimony and believes that from the description of their
positions, the right-hand star was Rigel, the one to the left
was Saiph (Kappa Orionis) and to the far left was Sirius.

It's understandable why Ian concludes these three objects were
also stars, however, as noted, there are conversely reasons to
conclude otherwise.

If not stars and they were in fact infinitely closer, possibly
'objects' above the base complex, then there may only have
been three prominent, unfamiliar aerial objects, as reported
by the base observers.

In a separate interview with AJS Rayl from last year, Halt was
asked for his opinion on the idea that some form of
'psychological warfare' may have been involved. He dismissed
this, stating:

"The idea that we or the British would be testing some kind of
psychological warfare just outside one of the most sensitive
NATO bases in Europe, where civilians could possibly be
involved doesn't make any sense either".

"We can do some very interesting things alright, but some of
the men in the weapons storage area saw the objects in the sky
as well as the object that projected the pencil-like beam -
and they were a mile and a half away, maybe two from where we
were, and I question whether or not they could have been
influenced by some kind of projection. I don't think so, not
at that distance".

If other personnel in the WSA did report seeing the same
'objects', it's a significant confirmation of Sergeant Randy
Smith's testimony.


Despite so many intervening years, the truth is proverbially
out there and it's hoped the evidence deliberated here may yet
result in new information coming to light.

If anyone can directly assist in finally answering the many
questions highlighted, or provide contact details for the
personnel mentioned, I would obviously be delighted to hear
from them.



James Easton.
E-mail: pulsar@easynet.co.uk
Web site: http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/

Copyright of James Easton,
5 April, 1999.


Appendix:

The following documents from Sergeant Randy Smith are
available on my web site:

Certificate - Honor Graduate from Air Training Command, 21
April, 1978 - Security Specialist:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/graduate.gif


Letter designating the award of Honor Graduate:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/graduat2.gif


Certificate of completed training - US Army Marksmanship Unit:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/marksman.gif


Certificate of Appointment as a Sergeant, RAF Bentwaters,
1 September, 1980:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/appoint.gif


Certificate of Recognition for "Outstanding Contributions" at
RAF Bentwaters:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/recogn.jpg


Certificate of Appreciation and Citation from Strategic Air
Command for duties involving "47 Primary Nuclear Airlift Force
missions":

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/sac.gif


Certificate from 10th Military Police Battalion, Fort Drum in
recognition of "outstanding participation" during a
presidential visit on 15 March, 1994:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/10th_mil.gif


Certificate of Release or Discharge - Page 1:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/release1.gif

Certificate of Release or Discharge - Page 2:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/release2.gif


Detailing drawing of RAF Bentwaters weapons storage area
(WSA), showing the nuclear weapons bunkers, the approximate
direction of reported observations and the defensive
positions:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/wsa.jpg


Ordnance Survey (OS) map, showing RAF Bentwaters, RAF
Woodbridge and surrounding area. The weapons storage area and
approximate direction of the reported observations have been
added by Sergeant Smith:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/rand_map.jpg





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   Apr > Apr 7

                    Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:39:11 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 00:28:02 -0400
Subject: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...


Greetings everyone.

I enjoyed listening to John Velez last Sunday night and to David
Jacobs the previous Sunday on 'Strange Days... Indeed'.  Their
talk about the unknown intentions of alleged E.T.s involved in
UFO abductions along with the recent discussions about the new
MJ-12 documents on UFO UpDates got me to look up a written reply
by Dr. Eric A. Walker, scientist and past president of Penn
State University, to William Steinman's initial phone and
follow-up letter (on the phone Eric was quoted as saying "Yes, I
know of MJ-12.  I have known them for 40 years...").

Quoting Dr. Walker's letter from p. 15a of Grant Cameron and
T. Scott Crain Jr.'s book 'UFOs, MJ-12 and the Government'
(published by the Mutual UFO Network, Inc.), we read:


"...there were no bodies; there were four very normal
individuals, all male.  Unfortunately, they had no memory of
anything in the past (probably by design), but they were highly
intelligent.  They learned the English language within a few
hours and it was our decision not to make public spectacles of
them, but to allow them to be absorbed into American culture as
soon as we were sure that they did not bring any contamination
with them.  I believe all four have done this very successfully.
One assumed a simple name and proved himself to be an expert on
computers, although he had not memory of such devices.  He
became the president and innovator for one of the largest and
most successful computer organizations.

A second one became a world famous athlete, and because of his
quick reaction time, exceeded any normal person in his
performances.  He is still a noted professional athlete.

The third became enamored with finance at our capitalistic
system.  He has made himself famous as a Wall Street raider, and
is very rich.

The fourth, I have lost track of and have no clues as to where
he might be.  However, I consider the decision to let these
people meld into American life, completely justified,..."


We are told in Hebrews 13:2 "Do not forget to entertain
strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels
without knowning it.".  The Bible has many such examples of
meetings with very human looking beings.  Is this also true now?

Over the next couple of years, phone calls and correspondence to
Dr. Walker by Steinman, Crain, Cameron, Tom Mickus (a University
of Toronto student and sysop of a UFO oriented BBS), Dr. Henry
Azadehdel/Victorian (a mysterious character in himself) and
others provided additional evidence that, although Dr. Walker
may have been kidding around about certain things (like the the
human looking E.T.s), he had intimate knowledge and direct
involvement with the UFO phenomena that he could not share. Is
there other or more recent evidence of a connection between the
late Dr. Walker and UFOs?

Why the big secrecy about UFOs?  We may get a hint in the long
letter Dr. Olavo T. Fontes (original investigator of the 1957
Ubatuba UFO fragments) wrote to a friend in over 40 years ago
where he shared many facts about the reality of UFOs and the
reasons for the worldwide UFO coverup that were revealed to him
by Brazilian naval intelligence officers in exchange for his
cooperation with them.  Isn't it interesting how later books and
dubious MJ-12 documents mirror much of what is in Dr. Fontes'
letter?

Although Dr. Fontes died shortly afterwards from cancer in his
30's, I think the proof of the reality of UFOs may come from his
Ubatuba UFO fragments which still exist and are in public hands.

Nick Balaskas






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   Apr > Apr 7

                MUFON To Secure UFO Hearings Vote On US State

From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:36:37 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 08:35:30 -0400
Subject: MUFON To Secure UFO Hearings Vote On US State


April 6, 1999

Paradigm Research Group

Announcement

Congratulations to Robert Bletchman, MUFON Director of Public
Relations, and Larry Bryant, MUFON Director of Government
Affairs, for successfully securing MUFON's formal national
support for the State Ballot Initiative which could put the Open
Congressional Hearing demand directly to the voters in 16
states.

And congratulations to MUFON for making an historic decision at
a critical time which will significantly impact the process of
disclosure.

Much more, including formal national press releases to follow
soon.

Bob Bletchman, Larry Bryant and Stephen Bassett will talk about
MUFON's decision tonight, Tuesday, April 6, 9:30 pm PST, 12:30
am EST, on Sightings on the Radio with Jeff Rense at:

www.sightings.com





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   Apr > Apr 7

               'The Village Voice' On NY Abduction Conference

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:55:58 +0200 (MET DST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 08:48:14 -0400
Subject: 'The Village Voice' On NY Abduction Conference


[List only]

Source: The Village Voice (New York, Weekly),

http://www.villagevoice.com:80/features/9914/bunn.shtml

Stig

***

Apri1 7 - 13, 1999

by
austin bunn

The Alienist

Artist Brings UFO Abduction Home To New York

**

Budd Hopkins keeps a scrapbook of scars=97 close-up photographs of
lashes, wales, and scabs that people can't explain. He flips
through the images and points to an indentation the size of a
teaspoon on a woman's upper arm. "These are scoop marks," he
says. "You see them a lot." In another shot, a woman's labia are
spread to reveal two perforations in the skin, supposedly
incised by aliens while she slept. On another woman's shoulder
swells a giant, deep bruise that, he says, "healed by the end of
the day."

This Saturday, Hopkins takes his latest findings =97 scars and all=97
public at a daylong conference on UFO abduction, featuring the
leading lights in the field: UFO Encyclopedia author Jerome
Clark, nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman (speaking on the
possibility of interstellar travel), and Temple University
historian David Jacobs (on abductions in the 19th century). Over
50 abductees will also be present, including Linda Cortile, the
victim of New York's best-known incident, the 1989 Brooklyn
Bridge abduction case.

"What you're dealing with are tightly imagined testimonies" by
abductees, says Hopkins, who has interviewed hundreds of them.
For example, "No abductee has ever reported any interest [by the
aliens] in the heart." It's as if the alleged victims of an
interstellar human buffet all somehow got their stories
straight. As if they were all telling the truth.

Hopkins, a veritable Alan Lomax of UFO abductions, has been
listening to abductees for over 20 years. An established artist
with paintings in the permanent collections of the Whitney and
Guggenheim, the 67-year-old has been collecting abductees'
testimony since his first (and only) sighting back in 1964 of a
"dark, elliptical object" hovering outside Provincetown. He has
amassed over 650 histories and transformed them into books like
Missing Time and the bestseller Intruders, which became a CBS
miniseries.

No doubt Saturday's "crash course," sponsored by Hopkins's own
Intruders Foundation, comes at a strange time for ufology. On
St. Marks Place, the city's extraterrestrial airstrip, you can't
escape merchandise printed with little green aliens toking on
spliffs and popping the peace sign. Cults seem to regularly make
the jump for Heaven's Gate. And who doesn't have a "scoop mark"?
According to a 1996 Newsweek poll, 48 percent of Americans think
UFOs are real and 29 percent of us think we have made contact.
For Hopkins, the cultural saturation vindicates the cause.
"We've gotten a tremendous fair shake from the media because of
it," he says.

The problem is that all the media attention is "contaminating
the pool" of subjects, notes Hopkins. "The more material that is
publicized, the easier it is for somebody with psychological
problems to invent something."

He already filters huge amounts of delusion from his mailbox
(people contact him through a P.O. box listed at the back of his
books). The majority of mail gets dumped immediately. Of the
remaining correspondents, only 30 percent can recall their
experience coherently afterward. As a result, Hopkins gets their
testimonies by hypnosis (free of charge), which raises eyebrows.
He claims it's necessary because aliens submerge people's
memories of abduction. Usually, each person has multiple
encounters. "If people have had one abduction experience, then
they will have others," he says. "It's as if you become a
specimen for them."

Why would a superior race waste its time wiping out people's
memory when pop-cult awareness of its activities is at an
all-time high? "It's extremely difficult to get inside the alien
mind," explains Hopkins. "There may be reasons for them to
forget the experiences so that they're tractable."

Unfortunately, the testimonies themselves don't tell us very
much, and for Hopkins, that is the most alarming part. In all
the records he's got, he's never seen any sign of alien
malevolence=97 "they don't pull out chin whiskers one by one," he
says=97 or benevolence. "That goes a long way to eliminating the
fantasy element to this=97 we tend to fantasize angels or devils
because most fantasy is connected to our needs and fears. But
this is something that doesn't have coloration and it leaves
people completely confused. It is truly alien."

Hopkins resists the idea that his own abstract expressionist art
might be influenced by his UFO research, through it's impossible
not to see parallels. His "Guardian" paintings=97 canvases
fractured by color that he calls "sentinel-like"=97 and his
"Altars" series of wooden sacred objects resonate with a
spiritual questioning. But he's cagey on the topic. "A
relationship ends, you move to a studio with a higher ceiling,
it all affects [the art]," says Hopkins. "I withstood the
connection [to the UFO research] for many years, and I still
don't like to stress it." He admits it has done "more harm than
good" to his art career.

He provides an invaluable service for the abductees, regardless
of whether they're telling the truth. "If it wasn't for Budd, I
don't know what would have happened to me," says Cortile (not
her real last name), who claims she was abducted from her
apartment on the Lower East Side. Her story is renowned in the
UFO community as one of the only witnessed abductions.
(Hopkins's book Witnessed examines the case.) In November 1989,
Cortile was preparing for sleep when she "looked up and there
was a four-foot guy across the room." She threw a pillow at it,
but then a white fabric fell over her head. "The next thing I
remember was dropping into my bed," she says. Three witnesses
later wrote letters to Hopkins claiming to have seen Cortile
floating up from her window into a spacecraft.

The case gets weirder. The woman who saw the abduction from her
car on the Brooklyn Bridge spoke to Hopkins, but now refuses to
be interviewed. The two other witnesses were unidentified
"agents" whom Hopkins never met and who continually harassed
Cortile to explain what had happened. One even claimed to have
been abducted repeatedly with Cortile (and to have fathered one
of her kids). If that weren't enough to undermine credibility,
Cortile herself must have floated through grilles on her window
to even make it into the open air. "You can't really believe
them," says Greg Sandow, a New York journalist and moderator at
the conference. "On the other hand, the more I looked into it,
it's a hoax of unimaginable complexity because of the number of
people that had to be involved."

Hoax or not, Hopkins is doing a kind of social work right in the
gap. He brought Cortile to a free monthly support group for
abductees he runs out of his art studio, and she's been
attending ever since. "I didn't know what to expect, but they
were people just like me," she says. "I made friends and they
pulled me through." Unfortunately, there's no cure for the
stories they're now living with. "I wish I was crazy," Cortile
says, exasperated. "There's a treatment for that."

The 1999 UFO Abduction Conference will be held at the O. Henry
Learning Center on West 17th Street, Saturday, April 10. Call
645-5278 for full information.


Tell us what you think.

editor@villagevoice.com






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   Apr > Apr 7

                       MIG-29 Footage (KGB-UFO-Files)

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 05:56:32 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 08:50:23 -0400
Subject: MIG-29 Footage (KGB-UFO-Files)


Hi All,

I know I am a little late with this one (Sorry I just got my
copy of the KGB UFO Files) and here is the question.

Whilst looking at the tape I was amazed by the footage taken
from the Mig-29, which seemed to capture on tape, 2 objects
merging as one?

Is that what this camera has caught, or is there a more mundane
explanation waiting out there to be given?

I am not saying this is ET, but I dont recall whether these 2
objects on this section of film were also caught on Radar?

If indeed they were, are we looking at possibly some of the most
interesting film footage of UFO's which obviously didn't belong
to the Russian Military / or US?

I would be interested to hear your view on this particular clip,
because if we are to believe what this film showed, then how did
these 2 objects become 1?

On the ET side of things , someone has suggested that what we
may in fact be looking at is a kind of Port-Hole? Gateway? And
not an actual physical object?From a dimensional aspect could
this be a point?

And has anyone seen similar film of objects like this merging
from a multiple to only one?

I do know there is a clip from the early Mexican films of a
considerable amount of UFO's doing this same thing.

If these were real physical objects in the KGB film , carrying
out such manoeuvres, where does that leave the doubt that one
might have on whether or not we do have unknown intelligently
controlled Aerial objects penetrating our Airspace?

Kind Regards,






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                   The Bentwaters and Woodbridge Incidents

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:28:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 09:21:04 -0400
Subject: The Bentwaters and Woodbridge Incidents


Pulsar Newsletter - Issue No. 4


Welcome to the latest issue of the newsletter.


CONTENTS

1. The Bentwaters and Woodbridge Incidents.

This newsletter is concerned with only one topic - recent
developments in the RAF Bentwaters/RAF Woodbridge case.


                      O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O


The Bentwaters and Woodbridge Incidents.

The events which occurred just after Christmas 1980 at the
twin-base complex of RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge in
Suffolk, England, are one of the UK's most enduring mysteries.

The American bases located on British soil were an important
component of NATO's front-line defences.

At approximately 3 a.m. on the morning of 26 December, 1980, a
security patrol at the 'east gate' sentry point on RAF
Woodbridge, noticed unfamiliar lights in Rendlesham forest,
which adjoined the Woodbridge base.

The ensuing investigation by Staff-Sergeant (SSgt) Jim
Penniston, Airman 1st Class John Burroughs and Airman Ed
Cabansag, all with the 81st Security Police Squadron (SPS),
led to later publicised claims from Burroughs and Penniston
that they had encountered an unidentified object which
manoeuvred through the forest.

During the late evening and early hours of 27th/28th December,
further reports of 'strange lights' resulted in the Deputy
Base Commander, Lieutenant-Colonel Charles Halt, forming a
team to investigate.

Amongst those known to have accompanied Halt were Lieutenant
Bruce Englund, the Duty Flight Lieutenant, Sergeant Monroe
Nevilles from Disaster Preparedness Operations and Master-
Sergeant [MSgt] Bobby Ball, a shift commander from the 81st
SPS.

Also possibly in Halt's party were Major Malcolm Zickler,
Chief of Base Security and Captain Mike Verano, the Day Shift
Commander.

Sometime around 11.00 p.m., they entered Rendlesham forest and
examined the area where Penniston and Burroughs claimed to
have seen the 'strange lights'.

Halt's party took radiation readings from possible 'landing
marks' which had been identified after the first incident,
proceeded through the forest where they saw a 'strange
flashing red light' plus other perceived phenomena, and headed
due east through farmland.

At this point, the most momentous event of that night was
documented on the microcassette recorder which Halt had taken
with him. The recording was later made public and a transcript
reads:

HALT: 3:05. At about ten degrees, horizon, directly north,
we've got two strange objects, er, half moon shape, dancing
about, with colored lights on 'em. At, er, guess to be about
five to ten miles out, maybe less. The half moons have now
turned into full circles as though there was an eclipse or
something there for a minute or two.

HALT: 03:15. Now we've got an object about 10 degrees directly
south, 10 degrees off the horizon. And the ones to the north
are moving. One's moving away from us.

1ST VOICE: Moving out fast.

2ND VOICE: This one on the right's heading away, too.

HALT: They're both heading north. Hey, here he comes from the
south, he's coming toward us now.

HALT: Now we're observing what appears to be a beam coming
down to the ground.

SHOUT IN BACKGROUND: [Unclear - possibly 'colors!' or 'take
cover!']

HALT: This is unreal.


At 0400, Halt's last remarks were, "One object still hovering
over Woodbridge base at about five to ten degrees off the
horizon, still moving erratic and similar lights and beaming
down as earlier".


One possible explanation is that stars were being mistaken for
moving aerial objects. However, it seems clear from the actual
tape that the first and second 'voices' are different and
added to Halt's observations, means that if stars were being
inadvertently assumed to be rapidly moving, then three people
had an identical optical aberration at the same time.

There's also the acute point that one of the 'celestial'
objects was observed and documented at the time to have not
only accelerated from the south, it sent down a beam of light
close to Halt's group.


During 1998, Halt was interviewed by American journalist AJS
(Salley) Rayl and elaborated:

"We've crossed the farmer's field past his house and across
the road, stumbled through a small stream and went out into a
large ploughed field. Somebody noticed several objects in the
sky to the north - three objects clearly visible with
multiple-colored lights on them. The objects appeared
elliptical and then they turned full round, which I thought
was quite interesting. All three doing that. They were
stationary for awhile and then they started to move at high
speed in sharp angular patterns as though they were doing a
grid search. About that same time, somebody noticed the south,
a similar object, it was round - did not change shape - and at
one point it appeared to come toward us at a very high speed.
It stopped overhead and sent down a small pencil-like beam,
sort of like a laser beam. It was an interesting beam in that
it stayed - it was the same size all the way down the beam. It
illuminated the ground about ten feet from us and we just
stood there in awe wondering whether it was a signal, a
warning, or what it was. We really didn't know."

"It clicked off as though someone threw a switch, and the
object receded, back up into the sky".

"Then it moved back toward Bentwaters and continued to send
down beams of light, at one point near the weapons storage
facility. We knew that, because we could hear the chatter on
the radio".

An incredible tale and somewhat disconcerting as the weapons
storage facility has long been rumoured to have housed nuclear
weapons.


The apparent intrusion was never solved by Halt and at a
subsequent staff meeting of the Third Air Force, he was
informed that as the incidents occurred on British soil, it
was a matter for the Ministry of Defence.

In 1993, American researcher Robert Todd, obtained a copy of
Halt's memo to the MoD, under the US Freedom of Information
Act (FOIA).

The Ministry have clarified in writing to myself and others
that they did investigate the affair and found nothing which
was 'of defence significance'. One reason cited is that
considerable time had elapsed between the incidents and
receiving Halt's brief memo.

There seems to be no evidence that Halt's memo resulted in a
thorough enquiry by the Ministry and Halt has expressed his
bewilderment that he didn't even receive an acknowledgement
from them.

Although some witnesses to both night's events have come
forward with their accounts since 1980, missing from the
contemporary evidence was a testimony from anyone who was on
duty in the weapons storage area (WSA) that night.

Until now.


Recently, I was contacted by a member of the 81st SPS who had
come across some lengthy articles I had written in 1998,
following extensive research into the case.

>From the information given, there seems no doubt that the
events he relates took place on the same date as Lt. Col.
(subsequently Colonel) Halt recorded his own experiences on
tape.


The witness is Randy D. Smith, an Honor Graduate from Air
Training Command.

A Security Specialist, Randy's Certificate of Appointment
confirms he was assigned to RAF Bentwaters with the
noncommissioned rank of Sergeant on 1 September, 1980.


Noting that any comments of my own, or clarifications, are
contained in square brackets, this is Sergeant Randy Smith's
story of what happened one night in late December, 1980:

"I was either a SrA.[Senior Airman] or Sgt. at the time. It
was Christmas time 1980. 'D' flight had been working the 3-
11pm shift, while 'C' flight had been working the 11pm-7am
shift.

It was a quiet, clear night. I believe I was working 'Whiskey
5' which was the alarm response team in the weapons storage
area on Bentwaters. I am unsure of my partner that night. I
had free range of one half of the WSA and I was driving a
pickup truck. Clarence George was my area supervisor. Rick
Bobo was the SPCDS [Small Permanent Communications Display
Segment -a 'computerized alarm system'] tower operator in the
WSA.

The next thing I recall, not long after the shift began,
perhaps midnight or so, I heard Bob Ball come over the radio
and request that the aircraft control tower give him
permission to cross the active runway, it saves 15 minutes
driving time, as opposed to driving the perimeter road. At
that point I knew SOMETHING was happening because no-one ever
crossed the active runway unless there was an extreme
emergency. Bob, perhaps logically accompanied by Lt. Bruce
Englund, crossed the runway on Bentwaters, they picked up Lt.
Col. Halt and some equipment and returned by the same route. I
would say that between 30 minutes to an hour had passed since
Bob made his first request to cross. They then proceeded to
recross the runway, and went out the back gate headed toward
RAF Woodbridge. After that, the radio was quiet for a long
time.

It was a very quiet night, no planes, no helicopters flying.
Clarence George came by to talk to me and he said that
everyone in the WSA was in the SPCDS tower watching 'lights'
and did I want to come check it out? So I did. Clarence
thought they were all crazy. It's a small tower and people
were jammed in there body to body, overloading the tower I'm
sure. More people than I've ever seen in the tower at one
time".

Randy's reported observation from the security tower was of
what appeared to be a silent, triangular-shaped craft,
hovering near the twin base complex.

It's an assertion which might be startling on its own.

Randy, however, states there were three of them.

"I asked what everyone was looking at and they pointed out 3
objects that appeared like stars to the naked eye. Binoculars
were being passed around and when I had my turn I saw VERY
CLEAR images of 3 triangular shaped craft that were hovering a
few miles away and above treetop level".

"They were triangular in shape, larger than a fighter jet, but
smaller than a C5. Definitely triangular with lights that were
arranged around the bottom that were perhaps different colors
but unable to distinguish at that distance. I only stayed in
the tower for an hour or so and heard one of the guys with a
turn on the binoculars say, 'Wow, it just took off'. Two of
the craft left at a high rate of speed. The one remaining
craft was still in position when I left the tower".

"Regarding sound-very quiet, no motor sounds whatsoever".

"I also remember hearing the radio traffic regarding the
light-alls [these were gas powered, portable lights which it's
known were being used that night and proved problematic] and
not working, replacing them, they didn't work, then much
later, they all worked fine".

"The following night, I went on duty. At guardmount, Bob Ball
was very serious, he's almost never serious, a very jovial
person. He said, 'I saw something last night, but I'm not at
liberty to discuss it'. And that was the 'end'. I later heard
that the morning we got off our first midnight shift, an A-10
was scrambled and sent to Ramstein, Germany, by Lt. Col.
Halt".


As for the 'beams of light' which Halt claims were being
reported on radio as coming down near the WSA, Randy has no
knowledge of this.

Randy, in fact, can't recall much of what happened afterwards:
"I remember leaving the tower and then I can remember as I was
riding my bicycle home I was thinking that I must have turned
in my weapon because I don't have it with me".

He couldn't think of any significant occurrences in-between.

Except for one thing..

Randy believes that at some point he was, "on top of the
structure near the bunker where you'd go if you were under
attack".

Why he may have thought the WSA was under attack, is something
that poses an enigma and one which Randy would like to
resolve.


In the past it's been claimed that RAF Bentwaters held a
'tactical nuclear weapons' stockpile, a fact not acknowledged
by the respective US and UK governments.

Some 20 years later, there's no obvious reason why that should
remain a vital secret and as one former serviceman was on
record as alleging that Bentwaters held the largest 'NATO
nuclear weapons dump', I asked if this entire issue might now
be clarified.

Randy's wife, Kathy, provided considerable assistance in
obtaining answers to what at times seemed an unreasonable
amount of questions. Fortunately, she fully appreciated it was
necessary to understand the context of this new evidence and
her patience, diligence and knowledge of the issues were
invaluable.

Kathy responded:

"Yes, of course there were small, 'hot', tactical nuclear
weapons at Bentwaters, as used on an F-16, not large as used
on B-52's and B-1's. However, Bentwaters probably had the
least weapons, not the 'largest NATO dump' by any means. The
WSA is the highest security area on the base. In a 'hot'
nuclear area, you employ the two man concept throughout the
entire area, no single person ever allowed around nukes".

"The bunkers would look like small hills. They were covered
with dirt and had grass growing on them sloped front to back.

There were about 10 bunkers total, the two large on the ends
and 8 all within the long middle section. All of these
contained 'hot' nuclear weapons. This was Rand's posted
position that night".

"Use of deadly force was authorized".

"The bunkers on each end were defensive fighting positions.
That was where Randy believes (98% positive) he was when
Tsgt.[Technical-Sergeant] Clarence George, the area
supervisor, approached him and asked if he wanted to go up in
the tower. That was where you would take position if you were
ever under attack, not where you'd ever be under normal
conditions".

"The bunker is the weapon storage facility itself, where the
nukes are stored. It has thick steel, double doors, 2 high
security padlocks, and the Munitions Maintenance Squadron were
the ONLY people authorized to enter these structures. Up on
top, the SP's [Security Police] had a defensive fighting
position - 2 short steel walls, with sandbags in between the
walls. The only time anyone ever went up there was during an
exercise to prepare for an attack. In case of an actual
attack, you would follow the procedures practiced during the
exercise. It was training or it was real, no gray areas.

He knows they weren't training that night.

He has tried to recall why he was there that night but simply
can't".


I pointed out that if his supervisor had found Randy in a
defensive position, rather than inviting him to watch some
'strange lights', wouldn't he first have enquired why Randy
thought the WSA was under attack?

Kathy replied:

"Regarding the inability to recall what happened after Randy
left the tower, and the less than 100% assuredness of being on
the bunker when Tsgt. George invited him to the tower. What if
he isn't sure because it was after he left the tower that he
took that position up on the bunker? Maybe at that point the
area supervisor would have joined him at that location. He
would be the one to be in charge of what actions to take if
the WSA was penetrated".

This was precisely the scenario I had wondered about. If Halt
is correct and those 'beams of light' described on tape were
being directed near the WSA, then it's evident from the timing
documented in Halt's recording and Randy's statement, that
this occurred after Randy had left the observation tower.

Questioned about the exact timings, although realising it was
so long ago, Kathy provided more details:

"He believes he heard the radio traffic re Ball crossing
active, 'around' midnight, could have been as early as 11:30.
He would have begun hearing about the light-alls having
problems around 1:00am. He would have gone up in the tower
between 1:50-2:00am. Stayed until 3:00-3:30, and doesn't
recall anything else, until riding bike home".


We know from Halt's crucial documentation that the most
puzzling 'aerial phenomena' occurred between 0300 and 0330. If
Randy and his colleagues were conceivably observing the same
objects and aware of their evidently sudden, rapid departure,
then during this time - 0300 to 0330 - Randy would have to be
in the tower.

It looks like he possibly was and may have left directly after
that 'excitement' had passed.

Whilst it's impossible to be certain about this, the timings
are at least coincidentally close, perhaps surprisingly so if
there's no relationship.


Assuming Randy's claims are accurate and two of the 'objects'
being observed from the tower departed rapidly or were no
longer visible, then as noted, we have people in the security
tower who are experiencing similar misperceptions at around
the same as Halt's group, who were some two miles away.

It's something which might be further clarified if we had
accounts from the dozen or so others who were in the tower.

Asked for any additional information in this respect, Kathy
cited:

"The tower operator was Sgt. Rick Bobo.

Others that could possibly have been there were: Mike Dahl,
Dan Grogul, Jim Gouge, Jim O'Farrell, Mike Christian, Mike
Smith.

The 15 men with clearance to be in the tower would be a
vehicle searcher from the entry control point, the shift
supervisor, tower operator, 8 in the alert fire team facility,
and two 2-man patrols. The entry controller and the alarm
monitor were the only 2 people in the area that could not
leave their posts, as far as he knows, bringing the total to
17 people within the WSA".

An explanation of what exactly took place within the WSA that
night might lie with these colleagues, most, if not all, of
whom have presumably long since returned to the US.


Could the observations reported by Randy simply have been
misidentified stars, perhaps distorted by the optically
imperfect glass windows of the observation tower, the use of
binoculars and further compounded by mist, haze, fog, ice
particles, etc.

The answer must be affirmative, there are many examples of
stars being misidentified as 'strange objects'.

Where this case notably differs is that Halt's tape recording
provides corroborative evidence that there was at around the
same time a documented observation of 'star-like' objects
which exhibited characteristics that can't easily, if at all,
be equated with stars.

Furthermore, a nearby resident, Gerry Harris, has testified
that earlier on the same night, he observed 'abnormal lights'
moving over the base complex:

"I stood watching them and they were going up and moving about
this way and that way and they were going up, they were coming
down and I watched them for, three quarters of an hour and,
all of a sudden, they disappeared.

But just before they went, before they disappeared, there was
a lot of activity on the base, I could hear vehicles running
about, I could see the flashing lights of vehicles moving
about and I could hear people shouting, it was quiet and the
wind must have been in this direction. I could hear their
voices and then they were calling to each other and then I
could hear the roaring of their vehicles, which at that time
of night was unusual".

It's against this overall background that Randy's account
needs to be placed in perspective.


Any conclusion about what may, or may not, have occurred
during these incidents is hampered by the absence of
testimonies from so many who participated.

Added to all who are identified above, are those that took
part in the first night's incident, when Burroughs, Cabansag
and Penniston pursued the source of 'peculiar lights' through
Rendlesham forest.

At Lt. Col Halt's request, Burroughs, Cabansag and Penniston,
plus the Flight Chief, Master-Sergeant J. D. Chandler and the
Shift Commander, Fred A. Buran [rank unknown], provided
written statements of their involvement in this first
incident.

I obtained copies of these witness affidavits last year and
they served as proof that Burroughs, Cabansag and Penniston
pursued a light through the forest and farm terrain for some
two miles, before realising it was the beacon from nearby
Orfordness lighthouse. This had never previously been
disclosed and confirmed the lighthouse was a factor.

The deceptive lighthouse beacon had been suggested as the
explanation for all that transpired, however, from a
painstaking analysis of the evidence, that seems impossible.

Two of the unidentified lights first observed from 'east gate'
were consistently mentioned in this early documentation as
'red and blue', for example, Burroughs described:

"On the night of 25-26 Dec at around 0300 while on patrol down
at east gate myself and my partner saw lights coming from the
woods due east of the gate. The lights were red and blue the
red one above the blue one and they were flashing on and off".

It's the source of these 'red and blue lights', seen from the
east gate and then reportedly moving through the forest, which
has never been determined.

>From the complete accounts, it seems evident that the 'beacon'
light later seen in the forest and which turned out to be from
Orfordness was a completely separate occurrence, for example,
Burroughs later attested:

"We climbed over the fence and started heading towards the red
and blue lights and they just disappeared. Once we reached the
farmer's house we could see a beacon going around so we went
towards it. We followed it for about 2 miles before we could
see it was coming from a lighthouse2.

Penniston indeed made the distinction, Chandler confirming:

"Each time Penniston gave me the indication that he was about
to reach the area where the lights were, he would give an
extended estimated location. He eventually arrived at a
'beacon light', however, he stated that this was not the light
or lights he had originally observed".

Buran verified:

"SSgt Penniston reported getting near the 'object' and then
all of a sudden said they had gone past it and were looking at
a marker beacon that was in the same general direction as the
other lights. I asked him, through SSgt Coffey, if he could
have been mistaken, to which SSgt Penniston replied that had I
seen the other lights I would know the difference. SSgt
Penniston seemed agitated at this point".

Staff-sergeant Coffey is another who might help our
understanding of this episode.


In Penniston's written testimony to Halt, he makes the
following claim:

"After receiving permission from CSC, we proceeded off base
past east gate, down an old logging road. Left vehicle
proceeded on foot. Burroughs and I were approximately 15-20
meters apart and proceeding on a true east direction from the
logging road. The area in front of us was lighting up a 30
meter area. When we got within a 50 meter distance. The object
was producing red and blue light. The blue light was steady
and projecting under the object. It was lighting up the area
directly under extending a meter or two out.

At this point of positive identification I relayed to CSC,
SSgt Coffey. Positive sighting of object...colour of lights
and that it was definitely mechanical in nature".

An anomaly is that Penniston then immediately added, "This is
the closest point that I was near the object at any point",
which differs markedly from his subsequent public claims to
have examined a triangular-shaped object at close range for
some 10-20 minutes and even touched 'strange symbols' on its
surface.

All of the statements gathered by Lt. Col. Halt seem to
support Penniston's original contention that the source of the
lights was in fact never located.

In later years Burroughs also acknowledged, "I never saw
anything metallic or anything hard".


The articles I published in 1998 specifically highlighted the
clear discrepancies between what was documented at the time
and the more elaborate tales later told. As it was hoped this
might lead to the anomalies being addressed and perhaps even
rationalised, some other aspects were left aside.

Consequently, a fact which is publicly divulged here for the
first time is that in their respective statements, Chandler
and Buran do confirm that Penniston radioed he had seen an
actual object, nor merely illusive lights.

Chandler wrote: "On one occasion, Penniston relayed that he
was close enough to the object to determine that it was
definitely a mechanical object", with Buran agreeing, "at one
point SSgt Penniston stated that it was a definite metallic
object".

Was it, or wasn't it and if so , what was it.

A key testimony is Ed Cabansag's
 and he has never spoken about
the events. I'm not aware that he has ever been located and
asked.


A close colleague of Burroughs and Penniston was Geraldo
Valdes-Sanchez, perhaps better known as Jerry Valdez.

Jerry contacted me in April, 1997 and recounted how he was
part of 'B' flight in the 81st SPS and a member of a patrol
which had been sent to check on Burroughs, Penniston and
Cabansag that first night.

Although I published the essence of Jerry's story, giving him
the pseudonym of 'Tom', that full story has never been told
before now:

"I was assigned to RAF Bentwaters in August of 1980.

I worked with Burroughs and Penniston. What they said was
true. As a matter of fact, the following statements are true
and can be verified by many people.

The acting squadron was the 81st. SPS and 'B' Flight was the
acting security force on duty. Burroughs and Penniston were on
'B' flight.

'A' flight was the day flight, daytime only.

The Guard at East gate was Amn [Airman] Burroughs and Amn
Beachum [it was actually Airman 1st Class John Burroughs and
Staff Sergeant Bud Steffans].

I was stationed on Security - 6 with either Amn Hartman or Sgt
Sauls. We saw the entire thing.

Shift change was from 26th at 2300 hrs till 0700 hrs of the
27th.

The top Flight Sgt on duty was MSgt Fail. Lt. Col. Halt was
not there the first night.

It was a bitterly cold night and clear.

Radio communications were disrupted on and off due to some
type of atmospheric disturbance. The radios weren't working at
all that night. There were 6 channels, called 'Queen', 'Queen
1', 'King 1' and so on. One channel was reserved for Law
Enforcement, one for RAF Bentwaters and the rest were open.

We switched channels all night.

Contact had been lost with Burroughs, Penniston and Beachum
[Steffans remained at 'east gate', the other participant was
Airman Ed Cabansag].

The base had an Alarm Response Team (ART) and a Security
Response Team (SRT).

Codes in use at that time and which have now been declassified
were 'Helping Hand' - a potentially hostile threat - and
'Covered Wagon' - a confirmed hostile threat.

If the first alert status was unresolved after 30 minutes, it
automatically became a confirmed, hostile threat.


The person on the post should have been Burroughs, but he was
missing, the weapons were missing and the phone was off the
hook.

This was around 2:00 a.m. [it's known this must have been
after 3.00 a.m.].

We were carrying weapons and were told to hold our position.
MSgt Fail went out.


I could clearly see the lights from the gate, just outside the
back gate [east gate]. It was next to the road.

They were intermittent lights, very bright, 15-20 feet above
the ground.

They were pulsating and from what I recall there were 3
lights, red green and blue.

It made no noise, but it defied gravity. It was really weird
and scary. We all knew what we were looking at, but no one
really came out and said it.

I saw them, so did Amn Beachum, Amn Hartman, Amn Randy
Hernandez.

Burroughs and Penniston finally showed up. I somehow think
something happened to them. They were acting strange.

We were then told to go back to our posts.


Shift change in the morney for 'B' flight was extremely late.
'A' Flight relieved us at 9:30 am, very late.

When we went out the East gate back to Bentwaters, leaving
Woodbridge, there were many people, including numerous people
in typical lab coats making an analysis of the area. You could
see out the vehicle to the right side, that there were many
people examining the area, searching, looking for something.
Some of these people were in white overcoats, that's why I say
that they looked like typical techs in lab coats.

They were searching the area in front of the forest.

The 'few branches' that were broken off were not a few, it was
a lot, a huge area had been cleared. There were trees missing.

I also saw Bobbys [British Policemen] and little white police
cars.

I was pointing these things out and Hartman says, 'Valdez,
shut up about that [or words to that effect]'.

I was green.


I know that they got pictures and hard evidence of this thing.

Penniston told me he shot a roll of film, but it had been
confiscated.

The base had a problem with 'bird watchers', people who were
suspected to be Russian spies. The base security personnel had
to photograph anyone who showed an interest in the base
activities. Penniston may have had a loaded camera in his
duffel bag.

[Note: it was only last year that Penniston first revealed he
had taken photographs of the perceived 'object' in the forest
- Penniston states he was told the photographs 'didn't come
out', which is likely as they were taken within a dense forest
in the dark of night].


A lot of people staked the place out on the second night. The
crew on duty then was 'C' Flight, 'B' Flight had just finished
its last midnight shift for the cycle. Halt's night was 'C'
shift.

The starlight scope mentioned by Lt. Col. Halt [referred to in
Halt's recording], fits on top of an M16. There were no night
vision binoculars in those days.

There were a large number of light-alls in the forest and I
wondered how they had got them all in there. We always had
problems with them. This was 17 years ago, not today's
technology.

If Charles [Halt] says a beam of light shone down at his feet,
then a beam of light shone down at his feet. You can take that
to the bank.


As far as people that saw or knew about this incident, there
were well over 30 security people who swept the area looking
for Beachum [Cabansag], Burroughs and Penniston, who were
missing.

Everyone involved on the 26th and 27th is listed in the
Security Police Blotter AF Form 53.

Woodbridge security and LE [Law Enforcement] can verify
everything. The Deskblotter AF Form 53 has a complete account
of the entire event.

Also, try and get a hold of the form 'Incident Complaint
Report 1569'.

[Note: I requested these documents under the US FOIA and was
eventually advised they would have been destroyed after 2-3
years per normal procedures].


It happened 17 years ago, but I remember it clearly. Here are
some more details:

Other Security Forces involved in incident were Security
Flight Leader, Msgt Fail, Security One, Col. Schultz, Chief of
Security Police, Buckholst [spelling uncertain] and Central
Security Controller, Chandler [Chandler was the Flight Chief
on 'C' flight].

It happened and a lot of people know about it".


What exactly happened remains the mystery.

The people in 'lab coats' are a singular puzzle. Their
presence is substantiated by another testimony on record,
which refers to them as being from 'environmental health'.

Did the base complex have an environmental health division and
why such a rapid response to a sighting of 'odd lights' - this
was only a few hours after the initial incident and it was
during the holiday period.


Staff Sergeant William A. Kirk Jr., was "NCOIC of the
Telecommunications Facility located next to the Commanders
hut".

Also published for the first time is his account as told to me
of the apparent high-level communications traffic after the
'UFO' incident. He wasn't sure which of the two incidents this
followed, however, it was recalled:

"At the time, I was posted on temporary duty to RAF Bentwaters
from RAF Martlesham Heath.

When I showed for duty, communications was running at a peak,
and stayed that way. Many users complained because of busy
signals or being 'bumped'.

Radio traffic between RAF Bentwaters and RAF Martlesham Heath
was full. Switch Techs at Martlesham complained to me of a
great deal of 'Flash' traffic.

Radio Communications Techs at Bentwaters complained about the
amount of traffic. Bentwaters Switchboard Operators remarked
about how 'busy' it was.

I noted increased personnel traffic into the commanders
office. I naturally assumed that an alert or recall was
possible or starting. NATO seemed to have a great deal of them
over the previous year. Whatever the reason, it was a very
busy day for telecommunications traffic".


I asked William he could clarify the nature of 'flash traffic'
and he helpfully obliged:

"American military telephone traffic (AUTOVON = automatic
voice network) has some small differences to regular telephone
communications. The telephone set is push button (long before
the general public had push buttons). 4 extra buttons are
located to the left of the 1 - 4 - 7 - * buttons. They are
labelled P, I, F, FO (P = priority, and is located next to 1),
(I = immediate, located next to 4), (F = flash, located next
to 7), (FO = flash override, next to *). VERY few people had
access to autovon phones and usually there was about one to
two per office area. Usually they were contained at a desk
with a person of higher rank. EVEN fewer were given the power
to use the buttons. Just because you had them did not mean you
could use them. The more important you were, the higher power
you had to 'bump'.

If you were talking on a normal telephone call, just like if
you were to pick up the telephone right now and call a friend,
and I called you, I would hear a busy tone. Well... if I had
the power, I would hang up, push the P button, touch in the
number again, and BANG, you were disconnected from your
friend, you would get a special ring, and there I would be.
Your friend would be high and dry.... HOWEVER if your friend
had the power to call on an Immediate precedence, he could
"bump" me. If I had flash.... well you get the point by now.
Few people had an autovon telephone, fewer had the use of the
P button, even fewer had the use of the I button, less the F
(usually commanders), and only the President and such had use
of the FO button".

As "only the senior base officials had access to 'Flash',
usually commanders", it appears there was an exceptional
amount of communications traffic using the highest base
priority and also, possibly substantiating this, greater than
normal activity in the 'commanders office'.

Again, it was the holiday period, so what was this all about?

It brings us full circle and poses the question; was any of
this related to the incidents and specifically concerns about
nuclear weapons?


How can Randy be so certain about what he claims to have seen.

It's a question I put to him in a number of ways, querying for
example:

- was there any cloud cover and if so, were the objects ever
covered by cloud or definitely lower than clouds

- if the latter, what was their altitude with respect to the
forest trees and did the altitude noticeably change (it would
have altered if they were stars)

- was it easy to keep the objects centred in the binoculars'
viewfinder (using hand held binoculars and due to inadvertent
body movement, it's extremely difficult to focus steadily on
stars).

He responded:

"In regards to cloud cover, I remember the night as being
clear. If there were clouds, these objects were lower than the
clouds. As you state, clouds would block out stars, these
objects were never blocked out.

It wasn't even the lights that were important. It was the
shape that made us realize what we were looking at.

It's hard to determine how far above the trees these craft
were. Best guess, several hundred feet above the ground. They
weren't 'just above' treetop, but they weren't really that
high either.

They didn't noticeably change altitude while I was looking.
They also didn't appear to be stationary-like a star would
have been. More like viewing say a helicopter that's hovering
very smoothly. i.e. no or very little yaw, and no buck. And
yes, they were always perceived to be the same distance above
the trees while I was viewing. There was only one pair of
binoculars in the tower and not on a tripod. The objects were
steady in the viewfinder and it wasn't really difficult to
keep them centered.

You also ask about the tower's windows. They are not angled
outwards as with an aircraft control tower. The windows aren't
as big as in an aircraft control tower. The window glass is
thick and bullet resistant. However, I don't believe my view
was either impeded nor distorted by this glass. It's designed
to be an OBSERVATION tower, I OBSERVED 3 triangular craft with
lights, my vision was and is perfect, the area of observation
was clear. There is NO DOUBT in my mind whatsoever".


>From lengthy discussions, Randy has provided finite details of
the perceived objects, all of which seemed to be identical,
together with a drawing.

The shape is effectively an upright pyramid, Randy being
uncertain whether it may have been flat-surfaced or conical.
However, he believed the objects were cone-shaped as they
"didn't look to be so flat as an actual pyramid".

The lights underneath, which "created somewhat of a backlit
effect enabling the shape of the crafts to be seen clearly",
were observed to be 8-10 rectangular blocks, arranged in a
circle.


Randy's claim to have perfect vision has substance. He retired
from the services in 1995 and I noticed from his 'Certificate
of Release or Discharge' that he was an expert marksman with
both pistol and rifle.

Subsequent enquiries revealed that during his later service at
Fort Drum between 1992-94, Randy was on the SRT (SWAT) team
for three years.

For eighteen months of that stint, Randy was a sniper.


Asked for her own recollections, specifically if Randy
confided details at the time of what he observed, Kathy
related how Randy was visibly shaken when he returned home and
confirmed, "Yes, he told me the description of the crafts
early in the morning following his shift".

Kathy added, "Randy never considered his information to be all
that important because so many saw the same thing from the
tower and others had more rank and authority".


I forwarded an Ordnance survey map showing both bases and
asked Randy if he would indicate on this where the WSA was,
plus the direction of his observation. He has also provided a
detailed sketch of the WSA, identifying where the objects were
observed.

The three objects were in close proximity, as Kathy explained:

"He said he could estimate the distance to the craft a bit
more accurately if he KNEW how big the craft were up close and
then compare to the apparent size due to distance. He
obviously could not make that comparison. They could very well
have been much closer, perhaps as close as 1-2 miles. It's
very difficult to judge distance due to so many unknown
variables.

He states, 'They weren't real close, and they weren't real far
away'.

They shimmered like large bright stars to the naked eye. Randy
directed the binoculars to the one on the far right, focused,
and could immediately distinguish the triangular shaped craft
with the bank of shimmery lights underneath. He got the
impression of colors shimmering in the silvery white light.
Then scanned slightly left and saw identical 2nd craft,
scanned further left and saw the 3rd identical craft. The 2 on
the right were closer together than the one to the left. No
two could be seen simultaneously. He spent at least 15
minutes scanning back and forth, they seemed to hold their
positions in a 'hover'. Passed the binoculars, next time
around, not sure how much later, on 2nd turn, all 3 craft were
still visible seemingly in the same positions. After several
minutes, passed the binoculars to, perhaps, Rick Bobo, he was
next to Randy, and he may have been the one to say, 'WOW, they
just TOOK OFF!', implying with great speed".

"Not sure what it was hovering over, his best guess would be
the forest. He does not know if they showed up on radar or
not, does not know if Lakenheath or Heathrow were called. Not
aware of anything in the local or base press".


As the three 'objects' were approximately to the south-west of
RAF Bentwaters and two of three documented by Halt were to the
north (the other to the south), then if they were all stars,
there had to be, at least four, if not an astonishing FIVE
separate stars, which gave rise to the misperceptions.

James McGaha, 'technical consultant' for the Committee for
Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP),
suggested that the lights Halt observed - two in the north and
one to the south - were almost certainly, if not
unquestionably, the stars Vega, Deneb and Sirius,
respectively.

Science writer Ian Ridpath, who has a considerable knowledge
of the case history, was asked for his opinion on Randy's
testimony and believes that from the description of their
positions, the right-hand star was Rigel, the one to the left
was Saiph (Kappa Orionis) and to the far left was Sirius.

It's understandable why Ian concludes these three objects were
also stars, however, as noted, there are conversely reasons to
conclude otherwise.

If not stars and they were in fact infinitely closer, possibly
'objects' above the base complex, then there may only have
been three prominent, unfamiliar aerial objects, as reported
by the base observers.

In a separate interview with AJS Rayl from last year, Halt was
asked for his opinion on the idea that some form of
'psychological warfare' may have been involved. He dismissed
this, stating:

"The idea that we or the British would be testing some kind of
psychological warfare just outside one of the most sensitive
NATO bases in Europe, where civilians could possibly be
involved doesn't make any sense either".

"We can do some very interesting things alright, but some of
the men in the weapons storage area saw the objects in the sky
as well as the object that projected the pencil-like beam -
and they were a mile and a half away, maybe two from where we
were, and I question whether or not they could have been
influenced by some kind of projection. I don't think so, not
at that distance".

If other personnel in the WSA did report seeing the same
'objects', it's a significant confirmation of Sergeant Randy
Smith's testimony.


Despite so many intervening years, the truth is proverbially
out there and it's hoped the evidence deliberated here may yet
result in new information coming to light.

If anyone can directly assist in finally answering the many
questions highlighted, or provide contact details for the
personnel mentioned, I would obviously be delighted to hear
from them.



James Easton.
E-mail: pulsar@easynet.co.uk
Web site: http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/

Copyright of James Easton,
5 April, 1999.


Appendix:

The following documents from Sergeant Randy Smith are
available on my web site:

Certificate - Honor Graduate from Air Training Command, 21
April, 1978 - Security Specialist:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/graduate.gif


Letter designating the award of Honor Graduate:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/graduat2.gif


Certificate of completed training - US Army Marksmanship Unit:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/marksman.gif


Certificate of Appointment as a Sergeant, RAF Bentwaters,
1 September, 1980:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/appoint.gif


Certificate of Recognition for "Outstanding Contributions" at
RAF Bentwaters:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/recogn.jpg


Certificate of Appreciation and Citation from Strategic Air
Command for duties involving "47 Primary Nuclear Airlift Force
missions":

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/sac.gif


Certificate from 10th Military Police Battalion, Fort Drum in
recognition of "outstanding participation" during a
presidential visit on 15 March, 1994:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/10th_mil.gif


Certificate of Release or Discharge - Page 1:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/release1.gif

Certificate of Release or Discharge - Page 2:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/release2.gif


Detailing drawing of RAF Bentwaters weapons storage area
(WSA), showing the nuclear weapons bunkers, the approximate
direction of reported observations and the defensive
positions:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/pulsar/wsa.jpg


Ordnance Survey (OS) map, showing RAF Bentwaters, RAF
Woodbridge and surrounding area. The weapons storage area and
approximate direction of the reported observations have been
added by Sergeant Smith:






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   Apr > Apr 7

                 Arthur Koestler On USAF's 'Condon' Cover-Up

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:36:04 +0200 (MET DST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 09:00:02 -0400
Subject: Arthur Koestler On USAF's 'Condon' Cover-Up


Source:

http://www.webpage.com/hindu/daily/990406/13/13060172.htm

Koestler is famous for his novels, essays ('The Yogi and the
Commissar') and philosophical studies ('The Ghost in the
Machine').

Stig

***

The Hindu - India's National Newspaper

Tuesday, April 06, 1999

SECTION: Features

Not alone in the universe?

Date: 06-04-1999 :: Pg: 23 :: Col: a

ALIEN BASE - The Evidence for Extra-terrestrial Colonization of
Earth: Timothy Good; Arrow Books Ltd. Received from Ajay Parmer
& Co., Market Managers for Random House International, Post Box
No. 7208, First Floor, Arun House, 2/25, Ansari Road, New Delhi-
110002. 6.99 Pound.

In his Janus, a collection of articles published in 1966, Arthur
Koestler, the celebrated author of Darkness at Noon and a number
of other books, came out with a blistering attack on the U.S.
Air Force for having suppressed a report on unidentified flying
objects (UFOs) written by an investigating team of the
University of Colorado, headed by Dr. Edward Condon.

When the Condon team which was in fact commissioned by itself
came out with its report confirming the truth about UFOs and
alien visitors to the Earth, the USAF decided not to make its
contents known. Instead, it issued a secret memorandum to Dr.
Robert Low, a coordinator for the Colorado project, to throw
doubts over the findings of the Condon report about the extra-
terrestrial spaceships as being nothing more than either
vehicles built on the Earth or as hallucinations.

In his sensational disclosure about the secret memorandum, Mr.
Koestler said that Dr. Low was asked to attribute a
credulousness to the members of the Condon team. The Low
memorandum suggested that this could be done by limiting the
recording of the witnesses to those of doubtful credibility and
poor perceptions.

The purpose of questioning the truth about the sightings of UFOs
was to ensure against the spread of panic among the people
resulting from the reported alien visitations since the U.S. Air
Force was scared of the possibility of a repetition of the
scenes of fear and frenzy exploding immediately after a radio
play based on H. G. Wells' The War of the Worlds in the U.S. was
broadcast in the early Thirties.

If the U.S. Air Force believed that it could destroy the
credibility of the reports about the very large number of
sightings of and encounters with the UFOs, Mr. Timothy Good's
present book, giving a very detailed and exhaustive description
of the same, forcibly suggests that it should have failed. It
is, however, surprising that there is no reference in his book
to Koestler's Janus which was perhaps the first and the most
devastating exposure of the USAF's moves to suppress the truth
and it mentions only briefly the Condon report and the Low
memorandum. This book takes the thread from where it had left it
in his Above Top Secret and Alien Liaison.

The very large number of eyewitness accounts given by persons of
unquestionable integrity - with a few of them from the USAF
itself - about the space ships from other planets and their
encounters with the aliens could conclusively establish the
dishonesty which had gone into the doctoring of the findings of
the Condon report with the Low memorandum.

If, however, ETs had indeed come to Earth, there will have to be
convincing answers to many questions. The huge expanse of space
- which is said to be still expanding - and the millions of
stellar systems having their own planets in orbit - imparts a
certainty to the evolution of life in quite a sizable number of
planets of other stars even if they add up only to a small
percentage.

The other question, the efforts to answer which throw the
biggest challenge to human imagination, is whether the forms of
life could not be totally alien to what is known to us in Earth
and subject to an entirely different and unintelligible physics
and chemistry.

The space scientists do not seem to have any answer to this
question though a very strained effort is made by Mr. Good in
his book to take note of them. He perhaps knows that the
credibility of the accounts he gives about the large number of
persons who had seen UFOs and the many who had encounters with
them will be questioned.

The space probes which have so far been made by the U.S.
National Aeronautic and Space Administration have established
that the Earth is the only inhabited planet in the solar system.

Mr. Good, however, quotes quite a number of witnesses about
visitors from Mars and Venus looking very much like human
beings. This is indeed difficult to believe and the sceptics
would attribute this to the credulousness of the witnesses of
the sightings. One of the witnesses, George Adamski, invited
heavy ridicule for his accounts of his encounters with ETs from
Venus. It also appears that English has long graduated as the
inter- galactic language between the ETs and those they had met
in Earth.

At least quite a few of those who thought that they had run into
the landing ETs later became doubtful whether they had only seen
a ``pantomime of unrealities.'' Others had an uneasy feeling of
having witnessed something ``that did not actually exist, an
impression of disconnected sequences only found in dreams.''

A number of other aliens left those whom they had run into on
the Earth with the conviction that they were coming from far
more advanced civilisations and a science and technology which
our planet would not be able to match for a long time to come.

Mr. Good does provide a few glimpses of the advanced levels of
technology which the denizens of the other planetary systems
light years away from ours have possibly reached.

This could be seen from the long and striking description by
Daniel Fry, Vice-President of Crescent Engineering and Research
Company in California, of the alien space ship he had seen and
what he had heard from a ``voice'' coming to him from the depths
of space. ``Perhaps you noticed,'' he was told, ``that the hull
(of the alien space ship) seemed unusually smooth and slippery.
That is because your flesh did not actually come into contact
with the metal but was held for a short distance from it by the
repulsion of the field. We use the field to protect the hull
from being scratched or damaged during landings.''

The alien is also reported as having told Fry, ``you have no
idea of the amount of close range observation to which your
planet has been subjected by passing spacecraft during the past
few generations.''

This book is replete with exhaustive accounts of the encounters
with ETs by those who had run into them and also who were
``abducted'' by them but were later released. There is a number
of striking photographs of the landing of flying saucers and of
one or two hideous looking ETs - and not of the attractive and
radiant beings he writes about.

We shall perhaps have to wait for a long while and for a much
larger number of persons in the Earth to run into ETs before Mr.
Good could prove beyond doubt that what he has been told by UFO
witnesses is true and that we are not - to parody the haunting
lines from Coleridge's celebrated Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner:

Alone, alone, all alone

Alone on a wide, wide space.


CVG





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   Apr > Apr 7

                ETH And ORH [was: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate]

From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:37:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 09:09:26 -0400
Subject: ETH And ORH [was: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate]


>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:53:07 -0400
>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>>Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:11:43 EDT
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>>To: updates@globalserve.net


I fail to see the real difference between the ETH and the ORH.
It's pretty clear that a significant number of UFO cases cannot
realistically be dismissed as mistaken natural or manmade
phenomena.

Therefore, we are left with the nagging question of "What are
they?"

I admit to being prejudiced towards objectively real (whatever
that might be!) descriptions, over subjective psychically based
descriptions. And when we get to deliberate government
conspiracies of deception to fool and control the superstitious
and ignorant masses, that's where you lose me.

I've seen these objects four times. And each time was with other
sober and competent co-witnesses.

I know a bit about physics. Yet, I was unable to rationally
explain what I, and others with me saw. So, where do we go from
there?

I don't think it's any more of an intellectual stretch to
rationalize these objects as truly extraterrestrial in origin,
than it is to say they are hitherto unknown psycho cultural
memetic manifestations, or even stretching further, some kind of
ancient human secret society or theogeo-political control scam.





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   Apr > Apr 7

              Security Cleared Witnesses [was: UFO*BC Updates]

From: YourName - Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 22:46:30 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 09:18:18 -0400
Subject: Security Cleared Witnesses [was: UFO*BC Updates]


>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:00:46 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO*BC Updates

>>Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:43:53 -0400
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO*BC Updates

><snip>

>>None of the Roswell witnesses have been able to provide any
>>tangible proof that their allegations are accurate, so there
>>hasn't been anything to prosecute them for, so I wouldn't
>>necessarily use that as a factor to prove that there is no
>>danger to potential witnesses who come forward to disclose what
>>may be secrets involving National security.

><snip>

>The above statement's phrasing is a good example of what happens
>if you fail to re-read an entire paragraph after making
>modifications to sections within it.  I think I got the point
>across, but it also show why I'm not a writer.

>I apologize for the bad grammer.

Steve, apologies accepted.<g>

Just think, if a large number of Greer's witnesses went public
at the same time it would be a field day for the press. If the
government tried to prosecute them it would create a larger
public issue and perhaps the press would support them and their
data.

Attempts at prosecution may not be a wise move from the feds.
That would bring a lot of favorable attention to the UFO issue
and perhaps strong demands that the government come clean for
once.

I will forward my posts to Dr. Greer, suggesting that he try to
coordinate a press conference where a mass of witnesses who held
security clearances testify and provide supporting data.

Look what a mess it has been amongst us over the MJ12 documents.
Sarah McClendon is on our side and she can rally the top
reporters. Let's go for it and force the government's hand.






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   Apr > Apr 7

                       RAMS - Bell Admits 'Porno Rap'?

From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:46:16 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 09:48:27 -0400
Subject: RAMS - Bell Admits 'Porno Rap'?


Thought I'd let you all know:

Bell called another web radio host and revealed that the
allegations are true about his porno background. Also, he was
involved in the same in San Deigo CA, which he also admitted.

The transcript will be posted on the Behold website when we get
enough bandwidth to get the site back up. The hits for the first
9 hours were near a million hits. We need a little more than
56Mb for 60 days to cover that sort of traffic in one day. We
had projected 60,000 hits for 30 days. We erred.

Should you not believe me, write Bell himself and ask him:

ArtBell@aol.com

I'm so sure he would love to tell you
all about, since he is so open on things.

Or call him from the .pdf documents here:

http://www.spamhaus.simplenet.com/haus/news/behold_documents.html


What a culture, er, religion.........

-- sincerely,


Robert A.M.Stephens
NASA Documentation Program
Stillwater Mills-Aerospace
KSC-PIB/shuttle/MSF
406-745-3818
sti3818@montana.com
http://198.116.116.10/gallery/arts/samples/.html
http://members.iquest.net/~wubi/behold/
http://www.cdfnet.com/INTERVIEWS


Dissent is my Business.
Business is Good.





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   Apr > Apr 7

                Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:28:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 12:47:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion


>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700
>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

<snip>

>The page ostensibly shows some super-secret reconnaisance
>satellite called "Silver Veil." Particularly notice the first
>illustration titled "SV OV-Prime." Scroll to the bottom of the
>page where an asterisk denotes something Stephens calls a
>"Femptophoton Analysis Module." To quote from Stephens's site,
>"Faster than the speed of light (+Sol) detector and analysis
>module for intruder assessment requiring extraordinary
>reconnaissnace interpretation," whatever the hell that's
>supposed to mean.

>First off, nothing travels faster than light. Physics 101,
>moron.

<snip>

Kim and list,

Let me first say that I am not a fan of RAMS.  Indeed, I am sure
that the moon rotates on its axis and that F117's are not used
as interceptors, to address two of his statements which were
obviously erroneous.  However, we cannot rely on Physics 101
when judging today's technology.  Take a look at:

http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/tors/tors3.html

Quoting from paragraph 14:

"The torsion field is an extremely unusual entity. First of all,
the upper limit for the speed of torsion waves is estimated to
be not less than 10^9 c, where c is the speed of light."

If you read the entire paper and other papers on the site:

http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/tors/

you will see that many Russian scientists are presently
conduction *experiments* in torsion communications.  This effect
is *exactly* the same effect that Podkeltnov called
gravitomagnetism (=torsion) in his antigravity experiments.
(BTW, NASA just let a $600k contract to an Ohio superconductor
company to make a 12" disk so they can confirm Podkletnov's
findings.)

I am a communications engineer with over 20 years experience in
radio communications and these Russian scientists have almost
convinced me that FTL communications is possible using the
torsion field.  AND I am rapidly becoming convinced that FTL
travel is doable through gravity manipulation.

One interesting note:  if you can manipulate gravity, you can
manipulate time.  Podkletnov's gravity modification experiments
utilized a rotating superconducting disk.  I used to laugh when
I read and watched HG Wells' _The Time Machine_ when this
scientist would travel through time by sitting in front of a
rotating disk.  I don't know if Wells was a time traveler or an
alien; but, he was one heck of a visionary.

Regards,






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                Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 07:05:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 12:53:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion


>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700
>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

<snip>

>The page ostensibly shows some super-secret reconnaisance
>satellite called "Silver Veil." Particularly notice the first
>illustration titled "SV OV-Prime." Scroll to the bottom of the
>page where an asterisk denotes something Stephens calls a
>"Femptophoton Analysis Module." To quote from Stephens's site,
>"Faster than the speed of light (+Sol) detector and analysis
>module for intruder assessment requiring extraordinary
>reconnaissnace interpretation," whatever the hell that's
>supposed to mean.

>First off, nothing travels faster than light. Physics 101

<snip>

Silver Veil/Femptophoton Technology and faster than light
registration is available for viewing at:

uc.berkeley.org.ca.us

Begin here:

http://www.physics.berkeley.edu/research


If anyone cares to look.



-- sincerely,


Robert A.M.Stephens
NASA Documentation Program
Stillwater Mills-Aerospace
KSC-PIB/shuttle/MSF
406-745-3818
sti3818@montana.com
http://198.116.116.10/gallery/arts/samples/.html
http://members.iquest.net/~wubi/behold/
http://www.cdfnet.com/INTERVIEWS


Dissent is my Business.
Business is Good.







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   Apr > Apr 7

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 99 09:35:11 PDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:25:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:53:07 -0400
>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>With the Duke's compliments:

>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>>Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:11:43 EDT
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>>To: updates@globalserve.net


Patient and gentle listfolk:

>In part I was also needling Jerome Clark over his own lack of
>commitment to his own arguments. If Brad wants to consider
>Jerome's work as "literary interpretations" and Jerome as a
>closet (and by inference guilt-ridden) literary critic in the
>dappled world of ufology, that is fine by me. It would at least
>explain some of his more spectacular apoplexies at the PSH -
>which, as we've just seen, does not even have to be mentioned to
>release a fine spray of irrelevant blather, but which so often
>deals in narrative details.

Interesting that the ever more apoplectic Peter lets loose with
a fine spray of irrelevant blather all over the hated Jerome
Clark when I am not remotely the issue Brad is discussing here.
Brad's subject, on which he is splendidly eloquent, is  the
repeatedly demonstrated inadequacy of "skeptical" arguments
against puzzling and suggestive UFO reports.

>>It is incumbent on skeptics to tackle the unexplained best UFO
>>cases on these lists published by the pre-eminent Jacques
>>Vallee in 1966 and by Ron Story and Richard Greenwell in 1981.

>Not at all. Of course it's gratifying to have an explanation, but
>it's not obligatory. Skeptics are obliged to do no more than
>demonstrate the flaws in the data and their interpretation by
>True Believers. This is particularly true of the ETH, which
>essentially goes from "unexplained" to "alien presence" in one
>leap, often without even considering (let alone demolishing)
>psychosocial factors.

The usual sort of grotesque simplicities with which "skeptics"
mount what pass for arguments.  There is a lot of naive and just
plain dumb writing about the ETH, but in science (and, ideally,
even in list exchanges) it is always the best arguments and
evidence that are at issue, not the worst.  Understandably,
given a position sufficiently at risk that it is reduced to
grasping at those human straws Klass and Menzel, Peter would
prefer for us to concentrate on the former.

For examples of thoughtful writing on the ETH -- writing, in
other words, that, right or wrong, in no way validates the crude
stereotyping Peter employs above -- see Michael Swords's various
papers (the very mention of which typically drive Peter into
arm-waving rant and insult) and the bibiographies appended to
his "Extraterrestrial Hypothesis and Science" and my
"Extraterrestrial Hypothesis and Ufology" in The UFO
Encyclopedia, 2nd Ed. In addition, I recommend the informed,
carefully reasoned writings, available on line, of the admirable
Mark Cashman.

In any event, as several of us by-now nearly deafened recipients
of "skeptical" bombast have pointed repeatedly to no avail, at
this stage the discussion ought to focus on investigation,
documentation, and analysis of the most evidential UFO cases.
(Two recent examples: Brad's paper on the RB-47 case and Ted
Phillips's forthcoming magnum opus on the Delphos CE2.)
Speculation about the Greater Meaning of It All has to be a
distinctly secondary concern until we know a lot more than we
know now.  Actually, I suspect that Peter's and others' fervent
desire to make us believe defense of the ETH must be put ahead
of all else betrays their own deep-seated suspicion that their
own arguments are as wanting as their critics have always held
them to be.

Jerry Clark






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                         Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:46:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:29:49 -0400
Subject: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


Forwarded from the SETI maillist FYI

---

Were Kenneth Arnold's UFOs Actually Meteor-Fireballs?


From Skeptics' UFO Newsletter #46: July 1997

http://site034145.primehost.com/articles/0697/arnold.htm

by Philip J. Klass,

Recent research by San Francisco Examiner science writer Keay
Davidson -- sparked by a conversation with SUN's editor --
suggests that the stream of 'Unidentified Flying Objects' reported
50 years ago by private pilot Kenneth Arnold -- which triggered
the UFO era -- may have been glowing meteor-fireball fragments.
Davidson learned from a recent book on meteors (Rocks from Space)
authored by O. Richard Norton, that the number of meteorite falls
reaches a Peak around 3 p.m. Arnold's sighting occurred around 3
p.m. In the northern hemisphere, the greatest number of meteorite
entries reported over 160 years (1900 to 1960) occur during the
mouth of June. Arnold's historic sighting occurred on the 24th of
June, 1947.

Arnold said his attention was first attracted to the UFOs "when a
bright flash reflected on my airplane." In Arnold's report to the
Air Force, he said that "two or three of them every few seconds
would dip or change their course slightly, just enough for the sun
to strike them at an angle that reflected brightly on my plane."
Understandably, Arnold assumed that the objects were metal craft
reflecting the sunlight.

The flight crew of American Airlines' eastbound night #112, flying
at 39,000 ft. on June 5, 1969, around 6 p.m., had a similar
encounter with a squadron of four UFOs coming out of the east
which appeared to be on a near-collision course. The brightness of
the four objects was also assumed to be a reflection of the sun
off metal objects. This "squadron of UFOs" also was reported by
the flight crew of an eastbound United Airlines jetliner, flying
at 37,000 ft., eight miles behind American, and also by an
eastbound Air National Guard fighter pilot, flying at 41,000 ft.,
four miles behind United. The military pilot reported that the
squadron of UFOs appeared to execute a climbing maneuver --
seemingly to prevent a mid-air collision.

This 1969 incident would have become a classic "unexplained
multiple-pilot UFO case" but for an alert newspaper photographer
in Peoria, Ill., named Alan Harkrader, who managed to take a
picture of the UFOs. Harkrader's photo showed that the squadron of
UFOs was really a fragmenting meteor-fireball. When a meteor
enters the atmosphere at a speed of roughly 10,000 miles per hour,
it electrifies (ionizes) the air and creates a long, luminous
teardrop-shaped object. Meteor fragments generate similar luminous
tails. (Harkrader's photo shows only two objects, but he told me
that while winding the film in the hope of getting a second shot,
another fragment broke off and fell into trail. The incident
occurred in broad daylight but Harkrader stopped-down the lens
aperture to enhance contrast.) Analysis of Harkruder's photo,
which showed a nearby electric power line, plus numerous reports
from ground observers, enabled the Smithsonian Center for
Short-Lived Phenomena to determine the approximate trajectory of
the fireball. Despite the fact that two senior airline flight
crews and a military pilot believed that they had nearly collided
with the squadron of UFOs near St. Louis, the Smithsonian
scientists determined that the fireball trajectory was
approximately 125 miles north of St. Louis.

This St. Louis UFO case shows that even experienced pilots who
briefly see something which is unfamiliar can have flawed
recollections of what they observed.

Numerous sightings of fireballs in late June resulting from debris
from Comet Pons -- Winnecke -- called the "June Draconids" or
"June Bootids" -- were reported by David Swann of Dallas, Texas,
in the April 1981 issue of Meteor News. Swann noted that the
timing of "this meteor stream is June 27-30 with the visual
maximum usually occurring on the morning of either June 28 or June
29. The velocity of these meteors is very slow .... Several
intense displays have been seen, most notable those of 1916, 1921,
and 1927. The display of June 28, 1916, produced visual rates of
50-100 meteors per hour." Swann reported six of his own fireball
sightings between 1964 and 1971 which had been observed in the
June 26-30 period, around or shortly after midnight.

Arnold's Original Report

Because Arnold subsequently embellished his story slightly in his
1952 book The Coming of the Saucers, it is important to rely on
his original account, as reported to the Air Force. Arnold
originally emphasized that the length of the objects was about 20
times their width, which would match the long luminous tail of a
meteor-fireball. Arnold commented: "What kept bothering me as I
watched them flip and flash in the sun right along their path was
the fact that I couldn't make out any tail on them..."

Arnold estimated that the total duration of the sighting "was
around 2 1/2 to 3 minutes" but this must be considered only a
"ball-park guestimate." Witnesses are notoriously unreliable in
estimating the time-duration of unexpected events. For example, on
the night of March 3, 1968, the flaming debris from a Soviet space
rocket reentry over the eastern part of the U.S. generated many
UFO reports. Witness estimates of the duration of their
observation ranged from less than 15 seconds to more than five
minutes. Arnold claimed that "I remember distinctly that my sweep
second hand on my instrument panel read one minute to 3 p.m. as
the first object of the formation passed the southern edge of
Mount Rainier" and that he remembered to look at his cockpit clock
when the last object passed Mount Adams. SUN questions whether
Arnold -- who was focusing his attention on the unusual objects
while also occupied flying his aircraft -- would have taken his
eyes off the objects to carefully observe his cockpit clock.

The visibility of a single meteor-fireball may be as brief as a
few seconds, but a single large daylight fireball which passed
over Rocky Mountain tourist areas on August 10, 1972, was visible
for about a minute. (One tourist managed to take 26 seconds of
"home movie" before the fireball disappeared behind a nearby
mountain.) However, a stream of several fireballs would be visible
for a longer time. For example, a stream of three fireballs was
seen by three observers on board the U.S.S. Supply near San
Francisco on Feb. 28, 1904, at approximately 6:10 a.m. As reported
in the March 1904 Monthly Weather Review, "The meteors were in
sight over two minutes and were carefully observed by three
people, whose accounts agree as to details."

A very unusual meteor shower with many fireballs occurred on the
night of Feb. 9, 1913, as reported in the May/June 1913 issue of
the Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada. The
article by C.A. Chant included a number of sketches of the stream
of fireballs drawn by observers.

Observer estimates of the number of objects "ranged from 15 to
thousands, " according to Chant. Based on estimates from many
observers, Chant concluded that the parade of tadpole-shaped
fireballs lasted for "perhaps 3.3 minutes."

If a similar event were to occur today it might cause some
observers who had seen the Independence Day movie to panic,
fearing it was a UFO/ET invasion.

Copyright 1997, Skeptics' UFO Newsletter






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   Apr > Apr 7

                     Re: MIG-29 Footage (KGB-UFO-Files)

From: Luis Eduardo Pacheco <ufozone@bigfoot.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:20:46 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:32:24 -0400
Subject: Re: MIG-29 Footage (KGB-UFO-Files)


At 08:50 AM 7/04/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: MIG-29 Footage (KGB-UFO-Files)
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 05:56:32 +0100

>Hi All,

>I know I am a little late with this one (Sorry I just got my
>copy of the KGB UFO Files) and here is the question.


I'm suggest you visit the Parascope site at
http://www.parascope.com and take a look at an article about the
show by Antonio Hunneus. I have not the exact URL but if you
make a search for "KGB UFO" in the site, you will easily find
it.

It's an interesting one about the "reality" <g> background of
facts in that "thing".

Futhermore, an italian researcher had identified the true nature
of the "ufo-killing-a-mig" footage part of the show: an air to
air missile shooting down the aircraft, footage wich he had see
in chapter devoted to the "Russian Air Force" of a home video
"aeronautic encyclopedia".

Greetings from the south!
Un abrazo!

***************************************************************
*  Luis Eduardo Pacheco * Caseros * Buenos Aires * Argentina  *
***************************************************************
* INFORME ALFA: Una vision de la Ovnilogia y las Paraciencias *
*     desde la logica, el sentido comun y la mente abierta    *
*                                                             *
*                 YA ESTA DISPONIBLE EL NUMERO 1              *
*                 ==============================              *
* http://visitweb.com/ALFA  * Email: informe_alfa@bigfoot.com *
***************************************************************





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   Apr > Apr 7

                 Social Resistance To Unconventional Wisdom

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 13:33:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:35:03 -0400
Subject: Social Resistance To Unconventional Wisdom


This was posted on a new energy listserver but is equally
applicable here.

        <><><><><><><><><><><><>

<From a paper produced by Ingo Swann for the Intelligence
Community (aka the CIA) on Social Resistance to Psi.>

Three of the major observations of this report establishes the
following:

(1) Since doubt is considered a legitimate function within
intellectual processes, the role of those who doubt is given
more legitimacy than those who do not doubt. Were this not so
then the meaning of doubt would become vague.

(2) When doubt is superimposed on direct human experiencing,
then the doubt assumes a priority because of its perceived
legitimacy. The superimposition then results in a subtle shift
of focus away from examining the direct human experiencing and
reinstalls the focus within the contexts of the various
intellectualisms that have become involved.

(3) The history of intellectualisms demonstrates (a) that they
have relatively short terms of social fashionability, and (b)
that they tend to be elitist in nature because the larger
populations either do not, or cannot, share in them.

Combining these three observations results in a fourth: that
doubt is relative to social enclaves and is thus only transitory
against larger issues that remain permanent within the direct
experiential thresholds of our species.

Reducing these four observations to a possibly crude level,
skeptics and debunkers come and go --- but the experiencing
thresholds of the species remain the same. The experiencing
thresholds are therefore perpetual. Skepticism that advocates
doubt regarding something perpetual is relevant only to the
transitory intellectual boundaries within which it has arisen.

As an apt illustration of the above, Albert Einstein introduced
his special theory of relativity in 1905 while he was still a
student and working in the patent office in Switzerland. The
skeptical responses regarding the theory, and him as a scientist
and man, were not only noisy but exceedingly --voluminous.--

By 1925, historians appraised that the Einstein "debate" had
accumulated the largest printed paper volume ever.

When the special theory was proven correct between 1927 and
1929, it was shown that relativity was perpetual --- naturally
existing and true. The skeptical and debunking responses were
shown as transitory, however ardent and voluminous they had
been. None of the names of Einstein's skeptics are remembered.
And this is the ignominious fate of most skeptics --- because
the times and tides of discovery march on and forget they
existed.

The verb "debunk" means "to expose the sham of falseness of
something." Debunking is therefore a valuable function and
always has been --- in that certain specimens of our species
like to engineer sham and falseness in order to benefit from
them.

Implicit in the term, however, is the distinction between (1)
exposing --after the fact of examination, and (2) accusing
--before the fact. In this double sense, the term can take on
Machiavellian efficiency.

"Machiavellianism" refers to Machiavelli's political theory that
politics is amoral and that any means however unscrupulous can
justifiably be used in achieving political power or purposes.

The introduction of Machiavellianism into skepticism and
debunking runs counter to their original ethical function and
sets up lachrymose contexts so labyrinthine that very few can
negotiate them. Indeed, Machiavellianism can only be effective
provided the labyrinthine contexts cannot be unravelled.

As but one example of Machiavellian debunking, though, I refer
the truly interested to the paper entitled "Science Versus
Showmanship: A History of the Randi Hoax" by Michael A.
Thalbourne just published in The Journal of the American Society
for Psychical Research (Oct. 1995, Vol.89, No. 4).

--Resistance-- to such research --before-- the facts of the
superpowers can be ascertained is therefore puzzling.

The only possible explanation must involve not discoverable
facts which could speak for themselves but --motives and
agendas.--

Most of us recognize that this is the usual case regarding most
human confusions --- assuming that mere stupidity or lack of
knowledge are not involved as the first instance. But the
introduction of motives and agendas further complicates this
particular situation already lamentably labyrinthine in its
overall character.

The etymological history of the term "skepticism" shows that it
has undergone several definition formats and social applications
since it was first coined in ancient Greece --- down until today
when it is almost exclusively taken as referring to someone
opposed to the "paranormal" and anything resembling them.

During the Renaissance period, when the schism between science
and religion started up, skepticism was largely taken as
referring to "doubt concerning basic religious principles" such
as immortality, providence, revelation, the existence of the
soul, etc. This is to say that --skepticism-- was then used
almost as a synonym for anti-religion on behalf of sequestering
the evolving sciences from it.

The ethical, and even logical goal of the true skeptic is to
resolve doubt by identifying facts, not to reinforce doubt in
the absence of discovered facts --- and certainly not to
underwrite Machiavellian debunking tactics to prevent the needed
research.

True skepticism does not --begin-- by being anti- anything. The
processes of open consideration and examination (i.e., research)
will ultimately establish whether something exists or not.

There is hardly no other way via which doubt, belief, or
confusions between them can be resolved on behalf of acquiring
increases in knowledge. And this is especially true as regards
the true extent of human sentiency --- for sentient beings have
an inalienable bio-mind right to know of the true extent of
their sentiency.

If such a skeptic is utilizing the conventional definitions of
the modern mainstream sciences and philosophies --which have
neither considered nor researched the unconventional, then such
a skeptic is utilizing nothing at all except hearsay or
prejudice based on it. Clearly those who --have-- attempted to
research the unconventional know more about them than those who
never have made the attempt --- just as conventional modern
scientists and philosophers have not.

Here is the basis for a pogrom. A "pogrom" is defined as "an
organized massacre of helpless people." Such a pogrom regarding
"sensitives" took place during the Inquisitions of the Middle
Ages. Some historians estimate the high body count at 9 million
over a 300-year period. Ridicule and defamation during modern
times of sensitives and researchers of the unconventional is a
kind of pogrom, especially when supported in the mainstream
media.

It is interesting indeed why in our scientific times there
should be such a pogrom that victimizes our species
unconventional views with its marvelous spectrum of sentiency.
It may be that someone somewhere doesn't want that marvelous
spectrum to be identified and DEVELOPED.

<end of message>





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   Apr > Apr 7

                Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 11:28:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:40:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:28:35 -0400
>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

>>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700
>>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

><snip>

>>The page ostensibly shows some super-secret reconnaisance
>>satellite called "Silver Veil." Particularly notice the first
>>illustration titled "SV OV-Prime." Scroll to the bottom of the
>>page where an asterisk denotes something Stephens calls a
>>"Femptophoton Analysis Module." To quote from Stephens's site,
>>"Faster than the speed of light (+Sol) detector and analysis
>>module for intruder assessment requiring extraordinary
>>reconnaissnace interpretation," whatever the hell that's
>>supposed to mean.

>>First off, nothing travels faster than light. Physics 101,
>>moron.

><snip>

>Let me first say that I am not a fan of RAMS.  Indeed, I am sure
>that the moon rotates on its axis and that F117's are not used
>as interceptors, to address two of his statements which were
>obviously erroneous.  However, we cannot rely on Physics 101
>when judging today's technology.  Take a look at:

>http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/tors/tors3.html

>Quoting from paragraph 14:

<snip>

>I am a communications engineer with over 20 years experience in
>radio communications and these Russian scientists have almost
>convinced me that FTL communications is possible using the
>torsion field.  AND I am rapidly becoming convinced that FTL
>travel is doable through gravity manipulation.

>One interesting note:  if you can manipulate gravity, you can
>manipulate time.  Podkletnov's gravity modification experiments
>utilized a rotating superconducting disk.  I used to laugh when
>I read and watched HG Wells' _The Time Machine_ when this
>scientist would travel through time by sitting in front of a
>rotating disk.  I don't know if Wells was a time traveler or an
>alien; but, he was one heck of a visionary.


Terry,

Thank you for that information.

Interestingly, I am working closely with Dr. Jack Sarfatti who
is himself now working with G.I Shipov on a post quantum
extension to the more generalized Shipov torsion field Theory.

It still remains to be seen whether or not this theory will lead
to practical applications.

Dr. Sarfatti intends bringing Shipov over here relatively soon
to work on just such practical applications.  I'll keep the list
apprised of developments as they occur.


--
*****************************************************************
"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government?
When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory.
The federal government is our servant, not our master!"

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep
and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
against tyranny in government."

--- Thomas Jefferson
*****************************************************************





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   Apr > Apr 7

                         Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:46:06 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:49:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:24:11 EDT
>Subject: Krauss' Faulty Physics [was: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate]
>To: updates@globalserve.net


>So how can large magnetic fields protect against high
>accelerations?  It doesn't require any new principles of physics
>or speculation about 24th Star Trek physics or unknown
>antigravity fields.

>The principle that could make it possible is diamagnetism. ...

>About two years ago, a rather dramatic demonstration of
>diamagnetic effects appeared on the Net and media in the form of
>the so-called floating frog experiment.  A very strong 12 Tesla
>laboratory SC magnet was used to levitate small creatures such
>as frogs, fish, etc.  Levitation depended on the principle of
>diamagnetism, in particular the diamagnetic properties of water
>in the animals. ...

>Why was this experiment significant?  Because it demonstrated
>that with sufficiently strong magnetic fields, one could indeed
>cancel the effects of gravity, not through any sort of
>antigravity shielding, but by generating an opposing diamagnetic
>force on molecules throughout the body of the animal.  The
>animal is then practically in a zero gravity state.

David,

I'm afraid we still need to invoke 24th-century, or make that
54th-century, Star Trek physics. The strong magnetic field was
merely opposing gravity, it wasn't opposing inertia.

Jim Deardorff
Corvallis, Oregon
E-mail: deardorj@proaxis.com
Home page: http://www.proaxis.com/~deardorj/index.htm





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                Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:00:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:43:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 11:28:08 -0700
>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

<snip>

>Terry,

>Thank you for that information.

>Interestingly, I am working closely with Dr. Jack Sarfatti who
>is himself now working with G.I Shipov on a post quantum
>extension to the more generalized Shipov torsion field Theory.
>
>It still remains to be seen whether or not this theory will lead
>to practical applications.
>
>Dr. Sarfatti intends bringing Shipov over here relatively soon
>to work on just such practical applications. I'll keep the list
>apprised of developments as they occur.

>--

You're kidding!?! Gennady I. Shipov is coming here? Please,
could you ask him how one could obtain an English translation of
his book _A Theory of Physical Vacuum_?

For those on the list, Shipov's book is the definitive work on
torsion fields which very likely could lead to explanations on
UFO propulsion and communication.

It would be very interesting to hear Shipov's opinions on
Podkletnov's work.

Terry






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   Apr > Apr 7

                       Re: Security Cleared Witnesses

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:54:42 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:46:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Security Cleared Witnesses


>Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 22:46:30 +0000
>From: YourName - Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Security Cleared Witnesses [was: UFO*BC Updates]

>>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:00:46 -0400
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO*BC Updates

>>>Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:43:53 -0400
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>>Subject: Re: UFO*BC Updates

>><snip>

>>>None of the Roswell witnesses have been able to provide any
>>>tangible proof that their allegations are accurate, so there
>>>hasn't been anything to prosecute them for, so I wouldn't
>>>necessarily use that as a factor to prove that there is no
>>>danger to potential witnesses who come forward to disclose what
>>>may be secrets involving National security.

>><snip>

>>The above statement's phrasing is a good example of what happens
>>if you fail to re-read an entire paragraph after making
>>modifications to sections within it.  I think I got the point
>>across, but it also show why I'm not a writer.

>>I apologize for the bad grammer.

>Steve, apologies accepted.<g>

>Just think, if a large number of Greer's witnesses went public
>at the same time it would be a field day for the press. If the
>government tried to prosecute them it would create a larger
>public issue and perhaps the press would support them and their
>data.

>Attempts at prosecution may not be a wise move from the feds.
>That would bring a lot of favorable attention to the UFO issue
>and perhaps strong demands that the government come clean for
>once.

>I will forward my posts to Dr. Greer, suggesting that he try to
>coordinate a press conference where a mass of witnesses who held
>security clearances testify and provide supporting data.

>Look what a mess it has been amongst us over the MJ12 documents.
>Sarah McClendon is on our side and she can rally the top
>reporters. Let's go for it and force the government's hand.

I can only wonder how much real effort has been made to verify
the testimony and background of these witnesses. I understand
that in the past Dr. Greer was touting such phonies as Guy
Kirkwood, Bob Lazar, Michael Wolf. With friends like these, one
doesn't need enemies.

One of the reasons I didn't vote for the proposed effort is that
I feel it is far too broad and that there are legitimate
national security issues such as new techniques for monitoring
the skies and perhaps new technology gleaned from saucer
wreckage. I do think it would be better to focus on, for
example, July ,1947, since the government has officially
'explained' away Roswell and the Plains of San Augustin events.

Can't possibly prosecute for those.

Stan Friedman





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   Apr > Apr 7

                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 14:16:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:50:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:46:58 -0500

>Forwarded from the SETI maillist FYI

>---

>Were Kenneth Arnold's UFOs Actually Meteor-Fireballs?

>>From Skeptics' UFO Newsletter #46: July 1997

>http://site034145.primehost.com/articles/0697/arnold.htm

>by Philip J. Klass,

>Recent research by San Francisco Examiner science writer Keay
>Davidson -- sparked by a conversation with SUN's editor --
>suggests that the stream of 'Unidentified Flying Objects' reported
>50 years ago by private pilot Kenneth Arnold -- which triggered
>the UFO era -- may have been glowing meteor-fireball fragments.
>Davidson learned from a recent book on meteors (Rocks from Space)
>authored by O. Richard Norton, that the number of meteorite falls
>reaches a Peak around 3 p.m. Arnold's sighting occurred around 3
>p.m. In the northern hemisphere, the greatest number of meteorite
>entries reported over 160 years (1900 to 1960) occur during the
>mouth of June. Arnold's historic sighting occurred on the 24th of
>June, 1947.

<snip>

Keay Davidson is a rabid UFO debunker. I live in San Francisco, and
have followed Davidson's anti-UFO ravings for some years now.

He is clearly being groomed to be the heir apparent to the
declining Phil Klass.

Davidson will simply not entertain even the remotest possiblity
that even a small percentage of UFOs could be technological and
non-terrestrial in origin.

Davidson is not an objective science journalist, particularly
when it comes to the subject of UFOs. He obviously has a
definate agenda when it comes to dismissing any and all UFO
reports.

I would be highly suspect of _anything_ that this man writes on
the topic of UFOs and the existence of extraterrestrials.
Period.

--
*****************************************************************
"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government?
When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory.
The federal government is our servant, not our master!"

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep
and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
against tyranny in government."

--- Thomas Jefferson
*****************************************************************





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 7

                     Re: RAMS - Bell Admits 'Porno Rap'?

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 16:45:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 18:17:40 -0400
Subject: Re: RAMS - Bell Admits 'Porno Rap'?


"Random Access Memory" Stephens reports from the tabloids:

>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:46:16 -0600
>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: RAMS - Bell Admits 'Porno Rap'?

>Thought I'd let you all know:

What's this new Jerry Springer incarnation? You don't do it very
well, and, additionally, you appear to enjoy it too much. You
should be ashamed of yourself -- far and away exceeding any
shame that Bell might feel.

>Bell called another web radio host and revealed that the
>allegations are true about his porno background. Also, he was
>involved in the same in San Deigo CA, which he also admitted.

Your point?

>The transcript will be posted on the Behold website when we get
>enough bandwidth to get the site back up. The hits for the first
>9 hours were near a million hits. We need a little more than
>56Mb for 60 days to cover that sort of traffic in one day. We
>had projected 60,000 hits for 30 days. We erred.

"Jer-ry -- Jer-ry -- Jer-ry"! What are _your_ secrets?

>Should you not believe me, write Bell himself and ask him:

Uh -- who cares?

<snipped the remaining of RAMS wallow between the checkout lanes
 of your local supermarket>

--
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more.
Consider Matter, Mind & Movement.
See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration.
Take a ride in the Teleporter.

Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
<Updated 2 April>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 7

                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:55:58 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 18:21:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:46:58 -0500

>Forwarded from the SETI maillist FYI

>---

>Were Kenneth Arnold's UFOs Actually Meteor-Fireballs?

>>From Skeptics' UFO Newsletter #46: July 1997

>http://site034145.primehost.com/articles/0697/arnold.htm

>by Philip J. Klass,

>Recent research by San Francisco Examiner science writer Keay
>Davidson -- sparked by a conversation with SUN's editor --
>suggests that the stream of 'Unidentified Flying Objects' reported
>50 years ago by private pilot Kenneth Arnold -- which triggered
>the UFO era -- may have been glowing meteor-fireball fragments.
>Davidson learned from a recent book on meteors (Rocks from Space)
>authored by O. Richard Norton, that the number of meteorite falls
>reaches a Peak around 3 p.m. Arnold's sighting occurred around 3
>p.m. In the northern hemisphere, the greatest number of meteorite
>entries reported over 160 years (1900 to 1960) occur during the
>mouth of June. Arnold's historic sighting occurred on the 24th of
>June, 1947.

The rest of this nonesense was snipped.

Anyway thanks Brain for a great laugh. It's amazing how someone
can run off 600 or 700 words on pure nonsense without seeing
themselves how foolish it is. Meteors flying horizontally for
long periods of time, weaving in and out of mountains.

Where do some of these rocket scientists come from? Come on
Phil. Jesus did you ever read the reports? Do you know even a
tiny amount about the behaviour of meteors? And this was on the
SETI List?!!






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 7

                   Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!

From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:13:43 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 22:48:51 -0400
Subject: Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!


>From: Mike Wootten <mwootten@dial.pipex.com>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:53:10 +0100

<snipped>

>In a dramatic turn of events two of BUFORA's most active, key
>figures have resigned, leaving BUFORA once again up the far
>reaches of an effluent channel with no visible means of
>propulsion.

>Gloria Dixon, BUFORA's Director of Investigations for several
>years, and Dr. David Clarke, their Press Officer, have both
>resigned on this Easter weekend.

>The reasons for these resignations are many but stem
>fundamentally from BUFORA Council s decision to allow Max Burns
>to spread disinformation, libel and lies about the so-called
>Sheffield Case.

I am sorry to hear that Gloria Dixon has chosen to resign as the
"Director of Investigations" for BUFORA.

About eight weeks ago I had a long conversation with Gloria by
telephone regarding various issues, including my investigation
into the Sheffield Incident.

During the conversation she informed me that she had received a
report from a woman who wrote that on the 24th March 1997 at
approx. 22.00hrs GMT she heard a loud explosion and the sky
lit up with a red flash.

Me ponders how many sonic events light up the sky with a red
flash? Please do not jump in with it was a Tornado igniting its
after burner as it would not light up the whole of the sky.
_Fact_

I asked Gloria if she could contact the women to ask if it would
be at all possible for me to contact the originator of the
letter so that I may question her about the report that she
filed.

I also asked Gloria if she could forward the report to me
omitting the details of the identity of the woman until she had
cleared it for me to speak with her.

She has done neither.

I have also E-mailed Gloria making the request again in writing.
Did she reply to this request.

She did not.

This is really strange behaviour from the Director of
Investigations, as I had made a request for data which she
informed myself about orally.

She has not supplied it or even replied to my mail. Why she even
bothered to tell me about this I don't know. But at least I was
willing to follow up on the report with an investigation

But instead I am being denied this data...why?

>BUFORA Council wisely prevented Max Burns from speaking last
>year. This followed Burns allegations that:

>* A pilot had been killed after being shot down by a UFO
>* That a serving member of the RAF had picked the surviving
>navigator up late at night in the Peak District..

I never said that he had Picked up the surviving navigator

>His second claim was vigorously denied by the alleged witness who
>was furious that Max had distorted his words. As a result of this the
>witness employment has been put at risk.

Well, that would be fine Mr Wooten, except that I have distorted
nothing as you seem to forget that I have the interview with the
man recorded on audio cassette.. there fore it would be
impossible for me to distort what can be corroborated and backed
up by audio...

Never mind that the audio recording of my conversation
completely contradicts the interview which Dr Clark scribbled in
his shorthand note book then transcribed how he saw it...and
either implicates Dr Clark as either being involved in this
cover up or that he has been deceived. _Fact_

I have the audio to back up these claims so put that in your
pipe and smoke it

>This situation has not changed. Burns has _no_ new evidence. Yet
>due to internal manipulation and politicking within BUFORA - to
>which only a select band of Council members were privy, Burns
>lecture for June 1999 has been forced through on a free speech
>ticket.

Oh I am afraid the situation has changed and I _do_ have
"new evidence". You will just have to wait till June the 5th
Ohhhh, I forgot, you will not be attending...

So basically what you are saying, Mr Wootten, is that if you lot
cannot have your own way, BUFORA are crap....

>BUFORA bigwig John Spencer went so far as to say that
>preventing Burns from speaking was the first step on the road to
>facism. This clearly shows the ethical corruption which lies at
>the core of BUFORA management.

>Burns has _had_ free speech both on the Internet and in magazine
>articles. His sensational and libellous rubbish has merely
>cheapened the subject. BUFORA Council's support for this man is
>puzzling, not least in the light of their enthusiasm to promote
>other hoaxes and scams such as the Ray Santilli Alien Autopsy
>film.

Libellous rubbish, the only people who have cheapened the
subject are yourselves with this constant bombardment to have me
removed from the lecture platform..

>Attempts to reason with key members of Council via internet
>forums have been met with that most redundant of BUFORA tools
>silence.

You mean the constant harassment of council members don't you?

>Their Chairman Steve Gamble refuses to discuss the matter with
>anyone other than the small coterie of friends who actually run
>BUFORA.

The decision has been made. Its not open for your negative and
dubious debating skills. Attend or don't attend that's up to
you.

>John Spencer - architect of this inner circle made a feeble
>attempt to justify BUFORA's actions which was received with
>outright hilarity from other BUFORA members and ufological
>luminaries such as John Rimmer and Peter Brookesmith.

I recieved the following post only this morning. I feel just
about sums up the situation:

---

You could pick this incendiary post apart piece by piece, and
the obvious would be even more obvious - the very same people
who have been picking Max apart for months are the very same
ones who have withdrawn support from BUFORA and/or resigned. Is
this a bit of reverse psychology on their part? Look like the
injured party and gain sympathy?? Uh-uh! Not any more. The
readership of UFO Updates is getting very savy to these
mind-trips and I do believe that they will see through the
obvious (continual) lies and distortions they try to perpetrate
by re-stating (and RE-STATING ad nauseum) the very same
so-called "facts" that have been shot down time and again.

It's the same old list again, Matthew's, Robert's, Clark.
Same-old, same-old, and if others follow as is intimated, it is
_their_ loss, not BUFORA's.

Clarke lost out in an attempt to smear Max's name over some
personal Council Tax problems; Matthews made a fool of himself
as a guest in the UK #ufo channel, the log of which is
available; Andy Roberts as the third member of this tag-along
group has also tried his hand at besmearching Max's good name.

Now for the coup'de'grace - quit BUFORA as a team and make their
final "statement". Well, this is just my opinion, but it ain't
gonna work, boys. Max is going to speak in June, and that's
that. Like it, or lump it, as we say in the U.S., and I guess
the good old boys are lumping it, royally, in a vain attempt to
make one last statement that is going to fall flat on its face.

Ufology - what would we ever do without it! Needed to vent,
thanks for listening.

And Max, go get'em!!! You've got the audience for sure now.
They've personally hand-delivered it by these actions.

---

>BUFORA have wittered long and hard over the years for witness
>confidentiality and all that nonsense. Very admirable. Yet here
>they are giving a platform to Max Burns who has implicated a
>serving RAF officer in his fantasies, causing him to almost lose
>his job?

First time someone in the RAF nearly lost their job over a
fantasy. All seems rather strange.

As to how the RAF even knew about this?

I can see it now..

Commanding Officer:

"Dagenahrt why are you involved in this fantasy? We cannot have
our men involved in fantasies. You will remove yourself from
this fantasy immediately or lose your JOB!"

Dagenhart responds with:

"But sir, what about our fantasy with you me and a sheep?"

"Oh, that's Ok that's our fantasy..."

"But sir, he has the conversation on tape..."

"Oh don't worry about it, the boys are on it..."


So to answer some points

Dagenhart

1 This guy is not an officer.

2. How could he lose his job over something that you claim has
not occurred?

3..How did the RAF even know about this in the first place, to
be able to threaten him with losing his job over something that
they claim never occurred?

4.. Why would they know about this or even be concerned about
this if none of it were true?

5.. I have the audio and you people are desperate to have the
use of this tape removed from my case as you cannot discredit
this evidence, as it completely contradicts the interview that
Dr Clark transcribed from his short hand notes one week after I
had spoken with Dagenhart..

>Now, with the loss of Gloria Dixon and Dr David Clarke the
>Association remains little more than a sideshow in the
>ufological circus.

Well I have to agree with you for once. It's a sad loss to
Bufora.

However, in the case of Dr Clark..

In the last twelve months he has not posted one item for BUFORA
to UpDates. He has been ineffectual as press officer and has
done nothing what so ever to assist in the work of BUFORA....

Indeed, it could be argued that he has done no more than provide
up front, privy information for the group who are hellbent on
taking control of the UK ufological scene, in an attempt to
discredit BUFORA and therefore take the members to the newly
reformed IUN - whose key members are Andy Roberts, Tim Matthews
and Dave Clark. Among others.

It could also be argued that I am being used also in your total
control of ufology political agenda as a weapon to, in a three
pronged mission, discredit myself, my case and BUFORA. Bonus
for you IUN. If you can pull it off.

This is the same Andy Roberts who denied that David Clark had
supplied my details to Rotherham council (re council tax) which
Dr Clark admitted to later on this list. And I am a "liar"?
Puhlleeeese..

The same Andy Robert's who wished so desperately to become the
Buffer conference organiser recently?

Puhlleeeese

>At least two of the people booked for BUFORA lectures in the
>99/00 season have also withdrawn their support for BUFORA
>following these resignations.

>Tim Matthew's, author of UFO Revelation and the country's leading
>expert on military black-projects

According to himself

>has withdrawn from the lecture
>programme in support of Gloria and Dave. Andy Roberts has also
>cancelled his lecture in disgust at the way BUFORA Council has
>allowed itself to be manipulated by hucksters- again.

You mean because the hucksters cannot get their way, I was asked
to speak.. I never canvassed anyone.

I am also speaking for Irene Bott's group at her request..

>Rather than searching for any truths behind UFO reports BUFORA
>Council would be better served if they started a serious hunt
>for the plot they lost years ago...

Perhaps it would be best if BUFORA started a serious hunt for
the real reason why the IUN wish to discredit the Organisation?

>Organisations such as BUFORA are unnecessary. In its forty years
>BUFORA has accomplished very little. The best ufology - as
>Jacques Vallee has said - is done by motivated individuals and
>small groups.

Then why are you plugging the newly reformed IUN?

>No titles, no power, no egos.

All power, no research, no differences of opinions more like

>If you are a BUFORA member reading this we suggest you attend
>and question them closely about matters raised here and in
>previous issues of BUFORA Watch. You will, of course, be fobbed
>off with platitudes and half-baked trivialties. Don t be fooled!

I suggest the BUFORA membership at least question the acts and
motivations of these individuals, who because they cannot
have the run of the house, and their own way, will do and say
anything to cause trouble.

Come and hear my talk with new evidence which the killing team
do not know about... I am not asking that you believe me.. I am
asking that you at least listen to what I have to say. then make
your own minds up instead of this biased influence being forced
upon the uk ufological groups by the likes of the IUN..

>A new forum for serious. sceptical ufology will shortly be
>announced via this list.

I didn't doubt that for a minute..


Max Burns






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 7

                Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:24:24 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 20:16:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:28:35 -0400
>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

>>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700
>>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

>Let me first say that I am not a fan of RAMS. Indeed, I am sure
>that the moon rotates on its axis

The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis. The dark side is always
dark and the light side is always light. This is one of many
anomalies about the moon.



--

Skye Turell
PLEASE NOTICE CHANGE OF
EMAIL ADDRESS TO
mindtrekker@mindspring.com





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   Apr > Apr 7

                         Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:30:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 22:54:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics


>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:46:06 -0700 (PDT)
>Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:49:10 -0400
>Subject: Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics

>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:24:11 EDT
>>Subject: Krauss' Faulty Physics [was: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate]
>>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>So how can large magnetic fields protect against high
>>accelerations? It doesn't require any new principles of physics
>>or speculation about 24th Star Trek physics or unknown
>>antigravity fields.

>>The principle that could make it possible is diamagnetism. ...

>>About two years ago, a rather dramatic demonstration of
>>diamagnetic effects appeared on the Net and media in the form of
>>the so-called floating frog experiment. A very strong 12 Tesla
  {Correction: should have been 16 Tesla}
>>laboratory SC magnet was used to levitate small creatures such
>>as frogs, fish, etc. Levitation depended on the principle of
>>diamagnetism, in particular the diamagnetic properties of water
>>in the animals. ...

>>Why was this experiment significant? Because it demonstrated
>>that with sufficiently strong magnetic fields, one could indeed
>>cancel the effects of gravity, not through any sort of
>>antigravity shielding, but by generating an opposing diamagnetic
>>force on molecules throughout the body of the animal. The
>>animal is then practically in a zero gravity state.

>David,

>I'm afraid we still need to invoke 24th-century, or make that
>54th-century, Star Trek physics. The strong magnetic field was
>merely opposing gravity, it wasn't opposing inertia.

Jim,

Inertial and gravitational mass are the same thing. In the
floating frog experiment, the earth is pulling on the frog with
a force that would cause 1g of downward acceleration. The magnet
is pushing the frog away with a force that would also cause 1g
of acceleration, only in the opposite direction. The net
acceleration is zero. The frog is weightless.

To avoid confusion, move the whole situation far out into space
and far away from any gravitationally attracting body. Now we
don't have to think of gravity, only inertial forces. If a
spacecraft moves at constant velocity, the frog floats
weightless in the spacecraft. If one now accelerates the
spacecraft, the frog will "fall" to the rear of the craft and be
pressed against the wall by the inertial forces. The frog now
has weight. As Einstein pointed out, in a local reference frame,
there is no way to distinguish between the force of gravity and
inertial forces produced by acceleration (his principle of
equivalence).

Now place the inertia compensating magnet between the rear wall
and the frog with a magnetic field that pushes the frog forward
using the diamagnetic force with exactly the same acceleration
as the spacecraft.  Since every atom in the frog is
simultaneously and equally accelerated (ideally), the frog again
remains weightless and feels no inertial force.

The key to inertia cancellation is the simultaneous equal
acceleration of every atom in the frog or astronaut's body. If
they are not equally and simultaneously accelerated, then there
is some squashing of the body. That's the situation an astronaut
is in if you simply strap him to his seat. He eventually gets
accelerated along with the rest of the spaceship, but only after
a delay. Furthermore, because of the finite delay, his backbone
is always a little ahead of his guts during acceleration, and he
gets flattened a little bit. It feels like an elephant is
sitting on his chest.

However, if the accelerating force is applied via a field, as is
the case with a magnet, all the atoms in the passengers body
move forward simultaneously at the same rate (ideally) and there
is no pressing of one atom against the other.  It's the exact
same situation as a group of objects in free fall in a
gravitational field. All fall at the same rate, so there is no
smashing of one object into another. The atoms of the astronauts
body all have equal acceleration, the astronaut feels no
inertial forces or pressure on his body, and everything remains
weightless.

In practice, a magnet will not accelerate every atom exactly the
same. Unlike a Star-Trekkian antigravity field, a magnet makes
an imperfect inertial dampener. Atoms further from the magnet
feel a smaller diamagnetic force. Different molecules composed
of different atoms will also generally not have equal
accelerations. (Which is not the case in a more ideal gravity
field where all mass is equally accelerated) Some such as oxygen
molecules and iron atoms would be attracted, not repelled.

Nonetheless, the vast majority of molecules in biological
materials are diamagnetic, the most important of these being
water, which makes up 70% of our body mass. Strong magnets would
provide protection against high acceleration forces. It wouldn't
be perfect, but perhaps a 40g acceleration would feel only like
8 g's (to pull numbers out of a hat), not confortable, but
certainly endurable for a few seconds during erratic maneuvers.

In addition, biological alien pilots could conceivably be
engineered to function at higher accelerations than human pilots
-- have bigger hearts, higher blood pressure, higher oxygen
carrying capacity to the blood, better return circulation
systems to prevent pooling of blood in the extremities, stronger
walled blood vessels, etc., etc., all designed to prevent
blackout. Lower body mass and more flexible, cartilagenous-type
bones, specially constructed pressure and support suits,
well-designed restraints, etc. might help prevent physical
injury. Through careful design, they might also be constructed
out of well-matched diamagnetic materials, to further reduce g
forces. So maybe with diamagnetic inertial dampening, 100 g's
would be reduced to 15-20 g's, which they could handle as well
as a human could take 8 g's.

Or one could dispense with biological pilots altogether and go
to computer, robot, or remote control, possibilities that Krauss
never considers in his straw man debunking. As Paul Hill pointed
out, we already have small guided missiles designed to pull
hundreds and even thousands of g's. Presumably advanced aliens
could design craft with comparable or better capabilities than
20th century humans. Maybe the hi-g UFOs observed are simply
unmanned (unaliened?).

David Rudiak





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   Apr > Apr 7

                        Re: Bell Admits 'Porno Rap'?

From: Jeff Rense <eotl@west.net>
Date: Wed,  7 Apr 1999 18:51:52 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 23:26:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Bell Admits 'Porno Rap'?


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:46:16 -0600
>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: RAMS - Bell Admits 'Porno Rap'?

>Thought I'd let you all know:

>Bell called another web radio host and revealed that the
>allegations are true about his porno background. Also, he was
>involved in the same in San Deigo CA, which he also admitted.

<snip>

To avoid any confusion in this matter, let me make it clear that
I have never characterized any other radio host as having a
'porno background.' This particular expression did not come from
me or my program. I am more than capable of speaking for
myself. I have no control over what any other radio host may
have said regarding this issue.

Jeff Rense





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   Apr > Apr 8

               Re: Social Resistance To Unconventional Wisdom

From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:18:03 PDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 14:59:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Social Resistance To Unconventional Wisdom


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 13:33:32 -0400
>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Social Resistance To Unconventional Wisdom


>This was posted on a new energy listserver but is equally
>applicable here.

>       <><><><><><><><><><><><>

<snip>

>The verb "debunk" means "to expose the sham of falseness of
>something." Debunking is therefore a valuable function and
>always has been --- in that certain specimens of our species
>like to engineer sham and falseness in order to benefit from
>them.

Hi All,

In today's parlance, and in this context, isn't "...the sham of
falseness..." a double negative?


Regards,
Leanne   ];-)







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   Apr > Apr 8

                'The Times of India' On Ancient Aerial Craft

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 02:45:10 +0200 (MET DST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:12:00 -0400
Subject: 'The Times of India' On Ancient Aerial Craft


Source: "alt.alien.research'.

A free Vedic astrological chart is available if you follow the
link to Jai Maharaj's homepage.

Stig

***

From: address.below.or@web.site (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.research
Subject: FLIGHT PATH
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 19:38:36 GMT


FLIGHT PATH

By Mukul Sharma
The Times of India
Thursday, April 8, 1999

According to some interpretations of surviving texts, India's
future it seems happened way back in its past.

Take the case of the Yantra Sarvasva, said to have been written
by the sage Maharshi Bhardwaj.

This consists of as many as 40 sections of which one, the
Vaimanika Prakarana dealing with aeronautics, has eight
chapters, a hundred topics and 500 sootr.

In it Bhardwaj describes vimaan, or aerial craft, as being of
three classes: (1) those that travel from place to place; (2)
those that travel from one country to another; and (3) those
that travel between planets.

Of special concern among these were the military planes whose
functions were delineated in some very considerable detail and
which read today like something clean out of science fiction.
For instance they had to be:

 o  impregnable, unbreakable, non-combustible and indestructible

 o  capable of coming to a dead stop in the twinkling of an eye

 o  invisible to enemies

 o  capable of listening to the conversations and sounds in
    hostile planes

 o  technically proficient to see and record things, persons,
    incidents and situations going on inside enemy planes

 o  know at every stage the direction of movement of other
    aircraft in the vicinity

 o  capable of rendering the enemy crew into a state of
    suspended animation, intellectual torpor or complete loss
    of consciousness

 o  capable of destruction

 o  manned by pilots and co-travellers who could adapt in
    accordance with the climate in which they moved

 o  temperature regulated inside

 o  constructed of very light and heat absorbing metals

 o  provided with mechanisms that could enlarge or reduce images
    and enhance or diminish sounds

Now, notwithstanding the fact that such a contraption would
resemble a cross between an American state-of-the-art Stealth
Fighter and a flying saucer, does it mean that air and space
travel was well known to ancient Indians and aeroplanes
flourished in India when the rest of the world was just about
learning the rudiments of agriculture?

Not really (the perception of the absence of proof is no proof
of the proof's absence.  -  Jai Maharaj), for the manufacturing
processes described alongside are delightfully diffuse and
deliberately vague. But it does display a breathtaking expanse
of imagination which, had it ever been implemented, would have
propelled us even further than Star Trek. - Mukul Sharma

Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational purposes of research and open discussion.

Jai Maharaj

Jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer

  "A king, though endowed with little prowess, starting on an
expedition at the proper time, in view of the good positions of
the planets, achieves greatness that is eulogised in the
scriptures." - Brhat Samhita, 104.60

http://www.flex.com/~jai
Om Shanti






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   Apr > Apr 8

                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:18:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:18:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:25:24 EST
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description
>To: updates@globalserve.net

<snip>

>No one can seriously contend he used BOTH a stopwatch AND his
>instrument clock at the same time while trying to watch the
>bizarre UFO's AND while still flying a plane!!  Especially since
>in nearly 40 years of interviews Arnold NEVER says he had used
>TWO timepieces at the same time when he clocked the UFOs.  The
>reporters did not misquote Arnold on this point as some of the
>contradictions are from direct verbatim quotes of Arnold
>including a recorded radio interview (see above).  The weight of
>evidence indicates Arnold used his instrument panel clock to
>time the UFO flight, and the "stop watch" or "watch" he
>purportedly took out of his pocket to do the UFO timing was a
>complete fiction.  I cannot see how this could be an honest
>confusion over familiar objects in everyday use.  Confusion over
>the unknown I can understand.


Tsk, tsk. It would appear Arnold mis-spoke in the heat of the
early interviews.

Or, we can always appeal to the Skeptical Solution when
confronted with _major_ inconsistency :) by a UFO witness (a
type of person who is often inconsistent, in error, poor recall,
etc.). Namely we can propose that Arnold _didn't_ time them at
all or if he did, he got the timing all wrong (like he was off
by a minute or more)

Hence they could have been fast airplanes 6 miles away - Hynek,
atmospheric phenomena - Menzel, geese or pelicans - Kottmeyer
Easton and the ornithologists,  or even meteors - Klass and Keay
Davidson in 1997)






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   Apr > Apr 8

                         Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:18:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:27:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:24:11 EDT
>Subject: Krauss' Faulty Physics
>To: updates@globalserve.net


>The following exchange occurred between Jeff Rense and Dr.
>Lawrence Kraus on the Rense show during the debate between Kraus
>and Stanton Friedman.

>Rense mentioned a recent patent by Ernest Shearing (sp?) for
>passenger protection in an electromagnetically propelled
>vehicle. The passenger would be surrounded by a superconductor
>(SC), which would exclude any electromagnetic fields from the
>interior. In addition, the SC shield would be surrounded by SC
>magnets, which Shearing said would also provide protection
>against the effects of high acceleration or high gravity fields
>by induction of eddy currents in the SC walls..

>This was Kraus' response:

>"Until it got to gravity, it didn't sound completely crazy.
>Indeed, superconductors do a very good job of shielding against
>magnetic fields. Magnetic fields, of course, are not very
>strong at all. In the region of the Earth we don't use them
>very much for propulsion. But gravity fields don't produce any
>currents and aren't shielded by anything superconducting, and
>therefore, a superconductor doesn't shield you against any type
>of gravitational acceleration in any way, shape, or form."

>Despite Dr. Kraus' flippant dismissal, he is simply dead wrong
>about this.

<snip>

However, I think for those not expert in Newtonion physics and
electromagnetics we should keep something straight here, namely,
the difference between "gravitational acceleration" and
"inertial acceleration".

Shearing began the potential confusion by stating that a strong
magnetic field would protect against the effects of high
acceleration and "strong gravitational fields." Kraus
apparently agreed wth protection against acceleration but then
responded that he didn't believe it would protect against a
strong gravitational acceleration.

I agree with Kraus that, so far as we know, the superconducting
material won't shield against "gravitational acceleration." But
note that Kraus apparently did agree that the magnetic effects
might protect passengers from "inertial acceleration."

In a vehicle, the gravitational acceleration is irrelevant as
long as the vehicle is traveling horizontally.

The intent of the magnetic field as described by Rudiak is to
help reduce damage to the passengers by eliminating
"differential inertial acceleration" which is the standard
Newtonian second law acceleration: if a body changes its
velocity, the rate of change of velocity, i.e. acceleration, a,
is proportional to the applied force, f, and the constant of
prportionality is the the inverse of the "inertial mass": a =
(1/m)f = f/m. the more familiar form is f = ma. This law is
applicable to point masses or perfectly rigid objects (whatever
they might be). Here "rigid" does have a real world meaning,
namely, of a force is applied to one surface, then that same
force is "propagated" to the opposite surface (in the same
direction as the force) in a time VERY SHORT compared to the
time for the first surface to move an appreciable amount. IN
other words, "rigid" means very little compression when pushed
on by a force.


Gravitation, on the other hand is a Newtonion force that depends
upon the gravitational mass: f' = mg where g is the strength of
the local gravitational field. The gravitation law was also
formulated for point masses or rigid objects. However, rigid
here means ANY body, no matter how "squishable" as long as the
gravitational force is uniform over the extent of the body
(i.e., no gravitational gradient over the length of the body).

The neat thing about the gravitational force is that it acts on
all portions of the object at the same time. Hence if there is
no gravitational gradient, all portions feel the same
acceleration force. (Here I am not being Einsteinian at all!).
This would not be the case in a "high gravitational field" where
there is a substantial gradient in the gravitational force (say,
near a black hole). In that case the gravitational force on one
side of an object might be greater than that on the opposite
side with the consequence that the object responds to the
differential force by stetching. So far as I know, neither the
superconducting metal surrounding nor the strong magnetic field
would protect against the effects of a large gravitational
gradient.

The frog example cited by Rudiak is not a case of inertial
acceleration, and the frog was not shielded from gravity. It's
weight (gravitational downward force) was balanced by the
magnetic (diamagnetic) force of (I presume) ionic currents
within the "frogstuff" that were created by any tendency of the
frog to move (downward) within the magnetic field. There was no
"acceleration" (except in the general sense that gravitational
force appears as if it were an acceleration). The frog didn't
move _relative_ to the magnet (which, in turn didn't move relative
to the earth) Also, the gravitational gradient at the surface of
the earth is _very_ small so the frog wasn't stretched (well,
maybe stretched some angstoms).

In the case of horizontal acceleration of a vehicle at the
surface of the earth the gravitational force will always be
downward, but the inertial force resisting acceleration will be
horizontal. It is the horizontal force that is the one to "fear"
if it is large enough. In a non-protected situation, such as
sitting in a chair, if the drive motors start to accelerate the
chair (relative to the earth), the chair pushes against your
back (assuming you are sitting in the chair). Your back pushes
against your "middle" and, in the meantime (very short time,
microseconds) your front, which has not yet started to move
because of "inertia" also pushes against your middle.... with
the result that your middle gets squished between back and front
(recipe for human jello). This is the effect of "differential
acceleration" which arises because the molecules of your front
are not being forced to move at exactly the same time as the
molcules of your back.

If your front (and middle) could be accelerated at exactly the
same time (and by exactly the same amount) as your back there
would be no squish (sorry, jello). Problem: how to avoid
"differential acceleration,"

As Rudiak has so well pointed out, the magnetic field approach
can accomplish this.  You are immersed in the magnetic field
which is created by a HUGE (?) magnet. (Whether you are also
levitated as was the frog is not relevant at this time; you
could be sitting normally). The field is directed along the
direction of the acceleration. powerful machinery (or a rocket)
accelerates the magnet which, in turn, accelerates its field
(the field moves with the magnet; any radiation effects
ignored), and the field accelerates all the diamagnetic
molecules in your body at the same time (under ideal
circumstances) so that there is no "differential acceleration"
of the various parts of your body. By this means the "vehicle"
in which you are sitting can accelerate at a great rate without
converting you into a 2 dimensional projection of your former
self (i.e., flat against "the wall").

Note that the field has not removed or reduced your inertia. The
force applied to the magnet to accelerate it plus you must be f
= (Mmagnet + Myou) times (the desired acceleration). f = (Mm +
My) a

To recap: the strong magnetic field, making use of the
diamagnetic effect of eddy currents within your body, can
protect you against the "differential acceleration" effects of
high acceleration. However, it is not a gravitational shield: if
you are near a black hole you may find your body stretched by
the gravitational gradient even if you are supported by a strong
magnetic field unless, of course, the magnetic field is somehow
configured to have the same gradient function (change in force
with distance), but in the opposite direction, as the
gravitational gradient.

In other words, if you were in a uniform magnetic field that
supported you "above" a black hole, "on average" you might not
move, but your feet (closer to the hole) would be pulled harder
than your head, so ...... this could be a way to increase yout
height (a futuristic version of "the rack?").

All this previous discussion could be irrelevant if strong
magnetic fields and field gradients are, themselves, dangerous.





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                                Re: Hoax Site

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:18:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:29:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoax Site


>From: Drew Williamson <werd@interlog.com>
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:03:06 -0400 (EDT)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Hoax Site

>List members,

>For those of you who are interested in hoaxes you might want to
>check out the following site. It includes UFOs, amongst Piltdown
>Man, the Lochness Monster, etc.

>www.ememories.com/hoax

I see they have one of the Rex Heflin photos as a hoax.






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   Apr > Apr 8

                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:29:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:53:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:46:58 -0500>


>Forwarded from the SETI maillist FYI

---

>Were Kenneth Arnold's UFOs Actually Meteor-Fireballs?


>From Skeptics' UFO Newsletter #46: July 1997

>http://site034145.primehost.com/articles/0697/arnold.htm

As usual the Klassic Explanation is a Crock! See below:\

ANOTHER FAILED EXPLANATION FOR THE KENNETH ARNOLD SIGHTING
by
Bruce Maccabee

In the Skeptics UFO Newsletter (SKUFON), #46 of July 1997 Philip
Klass has proposed, in conjunction with Keay Davidson, a new
explanation for the flying saucer sighting by Kenneth Arnold.

One wonders why it took 50 years for this explanation to be
proposed.

Mr. Klass has been writing articles and books purporting to
explain UFO sightings for at least the last 30 years, yet he has
not previously "explained" the Arnold sighting. (His first book,
'UFOs Identified' was published in 1968.)

Also, one wonders why a new explanation is necessary because
there are several already. (Isn't that enough for one little
sighting?) The Air Force has officially called the Arnold
sighting a mirage (see the files of Project Blue Book).

In 1948 Dr. J. Allen Hynek argued that Arnold's report was not
self-consistent in terms of distance and size of the objects and
hence they were probably nearby aircraft, in spite of Arnold's
claim that he diligently searched for evidence of engines, wings
and vertical stabilizers and could find none of these on the
objects.

In 1953 Dr. Howard Menzel rejected Hynek's "explanation" and
substituted weather/atmosphere effects, including special types
of clouds and haze layers.

In 1977 Menzel (in 'The UFO Enigma: The Definitive Explanation
of the UFO Phenomenon'; written with Ernest Taves) proposed
water-drops on the window of the aircraft, in contradiction to
Arnold's claim that he looked at the objects through an open
window to rule out reflections.

According to Mr. Klass, writing in SKUFON, the new explanation
was published by Mr. Davidson in the San Francisco Examiner
after some research that was "sparked by a conversation" with
Mr. Klass.

The exact nature of this conversation was not reported, but one
may imagine Klass suggested that Davidson ought to check on the
possibility that Arnold saw meteors.

According to the SKUFON article, after some research Davidson
discovered that "the number of meteor falls reaches a peak
around 3:00 PM," in June in the Northern Hemisphere

Arnold's sighting occurred at 3:00 PM, June 24, 1947.

Thus, according to Klass' article, the large number of meteors
detected in June lends support to the meteor hypothesis.

Klass mentions Arnold's statement that the objects seemed bright
and shiny as if reflecting the sun.

By way of comparison and explanation Klass cites the 6:00 PM,
June, 5, 1969 pilot sighting, which he claims turned out to be
several meteors, in order to point out that meteors, when seen
in the daytime, can look as if they are shiny metal.

These pilots saw the bright objects seeming to come toward them
(i.e., they were looking along the trajectory of the objects)
and thought they were looking at shiny metallic objects. The
pilots thought the objects were close, when in fact they were
over a hundred miles away.

Klass also points out that pilots can make errors (as if we
didn't know that!) The implication is that if the 1969 pilots
could mistake daytime meteors for UFOS, then perhaps Arnold did,
also. However, the Arnold sighting was quite different from the
1969 sighting.

Arnold reported seeing repeated bright flashes at varying time
intervals from nine objects traveling one after another, along a
roughly horizontal trajectory at an altitude estimated by Arnold
to have been about 9,000 feet, and estimated by this author to
have been about 6,000 ft. Arnold viewed them from his small
plane while flying eastward at an altitude of about 9,200 ft.

He was looking to the east, across their flight path from a
distance of about 20 miles. He reported that they were flying in
an unusual "echelon" formation with the lead object highest and
the others lower in progression.

He compared the arrangement to the drooping and flapping tail of
a Chinese kite.

He determined that the flashes occurred as the objects tilted
steeply to the left and right as they flew along a southward
path.

Arnold concluded that the flashes were a result of reflections
of light from the sun which was high in the sky to the west
(behind him).

The objects flew southward past Mt. Rainier and, when they
weren't tilted, he saw them as thin dark lines silhouetted
against the snow on the sides of Mt. Rainier.

When they were tilted but not aligned with the sun so as to make
a bright flash, he saw them as semi-circular at the front with
convex, somewhat pointed rear ends (one seemed to have a double
concave crescent shape at the rear).

By way of contrast, meteors which are traveling fast enough to
appear to glow do not dim to the point of being "not bright" and
then brighten again.

This is because, as Klass correctly points out, what causes the
light is the high velocity of the meteor passing through
atmosphere. The meteor is traveling so fast that it
"instantaneously" heats the air as it passes through.

(Note:Klass gives a meteor speed as 10,000 mph or 2.8 mi/sec.
However, this is lower than that of any body entering the earths
atmosphere from space. Free fall to the earth from a great
distance would produce a speed of about 7.4 mi/sec at the
earth's surface in the absence of atmosphere. Orbital speed,
which is lower than meteoric speed but still large enough to
cause a plasma in the upper atmosphere, is about 5 mi/sec.)

This heating is a very rapid process caused by the meteor
compressing the air ahead of it and raising the temperature
(kinetic energy of the air molecules) to the point where the air
becomes ionized (a plasma).

In returning to the un-ionized state (free electrons reuniting
with the atoms/molecules) the atoms/molecules give off light
which appears to envelop the meteor (one does not see the meteor
itself, but rather the envelop of heated air).

The natural tendency of a meteor is to slow down as it meets
with resistance while forcing itself at high speed through the
atmosphere.

If it slows to a speed low enough so that it no longer creates a
plasma it will become dark (not giving off light) and will not
again appear bright since there is no way for it to regain its
lost speed.

At the high altitudes of meteors (50 miles and up) the
atmosphere is quite thin and easily heated to the plasma state
by the speed of the meteor. Furthermore the air resistance is
quite low, so the meteor can travel a great distance before
being slowed to "sub-plasma" speed.

However, as the altitude decreases the atmospheric density
increases and it takes ever more energy from the meteor to
maintain a glowing plasma.

It is doubtful that any meteor would be still glowing at an
altitude of 10,000 ft, but if it were, it would be quite large
and eventually slowed to the point of hitting the earth.

The suggestion that one.. or several... meteors could travel
many miles horizontally at a speed high enough to glow while at
an altitude below 10,000 ft is not supported by any known
physics of meteors.

Klass points out that Arnold estimated he saw the objects for 2
1/2 to 3 minutes.

This included about 1/2 minute of time before they passed Mt.
Rainier and another nearly 2 minutes after they passed Rainier.
This would be "extra long" for a meteor (most burn out in a
second or so; large meteors called fireballs can last many
seconds).

Hence Klass argues that Arnold's time estimate was probably
wrong.

He points out that "witnesses are notoriously unreliable in
estimating the time duration of unexpected events" and cites the
Mar. 3, 1968 reentry of the Zond Soviet space rocket as an
example in which witness errors resulted in sighting duration
estimates as low as 15 seconds and as high as 5 minutes.

There is an important difference between Klass' example of
witness error and the Arnold sighting: Arnold used a clock!

Klass acknowledges that Arnold used his dashboard clock to time
the passage of the objects between Mt. Rainier and Mt. Adams but
Klass does not mention the time duration reported by Arnold.

Instead, he writes as follows:

"SUN questions whether Arnold...who was focusing his attention
on the unusual obejcts while also occupied flying his
aircraft... would have taken his eyes off the objects to
carefully observe his cockpit clock." In other words, Klass
questions the accuracy of the witness' claims about his own
actions.

If the actions seem illogical to Klass, then the actions are
suspect and, of course, any data resulting from the actions are
suspect.

So, why did Arnold do such an "illogical" thing as look at his
dashboard clock as the objects were disappearing?

Even though Klass used Arnold's letter to the Air Force as a
reference, he does not tell his readers that Arnold wrote that
he intentionally measured the speed:

"I had two definite points I could clock them by" (he was
referring to Mt. Rainier and Mt. Adams)

He reported that he could see the objects were flying southward
so he looked at his dashboard clock as the first object passed
the south flank of Mt. Rainier.

He then watched the objects as they continued southward.

During this time the objects passed over a ridge that is about 5
miles long. According to Arnold "the first one was passing the
south crest of the ridge" as the last one "was entering the
northern crest."

Hence they covered a total distance of about 5 miles. By the
time they were passing Mt. Adams they were so far away he could
only see their flashes.

At this point there was _no_ reason to continue watching
_carefully_ because they were fading out in the distance.
Therefore he wasn't missing anything by taking his eyes off the
objects to look at the clock.

The second hand on his clock showed that 102 seconds had passed.

(Note: he was able to pay attention to the objects even though
flying the plane because, as he reported, the atmosphere was
calm and clear and there were no aircraft in his vicinity; the
closest aircraft was roughly 15 miles north and heading away
from him.)

The calculated speed based on Arnold's measured time between
Rainier and Adams is by itself sufficient to reject the meteor
explanation (is this why Klass did not report the calculated
speed?).

The objects traveled about 47 miles in 102 seconds,
corresponding to a speed of about 1,700 mph, far below any
meteoric speed and certainly not enough to make the atmosphere
glow.

By way of comparison, if one were to hypothesize a meteor in a
level trajectory traveling at essentially orbital speed but at
an altitude of 7,000 ft, it would have required roughly 9 - 10
seconds to travel from Mt. Rainier to Mt. Adams.

Even at Klass' underestimated speed of 10,000 mph the flight
time between the peaks would be only about 17 seconds.

One would hope that Arnold, using his dashboard clock, could
tell the difference between 102 seconds and 10 (or 17) seconds.

To lend further support to his meteor hypothesis/explanation
Klass refers to a bright fireball seen and filmed on Aug. 10,
1972. The film lasted 26 seconds.

If the fireball had been seen from horizon to horizon it might
have been seen for about a minute (but no one saw it that long).
And, of course, this fireball was far above 10,000 ft high. It's
closest approach to the earth was about 50 miles.

Mr. Klass then points out that a "meteor train" would last
longer, sometimes many minutes.

A meteor train is a series of meteors passing over a particular
area. They cover a distance of tens or hundreds of miles and may
not all be seen at the same time.

Klass cites the famous February 1913 meteor shower, reported by
C. A. Chant of Canada, during which "many" (tens to thousands)
of meteors were reported by various observers over a many
hundred mile path.

From any one place meteors could be seen passing overhead for
many minutes ("perhaps 3.3 minutes").

This is very interesting, but irrelevant to the Arnold sighting
since all of his "meteors" were seen at the same time and
covered a distance of only 5 miles.

To further bolster his "very slow meteor" explanation, Mr. Klass
also cites the report by the crew of the U.S.S. Supply of three
"remarkable meteors."

According to the Monthly Weather Review for March, 1904, the
"meteors" were seen for "over two minutes."

However, that is not the whole story.

As reported below, the U.S.S. Supply sighting is not related to
the Arnold sighting except in one way: *they both remain
unexplained.*

------------------

REMARKABLE METEORS

At 6:10 A.M. (local time) on Feb. 28, 1904, while steaming in an
east-northeast direction at a location about 400 miles west
southwest of San Francisco, several members of the crew of the
U.S.S Supply saw what they called "remarkable meteors."

Their sighting was reported in the March, 1904 issue of the
Monthly Weather Review by Lieut. Frank Schofield, U. S. Navy.
Schofield was not a witness, but he interviewed the witnesses
within minutes of the sighting.

According to the report in the Monthly Weather Review, 2:

The meteors appeared near the horizon and below the clouds,
traveling in a group from northwest by north (true) directly
toward the ship.

At first their angular motion was rapid and color a rather
bright red.

As they approached the ship they appeared to soar, passing above
the clouds at an elevation of about 45 degrees.

After rising above the clouds their angular motion became less
and less until it ceased, when they appeared to be moving
directly away from the earth at an elevation of about 75 degrees
and in the direction west-northwest (true).

It was noted that the color became less pronounced as the
meteors gained in angular elevation.

3. When sighted the largest meteor was in the lead followed by
second in size at a distance of less than twice the diameter of
the larger, and then by the third in size at a similar distance
from the second in size. They appeared to be traveling in
echelon, and so continued as long as in sight.

4. The largest had an apparent area of about six suns. It was
egg-shaped , the sharper end forward. This end was jagged in
outline. The after end was regular and full in outline.

5. The second and third meteors were round and showed no
imperfections in shape. The second meteor was estimated to be
twice the size of the sun in appearance and the third meteor
about the size of the sun.

6. When the meteors rose there was no change in relative
positions nor was there at any time any evidence of rotation or
tumbling of the larger meteor.

7. I estimated the clouds to be not over 1 mile high.

8. The near approach of these meteors to the surface and the
subsequent flight away from the surface appear to be most
remarkable, especially so as their actual size could not have
been great.

That they did come below the clouds and soar instead of
continuing their southeasterly course is also equally certain,
as the angular motion ceased and the color faded as they rose.

The clouds in passing between the meteors and the ship
completely obscured the former. Blue sky could be seen in the
intervals between the clouds.

9. The meteors were in sight over two minutes and were carefully
observed by three people, whose accounts agree as to details.

The officer of the deck, Acting Boatswain Frank Garvey,
U.S.Navy, sighted the meteors and watched them, until they
disappeared.

He sent a messenger to me who brought an unintelligible message.

When I arrived on the bridge the meteors had been obscured for
about one half a minute."

(Note: Lieut. Schofield later rose in the ranks to Rear Admiral
and was in charge of the U.S. Navy fleet in the 1930's.)

After reading and analyzing this report many years ago, I
decided to see if I could find the "original data," i.e., the
ship's log, The log is in the National Archives and therein I
found this report by Boatswain F. Garvey for the time around
6:10 AM:

"0400 - 0800 Cloudy to fair; light breeze from WSW; at 0600 wind
shifted to SW; steaming on course NE(1/4)E; executed morning
orders; steam 125 lbs; revolutions 64.6. At 6:10 three large
bodies appeared in the sky traveling from NW(1/2)W.

The largest one egg or pear shaped, with sharp point and ragged
edge to full body aft. In size it appeared to be six times the
size of the sun.

The next one was round and about twice the size of the sun. The
third one was round and about twice the size of the sun. They
were in echelon when first seen and were below the clouds and
travelling fast and rising to directly overhead.

They were dull red in color and were in sight about three
minutes. The largest body would cover all of them. When first
seen, were like an airship."

The log also contains important weather information: the sky was
90% covered with stratus clouds which were moving from the
north. Stratus clouds are sheet-like and typically are lower
than 6,500 ft. There was a light breeze and the sea was smooth.

Perhaps the most important information from the log is (a) the
duration is listed as about 3 minutes, which means the Schofield
did not provide a good estimate of the duration when he wrote
"over two minutes," and (b) there was 90% cloud cover, with
clouds coming from the north.

Fact (b) strongly implies that these "meteors" were, as
Schofield and Garvey both stated, initially seen under the
clouds. That would mean they were traveling at an altitude of a
mile or less.

Schofield's report is more detailed than the log report because
Schofield questioned the witnesses to get more details.

One of the important details is that the angular velocity of the
meteors as seen from the ship actually decreased after the
angular elevation of the sighting line went beyond 45 degrees.

Furthermore, the angular velocity went to zero as the angular
elevation reached 75 degrees and the "meteors" were observed to
get continually dimmer as if moving radially away from the
surface of the earth..

This strongly suggests that the path of the meteors curved
sharply _upward_ and they departed by moving radially away from
the ship which they had initially approached.

The seeming change in direction is one reason to reject the
meteor explanation for the sighting.

Another reason is the low altitude below the clouds. Any meteor
at such a low altitude would be too cool to glow and it would be
falling downward to earth, not traveling parallel to the
ground).

This is one reason to reject the meteor explanation for this
sighting.

This sighting has been mentioned as evidence that meteors can be
seen for as much as 2 minutes from a single location on the
earth. However, as the following analysis shows, this could
happen only under optimum conditions of viewing.

Meteors (that don't reach the earth) burn up at 40-60 km
altitude while traveling at high speed along nearly _straight_
trajectories high above the earth, rather than curved paths
around the earth, at speeds considerably greater than the
orbital speed of earth satellites.

High speed meteors may start to glow at 100 km (60 mi) altitude.
If such a meteor were to travel along a straight path reaching a
minimum altitude of 50 km (30 mi) directly over an observer and
then continue along its path back out of the atmosphere, losing
its glow when it again reached an altitude of 100 km, then its
straight line path intersecting the upper atmosphere would be
about 1500 km (930 mi) long. (A meteor following a slightly
curved path around the earth would have about the same path
length in the atmosphere).

Using a typical meteoric speed of 20 k/sec (12 mi/sec) I get a
duration of 75 seconds.

The minimum meteor speed is for a meteor which slowly "catches
up" to the earth from "behind" and then accelerates as it falls
toward the earth, reaching about 12 km/sec (7.4 mi/sec) as it
enters the atmosphere.

If I use the minimum speed for a meteor I get 1500/12 = 125
seconds or a bit over two minutes.

To see the meteor for this long the observer would have to watch
it continually from "turn on" to "turn off" and effectively from
"horizon to horizon".

Such an event would be highly unlikely, although not impossible
(it would require an observer on a large flat plain or body of
water).

This analysis provides yet another reason to reject the meteor
hypothesis for the Supply sighting. If the meteors were seen to
go from one horizon to overhead, but _not_ to the other horizon,
as reported by the Supply crew, then the maximum time of viewing
would be 1/2 of the value calculated above, i.e., the maximum
viewing time would be about 1 minute.

Hence the reported duration is more than twice what would be
expected for the slowest meteor.

This is yet another reason for rejecting the meteor explanation
for the U.S.S. Supply sighting.

--------

A scientist who is attempting to understand and explain a novel
phenomenon should carefully study the first good report of that
phenomenon.

Before claiming that he has explained the phenomenon he must
demonstrate that he can explain that first report.

Mr. Klass has claimed for years that all sightings can be
explained as misidentifications or hoaxes, with the hoaxes
making up only a few percent of the total.

Yet he has not, until now, suggested an explanation for the
first widely reported sighting.

Now that he has done his "duty" as a skeptic and proposed an
explanation he can join the ranks of the previous skeptics such
as Hynek (who subsequently "converted") and Menzel who failed to
explain this sighting.

It is interesting to note that the person who saw these objects
just as they were passing out of Arnold's field of view,
prospector Fred Johnson, saw them fly nearly over his head.

He was working on the side of Mt. Adams when he noticed them
traveling very rapidly, he thought about 1,000 ft above his
5,000 ft altitude (which would make them about 6,000 ft high,
consistent with the estimate based on Arnold's sighting).

He then looked at one of them with a telescope.

He said they were about 30 ft in diameter, "tapering sharply to
a point in the head and in an oval shape with a bright top
surface."

He could see "an object in the tail switching from side to side"
like a magnet (compass needle).

Furthermore, his compass wobbled back and forth as they passed
over.

He heard no noise from the objects.

His last view of them was as they were "standing on edge banking
into a cloud."

Clearly he was not seeing meteors.

Fred Johnson's sighting holds a unique place in UFO history: it
is the _first_ unexplained sighting in the Air Force sighting
file.

As for Kenneth Arnold's sighting, in spite of the Air Force
claim to have explained it, today, 50 years later, Kenneth
Arnold's sighting is still unexplained.

For a complete treatment of Kenneth Arnold's sighting see the
1997 MUFON Symposium Proceedings published by the Mutual UFO
Network or the January-June, 1995, issues of the International
UFO Reporter published by the Center for UFO Studies.






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   Apr > Apr 8

                    Re: Moon Rotation [was: Silver Veils,

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:28:00 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:00:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation [was: Silver Veils,


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:24:24 -0700
>From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion


>The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis. The dark side is always
>dark and the light side is always light. This is one of many
>anomalies about the moon.


Skye,

Alas, but it does. Take an orange, or some other equally
puncturable, round object. Drive a wooden dowel through the
center, to represent the moon's axis.

Now, select some other round object (preferably to scale, just
because it looks better) to be the earth. Mark the side of your
orange that will face the "earth".

Move the orange around your faux-earth, keeping your mark facing
the earth...


[Cue Jeopardy "waiting" music]


.....Ah, you're back! Did you, or did you not, have to allow the
orange to rotate once for each trip around the earth?

Granted, the mark faced the earth the whole time, but the orange
still rotated relative to you, didn't it?

It rotated once for each trip around, and so does the real
thing.

It's all a matter of perspective.

Our Sun and every other planet and heavenly body out there sees
the moon rotate. We're the only ones who don't.

Hope this helps, and enjoy the orange!

Greg





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                    Re: Moon Rotation [was: Silver Veils,

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:54:13 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:07:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation [was: Silver Veils,


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:24:24 -0700
>From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:28:35 -0400
>>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

>>Let me first say that I am not a fan of RAMS. Indeed, I am sure
>>that the moon rotates on its axis

>The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis. The dark side is always
>dark and the light side is always light. This is one of many
>anomalies about the moon.

Close but no cigar. The moon _does_ rotate on its axis, at a
rate of once per lunar month. The result is that the moon keeps
the same face pointed at the earth the entire time.

Consider the following mental visual aid ...

At full moon, the moon's earth-side face is bright, bathed in
sunlite. That's because at full moon, the earth-side face of the
moon is facing _toward_ the Sun.

Come new moon, that same earth-side face of the moon is dark.
That's because the moon's earth-side face is now facing _away_
from the Sun.

So in going from full to new moon, the moon's earth-side face
rotates from facing _toward_ the Sun to facing _away_ from the
Sun. Voila! The moon has rotated 180 degrees on its axis with
respect to the Sun. And that's the same way we define the
earth's rotation. Right?

Simple enough if you think about it ... just a matter of proper
perspective.

-Brian Cuthbertson
 Austin Astronomical Society





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   Apr > Apr 8

                               Re: ETH And ORH

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:47:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:17:08 -0400
Subject: Re: ETH And ORH


>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:37:29 -0700
>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: ETH And ORH [was: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate]

>I fail to see the real difference between the ETH and the ORH.
>It's pretty clear that a significant number of UFO cases cannot
>realistically be dismissed as mistaken natural or manmade
>phenomena.

>Therefore, we are left with the nagging question of "What are
>they?"

>I admit to being prejudiced towards objectively real (whatever
>that might be!) descriptions, over subjective psychically based
>descriptions. And when we get to deliberate government
>conspiracies of deception to fool and control the superstitious
>and ignorant masses, that's where you lose me.

>I've seen these objects four times. And each time was with other
>sober and competent co-witnesses.

>I know a bit about physics. Yet, I was unable to rationally
>explain what I, and others with me saw. So, where do we go from
>there?

>I don't think it's any more of an intellectual stretch to
>rationalize these objects as truly extraterrestrial in origin,
>than it is to say they are hitherto unknown psycho cultural
>memetic manifestations, or even stretching further, some kind of
>ancient human secret society or theogeo-political control scam.

Hi Kim,

Be careful now you can't mention that word ET! (Ha Ha!)

On another point I know someone who has been reguarly viewing
Aerial Objects in the sky, which strangely enough appear most of
the time he is out looking.

This week as part of an interview for an up and coming TV
documentary, two of my colleagues were taken to a location to be
interviewed.

Whilst being interviewd, quite suddenly, an object appeared
above them, which was caught on video tape by one of the other
interviewees (The camera crew also saw it)

My colleague has also caught a rather interseting object sitting
over an airbase in Oxfordshire, only last week. He went there to
see the B2-bombers take-off for Serbia.

This tape is being looked at on Sunday by a person who is well
versed in Analysis of such video, and subsequently we will be
waiting on his opinion as to what is on the tape.

Quite clearly the tape shows a circular shaped disc. This
footage was taken in daylight.

So what has my colleague and perhaps many other people in the
UK, at sometime been viewing? I can only tell you what I have
seen and the answer is quite clearly metalic-looking disc-shaped
objects sitting in the sky.

This footage I hope will be shown on the forth-coming TV Doc, so
keep your eyes peeled. I will also keep the list updated with
any progress this video makes.

Really it's not such a big leap after all!

Regards,

Roy..








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   Apr > Apr 8

                Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:45:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 17:49:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 07:05:11 -0600
>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

>Silver Veil/Femptophoton Technology and faster than light
>registration is available for viewing at:

>uc.berkeley.org.ca.us

>Begin here:

http://www.physics.berkeley.edu/research


>If anyone cares to look.

I looked. It's a big site, with links to all kinds of physics
research being done at Berkeley. I poked around for 20 minutes
or so, and couldn't find the references you mentioned. A web
search for "femptophoton" came up empty. One for "Silver Veil"
retrieved your own interview with Peter Gersten, but nothing
else.

Would you give us a specific web page to look at -- the one
where the reference actually occurs?

Greg Sandow






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                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 02:00:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:07:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:24:24 -0700
>Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 20:16:14 -0400
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

>>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700
>>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

>>Let me first say that I am not a fan of RAMS. Indeed, I am sure
>>that the moon rotates on its axis

>The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis.

Nope! The moon _does_ rotate on its axis -- one rotation for
every revolution about earth.

It's confusing, but let's hopefully clarify it with the
following example. Imagine walking around a chair with somebody
sitting there and watching you. Let the back of your head be
the far side of the moon and your face the near side.

Start off south of the chair and facing north. The person in the
chair sees your face. If your head did not rotate as you walked
around the chair, then you would always be facing north. When
you got half way around, you would no longer be facing the chair
but staring in the opposite direction. The person in the chair
would now see the back of your head.

On the other hand, if your face is always pointed inward toward
the chair, your head will make one complete rotation for every
circle around the chair. E.g., when you got half way around, you
would be facing south instead of north, or one half rotation of
your head.

>The dark side is always dark and the light side is always light.

If that were true, then there would be no phases of the moon.
The far side is often erroneously called the "dark side" of the
moon, but like the near side, it rarely is completely dark.
E.g., when there is a "new moon" the near side is completely in
shadow and the far side is facing the sun and completely lit up.

>This is one of many anomalies about the moon.

No, it is not an anomaly. It is a well understood phenomenon
called tidal locking, true, e.g., of the planet Mercury as well.
It also has one side perpetually facing the main body it is
orbiting, namely the sun. The larger body eventually slows the
rotation of the smaller until its rotational period eventually
equals its period of revolution.

David Rudiak






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   Apr > Apr 8

                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:18:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:01:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:55:58 -0300
>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


Hello, all and by the way right on, Don!

>>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:46:58 -0500

>>Forwarded from the SETI maillist FYI

>>---

>>Were Kenneth Arnold's UFOs Actually Meteor-Fireballs?

>>>From Skeptics' UFO Newsletter #46: July 1997

>>http://site034145.primehost.com/articles/0697/arnold.htm

>>by Philip J. Klass,


The Frau _Blucher_! (From 'Young Frankenstien' by Mel Brooks) of
Sceptica (whinnny, whinny).

>>Recent research by San Francisco Examiner science writer Keay
>>Davidson -- sparked by a conversation with SUN's editor --
>>suggests that the stream of 'Unidentified Flying Objects' reported
>>50 years ago by private pilot Kenneth Arnold -- which triggered
>>the UFO era -- may have been glowing meteor-fireball fragments.
>>Davidson learned from a recent book on meteors (Rocks from Space)
>>authored by O. Richard Norton, that the number of meteorite falls
>>reaches a Peak around 3 p.m. Arnold's sighting occurred around 3
>>p.m. In the northern hemisphere, the greatest number of meteorite
>>entries reported over 160 years (1900 to 1960) occur during the
>>mouth of June. Arnold's historic sighting occurred on the 24th of
>>June, 1947.


Uh, I have a comment, what particular meteor shower is noticed
at 3 p.m. is that siderial (sun time ) or Pacific
daylight?-sorry Pacific Daylight didn't exsist then.(except on
Southern Pacific Schedules.)

>Anyway thanks Brain for a great laugh. It's amazing how someone
>can run off 600 or 700 words on pure nonsense without seeing
>themselves how foolish it is. Meteors flying horizontally for
>long periods of time, weaving in and out of mountains.

Absolutey, darn slow moving meteors, always a problem!!

>Where do some of these rocket scientists come from? Come on
>Phil. Jesus did you ever read the reports? Do you know even a
>tiny amount about the behaviour of meteors? And this was on the
>SETI List?!!


Well, Arnold's sighting was not what he expected. and what ever
it was it cannot be explained by ah, daylight fireballs.

Again, any one who is foolish enough to try to define what UFOs
are whether "space brothers" or "a bit of undigested beef"
theories we cannot really define the Phenomonon. We do not Know
period, end of sentence. Having been a "nuts and bolts"
experiencer, and a student of things UFO ever since, I cannot
fathom those who are willing to say: Swamp Gas, Helicopter,
Abductor, Space Brother. We do not know as a group.

The field of study is further detracted by Bozoids of the likes
of Bell and Co. Greer, and others, like Goatwolf who seem to
prey on the unthinking.

We can ferret around trying to define UFOs in the final cut, at
least for now, We don't know.

- GT McCoy

Ps. Klass and other Hyper-Sceptics are also in this group.

GT
McCoy -Line Rider

"There ain't nobody in the
Middle but a yellow stripe
and Dead Armadillos!"
-Anon-






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   Apr > Apr 8

                         Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:18:05 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:14:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:30:36 EDT
>Subject: Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>Jim,

>Inertial and gravitational mass are the same thing. In the
>floating frog experiment, the earth is pulling on the frog with
>a force that would cause 1g of downward acceleration. The magnet
>is pushing the frog away with a force that would also cause 1g
>of acceleration, only in the opposite direction. The net
>acceleration is zero. The frog is weightless.

>To avoid confusion, move the whole situation far out into space
>and far away from any gravitationally attracting body. Now we
>don't have to think of gravity, only inertial forces. If a
>spacecraft moves at constant velocity, the frog floats
>weightless in the spacecraft. If one now accelerates the
>spacecraft, the frog will "fall" to the rear of the craft and be
>pressed against the wall by the inertial forces. The frog now
>has weight. As Einstein pointed out, in a local reference frame,
>there is no way to distinguish between the force of gravity and
>inertial forces produced by acceleration (his principle of
>equivalence).

>Now place the inertia compensating magnet between the rear wall
>and the frog with a magnetic field that pushes the frog forward
>using the diamagnetic force with exactly the same acceleration
>as the spacecraft.  Since every atom in the frog is
>simultaneously and equally accelerated (ideally), the frog again
>remains weightless and feels no inertial force.

>The key to inertia cancellation is the simultaneous equal
>acceleration of every atom in the frog or astronaut's body.


Hello David,

So the trick, then, is to get the entire spacecraft to be
enveloped within a uniform magnetic-like field capable of huge
intensity and generated within, with field strength and
direction variable at will so as to exactly compensate the
craft's variable acceleration (and gravity), but having
precisely equal strength and direction everywhere within for
every component and item within the craft and its exterior --
whether some components be paramagnetic, others diamagnetic, or
metals, dielectrics, liquids, alien bodies, etc. It still sounds
to me like this will need to wait until another 30 centuries or
so before anything like it is achievable by us earthlings. Or it
would need to be something other than the magnetism we know of.

Jim Deardorff
Corvallis, Oregon
E-mail: deardorj@proaxis.com
Home page: http://www.proaxis.com/~deardorj/index.htm






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                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 01:08:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:26:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:24:24 -0700
>From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:28:35 -0400
>>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

>>>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700
>>>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

>>Let me first say that I am not a fan of RAMS. Indeed, I am sure
>>that the moon rotates on its axis

>The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis. The dark side is always
>dark and the light side is always light. This is one of many
>anomalies about the moon.    [ - S.T.]

Dear Skye,

I beg to differ.

The Moon does indeed rotate on its axis, with a period of
rotation matching that of its orbit around the Earth, so that
one side always faces the Earth, and one side always faces away.

Pick any spot on the moon other than the north and south poles.
Pick such a spot at random.

It will spend one half of the lunar month in blazing sunlight,
and the other half in darkness.

There is no "dark side" or "lighted side" per se, and never has
been. Rather, there is the side we could always see, and (until
the space age the opposite side we could never see.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

=  =  =  =  =.







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                   Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!

From: Rory Lushman <rory.l@zen.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:28:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:41:08 -0400
Subject: Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!


From: Rory Lushman <rory.l@zen.co.uk>
Date: Thursday, 8th April 1999. 14:25
Subject: Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!
To: updates@globalserve.net

>From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999
19:13:43 EDT >Subject: Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!
>To: updates@globalserve.net

As someone who has never been a member of BUFORA, I have watched
with great amusement both sides of this great debate continue. I
have in previous posts made my feelings known on various
subjects.

Before I tackle the BUFORA fan club, I would ask Max this
question. Why recently has the number of television programmes
turned to the likes of Andy Roberts, Dave Clarke, Tim Matthews,
and myself to appear on them. I was in London Tuesday filming
with London Weekend Television.

The programme called "The Unknown" will air in September. Why
should we be asked to appear on these programmes if we are super
sceptical. The tide of opinion is now turning against the ET
theory - although not altogether before someone jumps on my
case.

We went to a field in Surrey and 7 of us were asked to describe
footage we had shot. I made it quite clear that what I had
filmed probably had a rational explanation born of this Earth.
Whilst the crew were setting up a number of the guests pointed
to the sky and immediately they were at high alert.

The object was a plane and quite clearly so, yet some of these
people were jumping up and down crying UFO. These people wanted
it to be a UFO and so saw one. This is what Max Burns is doing
with the Sheffield saga. He wants there to be something there
that isn't.

I think that Max misses the point as regards BUFORA. Andy, Dave
and Tim had a passion for BUFORA. All they wanted was a high
degree of research. Much of Max's case is testimony only, with
dubious statements.

Why as a non-member of BUFORA would I support the likes of the
above?

It is simple. Having spoken to these people, they just want
honest investigation, carried out seriously, with enthusiasm.
They base their research on evidence, not hearsay, speculation
or totally made-up evidence.

Remember Lister's I have had my arguments with Tim Matthews but
I supported his research. We have resolved our differences and
are moving forward together.

Max says he has new evidence. For those not able to attend the
'We All Adora BUFORA' conference, would Max please explain what
this new evidence is, especially for our friends abroad?

Andy, Dave, Mike and Tim support many of the people in
BUFORA.

It's the people at the top, the MJ4, who feel they do not have
to answer any questions.

Let them make a public statement via this list on their reasons
for allowing Max to promote his highly dubious case.

I offered to talk for BUFORA but never got a reply. My
investigations have been thorough but never mind. Factual cases
are not wanted, just myths. No, there are no sour grapes but one
would have thought that cases backed up by evidence and research
would get a chance to be heard.

The ripples from Max's fables have certainly spread wide.

Resignations, friendships tested and all for what? One of the
most poorly researched cases.

Roy Hale Bop, e-mailed me privately after my last message on
UpDates, he forgot to copy Lister's on.

I asked him where are all those people who support Max's
theories. Let them be heard, be proud, be loud.

So where are all these supporters?

They number few. The few that do shout out, try to promote
his waffle as a 'freedom of speech' issue.

Also Roy is another who likes to use e-mail pseudonyms. Deny
that Roy, Steve Dorrengeds or Dornegeds. You see Steve, managed
to get his own surname wrong.

As Mike Wootten says:-

>BUFORA might as well throw open its doors to any
>nutcase with a theory......ah, I've realised the flaw in my
>argument here, it already does.

Max has had this case printed on may sites, magazines. Let
BUFORA have him, they will be putting the final nail in their
own coffin. If this is what they promote as serious research,
then what a dire situation British Ufology is in.

Max, the IUN is all about independent researchers, who look at a
variety of cases. Like it or not, the IUN is the way forward in
the UK today.

Just because serious researchers wanted realistic answers to
questions about your work of fiction, it does not make them
debunkers, agents or what other buzz word you choose to use.

I hope Max will be making an audio tape of his lecture, so he
can share his revelations with us all.

Let me tackle some of Max's statements, I apologise if I repeat
some of my statements.

>Me ponders how many sonic events light up the sky with a red
>flash? Please do not jump in with it was a Tornado igniting its
>after burner as it would not light up the whole of the sky.
>_Fact_

Why is this a "fact"? are you an expert? Where do you get this
information from?

You are automatically assuming, because of the report about an
explosion and a flash, that they are both connected.

Max, you have not spoken to this witness, so isn't this a giant
leap? Making assumptions on second-hand information isn't good
research.

>Oh I am afraid the situation has changed and I _do_ have
>"new evidence". You will just have to wait till June the 5th
>Ohhhh, I forgot, you will not be attending...

This sounds like the Emperors dialogue from 'Return Of The
Jedi'. BUFORA will be operational on June 5th with a fully
working battle station..... but the alliance is coming Max.

>So basically what you are saying, Mr Wootten, is that if you lot
>cannot have your own way, BUFORA are crap....

All Mike has done is highlight the shortcomings of this shower.
BUFORA would still be crap, even if Andy, Dave, Tim and Mike did
not comment.

>Libellous rubbish, the only people who have cheapened the
>subject are yourselves with this constant bombardment to
>have me removed from the lecture platform..

I say let Max talk, let him dig his own grave.

>You mean the constant harassment of council members
>don't you?

All everybody wants is answers and the MJ4 choose not to answer
difficult questions. The people who are suffering are the
subscribers to BUFORA. They are probably unaware how they are
being ripped-off with tragic cases such as Max's

>The decision has been made. Its not open for your negative and
>dubious debating skills. Attend or don't attend that's up to
>you.

"Dubious", look that up in a dictionary. Would you debate this
subject in a public forum, would you subject yourself to a
humiliating defeat in front of an audience?

>I recieved the following post only this morning. I feel just
>about sums up the situation:

You forgot to mention who the post was from.

I have never been a member or a supporter of BUFORA, so I don't
need an axe to grind because of who they are but more for what
they stand, or don't stand for.

>And Max, go get'em!!! You've got the audience for sure now.
>They've personally hand-delivered it by these actions.

I doubt it.

>In the last twelve months he has not posted one item for
>BUFORA to UpDates. He has been ineffectual as press
>officer and has done nothing what so ever to assist in the
>work of BUFORA....

Again Max misses the point. Dave stated that he was not informed
of many of the decisions within BUFORA, you can only do a press
release if you have the information.

>Indeed, it could be argued that he has done no more than provide
>up front, privy information for the group who are hellbent on
>taking control of the UK ufological scene, in an attempt to
>discredit BUFORA and therefore take the members to the newly
>reformed IUN - whose key members are Andy Roberts,
>Tim Matthews and Dave Clark. Among others.

Yes there are many others.

>Perhaps it would be best if BUFORA started a serious hunt for
>the real reason why the IUN wish to discredit the Organisation?

Hunt, that's a strong word. BUFORA is a joke within the UK. They
wanted to control the power within ufology. When I say they, I
mean the MJ4.

The IUN is about individuals and their research.

>Then why are you plugging the newly reformed IUN?

Why not? You are so sure about BUFORA, what is there to worry
about.

>All power, no research, no differences of opinions more like

Where's the power base? There are differences of opinion but,
unlike BUFORA, they will be listened to.

>Come and hear my talk with new evidence which the killing
>team do not know about... I am not asking that you believe me..
>I am asking that you at least listen to what I have to say.
>then make your own minds up instead of this biased influence
>being forced upon the uk ufological groups by the likes of the
>IUN..

Will people be allowed to ask questions of this new evidence?
Will the evidence be able to be checked?

Max, I think your e-mail address says it all...hype.

Rory Lushman.
Pendle, Hyndburn UFO Network.
Quite independent and free thinking.
(Is that OK Andy <vbg>)






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   Apr > Apr 8

                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 09:38:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:44:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:24:24 -0700
>From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion


>The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis. The dark side is always
>dark and the light side is always light. This is one of many
>anomalies about the moon.

You must have gotten that from those Dick Tracy comics. Chester
Gould placed the moon base half way between the daylight and
dark sides to avoid the temperature extremes. Unfortunately, Mr.
Gould, too, was in error.

In reality, the orbital and rotational periods of Luna are
identical. Consequently, the same side of the moon always faces
the Earth. You know this, Skye, because the aliens planned it
that way so they could put their bases on the side unobservable
from the Earth. ;-)

Quoting from:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/articles/08733.html

   moon
   the single natural SATELLITE of the earth. The
   lunar orbit is elliptical, and the average distance of
   the moon from the earth is about 240,000 mi
   (385,000 km). The moon's orbital period around the
   earth, and also its rotation period, is 27.322 days.
   The true angular size of the moon's diameter is about
   1/2=B0, which also happens to be the sun's apparent
   diameter. This coincidence makes possible total solar
   ECLIPSES. . .

While gravitational forces can explain the identical orbital and
rotational periods, the real anomaly is that the moon perfectly
eclipses the sun. I wonder why the aliens did that, eh?


Regards,

Terry


"There is no dark side of the moon, really. As a matter of fact,
it's all dark."





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   Apr > Apr 8

                Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:46:44 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:57:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion


>>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700
>>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

><snip>

>>The page ostensibly shows some super-secret reconnaisance
>>satellite called "Silver Veil." Particularly notice the first
>>illustration titled "SV OV-Prime." Scroll to the bottom of the
>>page where an asterisk denotes something Stephens calls a
>>"Femptophoton Analysis Module." To quote from Stephens's site,
>>"Faster than the speed of light (+Sol) detector and analysis
>>module for intruder assessment requiring extraordinary
>>reconnaissnace interpretation," whatever the hell that's
>>supposed to mean.

><snip>

>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:28:35 -0400
>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

>Kim and list,

>Let me first say that I am not a fan of RAMS.  Indeed, I am sure
>that the moon rotates on its axis and that F117's are not used
>as interceptors, to address two of his statements which were
>obviously erroneous.  However, we cannot rely on Physics 101
>when judging today's technology.  Take a look at:


--------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:46:44 -0600
From: "Robert A.M. Stephens" <sti3818@montana.com>
To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion


>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700
>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

<snip>

>The page ostensibly shows some super-secret reconnaisance
>satellite called "Silver Veil." Particularly notice the first
>illustration titled "SV OV-Prime." Scroll to the bottom of the
>page where an asterisk denotes something Stephens calls a
>"Femptophoton Analysis Module." To quote from Stephens's site,
>"Faster than the speed of light (+Sol) detector and analysis
>module for intruder assessment requiring extraordinary
>reconnaissnace interpretation," whatever the hell that's
>supposed to mean.

<snip>

Kim and list,

Let me first say that I am not a fan of RAMS.  Indeed, I am sure
that the moon rotates on its axis and that F117's are not used
as interceptors, to address two of his statements which were
obviously erroneous.  However, we cannot rely on Physics 101
when judging today's technology.  Take a look at:

--------------------------

I'm sorry gentleman,

The F-117F is, in fact, used in intercept as well as sortie.
Please consult Janes for Nov 97 or AVWeek for July 95.

Earth: on axis orbiting body
Moon:  stationary axis orbiting body

Bara and lunaranomalies are in error as well as the gentleman
above.

I am correct.

Moon:  Heim c/~|=B5
Earth: ~Heim c/|=E7>=B6=AC3.14



Robert A.M.Stephens
NASA Documentation Program
Stillwater Mills-Aerospace
KSC-PIB/shuttle/MSF
406-745-3818
sti3818@montana.com
http://members.iquest.net/~wubi/behold/
http://www.nasa.gov/index.html
http://198.116.116.10/gallery/arts/samples/.html
http://www.cdfnet.com/INTERVIEWS






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                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:35:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:01:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:55:58 -0300
>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

>>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:46:58 -0500

>>Forwarded from the SETI maillist FYI

>>---

>>Were Kenneth Arnold's UFOs Actually Meteor-Fireballs?

>>>From Skeptics' UFO Newsletter #46: July 1997

>>http://site034145.primehost.com/articles/0697/arnold.htm

>It's amazing how someone
>can run off 600 or 700 words on pure nonsense without seeing
>themselves how foolish it is. Meteors flying horizontally for
>long periods of time, weaving in and out of mountains.

>Where do some of these rocket scientists come from? Come on
>Phil. Jesus did you ever read the reports? Do you know even a
>tiny amount about the behaviour of meteors? And this was on the
>SETI List?!!

>Don Ledger

Couldn't agree more, Don.

My own position on UFOs is that we need to do better science.
The above example isn't. What really annoys me is that the
promulgators of this stuff are the same people who chant the
"Occam's Razor" mantra at every opportunity.

I don't know what Arnold saw that day, but to say he saw meteors
is about as pathetic an excuse for science as I've ever seen.

Brian






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                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:43:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:03:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:28:35 -0400
>>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

>>>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700
>>>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

>The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis. The dark side is always
>dark and the light side is always light. This is one of many
>anomalies about the moon.

Absolute nonsense! One rotation of the moon on its axis is
approximately equal to the time it takes to make a complete
orbit of the earth--hence it always keeps the same face to the
earth. There is no DARK SIDE!!!

The side of the moon facing away from the earth gets approx 14
days of sunlight, just like the side facing the earth.

5th grade science.

Brian






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                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:52:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:26:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:25:24 EST
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description
>To: updates@globalserve.net

Brad, responding to James Easton

>I think you're being too critical here to the point of splitting
>hairs.  Arnold was clearly struggling with describing something
>that took him by surprise, in which 8 objects looked different
>from the one, and the overall shape was round or saucer-like but
>with an exception of deviation in the rear, and it was all at
>the limits of his ability to perceive detail ("so thin I could
>barely see them," UP, Pendleton, Ore., June 26, 1947).  Thus
>there was plenty of opportunity for confusion and incompleteness
>with three different shapes to try to describe to newsmen
>wanting to hear sound bites:

It's essential to remember that Arnold was looking at a highly
specular object - it was reflective and mirror-like. As I
pointed out in another message, this would tend, first of all,
to make a lens shaped object appear thinner (due to reflection
of the sky by the upper surface, and would also make the bottom
center appear to bulge, as shown in the sketch.

>The
>reporters did not misquote Arnold on this point as some of the
>contradictions are from direct verbatim quotes of Arnold
>including a recorded radio interview (see above).  The weight of
>evidence indicates Arnold used his instrument panel clock to
>time the UFO flight, and the "stop watch" or "watch" he
>purportedly took out of his pocket to do the UFO timing was a
>complete fiction.  I cannot see how this could be an honest
>confusion over familiar objects in everyday use.  Confusion over
>the unknown I can understand.

Ultimately, the important account is the written account for the
Air Force records. As far as I know, that is the most complete
account of the sighting, it is not filtered through someone
else's notes or editor, and it is from a date at least "some
days" prior to July 12 when he corresponded with the AF
regarding it - placing it close to the date of the sighting,
though after the interviews in question.

I am also a little wary of putting too much onto a radio
interview. Arnold was not a broadcaster, and even in normal
conversation one can easily get caught up in an incorrect
sentence or two - broadcasts, where the speaker is tense and
focused on the unusual environment, and where time pressure may
prevent him from realizing he has misspoken, or from correcting
it even if it is realized, are not the most accurate sources for
information about an event such as this.

In any event, the major concern must be that in telling the
story again and again, small distortions eventually crept in in
subsequent years. The written account is consistent with regard
to the time element, certainly, and was composed under no
pressure of the sort that obtains in an interview:

"I remember distinctly that my sweep second hand on my eight day
clock, which is located on my instrument panel..."

"As the last unit of this formation passed the southernmost high
snow-covered crest of Mt Adams, I looked at my sweep second
hand..."

The account is also consistent on the shape, includes a sketch,
and has no mention of the "bat" shape, which I must, therefore
consider at least possibly a confabulation of later years.

Personally, I have no reason to dispute that account as the best
and final word on the subject. There is no reason to expect
memory to improve over the years, though its accuracy, as shown
by Haines (1980) also does not fall off as rapidly as one might
expect.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------





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                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:27:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:27:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:46:58 -0500

>Forwarded from the SETI maillist FYI

>---

>Were Kenneth Arnold's UFOs Actually Meteor-Fireballs?
>Recent research by San Francisco Examiner science writer Keay
>Davidson -- sparked by a conversation with SUN's editor --
>suggests that the stream of 'Unidentified Flying Objects' reported
>50 years ago by private pilot Kenneth Arnold -- which triggered
>the UFO era -- may have been glowing meteor-fireball fragments.
>Davidson learned from a recent book on meteors (Rocks from Space)
>authored by O. Richard Norton, that the number of meteorite falls
>reaches a Peak around 3 p.m. Arnold's sighting occurred around 3
>p.m. In the northern hemisphere, the greatest number of meteorite
>entries reported over 160 years (1900 to 1960) occur during the
>mouth of June. Arnold's historic sighting occurred on the 24th of
>June, 1947.

This is the logical error of correlation = causation, and if
there is a frequent error in skeptical explanations, it is this
one.

Let's look at the appearance of meteors, and their durations:

1) Meteor - luminous streak; Arnold UFOs - thin dark line when
horizontal, specular reflection when rolled.

2) Meteor - less than one to a few seconds except for unusual
and highly visible bolides; Arnold UFOs - timed at 1 min 42
secs.

Or brightness:

1) Meteor - typically not visible in daylight other than
exceptional bolides (usually reported widely); Arnold UFO -
"...a bright flash reflected on my airplane. It startled me..."

Or timing:

Meteor: "June to mid-July has fair rates. The last half of July
has rates increasing steadily as the Southern Delta Aquarids
(July 28) and Alpha Capricornids (July 30) have maxima at
month's end. Even the Perseids are beginning to show a little."
This is not much compared to "Mid-October to mid-December is a
nearly continuous period of heavy meteor activity." (from the
American Meteor Society website).

Mind you, the writer mentioned does not correlate  with a single
_actual_ meteor report from around 3PM that day. Now perhaps
this stems from the skeptical dislike of anecdotal evidence, but
I must say that a single anecdote of a multi-part wildly
brilliant bolide for 3 PM witnessed from some place in
Washington state on the date of the Arnold sighting would make
this at least a candidate hypothesis. How statistics allow one
to predict that, in fact, someone observed something when there
is no evidence that the many who would have also had to observe
the same phenomenon did not, is a real mystery of skeptical
reasoning.

What seems to happen again and again, as I have pointed out here
and elsewhere, is skeptics are so desperate for a mundane
explanation that they ignore the scientific requirement to match
ALL of the data, and simply seize on things like migratory
birds, fireballs, prototype aircraft with the wrong performance
characteristics, snowdrifts blowing in the winds, mirages from
shrimp boats, corona discharges, etc, to explain reports where
the matching characteristic represents no more than, say 10% of
the data to be explained. Unfortunately, instead of following a
scientific protocol, which would require them to actually
mention the lack of correspondence with the remaining 90% of the
data and thus declare their hypothesis invalid, they simply
pretend that part of the data doesn't exist, or, without the
slightest foundation in cognitive or perceptual psychology,
proceed to discount it as confabulation or, without the
slightest supporting evidence, discount it as a lie.

It is a mystery why they don't just settle back and think a
little before trumpeting such silliness, since a mere few
minutes of thought demolishes such hypotheses in most cases. I
suppose they are just not really interested in science.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------






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                         Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:36:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:32:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:30:36 EDT
>Subject: Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>Or one could dispense with biological pilots altogether and go
>to computer, robot, or remote control, possibilities that Krauss
>never considers in his straw man debunking. As Paul Hill pointed
>out, we already have small guided missiles designed to pull
>hundreds and even thousands of g's. Presumably advanced aliens
>could design craft with comparable or better capabilities than
>20th century humans. Maybe the hi-g UFOs observed are simply
>unmanned (unaliened?).

This is an area where data collection would be very useful. We
have very few acceleration numbers and even fewer for CE-III
reports.

The only one where we have even a guess at an acceleration for a
CE-III is Socorro. While the distances and times are a little
speculative, the numbers suggest an about 4G acceleration as the
upper limit. By contrast, the much smaller Marignane UFO
accelerated at 18G, and decelerated at some rather enormous
rate, with a maximum being 624G, the minimum (smooth
decleration, which is in contradiction to the witness report)
being -0.4G.

Accelerations can be found at

http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/methodology/measurementsandexperiments.htm

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------





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               Re: Social Resistance To Unconventional Wisdom

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:19:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:39:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Social Resistance To Unconventional Wisdom


>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Social Resistance To Unconventional Wisdom
>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:18:03 PDT

>In today's parlance, and in this context, isn't "...the sham of
>falseness..." a double negative?

If I may answer for Ingo Swann:

"I'm a remote viewer, not a linguist." :-)

But, besides that, Mrs. Lincoln, what did you think about the
play?

Terry





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                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:49:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:46:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 02:00:52 EDT
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion
>To: updates@globalserve.net


>>The dark side is always dark and the light side is always light.

>If that were true, then there would be no phases of the moon.
>The far side is often erroneously called the "dark side" of the
>moon, but like the near side, it rarely is completely dark.
>E.g., when there is a "new moon" the near side is completely in
>shadow and the far side is facing the sun and completely lit up.

The far side is never "looking" in our direction and the near
side always is, should have said. You get my point, all you
nit-pickers. The sucker doesn't spin around fully on an axis so
that all of it is periodically visible to earth, as all "sides"
of earth would be visible to the sun, for example.

On a related subject, what seems strange to me is that
planet-names aren't initial capitalized. Was shocked when I
double-checked this in my dictionary once.  Usually place names
and proper names of this type _are_ capped.  ????? --

Skye Turell
PLEASE NOTICE CHANGE OF
EMAIL ADDRESS TO
mindtrekker@mindspring.com






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                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:26:55 +0200 (MET DST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:44:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:28:00 EDT
>Subject: Re: Moon Rotation [was: Silver Veils, Techno-babble...]
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:24:24 -0700
>>From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

>>The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis. The dark side is always
>>dark and the light side is always light. This is one of many
>>anomalies about the moon.

>Skye,

>Alas, but it does. Take an orange, or some other equally
>puncturable, round object. Drive a wooden dowel through the
>center, to represent the moon's axis.

>Now, select some other round object (preferably to scale, just
>because it looks better) to be the earth. Mark the side of your
>orange that will face the "earth".

>Move the orange around your faux-earth, keeping your mark facing
>the earth...

<snip>

Hi there,

Perhaps the confusion can be lifted by not stating that the moon
rotates around its own axis, but around the earth's axis.


Henny van der Pluijm
Clearspeech Astronomical Society


            __________________________________________
           /    Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes    \
                      Henny van der Pluijm
                      hvdp@worldonline.nl

                       Technology Pages
                http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
             \______________________________________/





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                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:38:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:24:24 -0700
>From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

<snip>

>The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis. The dark side is always
>dark and the light side is always light. This is one of many
>anomalies about the moon.

Wrong. The moon _does_ rotate on it's axis!  It rotates at
approximately the same rate as the Earth... that�s why you don't
see the "backside" of the moon.

Roger R. Prokic
Rocket Scientist
Deep Space Mission Design
Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp.
Boulder, Colorado USA





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                               Re: ETH And ORH

From: Rory Lushman <rory.l@zen.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:02:45 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:51:09 -0400
Subject: Re: ETH And ORH


>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: ETH And ORH
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:47:46 +0100

>This week as part of an interview for an up and coming TV
>documentary, two of my colleagues were taken to a location
>to be interviewed.

>Whilst being interviewd, quite suddenly, an object appeared
>above them, which was caught on video tape by one of the
>other interviewees (The camera crew also saw it)

Oh dear. I was there Roy and I can tell you it was a plane. I
was talking to the location driver when this happened. I had
watched this plane - a high-flyer - fly directly overhead. I
could clearly see the wings.

Suddenly a few of the others got excited. One asked me if I had
seen it. I casually said yes and it was a plane. But no, they
were seeing a UFO. I can't wait to see this analysis, I know for
a fact it was a plane. Ask Jimmy the location driver.

The camera crew (all one), the director and the researcher saw
something but that is all. I actually have some of the guests on
video staring into the sky expectantly. The location was
Newlands Corner in Surrey, a local beauty spot. There were
hundreds of other people around, some interested in what was
being filmed......none of them got excited by it.

If you look for UFO's you will see them.

And we call this serious ufology. Try harder.

Rory Lushman.

The sceptic on the programme.






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                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 17:15:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:57:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


[The gracious and grateful Skye writes --ebk]

>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:43:44 -0500

>>>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:28:35 -0400
>>>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

>>>>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700
>>>>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>>Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

>>The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis. The dark side is always
>>dark and the light side is always light. This is one of many
>>anomalies about the moon.

>Absolute nonsense! One rotation of the moon on its axis is
>approximately equal to the time it takes to make a complete
>orbit of the earth--hence it always keeps the same face to the
>earth. There is no DARK SIDE!!!

>The side of the moon facing away from the earth gets approx 14
>days of sunlight, just like the side facing the earth.

>5th grade science.


JHC!  Haven't any of you people heard of context?

When we earthside people think of "dark side' and "light side,"
we mean something very specific. And in that context, what I
said was correct.

Sheesh!
--

Skye Turell
PLEASE NOTICE CHANGE OF
EMAIL ADDRESS TO
mindtrekker@mindspring.com






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                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:40:47 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:04:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:35:58 -0500


>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:55:58 -0300
>>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>>>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>>>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?
>>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:46:58 -0500


>>>Forwarded from the SETI maillist FYI

>>>Were Kenneth Arnold's UFOs Actually Meteor-Fireballs?

>>>>From Skeptics' UFO Newsletter #46: July 1997

>>>http://site034145.primehost.com/articles/0697/arnold.htm

>>It's amazing how someone
>>can run off 600 or 700 words on pure nonsense without seeing
>>themselves how foolish it is. Meteors flying horizontally for
>>long periods of time, weaving in and out of mountains.

>>Where do some of these rocket scientists come from? Come on
>>Phil. Jesus did you ever read the reports? Do you know even a
>>tiny amount about the behaviour of meteors? And this was on the
>>SETI List?!!

>Couldn't agree more, Don.

>My own position on UFOs is that we need to do better science.
>The above example isn't. What really annoys me is that the
>promulgators of this stuff are the same people who chant the
>"Occam's Razor" mantra at every opportunity.

>I don't know what Arnold saw that day, but to say he saw meteors
>is about as pathetic an excuse for science as I've ever seen.

>Brian

Agreed. With an approximate time of 2.5 to 4 seconds from top of
atmosphere to ground level for a meteor's travel, how can anyone
in that field even consider meteors? How does something like
this get in a SETI journal?

Best

Don





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                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: dledger@ns.sympatico.ca (Donald . Ledger)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:52:43 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 15:29:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:27:13 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:46:58 -0500

>>Forwarded from the SETI maillist FYI

>>---

>>Were Kenneth Arnold's UFOs Actually Meteor-Fireballs?
>>Recent research by San Francisco Examiner science writer Keay
>>Davidson -- sparked by a conversation with SUN's editor --
>>suggests that the stream of 'Unidentified Flying Objects' reported
>>50 years ago by private pilot Kenneth Arnold -- which triggered
>>the UFO era -- may have been glowing meteor-fireball fragments.
>>Davidson learned from a recent book on meteors (Rocks from Space)
>>authored by O. Richard Norton, that the number of meteorite falls
>>reaches a Peak around 3 p.m. Arnold's sighting occurred around 3
>>p.m. In the northern hemisphere, the greatest number of meteorite
>>entries reported over 160 years (1900 to 1960) occur during the
>>mouth of June. Arnold's historic sighting occurred on the 24th of
>>June, 1947.

>This is the logical error of correlation = causation, and if
>there is a frequent error in skeptical explanations, it is this
>one.

>Let's look at the appearance of meteors, and their durations:

>1) Meteor - luminous streak; Arnold UFOs - thin dark line when
>horizontal, specular reflection when rolled.

>2) Meteor - less than one to a few seconds except for unusual
>and highly visible bolides; Arnold UFOs - timed at 1 min 42
>secs.

<snip>

>It is a mystery why they don't just settle back and think a
>little before trumpeting such silliness, since a mere few
>minutes of thought demolishes such hypotheses in most cases. I
>suppose they are just not really interested in science.


Your last paragraph reflects what I was wondering about earlier.

It probably took an hour or so to hammer that nonsense together.

How do you suspend your powers of reasoning long enough to type
out 700 words on the subject?

Don







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                Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:38:51 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 15:24:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion


>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:45:30 -0400

>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 07:05:11 -0600
>>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>>To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

>>Silver Veil/Femptophoton Technology and faster than light
>>registration is available for viewing at:

>>uc.berkeley.org.ca.us

>>Begin here:

>http://www.physics.berkeley.edu/research

>>If anyone cares to look.

>I looked. It's a big site, with links to all kinds of physics
>research being done at Berkeley. I poked around for 20 minutes
>or so, and couldn't find the references you mentioned. A web
>search for "femptophoton" came up empty. One for "Silver Veil"
>retrieved your own interview with Peter Gersten, but nothing
>else.

>Would you give us a specific web page to look at -- the one
>where the reference actually occurs?

It is a big site.

go here:

http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/center-for-beam-physics.html



-- sincerely,


Robert A.M.Stephens
NASA Documentation Program
Stillwater Mills-Aerospace
KSC-PIB/shuttle/MSF
406-745-3818
sti3818@montana.com
http://members.iquest.net/~wubi/behold/
http://www.nasa.gov/index.html
http://198.116.116.10/gallery/arts/samples/.html
http://www.cdfnet.com/INTERVIEWS






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                      Scots UFO Reports & Video Updates

From: Dave Ledger <dledger@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 00:32:38 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 15:42:45 -0400
Subject: Scots UFO Reports & Video Updates


Greetings listmembers,

Here are a few UFO related reports that we have received
recently at UFO Scotland. I thought that I would post them to
the list for anyone who has an interest in Scotland's UFO
phenomena both past and present.

All reports are unedited with the exception of the source in
some cases.

We would also like to bring to your attention some new video
footage that has recently been posted to the video pages on the
UFO Scotland website with more to follow this coming weekend or
when we can get them uploaded to our server. Please visit:

http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/video.htm

or

http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/video1.htm


All the best to the listmembers and good luck with your various
projects.

Take care all!

From your friend in Bonnie Scotland,

Dave Ledger (UFO Scotland)

----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: UFO SIGHTING REPORT
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:52:28 -0500
To: <UFOSCOT@cableinet.co.uk>
Location: Glenrothes Area, Fife, Scotland.


Hi Dave

I'd like to report a UFO sighting from tonight, Tuesday March
30th 1999.

I was driving home into Star at around 9pm when I looked to the
NE and high in the sky was a very bright orange light hovering,
slightly moving downwards. I stopped the car and watched it for
about twenty seconds.  Gradually it burned out. It looked like
the colour of fire and it was very bright. First I thought it to
be a planet however.  I stopped the car and opened the window
but I could not hear any sound.

It was seen roughly high above the same location as that
September sighting in Drummy Woods. The conditions at the time
were clear sky, almost full moon and fairly warm for this time
of year.  No clouds in sight.

Perhaps it could have been a plane falling, burning out of the
sky but theres been nothing on the news that I've heard.

Thanks to UFO Scotland member, Lewis Burt for this sighting
report.


Another Sighting from ourselves to coroborrate Lewis's recent
sighting report. Here is an extract taken from one of our
internal UFO Scotland members newsletters.This saves me having
to type it all again :0) In the piece which follows, I am
referring to a recent meeting, interview and attempted skywatch
myself and a few of our members had recently, with a UK glossy
magazine (non-ufo related), therefore,.......good publicity
about the UFO phenomenon to the general public. We hope :0)

The extract follows below:
Location: Falkland Hill, Fife, Scotland
Time: Approx 9:00 pm
Date: 30th March 1999.

The meeting with Neil and the photographer went really well and
the recent feedback from Neil seems very positive. However, the
skywatch itself was a complete washout with the weather being
attrocious and visibilty NIL. The photographer attempted to take
some photo's with the rain pissing down on us all and almost a
gale force wind blowing us off of the top of the hill <G>

Happily, the pics had to be re-shot as they didnt come out too
well, which is no real suprise, but a sense of relief was felt
by all involved as the pics themselves, with us looking all
windswept and interesting, freezing and shivering, would not
have made us look our best <G> Sad perhaps but not good :0)

The second shoot went really well and we even managed to have a
sighting whilst we were up the hill (Falkland Hill) posing for
our pics. I'm not too sure what it was that we saw, but we both
(Jeannie and I) got a good look at it through binoculars and
could see no signs of any night time navigation lights
what-so-ever. It was just a white glow travelling across the
sky, no lights, no noise.We observed loads of air traffic over
towards Edinburgh airport, but these aircraft all displayed
visible nav lights etc. Whilst we were witnessing this
object/phenomena, whatever?  The Photographer (Colin) also
sighted an orange orb type anomaly to the South East of our
position, which he mentioned to us briefly. This was around 9:00
pm time.

The next day, I received a sighting report from listmember,
Lewis Burt, who reported seeing a similar or same, orange
orb-type anomaly at approximately the same time from a
completely different location. This has coroborrated Colin's
report and I am now looking for more witnesses to the event.(It
should be said that after chatting with Colin the photographer,
he came across as being very sceptical of the UFO phenomena,
although pleasant, but still reported to us what he saw and he
said that it just disappeared again as he was watching it).
Neither Jeannie nor myself observed the orange orb type anomaly
as we were looking at the white object at the same time through
binoculars. I wonder if the two sightings were connected or did
we just see the moon reflecting off of the fusalage of a passing
jet? It was a full moon that night with clear skies and great
visibility.

Personally, I don't think it was a jet or a helicopter for that
matter as I did get a good look at it through the glasses and
there were no navigation lights at all and it was hard to put a
definate shape to the object as it appeared as just a fuzzy
white light although it seemed quite close to us as it passed by
us to the North-West, also heading South east. It should be
noted that, this white anomaly passed by our position a lot
closer to us than the easily visible, queing air traffic for
Edinburgh airport, so it is safe to assume that this object
should have displayed clear visible navigation lights for all to
see. It did not!

Report by Dave Ledger (UFO Scotland)

****************************************************************

Subject: INCOMING FORM
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:23:05 -0700
To: UFOSCOT@cableinet.co.uk

Name:    Eye-Witness name Witheld by request.
date:     November 3, 1997
location: Crail, Fife, Scotland

Sighting: On the evening of November 3, 1997, I was sitting on
the back porch of my house in the small coastal town of Crail.
After reading an article in the daily newspaper I went inside to
get my wife to show her the beautiful sunset.  We both walked
out and sat down.  We viewed the multi-colored sunset.  We then
got to talking.  And before we knew it the skies had gone dark.
Just as we were preparing to go inside, a distinct feature in
the sky caught our eyes.  It appeared to be an oval shaped
object moving parallel to the ground.

The object had a bright blueish colored lining around the
outside of it.  The core, if you will, was a redish orange
colored.  As it moved, we observed a second smaller object
depart from the larger one.  This was a small circular shaped
aircraft and it was a solid blue.  I can remember a very
discrete high pithced ringing, if you will.  And after about ten
to fifteen minutes of observation, the smaller object, which had
been circling the larger this whole time, seemed to connect or
enter back into the larger object.  As soon as this happened the
oval shaped object proceeded to shoot straight up.  It didn't
shoot up so fast that it disappeared instantly though.  It
seemed to gradually disappear, as if it were exiting the
atmosphere.  This whole sighting lasted around twenty minutes
and left us ! in awe.

****************************************************************

Subject: INCOMING FORM
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 14:46:00 -0700
To: UFOSCOT@cableinet.co.uk
Name :  Witheld
date: : March 13th 1999
location: : Pentland Hills-Edinburgh, Scotland.
time : 9:40pm (approx) GMT

Sighting: Returning to my car after walking my dog. Saw glowing
saucer shaped object rise up from behind a small hill. No sound
at all. It hovered for a few seconds then shot off in to the
sky. NB I do not believe in aliens in our solar-system. It is my
belief that what I saw was a secret government ship, which has
been built in co-operation with other NATO governments.

****************************************************************

Subject: INCOMING FORM
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:02:47 -0700
To: UFOSCOT@cableinet.co.uk

Name : Eye-witness Report, Name witheld by Request.
date: : 6th January 1996
location: : above Grangemouth, Falkirk. Scotland
time : 1-30am till 2-20am

Sighting: From my back door my family have a clear view of the
skies over grangemouth I retired to my bed (downstairs) with my
10yr old daughter around12-45am just as i was dozing off i
sensed something, a feeling, did i hear something i was`nt sure,
i sat upright, my daughter was asleep, my dog was trying to get
comfortable at the bottom of the bed, as i lay there thinking it
was my dog i became quite scared, almost like the feeling you
get on waking from a nightmare all jelly like, however i
snuggled up next to my daughter and i am sure i went to sleep. I
awoke with the feeling my daughter was sliding out of the bed
and i reached over to pull her back into bed, a few seconds
later i felt it again, i spoke this time to her, to stay in bed
and as i spoke i felt scared again and i fell panicky, my dog
was crying over at the window, lie down i said. Again i lay down
and i heard my son running downstairs and shouting look,
pointing to the window with a pair of binochulars,

"There was a plane light" I said, "No! I have been watching it
for ages" said my son with his cousin "look again!" which I did
and I saw a single light in the sky pulsating it seemed to be
moving ever so slightly towards the east and back to where it
begun, and as i was staring at it through the glasses three
lights shot out from the top and two from the bottom, the small
lights jaggedly danced through the air and always returning to
the slightly brighter light, myself, my daughter, my son and his
cousin ran up the stairs to the bedroom above and opened the
window the whole window opens inward.

We stood and watched while all the lights became one one, again
it moved towards the east and back, then it was as if it saw us
and came towards us, it was going to go over the house, I
stepped onto the window ledge looking up it was not a sphere
shape as the lights flashed it left the outline of a v, the same
effect you would get if you stood in a dark room and switched
the light of and on you are left with a shadow of a shape.

We all ran into the front bedroom and opened the window and
waited on it appearing above the house, it did, my daughter at
this time was begining to hyperventilate, we were trying to keep
her calm and watch at the same-time, it began to move s,se and
kept going for what i would say a mile, someone shouted there
was another one straight ahead, this was a plane using it`s
usual flightpath towards west i glanced back at the light and it
had changed directions, towards the plane, as the plane reached
s,sw the light seemed to be directly ready to hit the plane
there was a dark grey mist appeared and the light was gone and
of course the plane was fine.

When we looked at the time it was 2,20am my son said it was
about 2,00am he came downstairs. I did tell others the following
day, but what proof had we got my daughter did not want anyone
to know incase they all thought she was weird, my son did some
sketches of that night, he said he and his cousin had been
watching the light for 15minutes before he came downstairs that
night.

I have heard of abductees becoming ill, headaches, memory loss,
painful joints and muscular aches, is there any truth to this
and if so what can a peson do? I am a or was a sceptic untill
this happened, i believed in god and god only but now i am not
so sure, it is as if nothing makes sense any more.


****************************************************************

RED DISC HOVERS OVER
CARNOUSTIE, SCOTLAND

Source: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 4, Number 11
Date: March 15, 1999
Editor: Joseph Trainor

 "An unidentified flying object spotted in Angus skies near
Carnoustie this morning has left a number of people mystified."

"One Carnoustie resident, who sought to remain anonymous, said
he had been fairly sceptical about such things but wanted an
explanation for what he had seen."

"He and several members of his family, along with a Forfar
couple, saw a strange red disc moving about in the sky between
6:30 and 6:55 a.m. this morning."

"Neither the Coastguard or members of staff at RAF Leuchars
could shed any light on the sighting."

"'I was out walking the dog with my wife and children at the
Black Slab car park this morning," (Friday, March 12, 1999) he
said, "We saw this red oblong shape in the sky and it couldn't
have been the moon or a star because of the way it was moving.
It then just disappeared.'"

A car pulled up beside the family, and the driver stuck his head
out the window.  "'The man in the car said he was from Forfar
and had seen the light earlier, and we could see that he was
distressed.'"

The family continued walking along the beach, and, at 6:55 a.m.,
the UFO appeared again.

"'I'm neither a believer nor a non-believer in UFOs. But this
time it changed from red to bright orange and it was much
bigger,' he continued, 'Anybody looking at the sky could have
seen it.  It was that big.  You couldn't miss it.'"

"A member of the Fife Coastguard said there had been no reports
of flares or other lights."

"A spokesman at RAF Leuchars discounted any official aerial
activity from the Fife airbase.  'I know of no operations in the
area by any of our flights,' he said.

Carnoustie is a port city on Scotland's east coast about 60
miles (100 kilometers) northeast of Edinburgh, the capital.
(See the Dundee Evening Telegram for March 12, 1999, "Carnoustie
disc remains a mystery."  Many thanks to Gerry Lovell for
forwarding the newspaper article.)

****************************************************************

Subject: scottish sightings
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 04:33:50 PST
From: Name Witheld by Request
To: UFOSCOT@cableinet.co.uk
Location: Fife, Scotland


Just a brief mail to let you know how interesting your site is.
I have never been aware up until now of the sheer number of
unexplained or strange sightings there are in Scotland. Seems
like something weird is happening up here ;-)

I would like to add a couple of other sightings to your
database. The first I experienced myself sometime between 1992
and 1994 in kirkcaldy fife, sorry I can't be more specific but I
didn't bother to record the date or time. At the time I was
living in Kirkcaldy and late on a bright sunny afternoon was
looking out of my bedroom window eastwards. My house was on the
north western side of the town and the bedroom afforded good
view across the back of the town. I noticed what at first
apperance seemed to be a low flying aircraft moving at a fairly
slow pace north to south just above the rooftop of a block of
flats opposite. I guess it would have been at a height of
between 100 and 300 feet and moving at somewhere between 50 -
100mph. It's distance from me I would guess would be about 3 - 4
miles which would place it out to the east of Kirkcaldy in the
direction of Dysart

After looking closely there were no signs that this was a plane,
it was oviously metallic as the late afternoon sun was
reflecting brightly off of it but it seemed circular in shape
and seemed to be spinning. After about two minutes it moved out
of my sight.

I'm quite sceptical about this and would like to think what I
saw was a plane however living close to Edinburgh airport and
Leuchars base this sighting doesn't fit with normal aircraft
behaviour. The object certainly was traveling too slow to be a
commerical or military jet and seemed too large to be a light
aircraft. Also the form of the craft was wrong, admittedly the
reflection of sunlight off of an aircrafts fuselage can be
decieving but this was too close and the form too clear to be
mistaken.

The second sighting was by a member of my family a couple of
years earlier than the above sighting. I don't have precise
details but if you wanted more information I'm sure I could get
it. This person had no prior interest in Ufos and has no reason
to lie about. The story is backed up by a friend that was also
in the car at the time. Basically they were travelling from
Kirkcaldy to Burntisland and were on the back road that passes
by Kinghorn Loch. It was late at night but I believe it was good
weather and there was clear visibilty.

After passing the Loch on the right they went round a bend in
the round and saw a large disc shaped object hovering to the
side of a hill. Quite remarkably they reported a bright light
coming from the object beaming onto the field below. They drove
on and lost sight of the object but the incident certainly had
an effect on both witnesses because since then the memeber of my
family has become interested in the Ufo phenomenom and is
interested in finding out what it was they saw.

****************************************************************

--
================================================================
If you see someone without a smile.....give them one of yours :)
****************************************************************
Posted by: Dave Ledger  (mailto:UFOSCOT@cableinet.co.uk)
VISIT "UFO SCOTLAND" AT:
<A HREF="http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/index.htm">UFO
Scotland.</A>
ICQ pager      http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4851425
****************************************************************
THE TRUTH IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER!................BUT HOW FAR?
================================================================
"The sands of time are trickling away from our dear mother Earth
and yet we continue to fight amongst ourselves and destroy our
natural enviroment,leaving all the mess for our children and
their children's children to inherit when we're gone."






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 9

                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:22:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:29:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:24:24 -0700
>From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion


>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:28:35 -0400
>>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

>>>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700
>>>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

>>Let me first say that I am not a fan of RAMS. Indeed, I am sure
>>that the moon rotates on its axis

>The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis. The dark side is always
>dark and the light side is always light. This is one of many
>anomalies about the moon.


Ooops. The moon keeps the same "face" toward the earth (hence no
one ON EARTH has seen the back side of the moon, except as
imaged by satellites). Hence the far side of the moon has a
night and a day each month. Same for the near side. One complete
rotation per 27 days (about), 13 (approximately) per year

Even if the above statement.... "The dark side is always dark
and the ligt side is always light".... were true, this would
require that the moon rotate about its axis once per year.

Here rotation is defined as with respect to the "distant stars".





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                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:39:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:31:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
>Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:26:55 +0200 (MET DST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Moon Rotation

>Hi there,

>Perhaps the confusion can be lifted by not stating that the moon
>rotates around its own axis, but around the earth's axis.

>Henny van der Pluijm
>Clearspeech Astronomical Society


Eh?

Are you saying that the Moon doesn't rotate?

Oy!






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   Apr > Apr 9

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:17:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:33:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:11:43 EDT
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>COMMENTS: We can excuse Brookesmith's ill-informed opinion as
>that of a latecomer to the field of UFO research.

>Us veterans who have been involved in UFO research since the
>60's and earlier are quite knowledgeable of the fact that
>consensus lists of best UFO cases were published in the 60's and
>80's based on surveys of UFO researchers worldwide.


Hi Brad, Errol, All

I am also a newcomer. I have been interested in UFOs since I
was about thirteen, and a researcher some ten or twelve years
ago.

Since I was only just born when you started researching, I must
be but a babe in arms? :-) seriously though Brad, please do not
discount researchers purely because they are younger than the
length of time that you have done your research.

Before I go, Peter and I have had our squabbles in the past so
please do not think I am standing up for him (not that he needs
it anyway).


--

    In an infinite universe infinitely anything is possible.
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
            UFO page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/





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                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: David Rudiak <drudiak@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:40:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:35:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:49:21 -0700
>Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:46:47 -0400
>Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>The sucker doesn't spin around fully on an axis so
>that all of it is periodically visible to earth, as all "sides"
>of earth would be visible to the sun, for example.

From a pre-Copernican, Earth-centered point of view or reference
frame, the moon does indeed appear not to rotate.  But when
placed in the larger reference frame of the universe, the moon
rotates once on its axis for every revolution.

David Rudiak







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                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:45:45 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:37:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


Dear Skye and others:

This Moon spinning stuff has got me whoozy (an old Pennsylvania
Dutch term my grandma used to use, meaning "dizzy" or
light-headed).

>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:24:24 -0700
>>From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

<snip>

>>The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis. The dark side is always
>>dark and the light side is always light. This is one of many
>>anomalies about the moon.

Sorry, Skye, not a thing in the preceding paragraph is correct, as has been
correctly, but only approximately, pointed out by everybody else. But
nobody, so far, has got the thing exactly right. For example (sorry to
single you out, Terry, but you were quick enough to actually cite a
reference):

>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 09:38:52 -0400.
>Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:44:01 -0400
>Subject: Re: Moon Rotation

<snip>

>the orbital and rotational periods of Luna are
>identical. Consequently, the same side of the moon always faces
the Earth.

<snip>

>Quoting from:

>http://www.encyclopedia.com/articles/08733.html
> moon
>the single natural SATELLITE of the earth. The
>lunar orbit is elliptical, and the average distance of
>the moon from the earth is about 240,000 mi
>(385,000 km). The moon's orbital period around the
>earth, and also its rotation period, is 27.322 days.
>The true angular size of the moon's diameter is about
>1/2 [degree], which also happens to be the sun's apparent
>diameter. This coincidence makes possible total solar
>ECLIPSES. . .

The Moon's orbit is _elliptical_ folks, not round. Please pay
attention, now. According to Kepler's 2nd Law of Planetary
Motion, the Moon moves faster when it is closest to the Earth in
this elliptical orbit and slowest when it is most distant.
Believe it or not, its distance can actually vary by about
50,000 miles during a lunar month.

Thus, while the period of the Moon's rotation on its axis is the
same as the period of its revolution about the Earth, it's
orbital speed is sometimes faster and sometimes slower. When the
Moon is moving faster we get to peek around the back edge a few
degrees; when it is moving slower it drops back a little and we
get to peek around the front edge a bit. This is called a
Libratory Motion in longitude.

But there is more. The Moon's orbit plane is tilted to the
Ecliptic by about 6 degrees. Thus the Moon is seen to "nod",
allowing us to peek over the north pole sometimes during the
month and at other times to peek under and behind the south
pole.

There are also several smaller librations and an additional
dialy motion which can add or subtract to the libration in
longitude because when the Moon rises in the East sets in the
West we are looking from viewpoints about 8,000 miles apart.

Anyway, all of this allows us to see 59 percent of the moon in a
30 year period. To check out this take a look at the Moon in
binoculars once a week. Sometimes you will see the "left ear" of
the Man in the Moon, the Sea of Crises, near the edge and
sometimes quite a distance from the edge. In other words, the
Moon does not display exactly the same face to us.

<snip>

>the real anomaly is that the moon perfectly
>eclipses the sun.

Well, since its distance varies by about 20 percent, so does its
size. Sometimes it is distant and so small that it can't cover
the Sun, resulting in a ring of Sun around the Moon. These
eclipses are called Annular eclipses.

And, by the way, because of the mutual effects of gravity (tidal
"sloshing" of oceans and slight deformations) the Earth-Moon
system is gradually slowing its mutual dance, as the Moon moves
further away in its elliptical orbit. Thus there may be a time
when we never have total eclipses of the Sun.

There's not an anomaly here, just temporary coincidence.

Clear and dark skies,

Bob Young







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   Apr > Apr 9

                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:09:44 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:39:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:40:47 -0300
>Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:04:04 -0400
>Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>With an approximate time of 2.5 to 4 seconds from top of
>atmosphere to ground level for a meteor's travel, how can
>anyone in that field even consider meteors?

Meteors grazing the Earth's atmosphere instead of coming
straight down can last for longer and also appear to travel
approximately parallel to the Earth's surface.  That would be
the best possible meteor hypothesis.

This would require that the "meteors" be traveling at a bare
minimum orbital velocity or higher, or at least 10 times or
greater speed than what Arnold calculated.  To have the same
angular velocity as reported by Arnold, this would also mean
they would have to be at least 10 times further away, or at
least 250 miles distant.

Unfortunately Arnold reported seeing them fly _in front_ of Mt.
Rainier, only 25 miles away, the only time he could see their
thin profile against the white backdrop of the snow.  Oops!

And that's just one of a multitude of incongruities between the
a meteor explanation and Arnold's sighting, which have amply
been pointed out by yourself and others.

>How does something like this get in a SETI journal?

Simple -- Krauss' Law.  Begin with the assumption that no matter
what, it can't be artificial and non-human.  Therefore, any
explanation, no matter _how implausible_, is to be preferred
instead.  No kidding, that's what the man said.  Among
scientific skeptics he unfortunately has a lot of company.

David Rudiak






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                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:42:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:45:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:40:47 -0300
>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

>Agreed. With an approximate time of 2.5 to 4 seconds from top of
>atmosphere to ground level for a meteor's travel, how can anyone
>in that field even consider meteors? How does something like
>this get in a SETI journal?

It was actually posted to the SETI e-mail list. So far, I am the
only person on that list to deal with it (I posted an enhanced
version of my earlier message for UpDates).

I got a nice message off-list from a gentleman at NIDS and a
reply on-list from someone else that may have been (it was a
little ambiguous) a complaint that I was just whining about the
nasty scientists, and why was I posting this to a microwave SETI
list? (sigh)

I sent a brief comment about the intent being to critique the
methodology represented by the message and pointed out that both
SETI and UFO researchers can and should be united by an interest
in non-human intelligence.

So far, silence.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------








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                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:52:56 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:48:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:40:47 -0300
>Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:04:04 -0400
>Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

<snip>

>With an approximate time of 2.5 to 4 seconds from top of
>atmosphere to ground level for a meteor's travel, how can anyone
>in that field even consider meteors? How does something like
>this get in a SETI journal?

Hi, Don:

Where did you got these numbers?  A meteor begins to glow about
115 kms until about 50 kms, and if it is large enough then drops
at free fall to the Earth's surface.  Larger meteoroids can
continue to glow to lower altitudes that small ones.  Meteoroid
speeds upon _entering_ the atmosphere range from 11 to 74
kms/sec depending upon whether the Earth catches up to the
meteoroid in its orbit or it hits us head on.

So, 2.5 to 4 seconds might be a good length of time for some
visible meteors, others have a longer "dark" flight.  Also, the
hypothesis obviously refers to a meteor travelling in a near
horizontal path.  A bright, widely photographed fireball like
this back in the early 1970s is known to have had a zenith to
horizon time of 1 minute.

Also, it is now believed that very bright meteor fireballs of
this type are not related to meteor showers, believed to come
from comets, but have their origins in the asteroid belt as
rocky objects.

Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                         Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:57:49 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:51:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics


>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:18:05 -0700 (PDT)
>Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:14:52 -0400
>Subject: Re: Krauss' Faulty Physics

>Hello David,

>So the trick, then, is to get the entire spacecraft to be
>enveloped within a uniform magnetic-like field capable of huge
>intensity and generated within, with field strength and
>direction variable at will so as to exactly compensate the
>craft's variable acceleration (and gravity), but having
>precisely equal strength and direction everywhere within for
>every component and item within the craft and its exterior --
>whether some components be paramagnetic, others diamagnetic, or
>metals, dielectrics, liquids, alien bodies, etc. It still sounds
>to me like this will need to wait until another 30 centuries or
>so before anything like it is achievable by us earthlings. Or it
>would need to be something other than the magnetism we know of.


Jim,

I don't think it is as grim as that. First of all, the purpose
is to protect the occupants from the effects of high
acceleration, not the spacecraft, which presumably can be built
strong enough to withstand the accelerations without field
protection. Spacecraft can be built of very strong materials
such as metals, carbon fiber composites, etc., whereas humans
are mostly jelly. We're the ones who need help. So the magnets
need only enclose the passengers, not the entire spacecraft.

If necessary, the spacecraft could be made of nonferrous
materials, which they basically are already because of weight
considerations. Interaction between the magnets and the
spacecraft probably wouldn't be that severe a problem to begin
with, because the magnetic field of the toroids falls off rather
quickly with distance. And if there is still a problem, then the
entire magnet/passenger compartment could be enclosed with a
superconducting shield.

Any electronics within the passenger compartment would also have
to be shielded. Or maybe something akin to fiberoptical control
interfaces would have to be developed. None of these problems
seem inherently insurmountable. Hey, nobody said it would be
easy to engineer such a thing.

To compensate 100 g acceleration, we would need superconducting
magnets with just one order of magnitude greater magnetic fields
than what we have now. If a 16 Tesla SC magnet generates 1 g of
diamagnetic acceleration on the frog (exactly compensating for
the 1g gravitational acceleration in the opposite direction),
then a 160 Tesla field would shoot the frog out of the magnet at
100g acceleration (since the diamagnetic force goes up as the
square of the field).

To the best of my knowledge, there are 80 Tesla continuously
operating experimental magnets already in existence.
Unfortunately they tend to be either conventional toroids using
either copper or silver wire or hybrids with an inner SC magnet
surrounded by an outer non-SC toroid. Because copper and silver
have finite resistance and it takes a lot of current to get
these high fields, the wire has to be continuously cooled with
rivers of water or the whole thing would melt down in a hurry.
So obviously that isn't going to work.

The magnets would have to be superconductors, and we just don't
have any that strong yet. The main problem is that with present
superconductors, the superconductivity breaks down if the
current density gets too high. So we would need superconducting
materials with ten times the current density carrying capacity
of present SC's. Having them be room temperature SC's wouldn't
hurt either, since it would eliminate all that clunky and heavy
cryogenic cooling equipment one would otherwise need to maintain
the low temperatures conventional SC's require.

As futuristic as this may sound, we may not be that far off from
realizing such materials. E.g., it has been recently reported
that laboratory carbon nanotubules exhibit superconducting
properties at room temperatures. This could be a tremendous
breakthrough if true. Carbon nanotubules also have other highly
desirable properties for high-field magnets, being lighter in
weight than conventional metallic low temperature or ceramic
high temperature SC's, and incredibly strong (30 to 100 times
the tensile strength of steel). That would help hold these huge
magnets together, because the outward pressures on them are
tremendous. They have to be carefully designed not to explode.

Another emerging technology with much promise is nanotechnology,
the assemblage of exactly specificied materials at the atomic
level. That would permit, e.g., the creation of perfect
materials lacking all normal crystalline flaws such as
dislocations. It is these flaws in present materials which limit
their strength, hardness, and heat resistance. It
superconductors, it may also also limit their current carrying
capacity. Do away with the flaws and we may be able to achieve
the necessary currents in already known superconducting
materials.

As an aside, long before he got embroiled in the present-day
"Majestic-12" controversy, Dr. Bob Wood was a research and
development manager for McDonnell Douglass. In 1966 he convinced
M-D to fund a UFO research group to brainstorm ways in which
principles derived from operations of UFOs might be applied to
human aerospace technology. Through quite independent arguments,
they deduced that a craft could be supported by a strong
magnetic field if SC magnets could be developed with 10 times
the current carrying capacity of existing ones. Wood then
describes what happened when he presented this result before
Edward Condon and other members of the Condon panel ("A Little
Physics...A Little Friction: A Close Encounter With The Condon
Committee, IUR, July/Aug 1993):

"I gave my briefing, giving a little background, and quickly got
to evaluating the design limits discussed above. At that time,
during the briefing I noted that the current density required
(10^14 amps/m^2 minimum) was only a factor of ten greater than
that achieved by the best superconductors of the day. Dr. Condon
said, 'Well, there's your answer! You can't do it.' Several
committee members looked at him incredulously."


David Rudiak






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                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:02:44 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:55:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:24:24 -0700
>From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

>The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis. The dark side is always
>dark and the light side is always light. This is one of many
>anomalies about the moon.

and later ...

>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:49:21 -0700
>From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Moon Rotation

>The far side is never "looking" in our direction and the near
>side always is, should have said. You get my point, all you
>nit-pickers. The sucker doesn't spin around fully on an axis so
>that all of it is periodically visible to earth, as all "sides"
>of earth would be visible to the sun, for example.


A grand example of why so many discussions on this list drag on
interminably and then wind up head-first in a bog.

Add rotation to that list of loosely interpreted terms which are
so useful in wreaking all sorts of havoc, consuming vast amounts
of mail-reading time. (UFO, ETH, skeptic, etc, etc). Sigh.

Wading ever onward thru it ...
   -Brian

nit-picker





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                Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 22:29:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 23:07:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion


>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:46:44 -0600
>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion


>I'm sorry gentleman,

>The F-117F is, in fact, used in intercept as well as sortie.
>Please consult Janes for Nov 97 or AVWeek for July 95.

I suppose someone should inform the USAF.

Their own description:

F-117A NIGHTHAWK

The F-117A Nighthawk Stealth Fighter Attack Aircraft was
developed by Lockheed Martin after the development of the
advanced stealth technology and the predecessor test
demonstrator aircraft, Have Blue, was carried out in secret from
1975. Development of the F-117A began in 1978 and it was first
flown in 1981, but it was not until 1988 that its existence was
publicly announced. The Nighthawk is the world's first
operational stealth aircraft. The US Air Force has 59 (now 58 -
tb) Nighthawks.

The F-117A aircraft is also known as the Frisbee and the
Wobblin' Goblin. The mission of the aircraft is to penetrate
dense threat environments and attack high value targets with
high accuracy. Nighthawk was in operational service during
Operation Desert Storm.

<end of quote>

Lacking supersonic capability and being as agile as a Radio
Flyer with wings, the Nighthawk couldn't catch my grandmother in
her '43 Chevy. (Of course, my grandmother used to run "moon" in
the N. GA. mountains.) The F-117 could successfully pursue most
WWII vintage aircraft, except maybe the P-51 Mustang; but,
lacking even a cannon, the pilot could do little more than
provide a Tom Cruise one finger salute upon intercept. It can
carry air-to-air missles inside the craft; but, it loses any
semblence of stealthiness when it opens its bomb bay doors and
will likely lose an dog fight with any modern fighter.  The A6
Intruder would make a more formidable fighter; but, the Navy
knows it is a far better attack aircraft.

>Earth: on axis orbiting body >Moon:  stationary axis orbiting
>body

>Bara and lunaranomalies are in error as well as the gentleman
>above.

>I am correct.

>Moon:  Heim c/~|=B5
>Earth: ~Heim c/|=E7>=B6=AC3.14

This thread is appropriately named.

I admire your paintings; but, you should consider an elementary
course in astrophysics.

Warmest Regards,

Terry






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                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 22:47:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 23:12:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:49:21 -0700
>From: Skye Turell <mindtrekker@mindspring.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Moon Rotation

>The far side is never "looking" in our direction and the near
>side always is, should have said. You get my point, all you
>nit-pickers. The sucker doesn't spin around fully on an axis so
>that all of it is periodically visible to earth, as all "sides"
>of earth would be visible to the sun, for example.

If the entire solar system (except Luna) were to suddenly
disappear, the moon would sit there in space and continue to
spin like a top, albeit slowly, completing a rotation in almost
28 days.

>On a related subject, what seems strange to me is that
>planet-names aren't initial capitalized. Was shocked when I
>double-checked this in my dictionary once.  Usually place names
>and proper names of this type _are_ capped.  ????? --

*We* nit-pick?  Ahem.

It is proper to capitalize "Earth" just like "Jupiter" and
"Pluto".  It is usually not capitalized when referred to as "the
earth".

BTW, what about all those hyphens you waste? :)

Terry





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                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:39:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 23:20:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:46:58 -0500

>Forwarded from the SETI maillist FYI

>>>Were Kenneth Arnold's UFOs Actually Meteor-Fireballs?

>From Skeptics' UFO Newsletter #46: July 1997

This possible "explanation" sounds just too much like a "Majic
Bullit" to me!

--

    In an infinite universe infinitely anything is possible.
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
            UFO page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/






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                            Re: Update from RPIT

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 08:24:47 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 23:31:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Update from RPIT


>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:32:01 -0700
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
>Subject: Update from RPIT

>Dear All,

>I'd like to share with you some new and interesting finds from
>our continuing review of the Fort Worth Photographs.

>The attached image is a composite of sections taken from the
>RamyAlone and the RameyDubose images, each shows some of the
>smaller beam/foil debris.


Neil,

Much as I respect your intentions, I must say that I think you
are seriously off-base on this part of your study. I see nothing
in these photos but balloon and radar target debris, and I think
it is really stretching things to try and make it anything else.

I'm with you on the telegram, but not on this.

Bob






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                   Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 08:26:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 23:44:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?

>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:41:22 +0200
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it>
>Subject: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?
>
>
>Hello Folks!

>We gather from a credible yet unnamable source that ill-famed
>so-called "alien autopsy" cameraman, aka "Jack Barnett", died
>recently for a cancer.

<snip>

After reading the report here that the AA cameraman "Jack" was
dead, I contacted Ray Santilli about it.

He categorically denies it and says that Jack is in good
health.






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                Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description

From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:32:51 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:22:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:18:06 -0400
>Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:18:23 -0400
>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description

>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:25:24 EST
>>Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's Saucer-like Description
>>To: updates@globalserve.net

><snip>

>>No one can seriously contend he used BOTH a stopwatch AND his
>>instrument clock at the same time while trying to watch the
>>bizarre UFO's AND while still flying a plane!!  Especially since
>>in nearly 40 years of interviews Arnold NEVER says he had used
>>TWO timepieces at the same time when he clocked the UFOs.  The
>>reporters did not misquote Arnold on this point as some of the
>>contradictions are from direct verbatim quotes of Arnold
>>including a recorded radio interview (see above).  The weight of
>>evidence indicates Arnold used his instrument panel clock to
>>time the UFO flight, and the "stop watch" or "watch" he
>>purportedly took out of his pocket to do the UFO timing was a
>>complete fiction.  I cannot see how this could be an honest
>>confusion over familiar objects in everyday use.  Confusion over
>>the unknown I can understand.

>Tsk, tsk. It would appear Arnold mis-spoke in the heat of the
>early interviews.

Bruce, misspeaking seems hard to accept when it kept occurring
repeatedly, as Arnold told at least _three_ different
interviewers about using the evidently nonexistent "stop watch"
or "watch" -- the Chicago Tribune, United Press and KWRC radio
(see quotes below).

The means of timing the UFOs was the foundation of Arnold's
extraordinary speed calculation of 1200+ or 1600+ mph which made
his sighting a headline-grabber nationwide if not worldwide, so
it was very important.

DIRECT QUOTE:  "I TOOK OUT my WATCH and checked off one minute
and 42 seconds...."  Chicago Tribune, June 26, 1947 (June 25
interview evidently by phone)

DIRECT QUOTE:  "... I started clocking them on my sweep second
hand CLOCK.... I looked at my WATCH and it showed one minute and
42 seconds."  Kenneth Arnold on KWRC radio interview, June 26,
1947

DIRECT QUOTE:  ".... I clocked them with a STOP WATCH...."  UP
dispatch, Pendleton, Ore., June 26, 1947 (Norman, Okla.,
Transcript, June 26)

The only thing I can think of is that because Arnold understood
the importance of his timing he felt it was important to make
the means of timing something that was familiar and credible to
the average person.  The average person has no experience with
instrument panel clocks on aircraft.  But many people would be
familiar with stopwatches from sports so, by drawing on his
background in sports (former college football player), he
described the timing as done with a stopwatch.





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                              Re: Moon Rotation

From: YourName - Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 03:31:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:42:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon Rotation


>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:43:44 -0500

>>>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:28:35 -0400
>>>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Techno-babble, And Delusion

>>>>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700
>>>>From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>>Subject: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

>>The moon does _not_ rotate on its axis. The dark side is always
>>dark and the light side is always light. This is one of many
>>anomalies about the moon.

>Absolute nonsense! One rotation of the moon on its axis is
>approximately equal to the time it takes to make a complete
>orbit of the earth--hence it always keeps the same face to the
>earth. There is no DARK SIDE!!!

>The side of the moon facing away from the earth gets approx 14
>days of sunlight, just like the side facing the earth.

>5th grade science.

>Brian

Wait a minute here. I am overcome with deja vu.

Aren't you, Vishnu?

Didn't we settle this after many posts last year?

 [Finally! Been waiting for someone to comment -
  Josh wins the thread-ender on _this_ one --ebk]

For those who don't remember, don't go to the archives. Instead,
pull out your Pink Floyd album and the answer will be revealed
within. I don't recommend the tried and true method of ingesting
Clearlight LSD to learn what the Dark Side of the Moon is. It
requires astronaut training before launching with that potent
fuel.

In the Berkeley Website look up Research Projects to see what
Ramses was referring to.

In addition, that wrong guess from Phil Klass regarding the
Arnold sightings shows that he is in dire need of some
Clearlight to see past the Dark Side of his Klasshole.

I don't like to get crude but sometimes one must fight fire with
fire, even though Phil is otherwise a nice guy.

For years he has made rash conclusions and refuses to admit he
is ever wrong, especially when he is proven wrong.

For years he has denied he works for the government. I agree, he
is too foolish even for them.

Josh





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                            Re: Update from RPIT

From: YourName - Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 03:52:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:51:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Update from RPIT


>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:32:01 -0700
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
>Subject: Update from RPIT

>Dear All,

>I'd like to share with you some new and interesting finds from
>our continuing review of the Fort Worth Photographs.

>The attached image is a composite of sections taken from the
>RamyAlone and the RameyDubose images, each shows some of the
>smaller beam/foil debris.

>Though the circled sections in each larger image are of completely
>different beam sections I think you will note in the lower inset
>blowups of the circled areas some striking similarities of style
>and content in the "character strings" shown, infact some of the
>characters show a similarity to some of our "earthbound" numbers
>as in the RameyAlone section sequence "7" "5" "3", though on very
>close examination they are formed quite differently, in particular
>the "5" like character seems to be formed from an arrowhead with
>curved tail, check out the image and you'll see what I mean (I
>hope<g>).

<snip>

Neil and team,

After following this trail from the beginning I sure don't see
much. I don't want to sound too snippy but cheesus, I've been
looking at your images and if you can't get any better resoution
or focus, I don't see anything more than indistinct
irregularities.

You read symbols out of blobs.

I also wish these were girders with shields and heiroglyphics on
them but I can't identify them. Unfortunately, if these were
sticks slapped with glue there would no doubt be a bunch of
indistinct blobs.

The Ramey message is sure a lot easier to decipher than these
girders or sticks. After pulling on straws too long they fall
apart. Please prove me wrong with some clear images.

Josh





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                     Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy

From: Joaquim Fernandes <j.fernan@esoterica.pt>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 14:50:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:02:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy


>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:53:37 EDT
>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:10:55 +0200
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it>
>>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's
>>Samples in Italy

>>>From: Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc <mbalien@tin.it>
>>>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Michael Wolf's Samples
>>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:47:52 +0100

>>>Michael Wolf is right
>>>by Adriano Forgione (Italy)

>>>I must say that the two above laboratories are extremely
>>>specialized: the first, being the Chemical Department of the
>>>University of Pisa, whose director is Corrado Malanga,

>>Well, not exactly so.

>>Corrado Malanga is not, and has never been, "director" of the
>>Chemical Department of the University of Pisa. He is (has
>>always  been) just a "researcher" there. Anybody may check on
>>the Pisa University website.

>>Shouldn't we add that he's been a UFO buff of the alien kind
>>since he was a teenager (nothing bad in that: I've been, too),
>>as well as a member of the council of the UFO organization
>>Centro Ufologico Nazionale (CUN) since 1979 through 1998, when
>>he chose to leave because his own "new age" ideas have become
>>much too far out even for that group?

>Here is an interesting new angle of attack against the
>information given by Adriano Forgione. To me it sounds very much
>like a classical ad hominem attack. If you cannot attack a fact,
>attack the man!


Its a pity that the foreign researchers who are interested in
the Fatima could not read our six years indeep investigation on
tha Fatima sanctuary archives, by Dr. Fina d'Armada and myself.
Because its portuguese only a few can read it and the best prove
of its scientific value is the fact the foreign editors of these
"alien" stuff dont buy it because its exhaustive! Its amazing,
isn't it?

Well in these 460 pages of the original edition (Lisbon,
Livraria Bertrand, 1982) we can "prove" all the psychological
and physics effects of the the syndrome apparitions, both laic
and religious.

Facts, fictious or desilusion its not the matter: all the
symptons are there, from 1917 unttill our technological days.

That's more: we could put the firts hand witness we got from the
douzens of PRIMARY sources and "tell" what happens the 13th
October 1917: a very factual and physic event of SOME sort.

The dry clothes and the heat felt by the witness are well
proved; We can reduce it to a kind of hallucination. An if could
be what a great scientific discovery. It could be the same as
proving an ET responsability in these events!!!

We found a fourth seer, a little girl, mentioned on the
primary documents - the Parochial Inquiry - made in
September 1917, the first religious interrogation.

Not only Almeida Garrett but more discret and competent
witnesses are collected on our book, an essential overview of
these so-called "marian apparitions".

As members of the portuguese scientific comunity we only want to
provide the best historic examination of reports documents never
achieved by anyone else relating the Fatima phenomena.

But the booksellers ar full of spurious and tedious versions of
the Fatima events based on third and fouth hands witnesses.The
reactions to our essay were the best award.

Please, research the correct and up-to-dated cross references.
In Portugal we have them.

Sincerely,

Joaquim Fernandes

University Fernando Pessoa
Porto - Portugal





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                               Re: ETH And ORH

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:09:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:08:34 -0400
Subject: Re: ETH And ORH


>From: Rory Lushman <rory.l@zen.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: ETH And ORH
>Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:02:45 +0100

>Oh dear. I was there Roy and I can tell you it was a plane. I
>was talking to the location driver when this happened. I had
>watched this plane - a high-flyer - fly directly overhead. I
>could clearly see the wings.

>Suddenly a few of the others got excited. One asked me if I had
>seen it. I casually said yes and it was a plane. But no, they
>were seeing a UFO. I can't wait to see this analysis, I know for
>a fact it was a plane. Ask Jimmy the location driver.

>The camera crew (all one), the director and the researcher saw
>something but that is all. I actually have some of the guests on
>video staring into the sky expectantly. The location was
>Newlands Corner in Surrey, a local beauty spot. There were
>hundreds of other people around, some interested in what was
>being filmed......none of them got excited by it.

>If you look for UFO's you will see them.

>And we call this serious ufology. Try harder.

>Rory Lushman.

>The sceptic on the programme.


Hi Rory,

Yes I should have mentioned that, it was inconclusive what was
seen and may well have been an Airplane' as it happened so
quickly.

Just to note, the analysis I was referring to was not of this
incident but a separate incident which was filmed a week before
this one.

Regards,

Roy..






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   Apr > Apr 10

               Ubatuba [was: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy]

From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:37:40 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:34:00 -0400
Subject: Ubatuba [was: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy]


>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:41:22 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy


To Nick Balaskas, and the List :

In a message dated 7 April, you made a very interesting
announcement regarding the Ubatuba fragments :

>There is an erroneous belief, even among some ufologists, that
>the Ubatuba UFO samples no longer exist.

>Back in 1957 Dr. Fontes acquired three small samples of a UFO
>which allegedly exploded over Brazil in 1957.

>Sample #1 was divided into several pieces and was distributed to
>researchers Dr. Luisa Maria A. Barbosa and Mr. Elson Teixeira and
>also to Major Roberto Caminha of the Brazilian Army and Commander
<J.G. Brandao of the Brazilian Navy.

>The reports from Dr. Barbosa and Mr. Teixeira are on record but
>the reports from the Brazilian Army and Navy and their pieces
>were never forwarded back to Dr. Fontes. They may still exist if
>anyone cares to make a search for them.


>Samples #2 and #3 were transferred to APRO, the U.S. based UFO
>organization run by the late James and Coral Lorenzen.

<Tests were done on these two samples, which still exist, and
<their reports are on record too.

<In 1997 Dr. Peter A. Sturrock of Stanford University arranged
>for Dr. Sam Wang of Vancouver, Canada to determine the isotopic
>ratios of Magnesium in a piece of one of these samples.

>The results of this test showed that the Magnesium isotope Mg24
>(which makes up nearly 80 percent of terrestrial Magnesium) was
>nearly absent in the Ubatuba UFO piece that was tested.

>Although it is believed that isotopic ratios for a given element
<are the same anywhere on Earth, they do in fact vary by up to a
<few percentage points, especially for the lighter elements.

>The surprising, different isotopic ratios found in the Ubatuba
>UFO piece (certainly much larger than the alleged 0.01 or 0.1
>percent in the Dr. Wolf's sample), would be impossible to
<account through natural causes alone.

>We are now waiting for other researchers using different forms
>of testing to confirm Dr. Wang's test results.

These findings are in accordance with the observations made by
Paul Hill in his book Unconventional Flying Objects, published
in 1995. Paul Hill noted that the density found for the first
fragment, in Brazil by the Mineral Production Laboratory, was
1.866 instead of the expected density of 1.741, for Earth
magnesium. But it was very close (0.005 higher) to the density
of the pure isotope Mg 26, strongly suggesting its production by
separation of isotopes, a process which has been achieved only
for  Uranium so far (see pages 226 to 234). It would also
explain the high purity of the sample.

Paul Hill was very sorry that this fragment had not been tested
in a mass spectrometer for confirmation. But we learn now that
Dr Sturrock had an isotopic analysis made in 1997 on one of the
samples, showing that the most abundant isotope on Earth, Mg 24,
is nearly absent.

This is an extremely important finding, it seems to me, and I am
surprised to learn this almost by chance, on the occasion of a
debate over Michael Wolf's samples. We are in 1999 -
why so much delay for such announcing a finding?

BTW, why did the report of the Pocantino workshop deal with the
Ubatuba fragments in the form of a "brief mention" (page 209) by
Jacques Vallee? (the man who lost one of the precious fragments
in a Paris gutter, and who is a skeptic on the case). This
report was made public in June 1998, and that's about three
years after the book of Paul Hill !

Gildas Bourdais







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                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:41:59 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:50:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:27:13 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<snip>

>It is a mystery why they don't just settle back and think a
>little before trumpeting such silliness, since a mere few
>minutes of thought demolishes such hypotheses in most cases. I
>suppose they are just not really interested in science.


Very good Mark, it's amazing the ways that they find to explain
the UFO sightings.

Why it's so hard to believe that the UFOs are from the sapce,
that we are not alone in the universe..man, there's a billions
and billions of stars, galaxis, planets...

The flying saucers seen by Kenneth Arnold were bright,
travelling in a pattern way "They were flying diagonally in an
echelon formation with larger gap in their echelon between the
first four and the last five".

"The  lead object looked like a dark crescent; the eight were
flat and disc-shaped. Arnold estimated that the chain they
formed was five miles long. After two and a half minutes, they
disappeared, heading south over Mouunt Adams".

Is possible to the fireballs do it?

THIAGO LUIZ TICCHETTI
Diretor Do Departamento de Publica=E7=E3o e Tradu=E7=E3o Especializadas (=
 DEPTE -
EBE-ET / Brasilia-Brasil)
Director of the Publication Department and Specialized Translation





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                          Max Burns BUFORA Lecture

From: Stephen Gamble <el82@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:54:40 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 02:41:44 -0400
Subject: Max Burns BUFORA Lecture


Possibly as a result of some of Max's postings, people are under
the impression that BUFORA is championing Max's cause.

This is not true.

Max says that he has alternative explanations to Dave Clarke for
what happened at Howden Moor. BUFORA is providing him with an
opportunity to present his data.

However this is in addition, not in preference, to any
presentation that Dave may or may not give.  Like any speaker,
Max will be subject to questions from the audience and if his
data is lacking, no doubt he will receive a hard time.

Any impression anybody has got from Max or anybodyelse that
BUFORA 'supports' his work is wrong, see point 1 below.

We hoped that Dave would come and put his side of the case in
the near future then people will be able to make their own minds
up. We have carried at least one article by Dave Clarke on this
case in the BUFORA Bulletin.

The position is very clear on this :

1. BUFORA does not express a corporate view on the nature of
UFOs

2. That unless otherwise stated, speakers express their own
views and not the views of BUFORA or its officers. Indeed, given
point 1, speakers can never express the corporate view of
BUFORA.

3. That one of BUFORA's aims is "To encourage and promote
unbiased scientific investigation and research into Unidentified
Flying Object phenomena".  To that aim all sides of every
argument need to be heard and subject to rigourous questioning.
If there are defects in any of the methodology then these need
to be highlighted.

4. That BUFORA does not condone the use of its platform by any
speaker to libel/defame anybody, nor is the BUFORA platform a
place for the settling of old scores.

5. BUFORA does not condone things like illegal entry to premises
or release of witness information against the wishes of the
witness.  Speakers can be challenged on these issues during
question time.

Steve Gamble,

Chairman, BUFORA








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                              Filer's Files #14

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:59:29 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:06:15 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #14


Filer's Files #14 --1999,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,   MUFON Eastern Director,
April 9, 1999,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020



MUFON SUPPORTS BALLOT INITIATIVE TO END
UFO SECRECY

In a letter entered into the Congressional Record in 1960,
retired Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, first CIA head,
urgently warned Congress to take UFO reports seriously. His
concern: misidentifying Unidentified Flying Objects as enemy
hostiles could trigger a nuclear response from Cold War
adversaries. In 1989, the Soviet Union echoed that concern in
a publication, "Soviet Military Review." Today, public opinion
polls show that an overwhelming majority of Americans
believe the government knows more than it lets on; their
conclusion adds to the cynicism corrosive of the trust
necessary to democratic institutions. Yet Congress does
nothing. In a bold effort to gain congressional attention, the
Mutual UFO Network, Inc. is supporting ballot initiatives for
next year's elections in various states that permit legislation
by direct and indirect initiatives through voter petitions. Voters
-- actual voters (people that politicians do heed) -- will be
asked to officially proclaim 2000 the Year of UFO Awareness,
urging open congressional hearings. (Scores of current and
former military personnel, et al., stand ready to present sworn
testimony based on personal knowledge, if granted immunity
by waiver of security oaths.) Perhaps the New Millennium can
afford Congress some political cover to be at least open to
the possibilities.

"Direct initiative" produces laws (like a proclamation) when
the people directly place (by petition) proposals on the ballot,
submit them to the voters, and win their approval. Currently,
16 states offer the direct initiative: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas,
California, Colorado, Idaho, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska,
North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah,
Washington, and Wyoming. "Indirect initiative" produces law
when the people submit the proposal to the state legislature
during a regular session, and win approval. Seven states offer
the indirect initiative: Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan,
Nevada, Ohio, Utah, and Washington. "Formidable hurdles,
such as gathering tens of thousands of petition signatures, lie
ahead," said MUFON international director Walter H. Andrus,
Jr. "But if you believe, as MUFON does, that our constitutional
republic depends on an informed citizenry, and that the UFO
problem has as much political presence as it has scientific
promise, then join us in this effort." With chapters in nearly
every state and in 45 foreign countries, MUFON, founded in
1969, serves as the world's largest member organization
dedicated to the scientific study of UFO reports. Andrus
concluded: "Tell your congressman you support this 'UFO
ballot initiative.' Tell us, too. Help make a difference." Editor's
Note: I was glad to support the initiative.

NEW JERSEY

ROBBINSVILLE -- Plan2trvl writes, "I believe I made a
positive UFO sighting on March 6, 1999. The craft appeared
west of me just under whatever bright stars there is out there
tonight. It traveled west to east, then banked to the south. As it
did I saw its underside with four equally bright lights in a
pattern, but no red or green lights, and no sound. The sky was
clear with broken clouds. Air traffic was heavy since, the Mc
Guire Air Force Base traffic is probably due to Kosovo. Did
any one else see this? Thanks to Plan2trvl, 890-6947

PENNSYLVANIA

KING OF PRUSSIA. A professional investigator and her
friend a doctor observed an unidentified object on March 30,
1999, coming back from supper at 10:35 PM. She said, We
had a sighting tonight. My friend was with me and he
observed the object also. I told him, look up there at 11:00
high. Look at those lights! He said, "It's just a plane." I said,
"NO IT'S NOT! When have you seen lights blinking in a
circular motion?" "It's a UFO!" He then said, well, it could be a
helicopter. Then I told him to look to the right of the object,
that's a helicopter. "Well, whatever it is, it is moving fast," he
said. I then said, "I rest my case, - right up here in the King of
Prussia area again." I have a habit of looking up to the sky at
this intersection, you get a good view of the sky. It was
headed southwest from King of Prussia towards the airport in
Philly. We lost sight of it due to trees. We weren't able to
make out a shape, but the lights appeared to be on the
bottom of the craft, one white and one red, they were blinking
off quickly in a circular rotation. Total duration of the sighting
was about 45 seconds. Thanks to J. R. Gillis MUFON
Investigator/ResearcherMS 228-897-9012

MISSISSIPPI

SOUTHAVEN -- J. Michael Long reports a resident of
Southaven, Mississippi saw an unusual flying object that he
describes as a "Little Orb." The observer was standing on his
driveway at 6:45 PM on or about March 31, 1999. The object
was low to the horizon in the northern sky and appeared to
wobble. The orb was observed flying around in the sky and
changing directions. Thanks to J. Michael Long at
msufo@juno.com

MICHIGAN

UNIONVILLE -- The Marlette Leader Newspaper by Stacy
Langley reports that unusual sightings have been the talk of
town and several surrounding communities as residents
compare stories and probe officials about the weird light
spotted in the skies last week. The past few years, sightings
of unidentified objects in the sky have been quite common
and without much explanation. Adiel DeBoever said he was
the first person to call Tuscola County Central Dispatch
around 8:30 p.m. March 16 just after he spotted the lights in
the sky hovering over his home. DeBoever said they were
bright orange in color and looked to be shining from inside
the object. "The lights were not like a spotlight shinning down
from the sky, but they were very noticeable," he said. The
siting was just one of five reported that night by area residents
who say they saw the unidentified flying object(s). DeBoever,
who lives on Cottage Drive, says the lights would just blink out
of sight and then come back on, but the object seemed to
remain in the same place the whole time. DeBoever the lights
were half a mile away to the east just above the Department
of Natural Resources wetlands when he saw them. "They
spanned about the entire length of a football field. There were
two sets of light clusters which were bright orange. The larger
one could have been further away, he said. When my nephew
came out of the house I said, '"Eddie, there's a UFO in the
sky' just joking and then the light blinked out, but came on this
time." "It appeared to separate into six other lights and they all
moved and stopped in the shape of a large triangle object
which then appeared to rotate on its axis."

DeBoever wasn't alone in the sightings. Central Dispatch
reports a call came in at 8:57 PM from a Juanita Township
resident who reported seeing orange lights in the sky. Callers
from Novesta, Township Fremont Township and the Fairgrove
area followed. The caller described seeing orange lights in
the shape of a football field, a Z-shaped formation in the sky.
Thanks to Brad Sparks and Jeffrey S. Westover who spoke
with TV-5 news reporter Jay Brandow before this sighting
was published in the Marlette Leader 3/31/99 and following
the TV-5 broadcast. Brandow told me that Selfridge had sent
two F-16's into the area."

MINNESOTA

DEEP RIVER -- Nan Deressa writes that, "My eye was
caught by a posting by a college professor in Charleston, SC.
He states he saw an elongated Cigar shaped object with
lights running the length of the vehicle. This description also
fits a sighting in 1991, on Highway 2 west of Duluth, was seen
by 6 tourists and a pair of Deputies. It was lit along the mid
section and looked like a 'hot dog' bun with the lights
sandwiched between the two halves. My mate and I saw the
same vehicle up on Co. 4 on the 9th of October 1992. The
craft had a black band around the middle and appeared
definitely silver metallic with the sun gleaming off the surface.
This area is designated Beaver Military Operations Area on
aeronautical maps. Thanks to. Manuel Colunga-Hernandez,
mannynan@paulbunyan.net

CANADA

TORONTO =96 A UFO made two more appearances last week
near Canada's largest city. On Sunday, March 28, 1999,
Aaron W. "was out with a friend in when we saw a glowing orb
over the Lakeview Generating Station" located two kilometers
from the Toronto city limits at about 8:00 PM. "It was a bright,
gold-colored light that hovered for five minutes, then split into
five separate lights and disappeared below the horizon,"
Aaron reported. The following evening at 8:45 PM, he was out
again at Lake Ontario on a beach in Rattray Marsh. I looked
to the northwest, and I saw a bright red light streak across the
sky.

ONTARIO -- UFOs were reported throughout province during
March of 1999, with many sightings around Sudbury and Elliot
Lake. On March 14, 1999, at 3:40 PM, a motorist driving from
Elliot Lake to Provincial Highway 17 "reported seeing a white
cone-shaped object moving across the sky from west to east.
The front end was squared off. On March 12, 1999, a boy
living in Sudbury a city 260 miles north of Toronto, looked out
his bedroom window at 10:00 PM, and saw a triangular
object in the night sky. It had three colored lights--one at each
corner. One light was red and the other two were white. He
also noticed a fourth light in the center of the craft--a smaller
red light which was moving around in a circular pattern. He
said the triangular craft was about as big as an aspirin (held)
at arm's length."

GARSON -- On March 13, 1999, a witness saw a big, round
object moving slowly across the sky in a northwesterly
direction at 1:05 AM. He said, It blinked four times before
disappearing and described it as being 'lime green in color,
oval-shaped and as large as a garbage can cover held at a
distance of 15 feet.' On March 15, 1999, at around 3:00 PM,
two men ice-fishing on Dunlop Lake, "saw a glare moving
across the sky." They described the UFO as "the object was
a lot bigger than a plane" and "it was a silver bullet-type
thing." Both the top and the lower halves were reflecting
sunlight, he said, but the middle section was blurry." On March
20, 1999, two women driving east on Highway 17 from Sault
Sainte Marie "saw what looked like a bright star in the sky at
around 3:00 AM. Then it suddenly came down at tremendous
speed and flew past their car. The witness, who was in the
passenger seat, said that as the large ball of light flew past
the car, sparks were shooting off from end to end. She looked
back through the rear window to see the object, and it
stopped and hovered above the road." Thanks to MUFON
Ontario, Sudbury Section, and Errol Bruce-Knapp / UFO
ROUNDUP Vol. 4 #13 4/4/99, Editor Joe Trainor

FLORIDA

For several hours I talked on the phone to k.t. Frankovich, who
is an especially credible and well-qualified wild life expert.
She is a writer and has made numerous films while traveling
around the world to study dangerous animals. In early 1992,
she moved into her apartment in South Dade, Florida that had
an inscription on the front door, stating "MAY GOD PROTECT
US." She was also warned by neighbors, that very scary
things go on in the Lime Grove behind her home! k.t. had
studied and worked with alligators, snakes, and some of the
worlds most dangerous animals. To her standards a lime
grove is tame in comparison to swamps and wild jungles.
Despite the warnings, she often took her four attack dogs for
a walk in the miles of thick trees. Since two dogs are easier
to handle, she took two of her attack dogs for a walk at sunset
in May of 1992. The grove was abandoned and only
sporadically had she seen a few lime-pickers. At dusk, there
was never anyone else there. This evening k.t. has the
shadows lengthened she saw a few wild rabbits. Then she
suddenly felt that someone was watching but she felt
protected by her aggressive black Labrador and giant
schnauzer. Both dogs seemed to enjoy their walk as they got
into the isolated area not far from woods behind the
Metro-Zoo. Suddenly, she heard someone chopping down a
tree! She stopped and looked around. The dogs did not bark
and stood at her side. Normally they bark at the slightest
noise. The chopping sound started again and k.t. stated,

"Thirty feet away was the strangest looking creature I had ever
seen! Strangely both dogs laid down and put their heads on
the ground. The 'being' was alone, and only stood about 4'9"
tall. I am 5'3" tall, and with me were my two very large,
aggressive dogs. I must have appeared very frightening and
intimidating to the strange creature staring back at me. I didn't
want to frighten the creature away. I had always loved animals
and had never hurt them. They stared at each other for a long
time. Neither of them moved nor did the dogs. K.t. sensed,
whatever this creature was, it was a male. He had strong
muscular legs, and his skin was grayish-pink. It was a smooth
texture like a dolphin. It seemed to glisten and appear
non-porous. He had dark brown almond shaped eyes. His
head was an inverted pear-shape with a narrow chin and no
hair. He had a skinny little neck. The mouth, nose and ears
were all tiny. His arms were long with no muscle and
reminded her of the arms of an orangutan ape. His neck was
thinner than ours and again, had no muscle tone. His hands
were also like an those of an orangutan ape, but there were 6
long fingers on each on each hand. This was not a
homo-sapien or human! Next week we will continue her story.
If you can't wait, the rest of the story her story is at:
http://members.aol.com/KFrnkovich/index.html. Thanks
to k.t. Frankovich. Editors Note: Why were aliens breaking
branches of the growing lime trees. They must use them for
something, possibly for food because all the branches were
taken away. Couple this with the Elk kidnapping case in
Washington, cattle mutilations and the like, it appears to me
they might be foraging for food or building materials.

GERMANY

MAYEN -- My name is Stephan Marzi, I am 14 years old and
come from Mayen in western Germany. On February 11,
1998, I saw an UFO. I filmed it on my videocamera in the
afternoon. It was flat and silver. This UFO was filmed at 15x
zoom. Editor's Note: We would like to review your video here
in the US. Many of the photographs and videos turn out to be
inconclusive due to distance, failure to film the background
and other technical problems. Thanks to
Stephan.Marzi@t-online.de (Stephan Marzi)

TWA FLIGHT 800 WAS DESTROYED BY
MISSILE?

Commander William S. Donaldson, a retired US Navy
Aviation Mishap Analyst supported by former Admiral Moorer
claims that he and his group have proof that a MANPADS
(Man Portable Air Defense Systems) or shoulder-fired missile
was responsible for downing of Flight 800. He claims they
can now prove, before a jury or Congress, that the aircraft
was shot down. Donaldson claims that in 1996, surrogates
from rogue states had access to in mid-eastern weapons
bazaars. $50,000 would buy a Chinese Vanguard, a deadly
new long range missile upgraded from US Stinger technology
transferred to the Chinese in the early 90's. MANPADS
missiles had already claimed 26 civil transport aircraft and
was only a matter of time before a US Flag carrier would be
targeted and hit. In 1994, Maryland State Police found a fully
armed French Mistral MANPADS missile ready to fire under
a busy northeastern air route. In 1995, Iranian surrogate's car
bombed US troops in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and later
smuggled MANPADS missiles into the US from across the
Canadian border. Iranian officials warned the Administration
that they considered enactment of the Iran/Libya Sanctions
Act tantamount to an act of war! The Iranian Supreme Council
approved attacks on major American targets. In June of 1996,
a huge truck bomb was deployed against the US Air Force
barracks complex at Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. Three
weeks later, TWA Flight 800 was shot down only hours after
an explicit warning of an attack was received in London and
Washington. Despite overwhelming forensic evidence of a
weapon impact in the number two main tank of the left wing
and witness testimony of a missile attack, the Administration
would not fund military missile experts or allow the FBI to trawl
for missile parts until after the November 1996 elections.
Thanks to Commander William S. Donaldson Read the entire
amazing document at:
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/twa_clinton_coverup.htm

CENTER FOR PHYSICAL TRACE RESEARCH

Ted Phillips responded to my questions concerning the
February Elk abduction by a UFO in Washington State. With
a database of 4,000+ trace events, one clearly sees three
primary types of objects reported. The Elk case (a very, very
interesting event) falls right into the Group 1.....Small
hemispherical objects, 4 to 12 feet in diameter, 4 to 5 feet
thick, glowing brightly at night, showing a metallic surface in
daylight. These objects rarely touch the ground but remain
stationary 1 to 5 feet above ground surface. External details,
such as "vents" or "extensions" have been reported. They are
reported as silent, humming, whistling, rumbling (at hover).
This type of object leaves traces such as 4 to 12 ft rings which
are burnt or dehydrated. Tree damage has been reported.
Animal & human reaction (sometimes quite extreme
reactions) are often reported. This type of trace related object
clearly is quite similar to the Elk object, I've tried to obtain all
details possible on this case-with little luck so far. As far as
weight estimates--that's a tough one as they don't touch
ground.

The Delphos, Kansas and Langenburg, Saskatchewan
objects (to name but a few) were quite similar in description.
The comment I received the object was only slightly larger
than the elk would indicate a diameter of around 8 feet, I
would like to see a sketch of the elk object in order to see if
the thickness would be around 5 feet. I find this case of
tremendous interest as it seems to fit the Group 1 so closely.
As far as abductions and trace cases--no I have not seen any
direct links in the high strangeness cases, the Delphos case
would come closest. Before the elk I started looking into
levitation cases involving traces and have numerous events in
which humans, animals, and vehicles were lifted or at least an
attempt was made to lift these items. It would appear that the
"little guys" are not so smart after all as they seem to have lots
of problems lifting such objects from the ground (as indicated
with the elk). Thanks to Ted Phillips at theo2042@gte.net
(Ted Phillips)

EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER

Many of my friends doubt the existence of UFOs. I asked that
they listen to Sam Sherman's audio documentary tape called
THE EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER. Sam
took authentic voice recordings from the Department of the
Air Force, Air Technical Intelligence at Wright Patterson Air
Force Base. They provided recordings of declassified audio
records on a UFO event that took place at Edwards Air Force
Base in California on the night of October 7, 1965. It was
given the code name: "The Incident." During this event 12
high tech luminous UFOs invaded secure air space and came
down low over the runways at Edwards AFB, where tower
operator Chuck Sorrels spotted them and notified the
Western Air Defense Command. I have met and spoken to
Sorrels who is heard on the original tapes and in a new
segment in which he verifies the event as is heard on the
archival recordings. What is heard are actual military
personnel, including pilots in planes, spotting the luminous
"UFOBs" and deciding a course of action! F-106 Interceptors
are sent up after the objects by the base UFO officer. The
UFOs are heard to clearly evade the planes at 40,000 foot
altitude.
My friends were surprised learn there had been UFO Officers
and valid chases of these craft. Hear it for yourself, its
probably the best tape ever made and its record of a real
event.
THE EDWARDS AIR FORCE ENCOUNTER, with Chuck
Sorrels present, was used to brief members of Congress
about the UFO reality. I suggest you play them loud on your
hi-fi stereo in a darkened room for maximum effect. The cost
of the tape is $14.95 each plus $2.00 for shipping -- total
$16.95 -- the buyer can send either a personal check or
money order to: INDEPENDENT INTERNATIONAL, Box 565,
Dept. GF, Old Bridge, New Jersey 08857. This a great tape
to listen to with your friends. Have a party!

MUFON JOURNAL For more detailed investigative reports
subscribe by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX
78155-4099 or E-mail Mufon@aol.com.

Filer's Files Copyright 1999 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on
their Websites provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the
item appeared.






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 10

              Max Burns And The So-called "Sheffield Incident"

From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:22:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:15:01 -0400
Subject: Max Burns And The So-called "Sheffield Incident"


I'm not going to get sidetracked by Max's tedious rantings, so
this is my final statement position on the so-called "Sheffield
Incident" until new and independently verifiable evidence is
presented.

After two years' investigation all the important witnesses and
participants who had any involvement in these events have now
been interviewed. As Martin Jeffrey, one of the original
investigators has written, this case cannot go on.

Rumours, anonymous informants, wishful thinking and blind belief
cannot be regarded as evidence that would stand up in a court of
law. Here are the FACTS:

1) No Tornado aircraft, or any other military or civilian
aircraft, was lost, destroyed or otherwise disabled as a result
of an accident or enemy action over the the Peak District or any
other part of the UK on the evening of March 24, 1997.

2) No RAF or NATO pilot of any military aircraft lost his life
or is registered as "missing in action" as a result of any
accident or loss of aircraft on March 24, 1997.

3)There is not one convincing and independently supported
sighting of a UFO from South Yorkshire or Derbyshire recorded by
police or civilian investigators for the night of March 24. All
observations between 7.30 and 10.30pm that night can be
explained as sightings of RAF aircraft involved in a low-flying
exercise, light civilian aircraft and the two search and rescue
helicopters.

4) The only military presence in the search area was a single
RAF Sea King helicopter which reached the scene just before
midnight and left the area at lunchtime on March 25.

5) A police helicopter equipped with heat-seaking equipment,
along with seven Mountain Rescue teams (141 civilians) and
around 100 police and dog teams conducted a thorough search of
50 square miles of moor between 11pm on the 24th and 1pm on the
25 "without any trace" of a crashed aircraft being found [South
Yorkshire Police Log).

6) Jonathan Dagenhart could NOT have seen the crew member of an
RAF/NATO aircraft at 11pm on March 24 because none was lost or
disabled over the Peak District that night. It follows that the
West Indian or Asian man he saw had no connection with the
incident whatsoever other than coincidence. Both the Peak
National Park Ranger and the Derbyshire Police have stated that
the man seen on the Snake Pass by Dagenhart was a member of the
public who had made an attempt on his own life.

7) Jonathan Dagenhart has stated unequivocably that he does not
share Max's interpretation of this man's identity and never
stated that he believed he was a member of a military aircraft
crew. Dagenhart has repeatedly asked for his identity to be
concealed and for his testimony not to be utilised in connection
with claims involving UFOs and crashed aircraft. His requests
have been ignored by Max.

Max Burns is claiming a very serious, earth-changing event took
place on the night of March 24, 1997 over Sheffield and the Peak
District. Independently verifiable evidence must therefore be
produced by Max to support these claims if he expects them to be
given any credence. No such evidence has been offered. Once
again I challenge Max Burns to answer the following direct
questions, questions I have asked repeatedly for the last two
years without receiving an answer:

1) The name of the pilot he claims was killed as a direct result
of an encounter between a UFO and "a Tornado interceptor" on
March 24, 1997.

2) The name of the co-pilot he claims ejected from the Tornado
and was later seen "wandering".

3) The name of the base from which the Tornado flew, and the
registration number of the aircraft.

4) The name of a single eyewitness who saw a military aircraft
intercepting/under attack/being destroyed bya UFO as a result
of a pursuit that night.

I submit that Max Burns will never be able to provide answers to
these questions because quite simply the version of events he is
promoting never took place.

Anyone who continues to support Max's claims in the absence of
answers to these questions, or the production of evidence
acceptable to a court of law, cannot purport to be an objective
researcher.

Max Burn's scenario is so far removed from reality that it bears
no passing resemblance to anything which actually occurred that
night.

Any UFO investigator worthy of the name would have interviewed
those who participated and organised the search and rescue
operation before reaching any conclusion about this incident.
The fact is that Max Burns has not spoken to a single person who
was directly involved in those events and who individually and
collectively concluded that NO aircrash or any kind occurred
that night.

These highly experienced authorities - who have all provided on
the record statements to my investigation - include: Police
Superintendent Christine Burbeary, South Yorks Police Detective
Inspector Christine Wallace, S. Yorks Police South Yorkshire
Fire and Rescue Station Officer Michael Fretwell Peter Shepherd,
Air Accident Investigation Unit, Department of Transport.

Inspector Andrew Howard, Derbyshire Police Inspector Jack
Clarkson, South Yorkshire Police HM Coroner for South Yorkshire,
Chris Dorries. Sergeant Michael Hope, Woodhead Mountain Rescue
Peak District Mountain Rescue Chairman, Mike France Senior
Mountain rescue officials Phil Shaw and Ted Burton Peak District
Park Senior Ranger Brian Jones.

If Max claims a crash did occur then all these people are
effectively liars, or at the very least have been misled and
lied to, an equally serious allegation. Claims such as these
require evidence to back them up - where is that evidence?

I challenged Max Burns that if he was genuine in his contention
that a military pilot had lost his life in an incident over the
Peak District then he must present his evidence to the HM
Coroner, Chris Dorries, by 1 March 1999.

If there is evidence that a body has been concealed from the
Coroner, whatever the circumstances, then a very serious crime
has occurred and it is Max's duty to present that evidence for
an independent inquiry.

Max has failed to present that evidence, or answer the
fundamental questions and the demand for independently
verifiable evidence that his claims require.

Readers can draw their own conclusions from these actions. I
predict that some day soon Max Burns and all those who have
supported his Alice in Wonderland fantasy will find themselves
with substantial amounts of egg on their faces.

The facts and evidence show my conclusions about this case were
correct: namely, there is no case. No UFO, no Tornado, no crash.

Simply one mundane event distorted out of all recognition by a
UFO believer and swallowed whole by a few gullible souls who
should know better.

In the words of one witness to those night's events, Sharon
Aldridge:

"UFOs were never mentioned  until Max came to the pub and
started asking us about it."

*The full 20,000 word text of my investigation into the Howden
Moor IFO will shortly be available to read on the Magonia
website, and on the IUN's New Website, currently under
construction at: www.iun.org

Paper copies can be ordered from the IUN at =A35 from 38 Highmoor
Avenue, Brighouse, West Yorkshire, UK.







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   Apr > Apr 10

                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:44:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:38:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 99 09:35:11 PDT

>a fine spray of irrelevant blather all over the hated Jerome
>Clark when I am not remotely the issue Brad is discussing here.

Mmmm. Why do I have this persistent memory that Jerome's name
did creep into the post to which Brad was responding? And why
does the paragraph Jerome quotes happen to be one in which I was
clarifying what my post was up to?

"Hated". This is so inappropriate it isn't even an exaggeration.
Ah! Of course, it is a joak.

>There is a lot of naive and just
>plain dumb writing about the ETH, but in science (and, ideally,
>even in list exchanges) it is always the best arguments and
>evidence that are at issue, not the worst.

Such as our old friend Trans-en-Provence, and the Roswell
imbroglio - to take a couple of Jerome's favorites. I should
like to see the careful analyses of the psychosocial factors in
those cases, by those who believe they have some ET connexion,
or even some substance as anomalies.

>For examples of thoughtful writing on the ETH [...]
>see Michael Swords's various
>papers (the very mention of which typically drive Peter into
>arm-waving rant and insult)

I've given Swords barely a passing mention on this List. True,
his writings are unimpressive (raved Mendoza intemperately). His
science is inadequate, sometimes radically incorrect, and the
impulse behind his arguments appears to be religious. Quod erat
demonstrandum, but not here. A critical analysis of Swords's
many errors is not difficult, but it is laborious. After that
outburst I really must wipe the foam from my mouth.

Some time back Jerome made a claim that there was "scientific"
writing supporting the ETH. At my repeated insistence, he
eventually cited - somewhat disbelievingly, thinking I was being
disingenuous even to ask - a number of papers, most of which
were by Master Swords. My suspicion that actual practising
scientists hadn't done the business was confirmed, and my
impression that Jerome doesn't know much actual science was
confirmed. If he did, he would know better than to trust Swords.

>given a position sufficiently at risk that it is reduced to
>grasping at those human straws Klass and Menzel, Peter would
>prefer for us to concentrate on the former.

On Menzel (and Taves), I wrote: "Now, anyone may disagree with
their interpretations and their use of the data, in some
instances; but surely no one of good faith can disagree with
their comments on numerous cases that are simply too vaguely
reported to be meaningful of anything at all."

So much for Jerome's good faith.

As for Uncle Phil, I merely remarked that he acknowledged that
reconstructing the then 17-year-old RB-47 case, even with the
help of the pilot, was problematic because of the passage of
time. This is a matter of fact. Where is the straw?

>Actually, I suspect that Peter's and others' fervent
>desire to make us believe defense of the ETH must be put ahead
>of all else betrays their own deep-seated suspicion that their
>own arguments are as wanting as their critics have always held
>them to be.

I'm disappointed Jerome didn't cite that truly loopy
mind-reading paper by Donderi that he keeps up his sleeve for
moments like this. But as projections go, the above will pass.

Actually, the business of hard data and reliable knowledge is
absolutely tied up with entertaining the ETH, never mind
defending it; and that hypothesis is plainly the one that fuels
most of the interest in ufology. Lord, even Jerome thinks it's
"reasonable". And a few of us are curious to see a Top Ten list
of cases supportive of the ETH because we want to see how, and
with what degree of rigor, the "hard data" of such cases is
deployed by the best ETHers to support such a notion.

Perhaps I'm not alone in thinking this request is a bit like
sending in the beaters to force the pheasants into the air.
Pheasants fly slowly, which is why hoorays like to shoot them.
But it is a trifle frustrating when the pheasants refuse to fly
on the grounds that they've joined the National Ostriches'
Union, and say please sod off, not in our job description any
more.

There is absolutely no doubt there are better things to do than
defend the ETH. Laugh at it, for example. But Jerome's the one
who says he thinks it's reasonable.

If "speculation about the Greater Meaning of It All has to be a
distinctly secondary concern until we know a lot more than we
know now", then Jerome should cease and desist, from now until
the moment he feels sufficient knowledge has been put in
appropriate heaps, from such defenses of the ETH (and its
proponents) as he can bring himself to muster and, even better,
stop griping when the Great Unimpressed put the mockers on it.

best wishes
Pinecone D. Musclebeach
Well Hard






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 10

             The Ladybower 'Tornado Pilot' (Sheffield Incident)

From: Robert Moore <ENGIMA9@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:39:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:30:10 -0400
Subject: The Ladybower 'Tornado Pilot' (Sheffield Incident)


[Non-subscriber Post]

Dear UFO UpDates

On reading Max Burn's recent posting to this forum re the
"Sheffield Incident", I though some might like to see this
extract from a detailed three-part series regarding the "Howden
Moors Incident", which appearred in the UK UFO group magazine
BUFORA Bulletin. A version of this particular item was published
in Part "2" of this series (which appearred in Issue "6" of the
Bulletin).

This excerpt very clearly demonstrates that the so-called
"Ladybower Tornado pilot" story has long been accounted for in
rational - and sadly all too human - terms.

Regards,

Robert Moore

IUN.

--------------------------------

The Ladybower "Tornado Pilot".

Dr. David Clarke & Robert Moore

Mr. E.V (a trainee RAF aircraft propulsion mechanic) contacted
the police on the night of March 24, 1997, to report seeing a
man behaving suspiciously on the A57 "Snake Pass" road at
Ladybower near Sheffield. This was roughly one hour after the
various 999 calls to police reporting a "plane crash" on Howden
Moor.

E.V had been returning with a group of friends on a minibus from
an outdoor pursuits centre near Glossop at 11pm, which was
travelling across the Snake Pass towards Sheffield. When
crossing the Ladybower viaduct over the reservoir the bus was
flagged down by a man who was acting suspiciously. According to
E.V;

"[This man] spoke little English and was West Indian or Asian in
appearance, with short black hair and a round face. He did not
seem to know where he was and just said he wanted to get to
Sheffield. The guy was covered in fuel of some sort and from the
smell I thought it was paraffin or diesel, but since then I have
joined the RAF and I can say it was a smell like aviation fuel.
We didn't give the man a lift because the bus was full and we
didn't like the look of him, but I thought it was odd because
there were no parked cars anywhere near and it was a deserted
spot......"

When E.V returned home to Rotherham, his parents told him about
the search for the mystery plane on the Derbyshire moors, The
following morning (on the 25th March) E.V reported this incident
to South Yorkshire Police, but heard no more about it. At no
time did E.V connect this man with UFOs, aliens or Tornado
fighters shot down over the moors.

Almost a year later he received a letter from UFO researcher Max
Burns (who had obtained his home address from a copy of a log
belonging to South Yorkshire Police, provided by a
Sheffield-based ufologist). According to E.V, in the letter
Burns identified himself as "a journalist working for a national
organisation." After asking him to repeat his account of the
events Burns asked if he could use his testimony in a story he
was working on for a national newspaper (the Sunday tabloid The
News of the World).

Permission was granted, but according to E.V 's statement on May
12 "at no stage in any of this conversation did Max tell me he
was going to use what I told him in a story claiming I had seen
the co-pilot of a Tornado which had been shot down by a UFO.
Even when the subject of UFOs was aired in a later conversation
all Max would say was that "he did not disbelieve in ETs". A few
days later, E.V was contacted by a News of the World reporter
who asked him "if it would be all right for them to use the
story which Max had told them he had said."

E.V was subsequently contacted by David Clarke, who interviewed
him on two occassions (on May 11 and 12, 1998 respectively) and
also discussed this matter with his parents.

In the course of his interview E.V was appraised by Clarke of
the "type" of story the News Of The World were hoping to run,
which was going to using his name and testimony as evidence. He
was nothing short of horrified. He told Clarke that Burns had
said nothing about any claims about UFOs shooting down
Tornadoes, or RAF cover-ups. E.V stated; "I don't know anything
about that, all I told him were the facts I remembered from that
night, I don't believe he was a pilot for one minute."

Shortly after discussing this matter with David Clarke, E.V
phoned Max, withdrew permission for the story to go ahead, and
asked him not to use his name in connection with these claims as
it could put his career in jeopardy. In any event it transpired
that the News Of The World never used it. Furthermore, Burns
never sent E.V a copy of his report on the Dronfield/Howden
Moors event, and when Clarke read him extracts from it he could
not believe what he was hearing!

In the light of Max Burns' claims, David Clarke questioned him
about the clothes this man was wearing. To this question E.V.
replied; "They were just ordinary dark clothes. He was
definitely not wearing the sort of uniform associated with RAF
pilots. I would have recognised that uniform immediately "I
don't believe the man I saw was a pilot and if my name were to
go in a national newspaper associated with such a claim I could
get into serious trouble with my employers, the RAF."

Asked how he would react if anyone claimed he had been
"silenced" because he had "withdraw" his testimony, E.V
responded; " I haven't been silenced by anyone, I just don't
want my name connected with a story like this, and that is why I
intend to tell Max [Burns] not to involve me any further. I just
told him what I saw that night and that is all I know."

The statements concerning the "paraffin soaked man" made by E.V
to Clarke concurs with the statement E.V made to the police,
recorded in the South Yorkshire Police incident log of the
incident dated 25th March 1997. Clarke was allowed access to
this entry, which read as follows:

[Call logged 1808]... "just after 11pm last night he was a
passenger in a minibus which was travelling across the Snake
Pass back towards Sheffield. When crossing the viaduct over the
reservoir at Ladybower, they were flagged down by a man who was
walking towards Sheffield. The man said he needed to get to
Sheffield and wanted a lift. The minibus was so full it was
declined. There were no parked vehicles anywhere in the area.
The man smelled strongly of diesel. Said to be of eastern
extraction, Indian/Pakistani, and dressed in dark brown
clothing."

Initially, Clarke queried senior Peak Park Ranger Brian Jones
about this event, who remembered the incident straight away.
Details concerning a man covered in petrol or paraffin wandering
on the Snake Pass that night had in fact been reported to him by
the police the next morning. He stated "I do remember the
incident as it was reported to the Peak Park Ranger service the
next morning. I understand it was a failed suicide attempt. It
was someone who had driven out to the country and poured petrol
or some other inflammable liquid over himself. But he had not
gone through with the suicide. It had been reported to South
Yorkshire Police who had passed it to Derbyshire to deal with.
It's the sort of thing that happens occasionally in a remote
area like this."

Clarke then contacted Derbyshire Police Inspector Andy Howard,
the duty police inspector at Bakewell, Derbyshire (who was on
duty on the night of March 24). Inspector Howard confirmed the
incident had occurred as described by the Ranger, but due to its
sensitive nature no Press statement had been released at the
time.

David Clarke (in the course of his job) reports on upwards of
50-100 suicides per year, often by the most gruesome of methods
- hanging, carbon monoxide poisoning and overdoses being the
three most common in his experience. Every one of these cases
obviously has to has to handled careful, considering the trauma
of the victim's families and friends.

Suicide by pouring petrol or flammable liquid over clothes and
then lighting the mixture is also unfortunately quite common,
with 2 or 3 deaths per year on average occurring in the
Sheffield area. It is a well known fact that potential suicides
often utilize isolated spots- like the Peak District - so as to
avoid any "rescue" attempts.

When a suicide is successful, police reveal details to the
Press, a public inquest is held and is reported by journalists.
Where a suicide is attempted but not successful, police (as a
matter of policy) withhold details from the Press so as not to
add to the trauma and suffering of the victim who is often
disturbed or mentally ill, which was the case with the March
24th Ladybower Viaduct incident.





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 10

                   Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!

From: Max Burns <alienHype@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:52:04 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:21:36 -0400
Subject: Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!


>Subj: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!
>Date: 4/9/99 5:43:01 PM GMT Daylight Time
>From: Gloria Dixon <rbx32@dial.pipex.com>
>To: AlienHype@aol.com

I have deleted certain people from Gloria's original post as
obviously I do not wish to correspond with them they may recieve
the post via fwd... And no doubt they will.

I have also enhaced the distribution of this non private post
you have circulated As it seem's you did not want this to be a
private communication, for reasons which are no doubt your own

So you cannot obviously moan about myself making this public
knowledge?

Gloria Dixon wrote...

Max

>I would like to respond to your comments in a recent UpDates
>posting that was forwarded to me. I will not be responding
>again and I do not wish to receive anything further in my email
>box about this or your lecture for BUFORA.

Well, I am sorry Gloria but if you had sent myself a private
post I would have accepted your statement as it stands you must
allow me the chance to reply. due to the circulation list you
have submitted this to.

Why you could not just have sent me a private post I do not
know. But I suppose you have your reasons.

>If I attend your lecture I shall make up my own mind as no
>doubt everyone will. This situation has indeed resulted in 'a
>drawing of the line in the sand', your words Max,. Anyway my
>comments follow to the relevant part of your posting.

It is a shame that you have taken this stance as I have always
listened to what you have had to say, you must also admit that
you have also asked myself some quite personal and pertinent
questions during our phone conversations. to which you yourself
have said that I was always very candid with you in my
response's to your questions. A statement you made yourself.=E2=80=A6

However we move forward with our various choices

Gloria wrote in response to my mail.=E2=80=A6

>>About eight weeks ago I had a long conversation with Gloria by
>>telephone regarding various issues, including my investigation
>>into the Sheffield Incident.

>It was not about eight weeks ago, it was four weeks ago 11th March
>1999 that you contacted me.

Eight weeks four weeks what's the difference you still did not
supply me with the data after I asked you to omitting the
originator of the report's details. until you had cleared it
with the woman.

After I asked you on the phone to do so... And this was before
Dr Clark had involved himself in my personal life (re council
tax)

>>During the conversation she informed me that she had received
a >>report from a woman who wrote that on the 24th March 1997 at
>>approx. 22.00hrs GMT she heard a loud explosion and the sky
>>lit up with a red flash.

>No Max, I did not inform you that the woman HEARD a loud
>explosion. She SAW what she interpreted as an explosion and the
>sky did not light up with a RED flash. She said that she
>observed a very bright light twice the size of a star which
>appeared to flash in that part of the sky, rather like someone
>striking a match.. She was observing this from near Leeds in
>West Yorkshire looking south...

I would not know this as you chose not to supply the data to
myself even though you brought this up during the conversation
about Sheffield. I can only recollect as we had discussed on the
phone You must of thought that it may be relevant or you would
not have supplied the info which you gave me on the phone which
you supplied the text to Dr Clark & John Heponstall.=E2=80=A6

>She followed this telephoned report with a fax, a copy of which
>is with Dave Clarke as well as BUFORA investigator (at that
>time) John Heptonstall who followed this up.

>>Me ponders how many sonic events light up the sky with a red
>>flash? Please do not jump in with it was a Tornado igniting
>>its after burner as it would not light up the whole of the
>>sky. _Fact_

>No Max, this is not a fact at all, as she did not report the
>whole of the sky lighting up.

Must of been quite a flash to see it from near Leeds? Approx. 30
miles away as the crow flies? But as you would not send me the
report how do I know.

>>I asked Gloria if she could contact the women to ask if it
>>would be at all possible for me to contact the originator of
>>the letter so that I may question her about the report that
>>she filed.

>>I also asked Gloria if she could forward the report to me
>>omitting the details of the identity of the woman until she
>>had cleared it for me to speak with her.

>**Sorry Max, but I could not possibly give you confidential
>witness details and as far as I am concerned this would be
>witness intrusion.

Why did you not state this at the time? Why did you tell me the
info in the first place, if any other follow up from myself
would be redundant?

Did I not ask you to omit the persons personal details regarding
the report? There fore how would this be an intrusion of
witness. confidential details?

I also stated this in my email correspondence. Hmmmm

I also asked you to contact the woman, if I felt after reading
the file which you said you would send to me, that it needed
further investigation so that on the witness agreement I could
contact her direct. To which you did not send me the file. This
is correct is it not?

This is also before you were offended regarding my comment which
I made regarding Dr Clarks direct interference in a personal
matter of council tax arrears. which had nothing what so ever to
do with him and was no more or less than connected to a further
attempt to discredit myself and there fore my investigation into
the Sheffield case

(Re my comment keep your dog on a lead)

Something Dr Clark has now admitted to, to which you stated
yourself during our phone conversation was not on or nothing to
do with ufology.

>as John Heptonstall dealt with this at the time and
>furthermore, he had a problem getting a response from her. This
>means we do not intrude any further

Ohh Im sorry you did not discuss that with me on the phone, and
if that is the case why did you bother to tell me about this in
the first place?

>plus the fact that all the information about her sighting were
>recorded on the fax that I received from her. This fax
>certainly indicates that she was possibly observing part of the
>low flying military exercise that night.

Pure speculation on your part, but at least I know where you are
coming form

>I told you about this sighting as you were speaking with me
>about your investigation and I briefly mentioned it to you as
>it may have been relevant to this incident. Also just for the
>record I spoke with the lady concerned the other day and she
>does not wish to be contacted by anyone else,

But you stated earlier that it was John Heponstall who said that
he could not get a response from her.=E2=80=A6 Why did you choose to
speak with her the other day? You see that you are contradicting
yourself with the comment about further intrusion? Obviously not
for myself to contact her as you have allready stated that you
were not willing to allow me access to this potential witness
And surely she would have not been offended if I wrote her a
letter?

>as she has given BUFORA the relevant information regarding her
>sighting in her original fax. She has nothing else to add and
>two years on, this would be a problem anyway, because of
>inaccurate memory >retrieval , etc.

This is a reasonable comment to make but as Dr Clark has spoken
to a number of my witnesses two yrs after the incident and two
yrs after I had collected my witness statements this could also
be said about all the detrimental statements that have been made
by Dr Clark regarding my investigation into the incident..and
the subsequent interviews he has collated well after I had
interviewed my witnesses.

You see my point?

But in some respects your comments are also incorrect. As she
could detail her view of the occurrence which from her vantage
point which would not have changed and would allow for analysis
of, if the area where she witnessed this occurrence was, in the
same area to which I believe that my version of the events
occurred, which would dismiss the possibility that this was the
after burner igniting from a tornado jet as this would not be
visible from approx. 30 miles away as the crow flies.

You see my point?

Any pilots care to interject?

As well as other witnesses who reported an explosion and a red
flash in the sky, this would lead strongly to the possibility
that she has witnessed the explosion from a great distance.=E2=80=A6

You see my point?

Well I would not know that as you have decided to keep me out of
the loop

>>I have also E-mailed Gloria making the request again in
>>writing. Did she reply to this request?


> **This is absolutely correct Max. I did not and the reasons
>for that lie in your total lack of regard and total disrespect
>towards me because of your inflammatory comments made in a
>prior email from you to me with regard to Dave Clarke,

"What because I said "Keep your dog on a lead"

I have respect for you Gloria, I do not have respect for people
you are supporting, in light of the actions of Dr Clark.
Involving himself in my personal life. (re council Tax) To which
you yourself said that this what not on during our phone
conversations which you know full well you said.=E2=80=A6

Have you now changed your stance?

>The fact that you apologised to me in this email in addition to
>asking for information on the sighting report we had received
>was unacceptable to me.

Gloria, do you mean that it was un acceptable that one of your
friends had behaved in a manner un becoming of a Dr. I only
pointed out the facts of the matter, as you and Dr Clark are
such good friends. =E2=80=A6 and the "keep your dog on a lead
statement was not even directed at yourself" A fact that you
know. and I challenge you if you are in dis agreement to that
statement, to re post the E_Mail which you are referring to.

Which clearly shows that I was not in any way insulting to
yourself?

>The damage had been done and this why you
>have had no response from me.

What? You had four weeks to respond to my request even if it was
with a no you cannot have the data, it is still well before I
posted my factual post to Updates

>Why should I respond to you, Max,

Because you are/were the director of investigations for BUFORA,
and I had made a request for data that you yourself had informed
myself about. Which was well before your horror at my bringing
this to the attention of the Updates list, Re: the personal
choices you had made in light of your decision not to supply
myself with the data as requested. In light of the decisions you
have made in the proffering support for David Clark, in light of
your Choice to resign as director of investigations for the
BUFORA ORG. because the BUFORA group are allowing myself to
speak.

I only want to present my case and simply allow the membership
to decide for themselves I also agree that Dr Clark is allowed
and entitled to his own opinions, regarding his investigation
into the Sheffield Incident.

Although I disagree with his conclusions, why is it so important
to have myself prevented from presenting the other side of the
coin?

Details of which during our many telephone conversations you
agree that were obviously present with regard to Dr Clark's
findings that just seem to have been glossed over, to the point
that you would resign your position as director of
investigations. Something I myself am sad to see, and I urge you
to re consider the choices you have made

>when you write Email and post more inflamatory comments on the
>internet?**

Gloria, I was only reporting the facts as I see them in response
to Mr Wooton's posting to the updates mailing list. which you
must agree are correct? With exception to the details from the
woman as discussed earlier in this post. regarding her sighting
of something which she felt warranted communication with you in
the first place...about the night of the 24th March 1997

As you would not supply me any further details. I could only
recall it as we discussed it as I did not record or write down
notes from our telephone conversation as you said you would
forward the details to myself.


>>This is really strange behaviour from the Director of
>>Investigations, as I had made a request for data which she
>>informed myself about orally.

>**There is nothing strange about my behaviour at all. Actually
>I think it is rather appropriate under the circumstances. In
>any case, I NEVER pass on witness details to anyone, who is not
>a BUFORA investigator and even then this has to be with the
>full permission of the witness.**

Ok if you say so

>>She has not supplied it or even replied to my mail. Why she
>>even bothered to tell me about this I don't know. But at least
>>I was willing to follow up on the report with an
>>investigation.

>**I bothered to tell you about it, Max, because during your
>phone call you were talking about your investigation into the
>(Howden Moors case)

Insert by Max Burns the Sheffield Incident

>Howden Moors Case (see above) and, as I also said above, this
>was followed up by myself and John Heptonstall at the time of
>the sighting the day after the incident.**

Hmmmmm

>To reiterate, I do not wish to receive any more contact about
>any of this. I have absolutely had enough of it all. These
>issues have led to my resignation from the council of BUFORA,
>an organisation of which I have been a member for 9 years and a
>council member for four years. I am deeply angry by all of this
>and your attacks upon me via UpDates are inaccurate and
>inflamatory.

My comments were not attacks on you but merely making comment on
the facts as we had discussed above, obviously if by your
actions in your proffering of support for Dr Clark you felt the
need to resign from your position. you have lost your
objectivity in this matter.

You yourself stated to myself that I had made and raised some
important and serious questions regarding the incident, and the
alleged true facts regarding the incident However as you said in
a post to myself we must agree to disagree. and I urge you to
withdraw your resignation from the BUFORA ORG.as it would still
be a great loss to the group.

And I still remain most sincerley

Max Burns







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 10

                           Re: Earth's Other Moon

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:27:47 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:27:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Earth's Other Moon


Hi everyone.

Two years ago York University astronomers Dr. Kim Innanen and
Dr. Paul Wiegert working with a colleague in Finland discovered
that Earth has a second moon. Our second moon, initially known
as Asteroid 3753 (1986TO), has now been named Cruithne.

Cruithne is about 3 miles (5 kilometers) in size and its unusual
"horseshoe" shaped orbit around the Earth (see web site below
for details) brings it as close to us as 40 times the Earth-Moon
(with a large "M") distance.

http://www.asteroid.yorku.ca/

Little else is known about this moon (with a small "m") but with
continued observations from York University, we should soon be
able to say whether it rotates or not and if it has permanent
dark and light sides.  Skye Turell may yet be vindicated and his
original statements regarding the moon (Skye used a small "m")
may true out to be prophetic.

Also, since this post is for UFO UpDates, I would like to say
that York University astronomers have _not_ yet ruled out that
Cruithne is artificial - a huge UFO in space near the Earth.

Since Koch's and Kyborg's version of Betty Hill's 'star map' did
not have any lines connecting Cruithne to other asteriods and
planets in our solar system, this is strong evidence to me that
their version is wrong.  ;o)

Nick Balaskas







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 10

                Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:15:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:37:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion


>>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:45:30 -0400

>>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 07:05:11 -0600
>>>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>>>To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

>>>Silver Veil/Femptophoton Technology and faster than light
>>>registration is available for viewing at:

>>>uc.berkeley.org.ca.us

>>>Begin here:

>http://www.physics.berkeley.edu/research

>>If anyone cares to look.

>>I looked. It's a big site, with links to all kinds of physics
>>research being done at Berkeley. I poked around for 20 minutes
>>or so, and couldn't find the references you mentioned. A web
>>search for "femptophoton" came up empty. One for "Silver Veil"
>>retrieved your own interview with Peter Gersten, but nothing
>>else.

>>Would you give us a specific web page to look at -- the one
>>where the reference actually occurs?

>It is a big site.

>go here:

>http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/center-for-beam-physics.html

Very interesting page here about some advanced issues in beam
physics.

No femptophotons. Lots of talk about femtoseconds, defined as
follows:

"A femtosecond is a millionth of a billionth (or one
quadrillionth) of a second. To appreciate the brevity of such an
increment, consider that a femtosecond is to one econd what one
second is to 30 million years. At room temperature, almost
everything in nature vibrates to a femtosecond beat. If you want
to study this motion, you need femtosecond pulses of light."

This webpage describes proposed experiments to produce x-ray
pulses whose length is measured in femotseconds. This requires
techniques not yet developed: "Producing femtosecond x-ray
pulses will be a tricky proposition in itself. Detecting these
pulses could be even trickier. There are special cameras that
can detect picosecond x-rays, but nothing for the femtosecond
regime."

There's nothing about speeds faster than light. At the end,
there's a bit about high-energy acceleration:

"Sessler's TBA would feature two parallel beams of electrons.
One would be an intense but low-energy beam (maybe 3000 amps at
10 MeV) that could be used either for an amplifier FEL or for a
relativistic klystron, devices capable of extracting powerful
microwaves from relativistic electrons. These microwave beams
would then be used to accelerate the second electron beam to
energies of trillions of electron volts.

"'The steep accelerating gradient of the TBA would make it 10
times more energetic than accelerators of the same length are
now,' says Sessler."

I take this to mean very rapid acceleration, or acceleration to
a state of great energy. But not acceleration to speeds faster
than light.

Greg Sandow







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 10

                     * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-9-99

From: Rense E-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:08:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:10:50 -0400
Subject: * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-9-99



           * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *

                 The Week Ahead
              4-11-99 thru 4-17-99

   Guests, Announcements, Week's Top Stories
               From sightings.com

Jeff Rense E-News is distributed exclusively by
Free Subscription.


              * From Jeff's Desk *

Note - In lieu of my usual few comments, I am
running a new piece from the Rense Files located
in DataPages on our sightings.com homepage. Rip
has provided some remarkable essays...some humorous,
some poignant...and always worth the read.   From
'Looking For The Boys' (Laurel and Hardy) and 'Lois
Lane' to the 'Language Czar' rulings...Rense Files
always delivers.  Enjoy.


       Language Czar Issues Latest Rulings
                 By Rip Rense

    Hear ye, hear ye - as they love to say in
Washington, D.C. Here comes another in a series
of warnings from the Language Czar, enemy of
debris-speak - the language wreckage that passes
for communication in the final moments of the
20th Century.
    Attention, English-speakers: Citizens are
advised against using the following cliches,
phrases, and "buzz-words," which are infecting
and muddling clear and dignified communication.
They are rated 'T' (trite), 'A' (asinine), 'P'
(pretentious), and 'CP' (criminally prosecutable,
with recommended minimum punishment of one day
of imposed silence.)

1. "Raise the bar" - Everybody's constantly
yacking about raising the bar - in politics,
entertainment, medical research, etc. What does
this mean? Trying harder? Okay, then let's just.
. .try harder. There's no bar out there.  Life
isn't a track meet. This stems from a
predominant mentality that characterizes
everything as a game. Wars are handicapped like
sports events, complete with correspondents
calling the action on incoming bombs right from
the target zones!  Oh, here comes another one,
Tom!  Whoa--that was a big one!  President
Clinton's near-removal from office was covered
like the World Series. The Washington Senators
vs. The Capitol Clintons. There is an underlying
naivete and cynicism to all of this. Of course,
naivete and cynicism are currently the defining
aspects of the American character. T, P.

     For the Czar's rulings on more pop cliches
     and inanities including:  "It's About",
     "World Class", "Level the playing field",
     "Closure" and many others, go to:
  http://www.sightings.com/excursions/rip/cz3.htm



                * TOP STORIES *

   Just a few of last week's most intriguing!
            http://www.sightings.com

Editors note: This week the news stories are ALL
so important, we're including more of the titles
instead of excerpts. In going over the stories for
inclusion, there are just too many that are essential
reading to even *begin* to include them. They're
there at the site for you.

   * US Tells Russia To Stay Out of Kosovo
     Conflict...

   * Russian Missiles On Red Alert? - Russia
     Says 'Could' Send Troops

   * Yugoslavia Will Join Russia, Belarus In
     Political Union

   * Human Engineered Flying Triangles - Many
     Names, Hidden Programs

   * Cyberwar - Email Bombs From Yugoslav
     Conflict Hit US Mailboxes

   * Y2K - 40% Big Businesses Have Already Had
     Glitches

   * Amazon Rainforest Disappearing Faster Than
     Once Thought

   * Russian Warships Set Sail 'On Maneuvers'

   * Out Of Public Eye Clinton Said Violent,
     Profane, Ruthless

   * Cmdr. Donaldson's New Report On TWA 800
     Missile Shootdown - READ!

   * Terminator Technology - 'Damaged Goods'
     From The Gene Giants

   * New Zealand Rents Drive Thousands Into
     Poverty - TB Cases Grow

   * EU Prepares To Ban Clothes Dyes Due To
     Cancer Risk

   * Bio Weapons Accident Caused Two Major
     Epidemics In China

   * 19 Bodies Of US Soldiers Said Transported
     Home From Yugoslavia

   * Human Brain Implants And The Work Of Jose
     Delgado

   * Oil Spills 100 Times More Harmful To Fish
     Than Thought

   * Armed Russian Volunteers Now In Kosovo To
     Fight NATO

   * The Dark Side Of UFOs

   * Family Sees Amazing UFOs Over LA -
     Sightings Continue To Pour In

   * Strange UFO Light Show Over Unionville,
     Michigan

   * High Court Gives Police Broad New Powers In
     Car Searches

   * Radioactive Weapons Used By US/NATO In
     Kosovo

   * The Mad Hatter Of Pennsylvania Avenue

   * It's Official - Cell Phones DO Scramble
     Your Brains

   * Did A UFO Cause The New Kimberly School
     Roof To Collapse?

   * Man Arrested And Charged In 'Melissa' Virus
     Case

   * Learning Might 'Protect the Brain' From
     Alzheimer's And Dementia

   * Korea Clones Cow With Eye Toward Mass
     Production

   * Strange UFOs Appearing Over US - Cylinders
     To Glowing Lights

   * Wave Of UFO Sightings Around Sudbury,
     Ontario, Canada

Read these fascinating articles and dozens more
at www.sightings.com All stories are saved and
archived in our huge DataPages section


          * CONTEST/EDITOR'S CORNER *

Win a free transcript of your choice of any that
are listed -- here's how.

Each week, we have scores of emails asking about
local stations. Well, being over here, and not
over at Sightings, I don't have that list (which
changes frequently) so I always feel badly that I
can't produce the ready answers.

I do know, though, that there are not enough.
That's because most radio stations these days
are owned by huge conglomerates. They prefer to
air the shows they own. (Yes, it's the land of
the big bucks in radio, too.) However, they DO
listen to the public. Numbers count.

I just received this note from Jeff (yes, he sent
it privately to me but you should know):

   > Just found out that we are the fourth most
   > popular broadcast.com show behind Art,
   > Dr. Laura, and Rush.

   > This is great news.  Getting there...

When we first got involved with Jeff, James Neff
(his webmaster) after 4 years of knowing him,
gave insight to his deep respect by describing
Jeff as "able to lift 25 times his own weight."
Well, he does. And he's managed to overcome a
punitive system to FOURTH??!! With no big bucks
backing!!

Those of you who have been asking about stations
in your area, may I make a suggestion?

Be proactive with us. Grab the local phone book,
dial the radio stations in your area and ask to
speak to the Program Director. Then tell him you
want the Jeff Rense - Sightings show on. Give him
the web site. Tell him that Jeff Rense's show
has a 20 SHARE Arbtitron rating. (That's one
of those attractive numbers that count! The
broadcast.com rating is certainly impressive as
well.)

For each Program Director's name, radio station
name & phone number or email that you email back,
(mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net?Subject=RadioEntry)
we'll put one entry into a drawing for a free
transcript. On May 1st we'll have the drawing.
The winner can choose any transcript we have
available.

Live in a small town? Just want to do more?
Search for a web radio listing and do email.
Each one counts as an entry.

Let's get this important show to people in the
mainstream. They need and deserve it as well.


                   ---<+>---

            * THIS WEEK'S GUESTS *
             4-11-99 thru 4-17-99

(Please note Jeff's Guest schedule can change
due to late breaking stories, etc)

SUN 4-11
     Arthur Horn: Humanity's ET Origins
     Frank Joseph: Synchronicity And You

MON 4-12
     Steven Mehler: Ancient Egypt Revelations
     Joseph Bergeron: RenseWorld Tour

TUE 4-13
     Dr. Bruce Goldberg: Time Travelers
     Steven Myers: Pyramid A Water Pump?

WED 4-14
     Michael Lindemann: Weekly UFO/ET Update
     Dr. J.S. Chiappalone, MD: The Countdown Continues...

THU 4-15
     Dr. Louis Turi: Nostradamus Divine
         Astrology Readings

FRI 4-16
     Brad Steiger: A Walk On The Paranormal
         Side

SAT 4-17
     David John Oates Reverse Speech Show:
         The discoverer of RS does reversals
         live on the air!

-------------------------
P41, Hidden Mysteries of the Pyramid
  "What you are about to read may surprise some,
offend many and create disbelief among the rest,
but what you are about to read is fact that has
resulted from an actual expedition into the great
secret and forbidden chamber..."

http://www.immunotex.com/pyramid/
-------------------------

It's time.
http://www.immunotex.com/prepare-now/

-------------------------

Get PAID to surf the net.
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=AMR609

-------------------------

            *** PROGRAM INFORMATION ***

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        service,
mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net?Subject=Advertising

Sightings.com info/email center
http://www.sightings.com/1.mail/infocenter.html

Jeff Rense Y2K RESOURCE CENTER
http://www.sightings.com/y2kresource/y2k1r.html

--------------------------
Share with your friends!
   Please feel free to forward this issue of the
   Jeff Rense Weekly E-Newsletter to any and all
   who are interested... as long as it is forwarded
   in its entirety and not modified in any fashion
   without permission. Thank you!
-------------------------
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--------------------------

Jeff Rense Weekly E-News is independently
produced by ImmunoTex in cooperation with Jeff
Rense. The material and views expressed herein
do not necessarily reflect those of Jeff Rense,
sightings.com, or the Jeff Rense - Sightings
Radio Program.

--------------------------

" Messages received from Higher Intelligences
warn of the cataclysms and conflicts that are
about to erupt on Earth. It is clear that the
walls of our old world and our old ways are about
to be torn down.
           - Brad and Sherry Steiger, "Starborn"







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 10

               Deborah Lindemann of CNI News On Compuserve UFO

From: Eldon Garlock <eg2@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:25:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:07:26 -0400
Subject: Deborah Lindemann of CNI News On Compuserve UFO


Countdown to Year 2000: The Compuserve UFO forum newsletter

Hello Compuserve member,

First, a special announcement. At the exact time of the start of
the Deborah Lindemann conference last week, Compuserve decide to
have a server problem and several forums experienced connections
problems, including the UFO forum. Deborah was kind enough to
reschedule for April 15th, 1999.

Deborah Lindemann and her husband Michael are two of the most
respected names in UFOlogy. Their CNI Newsletter is one of the
best in the business, you won't want to miss this conference.
And as noted below, the UFO forum has opened up the conference
to all AOL members and Internet users. Everyone is welcome.

              **********  Meet DEBORAH LINDEMANN  **********

  Thursday, April 15, 10:00 pm EDT, 9:00 CDT, 8:00 pm MDT, 7:00 pm PDT

Conference will be held in the UFO forum "Special Guests"
conference room 18. To reach the UFO forum, GO UFO. Or from the
Internet or AOL, point your web browser to
"http://go.compuserve.com/UFO" and click on the "Chat" button.
Non-compuserve members can attend the conference as guests of
the
UFO forum by using the above web address.

In other forum news:

The "Alex Heard/APOCALYSE" section with guest Alex Heard,
executive editor or "Wired" magazine, is hot and heavy into the
discussion of CSETI and Steven Greer. Stop in and offer your
opinion.

Coming up in May will be a special "All UK/All UFO" weekend of
conferences live from the UK featuring the top names in UFOlogy
from the UK. Watch the UFO section 4 "UK/UFO Weekend" message
board for exact dates and times.

                      *******************************

                            Deborah Lindemann/CNI:

Close encounters with unidentified flying objects and claims of
contact with "alien" beings are among the most widely reported
anomalous phenomena in the world today. Deborah Lindemann, a
Certified, Registered Clinical Hypnotherapist agrees.

Deborah and her husband Michael are the administrators of CNI
News, Contact with Non-human Intelligence. CNI News presents
up-to-the-minute information and historical perspective on UFO
events, claims of human-alien contact, space exploration and
related subjects. The organization also offers reflections on
the cultural and political impacts of contact with other life in
the universe. (the CNI News web site is located at
http://www.cninews.com/)

Even while operating CNI News, Deborah continues to pursue her
professional practice as a hypnotherapist. She graduated in 1991
from the L. & P. School of Professional Hypnotherapy in Garden
Grove, California, a state accredited and approved school in
secondary education.

Deborah has received training and diplomas in numerous
therapeutic areas of clinical hypnotherapy, including Behavior
Modification, Ericksonian, Past Life Therapy, Transactional
Analysis and Gestalt. She is a member of the American Board of
Hypnotherapy.

She maintains a private hypnotherapy practice in Fort Collins,
Colorado, with specific interest and focus on working with
individuals who feel they have had contact experiences.

Deborah has been active in the public lecture and conference
appearance area since 1983, including radio talk show host and
television producer, as well as author of several publications
and articles. She is currently working on a new book on the
subject of abduction.

Learn more about Deborah Lindemann at:

http://www.cninews.com/CNI_Deborah.html

    (this message may be reposted on any Compuserve forum, the Internet,
    America Online, e-mail mailing lists, along major US and Canadian
    highways, bathroom doors, on the sides of busses and taxi-cabs,
    dropped from airplanes, handed out at major sporting events, on
    government buildings, family reunions, backs of cereal boxes and
    at any gathering of three or more people.)








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 10

                   Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!

From: Ralf Zeigermann <kag15@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:28:25 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:39:05 -0400
Subject: Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!


Hello all,

>From: Max Burns <alienHype@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:52:04 EDT
>Subject: Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!
>To: Updates@globalserve.net

>I have deleted certain people from Gloria's original post as
>obviously I do not wish to correspond with them they may recieve
>the post via fwd... And no doubt they will.

>I have also enhaced the distribution of this non private post
>you have circulated As it seem's you did not want this to be a
>private communication, for reasons which are no doubt your own

>So you cannot obviously moan about myself making this public
>knowledge?

>Gloria Dixon wrote...

Does this really belong on the UpDates list?

 [Actually Ralf, on reflection, yes it does. Interested
  parties gain insight - the disinterested have the
  'Delete' key option --ebk]

At least I am sick and tired of it. Max, can't you wash your
dirty linen somewhere else?

 [Where else do you suggest, Ralf? Where else on the planet
  could these revealing discussions take place? --ebk]

Cheers,

Ralf





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 10

                        Re: Max Burns BUFORA Lecture

From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:28:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:32:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Max Burns BUFORA Lecture

>From: Stephen Gamble <el82@dial.pipex.com>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Max Burns Lecture
>Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:54:40 +0100

It's nice to see BUFORAs chairman actually responding to
something.

In this case it has taken almost 18 months of BUFORA stupidity
over the Max Burns case to jolt them into action. In that time
they have lost most of their best people because of it and are
due to lose more.

>Possibly as a result of some of Max's postings, people are under
>the impression that BUFORA is championing Max's cause.
>This is not true.

But it is true - simply on the grounds that they are giving a
platform to someone who is making statements about deaths which
never happened etc etc ad nauseum. A BUFORA Council member
recently told David Clarke they would willingly have mass
murderers on their lecture platform if they thought it explained
anything. Go figure!

>Max says that he has alternative explanations to Dave Clarke for
>what happened at Howden Moor. BUFORA is providing him with an
>opportunity to present his data.

But Max has been unable to answer _any_ questions put to him on
this list and elsehwere, about this 'alternative' evidence.

>However this is in addition, not in preference, to any
>presentation that Dave may or may not give.  Like any speaker,
>Max will be subject to questions from the audience and if his
>data is lacking, no doubt he will receive a hard time.

No speaker _ever_ receives a hard time at a BUFORA lecture,
unless you count polite applause as being intellectually
stretching.

>Any impression anybody has got from Max or anybodyelse that
>BUFORA 'supports' his work is wrong, see point 1 below.

See above.

>We hoped that Dave would come and put his side of the case in
>the near future then people will be able to make their own minds
>up. We have carried at least one article by Dave Clarke on this
>case in the BUFORA Bulletin.

BUFORA Council just have not taken notice of how this case has
progressed. Their sole intention is to provide entertainment at
any cost. the cost in this case being truth about the case and
their reputation. They should all read Dave Clarke's posts to
this list again - particularly his 'final statement' on the
matter. If a so-called professional organisation is prepared to
support this charade - even by allowing its sole protagonist a
platform - then ufology in the UK has redefined the term
'nadir'.

>The position is very clear on this :
>1. BUFORA does not express a corporate view on the nature of
>UFOs

A corporate stance expressing a critical distance from unproven
and unprovable allegations, libel and allegation of false
criminality would have kept it out of this and many previous
messes. With BUFORA cheap entertainment always wins out over
rationality and evidence.

>2. That unless otherwise stated, speakers express their own
>views and not the views of BUFORA or its officers. Indeed, given
>point 1, speakers can never express the corporate view of
>BUFORA.

Hence the loonies they attract. With no critical or contextual
backdrop BUFORA is the ufological equivalent of Speaker's Corner
at Hyde Park. Any pretence at being a 'scientific' or
'professional' organisation is subsumed by the cry of snake oil
barkers.

>3. That one of BUFORA's aims is "To encourage and promote
>unbiased scientific investigation and research into Unidentified
>Flying Object phenomena".  To that aim all sides of every
>argument need to be heard and subject to rigourous questioning.
>If there are defects in any of the methodology then these need
>to be highlighted.

Even when the speaker is making allegations of unproved deaths
at the hands of UFOs Steve?

Allegations which he cannot support?

Allegations which may lead the South Yorkshire coroner to take
legal action for witholding evidence about a death.

We're not just talking about run of the mill UFO stuff here
Steve, we're talking about very serious allegations.

If any listers have relatives in any of the armed forces I'm
sure you would be alarmed by stories of this type.

Unless - and this is the key point - they were backed up with
names and details.

And this is the nub of the matter.

Were Max able to supply BUFORA with the facts about this alleged
crash and alleged death - even in secret, before his lecture -
this would at least demonstrate some substance to his tale.

He cannot, for the simple reason that neither crash nor death
took place. BUFORA's critical powers, morals and ethics eem to
have deserted them entirely at the expense of some muddled idea
of 'free speech' and a desire to entertain.

>4. That BUFORA does not condone the use of its platform by any
>speaker to libel/defame anybody, nor is the BUFORA platform a
>place for the settling of old scores.

But that's what will happen.

BUFORA has always been a platform for the settling of old
scores.

The internal politics of just why certain members of Council are
determined to make fools of themselves over the Max Burns issue
are deep and stretch back over 15 years and numerous
resignations.

This is exactly why leading ufologists such as Jenny Randles and
Dave Clarke (among many others) have left BUFORA.

>5. BUFORA does not condone things like illegal entry to premises
>or release of witness information against the wishes of the
>witness.  Speakers can be challenged on these issues during
>question time.

Exactly.

Yet they are giving a platform to someone who has released
witness information expressly against his wishes.

But breaking their code of practice is ok because the speaker
might get challenged during question time.

Some sanction!

If a BUFORA member broke their code of practice, several tedious
meetings would be convened before the miscreant was hounded out
of the organisation.

Paradox is one word for this.

Hypocrisy is a better one.

The fact remains that only due to _massive_ pressure from
within and without the organisation have BUFORA even
deemed it necessary to make a statement at all.

Some listers may believe that politics and ufology don't mix.

Many believe that they are one and the same.

The politics of reality.

If we don't fight tooth and nail over this particular issue 'The
Sheffield Incident' is going to be elevated as a 'classic case'.

Which it is.

But not for the reasons that either Max or his sad BUFORA
apologists think.

Happy Trails

Andy





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   Apr > Apr 10

                Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 02:31:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:30:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion


>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:38:51 -0600
>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

>>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:45:30 -0400

>>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 07:05:11 -0600
>>>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>>>To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion

>>>Silver Veil/Femptophoton Technology and faster than light
>>>registration is available for viewing at:

>>>uc.berkeley.org.ca.us

>>>Begin here:

>>http://www.physics.berkeley.edu/research

>>>If anyone cares to look.

>>I looked. It's a big site, with links to all kinds of physics
>>research being done at Berkeley. I poked around for 20 minutes
>>or so, and couldn't find the references you mentioned. A web
>>search for "femptophoton" came up empty. One for "Silver Veil"
>>retrieved your own interview with Peter Gersten, but nothing
>>else.

>>Would you give us a specific web page to look at -- the one
>>where the reference actually occurs?

>It is a big site.

>go here:

>http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/center-for-beam-physics.html

Dear Greg and Robert:

I visited the site and found no "femtophotons" either.

What I DID find was femtoseconds, some very tiny fractions of
seconds. At least that is a valid and commonly used
scientific/technological term

Femtophotons sound like syllable salad to me, since
photons are in theory indivisible,  especially by
so many orders of magnitude.

As for "silver veils",  that is so vague as to invite any
interpretation whatever.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

=  =  =  =

UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote:

>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:38:51 -0600
>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion
>
>>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:45:30 -0400
>
>>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 07:05:11 -0600
>>>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>>>To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: Silver Veils, Technobabble, And Delusion
>
>>>Silver Veil/Femptophoton Technology and faster than light
>>>registration is available for viewing at:
>
>>>uc.berkeley.org.ca.us
>
>>>Begin here:
>
>>http://www.physics.berkeley.edu/research
>
>>>If anyone cares to look.
>
>>I looked. It's a big site, with links to all kinds of physics
>>research being done at Berkeley. I poked around for 20 minutes
>>or so, and couldn't find the references you mentioned. A web
>>search for "femptophoton" came up empty. One for "Silver Veil"
>>retrieved your own interview with Peter Gersten, but nothing
>>else.
>
>>Would you give us a specific web page to look at -- the one
>>where the reference actually occurs?
>
>It is a big site.
>
>go here:
>
>http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/center-for-beam-physics.html
>
>
>
>-- sincerely,
>
>
>Robert A.M.Stephens
>NASA Documentation Program
>Stillwater Mills-Aerospace
>KSC-PIB/shuttle/MSF
>406-745-3818
>sti3818@montana.com
>http://members.iquest.net/~wubi/behold/
>http://www.nasa.gov/index.html
>http://198.116.116.10/gallery/arts/samples/.html





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   Apr > Apr 10

                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #298

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 07:09:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:46:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #298


Apology to MW #298 (For April 10, 1999)

What's new with John Ford?  Is he closer to trial?  So, when's
he allowed to express his denial? What are his chances; does he
pretend (?) that freedom can happen for him, once again? Is he
despondent? Is he depressed? What does he miss as his freedom's
oppressed? Is he despairing? Is he tormented -- writhing and
chafing his unearned internment?  What does he think of while
buried in prison? How does he manage this hell of derision? How
does he govern the feelings he has for folks that betrayed him,
or treated him bad? What are his thoughts on the lack of concern
of his own damned community that's shunned him in turn? What are
his options? What's his prerogative? His _right_ to a TRIAL is a
sad interrogative!

Walking the _streets_ are those far worse than him! Released,
and at large, they are MONSTERS, my friend! But John is locked
up like a serial fiend, when, in TRUTH, he's done _nothing_ but
question and dream! He's scorned for his courage of strident
conviction! He's jailed for reasons concocted from fiction! He
lives a perdition of slow rot to please all the ones that make
out if he's brought to his knees!  He lives his debasement to
further the ends of the demons that profit from what _they_
pretend.  He's tied up and muffled to further the cause of
political ambitions that should give us _all_ pause.  Forgotten
and lonely he sits in his cell, thinking (quite rightly) he's
gone straight to hell.

What's the damn hold up? What was his crime? Who was it
_injured_ for John doing time? What are the reasons he's
suffered these years? Why don't they try him?

Isn't it _queer_?

How do they figure to hold him in jail, or NOT have a trial, and
NOT hear his tale?  What of John's lawyer? What was his take?
How much of John's property paid bills that were faked? _Where_
are John's assets, what of his pension, how long should he
suffer the man's foul detention?  _Where_ is the justice?
_Where's_ the fair play; where has the *fairness* departed I
say? Why can't he speak; why can't he talk -- why can't he tell
us his crime is a crock? What is so secret they lock him away
with the key gone misplaced as is done every day? When will he
get all the rights that he *has* for being _American_, I hasten
to add!

<recovering from righteous sneer>

I'm thinking of you, John; I'm in my back yard. I'm looking at
Venus, and stars that shine, hard. The wind's in my face, but my
freedom's a fake; with you in your jail, my freedom's at stake.
It's all washed away by the whim of a man who handles our lives
with the heaviest hands. Step on his toes in a search for some
equity, and suffer the slings and his arrow's inequity. Make a
demand for respect you be shown, and be thrown to the foot of
the man's jealous throne! Ask for just treatment -- to be kept
well informed, and be found _surely_ outcast, shunned, and then
scorned!

When is your trial? Shall you be heard? Or will they just mock
you, and keep you interred? May you, fates willing, secure a
release, and slip from their bonds -- free at last, and at
peace.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

How much longer, people. Remember -- it's _you_ in there...
Without a trial? I thought this was America? <sneering out the
door...>

Restore John Ford!


--
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more.
Consider Matter, Mind & Movement.
See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration.
Take a ride in the Teleporter.

Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
<Updated 2 April>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.






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   Apr > Apr 10

                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:10:46 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:48:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:52:56 EDT
>Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:40:47 -0300
>>Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:04:04 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

><snip>

>>With an approximate time of 2.5 to 4 seconds from top of
>>atmosphere to ground level for a meteor's travel, how can anyone
>>in that field even consider meteors? How does something like
>>this get in a SETI journal?

>Hi, Don:

>Where did you got these numbers?  A meteor begins to glow about
>115 kms until about 50 kms, and if it is large enough then drops
>at free fall to the Earth's surface.  Larger meteoroids can
>continue to glow to lower altitudes that small ones.  Meteoroid
>speeds upon _entering_ the atmosphere range from 11 to 74
>kms/sec depending upon whether the Earth catches up to the
>meteoroid in its orbit or it hits us head on.

>So, 2.5 to 4 seconds might be a good length of time for some
>visible meteors, others have a longer "dark" flight.  Also, the
>hypothesis obviously refers to a meteor travelling in a near
>horizontal path.  A bright, widely photographed fireball like
>this back in the early 1970s is known to have had a zenith to
>horizon time of 1 minute.

>Also, it is now believed that very bright meteor fireballs of
>this type are not related to meteor showers, believed to come
>from comets, but have their origins in the asteroid belt as
>rocky objects.

>Clear skies,

>Bob Young


Hi Bob,

I picked a number right in the middle for the sake of argument
46 kps or 28 mps. I used 60 miles for the approx. top of the
atmosphere where you are using about 70 miles.

I ignored bolides they because they slice through the upper
atmosphere at about 60 miles or so; much higher than Arnold's
objects at 6-7,000 feet.

In any event for the writer of the original article, to
attribute Arnold's sighting to meteors was amatuerish and
uninformed at best.

Don





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   Apr > Apr 10

                           Re: Earth's Other Moon

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:10:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:37:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Earth's Other Moon


>Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:27:47 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Earth's Other Moon

>Hi everyone.

>Two years ago York University astronomers Dr. Kim Innanen and
>Dr. Paul Wiegert working with a colleague in Finland discovered
>that Earth has a second moon. Our second moon, initially known
>as Asteroid 3753 (1986TO), has now been named Cruithne.

>Cruithne is about 3 miles (5 kilometers) in size and its unusual
>"horseshoe" shaped orbit around the Earth (see web site below
>for details) brings it as close to us as 40 times the Earth-Moon
>(with a large "M") distance.

>http://www.asteroid.yorku.ca/

>Little else is known about this moon (with a small "m") but with
>continued observations from York University, we should soon be
>able to say whether it rotates or not and if it has permanent
>dark and light sides.  Skye Turell may yet be vindicated and his
>original statements regarding the moon (Skye used a small "m")
>may true out to be prophetic.

>Also, since this post is for UFO UpDates, I would like to say
>that York University astronomers have _not_ yet ruled out that
>Cruithne is artificial - a huge UFO in space near the Earth.

>Since Koch's and Kyborg's version of Betty Hill's 'star map' did
>not have any lines connecting Cruithne to other asteriods and
>planets in our solar system, this is strong evidence to me that
>their version is wrong.  ;o)

>Nick Balaskas

Dear Nick:

Frankly, I never heard of this novel object until you brought it
up!

The odds of it keeping the same face toward the sun, in
perpetuity, while it makes u-turns in space seem remote in the
extreme. They do to me at least!

Nevertheless, if there is anything to this new lane changing
object, which makes about-faces as it orbits the Sun (in
defiance of gravity  i.e. avoiding the Earth) then I am
surprised that there hasn't been any evident press coverage!

If such an object exists, I'm sure we would all like to learn
more about it. I recommend the link which Nick has provided as a
starting point.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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   Apr > Apr 10

             UFORBRazil & UFORMilitary Added To UFOR List Group

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:55:32 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:16:40 -0400
Subject: UFORBRazil & UFORMilitary Added To UFOR List Group


A list with addressing the Brazilian UFO research and enthusiast
community and another in a similar vein addressing the Military
(from all countries) has been activated.

UFORSouthAmerica will address the Hispanic Speaking Countries in
South America, UFORCarribean will address the former Guyanas,
the Bermuda Islands, The Bahamas and the rest of the Caribbean
(including, at least for now, Cuba, the Dominican Republic and
Puerto Rico)

They will follow the same format as the UFOR General list and
will probably share most articles.

We used to have almost 200 hundred .mil addresses in UFOR (also
about 250 NASA.gov), but an apparent change in policy caused all
of these addresses to be desubscribed (many resubcribed
privately).






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                 [canufo] New Historical Case from the Yukon

From: Martin Jasek <mjjasek@yknet.yk.ca>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:36:27 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:52:12 -0400
Subject: [canufo] New Historical Case from the Yukon


Hello Everyone

Thought this may be of interest.

It was documented by a mineral claims surveyor in the Yukon in
his work diary.

A copy of the diary was obtained recently from the files of an
Engineering firm in Whitehorse.

A really nice read.

Martin


http://www.ufobc.org/yukon/closeup.htm







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                   UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:35:22 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:10:03 -0400
Subject: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::


From: Blue Resonant Human <density4@cts.com>

Response to Lammer et al.
By: John B. Alexander, Ph.D.

In response to the various comments, I am submitting this
commentary on Military Abductions (MILABs).  As with the first
response, and contrary to assertions by Helmut Lammer, this
commentary addresses only his MILABs, not all abduction cases.
Interestingly, most of the respondents who have been whining on
the Internet do not even address the question at hand.  That is
human, not alien, interventions.

It should be noted that Victoria was the sole author of the
article titled What Would Freud Say? while I provided
information about satellite systems.  Contrary to the comments
about the timing of the article, it was written in 1996, within
a month of Lammer's first piece in the MUFON Journal.  At that
time it was sent to the editor, Dennis Stacy.  In a phone
conversation with him, Stacy stated there were more important
issues to cover.  He was subsequently relieved as the editor of
that journal. From the April issue it is clear that MUFON has
little interest in discussing both sides of this controversial
non-UFO issue.  Instead, they have chosen to become the champion
of unsubstantiated, barely tangentially related nonsense.

While rejected by MUFON, Victoria's article has been circulated
privately for the past three years.  After a recent meeting in
Laughlin, Nevada, and upon his request, Victoria sent the
article to Peter Gersten, who posted it on CAUS.  This actually
provided a wider audience from that of the moribund MUFON, which
has been in steady decline for several years.  It is only
through coincidence that the article came out in proximity to
the nonsensical book being published by Lammer.

Again, Lammer has displayed both a lack of understanding of
technical knowledge and the ability to competently analyze
information.  Unfortunately, he is not alone.  This topic is
quite important and is covered in some detail in my forthcoming
book, Future War, Non-Lethal Weapons in Twenty-First-Century
Warfare (St. Martin's Press, May 1999).  However, given his
current position in the Austrian Space Research Institute, this
obvious lapse is very disconcerting.

While triangulation technologies have existed for some
considerable time, the devices had a common characteristic.
They were relatively large.  Until very recently, they were
certainly larger than could be surreptitiously subcutaneously
hidden in a person's body. They would be too large to go
undetected by X-ray or MRI examinations. By 1990, the
state-of-the-art was a device about 11mm long and 2 mm in
diameter.  This was a passive transponder without an internal
power source.  While it could be read by external devices, they
had to be very close, similar to readers that are currently used
in stores.  Greater distances can be achieved with higher power,
or very narrow bandwidth.  That means the device would have to
be larger to house internal power or, once externally
interrogated the information rate very low.  It would also have
to broadcast above the background noise at the designated
frequency. Today, most of the miniaturized location technology
is designed to work at a range of feet, not miles.  The
tradeoffs between, power, frequency, antenna systems, and size
make the commonly accepted notion of MILABs highly implausible.
Since it is claimed that these military abductions have been
taking place for quite a period of time, it must be assumed that
older technology was in use. It is noted that Lammer's response
to Victoria's article posted by CAUS does not reference a source
earlier than 1996.  Yet he wants us to believe these nearly
nanoscale, mystical capabilities have been available for
decades.  They have not.

Attempts to locate persons who are free to move about at
substantial distances infer that the interception capability is
quite mobile.  Therefore, it would be logical to assume
space-based systems, or airborne platforms, are involved.  As
previously noted, the space-based systems were not available
when the incidents began.  However, his article does mention
that "MILAB victims are harassed by dark, unmarked helicopters"
that are seen in the area.  It seems incongruent that abductions
must take place discretely, yet helicopters are sent to openly
harass them.

Even if this mystical and unattained technology were available,
the organizational aspects are illogical.  If the three-car
system proposed by Lammer were used by the offenders, the logic
still fails. Assuming there are a minimum of two people per car,
and we know that it takes five shifts to man any given position,
we are led to assume that 30 people are assigned to continuously
track each MILAB.  Of course, that doesn't count supervisors and
administrative personnel.  Remember the helicopters.  Where did
they come from?  Who flew them?  Who conducted the medical
tests? Who maintained these yet-to-be- identified bases?  The
list of involved personnel goes on and on.  Since it is claimed
that these illegal operations have been conducted for many
years, and since military personnel rotate on a frequent basis,
there would have to be thousands, if not tens of thousands, of
people involved over time.  Where are they? When you add up all
of the people who say they are MILAB victims, the number of
people involved in this operation would be non-trivial.  At a
time when military strength is cut to the bone, are we to
believe this mission-without-purpose takes precedence over other
critical functions?  With all of the questionable projects that
have been exposed, why have we not heard from one whistleblower
about MILAB?  The reason is because it does not exist, nor has
it ever existed.

It must also be noted that not one implanted transmitter has
been recovered.  According to the MILAB theory proposed,
location and extraction of such a device would be a simple
matter.  None of the "alien implant" work, such as that done by
Roger Leir, has found anything remotely associated with a human
designed transmitter. The systems described in Lammer's article
for use in monitoring criminals are quite large when compared
with some unknown subcutaneous version and are generally tracked
by fixed sources.  This is hardly what the "abductees" have
described. Where are these devices?

Had such technology been available (and it was not), then the
analogy between abductees and Qadaffi, Noriega, and Saddam
Hussein would be apropos.  None of these people rose to
prominence out of nowhere.  They were all identified on their
ascendancy, and at a time when there was physical access to
them.  If available, triangulation transponders could have been
implanted long before these foreign leaders became problematic.

How current is the analogy of MILABs versus critical national
interests?  On 31 March 1999 three American soldiers were
captured near the Yugoslavian border in Macedonia.  The incident
is making news around the world.  It is noted that their exact
location at this time can not be determined.  Are we to assume
that some =FCber-secret agency believed it was more important to
use this highly advanced technology on unsuspecting
civilians-who are of no special interest except to themselves
and their friends-than in support of our national security.
That logic is certainly seriously flawed.

Lammer's knowledge of "black programs" and how they function is
equally lacking.  His argument appears to be that if large
amounts of money were available, some agency, or even a renegade
subelement thereof, would choose to spend money on tracking
innocent people.  Here there are two key issues to address.
First of all, just because a project is "black" doesn't mean
there is no oversight.  While fewer people have access to the
program, in this day and age, dollars are watched quite closely
in every project.  His notion of the money available is off by
at least an order of magnitude.  Lammer states that SDI was
funded at "tens of billions of US dollars."  The reality is that
at its zenith, SDI was a $5 billion dollar program and that has
shrunk dramatically over the years.  When I proposed a
politically sensitive project to Lt. General Jim Abrahamson,
then director of SDI, he turned me down.  He stated that if he
were caught funding that venture, Congress would assume SDI had
too much money and would make severe cuts.  In fact, SDI was cut
$1 billion that year.  What I had proposed was nowhere near as
risky as illegally kidnapping civilians and physically
assaulting them.

The second major problem in his thinking is that such a project
makes no sense to anyone-except for a few conspiracy theorists.
There is no logical purpose in tracking the people who make
these claims.  They do not appear to have any significant
attributes that would make them worthy of special study. There
is no indication that they are extremely intelligent, nor is
their physical prowess of note.  No Nobel laureate or person of
publicly acclaimed accomplishments has ever claimed to be a
MILAB.  It therefore remains a mystery as to why these
relatively nondescript people are reportedly chosen to be
unwilling MILAB participants.

There are, however, many well-known medical conditions that
describe these signs and symptoms. These observed or perceived
contentions maintain that some person, or group of persons, is
after them are indeed found amongst 10 million persons per year
who are seen by clinicians who include social workers, clinical
psychologists, neurologists, general practitioners and other
primary care practitioners, and sometime by psychiatrists.  The
vast majority of these persons (over 90%) function very well
within activities of daily life. Outside of a narrow, highly
circumscribed paranoid delusion, concern, or worry-that while
not real-these delusions are not disabling.  Most common are
beliefs of other entities, voices, bedroom-related visions, and
hypnagogic experiences.  Often they are accompanied over time by
exaggerated notions of self-importance. Clinical estimates are
that over 100 million of these persons are alive today
worldwide. They are found in all countries and all cultures.
Generally speaking, the demography of these persons does not
match that of a normal population.  These observations are not
new.  They have been diagnosed, or more likely merely observed,
for more than a century. It is a much more simplistic answer
than the bizarre scenario being portrayed by Lammer and his
supporters.  Where is Occam when you need him?

The reason that no agency would engage in such a preposterous
program is the potential for repercussions versus value added.
We can find no value added by unauthorized, illegal monitoring
of individuals who are self-proclaimed MILABs.  After all, a
volunteer program would net better results and at no risk.  In
this day and age, any agency caught conducting such outrageous
experiments as has been postulated would risk both severe
personal and organizational consequences.  My educated guess is
that the organization would be disbanded and individuals sent to
jail. Again, a simple cost-benefit analysis completely destroys
the logic of conducting such an illegal project.

Both Lammer and Wilson draw analogies between the MILAB victims
and unwitting participants in prior unwise Government
experiments.  It cannot be denied that the system has been
abused in the past and that individual's rights were violated.
However, in each of the cases listed, a reason for the
experiments could be made.  In Tuskegee doctors wanted to
determine how syphilis would progress if left untreated.  Most,
but not all, participants in MKULTRA were volunteers who signed
statements to that effect.  Forgotten in the clamor over those
experiments is the grave concern that had been generated by our
POWs, who showed signs of "brain washing," when they returned
from North Korean camps. The radiation experiments also were
conducted in a time of extreme anxiety about the effects of
exposure and were based on the concerns for our very national
survival.  I am not making excuses or apologies for these
experiments.  However, in each case, the designers conducted a
risk-benefits analysis and chose to proceed.  The proposed MILAB
projects fail that simple test of common sense.  There is just
no reason to conduct them. However, since there is no statute of
limitations on kidnapping, I also highly recommend that any
person who experiences an abduction at the hands of anyone,
including purported government agents, report them to multiple
law enforcement agencies.  That will insure that no single
agency can quash the report.  While immediacy would be
preferred, old cases also can be filed.

Surprisingly, Victoria has been attacked for both taking
information out of context, and using quotes that are quite
long.  The intent of quotes was to show the words were accurate.
The reason the quotes were extensive was to insure they placed
the situation in context.  Again, this is an example of
internally inconsistent logic by the critics.

Finally, the MILAB concoction fails every known test of
knowledge, proof, and common sense. Not one scintilla of
concrete evidence exists to support the hypothesis. Lammer's
arguments fail in technology, political science, military
science, government, budget and finance, organizational
sociology, and psychology/psychiatry.  No one supporting the
MILAB hypothesis can explain why critical resources, if they
existed, would be employed for this nonsense, versus some issue
of vital national importance.  At the end of the day, all we are
left with is abstruse, totally unsubstantiated conspiracy
theory.  But, that does sell well in some circles.






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   Apr > Apr 10

                          Quantum Entaglemment.....

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:31:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:25:33 -0400
Subject: Quantum Entaglemment.....


>From roy.hale@virgin.net
Date: 10/4/99
Time: 16:20
Subject: Quantum Entanglement?

Dear Colleagues,

I received this rather interesting article concerning the "New"
principle of Quantum Entanglement.

If this works as it suggests then surely this must lead to a
fundamental re-think on the communication aspects of space
research into the search for ET?

Could it be that applying the below principle' may well open the
long awaited jump Man has been looking for to have an out-reach
or a simplified code of communication with other Universal
Intelligence's?

Read on..

QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT DETHRONES UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE WITH HUGE
REAL-WORLD IMPLICATIONS

A stunning revision of quantum theory has effectively replaced
Heisenberg�s uncertainty principle with the concept of quantum
entanglement.

According to Heisenberg, writing in the early years of this
century, both the momentum and position of a particle cannot be
known at the same time, because the process of measuring the
position changes the particle�s momentum.

Previously, only �thought experiments� were available to test
the theory, but this has changed, and the changes have huge
implications in areas such as communications.

The change in theory has huge implications for communications at
levels so deep they are just beginning to be realised and
imagined.

The indeterminacy of reality at the quantum (tiny) level has
been proved by the famous �two slit� experiment which proves
that light is both a wave and a particle, depending on whether
or not an effort is being made to measure it.

Even single particles, sent through the slits over a period of
hours, will set up a pattern that proves that they pass through
both slits at the same time and interfere with themselves.
Quantum theory has therefore said that a particle splits into
two �ghosts� of itself, one going through each slit.

It wasn�t possible to confirm this because measuring the actual
position of the particles altered their motion, just as
Heisenberg had predicted.

Now it has become clear that the apparent �ghosting� is not due
to some mysterious and inaccessible aspect of reality, but to an
actual, physical effect that can be understood and exploited in
all sorts of incredible �quantum machines,� especially devices
that can enable instantaneous communication, possibly over
infinite distances with no time lag.

In 1997, physicist Nicolas Gisin and colleagues at the
University of Geneva in Switzerland used particles of light that
had been entangled by linking their spins to engage in simple
but instantaneous communication over a distance of 7 miles.

When the spin of one entangled particle was again changed after
the two had been sent down separate fiber-optic cables, the
other particle instantaneously made the same movement. There is
no theoretical limit to the distance at which this could be
accomplished, and the small size of individual photons implies
that incredibly detailed and instant communications could
eventually be accomplished.

More recently, Gerhard Rempe and colleagues at the University of
Konstanz in Germany have effectively measured the actual motion
of the particles in the �two slit� experiment without
interfering with it.

Incredibly, what was revealed was that the process of
measurement STILL ended the interference pattern, even though it
did not transmit enough energy to the particles to change their
momentum. What this proves is that particles are linked in such
a way that one moves when the other is pushed.

In effect, they act as a single object even though they exist in
different places. �Loss of interference is always due to
entanglement,� said physicist Yu Shi at the University of
Cambridge.

So now the question becomes, just how deep is this linking and
how extensively can it be exploited for real-world gain?

For example, is everything linked? If the big bang happened,
then there was a time prior that all particles now existing in
the universe were packed tightly together. Does the �ghost� of
this linkage still haunt the universe, and can it be exploited
to extend man�s vision to the infinite?

If so, it could be an explanation of why SETI (The Search for
Extraterrestrial Intelligence) being conducted on
radiotelescopes around the world is not finding any signals.
When such a rich and speedy communications process exists, why
use radio?

Thanks to Nature and The New Scientist. Further reading �Origin
of quantum mechanical complementarily probed by a �which-way�
experiment in an atom interferometer,� S. Durr, T. Nonn, G.
Rempe, Nature vol. 395, p. 33. �An End to Uncertainty,� Mark
Buchanan, The New Scientist 6 March 1999, �Light�s spooky
connections set distance record,� Mark Buchanan, The New
Scientist, 28 June 1997.





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                       Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:34:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:54:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:42:00 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Were Arnold UFOs Fireballs?


>It was actually posted to the SETI e-mail list. So far, I am the
>only person on that list to deal with it (I posted an enhanced
>version of my earlier message for UpDates).

>I got a nice message off-list from a gentleman at NIDS and a
>reply on-list from someone else that may have been (it was a
>little ambiguous) a complaint that I was just whining about the
>nasty scientists, and why was I posting this to a microwave SETI
>list? (sigh)

>I sent a brief comment about the intent being to critique the
>methodology represented by the message and pointed out that both
>SETI and UFO researchers can and should be united by an interest
>in non-human intelligence.

Perhaps you could forward my response to that list, inasmuch as
I'm not on the SETI list. I posted my response (ANOTHER FAILED
EXPLANATION) the day the article was posted on this list, but
have seen no comments on what I posted.

Anyway, if you haven't dumped it already (my response was on
April 8) simply copy and forward.

If you have dumped it, contact me directly and I'll send it
again.






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                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:46:00 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:55:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>From: Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:44:20 -0400
>Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:38:38 -0400
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 99 09:35:11 PDT

>>a fine spray of irrelevant blather all over the hated Jerome
>>Clark when I am not remotely the issue Brad is discussing here.

>Mmmm. Why do I have this persistent memory that Jerome's name
>did creep into the post to which Brad was responding? And why
>does the paragraph Jerome quotes happen to be one in which I was
>clarifying what my post was up to?

>"Hated". This is so inappropriate it isn't even an exaggeration.
>Ah! Of course, it is a joak.

>>There is a lot of naive and just
>>plain dumb writing about the ETH, but in science (and, ideally,
>>even in list exchanges) it is always the best arguments and
>>evidence that are at issue, not the worst.

>Such as our old friend Trans-en-Provence, and the Roswell
>imbroglio - to take a couple of Jerome's favorites. I should
>like to see the careful analyses of the psychosocial factors in
>those cases, by those who believe they have some ET connexion,
>or even some substance as anomalies.

Comments:  Sorry I can't help you because I believe the
first-hand witnesses who said what was found was foil-like foil,
balsa-like balsa wood, plastic-tape-like plastic tape, and
rubber-like rubber balloon sheeting.

>>given a position sufficiently at risk that it is reduced to
>>grasping at those human straws Klass and Menzel, Peter would
>>prefer for us to concentrate on the former.

>On Menzel (and Taves), I wrote: "Now, anyone may disagree with
>their interpretations and their use of the data, in some
>instances; but surely no one of good faith can disagree with
>their comments on numerous cases that are simply too vaguely
>reported to be meaningful of anything at all."
>
>So much for Jerome's good faith.

Comments:  The context of these remarks was that I presented two
surveys of American and worldwide UFOlogists in 1966 and 1981
which listed the best-evidence UFO cases.  Since most of these
ufologists believed in ETH as the best explanation of the UFO
phenomenon, these lists were therefore de facto best-evidence
ETH lists.

Only the very myopic could fail to grasp that reality, unless
Brookesmith wishes to contend that most ufologists in 1965 and
1979 (the dates of the actual polling) were actually PSH
advocates or some such.

Mark Cashman has already astutely argued that the best UFO
evidence is functionally the equivalent of the best ETH
evidence, if one examines the cases.

Skeptics have evaded these lists for decades, despite their
repeated demands for "ten best UFO cases" (etc.) and despite
knowing of the existence of at least one of the lists if not
both (in 1974 Philip Klass cited the Vallee list of 1966 for its
finding that the Socorro case was ranked number one but has
apparently avoided mentioning the Vallee poll ever since).

I also pointed out that the "anti-UFO" side represented by the
Condon Committee had failed to explain many of its UFO cases,
conveniently listed in the Condon Report Index under "Sightings,
unexplained."  Altogether I estimated that skeptics had failed
to explain and/or even discuss approximately 1/3 of all the
cases on these three best-evidence lists, Vallee, Condon, and
Story-Greenwell.

Brookesmith came back with the mention of the Menzel-Taves book
which in 1977 purported to explain all of the unexplained Condon
Committee cases.

Aside from the fact that their "interpretations and their use of
the data" were questionable (to which even Brookesmith seems to
allude), Menzel and Taves _completely_ignored_ about
_one-fourth_ of the unexplained UFO cases listed in the CR Index
under "Sightings, unexplained."

They simply addressed the 23 cases with Case Numbers and
_ignored_ most of the other 9 cases cited in the Condon Report
under "Sightings, unexplained," that did not happen to have
project case numbers (I think they addressed only one of these
unnumbered cases, one of the two Gemini 4 incidents, but it's
made up for by another one they overlooked, see next).

Apparently Menzel and Taves didn't want to go to all the effort
of actually reading the entire Condon Report.

If they had they might have noticed an important Astronomical
Instrument UFO Case that remained unexplained (CR pp. 777-781)
which was inadvertently omitted from the Index, and which
involved a UFO detected by an airglow scanning photometer at
Haleakala Observatory in Hawaii on Feb 11-12, 1966. That would
seem to have objective scientific content and should have been
of especial interest to an astronomer such as Menzel.

In short, Menzel and Taves completely ignored about 9 of the
approximately 32 unexplained UFO cases published in the Condon
Report (there are a few additional unexplained cases couched in
ambiguous language which evidently for that reason weren't
indexed as "unexplained").

I am not aware of any other skeptics who have addressed these
cases, let alone attempted to explain them.

It's hard to avoid agreeing with Jerry Clark's comment that the
cited skeptics are merely human strawmen, since the past 30-year
history of UFO skeptics seems to show that skeptics have no real
intention of ever proposing _Scientific_ (as opposed to Literary
Analytical) explanations for this short list of best UFO cases
that a huge Air Force-contract university investigation could
not explain.

Why not forego the pointless, factless jawboning on this list
and get down to the nitty-gritty of the actual cases, with
names, dates, times, places, angular elevations and directions,
and measurements?


>As for Uncle Phil, I merely remarked that he acknowledged that
>reconstructing the then 17-year-old RB-47 case, even with the
>help of the pilot, was problematic because of the passage of
>time. This is a matter of fact. Where is the straw?

Comments:  The implication of Brookesmith's remark is that the
RB-47 case is impossible to reconstruct.

Yet Uncle Phil found it was quite adequately documented for his
skeptical explanations, especially once McDonald located the
contemporaneous military records on the case from 1957.

Indeed Phil's in-depth investigations of the case certainly
constitute the greatest skeptical demolition of a UFO case in
history no doubt his crowning achievement, seemingly very
thorough and very convincing.

Unfortunately, his explanations are just flat wrong,
conclusively disproven.

Now that the flight track of the RB-47 has been accurately
reconstructed it has been proven to be accurate by the on-board
ELINT direction-finding which accurately painted the known
location of the Duncanville/Dallas air defense radar -- at
exactly the same time as it accurately painted the maneuvering
UFO's airborne radar signal, which thus provides the world's
_first_ real-time calibrated measurement of a microwave signal
from a UFO, _proven_ to be _accurate_ by the simultaneous
calibration against the known radar signal (Duncanville's).

This is exhaustively documented in my 30-page paper in The UFO
Encyclopedia, 2nd Edition, along with other massive evidence
conclusively refuting Uncle Phil's explanations (save that of
the brief meteor sighting during the incident).

I should think that if skeptics are truly seeking the scientific
truth they would be drawn to such powerful scientific evidence
for a highly maneuverable radar-emitting UFO whose movements and
microwave emissions were recorded by electronic instruments and
found to neatly correlate with visual observations and ground
radar tracking.

But it seems that the greater the scientific substance to a UFO
case, the less the interest in it by present-day skeptics,
especially of the PSH variety.





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   Apr > Apr 10

                               UFO Repetitions

From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet@chucara.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:54:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:38:00 -0400
Subject: UFO Repetitions


Hi,

Just wanted to inform you that an excellent, short, text by
George D. Fawcett, titled "UFO Repetitions, A Challenge to
Scientific Investigations" is now online at

http://www.chucara.com/dossiers/other/gdfawcett_ang.htm

Good day,


Jacques Poulet
Phone: (514) 913-0274

http://www.chucara.com/

Fortean Files CDROM   http://members.tripod.com/jpoulet/

CHUCARA
Box 61
La Prairie, Qc
Canada  J5R 3Y1





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                         EarthLights Site w/Webcam?

From: Stephen Miles Lewis <stephen.lewis@tsl.state.tx.us>
Date: 10 Apr 1999 12:49:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:14:37 -0400
Subject: EarthLights Site w/Webcam?


Howdy Listers,

Within the last couple of months someone posted a web address
for an earthlights research site which features a live webcam.
This is not the old Project Hesdalen site (to my knowledge).

I bookmarked it when I first found it but, since installing some
new computer equipment I've been unable to find that bookmarks
list (shazbot!) so I'd appreciate any help in relocating this
resource.

BTW, I've already tried looking thru the past posts as well as
using the Ufomind index searches but to no avail. <sigh>

Thanks in advance.

SMiles
please reply to...
mailto:elfis@io.com






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                   Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:05:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:29:28 -0400
Subject: Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!


>At least I am sick and tired of it. Max, can't you wash your
>dirty linen somewhere else?

> [Where else do you suggest, Ralf? Where else on the planet
>  could these revealing discussions take place? --ebk]

At this point I also must add my praise to Errol for providing
us with the invaluable forum in which we can all discuss, diss
others, and air our views.

My thanks to your for your tireless work Errol.

And Ralf if people do want to wash their dirty linen in public
we can at least get to see if they wear Calvin Klien smalls
<simply huge G>.

--

    In an infinite universe infinitely anything is possible.
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
            UFO page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/





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                   Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!

From: Ralf Zeigermann <kag15@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:29:09 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:31:57 -0400
Subject: Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!


Hello all,

>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates Subscribers":;
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!
>Date: Sat, Apr 10, 1999, 17:39

> [Where else do you suggest, Ralf? Where else on the planet
>   could these revealing discussions take place? --ebk]

Sigh ... I guess you're right, Errol.

"Revealing" - indeed!!!

Cheers,

Ralf

---

And now for a bit of advertising:

My 3-D Site:

A Bryce gallery, models, textures and materials to download,
Info about the German SF-series 'Raumpatrouille'.

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/terrace/kag15/





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                       Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:38:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:04:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


With the usual compliments from the usual Duke:


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:46:00 EDT
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>To: updates@globalserve.net


>Comments:  The context of these remarks was that I presented two
>surveys of American and worldwide UFOlogists in 1966 and 1981
>which listed the best-evidence UFO cases.  Since most of these
>ufologists believed in ETH as the best explanation of the UFO
>phenomenon, these lists were therefore de facto best-evidence
>ETH lists.

I would surmise that almost everyone understood that. At least,
it wasn't so hard for me to understand, so I imagine the rest of
the world got the drift even faster. What is your point?

>Only the very myopic could fail to grasp that reality, unless
>Brookesmith wishes to contend that most ufologists in 1965 and
>1979 (the dates of the actual polling) were actually PSH
>advocates or some such.

Er, no. Why should I? What makes you think I would, or should,
or could?

Laborious reiteration: the (boy) Bishop of
Canby-In-All-Its-Dimensions wanted to know what his name was
doing in a repsonse to a post responding to one by you, Brad. I
explained why. Now you explain what you were saying in your
post, which was, see above, hardly in doubt, even to the meanest
intelligence, or even Jerome Clark. What is this hall of
mirrors? I pinch myself; I invite the fairies from Purcell's
opera to pinch me; still it seems I am broad waking. Yet the
madness continues. It is all very strange.

>>As for Uncle Phil, I merely remarked that he acknowledged that
>>reconstructing the then 17-year-old RB-47 case, even with the
>>help of the pilot, was problematic because of the passage of
>>time. This is a matter of fact. Where is the straw?

>Comments:  The implication of Brookesmith's remark is that the
>RB-47 case is impossible to reconstruct.

No, that is crap; it is your inference, and an unfounded one,
not my implication. Obviously Jerome Clark (him again) [who
he?--Ed] isn't the only one who can't read around here, or does
so too fast for his own good. This results in missing joaks
about tolerance of ambiguity and, ah-so, getting glands in
uproar, or, in this instance, failing to remember (or read) what
was said inthe first place.

What is so difficult to follow here? Klass and the RB-47 pilot
both recognized that the passage of time made it difficult, not
"impossible", to reconstruct the events of 1954. When someone,
such as the distinguished Brad Sparks, re-investigates the case,
time continues to pass, and memory is not likely to become any
more reliable. This is, and was never meant to be more than, a
single illustration of a general truth, that the longer ago
something happened the harder it is to be sure one recalls, or
that someone else recalls, the events accurately.

I presently have no opinion about the virtues of Brad Sparks's
analysis of the RB-47 case, having read his UFO Encyclopedia
article but once, and not having compared it in detail with
Klass's analysis. From his performance in this latest post, no
one could accuse Sparks of any literary talent, whether creative
or critical, and I can see no reason to read his research report
in that light or judge it as such.

I did also remark previously that I hoped the comment I was
making wouldn't be misconstrued as impugning the integrity of
his analysis. Need I have bothered? As Sparks spent 17 years on
the RB-47 case, two options occur to me: (a) sometime in the
next 17 years what I was actually saying will dawn on Sparks,
and all will be well; or (b) someone so incapabable of following
two of three posts of simple English may not be entirely
reliable when it comes to analysing yet more detailed events.
But then kindness was never my strongest point.

>I should think that if skeptics are truly seeking the scientific
>truth they would be drawn to such powerful scientific evidence
>for a highly maneuverable radar-emitting UFO whose movements and
>microwave emissions were recorded by electronic instruments and
>found to neatly correlate with visual observations and ground
>radar tracking.

Do you have any indication yet that they are not so drawn?

What (I ask on behalf of those not privileged to have a copy of
the Clark Encyclopedia, or who are unfamiliar with the case)
makes you say the UFO _emitted_ microwave radiation, as opposed
to being passively detected by (microwave) radar?

>But it seems that the greater the scientific substance to a UFO
>case, the less the interest in it by present-day skeptics,
>especially of the PSH variety.

From dim memory of the case, I'd say there was a fairly narrow
band of maneuver for anyone of the PSH persuasion in the RB-47
affair; for example, the attitude of the crew members to UFO
phenomena _before_ their "encounter". Still, they could all have
been dyed-in-the-wool True Believers and an impartial analysis
could still demonstrate that they did encounter something
anomalous, and that their prior disposition was irrelevant.

A skeptic of the PSH variety might then find it "interesting"
that an anomalous, microwave-emitting airborne object should be
taken as evidence of some ET alien presence in Earth's
atmosphere. But that's a question that takes us back to where we
started - where is the direct evidence for the ETH, and what
cases support it, and why do those enamored of the ETH believe
they do?

A _mass_ of inexplicable cases, assuming in every case that the
facts really are all in hand, and the witnesses are not misled,
simply indicates a problem, to a scientist. In analogous
circumstances in everyday science, a researcher would then
devise experiments to explain the anomalies - either in the hope
of resolving them in accordance with accepted theory, or (grand
hope) to find and justify a new theoretical explanation. The Top
Ten ETH-Supporting Cases for which the more irritating of us
persist in asking may be regarded as the equivalent of those
experiments. There is, as far as I can see, no other way to
justify the ETH given the nature of the data - i.e.
observational, not empirical, results.

I still believe that, if Brad chose to see past the haze of his
hasty reactions, he and I actually have more to discuss than to
argue over. Time will well.

best wishes
Permutation D. Morphogenesis
Lamdah Field

PS: Time will also tell whether he will distinguish between this
List and PJ-47, whose members not privy to UpDates must be
increasingly bemused by his posts there.






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   Apr > Apr 11

                          Non-UK/USA UFO Magazines?

From: Philip Mantle - UFO <pmufo@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:17:56 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:47:46 -0400
Subject: Non-UK/USA UFO Magazines?


Dear colleagues,

Can anyone help supply me with an address list of UFO magzines
outside of the UK and USA. Any assistance would be greatly
appreciated. Please contact me direct at: pmufo@dial.pipex.com







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                 Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:26:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:26:38 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::

>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:35:22 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::

>From: Blue Resonant Human <density4@cts.com>

>Response to Lammer et al.
>By: John B. Alexander, Ph.D.

<snip>

>It should be noted that Victoria was the sole author of the
>article titled What Would Freud Say? while I provided
>information about satellite systems.  Contrary to the comments
>about the timing of the article, it was written in 1996, within
>a month of Lammer's first piece in the MUFON Journal.  At that
>time it was sent to the editor, Dennis Stacy.  In a phone
>conversation with him, Stacy stated there were more important
>issues to cover.  He was subsequently relieved as the editor of
>that journal.

What a load of unadulterated horsecrap!

I wasn't relieved as editor -- I quit. Something you would do on
principle in regard with Bob Bigelow's ignorant, idiotic, and
misguided forays into the paranormal (hey, let's buy a weird
ranch!), except that it pays you quite nicely. Nor did I have
the phone discussion you describe. Fact of the matter is that I
stuck my neck out a couple of times to publish articles by your
wife, Victoria. And this is the sort of acknowledgment and
thanks I get in return?

Thanks, but no thanks. Suck up to Bigelow all you want. I
frigging don't care. And when you know jack shit about anything
regarding UFOs, please let the rest of us ignorant SOBs know,
OK? Or is that asking too much?

Meanwhile, keep affixing those NIDS disclaimers to Roger K.
Leir's book, "The Aliens and the Scalpel." What a proud moment
(and waste of good money
on your part) that must have been!






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                        Re: EarthLights Site w/Webcam

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:43:03 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:16:30 -0400
Subject: Re: EarthLights Site w/Webcam


>Date: 10 Apr 1999 12:49:45 -0500
>From: Stephen Miles Lewis <stephen.lewis@tsl.state.tx.us>
>Subject: EarthLights Site w/Webcam?
>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>

>Howdy Listers,

>Within the last couple of months someone posted a web address
>for an earthlights research site which features a live webcam.
>This is not the old Project Hesdalen site (to my knowledge).

>I bookmarked it when I first found it but, since installing some
>new computer equipment I've been unable to find that bookmarks
>list (shazbot!) so I'd appreciate any help in relocating this
>resource.

>BTW, I've already tried looking thru the past posts as well as
>using the Ufomind index searches but to no avail. <sigh>

>Thanks in advance.


How about the page on the Longdendale Valley Lights in Britain?
They mention a webcam there:   http://www.hauntedvalley.com/

-Brian Cuthbertson






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              Re: IF Conference In NY 04-10-99 - A Velez Report

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 05:23:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:41:52 -0400
Subject: Re: IF Conference In NY 04-10-99 - A Velez Report


Hello All,

Just wanted to report that the IF conference was a complete
success. The speakers were all superb, there was an excellent
turnout, and a good time was had by all. Plus, the weather in
New York was nothing short of glorious the entire day.

It was such a gas for me to get to spend time with guys from our
UpDates list. (Errol you were sorely missed mi compadre!) I got
to spend a little time with Mark Cashman and Gary Alevy and a
host of other folks I have only known via e-mail. Mark asked
sharp/pointed questions of the speakers and the overall quality
of the questions (and responses) was as high as it could be. We
were blessed with an intelligent/thoughtful audience that helped
to bring the very best out of the invited guest speakers.
Without getting into specific detail, it was a most revealing
and informative conference event.

The surprizing and -unchallenged- 'hit' of the conference turned
out to be the new kid on the block, Carol Rainey! :) (She gave a
talk on the stormy relationship of UFOs/abductions, and the way
the media has historically handled the subject. As good as the
other better known speakers were, none rivaled the buzz that
Carols' presentation created. Folks were literally chattering
about it during the break afterwards. Kudos Carol. Like hitting
a home run off the first pitch in your first at bat in the major
leagues! <G>

On a personal note:

I can't begin to tell you how much respect and genuine affection
I feel for David Jacobs, Stan Freidman, Jerry Clark, and my
friend Budd Hopkins. Jerry and Stan both gave intelligent and
informative talks. They are intellectually honest guys and their
presence at our conference (especially Jerry Clark) brough a
needed balance to the offering. (Anyone who gets on Jerry or
Stans case about what they were doing at an abduction conference
is going to have to do it over my dead body! <G>) They were
great, and their contributions are what helped to make the
conference a success in terms of content.

David and Budd both gave excellent talks (I can understand why
Davids classes are so popular at Temple, the guy is bright,
funny, and very sharp. A terrific speaker and fun to listen to.)

Greg Sandow MC'd and moderated the conference with much aplomb
and his usual pure class. I think Greg could make a Saturday
night cockfight in the basement of the local bodega seem like a
first class society affair! He just has real presence, and
elevates anything he puts his hand to far above the mundane.
Greg asked all the right/hard questions during the panel
discussion and I can't think of anyone who would have done a
better or more professional job.

A lot of people have problems with Linda Cortile's case. That's
ok, I don't care about that. I just want to say that I'm proud
to call her my friend, and that there aren't too many out there
who could match her for her courage and gutsyness. She was a
terrific addition to the evening panel discussion. The crowd
loved her and so do I.

Sorry more of my cohorts from UFO UpDates couldn't
attend. Maybe next year! <G>

Peace,

John Velez, Webmaster, IF-AIC






________________________________________________
                                jvif@spacelab.net
INTRUDERS FOUNDATION/ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER
                            http://www.if-aic.com/
"Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________





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                 Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::

From: John Alexander <APOLLINAIR@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 01:52:42 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:22:23 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::


[Non-Subscriber Post]

>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:26:05 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::

>>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:35:22 -0400 (EDT)
>>From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::

>>From: Blue Resonant Human <density4@cts.com>

>>Response to Lammer et al.
>>By: John B. Alexander, Ph.D.

<snip>

>What a load of unadulterated horsecrap!

>I wasn't relieved as editor -- I quit.

<snip>

Possibly there is a minor problem with your knowledge of
English.

"Relieve: 3 . Release from a post or from performance of duty."
Merriam Webster Dictionary, Simon and Schuster 1974

"Relieve: 5 To free from a specific duty"
American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language

It does not specify whether one quit or is involuntarily
replaced. In fact, in the military relief from command takes
place every time a new officer assumes command of a unit. Guards
are relieved when the next guard shows up. So unless you are
still the editor of the MUFON Journal, you were relieved, even
if it was a voluntary departure on your part.

As for "sticking your neck out" for Victoria's articles, I
believe that both were published on their own merit. One was on
use of forensic methodology and the other original research on a
religious survey. Both papers addressed key UFO issues and have
been cited by others in subsequent works.

And for the other ranting, Prozac or Valium might help.






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                          Yet Another Face On Mars

From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:08:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:24:55 -0400
Subject: Yet Another Face On Mars


http://www.msss.com/education/happy_face/happy_face.html

http://www.kalmbach.com/astro/News/News/0399Happy.html


Kind regards,

Keith







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                     Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy

From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:28:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:31:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy


>Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 14:50:42 +0100
>From: Joaquim Fernandes <j.fernan@esoterica.pt>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Michael Wolf's Samples in Italy

>Its a pity that the foreign researchers who are interested in
>the Fatima could not read our six years indeep investigation on
>tha Fatima sanctuary archives, by Dr. Fina d'Armada and myself.
>Because its portuguese only a few can read it and the best prove
>of its scientific value is the fact the foreign editors of these
>"alien" stuff dont buy it because its exhaustive! Its amazing,
>isn't it?

>Well in these 460 pages of the original edition (Lisbon,
>Livraria Bertrand, 1982) we can "prove" all the psychological
>and physics effects of the the syndrome apparitions, both laic
>and religious.

 <snip>

>Please, research the correct and up-to-dated cross references.
>In Portugal we have them.
>Sincerely,
>Joaquim Fernandes

>University Fernando Pessoa
>Porto - Portugal>>

Thank you for this important information.

Is it possible to buy a copy of your book, and at what address?

Although it is in Portuguese, I would like very much to have it
because I have a friend in Paris who could read it for me.

Gildas Bourdais





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                          BWW Media Alert 19990411

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:25:41 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:26:02 -0400
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19990411



Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin
</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books
</A>

<A
HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/bufosweirdworld">Link
to Amazon.com
</A>

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to
http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

April 11, 1999

I got positive response to listing a few live events last time, so I'm going
to do it again.  I'm not sure that I will continue it here as a regular
feature.  I'll base the decision partially on continued feedback.  I'm also
including more websites and book links this time...I won't always have the
time to do that, whatever the feedback, but let me know what you think.

On to the listings: Times are generally Pacific.

LIVE EVENTS (lectures, etc.)

What: MUFON FIELD INVESTIGATOR TRAINING SEMINAR
When: Sunday APRIL 18, 1999, 10 A.M. til 5 P.M.
Where: The B'Hai Center, 170 Valencia Street (Between Duboce * McCoppin)
San Francisco, California
Who: JOE FIRMAGE (former CEO of
USWeb)(http://www.thewordistruth.org/login.cfm)
BOB WOOD http://www.ufomind.com/people/w/wood/ (Fund for UFO Research)
RYAN WOOD http://www.artbell.com/majestic.html (U.S. Government UFO Document
Researcher)
JOHN SHIRLEY, http://www.darkecho.com/JohnShirley/jsbiblio.html, (Author:
Silicon Embrace. Wetbones, Black Butterflies.Screenwriter, :The Crow.The
Specialist.Star Trek Deep Space 9, Lyricist: Blue Oyster Cult.)
Price: $30 for the day including lunch
Contact information: O, O & O
4 STRATHMOOR DRIVE
BERKELEY, CA 94705 Attn: MUFON SEMINAR
Or:
Call Ted Oliphant, Training Coordinator, Northern California MUFON
http://www.realityb.com/Articles/
@ (510) 288 3203

What: HEARTLAND ENCOUNTERS CONFERENCE
When: Sunday, April 25
Where: Parkway Chateau, 12304 75th Street, Kenosha, WI. I-94 & Highway 50
Who: LLOYD PYE (hairy bipeds, alternative history) (
<A
HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0966013433/bufosweirdworld">Every
thing You Know Is Wrong, Vol. 1, paperback)
</A>
DOLORES CANNON (ET channel) (
<A
HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1886940045/bufosweirdworld">The
Custodians: Beyond Abduction (paperback)
</A>
DIANDRA (channel)
CHRISTOPHER DUNN (Egyptian Technology) (
<A
HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1879181509/bufosweirdworld">The
Giza Power Plant: Technologies of Ancient Egypt (paperback)
</A>
JEFF SAINIO (MUFON photoanalyst, with Israeli UFO footage)
Cost: $20.00
Contact Information: E-mail (<A
HREF="mailto:thomreed60@yahoo.com">mailto:thomreed60@yahoo.com
</A>) or call Thom Reed312-661-9172, or call Bonnie Hughes at 847-838-0086.
Registration due before April 15.

RADIO

Eddie Middleton's very popular show in the South, Nightsearch, has a website
at
<A HREF="http://listen.to/nightsearch">http://listen.to/nightsearch<;/A>.
Unfortunately, no streaming audio.

Don Ecker, of UFO MAGAZINE, host STRANGE DAZE on the Liberty Works. It can be
heard on streaming Real Audio at
<A
HREF="http://www.broadcast.com/radio/talk/lwrn">http://www.broadcast.com/radio
/talk/lwrn
</A>.

ART BELL - DREAMLAND
Currently, the most popular talk show on this area.
<A HREF="http://www.artbell.com/">http://www.artbell.com/<;/A>.  Live
streaming audio (and video) available.

Sunday, April 11, 10:00 PM, DREAMLAND: Linda Howe & Ted Phillips (
<A
HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/mo/cptr/video.html">http://www.angelfire.com/mo
/cptr/video.html
</A>); Michael Sabom ; Replay of Ed Dames (
<A HREF="http://www.trv-psitech.com/">http://www.trv-psitech.com/<;/A>, remote
viewer)

JEFF RENSE - SIGHTINGS
Quite simply, this is my favorite show on which to appear.  Jeff is
well-versed on the topics, but likes to let the guests speak. You can hear
Real Audio of the show, and there are archives as well. Go to
<A HREF="http://www.sightings.com/">http://www.sightings.com/<;/A> for more
information. The show is on at 7:00 PM Pacific Monday through Saturday, and
8:00 PM Pacific on Sunday. You can hear it anywhere through your computer. To
subscribe to the Jeff Rense Weekly E-news (which includes articles), e-mail
(subject: Subscribe)
<A HREF="mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net">mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net</A>.

Sunday, April 11, 8:00 PM, Arthur Horn (
<A
HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/3931652319/bufosweirdworld">Human
ity's Extraterrestrial Origins (paperback)
</A>); Frank Joseph on synchronicity
Monday, April 12, 7:00 PM, Steve Mehler (ancient Egypt); Joseph Bergeron
(Rense World)
Tuesday, April 13, 7:00 PM, Dr. Bruce Goldberg (time travel); Steve Myers,
the Pharaoh's Pump (
<A HREF="http://www.thepump.com/">http://www.thepump.com/<;/A>)
Wednesday, April 14, 7:00 PM, Michael Lindemann:  Weekly UFO/ET Update
Thursday, April 15, 7:00 PM, Dr. Louis Turi on Nostradamus; Astrology
Friday, April 16, 7:00 PM, the incredibly prolific author Brad Steiger
Saturday April 17, 7:00 PM, David John Oates Reverse Speech Show

TELEVISION

A&E

Sunday, April 11, 11:00 AM, THE UNEXPLAINED: UFO CULTS (includes Heaven's
Gate)

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL

Thursday, April 15, 10:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT SERPENTS
Friday, April 16, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT SERPENTS
Saturday, April 17, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT SERPENTS
Next Thursday, April 22, 10:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: PARANORMAL SIGHTINGS
(psychic detectives)
Next Friday, April 23, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: PARANORMAL SIGHTINGS
(psychic detectives)

LIFETIME

THE LEARNING CHANNEL

Wednesday, April 14, 9:00 PM, HAUNTED LIGHTHOUSES
Thursday, April 15, 12:00 AM, HAUNTED LIGHTHOUSES

THE SCIENCE CHANNEL

The new schedule (since December 28, 1998) is weird programming for an hour
each at 3:00 AM, 11:00 AM,and 7:00 PM. Alternating shows are: INTO THE
UNKNOWN and ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE. They also run a Roswell
show now every other week (it's probably the same show every time) at 4:00 AM
and noon on Sundays.

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL

Tuesday, April 13, 11:00 AM , SIGHTINGS EPISODE #5061 (Argentinian UFO/plane
encounter; dog detects cancer; haunted internet; antigravity; UFO documents)
Wednesday, April 14, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS EPISODE #5062 (Heartland ghost; UFOs
and missile effects; face on Mars; crop circles; Nostradamus)
Thursday, April 15, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS EPISODE #4052 (government UFO
denials; psychics; bigfoot; Mexican UFOs; New Mexico's Highway 666)
Friday, April 16, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS EPISODE #5063 (Illinois haunting;
Russian ball-of-light/airplane encounter; angels)
Tuesday, April 20, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5064 (psychic detective;
Angel of Death; Ouija boards; "window" areas; haunting; sasquatch)
Wednesday, April 21, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5065 (UFOs; Edgar
Mitchell, astronaut; website; mutated frogs; school haunting; lake monster)
Thursday, April 22, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5066 (Ohio UFOs;
out-of-body-experiences; computers with souls; life on Io; nightclub
haunting; ancient structures)
Friday, April 23, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5067 (psychic detective; FOIA
website; predictions)
___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's
WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if there is
something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the
week before.
_____________________________







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   Apr > Apr 11

                        Re: Non-UK/USA UFO Magazines?

From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:49:33 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:46:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UK/USA UFO Magazines?


>Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:17:56 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle - UFO <pmufo@dial.pipex.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Non-UK/USA UFO Magazines?

>Dear colleagues,

>Can anyone help supply me with an address list of UFO magzines
>outside of the UK and USA. Any assistance would be greatly
>appreciated. Please contact me direct at: pmufo@dial.pipex.com

I will send a list by personal e-mail as the list might be a bit
too long to post here.


John Hayes

jhayes@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com
UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/
UFOICQ Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:-
        http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/






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                 Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::

From: John Alexander <APOLLINAIR@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:28:18 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:43:05 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::


[Non-subscriber Post]

Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:57:46 -0500
To: APOLLINAIR@aol.com
From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::


>And for the other ranting, Prozac or Valium might help.

>John A


You're quite right, John, they might!

I apologize for my boorish and completely uncalled for outburst.

I only met Mr. Bigelow once and found him quite likable. I have
never met you in person and have no reason to believe your
activities with NIDS are anything other than reasonable and
honorable.

For reasons that we need not go into here, I _have_ been under
extreme stress the past month, as it turns out, and violated one
of my own e-mail rules -- never hit "Send" on an e-mail outburst
until you've had time to sleep on it. My patience for perceived
criticism is not very good these days.

>As for "sticking your neck out" for Victoria's articles, I believe that
>both were published on their own merit.  One was on use of forensic
>methodology and the other original research on a religious survey.
>Both papers addressed key UFO issues and have been cited by others
>in subsequent works.

The articles were of course published on their merit. You, I,
and Victoria know that. Unfortunately, that still leaves 4,997
other MUFON Journal readers. Maybe my point will become clearer
if you look at the type of articles the Journal is publishing
nowadays. Clearly, articles on forensic methodology don't appear
to be in very high demand, do they? That's what I meant about
the extended neck.

And now that I've relieved myself, again, my apologies for the
immature outburst. I am sincerely sorry to have wasted
everyone's bandwidth with it.

Know where I can get some valium on a Sunday?

Dennis






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   Apr > Apr 11

                'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: Michel M.

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:17:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:17:05 -0400
Subject: 'Strange Days...Indeed' - Tonight: Michel M.




From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

On 'Strange Days... Indeed' tonight, Michel Deschamps.

Join co-host Jonn Kares and I on 'Strange Days...Indeed' as we
discuss Michel's UFO research and sightings in another hotbed
of UFO activity - Northern Ontario, Canada.


The program starts at 11:00pm EST on

1010 CFRB AM - 50,000 watts 'Clear-Channel'

6070khz Shortwave

and you can listen via Netshow Media Player at:

www.cfrb.com/


To call the program 'live', dial:

On-Air    416-872-1010
          1-800-561-CFRB [all over North America]
          *TALK [local mobiles]


ebk






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                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #298

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:21:52 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:33:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #298


>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 07:09:23 -0500
>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #298

I would not cut or snip nor paste this message.  Not one word
would I dare to remove.
I too share alfred's questioning.
Where can we contact John by Phone?
Is he totally locked away from outside
contact with any of us?

I have been laxed in asking this question.
The fault is mine.
John and I shared many a day in conversaton
on the phone and exchanged many many emails and
files.

I feel that they are attempting to break John's
spirit so that when he is finally set free, he
will fade quietly into the woodwork and not be
heard from again.

Will this work?  I cannot say for sure, but
knowing John like I do, I think after a time
of healing, John will rise from the ashes of
this "crime against humanity" as the Pheonix
from the ashes of it's own destruction.

I support John and the work he was doing.
One of his co-workers in the UFO uncoverup
on Long Island, Brian Levins, has totally
disappeared and I have been unable to find
him in the past two years.
Unfortuantely, I am left with but one
conclusion:  "Brian is probably dead!"
If anyone has any information to the
contrary, please advise me.

If Brian is dead, then not only John has
been removed from the UFO scene, but his
Right Hand, Brian also...

This gets worse and worse as it goes.
Any help in resolving this dilemma would
be welcomed by Myself, and probably by
Alfred also.

REgards, Mike

------------------------------------------------------------------

>Apology to MW #298 (For April 10, 1999)
>
>What's new with John Ford?  Is he closer to trial?  So, when's
>he allowed to express his denial? What are his chances; does he
>pretend (?) that freedom can happen for him, once again? Is he
>despondent? Is he depressed? What does he miss as his freedom's
>oppressed? Is he despairing? Is he tormented -- writhing and
>chafing his unearned internment?  What does he think of while
>buried in prison? How does he manage this hell of derision? How
>does he govern the feelings he has for folks that betrayed him,
>or treated him bad? What are his thoughts on the lack of concern
>of his own damned community that's shunned him in turn? What are
>his options? What's his prerogative? His _right_ to a TRIAL is a
>sad interrogative!
>
>Walking the _streets_ are those far worse than him! Released,
>and at large, they are MONSTERS, my friend! But John is locked
>up like a serial fiend, when, in TRUTH, he's done _nothing_ but
>question and dream! He's scorned for his courage of strident
>conviction! He's jailed for reasons concocted from fiction! He
>lives a perdition of slow rot to please all the ones that make
>out if he's brought to his knees!  He lives his debasement to
>further the ends of the demons that profit from what _they_
>pretend.  He's tied up and muffled to further the cause of
>political ambitions that should give us _all_ pause.  Forgotten
>and lonely he sits in his cell, thinking (quite rightly) he's
>gone straight to hell.
>
>What's the damn hold up? What was his crime? Who was it
>_injured_ for John doing time? What are the reasons he's
>suffered these years? Why don't they try him?
>
>Isn't it _queer_?
>
>How do they figure to hold him in jail, or NOT have a trial, and
>NOT hear his tale?  What of John's lawyer? What was his take?
>How much of John's property paid bills that were faked? _Where_
>are John's assets, what of his pension, how long should he
>suffer the man's foul detention?  _Where_ is the justice?
>_Where's_ the fair play; where has the *fairness* departed I
>say? Why can't he speak; why can't he talk -- why can't he tell
>us his crime is a crock? What is so secret they lock him away
>with the key gone misplaced as is done every day? When will he
>get all the rights that he *has* for being _American_, I hasten
>to add!
>
><recovering from righteous sneer>
>
>I'm thinking of you, John; I'm in my back yard. I'm looking at
>Venus, and stars that shine, hard. The wind's in my face, but my
>freedom's a fake; with you in your jail, my freedom's at stake.
>It's all washed away by the whim of a man who handles our lives
>with the heaviest hands. Step on his toes in a search for some
>equity, and suffer the slings and his arrow's inequity. Make a
>demand for respect you be shown, and be thrown to the foot of
>the man's jealous throne! Ask for just treatment -- to be kept
>well informed, and be found _surely_ outcast, shunned, and then
>scorned!
>
>When is your trial? Shall you be heard? Or will they just mock
>you, and keep you interred? May you, fates willing, secure a
>release, and slip from their bonds -- free at last, and at
>peace.
>
>Lehmberg@snowhill.com
>
>How much longer, people. Remember -- it's _you_ in there...
>Without a trial? I thought this was America? <sneering out the
>door...>
>
>Restore John Ford!
>
>
>--
>Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
>View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more.
>Consider Matter, Mind & Movement.
>See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration.
>Take a ride in the Teleporter.
>
>Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.

>http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
><Updated 2 April>

>John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
>money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
>(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
>304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
>$350.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected!

>"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
>afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
>fundamentalist's stake.



 Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
 ICQ#:7508455
 BBS: (502) 683-3026
 Fax: (502) 686-7394
 Home: (502) 683-6811
        ---





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   Apr > Apr 12

                  Re: UFO Community On MSN Highlights MUFON

From: Diana Botsford <diana_botsford@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:05:06 PDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:32:20 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Community On MSN Highlights MUFON


The UFO Community on MSN is available at:

http://communities.msn.com/ufo/default.asp.

All chats are accessible by using either our built in chat page,
MS Chat or any IRC client.  The chat server name is
publicchat.msn.com and the channel/room name is #briefing.

========================================

***ET & Tinsel Town? Chat with mUFOn's Don Waldrop - Los Angeles
Director Sunday, April 11th The Politics of UFOs 6pm, PT

Join us for a chat with Waldrop for an update on the Los Angeles
chapter of MUFON - a city that never sleeps and is notorious for
it's quanities of sightings.

We'll also get Waldrop's take on mUFOn's newly approved ballot
initiative (see more below).


***UFO LUMINARIES DESCEND ON SAN FRANCISCO ON APRIL 18th
Chat with UFO Researcher Ted Oliphant III
Tuesday, April 13th
6pm, PT

Oliphant joins us for a rare preview of the issues surrounding
of UFO Research Personalities Bob Wood (Psi-Tech co-founder),
his son Ryan Wood, Dr. James Harder, Psi-Tech co-founder Ron
Blackburn, J. Allen Hynek associate Fred Beckman (Jacques
Vallee's mentor), "UFOLOGY" author James McCampbell & former
USWeb CEO Joe Firmage will be on hand April 18, 1999 for a
special MUFON Field Investigator Training Seminar.

Can't make the big event in San Fransico?  Join Oliphant and the
UFO Community to get your word in ahead of time.

=========================================

Overheard in our chat room and newsgroups:

*Let's begin with what we know.  Just start from square one and
move forward.

*Firmage and Spirituality:  Is ex-CEO of USWEBS - Joe Firmage -
doing the right thing mixing ET and religion?

=========================================

FEATURED THIS WEEK:

One Step Closer to Disclosure?

MUFON Board of Directors Passes Ballot Initiative

In an historic first step into the 21st Century, the famous UFO
org begins the push for voter's to demand an end to government
secrecy. UFO Lobbyist Stephen Bassett gives us the run down on
the individuals involved in getting the initiative accepted as
well as where we go from here.

-----------------------------------------
Chats This Week at the UFO Community on MSN:

SATURDAYS - Abductions - 1pm, PT - 9pm, GMT
SATURDAYS - General Discussion - 6pm, PT
SUNDAYS - The Politics of UFOs - 6pm, PT
TUESDAYS - This Week in the News - 6pm, PT
WEDNESDAYS - Ancient Connections- 7pm, PT
THURSDAYS - UFO Skeptics - 7pm, PT
FRIDAYS - The Science of UFOs - 8pm, PT

Our chat room is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for discussion
relating to any UFO issues.  Meet your friends and make new ones.


========================================

***Volunteers Wanted:

1) Our Publicity Department is in need of enthusiastic
individuals who would like a free MSN account in exchange for
assistance.

2) Must know basic HTML.  You will receive a free account with
MSN in exchange for helping out.

=======================================

We look forward to seeing you online.

Diana Botsford
Publisher/Forum Manager
UFO Forum
http://communities.msn.com/UFO

- - - - - -
"To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought . . .
To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield."
Tennyson's Ulysses


************************

The ufo listserv is a free service of MSN's UFO Forum.
To subscribe, send email to majordomo@Majordomo.net
In the body of the message write: subscribe ufo

To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@Majordomo.net
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   Apr > Apr 12

                        QUEST MagazineQUEST Magazine

From: Philip Mantle - QUEST <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:09:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:43:52 -0400
Subject: QUEST MagazineQUEST Magazine


Dear colleagues,

Just to remind you that as always I am still on the lookout for
possible submissions for Quest Magazine here in the UK. If you
have any ideas for such submissions please feel free to run them
by me at: pmquest@dial.pipex.com

Many thanks,

Philip Mantle.
Quest Magazine.







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                       AUFORN: Meeting 16th April 1999

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:10:23 +1000
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:49:17 -0400
Subject: AUFORN: Meeting 16th April 1999


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail  tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw
*************************************************************
UFO Australian  Research Network Hot Line Number
                       1800 77 22 88 Free Call
**************************************************************
THE  AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK

Will be holding its public meeting this coming
Friday 16th April 1999.

Guests are: The Brisbane Astronomical Society

They will be presenting a slide show and a talk about  the new
found planets and our solar system. And how "you" can make your
own telescope.

Start Time: 7.30pm

Cost: $5.00 per person
Tea / Coffee and a light super will be provided.

All money raised is donated to the running of
The Australian UFO Research Network
1800 Free Call HOT LINE number.

Venue: The Springwood Community Centre.
Corner of Cinderella Drive & Venessa Blvd.

For more details you can contact Diane or Robert
on Tel 07 38088567 or

E-mail ufologist@powerup.com.au or tkbnetw@fan.net.au

Regards Diane Harrison










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   Apr > Apr 12

                 Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::

From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:31:53 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:41:40 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::


>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:35:22 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Francisco Lopez>d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::


<From: Blue Resonant Human>density4@cts.com>

>Response to Lammer et al.
>By: John B. Alexander, Ph.D.
 APOLLINAIR@aol.com

>In response to the various comments, I am submitting this
>commentary on Military Abductions (MILABs).  As with the first
>response, and contrary to assertions by Helmut Lammer, this
>commentary addresses only his MILABs, not all abduction cases.
>Interestingly, most of the respondents who have been whining on
>the Internet do not even address the question at hand.  That is
>human, not alien, interventions.


John,

Is there hard evidence that MILABS are going on? No. Is there
hard evidence that abductions are taking place? No. Is there
hard evidence that aliens are visiting opur planet? No. Does
this mean that it is not happening? No.

You seem to be claiming that you know every type of technology
that is available to a black ops group. What if there is
technology and groups that you are not aware of? There's no way
for you to know if there is info. out there that you don't have
clearance to know. I don't care what your classification level
is, if they don't want you to know something, then you won't
know it no matter how knowledgeable you think you are. No
offense.

I think you make too many assumptions as to why a group of black
ops people would be interested in alleged abductees. Maybe
Lammer's theories aren't correct but I think there is growing
testimony that points to a human group conducting some sort of
operations on humans related to the abduction phenomenon. Are
ETs, black ops and military groups involved? I don't know. But
to lump these people in with others with psychological disorders
is not fair. How many alleged abductees and/or alleged MILAB
people  (abductee) have you talked with face to face?


>There are, however, many well-known medical conditions that
>describe these signs and symptoms. These observed or perceived
>contentions maintain that some person, or group of persons, is
>after them are indeed found amongst 10 million persons per year
>who are seen by clinicians who include social workers, clinical
>psychologists, neurologists, general practitioners and other
>primary care practitioners, and sometime by psychiatrists.  The
>vast majority of these persons (over 90%) function very well
>within activities of daily life. Outside of a narrow, highly
>circumscribed paranoid delusion, concern, or worry-that while
>not real-these delusions are not disabling.  Most common are
>beliefs of other entities, voices, bedroom-related visions, and
>hypnagogic experiences.  Often they are accompanied over time by
>exaggerated notions of self-importance. Clinical estimates are
that over 100 million of these persons are alive today
worldwide.>

It's possible that some of these people have psychological
problems but you seem to once again, lump them all together.
If I ever had an abduction like experience, I would hesitate
before telling anybody. I certainly wouldn't tell you. You
would say that I was in the hypnagogic state.

Where's you're compassion and open mindeness? Seems
to be lacking.

Joe in Tampa





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   Apr > Apr 12

                Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:39:03 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:01:17 -0400
Subject: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference


In an unexpected and vicious move, Dr. Jaime Gesundt boycotted
the NY City Abduction Conference and assailed Hopkins.  "That
son a mon gun stole my ideas.." ranted Gesundt, who claims it
was his idea to have a conference in NY to begin with.

"Gesundt wants nothing but to further his fresh wine business,
he doesn't give a hoot about the real issue and real abductees"
Mr. Hopkins is reported as saying, although we are unable to
confirm Hopkins comments.  What is certain is that these two men
of UFO research are not on the best of terms.  Gesundt was
supposed to have a Gripple tasting stand outside the conference
center, but at the last minute, Gesundt called a Press
Conference and railed against Hopkins, Jacobs, Friedman, Clark,
Rainey (he called her a "Rainy Day Woman!") and Sandow, calling
them "thieves, tea totalers and barbarians!"

New York City is a big place, and there should be room for these
two neighbors to shine in their own light.  Apparently, though,
this Hopkins upstart is not playing fair.  This reporter
promises to get to the bottom of this story and deliver all the
facts in this late breaking news happening.  No matter who is
right, although it probably is NOT my boss...

Dr. Jamey Fotsblot, cub reporter, Gesundt Gazette





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   Apr > Apr 12

                   The Millennium Report - April 12, 1999

From: Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:14:01 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:03:25 -0400
Subject: The Millennium Report - April 12, 1999



The Millennium Report
News and Updates from The Millennium Project

April 12, 1999

_____________________________


NEWS OF THE WEEK

* MUFON To Secure UFO Hearings Vote On US State Ballots?
* Tepoztlan, Mexico: A UFO Hotspot
* UFO Roundup 4.15 - April 12, 1999
* Filer's Files #14 - April 8, 1999
* First 1999 Crop Formation in England!
* NHNE Special Report: Crop Circles, by Sherry Stultz
* Crop Circles: Wheat Growth Experiment in Indiana Produces
   Startling Results
* UFO, Crop Circle and Paranormal Exhibit at Science World
   in Vancouver
* New Evidence for a Planet Around 51 Pegasi
* The Nine Planets: A Multimedia Tour of the Solar System
* Children of the Ice - Inca Mummies Found in Andes Mountains
* Climate Change Measureable at Earth's Poles
* World Population to Reach 6 Billion This Year


SPECIAL RESEARCH PROJECTS

* Mystery Contrails: Report from Michigan
* Radar Anomalies: Rings Over Tennessee, Nevada and Florida


RELATED WEB SITE LINKS

* New Links Added

_____________________________


See the TMP web site for links to these current
news stories and updates, an archive of previous
news and information on other TMP resources:

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


The Millennium Report is the e-mail update service of The
Millennium Project, an independent research organization
initiated in January 1999 as an alternative source of news
and information to the maintream media. TMP was founded
by future studies researcher Paul Anderson, also director of
Circles Phenomenon Research Canada.

TMR is published weekly or as breaking news develops, with
the latest news, information and web site updates and is
available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from
the mailing list, send your request, including either "subscribe
TMR" or "unsubscribe TMR" and e-mail address to:
psa@direct.ca

TMP welcomes your news leads and submissions.
Forward all correspondence to:

E-Mail:
psa@direct.ca

Tel / Fax:
604.731.8522

Mail:
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC
V6J 1J
Canada

=A9 The Millennium Project, 1999


Paul Anderson

Founder / Director
THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

Director
CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Circles Phenomenon Research International
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310

Representative
BLT RESEARCH, INC.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/blt.html

E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC
V6J 1J4
Canada







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                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 15

From: Masinaigan@aol.com
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:25:40 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:01:16 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 15

     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 4, Number 15
April 12, 1999
Editor: Joseph Trainor





UFO BLAMED FOR ROOF COLLAPSE IN CANADA

A diamond-shaped UFO is being blamed for the unexplained
collapse of a theatre roof in Kimberley, British Columbia,
Canada (population 6,531).

The incident took place around midnight on Friday, March 5,
1999.

According to the East Kootenay Weekly, "A diamond-shaped UFO
covered with flashing lights may have been responsible for the
collapse of the McKim Theatre roof in Kimberley two weeks ago."

"That's the rumor setting the ski town a-buzz after about five
witnesses reported seeing strange lights drifting slowly above
the Bavarian City around midnight March 5."

"Fuelling speculation were reports of an unusual 'light show'
spotted directly over the theatre roof just a few hours before
its as-yet-unexplained collapse."

The UFO was first sighted at 10 p.m. when "Home care worker Gail
Shay had just returned from work to her apartment at the Pioneer
Lodge on Church Street. As she prepared to retire, she watched
unusually bright lights hovering above the roof of the theatre."

"A second glance sent shivers up her spine."

"'It was like nothing I've ever seen before,' says Shay."

"'At first, it seemed that there was a crisscrossing spotlight
going up into the sky from the roof of the school. (Editor's
Note: The abandoned McKim Theatre is now an annex of Kimberley
Middle School.) It was glimmering, like the northern lights.
There were all these colours. Then the light spread out like a
mushroom cloud, exactly on the same spot where the roof is (now)
gone.'"

"'I was seeking through a list of possible explanations,' Shay
said. She decided she must be hallucinating and crawled quickly
into bed. 'I just kept thinking, Well, it's some unexplained
natural phenomena... I can accept lots, but this was too much,'
she said."

"Approximately one hour later, 68-year-old Ted Zawaski was
shaken out of a deep sleep by a phone call."

"At the other end of the line was a friend in Chapman Camp,
incoherently insisting that Zawaski take a look at the sky."

"After a few minutes, Zawaski said he was able to make sense of
his friend's words--a diamond-shaped UFO covered with flashing
lights was drifting slowly over the trees west of him."

"'The minute I saw it, I almost panicked, but because it was
like nothing ever seen on Earth,' said Zawaski, who lives in
Townsite."

"Excitedly swapping details with the friend in Chapman Camp,
Zawaski watched the object from 12:15 to 12:40 a.m. when it
drifted out of sight behind the trees."

"Zawaski admitted to being a bit of a UFO aficionado himself,
and has spotted four UFOs in the past 30 years-- in Austria,
Norway, near Calgary and Kimberley. However, the other three
witnesses claimed they had never seen one (before) and weren't
looking."

"Kimberley RCMP (Royal Candian Mounted Police--J.T.) received
several telephone calls that night about the phenomenon,
although they were unable to verify the sighting."

"'We're not about to speculate on the cause of the collapse, but
we've heard all kinds of tales, including UFO sightings on
Friday night,' said George Watson," director of School District
No. 6.

Located in the Purcell Mountains, Kimberley is on Provincial
Highway 95A about 520 miles (832 kilometers) east of Vancouver,
B.C. (See the East Kootenay Weekly for March 23, 1999, "Did a
UFO cause the new Kimberley School roof to collapse?" by
Christine Boyd.

POLICEMEN IN CHILE OBSERVE A HOVERING UFO

On Friday, April 2, 1999, two Carabineros (officers of Chile's
national police) observed a UFO hovering above a nearby
mountaintop in Puerto Natales, a city located just north of the
Strait of Magellan.

According to the Chilean newspaper La Tercera, "Two Carabineros
stationed at the 3rd Commissariat of Puerto Natales in the
extreme south of Chile claimed that they had seen an
unidentified flying object while beginning a patrol in the
city."

"According to the witnesses, the UFO was seen on the morning of
Holy Friday (April 2). In their report, the officers, Sergeant
Humberto Punitanco and Corporal Sergio Said said they had seen
red, green and yellow lights on the object, which performed
several side-to-side displacements, as it hovered in the sky
near the summit of Mount Balmacoda."

"The object was visible from the highland section in the center
of Puerto Natales." (See the newspaper La Tercera for April 4,
1999. Muchas gracias a Diego Zuniga y Guillermo Alarcon para esa
historia.)

On Tuesday morning, April 6, 1999, "a UFO with multicolored
lights was seen in Santiago de Chile," the national capital,
"just after 1 a.m., with reports of 'an extraordinary presence'
in the sky over the Estacion Central."

"In the barrio of Renca, a group of friends took a video of the
OVNI (Spanish acronym for UFO--J.T.) which spent the better part
of an hour circling Santiago. A close-up zoom image of the
object shows a strange form in the shape of a T." (See La
Tercera for April 7, 1999, "OVNI fue visto ayer en Santiago."
Muchas gracias a Diego Zuniga para eso historia.)

HEAVY UFO ACTIVITY REPORTED IN PERU'S CUZCO REGION

On Monday, March 8, 1999, residents of Chinchero, a village in
the Andes of Peru about 26 kilometers (16 miles) north of Cuzco,
reported seeing a glowing UFO land in a field on the edge of
town.

When the Quechua people of the village visited the field the
following morning, "they found a large circular depression" in
the ground.

More reports came from Lago de Huaypo, an alpine lake located 15
kilometers (9 miles) west of Chinchero. Area residents claimed
to have seen "light ships entering and leaving" the remote lake.
(Editor's Note: Lago de Huaypo is a notorious UFO hot spot, with
many sightings there during 1967 and 1980.)

Researcher Kathy Doore stated that Chinchero "is the site of an
impressive Incan ceremonial complex located along the ceques
(ley lines) which radiate outward from the Curicancha (the
Incas' Temple of the Sun--J.T.) in Cuzco. Local legends tell of
strange beings interacting with the Quechua Indians of the area,
and of 'light ships' emerging and descending to and from the
watery depths of the lake." (Muchas gracia a Kathy Doore para
esas historias.)

SILVER SPHERE UFO HOVERS ABOVE SAO PAULO

On Sunday, April 4, 1999, at 8:10 a.m., Sra. Milton entered her
yard in the Jardim Saude section of Sao Paulo, Brazil's largest
city. Suddenly, she noticed a strange silvery gleam in the sky.

"I saw an ovoid (round) metallic object in the sky near
Congonhas Airport," she reported, "It was reflecting the
sunlight. The object first stopped, then made an abrupt move and
stopped again. Then it returned to its first position."

While the silvery sphere hovered silently overhead, Sra. Milton
ran in the house to fetch her husband. "But when they emerged
from the house, the object was gone." (Muito obrigado a Thiago
Ticchetti por eso caso.)





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 12

                               Crop 'Circlers'

From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:50:15 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:04:55 -0400
Subject: Crop 'Circlers'


Source: Netsurfer Digest Vol.5 Number 11

http://www.eyewire.com/eyeopeners/cropsecrets.html

Crop Circlers

One night in 1978, after a few pints at the pub and a discussion
about UFOs, Doug Bower and his friend Dave Chorley made the
first crop circle, using a four-foot metal bar used to secure
the back door of Doug's art studio. Since then, crop circles
have become a favorite spiritual art form, a medium whose
critics unusually believe some transcendent message can be
derived from wheat flattened by a board. The Circlemakers site
provides more responsible commentary. Check out Top of the Crop,
photos of last year's most impressive creations. Included are
instructions on how to make your own crop circles. Farmers'
reactions to having their fields turned into UFO landing pads
not included.


Regards,


John Hayes

jhayes@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com
UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/
UFOICQ Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:-
        http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   Apr > Apr 12

                        Re: EarthLights Site w/Webcam

From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:06:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:06:38 -0400
Subject: Re: EarthLights Site w/Webcam


>From: Stephen Miles Lewis <stephen.lewis@tsl.state.tx.us>
>Subject: EarthLights Site w/Webcam?
>Date: 10 Apr 1999 12:49:45 -05
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Within the last couple of months someone posted a web address
>for an earthlights research site which features a live webcam.
>This is not the old Project Hesdalen site (to my knowledge).

>I bookmarked it when I first found it but, since installing some
>new computer equipment I've been unable to find that bookmarks
>list (shazbot!) so I'd appreciate any help in relocating this
>resource.

The address you are looking for is the Longdendale
Lights/Legends of Longdendale site, recently updated with new
links and information. The address is:

www.hauntedvalley.com





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   Apr > Apr 12

                      CPR-Canada News - April 12, 1999

From: Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:25:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:09:59 -0400
Subject: CPR-Canada News - April 12, 1999


CPR-Canada News
News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada

April 12, 1999

_____________________________


NEWS

* First 1999 Crop Formation in England!
* NHNE Special Report: Crop Circles, by Sherry Stultz
* Wheat Growth Experiment in Indiana Produces Startling
   Results
* UFO, Crop Circle and Paranormal Exhibit at Science World
   in Vancouver


SPECIAL RESEARCH PROJECTS

* Special Research Projects Added to Web Site
* Forest Rings: Report Available from The Geological
   Survey of Canada
* Radar Anomalies: More Rings Over the US;
   Cloud Circles on Radar - Statement from Colin Andrews


RESEARCH ASSISTANCE

* Research Assistance 1999


CPR-CANADA OFFICES

* New Web Site for CPR-Saskatchewan (Under Construction)


_____________________________


See the CPR-Canada web site for links to these news
stories, an archive of previous news and information
on other CPR-Canada resources:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310

_____________________________


CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of
Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, an affiliate of
Circles Phenomenon Research International,
initiated in 1995 by future studies researcher
Paul Anderson, also founder and director of
The Millennium Project.

CPR-Canada News is published periodically, with
the latest news, information and web site updates
and is available free by subscription; to be added to
or removed from the mailing list, send your request,
including either "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or
"unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address
to: psa@direct.ca

CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions,
by the tel / fax / e-mail hotlines or mail. Forward
all correspondence to:

E-Mail:
psa@direct.ca

Tel / Fax:
604.731.8522

Mail:
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC
V6J 1J
Canada

=A9 CPR-Canada, 1999







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   Apr > Apr 12

                           Re: Kraus vs. Friedman

From: Pat McCartney <ElPatricio@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:56:53 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:24:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Kraus vs. Friedman


> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:13:00 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
>Subject: Re: Bulgarians From Outer Space


>Well, yes, but if you're going to adhere to this viewpoint you
>might as well say anything or nothing at all. You might also ask
>yourself, while you're at it, if they're so goddammed advanced
>then what could they possibly need or want from us at all? Why
>would they friggin' bother?

>Let's concede that they _are_ a billion years in advance of us.
>(Which is where you want to have your cake and consume it, too.)
>Having now conquered interstellar travel in that interval, where
>else would they be scientifically deficient? What _possible_
>interest could they have in us at all, let alone some sort of
>cosmic "need", never mind a sharing of environmental concerns?

Dennis, this sort of anthropomorphism begins to resemble
theology more than a quest for extraterrestrial intelligence.
And in that regard, I am reminded of what the Christian mystic,
Sir Thomas Ockham, had to say about deciphering the motives of
God.

"Whatever you say about God is necessarily false."

I could speculate about possible motives for our galactic elders
to visit -- visiting their genetic offspring, exploration, the
benevolence that may come with infinite affluence, for instance.
But those guesses might have as little to do with an actual
reason as a numeric estimate of the number of angels that can
dance on the head of a pin.

Who knows, perhaps we are kin to the visitors in the same way
that you and I are related to that Bulgarian.

And speaking of Bulgarians, if you told me you were visited by
one, even as cheerful and credible as you are, how could I rely
on your mere anecdote? To answer my own question, I would say
just as the courtroom and newspaper rely on personal testimony
to form conclusions, observations of UFOs by credible witnesses
should be dismissed only by those who don't care about the
ultimate nature of the cosmos.

Regards,

Pat McCartney
Auburn Journal






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   Apr > Apr 13

               UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 15 [Full Version]

From: Masinaigan@aol.com
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:25:40 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:38:08 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 15 [Full Version]


     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 4, Number 15
April 12, 1999
Editor: Joseph Trainor





UFO BLAMED FOR ROOF COLLAPSE IN CANADA

A diamond-shaped UFO is being blamed for the unexplained
collapse of a theatre roof in Kimberley, British Columbia,
Canada (population 6,531).

The incident took place around midnight on Friday, March 5,
1999.

According to the East Kootenay Weekly, "A diamond-shaped UFO
covered with flashing lights may have been responsible for the
collapse of the McKim Theatre roof in Kimberley two weeks ago."

"That's the rumor setting the ski town a-buzz after about five
witnesses reported seeing strange lights drifting slowly above
the Bavarian City around midnight March 5."

"Fuelling speculation were reports of an unusual 'light show'
spotted directly over the theatre roof just a few hours before
its as-yet-unexplained collapse."

The UFO was first sighted at 10 p.m. when "Home care worker Gail
Shay had just returned from work to her apartment at the Pioneer
Lodge on Church Street. As she prepared to retire, she watched
unusually bright lights hovering above the roof of the theatre."

"A second glance sent shivers up her spine."

"'It was like nothing I've ever seen before,' says Shay."

"'At first, it seemed that there was a crisscrossing spotlight
going up into the sky from the roof of the school. (Editor's
Note: The abandoned McKim Theatre is now an annex of Kimberley
Middle School.) It was glimmering, like the northern lights.
There were all these colours. Then the light spread out like a
mushroom cloud, exactly on the same spot where the roof is (now)
gone.'"

"'I was seeking through a list of possible explanations,' Shay
said. She decided she must be hallucinating and crawled quickly
into bed. 'I just kept thinking, Well, it's some unexplained
natural phenomena... I can accept lots, but this was too much,'
she said."

"Approximately one hour later, 68-year-old Ted Zawaski was
shaken out of a deep sleep by a phone call."

"At the other end of the line was a friend in Chapman Camp,
incoherently insisting that Zawaski take a look at the sky."

"After a few minutes, Zawaski said he was able to make sense of
his friend's words--a diamond-shaped UFO covered with flashing
lights was drifting slowly over the trees west of him."

"'The minute I saw it, I almost panicked, but because it was
like nothing ever seen on Earth,' said Zawaski, who lives in
Townsite."

"Excitedly swapping details with the friend in Chapman Camp,
Zawaski watched the object from 12:15 to 12:40 a.m. when it
drifted out of sight behind the trees."

"Zawaski admitted to being a bit of a UFO aficionado himself,
and has spotted four UFOs in the past 30 years-- in Austria,
Norway, near Calgary and Kimberley. However, the other three
witnesses claimed they had never seen one (before) and weren't
looking."

"Kimberley RCMP (Royal Candian Mounted Police--J.T.) received
several telephone calls that night about the phenomenon,
although they were unable to verify the sighting."

"'We're not about to speculate on the cause of the collapse, but
we've heard all kinds of tales, including UFO sightings on
Friday night,' said George Watson," director of School District
No. 6.

Located in the Purcell Mountains, Kimberley is on Provincial
Highway 95A about 520 miles (832 kilometers) east of Vancouver,
B.C. (See the East Kootenay Weekly for March 23, 1999, "Did a
UFO cause the new Kimberley School roof to collapse?" by
Christine Boyd.

POLICEMEN IN CHILE OBSERVE A HOVERING UFO

On Friday, April 2, 1999, two Carabineros (officers of Chile's
national police) observed a UFO hovering above a nearby
mountaintop in Puerto Natales, a city located just north of the
Strait of Magellan.

According to the Chilean newspaper La Tercera, "Two Carabineros
stationed at the 3rd Commissariat of Puerto Natales in the
extreme south of Chile claimed that they had seen an
unidentified flying object while beginning a patrol in the
city."

"According to the witnesses, the UFO was seen on the morning of
Holy Friday (April 2). In their report, the officers, Sergeant
Humberto Punitanco and Corporal Sergio Said said they had seen
red, green and yellow lights on the object, which performed
several side-to-side displacements, as it hovered in the sky
near the summit of Mount Balmacoda."

"The object was visible from the highland section in the center
of Puerto Natales." (See the newspaper La Tercera for April 4,
1999. Muchas gracias a Diego Zuniga y Guillermo Alarcon para esa
historia.)

On Tuesday morning, April 6, 1999, "a UFO with multicolored
lights was seen in Santiago de Chile," the national capital,
"just after 1 a.m., with reports of 'an extraordinary presence'
in the sky over the Estacion Central."

"In the barrio of Renca, a group of friends took a video of the
OVNI (Spanish acronym for UFO--J.T.) which spent the better part
of an hour circling Santiago. A close-up zoom image of the
object shows a strange form in the shape of a T." (See La
Tercera for April 7, 1999, "OVNI fue visto ayer en Santiago."
Muchas gracias a Diego Zuniga para eso historia.)

HEAVY UFO ACTIVITY REPORTED IN PERU'S CUZCO REGION

On Monday, March 8, 1999, residents of Chinchero, a village in
the Andes of Peru about 26 kilometers (16 miles) north of Cuzco,
reported seeing a glowing UFO land in a field on the edge of
town.

When the Quechua people of the village visited the field the
following morning, "they found a large circular depression" in
the ground.

More reports came from Lago de Huaypo, an alpine lake located 15
kilometers (9 miles) west of Chinchero. Area residents claimed
to have seen "light ships entering and leaving" the remote lake.
(Editor's Note: Lago de Huaypo is a notorious UFO hot spot, with
many sightings there during 1967 and 1980.)

Researcher Kathy Doore stated that Chinchero "is the site of an
impressive Incan ceremonial complex located along the ceques
(ley lines) which radiate outward from the Curicancha (the
Incas' Temple of the Sun--J.T.) in Cuzco. Local legends tell of
strange beings interacting with the Quechua Indians of the area,
and of 'light ships' emerging and descending to and from the
watery depths of the lake." (Muchas gracia a Kathy Doore para
esas historias.)

SILVER SPHERE UFO HOVERS ABOVE SAO PAULO

On Sunday, April 4, 1999, at 8:10 a.m., Sra. Milton entered her
yard in the Jardim Saude section of Sao Paulo, Brazil's largest
city. Suddenly, she noticed a strange silvery gleam in the sky.

"I saw an ovoid (round) metallic object in the sky near
Congonhas Airport," she reported, "It was reflecting the
sunlight. The object first stopped, then made an abrupt move and
stopped again. Then it returned to its first position."

While the silvery sphere hovered silently overhead, Sra. Milton
ran in the house to fetch her husband. "But when they emerged
from the house, the object was gone." (Muito obrigado a Thiago
Ticchetti por eso caso.)

TRIANGULAR UFO SPOTTED IN MASSACHUSETTS

On Wednesday, April 7, 1999, at 10:58 p.m., Stacy S. "was
looking through the second-story window of my home," near John
Parker Road in East Falmouth, Massachusetts (population 5,577)
when "I watched through the sheers strange double white lights
resembling car headlights, across the sky through the maple
trees."

"The craft came from the west, approximately at a 35 degree
angle. Unfortunately, I had it in view only four or five
seconds."

"As it approached my house, I could see that this aircraft was
not making a sound. It was only slightly above the maple trees
in my front yard, moving with absolutely no noise. It had a
triangular shape with a large spotlight thing on each end of it
with pulsating red lights underneath it."

"My mind was thinking that it's just an airplane, but its
silence and fluid motion told me this was not so. As it rose
above the treeline, it shifted slightly to the right and flew
over our house until I could see it no longer."

"I am now convinced there are UFOs in the sky," Stacy added,
"This was like nothing I have ever seen."

East Falmouth is on Cape Cod, just off Route 28 about 75 miles
(120 kilometers) southeast of Boston. (Email Interview)

UFOs SIGHTED IN UNIONVILLE AND FAIRGROVE, MICHIGAN

Two small towns in "the Thumb" of Michigan were the focus of UFO
activity Tuesday night, March 16, 1999.

"Adiel DeBoever said he was the first to call Tuscola County
Central Dispatch around 8:30 p.m. March 16 just after he spotted
the lights in the sky hovering over his home."

"DeBoever said this is the first time he's seen lights like
this. He said they were bright orange in color and looked to be
shining from the inside of an object."

"'The lights weren't like a spotlight shining down from the sky,
but they were very noticeable,' he said."

The sightings took place in Unionville, Michigan (population
590), a town on Highway 138 about 113 miles (181 kilometers)
north of Detroit.

"The sighting by DeBoever was just one of five reports that
night by area residents who say they saw an unidentified flying
object."

"DeBoever, who lives on Cottage Drive near Unionville, said the
lights all blinked out of sight and then came back on."

"DeBoever thinks as far as distance, the lights probably were
over half a mile away to the east, just above a Department of
Natural Resources (DNR) wetland when he saw them."

"'They spread out the entire length of a football field. There
were two sets of lights which were bright orange. The large one
could be seen further away,' he said. 'When my nephew came out
of the house. I said, 'Eddie, there's a UFO in the sky.' just
joking and then the lights blinked out, but came on again
later.'"

"Officials at Tuscola County Central Dispatch say they have no
explanation for what the lights were that night...Shortly after
DeBoever's call, Central Dispatch received a call at 8:57 p.m.
from a Juanita township resident who reported seeing orange
lights in the sky."

"Just two minutes later, a Novesta township man called with
another sighting. Callers from Fremont township and the
Fairgrove area" (population 592), another town on Highway 138
approximately 13 miles (21 kilometers) southwest of Unionville,
"followed. The callers described seeing orange lights in the
shape of a football field, while the Fairgrove residents
reported seeing a Z-shaped formation in the sky."

"Officials from the Selfridge (Michigan) Air National Guard base
said they couldn't offer any explanation about the lights in the
sky and no sightings were reported to the base."

However, Michigan ufologist Jeffrey S. Westover interviewed news
reporter Jay Brandow of WNEM-TV, Channel 5, a CBS affiliate in
Saginaw, Michigan. Westover wrote, "Brandow told me that
Selfridge had sent two F-16s into the area" the night of the UFO
sightings. (See the newspapers Marlette, Mich. Leader and the
Huron Daily Tribune of Bad Axe, Mich. for March 31, 1999,
"Unusual sightings in the sky peak interest in The Thumb." Many
thanks to Jeffrey S. Westover for forwarding the newspaper
article.)

Y2K: MARINES, NAVY HOLD MARTIAL LAW EXERCISE IN FLORIDA MIDDLE
SCHOOL

On Thursday morning, March 25, 1999, platoons of U.S. Marines,
Navy and Coast Guard personnel occupied the Hobbs Middle School
in Pensacola, Florida (population 58, 165)

According to the Pensacola, Fla. News-Journal, "The sleepy
atmosphere that pervades the grounds was broken at Hobbs Middle
School on Thursday morning by the sound of Marines, Navy and
Coast Guard pilots marching through the school's halls."

"While sixth graders in Lynnette Whitfield's geography class
were watching CNN reports of a NATO airstrike against
Yugoslavia, they heard a voice bark over the intercom, 'Military
personnel, take your classrooms.'"

"The mock takeover of Hobbs Middle School by pilots and flight
students from Whiting Field was a way to illustrate what martial
law is all about, said Lt. Troy Beshears, a Coast Guard pilot
assigned to Whiting Field Naval Air Station" in Pensacola.

"But once the sailors and Marines were in the classroom, their
mission was to teach for a day subjects such as math, science,
history and geography and give teachers a break."

"'We're going for the shock value initially,' said Navy Lt. Dan
Deutermann, 29, but in the classroom, we're showing the students
practical applications for what they're learning.'"

"Several students brought up questions about the Kosovo
situation."

"Seventh grader Corey Keenlan selected Yugoslavia when a Navy
ensign teaching geography asked students to name their favorite
European country."

"One of Whitfield's students, Julie McCool, said the presence of
the military personnel in her school made the news she'd been
watching from Yugoslavia seem a little more real."

"'I just don't want it to get much worse,' said Julie, (age)
12."

"The visit is part of Whiting Field's Adopt-A-School program
controlled by Breshears." All personnel participating in the
"visit" were reportedly volunteers. (See the Pensacola, Fla.
News-Journal for March 26, 1999, story by Jenny LaCoste.)

(Editor's Comment: Were I a property-owning taxpayer in
Pensacola, I would be burning up the telephone lines to City
Hall, inquiring why my taxes are paying a teacher $25 per hour
to sit around twiddling their thumbs while military personnel do
the teaching for them. But worse than that is using those
children as "Serbian stand-ins" for a martial law training
exercise. Adopt-A-School Program, indeed. Sounds like something
Madeleine K. Albright dreamed up.)

"SANTA ROSA WOMAN" MAY BE THE OLDEST AMERICAN

"Bones of a woman found on California's Channel Islands might be
among the oldest human remains found so far in North America,
and they could support theories that the first Americans came by
sea rather than over a land bridge, scientists say."

"The bones of the so-called Arlington Springs woman are probably
13,000 years old, the Los Angeles Times reported Sunday," April
11, 1999.

"That would make her slightly older than the oldest known
skeletons in North America, which were found in Montana, Idaho
and Texas." (Editor's Note: And about 2,000 years older than New
Mexico's "Folsom Man.")

"'Bottom line is, she may be the earliest inhabitant of North
America we have discovered. It's a find of national
significance,' said John Johnson, curator of anthropology at the
Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History, which is part of a team
researching the woman's bones."

"The work was described in a paper presented March 30 at the
Fifth California Islands Symposium at the museum."

"The remains--two thigh bones--were discovered at Arlington
Springs on Santa Rosa Island 40 years ago and kept at the Santa
Barbara museum."

"Recently researchers at the museum and Channel Islands National
Park conducted DNA and radiocarbon tests that were unavailable
when the bones were first found."

"One test produced an estimate that the bones are 11,000 years
old (about the same as Folsom Man--J.T.), and a second gives an
age of about 13,000 years, the Times said." (See USA Today for
April 12, 1999, "Recovered human bones may be oldest in North
America," page 19A.)

BANDLEADER DISAPPEARANCE SOLVED AFTER FIFTY YEARS

For years the famous bandleader Glenn Miller, whose plane
disappeared on December 15, 1944, has been part and parcel of
UFO lore.

Miller, whose hit tunes of the 1940s included In The Mood and
Chattanooga Choo-Choo, was the subject of many unusual theories,
including

(A) His plane was shot down by a "foo fighter" (mid-1940s name
for UFOs--J.T.) over the English Channel.

(B) His plane was halted by a tractor beam and hauled aboard a
gigantic flying saucer.

(C) He was abducted by small aliens from his hotel in the
Montmartre section of Paris.

(D) His distinctive eyeglasses, with the monogram GM, were among
the debris found in the desert near Roswell, New Mexico in July
1947.

The truth, however, is much more mundane than that. Miller's
plane crashed as a result of a horrifying military mishap over
the Channel.

The night of December 15, 1944, Miller boarded a
single-propellor-engine Norseman D-64, which was to fly him to
Paris for a band concert.

Meanwhile, a four-engine Royal Air Force Lancaster bomber--one
of the hundreds sent to Germany that night by RAF Bomber
Command--developed engine trouble over France and was granted
permission to return to their base in East Anglia, UK.

Aboard "M Mother" was airman/navigator Fred Shaw. Once the
Lancaster was over the Channel, the pilot told the bombardier to
jettison their load of 4,000-pound Grand Slam bombs. The
bombardier hit the toggle, adding, "Bombs gone!"

Shaw watched as the "stick" of Grand Slam bombs began their
22,000-foot drop into the sea. Then he spotted the Norseman
approaching from the northwest.

"I watched the plane flying south," Shaw wrote, "Around it, the
sea bubbled and blustered with the exploding bombs. As each bomb
burst, I could see the blast wave from it radiating outward. It
was obvious the airplane was in trouble, so I watched intently."

"Just before it went out of sight, I saw it flip over in what
looked like a spin. Eventually I saw it disappear into the
Channel."

(Editor's Comment: Sounds like the blast vibration shattered the
Norseman's ailerons.)

"'Dad was an aviation buff, and he knew what Miller's plane
looked like,' Shaw's daughter Cheryl Fillmore tells Globe. 'He
told me he saw the Norseman at exactly the same time Miller went
missing.'"

"The (M Mother's RAF) logbook, along with letters and photos of
Shaw and his bomber crew are being auctioned this month by
Sotheby's." (See the Globe for April 5, 1999, "Solved! Mystery
of Glenn Miller's Death," by John Bell.)


from the UFO Files...

1953: TWO USAF RECON PLANES CHASE A UFO OVER SOUTH KOREA

On Sunday, April 19, 1953, at about 1 p.m., a reconnaissance
plane of the U.S. Air Force's Far Eastern Air Force (FEAF) was
on a routine patrol over Seoul, the capital of South Korea.

The three-man crew included the pilot, Lt. Julius Morgan, plus
observers, Lt. James O. Rymus and Lt. John E, Myers. During
these last days of the Korean War, they were hunting for hostile
MiGs from North Korea or China. But instead they encountered
something else entirely.

"A white shiny round object was seen over Seoul at approximately
1 p.m. today. Aerial observers in two separate planes flying
routine reconnaissance missions observed a white, rounded,
delta-shaped object. It was estimated to be five to seven feet
in diameter. The observers had no idea of its depth or
thickness."

"It was traveling between 60 to 80 mph (miles per hour) in a
vibrating motion. The course of flight was north-northeast to
south-southwest over enemy (North Korean) territory."

"The object had no visible means of propulsion and sometimes
flew only 100 feet (30 meters) above the ground."

"The fliers, four Americans on reconnaissance flight, said it
appeared to be round, only 10 feet (3 meters) in diameter, and
about 25 miles (40 kilometers) northeast of Panmunjom."

Interestingly, one of the observers made the offhand remark that
"other luminous objects traveling at supersonic speeds of 800
miles per hour had been observed in the Baldy/Pork Chop area and
tracked on radar."

The peaks of Old Baldy and Pork Chop Hill were the scenes of
heavy fighting the month before this UFO sighting. (See APRO
Bulletin, volume 1, number 6 for May 15, 1953. Quoted in
Advanced Aerial Devices Reported During the Korean War by
Richard F. Haines, LDA Press, Los Altos, California, 1990, pages
60 and 61.)

FUN UFO WEBSITES

Want to learn more about the mysterious Tomb of Osiris,
discovered in November 1998 by Dr. Zahi Hawass? Check out this
site--http://www.owdo.ndirect.co.uk/london8.htm

There's a great paper by veteran ufologist George D. Fawcett now
online. It's entitled "UFO Repititions: A Challenge to
Scientific Investigation," and you can read it at this URL:
http://www.chucara.com/dossiers/other/gdfawcett_ang.htm

Don't miss our parent site, UFOINFO, with its wide array of news
stories, photos, features and links. Drop in any time at this
URL: http://ufoinfo.com

Back issues of UFO Roundup can be accessed and downloaded at our
webpage. Come, stay awhile and browse at our webpage at
http://ufoinfo.com/roundup

ROUNDUP CORRIGENDA

The date in last issue's story from LaVerne, California should
read March 29, not August 29.

Also, J.R. Gillis is a member of Independent Researchers
Association for Anomalous Phenomena (IRAAP), not MUFON. Our
newsletter regrets the error.

Join us next time for more saucer news from "the paper that goes
home--UFO Roundup." See you soon.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1999 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on
their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in
which the item first appeared.









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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 13

              Re: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:10:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:53:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference


>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:39:03 EDT
>Subject: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>In an unexpected and vicious move, Dr. Jaime Gesundt boycotted
>the NY City Abduction Conference and assailed Hopkins.  "That
>son a mon gun stole my ideas.." ranted Gesundt, who claims it
>was his idea to have a conference in NY to begin with.

Hello Dr. Gesundt,

Glad to see that you're back safe and sound from your sojourn on
the continent. However, I must take this oportunity to remind
you of a certain $150 wager we made several months ago regarding
the success (or not) of the IF conference. It appears to me that
the proceeds from the sale of your next batch of Gripple belong
to me! <EG>

In consideration of your past support, and the invaluable help
that you have been to Budd, IF and to me personally, I am
willing to forego payment on your ill considered bet/debt. I did
want to rub your nose in it though! <G> It's no more than you
deserve for betting that we'd lose! Now you know better. There
are no slouchers at IF brother man. -Never- bet against us.
<VBG>

Your friend in the purity and essence of our precious bodily
fluids,

. . . and the -winner,-

John Velez  :)
________________________________________________
                                jvif@spacelab.net
INTRUDERS FOUNDATION/ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER
                            http://www.if-aic.com/
"Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   Apr > Apr 13

                             Re: Crop 'Circlers'

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:40:16 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:59:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Crop 'Circlers'


>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:50:15 +0100
>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
>Subject: Crop 'Circlers'

>Source: Netsurfer Digest Vol.5 Number 11

>http://www.eyewire.com/eyeopeners/cropsecrets.html

>Crop Circlers

>One night in 1978, after a few pints at the pub and a discussion
>about UFOs, Doug Bower and his friend Dave Chorley made the
>first crop circle, using a four-foot metal bar used to secure
>the back door of Doug's art studio. Since then, crop circles

Ah, Doug and Dave the Bartlyles and James of Crop Cricles.


>have become a favorite spiritual art form, a medium whose
>critics unusually believe some transcendent message can be
>derived from wheat flattened by a board. The Circlemakers site
>provides more responsible commentary.

Ok, again,this Armadillo ventures out on I-10!!

>Check out Top of the Crop,
>photos of last year's most impressive creations. Included are
>instructions on how to make your own crop circles. Farmers'
>reactions to having their fields turned into UFO landing pads

Ah, knowing more than a few farmers, and having been a farmer's
son, why hasn't any of  said Circulist's been reported  with oh,
say dog-bites, if the Brits are like any other farmers, there
are more than a  dog on the property - as in several. We had
three or four including a Chiuauia/Wirehair mix that had the
courage of a lion and the size of a Chiuaua.

Why hadn't any of these guys had at least their Levis  gnawed by
farm dogs. If not a little rock salt or bird shot. Also, who are
aware of comlpcated Madelbrot sets that can do them in one
night, with perfection? Or nearly so?

Just asking.

-GT MCoy.







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 13

                      Blather: Foolishness and Codology

From: Blather - Daev Walsh <daev@blather.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:12:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:05:40 -0400
Subject: Blather: Foolishness and Codology

______________________________________________________
B  L  A  T  H  E  R

p a r a n o r m a l   p r o v o c a t e u r i s m

By Dave (daev) Walsh daev@blather.net
Web: http://www.blather.net
_______________________________________________________
March 31st 1999, Dublin, Ireland   Vol 2. No. 40
_______________________________________________________

Lily O'Briens is a manufacturer of premium handmade chocolates
located in the heart of County Kildare in the Emerald Green
Island of Ireland. Surf along to their website and feast your
eyes - and order via our secure server!

http://www.lilyobriens.ie/
______________________________________________________

Unicorn Jones is the new band comprising David Banks, John Beck
and Dick Nolan. Check out their album *A Hundred Thousand
Million Stars* at

http://www.unicornjones.com/

______________________________________________________


Foolishness and Codology

'A country without village idiots is not worth living in.
Without them there is no way of knowing who are sane.' - Oliver
St. Gogarty, *As I Was Going Down Sackville St.*


[The 2nd Festival of Fools took place in Dublin recently, along
with some other unsynchronised idiocy in New York and Belfast.
We now join our hominid on the scene, The Mostly Revered Count
Hellshaw Zorro O'Blather I, by live telegram link-up -
transcending time, space and several by-laws to the scene of the
crime:]


'Sounds like the most serious, intrepid and desperate act in
Dublin since the Holy Order of the Lemon filled the River Liffey
with lemons a few years ago...' Robert Anton Wilson on The
Festival of Fools 1999


T'was a warm and pleasant spring afternoon - 5pm on Tuesday,
March 29th 1999, when the Count O'Blather, resplendent in his
motoring leathers, clerical collar and wide-brimmed hat, loped
up Dublin's South William St. towards The Castle Lounge, more
commonly known as Grogan's. On nearing the lounge doorway, he
caught site of the handsomely aquiline features and lengthy gait
of Smolian rounding the corner. The two exchanged greetings,
threats and irrelevant unpleasantries before ducking inside the
tavern.

Inside was an cheery chaotic morass - amidst the ancient wood
panelling adorned with contemporary art, were all manner of
craythur, some bedecked in absurd finery, others content in
laundered mufti. It wasn't often that Grogan's - arguably the
last bastion of licensed sanity amidst the bourgeois hoi polloi
and theme-pub culture of the turbulent city - was so tumescent
with imbibers so early on a Tuesday... most of those present
however, had an inkling of the reason for this borderline
paranormal phenomenon.

On the street outside, the Bishop of Fools and the Abbot of
Unreason cavorted for bemused press photographers, whilst those
exemplary mummers, Ridiculusmus, noosed themselves together,
taped up their gobs, and silently abused passers-by. Things were
coming to a head.

The head of St. Flann that is. The mottled crew had assembled to
spark off the annual celebration known *The Festival of Fools*
(*F=E9ile Na nAmaidi*) - 'An arts and entertainment festival for
the King of Unrule'. The First King and Patron Saint of the
Festival of Fools is the long deceased but since transcended
Dublin writer, wit and drinker, Flann O'Brien/Myles na
gCopaleen/Brian O'Nolan - referred to herein as Flann. Flann,
who died on, significantly, April 1st 1966, also has the dubious
honour of influencing this writer when choosing a moniker for
this irregular diatribe of paranormal rambles.

'The Festival of Fools (FoF) came to life, during a
conflagration between the Abbot and the Bishop, one soaking wet
September evening in 1997. Initially, they sought to host a
festival that would honour Flann O'Brien for whom there was as
yet no public commemoration. They wanted to have a Foolsday that
would rival Joyce's Bloomsday. But the fool wanted more.' - FoF
website

As matters haphazardly got underway, a strange ritualistic train
of presentations took place *behind* the bar of Grogan's. Eilish
Rafferty of the Dublin Writers' Museum presented the Head of the
first King and Patron Saint of the Festival, Myles na Gopaleen,
to Tommy Smith - proprietor of Grogan's Bar & Gallery. He
presented the Head to the sculptor of the Head, Victor
McCaughan, who then presented the Head to the Abbot of Unreason
and the Bishop of Fools, a questionable act which launched the
Festival of Fools 1999. There have been reports implicating a
transvestite Oinseach in the chain of presentation, but these
heinious claims are, whilst true, probably unfounded.

Taking a brief sojourn from the Guinness fumes of Grogan's, many
fools plied themselves with drink in the evening sunshine, many
accosting yet more innocent passers-by, while others engaged in
cogno-intellectual discussions with a fine-looking canine named
Pepper, only occasionally interrupted by the horn-blowing of the
Jester, a curmudgeonly specimen with an exquisite pair of ears,
the likes of which are rarely seen outside the works of Arthur
Rackham or Gene Roddenberry.

Sometime in the region of 6:30pm, a noisy procession of
gobshites, made up of the Bishop of Fools, the Abbot of
Unreason, the Oinseach, The Whirling Dervish, the Chief Rabbi,
Anubis and other notable Amad=E1ns stumbled across the road to the
Dublin Civic Museum, whereupon all were ritually frisked and
harassed by the voluntarily mute Ridiculusmus, with many a pert
buttock being grasped firmly by warm hands. At this stage,
several passers-by of the touristic persuasion were manhandled
through the door and subjected to strip-searches and mandatory
consumption of Jameson's Whiskey, including an acquaintance of
the Reverend Count, Princess Z of Spain. Candidates then
ascended the ornate staircase, pausing on the first landing
where they were made to prostrate themselves before the
aforementioned effigy of Saint #1. Inside the grand-big room
inside, the geeks paid homage (out of the corner of their pineal
glands) to the battered head of Horatio Nelson, a vital
component of the failed Irish space project of 1966.

All fools in attendance managed to reach a plateau of
gobdawness, and were subjected to several renowned l=FAdram=E1ns on
the subjects of foolosophy, foolore and idiotology. Peter
Costello (occasional Fortean Times contributor, lake monster
research, historian and author) ranted out some of Myles the
Jester's work translations of the rants of Mad Sweeny - King of
Dal Araidhe, cursed by Saint Ronan:

My curse is on Sweeny!
His guilt against me is immense,
he pierced with his long javelin
my holy bell.

The holy bell that thou hast outraged
will banish thee to branches
it will put thee on a par with fowls-
the saint-bell of saints of sainty-saints

Just as it went prestissimo
the spear-shaft skywards,
you too Sweeny, go madly go-gone
skyward

Eorann of Conn tried to hold him
by a hold of his smock
and though I bless her therefore
my curse is on Sweeny

When the Sweeny rants were done with, and the massive fire that
had broken out at the back of the hall - 'Tine!', the Jester
weakly yodeled - Costello was finally relieved by the formidable
Patrick Healy - a man who has the frightening distinction of
having recorded a spoken-word version of Joyce's *Finnegans
Wake*.

There was no stopping our man Healy - the sheer brilliance of
unrepeatable performance, as he plucked ripe ideas and colourful
metaphors from the orgone-laden ether, will surely be retained
in oral tradition for posterity. We would not dare sully his
fine speech with a mere commission to print. It was all about
the finery of foolishness, and let's leave it at that.

A gentleman, the name of whom presently escapes us, then took
took the stand, and gave forth, in a most endearing fashion, on
the tradition of the Tarot Fool - an archetype with which far
more folk should pay attention to (or pretend to ignore). With
this, an unholy thirst came upon the army of idiots. Having
signed the roll-book - enabling acquisitions of postal degrees
in (we think) Foolosophy, Eekonomicks and Arkiteckture from the
Polyversity of Foolosophy and Codology all repaired to Grogan's
holding aloft their newly printed (it was still wet) Filthy
Lucre - official currency of the FoF. More pints of Ardilaun
were disposed of, while pigmeat and cheese-toasted effigies of
the snack invented by the Earl of Sandwich (which he consumed
during marathon card-playing sessions) were munched.

Despite the transatlantic banana wars raging in the real world,
the decadent fools shared out bananas, and other fruits, whilst
hard-boiled hen's eggs were secreted in fob pockets for later
examination.

Outside, the clatter of tiny hooves on cobblestones signalled
the arrival of Messrs. O'Hog=E1in and Breathnach to speak about
more traditional foolishness... a flock of Spanish students were
kidnapped and forced inside the Civic Museum, whilst various
inebriated regulars ran riot round the rotunda of the lecture
hall, resulting in a ritual beating doled out by the normally
peaceable jester...

In a state of exhausted buffoonery, the fools eventually lurched
home...

On April 1st, the Count O'Blather was suspiciously absent from
proceedings, due to some surgical shenanigans, but we are lead
to believe that a parade rolled downhill from the The Garden of
Remembrance, Parnell Square, along O'Connell St., through
College Green, and up Grafton St., finally coming to a creaking
halt at Harry St.

'Foolsday itself blasts off with an extreme sporting event - the
Carnival of Amad=E1ns. Finn Rowley, the King of Unrule, will lead
a gang of fools, songsters, jugglers, jokers, stiltwalkers,
fireaters, and daft participants in a jocund, rollicking dance
through Dublin. Fools through the ages and from many cultures
will represent their own particular brand of idiocy and engage
the public in an awesome free-for-all'. (FoF website)

Here the proceedings declined into a 'Seismic Slam', where, as
the website proposed: 'All those who durst claim to be poets,
you are deemed so only if you can survive an explosive
afternoon, in the traditions of nonsense, humour and
improvisation that should leave you proud to be called a fool.'

We are pleased to announce that the Mostly Rev. Comte struggled
free of his manacles, eluded his keepers, and threw off his
pyjamas in time to catch the 'Election and Sacrifice' at 9:00pm
on April Fool's Day, when the King had her head lopped off to a
standing ovation (no-one had the foresight of bringing
deck-chairs) from the waving and beering populace, and a New
King of Unrule was levered into office. We are not so pleased,
however, by the gargantuan cleaning bills received at *this*
office, due to the impressive bloodstains acquired by the Count
while performing his journalistic endeavours.

Praise Flann


NOTA=CD

Codology - the practice of codding, fooling

Cod - hoax, joke, lie, humbug

- usage - 'Are you codding me or what?'

Oinseach - (Own-shock) a fool, usually referring to a foolish
woman, but can be applied to the male of the species

Craythur - 'creature' - a person, often used as a term of
affection or pity

Tine - (t-na) gaelic for fire


Grogan's Pub
http://www.groganspub.com

The Festival of Fools
http://www.groganspub.com/fools99.html

Flann O'Brien - The No-Bicycle Page
http://www.hellshaw.com/flann/index.html

How Blather got its name
http://www.blather.net/archives2/issue2no33.html

Robert Anton Wilson
http://www.rawilson.com

The Holy Order of the Lemon
http://www.hellshaw.com/lemon/

Dyoublong: Joyce and Bloomsday
http://www.ireland.com/entertainment/literature/bloomsday/



IRISH UFO UPDATE

Following our recent reportage on a couple of Irish UFO
sightings, a few theories have come to light. With regard to the
the fireball seen by Edel Chadwick, a rather nameless
representative of the *European Gravitational Scientific
Research Systems* was in touch, to posit the theory that what
had been witnessed was in fact a reflection from an Iridium
satellite...

The correspondant was evidently unaware that we had covered the
possibility of Iridum flares, in light of a different matter, in
an earlier issue (*Big Lights Out West*, February 12th 1999). We
say this as they recommended checking out the same website that
we referenced in that earlier issue, the *German Space
Operations Center*. The correspondant said that they were
surprised that 'Astronomy Ireland didn`t mention to you that it
could have been an Iridium Flare'. Well, considering one of the
witnesses was David Moore, a well-known astronomer and editor of
*Astronomy & Space* magazine, we trust he was able to decide on
the nature of his sighting.

In addition - and we're happily open to correction on this
matter - the time of the sightings by Edel Chadwick and David
Moore were reported at 23:30 and 22:50, respectively, on March
6th. Going by our reasonably regular monitoring of Iridium
forecasts, it would seem that satellites are only visible in
Ireland from between around 0500 until 0800 GMT and later on
from 1700 until 2000 GMT, apparently ruling out any possibility
of sightings later in the night. *We may be wrong*.

If any of the readership haven't a foggiest about what an
Iridium satellite is, check out the aforementioned earlier
Blather at http://www.blather.net/archives2/issue2no37.html

As for the second reported UFO, preceding the Dublin fireworks
show on March 13th, Andrew Shiel offers a theory with which we
would be happy align ourselves - a runway children's helium
balloon, reflecting light from below, and drifting in the wind.
Those that were on sale were apparently silver in colour...

Astronomy Ireland
http://www.astronomy.ie

German Space Operations Centre Satellite Predictions
http://www.gsoc.dlr.de/satvis/


BABALON ONLINE
With the very recent re-launch of hellshaw.com (a.k.a the site
formerly known as *The Rev. Hellshaw's Pearly Gates*), a site
incorporating the *Flann O'Brien No-Bicycle Page*, *The Holy
Order of the Lemon* and some of the work of the late Tarot
scholar James Reeducks, we are proud to inform the readership of
the online publication of an excerpt from Barry Kavanagh's *The
Babalon Working*, a play based on the rituals performed by Jack
Parsons and L. Ron Hubbard in 1946.

http://www.hellshaw.com/barry/babalon.html

This subject was touched on briefly in an earlier Blather, *Hellfire
and Harlots*:
http://www.blather.net/archives2/issue2no26.html


Dave (daev) Walsh
April 13th 1999

Dave (daev) Walsh
31st March 1999
daev@blather.net

______________________________________________________
FATE Magazine: True Reports of the Strange and Unknown
Reporting on UFOs, psychic phenomena, ghosts and hauntings,
mystery animals, and other mystical experiences since 1948.
To subscribe, call 1-800-728-2730 (U.S.) or visit
http://www.fatemag.com
______________________________________________________

SPONSORSHIP:
While Blather will always remain free to the subscriber, we're
always willing to talk to interested parties with regard to
sponsorship.
Contact: daev@blather.net
_______________________________________________________

For the Blather archives, please go to:
http://www.blather.net/archives/index.html

_______________________________________________________


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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 13

                               Re: ETH And ORH

From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:35:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:37:45 -0400
Subject: Re: ETH And ORH


>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:47:46 +0100
>Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:17:08 -0400
>Subject: Re: ETH And ORH

Hi Roy

>My colleague has also caught a rather interseting object sitting
>over an airbase in Oxfordshire, only last week. He went there to
>see the B2-bombers take-off for Serbia.

Who was it that took the video?

>This tape is being looked at on Sunday by a person who is well
>versed in Analysis of such video, and subsequently we will be
>waiting on his opinion as to what is on the tape.

Who is analysing the video?

Whatever the outcome of the video analysis, wouldn't it be wise
to get a further  independant analysis, so that 'opinion'
doesn't interfere with objectivity?

>Quite clearly the tape shows a circular shaped disc. This
>footage was taken in daylight.

Sounds interesting.

>I will also keep the list updated with any progress
>this video makes.

Have you had the result of the video analysis?

Tony





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 13

                   Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:16:01 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:53:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?


At 23.44 09/04/99 -0400, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote:

>Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 08:26:19 +0100
>Subject: Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:41:22 +0200
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it>
>>Subject: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?

>After reading the report here that the AA cameraman "Jack" was
>dead, I contacted Ray Santilli about it.

>He categorically denies it and says that Jack is in good
>health.

QED!

I told:

>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:41:22 +0200
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it>
>Subject: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?

<snip>

>I was also informed that "those in the know" would promptly and
>firmly deny that, if asked.

Ray Santilli claims J.B. is not dead.

Can he demonstrate that?

I guess he won't and we'll have to keep faith in Ray's words
only, once again.

As of now, both versions may well be true.

Be J.B. dead or alive, we simply have no sure way to check it.

Just like we've never had any sure way to check whether he
really existed or not, after all.

Regards



Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it





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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 13

                        Re: HOT GOSSIP UK - April '99

From: Gerogina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:35:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:11:03 -0400
Subject: Re: HOT GOSSIP UK - April '99

HOT GOSSIP UK
NICK  POPE'S  WEIRD  WORLD

Hello, and welcome to April's column, where I round up the news,
and tell you what's hot and what's not from the world of ufology
and the paranormal.

Independent UFO Network

The Independent UFO Network (IUN) has been relaunched after an
absence of some years, and this promises to be an interesting
development for British ufology.  There are some good people
involved with the project, such as David Clarke, whose
investigation of an incident that occurred on 24 March 1997
(which some people claim involved an object crashing in South
Yorkshire) is an example of how good, methodical UFO
investigations should be done.  However, one or two of those
involved struck me as being slightly out of place in an
organisation that is being launched amidst claims that it will
offer an honest and rational perspective.  Last year, at a TV
show, one of these people openly jeered at an abductee I was
talking to, and made fun of his story; and there are question
marks over the attitude that this individual and another of
those involved take towards witness confidentiality.  The issue
of witness confidentiality will be the acid test so far as the
IUN is concerned: if members know or suspect somebody has had an
anomalous experience of some kind, but also know that this
person doesn't want to talk about it, will anyone involved in
the IUN speculate about the identity of the witness in public?
If so, they would have no place in an organisation that purports
to be a positive force in ufology.  I give the IUN a cautious
welcome, but in view of these concerns will be keeping a
watchful eye on their activities and pronouncements.  I'll keep
you posted.


Starsigns

There's an old joke that if you want to annoy astronomer Patrick
Moore you ask him whether it's going to be a good year for
Virgos.  But now even the TV Times (6-12 March issue) has
committed the cardinal sin of referring to The Sky at Night as
an astrology series!  Whoops.


Royal Aeronautical Society Lecture

On 23rd February I gave a lecture to the Fleet Air Arm branch of
the Royal Aeronautical Society.  The lecture took place at the
Fleet Air Arm Museum, adjacent to Royal Naval Air Station
Yeovilton, and was entitled The Government and UFOs - Official
MOD Investigations. I talked about official attitudes to the UFO
phenomenon, and the policy pursued over the years by the RAF,
the Air Ministry and the Ministry of Defence.  I also discussed
some cases that I'd investigated during my stint in Sec(AS)2a.
Needless to say, the talk concentrated on radar/visual cases and
sightings with military witnesses.  Most of the audience were
naval personnel from the base, while the rest were from various
aerospace companies, mainly Westlands.  It was a rare
opportunity to bring the UFO subject to a predominantly military
and ex-military audience, and although I've dropped out of the
ufological lecture circuit, I'm taking every opportunity to
bring home to those within the world of officialdom the fact
that the UFO phenomenon - whatever it may be - raises some
important defence and national security issues.


The Contact Has Begun

I've just finished reading an extraordinary little book about
alien contact.  Entitled The Contact Has Begun, it's written by
Phillip H. Krapf, and published by Hay House.  The story itself
is a bizarre account of contact with alien beings called
Verdants, who are going to make open contact soon, with the aim
of bringing Earth into the "intergalactic Federation of
Sovereign Planets", using a series of human ambassadors to
smooth the way.  Well, I've heard this sort of stuff a million
times before, but what makes this interesting is that Krapf
spent the last 25 years of his career as a journalist on the
Metro desk at the Los Angeles Times.  Check out www.hayhouse.com
for more information and order details.


Asteroids

I'm an Associate Member of Spaceguard UK, a lobby group aimed at
raising awareness about the danger posed to the Earth by comets
and asteroids.  I was pleased to see that on 3 March there was a
(long overdue) debate on the subject in Parliament, where the
matter was raised by MP Lembit Opik.  This tied-in nicely with a
documentary on BBC 2's acclaimed science series Horizon,
screened on 18 March.


Underground Bases

One mention of the phrase "underground facility", and all sorts
of lunatics come out of the woodwork.  People think there's
something sinister about them, even though the military have
long recognised that such facilities are possibly the best way
to protect personnel and equipment in the face of an attack.
It's simple common sense really, and yet the whole subject still
inspires the sort of paranoid, delusional rambling that gives
ufology a bad name.  To get the real story, check out Secret
Underground Cities, written by Nick McCamley and published by
Leo Cooper.


Blast From The Past

This month's blast from the past quote comes from John Fuller's
classic book, The Interrupted Journey.  The book tells the story
of the experiences of Betty and Barney Hill, whose 1961
encounter was the first widely publicised account of what came
to be known as an alien abduction experience.  The quote comes
from one of Barney's hypnotic regression sessions with Dr
Benjamin Simon:

"I didn't think of anything.  I didn't think of the man in the
sky in the machine that I saw.  I just saw these eyes, and I
closed mine."


Alien Investigator

Tony Dodd is one of the UK's best known ufologists, and has been
researching and investigating the subject for many years.  Tony
is a former sergeant with the North Yorkshire police force, and
has had a spectacular UFO encounter himself, in 1978.  Now, he's
written an account of his experiences, detailing his own
encounters, and some of the cases that he's looked at, over the
years.  Alien Investigator is published by Headline, and is an
interesting read.  I have to say that I have my doubts about
some of the information passed to Tony by his sources, and
disagree with some of his conclusions.  Notwithstanding this,
Tony is one of the good guys in ufology - a good-natured and
honest man who calls things as he sees them.  His book is well
worth a read.


Operation Thunder Child

A lot of people have been asking about my next project, and a
few others have been giving their opinions without having a clue
what the book's about.  In fact, I've signed a two book deal
with Simon & Schuster and will be turning my attention to
fiction for the time being.  The books are part techno-thriller,
part science fiction, and tell the story of a national crisis in
which the Royal Air Force and the Ministry of Defence try to
come to terms with a mysterious and hostile force which is
launching devastating attacks on the United Kingdom.  It
combines my knowledge about UFOs with experience of crisis
management which I gained in the Joint Operations Centre during
the Gulf War.  The first novel is called Operation Thunder
Child, and will be published in October this year.  The second
is as yet untitled, and is currently scheduled to be published
in Autumn next year.  There have been one or two sarcastic
comments from people implying that this departure into fiction
somehow means that my non-fiction books can no longer be taken
seriously.  I find this a bizarre and totally illogical view.  A
number of former SAS soldiers have done exactly the same thing,
and after writing non-fiction have gone on to write thrillers
drawing upon their military experience.  These books are written
by insiders who, whether they're writing about technical details
or tactics, certainly know their stuff.  I'm trying to do the
same.  I've read a lot of thrillers where the authors tell a
good story, but are let down by lack of knowledge about the way
in which governments actually respond to a crisis.  In drawing
upon official knowledge and experience I'll be able to inject
some realism into the books, and give readers what amounts to a
seat at the Top Table in the Ministry of Defence, as the crisis
unfolds.  And as it's fiction, I'll be able to speculate on
areas which could never have appeared in Open Skies, Closed
Minds or The Uninvited.  A lot of people are getting distinctly
nervous about Operation Thunder Child, and I get the impression
that my life will be getting quite interesting over the next few
months, in the run-up to publication.  I'll keep you posted.


The Final Frontier

Scientific American have produced an excellent publication,
available now from newsagents, and entitled The Future of Space
Exploration. It's packed with interesting articles on space
missions, some underway, some scheduled to begin shortly, and
some which are just ideas at present.  The final page lists
thirty space-related websites, covering everything from
astronaut biographies to the latest Hubble Space Telescope
photographs.


Implants

It's long been claimed that some abductees are fitted with
implants, designed perhaps to control their actions, or track
their movements. American ufologist Derrel Sims is best known
for these claims, and Whitley Strieber has also covered them in
his latest book, Confirmation.  Now a new book claims to shed
some light on the mystery.  It's written by Dr Roger Leir, and
entitled The Aliens and the Scalpel.  The publishers are Granite
Publishing.  Leir is a medical professional and a member of the
Mutual UFO Network, and has surgically recovered implants from a
number of abductees.  Whether they are of extraterrestrial
origin is, of course, another matter, as all sorts of foreign
bodies can enter the body through wounds.  Furthermore,
fragments of bone or pieces of hardened tissue can also find
their way to a position just underneath the skin.  Although I
haven't read this book yet, it's clearly one that should be read
by anybody with an interest in the alien abduction phenomenon.


By The Right, Quick March

The fact that one of ufology's loudest characters used to be a
member of the extreme right wing British National Party is old
news, but is a story that won't go away, even though I'm sure
the individual concerned is doubtless wishing it would.  The
individual concerned claims that he only joined the organisation
to expose their violent and racist views, and that he is in fact
a left-winger.  Other people have told me that this denial is
rubbish, and a predictable attempt to disassociate him from an
embarrassing past which has resulted in him having changed his
name.  Although this controversy has been around for some time,
it's recently resurfaced, and some very specific claims have
suddenly appeared.  I have been sent a bulky dossier which goes
into even more detail, but have refrained from circulating the
material for the time being, because we should always give
people the benefit of the doubt and treat them as innocent until
proven otherwise.  Furthermore, although there can clearly be no
place in ufology for those who actively preach the politics of
hate, what if somebody who used to hold nazi views subsequently
changed his mind?  In this situation, should we perhaps accept
that this matter belongs in the past, and forgive his previous
sins?  It's a difficult issue, and raises issues about whether
researchers and investigators should "police" ufology,
ostracising those whose views or behaviour goes beyond the pale.
I'll keep you posted.


Moonshine

Newly published is a book which will doubtless be lapped up by
conspiracy theorists.  Dark Moon by Mary Bennett and David Percy
examines in detail the claims that NASA hoaxed the 1969 Apollo
moon landing.  The book covers a lot of ground, from the mystery
surrounding the Sphinx, to the controversy over the so-called
Face on Mars.  The authors even manage to bring in Roswell.  I
confess to being extremely sceptical about claims such as these.
There are certainly some anomalies in the official films and
photographs of the moon landings, but it's likely that this is
due to nothing more sinister than NASA retouching some of the
images, so that the demanding press and public had something
impressive to look at.  This enhancement is hardly a crime, and
certainly doesn't mean the mission took place in a TV studio.
Issue 97 of Fortean Times contains an excellent article
refuting, point by point, the arguments that had previously
(Issue 94) been put forward by David Percy.  All this puts me in
mind of one of the most amusing pieces of television I've ever
seen, when Matthew Williams was invited onto Channel 4's The Big
Breakfast, and allowed to trot out all the usual nonsense about
how the moon landings were faked.  He was midway through a
nervous and rambling summary of other people's research when a
caption was put up, telling viewers that what Williams didn't
know was that Buzz Aldrin, the second man on the moon, was in
the next room!  How the presenter managed to keep a straight
face, I'll never know. Aldrin was duly brought on, and I'll
never forget the look on little Matty's face as long as I live,
as he was totally and utterly humiliated on live national
television.  He doubtless wished that the ground would open and
swallow him up.  I was hoping that Aldrin would press the point,
look Williams in the eye, and simply ask if he was calling him a
liar.  Given that Aldrin had put his life on the line to fly
what was certainly a dangerous mission, he could have been
excused for being somewhat aggrieved at anybody who suggested
he'd lied about the whole thing, and had never been.  But he was
the perfect gentleman, and didn't push the point.  Nonetheless,
it was game, set and match to Aldrin, and a total disaster for
conspiracy theorists.  How I laughed!


The Unconvention

Talking about Fortean Times, their annual conference, The
Unconvention, will be held in London on 24/25 April - details at
www.forteantimes.com.


Mars Attacks

The controversy surrounding ALH84001 (the Martian meteorite that
NASA scientists believe contains fossilised traces of bacteria
that originated on the Red Planet) continues, and there's been
an interesting new development.  Dr Andrew Steele, a British
scientist working with the NASA team studying the meteorite, has
discovered living bacteria within the meteorite.  Before you get
too excited, I should say that these are decidedly terrestrial
micro-organisms.  But the fact is that they've been feeding on
the meteorite's organic carbon molecules, formed in an era when
Mars almost certainly had running water on its surface.  The
fact that the bacteria can thrive off Martian rock is compelling
evidence that life is not some unique miracle that can only
exist here on Earth, but something that can exist in all sorts
of different environments.  We are not alone.

Ed's Note:

Nick Pope's two books, Open Skies, Closed Minds and The
Uninvited,  are available from all good bookshops.  Simon &
Schuster are his UK publishers, while The Overlook Press publish
his books in America.

Permission to distribute this information on the Internet is
granted providing the authors and Hot Gossip UK are credited.
Photographs may be copyright, and cannot be published without
permission. Hot Gossip UK - www.hotgossip.co.uk

Georgina Bruni -Editor in Chief

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
E-mail: georgina@easynet.co.uk
E-mail: 104707.336@compuserve.com
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
HOT GOSSIP UK
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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 13

                        Re: HOT GOSSIP UK - April '99

From: Gerogina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:35:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:55:18 -0400
Subject: Re: HOT GOSSIP UK - April '99

HOT GOSSIP UK
NICK  POPE'S  WEIRD  WORLD

Hello, and welcome to April's column, where I round up the news,
and tell you what's hot and what's not from the world of ufology
and the paranormal.

Independent UFO Network

The Independent UFO Network (IUN) has been relaunched after an
absence of some years, and this promises to be an interesting
development for British ufology.  There are some good people
involved with the project, such as David Clarke, whose
investigation of an incident that occurred on 24 March 1997
(which some people claim involved an object crashing in South
Yorkshire) is an example of how good, methodical UFO
investigations should be done.  However, one or two of those
involved struck me as being slightly out of place in an
organisation that is being launched amidst claims that it will
offer an honest and rational perspective.  Last year, at a TV
show, one of these people openly jeered at an abductee I was
talking to, and made fun of his story; and there are question
marks over the attitude that this individual and another of
those involved take towards witness confidentiality.  The issue
of witness confidentiality will be the acid test so far as the
IUN is concerned: if members know or suspect somebody has had an
anomalous experience of some kind, but also know that this
person doesn't want to talk about it, will anyone involved in
the IUN speculate about the identity of the witness in public?
If so, they would have no place in an organisation that purports
to be a positive force in ufology.  I give the IUN a cautious
welcome, but in view of these concerns will be keeping a
watchful eye on their activities and pronouncements.  I'll keep
you posted.


Starsigns

There's an old joke that if you want to annoy astronomer Patrick
Moore you ask him whether it's going to be a good year for
Virgos.  But now even the TV Times (6-12 March issue) has
committed the cardinal sin of referring to The Sky at Night as
an astrology series!  Whoops.


Royal Aeronautical Society Lecture

On 23rd February I gave a lecture to the Fleet Air Arm branch of
the Royal Aeronautical Society.  The lecture took place at the
Fleet Air Arm Museum, adjacent to Royal Naval Air Station
Yeovilton, and was entitled The Government and UFOs - Official
MOD Investigations. I talked about official attitudes to the UFO
phenomenon, and the policy pursued over the years by the RAF,
the Air Ministry and the Ministry of Defence.  I also discussed
some cases that I'd investigated during my stint in Sec(AS)2a.
Needless to say, the talk concentrated on radar/visual cases and
sightings with military witnesses.  Most of the audience were
naval personnel from the base, while the rest were from various
aerospace companies, mainly Westlands.  It was a rare
opportunity to bring the UFO subject to a predominantly military
and ex-military audience, and although I've dropped out of the
ufological lecture circuit, I'm taking every opportunity to
bring home to those within the world of officialdom the fact
that the UFO phenomenon - whatever it may be - raises some
important defence and national security issues.


The Contact Has Begun

I've just finished reading an extraordinary little book about
alien contact.  Entitled The Contact Has Begun, it's written by
Phillip H. Krapf, and published by Hay House.  The story itself
is a bizarre account of contact with alien beings called
Verdants, who are going to make open contact soon, with the aim
of bringing Earth into the "intergalactic Federation of
Sovereign Planets", using a series of human ambassadors to
smooth the way.  Well, I've heard this sort of stuff a million
times before, but what makes this interesting is that Krapf
spent the last 25 years of his career as a journalist on the
Metro desk at the Los Angeles Times.  Check out www.hayhouse.com
for more information and order details.


Asteroids

I'm an Associate Member of Spaceguard UK, a lobby group aimed at
raising awareness about the danger posed to the Earth by comets
and asteroids.  I was pleased to see that on 3 March there was a
(long overdue) debate on the subject in Parliament, where the
matter was raised by MP Lembit Opik.  This tied-in nicely with a
documentary on BBC 2's acclaimed science series Horizon,
screened on 18 March.


Underground Bases

One mention of the phrase "underground facility", and all sorts
of lunatics come out of the woodwork.  People think there's
something sinister about them, even though the military have
long recognised that such facilities are possibly the best way
to protect personnel and equipment in the face of an attack.
It's simple common sense really, and yet the whole subject still
inspires the sort of paranoid, delusional rambling that gives
ufology a bad name.  To get the real story, check out Secret
Underground Cities, written by Nick McCamley and published by
Leo Cooper.


Blast From The Past

This month's blast from the past quote comes from John Fuller's
classic book, The Interrupted Journey.  The book tells the story
of the experiences of Betty and Barney Hill, whose 1961
encounter was the first widely publicised account of what came
to be known as an alien abduction experience.  The quote comes
from one of Barney's hypnotic regression sessions with Dr
Benjamin Simon:

"I didn't think of anything.  I didn't think of the man in the
sky in the machine that I saw.  I just saw these eyes, and I
closed mine."


Alien Investigator

Tony Dodd is one of the UK's best known ufologists, and has been
researching and investigating the subject for many years.  Tony
is a former sergeant with the North Yorkshire police force, and
has had a spectacular UFO encounter himself, in 1978.  Now, he's
written an account of his experiences, detailing his own
encounters, and some of the cases that he's looked at, over the
years.  Alien Investigator is published by Headline, and is an
interesting read.  I have to say that I have my doubts about
some of the information passed to Tony by his sources, and
disagree with some of his conclusions.  Notwithstanding this,
Tony is one of the good guys in ufology - a good-natured and
honest man who calls things as he sees them.  His book is well
worth a read.


Operation Thunder Child

A lot of people have been asking about my next project, and a
few others have been giving their opinions without having a clue
what the book's about.  In fact, I've signed a two book deal
with Simon & Schuster and will be turning my attention to
fiction for the time being.  The books are part techno-thriller,
part science fiction, and tell the story of a national crisis in
which the Royal Air Force and the Ministry of Defence try to
come to terms with a mysterious and hostile force which is
launching devastating attacks on the United Kingdom.  It
combines my knowledge about UFOs with experience of crisis
management which I gained in the Joint Operations Centre during
the Gulf War.  The first novel is called Operation Thunder
Child, and will be published in October this year.  The second
is as yet untitled, and is currently scheduled to be published
in Autumn next year.  There have been one or two sarcastic
comments from people implying that this departure into fiction
somehow means that my non-fiction books can no longer be taken
seriously.  I find this a bizarre and totally illogical view.  A
number of former SAS soldiers have done exactly the same thing,
and after writing non-fiction have gone on to write thrillers
drawing upon their military experience.  These books are written
by insiders who, whether they're writing about technical details
or tactics, certainly know their stuff.  I'm trying to do the
same.  I've read a lot of thrillers where the authors tell a
good story, but are let down by lack of knowledge about the way
in which governments actually respond to a crisis.  In drawing
upon official knowledge and experience I'll be able to inject
some realism into the books, and give readers what amounts to a
seat at the Top Table in the Ministry of Defence, as the crisis
unfolds.  And as it's fiction, I'll be able to speculate on
areas which could never have appeared in Open Skies, Closed
Minds or The Uninvited.  A lot of people are getting distinctly
nervous about Operation Thunder Child, and I get the impression
that my life will be getting quite interesting over the next few
months, in the run-up to publication.  I'll keep you posted.


The Final Frontier

Scientific American have produced an excellent publication,
available now from newsagents, and entitled The Future of Space
Exploration. It's packed with interesting articles on space
missions, some underway, some scheduled to begin shortly, and
some which are just ideas at present.  The final page lists
thirty space-related websites, covering everything from
astronaut biographies to the latest Hubble Space Telescope
photographs.


Implants

It's long been claimed that some abductees are fitted with
implants, designed perhaps to control their actions, or track
their movements. American ufologist Derrel Sims is best known
for these claims, and Whitley Strieber has also covered them in
his latest book, Confirmation.  Now a new book claims to shed
some light on the mystery.  It's written by Dr Roger Leir, and
entitled The Aliens and the Scalpel.  The publishers are Granite
Publishing.  Leir is a medical professional and a member of the
Mutual UFO Network, and has surgically recovered implants from a
number of abductees.  Whether they are of extraterrestrial
origin is, of course, another matter, as all sorts of foreign
bodies can enter the body through wounds.  Furthermore,
fragments of bone or pieces of hardened tissue can also find
their way to a position just underneath the skin.  Although I
haven't read this book yet, it's clearly one that should be read
by anybody with an interest in the alien abduction phenomenon.


By The Right, Quick March

The fact that one of ufology's loudest characters used to be a
member of the extreme right wing British National Party is old
news, but is a story that won't go away, even though I'm sure
the individual concerned is doubtless wishing it would.  The
individual concerned claims that he only joined the organisation
to expose their violent and racist views, and that he is in fact
a left-winger.  Other people have told me that this denial is
rubbish, and a predictable attempt to disassociate him from an
embarrassing past which has resulted in him having changed his
name.  Although this controversy has been around for some time,
it's recently resurfaced, and some very specific claims have
suddenly appeared.  I have been sent a bulky dossier which goes
into even more detail, but have refrained from circulating the
material for the time being, because we should always give
people the benefit of the doubt and treat them as innocent until
proven otherwise.  Furthermore, although there can clearly be no
place in ufology for those who actively preach the politics of
hate, what if somebody who used to hold nazi views subsequently
changed his mind?  In this situation, should we perhaps accept
that this matter belongs in the past, and forgive his previous
sins?  It's a difficult issue, and raises issues about whether
researchers and investigators should "police" ufology,
ostracising those whose views or behaviour goes beyond the pale.
I'll keep you posted.


Moonshine

Newly published is a book which will doubtless be lapped up by
conspiracy theorists.  Dark Moon by Mary Bennett and David Percy
examines in detail the claims that NASA hoaxed the 1969 Apollo
moon landing.  The book covers a lot of ground, from the mystery
surrounding the Sphinx, to the controversy over the so-called
Face on Mars.  The authors even manage to bring in Roswell.  I
confess to being extremely sceptical about claims such as these.
There are certainly some anomalies in the official films and
photographs of the moon landings, but it's likely that this is
due to nothing more sinister than NASA retouching some of the
images, so that the demanding press and public had something
impressive to look at.  This enhancement is hardly a crime, and
certainly doesn't mean the mission took place in a TV studio.
Issue 97 of Fortean Times contains an excellent article
refuting, point by point, the arguments that had previously
(Issue 94) been put forward by David Percy.  All this puts me in
mind of one of the most amusing pieces of television I've ever
seen, when Matthew Williams was invited onto Channel 4's The Big
Breakfast, and allowed to trot out all the usual nonsense about
how the moon landings were faked.  He was midway through a
nervous and rambling summary of other people's research when a
caption was put up, telling viewers that what Williams didn't
know was that Buzz Aldrin, the second man on the moon, was in
the next room!  How the presenter managed to keep a straight
face, I'll never know. Aldrin was duly brought on, and I'll
never forget the look on little Matty's face as long as I live,
as he was totally and utterly humiliated on live national
television.  He doubtless wished that the ground would open and
swallow him up.  I was hoping that Aldrin would press the point,
look Williams in the eye, and simply ask if he was calling him a
liar.  Given that Aldrin had put his life on the line to fly
what was certainly a dangerous mission, he could have been
excused for being somewhat aggrieved at anybody who suggested
he'd lied about the whole thing, and had never been.  But he was
the perfect gentleman, and didn't push the point.  Nonetheless,
it was game, set and match to Aldrin, and a total disaster for
conspiracy theorists.  How I laughed!


The Unconvention

Talking about Fortean Times, their annual conference, The
Unconvention, will be held in London on 24/25 April - details at
www.forteantimes.com.


Mars Attacks

The controversy surrounding ALH84001 (the Martian meteorite that
NASA scientists believe contains fossilised traces of bacteria
that originated on the Red Planet) continues, and there's been
an interesting new development.  Dr Andrew Steele, a British
scientist working with the NASA team studying the meteorite, has
discovered living bacteria within the meteorite.  Before you get
too excited, I should say that these are decidedly terrestrial
micro-organisms.  But the fact is that they've been feeding on
the meteorite's organic carbon molecules, formed in an era when
Mars almost certainly had running water on its surface.  The
fact that the bacteria can thrive off Martian rock is compelling
evidence that life is not some unique miracle that can only
exist here on Earth, but something that can exist in all sorts
of different environments.  We are not alone.

Ed's Note:

Nick Pope's two books, Open Skies, Closed Minds and The
Uninvited,  are available from all good bookshops.  Simon &
Schuster are his UK publishers, while The Overlook Press publish
his books in America.

Permission to distribute this information on the Internet is
granted providing the authors and Hot Gossip UK are credited.
Photographs may be copyright, and cannot be published without
permission. Hot Gossip UK - www.hotgossip.co.uk

Georgina Bruni -Editor in Chief

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
E-mail: georgina@easynet.co.uk
E-mail: 104707.336@compuserve.com
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HOT GOSSIP UK
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 13

                 Re: Aliens Among Us - And Other Thoughts...

From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:53:21 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:30:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Aliens Among Us - And Other Thoughts...


>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:39:11 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Aliens Among Us - And Other Thoughts...

<snip>

>Why the big secrecy about UFOs?  We may get a hint in the long
>letter Dr. Olavo T. Fontes (original investigator of the 1957
>Ubatuba UFO fragments) wrote to a friend in over 40 years ago
>where he shared many facts about the reality of UFOs and the
>reasons for the worldwide UFO coverup that were revealed to him
>by Brazilian naval intelligence officers in exchange for his
>cooperation with them.  Isn't it interesting how later books and
>dubious MJ-12 documents mirror much of what is in Dr. Fontes'
>letter?

>Although Dr. Fontes died shortly afterwards from cancer in his
>30's, I think the proof of the reality of UFOs may come from his
>Ubatuba UFO fragments which still exist and are in public hands.

>Nick Balaskas


I think you have given here very interesting information again,
after the analysis of the Ubatuba fragment.

Is it possible to have the text of the letter of Dr Fontes?
Would you have a reference (a book, or review) where I could
find it?

It looks like a very valuable document, especially since the
special nature of the Ubatuba fragments seems to be confirmed.

Regards,

Gildas Bourdais






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   Apr > Apr 13

                               Behold - Again

From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:49:22 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:05:48 -0400
Subject: Behold - Again


It's back

http://www.stephens-behold.com/index.html



Most NASA and Navy verifiers are there now.


more to post.....



-- sincerely,


Robert A.M.Stephens
NASA Documentation Program
Stillwater Mills-Aerospace
KSC-PIB/shuttle/MSF
406-745-3818
sti3818@montana.com
http://www.stephens-behold.com/index.html
http://www.nasa.gov/index.html
http://people.montana.com/~sti3818/
http://198.116.116.10/gallery/arts/samples/.html
http://www.cdfnet.com/INTERVIEWS


Dissent is my Business.
Business is Good.






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 13

                  Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...

From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:53:21 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:28:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...


>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:39:11 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Aliens Among Us - And Other Thoughts...

<snip>

>Why the big secrecy about UFOs?  We may get a hint in the long
>letter Dr. Olavo T. Fontes (original investigator of the 1957
>Ubatuba UFO fragments) wrote to a friend in over 40 years ago
>where he shared many facts about the reality of UFOs and the
>reasons for the worldwide UFO coverup that were revealed to him
>by Brazilian naval intelligence officers in exchange for his
>cooperation with them.  Isn't it interesting how later books and
>dubious MJ-12 documents mirror much of what is in Dr. Fontes'
>letter?

>Although Dr. Fontes died shortly afterwards from cancer in his
>30's, I think the proof of the reality of UFOs may come from his
>Ubatuba UFO fragments which still exist and are in public hands.

>Nick Balaskas


I think you have given here very interesting information again,
after the analysis of the Ubatuba fragment.

Is it possible to have the text of the letter of Dr Fontes?
Would you have a reference (a book, or review) where I could
find it?

It looks like a very valuable document, especially since the
special nature of the Ubatuba fragments seems to be confirmed.

Regards,

Gildas Bourdais






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 13

                          HOT GOSSIP UK - April '99

From: Gerogina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:35:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:51:09 -0400
Subject: HOT GOSSIP UK - April '99

HOT GOSSIP UK
NICK  POPE'S  WEIRD  WORLD

Hello, and welcome to April's column, where I round up the news,
and tell you what's hot and what's not from the world of ufology
and the paranormal.

Independent UFO Network

The Independent UFO Network (IUN) has been relaunched after an
absence of some years, and this promises to be an interesting
development for British ufology.  There are some good people
involved with the project, such as David Clarke, whose
investigation of an incident that occurred on 24 March 1997
(which some people claim involved an object crashing in South
Yorkshire) is an example of how good, methodical UFO
investigations should be done.  However, one or two of those
involved struck me as being slightly out of place in an
organisation that is being launched amidst claims that it will
offer an honest and rational perspective.  Last year, at a TV
show, one of these people openly jeered at an abductee I was
talking to, and made fun of his story; and there are question
marks over the attitude that this individual and another of
those involved take towards witness confidentiality.  The issue
of witness confidentiality will be the acid test so far as the
IUN is concerned: if members know or suspect somebody has had an
anomalous experience of some kind, but also know that this
person doesn't want to talk about it, will anyone involved in
the IUN speculate about the identity of the witness in public?
If so, they would have no place in an organisation that purports
to be a positive force in ufology.  I give the IUN a cautious
welcome, but in view of these concerns will be keeping a
watchful eye on their activities and pronouncements.  I'll keep
you posted.


Starsigns

There's an old joke that if you want to annoy astronomer Patrick
Moore you ask him whether it's going to be a good year for
Virgos.  But now even the TV Times (6-12 March issue) has
committed the cardinal sin of referring to The Sky at Night as
an astrology series!  Whoops.


Royal Aeronautical Society Lecture

On 23rd February I gave a lecture to the Fleet Air Arm branch of
the Royal Aeronautical Society.  The lecture took place at the
Fleet Air Arm Museum, adjacent to Royal Naval Air Station
Yeovilton, and was entitled The Government and UFOs - Official
MOD Investigations. I talked about official attitudes to the UFO
phenomenon, and the policy pursued over the years by the RAF,
the Air Ministry and the Ministry of Defence.  I also discussed
some cases that I'd investigated during my stint in Sec(AS)2a.
Needless to say, the talk concentrated on radar/visual cases and
sightings with military witnesses.  Most of the audience were
naval personnel from the base, while the rest were from various
aerospace companies, mainly Westlands.  It was a rare
opportunity to bring the UFO subject to a predominantly military
and ex-military audience, and although I've dropped out of the
ufological lecture circuit, I'm taking every opportunity to
bring home to those within the world of officialdom the fact
that the UFO phenomenon - whatever it may be - raises some
important defence and national security issues.


The Contact Has Begun

I've just finished reading an extraordinary little book about
alien contact.  Entitled The Contact Has Begun, it's written by
Phillip H. Krapf, and published by Hay House.  The story itself
is a bizarre account of contact with alien beings called
Verdants, who are going to make open contact soon, with the aim
of bringing Earth into the "intergalactic Federation of
Sovereign Planets", using a series of human ambassadors to
smooth the way.  Well, I've heard this sort of stuff a million
times before, but what makes this interesting is that Krapf
spent the last 25 years of his career as a journalist on the
Metro desk at the Los Angeles Times.  Check out www.hayhouse.com
for more information and order details.


Asteroids

I'm an Associate Member of Spaceguard UK, a lobby group aimed at
raising awareness about the danger posed to the Earth by comets
and asteroids.  I was pleased to see that on 3 March there was a
(long overdue) debate on the subject in Parliament, where the
matter was raised by MP Lembit Opik.  This tied-in nicely with a
documentary on BBC 2's acclaimed science series Horizon,
screened on 18 March.


Underground Bases

One mention of the phrase "underground facility", and all sorts
of lunatics come out of the woodwork.  People think there's
something sinister about them, even though the military have
long recognised that such facilities are possibly the best way
to protect personnel and equipment in the face of an attack.
It's simple common sense really, and yet the whole subject still
inspires the sort of paranoid, delusional rambling that gives
ufology a bad name.  To get the real story, check out Secret
Underground Cities, written by Nick McCamley and published by
Leo Cooper.


Blast From The Past

This month's blast from the past quote comes from John Fuller's
classic book, The Interrupted Journey.  The book tells the story
of the experiences of Betty and Barney Hill, whose 1961
encounter was the first widely publicised account of what came
to be known as an alien abduction experience.  The quote comes
from one of Barney's hypnotic regression sessions with Dr
Benjamin Simon:

"I didn't think of anything.  I didn't think of the man in the
sky in the machine that I saw.  I just saw these eyes, and I
closed mine."


Alien Investigator

Tony Dodd is one of the UK's best known ufologists, and has been
researching and investigating the subject for many years.  Tony
is a former sergeant with the North Yorkshire police force, and
has had a spectacular UFO encounter himself, in 1978.  Now, he's
written an account of his experiences, detailing his own
encounters, and some of the cases that he's looked at, over the
years.  Alien Investigator is published by Headline, and is an
interesting read.  I have to say that I have my doubts about
some of the information passed to Tony by his sources, and
disagree with some of his conclusions.  Notwithstanding this,
Tony is one of the good guys in ufology - a good-natured and
honest man who calls things as he sees them.  His book is well
worth a read.


Operation Thunder Child

A lot of people have been asking about my next project, and a
few others have been giving their opinions without having a clue
what the book's about.  In fact, I've signed a two book deal
with Simon & Schuster and will be turning my attention to
fiction for the time being.  The books are part techno-thriller,
part science fiction, and tell the story of a national crisis in
which the Royal Air Force and the Ministry of Defence try to
come to terms with a mysterious and hostile force which is
launching devastating attacks on the United Kingdom.  It
combines my knowledge about UFOs with experience of crisis
management which I gained in the Joint Operations Centre during
the Gulf War.  The first novel is called Operation Thunder
Child, and will be published in October this year.  The second
is as yet untitled, and is currently scheduled to be published
in Autumn next year.  There have been one or two sarcastic
comments from people implying that this departure into fiction
somehow means that my non-fiction books can no longer be taken
seriously.  I find this a bizarre and totally illogical view.  A
number of former SAS soldiers have done exactly the same thing,
and after writing non-fiction have gone on to write thrillers
drawing upon their military experience.  These books are written
by insiders who, whether they're writing about technical details
or tactics, certainly know their stuff.  I'm trying to do the
same.  I've read a lot of thrillers where the authors tell a
good story, but are let down by lack of knowledge about the way
in which governments actually respond to a crisis.  In drawing
upon official knowledge and experience I'll be able to inject
some realism into the books, and give readers what amounts to a
seat at the Top Table in the Ministry of Defence, as the crisis
unfolds.  And as it's fiction, I'll be able to speculate on
areas which could never have appeared in Open Skies, Closed
Minds or The Uninvited.  A lot of people are getting distinctly
nervous about Operation Thunder Child, and I get the impression
that my life will be getting quite interesting over the next few
months, in the run-up to publication.  I'll keep you posted.


The Final Frontier

Scientific American have produced an excellent publication,
available now from newsagents, and entitled The Future of Space
Exploration. It's packed with interesting articles on space
missions, some underway, some scheduled to begin shortly, and
some which are just ideas at present.  The final page lists
thirty space-related websites, covering everything from
astronaut biographies to the latest Hubble Space Telescope
photographs.


Implants

It's long been claimed that some abductees are fitted with
implants, designed perhaps to control their actions, or track
their movements. American ufologist Derrel Sims is best known
for these claims, and Whitley Strieber has also covered them in
his latest book, Confirmation.  Now a new book claims to shed
some light on the mystery.  It's written by Dr Roger Leir, and
entitled The Aliens and the Scalpel.  The publishers are Granite
Publishing.  Leir is a medical professional and a member of the
Mutual UFO Network, and has surgically recovered implants from a
number of abductees.  Whether they are of extraterrestrial
origin is, of course, another matter, as all sorts of foreign
bodies can enter the body through wounds.  Furthermore,
fragments of bone or pieces of hardened tissue can also find
their way to a position just underneath the skin.  Although I
haven't read this book yet, it's clearly one that should be read
by anybody with an interest in the alien abduction phenomenon.


By The Right, Quick March

The fact that one of ufology's loudest characters used to be a
member of the extreme right wing British National Party is old
news, but is a story that won't go away, even though I'm sure
the individual concerned is doubtless wishing it would.  The
individual concerned claims that he only joined the organisation
to expose their violent and racist views, and that he is in fact
a left-winger.  Other people have told me that this denial is
rubbish, and a predictable attempt to disassociate him from an
embarrassing past which has resulted in him having changed his
name.  Although this controversy has been around for some time,
it's recently resurfaced, and some very specific claims have
suddenly appeared.  I have been sent a bulky dossier which goes
into even more detail, but have refrained from circulating the
material for the time being, because we should always give
people the benefit of the doubt and treat them as innocent until
proven otherwise.  Furthermore, although there can clearly be no
place in ufology for those who actively preach the politics of
hate, what if somebody who used to hold nazi views subsequently
changed his mind?  In this situation, should we perhaps accept
that this matter belongs in the past, and forgive his previous
sins?  It's a difficult issue, and raises issues about whether
researchers and investigators should "police" ufology,
ostracising those whose views or behaviour goes beyond the pale.
I'll keep you posted.


Moonshine

Newly published is a book which will doubtless be lapped up by
conspiracy theorists.  Dark Moon by Mary Bennett and David Percy
examines in detail the claims that NASA hoaxed the 1969 Apollo
moon landing.  The book covers a lot of ground, from the mystery
surrounding the Sphinx, to the controversy over the so-called
Face on Mars.  The authors even manage to bring in Roswell.  I
confess to being extremely sceptical about claims such as these.
There are certainly some anomalies in the official films and
photographs of the moon landings, but it's likely that this is
due to nothing more sinister than NASA retouching some of the
images, so that the demanding press and public had something
impressive to look at.  This enhancement is hardly a crime, and
certainly doesn't mean the mission took place in a TV studio.
Issue 97 of Fortean Times contains an excellent article
refuting, point by point, the arguments that had previously
(Issue 94) been put forward by David Percy.  All this puts me in
mind of one of the most amusing pieces of television I've ever
seen, when Matthew Williams was invited onto Channel 4's The Big
Breakfast, and allowed to trot out all the usual nonsense about
how the moon landings were faked.  He was midway through a
nervous and rambling summary of other people's research when a
caption was put up, telling viewers that what Williams didn't
know was that Buzz Aldrin, the second man on the moon, was in
the next room!  How the presenter managed to keep a straight
face, I'll never know. Aldrin was duly brought on, and I'll
never forget the look on little Matty's face as long as I live,
as he was totally and utterly humiliated on live national
television.  He doubtless wished that the ground would open and
swallow him up.  I was hoping that Aldrin would press the point,
look Williams in the eye, and simply ask if he was calling him a
liar.  Given that Aldrin had put his life on the line to fly
what was certainly a dangerous mission, he could have been
excused for being somewhat aggrieved at anybody who suggested
he'd lied about the whole thing, and had never been.  But he was
the perfect gentleman, and didn't push the point.  Nonetheless,
it was game, set and match to Aldrin, and a total disaster for
conspiracy theorists.  How I laughed!


The Unconvention

Talking about Fortean Times, their annual conference, The
Unconvention, will be held in London on 24/25 April - details at
www.forteantimes.com.


Mars Attacks

The controversy surrounding ALH84001 (the Martian meteorite that
NASA scientists believe contains fossilised traces of bacteria
that originated on the Red Planet) continues, and there's been
an interesting new development.  Dr Andrew Steele, a British
scientist working with the NASA team studying the meteorite, has
discovered living bacteria within the meteorite.  Before you get
too excited, I should say that these are decidedly terrestrial
micro-organisms.  But the fact is that they've been feeding on
the meteorite's organic carbon molecules, formed in an era when
Mars almost certainly had running water on its surface.  The
fact that the bacteria can thrive off Martian rock is compelling
evidence that life is not some unique miracle that can only
exist here on Earth, but something that can exist in all sorts
of different environments.  We are not alone.

Ed's Note:

Nick Pope's two books, Open Skies, Closed Minds and The
Uninvited,  are available from all good bookshops.  Simon &
Schuster are his UK publishers, while The Overlook Press publish
his books in America.

Permission to distribute this information on the Internet is
granted providing the authors and Hot Gossip UK are credited.
Photographs may be copyright, and cannot be published without
permission. Hot Gossip UK - www.hotgossip.co.uk

Georgina Bruni -Editor in Chief

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E-mail: georgina@easynet.co.uk
E-mail: 104707.336@compuserve.com
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   Apr > Apr 13

                             Re: Crop 'Circlers'

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:57:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:38:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Crop 'Circlers'


>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:50:15 +0100
>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
>Subject: Crop 'Circlers'

>Source: Netsurfer Digest Vol.5 Number 11

>http://www.eyewire.com/eyeopeners/cropsecrets.html

>Crop Circlers

>One night in 1978, after a few pints at the pub and a discussion
>about UFOs, Doug Bower and his friend Dave Chorley made the
>first crop circle, using a four-foot metal bar used to secure
>the back door of Doug's art studio. Since then, crop circles
>have become a favorite spiritual art form, a medium whose
>critics unusually believe some transcendent message can be
>derived from wheat flattened by a board. The Circlemakers site
>provides more responsible commentary. Check out Top of the Crop,
>photos of last year's most impressive creations. Included are
>instructions on how to make your own crop circles. Farmers'
>reactions to having their fields turned into UFO landing pads
>not included.


Hi John, Hi All

Whilst I do not say that Doug and Dave caused quite a stir I am
fairly certain from my reading/research into crop circles, (this
has meant several trips into muddy fields, trips to Wiltshire
and Hampshire, OK so its not a huge amount of research but its
more than some who claim to be experts) I have discovered two
things.

1) Crop circles and the associated phenomenon was around long
before Doug and Dave, although nowhere near the quantity.

2) When I was in Wiltshire last year I spoke to an American girl
who said, and I quote " I don't care if they are _all_ fake,
they bring people together in a most unique way and get them
talking about other things than the boring way of life that they
have."

I think the last just about sums it up don't you?

--

    In an infinite universe infinitely anything is possible.
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
            UFO page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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   Apr > Apr 13

                   Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:35:58 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:43:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?


>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:16:01 +0200
>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
>Subject: Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>As of now, both versions may well be true.

>Be J.B. dead or alive, we simply have no sure way to check it.

>Just like we've never had any sure way to check whether he
>really existed or not, after all.


I love it!  Schrodinger's Jack, both alive and dead
simultaneously until an observer collapses the quantum vector.

Wow!

Bob





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                             Re: Behold - Again

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:05:37 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:58:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Behold - Again


>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:49:22 -0600
>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Behold - Again

>It's back

>http://www.stephens-behold.com/index.html


>Most NASA and Navy verifiers are there now.

I don't follow.  Neither the posting nor the site itself offers
any context.  A few examples ...

"those very documents" - no context
"Royce Meyers ... whomever he is" - no context
"The Group" - no context

Its like writing a article using nothing but pronouns - full of
sound and fury and signifying nothing; unless somehow you
understand the meaning behind the pronouns. (ESP?).

Now, I have no personal opinion pro or con on Stephens/Bell.
But as one who wades thru dozens of messages a day on ebk's list
and others, not to mention the additional dozens of links those
messages can point to (in addition to trying to have a life
elsewhere) I must say I don't keep up with pronouns well. But
perhaps I'm the exception ...

One more item from the site ...

  "if anyone DOES try and pull the site, ever,
   the site goes global on about 25000 sites"

Sounds like "The Group" has some pretty deep pockets to me.
Wonder who is financing this?

Onward thru the email,

  -Brian





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 14

                  Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:05:56 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:15:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...


On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote:

>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:53:21 EDT
>Subject: Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...
>To: updates@globalserve.net

<snip>

>I think you have given here very interesting information again,
>after the analysis of the Ubatuba fragment.

>Is it possible to have the text of the letter of Dr Fontes?
>Would you have a reference (a book, or review) where I could
>find it?

>It looks like a very valuable document, especially since the
>special nature of the Ubatuba fragments seems to be confirmed.

Hi Gildas.

To my knowledge, no further independent Magnesium (Mg) isotope
ratio testing on the Ubatuba UFO fragments has been done since
1997 when Dr. Peter Sturrock had Dr. Sam Wang at Elemental
Research in Vancouver, B.C. do the analysis using Inductively
Coupled Plasma - Mass Spectroscopy (ICP-MS) that found the very
unEarthly Mg isotope ratios.  Since there is a possibility the
ICP-MS results may have been misinterpreted because of problems
of interference from other species such as C2, CN, etc., I am
now trying to get the Ubatuba UFO fragments tested again,
possibly using laser induced fluorescence (LIF), which has high
resolution and does not have the interference that the ICP-MS
technique suffers from for certain elements.

As for the text of Dr. Olavo T. Fontes' letter, I probably have
a complete copy at my father's home in Ottawa where I have many
of my UFO books, periodicals and papers.  A slightly edited
version of this letter, dated February 27, 1958, can be found in
William S. Steinman's and Wendelle C. Stevens' excellent book
"UFO Crash at Aztec" (pages 179 to 187).  Since Dr. Fontes was
the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO) representative
for Brazil, a copy of his letter may still be found in the APRO
files.

You will also find a complete report on the Ubatuba UFO case
including Dr. Fontes' involvement in Coral and Jim Lorenzen's
(founders and co-directors of APRO) book "Flying Saucers - the
Startling Evidence of the Invasion from Outer Space".

I hope the information above is of help.

Nick Balaskas







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   Apr > Apr 14

                       Astonishing UFO .MPG Video Clip

From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:16:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:16:59 -0400
Subject: Astonishing UFO .MPG Video Clip


From: Kim Burrafato <lensman@stardrive.org>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:14 PDT
Subject: Astonishing UFO MPEG video clip
To: updates@globalserve.net


Folks,

You've got to spend a few minutes and go to this excellent video
site and check out one of the most stunning UFO video clips
you'll ever see!  The particular clip is the 16th clip down the
page -- the frame that shows a shower of sparks against a violet
purple background.  The clip shows an unidentifiable lenticular
shaped craft rapidly approaching the ground.  The camerperson
pans with the object as it literally pancakes into the ground
and

Bounces!!! back into the air to continue on for some distance.
At that point the object seemingly loses control again and
appears to impact, disintegrating into a shower of sparks at
which point the video clip ends.  In all my years, I have never
seen an aerial craft impact the ground at such a velocity and
survive, much more bounce back into the air and continue flying!

Anyone's guess what this object may have been?

See -- http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/video.htm
--
*****************************************************************

"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government?
When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory.
The federal government is our servant, not our master!"

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep
and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
against tyranny in government."

--- Thomas Jefferson
*****************************************************************







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   Apr > Apr 14

             NASA Leonid Balloon Snagged Some Far-Out Meteoroids

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:46:40 GMT
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:20:10 -0400
Subject: NASA Leonid Balloon Snagged Some Far-Out Meteoroids

Source: Discovery (Channel) Online News,

http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/brief1.html?ct=3D3713ed11

Go to the site for NASA's animated sequence showing "microscopic
slices of an impact crater discovered on the xerogel capture
device. The crater measures 20-30 microns in diameter. The
animation shows the crater at various depths."

Stig

***

Tuesday, April 13, 1999

Leonid Meteor Results In

**

For the first time ever, astronomers may have snagged meteoroids
that originated outside the orbit of Uranus.

At the NASA/Ames Leonid Workshop Tuesday, astronomer David
Noever and his colleagues from the Marshall Space Flight Center
describe tiny particles captured in flight above Earth.

The study shows promise for an innovative method of meteoroid
retrieval, and takes scientists closer to understanding the
solar system at its adolescence.

Astronomers set the meteoroid trap by launching a weather
balloon 12 miles into the atmosphere during the Leonid meteor
shower last November. The event occurs once a year as Earth
passes through the debris trail left by Comet Temple-Tuttle.
Secured below the balloon were a digital video camera and a
micrometeorite collector made of a gel-like material.

"Mainly, we were trying to answer whether this was a viable way
of capturing meteoroids," says Noever.

When the team retrieved the balloon and examined the xerogel
dust collector with an electron microscope, they discovered
eight tiny impact craters. Several clues pointed to an
extraterrestrial origin for the impactors.

The chemical signature was different from terrestrial dust but
similar to cosmic dust found in ocean cores and in Antarctica.
Also, the particles had a translucent rim surrounding an opaque
core -- a characteristic of cosmic grains partially melted by
fri ction in Earth's atmosphere.

"They fit the signature you would hope of extraterrestrial
origin," says Noever.

But, says Noever, the particles need further analysis to confirm
their origin. If they are from Comet-Temple Tuttle, they will
provide an extraordinary clue to Earth's own beginnings.

"We believe that the material brought in to the inner solar
system...more closely resembles the stuff of when the solar
system was young," says astronomer John Horack of the Marshall
Space Flight Center. "By getting these materials and putting
them in you r lab, you can understand what the solar system was
like when it was young."


By Tracy Staedter, Discovery Online News


Related Stories:

*The Leonids, Live

*Star Party!


DISCOVERY ONLINE


Animation: Courtesy of Marshall Space Flight Center






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   Apr > Apr 14

              Re: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference

From: Lawrie Williams <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:41:30 +1000
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:22:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference


>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:10:48 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference


>>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
>>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:39:03 EDT
>>Subject: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference
>>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>In an unexpected and vicious move,Dr.Jaime Gesundt boycotted
>>the NY City Abduction Conference and assailed Hopkins."That
>>son a mon gun stole my ideas.."ranted Gesundt, who claims it
>>was his idea to have a conference in NY to begin with...

>Hello Dr. Gesundt,

>Glad to see that you're back safe and sound from your
>sojourn on the continent. However, I must take this
>oportunity to remind you of a certain $150 wager we
>made several months ago......

I too have made something resembling a wager.

My bet was that booze-loving "Jim Mortellaro" DOES NOT EVEN
EXIST.

The implications re the reliability of this person's
"information" should be obvious enough but I'll spell them out
anyway: Ufology, lumbered with more than enough lies and
disinformation, is playing host to a time-wasting hoaxer.

I wish that I was wrong.

Can anyone on this list or anywhere else provide testimony that
they have seen this person in the flesh? I bet not.

Lawrie Williams ________





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   Apr > Apr 14

                    Re: Blather: Foolishness and Codology

From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:44:02 PDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:00:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Blather: Foolishness and Codology


>From: Blather - Daev Walsh <daev@blather.net>
>Subject: Blather: Foolishness and Codology
>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:12:00 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net

>______________________________________________________
>B  L  A  T  H  E  R

>p a r a n o r m a l   p r o v o c a t e u r i s m

>By Dave (daev) Walsh daev@blather.net
>Web: http://www.blather.net
>_______________________________________________________
>March 31st 1999, Dublin, Ireland   Vol 2. No. 40
>_______________________________________________________

<Snip>

>Foolishness and Codology

<Big Snip>

>Codology - the practice of codding, fooling

>Cod - hoax, joke, lie, humbug

>- usage - 'Are you codding me or what?'

Dear Daev and fellow Blatherers (& List),

Does this mean a 'cod piece' is something hiding a load of old
bollocks?  <BG>

Regards,
Leanne   ];-)






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               UFO Reported To Fremont [Ohio] Police - 4-11-99

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:19:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:04:37 -0400
Subject: UFO Reported To Fremont [Ohio] Police - 4-11-99


Newspaper Article:

Teens Report Seeing UFO Near Clyde

The Fremont [Ohio] News-Messenger
Tuesday, April 13, 1999

News-Messenger reports

A month after several unidentified flying object sightings near
Clyde, two teens reported seeing a strange object in the sky
Sunday night in Fremont.

Timothy R. Twiss, 18, of 322 S. Collinwood Blvd., and Shawn
Robinson, 18, of 1838 Sandusky County Road 202, told Fremont
police they were driving at 9:42 p.m. Sunday in the area of
Atkinson Elementary School on Brush Street.

They said they saw a UFO in the sky and described it as saucer
shaped, bright white with green lights in the front and back.

Twiss said as they were watching, it suddenly "took off like a
bolt of lightning," he reported.

End of article


Comment:
This is yet another mysterious addition to a string of sightings
reported from the Sandusky County, Ohio area in the last few
weeks. For details of the other sightings, all of which have
been reported to either local or county law enforcement
agencies, see the following report located at:

                http://home.fuse.net/ufo/Fremont99.htm

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/






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                           New UFO Footage Posted

From: Dave Ledger <dledger@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 03:06:33 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:12:03 -0400
Subject: New UFO Footage Posted


Greetings listmembers,

We recently posted a notice to inform other researchers about
our new ufo video pages that have been uploaded to the UFO
Scotland website.

We are pleased to announce that we have managed to add a further
two pages of anomalous footage taken from various sources and
locations around the world. One of the new pages is particularly
interesting as it lists a collection of ufo encounters caught on
video whilst also in the same airspace, and sometimes
dangerouslyy near to our own conventional aircraft.

This section is called UFO's and Aviation and can be found at:

http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/video4.htm

Also we have added a further extensive page of general ufo video
clips from across the globe including two clips from Bonnie
Scotland recorded by ourselves during September in 1997.

The URL for this page can be found at:

http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/video5.htm

Or if you want to browse through our full online collection,
please visit:

http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/video.htm

Finally, we would like to remind all visitorsand researchers
that these clips are to be used only for research purposes and
not for any financial gain whatsoever.

Enjoy the clips folks and if you like our work, please could you
add a link on your site back to the UFO Scotland website

http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger

to assist our efforts.

We thank you all in advance. Please enjoy the video footage and
we wish you all well with your own various ufo related projects.
Take care all,

From your friend in Bonnie Scotland,

Dave Ledger (UFO Scotland)
--

==================================================================
If you see someone without a smile......give them one of yours :)
******************************************************************
Posted by: Dave Ledger  (mailto:UFOSCOT@cableinet.co.uk)
http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/index.htm
ICQ pager      http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4851425
******************************************************************
THE TRUTH IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER!..................BUT HOW FAR?
==================================================================
"The sands of time are trickling away from our dear mother Earth
 and yet we continue to fight amongst ourselves and destroy our
natural enviroment,leaving all the mess for our children and their
children's children to inherit when we're gone."






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                  Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:44:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:14:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...


>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:53:21 EDT
>Subject: Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:39:11 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Aliens Among Us - And Other Thoughts...

><snip>

>>Why the big secrecy about UFOs?  We may get a hint in the long
>>letter Dr. Olavo T. Fontes (original investigator of the 1957
>>Ubatuba UFO fragments) wrote to a friend in over 40 years ago
>>where he shared many facts about the reality of UFOs and the
>>reasons for the worldwide UFO coverup that were revealed to him
>>by Brazilian naval intelligence officers in exchange for his
>>cooperation with them.  Isn't it interesting how later books and
>>dubious MJ-12 documents mirror much of what is in Dr. Fontes'
>>letter?

>>Although Dr. Fontes died shortly afterwards from cancer in his
>>30's, I think the proof of the reality of UFOs may come from his
>>Ubatuba UFO fragments which still exist and are in public hands.

>>Nick Balaskas

>I think you have given here very interesting information again,
>after the analysis of the Ubatuba fragment.

>Is it possible to have the text of the letter of Dr Fontes?
>Would you have a reference (a book, or review) where I could
>find it?

>It looks like a very valuable document, especially since the
>special nature of the Ubatuba fragments seems to be confirmed.


Hello All,

I just wanted to jump in for moment to publicly thank Nick
Balaskas. Nick you are performing a _major_league_ service to
science and to ufology. While others choose to endlessly flap
their jaws and nit pick, you are out there doing the science.
_Doing_ the work!

I thank you for the invaluable assistance you have given Budd,
myself, and IF-AIC. It's been wonderful finding someone
reputable and reliable to send the odd bits and pieces we
collect for scruitiny and analysis. I look forward to getting
the reports on the last batch.

Nick, you're one of the good ones. Long life! :)

John Velez, Webmaster, IF-AIC

________________________________________________
                                jvif@spacelab.net
INTRUDERS FOUNDATION/ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER
                            http://www.if-aic.com/
"Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________





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   Apr > Apr 14

                   Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:59:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:19:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?


>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:16:01 +0200
>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
>Subject: Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>After reading the report here that the AA cameraman "Jack" was
>>dead, I contacted Ray Santilli about it.

>>He categorically denies it and says that Jack is in good
>>health.

>QED!

>>I told:

>>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:41:22 +0200
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it>
>>Subject: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?

<snip>

>>I was also informed that "those in the know" would promptly
>>and firmly deny that, if asked.

>Ray Santilli claims J.B. is not dead.

>Can he demonstrate that?

>I guess he won't and we'll have to keep faith in Ray's words
>only, once again.

>As of now, both versions may well be true.

>Be J.B. dead or alive, we simply have no sure way to check it.

Perhaps J.B. is part of a quantum mechanical experiment (ref.
'Schroeinger's Cat'). If we "look" he suddenly becomes either
alive, or dead, but not partway between. While we are not
looking he is in a "mixed state" with the proportions between
the two states (dead, alive) changing continually.

I guess Santilli is quite the quantum mechanic........





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                             Re: Behold - Again

From: Scott Hale <sh5259a@american.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:19:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:25:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Behold - Again


>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:49:22 -0600
>From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>To: UFO Updates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Behold - Again

All,

I was reading the letter Mr. Stephens sent to the FBI and saw
some humorous content I thought I'd share. The passage I found
interesting was:


"Mr. Tubbs, I implore you to bring to bear your resources to put
a stop to this. The alternative is for the victims such as
myself to take matters into our own hands and 'win-nuke' these
servers off the internet forever. I can do this. I have the
software and the skills under Unix to do this in a matter of
minutes."


This is located at:

http://www.stephens-behold.com/letter%20to%20fbi.html

First off, a "WinNuke" will not take a server off the Internet
forever. It merely freezes the server. Unless Art is running a
server without a reset button, he's in no real trouble.

Next, a WIN-Nuke implies the use of windows. No Unix knowledge
is needed to perform a Denial of Service attack. There are even
web pages that will do it for you! It takes no skill whatsoever.

Finally, a winnuke or denial of service attack is illegal. I
find it very humorous that Mr. Stephens would include this in
the letter because it means he has no clue what he's doing.

I don't like Art Bell either, but it would be nice to see Mr.
Stephens stop pretending like he's a superhacker of some kind. I
guess we'll just have to keep praying for an end to the
insanity.

Regards,
Scott Hale

If you have a chance, do visit the page for the cool space
shuttle painting though. It's very well done.






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              Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:50:44 -0400
Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?


As a newcomer to the net, please excuse me if I do not follow
proper etiquette. I am still learning. But I wanted to issue a
comment on a major policy in force in the UK, which does not
seem to have been adopted by any other country in the world
(save, to some extent, parts of Scandinavia). That is the
banning of the use of regression hypnosis as a viable way to
explore alleged abductions.

I appreciate how this seems to work like a magic key unlocking
the secrets of a case and making a light in the sky into a
fantastic alien contact. That is part of the problem, in fact.
It has, of course, made a few reputations and fortunes as well.
But is it what proper UFOlogists should be doing? Are we not, in
fact, putting self interest ahead of what ought to be our
primary duty - witness responsibility? As a community should we
not be more willing to consider taking stands that may be tough
on some but necessary?

There are many sound reasons for having doubts about the value
of hypnosis as a tool for uncovering the facts. Many of the
pioneers of the field recognised this and issued warnings that
were rarely heeded. From my point of view there are several key
things that decided me against this matter.

Firstly, I underwent regression myself - to both a UFO event and
other events that could be checked factually (as the UFO
sighting - no big deal by itself - could not). Under hypnosis I
saw images and described them but at least half the checkable
facts (like day of week and reason for being in a certain town)
were proven wrong. As a result any testimony on a completely
unverifiable story like a UFO contact will provide at least some
evidence that is false - and perhaps a lot of it. Yet we as a
community are treating it all as reality. Moreover we are
encouraging witnesses and society to do so on dubious grounds.

Secondly, witnesses told me more than once they felt worse after
undergoing regression than they did before. It did not clarify
their memory but created new, conflicting images about which
they could not make fair judgements. It also triggered many
nightmares they did not have before. One classic abductee (Alan
Godfrey - November l980 - Todmorden, Yorkshire) is in the list
of top CE 4s compiled by Eddie Bullard. But he told me that he
could not vouch for his testimony under hypnosis. This is a
confusing mix of abduction imagery and stuff about Biblical
figures and black dogs. There is no doubt where some of this
came from if you probe into Alan's past. The point is that he -
as a witness - could not be sure that this was a real memory or
just a fantasy based on books he had read between the sighting
and the hypnosis. I doubt he is alone but I also doubt few
UFOlogists create a climate with witnesses in which they feel
they can express any such reservations. A lot of people are
swept along by a tide of belief.

Thirdly, there are too many people with no medical
qualifications doing regression - sometimes on children. In one
UK case a witness I know had an epileptic seizure during
regression to a childhood sighting. Nobody present had medical
backgrounds. Luckily the witness was okay, but the point was
surely made that in our zeal to get exciting stories the proper
importance of witness welfare is being neglected.

There were other important issues beyond these that persuaded me
but these alone were enough to convince me that we needed to
take a step back from this mad dash towards using regression
everywhere. That is why in l988 BUFORAs investigation team took
a free vote and issued a moratorium banning the use of hypnosis
in its cases. I was forced out of BUFORA council and my Director
of Investigations job 4 years ago (another sad story of UFO
politics being far more important to UFO groups than doing the
job we supposedly exist to do!). But the policy happily remains
in force and I find it odd that BUFORA have never had the
recognition due for taking what was a very important stand on
behalf of the UFO community. Moreover, that nobody out there
seems willing to follow this lead and do what I believe to be
the right thing by the public at large and the witnesses who put
their trust in us. I would be interested to know why UFOlogists
consider 'benefits' of hypnosis to outweigh potential detriments
to a witness to such a degree that a similar ban on hypnosis has
not even been freely discussed, to my knowledge, by any of the
world's major groups. I accept my view could be the wrong one
here - but I am far from alone in the UK. I do feel that events
since BUFORA took our stand - such as the rise in understanding
of false memory syndrome and the lawsuit potential of regressing
children - has done nothing but prove that we were right.

Comments requested, please,

Jenny Randles






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                   Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:28:32 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:53:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?


>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:35:58 +0100
>Subject: Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:16:01 +0200
>>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
>>Subject: Re: Jack 'Alien Autopsy' Barnett Dead?
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>As of now, both versions may well be true.

>>Be J.B. dead or alive, we simply have no sure way to check it.

>>Just like we've never had any sure way to check whether he
>>really existed or not, after all.

>I love it!  Schrodinger's Jack, both alive and dead
>simultaneously until an observer collapses the quantum vector.

>Wow!

Neither Shrodinger's cat nor Heisenberg's principle apply. Some
call it "fuzzy logic", nowadays, but I took some lessons about
probabilistic approaches to reality in my mathematics course,
when at the University, nearly 20 years ago.

Or let us call it a "suspend our judgement" until concrete data
are available for everybody to check, won't you?

'Twas good 'ole French ufologist Aime' Michel who once said:

"The rule in ufology is to consider everything, to believe
nothing", or something to that effect.

I love _that_!

Regards



Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it





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                  Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:06:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:26:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...


>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:05:56 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...

>As for the text of Dr. Olavo T. Fontes' letter, I probably have
>a complete copy at my father's home in Ottawa where I have many
>of my UFO books, periodicals and papers.  A slightly edited
>version of this letter, dated February 27, 1958, can be found
>in William S. Steinman's and Wendelle C. Stevens' excellent
>book "UFO Crash at Aztec" (pages 179 to 187).


Nick,

Without doubting anything else you've been saying in your
Ubatuba posts, I'd be curious to know why you call this book
"excellent."

I'd call it an unintentional UFO comedy. There's no doubt that
Steinman was utterly sincere, but his attempt to prove a UFO
crashed in Aztec comes up empty. (The comedy, I'm afraid, is
that he goes on for hundreds of pages, apparently unaware that
he's striking out.)

While there's ample evidence that something (whatever it may
have been) happened at Roswell, neither Steinman nor anyone else
has been able to show that any Aztec incident of any kind ever
took place.

Greg Sandow






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   Apr > Apr 14

                             Re: Behold - Again

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:52:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:28:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Behold - Again


>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:19:56 -0400
>From: Scott Hale <sh5259a@american.edu>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Behold - Again

<snip>

>Finally, a win nuke or denial of service attack is illegal. I
>find it very humorous that Mr. Stephens would include this in
>the letter because it means he has no clue what he's doing.

>I don't like Art Bell either, but it would be nice to see Mr.
>Stephens stop pretending like he's a superhacker of some kind. I
>guess we'll just have to keep praying for an end to the
>insanity.

I also find it odd that he has threatened to take the law into
his own hands and directly informed the agency that could well
be assigned the task of tracking him down to charge him with
computer crimes.  There does, indeed, seem to be a disconnect
here.

Steve






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   Apr > Apr 14

              Re: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:31:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:04:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference

>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:41:30 +1000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Lawrie Williams <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference

>>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:10:48 -0400
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>>Subject: Re: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference

>>>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
>>>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:39:03 EDT
>>>Subject: Gripple Meister Rants NY Abduction Conference
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>>In an unexpected and vicious move,Dr.Jaime Gesundt boycotted
>>>the NY City Abduction Conference and assailed Hopkins."That
>>>son a mon gun stole my ideas.."ranted Gesundt, who claims it
>>>was his idea to have a conference in NY to begin with...

>>Hello Dr. Gesundt,

>>Glad to see that you're back safe and sound from your
>>sojourn on the continent. However, I must take this
>>oportunity to remind you of a certain $150 wager we
>>made several months ago......

>I too have made something resembling a wager.

>My bet was that booze-loving "Jim Mortellaro" DOES NOT EVEN
>EXIST.

Lawrie,

First, contrary to popular belief, Jimmy is not a "booze lover."
That's just his Dr Gesundt persona. Every once in awhile Jim
morphs into Dr Gesundt. Kinda like a "Sybil" thing. <G>

He is however one of the very nicest and most generous souls I
have ever met. A little nuts to be sure, but that is just part
of his charm and double twisted sense of humor. Turn him into a
friend and you'll have a thoroughly enjoyable and loyal friend
for life. Mortellaro/Gesundt are both, my kind of peoples! <lol>

Sorry Gesundt, hope I didn't blow your cover/image too much!
<VBG>

Peace,

John Velez
________________________________________________
                                jvif@spacelab.net
INTRUDERS FOUNDATION/ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER
                            http://www.if-aic.com/
"Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________







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   Apr > Apr 14

               Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:56:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:15:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A


>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100

>I wanted to issue a
>comment on a major policy in force in the UK, which does not
>seem to have been adopted by any other country in the world
>(save, to some extent, parts of Scandinavia). That is the
>banning of the use of regression hypnosis as a viable way to
>explore alleged abductions.

>But is it what proper UFOlogists should be doing? Are we not, in
>fact, putting self interest ahead of what ought to be our
>primary duty - witness responsibility? As a community should we
>not be more willing to consider taking stands that may be tough
>on some but necessary?

You raise some interesting questions, Jenny.  I have discussed
the value of hypnosis with a clinical psychologist friend of
mine. He tells me that he is uncomfortable using it in his own
clinical practice, and indeed does so only under extraordinary
circums- tances (one of which is that the patient him/herself
sees it as the only way to continue progress and thus requests
it.  He never suggests hypnosis to his patients.

My own take on matters, after talking to him, is that hypnosis
can indeed have a 'placebo' effect--if the patient thinks it
will help, it very frequently does.

Now, when it comes to investigations and the recreation of
events, it is possible that a similar effect may be experienced.
That is, if a subject believes that hypnosis will aid recall, it
may well do so.

However, research suggests that the reliability of memories
recalled under hypnosis is highly suspect--after all, the
subject is, to all intents and purposes, in a semi-dream state.
Hypnosis will produce information, but we have no way of sorting
what is reliable from what is unreliable.  Hypnotic regressions
of multiple witnesses to an event, where possible, can help to
separate the signal from the noise, but such multiple
experiences are relatively rare.

My own take on this is -- hypnosis should be performed only if
the witness requests it (it should not, in my opinion, be
suggested), and then only by a qualified clinical professional,
in a controlled professional setting.  The questioning should
avoid suggesting a narrative or explanation, and the ufologist
should be aware that the information received from such sessions
is highly suspect.

Hypnosis is not substitute for the mundane slog of good field
work.

Brian






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   Apr > Apr 14

               Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:58:32 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:23:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A


>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100

>As a newcomer to the net, please excuse me if I do not follow
>proper etiquette. I am still learning. But I wanted to issue a
>comment on a major policy in force in the UK, which does not
>seem to have been adopted by any other country in the world
>(save, to some extent, parts of Scandinavia). That is the
>banning of the use of regression hypnosis as a viable way to
>explore alleged abductions.

>I appreciate how this seems to work like a magic key unlocking
>the secrets of a case and making a light in the sky into a
>fantastic alien contact. That is part of the problem, in fact.
>It has, of course, made a few reputations and fortunes as well.
>But is it what proper UFOlogists should be doing?

Part of the issue is, "How is the Proper UFOlogist defined?" If
there is a definition, I would like very much to hear it. In
fact, thanks to so-called "legitimate" science, there is no such
definition! These stallwart men and women of scientific research
seem to avoid this subject like the black plague or deride it as
if it were the most base and meaningless waste of time
imaginable. Ms. Randles, please answer another question, who
among those "percieved" to be true UFOlogists have made
"fortunes?"

If we assign certain parameters to the true ufologist, among
these assignations should be the respect of their peers, the
respect of legitimate science (insofar as legitimate science can
generate respect), etc. But the researchers who come to mind,
Budd Hopkins, Stanton Friedman and a very few others, have never
made any fortunes on this witch hunt. In fact, as a general
rule, have a great need to keep their day jobs or suffer the
indignities of begging on the streets... and in this age of
"foundations" and other methods of begging for help, often must
beg for their gruel.

This newcomer agrees only with one word you used...
"reputations" have been made, but not fortunes.

> Are we not, in
>fact, putting self interest ahead of what ought to be our
>primary duty - witness responsibility? As a community should we
>not be more willing to consider taking stands that may be tough
>on some but necessary?

Quite so. These men and women in UFO research, the legitimate
ones, are putting self interest ahead of responsibility; the
interest generated by themselves to do the work which whill
garner for them only derision by mainstream science, a rather
bare cupboard at the savings bank and comments by the media
which assign them, no matter how nice the media tries to be, to
the position of well meaning nutcase.

As for responsibility, I also agree with you there. These people
are not responsible ... for the falsity of faith delivered on a
silver platter of deceit.

>There are many sound reasons for having doubts about the value
>of hypnosis as a tool for uncovering the facts. Many of the
>pioneers of the field recognised this and issued warnings that
>were rarely heeded. From my point of view there are several key
>things that decided me against this matter.

>Firstly, I underwent regression myself - to both a UFO event and
>other events that could be checked factually (as the UFO
>sighting - no big deal by itself - could not). Under hypnosis I
>saw images and described them but at least half the checkable
>facts (like day of week and reason for being in a certain town)
>were proven wrong. As a result any testimony on a completely
>unverifiable story like a UFO contact will provide at least some
>evidence that is false - and perhaps a lot of it. Yet we as a
>community are treating it all as reality. Moreover we are
>encouraging witnesses and society to do so on dubious grounds.

There may be many reasons for your performance under hypnosis.
Non of which bear witness to the truth or falsity of the
experience. For you are but one person, you may not have been
properly prepared, you may not have had the right therapist,
your memory may not have been important enough or traumatic
enough for this method to have been appropriate in your case.

And you may be missing a very important point. Many "true
researchers" use hypnosis when on the average, the memories
already exist without it's prior use, that is, to verify and
garner significant detail. You may have had a sighting. But have
you any direct memory of an abduction experience? You would have
written about it I imagine were that so. Many of us do have
significant and (to us) real memory to begin with. Memory of
events which (to us) were exceedingly traumatic, as well. These
memories are in the mind. Utilization of hypnosis in these cases
has been ignored in your hypothesis.

>Secondly, witnesses told me more than once they felt worse after
>undergoing regression than they did before. It did not clarify
>their memory but created new, conflicting images about which
>they could not make fair judgements. It also triggered many
>nightmares they did not have before. One classic abductee (Alan
>Godfrey - November l980 - Todmorden, Yorkshire) is in the list
>of top CE 4s compiled by Eddie Bullard. But he told me that he
>could not vouch for his testimony under hypnosis. This is a
>confusing mix of abduction imagery and stuff about Biblical
>figures and black dogs. There is no doubt where some of this
>came from if you probe into Alan's past. The point is that he -
>as a witness - could not be sure that this was a real memory or
>just a fantasy based on books he had read between the sighting
>and the hypnosis. I doubt he is alone but I also doubt few
>UFOlogists create a climate with witnesses in which they feel
>they can express any such reservations. A lot of people are
>swept along by a tide of belief.

Once again you have selected only one example to present your
case. Budd Hopkins has thousands. Many of which are multiple
witness cases, as an example, the so called "Brooklyn Bridge"
case which occured in Manhattan, not far from the Gripple Works,
by the by.

How many regression hypnotherapists have you spoken with? And
how many abductees? And what of those _many_ individuals who
have nevere picked up a book on the subject and yet share
extraordinarily similar memory of others? What of a three year
old child who never heard of a UFO or alien describing events
which are directly related to the story presented by others,
time and again. That three year old was me, in 1946, before
anyone in our experience except "Boy" our German Shepherd and I
both whined and screamed in fear before and after the event, of
being taken to a hospital in the sky, by an ambulance, by little
creatures with big eyes and bigger heads. Boy was put down for
the paranoia it generated in that poor creatures mind.

They let me live. I am now the famous Canal Street Gripple Meister. Just
kidding.

>Thirdly, there are too many people with no medical
>qualifications doing regression - sometimes on children. In one
>UK case a witness I know had an epileptic seizure during
>regression to a childhood sighting. Nobody present had medical
>backgrounds. Luckily the witness was okay, but the point was
>surely made that in our zeal to get exciting stories the proper
>importance of witness welfare is being neglected.

You'll get no argument from me there, Ms. Randles.

>There were other important issues beyond these that persuaded me
>but these alone were enough to convince me that we needed to
>take a step back from this mad dash towards using regression
>everywhere. That is why in l988 BUFORAs investigation team took
>a free vote and issued a moratorium banning the use of hypnosis
>in its cases. I was forced out of BUFORA council and my Director
>of Investigations job 4 years ago (another sad story of UFO
>politics being far more important to UFO groups than doing the
>job we supposedly exist to do!). But the policy happily remains
>in force and I find it odd that BUFORA have never had the
>recognition due for taking what was a very important stand on
>behalf of the UFO community. Moreover, that nobody out there
>seems willing to follow this lead and do what I believe to be
>the right thing by the public at large and the witnesses who put
>their trust in us. I would be interested to know why UFOlogists
>consider 'benefits' of hypnosis to outweigh potential detriments
>to a witness to such a degree that a similar ban on hypnosis has
>not even been freely discussed, to my knowledge, by any of the
>world's major groups. I accept my view could be the wrong one
>here - but I am far from alone in the UK. I do feel that events
>since BUFORA took our stand - such as the rise in understanding
>of false memory syndrome and the lawsuit potential of regressing
>children - has done nothing but prove that we were right.
 In truth there is missuse of the procedure. But this does not
preclude it's use in research by parties who are in agreement
and who have the prequalifications of experience, sanity and a
bent on finding the truth.

What BUFORA does or does not do is of little concern to me in so
far as the fact that hypnosis is available and should be
practiced in order to determine just how good (or bad) a tool it
may be in this application. I suspect that properly used, it
will be and is now, one of the very few tools we have, save next
to memory and live specimens of the little guys with the big
eyes. And we do not seem to have any of those.

Understand that were it not for people like Budd Hopkins
(forgive me for using this name, but I know, love and respect
this man for his work, his ethics and his paucity of that one
element you mentioned early on, money), but were it not for
people like him, the field would have _little_ information
regarding this phenom. This is, after all, what research is all
about is it not? To go where no one has gone before, or at the
least, to go there in spite of the nay sayers.

If we wait for mainstream science to embrace any research
whatever in this subject, then in my opinion at least, Ms.
Randles, we would be a great deal farther back in the dark ages
than we already are, eh?

>Comments requested, please,

Methinks this post will bring a plethora of comments, Ms.
Randles.  Say, are we contemplating another book on the subject
or are you just happy to see us?

>Jenny Randles

Dr. James S. Mortellaro,

AKA, Dr. Jaime Gesundt,
Canal Street UFOlogical Society and Discount
House of Freshly Made Wine, Cheese and UFO Books

"We will sell no wine, until it's ready!"





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   Apr > Apr 14

                                 Open Letter

From: Geri DeStefano & Alfred Webre <spirit@canada.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:00:13 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:29:49 -0400
Subject: Open Letter

Dear Listers - We wanted to share with you an Open Letter, being
sent to extraterrestrial activists, as well as
environmentalists, in Eastern Europe, the Americas, the European
Union, Asia & Africa.

It is not often that extraterrestrially-interested people and
environmentalists collaborate. However, environmental war cuts
across our superficially different concerns. We have concluded
that human environmental war and its destructive impact on the
Earth may be a concern of the extraterrestrial initiative to the
planet, and of natural environmentalists everywhere. The Open
Letter is also posted at: http://www.universebooks.com.

Please-how do you feel?

Geri DeStefano & Alfred Webre

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
OPEN LETTER - ENVIRONMENTAL WAR

This Open Letter is being sent to public-minded people and
organizations in Eastern Europe and Russia, the European Union,
North/South America, Africa and Asia.

We are concerned about the development of environmental weapons
and the impact of this insidious technology upon the Earth and
its inhabitants. We invite you to scroll down for a more
complete discussion of the issue.

This is a call to ACTION. We are proposing a grassroots movement
on the part of organizations and citizens of the World, to focus
this issue sharply before the governments that are engaged in
furthering this devastating possibility. It is becoming clearer
that nation-states do two things well: conduct wars and oppress
people.

The 1977 United Nations Treaty against Environmental
Modification was forged as a potential deterrent to just this
kind of activity. Forged, but not implemented. Environmental
weapons development violates the 1977 UN Treaty, and may violate
the 1985-87 UN Vienna Convention and Montreal Protocol against
depletion of the Ozone layer. These UN treaties and conventions
are not being enforced to stop environmental war. The treaties
were signed by all military nations, who continue to recklessly
try and use Sacred ecological forces as instruments of war.

If you or your organization share similar concerns the time to
act is now! Many of us are organized around diverse issues.
Environmental Warfare coalesces many of the issues that we
normally see as unconnected. This is a strategic time in history
for all concerned to work together to put a stop to
Environmental War technology.

What You Can Do:

1) Adopt a strong organization/personal action item against
Environmental War

2) Email United Nations Environmental Programme Director Klaus
Topfer:<tore.brevik@unep.org> & demand the UN strictly enforce
the 1977 treaty and the 1985-87 Conventions to stop
environmental war.

3) Forward this Open Letter to interested journalists and media,
and to your legislative representatives and governments

4) Copy this letter and forward it to ANYONE who shares these
concerns.

5) Forward this letter to SG Kofi Annan of the United Nations
demanding strict enforcement of the 1977 Treaty against
Environmental Modification, so that development and deployment
of environmental weapons cease.

6) Begin the conversation within your group and research this
subject.

Bring awareness to this most important issue of Environmental
War, and take action. You as an individual, or your organization
can make a difference! If you would like to help build awareness
of this effort in your country or region, please e-mail us at:
econews@ecologynews.com

EcoNews Service: http://www.ecologynews.com
Vancouver, BC

Sources:
The 1977 UN CONVENTION ON THE PROHIBITION OF MILITARY
OR ANY OTHER HOSTILE USE OF ENVIRONMENTAL
MODIFICATION TECHNIQUES is at:

http://www.acda.gov/treaties/environ1.htm


Address:

SG Kofi Annan,
United Nations,
Palais des Nations,
CH-1211 Geneva 10,
Switzerland

or

United Nations,
New York, NY 10017

The Secretariat for the Vienna Convention and the Montreal
Protocol,
Executive Secretary,
P.O. Box 30552,
Nairobi, Kenya
Tel: (254-2)62-1234 or 62-3851
Fax: (254-2)62-3601 or 62-3913

E-mail:
Executive Secretary: Madhava.Sarma@unep.org
Deputy: Michael.Graber@unep.org
Scientist: Nelson.Sabogal@unep.org
Counsel: Gilly.Bankobeza@unep.org

DANGERS OF ENVIRONMENTAL WARFARE
EcoNews Service
econews@ecologynews.com

Environmental warfare may soon be a reality, with potentially
catastrophic consequences for earth's ecology.

The perfection of the E-Bomb, an electronic weapon using
electromagnetic pulse energy, has now made environmental warfare
feasible as a strategic and tactical weapons application.
Australian scientist Carlo Kopp of Monash University has shown
how the E-Bomb can be built and used:

http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~carlo/

Electromagnetic pulse energy is similar to that released by
nuclear explosions.

In Environmental warfare, E-weapons are employed to create
weather war, climate war, or tectonic warfare. Weather war
occurs when storms, hurricanes and cyclones are created over an
enemy's territory. In climate war, prolonged climate shifts such
as drought are used against an enemy. In tectonic warfare,
destructive earthquakes are triggered in an enemy's territory.

Researchers have shown that world seismicity (earthquakes) have
doubled since underground nuclear testing began, caused by
electromagnetic pulse energy released by nuclear testing.

While no major military power has yet admitted to its arsenal of
E-weapons, Internet news sources have reported that US military
forces have used new, secret electromagnetic pulse weapons in
combat. Russia first deployed electromagnetic pulse weapons in
its Woodpecker series in the mid-1970s.

A new book by futurist Alfred Webre notes that military
doctrines for environmental warfare call for a powerful new
generation of electromagnetic pulse weapons. Because of the
fragility of earth's magnetic fields, it is possible that
environmental warfare could trigger "runaway" earth changes that
would be truly cataclysmic.

Precognitive information from diverse sources and cultures,
including the Mayan Calendar, has predicted possible cataclysmic
earth outcomes for this era. Environmental warfare could
represent a mechanism for triggering an age of earth cataclysm.

You can access a research base on environmental war, and more
extended discussion of these issues in excerpts at:

http://www.universebooks.com

Thank you!



_________________
UniverseBooks.com <http://www.universebooks.com>





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   Apr > Apr 14

                 Response from Dr. Helmut Lammer (Re: MILAB)

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:05:25 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:41:53 -0400
Subject: Response from Dr. Helmut Lammer (Re: MILAB)


From: Helmut F. Lammer <hfl@BMTLG73.kfunigraz.ac.at>
Via: IUFO Mailing List

MILAB research information

After I published my third MILAB article in the MUFON UFO
Journal, April 1999, No. 372, and a reply concerning an article
which tried to debunk the research on alleged military
involvement in alien abduction phenomena by Victoria Alexander
(CAUS updates, March 1999) and our book MILABS, the MILAB
critics try to connect my private research interests with the
department where I work.

Therefore, I inform all readers that my research in UFO
phenomena, abductions and MILABS is not connected with my work
as a space scientist, does not represent the opinion of my
department, my director, etc. and is not supported by them. This
research is only private and only my own hypothesis, which is
supported via investigative journalism ..

I do also not claim that the whole US military or related
intelligence agencies are involved in alien abductions,
UFO-research, kidnappings of abductees, examinations, etc., and
I am not anti-American!

But it is my democratic opinion that there are indications that
covert human forces may be involved in the abduction phenomenon.
This is only "speculation" and the discussion about this should
not be forbitten or censored in democratic societies, or do we
live in the former Sowjetunion or Serbia?

It is a known fact that parts of the US military-intelligence
agencies experimented on unwitting people during the cold war
(New Scientist, No . 1961, 1995; No. 2030, 1996; No. 2058, 1996,
etc.), although it was illegal. I do not believe that our MILAB
critics can give us the guarantee that such secret experiments
are stopped now.

Helmut Lammer, Ph.D.







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               Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take a

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:33:44 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:17:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take a


>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100
>Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:50:44 -0400
>Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?

Jenny:

In a word, yes.

I have been advocating exactly this point for years, but no one
has been listening, as usual. One of the few others who has been
trying to make this point clear is David Gotlib, who even
produced a working document of Standards for Treatment of
Abductees, which has largely been ignored.

The latest case I have been working on is a prime example of
this situation. I work only with a clinical psychologist
well-versed in the proper use of hypnotic regression. The
abductee in this case already has a partial memory of an event,
and wants to uncover the rest. There have been three sessions so
far, and only one use of hypnosis. Rather than "push the
envelope" and explore the abductee's memories beyond conscious
recall, the pyschologist has decided to work on relaxation
techniques in order to help the abductee overcome his fears of
"what's locked inside." With a lessening of the fear, the
abductee may then _consciously_ recall more details.

This abductee admits to having read a great many books with UFO
and abduction themes, and became terrified at reading Jacobs'
latest book. The psychologist felt that there was no way to
ensure that any images "recovered" through regression were
"real" and not influenced by his reading of UFO material.

>Thirdly, there are too many people with no medical
>qualifications doing regression - sometimes on children. In one
>UK case a witness I know had an epileptic seizure during
>regression to a childhood sighting. Nobody present had medical
>backgrounds. Luckily the witness was okay, but the point was
>surely made that in our zeal to get exciting stories the proper
>importance of witness welfare is being neglected.

I agree completely. More than one abductee who had come to me
has attempted suicide because "they" were always watching and
controlling everyday life. One woman was a rape victim. Another
had been diagnosed with DID (MPD). Clearly, ufologists are not
the ones who should be "treating" such individuals. I care
deeply about the welfare of abductees who may have underlying
emotional or pyschological problems and who are regressed by UFO
buffs with only a "crash course" in hypnosis as background.

Part of the problem might be, as you pointed out, that hypnosis
is so widely used in ufology, it is difficult to back away at
this point, especially by the 'experts'. There are those who
insist they are being careful, yet some are certainly driven by
some inherent biases and beliefs which are well-ingrained within
them. The resistance to stop using regression hypnosis is (and
will be) very strong and vocal, I believe.

My only suggestion is to continue to warn of the dangers and
limitations of hypnosis, and hope that the message may
eventually sink in.

Regards,

Chris Rutkowski


--
Nobody in particular






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                Tales of Abduction - IF Conference - A Press

From: Jeff Westover <frequentflier66@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:59:18 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:14:53 -0400
Subject: Tales of Abduction - IF Conference - A Press


http://www.wired.com:80/news/news/culture/story/19058.html

Tales of Abduction
by Theta Pavis

3:00 a.m.  12.Apr.99.PDT

NEW YORK -- Attending the 1999 UFO Abduction Conference was a
lot likewatching a year's worth of The X-Files, crammed nonstop
into one day. There were theories of alien-human hybridization,
metallic implants shoved deep into human craniums, plans for
world domination, and government cover-ups. The only thing
missing was the spooky set. The conference took place in a
Chelsea community center where fresh flowers adorned the
registration table.
 A calm collection of people bought a lot of books and a few
glow-in-the-dark t-shirts as they chatted about physics,
near-death experiences, cancer cures, what aliens might be up
to, and the location of the nearest coffee shop.

"I've sort of come to Mecca here," said Richard Sitts, a retired
electrical engineer          who used to work for General
Electric. "All the big names are here, and it's nice to rub
elbows with them."

----

Cosmic cable access: A two-man crew from New York cable-access
television grabbed several UFO luminaries for live interviews in
the lobby.

On camera, Peter Robbins, a member of the Intruders Foundation
staff and the author of a book about a famous UFO case in
Britain, was asked why aliens might be interested in human
reproduction.

"There are no reports of sexual organs on them," he said,
speculating that the aliens may have moved into such a highly
developed state that they've lost the knack for reproduction.

"Maybe it's a thinning of the gene pool," he said. "Their heads
are so big and their bodies so small... and that's not healthy."

----

Easy listening: During one break, the soundman filled the
auditorium with background music as attendees shuffled out for
lunch. His choice of melody? The song "Calling Occupants of
Interplanetary Craft Earth," a Carpenters cover of a mid-70s
tune.

----

Self-promotion in the Space Age: One thing the speakers at the
conference all shared was a sense of humor, poking fun at
themselves and their detractors.

During a slide show, nuclear physicist and author Stanton
Friedman snuck in a shot of himself holding some of his books,
pausing to let the audience laugh.

Some of his videos, including "Flying Saucers Are Real" were on
sale at his table. Friedman said the government's cover-up of
aliens amounts to a "cosmic Watergate."

----

Regression on the high seas: Flyers for a Paranormal Cruise
hosted by the Carnival cruise line were stacked up on tables at
the conference. The cruise features Deloris Cannon, a past life
regressionist and hypnotherapist, lectures and seminars with
other "spirit communicators," plus "all the food you can eat 24
hours a day." A deluxe interior cabin for the cruise to Cozumel
goes for US$899.






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                        Re: EarthLights Site w/Webcam

From: Stephen Lewis <stephen.lewis@tsl.state.tx.us>
Date: 14 Apr 1999 14:59:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:21:25 -0400
Subject: Re: EarthLights Site w/Webcam


>From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com>
>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:06:11 -0400
>Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:06:38 -0400
>Subject: Re: EarthLights Site w/Webcam

>>From: Stephen Miles Lewis <stephen.lewis@tsl.state.tx.us>
>>Subject: EarthLights Site w/Webcam?
>>Date: 10 Apr 1999 12:49:45 -05
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Within the last couple of months someone posted a web address
>>for an earthlights research site which features a live webcam.
>>This is not the old Project Hesdalen site (to my knowledge).

>>I bookmarked it when I first found it but, since installing some
>>new computer equipment I've been unable to find that bookmarks
>>list (shazbot!) so I'd appreciate any help in relocating this
>>resource.

>The address you are looking for is the Longdendale
>Lights/Legends of Longdendale site, recently updated with new
>links and information. The address is:

>www.hauntedvalley.com

Thanks to all who supplied this vital info:

     -Larry Hatch
     -Brian Cuthbertson
     -David Clarke

Appreciatively,
SMiles





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              Swinging Pendulum Object Reported In Pennsylvania

From: Stan Gordon <paufo@westol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:30:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:28:28 -0400
Subject: Swinging Pendulum Object Reported In Pennsylvania


Swinging pendulum object reported in Pennsylvania
From: UFO researcher Stan Gordon
PA UFO Hotline (724-838-7768)
Website: www.westol.com/~paufo

This incident occurred near Latrobe, PA on the evening of April
10, 1999.  The witness who is a law enforcement officer for a
state agency, had taken a walk outside and at about 7:40 P.M.
noticed a brilliant star-like object very high up in the sky.
The observer indicated that what he saw looked similar to Venus,
which he is used to seeing later in the evening, but towards the
west.  The sun had just set, and the witness thought that it was
still to early to see many stars. He lined up the bright object
with the corner of a building, and confirmed that the object was
indeed moving very slowly.

Curious about what he was seeing, the man ran inside and
obtained his 10x50 binoculars. The object was moving slowly and
steadily from northwest to southeast.  In the binoculars the
actual shape of the object itself couldn't be determined, since
the sun was reflecting off the body and it was extemely bright.
But what was most interesting, was that hanging from the bottom
of the brilliant object was a long appendage that "looked like a
very long pole."  The witness felt that due to the very high
altitude of the object, this part would have to have been very
large for him to see it so clearly.

This straight device gave the man the impression of a pendulum,
since it was rotating under the object counter clockwise, but at
times would remain straight down and stop. This mechanism which
appeared solid, and always remained straight, was silver in
color. There may have been some bumps or irregularites along the
appendage.

The object was observed for about 20 minutes. The witness was
distracted from the observation for a short time, and when he
tried to locate the object again, he was unable to locate it.
This witness has seen NWS weather balloon packages, and is sure
that this is not what he observed.

If anyone is aware of any similar recent reports, please contact
me.

Stan Gordon






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                        Aliens Among Us - WWN Images

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:58:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:33:30 -0400
Subject: Aliens Among Us - WWN Images


Dear list:

With regard to the original "aliens among us" thread, I have
scanned in an already reduced cover of a back issue of the
Weekly World News.

This 15KB .JPG file shows a front page cover with the headline:
"12 [US] SENATORS ARE SPACE ALIENS "

The print is too small to make out their printed names, but you
might make out some of the 12 faces shown.

I have a similar .JPG of a WWN cover page which shows a space
alien endorsing Bill Clinton for re-election. Since this is a
single "photo", you can make out more detail.

Either or both images attached to emails on request.

<larryhat@jps.net>

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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                MAGONIA Monthly Supplement No. 14 April 1999

From: Mark Pilkington <m.pilkington@virgin.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:42:31 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:46:05 -0400
Subject: MAGONIA Monthly Supplement No. 14 April 1999


MAGONIA Monthly Supplement        No. 14  April 1999
(formerly ETH Bulletin)
Interpreting contemporary vision and belief

Editor: JOHN HARNEY

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

EDITORIAL

Ufologists who support the ETH can easily find cases which appear to point
to it as a possible explanation, but the main weakness of such cases is
that the testimony never seems to be confirmed by independent witnesses.
Where there are said to be such witnesses, their testimony remains
mysteriously unavailable, as in a number of incidents I have discussed in
previous issues. If there really are well-witnessed, inexplicable UFO
incidents, there can't be many of them. Perhaps someone would like to
furnish us with a list of them?

______________________________________________________________________

LATEST BUFORA BUST-UP

The recent crisis in BUFORA, involving the resignations of key
members, highlights one of the perennial problems of ufology -
the tension between the majority, who believe in the flying
saucers and see UFO organisations as having a duty to entertain
them and to reinforce their beliefs, and the minority who prefer
to carry out objective investigations of apparent UFO incidents
with a view to discovering the truth about them.

This latest bust-up has prompted me to have a root through back
issues of Magonia and its predecessors, MUFOB and Merseyside UFO
Bulletin. There are many items concerning the fights and feuds
in British ufology and they nearly all have the same cause. It
is simply that there always have been intelligent and sensible
people interested in UFO reports who fail to realise that formal
UFO organisations exist for the benefit of those who believe in
the flying saucers. When such UFO organisations get hold of an
interesting case, they invent details to spice it up, then
present it in various forms to entertain their fellow believers.
Objective investigations and rational explanations are
definitely unwelcome. Pseudoscience is preferred to science, as
science is too difficult and its application is all too likely
to lead to true explanations, which can be very boring, and can
undermine the faith of those who attend daft lectures and buy
gee-whiz books.

There is nothing new about the turmoil in BUFORA and there is
nothing new about Malcolm Robinson's policy of including cranks,
publicity seekers and the mentally unbalanced in his lecture
programme. What is unusual, though, is that there are increasing
numbers of UFO researchers who are no longer prepared to
tolerate the activities of such people. In the old days one
could attend a UFO conference and see sceptics, objective
researchers and cranks happily sharing the same platform. The
cranks got all the applause, of course.

Now some of the saner ufologists have decided that enough is
enough. But, one wonders: Why did they ever even contemplate
joining BUFORA in the first place? BUFORA has always had among
its members many eccentric and gullible people, pseudoscientists
with fake PhDs, "Captains" who never went to sea, and other
oddities. Yet some people persist in believing that
organisations like BUFORA can be reformed if only a few sane
people join them. In his resignation letter, BUFORA Press
Officer Dr David Clarke wrote: "As a working journalist of ten
years I felt I could be a great asset for the association, and
was initially under the impression that my experience and skills
would be valued by council. I anticipated working closely with
council members to promote BUFORA as the premier national UFO
study group, committed to high standards and setting a
responsible example to other groups, individuals and the outside
world."

Magonia's predecessor, Merseyside UFO Bulletin, was started
because I and a few others found BUFORA and its affiliates to be
insufferable. And that was way back in 1968. The Bulletin
followed on from MUFORG Bulletin, which I had started as a
member of that group (which was affiliated to BUFORA) in 1966.
Sceptical and sensible members of the group contributed
interesting items to MUFORG Bulletin; the believers and
head-bangers contributed nothing, but complained loudly about
its content. They apparently wanted vaguely uplifting stories
about blond-haired Venusians, together with the occasional
technical piece about anti-gravity drives for flying saucers.
The rows that resulted when the believers did not get what they
wanted could be amusing, though. In 1969, I wrote, concerning
MUFORG and MUFORG Bulletin:


Towards the end of 1966 we got even more controversial. In
September I went to the BUFORA Northern Conference in Bradford
and heard Mr Arthur Shuttlewood holding forth for two solid
hours about the Warminster phenomena. My scathing review of this
event, in the October 1966 issue of the Bulletin, brought two
indignant letters in support of Shuttlewood for publication in
the December issue.

However, in that December issue we really excelled ourselves.
Alan Sharp wrote a lyrical piece, "Moonlight at Warminster",
which practically suggested that observers there were victims of
their own overwrought imaginations. We also published reviews of
the BUFORA Annual General Meeting, written by Dave Hughes and
Paul Hopkins. Both reviews were highly critical, with plenty of
sarcastic comments. I must admit, though, that Hopkins puzzled
me at the time by complaining in his write-up that he had to pay
3/- [3 shillings =3D 15 pence!] for "temporary membership" in
order to be admitted. I had also attended the meeting, but I
just walked straight into the hall, assuming that the people
clustered around the table were merely intent on buying the UFO
books and magazines inevitably offered for sale at such events!

These reviews resulted in some "more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger"
letters from BUFORA officials [they didn't just ignore their
critics in those days] and a great shouting match at the January
1967 MUFORG meeting, which sought to establish whether or not
the contents in the December issue were justified. The shouting
died down after about half an hour and the result was generally
agreed to be a draw. (1)

When I left MUFORG nobody took on the task of editor and the
group gradually disintegrated as its sane members found better
things to do with their spare time.

In 1970, John Rimmer wrote:

Then there's the BUFORA in-group. Very interesting this one. It
should be required study for organisational psychologists. The
plots and counter-plots are Machiavellian. I find them
fascinating, but I am the sort of sadist who finds
self-destruction fascinating. . . .

Yet the BUFORA people are all honourable men, why do they behave
in this way? Chiefly, I think, because they have run out of
ideas. Because they are sterile, devoid of any new ideas,
incapable of adjusting a way of thinking. This leads to
pomposity, a deep, self-assured feeling that any criticism is
the work of an inferior intellect. . . .

Face it! The average ufologist wants to go to a group and hear
someone telling him about the space people. If he's over
twenty-five he wants to hear about the nice space people. If
he's under twenty-five he wants to hear about the nasty space
people. The last thing he wants to do is study and investigate,
or pay out any of his easy earned money so that others can. Even
the investigation is limited. If you accept, as most do, that
the UFOs are space craft there is little you can do except panic
and wait for them to announce themselves. And most people are
doing this very well indeed. (2)

This article was "noted with some dismay" by Richard Beet of the
Surrey Investigation Group on Aerial Phenomena in the next issue
(Vol. 3, No. 4) of Merseyside UFO Bulletin, and he went on to
emphasise the need for organised groups. However, in ufology,
organised groups just do not work; they serve largely to
entertain believers and to spread disinformation about common
misperceptions and unusual phenomena. I believe that one of the
main mistakes made by those UFO organisations who start with the
intention to be objective is in allowing anyone to join, instead
of operating a strict, even if informal, selection procedure.
Such groups would be small, but would surely be more effective
and more respected. There are not many sensible and intelligent
folk who take a healthily sceptical interest in UFOs. As Peter
Brookesmith put it, it is "dark and lonely work, but someone has
to do it". (3)


References

1. Harney, John. "A Personal View of the Sixties", Merseyside
   UFO Bulletin,

2, 6, November-December 1969

2. Rimmer, John. "The Death and Life of British Ufology",
   Merseyside UFO Bulletin, 3, 3, June-July 1970

3. Brookesmith, Peter. "Dark and Lonely Work", Magonia, 52,
   May 1995

______________________________________________________________________

BOOK REVIEWS

David M. Jacobs. The Threat, Simon & Schuster, 1998. =9C16.99, $23.00

This book has so far generated some derision, but little
comment. Jacobs, a professor of history at Temple University in
Philadelphia, has been researching UFOs since 1966, but is not a
man to rush to conclusions. His 1975 book The UFO Controversy in
America was a proper academic study which tried to sit on the
fence, though it showed signs of falling off on the ETH side. By
the late 1970s he "could no longer deny that witnesses were
seeing something extraordinary and probably not from Earth". In
1986 he performed his first hypnotic regression. Since then he
has regressed over a hundred abductees, and in recent years he
has come to believe he has thereby "uncovered information that
allows UFO researchers to solve the UFO mystery".

We have heard this claim many times before. Unfortunately, all
of the definitive solutions to the UFO mystery have been
different, and mostly mutually incompatible.

Jacobs believes that aliens are unable to reproduce themselves
properly, so they are abducting our women and forcing them into
a breeding programme intended to create human-alien hybrids who
will eventually take over the world. Huge numbers of busy aliens
must be engaged therein: he estimates that more than a million
Americans have been abducted, perhaps as many as five million,
sometimes regularly: one woman "had as many as 100 abductions
during a one-year period" (and to her distress her family and
friends refused to believe her). Their genetic science is so
advanced that they can even use women who are postmenopausal or
who have had hysterectomies. Some hybrids are already
sufficiently like us that they can mingle with humans unnoticed
for up to a few hours. As students of urban legend will have
guessed, while on Earth they like to travel about in unmarked
vans and black helicopters. Even if the world's scientists wake
up to The Threat, they may be too late to prevent it, since "The
Change" (when "they" will start to rule openly, apparently) is
coming in not more than two generations, perhaps in as little as
five years.

The trouble is that this is one of those theories that, if true,
should never have got into print. The ruthless aliens are
supposed to have already reached the stage where they can do
what they like with us, and since they monitor abductees closely
(through their implants, he suggests) they must know that he has
learnt their secrets: surely then they would have silenced him
(or did they allow him to publish as a double bluff?). Yet
Jacobs is obviously completely sincere, and so probably are his
abductees. If one is to dismiss his findings, then it is worth
asking how come he has apparently obtained a consistent body of
evidence for something that is not real?

Firstly, at least some of these cases seem to have begun with a
genuinely inexplicable event. One woman wrote to him: "In 1979
my boyfriend and I saw a UFO close up and it swooped down low
towards us. All I remember was running, and then we found
ourselves in our car and it was six hours later. I have thought
about this incident every day of my life since then."
Unfortunately he does not tell us anything more about this
woman, though one may suppose that he hypnotised her and got her
to recall her abduction.

If so, he would have been making a crucial assumption. When
dealing with the unknown, one ought to consider every
possibility. Reports of "missing time" might, for instance, be
caused by people going into trances for some reason. If so, then
it would be futile to regress them, since there would be nothing
lost for them to recall.

In most instances, however, the evidence that the subject might
have been abducted is pretty vague, e.g. a woman who sat in on
his university course "UFOs and American Society" started to
feel so uncomfortable that she had to stop attending. Later they
concluded that she had been abducted 13 times in 1994 alone.

In another case, a graduate student could recall having been
molested by a stranger at the age of twelve. Under hypnotic
regression, however, the incident turned out to have been a
screen memory for "a routine abduction event". This anecdote
raises all kinds of possibilities that Jacobs doesn't explore,
not least that alien abductions might be screen memories for
ordinary sexual abuse.

Though he says he is careful not to ask leading questions, it is
hard to believe that he does not put his own interpretation on
events. He states that aliens purposely place "instilled
memories" in the abductee's mind: "I have had people remember
figures that looked like Abraham Lincoln wearing a stovepipe
hat, men wearing fedoras, angels, devils, and so forth." A
hypnotist with a different agenda might regard the angels or
devils as real, but the aliens as "instilled memories". One
woman recalled being assaulted and raped, a candle pushed into
her vagina, and seeing a vision of people being hacked to death
in a graveyard. This could have been taken as a classic example
of Satanic Abuse, but here it is interpreted as caused by
hybrids intimidating her so that she would co-operate with them.

Then again, some other abductionists believe that the US
military is secretly working with the aliens. Not so, says
Jacobs: some hybrids wear one-piece jump suits that resemble
uniforms so "it is easy to mistake them for American military
personnel". One gathers that he has to set his abductees
straight on this point.

What is the proof for all this? Attempts have been made to video
abductees at night. "So far, no abductions have been videotaped.
Rather, tapes reveal people getting up and inexplicably turning
off the VCR, or unusual power outages during which the camera
turns off, or the camera simply goes off mysteriously." Jacobs
is also well aware that false memory and confabulations are
common, and devotes a chapter to this difficulty. Apparently he
judges the stories by their similarity. Melissa, the very first
woman he regressed, described how she touched an alien's head
and "immediately felt, love, warmth, and affection emanating
from him". But she did not recall this on her second regression,
and no other abductee has reported having been "required to
touch an alien's head and receive loving emotions". Therefore he
concludes that this was a false memory. It would seem from this
that those things he thinks are genuine must be true because
more than one abductee reports them. An example is "Mindscan",
reported by several named subjects, where an alien stares at a
woman to make her sexually aroused, sometimes to the point of
intense orgasm. (Does the hypnotist merely make them recall
this, or actually re-undergo it?) One wonders how far the
apparent consistency of these stories is actually due to the
arrangement of the material. In his comments on the sessions
Jacobs frequently uses special terms such as gray, hybrid, The
Change, as also in his non-leading questions ("gray beings, or
hybrid?"), but they do not occur in the quoted extracts from the
subjects. One might even ask whether, if many people had been
abducted by aliens, they would necessarily have undergone
similar things? In any case, such consistency is hardly proof of
reality. It is well known to Jungian analysts that unconnected
people in different parts of the world will have very similar
dreams, apparently because everyone's mind works in the same
basic way. Hypnotic regression may just be tapping into the same
collective unconscious. Then again, Jacobs assumes that you have
to select the consistent details out from the admixture with
false memories, instilled memories, and other phantasmata. This
would only work if there really was a consistent body of
evidence to be recovered, if all these subjects had indeed
forgotten similar experiences of abduction - which is not
independently proven.

I am afraid that if Jacobs is right, then nonetheless the
scientific community are not going to take him seriously, so the
world as we know it will be doomed.

Gareth J. Medway



Paul Cornell, Martin Day and Keith Topping.

X-Treme Possibilities: A Comprehensively Expanded Rummage
Through Five Years of The X-Files,

Virgin,
1998. =9C6.99

Love it or hate it The X-Files will help you identify where the
loonies get most of their wacky ideas from. As the authors say
in this book, The X-Files is the product of a nation that is so
betrayed by its leaders that it has come to believe that there
is some cosmic conspiracy at work. As a consequence, the Greys
are to blame for the evils and shortcomings of US democracy.
They are the all-powerful bureaucrats from outer space:

"The Greys are also the dead of Belsen (an image The X-Files
takes literally), aborted foetuses, shaved experimental cats:
all those things we've done, that we should be guilty about,
externalised, mythologised, and back to do to us what we did to
them."

The activities of Special Agents Fox Mulder and Dana Scully have
"progressed" from being earnest variations on popular horror and
science fiction films based on tabloid headlines, to
self-conscious, tongue-in-cheek storylines.

This book provides an episode-by-episode guide which takes you
through all the twists and turns of the plots and how they
relate to each other. It is an entertaining and insightful read
and contains many nuggets of intriguing "facts" from the series.
For example, Mulder eats sunflower seeds in several episodes;
apparently these have a protective effect against vampires and
from other potential biological threats against humanity. I
wonder if many parrots are starving due to people imitating him?

For ufologists and explorers of the unknown this is a fine look
at the interface between fact and fiction; it's also extremely
good value for money. Buy it before they get you. Nigel Watson

________________________________________________________________


LETTERS Thanks for the review (15 months late but what the heck)
of UFO Crash Landing? Friend or Foe? I am puzzled why Nigel
Watson seems to appear out of his self-imposed Bermuda Triangle
just to review books about Rendlesham. As such we get a curious
impression of his apparent bias against this case.

To say that Roswell compared with it is "sensible to believe in"
is ridiculous. There we are trying to evaluate a 52-year-old
story via witnesses who nearly all died years ago, seeded with
so much modern hype and invention (the autopsy film, bits of
alleged Roswell debris, etc., etc.) that there is no hope of
getting very far. In so far as we can get, however, Roswell is
clearly not a case "to believe in" for the overwhelming evidence
supports the view that this was a downed balloon used in the
Mogul experiment. That is certainly how I read the evidence at
present and I do not consider Roswell of any huge significance,
except from an instructive and socially historical perspective.

In contrast Rendlesham offers a far better prospect. Why? Most
of the witnesses are still alive and many are now talking. It is
possible to collate what they all say, record what was going on
in the area at the time and try from all of that to piece the
thing together into some kind of picture that approximates to
the truth. That is what I do in this book. To say - as Nigel
does yet again without justification - that the book is merely a
"great laugh" and shows (presumably my) "gullibility" is a
little galling given his apparent lack of understanding of this
complex case.

For a start, the witness testimony provided - from the likes of Penniston,
Halt and Burroughs - is all first-hand direct from them. That escalates
this book up a notch, surely? I make abundantly clear why I consider them
the most reliable and what problems I have with the comments of both Larry
Warren and "Steve Roberts". Indeed, at no point does Nigel even indicate
that I express grave doubts that Roberts was even involved and am well
aware of the "disinformation" aspect to his story-telling. The innuendo is
I fell for his tall tales when I patently did not. His question as to why
someone from USAF public affairs should want ufologists to accept tall
tales about aliens is answered in the book, by my pointing out that if a
more mundane but covert explanation for the events exists then the
fostering of alien stories on base (and off via ufology) had a positive
effect. It helped to create precisely the climate of sloppy disinterest in
what took place that Nigel now so perfectly demonstrates. I do not consider
my seeing of this to be gullible. But I do suspect that the powers that be
counted on the attitude of British ufology to believe that if a case smells
like an alien contact then it ain't to be trusted or to be touched with a
ten-foot pole.
As for my presentation of multiple scenarios, Nigel likens these to
conclusions as slippery as grease. What he does not say is that my book is
written in the following way. First I report all the evidence, via witness
testimony, the documents, and the physical evidence, presenting the pros
and cons of each (in the process killing some sacred cows like the
radiation and marks on trees). Then I go step by step through the
investigation process as I have always been taught to do. This means
considering one by one the possibilities - from the simplest to the most
bizarre. So we look at mistaken identity (lighthouse, etc.) through
aircraft activity and more debatable military practices (e.g. the Cold
Witness/Cobra Mist experiments) and on to the claims of ufology that the
case is an alien contact. Assessing each option, showing in what way it
works and in what way it does not reflects not so much me keeping my
options open, failing to decide or trying to have it every which way at
once. It is merely presenting readers with the facts and all options and
doing my job as an investigator to try to pick my way through the
possibilities.

I guess Nigel would only have been happy if I had written a book
seeking to prove the whole case collapses as a combination of
lighthouse/meteor/rabbit IFOs. Alternatively, most of ufology
would have been happy (and so would my bank manager!) if I had
set out to prove the aliens had landed in a smoky white
spaceship. In some ways I do both. But unfortunately, the
reality of this case is that the evidence is not cut and dried
in any direction. I show why the second night's events are, in
my view, more likely to be mistaken identity. I show why the
first night's story is more open to other interpretations. I
also do not just magic out of thin air the ideas about Cobra
Mist, as if I had simply invented this daft idea about a covert
experiment. At no point does Nigel mention the evidence I
unravel about the NASA programme to develop an over-the-horizon
radar on Orford Ness, the scientific puzzles about the changes
to the orbital decay path of a Soviet rocket that night, or the
views of space scientists on the matter. I present this option
because, and only because, it fits a number of the facts
surprisingly well. If indeed a by-product of a defensive weapon
was - as I suggest - the accidental discovery of a crude
offensive beam weapon, then I am not in the least surprised if
this was tested on a night when a rocket was burning up on a
flight path over the forest. As I point out in the book, it was
the perfect moment to conduct such a test, because anything that
did happen would superficially seem indistinguishable from what
was supposed to occur anyway. Of course, if airmen then saw the
beam in action it would also justify the spinning of yarns about
aliens to ensure that the media and ufologists switched off from
seeking out the more down-to-earth truth. They would either
rubbish the whole case (like Nigel seems to want to do) or go
chasing non-existent spaceships instead.

So, no, I don't know what happened and I am still eager to find
out one day. What I do know is that the truth is far more
complicated than Nigel (or most sceptics) seems to think it was.
The case is, in fact, a terrific one because it has so much
going on. There is misidentification, distortion, exaggeration
and probably confabulation. There are government botch-ups and
cover-ups. But at the heart of it there is at least a prima
facie case for suspecting that the nefarious activities of the
NSA on Orford Ness were not unconnected with what took place at
the start of this weekend of confusion.

Roswell was, and is, little more than a few bits of crashed foil
and wood misidentified at the time, later correctly identified
but obscured by the USAF desire not to go public with their
experiments of the day. Rendlesham is ufology in microcosm.
Almost the entire subject is there in one case. I wish I could
honestly say that it was all just a bunch of spaced-out airmen
chasing a lighthouse and then fooling themselves for 20 years.
Whilst - as I have never shirked from admitting - some of it
clearly is, I believe there is rather too much going on in the
background to claim game, set and match. Nigel, I fear, made his
mind up 15 years ago and I hope he can at least ask himself the
question - might I not be wrong? Anyone who has read my articles
on this case even since Friend or Foe? was published in January
1998 (see Northern UFO News and International UFO Reporter) will
know that I am constantly reviewing my position as new evidence
seems to constantly develop. As a UFO investigator, the day you
stop letting the evidence dictate what you believe and being
willing to change from belief to scepticism (or indeed vice
versa) is the day you ought to quit. It always puzzles me why
keeping an open mind is regarded in some quarters as a crime
worse than making it up prematurely in a way that proves to be
dead wrong. Jenny Randles, Buxton, Derbyshire

Nigel Watson replies: I am shocked to discover that the Roswell
case amounts to "a few bits of crashed foil and wood
misidentified at the time" whereas Rendlesham offers a better
chance of getting to the truth.

Surprisingly, this better, newer and more enlightening case, by
Jenny's own admission, is full of "misidentification,
distortion, exaggeration and probably confabulation. There are
government botch ups and cover ups". To me that could equally be
applied as a description of the Roswell case; it certainly does
not sound like a better route to the truth!

The twists and turns of Rendlesham are of obvious fascination
for Jenny. She indicates that some military operations or
experiments were being conducted, and that the UFO story has
been put about to get rid of closed-minded sceptics like me.

From such a scenario we must conclude that Jenny is acting as a
subversive agent who is actively willing to reveal the secrets
of our Government, just to satisfy her curiosity for the
"truth". Where is her social responsibility? Will she accept
that she is an urban guerilla who is undermining our political,
social, military and economic structure? Isn't that a crime
worse than being merely closed-minded?

________________________________________________________________

MAGONIA Monthly Supplement is available on the Magonia web site,
with printed copies sent to the favoured few. Letters and short
articles welcome. Letters will be considered for publication
unless otherwise indicated. Please send all contributions to the
Editor: John Harney, 27 Enid Wood House, High Street, Bracknell,
Berkshire RG12 1LN  UK

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mark Pilkington

"A heathen perhaps, but not, I hope, an unenlightened one."
Lord Summerisle
------------------------------------------------
Magonia Online

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 14

                                ELFIS UpDate

From: Stephen Lewis <stephen.lewis@tsl.state.tx.us>
Date: 14 Apr 1999 17:00:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:01:22 -0400
Subject: ELFIS UpDate


Howdy from Tejas and ELFIS,

This is SMiles Lewis, founder of ELFIS and the UFOU. It has
been a while since this e-mail list went out, and this is an
intermediary transmission to notify all of up-coming changes at
E.L.F. Infested Spaces. But first a few announcements:

1) Starting with our next issue (#9) ELFIS will have a new
Senior Editor at the helm, Byron M. Beyer. A fellow seeker,
researcher and writer, Byron is no stranger to the "phenomenon"
and the questions it raises.  He will be assisting me at ELFIS
with everything from art design to html coding. Please extend a
warm welcome for his incredible efforts to get ELFIS back on
track: mailto:elfis.ed@angelfire.com

2) Half way through our next quarterly On-line issue, ELFIS will
again become a  subscriber driven magazine. When we made the
transition from print to the web, we always intended to
eventually become a subscription e-zine, and the time has nearly
arrived. Portions of each issue will remain free to the public,
however the "meat and marrow" will only be accessible through
the member portal. Future transmissions will confirm
subscription/membership costs and benefits.

3) Engulfing the renewed subscriber-driven format will be a
brand new look for E.L.F. INFESTED SPACES Journal of Possible
Paradigms. The site is currently experiencing a grand makeover
with the artistic help of our new editor, Byron Beyer. Wait till
you see it!

4) One of the first and best new features of our new site will
be the Researcher Dialogue Department, wherein we tackle a
specific question important to the understanding of the UFO and
related phenomena. Researcher Dialogue will serve as a forum for
new ideas about the exploration of possible paradigms; a place
where diverse opinions can comingle to bring about new avenues
for research.  We've asked some of the best brains out there to
give us their opinion on a different topic each issue.  Our
esteemed panel for Issue 9 includes Greg Bishop, Harv Howard,
Jim Keith, Thom Laaki, Eugenia Macer-Story, Steve Mizrach, Peter
Stenshoel, Tim Brigham, Robert Larson, myself, and the
irrascible Mr. Baggins, among others.

Our first question to this fine assortment of questors is:

Given the proliferation in recent years of ufo / paranormal /
dreamtime imagery in the media (VW's "Reverse Engineered From
UFO's" ad comes glaringly to mind), do you feel that this is
actually changing or affecting the phenomenon itself? Is the
mass-media consciousness causing the UFO phenomenon to change
the way it interfaces with us?

5) Another announcement is my recent appointment as MUFON State
Section Director for Travis and Williamson Counties. I've
created a home page for the new Austin MUFON Chapter at
http://www.elfis.net/AUSTIN/MUFON/ There you will find recent
announcements and information of note regarding the Austin UFO
scene.

This Saturday the 17th from 1-3 pm I will be speaking at the
FringeWare Bookstore at 2716 Guadalupe street, kicking off the
first in a continuing series of presentations to the local
community. Each month we will be hosting the best speakers and
authors offering there own unique perspectives on the
phenomenon. The mailing list features updates on local events
and speakers-Subscribe here: http://AustinMUFON.listbot.com

So, if you are in Austin this weekend, please stop by and join
us at FringeWare. Or if you are interested in speaking at one of
our local meetings please feel free to contact me.

SMiles Lewis
     mailto:elfis@io.com
E.L.F. Infested Spaces
     http://www.elfis.net
Elfis List
     http://elfis.listbot.com
Austin MUFON List
     http://AustinMUFON.listbot.com





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 14

                  Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:08:24 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:50:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...


>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:06:22 -0400

>>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:05:56 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Aliens Among Us - & Other Thoughts...

>>As for the text of Dr. Olavo T. Fontes' letter, I probably have
>>a complete copy at my father's home in Ottawa where I have many
>>of my UFO books, periodicals and papers. A slightly edited
>>version of this letter, dated February 27, 1958, can be found
>>in William S. Steinman's and Wendelle C. Stevens' excellent
>>book "UFO Crash at Aztec" (pages 179 to 187).

>Nick,

>Without doubting anything else you've been saying in your
>Ubatuba posts, I'd be curious to know why you call this book
>"excellent."

>I'd call it an unintentional UFO comedy. There's no doubt that
>Steinman was utterly sincere, but his attempt to prove a UFO
>crashed in Aztec comes up empty. (The comedy, I'm afraid, is
>that he goes on for hundreds of pages, apparently unaware that
>he's striking out.)

>While there's ample evidence that something (whatever it may
>have been) happened at Roswell, neither Steinman nor anyone else
>has been able to show that any Aztec incident of any kind ever
>took place.

>Greg Sandow

Hi Greg.

There are a few UFO books which I enjoy reading over and over
again (eg. Dr. Paul R. Hill's "Unconventional Flying Objects")
while there are many more UFO books which I had to make a
special effort to read through just once (eg. Michael Wolf's
"The Catchers of Heaven"). William Steinman's book "UFO Crash
at Aztec" (with contributions from Wendelle Stevens) is in my
former group of UFO books.

Considering the hundreds of new UFO books (including many old ones
back in print), weight for weight, few are as fact filled as "UFO
Crash at Aztec". There are many facts about UFOs and ufology as
well as new leads for further research that I have found in this
book (most not even directly related to Aztec). This is why I
said it was an excellent UFO book, even without an index.

As for proving that a UFO did crash at Aztec, I was a skeptic
before reading William Steinman book and was still a skeptic
afterwards - but a much more sympathetic one.

There are an awful lot of other UFO books out there that are
just plain awful. Many of these I would include in the
"unintentional UFO comedy" or even the "unintentional UFO joke"
category but I do not want to mention which ones they are, here.
These UFO books of dubious value seem to have taken over most of
the shelf space in the UFO section of my favourite bookstores
that I sometimes feel embarrassed when I'm seen browsing there.

I regret there are not a lot more UFO researchers like William
Steinman writing UFO books instead of the many new authors who
are little more than UFO story tellers and who have little new
material or insights to contribute in ufology.

Nick Balaskas







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   Apr > Apr 14

               Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A

From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:12:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:53:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A


>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:58:32 EDT
>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>Once again you have selected only one example to present your
>case. Budd Hopkins has thousands. Many of which are multiple
>witness cases, as an example, the so called "Brooklyn Bridge"
>case which occured in Manhattan, not far from the Gripple Works,
>by the by.

Sorry, but the Linda Napolitano case is _not_ a multiple witness
case, despite all the hype. There is no person on earth - other
than Linda - who can stand up in front of us and say "I saw a
UFO abduct a woman out of her apartment window in in New York
City..."

There are only alleged messages from alleged witnesses. In terms
of first hand evidence, the Napolitano case is weaker than
Adamski and most of the contactees of the fifties. There is
_no-one_, repeat _no-one_, who I can talk to who will give me a
first-hand account of the case, other than Linda. If this is the
best the abductionists can come up with as a multi-witness case,
they may as well pack up now.

--
John Rimmer
www.magonia.demon.co.uk
Abandon hope all ye who press Enter here






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 14

               Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A

From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet@chucara.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:18:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:05:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A


Hi All,


>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100

>As a newcomer to the net, please excuse me if I do not follow
>proper etiquette. I am still learning. But I wanted to issue a
>comment on a major policy in force in the UK, which does not
>seem to have been adopted by any other country in the world
>(save, to some extent, parts of Scandinavia). That is the
>banning of the use of regression hypnosis as a viable way to
>explore alleged abductions.

<snip>

>of false memory syndrome and the lawsuit potential of regressing
>children - has done nothing but prove that we were right.

I personaly agree with your argumentation, and I know of many
others who do, but how can we regulate what others do?

The problem is that simple!



Jacques Poulet
Phone: (514) 913-0274

http://www.chucara.com/

Fortean Files CDROM   http://members.tripod.com/jpoulet/

CHUCARA
Box 61
La Prairie, Qc
Canada  J5R 3Y1






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 14

               Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:00:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:13:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A


>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100

>As a newcomer to the net, please excuse me if I do not follow
>proper etiquette. I am still learning.

Hi, Jenny! Welcome to the list. This is an excellent post and
you have nothing to worry about.

>But I wanted to issue a
>comment on a major policy in force in the UK, which does not
>seem to have been adopted by any other country in the world
>(save, to some extent, parts of Scandinavia). That is the
>banning of the use of regression hypnosis as a viable way to
>explore alleged abductions.

I have always been in favor of this, and I have, on occasion,
mentioned my agreement with the BUFORA policy and my admiration
for BUFORA having taken this stand. I also state to any abductee
or possible abductee who speaks to me, whether they ask or not,
that I recommend against the use of hypnosis, do recommend they
see a conventional therapist, and if they do decide to undergo
hypnosis that they do so under the care of a therapist.

I am basically wary of using a poorly understood technique that
induces a poorly understood mental state as a way of studying an
unknown phenomenon. Aren't things hard enough without it?

I am even more wary, since hypnosis' original claim to fame was
post-hypnotic suggestion. I find it difficult to appreciate the
certaintly with which investigators assert that they have found
techniques which prevent suggestibility from being a problem.

Your point about the need for testing hypnotic recall against
confirmable events is especially well taken.

But you are right - as Dr. Jacobs has stated, the technique is
viewed as the only way to get "inside" the objects. I fear the
temptation to do so is too great, and has not been resisted,
despite the dangers.

I believe that there is some understanding of this issue among
the more sophisticated investigators of such material, but,
nevertheless, it is not of paramount importance to them.

I am also concerned that problems with hypnosis may be the
reason for the current boom in abductions (Jacobs claims that
one abductee was taken 54 times in 8 months) and claims that
UFOs must be able to become invisible (broached by Hopkins at
the IF conference). If so, the abduction data base may well be
being rapidly contaminated with spurious events.

And, naturally, one must be primarily concerned about the
results for the abductee of having false experiences made part
of their lives.

I hope everyone will think carefully about what you've said
here.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------






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   Apr > Apr 15

               Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:19:39 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:55:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A


>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:18:26 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet@chucara.com>
>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?

>Hi All,

>>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?
>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100

>>As a newcomer to the net, please excuse me if I do not follow
>>proper etiquette. I am still learning. But I wanted to issue a
>>comment on a major policy in force in the UK, which does not
>>seem to have been adopted by any other country in the world
>>(save, to some extent, parts of Scandinavia). That is the
>>banning of the use of regression hypnosis as a viable way to
>>explore alleged abductions.

><snip>

>>of false memory syndrome and the lawsuit potential of regressing
>>children - has done nothing but prove that we were right.

>I personaly agree with your argumentation, and I know of many
>others who do, but how can we regulate what others do?

>The problem is that simple!

>Jacques Poulet

Msr. Poulet, je ne said pas que vous dire... as he fumbles madly
for his high school French book and instead, finds a Swissa
Deutch primer...

Why sir, would you wish to _regulate_ what others do?  Me thinks
this may very well be an error on the side of language.  I
certainly hope so. For I would not wish to be regulated or
controlled by anyone or any entity.  Which is why I dislike
aliens.

To regulate: a verb intransitive, acknowledging Merriam Webster
for his erudition...

 1 a : to govern or direct according to rule

   b (1) : to bring under the control of law or constituted
           authority

     (2) : to make regulations for or concerning <~ the
           industries of a country>

 2 : to bring order, method, or uniformity to <~ one's habits>

 3 : to fix or adjust the time, amount, degree, or rate of <~
     the pressure of a tire>

I vote for Gripple Works to regulate Hippy Noses.  All in favor?

Gesundt






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   Apr > Apr 15

                               Re: Open Letter

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:11:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:09:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Open Letter


>From: Geri DeStefano & Alfred Webre <spirit@canada.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:00:13 -0400 (EDT)
>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Open Letter

>Dear Listers - We wanted to share with you an Open Letter,
>being sent to extraterrestrial activists, [etc.]

"Extraterrestrial activists"? This is an expression actually
used in English?

Makes me want to smoke and drink. "Environmental activists" --
fine, the environment exists, and needs all the help we can give
it. Extraterrestrials, on the other hand...

Greg Sandow






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               Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:26:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:16:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A


>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100

>As a newcomer to the net, please excuse me if I do not follow
>proper etiquette. I am still learning.

I'm sure I'm not alone in welcoming Jenny Randles both to the
net, and to this list. I'm glad to see her here.

Having said that, I'm going to buck the trend, and suggest a
more positive view of hypnosis.

>I appreciate how this seems to work like a magic key unlocking
>the secrets of a case and making a light in the sky into a
>fantastic alien contact.

This strikes me as a somewhat simplified statement of a rather
complex issue.

We can criticize Budd Hopkins and some other abduction
researchers -- I've already done that, in my essay "The
Abduction Conundrum," which appears in the current issue of The
Anomalist -- for not stating the problems with hypnosis in their
books. In The Threat, though, Dave Jacobs devotes quite a bit of
space to the problems of hypnotic confabulation. And it's
precisely because of the dangers of confabulation that neither
Budd nor Dave think that hypnosis works "like a magic key" in
"unlocking the secrets" of any single case.

If, in other words, you hypnotize any single abductee, you have
no way of judging whether any story that emerges is true. But
what if more than one abductee tells the same story? That's what
serious abduction research is looking for -- stories that appear
to confirm each other. This of course raises questions of
investigators leading abductees -- or abductees repeating
stories they've read or heard -- but let's at least get the
principle straight. Nobody whom I'd consider a serious abduction
investigator is going to start where Jenny Randles starts us
here, with the notion that hypnosis is a magic key. Budd Hopkins
and Dave Jacobs say they won't accept any part of an abduction
scenario that isn't independently confirmed by more than one
abductee. Their position, in other words, isn't that hypnosis
gives us completely truthful stories. Rather, they picture a
situation in which all sorts of random information floats upward
from hypnosis sessions. Out of the vague cloud of uncheckable
data, a few details eventually solidify, details that seem more
reliable because more than one abductee mentions them.

Given the many other problems with abduction research -- and the
many other charges made about hypnosis -- this may strike some
critics as an unconvincing distinction. But I think it's
important to begin the discussion with an accurate picture, and
not with the radically simplified picture (something of a straw
man, really) that Jenny Randles sets up here.

And while I'm drawing fine distinctions, I might note that few
if any abduction cases go directly from a light in the sky to
hypnosis. Almost every abductee -- at least in the circles I
move in -- has conscious memories of abduction-like experiences.
Budd and Dave don't go around hypnotising people who've had
nothing more than a simple UFO sighting. It's a little troubling
to read something that outlines a sober, rigorous policy on an
important issue, but which begins with statements whose
implications aren't wholly accurate.

>There are many sound reasons for having doubts about the value
>of hypnosis as a tool for uncovering the facts. Many of the
>pioneers of the field recognised this and issued warnings that
>were rarely heeded.

Yes, and current psychology research strongly states that
hypnosis doesn't enhance memory. Worse yet, researchers say that
hypnotized subjects convince themselves, incorrectly, that their
memories are accurate.

But how accurate is this research? This is a question that we've
debated here before, and which I've discusssed at some length in
my essay "The Abduction Conundrum," published in the current
issue of The Anomalist. Briefly, the problem -- as stated by
psychologists with contrary views -- is this. All this research
is conducted by experimental psychologists in laboratory
settings. All it definitively proves is that hypnotized subjects
don't remember meaningless data any better than subjects who
aren't hypnotized.

But what's being measured? The usefulness of hypnosis, or the
ability of people to remember things they don't care about,
under _any_ circumstances? What has _not_ been studied is
whether hypnosis might help people recover memories of genuine
traumatic events. (On this, and on hypnosis generally, see
Stuart Appelle's paper on the abduction evidence in the last --
maybe the last ever, alas -- issue of the Journal of UFO
Studies.) There are in fact papers in psychology journals that
appear to show hypnosis recovering important memories in
real-life situations. (See my essay in The Anomalist for
citations.)

>Firstly, I underwent regression myself - to both a UFO event
>and other events that could be checked factually (as the UFO
>sighting - no big deal by itself - could not). Under hypnosis I
>saw images and described them but at least half the checkable
>facts (like day of week and reason for being in a certain town)
>were proven wrong.

This isn't remarkable. Anyone who's read the literature on
hypnosis in psychology journals would have predicted that would
happen. But there's a further question that needs to be asked.
If some details were wrong, were others right? Under some
circumstances, those right details could be more important than
the wrong ones. For examples, see the papers I mentioned above.
Yes, details recovered under hypnosis need to be checked. But
there appear to be cases, some quite dramatic, where some
details that emerged did in fact prove both accurate, and
crucially important.

>As a result any testimony on a completely unverifiable
>story like a UFO contact will provide at least some
>evidence that is false - and perhaps a lot of it. Yet we as a
>community are treating it all as reality.

This, surely, is an overstatement, for the reasons I've already
stated in detail. The crucial word is "all." Responsible
abduction investigators don't accept "all" alleged evidence that
emerges from hypnosis. They aren't "treating it all as reality."

>Secondly, witnesses told me more than once they felt worse after
>undergoing regression than they did before. It did not clarify
>their memory but created new, conflicting images about which
>they could not make fair judgements. It also triggered many
>nightmares they did not have before. One classic abductee (Alan
>Godfrey - November l980 - Todmorden, Yorkshire) is in the list
>of top CE 4s compiled by Eddie Bullard. But he told me that he
>could not vouch for his testimony under hypnosis. This is a
>confusing mix of abduction imagery and stuff about Biblical
>figures and black dogs. There is no doubt where some of this
>came from if you probe into Alan's past. The point is that he -
>as a witness - could not be sure that this was a real memory or
>just a fantasy based on books he had read between the sighting
>and the hypnosis. I doubt he is alone but I also doubt few
>UFOlogists create a climate with witnesses in which they feel
>they can express any such reservations. A lot of people are
>swept along by a tide of belief.

I have many problems with this paragraph. First, the statements
are somewhat vague and hugely general. "I doubt he is alone....I
also doubt few UFOologists create...A lot of people are swept
along...." Who, exactly are we talking about? What proportion of
ufologists? How many people? Which people?

Second, the evidence we're offered here is nothing more than a
collection of anecdotes. ("Witnesses have told me more than
once....") I can offer anecdotes of my own, about abductees who
were hugely helped by hypnosis, who said they felt far better
afterward than they had before. So now it's my anecdotes against
Jenny's. Not a very useful situation for serious research.

But since I do have anecdotes, let me go into a little more
detail. I've heard abductees say many times that they're not
sure their hypnotically-retrieved information is correct. That
hasn't made them unhappy, though. They're able to live with the
ambiguity. At the recent New York abduction conference, John
Velez said quite firmly that he was reserving judgement on what
he came up with under hypnosis, but the hypnosis had been very
helpful, because it let him release great amounts of buried
emotion about what he feels are his abductions (some of which he
remembers consciously).

My anecdotes against Jenny's. I'm sure both sets of anecdotes
are true. And also useless, without much more data.

>Thirdly, there are too many people with no medical
>qualifications doing regression - sometimes on children. In one
>UK case a witness I know had an epileptic seizure during
>regression to a childhood sighting. Nobody present had medical
>backgrounds. Luckily the witness was okay, but the point was
>surely made that in our zeal to get exciting stories the proper
>importance of witness welfare is being neglected.

And how do we know hypnosis caused the seizure? Maybe there's
more here that Jenny isn't telling us, but all I read in her
statement are still more anecdotes.

I don't doubt that there are dangers when hypnosis is used to
explore any material as emotional as abductions (whether the
abductions are real or imaginary). But we need far more
information before we can make useful judgements. Have Budd
Hopkins or Raymond Fowler or Dave Jacobs or John Carpenter or
John Mack or Yvonne Smith had ghastly reactions to their
hypnosis sessions, of the kind Jenny describes here? How about
therapists who use hypnosis to uncover memories -- many of them
spurious -- of sexual abuse, or satanic ritual abuse? Do their
case histories show horrible reactions to hypnosis?

How much data do we actually have?

>Luckily the witness was okay, but the point was
>surely made that in our zeal to get exciting stories the proper
>importance of witness welfare is being neglected.

"Our" zeal? Who's being talked about here?

Note also the rapid generalization from one case. We have one
person who's alleged to have suffered from hypnosis, and
suddenly witness welfare "is" being neglected apparently
everywhere. (Present tense, implying a general condition.)

Let me now step back from the strong criticisms I've made, to
say that the points Jenny raises are deeply serious and
important, and that I admire her compassion for the people she
feels have suffered from abuses of hypnosis. There may also be
many details I don't know about. There really may be a "mad dash
towards using regression everywhere" in the UK, involving
excesses I don't know about. Maybe there's also such a "mad
dash" here in the US, with similar excesses. I may not have all
the information I need.

Let me, though, mention another area where hypnosis has been
widely used, with no apparent ill effects. All over America,
innocent college students are being hypnotized, and asked to
remember scenes described by the hypnotiststs as troubling and
emotional, scenes that often involve crime and violence. These
hypnotists have absolutely no medical training -- and yet they
apparently feel free to hypnotize anyone they choose, without
regard for any dangerous effect the hypnosis might have.

Who are these hypnotists? Why, they're the very experimental
psychologists I mentioned earlier, the ones whose research seems
to show that hypnosis can't enhance memory! Originally, their
research used information without emotional content -- lists of
random words, for instance, that their experimental subjects
(always students at the unversities where the research was
conducted) were shown, and asked two weeks later to remember.
This research was criticized on precisely the grounds I
mentioned above, because the information was meaningless. So the
psychologists started to use more emotionally charged data --
films, for instance, showing violent crime.

Never mind that the details in the films might not be remembered
with quite the force of details in crimes that really did occur.
The point is that these experimental subjects were purposely
shown disturbing things, and then hypnotized at a later date to
extract the emotionally troubling information. The psychologists
who conduct this research are experimental psychologists, not
clinical psychologists. They have no medical or psychiatric
qualifications. They're not therapists. They're not trained to
screen out subjects with psychological disturbances.

And yet nobody objects to their research. None of their subjects
seem to get derailed. I understand that a supposed abductee is
in a far more emotionally vulnerable position -- but we
shouldn't forget that these psychologists intentionally tried to
place their subjects in emotionally vulnerable situations. If
hypnosis is so dangerous, where are the traumas, the damage, and
the seizures resulting from all this research? (I'll grant, of
course, that abduction research is much more intimate, since
abductees talk under hypnosis about things they actually think
may have happened to them. I've seen abductee regressions, and
seen the huge emotions that can be released. Still, I think my
piont is generally valid.)

>I do feel that events since BUFORA took our stand - such as the
>rise in understanding of false memory syndrome and the lawsuit
>potential of regressing children - has done nothing but prove
>that we were right.


False memory syndrome is a huge can of worms. I'm not saying
that false memories can't be created, or that they haven't been
all but systematically created by incompetent therapists looking
for sexual abuse. This is a scandal.

But what are we to make of psychologists -- Elizabeth Loftus
being the most famous of them -- who doubt that memories ever
can be accurately recovered, and who even doubt that traumatic
memories are ever lost? It's interesting, to say the least, that
Loftus's work is cited over and over by recovered-memory
skeptics, who never mention serious, humane, responsible studies
on the other side of the question, by psychologists like Lenore
Terr and Jennifer Freyd. When you read Terr and Freyd, you learn
that there are cases of recovered memory when the memories could
be independently corroborated. You also learn that the recovered
memory skeptics tend to be experimental psychologists, and that
those on the other side tend to be clinical psychologists -- or,
in other words, that the psychologists who believe in recovered
memory tend to be the ones who actually work with human beings.

Loftus, by the way, demonstrated how false memories can be
created in a famous experiment, in which she persuaded young
children that they'd once been lost in a mall. She has no
medical or psychiatric qualifications. She didn't use hypnosis
-- but how did she know she wasn't picking troubled kids who
might be hurt by her research?

Greg Sandow






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   Apr > Apr 15

                  Re: Swinging Pendulum Object Reported In

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:51:46 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:23:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Swinging Pendulum Object Reported In

>From: Stan Gordon <paufo@westol.com>
>To: UFO Updates -Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>Subject: Swinging Pendulum Object Reported In Pennsylvania
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:30:16 -0400

>Swinging pendulum object reported in Pennsylvania
>From: UFO researcher Stan Gordon
>PA UFO Hotline (724-838-7768)
>Website: www.westol.com/~paufo

>This incident occurred near Latrobe, PA on the evening of April
>10, 1999.  The witness who is a law enforcement officer for a
>state agency, had taken a walk outside and at about 7:40 P.M.
>noticed a brilliant star-like object very high up in the sky.
>The observer indicated that what he saw looked similar to Venus,
>which he is used to seeing later in the evening, but towards the
>west.

>Curious about what he was seeing, the man ran inside and
>obtained his 10x50 binoculars. The object was moving slowly and
>steadily from northwest to southeast.  In the binoculars the
>actual shape of the object itself couldn't be determined, since
>the sun was reflecting off the body and it was extemely bright.
>But what was most interesting, was that hanging from the bottom
>of the brilliant object was a long appendage that "looked like a
>very long pole."  The witness felt that due to the very high
>altitude of the object, this part would have to have been very
>large for him to see it so clearly.

>This straight device gave the man the impression of a pendulum,
>since it was rotating under the object counter clockwise, but at
>times would remain straight down and stop. This mechanism which
>appeared solid, and always remained straight, was silver in
>color. There may have been some bumps or irregularites along the
>appendage.

>The object was observed for about 20 minutes. The witness was
>distracted from the observation for a short time, and when he
>tried to locate the object again, he was unable to locate it.
>This witness has seen NWS weather balloon packages, and is sure
>that this is not what he observed.

>If anyone is aware of any similar recent reports, please contact
>me.

Hi Stan,

It might possibly have been a large weather research balloon of
some sort whose top portion only was mostly inflated, the lower
part being uninflated and looking somewhat like a "stem", maybe,
supporting an instrument padkage. This would be in case the
balloon was not yet floating nearly as high as its final design
altitude at which it would then be fully inflated.

You should check out what the winds were between 20,000 and
30,000 ft to see if the winds were from the northwest. If they
were, that wouldn't prove anything, but would raise suspicions
somewhat.

Regards,

Jim





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   Apr > Apr 15

                Re: NASA Leonid Balloon Snagged Some Far-Out

From: YourName - Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:59:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:26:52 -0400
Subject: Re: NASA Leonid Balloon Snagged Some Far-Out


>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: NASA Leonid Balloon Snagged Some Far-Out Meteoroids
>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:46:40 GMT

>Source: Discovery (Channel) Online News,

>http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/brief1.html?ct=3713ed11

>Go to the site for NASA's animated sequence showing "microscopic
>slices of an impact crater discovered on the xerogel capture
>device. The crater measures 20-30 microns in diameter. The
>animation shows the crater at various depths."

>Stig

>***

>Tuesday, April 13, 1999

>Leonid Meteor Results In

>**

>For the first time ever, astronomers may have snagged meteoroids
>that originated outside the orbit of Uranus.

>At the NASA/Ames Leonid Workshop Tuesday, astronomer David
>Noever and his colleagues from the Marshall Space Flight Center
>describe tiny particles captured in flight above Earth.

>The study shows promise for an innovative method of meteoroid
>retrieval, and takes scientists closer to understanding the
>solar system at its adolescence.

<snip>

Stig,

This is a fascinating new discovery. In reference to cosmic dust
on the bottom of the ocean and in Antartica. Most people have no
idea that there is a continuous extraterrestrial dust invasion
on this earth. I once saw the astronomical figures for the
amount of cosmic dust that lands each year. Anyone recall the
weight in tons?






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   Apr > Apr 15

               Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A

From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:40:00 +0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:29:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A


>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100


<snip>

Hi Jenny,

I found your post very thought provoking.

>As a newcomer to the net, please excuse me if I do not follow
>proper etiquette. I am still learning. But I wanted to issue a
>comment on a major policy in force in the UK, which does not
>seem to have been adopted by any other country in the world
>(save, to some extent, parts of Scandinavia). That is the
>banning of the use of regression hypnosis as a viable way to
>explore alleged abductions.
>
>I appreciate how this seems to work like a magic key unlocking
>the secrets of a case and making a light in the sky into a
>fantastic alien contact. That is part of the problem, in fact.
>It has, of course, made a few reputations and fortunes as well.
>But is it what proper UFOlogists should be doing? Are we not, in
>fact, putting self interest ahead of what ought to be our
>primary duty - witness responsibility? As a community should we
>not be more willing to consider taking stands that may be tough
>on some but necessary?


Sure, absolutely, I agree.  In my opinion,
hypnosis has become the easy way to doing
research and getting results.  Chris Rutkowski
 mentioned -

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take a Stand?
To: updates@globalserve.net
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:33:44 -0500 (CDT)


>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100
>Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:50:44 -0400
>Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?

>Rather than "push the
>envelope" and explore the abductee's memories beyond conscious
>recall, the pyschologist has decided to work on relaxation
>techniques in order to help the abductee overcome his fears of
>"what's locked inside." With a lessening of the fear, the
>abductee may then _consciously_ recall more details.

This seems like a great and more reliable
alternative, but possibly slower, much slower
than hypnosis session.  It will always be the easy
way to coming up with details, whether true or false

It is extremely unfortunate that fully qualified
professional medical staff aren't always involved
Perhaps it is their lack of qualifications and
experience which maybe be tainting the process
and therefore the outcome.

>Comments requested, please,


Just my 2 cents, But is there really that
much that we can do besides being vocal?

>Jenny Randles


Cheers

SharonK





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   Apr > Apr 15

                               Re: Open Letter

From: YourName - Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 03:13:16 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:33:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Open Letter


>From: Geri DeStefano & Alfred Webre <spirit@canada.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:00:13 -0400 (EDT)
>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Open Letter

>Dear Listers - We wanted to share with you an Open Letter, being
>sent to extraterrestrial activists, as well as
>environmentalists, in Eastern Europe, the Americas, the European
>Union, Asia & Africa.

>It is not often that extraterrestrially-interested people and
>environmentalists collaborate. However, environmental war cuts
>across our superficially different concerns. We have concluded
>that human environmental war and its destructive impact on the
>Earth may be a concern of the extraterrestrial initiative to the
>planet, and of natural environmentalists everywhere. The Open
>Letter is also posted at: http://www.universebooks.com.

>Please-how do you feel?

<snip>

Well Geri and Alfred -

How do I feel? I'll restrain myself and try to say this nicely.
I read your open letter and I went to Universe Books and read
the excerpts for Alfred's trilogy. I suspect that if your letter
reaches the United Nations it will go no further than the
circular file where other letters from psychotic cranks end up.
I wish you well. By that I mean that I hope you get under the
care of a competent therapist and have medicine prescribed that
stops your delusions. Otherwise I fear you will soon be back in
the psychiatric ward where the "Universe Administration" does
not seem to protect you from "invasive rays". However, in there
you may find many people with a keen interest in your  books. I
hope you find mental health. Please try to seek it.

First, please call Art Bell. I think he will invite you on his
radio show. You may be the best guests he has had on his show.
His audience will consider you celebrities. They may sign your
letter, and order books like there is no tomorrow. You will feel
right at home. Richard Hoagland is also a very frequent guest
and he is likely to become a champion supporter of your efforts.
Also, please contact SLOBodon Milosevic in Serbia. He is very
worried about environmental bombs as is Saddam Hussein (unless
he is building them). They will enjoy your books and gain great
insight. They are willing to give the U.N. pieces of their minds
whenever asked. Please hurry, I don't know if they have many
pieces left.

Until then you can protect yourself from EMP emitted from
environmental weapons by placing a cone composed of six diagonal
layers of aluminum foil alternating with plastic wrap on your
head. Please cover it with a good cap so that the government
does not see it and come after you.

Josh

p.s. Dr. Gesundt, the esteemed fount of Gripple wisdom, may
offer much needed advice after reading your letter and viewing
your site. Please seek out his counsel if he is not forthcoming.
He is very shy and dispenses his pearls of wisdom carefully. He
will no doubt feel you are worthy. IN NO CASE mix psychotropic
medications with Gripple. Dr. Gesundt just may be able to slip
Khofi Annan some Gripple so that he will be more receptive when
your letter is presented to him at U.N. Headquarters.





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   Apr > Apr 15

               Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:16:49 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:35:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A


>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100

>As a newcomer to the net, please excuse me if I do not follow
>proper etiquette. I am still learning.

Welcome, Jenny!  Nice to meet you on the net, at last.

>But I wanted to issue a
>comment on a major policy in force in the UK, which does not
>seem to have been adopted by any other country in the world
>(save, to some extent, parts of Scandinavia). That is the
>banning of the use of regression hypnosis as a viable way to
>explore alleged abductions.

The Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi
Ufologici, CISU) adopted that same banning a long time ago
(1988), exactly because we were agree with what BUFORA had the
braveness to decide.

In November, 1988, we had a closed-door symposium in Bologna
where a group of our field investigators and of active members
interested in hypnosis met a group of M.D.'s using hypnosis in
their medical practice, all of them being members of one (of the
four existing) Italian association of medical hypnosis, who were
also curious about UFO abductions and the use of hypnosis in
ufology.

We gathered a firm caveat against the use of hypnosis as a
regressive tool for getting factual information (something we
already expected, from the available literature we've been
systematically collecting in a file since 1981) and - most
important - since there was a concrete risk of stimulating
confabulation and to bring greater emotional troubles than
before upon the "victim".

We already had collected a thick file of mis-use of abduction in
some Italian cases.

We thus decided not to use hypnosis and not to encourage either
witnesses or potential abductees to be submitted to regressive
hypnosis.

Recent developments confirmed our viewpoint, expecially since a
book was written by a scientist-ufologist who has "devoted" some
years of his life to an abduction case, also through the use of
hypnosis. The book made it clear that the greater part of what
is NOW that abduction narrative (but was NOT such before
hypnosis) had just been "created" upon
not-so-difficult-to-perceive suggestions by the "exper-
imenter".

A short review of that particular case and its implication for
the hypnosis debate was recently published in one of CISU
journals, "UFO Forum", by Alessandro Zabini, who has been busily
collecting documentation about that subject and is presently
updating my old bibliography and file on "hypnosis and UFOs".

So you are not alone, nor is BUFORA as a national UFO
organization.

Best regards


Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it





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   Apr > Apr 15

                     Sighting Reports From New Zealand?

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:02:31 +1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:39:21 -0400
Subject: Sighting Reports From New Zealand?


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail  tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw/new

****************************************************************
UFO Australian  Research Network Hot Line Number
                       1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************


Hi,

I need help with sighting reports.

Would anyone have any sighting reports from New Zealand?

January1999 to April 1999

If so could you please pass them on to the UFO UpDates list or

tkbnetw@fan.net.au

I hope you can help.

Regards,

Diane Harrison






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                        'New Solar System Discovered'

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:30:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:44:02 -0400
Subject: 'New Solar System Discovered'


"Astronomers have discovered the first solar system other
than our own. It has three planets orbiting a star that is 44
light years away".

"The discovery of a group of planets orbiting a sun like our own
will cause great excitement and raises the chances that there
may be other  forms of life in the Universe".


The full the story is at URL:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_319000/319865.stm


See also:

From: AN NewsAlert <newsalert@astronow.cix.co.uk>
Subject: Major astronomical news story today!
Sender: <NewsAlert@astrolists.demon.co.uk>
Precedence: Bulk

ASTRONOMY NOW NEWSALERT: Thursday, April 15, 1999 @ 1320 GMT

Sponsored by the Astronomy Now Store -
http://astronomynowstore.com

MAJOR ASTRONOMICAL NEWS STORY TODAY

A major astronomical news story will break later today.
Scientists are describing this as an "extraordinary finding".

Check Astronomy Now Online's Breaking News page for the full
details at 1700 GMT/1800 BST/1300 EDT.

FULL STORY: http://www.astronomynow.com/breaking.html



James.
Email: pulsar@easynet.co.uk





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   Apr > Apr 15

               Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:49:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:46:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A


>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100


Hello Jenny,

You wrote:

>As a newcomer to the net, please excuse me if I do not follow
>proper etiquette. I am still learning. But I wanted to issue a
>comment on a major policy in force in the UK, which does not
>seem to have been adopted by any other country in the world
>(save, to some extent, parts of Scandinavia). That is the
>banning of the use of regression hypnosis as a viable way to
>explore alleged abductions.

This is an example of how a good idea can be taken too far. I
completely agree that hypnosis is -way- overused in cases of
reported abduction. But, it does have some therapeutic value in
cases where disturbing or life disrupting symptoms have
manifested as a result of unresolved missing time or a partially
recalled close encounter with a UFO. Providing some relief from
suffering should be the first and maybe only consideration when
deciding on the use of hypnosis in any given case. Its use as a
reliable means of retrieving accurate data is what is in
question. Not its efficacy as a therapeutic tool.

Outright "banning" of hypnosis is like throwing out the baby
with the bathwater. In point of fact, its use in abduction cases
may be the 'field test' that proves its value (or lack of same)
in recovering lost or hidden memory. In its history hypnosis has
never been used as commonly as it is now. Before discarding it
completely studies should be mounted to determine just how
accurate it is in terms of recovered memory. I can state from
personal experience that it does provides relief from event
related symptomology and should be held in reserve, (rather than
have its use universally banned) in such cases.

>But is it what proper UFOlogists should be doing? Are we not, in
>fact, putting self interest ahead of what ought to be our
>primary duty - witness responsibility? As a community should we
>not be more willing to consider taking stands that may be tough
>on some but necessary?

The difference between investigating an abduction case as
opposed to a sighting case has to do with the level of
involvement of the witness. An abduction case crosses a line
that begs consideration for the individual and the condition of
his/her post experience psyche. In other words, there are (like
it or not) psychological and emotional issues that must be
addressed and taken seriously (in addition to) the original task
of investigating possible contact with 'whatever.' The human
factor comes to the fore (or should) in abduction cases. Primary
consideration should be given to the continued well being of the
individual under investigation. It's real easy to get caught up
in whether this or that proceedure is good or proper in terms of
investigation while the individuals needs are forgotten or get
lost in the shuffle.

>There are many sound reasons for having doubts about the value
>of hypnosis as a tool for uncovering the facts.

Agreed. I'm arguing for its value strictly as a therapeutic tool.

>Yet we as a community are treating it all as reality. Moreover
>we are encouraging witnesses and society to do so on dubious
>grounds.

Rather than completely discarding it, the huge amount of data
gathered thus far should be used to test/determine just how
accurate it really is in terms of memory retrieval. It's an
opportunity that should not be passed up or missed. The amount
of raw material availble for analysis is staggering. Why waste
it or ignore it completely.

>Secondly, witnesses told me more than once they felt worse after
>undergoing regression than they did before. It did not clarify
>their memory but created new, conflicting images about which
>they could not make fair judgements. It also triggered many
>nightmares they did not have before. One classic abductee (Alan
>Godfrey - November l980 - Todmorden, Yorkshire) is in the list
>of top CE 4s compiled by Eddie Bullard. But he told me that he
>could not vouch for his testimony under hypnosis. This is a
>confusing mix of abduction imagery and stuff about Biblical
>figures and black dogs. There is no doubt where some of this
>came from if you probe into Alan's past. The point is that he -
>as a witness - could not be sure that this was a real memory or
>just a fantasy based on books he had read between the sighting
>and the hypnosis. I doubt he is alone but I also doubt few
>UFOlogists create a climate with witnesses in which they feel
>they can express any such reservations. A lot of people are
>swept along by a tide of belief.

Valid but not true in all cases. The catharsis that it afforded
me brought tremendous relief. It also raised many more questions
than it ever answered. But I wouldn't trade off the emotional
relief it gave because of it. Each case, each individual must be
evaluated on his or her own merits. We shouldn't use one single
case or set of reactions to decide whether any given thing is
'good for all' or not.

>Thirdly, there are too many people with no medical
>qualifications doing regression - sometimes on children. In one
>UK case a witness I know had an epileptic seizure during
>regression to a childhood sighting. Nobody present had medical
>backgrounds. Luckily the witness was okay, but the point was
>surely made that in our zeal to get exciting stories the proper
>importance of witness welfare is being neglected.

Amen and my point precisely. The number one consideration should
always be the well being of the subject (in abduction cases)

>Comments requested, please,

You got em! :)

Peace,

John Velez, Webmaster IF-AIC/abductee

________________________________________________
                                jvif@spacelab.net
INTRUDERS FOUNDATION/ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER
                            http://www.if-aic.com/
"Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________






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                           P-1947 - Cuban Ufology?

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@PRODIGY.NET>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:38:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:54:09 -0400
Subject: P-1947 - Cuban Ufology?

I'm going to be in Cuba from April 21 to April 28, on musical
business. (I'm writing about classical music in Cuba for the Wall
Street Journal.)

Does anyone know any Cuban ufologists I might contact, if I have
time? Does anyone know, in general, about Cuban ufology?

Many thanks for any information,






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                Multiple Planets Found Around A Sun-Like Star

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:01:01
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:38:25 -0400
Subject: Multiple Planets Found Around A Sun-Like Star


Source: Astronomy Now's webpage on breaking news:

http://www.astronomynow.com/breaking/990415planetsx3/index.html

Stig

***

First system of multiple planets found around a sun-like star

SAN FRANCISCO STATE UNIVERSITY NEWS RELEASE

April 15, 1999

**

SAN FRANCISCO, April 15, 1999 Astronomers from four research
institutions have discovered strong evidence for a trio of
extrasolar planets that orbit the star Upsilon Andromedae. This
is the first multiple planet system ever found around a normal
star, other than the nine planets in our Solar System. The
closest planet in the Upsilon Andromedae system was detected in
1996 by San Francisco State University (SFSU) astronomers
Geoffrey Marcy and R. Paul Butler. Now, after 11 years of
telescope observations at Lick Observatory near San Jose, CA,
the signals of two additional planets have emerged from the
data. Therefore, Upsilon Andromedae harbors the first planetary
system that is reminiscent of our own Solar System.

In parallel, astronomers from the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for
Astrophysics (CfA) in Cambridge, MA and the High Altitude
Observatory (HAO) in Boulder, CO have independently found the
two outer planets around Upsilon Andromedae. This tea'as been
studying the star for more than four years at the Smithsonian's
Whipple Observatory near Tucson, AZ.

This first planetary system, found from a survey of 107 stars,
offers the first suggestion that planetary systems like our own
are abundant in our Milky Way Galaxy, which contains 200 billion
stars. SFSU researcher Debra Fischer said, "It implies that
planets can form more easily than we ever imagined, and that our
Milky Way is teeming with planetary systems."

The innermost (and previously known) of the three planets
contains at least three-quarters of the mass of Jupiter and
orbits only 0.06 AU from the star. (One "AU" equals the distance
from the Earth to the Sun). It traverses a circular orbit every
4.6 days. The middle planet contains at least twice the mass of
Jupiter and takes 242 days to orbit the star once. It resides
approximately 0.83 AU from the star, similar to the orbital
distance of Venus. The outermost planet has a mass of at least
four Jupiters and completes one orbit every 3.5 to 4 years,
placing it 2.5 AU from the star. The two outer planets are both
new discoveries and have elliptical (oval) orbits, a
characteristic of the nine other extrasolar planets in distant
orbits around their stars.

No current theory predicted that so many giant worlds would form
around a star. "I am mystified at how such a system of
Jupiter-like planets might have been created," said Marcy,
SFSU's Distinguished Professor of Science. "This will shake up
the theory of planet formation." Robert Noyes, a professor of
astronomy at Harvard-Smithsonian CfA and a member of the CfA-HAO
team, said, "A nagging question was whether the massive bodies
orbiting in apparent isolation around stars really are planets,
but now that we see three around the same star, it is hard to
imagine anything else."

Currently a staff astronomer at the Anglo-Australian
Observatory, Butler, an American, is the lead author of the
paper, submitted to the Astrophysical Journal, announcing the
triple planet system. Along with Marcy, Fischer, and Noyes, the
authors include Sylvain Korzennik, Peter Nisenson, and Adam
Contos of the Harvard-Smithsonian CfA, and Timothy Brown of the
HAO. "Both of our groups found essentially the same size and
shape for the orbits of the companions," said Korzennik. The
chances of this happening by accident are infinitesimal." Added
Fischer, "This is an extraordinary finding and it demands
extraordinary evidence. Having two completely independent sets
of observations gives us confidence in this detection."

Marcy and Butler had suspected that there was something strange
about Upsilon Andromedae. The velocity variations that revealed
the closest planet to the star in 1996 had an unusual amount of
scatter. Not until early this year had enough observations been
made of the star to confirm the presence of an additional
planet, which explained some of the confusing pattern in the
data. But another object still seemed to be tugging on the star.
"We looked at the two planet solution that we had been expecting
and there was still too much extra noise," said Fischer. "We
arrived at the conclusion that the extra observed wobble could
only be explained by the presence of a third planet." Both teams
of astronomers considered astrophysical effects that could mimic
the velocity signature from these planets, but no such effects
are viable. A computer simulation by Greg Laughlin of U.C.
Berkeley suggests that these three giant planets could co-exist
in stable orbits.

One big question left to answer is how such a solar system
arose. "The usual picture is that gas giant planets can only
form at least four AU away from a star, where temperatures are
low enough for ice to condense and begin the process of planet
formation," said Brown. "But all three giant planets around
Upsilon Andromedae now reside inside this theoretical ice
boundary." The planets may have formed close to the host star,
or, like balls on a billiard table, the planets may have
scattered off of each other, migrating into their current orbits
from a more distant place of origin.

The discovery of this multiple planet system suggests a new
paradigm for planet formation where many small seed planets
known as planetesimals might develop in the disk of matter
surrounding a star. Those planets that grow fastest would engage
in a gravitational tug of war that weeds out some of the smaller
worlds and determines which planets ultimately remain in orbit.

"The Upsilon Andromedae system suggests that gravitational
interactions between Jupiter-mass planets can play a powerful
role in sculpting solar systems," said Butler.

If these Jupiter-mass planets are like our own Jupiter, they
would not be expected to have solid Earth-like surfaces. But,
Nisenson noted, "Our observations can't rule out Earth-sized
planets as well in this planetary system, because their gravity
would be too weak for them to be detectable with present
instruments."

A bright star visible to the naked eye starting this June,
Upsilon Andromedae is 44 light-years away from Earth, and it is
roughly 3 billion years old, two-thirds the age of the Sun. This
star should make an ideal target for NASA's upcoming Space
Interferometry Mission (SIM). Expected to launch in 2005, SIM
will spend five years probing nearby stars for Earth-sized
planets and will test technology slated for future
planet-searching telescopes. The ongoing ground-based planet
search will enable SIM to home in on those stars most likely to
harbor small planets.

San Francisco State University is a highly diverse community of
27,000 students and 3,500 faculty and staff. It is one of the
largest campuses in the nationally recognized 23-campus
California State University system. Founded in 1899, the
University is celebrating its 100th year of service to San
Francisco, the Bay Area and beyond. The Harvard-Smithsonian
Center for Astrophysics, located in Cambridge, MA, is a joint
collaboration between the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory
and the Harvard College Observatory.


Images:


*A schematic diagram of the orbits for the 3 planets detected
around Ups Andromedae. The red dots mark the orbits of
components b,c and d. The dashed circles show the orbits of
Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars (inside to outside, respectively)
overplotted to give a sense of the scale of the extrasolar
planetary orbits. Jupiter, at 5 AU would be outside the
boundaries of this plot.

zoom (link)


*An image of the star Upsilon Andromedae. The newly discovered
planets are not able to be seen, because of the overpowering
brightness of the star. Image: Digital Sky Survey


Copyright 1999 Pole Star Publications Ltd







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   Apr > Apr 15

                             A Plea For Help...

From: Jeff Westover <frequentflier66@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:58:19 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:43:38 -0400
Subject: A Plea For Help...


Hello all.

With war raging in the Balkans, weather-related disasters in
full-swing and disease sweeping through third-world nations, I
ask all of you to consider using your online resources to help
those in their hour of need.

We have at our fingertips, one of mankind's most powerful
inventions, the interconnectedness of the Internet...Marshall
McLuhan's dream of the 'global village' almost fully realized.

I've prominently placed a link to the American Red Cross
(http://www.redcross.org) on both of my online art galleries,
The Night of Light

http://www.crystaltower.com/jeffw)

and The Alien Art of...

http://www.alienalley.com/jeff.html

with a plea for help.

There may be better organizations or relief funds out there in
which to link up to.  I encourage that if you know of one,
please add a link to it or forward the information to all of
those that you know.

Donate something, anything (even if it's just a little bit of
server space) to those who desperately need our help right now.

Thank you for considering this important message.

Jeffrey S. Westover




==
Enter into the Night Of Light Art Gallery at
http://www.crystaltower.com/jeffw/







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   Apr > Apr 15

                        Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet@chucara.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:11:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:28:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?


Hi There,

>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:19:39 EDT
>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:18:26 -0400
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet@chucara.com>
>>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?

>>Hi All,

<snip>

>>>of false memory syndrome and the lawsuit potential of regressing
>>>children - has done nothing but prove that we were right.

>>I personaly agree with your argumentation, and I know of many
>>others who do, but how can we regulate what others do?

>>The problem is that simple!

>>Jacques Poulet

>Msr. Poulet, je ne said pas que vous dire... as he fumbles madly
>for his high school French book and instead, finds a Swissa
>Deutch primer...
>
>Why sir, would you wish to _regulate_ what others do?  Me thinks
>this may very well be an error on the side of language.  I
>certainly hope so. For I would not wish to be regulated or
>controlled by anyone or any entity.  Which is why I dislike
>aliens.

>To regulate: a verb intransitive, acknowledging Merriam Webster
>for his erudition...

> 1 a : to govern or direct according to rule

<snip>

1a is the answer. In other words, to be able to ban something,
you need a way to "control" those who would want to ignore the
ban. I was meerely asking how such a ban could be "enforced"
when none of us holds any kind of controls on others...


Jacques Poulet
Phone: (514) 913-0274

http://www.chucara.com/

Fortean Files CDROM   http://members.tripod.com/jpoulet/

CHUCARA
Box 61
La Prairie, Qc
Canada  J5R 3Y1






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   Apr > Apr 15

                        Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:14:07 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:29:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?


>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:49:52 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?

Jenny Randles had written:

>>There are many sound reasons for having doubts about the value
>>of hypnosis as a tool for uncovering the facts.

>Agreed. I'm arguing for its value strictly as a therapeutic tool.

Hello John,

Of course it's quite OK to have doubts, but the doubts go both
ways. As I understand it, a significant fraction of the
anecdotal evidence that has most impressed those who have
hypno-regressed large numbers of apparent UFO abductees,
concerning the apparent reality of the experiences, comes from
what was reported while under hypnosis. Here I'm referring to
certain particular details of the experience which agree with
those told by other abductees, when the abductee in question was
unaware that any others had ever reported the same. Two examples
of this that come immediately to my mind have been disclosed
often enough that by now they are certainly no longer generally
unknown: the rounded walls of the room and its general
illumination without any light source being apparent. Various
other details, I believe, remain purposely undisclosed so that
they can still be utilized for corroboration.

Since Budd Hopkins isn't on this list, you, John, can perhaps
best represent his findings here. Roughly what fraction of the
corroborating details he's found, which support the reality of
the event, would you estimate come from the hypnosis sessions as
opposed to the directly remembered data?

Dave Jacobs might still be on this list, in which case I hope he
will let us know what fraction he finds for the corrobrating
details obtained under hypnosis vs. those from direct memory
before hypnosis. From what I gather from his book, _Secret
Life_, it is a substantial fraction.

Jim Deardorff






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   Apr > Apr 16

                    Re: Swinging Pendulum Object Reported

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:06:25 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:01:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Swinging Pendulum Object Reported


Hi, Stan,  Jim and list:

>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:51:46 -0700 (PDT)
>Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:23:55 -0400
>Subject: Re: Swinging Pendulum Object Reported In Pennsylvania

>>From: Stan Gordon <paufo@westol.com>
>>To: UFO Updates -Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>>Subject: Swinging Pendulum Object Reported In Pennsylvania
>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:30:16 -0400


>>This incident occurred near Latrobe, PA on the evening of April
>>10, 1999.  The witness who is a law enforcement officer for a
>>state agency, had taken a walk outside and at about 7:40 P.M.

<snip>

>>steadily from northwest to southeast.

<snip>

>>This witness has seen NWS weather balloon packages, and is sure
>>that this is not what he observed.

>Hi, Stan:

>It might possibly have been a large weather research balloon of
>some sort whose top portion only was mostly inflated, the lower
>part being uninflated and looking somewhat like a "stem", maybe,
>supporting an instrument padkage. This would be in case the
>balloon was not yet floating nearly as high as its final design
>altitude at which it would then be fully inflated.

>You should check out what the winds were between 20,000 and
>30,000 ft to see if the winds were from the northwest. If they
>were, that wouldn't prove anything, but would raise suspicions
>somewhat.

Unisys Weather sites provide the upper air data you need.  The
300mb chart gives wind directions for 30,000 ft at:

http://weather.unisys.com/archive/eta_init/9904/99041100.gif

This is for 0000 hours Zulu which is 8 PM on the 10th.  The wind
direction seems to be from the WNM... Hmm..

Clear skies,

Bob Young






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   Apr > Apr 16

                        Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:47:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:03:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:14:07 -0700 (PDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

>>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:49:52 -0400
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?


Howdy Jim,

>Jenny Randles had written:

>>>There are many sound reasons for having doubts about the value
>>>of hypnosis as a tool for uncovering the facts.

>>Agreed. I'm arguing for its value strictly as a therapeutic tool.

Jim writes:


>Hello John,

>Of course it's quite OK to have doubts, but the doubts go both
>ways. As I understand it, a significant fraction of the
>anecdotal evidence that has most impressed those who have
>hypno-regressed large numbers of apparent UFO abductees,
>concerning the apparent reality of the experiences, comes from
>what was reported while under hypnosis.

<snip>

>Since Budd Hopkins isn't on this list, you, John, can perhaps
>best represent his findings here. Roughly what fraction of the
>corroborating details he's found, which support the reality of
>the event, would you estimate come from the hypnosis sessions as
>opposed to the directly remembered data?

I honestly don't know Jim, I'll have to ask Budd. It will of
course be an estimate as I don't think any formal 'scorekeeping'
has been kept.

I can only speak for myself. In my own case, I rely solely on
that which I can recall (and have recalled all of my life)
consciously. I have never fully trusted or put too much stock in
the info that was acquired via hypnosis. I won't completely
discard it either. I just hold it all in abeyance until some
fact or other comes along and either corroborates or negates
different portions of it.

>Dave Jacobs might still be on this list, in which case I hope he
>will let us know what fraction he finds for the corrobrating
>details obtained under hypnosis vs. those from direct memory
>before hypnosis. From what I gather from his book, _Secret
>Life_, it is a substantial fraction.

David reads the posts from this list. I hope he responds to your
question as it is a valid one that has come up before.

Regards,

John Velez
________________________________________________
                                jvif@spacelab.net
INTRUDERS FOUNDATION/ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER
                            http://www.if-aic.com/
"Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________





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   Apr > Apr 16

              'Wired News' On 1999 NY UFO Abduction Conference

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:10:12
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:53:15 -0400
Subject: 'Wired News' On 1999 NY UFO Abduction Conference


Source: Wired News:

http://www.wired.com:80/news/print_version/culture/story/19056.html?wnpg=3Da=
ll

Stig

***

updated 4:25 p.m.  15.Apr.99.PDT

The Truth Is Way Out There

by Theta Pavis

3:00 a.m.  12.Apr.99.PDT

NEW YORK -- They aren't New Age believers who think aliens will
bring peace to the world. They don't think the new millennium
has anything to do with widespread abductions. And they don't
believe everything they hear.

The researchers who gathered for the 1999 UFO Abduction
Conference practice what they call "agnostic intellectualism."
But they have come to believe that strange abductions by aliens
could be happening.

"In UFO research, you have to take everything with a boulder of
salt," said David Jacobs, a white-haired associate professor of
history at Temple University who signed copies of his 1998 book
The Threat after speaking at Saturday's conference.

To do their work, researchers like Jacobs rely primarily on the
accounts that alleged abductees give while undergoing hypnosis.
And Jacobs readily admits the evidence is problematic.

"This is the weakest form of evidence we can get," Jacobs told
the audience of over 200. "But we have a tremendous amount of
it."

With thousands of abduction reports now on file, Jacobs and
others said they've found clear patterns in the testimony of
alleged abductees that warrant further research.

The conference was organized by the Intruder's Foundation, a
700-member group formed in 1989 by veteran UFO researcher Budd
Hopkins.

"I can't prove these things are happening. I never use the word
'proof.' But there's just enough evidence that you have to pay
attention," said Hopkins, who in 1964 experienced a UFO sighting
in Cape Cod. It was one of the events that piqued his interest
in the phenomenon.

UFO experts have always practiced "a certain kind of
conservatism," Hopkins said. In the beginning, they didn't want
to think that UFO sightings could be extraterrestrial.

Over the years, Hopkins said he and others have started to
believe more and more. For example, he said he has recently
begun to believe that aliens can make themselves and their
abductees invisible, even though that's "so off the wall."
There's just no other way to explain the fact that people get
abducted in the middle of the day with no witnesses, he said.
One famous case did have witnesses, according to Hopkins. In
1996, he wrote a book about Linda Cortile, a married mother of
two who was said to have been pulled through the window of her
home and floated 12 stories above the ground near the Brooklyn
Bridge. Hopkins wrote that witnesses -- among them a United
Nations diplomat -- reported seeing Cortile in the air and that
a strange metal implant appeared in x-rays of her nose and later
disappeared without a trace.

Cortile, who was at yesterday's conference, said the conference
was long overdue. "I think people are becoming more open-minded
and intelligent," she said.

Throughout the day, conference attendees shopped for books and
talked quietly during breaks. Nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman
gave a lively talk on why he thinks interstellar travel is
scientifically and technology possible.

Jerome Clark, an author and editor of International UFO
Reporter, gave a history of abductions. Filmmaker Carol Rainey,
who is married to Hopkins, talked about how the media distort
and under-report such phenomena.

Hopkins and Jacobs said alien abductions can happen at any time
of day or night, have been reported around the world, and cut
across all lines of race, class, gender, age and religion. They
say abductees often wake up with strange, scoop-like scars and
bruises they can't explain. When asked to draw the aliens, they
produce pictures of similar looking, small, grayish aliens with
big heads, large black eyes, and no hair. The abductees share
similar reports of being paralyzed, floated through walls and
windows and taken into space ships.

The aliens, they say, perform all sorts of tests on them, and
seem to be particularly interested in reproduction, often taking
their sperm and eggs.

Experts said the fact that thousands of people say aliens have
abducted them is either some kind of mass hallucination, or an
extraordinary phenomenon worth looking into.

Jacobs not only believes it's happening, but warns that the
alien visitors aren't friendly. They're interested, he said, in
dominating the planet and creating some kind of alien-human
hybrid.

When will it happen? Jacobs guesses at anywhere from tomorrow to
40 years from now.

"Even if it's 500 years from now, it's too soon. I'm not a happy
camper about this," he said. "These little guys are up to no
good."


Related Wired Links:

Tales of Abduction
12.Apr.99

Praying to the Aliens
7.Jul.97

Media Descends, Cynically, on UFO Gathering
7.Jul.97

Unconvention Zeroes in on UFO Research
18.Apr.97



Copyright =A9 1994-99 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved.





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   Apr > Apr 16

                Mortellaro Follows Up On Abduction Conference

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:07:52
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:57:50 -0400
Subject: Mortellaro Follows Up On Abduction Conference


Letter by Jim Mortellaro. Source: The Village Voice,

http://www.villagevoice.com/letters/9915letters.shtml

April 7 I posted Austin Bunn's article on the abduction
conference. See:

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/apr/m07-004.shtml

or the original Village Voice version at

http://www.villagevoice.com/features/9914/bunn.shtml


Stig

***


<snip>


Out of this World


As a possible alien abductee, I read Austin Bunn's "The
Alienist: Artist Brings UFO Abduction Home to New York" [*April
7-13] with great interest.

Like many of the people in Bunn's article, I can tell you that
living with strange memories is no fun. There are a number of
stages in the abduction phenomenon which assault the mind. I
have been examined by psychiatrists and found to be highly
stressed, but otherwise in good mental health. I have a few
phobias, but who doesn't?

I go through stages of disbelief and belief, supplanted from
time to time with the thought that maybe I am crazy. Which is
why I decided to be examined. As for the memories, they are
dreamlike snippets, which I recall vividly from more than 50
years ago. And I almost never recall dreams. So why do I
remember these? And why are they so vivid? Why do I have the
belief that they are memories of real events?

Clearly, UFO counselor Budd Hopkins, the subject of Bunn's
article, helps his groups with his kindness and his thorough
knowledge of the subject. I am considering utilizing his
services, but before doing so, I wish to recall as much as I
possibly can by myself.

Jim Mortellaro
Katonah, New York

<snip>







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   Apr > Apr 16

              Bletchman, Bryant, Bassett & Ballot Initiative -

From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 04:01:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:01:56 -0400
Subject: Bletchman, Bryant, Bassett & Ballot Initiative -


Programming Announcement

Robert Bletchman, MUFON Public Relations Director; Larry Bryant,
MUFON Government Affairs Directors; and Stephen Bassett,
lobbyist will be on radio discussing the recent MUFON Board of
Directors' vote to support the State Ballot Initiative.

This initiative has the potential to place binding Open
Congressional Hearing (for government witnesses) language on 16
state ballots in the upcoming 2000 election.

All that is required is the grass roots collection of x amount
of signatures for each state.  Is this an historic opportunity
for MUFON and the UFO/ET question?  What could MUFON's role be
and how might it benefit?   Will the process have impact well
prior to the elections themselves?  Tune in:

KTRS - St. Louis (George Noory "The Nighthawk"): Friday, April
16, 11:15 pm EST

Mike Jarmus Show - national radio and
http://njpeople.com/mike/indexmj.html





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   Apr > Apr 16

                        Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

From: Rose Hargrove <PRIESTESSE@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 05:29:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:24:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?


>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:49:52 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?

>>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?
>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100


>>As a newcomer to the net, please excuse me if I do not follow
>>proper etiquette. I am still learning. But I wanted to issue a
>>comment on a major policy in force in the UK, which does not
>>seem to have been adopted by any other country in the world
>>(save, to some extent, parts of Scandinavia). That is the
>>banning of the use of regression hypnosis as a viable way to
>>explore alleged abductions.

>This is an example of how a good idea can be taken too far. I
>completely agree that hypnosis is -way- overused in cases of
>reported abduction. But, it does have some therapeutic value in
>cases where disturbing or life disrupting symptoms have
>manifested as a result of unresolved missing time or a partially
>recalled close encounter with a UFO. Providing some relief from
>suffering should be the first and maybe only consideration when
>deciding on the use of hypnosis in any given case. Its use as a
>reliable means of retrieving accurate data is what is in
>question. Not its efficacy as a therapeutic tool.

<snip>

This is my first post in reply to a subject on UpDates so please
bear with me as I am also a neophyte to computers.

Mr Velez makes some very good and very valid points. I support
them all.

I further add that investigation utilizing hypnosis or any other
modality is only as good as the protocol utilized by the
individual investigator.

There are many investigators that have given the field and
hypnosis a bad name.

In the case of David Jacobs he has repeatedly shown the value of
the use of hypnosis as an investigative and therapeutic tool.
His research protocol is well thought out and controlled.

As far as I can ascertain his treatment of his research subjects
is exemplary and should serve as a model for other researchers.

Dr. Jacobs is not inclined to make rash and untested assumptions
as he aims for reproducibility and not sensationalism.

Mr. Hopkins whom I know not as well I believe also follows sound
research methodology and therapeutic avenues as evidenced by his
involvement in abductee support.

Perhaps prior abandoning hypnosis as a tool we need to look at
the wielders of the tool. Poorly trained investigators with
questionable methodologies should of course not be conducting
this advanced level of research.

The aforementioned gentlemen utilize this tool with the
precision of surgeons and may well be humanities best hope. It
would be a grave error to discard a powerful and effective
process that could lead us to the answers we are sorely lacking
in this field.

We must first and foremost remember that we are dealing with
people having an intense and disruptive completely "alien"
experience in their lives. We need to utilize any tool that will
bring the abductee some measure of functionality and peace in
their lives.

These are my opinions after some measure of thought about this
phenomenon.

Respectfully,
Rose





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   Apr > Apr 16

                        Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:57:21 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:40:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?


>From: Jenny Randles<nufon@currantbun.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:17:28 +0100
>Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:50:44 -0400
>Subject: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?

Thank you to all who have replied on UFO UpDates so far. I will
try to keep up but I have had over 100 e-mails in two days and I
do have work to do.

Please excuse any time it takes for reply.

---

>From: Mark Cashman<mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:00:10 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto<updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?

>I am also concerned that problems with hypnosis may be the
>reason for the current boom in abductions (Jacobs claims that
>one abductee was taken 54 times in 8 months) and claims that
>UFOs must be able to become invisible (broached by Hopkins at
>the IF conference). If so, the abduction data base may well
>being rapidly contaminated with spurious events.

Part of the reason for the BUFORA moratorium - that has now
become a ban - was to create an ad hoc experiment to see how the
decision not to use hypnosis would effect case totals. There are
far fewer British abductions coming in today than five years ago
- except those reported to the media. In fact we now hear of
only one or two per annum.

Of course other UK groups still use hypnosis so some comparisons
will be possible. I think this is a research project someone
should attempt - assessing the differences and the similarities
between groups who do use and groups who do not use regression.

---

>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:58:32 EDT
>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take A Stand?
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>Once again you have selected only one example to present your
>case. Budd Hopkins has thousands. Many of which are multiple
>witness cases, as an example, the so called "Brooklyn Bridge"
>case which occured in Manhattan, not far from the Gripple Wks
>by the by.

I am not sure when I previously selected only one example. But I
cited Alan Godfrey simply because he is well known globally. He
is by no means the only witness to volunteer doubts about
hypnosis to me.

Two other well known British abductees - Ros Reynolds and Elsie
Oakensen - have made no secret of their distrust (and in Ros's
case) grave dislike for what regression did to her. I think
there is surely more disquiet amongst witnesses than ufologists
suspect.

>Ms. Randles, please answer another question, who
>among those "percieved" to be true ufologists have made
>"fortunes?"

I do not want to get into the business of naming names, but I am
surprised that it is not an accepted fact that hypnotic
regression generates the most sensational cases that in turn
produce the most lucrative stories. These inevitably attract
more money from book, TV, movie, media rights. I know this from
first hand experience as a writer.

Do not equate this point with my inferring that respected
ufologists are 'in it for the money'.

That is not my point.

My point is that hypnosis is bound - with us all - to lead to at
least a subconscious realisation that by uncovering a big case
we will get more attention for our work. That is only human
nature.

Ufology right now - certainly in the UK - has become all about
money. Huge sums are being paid and they are usually not
commensurate with the value of the work being put into the
public domain. We have lost control of our own subject to the
financiers and that is worrying because it is bound to
exacerbate the trend towards bigger and more dramatic cases.


>How many regression hypnotherapists have you spoken with? And
>how many abductees? And what of those _many_ individuals who
>have nevere picked up a book on the subject and yet share
>extraordinarily similar memory of others? What of a three yr
>old child who never heard of a UFO or alien describing events
>which are directly related to the story presented by others,
>time and again.

I trust nobody misunderstands me. I am not arguing against the
reality of an abduction phenomenon nor am I persuaded that its
solution is entirely within the realms of imagination.

Human consciousness is a key to its understanding but I think
there is new science to be learned here and I am not even averse
to the possibility that another intelligence is in contact.

Certainly there are cases that suggest this.

So I am not expressing doubts about hypnosis as a way to destroy
belief in aliens.

My concerns stem from witness responsibility and the scientific
value of the method. Moreover from how over-dependence upon it
is making us into lazy researchers.

If all we have to do to 'solve' a case (as a kidnap by grays) is
arrange a few hypnosis sessions then much needed investigation,
research and thought about what is going on disappears.

For the record, I was involved in Britain's first regression on
an abductee (20 years ago) and have since attended dozens of
sessions, working with and talking to at least ten
psychologists.

Since the ban in l989 I have only sat in on a few sessions and
not been involved in any actual investigation

>I suspect that properly used, it
>will be and is now, one of the very few tools we have, save
>next to memory and live specimens of the little guys with the
>big eyes

I guess it comes down to how you evaluate whether data obtained
by hypnosis - even properly used - is a real tool to unlock
truth or fantasy. The evidence of psychology - at least as I
read it - is at best split and I find biased against hypnosis
being used as a way to uncover even say a 75% truth level.

So - if we accept that 25% of all abduction testimony is fantasy
then which bits do we use to construct our ongoing theories and
worldviews? Especially as these feed back into the collective
unconscious and inevitably create false data in the next
generation of abductees?

Even if some true memory is emerging - and I suspect it is, by
the way - the constant over use of hypnosis is simply diluting
the level of truth in the cases that emerge by adding in more
and more fantasy. By now I suspect the data emerging is so
contaminated that it is dangerous to make any real assumptions
from it.

>Understand that were it not for people like Budd Hopkins
>(forgive me for using this name, but I know, love and respect
>this man for his work, his ethics and his paucity of that one
>element you mentioned early on, money), but were it not for
>people like him, the field would have _little_ information

I am certainly not attacking Budd. I have known him for 16 years
and have always found him an honest, modest, unassuming man who
genuinely cares for the people he works with. I have no
knowledge of his finances (although I bet they exceed mine!).

However, being a truthful, good intentioned nice guy does not
mean that his methods are right.

It is ufology's unquestioning reliance on what I think is
dubious data that I am challenging not the integrity of one
researcher.

>Methinks this post will bring a plethora of comments, Ms.
>Randles.  Say, are we contemplating another book on the
>subject or are you just happy to see us?

It has already - which is good. And I am very glad to be here.

But don't misconstrue my motives.

You appear to think I am milking the net for ideas for a new
book. Not so.

I have just written a book on abductions but its at the printers
- so none of this could be included. I have no plans to write
another one on the subject in the foreseeable future - although
I am always writing. Its what I do. And if you seriously suspect
that I do it for the money then ask yourself this: Would you
write a book - like my most recent (on mid-air encounters -
Something in the Air) - for an advance of =A31500 ($2200) that has
not earned any more (and may well never do) as it has sold all
of 750 copies?

That book took me eight months to write. I could get more
busking in the streets. My interest in UFOs is a lifelong
passion to learn the truth.

My motive for putting this comment on the net was to spark a
debate and get people thinking about an issue I consider to be
very serious.

There does not always have to be a hidden agenda.

---

>From: Chris Rutkowski<rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: Should Ufology Take a Stand?
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:33:44 -0500 (CDT)

>Part of the problem might be, as you pointed out, that
>hypnosis is so widely used in ufology, it is difficult to
>back away at this point, especially by the 'experts'. There
>are those who insist they are being careful, yet some are
>certainly driven by some inherent biases and beliefs which
>are well-ingrained within them. The resistance to stop using
>regression hypnosis is (and will be) very strong and vocal, I
>believe.

Absolutely, but that does not mean those of us who feel strongly
should stop saying so - nor that those who feel it is a vital
way to research cases should not speak up. This is what free
speech and open debate is all about.

I think most who use hypnosis are sincere and do try to be
careful. That is not the point.

You can give lessons in how best to use a gun and be very
sincere in your precautions about using one but that does not
make guns an inherently good thing that we are better off for
having.

What I believe is needed is for this debate to spread to the
leading UFO groups worldwide.

In the end it is their decision in a democratic vote to do what
they think is right and I would not be upset with any group that
used regression after such an open choice.

But I do not see any sign that any of the major groups are even
aware of the BUFORA stand (BUFORA has been too busy
assassinating each other to do any promotion of its own good
work).

Nor that any group has even raised the topic - let alone put it
to a vote.

Ufology is doing hypnosis because ufology has become hypnosis.

I feel we should now be taking more time to ponder if that is
the right thing to be doing. Maybe it is. I don't think so. But
I do think we need to address the issues within the hierarchy of
the major UFO group structure.








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                        Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:02:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:34:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?


>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:14:07 -0700 (PDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

>Of course it's quite OK to have doubts, but the doubts go both
>ways. As I understand it, a significant fraction of the
>anecdotal evidence that has most impressed those who have
>hypno-regressed large numbers of apparent UFO abductees,
>concerning the apparent reality of the experiences, comes from
>what was reported while under hypnosis. Here I'm referring to
>certain particular details of the experience which agree with
>those told by other abductees, when the abductee in question was
>unaware that any others had ever reported the same. Two examples
>of this that come immediately to my mind have been disclosed
>often enough that by now they are certainly no longer generally
>unknown: the rounded walls of the room and its general
>illumination without any light source being apparent. Various
>other details, I believe, remain purposely undisclosed so that
>they can still be utilized for corroboration.

Jim, thanks for mentioning this. I was going to bring it up
myself.

You asked how many of these details come from hypnosis. Most of
them, I'd think. One other that comes to mind is that abductees
seen working with the aliens are reported to wear blue uniforms.
Abductees also discuss the way the aliens' skin feels -- the big
and little grays feel different. (Full details in "Secret Life.")
And then there are Budd's 35 strikingly similar samples of alien
"writing," which have been supplied both ways -- from abductees
who've been hypnotized, and by others who remember the "writing"
consciously. (These are supposed to be studied by JUFOS, if the
journal ever publishes again.)

The hypnosis question is far more complex than you'd guess from
some of the discussion here. If you consider each hypnosis
session with an abductee as a separate event, then there's no way
to determine whether what comes out is accurate, even if the
abduction had been real. But if you look at data from many
hypnosis sessions, then patterns supposedly emerge.

In his skeptical book on abductions, Philip Klass cites a study
of police hypnosis by Martin Orne, telling us all to read it to
see why hypnosis can't be used to retrieve information. But (not
for the first time, alas), Klass misrepresents his data, as I
discovered when I looked up Orne's report, and discovered that it
doesn't say what Klass tells us it does. It says that testimony
soley derived from hypnosis should never be used in court (and
can't be, in many states where laws have been passed to ban it).
It also warns that data gathered with hypnosis may not be
accurate. But it also says that hypnosis used during a police
investigation may prove useful, as long as the information
gathered can be corroborated by other means.

In abduction research, the patterns that emerge from many
abduction accounts arguably serve as a kind of corroboration. Let
me ask those who've expressed skeptical views of hypnosis: What
would your reaction be, if you'd been present at several hypnosis
sessions before "Secret Life" came out, and heard some of the
abductees describe the feel of the aliens' skin in exactly the
same way, without any prompting?

Greg Sandow





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   Apr > Apr 16

                              Filer's Files #15

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:11:25 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:53:18 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #15

Filer's Files #15 --1999,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,   MUFON Eastern Director,
April 16, 1999,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020


ASTRONAUTS SAW UFOs IN 1960s

Astronaut's Ed White and James McDivitt were passing over
Hawaii in a Gemini spacecraft in June 1965, when they saw a
weird-looking metallic object. The UFO had long arms
sticking out of it. McDivitt took pictures with a cine-camera.
Those pictures have never been released. In December
1965, Gemini astronauts James Lovell and Frank Borman
also saw a UFO during their second orbit of their
record-breaking 14 day flight. Borman reported that he saw
an unidentified spacecraft some distance from their capsule.
Gemini Control, at Cape Kennedy told him that he was seeing
the final stage of their Titan booster rocket. Borman
confirmed that he could see the booster rocket all right, but
that he could also see something completely different. During
James Lovell's flight on Gemini 7: Lovell: "BOGEY AT 10
O'CLOCK HIGH." Capcom: This is Houston, "Say again 7."
Lovell: "SAID WE HAVE A BOGEY AT 10 O'CLOCK HIGH."
Capcom: Gemini 7, "Is that the booster or is that an actual
sighting?" Lovell: "WE HAVE SEVERAL...ACTUAL
SIGHTING." Capcom: ..."Estimated distance or size?" Lovell:
"WE ALSO HAVE THE BOOSTER IN SIGHT !" Thanks to
steve@linex.com (Steve Wingate)

MASSACHUSETTS

CAPE COD -- On April 7, 1999, Stacy S. "was looking
through the second-story window of my home at 10:58 PM," in
East Falmouth when "I watched through the sheers strange
double white lights resembling car headlights, across the sky
through the maple trees." "The craft came from the west,
approximately at a 35 degree angle. Unfortunately, I had it in
view only five seconds." "As it approached my house, I could
see that this aircraft was not making a sound. It was only
slightly above the maple trees in my front yard, moving with
absolutely no noise. It had a triangular shape with a large
spotlight thing on each end of it with pulsating red lights
underneath it." "My mind was thinking that it's just an airplane,
but its silence and fluid motion told me this was not so. As it
rose above the treeline, it shifted slightly to the right and flew
over our house until I could see it no longer." "I am now
convinced there are UFOs in the sky!" Thanks to UFO
Roundup Vol. 4 #15, 4/11/99, Joe Trainor editor.

CONNECTICUT

HARTFORD -- Dean Burgess writes that on April 8, 1999,
while driving north on Route 91 at 5:30 AM, I saw a round
flying object about the size of a large car. The object was
intensely bright and made no sound. At first I thought it was a
news chopper, but as I got under it I could see the craft very
clearly. I took the Jennings Road exit and got out of my car.
There was a very low cloud cover, and the sun was just rising.
The object had no blinking lights, there was just one intense
light. It hovered for a few minutes and went up and down in
and out of the ground cover as if hiding. When it flew higher
the light from the object reflected on the clouds, and I was
able to see that it was more a ball shape than a disk. Thanks
to Dean Burgess, djburgess@snet.net and Larry Clark,
http://www.nymufon.org,  lclark@ibm.net

NEW YORK

WEST HAMPTON -- CAUS reports that Shirley stated, "I live
near West Hampton Air Force Base on Long Island. On April
8, 1999, there were three triangular aircraft that flew over my
home. I got a few pictures of the third object. This was low and
I hope the pictures come out since, I have never taken
pictures at night before. This was a true triangular shaped
aircraft. My daughter and her boyfriend also saw one of these
on the way home from picking up my son at work also at
about 9:30 PM, last night. He said it was no stealth fighter.
We have seen them before. The craft had lights all around the
outside edge and a red light in the bottom center. It made a
great deal of noise. I went through all Air Force pictures on the
computer and found nothing that even looks like it. Thanks to
James A. Peters (James_Peters@compuserve.com) and
Peter A. Gersten Director of CAUS.

PENNSYLVANIA

LATROBE =96 On April 10, 1999, the witness who is a law
enforcement officer for a state agency, had taken a walk
outside and at about 7:40 P.M. He noticed a brilliant star-like
object very high up in the sky that looked similar to Venus. He
is used to seeing Venus later in the evening, but towards the
west. The sun had just set, and the witness thought that it was
still too early to see many stars. He lined up the bright object
with the corner of a building, and confirmed that the object
was indeed moving very slowly. He ran inside and got his 10 x
50 binoculars. The object was moving slowly and steadily
from northwest to southeast. In the binoculars the actual
shape of the object itself couldn't be determined, since the
sun was reflecting off the body and it was extremely bright.
What was most interesting, was that hanging from the bottom
of the brilliant object was a long appendage that "looked like
a very long poll?" The pole must been very large to see so
clearly. This straight device gave the impression of a silver
pendulum rotating under the object counter clockwise. At
times the pole would remain straight down and stop. There
may have been some bumps or irregularities along the
appendage. The object was observed for about 20 minutes.
Thanks to Stan Gordon researcher PA UFO Hotline
(724-838-7768) Website: http://www.westol.com/~paufo/

OHIO

CLYDE -- The Fremont News-Messenger article stated: "A
month after several unidentified flying object sightings near
Clyde, two 18 year old teens reported seeing a strange object
in the sky on April 11, 1999. Timothy R. Twice and Shawn
Robinson, told Freemont police they were driving at 9:42 PM,
Sunday in the area of Atkinson Elementary School and saw a
UFO in the sky. They described it as saucer shaped, bright
white with green lights in the front and back. Twiss said as
they were watching, it suddenly "took off like a bolt of
lightning!" Thanks to News-Messenger 4/13/99. Ken Young
comments: "This is yet another mysterious sightings reported
from Sandusky County in the last few weeks. For details see
the detailed reports at:
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/Fremont99.htm Thanks to Ken
Young at UFO Research

VIRGINIA

HOPEWELL -- Frank writes, "Recently I took part in a
MUFON investigation of members of a Hopewell, family
whose close encounter resulted in numerous physical affects
including wounds to at least two family members. I also talked
with others who also saw unidentified craft in the same area,
between Colonial Heights and Hopewell in early February
1999. The Central Virginia area is a very active UFO area
where "MUM" has been the word about strange craft for a
long time. Are there any WEB pages that keep current and
historic data bases on sightings and unusual events?
mrmoe@erols.com. Editors Note: I have not received any
sighting reports from Virginia in recent months.
Congratulations, it looks like your finding out what is going on
in your area, which is the most important job of a field
investigator. You are in effect the expert detective in your
area. There is a mistaken idea that headquarters knows the
movements of UFOs in a local area and will report them to
you. When UFOs are reported to me, I put them in Filer's
Files. I feel that in any location an investigator starts a search
for UFO sightings, he can find them. Witnesses seldom come
to you. The National Reporting Center at
http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/webreports.html has
many reports. A search engine index to my files is at:
http://ufoinfo.com/filer/search.html

NEW MEXICO

ALBUQUERQUE -- IamLeona writes that on April 2, 1999,
my wife and I observed a very bright luminous object traveling
east just south of our home 10:03 PM. We are located at
8,000 feet up in a mountainous area 20 miles SE of
Albuquerque. The object was a bright luminous amber sphere
slightly smaller than the moon would appear and traveled just
above tree top level. The distance from us was difficult to
judge because the size is unknown but we both estimated it to
be between 50 and 300 yards away. The object was definitely
not anything like the air traffic we normally see and made no
sound. We observed the object for 15 - 20 seconds until it
disappeared behind trees. Thanks to IamLeona

WASHINGTON ELK ABDUCTION UPDATE

MOUNT ST. HELENS =96 On February 25th, fourteen
witnesses observed an elk was being abducted by a UFO.
Robert A. Fairfax WA MUFON Director of Investigation
reports an official at the Washington Department of Game
told him that more than 100 dead elk were reported in the St.
Helen's region. Because of the long winter and dearth of new
spring growth and nutrient providing new growth in general,
many animals have used up their energy reserves. The elk
have migrated to lower elevations in search of food; many
animals have met new energy depleting situations such as
being run by dog packs or avoiding people on horseback
outings. The deer in the area are suffering from a nutritional
hair loss disease. What this all boils down to, is that the elk
we found without any obvious mutilation markings is not likely
to have been actually abducted by a UFO. Apparently, some
of these elk can appear to be well fed because they are
eating large quantities of bulk food, but the problem is with the
nutrient value of that forage. With so many carcasses around,
the carrion feeders may feel no need to descend on any one
particular body shortly after it succumbs. That may be the
reason the elk we examined was not scavenged for 3 weeks
after it was discovered. I suggested to Bob that these craft
may not be manned and are sent to pick up food and elks for
experimentation. The meat, blood and other fluids in a large
animals body could be used as food. Fairfax said: "Certainly
one would like to think that animals were at least not being
wasted, however, as in all the animal abductions that I am
aware, the meat is not harvested. Perhaps the blood is used
for substance but there would be better methods of
procurement -- (like the vampire bat), there would be
seemingly little problem of the high tech draining of some
blood from several critters such that no permanent damage
ensued. If they are using the animals for nutritional needs, they
are not very high-minded in their concern for animal welfare.
Add to that the taking of pets such as dogs and cats and
horses, along with many other species and you have to
wonder about this scenario." Thanks to Bob Fairfax.

MEXICO RESORT A GETAWAY FOR
EXTRATERRESTRIALS?

TEPOZTLAN -- Seattle Times by Ricardo Sandoval. When
Carlos Diaz came down from his first mountainside encounter
with a UFO 20 years ago, he was worried people in this
popular resort town would shun him as a nut case. But what
stunned Diaz was his inability to get anyone here excited. To
residents of Tepoztlan - and many of its countless weekend
visitors -- his account of getting close to a glowing object
pulsing with yellow, orange and red streaks was no big deal.
In this sun-drenched haven for residents of nearby Mexico
City, believers are as common as the healing crystals and
Indian sweathouses that help make Tepoztlan a popular
getaway in a country steeped in superstition. The
commonplace nature of UFO sightings here, against a surreal
backdrop of jagged peaks and an Aztec pyramid halfway up
a 1,000 foot cliff, also make Tepoztlan ideal for the UFO
information center Diaz plans to open this month. "I found
people in their 90s who have had so many sightings that they
now take them for granted," said Diaz, who says he has
witnessed dozens of visits here by spacecraft. "They simply
refer to them now as sunspots in the night sky." Diaz says he
wants to help others find the truth through a nonprofit
clearinghouse about extraterrestrials and their love of visiting
Mexico and Tepoztlan. In the past decade alone, hundreds of
sightings throughout Mexico have been reported to UFO
experts, often above Mexico City and it's surrounding volcanic
mountains. Video recorders have captured odd shapes over
the capital's upscale neighborhoods. During Pope John Paul
II's recent visit, many people -- including radio and TV
reporters -- talked quite earnestly of seeing strange lights in
the sky during one of his Masses. That pales beside
Tepoztlan's record for ethereal sightings. Some longtime
residents report soberly that 60 percent of the people here
have seen UFOs. Many say it's because the copper-laden
mountains, which bedevil cell phones, televisions and radios,
also act as beacons for extraterrestrials. Others say it's the
"seven bands of energy" -- electromagnetic waves --
streaming through the valley around Tepoztlan. It's probably
mass hysteria and a desire to be part of the hip crowd in very
hip Tepoztlan, countered Mario Torres Lujan, a physicist who
edits the magazine Contacto OVNI. OVNI is the equivalent
acronym in Spanish to "UFO." Torres Lujan says he believes
visitors come calling from elsewhere in the universe, but
insists he tries to bring science into his investigations. He
says he gets as excited about uncovering hoaxes as by
establishing legitimate claims. He says many of the Tepoztlan
sightings are real and even predate the Spanish conquest in
the 1520s. Copyright =A9 1999 Seattle Times Company April 9,
1999

CUERNAVACA -- While repairing the roof of my house
March 15, around a 11:00 AM, I spotted a large shiny object
in the western sky upon taking a closer look through
binoculars I managed to spot several smaller objects
surrounding the large object. I managed to count at least forty
smaller objects. I invited my sister to witness the event as a
backup eyewitness. As we passed the binoculars back and
forth to each other we suddenly realized that the smaller
objects were entering the large object one by one very slowly.
It took about half an hour for the smaller objects to enter the
large one. Another large object of the same size joined the
first object side by side and they both proceeded to move
south slowly at first and then disappeared outwards into
space. Thanks to Dave Ledger dledger@cableinet.co.uk

PULSE WEAPONS

Bill Rose writes, EMG weapons have been a reality for some
time and are designed to disable electronic systems. A new
device was recently introduced for the Tomahawk cruise
missile which is called the Explosive Magnetocumulative
Generator Warhead. It consists of a coil surrounded by
explosives, which are configured to implode. A fraction of a
second before detonation, a current is passed through the
coil which generates a small magnetic field. When the
implosion occurs, the coil is squeezed to generate a massive
electromagnetic pulse which equals that produced by a
tactical nuke. Developed at Los Alamos, this particular device
adds to the many warheads now available for cruise missiles
which include nuclear/non nuclear, submunition dispensing,
carbon fiber strand (to take out power lines) and probably
chemical agent delivery. There have been calls to use these
"non lethal" warheads against Serbian radar and installations
reliant on electronics. Many other types of EMG weapons are
already in NATO and Russian service from aircraft delivered
devices to some the size of small demolition charges,
designed for special forces use. Thanks to Bill Rose.

FLORIDA ALIEN ENTITY ENCOUNTER
CONTINUED FROM LAST WEEK

K.t. Frankovich, a well-qualified wild life expert had an
awesome encounter with an alien entity during May of 1992.
This the second interview with her to attempt to bring you the
reader her amazing story. Last week, we told you k.t. had
been warned that there was danger in the Lime Grove behind
her home. Walking two of her dogs she had heard the
chopping of wood deep in the Lime Grove. Now she stood
only thirty feet from a strange entity. Her aggressive black
Labrador and giant Schnauzer dogs were strangely docile
and lay with their heads on the ground at her side. She
studied the entities entire body so not to forget anything. He
had a head and eyes larger than a human, his skin was
smooth like a dolphin. His nose, mouth, and ears were tiny.
He apparently was not a homo-sapien or human, at least not
like anyone she had ever seen! Later she learned the entity
had the general description of an alien called a Gray. His
arms were long and relatively undeveloped, while he had
marvelous muscular legs that reminded k.t. of an Olympic
athlete. The mouth was very small and it appeared unlikely to
be used for eating meat like humans. His skin was
grayish-pink and smooth in texture like a dolphin. He had six
fingers and the thumb digit was positioned in the same place
as a human's. His arms appeared long and thin and similar to
an orangutan. When he moved his arms in the air they almost
seemed to 'float.' She mentioned she can almost determine
an animal's performance based on its muscle tone and skin
condition. She told me, "These were the legs of a powerful
runner who must have exercised them constantly." (As she
wove her story, I thought this alien does not seem to be a
person who just arrived from another star system. This was
someone who apparently was accustomed to Earth and its
atmosphere. Perhaps most important of all this healthy
creature was not bothered by Earth's bacteria and virus's.)
K.t. continued, "He wore a white tee-shirt short-made of a
shiny metallic material that fit tightly. He also wore very shiny
metallic black shorts that came down to his upper thighs. He
wore black ankle high-boots. Nothing seemed to have buttons
or zippers." They were both startled to see each other. It was
dusk, and the sun was setting. She didn't want to frighten the
entity, she loved all animals and had never hurt anyone.

As they stared at each other, k.t. noticed a strange animal
hanging from a branch beside him. She saw it move like an
opossum. It looked kind of like a fur hand warmer hanging
down from a branch. The fur was Smokey-gray, exceptionally
long and very thick and shiny. This animal was well taken care
of and healthy. It was not like an animal who lived it the wild,
but probably a pet. The body reminded her of perhaps a
round raccoon. It never turned its head toward k.t. Never, in all
her life, had she seen anything like this. After attempting to
find a reasonable explanation for the two creatures, it became
apparent they were not from Earth. With this realization she
became little frightened. The shadows grew darker and scary.
She realized she was completely alone except for her dogs,
who were not acting normally. This extraordinarily entity could
easily possess powers far beyond her own. Without realizing
it she tugged on the dog's leashes. Perhaps out of an instinct
for self preservation she wanted to make sure her dogs were
all right. She spoke out loud, "What in the hell was I looking
at?" Next week we will continue her story. Thanks to k.t.
Frankovich. If you can't wait, her story is at her website:
http://members.aol.com/KFrnkovich/index.html.

Editor's Note: Many witnesses have commented that many of
the aliens appear almost emaciated and may lack certain key
vitamins and minerals. This entity seemed to be foraging for
the branches. It appeared he had been chopping the lower
branches of a lime tree. Why? If he wanted to make a fire,
there were plenty of dead trees and sticks. He was cutting the
lower growing limbs that usually sprouted the best limes.
These branches could be grafted onto some other type of
tree, and with the proper sunlight and water, limes could
grown almost any where, even on board a space ship.
Interestingly, she is married to David Taub, an Englishman,
who is very charming and firmly believes her story. In slang
terms, English sailors are often called Limey's. This was
because the British Navy gave limes to their sailors, who
were often at sea for months without fresh food. The limes
helped keep the sailors healthy and free of a disease called
Scurvy that is caused by a deficiency of vitamin C. The
disease is characterized by anemia, spongy gums, bleeding
from the mucus membranes and may cause death. Trips from
one star system to another may be similar in length to long
trips at sea. The aliens may have discovered that limes or
lime tree sap can help keep them healthy. She suggested that
perhaps their digestive system is based on photo synthesis
and chlorophyll to gain energy. The fur creature the alien had
with him could be a pet who warns when intruders are near. I
remembered a similar story by Liz, another contactee who
saw a similar strange animal. Liz had described it as a hand
muff made of long rabbit fur that you stick your hands into in
the cold weather. She had even made a sculpture of this
strange looking fur creature shaped like an egg. Of course
these creatures could have been a deformed human and pet,
or perhaps they from one of these newly discovered planets?

RESEARCHERS DISCOVER TRIO OF PLANETS
IN A NEW SOLAR SYSTEM

GANNETT NEWS SERVICE =96 by Robyn Suriano. Scientists
have discovered a trio of planets orbiting a nearby star,
providing the first evidence the universe could be home to
other solar systems like our own. The finding suggest that
planets are abundant throughout the universe, bolstering the
chances that other Earth-like world's may exist. "It implies that
planets can form more easily than we ever imagined and that
our Milky Way is teaming with planetary systems" Debra
Fisher, a research at San Francisco State University said
Thursday. Courier Post 4/16/99.

AIR VICTORY MUSEUM -- MEDFORD, NJ is going to have
a UFO display area. We need your help. Do you have any
photos, videos, drawings, or exhibits you would like to
donate? What we really need is a real UFO!

Crass commercials: GET THE BEST REALTORS
and HELP UFO RESEARCH

As a special aid to our readers, we can provide you with the
best real estate experts in your area at no cost to you. If you
obtain your own agent, how long have they been in the
business? And how good a producer are they? I can provide
free relocation information and top agents from the largest
and most respected real estate firms. If you are planning to
sell or buy a home and would like a top flight real estate agent
e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com or call 609 654-0020.
Please provide your name, phone number, address, price,
and location.

MUFON JOURNAL For more detailed investigative reports
subscribe by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX
78155-4099 or E-mail Mufon@aol.com.

Filer's Files Copyright 1998 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on
their Websites provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the
item appeared.

Send your letters to me at Majorstar@aol.com. If you wish to





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   Apr > Apr 16

                    Earth Changes TV: NASA's Flying Disc

From: Mitch Battros <earthcng@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:53:45 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:37:35 -0400
Subject: Earth Changes TV: NASA's Flying Disc


Earth Changes TV/Breaking News


NASA Reports Flying Disc Now A Reality...04/16/99

(NASA) It looks like another fine product of Area 51, and it
really is shaped like a flying disc, and would even fly like
one. If it works, the family tree will trace back not to
Roswell, New Mexico, but Troy, New York. "It came out of a
trans-atmospheric vehicle design course at Rensselaer
Polytechnic Institute," which is in Troy, explained Prof. Leik
Myrabo.

The microwave Lightcraft being studied by Myrabo and his
students is shaped that way because that's how the physics
works. It's an advanced derivative of a tiny, 25-gram craft that
he is pushing around on a 10 kilowatt beam of infrared laser
light in tests at White Sands Missile Range, N.M.

Myrabo discussed his work last week during the Advanced
Propulsion Research Workshop held in Huntsville. "This is where
we are now," Myrabo said, showing a picture of Dr. Robert
Goddard with his first liquid propellant rocket, launched March
16, 1926. Just 43 years later, a sophisticated descendant of
that rocket sent the first humans to the Moon.

"My goal has been to cut the cost of getting to space by a
factor of 1,000 using a system that is completely green," he
explained of his passion for the past three decades. Since 1972,
he has been building on an idea developed by Arthur Kantrowitz
to use lasers to launch satellites. Myrabo introduced a
variation using the atmosphere as the propellant heated by a
laser. At higher altitude and at 5.5 times the speed of sound,
as the air thins, the craft would use a small supply of on board
hydrogen, still heated by the remote laser beam.

Myrabo's initial design for NASA was a 5-meter (16.5 ft)
diameter, four-person craft  in a shape that he dubbed Acorn.
The front is shaped to reflect the coherent laser light into a
narrow region between the body and a shroud. The focused light
superheats the air to become a jet exhaust that pushes the craft
up. In this case, the laser power station would be based in
orbit.


Mitch Battros
Producer - Earth Changes TV





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   Apr > Apr 17

                          Lecture 05-01-99 Michigan

From: John E.L. Tenney <mainorg@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:03:03 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:44:33 -0400
Subject: Lecture 05-01-99 Michigan


Co-Founder of the Michigan Anomalous Information Network, Rev.
John Tenney, will be holding a lecture/discussion at the Royal
Oak Public Library in Royal Oak, Michigan on May 1st 1999.

Topics will include but are not limited to: Unidentified Flying
Objects, Anomalous Weather Patterns, Ancient Astronauts, Secret
Societies, Government Conspiracies and Doomsday Scenarios.

There is no cost to attend, but seating is limited.
Doors open at 2:15pm with the lecture to begin at
approx. 2:30pm.

For more information, directions to the lecture or to reserve
seating contact the Royal Oak Public Library at-(248)541-1470.

Don't forget to visit the temporary homepage of the Michigan
Anomalous Information Network at:

http://members.tripod.com/~mainorg








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   Apr > Apr 17

                            Alfred's Odd Ode #299

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:40:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:47:18 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #299


Apology to MW #299 (For April 17, 1999)

Before the *grand* Greeks, I was taught we were _primitive_.
Shallow and dim we'd ascended from time -- a shiny black line in
an unbroken chain of them that were backward to us more refined.
The Greeks were so golden -- attractive *false* gods, *invented*
philosophy . . . cast ethics abroad. Like THEY were the sun
source, the knee of the bee, the lovers of knowledge, and wisest
you see. From _them_ we've *descended* (?), to orbit the sun, to
wander the planets -- our journey begun. _Theirs_ (?) was the
sharpness, the vision -- the clarity? It's a thought may define
a derisive hilarity! _Theirs_ (?) were the roots of the mind
that we measure, a high water mark (?) for a pride that we
treasure?

"Forgive those fine Greeks the mistakes that they made," my
teachers all said so they all could get _paid_.  "Before _them_
was ignorance as wide as a river with witches and fairies and
magic embroiled. The Greeks gave us _reason_ to focus our
talents and look at the wonders our culture has toiled . . . "!

Well, _perhaps_, they're digressing, and missing the point.
Perhaps it's their outlook's askew -- out of joint. Perhaps --
not _advancing_, Greeks side stepped their issues, and used a
cognition as _thin_ as bath tissue. Their age was not golden,
but reflecting the light of that which _proceeded_ a cognitive
blight that is found in a student of Plato, I'm taught -- who's
the "source of our reason, our ethics, and thought."  And _his_
was a view that, to us, made more sense -- that we were the
*top*, we're _Humans_, and since we _are_ at the "top" and the
"crown of creation" (the center of spheres made in crystal
gestation), that we've earned a _right_ to be special, aloof,
that we _are_ the favorites of *God* in *His* *truth*.

Before this, *we're taught*, we were lawless and primitive;
blood, tooth, and claw was our _shameful_ derivative. Mankind
was lost, and he dwelled in dank caves; he was brutal and
shiftless -- and he stank a foul way? The *beauty* of chivalry
(?) was yet to be born, and man was untamed and immoral --
forlorn. His knowledge was faulty, and likely all wrong, his
plentiful ignorance was stridently strong. Thank god for the
Greeks (?), and the thoughts that they had? Our beginnings were
Greek (?), before _that_ we were mad?

Never brought up (?) -- that they copied their stories from a
dim hoary past they forgot (to dodge fear?). They spun what they
copped to, dismissing the rest as the ranting of those they
refused but to hear. Man had _old_ knowledge the Greeks thought
was _wrong_; the musings of primitives, they thought all along.
How could _these_ know that the sun was self-centered, and how
could these _know_ that the planets were there? How could these
_know_ that a belt of crushed rock existed past Mars towards
Jupiter, mon frere? How did these _know_ the true colors of
planets; Neptune _was_ green, and Uranus _was_ blue. How did
these _know_ of their similar nature, components of water --
near _twins_ they are (?), TRUE!  Primitive man had the facts
made forgotten by him who would spin a coarse weave of proud
lies. *Primitive* man knew the facts of the cosmos compelling
humility the Greeks don't provide!

Lost in the drifts of our hoary old time is the proof of
anomaly, fearsome -- sublime, that too long ago in an eon dimmed
past there were _Giants_ on Earth, and they made their time
last.  Most will fall short and pretend it was God, but it slept
with our daughters, and it gave them a prod, and these were our
Mothers created to WORK -- not to worship or fawn, and be less
than alert. These Giants crave LABOR t'would further their ends,
and we were a _means_, so they _used_ us, my friend, in a manner
that taught us some stuff that they knew about planets, and
systems, and _craft_ they flew, too! All this was lost, then,
for thousands of years! The Greeks put it down as the proof of
their fear, and then left us traditions for systems (Earth
centered) that lasted too long, so they stunted, and hindered.

These are the records as writ by Sumerians from ages on back to
a time . . . lost --mysterious. These are the thoughts that we
run from today, that we are unblessed -- could be flushed
_straight_ away by the first cosmic strike (a galactic elite?)
that may come from a planet still craving our heat! Written in
clay, it is clear and decipherable, beyond mere coincidence the
things that they _knew_ that they wrote down for _us_ in their
wedge pokes, and slashes that we've disregarded, or laughed at
-- it's TRUE!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

How _could_ they know?

Restore John Ford!

--
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more.
Consider Matter, Mind & Movement.
See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration.
Take a ride in the Teleporter.

Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
<Updated 2 April>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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   Apr > Apr 17

               Possible UFO Landing Near Blind River, Ontario

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:02:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:02:15 -0400
Subject: Possible UFO Landing Near Blind River, Ontario


I received a call from my contact in Blind River and she
reported the following incident:

On March 24, a woman from Algoma Mills (7 miles from Blind
River) had a close encounter while driving towards Blind River,
where she was going to pick up her daughter at the local Tim
Horton�s Donut Shop.  The time was approximately 11:20 p.m.

When she got within a half-mile from Blind River, she saw an
object lifting off from behind some trees at an RV trailer lot,
near the shores of Lake Huron.

She described it as cigar-shaped and red and white in colour.
The object was �as long as one treeline to the other� (wider
than the highway).

When she saw it lift up above the treeline, she pulled right
over so that she could get out and watch.  But when the object
started coming over the highway, she decided to stay in the car.

She sat there and watched as it came right over her car which,
at that point, began to vibrate. That�s when she hit the gas,
she said, because �she just wanted to get out of there.�  At
that moment, that�s when it (the object) took off in a split
second. It went right over the nearby hospital and was gone.


Two nights prior, on Monday, March 22, in the early hours of the
morning, she said she woke up and heard a loud hum in her house.
She went running to her daughter�s room, woke her up, and both
were in a panic-state.  She said she kind of knew what it was,
but didn�t want to go outside and look. Then the hum went away.

---

On Thursday, April 15, two women from Ironbridge (12 miles west
of Blind River) were going for a walk at about 10:00 p.m. when
they reportedly saw a bright, bright light in the bush.  They
didn�t want to stay any longer.  They got scared because it was
�too...too bright for a normal light.�  They just took off out
of there.

One of them said she'll go back to investigate the area, but the
other lady is too scared to go.


More detail forthcoming...hopefully soon.

P.S. Other happenings concerning a boy who sketched what he saw
will be forthcoming.  My contact is keeping notes, as I am,
about all this stuff.

Michel





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                             Orlando Newspapers?

From: Philip Mantle - QUEST <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:25:31 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:04:13 -0400
Subject: Orlando Newspapers?


Dear colleagues,

Can anyone please provide me with an address phone/fax or e-mail
address of any local newspapers in the Orlano, Florida area.
Please respond direct to: pmufo@dial.pipex.com

Thanks,

Philip Mantle.







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              SNET: Armen Victorian on John Alexander's MILABS

From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:52:06 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:18:51 -0400
Subject: SNET: Armen Victorian on John Alexander's MILABS


From: Robalini@aol.com
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:50:19 EDT
Subject: SNET: Armen Victorian on John Alexander's MILABS Piece
To: undisclosed-recipients:@aol.com@world.std.com;



-  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

Please send as far and wide as possible.

Thanks,

Robert Sterling
Editor, The Konformist
http://www.konformist.com
http://www.konformist.com/mkkafe/milabsb.htm

From: Jack Sarfatti <sarfatti@well.com>

ADVANCED INTELLIGENCE AGENCY

Memorandum For The Record

I have not been following this at all. I do not know how I got
in the middle of it. But I have no real interest in it myself. I
am too busy reverse engineering alien technology. :-)

We need to remember Thucydides "History of the Peloponnesian
War" with Sparta fighting Athens as the Persians were on the
march.

I have had my own "contact"

http://www.hia.com/hia/pcr/parsifal.html

Frankly my dear I don't give a damn about all this infighting.

I have a job to do "Making Star Trek Real" and I am doing it and
making amazingly rapid progress with an international team of
physicists and engineers including some top Russian physicists
who were high up in the Soviet counterpart to our own Strategic
Defense Initiative that I played a small but significant
catalytic behind the scenes role in in 1981.

"Crank er up and see how she runs."  Ad Astra.



A. Victorian wrote:

Often I am a silent by-stander, but with regards to an on-going
debate involving Alexander, his wife Victoria Lacas, Helmut
Lammer [for his forthcoming book on MILAB - "UFO Abductions"], I
make the following comments:

After reading the current exchanged correspondence [e.amils]
between the parties, there are a number of issues necessitating
clearance;

1. John Alexander in his rebutal of Lammer's book makes some
unwitting confessions, confirming his status in his current
employment position, underpinning his lack of access to
pretinent information;

a) He lacks clearance to access material under the pyramidial
classifications.

b) Denial to such access is based on Background Investigation
(BI) findings both by DoD and DoJ. Granting of clearance is
reviewd every three to six months.

c) He has access to classified material under linear
classification category.

2. His comments on Lammer's book clearly demonstrates these
facts.

3. Some of the relevant technologies referred to in a braod
sheet manner in Lammer's book based on (c) are accessible to
Alexander; e.g. his involvment in DNA's [former Defense Nuclear
Agency] programs to safeguard nuclear sites using novel
technologies. Alexnader denies this. But, I will reveal this
shortly based on actual government documentations.

4. Both Alexander and his wife maintained silence when I asked
their opinion on some "abduction" cases; e.g. one about a USAF
Colonel, where actual military personnel were present as guards,
and some "examiners" were in white coats.

5. Alexander also maintained silence when he was questioned
about the removal of a suspect object, as documented in Dr.
Leir's book "The Aliens and the Scalpel", [program partially
funded by NIDS]. The case in question contrary to the book's
analysis findings as being of alien origin, is in fact man made.
The case history has been in my archives, long before Leir and
Sims glorified it as an alien related case.

6. Alexander, contrary to his immature behavior for issuing a
threatening "Memorandum in Confidence" against me in LANL [copy
in my archives], and upon his wife's request not long ago
[1996-97] was saved from an embarassing expose with my help
[taped conversations with Victoria Lacas].

CONCLUSION: Such technology exist, and I would disclose concrete
documentary official evidence to that effect in my forthcoming
second book.

Armen Victorian


If you are interested in a free subscription to The Konformist
Newswire, please visit http://www.eGroups.com/list/konformist/
and sign up. Or, e-mail konformist-subscribe@egroups.com with
the subject: "I NEED 2 KONFORM!!!" (Okay, you can use something
else, but it's a kool catch phrase.)

Visit the Klub Konformist at Yahoo!:
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/klubkonformist


- Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
-  Posted by: Robalini@aol.com

---





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   Apr > Apr 17

                         Secret Weapon from 1947...?

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:18:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:47:39 -0400
Subject: Secret Weapon from 1947...?


There is no indication for certain that the strange story to follow
[which I have had stashed away in my files for a number of years] is
of any relation to the UFO subject, but perhaps someone on this list
may have knowledge of the account. I found the enclosed newspaper
article while strolling through microfilm of 1947 newspaper articles
looking for information about Kenneth Arnold's UFO sighting.

My interest in the article even went as far as making a few phone
calls trying to locate relatives of the Mr. Snodgrass mentioned in
the report. I probably called about 6 or 7 numbers in this area, but
to no avail.

If anyone has additional information to shed some light on this one,
please let me know.

Kenny Young

--------------------

The Cincinnati Enquirer
June 15, 1947: page-1

"WAR DEVICE BARED"
Awful as A-Bomb, Cincinnatian Says
WEAPON IS SECRET,
Based on British Idea from Tarawa Battle, Not Biological


A devastating new instrument of war placed in the Anglo-American
arsenal by scientists working secretly in New Zealand yesterday
was termed "as awesome in its effects as the atomic bomb" by a
Cincinnati bio-physicist who aided in its development.

James Marion Snodgrass, 39, chief engineer of the motion picture
division of the Dayton Acme Co., consultant engineering firm,
declined otherwise to lift the cloak of mystery surrounding the
weapon.

Pressed by reporters, Snodgrass said only that it was not
connected with the atomic bomb and had no relation to biological
warfare.  He would not say whether it was intended to be
directed against humans, aircraft or ships.

DATED FROM TARAWA

Development of the weapon started after the invasion of Tarawa
Island in the Pacific by American forces, Snodgrass *line of
text not legible* loss of life.

Asked whether the weapon had any bearing on the casualties or a
military problem encountered on the island, Snodgrass replied
tersely, "Could be."

Snodgrass, who lives at 150 Somerset Dr., College Hill, was a
civilian when he was assigned to a group of British and New
Zealand scientists engaged in the development project.  The
weapon was conceived by the British, Snodgrass said, and
research was pressed despite lack of enthusiasm shown by the
U.S. Navy officers who received reports during development.

CLUE IN HONORS LIST

Existence of the weapon first was disclosed when Prof. T.D.J.
Leech of New Zealand was mentioned in the birthday honors list
of King George VI in London.  A news dispatch reported Professor
Leech as calling the weapon an effective alternative to the
atomic bomb.

Asked whether the weapon could replace the atomic bomb,
Snodgrass said only: "First reports are substantially true, but
perhaps they are exaggerated a little."

The research was conducted in New Zealand because of fears of
espionage, Snodgrass said, although it had been planned to
transfer the work to Florida.

Snodgrass, who is married and has two children, formerly was an
instructor of psychology at Oberlin College, Oberlin, Ohio.
Before the war, Snodgrass said, he performed considerable
research on the effect of electric currents on the human body.

End of article

________________________________________________________________


"Pledged To Silence On Secret Weapon, Cincinnatian States" The
Cincinnati Enquirer, page-1 June 16, 1947

James M. Snodgrass, Cincinnati biophysicist, yesterday refused
to describe any further the secrecy-shrouded weapon of war that
he and a group of British and New Zealand scientists devloped in
New Zealand during World War II.

As speculation developed concerning the weapon which Snodgrass
termed "as awesome as the atomic bomb." The scientist said that
he was "under obligation" to remain silent.

Although only the barest of facts have been made public
concerning the weapon, it is known that it was developed
following the invasion of Tarawa Island and was never used in
the war.


End of article

--
UFO Research





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                    BUFORA Watch - Journal Editor Leaves

From: Mike Wootten <mike@woottenm.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:24:05 GMT
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:06:32 -0400
Subject: BUFORA Watch - Journal Editor Leaves


As we speculated in the last edition of BUFORA Watch, the
Association have been hit by yet another key resignation.

Journal editor and BUFORA stalwart Robert Moore recently sent a
letter to Council members which began:

'Due to a number of factors I have decided to stand down as
Editor of the BUFORA BULLETIN as of Issue "11". This is -  to a
notable degree - due to my strong feelings re the Max Burns
issues, which I share with Gloria Dixon and David Clarke. I am
deeply distressed to see how some aspects of BUFORA are not
fully supportive of David Clarke and his investigation of this
case.'

BUFORA are now floundering in the mire, panicking at how they
are seen by the world's ufologists. The machinery behind the
clockwork has been exposed once again to reveal - NOTHING.

But remember, this is a nothing for which BUFORA members are
quite happy to pay 20 pounds per year for. A far stranger
mystery than ufology itself!

BUFORA have also been panned in the latest Magonia on-line
supplement, which contains a lenghty article about the history
of BUFORA cock-ups. The more things change at BUFORA the more
they stay the same!

BUFORA big wig has begged ex-Director of Investigations Gloria
Dixon to stay with the Association and it is rumoured that they
are now trying to make their peace with Jenny Randles in an
attempt to regain a shard of credibility.

In reality these pathetic actions further demonstrate the mess
BUFORA is in. Their continued promotion of stand up UFO comics
such as Max Burns and his ilk only go to show they have not -
and will not - learn their lesson.

We'll keep you posted as to their antics!






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   Apr > Apr 18

                        Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:17:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:10:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?


>In abduction research, the patterns that emerge from many
>abduction accounts arguably serve as a kind of corroboration. Let
>me ask those who've expressed skeptical views of hypnosis: What
>would your reaction be, if you'd been present at several hypnosis
>sessions before "Secret Life" came out, and heard some of the
>abductees describe the feel of the aliens' skin in exactly the
>same way, without any prompting?

>Greg Sandow


Greg,

There are any number of ways to approach the pattern "problem".
In the above example, I might say that there is a relatively
limited number of common words available to the layperson to
describe skin: rough, scaly, smooth, dry, oily, cold, warm and
maybe a few more.

In other words, let's do an experiment. We've probably all been
into a modern museum or nature center where they have these
little boxes with an opening into which kids can stick their
hands and feel some natural object. Would you get a consistent
pattern of description from everyone who stuck their hand inside
(to feel alien skin), or would you get something like the
classic bell curve, a general agreement in the middle, with
extremes of perception on either end? After all, what is warm to
your body might be cold or neutral to mine.

In still other words, is the pattern thus revealed an accurate
reflection of reality, or something inherent to the definition
of "pattern"? In an experiment in which people are asked to draw
the first geometrical figure that pops into mind (and, no, don't
any of you even _think_ about asking for a citation), a third
draw a triangle. That's a clear pattern, but _where_, in
phenomenological terms, does such a pattern lie? Is it cultural
(everyone's seen the Great Pyramid of Giza by now) or is it
somehow buried or encapsulated in the nature of perception (or
the act of imagining) itself?

(The above issue, incidentally, might also address the alien
script issue.)

Furthermore, is the pattern really there to begin with? Jacobs,
by way of example, long resisted the profusion of various alien
types that were being reported, but now seems to have
reluctantly admitted that the little grey pattern (maybe) isn't
quite as consistent or pervasive as it was once thought to be.

My guess is that the pattern may not even be there (if enough
examples were compared), or that if it is present, other
influences _could_ be at work, although not necessarily.

Dennis





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                        (Skyopen) An Interesting Find

From: William Hamilton <skywatcher22@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:18:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 01:26:39 -0400
Subject: (Skyopen) An Interesting Find


I have recently posted the results of a metal analysis that was
done on a fragment of silicon sent to me by Michael Wolf.  I
still have a major portion of this fragment.

Today, while shopping in Pasadena, Ca. I saw a number of stones
in bins for sale in one of the stores.

My attention was immediately drawn to the bin of silicon they
had for sale.  I bought one of the silicon fragments for one
dollar.

I have now compared it to the sample sent by Michael and they
are identical in appearance, weight, and feel.

This leads me to believe that Michael or someone he knows could
have purchased a handful of the same kind of fragments and then
presented them as remnants of a spacecraft.

It is highly unlikely that such remnants would have that same
appearance and feel.

It becomes increasingly unlikely that Michael Wolf has divulged
the real source of the silicon fragments which throws a long
shadow over much of what he has said so far.

Sincerely,

--
Bill Hamilton
Executive Director
Skywatch International, Inc.
Website: home.earthlink.net/~skywatcher22




***************************
SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC.
(A Non-Profit Organization)

Administrative:                 Membership:                Postings/Mailing
PO Box 900393                   PO Box 801                 PO Box 2154
Palmdale, CA 93590-0393         Leander, TX 78646-0801     Elk City, OK 73648
USA                             USA                        USA


Please visit the Skywatch International Inc. website at
http://www.skywatch-international.org






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                       Sightings in Sao Paulo, Brazil

From: Thiago Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:29:56 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 03:20:34 -0400
Subject: Sightings in Sao Paulo, Brazil


Vig=EDlia formal interview:(www.vigilia.com.br)


My name is ********** , I'm 29 years old. I live in Sao Paulo,
in a neighborhood near to Avenida Paulista. Yesterday (April
14th, 1999), around 11:00 Pm., I was looking the sky, which was
very bright and clear, through my window ( 12=BA floor).

Suddenly I saw a red point near to a tower. I thought that might
be a star, but then it started to move slowly, ascending and
doing a movement  like a arch. I thought now that it could be a
balloon, then is stopped. I called my sister to see it.

While we are talking about the light, it started again to move.
A few minutes after, some flashes in the other side of the city
took our attention, but was very fast.

My sister was cold and went to bed, and I continued to look to
it.

After some minutes appeared another light parallel at west.

I was looking to both, when sudden the one which was at my left
started to "inflate" and get a stronger and brighter light and
when I was watching it, I don't know how to say, is like if the
light exploded and "spit light". Around 5 or 6 smaller lights
came from it and flood in the air. That was very beautiful.

Then the light was decreasing e getting red until be like the
beginning.

When I went to bed the two points still were there, and today I
try to find them again but they are not there."


THIAGO LUIZ TICCHETTI
Diretor Do Departamento de Publica=E7=E3o e Tradu=E7=E3o Especializadas (=
 DEPTE -
EBE-ET / Brasilia-Brasil)
Director of the Publication Department and Specialized Translation
ICQ - 35119615









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                          BWW Media Alert 19990418

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:13:53 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:39:54 -0400
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19990418


Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert Current Edition

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin
</A>
<A
HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/bufosweirdworld">Link
to Amazon.com
</A>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to
http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

April 18, 1999

I may try to start checking some more sources outside of the U.S..  Since I
do keep tinkering, feel free to let me know what you think.  Rather a slow
week...

On to the listings: Times are generally Pacific.

LIVE EVENTS (lectures, etc.)

What: MUFON FIELD INVESTIGATOR TRAINING SEMINAR
When: Sunday APRIL 18, 1999, 10 A.M. til 5 P.M.
Where: The B'Hai Center, 170 Valencia Street (Between Duboce * McCoppin)
San Francisco, California
Who: JOE FIRMAGE (former CEO of
USWeb)(http://www.thewordistruth.org/login.cfm)
BOB WOOD http://www.ufomind.com/people/w/wood/ (Fund for UFO Research)
RYAN WOOD http://www.artbell.com/majestic.html (U.S. Government UFO Document
Researcher)
JOHN SHIRLEY, http://www.darkecho.com/JohnShirley/jsbiblio.html, (Author:
Silicon Embrace. Wetbones, Black Butterflies.Screenwriter, :The Crow.The
Specialist.Star Trek Deep Space 9, Lyricist: Blue Oyster Cult.)
Price: $30 for the day including lunch
Contact information: O, O & O
4 STRATHMOOR DRIVE
BERKELEY, CA 94705 Attn: MUFON SEMINAR
Or:
Call Ted Oliphant, Training Coordinator, Northern California MUFON
http://www.realityb.com/Articles/
@ (510) 288 3203

What: HEARTLAND ENCOUNTERS CONFERENCE
When: Sunday, April 25
Where: Parkway Chateau, 12304 75th Street, Kenosha, WI. I-94 & Highway 50
Who: LLOYD PYE (hairy bipeds, alternative history) (
<A
HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0966013433/bufosweirdworld">Every
thing You Know Is Wrong, Vol. 1, paperback)
</A>
DOLORES CANNON (ET channel) (
<A
HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1886940045/bufosweirdworld">The
Custodians: Beyond Abduction (paperback)
</A>
DIANDRA (channel)
CHRISTOPHER DUNN (Egyptian Technology) (
<A
HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1879181509/bufosweirdworld">The
Giza Power Plant: Technologies of Ancient Egypt (paperback)
</A>
JEFF SAINIO (MUFON photoanalyst, with Israeli UFO footage)
Cost: $20.00
Contact Information: E-mail (<A
HREF="mailto:thomreed60@yahoo.com">mailto:thomreed60@yahoo.com
</A>) or call Thom Reed312-661-9172, or call Bonnie Hughes at 847-838-0086.

RADIO

Eddie Middleton's very popular show in the South, Nightsearch, has a website
at
<A HREF="http://listen.to/nightsearch">http://listen.to/nightsearch<;/A>.
Unfortunately, no streaming audio.

Don Ecker, of UFO MAGAZINE, host STRANGE DAZE on the Liberty Works. It can be
heard on streaming Real Audio at
<A
HREF="http://www.broadcast.com/radio/talk/lwrn">http://www.broadcast.com/radio
/talk/lwrn
</A>.

ART BELL - DREAMLAND
Currently, the most popular talk show on this area.
<A HREF="http://www.artbell.com/">http://www.artbell.com/<;/A>. Live streaming
audio (and video) available.

JEFF RENSE - SIGHTINGS
Quite simply, this is my favorite show on which to appear. Jeff is
well-versed on the topics, but likes to let the guests speak. You can hear
Real Audio of the show, and there are archives as well. Go to
<A HREF="http://www.sightings.com/">http://www.sightings.com/<;/A> for more
information. The show is on at 7:00 PM Pacific Monday through Saturday, and
8:00 PM Pacific on Sunday. You can hear it anywhere through your computer. To
subscribe to the Jeff Rense Weekly E-news (which includes articles), e-mail
(subject: Subscribe)
<A HREF="mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net">mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net</A>.

Monday, April 19, 7:00 PM, David John Oates with reverse speech regarding
Kosovo
Wednesday, April 21, 7:00 PM, Michael Lindemann: Weekly UFO/ET Update
Thursday, April 22, 7:00 PM, Jose Escamilla, with new "rods" UFO videos
Saturday April 17, 7:00 PM, David John Oates Reverse Speech Show

TELEVISION

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL

Thursday, April 22, 10:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: PARANORMAL SIGHTINGS (psychic
detectives)
Friday, April 23, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: PARANORMAL SIGHTINGS (psychic
detectives)
Next Thursday, April 29, 10:00 PM, MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED: STRANGE
BEINGS AND UFOS (includes abductions; Loch Ness monster; and yeti)
Next Friday, April 30, 1:00 AM, MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED: STRANGE BEINGS
AND UFOS (includes abductions; Loch Ness monster; and yeti)

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL (Europe)

Sunday April 19, 9:00 PM (Time zone uncertain), BEYOND THE TRUTH (about U.S.
cattle mutilations) (Dutch only)
Sunday,.April 19, 11:00 PM (Time zone uncertain), SEARCH FOR THE SEA SERPENT
(Jan-Ove Sundberg's search in Norway) (also broadcast in Dutch)
Monday, April 20, 1:00 AM (Time zone uncertain), UFOS AND CLOSE ENCOUNTERS
(also broadcast in Dutch)

PBS

Interestingly, at least the San Francisco area PBS station (KQED) is running
ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S WORLD OF STRANGE POWERS (the WARNINGS FROM THE FUTURE
episode) on Saturday, April 24, at 10:20 pm.  It's possible others have
bought it as well.  This excellent series has been missed from THE DISCOVERY
CHANNEL lately.

THE SCIENCE CHANNEL

The new schedule (since December 28, 1998) is weird programming for an hour
each at 3:00 AM, 11:00 AM,and 7:00 PM. Alternating shows are: INTO THE
UNKNOWN and ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE. They also run a Roswell
show now every other week (it's probably the same show every time) at 4:00 AM
and noon on Sundays.

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL

Tuesday, April 20, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5064 (psychic detective;
Angel of Death; Ouija boards; "window" areas; haunting; sasquatch)
Wednesday, April 21, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5065 (UFOs; Edgar
Mitchell, astronaut; website; mutated frogs; school haunting; lake monster)
Thursday, April 22, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5066 (Ohio UFOs;
out-of-body-experiences; computers with souls; life on Io; nightclub
haunting; ancient structures)
Friday, April 23, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5067 (psychic detective; FOIA
website; predictions)
Tuesday, April 27, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5068 (Texas haunting; Nazi
UFOs; alien abductions; plant communications; Korean UFOs)
Wednesday, April 28, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5069 (psychic detective;
Atlantis; alchemy; haunting; ley lines; divination)
Thursday, April 29, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5070 (New York UFO; ghost
films; psychics; earthquake predictions)
Friday, April 30, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #3001 (poltergeists; UFOs)

SOCCER BROADCASTING STATION (Australia)

Wednesday, April 21, 8:00 PM (Sydney time), ABOUT US: ALIEN BIG CATS
(documentarians Christopher Gogos and Alkinos Tsimilidos investigate big cat
sightings down under)
___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's
WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if there is
something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the
week before.
_____________________________

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Home Page
</A>
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   Apr > Apr 18

                 Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::

From: John Alexander <APOLLINAIR@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:52:44 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:45:23 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::


>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:31:53 EDT
>Subject: Re: UFOR: ::: John Alexander on MILABs :::
>To: updates@globalserve.net

<snip>

>It's possible that some of these people have psychological
>problems but you seem to once again, lump them all together.
>If I ever had an abduction like experience, I would hesitate
>before telling anybody. I certainly wouldn't tell you. You
>would say that I was in the hypnagogic state.

>Where's you're compassion and open mindeness? Seems
>to be lacking.

>Joe in Tampa

There is a difference between open-mindedness and stupidity.

As for compassion, didn't I suggest they get help. If an iota
of evidence is available, I'll help them file charges and
prosecute the criminals.

John A





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                        Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:28:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:50:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?


>Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:17:15 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

>Greg,

>There are any number of ways to approach the pattern "problem".
>In the above example, I might say that there is a relatively
>limited number of common words available to the layperson to
>describe skin: rough, scaly, smooth, dry, oily, cold, warm and
>maybe a few more.

>In other words, let's do an experiment. We've probably all been
>into a modern museum or nature center where they have these
>little boxes with an opening into which kids can stick their
>hands and feel some natural object. Would you get a consistent
>pattern of description from everyone who stuck their hand inside
>(to feel alien skin), or would you get something like the
>classic bell curve, a general agreement in the middle, with
>extremes of perception on either end? After all, what is warm to
>your body might be cold or neutral to mine.

>In still other words, is the pattern thus revealed an accurate
>reflection of reality, or something inherent to the definition
>of "pattern"?

<more snipped>

Thanks for this, Dennis.

What you describe is work that needs to be done. Stuart Appelle
said much the same thing in his paper on abduction evidence in
JUFOS. [Journal UFO Studies --ebk]  If, for instance, abductees
report seeing similar symbols during their abductions, a control
group of non-abductees should be asked to imagine symbols they
imagine they'd see if they should be abducted.

If they come up with the same symbols the abductees report, then
the abductees' reports aren't convincing.

Greg Sandow

http://www.gregsandow.com

http://www.gregsandow.com\ufo






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                         Re: Alleged 'Secret Weapon'

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:22:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:03:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'Secret Weapon'

>Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:18:41 -0400
>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Secret Weapon from 1947...?

Update on alleged 'Secret Weapon' reported in '47

Here may be some additional details relevant to the alleged
'Secret Weapon' referenced in a 1947 Cincinnati Enquirer
newspaper article. -- text of this article can be found at:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/Secrets.htm

Apparently the papers of James Marion Snodgrass were sought
after by the Scripps Institute of Oceanography in 1995, as per
the following item from:

http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/sionet/qrept/9596-1-arch.html

        ----excerpt----

        October 27, 1995
        SIO Archives
        Quarterly Report July/September

        1995 ACQUISITIONS

"During this quarter we received 56 films of Eugene La Fond
documenting work at sea during the 1960's and the papers of
James Marion Snodgrass (38 cartons). The Snodgrass papers were
received with a deposit agreement. A deed of gift is under
negotiation now. We also received an original 1969 political
cartoon signed by Ronald Reagan concerning state oceans policy
and slides of work at sea from Peter Brueggeman."

        ---end excerpt---

This item was courtesy of Mr. Bob Barnes, who located it while
browsing through a search engine under the name of SNODGRASS. I
would be inclined to wager that the James Marion Snodgrass
indicated in this article may be the same as from the '47
newspaper report, as the "James Marion Snodgrass" combination of
3-names together seems quite rare.

It appears that the Scripps Institute of Oceanography knew of
Snodgrass and had an interest in the acquisition of some of his
files, which may or may-not be relevant to this 'Secret'
situation he was reportedly involved with while at the motion
picture division of the Dayton Acme Company [Dayton, Ohio and
Wright-Patterson AFB?].

Upon reading the '47 article, I first presumed that this exotic
weapon was perhaps related to the projection of images
-holograms, as per his association with a 'motion picture
division' of the Dayton Acme Co., but upon closer scrutiny, the
term 'weapon' and comparison to "A-bomb potential" seems to
negate that possibility, as holographic projection would only
serve as a potential counter-measure in any battlefield
application and not have destructive capability as the term
'weapon' would imply.

I also surmised that this weapon may be an early EMP
[Electromagnetic Pulse] bomb. However, according to a report by
Defence Analyst Carlo Kopp entitled: "The Electromagnetic Bomb -
a Weapon of Electrical Mass Destruction," Kopp states, "The
ElectroMagnetic Pulse [EMP] effect was first observed during the
early testing of high altitude airburst nuclear weapons." This
statement indicates that the EMP effect was observed *after* the
conflict at Tarawa, which was during WWII at which time no high
altitude atomic tests had been conducted there.

The second person mentioned in the article, Professor Leech,
would be another name to keep alert for.

In light of Snodgrass' connection to The Scripps Institute of
Oceanography, I think it could be plausible that the alleged
"Secret Weapon" could be nautically based. What seems puzzling
is how that Snodgrass could go from a Chief engineer of the
motion picture division of the Dayton Acme Co., a consultant
engineering firm in Ohio from 1947, to having papers considered
valuable to the Scripps Institute of Oceanography in 1995.

Further, our understanding of the Tarawa Battle during WWII may
shed some light on this. A Navy-Marines operation was enacted in
the Central Pacific against Japan in August of 1943. The
following information was found at:

http://ac.acusd.edu/History/WW2Timeline/CRAIGE/doc1.html

        --begin excerpt--

The Marshall Islands would serve as an air base from which
further operations could be launched against the Marianas, and
from there against the Japanese home islands. But 500 miles to
the southeast of the Marshalls, an archipelago of atolls called
the Gilberts stood between U.S. forward ground air bases and the
Marshalls.

The Gilberts had only one workable airstrip for refueling
American aircraft and that was on the island of Betio in the
western Gilbert Island atoll of Tarawa.

The Japanese commander in charge of the defense of Tarawa, Rear
Admiral Keiji Shibasaki, said "A million men cannot take Tarawa
in a hundred years." He commanded 2,600 imperial marines, the
best amphibious troops in the Japanese armed forces. With the
importation of 1,000 Japanese workers and 1,200 Korean laborers
the island airstrip of Betio had been transformed into one of
the most formidable fortresses in the world, boasting 14 coastal
defense guns(four of which were taken from the surrendered
British garrison at Singapore), 40 strategically located
artillery pieces, covering every approach to the island, a
coconut-log sea wall four feet high lining the lagoon and over
100 machine gun emplacements behind the wall. All this was
concentrated on an island only a mile long and a few hundred
yards wide.

Meanwhile an armada of 17 carriers, 12 battleships, eight heavy
and four light cruisers, 66 destroyers and 36 transports
carrying the 2nd Marine Division and a part of the 37th Infantry
Division- some 35,000 soldiers and Marines headed for Betio in
early November of 1943.

In the moments before pre-invasion bombardment began, the task
force naval commander, Rear Admiral Howard F. Kingman announced
to the landing troops "Gentlemen, we will not neutralize Betio.
We will not destroy it. We will obliterate it!"

Neither Shibasaki nor Kingman knew what they were up against.

        --end excerpt--

[Thanks to Jim Martin for the information regarding Tarawa]

Aside from being a slight curiousity, there is nothing
substantive indicating that this strange story is UFO-related.

       Update - April 18:

Bob Barnes added that The Scripps Institute of Oceanography has
a research facility in New Zealand, and they receive funding
from NASA for oceanic gravitational studies.

He passed along the following information and comment:

From: http://scilib.ucsd.edu/sio/guide/libpic/history.html

        ---excerpt---

"By the end of 1948, the Library collection comprised over
22,000 volumes and 450 journal titles. In this photo dated Oct
27, 1943, SIO Library is the building in the middle, looking
south from the pier. By 1949, the Library was outgrowing the
stack space in the 1916 building. A working group on SIO space
requirements, chaired by James M Snodgrass, developed a "master
plan for the Library building" which presented plans and
recommendations for present and future quantities of volumes and
for upgrading deficient facilities in the building.

        ---end excerpt---

Barnes also remarked that SIO has a lab in New Zealand and SIO
receives funding from NASA. Of interest is the area of Marine
Gravity. See:

http://topex.ucsd.edu/marine_grav/mar_grav.html

There is a possibility that Snodgrass may have been removed from
the alleged Secret Project referenced in the '47 Cincinnati
newspapers resulting from his mention in media reportage. If
this scenario is likely, it could be possible he ended up with
the SIO by '49 in a capacity totally unrelated to the '47
"Secret Weapon" situation.

Also of interest from the original article was the mention that
Snodgrass had previously dealt with "research on the effect of
electric currents on the human body." It remains to be seen how
this relates to Snodgrass' involvement with the Motion Picture
division of the Dayton Acme Co., and his ultimate involvement
with Oceanographic research.

Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/






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                             UFO Roundup Delayed

From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:29:12 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:05:25 -0400
Subject: UFO Roundup Delayed


This weeks edition of UFO Roundup will not be published,
hopefully normal service will be resumed next week.

Please note that during this period the editor, Joseph Trainor,
will not have access to his PC meaning replies to mail will be
delayed.

Regards,


John Hayes

jhayes@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com
UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/
UFOICQ Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:-
        http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/






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                          London (UK) UFO Meetings

From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:16:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:09:24 -0400
Subject: London (UK) UFO Meetings


Roy Lake the Chairman of London UFO Studies has informed me of
the following meetings:


30th April 1999
---------------

London UFO Studies present "UFOs & Mutilations"

Venue: Unity Hall, Bramley Close, Walthamstow. London. E17

Speaker: Mervyn Newell, Unit Co Ordinater for East Kent UFO
Research Unit

Time: 8pm to 11pm (Doors open 7-30pm)

Admission: =A34.00, Children/OAPs =A32.00

Other Details: Phone Roy Lake on 0181-270-9919


14th May
--------
London UFO Studies present "The Holographic Universe"

Venue: Unity Hall, Bramley Close, Walthamstow. London. E17

Speaker: Mr Ian C Baillie B.Sc.Hons, PGCE

Time: 8pm to 11pm (Doors open 7-30pm)

Admission: =A34.00, Children/OAPs =A32.00

Other Details: Phone Roy Lake on 0181-270-9919


Regards,


John Hayes

jhayes@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com
UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/
UFOICQ Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:-
        http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/






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   Apr > Apr 19

             Re: Possible UFO Landing Near Blind River, Ontario

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:50:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:08:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Possible UFO Landing Near Blind River, Ontario


>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Possible UFO Landing Near Blind River, Ontario
>Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:02:15 -0400

>I received a call from my contact in Blind River and she
>reported the following incident:

>On March 24, a woman from Algoma Mills (7 miles from Blind
>River) had a close encounter while driving towards Blind River,
>where she was going to pick up her daughter at the local Tim
>Horton�s Donut Shop.  The time was approximately 11:20 p.m.

>When she got within a half-mile from Blind River, she saw an
>object lifting off from behind some trees at an RV trailer lot,
>near the shores of Lake Huron.

>She described it as cigar-shaped and red and white in colour.
>The object was �as long as one treeline to the other� (wider
>than the highway).

>When she saw it lift up above the treeline, she pulled right
>over so that she could get out and watch.  But when the object
>started coming over the highway, she decided to stay in the car.

>She sat there and watched as it came right over her car which,
>at that point, began to vibrate. That�s when she hit the gas,
>she said, because �she just wanted to get out of there.�  At
>that moment, that�s when it (the object) took off in a split
>second. It went right over the nearby hospital and was gone.

Dear Michel:

Can you tell us which direction the object went?

That is, which point on the compass, as the object
sped over the hospital?

Thanx

- Larry Hatch

=  =  =  =





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   Apr > Apr 19

                              Re: Ice Man Down

From: Edwin J. Martin Jr. <EMARTINJR@webtv.net ()>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:15:53 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:31:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Ice Man Down


>Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:35:08 -0500
>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: 'Ice Man Down' - New Roswell Revelation


>The second installment of an exclusive interview with Curt
>Robinson and Larry Rogers, authors of the upcoming book 'Ice Man
>Down', is now available on the internet.


Do you have any more updates on Iceman Down?

Thank you,






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   Apr > Apr 19

                        Cowboys vs The Flying Saucers

From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:48:28 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:34:44 -0400
Subject: Cowboys vs The Flying Saucers


Cool cartoon in 9 parts.

Source - http://www.conspire.com/cowboy-saucers/cowboy1.html

When you're done, backtrack to the index page and take a look
at the rest of the site.

Don


---






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                    This Week On The UFO Community On MSN

From: Diana Botsford <diana_botsford@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:55:08 PDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:58:35 -0400
Subject: This Week On The UFO Community On MSN


The UFO Community on MSN is available at

http://communities.msn.com/ufo/default.asp.

All chats are accessible by using either our built in chat page,
MS Chat or any IRC client.  The chat server name is
publicchat.msn.com and the channel/room name is #briefing.

========================================
***A Clear and Present Danger?
Chat with Activist Douglass

Elaine Douglass is a key proponent of our right and need to know
the truth. Listen to her audio interview and join the chat this
Sunday at 6pm, PT.

If one was to take the classic Sagan axiom to heart:
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", Douglass
would step in to narrow the gap.

From Apollo 12 mission controllers who've overheard
transmissions referring to 'having company' to her coordinating
efforts regarding NASA footage containing anomalies. As an
activist in DC, she has a lot to say regarding ET and where the
people of this country sit in regards to it's awareness.

Douglass has several points worth considering. Along with other
individuals, she has a drafted a "Declaration of the Rights of
the People of Earth" that outlines these points. And, she is
also quick to point out the need for wariness when considering
romantic or religious ties to ET. For more on this, read her
controversial commentary "Who needs Dave Jacobs When You Have
Joe Lewels?".  Both of these articles are available on our site
from http://communities.msn.com/ufo/doug.asp

Join Elaine Douglass at 6pm, PT at http://communities.msn.com/ufo


=========================================
More on the MUFON Ballot Initiative:

Robert Bletchman, MUFON Public Relations Director; Larry Bryant,
MUFON Government Affairs Directors; and Stephen Bassett,
lobbyist will be on the Mike Jarmus radio show discussing the
recent MUFON Board of Directors' vote to support the State
Ballot Initiative.

(http://njpeople.com/mike/indexmj.html)
Sunday, April 18, 11:30  pm EST

-----------------------------------------
SETI@HOME

Historically, SETI (The Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence) hasn't been on the most congenial of grounds with
the UFO Community. Neither party seems willing or ready to trust
the other - perhaps for good reasons. (Read Thoughts on
Responsibility - a commentary on SETI and the UFO Community by
this author available at
http://communities.msn.com/ufo/contact.asp)

With the advent of a new computer program - SETI@Home - perhaps
that will all change. You can download the software (UNIX for
now, PC and Mac are soon to come), and help search the skies for
a potential signal from ET.

Interested in finding out more? Try these links:
SETI@Home: http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
Register now for updates on software availablity.

ZDTV:
http://www.zdnet.com/zdtv/freshgear/firstlook/story/0,3679,2236112,00.
asp
Ziff Davis TV takes a peek at the program.

MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.com/news/255770.asp
Alan Boyle provides full scienctific coverage of SETI's hopes and
goals.


-----------------------------------------
Chats This Week at the UFO Community on MSN:

SATURDAYS - Abductions - 1pm, PT - 9pm, GMT
SATURDAYS - General Discussion - 6pm, PT
SUNDAYS - The Politics of UFOs - 6pm, PT
TUESDAYS - This Week in the News - 6pm, PT
WEDNESDAYS - Ancient Connections- 7pm, PT
THURSDAYS - UFO Skeptics - 7pm, PT
FRIDAYS - The Science of UFOs - 8pm, PT

Our chat room is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for
discussion relating to any UFO issues.  Meet your friends and
make new ones.


========================================

***Volunteers Wanted:

1)Our Publicity Department is in need of enthusiastic
individuals who would like a free MSN account in exchange for
assistance.

2)Must know basic HTML.  You will receive a free account with
MSN in exchange for helping out.

=======================================

We look forward to seeing you online.

Diana Botsford
Publisher/Forum Manager
UFO Forum
http://communities.msn.com/UFO

- - - - - -
"To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought . . .
To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield."
Tennyson's Ulysses



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                              Re: Ice Man Down

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 04:53:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:50:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Ice Man Down


>From: Edwin J. Martin Jr. <EMARTINJR@webtv.net ()>
>Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:15:53 -0400 (EDT)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Ice Man Down

>Do you have any more updates on Iceman Down?

>Thank you,

>Ed Martin


Mr. Martin;

In response to your question about the status of the book 'Ice
Man Down', I will be speaking with Larry Rogers next week and
will keep you posted if there is anything to pass along.

Respectfully,
KENNY YOUNG
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/





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   Apr > Apr 19

               Flying Saucer Model Use Lasers As Energy Source

From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:54:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:51:34 -0400
Subject: Flying Saucer Model Use Lasers As Energy Source



Source -

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/prop16apr99_1.htm


Space Science News

Riding the Highways of Light

Science mimics science fiction as a working
model flying disc - a "Lightcraft" - takes to the air


April 16, 1999: It looks like another fine product of Area 51,
and it really is shaped like a flying disc, and would even fly
like one. If it works, the family tree will trace back not to
Roswell, New Mexico, but Troy, New York.

"It came out of a trans-atmospheric vehicle design course at
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute," which is in Troy, explained
Prof. Leik Myrabo.

The microwave Lightcraft being studied by Myrabo and his
students is shaped that way because that's how the physics
works. It's an advanced derivative of a tiny, 25-gram craft that
he is pushing around on a 10 kilowatt beam of infrared laser
light in tests at White Sands Missile Range, N.M.

Myrabo discussed his work last week during the Advanced
Propulsion Research Workshop held in Huntsville.

"This is where we are now," Myrabo said, showing a picture of
Dr. Robert Goddard with his first liquid propellant rocket,
launched March 16, 1926. Just 43 years later, a sophisticated
descendant of that rocket sent the first humans to the Moon.

"My goal has been to cut the cost of getting to space by a
factor of 1,000 using a system that is completely green," he
explained of his passion for the past three decades. Since 1972,
he has been building on an idea developed by Arthur Kantrowitz
to use lasers to launch satellites. Myrabo introduced a
variation using the atmosphere as the propellant heated by a
laser. At higher altitude and at 5.5 times the speed of sound,
as the air thins, the craft would use a small supply of on board
hydrogen, still heated by the remote laser beam.

Myrabo's initial design for NASA was a 5-meter (16.5 ft)
diameter, four-person craft - "ma and pa in the front, two kids
and a dog in the back" - in a shape that he dubbed Acorn. The
front is shaped to reflect the coherent laser light into a
narrow region between the body and a shroud. The focused light
superheats the air to become a jet exhaust that pushes the craft
up. In this case, the laser power station would be based in
orbit.

He next worked on the Toy Top design which reversed the optics
for lasers based on the ground. The Strategic Defense Initiative
Organization was interested in this approach for rapid launches
of satellites weighing around 100 kg (220 lbs).

Under continued Air Force and NASA sponsorship, Myrabo has
developed and test flown a 15 cm (6 inch) diameter model of  the
Toy Top Lightcraft.

"We just passed Goddard's second flight of 92 feet (28 meters),"
Myrabo said. That limit, though, is set at 120 ft (37 m)  by a
light shield erected by a crane to stop the light beam and
eliminate the chance of blinding a satellite sensor.

The next step is to develop a 150 kilowatt laser that would
boost a larger model to 30 km (18 mi) altitude. Eventually, a 1
gigawatt laser would be needed to orbit satellites as
Kantrowitz, Myrabo, and others have long envisioned.

It's possible, though, that it all might be supplanted by
mid-21st century by the microwave Lightcraft. When word of his
work got around to the Space Studies Institute in Princeton,
Myrabo was asked if he could design a similar craft that used
microwaves beamed from space since microwave transmitters were a
more mature technology than lasers.

Myrabo (right) watches as students at Rensselaer run a computer
simulation for the air spike wind tunnel test on the Lightcraft
model held by the student at left. (RPI photo)

The concept that evolved is a part airship, microwave receiver,
and (the smallest part) jet and rocket engine, and as green as
any space concept. The 12-person, 20-meter (66 ft) craft would
be powered from the Earth's surface to the Moon by sunlight
captured by an orbiting power station (1 km diameter, 20 GW
power), converted to microwaves, and  beamed to rectennas
(rectifying antennas) that turn it back into electricity on the
Lightcraft. That's where the saucer shape comes from.

The airship part is a pressurized helium balloon-type structure
made of advanced silicon carbide film (transparent to
microwaves) to make the craft partly buoyant and to provide for
a large parabolic reflector for the energy beamed from space.
The craft would be encircled by two superconducting magnet rings
and a series of ion engines, and topped with solar cells.

At launch, the Lightcraft would use electricity from its solar
cells (powered by an infrared space-based laser at night) to
ionize the air and move the craft through electrostatic
discharges. The craft could move at 80 to 160 km/h (50-100 mph).

That's just low gear. Switching on the microwave transmitter
would make the Lightcraft disappear in less than an eye blink.
The microwaves would be focused by the internal reflector to
heat the air on one side or the other of the craft and push it
in the opposite direction.

"This is used to climb out to a good altitude and beyond the
speed of sound where you use the magnetohydrodynamic drive,"
Myrabo continued. Now the craft tilts from flying edgewise to
flying flat into the air stream. That seems wrong but for
another trick.  The microwaves are reflected forward to create a
superhot bubble of air above the craft and form an air spike
that acts as the nose cone as the Lightcraft accelerates to 25
times the speed of sound.

"This cleans up the aerodynamics of a vehicle that does not look
like it should fly in that direction," Myrabo said. Even better,
when the load is properly balanced the craft sails through the
air without leaving a shock wave and virtually no supersonic
wake. Water is used by the craft to cool the rectennas and as a
propellant in the last stages of ascent.

At least initially, during the prototype phase, it won't be for
everyone, just NASA and military test pilots. The
hyper-energetic performance will require that the crew ride in
liquid-filled escape pods to protect them from g-forces greater
than even fighter pilots occasionally endure. In some Air Force
Space Command schemes, the crew would breath an oxygenated fluid
to protect their lungs.

It all sounds a bit too much like science fiction, but Myrabo
points out that most of the technologies or principles have been
demonstrated. Faculty and students at Rensselaer have
demonstrated the MHD slipstream accelerator and the air spike
concept in a high-speed wind tunnel, and will test new models of
other parts of the propulsion system later this year.

"If successful, this will cut the cost of getting to space to
whatever someone wants to charge for electricity from the
orbiting power station," Myrabo said. "You could go halfway
around the world in 45 minutes, or from the Earth to the Moon in
about 5-1/2 hours."

At the Moon, the Lightcraft would zoom down a series of
ring-shaped electromagnets that would slow the craft, or could
accelerate another Lightcraft for the return to Earth.

"This would require a fully mature infrastructure to support
these vehicles," Myrabo said. But it could bring about an era of
airline-like space travel on "highways of Light."


---






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   Apr > Apr 19

                            The Vatican And UFOs

From: Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc <mbalien@tin.it>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:02:32 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:54:31 -0400
Subject: The Vatican And UFOs


Dear Researchers,

Last Saturday and Sunday I was in Ancona, here in Italy, for a
National UFO Conference.

I had the chance to interview Monsignor Corrado Balducci, famous
priest of Vatican that is studying UFOs.

He said to me that he is working only for a personal interest
and his involvement in UFO study is by Vatican command.

We know that Balducci is involved in the Third Secret of Fatima.
Most of you know that there is a test that is circulating by 25
years but was never confermed officially. To my question about
the test of Third Secret of Fatima, Balducci said:


"Yes, that test is correct. The Secret speaks about a Third
World War before the end of this millenium that will be a fight
with nuclear weapons. The living people will envy the dead,
probably for the sufferings of radiation. The secret speaks also
of a doctrinal crisis of the Christian Church. But that the
events will be happen only if the Humanity don't mend and don't
change their violent minds".


This is the first time that the Third Secret Of Fatima has been
confirmed by a member of Vatican.

With me there was Paola Harris.

Adriano Forgione
editor in Chief of UFO Network and Dossier Alieni





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   Apr > Apr 19

                          Gordon Creighton's 'C.V.'

From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:23:51 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:06:08 -0400
Subject: Gordon Creighton's 'C.V.'


Dear Errol,

A month or so back the name of Gordon Creighton came up on the
list and I told Kenny Young that I would try to find his 'C.V.'
as printed in a back issue of Flying Saucer Magazine.

As often happens time goes by and it slipped my mind until this
evening when I searched through my collection of FSR magazines
and found it in Volume 36, Number 3 (Autumn 1991).

For this reason it is important to remember that this article
was written more than 7 years ago.



SOME BIOGRAPHICAL DETAILS
(In response to requests from several FSR readers for an account
 of the curriculum vitae of the Editor.)
 Gordon Creighton, Editor of FSR

Orientalist and retired diplomat and intelligence officer, MA
(Hons.,), Cambridge. Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society
and the Royal Geographical Society. Educated: Lindisfarne
College, Bishop=92s Stortford College, Cambridge University, and
the Ecole Des Sciences Poitiques, Paris.

In an extraordinarily varied and interesting life, he spent many
years in diplomatic posts in China, Brazil, Belgium, and USA,
and subsequently served for seven years as an Intelligence
Officer in Whitehall. Thereafter was for some years engaged on
work for the British Government in research on maps printed in
oriental and other languages, at the Permanent Committee on
Geographical Names, Royal Geographical Society, London.

Sent first as a Language Student Attach=E9 to H.M. Legation (later
Embassy) at Peking. Subsequently received Royal Commissions to
serve at various times as H.M. Vice-Consul at Tietsin, H.M.
Consul at Chungking, and First Secretary/Consul of H.M. Embassy,
first at Peking and then at the war-time Capital, Chungking.
Further postings included various periods in the Far Eastern
Department of the Foreign Office in London. Then as H.M. Consul
at Shanghai, H.M. Consul at Nanking, H.M. Consul at Recife,
Brazil and Acting Consul-General at Antwerp, Belgium, and Acting
Consul-General at New Orleans, USA.

Being the Embassy=92s principal interpreter in Chinese, he had the
curious experience of being the first among the British
diplomatic officials to receive from Chinese Government sources
warnings about both the coming German attack (June 22, 1941) on
Russia, and the coming Japanese attack (December 17, 1941) on
the British and American bases throughout the Pacific and
South-East Asia. In the first case the tip-off came from
Generalissimo Chiang Kai-Shek himself, at a small dinner party
of the British Embassy with the key men of the Chinese Cabinet
on New Year=92s Eve, 1940. In the second case the information was
given to him by General Ho Ying-Ch=92in, Chinese Minister for War,
in July 1941.

In his diplomatic postings he developed a specialist knowledge
of international relations in Central Asia and the Far East and
particularly of Russian-Chinese relations, and also of Communism
and the worldwide Communist subversive activities.

Nevertheless, Gordon admits ruefully that, although, for some
months, he shared his office in the F.O. with Guy Burgess at the
height of the Korean War (June 1950-July 1953), he failed to
detect that Burgess, who was to defect to Moscow in 1951, was a
Soviet spy. (He did note however that Burgess possessed a most
remarkable knowledge of the sayings and writings of Lenin. But,
after all, a good diplomatic expert on Communism ought to do
that!).

From his childhood on a farm in Hertfordshire, his hobbies had
always been ornithology and entomology, so Gordon was able to
pursue the study of both birds and butterflies in many countries
around the world. But his greatest delight has been in the realm
of human tongues, for he has studied, and has varying degrees of
proficiency in, more than twenty-five languages, including
Latin, Greek, Russian, German, Dutch, Anglosaxon, French,
Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Proven=E7al, Arabic, Hebrew,
Chinese, Japanese, Sanskrit, Tibetan, Mongolian, Burmese, and
Shan, as well as the ancient Egyptian and Sumerian hieroglyphs,
and the Mayan glyphs of Central America.

Gordon has had a lifelong interest in most of the great
world-religions, particularly in Vedanta and Buddhism. Soon
after leaving university he also began to investigate
parapsychology and psychical phenomena, and has seen strange
experiments and weird "happenings" and phenomena, including such
things as "psychic surgery", and "metal-bending" on Five
Continents.

For many years a member of the British Society for Psychical
Research (SPR). Also a member of the College of Psychic Studies,
London, and of the famous Ghost Club in London (the oldest such
investigative body in the world). He is also a Freemason.

He has been interested in "Flying Saucers" (UFOs) since the
summer of 1941, when he saw one, over the Far West of China, not
far from Tibet, when he was stationed at the British Embassy,
then in Chungking.

He has contributed to FLYING SAUCER REVIEW right from its
establishment in 1955, and has been a member of its Board of
Directors for some years past. Now Editor of its Board of
Directors for some years past. Now Editor of the Review (since
November 1982).

In addition to writing regularly for Flying Saucer Review and
translating or helping to produce a number of books on UFOs,
Gordon Creighton has taken part in some forty TV and radio
programmes on UFOs, including broadcast talks or discussions in
French, Spanish, and German. He has also twice addressed British
Peers and MPs on UFOs, at Lord Clancarty=92s UFO Study Group (now
terminated) in the House of Lords.

He has translated a great quantity of Chinese material, not only
UFO reports, but also Chinese Government Laws, and technical and
scientific articles. He is also a translator of a collection of
classical Chinese love poems dating from the T=92ang and Sung
Dynasties (7th to 13th centuries A.D.).

In politics he is currently much interested in both the Free
Russian and the Free Chinese movements, being a member of Count
Nikolai Tolstoy=92s ASSOCIATION FOR A FREE RUSSIA, as well as of
the London section of the FREE CHINESE-BRITISH CULTURAL &
ECONOMIC ASSOCIATION, of which he is the Chairman.

(Incidentally, he recently delivered a talk, in London, on the
subject of UFOs, before a large gathering of members of the
Chinese Literary & Cultural Society in this country. As usual,
the subject was far too big a shock for the Chinese to endure,
and it is pretty certain that not one of them believed a word of
what he had to say!)

Gordon=92s wife Joan, later a College lecturer, with degrees in
the History of Art and in Literature (author of many humorous
articles in "PUNCH", and known as "EVE" to FSR readers(, was
also in the Foreign Office, and they both met just after the
Liberation of Europe, when both were posted to Antwerp by the
F.O.

They have a son and a daughter (unidentical twins), who were
born in Brazil, and three grandchildren.

[END]


Regards,



John Hayes

jhayes@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com
UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/
UFOICQ Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:-
        http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/





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   Apr > Apr 19

                   The Millennium Report - April 19, 1999

From: Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:38:42 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:29:51 -0400
Subject: The Millennium Report - April 19, 1999



The Millennium Report
News and Updates from The Millennium Project

April 19, 1999

_____________________________


NEWS OF THE WEEK

* Preliminary Analysis of Possible "Alien Skull"
   by The Starchild Project
* Early '99 Crop Circle Reports Increasing in England
* The Truth is Way Out There
* Filer's Files #15 - April 15, 1999
* First System of Multiple Planets Found Around
   a Sun-Like Star
* NASA's New "Flying Saucer"
* Future Spaceflight Technology
* First "Middleweight" Black Holes Found
* Astronomers Use Hubble to Find Oldest, Most
   Distant Galaxy
* NASA Leonid Balloon Snagged Some Far-Out
   Meteoroids


SPECIAL RESEARCH PROJECTS

* Y2K: Latin America Scrambles to Avoid Failures
* Mystery Contrails: Contrails Over Vancouver, BC?;
   New Reports from New Jersey; Contrail Connection
* Radar Anomalies: Multiple Rings Over Texas, Kansas,
   Minnesota and Iowa; Ring Over Tennessee


RELATED WEB SITE LINKS

* New Links Added

_____________________________


See the TMP web site for links to these current news stories and
updates, an archive of previous news and information on other
TMP resources:

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


The Millennium Report is the e-mail update service of The
Millennium Project, an independent research organization
initiated in January 1999 as an alternative source of news and
information to the maintream media. TMP was founded by future
studies researcher Paul Anderson, also director of Circles
Phenomenon Research Canada.

TMR is published weekly or as breaking news develops, with the
latest news, information and web site updates and is available
free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing
list, send your request, including either "subscribe TMR" or
"unsubscribe TMR" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.ca

TMP welcomes your news leads and submissions.
Forward all correspondence to:

E-Mail:
psa@direct.ca

Tel / Fax:
604.731.8522

Mail:
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC
V6J 1J
Canada

=A9 The Millennium Project, 1999






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   Apr > Apr 19

                          UFO*BC Update - 04-19-99

From: UFO*BC <david_pengilly@dccnet.com>
Date: 19 Apr 1999 16:44:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:51:18 -0400
Subject: UFO*BC Update - 04-19-99


We have recently updated our website - http://ufobc.org
The following items are linked from our Homepage, under
"What's New"

1) May 22, 1999 - Peter Davenport Lecture
 - Director of the National UFO Reporting Center, Seattle
 - 7:30 PM - Vancouver Planetarium
 - http://ufobc.org/davenport.htm

2) May 8, 1999 - Michael Cremo Lecture
 - author of "Forbidden Archeology"
 - 1 PM - Vancouver Planetarium
 - http://ufobc.org/cremo.htm

3) UFO*BC Quarterly - Spring 99 - Now available
 - $5 per issue, $20 per yearly subscription
 - http://ufobc.org/spring99.htm

4) Latest Sighting Reports from the Yukon
 - http://ufobc.org/yukon/yukonsightings99.htm

5) "Close-Up Sighting Verified by Mineral Claims Surveyor"
 - http://ufobc.org/yukon/closeup.htm

6) "A Whitehorse Family's Repeated UFO Encounters"
 - http://ufobc.org/yukon/familyindex.htm

***********************************************************

If you do not want to receive these updates, please reply
with your e-mail address and I will gladly remove your name
from the list. Thank you.

Dave Pengilly
dave@ufobc.org





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   Apr > Apr 20

                         BBC: Is Anybody Out There?

From: Steven J. Dunn <SDunn@LOGICON.COM>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:10:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:57:48 -0400
Subject: BBC: Is Anybody Out There?


Monday, April 19, 1999 Published at 13:06 GMT 14:06 UK

"Is anybody out there?"

By BBC News Online's Kevin Anderson in Washington

Scientists and theologians who gathered in Washington to discuss
the origins of life and the Universe ended their conference by
trying to answer the question: "Are we alone?"

The question seemed particularly fitting in light of the past
week's announcement that astronomers have discovered three
planets orbiting a Sun-like star 44 light-years away.

David Latham is an astronomer who has carried out research into
extra-solar planets by observing the gravitational pull the
planet exerts on the star it orbits, by causing the star to
"wobble."

"It's an exciting time for planet research," he said, adding,
"this will have an impact on our thinking about intelligent life
elsewhere."

But as to whether these newly discovered planets could support
life, Latham said that the planets are nothing like Earth.

Inhospitable giants

They are several times more massive than Jupiter, the biggest
planet in our solar system, and just like Jupiter are probably
inhospitable gas giants, he said.

But while astronomical observations can detect the presence of
planets around other stars, we can only measure the most basic
attributes of the planets, such as their orbit and a minimum
mass, Latham said.

We have yet to measure whether these planets have features that
would support life. According to Ken Nealson, some of these
include:

>the presence of liquid water

>plate tectonics

>and a magnetic field to shield the planet from cosmic
radiation.

Nealson is a senior research biologist with the Jet Propulsion
Laboratory. He is working on future missions to Mars, which will
look for signs of life on the Red Planet.

The mission will bring back samples from Mars, and Nealson
predicts a leap in scientific knowledge similar to the quantum
leap in knowledge that took place after the Apollo missions
brought back samples from the moon.

The mission has generated great excitement and interest in the
scientific community. "We're no longer on the fringe," he said.

Contact

Jill Tarter is the director of Project Phoenix for Seti,  the
Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. She is the model for
Jodie Foster's character in the film "Contact."

When her daughter was eight years old, someone asked her what
her mother did. Tarter's daughter answered: "she searches for
little green men."

But, she was quick to note that Seti is "not an investigation of
UFO's or alien abduction. It is not a religion or a cult. It is
not a way of directly detecting alien intelligence. It is also
not politically correct."

Seti was formally a federally-funded project under the auspices
of NASA, but the groups funding was cut in 1993. The group now
relies on private funding.


Human intelligence

To detect extra-terrestrial intelligence over interstellar
distances, they listen for radio transmissions.

But Irven DeVore, an anthropologist at Harvard University, said
that six of eight conditions necessary for life are highly
improbable.

On Earth, the development of human intelligence was itself
highly improbable, if "nothing but fortuitous."

For these reasons, he said, "the chances for communication with
another intelligence are vanishingly small."

Although they disagreed on the possibility of extra-terrestrial
intelligence, Ms Tarter and Mr DeVore agreed that if we did make
contact with intelligent life from another planet, it would be a
monumental event.

"Contact with an extra-terrestrial intelligence would be such a
momentous event that everything else would pale in comparison,"
Mr DeVore said.

Seti is ready for the day they hear a signal from space.

Ms Tarter showed a picture of Seti's refrigerator at the radio
telescope in Arecibo, Puerto Rico. They have a bottle of
champagne waiting ready for the celebration.





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   Apr > Apr 20

                      Re: (Skyopen) An Interesting Find

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:45:57 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:07:28 -0400
Subject: Re: (Skyopen) An Interesting Find


From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
To: UFO UpDates Subscribers :; <UFO UpDates Subscribers :;>
Date: Sunday, April 18, 1999 4:46 AM
Subject: UFO UpDate: (Skyopen) An Interesting Find


>Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:18:04 -0700
>From: William Hamilton <skywatcher22@earthlink.net>
>To: Skywatch Posting <skyopen@unix.ltlb.com>
>Subject: (Skyopen) An Interesting Find

>I have recently posted the results of a metal analysis that was
>done on a fragment of silicon sent to me by Michael Wolf.  I
>still have a major portion of this fragment.

>Today, while shopping in Pasadena, Ca. I saw a number of stones
>in bins for sale in one of the stores.

>My attention was immediately drawn to the bin of silicon they
>had for sale.  I bought one of the silicon fragments for one
>dollar.

>I have now compared it to the sample sent by Michael and they
>are identical in appearance, weight, and feel.

>This leads me to believe that Michael or someone he knows could
>have purchased a handful of the same kind of fragments and then
>presented them as remnants of a spacecraft.

>It is highly unlikely that such remnants would have that same
>appearance and feel.

>It becomes increasingly unlikely that Michael Wolf has divulged
>the real source of the silicon fragments which throws a long
>shadow over much of what he has said so far.

>Sincerely,

>--
>Bill Hamilton
>Executive Director
>Skywatch International, Inc.
>Website: home.earthlink.net/~skywatcher22



Bill Hamilton is to be congratulated for digging into this one.

I wonder if there isn't a connection with the sample so loudly
proclaimed by Derrel Simms as being Roswell Wreckage at the 1997
50th Anniversary Celebration in Roswell.

Not even a hint at why it was thought to be connected with
Roswell was provided.

I asked why, if it was silicon, which is a very important item
of commerce, no contact had been made with silicon manufacturers
which do as a matter of fact change isotope ratios.There was no
answer.

I might add that Dunn and Bradstreet checked out Michael's
"Institute".. It is imaginary.

His Foundation, based in Indianapolis is real.

Furthermore, none of the many supposed granters of advanced
degrees to him has found any record of his attendance .No thesis
advisors have been named.

The NSC says he wasn't a consultant.

ad nauseum.

Thanks Bill.

He is a Walter Mitty. Great dreams, no reality.






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              Another Ohio Sighting Reported To Law Enforcement

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:09:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:26:46 -0400
Subject: Another Ohio Sighting Reported To Law Enforcement


Police Report; UFO SIGHTING near Clyde, Ohio - April 14, 1999

Thanks to the courteous and professional employees of the
Sandusky County [OHIO] Sheriff's Office 'records department' for
sending the following document by FAX this morning -- KY

-----------------------------------------

Sandusky County Sheriff's Office
Calls For Service By Agency Type/Incident #

Incident #: 99002846
Incident location: Limerick Rd/N ST RT 19
Township Code: GRCK
Grid Code: CLY
Patrol Area: E
Street: Conner Dr.
City: Fremont
Disp Code: 003
Recvd Date: 4-15-99
Recvd Time: 16:01
Dipch Date: 00
Dispch Time:
Arrive Date: 00
Arrive Time:
Clear Date: 00
Clear Time:

Additional Comments: Miscellaneous

The caller stated that last evening around 9:30 p.m. when he was
travelling home he seen three lights: 1 very bright and 2 dim,
in the sky. He stated the lights appeared about tree top level,
and then disappeared. He believes there were three UFOs.

Deputy C Dearth/7261
1 call on record

-----------------------------

Thanks to Wendy Shuman for informing of this article from the
Fremont News-Messenger, dated Friday, April 16, 1999.

Source:
The Fremont News-Messenger
Friday, April 16, 1999

Column: Sheriff's Reports

UFO SIGHTING

John Pasch, no age or address listed, 9:30 p.m. Wednesday, on
Limerick Road near North Ohio 19, saw three lights in the sky
about tree level, one very bright and two dim. Quickly
disappeared. Believes he saw three unidentified flying objects.

                                                End of article
Comment;

This is yet another report from an ongoing string of sightings
that have perplexed Sandusky County, Ohio. UFOs have been
reported in this area since March 11, all sightings have been
announced to law enforcement.

For details, see:
        http://home.fuse.net/ufo/Fremont2.htm
        http://home.fuse.net/ufo/Fremont99.htm
        http://home.fuse.net/ufo/CLYDE99.htm
--
UFO Research





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                          Re: The Vatican And UFOs

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:49:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:49:34 -0400
Subject: Re: The Vatican And UFOs




>From: Bob YoungBob2@aol.com
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:13:23 EDT
>Subject: Re: The Vatican And UFOs
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>From: Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc <mbalien@tin.it>
>>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:02:32 +0200
>>Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:54:31 -0400
>>Subject: The Vatican And UFOs

>>Dear Researchers,

>>Last Saturday and Sunday I was in Ancona, here in Italy, for a
>>National UFO Conference.
>>I had the chance to interview Monsignor Corrado Balducci, famous
>>priest of Vatican that is studying UFOs.
>>He said to me that he is working only for a personal interest
>>and his involvement in UFO study is by Vatican command.
>
>Dear Senor Forgione:

>Please clarify the last sentence quoted above. Did Monsignor
>Balducci say that his interest in this subject is personal or on
>behalf of "the Vatican"?

There's a typo - which is _my_ fault.

Here's the sentence from Adriano's _original_ message:

---

He said to me that he is working only for a personal interest and is
involvement in UFO study is not for a Vatican command.

---

In my 'light' edit of the original message the word "not" was
inadvertanly dropped.






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                          Re: The Vatican And UFOs

From: Bob YoungBob2@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:13:23 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:45:32 -0400
Subject: Re: The Vatican And UFOs


>From: Adriano Forgione - Futuro Snc <mbalien@tin.it>
>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:02:32 +0200
>Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:54:31 -0400
>Subject: The Vatican And UFOs

>Dear Researchers,

>Last Saturday and Sunday I was in Ancona, here in Italy, for a
>National UFO Conference.
>I had the chance to interview Monsignor Corrado Balducci, famous
>priest of Vatican that is studying UFOs.
>He said to me that he is working only for a personal interest
>and his involvement in UFO study is by Vatican command.

Dear Senor Forgione:

Please clarify the last sentence quoted above. Did Monsignor
Balducci say that his interest in this subject is personal or on





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   Apr > Apr 20

                    2 UFO Sighting Reports From Australia

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:52:00 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:00:32 -0400
Subject: 2 UFO Sighting Reports From Australia


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian Research Network Hot Line Number
     1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************

2 UFO Sighting Reports

Witness: Kay McCullock
Sighting: 2 UFO Sightings
Day:   Wednesday
Date:   14th April 1999
Time: (1st at 5:30am & 2nd at 5:30pm)

1st Sighting: Wednesday 14th April 1999 at 5:30am

After being on holiday with my boyfriend (Peter) for 10 days in
Robinvale Victoria, today we were leaving to come home to
Brisbane. We had to catch a train from Swan Hill, Victoria (1=BD
hours south east of Robinvale), to get to Melbourne, stay there
for 3 hours and catch our 4.10pm flight to Brisbane.

Peter's mother offered to drive us to Swan Hill. We left at
approximately 5am. We had just past Boundary Bend when I asked
Peter what time it was, he said it was 5:30am.

I was sitting in the rear seat on the passenger side of the car
with two of Peter's nieces (so there was 5 people in the car). I
was looking out my window, watching the Moon peep though the sky
slightly with (Planet ??). underneath.

There was a slight glow from the Sun (which was to rise at :
am).

Whilst looking in the direction of the Moon, back here on Earth
I noticed a farm house, with dim lighting on.

In the paddock next to the farm house a very small single white
light appeared (it looked to be slightly off the ground).

As we drove past the property (at 100kph on a straight road) the
very small single white light abruptly (the abruptness of the
light changing from small to large made me jump as it happened
so quickly) formed into larger single white light in a
triangular/bell shape.

Then 9 smaller white lights (3 on each point slightly larger and
then 2 in between each point), they were not touching the larger
single white light.

As we moved along the road the smaller lights seemed to move as
if on a circular base.

No more than maybe 2 minutes had passed.

I asked Peter and everyone else did they see the very big bright
white light the size of a Mac Truck in the paddock.

Everyone said they didn't.

I then described to Peter what I saw and asked if it could have
been farming equipment. He said it may have been a tractor, but
has never seen anything like that.

I will follow up to see if it may have been farming
equipment. See Diagram.


2nd Sighting:

Day:      Wednesday
Date:     14th April 1999
Time:     approximately 5:30pm
Location: Melbourne

Peter and I had arrived in Melbourne. We did 3 hours of
sightseeing. We are now catching a bus to Tullamarine Airport
to catch our 4:10pm plane (QF628) to arrive in Brisbane at
6:10pm.

For 90% of the flight I was admiring the awsome view from 40,000
feet above sea level. I was day dreaming whilst pressing my head
up against the window. I came out of my daydream and was looking
mainly towards the middle to bottom right hand area of the
window.

At that point there was little cloud cover and I noticed a large
body of water, similarly shaped like Italy (Lake=85=85=85) then a few
moments later we flew over some clouds, then at the end of that
particular cloud mass I noticed a sparkle just out from the
cloud, at first I thought it was something shining from the
ground, but upon taking more notice of it, it was a silver disc,
the size of my little pinky nail.

It began to rotate as if some one were holding it and moving it
around. Just on the left of this disc was a smaller cloud and
just before I could see it no more it darted to that small could
and back to its original position.

If you were to measure that darting distance on a ruler it would
be approximately 3 to 4 cms.

After the object was out of sight, another cloud mass came over
then a clearing and I noticed a canal estate below. I thought we
were over the Gold coast, but couldn't see the surf or any sky
scrapers.

I then asked Peter what the time was, he said it was 5:30pm.!!
This meant we were nowhere near the Gold Coast (the Gold Coast
is approximately 15 to 20 minutes by plane from Brisbane) but
more likely Coffs Harbour.

Upon speaking with my flat mate, he said he new this body of
water as Lake=85=85=85.

And the estate was probably Coffs Harbour.


*****************************************************

Regards






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   Apr > Apr 20

                        Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:12:54 +0200 (MET DST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:08:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?


>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?
>Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:02:03 -0400

>>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:14:07 -0700 (PDT)
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

>>Of course it's quite OK to have doubts, but the doubts go both
>>ways. As I understand it, a significant fraction of the
>>anecdotal evidence that has most impressed those who have
>>hypno-regressed large numbers of apparent UFO abductees,
>>concerning the apparent reality of the experiences, comes from
>>what was reported while under hypnosis. Here I'm referring to
>>certain particular details of the experience which agree with
>>those told by other abductees, when the abductee in question was
>>unaware that any others had ever reported the same. Two examples
>>of this that come immediately to my mind have been disclosed
>>often enough that by now they are certainly no longer generally
>>unknown: the rounded walls of the room and its general
>>illumination without any light source being apparent. Various
>>other details, I believe, remain purposely undisclosed so that
>>they can still be utilized for corroboration.

>Jim, thanks for mentioning this. I was going to bring it up
>myself.

>You asked how many of these details come from hypnosis. Most of
>them, I'd think. One other that comes to mind is that abductees
>seen working with the aliens are reported to wear blue uniforms.
>Abductees also discuss the way the aliens' skin feels -- the big
>and little grays feel different. (Full details in "Secret Life.")
>And then there are Budd's 35 strikingly similar samples of alien
>"writing," which have been supplied both ways -- from abductees
>who've been hypnotized, and by others who remember the "writing"
>consciously. (These are supposed to be studied by JUFOS, if the
>journal ever publishes again.)

>The hypnosis question is far more complex than you'd guess from
>some of the discussion here. If you consider each hypnosis
>session with an abductee as a separate event, then there's no way
>to determine whether what comes out is accurate, even if the
>abduction had been real. But if you look at data from many
>hypnosis sessions, then patterns supposedly emerge.

>In his skeptical book on abductions, Philip Klass cites a study
>of police hypnosis by Martin Orne, telling us all to read it to
>see why hypnosis can't be used to retrieve information. But (not
>for the first time, alas), Klass misrepresents his data, as I
>discovered when I looked up Orne's report, and discovered that it
>doesn't say what Klass tells us it does. It says that testimony
>soley derived from hypnosis should never be used in court (and
>can't be, in many states where laws have been passed to ban it).
>It also warns that data gathered with hypnosis may not be
>accurate. But it also says that hypnosis used during a police
>investigation may prove useful, as long as the information
>gathered can be corroborated by other means.

>In abduction research, the patterns that emerge from many
>abduction accounts arguably serve as a kind of corroboration. Let
>me ask those who've expressed skeptical views of hypnosis: What
>would your reaction be, if you'd been present at several hypnosis
>sessions before "Secret Life" came out, and heard some of the
>abductees describe the feel of the aliens' skin in exactly the
>same way, without any prompting?

>Greg Sandow


Hi Greg, Jim and others,

I am happy to see you and others defend the use of hypnosis, not
just as a therapeutic tool but also as a tool for investigation.
When an investigative tool produces the same results over and
over again and when other tools, such as in this case conscious
memory, supply corroberative evidence, then it is entirely
scientific to say that this investigative tool has at least some
reliability.

The conclusion can only be that the questioning of regressive
hypnosis as an investigative tool does not originate in its
scientific usability, but either in lack of familiarity with the
data or in the disturbing nature of the material that emerges
from its use.


            __________________________________________
           /    Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes    \
                      Henny van der Pluijm
                      hvdp@worldonline.nl

                       Technology Pages
                http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
             \______________________________________/





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   Apr > Apr 21

                        Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:57:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:30:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?


>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:12:54 +0200 (MET DST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Regression Hypnosis: ...?

>I am happy to see you and others defend the use of hypnosis, not
>just as a therapeutic tool but also as a tool for investigation.
>When an investigative tool produces the same results over and
>over again and when other tools, such as in this case conscious
>memory, supply corroberative evidence, then it is entirely
>scientific to say that this investigative tool has at least some
>reliability.

To be fair, there's a lot of scientific research that shows
hynposis doesn't work very well as a tool for retrieving
memories -- but only under laboratory conditions. Nobody yet has
demonstrated that it can't work for memories of real, and highly
emotional, personal experiences. It's not 100% reliable, and is
likely to produce false memories, as well as real ones. There's
no dispute about that. But if it can produce any real memories
at all, that otherwise would be unavailable, then it's a useful
tool, assuming always that the memories can be corroborated.

>The conclusion can only be that the questioning of regressive
>hypnosis as an investigative tool does not originate in its
>scientific usability, but either in lack of familiarity with the
>data or in the disturbing nature of the material that emerges
>from its use.

This last is a good point. A lot of UFO data bothers people, in
my view, whether they admit it or not. Abductions are surely the
most bothersome of all of it. So there may well be some
emotional resistance to believing that they're real. (As well
as, on the other side, very possibly an emotional need to accept
them, though I'd think that would be more among people with a
positive view of the experience.)

Lack of familiarity with the data is also a problem. I'm sure
that many critics of hypnosis have never watched a competent
hypnosis session with an abductee. It's obvious that people who
come to Budd Hopkins, say, for hypnosis know what he believes,
and may have read his books. Thus, it's reasonable to wonder
whether they're predisposed to make up the usual abduction
story. But anyone who thinks this should watch the process
first-hand. At the very least, an observer would have to concede
that abductees are often shocked at what comes into their mind
during hypnosis. If they're making the stories up, they're doing
it against their own conscious wishes. An observer would also
have to concede that Budd doesn't lead abductees toward the
usual story, and that when he tries to lead them away from it,
the abductees can't budged.

I'm away for a week, so I can't promise a quick answer to anyone
who wants to discuss this.

Greg Sandow





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   Apr > Apr 21

                            First 'Grey' Report?

From: Jesus Millan Arias <jesusmillan@mx3.redestb.es>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:51:12 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:37:19 -0400
Subject: First 'Grey' Report?


Hi Errol, Hi all,

Please, could anybody tell me when, where and how (like
abduction, like contactee...) the first report about "Grey" type
beings appeared in Ufology

Thanks in advance.

#apologies for my scarce english. I=B4m Spanish.

Jesu e-mail: jesusmillan@mx3.redestb.es






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   Apr > Apr 21

                   UK Peak District Earthlights Radio Slot

From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:49:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:52:23 -0400
Subject: UK Peak District Earthlights Radio Slot


Britain's first interactive Skywatch Website was featured on the
prestigious BBC Radio 4 news programme "Today" on 20 April.

The Haunted Valley site - which is dedicated to the study of
mystery light phenomena in the Dark Peak mountains of Derbyshire
- was launched local researcher Debbie Fair two weeks ago.

Sunday April 18 saw the site's first online Skywatch, with the
camera watching the skies above Pike Naze moor and the Devil's
Elbow, but unfortunately heavy snow spoiled play!

The site has attracted much media interest from across the world
and for once the scientific study of UFO and light phenomena has
been given in-depth and sober coverage in a news programme on
prime-time radio. Longdendale Valley was chosen for the study
because of its long history of sightings of "spooklight"
phenomena which have been documented for several centuries. Both
traditional accounts of balls and beams of light on the craggy
gritstone rocks and barren moors, and direct eyewitness accounts
in recent years have contributed to the unsolved mystery. Dozens
of local people, including Peak Park rangers, police and even
Mountain rescue teams have witnessed these phenomena.

Website creator Debbie Fair was interviewed by reporter Roger
Harriban, on the Radio 4 programme which included contributions
by:

Dr David Clarke, of the Folklore Studies Department, University
of Sheffield, discussing the traditions of light phenomena
dating back several centuries;

Paul Devereux (author of 'Earthlights') on the background to
earthquake lights and role played by geological faulting and
seismic stress in the production of light phenomena; and

Dr Roger Musson, senior seismologist at the British Geological
Survey, Edinburgh, underlining the fact that scientists now
broadly accepted that seismic stress can produce "lights in the
sky."

The programme has already brought forth a flood of inquiries for
follow-up features in national and local magazines and
newspapers.

The success of the website demonstrates that UFO/light phenomena
can be taken seriously by science and hopefully one day will
produce direct evidence to substantiate the existence of these
exotic - and earthly phenomena - in this part of the Peak
District.

Visit the Longdendale Lights at
www.hauntedvalley.com





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   Apr > Apr 21

                      Re: (Skyopen) An Interesting Find

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:47:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:52:39 -0400
Subject: Re: (Skyopen) An Interesting Find


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: (Skyopen) An Interesting Find
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:45:57 -0300


>>Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:18:04 -0700
>>From: William Hamilton <skywatcher22@earthlink.net>
>>To: Skywatch Posting <skyopen@unix.ltlb.com>
>>Subject: (Skyopen) An Interesting Find

>>I have recently posted the results of a metal analysis that was
>>done on a fragment of silicon sent to me by Michael Wolf.  I
>>still have a major portion of this fragment.

>>Today, while shopping in Pasadena, Ca. I saw a number of stones
>>in bins for sale in one of the stores.

>>My attention was immediately drawn to the bin of silicon they
>>had for sale.  I bought one of the silicon fragments for one
>>dollar.

>>I have now compared it to the sample sent by Michael and they
>>are identical in appearance, weight, and feel.

>>This leads me to believe that Michael or someone he knows could
>>have purchased a handful of the same kind of fragments and then
>>presented them as remnants of a spacecraft.

>>It is highly unlikely that such remnants would have that same
>>appearance and feel.

>>It becomes increasingly unlikely that Michael Wolf has divulged
>>the real source of the silicon fragments which throws a long
>>shadow over much of what he has said so far.

>>Sincerely,

>>--
>>Bill Hamilton
>>Executive Director
>>Skywatch International, Inc.
>>Website: home.earthlink.net/~skywatcher22

>Bill Hamilton is to be congratulated for digging into this one.

>I wonder if there isn't a connection with the sample so loudly
>proclaimed by Derrel Simms as being Roswell Wreckage at the 1997
>50th Anniversary Celebration in Roswell.

>Not even a hint at why it was thought to be connected with
>Roswell was provided.

>I asked why, if it was silicon, which is a very important item
>of commerce, no contact had been made with silicon manufacturers
>which do as a matter of fact change isotope ratios.There was no
>answer.

>I might add that Dunn and Bradstreet checked out Michael's
>"Institute".. It is imaginary.

>His Foundation, based in Indianapolis is real.

>Furthermore, none of the many supposed granters of advanced
>degrees to him has found any record of his attendance .No thesis
>advisors have been named.

>The NSC says he wasn't a consultant.

>ad nauseum.

>Thanks Bill.

>He is a Walter Mitty. Great dreams, no reality.

>Stan Friedman

Dear Bill and Stan:

It would be a tough sell around here, a piece of special silicon
as a UFO fragment that is, anywhere near silicon valley!

In the microelectronics industry, pure silicon is doped with
everything from boron to phosphorus .. or left pure.

It is "seeded" into long cylindrical ingots with several
different crystal orientations, depending on the needs of the
semiconductor houses.

The end pieces, too small to slice into "wafers" are probably
tossed in the dumpster. Dumpster divers look for everything from
discarded gold plated connector leads to who-knows- what. I
found one happily scrounging away at 2300 hrs one night, he was
doing his recycling bit for the sake of ecology!

"Alien technology" like this is a dime a dozen. Too bad it cost
a whole dollar.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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   Apr > Apr 21

                   Astronomers Discover Mile-Wide Asteroid

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:57:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:05:21 -0400
Subject: Astronomers Discover Mile-Wide Asteroid



From the BBC science news page yesterday:

Astronomers have discovered a mile-wide asteroid that could collide
with the Earth in 40 years time.

If it did, the devastation would be continent-wide, with massive
global effects for decades. Hundreds of millions of people would
die and many animal species would be wiped out.

The object is called asteroid 1999 AN10 and it was discovered on
13 January. It was picked up by the Linear telescopic survey
that scans the sky for so-called Neo's - Near Earth Objects.

1999 AN10 circles the Sun every 643 days and twice each year the
Earth comes close to the giant rock.

From almost a hundred observations made of it since its
discovery, astronomers have determined its orbit. Close
approaches to Earth occur in 2027, but no impacts are possible
then according to Andrea Milani and Steven Chesley of the
University of Pisa. But 2039 is a different matter.

Close monitoring

In calculating the orbit for 1999 AN10, the Italian astronomers
say that for August 2039 "a collision solution actually exists."

It is important to note that this is different from a definite
prediction of a collision.

In fact, from what is known at the moment, the probability of
1999 AN10 striking the Earth must be less than the probability
of being hit by an undiscovered asteroid on a given day.

Nonetheless, now that the asteroid has been found, its orbit is
attracting attention.

The Italian astronomers say it will have to be monitored
closely. They add that it is conceivable that at some time in
the future a decision could be made to deflect or destroy it
just like in the movie Armageddon. Website publication Where has
this announcement of major importance been made? Not in a press
release but without much fuss on the astronomers' own Website.

NASA is concerned about the way in which information gets out.

Dr Benny Peiser of Liverpool's John Moores University, an expert
in Near Earth Objects, has expressed concern that the news of
1999 AN10 was released on a Website without going through normal
review procedures.

"There is no reason whatsoever why the findings about 1999 AN10
should not be available to the general public - unless they have
not been checked."

He adds that, if they have not been verified, they should not
have been posted on the web in the first place.

The reason why the Italian astronomers have released their
worrying findings this way may be a reaction to stringent Nasa
rules regarding the reporting of potential asteroid impacts.

Asteroid scare

Following a scare last year, when it was thought that asteroid
1997 XF11 may strike us, a claim retracted 24 hours later, Nasa
has clamped down on what it calls the premature release of
sensitive data.

1997 XF11 was a false alarm. It is unlikely that 1999 AN10 will
hit us - but it cannot be ruled out completely at this stage.

Calculations suggest that this asteroid will remain "dangerously
close" to Earth for the next 600 years.

According to Barry Peiser, what is worrying is not the chances
of 1999 AN10 striking the Earth but the "unnecessary and
detrimental secrecy that surrounds this object."

Other astronomers have said that the Italian astronomers have
followed the correct procedure to distribute information about
1999 AN10 and that there is no reason at this stage why they
should hav

---
      People can have it any colour, as long as its black!
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
         Research page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/





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   Apr > Apr 21

                Norfolk (UK) UFO Group Seeking Guest Speakers

From: Jak Solomon <m033jf00@mcmail.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:52:48 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:24:29 -0400
Subject: Norfolk (UK) UFO Group Seeking Guest Speakers


Norwich UFO group are currently seeking individuals with
specialist knowldege in any area of UFO/Paranormal related
issues to speak at the club, which meets fortnightly at:

Wensum Lodge,
King Street,
Norwich.

NUFOS is a sophisticated unit, comprised almost entirely of long
standing researchers and those with considerable experience in
the Paranormal as a whole, so it is important that speakers
reflect a serious level of comprehension and commitment within
their respective field.

If you are a speaker or know of people or groups where we might
find them please contact

jakk@cwcom.net

Look forward to hearing from you








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   Apr > Apr 21

                        Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:07:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:30:24 -0400
Subject: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?


Hi All,

This is just a quick line. I saw an old piece of footage the
other day on tape which was shot in County Sligo U.S. by a
chap called Tim Edwards.

I understood from the tape that Village Labs carried out an
analysis on this footage:

Q: What was the result of this analysis.

Q: What were the smaller low flying objects also observed on the
tape (And quite a few).

Q: Has Mr Edwards filmed anything since this event.


I would appreciate it if someone could give me some answers to
this  piece film.

Kind Regards'

Roy.. http://default/freespacevirgin/roy.hale.html





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   Apr > Apr 21

                            'Foolish' Speculation

From: Stephen MILES Lewis <elfis@io.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:44:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:42:36 -0400
Subject: 'Foolish' Speculation


Hello List, EBK, and all,

Just saw a commercial for a new comdey called 'Foolish'.

It starts off with a black comedian telling a joke about why
only white people meet aliens. He is telling the joke to a
predominantly black audience. The punch line is 'the aliens know
if they park in our neighborhood they'll get jacked.'

Or words to that effect.


SMiles Lewis
-keeping the hundredth monkey at bay during critical mass
http://www.elfis.net
elfis@io.com





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   Apr > Apr 21

                    Re: Open Letter on Environmental War

From: Alfred Webre <spirit@canada.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:19:37 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:49:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Open Letter on Environmental War


>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 03:13:16 -0700
>From: YourName - Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Open Letter

>>From: Geri DeStefano & Alfred Webre <spirit@canada.com>
>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:00:13 -0400 (EDT)
>>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Open Letter

<snip>

>>Please-how do you feel?

><snip>

>Well Geri and Alfred -

>How do I feel? I'll restrain myself and try to say this nicely.

<snip>

The philosophy and vision behind the open letter is contained in
a post at Global Psychics of Toronto, at their own initiative:
http://www.globalpsychics.com/lp/Prophecy/emp.htm

It is interesting to contrast the reactions of this writer,
filled with the symbols of American diss-culture, with the
respectful reception the open letter is getting among ecologists
in Russia, to whom it has been e-mailed, and who are circulating
it among their colleagues and communities.  It is a serious
effort.

As to my personal psyche, well, I am a therapist and counselor
(University of Texas, MEd) and my patients think I'm a good
healer.

Alfred Lambremont Webre, JD, MEd
Vancouver, BC







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                          Re: First 'Grey' Report?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:00:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:17:55 -0400
Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?


>From: Jesus Millan Arias <jesusmillan@mx3.redestb.es>
>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: First 'Grey' Report?
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:51:12 +0200

>Hi Errol, Hi all,

>Please, could anybody tell me when, where and how (like
>abduction, like contactee...) the first report about "Grey" type
>beings appeared in Ufology

>Thanks in advance.

>#apologies for my scarce english. I=B4m Spanish.

>Jesu e-mail: jesusmillan@mx3.redestb.es


Dear Jesus:

Tales of little men in strange craft go well back into the past,
of course.

For example:

June, 1914: Germany. A 'cigar' with lit windows was seen in a
field near Hamburg. 4 or 5 'dwarfs' ran back inside as observers
approached. The UFO took off vertically. This is from Jacques
Vallee's well known Magonia catalog.

January, 1925: La Mancha, Toledo, Spain: A 120 cm 'humanoid'
wearing a green uniform, was seen inside of a saucer shaped
craft... standing on its rim... and rolling along the ground!
[Olmos/CUFOS catalog]

- - - - -

The first case I have listed using the word "grey" in reference
to humanoids was in Australia: This dates back to 1933, but the
month, day and hour are not known.

At Discovery Well, Western Australia [123:48 E - 20:19 S]
Somebody saw an egg shaped object descend. Some grey aliens
exited. Supposedly, an aboriginal woman was abducted, and
subjected to 'experiments'.

The source for this is Bill Chalker's book 'The OZ Files', 1996,
pub./Duffy & Snellgrove, NSW, Australia.

I had borrowed and returned this book, so I cannot give any more
details than that. No doubt others on this List have a copy.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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                          Re: First 'Grey' Report?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:31:27 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:25:12 -0400
Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?


>From: Jesus Millan Arias <jesusmillan@mx3.redestb.es>
>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: First 'Grey' Report?
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:51:12 +0200

>Hi Errol, Hi all,

>Please, could anybody tell me when, where and how (like
>abduction, like contactee...) the first report about "Grey" type
>beings appeared in Ufology


When was the first grey report?

The earliest with any clear pattern in Europe was that in August
l947 at Villa Santina, Italy - although not reported until the
l950's. Like most early European cases the witness was
'sidelined' with a light beam and not abducted or contacted.

Although there are a few earlier cases with grey features none
earlier that I have seen are as close a match. The witness was a
science fiction writer and a geologist.

I had a grey type report made to me by a woman who lived in
Tanzania. The sighting was when she was a child around l950 but
it was not reported until the l980's.

UK reports of greys are few and far between before l987;
although now far more common.







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                      Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:33:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:21:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?


>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?
>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:07:55 +0100

>Hi All,

>This is just a quick line. I saw an old piece of footage the
>other day on tape which was shot in County Sligo U.S. by a
>chap called Tim Edwards.

<snip>


Dear Roy:

I can find no County Sligo in the USA, although there are two
towns by that name, one each in Louisiana and Pennsylvania.

There is definitely a County Sligo in Ireland, in the NW corner
of the Republic. I stayed there one night.

Is that what you meant?

- Larry Hatch

= = =







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                          Re: First 'Grey' Report?

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 99 10:17:56 PDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:48:04 -0400
Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?


>From: Jesus Millan Arias <jesusmillan@mx3.redestb.es>
>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: First 'Grey' Report?
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:51:12 +0200



>Please, could anybody tell me when, where and how (like
>abduction, like contactee...) the first report about "Grey" type
>beings appeared in Ufology

Coincidentally, this was a subject I addressed in my lecture,
"The Prehistory of UFO Abductions," to the IF Conference in New
York City on April 10.

After much searching, I was able to find only one report of the
sort of entity cited in many abduction accounts after 1965. This
makes it the first report of its kind.  While most CE3 witnesses
claimed to have encountered humanoids and (not infrequently)
humanlike figures, only the incident cited below features the
sort of being with which we have become familiar in the
abduction era. I quote from my lecture:

On December 11, 1957, the Prince George, British Columbia,
Citizen carried a story which reporter Ron Powell said he had
heard from a man who walked into the newspaper office. The name
of the man,  if he ever existed, is unknown.  As the story went,
the man had been in the U.S. Army occupational forces in Austria
in 1951 or 1952 when, as he walked home one night, a helmeted
figure stepped in front of him, paralyzed him with a pencil-like
weapon, and placed a square black plate on his chest which
caused him to float into a nearby UFO, which then shot into
space.  They landed in what amounted to a flying-saucer parking
lot on a planet the witness took to be Mars, though he was not
certain.  While there, he saw beings similar to the one that had
abducted him as well as figures who looked like normal, earthly
human beings, who did not acknowledge his presence.  He was then
flown back to the spot from which he had been taken.  His
abductor pointed the pencil weapon at him again, and he heard it
click, but this time he did not feel paralyzed, though he
pretended to be as the being removed the plate from his chest.
He also had the impression that he was supposed to forget what
had just happened to him, but the attempt at enforced amnesia
failed.  The being reentered the craft and departed.

Here is the description our anonymous alleged witness gave:

"He had no hair at all.... His head was sort of cylinder form.
A very high forehead, with big eyes.  You could see lots of
little eyes in the two big eyes.  It seemed to me it looked like
the eyes of a fly. No nose at all, just two holes. He had a very
small slit for a mouth. It looked like he had skin; it was sort
of white. There were two holes for the ears.  His skull was very
large.  The torso was formed kind of like a tin can.  The legs
were of proportionate length.  His arms were a little shorter
than our arms, I would say.  His hands seemed to be three long
fingers.  I couldn't see any neck, but he was wearing material
that was like silver but wasn't shiny."

Except for the "little eyes in the two big eyes," this is a
reasonably close approximation of other descriptions of the gray
or white humanoids of later abduction lore.  There are other
suggestive details: the otherworldly journey reported by some
abductees, the observation of other humans, the amnesia aspect.
On the other hand, this is a tale devoid of investigation or
verification even of the physical existence of the man who
supposedly told it.  For all we know, the reporter who wrote the
story could have made it up out of whole cloth simply to amuse
his readers.  As evidence of anything, it amounts to nothing. It
is just a curiosity.

Jerry Clark







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                      Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?

From: Sue Lawrence <NevadaFighter@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:40:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:55:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?


>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?
>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:07:55 +0100

>http://default/freespacevirgin/roy.hale.html

Sorry Roy I don't seem to be able to connect to your homepage.
Is this address correct?

Have you had the result of the footage you were having analysed
yet?

Sue

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/nevadafighter
http://go.compuserve.com/ufo
http://go.compuserve.com/paranormal






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                Overseas Researchers Visiting UK In October?

From: Sue Lawrence <NevadaFighter@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:40:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:57:29 -0400
Subject: Overseas Researchers Visiting UK In October?


Hi All,

Are there any overseas researchers in the UK in October this
year who maybe interested in doing a talk?

Please email me on: NevadaFighter@compuserve.com

Thanks.

Sue






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                            New Compuserve Forum

From: Sue Lawrence <NevadaFighter@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:40:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:59:13 -0400
Subject: New Compuserve Forum


Hi all,

We are pleased to announce that the Compuserve UFO Forum now has
a new sister forum - the Paranormal. This new forum covers
everything from Ghosts to Aliens, from Remote Viewing to Out of
Body Experiences and from the Millenium to Past Lives.

Check out this new forum at:

http://go.compuserve.com/paranormal


Sue

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/nevadafighter
http://go.compuserve.com/ufo
http://go.compuserve.com/paranormal






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                      Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?

From: Dave Ledger <dledger@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:37:20 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:41:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?


>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:33:05 -0700
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?

>>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?
>>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:07:55 +0100


>>This is just a quick line. I saw an old piece of footage the
>>other day on tape which was shot in County Sligo U.S. by a
>>chap called Tim Edwards.

><snip>

>I can find no County Sligo in the USA, although there are two
>towns by that name, one each in Louisiana and Pennsylvania.


Greetings Errol, Roy and co,

Roy, I think the name of the place you are looking for is called
Salida in Colorado, United States. This is where Tim resides and
it is also the location from where his excellent footage was
recorded on Aug. 27,1995.

I hope this helps :0)  All the best the noo min,

From your friend,


Dave Ledger (UFO Scotland)

--
==================================================================
If you see someone without a smile......give them one of yours :)
******************************************************************
Posted by: Dave Ledger  (mailto:UFOSCOT@cableinet.co.uk)
VISIT "UFO SCOTLAND" AT:
http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/index.htm
ICQ pager      http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4851425
******************************************************************
THE TRUTH IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER!..................BUT HOW FAR?
==================================================================
"The sands of time are trickling away from our dear mother Earth
 and yet we continue to fight amongst ourselves and destroy our
natural enviroment,leaving all the mess for our children and their
children's children to inherit when we're gone."





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                          Re: First 'Grey' Report?

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:57:16 +1000
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:18:06 -0400
Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?


>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:00:01 -0700
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?

>>From: Jesus Millan Arias <jesusmillan@mx3.redestb.es>
>>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: First 'Grey' Report?
>>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:51:12 +0200

>>Hi Errol, Hi all,

>>Please, could anybody tell me when, where and how (like
>>abduction, like contactee...) the first report about "Grey" type
>>beings appeared in Ufology

>Tales of little men in strange craft go well back into the past,
>of course.

<snip>

>The first case I have listed using the word "grey" in reference
>to humanoids was in Australia: This dates back to 1933, but the
>month, day and hour are not known.

>At Discovery Well, Western Australia [123:48 E - 20:19 S]
>Somebody saw an egg shaped object descend. Some grey aliens
>exited. Supposedly, an aboriginal woman was abducted, and
>subjected to 'experiments'.

>The source for this is Bill Chalker's book 'The OZ Files', 1996,
>pub./, NSW, Australia.


Hi Larry & Jesus

Bill Chalkers book 'The OZ Files', 1996 can be obtained through

Duffy & Snellgrove
PO 177
Potts Point NSW 2011
Australia

The OZ files page 20
A UFO ABDUCTION IN 1933

Australian mysteries researcher Rex Gilroy recorded an intriging
tale that involved an Aboriginal woman in a UFO abduction in
1933 at the isolated locality of Discovery Well, on the northern
edge of the Great Sandy Desert, in Western  Australia.

The story echoes the tribal legends and traditions of men and
women being abducted by "sky gods" or culture heroes" in the
Dreamtime.

In Gilroys account, the Aboriginal women claimed her tribe had
been frightened off from Discovery Well when a large shiny egg
suddenly came down out of the sky. In brad daylight the strange
object flew low over them. Several beings described as strange
gery skinned and man-like  came out of the egg. The women said
to have been stunned by an object carried by one of the beings
and then carried aboard was strapped down to a table and
experimented with.


Similar Reports:

Powerful Beings and Moon Men: page 21
Ancient Traces in the West Kimberly Area: page 18

*************************************************************

If you're interested in Australian Encounters this is a good book
to have on your bookshelf. If you would like to see more  books
by other Oz & NZ Authors

Visit:

http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw/new/Authors.htm

Kind regards,

Diane Harrison
Founder of the Keith Basterfield Network Australasia





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                      Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?

From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:33:44 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:53:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?


>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:37:20 +0100
>From: Dave Ledger <dledger@cableinet.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?

>>I can find no County Sligo in the USA, although there are two
>>towns by that name, one each in Louisiana and Pennsylvania.

>Roy, I think the name of the place you are looking for is called
>Salida in Colorado, United States. This is where Tim resides and
>it is also the location from where his excellent footage was
>recorded on Aug. 27,1995.

I believe it is Salida, Colorado. There's a small restaurant in
Salida called, "ET's Landing", that is done in a complete UFO
theme. You can't miss the restaurant, as it's the only one in
Salida that has a prominent UFO on their sign. They menus tell
of Tim's video captures of UFO's in Salida, a few years back.
I'm not sure if they sell his video or not, but they do sell a
small collection of UFO books and some videos.

Salida is north of my home, Crestone, about some 45 miles. This
entire area, from the San Luis Valley up to Chaffee county,
which is where Salida is, has a long history of UFO sightings,
which has been documented by Chris O'Brien in his two books on
the phenomenon in this area.

Don
http://www.totcon.com/users/dona


---

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson






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                      Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?

From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:48:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:22:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?


>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:37:20 +0100
>From: Dave Ledger <dledger@cableinet.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?

>>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:33:05 -0700
>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?

>>>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>>>Subject: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?
>>>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:07:55 +0100

>>>This is just a quick line. I saw an old piece of footage the
>>>other day on tape which was shot in County Sligo U.S. by a
>>>chap called Tim Edwards.

>><snip>

>>I can find no County Sligo in the USA, although there are two
>>towns by that name, one each in Louisiana and Pennsylvania.

>Roy, I think the name of the place you are looking for is called
>Salida in Colorado, United States. This is where Tim resides and
>it is also the location from where his excellent footage was
>recorded on Aug. 27,1995.


I have coverage and footage of Tim's UFO in the "Want To See A
UFO?" Section of UFO Folklore at:

http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html


--
UFO Folklore !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html

Dan's Magic in Michigan
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/magician





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                               New Website URL

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:53:45 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:53:38 -0400
Subject: New Website URL


Dear friends'

Please try out my website with this new address. Please
disregard the old one' to say I had some technical problems
could be an understatement but it now looks as if the web-site
is running exactly how I made it. There is a very short
explanation about this on the very first page.

http://freespace.virgin.net/roy.hale.htm

Please give me your feedback on this site so I can improve it as
I go along. If you would like to link sites then please use the
contact page on the site.

Once again please use the new address above only and disregard
the old one.

Hope you enjoy the site.

Kind regards'

Roy..





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                       Sightings In Islamic Countries?

From: Alfredo Lissoni <alisson@tin.it>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:16:18 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:09:39 -0400
Subject: Sightings In Islamic Countries?


Hi list, I'm searching for UFO sightings in Islamic ountries.

Can you help me, please?

Thanks for all,

Alfredo Lissoni (alisson@tin.it),
Secretary of National UFO Center - Italy






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                              Re: Author query?

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:57:54 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:50:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Author query?


>>From: Paul B. Thompson - ParaScope <MrApol@aol.com>
>>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:23:39 EDT
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: Re: Author query?

>>No, Philip Klass, the aviation writer and UFO skeptic, is not the
>>same man as William Tenn, a mathematics professor who wrote
>>science fiction under the pseudohym, 'Philip Klass'.

>>Paul B. Thompson
>>ParaScope


Thanks Paul, Errol.
---


      People can have it any colour, as long as its black!
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
         Research page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/





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                  'The Varginha Incident' - Gamers' Archive

From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:33:42 PDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:48:42 -0400
Subject: 'The Varginha Incident' - Gamers' Archive


G'day all,

I stumbled across this new game and thought it may be of
interest to some of you. Sorry Applettes it is for IBM compats
only.

3D Action Gamers' Archive - The Varginha Incident
http://www.3dgamers.com/3daction/00archives/varginhaincid/


Regards,
Leanne.







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                      Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:06:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:01:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?



Hi All,

Sorry about the mix up with the name of this place' I think my
memory is fading as the years go by!

Yes it was in Salida and was featured on quite a few networks in
the US, but as usual nothing shown in the UK' (I think?).

Is there anyone who has a contact for Village Labs Arizona?

Only I would like to know a little more about this object and
it's analysis.

Also has what are your views on the Carlos Diaz film footage
taken some years back. The tape I have seems to show a orangey
yellow, low manoeuvring object of some kind.

Does anyone know if there has been any analysis of this footage?

The object also seems to make the farm animals go mad ' why?

Just some thoughts...

Roy..

http://freespace.virgin.net/roy.hale.index.htm







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                     BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed

From: Steven J. Dunn <SDunn@logicon.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:06:28 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:37:41 -0400
Subject: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed


Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_325000/325290.stm

Prehistoric Moon map unearthed

Original Publication Date 1999/04/22 04:07:21

By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse


A map of the Moon 10 times older than anything known before has
been found carved into stone at one of Ireland's most ancient
and mysterious Neolithic sites.

It has been identified by Dr Philip Stooke of the University of
Western Ontario in Canada. He spends most of his time preparing
maps of asteroids based on spacecraft observations, but he has
also prepared detailed maps of the Moon.

What puzzled him greatly was that there was no recorded map of
the moon older than about 500 years. "I simply could not believe
this," he told BBC News Online. "I felt there just had to be an
older map somewhere."

Prehistoric tombs

So he began looking in old manuscripts and history books as well
as the records of excavations of the Neolithic sites of the
British Isles.

Then he found one. It took the eye of an expert to see it for
what it was. It was carved into a rock in one of Ireland's most
remarkable prehistoric tombs at Knowth, County Meath.

"I was amazed when I saw it. Place the markings over a picture
of the full Moon and you will see that they line up. It is
without doubt a map of the Moon, the most ancient one ever
found," said Dr Stooke.

"It's all there in the carving. You can see the overall pattern
of the lunar features from features such as Mare Humorun through
to Mare Crisium."

Before this discovery, the oldest map of the Moon was by
Leonardo da Vinci, drawn about 1505. The Knowth map is 10 times
older.

Knowth is already a major focus of research into understanding
prehistoric man. Now it will become one of the most important
scientific sites in the world.

"The people who carved this moon map were the first scientists,"
says Dr Stooke. "They knew a great deal about the motion of the
moon. They were not primitive at all."

The passage tomb at Knowth is estimated to be about 5,000 years
old. It was obviously built by men who had a sophisticated
understanding of the motions of the Sun, Moon and stars. It is
known that many stone circles and ancient tombs are aligned with
the Sun but less attention has been paid to possible lunar
alignments. This is despite the fact that at certain times the
Moon can rise or set at any location on the horizon that the Sun
can.

Series of arcs

Investigations at Knowth almost 20 years ago showed that at
certain times moonlight could shine down the eastern passage of
the tomb.

Remarkably, the moonlight would also fall on the Neolithic lunar
map.

During excavations, the stone in question was named Orthostat
47. Its right-hand section contains a series of arcs.

The circular limb of the moon is not included in the carving. Dr
Stooke believes that it may have been drawn on the rock with
chalk or with coloured paint.







                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 22

                    Jerry Black's Open Letter to Friedman

From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:04:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:45:32 -0400
Subject: Jerry Black's Open Letter to Friedman


As always, don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger, heh heh. Mr.
Jerry Black has asked me to pass this along to the list, and to
let you all know that an e-mail account has been established for
him. (See bottom of this article)

Thanks,

Glenn


     AN OPEN LETTER TO STAN FRIEDMAN

My name is Jerry Black, and I will now state, for the record, my
position on the UFO topic. After 41 years of researching and
investigating UFOs, I certainly believe that we are dealing with
a very real phenomenon.

As with many other objective and scientific searchers, I do not
feel that we have the positive, indisputable proof of what the
phenomenon represents. Certainly, there is a great deal of
evidence which seems to support the extraterrestrial theory.
This evidence does not come from the MJ Papers, or from the
alleged UFO crash at Roswell, and certainly not from the "alien
autopsy" video. It comes, instead, from the thousands of reports
of citizens, in every walk of life, who have reported seeing an
object, and, in many cases, losing time, to eventually, through
their own remembering, or through the use of hypnosis, recall
being abducted by small humanoid beings (in most reported cases).

However, there are other theories too. One of these theories
concerns the concept that UFOs are continually passing from
dimension to dimension. Another theory involves a religious
aspect. There are many theories, as we will all agree. At the
present time, because I feel, as do many others, that we do not
have solid, 100 percent proof as to what these objects are, all
of these theories are open for discussion.

Mr. Friedman, I would like to now refer to your response to my
open letter to Mr. Bruce Maccabee. You wrote:

"As a member of the Board of MUFON, and as a scientist who has
known Dr. Maccabee for about 30 years, and who has indeed met Ed
Walters, I will here state my unequivocal support for Dr.
Maccabee's objectivity, attention to details, and careful
approach to ufological research in all areas including his
investigation of the Ed Walters case.

"I have yet to see any indication that Mr. Black is a scientist
or has published in peer reviewed journals. Having strong opinions
is not the same as being objective."

Are you trying to impress me, Mr. Friedman, with the fact that
you are on the Board of Directors of MUFON? Is this the same
Mutual UFO Network that, for over ten years, has continued to
support the Ed Walters case? The case which was an embarrassment
to the UFO community? The case which has been proven
conclusively to be a hoax? Is this the same organization whose
leader, Mr. Walt Andrus, has said on radio broadcasts that
aliens are interbreeding with humans? Is this the MUFON that
supports Budd Hopkins' book, Witnessed, the ridiculous story of
a woman who was abducted through her bedroom window in
Manhattan? I do not think there are any long lines, Mr.
Friedman, of people waiting to be on the Board of Directors of
the Mutual UFO Network.

In 1978, I attended my first and only symposium given by the
Mutual UFO Network, in Dayton, Ohio. If I had a $100.00 bill for
every time I heard the word "I" used, I could have built my wife
and I a very expensive home. I say this only to demonstrate the
ego trips of the people involved in that conference.

I note here your support for Mr. Bruce Maccabee. Thank you for
letting me know that the "Old Boys' Club" is still alive and
well. Of course, the "Old Boys' Club" consists of Walt Andrus,
Bruce Maccabee, Budd Hopkins, Don Berliner, and yourself, Mr.
Friedman. There are possibly a few others that I could mention.
Obviously, none of you gentlemen are going to have anything
critical to say about the other. This has been going on for
years.

Apparently, Mr. Friedman, you are not as informed on the Gulf
Breeze case as you might be, yet you are willing to accept the
work of Mr. Maccabee without taking an objective look at the
entire body of available data on the Gulf Breeze sightings,
particularly pertaining to Ed Walters. If my own father (God
rest his soul) was a UFO investigator, and had investigated the
Gulf Breeze case, doing as poor a job as Mr. Maccabee has done,
I would be just as inclined to question the veracity of his
investigation.

You state that you have not seen any of my work in peer-reviewed
journals... Does my work have to appear in peer-reviewed
journals for it to be valid and objective? You also state that I
must have strong opinions about the case, but that is not the
same as being objective. Let me inform you, Mr. Friedman, that
the opinions come from your good friend, Bruce Maccabee. William
G. Hyzer and his son, James B. Hyzer, did make a scientific,
objective analysis of Ed Walters' photographs. They found that
Photo #19 was, without question, a double exposure. The other
nine photographs they had to work with all showed signs of
double exposure. Walt Andrus and Bruce Maccabee, your good
friends, stated in the MUFON Journal that Mr. Hyzer's evaluation
was only an opinion. So I don't believe that my statements are
merely an "opinion." My statements are coming from an objective
and scientific point of view. My statements are based on some
very real scientific investigation conducted by the Hyzers.

Mr. Friedman, you and all of your friends in the "Old Boys'
Club," all believe that you have proven, 100 percent, that UFOs
are extraterrestrial. Let's talk about your work, Mr. Friedman,
on the Majestic 12 issue. I have taken the time to read your
book, Top Secret Majestic," written in 1996. Personally, I do
not believe you have proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt that the
Majestic 12 papers that were received in 1984 are legitimate
government documents. With the present technical abilities, even
at that time in 1984, these documents certainly could have been
faked. Today it would be even much easier and less expensive.
The point is, it could still have been done in 1984. And
certainly, when one receives documents in the mail, to which one
has no source whatsoever to rely on, there are already two
strikes against you before even starting your research. I would
never deal with any documents sent anonymously to me in the
mail. Yet you have spent nearly 15 years trying to authenticate
these documents. There is no way you can validate them 100
percent. There have been many questions raised about the
validity of these documents throughout the past 15 years. Some
have been resolved; many have not. Many of these issues were
brought to your attention by some sincere and objective
researchers. For the most part, many of these questions remain
unanswered.

The bottom line is there seems to be no way to validate these
documents, somewhat contrary to what you are telling readers in
your book, Top Secret Majestic. However, it certainly has been
to your advantage to claim that you are certain that
extraterrestrials are visiting this planet, and that the MJ-12
papers are authentic, simply because this keeps you in "demand"
for the network television shows, cable specials, and your
lecture circuit. In effect, this is what the television shows
want to hear, and this is what the people that attend those
lectures want to hear. But in reality, Mr. Friedman, you and I
know that you do not have substantial proof of either of these
things.

Whenever you are dealing with military people, in terms of being
given information concerning the MJ-12 papers, or even the
alleged crash of a UFO at Roswell, New Mexico, you have to
remember that you could be getting disinformation. It seems very
strange to me that there are so many retired military people
that have refused to speak on the subject of Roswell, or the
MJ-12 papers, because they say that they can be fined, or even
lose their pensions, should they give up any military secrets
whatsoever. However, others not only seem to be willing to speak
freely to people like yourself, Kevin Randle, and others, but
are even writing books; yet nothing seems to be happening to
these people, in terms of any discipline from the military. It
has to make one wonder if this is true information, or
disinformation.

On the subject of the alleged UFO crash at Roswell, both you and
Mr. Kevin Randle claim that this incident proves
extraterrestrials are visiting this planet. However, both of you
gentlemen, since your books have come out, have claimed that the
other's witnesses are bogus. Most people are now more confused
about the crash at Roswell than they were before your books were
published. Certainly neither of you have proven conclusively
that an extraterrestrial craft crashed there in the summer of
1947. Several of your witnesses, both Mr. Randle's and yours,
Mr. Friedman, have fallen by the wayside. Had more time and
expense been given to these books by you gentlemen, in terms of
possibly polygraphing more people about their alleged
involvement, perhaps some of these "witnesses" could have been
weeded out in the beginning, and not been an embarrassment to
you.

Returning to the MJ-12 documents, I find it almost unbelievable
that, after 14 or 15 years you are still working on them.
Certainly the technology was sufficient for anyone who had the
money back in 1984 to produce fake documents that you, I, or
anyone else would never be able to detect. This also stands true
now for photographs. Mr. William G. Hyzer informed me that the
technology today is as such that anyone who has a computer and
the money can make a UFO photograph that no one would ever be
able to detect as being a hoax. So one has to question why you
continue to work on the MJ-12 documents, knowing the
questionable way in which they arrived in the hands of the UFO
researchers to begin with, and knowing you will never be able to
solidly prove their validity.

The only reason I can think of as to why you would continue to
profess that extraterrestrials have definitely visited this
planet, and that the MJ-12 documents are genuine, is because of
the financial gain you achieve by keeping the interest of the
television networks and the general public.

There is no question that the words, "MJ-12 Documents," have a
ring of mystery to them. In fact, these words have been used in
several UFO movies and television shows that have been made
since 1984. However, that does not make them genuine. It does
serve a purpose for the networks and cable special producers,
though, in being able to use those words, with their mystique,
and to have people such as yourself on to comment about them. It
increases their ratings. They are also words that will draw a
lecture audience, because of their mystique.

It is therefore my opinion, Mr. Friedman, that you are more
concerned with promoting yourself than you are with scientific
and objective UFO research. There is a saying circulating in the
UFO Community, that goes... "Tell Stan Friedman and Budd Hopkins
where there's a television camera, and they'll be there." In
some cases the quality of the particular presentation doesn't
even seem to matter, as long as it will be viewed by a large
audience. It is sad when the two UFOlogists seen and recognized
by the most people on national television are espousing stories
of aliens interbreeding with humans, and that aliens are
definitely visiting this planet; yet neither of you have actual,
concrete proof to validate such statements.

As I was reading your book, I noticed with interest that, on the
front cover it says, Foreword by Whitley Strieber. Having
recently spent four and a half months reviewing all of Whitley
Strieber's work, then asking him and his wife, Ann, to take a
polygraph test (to which they have not responded), I found it
interesting that you would have him write the foreword to your
book. I assume that most people, when they buy your book, and
see that Whitley Strieber has done the foreword, they assume
that you believe his case to be a valid case.

In my review of Whitley Strieber's work, I found there was
absolutely no validation for any of the numerous experiences
that Mr. Strieber had. Coupled with the fact that he and his
wife both refuse to take the paid polygraph tests that I have
asked them to take, I have no choice but to conclude that the
entire Whitley Strieber scenario with the Visitors is anything
but an elaborate hoax.

Now, you, sir, claim to be a scientific and objective
investigator. If you have scientific and objective evidence that
shows that Whitley Strieber's alleged experiences are valid, I
wish you would present that to us. I see none whatsoever. And I
know of no investigator, including yourself, who has ever made a
comprehensive examination of the Strieber case. You might say
that the publishers forced you to have Whitley Strieber write
the foreword; I have no idea if that is the case or not.
However, I am aware of this: you have a right to say "yes" or
"no." This is where integrity comes into the issue.

I would never allow Mr. Strieber to write a foreword to any book
that I might ever write in the future, concerning UFOs. I would
not care what the publisher might say, I would not care if it
meant going to another publisher. As I said, this is where the
integrity issue arises. When I look at your book, and I see
Whitley Strieber's name on it, I am personally suspicious of
you, because, obviously, you are more concerned with selling
books and making money than you are with your own integrity in
the UFO field, if you allowed this to happen. Then again, I
don't know; perhaps you even suggested or sought out Whitley
Strieber, simply because of the fact that he is a well-known
author, albeit one presenting highly questionable material to
the public.

I want to speak now about a subject that certainly includes you,
Mr. Friedman, that is rarely talked about in the UFO field. That
is the outlandish ego trips that some of our major, self-
appointed leaders seem to have ended up on. The three people
that first come to mind (and there are many more) are yourself,
Mr. Friedman, Budd Hopkins, and Kevin Randle. Just because you
three gentlemen appear on television more frequently than other
UFOlogists does not mean that your work is more credible. In
fact, in these particular cases, basically you gentlemen are
only telling the media what they want to hear. That, of course,
is why you are always on television, talking about
extraterrestrial visitations, crashes that are extraterrestrial
in origin, and aliens interbreeding with human beings. None of
you can conclusively prove any of this, but, since you do make
the positive statements, this is why you are sought out. The
networks know that this type of material is interesting, and
will sell. That's all they are concerned about.

Other researchers, like Ray Fowler, Tom Dooley, and Tom Adams,
to mention only a few, while not getting the extensive air time
on national television, certainly have done a remarkable job in
UFO research. But because they are careful and objective, and
will not make outlandish statements in public, they don't get
nearly as much attention or television time.

For instance, recently Kevin Randle wrote two books, after
Roswell, one called The Randle Report: UFOs in the 90's, and
another called The Face of the Visitors. Both of these books, in
my opinion, were just written for the sake of writing books --
just to keep his name out there, to keep him in the public eye.
Neither of the books further the quest of finding the answer to
the UFO phenomenon. In fact, in the case of The Face of the
Visitors, how can one give ratings to a case, when one has never
actually talked to the investigators who investigated the case?

In the case of Mr. Budd Hopkins, his latest book concerning the
Linda Cortile case, called Witnessed, is a farce. Many of Budd's
close friends cannot understand Budd's actions with this
particular book.

Yet it is what the public wants to see, what the public wants to
hear. Dramatic cases, regardless of whether they have any
foundation in reality, seem to sell well. The more informed and
serious people in the UFO field understand it for what it really
is.

Let me reassure, you, Mr. Friedman, that the media that you deal
with is not really buying your story 100 percent about the MJ-12
papers, even though they have you on their television shows.
They are interested in ratings. This was very dramatically
proven with the "autopsy video" purchased by the Fox Network. So
just because you are appearing on television, as is Kevin Randle
and Budd Hopkins, more than other major investigators, it does
not mean your work is more valuable, or more credible. Quite to
the contrary, the inflammatory statements you are making are in
fact detrimental to the field of UFO research and study, because
you make these statements without any proof whatsoever to back
them up.

Mr. Friedman, to show just how far someone will go to keep
themselves in the limelight, to appear on national programs on a
regular basis, I want to bring up someone that you may remember:
Mr. Leonard Stringfield. You and he were never good friends, of
course. I am sure that you did speak in passing at different
symposiums, but I knew Leonard very well, and considered him a
very good friend of mine. In fact, Leonard and I worked together
on the well-known Liberty, Kentucky case, of 1976. It came to my
attention, about six to eight years ago that you were going to
appear on the Unsolved Mysteries television program, regarding
the alleged Roswell crash. Obviously the producers had asked you
if you knew how to contact Mrs. "Pappy" Henderson. (Pappy, of
course, was allegedly the pilot that flew the bodies from
Roswell to Wright Patterson Air Force Base.) You, Mr. Friedman,
came to Leonard Stringfield, even though the two of you had
never actually done any research together, or were even
considered friends, and asked him to give you the telephone
number and address of Mrs. Henderson, because you knew this was
one of Leonard's confidential sources. When Leonard told you
that he could not give you that information, because she was a
confidential source that had asked that her personal contact
information be given out, you were extremely upset with him, as
he reported to me. In my opinion, what you were in fact doing
was attempting to get Leonard Stringfield to break a solemn
confidentiality agreement, solely to enhance your position wth
the producers of Unsolved Mysteries. Anyone who has been an
investigator in the UFO field knows that their credibility
concerning confidentiality is one of the biggest assets they
have. If a person cannot rely on coming to you in confidence,
you will not get much cooperation in respect to learning of UFO
encounters. Your credibility is your word. Yet you were asking
Mr. Stringfield, a seasoned investigator of, at that time,
almost 40 years, to give up his credibility for you, merely to
enhance your position with some television producers.

In terms of sound, objective, scientific analysis of UFOs, Mr.
Friedman, you, sir, could not even carry Mr. Stringfield's
briefcase.

I just have one more thing to say, regarding you and Leonard
Stringfield, that I want the readers here to know... And
remember, Mr. Friedman, this is not second-hand information.
Both of the incidents that I am speaking of here concerning you
and Leonard comes from firsthand knowledge.

Leonard, who passed away on December 18, 1994, was in a terminal
state before his passing. He was told by his doctors that he had
six months to a year left to live. He received a call from you,
shortly after that announcement by his doctors, in which you
requested all of his files. When he told you "no," you replied
something to the effect of "Well, there's no one there that
would have any need of them." When Leonard hung up the phone
from that conversation with you, he had a very strange look on
his face, and said, "This guy has got to be joking."

Only 36 hours later, Leonard Stringfield quietly passed away.
Thus, UFOlogy lost one of the greatest investigators in the
field. But how insensitive and rude can you be, Mr. Friedman, to
call someone who you know is terminally ill, pressing him for
his files? Do you realize the implication, to someone who has
recently learned he is dying? All you wanted his files for, was
to use them to impress other people at your lectures, as well as
the media. Something more to feed your enormous ego, Mr.
Friedman? It is common knowledge throughout the UFO community
that you have openly criticized Mr. Stringfield's work. Your
rudeness and insensitivity to a gentlemen of Mr. Stringfield's
stature is inexcusable.

I will close this open letter with the following remarks, Mr.
Friedman. In the introduction to your book, Top Secret Majestic,
you state the following:

"For almost 41 years I have been researching UFOs. I have
written two books, dozens of articles, spoken before hundreds of
live audiences, and have appeared on many more call-in shows on
television, as well as radio. I am what you might call a
personality, judging from the number of strangers who stop me on
the street when I am away from home on speaking tours."

Enough said.


Jerry Black

JB/gmj

A NOTE ABOUT JERRY BLACK:

Mr. Jerry Black has been researching and investigating UFOs in a
scientific and objective manner for the past 41 years. His
Internet website can be found at:

http://members.xoom.com/blackshole

Mr. Black invites your comments on the above. An e-mail address
has been established for him, and will be checked weekly by an
associate of his. Mr. Black can be e-mailed at:

      blackhole60@hotmail.com

He can still also be reached at the following address and phone
number:

Jerry Black





                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 22

                     Black's Update on Whitley Strieber

From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:10:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:50:49 -0400
Subject: Black's Update on Whitley Strieber


Jerry Black recently made an offer to Whitley Strieber. He got
no response. Jerry has asked that this update be sent to the
list. Thanks,  GJ


Update On Whitley Strieber

On January 4, 1999, I placed an extensive 4 1/2 month review of
the various books of Whitley Strieber [which concerned his
encounters with �The Visitors�] on the internet. This review
included his latest book, �Confirmation.�

In this report, I offered Mr. Strieber and his wife, Anne, the
opportunity to take a properly sponsored polygraph test. I had
agreed to not only bring the polygraph expert to them at their
home in San Antonio, Texas, but to pay for all the expenses
incurred for both polygraph tests, transportation and other
related expenses. I stated in this report that Mr. Whitley
Strieber would need to respond by February 4, 30-days from the
time it appeared on the internet.

When nothing was heard from Mr. Whitley Strieber within this
30-day period, I decided to also �priority-mail� a copy of this
report directly to his address to ensure that he received the
report. This report was mailed to Mr. Strieber on January 18,
and he should have received it on January 20.

As of writing this report on April 10, 1999, I have not received
any reply from Mr. Strieber concerning any willingness to take
this third-party sponsored polygraph test. As I have stated
earlier, all of Mr. Strieber�s previous polygraph tests that he
mentions in his books were either self-sponsored or given by
people who had an interest in his passing these tests.

I was trying to give Mr. Strieber the opportunity -if indeed his
account is a factual one- to take a properly sponsored polygraph
test which would go a long way in helping to support his claims
of encounters with the visitors.

My fairness and objectivity in giving these tests certainly
cannot be questioned. As of this date, I have offered polygraph
tests in four separate UFO-related cases. In two of those cases,
the Travis Walton abduction and the Casey County, Kentucky
Incident, those participants agreed to take the tests and all
parties passed the polygraph examinations that I administered to
them. In the Liberty, Kentucky abduction, the participants were
Mona Stafford, Elaine Thomas and Louise Smith. The test was
administered by Mr. James Young who, at that time, was the
president of The Polygraph Association of Kentucky. Likewise,
more recently, Travis Walton, Mike Rogers and Allen Dallas all
agreed to take polygraph tests that were offered to them, and
all three passed. In the early 90�s, I offered a polygraph test
-on two different occasions- to Ed Walters. On both occasions,
Mr. Walters has done just what Whitley Strieber has done by not
acknowledging my offer for a properly sponsored polygraph test.

Inasmuch as Mr. Strieber and his wife Anne have refused to
respond to my request for the polygraph test -and lacking any
evidence whatsoever to support his numerous claims of encounters
with visitors, it is my opinion that Mr. Whitley Strieber has
perpetrated a massive hoax on not only the UFO community, but
against the American people.

For someone with the writing skills of Mr. Strieber to
perpetrate a hoax of this magnitude is certainly unforgivable.
Because of Mr. Strieber�s experience as a well known
science-fiction writer, he has the ability to make his words
more realistic, more interesting and more believable.

Whitley Strieber has been called a �contactee� by Art Bell,
because of his alleged encounters with the visitors during the
middle and late 80�s. The contactee, because of his numerous
experiences, affords the UFO researcher an opportunity to set-up
motion detection equipment, cameras, tape recorders and other
instruments to try and document the incident on audiotape or
film. There is even the hope that staying overnight at the
alleged contactees home may result in a personal experience with
the alleged visitors. I am personally unaware of any case with
Mr. Strieber where any UFO researchers were able to obtain any
documentation or evidence to confirm the alleged encounters with
these visitors.

The reasons that no information is obtainable from any of these
contactees varies from case to case. In some instances, the
alleged contactee -while allowing the equipment to be placed in
his home for long periods of time- claims that the encounters
stopped because, in his opinion, the visitors [or
extraterrestrial beings] knew that the equipment was there. In
other cases, the subject would not allow investigators to set up
equipment - for one reason or another. In the case of Mr.
Strieber, he kept investigators at odds because of his belief
that investigators were harassing him. Whatever the reason may
be, the end result is the same: the UFO community has not been
able to obtain any useful information from alleged contactees
even though these people claim to have repeat experiences night
after night, sometimes for months on end.

It is my opinion that Whitley Strieber kept investigators at
odds because he was not having any real experiences, and
realized that if he were to allow investigators to stay at his
cabin on a repeat basis to set up the proper equipment to detect
these alleged visitors, there would be no results and his hoax
on the UFO community would be revealed.

Recently, in February of this year, Mr. Whitley Strieber
appeared on an NBC UFO special entitled �Confirmation,� which
was named after his latest book. From his appearance on this
program, we can certainly assume that he has changed his mind
about UFO abductees from his earlier position that he had taken
from the writing of his books �Communion� and �Transformation.�
It appears that Mr. Strieber�s opinions changed depending upon
which way the financial winds are blowing.

Mr. Whitley Strieber claims on the UFO/NBC special that he had
investigated over 200 cases of alleged abduction encounters. If
he had been reincarnated over 10-times, Whitley Strieber could
not have investigated over 200 cases of alien abduction. Most
researchers recognize that abduction claims take months to
research and investigate, and in some cases [as with the Casey
County, Kentucky case], it took years to investigate.In the NBC
special, we see Mr. Strieber walking with alleged abductee Jesse
Long. Strieber goes on to say that the Long case is one of the
better cases he had investigated. Mr. Long has claimed that he
had been abducted on many occasions, and has fathered at least
nine hybrid alien children.

I will now illustrate how dramatically Whitley Strieber has
changed his opinion about alien abductees from what you saw in
the NBC TV special �Confirmation,� and the way he felt back in
the late 80�s and early 90�s concerning UFO abduction cases. On
Sept. 21, 1988, Strieber was due to appear on a show �People Are
Talking,� appearing on KPIX Channel 5 in San Francisco. When
Strieber realized that there was to be another gentleman
appearing on the show from the CSICOP organization, he was
irate. Karen Stevens, the producer of the show, tried to calm
him down and explain to him that everything had been cleared
with his publisher and publicist in accordance with the
instructions they had given her, and there was no problem with
having the SCICOP member on the show with him. Nevertheless,
Strieber was still irate. He thought �this person will say I�m
crazy, that I�m nuts. I will not appear on this show...�

To make a long story short, Mr. Strieber eventually did appear
on the show with this gentleman, but refused to talk about or
promote his book, Transformation, which was the reason he was
there to begin with.

I would like everyone to pay very close attention to this next
statement: Whitley Strieber charged that the host of the show
was bound to misrepresent his experience by saying they were
�alien visitors,� which he never -at that time- claimed to know
if these visitors were extraterrestrial. Whitley Strieber went
on to say: �Those people who claim alien encounters are just as
crazy as CSICOP.�

For those who feel that Mr. Strieber was incorrectly quoted
because this information comes from a third party, I would like
to refer you to Mr. Strieber�s Communion Letter, from the Spring
Issue, Vol. 3, No. 1 [1991]. Whitley Strieber states [quote]:
�The so-called UFOlogist are probably the cruelest, nastiest and
craziest people I have ever encountered. Their interpretation of
�The Visitor� experience is rubbish from the beginning to end.
The �abduction reports� they generate are not real, they are
artifacts of hypnosis and cultural conditioning.

I would now like to address some of the comments I have made
concerning Mr. Whitley Strieber. I cannot believe the arrogant,
egotistical attitude by Mr. Strieber in not wanting to appear on
the television show in 1988 with the CSICOP member. Most
abductees and UFO investigators understand that when they go
public, they are subject to criticism. The majority of
television and radio talk shows want to have a participant from
both sides of the argument. For Mr. Whitley Strieber to expect
that he should be the only one on the show and not want to talk
about his book if he�s not, is totally unacceptable.

To show that Mr. Whitley Strieber has not changed that attitude
since 1988, about six-months ago he was heard on a radio talk
show [hosted by a lady]. About 40-minutes into the program, Mr.
Strieber was asked by the host of the show if he had evidence to
support his numerous claims of encounters with �The Visitors.�
Immediately, Mr. Strieber replied: �I sense hostility,� and he
walked off the show.

So we can see that Mr. Strieber�s arrogant, egotistical attitude
continues to this day.

For those people who have written Mr. Strieber during the past
12 or 13-years to praise him for his books concerning his
encounters with �The Visitors,� and especially to those people
who have wrote Mr. Strieber concerning abductions they have felt
that they have had, I would like to just remind you that through
1988 through 1991 [and who knows how much longer], Mr. Strieber
has professed to �not believe� in alien abductions, and as I
pointed out before that he stated in his own journal, the
abductions reports are �not real, but the artifacts of cultural
conditioning.�

It is my opinion that to this day, Mr. Strieber does not believe
anyone has ever had an abduction experience, even though on
December 12, 1998, Mr. Whitley Strieber announced: �I am making
at this point a fundamental change in what I have said for
years. I have always held in question whether or not The
Visitors are real. That is over for me. They are real, and until
proven otherwise, I think that we should assume they are
aliens.�

Now Mr. Strieber embraces all those who had abduction
experiences, where in the past, he has always criticized you or
said you were crazy. But let�s not be misled. Mr. Whitley
Strieber�s change of heart is not because he now believes your
experiences, it�s because it is financially productive for him
to go with the alien abduction scenario, which is where the
money is in UFO research and UFO books.

It is my opinion that Mr. Strieber, to this day, has never had a
UFO experience, has never had any meetings with �The Visitors,�
and more importantly, does not believe in alien abductions.

For those hundreds of people out there who truly feel they�ve
had abduction experiences, they know that when they go public,
they will be facing ridicule. They know when they appear on
radio or TV shows that there will be someone sitting across from
them who is going to question everything they have to say. But
when they go public with the abduction scenario, they do so with
that understanding. They take the criticism and keep responding
that their experience was a very real experience. The reason why
Mr. Whitley Strieber gets so upset and walks off a radio or TV
show when challenged by statements or people on the same
program, is because he is embarrassed. He cannot feel the
feeling that true abductees feel. That feeling of being alone
and not being able to prove their situation, of being in awe of
the experience they have had... of wanting people to believe and
understand. Mr. Strieber, because he has never had a true
experience with visitors or extraterrestrial beings, does not
have that feeling. So the only feeling he can put out there is a
feeling of embarrassment. And when a person gets embarrassed
they get upset, they don�t want to talk, they don�t want to
speak to anyone. That�s another indication that Mr. Whitley
Strieber�s claims of alien contact are not true.

I would like to refer you to Mr. Strieber�s own website,
concerning information placed there recently regarding the
February 17th special on NBC entitled �Confirmation.� Mr.
Strieber has made it a point to let everyone know that it was
�his� UFO special. He has also repeatedly stated that this was
the �first UFO special� on the three major networks in 20-years.
While that was not a major point, it is certainly an incorrect
point. In the last 20-years, there have been eight to ten UFO
specials on the three major networks - ABC, NBC and CBS. The
most recent one I recall was �Intruders,� which was named after
Budd Hopkins� book [I believe on the same NBC network]. So why
Mr. Whitley Strieber continues to say that this is the first UFO
special in 20-years on any of the three major networks, I do not
know.

Further, I feel that Mr. Whitley Strieber thinks that because
the networks came to him to do this special, which was named
after his latest book [to which he also was one of the executive
producers], that this helps to validate his experiences and all
the books he had written during the past twelve years. That is
certainly an untrue statement, as everyone should know, the
networks are concerned with a known name, and how well that
known name will sell their program. They have no interest in
whether Mr. Whitley Strieber�s story is a true story or an
untrue story.

It is, in reality, the interest of the general public in the
subject of UFOs that makes the networks interested in producing
these UFO specials.

Most UFO researchers, except for some of the bigger names that
appear on national TV, are certainly aware that it is not the
investigator which causes people to listen, it is the UFO
subject itself. A few months after I had appeared on a local
radio talk show hosted by Alan Browning, I received a call from
him around midnight. It turns out that Alan and his wife Sue
were on vacation, and another gentleman was doing their show.
The show was an open-forum show, and was not receiving any
calls. Alan asked me if I would, at that late time of the
evening, mind doing the last 3-hours of the show talking about
UFOs, to help this young gentleman out. After the first
15-minutes on the show, we went to a commercial. The young
gentleman came back on the phone and excitedly said: �All the
lines are lit! All the lines are lit! I really appreciate this,
you�ve saved the show!�

I replied to the gentleman that I hadn�t saved the show, but
rather, UFO subject is what saved the show.

Most of my friends and UFO researchers who watched the
Confirmation program on the NBC network, did not feel that it
was a very good show over-all. In fact, for the first ninety
minutes, many of my friends and UFO researchers commented that
it was �same old, same old.� The only thing that seemed to
impress my friends was the final half-hour of the sighting in
northern Ohio of many police officers concerning a UFO sighted
for over 6-hours. There were tape recordings of communication
between the dispatchers and police officers on this program.
Kenny Young, the gentleman who did the investigation of the
case, does a tremendous job in UFO research. So for the most
part, most of my friends were not impressed with the UFO special
Confirmation. I thought the dramatization of the alleged implant
was totally unnecessary, but of course I have to take into
account that Mr. Whitley Strieber was the executive producer.
The shots of Mr. Strieber, looking through the window as the
operation was performed, was certainly inappropriate
dramatization.

Mr. Strieber�s statement on the confirmation special about
investigating 200 abduction cases and also the comments in his
journal on his website about being a UFO investigator are
totally ludicrous. Mr. Strieber would not know how to
investigate a UFO case, period.

This is certainly dramatized by the fact that he took his own
polygraph test himself, which is not acceptable within the UFO
community as being a valid test. So any claims Mr. Strieber may
make as far as being a UFO investigator, I find totally
ridiculous.

Ironically, there are remarkable similarities between the Ed
Walters/Gulf Breeze case and the Whitley Strieber case. Most
objective and scientific investigators have correctly concluded
that the Ed Walters/Gulf Breeze case is a hoax. Only a few
steadfast MUFON investigators in Gulf Breeze and Bruce Maccabbee
feel there is any validity to that case. With that in mind, I
would like to mention some similarities between the two
gentleman concerning their claims of UFO abduction.

a.) Both Ed Walters and Whitley Strieber have tried to use other
people�s experiences to validate their own cases. I cannot say
enough times that each case is evaluated on its own merits. No
case can be evaluated based upon a sighting by another person at
different times or locations. It is not acceptable in true
scientific UFO research.

b.)Both gentleman have used deceitful wording or statements to
imply to their readers that their case is valid. Mr. Ed Walters
stopped a PSE report [voice-stress analysis] in mid-sentence to
make it appear that he passed when he did not. One incident with
Mr. Whitley Strieber involves �knocks on the roof� to which he
implied they had to be extraterrestrial [which they do not have
to be].

c.) Ed Walters and Mr. Whitley Strieber both sponsored and took
their own polygraph tests with no third-party involved. Both
attempted to use these invalid polygraph tests to validate their
alleged experiences.

d.) Both gentleman then refused my [and in the case of Ed
Walters, other people�s] request to take a properly-sponsored
third-party polygraph test.

e.) Both gentlemen have shown embarrassment when confronted in
the public, on the radio and TV about their alleged experiences,
even to the point of hostility. Mr. Ed Walters, while being
challenged by Phillip Klass on the Oprah Winfrey show, became
upset when Mr. Klass said he Walters was abducted. Ed Walters
then said on national TV: �I never said I was abducted.� Yet in
his book on the Gulf Breeze sightings, which had been out for a
long period of time, Mr. Ed Walters wrote that he had been
abducted, and ironically enough wrote a book later concerning
the numerous other abductions that had occurred to him during
that time. Mr. Whitley Strieber has become embarrassed and irate
on radio and TV shows whether because of having someone
appearing on the program with him or because of a very simple
question about his experiences, so he has shown hostility and
embarrassment on many different occasions.

Finally, the biggest similarity between the Mr. Ed Walters� case
and Mr. Whitley Strieber�s claims of UFO experiences is, in my
firm opinion after more than 4 years of research on the Ed
Walters/Gulf Breeze sightings, and more than a 4 month review of
Mr. Whitley Strieber�s books, I have concluded -without
question- that both gentlemen have perpetrated a massive hoax on
the UFO community and the American People.

In the next year, Mr. Strieber may get the opportunity to appear
on another UFO special. A few months ago I was talking with a
television producer who was thinking about doing a program on
UFO hoaxes. Because of the recent program on the FOX network
concerning UFO hoaxes, this gentleman said he would have to hold
off on starting his production for the special on UFO hoaxes.
The name of the program was going to be �Strange Phenomenon�s
Biggest Hoaxes.� I had informed him at that time about the Ed
Walters� case and, more recently, about the Whitley Strieber
case. He seemed excited and interested in both cases, because
they were both well-known national figures. So it looks like,
Mr. Whitley Strieber, down the road sometime you may be given
the opportunity to appear on this special and defend your case,
as will Ed Walters. He has not yet started to work on the pilot,
but when he does, he said he will let me know. This may take
between 12 and 18-months, and of course he is very excited and
hoping the program will be accepted.

In closing, Mr. Whitley Strieber, you have complained in the
past how the American media does not review your books. I will
promise you this: I will continue to review each and every book
that you write concerning the UFO phenomena. I will place that
report on the internet as I have done with my previous reports.
It is my sincere hope that someday you will stop writing these
books about UFOs.

Finally, Mr. Strieber, you would have the American public
believe that you have changed your writing over the past decade
from fiction to non-fiction, sharing with them your numerous
experiences with �The Visitors.� However, in reality, we know
that you have continued your illustrious career to this day as
strictly a science-fiction writer.

         A NOTE ABOUT JERRY BLACK

Mr. Jerry Black has been researching and investigating UFOs in a
scientific and objective manner for the past 39 years. He spent
four and a half years re-investigating the Ed Walters/Gulf
Breeze case, with experienced investigators Rex Salisberry,
Barbara Becker, and Zan Overall.

Mr. Black invites your comments on the above. He can be reached
at the following address and phone number:






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 22

                      Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?

From: Sue Lawrence <NevadaFighter@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:45:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:35:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?


>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@virgin.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Tim Edwards 'Sligo Footage'?
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:06:03 +0100







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   Apr > Apr 22

                 Jaime Gesundt's open letter to Jerry Black

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:01:21 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:53:06 -0400
Subject: Jaime Gesundt's open letter to Jerry Black


I have read your open letters to Stan Friedman and Whitley
Strieber and have the following comments with which to
completely disprove your allegations that their work is not
supported.

We at Gesundt's Freshly Made's Canal Street Gripple Works can
prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you, Sir, are mistaken
about a number of issues. First among these is that it is a
commonly known fact that Strieber and Friedman are really
Streiber and Freidman. So right off the bench, Sir, you cannot
even speel correctly.... spell correctly. Now how can this be?
That Strieber is Streiber and Friedman is Freidman whilst
speeling their names Friedman and Strieber in their books?
Huh?

Because Budd Hopkins is really Bud Hopkins and Carol Rainey is
really Carrol Rainy. And Carl Sagan is really Lamont Cranston.
Having said that, how is is that your "Old Boy Network" spelled
these names," Bob, Carol, Ted and Alice," the last of whom
doesn't even live here any more?

Second and even more important than your lack of attention to
the speeling..... spelling... of the names of these people in
the old boy netweork is the fact that you have not even included
the names of two of the youngest of the old boys in the network?
Huh?

This omission is a certain sign that you haven't the faintest
notion of what you are talking about! I refer to the great
Fromage and the greater still Gesundt! Hah! Caught you in a
gruesome little kettle of horse hockey, eh?

But wait, there's more! You said:

>well. Of course, the "Old Boys' Club" consists of Walt Andrus,
>Bruce Maccabee, Budd Hopkins, Don Berliner, and yourself, Mr.
>Friedman. There are possibly a few others that I could mention.
>Obviously, none of you gentlemen are going to have anything
>critical to say about the other. This has been going on for
>years.

We give you credit for the recognition that there are more of us
than you mentioned in your abominatory and inflamatory
intoberation delivered in a most insigredious manner. Indeed
there are more!

Bud Hoppkins is not old, neither is Gesundt, Strieble or
Fromage. Not even Andy Walrus or that guy with the polaroids in
Florida! These are young men. You fail to mention this in your
so called post, Sir.

You don't drink, do you, Sir?

You make one statement which we at the Gripple Works must admit
is both revealing as well as quite convincing. So we give this
one to you, however grudgingly.... you said...

>If my own father (God rest his soul) was a UFO investigator, and
>had investigated the Gulf Breeze case, doing as poor a job as
>Mr. Maccabee has done, I would be just as inclined to question
>the veracity of his investigation.

We have it on good authority that your paternal parent (may he
rest in peace) is _not_ Bruce Maccabee and Mr. Maccabee isn't
even dead yet... Hah, yet again, Black! We spoke with Bruce
recently about a great deal of money he owes us for Gripple and
for Gripple Dripple's most infamous controversial products, our
anatomically correct blow up dolls. Now what do you have to say
to refute that, Mr. Back? Huh?

We could go on a whole lot more than you, however we recognize,
in our own unique and inebriatory way, that to say any more than
we've just said would place us in the same position as you've
placed yourself in by your Streiber and Freidman bull set! That
specifically, to say more than this after having said so little
already, would make us look more like you must appear to us
after we read more of your nothing which you wrote than we just
said with a lot less bandwidth!

If you cannot fathom this, may we suggest a half gallon of
Gripple followed by a half gallon of Gripple Dripple? Then call
us in the morning.

Not!

Dr. Dumby B. Dimbulb,

Director of Excretorial Balther (Blather), Canal Street UFO
Gripple Plant Number Three. Unlike you, Sir, we will sell no
opine, until it's ready!







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   Apr > Apr 22

                              Re: Author query?

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 99 18:11:18 PDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:42:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Author query?



>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:57:54 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>

>>>From: Paul B. Thompson - ParaScope <MrApol@aol.com>
>>>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:23:39 EDT
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>Subject: Re: Re: Author query?

>>>No, Philip Klass, the aviation writer and UFO skeptic, is not the
>>>same man as William Tenn, a mathematics professor who wrote
>>>science fiction under the pseudohym, 'Philip Klass'.

I think somebody's confused here, and not just about the
spelling of "pseudonym."  Philip J. Klass, aviation journalist
and UFO debunker, is not to be confused with Philip Klass, who
wrote science fiction under the pseudonym William Tenn.

Jerry







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   Apr > Apr 22

                     Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:04:36 +0200 (MET DST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:51:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?


>From: Alfredo Lissoni <alisson@tin.it>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Sightings In Islamic Countries?
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:16:18 +0200

>Hi list, I'm searching for UFO sightings in Islamic ountries.

>Can you help me, please?



How about the 1976 incident above Teheran for starters. It can
be found in Timothy Good's book "Beyond Top Secret".

            __________________________________________
           /    Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes    \
                      Henny van der Pluijm
                      hvdp@worldonline.nl

                       Technology Pages
                http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp





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   Apr > Apr 23

                     Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:03:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:21:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?


>From: Alfredo Lissoni <alisson@tin.it>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Sightings In Islamic Countries?
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:16:18 +0200

>Hi list, I'm searching for UFO sightings in Islamic ountries.

>Can you help me, please?

>Thanks for all,

>Alfredo Lissoni (alisson@tin.it),
>Secretary of National UFO Center - Italy

- - - - -

Dear Alfredo:

Please contact me directly at:

<larryhat@jps.net>

I have at least 240 UFO sightings listed for what I consider
Islamic countries worldwide. These account for 1.38% of my
entire database of (today) 17,427 listings.

38 are from Asia/Pacific nations, Afghanistan, Pakistan,
Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei ..

About 135 are from Northern Africa and the Sahara.

Azerbaijan, formerly in the USSR has 3.

I count 62 for the Middle East, not counting any in Israel.

One meaningless statistica! The mean average Longitude for these
widely scattered reports is 28:20 East .. the mean Latitude is
exactly 28:00 N.  You heard that here first.

Most of the North African accounts come via colonists or
settlers with European backgrounds.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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   Apr > Apr 23

                    Earth Changes TV/Breaking News - Mars

From: Mitch Battros <earthcng@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:44:10 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:06:52 -0400
Subject: Earth Changes TV/Breaking News - Mars


A close encounter with Mars...04/22/99

(NASA) Go outside about 2 hours after sunset and look toward the
East. That brilliant red star you see just above the horizon is
Mars, and it's headed our way. There's nothing to worry about.
Mars won't come any closer to Earth than about 54 million miles,
but this week and next Mars will be brighter and nearer to Earth
than at any time since 1990. It's a great opportunity for
amateurs to see details on the red planet through a small
telescope or to simply view Mars with the naked eye.

On April 24, Mars reaches "opposition," which means that it
passes through a point in its orbit that is directly opposite
the sun as seen from Earth. At opposition Mars rises near sunset
and is visible all night from most latitudes. Shining at
magnitude -1.6, it will appear to be one of the brightest stars
in the sky on Saturday night. In fact, it will be as bright as
Sirius and second only to Venus in brilliance.

"This is a great time to view Mars with the naked eye," says Dr.
John Horack, a NASA astronomer. "By mid- to late-June the planet
will be a full magnitude dimmer, but for the next few weeks it
will be spectacular."

To find Mars simply go outside any night for the next couple of
weeks about an hour or two after sunset. Reddish colored Mars
should be easy to spot 20 to 25 degrees above the horizon in the
east-southeast. Later in the evening, near midnight, Mars can be
seen due South about 45 degrees above the horizon from
mid-latitude sites in the northern hemisphere.

Mitch Battros
Producer - Earth Changes TV
web site:





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   Apr > Apr 23

                Re: Jerry Black's Update on Whitley Strieber

From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:14:33 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:06:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Jerry Black's Update on Whitley Strieber


To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM>

At 09:57 PM 4/22/99 -0700, Steve Wingate wrote:

>>Inasmuch as Mr. Strieber and his wife Anne have refused to
>>respond to my request for the polygraph test -and lacking any
>>evidence whatsoever to support his numerous claims of encounters
>>with visitors, it is my opinion that Mr. Whitley Strieber has
>>perpetrated a massive hoax on not only the UFO community, but
>>against the American people.

>This is silly. And do you believe that everyone who does not
>agree to take your test is a liar and a hoax?

Now, _here_ is really silly -

"I would like everyone to pay very close attention to this next
statement: Whitley Strieber charged that the host of the show
was bound to misrepresent his experience by saying they were
�alien visitors,� which he never -at that time- claimed to know
if these visitors were extraterrestrial. Whitley Strieber went
on to say: {�Those people who claim alien encounters are just as
crazy as CSICOP.�}  (bracketed emphasis mine - Don)

Strieber can't make up his mind. He's vague, then blows off
ufology in a huff several years back, leaves his abduction
support groups hanging and splits. He shows back up, with new
books in hand, changes his mind about his experiences, says
they're real. I believe Jerry Black makes good points in his
post. Strieber is entirely free to ignore Black, but why not
take up his challenge if he doesn't have anything to hide?
Travis Walton took up the challenge with Black and passed, so
obviously he didn't have any reason to hide anything.

Because of his writing, Strieber has put himself very much into
the public eye, including his UFO production on TV just
recently. Does this mean that no one can ask for proof of his
claims without being considered  "silly"? 200 cases?! Strieber
has a history of throwing hissy fits when asked to provide proof
of his abduction claims. Self-administered polygraph tests don't
prove the veracity of his claims. If these abduction events
happenned to _me_, you can darn sure bet I would ask for
independent tests, even invite people in with equipment to
monitor my living environment to get some sort of proof. Beyond
proving it to others, first I'd want to prove it to myself.

Asking for proof is not a bad thing, Steve. Travis Walton didn't
back down from Phil Klass one bit. He wrote a substantial list
of questions for Klass to respond to and Klass couldn't make his
claim(s) that Travis had made up the whole thing to get out of
the logging contract BS, stick.

Don



---






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   Apr > Apr 23

                     Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:27:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:34:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?


>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:04:36 +0200 (MET DST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?

>>From: Alfredo Lissoni <alisson@tin.it>
>>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Sightings In Islamic Countries?
>>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:16:18 +0200

>>Hi list, I'm searching for UFO sightings in Islamic ountries.

>>Can you help me, please?

>How about the 1976 incident above Teheran for starters. It can
>be found in Timothy Good's book "Beyond Top Secret".


Hi,

My colleague Peter Hough and I investigated an extraordinary
abduction that involved a university professor.

This occurred the weekend of the famous Tehran jet chase.

The witnesses were literally abducted by a flying carpet. I
spent much time with the witness and he appeared sincere.

The case is written up in most detail, recently accessible, in a
chapter of Peter Hough's book - The Truth About Alien Abductions
- published in the UK by Cassell and in the US by Sterling
(l998).

Jenny Randles





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   Apr > Apr 23

                Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'

From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:58:38 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:37:28 -0400
Subject: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'


An excerpt from the book, 'Space Aliens from the Pentagon'
Subtitle - Flying Saucers Are Man-Made Machines
Author - William R. Lyne, copyright 1993, 1995
Revised and expanded second edition
ISBN 0-9637467-1-5
$17.95
William R. Lyne
Creatopia Productions
Lamy, New Mexico 87540
(505) 466-3022


*** begin excerpt ***

                              SYNOPSIS OF FACTS

My book is related to the following list of little-known,
officially suppressed or publically unknown facts:

1. An American citizen (naturalized), Nikola Tesla (an athiest
and a capitalist), invented the flying saucer, before 1900, and
reduced it to practice by 1915.

2. The American government helped the Nazis steal the invention
from Tesla (who hated the Nazis),and by 1937, the Nazis were
secretly developing it at Los Alamos, New Mexico (then called
the "p2" project), under the direction of the Baron Wernher von
Braun, who also collaborated in rocket research with Dr. Robert
Goddard at Roswell, funded by the American Rocket Society (The
Smithsonian Institution and the Guggenheim Foundation).

3. The American government later helped Wernher von Braun, the
Nazis, and the Trilateral Commission and Illuminati (who still
retain control) remove the "KT-p2" Projekt ("KT" is for
"Kreisel-Teller" [German, for "Gyrating Plate"], and "p2" is the
electronic designation for an "oscillating electromagnetic
dipole") to Germany, after 1937.

4. The Nazis, who attempted to develop and use the flying saucer
during the war (called "Foo-Fighters" by us, "Fireballs" and
"Flying Turtles" by them), were unsuccessful in developing
appropriate weapons for it until too late, and finally traded it
back to us during the stalemate of 1945, in exchange for amnesty
for numerous persons (including many war criminals), and for
other concessions and guarantees (many of which are too numerous
or incredible to mention here).

5. The U.S. government (N.S.A., O.S.I.), on behalf of the
Trilateral Commission, continues with and enforces a
Nazi-originated "Big Lie" program, in which it perpetuates the
hoax that flying saucers ("U.F.O.s") are: (a) Extraterrestrial
in origin; (b) psychological phenomena ("collective
consciousness archetypal images", ala C. G. Jung); (c) swamp
gas; (d) "free-floating plasmas"; (e) piezo-electric effects;
(f) ball-lightning; (g) other natural phenomena; (h) unknown
life forms; (i) hallucinations; (j) non-existent; (k)hoaxes by
attention-seekers; (l)the products of hysteria, insanity, etc.,
etc.

6. The German navy surrounded the U.S. with 24 U-boats, armed
with (V-6?) I.C.B.M.s, having celestial guidance systems, and
armed with neutron bomb warheads, trained on key American cities
and centers, in a 1945 stalemate; German Admiral Karl Doenitz
negotiated a secret truce and amnesty agreement with American
authorities, under which he was required to order all 24 U-boats
"...scuttled, with all hands on board...", under the agreement,
pursuant to which Nazi skippers opened the hatches and the subs
and all men on board went to the bottom. Under Operation
Paperclip, all Nazi scientific research materials, most of their
important scientists, and the "KT-p2 Projekt" technology, were
transferred to the U.S. and to the Trilateral Commission
corporations, thus attempting to insure that the Illuminati
would retain control of the materials. Certain unusual security
procedures were initiated to insure this, including the
"sacrificing" of some major German scientists to the Soviets, to
plant misinformation, and to insure that the hoax was
successful.

7. During the war, German scientists bypassed development of the
"atom bomb", and built and tested the neutron bomb. German field
marshall Erwin Rommel and the Afrika Korps were originally sent
to North Africa to test the neutron bomb, as well as Tesla's
"death ray" (which freezes whole armies); this technology was
acquired by American corporations, held chiefly by David
Rockefeller, and was later sold in part back to the U.S.
government and tested in the '60s, and the same technology was
again sold to the U.S. government again in the '70s and '80s, as
"star wars" technology.

8. Over 15,000 German military, technical, intelligence, and
support personnel were brought to America (mostly New
Mexico-Manzano Base, Sandia Base, White Sands Missile Range,
Alamogordo, Holloman A.F.B., Los Alamos, etc.) with the "KT-p2"
project, in Sept., 1945, at which time, under Operation Paper
Clip, Wernher von Braun became Director of Research, U.S. Army
Ordnance, Ft. Bliss, Texas; he and his 116 top rocket scientists
commenced rocket (and flying saucer) R.& D. at nearby White
Sands Missile Range, and Alamogordo.

9. Howard Hughes "Glomar Explorer" was built to retrieve the 24
scuttled German U-Boats, before terrorists or unfriendly
governments found and retrieved the subs, missiles, bombs, and
related technology, and because the WW II German U-boats were
powered by a type of magnetic-electric generator (invented by an
American named Dort of Virginia) which was superior to nuclear
power. Further details about the German 'ship', the Graf
Zeppelin are included in this book; Adolf and Eva (Braun) Hitler
were daringly rescued from the Berlin Bunker by flying saucer,
piloted by test pilot Hanna Reitsch and long distance flight
expert Hans Ultich Rudel. The couple were later protected by the
secret amnesty agreement, live their remaining lives under
protection of the N.A.T.O. alliance, in Kassel, Germany,
ironically the home of an international monument to the
Holocaust. The "Hitlers" even visited America on the invitation
of L.B.J. to visit "Hemisfair", the World's fair at San Antonio,
Texas, in 1967.

10. Part of the original deceit was under way at
Wright-Patterson A.F.B., Ohio, even before the German surrender;
Edgar Cayce was already employed as a technical writer, to
revise, adapt, and resume the propaganda work pioneered by Hans
Hoerbiger, Hitler's personal guru and astrologer, the official
"father of parapsycho1ogy", and designer of the Nazi "Big Lie"
system, in which the public's credibility 'window' is wallowed
into a giant hole, allowing the indiscriminate acceptance if
faceless authority and whatever the government says; the U.S.
government even hired an Ohio naval law professor (and genius)
to revise and popularize "Astara" ("Ostara" to Hitler), the Nazi
religion based on the Bonpas (Tibetan black magic) religion,
imported from Tibet to Germany by general Karl Haushofer, an
ordained Bonpas priest, as the basis for the S.S., financed and
setup on instructions of the British-American CFR, in 1919; the
S.S. Bonpas worshipped "Kali Ma" ("Bloody Mother"). This cult
founded the ancient Thugee cult of India, and was the basis for
the Society of Assassins; the concepts of this wierd religion
related to the mass extermination of people, through many means,
including asssinations, exterminations, and war; and the basis
for all 20th century totalitarian movements.

11. Most forms of mass communication are primarily controlled or
produced by the Illuminati, through the secret agencies of our
government, to brain wash the public, in the most monumental
hoax in history, to socio-economically control the world, and to
perpetuate lies designed to obscure the flying saucer's man-made
origin and use (as well as to steal and conceal or
monolithically control all other advanced technology); the
government hires consultants, contract script writers, and teams
of Ph.D.s, to create and disseminate "Big Lie" propaganda, in
countless pulp magazines and newspapers, and finances and
produces books and movies of the "Close Encounters of the Third
Kind" ilk, to perpetuate the "extraterrestrial" myth; the
government controls and manipulates the press, hires lecturers,
and organizes and funds UFO groups; the government stages
"abductions", using actors, drugs, and sets; "Operation Blue
Book" was set up at Wright-Patterson A.F.B. to retrieve leaked
information and plug leaks, disseminate misinformation, falsely
represent "expert, objective, scientific opinion", and to ferret
out 'problem people'; mystical organizations (such as A.R.E.-
"Association for Research and Enlightenment"- part of the Edgar
Cayce Foundation, of Virginia Beach, Virginia [conveniently
close to the C.I.A. headquarters])- are created for the same
purposes, and set the stage for the type of mass psychological
control of the public required for totalitarian control by
mystical cults, such as "Communism", "Naziism", "Synergy", or
"psychic" cults.

12. Flying saucers operate on basic, simple, sound (but very
carefully obscured) scientific electrical and physical
principles, known for over 100 years; Sir George Clerk Maxwell's
famous equations were 'edited' to remove certain information
from 'unclassified' access, and all public sources were
thoroughly scoured by the F.B.I. in 1942; the flying saucer uses
the electromagnetic interraction (which is on a magnitude of
"10/40 (10 to the 40th power) x 2" times greater than the
gravitational interraction), to move huge saucers at fantastic
speeds in defiance to gravity and inertia, with almost no net
energy consumption; flying saucers can be powered by unlimited
electrical energy extracted from ordinary atmospheric air, based
on Tesla's ca. 1900 discoveries; (NOTE: this book tells how to
build your own flying saucer.)

13."E.S.P." and "psychic phenomena" movements (based on Hans
Hoerbiger's original Nazi "parapsychology") are orchestrated and
promoted by the N.S.A., as part of the continuation of the
original Nazi "Big Lie" program, to dupe and brain wash the
public, and to induce unquestioned faith rather than reason;
this clandestine manipulation by the government is an
unconstitutional abridgement of the U.S. Constitutional First
Amendment prohibition against the government's recognition or
promotion of an "establishment of religion" (i.e., generally, a
mystical belief system based on faith rather than reason).

14. As an underlying cause of the "Holocaust", a proposal was
made by the U.S. Government to the Treaty of Versaille
Committee, in 1919. In a document known as "Morgenthau's
Pastoral Policy", signed by president Woodrow Wilson (drafted by
his Illuminati advisor, Hans Morgenthau, Sr.) and presented at
Versaille. Under it, the U.S. attempted to make, as one of the
provisions of the German surrender, the extermination of all
Germans, as an "inherently warlike race", and the "reduction of
Germany to a pastureland". The document, examined by me in 1968,
was among the papers of former president Lyndon Baines Johnson,
now kept in the Sid W. Richardson Research Center, at U.T.,
Austin.

15. The "cattle mutilations" phenomenon is an ongoing program of
the C.I.A.'s Special Operations Division. 'Biological samples'
are removed by specially trained flying saucer crews, from
thousands of cattle grazing in remote areas, for analysis, to
measure radiation-caused auto-immune-deficiency and reproductive
sterilization effects, after the cattle have been subjected to
irradiation by "Death Ray" devices under development since the
60s. Since 1979, the saucers have bombarded members of the
public, under the MK-NAOMI progmm of the C.I.A., for purposes of
"population control" (i.e., extermination). Government
scientists use special surgical devices, standard blood
coagulents, and cryogenic technology, enhanced by microwave
equipment, to remove the cattle blood (and ears, lips, tongues,
mammary glands, genitalia, anuses, etc.); afterward, the
carcasses are returned and air-dropped from flying saucers, back
into their original pastures; the mysterious circumstances are
misconstrued by government-spread rumors of
"extra-terrestrials", attributed to "satanist cults" or other
cults created by the government, or "coyotes and other natural
predators", etc. (Of course, MAN is a "natural predator".) (For
more on this, see Chapter III: "I Meet a Government M.I.B. in
Santa Fe: Hollywood on the Take", and Chapter VIII:
"Sightings".)

16. The Antarctic "Ozone Hole", which U.S. government scientists
pretend to be at a loss to explain-yet blaming it on 'aerosol
sprays'-is probably the by-product of three nuclear missiles,
armed with hydrogen bomb warheads, which were launched from the
Antarctic by the U.S. military, on Aug.27, Aug.30, and Sept. 9,
1957. The warheads were detonated at a 300-mile altitude, to
create a reflective spherical layer of ionic particles
surrounding the earth, to bounce radar impulses between the
layer and the earth. The Strategic Air Command's global
"backscatter" radar system, operated from the North American Air
Defense (NORAD) command center deep beneath the earth at
Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado, thus became operational in 1957, in
time to verify that the Russians fired the rocket which launched
Sputnik.

17. The N.S.A. protracts a false "national seculity" veil, to
continue concealment of flying saucer technology, creating false
fears of 'rampant anarchy', 'chaos', and other exaggerations and
ruses, before N.S.A., committees, to justify continued secrecy,
and to continue to deny public access to, or to declassiiy the
technology. (If society isn't ready for it, how can THEY be?)

18. The true scientific principles of gravity have been
misrepresented, confused, and concealed by "Big Brother", even
in school books read by our children, just to conceal flying
saucer technology, to protect the energy cartels and the
mixed-economy socialist political power structure from losing
its illegitimate parasitic grip on us.

19. In 1897, Nikola Tesla, a patriotic naturalized U.S. citizen,
of Serbo-Croatian birth, discovered and published a new theory
of energy and gravity, called the "Dynamic Theory of Gravity",
which represented a unified field theory. Tesla's energy
equation, "C=E/R", and Tesla's application to the Swiss Patent
Office for his flying saucer patent, was made while Albert
Einstein was a second class patent clerk there. Einstein's work
was an Illuminati conspiracy to obliterate Tesla's discoveries,
so the Illuminati could control flying saucers.

20. The government's policy of looting and suppressing ideas
from independent scientists, inventors, and thinkers, on behalf
of the Trilateral Commission, is related to this process,
involving (1) stealing ideas from creative individuals; (2)
destroying those individuals' credibilities, to conceal the
sources and technology; (3) ruining the lives of those
individuals (even murdering them if necessary), and denying
compensation or credit; (4) exercising the option to suppress
the ideas under "national security laws", or giving the
discoveries to their corporate crook partners for exploitation;
and (5) abusing and misusing the judicial system to carry out
and enforce this illegitimate, criminal process.

21. I am either correct in what I say, or am entitled to a Nobel
Prize for new discoveries in gravitational theory and nuclear
physies. The former is most certainly true. Since Russia in fact
acquired the services of the top Nazi flying saucer scientist,
and the top rocket scientist, from the Peenemunde operation, in
1945, here is a strong possibility that the Russians were privy
to these secrets.

CONCLUSION

Some of you who have taken the time to read this letter, have
the means to verify what I say. Others, who are among the
guilty, will naturally be threatened. Others know me, and may
have even offered me a high government position, which I
refused. Some may shrug me off as a "harmless nut", while others
may seek to harm me even more. Those who know the truth, and
failed or refused to use their power to restrain the abusive
government, criminals, courts, and lawyers, are responsible for
causing me to say these things, and have inadvertently liberated
this truth, which is my means of self defense, an inalienable
natural right.

Bureaucrats naturally underestimate the power of the individual,
since they are collectivists who lack a concept of
individuality, operating under the delusion of "the
invincibility of the state". I may not have become angry enough
to publish this expose', if they had not continued to harass me.
However, what I say I HAD to say, and would have said it much
sooner had it not taken me so long to gain the opportunity
between harassments. Even though I am aware of the danger to me
and my family, and since there have already been several murder
attempts, any one of which could have succeeded, I say this
while there is still an opportunity to do so, and remove their
motive from the equation. Besides, it is really they who are
afraid of the truth.

This letter is not intended to advance or affect any pending
litigation. Those of the judiciary have already proclaimed their
prejudice against me, all my pleadings having fallen upon deaf
ears. This letter should not affect rights which have already
been predisposed in the anti-individual bigoted courts,
according to them.

This letter represents my civil disobedience, freedom of speech
and expression of political opinion, declaring the right to the
disposition of the products of my own creativity, and to protest
the hypocrisies of our government and courts, as a citizen, a
human being, an American, and a Citizen of the World.

Nothing in this book was procured in violation of any law,
including "national security laws"; our government officially
denies a national security interest in flying saucers, denies
their existence, and we are entitled to take our government at
its word, albeit unreliable and false.

Those who deny the existence of flying saucers, or who falsely
assume that they are extraterrestrial, are either the victims of
government/corporate-state fraud, are irrational, brainwashed
dupes, or are government liars. Those who make the most rational
assumption-that "flying saucers are man-made flying machines" -
will eventually be vindicated by history, since the truth will
be known sooner or later, and it is already very, very late.

I would have invented the flying saucer if it had not already
been invented, since the concept occurred to me when I was a boy
studying electricity. At age 15, I prepared for a career in
aerodynamics, until I witnessed a flying saucer in broad
daylight, in the company of seven other intelligent witnesses.
Believing that aerodynamics would be an obsolete field by the
time I finished college, I cancelled my plans. I would never
have expected the secrets still to be hidden over forty years
later, with aerodynamics still be a viable field, due to the
continued suppression. I had been building powered model flying
saucers for four years before my first close-up daylight
sighting in 1953. I knew that flying saucers were real, man-made
flying contraptions, powered by electricity. While saucers are
visually fantastic, with their brilliant electrical corona
discharges, emission of "metallic colors", and movement in rapid
bursts, changing directions instantaneously, there was nothing
which could not be explained by electronic and physical theory.
I could see concentric striations on a somewhat crudely spun
metal hull (probably a tungsten alloy), which was a crude, early
form of "stealth" radar evasion technology, which
"extraterrestrials" would have had no use for.

The spreading of confusion and lies shows something important to
hide, involving high priorities, and highly trained and
well-paid people. The patterns of this deceit reveals the
substance of hidden knowledge, extracted by a time-consuming
process. It is best not to believe anything until you have a
reason to believe it.

This chapter caps off over 17 years of overt judicial harassment
which ensued the moment George Bush took power at the CIA. Bush
is a pal with fellow Trilateralist-Republican, Robert O.
Anderson, the man who controls the North Slope of Alaska and the
HAARP project. Anderson would now probably disavow any
connection to ARCO, which he created. He now claims bankruptcy.
Chapter I can be thought of as a kind of "Revolutionary
Manifesto of Laissez Faire Capitalist Creatology"-(i.e., a
manifesto of a radical, new artistic and scientific religion,
based on the "Science of the Creative Process"). It is a
non-mystical, rational religion.

In 1979, I acquired a "Peiltochterkompass" (German, for
"polar-daughter-[i.e., "slave"] compass"), a crude, 1943 , WW
II-vintage, German navigational device (the earliest type of
celestial guidance system), which was interconnected to a
"master compass" (a gyrocompass oriented to the north pole). It
triggered bi-polar pairs of electrodes in the hull of the
"KT-p2". The flying saucer and its scientific principle, is the
world's greatest invention, which mankind has been denied the
benefits of for over fifty years, by the coercive monopolists,
through government harassment, murder, secrecy, misinformation,
hoax and other deceits.

It is now time to end this hoax upon the American people by
their own government, and to end corporate-socialism and
tax-slavery, and to return power to the individual. It is time
for creative mankind to remove this yoke from its neck, and to
move forward with a truly new world order of creative,
laissez-faire capitalist civilization, with a free flow of
beneficially creative ideas, associations, and products among
mankind, in a peaceful world, peopled by creative, free,
autonomous and self-sufficient individuals, whose bounty can
provide for all. We have nothing to lose except stupidity.

NOW LET IT BE KNOWN that those who are responsible for what I am
now saying, are supported by pillars of lies, and have set a
philosophical wrecking ball into motion, which will eventually
smash down their own foundations.

*** end excerpt ***



---

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson





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   Apr > Apr 23

                        (eS) Io, Mars, & 'Dark Life'

From: exoScience David Watanabe <davew@exosci.com>
Date: 23 Apr 1999 07:59:24 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:10:34 -0400
Subject: (eS) Io, Mars, & 'Dark Life'

exoScience - http://www.exosci.com/

Summer reading, perhaps?...

I noticed an interesting looking book on amazon.com called "Dark
Life: Martian Nanobacteria, Rock-Eating Cave Bugs, and Other
Extreme Organisms of Inner Earth and Outer Space".

"Readers take an adventure around the world--from Mexican
jungles to the satellites of Jupiter--in search of Dark Life,
mysterious subterranean creatures that may redefine the
conception of evolution."

Neat stuff! I'm certainly going to pick up a copy.  You can get
yours for cheap ($16.10 == 30% off) at the exoScience-approved
bookstore
(amazon.com):

http://exosci.com/books.cgi?0684841916


And some quick news from Mars...

Firstly, the main antenna on the Mars Global Surveyor has become
stuck. This comes only shortly after its mapping mission began:

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/press/ms990421.html

Secondly, there are firm plans to send a sundial to Mars on the
next mission, and then broadcast images of it in realtime on the
internet. Kind of silly, but if it keeps the kids happy...

http://www.msnbc.com/news/261858.asp

Finally, you can check out the beautiful new images of Io and
Jupiter taken by Hubble at:

http://exosci.com/news/153.html

Always open to book suggestions,
Dave Watanabe
davew@exosci.com

SUBSCRIBE / UNSUBSCRIBE @ http://exoscience.listbot.com/
______________________________________________________________________





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   Apr > Apr 23

                        Re: Jerry Black's Open Letter

From: Pat McCartney <ElPatricio@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 05:24:18 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:31:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Jerry Black's Open Letter


>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:04:47 -0500
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net>
>Subject: Black's Open Letter to Friedman

>As always, don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger, heh heh. Mr.
>Jerry Black has asked me to pass this along to the list, and to
>let you all know that an e-mail account has been established for
>him. (See bottom of this article)

>Thanks,

>Glenn

>The case which has been proven conclusively to be
>a hoax?

<snip some MUFON-baiting>

>Is this the MUFON that supports Budd Hopkins' book,
>Witnessed, the ridiculous story of ...

<snip some more invective>

>If I had a $100.00 bill for every time I heard the
>word "I" used, I could have built my wife
>and I a very expensive home. I say this only to
>demonstrate the  ego trips of the people involved
>in that conference.

I get the feeling that Jerry Black had some deeply held
hostility for researchers who do not share his own beliefs. His
obsession with other people's "ego" seems a clear case of
projection to this old psychology major. And just think, he
ripped into other people's ego-trips and only used the word "I"
six times!

This is one of the most petty, personally offensive "open
letters"

I've ever read. His point? I guess Stan, Kevin, Budd and Whitley
have wasted decades of their own time as well as Mr. Black's.

I hope that the subjects of his twisted analysis have the good
sense to ignore his demeaning caterwauling.

Regards,

Pat McCartney






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   Apr > Apr 24

                       Spielberg Abduction Miniseries

From: Stephen MILES Lewis <elfis@io.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:21:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 02:17:06 -0400
Subject: Spielberg Abduction Miniseries



Considering past discussions on Spielbergs original horror
concepts for E.T., thot my fellow listers would want to know
about this.

SMiles

-----

Move Over, Mulder, Here Comes Spielberg

Steven Spielberg's pulling a Mulder.

The filmmaker behind Close Encounters of the Third Kind and E.T.
is again tracking down little green men, executive producing a
massive $40 million, 20-hour miniseries about alien-abduction
for the Sci-Fi Channel.

Slated to be one of the biggest TV events ever, the project,
titled Taken, will chase UFOs from Roswell, New Mexico, in the
1940s up through Y2K, Daily Variety reports.

"Steven has always had an interest in this subject," says Barry
Diller, the chair of Sci-Fi Channel parent USA Networks, to the
trade. "This will be a big story with multiple characters,
protagonists and antagonists, and it'll span lots of decades."

No word yet on stars or a director, but Variety says Spielberg
will get things going this summer, hoping for a third quarter
showing next year.

The Sci-Fi Channel is planning on running Taken for two hours
per night over 10 consecutive days.

That makes the minseries one of the biggest TV events ever,
behind the 24-hour adaptation of James Michener's Centennial on
NBC in 1978. Herman Wouks' The Winds of War ran 18 hours on ABC
in 1983 and 1998's Emmy-winning From the Earth to the Moon





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   Apr > Apr 24

                     Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?

From: C D Conrad <chyren23@q-net.net.au>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:57:16 +0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 02:19:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?


>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:27:46 +0100

>My colleague Peter Hough and I investigated an extraordinary
>abduction that involved a university professor.

>The witnesses were literally abducted by a flying carpet. I
>spent much time with the witness and he appeared sincere.


Ah, yes. Very believable. I have a bridge for sale, Jenny, I
will await your first bid. <WINK>

C D Conrad







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                          Filer's Files #16 - 1999

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:22:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 02:25:35 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #16 - 1999


Filer's Files #16 -- 1999,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,   Mutual UFO Network Eastern Director,
April 23, 1999,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020

ASTRONAUTS SAW UFOs IN 1960s

On July 17, 1962, Major Robert White reported a UFO during his
fifty-eight-mile high flight of an X-15. Major White reported:
"I have no idea what it could be.  It was grayish in color and
about thirty to forty feet away." Then according to a Time
Magazine article, Major White exclaimed over the radio:  "There
ARE things out there!  There absolutely is!"  On May 11, 1962,
NASA pilot Joseph Walker said that one of his tasks was to
detect UFOs during his X-15 flights.  He had filmed five or six
UFOs during his record breaking fifty-mile-high flight in April
1962.  It was the second time he had filmed UFOs in flight.
During a lecture at the Second National Conference on the
Peaceful Uses of Space Research in Seattle, Joseph Walker  said:
"I don't feel like speculating about them.  All I know is what
appeared on the film which was developed after the flight!" =97
Editor's Note: To date none of those films has been released to
the public for viewing.  Thanks to Steve Wingate at
steve@linex.com

Bruce Maccabee writes when your listing astronaut sightings as
you did last week: "Don't forget Gemini 11, September 1966:
the only astronaut photo case for which NASA admits
"unidentified."

NEW JERSEY

BATSTO -- On April 22, 1999, I interviewed a local high school
teacher who had thirty minutes of missing time enroute to work.
She has a doctorate in a scientific field and is quite perplexed
by her experience.  She drives to school each morning from the
New Jersey shore through portions of the Wharton State Forest on
Route 542.  Some parts of the trip are in desolate areas of the
forest.  She reached a forested area near Batsto at 7:00 AM
driving at 55 mph without any problems.  She entered an area of
relatively denser forest and lost any memory of the next 45
minutes of her life.  The next eight miles of road is relatively
straight with few places to turn or become lost and is an easy
ten minute drive.  When she came up to the Route 206,
intersection, she realized something was wrong and looked at her
watch and it was now 7:45 AM.  A ten minute drive had
unexplainably taken 45 minutes.  She had at least 30 minutes of
missing time and she was late for work.  She contacted the State
Police to see if there had been any accidents, UFO reports and
the like along this stretch or road.  None had been reported
that morning.  The thirty minutes of missing time remains
unexplained.  I gave her a MUFON late pass for being late to
work.

OHIO

CLYDE -- Kenny Young reports that the Sandusky County Sheriff's
Office 'records department has published an account of a UFO
sighting.  Incident # 99002846 Incident location: Limerick Rd.
RT 19 Township Code: GRCK Grid Code: CLY Patrol Area: E Street:
Conner Drive.  Fremont, Disp Code: 003 Received Date: 4/15/99 at
16:01.  Additional Comments: The caller stated that last evening
around 9:30 PM when he was traveling home he saw three lights.
One was very bright and two were dim lights in the sky.  The
lights appeared at tree top level, and then disappeared.  He
believes he saw three UFOs.  Deputy C Dearth/7261 1 call on
record. - The Fremont News-Messenger newspaper, dated April 16,
1999 stated, Sheriff's Reports UFO SIGHTING: John Pasch, no age
or address listed, 9:30 PM.  Wednesday, on Limerick Road near
North Ohio 19, saw three lights in the sky about tree level, one
very bright and two dim.  They quickly disappeared. Believes he
saw three unidentified flying objects.  End of article.
Comment; This is yet another report from an ongoing string of
sightings that have perplexed Sandusky County.  Numerous UFOs
have been reported to law enforcement in this area south of Lake
Erie since March 11.  Thanks to Wendy Shuman and Kenny Young.
UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo/

CALIFORNIA

RIALTO -- Michael, a 44 year old envelope manufacturer had a UFO
sighting on April 19, 1999, from 8:10 to 8:12 PM. near San
Bernardino.  A friend also witnessed the sighting.  The UFO came
from the Los Angeles area and was headed in an eastern
direction.  It was extremely bright and was obviously different
from any aircraft.  It slowed down until it was almost directly
above us.  We could see that it had four bright hallowed lights.
The craft slowed and then completely stopped for over half a
minute.  We got a very good look at the UFO.  Then the lights
went dark on the craft, and it flashed two greenish blue lights.
At this time, two jet aircraft approached us on the flight path
to Ontario International Airport.  Afterwards, it shot these
very bright red beams (or thruster type) flashes of light in
which it repositioned.  The four areas that were dark were now
lit again and the UFO gained altitude and left in an upward, but
angled path, different from its arrival path.  I called the UFO
Reporting Center and two hours later they called me back to
confirm that someone in Lakewood, near Los Angeles also reported
a sighting then.  We are now believers of UFO's and it's either
ours.  Thanks to BUFOD and Ben Field:
http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk.

FLORIDA ALIEN ENTITY ENCOUNTER CONTINUED FROM LAST WEEK

K.t.  Frankovich, a well-qualified wild life expert had an
awesome encounter with an alien entity during May of 1992.  This
is the third installment of her testimony.  Last week, we told
you k.t. had been warned that there was danger in the Lime Grove
behind her home.  Walking two of her dogs she had heard the
chopping of wood deep in the Lime Grove.  Now she stood only
thirty feet from a strange entity.  Her aggressive black
Labrador and giant Schnauzer dogs were strangely docile and lay
with their heads on the ground at her side.  She studied the
entities entire body so not to forget anything. The dogs and
k.t. started to walk away from the strange six fingered and four
foot tall alien entity, just as if nothing had happened.  They
walked for about fifteen feet and she thought out loud, "What in
the hell was I looking at?"  The unidentified fur creature
hanging in the tree, particularly troubled her.  She was an
expert in animals, and could identify almost any with just a
glance, but she had no idea what was hanging from the branch.
She turned and returned quickly to the previous spot as both
dogs became excited and tugged on the leashes.  They seemed
menacing again and she realized they must have been intimidating
the entity.  K.t. and her dogs sat on the ground to show the
entity they were no threat to him.  She had often used this
deception with wild animals.  Looking around k.t. realized the
entity had disappeared.  Suddenly he darted out from behind a
tree holding the fur animal in a shiny metallic bag.  K.t.
jumped up with her mighty dogs and started running in hot
pursuit.  The entity was a magnificent specimen with powerful
muscular legs.  She said excitedly,  "Do you know how a gazelle
runs, he had a tremendous spring in his step!"  He jumped upward
and forward as he ran just like the gazelle, the speedy graceful
antelope of Africa.  He did not run like a human, but like the
swiftest deer.  His powerful muscles catapulted him into the air
as he ran almost playing with her.  He was more than an Olympic
athlete he was incredible.  He seemed to slow down so that the
dogs and k.t. could catch up.  They ran neck and neck a few rows
of trees apart.  As they ran she could hear inside her head the
words, "Biente-Biente." a friendly welcome to come hither in
Spanish." A friendly come here.  He almost seemed to fly through
the air as he bounced along.  I suggested, "The entity may have
been use to a much stronger gravity field."  He moved as our
astronauts jumped and ran on the moon.  Ahead was a densely
overgrown area with vines covering the lime trees.  He ran into
the natural tunnel.  She suddenly ran into a powerful wall of
stench.  She stopped and bent over  nauseated.  The foul odor
was a combination of sulfuric acid and formaldehyde.  It burned
her nostrils.  She thought, there must be a whole group in the
tunnel.  Was she outnumbered?  Was this a trap?  He had
deliberately let her catch up.  She felt danger, and knew her
best course of action was to get out of their fast.  She could
smell the anger and ran with her dogs for her life.  By the time
they ran home it was dark.  Both k.t. and her dogs were
exhausted.

The next morning, perhaps too inquisitive, she returned to lime
tree the entity had been cutting.  The big branches he had cut
off were gone.  She followed the route they had taken the night
before, but except for the missing branches, there was no sign
that anyone had ever been there.  Not even foot prints were
visible.  Thanks to Dave Taub and k.t.  Frankovich.  Her full
story is on their website at:
http://members.aol.com/KFrnkovich/index.html. Editors Note: Why
were aliens breaking branches of the growing lime trees.  They
must use them for something, possibly for food.  They appeared
particularly interested in the lime tree branches, that can be
grafted to grow on other trees.  They may have also been taking
limes, but they specifically wanted the branches.  On February
25, fourteen witnesses saw a UFO pickup a 1400 pound Elk in
Washington State.  In the past, we have also reported numerous
cattle mutilations and craft entering and leaving fishing
waters.  It is reasonable to assume they are foraging for food,
collecting building materials and conducting mining operations.
The small mouths infer the digestive system may be designed to
use mainly fluids.  Generally, when cattle mutilated bodies are
found their bodies are drained of blood and fluids and soft
tissue has been removed.  A chemical analysis of these elements
indicates that a human could maintain nourishment on this type
of diet.  One abductee I interviewed, was told the aliens mainly
eat a vegetarian diet, particularly grains.  Sulfuric acid and
formaldehyde odors at the tunnel like opening may indicate
fertilizers, preservatives or disinfectants.  Do we have a
chemist who might speculate on the reason for these odors?

UNITED KINGDOM

TAUNTON, SOMERSET - Adam Stokes reports that on April 14, 1999,
he saw a flying object that looked like a rocket ship.  It was
red, white and blue with a light on the bottom.  The craft moved
very slowly and disappeared about ten past nine.  Thanks to Adam
Stoke in Bishops Hull and ISUR . StokesAdam@hotmail.com 7
Richmond Park, Taunton

GLYNFACH MOUNTING, WALES -- Gordon Mullins reports that on April
14, 1999, he saw a large bright light was hovering over the
mounting then it disappeared and then came back again at 10:30
PM.  I shouted for my son as he had binoculars and could see it
better.   Aubrey Road, Glynfach Porth, South Wales,
finch-09.www-cache.demon.co.uk

GLENROTHES, SCOTLAND -- Dave Ledger reports that on March 30,
1999, in Fife, I was driving home around 9:00 PM, when I looked
high in the NE sky.  I saw a very bright orange light hovering,
slightly moving downwards.  I stopped the car and watched it for
about twenty seconds.  Gradually it burned out.  It looked like
the color of fire and it was very bright.  First I thought it to
be a planet, but it moved too fast.  I stopped the car and
opened the window but I could not hear any sound.  The
conditions at the time were clear sky, almost full moon and
fairly warm for this time of year.  Thanks to UFO Scotland
member, Lewis Burt for this sighting report.

FALKLAND HILL, SCOTLAND -- March 30, 1999, The first skywatch
was a complete washout due to the weather.  The second shoot
went well and we even managed to have a sighting around 9:00 PM,
whilst we were up on a hill.  I am not too sure what it was that
we saw, but both Jeannie and I got a good look at it through
binoculars.  We could see no signs of any night time navigation
lights whatsoever.  It was just a white glow traveling across
the sky, no lights, no noise.  We observed loads of air traffic
over towards Edinburgh airport, but these aircraft all displayed
visible navigation lights.  The photographer (Colin) also
sighted an orange orb type anomaly to the southeast of our
position, which he mentioned to us briefly.  The next day, I
received a sighting report from Lewis Burt, who reported seeing
a similar or same, orange orb-type anomaly at the same time from
a different location.

EDINBURGH - On March 13, 1999, in Pentland Hills a witness whose
name has bee withheld stated, "Returning to my car after walking
my dog at 9:40 PM GMT, I saw glowing saucer shaped object rise
up from behind a small hill."  No sound at all.  It hovered for
a few seconds then shot off in to the sky.  I do not believe in
aliens in our solar-system.  It is my belief that what I saw was
a secret government ship, which has been built in cooperation
with other NATO governments.  Thanks to Dave Ledger
dledger@cableinet.co.uk (Dave Ledger)

P.E.E.R. REPORTS STUDY ON ABDUCTION AND PATHOLOGY

The latest edition of PEER Perspectives, the journal of Dr. John
Mack's Program for Extraordinary Experience Research, reports
results of a recent study in which 40 professed abduction
experiencers were compared with 40 non-experiencer control
subjects across a wide range of psychological characteristics.
The study strongly suggests that psychopathology is not a factor
in most abduction reports.  The experiencers and control
subjects were matched for age, gender, education and racial
background.  All subjects filled out standard psychological
questionnaires including the Schedule for Nonadaptive and
Adaptive Personality (SNAP), the Symptom Checklist-90-Revised
(SCL-90-R), the Creative Imagination Scale and the Gudjonsson
Suggestibility Scale.  Among the findings: Experiencers show no
greater signs of personality disorder than do non-experiencers.
Specifically, experiencers as a group are not more insecure, do
not more often exaggerate or seek attention, do not tend to lie
more and do not have greater difficulty relating to other people
in daily life than do non-experiencers. Experiencers and
non-experiencers are also similar in their average degree of
hypnotizability and suggestibility. Experiencers do score higher
in the area of "eccentric perception," meaning that they more
often report unusual body sensations, out-of-body experiences
and hearing of voices than do non-experiences.  However, these
reported sensations may be a direct function of abduction rather
than a sign of pathology.  The PEER study notes that when such
perceptions are found in connection with negative traits such as
low self-esteem and tendencies to self-harm, they can be
interpreted as possibly pathological.  But in the experiencer
group, the tendency to eccentric perception was found alongside
positive traits such as high work commitment, positive mood and
low rather than high dependency. "The findings suggest that
persons who were psychologically healthy were reporting events
that were not typically understood to be real by most healthy
individuals in our culture," the report states.  "Since
personality disorders, imagination and suggestibility do not
account for alien abduction narratives, a new set of questions
needs to be asked."  Thanks Katharina Wilson and John Mack's
P.E.E.R. group at http://www.peer-mack.org.

RUSSIAN MILITARY ACCUSES US OF TESTING NEW SECRET BOMB

YUGOSLAVIA -- Russian military officials accused the United
States of testing a new secret weapon in Yugoslavia -- a weapon
that is somewhere between conventional and nuclear!  "The United
States is using Yugoslavia as a test range for its latest secret
means of destruction," representatives of the Russian Defense
ministry told reporters.  The Pentagon refused immediate
comment.  Russia claims that a bomb tested in Yugoslavia
radically differs from conventional weapons.  "It was created in
Los Alamos and is aimed to destroy radio electronic equipment,"
the TASS newswire reported in Tuesday flashes.  The military
said that the bomb generates an electric impulse similar to
electromagnetic fluctuations caused by a nuclear explosion.
They added that the bombs are being carried by two strategic B-2
bombers of the Stealth technology.  Russian military officials
provided no other details.  Thanks to TASS and Skywatch
International.

MARS

The controversy surrounding ALH 84001 (the Martian meteorite
that NASA scientists believe contains fossilized traces of
bacteria that originated on the Red Planet) continues, and
there's been an interesting new development.  DR Andrew Steele,
a British scientist working with the NASA team studying the
meteorite, has discovered living bacteria within the meteorite.
Before you get too excited, I should say that these are
decidedly terrestrial micro-organisms.  But the fact is that
they've been feeding on the meteorite's organic carbon
molecules, formed in an era when Mars almost certainly had
running water on its surface.  The fact that the bacteria can
thrive off Martian rock is compelling evidence that life is not
some unique miracle that can only exist here on Earth, but
something that can exist in all sorts of different environments.
Thanks to Georgina Bruni at  www.hotgossip.co.uk -

HYPERSONIC AIRCRAFT RESEARCH

The April 5, 1999, issue of "Aviation Week and Space Technology"
contains an article by Craig Covault titled "Global Presence'
Objective Drives Hypersonic Research."  It mentions the
following items:  "Within 15 years managers hope [new]
technology will allow development of a military
single-stage-to-orbit vehicle with a hypersonic lift-to-drag
ratio of 3.  This would enable the vehicle to launch into any
orbital inclination, then return to base after one revolution of
the Earth.  "One of the concepts to be explored are hypersonic
plasma characteristics first discovered in the US in 1958 and
more recently revived in Russia in the 'Ajax' concept. See Ajax
http://www2.cybercities.com/v/venik/aviation/plasmamain.htm "The
plasma around hypersonic vehicles is ionized air that is
electrically conductive.  Theory and some initial tests indicate
that if a magnetic field is beamed from the vehicle, the
electrical properties of the plasma will be affected such that
the bow shock will physically move farther away from the
vehicle, dramatically reducing drag.  This and other Ajax
factors related to heat transfer and the real time conversion of
fuels on such a vehicle [?] could have a revolutionary impact on
the ability to create air-breathing hypersonic vehicles...  'It
is potential breakthrough technology."  Thanks to Joel
Carpenter. Editors Note:  This research is being used in the
Hypersonic aircraft now under development.

NASA REPORTS FLYING DISC NOW A REALITY

(NASA) Troy, New York.  "It came out of a trans-atmospheric
vehicle design course at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute,"
explained Proffessor Leik Myrabo.  The microwave Lightcraft
being studied by Myrabo and his students is shaped that way
because that's how the physics works.  It's an advanced
derivative of a tiny, 25-gram craft that he is pushing around on
a 10 kilowatt beam of infrared laser light in tests at White
Sands Missile Range, NM.  Myrabo discussed his work last week
during the Advanced Propulsion Research Workshop held in
Huntsville.  "This is where we are now," Myrabo said, showing a
picture of Dr. Robert Goddard with his first liquid propellant
rocket, launched March 16, 1926.  Just 43 years later, a
sophisticated descendant of that rocket sent the first humans to
the Moon.  "My goal has been to cut the cost of getting to space
by a factor of 1,000 using a system that is completely green,"
he explained of his passion for the past three decades.  Since
1972, he has been building on an idea developed by Arthur
Kantrowitz to use lasers to launch satellites.  Myrabo
introduced a variation using the atmosphere as the propellant
heated by a laser.  At higher altitude and at 5.5 times the
speed of sound, as the air thins, the craft would use a small
supply of on board hydrogen, still heated by the remote laser
beam.  Myrabo's initial design for NASA was a 5-meter (16.5 ft)
diameter, four-person craft in a shape that he dubbed Acorn.
The front is shaped to reflect the coherent laser light into a
narrow region between the body and a shroud.  The focused light
superheats the air to become a jet exhaust that pushes the craft
up.  In this case, the laser power station would be based in
orbit.  The NASA-supported 'Lightcraft' project is involved in
testing a saucer-shaped vessel which is lifted to great heights
by a high-powered laser.  The laser superheats the air beneath
the craft, causing it to expand and provide the propulsive force
needed.  Even more interesting is that the craft would be able
to behave very differently than conventional aircraft.
"Switching on the microwave transmitter would make the
Lightcraft disappear in an eye blink as the Lightcraft
accelerates to 15,000 mph."  Thanks to Mitch Battros, Earth
Changes TV,  See
science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/prop16apr99_1.htm  Editors
Note:  UFOs may be using a from of this technology coupled with
an anti-gravity exotic propulsion system.

Crass commercials: GET THE BEST REALTORS and HELP UFO RESEARCH
As a special aid to our readers, we can provide you with the
best real estate experts in your area at no cost to you.  If you
obtain your own agent, how long have they been in the business?
And how good a producer are they?  I can provide free relocation
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and would like a top flight real estate agent e-mail me at
Majorstar@aol.com or call 609 654-0020.  Please provide your
name, phone number, address, price, and location.

MUFON JOURNAL For more detailed investigative reports subscribe
by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or E-mail
Mufon@aol.com.  Filer's Files Copyright 1998 by George A. Filer,
all rights reserved.  Readers may post items from the Files on
their Websites provided that they credit the newsletter and its
editor by name and list the date of issue that the item
appeared.  Send your letters to me at Majorstar@aol.com.  If you





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   Apr > Apr 24

                   Re: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 23:25:45 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 02:36:31 -0400
Subject: Re: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed


Ladies and Gents:

>From: Steven J. Dunn <SDunn@logicon.com>
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:06:28 -0700
>Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:37:41 -0400
>Subject: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed

>Source: <http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_325000/325290.stm>

>Original Publication Date 1999/04/22 04:07:21

>By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse

>A map of the Moon 10 times older than anything known before has
>been found carved into stone at one of Ireland's most ancient
>and mysterious Neolithic sites.

>It has been identified by Dr Philip Stooke of the University of
>Western Ontario in Canada.

<snip>

>"It's all there in the carving. You can see the overall pattern
>of the lunar features from features such as Mare Humorun through
>to Mare Crisium."

I invite any interested list members to observe the Full Moon,
even within a day or two of Full, with the unaided eye and
compare your view with the arcs and spots proposed in this
theory.  Coming Full Moons will be May 15, June 13, July 13 and
August 11.

One of the most prominent features is the "left eye" of the "Man
in the Moon", composed of the Sea of Serenity and Sea of
Tranquility, with the Seas of Fertility and Nectars and their
connecting plains forming two elongated prominent "fingers".  In
fact, in some American Indian folklore these form either the
head or a rabit when coming up in the East, with the fingers
being the ears, or to others are a frog, when setting in the
West, with the fingers representing the legs.

The proposed map would depict these prominent "fingers" only as
small dark spots.  To the naked eye, the Seas of Fertility and
Nectars do not appear as round small spots.  The upper arc might
match the appearance of Mare Frigoris, the "forehead" of the
Man, but the three arcs are not obvious to me.

<snip>

>The circular limb of the moon is not included in the carving. Dr
>Stooke believes that it may have been drawn on the rock with
>chalk or with coloured paint.

In other words, all other possible features, dots, arcs, etc.,
beyond those shown were not included.  I would think that a
circle to indicate the shape and boundary of the Moon would be
necessary.  Seems weak to me.  Take a look yourselves and judge.

Clear skies,
Bob Young





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                    P-47: UFO History: A Call for Papers

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:34:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:32:31 -0400
Subject: P-47: UFO History: A Call for Papers

To: UFO Historians and Other UFO Researchers

PROJECT 1947 requests the following for publication:

1. Summaries of serious projects currently conducted by
individuals and organizations. Summaries should not be more than
one page. While we would like to know about investigations
concerning historical material, summaries of other projects that
adhere to scientific or scholarly principles or that are
conducted in a methodical manner, are most welcome. Please
include contact information.

2. Articles, notes, little known items on historical UFO
subjects and research techniques:

  a. The History of the UFO Phenomena: The natural history, that
  is the history of the phenomenon itself, history of UFO
  investigations, society's reactions to UFOs, etc.,

  b. Research Techniques: how to conduct historical
  investigations, FOIA strategies, suggestions of likely avenues
  of investigations, etc.,

  c. Related Historical Items: historical items on unusual
  shaped or performing aircraft (V-173, XF5U-1, Silver Bug,
  etc.), other unusual phenomena (ball lightning, sprites,
  earthquake lights, etc.), and sociological items ("War of the
  Worlds" broadcasts reactions, etc.)

  d. New accounts of historical sightings or significant new
  information on older sightings, significant news items that
  have not seen wide distribution, and

  e. Other UFO Investigations: attempted scientific or other
  methodical investigations of the UFO phenomenon or sightings.
  (For example: How did the Civilian Saucer of Investigations of
  Los Angeles conduct their investigations and evaluation. This
  is probably a question that we will never be able to answer,
  however they did subject sightings to a rigorous evaluation
  process.)

  Articles, notes, short items, material that has not seen wide
  distribution or material that has not been published are most
  welcome. We intend to bring out a publication or place the
  material on a dedicated UFO history website which features
  lists of serious ongoing projects and interesting articles.
  (The Project 1947 website will not be used for this purpose,
  but the Internet medium will be a new dedicated UFO history
  website.)

Generally, we consider historical UFO material would include,
but be necessarily limited to, pre-1947 items, material from the
early UFO era to the end of Project Blue Book. Later items will
also be considered.

My personal contribution is an interview with a retired Air
Force general, "I Was the First UFO Investigator!"

It should go without saying that material outside of the US is
most welcome.

Please submit material to jan@cyberzone.net or
project1947@yahoo.com or to the postal address below:

Comments and suggestions are welcome.

Please feel free to redistribute of this message widely.

Thank you.

--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA





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   Apr > Apr 24

                            Re: Ruppelt The Liar?

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:53:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:15:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Ruppelt The Liar?


Ruppelt's Report On UFOs is not, by any stretch of the
imagination, a scholarly book. It is a popular account, which
was ghost written for him, with no references .

I have never subscribed to the idea that Ruppelt is some kind of
hero of ufology.

His superiors, peers, and subordinates all said he was a hard
working guy.

His book has a lot of things that we would not have known about
if not for him, or it would have taken years to piece together
the information. The best example was the Top Secret Estimate of
the Situation. Beside Ruppelt's account, there are few
references to this report.

That said, Ruppelt's book leaves a lot to be desired concerning
UFO history. Much of his early history seems to be from
impressions he gained talking to personnel at WPAFB. He seemed
to know nothing about AIR 203 or JIC report. (The JIC pub might
have still be classified during his tenure. AIR 203 was
unclassified.)

He did not get his information on the Mantel case directly from
the Project Sign files as he talks about peering at microfilms
that were hard to read (the Project Sign microfilms?) (I was
able to look at the paper files for 1947-1949 at the National
Archives.) It seems that possibly Ruppelt did not get access to
these paper files during his tenure if he had to use microfilm
copies to read about early cases.

His note taking, memories of events and his ghost writer who may
have wanted to jazz things up could all figure into his problem
getting some facts straight.

The Air Force was not forthcoming with information for almost 2
decades on UFOs. One of the first big break throughs was Don
Berliner's effort to obtain The Project Grudge/Blue Book Reports
#1-12. Berliner and NICAP almost had to pull a sit in to get
these things. (Other previous efforts, such as Davidson (and
others) successful attempt to obtained Project Blue Book Special
Report #14, are notable. There were other transfers of
information. Bloecher's and McDonald's trips to ATIC also
revealed additional official information.) It was difficult to
check Ruppelt's information until the Air Force became more open
about UFO matters. (Bloecher was able to get information from
USAF PIO, Major Carl Hart on cases that Hynek had slipped to
CSI, NY.) The Project Blue Book files were not readily available
for years after Blue Book closed.

Some of Ruppelt's information is all wet. In newspaper articles
about his book, he repeated the contention that there were no
evidence of unexplained objects were there were accurate
information on speed, size, and altitude. Brad has previously
noted that is untrue.

Ruppelt's misreporting of the Robertson panel's recommendations,
I have discussed elsewhere.

Ruppelt did blow the whistle on the phony hype about the Air
Force's widely publicized distribution of the "gird cameras" to
control tower. The cameras did not work.

Ruppelt hyped the 4602d AISS entry into UFO investigations. In
actually, their investigations were not well done, a junior
officer and one enlisted man at headquarters were constantly
sending back intelligence reports to get the detachments to
complete them correctly.

Ruppelt was writing a popular book which was reworked by a ghost
writer and cleared by the Air Force. To get it by the Air Force
he might have change some material. He did have a ghost writer
who had no background in UFOs. So, was this out and out lying
and covering up? I don't think so. He was not writing history,
either. His stated purpose for the book remember, "was to help
the Air Force." So it would seem that he neither helped the Air
Force nor wrote an accurate history.

--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135





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                           P-47: Ruppelt The Liar?

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:53:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:46:16 -0400
Subject: P-47: Ruppelt The Liar?


Ruppelt's Report On UFOs is not, by any stretch of the
imagination, a scholarly book. It is a popular account, which
was ghost written for him, with no references .

I have never subscribed to the idea that Ruppelt is some kind of
hero of ufology.

His superiors, peers, and subordinates all said he was a hard
working guy.

His book has a lot of things that we would not have known about
if not for him, or it would have taken years to piece together
the information. The best example was the Top Secret Estimate of
the Situation. Beside Ruppelt's account, there are few
references to this report.

That said, Ruppelt's book leaves a lot to be desired concerning
UFO history. Much of his early history seems to be from
impressions he gained talking to personnel at WPAFB. He seemed
to know nothing about AIR 203 or JIC report. (The JIC pub might
have still be classified during his tenure. AIR 203 was
unclassified.)

He did not get his information on the Mantel case directly from
the Project Sign files as he talks about peering at microfilms
that were hard to read (the Project Sign microfilms?) (I was
able to look at the paper files for 1947-1949 at the National
Archives.) It seems that possibly Ruppelt did not get access to
these paper files during his tenure if he had to use microfilm
copies to read about early cases.

His note taking, memories of events and his ghost writer who may
have wanted to jazz things up could all figure into his problem
getting some facts straight.

The Air Force was not forthcoming with information for almost 2
decades on UFOs. One of the first big break throughs was Don
Berliner's effort to obtain The Project Grudge/Blue Book Reports
#1-12. Berliner and NICAP almost had to pull a sit in to get
these things. (Other previous efforts, such as Davidson (and
others) successful attempt to obtained Project Blue Book Special
Report #14, are notable. There were other transfers of
information. Bloecher's and McDonald's trips to ATIC also
revealed additional official information.) It was difficult to
check Ruppelt's information until the Air Force became more open
about UFO matters. (Bloecher was able to get information from
USAF PIO, Major Carl Hart on cases that Hynek had slipped to
CSI, NY.) The Project Blue Book files were not readily available
for years after Blue Book closed.

Some of Ruppelt's information is all wet. In newspaper articles
about his book, he repeated the contention that there were no
evidence of unexplained objects were there were accurate
information on speed, size, and altitude. Brad has previously
noted that is untrue.

Ruppelt's misreporting of the Robertson panel's recommendations,
I have discussed elsewhere.

Ruppelt did blow the whistle on the phony hype about the Air
Force's widely publicized distribution of the "gird cameras" to
control tower. The cameras did not work.

Ruppelt hyped the 4602d AISS entry into UFO investigations. In
actually, their investigations were not well done, a junior
officer and one enlisted man at headquarters were constantly
sending back intelligence reports to get the detachments to
complete them correctly.

Ruppelt was writing a popular book which was reworked by a ghost
writer and cleared by the Air Force. To get it by the Air Force
he might have change some material. He did have a ghost writer
who had no background in UFOs. So, was this out and out lying
and covering up? I don't think so. He was not writing history,
either. His stated purpose for the book remember, "was to help
the Air Force." So it would seem that he neither helped the Air
Force nor wrote an accurate history.

--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA





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   Apr > Apr 24

             Spielberg Produces 20-Hour Miniseries On Abductions

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 04:10:20 GMT
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:28:07 -0400
Subject: Spielberg Produces 20-Hour Miniseries On Abductions


Source: Reuters via Yahoo! News,

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/re/story.html?s=3Dv/nm/19990423/re/tele=
vision_spielberg_1.html

Stig

***


Yahoo! News

Entertainment Headlines

Friday April 23 4:07 AM ET


Spielberg 'Taken' By Aliens


Full Coverage

UFOs


By John Dempsey

NEW YORK (Variety) - Steven Spielberg, the director of "ET" and
"Close Encounters of the Third Kind," is heading off to outer
space again with "Taken," a 20-hour miniseries focusing on alien
abductions.

Spielberg will serve as executive producer of the DreamWorks TV
project, which will screen on cable's Sci-Fi Channel in the
third quarter of 2000. It will be based on reports of UFO
landings in New Mexico dating back to 1947.

"Steven has always had an interest in this subject," said Barry
Diller, chairman and CEO of Sci-Fi's USA Networks parent.

He told Daily Variety that Spielberg's treatment starts from the
premise "that there are abductions, that they're real and not
made up. This will be a big story with multiple characters,
protagonists and antagonists, and it'll span lots of decades."

In a statement, Spielberg called himself a fan of the Sci-Fi
Channel, and said "no other place" is better suited for a
miniseries of the "magnitude" of "Taken."

"Taken," which will cost upward of $40 million, will begin
production this summer. The director and cast are still to be
named. The Sci-Fi Channel plans to run it for two hours a night
over 10 consecutive nights.


Copyright =A9 1999 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.
Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly
prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.

Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the





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                    * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-23-99

From: Rense E-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:24:07 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:36:49 -0400
Subject: * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-23-99



                   * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *

                         The Week Ahead
                      4-25-99 thru 5-1-99

           Guests, Announcements, Week's Top Stories
                       From sightings.com

Jeff Rense E-News is distributed exclusively by Free Subscription.


                      * From Jeff's Desk *

As most of you know, I endeavor to present a wide spectrum of
unusual information for your consideration.  This past week was
no exception.  On Monday, David John Oates presented many
arresting speech reversals dealing with the US/NATO war on
Yugoslavia.  Then, on Tuesday, Dr. Lorraine Day, MD spent two
hours giving her views on the accelerating NWO takeover.  We
just received the following letter from attorney Steffan Bertsch
which eloquently summarizes several other recent guests...

>From  Steffan Bertsch <steffanlaw@halcyon.com>   4-23-99

All,

Several of my list were interested in knowing what David Icke
discussed on the Jeff Rense Radio show on April 22, 1999 because
they were unable to catch the show, so I am providing a brief
analysis of the interview here.

First of all, Jeff Rense is courageous enough to broadcast
messages that few on network radio would dare to address.  Among
his recent guests whose messages are too hot for other talk-show
hosts, are, David Icke, whose web site is:  davidicke.com,
Dr. Joseph Chiappalone, whose web site is: www.cia.com.au/annwn,
and Sherman Skolnik, who has no web site that I am aware of.

It would be well worth your while to check out sightings.com and
listen to interviews of either of these three gentlemen in the
archive section of the Rense web site.  Icke has come to his
conclusions of the New World Order and ET control of the planet
via research of physical events on the earth.  Chiappalone has
acquired his information about evil ET control of the planet via
metaphysical enlightenment to the Gnostic message.  Skolnik is a
no-holds barred researcher who is out to expose corruption on
any level.  None of you need accept any or all of what these
three have said on Rense's show, but, it would do you well to
listen to their messages and consider them.

I would say that for those of you who are very skeptical of
alternative dimensions, ETs and such, Skolnik is your man.  If
you want to understand "how" the physical is being played out by
ET conspiracies and unseen forces, David Icke will give you
incredible insight.  And for those rare few who wish to learn
"why" the ETs are so active in mundane matters of our earth, and
develop a Gnostic insight to the ongoing war of Good versus
Evil, listen to some of  Jeff's interviews of Dr. Chiappalone
either on archive, or an interview of him will be re-broadcast
this Sunday, 4/26/99 at 8pm Pacific Time.  This is an interview
that I highly recommend you catch because it blends metaphysical
with the physical quite well.

If you have no radio station that carries Rense, you can listen
on the internet.  I would advise any who want to get information
that truly dares to expose the NWO to contact program directors
of radio stations to air his show.

Regarding the April 22, 1999 interview of David Icke by Jeff
Rense, it covered all manner of subjects.  Icke has formulated
the basic plan of the NWO, which he calls:
Problem-Reaction-Solution. He says that you can trace most
government moves by using this method.  For instance, if the NWO
wants to get rid of guns in America, it will create problems to
guns, such as the recent shooting in Littleton, Colorado.  Then,
the NWO will fuel an emotional reaction to the event by using
the media, which it controls.  Finally, the NWO will offer the
solution, in this case, more police on the school grounds and
instant legislation to pervert the Second Amendment.

While discussing the Littleton incident on the show, Icke
revealed that Charlton Heston might be a NWO undercover agent,
who will soon announce that despite his affinity for guns, the
recent violent developments have caused him to re-think his
position.  In other words, he's about to deliver a George Bush
type blow to the NRA.  Of course, anyone who understands how
infiltration works, knows full well that any group that's been
around for several years has a swarm of NWO agents inside it.
And it the organization has been around for a lot of years, a
NWO agent generally heads or directs the group.

Icke explained that the NWO is on a very tight time table
because of the astrological forces that it understands and uses
to plan all major wars, depressions, riots and etc.  Those of
you who read my series on "Unseen Forces" may have gathered that
the NWO also uses a 9-based numerology for employing political
strategies.  It likewise uses a 13-based numerology to control
stock market movements.  Many scoff at astrology and numerology;
others fear them because they believe the studies are of the
devil.  The bottom line is that the NWO uses them, and it
controls the planet partially because of its use of these tools,
so there must be something to those sciences.  As Icke pointed
out, the NWO faces a critical time based upon these unseen
forces if it wishes to make its move for total OVERT domination.
Those in the know understand that the NWO already has near total
COVERT control of every aspect on the globe.

Icke also exposed George Bush and Henry Kissinger as shape-
shifting ETs.  And, that's really the guts of NWO control of the
planet.  We have many human-looking ETs on planet at this time.
Most mean us ill and serve their Evil Master.  Some are here to
rescue us from the Evil Mind's enslavement of the earth and its
inhabitants.  Can you tell which ones are which?  Are any of
them God's messengers?  If so, will you foolishly follow the
fiends and reject the friends of liberty?  Or, will you deny
ET existence totally?  The choice is yours.

Steffan
___________


                         * TOP STORIES *

           Just a few of last week's most intriguing!
                    http://www.sightings.com


Read these vitally important articles and dozens more at
http://www.sightings.com  All stories are saved and archived
in our huge DataPages section


   * Clinton And Blair Spurn Milosovic's Offer Of
     'International' Kosovo Force

   * President Milosevic Exclusive Interview By Houston TV
     News Analyst

   * NATO Bombs Milosevic House - Denies Trying To Kill Him...

   * NATO's Real Target Is Russia

   * Clinton Rushes To Exploit Colorado Shootings

   * Major US Military Decline Straining Capabilities

   * Report Finds China Stole Data On Top American Nuclear
     Warhead

   * China Premier Rebukes Protesters- Warns Of Force To
     Reclaim Taiwan

   * England's Mystery Lights - Flashlights On Foxes, UFOs,
     Seismic Stress?

   * Spielberg Will Produce $40 Million ET Abduction TV
     Miniseries

   * 3,500 Outlawed Cluster Bombs Dropped Around One
     Village Alone

   * Arkansas Plant Sends Thousands Of Tons Potentially
     Deadly Hot Dogs To Russia

   * Yeltsin - Russia Will Not Allow West To Defeat Milosevic
     And Control Yugoslavia

   * UPDATE Kosovo Mine Said To Yield $3 TRILLION Over Next
     5 Years

   * The Rambouillet 'Total Surrender' Agreement - Why
     Yugoslavia Refused It

   * The Third Secret Of Fatima Confirmed??

   * Ecological Disaster After NATO Hits Petrochemical Plant

   * Migraine Pain - Not Mainly In The Brain

   * Men And Women's Brains Are Much Different

   * Y2K - New Scenario - Problems To Begin In July And Linger
     For 30 Months

   * Y2K - Russia And US Said Still Cooperating

   * Y2K - New Study Predicts Phones Will Work At Dawn Of 2000

   * UFO Scotland Posts Best UFO Video Clips Yet - See Them Now

   * Cloned Beef Has Been Sold For Fours Year In Part Of Japan -
     Consumers Shocked

   * UPDATE Bizarre 1947 'Ulimate Secret Weapon' News Story -
     Your Help Requested

   * Apache Helicopter Sprays Texas Town With WHAT?

   * Contrail Spraying Of Cities Is Real - Part One & Two

                            ---<+>---

"The illusion of freedom (in America) will continue as long as
it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where
the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just
take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they
will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see
the brick wall at the back of the theater."- Frank Zappa

                            ---<+>---

                     * THIS WEEK'S GUESTS *
                      4-25-99 thru 5-1-99

(Please note Jeff's Guest schedule can change due to late breaking
stories, etc)

SUN  4-25-99
    (Encore 4-14-99)
    Michael Lindemann: Weekly UFO/ET Update
    Dr. Joseph Chiappalone MD: Sliding Toward The Edge...

MON  4-26-99
    Carol Rainey: Media Suppression Of UFOs
    John Whitley: NWO War On Yugoslavia

TUE  4-27-99
    UFO*BC: Monthy Canada UFO Report
    pending

WED  4-28-99
    Michael Lindemann: Weekly UFO/World Update
    LIVE from England: Robert McBratney: Mother Shipton's Prophecies

THU  4-29-99
    Jeffrey Nyquist: The Russian Bear: Dead Or Alive?

FRI  4-30-99
    Steve Douglass: Recording Current Military Transmissions
    Elizabeth Baron: Nationally-Known Psychic

SAT 5-1
    David John Oates Reverse Speech Show:
    The discoverer of RS does reversals live on the air!


                  --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                 Hidden Mysteries of the Pyramid

Page 49: (of the secret room)
"The greatest of many shocks was in the fact that beyond this
threshold the floor seemed antiseptic clean with no trace of
even one dust particle.  Just at the door, on the foyer floor,
the dust pile up could better be described as a wall of
snow that drifts against a doorway."

               http://www.immunotex.com/pyramid/

                  --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

Get Paid for Surfing - as seen in Dow Jones Interactive,
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"Wars can be prevented just as surely as they can be provoked,
and we who fail to prevent them must share in the guilt for
the dead."                            -- General Omar Bradley









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   Apr > Apr 24

               Fireball Lights Up Skies Over Washington State

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 04:47:57 GMT
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:48:27 -0400
Subject: Fireball Lights Up Skies Over Washington State


Source: "spokane.net",

http://www.spokane.net:80/news-story-body.asp?Date=042399&ID=s565372&cat=

Stig

***


April 23, 1999

Fireball lights up skies across region

Compiled from wire services -


Kennewick _ The skies over Eastern Washington were lit up
Wednesday night by a giant fireball.

The flaming orange object was seen from Prosser to the Spokane
area and was likely part of the Lyrid meteor shower that
climaxed Wednesday, said Peter Davenport, director of the
National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle.

Even the Missoula emergency dispatch line was flooded with
calls, Davenport said.

Many eyewitnesses said it was bigger than they imagined
possible. Based on two reports out of Spokane, Davenport said
the meteor appeared "larger than the disk of a full moon" and
had "some kind of peculiar green tail behind it."





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   Apr > Apr 24

                  Mars Sundial Base To Be Built In Arizona

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 05:48:25 GMT
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:09:45 -0400
Subject: Mars Sundial Base To Be Built In Arizona


Source: AP via the Arizona Central,

http://www.azcentral.com/news/0423mars.shtml

Stig

***

Extraterrestrial sundial base to be built in Arizona

The Associated Press

April 23, 1999

TUCSON -- Drawings submitted by children in six states have been
incorporated into the design of the first extraterrestrial
sundial, which will ride to Mars aboard a NASA spacecraft in
2001.

Sheri Klug of Arizona State University asked children to send in
ideas for the sundial, and about 160 of them responded with
drawings and e-mails.

"We asked them, if you had a chance to help design something
that was going to be put on another planet, what message would
you send? What would you include and why?" said Klug, director
of ASU's Mars Education and Outreach Program.

A design team took the students' artwork and suggestions and
incorporated them into the final product, which was unveiled
Wednesday at Cornell University in Ithaca, N.Y.

The base of the aluminum sundial is a square 3 inches high on
the sides. Photo etching and engraving will be used to apply
drawings and lettering to the base and its four side panels.

The sundial base will be manufactured at Arizona State, Klug
said.

One student idea was to include text in many languages to
demonstrate the diversity of cultures on Earth. So the word
"Mars" will be engraved into the sundial in 24 languages.

The four gold-colored side panels bear artwork alongside a
written message to human explorers who seek out the landing site
of the robotic spacecraft, the Mars Surveyor 2001, in the
future.

"A lot of these kids made little stick-figure drawings of
people. We used a few that were submitted, then drew a few of
our own that were in the same style," said design team member
Tyler Nordgren, an astronomer and artist at the U.S. Naval
Observatory in Flagstaff.

A message inscribed on the side panels describes the
spacecraft's mission.

"We sent this craft in peace to learn about Mars' past and about
our future," the message says. "To those who visit here, we wish
a safe journey and the joy of discovery."

The drawings came from students in Washington, Idaho, California
and three other states. Arizona wasn't represented. Details as
to whose were incorporated weren't available.

The Mars Surveyor 2001 lander is scheduled for launch in April
2001 and will land in January 2002.







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   Apr > Apr 24

                          Buckley Sighting Reported

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 05:09:51 GMT
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:57:24 -0400
Subject: Buckley Sighting Reported


Source: The Chicago Sun-Times,

http://www.suntimes.com/output/show/clear21.htm

Stig

***

Buckley sighting reported

April 21, 1999

BY BILL ZWECKER SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

While Christopher Buckley calls himself a "UFO agnostic," the
author admits he is totally fascinated by the phenomenon of
extraterrestial life. "Simply because it is such a big thing in
this country," he says. "It's huge." Buckley, who has snared
both critical and popular acclaim over the past half-dozen
years--thanks to such satires as The White House Mess, Thank You
for Smoking and Wry Martinis--is calling from Minneapolis,
having just "survived one heck of a nasty traffic jam."

The subject at hand? Anything that strikes his fancy. First up,
of course, is his latest book--Little Green Men (Random House,
$24.95). Combine that title with the author's delayed call (due
to that traffic snafu) and one wonders if there was any
interference from, well, little green men.

A gentle teasing about being temporarily abducted by aliens revs
up Buckley's razor-sharp wit.

"No. Actually, I was in the middle of a very enjoyable probe,"
he said, making a not-so-subtle reference to the physical
examination of "alien" abductees in Little Green Men. "But being
the professional I am, I looked at my watch--which, of course,
had stopped--giving me my first clue, and made me realize I was
late for our chat." Chatting is clearly an avocation Buckley
enjoys. Of course, being the only son of conservative icon and
political pundit William F. Buckley Jr., he is presumed to have
discovered the art of lively and engaging conversation at an
early age.

Conversation is easy. Buckley loves to jump around, but his
range of topics always seems to tie together in a flow of
language that makes the listener laugh often, imagine easily and
stop and think about serious implications now and then, too.

First of all, Buckley explains the sheer magnitude of "the
belief system we've created" regarding UFO phenomenon made it a
subject he couldn't wait to tackle. "After all, think about it.
The 50th anniversary of [alleged UFO sightings in Roswell, N.M.]
made the cover of Time ... " Throw in Buckley's penchant to
tweak the Washington Beltway establishment, and Little Green Men
was off and running.

The book juxtaposes the presumed behavior of aliens with D.C.'s
power pundits--satirically attesting to how much the two groups
have in common.

Underlying the whole story is the possibility that the entire
UFO thing is one big government hoax. Those inflated federal
defense budgets and "Star Wars" programs have to be justified
somehow in this post-Cold War world, don't they?

Once he knew he was going to write a book about aliens and media
decisionmakers, Buckley immediately knew the character around
whom he would spin his tale--a strait-laced Washington Sunday
morning talk show king dubbed John Oliver Banion.

"I just became obsessed with the idea of abducting George Will
and probing him," said Buckley. "I hasten to say, I'm a big fan
of his ... he has one of the finest minds working today, but as
a figure he does lend himself to a certain amount of
caricature."

Yet even readers of Little Green Men not privy to Buckley's
revelation in this interview would likely catch the Will
influence on the Banion character.

"The key is that line [early in the book] about Banion being
perpetually on the verge of smiling while never actually giving
into the impulse," said Buckley. "Doesn't that just tell you
it's George Will?"

Throughout the book, Buckley also uses a number of
footnotes--obviously designed for comic relief. Claudia Schiffer
is footnoted as "Highly desirable German model." Buckley
chuckles when he says, "It's maybe the only time she's been
footnoted in contemporary literature."

Asked whether he's also implying that Schiffer should only be a
footnote in our contemporary culture, Buckley laughs, but keeps
mum.

When it comes to his work ethic, the author sheepishly admits to
being more disciplined than he'd like one to think. "But I don't
know that I'd want to be a full-time novelist. It's kind of fun
to go from one job [as managing editor of Forbes' FYI magazine]
to the other. ... Frankly, it's prudent for most novelists to
have a day job."

Buckley pauses and then shares a thought about one of his
favorite authors, Honore de Balzac. "He used to make himself a
couple of pots of coffee and start writing at something like
midnight and write for 18 hours--until he was spent." Buckley
also likes to share a "great line Tom Wolfe had about [the
prolific] Balzac. ... Wolfe says, 'The reason he was able to
[produce so much] was that no time-saving devices existed' "
then.

Buckley is a bit cynical when it comes to Hollywood.

"New Line owns [this book], they optioned it, but then they also
optioned the last one. Actually I have three of my books in
development. I've learned that is code for, 'Your book will
never become a movie.' "

For Little Green Men, Buckley does not mind fantasizing about
who he would like to see in the Banion role. "We'd need someone
like George [Will], only younger. I could see Tom Hanks doing
it, because I can see him play stuffy, but then losing it when
he thinks he's been abducted by aliens and surrounded by all
these loons.

"Of course, knowing how Hollywood works, you watch. I expect to
get a call one day when they tell me, 'We're so excited. We just
came from the casting meeting, and Chris Rock is really pumped
about the role.' "








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              Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:08:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:15:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'


>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:58:38 -0600
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
>Subject: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'

>An excerpt from the book, 'Space Aliens from the Pentagon'
>Subtitle - Flying Saucers Are Man-Made Machines
>Author - William R. Lyne, copyright 1993, 1995
>Revised and expanded second edition
>ISBN 0-9637467-1-5
>$17.95
>William R. Lyne
>Creatopia Productions
>Lamy, New Mexico 87540
>(505) 466-3022

<snip>

Dear Don:

I cannot say William Lyne his all the bases in his rant quoted
above.

He seems to have invented some new ones, well worthy of the
irrepressible Weekly World News.

One in particular has me howling,  how the 'illuminati' (or
whoever) 'edited' Maxwell's equations to keep certain
information secret, with the help of the FBI !

24 Nazi submarines off US shores with nuclear missiles all
through WW 2 is another good one, especially the part where they
all scuttled themselves ( officers, men and all ) at the end of
the war.

Hitler would really be pissed if he could see that.

Thank you for livening up an otherwise dull weekend!


- Larry Hatch





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               Berkeley Professor First Academic Chair Of E.T.

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 05:41:47 GMT
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:05:22 -0400
Subject: Berkeley Professor First Academic Chair Of E.T.


Source: The New York Times News Service via the Deseret News,

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,75004861,00.html?

Stig

***

Tuesday, April 20, 1999

Berkeley professor is first academic chairman of E.T. hunt

By Evelyn Nieves
New York Times News Service

HAT CREEK, Calif. - The uninitiated crack jokes. They mention
"The X-Files" and little green men. They wonder if he attends
alien-abductee conventions. They have a good old time.

William Welch just shrugs. It is not his job to convince
skeptics of the possibility of intelligent life beyond this
planet. As the first professor to hold the University of
California at Berkeley's Watson and Marilyn Alberts Chair for
the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence - the first
academic chair of its kind anywhere - Welch has the job of
scouring the universe to find humanity's neighbors out there,
somewhere, light-years away.

Standing in front of an array of 10 radiotelescopes at the
university's Hat Creek Observatory near Mount Lassen here in
Northern California, Welch neither looked nor sounded like a
starry-eyed optimist.

"Will we find intelligent life in space in my lifetime?" he
said. "It's a very remote possibility."

Still, exciting discoveries of the existence of planets around
other stars continually kindle hopes among scientists of one day
finding advanced civilizations in the dark recesses of the
cosmos.

Indeed, Welch is far from alone: A growing community of
scientists is devoting time and energy to the search for
extraterrestrial intelligence, or SETI (pronounced SET-ee), as
the field is commonly called.

But while those committed to the endeavor include some of the
world's leading astronomers, working at universities like
Berkeley, Harvard and Cornell, the new SETI chair, endowed with
$500,000 from two Berkeley alumni, is giving the field new
public notice.

To Frank Drake, president of the SETI Institute in Mountain
View, Calif., who is the pioneer in the field, the SETI chair at
Berkeley is proof positive that the search for extraterrestrial
life has entered the mainstream.

"Back in 1960, SETI was way out there. Things have gotten a lot
better," Drake said. "The attitude in the scientific community
is that yes, there's life in space. There is a general belief
that it is out there and that while it is a difficult pursuit,
this is so important that it is worth the time."






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              Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 03:18:28 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:17:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'


>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:58:38 -0600
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
>Subject: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'

>An excerpt from the book, 'Space Aliens from the Pentagon'
>Subtitle - Flying Saucers Are Man-Made Machines
>Author - William R. Lyne, copyright 1993, 1995
>Revised and expanded second edition
>ISBN 0-9637467-1-5
>$17.95
>William R. Lyne
>Creatopia Productions
>Lamy, New Mexico 87540
>(505) 466-3022

<snip>

Dear Mr. Don Allen:

May we assume, that by posting the above excerpts from the
writings of William R. Lyne,  that you agree with his statements
and assertions, in whole or in part?

Or,  did you simply quote them for our amusement?

Its interesting in either case.

Regards

- Larry Hatch






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                     Re: Spielberg Abduction Miniseries

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 03:45:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:55:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Spielberg Abduction Miniseries


>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:21:35 -0500
>Subject: Spielberg Abduction Miniseries
>From: Stephen MILES Lewis <elfis@io.com>
>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>

>Considering past discussions on Spielbergs original horror
>concepts for E.T., thot my fellow listers would want to know
>about this.

>SMiles

>-----

>Move Over, Mulder, Here Comes Spielberg

>Steven Spielberg's pulling a Mulder.

>The filmmaker behind Close Encounters of the Third Kind and E.T.
>is again tracking down little green men, executive producing a
>massive $40 million, 20-hour miniseries about alien-abduction
>for the Sci-Fi Channel.

>Slated to be one of the biggest TV events ever, the project,
>titled Taken, will chase UFOs from Roswell, New Mexico, in the
>1940s up through Y2K, Daily Variety reports.

>"Steven has always had an interest in this subject," says Barry
>Diller, the chair of Sci-Fi Channel parent USA Networks, to the
>trade. "This will be a big story with multiple characters,
>protagonists and antagonists, and it'll span lots of decades."

>No word yet on stars or a director, but Variety says Spielberg
>will get things going this summer, hoping for a third quarter
>showing next year.

>The Sci-Fi Channel is planning on running Taken for two hours
>per night over 10 consecutive days.

>That makes the minseries one of the biggest TV events ever,
>behind the 24-hour adaptation of James Michener's Centennial on
>NBC in 1978. Herman Wouks' The Winds of War ran 18 hours on ABC
>in 1983 and 1998's Emmy-winning From the Earth to the Moon
>lasted 12 hours on HBO.

Dear Stephen:

This suggests a question.

Clearly, Spielberg sees a highly profitable film or he would not
invest in it. That is all highly understandable.

Yet, he keeps returning to the same theme..  ETs, abductions,
UFO related stuff. Why?

The old producers of 'epics' ( C.B. DeMille et.al.) would
produce epics, but there was no central theme apart from
"ancient times" .. the bible .. anything larger than life.

Is there some particular reason Spielberg takes this particular
path? Does he perhaps have something in his background, a
friend, an experience, something that fascinates him with the
general topic of alien visitation?

I must admit near total ignorance of Hollywood in general, and
its bizarre denizens in particular. So, forgive me if this
sounds like an ignorant question.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch





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                   Re: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 03:35:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:47:07 -0400
Subject: Re: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed


>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 23:25:45 EDT
>Subject: Re: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>Ladies and Gents:

>>From: Steven J. Dunn <SDunn@logicon.com>
>>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:06:28 -0700
>>Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:37:41 -0400
>>Subject: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed

>>Source: <http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_325000/325290.stm>

>>Original Publication Date 1999/04/22 04:07:21

>>By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse

>>A map of the Moon 10 times older than anything known before has
>>been found carved into stone at one of Ireland's most ancient
>>and mysterious Neolithic sites.

>>It has been identified by Dr Philip Stooke of the University of
>>Western Ontario in Canada.

><snip>

>>"It's all there in the carving. You can see the overall pattern
>>of the lunar features from features such as Mare Humorun through
>>to Mare Crisium."

>I invite any interested list members to observe the Full Moon,
>even within a day or two of Full, with the unaided eye and
>compare your view with the arcs and spots proposed in this
>theory.  Coming Full Moons will be May 15, June 13, July 13 and
>August 11.

>One of the most prominent features is the "left eye" of the "Man
>in the Moon", composed of the Sea of Serenity and Sea of
>Tranquility, with the Seas of Fertility and Nectars and their
>connecting plains forming two elongated prominent "fingers".  In
>fact, in some American Indian folklore these form either the
>head or a rabit when coming up in the East, with the fingers
>being the ears, or to others are a frog, when setting in the
>West, with the fingers representing the legs.

>The proposed map would depict these prominent "fingers" only as
>small dark spots.  To the naked eye, the Seas of Fertility and
>Nectars do not appear as round small spots.  The upper arc might
>match the appearance of Mare Frigoris, the "forehead" of the
>Man, but the three arcs are not obvious to me.

><snip>

>>The circular limb of the moon is not included in the carving. Dr
>>Stooke believes that it may have been drawn on the rock with
>>chalk or with coloured paint.

>In other words, all other possible features, dots, arcs, etc.,
>beyond those shown were not included.  I would think that a
>circle to indicate the shape and boundary of the Moon would be
>necessary.  Seems weak to me.  Take a look yourselves and judge.

>Clear skies,

>Bob Young

Dear Bob:

I just visited the URL ( link ) provided above.

Stop me if I'm wrong, but I take it the figure on the left is a
simplified diagram of the dark parts of the Moon's face; the one
on the right are the cave drawings; the center piece is one
superimposed on the other.

Out of context, the figure on the right (some concentric
arcs and a dot) would not remind me of the Moon at all.

It looks more like a doodle made by a cave man waiting for
dinner; perhaps it was a design for a radical new shelter made
of animal hides.

It could have ceremonial significance, but that's cheap and
easy.   Future archeologists might say that about today's
parking meters.    " A definite totem! "

(Has anyone looked for coin slots in the Easter Island
  "god - statues"?)

Maybe some ancient man was trying to invent the wheel, and just
could not hook the arc segments together properly.

The very very last thing  it reminds of is the Moon.

This sounds like some Hoaglandesque "face on Mars"
sort of wishful thinking to me.    I am reminded of the
Blessed Virgin appearing in stained wall plaster, when
Elvis is unavailable.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch





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                            UFO Desk - Site Adds

From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:24:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 01:07:20 -0400
Subject: UFO Desk - Site Adds


Hi all,

Please visit my humble site. I've recently added another real audio file in
the experiencers section, and several very cool java apps as well. Please
check it out and let me know what you think. I've got some of the strangest
stories on the net on this very cool site.

best,

Paul Williams
Executive Producer UFO Desk
http://www.escape.com/~paulw/ufodesk.html
ICQ#32519151






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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #300

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:01:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 01:02:25 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #300


Apology to MW #300 (For April 24, 1999)

I know a dark Knight of intelligence, friend. Involved to his
neck in anomalous trends he fights the good fight, and he fights
without end for the credence deserved by this thing that he's
in. Dismissed with the fringe, his battle uphill, the
mainstream's avoidance a sad, bitter pill, he strains and he
struggles for reason's fair share; he wants some good answers;
he questions; he dares! _Something's_ occurred that has strained
his credulity. _Something's_ occurred -- to pretend is futility!
The condition is global; it happens, transgender, to folks too
disparate to fake it, remember! I know some myself. Honest folk,
_most_ convincing that they have been TAKEN while TIME has gone
*missing*.

He has his own clarity, his head is a level. Were it me I should
be, I'd think, hammered and beveled. But for all of the
strangeness infecting his life, he seems to make use of its mind
blowing strife. He turns it his way, and attempts to be
positive, his vision is clear, so he dares interrogatives . He's
driven, industrious, and charming when able. He knows what he
wants -- industrious, capable . . . not strident, but ardent to
a fine double stitch. Why, if he were a female -- we'd call him
a bitch! <=D6>.

How does he warrant his furious pace? How does he run, like he
does, this mad race? How does he keep his composure refined in
the face of digressions from purpose he finds?

I can get angry at those that I love; I can lash out and rage if
the push comes to shove. I can hurt feelings to further the ends
I can see in a vision glad fate must portend! I can lose
tolerance! I can lose _sight_ of a good contribution I make to
this fight! But am I forgetting the ones on my team -- the ones
standing by me through nightmare that dream?

He fights draining battles without a reward. You'd think a
Fir-mage would extend him support. You'd think he'd get funding
for rational approaches that eschew new age craziness,
confusers, and hoaxers. A lot like John Ford (?), he goes on
like the bunny, but hopefully stays out of jail -- not funny.
This gives me concern for his strength and intensity, and if he
maintains it too "burn-out" propensity. He is _too_ valuable,
his labor _too_ dear to fail in this time when the truth may be
near. I hope he is resting, I hope he takes stock -- I hope he's
been open to other's strange thoughts. He knows he's not Jesus,
he's got half a brain. I'm hoping he's here, then, to hear the
refrain. I shudder to think of his energy lost. I shudder to
think of that terrible cost! I'm dreading the fracture I'm sure
this would make in the work, the crusade, and to all that's at
stake!

A noble dark knight, he's tormented, Byronic -- accosted,
assailed, by the charmless laconic. This -- knowing he suffers
unjust disrespect. He *knows* some approaches suggested are wet.
I know that his vision is clear and far out, but near in (though
murky) secures the best clout. I'm hoping for victory -- this
quest that he's in. He's a prince, a fine fellow, a leader -- a
friend. I offer support of the best moral kind (as he has his
own quest it is clear I have mine). I mirror his passion! I feel
his creed. I know what _I_ need when I soar and I cleave! _I_ am
enraged at the churlish complacent; _I_ find it hard, friend, to
suffer a fool. _I_ am incensed that we're treated like
mushrooms, and broken on purpose like mistreated tools!

. . . And so hard to find good allies in this struggle we're in.
This --_knowing_ patience bristles when support gets worn and
thin. The efficacious talented are few, and far between, so
support for them is _crucial_ or our QUEST remains a dream.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

How does any ONE of us keep it together, _forgetting_ that some
of this twitchy stuff likely happens? And the point is, is that
we do. No, their justifications for our ignorance have some
other design. Thank God for the courage of the efficacious
talented -- the under appreciated dwindling few we listen for
that truly devote themselves to the big paradigm changing
questions, and have the courage to investigate that anomalous
foam.

Restore John Ford!

--
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more.
Consider Matter, Mind & Movement.
See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration.
Take a ride in the Teleporter.

Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
<Updated 24 April>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.





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   Apr > Apr 25

             Chat this Sunday with Bassett, Bletchman and Bryant

From: Yvonne Hedenland <Vonni_H@email.msn.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:20:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 01:04:51 -0400
Subject: Chat this Sunday with Bassett, Bletchman and Bryant


UFO ballot initiative,  Is the Public Ready?

Lobbyist Stephen Bassett  with Robert Bletchman and Larry
Bryant, veteran Ufologists of MUFON, discussing the MUFON Ballot
initiative.  Listen to their audio interview and join the chat
on Sunday April 25, 1999, 6 PM PT.

http://communities.msn.com/ufo
(follow the CHAT link at this URL for instructions
on how to access our free chat room)

The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC client. The
chat server name is irc.msn.com port 6667 and the room or
channel name is #briefing.

***UFO Community on MSN***
http://communities.msn.com/ufo











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   Apr > Apr 25

                    Spielberg's Abduction Series 'Taken'

From: Stephen Lewis <elfissmiles@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:21:02 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 02:10:09 -0400
Subject: Spielberg's Abduction Series 'Taken'


To clarify info on Spielberg's latest project:

the following is from:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990422/fj.html

Yahoo! News

Thursday April 22, 5:23 am Eastern Time

PRESS DIGEST - Daily Variety - April 22

NEW YORK, April 22 (Reuters) - The following stories
appeared on the front cover of Thursday's Daily Variety:

* Steven Spielberg has agreed to produce 'Taken', a
20-hour miniseries dedicated to alien abductions, for
Barry Diller's Sci-Fi Channel. Spielberg's DreamWorks
Television will produce the miniseries in a joint venture
with USA Networks Inc. (USAI - news), parent of the
Sci-Fi Channel.

------
and more from here:

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/en/story.html?s=v/nm/19990422/en/variety-fr
onted_215.html

Yahoo! News


Entertainment Headlines
Thursday April 22 3:47 AM ET
Daily Variety's Front Page: April 22
HOLLYWOOD (Variety)-Daily Variety's front page--April 22

Headlines:

DILLER LANDS SPIELBERG FOR SCI-FI MINISERIES

NEW YORK (Variety) - Steven Spielberg will exec produce
``Taken,'' an epic 20-hour miniseries focusing on alien
abductions, for Barry Diller's Sci-Fi Channel. Spielberg's
DreamWorks Television will produce the miniseries,
which will be based on reports of UFO landings in New
Mexico dating back to 1947, in a joint venture with USA
Networks, parent of the Sci-Fi Channel.

-----
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/990422/ny_sci_fi__1.html

Thursday April 22, 6:51 pm Eastern Time

Company Press Release

20-Hour Miniseries "Taken" Brings Steven
Spielberg to Sci Fi Channel

NEW YORK--(ENTERTAINMENT WIRE)--April 22, 1999--
Long before Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan,
Steven Spielberg challenged the imaginations of
filmgoers with E.T. and Close Encounters of the Third
Kind, thereby helping to define for generations what
the intergalactic future might hold.

Nearly two decades have passed since audiences
tearfully watched E.T. phone home. Now, Steven
Spielberg makes a new journey, as he joins forces
with SCI FI Channel to return to one of his first loves
-science fiction. In 3Q 2000, Spielberg and
DreamWorks Television will present Taken, a 20-hour
original dramatic event, which will be produced
exclusively for SCI FI. Taken's 20-hour length also
marks it as the most ambitious miniseries ever
produced for broadcast television or cable.

SCI FI was Spielberg's first choice for his return to
the genre which he was so instrumental in shaping.
The channel's renewed commitment to, and
investment in, producing the freshest and most
original sci-fi programming on television has paid off
with breakout ratings in recent months. By the time
Taken airs in 3Q 2000, SCI FI will have more than
doubled its programming budget from '98 -- making it
second only to sister channel USA Network in its
commitment to original series and production for basic
cable in prime. Together, Spielberg, DreamWorks
Television and SCI FI form a unique alliance, as they
usher sci-fi into the coming millennium.

``As a 20-hour miniseries,'' said Spielberg, ``the
project can give us the opportunity to involve viewers
in a way that combines the narrative scope of movies
with the luxury of unfolding that adventure over a
much longer period of time. There clearly was no other
place but SCI FI Channel for a project of this
magnitude. At SCI FI, fans like myself can imagine and
experience the wonders and possibilities of the
science fiction universe.''

Taken is an epic science fiction adventure that weaves
together over 50 years of alien abductions into the
compelling story of one man's experiences. The
miniseries, which begins production this summer,
promises to be one of TV's most ambitious productions
ever. Exploring a series of personal stories and events
which defy the traditional confines of a two-hour
feature film or even a four-hour miniseries, SCI FI will
present this unprecedented 20-hour television
milestone in two-hour installments over a span of ten
days.

SCI FI Channel is a USA Company (NASDAQ:USAI-news)
transmitting fantastic images to over 55 million
human homes. SCI FI features a continuous stream of
cinematic hits, new and original series, and special
events, as well as classic sci-fi, fantasy, and horror
programming. Check out SCIFI.COM, the SCI FI's award-
winning Web site, at www.scifi.com.

Contact:

     USA Network,  New York
     Lana Kim, Consumer, 212/413-5159
     E-mail: lkim@usanetworks.com
               or
     USA Network,  New York
     Kat Stein, Trade, 212/413-5890
     E-mail: kstein@usanetworks.com





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   Apr > Apr 25

                     'Roswell: Aliens Attack' TV Movie?

From: Richard D. Nolane <raynaud@total.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:07:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:35:30 -0400
Subject: 'Roswell: Aliens Attack' TV Movie?


 Dear List,

I have just moved from France to Canada and I'm a new subscriber
to the List.

I'm looking for info about the UPN TV movie 'Roswell: Aliens
Attack'.

I wish to know too if the FOX TV series 'Roswell High' is only a
rumour or a real project.

If someone can help me, I thank him/her very much in advance.


Very sincerely,

RDN





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                     Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:47:35 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:46:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?


>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:57:16 +0800
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: C D Conrad <chyren23@q-net.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?

>>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?
>>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:27:46 +0100

>>My colleague Peter Hough and I investigated an extraordinary
>>abduction that involved a university professor.

>>The witnesses were literally abducted by a flying carpet. I
>>spent much time with the witness and he appeared sincere.

>Ah, yes. Very believable. I have a bridge for sale, Jenny, I
>will await your first bid. <WINK>


Just so it is clear. This was NOT a joke. The case is very real
and Peter and I spent two years working with the witness and
Peter's book documents it over quite a few pages. The flying
carpet reference is part of the case but you need to see it in
contect to understand why it is not as flippant as it appears in
my necessarily brief summary. This case is as credible as any
other abduction I have been associated with and the witness is
in fact rather more trustworthy than most.   What it means is
another matter but this was a sincere reply to the question.

Jenny Randles







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   Apr > Apr 25

                             Stig's Contribution

From: Steve Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:43:14 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:53:48 -0400
Subject: Stig's Contribution


>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Berkeley Professor First Academic Chair Of E.T. Hunt
>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 05:41:47 GMT

>Source: The New York Times News Service via the Deseret News,

>http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,75004861,00.html?

>Stig

Once again, so I won't make the mistake of taking this kind of
contribution for granted, much thanks to Stig Amerose for the
consistent and well selected news article submissions. They are
extremely useful and save me considerable time and effort.

It is so easy to forget that he is taking much time to put these
together and out to the list.

Most grateful,






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              Pre-millennial Tension & Inexplicable Phenomena'

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 01:23:44 GMT
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 04:05:33 -0400
Subject: Pre-millennial Tension & Inexplicable Phenomena'

Source:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk/newsid_327000/327514.stm

Stig

***

BBC News Online: UK

Saturday, April 24, 1999 Published at 15:30 GMT 16:30 UK

Millennium madness comes to UK

**

Poltergeists, UFOs and other unexplained phenomena are on the
increase because of "pre millennial tension", according to
experts who are meeting this weekend.

The Fortean Times, the journal of the unexplained, holds its
"unconvention" at the Commonwealth Institute in London and
expects 14,000 people to come along over the two days.

The convention, dubbed Monsters, Madness and the Millennium, is
believed to be the world's biggest gathering of experts in
unexplained phenomena.

Experts say that, with only eight months to go before the
millennium, reports of strange phenomena from around the world
are on the increase.

The phrase pre millennial tension - or PMT - has been coined to
describe the stress many people are experiencing in the run up
to the year 2000.


Apocalypse now?


Many normally rational people are convinced the world will come
to an end on the millennium.

A member of one of these apocalypse cults is Carlos Roa, the
Argentinian national side's goalkeeper, who has refused to
discuss a new contract with his team, Real Mallorca, because he
says the world is coming to an end.

Daniel Wojcik, an associate professor of folklore at the
University of Oregon, is one of the speakers at the convention.

Mr Wojcik, who has written a book The End of The World As We
Know It, says mankind has always been fascinated with worldly
destruction and odd phenomena.

He told BBC News Online: "The approach of a new millennium has
increased the number of people who believe in a coming
apocalypse."


'Apocalyptic fears are widespread'


Mr Wojcik says opinion polls in the United States suggest
somewhere between 20 and 40% of the population believe
Armageddon is imminent.

He says: "There is nothing in the Bible about the world ending
in the year 2000 but these ideas have grown up as a sort of folk
belief."

Mr Wojcik says there is an interesting dichotomy in that many
millennialists blamed technology and industrial progress but
promulgated their ideas through the Internet.

He says: "Millennialists are not all the same. There are many
different strands of belief.

"Some are very passive and are simply waiting for the return of
the Messiah while others are more aggressive militia groups who
feel they have to do something to bring about Armageddon."


Mass suicides could rise


He says cults such as the Branch Davidians and Heaven's Gate may
have been influenced by millennialist ideas.

But he says: "The millennium is not going to be as violent as
some people think, with mass suicides and such like. But we can
expect to see this sort of stuff on the increase."

Other speakers include Damian Thompson, who will explain the
significance of the millennium and Tony Healy, who has spent
years searching for Australia's answer to the Yeti, the Yowie.

Emmett Sweeney, a self-styled alternative Egyptologist, will
give an intriguing talk entitled Escape from Armageddon: The
True Secret of the Pyramids.

Sunday's speakers include Jan Bondeson, an experts on mythical
creatures such as basilisks and mermaids and Sergio della Sala,
who will explain the "myths of the mind".


Relevant Stories:

*Weird weekend  (24 Apr 99 | UK)
*Crop circle fans caught by the Net  (20 Nov 98 | UK)
*Himalayan climber's abominable sighting  (17 Oct 98 | South Asia)
*UFOs mystify scientists  (01 Jul 98 | Sci/Tech)
*The call of the weird  (25 Apr 98 | UK)


Internet Links:

*The Fortean Times
*Society for Psychical Research
*Koestler Parapsychology Unit


The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites.






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   Apr > Apr 25

                 Fortean Times 'Un-Convention' This Weekend

From: stig.agermose@get2net.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 01:16:12 GMT
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 04:17:54 -0400
Subject: Fortean Times 'Un-Convention' This Weekend


Source: BBC Obline News

http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk/newsid_326000/326858.stm

Stig

***

BBC News Online: UK

Saturday, April 24, 1999

Published at 10:39 GMT 11:39 UK

Weird weekend

**

X-files agents Mulder and Scully may have hung up their holsters
and switched off their huge mobile phones - but interest in the
unexplained is as rampant as ever.

While fads in phenomena have swung through crop circles, monster
cats, aliens and conspiracy theories, one publication has prided
itself on recording "weird news" from around the world.

Founded in 1973, to continue the work of American Charles Fort,
The Fortean Times brings together testimony on everything from
miracle vegetables to monster hunting.

Back in the early 1920s, Mr Fort refused to believe the
contemporary scientific explanations for various phenomena.

He published several books arguing that, if the truth was out
there, then the "experts" were not necessarily getting hold of
it.

The Fortean Times has gone from strength to strength, selling
36,000 copies a month as interest in the unexplained continues
to gather pace.

Its managing editor Jane Watkins says: "People are very strange,
so as long as there are people, there will be material for the
FT.

"We definitely reached a peak with the X-Files, and UFOs were
the thing then.

"There are trends in the unexplained. UFOs were popular, but
since the death of Diana, conspiracy theories are far more
popular.

"Maybe it's because of the millennium, but spiritual things are
getting far more attention at the moment as well."

Ms Watkins says that the publication is currently receiving
increased reports of religious imagery in vegetables, plants and
even freezers.

"Another thing that tends to change," says Jane, "is the way
people interpret the strange thing that they see.

"There's no doubt that people do see strange things - but the
flashing lights in the sky that might once have been thought to
have been dragons were then viewed as fairies, then angels and
now UFOs."

And she says that often, the "normal" explanation for some
phenomena can be stranger than anything paranormal.

She cites a case of a "haunted" beachside car park in California
where vehicle alarms would inexplicably activate, and doors and
windows would open.

The scientific explanation turned out to be that whale sound
from the nearby sea was at exactly the same frequency as that
needed to set off some car security systems.

Over the weekend of 24 and 25 April, the publication is hosting
its sixth annual "Un-convention" in London, entitled Monster
Hunting, Millennium Catastrophes and Alien Abduction.

Australian Tom Healy is to monsters what his compatriot Steve
Irwin is to snakes and crocodiles.

The fearless cryptozoologist is set to give talks at the
convention on the art of stalking fabled beasts - includie the
Yowie, Australia's answer to the Yeti.

He also plans to describe an outbreak of poltergeist activity in
the Australian town of Humpty Doo - where ghosts hurled rocks at
him.

Spokeswoman Margie Foskin said: "The Yowie looks more like a
gorilla than the normal images of the Yeti, but basically it's
the same big hairy creature.

"Tom Healy will give a general overview of the Yowie phenomenon,
recount some 'normal' Yowie sightings, then focus on some 'high
strangeness' cases."

Closer to home, perhaps, will be discussions on beliefs
surrounding the turn of the millennium.

Ms Watkins said apocolyptic beliefs about the end of the
millennium worry a lot of people, but are only based on the
Christian calander, which had no year 0.

She said: "That means that the millennium is not actually on 31
December, 1999.

"There was an advert encouraging people to visit Egypt recently,
which said visit Egypt in its 5th millennium - I think that puts
the issue into context.

"A more real concern about the millennium could be the year 2000
bug. But again, things will start going wrong with that from
September, not December.

"We are already aware of computer people who have headed to the
hills because they know what chaos could happen. I certainly
won't be flying around that time."

Another feature of the convention will be live seances, hosted
by magician and doctor of psychology, Richard Wiseman.

Up to 30 people will be invited to sit in a circle, hold hands
and wish for luminous objects to levitate and move.

Dr Wiseman said: "The purpose of the seances is two-fold.
Firstly we want to see if anything does happen - if there's any
movement of objects.

"We will be filming in infra-red throughout the day to record
anything that happens, and we will also be speaking to the
people who took part to see what they think happened.

"We will also be showing people how trickery and suggestion are
used to make them believe they are seeing something that they
are not."

Other talks include expos=E9s on Egyptian mythology, science and
magic, and psychic ability experiments.

The Un-convention takes place at the Commonwealth Institute,
High Street Kensington, London on April 24 and 25. Doors open at
10.30am. For further information call 01795 414925.


Relevant Stories:

*Mind machine tests UK's psychic powers  (19 Mar 99 | Set99)
*Crop circle fans caught by the Net  (20 Nov 98 | UK)
*Hunters try to bag Dartmoor lion  (20 Nov 98 | UK)
*Aliens: a conspiracy out of this world  (25 Sep 98 | Conspiracy -
Radio 5 Live)


Internet Links:

*Fortean Times


The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites.







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                          Participatory Opportunity

From: Mike Jamieson <MDJ50@webtv.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:08:11 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 04:25:20 -0400
Subject: Participatory Opportunity


Larry Bryant and Robert Bletchman are coordinating an effort to
place on some state ballots an initiative proclaiming (if
passed) the desire of the voters that Congress convene open
hearings on UFO-related issues.

The MUFON board of directors recently voted to endorse this
effort and today the ORTK board of directors voted their support
and willingess to help.

Help will be needed, down the road, in gathering the signatures
of registered voters needed to qualify the initiative for the
ballot in the states targeted (out of the possible 16 states
allowing the initiative process).

Organizing committees will also be needed.  Larry Bryant can be
reached at overtci@bellatlantic.net

Robert Bletchman will soon be online.

Go to:

http://communities.msn.com/ufo/ballot.asp

to read text of the initiative.

And, for more info:






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   Apr > Apr 26

                   Re: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed

From: Nathan Ranger <netrangr@ufo.net>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:17:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:08:29 -0400
Subject: Re: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed


>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 03:35:51 -0700
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed


>>>From: Steven J. Dunn <SDunn@logicon.com>
>>>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:06:28 -0700
>>>Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:37:41 -0400
>>>Subject: BBC: Prehistoric Moon Map Unearthed

>>>Source: <http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_325000/325290.stm>

>>>Original Publication Date 1999/04/22 04:07:21

>>>By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse

>>>A map of the Moon 10 times older than anything known before has
>>>been found carved into stone at one of Ireland's most ancient
>>>and mysterious Neolithic sites.

<snip>

>This sounds like some Hoaglandesque "face on Mars"
>sort of wishful thinking to me. I am reminded of the
>Blessed Virgin appearing in stained wall plaster, when
>Elvis is unavailable.

>Best wishes

>- Larry Hatch

All paranormal insults aside, this looks like a perfect case of someone
calling out to the world: "I Want To Believe!" After all, it probably
pays better that way.

I'm sorry, but this Dr. whoever may be good at going to school & taking
tests but, as with most PHDs that I've known, has trouble in the
application area.

The Caveman Doodle refered to below really doesn't resemble the moon at
all. More like some prehistoric animal or maybe the rings around the sun
as it sets over the peak of an active volcano.

And, as far as the last guy who slammed the "Face Of Mars" thing, I
would like to say: "At least the fact of mars looks like a face, not a
doodle."

-Nathan Ranger (NetRanger)







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   Apr > Apr 26

                    This Week on the UFO Community on MSN

From: Diana Botsford <diana_botsford@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:51:41 PDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:14:03 -0400
Subject: This Week on the UFO Community on MSN


The UFO Community on MSN is available at
http://communities.msn.com/ufo/default.asp. All chats are
accessible by using either our built in chat page, MS Chat or
any IRC client.  The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com and
the channel/room name is #briefing.

========================================
***UFO Ballot Initiative
Is the Public Ready?
Chat with Ballot Authors Bryant and Bletchman
Sunday at 6pm, PT

Bob Bletchman and Larry Bryant, veteran Ufologists of MUFON, are
ready to start the process. Are you? Listen to their audio
interview and join the chat on Sunday at 6pm, PT.

DETAILS: In a bold effort to gain congressional attention, these
two gentlemen have drafted a ballot initiative for next year's
elections in various states. Just recently approved by the MUFON
Board of Directors, the initiative calls for an end to the
official secrecy on UFOs and represents a tremendous grass roots
movement for the UFO Field. Join us as we discuss the road ahead
in this bold political campaign.

What is perhaps most fascinating about this initative is the
responses from the field of Ufology. Researchers long known for
their skepticism of most cases, are in full support of the
ballot whereas those that have been well known for their work
supporting the phenomenon - such as Stanton Friedman, are
opposed. You can read additional comments regarding the ballot
at our site at http://communities.msn.com/ufo and in our main
newsgroup at news://msnnews.msn.com/msn.onstage.watchfire.bbs

Take a moment to read the actual ballot initiative then join us
in chat!

For more information regarding MUFON and the initiative, we
recommend visiting MUFON's site at http://www.mufon.com.


***Chat with UFO Researcher Ted Oliphant
Tuesday at 6pm, PT
Cattle Mutliations investigator and MUFON region coordinator,
Ted's research into the cattle mutilations puzzle has provided
fresh territory for researchers and critics alike. He'll join
the UFO Community on April 27th to discuss his controversial
theories and to also bring us up to date on the recent
Educational Conference held in San Francisco regarding UFO
investigative methods. Join us.

You can visit Ted's site at http://www.realityb.com

=========================================

Chats This Week at the UFO Community on MSN:


SATURDAYS - General Discussion - 6pm, PT
SUNDAYS - The Politics of UFOs - 6pm, PT
TUESDAYS - This Week in the News - 6pm, PT
WEDNESDAYS - Ancient Connections- 7pm, PT
THURSDAYS - UFO Skeptics - 7pm, PT
FRIDAYS - The Science of UFOs - 8pm, PT
SATURDAYS - Abductions - 1pm, PT - 9pm, GMT

Our chat room is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for
discussion relating to any UFO issues.

========================================

***Volunteers Wanted:

1)Our Publicity Department is in need of enthusiastic
individuals who would like a free MSN account in exchange for
assistance.

2)Must know basic HTML.  You will receive a free account with
MSN in exchange for helping out.

=======================================

We look forward to seeing you online.

Diana Botsford
Publisher/Forum Manager
UFO Forum
http://communities.msn.com/UFO

- - - - - -
"To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought . . .
To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield."
Tennyson's Ulysses



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   Apr > Apr 26

                          BWW Media Alert 19990425

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 10:49:05 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:24:51 -0400
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19990425


Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert Current Edition

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A
HREF=3D"http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin
</A>
<A
HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/bufosweirdworld">Lin=
k
to Amazon.com
</A>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this=

edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to
http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make=

sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

April 25, 1999

Well, I've definitely expanded my non-USA coverage.  So far, reaction has
been good, so I'm sticking with it.  As always, feel free to let me know=
 what
you think.

On to the listings: Times are generally Pacific.

LIVE EVENTS (lectures, etc.)

What: HEARTLAND ENCOUNTERS CONFERENCE
When: Sunday, April 25
Where: Parkway Chateau, 12304 75th Street, Kenosha, WI. I-94 & Highway=
 50
Who: LLOYD PYE (hairy bipeds, alternative history) (
<A
HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0966013433/bufosweirdworld">E=
very
thing You Know Is Wrong, Vol. 1, paperback)
</A>
DOLORES CANNON (ET channel) (
<A
HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1886940045/bufosweirdworld">T=
he
Custodians: Beyond Abduction (paperback)
</A>
DIANDRA (channel)
CHRISTOPHER DUNN (Egyptian Technology) (
<A
HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1879181509/bufosweirdworld">T=
he
Giza Power Plant: Technologies of Ancient Egypt (paperback)
</A>
JEFF SAINIO (MUFON photoanalyst, with Israeli UFO footage)
Cost: $20.00
Contact Information: E-mail (<A
HREF=3D"mailto:thomreed60@yahoo.com">mailto:thomreed60@yahoo.com
</A>) or call Thom Reed312-661-9172, or call Bonnie Hughes at 847-838-0086.=


RADIO

Eddie Middleton's very popular show in the South, Nightsearch, has a website=

at
<A HREF=3D"http://listen.to/nightsearch">http://listen.to/nightsearch<;/A>.=

Unfortunately, no streaming audio.

Don Ecker, of UFO MAGAZINE, host STRANGE DAZE on the Liberty Works. It can=
 be
heard on streaming Real Audio at
<A
HREF=3D"http://www.broadcast.com/radio/talk/lwrn">http://www.broadcast.com/r=
adio
/talk/lwrn
</A>.

Mike Jarmus, REALITY AND BEYOND, 7:00 PM Sundays,
<A=
 HREF=3D"http://spectrum.orn.com/omega.ram">http://spectrum.orn.com/omega.ra=
m
</A>.  Streaming audio available
Sunday, April 25, 7:00 PM, Dr. Bruce Cornet (Cydonia, UFOs, abductions)
Next Sunday, May 2, Lloyd Pye(
<A
HREF=3D"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0966013433/bufosweirdworld">E=
very
thing You Know Is Wrong, Vol. 1, paperback)
</A>)

ART BELL - DREAMLAND
Currently, the most popular talk show on this area.
<A HREF=3D"http://www.artbell.com/">http://www.artbell.com/<;/A>. Live=
 streaming
audio (and video) available.

JEFF RENSE - SIGHTINGS
Quite simply, this is my favorite show on which to appear. Jeff is
well-versed on the topics, but likes to let the guests speak. You can hear=

Real Audio of the show, and there are archives as well. Go to
<A HREF=3D"http://www.sightings.com/">http://www.sightings.com/<;/A> for more=

information. The show is on at 7:00 PM Pacific Monday through Saturday, and=

8:00 PM Pacific on Sunday. You can hear it anywhere through your computer.=
 To
subscribe to the Jeff Rense Weekly E-news (which includes articles), e-mail=

(subject: Subscribe)
<A HREF=3D"mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net">mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net</A>.

Sunday, April 25, 8:00 PM, Michael Lindemann, Weekly UFO/ET Update (repeat=
 of
4/14)
Monday, April 26, 7:00 PM, Carol Rainey, media suppression of UFOs
Tuesday, April 27, 7:00 PM, monthly Canadian UFO report
Wednesday, April 28, 7:00 PM, Michael Lindemann, Weekly UFO/World report;
Robert McBratney on Mother Shipton's prophecies
Friday, April 30, psychic Elizabeth Baron
Saturday May 8, 7:00 PM, David John Oates Reverse Speech Show

TELEVISION

A&E (USA)

Sunday, April 25, 2:00 PM, THE UNEXPLAINED: THE CURSE OF KING TUT
Thursday, April 29, 9:00 PM, THE UNEXPLAINED: CIVIL WAR GHOSTS
Friday, April 30, 1:00 AM, THE UNEXPLAINED: CIVIL WAR GHOSTS
Next Sunday, May 2, 1:00 PM, THE UNEXPLAINED: BETWEEN LIFE AND DEATH
(near-death experiences)

CHANNEL 4 (Europe)

Sunday, April 25, 4:25 AM (GMT+1), DPROGRAM (This series features interviews=

with such people as Nick Pope)

 THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL (USA)

Thursday, April 29, 10:00 PM, MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED: STRANGE BEINGS=

AND UFOS (includes abductions; Loch Ness Monster; and Yeti)
Friday, April 30, 1:00 AM, MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED: STRANGE BEINGS AND=

UFOS (includes abductions; Loch Ness Monster; and Yeti)
Saturday, May 1, 1:00 PM, MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED: STRANGE BEINGS AND=

UFOS (includes abductions, Loch Ness Monster, and Yeti

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL (Europe)

Sunday, April 25, 9:00 PM (GMT+1), BEYOND THE TRUTH (THE MUTILATION FILES)=

(Dutch): Cattle mutilations in the USA

FOX SOAP TALK (Australia)

Thursday, April 29, 8:30 PM (Time zone unknown), THE UNEXPLAINED: UFO CULTS=

(I assume this is what runs on A&E in the USA as well)
Friday, April 30, 12:30 AM (Time zone unknown=85the listing I checked has=
 this
as Thursday, but I think it's an overnight), THE UNEXPLAINED: UFO CULTS (I=

assume this is what runs on A&E in the USA as well)
Friday, April 30, 3:30 AM (Time zone unknown=85the listing I checked has=
 this
as Thursday, but I think it's an overnight), THE UNEXPLAINED: UFO CULTS (I=

assume this is what runs on A&E in the USA as well)

THE ODYSSEY CHANNEL (Australia)

Thursday, April 29, 9:30 PM, MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED (Episode 2:=
 STRANGE
BEINGS AND UFOS, narrated by James Coburn=85I assume this is the one running=
 on
THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL in the USA)

THE SCIENCE CHANNEL

The new schedule (since December 28, 1998) is weird programming for an hour=

each at 3:00 AM, 11:00 AM,and 7:00 PM. Alternating shows are: INTO THE
UNKNOWN and ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE. They also run a Roswell=

show now every other week (it's probably the same show every time) at 4:00=
 AM
and noon on Sundays.

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL (US Feed)

Tuesday, April 27, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5068 (Texas haunting; Nazi=

UFOs; alien abductions; plant communications; Korean UFOs)
Wednesday, April 28, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5069 (psychic detective;=

Atlantis; alchemy; haunting; ley lines; divination)
Thursday, April 29, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #5070 (New York UFO; ghost=

films; psychics; earthquake predictions)
Friday, April 30, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #3001 (poltergeists; UFOs)
Next Tuesday, May 4, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #3002 (haunting; UFOs;
angels; cattle mutilations; "new species")
Next Wednesday, May 5, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #3003 (Area 51; animal=

communication; "ice circles"; psychic detective; alien abductions)
Next Thursday, May 6, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #3004 (bigfoot,=
 near-death
experience)
Next Friday, May 7, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS: EPISODE #3005 (Tunguska event;
near-death experiences; spontaneous human combustion; hauntings)

SPACECAST (Canada)

Sunday, April 25, 7:30 PM (Time zone unknown), UFO FILES AND PARANORMAL
PHENOMENA
Monday, April 26, 4:30 AM, (Time zone unknown), UFO DIARIES
Saturday, May 1, 9:00 PM, (Time zone unknown), ANIMAL X-FILES (includes an=

Irish black cat and a Turkish lake monster, presumably Lake Van)
Next Sunday, May 2, 7:30 PM (Time zone unknown), UFO FILES AND PARANORMAL
PHENOMENA
Next Monday, May 3, 4:30 AM, (Time zone unknown), UFO DIARIES

SYNDICATED (USA)

MONTEL WILLIAMS, Thursday, April 29, psychic Sylvia Browne
REAL TV, Monday, April 26: includes "psychic scam"

3SAT (Europe)

Wednesday, April 28, 3:15 PM (GMT+1), COM.P@SS, UFO websites

___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =3Deverything=3D seemed normal, that =3Dwould=3D be=
 weird!"
____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to=
 Bufo's
WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if there is=

something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the
week before.
_____________________________

Back to <A HREF=3D"http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html">BufoCalvin'=
s
Home Page
</A>
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</A>
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                     Re: Spielberg Abduction Miniseries

From: John Ratcliff <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:22:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:04:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Spielberg Abduction Miniseries


>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 03:45:53 -0700
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Spielberg Abduction Miniseries


>Yet, he keeps returning to the same theme..  ETs, abductions,
>UFO related stuff. Why?


Larry, don't search for a mystery where none exists.  Millions
of people are interested in UFOs, have watched a UFO special,
read some UFO books, met and spoken to UFO witnesses, and may
have had a UFO experience of their own. Spielberg has had a
paranormal bent throughout his entire career.  From Poltergeist
on down.  Jacques Vallee bust Spielbergs chops over the 'loving
space brothers' presentation in 'Close Encounters' so he
probably wants to finally provide a little counterbalance.  Who
knows, maybe Spielberg is a closet contactee.

The bottom line is that Spielberg is a vocal paranormal and UFO
enthusiast and the fact that he continues to explore this
subject matter in his medium is no mystery at all.

John





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                     Re: Spielberg Abduction Miniseries

From: Philip Mantle - UFO <pmufo@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 01:25:58 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:12:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Spielberg Abduction Miniseries


>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:21:35 -0500
>Subject: Spielberg Abduction Miniseries
>From: Stephen MILES Lewis <elfis@io.com>
>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>

>Considering past discussions on Spielbergs original horror
>concepts for E.T., thot my fellow listers would want to know
>about this.

>SMiles

>-----

>Move Over, Mulder, Here Comes Spielberg

<snip>

I know there are many movie buffs out there among you. I'd
therefore like to ask if anyone can supply me with:

Steve Spielberg's production company snail mail address, phone,
fax and e-mail, and also that of Barry Diller as mentioned
below. I know it's a long shot but I just thought I'd try and
get a bit more information on this for the magazine I work for
here in the UK (Quest Magazine).

If anyone can help with this request I'd greatly appreciate it
if they could reply to me direct at: pmufo@dial.pipex.com

For those that are interested, I have just completed writing a
6,500 word feature on the 'Tent Footage' hoax. This includes
quotes and comments from all of the main players. A lot of what
I have written has not been seen before and it tells the whole
story, it even offers people the opportunity to obtain a video
showing the whole tent footage and interviews with some of those
who took part in hoaxing it. This is not on sale by Ray Santili
or myself, but from one of those 'involved'.

This feature will be published in Italian and Spanish UFO
magazines but UFO Magazine in the USA turned it down (without
seeing it I might add). I shall be mailing  copies to various
other publications in different parts of the world but I will
not be releasing it on the internet.

If there are any US magazine editors out there who are
interested in this feature then please get in touch with me.


Many thanks,

Philip Mantle.





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                          Re: First 'Grey' Report?

From: Jesus Millan Arias <jesusmillan@mx3.redestb.es>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:19:55 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:24:09 -0400
Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?


Hi Errol, hi all.

Many thanks to Larry, Diane and Jerry,

Thanks for your information. It is very good, but I'm looking
for stories or 'tales' with not only "dwarfs" (like the two
first reports from Larry). The report from Jerry is very
interesting and close to my interest but it lacks some physical
features.

I know ancient descriptions of bizarre dwarf-beings in some
cultures (p.ex Jinnas or Irish Little People), but I would like
to know when the was first (pre-60's) description of a 'typical'
grey: big black slanted eyes, big inverted-pear head, "dwarf",
thin legs, thin mouth........

In this sense, perhaps the best information that you gave me, it
seems, comes from the Australian aborigine story even when the
description (first written by Larry and later by Diane) doesn=B4t
state all of the many physical attributes 'typical' of Greys.

I think it should be ancient 'tales' (perhaps picked by
anthropologists) where there are reports of presences (with
better physical descriptions, similar to greys) of these beings
in ancient cultures.

Thank you again.

Jesus








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                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300

From: Rebecca <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:59:03 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:26:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300

>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:01:14 -0500
>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #300

> Apology to MW #300 (For April 24, 1999)

Congratulations Alfred on 300 "Odd Odes".

Keep 'em coming!

Best,





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                   Re: 'Roswell: Aliens Attack' TV Movie?

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:24:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:17:10 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Roswell: Aliens Attack' TV Movie?


>From: Richard D. Nolane <raynaud@total.net>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Roswell: Aliens Attack TV Movie
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:07:31 -0500

>Dear List,

>I have just moved from France to Canada and I'm a new subscriber
>to the List.

>I'm looking for info about the UPN TV movie 'Roswell: Aliens
>Attack'.

Hi Richard.

I have the movie you are looking for.  It is in the NTSC format.
If you have purchased a new VCR here recently, I can make you a
copy of the tape.

I'm sorry, but I don't have the means to convert it to PAL
format at this time.

>I wish to know too if the FOX TV series 'Roswell High' is only a
>rumour or a real project.

>If someone can help me, I thank him/her very much in advance.


Sorry, I don't have the answer to that question. I have heard
that also, but I don't know.

REgards, Mike

 Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
 ICQ#:7508455
 BBS: (502) 683-3026
 Fax: (502) 686-7394
 Home: (502) 683-6811





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                          UFO Desk Updates 04-25-99

From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:08:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:23:36 -0400
Subject: UFO Desk Updates 04-25-99



Hello all,

I would like to invite you to drop by UFO Desk Online and check
out new additions to site.

Added Sunday 25th April, are three interviews. Dr. Jacobs on his
book the Threat, Debra Lindemann CHT, Debra and husband Michael
are CNI News. And also putting up interview with Steven Duncan
of American UFO News. All three interviews are available as
downloadable files in the Authors section of UFO Desk.

UFO Desk is now anfyjavy enhanced. Please enable your java
engines to see incredible action on all UFO Desk pages.

Paul Williams
Executive Producer UFO Desk
WBAI NY 99.5
http://www.escape.com/~paulw/ufodesk.html
Long Live Samori Marksman Hero of the People!
ICQ#32519151





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                   Re: 'Roswell: Aliens Attack' TV Movie?

From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:32:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:30:35 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Roswell: Aliens Attack' TV Movie?


>From: Richard D. Nolane <raynaud@total.net>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Roswell: Aliens Attack TV Movie
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:07:31 -0500


Warning Will Robinson,

Anything that shows up on UPN should be taken for what it is. At
it's best UPN is entertaining, at it's worst it's "Incident at
Lake County". Be careful what you take into your head.


Paul Williams
Executive Producer UFO Desk
http://www.escape.com/~paulw/ufodesk.html
Long Live Samori Marksman Hero of the People!
ICQ#32519151





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                                 'Abducted!'

From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:44:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:34:55 -0400
Subject: 'Abducted!'


Dear list,

Three men, two women and an alien all in one body. If you're in
the New York area, please come Thursday eight PM to Solo Arts
Group, 136 W. 17th St. Address could be wrong so pls call ahead.

I experienced this play last week, came from Newark NJ to check
it out. Was very glad I did. Performance is solo act. You're at a
top secret government briefing.

Interview with author Michael Belfiore will air on UFO Desk
Monday morning around one am. That interview will be digitized
and placed on UFO Desk Online by mid-week. Feel free to download
it, and enjoy.

UFO Desk, with some of the strangest stories on the net.
Download the stories, and while your waiting check out the great
java graphics on many of my pages. Don't miss bottom of upcoming
show page.

Thanks,

Paul Williams
Executive Producer UFO Desk
http://www.escape.com/~paulw/ufodesk.html
Long Live Samori Marksman Hero of the People!
ICQ#32519151





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                AUFORN [OZ] Looking For Area Representatives

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:35:38 +1000
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:00:29 -0400
Subject: AUFORN [OZ] Looking For Area Representatives


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail  tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian Research Network Hot Line Number
                     1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************

The Australian UFO Research Network a non-profit organization

Is looking for area representatives to investigate UFO and
Paranormal activities in all Australian states.

You _must_ have some knowledge and a willingness to explore this
baffling mystery.

Applicants must reside in Australia

Be able to be contacted via E-mail or Telephone & Fax

Be willing to share information and report to a network of 58
Australian UFO Researchers.

If you're interested for more details contact

Diane Harrison
E -mail: tkbnetw@fan.net.au
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Founder of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia





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              Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'

From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:42:54 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:06:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'


>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:08:13 -0700
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'


>I cannot say William Lyne his all the bases in his rant quoted
>above.

>He seems to have invented some new ones, well worthy of the
>irrepressible Weekly World News.

>One in particular has me howling,  how the 'illuminati' (or
>whoever) 'edited' Maxwell's equations to keep certain
>information secret, with the help of the FBI !

>24 Nazi submarines off US shores with nuclear missiles all
>through WW 2 is another good one, especially the part where they
>all scuttled themselves ( officers, men and all ) at the end of
>the war.

>Hitler would really be pissed if he could see that.


Dear Larry,

While I'm happy to provide you a service of livening up your
otherwise dull weekend, please do investigate "Operation
Paperclip", "MK-Ultra" and Charles Smith's Softwars
(http://www.softwar.net) site.  You may find Truth is indeed
stranger than fiction.

Don

---

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson





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              UFOR: Research Institute on Anomalous Phenommena

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:49:34 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:09:53 -0400
Subject: UFOR: Research Institute on Anomalous Phenommena

From: riap777@chat.ru

Dear Colleague,

My name is Alexander Beletsky. I am Vice-Director of Research
Institute on Anomalous Phenomena (RIAP) - an independent
scientific- research body, established in Kharkov (Ukraine) a
few years ago. We aim at scientific studies in the fields of the
UFO problem and the SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence) question. The Institute makes its investigations
in close collaboration with the CIS Academy of Cosmonautics and
Russian Academy of Sciences. Please find here attached (as
Appendix I) a RIAP Information Leaflet, describing the
Institute's research programs in some detail.

To inform the international ufological community about the
results of investigations that are conducted by RIAP specialists
and other scientists in the territory of the former Soviet
Union, we started, in 1994, a special periodical: newsletter
RIAP Bulletin (RB). It is the ONLY serious anomalistic
periodical in the Commonwealth of Independent States published
IN ENGLISH. There appear in RB research articles, short
communications, book reviews, letters to the Editor, etc.

RB Vol. 1, Nos. 1-4 - Vol. 4, Nos. 1-3 have been printed and
sent to subscribers. They contain, in particular, the papers
"Post-Soviet Ufology: a View from Inside" and "Alternative
Science?", by V.V.Rubtsov; "UFOs as Objects of Study by
Terrestrial Physics", by V.A.Buerakov; "Search for Alien
Artifacts on the Moon: A Justification", by A.V.Arkhipov; "UFOs:
a Possible Mechanism of Formation, Behavior and Environmental
Impact", by V.I.Mazhuga; "The Petrozavodsk Phenomenon", by
L.M.Gindilis & Y.K.Kolpakov; "The Black Ball: a Supposed
Extraterrestrial Artifact", by V.N.Fomenko; "A Second UFO
Landing on the River Mzha", by a group of RIAP scientists, and
others. We have also published the first really comprehensive
survey of anomalous features of the famous Tunguska explosion
("The Tunguska Meteorite: A Dead-Lock or the Start of a New
Stage of Inquiry?"), written by the leading Russian specialist
in this problem - Nikolay V. Vasilyev, Member of Academy.

RIAP Bulletin is published four times per year. Subscription
rates: a life-long subscription - $100; 12 issues (three years)
- $50; 8 issues (two years) - $35; 4 issues (one year) - $20.
Airmail postage included. Back issues are still available in
limited quantities ($5 per issue, $50 a whole set - ten issues).

If you are interested in subscribing to RIAP Bulletin, please
let me know. I and my colleagues would be happy to inform you
about advances and prospects of ufological studies in this part
of the world. There will appear in the next RB issues, in
particular, the following papers: "A Possible Genetic Trace of
the Tunguska Catastrophe of 1908", by Y.G.Rychkov; "UFOs: False
and Genuine", by the Russian academic UFO expert Y.V.Platov;
"Did the Maori Know About the Rings of Jupiter?", by
Y.N.Morozov, and many others.

With all my best wishes and warmest regards, I remain,

Sincerely yours,

Alexander V. Beletsky,
M.A., Vice-Director, RIAP

================

Appendix I

     RESEARCH INSTITUTE ON ANOMALOUS PHENOMENA, Kharkov, Ukraine

     The principal trends of researches of the institute in the
     UFO field are as follows: creation of an efficient system
     of reconstruction of a real anomalous event on the basis of
     witnesses' testimonies; formation of a unified CIS UFO data
     base (in collaboration with the Expert Group on Anomalous
     Atmospheric Phenomena of the Russian Academy of Sciences)
     and a computer expert system to identify genuine UFOs
     (GUFOs); development of physical models of GUFOs;
     monitoring of a place of recurrent UFO landings on the
     river Mzha, near Kharkov; studies in the hidden history of
     Soviet ufology.

     In the SETI field, there was realized, under the guidance
     of Alexey V. Arkhipov, phase I of the program "Search for
     Alien Artifacts on the Moon" (SAAM) and its results were
     presented on the pages of RIAP Bulletin. Besides, we have
     been examining some enigmatic finds that can be considered
     candidate extraterrestrial artifacts (ancient, or not so
     ancient). These are the so-called "Kassimov ball" - a small
     (diameter some 4.5 cm) black ball of unknown origin, found
     in Central Russia in 1983 on the depth 7 meters, in a layer
     of pure red clay, - and the remains of a strange object
     that obviously originated from space and fell down near
     Kharkov in 1994 (judging from its chemical composition, it
     is neither a meteorite, nor terrestrial space junk).

     The institute pays considerable attention to the problem of
     the Tunguska explosion of 1908. We are studying statistical
     parameters of the forest fall area, as well as the
     biogeochemical elemental and isotopic anomalies and
     population-genetic effects, revealed in the area of the
     catastrophe. A state-of-the-art collection of research
     papers on the Tunguska problem is now under preparation.

     The Scientific Council and Advisory Board of the Institute
     include such Russian and Ukrainian specialists in the UFO
     problem and SETI field as Dr. E.A.Ermilov (specialist in
     radio detection of aerial anomalous phenomena), Dr.
     V.N.Fomenko (investigator of the famous Vashka find, as
     well as other supposed ET artifacts), Y.A.Fomin (doyen of
     UFO studies in Russia), Dr. L.M.Gindilis (astronomer and
     SETI expert), Dr. Y.V.Platov (Vice-Chairman of the Academic
     UFO Study Group), Dr. V.K.Zhuravlev (investigator of the
     Tunguska explosion), and others. The Advisory Board
     comprehends also a group of well-known Western scientists,
     scholars and engineers - V.-J.Ballester Olmos (Spain), Dr.
     T.E.Bullard (USA), Dr. R.F.Haines (USA), Dr. A.Meessen
     (Belgium), et al. Dr. Vladimr V. Rubtsov, Full Member of
     the CIS Academy of Cosmonautics and one of pioneers of
     ufological studies in the former USSR, is Director of RIAP.

Institute mailing address:

RIAP, P.O.Box 4684, 310022 Kharkov-22, Ukraine.

Internet e-mail address:

<riap777@chat.ru>;

Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/1527/

===========================================================





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                        States Compete for Spaceports

From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:14:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:23:46 -0400
Subject: States Compete for Spaceports

 States Compete for Spaceports

 .c The Associated Press

  By PAULINE ARRILLAGA

 FREEPORT, Texas (AP) -- When Fred Welch surveys 1,000 acres of
prairie near the Texas coast, he thinks not of the land before
him but of the stars above.

 Welch has a vision for this stretch of soil about an hour south
of Houston. He sees a spaceport, with rocketships coming and
going as easily as 747s at an airport.

 It's a vision shared by Andy Poole in Montana and William
Dettmer in New Mexico, who both have several thousand of acres
available.

 They all are competitors in a new space race, where the prize
is a slice of a multibillion-dollar industry -- launching cargo
into orbit -- that could provide thousands of jobs and create a
new hub in the next era of space transportation.

 "This will just be the start of a space enterprise -- a new
Canaveral, so to speak," says Dettmer, chairman of the New
Mexico Space Commission.

 "A lot of states are trying to get into the wave of the future.
If you have it, we believe people will come -- like a field of
dreams."

 Spaceports would be home to reusable space vehicles intended to
launch telecommunications satellites and other freight at a
fraction of today's cost: $1,000 a pound compared with the
current $10,000 a pound.

 The so-called space planes would feature more efficient
engines, lighter fuel tanks and more durable thermal insulation
than today's launch vehicles. More importantly, they would have
no throwaway parts -- saving money and turnaround time.

 Today's space shuttles discard fuel tanks and rocket boosters.
Every time a shuttle launches, for example, the external fuel
tank and two solid-fuel rocket boosters are discarded. The
boosters are recovered and used again, but only after costly
refurbishment.

 With an estimated 1,700 satellites being prepared for launch
over the next decade, at least six private companies are
designing reusable space planes that they hope will become the
transportation system of choice in the 21st century.

 If the vehicles work as well as hoped, they could ferry
supplies to the International Space Station and eventually
replace the shuttle.

 "We have to at least start demonstrating technology leading to
a vehicle that could reduce the cost of getting into space,"
says Jim Cast, a spokesman for the National Aeronautics and
Space Administration.

 Of the reusable vehicles under development, probably the
best-known is Lockheed Martin's VentureStar, a wedge-shaped
spaceship designed to lift more than 50,000 pounds of payload
into orbit.

 In 1996, NASA awarded the company a $900 million contract to
build a half-scale prototype known as the X-33, scheduled for
test flights next year. If all goes well, VentureStar could be
in operation by 2004.

 In all, 15 states are pitching 31 potential sites for
spaceports to serve as homes for VentureStar. Besides Texas,
Montana and New Mexico, they are Arizona, California, Florida,
Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South
Carolina, Utah, Virginia and Washington.

 Lockheed Martin plans to choose two sites late next year.

 "Whoever establishes itself as the commercial space
transportation hub, it's going to be the major place of
operations for decades to come," says Tom Moser, a former NASA
executive who heads the Texas Aerospace Commission.

 With three Texas sites under consideration, Welch -- who heads
an economic development group in the Freeport area -- is working
with Moser and officials from the other sites to obtain $1.3
million from the Legislature to help the state compete.

 They also are pushing legislation that would allow a county or
city to create an economic authority to foster spaceport
development.

 In Montana, legislators have exempted VentureStar from business
equipment taxes and provided funds toward spaceport
infrastructure, says Poole, deputy director of the state
Commerce Department.

 New Mexico has set aside millions of dollars to obtain land and
conduct environmental studies should it be chosen as a site.

 Several states, including Florida and California, already have
licensed, commercial spaceports. But because vehicles such as
VentureStar would have no expendable parts, they don't have to
take off from coastal launch pads.

 That, says Dettmer, gives inland states with little or no space
industry presence a chance to break into the market.

 "As we move from government space into commercial space, we're
looking at a whole new paradigm, and I think a lot of states are
interested in latching onto that," he says.

 AP-NY-04-26-99 0504EDT

  Copyright 1998 The Associated Press.  The information
contained in the AP news report may not be published,
broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without  prior





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   Apr > Apr 26

                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:35:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:27:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300

>Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:59:03 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Rebecca <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:01:14 -0500
>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #300

>>Apology to MW #300 (For April 24, 1999)

>Congratulations Alfred on 300 "Odd Odes".

>Keep 'em coming!

>Best,
>Rebecca

>[Hear, hear! Many thanks Al for the conscience-ness --ebk]

Thank you my dear -- _and_ gracious sir.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com
--
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more.
Consider Matter, Mind & Movement.
See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration.
Take a ride in the Teleporter.

Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
<Updated 24 April>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.





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   Apr > Apr 27

                   The Millennium Report - April 26, 1999

From: Paul Anderson - TMP/CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:40:13 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:37:46 -0400
Subject: The Millennium Report - April 26, 1999


The Millennium Report
News and Updates from The Millennium Project

April 26, 1999

_____________________________


NEWS OF THE WEEK

* Spielberg to Produce Miniseries on Alien
   Abductions
* UFO Crash Caught on Film?
* BBC: Is Anybody Out There?
* UFO Roundup 4.16 - April 26, 1999
* Filer's Files #16 - April 23, 1999
* Crop Circle Updates from England
* Update on Mystery Skull from The Starchild Projec
* Ancient Stargate Found in Peru?
* Nostradamus' Predictions For May 10, 1999
* The Third Secret of Fatima: World War III?
* World's Largest Bacteria Found
* Nuclear Sub to Explore Climate Change


SPECIAL RESEARCH PROJECTS

* Y2K: USA, Russia Still Cooperating on Y2K
* Mystery Contrails: More Reports from Vancouver, Canada
   and Florida; FAA Facility Caught Launching Chemtrail Spray
   Aircraft; Bio Attack on Houston; New Planes Involved?;
   GOES-10 Animation of Contrails Over California; Helicopter
   Sprays "Mystery Dust" in Texas Town
* Radar Anomalies: Large Arizona Ring


THE MILLENNIUM FORUM

* A TMP Special Event:
   Discovering Reverse Speech - Live Instore Appearance
   at Future Beyond Intelligence by Reverse Speech Analyst
   Jon Kell

_____________________________


See the TMP web site for links to these current
news stories and updates, an archive of previous
news and information on other TMP resources:

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


The Millennium Report is the e-mail update service of The
Millennium Project, an independent research organization
initiated in January 1999 as an alternative source of news
and information to the maintream media. TMP was founded
by future studies researcher Paul Anderson, also director of
Circles Phenomenon Research Canada.

TMR is published weekly or as breaking news develops, with
the latest news, information and web site updates and is
available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from
the mailing list, send your request, including either "subscribe
TMR" or "unsubscribe TMR" and e-mail address to:
psa@direct.ca

TMP welcomes your news leads and submissions.
Forward all correspondence to:

E-Mail:
psa@direct.ca

Tel / Fax:
604.731.8522

Mail:
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC
V6J 1J4
Canada

=A9 The Millennium Project






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   Apr > Apr 27

               Fireball Lights Up Skies Over Washington State

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:30:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:44:35 -0400
Subject: Fireball Lights Up Skies Over Washington State


>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 04:47:57 GMT
>Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:48:27 -0400
>Subject: Fireball Lights Up Skies Over Washington State

>Source: "spokane.net"

<http://www.spokane.net:80/news-story-body.asp?Date=042399&ID=s565372&cat=>

>>April 23, 1999

>>Fireball lights up skies across region

>>Compiled from wire services -

>>Kennewick _ The skies over Eastern Washington were lit up
>>Wednesday night by a giant fireball.

>>The flaming orange object was seen from Prosser to the Spokane
>>area and was likely part of the Lyrid meteor shower that
>>climaxed Wednesday, said Peter Davenport, director of the
>>National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle.

Dear List:

This repeats a widely held misconception about bright fireballs
- that they are related to meteor showers.  It is believed that
there are two sources for meteors.

1) comets, which are probably the source for most of the
"shooting stars" seen.  These are thought to be possibly a
mixture of frozen and other material with the consistency of
cigar ash. They may never reach the Earth's surface, except
possibly as cosmic dust.

2) Asteroids, which are rocky bodies, probably are the source of
bright fireballs and the meteorites which reach the Earth's
surface.  They are considered sporadics and not associated with
showers.

3) A third source of bright fireballs are space debris.


Clear skies,

Bob Young






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   Apr > Apr 27

                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:38:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:54:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300


>Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:59:03 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Rebecca <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:01:14 -0500
>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #300

>> Apology to MW #300 (For April 24, 1999)

>Congratulations Alfred on 300 "Odd Odes".

>Keep 'em coming!
>
>Best,
>Rebecca
>
>[Hear, hear! Many thanks Al for the conscience-ness --ebk]


Absolutley, even though I can disagree with Al, keep on keeping
on Al.

"Even though I may disagree with what you say , I shall defend
to the death the right to say it" - Voltare

Somthing that we on the list should take to heart. -GT McCoy






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                 Two UFO Sightings Reported Over Pittsburgh

From: Stan Gordon <paufo@westol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:28:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:49:48 -0400
Subject: Two UFO Sightings Reported Over Pittsburgh


Two UFO Sightings Reported Over Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania During
The Past Week

From UFO Researcher: Stan Gordon
PA UFO Hotline (24 hrs.)  724-838-7768
Website: www.westol.com/~paufo

There have been two UFO sightings reported in the skies over the
Pittsburgh area during the last week.  I am awaiting further
information on both reports.

Date: April 21, 1999
Time: 9:15 P.M.
Location: West Mifflin,PA/Pittsburgh suburb
Report: The observers live near the flight path of an airport,
and are familiar with seeing various types of aircraft at night.
The occupants of a car say they saw an object that was described
as looking like an 1/8  slice of pizza, flying with the crust
end forward. This front section was reportedly covered with
numerous white non-blinking lights.  Witnesses could only see
the silhouette against the sky.  The nearly triangular shaped
object was reportedly seen in the sky at the same time that an
aircraft, believed to have been a commercial airliner was moving
towards Pittsburgh.  According to one of the viewers, the object
was above the airplane, and it stopped as the aircraft continued
on it's course. Then suddenly the object began to pace the
aircraft, and quickly caught up to it.  During an interview, I
was told that the object was then in a diagonal position with
the plane.  A bright beam of light was then emitted from the
side of the object, and was directed on the aircraft. This beam
of white light which at first was narrow, began to expand, and
it reportedly completely illuminated the airplane.  Seconds
later, the beam of light vanished.  The witnesses at that point
pulled into a driveway, and lost sight of the event, while
asking another person to come outside.  When the other person
came out, all that could be seen was a bright light moving in
the distance.

---

Date: April 25, 1999
Time: 7:25 P.M.
Location: South Park/Pittsburgh
Report: The witness is a professional who works in a scientific
field. He had recently started a photography course.  He was out
on a photographic class project, shooting some landscape shots
when the sighting occured.  He observed a V  formation of six or
seven lights moving east above the moon.  The lights were an
orangish-pinkish-white color, very luminous and non-blinking.
They were slow moving, and the last lights were observed at 7:35
P.M. The witness did attempt several photographs of the light
formation, and is awaiting development of the film.

If anyone else has had any recent similar reports please let me
know.  Any additional information on these reports, as well as
other 1998 and 1999 UFO sightings from Pennsylvania, will be
updated on my web page, in the near future.

Stan Gordon







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                  Re: * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-23-99

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:53:14 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:47:32 -0400
Subject: Re: * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-23-99


>From: Rense E-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
>To: Rense E-News  <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:24:07 -0600
>Subject: * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-23-99

>                * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *

>                      The Week Ahead
>                   4-25-99 thru 5-1-99

>        Guests, Announcements, Week's Top Stories
>                    From sightings.com

>Jeff Rense E-News is distributed exclusively by Free Subscription.


>                   * From Jeff's Desk *

<snip>

Hi Errol,

I was always under the impression that Jeff Rense's show and
site were dedicated to UFOs and other Paranormal areas. Now I
note that after reviewing the top stories listed below it
appears to be some sort of site supporting the Serb invasion of
Kosovo. Am I reading this right. Some of the crap on there
boggles my mind.

Don Ledger

>
>                      * TOP STORIES *

>        Just a few of last week's most intriguing!
>                 http://www.sightings.com

>Read these vitally important articles and dozens more at
>http://www.sightings.com  All stories are saved and archived
>in our huge DataPages section

>* Clinton And Blair Spurn Milosovic's Offer Of
>  'International' Kosovo Force

>* President Milosevic Exclusive Interview By Houston TV
>  News Analyst

>* NATO Bombs Milosevic House - Denies Trying To Kill Him...

>* NATO's Real Target Is Russia

>* Clinton Rushes To Exploit Colorado Shootings

>* Major US Military Decline Straining Capabilities

>* Report Finds China Stole Data On Top American Nuclear
>  Warhead

>* China Premier Rebukes Protesters- Warns Of Force To
>  Reclaim Taiwan

>* England's Mystery Lights - Flashlights On Foxes, UFOs,
>  Seismic Stress?

>* Spielberg Will Produce $40 Million ET Abduction TV
>  Miniseries

>* 3,500 Outlawed Cluster Bombs Dropped Around One
>  Village Alone

>* Arkansas Plant Sends Thousands Of Tons Potentially
>  Deadly Hot Dogs To Russia

>* Yeltsin - Russia Will Not Allow West To Defeat Milosevic
>  And Control Yugoslavia

>* UPDATE Kosovo Mine Said To Yield $3 TRILLION Over Next
>  5 Years

>* The Rambouillet 'Total Surrender' Agreement - Why
>  Yugoslavia Refused It

>* The Third Secret Of Fatima Confirmed??

>* Ecological Disaster After NATO Hits Petrochemical Plant

>* Migraine Pain - Not Mainly In The Brain

>* Men And Women's Brains Are Much Different

>* Y2K - New Scenario - Problems To Begin In July And Linger
>  For 30 Months

>* Y2K - Russia And US Said Still Cooperating

>* Y2K - New Study Predicts Phones Will Work At Dawn Of 2000

>* UFO Scotland Posts Best UFO Video Clips Yet - See Them Now

>* Cloned Beef Has Been Sold For Fours Year In Part Of Japan -
>  Consumers Shocked

>* UPDATE Bizarre 1947 'Ulimate Secret Weapon' News Story -
>  Your Help Requested

>* Apache Helicopter Sprays Texas Town With WHAT?

>* Contrail Spraying Of Cities Is Real - Part One & Two

>                         ---<+>---

>"The illusion of freedom (in America) will continue as long as
>it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where
>the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just
>take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they
>will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see
>the brick wall at the back of the theater."- Frank Zappa

>                         ---<+>---

>                  * THIS WEEK'S GUESTS *
>                   4-25-99 thru 5-1-99

>(Please note Jeff's Guest schedule can change due to late breaking
>stories, etc)
>
>SUN  4-25-99
> (Encore 4-14-99)
> Michael Lindemann: Weekly UFO/ET Update
> Dr. Joseph Chiappalone MD: Sliding Toward The Edge...

>MON  4-26-99
> Carol Rainey: Media Suppression Of UFOs
> John Whitley: NWO War On Yugoslavia

>TUE  4-27-99
> UFO*BC: Monthy Canada UFO Report
> pending

>WED  4-28-99
> Michael Lindemann: Weekly UFO/World Update
> LIVE from England: Robert McBratney: Mother Shipton's Prophecies

>THU  4-29-99
> Jeffrey Nyquist: The Russian Bear: Dead Or Alive?

>FRI  4-30-99
> Steve Douglass: Recording Current Military Transmissions
> Elizabeth Baron: Nationally-Known Psychic

>SAT 5-1
> David John Oates Reverse Speech Show:
> The discoverer of RS does reversals live on the air!

>               --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

<snip>






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   Apr > Apr 27

                            Re: Ruppelt the Liar?

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:40:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:50:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Ruppelt the Liar?


Dear Brad, Fran, and Mike,

Since I posted the above title, it has been cross-posted all
over the Internet without the context of all the other messages,
so there is a lot of heat coming down on my head.  However, the
idea was to simulate further discussion.

In any case my correspondents pointed out several things
which are interesting and are further developed here:

  1)  Ruppelt's original manuscript was much larger than the
final book. Only Brad and Michael Swords have read the larger
version, to my knowledge.

  2)  In cutting down the book to a reasonable length, did the
Fort Monmouth sighting get compressed in time to make it a "good
read?"

  3)  Considering that MG Cabell, was hot and heavy on the
Fort Monmouth, NJ, sighting, there was pressure to come up with
something on the sighting to get him off ATIC's back.  Any
reasonable sounding answer would do.  (McDonald also
investigated this sighting and was critical of the explanation.)
Ruppelt being successful in deflecting the heat on this case was
probably please with himself and just used his explanation which
he seemed pretty proud of in his book.

  4)  ATIC was in a funny position.  The ATIC was part of AMC
although the Directorate of Intelligence considered ATIC in a
special relationship as field unit of DI.  Even so, unless your
name is Patton or Hollingsworth you don't go firing people in
commands run by a superior officers.  I have discussed staff
and command relationships elsewhere.  Basically, staff "pukes,"
as one commander put it, are not important.They are adjuncts
of the commander.  The important relationships are commander to
commander.  Staff officers exercise supervision--not command--in
their areas of expertise.  Now if Cabell wanted to clean people
out of ATIC, he might have gotten with personnel to reassign
people at ATIC, but not without first taking the matter up with
the AMC commander in a back channel.  In his own office,
obviously, he is the authority to move or fire people as
required.  (It also goes without saying that superior staff
have their commander's ear, so you cross them at your own
peril.)  (Perhaps there is something, I haven't seen here.
Was ATIC actually under DI in a command relationship?  Was
it simply attached to AMC at the time?  It seems that has
to be answered.  I did see a memo concerning the "special
relationship" with DI as a field unit, but was that formalized?
Gad, you have to copy everything you see, because there is no
telling when it will show up as something important.)

5) Ruppelt in his book does not do justice to those people
that thought UFOs represented a possible Soviet jump ahead
especially in the early days.

6) Exactly what was Ruppelt's mission?  When you consider
that, then you might understand why he acted the way he did.
What do the higher ups want from him?

(From the Hynek and Friend tapes it is obvious that they
are both interested in UFOs and delving into the subject, but
they also understand that what they were required to do is to
offer some kind explanation for UFO cases that sounded
reasonable.) (Asside: I might add sounded reasonable--it did
not have to be reasonable.)

Ruppelt did recommend an enlargement of Project Blue Book in
1952.  He pulled out all the stops here.  He also complained
about lack of access to CRIVIS reports and other intelligence
materials.

Ruppelt did criticize the Air Force publicly on several
occasions concern their investigations after he left the USAF.
Did he perhaps hope that he might be recalled to lead a new,
better investigation?  Perhaps this was also the purpose of his
book.Also, Ruppelt was all over the map on UFOs, sometimes
depending on with whom he was talking.  When Halstead visited
with him he said one thing and another to the press.

I think at best he could be characterized as ambivalent
toward UFOs with Brad's assessment being closest to the mark.
However, we should continue to hammer on this as it is
important, my contributions were just for the sake of
discussion.  Please blast away at them!

Regards,
--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135







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                      UFO Over Australia Monday Night?

From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:19:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:58:19 -0400
Subject: UFO Over Australia Monday Night?

Hi Folks,

This is mostly for readers in Australia. I got a short message
that on Monday night around 9 pm, a UFO was sighted by many
people near Brisbane. Which reader of this list has more
information and/or has newspaper or TV station  URLs which have
reports about this affair?

Thanks

Werner Walter in Germany






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                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:48:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:01:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300
>Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:38:56 -0700

>>Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:59:03 -0700 (PDT)
>>From: Rebecca <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
>>Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #300
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:01:14 -0500
>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #300

>>>Apology to MW #300 (For April 24, 1999)

>>Congratulations Alfred on 300 "Odd Odes".

>>Keep 'em coming!
>>
>>Best,
>>Rebecca

>>[Hear, hear! Many thanks Al for the conscience-ness --ebk]

>Absolutley, even though I can disagree with Al, keep on keeping
>on Al.

You got it, Ace! But _what_, pray tell, could you _possibly_
disagree with <g>.

>"Even though I may disagree with what you say , I shall defend
>to the death the right to say it" - Voltare

He also said something about living for a time when the last
king strangled the last priest with the king's own steaming
entrails.  We do either one we'll _have_ the other <g>.

>Somthing that we on the list should take to heart. -GT McCoy

Well -- most of the time <g>. All things in moderation --
including moderation.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com


--
Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow!
View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more.
Consider Matter, Mind & Movement.
See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration.
Take a ride in the Teleporter.

Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
<Updated 24 April>

John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $150.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.






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   Apr > Apr 27

                       Re: Help Needed With UFO Report

From: Alex Field <alex@abcfield.force9.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:15:58 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:10:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Help Needed With UFO Report


Dear List

Anyone that can give me some advice or have ever heard of anything
like the report below I would be very greatfull to hear from you.

Please email at: ben@abcfield.force9.co.uk

All the best

Ben Field
BUFOD

=====Report Follows=====

First name: XXXX
Surname: XXXX
Age: 45
Occupation: teacher -musician

Contact information: With held by BUFOD

Day sighting took place: Tuesday
Day (date): 27th
Month sighting took place: April
Year sighting took place: 1999
Time sighting took place: 6:00
am/pm: AM

Description of area where sighting took place: Last night my
sleep was interupted again by a "dream" of a ufo. A cloaked or
stealth white object, that blends in well with a white sky cover
which always seems present with these dreams. Everybody always
talks about lights and rings and beams, but these are almost
transluscent and no sound is heard except air displacement when
they fly very low to ground(about 200ft)I wanted to see if
others have had shared or same vision of such objects. Last
night they were close according to my dream at the jersey shore
and a couple over philadelpia. Usally in these dreams only a few
of us can see them but there are many at low altitudes
constantly. These are different than my early childhood dreams
of ships-which I often had but dismissed-how I'm not sure-But
they do not invoke terror I felt then. Let me try to draw it. If
any one else has had this vision let me know.

                    (---------)
                   (           )
                  (             )
                 /               \
           [-----                 -----]
          /                             \
         /                               \
        [                                 ]
         \                               /
          \                             /
           ---------           ---------
                    \          /
                     x  xxx   x
                      [      ]
                      [      ]
                       xx  xx

I'll have to continue this  with another letter as suspiciously
the brower is going nuts,......some sort of deinterference

Nearest town: cherry hill
Map ref: nj Country: usa

Did anyone else witness the sighting ?: No

Circumstances of the sighting/experience: Alright it stopped-I
was cut off twice.The picture up above is rough but somewhat
like what I have seen but the wings and dual rear stablizers
have cutouts in the middle of them almost like a prectxel or
doughnut,very rounded and sleek all one piece construction. I
somehow feel these are here to interfere with another group of
aliens who do the things so many write about,and is why they fly
at such low altitudes. They can stop humans from being abducted
and fly into action when they detect a raid by these others.
They know the areas where former abductees live and patrol
there. These ships are not dangerous they might even be droids.

I have never had any experiences with ufo's  in a conscience
state. And always dismissed these as just dreams. Just like in
my dreams of youth I dismissed how countless times I have
drifted floating through my house unable to scream and noone
able to wake. Always down the steps out the door and the
blissful trip up and up. Never questioning what was going on.
But these dreams have always been there.

The ships last night were new to me and I don't remember
anything about my trips of youth except the missiing time[could
be relative time;ie-hour of that time =1/10second of our
time]and the flight back. I always fly back just like I
went,past the sleeping bodys of my family. I have never woken up
from one of thses "dreams" until I would be placed back in my
bed. I wonder if this too is common.

I have never confided or told anyone about this until now.
Actually I have always thought my experiences were the result of
my mind and not some other or group of minds. I still don't
know. What made me come out,was something I saw a few weeks back
that jarred me. Was a TV show and most of them are crap,but
there was a guy who had this scar on his leg about 6" above the
ankle,to the left of his shin bone in a circular shape.....just
like mine. I don't ever remember an injury there but I kind of
remember picking at the scab and always wonder why it never
healed or when it did how there would be a scab on it. Now I
don't know anything else but psycologiclly speaking, I am a
wreck.

I was diagnossed manic depressive a few years back,always manic
only recently occasionly depressed. Have not been able to really
hold a job. Always obcessed with transcendence of time. Always
trying to explain that it does not exist and heavey into
philosophy. A compulsive masterbator using the vacum cleaner and
pool suction outlet and making contraptions to do this safely as
a youngster, penis pumps now, A complete sexual addict. Till
about 30 at least 2x a day have an orgasm,now at least once a
day. Anal pleasure with my fingers and asstortment of objects,
fruit and dildo's Intrigued an experimented with beastiality and
incest,equally attracted to either sex,married,but still active
outside,in compelled purely sexual relationships.

Crank and pot since 15 years old ,Masters degree in music,who's
who in colleges and UNI a complete sexual deviate.At least 200
sexual partner,maybe more since 15,I fear now perhaps I am
carrier of a seed that lies dormant in all that have tasted of
or through intercourse now carry in their bodies waiting to do
what ever.

This is so nuts I don't why I'm telling all this  I am. I swear
on my fathers grave all I have said is true so help me God.

(Weather and Conditions) - Cold

The UFO was sighted in or near Urban Area

The UFO was sighted for [   ] Hour: 1

Noise info. heard during the sighting: always quiet

Was any photographic record made at the time?: No

The UFO Manoeuvred

The height the UFO was from the ground was about: 200-500

Did you experience any effects ie loss of time: always lost in time

permision to publish report: Yes












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   Apr > Apr 27

                              Re: Roswell Movie

From: Brian Straight <briansxx@gte.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:33:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:33:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Movie


FYI, broadcast.com is featuring the documentary 'Roswell: The
UFO Uncoverup'






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                  Re: Jerry Black's Open Letter to Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:24:04 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:59:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Jerry Black's Open Letter to Friedman


>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:04:47 -0500
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net>
>Subject: Black's Open Letter to Friedman
>

>As always, don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger, heh heh. Mr.
>Jerry Black has asked me to pass this along to the list, and to
>let you all know that an e-mail account has been established for
>him. (See bottom of this article)

>Thanks,

>Glenn


>     AN OPEN LETTER TO STAN FRIEDMAN

>My name is Jerry Black, and I will now state, for the record, my
>position on the UFO topic. After 41 years of researching and
>investigating UFOs, I certainly believe that we are dealing with
>a very real phenomenon.

>As with many other objective and scientific searchers, I do not
>feel that we have the positive, indisputable proof of what the
>phenomenon represents.

I won't bore the readers with the rest of this rant nor will I
waste my time responding to such junk. Mr. Black clearly has an
axe to grind and is apparently disturbed that the world isn't
beating a path to his door. Mr. Black has grossly misrpresented
both the scientific method and my views, statements and
activities. My book is TOP SECRETY/MAJIC not Top Secret
Majestic. My focus was on content of the MJ-12 documents not on
typography so modern computers don't make it any easier. I speak
of evidence not proof. Kevin Randle and I certainly disagree
about a number of details about Roswell. But he has done a great
deal of investigation rather than Blackian proclamation. Kevin
and I certainly agree that a crashed saucer and alien bodies
were recovered in New Mexico in July 1947.

Len Stringfield was a collector of stories not a thorough
investigator of them. I asked him to follow up on the Pappy
Henderson story or have her call me collect so that I could seek
confirmatory witnesses. I found her, fortunately at Unsolved
Mysteries' expense. She wanted to appear on the program though
Len tried to dissuade her. I certainly didn't demand his files.
I did ask what would happen to them

I recently located Charlette Mann who had written him about Her
grandfather's experience in Missouri in 1941. She was quite
dismayed that Len had done nothing to follow up. Mrs.
Stringfield refused to check the files. I agreed not to spread
Charlette's  address. Len Didn't seem to understand that both
Sappho and Charlette were interested in getting independent
verification of their spouse's or grandfather's story.

One of the major objectives of people like Mr. Black and Philip
Klass is to waste the  time of ppeople such as Dr. Maccabee and
myself responding to their rants. Sorry. I have much better
things to do.

Stanton Friedman







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                     RAMS, Bell, Gersten, Rense Theroux

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:42:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:42:48 -0400
Subject: RAMS, Bell, Gersten, Rense Theroux


Art Bell In Hot Water...04/25/99

By Mitch Battros, Earth Changes TV


It appears Art Bell has acquired Peter Gersten to represent him
either legally, publicly, or maybe just a friendly lawyer
adviser. Gersten states his agreement with Art Bell in that Jeff
Rense, David John Oats, Robert AM Stephens and others are acting
in. libel, slander, malice and a reckless disregard for the
truth. Gersten states, "certain heinous statements are libel per
se in most states and actual damages need not be proven " and "
CAUS (Gersten) applauds Art Bell for taking this necessary
action" .

Well Mr. Bell, you might as well add Mitch Battros (Earth
Changes TV), Joe Firmage, Sean David Morton and everyone else
who disagrees with your perception and your methods to handle
conflict. No wonder there are so many biting at the bit to see
the alleged information yet to come which will put an, oh so
lurking shadow, on the dark side of Art Bell. Of course, if you
are innocent you have nothing legally to worry about. However,
the reality is people will never see you the same again. It is a
shame you did not have these thoughts running through your head
when you "ATTACK' people. (your words, not mine). You are quoted
as saying "I go after people until there is nothing left of
them."

Hmm, if we only knew you back then. I can also remember you
stating to millions as you did your above statements, "When I am
in competition with someone, I go after them with everything I
have. I will move right next door to them and drive them out of
town". Gee Mr. Bell, is this what you are doing to your
competitors listed above. Hmmm, is there a pattern here.

Since I am in the media/entertainment field, I am very much
aware of the risk I am taking with such strong statements
against Mr. Bell. But when he went public speaking to millions
of people saying (although he did not mention my name) that I
was responsible for Richard Hoagland's heart attack, he had
crossed the line of civil decency. I am still not quite over
what Mr. Bell and his gang did to Courtney Brown. How can you
possibly justify to yourself the vicious attack made on Mr.
Brown. Then one year later give a tremendous amount of air time
and exposure to Mr. Jonathan Reed and those "fake" photos and
story about the aliens he killed in the Seattle area. It was
rumored that Art Bell never did believe this outrageous story to
begin with.

Does this mean your comrade Mr. Gersten's statement "certain
heinous statements are libel per se in most states and actual
damages need not be proven" applies to you as well?

If the allegations prove to be false, I will go public
immediately with the story and whatever retractions are needed.



artbell@aol.com Art Bell wrote:

1) "I thought Jeff Rense was a good guy until he started to be a
method for you to spread your poison. That puts him in the same
portion of the food chain as you. Rense does not wish Richard
well. He wishes R.A.M. Stevens well and on a regular basis
Publishes on his web site the kind of thing you see above."

2) "Jeff Rense at Sightings made that decision some time ago.
Richard (Hoagland) may be many things, but he is not the bottom
feeder this guy is."

3) " If you examine the nature of the attacks against Richard
(Hoagland) by Robert (Stephens) and his PUBLISHERS at Sightings
(Jeff Rense)"

4) "You are nothing but a Liar and Fraud (referring to Robert
Stephens), a very small person who attacks people when they are
down. So give me your best shot, personal or public."

5) "Jeff Rense and others who take up with him only sink to his
level.(of a bottom feeder)"

Well folks there it is. I am sorry to have to take such a
position. Art Bell was quite the inspiration to me. He in many
ways helped motivate me to take up with my vision. In some crazy
way, I am saddened Art chose to take this path several months
ago. If he had stayed the road, his past would have never caught
up with him. I, like thousands of others, watched him
deteriorate right in front of our eyes.

There is one thing for sure, I bet he wished he had never heard
the words Robert AM Stephens. You can get the full story and
ongoing unfolding of why Art Bell is not on the air, at Robert's
web site:

http://www.stephens-behold.com/index.html


Mitch Battros

Producer - Earth Changes TV

http://www.earthchangesTV.com


-----


From: UFOLAWYER1@aol.com
Message-ID: <b42a9249.2452ae80@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 01:20:00 EDT
To: CAUSupdates@caus.org
Reply-To: UFOLAWYER1@aol.com


Dear CAUS Members:

On this Saturday, the CAUS commentary is about four simple but
powerfulwords: Defamation; Demand, Invasion & Sovereignty:

DEFAMATION: To harm the reputation of by libel or slander.

CAUS supports the intent of the First Amendment with respect to
free speech and upholds a person's right to say whatever (s)he
pleases....with certainlimitations. The US Supreme Court has
ruled that there are certain exceptions to our Right to Free
Speech and defamation is one of them. CAUS agrees that
defamatory statements should not be protected.Within the
Internet UFO Community and its periphery, defamation continually
rears its poisonous tongue...usually without challenge. Due to
the intricacies and expenses involved, not to mention
jurisdictional issues, the thought of a lawsuit to redress
obvious lies is nonexistent. I was not aware of any lawsuits
involving libelous statements made on the Internet...until now!

CAUS has learned that Art Bell is consulting with attorneys who
are seriously considering legal action against Robert A.M.
Stephens, John David Oates, Jeff Rense and possibly others for
libelous statements posted on Stephens' website and also
broadcast during Oates radio show on which Stephens was the
guest. Rense is the usual host of the Sightings radio show but
consents to Oates hosting the show on Saturday nights.

Certain heinous statements are libel per se in most states and
actual damages need not be proven. Since Art Bell is a public
figure, either malice or a reckless disregard for the truth will
probably have to be proven. CAUS applauds Art Bell for taking
this necessary action. Free speech is one thing. Accusing
someone of a crime, knowing it is false is another. Posting the
false information on a website and then broadcasting the same on
a radio show is unacceptable by any standards of decency and is
actionable. Being the host of a radio show and allowing libelous
statements is also actionable.

All parties involved should be held accountable.

-----


Response from David John Oates

Reverse Speech Engineering


To: UFOLAWYER1@aol.com, eotl@west.net
Subject: IN THE INTERESTS OF FAIR REPORTING

Peter,

Would you please check your facts before posting such rubbish!
For a start I am not a part of Jeff Rense's show - I own my own
independent operation. Secondly, the statements were not made by
me, they were made by Robert Stephens, who had in his possession
certain documents that prove these charges. I viewed these
documents before allowing him to speak this on air and in fact I
did NOT let Stephens mention more than 10% of what he had.

And, further, if you plan to cover this issue, why do you also
not cover the full facts, that Bell and Hoagland spent TWO HOURS
of air time on 12/30, (My show spent less than two minutes on
the current issue) claiming that I altered tapes to make
reversals say what I wanted them to say - with NO EVIDENCE to
back this up and even, the following day, the technician who
they claimed had the proof, made a full statement the following
day stating that my tapes were NOT altered - Belll did not cover
this. Will you also say that Bell stated on air and on his web
site that I had made racist posts in his name, with no proof
whatsoever to back this up - he even instigated an FBI
investigation that subsequently cleared me of this henious
charge, yet Bell did not cover this. Will you cover this? Will
you also state that I have had my request for a retraction on my
web site for four months now with absolutely no response.

http://www.reversespeech.com/wts-new-pr-1-499.shtml


David John Oates

-----


Response from Jeff Rense

Sightings Radio/Online


To: UFOLAWYER1@aol.com
From: eotl@west.net
Subject: Retraction Demand



Peter,

Regarding your 'editorial' of 4-24-99:

This sir, is a false and libelous statement about me and my
program: "Rense is the usual host of the Sightings radio show
but consents to Oates hosting the show on Saturday nights. "



FACT: Jeff Rense is the ONLY host of the Sightings radio
program.

FACT: David Oates owns and hosts HIS OWN, independent, 'Reverse
Speech Show' which airs Saturday nights.

FACT: David Oates has always purchased his own separate radio
program airtime from the same syndicator I do.

FACT: David Oates has canceled checks from the syndicator for
purchase of airtime for EVERY single one of his programs from
its inception in November of 1998 to the present.

FACT: David Oates was under contract to a different network at
the time of his first few programs. As a favor to him to help
prevent any conflict of interest while that contract was being
canceled, I agreed to let him call HIS first few programs the
'Saturday Edition of Sightings' - even though, in reality, there
was no Saturday Sightings show.

FACT: David Oates had no program music of his own. As a favor, I
permitted him to use some of mine.

FACT: I have never had any control whatsover over David Oates'
program, his guests, or his editorial comments.

FACT: Neither I nor my program or website has ever said one word
about the issues in your 'editorial.'

FACT: I have nothing to do with David Oates' or Robert Stephens'
websites or statements.



Your statement about me is false. Your statement about me is
malicious.Your statement about me is defamatory. One email to me
would have gotten you the facts. One email to David Oates would
have gotten you the facts.

Your own expression: '...either malice or a reckless disregard
for the truth...' fits your actions perfectly.

I demand you retract and apologize for your reckless and
malicious statements, and post said retraction and this correct
information to all those on your list immediately.



Jeff Rense

Sightings

-----

Censorship:

What is Public and What is Private on the Internet?
by Michael Theroux



Note: Michael Theroux of Borderlands Sciences has checked in
with this installment of an important multipart essay on the
Internet and obvious censorship. It is a compelling subject on
this new medium of global union. Theroux was my first webmaster
and offered me my first ever online presence for which I am most
grateful. I am now running two websites and the medium for
visual effect is daunting. I also have learned a great deal from
Michael about this culture of 'Strange', for he is probably one
of the oldest dissenters of its milestone benchmarks, and the
characters that ride its winds peculiar, for nearly 12 years
now. The original of this essay is at Borderlands which has a
link on our front page. All installments will be run here on
this page as they are available. Rams

---

Borderland Sciences has been subjected to what we feel could be
called none other than censorship on the internet -- and
it has happened to many others. But, in order to understand
censorship, one must define what is public and what is private
on the internet. Many seem to think that when they pay for a
virtual space to hold a forum that it is theirs to do with as
they wish. This is true -- but if they decide they want to
control what is said there, and refuse to display certain posts
-- they cannot deny they are involved in censorship. Why?
Well, it depends on whether the forum is public or private. For
instance, if I pay to rent a hall to have a PUBLIC meeting, is
it OK for me to run out into the crowd and place my hand over
the mouth of some loud dissenter? If he/she gets violent or uses
abusive language, then I would have grounds to have him removed
and would not be censoring him. But, if he is merely opposing my
point of view and I have him silenced -- then I am
censoring him.

So it goes on the internet. It doesn't matter that you are
paying to hold the public forum -- if you silence anyone
for their opinions, you are censoring, and cannot deny it. If
you are interested in total control over what is posted, and do
not want to be accused of censorship, then have a private forum
-- by invitation only. It is that simple. If it is public,
and you choose what gets posted (usually to fit an agenda), then
you are guilty of censorship plain and simple. A good example of
a public forum (that is run as a public forum) is IUFO. Although
at times I have challenged what is being said there, I have
never once been told I couldn't do so -- which is why I
actually do engage in discussions there.

(Send email with the text: "subscribe iufo
yourname@whatever.com" to majordomo@world.std.com)

Footnote : Mr. Theroux advised Behold on 4-25-1999 that IUFO now
has censored him and borderlands posts and will not allow him to
present his solid research based dissent on various topics.
Thus, IUFO is now ran by Keith Rowland under the management of
Peter Gersten, Art Bell, and Richard Hoagland, it is to be
assumed . Rams

The alteration of history is another example of censorship.
Specifically with respect to Borderlands, all traces of
Borderlands and myself have been removed from the Art Bell
website. The webmaster, Keith Rowland, saw fit to remove all
previous links (which he had posted), and remove my name and
link from the previous guest list. I was on Art's show on
January 6th of this year, but you won't see it listed on the
website. Why would he do this? Well, in the past he had always
posted my links, but stopped doing so. While the links pertained
specifically to the show's subject matter, and were not in any
way rude or defamatory of any of the guests or host, he told me
in so many words that I was challenging too much, and that he
was sick of it. The topics included, Contrails, Y2k, Solar
Activity, the Pegasis Hoax, NEXRAD Radar, etc. After a very
brief sarcastic exchange between us, he stated that, "You've run
out of my generousity [sic]," and he then removed all links to
Borderlands. I have no problem with him deciding not to post any
further links from Borderlands if that is what he wishes, but to
alter the past by removing all previous posts and links
including the past guest reference is nothing more than
censorship. Others have been handled the same way. So now, if
you browse the Art Bell website, are you really getting the
whole story, or is it only what they want you to see?

While we are never going to stop censorship on the internet, we
can point out where it occurs. It is not our job at Borderlands
to focus our attentions on such things as we are really a
scientific research foundation, but I feel it essential to
define the differences between what is public and what is
private on the internet with regard to this topic of censorship.
There will be those who disagree -- which is fine, of
course.



Michael Theroux

Director

Borderland Sciences Research Foundation - Since 1945

http://www.borderlands.com

director@borderlands.com

Ph. 707.825.7733 FAX: 707.825.7779



 End of Part 1



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   Apr > Apr 28

                          UFO ROUNDUP Still Delayed

From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:23:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:56:38 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP Still Delayed

To all recipients of UFO Roundup:


Joseph Trainor, the editor, is still 'away from his desk' at the
moment. As soon as I receive the next bulletin it will be posted
to you.

Our apology for the delay.

Regards,


John Hayes

jhayes@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com
UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/
AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:-
        http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/






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              Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 01:18:52 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:59:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'


>Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:42:54 -0600
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
>Subject: Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'

>>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:08:13 -0700
>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'

>>I cannot say William Lyne his all the bases in his rant quoted
>>above.

>>He seems to have invented some new ones, well worthy of the
>>irrepressible Weekly World News.

>>One in particular has me howling,  how the 'illuminati' (or
>>whoever) 'edited' Maxwell's equations to keep certain
>>information secret, with the help of the FBI !

>>24 Nazi submarines off US shores with nuclear missiles all
>>through WW 2 is another good one, especially the part where they
>>all scuttled themselves ( officers, men and all ) at the end of
>>the war.

>>Hitler would really be pissed if he could see that.

>Dear Larry,

>While I'm happy to provide you a service of livening up your
>otherwise dull weekend, please do investigate "Operation
>Paperclip", "MK-Ultra" and Charles Smith's Softwars
>(http://www.softwar.net) site.  You may find Truth is indeed
>stranger than fiction.

>Don

>---

>"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson

Dear Don:

It wasn't all that dull, judging by the headache I suffered as a
result.

I will check out the site.

I would still like to know if you believe William Lyne's lengthy
and somewhat novel list of assertions, from the original
posting you made some days ago... in whole or in part.

If in part, which parts?

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch





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   Apr > Apr 28

                  Re: * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-23-99

From: Jeff Rense <meotl@west.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:19:41 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:16:15 -0400
Subject: Re: * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-23-99


>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:53:14 -0300
>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-23-99

>>From: Rense E-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
>>To: Rense E-News  <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
>>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:24:07 -0600
>>Subject: * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News * 4-23-99

>>                * Jeff Rense Weekly E-News *

>>                      The Week Ahead
>>                   4-25-99 thru 5-1-99

>>        Guests, Announcements, Week's Top Stories
>>                    From sightings.com

>>Jeff Rense E-News is distributed exclusively by Free Subscription.

>>                   * From Jeff's Desk *

><snip>

>I was always under the impression that Jeff Rense's show and
>site were dedicated to UFOs and other Paranormal areas. Now I
>note that after reviewing the top stories listed below it
>appears to be some sort of site supporting the Serb invasion of
>Kosovo. Am I reading this right. Some of the crap on there
>boggles my mind.

>Don Ledger

Hi Don,

Suggest you listen to the show a few times...you'll see the mix
I create in the 80 hours of live radio I do each month. If you
can't, perhaps a few moments scrolling the Tonight's Guest or
Archive program links at sightings.com will show you the
enormous variety of issues covered...including the most UFO/ET
content you'll find on any national radio program in America.
Also check UFO DataPage for hundreds of documents and articles.

Because we are on the brink of WWIII, and because I am a
journalist, I have spent considerable time in the last couple
weeks covering the crisis in Yugoslavia which you saw reflected
in this week's newsletter. However, we always return to the
biggest mystery of all.

Tonight's program, for example, included two top Canadian UFO
researchers and two experiencers.

Kind regards,

Jeff







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                  Jet Crew Tell Of Close Encounter With UFO

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 05:45:08 GMT
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:22:29 -0400
Subject: Jet Crew Tell Of Close Encounter With UFO


Source: The (Daily) Mirror, April 28,

http://www.mirror.co.uk:80/stories/F2804934.html

First found: 27 Apr 1999.

Stig

***

Jet Crew Tell Of Close Encounter With UFO

A PASSENGER jet's crew have reported a close encounter with an
unidentified flying object.

They said that they noticed an "incandescent" light below their
Debonair BAe 146 as it headed over the North Sea from Sweden to
Humberside.

Then, they added, a long cylindrical silver-coloured object the size
of a battleship flew alongside. The British plane's shocked captain
saw what seemed to be rows of square portholes on the UFO before it
vanished at "enormous speed".

The crew told the Defence Ministry about their sighting. An RAF radar
station tracked the object, which was seen from three other planes.


=A9MGN, Ltd, (0171-293-3000)
One Canada Square, Canary Wharf, London, E14 5AP














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               Satellite May Have Been Cause Of UFO Sightings

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 05:51:34 GMT
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:28:21 -0400
Subject: Satellite May Have Been Cause Of UFO Sightings


Source: ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation),

http://www.abc.net.au:80/news/state/qld/archive/metqld-27apr1999-6.htm

Stig

***

Satellite may have been cause of UFO sightings

Tuesday 27 April, 1999 (9:28am AEST)

**

Police believe the re-entry of a satellite into the earth's
atmosphere is responsible for reports of a flaming object in the
sky along the east coast last night.

Police and a national UFO hotline received several reports up
and down the east coast of a possible meteorite crashing to
earth.

They say the reports included one from two men who followed the
object's path until it crashed into bushland near Mittagong in
the southern highlands of New South Wales around eight o'clock.

Police say the sighting was the controlled entry of a satellite,
which crashed into the sea 500 kilometres off the coast.


=A9 1999 Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Updated: Tue Apr 27 09:30:01 1999 (AEST)

AEST =3D Australian Eastern Standard Time








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                 Shooting Star Explanation For UFO Sighting

From: stig.agermose@get2net.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:01:30 GMT
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:31:19 -0400
Subject: Shooting Star Explanation For UFO Sighting


Source: ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation),

http://www.abc.net.au:80/news/state/qld/archive/metqld-27apr1999-10.htm

Stig

***

Shooting star explanation for UFO sighting

Tuesday 27 April, 1999 (2:27pm AEST)

**

A particularly bright shooting star has been nominated as the
most likely explanation for reports of flaming objects in the
sky between Sydney and Ipswich last night.

Rob McNaught from the Anglo-Australian observatory says he
expects his network of night cameras to confirm the sightings
were a shooting star, which are also known as fireballs.

National and State authorities say a number of aircraft reported
red flares east of Sydney between 30 and 130 kilometres out from
the coast and there were numerous reports to the water police
and coast guard.

Mr McNaught says the speed and brightness of shooting stars
often lead people to believe they have seen an object crash to
the ground.

No country has notified Australia of any satellite likely to
re-enter the atmosphere.


=A9 1999 Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Updated: Tue Apr 27 14:30:01 1999 (AEST)

AEST =3D Australian Eastern Standard Time







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              Australia: Strange Lights Reported On NSW And Qld

From: stig.agermose@get2net.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:11:00 GMT
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:33:41 -0400
Subject: Australia: Strange Lights Reported On NSW And Qld


Source: ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation),

http://www.abc.net.au:80/news/newslink/weekly/newsnat-27apr1999-1.htm

Stig

***

Strange lights reported on NSW and Qld coasts

Tuesday 27 April, 1999 (0:15am AEST)

**

The National Space, Meteor and UFO hotline is appealing for
public assistance, in identifying some unexplained lights in the
sky tonight.

Callers from the north coast of New South Wales, Sydney and the
southern Queensland coast have reported seeing bright,
fragmented lights in the sky, with astronomers unable to offer a
definite explanation.

The hotline's Ross Dowe says he has had many callers detailing
sightings, but he needs more information.

Mr Dowe says at this stage, the information received does not
equate to it being meteor activity."

"Mind you meteors do the strangest things," he said.

"And if it is a meteor shower it must be an enormous close
encounter far as meteors are concerned because the lights of
Sydney are so bright then generally Sydneyites don't see meteors
go over, or even satellites."


=A9 1999 Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Updated: Tue Apr 27 00:20:01 1999 (AEST)

AEST =3D Australian Eastern Standard Time







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              Next Month Nearly Half A Million Will Join Search

From: stig.agermose@get2net.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:32:29 GMT
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:36:15 -0400
Subject: Next Month Nearly Half A Million Will Join Search


Source: St. Paul/Minneapolis Pioneer Planet,

http://www.pioneerplanet.com:80/seven-days/2/tech/docs/030201.htm

Stig

***

Published: Monday, April 26, 1999

Project enlists home computers in search for extraterrestrial
intelligence

JOHN SNELL NEWHOUSE NEWS SERVICE

**

Next month, nearly a half-million people will assume the role of
Capt. Kirk and take their home computers on two-year missions to
seek out new life and new civilizations.

And, thanks to the Internet, they won't have to go anywhere --
boldly or otherwise -- to do it.

A group of space scientists at the University of California at
Berkeley is launching SETIHome, an ambitious program to use the
screen savers on personal computers to analyze data from the
world's largest radio telescope.

It will use the Net to tie them all together in a coordinated
search for alien life.

The program is free and looking for volunteers.

Enthusiasts will think it's neat; skeptics may not. The head of
SETIHome says their work is "kind of cool" and peppers his
discussions of the project with references to the general public
as "Earthlings."

The project is an offshoot of SETI, the Search for
Extraterrestrial Intelligence. Its most famous advocate was the
late Carl Sagan, a scientist and author perhaps best-known for
his appearances on "The Tonight Show."

Those at SETIHome bristle at the idea that the screen saver
program is pop science but admit the project could be helpful in
gathering private money, because Congress cut off funding six
years ago.

"I can't deny that it's attractive to us because it's a way of
attracting people worldwide," said Dan Werthimer, project
scientist with SETIHome. But he insists there's value in the
approach.

The idea is to take raw data gathered by the 1,000-foot Arecibo
radio telescope in Puerto Rico and divide it among thousands of
home computers.

Each computer will download a quarter-megabyte of Arecibo's data
from the Net and analyze it. When the home computer is done, it
will send the results back and grab another chunk of data. The
project will continue for two years.

Because the program is a screen saver, it will operate only
during a computer's idle time -- when someone is away from the
keyboard, for example.

SETIHome promises the application will require a maximum of
about 20 megabytes of storage on a hard disk. And it will do its
sending and receiving when users are on the Net doing other
things.

Will they actually find anything? Retired guys wandering in the
park have a better chance of finding buried treasure with their
metal detectors.

"Whether or not we find something is fairly doubtful," said
David P. Anderson, a visiting scientist creating the screen
savers at SETI.

For one thing, current technology might not cut it. Radio was
discovered in this century, and knowledge of it is primitive.

Anderson noted that it's always possible that if other
civilizations are sending signals, they're using methods humans
don't know about.

"If a planet almost clear across the galaxy had a transmitter
and were pointing it straight at us, we would pick it up," he
said. Otherwise, forget it.

If a screen saver does find something, it would be months --
maybe even a year -- before anyone knew.

"There's no little red light that goes off," Anderson said. "The
signal is sent back here to our database" and eventually matched
up with other observations.

Werthimer said if a discovery is made by someone running a
screen saver, that person would get credit.

"Maybe we will go to Stockholm together to get the Nobel Prize,"
he said. "But I can't guarantee it."

SETIHome is one of the first major applications of a technique
called distributed computing. It is a method of breaking a huge
task into pieces that can be split among lots of computers.

In the same way that it's quicker to sort a huge pile of playing
cards into separate decks when all the players help, number
crunching will be quicker with thousands of computers doing
small pieces of it.

This tag-team approach to data crunching was used originally by
academics to search for prime numbers and crack encrypted
messages.

"SETI is kind of cool," Werthimer said, "because we can say,
'You get this piece of sky' and 'You get this piece of sky.' Not
all problems can be solved this way.

"We've already analyzed in two weeks what would normally take a
couple of years," he said.

A version of the program that will run on Windows and another
for the Mac will be released in mid-May. Werthimer said 350,000
volunteers already have signed up.


Leaking signals


SETI often has noted that the Earth has been leaking radio
signals into space for nearly a half-century, in effect sending
Captain Kangaroo and Ralph Kramden as our ambassadors to the
cosmos.

But those signals are weak and not focused in any particular
direction. Werthimer said an alien civilization would have to be
far ahead of us to pick them up and make sense of them.

"Right now, Earthlings are fairly restricted in looking at
civilizations that are at least at our level," Werthimer said.
"It's likely that the first ones we'll get in contact with are
billions of years ahead of us and have already been in contact
with other life on other planets.

"Most astronomers think the universe is teeming with life," he
said. "There are 400 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy. It
would just be weird to think there isn't life out there anywhere
else."

Werthimer said he thinks SETIHome will ignite the public's
interest in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence.

"There is overwhelming support for SETI in this country, even
though Congress cut off funding for it in 1993," he said.

Since then, SETI has benefited from corporate sponsors.
Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen and Intel are among the sponsors
of SETI's Project Phoenix. The sponsors of SETIHome include Sun
Microsystems and Paramount Pictures, which got SETI to time one
of its events to coincide with December's release of the most
recent "Star Trek" movie.

"I'm hoping that we're reaching more people than the sci-fi,
'Star Trek' buffs," Werthimer said. "It would be nice to reach
out to the people who aren't interested in science. There are a
lot of interesting questions around the question of 'Are we
alone?'"


=A9 1999 PioneerPlanet / St. Paul (Minnesota) Pioneer Press - All
Rights
Reserved

*copyright

*information







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   Apr > Apr 28

                  Space Travel: NASA Designs Flying Saucer

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 05:27:54 GMT
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:38:31 -0400
Subject: Space Travel: NASA Designs Flying Saucer


Source: The Sunday Times.

Stig

***

Sunday April 25 1999

INNOVATION

Space travel

The laser-guided spaceship will fuel rumours of access to alien
technology, says Sean Hargrave

Nasa designs flying saucer

**

IT LOOKS like something out of a 1950s science-fiction film -
Nasa is building a flying saucer.

The agency is experimenting with the design because the saucer
shape has obvious aerodynamic benefits. Tests on a tiny craft
that weighs just 25g have been successful and wind-tunnel tests
on a larger prototype are taking place. The envisaged test
spaceship would measure 16ft across and carry four people.

Nasa is working on the principle that craft that are as at home
in space as in our own atmosphere will need a helping hand
before getting beyond the pull of gravity. Rather than rely on
tanks of rocket fuel, the agency is exploring means of
transmitting power to ships from the ground to reduce weight -
hence a saucer-shaped craft propelled into space by a laser
beam.

The concept is not as radical as it sounds. It had been mooted
as a means of launching satellites several years before
Professor Leik Myrabo of the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in
New York State began toying with the notion in the 1970s. He has
since proved the concept and is working on a prototype flying
saucer for Nasa and the US Air Force.

In practice this will mean a spaceship guided from Earth by a
powerful laser. When the craft reaches the edge of the
atmosphere, and the lifting power of the laser dwindles, the
energy source will be used to heat an on-board store of hydrogen
fuel. It is expected that by the time the laser makes the switch
from acting as a propellant to heating the hydrogen, the ship
will be on the brink of the atmosphere, travelling at more than
five times the speed of sound.

The on-board fuel source would then be used to enter space. It
would not need to carry huge fuel tanks filled with liquid
oxygen simply to break free of gravitational pull.

The shape of the prototype craft has a "shroud" around its lower
side that focuses the laser light on a point on the underside of
the saucer. This superheats and combusts the air there, making
it act as a jet exhaust that propels the craft into the air.

Tests have so far been encouraging. Myrabo has managed to propel
his tiny prototype to almost 100ft. A more powerful laser is to
be built to expand the test. He surmises that a 1 gigawatt laser
would be needed to get a full-size craft into space.

Wind-tunnel tests on a scale model of the 16ft-wide craft have
started and further experiments of the laser-based propulsion
system are due to take place later this year. A final craft is
not expected to be rolled out for several years.

After meetings with other aeronautical engineers, Myrabo is
predicting a second, even more futuristic saucer design. It
could be equipped with microwave receivers so that power could
be transmitted to the craft from an orbiting satellite when it
is in space.

The ambitious project would require a satellite to capture solar
energy and turn it into a microwave beam that would be beamed to
the flying saucer. As with the ground-based laser system,
reflectors on the craft would focus the microwaves on the side
of the craft opposite to the intended direction of travel. The
system could be beamed down to Earth to help launch the craft.

"My goal has been to cut the cost of getting to space by a
factor of 1,000 using a system that is completely green
[environmentally friendly]," Myrabo says.

"The system would require a fully mature infrastructure to
support these vehicles, but it could bring about an era of
airline-like space travel on highways of light."

A project involving flying saucers is bound to create
controversy among the conspiracy theorists who claim that the
American government is basing future spacecraft design on
captured alien flying saucers. However, Nasa dismisses such
talk. It says: "It's wrong to liken these designs to UFOs
because these are certainly identifiable."


Copyright 1998 Times Newspapers Ltd. This service is provided on
Times Newspapers' standard terms and conditions. To inquire
about a licence to reproduce material from The Times, visit the
Syndication website.






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   Apr > Apr 29

                        Seeking A Therapist In London

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:24:26 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:14:55 -0400
Subject: Seeking A Therapist In London


Hi,

I have a very concerned witness whom I have been talking with
for some weeks. He is a physicist, quite young but has had
distressing abduction like dreams and vague memories. He does
not want hypnosis but wants to explore ways of trying to
retrieve a better recall and in total confidence. He has had
tests for temporal lobe epilepsy to try to identify his time
lapses but these were apparently negative.

I have helped him as I can to date but he needs a psychologist
to talk with.  Those I know are all in the north and he requires
one close to his home so he can contact the person without
alerting his family.

Does anyone out there have contact with a therapist in the
London area whom can be relied upon to help this witness with
tact and with discretion?

If so please advise a way to contact them. Thanks.

Jenny Randles





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                     Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?

From: Alfredo Lissoni <alisson@tin.it>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:45:06 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:36:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?

>From: Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:04:36 +0200 (MET DST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Sightings In Islamic Countries?

Dear Henny,

The Farari Case (Iran, 1976) you cite is very interesting
and most famous.

Thanks for your pointer to Timothy Good's book Beyond Top
Secret' (I've it).

This case is better explained (or, unexplained) in 'The UFO
Cover Up', Fawcett-Greenwood.

But, in all the Islamic Countries I know of a black out in
Kuwait after a UFO sighting; there was an IR-1 near a military
base in Algeria. I've a photo from Morocco showing an alleged
alien and a photo from Tunisia showing two flying saucer into
strange triangular trials.

Best wishes,






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   Apr > Apr 29

               Abductee/Researcher Kelly Cahill in DC 4th July

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:11:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:27:13 -0400
Subject: Abductee/Researcher Kelly Cahill in DC 4th July


Those attending the 1999 MUFON UFO Symposium will have the
opportunity to meet with Kelly Cahill on Sunday, July 4th.  She
will be attending as a Symposium speaker, and will also be the
featured guest at the Fund for UFO Research's "Celebrity Brunch"
on the final day of the event.  Further details can be found at
the Fund's web site at:






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                Re: Jet Crew Tell Of Close Encounter With UFO

From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:21:04 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:39:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Jet Crew Tell Of Close Encounter With UFO


>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Jet Crew Tell Of Close Encounter With UFO
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 05:45:08 GMT

>Source: The (Daily) Mirror, April 28,

>http://www.mirror.co.uk:80/stories/F2804934.html

>First found: 27 Apr 1999.

>Stig

>***

>Jet Crew Tell Of Close Encounter With UFO

<snip>

Another report from the Evening Standard (London) for 27th
April, which I forgot to post yesterday!


UFO mystery as pilots see red

by Ed Harris

An unidentified object described as "a great red light in the
sky" and "big as a battleship" has caused consternation in the
skies over the North Sea.

Pilots reported being buzzed by a "long, cylindrical object" at
28,000ft and one pilot and his crew described how the underside
of their jet became bathed in an "incandescent light".

The Civil Aviation Authority has confirmed that a comprehensive
report of the sightings has been handed in, although both it and
the Ministry of Defence deny that they are investigating it.

The Luton-based plane, a Debonair BAe146, was flying company
executives from Sweden to Humberside airport when, it is
claimed, the object came to a sudden halt before speeding by the
airliner in the incident on 3 February, 58 miles off the coast
of Denmark.

John Hayes

jhayes@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com
UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/
AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:-
        http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/





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   Apr > Apr 29

                        Dreamy Draw/Cave Creek Crash

From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:22:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:44:44 -0400
Subject: Dreamy Draw/Cave Creek Crash


Can anyone help Donald with the query below please?


From: ARTGUY6331@aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:53:41 EDT
Subject: Dreamy Draw/Cave Creek Crash
To: webmaster@ufoinfo.com


I read something about a crash in the late 40S early 50S in the
Phoenix Metro area, specifically at the Dreamy Draw Dam and
wreckage at Cave Creek. Do you know how i could get more info or
the original article?

Thank yOU

Ron Matteson
============

Thanks,


John Hayes

jhayes@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com
UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/
AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences:-
        http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/





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                    Amberley Airshow [Australia] Question

From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:21:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:13:36 -0400
Subject: Amberley Airshow [Australia] Question

Can anyone help Donald with the query below please?

---

From: Donald Moss <donbaby@email.msn.com>
To: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Subject: Question?
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:50:46 -0700


Can you tell me the exact date of the Amberley Airshow held in
QLD in October of 1986.  This is the airshow in which a UFO was
observed during the verticle flight of an F-15.

Thanks,

Donald W. Moss
donbaby@msn.com

===============

Thanks,

John Hayes

jhayes@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com
UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/
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        http://ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/





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                          Re: First 'Grey' Report?

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 99 17:45:50 PDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:23:01 -0400
Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?


>From: Jesus Millan Arias <jesusmillan@mx3.redestb.es>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?
>Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:19:55 +0200

>Thanks for your information. It is very good, but I'm looking
>for stories or 'tales' with not only "dwarfs" (like the two
>first reports from Larry). The report from Jerry is very
>interesting and close to my interest but it lacks some physical
>features.

>I know ancient descriptions of bizarre dwarf-beings in some
>cultures (p.ex Jinnas or Irish Little People), but I would like
>to know when the was first (pre-60's) description of a 'typical'
>grey: big black slanted eyes, big inverted-pear head, "dwarf",
>thin legs, thin mouth........

Jesus,

There are, as you know, many stories told by modern abductees of
encounters with gray entities going back to the 1950s and even
earlier.  How reliable are they?  I went back to find if there
are accounts told, reported, and published before the modern
abduction era (dating from 1965, when the Hills's experience
first saw print in a Boston newspaper). My point was to
eliminate any possibility of confabulation or false memory. The
only account of a gray alien, it turns out, that comes even
close is the alleged Austria encounter which I discussed.  As
you correctly point out, the match is not exact, only general,
and there are serious problems with the evidence for its
occurrence, which is effectively nonexistent.

A pre-1965 exact description of a classic gray entity, if it
exists, is out there still waiting to be found.  Until (or
unless) it is, I'd urge healthy caution -- another word is
skepticism -- in investigators as they sift through
retrospective abductee testimony.

Jerry Clark





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                                UFO ICQ GROUP

From: Lloyd WA Cosway <floyd@enterprise.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:07:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:56:05 -0400
Subject: UFO ICQ GROUP


The ICQ #UFO site has been up for just over a year now.

There are over 50 members on the site.

It is easy to join and a valuable resource.

Check to see if you can find that long lost contact.

http://groups.icq.com/group.asp?no=23908

Regards
floydy
alias, pathFINDR, Temra
Lloyd WA Cosway BSc HND





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                             Art Bell Is Gone!?

From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 02:03:50 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:54:32 -0400
Subject: Art Bell Is Gone!?



Source - http://www.stephens-behold.com/index.html

News Break
4-28-1999 @10PM MST
ART BELL IS GONE

Officially: Jacor is testing 10 replacement hosts.
Unofficially to Stephens-Behold.com:

Jacor DID suspend Art Bell on the afternoon of
4-14-1999 for his remark:

"It is time to start slitting some throats"
(see picture and threat here )
http://www.stephens-behold.com/slitting%20throats.html
______________
$1,000,000,000 lawsuit and litigation by Stephens
(and Plaintiffs) to be announced. (6 other individuals also named
in suit) Porno admission transcript to be released with lawsuit
announcement since these assholes are just jacking Behold around
with more bellshit.
_____________________________
Reap the Whirlwind.
Behold.


---






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              ETs: Is Astronomy Refashioning The Images Of God?

From: stig.agermose@get2net.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 04:19:52 GMT
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:21:09 -0400
Subject: ETs: Is Astronomy Refashioning The Images Of God?


Source: Star-Telegram, Fort Worth, Texas,

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/doc/1047/1:RELIGION33/1:RELIGION33042799.h=
tml

Stig

***

Updated: Tuesday, Apr. 27, 1999 at 14:33 CDT

Is astronomy refashioning the images of God?

By Karen R. Long
c. 1999 Religion News Service

WASHINGTON -- The hope that humanity is not alone in the
universe heated up earlier this month with news of the first
solar system outside our own.

Astronomers meeting with theologians at the Smithsonian Museum
of Natural History rushed to update their slides and reword
their presentations, admitting that their e-mail had been
buzzing with speculation for weeks. After 11 years of
painstaking observations, researchers announced April 15 they
had detected a trio of extrasolar planets orbiting Upsilon
Andromedae, a star similar to our own sun about 44 light-years
from Earth.

"You can expect the announcement of dozens of new planets over
the next several years, gaseous as well as rocky planets,"
declared Harvard University astrophysicist David Latham, who is
running his own search at the Keck Observatory in Hawaii.

"When I got here Tuesday we had 17 (planets outside our system);
now we have 19," said Jill Tarter, director of SETI, the Search
for Extraterrestrial Intelligence project, and the model for
Jodie Foster's character in the movie "Contact."

"I really do have the best job in the world," said Tarter,
beaming at an eclectic audience gathered at the Smithsonian to
ask if the new boom in cosmology was beginning to answer the
oldest questions about God and the universe. "Every morning I
get up and strive to solve some technical challenge and each day
I learn something new, often from the diverse disciplines
engaged by this question: Are we alone in the cosmos?"

The 400 assembled included Noble laureates and Montessori
teachers, Mormon scientists from Salt Lake City and brown-robed
monks from St. Anselm's Abbey, a retired Dallas couple who
learned of the conference on the Internet and Nate
Ewert-Krocker, a 14-year-old boy from Concord Township in Lake
County, Ohio whose parents thought he might be interested.

Into this mix waded a few theologians, who are starting to work
on how the discovery of extraterrestrial life might recast
notions of God. What might happen to the three Abrahamic
religions -- Islam, Judaism and Christianity -- with their
concepts of "the chosen," and "the special elect, if God turns
out to have other children?

"Any encounter would be a chance to broaden our understanding of
the divine," said John F. Haught, a theology professor at
Georgetown University. "The fact that we have SETI illustrates
our cosmic impulse at socialization. It would not be so
surprising that other civilizations are centralized and reaching
out toward us."

Owen Gingerich, a Harvard University professor of astronomy and
a conference organizer, said, "From a perspective of religious
humility, we are not in a position to limit God's creativity to
us."

Some scientists, such as Harvard University anthropologist Irven
DeVore, don't care how many planets the astronomers manage to
count. "I personally cannot discern a shred of evidence for a
benign, cosmic presence," he said. "I look at evolution and I
see indifference and capriciousness. What kind of God works with
a 99.9 percent extinction rate?"

Researchers are eager to find out. Kenneth Nealson, NASA's top
astrobiologist, is leading a quartet of Mars missions over the
next decade designed to retrieve rocks from the surface and
scour them for hints of microbial life.

"From my point of view, as a microbiologist, we need to figure
out how to broaden the search, broaden our horizons," he said.
"My guess is we'll have a boost of knowledge about our solar
system equivalent to the Apollo coming back from the moon and
putting samples into our hands."

Although SETI rents radio telescopes and systematically listens
to portions of the night sky for signals that might indicate
war, transportation, energy-making or communication of an
advanced technological society, Nealson suspects the majority of
life in the universe would be of a more humble sort.

"From the point of view of SETI, Earth would have scored as
negative until we developed radio waves about 70 years ago,
despite the pyramids and everything else here," Nealson said.

As the lead project scientist on the NASA Mars robotic missions,
Nealson is very conservative about the likelihood of lucking
onto extrasolar life in a few scoops of debris from Mars. When
pinned down, he thinks Callisto, a moon of Jupiter, might be the
best candidate for nonterrestrial life in this solar system. But
current technology precludes any effort to go there: Propulsion
systems are not powerful enough to break the gravity of Jupiter
to bring samples back.

Nevertheless, NASA and its partner agency in France are
committing close to $1 billion on the four Mars robotic
missions. Astronomer Gingerich said this was similar to the King
of Denmark supplying a ton of gold to support Tycho Brahe's
16th-century observatory. The drive to answer such questions
goes very deep.

"Finding a second Genesis in our solar system would greatly
strengthen the argument for plentiful life in the universe,"
Tarter said. She also thinks it might mean a lot to humanity.

"For me, I always have this Pollyanna hat I wear," she said,
"that given independent evolution of life somewhere else, we
would have to recognize the differences between ourselves and
any others would be vast, and this would trivialize any
differences among humans, the tribal differences with which we
now have so many difficulties."

But Haught, the Georgetown theologian, was more interested in
what advanced extraterrestrial life might have in common with
humanity.

"ET would share our cosmological limits, the constraints of
physical laws and entropy," Haught said. "If alive and
intelligent, ET could share our capacity for religion. Would ET
know about fate, suffering, death or guilt? Would there be a
possibility of sharing our mutual creation stories?"

Haught said some believers might take news of extraterrestrial
intelligence as opportunity to evangelize, as Cleveland author
Mary Doria Russell explored in her fictional book, "The
Sparrow," about Jesuit missionaries jumping the gun into space.

But Seth Shostak, a SETI scientist, warned the religionists
against becoming too cozy with the idea they can rejigger their
theology to make room for extraterrestrial intelligence. He
pointed to the 18th-century reaction of the people on the South
Sea Islands when Capt. James Cook sailed into their harbors.

"They took one look at his ship, his guns, his wheels and
assumed his religion must be more advanced," Shostak said, "and
they threw off their religion for his."

Some of those least inclined at the three-day Smithsonian
conference to sit still for such speculation were the
evolutionary biologists.

"I've been waffling on my own opinion," said professor Sara Via,
a University of Maryland expert in ecological genetics. "It's
not at all obvious to me that the evolution of intelligent life
is inevitable."

It took an asteroid to clear the decks of dinosaurs so mammals
might evolve, an asteroid that would have missed striking Earth
altogether if it had been 20 minutes earlier or later. It took
blue-green algae 1.4 billion years of photosynthesis to alter
the atmosphere permanently so oxygen-breathers could emerge. And
it took surviving a very close call when monkeys nearly wiped
out apes because apes, from which humans descend, cannot eat
unripe fruit.

"Natural selection is ongoing and blind, a zig-zagging
opportunistic course," Harvard's DeVore said. "If you remember
only one thing, remember that 99.9 percent of all species have
gone extinct. With perhaps 50 billion species over the history
of the planet, only one achieved the ability to send radio
signals."

Tarter and Shostak wager that the universe is so big there must
be more, because there are more stars than grains of sands on
all the beaches of Earth. At SETI headquarters in Mountain View,
Calif., the team keeps a bottle of chilled champagne on ice.

"Even if the evolution of biological intelligence is very rare,"
Shostak said, "it can't be zero probability, because we are
here."


Distributed by The Associated Press (AP)

=A9 1999 Star-Telegram, Fort Worth, Texas -- Terms and Conditions

Serving the online community since 1982!





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                       Who Are These Mysterious Pilots

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:18:29 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:18:10 -0400
Subject: Who Are These Mysterious Pilots


Dear Errol and all,

I heard a story today from a very reputable person about an
incident in Hawaii in January. This man went to visit his son
who is stationed in the Navy.

There are some guest beach cabins up the coast but still on
government territory.

One morning, my friend woke up to the roar of jets over the
cabin. He ran outside to see them (he was not sure what make)
fly overhead. They were black with no markings. He said he was
so close he could see the bolts.

He asked his son.

His son told him he had seen them land on the base once before.
He had gone to one of the pilots and asked one of them which
branch they were with. They just said "government and they were
testing." They cut the conversation short as if they had said
enough and left.

Does anyone know what these pilots would be doing or who they
could possibly represent? He seems to think they were involved
with the CIA.

Is there a logical answer here?





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                            Greg's E-Mail Glitch

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:16:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:36:02 -0400
Subject: Greg's E-Mail Glitch


While I was out of town, a problem developed with my e-mail. Now
it's fixed, but anything sent from 4/23 through the morning of
4/29 never got to me.

So if anyone commented on my hypnosis posts, I wasn't able to
see it. Apologies....and apologies to Errol, too, in case there
was any confusion about my status on this list.

Greg Sandow





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              Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'

From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:03:07 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:29:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'


>Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 01:18:52 -0700
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Dear Don:

>It wasn't all that dull, judging by the headache I suffered as a
>result.

>I will check out the site.

>I would still like to know if you believe William Lyne's lengthy
>and somewhat novel list of assertions, from the original
>posting you made some days ago... in whole or in part.

>If in part, which parts?

Larry,

I bought the book a few weeks back. It is one, no, the _only_
book I have seen that takes the firm view that the "secret
government" stole Tesla's propulsion system and used it to make
man-made UFOs, at Los Alamos, and White Sands, during the
earlier part of this century. The author, Bill Lyne, is of the
firm contention that not only are UFOs man-made, that also
there are _no_ "alien abductions" and that Roswell, far from
being the "crashed saucer" event, was actually two bungled
events, one right after the other to cover up the Tesla man-made
flying saucers. One event involved shaved rhesus monkies, the
other was the infamous "weather balloon explanation" we've all
come to know so well.

Lyne's contention is that the cover-up was done to hide the
"true" nature of the man-made Tesla saucer work, and to use
"extraterrestrial" thesis to obfuscate and divert any attention
away from Tesla propulsion technology being utilized. To that
end, "alien abductions" are a means to put the attention "out
there" instead of what took place at Los Alamos in the 30's and
40's with Werhner von Braun and the "Kreisel-Teller" Nazi flying
saucer research work alleged to have taken place in NM during
this time.

I personally accept, after looking at the Roswell hubris of the
last few years, there was no crashed saucer, no extraterrestrial
"aliens", and it's been a dog chasing it's tail for years on
Roswell. Insofar as Lyne claims about the bungled events
regarding Roswell, I can accept it. I can also accept his view
that there are no "alien abductions" occuring either. There's no
solid proof, in my opinion.

Insofar as Lyne's extreme claims, I have no reason to "believe"
any of these claims, at face value. I don't put any stock in
"belief" unless I can damned well prove it to myself, in
research as having a factual basis. I am quite capable of
entertaining possibilities, but that doesn't mean I accept them
as proven fact. Lyne's book is interesting to the degree I've
not heard these kinds of arguments posed before. His CV isn't a
lightweight - Top Secret clearance in Air Force Intelligence,
earned a B.S. degree with a double major in Art and Industrial
Technology, acquired an M.F.A. in Studio Arts from Univ of
Texas at Austin. Worked in the Peace Corps. Was offered a high
position at the CIA and turned it down. Has patents to his name
on some inventions, and includes an invention in his book, "The
Dyna-Lyne Universal Variable Pneumatic or Hydraulic Transmission
System", giving the public unlimited right to the invention. Has
newspapers articles about himself, included in the book.
Documents a considerable amount of persecution in his dealings
with the New Mexico Patent Office.

Has his first "UFO" sighting in New Mexico in 1953, which he
documents in full detail. He patently doesn't buy into most of
Ufology's leading "experts" and definately names a few names,
some on _this_ list, as CIA/OSI moles lackeys, minions and
dis-information spinners. (loud chuckle).

He's got a web site up at:

http://www.trufax.org/lyne/lyne.html

He summarizes some of this on the website and also gives his
views on Roswell. It's a safe bet to say he's opinionated. <g> I
believe he does have an email address listed at the web site, if
you're so inclined to pursue his claims further. The book is an
interesting read.


Regards,

Don




---






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                      Re: Dreamy Draw/Cave Creek Crash

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 02:01:27 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:38:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Dreamy Draw/Cave Creek Crash


>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:22:00 +0100
>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
>Subject: Dreamy Draw/Cave Creek Crash

>Can anyone help Donald with the query below please?

>From: ARTGUY6331@aol.com
>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:53:41 EDT
>Subject: Dreamy Draw/Cave Creek Crash
>To: webmaster@ufoinfo.com

>I read something about a crash in the late 40S early 50S in the
>Phoenix Metro area, specifically at the Dreamy Draw Dam and
>wreckage at Cave Creek. Do you know how i could get more info or
>the original article?

>Thank you

Dear John, Ron and/or Donald:

That's a tough order.

I have two Cave Creek,AZ incidents, one in recent years and one
on 14OCT47. The 1947 incident didn't involve a crash or even a
landing however. 2 pilots plus a third observer claim they saw a
3 foot "flying wing" headed to the Southeast at 380 MPH; at 8 -
10 thousand feet altitude.

Walt Andrus himself, as a child, and numerous others saw 4
silver saucers fly East to West, flipping over in sequence, on
15AUG1948. Again no crash or landing. MUFON Journal #197 and
also Ronald Story, Encyclopedia/UFOs.

I do have a saucer landing report at Tintown ( near Bisbee ) on
27JUN47, but that's far Southeast of Phoenix, while Cave Creek
is to the North. Ref. Lorenzen: F.S. the Startling Evidence,
paperback pg 17.

A Navy pilot reported the 30JUN47 incident, somewhere South of
the Grand Canyon. Here two 12-foot saucers made violent
maneuvers and landed. Ref. Vallee/Magonia case #59.

The only "crash" incident here, might be the well known case of
21MAY53. According to Leonard Stringfield, some engineer was
taken on a blacked out bus to a place he reckons was near
Kingman, AZ. He reported a 30-foot crashed saucer, plus a 4-foot
dead humanoid hidden in a military tent. See Stringfield:
Situation Red, page 208.

There is another mention in Jerome Clark's Encyclopedia (vol. 3
for 1960-1979) on page 131 if my records are correct. I believe
Raymond Fowler touched on it too, but cannot recall the exact
reference.

Hoping this helps..






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                          Re: First 'Grey' Report?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:39:28 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:44:41 -0400
Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 99 17:45:50 PDT

>>From: Jesus Millan Arias <jesusmillan@mx3.redestb.es>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?
>>Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:19:55 +0200

>>Thanks for your information. It is very good, but I'm looking
>>for stories or 'tales' with not only "dwarfs" (like the two
>>first reports from Larry). The report from Jerry is very
>>interesting and close to my interest but it lacks some physical
>>features.

>>I know ancient descriptions of bizarre dwarf-beings in some
>>cultures (p.ex Jinnas or Irish Little People), but I would like
>>to know when the was first (pre-60's) description of a 'typical'
>>grey: big black slanted eyes, big inverted-pear head, "dwarf",
>>thin legs, thin mouth........

>Jesus,

>There are, as you know, many stories told by modern abductees of
>encounters with gray entities going back to the 1950s and even
>earlier.  How reliable are they?  I went back to find if there
>are accounts told, reported, and published before the modern
>abduction era (dating from 1965, when the Hills's experience
>first saw print in a Boston newspaper). My point was to
>eliminate any possibility of confabulation or false memory. The
>only account of a gray alien, it turns out, that comes even
>close is the alleged Austria encounter which I discussed.  As
>you correctly point out, the match is not exact, only general,
>and there are serious problems with the evidence for its
>occurrence, which is effectively nonexistent.

>A pre-1965 exact description of a classic gray entity, if it
>exists, is out there still waiting to be found.  Until (or
>unless) it is, I'd urge healthy caution -- another word is
>skepticism -- in investigators as they sift through
>retrospective abductee testimony.

>Jerry Clark


Hi, Jerry

Further to the above and to my posted reply on this question.
The Dar-es-Salaam 'grey' from l950 is as you say a modern report
that post dates l965 by a long way. The Venezuela gynaecologist
case from August l965 has always intrigued me because although
the witnesses did not see a grey they met aliens professing to
know of them and describing their activities.

Do you also know when the Villa Santina, Italy case was actually
first documented. I realised - and mentioned in my posted note -
that this was reported after its alleged occurrence in August
l947 but when? Here the entities were about as like the greys as
any early case I know.

Certainly in my study of British cases there are no obvious
greys at all until well into the l980's. Most - even
hypnotically pursued - CE 4 s until about l985 had more human
like or Nordic beings. The classic Telford encounter (pursued in
l982/l983 with hypnosis on all three witnesses) produced
different entity types with each witness and one of these was
somewhat grey like.  It is all the more apparent when you see
how - after the massive import of greys into British culture
circa l987 (via the books of Strieber and Hopkins) the previous
pattern of British aliens virtually disappeared overnight and
now you are hard pressed NOT to find greys. There has to be
significance in this. I talked it over with Budd Hopkins and he
says that the greys were always in Brirtish cases but witnesses
never knew it because the more friendly alien types acted as
cover to protect the subconscious, Well, maybe. But equally, it
has to be possible that the form the entity takes in a story is
culturally modified. Thats my bet.

I have delved a bit into this in my next book - pathetically
titled by my publisher 'The complete book of Aliens and
Abductions' (out in August from Piatkus). It has sections
looking at the timeline of alien development and also around 20
country sections looking from culture to culture at how alien
reports have developed. You see from that how Britain is not
alone at adopting greys very late in the day - not after the
Betty & Barney Hill affair (which presumably had much bigger
impact in the US) but after  the l987 watershed following
Strieber's global publicity.

They do say that once is coincidence and twice a conspiracy.
Here it is safer to say that there is more going on that just an
invasion by greys and that something is occurring at the level
of human consciousness on a cultural level.

Jenny Randles





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                  Re: P-47: UFO History: A Call for Papers

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:51:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:51:52 -0400
Subject: Re: P-47: UFO History: A Call for Papers


EVEN MORE REMARKABLE
The USS Supply Sighting of 1904

by
Bruce Maccabee

In his premier issue of the "UFO Historical Review," author
Barry Greenwood has presented what would seem to be a reasonable
explanation for a sighting of three glowing bodies passing
through the atmosphere by several members of the crew of the USS
Supply, a Naval ship, on February 28, 1904.  Greenwood has made
the not-surprising suggestion that these were meteors.  The main
factors that seem inconsistent with the meteor hypothesis are
the claims that (a) the meteors "did come below the clouds"
estimated at about 1 mile (1.6 km) high, (b) they did "soar
instead of continuing their southeasterly course" which would
have taken them over the ship and (c) they were seen for "over
two minutes." The quotes are from the report written by Lt.
Frank H. Scofield as published in the Monthly Weather Review,
March, 1904 and reproduced below.  (Note: Scofield eventually
became the Chief of Naval Operations.)  The meaning of "soar" as
used here is that the glowing objects appeared to travel roughly
horizontally (constant altitude) below the clouds as they
approached the ship, and then they appeared to climb through the
cloud altitude and move directly away from the ship, to "soar"
into the heavens, at a constant angular elevation of about 75
degrees (but not radially away from the center of the earth; the
angular elevation would have to be 90 degrees for a radial
departure).  Scofield's report, entitled "Remarkable Meteors,"
begins as the objects were first sighted by the Officer of the
Deck and then by two other people on deck.  The objects
"appeared near the horizon and below the clouds, traveling in a
group from northwest by north (true) directly toward the ship.
At first their angular motion was rapid and color a rather
bright red.  As they approached the ship they appeared to soar,
passing above the clouds at an elevation of about 45 deg.  After
rising above the clouds their angular motion became less and
less until it ceased, when they appeared to be moving direcly
away from the earth at an elevation of about 75 deg. and in
direction west-northwest (true). It was noted that the color
became less pronounced as the meteors gained in angular
elevation.  When sighted the largest meteor was in the lead,
followed by the second in size at a distance of less than twice
the diameter of the larger and then by the third in size at a
similar distance from the second in size.  They appeared to be
traveling in echelon and so continued as long as in sight.  The
largest meteor had an apparent area of about six suns.  It was
egg shaped, the sharper end forward.  This end was jagged in
outline.  The after end was regular and full in outline.  The
second and third meteors were round and showed no imperfections
in shape.  The second meteor was estimated to be twice the size
of the sun in appearance and the third meteor about the size of
the sun.  When  the meteors rose there was no change in relative
position; nor was there at any time any evidence of rotation or
tumbling of the larger meteor.  I estimated the clouds to be not
over 1 mile high.  The near approach of these meteors to the
surface and the subsequent flight away from the surface appear
to be most remarkable, especially so as their actual size could
not have been great.  That they did come below the clouds and
soar instead of continuing their southeasterly course is also
equally certain, as the angular motion ceased and the color
faded as they rose. The clouds, in passing between the meteors
and the shop completely obscured the former.  Blue sky could be
seen in the intervals between the clouds. The meteors were in
sight for over two minutes and were carefully observed by three
people, whose accounts agree as to details. (the Officer on
Deck) sent a messenger to me who brought an untelligible
message.  When I arrived on the bridge the meteors had been
obscured for about one-half minute." Lt. Scofield carefully
interviewed the witnesses shortly after the sighting and then
compiled this report which would have us believe that "meteors"
traveled "in echelon" (a flying formation) underneath the 1 mile
high cloud layer and then rose upward, passing above the cloud
layer and apparently moving directly away from the ship.  As
Greenwood pointed out in his article, the statement that they
were traveling for a period of time below the clouds is
sufficient to reject the meteor hypothesis.  The report of
traveling  "in echelon" and then rising upward above the clouds
further contradicts the meteor explanation.  Nevertheless,
Greenwood argues that these were meteors for the following
reasons:

1).  although the witnesses claimed that the objects were below
the clouds, this was an "optical illusion" because they were
initially at a very great distance near the horizon; they only
appeared to the "below the clouds"; they were only seen through
"intervals" in the cloud cover; hence they could have been far
above the clouds.

2).  the initial great distance made them look red (atmospheric
reddening, as with sunlight on the horizon) and as they traveled
along they got closer to the ship so the distance light had to
travel through the atmosphere continually decreased and the red
color diminished.

3).  the existence of three objects can be explained as a result
of a single large meteor breaking into three parts.

4).  there were no trails reported, but meteors don't always
have trails.

5).  the two minute duration is not inconsistent with known
durations of meteors (Greenwood cites a 100 sec meteor
observation in 1972).

These reasons seem "reasonable."  And yet, Scofield seemed
"awfully certain" that these objects were below the clouds.  As
Greenwood stated in his article, "...if the objects were below a
cloud cover...it is unlikely that they were meteors without
their having impacted nearby.  It also strains logic to think
that large meteors would take an upward turn that close to the
surface and disappear from view."

More than 20 years ago, when I became interested in this
sighting report (published in NICAP's UFO Evidence) I decided to
do something no one else had ever done (and Greenwood did not
do).  I decided to check the original record to see if there was
anything left out of Scofield's report. There was.

The log of the U. S. Naval Ship Supply is at the National
Archives. For the date and time in question we read: "0400 -
0800 Cloudy to fair; light breeze from WSW; at 0600 wind shifted
to SW; steaming on course NE(1/4)E; executed morning orders;
steam 125 lbs., revolutions 64.6.  At 0610 three large bodies
appeared in the sky traveling from NW(1/2)W.  The largest one
egg or pear shaped, with sharp point and ragged edge to full
body aft.  In size it appeared to be six times the size of the
sun.  The next one was round and about twice the size of the
sun.  The third one was round and about twice the size of the
sun. They were in echeleon (sic) when first seen and were below
the clouds and traveling fast and rising to directly overhead.
They were dull red in color and were in sight about three
minutes.  The largest body would cover all of them.  When first
seen were like an airship."

Supplemental information registered in the log at 0600 hours
includes: "wind 9.8 knots, SE, force 2, barometer 30.38, air
temperature 62, water temperature 58" and the all-important
information on clouds that is only hinted at by Scofield:
"stratus, moving from north, coverage 9." Stratus are
horizontally layered cloud caused by atmospheric cooling over
large horizontal areas.  They are not very thick vertically and
can exist from the surface (where they are essentially fog) up
to a mile or more. "Coverage 9" indicates that the sky was about
90% covered by the cloud layer which was moving southward
(coming from the north).

Mr. Greenwood's hypothesis is that the supposed meteor (which
subsequently broke up) entered the atmosphere hundreds of miles
from the ship in the direction of the initial view (NW by 1/2 W
or about 292 degrees azimuth).  It's track took it directly
toward the ship as it curved around the surface of the earth.
Subsequently it began to glow and then split into three parts.
Eventually it became visible to the Supply officers on deck
while at a distance of perhaps 800 km or about 500 miles.  For
Greenwood's hypothesis hypothesis to work it would be necessary
that there be NO cloud cover in the direction of the meteors
when they were first seen and, furthermore, that there was no
cloud cover in the direction of the meteors until the they got
much closer to the ship at an angular elevation of about 45
degrees when they reportedly rose through the cloud layer.  It
would be at this time that clouds started to block the direct
view.  This means that there had to be a "slot" or opening in
the 90% cloud cover from the horizon up to an angular elevation
of at least 45 degrees, with the axis of this slot aligned with
the azimuth of the "meteors." This is, of course, possible, but
highly unlikely considering the layered nature of stratus
clouds.

Mr. Greenwood's hypothesis as described and illustrated by his
drawings can be illustrated by imagining a straight line path of
a meteor above the curved surface of the earth.  Assume this
meteor started to glow at an altitude of about 100 km (60
miles), then penetrated the atmosphere to a depth of about 50 km
(30 miles) and then continued along a substantially straight
path that took it away from the earth, probably becoming
invisible as it reached once again about 100 km altitude.  It
would have reached 100 km just before it was over the ship so
that it's highest observed angular elevation would have been
about 75 degrees. (Note: the actual track of a meteor this close
to the earth is a slight curve with radius much greater than the
radius of the earth, 6328 km or about 4,000 miles.  However, use
of a curved-path in this illustration would seriously complicate
the analysis and provide little further information.  Of course,
the "ultimate" curved path for a non-crashing object is parallel
to the surface of the earth, i.e., an orbit with radius of
curvature (6328 + H), where H is the minimum height of the
object.  No grazing meteor track would have a radius this
small.)  Further, his hypothesis would require that the first
view of this meteor (or group) was at the time that it was about
at it's lowest altitude.  Assume, then, that it was 50 km high
when first seen.  By geometry one can show that if it was first
seen at 50 km altitude while traveling along a straight path
that would pass through 100 km altitude over the ship, then its
distance would have been about 800 km or 500 miles away and it
would have been right on the horizon.  Initially the angular
elevation would have increased slowly, but then the rate of
increase of elevation would itself increase, being the most
rapid as the meteors disappeared nealy over the ship (with
looking almost straight up as the meteors traveled nearly a
horizontal path over the ship), in contradiction to Mr.
Greenwood's suggestion that the rate of increase of angular
elevation would decrease as the meteors moved away from the
earth.

If the meteors were climbing out of the atmosphere, and hence
cooling and hence glowing less as they approached the ship, they
might fade to invisibility before passing over the ship but at
no time would the angular elevation seem to stop increasing as
long as the meteors were visible.  In other words, there is no
way that glowing meteors could appear to stop their approach to
overhead, i.e., to stop the increase in angular elevation, and
then fade out as if moving directly away from the ship at an
elevation of 75 degrees.  The observation that the angular
elevation ceased to increase once it reached about 75 degrees
seems to be completely incompatible with the meteor hypothesis.

Mr. Greenwood has suggested that a sighting duration of "over
two minutes" is unusual, but not an impossible meteor duration.
Of course, we see now that the actual observer who wrote the
entry into the ship's log placed the duration at about 3
minutes, so Scofield was being conservative. A good question to
ask at this point would be, what is the longest duration that
one might expect to see a meteor? I answered this question some
20 years ago at a time when the Coyne-helicopter case was being
debated.  Since Greenwood referred to the 1972 fireball meteor,
let's use it as an example.  It became visible when it was about
90 km high and at it's lowest it was about 60 km high.  This was
a "skipping meteor" which passed through the upper atmosphere of
the earth, glowed, and then "bounced off" the atmosphere and
continued its travels through the void of space (having suffered
a severe deviation from its initial track).  Now imagine as
before a straight line cutting through a circle, where the
circle represents that atmosphere at 90 km altitude (above the
circular earth) and the straight line is a good approximation to
the path of a meteor.  The closest distance of the straight line
to the surface is 60 km.  One can show using geometry that the
**straight line path** from 90 km above the surface down to 60
km and back up to 90 km (5 degrees elevation) is a distance of
about 1250 km.  The 1972 fireball traveled at roughly 14.5
km/sec on average.  If we use this as an estimated speed for the
Supply "fireballs" than, if someone had watched it from the
beginning to the end of its glow, he would have seen it for
about 1250/14.5 = 86 seconds (an observer exactly under the
center of the glowing path would see this travling from horizon
to horizon in 86 seconds).  (Note: the 1972 meteor approached
the earth from behind at about 10 km/sec, but then accelerated
as it got closer and was traveling at about 14.5 km/sec relative
to the surface of the earth at its closest approach.)  Of
course, the meteor did not travel in a straight line, but rather
curved over the earth and hence traveled a slightly longer path
in the atmosphere than calculated here.  A space satellite that
observed the meteor in infra-red light estimated the glow path
was about 1500 km and the duration of visibility to the
satellite was a bit over 100 seconds.  (This satellite was able
to detect the infra-red glow before the meteor made the
atmosphere hot enough to be visible to the eye, and then the
satellite was able to "see" the meteor longer then the naked
eye.)  This is the value quoted by Greenwood as if a ground
observer could have seen it for that duration, but, of course,
no ground observer could see it that long.  Actually the ground
observed durations ranged up to 1 minute with most of the
observations being 40 seconds or less.  The famous film of this
fireball lasts "only" 26 seconds.

One concludes from this analysis that it is virtually impossible
to see a meteor **from horizon to horizon** that lasts as long
as 100 seconds. The USS Supply officers sighted the meteors, not
from horizon to horizon, but at most about halfway, from the
horizon to overhead.  This would take half as long, say 50
seconds or less.  Hence the claimed duration of "over 2 minutes"
and perhaps as much as 3 minutes lies far outside the normal
meteor duration of visibility.  These were truly remarkable,
i.e., remarkably slow, meteors.  (Note that **orbiting** bodies
in low earth orbit could have observation durations this long,
but they would not escape the orbit, so they would not appear to
soar. Furthermore, to maintain a glow, such an orbiting body
would have to travel at a high altitude, far above the clouds to
avoid frictional energy loss that would slow it further and cool
it below glowing speed.)

The "bottom line" on the meteor hypothesis is that it is
strained, at the very least, by the observation that they
appeared to travel beneath the clouds (considering the 90% cloud
cover), strained even further by the observation that the
angular motion ceased and they appeared to travel directly away
from the ship, and finally it is rejected by the reported
duration of over 2 minutes.





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   Apr > Apr 29

              Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:51:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:56:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'


>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:58:38 -0600
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net>
>Subject: Excerpt from 'Space Aliens From The Pentagon'


>An excerpt from the book, 'Space Aliens from the Pentagon'
>Subtitle - Flying Saucers Are Man-Made Machines
>Author - William R. Lyne, copyright 1993, 1995
>Revised and expanded second edition
>ISBN 0-9637467-1-5
>$17.95
>William R. Lyne
>Creatopia Productions
>Lamy, New Mexico 87540
>(505) 466-3022

Total.
Not partial.
Total.
Wacko.





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                        Re: Removing Metal Implants?

From: Ben Field <ben@abcfield.force9.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:35:33 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:59:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Removing Metal Implants?


To all,

I received the email below and was wondering if anyone new of
someone, a doctor, that would remove this type of thing, I guess
he would be able to ask his doctor if he would remove it, and
ask for the peice of metal back afterwards, would anyone now of
someone that may be able to analyse this material also.

All the best

Ben Field
ben@abcfield.force9.co.uk
BUFOD
http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk


==Fowarded Email==

Hello, to whom it may concern, I decided last week to go in for
a medical general exam. The medical clinic is one that i have
been attending for over the last twenty years. My doctor, also
has been my physician for the same length of time over twenty
years and is quite familiar with all medical conditions that
exist. As part of my medical exam the RN thought it would be a
good idea to run a chest xray. MY blood pressure was 120 over 80
and my pulse was 72 beats the RN said, " like a book reading."
My age is 48 years old, I'm a non-drinker and smoker I also am a
avid runner. Now I just wanted to give you a little history
about myself; I went back today for a follow up of those tests
and everything is pretty good cholestrol is a little high and i
will be placed on some medication. Today as my doctor was asking
me general questions he stated that the xray of my chest show a
piece of metal under neath the skin about the size of the tip of
a pencil were his exact words. The doctor asked me if i was ever
shot by a pellet rifle. I said no and we both looked at each
other and shrugged our shoulders. I believe the last chest xrays
i had were about two years ago when i had post surgery
complications with phneumonia and staph infection. This is the
first time today that i have ever heard of this piece of metal
lodged under my skin in the chest area? I'am positive there is
no known reason or logical reason to explain this piece of metal
lodged in my chest. By that i mean I am not an war veteran or
ever participated in guns, gangs or other that would account for
something of this sort. I didn't dare bring this subject up with
my doctor today because of fear of ridicule. Is there some place
or persons that could remove this piece of metal as my doctor
calls it to know certain what it may be.






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   Apr > Apr 30

               Pilot Spots UFO/UFO Mag [UK] Building Collpase

From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:52:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 00:25:23 -0400
Subject: Pilot Spots UFO/UFO Mag [UK] Building Collpase


>From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
>From: gerry <ed@farshore.force9.co.uk>
>From Far Shores | http://www.farshore.force9.co.uk
- - - - - - - - - -

>Source: The Mirror / London
>Date: April 28 1999
>Headline: JET CREW TELL OF CLOSE ENCOUNTER WITH UFO

>A passenger jet's crew have reported a close encounter with an
>unidentified flying object.

>They said that they noticed an "incandescent" light below their
>Debonair BAe 146 as it headed over the North Sea from Sweden to
>Humberside.

>Then, they added, a long cylindrical silver-coloured object the
>size of a battleship flew alongside. The British plane's
>shocked captain saw what seemed to be rows of square portholes
>on the UFO before it vanished at "enormous speed".

>The crew told the Defence Ministry about their sighting. An RAF
>radar station tracked the object, which was seen from three
>other planes.

An intriguing story and referenced in greater detail in other
newspapers.

I can confirm that the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) are in
receipt of the report, but am told it contains no reference
whatsoever to the term 'battleship', which seasoned researchers
will know has cropped up before...

As an aside, we've had lots of calls regarding the collapse of
the gable-end of our office block late Tuesday night, 27 April.

These were prompted after news of the collapse featured on BBC
TV, Yorkshire TV, local radio and newspapers the following day.

A front-page photograph in the Telegraph & Argus newspaper that
Wednesday certainly made it appear that the entire building had
collapsed, but damage was restricted to the rear of the
two-storey block.

Here's what happened. I locked the office at 9.30pm on Tuesday
night and turned right to walk to my car. A few minutes later,
the rear of the building collapsed and tons of brickwork and
stone blocks cascaded down into a yard at the back and spilled
over on to the pavement.

Yes, if anyone had been walking on the pavement at that moment
they wouldn't have stood a chance, and yes, if I'd parked my car
in the car park to the left of the building and locked up a few
minutes later, it would have been curtains (either that or a
very sore head).

The police and fire crews were soon in attendance and staff and
customers at Johnsons public house (directly opposite our
building) were evacuated and the town centre of Ilkley sealed
off.

Thankfully no one was injured and although we can't occupy two
of our office rooms (backed on to the rear of the building)
until repairs are complete (which could take weeks or months) we
are OK to continue working elsewhere in the building.

It could have been a lot worse. Most of the building collapsed
into a rear yard which had several small rooms occupied by
Lloyds Bank staff (they have the ground floor). Their toilets
were there too, as was their main bank of computers, but all
were flattened to a pulp.

Currently, construction workers are making the rear of the
building safe, scaffolding has gone up around it (and up through
the ceiling in what remains of our two rear offices) and there
has obviously been a considerable amount of disruption.

Needless to say, a number of people have rung to ask what caused
the collapse (quite a few were surprised when we answered the
telephone).

All we know for certain is that it was due to a structural fault
in the gable end of the building, which is hundreds of years old
(although modernised inside).

It was not a bomb!

Anyone visiting Ilkley town centre can't help but notice the
damage. The street running between our building and Johnsons
public house was partially re-opened this afternoon (Thursday,
29 April) and cars can now enter and leave Ilkley's main car
park in single-line.

Hope this prevents any form of wild speculation emerging as news
filters out.

We were back at our desks first thing Wednesday morning, and
after dusting ourselves down 12 hours later, everything was back
'on-line'.

Thanks to those who rang expressing concern - much appreciated
by everyone here.

Best regards,

Graham W. Birdsall (Editor)

UFO Magazine [UK]





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   Apr > Apr 30

                       Leir Steps Down From F.I.R.S.T.

From: Jolene Rae Harrington <jrae@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:28:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:41:58 -0400
Subject: Leir Steps Down From F.I.R.S.T.


LEIR STEPS DOWN FR0M F.I.R.S.T.
SIMS GATHERS NEW "DREAM TEAM"


Pioneering abduction researcher Derrel Sims has asked for and
received the resignation of colleague Dr. Roger Leir as Medical
Director of Fund For Interactive Research in Space Technology,
the partnership they formed in 1996.  The team gained notoriety
when they became the first to remove alleged alien implants in a
controlled medical setting.

Sims stated that the medical responsibilities of FIRST are going
to require professionals with a broader scope and experience
than Leir possesses, who is a podiatrist.  Sims is currently
finalizing the selection of a team of medical, scientific, and
other uniquely-disciplined professionals to explore new research
released from Saber, Sims' organization specializing in
abduction research and the source for the original implant
material.

As related in Dr. Leir's book, THE ALIEN AND THE SCALPEL, Sims
and Leir met at a UFO convention where Simswas a featured
speaker. The initially skeptical podiatrist agreed to help
organize the surgical removal of an anomalous object from the
foot of one of Sims' patients.  Other surgeries followed, and
Sims and Leir formed the FIRST partnership to focus on the
medical and scientific analysis of the objects.  Recently, as
part of the NBC special Confirmation, Sims and Leir consulted on
the surgical removal of a possible alien implant.

Although some of the testing results of FIRST's work have been
available on their web site or discussed by other researchers,
Sims stresses that "much more testing and research is needed
before any conclusions can be drawn."  To this end, he has
formed strategic alliances with scientists from all over the
world eager to contribute their expertise.  A former private
investigator, Sims is extremely concerned with the special
handling, maintenance and archiving of samples and artifacts.
"Security and proper chain-of-evidence will be the hallmark of
FIRST from now on," he promises.

In addition, Sims has been invited by Helmut Lamaar of the
Austrian Space Research Institute to head up MILAB
abduction/implant work worldwide.  Meanwhile, Leir continues to
serve as Section Director for the Ventura County chapter of
MUFON.   "Dr. Leir's participation in the surgeries and the
follow-up has been an important part of FIRST," acknowledges
Sims.  "Now we are moving in an exciting new direction, with
improved efficiency and resources."

A new web site, www.alienimplants.com, is currently
underconstruction.  In the meantime, please visit
www.ALIENHUNTER.org, www.FIRSTevidence.org,
www.ALIENIMPLANTS.com (coming soon) for news about FIRST and
Saber projects.

 -30-

Media Liaison:  Jolene Rae Harrington
jrae@earthlink.net





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                 Sighting Report from OZ - Downed Satellite?

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:47:23 +1000
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:27:52 -0400
Subject: Sighting Report from OZ - Downed Satellite?


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian Research Network Hot Line Number
            1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************


Sighting Report

Date: 27th 4 1999
Time: 8.02pm
Day: Monday
Location: Waterford South Brisbane Qld

Report: Diane Harrison

Miss M Gordon said she was on her way home from the IMAX theatre
Brisbane heading toward Beenleigh, travelling down Logan Road
just past the hospital. When she noticed a very bright light
appear to fall from the Sky. It was the size of a foot ball.
Colour was a brilliant white to start, then has it got closer to
the horizon it changed from a white to a brilliant orange, it
had a very long tail. She said she watched it for some 3 seconds
then it looked like it crashed to the ground.
________________________________________________

UFOR NSW Doug Moffet Southern Highlands NSW

Called me and asked if anyone had reported the same object seen
near Barra. Doug said he called the Barra police station and
they said they had only 2 calls relating to the object the rest
where from the media.

He asked the Policeman what he thought it was Quote: A Satellite
crashing to earth. Dough is of the opinion as I am that it could
have been a Bholard I think I spelt it right <G> a type of
"Meteor".

The changing colour from white to orange indicates a carbon
object ,but lets say it was a Satellite, it would have to be big
to crash into the ocean " say the size of Mir and if it was a
satellite would the glow have been
more a greenish colour because of the Aluminium.

What do you say?

Thank you Doug Moffet of UFOR NSW for your help

Regards Diane Harrison
Australian Skywatch Director
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network

Ps I'm baffled by this Australian National Space Centre. It
would appear not even the Australian Government knows of this
one. <G>








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                      OZ Sighting Report - April 26 '99

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:09:35 +1000
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:31:05 -0400
Subject: OZ Sighting Report - April 26 '99


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
E-Mail tkbnetw@fan.net.au
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw

****************************************************************
UFO Australian Research Network Hot Line Number
            1800 77 22 88 Free Call
****************************************************************

Sighting Report

Date 26th 4 1999
Day: Monday
Time Reported: 6.14pm
Source: Darrell L
Location: MT Nebo, Brisbane QLD

Report By Robert Frola
E- mail  ufologist@powerup.com.au
Time: 9.45pm by telephone in brief

Darrell said a very large object appeared in the sky its was in
between the size of the moon and a large star, my friend Mat and
I saw it and so did my neighbours. Colour: Bright orange,
pulsating The object hovered for around twenty minutes then it
moved towards us and  then it moved away.It travelled in a North
Westerly direction. We called the RAAF base Amberley and I was
told there had been nothing reported. The object then moved
toward Mt Glorious and thats when we lost sight of it and then
we called you guys.

Still under investigation more details to come after a person
to person interview.

Thank you Robert Frola, of The Australian UFO Research Network
for this report


Regards Diane Harrison
Australian Skywatch Director
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network





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                         E-Mail Addresses Requested

From: Philip Mantle - QUEST <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:33:40 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:47:17 -0400
Subject: E-Mail Addresses Requested


Dear colleagues,

I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could provide e-mail
addresses of the following individuals:

Graham Hancock.
John Anthony West.
Colin Wilson.
Andy Collins.
Michael Baigent.
Robert Lomas.
Paul William Roberts.
John Lash.
Rand Flem Ath.
Dr Edmund Meltzer.
Yuri Stoyanov.
Richard Lea.
Michu Kaku.

Please forward to other interested parties and I would greatly
appreciate it if you could respond direct to me at:
pmquest@dial.pipex.com

Thank you,


Philip Mantle.
Assistant Editor.
Quest Magazine.






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                     Re: Who Are These Mysterious Pilots

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 00:59:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:49:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Who Are These Mysterious Pilots


Dear Kathleen and List:

>From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:18:29 EDT
>Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:18:10 -0400
>Subject: Who Are These Mysterious Pilots

<snip>

>... jets ... he was not sure what make ... They were black
>with no markings.

<snip>

>His son told him he had seen them land on the base once before.
>He had gone to one of the pilots and asked one of them which
>branch they were with. They just said "government and they were
>testing." They cut the conversation short as if they had said
>enough and left.

They probably had said all that they should have said.

>Does anyone know what these pilots would be doing or who they
>could possibly represent? He seems to think they were involved
>with the CIA.

>Is there a logical answer here?

Yes, probably. The man's son might have been right, or he might
not. In any case, I don't think that airplanes on a military
base should be cause for much excitement. Were they involved
with a UFO sighting?

Bob Young





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               Villa Santina 1947 Case (was: Re: First 'Grey'

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:41:03 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:54:20 -0400
Subject: Villa Santina 1947 Case (was: Re: First 'Grey'


At 23.44 29/04/99 -0400, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote:
>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?
>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:39:28 +0100

>Do you also know when the Villa Santina, Italy case was actually
>first documented. I realised - and mentioned in my posted note -
>that this was reported after its alleged occurrence in August
>l947 but when? Here the entities were about as like the greys as
>any early case I know.

Hello Jenny!

Glad to find somebody sharing my views.

Some UFO students interested in the human factors have been
discussing about the relevance of not only the "event date", but
also of the "account emergence date" of cases. A 1954 humanoid
first described by its witness during the 1978 media UFOria is
bound to have some correlation with the later, sometimes more
than with the former one. Ditto for a 1987 abductee reporting
his 1943 first abduction at the age of 7: would you properly
call that a pre-Arnold case?

As for your specific question: the so-called "Villa Santina
case" (note, the precise place was rather within the Raveo
territory, province of Udine) took place on August 14, 1947 and
its account was first (and only) published in issue No. 2 (May
1964) of the Italian pioneer UFO journal "Clypeus", in an
article ("I saw a Flying Saucer") by the witness himself, Luigi
Rapuzzi, under his usual pen-name of "L. R. Johannis".

As such, he was a rather known painter and a SF-writer, at that
time, as well as a flying saucer buff, living in Milan. He had
been a close friend of Gianni Settimo (Clypeus editor, and
leader of early UFO group Centro Studi Clipeologici) for some
years before 1964, the same year when he was asked to leave his
sign upon the famed Alassio "Muretto" wall of artists.

He had always been telling his 1947 encounter experience to his
friends, who knew it since at least the late '50s (Settimo
dixit). But only in 1963 did he accept to write it down and have
it published. At that same time he also painted his famous oil
portrait of the little humanoids, published in Clypeus issue No.
3 and later largely reprinted abroad, after FSR did report the
case (first in an incorrect version in its special issue "The
Humanoids" [1966], based upon a wrong Spanish/English
translation from Antonio Ribera's book, then reporting the
complete original text in Vol. 13 No. 1 [Jan/Feb 1967] and again
in the revised book version of "The Humanoids" [1969]). BTW, the
original of the drawings was found last year by Mr Settimo among
his huge collection of just everything, and he handed them to
me.

Luigi Rapuzzi was a very original character, as an artist, and
we had something about his life and works published in "Clypeus"
issue No. 59 (Nov/Dec 1979) by both Gianni Settimo ("Ricordo
dell'amico Johannis") and his girl-friend Maria Montuoro (an
account of "Paranormal experien- ces in Johannis' life"). Born
in 1905, he was a futurist painter, as I said.

He went to the USA just after his sightings in 1947, and from
there he  allegedly wrote down his experience plus some drawings
and sent it to an Italian weekly, which did publish nothing.
When he later came  back to Italy (1952), he went to the
editorial office and searched for his letter and drawings, but
in vain.

While in the USA he made decoration and reconstruction work in
Manhattan, and is claimed to have made the paintings for the
Catholic San Francis church in Glen Cove (would any New Yorker
try and check that?).

BTW, he was one of the very first people to conceive the
"ancient astronauts" thesis (which featured prominently in his
SF books and novels, published between 1954 and 1958). He even
claimed he had written a novel along such lines when in the USA,
in the early '50s, and that Desmond Leslie had simply copied
whole parts of it in his "Flying Saucers Have Landed". We had no
way to check this claim, of course.

Johannis did translate Leslie/Adamski's book in 1955, but could
not get an Italian publisher: I've got the manuscript, from Mr
Settimo, and therein Rapuzzi did write an appendix that could be
the first written - though  unpublished - version of his own
close encounter (but we have no way to confirm its date, apart
from Settimo's testimony).

He was the Milan representative of CSC UFO group until 1968,
when he died.

However, I do not agree that his entities looked like the
post-Strieber era greys, unless you call "greys" just any small
humanoid, whatever its aspect.

Johannis' humanoids  were much more akin to the typical little
humanoid of the 1954 French/Italian  wave. They were wearing a
brown helmet, had a red belt, a black suit. Their big, round
eyes were yellow- green in color and had a vertical slide (like
cats). Moreover, their skin was GREEN, not grey.

Best regards


Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it





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   Apr > Apr 30

                           Filer's Files #17 - 99

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:54:18 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:59:10 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #17 - 99


Filer's Files #17 --1999,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,   Mutual UFO Network Eastern Director,
April 30, 1999,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020

DO ALIEN POWERS EXIST?

In 1950, President Harry S. Truman stated, "I can assure you
that flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed
by any POWER on earth."  White House Press Conference on April
4, 1950.

In 1959, Dr. Wernher von Braun, a great space pioneer, made an
intriguing statement, reported in Germany.  Referring to the
deflection from orbit of the US Juno 2 rocket, he stated:  "We
find ourselves faced by POWER far stronger than we had hitherto
assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to us.  More I
cannot say at present.  We are now engaged in entering into
closer contact with those POWERS, and in six or nine months'
time it may be possible to speak with more precision on the
matter."  Thanks to Neues Europa 1/1/79, and "Above Top Secret"
by Timothy Good.

In the year 62, Paul wrote:  "For our fight is not against flesh
and blood, but against the rulers, against the POWERS, against
the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces
of wickedness in the heavenly places.  Ephesians 6-10.

Editor's Note: Perhaps its just a coincidence that persons with
apparent inside knowledge should use POWERS to describe these
visitors.  It is my belief that the answer to the riddle of the
UFOs is found in the statements made by various worldwide
leaders and in ancient religious writings.  They generally point
to visitation of the Earth by POWERS rather than simply
visitors.  POWERS infer a fairly large force with an ability to
operate with national might with both spiritual and political
strength.   My personal feeling is these POWERS effect mankind
to a much greater extent than most of us realize.

JAY LENO stated on his late night television show on April 26,
1999, regarding the alien visitors.  "Only buy products made on
Earth.  Look for the Earthling label before you buy."

PENNSYLVANIA PIZZA SLICE SHAPED UFO

WEST MIFFLIN -- Stan Gordon reports two UFO sightings over the
suburbs of Pittsburgh, during the past week.  On April 21, 1999,
the occupants of a car saw an object that looked like an 1/8
slice of pizza at 9:15 PM.  The crust end of the pizza was
flying forward and was covered with numerous white non-blinking
lights.  Witnesses could only see the silhouette of the craft
against the sky.  The observers live near the flight path of an
airport, and are familiar with seeing various types of aircraft.
The nearly triangular shaped object was seen at the same time as
a commercial airliner aircraft was observed moving towards
Pittsburgh.  According to one of the viewers, the triangle was
above the airplane, and stopped as the aircraft continued.
Suddenly the UFO caught up and began to pace the aircraft.  The
triangle shaped object was in a diagonal position with the plane
when a bright beam of white light was emitted towards the
commercial aircraft.  The beam at first was narrow, but expanded
until it completely illuminated the aircraft.  Then the beam of
light vanished.

SOUTH PARK - Several nights later on April 25, 1999, a witness
who is a professional and works in a scientific field saw a UFO.
He had recently started a photography course and was out on a
photographic class project, shooting some landscape shots when
the sighting occurred.  He observed a V formation of six or
seven lights moving east above the moon.  The lights were an
orangish-pinkish-white color, very luminous and non-blinking.
They were slow moving lights and sighting was observed from 7:25
to 7:35 P.M. The witness took several photographs of the light
formation, and is awaiting development of the film.  Thanks to
Stan Gordon PA UFO Hotline 724-838-7768 Website:
www.westol.com/~paufo.  Editor's Note: The triangular pizza
shape UFO was often reported over the Hudson Valley in the
1980s.

FLORIDA

The witness was "deadheading" on a flight from Atlanta to
Orlando without passengers.  She and the other "sky goddesses"
were hanging out in the back when the Captain called them all
forward.  The Captain wanted them to see what he and the copilot
were looking at.  She describes it as a big cigar shaped craft,
just off the wing, approximately the length of the plane or
slightly bigger.  It stayed there for 20 minutes or so.  It was
the most interesting and terrifying thing she had ever seen.
The Captain called it in (probably not a smart move) and had a
conversation with the tower.  This, I guess, had to be done
because of regulations, etc.  Eventually the craft flew off
without a discernible exhaust.  On landing, they were met by
"official" guys in black suits and taken to a room and ordered
NEVER to discuss what they had seen.  She took this as a
physical threat. Thanks to CAUS and Zog (zoggy@earthlink.net)

WASHINGTON:

KENNEWICK - The night skies across Eastern Washington were lit
up April 21, 1999, by a giant fireball.  The flaming orange
object was seen from Prosser to the Spokane area and was likely
part of the Lyrid meteor shower that climaxed Wednesday, said
Peter Davenport, director of the National UFO Reporting Center
in Seattle.  Even the Missoula emergency dispatch line was
flooded with calls, Davenport said.  Many eyewitnesses said it
was bigger than they imagined possible.  Based on two reports
out of Spokane, Davenport said the meteor appeared "larger than
the disk of a full moon" and had "some kind of peculiar green
tail behind it."  Thanks to Peter Davenport.  Editors Note:
There have been a series of strange reports regarding meteor
showers and Fastwalkers that seem to penetrate our atmosphere.
You should be aware that meteorites are more precious than gold.
If you can find one it can be sold for thousands of dollars.  If
you get a real UFO we're offering a million.

NEVADA

LAS VEGAS -- On March 21, 1999, at 7:15 PM, a policeman reports,
"I observed five oblong shaped objects, reddish orange in color,
flying in a loose formation, side by side."  These objects were
traveling from south to north over the western side of the City
of Las Vegas, where I reside.  As these objects flew north, I
called my wife, who came outside and also observed the objects.
At this time, the objects broke formation and began flying
amongst themselves at incredible speeds.  They continued doing
this for a short time and then regained an online formation and
continued north.  After they had passed over our home, they
suddenly again broke formation and two of the objects veered off
in a northwest direction and three began flying in a northeast
direction.  They were still visible to us when they again veered
back into an online formation and then disappeared out of view,
still in a northerly direction.  The whole episode lasted about
5 to 10 seconds.  The altitude was estimated to be about 40,000
plus feet.  There was no sound detected.  I am a recently
retired Police Sergeant, from California, and have moved to the
Las Vegas area.  I spent 30 years with my Department and really
never believed in UFO's.  After seeing these objects and the way
they were able to maneuver, I know we have nothing capable of
such speeds.

An E-mail from Anchorage, Alaska states, "In the early to mid
70's I lived in Las Vegas, NV.  I was trick-or-treating with my
son on Halloween night 1974, when we not only saw a UFO, but
were engulfed in it's light."  Everyone else in the neighborhood
was also hit by the light.  I know some time was lost, but don't
know how much.  When we recovered, our trick-or-treating was
over.  Neither of us remember anything after the light engulfed
us until it was over.  But we do remember that we acknowledged
to each other what was happening.  I remember checking in the
paper the next day and there was a paragraph or two many pages
into the paper saying there had been UFO reports, but it was
explained as something promotional.  We saw the UFO so close (it
was right at the tree tops -- which are not very tall in Las
Vegas) and there was no mistaking what it was.  I have always
believed in UFO's and had no fear of this experience afterwards.
My son, however, who was in 3rd or 4th grade at the time and is
now 32 years old and still has nightmares about it.  Thanks to
Alaska.

DENMARK

Pilots in four commercial airliners saw a red object moving
rapidly over Danish aerospace on February 3, 1999.  According to
the Daily Mail in England, the pilots saw a fast moving object
that suddenly stopped before departing at 5:30 PM.  It was also
seen on radar.  Clas Svahn of UFO-Sweden is investigating the
case.  He has contacted the Scandinavian Airlines System (SAS),
two of the aircraft were from SAS,   Debonair Airlines whose
pilot filed the report, Danish Civil Aviation Authority and
flight security department - Swedish military radar experts -
Swedish astronomer who is an expert on Bolides and meteors.  The
Civil Aviation Authority faxed to Clas Svahn the following
information: "Unidentified bright light below BAe146 at FL280
[28.000 feet, 8.400 meters].  Area below aircraft was
illuminated for 10 seconds by incandescent light which was not
considered to be an aircraft landing light.  Three other
aircraft reported seeing object moving at high speed or static.
ATC at Kastrup, Copenhagen was informed, but they reported no
other aircraft in the vicinity.  Five minutes later a radar
return was present at 75 miles on the aircraft's weather radar.
The atmosphere was reported as stable and no other aircraft were
in vicinity."  It is clear that the report has been exaggerated
in English and Swedish media.  The object was not, as stated in
Daily Mirror as large as a battleship.  It was no object at all,
but a light shining on the sea below the aircraft.  Professor
Bertil Lindblad, an authority on Bolides, confirms that they do
leave behind a trail of ionized gas that reflects on radar.  The
ten-second observation tends to confirm that the object was most
likely a bolide, but research continues. Thanks to Clas Svahn of
UFO Sweden

EASTERN AUSTRALIA

GRAFTON -- Barry Taylor reports that on: "March 24, 1999, at
7:30 PM, an orange UFO approached heading towards northwest.
This type of orange UFO was the same that I, and many other
residents had witnessed between June and October last year."
First seen at around 2,000 feet, the object quickly climbed to
pass overhead and through the 3,500 feet cloud base and out of
sight.  On March 30th, at 6:20 PM another orange UFO's flew
directly over Grafton towards the south dropping 'sparks' from
its underside before fading out.  Two witnesses saw a small
black, square shaped object continue moving on the same flight
path and altitude as when illuminated.  This article and image
was published on the front page of the "Daily Examiner"
Newspaper on April Fools' Day.  My phone began ringing at 7:.30
AM concerning the UFOs.  There were 13 calls reporting Orange
UFO's over town.  Around 9:15 PM, I received an anonymous call
claiming that there were people setting off illuminated garbage
bags.  I drove to an area that gives an unobstructed view over
Grafton.  I saw two persons launch a bright orange fiery
illuminated device that quickly rose into the air.  They then
jumped into a car and sped off.  I video taped this orange
sphere that was 3 feet in diameter rose to about 60 feet.
Viewed on infrared night vision, I could see heat rising around
the sides and over the top of the object.  Unlike the real UFO's
where the corona on I. R.  is even all the way around with
'spikes' top and bottom. The object drifted about 500 feet down
wind than began to fall with 'falling leaf' motion.  I must
admit, it was very impressive.  It had a special explosive burnt
chemical smell.  The launch of this object was irresponsible and
could have started a fire.  Later, I saw another orange UFO
heading in my direction.  I went outside and stood in the front
yard of the house and filmed this orange object.  It was not one
of the man made hoaxes, it was a real UFO.  It hovered for 1.5
minutes at 1,500 feet.  In 1996, persons from US operations at
Pine Gap Australia, were caught while launching man made
inflatable fiery devices at the time of orange UFO reports
around Alice Springs.  So are the same forces at work in Grafton
today?  Thanks to Barry Taylor.  stingray@nor.com.au Editor's
Note: Why was someone trying to cover UFO operations with fake
devices?

AUSTRALIA: Two professional scientists and their kids wrote on
April 24, 1999.  Last night my family and I watched two comet
like objects in the western sky just after sunset, close to the
horizon.  Both followed a normal rotation of the Earth in their
paths through the sky near the ecliptic, and remained of
constant size and shape on viewing by telescope or binoculars
for an hour.  Hence these strange objects must be large and far
away.  The first was bright and fiery like a comet, with a
compact head and long two-pronged tail; while the second was
dark and elongated as for a doubly sharpened pencil.  The second
followed the first by 15 minutes through the sky on roughly the
same path.  Both could be seen by the naked eye, but only from a
high viewing position.  We were prepared to photograph these
objects tonight, but the horizon was cloudy.  Two weeks ago, a
local observer noted a similar dark pencil-shaped object close
to the horizon, just after sunrise.  Whether natural or
artificial, the objects must be quite large say 1-10 km.  Thanks
to:     collie2@tpg.com.au (Rocket the border collie)

ASTRONOMERS AND SCIENTISTS HAVE SEEN UFOs

Brian Zeiler reports more astronomers than generally realized
have seen UFOs. The list is compiled in a 1964 compilation of
data from NICAP, a civilian UFO group with mostly Ph.D.s on the
board of directors.  Very scientific, pragmatic, academic group.
On July 10, 1947, a top astronomer saw an elliptical object
which hovered, wobbled, ascended suddenly.  August of 1949,
Clyde W. Tombaugh, astronomer saw a circular pattern of
rectangular lights, keeping fixed interval.  Summer 1948, Carl
Mitchell, physicist saw three luminescent greenish discs
one-second apart, pass across sky from N to S.  On March 20,
1950, Seymour L. Hess, meteorology and astronomy saw a disc or
sphere in apparent "powered" flight.  On August 3, 1951, Walter
Webb, an astronomer saw a bright glowing light moving in
undulating path.  In 1952, W. Gordon Graham, astronomer saw an
UFO "like a smoke ring, elliptical in shape, and having two
bright pinpoints of light along its main axis move overhead from
west to east.  On August 5, 1952, James Bartlett, astronomer saw
during the daylight observation of Venus a flight of two disks
with a diameter about 30 minutes of arc; passed overhead and
turned east.  Then two more disks with dome-like protrusions in
center.  On June 11, 1954, H. Percy Wilkins, an astronomer saw
two silvery objects "like polished metal plates" moving against
the wind.  A third grayish oval arced across sky.  On November
25, 1954, Marcos Guerci, meteorologist saw two luminous objects
observed from airport; one apparently semicircular, other
circular.  12/7/54  R. H. Kleyweg, meteorologist.  Hemispherical
disk tracked through theodolite. 11/1/55  Frank Halstead,
astronomer.  A cigar-shaped object followed by domed disk.
6/18/57  Henry Carlock, physicist.  Observing sky with
telescope; twice glimpsed UFO with halo around it and "what
appeared to be three portholes."  11/10/57  Jacques Chapuis,
astronomer at Toulouse Observatory saw a maneuvering yellow
star-like object for 5 minutes.  The UFO finally ascended
straight up out of sight.  5/22/60, Observatory Staff Majorca .
Triangular UFO about 1/4 apparent size of moon sighted at 9:33
AM, spinning on its axis while on steady course.  3/16/61  R. J.
Villela, a meteorologist in Antarctica saw a fireball-like
object in low-level flight.  5/20/62  C. A. Maney, a physicist
with six others saw a maneuvering light, turn sharply, and make
sudden changes in speed.  These reports cover only though 1964,
so this should annihilate the myth that astronomers and
scientists don't see UFOs. Thanks to- Brian Zeiler and NICAP.

TOWER LIKE ANOMALY NEAR THE SUN

On June 24, 1998, the Millennium Group Research Team posted the
very first shot of what is now popularly known as "The ORCA."  A
strange tower like object that appears near Sunspot 8458.  In
October of 1998, the team began seeing a strange object in the
lower left hand corner of the SOHO C2 images.  At first it was
thought to be an imaging anomaly, perhaps a wrinkle in a filter.
We ignored it, but noticed it would show up intermittently for a
few days and then it would be gone for a few days.  The strange
object that apparently is of tremendous size is called the Tower
and only the tip of the Tower appears to be showing.  It appears
to be long and cylindrical as if it were a "tube" that had been
sliced off at an angle.  There is another shorter tower next to
it.  An image from the satellite YOHKOH also appears to show the
geometric anomaly with extensions out of the center at a right
angle and  rays of light emanating from behind the object.  It's
as if sun light were radiating through or around a cloud,
leading observers to conclude that this object is NOT on the
surface, but at some distance from the sun.  No other "sunspots"
on the surface of the sun appear geometric like the Tower.  The
anomalies can be seen from two DIFFERENT satellites making it
more likely that these are not image processing or digital
aberrations.  The strange mechanical looking structure does NOT
appear to be a digital aberration because it is several pixels
wide and there is evidence of  tonal color gradation near the
edges.  This implies that someone did not put it there without
considerable effort.  See photos at:
http://www.millenngroup.com/repository/solar/anomaly.html

NOSTRADAMOUS PREDICTS WORLD WAR III

CAPE TOWN -- Nostradamus by Jeremy Lovell (Reuters) - World War
Three will start in July in the Balkans, last seven months and
end in victory for the U.S.-led North Atlantic Treaty
Organization, according to a new analysis of 16th century French
seer Nostradamus.  `He is clear it will start before the end of
the century during the period of Cancer which is between June 22
and July 23, and in a triangle bordered by Greece, Italy and
Turkey, which is the Balkans.'' University of Stellenbosch
Professor of Political Science Willie Breytenbach told Reuters,
I have to emphasize I am a skeptic.  I am an academic who was
bored on a Sunday.  But what I found was so chilling that I put
pen to paper,'' he added.  NATO allies have been bombing targets
in Serbia in a so-far abortive effort to force Serbian President
Slobodan Milosevic to stop expelling the ethnic Albanian
majority from Kosovo.  The air campaign has triggered angry
responses from Russia, caused a biblical exodus of refugees from
Kosovo and forced the allies to contemplate sending in ground
forces.  Breytenbach said he found references to the conflict in
18 of the 950 quatrains written by Michel de Notre Dame in 1555.
In one quatrain he mentions the Slav people and war in the
mountains which, taken with what we know and the talk of land
forces, all gelled,'' he added.  One of the quatrains also
mentions a tyrant whose name begins with `M,' which could refer
to Milosevic.  Another notes that the Serbs will change their
prince, which Breytenbach took to be a reference to the possible
overthrow of the Serb leader.  In another verse there is a
reference to three years and seven months of peace before the
war.  The Dayton peace accord to which Milosevic was a
signatory, finally ended the conflict in Bosnia on November 21,
1995.  Adding three years and seven months to that brings us to
the end of June 1999,'' Breytenbach said.  Nostradamus made
several references to the involvement of Greece, Turkey and
Italy.  Nostradamus, is quite clear the war will last seven
months and the victor will have been born in America."  Editor's
Note: I predict WW III war will be averted and Milosevic will be
ousted.

NASA WILL STUDY WORMHOLES AND SPACE TUNNELS

NASA --A report from Jack Grimston indicates that NASA is
considering funding research into wormholes, anomalies in space
that could provide a short cut to space travel and allow
astronauts to crisscross the universe in an instant.  NASA is
impressed with new research that suggests that wormholes,
tunnels that are thought to link points in space separated by
billions of kilometers, could be used for space travel.  A NASA
spokesman said although the research could take decades, the
potential rewards were too great to ignore: "This could
revolutionize space travel and ultimately allow interstellar
voyages."  The existence of wormholes was first proposed by
Albert Einstein 64 years ago, but physicists have always argued
that they would generate such powerful gravitational fields that
nobody could enter them.  New research suggests, however, that
such forces could be neutralized using negative mass -- space
from which all the energy has been sucked out.  Negative mass
was once considered a purely theoretical concept, but its
existence has been demonstrated by scientists at a government
research facility in Los Alomos. NM.  A second group of
researchers, led by Matt Visser, at Washington University in St
Louis has calculated that negative mass could be used to
manipulate small wormholes, making them large enough for a
spaceship to pass through.  Wormholes are best imagined by
drawing two spots on a piece of paper and bending the paper so
that the two dots touch.  They are together, but remain the same
distance apart on the paper.  Professor Visser believes that
negative mass could be used to expand and stabilize smaller
wormholes.  If the research succeeds, it would transform
humankind's view of its place in the universe.  Scientists
believe that, while the universe could be riddled with millions
of tiny wormholes.  But at the moment we are effectively
stranded on Earth - a spacecraft could take thousands of years
to reach the nearest constellations.  The amount of negative
mass demonstrated by scientists at the Los Alamos laboratory is
so small that only the most sensitive instruments can detect it.
Australian Sunday Times 4/20/99

EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE UFO ENCOUNTER

Sam Sherman's audio documentary tape called THE EDWARDS AIR
FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER on the night of October 7, 1965, uses the
actual voice recordings provided by the Air Force.  During this
event 12 high tech luminous UFOs invade secure air space and
came down low over the runways at Edwards AFB, where tower
operator Chuck Sorrels spotted them and notified the Air Defense
Command.  I have met and spoken to Sorrels who is heard on the
original tapes and in a new segment in which he verifies the
event as it is heard on the archival recordings.  The UFOs are
described and a decision is made to launch F-106 interceptors.
You are there in an important part of UFO history. Hear it for
yourself, its probably the best tape ever made and its record of
a real event. The cost of the tape is $14.95 each plus $2.00 for
shipping -- total $16.95 -- the buyer can send either a personal
check or money order to: INDEPENDENT INTERNATIONAL, Box 565,
Dept.  GF, Old Bridge, New Jersey 08857.  This a great tape to
listen to with your friends.  Even most military men enjoy the
tape and feel it is authentic.

MUFON JOURNAL For more detailed investigative reports subscribe
by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or E-mail
Mufon@aol.com.  Filer's Files Copyright 1999 by George A. Filer,
all rights reserved.  Readers may post items from the Files on
their Websites provided that they credit the newsletter and its
editor by name and list the date of issue that the item
appeared.  Send your letters to me at Majorstar@aol.com.  If you
wish to keep your name confidential please so state.





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 30

               Re: Villa Santina 1947 case [2] (was: Re: First

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:58:23 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:03:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Villa Santina 1947 case [2] (was: Re: First

A second detail:

>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: First Grey report
>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:31:27 +0100

>When was the first grey report?

>The earliest with any clear pattern in Europe was that in August
>l947 at Villa Santina, Italy - although not reported until the
>l950's. Like most early European cases the witness was
>'sidelined' with a light beam and not abducted or contacted.

>Although there are a few earlier cases with grey features none
>earlier that I have seen are as close a match. The witness was a
>science fiction writer and a geologist.

Not a geologist at all: never heard or read of that! What's your
source?

Always about the entities as NON-grey types: they had long,
straigth noses, as opposed to the usually noseless greys'
descriptions abundant in the last decade or so.

Just for the record

Best regards



Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 30

                        The New ELFIS Is Up - Issue 9

From: Byron M. Beyer <baggins1@io.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:58:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:07:47 -0400
Subject: The New ELFIS Is Up - Issue 9


This is being posted on behalf of Fearless Leader SMiles as he
enjoys Foggy London town this week!


Hello all...

Below is the copy that went out this morning to the official
ELFIS e-list, announcing that ELFIS Issue Nine is now online!
Thanks to all of you who have signed on to participate in
Researcher Dialogue. Check the new department out when you
cruise the New ELFIS, and bask in the glow...those of you who
haven't gotten your responses to us, get them to us when you
can, and we'll add them as we get them...your space is reserved!
The site has been tested as best we could before we uploaded; if
you find any glitches, please e-mail us and we'll fix it!

Again, many thanks to all of you!

Onward to a new era!

Sincerely,

Byron M. Beyer
Senior Editor
E.L.F. Infested Spaces
4/30/99

------------------------------------------
The NEW ELFIS LIVES!!

This is the beginning of the Third Volume of E.L.F. Infested
Spaces-Journal of Possible Paradigms.  From its inception in
1994, I foresaw a time when ELFIS would make its transition to
this world wide web of synchronistic data flow.  It took four
years and many near-death experiences for ELFIS to finally get
here.  Once here, the struggle for timely publication was
increased, but the rewards have been, shall we say, startling.

With this third volume (about mid-way through this Ninth Issue)
we will again return to our original subscription-driven format.
Details soon.  Many of our original off-line subscribers have
already received
their Founder Packages, and the response has been enthusiastic!

When you surf the new ELFIS, be sure to use the URL
<www.elfis.net/>, since this will take you directly to our new
Entry Portal.  Once you're there, you can check out our new
interface, and cruise through all the departments.  Check out
the WELCOME page <www.elfisnnet/welcome.htm> and the Navigation
<www.elfis.net/nav.htm> pages first, since there are handy hints
on how to best get around our new interface.  Also,visit Rants
And Reviews <www.elfis.net/RnR/index.htm> with new features by
W. Ritche Benedict, HArv Howard and Steve Mizrach.  And,
finally, don't forget to visit our brand new department,
Researcher Dialogue <www.elfis.net/RD/index.htm> (more about
that in a minute!), and, of course, pay a visit to the intrepid
Mr. Baggins at his new digs, the refurbished Mr. Baggins' Corner
<www.elfis.net/BagEnd/index.htm>.

By far the biggest news this installment is the appointment of
the new ELFIS Senior Editor, Byron M. Beyer. The new look of
ELFIS has Byron written all over it.  I really dig the new look,
and since he and I have worked together on this, I can honestly
tell you that it's gonna look even better real soon.  All the
bells and whistles.

And for those of you who don't give a rat's ass about that fancy
bell-and-whistle kinda stuff,(all you "meat and potatoes"
folks), ELFIS has a brand new Department that's sure to please:
Researcher Dialogue. Every issue we'll "pick the brains" of the
most original thinkers in the field for their opinion on a
pertinent topic.  Be sure to check out the great responses to
our Researcher Dialogue department's first topic, concerning
UFOs and media.  We've got bits and bytes from Jim Keith,
Eugenia Macer-Story, Peter Stenshoel of the Excluded Middle
magazine, and many, many more.

Have fun cruising the New ELFIS!

Tune in next week when Our Hero zaps an email notice from the
Otherworld Reality consciousness conference in London.

Gotta catch that plane! See ya in the DreamTime...

SMiles






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 30

                          Re: First 'Grey' Report?

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 99 11:31:21 PDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:10:03 -0400
Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?


>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?
>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:39:28 +0100

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?
>>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 99 17:45:50 PDT

>>>From: Jesus Millan Arias <jesusmillan@mx3.redestb.es>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: First 'Grey' Report?
>>>Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:19:55 +0200


Hi, Jenny,

I'm glad that you're finally connected to the Internet and able
to participate in list discussions.  Your vast knowledge should
help to elevate the discourse, and I look forward to reading
your contributions.

>Certainly in my study of British cases there are no obvious
>greys at all until well into the l980's. Most - even
>hypnotically pursued - CE 4 s until about l985 had more human
>like or Nordic beings. The classic Telford encounter (pursued in
>l982/l983 with hypnosis on all three witnesses) produced
>different entity types with each witness and one of these was
>somewhat grey like.  It is all the more apparent when you see
>how - after the massive import of greys into British culture
>circa l987 (via the books of Strieber and Hopkins) the previous
>pattern of British aliens virtually disappeared overnight and
>now you are hard pressed NOT to find greys. There has to be
>significance in this. I talked it over with Budd Hopkins and he
>says that the greys were always in Brirtish cases but witnesses
>never knew it because the more friendly alien types acted as
>cover to protect the subconscious, Well, maybe. But equally, it
>has to be possible that the form the entity takes in a story is
>culturally modified. Thats my bet.

Maybe, maybe not.  Nothing about any of this is simple.  If it
were, we'd have found the answers long ago, we'd all agree on
them, and we could all go home.  In fact, one extraordinarily
important fact -- unremarked on, so far as I know, by everybody
but me -- links pre- abduction CE3s with cases from the
abduction era, and that is the large number of reports of human
or humanlike beings, including the blond-haired Nordics.  In
that sense, I think, it's meaningless to argue that the presence
of such entities in non-America abduction reports tells us much.
Besides their ubiquitous presence in early CE3s, these beings
were appearing in pre-Hopkins-era abduction cases, including one
I investigated in 1978 from Sedalia, Missouri (it occurred,
incidentally, during the nationwide early-August 1965 UFO wave,
centered in the Midwest).

>They do say that once is coincidence and twice a conspiracy.
>Here it is safer to say that there is more going on that just an
>invasion by greys and that something is occurring at the level
>of human consciousness on a cultural level.

Maybe, maybe not.  Where the abduction phenomenon is concerned,
our ignorance vastly outweighs our knowledge, and it would
behoove us all to be as cautious as possible in our judgments.
In my own reading of the evidence, I would agree with the first
half of your sentence and seriously question the second.

Cordially,

Jerry Clark







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 >
   Apr > Apr 30

                        Re: Removing Metal Implants?

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:05:52 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:19:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Removing Metal Implants?


>From: Ben Field <ben@abcfield.force9.co.uk>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Removing Metal Implants?
>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:35:33 +0100

>To all,

>I received the email below and was wondering if anyone new of
>someone, a doctor, that would remove this type of thing, I guess
>he would be able to ask his doctor if he would remove it, and
>ask for the peice of metal back afterwards, would anyone now of
>someone that may be able to analyse this material also.


Hi Ben.

From my experience, it has not been difficult to find a surgeon
that would be willing to remove any foreign objects unless there
was some medical risk that would not justify the surgery.
Foreign objects that can be felt and are just under the skin can
even be removed at a general practioner's office.

If it is suspected that the foreign object may be something very
unusual (eg. an alien implant), I would suggest that the doctor
place it a sealed container and arrange to have it given
directly to someone who has contacts in the forensic sciences,
so that it can be examined and tested properly.

With a single x-ray, even doctors will not be able to tell you
the location of the foreign object within the body.  It is not
uncommon to have x-rays show foreign objects that were not even
in the patient's body.  For example, one patient's x-ray showed
what looked like a large nail in his brain when he was being
examined for possible head injuries.  The nail turned out to be
in the board that the patient's head was resting on.

If I can be of further help, please contact me directly.

Nick Balaskas