The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep UFO UpDates Mailing List Sep 1999 Sep 1: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - James Bond JohnsonJBONJO@aol.com [117] ELFIS ISSUE 9 UpDated - Stephen Lewis [208] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - Ben Field [68] Sighting Reports Via UFO Scotland - 08-31-99 - Dave Ledger [220] MSN's 'UFO Community' Becomes 'DESTINATION: SPACE' - Diana Botsford [69] [M-TRAC - MSAA] Mercury, Gravity, and the TR3-B - Sue Kovios [119] Projects Sign & Bluebook: Research Update - Wendy Connors [49] Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... - Jim Mortellaro [74] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - David Rudiak [95] Re: Daylight Flying Triangle Footage - Sue and John Strickland [19] Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... - Amy Hebert [41] Re: Research Proposal - Hypnotic Suggestibility - Jerome Clark [31] Robert A.M. Stephens - Railroad Redux - JBSaxton@aol.com [83] UFOINFO Is Moving - John Hayes [16] Sep 2: [lunascan] Heads Up - Incoming - Tim Edwards [37] Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... - Brian Straight [16] Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... - Dennis Stacy [13] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - David Rudiak [213] Orbs, Dupes and Denial at American Computer - Ed Gehrman [181] 'Strange Days... Indeed' - New Slot, More Time - Errol Bruce-Knapp [10] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - John Velez [27] Experience Gap [was Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And - Dennis Stacy [64] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - Gildas Bourdais [82] Re: Projects Sign & Bluebook: Research Update - Georgina Bruni [11] Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... - John Rimmer [12] What's New at Magonia 1.9.99 - Mark Pilkington [12] Robert AM Stephens & Railroads - Jeff Saxton [97] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 19 - Joseph Trainor [482] Re: Project Pelican - Jim Mortellaro [21] Re: Project Pelican - GT McCoy [22] Re: Daylight Flying Triangle Footage - Amy Hebert [21] Filer's Files #35 - George A. Filer [365] [lunascan] WA MUFON Director Speaks On Sept. 1 - Tim Edwards [89] Re: Experience Gap [was Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds - Jim Mortellaro [45] Sep 3: Re: Project Pelican - Allen Loper [34] Re: Experience Gap - Sue Strickland [23] Sep 4: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - David Rudiak [185] Re: Experience Gap - Sean Jones [22] Re: Project Pelican - Dave Bowden [31] Alfred's Odd Ode #315 - Alfred Lehmberg [104] John Ford? - Martin Jeffrey [18] 'Strange Days... Indeed' Michael J. Woods & Hernan - Errol Bruce-Knapp [47] Sep 5: Re: Experience Gap - Jim Mortellaro [53] Re: Experience Gap - Jim Mortellaro [43] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - Perry Mick [16] Re: John Ford? - Alfred Lehmberg [54] Serious Ufologists In Turkey? - Edoardo Russo [10] Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #315 - John Velez [37] Re: John Ford? - Sandy Gudaitis [22] CPR-Canada News: Large Crop Formation in - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada [79] Timothy Good & Gordon Creighton? - Larry Robson [7] Sep 6: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - Marty Murray [29] Re: Serious Ufologists In Turkey? - John Hayes [39] Re: Serious Ufologists In Turkey? - Erol Erkmen [49] Re: Experience Gap - Amy Hebert [25] Re: Project A.L.P - Erol Erkmen [88] Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... - Amy Hebert [87] Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 - Georgina Bruni [163] Sep 7: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds and Bull.... - Jim Mortellaro [116] UFO Desk - Paul Williams [17] Conventional Explanation? - Lesley Cluff [71] Read This Post - It Is Truth Reviled - Jim Mortellaro [59] Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' - Jerry Black [176] Re: Roger Evans' Open Letter To Jerry Black - Jerry Black [130] Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration'? - Nancy Davidson [7] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - Dennis Stacy [37] The 36th Annual National UFO Conference - Stig Agermose [55] Re: [lunascan] Heads Up - Incoming - John Velez [39] New Images of Daylight ORBs & Disks - Dan Geib [9] Re: Truth Reviled - An open Letter by the Reviled - Jim Mortellaro [27] Re: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration'? - Jim Mortellaro [36] Re: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' - Jerome Clark [294] Re: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration'? - Terry Blanton [20] Re: [lunascan] Heads Up - Incoming - Royce J. Myers III [30] Re: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration' - Brian Cuthbertson [41] Re: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' - Sean Jones [32] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - Gildas Bourdais [121] Re: Ingo Swann's book 'Penetration'? - Jean-Luc Rivera [24] UFO Report - 9/6/99: DePere, Wisconsin - Kenny Young [39] Sep 8: Looking For Greek Ufologists Or Sites - Erol Erkmen [6] Re: Read This Post - It Is Truth Reviled - Kevin Randle [26] CPR-Canada News: Update on Neilburg, Saskatchewan - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada [70] CPR-Canada News: Art Update on Canadian Crop - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada [65] Sighting Report 9-5-99 - Brighton, IA - John E.L. Tenney [58] Tampa UFO - Another "Russian Booster" Cover Story? - Ignatius Graffeo [14] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - Neil Morris [50] Re: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' - Jenny Randles [120] Re: Tampa UFO - Another "Russian Booster" Cover - GT McCoy [34] UFO Report - Gallatin, Tennessee: 9/7/99 - Kenny Young [69] Tracking UFOs by Satellite - Maxwell Burns [462] Russian Booster - What The Heck...? - Kenny Young [27] Sep 9: Re: UFO Report - Gallatin, Tennessee: 9/7/99 - GT McCoy [85] CPR-Canada News: New Crop Circles in Prince Edward - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada [59] [uforc] UFO Resource Center Buzzed By UFO - Christopher Montgomery [135] Re: Tampa Bay Mystery Lights 'Rocket's Red Glare' - Ignatius Graffeo [21] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 20 - by way of John Hayes [416] Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite - Amy Hebert [49] UDN News - 09-09-99 - Renzo Cabassi [64] Sep 10: Filer's Files #36 -- 1999 - George A. Filer [378] Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite - Henny van der Pluijm [25] CPR-Canada News: More Saskatchewan Crop Circles - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada [75] Re: Introduction To Seismic Lights - Moderator, UFO UpDates [18] Re: Introduction To Seismic Lights - Erol Erkmen [100] 'ETs'? & Ground Traces In Montreal, Quebec - Michel M. Deschamps [86] Sep 11: French COMETA Report & UK UFO Magazine - Gildas Bourdais [36] SystemView by Elanix Extends SETI - Stig Agermose [94] Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite - Bob Young [20] Re: Tampa Bay Mystery Lights 'Rocket's Red Glare' - Bob Young [26] Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite - Bob Young [33] Alfred's Odd Ode #316 - Lehmberg [93] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - Kevin Randle [182] Sep 12: 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Richard Hall - UFO UpDates - Toronto [64] Sep 11: Hmm - Sean Jones [5] Sep 12: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Jerry Black [156] Sep 13: College Offers Internet UFO Class - Stig Agermose [36] Recent Sightings In Northern Ontario - Michel M. Deschamps [52] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - James Bond Johnson [73] Re: Tampa Bay Mystery Lights 'Rocket's Red Glare' - Bill Stockstill [16] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - Kevin Randle [47] TUVPO 'Black' List - Erol Erkmen [25] Sep 14: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - bruce maccabee [225] Re: TUVPO 'Black' List - Lesley Cluff [51] UK Government Documents Online - Stig Agermose [16] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - James Bond Johnson [56] Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite - Amy Hebert [29] Re: UK Government Documents Online - Brian Straight [19] Sep 15: Re: TUVPO 'Black' List-Hoaxed - Bob Kathman [56] Five Really Stupid Ideas - Jim Mortellaro [18] Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' - Gavin McLeod [9] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - Kevin Randle [14] Re: TUVPO 'Black' List - Todd Lemire [36] We Met! - Cathy Johnson [46] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - Robert Gates [29] C.E.: 'Strange Lights' in Turkey - Steven W. Kaeser" [56] Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [113] Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' - Amy Hebert [12] Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas - Amy Hebert [33] Re: Panspermia - Brian Straight [29] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - James Bond Johnson [68] Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' - James Bouck [25] Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' - Jim Mortellaro [41] Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas - Sean Jones [38] Sep 16: The Challenge - John Velez [106] Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' - Jim Mortellaro [42] Re: We Met! - Joni Ferris [35] Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' - Michel M. Deschamps [13] Australian UFO Sighting Reports - 16.09.1999 - Diane Harrison [143] CPR-Canada News: New Crop Formation - Midale, - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada [67] Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 - Amy Hebert [32] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 21 - Joseph Trainor [351] Re: The Challenge - Sean Jones [14] Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' - Jenny Randles [44] Sep 17: Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas - Jim Mortellaro [81] Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' - Nick Balaskas [43] Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs - Alfred Lehmberg [78] Re: The Challenge - Nick Balaskas [48] Virtual Art Gallery - Alfred Lehmberg [24] Re: Panspermia - Nick Balaskas [75] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - Robert Gates [84] Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs - Bruce Maccabee [39] Re: The Challenge - Bill Weber [36] Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 - Tim Matthews [49] Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [57] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 21 - Joseph Trainor [351] Sep 18: Re: Panspermia - Amy Hebert [28] Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas - Michael Christol [12] Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell - Kevin Randle [67] Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' - Gavin A. J. McLeod [20] Re: The Challenge - Jim Deardorff [73] Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' - Henny van der Pluijm [11] Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs - Royce J. Myers III [27] Re: The Challenge - John Velez [124] Re: The Challenge - John Velez [53] Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas - Sue Strickland [46] Re: [OvnisUfos] More Photos Mexican UFOsighting - Guillermo Alarcon [34] Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' - Don Allen [30] Stealth Blimp - Marty Murray [27] Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 - Michel M. Deschamps [40] Re: [OvnisUfos] More Photos Mexican UFO Sighting - Larry Hatch [39] Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs - Maxwell Burns [26] Alfred's Odd Ode #317 - Alfred Lehmberg [106] Re: The Challenge - Kevin Randle [149] Sep 19: Re: The Challenge - Bill Weber [55] Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' - Joaquim Fernandes [25] Re: The Challenge - Brian Cuthbertson [93] Re: Apology to H.F. - Jsmortell@aol.com [8] Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs - Scott Ribordy [26] [SO] Filer's Files #37 -- 1999 - George A. Filer [378] Re: C.E.: 'Strange Lights' in Turkey - Todd Lemire [84] CPR-Canada News: Another Midale, Saskatchewan - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada [65] Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' - Jim Mortellaro [52] Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 - Jim Mortellaro [37] Timothy Good "Timothy Cooper Behind MJ-12 - Anthony Chippendale [19] Stunning Discs Sighted Twice On Long Island - Stig Agermose [38] Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - John Velez [53] Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [57] Re: The Challenge - John Velez [53] Re: Stealth Blimp - Norio Hayakawa [90] Tim Cooper Exposed By Tim Good - Tim Matthews [55] NASA Footage At Leeds Conference - Not What It - Tim Matthews [139] Re: Stealth Blimp - Tim Matthews [25] Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 - Terry Evans [48] Re: UFO Over English Channel? - David Clarke [97] Sep 20: Re: The Challenge - Lynne Bishop [28] [bwwma] BWW Media Alert 19990919 - Bufo Calvin [242] Re: UDN News - 09-09-99 - Terry Evans [69] NASA TV Not Shut Down As Claimed - Tim Matthews [49] Re: UFO over English Channel? - Andy Roberts [23] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Terry Evans [181] Berwyn Watch 1 - Andy Roberts [110] Re: Panspermia - Nick Balaskas [63] Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas - Sean Jones [69] Re: 1937 UFO crash in Germany - Nick Balaskas [31] Re: [OvnisUfos] More Photos Mexican UFO Sighting - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [73] Re: Panspermia - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [67] Re: Stealth Blimp - Jim Mortellaro [83] Message #20,000 At The Archive - UFO UpDates - Toronto [30] Re: The Challenge - Henny van der Pluij [61] Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - Michael Christol [44] 'Roswell', An Upcoming Teenage Soap - Stig Agermose [21] CPR-Canada News: Circles Near Weyburn, Saskatchewan - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada [60] CPR-Canada News: More Circles - Acadia Valley, - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada [63] Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - Bruce Maccabee [16] Re: - Amy Hebert [24] Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - John [33] Re: The Challenge - Kevin Randle [54] Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Tim Matthews [35] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Bruce Maccabee [184] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Jim Mortellaro [35] Re: The Challenge - John Velez [60] Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs - Jenny Randles [21] Re: Timothy Good "Timothy Cooper Behind MJ-12 - Jenny Randles [21] Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' - Jenny Randles [50] Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting - John Hayes [29] 'Phenomena!' - Anthony Chippendale [10] The Mind Boggles - Sean Jones [49] Re: Stealth Blimp - Amy Hebert [24] Meandering Thoughts - Sean Jones [79] Re: 1937 UFO crash in Germany - Werner Walter [21] Sep 21: Christchurch - New Zealand UFO Report 1977/1978 - Murray Bott [22] Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Roy J Hale [18] Re: UFO over English Channel? - Roy J Hale [25] Re: The Challenge - Jim Deardorff [43] Swedish Crash In Mid-September '99? - Stig Agermose [15] Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' - Don Allen [55] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Don Allen [59] Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - John Velez [44] Re: 1937 UFO crash in Germany - John Rimmer [24] Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - John Velez [80] Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting - Larry Hatch [45] Re: Christchurch - New Zealand UFO Report 1977/1978 - Glennys Mackay [65] UFO 'Researcher' Found Guilty Of Drug-Dealing - Tim Matthews [63] Max Burns - Background - Tim Matthews [40] Ufologist Convicted And In Jail Tonight - Tim Matthews [25] Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Steven Kaeser [27] Re: UFO over English Channel? - David Clarke [50] Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Andy Roberts [16] Re: The Challenge - Kevin Randle [70] Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns - Andy Roberts [98] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Michel M. Deschamps [49] Sep 22: UFO Desk Site Fixup - Paul C. WIlliams [28] Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting - John Hayes [37] Re: The Challenge - Tim D. Brigham [107] Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting - Stan Friedman [38] Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - Michael Christol [34] Re: Ufologist Convicted And In Jail Tonight - Don Allen [23] Re: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns - Jim Mortellaro [32] Re: Max Burns - Background - Henny van der Pluijm [18] Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - Bruce Maccabee [28] Re: The Challenge - John [69] Tampa UFO Sighting Update - Ignatius Graffeo [23] The Skeptical Believer - Tim D. Brigham [497] 36th National UFO Conference - Tim D. Brigham [37] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Jerome Clark [43] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Terry Evans [178] Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Jenny Randles [65] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Terry Evans [61] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Terry Evans [71] UFOcity.com Report 9/99 - Peter Robbins [477] Re: The Challenge - Sean Jones [24] Sep 23: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Dave Bowden [37] Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting - Larry Hatch [50] Re: The Challenge - Lynne Bishop [93] 2 Australian Sighting Reports: 22.09.1999 - Diane Harrison - Keith Basterfield Network [92] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Jerome Clark [30] Re: The Skeptical Believer - Bruce Maccabee [83] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Bruce Maccabee [220] Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - Mark Cashman [76] Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - John Velez [44] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - John Rimmer [40] Alleged CIA Dir. Meeting With Greer Under Question - Stefan Duncan [213] Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting - Glennys Mackay [65] Re: UFOcity.com Report 9/99 - Stan Friedman [19] Re: Max Burns - Background - Tim Matthews [18] Re: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns - Tim Matthews [41] Sep 24: Re: The Skeptical Believer - Jerome Clark [57] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 22 - Masinaigan@aol.com [436] Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - royjhale [34] Re: RPIT - A Reminder [was... Re: The Challenge] - James Bond Johnson [31] Re: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns - Jim Mortellaro [47] Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Roy J Hale [44] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Terry Evans [70] Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - John Velez [74] Re: The Challenge - Jim Mortellaro [37] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Stan Friedman [44] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Terry Evans [99] Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting - Stan Friedman [45] Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Tim Matthews [54] Re: Alleged CIA Dir. Meeting With Greer Under - Tim Matthews [45] Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - Bruce Maccabee [105] Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting - Bruce Maccabee [64] Mars Orbiter Lost? - Exclusive Chat with Mars - Diana Botsford [18] Roy Hales New URL - Roy J Hale [9] UFO Enthusiasts Meet For Sightings At Bonnybridge - Stig Agermose [79] Filer's Files #38 -- 1999 - George A. Filer [389] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Don Allen [67] Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees - Stig Agermose [25] Resignation From 'Beyond' & 'Quest' Magazines - Philip Mantle - QUEST [17] Victor Hugo Spoke To Aliens - Stig Agermose [181] CPR-Canada News: Two More Formations Near Midale, - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada [69] Atmospheric Effects On Star Observation - Brian Straight [44] Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Jenny Randles [67] In Search Of A PhD - Jenny Randles [11] Max Burns Jailed For 30 Months - David Clarke [48] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Jerome Clark [123] Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Jenny Randles [42] UFO Desk - New Time Slot - Paul C. WIlliams [21] UFO Or Space Junk? The Truth Is Out There - Stig Agermose [159] Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees - Paul C. WIlliams [75] Sep 25: [rense_e-news] Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 9-24-99 - Rense E-News [257] 'Return to Dreamland' - Stig Agermose [12] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Roger Evans [80] 'Florida Today' To Web-Publish 'Contact' Section - Stig Agermose [42] Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees - Mac Tonnies [20] Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Roy J Hale [13] Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees - GT McCoy [41] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Bruce Maccabee [28] Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - John Velez [69] Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - Jim Mortellaro [35] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Patrick V. Reavis [41] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Jerome Clark [59] Alfred's Odd Ode #318 - Alfred Lehmberg [87] Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights - Jim Mortellaro [26] Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees - Bruno Mancusi [10] Sep 26: AREA 51 Alibi - BBB1954@aol.com [25] [SO] Jim Keith (AKA Commander X) 1949 - 1999 - Louise A. Lowry [171] Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - Alfred Lehmberg [62] Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - GT MCoy [46] Re: The Skeptical Believer - Bruce Maccabee [36] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Bruce Maccabee [129] MUFON's International Director To Retire - Stig Agermose [62] Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - Brian Cuthbertson [32] Nick Pope's New Book - Stig Agermose [59] Re: RPIT - A Reminder [was... Re: The Challenge] - Gildas Bourdais [64] 'Strange Days... Indeed' Tonight - Sam Sherman - UFO UpDates - Toronto [67] Sep 27: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Dave Bowden [76] Australian UFO Sighting OZ File.00321.25.09.99 - Robert Frola [51] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Terry Evans [139] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Terry Evans [59] Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - David Rudiak [139] Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - Bruce Maccabee [14] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Terry Evans [170] Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 - Bruce Maccabee [49] Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - Larry Hatch [44] 'Reflections...' - Terry Evans [13] UFO Enthusiasts Open National Meet - Stig Agermose [81] Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And German Disc - Sue Kovios [240] Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - Brian Straight [27] Sep 28: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Tim Matthews [82] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Jerome Clark [128] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Jerome Clark [47] Re: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And German - Tim Matthews [30] Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights - Carlos G. Roselli [51] Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - Jacqueline Cosford [31] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - bruce maccabee [83] Re: 'Reflections...' - Bruce Maccabee [31] Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - Jim Mortellaro [57] Sep 29: New Indian UFO Website - Stig Agermose [19] CPR-Canada News: New Formation Near Edmonton, - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada [66] Re: RPIT - A Reminder - Neil Morris [192] 'Smoking' Gun-Metal-Gray Triangular Craft Taped - Ignatius Graffeo [31] Re: The Challenge - Kevin Randle [67] Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - Sheree Cox [18] Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights - Jim Mortellaro [81] Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights - UFO-Finland [58] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Brian Straight [49] Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - Nick Balaskas [42] Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - Nick Balaskas [42] Processed MGS Data - Maybe The 'Face' _Is_ - Steven J. Dunn [41] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Jim Mortellaro [75] Cigarette Ad Sparks UFO Controversy - Stig Agermose [41] Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees - Todd Lemire [28] If Aliens Are Calling Collect, SETI Ready To Answer - Stig Agermose [216] Re: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And - Todd Lemire [48] Another Crop Formation Near Midale, Saskatchewan - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada [69] Research Update - ATIC History - Wendy Connors [64] Strieber Rallies UFO Faithful, Rails Against - Stig Agermose [172] WB's 'Roswell' Mixes Aliens, Teen Angst - Stig Agermose [91] Get Real - Amy Hebert [28] Re: RPIT - A Reminder - UFO UpDates - Toronto [72] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Kenny Young [78] Re: Berwyn Watch 1 - Dave Bowden [38] Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights - Jim Mortellaro [90] Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? - Jim Mortellaro [67] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Terry Evans [125] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Terry Evans [35] Re: Processed MGS Data - Maybe The 'Face' _Is_ - Steven Kaeser [52] Sep 30: Re: Processed MGS Data - Maybe The 'Face' _Is_ - Mac Tonnies [58] [M-TRAC - MSAA] Mars Mission Successes and Failures - Sue Kovios [325] Re: CPR-Canada News: Updated Acadia Valley & - Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada [75] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Jerome Clark [94] Re: Get Real - Terry Evans [35] Re: Strieber Rallies UFO Faithful, Rails Against - Stephen MILES Lewis [66] Strieber Won A Caldecott? Come Again? - Wendy Christensen [27] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Jerome Clark [175] Re: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> - Stig Agermose [43] Re: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And - Tim Matthews [53] Re: Get Real - Jim Mortellaro [67] Re: Get Real - Brian Straight [39] Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos - Bruce Maccabee [24]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: James Bond JohnsonJBONJO@aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:21:54 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:48:39 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:31:04 EDT >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> >>Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:37:07 -0500 >>Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:18:44 -0400 >>Subject: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>Yes, but the simple question is this: >>Has Neil Morris been staring at his computer monitor too long, >>or do you agree that the pictures Bond Johnson took in Ramey's >>office are pictures of the 'Real Thing' (as Morris claims)? >>Or do you think that the pictures Morris is analyzing to death >>("See the glyphs! They're everywhere!") are actually those of >>the substituted debris, in other words, a weather balloon and >>Rawin target? >I believe, as Gen. Dubose said in his affidavit, that these are >pictures of a weather balloon. It is easy for people who have never been on a general's staff or worked at the Pentagon to gain misimpressions as to the ways in which military commands function. I never knew a general to sit down and write his own affidavit .. that is why he has a staff! Or is this some affidavit that someone drafted and put before this general many years later? You know, GEN Dubose was quite a bit older than I am and might have had pretty foggy memory by the time the UFO writers interviewed him 40+ years later. Does anyone on the List have a copy of the Dubose affidavit that could be made available to RPIT for its research work? >I also believe, as both Dubose >and Marcel said, that the weather balloon was a cover story put >out by Gen. Ramey. It now appears from a close reading of the Ramey Message that General Ramey may have been ordered in writing to put out the "weather balloon" cover story to give the US government time to strategize as to how to react to the sudden and dramatic Roswell Event. <snip> >Don't be a slimy lawyer badgering the witness with simplistic >black and white alternatives. While I basically think this >material is the remains of a deflated weather balloon and a >RAWIN target, the question may not be entirely that "simple." >I'm trying to keep an open mind here. There remains the >possibility of confusion and some "real debris" being left >behind while a weather balloon was dumped on top. That could >account for anomalous debris being in the mix that shouldn't be >there. I have to give Neil Morris' analyses a fair shake since >he's an intelligent, honest, fair guy. So far, however, I >haven't seen anything terribly convincing to my eye. (The memo >being held by Ramey is another matter entirely.) History records that there were those diehards in Columbus' day who held on to their Flat World theories even after Columbus and his crew discovered the New World. >I also think there is a possible scenario of a military PIO >initially taking a photo of Marcel with "real debris" for >historical purposes. This would have had to take place after I took my pictures and left General Ramey's office since I alone "posed" the debris in the way it is displayed in all the known Ramey office photos, including Newton's. And when I was there no one from the PIO office had been brought into the loop as yet. They may already have gone home for the day and had to be recalled after I had gone. Remember, this was NEVER a "press conference", only one reporter- photographer who pushed his way into the general's office before he arrived on the scene. We now know exactly why this happened and this will be revealed soon. >This could conceivably account for the >Bill Moore version of Marcel's story, where he has Marcel >claiming to have had a single photo taken of him with the real >stuff before it was cleared out and replaced with a weather >balloon for subsequent photos. It is helpful to read what Moore wrote. He and Stanton Friedman interviewed Marcel three times in 1979 -- 32 years after the Roswell Event -- and which is reported in the Berlitz-Moore book on pages 72-75. Key points include: "it certainly wasn't anything built by us and it most certainly wasn't any weather balloon... there was all kinds of stuff---small beams about three eighths or a half inch square with some sort of hieroglyphics on them that nobody could decipher. These looked something like balsa wood, and were of about the same weight, except that they were not wood at all.... One thing that impressed me about the debris was the fact that a lot of it (Marcel also described other types of sheeting) looked like parchment. It had little numbers with symbols that we had to call hieroglyphics because I could not understand them.... they were just like symbols, something that meant something, and they were not all the same, but the same general pattern ... they were pink and purple. "...that next afternoon (July 8, 1947)) we loaded everything into a B-29 on orders from Colonel Blanchard and flew it all to Fort Worth... Just after we got to Carswell, Fort Worth, we were told to bring some of the stuff up to the general's office---that he wanted to take a look at it. We did this and spread it out on the floor on some brown paper. What we had was only a very small portion of the debris--there was a whole lot more... General Ramey allowed some members of the press in to take a picture of this stuff. They took one picture of me on the floor holding up some of the less interesting metallic debris. The press was allowed to photograph this, but were not allowed far enough into the room to touch it. The stuff in that one photo was pieces of the actual stuff we had found. It was not a staged photo. Later they cleared out our wreckage and substituted some of their own... I was not in these. I believe these were taken with the general and one of his aides." Obviously Marcel was not shown the photos at this point and would have been relying on his 32-year-old memory. It is unclear whether Marcel owned any copies of the photos or had even seen them during the interim. I can state from my experience that it is nearly impossible to recall all details with any certainty after such a long time. What is helpful is to realize that Marcel was relying on hearsay as to any "switch" of the debris, since he states that this happened AFTER he left General Ramey's office. RPIT is trying very diligently to finally resolve some of these discrepancies in the record and would welcome any assistance from ufologists. J. Bond Johnson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 ELFIS ISSUE 9 UpDated From: Stephen Lewis <stephen.lewis@tsl.state.tx.us> Date: 30 Aug 1999 15:10:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:48:39 -0400 Subject: ELFIS ISSUE 9 UpDated ELFIS LIST - http://www.elfis.net To subscribe go here - http://elfis.listbot.com Howdy UFO UpDates & ELFIS eListers, Hello from Austin, Tejas. What a month! Recently moved my home and office and so have been struggling to get the latest updates uploaded to www.elfis.net This installment features a hefty contribution from Yankee Oracle and magickal ufologist Eugenia Macer-Story. Macer-Story is an author, researcher, psychic sensitive, entertainer and more. Her PSI-UFO related works have appeared in resources as varied as The MUFON Journal, Magonia, Alternate Perceptions and other zines. She has published several books which explore in-depth the paraufological aspects uncovered through her psisensitive talents. In her latest work featured in this ELFIS installment she reports on the strange goings on at the X-Symposium hosted by X-Zone radio show host Rob McConnell. Macer-Story provides us with this "Gazetteer of Interdimensional Information for the Invisible Government" and she reports upon the strange speakers and the stranger subject matter; from the occult worlds of magick and psychic healing shamanism to psychotronic mind kontrol, UFOs and the Philadelphia Experiment 'myth.' "According to the Random House English Dictionary, a 'gazetteer' is 'a journalist, especially one appointed and paid by the government.' This following report on x-events in St. Catherines, Ontario, Canada and related x-events attached elsewhere in timespace is by mandate of the fundamental government of the interdimensional, collective unconscious which is shared by both the rightful inhabitants of this planet Earth and the denizens of other worlds and territories deemed cosmic, interdimensional and conscious. " Eugenia Macer-Story may be contacted here: http://www.magickmirror.com ELFIS Rants & Reviews: http://www.elfis.net/RnR/ 1999 St. Kitt's HEXibition Part One http://www.elfis.net/RnR/RnR9/HEXibitA.htm 1999 St. Kitt's HEXibition Part One http://www.elfis.net/RnR/RnR9/HEXibitB.htm So please take some time to explore this article as well as the rest of the ELFIS on-line network. Other changes have been made recently like the long overdue installation of the Projects Portal which leads to other ELFIS endeavors like Austin MUFON, the UFO-University-Visible College and the soon to be opened ARVC- Austin Remote Viewing Center where we will be initializing on-going on-line psi experiments. There's not much there now except for a great LINKS page but check em out! ELFIS Projects Portal: http://www.elfis.net/projects.htm Austin MUFON: http://www.elfis.net/AUSTIN/MUFON UFOU-VisibleCollege-Earth's First UFO University: http://www.elfis.net/UFOU ARVC-AustinRemoteViewingCenter: http://www.elfis.net/AUSTIN/RemoteViewingCenter http://www.elfis.net/AUSTIN/RemoteViewingCenter/links.htm Thanks for your time. Look forward to the installation of the Mind Kontrol Corner soon as well as updates of the ELFSTOR, DreamTime NOW, and this very ELFIS LIST which will soon become more active as an information list. More soon! Finally, before you go, here is a list of speakers at the Canadian X-Symposium and misc. news of other UFO conferences, on-line off-site articles and MORE! SMiles Lewis ELFIS founder -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Speakers at the X-Symposium St. Catherines, Ontario, Canada: May 13-16, 1999 In Order of Appearance ROB McCONNELL WILLIAM BARNES MICHAEL STELLITANO PATRICK CROSS MARIA FIX MARSHALL BARNES PETER NOVAK GIORGIO TSOUKALOS EUGENIA MACER-STORY STAN MALLOW PALMIRO CAMPAGNA JANET RUSSELL ERICH VON DANIKEN Contact Information available through Magick Mirror Communications: http://www.magickmirror.com "Customer Service" Link -=-=-=-=-=-=- FortFest'99 When: Nov. 5-7 (party only on the 5th) Where: Holiday Inn, College Park,Md Phone 301-345-6700 ReservationBlock #3107 $79/ night includes parking Cheap Airfares are available if ordered before Sept. 2 from Metrojet, Southwest, USAIR, Air Canada from Toronto, Midway from Chicago, and Virgin from the United Kingdom. Who : John Michell Bud Hopkins John Keel Dr. Michael Grosso NDEs Dave Walsh, Near Drunk Experiences Ivar Zapp, Atlantian origins of Alphabet Antonio Hunees, FATEs UFO man Soviet Sightings Doug Skinner, Scientific Method Includes Sat. Lunch, and banquet. Sunday Breakfast Buffet Prices and more speakers will be posted Sept. 8 Puca -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- AUSTIN MUFON GALLERY: Also, please be sure to visit the inaugural installment of the Austin MUFON Gallery at our Capital of Texas Chapter web site at this url: http://www.elfis.net/austin/mufon/gallery.htm Here you will find a couple of pictures from the aforementioned MUFON symposium. These were taken and sent to us from Mr Abercrombie and feature past Austin MUFON leaders Ellen and Monte Stuart as well as a picture of them with Budd Hopkins and another friend. The Gallery also features a few pictures from the 25th Annual MUFON Symposium held here in Austin back in 1994. Pictures include Walt Andrus, Linda Cortile, Karla Turner and more. If you have pictures from other local MUFON activities please feel free to send them to us for posting in the Gallery. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- CONSTANCE CLEAR: The other day I was lucky to catch San Antonio's own latest addition to the UFO community, author and hypnotherapist Constance Clear. Clear was in Austin at Bookpeople promoting her first UFO book Reaching For Reality. She describes it as a book to help abductees cope with their experiences. Reaching For Reality details the experiences of seven abductees who all live within 200 miles of the San Antonio, Texas environs. Constance Clear, M.A. M.S.W., is more than qualified to point out the sanity of her patients. She formed an Abductee Support Group several years ago in San Antonio which still meets regularly. Her book has been positively received by San Antonio author/experiencer Whitley Strieber as well as abduction researcher John Mack. Clear also reported that she has already appeared on both the Art Bell and Jeff Rense radio shows and expects to return to the airwaves soon, time permiting. Constance Clear spent nearly two hours engaging the twenty to thirty attendees at the free book-signing in rapt dialogue on the subject of alien abduction. When we exchanged insights related to our both having led abduction support groups the dialogue continued and increased in its depth. However, many things were left unanswered, as is usually the case with all things ufological. If you missed this book-signing or would like to see Constance Clear speak again . . . check her out in San Antonio at the 36th Annual National UFO Conference! Details below. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- NATIONAL UFO CONFERENCE: 36th National UFO Conference - San Antonio, Texas The Anomalist Hosts the 36th National UFO Conference The world's oldest UFO conference will be hosted in San Antonio, Texas, this year by The Anomalist. Dates are Saturday and Sunday, September 25 & 26, 1999. Location is the Seven Oaks Hotel & Conference Center, 1400 Austin Highway, San Antonio. Speakers and subjects are as follows: Walt Andrus: The Disappearance of Frederich Valentich in Australia Jim Moseley (Conference Chairman, MC, editor and publisher of "Saucer Smear"): Weird Personal Experiences of a Skeptical Believer Patrick Huyghe (Co-editor of The Anomalist): The Alien Horde: A Field Guide Approach to the Unknown Karl Pflock: Behind the Flying Saucers: A New Twist on Aztec Constance Clear ("Reaching for Reality"): Abductees: Human Ambassadors or Lab Rats? Tom Deuley: MJ-12 & the El Indio-Guerrero Crash Linda Corley: An Intimate Conversation with Major Jesse A. Marcel, Sr. (Marcel's last interview.) Joe Firmage: The Truth and the ISSO Kevin Randle: The Abduction Enigma: A Scientific Analysis Whitely Strieber: Why Do We Deny It? (Including new video.) Special Guest: East Coast literary agent Cherry Weiner. Make an appointment! $45 advance, $60 door. Rooms $45, suites $75. For room reservations, call 1-800 346-5866 and be sure to ask for the above Conference rates. Advance registrations should be made payable to Dennis Stacy and sent to PO Box 12434, San Antonio, TX 78212. E-mail dstacy@texas.net for a Conference flyer and speaker schedule. Include your snail mail address or send a long SASE to the above address. Hope to see you there! Dennis Stacy http://www.anomalist.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- MISC NEWS: *UFO MAGAZINE Check out the August issue of America's UFO MAGAZINE wherein ufo stalwart Richard Hall resigns, The Excluded Middle's own Greg Bishop writes on Remote Viewing, articles on mind control and military abductions are abundant. There is also a tribute to military mind control saavy abduction researcher Dr. Karla Turner. Check out the following web addresses for more: Richard Hall's unplubished goodbye- http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/aug/m07-018.shtml Greg Bishop's The Excluded Middle- http://www.primenet.com/~exclmid/ Tribute to Karla Turner- http://www.ufomag.com/archive/karla.html -=-=-=- *FORTEAN TIMES Checkout the new Fortean Times which has a cover article based on revelations from the upcoming release (in America) of the latest Remote Viewing revelations book: Stargate Conspiracy by Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince. Within this book much is told of the connections between Andrija Puharich, Uri Geller, Ira Einhorn, Gene Rodenberry, Lyal Watson and the channeled messages of The Nine. Read part of the article on-line... http://www.forteantimes.com/artic/126/nine.html -=-=-=- *LOREN COLEMAN A Short Tale of Slag, "Explosives," and the Loch Ness Monster - or, Mr Coleman visits Steamshovel Press' Kenn Thomas (who has investigated the Maury Island Slag UFO incident) and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: Ben Field <ben@abcfield.force9.co.uk> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:45:46 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:48:39 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:37:07 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> >>Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 10:03:35 -0700 >>Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:58:02 -0400 >>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell <snip> >Has Neil Morris been staring at his computer monitor too long, >or do you agree that the pictures Bond Johnson took in Ramey's >office are pictures of the 'Real Thing' (as Morris claims)? Dear List Some of you may know me from emails I have sent to this list as Ben Field from BUFOD : http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk , well I would also like to introduce myself as Ben from RPIT. I joined the RPIT after J.Bond invited me to become an analysis of the photos that he had taken in 1947. I joined the team with a total open mind and still hold this open mind as to what the debris is in these photos, at this point in time, I can not say that there is no sign of a weather balloon in the pictures but what I have found in the past year is that there are definitely some materials and objects that do not resemble or are part of that of the make-up of a weather balloon. The RPIT can't make people see what we see and I don't claim to see everything that Neil Morris sees, but there are certain things in the pictures that are so easy to find. It is obvious that we are going to get people who disagree with our findings, some of our analysis shows things that totally mess around with other Roswell investigators findings, so these are not going to be happy with what we have to say, but all I say is that we should all keep an open mind, no one here know the real truth and the only way we are going to find out is by working together, these photos are just a small part of a big puzzle and until some of the pieces start fitting together no one is going to progress with the picture, we can't just keep throwing pieces of the puzzle away, we have to collect them all up and find the pieces that fit together!! >Or do you think that the pictures Morris is analyzing to death >("See the glyphs! They're everywhere!") are actually those of >the substituted debris, in other words, a weather balloon and >Rawin target? You're right, if you look at the debris for long enough you can see glyphs everywhere, but the glyphs that Neil and other RPIT members point out are not ones that you have to look for that hard, they are there for you to see, you don't have to be good with computers or image analysis, they can be seen with the naked eye. >Is Morris right, in which case these pictures are the real >thing? >Or are you right, in which case what we're looking at here is >pictures of a balloon and tin-foil? I don't think anyone is at a point in saying what this debris is 100%, but the RPIT work does show that its not just balloon and tin-foil in the pictures, the RPIT has only been running for a year and the Roswell story is over 50 years old, we are not going to come to a conclusion in this such sort a time, all we ask is for people to listen to what we have to say, look at our work and watch our results progress, help us out, we are always open to your comments. A last note, keep an open mind don't just dismiss our work, save up the pieces of information that we offer, they will fit in the puzzle somewhere!! All the best Ben Field ben@abcfield.force9.co.uk BUFOD
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 Sighting Reports Via UFO Scotland - 08-31-99 From: Dave Ledger <dledger@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:13:45 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:48:39 -0400 Subject: Sighting Reports Via UFO Scotland - 08-31-99 Dear listmembers, Here is another compilation of recently received UFO sighting reports via the UFO Scotland sighting reports page FYI. Some of the Scotland reports are currently under research, but we would also like to ask anyone who may be interested and in a position to help, to please assist with the sighting reports outwith Scotland etc as it is impossible for us to look fairly and closely at these reports, or supply any assistance/support that is required. Many thanks in advance :0) Dave Ledger (UFO Scotland) Sightings follow: Subject: Sighting Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:01:33 +0100 From: "J K" <XXXXXXXXX@virgin.net> To: <dledger@cableinet.co.uk> Sorry to bother you but do you know of a number I can call to register or find out about sightings. Today Saturday I have witnessed an object which was extremely unusual, over Cumbernauld Scotland. The object was witnessed by a few people as I could not understand what I was seeing and I wanted others to witness it. I have taken photographs of the object but would like to investigate it further. I would be grateful of any assistance you could give me. Thanks James E-mail follow-up: I have attached the answers to your questions below. As soon as I get the pics developed you will get a copy no problem. Jim >1: Location: As precise as possible including nearest major town or >city. Cumbernauld, Glasgow >2: Date: 21st August 1999 >3: Time: Between 5.00 & 6.30pm. >4: Direction: Going initially east then south east then north west. >5: Weather conditions Dry sunny with some cloud: >6: Duration of sighting: secs, mins, ( Over 1 hour total at various times. >7: Colour: White or silver, >8: Size: To high to establish real size >9: Speed: At first it was stationary then moved slowly east, >then a south east direction, it then went in behind the clouds >and re-appeared 15 minutes later, wher it again changed course >and moved northwest, then disappeared in the clouds totally. >10: Height: To start it was at cruising jet height, then came >down to cloud level. >11: 5 Witnesses >12: No sound It appeared that when jets were close by it was evident that it went into cloud cover. At first I thought it was a weather balloon, but the eratic movements and disaapearing and re-appearing was not normal. I thought I was imagining it to start but when i noticed it stationary for so long i then started to watch it, I showeed my wife and her friend and they saw it also. When it disaappeared and re-appeared i went into my neighbour and asked if he had a video camera, so that I could video it, he saw the object as did his daughter. It was at this point i photographed it I do not know how clear the pic will be. I know it sounds simple but when you see something like that you do not know what to make of it therefore the e-mail to yourself;. For all I know it may have been a weather ballon but to me it was a real mystery. PS I am not a crank I am a professional buisnessman, who is looking for an answer. Thanks Jim *********************************************************************** Subject: INCOMING FORM Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:27:27 -0700 From: ralph.storey@worldnet.att.net To: dledger@cableinet.co.uk Name : Ralph Storey date: : august 22, 1999 location: : From my home, San Jose, California time : 11:25-11:45 AM : on My_Sighting_Submission : It shone white, bright. It was a small sphere (seemed very high altitude). I noticed the object only because I was starring out the window. Moved very slowly, then stopped in mid-air and hovered for approximently fifteen minutes, then disappeared. I would have thought it was a star, except that I saw it move and then stop. It became smaller before it disappeared. **************************************************************** Subject: INCOMING FORM Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:39:51 -0700 From: XXXXXX.freeserve.co.uk To: dledger@cableinet.co.uk E-mail generated by MailForm Lite version 1.3.7 THIS IS AN EVALUATION COPY OF MAILFORM. Name : Lola date: : 21/ 22 August 1999 location: : Doune, Perthshire time : 2.30 AM GMT My_Sighting_Submission : We had been watching the sky for the past few nights as we previously had quite an amazing experience in London a few weeks before. At about 1.30 AM my partner saw what looked like a bright orange star with what looked like a strobe of light coming from it shoot across the sky to the north west flashing and zipping ( towards creiff )we had seen quite a number of shooting stars but nothing like this. Later around 2.30 AM we were both watching the sky two objects came from the direction of Doune Quarry travelling East towards Dunblane and the SheriffMuir Hills one behind the other, they were no more than ten feet apart. They looked like the most intense orange glow with a dark shape in the centre. They were only about 200ft off the ground and made absolutely no sound. At the point when they reaching the Doune playing field the object behind moved up to the right side of the other and they continued moving side by side. At this time we could still hear the odd car on the motorway but not a sound from these objects. They seemed to be on a heading towards a larger orange star in the distance, they flew underneath this star and it seemed to flash in response and in a second they were gone.From start to finish this whole sighting took place in less than a minute. Another similar submission that was received by the same source with additional info: We have been skywatching for sometime and have noticed a lot of activity in the sky, especially of late ,there seems to be quite a lot of shooting stars, and stars that can move quickly , able to fast change directions, I'm not an astronomer but isn't that unusual. On this morning my partner was watching the sky from the back garden and saw what can only be described as an large bright star very high up, with what seemed to be a strobe of light ,zipping and flashing as if searching for something ,then zoom across the sky towards the North West [Creiff area].Later about 2.30 AM as we stood in the street, we had a wonderful view of the sky, it was almost completely clear and filled with stars there were a couple of small patches of dark cloud which were so wispy thin that you could still clearly see the stars as they passed over. We were amazed when from the direction of the Doune Quarry two objects appeared , they were intense orange glowing globes one behind the other and about ten feet apart,as they moved closer we could see that they seemed to be surrounding a darker shape it was hard to make the exact shape out because it was completely surrounded by this intense light.At the point where they reached the Doune Playing fields the object behind moved up to the right hand side of the the other and they continued to travel like this. They seemed to be heading East in the direction of Dunblane and the SheriffMuir Hills . There was a large orange star in the distance and once the objects were underneath this star it seemed to give out a flash of white light, a second later we lost sight. we do not think these objects were helicopters or planes. The were surrounded by light, not flashing lights or spotlights. And despite the fact it was early morning and we could still hear the odd car on the motorway these objects made absolutely no sound whatsoever. **************************************************************** Subject: Circles on a football pitch. Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:53:45 +0100 From: "Mark Fraser\\ Haunted Scotland." <MarkFraser@hauntedscotland.freeserve.co.uk> Alien Rovers. Invasion fear as weird rings appear on Minnow's pitch. Soccer Minnows Albion Rovers fear an alien invasion - after weird black rings appeared on their pitch overnight. UFO experts believe the twelve circles, only visible from the air, show the clubs crumbling Cliftonhill stadium is being used as a secret flying saucer site. Last night Jimmy Lyndsay, assistant boss at the Third Division strugglers, said: "I can assure you if we do see any aliens we will try to snap them up on the Bosman free transfer ruling. Whatever caused these circles it wasn't us running rings round the opposition." The marking's at Rover's ground in Coatbridge, Lanarkshire, were spotted by a photographer taking photograph's from a helicopter. Each ring measures around five yards in diameter and they cover half of the patch..... but the alien invasion has failed to score with furious groundsman Hugh McBride, he said : "I would like to know what is going on. I have never seen anything like it before..... some of the circles seem to plot out a path to the goalpost's, so maybe somebody is trying to tell us something." **************************************************************** Subject: INCOMING FORM Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:59:41 -0700 To: dledger@cableinet.co.uk Name : lonna wagner date: : jan.1988 location: : sterling illinois time : 8:30 PM : on My_Sighting_Submission : what i saw was very large. larger than a football field. it was very close, flying above buildings. maybe a hundred yards away. LONNA WAGNER 4048 ESCH ROAD DODGEVILLE WI 53533. **************************************************************** Subject: Monkton, Ayrshire. Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 07:44:27 +0100 From: "Mark Fraser\\ Haunted Scotland." <MarkFraser@hauntedscotland.freeserve.co.uk> Last Thursday evening (ED: This was either the 19th or 26th of August 1999) at approx 22.00hrs a couple were driving through Monkton in Ayrshire, Scotland, when in the sky above them they saw a blue flash of light, this 'light' then shot down towards them and hovered above the car for a matter of seconds, before 'travelling' away in the opposite direction to which they were travelling. The light was only a matter of feet above their vehicle and blocked out the windscreen. The couple were terrified although unharmed..........I have not yet seen the witnesses as they talked to my wife, but hopefully will do soon. Anyone hearing of any sightings around the same time and location then I would be very grateful to hear from them..... cheers! Mark Fraser. **************************************************************** All for now but more to follow in the future as we receive them. Thank you for your time. All the best to everyone and thankyou to anyone in the research investigation fields, who can further follow up on any sightings deemed worthy of further research and also outwith the Scotland area. Kind regards to all, >From your friend, Dave Ledger (UFO Scotland) -- ================================================================== If you see someone without a smile......give them one of yours :) ****************************************************************** Posted by: Dave Ledger (mailto:UFOSCOT@cableinet.co.uk) VISIT "UFO SCOTLAND" AT: <A HREF="http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/">UFO Scotland.</A> JOIN the UFO Scotland mailing list at: <A HREF="http://UFOscotland.listbot.com">UFO Scotland Mail List.</A> ICQ No: #4851425 ****************************************************************** THE TRUTH IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER!..................BUT HOW FAR? ================================================================== "The sands of time are trickling away from our dear mother Earth and yet we continue to fight amongst ourselves and destroy our natural enviroment,leaving all the mess for our children and their
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 MSN's 'UFO Community' Becomes 'DESTINATION: SPACE' From: Diana Botsford <Diana_Botsford@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:04:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:48:39 -0400 Subject: MSN's 'UFO Community' Becomes 'DESTINATION: SPACE' "Something wonderful is going to happen"! ...2010, The Movie In a bold new chapter of exploration, we say farewell to MSN on August 30th and embark on a new website that will premiere later this fall entitled: DESTINATION: SPACE (http://www.destinationspace.net). Expanding on our coverage of the UFO phenomenon, DESTINATION: SPACE will provide coverage and a home for community on topics including: Astronomy/Space: NASA/JPL and beyond. With the advent of privately funding aeronautical firms such as Robert Bigelow's, the space race is truly on. Slippery Disks: The ever elusive search for the truth behind the UFO Phenomenon. Focusing on the efforts of researchs, investigators, historians and activists - join us in asking the hard questions. Planetary Sciences: From life on Jupiter's moons to the ozone depletion on our own. Find out what the scientific community is discovering and how you can be a part of it. Final Frontier: Quantum Physics, Fusion Power and how it affects our future. The Mind's Eye: The world of the fantastic. Tomorrow's science is today's fiction and we welcome it's inspiration from individuals such as Arthur C. Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Marion Zimmer Bradley and a few new surprises. Pysche & Soul: The mythologies of the past and the religions of today often clash in their theories and intentions. Sitting smack in the middle is man's attempt to understand just what a 'spiritual experience' is. Join us in a look beyond the differences with an eye towards the similiarities of the Spirit. Throughout DESTINATION: SPACE you'll find links to the latest breakthroughs in everything from Archaology (and it's implications on our civilization) to successes (and failures) of leading edge scientists the world over to the latest findings from the realm of Ufology in it's >From column pieces, reviews, commentaries to the stuff that makes a community truly a home: chats, message boards, guest speakers.... All this and more will be available at DESTINATION:SPACE in the upcoming weeks. So stay tuned, keep your eyes and mind open and get ready for the 21st Century. Diana Botsford Executive Producer DESTINATION: SPACE http://www.destinationspace.net - - - - - - "To follow knowledge like a sinking star, Beyond the utmost bound of human thought . . To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield." Tennyson's Ulysses ++++++++++++ Q&A's about DESTINATION: SPACE 1) Q: Why is MSN shutting down the UFO Community on MSN? A: MSN is closing all content managed communities and moving towards a terrific system called User Created Communities (UCC's). You can join in and create your own message board and chat room at http://beta.communities.msn.com. The UFO Staff is committed to continuing their work and has decided to begin again with a new location and an expanded approach. 2) Q: When will DESTINATION:SPACE be up and running? A: DS anticipates a mid-September premiered. HOWEVER! We intend to have our chat room up and running by the Labor Day so watch closely for chat announcements. 3) Q: How can one get involved either by contributing an article or as a chat host for DESTINATION: SPACE? A: You can contact us at join@destinationspace.net and let us know how you'd like to participate.
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 [M-TRAC - MSAA] Mercury, Gravity, and the TR3-B From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:17:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:48:39 -0400 Subject: [M-TRAC - MSAA] Mercury, Gravity, and the TR3-B >From owner-cydonia-outgoing@listbox.com Fri Aug 27 21:48:16 1999 From: Steve Wingate <stevew@magiclink.net> To: IUFO <iufo@world.std.com>, Antigravity@onelist.com, cydonia@admin.listbox.com, Skywatch <Skyopen@onelist.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:43:29 -0700 Subject: [M-TRAC - MSAA] Mercury, Gravity, and the TR3-B I saw a prototype of the TR3-B fly land and takeoff, twice, and yes, it does exist. --SW. Note to Travis AF, I'm the one flashing the 'birdie' to your reconnaissance plane pilot. He was flying too close to the house. 100 feet. ;-| (Someone from MTRAC asked for a link to this a while back) Source: http://www.anomalous-images.com/text/speech.html SLIDE 72: TR-3B Schematic diagram A circular, plasma filled accelerator ring called the Magnetic Field Disrupter, surrounds the rotatable crew compartment and is far ahead of any imaginable technology. Sandia and Livermore laboratories developed the reverse engineered MFD technology. The government will go to any lengths to protect this technology. The plasma, mercury based, is pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin and accelerated to 50,000 rpm to create a super-conductive plasma with the resulting gravity disruption. The MFD generates a magnetic vortex field, which disrupts or neutralizes the effects of gravity on mass within proximity, by 89 percent. Do not misunderstand. This is not antigravity. Anti-gravity provides a repulsive force that can be used for propulsion. The MFD creates a disruption of the Earth's gravitational field upon the mass within the circular accelerator. The mass of the circular accelerator and all mass within the accelerator, such as the crew capsule, avionics, MFD systems, fuels, crew environmental systems, and the nuclear reactor, are reduced by 89%. This causes the effect of making the vehicle extremely light and able to outperform and outmaneuver any craft yet constructed--except, of course, those UFOs we did not build. The TR-3B is a high altitude, stealth, reconnaissance platform with an indefinite loiter time. Once you get it up there at speed, it doesn�t take much propulsion to maintain altitude. At Groom Lake their have been whispered Rumors of a new element that acts as a catalyst to the plasma. With the vehicle mass reduced by 89%, the craft can travel at Mach 9, vertically or horizontally. My sources say the performance is limited only the stresses that the human pilots can endure. Which is a lot, really, considering along with the 89% reduction in mass, the G forces are also reduced by 89%. The TR-3Bs propulsion is provided by 3 multimode thrusters mounted at each bottom corner of the triangular platform. The TR-3 is a sub-Mach 9 vehicle until it reaches altitudes above l20,000 feet--then God knows how fast it can go! The 3 multimode rocket engines mounted under each corner of the craft use hydrogen or methane and oxygen as a propellent. In a liquid oxygen/hydrogen rocket system, 85% of the propellent mass is oxygen. The nuclear thermal rocket engine uses a hydrogen propellent, augmented with oxygen for additional thrust. The reactor heats the liquid hydrogen and injects liquid oxygen in the supersonic nozzle, so that the hydrogen burns concurrently in the liquid oxygen afterburner. SLIDE 73: TR-3B The multimode propulsion system can; operate in the atmosphere, with thrust provided by the nuclear reactor, in the upper atmosphere, with hydrogen propulsion, and in orbit, with the combined hydrogen\ oxygen propulsion. What you have to remember is, that the 3 rocket engines only have to propel 11 percent of the mass of the Top Secret TR-3B. The engines are reportedly built by Rockwell. SLIDE 74: C-130 The original picture of the TR-3B was taken with a digital camera that was carried onto a black - special operations C-130. An Air Force Special Operations sergeant took the picture while The C-130, was flying mission support for the TR-3B. The current picture, a computer graphic representation, was created from the sergeant�s digital picture using 3D studio. This picture hangs on the wall in the black vault, at the Aurora Program Office. I�m not at liberty to say where I got these other pictures of the TR-3B. SLIDE 75: TR-3B Original >From the evolution of exotic materials, advanced avionics, and newer propulsion engines the stealth aircraft were born. Leaps in technology have been obtained with reverse engineering of Alien Artifacts as described in the newly released MJ-12 Revised Charter, signed during the Regan administration. According to Jerald�s account, the technology developed at Papoose far exceeded any known within the world scientific community. Technology that we can assuredly assume was developed, from reverse engineering of recovered alien artifacts. The control of all Alien Artifacts; the research, the reverse engineering, and analysis of the extraterrestrial biological entities (EBEs) has been transferred to the super-secret laboratory called the Defense Advanced Research Center or DARC. SLIDE 76: TR-3B 600 feet wide Operational Model Many sightings of triangular UFOs are not alien vehicles but the top secret TR-3B. The NSA, NRO, CIA, and USAF have been playing a shell game with aircraft nomenclature - creating the TR-3, modified to the TR-3A, the TR-3B, and the Teir 2, 3, and 4, with suffixes like Plus or Minus added on to confuse further the fact that each of these designators is a different aircraft and not the same aerospace vehicle. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Wingate California Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Anomalous Images and UFO Files http://www.anomalous-images.com -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o- Mars Surface Anomaly Analysis Possible artifacts on Mars http://www.mufor.org/ares/ The M-TRAC Project A private, unmanned mission to Mars http://www.mufor.org/mtrac/
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 Projects Sign & Bluebook: Research Update From: Wendy Connors <ProjectSign@email.msn.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:11:17 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 09:45:49 -0400 Subject: Projects Sign & Bluebook: Research Update Greetings to UFO Update Contributors, The official history of Operation Paperclip (aka Project Paperclip), formerly known as Operation Overcast before it was compromised, has been obtained by Wendy Connors and Michael Hall. These files, containing approximately 2000+ documents, are now housed at the Project SIGN Research Center Archives and have not been circulated to the public before this time. These documents detail the exploitation of German scientist's and technicians to the United States at the end of WW II and how they were integrated into this nations scientific resources. Although these documents do not contain information relating directly to unidentified flying objects, they are important to ufologists for several reasons. First, these documents show what each scientist was working on while at Wright Field (Wright-Patterson AFB) and the subsequent release of many of these scientists to assist various corporations in the U. S. in regards to aeronautics, etc. Secondly, the history gives a detailed look at the lack of manpower, equipment and funding for research following the transition from a wartime based economy to that of a peace time economy and the inherent difficulties sustained by the Air Force during this time. Third, these documents give an insight into the men and organization which would later take on the first official investigation of unidentified flying objects under Project SIGN. Project SIGN being the first official UFO investigation and followed by Projects Grudge and Blue Book in subsequent years. Lastly, these documents provide a look into many of the various projects being conducted by both the military and the U.S. corporations contracted in the fields of aeronautics. At this time no documentation within these histories has lead to concrete factuality of the U.S. military being involved in advanced low aspect ratio aircraft of a lenticular or disc-shaped design beyond the capablities of technology inherent for the times, nor in the factuality of the German Third Reich having such advanced aircraft as a conventional flying saucer as envisioned and understood by the majority in the field of ufology. However, these documents, as well as others recently obtained, do show that the limited funding available for research and development during the 1946-1949 time period were used primarily in jet engine technology and rocket technology. As time permits many of the most important documents will be made available to researchers. Due to cost factors involved we ask that those researchers who are sent documents to please forward copies to other researchers in order to gain the widest distribution possible. Thank you,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 02:18:58 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:53:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:45:07 -0400 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 01:21:44 EDT >>Subject: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Been doing some thinking. Been wondering why it is Errol >>Bruce-Knapp prints half the stuff he does ... mine included. >>Been wondering what people think about my silly fossifies and >>Gesundt's sillier poop. But most of all I been wondering why it >>is that some folks out there haven't seen the hypocrisy in their >>"truth." ><snip> >In Defense Of Silliness >Yes, Gesundt, I understand the point out are making through that >fog of Gripple and Prozac (perhaps Nembutal and even Soma?) >I have been loath to get into a big discussion of 'Why The Hell >Do We Do This....?' >But, here it is. >Why in heck do I spend so much time defending poor long-gone >Kenneth against the onslaught of The Birds? Why should I care >whether or not Lonnie saw a lot of hot air supporting a balloon? >I certainly wouldn't care except for >(a) these cases have been brought up by others (that's how > they were selected for discussion... >(b) they are cases I have studied >(c) they are cases which seem quite solid from my perspective > and, finally, >(d) wouldn't in be nice if there were at least _one_ case that > everyone (barring Uncle Phil) could _agree_ on? >This last really is the crux of the issue. Let a thousans >prosaic explanations bloom. Most of th blooms will be >dandelions, susceptible to Occam's Lawnmower (wow! Bet You heard >that here first, folks) giving a close shave to the field of >blooms. >But perhaps one prosaic explanation will seem, to someone who is >skeptical, to have merit and therefore should be run through >the ringer. Perhaps said prosaic explanation seems silly to >those who have made up their minds, but nevertheless it is the >job of scientists to defend each potential explanation up to the >point where accepting th explanation makes less sense than >accepting an unexplained case. >Really, what we want is a totally _inexplicable_ case that >everyone can agree on. We can only know if it is truly >unexplainable by trying all conceivable explanations, even the >seemingly silly ones. <sbip> >Anyway, despite the time it takes I will be willing to maintain >a discussion/argument with rational skeptics in spite of >the apparent silliness in some cases in th hopes of getting >a conscensus on _something_... after all >Can't We All Just Get Along? I would like very much to argue against your logic. But only on one front. Only on one point. Bruce, you've got the patience, I do not. In addition, and with all that patience, wouldn't it be really nice if we were to spend all that time and logic at attempting something more than merely a conscensus? I think so. Remember the cartoon of the two vultures sitting on a fence? One says to the other, "Patience my ass, let's go KILL something!" Well all that time, logic and effort for consensus would, in my opinion, be better, more profitably applied on the problem, not the jerks and their debunking poop. Example... "It's definitely a pelican screwing in mid air." "Nope, it's an anomolous flying object(s)." I've just wasted ten seconds. Do like Dennis the Menace just did a few posts back, do the math. His mind boggled at the numbers. Mine does too. With respect for your patience and intestinal fortitude. Me? I just got gas. And it aint swamp gas. I think it's Irritable Bowel Syndrome.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:53:35 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:08:04 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:03:46 EDT >Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:56:31 -0400 >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >According to the testimonies of General DuBose, Major marcel and >flight engineer Robert Porter, there were two separate flights >bringing debris to Fort Worth that day : >- The one described by Porter (and Marcel himself), with Marcel >and other officers, carrying small, very light, well wrapped >boxes ; >- The one described by DuBose, bringing the balloon debris in a >large unsealed canvas pouch. DuBose was there, he did not see >Marcel in that plane, he carried himself the bag to Ramey's >office and had it displayed on the floor. He stated very clearly >that he never saw the real debris! Dubose described an earlier flight than Marcel's, which he remembered as being several days before, not the same day. This is when Roswell base informed him of the crash and apparently having some material. When he relayed this up to acting SAC Chief, Gen. McMullen, he was ordered to have the material shipped immediately to Washington by "colonel courier." The flight arrived at night in FW, where Dubose met it. The material was transferred to Col. Clarke, the FW deputy base commander, and flown on another plane to Washington. The bag was sealed and attached to the wrists of the couriers, so Dubose certainly never saw the "real debris" here. Dubose said this was all done in the "strictest secrecy." Gen. Ramey was away from the base, and even he wasn't to be told about it. Dubose added that McMullen later informed him that this material was then shipped to Wright Field from Washington on McMullen's personal plane. One possibility is that this flight was of some debris samples that Mac Brazel had brought with him to Roswell on July 6, two days before Marcel's flight. If this account of Dubose's is correct, both Washington and Wright Field were well aware of the nature of the debris long before Marcel returned from the debris field. If it was of a balloon, one presumes this information would have been relayed down through the chain of command well before the infamous events of July 8th unfolded. Wright Field having a chance to examine the debris early on might also account for the part of the FBI telegram of July 8, in which it was stated that Wright Field was contacted by phone and disagreed with the assessment that this was weather balloon and radar target. Incidentally, Dubose's statements about this flight to Washington is mentioned incompletely and out of context in the AF Report by Lt. McAndrew. McAndrew spins it to McMullen having the debris flown to Washington where it was supposedly identified by the AAF weather service there. No mention was made of the high security or of the further flight to Wright Field (which would have been completely unnecessary if it had been identified). Further, McAndrew disengenuously attributes the story to "crashed disk proponents," rather than to one of the Air Force's own retired generals. Dubose's name is completely erased from this report, not even identified in the photos. He is a nonentity. The fact that the A.F. had to run like hell from Dubose's testimony I think is very significant. Marcel's testimony wasn't included either. Marcel's flight, in contrast, was in daylight, and the material was transferred to another plane and flown directly to Wright Field, by all accounts. Marcel said he took some samples to Ramey's office and laid them out for Ramey to see. If Dubose never saw the real stuff, then he didn't see these debris samples either. Whatever was in the photos, then, was not what Marcel brought. Marcel claimed the original stuff was removed and replaced with the weather balloon. Dubose, I don't believe, never directly stated that there was a debris substitution. But if he never saw the original debris, then he was saying it indirectly. Regardless, he fully corroborated Marcel that the weather balloon story was a cover story to get rid of the press. This was a high-level officer backing up Marcel. A third flight was described by Lewis Rickett, another of the CIC men in Marcel's office. According to Rickett, this was a sealed package of debris which Marcel handed over to Sheridan Cavitt, who passed it on to Rickett. This flight came directly from Washington and returned to Washington. Most likely this occurred the same day as Marcel's flight. However you slice it, with all these flights, this had to be the most important and mysterious rubber and tinfoil balloon debris since creation. >You leave the door open to the possibility that some real debris >might have been mixed to the weather balloon. This is nice of >you, but it seems very dubious. I have looked at the details >sent by RPIT, I have looked at the CD Rom of Stan Friedman, and >I have seen nothing peculiar there. According to Marcel, the original stuff was removed and replaced with the weather balloon. I was leaving open the possibility that in the heat of the moment, not all of the original material got removed and got mixed in with the substitute debris. Neil Morris' work deserves a fair look. Even if he finds something clearly man-made, but not part of a Mogul, that tells us something.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Daylight Flying Triangle Footage From: Sue and John Strickland <strick@H2Net.net> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:09:22 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:11:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Daylight Flying Triangle Footage >Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:27:26 -0500 >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: Daylight Flying Triangle Footage >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:05:44 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: Daylight Flying Triangle Footage Hi Amy, Thanks for posting the photo. It's quite interesting. I'm wondering what the 2 objects are that are to the upper right of object your arrow points to? If you follow the tail of the arrow upward and to the right, there are 2 anomalous other objects in the sky... one is a faded-out disc shape, the other a smaller rectangle. Do you see them? I magnified them, and they both have distinct bit maps on the computer, as does the object your arrow points to. Sue
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:33:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:39:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:45:07 -0400 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Why in heck do I spend so much time defending poor long-gone >Kenneth against the onslaught of The Birds? Why should I care >whether or not Lonnie saw a lot of hot air supporting a balloon? I'm not really sure what is going on with these "pelican" posts as I seem to have joined the discussion in the middle (or near the end?). However, I've listened to all kinds of discussions for years about what a sighting may or may not have been - with and without photographic/video taped evidence. People come up with all kinds of reasonable as well as outrageous explanations as to what UFOs may or may not be but it never really changes the original event. Once you have seen a genuine UFO close enough to _know_ it is a UFO, whatever origins it may have, you never need to spend time debating whether or not UFOs exist or whether or not one sighting is more genuine than the next. If you were not there, you can never really know what someone saw or did not see (unless the event is duplicated or you conduct a thorough investigation - at the time). All you'll ever have is the testimony of the eye witness or witnesses. People can say it was this or that but no matter how much you debate the issue, there will never be any way to really prove anything one way or the other especially if it happened 10, 20, 40 or 50 years ago. I always wonder what people hope to accomplish by spending more time discussing something they cannot prove or disprove when they might learn more by getting out and having their own "close encounter" or actively studying the data collected thus far. Those of us who have had enough close encounters to last a lifetime have moved on to the next level of awareness and now seek to adapt our paradigms to a much larger reality we have only just begun to glimpse. Looking back all the time may cause us to bump into a reality coming at us head on. Are we prepared? Amy Home Page: "http://members.tripod.com/TheVanguard"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Research Proposal - Hypnotic Suggestibility From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 10:00:41 PDT Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:44:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Research Proposal - Hypnotic Suggestibility >From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Research Proposal - Hypnotic Suggestibility >Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:46:18 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Subject: Re: Research Proposal - Hypnotic Suggestibility >>Date: Wed, 25 Aug 99 19:07:12 PDT >>>From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: Research Proposal - Hypnotic Suggestibility >>>Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:55:13 -0500 Hi, Tim, >I also hold the opinion that some of the abduction data is >probably the result of something that we genuinely do not >understand, be it ETs, ultraterrestrials, whatever. My point >merely is that one can have an opinion on what the data shows >(pro or con) and be neutral, as long as one is willing to accept >it if and when that opinion is proven to be incorrect, and that >one can still think that _some_ of this stuff is genuinely >mysterious and that some is bunk without buying into every >argument offered from either side. My view precisely. >When I hang around the believers, I'm the token skeptic, and >when surrounded by skeptics, I'm the tru believer. I'm really >neither, but I accept that playing the role of The Devil's >Advocate will often make one appear to be that way. Jeez, and I thought I was the only one. I suspect that you and I are fated to get along just fine. Cordially, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 Robert A.M. Stephens - Railroad Redux From: JBSaxton@aol.com Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:02:31 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 12:02:21 -0400 Subject: Robert A.M. Stephens - Railroad Redux [Non-Subscriber Post] You posted this a while back, and I can assure you, not one of the railroad books listed was ever published, although some of the titles and authors are real books! Get back to me if you wish to be informed further, but a simple way to research books is to go to www.abebooks.com and do title or author searches. Jeff Saxton (self-appointed debunker of Robert A.M. Stephens railroad research falsities) Your original posting at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/feb/m13-029.shtml From: Robert A.M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:04:41 -0700 Subject: Miami 'Circle' is Railroad Turntable To all, In 1911 The Narrow Gauge Railway Co. operated by Teddy Collins and Sons, known as the Narrow Gauge Starfire Co., originally from the Oak Hill area of Pennsylvania, was contracted in May of 1910 by the operations board for the then fledging Florida East Coast Railway and Navigation Co. to begin dredging in the Miami byway area for an intended spur link from thier interchange 'Y' at mile post 289. In so doing, since the Florida East Coast Railway was standard gauge (4' 8 1/2" as per modern AAR standards) the large road engines and the lighter switchers, were much too heavy to operate on the required light rails (30 lbs. per yard) that construction trains running on the sand based ground in an around the area were using, resorted to contracting a narrow gauge railroad builder and operator to perform the works. Teddy Collins was the outfit. The man himself was a lumberman who fell back on railway construction work to offset the downturn in lumbering that was vexing the nation in the 1906-13 time frame. He got the contract to construct the following: 1. A 6 mile long elevated standard gauge RR bed from the FECRwy. junction in western Miami, then curve through downtown Miami proper, crossing the waterway-mud area in question, then terminating with a branch that would come to the ocean side stead. 2. A twin turntable pier structure for a low slung Howe-Truss center span bridge. (the 'Circle' in question). 3. Laid course to be with 100 per yard rail. In 1913 Collins finished construction but the excavation of the waterway nearly broke him. The remnants of native American artifacts in the area is a result of the deep muck removal of material on the site in the attempt to form a more stable road bed. The attempt in this area failed. The FECRwy. abandoned the 6 mile spur in favor of Teamsters moving freight from the FECRwy. railhead to downtown locations. The circle in question was the standard design base at the time of building a Howe-Truss, center bearing bridge traverse. Thought I would let you know. References: 'The Railroad in the Sun'. The FECRwy.Co.' Howell North Books, 1962 John T. Labbe 'Lumbering and Logging in Pennsylvania' Veron Goe and John Kasler 1970-(out of print--collectors edition) 'The Locomotives that Baldwin built' Coronado Press, 1969 Elgin Meeks 'Rails Through Dixie' Peach Tree Press, 1975 John Vilden and Ennice Kregg 'The Climax Locomotive. A Geared Wonder' Narrow Gauge Pictorial Dann James Historical Publishers, 1980 (Pg. 133. Pict. of locomotive used in the dredging work. Locomotive CN # 190,. Climax Locomotive Works, Corry Penny.) 'Mikado: The Locomotives of Florida' (a trieste to the 2-8-2 Wheel Arrangement For Fast Freight on Light Ground.' Locomotive Historical Quarterly. DoT Document number 388.55.A (1989) And lastly, there are far more compelling 'circles' of note that are real, not railroad excavations, at the sound end of the Kennedy Space Center along the Banana River. Wonder why no one is talking about that. Perhaps a little too close to 'Space' based subject matter? -- sincerely, Robert A.M. Stephens NASA Documentation Program
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 1 UFOINFO Is Moving From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@ukgateway.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:47:50 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 12:07:39 -0400 Subject: UFOINFO Is Moving The UFOINFO site is moving to a new hosting company - the record with Network Solutions was finally updated today after several weeks of requests! While the address will remain the same it is possible that it will not be work while the new server address is distributed throughout the Internet. If this is the case visitors to the site should use the ** temporary ** address of: http://216.71.21.191 Thanks in advance, John Hayes ufoinfo@ukgateway.net webmaster@ufoinfo.com UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com Archives for UFO Roundup/Filer's Files/UK UFO Network Bulletin/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 [lunascan] Heads Up - Incoming From: tedwards@tcia.net (Tim Edwards) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 03:37:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 07:13:30 -0400 Subject: [lunascan] Heads Up - Incoming Heads Up Everyone!!! There has been a massive sighting, made by multiple individuals, of 7 or 8 Unidentified Flying Objects in the Western US. More specifically, Washington, Oregon, California, and Nevada. This report was announced by Art Bell on "Coast to Coast" around 9:30 pm pacific time (1:30 am eastern). He received multiple faxes and e-mails about the event. He had Peter Gersten on and interrupted the second hour of the show to bring on Peter Davenport of the UFO Reporting Center. Davenport had several "Live" excerpts from callers who reported this sighting. Below are several eyewitness descriptions of this anomaly (anomalies). 7 or 8 "flaming" UFOs heading "in formation" from Northwest to Southeast at a low altitude and at a surprisingly low speed. It took the objects 1 1/2 to 2 minutes for the objects to traverse from horizon to horizon. 8 UFOs "with flaming tails" traveling "in formation" from west to east. 1 1/2 minutes to cross the sky. 7 or 8 "flaming" objects "in a straight line" traveling in formation" from Northwest to Southeast, 1 broke formation then 1 joined formation. Single red light traveling steadily across the sky, broke into 4 or 5 pieces. Military jets flying in Afterburn over the same area several minutes after sighting. At approx. 9:30 pm pacific time, parts of the western United States suffered a widespread power blackout. Art Bell is currently broadcasting via a propane powered generator. Don't miss this one! Art Bell http://www.artbell.com National UFO Reporting Center http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/ Tim Edwards
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:34:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 07:17:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:33:40 -0500 >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Those of us who have had enough close encounters to last a >lifetime have moved on to the next level of awareness and now >seek to adapt our paradigms to a much larger reality we have >only just begun to glimpse. Damn! Great jealousy here. I've been trolling around the UFO field now for nigh on thirty years. I'm also a keen amateur astronomer with thousands of hours in general skywatching and behind a scope. In all those years, I've never seen a darn thing I couldn't explain conventionally. Maybe I'm just not able to move to "the next level of awareness." Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:52:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 07:21:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... Dow's up 70+ points at noon. Go AAPL! Oops, wrong thread! Seriously, anyone interested in really doing the numbers ought to get them one of them new Apple G-4s. They're capable of doing a giglaflop (or whatever) of instructions a second. A billion, in other words. Would make a nice desktop SETI At Home machine for those moments when you're otherwise just wasting precious electricity, melting glaciers, and heating up the whole damn planet so not even aliens will want to live here anymore! The wife just ordered a new iBook and Air Station. Can hardly wait. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:11:24 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 07:30:16 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: James Bond JohnsonJBONJO@aol.com >Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:21:54 EDT >Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:48:39 -0400 >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >>Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:31:04 EDT >>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>To: updates@globalserve.net <....> >>I also think there is a possible scenario of a military PIO >>initially taking a photo of Marcel with "real debris" for >>historical purposes. >This would have had to take place after I took my pictures and >left General Ramey's office since I alone "posed" the debris in >the way it is displayed in all the known Ramey office photos, I'm not talking about the known photos. I'm talking about possible unknown photos never released of other debris. If true, this clearly would have taken place before the other photos were taken, as per Marcel's testimony. >including Newton's. And when I was there no one from the PIO >office had been brought into the loop as yet. How could you possibly know that? How do you know what may have happened before or after you got there, or what was going in rooms other than Ramey's office? >They may already have gone home for the day and had to be recalled >after I had gone. Well, according to the account you are now trying to sell, you got there at around 4:00, and Marcel obviously had to get there before you. Did the PIO's at Fort Worth go home before 4:00? >Remember, this was NEVER a "press conference", Again, how do you know for sure what may have happened after you left? Here's some evidence that there may have been a small, possibly impromptu press conference later on: 1. Testimony of Marcel, Dubose, and Newton 2. Newton's photo was taken after you left. An Eastern paper published it the following morning (Philadelphia Inquirer), meaning it got out very quickly to meet evening publishing deadlines. All newsphoto attributions of the Newton photo that I've been able to find are of civilian wirephoto agencies such as NEA. There is no AAF attribution, as you yourself in e-mail indicated their likely would be if some PIO took the photo. Further, you agreed (I think) that these facts might indicate another civilian photographer on the scene. 3. The Dallas Morning News said they received an AP dispatch from Fort Worth. Furthermore, Newton was quoted in AP stories the next day. Over in New Mexico, the AP dispatched two people from the Albuquerque office to Roswell to directly cover the story (one may actually have come from El Paso). And in your neck of the woods, you remember two AP wirephoto technicians being sent over from the Dallas office to rush out the photos, according to your memories. This was an unprecedented event in your experience at the Star-Telegram, which should indicate to you how much importance the AP attached to this story. So we have high priority on the story, the AP willing to dispatch people long distances into the field to cover the story (not done by telephone as you claim it was always done), Newton being quoted in AP stories the next day, and an AP dispatch noted as coming from Fort Worth. Do you think these all might point to the AP deciding to send yet another person directly to FW AAF to directly cover the story, just like they did over in New Mexico? It seems very probable to me anyway. Again, just because you weren't there, doesn't mean it didn't happen. >only one >reporter/photographer who pushed his way into the general's >office before he arrived on the scene. We now know exactly why >this happened and this will be revealed soon. This is interesting if true. But aren't you also now saying some other reporter got there before you? Before you were absolutely denying this possibility. Perhaps you are also equally wrong about what happened after you left. It's interesting that this also partially corroborates one of Marcel's memories of being accosted by reporters (in plural) as soon as he got to Fort Worth, but he couldn't say anything until he had seen the big General. >>This could conceivably account for the >>Bill Moore version of Marcel's story, where he has Marcel >>claiming to have had a single photo taken of him with the real >>stuff before it was cleared out and replaced with a weather >>balloon for subsequent photos. >It is helpful to read what Moore wrote. He and Stanton Friedman >interviewed Marcel three times in 1979 -- 32 years after the >Roswell Event -- and which is reported in the Berlitz-Moore book >on pages 72-75. Key points include: Hopefully Stanton Friedman will join this discussion and comment on the quotes. [Stan is "travelling" from Sept. 3-14 - it may be a while --ebk] >"it certainly wasn't anything built by us and it most certainly >wasn't any weather balloon... <...> Yes, Marcel described strange stuff, as did others. But this doesn't mean you necessarily photographed it. >"...that next afternoon (July 8, 1947)) we loaded everything >into a B-29 on orders from Colonel Blanchard and flew it all to >Fort Worth... Just after we got to Carswell, Fort Worth, we were >told to bring some of the stuff up to the general's >office---that he wanted to take a look at it. We did this and >spread it out on the floor on some brown paper. I included this quote in my e-mail to you the other day, and noted that Marcel's story directly contradicted yours, in which you recently added to your account that you personally unwrapped the packages before ANYBODY at Fort Worth had seen what was inside. This is an entertaining tale, but hardly probable military procedure. By all accounts, high security was in place, and no civilian would have been granted access until a determination had been made. Marcel's account is totally believable on this point; yours isn't. >What we had was >only a very small portion of the debris--there was a whole lot >more... General Ramey allowed some members of the press in to >take a picture of this stuff. They took one picture of me on the >floor holding up some of the less interesting metallic debris. >The press was allowed to photograph this, but were not allowed >far enough into the room to touch it. "Not allowed to touch it," again directly contradicting you. >The stuff in that one >photo was pieces of the actual stuff we had found. It was not a >staged photo. ^^^^^^^^ The controversial quote attributed to Marcel by Bill Moore. Notice also Marcel's use of the word "staged" here, as this comes up again. Marcel is clearly talking about the other photos being substitute cover story debris, or the whole thing being a set-up for consumption of the press, or "staged." >Later they cleared out our wreckage and >substituted some of their own... I was not in these. I believe >these were taken with the general and one of his aides." It's obvious that the debris in the known Marcel photos is the same as in the Ramey/Dubose photos, and also the Newton photo. So we have Marcel saying (at least as quoted by the controversial Bill Moore) that he was photographed with the real stuff, but it was later replaced with other material for the other photos. That's why I have conjectured (which is all it is at this point) that maybe a military PIO took a photo of Marcel with the "real stuff" for historical records, and this have never been released. That would resolve the major discrepancy in the testimony. >Obviously Marcel was not shown the photos at this point and >would have been relying on his 32-year-old memory. It is unclear >whether Marcel owned any copies of the photos or had even seen >them during the interim. I can state from my experience that it >is nearly impossible to recall all details with any certainty >after such a long time. Fair enough. But you have been making many comments here in which you have been stating with certainty that something did or did not happen based on nothing more than your own obviously shaky memories. >What is helpful is to realize that >Marcel was relying on hearsay as to any "switch" of the debris, >since he states that this happened AFTER he left General Ramey's >office. Well according to you, you took Ramey's photos first, then Ramey/Dubose, and Marcel last. Further you now claim that you are quite clear in your memory that this is what happened. Therefore, according to your own reconstruction, Marcel obviously had NOT left Gen. Ramey's office before the Dubose/Ramey photos, which hardly makes his statements "hearsay." It's interesting how Marcel's testimony constitutes hearsay in your mind, whereas all your unsupported suppositions about what happened before and after you were there are not hearsay. I also notice you leaving out the part of Marcel's testimony where he states that he was present later when reporters were shooting questions at him, but Ramey hadn't allowed him to say anything. There was also Newton's statements about Marcel being present when he was there, which again places Marcel in Ramey's office with the debris AFTER you left. Obviously, if true, Marcel could again have seen for himself whether the debris had been substituted or not, hardly "hearsay." Incidentally, Marcel certainly did see the photos later on and again commented that they were "staged," which in the context in which he said it clearly meant "phony." (See also quote by Marcel above in which he uses "staged" in the same way.) Dubose likewise said he never saw the real debris and that what was the photos was a cover story weather balloon brought in to get the press off their backs. In your mind, however, it seems that "staged" means you posed everybody for pictures. This contortion of logic indicates very strongly to me the lengths you go to in your own mind to ignore the evidence that disagrees with your desired beliefs of what happened. It seems this is all geared to you being the "Roswell debris photographer," rather than the "Fort Worth debris photographer." The two are not necessarily the same. Also, as you seem not to realize, Marcel did not immediately return to Roswell after having his picture taken. He was kept at Fort Worth another day, and returned the following night, according to two crew members on that flight (one with a surviving flight log confirming the date and time of the flight). The first leg of that flight from Roswell to FW carried a mysterious large crate in the bomb bay surrounded by armed MP's and was greeted by military brass and a mortician (whom one of the crew members knew well) when it arrived in Fort Worth. When the crew was debriefed, they were told they were transporting the General's furniture. >RPIT is trying very diligently to finally resolve some >of these discrepancies in the record and would welcome any >assistance from ufologists. I'm sorry to say that my current experience with you Bond is that you almost always ignore the evidence that directly contradicts the story you want to believe, with you at the center of the action. To cite but one more example, you changed your original story about Ramey describing a weather balloon to you, and now claim Ramey had no idea what he was dealing with. I've sent you all sorts of news articles which indicate that Ramey was beginning to put out a weather balloon story before you ever got there. Even your own newspaper disagreed with you in three separate editions (which you kindly sent me). Read your own newspaper! So far you have either pretended this contradictory evidence didn't exist, or dismissed its implications in your mind with some more contorted logic. Rather than trying to resolve discrepancies in the record, you seem hell bent in creating them, just so you can be known as the "Roswell photographer."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Orbs, Dupes and Denial at American Computer From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:21:06 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 08:37:10 -0400 Subject: Orbs, Dupes and Denial at American Computer [Non-Subscriber Post] Errol, I can't seem to figure out how to mail to the discussion group at UFOmind. Could you help. I'd like to send the following re: the TR3-d. Thanks, Ed Gehrman [This list has experience of ACC and its owner and as a rule neither are referenced on UFO UpDates. However, the following post is sent your way for the remaining content. --ebk Orbs, Dupes and Denial at American Computer By Ed Gehrman Paul Bennewitz was an Albuquerque businessman, trained as a physicist, who in the late 1970's and early 80's became convinced that aliens were flying around the Manzano Nuclear Weapons Storage Facility, located near his house, and also sending out electronic signals. Bennewitz observed and photographed the alien craft from his deck and recorded the electronic signals. He reported his finding to the Tucson-based Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO), but they didn't understand the significance of his research. Frustrated, Bennewitz contacted Air Force Office of Special Investigations on October 24, 1980. It was after this contact that his troubles began. The AFOSI decided to play him along and feed him false information that would eventually lead to Bennewitz's mental breakdown. The AFOSI were assisted in this devious plan by William Moore, a respected and well known UFO researcher. This is a glaring example of how agents of our government interfere with serious UFO researchers. It's a form of disinformation still commonly used. By making researchers seem unhinged, there's no need to refute their work or discoveries. Jack Shulman is also an alleged physicist. He says he has worked on numerous government contracts as an independent contractor and as an employee of IBM and other high tech businesses. He is now the CEO of American Computer Company, a company that manufactures and sells computers and other related equipment. Several years ago, sometime before June of 1997, Shulman says was given access to a set of notebooks and other written material said to be the work of a technician who had assisted in the development of the transistor at Bell Labs in 1947. Shulman was allowed to read these notebooks and in the process became convinced that the real history of the transistor's discovery had been tampered with in a big way, that the invention was not the legitimate property of Bell Labs, and that the ideas had been back engineered from debris given to the labs by US Army contacts. Shulman couldn't decide from the notebooks where the debris had originated but he felt that it was either from a very advanced culture, perhaps alien, or from work done by the German scientists before the war's end. Shulman admits he had little previous knowledge of or information about the study of UFO and its history. He says he decided, as a lark, to publish some of his findings on the ACC web site. He admits he was not prepared for the stir these first press releases generated but he continued, in spite of a break-in at his offices and other threats and intimidating email. Since that first tentative announcement, ACC has become the talk of the UFO community but Shulman's rudeness and conspicuous naivete continue to frustrate just about everyone visiting ACC's web site and forum. Much of the wisdom and intelligence that Shulman might have contributed has been lost or is being ignored. ACC has a large cache of valid UFO information to offer UFO researchers but it is buried in a pile of misinformation, disinformation and just plain stupidity, generated in part by ACC employees or "Avatars" as they affectionately call themselves and likely by the very same consultants who were responsible for Shulman seeing the notebooks in the first place. Shulman says that he, along with some friends, did their own back engineering project from drawings and diagrams found in the notebooks and have been able to construct a device, the Transcapacitor (Tcap), which, they imply, will reconfiguring our modern lives. But like Bennewitz, Shulman is a dupe, a victim of his own arrogance and his ignorance of history. Why would Shulman be given the information in the shopkeeper's notebook? I have no answer to that question. It's hard to figure; perhaps it never happened or if it did, maybe William Corso's, The Day After Roswell, needed a neutralizer or diversion. Whatever the reason, someone has caused serious disinformation to be disseminated from this site. Several months ago Shulman began posting information on the ACC science forum about "the Orbs" that he and Bryan Williams have been photographing in rural New Jersey. Shulman seems quite convinced that the "ORBS" are a real phenomenon that can be studied scientifically, but what these strange images could be is anybody's guess. Some folks who have examined the phenomenon think ACC has been photographing dust and spider webs. "Here are some of the 700 pictures that I have taken since the first physical contact with the Endorians. I have visited the sight at least four nights a week and have come back with evidence every time. If the information keeps to its accuracy level, then another meeting will happen very soon. As an experiment I have taken certain friends to the vortex to see if they could also photograph the beings and phenomenon, using all kinds of different cameras; all twenty six people have come back with something strange on their film". Bryan Williams Vortices are important to understanding the UFO phenomenon,("The vortex as a structure lies at the very core of existence, as in the atom and apparently beyond, down to the behavior of quanta." Ivan Sanderson) but by calling their "portal" a vortex, Williams and Shulman are clearly creating a misunderstanding of major proportions. The word vortex or vortice can mean one of two things: flow involving rotation around and axis or a condition of drawing everything to a center point.... Even though Jack Shulman says he is a brilliant physicist, he was still drawn into the vortex of UFO speculation. Shulman wrote: "The Sikh of India/Pakistan/Singapore have been recording the Orbs for nearly 5,000 years. The Orbs are a central part of their unique religion. I have been working with one of the High Religious Leadership of the Sikh, who had been guiding me to this eventual discovery for about a year or three....All in all, there are 22 Portals." I read this and it jogged my memory. I remembered that I had seen vortices and ancient Indian teachings and writings connected together by someone else. I then checked my library of UFO books and material and found the book I was looking for. It was Invisible Residents by Ivan Sanderson. His Appendix showed two articles, one on vortices by Theodore Schwenk and the other a short essay on the ancient Indian Vimanas. Invisible Residents has some excellent UFO research. The following sums up Sanderson's position: "I contend that if we will only stick to being logical, and within the accepted frame of logic to boot, there is no reason (a) why there could not be an extremely advanced civilization under water; (b) why it might not be twice as old as ours; (c) why it should not have developed what we call space flight; (d) why it should not be so far advanced of us technically that we would never have even noticed it until we started to develop a few really sensitive gadgets." He cites example after example of why he believes this to be true and in so doing examines a broad spectrum of history, anthropology, science, biology, and both modern and ancient literature. But his most ingenious connection is the one he draws between vortices, Indian space travel, and the function of mercury. First he defines the vortex: "Whenever any qualitative differences in a flowing medium come together, these isolated formations (vortices) occur. Such differences may be: slow and fast; solid and liquid; liquid and gaseous...warm and and cold; denser and more tenuous; heavy and light ( for instance, salt water and fresh); viscous and fluid; alkaline and acid...At the surfaces of contact there is a tendency for one layer to role in upon the other. In short, wherever the finest differentiations are present the vortex act as a delicate �sense organ' which as it were perceives the differentiations and then in a rhythmical process causes them to even out and to merge." Theodore Schwenk, Sensitive Chaos Next he tells about his research into ancient writings and why these writings sometimes hold excellent scientific information that is also historically important. One such assortment of writings is the Daiva, translated by Dr. Ranjee Shahani. There are many fascinating stories and poems in this five thousand year old collection but one of the most intriguing is a description of a flying machine: "Strong and durable must the body be made, like a great flying bird, of light material. Inside it one must place the mercury-engine with its iron heating apparatus beneath. By means of the power latent in the mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion, a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in the sky in a most marvelous manner." One might rationalize this statement as being nothing but ancient ramblings if it weren't for two other significant facts. First, two well respected scientists and teachers, Gerald Schubert and J.A. Whitehead, discovered that when mercury in a circular dish is subjected to a slowly rotating heat source, the mercury begins to rotate as a vortex in the opposite direction of the heat and often dramatically exceeds the speed of the heat source. The second is that the ancient Roman God called Mercury is depicted with wings on both his helmet and his heels. His helmet is also shaped like a UFO. Now why should Mercury, of all the gods, be the one who flies, and why is Mercury's helmet a representational UFO? I'm not trying to "pick on" or hassle, or necessarily annoy American Computer or Jack Shulman but the misinformation about vortices and "orbs" needs to be corrected. Jack and ACC could have made an important contribution to the UFO community if they'd only released the contents or portions of the Shopkeeper's Notebook. Then we might all have had another piece to this complex puzzle rather than silly disinformation concerning what could turn out to be important scientific
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 'Strange Days... Indeed' - New Slot, More Time From: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 12:03:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 12:03:14 -0400 Subject: 'Strange Days... Indeed' - New Slot, More Time 'Strange Days... Indeed', the UFO program hosted by myself & Jonn Kares, broadcast by CFRB 1010 in Toronto and carried 'live' on the Web via Internet Explorer and MediaPlayer [www.cfrb.com/], now has a new time slot. The program now starts at 9:00 Eastern Sunday nights and runs, with an added hour, until 11:00. SDI's producers - WTFIT Productions - thank listeners, guests, CFRB's Steve Kowch and Jean Marie Heimrath of Sound Source for their participation and support.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:11:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:11:17 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:57:53 -0700 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >Dear All, >In my response to Dennis I made reference to examples of >anomalies within the debris itself which force me to question >the explanation of the debris given by the USAF in their various >reports. I attach and again beg Errol's indulgance in forwarding >a composit image showing the items I mentioned. Hi Neil, hi All, I'd just like to mention Bruce Maccabee's "The Real X-Files" for those wishing to see FBI (and many other) UFO related gubbamint documents. It is a most compelling collection and well written. Excuse me if someone has already mentioned this, I haven't had an op to read all the posts connected to this thread. Contact Bruce and get your own copy of "The Real X-Files" Everyone should have a copy in their library. Especially anyone whose interest is in existing/recovered documentation. Peace, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Experience Gap [was Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 13:57:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:16:03 -0400 Subject: Experience Gap [was Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:33:40 -0500 >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> <snip> >Once you have seen a genuine UFO close enough to _know_ it is a >UFO, whatever origins it may have, you never need to spend time >debating whether or not UFOs exist or whether or not one >sighting is more genuine than the next. This is what we can refer to as the Experience Gap. Obviously, if I were to have an abduction experience it would radically alter my world view. The "rub" with experience is that the human consciousness having the experience isn't necessarily an objective or absolutely reliable observer. There are also issues of interpretation and reaction, as in what one does about the experience. A few years back I spoke at John White's UFO Conference in New England. After my talk I was verbally assaulted by a member of the audience who followed me outside because I had dared to question some aspect of Roswell. After he calmed down his brother apologized and explained why the other man was such a believer. Several years prior, both brothers had had a really good (and reasonably upclose) daytime UFO sighting. For the brother doing the apologizing, it was an extraordinary and unforgettable event. For want of a better phrase, however, he had learned to live with it and had gotten on with his life. But the believer brother was still grabbing people by the lapels and telling them they _had_ to believe, too, because he'd seen one. Same UFO experience, but two dramatically different reactions to it. The abduction experience would obviously be even more problematic, given the intimate nature of the circumstances, which are often bookended by Bullard's "doorway amnesia." Humans like answers inherently, so it would be extremely difficult for anyone to resist interpretation of a personal experience -- even if that might be the best approach to an experience often described, at least in part, as being somehow like a dream or partially unreal. The abduction experience may be what it appears to be -- or it may not be. The mind is a funny thing, and by that I don't mean to suggest that the abduction experience is wholly imaginary, only that we need to keep in mind the nature of the recording (and experiencing) instrument. There are people who claim to have encountered the Virgin Mary, for instance, and I don't completely know what to make of that, either. The astronomer George Ellery Hale had regular encounters with an elf that transpired over several decades. Would someone else in the same room with him have experienced the same elf? I haven't a clue. My guess would be no, but I don't know. Are humans somehow hardwired to experience encounters with entities, mysteriously embodied others? It seems one could certainly make that argument. Are abductions fundamentally different, or are there "degrees" of abduction, so to speak? That is, a small percentage of abductions represent the presumably real thing, and the greater percentage something else? If so, what is that greater something else, and who is sensitive, or susceptible to it, and why? David Hufford has reported that something like 15% of any given population has had the Old Hag experience. Is it in the genes, then, so to speak? Or are there only so many Old Hags to go around? Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:50:11 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:25:27 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:53:35 EDT >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> >>Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:03:46 EDT >>Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:56:31 -0400 >>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>According to the testimonies of General DuBose, Major marcel >>and flight engineer Robert Porter, there were two separate >>flights bringing debris to Fort Worth that day: >>- The one described by Porter (and Marcel himself), with >>Marcel and other officers, carrying small, very light, well >>wrapped boxes ; >>- The one described by DuBose, bringing the balloon debris in >>a large unsealed canvas pouch. DuBose was there, he did not >>see Marcel in that plane, he carried himself the bag to >>Ramey's office and had it displayed on the floor. He stated >>very clearly that he never saw the real debris! >Dubose described an earlier flight than Marcel's, which he >remembered as being several days before, not the same day. This >is when Roswell base informed him of the crash and apparently >having some material. When he relayed this up to acting SAC >Chief, Gen. McMullen, he was ordered to have the material >shipped immediately to Washington by "colonel courier." The >flight arrived at night in FW, where Dubose met it. The >material was transferred to Col. Clarke, the FW deputy base >commander, and flown on another plane to Washington. The bag >was sealed and attached to the wrists of the couriers, so Dubose >certainly never saw the "real debris" here. I am well aware of the Sunday 6 flight in the evening, but I am was talking about another flight which took place on Tuesday 8. This flight clearly mentioned by General DuBose in a long interview with Jaime Shandera, published in the MUFON UFO Journal on January 1991. DuBose said that he was alone to meet the plane, a B-29, and Marcel was not there. Let's quote the exact text of two parts of the interview: (page 14) Question: Now as to this Roswell business - let's begin when Jesse Marcel came over from Roswell with this material. DuBose's Answer of: Yes. Well, as best I can recall, I met the airplane that came in from Roswell and I took a canvas mail pouch with this debris in it over to General Ramey's office" Q.: What type of plane was it ? A.: A B-29 Q.: Did you see additional debris on the plane ? A.: No, I was just handed this canvas mail pouch with the stuff in it, and I headed straight to Roger's office. Now another key passage of that interview: (page 15) Q.: Now was Marcel with you at that point ? A.: No, he wasn't. NObody was. I had met the airplane. Q.: So Marcel didn't come with that bundle ? A.: Not at that time. If he was there, I was anaware of it - perhaps he was not on that plane. (Note: The suggestion that there was more than one plane from Roswell is consistent with statements made by other witneses.) I took this pouch to Ramey's office. In it was a bunch of trash. We unbuckled it and laid it out on the floor. It was cold potatoes as far as I was concerned." This is the flight was mentioning, and I think that it is key of the whole story. It seems clear to me that, yes there were two different flights that day (at least): the flight with Marcel and other officers, as described by Marcel and Porter, with small packages, this flight met by DuBose alone, wiht a pouch of balloon debris which he carried to Ramey's office. This explains why DuBose insisted so much that de debris had not been switched, and that he had never seen the real debris. I am afraid that a confusion has been made between this flight and the one of Sunday, where a sealed pouch was receptioned by DuBose and sent directly to Washington without opening it. That is the flight you described in your post. One cause of this confusion may be that DuBose mentions only the first one in his affidavit. BTW, I think you made a very good remark: if the debris sent on Sunday with the first flight was from of a balloon, people in Washington had plenty of time, on Monday, to discover that, and stop the mess at once. But if it was real debris, that's another story!! Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Projects Sign & Bluebook: Research Update From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 21:58:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:27:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Projects Sign & Bluebook: Research Update >From: Wendy Connors <ProjectSign@email.msn.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Projects Sign & Bluebook: Research Update >Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:11:17 -0600 >The official history of Operation Paperclip (aka Project >Paperclip), formerly known as Operation Overcast before it was >compromised, has been obtained by Wendy Connors and Michael >Hall. <snip> Congratulations are your good research and efforts Wendy and Michael Georgina Bruni
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:01:38 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:27:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:33:40 -0500 >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >I always wonder what people hope to accomplish by spending more >time discussing something they cannot prove or disprove when >they might learn more by getting out and having their own "close >encounter" Can you tell me exactly how I can do this? -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 What's New at Magonia 1.9.99 From: Mark Pilkington <m.pilkington@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 22:05:29 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:29:23 -0400 Subject: What's New at Magonia 1.9.99 http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/newmag.htm 01/09/99 The Mystic and the Spy: Two early British UFO Writers Philip Taylor Saucers & Science: Where did it all go wrong? John Harney Magonia Monthly Supplement #18 Bruce Gentry, Serial Filler by Martin S. Kottmeyer; UFO film wins arts award; British SF film book reviewed; Gareth Medway writes Pilkington was a safe pair of hands Nick Pope, Operation Thunder Child
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Robert AM Stephens & Railroads From: Jeff Saxton <JBSaxton@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:52:29 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 18:22:20 -0400 Subject: Robert AM Stephens & Railroads [Non Subscriber Post] Since you were so good to post my missive on Robert AM Stephens and his railroad research hoaxes, here is the documentation I hinted at, for the list to study. I know Railroad research may not be _your_ bag, but it is mine (a 1400+ railroad book library and growing), so I have given enough links and information that any moderately skilled researcher can for themselves ascertain that what I say is true, and RAMS statements are false. Jeff Saxton As to Stephens story on the Miami "Circle" being the old site of a railroad turntable, he is lying. I can elucidate further. The book he attributes to John Labbe is a non-existant title, I _know_ John Labbe, he is a retired logger in Oregon. He did write three books, two with co-authors, one of which is the also mentioned Vernon Goe (deceased). The book that they wrote together is titled "Railroads in the Woods", and it is in reprint by Oso Publications (www.osorail.com). The other two books Labbe wrote involve Portland Oregon Trolleys ("Fares Please, those Portland Trolley Years"), and a logging railroad in Washington state (with Pete Replinger, who I also know, titled "Logging to the Salt Chuck" -- from NWSL publications -- www.nwsl.com). I seriously doubt John Labbe has ever even been to Florida! BTW, Howell-North was the real publisher of Labbe's original book, but they went belly up in the early 1980's, and the respective authors were been given back their copyrights, or they were sold by Howell-North to other publishers just before they closed. Don Heimburger of "Heimburger House Publishing" in Illinois bought about 30 titles from them, in fact. There are books on the Florida East Coast Railway, the best being "Speedway to Sunshine" by (I think, memory fails, since I don't own it yet) Seth Bramson. A second valid title is "Rails 'neath the Palms", by Robert W. Mann; which is a general overview of Florida's railroad development. More? The "Lumbering and Logging in Pennsylvania" listed is real, but jointly authored by Walter Casler, Thomas T. Taber III, and Benjamin F. G. Kline, Jr. Kline and Casler are deceased. Kline was curator of the Pennsylvania State Railroad Museum in Strasburg when he died several years back. The logging series alluded to is 13 soft bound books, with an index and addenda book sold separately; covering regions of Pennsylvania. This set is partially in reprint by the respective copyright holders (the three co-authors had a falling out after publication ceased on the series, and they were very hard to buy for a long time). The full title of the series was " The Railroad Era of Logging and Lumbering in Pennsylvania". BTW, Teddy Collins listed in the article was one of the richest timber barons in PA, and why would he futz with building a short section of feeder railroad in Florida? "The Locomotives that Baldwin Built" is real, but authored by Fred Westing. It is a history of the world's largest builder of steam locomotives, the Baldwin Locomotive Works, of Philadelphia, PA (they went defunct in the 1950's, they couldn't compete with GM's new-fangled diesels!). Stephens new email address, in fact, is Baldwin@bigsky.net. Neat wordplay, huh? "Rails through Dixie" is real, but authored by H. Reid and John Krause. Both are deceased. The book was a 1st edition hardcover, and a later, smaller revised softcover second edition. The 2nd is still available from Carstens Publications (no known net presence). The real book on the Climax locomotive (which was built in Corry, PA) is titled "Climax, an unusual Locomotive", by Walter Casler and Thomas T. Taber III (same Casler as above, he worked for Climax in the teens and 1920's). This book was published in 1960, and only 2000 copies were ever made. Mine is #494, in the first printing. This book goes for around $400 nowadays. This was published by the "Railroadians of America" in New Jersey. I know Casler hand-picked an author to revise and reprint the book before his death, the author chosen was Dennis Blake Thompson, the publisher will be the afroementioned Osorail. I could look up Climax construction number 190 in my copy, and see who really owned it? I will bet $100 it was not in Florida. Climax went out of business in 1929. After thinking on it, I seem to recall #190 was a special prototype locomotive first shipped to a Colorado railroad as a construction locomotive (Colorado & Northwestern, running west out of Boulder), then to Alaska for use on the White Pass & Yukon (running northerly to the Yukon Territory out of Skagway, Alaska), thence to Washington state where it ended its days on the White Star Logging company's railroad, near Maytown (which was near Aberdeen). "Mikado, the Locomotives of Florida" is 100% bogus. Mikado refers to a wheel arrangement of steam locomotives, namely, a 2-8-2 (two small non-powered wheels out front, eight main powered drive wheels, and two small un-powered wheels behind the firebox). The _real_ book on Mikado's is a small softcover titled "America's Workhorse Locomotive: the 2-8-2" by Robert A. LeMassena, it should still be in print. It is an overview study of the development of this particular type of locomotive. There you have it, 100% debunked. If you need more, I can get you scans of book covers, their ISBN's, and other such physical evidence? Go to www.abebooks.com and search for the listed titles as I have them above, you won't find them all, since they are out-of-print or hard-to-find; but you should hit on at least some of them. Jeff Saxton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 19 From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 23:00:25 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 19:05:50 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 19 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 4, Number 19 August 31, 1999 Editor: Joseph Trainor CROP CIRCLES APPEAR IN ALBERTA Canada's Alberta province was the site of two crop circle incidents last week. On Monday, August 23, 1999, Dr. James Butler, professor of conservation biology at the University of Alberta, discovered an array of crop circles on the university's farm just south of Edmonton (population 616,741). According to Gordon Kijek of the Alberta UFO Study Group, Dr. Butler found five crop circles "in mixed wheat" on the farm, including "one large 20-meter circle with four satellite circles in almost exact compass headings." The satellite circles "were of slightly different diameters but all just under seven meters across." Kijek reported that "the center circle is connected to the satellites by pathways approximately three meters wide, and the crop is laid down being turned toward the satellites. All five circles are laid in a clockwise direction." Dr. Butler reported that there were "no swollen nodes," broken stems or "lifted soil at the roots." However, the professor has not ruled out the possibility of a fraud by university students. On Friday, August 27, 1999, farmer Bill Swiderski of Ardmore, Alberta, northeast of Edmonton reported the discovery of crop circles in his hay field. Swiderski said he had found six circles in the field, "all about the same size, about four feet (1.3 meters) in diameter. Each circle is a 'fat ring' with a standing one-foot-wide centre. Three are grouped together in a semi-circle, equal distances apart. The other three are a distance away from these." Swiderski told Paul Anderson of Circles Phenomenon Research-Canada that he had found "the same (crop) circles in this spot for the past three years now." Anderson said the circles were "on hilly ground with sand deposits," adding that Swiderski "has not sprayed or fertilized the field recently." The Edmonton and Ardmore crop circles are, respectively, the fifth and the sixth formations in Canada this year. (Many thanks to Paul Anderson of Circles Phenomenon Research-Canada for these reports. Also, don't miss the great story about Paul and CPR-Canada in the August 19, 1999 issue of The Western Producer, Canada's leading agricultural magazine.) SOLITARY UFO SPOTTED EAST OF LIMA, PERU On Tuesday, June 29, 1999, Edgar Olmos Herrera accompanied several American and Peruvian friends on a camping trip to Peru's Marcahuasi plateau, in the foothills of the Andes. The party made camp about 8 kilometers (5 miles) southeast of Huingo, a village on the Rio Santa Eulalia about 70 kilometers (42 miles) east of Lima, the national capital. "It ws the coldest time in the Andes," Edgar reported. (Editor's Note: June is a winter month in Peru and the other countries of the southern hemisphere.) "But we had some red wine and a blazing bonfire to keep us warm." After the Americans went to sleep, Edgar and the Peruvians stayed up to skywatch. "We decided to watch for UFO activity. This place is known for it. There was a full moon, and the sky was brilliant with stars. Venus shone beautifully." "All of a sudden, this one star moved sideways to our right," he reported. "It moved very slow, but it did move. All of a sudden, it simply disappeared. One moment it was there, and the next it was gone. I'm telling you, we were watching this thing while we sat by the fire and drank. And then it just disappeared and never came back." (Muchas gracias a Edgar Olmos Herrera para esa historia.) (Editor's Comment: Just south of Huingo, and in the same area of the Marcahuasi as their campsite, are two clusters of millenia-old adobe pyramids, known as huacas in Peru. The pyramids belong to an unknown pre-Mochica civilization. Here we have another case of UFOs linked to ancient pyramids in Peru.) YELLOW UFO HOVERS OVER SUBURB OF BRASILIA On Tuesday, August 10, 1999, at 8 p.m., a circular yellow OVNI (Portuguese acronym for UFO--J.T.) appeared over Setor QNJ and Setor QNH in the city of Taguatinga in Brazil. Taguatinga is a suburb of Brasilia, the national capital, located in the Distrito Federal, just across Lago da Paranoa from Brasilia. (Editor's Comment: And your editor ought to know. I lived for a week in Taguatinga during my 1978 trip to Brazil. A truly lovely city--the Pearl of the Planalto.) "Residents recognized it as an OVNI overflying the city at an altitude of 20 meters," Julio Barone Neto reported. "The object also appeared to open and close. No details of its surface could be seen other than a bright yellow luminous glow." "As it turned, the witnesses realized that it was moving very rapidly and sending golden rays of light earthwards. A photo of the OVNI was taken by a photographer using low- resolution film for an exposure of 30 seconds." Colonel Mizael, a spokesman for CINDACTA (Brazil's NORAD--J.T.) reportedly told the media that the radar sets at Brasilia's international airport "had seen nothing out of the ordinary." (Muito obrigado ao Julio Barone Neto e Guillermo Alarcon por eso caso.) ECLIPSE WATCHERS SEE LUMINOUS PHENOMENA IN NORMANDY On Wednesday, August 11, 1999, sky watchers lined the beaches of Normandy, waiting to catch a glimpse of the last total eclipse of the Twentieth Century. But the gang in Fecamp got more than they bargained for. Fecamp is in the department Seine- Maritime about 192 kilometers (120 miles) northwest of Paris. Amateur astronomers and other skywatchers lined the limestone cliffs overlooking the Atlantic Ocean. As the eclipse approached totality, "a strange luminous phenomenon" was observed on the horizon. The observers were adamant that the mysterious floating lights "were not caused by helicopters or meteorological balloons sent aloft during the eclipse." (Merci beaucoup a Thierry Garnier et France OVNI pour ces nouvelles.) MYSTERY ANIMALS SHOW UP IN THE USA AND UK The USA reported yet another phantom panther case last week, this time in the Pacific Northwest. The city of Port Angeles, Washington state, USA (population 17,710) has had repeated sightings of a large feline variously described as a cougar or puma, a black panther or an African lioness. According to USA Today, "Olympic National Park officials issued a warning to campers with children that a cougar is prowling the Sol Duc campground. A big cat attacked a 65-pound dog and inflicted head injuries before the dog's owner could chase off the predator. It was the third cougar sighting in a week." Port Angeles is on the Olympic Peninsula approximately 84 miles (134 kilometers) northeast of Seattle via ferry. (See USA Today for August 30, 1999, page A-7. See also the Port Angeles, Wash. News for August 29, 1999.) In the UK, Cornish fishermen were astounded last week when they sighted a great white shark just offshore. "A rare great white shark--made infamous by (the movie) Jaws--was sighted by a group of fishermen off the Cornish coast near Padstow in southwest England." "The 16-foot-long shark came within six feet of the fishermen's boat and stuck its head out of the water before swimming off." "Said fisherman Phil Britts, 'I reckon it had been following us for a couple of miles. Suddenly, this huge shape broke the surface...and cruised past us within six feet of the stern. I was absolutely gobsmacked!'" Padstow is in Cornwall, UK about 55 miles (88 kilometers) west of Plymouth. (See the Minneapolis, Minn. Star-Tribune for August 26, 1999, "Great white shark spotted.") (Editor's Comment: If global warming is heating up the Gulf Stream, that might explain the presence of the great white shark off Padstow. However, a warmer Gulf Stream may not be such a good thing. Imagine the havoc if a Hurricane Dennis crossed the Atlantic and went ashore in the British Isles.) BLACK HELICOPTER SEEN IN ARCADIA, INDIANA On Friday, August 20, 1999, an Army veteran of the Gulf War spotted a solitary black helicopter flying swiftly at treetop height over Arcadia, Indiana (population 1,468), a small town about 31 miles (49 kilometers) north of Indianapolis. The witness told his neighbor, B.B., that he had seen "a black (AH-64) Apache with no markings flying low just above the treetops." The chopper made a beeline to the north, flying parallel to Indiana Highway 19. B.B. said the witness "thought it was going north towards Grissom Air Force Base." (Email Interview) A strange convoy was reported in western Ontario province, Canada, two weeks ago, according to Newswatch magazine. In his August 24 radio broadcast, editor David J. Smith said a large European cargo ship offloaded 30 Russian T-80 tanks in Sault Sainte Marie, Ont. (population 81,476), Canada's big port at the entrance to Lake Superior. The tanks were white in color with the black letters UN on the turret. Each tank was reportedly loaded onto a Canadian National flatcar. Smith said the train left the city in a northerly direction, heading up the Algoma Central tracks. Sault Sainte Marie, also known as "the Soo," is located 490 miles (780 kilometers) west of Ottawa, the national capital. According to Smith, when the train stopped in Wawa, Ont. (population 4,272), about 140 miles (224 kilometers) north of the Soo, some residents spoke to an officer of the Slovenian Army, who was dressed in camoflauge BDUs (battle-dress uniform--J.T.) and asked what the tanks were doing in Ontario. According to Smith, the English- speaking Slovenian officer said they "were on their way to White River for urban pacification exercises." (Editor's Comment: White River, Ont. is on Highway 17 about 200 miles, or 320 kilometers, northwest of the Soo. I've been there. The town is tiny, and it's most famous for its giant thermometer sign alongside the highway, which proclaims it "the coldest spot in Canada." In winter, the temperature has been known to fall to minus 72 degrees Fahrenheit. Certainly an odd place fpr "urban training exercises.") Y2K: BANKERS ASK CHURCHES TO FIGHT DOOMSAYERS "The nation's bankers are distributing a folksy sample sermon to help clergy debunk parishoners' fears of a year 2000 catastrophe." "'We wanted to reach out to the religious community,' said John Hall, a spokesman for the American Bankers Association, referring to the four-page homily that the group is distributing to bankers to share with local ministers, priests and rabbis." "The sermon seeks to counter predictions in some religious and survivalist literature of a New Year's Day collapse in the banking system." "'We want to go into the new millenium with hope, eagerness and faith in this new century of progress. We don't want to be crouched in our basements with candles, matches and guns,' the sermon says." "'There are, after all, two ways to cross the Red Sea. With Moses, who with God's help, led the children of Israel into a bright hopeful future. Or with Pharoah, who in trying to preserve the old, hurled his chariots, his officers and his army into the sea.'" "At a news conference, the ATM network executives advised consumers to treat the last weekend of the millenium as they would any long holiday weekend, withdrawing only the normal amount of cash from automated teller machines." "The network companies, which are members of the Electronic Funds Transfer Association, link banks and other financial institutions with hundreds of thousands of ATMs nationwide as well as point-of-sale machines used to pay for purchases in grocery stores and other retail locations." "'There's no need to bury cash in your backyard. There's no need to stuff $20 bills under your mattress,' said Philip Valvardi, president of Money Access Service, which operates the MAC network." "Dennis Lynch, president and chief executive officer of NYCE Corp. of New Jersey, said all the ATM network's computer systems have been fully tested and found 'ready and compatible...Consumers should have complete confidence that their services are going to work normally.'" (See the Wisconsin State Journal of Madison, Wis. for August 26, 1999, Business section, "Bankers distribute sermon to counter Y2K predictions.") (Editor's Comment: "A bright, hopeful future!?" Are we reading the same Bible? As I recall, Exodus tells how Moses led the Israelites into forty years of starvation and hardship in the Sinai desert. And now, for extra academic credit...what is Moses's real name? Answer: Napimosis, which is Egyptian for son of the Nile god. I mean, what else would you call a baby boy plucked out of the river?) from the UFO Files... 1899: WHERE IS DAVE MATHER? In January 1996, an elderly Mexican named Jorge Hernandez was on his deathbed and asked to speak to his Roman Catholic priest, Father Joel de Mola, in Nacozari de Garcia, Mexico. Jorge's deathbed confession was truly astounding. He claimed to have been present in September 1899 when American lawman Dave Mather vanished in northern Mexico. And he claimed that Mather had been abducted by aliens! Dave Mather had been a friend of Wyatt Earp and his brothers, Bat Masterson, Doc Holliday and Kate Elder during the late 1870s in Dodge City, then the wildest cowtown in Kansas. After the Earps moved to Arizona in 1880, Mather soon "got out of Dodge" and moved to Tucson, Arizona. In August 1899, ranchers in the Sierrita mountains, southwest of Tucson, began complaining about missing cattle. Mather put together a posse and set out to track down the rustlers. Included in the posse was 14-year-old Jorge Hernandez. Led by an Inde (true name of the Apache people--J.T.) tracker from the San Carlos reservation, the posse followed the trail into Mexico. About 50 miles (80 kilometers) southwest of Nogales, in Mexico's Sonora state, Jorge said, the posse spotted "a huge silver bowl in the sky." The UFO "flew ahead of the posse in spurts, staying about a half-mile ahead at all times." Reaching a range of low hills, Mather suggested that they split up and "try to find that damned airship again." Soon Jorge found himself riding down a lonely barranca. Suddenly, "a tiny man in silver-colored clothes confronted him with a hollow tube." Instantly Jorge's horse reared and let out a whinny of terror. The boy was thrown to the sandy ground. Yelling, he drew his .45 caliber Colt Single Action Army revolver from its holster and squeezed off a shot. Jorge kept firing as fast as he could thumb back the Colt's hammer. All six bullets went straight to their target. But "the little man flickered like a candle flame and disappeared." Scrambling to his feet, Jorge ran full-speed out of the barranca. The other members of the posse quickly gathered, and he blurted out his story. The gringos, Mather included, showed skepticism, but the Inde tracker's eyes showed belief. And something else, as well. Fear. Finally, Mather said he would go check out the barranca himself. He said he'd fire a shot if he ran into any trouble. Jorge and the rest of the posse waited. About an hour later, one man shouted and pointed. The "silver bowl rose 200 feet into the air and took off over the horizon, never to be seen again." When the posse entered the barranca, they found Mather's horse, highly agitated, but no sign of Dave. There was no evidence of any violence. Mather's Winchester was still snug in its leather boot. His canteen was half-full. There was no blood on the saddle or the bedroll. Their Inde guide backtracked the horse's hoofprints and found something very odd. The tracks coming into the gorge were slightly deeper than the ones made recently by the horse, as if Dave had suddenly dismounted. But there was no sign of Dave's footprints or any sign that his body had hit the ground. Without another word, the Inde tracker climbed onto his own horse and rode back to San Carlos. "What's wrong?" Jorge asked him. "Pueblo de cielo," the Inde muttered. (Spanish for sky people--J.T.) And he rode away without a backward glance. Jorge and the rest of the posse searched the area for days afterward. But they never did find Dave Mather. In an interview on Mexican television in 1996, Father de Mola said, "The old man was on his deathbed when he related it to me. He was convinced that the spaceship had been sent from heaven by God." Flash forward to 1999...somewhere in the far reaches of space, a silvery bowl-shaped UFO cleaves the ebony void. And in the cargo hold lies Dave Mather, frozen in carbonite, endlessly dreaming of Dodge... FUN UFO WEBSITES For more on the recent UFO sighting in Peru, check out http://www.flinet.com/~labyrintha/ marcahua.html Check out the Fecamp eclipse sighting at http://www.multimedia.com/cufohn/franceovni/ eclipse.html SPECIAL MESSAGE FROM JOHN HAYES UFO INFO webmaster John Hayes says, "The UFO INFO site will be moving again very soon. While the address will remain the same, it's possible that it will not work while the new server address is distributed throughout the Internet." "If this is the case, visitors to UFO INFO should use the temporary address of http://216.71.21.191." Well, that's it for this week. Join us next time for more UFO news from around the planet, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1999 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. =============================================== John Hayes ufoinfo@ukgateway.net webmaster@ufoinfo.com UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com Archives for UFO Roundup/Filer's Files/UK UFO Network Bulletin/ AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Project Pelican From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:45:21 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 19:13:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Pelican >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:20:16 +0000 >From: dave bowden <dave.bowden@cableinet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Project Pelican >Hi to bird lovers everywhere, >With all the Pelican prattle going on I thought you may like to >see these images. >Two attached JPGs. >Dave. >BTW Jim M, brilliant posting, pretty much hit the nail on the >head. I have never been abducted, (bad blood, too much alcohol) >but reading your mail made me appreciate what it must be like. Dear Errol, List, Dave, Phil, Mo, Larry and Curly... (this is friendly council, no last names required here!) After viewing the images attached to your post entitled "Project Pelican," I can better appreciate how Phil, Mo, Larry and Curly can mistake pelicans in flight for UFOs. I appologize from my bottom, for making fun. Had I only known. I'm so ashamed of myself. All I can say is, "Nyuk-nyuk" and "Duck-duck!" (Them pelicans can really unload!). Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Project Pelican From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:07:04 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 19:17:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Pelican >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:20:16 +0000 >From: dave bowden <dave.bowden@cableinet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Project Pelican Hello, all >Hi to bird lovers everywhere, > >With all the Pelican prattle going on I thought you may like to >see these images. >Two attached JPGs. >Dave. >BTW Jim M, brilliant posting, pretty much hit the nail on the >head. I have never been abducted, (bad blood, too much alcohol >but reading your mail made me appreciate what it must be like. This is the funnest posting on the pelican mess I've seen!! Like the good Doctor, I try to Take every thing in this controversy with a dose of Gri...er salt. This is great salt. Also, for those this is lost on, this reminds me of Mel Brooks: "Young Frankenstien... er, steen" you couldn't see the original Boris Karloff movie without sniggering about the Brooksian version. Thanks, Dave. GT McCoy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Daylight Flying Triangle Footage From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 01:21:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 19:20:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Daylight Flying Triangle Footage >From: Sue and John Strickland <strick@H2Net.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Daylight Flying Triangle Footage >Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:09:22 -0600 >Hi Amy, >Thanks for posting the photo. It's quite interesting. I'm >wondering what the 2 objects are that are to the upper right of >object your arrow points to? Hi Sue, The 2 dots to the upper right are probably just developing anomalies as they do not appear on the negative as does the unidentified object. BTW, I will send an 8X10 copy to John Valez when I remember to pick it up from the photo place (I have put that danged negative in, forgot it for several months, remembered, checked a second print for the object, put it back in for an enlargement, forgot it and remembered it again when the posts here jogged my memory). I figure I'll never really know what it was so it is just history as far as I'm concerned. ;> Amy Home Page: "http://members.tripod.com/TheVanguard"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Filer's Files #35 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:58:41 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 20:37:02 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #35 Filer's Files #35 -- 1999, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern September 2, 1999, Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 SIGNS AND WONDERS IN THE HEAVENS SIGNAL THE FATE OF NATIONS! FALUN GONG BELIEF IN UFOs AND ET CONCERNS CHINA: In recent months the Chinese Government has been arresting thousands of Chinese citizens including Communist Party members who follow the beliefs of the Falun Gong. The Falun Gong or the Falun Dafa claim membership of 100 million Chinese. They can often be seen conducting exercises in unison in thousands of places throughout China. Their excellent mental and physical health is seen as a threat to Communist rule. I requested information from the Falun Gong and about their beliefs in extraterrestrials and UFOs. Their August 27, 1999, answer follows: Dear George: Your message requires careful thinking before answering. Otherwise we may mislead you and result you lose the opportunity to really understand the Falun Dafa, which would be the worst we don't want to happen to you. As you may know, Falun Dafa is a mind-body-spirit cultivation system. It teaches people to follow the principle of Zhen-Shan-Ren (truth-compassion-forbearance) and improve ourselves in order to return to our true beings (true selves). Our humble understandings of the boundless Dafa (great law) tell us that, the structure of the universe is very complex. Many time-spaces (dimensions) exist. Many higher living beings (human beings call them "God," "Buddha" or "Tao") live in the higher dimensions. Also, some living beings at our human level stay in other planets and other dimensions. We have also learned that, the meaning of life to humans is not to be humans. It is to return to our true selves, because we are dropping down to this earth as we have committed in wrong deeds before. The divine beings (God, Buddha or Tao) are compassionate to us and give us this mazed time-space, in which we may be enlightened to the orthodox teachings and cultivated ourselves to return. Unfortunately, we often are so unenlightened that we always indulge ourselves in temporary happiness on the earth in our short life time, pursuing fame, money, "achievement" and other personal interests. Living beings in other planets also have the reason to their existence. But what they have done to the earth and humankind is against the law of the universe (Zhen-Shan-Ren). They will be responsible for all of the consequences of their actions. Everything happens with reason, (including WHY "excellent sightings increase worldwide in July and August"). We have to stop here, because our understanding is very very limited. All of the answers to your questions can be found in the book Zhuan Falun. Would you mind to take a look at our web site (www.falundafa) read online or download the book? With best wishes, info@falundafa.ca. Editors' Note: The Soviet Union was plagued by aggressive UFO activity prior to the collapse of Communism. NEW YORK PORT BYRON -- David Sheppard e-mail states, on August 1, 1999, I woke up about 3:15 AM to a bright light in the window. I looked out the window and saw a craft shaped like a boomerang, with red, and green lights all the way around it. The bright light was from the craft. It was not a plane because it was just hovering over the trees, and it made no noise. After a few minutes it just started moving. I am located 50 miles west of Syracuse. Thanks to David Sheppard. NORTH CAROLINA CHARLOTTE -- A 50 year old male resident who is handicapped and uses a motorized wheelchair on July 1, 1999, noticed his dog acting funny. The dog refused to come when called at about 9:00 PM. He sensed a presence behind him and turned his wheelchair around and observed a bright glowing blue-green object hovering silently just above the adjacent trees. The witness tried to move away, but the power in his wheelchair failed. He was immobilized in this manner for about 5 to 10 minutes while the object moved around above the trees. It finally left, shooting upwards and vanishing. The power then returned to his wheelchair and he went back inside (at a high rate of speed according to the witness)! He stated that he has always been skeptical about such matters, but no longer. ISUR/MUFON Investigator Terry Kimbrell is to conduct the investigation. Thanks to Tom Sheets, ISUR Board. SOUTH CAROLINA FLYING BOOMERANG HARTSVILLE - On May 8, 1999, my 16 year old niece and I witnessed the glide over of an unidentified boomerang-shaped object at 10:27 PM. We were stargazing, when my niece suddenly exclaimed WOW! When I looked up, I saw a 'darker than night' boomerang-shaped shadow glide silently by without making a sound. The outline was very distinct. The object had rounded edges with seven yellow-gold lights lining the front edge of the craft. Three lights were on each wing. The lights gave off no reflection on the object, just points of light as they might be recessed into the object. I lost sight after the object passed over the roof of the house. My niece who used to be a skeptic saw the object at 30 degrees above the horizon. She saw five patterns connected together in a V shape. They were a dull gray reflecting the city lights in the distance. The shapes of the patterns from the drawing she made were concave arcs on the front and convex arcs on the back. She did not see the seven lights, that is one reason I think they were recessed in the object and I saw them when it was directly overhead. The craft was 2 1/2" to 3" tip to tip at arm's length. She calculated the actual size as 500 to 600 feet. The estimated altitude was 2000 to 3000 feet. The angle of the boomerang was 120 degrees. Thanks to Terry Kimbrell (MUFON/ISUR) JJLJ45@prodigy.com MYSTERY BOOMS AND FLYING TRIANGLES IN GEORGIA TROUP COUNTY - Residents of Western Georgia were startled by loud booms and a ground tremor on August 2, 1999. Ufologist John Thompson investigated the events and interviewed a La Grange College student who said the Heard County 911 received their first loud booms reports BEFORE 10:00 PM. A few minutes later at 10:01 PM Troup County 911 received their first explosion reports from the Liberty Hill area. The reports show the boom either originated in Heard County or originated near there and moved southward. The Georgia Emergency Management Agency (GEMA) claims the college student saw a 'blue-white' light go streaking towards Alabama just before the 10:00 PM booms. John's interview with the student indicated she heard the booms first and then saw the blue white light. When an object breaks the sound barrier, the sonic boom it produces follows the object. John also contacted the National Earthquake Information Center who said there was no abnormal seismic activity in the area. Troup County Fire Chief said, "I don't know anything else it could be except a sonic boom." It's just consistent with a sonic boom." John continued his investigation and found a witness living about three miles west of Franklin. She said five minutes AFTER the dual boom, she and others were looking to the northeast and saw a trail of red, yellow and white fire going away and down. The story confirms the timing of a spectacular meteor well AFTER the booms indicating the meteor was a coincidence, and not the actual cause of the boom. Two witnesses in Franklin saw what looked 'like a firecracker at both ends' going off before 10:00 PM. She saw the northern end of the cylinder first flash red, yellow and blue. Then the southern end flashed. Two seconds later she heard 'boom, boom.' This suggests that the two explosions went off a half mile west of her house, near Highway 34. Her sister, standing behind the first witness saw a dark mass go down and then heard the boom, boom! The round black mass then went down fast and rose more slowly. On coming up, it now had a fuzzy red circle around the solid, smooth, black circle. The circle rose until it seemed to dissipate. The object was three times the size of a full moon. This may have been a rising fireball from a detonated explosion. Further investigation found Greg and his family who saw two 'V' or boomerang shaped UFOs. Between 10:00 and 10:15 PM the UFOs were seen flying in from the southwest as slow as 30 mph. Seven or eight huge blue white halogen-like lights illuminated their entire hilltop area and home for about four minutes. The UFO's made no sound and their wingspan was 160 feet. Suddenly, five twin-engine loud jets probably F-15s flew into view in pursuit of the two boomerang craft. The UFOs launched leaving a three foot long streak in the sky looking like shooting stars as they ascended almost instantly in opposite directions. The witnesses said, "The jets appeared to stand still in comparison to the speed of the UFOs." The UFOs departed on a heading of 220 degrees towards the panhandle of Florida. Shortly afterwards Blackhawk helicopters showed up operating in a search pattern. Numerous helicopters were also observed the next day. Satellite receivers were blown out by the jolt and electrical power was lost for several hours. GEMA spokesperson Pamela Swanson stated, "We were able to determine we had a meteor shower that evening. We're perfectly satisfied with that. Case Closed." Thanks to John C. Thompson former MUFON State Director. Editor's Note: The Georgia authorities refused to interview the UFOs witnesses since it is easier to believe a natural explanation despite eye witness accounts of UFOs. The fighters chasing the UFOs may have caused the sonic booms. KENNESAW � On August 30, 1999, a family witnessed a bright flashing light in the southwest sky behind their house at 10:30 PM. The light changed from red to white to green. It would stay in one place, then move down and around. Jan said, "We observed through binoculars and the light was in constant motion." My husband got out the video camera and taped for a while until it was obstructed from view by some pine trees. It was the size of a star, but it did not "act" like any star we have ever seen. This was witnessed by my husband, daughter and myself. We watched it for an hour. Thanks to Jan, Sm. & Rebecca Bruner, Yallnomejr and John Schuessller NORTHERN NEW MEXICO OBJECT LIGHTS UP NIGHT SKY I spoke with Peter Davenport Director of the National UFO Reporting Center who is very excited about the spectacular unidentified object display that caused the night sky to light up at 11:18 PM on August 15, 1999. A dramatic bluish-white ball of light was seen by observers with the apparent diameter of the full moon. One pilot described multiple large objects heading northwest turning the night sky into daylight. Peter has received numerous reports concerning the phenomenon and possible meteor that was caught on the camera at Sandia National Laboratories. Photos can be seen at http://www.UFOcenter.com. Thanks to Peter Davenport CALIFORNIA SAN JOSE � On August 22, 1999, Ralph Storey reports that I spotted a small sphere at what seemed a very high altitude at 11:25 to 11:45 AM. It shone white and bright. It moved very slowly, then stopped in midair and hovered for about fifteen minutes, then disappeared. I would have thought it was a star, except I saw it move, stop, become smaller before it disappeared. Thanks to Ralph.storey@worldnet.att.net PUERTO RICO The UFO Video Clearing House, Yucaipa, CA claims that on August 24, 1999, a giant 2 mile in diameter UFO was photographed between Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic by a private party. Those who have viewed the stills claim they amazing. They cautioned that we have heard of photos like this before. So lets not get too excited. Thanks to Dave Aaron 92399. ufoaaron@aol.com CANADA ARDMORE, ALBERTA -- On August 27, 1999, Bill Swiderski a farmer who lives northeast of Edmonton reported six circles in his hay field. All are about 4 feet in diameter with a standing one foot wide center. Three are grouped together in a semicircle, equal distances apart. The other three are a distance away from these ones, and not grouped together. The hay is not flattened, however, it is simply "missing" except for the center areas (nothing growing in the ring areas). Mr. Swiderski said that they have found the same circles in this spot for the past three years now. Thanks to Canada Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada UNITED KINGDOM LIVERPOOL -- August 30, 1999, my very reliable friend saw an oval shaped object moving over the church a few roads away from us at 04:00 AM. He described the object as being slightly bigger than a full moon. The object was not a plane because it appeared so close. At first he thought it might be a police helicopter with a searchlight but there was complete silence!!!!. It was obvious the light was extremely large and could not be the searchlight of a helicopter. The object slowly moved for five minutes until it disappeared out of view. Just as he was about to go back to bed, the object slowly traveled back again on the reverse course. After five minutes the light disappeared out of view. The speed, height and other attributes of the object did not change at all. The object was bright like a crystal would glow if you shined a light on it. It looked as though it consisted of a number of objects huddled close together as opposed to one whole object. The witness was terrified at what he saw. Thanks to Dave Ledger UFO Scotland dledger@cableinet.co.uk COATBRIDGE, SCOTLAND � Strange circles were noted in a Soccer Stadium on August 27, 1999, weird black rings appeared on their field overnight. UFO experts believe the twelve circles, only visible from the air, show the clubs crumbling Cliftonhill Stadium is being used as a secret flying saucer site. The marking's at Rover's ground in Coatbridge, Lanarkshire, were spotted by a photographer taking photograph's from a helicopter. Each ring measures around five yards in diameter and they cover half of the patch. The groundsman Hugh McBride, he said: "I would like to know what is going on?" I have never seen anything like it before. Some of the circles seem to plot out a path to the goalpost's, so maybe somebody is trying to tell us something." Thanks to "Mark Fraser. MarkFraser@hauntedscotland.freeserve.co.uk ITALY Italian Ufologist Adriano Forgione writes he conducted a research in the archives of National Italian Television Broadcasting, RAI, and discovered some interesting UFO footage. "I found an interesting daylight UFO footage, of the mysterious Flying Triangle." The objet was shot in 1985 in Valle D'Aosta in Northwest of Italy. The film was shown on national TV program called FILO' in 1985. The video passed totally unobserved and was forgotten by Italian Ufologists. The video has great importance because: 1) it's the only one to show a flying triangle in the daylight; 2) the video was taken in 1985, five years before the Belgian UFO flap (1990) and the invasion of Flying Triangles in north Europe; 3) The object is stationery in the sky and has a dark triangular structure. Thanks to Adriano Forgione JENNY RANDLES ON ABDUCTIONS (PART 2) The abduction also clearly occurs during an altered state of consciousness. The average number of witnesses for three different events shows this. A town bank robbery generates about 3 witnesses per event who are not directly involved in the incident. A non alien UFO sighting has approximately 2.6 witnesses per case from various studies -- not wildly different, suggesting both are real world events. Abductions have an average witness per case ratio of about 1.25 -- indicating they are far more subjective. Although one case I was involved with featured five witnesses (only two of whom recalled the abduction -- and then with conflicting memories), and two others featured three (again each with recall that was only partly mutually consistent and largely diverged from a common theme in independent directions), virtually all the rest were single witness events. Moreover, there were no UK observed abductions. In a few instances UFOs (mostly LITS) were seen in the same general area as the abduction. But nobody in any UK case saw the witness being abducted into a spaceship, saw the UFO that did the abducting, witnesses the same aliens that night, or in fact anything to prove an abduction occurred as opposed to proving (as some cases do) that a UFO sighting preceded the witness belief that they were abducted. The distinction between these things is paramount. In addition, there are cases (two in the UK, others in various countries) where a witness apparently undergoing an abduction is witnesses by a third party during that time. They have then been clearly seen to have physically gone nowhere, but to be in a strange ASC (described in various cases as 'a trance', or 'a catatonic sleep' or even mistaken for drunkenness on one occasion). What I think this indicates is that the experience occurs at an inner level of reality and is principally a phenomenon of consciousness rather than literal reality. The presence of the Oz Factor state triggering abductions is another key to the entering of this ASC I believe. The evidence therefore supports the existence of a UFO of some sort appearing in the area of the abduction, but only that it is then followed by a subjective experience evolving from the sighting. This occurs to a witness in an altered state during which they believe (sincerely) they have undergone an abduction but in truth they have effectively stayed where they were all the time. Certain people (the abduction prone personality) is capable of having this experience far more readily than most of us and if two people are separate but close together in space at the onset of a UFO close encounter the evidence suggests that an abduction prone personality would go on to have a deep level abduction whereas someone who is not may just see the UFO, e.g., as a strange light. Multiple witnesses cases are the key here -- which is why we need to focus upon them. Unfortunately, in nearly every case they are intimately connected individuals rather than true separate witnesses, and even when there are multiple witnesses it is frequent that only one or two of them recall anything beyond the UFO sighting -- supporting my argument that the UFO stimulus triggers different levels of experience (from nothing to an abduction) according to the witness involved. So - in answer to your question - I believe abductions are indeed real experiences. But I think they are a mixture of objective and subjective elements. I believe a real UFO can trigger them but that much of the subsequent encounter occurs as an altered state to a certain type of witness and is only subjectively real. The question is -- what is the source of the trigger phenomenon and the experience that follows within the ASC? I think there are three broad possibilities. The UFO could be some kind of natural, scientific anomaly complete with radiating energy fields. This is possibly (as Persinger suggests) stimulating the temporal lobe of certain people triggering an abduction fantasy that develops out of the belief that they have just seen a UFO (as, of course, they actually have indeed done). As yet Persinger has offered interesting theory matched by some experimental results but none that bridge the gulf between people feeling odd and having a light ASC when subjected to EM radiation and witnesses having full blown abductions -- as we know they do. Or it may be that the natural phenomenon is something I call a 'time storm' -- literally causing a temporary break down in localized time and space as a result of some as yet unknown scientific anomaly. The outcome of the time storm is to disrupt the quantum reality basis of consciousness unleashing certain visionary (but not necessarily imaginary) experiences from the other side of the rift. As such a quasi real experience occurs during the resulting altered state -- the time storm is viewed as a UFO and its consequence as an abduction. The other possibility is that a real contact is occurring between some other intelligence (perhaps extraterrestrial or inter-dimensional) but not in the traditionally assumed sense. No space ships are landing and aliens getting out to kidnap humans (thus our dearth of physical evidence). Instead contact occurs using some kind of energy probe that manifests as the UFO and to some is merely seen as that -- although its side effects can create physical evidence (such as car stops or burnt skin). With the abduction prone personality the beam switches them into an ASC and induces a waking lucid dream that conveys a contact message. Upon waking the witness recalls the light, recalls losing consciousness and subsequently waking again and perhaps vague images of the dream like contact. These may recur during subsequent flashbacks, dreams or even be stimulated by hypnosis. The result will be a mixture of genuine recall of the vision and distorted imagery introduced by our own conscious mind. But in essence the person will recall that an alien intelligence probed them, exchanged data with them and then left. This may appear in the memory as if it were a medical probe, or an examination inside a craft, but most of this imagery will be imaginative and added to the experience by our own subconscious through its store of images about what aliens are supposed to be like. The fundamental truth about abductions would be that a scanning form of contact took place -- via a beam and at a distance -- but never as a result of a literal alien kidnap. All of this is speculation -- an effort to try to make the contradictory evidence of these cases fit together. But something is going on and its understanding will, I believe, prove of great value to human knowledge. I just don't see evidence that it is the literal example of what I call 'spacenapping' - that is landing spaceships, exploring ETs and nasty anal probe bearing greys. But then again our understanding of alien reality is bound to be restricted and maybe I am wrong. Even so, as noted, aliens may still be involved in the abduction phenomenon at a more subtle level by inducing waking lucid dreams in susceptible witnesses. Hope this helps. Or that it made any sense! Best wishes, Thanks to Jenny Randles. Editor's Note: It's important to learn what some of the best researchers are learning about abductions. MICHIGAN, OHIO, AND INDIANA REPORT CONTRAILS Chuck Warren writes, "Due to the major increase of reports from three states in the past 24 hours, we have issued a "Contrail Health Warning." We have received over 70 reports from these three states in the past 24 hours, which is unusual for this region. Aircraft exhaust is causing several problems, both health and environmental. Studies show one commercial airliner leaves 15,000 times more pollution then an automobile. This exhaust rains down on the general population and can cause illness. Young children, elderly and people with respiratory problems should stay indoors today. Eight thousand people a day die from air pollution. http://www.contrailconnection.com/warning9199.htm. U.S. GOVERNMENT UFO PROOF RELEASED: Audio tapes of a genuine UFO Alert at Edwards Air Force base and studied by the Foreign Technology Division at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, are now available for distribution to the public. Lunar Astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell was at Edwards the night the UFO chase occurred. The 6th person to walk on the moon said, "The night it happened I investigated it myself and this was a real event." Sam Sherman's audio documentary tape called THE EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER on the night of October 7, 1965, uses the actual voice recordings provided by the Air Force. During this event 12 high tech luminous UFOs invade secure air space and came down low over the runways at Edwards AFB. Tower operator Sgt. Chuck Sorrels spotted them and notified the Air Defense Command. Sgt. Sorrels is heard on the original tapes and in a new segment where he verifies the event as it is heard on the archival recordings. The UFOs are described and a decision is made to launch F-106 fighter interceptors. You are there for an important part of UFO history. Hear it for yourself, it's the best UFO tape ever made. Tape cost is $14.95 each plus $2.00 for shipping -- total $16.95 -- send either a personal check or money order to: Independent International Films, Box 565, Dept. GF, Old Bridge, New Jersey 08857. Project Paranormal is now available for a preview. This Website is an interactive paranormal site that is a little different then most. Here regular folks with research and experiences can send in their information, stories, photos and artwork to be posted to the site. No one is refused. Dealing in Aliens, UFO's, Time Travel, Crop Circles, Strange Creatures, NDE, OBE's, ELE, and much more. The site is now online and awaiting your articles. We hope to provide the public with more than a one sided website. Project Paranormal is also looking for lead people to do cover stories once a month for the topic headline pages. Be sure to check back often for updates and additions to the messageboard. http://www.projectparanormal.com MUFON JOURNAL For more detailed investigative reports subscribe by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or E-mail Mufon@aol.com. Filer's Files Copyright 1999 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on their Websites provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. Send your letters to me at Majorstar@aol.com. If you wish to keep your name confidential please so state.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 [lunascan] WA MUFON Director Speaks On Sept. 1 From: Tim Edwards <tedwards@tcia.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:53:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 20:55:40 -0400 Subject: [lunascan] WA MUFON Director Speaks On Sept. 1 Subject: Reported 'Major UFO Event' Of September 1, 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:39:59 EDT From: GRolwes@aol.com To: tedwards@tcia.net Tim, I need to look up your web sites. Here is the info I have. Davenport did not speak to me until this morning when he received the attached msg. I feel he was a bit unhappy with what I had. He immediately went after me about the late evening launch of a number of F-15's flying south from Portland ANG. [Air National Guard --ebk] I have a call into the Guard public affairs officer now. It's doubtful it was anything other than an exercise. You see the ANG rarely ever has a Victor Alert--air defence alert. And when they do it's rarely more than two birds. I'm a retired USAF lt colonel assigned a long time to the fighter commands up through 1993. Anyway, it just doesn't take that much to find the truth unfortunately Bell will most likely not air what I have. He has in the past suggested I go on his show. It's events like this which prevent me from doing so. I have aired on the Jeff Rense "Sightings on Radio" show and appeared twice on the "Sightings TV Show". Hope this helps, Jerry Rolwes Washington MUFON State Director 509-327-4868 grolwes@ aol.com Subject: REPORTED MAJOR UFO EVENT OF SEPTEMBER 1, 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:57:31 EDT From: GRolwes@aol.com To: eotl@west.net, artbell@mindspring.com, %20director@ufocenter.com, perry.nouis@peterson.AF.MIL, caus@caus.org, ufolawyer@caus.org, bookdc@ccipost.net, MUFONHQ@aol.com, schuessler@mho.net Gentlemen, I was listening to the Art Bell Show last night and Peter Davenport's report on the series of calls he was taking from citizens re: the "Major Event," occurring over the Western United States. I called Peter Davenport and reported to him that I had contacted the Fairchild AFB Command Post and was informed there were no reports from eastern Washington. In my pursuit of an explanation as to what happened last night, I did something very easy to do. I called the Air Force Public Affairs office for the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD), Peterson AFB, Colo. They control the management for the Cheyenne Mountain Command Post complex. They can be reached at (719)-554-3714. I spoke to a USAF Major Nouis. The bottom-line is this. It was a spectacular event, but anything but a major UFO event. Major Nouis reported that it was a Russian rocket body item; NORAD catalogue item number 25761. Specifically, it was a center motor part from a Russian SL 12 rocket launched 28 Feb 99. It reentered the earth's atmosphere at 10:11 PM Mt. Time/ 0411 Greenwich mean time. Speed upon reentry was approximately 17,000 MPH. I hope you will all report this on your various programs and web sites and let the citizens and listeners make up their own minds. I asked Major Nouis about the comment made by some callers that the USAF said this item was to reenter in a few more days and "What would the USAF come up with for an explanation this time?" Major Nouis stated that these items are reentering the atmosphere worldwide on a very frequent basis and some more of the junk may be arriving in a few days. I'm certain if he went further, and I did not ask him to, he could get a projected reentry list of all junk ahead of time. It is not classified. Gentlemen, it just doesn't take that much to check these things out. Mr. Bell, I would assume that with a little research you could get a 24 hour duty officer phone number from NORAD and call them while your on the air. That would lend itself to some quite incredible real time broadcast journalism. And I feel most listeners would really appreciate that aspect. Before, we in this UFO research business start declaring something a "major UFO event," we may all wish to check out the facts. I even went to the trouble of trying to call the Nevada and Utah Highway Patrol offices, but was too early. Major Nouis said "It was possible that a piece of the motor could have crashed along the Nevada/Utah border." Which was reported by one of your callers. As to the power outages--has anyone called the local power companies to see what they have to say as to why the outages occurred? Accuracy in UFO research is not that difficult to come by with a few phone calls. I hope this info will be of value. Jerry Rolwes MUFON State Director Washington State 509-327-4868 grolwes@aol.comReturn-path: GRolwes@aol.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: artbell | perry.nouis |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Experience Gap [was Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:19:50 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:01:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Experience Gap [was Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds >Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:01:38 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:33:40 -0500 >>From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >>Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>I always wonder what people hope to accomplish by spending more >>time discussing something they cannot prove or disprove when >>they might learn more by getting out and having their own "close >>encounter" >Can you tell me exactly how I can do this? >-- >John Rimmer Sure can John.... fait attencione, s'ill vous plais.... In order to have an encounter, you must hang around with someone like me... I'll make you a deal, such a deal. You come live with me, uh, us, that is, my wife and I. I would not care to have people talk about us, you know. Anyway, come live with us. You will of course, have to provide us with room and bored money... as you will be bored a lot on accounta nothing happens all that often. But eventually, something or other will happen. And you will be there to witness it. We live in a condominium. It's very large unit, more than 2000 square feet in a mid-rise, all on one floor... very bright and airy. And the windows are very large. The master bedroom window is ten feet by seven feet, length/width. On the other hand, so am I. Large that is. Now, I want you to picture a large man with an ample tummy, laying on his back, snoring to a Dylan tune. The tummy is (I'm trying to be nice to me now) uh, bigger around than the rest of this guy. Even with all that window, he sometimes gets caught while being wafted on a beam of light, on his back, slowly being pushed by little critters through the window. Can you imagine this scene? Three, maybe four skinny little pastey freakazoids pushing this rather rotund old fart through the window, tummy stuck on the top and buns stuck on the bottom? That's Gesundt. Anyone would pay dearly to get a Polaroid of that sight. And in answer to your query, I'll supply the film and the camera. You just pay room and board and prepare to be bored while you wait. OK? Have I answered you question? J. Jaime Gesundt
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: Project Pelican From: Allen Loper <cheepnis@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 23:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:57:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Pelican >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:45:21 EDT >Subject: Re: Project Pelican >To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:20:16 +0000 >>From: Dave Bowden <dave.bowden@cableinet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Project Pelican >>Hi to bird lovers everywhere, >>With all the Pelican prattle going on I thought you may >>like to see these images. >>Two attached JPGs. >>Dave. >>BTW Jim M, brilliant posting, pretty much hit the nail on the >>head. I have never been abducted, (bad blood, too much alcohol) >>but reading your mail made me appreciate what it must be like. >Dear Errol, List, Dave, Phil, Mo, Larry and Curly... (this is >friendly council, no last names required here!) >After viewing the images attached to your post entitled "Project >Pelican," I can better appreciate how Phil, Mo, Larry and Curly >can mistake pelicans in flight for UFOs. I appologize from my >bottom, for making fun. Had I only known. >I'm so ashamed of myself. All I can say is, "Nyuk-nyuk" and >"Duck-duck!" (Them pelicans can really unload!). >Jim Mortellaro Okay, so heres my $.02 woth... I live in Florida and the Pelican doo is just one hell of a problem... instead of snow blowers we have... (insert word here) blowers. They even sell baseball caps here with fake bird excrement on them Thanks Doc k "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." --Arthur C. Clarke http://www.mindspring.com/~cheepnis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: Experience Gap From: Sue Strickland <strick@H2Net.net> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:31:24 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:00:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Experience Gap >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:19:50 EDT >Subject: Re: Experience Gap [was Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull...] >To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:01:38 +0100 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >>>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:33:40 -0500 >>>From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >>>Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Jim wrote: >Can you imagine this scene? Three, maybe four skinny little >pastey freakazoids pushing this rather rotund old fart through >the window, tummy stuck on the top and buns stuck on the bottom? You're a prize! What a scream! I haven't laughed this hard since Dad announced the "newest explanation... swamp gas"! I'll be laughing about this for a week. What a picture! That'd be better than a close-up portrait of those little grey guys! Set it up! You and John could make history. Thanks for the imagery. Hugs to both, Sue
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 00:40:30 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 03:05:38 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:50:11 EDT >Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:25:27 -0400 >Subject: >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:53:35 EDT >>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Dubose described an earlier flight than Marcel's, which he >>remembered as being several days before, not the same day. This >>is when Roswell base informed him of the crash and apparently >>having some material. When he relayed this up to acting SAC >>Chief, Gen. McMullen, he was ordered to have the material >>shipped immediately to Washington by "colonel courier." The >>flight arrived at night in FW, where Dubose met it. The >>material was transferred to Col. Clarke, the FW deputy base >>commander, and flown on another plane to Washington. The bag >>was sealed and attached to the wrists of the couriers, so >Dubose >certainly never saw the "real debris" here. >I am well aware of the Sunday 6 flight in the evening, but I am >was talking about another flight which took place on Tuesday 8. >This flight clearly mentioned by General DuBose in a long >interview with Jaime Shandera, published in the MUFON UFO >Journal on January 1991. DuBose said that he was alone to meet >the plane, a B-29, and Marcel was not there. Let's quote the >exact text of two parts of the interview: Gildas, My apologies for misinterpreting what you wrote. I don't have a transcript of this interview, though I have seen brief excerpts of it, primarily from skeptics. My impression previously of this interview had been that Dubose was compressing the earlier flight, which he sometimes described, and the Marcel flight into one event. Skeptics had done that as well to bolster their arguments that what was photographed was what Marcel had brought from Roswell, which to most people's eye at least is a balloon. However, you have a different take on what Dubose said which I (and I think others) haven't thought of before. >(page 14) >Question: >Now as to this Roswell business - let's begin when >Jesse Marcel came over from Roswell with this material. >DuBose's Answer of: >Yes. Well, as best I can recall, I met the airplane that came in >from Roswell and I took a canvas mail pouch with this debris in it >over to General Ramey's office" And this is where the skeptics say, "See, that is what Marcel brought from Roswell." >Q.: What type of plane was it ? >A.: A B-29 Also Marcel's plane, a B-29. So at first sight, it seems to point to Marcel's flight. >Q.: Did you see additional debris on the plane ? >A.: No, I was just handed this canvas mail pouch with the stuff in it, > and I headed straight to Roger's office. This does differ in significant ways from the Marcel flight, where the debris samples Marcel took to Ramey's office were wrapped in brown paper, according to Robert Porter (and as suggested by the paper on the floor in the photos). As you mention below, it also differs from Dubose's statements about the earlier flight. Though he also met this flight, he did not describe the bag as being canvas, but plastic (as I remember). The bag was attached to a courier's wrist, then immediately transferred to another plane headed for Washington. The "colonel courier" on this leg was Col. Clarke, the base commander at FWAAF. Dubose never handled this bag and never took it to Ramey's office (Dubose said Ramey wasn't there at the base). >Now another key passage of that interview: >(page 15) >Q.: Now was Marcel with you at that point ? >A.: No, he wasn't. NObody was. I had met the airplane. >Q.: So Marcel didn't come with that bundle ? >A.: Not at that time. If he was there, I was anaware of it - > perhaps he was not on that plane. The skeptics have left this section of the interview out (not surprisingly), where Dubose said he didn't see Marcel and Marcel may not have even been on this plane. I wasn't even aware of this until now. Marcel also said that he went directly to Ramey's office carrying the wrapped debris samples that he had brought with him. That's also is in contrast to Dubose's story of having the canvas bag handed to him, and personally taking it to Ramey's office. >(Note: The suggestion that > there was more than one plane from Roswell is consistent with > statements made by other witneses.) A very interesting take on Dubose's testimony. >I took this pouch to Ramey's office. In it was a bunch of trash. >We unbuckled it and laid it out on the floor. It was cold >potatoes as far as I was concerned." >This is the flight was mentioning, and I think that it is key of >the whole story. It seems clear to me that, yes there were two >different flights that day (at least): the flight with Marcel >and other officers, as described by Marcel and Porter, with >small packages, this flight met by DuBose alone, wiht a pouch of >balloon debris which he carried to Ramey's office. Again, I don't think anybody has ever brought this up before. Dubose certainly never mentioned this flight or a canvas bag in any other interview (which made me think maybe Shandera/Moore had made it up.) All I recall Dubose previously saying about this is that Ramey got the balloon debris from somewhere, but he didn't know where. According to your scenario, Dubose in this interview was describing a separate flight that brought it in. I have thought for some time that the debris was flown in from the outside, but was unaware of anybody possibly mentioning such a flight. Dubose said that the plane was a B-29, which is a fast propeller plane, top speed about 365 mph. I know that White Sands and also the Army weather services in Kansas City, both about 500 miles distant from FW, also used the ML-307 Rawin target, so those are both possible sources. A B-29 could have made the flight in about 1-1/2 hours. If such recovered debris was actually taken to Roswell base (400 miles from FW), one could knock 15 minutes off that flight time. Rawin target launches at White Sands were carried out four times a day starting 72 hours before the next scheduled V-2 launch. This means that a flurry of them would have started June 30 in preparation for the planned July 3 launch, or 9 days prior to July 8. That's a dozen possible weather balloon with Rawin targets from that area, one of which might have been retrieved by some other rancher shortly before July 8. Perhaps the news story about similar material being found near Carrizozo (with lettering on it) is a hint as to where it came from. (Carrizozo is about 90 miles west of Roswell) That's enough time to give the balloon in the FW photos the darkened, weathered look from exposure to the sun for a few days, but not long enough for it to deteriorate into brittle black flakes after a month's sun exposure (which would be the case if this really was from an early June Mogul flight). The Fort Worth weather balloon and radar target were always described as singular by Ramey, Kirton, and Newton, i.e., the description of a standard meteorological balloon, not a multi-balloon, multi-radar target Mogul. The FW photos also show the singular balloon as obviously still being rubber-like or pliable, not brittle and fragmented. So I think it a reasonable possibility that some recently recovered weather balloon from the White Sands/Alamogordo area was flown to Fort Worth for a photo op. If Dubose received the order from Washinton to start a cover-up a few minutes after the press release, and a balloon story was quickly settled on by Ramey's staff, a little hustling might have gotten such a balloon to FW by about 5:30 FW time, about when I peg J.B. Johnson showed up at the base to take photos. Alternatively, this cover story could have been in preparation as a contingency plan for an entire day (as suggested by Col. Ryan, Ramey's op officer, mentioning to the press the previous day that he thought radar targets were the explanation for the flying disks). When it became necessary to implement it because of the press feeding frenzy that followed immediately after the press release, everything was already in place to carry it out. The base operations officer(Ryan) would have been a logical person to have arranged the whole thing and had the debris flown in. My hunch is that it wasn't coincidence that Ryan replaced Blanchard at Roswell the following year. As an important member of Ramey's staff (one of five colonels at FWAAF, Dubose and Clarke being two others), I suspect he was in on it. Washington may have wanted somebody already in-the-know on the matter to remain in command at Roswell to keep an eye on things. Admittedly this is just conjecture. >This explains why DuBose insisted so much that de debris had >not been switched, and that he had never seen the real debris. >I am afraid that a confusion has been made between this flight >and the one of Sunday, where a sealed pouch was receptioned by >DuBose and sent directly to Washington without opening it. That >is the flight you described in your post. Yep, that seems to be the source of the confusion, to me at least. Thanks for pointing out your different and very interesting interpretation. >One cause of this confusion may be that DuBose mentions only the >first one in his affidavit. >BTW, I think you made a very good remark: if the debris sent on >Sunday with the first flight was from of a balloon, people in >Washington had plenty of time, on Monday, to discover that, and >stop the mess at once. But if it was real debris, that's another >story!! >Gildas Bourdais Certainly other flights of debris would not have been necessary. How much identification does balloon debris need? Once is enough. Even Ramey and people (e.g. Kirton) publicly announced that the flight to Wright Field had been cancelled, because the debris had already been identified as a weather balloon. The story was a flagrant lie. Later that evening Ramey had to change his story, probably because Wright Field when contacted by the press told them that the flight was on the way. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Experience Gap From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:59:38 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 03:21:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Experience Gap >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:19:50 EDT >Subject: Re: Experience Gap >To: updates@globalserve.net Hi James, Errol, All <huge snip> >Can you imagine this scene? Three, maybe four skinny little >pastey freakazoids pushing this rather rotund old fart through >the window, tummy stuck on the top and buns stuck on the bottom? >That's Gesundt. >Anyone would pay dearly to get a Polaroid of that sight. And in >answer to your query, I'll supply the film and the camera. You >just pay room and board and prepare to be bored while you wait. >OK? At what rate Jim? I might take you up on your offer for two weeks next summer <insert simply HUGE G> In fact I'd even supply the camera film, prolly cos I'd need rolls an rolls of the stuff whilst I was in America. <g> -- In an infinite universe infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm UFO page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Project Pelican From: Dave Bowden <dave.bowden@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 15:21:32 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 01:05:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Pelican >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Project Pelican >Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:07:04 -0700 >>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:20:16 +0000 >>From: dave bowden <dave.bowden@cableinet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Project Pelican >Hello, all >>Hi to bird lovers everywhere, >>With all the Pelican prattle going on I thought you may like to >>see these images. >>Two attached JPGs. >>Dave. >>BTW Jim M, brilliant posting, pretty much hit the nail on the >>head. I have never been abducted, (bad blood, too much alcohol >>but reading your mail made me appreciate what it must be like. >This is the funnest posting on the pelican mess I've seen!! Like >the good Doctor, I try to Take every thing in this controversy >with a dose of Gri...er salt. This is great salt. >Also, for those this is lost on, this reminds me of Mel Brooks: >"Young Frankenstien... er, steen" It's pronounced Fronkensteen! >you couldn't see the original >Boris Karloff movie without sniggering about the Brooksian >version. >Thanks, Dave. Glad you liked it, let's hope the point has been made and we can get on with the more serious stuff, Pelicans, crash test dummies and balloons aside. Dave.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 4 Alfred's Odd Ode #315 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 05:38:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 13:17:39 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #315 Apology to MW #315 (For September 4, 1999) I'd rather live what's real and suffer, tied to wheels and rent asunder -- slapped by chance and brought down low before I'd live the stuff YOU throw. You have earned my disrespect to have performed in glad neglect, and hiding bruises of your shame behind indifference you should name. I'm compelled to this expression -- I call it a benign obsession. It satisfies and sustains me even as it frets and pains me. To propose that I'm not fooled by what we're taught in canted schools. . . that's enough! I bare my CHEST and DARE your BEST shot as my test. I know that I'm a bug to you, I know that you can smash me -- true. I know you'd swat me like a fly, and instantly forget I died It won't make you less a slug -- a common psychopathic thug. It won't leave you any richer, fill your belly -- draw your pitcher. It won't keep your fear at bay. It won't make me go away, I come back -- another form. I AM unrest! I am the norm. Conspiracy? It lives and breathes! It's but a symptom of disease that hobbles us and keeps us backward -- at the whim of brigands -- bastards! We're awash in its convenience; numbed and bullied, we won't see it. We don't stand on solid ground, 'cause culture is contrived -- unsound! It could go right up in smoke, a killer bug, a comet -- smote! We won't even cop to truth that all ADMIT corrupts our youth. YOU'RE content to build a jail, while righteous scholarship prevails, and YOU'RE so mean you'd fill a prison, closing all the schools -- your mission? You _want_ a RABBLE crossing you! To keep it ignorant is what you _do_. We don't matter -- never did! We're tissues used with which you're rid. Keep us stupid, wrapped in sports, producing brand new guns and forts 'till those of us provide excuse -- are burnt up like those tissues used. I'm not important. I don't matter -- just a mote, but I heat _water_. Kept alive, and left alone until I threaten -- then I'm mown. I look UP from where _you_ put me -- I am sentient, so you drug me with the newest Willis film, sports scores, or a scandals filth. It seems to me the systems made to keep us stupid, scared -- disgraced, and I perceive it clear and fine that nothing here is realized! It's smoke and mirrors, spin and dazzle -- keeps one guessing hungry -- hassled . . . keeps us *working*, buying *stuff* that wears out fast -- it's not enough. Perhaps it's _best_ we suffer this to keep an edge that makes YOU rich. Perhaps we _need_ too many people to pick and choose -- to cut the feeble. Perhaps we _should_ avoid the stars -- retreat from space accept YOUR bars, and live our lives, a charnel's squalor, so you can live the goodlife -- *father*. The *haves* control the *havenots* -- the way it's always been. The *havenots* can't get edgewise -- their words were muffled then. But NOW we'd speak to everyone! The word gets out -- it's lots of *fun*! Ideas at the speed of light are reaching out so new and bright. Everyone their TV station -- not regulated? A CELEBRATION, and we can read the words of many _unfiltered_ by the censor's plenty. We don't have to wait for answers! We can find, and cure, that cancer. We can grasp our very lives! Yes! Snatch them back from men despised! It's hard enough to hoe their row if you've been blessed with _any_ dough. It's hard to laugh, or see the sky, or sit around and wonder *why* if struggle is your lot in strife, or fear and terror stress your life! It's difficult when so distracted by the price the man exacted when he forced you to be born in ignorance that he suborns. There is much that he pretends. What he hides upsets -- offends, and you, distracted, harried -- bothered, are jerked around like common fodder. Disrespected, and ignored (until you bother priests and lords) you blithely do their *earnest* bidding, ignore the saucers (leaping -- flitting), and place your nose upon their stones to grind for them their ill-got thrones. We ALL shall sit on righteous thrones! Autonomy is ours alone! We have earned it in the cheap shot way we're brought into this world to pay. Much *respected* as we're born, it's quick we find the real horn! Then we're scourged as we discover disrespect becomes our lover, and flirting with that sacrifice we're snatched away from paradise! We don't have a wit or clue that what we're handed's bent askew. We ignore our homelessness, we rape the Earth, but I digress. We won't make for elevation, won't provide for our progression. We're mired in a mud of malice -- hate is rampant, hot, and jealous! Schools are nurseries for that hatred -- crowded, dirty, and outdated. We shall spawn our own perdition, wallow in our late contrition. *You* shall wander marked, despised, when folks become aware -- get wise, and drive you from your airy reaches copped from those you've maimed, you leeches. . . Lehmberg@snowhill.com Didn't a whole bunch of kids die in that fire -- Waco, Texas? Jesus -- if they'd lie about THAT . . . "Conspiracy? It lives and breathes"! Restore John Ford! -- Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more. Consider Matter, Mind & Movement. See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration. Take a ride in the Teleporter. Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL. http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ **Updated 4 September>** http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at: 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 4 John Ford? From: Martin Jeffrey <martin-j@lineone.net> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:30:28 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 13:21:16 -0400 Subject: John Ford? I am currently writing an article about people involved with the paranormal who have become suspects or have been convicted of murder or related crimes. I have enough information for my article but I have a number of questions about John Ford of the Long Island UFO Network and the South Haven "UFO crash". Has anybody seen or know of anybody who has seen the footage allegedly sent to the LIUFON containing footage of the alien crash and alien retreival? Where has the video and photographs gone? What has happened to Joe Mazzuchelli and Edward ------- ? who was arrested along with John. Is there facts relating to this case that I should know? I wish to give a balanced account of John's arrest and would be grateful for any information sent. Cheers Martin Jeffrey Mystery Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 4 'Strange Days... Indeed' Michael J. Woods & Hernan From: Errol Bruce-Knapp Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 16:13:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 16:13:14 -0400 Subject: 'Strange Days... Indeed' Michael J. Woods & Hernan 'Strange Days... Indeed' On the first two-hour edition in the new 21:00 Eastern time slot this Sunday night we're adding some new features. Joining Co-Host Jonn Kares and I will be: -------------------- /// Michael J. Woods --------------------- One of four new monthly columnists Mike is a local TV news producer who has some very definite views on UFOs and the phenomena surrounding them and is not shy about expressing them. Long-time subscribers to UFO UpDates may recall Mike's pithy posts on media and ufology. Many researchers will also recall Mike from our trip to Roswell together for the 50th 'Anniversary'. Mike is an ex-military man and boxer. As many news-hounds in newsrooms around Canada will attest, he's a no-nonsense kind of guy - his car plate tells it like it is: 'UFO GUY'. Mike has a new, regular, monthly slot, after the UFO News in the first hour. --------------------- /// Hernan Buonannoe ---------------------- Egio Hernan De La Vega-Buonannoe, our guest for the second hour, was born in Argentina in 1944. At the age of 13 Hernan became fascinated by OVNIs and has been constantly involved with the UFO field ever since. In 1961 Hernan joined the Military Aviation School, graduated and served as a pilot, for five years, with the Argentinian Air Force. He then worked as a pilot for a civilian aircraft maintenance company. In 1977 Hernan moved his family to Canada where he still flies for pleasure and continues his UFO-related work. He also spends a fair amount of time re-visiting Argentina and keeps up with the UFO scene there too. Hernan has many intriguing Argentine UFO stories to tell and we'll be encouraging him to do so. Join Mike, Hernan, Jonn and I this Sunday evening as we discuss these Strange Days... Indeed on CFRB 1010 AM - 50,000 watts 'Clear-Channel' 6070khz Shortwave you can also listen via Media Player at: www.cfrb.com/ You'll need to access the site using Internet Explorer since Media Player seems to choke using any version of Netscape - thanks Mr. Bill! To call the program dial: On-Air 416-872-1010 1-800-561-CFRB [all over North America] *TALK [local mobiles] Errol Bruce-Knapp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Experience Gap From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:40:55 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 07:17:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Experience Gap >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:19:50 EDT >>Subject: Re: Experience Gap >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:01:38 +0100 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >>>>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:33:40 -0500 >>>>From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >>>>Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>I always wonder what people hope to accomplish by spending more >>>>time discussing something they cannot prove or disprove when >>>>they might learn more by getting out and having their own "close >>>>encounter" >>>Can you tell me exactly how I can do this? >>>-- >>>John Rimmer >>Sure can John.... fait attencione, s'ill vous plais.... >><snip> >>Anyone would pay dearly to get a Polaroid of that sight. And in >>answer to your query, I'll supply the film and the camera. You >>just pay room and board and prepare to be bored while you wait. >>OK? >>Have I answered you question? >>J. Jaime Gesundt I know this is a bit much, but I have to tell you guys where this silly story came from. It came from my wonderful wife. We've been married a bit more than 30 years. She is a beautiful lady in more ways than one hundred and a very talented artist. About eight years ago, she was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis. And it was about that time, that I began to share my memory of experiences with her. She is highly educated and not someone who suffers liars and idiots. Which means I may be the exception to her normal rules. Anyway, as her illness got worse, we grew closer and closer. And now, she knows everything about the loony bin she married. And what's more, she believes that I believe what has happened. She gives credence to the strongest of possibilities, that what I've perceived, is pretty much what has happened. On at least one occasion, she may very well have been a part of an experience. One which only very few people know about. But I digress. The one thing which makes her laugh hard.. and I mean really hard, is the sight of little grays, attempting to get my bulk through the window. "How you make it through," she says, "is a testimony to their technology. Either that, or to their dogheaded stubburness at an impossible task, that of getting _you_ through the window. If they are not highly advanced at getting big things through small spaces, they are at least stubborn about solving impossible problems." I am yet again, on a diet. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Experience Gap From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:16:29 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 07:23:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Experience Gap >Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:59:38 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: Experience Gap >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:19:50 EDT >>Subject: Re: Experience Gap >>To: updates@globalserve.net >Hi James, Errol, All ><huge snip> >>Can you imagine this scene? Three, maybe four skinny little >>pastey freakazoids pushing this rather rotund old fart through >>the window, tummy stuck on the top and buns stuck on the bottom? >>That's Gesundt. >>Anyone would pay dearly to get a Polaroid of that sight. And in >>answer to your query, I'll supply the film and the camera. You >>just pay room and board and prepare to be bored while you wait. >>OK? >At what rate Jim? I might take you up on your offer for two >weeks next summer <insert simply HUGE G>In fact I'd even supply >the camera film, prolly cos I'd need rolls an rolls of the stuff >whilst I was in America. <g> Dear Sean and everyone who has responded to my original post; I hate like hell to disappoint you guys (and some gals, too... heh, heh) but I've already accepted Mr. and Mrs. Fill DeGlass as our house guests. Fill offered the most for the position of resident witness to all which may happen in the Gesundt household. He suggested a fee of $1850 the month, providing he gets all the Gripple he can consume. His camera, his film, uh, but he says not to take any pictures of his "wife!" Seems she's one of those gals who like to holler "Love you long time" a lot. Met her back Nam and kept her all these years. Now that _is_ a long time, eh? So Mr. and "Mrs." DeGlass are gonna be with us for a while. We'll take good care of them, not to worry. Oh, Missy Leanne, I promise NEVER to mention anything related to a pate' with a gradient during the time Mrs. DeGlass is with us. I already learned my lesson in what is PI and what is PC. It is PC, for example, to assume that whatever is anomalous, isn't. And it is PI to assume that whatever is anomalous, isn't. Oh God, I'm so confused! Gesundt
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 12:02:19 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 08:14:36 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:21:54 EDT >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net >History records that there were those diehards in Columbus' day >who held on to their Flat World theories even after Columbus and >his crew discovered the New World. Actually there are still people who believe the world is flat. (Perhaps not seriously). Ever heard of the Flat Earth Society? This prompted me to create the "Flat Space Society". Check out the link below. Please send any interesting links or related information that I can add to the webpage to me by email. -- Perry Mick Founder, Flat Space Society perrym@teleport.com http://www.bridgingworlds.com/fss.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: John Ford? From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 14:50:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:55:14 -0400 Subject: Re: John Ford? >From: Martin Jeffrey <martin-j@lineone.net> >To: <hauntedscotland@listbot.com> >Subject: John Ford? >Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:30:28 +0100 >I am currently writing an article about people involved with the >paranormal who have become suspects or have been convicted of >murder or related crimes. >I have enough information for my article but I have a number of >questions about John Ford of the Long Island UFO Network and the >South Haven "UFO crash". >Has anybody seen or know of anybody who has seen the footage >allegedly sent to the LIUFON containing footage of the alien >crash and alien retreival? Where has the video and photographs >gone? >What has happened to Joe Mazzuchelli and Edward ------- ? >who was arrested along with John. > >Is there facts relating to this case that I should know? I wish >to give a balanced account of John's arrest and would be >grateful for any information sent. > >Cheers > >Martin Jeffrey >Mystery Magazine Sir -- a search turns up precious little. I'm more than a little interested in this myself. If you hear anything please echo it to the list, or in an E-mail to me. John Ford's accuser, and the impetus behind his incarceration, John Powell, is involved in an imbroglio of his own regarding criminal conspiracy and the racketeering of his unethical political machine. This is proven, and not contested, while the facts, conditions, and situation of John Ford remains to be extremely bizarre, contrived, and unlikely. Powell had a reason to avoid investigation of _any_ type. Ford was only taking advantage of a constitutional right to perform that lawfully executed investigation. I think it's enough to stroke your beard and say -- "hmmm." Please let me know what you find. Lehmberg@snowhill.com -- Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more. Consider Matter, Mind & Movement. See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration. Take a ride in the Teleporter. Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL. http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ **Updated 4 September>** http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at: 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 5 Serious Ufologists In Turkey? From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 15:59:53 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:48:10 -0400 Subject: Serious Ufologists In Turkey? Hello List! I am looking for names, addresses and (possibly) e-mail of any serious (scientific-oriented) ufologist in Turkey. Can anybody help? Sorry for those who might receive this request from more than one mailing list. Best regards Edoardo Russo Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033 http://www.arpnet.it/ufo e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #315 From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 17:33:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:50:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #315 >Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 05:38:07 -0500 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #315 >Apology to MW #315 (For September 4, 1999) Apology to Alfred for snipping! >The *haves* control the *havenots* -- the way it's always been. I wonder what the body count is over the years for those who dared utter those same words in other times. You poke the sleeping giant with a very pointed stick Alfred. I'm afraid it takes something more like a healthy charge of dynamite in or near its rectum! It has to be in mortal dread before it is roused to action. Appeals to 'its' reason do little to rouse it from its deep lethargy. >Didn't a whole bunch of kids die in that fire -- Waco, Texas? Yep! Whole bunch of kids, women, men. Let's not ignore the fact that the military was present at a civilian action! "Advisors," isn't that also what they used to call those killers they sent over to Viet Nam initially? >Jesus -- if they'd lie about THAT . . . They'd lie about anything! Felt good to finish that sentence for you. ;) >"Conspiracy? It lives and breathes"! What that undead rotting corpse needs is a steak through the heart or is that a 'silver bullet!' I've got a novel idea, how about a revolution? I'm afraid that reclaiming the world from the 'few' will cost more lives than several of our largest wars combined. UFO secrets? That's the least of it. Always a good read Alfred. Thanx for the prod. John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: John Ford? From: Sandy Gudaitis <nevadamufon@lvcm.com> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 16:00:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:54:55 -0400 Subject: Re: John Ford? >From: Martin Jeffrey <martin-j@lineone.net> >To: <hauntedscotland@listbot.com> >Subject: John Ford? >Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:30:28 +0100 >I am currently writing an article about people involved with the >paranormal who have become suspects or have been convicted of >murder or related crimes. >I have enough information for my article but I have a number of >questions about John Ford of the Long Island UFO Network and the >South Haven "UFO crash". >Has anybody seen or know of anybody who has seen the footage >allegedly sent to the LIUFON containing footage of the alien >crash and alien retreival? Where has the video and photographs >gone? >What has happened to Joe Mazzuchelli and Edward ------- ? >who was arrested along with John. Martin, My husband and I have seen the video tape of the Long Island retrieval. Also, spoke to John Ford about it. If you want more info please contact me privately. Sandy nevadamufon@lvcm.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 5 CPR-Canada News: Large Crop Formation in From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:16:00 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 12:08:49 -0400 Subject: CPR-Canada News: Large Crop Formation in CPR-Canada News News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Large New Crop Formation in Neilburg, Saskatchewan September 4, 1999 _____________________________ Editor: Paul Anderson _____________________________ More circle reports still coming in. Received a call this morning from farmer Laura Herle in Neilburg, Saskatchewan, northwest of Saskatoon, near the Alberta border. A formation of ten circles was found in the afternoon of September 3, by Dave Robertson who was swathing the wheat field, and came across them. When I spoke to him after, he told me they were definitely not there a week or so ago when they had last been in the field to do fertilizing. He did up a diagram, which Laura then faxed. Three "arms" of circles coming out from a larger central circle. The centre circle is about 35 feet in diametre, the others range from 4 feet to 22 feet. The "top" two circles and the centre circle are clockwise, the others are all counterclockwise, all with very neat swirling and flattening of the crop. No tracks, paths or other damage was found (and was looked for). Mr. Robertson said the crop is thick enough that any entry pathways (by people) should have been easily seen, and there were none. Layout of the formation has a somewhat "julia set" type appearance to it. The whole pattern is about 200 feet across. There is a possibility of using another local farmer's small plane to take aerial shots. Crop has been swathed already (circles discovered during the swathing), but there is about six inches of standing crop left, with the circles themselves pressed right down flat to the ground and still intact. Farmers are agreeable to sampling and other field work; field report and images to follow asap. Preliminary diagram attached. This is the seventh Canadian report now for 1999, and the first this year from Saskatchewan (usually the centre of activity, the Canadian equivalent of Wiltshire or Hampshire in England, so to speak). Our efforts at trying to establish a reporting network for farmers, media, the public, etc. seem to be paying off! There is also an unconfirmed report of a new formation in the province of Prince Edward Island, reportedly mentioned on a local radio station just a few days ago; am trying to track this one down; if you have heard anything, please let me know. Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada _____________________________ Circle Phenomena in Canada Report Archive 1999: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html A reminder for all Canadian subscribers / readers - your assistance is welcome and needed - ANY reports of other possible circles this year, please do let us know as soon as possible! See Reporting and Field Research Guidelines on the web site for more information: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reporting.html _____________________________ CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International), and is published periodically or as breaking news develops, with the latest news and information and is available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or "unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.ca CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions. Forward all correspondence to: CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Office Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 � Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 1999 neilburg.gif
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 5 Timothy Good & Gordon Creighton? From: Larry Robson <robsons@poco-a-poco.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 08:13:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 12:11:30 -0400 Subject: Timothy Good & Gordon Creighton? [Non-Subscriber Post] Can anyone help me contact Mr Timothy Good? I am a lifelong friend of Gordon Creighton and was at the Royal Academy of Music at the same time as Timothy. I have a important message for Mr Good which I know will be of interest to him. Please contact me at larry_robson@yahoo.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: Marty Murray <bubastis@warplink.com> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:41:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 07:37:46 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 12:02:19 -0700 >From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >>Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:21:54 EDT >>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>History records that there were those diehards in Columbus' day >>who held on to their Flat World theories even after Columbus and >>his crew discovered the New World. >Actually there are still people who believe the world is flat. >(Perhaps not seriously). Ever heard of the Flat Earth Society? >This prompted me to create the "Flat Space Society". Check out >the link below. Please send any interesting links or related >information that I can add to the webpage to me by email. Hi Perry! Yes, actually, I have heard of the Flat Earth Society, and believe it or not they are quite serious! I had a highschool history teacher who is a member, and we couldn't believe this guy. Actually they don't think the Earth is "flat", but somewhat of a flattened egg shape. And just like the UFO skeptics and people who don't think we landed on the moon, they have all sorts of elaborate explanations and theories to justify their beliefs. I'm certain they must have a web site, which you could probably check out for an extremely big chuckle! :-) Cheers, Marty
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Serious Ufologists In Turkey? From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@ukgateway.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 19:31:21 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 07:40:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Serious Ufologists In Turkey? >Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 15:59:53 +0200 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it> >Subject: Serious Ufologists In Turkey? >Hello List! >I am looking for names, addresses and (possibly) e-mail of any >serious (scientific-oriented) ufologist in Turkey. >Can anybody help? Hello Edoardo, Erol Erkman from TUVPO has posted on this list and might see your message, if not his contact deatails are: TUVPO (Turkish UFO and Paranormal Organization) Omerpasa sok., no. 66/1 81080 Erenkoy stanbul Turkey Phone: 02163600389-02164113529 Chairman: Erol Erkmen erolerk@tuvpoorg.cjb.net Mail:- tuvpoorg@tuvpoorg.cjb.net http://tuvpoorg.cjb.net/ I also have details of one other Turkish UFO Organization which might be of use: Sirius UFO Uzay Bilimleri Merkezi Fener-Kalam� Cad. Konuralp Sok. Billur Apt. Blok:1 D:1 Fenerbahe Istanbul Turkey Phone/Fax: 90 216 330 55 15 ufotr@netone.com.tr Hope this helps, John Hayes ufoinfo@ukgateway.net webmaster@ufoinfo.com UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com Archives for UFO Roundup/Filer's Files/UK UFO Network Bulletin/ AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Serious Ufologists In Turkey? From: Erol Erkmen <andromeda1@turk.net> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:18:41 +0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 07:49:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Serious Ufologists In Turkey? >Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 15:59:53 +0200 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it> >Subject: Serious Ufologists In Turkey? >Hello List! >I am looking for names, addresses and (possibly) e-mail of any >serious (scientific-oriented) ufologist in Turkey. >Can anybody help? >Sorry for those who might receive this request from more than >one mailing list. Turkish Ufo and Paranormal Org. TUVPO's main E-mail addresses bize bndereceiniz mailleriniz modunda olmaldr. Please send your mails plain text only For General - Genel konularda Erol Erkmen erolerk@tuvpoorg.cjb.net andromeda1@turk.net To contact the Public Relations - Halkla ili�kiler sorumlumuz-Tayfun zata- tayfun@tuvpoorg.cjb.net tayfuno@mail.koc.net To contact media relations - medya sorumlumuz Re�at Erel mediatem@tuvpoorg.cjb.net To contact the TUVPO Mexico Representative - Mexico temsilcimiz-- -Jorge Andrade jorgean@tuvpoorg.cjb.net To contact the TUVPO Bursa city represantative BURSA temsilcimiz M.Sertrk Karacaoval bursatem@tuvpoorg.cjb.net mserturk@superonline.com To contact the TUVPO Izmir city represantative ZMR temsilcimiz lhan Serbest izmtem@tuvpoorg.cjb.net iserbest@turnet.net.tr ilhans@artemis.efes.net.tr To contact the TUVPO Marmara Region Representative - Marmara blge temsilcilii(bo�) marmara@tuvpoorg.cjb.net To contact the TUVPO Anatolian Representative Anadolu temsilcimiz Ayhan Dever ayhande@tuvpoorg.cjb.net dayhan@hotmail.com To contact the TUVPO Science Consultant Bilim dan�manmz Dr. Levent Altas levetalt@tuvpoorg.cjb.net altas@boun.edu.tr To contact the TUVPO Military Consultant Askeri dan�manmz Orhan Berk orhanberk@tuvpoorg.cjb.net http://members.tripod.com/~ufolojist/default.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Experience Gap From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 15:26:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 07:52:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Experience Gap >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:40:55 EDT >Subject: Re: Experience Gap >To: updates@globalserve.net >The one thing which makes her laugh hard.. and I mean really >hard, is the sight of little grays, attempting to get my bulk >through the window. "How you make it through," she says, "is a >testimony to their technology. Either that, or to their >dogheaded stubburness at an impossible task, that of getting >_you_ through the window. If they are not highly advanced at >getting big things through small spaces, they are at least >stubborn about solving impossible problems." Jim, Next time you feel yourself being carted out the window even though paralyzed, imagine in your mind a vivid and detailed image of you sitting _on_ some of those little buggers and their eyes bulging out of their little sockets while being squished. If they are taking people against their wills, we have the right to apply a little "reverse" psychology and psych them out. Abductions are _wrong_. Don't make their job easy, maintain your rights as much as possible. Fight back and keep on fighting in any way possible! My prayers are with you and your wife. Amy Home Page: "http://members.tripod.com/TheVanguard"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Project A.L.P From: Erol Erkmen <andromeda1@turk.net> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:35:56 +0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:10:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Project A.L.P PROJECT A.L.P Anomalous Luminous Phenomena Maybe you can save a life - belki sizde bir hayat kurtarabilirsiniz. Please join - ltfen katln Earthquakes and UFOs My friends and I who have been closely following ufology have read many abstracts dealing with the relationship between UFOs and earthquakes. This is an interesting topic that has always been in the corner of our minds. When doing research for our Black List Page, the phenomena that appear to come from other planets, we've seen that most were natural phenomena and we have partly explained them. The phenomena connecting balls of light to earthquakes seem to be separate topics. Balls of light were observed as materials or particles falling from the sky; burning and scattering light as they enter the atmosphere (please see our webpage for more info). However, this phenomenon related to earthquakes is an expression of underground movement. Many names have been given to this phenomenon since it has not yet been totally explained. Unfortunately it still does not have one common name. There was also similar confusion on our pages but the latest reports that we've received and the recent earthquake we have just lived through have shown us that we need to take another look at this subject. That's why we had to make changes in the content of our page. We would like to request from our friends who read our pages to be aware of ALP's and to report any of their observations or research on this topic to us. To have a better understanding of this phenomenon, let's combine the Tectonic Strain Theory with our own ideas and formulate our own theory. Our first inclination would be to give this phenomenon a Turkish name but, this would distance us from the rest of the world so, for the time being, we will also call it ALP (Anomalous Luminous Phenomena). The originator of this concept is Michael A. Persinger, Ph.D. from Laurentian University Sudbury, Ontario, Canada. Although it still may appear as a UFO, the ALP is being brought to light. UFOs observed in Nevsehir and the lights that have been followed all over the world are actually an indication of a paranormal event occurring underground and indicating important changes in a specific region. There are many reports that prove our theory and we will publish some of them on our pages. We all know about crystals and that there are many in nature. The quartz crystal is especially interesting as it gives off vibration in the presence of an electric current and it produces electricity when it is vibrated. It has many scientific applications due to this special feature. These crystals, when rubbed together, give off sparks/light.Sometimes there are movements at the cracks in the crust of the earth.We call these cracks fault lines (the breaking and movement of the layers of rock that forms the crust of the earth).The seismic movements on the crust rub these separate pieces together. The earthquake can continue until the fault line discharges all of its energy. Balls of light are generally formed at a time close to this very high energy discharge that is produced, with the help of crushed crystal particles if there are crystalline structures present. The formation and color of these balls of light differ due to atmospheric pressure.Balls of light can sometimes hang in the air for a long time and may move - usually soft turns and up and down movements due to changes in atmospheric pressure. The soil in Nevsehir has similar properties. Magnetic fields formed underground produced the long observed UFO's. The colors of these light balls change according to the condition of the gases in the atmosphere; for example when carbon dioxide increases they give off a blue color. If our theory is correct, when an ALP is formed, seismic movements can also be observed in that region. You can find many examples (ALP video record 1.5Mb) in our FORUM area if you search the archives. But the latest example is here. A verification report (please click) and an effective proof: EARTHQUAKE! Another example is the ALP observed in Sefakoy and the earthquake that followed. We will continue to collect information about ALP's whenever possible. We believe that serious research about this phenomenon will result in a decrease in the number of deaths resulting from earthquakes by providing an early warning signal. From all our friends who read our pages, we request that you remain open and aware to the presence of ALP's and report any unusual observation to us TUVPO Turkish UFO and Paranormal Org. http://tuvpoorg.cjb.net/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:27:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 09:00:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:34:39 -0500 >Damn! Great jealousy here. I've been trolling around the UFO >field now for nigh on thirty years. I'm also a keen amateur >astronomer with thousands of hours in general skywatching and >behind a scope. In all those years, I've never seen a darn thing >I couldn't explain conventionally. >Maybe I'm just not able to move to "the next level of >awareness." Ya know, Brian, almost anything can be explained "conventionally" but whether or not the explanation is accurate is another matter. For example, some people claim a UFO crashed in a field near Roswell, New Mexico. Our esteemed government/military explained it all away as a weather balloon and the alleged bodies that may have been found as "crash dummies". To the government/military this was a "conventional" explanation accepted by many. However, it is not a "conventional" explanation for others. In fact, our government/military has come up with hundreds of "conventional" explanations for most UFO sightings yet there are those who _still_ believe UFOs exist. I, myself, once found "conventional" explanations for many of the sightings and abduction reports I received when I was president of a UFO organization. Unfortunately, the more cases I investigated, the more I realized not everything has a "conventional" explanation. True, some things _can_ be explained conventionally but there are some things that cannot. I've investigated cases that I was certain had normal, conventional explanations only to reverse this opinion when I carefully examined the evidence and reviewed witness testimony - over and over. I learned, the hard way, that assigning "conventional" explanations too quickly can be a serious mistake. Prior to having witnessed many phenomena myself, I would have dismissed them outright had someone else told me they had witnessed the same thing. For example, in 1980, I saw 5 disk-shaped objects fly low overhead in formation. In 1993, I saw 4 wingless, soundless objects fly directly over DFW Airport (Texas) that suddenly merged into one object and flew off to the southwest (in broad daylight). And in 1997, I saw a huge, crescent moon-like object hovering in a field behind my house that I thought _was_ the moon until it began opening and closing (twice) then disappeared (no clouds, visibility unlimited). The same or similar object was also witnessed by two other people when it appeared 106 miles to the south about 5 minutes after it disappeared from my location. They saw the same thing I did AND saw two cigar-shaped objects go into the larger object then it descended into the field below. Some people would say we misidentified the Moon but the Moon was already setting below the horizon. Oh, and about 2 months ago I saw three bright red lights come out of an object with three white lights I _thought_ was a plane and both flew off in different directions. (My kids and I have seen more but I won't get into that.) Being a healthy skeptic I can find all kinds of "conventional" explanations for these sightings and believe me, I've come up with many. However, I _know_ what I saw and no matter how many "conventional" explanations I or anyone else may come up with, nothing even comes close to providing an accurate explanation for everything. And through my research and investigations I have learned, above all, to keep my mind open and be very, VERY careful about accepting "conventional" explanations too quickly or dismissing any sighting or claim without careful and thorough investigation. Through my research - inspired by my own sightings and the sightings of others - I have learned that some, perhaps many, of the things people dismissed with conventional explanations were indeed genuine UFOs. Even you, Brian, may have witnessed dozens of genuine, unexplained, bona fide UFOs and never even knew it. It is quite possible you and thousands, millions? of people have seen many UFOs and other phenomena and did not realize what was happening. Next you are going to ask me to provide evidence to support my claims and I will - soon. I am currently finishing an article based on 3 years of research that will be released publicly. I don't know why I and many others have come to witness many incredible events. I don't know why some people see UFOs while others watch, wait and never see anything (or do not recognize what they see). Not all claims of UFO sightings are genuine and some DO have conventional explanations. But above all, we must remain constantly aware of the high strangeness of phenomena and never jump to conclusions or conventional explanations without careful and thorough investigation. Even then, we must never assume we can explain anything "conventionally" in a universe and reality that may be quite _un_conventional. ;> Amy Home Page: "http://members.tripod.com/TheVanguard"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 6 Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 01:36:06 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 09:07:45 -0400 Subject: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 NICK POPE�S WEIRD WORLD SEPTEMBER 1999 Hot Gossip UK www.hotgossip.co.uk UFOs, alien abductions, crop circles, animal mutilations, the paranormal. In short, anything weird and wonderful from all around the world. If it goes on, it goes in. This is the column that mixes serious research, breaking news and a few light-hearted items for good measure. Yes, this is a gossip magazine, but there�s more hard data in here than in many of the self-produced UFO �magazines� circulating on-line. And to critics of this column who get hung up on the word �gossip�, check out your dictionaries, because there�s more than one definition of the word gossip: as far as this column is concerned, we�re talking unconstrained and topical writing, not groundless rumours. Check it out! One other point. Although I write for this magazine (and produce another column - London Calling - which can be accessed at www.ufocity.com) I�m not on-line myself. So I can�t respond to any Internet messages, open letters etc unless an address for snail mail is included. I really do try and reply to all serious requests for information, so if your communication is motivated by a genuine interest in my research - as opposed to attempts to have a dig at me, score points or generate publicity for yourself - you will get a reply. Total Eclipse It was cloudy, we didn�t see the sun, we didn�t see the corona and we didn�t see the shadow wall rushing across the ground at around 1500 mph. Were we disappointed? No way! I was one of the many people who travelled to the South West, in order to experience the total eclipse visible from parts of Devon and Cornwall, as opposed to the partial eclipse visible from London and much of the rest of the country. Michle and I travelled down to stay with my Dad and my stepmum, travelling several days before the eclipse to avoid the anticipated chaos on the roads. After a pleasant few day�s break we drove over to Wrangaton to stay with Seb and Laura (my brother and his wife), arriving the evening before the big day. On the day of the eclipse (11 August) people started arriving at around 9am, by which time - despite some earlier sun - it had clouded over. There were around a dozen of us, and we decided to climb nearby Ugborough Beacon, on the fringes of Dartmoor. It took us about an hour, and when we arrived at the top, there were around two or three hundred other people up there. We could see hundreds of people gathered on top of all the nearby hills. There was a great atmosphere, and although everybody had their eclipse viewers, pinhole cameras etc, the sun was hidden behind a solid wall of cloud. The extraordinary thing was just how quickly it went dark. Totality hit us at around 11.13am, but the light didn�t really start to fade noticeably until about two minutes prior to that. But it was the final moments before totality that were truly awesome, as the light faded from normal, dim, overcast levels to darkness in around thirty seconds.The temperature plummeted in a similarly dramatic fashion. The reaction from people varied: there were gasps of amazement as darkness descended in seconds; some people applauded and a few cheered. Others watched in reverential silence. Jared (Seb and Laura�s three year old son) was a little frightened, although we soon cheered him up. There were several New Age types present (it was just like the Eastenders eclipse special!), one of whom had a drum which he used subtly and cleverly, and another of whom twirled a device around in the wind to produce an eerie moaning sound. The flashbulbs of thousands of cameras could be seen on nearby hills, and the orange streetlights from Plymouth all came on. Where we were, totality lasted little more than one minute and thirty seconds, and it seemed to be over in an instant. Afterwards, my brother opened a bottle of champagne, and we passed it around our group. I saw one or two other people (not in our group!) smoking � er � herbal cigarettes. There was really no need: Mother Nature had given us the biggest natural high on the face of the planet. Several people were so overcome with emotion that they were crying. Somebody in our group had a bag of Runes so we each drew one and she interpreted them for us. So, were there any UFOs seen during the eclipse? Not really. A few people in the path of totality might have seen Venus if they were lucky enough to have a break in the cloud; and there were numerous aircraft, helicopters and hot air balloons which would suddenly have been visible when it got dark. But that was it, really. Back to our own story, our post-eclipse BBQ/party lasted until about 1am, and we all went to bed tired but happy. When we got back to London, several people told us that it had gone �quite dark� there, and had commiserated with us for spending all that time and money, only to have it ruined by cloud. We�ve tried to explain that the cloud didn�t stop day turning into night within thirty seconds, but there really aren�t the words. We tried �awesome�, but it really doesn�t do the event justice. The only thing that�s convinced people we saw something mind-blowingly wonderful is the fact that we�re talking about going to Zimbabwe for the next total eclipse on 21 June 2001. It�s only when people realise we�re serious about it that they realise just how truly amazing an event they missed by not seeing the eclipse from the path of totality. NIDS Animal Mutilation Report For those people interested in the disturbing cattle mutilation phenomenon, check out the extraordinarily detailed June 1999 report issued by the National Institute of Discovery Science. The report details research carried out into the unexplained death of a cow at a ranch in Utah in October 1998. Check out www.accessnv.com/nids for details. The Big Conference Please don�t forget that the biggest and best UFO conference of the year is fast approaching, and is to be held in Leeds on 17, 18 and 19 September. The venue is the Conference Auditorium at the University of Leeds, and speakers include Tim Good, Nick Redfern, Michael Hesemann and from America, Dr Roger Leir - a physician who claims to have retrieved several implants from abductees. I�ll also be giving a talk, and will be discussing the state of abduction research in the UK, and examining the apparent differences between UK and US reports. I�ll also have a few interesting revelations to make, but that�s another story. Check out the new and improved UFO Magazine website at www.ufomag.co.uk for full details of speakers, and information on how to order tickets. Cosmic Crashes Several people have asked me to elaborate on why I�m so sceptical about the UFO crashes that ufologist Nick Redfern writes about in his latest book, Cosmic Crashes. My objections are twofold. Firstly, the lack of firsthand witnesses prepared to speak out on the record, using their real names. Now, conspiracy theorists will say that this is because they�re fearful of what action a vengeful government will take, and that such people are worried about their safety, the safety of their families, or the security of their pensions. Of course, democratic, western governments don�t really behave like that, outside of cheap spy novels. But I�ll never convince conspiracy theorists of that, so I won�t bother. A more interesting problem is the lack of a paper trail. Nick Redfern�s first book, A Covert Agenda, revolved around incidents that he could verify through official UFO documents, obtained from the Public Record Office. Some of these documents were formerly classified at the level of Secret. I�ve seen all these PRO documents, together with files that civilian researchers will almost certainly never get to see. But when it comes to trying to find a paper trail to validate any UFO crashes in Britain, there�s nothing. And yet, there would be more things to record with a crash, because there would be so many analyses to produce (and because they�d be technical, they�d need to be properly recorded). Every detail would have to be recorded, and many different specialists would need to be brought in, covering everything from metallurgy, aerodynamics, propulsion, avionics and much more besides. So many people, so many scientific studies, and yet not a hint of a paper trail - not just at the PRO, but in the files ufologists haven�t seen. I�ve been in Government for fourteen years, and whatever you might argue about Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI) I�m afraid that doesn�t make any sense. Operation Thunderchild Although the official publication date of my novel, Operation Thunderchild, is 4 October, copies may well get into the shops during September. I'll also be doing quite a lot of media work late in September and early October - so look out for me on TV! I'll be saying more about Operation Thunderchild in next months column, but I can confidently predict that this novel (a techno thriller with an alien theme) is going to be extremely controversial. Nick Pope September 1999 Ed�s Note: Nick Pope�s two books, Open Skies, Closed Minds and The Uninvited, are available from all good bookshops. Simon & Schuster are his UK publishers, while The Overlook Press publish his books in America. Nick�s debut novel, Operation Thunder Child, will be published in October by Simon & Schuster.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds and Bull.... From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:51:13 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 07:55:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds and Bull.... >Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:27:34 -0500 >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Of Poop, Gas, Birds And Bull... >>Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:34:39 -0500 >>Damn! Great jealousy here. I've been trolling around the UFO >>field now for nigh on thirty years. I'm also a keen amateur >>astronomer with thousands of hours in general skywatching and >>behind a scope. In all those years, I've never seen a darn thing >>I couldn't explain conventionally. >>Maybe I'm just not able to move to "the next level of >>awareness." >Ya know, Brian, almost anything can be explained >"conventionally" but whether or not the explanation is accurate >is another matter. For example, some people claim a UFO crashed >in a field near Roswell, New Mexico. Our esteemed >government/military explained it all away as a weather balloon >and the alleged bodies that may have been found as "crash >dummies". To the government/military this was a "conventional" >explanation accepted by many. However, it is not a >"conventional" explanation for others. In fact, our >government/military has come up with hundreds of "conventional" >explanations for most UFO sightings yet there are those who >_still_ believe UFOs exist. ><Huge Snip> >I don't know why I and many others have come to witness many >incredible events. I don't know why some people see UFOs while >others watch, wait and never see anything (or do not recognize >what they see). Not all claims of UFO sightings are genuine and >some DO have conventional explanations. But above all, we must >remain constantly aware of the high strangeness of phenomena and >never jump to conclusions or conventional explanations without >careful and thorough investigation. Even then, we must never >assume we can explain anything "conventionally" in a universe >and reality that may be quite _un_conventional. Dear Docca Kanappy, Amy, Insectoids, Poopers et Al, specially you, Al... I live in a condo community consisting of 5 mid rise buildings, the contents of which are 500 families, including resident maintenance people. That is fairly well over 1000 people. Of these 500 units, each has a terrace which is set into the building, so that the stucco exterior is smooth and uninterrupted. Unfortunately, this does little for anyone's astronomy or ham radio habit. However the views are not bad discounting Venus, Swamp Gas (aint no swamps her-a-bouts) and DX on 160 meters. Of these 500 terraces, during the summer months, the occupation rate of these terraces is better than 70%. Being on the board of directors of this condo, I know most of the people. And since a sighting last year of an anomalous object, I have spoken to 80% of the people here to ask if they saw anything anomalous last September. A year later...... Five people saw a very large aircraft, replete with engine noise and flashing lights, the same lights I saw on a triangular shaped object, and even described the unique strobes on the thingy (strange red and weird blue) and each one who saw something said that it was a huge plane and moving "real slow!" When I asked why it was they recalled seeing it, since this was about a year ago, they _each_ told me it was because they heard some jerk screaming for his wife to come out on the terrace and "Come out and look at this thing in the sky, will ya!" or something like that. Of course, the "jerk" was me. As for the sound of engines, there were planes approaching the airport (three, as it took a long time for this thing to move very far and was heading away form any airport, above the approach altitude). So to answer the questions postulated, some see what's there and recognize it as something normal and some see something, realize it aint normal and try to cypher the numbers and come up with what is commonly referred to as a UFT, an Unidentifiable Flying Thingy. Which is why I make Gripple. Many, if not most, folks tend not to be terribly observant. This may be a cultural thing with us humans. It is however, most unusual with the recent spate of space monster movies. One would imagine that people should be seeing all manner of stuff in the skies. "Look, up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane. NO! It's (pregnant dialog pause and cue the Superman music here) _Superman_" But they don't as a rule. Not because there is nothing there to see, there is much to see, but rather, because people do not really expect to see anything. Perhaps this is because the movie industry, even in some serious work (if one can call 99% of what is placed on celluloid, "serious") actually _spoof_ everything they present merely by virtue of showing it in a theater....this alone, makes it a spoof. And no one in their right mind would believe such nonsense. It's purely _entertainment_! Except of course, the little neighbor boy, who thinks that bullets don't hurt and shoot'em ups is cool... Take me and my generation, as an example. The Three Stooges liked to gauge each others' eyes, poke fingers in various sensitive body parts, hit heads with ball peen hammers, etc. And for some strange reason, we kids never did that. But kids today, think it's cool to practice backyard wrestling, fondle daddy's .357 and, use it on the little girl next door. I used to like to see pink clouds whenever we used our .270's on rats in the town dump. But the neighbor's kid's head? Well, seems to me I've just explained the reason for none of us agreeing on anything. Oh, and there is one more ... this is great, wait'll yous hear this one. Westchester County contains among the biggest, richest (not me folks) and most well known personalities on the planet outside of Hollywood. The one thing people here don't appreciate is cellular antennas in their towns or farms in their neighborhoods. They've negotiated the antennas with the various services here. But the one thing they've not been able to stop is that new property in Chappaqua that will be turned into a pig farm this year. Boy is that gonna screw up property values! J. Jaime Gesundt
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 UFO Desk From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 16:57:25 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 07:58:01 -0400 Subject: UFO Desk UFO Desk has moved. It can now be found at: www.anomalies.net/~ufodesk I wish to thank Olav Phillips for inviting UFO Desk to reside at anomalies.net UFO Desk can now boast not only some of the strangest stories on net, but also now we got streaming audio! No more long downloads. So please come by and check us out. Again, much thanks goes to Olav Phillips of anomalies.net Come by, hang out, listen to some good radio, sign the guestbook, and click a few banners! Much thanks. Paul Williams Execuitve Producer UFO Desk (http://www.anomalies.net/~ufodesk) WBAI Radio 99.5 FM (http://www.wbaifree.org) mailto:paulw@escape.com ICQ # 32519151
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Conventional Explanation? From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:07:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 08:00:51 -0400 Subject: Conventional Explanation? I first started to believe in ufo's, no I take that back, I first knew there were other cultures out 'there' when I was bout 7 or 8 and we learned there were people who looked different from me and my friends and community who dressed differently and ate different foods, and had different ways of doing things right here on our own planet, in school. It was called social studies. But for all my interest and appetite for the experiences of others, and books, over the years, I never knowingly saw anything anomolous in the sky - at least that I was aware of. Finally in November of 96 I stepped out onto the porch to take my dog for a walk and was about to step off the porch when a huge bright goldish light high over one of the barns caught my eye. Within seconds, as I froze and my chin hit the ground, it broke into four smaller lights, along a horizontal line, then all moved up in unison, then disappeared. WOW, my first sighting! Then a few months later, I saw two such lights driving into the city. Since there were planes in the sky too, I can assure anyone that these were too far apart to be plane headlights and too big to be any kind of known craft. These ones disappeared and later I learned thre were quite a few such sightings as my second one at least, in the area, but all reported to a french language radio program on the other side of the Ottawa River. We English speaking people had no such resource to report our sightings to and it was happenchance I learned I was not the only one. But while I waited some four decades to have my first sighting, I saw something this past Thursday night which makes me wonder how often all of us have seen something, but thought nothing of it. If you look long and hard at a star which is twinkling (planets don't usually), your eyes can play tricks on you I am told and it will appear to change colour from white. I have often had that experience. This is weird, but I was at a friend's cottage with a bunch of other women when I got this feeling to go out and look up inthe sky. I resisted it, and finally had a chance to break away without it looking suspecious. I searched the sky for a few minutes before my eyes rested onthis one 'star' that seemed to have a red light that flickered on and off, very slowly on the top. And there seemed to be a lower placed green light. Considering it was the size of any other star, and generally at the saem angel of height as most stars would be at least, even a star clearly below it some distance, it probably sounds a bit hard to believe that I can say red ontop and green below, but it seemed to me to be very obvious. To check it out, I called two other women to come out. I pointed out the star and asked them what they saw, adding nothing about what I saw. Both soon said it seemed to have a red light that flashed on top, slowly. Fine, but then that could be us all staring at it. Then after a few seconds of quiet as we watched, we all spoke out at the same time - we had all seen teh red flash at the same time! Now our eyes are not in sync! And all agreed about the green, and I was not the first to mention it. Now, this 'star' was not moving, so normally I would have seen it, and discredited any thoughts of it being a ufo. But this time I had two others And I wondered, how many of us have seen just such a 'star' and ignored it just because it didn't bounce around in the sky or fly off or disappear!??? There has been too much low cloud to check if it is still in the same spot in the last few nights. I will check it again tonight. But if memory serves me right, I have noticed a star in the same position before. But usually discounted it because that is a flight path into the Ottawa airport. But planes may not appear to move when coming directly at you, so if I wait, I soon realize they are moving and its a plane because its coming closer. We waited on this one the other day, and it never came closer. It remained stationed where it was. Even I can tell you the rational explanation, but maybe the rational explanation isn't the real one! Lesley
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Read This Post - It Is Truth Reviled From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:41:43 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 08:09:39 -0400 Subject: Read This Post - It Is Truth Reviled What prompted this short post is a phone call I just received from an irate "researcher" of great fame. Seems I referred to (X) in a post not terribly long ago, and I implied that he (or she, to confuse youse) was not a true researcher because he (or she) had no degree in UFO research ... in factoid, didn't even have a Ph.D.! Can you imagine that? Anyway, he/she spent exactly (I timed the bastard) six minutes and forty-two seconds (according to my Oregon Scientific WWV clock) blasting me for even _posting_ on UpDdates. "You are not a researcher, you are a nobody, a bum, a boil on the ass of this (deleted) subject. Everybody thinks you are a jerk." "Not only that, but you are _not_ funny. Nothing you say is amusing. It merely shows that you are a liar, and as for portfolio, you don't even know the meaning of the word ... and furthermore..... if you think for even a micro second that any of us believe your lies about triangles and abductions, then you _are_ crazy... really crazy ... blah, blah, blah, etc." I sat here at my desk wondering if maybe it was my deodorant. Truth be known, I never did mention this person's name, nor did I imply to whom it was I was referring. The researcher merely assumed that I was referring to him (or her). I pointed this out to the caller, and proceeded to locate the file in my computer, and emailed it to him (her) on the spot. He/she read my post, which Docca Kanappy published and when the person received it he (or she) proceeded to sputter and stutter, finally wound up, not apologizing, mind you, but saying, and this is a quote: "Well, I don't take back anything I said about you, you (deleted) bastard, but I do occasionally laugh a little. If nothing else, you are a funny dude. (Note: this next statement is the best thing I have ever enjoyed with my clothes on....) And sometimes you make me think my opinions over a little more than I would... but truth never stopped me from writing my books." I swear to the poor entity that got me that one time I had an Irritable Bowel Attack, that this is what this jerk said. To this researcher who shall remain nameless in more ways than one, I confer the highest honor I can, to a maroon.... The Gesundt's Fickle Middle Pickled Finger of Horse Hockey award. It comes with a Doctor of Silly Fossify in bullshit, which is his (or her) specialty. Congratulations Dr. (deleted). No one has ever uttered more truth than that which you just did. No, I won't ever tell ANYONE who you are, but trust me on this, I just took every one of your books and brought them out to my wood pile, where they will proceed to rot before my very eyes. No, not because of what you said, but because of what you represent. And besides, I had fully intended to donate them to the flat ass society next week. Covered of course, with brown paper bag book covers, hand made. Not to protect them from the elements, but rather, to avoid any one seeing me holding them in my hands. Some jerk might think I read them. I did. But God will forgive me. Thankfully, not all are like this person. And in defense of his/her angst, it may just have been a twisting of meaning based on anger for me. But somehow, I just don't think so. Truth is somehow revealed in the most innocent of ways.... and the most vicious. Jim Mortellaro
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 16:30:22 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 09:35:03 -0400 Subject: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' To Mr. Jerome Clark; They say if it acts like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it must be a duck. With that old saying in mind, I would like to add your name as the newest member of 'the old boys club.' That club consists of Stan Friedman, Budd Hopkins, Walt Andrus, Bruce Macabbee and yourself. I read your ridiculous comments about Bruce Macabbee in a recent message that you had sent. I quote your comments where you state: "I have much respect for Bruce Macabbee's intelligence, knowledge and ability." Obviously, you have not been in touch with current ufology for the past 10-years. Maybe this is because you are so absorbed with the history of ufology that you haven't had time to pay attention to what is going on in ufology for the last 10 or 15-years. I find your statement to be ludicrous, that Bruce Macabbee has displayed intelligence, knowledge or ability in the field of ufology in the last 10 or 15-years. It is obvious to me that the 'Old Boys Club' [that you are included in] is alive and well. And while you may have your differences with Walt Andrus, please direct me to the IUR Journal where you challenge Walt Andrus for his ludicrous leadership in the Ed Walters/Gulf Breeze scenario. Please send me that journal and I will happily pay for it. It is obvious to me that no one in this 'Club' is going to take a critical look at the other person's work, and if they find anything unsatisfactory there, they will not make any public comments against that person's work. Jerome Clark, you state in your letter that if I would argue photographic analysis with Bruce Macabbee that I would lose. Obviously I would lose� I have never said that I was an expert in photographic analysis. That is why I have surrounded myself with professionals in all types of fields related to ufology. [Please see my message to Roger Evans, where I list all the experts I surround myself with to do a proper investigative job in the field of ufology]. However, William G. Hyzer and his son James are top-notch photoanalysts. When Bruce Macabbee was confronted by the Hyzer's, it became perfectly clear that Macabbee does not, I repeat� NOT have the photographic analysis ability that many of us were led to believe. Regarding the issue of 'self-appointed' leaders of ufology, you obviously are demanding complete accuracy in everything I have to say. However, let's take a look at your latest book, on pages 319 to 325 concerning the Casey County abduction case. There, four to five glaring errors are apparent. Is that very precise and accurate? Couldn't you have taken the time to spend 15-minutes and call one of the two lead investigators on that case and save yourself the embarrassment of these glaring errors that you made in trying to report this 1976 incident? The two lead investigators spent over two years investigating the Casey County [Kentucky] abduction, and still today remain 'in touch' with the two remaining women, Mona Stafford and Louise Smith. Those two investigators are Peggy Black [my wife], and myself. When I made my statement about the Whitley Strieber show being seen on national TV with no concern whether it was authentic or not, and that the general public could not rely on nation TV to give them true answers to cases, you stated in your response: "I am confused. What does this have to do with ufology?" What is has to do with ufology, Jerome Clark, is the following: you are the head of one of the two largest UFO organizations in the country. I am sure that most of your $25.00 per year contributions are given not by UFOlogists, but by the general public. So in my opinion, sir, if I were the head of one of the two largest UFO organizations, then I would have a duty to the subscribers and general public to evaluate nationally known issues and other cases where books are written. There is a responsibility that you certainly don't accept in trying to evaluate the Whitley Strieber story. Way back when Communion and Transformation were on the shelves, you should have had an investigator looking into that case. Certainly Strieber may not have cooperated with you, but at least the obligation was yours to investigate that case so that you could assert whether or not there was any validity to the claims. You also should have offered Strieber and his wife, as I recently did, to take a polygraph test. His lack of response or cooperation would be the basis of your report: you tried to investigate the case and dealt with his refusal to acknowledge you or cooperate with you. But at least your subscribers would recognize that the case would be without merit. But you didn't do that. I also find your response about the Gulf Breeze case to be just as ludicrous. Again, I quote: "Like you, I have deep doubts about the core claims of the Gulf Breeze episode." That's an embarrassing statement for a man who has been around ufology for over 30-years. Your comments are also embarrassing considering you are the head of one of the two largest UFO organizations in the country. And that is the only statement after 12-years since the case was given attention that you could make regarding Gulf Breeze? It was your responsibility to your subscribers and general public to investigate the Gulf Breeze case. Certainly Robert Boyd, who I have talked to several times, was down there in the beginning. He is an intelligent person and investigator [dismissed by MUFON], but that shouldn't have prevented you from sending someone else down to talk to all the pertinent figures in the Gulf Breeze episode as things progressed. You could have still talked with, as I did, Sarah Menzer, you could have talked with Ronald Louden [who did the P.S.A. test for Walters], you could have talked with the townspeople or the mayor, or any number of people in Gulf Breeze concerning situation. But all you can say after 12-years of Gulf Breeze is that you have doubts about the claims. In my opinion, that was your responsibility to evaluate any and all major cases which comes to the attention of the TV or radio media, and there are not that many. Your response in an earlier letter about Whitley Strieber was: "You didn't think there was substance to the case, so why bother?" The reason to bother, Jerome Clark, is because the general public relies on you and other leaders of ufology to let them know what books they should buy and what claims they should consider. Thanks to yours and Walt Adrus' ineptness in evaluating the Whitley Strieber case, he is now on Art Bell on a regular basis, has his own program on nationally TV, has written 5 or 6 books� and during this time, I have never seen you or Walt Andrus conduct a thorough investigation of his claims and write up your conclusions! Consequently, Strieber is now a spokesperson for ufology. He has the airwaves of Art Bell, even as co-host for awhile. His case should have been dealt with in '86 or '87, thereby eliminating him from all this publicity he receives. But not only have you and Walt Andrus not addressed this situation, Walt Andrus invites him to their symposiums! I would like to drop the phrase 'Self-Proclaimed Leader's of ufology.' While most people, I'm sure, undertand exactly what I meant, for those such as Jerome Clark and his friends that do not understand, I will change that phrase to 'High-Profile people in the field of ufology.' With that in mind, I feel there are six-people in the field who, in the past 10 to 15-years, have not been productive in the UFO field. Three of those people, Walt Andrus, Bruce Macabbee and Budd Hopkins, have been total embarrassments to the field of ufology. The other three are Stanton Friedman, Kevin Randle, and Linda Moulton Howe, and in the opinion of this writer, five of the six do not have a clue how to truly investigate a UFO case. Four of these six people do not even believe in the use of a polygraph test in the investigation of a UFO case. While the polygraph is certainly not a fool-proof means of investigation, when such a test is done by an expert of 20-years of experience [using the Utah system computer aided] its accuracy is about 94%. And while not being admissible as evidence in court, it is routinely used throughout the country by law enforcement agencies. In 'missing children' cases, the police departments will use polygraph tests quite extensively to interview family members. This method is taken seriously by law enforcement personnel. For four out of six of the High-Profile people in ufology to not consider the polygraph test in the course of their nationally-known cases, their ineptness as investigators and researchers is clearly demonstrated. Sometimes the refusal of a subject to take a polygraph test would seem to give the UFO researcher a good idea whether the person is telling the truth or not. In cases of both Whitley Strieber and Ed Walters, two nationally prominent claims, both gentlemen have refused to take third-party properly sponsored polygraph tests. Finally, Jerome Clark, you stated that you have probably been in this field longer than I have. According to my math, you have been researching, but not necessarily investigating, UFOs for approximately 35-years. I, on the other hand, have been researching and investigating UFOs for 42-years. In your letter where you said that you had a hard time taking me seriously, let me say as the senior investigator, Jerome Clark, that the question should be: do I want to take anything *you* have to say seriously? So far, in all your ranting and raving concerning my comments about your buddies in ufology, I can see no reason to take anything you have to say seriously. I would like to believe that my 7-years of additional experience in ufology has given me the added maturity necessary to reject blanket approval to any investigator in ufology, even personal friends. I have discontinued this stupid practice some 40-years ago. Sincerely, Jerry Black 6276 Taylor Pike Blanchester, Ohio 45107 (513)625-2613
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Roger Evans' Open Letter To Jerry Black From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 16:48:25 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:00:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Roger Evans' Open Letter To Jerry Black >From: Roger Evans <moviestuff@cyberjunkie.com> >Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 20:44:21 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Roger Evans' open letter to Jerry Black >Re: Roger Evans' open letter to Jerry Black >>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 07:05:23 PDT >>Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:19:47 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Jerry Black's Open Letter to Friedman >Previously, Jerry Black proclaimed: ><snip> >>We have >>proven conclusively through the work of Mr. William G. Hyzer >>[and his son James] that photograph #19, the famous road-shot, >>is without question, a double exposure. >Jerry, >For the record, I'd like you to provide specific technical >details of just how Mr. Hyzer and son proved conclusively that >photograph #19 (or any photo, for that matter) is a double >exposure. >You'll excuse my somewhat terse tone, but I have very little >room for people that pontificate about something that they know >little or nothing about. Since you have recently made quite the >stink about the same thing in the world of ufology, then you'll >understand my disdain that you consider yourself a "self >appointed expert" on the subject of photographic techniques or, >at the very least, on the subject of photograph #19 and its >validity. >Make no mistake; this posting is neither in support of nor >against the validity of photograph #19. It is a fundamental >examination of whether or not you practice what you preach. How >can you, Jerry Black, prove that photograph #19 is a double >exposure? >I know the answer. Do you? Mr. Evans, let me first state the comments I made in my letter to Stanton Friedman concerning photograph #19. We have proven conclusively, through the work of William G. Hyzer [and his son James], that photograph #19, the famous roadshot, is a double exposure - without question. I am tired of people taking literally everything I say. When I said 'we have,' I meant myself, Rex Salisberry, Barbara Becker and Zan Overall, the re-investigating team that worked on the Ed Walters/Gulf Breeze case, have proven conclusively [through Mr. William G. Hyzer] that photograph #19 was a hoax. I did not mean to imply that we are photographic analysis experts. The experts are William G. Hyzer and his son James. Even Jerome Clark has said in his letter that I could not match photographic analysis ability with Bruce Maccabee. I challenge anyone to produce information from my website where I have claimed to be a photographic analysis expert. To the contrary, I am the one who has surrounded himself with experts in all types of fields to help me in my UFO investigative work. I have a soil-sample expert here in Cincinnati that I use whenever anyone claims that a UFO has landed or a circle of depressed grass is found on their property. I have a lab in Dayton, Ohio that will analyze any piece of material that I bring them - if a person claims to have a piece of a UFO or an implant, this lab will analyze that material for me. I have a psychologist who works out of one of the major hospitals here in Cincinnati that I have met on three occasions, who has agreed to work with anyone I bring to him claiming a UFO experience. I also have a photographic analysis lab on the East Coast that will analyze any photo or video that I present to them. I am still hopeful that William G. Hyzer, if the case were to ever arise, would do further photo analysis if necessary. I also have a private investigator that will work with me on verifying identification of persons various claimants. I also have two polygraph experts at my disposal: Hugh Jones from the Gulf Breeze area, and Cy Gilson from Arizona. I have tried to surround myself with these professionals so I can utilize their services when needed. I have never, at any time, claimed to be an expert in any of these fields. That is why I have retained the services of these professionals. Mr. Evans, if you would like specific technical details of how William G. Hyzer had proved conclusively that Photograph #19 was a hoax, then I would suggest that you contact the Mutual UFO Network, and have them supply you with their journal which contains Mr. Hyzer's final report on the issue. You will find all the technical information needed. However, Bruce Maccabee and Jeff Sainio, claiming to be photoanalysts, claimed that Mr. Hyzer's analysis is in error. They claim that because Ed Walter's pickup truck was loaded with building bricks, that the hood of the truck was titled in such a position that there would be no reflection of the UFO from the hood of the truck like Hyzer had claimed. They also contend that there is luminosity coming down the road towards the truck from the light shining on the pavement. Mr. Hyzer has claimed that there is no luminosity in his analysis of the first-generation photograph coming down the road toward the truck, from the light shining off the pavement. This means that the UFO was not on the roadway when that shot of the roadway was taken. Here is what you need to decide: Hyzer had stated to me on the telephone that no matter how many bricks were on the back of the truck, or however dirty or dented the hood was, there SHOULD have been a reflection of the UFO seen on the hood of the truck. Mr. Hyzer also claims, from review of his first- generation copy, that there is no luminosity coming down the road from the light shining on the pavement. Jeff Sainio has told me on the telephone, using the same first-generation copy which Hyzer was given, that he can see -with the naked eye- the luminosity going down the road. So you, Mr. Evans, will have to judge: why would Hyzer, with all his professional equipment, see no luminosity while Sainio would claim that with the naked eye and same picture, see luminosity coming down the road? I invite you to refer to my website, and address the page which relates to the experience and background of William G. Hyzer. If you choose, after that, to believe Jeff Sainio and Bruce Maccabee over William G. Hyzer and his son James, that is your option. I, however, believe William G. and James Hyzer's reputations are impeccable, and when you take a close look at all the other evidence in the Gulf Breeze case, you will find no evidence whatsoever that supports the contention that Ed Walters had taken photographs of an alien spacecraft. As I have done with many other people -and continue to do- I invite you, Mr. Evans, to call me. I will hang up and call you back at my expense, and will be happy to discuss any and all portions of the Gulf Breeze case with you. I am one of the few people, I am told, who has their name, address and phone number posted on the internet, so that I can be contacted at anytime they wish to discuss anything I comment upon. I am hoping you will do so. Sincerely, Jerry Black 6276 Taylor Pike Blanchester, Ohio 45107 (513)625-2613 blackhole60@hotmail.com
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration'? From: Nancy Davidson <nld1@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:53:20 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:13:57 -0400 Subject: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration'? Hi, Has anybody read Ingo Swann's book on Pentration. If they have, what is their opinion on the book and on Ingo Swann.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 22:55:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:16:24 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:31:04 EDT >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net <snip> >While we're on the topic of the radar target, I have argued in >the past that one of the sticks in the photos was 5 feet long, >whereas the longest stick on a Mogul-style radar target was 4 >feet, and witnesses spoke of beams being no longer than 3 feet. >When the Air Force had the photos analyzed in 1994 by the CIA, >the working schematic diagram of the various sticks showed the >long stick being cropped and subsequently reported as being only >3 feet long. I shouted foul. The photo evidence was being >altered. >When Dennis Stacy had a look at the particular stick and diagram >that I was discussing, his take on it was that the stick was >broken into two pieces with some foil sheathing in between which >gave it the appearance of being a single, longer stick. >I have since obtained a high-quality blow-up of that photo from >the Univ. of Texas, Arlington, and I now agree (I choke as I say >this) with Dennis' assessment. Apologies are in order also to >the Air Force, whom I accused of tampering with this evidence. >Too bad I can't say the say that about the rest of their report. <snip> >David Rudiak Dear David, Choke not! At least on my behalf. It takes courage for anyone to admit a mistake or error of judgment about anything. Trust me! So you're to be applauded for being so forthright. May I behave likewise in a similar situation. Meanwhile, I gloat not, although I obviously disagree with your reading of Roswell. Sincerely, Dennis Stacy http://www.anomalist.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 The 36th Annual National UFO Conference From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 07:29:32 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:25:34 -0400 Subject: The 36th Annual National UFO Conference Source: San Antonio Express-News, Saturday, Sep 4,1999, http://www.expressnews.com:80/pantheon/news-bus/metro/0505bufos_0905nz.shtml Stig *** UFO enthusiasts scheduled to disembark at local hotel By Robert Kolarik Express-News Staff Writer ** The ABCs of UFOs will be spelled out in San Antonio later this month. The 36th annual National UFO Conference is scheduled to land here Sept. 25-26. It will be at the Seven Oaks Hotel and Conference Center at 1400 Austin Highway. "We expect up to 300 people to attend," said Dennis Stacy, the conference's local coordinator. "Basically, that's what the hall (at the hotel) will hold." The convention is national in scope, but four of the 10 scheduled speakers have South Texas ties: �Seguin resident Walt Andrus, international director of the Mutual UFO Network � a private organization dedicated to investigating aerial phenomena � plans a speech titled "The Disappearance of Frederich Valentich in Australia." �Constance Clear, a psychotherapist and author from San Antonio, will attempt to answer the question, "Abductees: Human Ambassadors or Lab Rats?" �Alamo City resident Tom Deuley will discuss "MJ-12 and the El Indio-Guerrero Crash." He's a member of the national board of directors of the Fund for UFO Research. �Whitley Strieber � a San Antonio native, author and occasional guest host of the Art Bell radio program � will speak about "Why Do We Deny It?" The conference is being hosted by The Anomalist, a journal devoted to such topics as sea serpents, memories being "transplanted" with donor organs, people vanishing into thin air and � conversely � spirits materializing in our world. "In a way, yes, I'd describe it as looking at the paranormal," said Stacy, co-publisher and co-editor of The Anomalist. "We try to look at unusual things in a normal way and normal things in an unusual way." Of course, the publication also deals with the subject of UFOs. "UFOs ... have increased in their effects on society," Stacy said. "You can go into a grocery store now and you've got � what? � alien (breakfast cereal). We look at the (UFO) issue from every aspect." Stacy said his interest in UFOs dates to his youth. "I had a UFO sighting when I was about 14 ...," he said. "My father was in the Air Force and I knew how to get ahold of the control tower. I asked if they'd had reports of anything, and they started describing what I'd seen � that other people had seen it, too." Tickets to the convention are $45 in advance or $60 at the door. To register in advance, send a check or money order for $45 to Stacy at P.O. Box 12434, San Antonio 78212. He can be reached by e-mail at dstacy@texas.net or by phone at 828-4507. Hotel rooms can be reserved by calling (800) 346-5866. * Saturday, Sep 4,1999 � 1999 San Antonio Express-News
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: [lunascan] Heads Up - Incoming From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 02:30:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:28:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [lunascan] Heads Up - Incoming >Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 03:37:58 -0400 >From: Tim Edwards <tedwards@tcia.net> >To: unascan@listbox.com <lunascan@listbox.com> >Subject: [lunascan] Heads Up - Incoming >Heads Up Everyone!!! >There has been a massive sighting, made by multiple individuals, >of 7 or 8 Unidentified Flying Objects in the Western US. More >specifically, Washington, Oregon, California, and Nevada. <snip> >7 or 8 "flaming" UFOs heading "in formation" from Northwest to >Southeast at a low altitude and at a surprisingly low speed. It >took the objects 1 1/2 to 2 minutes for the objects to traverse >from horizon to horizon. >8 UFOs "with flaming tails" traveling "in formation" from west >to east. 1 1/2 minutes to cross the sky. If anyone cares to see videotape of an identical phenomena, check out "Voyagers of the Sixth Sun" by Britt & Lee Elders in conjunction with Jaime Maussan. In it, you can view a videoclip of several slow moving (in formation, maintaining equal distance between them,) flaming, luminous, orbs that are moving painfully slowly across the videographers field of view. Great size and distance references. ie; surrounding buildings, utility poles, trees, etc.) The whole sequence lasts about 15 seconds. Amazing sighting report from out West! Thanx for the 'heads up' Tim. I look forward to further word/developments. I'm sure that -someone- out there got it all on tape or photographed it. (Thank God for Rodney King eh? <lol>) But, as evidenced by the Mexican video, truly there is nothing new under the Sun! :) Check out the Elders video! And, . . . ... watch the skies! Peace, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 New Images of Daylight ORBs & Disks From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 12:24:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:25:21 -0400 Subject: New Images of Daylight ORBs & Disks I have just received several images from Mexico of dayligt ORBS & Disks See for yourself in the September 1999 News section at UFO Folklore http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html Article is called 'More ORBS & Disks from Mexico!' Too many images to send thru the mail Dan UFO Folklore ! http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Truth Reviled - An open Letter by the Reviled From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:52:24 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:27:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Truth Reviled - An open Letter by the Reviled First, thank you for your support, moral and otherwise. I have received so many offlist emails from that one post, I cannot believe it myself. But interestingly, nearly every single one asked, "Come on Jimmy, who's the bastard? Come on, you can tell me. I'll never tell nobody!" But alas, I shall not reveal the identity of the jackass who did the dirty deed. Never. Not in a million years. Never will I tell... I just cannot. Well, maybe a hint. It's a "he" but that's it! Not another hint. Unless you send me a lotta money. Oh, say, cupla hunnert grand. I just got me a new house upstate and it needs a lotta work. Tell you what, if every innocent researcher sends me one hundred dollars each, uh. No, won't work. Aren't enough innocent researchers out there. OK, I got it. If every single researcher, innocent or otherwise, out there sends me one hunnert bucks, I will give out one clue to each one. Then you can all get together and compare notes and decide among yourselves, who the dimbulb is. Give you all an opportunity to get together on sumpin. Aint nuttin that gets researchers together better than a which hunt. Or a wizard hunt, whatever. Just one thing, I will not permit any crucifixions ... hangings, or other capital meanie punishments. Instead, we'll stop buying his or her books. Howzat? J. Jaime Gesundt
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration'? From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:39:29 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:25:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration'? >From: Nancy Davidson <nld1@ix.netcom.com> >Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:53:20 -0500 (CDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration'? >Hi, >Has anybody read Ingo Swann's book on Pentration. If they have, >what is their opinion on the book and on Ingo Swann. >Just asking the question on the book because I plan to buy it. >Thanks. >Nancy Davidson >Chicago, Illinois Ingo Swann has quite a reputation in his field. I've read the book, I can honestly say I enjoyed the read. The question of whether or how much truth is in there is up to you to decide. On a personal level, I find it very hard to accept some of the stuff. But on the other, I realize that so must it be with others who find much of what I have to say, hard to believe. Perhaps more so. What I look for is proof. As do so many others. But what I accept is merely the possibility, as proof has a way of eluding without a little flavor, eh? Meaning, I can tolerate Gripple, but Vodka? Eeek! Not even a hint of potato(e)! The one thing I always try hard to maintain, is an open mind. For there is so much of which I do not know, let alone understand. Mr. Swann is a very unique personality. I've listened to him on the Jeff Rense show on two occasions and found him (from my perspective) to be a hard guest to interview. Just a feeling. But with Jeff, well, he's so good, he'd make Fill DeGlass look good. Docca Kanappy is the same way. These guys gotta have a lotta Gripple hangin around the studio, or they could not make it in this biz..... I know this to be so because I supply all their Gripple. As for Art Bell, he don't drink my stuff. And now you know the "Rest (long pregnant pause) of the (shorter pregnant pause) Story!" Jim.. uh, I mean J. Jaime Gesundt
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 99 12:55:01 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 20:10:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' >From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' >Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 16:30:22 PDT Hi, Jer, >They say if it acts like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks >like a duck, it must be a duck. With that old saying in mind, I >would like to add your name as the newest member of 'the old >boys club.' That club consists of Stan Friedman, Budd Hopkins, >Walt Andrus, Bruce Macabbee [sic] and yourself. And, I imagine, several thousand other middle-aged and older males with more years in ufology than any of us would care to contemplate -- and all of us quacking at once. >I read your ridiculous comments about Bruce Macabbee >[sic] in a recent >message that you had sent. I quote your comments where you >state: >"I have much respect for Bruce Macabbee's intelligence, >knowledge and ability." Yup. Sure do. >Obviously, you have not been in touch with current ufology for >the past 10-years. Maybe this is because you are so absorbed >with the history of ufology that you haven't had time to pay >attention to what is going on in ufology for the last 10 or >15-years. I find your statement to be ludicrous, that Bruce >Macabbee [sic] has displayed intelligence, knowledge or ability >in the field of ufology in the last 10 or 15-years. It is >obvious to me that the 'Old Boys Club' [that you are included >in] is alive and well. And while you may have your differences >with Walt Andrus, please direct me to the IUR Journal where you >challenge Walt Andrus for his ludicrous leadership in the Ed >Walters/Gulf Breeze scenario. Please send me that journal and I >will happily pay for it. It's always interesting to be mentioned in the same sentence with Walt Andrus. Good thing Walt isn't on this list, because he's an older man and none of us would wish him to have a heart attack from the sheer trauma of seeing his name linked to mine. Obviously, Jerry, you have not been in touch with current ufology for the past 10 years. >It is obvious to me that no one in this 'Club' is going to take >a critical look at the other person's work, and if they find >anything unsatisfactory there, they will not make any public >comments against that person's work. I guess that's why CUFOS came down on the skeptical side of the Gulf Breeze controversy. We just didn't want to take "a critical look at the other person's work." Obviously, Jerry, you have not been in touch with current ufology for the past 10 years. >Jerome Clark, you state in your letter that if I would argue >photographic analysis with Bruce Macabbee [sic] that I would lose. >Obviously I would lose� I have never said that I was an expert >in photographic analysis. I don't recall saying that you have ever claimed to be an "expert in photographic analysis." I was simply encouraging you to be modest in what you said in Bruce Maccabee's presence. >That is why I have surrounded myself >with professionals in all types of fields related to ufology. Good for you. >[Please see my message to Roger Evans, where I list all the >experts I surround myself with to do a proper investigative job >in the field of ufology]. However, William G. Hyzer and his son >James are top-notch photoanalysts. When Bruce Macabbee >[sic] was >confronted by the Hyzer's, it became perfectly clear that >Macabbee [sic] does not, I repeat� NOT have the photographic analysis >ability that many of us were led to believe. Now, after repeatedly denying that you are an "expert in photographic analysis," you are now claiming the expertise to determine who knows his stuff -- Maccabee or the Hyzers -- in that area and who doesn't? Make up your mind, guy. You can't have it both ways. >Regarding the issue of 'self-appointed' leaders of ufology, you >obviously are demanding complete accuracy in everything I have >to say. Gosh, what a concept. Accuracy. Imagine. >However, let's take a look at your latest book, on pages >319 to 325 concerning the Casey County abduction case. There, >four to five glaring errors are apparent. Is that very precise >and accurate? Couldn't you have taken the time to spend >15-minutes and call one of the two lead investigators on that >case and save yourself the embarrassment of these glaring errors >that you made in trying to report this 1976 incident? The two >lead investigators spent over two years investigating the Casey >County [Kentucky] abduction, and still today remain 'in touch' >with the two remaining women, Mona Stafford and Louise Smith. >Those two investigators are Peggy Black [my wife], and myself. The "glaring errors," pointed out to me for you by Barbara Becker, were in fact fairly trivial ones. Should there be a new edition of the book (none, alas, is planned at the moment), they will of course be corrected. The account as it stands is substantially correct. Back then, according to Becker, you actually had nice things to say about my treatment. Gosh, I wonder why you changed your mind. Given what we see of your own accuracy or lack of same, it's fascinating to note your interest in mine. Evidently, you hold me to one standard, yourself to another. >When I made my statement about the Whitley Strieber show being >seen on national TV with no concern whether it was authentic or >not, and that the general public could not rely on nation TV to >give them true answers to cases, you stated in your response: "I >am confused. What does this have to do with ufology?" Yup. Strieber is not a ufologist and doesn't pretend to be one, and ufology, however it may lament Strieber's excesses, is not responsible for what he says. Strieber is. >What is has to do with ufology, Jerome Clark, is the following: >you are the head of one of the two largest UFO organizations in >the country. I am not, never have been, "head" of CUFOS. The organization has had two directors in its life: J. Allen Hynek, of course, and (since the mid-1980s into the present) Mark Rodeghier. I was a vice president for a few years, till that post was eliminated (it was judged, rightly, an effectively meaningless title), but remain on the CUFOS board and continue to edit IUR, as I have done since 1985. Rodeghier, however, is president and scientific director. >I am sure that most of your $25.00 per year >contributions are given not by UFOlogists, but by the general >public. Actually, our members are both. I fail to grasp your point. >So in my opinion, sir, if I were the head of one of the >two largest UFO organizations, then I would have a duty to the >subscribers and general public to evaluate nationally known >issues and other cases where books are written. We do review books, and if we don't like them, we say so. We also published accurate information in what many have called the best UFO magazine in the English language (Jenny Randles most recently). You do read IUR, don't you? Or don't you? See below for evidence to support the latter interpretation. >There is a responsibility that you certainly don't accept in >trying to evaluate the Whitley Strieber story. Way back when >Communion and Transformation were on the shelves, you should >have had an investigator looking into that case. Certainly >Strieber may not have cooperated with you, but at least the >obligation was yours to investigate that case so that you could >assert whether or not there was any validity to the claims. In other words, I have a responsibility to investigate everything and to state an opinion on same. Your absurd claim notwithstanding, I have written a little on Strieber, and it's hardly uncritical; two paragraphs in particular raise a serious question about Strieber's reliability. See The UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Ed., pp. 815 and 886-87. In any event, your assertions of my responsibilities are preposterous. Strieber strikes me as a saucerian equivalent to Carlos Castaneda. Through all the controversy that swirled around Castaneda's books for two decades, I don't recall that a single critic ever declared that it was the responsibility of all leading anthropologists personally to debunk those claims. Is anybody currently alleging that it is the responsibility of all leading paleontologists or biologists to research and denounce creationism. You're being silly, Jer. >You also should have offered Strieber and his wife, as I >recently did, to take a polygraph test. His lack of response or >cooperation would be the basis of your report: you tried to >investigate the case and dealt with his refusal to acknowledge >you or cooperate with you. But at least your subscribers would >recognize that the case would be without merit. But you didn't >do that. What is this childish obsession with polygraph tests? You sound like the Phil Klass of the 1970s. There is a vast literature that casts doubt on the reliability of such tests. Their use in UFO investigation seems seriously misguided. Their utility, especially in high-strangeness cases, is, at the very least, open to question, especially when witnesses themselves are confused by the ontological status of their experiences. My word, what a black-and-white world you live in, Mr. Black. >I also find your response about the Gulf Breeze case to be just >as ludicrous. Again, I quote: "Like you, I have deep doubts >about the core claims of the Gulf Breeze episode." That's an >embarrassing statement for a man who has been around ufology for >over 30-years. Yeah, I just love to embarrass myself. I guess I don't claim your psychic powers to certainty. Let me repeat: "I have deep doubts about the core claims of the Gulf Breeze episode." >Your comments are also embarrassing considering >you are the head of one of the two largest UFO organizations in >the country. And that is the only statement after 12-years since >the case was given attention that you could make regarding Gulf >Breeze? It was your responsibility to your subscribers and >general public to investigate the Gulf Breeze case. Actually, guy, if you subscribed to IUR and knew what you were talking about, you would know that CUFOS was deeply involved in the Gulf Breeze investigation, published at least one monograph on the subject, and carried a number of articles in IUR on the controversy. If you had followed ufology over the past 10 years, you would be aware that CUFOS' repeatedly expressed skepticism generated a period of tension with MUFON, which took a more favorable view of the episode. Because of my skepticism, Ed Walters long ago stopped communicating with me. Jerry, if you're going to appoint yourself ufology's judge, juror, and executioner, you'd better get your facts straight. From the looks of things, you've got a lot of straightening to do before you get down to some serious executing. >Your response in an earlier letter about Whitley Strieber was: >"You didn't think there was substance to the case, so why >bother?" Where does this quote come from? It sounds unlikely on its face, and it doesn't sound like something I would say. For another thing, I would never refer to myself in the second person. >The reason to bother, Jerome Clark, is because the >general public relies on you and other leaders of ufology to let >them know what books they should buy and what claims they should >consider. Thanks to yours and Walt Adrus' ineptness in >evaluating the Whitley Strieber case, he is now on Art Bell on a >regular basis, has his own program on nationally TV, has written >5 or 6 books� and during this time, I have never seen you or >Walt Andrus conduct a thorough investigation of his claims and >write up your conclusions! Actually, if you had read my UFO Encyclopedia, as clearly you haven't, you would have read a basically pretty skeptical treatment of Strieber's claims. You're good at telling other people what their responsibilities are, even as you're making all sorts of irresponsible charges yourself. Is there any reason I should not judge you a hypocrite? In fact, it could be argued that nobody in the history of the subject has ever done more than I have to try to guide interested persons on what's credible and what's not credible in this field. That isn't because I am a genius or a saint -- I'm neither, though I try -- but because I have written an enormous multivolume encyclopedia which reviews the UFO controversy in nearly all of its aspects, making critical observations and analysis all along the way. >Consequently, Strieber is now a spokesperson for ufology. According to whom, besides you? >He has the airwaves of Art Bell, even >as co-host for a while. His case should have been dealt with in >'86 or '87, thereby eliminating him from all this publicity he >receives. But not only have you and Walt Andrus not addressed >this situation, Walt Andrus invites him to their symposiums! I am fascinated by your obsession with Art Bell, whom you have mentioned more than once now. Unlike you, I don't listen to Bell, who in my limited experience of him (I was on his show once to plug a book and was well treated) seems a pleasant enough professional and surely much saner than many of his listeners. Do you consider himself a "spokesperson for ufology," too? And is it my job now to drive him off the air because he appeals to cranks, conspiracy theorists, and paranoids? This is, after all, a free country, and even crackpots get to have their radio and TV shows. >I would like to drop the phrase 'Self-Proclaimed Leader's I think you mean "Leaders." No apostrophe. >of >ufology.' While most people, I'm sure, undertand exactly what I >meant, for those such as Jerome Clark and his friends that do >not understand, I will change that phrase to 'High-Profile >people in the field of ufology.' With that in mind, I feel there >are six-people in the field who, in the past 10 to 15-years, >have not been productive in the UFO field. Three of those >people, Walt Andrus, Bruce Macabbee [sic] and Budd >Hopkins, have been >total embarrassments to the field of ufology. The other three >are Stanton Friedman, Kevin Randle, and Linda Moulton Howe, and >in the opinion of this writer, five of the six do not have a >clue how to truly investigate a UFO case. Yeah, I guess you'd know. As Orwell says, ignorance is strength. It seems to have carried you a long way. You should, however, do Bruce the courtesy of spelling his last name correctly. It's Maccabee, not Macabbee. >Four of these six people do not even believe in the use of a >polygraph test in the investigation of a UFO case Imagine. I am just shocked. >While the >polygraph is certainly not a fool-proof means of investigation, >when such a test is done by an expert of 20-years of experience >[using the Utah system computer aided] its accuracy is about >94%. A widely disputed figure, as you'd know if you bothered to read the relevant literature. >And while not being admissible as evidence in court, Gee, I wonder why. >Sometimes the refusal of a subject to take a polygraph test >would seem to give the UFO researcher a good idea whether the >person is telling the truth or not. In cases of both Whitley >Strieber and Ed Walters, two nationally prominent claims, both >gentlemen have refused to take third-party properly sponsored >polygraph tests. I wouldn't draw a conclusion one way or another from that. My doubts about Strieber's and Walters's claims have nothing to do with whether they agreed or disagreed to take a polygraph test -- people make their choices for all sorts of reasons, not all of them self-incriminatory (ever heard of the Fifth Amendment, Jer, or wondered why we have one?) -- and neither should yours. >Finally, Jerome Clark, you stated that you have probably been in >this field longer than I have. According to my math, you have >been researching, but not necessarily investigating, UFOs for >approximately 35-years. I, on the other hand, have been >researching and investigating UFOs for 42-years. In your letter >where you said that you had a hard time taking me seriously, let >me say as the senior investigator, Jerome Clark, that the >question should be: do I want to take anything *you* have to say >seriously? So far, in all your ranting and raving concerning my >comments about your buddies in ufology, I can see no reason to >take anything you have to say seriously. Your call, dude. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration'? From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 14:23:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:51:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration'? >From: Nancy Davidson <nld1@ix.netcom.com> >Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:53:20 -0500 (CDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration'? >Hi, >Has anybody read Ingo Swann's book on Pentration. If they have, >what is their opinion on the book and on Ingo Swann. >Just asking the question on the book because I plan to buy it. For the inside scoop on many Remote Viewers, including Swann, see Jim Schnabel's book on the topic, Remote Viewers : The Secret History of America's Psychic Spies. It's less than five bucks from Amazon.com and is likely available in your local library. Swann has a web page at: http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/Superpowers.html Swann developed the most popular protocol for RV; but, he was not the most effective Viewer. Pat Price held that title until he died in Las Vegas. Or was he poisoned by the former Soviets, as some people believe? Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: [lunascan] Heads Up - Incoming From: Royce J. Myers III <evidence@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 11:22:44 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:54:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [lunascan] Heads Up - Incoming >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >To: "02 - UFO UpDates Subscribers":; >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: [lunascan] Heads Up - Incoming >Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:28:29 -0400 >>8 UFOs "with flaming tails" traveling "in formation" from west >>to east. 1 1/2 minutes to cross the sky. >John Velez wrote: >If anyone cares to see videotape of an identical phenomena, >check out "Voyagers of the Sixth Sun" by Britt & Lee Elders in >conjunction with Jaime Maussan. >In it, you can view a videoclip of several slow moving (in >formation, maintaining equal distance between them,) flaming, >luminous, orbs that are moving painfully slowly across the >videographers field of view. Great size and distance references. >ie; surrounding buildings, utility poles, trees, etc.) The whole >sequence lasts about 15 seconds. I have seen the segment of video that John is referring to. Some of it is interesting, while part of it is curious. In one segment you can clearly see several of the objects, mainly in the rear, displaying what look to be aviation lights flashing in sequence. While the majority of video on Voyagers of the Sixth Sun is amazing (minus the blimp with a strobe in it), the segment with the slow moving objects (which remind me of, but don't appear to be, meteors) is somewhat suspect because of those flashing lights. Just a thought, hope everyone is doing well. Take care. Regards, Royce J. Myers III Eugene, Oregon http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration' From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:33:51 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:56:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration' >From: Nancy Davidson <nld1@ix.netcom.com> >Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:53:20 -0500 (CDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration'? >Hi, >Has anybody read Ingo Swann's book on Pentration. If they have, >what is their opinion on the book and on Ingo Swann. >Just asking the question on the book because I plan to buy it. I've got Swann's book; ordered and read it this past spring. The book is non-fiction. Very interesting material, predicated of course on whether you accept Swann's remote-viewing abilities. Basically, Swann establishes his remote-viewing credentials by reference to some successful work he did in university/government experiments out in California, some related to predicting what U.S. spacecraft would find when they reached Jupiter. Swann then goes on to describe being contacted and taken to a secret site outside Washington D.C. by a small super-secret government team that asks him to remote-view specific coordinates on the Moon. What he finds there boggles his mind (I won't tell you here; don't wanna spoil the story). He also describes a later bizarre encounter he has while visiting a friend out in Los Angeles. He encounters, totally unexpectedly, during a quick stop in a supermarket, an extraordinary woman who by some queer twist, is being shadowed by two of the same government team members who hosted his Washington moon session. He concludes the woman, is, so to say, an "immigrant". He also describes a third contact with this very covert government group, during which he by invitation is flown up to Alaska to witness an object materialize over an isolated lake, with near disastrous results. The whole set of experiences leaves him wondering, in his later years, what's really going on. Well, don't we all? :-) As I say, the book is represented as non-fiction; make of it what you will. Swann also has a web site, which you might want to check out: http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/Superpowers.html Finally, note I'm writing all this from work, without reference to the book at home, so please pardon any minor memory errors. -Brian Cuthbertson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:05:47 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 20:24:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' >From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' >Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 16:30:22 PDT Dear Jerry >To Mr. Jerome Clark; >They say if it acts like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks >like a duck, it must be a duck. With that old saying in mind, I >would like to add your name as the newest member of 'the old >boys club.' That club consists of Stan Friedman, Budd Hopkins, >Walt Andrus, Bruce Macabbee and yourself. Who decided who was in the "old boys club"? You by your proclamation and and acidic letters? Whilst I reserve the right to enjoy an argument with any on this list I do not consider your "open" letters to be an argument. When I say argument I mean debatable discussion etc etc. You and your open letters are not "arguments" but (IMHO) open insults. Before you start stating facts and figures about the contents of your posts and start talking about the finer pints, I would like to point out my statement is dealing with the overall tone of the letters not nitty gritty details. >Sincerely, >Jerry Black >6276 Taylor Pike >Blanchester, Ohio 45107 >(513)625-2613 BTW do I consider that I have "made it" in u-fool-agy when I am on the receiving end of one of your open letters? -- In an infinite universe infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm UFO page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:50:14 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 23:34:04 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 00:40:30 EDT >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> >>Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:50:11 EDT >>Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:25:27 -0400 >>Subject: To David Rudiak and the List: Thank's a lot for your answer. Excuse my being slow to answer but I was absent for a few days. I just have a few points to add, the first one being that I would like other members of this List to comment on this discussion, which offers a clear explanation about what happened and what was shown in General Ramey's office ! >>I am well aware of the Sunday 6 flight in the evening, but I am >>was talking about another flight which took place on Tuesday 8. >>This flight clearly mentioned by General DuBose in a long >>interview with Jaime Shandera, published in the MUFON UFO >>Journal on January 1991. DuBose said that he was alone to meet >>the plane, a B-29, and Marcel was not there. Let's quote the >>exact text of two parts of the interview: >Gildas, >My apologies for misinterpreting what you wrote. I don't have a >transcript of this interview, though I have seen brief excerpts >of it, primarily from skeptics. My impression previously of >this interview had been that Dubose was compressing the earlier >flight, which he sometimes described, and the Marcel flight into >one event. Skeptics had done that as well to bolster their >arguments that what was photographed was what Marcel had brought >from Roswell, which to most people's eye at least is a balloon. Yes, the skeptics abundantly used the interviews of Moore and Shandera with General DuBose. Let's recall briefly the discusion which took place in 1990-1991 (Would Kevin Randle confirm it ?): In 1990, Moore and Shandera were convinced that the debris shown on the pictures of Bond Johnson were those of flying disk. They based that idea on a first interview with General DuBose, published in the Mufon Journal of September 1990 in which he said that the debris had not been switched. They just assumed that the real debris looked like ballon debris. Then, there was a second interview of DuBose, this time by Shandera alone, the one I quoted and which was published in the MUFON Journal of January 1991. Again, he had DuBose confirm that the debris had not been switched, so it seemed to close the debate. This was a beautiful gift made to the skeptics : "you see, they had found a balloon !" (later to become a balloon train). But on careful reading, one can see that there was another explanation : DuBose said that because he never saw the real debris and did not know that they had been brought some time before by Marcel, seen by Ramey, who opened one of the wrapped boxes (that's understandable : pieces from a flying disk !) and carried away. Probable destination : Wright field, as stated in the FBI memo. Clearly, there were two different flights. In the MUFON Journal of April 1991, Kevin Randle and Donald Schmitt published another interview with general DuBose which put an end to the confusion created by Moore and Shandera. In it, DuBose confirmed very clearly that he had not seen the real debris. I fail to understand why, several years later, some people still cling to the idea that he had brought and laid on the floor real debris from the flying disk. To me it sounds like a bad remake of the Moore-Shandera episode. >However, you have a different take on what Dubose said which I >(and I think others) haven't thought of before. I would be very surprised if nobody had thought about this explanation before. I would very much like to have the opinion of Kevin Randle and Stanton Friedman on this! Or then, I must suppose that the opinion of Shandera was so exasperaring that the rest of the interview was discarded by all serious researchers. It's too bad because it was so revealing! >This does differ in significant ways from the Marcel flight, >where the debris samples Marcel took to Ramey's office were >wrapped in brown paper, according to Robert Porter (and as >suggested by the paper on the floor in the photos). As you >mention below, it also differs from Dubose's statements about >the earlier flight. Yes, there should not be any confusion with the Sunday flight, or the Tuesday flight with Marcel and other officers on board, as described by Robert Porter (affidavit quoted in the USAF Roswell Report!) and Marcel himself. The only point on which I would disagree is your mention of the brown paper on the floor, which has nothing to do, most probably, with wrapped packages of the real debris. It's just that they protected the floor with a roll of paper. >Alternatively, this cover story could have been in preparation >as a contingency plan for an entire day (as suggested by Col. >Ryan, Ramey's op officer, mentioning to the press the previous >day that he thought radar targets were the explanation for the >flying disks). When it became necessary to implement it because >of the press feeding frenzy that followed immediately after the >press release, everything was already in place to carry it out. >The base operations officer(Ryan) would have been a logical >person to have arranged the whole thing and had the debris flown >in. Yes, all this seems very probable. Apparently, DuBose was not informed of the whole story. Here is another quote from his interview by Shandera (MUFON Journal, page 14): Question: Wasn't it unusual to take material like this to the chief's office? Answer: Well, not unusual because this (the order to do so) had come from Washington - somebody had said there that something unusual had gone on out at Roswell in General's Ramey's territory. General McMullen had bypassed us and told (Colonel) Blanchard in Roswell to put this stuff on a plane and get it over to Ft Worth for Ramey to get a look at it. DuBose then repeats that he took the pouch to Ramey's office "so we could take a look at it". >My hunch is that it wasn't coincidence that Ryan replaced >Blanchard at Roswell the following year. As an important member >of Ramey's staff (one of five colonels at FWAAF, Dubose and >Clarke being two others), I suspect he was in on it. Washington >may have wanted somebody already in-the-know on the matter to >remain in command at Roswell to keep an eye on things. >Admittedly this is just conjecture. Conjecture, maybe, but very good conjecture to me! Any other opinion on this List? Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Ingo Swann's book 'Penetration'? From: Jean-Luc Rivera <JLRIV1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:48:47 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 23:40:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Ingo Swann's book 'Penetration'? >From: Nancy Davidson <nld1@ix.netcom.com> >Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:53:20 -0500 (CDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Ingo Swann's book 'Pentration'? >Hi, >Has anybody read Ingo Swann's book on Pentration. If they have, >what is their opinion on the book and on Ingo Swann. Hi Nancy, I read Ingo's book a few months ago and found it fascinating. Of course, the material is very controversial, to say the least, but it comes from an author who has a real track record in parapsychology, specially he is one of the foremost pioneers in remote viewing and what he says must be listened to. Ingo Swann is a very perceptive individual and the chapters in his book about the interactions between some services and the ET is extremely puzzling even if it can be considered as hard to believe by most: I am extremely surprised by the deafening silence about this book. Maybe too puzzling a book! >Just asking the question on the book because I plan to buy it. It's a good move, and a great buy:-)) Ingo Swann's web site, for all who want to know more,is: http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/ Thanks. Jean-Luc Rivera
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 7 UFO Report - 9/6/99: DePere, Wisconsin From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:23:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 23:45:57 -0400 Subject: UFO Report - 9/6/99: DePere, Wisconsin The following UFO report was received by E-mail yesterday. Some follow-up questions were answered late this afternoon, and here are some details: DATE: September 6, 1999 TIME: Between 8:15 p.m. and after 9:00 p.m. C.D.T. LOCATION: DePere, Wisconsin [near Green Bay along Fox River] DESCRIPTION OF EVENT: Two witnesses, husband and wife, observe objects "almost directly overhead." The objects were headed slightly east and veered to the south. Movement was erratic, thought to be unlike a satellite or meteor. There was no visible tail or colored lights. Witnesses were looking through binoculars. Objects described as 'zig-zagging lights.' ADDITION: Enclosed below is the actual text of the initial E-mail report. The name and address of the claimant can be forwarded privately to interested parties, but is being excluded from public release. -------------- Mr. Young, Tonight my husband and I were in our backyard sitting by our fire pit and admiring the fall sky. He has a good eye for things and was pointing out planes and all the stars. He saw something strange so he ran in the house to get the binoculars. Although we could not see exactly what it was, we did see that the unidentified object was not following the same definition as other things we had been watching. We viewed airplanes and what was probably a satellite, but this was different. It flew faster and very zigzagged. I thought maybe being we had binoculars we were moving our hands but that wasn't the case because when we watched planes they did not appear that way. At one point it seemed to align itself with other stars and then took off and disappear. One was interesting enough but we have seen about 3 others. If this was a satellite that had lost orbit I would understand, but not three. It seems to be doing circles. We are so curious as to what this could be. I called and left a message on the 800 MUFON line asking for an answer. Please believe me when I say that we are not looking anything but an answer. Thank you for your time and consideration. END OF MESSAGE -- UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 8 Looking For Greek Ufologists Or Sites From: Erol Erkmen <andromeda1@turk.net> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:40:29 +0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 06:53:14 -0400 Subject: Looking For Greek Ufologists Or Sites We are looking for Greek ufolojist to share project alp please. Contact: Erol Erkmen tuvpo@tuvpoorg.cjb.net TUVPO the project alp http://members.tripod.com/~ufolojist/deprem.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Read This Post - It Is Truth Reviled From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:34:13 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 06:56:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Read This Post - It Is Truth Reviled >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:41:43 EDT >Subject: Read This Post - It Is Truth Reviled >To: updates@globalserve.net >What prompted this short post is a phone call I just received >from an irate "researcher" of great fame. Seems I referred to >(X) in a post not terribly long ago, and I implied that he (or >she, to confuse youse) was not a true researcher because he (or >she) had no degree in UFO research ... in factoid, didn't even >have a Ph.D.! <massive, important snip> No, no, no. This just doesn't work because you have just smeared everyone who ever received a fee for a lecture, wrote a book, wrote an article or appeared on radio or television. This is not fair because you now have everyone guessing as to who it was, if in fact, there was anyone. We have had a lot of talk on this group about researchers backbiting, infighting and name calling. Yeah, there is too much of it, but, in those cases, we knew who was telling what to whom. Here we have an allegation that can be attached to nearly everyone. It is not even close to fair to those who didn't call you. At least Jerry Black has named the names of those he doesn't like (Hey, Jerry, don't put me between Stan and Linda... at one end or the other fine...). No, this sort of blanket allegation splashes mud on everyone... KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 8 CPR-Canada News: Update on Neilburg, Saskatchewan From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:45:51 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 07:08:48 -0400 Subject: CPR-Canada News: Update on Neilburg, Saskatchewan CPR-Canada News News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Update on Neilburg, Saskatchewan Crop Formation September 7, 1999 _____________________________ Editor: Paul Anderson _____________________________ Additional images, including an updated diagram and some excellent ground shots, are now available courtesy of Judy Arndt, who did a ground study of the formation on Sunday, September 5, along with her husband Mike. There are actually eleven circles, not ten as originally reported, and they are arranged in an elegant "three armed julia set" type pattern. The formation is approximately 185 feet across, in wheat. There is also a closeup shot of "swollen and bent nodes" on stalks inside the pattern. Many thanks for their assistance! Judy's report and images: http://www.treasurehouseimports.com/neilbgcircles/neilburg.html Gordon Sopzcak, Alberta representative for CPR-Canada and CCCS has also gone out to the site to do follow-up investigation and sampling for BLT. Jeff Rudichuk, CPR-Saskatchewan, is unfortunately out of town until the end of this week (the formation is also due to be combined at the end of this week). I can't get away myself due to work commitments, and I'll be out of town myself this coming weekend for the CONTACT conference. Big thank you's to all who have assisted in this case, it appears to be one of the more significant formations in this country (in other words, a real beauty!). PLEASE NOTE: the farmer DOES NOT want the public going in to see this formation; serious researchers only are being allowed in to do surveys, sampling, etc. Please resepect this. In regard to this, we will not be publicizing the specific location. Thank you! Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada _____________________________ Circle Phenomena in Canada Report Archive 1999: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html A reminder for all Canadian subscribers / readers - your assistance is welcome and needed - ANY reports of other possible circles this year, please do let us know as soon as possible! See Reporting and Field Research Guidelines on the web site for more information: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reporting.html REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522 _____________________________ CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International), and is published periodically or as breaking news develops, with the latest news and information and is available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or "unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.c CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions. Forward all correspondence to: CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Office Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 � Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 1999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 8 CPR-Canada News: Art Update on Canadian Crop From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:53:06 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 07:21:36 -0400 Subject: CPR-Canada News: Art Update on Canadian Crop CPR-Canada News News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Art Bell Update on Canadian Crop Circles '99; New Quebec Coordinator September 7, 1999 _____________________________ Editor: Paul Anderson _____________________________ ART BELL UPDATE ON CANADIAN CROP CIRCLES '99 Linda Moulton Howe will be doing an update on Art Bell's Coast to Coast radio program on Wednesday, September 8 (10:00 pm PT) regarding the latest crop circles this year in Canada. Not to be missed! NEW QUEBEC COORDINATOR CPR-Canada also now has a new coordinator for the province of Quebec, Yvonne Davis-Robson, who resides in Pointe-Claire, a suburb of Montreal. She has been to England for the past couple years now to visit and study the circles and has graciously offered her assistance here in Canada. She can be reached by e-mail at: mailto:angel22@total.net A warm welcome to Yvonne! Note: some additional coordinator(s) contact information is kept confidential at their request; may be made available as needed on request, to serious researchers/assistants only. See CPR-Canada Offices on the web site (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/cprcoff.html) for posted contact info (five provinces now!). Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada _____________________________ Circle Phenomena in Canada Report Archive 1999: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html A reminder for all Canadian subscribers / readers - your assistance is welcome and needed - ANY reports of other possible circles this year, please do let us know as soon as possible! See Reporting and Field Research Guidelines on the web site for more information: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reporting.html REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522 _____________________________ CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International), and is published periodically or as breaking news develops, with the latest news and information and is available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or "unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.c CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions. Forward all correspondence to: CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Office Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 � Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 1999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 8 Sighting Report 9-5-99 - Brighton, IA From: John E.L. Tenney <jelt2000@email.msn.com> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 04:42:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 07:32:02 -0400 Subject: Sighting Report 9-5-99 - Brighton, IA The following UFO report was received by E-mail yesterday. Here are some details. For anyone in the area that may have more questions I also have the e-mail address of the witness which is available on request. Thanks, John E.L. Tenney ========================== Date: Sunday, September 5, 1999 Time: 9:54 PM EST Subject: sighting Date: 09/05/99 Time: 00:50 Duration: 20 minutes Sighting City: Brighton Sighting State: IA Sighting Zip: 52540 Sighting County: Washington Witnesses: 5 Summary: We observed a strange bright light in the eastern sky which moved both horizontally and vertically with no apparent pattern. The light would also appear and disappear sporadically. It moved only a matter of approximately 20-25 degrees from the horizon and about 10-15 degrees to the south south east in the 20 minutes that it was observed before completely disappearing. The light then reappeared about 2hrs. and 15mins. later in a different location about 20 degrees from the horizon and 15 degrees south from where it had origionally disappeared. The light was then observed for about 15 minutes before again disappearing completely. Description: We were camping at a privately owned pond about 4 miles east of Brighton, Iowa when at 12:50am on Sept. 5, 1999 we spotted a strange light in the eastern sky. The night sky had a low dusting of clouds in which the normal constellations were veiwed to be very faint and fuzzy. The light that we observed was a very bright white. While we watched, the light seemed to be moving very quickly in jagged circular motion as it slowly climbed vertically from the horizon and moved in a southernly direction. The light would stay in one place for a matter of minutes and then would quickly dart a few degrees up from the horizon, move south, or would move diagonally in the sky then stop. It also, would dim and completely disappear for a matter of 30 seconds to 3 minutes before it would reappear, sometimes in the same position and sometimes in another position a few degrees from where it had disappeared. This disappearance occured approximately eight times in the 20 minutes before it disappeared completely. The only discernable pattern that we observed was that the light only moved up and/or to the right of it's origional location. The reappearance of the light or a light similar to the first appeared about 2hrs. and 15mins. from the disappearance of the first sighting. At this time it was about 20 degrees from the horizon and 15 degrees south of the origional disappearance. We then observed this light for about 15 minutes before it again disappeared completely. The second light was observed to behave in the same manner as the first until it went behind a cloud bank and then shot away from our position. Occupation: Business Owner/Personal Trainer =========================== This information was submitted by a visitor to: http://members.tripod.com/~mainorg ===========================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 8 Tampa UFO - Another "Russian Booster" Cover Story? From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:03:38 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 08:14:33 -0400 Subject: Tampa UFO - Another "Russian Booster" Cover Story? Did anyone happen to catch the report last night (Tuesday, Sept 7) on FOX TV News? Many people in the Tampa area witnessed a sighting which was explained by "officials" here as a Russian booster rocket falling into the Gulf. They showed a home video of the UFO and it looked like a trianglar type UFO, not piece of space junk! Witnesses, according to the report, said at one point during the sighting it hovered motionless and then ascending rapidly out of view. I have requested a transcript of the news report and video from FOX 13 News. Not certain when it will be forthcoming. Anyone with more information please contact UFOSEEK@aol.com Please repost far and wide. www.ufoseek.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 14:22:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:18:20 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell [Note: Images are not posted to The UFO UpDates Archive subscription has its advantages--ebk] >From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:50:14 EDT >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 00:40:30 EDT >>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>To: updates@globalserve.net Dear Gildas, David and List. >I just have a few points to add, the first one being that I >would like other members of this List to comment on this >discussion, which offers a clear explanation about what happened >and what was shown in General Ramey's office ! I would just like mention a point. >The only point on which I would disagree is your mention of the >brown paper on the floor, which has nothing to do, most >probably, with wrapped packages of the real debris. It's just >that they protected the floor with a roll of paper. If you check closely in uncropped versions of the JBJ FW photographs at least one package in wrapping paper can be spotted clearly, this package is against the radiator to the rear of Marcel, the package still seems to be intact. There are also sheets of discarded wrapping in view (quite creased and behind the chairs in some of the shots). The "radiator" package can also be seen clearly in the Irving Newton photo, shot later that evening by an as yet unknown party, in this image it still seems to be in the same position. The attached image file shows this package for those who have not seen it. The main image is Marcel-Left with the package circled, the inset is from the Irving Newton image. You can note that though the pictures were taken from a different angles the creased wrapping paper catching the light from the flash can be pattern matched quite easily. Neil. -- * * * * * * * * Neil Morris. /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\ Dept of Physics. 1 1 Univ of Manchester 0 0 Schuster Labs. 1 Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES 1 Brunswick St. 0 0 Manchester. 1 1 UK. \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/ G8KOQ E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk Roswell and Alien Autopsy Archive-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ Dave Willetts Home Page-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/ Mike Sterling Home Page-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/mike-s/ Tim Morgan Home Page -> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/tim-m/ * * * * * * * * package.jpg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:02:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:25:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' >Date: Tue, 07 Sep 99 12:55:01 PDT >>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Ufology's 'Old Boys Club' >>Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 16:30:22 PDT >>I read your ridiculous comments about Bruce Macabbee >>[sic] in a recent >>message that you had sent. I quote your comments where you >>state: >>"I have much respect for Bruce Macabbee's intelligence, >>knowledge and ability." >>Obviously, you have not been in touch with current ufology for >>the past 10-years. Maybe this is because you are so absorbed >>with the history of ufology that you haven't had time to pay >>attention to what is going on in ufology for the last 10 or >>15-years. I find your statement to be ludicrous, that Bruce >>Macabbee [sic] has displayed intelligence, knowledge or ability >>in the field of ufology in the last 10 or 15-years. >I guess that's why CUFOS came down on the skeptical side of the >Gulf Breeze controversy. We just didn't want to take "a critical >look at the other person's work." Obviously, Jerry, you have not >been in touch with current ufology for the past 10 years. Hi, Can I comment here about Bruce. Firstly, I do not agree with everything he has ever said by quite some margin (and I am sure the same is true with him of what I have said). I have my reservations about some of the photo cases he has dealt with, but of two things I am certain. He is the best and most valuable photo analyst we have and his good work is significant and visible. I always pay attention when he says something - not to believe all he says - but to heed his thoughts because they are born of first hand experience of photo analysis and ufology. To say otherwise suggests ignorance of the totality of Bruce's research. You cannot replace experience in ufology because first hand research is the only way to go. Also he is willing to expose misperception, fraud and deception where he finds it and has done several times. Recently - for example - his expose of cases like the Phoenix flares (still touted in the UK as real UFOs by some) or the clever Mexico City hoax spring to mind. I should also add that Bruce's lecture at the MUFON conference in DC was for me one of the high spots. I am glad I stayed behind late to see it all (as many who missed out did not). He had a good blend of skepticism where required and open minded desire to learn more via a truly intriguing case he reported on from Arizona. There were few other lectures at DC to come close in terms of presenting real ufology. >Strieber is not a ufologist and doesn't pretend to be one, >and ufology, however it may lament Strieber's excesses, is not >responsible for what he says. Strieber is. >>What is has to do with ufology, Jerome Clark, is the following: >>you are the head of one of the two largest UFO organizations in >>the country. >In any event, your assertions of my responsibilities are >preposterous. Strieber strikes me as a saucerian equivalent to >Carlos Castaneda. Through all the controversy that swirled >around Castaneda's books for two decades, I don't recall that a >single critic ever declared that it was the responsibility of >all leading anthropologists personally to debunk those claims. >Is anybody currently alleging that it is the responsibility of >all leading paleontologists or biologists to research and >denounce creationism. You're being silly, Jer. Ufologists will know why I am not going to get involved in discussing Whitley Strieber and Mr Black might care to recall (or find out) what happened when I did. Then he might realise that it is nothing like as simple as he suggests for ufologists to march in and say what they think. I tried that with MJ 12 ten years ago - when I had good reason to believe it a hoax and wanted to caution the public of that fact - but I am still facing the consequences years later. You wont find me rushing to comment objectively on contentious issues any time soon because I have been there, done that and paid the far from inconsiderable price. >>You also should have offered Strieber and his wife, as I >>recently did, to take a polygraph test. His lack of response or >>cooperation would be the basis of your report: you tried to >>investigate the case and dealt with his refusal to acknowledge >>you or cooperate with you. But at least your subscribers would >>recognize that the case would be without merit. But you didn't >>do that. Regardless of my views on the Strieber affair, I should point out, Jerry, that in May l987 when he visited the UK the BBC insisted that he took a lie detector test before he was given any national TV air time to tell his story. He took it and I understand that he passed. He was still treated scathingly by the UK media and no doubt he figured that taking future such tests would do nothing to stop people thinking what they wanted to think. What passing a polygraph for the BBC means of course is open to judgement, but if a polygraph determines a witnesses credibility in your eyes then Strieber proved himself long ago. >>I also find your response about the Gulf Breeze case to be just >>as ludicrous. Again, I quote: "Like you, I have deep doubts >>about the core claims of the Gulf Breeze episode." That's an >>embarrassing statement for a man who has been around ufology for >>over 30-years. >Yeah, I just love to embarrass myself. I guess I don't claim >your psychic powers to certainty. Let me repeat: "I have deep >doubts about the core claims of the Gulf Breeze episode." >>Actually, guy, if you subscribed to IUR and knew what you were >talking about, you would know that CUFOS was deeply involved in >the Gulf Breeze investigation, published at least one monograph >on the subject, and carried a number of articles in IUR on the >controversy. If you had followed ufology over the past 10 years, >you would be aware that CUFOS' repeatedly expressed skepticism >generated a period of tension with MUFON, which took a more >favorable view of the episode. Because of my skepticism, Ed >Walters long ago stopped communicating with me. This is true in my estimation. The CUFOS v MUFON 'difference of opinion' over Gulf Breeze circa l988/9 was evident to any outside viewer and pleased most Ufolk in the UK who have been singularly unimpressed with this vastly inflated case from day one. CUFOS unquestionably took a properly cautious approach and were more skeptical than MUFON (although nothing like as sceptical as UK ufology who possibly had the advantage of distance). But to suggest otherwise about CUFOS implies you have not read the relevant literature. Best wishes, Jenny Randles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Tampa UFO - Another "Russian Booster" Cover From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:28:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:31:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Tampa UFO - Another "Russian Booster" Cover >From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:03:38 EDT >Subject: Tampa UFO - Another "Russian Booster" Cover Story? >To: Updates@globalserve.net Hello, all >Did anyone happen to catch the report last night (Tuesday, Sept >7) on FOX TV News? >Many people in the Tampa area witnessed a sighting which was >explained by "officials" here as a Russian booster rocket >falling into the Gulf. They showed a home video of the UFO and >it looked like a trianglar type UFO, not piece of space junk! It seems that Russian Boosters get as much credit as slow Meteors lately. >Witnesses, according to the report, said at one point during the >sighting it hovered motionless and then ascending rapidly out of >view. Typical spent booster behaviour I'd say. >I have requested a transcript of the news report and video from >FOX 13 News. Not certain when it will be forthcoming. Anyone >with more information please contact UFOSEEK@aol.com >Please repost far and wide. >www.ufoseek.org Well, the tape will tell, and even if it did show an obvious ah, anomaly, it would be debunked, as in the usual suspects; Balloons, out of focus peli... no, I don't want to go there again, et al. So what we have here is typical; (this happened a few years ago in Seattle ) say there was a Russian Booster , OK, which flight? Was it a satelite launch or a manned-mission's reminant? Supposedly NORAD tracks these things, they should know. Also if the Booster, say, impacted well off the coast, could it have been seen at all? Oh well, I ask too "many questions!" - My 4th grade teacher, who these days, would've had me on Ritdalin. GT McCoy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 8 UFO Report - Gallatin, Tennessee: 9/7/99 From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 16:33:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:37:40 -0400 Subject: UFO Report - Gallatin, Tennessee: 9/7/99 This UFO report was received by E-mail yesterday. Some follow-up questions were answered this afternoon, and here are some details: DATE: September 7, 1999 TIME: 10:15 a.m. Central Standard Time LOCATION: Gallatin, Tennessee DESCRIPTION OF EVENT: A hovering silver-colored object was spotted over a wooded area near a residential subdivision. After a 30-second duration, the object literally vanished from sight. ADDITION: Enclosed below is the original E-mail report sent by the claimant: ________________________ "I was driving to my new house in a new subdivision, when I spotted an object flying slowly about a quarter mile away. I looked at it again and noticed that it was not casting a reflection on a sunny day without any cloud cover at all. It was a bright metallic silver object, unlike any aircraft that I have ever seen. The object was moving very slowly, almost hovering over a wooded area that was being developed in this new subdivision on the north side of Gallatin, TN. "I turned off my car and got out to see if I could hear anything and make sure it wasn't a reflection in the window of my car. It was there, plain to see. "It was cylindrical in shape and moving ever so slowly. The object had absolutely no sound. Within 10 seconds, the object just disappeared from my sight-that is a good description as I don't know how else to describe how it vanished. "I am a 37 year old white male. I was the only witness to my knowledge. I am a business professional in Gallatin, TN. I do not drink much and haven't had a drink in some several weeks. I am not taking any medication. I have never reported a sighting before. Nor have I ever been treated for any psychotic or psychological disorders. You are welcomed to contact me via E-Mail should you need to speak with me on this matter." -------- FOLLOW-UP: A series of questions had been posed to the witness, which he replied to accordingly. Enclosed below are his answers;. __________________ *I was alone, so I don't know if anyone else saw the object. The object was near a populated area. There was an existing subdivision about a quarter of a mile away and the object was in sight of it or anyone who lived there. However, that is the only populated area in that locale. * I did not hear any sound. In fact, I turned my car off and got out to listen for sound, but I heard none. * The object was visible to me for about 30 seconds. * The time of day was 10:15 PM Central Standard Time. * I was on the north side of Gallatin and I was driving north.. The object was in the northern portion of Gallatin, west of my location by a quarter of a mile. ADDITIONAL COMMENT: The name and address of the claimant can be forwarded privately to interested parties, but is being excluded from public release. Although there is no information suggestive of a relationship, we should be mindful whether or not this sighting may correlate with another spate of sightings over Tampa Florida on the same day, in which many in the Tampa area were told that a Russian booster rocket had fallen into the Gulf. An alleged video of this sighting was reportedly broadcast on a local Fox-13 News TV station, and was described by one person as resembling a 'triangular-shaped object.' Filed; September 8, 1999 Kenny Young -- UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 8 Tracking UFOs by Satellite From: Maxwell Burns <maxwell.burns@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:01:48 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:45:40 -0400 Subject: Tracking UFOs by Satellite To the list, I thought this article may be of interest? Max Burns ------ Tracking UFOs by Satellite By Simon Harvey-Wilson For most of the cold war the superpowers' ground and satellite early warning systems would have needed to be able to track UFOs in order to distinguish them from nuclear missiles. It would have been in neither side's interests to start World War III because for example NATO mistook a flight of five UFOs flying westwards from Russia for the first salvo of a nuclear strike against the West. Detailed information on these early warning systems remains classified despite the end of the cold war. This may be one reason why Western nations have been reluctant to acknowledge the reality of UFOs. If they did admit their existence, the scientific community and those who had swallowed the 'They don't exist' line might demand to see the radar evidence. But how could the Pentagon provide such proof and still keep the extraordinary capabilities of such surveillance infrastructure secret? Yet without providing such evidence their claims would be no more convincing than those of the UFO community who likewise cannot produce any radar tapes. The worldwide amateur UFO research community probably does not own a single radar set, air traffic control computer, jet fighter, or satellite between them. All such hardware is in the hands of governments who so far have refused to use them to settle the UFO question. I believe that Western governments would rather that the public knew as little as possible about their tracking systems, firstly for national security reasons and secondly because, once the public knew how extensive and sophisticated they were, they would realise that they were almost certainly capable of proving whether UFOs exist or not within little more than twenty-four hours. Instead we are being asked to believe that such governments have apparently discovered nothing conclusive in this field for fifty years. Where are these early warning systems, what can they do and where does information about them come from? The first thing to point out is that all the information in this article comes from open sources. Anyone can look it up in the library or on the Internet, provided you know where to look. Writers and scholars who specialise in this subject call it 'Strategic Studies'. My first source is a book called An Illustrated Guide To Space Warfare by David Hobbs, who was a researcher at Aberdeen University's Centre for Defence Studies. Three other sources are The Ties That Bind: Intelligence Cooperation Between the UKUSA Countries by Jeffrey T. Richelson & Desmond Ball; Pine Gap by Des Ball; and A Base For Debate: The US Satellite Station at Nurrungar also by Des Ball. Professor Desmond Ball has been the head of the Strategic and Defence Studies Centre at the Australian National University, and Dr Richelson has been a consultant and Senior Fellow at the National Security Archive in the USA. I assume therefore that they know what they are talking about. It should also be emphasised that none of these books mentions UFOs. But why, you might ask, haven't these writers had their knuckles rapped for releasing classified information? As far as I can gather the answer is because all the information they discuss is derived from open sources and is either out of date or sufficiently vague so as not to be of any threat to national security. Nevertheless, out of date information is still relevant to the UFO debate. If it can be shown that the world's superpowers had the equipment to track and therefore research UFOs thirty or more years ago, then it is most unlikely that today's equipment is any less capable, which suggests that they have been concealing their knowledge of the UFO phenomenon for all that time. How would you track UFOs if you had an almost unlimited budget? We know that some UFOs can be picked up by radar. There are numerous reports available which attest to that. Most civilian airport radars have a limited range and it is not the job of civilian air traffic controllers to keep a look out for UFOs. Thankfully they devote their time to stopping passenger jets from crashing into each other, and most of us would prefer that they kept doing precisely that. However military radar plays a different role. In theory any nation's air force is supposed to be interested in identifying everything that flies into its air space in case it turns out to be hostile. Despite government protestations to the contrary, this would definitely include UFOs. BALLISTIC MISSILE EARLY WARNING SYSTEM. The United States BMEWS system is vast, complex, and has a degree of redundancy built into it so that, if one part fails or is damaged, another part can take over. Let us deal with the ground-based systems first. Nuclear weapons can be fired from submarines, from underground silos, from the air, and perhaps even from space. To protect the North American continent, the USA and Canada cooperate in maintaining a huge radar shield over their combined land mass which can detect incoming missiles or craft from any direction. Because land-based missiles from the old USSR would have probably come by the shortest route, which is over the North Pole, this early warning system, now called the North American Aerospace Defence Command (NORAD), is especially strong in that direction. The NORAD operations centre is inside Cheyenne Mountain near Colorado Springs in the Rocky Mountains. NORAD is answerable both to the Canadian Prime Minister and the US President. (More information about NORAD can be found on the Internet at: www.space.com.af.mil/norad/index.htm To complete the radar shield there are also huge radar beams facing West, South and East from the North American coast, so that nothing that is detectable by radar can fly into Canada or the USA from any direction without tripping this system. This means that any radar-detectable UFO that is seen by the public anywhere within Canada or the USA must fall into one of these four categories. It must have been detected by the radar system as it flew past the coastline, or in from space, or It must have somehow got through the system undetected by using stealth, inter-dimensional travel or something of that nature, or It must have come from an underground or underwater alien base located within Canada or the USA, or It must be a craft owned by either the US or Canadian government or a member of the public such as a well financed inventor. This may be one reason why Western air forces these days do not seem very interested in UFO reports from the public. They probably already have all the details they need on a tracking computer somewhere. The US military also has its own missile tracking system separate from its NORAD cooperation with Canada. This system extends into space and around the planet. The US Air Force Space Command runs something called SPACETRACK which provides data on satellites and missiles from its network of sensors around the world, including NASA's tracking systems. SPACETRACK also gets information from the US Navy Space Surveillance System (NAVSPASUR) which operates a line of radar stations running from Georgia to California that transmit a fan-shaped radar beam into space to a height of about fourteen thousand kilometres. This system can detect and calculate the orbital characteristics of any satellite or other object breaking the beam. (Hobbs, p.76) SPACETRACK is also linked to something called the Ground-based Electro-Optical Deep Space Surveillance System (GEODSS) which consists of a world-wide network of 100 centimetre telescopes linked to low-light-level television cameras which are powerful enough to provide real-time pictures of an object as small as a football in geostationary orbit 36,000 kilometres above the ground. By now these cameras may be even more sensitive and include infra-red sensors. I assume that this means that, if a UFO or mother-ship is detected by radar somewhere in orbit around the planet, one of the GEODSS telescopes somewhere on the planet can be asked to film it within minutes. There are GEODSS telescopes in New Mexico, South Korea, Hawaii, Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, Portugal (Hobbs, p.80) and probably several other places. This would suggest that someone within the US military-intelligence community by now has a whole video library of state-of-the-art UFO footage. To show how coordinated the US military's early warning systems are, it is interesting to read a 19th August 1998 press release from the US Air Force News Service which detailed the retirement of General Howell M. Estes III after thirty-three years in the US Air Force. Before his retirement General Estes simultaneously held three positions. He was the commander in chief of NORAD (CINCNORAD) which meant that he "was responsible for the air sovereignty of the United States and Canada, as well as providing tactical warning and attack assessment." He was also the commander in chief of US Space Command (USCINCSPACE) which meant that "he commanded the unified command responsible for directing space control and support operations." And finally, he was commander of US Air Force Space Command (COMAFSPC). In that job "he directed satellite control, warning, space launch and ballistic missile operations through a worldwide network of support facilities and bases." General Estes it seems had a very responsible position, but the press release neglected to say whether tracking UFOs was also a part of his job brief. His replacement is General Richard B. Myers. The US early warning system is not limited to the North American continent. They have installations on friendly territory around the planet, occasionally in places one has never heard of. Some of them have remarkable capabilities, for example the Cobra Dane radar system, located on the Aleutian Islands near Alaska, "is sensitive enough to detect a grapefruit-sized metallic object at a distance in excess of 2,200 miles [3,500km]. In its tracking mode it can simultaneously handle up to 200 objects at ranges of up to about 1,250 miles [2,000km]." (Hobbs, p.76) I wonder how many UFOs they have tracked over the last twenty-five years and who got to look at the radar tapes. There is little point in having such marvellous technology if an intelligence analyst somewhere does not get to see the data it produces. What evidence is there that such US radar systems are actually used to track UFOs? In an article called 'The Roswell Incident: Fragments of Evidence' by Linda Moulton Howe she quotes an anonymous informant's recollections of what his grandfather, who claimed to have been on the Roswell crash retrieval team in 1947, had told him about the military's concern about UFOs entering US airspace. The grandfather claimed they had "recommended to the President that a Space Program be set into motion and that a system of satellites be placed into orbit by 1957, and this satellite system be patched into the DEW Line system (Distant Early Warning radar stations at 70th parallel across North America) which later became NORAD (North America Radar Defence). Grandad stated that it was his opinion that NORAD was formed not only to track possible ICBMs from hostile nations, but as an established detection system for UFO craft." Although this claim does not constitute concrete evidence, it would be very puzzling, if not irresponsible, if the US military was not doing their best to track UFOs. After all, it's not as if they are short of (taxpayers') money. Further evidence that NORAD may be involved in tracking UFOs is to be found in an article called The 'Colorado Connection' by Graham Conway in Flying Saucer Review. Conway gives several examples of Canadian residents who had rung their local air force base to report seeing a UFO, only to find themselves patched through to someone in NORAD, Colorado who took the details. SATELLITE SYSTEMS. So far we have only discussed ground-based tracking systems which are limited by their inability to see beyond the horizon, although over-the-horizon radar can see further. However nothing compares to the view from space. In my opinion using satellites to detect and/or track UFOs would be the most cost-effective method because such systems are already paid for, are already there watching out for nuclear missiles, and are already classified. Any extra work they did would go unnoticed. But their most important advantage is that satellites can see a huge area of the planet at one time. Most surveillance, communication and weather satellites are 'parked' in what is called geosynchronous or geostationary orbit. This means that the speed at which they naturally orbit the planet matches exactly the speed at which the planet rotates. That means that, when seen through a telescope from the ground, the satellite appears to be stationary. This illusion occurs because the ground that the viewer is standing on is actually moving at the same speed as the satellite. Therefore, if you want your surveillance satellite to monitor a particular area of the planet you just park it in a geostationary orbit above your target area, and it effectively just sits there looking down. One of the disadvantages of this system is that everyone else who can afford it is doing the same thing. The geostationary orbit above the equator is by now so crowded with satellites that they will soon have to install parking meters up there. Another disadvantage is that geostationary orbit is about 36,000 kilometres above the ground which means that getting a clear picture isn't easy. Add that to the fact that the ground beneath the satellite may be covered by clouds, and spends half the day in darkness as the planet revolves, and one begins to see why the spy satellite business is so expensive. The field of view or 'footprint' of a geostationary surveillance satellite covers an enormous area of the planet. For example a satellite parked over the equator near Singapore would be able to see a circle beneath it that extended from above the Arctic circle in the north to below the Antarctic circle in the south and from a line roughly joining Cairo to Moscow to the west to well past New Zealand to the east. This is a vast area that includes most of Russia, the whole of Asia, the Indian Ocean and Australia. With this kind of coverage one only needs to maintain three such satellites evenly spaced around the equator to be able to view the entire planet except the North and South poles. To function effectively, a surveillance satellite must transmit the data it has recorded to a receiving station on the ground that is in line of sight beneath it, because electromagnetic radiation will only go in straight lines. That is why the receiving stations for any geostationary satellites that are looking at Russia, Iraq, Pakistan, India or China must be on the same side of the planet as those countries. And from a geopolitical perspective, the most suitable place to locate such satellite bases is in Australia. PINE GAP. There are two US satellite bases in Australia that are known to the public: the first is called Pine Gap and is located near Alice Springs in the Northern Territory, while the second, called Nurrungar, is in South Australia, five hundred kilometres north-west of Adelaide. There exist several conspiracy theories about these bases, especially Pine Gap, that are beyond the scope of this article. However it should be pointed out that UFO researchers who publish conspiracy theories about these bases who have not read the previously mentioned well documented books about them are not doing very much for their credibility. Admittedly these books do not mention UFOs, but they are still important starting points for serious research. According to Professor Ball the satellites that report down to Pine Gap are Signals Intelligence (SIGINT) ones. SIGINT can be broken up into Communications Intelligence (COMINT), "the interception of foreign communications transmitted by radio or other electromagnetic means", and Electronic Intelligence (ELINT) which "consists of information derived from monitoring foreign non-communications electromagnetic radiation". ELINT can further be broken up into Telemetry Intelligence (TELINT) which is "concerned with monitoring of foreign telemetry signals such as those produced in missile tests" and Radar Intelligence (RADINT) "which involves the monitoring of foreign radar emissions." (Ball, 1988, p.2) SIGINT satellites also listen to foreign satellite communications. More details of what all this means are in Ball's book Pine Gap. Processing and analysis of the huge volume of information produced by these satellites are handled by the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), the National Security Agency (NSA) and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Because its SIGINT satellites operate as giant vacuum cleaners in the sky, sucking up electromagnetic data, rather than as tracking satellites, it would seem unlikely that Pine Gap has anything to do with tracking UFOs. This does not preclude the possibility that Pine Gap may have some sort of black UFO related mission(s) hidden behind the classified missions already discussed. Professor Ball is a little vague as to whether Pine Gap also has a Photographic Intelligence (PHOTINT) mission. However an article in The West Australian newspaper (Saturday, 7th September 1996) claimed that Pine Gap "is reportedly one of the earth stations for orbiting US photographic reconnaissance and electronic intelligence satellites." So, do any Pine Gap satellites take photos of UFOs? There is a significant technical difference between taking satellite photographs of fixed ground locations and taking them of small fast moving aerial objects like UFOs. If the Pine Gap satellites do have PHOTINT capability they could probably only take photographs of UFOs if they received appropriate real-time tracking information about their location, unless they had actually landed on the ground. As far as we know, providing tracking information is not what Pine Gap does, but it is what Nurrungar does. (A Pine Gap Internet site can be found at ) www.octa4.net.au/marlinw/ NURRUNGAR. The United States satellite station at Nurrungar is a ground station for the US Defence Support Program (DSP) whose geostationary satellites provide the US Air Force Space Command with its first warning of the launch of any nuclear missiles in the event of nuclear war. During the Gulf war they were also used to detect the launching of Iraqi Scud missiles. In other words DSP satellites are designed to detect and track flying objects. To do this they are equipped with 3.63 metre Schmidt infrared telescopes, visible light and ultraviolet sensors, and nuclear detonation detection (NUDET) sensors. The infrared detectors are designed to sense the radiation emitted by nuclear missile booster rockets after they have been launched . The ultraviolet sensors are designed to detect fluorescing gases around the booster rockets or missile nose cones during their flight. Visible light television cameras on the satellites are also able to transmit pictures to the ground station when necessary. UFO researchers will be interested to note that Professor Ball quotes Philip Klass as an expert on the equipment carried on these satellites. (Ball, 1987, p.22) The NUDET sensors can detect certain nuclear particles, gamma-rays and x-rays from nuclear explosions. (The Joint Defence Facility Nurrungar home-page can be found at www.roxby.net.au/~gumby/JDFN/index.html How clearly a satellite that is thirty-six thousand kilometres away can see what is happening down near the ground is highly classified, but one has to assume that DSP satellites, and any more recent versions, have the capability to see things that are as small and fast moving as nuclear missiles, otherwise they would be ineffective. It seems therefore that these satellites would be ideal for tracking UFOs. They wouldn't even need to be told to do it, they would track them automatically because of UFOs' resemblance to various missiles. We know that UFOs sometimes radiate very brightly. It is suspected that this is caused by plasma (fluorescing atmospheric gases) surrounding the craft. We also know that UFOs often interfere with radios and televisions which suggests that they do emit some sort of radiation. Given all the different electromagnetic frequencies that DSP satellites can detect, it would probably be safe to assume that they are able to detect and track at least some UFOs and have been doing so for some time. The tracking and film recordings of these craft from such satellites would surely by now have revealed some interesting intelligence. For example, by correlating this tracking data with geographical locations one could perhaps get a better idea of what UFOs are actually doing. A single sighting from a witness on the ground may not tell us very much, but the cumulative data from say ten years of satellite tracking in Australia or anywhere else, including the large proportion of the planet that is covered in water, would present a very different statistical picture. Some questions to be asked would be, are there more sightings near population centres, do they follow power lines, are they following some sort of grid pattern, do they revisit the same locations at fixed intervals, are they looking at known mineral deposits, or magnetic anomalies, or military bases, or is there no discernible pattern in the sightings? As more data is accumulated, the more revealing and sophisticated such an analysis could become. Different radar signatures for different types of craft could be gathered as well as technical data on acceleration and speed characteristics. Such tracking data might help us discover whether some UFOs have underground or underwater bases. Unfortunately we must assume that whoever or whatever is operating UFOs isn't stupid. They may have very capable stealth or deception techniques that enable UFOs to pop in and out of view all over the place in a manner that completely befuddles any unfortunate intelligence analyst trying to find a pattern in the sightings. An example of evasive action taken by aliens can be found in an article called 'Another Astonishing South American Report' by Flying Saucer Review consultant Jane Guma. It describes the case of Orlando Jorge Ferraudi who in August 1965 was taken, fully conscious, into a UFO while fishing by a river on the coast of Brazil. The UFO then set off under water. Using telepathy, an alien explained that this was to avoid radar. After a while they emerged from the sea and flew at a low altitude to the coast of Uruguay, before crossing the Atlantic Ocean to Africa from where they flew upwards into space. The alien supposedly explained that "We must take these precautions so that we can thus avoid being regarded as invaders or conquerors. We want your people to get used to us slowly, to see us just as like anybody else, because we are not strangers in this part of the Universe." (Guma, p.7) It does however seem strange that the aliens would take such elaborate measures to avoid detection while explaining them to a human so that they eventually get published in a UFO magazine for everyone to read. Being able to detect and track UFOs in real time would also enable the military to see at once if any of them had crashed. The nearest rapid-deployment recovery team could then be alerted to ensure that any live aliens were apprehended, the UFO debris cleared up, and an appropriate cover story concocted before the media and local authorities got in on the act. By ensuring fast and efficient crash retrieval such a tracking system would contribute to depriving the public of irrefutable evidence of the reality of UFOs, and facilitate the reverse engineering of recovered debris before anyone else got their hands on it. BLACK PROJECTS How likely is it that a satellite station such as Nurrungar is tracking UFOs in addition to its other classified duties? In an article to advertise his book Above Black: Project Preserve Destiny Insider Account of Alien Contact and Government Cover-Up, retired Staff Sergeant Dan Sherman, who claims to have worked for the National Security Agency as an Intuitive Communicator with aliens, explains how US government extraterrestrial programs are hidden. He claims that behind the usual categories of Secret and Top Secret exist what are called 'Unacknowledged Special Access Programs' (USAPs) otherwise known as 'black' programs. These tightly compartmentalised programs operate on a need-to-know basis. Behind them exist the most highly classified programs which are the extraterrestrial related ones. This ensures that every alien project is carefully camouflaged behind another black project. This classification system makes good sense and could easily operate at Pine Gap or Nurrungar. Even those personnel with above Top Secret clearances might not know that a few of their colleagues spend some of their time accessing a highly restricted part of the computer system that receives and analyses UFO tracking data. It is a common requirement in such work environments to activate a password controlled screen-saver on your computer terminal every time you get up from your desk. It might be claimed that, quite apart from stealth technology to prevent satellites from tracking them, UFOs might not emit sufficient electromagnetic radiation to be detected by DSP satellites. However in a detailed technical article in the MUFON UFO Journal called 'Do Our Satellites See UFOs', Ronald S. Regehr addresses this question and concludes that the electromagnetic intensity of at least some UFOs "is certainly detectable by today's technology satellites, thus effectively proving that at last one of our spy satellites could detect UFOs." (Regher, p.18) While this article has only discussed information about US radar and satellite systems that has almost certainly been superseded by more advanced technology, it must be remembered that an increasing number of other countries are launching sophisticated satellites that may be able to track UFOs as part of their surveillance missions. Such countries include Great Britain, France, Japan and China, with several others in the pipeline. This fact alone may provide some pressure on the United States to come clean about the UFO phenomenon rather than suffer the possible embarrassment of another country releasing such information before they do. References A Pine Gap Internet site can be found at: http://www.octa4.net.au/marlinw/ Ball, Desmond. (1987) A Base For Debate: The US Satellite Station at Nurrungar. Ball, Desmond. (1988) Pine Gap: Australia and the US Geostationary Signals Intelligence Satellite Program. Conway, Graham. (1998, Autumn) The 'Colorado Connection'. Flying Saucer Review, Volume 43/3, pp.20-21. Guma, Jane. (1997, Winter) Another astonishing South American report. Flying Saucer Review, Volume 42/4, pp. 6-10. Hobbs, David. (no date) An Illustrated Guide To Space Warfare. Howe, Linda Moulton (1997, August-September) The Roswell Incident: Fragments of evidence. Nexus Vol.4, No.5, pp.73-77. How the NSA communicates with grey aliens. (1998, Feb-March) Nexus, Vol.5, No.2, p.61. Pine Gap references: http://www.octa4.net.au/marlinw/pine_gap_sites.htm Regehr, Ronald S. (1994, April) Do our satellites see UFOs? MUFON UFO Journal, No.312, pp.6-9. Richelson, Jeffrey T. & Desmond Ball. (1990) The Ties That Bind: Intelligence Cooperation Between the UKUSA Countries. Sherman, Dan. (1997) Above Black: Project Preserve Destiny Insider Account of Alien Contact and Government Cover-Up. The Joint Defence Facility Nurrungar home-page: www.roxby.net.au/~gumby/JDFN/index.html US Air Force News Service. (1998, August 19) http://nacomm.org/news/1998/qtr3/estes.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 8 Russian Booster - What The Heck...? From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 16:46:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:52:44 -0400 Subject: Russian Booster - What The Heck...? Does anyone know what the heck this is about? Evidently, it is now claimed that these Russian boosters can cause an "electrical effect on ground-based supply systems" when they re-enter. That is according to Ross Dowe of the National Space Center in Melbourne, who made the strange comment in response to last week's sightings in the Western United States and also in Australia. Perhaps Mr. Dowe might want to impart some clarification on this issue... -------------- Russian rocket startles Sydneysiders Australian Broadcasting Corporation Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:45 AEST BREAKING STORIES Residents in northern Sydney have reported seeing a large cylindrical object moving across the sky this afternoon but they have been told not to panic. Ross Dowe from the National Space Centre in Melbourne has contacted NASA in the United States, who say it is a Russian booster rocket which has come into the earth's atmosphere. "We're now getting reports out of the United States that it appears to be a Russian booster rocket that's come in and it has caused an electrical effect on ground-based supply systems in the south-west of America." Mr Dowe said. "NASA apparently have sent up chase planes to find out what has gone on and that's the information we've got at this point." � 1999 Australian Broadcasting Corporation -- UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: UFO Report - Gallatin, Tennessee: 9/7/99 From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:40:56 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 01:30:26 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Report - Gallatin, Tennessee: 9/7/99 >Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 16:33:35 -0400 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO Report - Gallatin, Tennessee: 9/7/99 Hello all, it appears :"The game's afoot." >This UFO report was received by E-mail yesterday. Some follow-up >questions were answered this afternoon, and here are some >details: >DATE: September 7, 1999 >TIME: 10:15 a.m. Central Standard Time >LOCATION: Gallatin, Tennessee >DESCRIPTION OF EVENT: >A hovering silver-colored object was spotted over a wooded area >near a residential subdivision. After a 30-second duration, the >object literally vanished from sight. >ADDITION: >Enclosed below is the original E-mail report sent by the >claimant: >________________________ >"I was driving to my new house in a new subdivision, when I >spotted an object flying slowly about a quarter mile away. I >looked at it again and noticed that it was not casting a >reflection on a sunny day without any cloud cover at all. It was >a bright metallic silver object, unlike any aircraft that I have >ever seen. The object was moving very slowly, almost hovering Gee, a Russian Booster! >over a wooded area that was being developed in this >new subdivision on the north side of Gallatin, TN. >"I turned off my car and got out to see if I could hear anything >and make sure it wasn't a reflection in the window of my car. It >was there, plain to see. >"It was cylindrical in shape and moving ever so slowly. The >object had absolutely no sound. Within 10 seconds, the object >just disappeared from my sight-that is a good description as I >don't know how else to describe how it vanished. Obviously the Russian Cloaking Device. >"I am a 37 year old white male. I was the only witness to my >knowledge. I am a business professional in Gallatin, TN. I do >not drink much and haven't had a drink in some several weeks. I >am not taking any medication. I have never reported a sighting >before. Nor have I ever been treated for any psychotic or >psychological disorders. You are welcomed to contact me via >E-Mail should you need to speak with me on this matter." Well, friends this Middle-Aged Celt, Portuguese, Native American, German, Turk (probably Jewish Turk too), who drinks Beer on a regular basis, though not without some prudence, believes this fellow. >-------- >FOLLOW-UP: >A series of questions had been posed to the witness, which he >replied to accordingly. Enclosed below are his answers;. >__________________ >*I was alone, so I don't know if anyone else saw the object. The >object was near a populated area. There was an existing >subdivision about a quarter of a mile away and the object was in >sight of it or anyone who lived there. However, that is the only >populated area in that locale. >* I did not hear any sound. In fact, I turned my car off and got >out to listen for sound, but I heard none. >* The object was visible to me for about 30 seconds. >* The time of day was 10:15 PM Central Standard Time. >* I was on the north side of Gallatin and I was driving north.. >The object was in the northern portion of Gallatin, west of my >location by a quarter of a mile. Boosters, by the nature of Physics, don't survive Re-Entry relativley intact. As with the Sydney sighting-a clylinder? Booster? (re: Russian Booster what the He... on this list) >ADDITIONAL COMMENT: >The name and address of the claimant can be forwarded privately >to interested parties, but is being excluded from public >release. >Although there is no information suggestive of a relationship, >we should be mindful whether or not this sighting may correlate >with another spate of sightings over Tampa Florida on the same >day, in which many in the Tampa area were told that a Russian >booster rocket had fallen into the Gulf. An alleged video of >this sighting was reportedly broadcast on a local Fox-13 News TV >station, and was described by one person as resembling a >'triangular-shaped object.' >Filed; >September 8, 1999 >Kenny Young >-- >UFO Research >http://home.fuse.net/ufo Who knows what this whole thing is, I surely don't . GT McCoy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 9 CPR-Canada News: New Crop Circles in Prince Edward From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:15:47 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 01:34:05 -0400 Subject: CPR-Canada News: New Crop Circles in Prince Edward CPR-Canada News News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 New Crop Circles in Prince Edward Island September 8, 1999 _____________________________ Editor: Paul Anderson _____________________________ The previous unconfirmed report of new circles in the province of Prince Edward Island has now been verified. Two circles were discovered in a blueberry field in Christopher Cross, near Tignish, PEI, on Canada's eastern coastline, according to an article in the August 28 edition of the Charlottetown Guardian newspaper. The two circles were 18 feet and 12 feet in diametre. The farmer, Bernard Handrahan, found them about two weeks prior to the article (sometime in mid-August), and described them as perfectly circular with untouched centres. No picture printed with the article. More details when available. This is the eighth report now for this year so far. Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada _____________________________ Circle Phenomena in Canada Report Archive 1999: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html A reminder for all Canadian subscribers / readers - your assistance is welcome and needed - ANY reports of other possible circles this year, please do let us know as soon as possible! See Reporting and Field Research Guidelines on the web site for more information: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reporting.html REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522 _____________________________ CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International), and is published periodically or as breaking news develops, with the latest news and information and is available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or "unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.c CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions. Forward all correspondence to: CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Office Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 � Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 1999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 9 [uforc] UFO Resource Center Buzzed By UFO From: Christopher Montgomery <uforc@wa.freei.net> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 03:11:04 +700 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:10:37 -0400 Subject: [uforc] UFO Resource Center Buzzed By UFO U.F.O.R.C. NEWSLETTER: Breaking News September 9, 1999 THE TRUTH IS IN HERE: ***************************** UFO Resource Center Incident Report September 8, 1999 at 8:30 pm (PST) ***************************** UFO RESOURCE CENTER BUZZED BY UFO U.F.O.R.C. by Christopher Montgomery Investigator on the scene: Dear friends; I am writing this E-mail to inform you of breaking news here at the UFO Resource Center. We saw a spectacular event that took place near the UFO Resource Center, over the little town known as Auburn and Kent, Wa. A triangular UFO caused quite a stir with the military. A power failure to a diesel generator that operates the pump for the town's drinking water also occurred. Here is our story: Around 20:30 hours, I was working late on the computer, trying to store some files and prepare my latest post on the Internet. Matt came busting into my office: "Chris, where are those binoculars. I told them where they were at and he quickly disappeared down the hallway. Five minutes went by, and all of a sudden, I could hear the roar of a huge helicopter flying over the compound. I bolted out of the office, sensing something was amiss. When I got to the back deck, I found Matt, watching something in the sky. The conversation went something like this: C.M. "Man, did you hear that...it sounded like a military helicopter," I said. M.C. "Yeah, you know it flew right over the house!" C.M. "It couldn't of been more than 10 feet above the roof. It sounds like they are trying to stay below radar." There was silence for a moment. "I want you to take a look at something," MC said." He handed me the binoculars. By now it was around 8:45pm on Wednesday, September 8, 1999. He pointed it out to me. I studied the object carefully. It had three lights. One red light was on top in the center. The aircraft was tilted at a 25-degree angle from the horizontal. It seemed to be moving sideways as it maintained the same position. "I'll be damned! I think it's a UFO." I continued to watch as the huge military helicopter loomed into view. "You're not talking about the helicopter?: I asked. MC replied "No, I was talking about that string of lights behind it in the distance... I saw it move like this (Matt makes a zig-zag motion with his hand, palm parallel to the ground." I pondered that for a moment. The zig-zag maneuver was a classic UFO stair-step. The three lights configured in a triangular formation reminded me of something that I had seen in the late spring of this year at our office in Auburn, Washington. Same configuration of lights, could be mistaken for an airplane, but upon close examination, it reversed itself with the lights in the same configuration. The object I was watching right now, was a classic triangular UFO which everyone in Auburn and Kent had been reporting for years. IF this was the same object (and it looked identical and matched all of the eyewitness accounts to date), then this was indeed a genuine UFO. We watched it maneuver in such a way that it appeared to be watching US! For example, for a good 20 minutes, it stayed within eyeshot near the office, as if it was watching us. It would go south-westerly and then back north-easterly without turning. This further suggested a UFO. I have got to tell you, this was starting to get interesting. I ran into the building and grabbed anyone I could just to get a third witness. MM just happened to be there, so I asked my friend if they'd come out and look at the strange lights in the sky. They obliged. When they got outdoors, I pried the binoculars from MC. I yelled "Let MM have a look." She examined the object for about 2-3 minutes. She turned white as a sheet. She seemed to be visibly shaken, and I know that she saw the same thing that we had seen. I asked MM what she thought it was. There was no reply. She was dumbfounded. I don't think she has ever seen a UFO. After a long pause, I asked her again, rephrasing the question: "Do you think it was a plane?" Again, there was no response. She stood and watched it for a while. I examined my watch. It is 9:00 o'clock pm. MARK! I do this to make sure that an official time was announced for the event, to be recorded later. It is always easier to remember that way. We observed the UFO for about 15 minutes as it behaved very strangely. It did not look like a conventional airplane. When it moved, the object's body would turn while in one spot. It would go sideways as the light was pointing away from its destination. I continued to watch it until it disappeared behind a tree. I asked MC: "Do you think it is a UFO?" His answer was "It's a good possibility." I continued to watch the object. I suddenly found myself alone on the rear terrace. The object's lights had been doing funny things. One time when it turned, the lights breezed over me, very faintly illuminating the surrounding area, including myself. It made me want to shudder, as I don't think these were earthly lights. That observation didn't really hit home, until I watched it go north, level with the crest of the Hill we are perched on, and go north up the valley, practically at eye level. It was a cream or beige color, dimly illuminated, as if the color was a result of the illumination. It had three, distinctive lights on each point of the triangular shape and when I viewed it as a profile shot when it went up the valley, it was very thin. I will narrow it down to three-four possible explanations at this point. 1. Experimental Aircraft 2. An airplane 3. A triangular and/or geometrically shaped object 4. A true Unidentified Flying Object It wasn't until much later in the evening, when I would realize that it was definitely a UFO. After the object disappeared, I had to run to the store to pick up some office supplies. I went to the store and upon my return, I discovered that the water had been shut off. I wondered; did it have anything to do with the UFO? My thoughts turned to the UFO again, and the fact is that I didn't realize until much, much later, that when it turned and illuminated me earlier, it also affected the diesel generator that supplied the town's drinking water supply. When I went to use the tap, I discovered that the water had been shut off. I made the connection when I saw the town's water department trucks over at the site of the generator, looking over the tower, the equipment, etc. I just checked the water... it has been turned back on. Our investigation shall continue. We will keep you posted, and if we hear of any additional information in the future, we'll update you. For now, Regards, Christopher Montgomery (Investigator) UFO Resource Center (U.F.O.R.C.) In our next newsletter: More UFO reports, crop circles and the freshest UFO research. Don't miss a single issue of the U.F.O.R.C. Newsletter. Our website address is--> http://www.angelfire.com/wa/UFORC The UFO Resource Center welcomes your UFO reports and alien contact experiences. Please forward all correspondence to: E-mail UFORC@wa.freei.net OR by mail to our offices at: 23906 Westview Court, Kent, WA USA 98031
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Tampa Bay Mystery Lights 'Rocket's Red Glare' From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:49:22 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:08:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Tampa Bay Mystery Lights 'Rocket's Red Glare' http://www.sptimes.com:80/News/90899/TampaBay/Mystery_lights_turn_o.shtml But I don't buy this explanation ; ( Do you? Seems like these "booster" rockets are a convenient cover story. It used to be meteors, temperature inversions, or the planet Venus, now it's Russian boosters. If this is true, why aren't our local civil defense authorities concerned about warning people in populated areas on falling booster tonnage? And why are "Russian" boosters all of a sudden falling across US territory?? That last "booster" (item # 25761) which fell over the Western part of the country wasn't even in NORADS catalog! See: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/media/mailing/archive/skywatch/msg06842.shtml I think these "official" mainstream newspaper stories and quick explanations about "booster catalog parts" and are obviously nothing more than disinformation to dissuade the general public from getting too concerned about something which the government wants to keep a lid on for whatever reason. We deserve to know what the he_ l is going on! HEADS UP!! Naz Graffeo www.ufoseek.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 9 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 20 From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> (by way of John Hayes <webmaster@ufoin fo.com>)> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 14:56:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:13:32 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 20 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 4, Number 20 September 8, 1999 Editor: Joseph Trainor MASS SIGHTINGS REPORTED IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST On Wednesday, September 1, 1999, hundreds of residents of the USA's Pacific Northwest reported seeing seven or eight "flaming" UFOs crossing the sky. Both the UFO Reporting Center in Washington state and Coast to Coast, Art Bell's popular radio talk show, received many faxes from northern California, Nevada, Oregon and Washington state. Most of the sightings took place between 9 p.m. and 9:30 p.m. One witness claimed to have seen several F-15 fighter jets from the Oregon Air National Guard take off from the international airport in Portland four minutes after the UFO overflight. Jet interceptors "on full afterburner" were reported around Bend, Oregon (population 20,469.) Later in the week, Coast to Coast released summaries of the sightings reports, including (1) "Seven or eight 'flaming' UFOs heading 'in formation' from northwest to southeast at a low altitude and at a surprisingly slow speed.." (2) Eight UFOs 'with flaming tails traveling from west to east" taking "one-and-a-half minutes to cross the sky." (3) "Seven to eight 'flaming objects in a straight line' traveling in formation from northwest to southeast. One broke formation, and one joined the formation." Former U.S. Air Force officer Jerry Rolwes, director of MUFON for Washington state, contacted NORAD headquarters in Colorado and discussed the sightings with Major Nouis, Air Force Public Affairs officer. According to Rolwes, Major Nouis explained that the sighting was caused "by a Russian rocket engine, NORAD Catalogue Number 25761," which was part of a Russian SL-12 supply rocket launched from the Baikonur cosmodrome on February 28, 1999. The SL-12 "reentered Earth's atmosphere at 10:11 p.m. (9:11 p.m. Pacific time--J.T.) at 17,000 miles per hour," resulting in the trail of flaming space debris seen by the witnesses. (Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for this story.) (Editor's Comment: There may be some questions about the timing of this particular display. See the following story.) UFOs AGAIN ACTIVE IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA On Sunday, August 22, 1999, at 11:25 p.m., Ralph S. spotted "a small glare that seemed ata very high altitude" over the city of San Jose, California (population 782.248), located 44 miles (70 kilometers) southeast of San Francisco. "I noticed the object only because I was staring out the window," Ralph reported, "It moved very slowly, then stopped in mid-air and hovered for approximately 15 minutes, then disappeared. I would have thought it was a star, except that I saw it move and then stop." The object, which he described as "white and bright," "became smaller before it disappeared." On Wednesday, September 1, 1999, at approximately 9 p.m., a couple in Chico, Cal. (populatioon 40,079), a city on Highway 32 about 77 miles (123 kilometers) north of Sacramento, the state capital, spotted a formation of fast-moving UFOs heading in a northeasterly direction. "They thought it was a meteor shower," the man's mother reported, "I thought it was the strangest one I had ever heard of. They saw a large (maybe one-half inch in perspective) object trailing a long tail behind it and a number of smaller objects. Also another five to seven that seemed in formation or on course. Two or three smaller objects appeared to be descending at that moment. They traveled behind and 'above' the formation. The objects all vanished from sight shortly afterwards." (Many thanks to Kiki for this report.) (Editor's Comment #1: Interesting! Kiki's family in Chico saw the UFO formation ten minutes before the Russian SL-12 rocket reentered the atmosphere.) (Editor's Comment #2: Chico, California has a notorious reputation for Fortean events. In addition to countless UFO sightings, the city has experienced several weird incidents. These include (a) the crash of a mysterious object, made of "hard material" in March 1885; (b) a rain of catfish and perch from a cloudless sky on September 1, 1878; and (c) a shower of rocks "that fell from the clouds" onto a warehouse for weeks beginning March 13, 1922. See the book Weird America by Jim Brandon, E.P. Dutton, New York, N.Y., 1978, pages 22 and 23.) HOVERING UFO SIGHTED IN BRIDGEPORT, OHIO On Tuesday, August 31, 1999, at 10 p.m., Susan N.H. "went outside to look at the stars, as I normally do" and "saw some cold, colored lights to the northwest" in Bridgeport, Ohio (population 2,318.) "I went and got my binoculars and looked to see if it was the thing I always see. It was--I couldn't make out any shape at all because it was so far away. But I could see lights running around it--red, yellow, blue and green." Susan immediately telephoned a friend and told her about the sighting. The friend said she had seen similar lights recently over the water tower to the northeast of Bridgeport. Susan asked her to check it out right then and there. "She called back to say she also saw a UFO over the water tower, and we went back out to have a look. It was also blinking the same colors. In the few minutes we were outside, it moved upwards but was still 'hovering.' They're around here a lot, always in the same position and at the same time of year." Bridgeport is located in the Ohio River valley approximately 2 miles (3 kilometers) west of Wheeling, West Virginia. (Email Interview) TWO TUBULAR UFOs SEEN OVER INDIANAPOLIS Two tube-shaped UFOs performed "flashing light" aerial maneuvers in broad daylight over the Castleton Square Mall, located in the northeast section of Indianapolis, Indiana (population 731,327). According to eyewitness V.G., "While on break, I witnessed two objects pass overhead from direct south to the northeast, over the (mall) parking lot. These objects had the appearance of butterflies in flight...They passed overhead to the northeast and then leveled out at 75 to 80 degrees off the horizon. There was a lot of white blinking or flashing taking place with the objects." Between the periodic flashes, V.G. discerned "a grey tube-like object." He added that the UFOs "did a 'spiral-like dance' as they chased each other. The dance continued for several minutes" before the UFOs sped away to the north. V.G. described the objects as "one-eighth of an inch in size and 75 degrees above the northeast horizon." (Email Interview) CROP CIRCLE CLUSTER FOUND IN SASKATCHEWAN On Friday, September 3, 1999, Dave Robertson found a cluster of ten crop circles while swathing a wheat field in Neilburg, Saskatchewan, Canada. According to local farmer Laura Herle, the circles "were definitely not there last week when he (Dave) was fertilizing that field." The cluster consisted of "three 'arms' of circles coming out from a larger central circle. The centre circle is about 25 feet (7.5 meters) in diameter, the others range from four feet (1.3 meters) to 22 feet (6.7 meters) The 'top' two circles and centre circles are clockwise; the others are all counterclockwise, all with very neat swirling and flattening of the crop. No tracks, paths or other damage was found" in the field by investigators." "The whole pattern is about 200 feet (60.6 meters) across." Acording to Paul Anderson of Circles Phenomenon Research-Canada, this is Canada's seventh formation of 1999 and the first to be found in Saskatchewan this year. Neilburg (population 90) is on Provincial Highway 40 about 132 miles (211 kilometers) northwest of Saskatoon. (Many thanks to Paul Anderson of CPR-Canada for this news story.) BIZARRE SYMBOLS APPEAR ON JAPANESE CAR COMPUTERS "Hundreds of people in Japan complained Sunday," August 29, 1999 "after their automobile navigation systems went haywire-- the result of a Y2K-like glitch in the satellite system used in navigation devices worldwide." "Screens went blank, and bizarre symbols turned up on the electronic navigators, essential for millions of drivers in a country where urban streets are a chaotic jumble." There was chaos in heavy traffic in several areas of Tokyo, including Takadanobaba, Shibuya and Shinjuku, reported Tomo T., a UFO Roundup reader in Japan. "Some of the symbols resembled the crop circles." "Pioneer Corp., a major manufacturer of car navigation systems, received about 600 calls on its Help hotline, said company spokesman Hidehiko Shimizu." "Shimizu said callers were referred to the nearest repair shop, where their systems were fixed for free." "The breakdows stemmed from a glitch in the Global Positioning System (GPS)--a navigation system that uses a series of satellites to pinpoint exact locations on Earth." "But the systems were only designed to count to 1,024 weeks. That maximum was reached Saturday," August 28, "so the time clocks on the locators were resetting to zero," creating havoc in the dashboard computers of Japanese automobiles. (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for September 4, 1999, auto section, page 4, "Hundreds of cars in Japan hit by GPS glitch.") UFOs SIGHTED NEAR GLASGOW, SCOTLAND On Saturday, August 21, 1999, at 6 p.m., J.K. was with some friends in Cumbernauld, a suburb of Glasgow, Scotland's largest city, when the group spotted an unusual object in the sky. "The object was witnessed by a few people," he reported, "And I could not identify what I was seeing, and I wanted the others to witness it." The UFO "went initially east, then southeast, then northwest. It was white or silver. At first it was stationary, then moved dlowly east, then southeast. It then went behind some clouds and appeared 15 minutes later. When it changed course and went northwest, it disappeared in the clouds totally." "I showed my wife and her friend, and they saw it also. When it disappeared and reappeared, I went to my neighbour and asked if he had his videocamera. He also saw the object, as did his daughter." On Thursday, August 26, 1999, at 10 p.m., a couple driving through Monkton, Ayrshire, Scotland, UK, a town about 60 miles (96 kilometers) southeast of Glasgow, "when in the sky above them there was a bright blue flash." "The 'light' then shot down towards them and then hovered above the car for a number of seconds, before 'travelling' away in the opposite direction" from the motorist's direction. "The 'light' was only a matter of feet above the vehicle and blocked out their windscreen (windshield in the USA--J.T.) The couple was terrified but otherwise unharmed." (Many thanks to Dave Ledger of UFO Scotland for these reports.) GIANT TRIANGULAR UFO FLIES OVER ISRAEL On Thursday, July 22, 1999, at 7:30 p.m., residents of Tsfat and Yokneam, two small cities in northern Israel, spotted a large dark triangular UFO with bright lights at each of the three corners. According to Israeli ufologist Barry Chamish, the UFOs "were videotaped in both places." Alerted by others in Israel's ufological community, researchers Doron Cohen and his uncle, Dr. Rami Shkalim, were ready in the city of Yavre when the "flying triangle" passed overhead. Yavre is 48 kilometers (30 miles) west of Jerusalem. In Yavre, "two hundred witnesses, in three groups, saw the UFO," Chamish reported. Cohen and Dr. Shkalim "viewed the craft until it disappeared at approximately 12:30 a.m." on Friday, July 23, 1999. Dr. Shkalim had his Sony 320 videocamera with him and shot ten minutes of footage. The video showed "a craft with two silvery lights, both surrounded by perfectly circular red auras twice their size. Then the craft seemed to turn, and we saw a tiny third light at the left." The UFO then emitted "two spirally-turning lights, like twirling fireworks, before the craft disappeared to the west." Dr. Shkalim and his video appeared on the morning talk show, Good Morning, Israel. Dr. Shkalim holds Ph.D. degrees in both physics and philosophy and is professor of the Kabbalah at Bar Ilan University. (Many thanks to Barry Chamish for letting UFO Roundup quote from his report.) SCUBA DIVER MISSING IN LAKE MICHIGAN TRIANGLE "Rescuers continued searching Sunday," September 5, 1999, "for a 52-year-old man who disappeared Saturday afternoon while scuba diving with friends, officials said." "The U.S. Coast Guard used three boats, a helicopter and an airplane to search for the ,am, who was reported missing about 2:40 p.m. Saturday, according to Senior Chief Howard Hathaway of the Sturgeon Bay (Wisconsin) Coast Guard (station.)" "The search was halted Sunday afternoon." "Friends of the missing man, an experienced diver from Iowa, told officials they were exploring the sunken vessel Lakeland in 170 feet of water." "The diver, whose name was not released, was last seen at 80 feet, where he appeared to be in trouble, the Coast Guard said." Sturgeon Bay, Wis. (population 9,176) is on Highway 57 approximately 155 miles (248 kilometers) north of Milwaukee. (See the Milwaukee, Wis. Journal-Sentinel for September 6, 1999, page 28, "Search continues for missing scuba diver.") (Editor's Comment: Sturgeon Bay is said to be a nexus of the Lake Michigan Triangle. Two schooners vanished just east of this Lake Michigan port--the Ottawa in 1911 and the Rouse Simmons in 1913.) STRANGE ATTACK ON A HORSE IN WISCONSIN A mysterious attack on a horse near Eau Claire, Wis. (population 56,856) is now being investigated by the state Department of Natural Resources (DNR). DNR officials "are investigating whether a gash in a horse, closed with about 40 stitches, was caused by a bear." "Tom Wright, owner of the 8-year-old mare, Breeze, and his wife, Ruth, called the natural resources department Saturday," August 28, 1999, "after Ruth Wright noticed the wound." Eau Claire is on Interstate Highway I-94 approximately 241 miles (385 kilometers) northwest of Milwaukee. "'If this is in fact an animal that's causing the problem, we'll do everything we can to make sure it's controlled," said a DNR official named Weitz. (See the Chicago Tribune for August 31, 1999, "Possible bear attack probed.") from the UFO Files... 1919: TROLLS GO ON MANEUVERS On a late summer's night in 1919, thirteen- year-old Harry Anderson, his family and some friends went for a drive in the family's new Ford Model T automobile. At about 10 p.m., as they were headed back to Eau Claire, Wisconsin, the car's engine began running a little rough. Papa Anderson eased it to a halt on the southbound lane of Highway 25. "We're running low on oil," he said, handing the oil can to his son. "Head on up the road, Harry, and see if you can get some old farmer to lend you some." And so, with the empty oil can swinging from his hand, Harry hiked down the darkened road. A roadside sign told him he was just outside Barron, Wis., about five miles west of Rice Lake. Seeing the roof of a farmhouse on the horizon, he took a shortcut across a cornfield. The farmer filled Harry's oil can for him, and, "as he was walking back, he saw twenty little men walking towards him in single file. They had bald heads and white skins, and wore leather 'knee-pants' held up by braces over their shoulders. (Lederhosen in Germany-- J.T.)" Startled, Harry ducked behind a red maple tree, staying out of sight as the dwarfish platoon marched by. His ears caught fragments of their conversation, mostly mutterings and a quirky little song. "We won't stop fighting Till the end of the war In Nineteen-Hundred and Ninety-Four. Sound off--one, two Sound off--three, four Detail, one, two, three, four One--two...three--four! The column marched on into the forest, leaving Harry, in his own words, "heart pumping and terrified." (See Fate magazine for November 1978, "Encounters with Little Men," page 85.) (Editor's Comment: An end to war in 1994? What a bunch of optimists!) That's it for this week. Join us next week for more UFO news from around the planet, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then! UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1999 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. -------------------- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:45:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:16:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite >From: Maxwell Burns <maxwell.burns@virgin.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Tracking UFOs by Satellite >Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:01:48 -0700 >Tracking UFOs by Satellite By Simon Harvey-Wilson <snip> > The NORAD operations centre >is inside Cheyenne Mountain near Colorado Springs in the Rocky >Mountains. NORAD is answerable both to the Canadian Prime >Minister and the US President. NORAD does track UFOs, that includes any unknown entering our atmosphere - meteors, rocket boosters, etc., and NORAD tracks them VERY closely. I and my children have seen this process in action. On a warm night in June, 1997 (two weeks after I saw a moon-like UFO in the same area), my daughters and I were in the pool talking and looking at the sky to the north when we saw something suddenly crash/explode less than a mile from our location. The entire northern sky lit up as bright as day. I turned to my daughter standing next to me and asked her if she saw it too and she said yes. We both figured it had been a meteor or something that crashed back there. Within 4-5 minutes a helicopter came from the southwest flying straight to the area where the crash/explosion had occurred. It began circling and searching the area with two bright spotlights shining down on the ground (got it on video). It searched the area with the spotlights and would sometimes land for about 5 minutes then go back up and circle and search some more then land and search, land and search. This went on for about 20 minutes then the helicopter flew off to the southwest. I assumed it had left for the night but left my camera set up just in case and jumped back in the pool to escape the ants and mosquitoes. About ten minutes later the helicopter returned from the southwest and began searching, circling and landing again for another 20 minutes (video taped, of course). Then it flew directly over us with the spotlights shining down and flew off to the south. I called the local authorities and airports but no one knew anything about what had happened back there and no one knew who had dispatched the helicopter. There is nothing back there but open fields. Something came through our atmosphere and was probably tracked by NORAD for that helicopter to have arrived so quickly after the event occurred. I was more impressed by that helicopter getting there so soon than I was by the actual event. Ever since I have known, without a doubt, that someone is watching our skies _very_ carefully. Amy Home Page: "http://members.tripod.com/TheVanguard"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 9 UDN News - 09-09-99 From: Renzo Cabassi <ufodatanet@mail.asianet.it> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:43:40 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:25:29 -0400 Subject: UDN News - 09-09-99 We are glad to announce that at: http://www.ufodatanet.org you will find an article by Massimo Massimo Silvestri, entitled Introduction To Seismic Lights Abstract The aim of the paper is to present and describe a particular geophysical phenomenon that sometimes occurs in coincidence with earthquakes, that of seismic lights. Noted since ancient times as a precursory sign of an earthquake, over the last two centuries the subject of seismic lights has aroused great controversy between those considering them to be real lights and directly linked to the earthquake, and those instead believing them to be fantasies imagined by the terrified victims of the earthquake. Only in the last thirty years, after the emergence of concrete evidence such as the photos taken during the earthquakes registered at Matsushiro in Japan between 1965 and 1967, has the scientific community started to conduct studies (on which this paper is based) in an attempt to understand this rare natural phenomenon. The intention of the article is to introduce readers to the existence of this interesting geophysical phenomenon, reviewing and analysing the various optical phenomena observed, like lightning, flashes, light rays, luminous mist and whirlpools of light, terminating with incredible luminescent globes that in both appearance and behaviour recal globe lightning. A selection of past and recent cases reported in Europe, Asia and the Americas will be presented. An attempt will be made to take stock of the current position of research, presenting a panorama of the various theories proposed to clarify this enigma. In addition an account will be given of the analyses made at the beginning of the 20th century by Ignazio Galli, the first person in Italy to study these strange phenomena, leading him to publish in 1910 one of the earliest catalogues, listing 148 cases of earthquakes in which various types of light phenomena had been noted. Readers may ask why a theme like this should be included in a site dedicated to the study of UFO phenomena, or why some ufologists have recently taken a deep interest in scientific disciplines that regard real phenomena which occur however only very rarely, such as seismic lights, globe lightning, St Elmo's fire, air glow or other 'luminous atmospheric effects'. These are all phenomena far removed from what at first sight, and also according to 'common sense', would seem to be the specific sphere of interest that regards UFOs. The rationale, we feel, lies in the growing awareness that a number of the as-yet unexplained cases of UFO sightings (excluding, naturally, all those cases in which the insufficiency makes identification impossible) can find a valid and definitive explanation in these rare and unusual 'natural' phenomena, that are understood only partially and on which the scientific community is attempting to shed light. We believe that this is a correc t way to attempt a scientific approach to the thousands of reports from all over the world concerning the observation of anomalous aerial phenomena. Please, feel free to contribute with your comments and original articles about UFO phenomena. _______________________________________________________________ cabassi@mail.asianet.it - ufodatanet@mail.asianet.it RENZO CABASSI - tel./fax 051 239088 cellulare 0330 727361 **Coordinamento Nazionale Progetti di Studio e Ricerca** http://ufodatanet.org Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici - C.I.S.U. *011 3290279* http://arpnet.it/~ufo
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 10 Filer's Files #36 -- 1999 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:53:09 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:57:44 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #36 -- 1999 Filer's Files #36 -- 1999, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern September 9, 1999, Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 Since the first of the month, there has been a spectacular display of the reentry of Russian space debris into our atmosphere as UFOs dart around at lower altitudes. IN NEW YORK DISCS MOVE ACROSS THE MOON BRONX - On August 28, 1999, Peter Davenport the Director of the National UFO Reporting Center (NUFORC) obtained a sighting report from an amateur astronomer. He was using his Meade ETX90 telescope and a 8 mm camcorder. To record his observations of the moon at 10:00 PM. The astronomer stated he observed a round disc-like object moving across the face of the moon twice!!! He recorded the two objects on video tape through his telescope using 48X magnification. The moon was in the east/southeast at the time. The object was round with no lights or distinguishing marks. The discs moved across the face of the moon in a straight line. The objects made no sound. After recording the first object I continued to observe, just a minute or so later, and I saw the same thing again, going in the same direction. I don't know if it was the same object or a second one. I did see two round discs, at two different times. They had no lights or anything, they were just round, black and moving across the face of the moon. I couldn't tell their distance from me, and I didn't have a chance to see them with the naked eye. I was recording when I saw them, so I have them both on tape. As an astronomer, "My conclusion is that it simply is a UFO. No doubt about it!" Thanks to Peter Davenport Director of NUFORC. http://www.UFOcenter.com NEW JERSEY EDISON -- Ed L. writes, "On November 18, 1996, we were traveling northbound on the New Jersey Turnpike when I saw a very fast object which appeared to be in trouble or crashing. I was looking out the passenger side window at 8:00 PM discussing the airplanes making their approach to landing. After a few minutes, the planes were no longer visible as the skies appeared quiet. Then the object appeared moving many times faster than the speed of a plane. At first, I thought it might be a meteor, but I realized it was resonating a light frequency that seemed to be a message. The communication was, "Do not repeat what you see"... "Its Okay"... "No alarm" It was too large and moving much slower than any meteorite. I immediately realized that it was a UFO. It was as bright as an exploding transformer, if you have ever experienced that sight. It was only a few hundred feet away on its speedy descending path with its erratic occulting appearance. It bounced like a buoy in the bay. I knew it was in trouble and about to crash. It went down so quickly that I felt I should cover my eyes. Expecting to see an explosion, I tuned to my associate who was driving and said, "Did you see that?" We had the quick usual discussion, "They'll think we are crazy!" After assuming it must be a UFO, it appeared again and started gaining altitude. It rose for about 9 seconds; and moved directly west over a bridge gaining speed. The UFO made an ascending 45 degree turn toward the north. It accelerated to a very high rate of speed darting through the slight high cloud cover and shot out of our atmosphere as if it was projected from a sling-shot. I am so surprised that it would do this in plain view of us and the other vehicles on the New Jersey Turnpike. Thanks to Tom Sheets ISUR and Ed L. at nxlu@aol.com PENNSYLVANIA ABDUCTION FROM AIR FORCE BASE BENTON AIR FORCE STATION --I retired from the Air Force in 1990 as a Chief Master Sergeant. I was on the SAC Nuclear Disablement Team for many years. We would respond to any incidents/accidents or problems with nuclear weapons. I know of an incident that occurred on March 5, 1965, at Benton Air Force Station, Red Rock, Pennsylvania. Benton was part of the Air Defense Command Interior Radar Defense Zone. Two radar technicians (one being my brother) were repairing the height finder radar antenna located northeast of the 648th Radar Squadron site. An "object" described by my brother as being a small saucer shaped object landed nearby. The two technicians decided to investigate. As they approached the saucer, a beam of light came out and struck both technicians. That was the last they could remember, and they failed to report to their command post. Air Policeman went to search for the two technicians, but they could not be found. All their tools and equipment were located near the antenna they were fixing. The Pennsylvania State Police were alerted and a search of the area began. Sixteen hours later, a state trooper found the two technicians walking on Route 487 about 10 miles from the site south of Lopez. The two technicians seemed dazed and were transported to a hospital in Williamsport. They were examined and found to be dehydrated and confused. No alcohol or drugs were found in their system. They were later transferred to an Air Force Hospital at Stewart AFB, NY. Trace amounts of alpha radiation were found on their clothing and strange marks were discovered on their necks. Special Agents from the Office of Special Investigations interviewed the technicians. They related their story up to the point of the beam of light. They could not remember anything after that. A psychiatrist wrote in the report that each technician experienced something they could not fully explain! They both spent two weeks in the hospital and were released back to their unit. My brother was reexamined at the Air Force Psychiatric Center, Sheppard AFB, TX in 1966. During a session with an Air Force psychiatrist, the doctor asked him if he thought he was abducted by extraterrestrial visitors! That was the first time anyone ever mentioned a UFO connection to my brother. My brother thought the Air Force knew. He told me years after the incident, he had nightmares about creatures poking instruments into his eyes, ears, and mouth. My brother served out his tour and was honorably discharged. He went onto college and worked for Boeing Aircraft Corporation until he retired in 1994. He won't speak about the incident. Thanks to CMSgt. Walter. MUFON OF VIRGINIA - SIGHTING & ALLEGED ABDUCTION VINT HILL FARMS BASE -- Richard Lang Assistant State Director VA MUFON writes, "We recently investigated a sighting and alleged abduction which took place on a now closed military base in Northern Virginia." We initially responded to a newspaper article about the case. In corporation with the Fauquier County Sheriff's Office we were able to locate this woman and conduct an investigation on the base. We found the following: On June 27, 1999, a 44 year old woman was attending a camp out with her daughter. At around 2:00 AM she felt compelled to leave the camp out and told one of the other adults she was going home. Her daughter stayed all night with the other adults. She drove in her van to a now closed military base, in Fauquier County. She parked in a parking lot next to a picnic area just outside the fence. She got out of her van at 2:50 AM and sat at the edge of the parking area looking at the full moon. Then she noticed a bright blue light approaching the area. The light approached from her right side and as it got closer she noticed it was egg shaped and was the color of blue Kool-Aid. The object hovered over a clump of trees in the field about 200 yards away. The egg shaped object was hovering on the inside of the Vent Hill Base fence. She saw three humanoid beings suddenly appear under the object. They were little guys, only 3 to 4 feet tall who appeared to be gathering soil samples. She remembers hearing her watch chime for 3:00 AM and the beings heard it and noticed her. They started moving toward her. Her next memory was waking up inside her van with the doors locked at 6:00 AM the next morning. She described herself as crying and shaking like crazy. She was afraid and could not remember what happened. Several weeks after her experiences, she told our investigators that she started to have dreams related to the experience at the base. She has remembered what she thinks happened during the missing three hours. During our video taped interview, she said that after her watch chimed the beings began to approach her. She claims that the beings came through the fence and stood on each side of her with one behind her. The three beings took her back through the fence to the still hovering object. She was floated up in a very bright light beam that was shining down from the bottom of the hovering craft. She was led into a room, and was put on an examination table. She does not know how they got her on it. They then examined her and the next memory was waking up inside her van. We think there may be other witnesses to this event or others like it in this area and ask that they contact Richard Lang on the toll Free Hot Line # 1-888-556-6760. Thanks to Richard Lang, richard.lang@crestar com. KENTUCKY FLORENCE � A UFO video was shot on August 21, 1999, and delivered to the Greater Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky Airport's Video Production Department. The 90 second long hi-8 mm videotape was shot by a resident of Florence. It shows a strobing �beacon-light� that is cast against the night-sky at 10:50 PM. The rapidly strobing white or bluish-colored light zippingly blinks arbitrarily, with no pattern or consistency. This lack of regular pattern to the blink is most notable when viewed in slow-motion. There is some question if the light is one singular headlight, or �several� strobing lights situated around a larger object. The gentleman who took the video said that he had ten-years in the Air Force. He observed a bouncing, flickering light to the south of him near Walton. He said, "It wasn't any airplane that I'm familiar with. It kept bouncing and jumping around, back and forth." He got his camera and put it on a tripod to record the object. The object disappeared by dropping down beneath the trees. Thanks to Kenny Young , UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo/ TENNESSEE GALLATIN � At 10:15 AM a hovering silver-colored cylindrical object was spotted over a wooded area near a residential subdivision on September 7, 1999. A business professional states, "I was driving to my new house, when I spotted an object flying slowly about a quarter mile away." I noticed that it was not casting a reflection on a sunny day without any cloud cover at all. It was a bright metallic silver object, unlike any aircraft that I have ever seen. The object was moving very slowly, almost hovering over a wooded area. "I got out of my car to see if I could hear anything. "It was cylindrical in shape and moving ever so slowly with absolutely no sound. Within 10 seconds, the object just disappeared. "I am a 37 year old male, and haven't had a drink in weeks." Thanks to Kenny Young --UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo/ FLORIDA TAMPA � The above sighting may correlate with sightings over Florida on the same day, in which many in the Tampa area were told that a Russian booster rocket had fallen into the Gulf of Mexico. An alleged video of this sighting was reportedly broadcast on a local Fox-13 News TV station, and was described by one person as resembling a 'triangular-shaped object.' Kenny Young -- UFO Research IOWA PILOT SEES FLYING TRIANGLE SEEDING CLOUDS DUBUQUE � An airfreight pilot flying a twin engine Beech Baron BE-58 aircraft reports that on August 23, 1999, he spotted a thumbnail sized triangular object. The craft was maneuvering at approximately 5000 feet above my altitude of 5500 feet Mean Sea Level (MSL). The Flying Triangle was depositing material into small cumulous clouds north of Dubuque. During a moon rise in the eastern sky at 11:20 PM, an object caught my attention moving at an unusually high rate of speed. As I looked upward and focused in on the object, I made out a dark blue or almost black triangular craft flying grid patterns in a north to south and east to west pattern. I estimate his altitude was 5000 feet higher than my cruising altitude or 10,000 feet MSL. As I watched more intensely, I noticed the craft was leaving behind it's travel path a gray misty contrail, that seemed to be slowly falling into small puffy clouds between myself and the craft. When the Flying Triangle made a change of direction, it was done very abruptly. Ninety degree turns were made with no gradual change of direction, they were instantaneous. I estimated it's rate of travel to be in the 500 to 800 knot range. Nearly 10 times that of my rate of speed. The craft had no lights, the only way I could see it was by the reflection of the moon light since it was a near full moon last night. After losing the craft behind a bank of clouds I no-longer saw it. After flying for an additional 12 minutes, I witnessed particles descending or falling past my aircraft. They almost looked like snow flakes, but the air temperature was near 50 degrees Fahrenheit, according to my outside air temperature probe. The particles appeared to reflect a gold light when tumbling in the moon light. I traveled through the particles for 20 minutes at 5500 feet with visibility dropping from 10 to 3 statue miles forward visibility. During this time period my lungs began to feel inflamed and irritable. I also felt a burning sensation and tried to keep my breathing rate at a low rate during this time. My symptoms disappeared once I left the particles. I never saw the craft during the rest of my four hour trip. It was very strange. This is the only report I am making as of today as I fear for my job security by reporting this sighting. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director NUFORC. http://www.UFOcenter.com WISCONSIN DEPERE -� On September 6, 1999, a husband and wife observed objects almost directly overhead at about 8:45 PM. The objects were headed slightly east and veered south zigzagging and doing circles. Movement was erratic and unlike an aircraft, satellite or meteor. There was no visible tail or colored lights. My husband has a good eye for things and when he saw the lights he got his binoculars. Although we could not see exactly what it was, we did see that the unidentified object was not following the same definition as other things in the sky. We are curious as to what this could be? Thanks to: UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo/ TEXAS FLYING TRIANGLE LAKE WHITNEY - On August 21, 1999, the two married witnesses were delivering newspapers throughout Rural Bosque County at 3:00 AM. They observed an unusual set of lights hovering too low to be a star. They stopped and saw the object move up and even lower. During the next hour, they noticed that no matter what direction they turned, the object was always right in front of them. Further south, they saw two sets of lights. They stopped at the highest point in Bosque County heading towards Clifton. The northern most light shot straight up and disappeared. The second object moved closer and took on the shape of a triangle and its three lights flashed multi colors. After about 15 minutes, the witness reports we made our way further south when my wife said, "It looks like a giant triangle!" I immediately stopped the truck and saw that between the 3 sets of lights it appeared to be a huge Flying Triangle. As we watched the lights suddenly got bright enough to light up the deer like daylight. I got on the CB radio to ask if any of the local truck drivers were observing this? But the radio and my truck just went dead! Suddenly, just as quickly, it was dark and my truck started back up. We went back to work and observed this object zip from one side of us to the other and then back again! We observed this till about 6:00 AM when as we made our way across the Whitney Dam the triangle suddenly it shot up and to the side and was gone! Thanks to Peter Davenport Director of NUFORC. http://www.UFOcenter.com CALIFORNIA FLYING TRIANGLE TRAVIS AIR FORCE BASE � Steve Moreno reports, "My 13 year old neighbor, Ben, spotted a 300 feet long triangular ship flying slowly over our house at about 300 feet altitude on September 2, 1999." It traveled in complete silence with a 75 feet of glowing blue flame exiting out of its entire 100 feet rear base. It was estimated to be 75 feet thick. After traversing across the sky for a minute in a NW to SE trajectory it suddenly just disappeared. Within ten minutes afterwards Ben, and his Mom, claim they heard a storm of activity coming from Travis Air Force Base. Since Ben has lived within a mile of the base all his life, he normally doesn't take notice of something overhead. He knows a C5 Galaxy Transport when he see one. He was able to summon his Mom who observed the craft before it disappeared. I was amazed at the thoroughness and detail of his report with pertinent measurements. He plays football so he knows his distances. Similar reports were noted from Napa and Novato. Thanks to Steve Moreno Director Psi Applications http://psi-app.com RUSSIAN BOOSTER REENTRY AUSTRALIA AND WESTERN USA SYDNEY -- NSC Multimedia reports that witnesses saw a huge burning white cylinder shaped object crossing the sky around 2:45 PM on September 1, 1999. The object headed to the east northeast and was seen for about two minutes. The object was later witnessed by thousands in Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Arizona, Utah and Canada generating numerous reports. MUFON Washington State Director Jerry Rolwes writes, "In my pursuit of an explanation as to what was happening, I called the Air Force Public Affairs office for the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD), Peterson AFB, Colorado." They control the management for the Cheyenne Mountain Command Post complex. I spoke to a USAF Major Nouis at (719)-554-3714. The bottom-line is this. It was a spectacular event, but not a major UFO event. Major Nouis reported that it was a Russian rocket booster; NORAD catalogue item number 25761. Specifically, it was a center motor part from a Russian SL 12 rocket launched February 28, 1999. It reentered the earth's atmosphere at 10:11 PM Mt. Time/ 0411 Greenwich mean time. Speed upon reentry was approximately 17,000 MPH. I asked Major Nouis about the comment made by some callers that the USAF said this item was to reenter in a few more days. Major Nouis stated that these items are reentering the atmosphere worldwide on a very frequent basis and some more of the junk may be arriving in a few days. This information is not classified. It just doesn't take much to check these things out. Before, we in this UFO research business start declaring something a UFO, we may all wish to check out the facts. Major Nouis said, "It was possible that a piece of the motor could have crashed along the Nevada/Utah border." Power outages can be checked with local power companies. Accuracy in UFO research is not that difficult to come by with a few phone calls. I hope this info will be of value. Thanks to: Jerry Rolwes MUFON WA 509-327-4868, grolwes@aol.com Editor's Comment: The objects, ranging from one to seven had glowing trails and at times were seen to "break apart" and shoot off in different directions. It should be noted that reports to NUFORC claimed the objects had maneuverability, including what one witness described as a "U-turn." Reports from Utah three hours later placed the objects still in the air. Perhaps both UFOs and space debris was seen. CANADA BRITISH COLUMBIA -- On August 5, 1999, the witness, Ray, was observing the night sky when he saw an object about the size of his thumbnail held at arm's length. It was two miles away over the mountain behind Ruskin Dam. It had red, white and blue lights revolving around it. He phoned the RCMP and two patrol cars arrived with four officers. There were 12 friends, relatives and police watching using binoculars for two hours. Thanks to Bill Oliver, oliver2849@home.com UFO BC GET THE BEST REALTORS and HELP UFO RESEARCH As a special aid to our readers, we can provide you with the best real estate experts in your area at no cost to you. If you obtain your own agent, you may not know how long have they been in the business? And how good a producer are they? I can provide free relocation information and top agents from the largest and most respected real estate firms. If you are planning to sell or buy a home and would like a top flight real estate agent e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com or call 609 654-0020. Please provide your name, phone number, address, price, and location. U.S. GOVERNMENT UFO PROOF RELEASED: Audio tapes of a genuine UFO Alert at Edwards Air Force base and studied by the Foreign Technology Division at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, are now available for distribution to the public. Lunar Astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell was at Edwards the night the UFO chase occurred. The 6th person to walk on the moon said, "The night it happened I investigated it myself and this was a real event." Sam Sherman's audio documentary tape called THE EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER on the night of October 7, 1965, uses the actual voice recordings provided by the Air Force. During this event 12 high tech luminous UFOs invade secure air space and came down low over the runways at Edwards AFB. Tower operator Sgt. Chuck Sorrels spotted them and notified the Air Defense Command. Sgt. Sorrels is heard on the original tapes and in a new segment where he verifies the event as it is heard on the archival recordings. The UFOs are described and a decision is made to launch F-106 fighter interceptors. Your there for an important part of UFO history. Hear it for yourself, its the best UFO tape ever made. Tape cost is $14.95 each plus $2.00 for shipping -- total $16.95 -- you can send either a personal check or money order to: Independent International Films, Box 565, Dept. GF, Old Bridge, New Jersey 08857. MUFON JOURNAL For more detailed investigative reports subscribe by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or E-mail Mufon@aol.com. Filer's Files Copyright 1999 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on their Websites provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. Send your letters to me at Majorstar@aol.com. If you wish to keep your name confidential please so state.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:29:18 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:59:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite >NORAD does track UFOs, that includes any unknown entering our >atmosphere - meteors, rocket boosters, etc., and NORAD tracks >them VERY closely. I and my children have seen this process in >action. >On a warm night in June, 1997 (two weeks after I saw a moon-like >UFO in the same area), my daughters and I were in the pool >talking and looking at the sky to the north when we saw >something suddenly crash/explode less than a mile from our >location. The entire northern sky lit up as bright as day. I >turned to my daughter standing next to me and asked her if she >saw it too and she said yes. We both figured it had been a >meteor or something that crashed back there. >Within 4-5 minutes a helicopter came from the southwest flying >straight to the area where the crash/explosion had occurred. Hi list, This helicopter reminds me of something that has always been unclear to me. The USA has Air National Guards. Like the Arizona Air National Guard that was active around the time of the Phoenix UFO sighting two years ago. I guess each state has an Air National Guard. Now my question is what is their function? Obviously, the USA is not under military threat from its neighbours, Canada and Mexico. And to the west and the east lie vast oceans. So why have military aircraft and helicopters in operation on the USA mainland while they don't serve an obvious purpose?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 10 CPR-Canada News: More Saskatchewan Crop Circles From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:21:45 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:07:58 -0400 Subject: CPR-Canada News: More Saskatchewan Crop Circles CPR-Canada News News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 More Saskatchewan Crop Circles; "Sightings on the Radio" Interview September 9, 1999 _____________________________ Editor: Paul Anderson _____________________________ MORE SASKATCHEWAN CROP CIRCLES Preliminary Report - September 9 It would seem the circles have definitely returned to the prairies again this year... Another formation reported to CPR-Canada this morning by a farmer at Conquest, Saskatchewan (where another formation was found last year). Initially discovered around September 2 by farmer Lyle Ami while combining his wheat field. Two circles, one about 36 feet and the other 30 feet in diametre. Both have an identical "cross" feature attached, both pointing to the south-east (very similar to last year's report, where one circle had a similar cross attached to it, also pointing to the south-east). The formation is about four miles south of Conquest, south-east of Neilburg, where the eleven-circle "Julia Set" was found September 3). The farmer has combined around the formation, leaving it intact, and is open to further ground inspection, sampling, etc. Ground photos already taken and hopefully aerials to follow soon. Farmer reported no damage to the crop, no entry pathways or other signs of damage. Preliminary diagram attached. This is the ninth formation reported now for this year. SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO INTERVIEW I am also scheduled to do an update on the Canadian circles tomorrow evening, September 10, on Jeff Rense's "Sightings on the Radio" program, 8:30 - 10:00 PT. Check their web site (http://www.sightings.com) for further program and affiliate station information. Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada _____________________________ Circle Phenomena in Canada Report Archive 1999: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html A reminder for all Canadian subscribers / readers - your assistance is welcome and needed - ANY reports of other possible circles this year, please do let us know as soon as possible! See Reporting and Field Research Guidelines on the web site for more information: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reporting.html REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522 _____________________________ CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International), and is published periodically or as breaking news develops, with the latest news and information and is available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or "unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.ca CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions. Forward all correspondence to: CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Office Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 � Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 1999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Introduction To Seismic Lights From: Moderator, UFO UpDates Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:19:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:19:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Introduction To Seismic Lights >From: Erol Erkmen <andromeda1@turk.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Introduction To Seismic Lights >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:01:12 +0300 >>Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:43:40 +0200 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: CABASSI <ufodatanet@mail.asianet.it> >>Subject: UDN news Erol & Massimo, Before we get too far into the discussion of the merits of 'Siesmic Lights' and UFOs, would those interested please go to The UFO UpDates Archive at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates and search the names Paul Devereux & Chris Rutkowski. Back in early 1997 there was some fairly intense discussion regarding Persinger's and Devereux's ALP theories. Thanks, ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Introduction To Seismic Lights From: Erol Erkmen <andromeda1@turk.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:01:12 +0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:58:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Introduction To Seismic Lights >Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:43:40 +0200 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: CABASSI <ufodatanet@mail.asianet.it> >Subject: UDN news <snip> Dear Massimo Massimo Silvestri, My friends and I who have been closely following ufology have read many abstracts dealing with the relationship between UFOs and earthquakes. This is an interesting topic that has always been in the corner of our minds. When doing research for our Black List Page, the phenomena that appear to come from other planets, we've seen that most were natural phenomena and we have partly explained them. The phenomena connecting balls of light to earthquakes seem to be separate topics. Balls of light were observed as materials or particles falling from the sky; burning and scattering light as they enter the atmosphere (please see our webpage for more info). However, this phenomenon related to earthquakes is an expression of underground movements. Many names have been given to this phenomenon since it has not yet been totally explained. Unfortunately it still does not have one common name. There was also similar confusion on our pages but the latest reports that we've received and the recent earthquake we have just lived through have shown us that we need to take another look at this subject. We would like to request from our friends who read our pages to be aware of ALP's and to report any of their observations or research on this topic to us. To have a better understanding of this phenomenon, let's combine the Tectonic Strain Theory with our own ideas and formulate our own theory. Our first inclination would be to give this phenomenon a Turkish name but, this would distance us from the rest of the world so for the time being we will also call it ALP (Anomalous Luminous Phenomena). The originator of this concept is Michael A. Persinger, Ph.D. from Laurentian University Sudbury, Ontario, Canada. Although it still may appear as a UFO, the ALP is being brought to light. UFO's observed in Nevsehir and the lights that have been followed all over the world are actually an indication of a paranormal event occurring underground and indicating important changes in a specific region. There are many reports that prove our theory and we will publish some of them on our pages. We all know about crystals and that there are many in nature. The quartz crystal is especially interesting as it gives off vibration in the presence of an electric current and it produces electricity when it is vibrated.It has many scientific applications due to this special feature. These crystals, when rubbed together, give off sparks/light.Sometimes there are movements at the cracks in the crust of the earth.We call these cracks fault lines (the breaking and movement of the layers of rock that forms the crust of the earth).The seismic movements on the crust rub these separate pieces together. The earthquake can continue until the fault line discharges all of its energy. Balls of light are generally formed at a time close to this very high energy discharge that is produced, with the help of crushed crystal particles if there are crystalline structures present. The formation and color of these balls of light differ due to atmospheric pressure. Balls of light can sometimes hang in the air for a long time and may move - usually soft turns and up and down movements due to changes in atmospheric pressure. The soil in Nevsehir has similar properties. Magnetic fields formed underground produced the long observed UFOs. The colors of these light balls change according to the condition of the gases in the atmosphere; for example when carbon dioxide increases they give off a blue color. If our theory is correct, when an ALP is formed, seismic movements can also be observed in that region. You can find many examples (ALP video record 1.5Mb please visit our site) in our FORUM area if you search the archives. But the latest example is here. A verification report (please click) and an effective proof: EARTHQUAKE ! Another example is the ALP observed in Sefakoy and the earthquake that followed. We will continue to collect information about ALP's whenever possible. We believe that serious research about this phenomenon will result in a decrease in the number of deaths resulting from earthquakes by providing an early warning signal. From all our friends who read our pages, we request that you remain open and aware to the presence of ALP's and report any unusual observation to us. We as TUVPO know from our research that there is the effect of the ARGON gas in the discovery of the source of A.L.P. We also know that normally only 1% of Argon gas is found in the atmosphere but that this amount increases before an earthquake. ARGON is also used in neon lights. This gas glows in air probably by the triggering of the statical electricity. Statical electricity increases with the friction of the fault lines. If we can prove here the relation of the seismic movements with A.L.P, which we beleive there is, woudn't the detection of the Argon gas and the measurement of the statical electricity be a signal for an upcoming earthquake? We request from the scientists to support this project, to publish their thoughts and discoveries here and even to be able to find a sponsor for this project and have a chance for better and deeper research. (please visit our page for more info and alp pics,videos) PLEASE JOIN THE PROJECT ALP http://members.tripod.com/~ufolojist/deprem.html Erol Erkmen TUVPO Chairman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 10 'ETs'? & Ground Traces In Montreal, Quebec From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:07:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:00:28 -0400 Subject: 'ETs'? & Ground Traces In Montreal, Quebec Source: Journal de Montral Saturday, August 21, 1999 Translation by Michel M. Deschamps Someone Believes They Saw "Entities" At Grand-Mre by Robert Leblond Two small beings in white that were surveying a garden The central office of the AQU (Association Qubecoise d'Ufologie) recently pondered on a rather uncommon case. "The call concerned a sighting report made by a woman residing in Grand-Mre of which the description of the events remain one of the most mysterious to have been given to us since the creation of the AQU," said chairman Gilles Milot. On site Three AQU representatives, along with representative Pauline Mongrain, who crossed the St. Maurice (river) in order to verify the authenticity of certain facts observed by the witness, went over to see this information for themselves. "It was 8:30 p.m. on the night of October 24th, 1998 when Mrs. H, coming out of the shower, saw two biological entities completely covered in white from head to toe, who seemed to be very interested in the neighbour's garden, in this case her sister," related Milot. These two entities were described by the witness as being dressed like astronauts, wearing some kind of helmet on their heads. "One of the creatures was leaning over and seemed to be picking something up off the ground. The other stood nearby. According to the witness, when they walked, they seemed to float; their walk was unnatural. Their size and physical appearance were similar to that of humans." Behind these two mysterious beings, the witness saw a thick fog made up of different bright colour nuances, of which the predominant colour was brown. Diameter "The glow had a diameter of approximately 25 to 30 feet and was located 75 feet from the witness' house. Nowhere else was the fog present. After about three minutes of observation, realizing what she was seeing, the witness pulled away from the window and, a few moments later, when she returned, the entities had disappeared and the fog was moving away in the opposite direction." "When visited by our representative, ground traces were noted and photographed. There were four of them; two measuring 12 inches in diameter and two, 10 inches. Soil samples were taken and will be analysed as soon as possible. We have also visited Mrs. H's sister and we have noticed that where the entities were seen, there was a garden consisting of a variety of vegetables. The main witness is 72-years-old, an independent and intelligent person who does not want any publicity. She saw something real, but what was its origin, that's what we are attempting to find out," admits Milot, faced with this puzzle. Last Spring, after the thaw set in, we discovered holes 2 inches in diameter and 8 inches deep of which the dirt was different than the rest of the garden. The witness drew a sketch of what she saw that night. Who dug these small holes? Last May 5th, the representatives of the AQU went to the observation site along with the eyewitnesses in the hopes of finding other clues. - Robert Leblond "We have recreated the setting by asking Mrs. H to show us where the entities were. With precision, she showed us the spot," explains Gilles Milot. That's when five identical holes of 2 inches in diameter by 8 inches deep were discovered. Photos were taken. Some footprints which seem to correspond to club-feet were also noted. Soil samples were collected and the members of the AQU noticed a great difference in the texture of the dirt. "The dirt found inside the holes seemed to have been completely sieved and was brown in colour, while the dirt outside the holes (from 1 to 20 feet away) was of a thick consistency and rich like normal garden black earth," said Milot. "We are very perplexed about this report. This observation is very mysterious and brings together, in one event, most of the elements that we encounter in many other reports." "We're continuing our research, but we seek the help of your readers so that they can tell us of other similar cases elsewhere in the province of Quebec. Reports In the United States, many reports make mention of such entities that have been seen collecting soil samples at different locations. The AQU is a non-profit association which is made up of volunteers who investigate events with paranormal characteristics. They can be contacted at (514) 865-0546.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 11 French COMETA Report & UK UFO Magazine From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:02:44 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:39:30 -0400 Subject: French COMETA Report & UK UFO Magazine To the List, I have been asked by the COMETA Association, authors of the French report 'UFOs And Defense? What Must We Be Prepared For?', to post this information, following the publication of my summary in the British UFO Magazine (September-October issue). UFO magazine has reproduced pictures without authorization, and has made mistakes in their captions. Page 30: General Letty is not the spokesman ("media liaison official") for the group. He is not "Chief of Air Force liaison between NATO and France. He was, from 1988 to 1989, the chief of the French military mission to the general staff of the "Allied Air Force Central Europe" (AAFCE). Page 31: Professor Andr Lebeau is former chairman of CNES - not "past president". Page 31: the cover of the military DRM report has no connection whatsoever with the COMETA report. In addition it is a military document, apparently reproduced without authorization. Incidentally, I discovered my picture, reproduced without my permission, next to this military document. I did not give this document, which know nothing about, and I find this way of doing things very incorrect. Other information given by COMETA concerns Mr Alain Boudier, who is mentioned as having given the documents and his permission for reproduction. Mr Boudier is not member of COMETA and had no right to do that. He has never been member of IHEDN either, and has not participated in the redaction of the report. UFO Magazine [UK] has invited Alain Boudier to speak at its conference in Leeds (18 september), where he will give "an insight" into the "French military UFO study", and will give "further exclusive revelations" (page 81). Mr Boudier will speak for himself, and by no means in the name of COMETA. Regards to all, Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 11 SystemView by Elanix Extends SETI From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:37:19 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:47:37 -0400 Subject: SystemView by Elanix Extends SETI Source: Business Wire. Stig *** SystemView by Elanix Extends Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Updated 8:05 AM ET September 9, 1999 WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif. (BUSINESS WIRE) - Elanix Inc. Thursday announced that it has donated several licenses of SystemView by Elanix(R) to help the SETI Institute develop a next-generation signal processing system to seek out evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence. The donated licenses have a value of approximately $163,000. SystemView by Elanix is a leading Windows design, simulation and analysis software for communications, digital signal processing (DSP), and RF/analog applications. SystemView enables software designers to determine the optimal design parameters and shortens development time by enabling thorough debugging and testing early in the software design cycle. The SETI Institute's Project Phoenix searches the microwave spectrum for pulsed and narrowband CW signals that might be evidence of extraterrestrial communication technology, focusing on the regions around individual stars similar to our Sun. The system looks for extremely weak signals in a radio environment rich with strong RFI, so system artifacts must be kept to an absolute minimum. SETI engineers are designing a new generation of receivers and signal detectors to replace the current Phoenix system, which was built nearly a decade ago. The new system, which has been in development since late last fall, will become operational in the fall of 2000. Dr. Kent Cullers, developer of the SETI signal processing algorithms, said three qualities of SystemView are of particular value to the SETI system designers: the ability to simulate both analog and digital subsystems; the ability within digital subsystems to do bit accurate simulations with full control of register size, and to easily examine frequency response and easily detect error conditions; and the ability to translate a digital design directly to a Xilinx FPGA. "SystemView was already our top contender for this work on our new SETI system, and the fact that Elanix has generously contributed these licenses for SystemView makes this a particularly positive situation for us," said Cullers, whose work with SETI was portrayed through the character Kent Clark in the popular movie "Contact." "The SETI Institute's design challenges are similar to those that many companies are facing as they attempt to design next-generation DSP and comm systems in less time," said Geoffrey Chatfield, vice president of marketing for Elanix. "SystemView is uniquely qualified to address these challenges with its unique combination of bit-true simulation tools, hardware/software development flow support, and broad applications support." Dr. Patrick J. Ready, president and chief executive officer of Elanix, said, "We are proud to support such an outstanding institution as the SETI Institute. The research conducted at the Institute is not only developing state-of-the-art signal processing techniques and hardware, but is also enriching our understanding of the universe." About the SETI Institute Founded in 1984, the SETI Institute is a private, nonprofit organization whose primary mission is to conduct research into the possibility of life beyond Earth, particularly intelligent life. The Institute currently conducts more than 30 research projects, the best known of which is Project Phoenix, the world's most powerful and technologically sensitive search for signs of extraterrestrial intelligence, and the type of SETI search featured in the 1997 Jodie Foster film "Contact." The SETI Institute is based in Mountain View, Calif. About Elanix Inc. Elanix develops SystemView by Elanix, a sophisticated software tool used by leading electronics manufacturers worldwide to design, simulate and test communications, DSP, signal processing and RF/analog systems. Featuring powerful system-level design, simulation and analysis in a user-friendly visual design environment, SystemView by Elanix provides design modeling and simulation performance that are orders of magnitude faster than conventional design tools. SystemView by Elanix reduces final product cost by enabling designers to determine the optimal design blocks and parameters and shortens time-to-market by enabling thorough debugging and testing early in the design cycle, when problems are easier to fix. Elanix is located at 5655 Lindero Canyon Rd., Suite 721, Westlake Village, Calif. 91362, about 30 miles northwest of Los Angeles. Telephone 818/597-1414; fax 818/597-1427; e-mail elanix@elanix.com; World Wide Web www.elanix.com. Note to Editors: SystemView by Elanix is a registered trademark of Elanix Inc. All other trademarks are the property of their respective companies. Contact: Elanix Inc., Westlake Village Geoffrey Chatfield, 818/597-1414 chatfield@elanix.com or SETI Institute, Mountain View Greg Klerkx, 650/960-4512 gklerkx@seti.org Copyright �
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:23:35 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:51:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:45:33 -0500 >Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:16:10 -0400 >Subject: Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite Dear Amy Hebert and List: <snip> >NORAD does track UFOs, that includes any unknown entering our >atmosphere - meteors, rocket boosters, etc., and NORAD tracks >them VERY closely. This is undoubtedly true, but >I and my children have seen this process in action. <snip> >Something came through our atmosphere and was probably >tracked by NORAD for that helicopter to have arrived so quickly >after the event occurred. The event described in no way demonstrates NORAD involvement. The chopper could have been a police aircraft sent to investigate. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Tampa Bay Mystery Lights 'Rocket's Red Glare' From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:45:35 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:53:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Tampa Bay Mystery Lights 'Rocket's Red Glare' >From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:49:22 EDT >Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:08:24 -0400 >Subject: Re: Tampa Bay Mystery Lights 'Rocket's Red Glare' >http://www.sptimes.com:80/News/90899/TampaBay/Mystery_lights_turn_o.shtml >But I don't buy this explanation <snip> >If this is true, why aren't our local civil defense authorities >concerned about warning people in populated areas on >falling booster tonnage? Dear Ignatio and List: If there was a cover-up of this magnitude, local civil defense authorities wouldn't be in on it, anyway. It's not possible to predict exactly where this stuff will come down, anyway. Usually its anywhere within thousands of miles along one or over several whole orbits. >And why are "Russian" boosters all of a sudden falling >across US territory?? They''ve been doing it since sputniks first went up. For decades, most stuff sent up was Soviet, at one time at a ratio of eight or ten to one, I think. Now it's coming down. >That last "booster" (item # 25761) which fell over >the Western part of the country wasn't even in NORADS >catalog! Or at least the version that our informant downloaded. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:58:47 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:58:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:29:18 +0200 (MET DST) >Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:59:51 -0400 >Subject: Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite <snip> >This helicopter reminds me of something that has always been >unclear to me. The USA has Air National Guards. Like the >Arizona Air National Guard that was active around the time >of the Phoenix UFO sighting two years ago. >I guess each state has an Air National Guard. Now my question >is what is their function? Obviously, the USA is not under >military threat from its neighbours, Canada and Mexico. And >to the west and the east lie vast oceans. So why have >military aircraft and helicopters in operation on the >USA mainland while they don't serve an obvious purpose? Dear Henny: Training. The State National Guards are part of the U.S. military reserves. For example, in the recent Serbian War many US aircraft were flown by National Guard pilots. Likewise during the Persion Gulf War there were thousands of US reserves present. The heaviest casualties were suffered by a Pennsylvania Army Natioal Guard support unit a couple hours drive from here, in a Scud missile attack. Here in the US they are also used in natural disasters for rescue, etc. For example, one of the most active US electronic warfare squadrons is part of the Pennsylvania Air National Guard; part of it operates from a civilian airport near my home. During the Cold War, this unit and others often flew in the arctic regions near the Soviet Union. Since the recent downsizing of US forces, more of the better quality aircraft are being sent to reserve forces. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 11 Alfred's Odd Ode #316 From: Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:04:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:12:28 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #316 Apology to MW #316 (For September 11, 1999) I spread my arms, beseech the sky, and wonder IF we even try to elevate our species' grace if much we touch is soon disgraced. And what of saucers flying there perhaps with *people* filled -- mon frere. Perhaps we're under observation, and taken for an infestation, we're waiting for some swift correction from some *god* beyond detection? We don't know's a good response! We are in false pride ensconced. We aren't careful of the void; we don't hear the fateful noise. Hearing what we want to hear, we're spendthrifts of what should be dear. Are we wasteful, loathsome beings with nothing but our gall and spleen to keep us from complete disaster -- groveling for some charming master? These *masters* will short-change your schooling, make it arduous and grueling. They would keep you tepid, friend, to reproduce what they contend is *best* for a society that lives to keep THEM warm and free! Keep art and music out of schools, and sing a new pathetic blues, as soulless drudges leave those halls to empty lives devoid -- appalled. Muzak soothing what to think, and then we smell its empty stink. Music is constructive feeling, the art is next -- and THEN we're dealing! Save a buck on art and music -- lose your soul, I think, abusing -- all that you might somehow be if you should KEEP your sanity. I'm in school, a teacher made to teach some damaged kids a trade -- standard English, some respect, a life beyond their sad neglect. They have nothing! I provide what little interest they connive. Their public school's a shell shocked hole, and shorted purpose, book or soul. We've no money we could spend to give them what this needs to mend? A few more teachers, good surroundings -- make the learning valued, charming. Make them WANT to come to school? Have them grasp this golden rule? Make their learning _real_ enough to TRULY give them better stuff? Pull them from their squalid holes, give them chances _yours_ would know and empty prisons you have made to counter disrespect now paid! I know there's more than what we see, a quantum relativity. A marriage of the macro space with what is subatomic -- graced. Tiny strings in humming loops that vibrate out our hand held truths in ways we can't perceive at all in space and time and MORE it calls. I contest our frame of deference. Aristotle lost our reference. We don't hold a center spot, to think we should is so much rot! We are _still_ conflicted by the crystal spheres that Greek would buy. Aristotle WAS quite wrong, but Christian churches played along. They would keep the lie alive, that we the chosen, favored, thrived! That they _should_ wear creation's crown, and _not_ be labeled as its clown. That they were _always_ God's proud chosen, *masters* of this Earth, enclosed in all their faith or dreams that they're not at the LAST obscene. Saucers flit and dance or flicker as our sordid games get sicker; we don't ask ourselves the questions that may cure our mad obsessions. People suffer every day so others can pretend they're prey while sitting in the tallest cotton with souls corrupted -- misbegotten! People starve, and rot or stink while others sip exotic drinks. People fret in misery. The faithful kiss their rosaries. Trained to put their faith in God, these folks presume they need his nod to ask, at last, for honest questions -- real answers . . . good detection. Some of us ARE good as gold! Some of us are hard and cold. Most are kept in shifting shadows, ignorant, misguided -- callow. These, the ones that do the work are kept in debt like foolish jerks so some can have their crystal fixtures, autumn homes, and famous pictures. This attitude at best, I figure, bleeds us like we're hung disfigured. Those on top would stay the same, and *write* their rules -- insure their game. They would stay their harmful course so unconcerned -- without remorse, blithely building grand estates that sprawl behind their iron gates. We are merely ants to them; we work and bleed as they condemn. Plus they keep the secrets, plainly -- clasp them to their breasts insanely. They won't give us what we need, as we are here to work and breed and make more hands for them to use, souls that they corrupt, abuse -- and still the questions raise their hands, beseech the heavens as they stand and wonder what is going on . . . as we're used up and preyed upon. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Restore John Ford -- Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more. Consider Matter, Mind & Movement. See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration. Take a ride in the Teleporter. Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL. http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ **Updated 11 September>** http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at: 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:31:08 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:21:06 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:50:14 EDT >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >>Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 00:40:30 EDT >>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> >>>Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:50:11 EDT >>>Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:25:27 -0400 >>>Subject: >To David Rudiak and the List: >Thank's a lot for your answer. Excuse my being slow to answer >but I was absent for a few days. >I just have a few points to add, the first one being that I >would like other members of this List to comment on this >discussion, which offers a clear explanation about what happened >and what was shown in General Ramey's office ! >>>I am well aware of the Sunday 6 flight in the evening, but I am >>>was talking about another flight which took place on Tuesday 8. >>>This flight clearly mentioned by General DuBose in a long >>>interview with Jaime Shandera, published in the MUFON UFO >>>Journal on January 1991. DuBose said that he was alone to meet >>>the plane, a B-29, and Marcel was not there. Let's quote the >>>exact text of two parts of the interview: >>Gildas, >>My apologies for misinterpreting what you wrote. I don't have a >>transcript of this interview, though I have seen brief excerpts >>of it, primarily from skeptics. My impression previously of >this interview had been that Dubose was compressing the earlier >>flight, which he sometimes described, and the Marcel flight into >>one event. Skeptics had done that as well to bolster their >>arguments that what was photographed was what Marcel had brought >>from Roswell, which to most people's eye at least is a balloon. >Yes, the skeptics abundantly used the interviews of Moore >and Shandera with General DuBose. Let's recall briefly the >discusion which took place in 1990-1991 (Would Kevin Randle >confirm it ?): >In 1990, Moore and Shandera were convinced that the debris shown >on the pictures of Bond Johnson were those of flying disk. They >based that idea on a first interview with General DuBose, >published in the Mufon Journal of September 1990 in which he >said that the debris had not been switched. They just assumed >that the real debris looked like ballon debris. Maybe the chronology would help here. I first spoke to Bond Johnson in early 1989. He told me about driving to Ramey's office, taking the photographs, and returning to the newspaper office. He put the photographs out over the wire and, according to him, wrote the story that accompanied those pictures. DuBose told us that he had seen material transitting FWAAF on Sunday but that this had nothing to do with the material photographed in Ramey's office. It should be clear to anyone who looks at the pictures that they should a balloon and radar reflector. After we had published a story about Johnson's activities, he spoke to Moore and Shandera, and then called Jerry Clark (or Moore called) complaining about all the inaccuracies in the article. I then called Johnson to find out exactly what his objections were and learned that he now said I had made all these mistakes. I attempted to tell him that the mistakes were the result of changes he was making in the story, but he believed I was wrong and that I had altered the tapes. To prove their point, Moore and Shandera wrote a couple of articles about the situation. >Then, there was a second interview of DuBose, this time by >Shandera alone, the one I quoted and which was published in the >MUFON Journal of January 1991. Again, he had DuBose confirm that >the debris had not been switched, so it seemed to close the >debate. This was a beautiful gift made to the skeptics : "you >see, they had found a balloon !" (later to become a balloon >train). The difference here is that Shandera didn't make notes and didn't record the conversation so that we only have his unsupported statements. On the other side the tapes of all the conversations, those with Johnson, and those with DuBose were made available by me for verification. In other words, I could prove what I said, but no one could prove what Shandera said about his interview. Enter Don Ecker and Billy Cox. Both talked to DuBose. Ecker called DuBose, got the tale of the debris being switched and then called Shandera. Shandera, now outraged, said wait a minute and hung up. He called back and said, "Now call him (DuBose)... and DuBose said there was no switch. Billy Cox probably explained it best when he suggested this is what happens when you try to force a narrow point of view on an elderly man. Shandera was able to impress his point of view on DuBose while he had the general on the telephone, but without Shandera's close questioning, DuBose was able to sort things out and provide a better picture... one that doesn't have real debris in Ramey's office to be snapped by Johnson. >But on careful reading, one can see that there was another >explanation : DuBose said that because he never saw the real >debris and did not know that they had been brought some time >before by Marcel, seen by Ramey, who opened one of the wrapped >boxes (that's understandable : pieces from a flying disk !) and >carried away. Probable destination : Wright field, as stated in >the FBI memo. >Clearly, there were two different flights. >In the MUFON Journal of April 1991, Kevin Randle and Donald >Schmitt published another interview with general DuBose which >put an end to the confusion created by Moore and Shandera. In >it, DuBose confirmed very clearly that he had not seen the real >debris. Which demonstrates how the politics of UFO research gets in the way of UFO research. >I fail to understand why, several years later, some people still >cling to the idea that he had brought and laid on the floor real >debris from the flying disk. To me it sounds like a bad remake >of the Moore-Shandera episode. Because it moves the story from the realm of I photographed a weather balloon to I photographed real pieces of an alien ship. >>However, you have a different take on what Dubose said which I >>(and I think others) haven't thought of before. >I would be very surprised if nobody had thought about this >explanation before. I would very much like to have the opinion >of Kevin Randle and Stanton Friedman on this! Or then, I must >suppose that the opinion of Shandera was so exasperaring that >the rest of the interview was discarded by all serious >researchers. >It's too bad because it was so revealing! >>This does differ in significant ways from the Marcel flight, >>where the debris samples Marcel took to Ramey's office were >>wrapped in brown paper, according to Robert Porter (and as >>suggested by the paper on the floor in the photos). As you >>mention below, it also differs from Dubose's statements about >>the earlier flight. >Yes, there should not be any confusion with the Sunday flight, >or the Tuesday flight with Marcel and other officers on board, >as described by Robert Porter (affidavit quoted in the USAF >Roswell Report!) and Marcel himself. >The only point on which I would disagree is your mention of the >brown paper on the floor, which has nothing to do, most >probably, with wrapped packages of the real debris. It's just >that they protected the floor with a roll of paper. Which is as good an explanation as any, but I have always been of the opinion that the brown paper had been part of the wrapping material. >>Alternatively, this cover story could have been in preparation >>as a contingency plan for an entire day (as suggested by Col. >>Ryan, Ramey's op officer, mentioning to the press the previous >>day that he thought radar targets were the explanation for the >>flying disks). When it became necessary to implement it because >of the press feeding frenzy that followed immediately after the >>press release, everything was already in place to carry it out. >>The base operations officer(Ryan) would have been a logical >>person to have arranged the whole thing and had the debris flown >>in. >Yes, all this seems very probable. Apparently, DuBose was not >informed of the whole story. Here is another quote from his >interview by Shandera (MUFON Journal, page 14): >Question: Wasn't it unusual to take material like this to the >chief's office? >Answer: Well, not unusual because this (the order to do so) had >come from Washington - somebody had said there that something >unusual had gone on out at Roswell in General's Ramey's >territory. General McMullen had bypassed us and told (Colonel) >Blanchard in Roswell to put this stuff on a plane and get it >over to Ft Worth for Ramey to get a look at it. Remembering, of course, that Shandera has neither notes nor a recording to back up his statements here. We must rely on his memory of what DuBose told him, which is at odds with the statements DuBose on both audio and video tape. >DuBose then repeats that he took the pouch to Ramey's office "so >we could take a look at it". Though DuBose also said that he never looked into the pouch. It was sealed and they didn't break the seal. They transferred it from one aircraft to the next. >>My hunch is that it wasn't coincidence that Ryan replaced >>Blanchard at Roswell the following year. As an important member >>of Ramey's staff (one of five colonels at FWAAF, Dubose and >>Clarke being two others), I suspect he was in on it. Washington >>may have wanted somebody already in-the-know on the matter to >>remain in command at Roswell to keep an eye on things. >>Admittedly this is just conjecture. Or, it could be that he was next in line for a command slot as a point of his career development and the events of 1947, now in the past, would be irrelevent to that assignment. >Conjecture, maybe, but very good conjecture to me! >Any other opinion on this List? >Gildas Bourdais KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 11 Hmm From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:10:53 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:26:08 -0400 Subject: Hmm Hey people This looks a rather interesting read http://www.cryptonym.com/hottopics/msft-nsa.html -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 12 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Richard Hall From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:26:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:26:26 -0400 Subject: 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Richard Hall Joining Co-Host Jonn Kares and I on 'Strange Days... Indeed' tonight will be: ----------------- /// Richard Hall ------------------ Richard Hall is a former Assistant Director and Acting Director of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP), and in that capacity was editor of the 200,000-word documentary report 'The UFO Evidence' and consultant to the University of Colorado UFO Project, sponsored by the Air Force Office of Scientific Research. He is a former editor of the MUFON Journal and past Chairman of UFO Research Coalition (UFORC). Richard's UFO-related publication credits include a 1968 Encyclopedia Britannica Book of the Year article; the introduction and epilogue in the 1968 Prentice-Hall book 'Mysteries of the Skies: UFOs in Perspective', he edited the book 'UFO Evidence' ; and several articles and a major appendix with byline in the 1980 Doubleday Encyclopedia of UFOs. His 1988 'Uninvited Guests: A Documented History Of UFO Sightings, Alien Encounters & Coverups' is a book that's sure to be found on the bookshelves of most people who are seriously interested in UFO phenomena. His column, 'Reality Check' in the US UFO magazine was, until recently, a 'must' read for many years. In the course of his career in and around Washington, D.C., Richard Hall has interacted with Members of Congress, Administration officials, employees of national intelligence agencies, the Washington press corps, international agencies such as the United Nations, and foreign diplomatic missions in the U.S. Thus, his views on the UFO subject are drawn from a broad background of knowledge and experience. ---------- /// 'Mikk' ----------- There have been many mysteries centered on Lake Ontario. The late Hugh F. Cochrane catalogued many of them in his 'Gateway To Oblivion - The Great Lakes Bermuday Triangle'. 'Mikk', a new-comer to UFO research has been looking into some of those mysteries as a result of an oddity that he experienced recently. He's not anxious to reveal his identity, publicly, for the moment and we'll respect his wishes. Suffice to say that we do have his phone number. Join Richard, 'Mikk', Jonn and I this Sunday evening as we discuss these Strange Days... Indeed on CFRB 1010 AM - 50,000 watts 'Clear-Channel' 6070khz Shortwave you can also listen via Media Player at: www.cfrb.com/ You'll need to access the site using Internet Explorer since Media Player seems to choke using any version of Netscape - thanks Mr. Bill! To call the program dial: On-Air 416-872-1010 1-800-561-CFRB [all over North America] *TALK [local mobiles] Errol Bruce-Knapp \_______________________________________________/ UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net A UFO & Related Phenomena E-Mail List operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - 416-696-0304 UFO UpDates Archives are available at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates 'Strange Days...Indeed' - available live via MediaPlayer 9:00 Eastern, Sunday nights at: http://cfrb.com/default.htm The MUFON Ontario Pages are at: http://globalserve.net/~updates/mufon/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 12 Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:13:55 -0400 Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos Bruce Maccabee, you continue to be an embarrassment to the field of ufology. You very well know that William G.Hyzer has proven that Photograph #19 was a double exposure. Yours and MUFON's contentions that there was a dent in the hood, that the top of the hood was muddy, that there were bricks in the back of the truck, luminosity coming down the road� all these contentions are just that: contentions. William G. Hyzer, with all of his sophisticated equipment, has proven that there was no luminosity coming down the road, contradicting Jeff Sainio's contention with 12-years of experience in the field of photographic analysis. You continue to use a smear tactic on Photograph's 1 through 5. The only thing, Bruce Maccabee, that has been smeared in the last 10 to 15 years has been your reputation. Your dubious analysis of the New Zealand video, your ridiculous analysis of the Guardian video [to which later, one of MUFON's top investigators in Canada, Tom Theofanous, had proven to be a hoax], and lastly, your ridiculous investigation of the Gulf Breeze case. As I stated before, these crossover's in ufology are ridiculous. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who accepts $20,000.00 in an ongoing investigation should disqualify himself from further involvement with the case. Realizing, of course, that Walt Andrus would never have the professionalism to dismiss you, you should have been disqualified from any further investigation of this case upon acceptance of this sum of money. Also, your good friend [who is no longer in the field], Bob Oeschler, accepted $5,000.00 early-on in the investigation for some work he did on the Ed Walters' photographs, which obviously had nothing to do with evaluating the Gulf Breeze case. So it turns out that Ed Walters, in the end, had two people indebted to him: Bruce Maccabee and Bob Oeschler. So I would say that with your three strikes, Bruce Maccabee, that you should be out: New Zealand, Guardian and Gulf Breeze. Jerome Clark can continue to say that he has all the respect in the world for your intelligence, your knowledge and your ability. But if he's talking about this in relation to ufology, he does not know what he is talking about. This is why I am going to add Jerome Clark's name to the list of "The Old Boy's Club." This is a clique where nothing derogatory is said about another member, no matter how badly their cases are investigated or what ridiculous statements they make. They simply do not speak ill of one another, and these are: Stanton Friedman, Budd Hopkins, Bruce Maccabee, Walt Andrus, and now Jerome Clark. As I said, this is the first time you were subject to a test to determine if your photo-analysis work would stand against the work of another who is not in the field of ufology. As far as I am concerned, you miserably failed that test. On top of that, you accepted $20,000.00 for writing a chapter in a book before the case was even finalized. Further, you had the audacity to insult the intelligence of the UFO community by co-authoring a book called "UFOs Are Real, Here's the Proof." I notice that in dubious cases like Ed Walters and Whitley Strieber, there is one common denominator: other people's stories and photographs are used in attempt to validate the claim in question. Mr. Strieber has done the same thing. In fact, his last book "Confirmation," was exactly done for that purpose. I will state for any and all UFOlogist out there: you cannot use the photograph or story of another person to validate a separate story or claim. Certainly, it may be interesting if someone has a photograph that looks similar to the those taken by Ed Walters, or a story similar to that given by Whitley Strieber. But in the end, the primary claim is to be evaluated on its own merits, disregarding any other photographs taken, and disregarding other stories, similar or otherwise, to the claims in question. And yet, in these dubious cases, claimants always try to point to other cases or photographs to vindicate their own. You will notice in the Travis Walton case, Walton never once tried to use another persons abduction claim to support his own. In the 1976 Casey County, Kentucky abduction incident, the three women involved did not rely upon the claim of another person in an attempt to bolster their own experience. Both of these cases, as far as I'm concerned, stand as highly regarded cases. It is a shame that you, Bruce Maccabee, had to co-author your first book with Ed Walters, who is responsible for one of the most elaborate UFO hoaxes of the 90's. You have embarrassed yourself, and have embarrassed the UFO community. In a separate letter I will be addressing to Jerome Clark where he [and also Bill Jones of Ohio MUFON] want to know why I am so upset with some of the leaders in ufology; these are the exact reasons why. Finally, in your comments about Art Hufford you said that he still may have seen the same thing Ed Walters photographed - you are missing the point. He couldn't have seen the same thing unless the Ed Walter's UFO had portable windows. Given your readiness to accept the claim of Ed Walters, I am assuming that you believe this to be a possibility too. Regardless, there is no way that Art Hufford saw the same object seen in Ed's pictures. First of all, Ed's were models, and secondly, even if you believe in Ed Walters, there were no windows in the UFO seen by Art Hufford. And to this day, an article just recently listed in the Pensacola Journal, he states the same ridiculous statement again: "I saw the same thing in the Ed Walters photograph." The case of the wanna-believers in Gulf Breeze goes on and on and on. But most importantly, Bruce Maccabee, you stated in your letter that there were two other people, a man and a woman, plus a genteman named Truman Holcombe , who had a good view of an object that they perceived to be the same object in the Gulf Breeze photograph. But as I stated earlier, the only issue I had with Art Hufford is that he was an investigator on the case. It would have made no difference if Hufford did see windows on the object, because each case is handled individually - on its own. Just because Art Hufford may have seen an object with windows in it or had perceived it to be the same shape and size of the Ed Walters object, this does not mean Ed Walters photographs are genuine. The same goes for the other three people; just because they felt as if they had seen something similar to the Gulf Breeze photographs does not vindicate Ed Walters. The conclusions to be drawn from the Gulf Breeze case are based on the evidence presented by Ed Walters only. Each case stands on its own merits. That is why you have tried so hard in your book, "UFOs Are Real, Here's The Proof," to use other photographs from other cases to vindicate Ed Walters. Please recall that in 1970, Bill Spaulding investigated a photograph given to him which showed an alleged UFO hovering over a house. A copy of this picture was put in a midwestern newspaper along with the story of a young man who took the picture. Some weeks later, Spaulding analyzed the photograph and found a string holding up the object. The young man denied it, and his parents were very upset. After a second analysis, he reaffirmed that there was definitely a string holding up a model. Afterward, the young man, age-15, then confessed that it was a model and he had done this for a joke. During the three or four week period of time that this story had developed, six to seven people in that town had reported seeing exactly the same object that the boy had photographed. Well since the photograph the young boy took was a model, these people obviously could not have seen the same object as photographed. The question is, what did they see? Was it power of suggestion? Was it the idea that they wanted to believe so badly that what the boy saw was real that every object they saw looked like it? I am not a psychologist and don't know the answer to that, but that is one of the reasons why, regardless of what anyone else reports that looks similar or exactly like pictures taken by a separate subject, that does not confirm or make pictures taken by the subject real. Again, a UFO case is based upon the evidence presented by the person being investigated, and not by other pictures of objects or reports of other objects, unless of course, the object is sighted under simultaneous conditions. Interestingly, in all the pictures that Ed Walters took at his home, not one neighbor ever reported seeing any objects that Ed Walters photographed. Not one. There again, that does not mean that Ed Walters photographs are not real, but it is interesting to note that not one neighbor saw any object that Ed Walters photographed. Sincerely, Jerry Black 6276 Taylor Pike Blanchester, Ohio 45107 (513)625-2613 blackhole60@hotmail.com Website: http://members.xoom.com/blackshole/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 13 College Offers Internet UFO Class From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:47:28 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:08:29 -0400 Subject: College Offers Internet UFO Class Source: "alt.alien.visitors". Stig *** From: Tom Bell <tombell@jal.cc.il.us> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: College offers Internet UFO class Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:31:31 -0500 The following is information about one of the all-internet classes that John A. Logan College in Carterville, Illinois is offering in the fall. "UFOs: An Alien Connection?" will examine the history of the UFO phenomenon and speculate on the possibility of alien life. It's a continuing education course, taught totally on the Internet. The class utilizes threaded discussion boards, web pages, graphics, audio, video, live chat, etc. We expect to have students from all over the United States and in several countries from around the world. The cost for the 7 week class is only $15.00. The class starts Monday, September 13. Registration continues through September 17. Information is available at http://instruction.jal.cc.il.us/ps999/ There will be students with all different levels of knowledge about UFOs, so whether you are just interested or have a great deal of knowledge, or maybe you've had a sighting or experience, you can be a valuable addition to the class. Lots of different viewpoints and ideas will be expressed. Because the class is continuing education, there are no grades or required papers; it's really meant to be a rewarding experience, lots of fun, and a great way to communicate with others who have an interest in the same subject. We'll discuss the probability of alien life, Roswell, Area 51, alleged government conspiracies, international sightings, cover-ups, close encounters, alien abductions and lots of other subjects. This is the first time we have offered this class. However, for the past year, we have been offering classes on the Internet about the History of Rock and Roll, and the Beatles with a great deal of success and participation by students on several continents. We expect to have the same success with this class.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 13 Recent Sightings In Northern Ontario From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:51:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:18:26 -0400 Subject: Recent Sightings In Northern Ontario These are the latest reports I have received by e-mail and telephone from around Northern Ontario, Canad Friday, August 13, 1999 (reported on August 23, 1999) At about 3:20 a.m., a Whitefish resident who was letting his dog out, happened to look west at a cluster of stars and all of a sudden, one of them turned very bright and large and moved "about a couple of hundred feet" to the south, and got dim again. He went into the house to look for his binoculars and when he got back out, he couldn't find it again...it was lost in the stars. He said that it struck him odd that something like that would move. He stayed out for two hours because there was a lot of shooting stars, that night. When asked if this was his first sighting, he said no. Ten years before, he was letting his dog out one night and as he looked east toward Sudbury, he saw what he thought was a falling star as it came down real fast. But just as fast as it came down, it went back up again! Wednesday, August 18, 1999 (reported to me on August 23, 1999) A Garson resident reported that at about 11:43 a.m., he and four other witnesses saw a "little cigar thing" as it crossed the sky and headed towards the Inco Superstack. He said he was facing north when he spotted a very bright, white object as it came in from the east and moved very slowly towards the west. The day was clear and cloudless, with winds blowing from the northwest. He watched it for about 12 minutes until it disappeared in the smoke plume of the INCO Superstack. He then turned around to talk to his two buddies and a couple of neighbours who were there with him and discussed what they had just seen. About 3 minutes later, they noticed another similar object in the eastern sky and watched as it followed the same path, moving very slowly across the sky towards the west. They watched this one for about ten to twelve minutes until it, too, disappeared. The main witness estimated that both UFOs were at an altitude of about 2,000 feet. He added that they (the cigar-shaped objects) were moving way too slow for an airplane and moving too fast to be balloons. Saturday, August 21, 1999 (reported on September 4, 1999) At around 2 a.m., a Lively man witnessed 3 lights in a perfect triangle travelling in a straight line through the haze of the milky way, from the southwest to the northeast. "The lights did not flash like those of an aircraft," he said. "They seemed similar in speed, height and linear travel to satellites, which he has seen dozens of times, but never in formation or near other satellites." Wednesday, September 8, 1999 (reported on September 10, 1999) At about 12:30 a.m., a night crew supervisor and a delivery truck driver saw an unusually bright ball of light above the Wal-Mart store in New Sudbury. It was very low and was accompanied by the sound of rushing wind at it flew by. Michel M. Deschamps MUFON Provincial Section Director for Sudbury, Ontario, Canada & UFO Researcher/Historian.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:43:31 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:54:32 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:31:08 EDT >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> >>Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:50:14 EDT >>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >>>Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 00:40:30 EDT >>>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>>To: updates@globalserve.net <snip> >>In 1990, Moore and Shandera were convinced that the debris shown >>on the pictures of Bond Johnson were those of flying disk. They >>based that idea on a first interview with General DuBose, >>published in the MUFON Journal of September 1990 in which he >>said that the debris had not been switched. They just assumed >>that the real debris looked like balloon debris. >Maybe the chronology would help here. I first spoke to Bond >Johnson in early 1989. He told me about driving to Ramey's >office, taking the photographs, and returning to the newspaper >office. He put the photographs out over the wire and, according >to him, wrote the story that accompanied those pictures. KRandle obviously is trying to explain his flawed interviewing techniques by continuing to falsify and distort the facts regarding the Roswell Event of 1947 to account for his errors. As much as I would liked to have been the reporter to first announce General Ramey's "weather balloon-device" explanation to a waiting world about the earlier Air Force officially announced "capture" of a flying saucer", this simply did not happen. Even though such a "scoop" would have been a career enhancing feather in my reportorial cap, I never did and never would have made any such false claim though Randle's cleverly edited, surreptitiously obtained telephone tape seems to indicate such. My personal experiences with Randle may help to explain General Dubose's confusion with writer's interviewing him more than 40 years after the Roswell Event. When Randle phoned me in 1989 he asked me detailed questions about the Ramey office photographs, which though I had photographed them I had not seen them for more than 40 years. At that time I could not recall exactly how many photos I had taken. When later I had an opportunity to refresh my memory by seeking out and taking a look at these old photos I quickly corrected my statements in the interest of accuracy. Randle then accused me of "changing" my story when all that I had done was to correct my foggy memory. >DuBose told us that he had seen material transiting FWAAF on >Sunday but that this had nothing to do with the material >photographed in Ramey's office. It should be clear to anyone who >looks at the pictures that they should a balloon and radar >reflector. This error by Randle, among many others, which now has been thoroughly exposed by the intensive and expert work of RPIT (Roswell Photo Interpretation Team) obviously is causing Randle some considerable embarrassment. >>After we had published a story about Johnson's activities, he >spoke to Moore and Shandera, and then called Jerry Clark I never have had any contact with a Jerry Clark whatsoever. Randle's creative writing only further confuses the Roswell story. >(or Moore called) complaining about all the inaccuracies in the >article. I then called Johnson to find out exactly what his >objections were and learned that he now said I had made all >these mistakes. I attempted to tell him that the mistakes were >the result of changes he was making in the story, but he >believed I was wrong and that I had altered the tapes. A comparison of the tapes as edited by Randle with purported transcripts of the interviews as published in articles by Randle clearly show that significant alterations have been made. Randle now has admitted that he did indeed edit his tapes of the interviews. It is unfortunate that General Dubose is no longer around to also correct any misquotations of his apparently conflicting statements.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Tampa Bay Mystery Lights 'Rocket's Red Glare' From: Bill Stockstill <b_stockstill@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:46:27 GMT Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:38:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Tampa Bay Mystery Lights 'Rocket's Red Glare' Having missed the Gordon Cooper interview on Art Bell this past Thursday night (9/9), I listened to it via Real Audio yesterday. I must say that the reports that Peter Davenport was getting from Tampa of an object altering direction and in view long enough for someone to allegedly video tape does not sound like an object traveling at 17,000 mph without any sort of intelligent guidance. Moreover, unsubstantiated reports on the show by a clergyman of F-16s being scrambled from McDill AFB and some coming back damaged create even more of a mystery. I invite the list to listen and comment. The Tampa UFO is discussed during the first hour at: http://ww2.broadcast.com/artbell/sept99.stm Bill Stockstill The UFO Enigma on Destination: Space Premiering this Fall www.destinationspace.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:16:02 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:40:59 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:43:31 EDT >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:31:08 EDT >>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> >>>Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:50:14 EDT >>>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >>>>Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 00:40:30 EDT >>>>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>>>To: updates@globalserve.net <snip> >>>In 1990, Moore and Shandera were convinced that the debris shown >>>on the pictures of Bond Johnson were those of flying disk. They >>>based that idea on a first interview with General DuBose, >>>published in the MUFON Journal of September 1990 in which he >>>said that the debris had not been switched. They just assumed >>>that the real debris looked like balloon debris. >>Maybe the chronology would help here. I first spoke to Bond >>Johnson in early 1989. He told me about driving to Ramey's >>office, taking the photographs, and returning to the newspaper >>office. He put the photographs out over the wire and, according >>to him, wrote the story that accompanied those pictures. >KRandle obviously is trying to explain his flawed interviewing >techniques by continuing to falsify and distort the facts >regarding the Roswell Event of 1947 to account for his errors. >As much as I would liked to have been the reporter to first >announce General Ramey's "weather balloon-device" explanation to >a waiting world about the earlier Air Force officially announced >"capture" of a flying saucer", this simply did not happen. Even >though such a "scoop" would have been a career enhancing feather >in my reportorial cap, I never did and never would have made any >such false claim though Randle's cleverly edited, >surreptitiously obtained telephone tape seems to indicate such. My first reaction is to ignore these comments because all the relevant points have already been discussed. However, I will note the following. I did not surreptitiously record the telephone conversation. I asked permission. In fact, on one of the tapes, you hear me ask permission and Dr. Johnson agreeing to it. As for the rest of his comments.... I have to laugh. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 13 TUVPO 'Black' List From: Erol Erkmen <andromeda1@turk.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:45:24 +0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:57:06 -0400 Subject: TUVPO 'Black' List TUVPO 'Black' List You may find many expressions in web pages such as Fake, Hoax etc. We decided to bring a different approach when preparing this section. That's why we put them all under our Black List section. The people who prepare these fake UFO photographs and the other topics have not been placed here to be judged by us. The UFO expression is generally misused. According to TUVPO, the Black List consists of all formations that show themselves as "space vehicles that come from other planets". Among these there are also natural phenomena. We beleive that these phenomenons are not very well known and that's why they are treated as space vehicles. And that is also why they are included in our black list. In this section we aim to introduce to you some unknown phenomenons with their scientific aspects. The others on our list are people who make up false stories, photographs, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and benefit from the weakness other people have about these topics. We will explain these to you as well as soon as we obtain definite proof. TUVPO believes that we are not alone in the universe, but the contents of The Black List are not our proof. http://members.tripod.com/~ufolojist/krlst.html TUVPO http://tuvpoorg.cjb.net/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:07:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:18:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos > >From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT Embarrassment!!!!(Face Red) >Bruce Maccabee, you continue to be an embarrassment to the f>ield of ufology. Aw, gee, Jerry, you're such a nice guy. I hate to waste te on gabage like this, but..... >You very well know that William G.Hyzer has >proven that Photograph #19 was a double exposure. Yours and >MUFON's contentions that there was a dent in the hood, that the >top of the hood was muddy, that there were bricks in the back of t>he truck, luminosity coming down the road all these >contentions are just that: contentions. They also happen to be facts. >William G. Hyzer, with all of his sophisticated equipment, has >proven that there was no luminosity coming down the road, >contradicting Jeff Sainio's contention with 12-years of >experience in the field of photographic analysis. Wrong. >You continue to use a smear tactic on Photograph's 1 through 5. Smear tactic? >The only thing, Bruce Maccabee, that has been smeared in the >last 10 to 15 years has been your reputation. What a stupid statement. The only things smeared were the images in Ed's first 5 photos. Interestingly enough, the smears of the nearby streetlight and the UFO lights were the same. Kind of hard to imagine that occurring if the photos were all double exposures. >Your dubious analysis of the New Zealand video I bet you know next to nothing about th New Zealand MOVIE (not video) of December 1978. This is the only UFO case to merit publication in the journal Applied Optics. I have recently written an article on radar, based largely on the New Zealand sightings, which is to appear in a coming issue of the Journal of Scientific Exploration. The article directly challenges the criticisms of the skeptics who wrote the "final report" on the so-call Sturrock Panel last year. So far as I can tell this is the only article written in response to the conclusions of that panel. >, your ridiculous analysis of >the Guardian video [to which later, one of MUFON's top i>nvestigators in Canada, Tom Theofanous, had proven to be a >hoax] This is clearly a contentious case. However, I have responded to Theophanous' claims. When Labenek recants, then I'll accept it as a hoax. >, and lastly, your ridiculous investigation of the Gulf >Breeze case. As I stated before, these crossover's in ufology >are ridiculous. crossovers? The skeptics of all the aspects of Gulf Breeze have not yet shot it down... despite wishful thinking. >As far as I'm concerned, anyone who accepts $20,000.00 in an >ongoing investigation should disqualify himself from further >involvement with the case. For writing a chapter in a book months after the conclusions of my investigation had been published.... at no charge to anyone (except for the Fund for UFO Research that payed the air fare for my first trip to Gulf Breeze).... See "A History of the Gulf Breeze Sigthings, available from th Fund for UFO Research. (Of course, we've been through all this a dozen(?) times over the last 7 years or so) SNIP >So I would say that with your three strikes, Bruce Maccabee, t>hat you should be out: New Zealand, Guardian and Gulf Breeze. Tough lick, Jerry.... I'm still in the game and you are the one who is now challenged: we have already discussed Gulf Breeze. Now let's discuss New Zealand. You'd better be prepared to defend your criticism of m analysis of the NZ case.... (assuming you even know what my analysis is). SNIP gossip >As I said, this is the first time you were subject to a test to >determine if your photo-analysis work would stand against the >work of another who is not in the field of ufology. As far as I >am concerned, you miserably failed that test. Your uneducated opinion. SNIP > Further, you had the audacity to >insult the intelligence of the UFO community by co-authoring a >book called "UFOs Are Real, Here's the Proof." And you have the audacity to insult me over something you barely understand.... if at all. SNIP > I will state for any and all UFOlogist out there: you >cannot use the photograph or story of another person to validate >a separate story or claim. Certainly, it may be interesting if >someone has a photograph that looks similar to the those taken >by Ed Walters, or a story similar to that given by Whitley >Strieber. But in the end, the primary claim is to be evaluated >on its own merits, disregarding any other photographs taken, and >disregarding other stories, similar or otherwise, to the claims >in question. And yet, in these dubious cases, claimants always t>ry to point to other cases or photographs to vindicate their >own. You will notice in the Travis Walton case, Walton never >once tried to use another persons abduction claim to support his >own. In the 1976 Casey County, Kentucky abduction incident, the t>hree women involved did not rely upon the claim of another >person in an attempt to bolster their own experience. Both of >these cases, as far as I'm concerned, stand as highly regarded >cases. I certainly agree that each case should stand on its own. That's why sightings mentioned below are themselves important. >It is a shame that you, Bruce Maccabee, had to >co-author your first book with Ed Walters, who is >responsible for one of the most elaborate UFO >hoaxes of the 90's. You have embarrassed yourself, >and have embarrassed the UFO community. Yeah, yeah, yeah,,,,,, we'll let the UFO community decide >Finally, in your comments about Art Hufford you said that he >still may have seen the same thing Ed Walters photographed - you >are missing the point. He couldn't have seen the same thing >unless the Ed Walter's UFO had portable windows. You seem to forget Ed's claim, made early on, that the "windows" or whatever they were, didn't seem fixed but seemed to move around on the object. >Given your >readiness to accept the claim of Ed Walters, I am assuming that you believe this to be a possibility too. Regardless, there is >no way that Art Hufford saw the same object seen in Ed's >pictures. > First of all, Ed's were models, Oh yeah? Prove it > and secondly, even if >you believe in Ed Walters, there were no windows in the UFO seen >by Art Hufford. And to this day, an article just recently listed i>n the Pensacola Journal, he states the same ridiculous >statement again: "I saw the same thing in the Ed Walters >photograph." The case of the wanna-believers in Gulf Breeze goes >on and on and on. What gives you the knowlege that "windows" are always visible? And wouldn't Ed have been lucky to construct a model that looked so muc like what Art and Mary saw, even though he knew nothing of their sighting at the time (they didn't reveal their sighting until months later.) a truly amazing coincidence... if a fake. >But most importantly, Bruce Maccabee, you stated in your letter >that there were two other people, a man and a woman, plus a g>enteman named Truman Holcombe , who had a good view of an >object that they perceived to be the same object in the Gulf >Breeze photograph. But as I stated earlier, the only issue I had >with Art Hufford is that he was an investigator on the case. It >would have made no difference if Hufford did see windows on the >object, because each case is handled individually - on its own. >Just because Art Hufford may have seen an object with windows in >it or had perceived it to be the same shape and size of the Ed >Walters object, this does not mean Ed Walters photographs are >genuine. The same goes for the other three people; just because t>hey felt as if they had seen something similar to the Gulf >Breeze photographs does not vindicate Ed Walters. The >conclusions to be drawn from the Gulf Breeze case are based on >the evidence presented by Ed Walters only. Each case stands on >its own merits. This shows how muddled your thinking is and how your obsession with the idea that Ed hoaxed everything prevents you from logical reasoning. The "man and a woman" mentioned above were not Art and Mary Hufford. They were Fenner and Shirley McConnell. Fenner was (is) a doctor and the local coronor, if I recall correctly. At any rate, they reported seeing "Ed's craft", WITH WINDOWS, hovering for several minutes not far from the shore near their house on July 8, 1988. First Fenner saw it early in the morning (as he prepared for a morning run) and he called Shirley. Their sighting is a matter of record. Truman Holcombe no only saw the object, he also saw it emit a blue beam. Then there was the sighting by Mr. Pollack and two others of an Ed type object that appeared near the pier at Shoreline Park in late May, 1988 I think you will agree that the UFO seen by these people was not a "classic" saucer. It therefore must be considered an amazing coincidence if Ed managed to fake a type of saucer that was not a classic shape but nevertheless agreed with what other people were reporting,and to fake it before there any of these people made their reports . >That is why you have tried so hard in your book, "UFOs Are Real, >Here's The Proof," to use other photographs from other cases to >vindicate Ed Walters. Please recall that in 1970, Bill Spaulding >investigated a photograph given to him which showed an alleged >UFO hovering over a house. A copy of this picture was put in a >midwestern newspaper along with the story of a young man who t>ook the picture. Some weeks later, Spaulding analyzed the >photograph and found a string holding up the object. The young >man denied it, and his parents were very upset. After a second >analysis, he reaffirmed that there was definitely a string >holding up a model. Afterward, the young man, age-15, then >confessed that it was a model and he had done this for a joke. >During the three or four week period of time that this story had >developed, six to seven people in that town had reported seeing >exactly the same object that the boy had photographed. Well >>people obviously could not have seen the same object as p>hotographed. The question is, what did they see? Was it power o>f suggestion? Was it the idea that they wanted to believe so b>adly that what the boy saw was real that every object they saw >looked like it? Or did he fake a typical or "classic" saucer which might be seen by people (make his fake match that which wasalready known? I don't know the answer to this since I don't know to what case you refer. SNIP Interestingly, in all the pictures that Ed Walters took at his home, not one neighbor ever reported seeing any objects that Ed Walters photographed. Not one. There again, that does not mean that Ed Walters photographs are not real, but it is interesting to note that not one neighbor saw any object that Ed Walters photographed. < Actually the people living across the street did report such a thing... sighting in early April, 1988. Their sighting, upon investigation, turned out to be an abduction event. Mr. Black seems to hang his hat on Photo 19 being proven a hoax by Hyzer.... and neglects the contradictory analysis by me and Jeff Sainio. However, there are other photos to look at. Hyzer's explanation for Ed's photo 1 was a very special type of double exposure which Hyzer "invented". There is no way Ed Walters could have known about it. Furthermore, his explanation was found to fail for rather complicated reasons published by Jeff Sainio. Black has ignored the photometric analysis in photo 11 which proves it couldn't be a siple double exposure of the type proposed as the] explanation for all of Ed's photos. (Hyzer didn't discuss any photo metric analysis of the blue beam.) And Black ignores the correspondence of image smears on theUFO image and background images.... difficult to do with a handheld camera and double exposure. And Black ignores the stereo photos.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: TUVPO 'Black' List From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:58:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:42:18 -0400 Subject: Re: TUVPO 'Black' List >From: Erol Erkmen <andromeda1@turk.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: TUVPO 'Black' List >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:45:24 +0300 >TUVPO 'Black' List >You may find many expressions in web pages such as Fake, Hoax >etc. We decided to bring a different approach when preparing >this section. That's why we put them all under our Black List >section. The people who prepare these fake UFO photographs and >the other topics have not been placed here to be judged by us. <snip> >The others on our list are people who make up false stories, >photographs, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and >benefit from the weakness other people have about these topics. >We will explain these to you as well as soon as we obtain >definite proof. Checked out the site, as I suspectd a lot of others did immediately too, and was somewhat disappointed that most pages are not in english and the language is Greek to me! The Roswell autopsy page was fascinating, as it contained pictures of a crashed saucer with two occupants lying outside the craft which was wedged into the dirt, one obviously dead a distance out form the craft and one sitting apparently still alive beside the craft. Although the impplication from the main page and the post, indicate this site has examples of what they believe arae not genuine UFO events, being unable to read the text, and seeing photos I have never even heard of as existing, the conclusion that I wondered if the page wasn't trying to suggest with the autopsy video and all, is that in fact the crash was not only real, but here are photos of it, and the dead alien on the ground and here he is again in the still questionable atuopsy film! While I don't doubt the fact that something crashed back way back when, near Roswell, have certainly come across enough evidence including one individual, now dead who had direct contact and knowlege of the event but who was sworn to secrecy, of course, and only admitted it on his death bed. Although there is debate aboaut the events that followed, most of the discussion seems to be about time lines of events that followed and discrepancies therein, etc. But like everyone, trying to find out exactly what did happen in the first place, I am always intersted in anything anyone finds that might reveal something about the crash itself. And to see two pictures which could conceivably be of the crash site, if not Roswell than anohter crash site, is a real find! If anyone can actually read the foreign language there, could you enlighten the rest of us English-only people, about what the point of this page is? Is it debunking the photos and autopsy and Roswell or providing photographic proof of it? Lesley
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 14 UK Government Documents Online From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:00:50 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:47:53 -0400 Subject: UK Government Documents Online Source: "uk.rec.ufo" September 4th. Stig *** From: Eric Adams <eric@shark5.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: uk.rec.ufo Subject: UK Government documents on-line! Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:30:20 +0100 I've just received a message from a non-UFO mailing list, telling me that the Public Record Office is about to put its _entire_ catalogue of documents on-line! The address is: http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/ListInt/Default.asp - Eric ------- "This unusual sighting should therefore be assigned to the category of some almost certainly natural phenomena which is so rare that it apparently has never been reported before or since." - The Condon Report.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:07:41 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:50:24 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:16:02 EDT >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >>Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:43:31 EDT >>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:31:08 EDT >>>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>>To: updates@globalserve.net ><snip> >>>>In 1990, Moore and Shandera were convinced that the debris shown >>>>on the pictures of Bond Johnson were those of flying disk. They >>>>based that idea on a first interview with General DuBose, >>>>published in the MUFON Journal of September 1990 in which he >>>>said that the debris had not been switched. They just assumed >>>>that the real debris looked like balloon debris. >>>Maybe the chronology would help here. I first spoke to Bond >>>Johnson in early 1989. He told me about driving to Ramey's >>>office, taking the photographs, and returning to the newspaper >>>office. He put the photographs out over the wire and, according >>>to him, wrote the story that accompanied those pictures. >>KRandle obviously is trying to explain his flawed interviewing >>techniques by continuing to falsify and distort the facts >>regarding the Roswell Event of 1947 to account for his errors. >>As much as I would liked to have been the reporter to first >>announce General Ramey's "weather balloon-device" explanation to >>a waiting world about the earlier Air Force officially announced >>"capture" of a flying saucer", this simply did not happen. Even >>though such a "scoop" would have been a career enhancing feather >>in my reportorial cap, I never did and never would have made any >>such false claim though Randle's cleverly edited, >>surreptitiously obtained telephone tape seems to indicate such. >My first reaction is to ignore these comments because all the >relevant points have already been discussed. However, I will >note the following. I did not surreptitiously record the >telephone conversation. I asked permission. In fact, on one of >the tapes, you hear me ask permission and Dr. Johnson agreeing >to it. Please Kevin, _try_ to be honest! The _first_ time you asked permission to tape our conversations -- or indicated that you were intending to use the information I had provided in some way -- was during a subsequent conversation at a much later date. During the initial conversation at issue you made _no_ mention that you were taping our conversation or that this was anything other than an attempt to locate some information for an unstated purpose. You didn't even identify yourself as a novelist! >As for the rest of his comments.... I have to laugh. What else _can_ you do? Your reputation as an interviewer already has been thoroughly trashed by others regarding your pomposity and inclination to twist facts and put words into the mouths of your interviewees apparently to justify your far out, unfounded theories. J. Bond Johnson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:21:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:51:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:23:35 EDT >Subject: Re: Tracking UFOs by Satellite >To: updates@globalserve.net >>Something came through our atmosphere and was probably >>tracked by NORAD for that helicopter to have arrived so quickly >>after the event occurred. >The event described in no way demonstrates NORAD involvement. >The chopper could have been a police aircraft sent to >investigate. Dear Bob, The helicopter was looking for something on the ground with two beams of light in the middle of a cow pasture. I called the local authorities (as indicated in my original post) _and_ news stations - no one knew anything about the incident. One police department refered me to another then another covering all the counties surrounding the area where this occurred. If they had dispatched the helicopter, why would they not tell me it was being investigated? What reason would they have to lie? Why send a helicopter to investigate instead of a police car? It is accessable by two country roads (went there myself). However, even a police car or helicopter could not have gotten there that fast. Heck, just getting to a phone and calling to report the incident would have taken longer than it took for that helicopter to arrive. If it was a police helicopter responding so fast, then someone is keeping a _very_ close eye on these little rural towns and cow pastures. Gotta keep a close eye on them moo-cows. ;> Amy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: UK Government Documents Online From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:45:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:02:04 -0400 Subject: Re: UK Government Documents Online >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:00:50 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >Subject: UK Government Documents Online >Source: "uk.rec.ufo" September 4th. >Stig >*** >From: Eric Adams <eric@shark5.demon.co.uk> >Newsgroups: uk.rec.ufo >Subject: UK Government documents on-line! >Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:30:20 +0100 >I've just received a message from a non-UFO mailing list, >telling me that the Public Record Office is about to put its >_entire_ catalogue of documents on-line! >The address is: >http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/ListInt/Default.asp >- Eric >------- This is a great resource. Just wish they would make the text of these documents available online, too. Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: TUVPO 'Black' List-Hoaxed From: Bob Kathman <BKathman@microprose.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:58:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:13:23 -0400 Subject: Re: TUVPO 'Black' List-Hoaxed >From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: TUVPO 'Black' List >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:58:14 -0700 >>From: Erol Erkmen <andromeda1@turk.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: TUVPO 'Black' List >>Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:45:24 +0300 >>TUVPO 'Black' List >>You may find many expressions in web pages such as Fake, Hoax >>etc. We decided to bring a different approach when preparing >>this section. That's why we put them all under our Black List >>section. The people who prepare these fake UFO photographs and >>the other topics have not been placed here to be judged by us. ><snip> >>The others on our list are people who make up false stories, >>photographs, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and >>benefit from the weakness other people have about these topics. >>We will explain these to you as well as soon as we obtain >>definite proof. >Checked out the site, as I suspectd a lot of others did >immediately too, and was somewhat disappointed that most pages >are not in english and the language is Greek to me! Turkish? >The Roswell autopsy page was fascinating, as it contained >pictures of a crashed saucer with two occupants lying outside >the craft which was wedged into the dirt, one obviously dead a >distance out form the craft and one sitting apparently still >alive beside the craft. There are 2 versions of this photo shown. One without the "alien autopsy" body and a zoomed one one with the body. An inset shows an actual still from the Autopsy video. The angle of the bodies look exactly the same. I'd like to copy those photos and superimpose them but there is a copyright window which prevents me from pulling the images off the net. My eye tells me they are identical. I suspect someone had or made the first photo of the crashed disk, mirrored it in something like Photoshop. Then selected from another photo the body of the autopsy alien, dropped it in, reduced, blurred and with reduced contrast. In fact the lighting/contrast does not seem to match the surrounding shrubs and ground. >Although the impplication from the main page and the post, >indicate this site has examples of what they believe arae not >genuine UFO events, being unable to read the text, and seeing >photos I have never even heard of as existing, the conclusion >that I wondered if the page wasn't trying to suggest with the >autopsy video and all, is that in fact the crash was not only >real, but here are photos of it, and the dead alien on the >ground and here he is again in the still questionable atuopsy >film! To me the 2 photos are demonstrating a hoax. I can't read Turkish though. %^) I suppose there could still be another explanation for the first (alien autopsy-less) photo of the wrecked saucer. -Bob Kathman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Five Really Stupid Ideas From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:53:35 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:21:30 -0400 Subject: Five Really Stupid Ideas Five Really Stupid Ideas by J. Jaime Gesundt, Ph.D.'s 1) Life exists elsewhere in the Universe so we should look for it by searching the radio spectrum for their ham operators, every sentient and progressive culture has them you know. 2) Life exists elsewhere in the Universe but we should not look for it here, since the idea that we may have been visited by it is just so stupid since everyone knows they are trying to call us on the radio. All's we gotta do is find the right frequency. 3) People who believe they've been abducted by that other life must be crazy because of Really Stupid Idea number 2 4) People who believe they've been abducted by that other life must have been because of RSI number 1.... uh, but only if RSI number 2 is a RSI. Otherwise, RSI number 4 is not a RSI. 5) Sal Mineo was Jewish. Thank you for your attention in these matters. J. Jaime Gesundt, Ph.D.'s too numerous to mention
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' From: Gavin McLeod <gavin_mcleod@bc.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:57:10 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:25:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:07:27 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >Subject: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' <snip> Something for abduction induced anxiety? Is there any possibility (hopefully very small) of turning soldiers into "contented" killers? Gavin McLeod
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:09:09 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:29:57 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:07:41 EDT >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net <snip> I'm not going to waste any more bandwidth responding to the misinformation, confabulation and revisionism of Dr. Johnson. For those interested in learning what really happened during our first... confrontation... please look at my website www.randlereport.com. Remember that I have the unedited tapes and the documentation to corroborate what I have said and written. Dr. Johnson ignores it because it means that his latest tales have no basis in fact. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: TUVPO 'Black' List From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:39:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:48:38 -0400 Subject: Re: TUVPO 'Black' List >From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: TUVPO 'Black' List >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:58:14 -0700 >>From: Erol Erkmen <andromeda1@turk.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: TUVPO 'Black' List >>Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:45:24 +0300 >>TUVPO 'Black' List >>You may find many expressions in web pages such as Fake, Hoax >>etc. We decided to bring a different approach when preparing >>this section. That's why we put them all under our Black List >>section. The people who prepare these fake UFO photographs and >>the other topics have not been placed here to be judged by us. ><snip> >>The others on our list are people who make up false stories, >>photographs, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and >>benefit from the weakness other people have about these topics. >>We will explain these to you as well as soon as we obtain >>definite proof. >Checked out the site, as I suspectd a lot of others did >immediately too, and was somewhat disappointed that most pages >are not in english and the language is Greek to me! Lesley, Just thought I'd send you to a useful page that will translate websites for you Lesley. It's the Alta Vista translator and it can be located at the following address: http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate? Just enter the website you want translated into the window and tell it what language to convert from and to, and voila! It comes in handy. T. Lemire -- "Know that there is a Creator-Sustainer, who has made Himself knowable to Creation in direct proportion to the creatures ability to comprehend and respond." - Taken from the Andreasson Legacy by Raymond E. Fowler
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 We Met! From: Cathy Johnson <cej@pocketmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:24:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:21:45 -0400 Subject: We Met! Dear Joni, Well, I am at the first drop of the day, the last drop of my load. I am already tired, even though I slept in until 9:00 am. The roads were a mess and the breakfast at the Golden Arches gave me no energy. Now, it is noon and I wait for the unloading to be finished. I have no thought for a return load yet. If I have nothing, I will call you from the mall or message you again. It was quite unreasonable for both of us to go through that trouble we had just to meet each other. Now that we have met, there is no doubt in my mind that we grew up together, despite the fact that we lived in opposite ends of the continent. I know so much about you that just goes unsaid. And, you know so much about me that is also unsaid. We are so alike in so many ways that it is like looking in a mirror when I look at you. You do not age as fast as other humans, your capabilities mark you as being far superior to any other humans. We are a part of each other in so many ways as a result of being crew for the ship we were part of. I know there are others like us, Anna, Eileen, Carol, myself, Ashley, Jim, Richard, Whitless and the others we have yet to find that made up our little group. We will find them somehow if they are still alive. Our little Star School was not the only one. There were many other crew groups scattered all around the world and across time. We all were part of the great experiences that were the interfacing of humanity with aliens. In so many ways we crossed the gulf of life, genetics, and knowledges to reach out and be part of something so much greater than all. We were what we became a part of, something with no name, only purpose and function, only raw capabilities harnessed to the infinite, only what we created as a whole made any sense or reason for the whole picture, the whole rhyme to the dances we did, willingly or not. The needs of the many were summed and harvested by the product and needs of the one. We were all part of 'the one'. There could have not possibly have been 'the one' without each of us, and we could not possibly have been anything without the help of 'the one' who helped us in countless ways. Only when all is said and done, will there ever be a thought to the historical and futuristic records of our achievements as individuals and as part of what we became. Only now does any idea of recording our achievements has begun in fact. Oh, sure the aliens record a lot of information into their database libraries. But not yet is there any separate library of our recognitions, cudoes, and awards. That will come, I am so sure. Take care for now, Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:21:22 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:30:17 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:16:02 EDT >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net >>techniques by continuing to falsify and distort the facts >>regarding the Roswell Event of 1947 to account for his errors. >>As much as I would liked to have been the reporter to first >>announce General Ramey's "weather balloon-device" explanation to >>a waiting world about the earlier Air Force officially announced >>"capture" of a flying saucer", this simply did not happen. Even >>though such a "scoop" would have been a career enhancing feather >>in my reportorial cap, I never did and never would have made any >>such false claim though Randle's cleverly edited, >>surreptitiously obtained telephone tape seems to indicate such. >My first reaction is to ignore these comments because all the >relevant points have already been discussed. However, I will >note the following. I did not surreptitiously record the >telephone conversation. I asked permission. In fact, on one of >the tapes, you hear me ask permission and Dr. Johnson agreeing >to it. >As for the rest of his comments.... I have to laugh. As I recall from some time ago when this very issue popped up, somebody had copies of the tape of the interview and challenged Bond to put up or shut up... from the tapes, not the story he was then claiming. It was about that time that Bond and the entire issue faded away. Interesting how history continues to repeat itself. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 C.E.: 'Strange Lights' in Turkey From: Steven W. Kaeser" <steve@KONSULTING.COM> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:12:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:49:02 -0400 Subject: C.E.: 'Strange Lights' in Turkey I didn't read the recent postings on strange lights in Turkey, and hope this isn't a duplication. I was forwarded this post to a Nostradamus 'list', and thought I pass it along: ------- Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:29:59 -0400 From: "konac@pop3.ada.net.tr" <konac@pop3.ada.net.tr> Reply-To: konac@ada.net.tr To: NOSTRADAMUS <NOSTRADAMUS@listbot.com> Subject: Strange Lights NOSTRADAMUS - <http://esoterism.com/nostradamus>http://esoterism.com/nostradamus/ Hello everyone, Since Red mentioned about the strange lights seen in South Oregon, I also would like to give you some info about what's going on here in Turkey. Well, ever since the earthquake, some very strange lights are clearly seen all over Western Turkey. They are incredibly clear, circular or triangular in shape, white, yellow, red and blue colored, remain visible in the sky for 5 to 20 minutes, following a materializing-dematerializing pattern. The funny thing is it became a routine thing as they have been showing up twice or three times a week recently. They became an inevitable component of the TV news and media. Furthermore, just before the quake, the bottom of the sea in Izmit went red and the sea temperature went up to 40-45 degrees C. However, there are no underwater volcanos in the Sea of Marmara!!! Starting two days before the quake, hundreds of fish, crabs and other sea life forms died and not naturally! Somehow, they were burned!!!!! The fish nets of the fishermen were burned and we have several rock and stone samples from the sea, which went black in color. TUVPO (Turkish UFO and Paranormal Organization) is co-operating with the Smithsonian Institute and a few universities in the U.S..We already sent them some rock and burned fishnet samples, upon their request. Folks at TUVPO will hopefully run a spectrum analysis on the video tapes. Some fishermen are also saying that they witnessed an explosion under the sea. And then guess what. Fireballs, strange lights, sightings never ended in Turkey. At the same time more quakes with smaller scales are still ongoing in a wide range of area. As you know Greece was hit by a 5.9 quake a couple of days ago. Hundreds of other quakes vary from 3.5 to 5.2 in Turkey. They can't be the aftershock quakes because they occur on totally different fault lines. The following are the possibilities that are discussed here as regards to those lights: 1. UFOs 2. Anomalous Lumnious Phenomena (Earth Lights or Earthquake Lights) 3. Sudden release of methane gas from the surface of the Earth as a result of a major quake. (Not likely though) 4. Unknown underwater volcanic activity Well, no one knows what is going on here but I will appreciate your _technical_ comments, if you have any. Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with Nosty but I would also be glad if you could provide some info on that so-called Tesla and Plasma Weapon Prototypes. Sincerely, HAKAN
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:07:41 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:47:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 01:36:06 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 09:07:45 -0400 >Subject: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >NICK POPE�S WEIRD WORLD >SEPTEMBER 1999 >Hot Gossip UK > www.hotgossip.co.uk <snip> >NIDS Animal Mutilation Report >For those people interested in the disturbing cattle mutilation >phenomenon, check out the extraordinarily detailed June 1999 >report issued by the National Institute of Discovery Science. >The report details research carried out into the unexplained >death of a cow at a ranch in Utah in October 1998. Check out > www.accessnv.com/nids for details. <snip> >Nick Pope >September 1999 Hi Nick & List, Some comments to the above mentioned report. The following was discovered during the investigations: * The animal did not die a natural death. * The liquid portion of the sample was found to contain 20 parts per million of formaldehyde. Since there is no biological process that produces formaldehyde and it is not a common environmental contaminant, the source of formaldehyde is unknown. * The blue gel found on the animal might be an embalming gel. Some of the bluish gel was noticed in the thoracic cavity of the animal. This was thought to lend some credence to the hypothesis that an attempt at embalming parts of the animal (for an unknown purpose) might have taken place. * The blue gel-like substance was probably added to the animal shortly prior to, during or shortly after the time of death, and before the arrival of the rancher. * It was determined that the gel-like substance was a complex mixture, containing formaldehyde and significant levels of a _synthetic_ phenol containing compound (2,6-bis-dimethylethyl-4-methyl phenol), or BHT. * It was found that no mortuaries in either Vernal or Roosevelt, Utah admitted to using blue embalming gels. * The fetus was removed. * The animal was oriented in the north - south compass direction. * The cuts around the eye were made with a sharp instrument and not by a predator/scavenger and that no high heat was used to make the cuts. * The ear was removed with a _non-surgically_ sharp instrument. In other words not a scalpel and more significantly, not a scavenger or a predator. (However, in comparing sharpness of instruments, a caveat needs to be inserted. It is not appropriate to compare a 'sharp instrument' used on a freshly dead animal with a sharp instrument used on tissue that has been soaked in Formalin. Formalin makes the tissue much easier to cut and therefore, these cuts will look sharper with clearer edges than a cut with the same instrument made in the field before the sample is put into Formalin.) * Potassium chloride (KCl) might have been used to kill the animal. It is noteworthy that potassium chloride is a favored method for killing since (a) it is relatively easy to obtain, (b) its presence is extremely difficult to detect in post mortem samples, and (c) it kills the animal rapidly - if sufficient KCl is injected into a vein, the animal dies in seconds. * The compound 2,6-bis-dimethyl-4-methyl phenol, is also known as BHT and was present at low. BHT has anti-oxidant as well as anti-virus properties. Its non-polar nature make it ideal for inactivating lipid containing viruses. In addition, BHT has been used in Bloat Guard (manufactured by Pfizer Inc.) which is a liquid feed supplement for control of legume and wheat pasture bloat in cattle. * Claims of 'surgery' involving 'high heat' or 'laser surgery' being performed on animals found several days after death are dubious at best. ------------------------- Based on the evidence cited above, some of _my_own_ speculation /conclusions are as follows: * Some psychotic 'veterinarian(s)' undertake experiments with animals (here: In Utah). * The purpose of the 'experiment' might be to make it look like an animal mutilation undertaken by aliens (i.e., ETs). * The BHT compound, and possibly also the Formalin, were synthetic; however, yet we really don't know _where_ these compounds were synthesized.... (This opens for a possibility for synthetic production outside the Earth?) * We really dont know whether this (or these) 'vet(s)' are terrestrials or ETs, but the use of synthetic chemicals having certain well known properties strongly suggests one or more terrestrial person(s). * The animal was possibly killed using potassium chloride (KCl) as an injection directly into the veins; the suggestion is that the mutilation could _possibly_ be undertaken by _only_one_ person (most likely a terrestrial one) using e.g. head-mounted lights, or even thermal/IR "spectacles", used during the night. * The animal was oriented in the north - south compass direction, suggesting the experiment might be of some religious character. However, this could also be some misleading clue -- it _could_ be just "an ordinary" hoaxer. The experimenter(s) (the person(s)) might also belong to a "clan", or religious movement of some kind. * Similar "experiments" seem also have been undertaken at other places in the World, using some of the same procedures -- maybe undertaken by the same person(s) or "vet(s)", travelling "troughout the world". * Maybe this is just "an unusual operation", just to get the animal's fetus, for further scientific experimentation (!?). * These people possibly want some attention from the media, especially they might be enjoying the attention from the UFO media's writing. * The more it is written about this topic, the more mutilations are likely to take place, I guess... Regards, Asgeir
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:36:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:07:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' >From: Gavin McLeod <gavin_mcleod@bc.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' >Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:57:10 -0700 >Something for abduction induced anxiety? Is there any >possibility (hopefully very small) of turning soldiers into >"contented" killers? >Gavin McLeod Dear Gavin, Isn't that what combat training is all about? Amy Home Page: "http://members.tripod.com/TheVanguard"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:25:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:06:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:53:35 EDT >Subject: Five Really Stupid Ideas >To: updates@globalserve.net >Five Really Stupid Ideas >by J. Jaime Gesundt, Ph.D.'s >1) Life exists elsewhere in the Universe so we should look for > it by searching the radio spectrum for their ham operators, > every sentient and progressive culture has them you know. >2) Life exists elsewhere in the Universe but we should not look > for it here, since the idea that we may have been visited by > it is just so stupid since everyone knows they are trying to > call us on the radio. All's we gotta do is find the right > frequency. LOL! Loved this, Jim! Any time my kids or I hear someone mention SETI or more funds poured into this archaic project we die laughing (while bemoaning the stupidity). People who think "life out there" will only contact "life over here" via radio frequencies are still living in the 40's and 50's mentality. What's more, why do scientists believe "life out there" that's already _here_ would want us to know they are here if they don't want us to know they are here? As you pointed out, Jim, the logic seems to be: they have not contacted us therefore, they are not here and will not exist until they make contact. It's like the old saying, "If flying saucers are real, they would land on the White House lawn and make themselves known." Well, what if "they" don't want us to know they are here? Our governement is not the only one responsible for the cover-up, "they" are part of it too. BTW, is SETI searching for Sal Mineo too? ;> Amy Home Page: "http://members.tripod.com/TheVanguard"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Panspermia From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:48:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:25:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Panspermia >>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:50:58 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Panspermia >>>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:35:00 >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >>>Subject: Panspermia >><snip> >>>Panspermia >>>The idea that life originated elsewhere and drifted to Earth is >>>an old one, but there's a new idea how it got here. > >><snip> >>Dr. Valtonen showed from studies he and others have done that it >>is possible for life bearing asteroids and comets from other >>solar systems to make their way to Earth. I'm never quite sure what to make of the panspermia idea, and I've never understood its popularity. If the question of rise of life on this planet were totally unanswerable within conventional scientific discourse, then I would agree that the search for some sort of outside agency would be a logical step. But the point is that there are some fairly reliable scientific models that account for the appearence of lfe on earth with reference only to 'locally available' materials and conditions. I'm not even sure the panspermia theory is good science--even if dormant life is found in comets or asteroids, the notion that such organisms were responsible for the appearence of life on earth is essentially untestable. Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:53:52 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:28:59 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:21:22 EDT >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:16:02 EDT >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>techniques by continuing to falsify and distort the facts >>>regarding the Roswell Event of 1947 to account for his errors. >>>As much as I would liked to have been the reporter to first >>>announce General Ramey's "weather balloon-device" explanation to >>>a waiting world about the earlier Air Force officially announced >>>"capture" of a flying saucer", this simply did not happen. Even >>>though such a "scoop" would have been a career enhancing feather >>>in my reportorial cap, I never did and never would have made any >>>such false claim though Randle's cleverly edited, >>>surreptitiously obtained telephone tape seems to indicate such. >>My first reaction is to ignore these comments because all the >>relevant points have already been discussed. However, I will >>note the following. I did not surreptitiously record the >>telephone conversation. I asked permission. In fact, on one of >>the tapes, you hear me ask permission and Dr. Johnson agreeing >>to it. >>As for the rest of his comments.... I have to laugh. >As I recall from some time ago when this very issue popped up, >somebody had copies of the tape of the interview and challenged >Bond to put up or shut up ... from the tapes, not the story he >was then claiming. It was about that time that Bond and the >entire issue faded away. Interesting how history continues to >repeat itself. >Cheers, >Robert Before Bond and the "entire issue" fade away perhaps it might be useful in deciding credibility by glancing at just who Randle and Johnson are. KRandle, in his latest posting, invites UPDATES Listees to check out his web site to learn the truth! In doing so one can be impressed that KRandle proudly points to his recently obtained "Ph.D. degree in Psychology," obtained at California Coast University .. a "university" that has NO campus and NO library and NO resident faculty .. and not even a football team! In its online "mission" statement CCU boasts that degree "programs can be completed through independent, self-paced instruction which does not require attendance at any specific location, either on or off-campus." Dr. Johnson has been since 1960 a board certified and state licensed clinical psychologist in private practice in California. He also is retired after 50 years as a United Methodist Church minister. KRandle also boasts that he is pursuing another master's degree in military science at American Military University, another "distance learning" institution that hasn't bothered yet to establish a campus or resident faculty. He proudly proclaims that he was retired as an intelligence officer in the grade of captain. Johnson's military service spanned 43 years with active duty during three wars. After graduation as class leader of more than 500 students at the US Army Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, KS he served as a distinguished consulting faculty member there. He also attended the Air War College. He was for 11 years an instructor and department director of the Psychological Operations Officers School at Fort Bragg, NC. He had four Pentagon tours in the Special Operations Division, Department of the Army and the Joint Staff and was a consultant in psycho-political strategy to the National Security Council at the White House. He is retired from the US Army in the grade of colonel.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' From: James Bouck <JGBOUCK@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:32:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:32:47 -0400 Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' :: : Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:25:09 EDT Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' To: updates@globalserve.net : : : : >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:05:56 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >Subject: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' No evidence exists that Earth has been visited by aliens, said >Jacqueline Mitton of the Royal Astronomical Society, above, who >appeared with an inflatable alien. She believes that obsession >with UFOs has delayed legitimate research into the possibility >of intelligent life elsewhere. "There is very clear public >support for such research," Dr Mitton said, "but it is not >supported by governments, who have been frightened off. There >probably is, was or will be life elsewhere in the universe, but >it could be so scattered in time and space that we won't >intersect with it. We could be visited by alien intelligences. >We just don't have any evidence." Sounds like just a bunch of excuses to me. If a scientist was really convinced that there was other life elsewhere you would think that they would exhaust all avenues to prove it one way or the other. Instead they are just afraid of losing grants and won't stand up to their real convictions. Jim Bouck NYMUFON-ASD
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:00:22 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:56:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' >From: Gavin McLeod <gavin_mcleod@bc.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' >Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:57:10 -0700 >>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:07:27 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >>Subject: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' ><snip> >Something for abduction induced anxiety? Is there any >possibility (hopefully very small) of turning soldiers into >Gavin McLeod Dear Gavin and List: I do not think you should worry over that particular issue. We already have an entire cadre of killers working in governments the world over, without having had to resort to drugs, chips or Gripple even. They just like to hurt and kill. Easy to find, eh! No further motivation required. The real concern may be over the dulling of people's ability to think clearly on issues which, should they become aware of what certain governments have done wrong, would require them to go ballistic and overthrow those governments, or certainly, give them a real hard time for holding out on them. A good way to do this is the entertainment industry, of which this particular venue on which we are communicating, may very well be a part. Planting a chip immediately after birth might be a really neat way to do the job as well. Something like soothing the furrowed brow during an abduction, relaxing the trigger finger in the event we still have guns left to pull the trigger, ah, during germ warfare testing on the population or military practicing on the citizens, providing the appropriate medication for, oh, just aboot any and all circumstances which, should the need arise, our erected leaders can pull their own triggers and dull the savage beast within their populations. Neat idea, huh? Do you think I've given them any ideas? That they are too stupid to have come up with this idea on their own? Nah! J. Jaime
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:48:45 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:50:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:53:35 EDT >Subject: Five Really Stupid Ideas >To: updates@globalserve.net >Five Really Stupid Ideas >by J. Jaime Gesundt, Ph.D.'s James, >1) Life exists elsewhere in the Universe so we should look for > it by searching the radio spectrum for their ham operators, > every sentient and progressive culture has them you know. Major Tom to Ground control - David Bowie Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft - Klaatu And what was Karen Carpenters song on the same wavelength? What I am trying to say is _we_ have been asking them to call us Jim. >2) Life exists elsewhere in the Universe but we should not look > for it here, since the idea that we may have been visited by > it is just so stupid since everyone knows they are trying to > call us on the radio. All's we gotta do is find the right > frequency. But if we have been visited???? >3) People who believe they've been abducted by that other life > must be crazy because of Really Stupid Idea number 2 Hmmm, but.... what about crazy idea number six? >4) People who believe they've been abducted by that other life > must have been because of RSI number 1.... uh, but only if > RSI number 2 is a RSI. Otherwise, RSI number 4 is not a RSI. So if two equals one, and four equals zero then three equals ? Answers on a postcard..... >5) Sal Mineo was Jewish. Who the hell was Sal Mineo? >Thank you for your attention in these matters. Anything that you bring to my attention James will be attended. <g> >J. Jaime Gesundt, Ph.D.'s too numerous to mention Sean Jones, not a Ph.D. to his name. -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 16 The Challenge From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:16:48 -0400 Subject: The Challenge Hello All, Some of you that have been following UpDates (for longer than many of us care to remember) are aware that I have been struggling to get an investigation by independent experts of any 'physical material' (i.e.; evidence of foreign objects in the bodies of the abductees, the 'writing' samples that some investigators have gathered, unusual or unexplained marks and scars etc.) I have even repeatedly offered myself up to these "experts" (to no avail) as well. To date, nothing has happened. We would all be a lot closer to finding the answers to some important questions if the physical material is finally analysed. A huge part of the difficulty in accomplishing it has to do with funding and gathering the material from those that have so painstakingly collected it over the years. As for the first one, 'funding:' I had an opportunity to bounce this idea off of Richard Hall (FUFOR) several years ago. He was willing to help, (at that time.) He put me in touch with his brother who, in turn, referred me to a group of physicians in Chicago who may be interested in conducting an analysis of the material. I spoke with one of these doctors and they -were interested.- So why didn't it happen? It didn't happen because it would have taken a long and sustained full time effort on my part to insure that it got off the ground. At the time I was busy so creating and running the online version of the Intruders Foundation, and creating AIC for the experiencers. (An 'unpaid' full time job in itself!) I simply couldn't add another 'unpaid' full time job to my list without sacrificing the peace in my marriage of thirty years. (Married guys will understand! <lol>) For that, and 'other reasons', I was unable to see the thing through. The other 'obstacle' to such a study (and the more formidable of the two) had to do with getting authors, investigators, and researchers to contribute any relevant material they may be in possession of. That part is like pulling teeth and requires the experience and know how of a 'diplomat extraodinaire'! Those of you that 'know' me will testify to the fact that I may be called a great many things but "diplomat" is not among them! :) If this is 'done right' I'm sure that Richard Hall/FUFOR would help to find the necessary funding for it. I'm just as sure that he would use any of the human resources at his disposal to insure that the study is conducted responsibly and by competent and independent experts. (Experts with no personal 'stake' in the outcome.) As for the authors, investigators, and researchers; the "challenge" is, to -voluntarily- contribute any materials that may help to find answers to questions which -continue to go unanswered.- It is a social and ethical imperative that they do so. The ones who are 'paying the price' for all the procrastination is the experiencers/ the abductees themselves. The most 'righteous' question that any skeptic or believer alike has is; "Where's the physical evidence?" We -all- deserve an answer to that one. The sad truth is, unless the complete cooperation of all concerned is enlisted, those "answers" will not be forthcoming. It's a shame that a nobody jamoke like me is the only one actively calling for a study of this material. It's an even bigger shame that those who profit most from our reports (UFO authors, investigators, and researchers) have not yet made any effort among themselves to have an independent analysis of their findings/collected material performed and published. Everyone should take the time to write to Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, John Carpenter et al and -ask them- to collectively contribute any materials they may be in possession of that may help to advance what little is known about UFO abductions. If it turns out that they _don't_ have anything of value in stock then that fact should also be known. I'm 'gut sick' over the incessant debate and chatter that could all be quelled immediately with a single scientific study. This information belongs to all humanity. Human rights are being grossly violated by authors/investigators that 'hoard' and 'covet' evidential data they have gathered. The pressure should be as strong (if not stronger) for them to cooperate with a study, than the public pressure on the government to release whatever they may have. Other than using the material to write and sell more books, if they are hoarding data, they are no different from the monkey boys in Washington DC that spend all their time hoarding what they have! I say boycott them all, don't buy the books or attend the lectures) until they -all- submit their data/proof for independent scientific analysis. Why bother with it otherwise? A big part of the problem with ufology has to do with the acceptance and support of material that amounts to nothing more than anecdotes (if not accompanied by some form of proof or at least a willingness to have it verified independently.) I don't know, would you take a drug that the manufacturer alone told you was safe? Or, would you prefer to take one that was thoroughly tested and studied by experts who are -independent- of the manufacturer? I can't figure out why the same criteria that is applied to something that you'd put in your body, is not applied to the things we put into our minds! Enough talk. Let's demand a study and, that the authors and investigators that we have supported with our dollars over the years, contribute what data/material they can to the effort. There are many ways to do it, but FUFOR seems like a good choice as a central coordinator for such a study and one that many would trust and have some confidence in. Action, action, we want action! John Velez, Tired abductee activist ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:00:22 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:08:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' >From: Gavin McLeod <gavin_mcleod@bc.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' >Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:57:10 -0700 >>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:07:27 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >>Subject: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' ><snip> >Something for abduction induced anxiety? Is there any >possibility (hopefully very small) of turning soldiers into >"contented" killers? >Gavin McLeod Dear Gavin and List: I do not think you should worry over that particular issue. We already have an entire cadre of killers working in governments the world over, without having had to resort to drugs, chips or Gripple even. They just like to hurt and kill. Easy to find, eh! No further motivation required. The real concern may be over the dulling of people's ability to think clearly on issues which, should they become aware of what certain governments have done wrong, would require them to go ballistic and overthrow those governments, or certainly, give them a real hard time for holding out on them. A good way to do this is the entertainment industry, of which this particular venue on which we are communicating, may very well be a part. Planting a chip immediately after birth might be a really neat way to do the job as well. Something like soothing the furrowed brow during an abduction, relaxing the trigger finger in the event we still have guns left to pull the trigger, ah, during germ warfare testing on the population or military practicing on the citizens, providing the appropriate medication for, oh, just aboot any and all circumstances which, should the need arise, our erected leaders can pull their own triggers and dull the savage beast within their populations. Neat idea, huh? Do you think I've given them any ideas? That they are too stupid to have come up with this idea on their own? Nah! J. Jaime
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: We Met! From: Joni Ferris <jferris@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:07:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:35:14 -0400 Subject: Re: We Met! >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:24:28 -0700 >From: Cathy Johnson <cej@pocketmail.com> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: We Met! Hello Cathy! >Well, I am at the first drop of the day, the last drop of my >load. I am already tired, even though I slept in until 9:00 am. >The roads were a mess and the breakfast at the Golden Arches >gave me no energy. Now, it is noon and I wait for the unloading >to be finished. I have no thought for a return load yet. If I >have nothing, I will call you from the mall or message you >again. >It was quite unreasonable for both of us to go through that >trouble we had just to meet each other. Now that we have met, >there is no doubt in my mind that we grew up together, despite >the fact that we lived in opposite ends of the continent. I was great finally getting together with you! ;-) >I >know so much about you that just goes unsaid. And, you know so >much about me that is also unsaid. We are so alike in so many >ways that it is like looking in a mirror when I look at you. >You do not age as fast as other humans, I do think it is because they have taken us "out" of time. >your capabilities mark >you as being far superior to any other humans. We are a part of >each other in so many ways as a result of being crew for the >ship we were part of. I know there are others like us, Anna, >Eileen, Carol, myself, Ashley, Jim, Richard, Whitless and the >others we have yet to find that made up our little group. We >will find them somehow if they are still alive. Isn't it great? I hope to find the others also. Best regards, Joni http://www.starfriends.com email list for contactees, abductees and UFO researchers
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:26:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:37:55 -0400 Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:05:56 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >Subject: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' Old clich. Typical for a skeptical astronomer to say that. Has anyone attempted to "educate" this person about the overwhelming evidence that exists? I'm getting sick and tired of these people going off, half informed, and speaking out against a subject they know nothing about. Michel M. Deschamps "All I ask is for an objective consideration of all the evidence. Anyone who won't do that isn't really entitled to an opinion." -- Travis Walton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 16 Australian UFO Sighting Reports - 16.09.1999 From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:46:03 +1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:44:26 -0400 Subject: Australian UFO Sighting Reports - 16.09.1999 Australian UFO Sighting Reports via Independent Groups and Independent UFO investigators. OZ Files 16.09.1999 Hi everyone Just a few posts to keep you all informed of what is going on here in OZ. Over the past few nights we have had quite a few UFO reports from "All over Australia. The UFO Hotline has been running hot. When I get more feed back I will post them out for all to read. Enjoy {:>) Regards Diane Harrison & the "A Team" Co Director Australian UFO Research Network & the UFO Hotline Australian Skywatch Director The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia E-Mail tkbnetw@fan.net.au http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw/new Australian UFO Research Network Hot Line Number 1800 77 22 88 Free Call _______________________________________________ Australian UFO Sighting Reports via Independent Groups and Independent UFO investigators. _______________________________________________ Subject 1 : FOLLOWUP Tony Cook VUFORS 1800 Call In Code: 000301.13.09.1999 Report: Tony Cook VUFORS Sunday 12/9 approx 20:45 Dandenong VIC Chris was outside Dandenong Hospital talking with a friend when he noticed in the South East a light that was similar to a landing light of an aircraft heading towards the North West. No shape could be discerned. Object travelled until nearly overhead then hovered for approx. 5 minutes. During this time it was seen to "pulse" and travel off in a South Westerly direction until obscured by trees. There was some cloud cover at the time. Object was below the cloud. Chris explained that he is very used to seeing aircraft of many types including the blimp but that this object was not recognisable as any of these. Further information has been requested. Regards, Tony Cook VUFORS Secretary *********************************************************** Subject 2. FOLLOWUP Tony Cook VUFORS 1800 Call In Code: 00302.13.09.1999 Date 13.09.1999 Day: Monday Time Reported: 5.20pm Source: Luke W Location: Vic Tel 03 98 Report Given to nearest Rep: Tony Cook VUFORS Message 3 people witnessed a day time UFO please Regards Diane Harrison _____________________ Report:Tony Cook VUFORS Monday 13/9/99 11:45->13:00 Box Hill VIC Luke is a builder and was working on Monday when he noticed a pinpoint of white light stationary in the clear sky to the NNE. First impression from Luke was that it was a balloon of some sort as it occasionally seemed to reflect the sun. The object first appeared to be quite high in altitude but gradually descended. After descending, it grew in apparent size from a "pinpoint" to the "head of nail" while also changing colour to red. The object then performed some very fast movements, appearing to jump across small portions of the sky. During this time, it was difficult for the visitors to maintain sight of the object. Luke, his boss and another workmate all observed the object before is disappeared into the South East. Further information has been requested. Regards, Tony Cook VUFORS ****************************************************** Subject 3. FOLLOWUP Tony Cook VUFORS 1800 Call In Code: 00305.12.09.1999 Date 12th 09 1999 Day:Sunday Time Reported: 10.45pm Source: Jenny Location: Vic Tel 03 93 Report Given to nearest Rep: Tony Cook VUFORS Message Hi Tony Jenny rang to say she saw a bright star like object. I would take a guess it was a planet from the description. Twinkling Blue red orange ???? Regards Diane Harrison ____________________ Report: Tony Cook VUFORS Object was viewed over 3 nights in the same direction at similar times. It was determined that Jenny was viewing Jupiter as it rose in the East at around 22:00. Weather in Melbourne has been unseasonably good with days of clear skies. You know what they say: "Melbourne.... beautiful one minute....." Regards, Tony Cook VUFORS ********************************************************************* Independent UFO Report from Sydney NSW Sighting Report from Rocio Riveiro Date: 15th 9 1999 Location: Penrith NSW AT 644 pm last night (15/9/99) I watched a bright orange light over South Penrith. I stopped the car on York Street to make sure it wasn't an aeroplane, and I couldn't see any little flashing light. It moved slowly to the east, then a little to the north-east, then it stopped right over York Street (southern end). I had a torch and even though I felt a little silly doing this, I flashed it a few times (I read somewhere that some people had some luck because the object had flashed back) ... anyway, no luck. So I decided to follow it ... and then it faded into a little pin point of light, like a star and then it disappeared. I decided to turn back to the office and after a few drive-arounds, I saw it again, as bright as the first time, and it moved towards York Street again. This time I didn't follow it. When I got back to the office, another lady saw it too and she watched it do the same things. I asked her if she had seen any little aeroplane flashing lights and she said no. cheers :) Rocio Riveiro ............Thanks Rocio ***************************************************** FOLLOWUP Peter Johnson AUFORN SA 1800 Call In Code: 00304.13.09.1999 Date 13th 9 1999 Day: Monday Time Reported: 8.40pm Source: Meg Location: Green Beach Adelaide Report Given to nearest Rep: Peter Johnson AUFORN South Aust _____________________________ Report by Peter Johnson AUFORN Hi Di I rang Meg Garner tonight 18:30 she told me that she and her two kids were at Green's Beach near Adelaide last night 13.9.99 at about 8:30when she saw two stars move they were orange balls with blue around them and orangy red tails she only saw them for a short time and then they disappeared. Ten minutes later she saw some more (I think she said 5 but I'm not sure) with orange tails again these just disappeared. Meg is 18 years old, I am sending her a report form tomorrow. Cheers Peter Keep up the good work Regards Di :>)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 16 CPR-Canada News: New Crop Formation - Midale, From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:31:45 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:45:45 -0400 Subject: CPR-Canada News: New Crop Formation - Midale, CPR-Canada News News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 New Crop Formation - Midale, Saskatchewan September 16, 1999 _____________________________ Editor: Paul Anderson _____________________________ Preliminary Report - September 16 By Paul Anderson Another crop circle formation was reported to CPR-Canada on Tuesday, September 14; it is located near Midale, Saskatchewan, where three formations were also reported last year. A grouping of two simple circles, another circle with a surrounding ring, and a larger circle similar to a "medicine wheel" (a Native Indian symbol), with "curved pathways" crossing through it, in the same wheat field. Initially reported August 14 by Sylvia MacBean, a reporter with the Leader Post newspaper in Regina, Saskatchewan. Story with aerial photo in the August 15 edition of the paper. Formation found on August 6 (farmer's name and location withheld by request at this point). Farmer described no damage to the crop, with all formations perfectly flattened down to the ground, with no signs of entry pathways, etc. Formations and the entire field have been left intact and will be sampled this week for the BLT Research Team. According to Jeff Rudichuk, CPR-Saskatchewan coordinator, a radiation physicist will also be at the site in the next day or two to measure with a gieger counter and complete soil testing. Field report, images when available. This is the tenth formation reported now for this year. Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada _____________________________ Circle Phenomena in Canada Report Archive 1999: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html A reminder for all Canadian subscribers / readers - your assistance is welcome and needed - ANY reports of other possible circles this year, please do let us know as soon as possible! See Reporting and Field Research Guidelines on the web site for more information: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reporting.html REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522 _____________________________ CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International), and is published periodically or as breaking news develops, with the latest news and information and is available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or "unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.c CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions. Forward all correspondence to: CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Office Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 � Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 1999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:45:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:47:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:07:41 +0200 <snip> >* These people possibly want some attention from the media, >especially they might be enjoying the attention from the UFO >media's writing. Interesting points, Asgeir. One point I might add is one that is frequently overlooked. The fact that these mutilated animals are found at all is significant. Why take a cow or some other animal - including humans, mutilate them then return them back where they will be found? We must consider possible motivations of the Mutilator or Mutilators that return the mutilated creature and/or leave it where it will be found. One may speculate that: 1)the Mutilator simply doesn't care if the remains are found, 2)the Mutilator has a disposal problem, 3)the animal was mutilated on the spot, or 4) the Mutilator _wants_ the corpse found. We must consider the possibility that animal mutilations may be part of some psychological program intended to impact human belief systems in certain ways or as part of some kind of psychological experiment. We must also consider the possibility that animal mutilations - the parts excised, procedures used, positions in which the animals are found, etc. - may have _no_ meaning whatsoever (same for crop circles) aside from their psychological effects on human paradigms. One important pattern in all mutilations, speculations aside, is the very presence of a corpse as opposed to no corpse at all. Amy Home Page: "http://members.tripod.com/TheVanguard"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 16 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 21 From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:51:23 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:23:22 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 21 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 4, Number 21 September 16, 1999 Editor: Joseph Trainor ALIEN CAPTURED IN JORDAN? "An unidentified creature which terrorized the people and poultry of the northern Jordanian town of Mafraq was captured Sunday night," July 25, 1999. "'Townsfolk first sighted the small, cat-like animal a month ago (June 1999) but then it started appearing on a nightly basis, devouring dozens of hens and pigeons,' said an official from the Mafraq governorate." "The small-headed creature with disproportionately large eyes, teeth and tail was hunted down after townsfolk lodged complaints that the animal was prowling Mafraq's residential quarters by night." "The official speculated that the animal could have been drawn to Mafraq, which lies on the edge of the (Hauran) desert 100 kilometres (60 miles) north of Amman," the capital of Jordan, "bythis year's drought. The animal, nicknamed Al-Massara, has been handed to local vets (veterinarians--J.T.) to determine its species, but it was not known if it was the only such creature at large in the town." (See the National Post of Toronto for July 27, 1999, "Police end unidentified creature's reign of terror." See also UFO Newsclipping Service for August 1999. Many thanks to Lou Farish for this news story.) (Editor's Comment: After I received this report, I did a little background research and came up with three interesting facts, which may or may not have anything to do with Al-Massara. (1) The airport just north of al-Mafraq is the headquarters of a jet interceptor wing of the Royal Jordanian Air Force. The wing flies French-built Mirage 2000 fighters. (2) Al-Mafraq contains the headquarters of the 2nd Mechanized Division of the Jordan Arab Army, which consists of two mechanized infantry brigades and a tank brigade. (3) About 20 kilometers (12 miles) east of al-Mafraq, across the Wadi az-Zatari, lie the ruins of Umm al-Jimal, a mysterious pre- Canaanite city with buildings made of black basalt. The ruined city was first found by the Romans in 175 A.D. The inhabitants fled after a catastrophic earthquake in 747 A.D., and it became a ghost town after that. More importantly, where is Al-Massara? Probably in Camp Condon...in the same Quonset hut with the Varginha Seven.) TRIANGULAR UFO SEEN AGAIN IN ISRAEL On Friday, August 27, 1999, Israeli ufologist David Ronen spotted a large triangular UFO cruising over Tel Aviv. Rushing to the telephone, Ronen called fellow ufologist Gil Bar, 16, and told him, "The craft is heading for Rishon Letzion. Get your camera!" Grabbing his videocamera, Bar hurried to the rooftop of his home, just in time to see the craft passing overhead. Instantly he began shooting and got two minutes of video before the camera's battery failed. According to Barry Chamish, the triangular UFO was "identical to the one seen by Adrian Zvir over Rishon Letzion in October 1998." (Many thanks to Barry Chamish for letting UFO Roundup quote from his report.) BRITISH TOURISTS SPOT UFO IN PORTUGAL On Monday, August 30, 1999, at 10 p.m., Andrew M., his wife, and two fellow tourists from UK "were returning to our villa near Carvoeiro in the Portuguese Algarve" region "when all four adult occupants saw a red/gold light in the sky. I guess at around 15,000 to 20,000 feet, travelling from the west toward the southern coast of Spain." (Across the Golfo de Cadiz in the general direction of Palos de la Frontera--J.T.) "Its movements were erratic," Andrew reported, "First of all slow, then extremely fast, certainly not in the smooth manner of a jet. It was hard to tell the shape, but the light was a very regular glow, and I would guess that in daylight it would be disc-shaped." "Several other cars seemed to stop and stare. But instead of stopping, we rushed back to the villa for the videocamera, by which time it was so far away I am certain it would not have shown up on film." The following day, Tuesday, August 31, 1999, Andrew and his wife "saw a military-type plane fly past very low but in the opposite direction," i.e. from east to west. Carvoeiro is about 150 kilometers (90 miles) southeast of Lisboa, Portugal's national capital. (Muito obrigado a John Hayes por eso caso.) UFOs SIGHTED OVER LOUGH NEAGH IN ULSTER At 11 p.m. on Wednesday, August 15, 1999, telephones at the Armagh Planetarium and police stations in Northern Ireland, as residents reported UFOs and strange phenomena over nearby Lough (Lake) Neagh. According to Miles Johnston, the flap continued for five straight days, ending on Monday, August 22, 1999 at 4 a.m. Each UFO overflight began at 11 p.m. each night and ended at 4 o'clock the following morning. "Sightings included large rings of light, with inner rings, over a several-hundred-square- mile area," plus "groups of flying discs flying in formation." Witnesses also reported seeing "a U.S. Air Force AWACS plane accompanied by two red triangular aircraft," Johnston added, "They flew over Northern Ireland at only 4,000 feet." Strangest of all were the reports of "rays of black light" streaming down from the night sky and "some illuminations identical to the Aurora Borealis but due south" of Lough Neagh. Armagh is 42 miles (70 kilometers) southwest of Belfast. (Many thanks to Miles Johnston for this report.) (Editor's Comment: Black rays streaming down from space!? Even for mystical Ireland, that's weird!) UFO SEEN BY FIVE PEOPLE NEAR BRIGHTON, IOWA On Sunday, September 5, 1999, at 8:54 p.m., five people "observed a strange bright light in the eastern sky" while at a privately-owned pond 20 miles (32 kilometers) northwest of Brighton, Iowa (population 684.) According to the witnesses, the UFO "moved both horizontally and vertically with no apparent pattern. The light also appeared and disappeared sporadically...The light that was observed was a very bright white light." The witnesses observed the UFO for 20 minutes at first. During this time, it "disappeared eight times in 20 minutes before disappearing completely...It moved only a matter of 20 to 25 degrees from the horizon and about 10 to 15 degrees to the south-southeast before it suddenly disappeared." A few minutes later, the UFO returned, "and the light was observed for 15 minutes before it vanished again." Brighton is on Iowa Highway 1 approximately 167 miles (267 kilometers) southeast of Des Moines. (Many thanks to John E.L. Tenney for this report.) CYLINDRICAL SILVER UFO SEEN IN TENNESSEE On Tuesday, September 7, 1999, at 10:15 p.m., a white 37-year-old businessman was driving home through a newly-built neighborhood just north of Gallatin, Tennessee (population 18,794) when he spotted "a silver-colored object" in the sky. "I was driving to my new home in a new subdivision, when I spotted an object flying slowly about a quarter-mile (0.4 kilometers) away," he reported, "I looked at it again and noticed that it was not casting a reflection. I was a bright metallic silver object, unlike any aircraft that I have ever seen. The object was moving very slowly, almost hovering over a wooded area" on the north side of Gallatin. "I turned off my car and got out to see if I could hear anything and make sure it wasn't a reflection in the window of my car. It was there, plain to see. It was cylindrical in shape and moving ever so slowly. The object had absolutely no sound. Within ten seconds, the object just disappeared from my sight." Gallatin is on Tennessee Highways 174 and 25 about 24 miles (38 kilometers) northeast of Nashville, the state capital. (Many thanks to Kenneth Young of Cincinnati UFO Research for this report.) BRIGHT UFO SPOTTED IN SANTA ANA, CALIFORNIA On Thursday, September 9, 1999, at 5:40 a.m., a man heading for work "saw a strange bright light in the sky" over Santa Ana, California (population 293,742), a suburb of Los Angeles. "He didn't know if it was a satellite or what," John B. reported, "He called me over to look. At first I didn't see it. But then I did. It was brighter than any star. It was big, too." John said they were near the intersection of Fairview and Segerstrom in Santa Ana when they saw the UFO. Santa Ana is south of the Garden Grove Freeway, about 28 miles (44 kilometers) southeast of Los Angeles City Hall. (Many thanks to John B. for this report.) STRANGE BRIGHT LIGHTS SEEN BY DOZENS NEAR FORT MYERS, FLORIDA "Bright lights described by some as very colorful and by others as very large had southwest Florida's earliest risers scratching their heads around 4:30 a.m. Tuesday," September 7, 1999, "and wondering whether aliens were landing." "Betty Scofield was having her morning coffee on her front porch in Cape Coral (population 74,991) as bright lights hovered in the sky. Scofield said she believed the lights were two planes coming in for a landing at Southwest Florida International Airport but said she was a little worried because both lights were low on the horizon." "It wasn't until Scofield arrived at work in the communications department of the Lee County Sheriff's Office that the reality--or lack of it--set in." The planes, if that's what they were, were not making any noise. 'I went, uh-oh,' Scofield said, 'I never thought about UFOs before.'" "People all down the Gulf (of Mexico) coast of Florida, and as far inland as Orlando, were thinking about UFOs, too, said George Diller, a spokesman for Kennedy Space Center in Cape Canaveral." "The chance that aliens were involved? 'None,' Diller said. Instead, he said the lights were caused by space junk, from a spent stage of a Russian rocket coming down over the Gulf of Mexico. The rocket was used to launch a communications satellite." "Diller said the light show was so bright because the objects were illuminated by the sun's light from the other side of the world." "Spectacular, but also frightening, said Cathy Ingrim, who saw the lights from the pier at Fort Myers Beach. The Fort Myers resident and another woman were fishing from the pier at Fort Myers Beach when sometime between 4:30 and 5 a.m. colored bright lights and smoke appeared very low on the horizon." "'We were just dumbfounded the whole time,' Ingrim said. 'It was almost like a huge mass of shooting stars, balls of fire. It was like green, red and yellow. There was light smoke.'" Fort Myers (population 45,206) is on Florida Highway 41 about 152 miles (243 kilometers) west of Miami. (See the Fort Myers, Fla. News Press for September 7, 1999, story by Eileen Kelley. Many thanks to Linda Jacobson for forwarding this newspaper article.) MORE CROP CIRCLES APPEAR IN CANADA On Thursday, September 2, 1999, farmer Lyle Ami was combining his field near Conquest, Saskatchewan, Canada (population 85) when he encountered two crop circles. According to Paul Anderson of Circles Phenomenon Research-Canada, one crop circle was 36 feet (10.9 meters) in diameter, while the other was 30 feet (9.09 meters) in diameter. "Both have an identical 'cross' feature attached," Paul reported, "Both were pointing to the southeast." The formation was found four miles (6 kilometers) south of Conquest. In 1998, Conquest was the site of another highly- publicized crop circle incident. The 1998 circles also had a cross attached and were aligned to the southeast. Conquest is just north of Provincial Highway 7, about 50 miles (80 kilometers) southwest of Saskatoon. In eastern Canada, a farmer named Bernard Handrahan reported finding two small crop circles on his land on Prince Edward Island. The circles were found in mid-August, and Handrahan described them as "perfectly circular with extended centres." The circles measured 18 feet (5.4 meters) and 12 feet (3.6 meters) in diameter. The circles were found in a blueberry field at Christopher Cross, near Tignish, P.E.I., which is located on the island's North Cape about 78 miles (125 kilometers) northwest of Charlottetown. (See the Charlottetown, P.E.I. Guardian for August 28, 1999. Many thanks to Paul Anderson of CPR-Canada for this report.) Y2K: U.S., RUSSIAN OFFICERS TO OBSERVE MISSILE LAUNCH DATA ON NEW YEAR'S EVE "Russia has accepted an offer to place its military officers at a joint monitoring center in Colorado to observe U.S. missile warning data during the 2000 transition. Defense Secretary William Cohen is to sign the agreement Monday," September 13, 1999, "in Moscow." "The Pentagon said Friday that Cohen also will discuss arms control with his Russian counterpart, Gen. Igor Sergeyev. The visit is designed to put U.S.-Russian military relations back on track after Moscow severed most contacts last spring in protest of the U.S.-led NATO bombing of Yugoslavia." "Last fall, U.S. and Russian military experts had begun discussing the idea of a joint station for monitoring U.S. missile warning data, but progress was halted when the war with Yugoslavia started in March." "A senior Pentagon official said Friday," September 10, 1999, "that Moscow indicated in August that it would accept the offer. The facility will be called the Y2K Center for Strategic Stability and will be based at Peterson Air Force Base, Colorado." "The center is to begin operating 24 hours a day with Russian and U.S. monitoring teams in December. It will be terminated in January. The Russians will have 10 to 20 officers there." "The center's purpose is to provide reassurance to the Russians on potemtial accidental missile launches--either by the United States or other countries--resulting from Y2K computer glitches. U.S. officals have said they don't anticipate Y2K problems with either U.S. or Russian missile systems. It also would provide reassurance in case a computer glitch affected Russia's radar system." "No one thinks 'we're teetering on the edge of a potential false launch,' the U.S. official said. However, if there were a problem, both sides feel it would be useful to have officers in direct contact with each other." (See the Minneapolis, Minn. Star-Tribune for September 11, 1999, page A4, "Russians to join U.S. officers at missile center for Y2K transition.") from the UFO Files... 1948: STRANGE CRUISE OF THE HUDSON Ninety-eight years ago, on September 16, 1901, the steamer Hudson lost her steering engine and foundered in Lake Superior off upper Michigan's Keweenaw peninsula. All 24 members of the crew drowned when this 320-foot steamship, with its distinctive two black smokestacks aft, plunged to the bottom. Trouble is, the Hudson won't stay in her watery grave. On September 16, 1948, a tugboat fisherman we'll call "Gary Olsen" was dropping his gill nets in Lake Superior northwest of Eagle Harbor, Michigan, near the top of the Keweenaw, when he encountered a strange, thick fog. "Without warning it wasn't fog any more but the tall sides of a vessel directly off the bow. Throwing the wheel hard over, the captain barely swung the tug clear of the stranger.. The other vessel wasn't moving but drifting dead with the swell." Olsen and his mate were amazed to see a ship "about 300 feet long and she had the smallest pilothouse he had ever seen on a freighter. The twin stacks were unusual, too. One of them was also knocked over, and the other looked none too steady...The steamer's decks, like her sides, were covered with a slimy brown coating. Great rust bubbles were everywhere." When the silent ship refused to answer his hails, Gary rowed over there in his gig and climbed onto the foredeck.. "Climbing the companionway, he paused for a second at the closed pilothouse door. Opening the door, he found two men, or what once were men, staring straight at him. One, the farthest away, held the wheel fast in his bony hands. The other, evidently the captain, judging from his short peaked cap, stood closest to him. To the tug man, both looked like death warmed over. Thin and gaunt in stature, their ragged clothes hung loose over emaciated limbs. Their faces were white and chalky with leathery skin drawn tight against their skulls. The eyes were the worst of all. They were lifeless, black as coal and without a single spark of animation." Gary asked what was going on. Why were they adrift in a busy shipping lane "in this fog thicker than my mother's bean soup?" "Speaking slowly and with a voice resonating deep and cold, the steamer's captain replied, 'We are beyond help--have been for many a year. And indeed we are a wreck. Don't you know what ship this is?'" "Backing away slightly, the tug man said, 'Your name was covered by rust. I couldn't make it out as I circled you.'" "In the same tired voice, the master replied, 'Why, this is the Hudson, lost September 16, 1901, in this very spot. Twenty-four men went to the bottom with her. It's cursed we are, damned by the devil himself. Every year we must come up, only to be dragged down again. Haven't you heard all the tales--of ghost ships and spirit sailors and haunted spots on the lakes? Well, it's true. We are the proof. If you know what's good for you, you will get off this damned ship now, this very instant. Our time is almost done.'" "The tug man never looked back. He bolted out the door and ran as fast as his legs would carry him-- flying down the companionway to the weather deck and on to the place where he first climbed aboard." Rowing like a madman, Gary reached the tugboat, scrambled aboard and fired up the Kahlenberg engine. The mate asked, "Now what was that all about?" "You wouldn't believe me, and I ain't going to tell you," Gary replied, "Steady her up north- northeast. I've got a feeling this ain't a healthy place to be." "What about our nets?" "To hell with them!" Gary snapped, "Get her out of here--now!" No sooner had the Olsen tugboat got under way than the weather changed. "Within minutes the lake was churned into a savage gale. Waves assaulted the tug from every side in a confused melee of water. The glass in the portside pilothouse window blew out when a vicious wave smashed into it. Another wave struck the forward door, ripping out the center lock and flooding into the well. Hammer and nails closed the hole and saved the tug from a watery grave. Desperately the tug struggled on, rolling and plunging in the steep seas until she finally slid between the rock piers at Eagle Harbor." "It had been a very near thing, and it was a story that wouldn't be told for a very long time." When Olsen finally told his story to author Frederick Stonehouse, it cemented the Hudson's reputation as one of the most notorious ghost ships of Lake Superior. (See the book Haunted Lakes by Frederick Stonehouse, Lake Superior Port Cities Inc., Duluth, Minn. 1997, pages 85 to 89.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us next time for more UFO news from around the planet, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1999 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. http://ufoinfo.com/roundup
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: The Challenge From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:43:34 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:25:25 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: The Challenge Hi John >If it turns out that they _don't_ have >anything of value in stock then that fact should also be known. I'll be the first to say that I don't have anything of value in stock. :( >John Velez, Tired abductee activist When you need a hot cup of tea and a sympathetic ear give me a shout John :) -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:58:16 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:29:09 -0400 Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >From: James Bouck <JGBOUCK@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:25:09 EDT >Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:05:56 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >>Subject: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >>No evidence exists that Earth has been visited by aliens, said >>Jacqueline Mitton of the Royal Astronomical Society, above, who >>appeared with an inflatable alien. She believes that obsession >>with UFOs has delayed legitimate research into the possibility >>of intelligent life elsewhere. "There is very clear public >>support for such research," Dr Mitton said, "but it is not >>supported by governments, who have been frightened off. There >>probably is, was or will be life elsewhere in the universe, but >>it could be so scattered in time and space that we won't >>intersect with it. We could be visited by alien intelligences. >>We just don't have any evidence." >Sounds like just a bunch of excuses to me. If a scientist was >really convinced that there was other life elsewhere you would >think that they would exhaust all avenues to prove it one way or >the other. Instead they are just afraid of losing grants and >won't stand up to their real convictions. >Jim Bouck >NYMUFON-ASD Hi, Just a quick note here as I am deluged with deadlines and can only offer a rapid reply (apologies to anyone waiting a response - bear with me a few days). I wanted to advise that I did a radio programme in Sheffield with Dr Mitton today. She was charming, well informed and objective. The press stories have not done her justice. I believe she will be a very useful ally to British Ufology. Yes, she is a sceptic but she is far from a debunker, has read the evidence, understands it better than many ufologists I know and is someone worth keeping on side. She tells me she is free of research committments and is thus willing to take the big risk she perceives it to be to her career to talk about UFOs in public. Its a start and I think we should cultivate rather than pooh pooh this scientist. More later. Best wishes, Jenny Randles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:06:47 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:29:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:48:45 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas >>>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:53:35 EDT >>>Subject: Five Really Stupid Ideas >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Five Really Stupid Ideas >>>by J. Jaime Gesundt, Ph.D.'s >James, Sean, Errol, List et Al.... Sorry it took so long to respond to your respone to my response of the... forget it, anyway... > >>>1) Life exists elsewhere in the Universe so we should look for >>it by searching the radio spectrum for their ham operators, >>every sentient and progressive culture has them you know. > >Major Tom to Ground control - David Bowie >Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft - Klaatu >And what was Karen Carpenters song on the same wavelength? "When the Moon Comes Over the Mountain..." I think. >What I am trying to say is _we_ have been asking them to call us >Jim. _We've_ been aksing _THEM_? How? When? Where? We've been waiting to hear THEIR transmissions, assuming some higher culture of beings out there would actually be exactly at our level so that we could contact each other. I mean, it's tough enough trying to find ANY culture, let alone one just right at where we are! Higher cultures? Oh, I don't really believe, deep down, that they continue to use the same portions of the spectrum we do. Whadda yous think? Wouldn't that be nice, though? I don't think so. Personally, and I mean _personally_ I would wish to seek the company of either a lessor culture (so I could sell 'em stuff they really didn't need like beads and Gripple) - OR - I would seek the company of a much higher culture so that we could rape the crappola out of their technology in order to screw many more of our neighbors right here on earth. Like, say, the USA gets a signal from Mongo and we develop really neat weapons and stuff. First, we try them out on our own people, just to make sure the stuff works, then we dump on all our enemies, which is to say, the rest of the world. See? Oh and please note, it does not have to be the USA, it could be Russia, China, The Kingdom of Cookoo, whatever. Hmmm... Now do you still wonder why those much smarter than us don't want us to know they are really there? Huh? Sheesh! I gotta tell you people EVERYTHING? >>2) Life exists elsewhere in the Universe but we should not look >>for it here, since the idea that we may have been visited by >>it is just so stupid since everyone knows they are trying to >>call us on the radio. All's we gotta do is find the right >>frequency. >But if we have been visited???? Nope. It was all swamp gas. We learned that in Klass. >>3) People who believe they've been abducted by that other life >>must be crazy because of Really Stupid Idea number 2 >Hmmm, but.... what about crazy idea number six? Crazy idea number six was explained to the Pope. He was so shocked at hearing it that he fainted dead away. That's why he looks so, so, I dunno, so drawn! >>4) People who believe they've been abducted by that other life >>must have been because of RSI number 1.... uh, but only if >> RSI number 2 is a RSI. Otherwise, RSI number 4 is not a RSI. >So if two equals one, and four equals zero then three equals ? Answers >on a postcard..... Make it a QSL card. You can find me on 80 CW most nights when the moon is in the seventh house, or the sunspots are super. >>5) Sal Mineo was Jewish. >Who the hell was Sal Mineo? Errol, I keep on telling you, get more old farts on this list, man. Too few of your people even knew Sal! Pulease? >>Thank you for your attention in these matters. >Anything that you bring to my attention James will be >attended. <g> I thank you from the bottom..... of my heart. Which is attempting to continue to beat in spite of that bat rastard Kevin blowing harder than Phil on a roll right outside my long wire, 80 meter dipoles and that multi-element sucker I put up when I bought this joint. J. Jaime Gesundt, Ph.D.'s too numerous to mention It's a curse!>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:10:52 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:54:42 -0400 Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >From: James Bouck <JGBOUCK@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:25:09 EDT >Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >To: updates@globalserve.net <snip> >>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:05:56 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >>Subject: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' <snip> >>No evidence exists that Earth has been visited by aliens, said >>Jacqueline Mitton of the Royal Astronomical Society, above, who >>appeared with an inflatable alien. She believes that obsession >>with UFOs has delayed legitimate research into the possibility >>of intelligent life elsewhere. "There is very clear public >>support for such research," Dr Mitton said, "but it is not >>supported by governments, who have been frightened off. There >>probably is, was or will be life elsewhere in the universe, but >>it could be so scattered in time and space that we won't >>intersect with it. We could be visited by alien intelligences. >>We just don't have any evidence." > Sounds like just a bunch of excuses to me. If a scientist was > really convinced that there was other life elsewhere you would > think that they would exhaust all avenues to prove it one way or > the other. Instead they are just afraid of losing grants and > won't stand up to their real convictions. > Jim Bouck > NYMUFON-ASD Hi everyone. To me the last two sentences in the article quoted above says it all. To her credit, Dr. Mitton does not rule out the possibility of UFOs being alien spacecraft visiting the Earth when she says "We _could_ be visited..." but goes on to say "WE just don't have ANY evidence." Unless Dr. Mitton is omniscient, how could she utter the last sentence in light of all the official UFO documents, huge and continuing number of high quality UFO reports and even many scientific papers and studies. Isn't all this evidence? In my opinion, if the worldwide UFO phenomena never existed, then there would be much less public support and government funding for activities such as SETI, including basic astronomy research and even space exploration. Nick Balaskas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:14:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:51:39 -0400 Subject: Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:19:07 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >Subject: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs >A debunkers' guide to UFOs was yesterday issued by a leading >astronomer who believes people have been fooling themselves over >sightings of alien spaceships for 50 years. 50 years my -- uh, eye! Thousands of years before Christ, and at all periods in between! Ample multiple eyewitness accounts exist at every point in time. When will these learned popinjays learn to see a smoking gun! >It all began in 1947 with a flock of geese glinting in the sun, >said Dr Jacqueline Mitton from the Royal Astronomical Society. I too have squinted my eyes akimbo and suckered a silk purse from a sows ear. I also gave up on wishful thinking -- a task this august Dr. Mitton should at least attempt. She is not alone in her universe, and the thought is a horror for her. Suck it up, Doc! >American pilot Kenneth Arnold, puzzled when he saw the geese >from his private plane, described them as flying "like a saucer >would if you skipped it across the water". Thus the term "flying >saucers" was born. Stillborn rather -- a ufological abortion of denial and covetousness. When has this ufological fetus ever drawn more than a stuttering breath. If alive at all it is *court-jester* when it should be, perhaps, *high priest*! >Since then interest in UFOs had grown to become a worldwide >obsession, said Dr Mitton. But she is convinced every sighting >can be explained by natural or man-made phenomena. Yeah -- it's an absolute _bitch_ when you look up into the sky and SEE the damn things, but there you have it. As an aviator of some note I've seen "man-made phenomena" that would put a kink in her short and curlies, and _still_ know it was man-made phenomena. She should have seen what I have seen dancing in the belt of Orion on a cool winter Alabama night... something's out there, dammit! >Speaking yesterday at the British Association Festival of >Science at Sheffield University, she said so many people now >believed in UFOs that respectable scientists were afraid to get >involved in debunking them. It was time for real scientists to >confront "pseudo science", she argued. Oh yes, by all means -- they can start with the stuff that John Velez has been trying to get looked at for oh, lo these many years. Moreover, I think in a studied debate with Stanton Friedman she would learn the error of her arrogant and narrow bandwidth ways. She might even shift her focus on what "pseudo science" really is. Whatever it is -- it is a science of cross purposed denial, convenient focus, and it feeds at a trough! Real Scientists! Ha! <derisive snort> >"I don't think there is a single scrap of evidence that we have >been visited by aliens," said Dr Mitton, the Royal Astronomical >Society's Press officer. ... and? This proves exactly -- what? Let's get Tesla's papers released to the public first. I think there is likely _plenty_ of evidence. Getting at it, passed the levels of classification and the conveniently ubiquitous national security issues, is another matter. I call for a debate! Let her defend her assertions in discussion. Lehmberg@snowhill.com -- Visit a Virtual Art Gallery in Cyberspace! Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more. Consider Matter, Mind & Movement. See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration. Take a ride in the Teleporter and check the inexplicable. EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL. http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ **<Updated 18 September>** http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- Send your checks and money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at: 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: The Challenge From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:12:04 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 02:20:00 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: The Challenge >Hello All, >Some of you that have been following UpDates (for longer than >many of us care to remember) are aware that I have been >struggling to get an investigation by independent experts of any >'physical material' (i.e.; evidence of foreign objects in the >bodies of the abductees, the 'writing' samples that some >investigators have gathered, unusual or unexplained marks and >scars etc.) I have even repeatedly offered myself up to these >"experts" (to no avail) as well. >To date, nothing has happened. We would all be a lot closer to >finding the answers to some important questions if the physical >material is finally analysed. A huge part of the difficulty in >accomplishing it has to do with funding and gathering the >material from those that have so painstakingly collected it over >the years. <snip> >Enough talk. Let's demand a study and, that the authors and >investigators that we have supported with our dollars over the >years, contribute what data/material they can to the effort. >There are many ways to do it, but FUFOR seems like a good choice >as a central coordinator for such a study and one that many >would trust and have some confidence in. >Action, action, we want action! Hi everyone. I understand and share John Velez's frustrations. For about half a century there have been calls for an end to government UFO secrecy while we have totally ignored the bigger but unintentional coverup by UFO researchers themselves. By keeping certain important UFO incidents and even actual physical evidence for UFOs to themselves, we have become part of the coverup. Of course, our reasons may be understandable for doing so, such as a promise to keep something confidential or even simply because we do not have the time, expertise or financial resources to pursue what we know or possess by ourselves. Let us pick a date (John Velez's birthday?) and challenge every UFO researcher and persons with knowledge of or interest in UFOs to come forward and share what they know or possess. Nearly all of us have an important UFO story or UFO related fact that remains untold. If you cannot share it without revealing your sources, fine, but let us have it. It will make following UFO UpDates even more interesting. Nick Balaskas P.S. If John's birthday has just passed, then let us pick the end of October (Halloween) when our UFO secrets come out.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 17 Virtual Art Gallery From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:37:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 02:30:18 -0400 Subject: Virtual Art Gallery Honored List; Visit my "Gallery of Odd Art" in Cyberspace: http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/dream.html It is _very_ detailed, filled eye and mind candy, and just what the twitch doctor wouldn't order! This is said _forgetting_ the tribute to ebk on its very grounds. <g>. Lehmberg@snowhill.com -- Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more. Consider Matter, Mind & Movement. See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration. Take a ride in the Teleporter. Explore "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL. http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ **Updated 11 September>** http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html John Ford Restoration Fund -- Send your checks and money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got their's) at: 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: Panspermia From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:35:26 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 02:51:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Panspermia >From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Panspermia >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:48:35 -0500 >>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:50:58 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Panspermia >>>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:35:00 >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >>>Subject: Panspermia >><snip> >>>Panspermia >>>The idea that life originated elsewhere and drifted to Earth is >>>an old one, but there's a new idea how it got here. > >><snip> >>Dr. Valtonen showed from studies he and others have done that it >>is possible for life bearing asteroids and comets from other >>solar systems to make their way to Earth. >I'm never quite sure what to make of the panspermia idea, and >I've never understood its popularity. If the question of rise >of life on this planet were totally unanswerable within >conventional scientific discourse, then I would agree that the >search for some sort of outside agency would be a logical step. >But the point is that there are some fairly reliable scientific >models that account for the appearence of lfe on earth with >reference only to 'locally available' materials and conditions. >I'm not even sure the panspermia theory is good science--even if >dormant life is found in comets or asteroids, the notion that >such organisms were responsible for the appearence of life on >earth is essentially untestable. >Brian Hi Brian. Many scientists, including biologists here where I work, will tell you that we really do not know how life first appeared on the Earth. They will also honestly admit that even with the present age of the universe, up from hundreds of millions of years at the time of Darwin a century ago to tens of billions of years now, there is still simply not enough time for life to have evolved to produce what we have at present. Now if there are billions of other Earths out there, well maybe at least one of them got an earlier and faster start to life than the rest. Then tens of billions of years may be enough time for life to have evolved on Earth as it exists now, assuming life from other worlds could somehow get from there to here. You are right that a lot of these theories such as panspermia are essentially untestable and not even good science but to some scientists, anything seems to be more acceptable than what our ancestors believed. Nevertheless, there is a growing number of scientists that consider the panspermia theory to have some merits. One big problem is that even with many large impacts or explosions on other worlds which would eject life bearing rocks into space towards other solar systems, the projected times for the E.T. life to reach Earth (assuming it makes it to the ground without burning up totally in our atmosphere) is calculated to be in the billions of years. Now if UFOs are in fact spacecraft piloted by intelligent beings from other worlds, their landings could contaminate (intentionally or accidently) the entire universe with life in just thousands of years. Recall that Apollo 12 astronauts brought back from the Moon parts of the unmanned Surveyor lander where organisms from the Earth had survived. This December yet another unmanned lander will visit Mars and other spacecarft from Earth are currently heading towards other worlds, including out of our solar system - and our spacefaring age has only just started. For some reason scientists who support the panspermia theory and who are even sympathetic to the notion that E.T. beings exists, refuse to include the "UFO factor" into their calculations. To me, this "UFO factor" would be a big step forward explaining how we and other advanced life forms on Earth got here. Nick Balaskas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:40:04 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 03:12:45 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:53:52 EDT >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net >Before Bond and the "entire issue" fade away perhaps it might be >useful in deciding credibility by glancing at just who Randle >and Johnson are. >KRandle, in his latest posting, invites UPDATES Listees to check >out his web site to learn the truth! In doing so one can be >impressed that KRandle proudly points to his recently obtained >"Ph.D. degree in Psychology," obtained at California Coast >University .. a "university" that has NO campus and NO library >and NO resident faculty .. and not even a football team! In its >online "mission" statement CCU boasts that degree "programs can >be completed through independent, self-paced instruction which >does not require attendance at any specific location, either on >or off-campus." >Dr. Johnson has been since 1960 a board certified and state >licensed clinical psychologist in private practice in >California. He also is retired after 50 years as a United >Methodist Church minister. >KRandle also boasts that he is pursuing another master's degree >in military science at American Military University, another >"distance learning" institution that hasn't bothered yet to >establish a campus or resident faculty. He proudly proclaims >that he was retired as an intelligence officer in the grade of >captain. >Johnson's military service spanned 43 years with active duty >during three wars. After graduation as class leader of more than >500 students at the US Army Command and General Staff College at >Fort Leavenworth, KS he served as a distinguished consulting >faculty member there. He also attended the Air War College. He >was for 11 years an instructor and department director of the >Psychological Operations Officers School at Fort Bragg, NC. He >had four Pentagon tours in the Special Operations Division, >Department of the Army and the Joint Staff and was a consultant >in psycho-political strategy to the National Security Council at >the White House. He is retired from >the US Army in the grade of colonel. It is easy to see how ill/uninformed Bond is about the current state of distance learning/internet/college courses. Readers of this email should point their web browser to: http://www.onlinelearning.net/OnlineLearningExplained/ where they will find UCLA offering on line courses to name but 1 of many universities that are going on line. They also brag about no classrooms, no travel, no being late etc etc. Right now it is possible in the western US to get numerous degrees from fully accredited schools and colleges through distance learning via the Internet. Check out this link at Yahoo for a list of many across the US colleges that are: http://dir.yahoo.com/Education/Distance_Learning/Colleges_and_Universiti es/ offering distance learning. Recently the Western Governors University (sponsored by the Western Governors) was offering 30 or 40 degrees, not to mention masters and doctorate programs.. What the student does is take his online courses from whatever universitys are offering them , then pick the school he or she wants their diploma to be from. In the western US by 2004, it will be expected that most kids leaving high school will have already got much, if not all of their required college classes done with, so they will only need to go to two years or so of classes then have a Bachelors degree. Their was a news item out of Idaho that said by 2002 it will be a requirement for many idaho colleges that all students WILL have a laptop computer that is network/modem capable and using the current office suite and programs that the school requires. My older sis-in-law started class in August and on the first day had a number of assignments that could only be turned in via email. The instructor would not accept a paper copy. Students have told me that at some university classes they have NEVER seen their instructor in person. They get the lectures on video tape in a class room, and submit the assignments via email. While Bond may sneer at distance learning, he needs to come to grips with the fact that university learning in a classroom setting is/will become obsolete in the next few years. In other words road kill on the information super highway. As to Randle and Johnson, I know that Johnson is ill informed on the current state of learning and the Internet and he is also on tape telling one story about Roswell which was taped with his permission and transcribed, and is now telling a different one. Cheers Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:24:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 03:43:16 -0400 Subject: Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:19:07 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >Subject: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs >Source: Newcastle Chronicle & Journal, September 15. >Stig *** >UFOs - tell that to the birds * >A debunkers' guide to UFOs was yesterday issued by a leading >astronomer who believes people have been fooling themselves over >sightings of alien spaceships for 50 years.> >It all began in 1947 with a flock of geese glinting in the sun, >said Dr Jacqueline Mitton from the Royal Astronomical Society. >American pilot Kenneth Arnold, puzzled when he saw the geese >from his private plane, described them as flying "like a saucer >would if you skipped it across the water". Thus the term "flying >saucers" was born.> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHA SHOWS WHAT SHE KNOWS!!! Doesn't she realize she has it all wrong? IT WAS PELICANS, YOU DUMMY! (or was it a meteor..... hmmmmm) >Since then interest in UFOs had grown to become a worldwide >obsession, said Dr Mitton. But she is convinced every sighting >can be explained by natural or man-made phenomena. Good for her. Perhaps she would be wlling to publish a few sample explanations (other than geese) >Speaking yesterday at the British Association Festival of >Science at Sheffield University, she said so many people now >believed in UFOs that respectable scientists were afraid to get >involved in debunking them. It was time for real scientists to >confront "pseudo science", she argued. Hear, HEar!. BRuing 'em on. >"I don't think there is a single scrap of evidence that we have >been visited by aliens," said Dr Mitton, the Royal Astronomical >Society's Press officer. I don't think there's a scrap of evidence that she knows what she is talking about/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: The Challenge From: Bill Weber <koran@cchat.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:59:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 04:03:11 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: The Challenge <snip> >I have even repeatedly offered myself up to these >"experts" (to no avail) as well. >To date, nothing has happened. Here's a prediction. John's continued courageous offers to be a public test animal will be ignored again. Why? >It's a shame that a nobody jamoke like me is the only one >actively calling for a study of this material. It's an even >bigger shame that those who profit most from our reports (UFO >authors, investigators, and researchers) have not yet made any >effort among themselves to have an independent analysis of their >findings/collected material performed and published. You're no fool, John, but I agree, it's a shame you seem to be alone in this. >Everyone should take the time to write to Budd Hopkins, David >Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, John Carpenter et al and -ask >them- to collectively contribute any materials they may be in >possession of that may help to advance what little is known >about UFO abductions. If it turns out that they _don't_ have >anything of value in stock then that fact should also be known. I agree. It's high time they get these private files out on the table for everyone to look at - like in any other field of research. This doesn't mean that witness anonymity has to be ignored. The "facts" can be presented without subjecting any individual to public ridicule. No matter the outcome or interpretation, all the evidence should be public access. You'd think these guys, more than anyone, would _want_ that to happen. You'd think they'd _want_ as many perspectives on their private bits of evidence and witness testimony as there are UFO researchers. I'm writing my letter, John. Take care. Best, Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:15:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 04:21:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:45:45 -0500 >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no> >>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:07:41 +0200 ><snip> >>* These people possibly want some attention from the media, >>especially they might be enjoying the attention from the UFO >>media's writing. >Interesting points, Asgeir. >One point I might add is one that is frequently overlooked. The >fact that these mutilated animals are found at all is >significant. Why take a cow or some other animal - including >humans, mutilate them then return them back where they will be >found? >We must consider possible motivations of the Mutilator or >Mutilators that return the mutilated creature and/or leave it >where it will be found. One may speculate that: 1)the Mutilator >simply doesn't care if the remains are found, 2)the Mutilator >has a disposal problem, 3)the animal was mutilated on the spot, >or 4) the Mutilator _wants_ the corpse found. >We must consider the possibility that animal mutilations may be >part of some psychological program intended to impact human >belief systems in certain ways or as part of some kind of >psychological experiment. We must also consider the possibility >that animal mutilations - the parts excised, procedures used, >positions in which the animals are found, etc. - may have _no_ >meaning whatsoever (same for crop circles) aside from their >psychological effects on human paradigms. >One important pattern in all mutilations, speculations aside, is >the very presence of a corpse as opposed to no corpse at all. We must also consider that in some cases; - There _are_ loonies out there. Very sick ones at that. Maybe they bought scalpels..... - Farmers can claim off their insurance if it's 'death by unknown causes'. Picked this up off an insurance colleague. - Most of this seems to be happening in the USA and is pushed by a small group of researchers who are _still_ been unable to prove that extra-terrestrials are responsible. They are making modern Ufology more like a sick snuff movie...not a credible research effort. Has a vet ever said that in his/her view "aliens" are responsible for 'mutilations' and if so why is he/she still practicing? That should get people going..... hopefully not 'mooing'. TM. ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:19:44 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 04:34:30 -0400 Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:58:16 +0100 >>From: James Bouck <JGBOUCK@aol.com> >>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:25:09 EDT >>Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:05:56 >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >>>Subject: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >>>No evidence exists that Earth has been visited by aliens, said >>>Jacqueline Mitton of the Royal Astronomical Society, above, who >>>appeared with an inflatable alien. She believes that obsession >>>with UFOs has delayed legitimate research into the possibility >>>of intelligent life elsewhere. "There is very clear public >>>support for such research," Dr Mitton said, "but it is not >>>supported by governments, who have been frightened off. There >>>probably is, was or will be life elsewhere in the universe, but >>>it could be so scattered in time and space that we won't >>>intersect with it. We could be visited by alien intelligences. >>>We just don't have any evidence." >>Sounds like just a bunch of excuses to me. If a scientist was >>really convinced that there was other life elsewhere you would >>think that they would exhaust all avenues to prove it one way or >>the other. Instead they are just afraid of losing grants and >>won't stand up to their real convictions. >>Jim Bouck >>NYMUFON-ASD >Hi, >Just a quick note here as I am deluged with deadlines and can >only offer a rapid reply (apologies to anyone waiting a response >- bear with me a few days). >I wanted to advise that I did a radio programme in Sheffield >with Dr Mitton today. She was charming, well informed and >objective. The press stories have not done her justice. I >believe she will be a very useful ally to British Ufology. Yes, >she is a sceptic but she is far from a debunker, has read the >evidence, understands it better than many ufologists I know and >is someone worth keeping on side. She tells me she is free of >research committments and is thus willing to take the big risk >she perceives it to be to her career to talk about UFOs in >public. Its a start and I think we should cultivate rather than >pooh pooh this scientist. >More later. >Best wishes, >Jenny Randles I agree. Take no notice of the mass media. _It_ is responsible for many of the wild claims and stories reportedly made in relation to UFO research. I saw Dr. Mitton on TV the other day and she wiped the floor with Russ Callaghan of UFO Magazine (UK) and seemed to be a particularly intelligent advocate for 'scientific' Ufology. No doubt the fact that she's a woman will raise the hackles of the middle-aged bloke squad within Ufology! Lynda Matthews.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 17 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 21 From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:51:23 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:52:35 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 21 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 4, Number 21 September 16, 1999 Editor: Joseph Trainor ALIEN CAPTURED IN JORDAN? "An unidentified creature which terrorized the people and poultry of the northern Jordanian town of Mafraq was captured Sunday night," July 25, 1999. "'Townsfolk first sighted the small, cat-like animal a month ago (June 1999) but then it started appearing on a nightly basis, devouring dozens of hens and pigeons,' said an official from the Mafraq governorate." "The small-headed creature with disproportionately large eyes, teeth and tail was hunted down after townsfolk lodged complaints that the animal was prowling Mafraq's residential quarters by night." "The official speculated that the animal could have been drawn to Mafraq, which lies on the edge of the (Hauran) desert 100 kilometres (60 miles) north of Amman," the capital of Jordan, "bythis year's drought. The animal, nicknamed Al-Massara, has been handed to local vets (veterinarians--J.T.) to determine its species, but it was not known if it was the only such creature at large in the town." (See the National Post of Toronto for July 27, 1999, "Police end unidentified creature's reign of terror." See also UFO Newsclipping Service for August 1999. Many thanks to Lou Farish for this news story.) (Editor's Comment: After I received this report, I did a little background research and came up with three interesting facts, which may or may not have anything to do with Al-Massara. (1) The airport just north of al-Mafraq is the headquarters of a jet interceptor wing of the Royal Jordanian Air Force. The wing flies French-built Mirage 2000 fighters. (2) Al-Mafraq contains the headquarters of the 2nd Mechanized Division of the Jordan Arab Army, which consists of two mechanized infantry brigades and a tank brigade. (3) About 20 kilometers (12 miles) east of al-Mafraq, across the Wadi az-Zatari, lie the ruins of Umm al-Jimal, a mysterious pre- Canaanite city with buildings made of black basalt. The ruined city was first found by the Romans in 175 A.D. The inhabitants fled after a catastrophic earthquake in 747 A.D., and it became a ghost town after that. More importantly, where is Al-Massara? Probably in Camp Condon...in the same Quonset hut with the Varginha Seven.) TRIANGULAR UFO SEEN AGAIN IN ISRAEL On Friday, August 27, 1999, Israeli ufologist David Ronen spotted a large triangular UFO cruising over Tel Aviv. Rushing to the telephone, Ronen called fellow ufologist Gil Bar, 16, and told him, "The craft is heading for Rishon Letzion. Get your camera!" Grabbing his videocamera, Bar hurried to the rooftop of his home, just in time to see the craft passing overhead. Instantly he began shooting and got two minutes of video before the camera's battery failed. According to Barry Chamish, the triangular UFO was "identical to the one seen by Adrian Zvir over Rishon Letzion in October 1998." (Many thanks to Barry Chamish for letting UFO Roundup quote from his report.) BRITISH TOURISTS SPOT UFO IN PORTUGAL On Monday, August 30, 1999, at 10 p.m., Andrew M., his wife, and two fellow tourists from UK "were returning to our villa near Carvoeiro in the Portuguese Algarve" region "when all four adult occupants saw a red/gold light in the sky. I guess at around 15,000 to 20,000 feet, travelling from the west toward the southern coast of Spain." (Across the Golfo de Cadiz in the general direction of Palos de la Frontera--J.T.) "Its movements were erratic," Andrew reported, "First of all slow, then extremely fast, certainly not in the smooth manner of a jet. It was hard to tell the shape, but the light was a very regular glow, and I would guess that in daylight it would be disc-shaped." "Several other cars seemed to stop and stare. But instead of stopping, we rushed back to the villa for the videocamera, by which time it was so far away I am certain it would not have shown up on film." The following day, Tuesday, August 31, 1999, Andrew and his wife "saw a military-type plane fly past very low but in the opposite direction," i.e. from east to west. Carvoeiro is about 150 kilometers (90 miles) southeast of Lisboa, Portugal's national capital. (Muito obrigado a John Hayes por eso caso.) UFOs SIGHTED OVER LOUGH NEAGH IN ULSTER At 11 p.m. on Wednesday, August 15, 1999, telephones at the Armagh Planetarium and police stations in Northern Ireland, as residents reported UFOs and strange phenomena over nearby Lough (Lake) Neagh. According to Miles Johnston, the flap continued for five straight days, ending on Monday, August 22, 1999 at 4 a.m. Each UFO overflight began at 11 p.m. each night and ended at 4 o'clock the following morning. "Sightings included large rings of light, with inner rings, over a several-hundred-square- mile area," plus "groups of flying discs flying in formation." Witnesses also reported seeing "a U.S. Air Force AWACS plane accompanied by two red triangular aircraft," Johnston added, "They flew over Northern Ireland at only 4,000 feet." Strangest of all were the reports of "rays of black light" streaming down from the night sky and "some illuminations identical to the Aurora Borealis but due south" of Lough Neagh. Armagh is 42 miles (70 kilometers) southwest of Belfast. (Many thanks to Miles Johnston for this report.) (Editor's Comment: Black rays streaming down from space!? Even for mystical Ireland, that's weird!) UFO SEEN BY FIVE PEOPLE NEAR BRIGHTON, IOWA On Sunday, September 5, 1999, at 8:54 p.m., five people "observed a strange bright light in the eastern sky" while at a privately-owned pond 20 miles (32 kilometers) northwest of Brighton, Iowa (population 684.) According to the witnesses, the UFO "moved both horizontally and vertically with no apparent pattern. The light also appeared and disappeared sporadically...The light that was observed was a very bright white light." The witnesses observed the UFO for 20 minutes at first. During this time, it "disappeared eight times in 20 minutes before disappearing completely...It moved only a matter of 20 to 25 degrees from the horizon and about 10 to 15 degrees to the south-southeast before it suddenly disappeared." A few minutes later, the UFO returned, "and the light was observed for 15 minutes before it vanished again." Brighton is on Iowa Highway 1 approximately 167 miles (267 kilometers) southeast of Des Moines. (Many thanks to John E.L. Tenney for this report.) CYLINDRICAL SILVER UFO SEEN IN TENNESSEE On Tuesday, September 7, 1999, at 10:15 p.m., a white 37-year-old businessman was driving home through a newly-built neighborhood just north of Gallatin, Tennessee (population 18,794) when he spotted "a silver-colored object" in the sky. "I was driving to my new home in a new subdivision, when I spotted an object flying slowly about a quarter-mile (0.4 kilometers) away," he reported, "I looked at it again and noticed that it was not casting a reflection. I was a bright metallic silver object, unlike any aircraft that I have ever seen. The object was moving very slowly, almost hovering over a wooded area" on the north side of Gallatin. "I turned off my car and got out to see if I could hear anything and make sure it wasn't a reflection in the window of my car. It was there, plain to see. It was cylindrical in shape and moving ever so slowly. The object had absolutely no sound. Within ten seconds, the object just disappeared from my sight." Gallatin is on Tennessee Highways 174 and 25 about 24 miles (38 kilometers) northeast of Nashville, the state capital. (Many thanks to Kenneth Young of Cincinnati UFO Research for this report.) BRIGHT UFO SPOTTED IN SANTA ANA, CALIFORNIA On Thursday, September 9, 1999, at 5:40 a.m., a man heading for work "saw a strange bright light in the sky" over Santa Ana, California (population 293,742), a suburb of Los Angeles. "He didn't know if it was a satellite or what," John B. reported, "He called me over to look. At first I didn't see it. But then I did. It was brighter than any star. It was big, too." John said they were near the intersection of Fairview and Segerstrom in Santa Ana when they saw the UFO. Santa Ana is south of the Garden Grove Freeway, about 28 miles (44 kilometers) southeast of Los Angeles City Hall. (Many thanks to John B. for this report.) STRANGE BRIGHT LIGHTS SEEN BY DOZENS NEAR FORT MYERS, FLORIDA "Bright lights described by some as very colorful and by others as very large had southwest Florida's earliest risers scratching their heads around 4:30 a.m. Tuesday," September 7, 1999, "and wondering whether aliens were landing." "Betty Scofield was having her morning coffee on her front porch in Cape Coral (population 74,991) as bright lights hovered in the sky. Scofield said she believed the lights were two planes coming in for a landing at Southwest Florida International Airport but said she was a little worried because both lights were low on the horizon." "It wasn't until Scofield arrived at work in the communications department of the Lee County Sheriff's Office that the reality--or lack of it--set in." The planes, if that's what they were, were not making any noise. 'I went, uh-oh,' Scofield said, 'I never thought about UFOs before.'" "People all down the Gulf (of Mexico) coast of Florida, and as far inland as Orlando, were thinking about UFOs, too, said George Diller, a spokesman for Kennedy Space Center in Cape Canaveral." "The chance that aliens were involved? 'None,' Diller said. Instead, he said the lights were caused by space junk, from a spent stage of a Russian rocket coming down over the Gulf of Mexico. The rocket was used to launch a communications satellite." "Diller said the light show was so bright because the objects were illuminated by the sun's light from the other side of the world." "Spectacular, but also frightening, said Cathy Ingrim, who saw the lights from the pier at Fort Myers Beach. The Fort Myers resident and another woman were fishing from the pier at Fort Myers Beach when sometime between 4:30 and 5 a.m. colored bright lights and smoke appeared very low on the horizon." "'We were just dumbfounded the whole time,' Ingrim said. 'It was almost like a huge mass of shooting stars, balls of fire. It was like green, red and yellow. There was light smoke.'" Fort Myers (population 45,206) is on Florida Highway 41 about 152 miles (243 kilometers) west of Miami. (See the Fort Myers, Fla. News Press for September 7, 1999, story by Eileen Kelley. Many thanks to Linda Jacobson for forwarding this newspaper article.) MORE CROP CIRCLES APPEAR IN CANADA On Thursday, September 2, 1999, farmer Lyle Ami was combining his field near Conquest, Saskatchewan, Canada (population 85) when he encountered two crop circles. According to Paul Anderson of Circles Phenomenon Research-Canada, one crop circle was 36 feet (10.9 meters) in diameter, while the other was 30 feet (9.09 meters) in diameter. "Both have an identical 'cross' feature attached," Paul reported, "Both were pointing to the southeast." The formation was found four miles (6 kilometers) south of Conquest. In 1998, Conquest was the site of another highly- publicized crop circle incident. The 1998 circles also had a cross attached and were aligned to the southeast. Conquest is just north of Provincial Highway 7, about 50 miles (80 kilometers) southwest of Saskatoon. In eastern Canada, a farmer named Bernard Handrahan reported finding two small crop circles on his land on Prince Edward Island. The circles were found in mid-August, and Handrahan described them as "perfectly circular with extended centres." The circles measured 18 feet (5.4 meters) and 12 feet (3.6 meters) in diameter. The circles were found in a blueberry field at Christopher Cross, near Tignish, P.E.I., which is located on the island's North Cape about 78 miles (125 kilometers) northwest of Charlottetown. (See the Charlottetown, P.E.I. Guardian for August 28, 1999. Many thanks to Paul Anderson of CPR-Canada for this report.) Y2K: U.S., RUSSIAN OFFICERS TO OBSERVE MISSILE LAUNCH DATA ON NEW YEAR'S EVE "Russia has accepted an offer to place its military officers at a joint monitoring center in Colorado to observe U.S. missile warning data during the 2000 transition. Defense Secretary William Cohen is to sign the agreement Monday," September 13, 1999, "in Moscow." "The Pentagon said Friday that Cohen also will discuss arms control with his Russian counterpart, Gen. Igor Sergeyev. The visit is designed to put U.S.-Russian military relations back on track after Moscow severed most contacts last spring in protest of the U.S.-led NATO bombing of Yugoslavia." "Last fall, U.S. and Russian military experts had begun discussing the idea of a joint station for monitoring U.S. missile warning data, but progress was halted when the war with Yugoslavia started in March." "A senior Pentagon official said Friday," September 10, 1999, "that Moscow indicated in August that it would accept the offer. The facility will be called the Y2K Center for Strategic Stability and will be based at Peterson Air Force Base, Colorado." "The center is to begin operating 24 hours a day with Russian and U.S. monitoring teams in December. It will be terminated in January. The Russians will have 10 to 20 officers there." "The center's purpose is to provide reassurance to the Russians on potemtial accidental missile launches--either by the United States or other countries--resulting from Y2K computer glitches. U.S. officals have said they don't anticipate Y2K problems with either U.S. or Russian missile systems. It also would provide reassurance in case a computer glitch affected Russia's radar system." "No one thinks 'we're teetering on the edge of a potential false launch,' the U.S. official said. However, if there were a problem, both sides feel it would be useful to have officers in direct contact with each other." (See the Minneapolis, Minn. Star-Tribune for September 11, 1999, page A4, "Russians to join U.S. officers at missile center for Y2K transition.") from the UFO Files... 1948: STRANGE CRUISE OF THE HUDSON Ninety-eight years ago, on September 16, 1901, the steamer Hudson lost her steering engine and foundered in Lake Superior off upper Michigan's Keweenaw peninsula. All 24 members of the crew drowned when this 320-foot steamship, with its distinctive two black smokestacks aft, plunged to the bottom. Trouble is, the Hudson won't stay in her watery grave. On September 16, 1948, a tugboat fisherman we'll call "Gary Olsen" was dropping his gill nets in Lake Superior northwest of Eagle Harbor, Michigan, near the top of the Keweenaw, when he encountered a strange, thick fog. "Without warning it wasn't fog any more but the tall sides of a vessel directly off the bow. Throwing the wheel hard over, the captain barely swung the tug clear of the stranger.. The other vessel wasn't moving but drifting dead with the swell." Olsen and his mate were amazed to see a ship "about 300 feet long and she had the smallest pilothouse he had ever seen on a freighter. The twin stacks were unusual, too. One of them was also knocked over, and the other looked none too steady...The steamer's decks, like her sides, were covered with a slimy brown coating. Great rust bubbles were everywhere." When the silent ship refused to answer his hails, Gary rowed over there in his gig and climbed onto the foredeck.. "Climbing the companionway, he paused for a second at the closed pilothouse door. Opening the door, he found two men, or what once were men, staring straight at him. One, the farthest away, held the wheel fast in his bony hands. The other, evidently the captain, judging from his short peaked cap, stood closest to him. To the tug man, both looked like death warmed over. Thin and gaunt in stature, their ragged clothes hung loose over emaciated limbs. Their faces were white and chalky with leathery skin drawn tight against their skulls. The eyes were the worst of all. They were lifeless, black as coal and without a single spark of animation." Gary asked what was going on. Why were they adrift in a busy shipping lane "in this fog thicker than my mother's bean soup?" "Speaking slowly and with a voice resonating deep and cold, the steamer's captain replied, 'We are beyond help--have been for many a year. And indeed we are a wreck. Don't you know what ship this is?'" "Backing away slightly, the tug man said, 'Your name was covered by rust. I couldn't make it out as I circled you.'" "In the same tired voice, the master replied, 'Why, this is the Hudson, lost September 16, 1901, in this very spot. Twenty-four men went to the bottom with her. It's cursed we are, damned by the devil himself. Every year we must come up, only to be dragged down again. Haven't you heard all the tales--of ghost ships and spirit sailors and haunted spots on the lakes? Well, it's true. We are the proof. If you know what's good for you, you will get off this damned ship now, this very instant. Our time is almost done.'" "The tug man never looked back. He bolted out the door and ran as fast as his legs would carry him-- flying down the companionway to the weather deck and on to the place where he first climbed aboard." Rowing like a madman, Gary reached the tugboat, scrambled aboard and fired up the Kahlenberg engine. The mate asked, "Now what was that all about?" "You wouldn't believe me, and I ain't going to tell you," Gary replied, "Steady her up north- northeast. I've got a feeling this ain't a healthy place to be." "What about our nets?" "To hell with them!" Gary snapped, "Get her out of here--now!" No sooner had the Olsen tugboat got under way than the weather changed. "Within minutes the lake was churned into a savage gale. Waves assaulted the tug from every side in a confused melee of water. The glass in the portside pilothouse window blew out when a vicious wave smashed into it. Another wave struck the forward door, ripping out the center lock and flooding into the well. Hammer and nails closed the hole and saved the tug from a watery grave. Desperately the tug struggled on, rolling and plunging in the steep seas until she finally slid between the rock piers at Eagle Harbor." "It had been a very near thing, and it was a story that wouldn't be told for a very long time." When Olsen finally told his story to author Frederick Stonehouse, it cemented the Hudson's reputation as one of the most notorious ghost ships of Lake Superior. (See the book Haunted Lakes by Frederick Stonehouse, Lake Superior Port Cities Inc., Duluth, Minn. 1997, pages 85 to 89.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us next time for more UFO news from around the planet, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1999 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. http://ufoinfo.com/roundup
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Panspermia From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:10:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 02:49:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Panspermia >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:35:26 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Panspermia <snip> >They will also honestly admit that even with the present age of >the universe, up from hundreds of millions of years at the time >of Darwin a century ago to tens of billions of years now, there >is still simply not enough time for life to have evolved to >produce what we have at present. I'm wondering if anyone has ever calculated a projected evolutionary profile of a species based on known parameters of that species' evolution to date? Scientists have calculated the probability of planets out there that may contain life (Drake Equation) so why can't they calculate the probable evolution of a given species based on the rate of evolution observed thus far? Anyone for "quantum evolution"? ;> Hey, Nick, why don't you challenge your scientist friends to come up with a formula to calculate probable evolution? I wonder if applying such a formula to the human species - based on the rate of human evolution thus far - we may find we have evolved more or less compared to our rate of evolution in the past. Nah, just the controversy alone over such a forumla would set humankind back another million years. <grin> Amy Home Page: "http://members.tripod.com/TheVanguard"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:18:47 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 02:50:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas >>>5) Sal Mineo was Jewish. >>Who the hell was Sal Mineo? >Errol, I keep on telling you, get more old farts on this list, >man. Too few of your people even knew Sal! Pulease? Grin...I remember Sal.. He was always: "Having My Baby..." <G> ;-) REgards, Mike Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ ICQ#:7508455 BBS: (270) 683-3026 Fax: (270) 686-7394 Home: (270) 683-6811 ---
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:02:00 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 02:59:45 -0400 Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:53:52 EDT >Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:21:22 EDT >>Subject: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>>Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:16:02 EDT >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'New?' FBI memo about Roswell >>>To: updates@globalserve.net <snip> Yes, I know that I said I wouldn't waste any more bandwidth with Dr. Johnson's allegations, but I can easily prove my point in a third party arena. <another snip> >KRandle also boasts that he is pursuing another master's degree >in military science at American Military University, another >"distance learning" institution that hasn't bothered yet to >establish a campus or resident faculty. He proudly proclaims >that he was retired as an intelligence officer in the grade of >captain. If Dr. Johnson had bothered to look at the material available at www.amunet.edu, he would have noticed that American Military University is fully accredited, a fact he forgot to mention. In the graduate school, I counted more than 90 professors, the vast majority of whom had their own Ph.Ds. Had he looked at the curriculum, he would have seen a listing of the classes available for an intelligence emphasis. In other words, he would have seen that there is a faculty. I invite those of you who are interested in this fight which has taken a nasty turn, to review the AMU website. This semester I am taking two classes including Strategic Intelligence. Dr. Grassey was graduated from Villanova and as a Rhodes Scholar nominee. He did his graduate study at the University of Chicago where he received both his M.A. and his Ph.D. He has taught at Villanova, University of San Diego and San Jose State University. He was appointed academic director of the intelligence studies at the Naval Postgraduate School, and... well you get the point. All of this information is available on the AMU site, but somehow Dr. Johnson missed it. Oh, BTW, no where on my website have I claimed to have retired from military service. >Johnson's military service spanned 43 years with active duty >during three wars. Service spanned... three wars? Did he actually serve in a combat role? I know that he was an aviation cadet at the end of the Second World War, but the war ended before he was graduated. Dr. Johnson is to be commended for his service, and if the war hadn't ended, he would have undoubtedly been involved in the invasion of Japan, which would have been a deadly and bloody campaign. I believe that all service people in 1945 believed that an invasion would be necessary, and those in the service would be involved. It was not duty for the faint of heart. However, Dr. Johnson doesn't mention any combat assignments. I flew helicopters in Vietnam in 1968 and 1969. I was also in the active reserve during the Grenada Invasion (but didn't participate) and during the Gulf War (again, I didn't participate, but was alerted and told I would be going in about two weeks... fortunately, the invasion plan crushed the Iraqis before I left the country). But once again, you don't have to take my word for these things. Learn how Dr. Johnson spins the information to fit his own private world. Please, take a look at the websites and learn the truth for yourself. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' From: Gavin A. J. McLeod <gavin_mcleod@bc.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:53:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:03:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:36:38 -0500 >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Gavin McLeod <gavin_mcleod@bc.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Fear Fighter 'Extinguishes Anxiety' >>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:57:10 -0700 >>Something for abduction induced anxiety? Is there any >>possibility (hopefully very small) of turning soldiers into >>"contented" killers? >>Gavin McLeod >Dear Gavin, >Isn't that what combat training is all about? Hi Amy. Unfortunately training was found to be ineffective after a study was done after WWII. It was found that only 16 to 19 percent of soldiers did all the fighting, the rest just tried to survive. The solution was to use conditioning; stimulus, correct response, reward; see the enemy, kill him, medal. Would Pavlov and Skinner approve?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: The Challenge From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:05:34 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: The Challenge >Hello All, >Some of you that have been following UpDates (for longer than >many of us care to remember) are aware that I have been >struggling to get an investigation by independent experts of any >'physical material' (i.e.; evidence of foreign objects in the >bodies of the abductees, the 'writing' samples that some >investigators have gathered, unusual or unexplained marks and >scars etc.) I have even repeatedly offered myself up to these >"experts" (to no avail) as well. >To date, nothing has happened. We would all be a lot closer to >finding the answers to some important questions if the physical >material is finally analysed. A huge part of the difficulty in >accomplishing it has to do with funding and gathering the >material from those that have so painstakingly collected it over >the years. >The other 'obstacle' to such a study (and the more formidable of >the two) had to do with getting authors, investigators, and >researchers to contribute any relevant material they may be in >possession of. That part is like pulling teeth and requires the >experience and know how of a 'diplomat extraodinaire'! Those of >you that 'know' me will testify to the fact that I may be called >a great many things but "diplomat" is not among them! :) >If this is 'done right' I'm sure that Richard Hall/FUFOR would >help to find the necessary funding for it. I'm just as sure that >he would use any of the human resources at his disposal to >insure that the study is conducted responsibly and by competent >and independent experts. (Experts with no personal 'stake' in >the outcome.) ... Hi John, I've delayed a response to this in hopes that someone on the list whose better at keeping records and files than I am would do it. We've all read or heard, from time to time, of various UFO-related artifacts having been sent out for analysis. It would be good if someone could compile as comprehensive as possible a list of it all, since you, John, are not the first! I can only go from memory myself, but do recall such cases as 1) a metal fragment that Ray Stanford had analyzed (but apparently only for general composition, not isotopic analysis?) 2) the fragment given to that young Asst.(?) Prof. at UC San Diego (?) who found some unearthly isotopic ratios, though his identification of one of them was in error, as he later admitted, which had made it seem like an impossibility 3) fragments from the same source that were sent out to other labs whose names were kept anonymous 4) the fragments sent to Art Bell known as Art's parts, which he then sent out to various labs for analysis 5) the fragments that Linda Howe received that she sent out to various labs 6) the result of Dave Jacob's analysis of some stain on a bedsheet (if I recall correctly) found by an abductee after being returned 7) the implants recovered by Derrel Simms that he sent out for analysis 8) maybe Roger Leir has some, too, that are under analysis? 9) the metal samples from the Meier case analyzed by Marcel Vogel, who found them extremely unusual, and whose remarks and microscopic analysis are on video tape 10) certain metals and substances found at the center of certain fresh crop circles 11) the sample of alien(?) hair reported from an abductee case recently written up in the MUFON journal. 12) many others I can't recall?? It really would be a contribution to get as full a compilation of such alien retrievals as possible. This is notwithstanding the biggest problem of often never hearing back from the laboratories of what their findings were. I think it would be worthwhile not to restrict the compilation just to removed implants. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:47:58 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:10:30 -0400 Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >From Lynda Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:19:44 +0100 >I saw Dr. Mitton on TV the other day and she wiped the floor >with Russ Callaghan of UFO Magazine (UK) and seemed to be a >particularly intelligent advocate for 'scientific' Ufology. No >doubt the fact that she's a woman will raise the hackles of the >middle-aged bloke squad within Ufology! Excuse me, but there's not a scintilla of evidence for that either.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs From: Royce J. Myers III <evidence@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:07:06 PDT Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:27:28 -0400 Subject: Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:19:07 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >Subject: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs The astronomer, Dr. Jacqueline Mitton, has obviously not studied any of the literature, done any first-hand investigation and has not studied a single bit of the massive physical evidence regarding UFOs. This is no big surprise considering so-called science's track record of conducting any true investigation of UFOs. It would be nice if some of these so-called "scientists" would actually engage their brains and get the nerve to actually investigate what was taking place. A Ph.D does not give you a key to the hall of answers for everything. The mere use of the word debunking clearly demonstrates that Dr. Jacqueline is not interested in engaging in a real investigation. The good doctor gives the call to confront pseudo science, yet she has no problem engaging in it by voicing opinion rather than fact. Well, I guess I should be used to this sort of sideline quarterbacking and the fact that "every sighting can be explained [aka debunked] by natural or man-made phenomena." Regards, Royce J. Myers III eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: The Challenge From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:34:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:36:05 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:12:04 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0400 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: The Challenge >>Hello All, >>Some of you that have been following UpDates (for longer than >>many of us care to remember) are aware that I have been >>struggling to get an investigation by independent experts of any >>'physical material' (i.e.; evidence of foreign objects in the >>bodies of the abductees, the 'writing' samples that some >>investigators have gathered, unusual or unexplained marks and >>scars etc.) I have even repeatedly offered myself up to these >>"experts" (to no avail) as well. >>To date, nothing has happened. We would all be a lot closer to >>finding the answers to some important questions if the physical >>material is finally analysed. A huge part of the difficulty in >>accomplishing it has to do with funding and gathering the >>material from those that have so painstakingly collected it over >>the years. ><snip> >>Enough talk. Let's demand a study and, that the authors and >>investigators that we have supported with our dollars over the >>years, contribute what data/material they can to the effort. >>There are many ways to do it, but FUFOR seems like a good choice >>as a central coordinator for such a study and one that many >>would trust and have some confidence in. >>Action, action, we want action! Hi Nick, hello All, Nick responded: >Hi everyone. >I understand and share John Velez's frustrations. >For about half a century there have been calls for an end to >government UFO secrecy while we have totally ignored the bigger >but unintentional coverup by UFO researchers themselves. By >keeping certain important UFO incidents and even actual physical >evidence for UFOs to themselves, we have become part of the >coverup. Don't ever 'lump yourself in' with the others Nick! You are one of the very few with strong connections to the academic community (and an awful lot to lose) that gives of his own time and resources to help find reliable/truthful answers to questions that are far more urgent than most would be willing to acknowlege. You're one of the 'good guys' Nick. I can't begin to tell you how very grateful I am for all your assistance, work, and expertise in the past, and hopefully for the future as well. Sorry brotherman, I didn't mean you. I was talkling about Mack, Hopkins, Jacobs, Fowler, Carpenter, and a host of others who may (or may not) hold the keys to many doors. It's time that the public which supports them with hard earned $ begins to (demand) _evidence_ (hard evidence, independant analysis of the material) before a single red cent is spent on another 'book' or 'lecture fee.' >Of course, our reasons may be understandable for doing >so, such as a promise to keep something confidential or even >simply because we do not have the time, expertise or financial >resources to pursue what we know or possess by ourselves. There is no need to compromise the privacy or anonymity of any abductees/subjects that may be required to participate in such a study. As for 'time, expertise, and financial resources,' 1. They all seem to find the time and energy to write a great many 'books' don't they! :) 2. They have all -set themselves up- as "experts" we did not 'thrust' that title upon them. (At least -I- have not! <g>) 3. Although I can vouch for the fact that these guys are not getting 'fat' off of the money they make from book sales and lectures, -they do derive income from it!- Like I said in my original post, they have a social and ethical obligation to the public that supports them with 'legal tender' to voluntarily offer any material they may have accumulated for -independant analysis.- It wouldn't/shouldn't cost them a penny to turn material over to a third party for study. The ones that will incur any costs will be the guys conducting the analysis. That is why I took the time to 'suggest' FUFOR as a funding source. 'Expense to them' (Mack, Jacobs, Hopkins, Carpenter, Fowler et al,) . . . I don't think so amigo. All they have to do -is give it up.- Guarantees can be made to all that their materials will be returned after the study is complete. They can all get 'credit' for it, and they can even be asked to contribute individual white papers to be included in whatever is published on the results after the study. No muss, no fuss. But, it's going to take -strong- public pressure to make it so. None of them will have any motivation to participate otherwise. >Let us pick a date (John Velez's birthday?) and challenge every >UFO researcher and persons with knowledge of or interest in UFOs >to come forward and share what they know or possess. Nearly all >of us have an important UFO story or UFO related fact that >remains untold. If you cannot share it without revealing your >sources, fine, but let us have it. >It will make following UFO UpDates even more interesting. >Nick Balaskas >P.S. If John's birthday has just passed, then let us pick the >end of October (Halloween) when our UFO secrets come out. My 50th was back in January Nick, but 'Halloween' seems appropriate enough! I would like to see folks do what you suggested. It -would- add to the fun and interest of our UpDates list. But the more important issue is to begin applying pressure to the above mentioned individuals. They are the ones holding the 'cards.' I know that Dave Jacobs reads these posts. There are people on this list that can get copies of these posts into the hands of Budd Hopkins. I'm not certain about the others. If everyone with an interest in the subject, or who has purchased and read the books that are written, or paid to attend lectures was to write to _them_ and ask them to participate in an independant study, _something_ of real value may finally happen. Shoot, we may even get an important answer or two out of the deal! Thanx again for your always kind support Nick. (Ditto for my buddy Sean in the UK!) :) Peace, John Velez, Webmaster AIC ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: The Challenge From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:48:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:41:53 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >From: Bill Weber <koran@cchat.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:59:28 -0400 >>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0400 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: The Challenge <snip> John wrote: >>Everyone should take the time to write to Budd Hopkins, David >>Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, John Carpenter et al and -ask >>them- to collectively contribute any materials they may be in >>possession of that may help to advance what little is known >>about UFO abductions. If it turns out that they _don't_ have >>anything of value in stock then that fact should also be known. Bill responded: >I agree. It's high time they get these private files out on the >table for everyone to look at - like in any other field of >research. This doesn't mean that witness anonymity has to be >ignored. The "facts" can be presented without subjecting any >individual to public ridicule. No matter the outcome or >interpretation, all the evidence should be public access. You'd >think these guys, more than anyone, would _want_ that to happen. >You'd think they'd _want_ as many perspectives on their private >bits of evidence and witness testimony as there are UFO >researchers. I'm writing my letter, John. Take care. Hi Bill, hi All, You got the message man! Yes, please, write to them. Isn't it high time something like this is done! My Ghod man, this isn't about who may be right or wrong, or whose theory is closer to the truth or not. All of that is 'juiceless' intellectual masturbation. What matters is, that there are very real human lives hanging in the balance. Folks don't seem to realize that if what we have been reporting is true, then every living ass on the planet is in potential jeopardy. These aren't just "important" questions, they are -vital- to not only our future but that of all generations to follow. Questions don't get much bigger or more important to answer than that. Let's hope that more folks jump on the bandwagon and begin letting these folks know that it's time to sh*t or get off the pot. I don't know about you, but I'm kinda tired of not being taken seriously. It appears that if _anything_ is going to get done, (as per usual) we'll have to do it ourselves. Peace, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas From: Sue Strickland <strick@H2Net.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:47:12 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:57:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:25:34 -0500 >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:53:35 EDT >>Subject: Five Really Stupid Ideas >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Five Really Stupid Ideas >>by J. Jaime Gesundt, Ph.D.'s >>1) Life exists elsewhere in the Universe so we should look for >> it by searching the radio spectrum for their ham operators, >> every sentient and progressive culture has them you know. I grew up in an area of Columbus, Ohio in a suburb called Bexley. I don't live there anymore, so I guess I can talk about it. The homes were built in the 40's, 50's and early 60's. In approximately 1994, the head astronomer for COSETI at OSU Observatory moved within 2 blocks of the woods where the UFOs used to land on a regular basis, and only a block from my old house, where the abductions took place for 10 years. After one such sighting and visit, our family had some government agent-policemen in our backyard with Geiger counters; that was the first time I'd seen one, and he showed me how it worked. They took soil samples from our back yard and the woods one block away. Apparently they told Dad they didn't find anything. Think he believed them? Nope. The head of this COSETI team is the one who discovered the anomalous signal several years ago. Instead of radio waves, they are using laser light technology to search the heavens 10-100 lys away for signals from outer space. I wrote him a couple of times and suggested he train the telescope a few blocks away in case other children in the area are still being abducted 30 years later (God forbid). He tried to sound nonchalant about the "coincidence." I let him know I don't believe in such occurrences being coincidental. Whenever the "scientists" and "UFOlogist researchers" expend time and energy, intent try so very hard to appear as though they have sound, viable evidence debunking the UFO experiences of others, they shoot themselves in the feet. When J. Black and P. Klass et al. continue their purported disbelief to the *extent* and degree they have, I just remember the MIB in my backyard, the burn scars on my leg, and the head of COSETI living down the street from where my sister and I endured numerous abductions for over 10 years. "He doth protest too much, me thinks" (W. Shakespeare). Hugs, Sue
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: [OvnisUfos] More Photos Mexican UFOsighting From: Guillermo Alarcon <ufoalarcon@email.msn.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:38:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:10:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [OvnisUfos] More Photos Mexican UFOsighting Dear friends I am forwarding a copy to all of you acording to my contact Leopoldo Zambrano of the City of Monterrey Mexico, the supposed OVNI whitnessed by civilians It was only a balloon celebrating one of the government candidates, PAN. Sorry but this has already been confirmed by the Municipal president, so no it wasn't a UFO this time my friends.. Not this time but this doesn't mean they don't exist.. P.S. Please forward this email to all lists and all UFO sources This wasn't a UFO Pleaase forward this message Thank;s Guillermo Alarcon -----Original Message----- From: Leopoldo Zambrano Enrquez <guia_xfiles@infosel.net.mx> To: OvnisUfos@onelist.com <OvnisUfos@onelist.com> Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 1:49 AM Subject: RE: [OvnisUfos] more photo's mexican ufosighting >Mi estimado Gillermo, lo que se llam en un principio OVNI, no era ms que >un globo perdido de el ltimo evento de apoyo del PARTIDO ACCION NACIONAL >(PAN) que actualmente gobierna nuestro estado.... es comn que en esas >celebraciones de partido lancen al aire globos con motivos >propagandsticos... >Dos das despus del "Avistamiento", esto fue confirmado por la Presidenta >del comit de campaa...... > >Lamento decepcionarlos, pero esto ya ha pasado antes......... > >NO FUE UNA NAVE EXTRATERRESTRE. > >Ya se pudo identificar.... > >Saludos... > >-----Mensaje original----- >De: Guillermo Alarcon <ufoalarcon@email.msn.com> >Para: OvnisUfos@onelist.com <OvnisUfos@onelist.com> >Fecha: Jueves, 16 de Septiembre de 1999 02:53 p.m. >Asunto: [OvnisUfos] more photo's mexican ufosighting >>From: "Guillermo Alarcon" <ufoalarcon@email.msn.com> >>Foto de Mexico
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:31:36 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:14:58 -0400 Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:58:16 +0100 <snippage> G'day Ms Randles, >I wanted to advise that I did a radio programme in Sheffield >with Dr Mitton today. She was charming, well informed and >objective. The press stories have not done her justice. I >believe she will be a very useful ally to British Ufology. Yes, >she is a sceptic but she is far from a debunker, has read the >evidence, understands it better than many ufologists I know and >is someone worth keeping on side. She tells me she is free of >research committments and is thus willing to take the big risk >she perceives it to be to her career to talk about UFOs in >public. Its a start and I think we should cultivate rather than >pooh pooh this scientist. She might well be charming and well informed but then, there's the matter of this section in the press release that Stig posted: --- "Since then interest in UFOs had grown to become a worldwide obsession, said Dr Mitton. But she is convinced every sighting can be explained by natural or man-made phenomena." --- I would not call her entirely "objective". Can she even tell the difference between geese and pelicans? I think it's great that a credentialed scientist jumps into the fray. Let her roll her up sleeves, stow away her pre-conceived notions and get to work. Don http://www.fwpd.net/dona/tesla/teslacoil.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Stealth Blimp From: Marty Murray <bubastis@warplink.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:00:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:20:58 -0400 Subject: Stealth Blimp Hi All! In the September 1999 issue of Popular Mechanics magazine there is an article entitled "Skunk Works Magic," written by Jim Wilson. The article is basically a history of the famed Skunk Works founded by aircraft designer Kelly Johnson, and describes many of the cutting edge aircraft produced there. However, towards the end of the article, in a paragraph entitled "Future Planes" there is a description of a secret aircraft called the stealth blimp. I will quote the article here: "Tales of mystery craft continue. There have been scores of sightings of a 1000 ft. long stealth blimp that supposedly carries a massive phased array radar. The craft is said to disguise itself by using "optical stealth" technology that creates an image of a floating star field." An accompanying illustration shows a large, triangular black craft, thin in profile, that looks nothing like the conventional blimps we are used to. If this aircraft is genuine, then I would assume it is fairly slow moving and silent, and may be responsible for many UFO reports concerning unknown triangular black craft. I have read a number of reports recently on this list that would match its description. I am in no way attempting to say that this vehicle accounts for all those sightings, but there is a good chance it may have been the cause of several of them. An interesting possibility to ponder in any case. Cheers, Marty
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 02:41:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:38:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:15:19 +0100 >>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:45:45 -0500 >>From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >>Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>One important pattern in all mutilations, speculations aside, is >>the very presence of a corpse as opposed to no corpse at all. >We must also consider that in some cases; >- There _are_ loonies out there. Very sick ones at that. Maybe >they bought scalpels..... >- Farmers can claim off their insurance if it's 'death by >unknown causes'. Picked this up off an insurance colleague. >- Most of this seems to be happening in the USA and is pushed by >a small group of researchers who are _still_ been unable to prove >that extra-terrestrials are responsible. They are making modern >Ufology more like a sick snuff movie...not a credible research >effort. >Has a vet ever said that in his/her view "aliens" are >responsible for 'mutilations' and if so why is he/she still >practicing? >That should get people going..... hopefully not 'mooing'. If you had enough balls to take a closer look at the mutilations, you'd find that those same ufologists who are pointing fingers at extraterrestrials as the main cause of these animal deaths are, it seems to me, a lot closer to the mark than those who say "predatory attacks by a loonie or a crazed animal". There is more circumstantial evidence for the ET explanation than there is for any other 'theory'. Lack of human tracks in wet soil or snow where some of the animals were found; reports of unusual lights in the vicinity before and after a mutilation...all these are pretty good indications that something unearthly is going on! Open your eyes and let the evidence speak for itself. Michel M. Deschamps MUFON Provincial Section Director for Sudbury, Ontario, Canada & UFO Eyewitness
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: [OvnisUfos] More Photos Mexican UFO Sighting From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:32:10 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:46:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [OvnisUfos] More Photos Mexican UFO Sighting >From: Guillermo Alarcon <ufoalarcon@email.msn.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto >Subject: [OvnisUfos] More Photos Mexican UFO Sighting >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:38:41 -0700 >Dear friends I am forwarding a copy to all of you acording to my >contact Leopoldo Zambrano of the City of Monterrey Mexico, the >supposed OVNI whitnessed by civilians It was only a balloon >celebrating one of the government candidates, PAN. Sorry but >this has already been confirmed by the Municipal president, so >no it wasn't a UFO this time my friends.. >Not this time but this doesn't mean they don't exist.. >P.S. Please forward this email to all lists and all UFO sources >This wasn't a UFO Pleaase forward this message >Thank;s >Guillermo Alarcon >-----Original Message----- >From: Leopoldo Zambrano Enrquez <guia_xfiles@infosel.net.mx> >To: OvnisUfos@onelist.com <OvnisUfos@onelist.com> >Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 1:49 AM >Subject: RE: [OvnisUfos] more photo's mexican ufosighting >>Mi estimado Gillermo, lo que se llam en un principio OVNI, no era ms que >>un globo perdido de el ltimo evento de apoyo del PARTIDO ACCION NACIONAL >>(PAN) que actualmente gobierna nuestro estado.... es comn que en esas >>celebraciones de partido lancen al aire globos con motivos >>propagandsticos... >>Dos das despus del "Avistamiento", esto fue confirmado por la Presidenta >>del comit de campaa...... >>Lamento decepcionarlos, pero esto ya ha pasado antes......... >>NO FUE UNA NAVE EXTRATERRESTRE. >>Ya se pudo identificar.... >>Saludos... <snip> Dear Guillermo: Thank you very much for your clarification regarding the Monterrey PAN balloon! If everyone were as conscientious as you are, there would be a much better signal, and a lot less noise. Very best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs From: Maxwell Burns <maxwell.burns@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:44:40 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:41:46 -0400 Subject: Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs >From: Royce J. Myers III <evidence@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:07:06 PDT >The astronomer, Dr. Jacqueline Mitton, has obviously not studied >any of the literature, done any first-hand investigation and has >not studied a single bit of the massive physical evidence >regarding UFOs. >This is no big surprise considering so-called science's track >record of conducting any true investigation of UFOs. It would be >nice if some of these so-called "scientists" would actually >engage their brains and get the nerve to actually investigate >what was taking place. Royce, and you will no doubt be pleased to note that this is the same Dr Mitton, who came forward with the Bolide meteor hypothesis for the incident that occurred in Sheffield on the 24th March 1997. Which has now been removed from the picture.. I also wrote to Dr Mitton in April of 1998 with a list of detailed questions regarding Bolide meteors, the letter I sent and the reply I recieved I still have on file, and if the readers wish to see both documents then I can reproduce them to this list. She is a debunker of the highest order and was wheeled out to explain that the Sheffield incident was nothing more than the now world renowned BOLIDE.. Max Burns
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Alfred's Odd Ode #317 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:14:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:51:15 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #317 Apology to MW #317 (For September 18, 1999) I feel like my plug is pulled. Drugged, distracted, and annulled -- adrift in this society of wayward souls who would be free. Divorced from my autonomy, and driven to once healing knees, a troubling ground distracts and plies and forces eyes from listless skies. Hostile people orbit 'round, their children on contested ground, and I can't hear their anguished words that, (almost a foreign language) churn. Ridiculed for even trying, misunderstanding (bald face lying) -- dodging missiles of derision . . . in multitudes of indecision's . . . Those that hold the golden reigns would choose their own contrived refrains. They are not the least bit worried (as they watch us crawl and scurry) that their way is not the best, and makes us fail some crucial test! We're NOT alone in FINITE space; it's well admitted, and the case, but these proponents of old thinking cripple and deny us *stinking* they would do the righteous thing while wearing craven crowns of kings! Arbitrary and conniving, graced by *GOD* to do the thriving, these pretenders of our rules would have us live enthralled -- abused. Distracted by the flashing glitter of sullen rap stars -- heavy hitters, folks are kept less satisfied to keep them hungry, mad -- denied. Froth them up on "burning flags", or "silly stains on crass blue rags" to snatch their eyes from stunning wonders kept from view by those who plunder! I imagine gracious spaces, with plastic wings I fly (if graceless), coasting in a hollow sphere that orbits, high, so far from here. Working in my hydroponics, breathing air that's like a tonic, making things that save the earth and bring her back, yes, lift our curse! Colonize the asteroids -- bigger thoughts, and better choices, we could live in harmony if we avoided harming knees. Simply put, it's _not_ respect that keeps us mired and in debt. We don't keep our promises; we distort our common senses; some of us would break our oaths to wear a *better* set of clothes. This WILL keep us from the stars, and tie us down with ancient bars that we don't need or even want if truth was more than nonchalant. Take a breath and draw it free as you come off your callused knees, and take advantage of the wealth that staggers us with full stocked shelves! And nature IS a realm of strife, but *man* would cruelly _twist_ that knife, and take from those that cannot fight what they might find to LIKE in life. The bluest sky all filled with clouds, the greenest hill apart from crowds. A graceful spot to sit and rest, some birds to soar and make their nests. Colors fresh in soft pastels that stroke and kiss the eyes -- the smells! Smells that move your mind around to places you remember -- sounds, sounds that brush the ears . . . caresses, brushing, well away, distresses. Peace from loathsome human hounds that prey on those who stay in bounds is what to wish if you would rather, but you're distracted I would gather. There could be an actualization as more perceive their desperation as something they must _save_ against (plus turn to Knapp, and Howe, or Rense). That we don't get the "real deal" is starkly plain (and so unreal) -- lost as it repeats refrains that treat us like we have no brains. We only want our self respect that we have LOST to sad neglect. Robber barons -- like of old, but all too legal, so I'm told, hiding our myopic eyes from *treasures* they so fear . . . despise. Plenty can be had by all; autonomy is what it's called, and you have earned it 'cause you're born to dance too fast for some man's scorn. People team despite their fortunes, they can SEE beyond distortion, and what in fact produce THESE teams, more _power_ to contribute -- DREAMS, and _then_ we fly in off-world spheres that spread more wealth -- outdistance fear. We could LEAP out from our star, we could spread between them -- far; we could live within the belt that sits between the planets _dealt_. Just a simple bridge suspended, with no endpoints we've invented, room enough for all our dreams, or Larry Niven's off the beam. And yet I feel so confined in this we call our present time, with crass restrictions on our senses, sweet release behind tall fences -- all that we could hope or pray for well within a grasp we've paid for. Undefined, our satisfaction tantalizes its distraction; all the cars and homes you buy don't fill _that_ place within you, Clyde. You would have enough to give if those that _have_ would give ONE rib, and live in worlds _we_ inhabit, live the rules that we cohabit -- righteous honest self actualization that we have _earned_ in protestation. This my wish though heavens FALL, and folks hear drumming -- different calls, and we discover brand new ages -- rules rewritten, truth in pages. UFO's would fill the skies; with less there's more, and less despised -- and we would find this *larger* world preferable to our centers curled 'round the message of a man* that fronted for a church's brand. This confines and ties me down, these people all so scared to drown in seas where they have no control though "process due" is what's extolled. Lehmberg@snowhill.com *Aristotle. Restore John Ford! -- Visit a Virtual Art Gallery in Cyberspace! Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more. Consider Matter, Mind & Movement. See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration. Take a ride in the Teleporter and check the inexplicable. EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL. http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ **<Updated 18 September>** http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- Send your checks and money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at: 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: The Challenge From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:55:24 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:57:35 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: The Challenge Hello All, >The other 'obstacle' to such a study (and the more formidable of >the two) had to do with getting authors, investigators, and >researchers to contribute any relevant material they may be in >possession of. That part is like pulling teeth and requires the >experience and know how of a 'diplomat extraodinaire'! Those of >you that 'know' me will testify to the fact that I may be called >a great many things but "diplomat" is not among them! :) I, for one, can understand, to a certain extent, this trend. I know that as I spend my time, my effort and my money on an investigation, I want to be the one to bring that information to the public. I want the chance to break the story. On the other hand, however, once that information is out, it is time to reveal all so that others can follow up, others can verify, and others can duplicate, so that we know the information or evidence is there and is valid. Without that follow up and verification, there is nothing but another story circulating inside the UFO field. >If this is 'done right' I'm sure that Richard Hall/FUFOR would >help to find the necessary funding for it. I'm just as sure that >he would use any of the human resources at his disposal to >insure that the study is conducted responsibly and by competent >and independent experts. (Experts with no personal 'stake' in >the outcome.) And sometimes this has been done, but we ignore the results. Dr. Richard Neal did a marvelous study on the missing fetus syndrome that is rarely mentioned in abduction circles because he found a complete lack of scientific evidence. For those who wish more information, please look at 'The Abduction Enigma' (317-327), and UFO magazine (US version) Vol. 7, No. 1 (1992), and Vol. 6, No. 4 (1991). There is also the Price artifact that was examined as an outgrowth of the MIT conference. The results of this analysis were negative, yet we hear little about that. Again, see 'The Abduction Enigma' (317-327) and Bryant's 'Close Encounters Of The Fourth Kind' (231). >As for the authors, investigators, and researchers; the >"challenge" is, to -voluntarily- contribute any materials that >may help to find answers to questions which -continue to go >unanswered.- It is a social and ethical imperative that they do >so. The ones who are 'paying the price' for all the >procrastination is the experiencers/ the abductees themselves. >The most 'righteous' question that any skeptic or believer alike >has is; "Where's the physical evidence?" We -all- deserve an >answer to that one. The sad truth is, unless the complete >cooperation of all concerned is enlisted, those "answers" will >not be forthcoming. Could it be that the physical evidence simply isn't there? We have all the testimony we need on the subject. Hundreds have offered their time to provide interviews to the researchers, and hypnotizing another hundred isn't going to substantially advance our knowledge of abduction, especially with all the problems that hypnosis induces. Physical, corroborative evidence is what is needed and there simply isn't any that has withstood scientific scrutiny. Yes, I'm aware of Derrel Sims and his box of implants, but those implants have not bee examined by a variety of scientists and specialists. There are no independent reports that are not tainted by selective data. Although it has been suggested that there are independent studies accomplished, when those studies are requested, they are not forthcoming. We have no way to verify the results, and that is where we are. We have identified the problem, but we have not moved much beyond that point. >It's a shame that a nobody jamoke like me is the only one >actively calling for a study of this material. It's an even >bigger shame that those who profit most from our reports (UFO >authors, investigators, and researchers) have not yet made any >effort among themselves to have an independent analysis of their >findings/collected material performed and published. John, you're not alone in calling for the study, but what do you expect when many of those who hold the data selectively reveal it to some people, but not all, and withhold much of it so that it can't be verified. The independent verification, as you so rightly pointed out, is exactly what we need. >Everyone should take the time to write to Budd Hopkins, David >Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, John Carpenter et al and -ask >them- to collectively contribute any materials they may be in >possession of that may help to advance what little is known >about UFO abductions. If it turns out that they _don't_ have >anything of value in stock then that fact should also be known. I think you might have found the problem. There is nothing in stock of value. >I'm 'gut sick' over the incessant debate and chatter that could >all be quelled immediately with a single scientific study. This >information belongs to all humanity. Human rights are being >grossly violated by authors/investigators that 'hoard' and >'covet' evidential data they have gathered. The pressure should >be as strong (if not stronger) for them to cooperate with >a study, than the public pressure on the government to release >whatever they may have. Other than using the material to write >and sell more books, if they are hoarding data, they are no >different from the monkey boys in Washington DC that spend >all their time hoarding what they have! But could the debate be quelled? What if the answer is negative? Would that satisfy, or would cover-up be shouted? It is clear to me that sleep paralysis is the precipitating event in some, but certainly not all, abduction cases. I certainly believe that Pat Roach experienced an episode of sleep paralysis and in her mind turned it into an alien abduction. A review of the material (Again, see 'The Abduction Enigma' (178-191, 367-384). It is clear to me that her descriptions of the alien creatures, the examination the ship, and the other experiences are the outgrowth of her reading about UFOs and the poor investigative techniques by both Dr. Harder and me. We both wanted to find another abduction, and we found it. >I say boycott them all, don't buy the books or attend the >lectures) until they -all- submit their data/proof for >independent scientific analysis. Why bother with it otherwise? A >big part of the problem with ufology has to do with the >acceptance and support of material that amounts to nothing more >than anecdotes (if not accompanied by some form of proof or at >least a willingness to have it verified independently.) I don't >know, would you take a drug that the manufacturer alone told you >was safe? Or, would you prefer to take one that was thoroughly >tested and studied by experts who are -independent- of the >manufacturer? I can't figure out why the same criteria that is >applied to something that you'd put in your body, is not applied >to the things we put into our minds! I say, buy the books, attend the lectures, but don't sit there in awe of what is being said, challenge it. Ask the hard questions. Force them to think... and force me to answer the questions. Maybe you don't like my conclusions on alien abduction, then ask. The only time that I am disappointed is when the debate degenerates into name calling and character assassination. Let's talk about this and see if we have the right answers or not. >Enough talk. Let's demand a study and, that the authors and >investigators that we have supported with our dollars over the >years, contribute what data/material they can to the effort. >There are many ways to do it, but FUFOR seems like a good choice >as a central coordinator for such a study and one that many >would trust and have some confidence in. But once that study is made, don't attack the messenger because you don't like the results. I have seen that happen time and again. The only results that we want are those that support our personal belief structures. If you dare to challenge those then you are a government agent, your are a pawn of the CIA, you are just a know nothing skeptic. Sure, challenge the results if you don't like them to make sure that those results are valid, but also challenge them if you do. Don't sit back and say, "See, I told you." Challenge it all to make sure that the facts are accurate and the conclusions valid. >Action, action, we want action! Okay, but be open to the alternative explanations. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: The Challenge From: Bill Weber <koran@cchat.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:49:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:05:45 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:48:45 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >>From: Bill Weber <koran@cchat.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: The Challenge >>Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:59:28 -0400 >>>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0400 >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>>Subject: The Challenge ><snip> >John wrote: >>>Everyone should take the time to write to Budd Hopkins, David >>>Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, John Carpenter et al and -ask >>>them- to collectively contribute any materials they may be in >>>possession of that may help to advance what little is known >>>about UFO abductions. If it turns out that they _don't_ have >>>anything of value in stock then that fact should also be known. >Bill responded: >>I agree. It's high time they get these private files out on the >>table for everyone to look at - like in any other field of >>research. This doesn't mean that witness anonymity has to be >>ignored. The "facts" can be presented without subjecting any >>individual to public ridicule. No matter the outcome or >>interpretation, all the evidence should be public access. You'd >>think these guys, more than anyone, would _want_ that to happen. >>You'd think they'd _want_ as many perspectives on their private >>bits of evidence and witness testimony as there are UFO >>researchers. I'm writing my letter, John. Take care. >Hi Bill, hi All, >You got the message man! Yes, please, write to them. Isn't it >high time something like this is done! My Ghod man, this isn't >about who may be right or wrong, or whose theory is closer to >the truth or not. All of that is 'juiceless' intellectual >masturbation. Hi, John, It would be nice to see anyone on this list argue the merits based on some sort of evidence - even if the "evidence" was exclusively opinion testimony - and apparently, it isn't. Whether the final consensus comes up heads or tails, at least we'd all be one step closer to the truth. And after 3 or 4 years of reading your comments here, that's all you've ever seemed to ask. One only has to browse a publication like IUR to realize there are more than enough extremely talented people in this field; people who would be capable of objectively sifting the data. I just wish they had more to work with. (BTW, John, what's your guess as to the actual numbers of people that Budd and David Jacobs have worked with?) I agree, the protection of this evidence has long since passed the point of being reasonable. Everyone should be "beating that drum" and writing to the aforementioned researchers. Best, Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' From: Joaquim Fernandes <jfernan@esoterica.pt> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:37:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:16:42 -0400 Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >From Lynda Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:19:44 +0100 >>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> >>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:58:16 +0100 To Jenny and Lynda, You have my humble support relating the hard critics about Dr. Mitton talk. If she appear to be open to discuss in a progressive and scientific manner the UFO subject, why not keeping the trust on her and inviting to help with technical critics and methodological advises any ufological-kind event in Britain? We in Portugal are trying to increase the number of academics interested and other technical counselors (weather, aviation, etc.) revealed important to the global data analyses on this matter. I think the better way is not to ostracise our collegues and get of them their better! Best regards Joaquim Fernandes University Fernando Pessoa Porto Portugal
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: The Challenge From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:39:07 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:27:33 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge Jim Deardorff writes ... >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:24:51 -0700 (PDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0400 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: The Challenge >>Hello All, >>Some of you that have been following UpDates (for longer than >>many of us care to remember) are aware that I have been >>struggling to get an investigation by independent experts of any >>'physical material' (i.e.; evidence of foreign objects in the >>bodies of the abductees, the 'writing' samples that some >>investigators have gathered, unusual or unexplained marks and >>scars etc.) I have even repeatedly offered myself up to these >>"experts" (to no avail) as well. ><snip> >Hi John, >... We've all read or heard, from time to time, of various >UFO-related artifacts having been sent out for analysis. It >would be good if someone could compile as comprehensive as >possible a list of it all, since you, John, are not the first! >I can only go from memory myself, but do recall such cases as 1) >a metal fragment that Ray Stanford had analyzed (but apparently >only for general composition, not isotopic analysis?) >2) the fragment given to that young Asst.(?) Prof. at UC San >Diego (?) who found some unearthly isotopic ratios, though his >identification of one of them was in error, as he later >admitted, which had made it seem like an impossibility >3) fragments from the same source that were sent out to other >labs whose names were kept anonymous >4) the fragments sent to Art Bell known as Art's parts, which he >then sent out to various labs for analysis >5) the fragments that Linda Howe received that she sent out to >various labs >6) the result of Dave Jacob's analysis of some stain on a >bedsheet (if I recall correctly) found by an abductee after >being returned >7) the implants recovered by Derrel Simms that he sent out for >analysis >8) maybe Roger Leir has some, too, that are under analysis? >9) the metal samples from the Meier case analyzed by Marcel >Vogel, who found them extremely unusual, and whose remarks and >microscopic analysis are on video tape >10) certain metals and substances found at the center of certain >fresh crop circles >11) the sample of alien(?) hair reported from an abductee case >recently written up in the MUFON journal. >12) many others I can't recall?? >It really would be a contribution to get as full a compilation >of such alien retrievals as possible. This is notwithstanding >the biggest problem of often never hearing back from the >laboratories of what their findings were. I think it would be >worthwhile not to restrict the compilation just to removed >implants. > Jim Deardorff Regarding Jim's item 5 above, for those of you unfamiliar with the details ... In her book "Glimpses of Other Realities, Vol. II: High Strangeness, in chapter 1, "Military Voices" (pages 11-22) Linda Moulton Howe discusses analysis of a metallic sample allegedly from the "central underside of Wedge-shaped Disc" which had crashed in New Mexico. By means of a technique called Wavelength Dispersive Spectroscopy (WDS), the sample was determined to consist of 25 alternating layers of bismuth and magnesium/zinc, the bismuth layers averaging 1-4 microns thick, and the magnesium/zinc layers averaging 100 to 200 microns thick. Despite extensive inquiries, Howe was unable to locate anyone connected aerospace, metallurgy, exotic metals manufacture, or military labs/intelligence who had any knowledge of such layered material, or how to manufacture it. An electrial engineer & physicist at the Army's Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville, Alabama told her: "I have basically exhausted every source I know that I have ever tried to use in the past from about 1940 to now. I have have found no reference, even in government research, for bismuth/magnesium layers. This material didn't just make itself. It had to come from somewhere. ... somebody had to build it and no one has reported building it. It's a very high tech piece of material, so if they didn't report it, why did they build it? That's what we do in science. We do some research and then we tell everyone about it. And nobody's told anyone about this material" The chapter includes a number of charts and scanning electron microscope images of the sample and its layering. This is what I would call proper scientific investigation of evidence (to the extent possible, given the available resources). There's much more detail in Howe's book if anyone cares. -Brian C.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Apology to H.F. From: Jsmortell@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:19:58 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:30:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Apology to H.F. Hello List; In a recent post, I used the wrong name for hurricain Floyd. It was a mistake. Perhaps Freud was lurking somewhere in the dark recesses of what's left of my Grippled brain, however I assure you that Freud aside, it was an error of complete innocence. Hmmm... Floyd, Freud. I am a poet and don't know it. Sorry! Jim Mortellaro, aka, J. Jaime Gesundt
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs From: Scott Ribordy <sdr@ns.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:32:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:57:28 -0400 Subject: Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:14:46 -0500 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs >>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:19:07 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >>Subject: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs <snip> >>"I don't think there is a single scrap of evidence that we have >>been visited by aliens," said Dr Mitton, the Royal Astronomical >>Society's Press officer. >... and? >This proves exactly -- what? Let's get Tesla's papers released >to the public first. I think there is likely _plenty_ of >evidence. Getting at it, passed the levels of classification and >the conveniently ubiquitous national security issues, is another >matter. I call for a debate! Let her defend her assertions in >discussion. Hi Alfred & Distinguished List Members, Perhaps someone should drop her a line and invite her to join us here on UpDates. [Dr. Mitton is receiving copies of posts referring to her from UpDates - the choice to subscribe or not is hers -- ebk] Regards, sdr@ns.net (Scott)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 [SO] Filer's Files #37 -- 1999 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:24:07 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:12:22 -0400 Subject: [SO] Filer's Files #37 -- 1999 From: Majorstar@aol.com Filer's Files #37 -- 1999, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern September 17, 1999, Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 As hurricane Floyd works it way along the US East Coast our hearts, thoughts and prayers go out to those in danger. The storm is expected to reach my area in a matter of hours, and electricity is already out at the corner stores. UFO reports continue heavy from around the world, but not near the storm. NEW YORK DISKS LEVITTOWN, LONG ISLAND -- Dave Hagemeister reports on September 1, 1999, Ed G a well educated married professional heard a very unusual throbbing-sound that reverberated throughout his home. It was a rapidly cycling hum or whine-sound; that fluctuated in volume. The strange pulsating gong sound became louder and awakened Ed's wife at 10:00 PM. She called out loudly; "Ed, do you hear that strange noise?" She parted the bedroom curtains and saw an eerie-blue-glow in their backyard. Ed cautiously opened their front-door; to see a huge disk-shaped UFO, the size of a commercial-airliner, hovering 130 feet high just a few yards above the water-tower several blocks away. The object was very dark and dull circular disc that tapered from its thin edge all around its perimeter to seven feet thick at its center. The UFO tilted down toward Ed at a 45-degree angle. Ed could see a straight line of a dozen steadily glowing blue-lights, extending from the lower edge directly across its midsection, to the edge furthest from him. There was a larger bright blinking blue light at farthest edge of the object. His wife ran to see the object move slowly towards the southeast. Ed ran barefoot out of the house and down the street to follow the object, then returned for his camera but was unable to get a photo. He was surprised to realize that no one else had come outside to investigate the loud throbbing sounds. Three nights later, on September 4th, they saw the craft and heard the throbbing-sounds again at 11:00 PM. They decided to remain inside in the security of their home. Thanks to Dave Hagemeister NACOMM: http://www.nacomm.org/sighting/1999/9909leny.htm NEW JERSEY LIGHTS CLIFTON -- Shelly Jaffe reports that on August 11, 1999, she saw round white bright lights at 8:30 PM. Shelly reported the lights were the size of about six airplanes put together. There was no sound from this object whatsoever. Thanks to ISUR, Tom Sheets and Shelly Jaffe at rhgj@aol.com PENNSYLVANIA HUNTINGDON VALLEY -- MUFON investigator Tome Carey reports the July 23, 1999, sighting of a lighted silver craft was positively identified by an Bryn Athyn fireman eyewitness as a "blimp." Two blimps are based at Northeast Philadelphia Airport and one was airborne at the time. Thanks to Tom Carey. ARKANSAS TRIANGLE ENCOUNTER UFOSSI reports that on September 3, 1999, Mike and Henry heard humming noises. Henry saw the head of a grayish white entity 4 to 5 feet tall outside. He heard humming sound in the bedroom that moved around in a counter clockwise circle Then Henry saw a white soft ball size light floating around the house and he thought he saw another alien. Mike did not see the alien or the light. They went outside and both saw four flashing colored lights in the sky about 50 feet apart on a hovering triangle shaped craft. The object was about 200 feet wide and moved slowly towards them. We started to back away from the craft as it approached and then it just disappeared. Thanks to Billy Dee UFOSSI@ufossi.org alucard90@webtv.net ROSWELL, NEW MEXICO INVESTIGATION CONTINUES Tom Carey and Don Schmitt have just returned from another research trip to Roswell. Along with local investigators, Dennis Balthaser of Roswell and Nina Coleman of Albuquerque, the team continues to proactively research the most famous UFO case of all time. New witnesses continue to be located and interviewed. A former government person recalls having to vacate his employment area in Northern Virginia for one day many years ago to allow the wreckage of a crashed UFO to be moved out and relocated. Renewed focus is being placed upon the events in the Corona area as opposed to farther southeast of Roswell. One full day was spent in the high desert trying to locate the exact crash site. They believe that the true crash site was closer to the Brazil Ranch than the so-called "Corn site" -- Hub Corn Ranch located about 35 miles northwest of Roswell. Other new revelations will be announced in upcoming reports. Thanks to Tom Carey Tcarey@aol.com NEVADA UFO VIDEO NAVAL AIR STATION FALLON � On August 29, 1999, Chris Miller and his client Syena Sowden were on a video shoot on the desert three miles away from the base at 6:30 PM. Syena saw the UFO first. Chris states, "I was already holding the camcorder, so I just pointed it towards the UFO." It was traveling extremely fast, perhaps 600 mph at around 30,000 feet. The object was a cigar shaped craft. Close examination of the video, reveals two plasmas can be seen. Thanks to Chris Miller. COLLEGE COURSE IN UFOs John A. Logan College in Carterville, Illinois is offering the course. "UFOs: An Alien Connection?" The course will examine the history of the UFO phenomenon and speculate on alien life. It's a continuing education course, taught on the Internet. The cost for the 7 week class is $15.00. See http://instruction.jal.cc.il.us/ps999 CALIFORNIA REDLANDS -- Sharon Warren writes, my personal interest in UFOs began in 1968, when my in-laws had a UFO encounter. At the time I was working for the local newspaper. Dr. Seff, a professor from the University of Redlands, came to the paper and asked to run a story regarding UFO sightings in the area. He and a team of other university professors were conducting investigations for the USAF's Project Blue Book. My mother-in-law contacted Dr. Seff who came out with his team and interviewed her. I was at the interview and spoke with one of the professors. He told me that the USAF had obtained a piece of a crashed UFO from the Mexican government that had been analyzed at the University of Colorado. It contained 100% magnesium but when I related this story to Stanton Friedman he informed me it was not magnesium but manganese, and there was no way to 100% purify the substance in 1969. He also relayed to me how the UFO had been picked up on radar over Texas and chased by a USAF jet into Mexico. As the jet's pilot approached the UFO, he noted it was wobbling uncontrollably and crashed in Mexico. A second UFO appeared to be coming to its aid? The pilot then tried to pursue the second UFO, but it took off at high speed. I looked forward to the conclusions of Project Blue Book knowing that the USAF had "proof" of the existence of UFOs. When their final conclusion was made public, they stated they had found no proof of the existence of UFOs. I knew then that they were conducting a cover up and I wondered why? Thanks to: Sharon Warren swarren487@aol.com WASHINGTON FLYING TRIANGLE AUBURN -- On September 8, 1999, Christopher Montgomery writes, "We saw a triangular UFO near the UFO Resource Center." Around 8:40 PM, I was working late when Matt came busting into my office to grab the binoculars. Five minutes later we heard the roar of a huge helicopter flying over about ten feet above our roof. Chris ran outside and Matt said, "I want you to take a look at something!" I studied an object with three lights tilted at a 25-degree angle behind the helicopter. One red light was on top in the center. "I'll be damned! I think it's a UFO." It moved with a zigzag motion maneuver, in a classic UFO stair-step. It was shaped in a classic triangle UFO which everyone in Auburn and Kent had been reporting for years. It stayed in our area a good 20 minutes. It would fly southwest back northeast without turning. A third witness MM came out to watch. She examined the object for several minutes and was visibly shaken by the UFO. It was 9:00 PM, and we observed it for another fifteen minutes as object's body would turn while in one spot. The object's lights did funny things and breezed over me, very faintly illuminating the surrounding area. I watched it go north up the valley level with the crest of our hill. The craft was very thin and had three distinctive lights one on each point of the triangle. It was a cream or beige color dimly illuminated. A power failure to a diesel generator that operates the pump for the town's drinking water occurred simultaneously. Thanks to Christopher Montgomery UFO Resource Center (U.F.O.R.C.) newsletter: http://www.angelfire.com/wa/UFORC CANADA CROP CIRCLES NEILBURG -- Paul Anderson the editor of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada reports a large new crop formation in Saskatchewan. Ten circles were found in a wheat field on September 3, 1999, by Dave Robertson. Three "arms" of circles come out from a larger central circle. The center circle is about 35 feet in diameter, the others range from 4 feet to 22 feet. The "top" two circles and the center circle are clockwise, the others are all counterclockwise, all with very neat swirling and flattening of the crop. This is the seventh Canadian report for 1999, and the first this year from Saskatchewan usually the center of activity. Ray attempted to take pictures but could not get it to function properly. Thanks to: Paul Anderson CPR-Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html SURREY -- August 20, 1999, 2:00 AM A couple stepped outside their home and observed a white light traveling slowly north to south. It came to a halt in the eastern sky. No sound was apparent. The "object" was observed through binoculars for a period of 40 minutes. One of the witnesses said the object appeared to have two large lights with three perimeter lights, and a blue light around the middle. One noted oddity was that the attached lights seemed to circle the larger lights in a propeller-like motion. The object was still in the sky when the couple retired. VANCOUVER - August 23, 1999, The witness spotted some strange lights near the power lines on Grouse Mountain at 10:30 PM. The area has no road. The lights were blue, purple, orange and green, and pulsating. The lights went up, stopped, then went down and sideways -- far too fast for a helicopter. They appeared to be attached to the perimeter of an object the size of "the roof of a small house." The witness reported seeing the same, or similar, object on August 25, 26 and 28. His wife also witnessed the object. Louise A. Lowry oliver2849@home.com "World Of The Strange Weekly Newsletter" UFO*BC www.ufobc.org NORTHERN IRELAND UFOs ARMAGH -- Miles Johnston reports during August since the night of the eclipse we have had five nights of UFO sightings. The Armagh Planetarium and local police stations received many calls from 2300 hours to 0400 hours each night from the Lough Neagh/ Mid Ulster area. Large rings of light, with inner rings were seen over a several hundred square mile area. They may have been unusually bright Aurora Borealis. Groups flying discs flying in formation were reported. Dr. Barnet of the Armagh Planetarium reported a USAF Flying AWACS aircraft was escorted, or accompanied by two red Flying Triangle aircraft. These flew over Northern Ireland at only 4,000 feet. He was unable to come up with an explanation for the other sightings. The AWACS, and the rays of strange lighting effects, over the southern sky, were reported by highly qualified observers, with good astronomical night time experience. Thanks to Miles Johnston TMilesJ@compuserve.com THRONE COUNTY -- Eugene Mc Namee writes that, "I was abducted tonight September 2, 1999." This is not the first time, but this time it was different. "There were other humans there (at least they looked human) working with the aliens." "They dragged me out of bed and there was a buzzing in my head that I heard while I was abducted." Thanks to Eugene Mc Namee sunnydale@hellmouth.club24.co.uk TURKEY EARTHQUAKE LIGHTS Since the 7.8 magnitude earthquake on August 17, 1999, where over 15,000 were killed, some very strange lights are being seen all over Western Turkey. They are incredibly clear, circular or triangular in shape, white, yellow, red and blue colored, remain visible in the sky for 5 to 20 minutes, following a materializing-dematerializing pattern. The funny thing is it became a routine thing as they have been showing up two or three times a week. They became an inevitable component of the TV news and media. Furthermore, just before the quake, the bottom of the sea in Izmit went red and the sea temperature went up to 40-45 degrees C. However, there are no underwater volcano's in the Sea of Marmara! Starting two days before the quake, hundreds of fish, crabs and other sea life forms died and not naturally! Somehow, they were burned!!!!! The fish nets of the fishermen were burned and we have several rock and stone samples from the sea, which went black in color. TUVPO (Turkish UFO and Paranormal Organization) is cooperating with the Smithsonian Institute and a few universities in the US. We already sent them some rock and burned fishnet samples, upon their request. Folks at TUVPO will hopefully run a spectrum analysis on the video tapes. Some fishermen are also saying that they witnessed an explosion under the sea. Fireballs, strange lights, sightings never ended in Turkey. At the same time more quakes with smaller scales are still ongoing in a wide range of area. As you know Greece was hit by a 5.9 quake a couple of days ago. Thanks to HAKAN "konac@pop3.ada.net.tr FLYING TRIANGLES AND GIANTS RETURN TO ISRAEL Barry Chamish reports the summer of 1999, saw the triumphant return of flying triangular formations over Israel. As always, their appearance was greeted with video cameras to solidly document them. On July 22, a triangular craft was spotted in the cities of Tsfat and Yokneam at 7:30 PM. It was videotaped in both places. A professional photographer Rafi Malka was phoned and video taped it from his home in Acceded. He earned the distinction of being the first Israeli to videotape two separate UFOs. He then phoned his nephew Doron Cohen in Yavne, who spread the word in that city that a UFO was coming. Among those he contacted was professor Rami Shkalim, who has a Ph.D. in both physics and philosophy and is currently a professor of Kabbala at Bar Ilan University. He was one of over two hundred people who viewed the craft until it disappeared at 12:30 AM. He had just purchased professional equipment, a Sony 320 zoom video camera that recorded an absolutely brilliant ten minute videotape of the craft. The craft had two silvery lights, both surrounded by a perfectly circular red aura twice their size. When the craft seems to turn a triangle of lights is visible. Then the craft becomes two lights, which emit spirally turning lights, like twisting fireworks, before the craft disappears to the west. He took the courageous step of going public with his videotape on the popular television program, "Good Morning Israel." The TV's host said, "This film is too weird to be written off as a planet or anything else we know." The fact that the UFO appeared on Tish B'av follows the pattern of UFO incidents falling on Jewish holy days. Photos at http://members.tripod.com/~ufoisrael. Thanks to Barry Chamois ISRAEL RETURN OF THE BIBLICAL GIANTS? Jenny Rand's reports that along with the sightings, the Anakim or Refaim, the giants of the Bible are returning to Israel today. There are only two periods of recorded history when giants were reported in Israel. In biblical days from the time of the Flood to the ascension of King David, and since 1993 in modern Israel. The case for the return of giants to Israel is airtight. The giants thoughtfully chose reliable contactees as witnesses, and have allowed their craft to be filmed and left in their wake ample physical evidence. Jenny filmed a documentary this summer about the giants with a film crew from California. They had already filmed in Voronezh, where they got some fascinating new data on the l989 giant sightings, and flew to the UK from Israel where they had researched the cases in this article. My task was to piece stories together of giant entity cases and assess possible origins for these entities in the scheme of things. A one hour Discovery documentary will air next April. Thanks to Jenny Randles SOUTH AFRICA JS Hugo reports I have followed all the reports that have been rolling in from witnesses, debunkers, verifiers and speculators. The whole situation reminds me of the event that played itself out years ago in this very manner when Sky Lab fell from orbit. I personally witnessed the spectacle of the 'alleged reentry,' late at night (September 9, 1999), driving along a deserted road in South Africa. There was time to stop the vehicle and get out to look. I saw exactly the type of display reported by everyone in Utah and Nevada. The descriptions of maneuvering objects that doubled back on themselves was a characteristic that led me to believe that I had just witnessed UFO activity. I related my story to my family on arriving at home, yeah, yeah, nice, goodnight. Only to have the morning paper shoved under my nose when awoke, halfway down the front page was three inches long column tucked to the left. It declared that the 200 calls that were received concerning the sighting, was nothing more than a space station burning up. I had to accept this reasoning, yet somehow I don't believe a word of it. The display lasted too long, longer than a meteorite fall, it looked more like a cosmic dog fight between fast moving craft. There were flashes of weapons being discharged, bobbing and weaving flaming objects. Some of the objects seemed to regroup before changing direction and then doubling back to disappear into the distance at incredible speed. This all took two to three minutes covering a large arc of the night sky. The questions are would this reentry be visible in South Africa, if it also occurred over Australia and the US? Thanks to JS Hugo catman@yebo.co.za. Editor's Note: Heavy UFO activity was also reported in the Tampa, Florida area. Space Command noted about 70 spent rocket boosters or stages disintegrate in the atmosphere each year. A Russian SL-12 rocket booster, item # 25761 was falling. The official explanations may hide UFO activity. TRIANGLE UFO SIGHTED IN SYDNEY AUSTRALIA. CRONULLA -- Barry Taylor reports that on September 6, 1999, local Police had received two calls at 3:00 AM from independent witnesses of a large "Flying Triangle" hovering over the ocean just offshore of Southern Sydney. The Triangle shaped craft had yellow/orange lights on each corner. Many people had been watching the Whale christened "Alex" for the last four days off Cronulla, and "I am wondering if they're interested in the whale as well? Thanks to Alan Craddock and Barry Taylor stingray@nor.com.au. The Australian Research Network reports that on September 13, 1999, they were receiving UFO reports from all over Australia. Three people saw UFO in Victoria. Trevor saw one in Perth, Meg in ACT, Albert in NSW, and one in Perth. Thanks to ARN at: tkbnetw@fan.net.au (Keith Basterfield) AIR VICTORY MUSEUM UFO exhibit continues to grow thanks to David Mossey and his son who built a magnetism display showing various types of magnetic rotation and how electrical current is used to over come gravity. We also wish to thank Pat Marcattilio for his donation of a UFO display. This weekend there will be an exciting Air Show at the South Jersey Regional Airport in Medford, New Jersey. GET THE BEST REALTORS and HELP UFO RESEARCH As a special aid to our readers, we can provide you with the best real estate experts in your area at no cost to you. If you obtain your own agent, you may not know how long have they been in the business? And how good a producer are they? I can provide free relocation information and top agents from the largest and most respected real estate firms. If you are planning to sell or buy a home and would like a top flight real estate agent e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com or call 609 654-0020. Please provide your name, phone number, address, price, and location. U.S. GOVERNMENT UFO PROOF RELEASED: Audio tapes of a genuine UFO Alert at Edwards Air Force base and studied by the Foreign Technology Division at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, are now available for distribution to the public. Lunar Astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell was at Edwards the night the UFO chase occurred. The 6th person to walk on the moon said, "The night it happened I investigated it myself and this was a real event." Sam Sherman's audio documentary tape called THE EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER on the night of October 7, 1965, uses the actual voice recordings provided by the Air Force. During this event 12 high tech luminous UFOs invade secure air space and came down low over the runways at Edwards AFB. Tower operator Sgt. Chuck Sorrels spotted them and notified the Air Defense Command. Sgt. Sorrels is heard on the original tapes and in a new segment where he verifies the event as it is heard on the archival recordings. The UFOs are described and a decision is made to launch F-106 fighter interceptors. Your there for an important part of UFO history. Hear it for yourself, its the best UFO tape ever made. Tape cost is $14.95 each plus $2.00 for shipping -- total $16.95 --(for overseas orders- out of US - add $6.00 shipping cost - total - $20.95) you can send either a personal check or money order to: Independent International Pictures Corp, Box 565, Dept. GF, Old Bridge, New Jersey 08857. MUFON JOURNAL For more detailed investigative reports subscribe by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or E-mail Mufon@aol.com. Filer's Files Copyright 1999 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on their Websites provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. Send your letters to me at Majorstar@aol.com. If you wish to keep your name confidential please so state.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: C.E.: 'Strange Lights' in Turkey From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:07:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:23:56 -0400 Subject: Re: C.E.: 'Strange Lights' in Turkey >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:12:15 -0400 >From: Steven W. Kaeser" <steve@KONSULTING.COM> >Subject: 'Strange Lights' in Turkey >To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >I didn't read the recent postings on strange lights in Turkey, >and hope this isn't a duplication. I was forwarded this post to >a Nostradamus 'list', and thought I pass it along: >------- >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:29:59 -0400 >From: "konac@pop3.ada.net.tr" <konac@pop3.ada.net.tr> >Reply-To: konac@ada.net.tr >To: NOSTRADAMUS <NOSTRADAMUS@listbot.com> >Subject: Strange Lights >NOSTRADAMUS - ><http://esoterism.com/nostradamus>http://esoterism.com/nostradamus/ >Hello everyone, >Since Red mentioned about the strange lights seen in South >Oregon, I also would like to give you some info about what's >going on here in Turkey. Well, ever since the earthquake, some >very strange lights are clearly seen all over Western Turkey. >They are incredibly clear, circular or triangular in shape, >white, yellow, red and blue colored, remain visible in the sky >for 5 to 20 minutes, following a materializing-dematerializing >pattern. The funny thing is it became a routine thing as they >have been showing up twice or three times a week recently. They >became an inevitable component of the TV news and media. >Furthermore, just before the quake, the bottom of the sea in >Izmit went red and the sea temperature went up to 40-45 degrees >C. However, there are no underwater volcanos in the Sea of >Marmara!!! Starting two days before the quake, hundreds of fish, >crabs and other sea life forms died and not naturally! Somehow, >they were burned!!!!! The fish nets of the fishermen were burned >and we have several rock and stone samples from the sea, which >went black in color. TUVPO (Turkish UFO and Paranormal >Organization) is co-operating with the Smithsonian Institute and >a few universities in the U.S..We already sent them some rock >and burned fishnet samples, upon their request. Folks at TUVPO >will hopefully run a spectrum analysis on the video tapes. Some >fishermen are also saying that they witnessed an explosion under >the sea. And then guess what. Fireballs, strange lights, >sightings never ended in Turkey. At the same time more quakes >with smaller scales are still ongoing in a wide range of area. >As you know Greece was hit by a 5.9 quake a couple of days ago. >Hundreds of other quakes vary from 3.5 to 5.2 in Turkey. They >can't be the aftershock quakes because they occur on totally >different fault lines. >The following are the possibilities that are discussed here as >regards to those lights: >1. UFOs >2. Anomalous Lumnious Phenomena (Earth Lights or Earthquake >Lights) >3. Sudden release of methane gas from the surface of the Earth >as a result of a major quake. (Not likely though) >4. Unknown underwater volcanic activity I was recently reading 'The UFO Report' by Timothy Good and noticed an interesting side note to the events that have occurred in Turkey, as far as the earthquake/UFO phenomenon is concerned. In Chapter 5, titled 'Testimony from Africa', page 111, Cynthia Hind mentions a precognitive dream of a woman abductee named Jenny. The excerpt follows, "Jenny recalls being taken over a choppy sea toward an octagonal building with large windows, floating on top of the water. She was taken inside where there was a hive of activity monitored by people dressed in blue." (Notice the mention here of "a choppy sea", in relation to what role the ocean is playing in the above quoted e-mail.) " A beautiful woman (obviously humanoid) came to Jenny and explained that "they" were watching our Earth. A young man, to whom she pointed, was monitoring an earthquake condition in Turkey. Jenny was distressed. She says, "Although they were very kind, some sort of manipulation was going on, in our own interests, they said, and helping with the overpopulation of our planet." Although this interview was in the late 80's I wonder if there is any correlation to what is currently occurring in Turkey. I would like to get some feedback/opinions and/or more details from the members of this list who may be familiar with this case from Cynthia Hind, or even better from Cynthia herself, if she happens to monitor this list. Thanks in advance, T. Lemire -- "Know that there is a Creator-Sustainer, who has made Himself knowable to Creation in direct proportion to the creatures ability to comprehend and respond." - Taken from the Andreasson Legacy by Raymond E. Fowler
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 CPR-Canada News: Another Midale, Saskatchewan From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:44:29 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:21:02 -0400 Subject: CPR-Canada News: Another Midale, Saskatchewan CPR-Canada News News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Another Crop Formation at Midale, Saskatchewan September 18, 1999 _____________________________ Editor: Paul Anderson _____________________________ Preliminary Report - September 18 By Paul Anderson Another crop circle formation has been found near Midale, Saskatchewan, the second after the first one reported on September 14. Initial report received from Nancy Talbott of the BLT Research Team. Formation consists of three circles in a straight line, each about 10-12 feet in diametre and spaced equally about the same distance, in wheat, south of Midale (first formation is just north of Midale). First found a couple weeks ago by the farmer while combining, assuming them to be "made by kids", although he is now not so sure about that, after also reporting UFO sightings. Very similar to one of the Midale formations from 1998. Further details, field report and images when available. This is the eleventh formation reported now for this year. There is also an article, with beautiful aerial photo, of the first Midale formation in the September 16 edition of the Leader-Post newspaper (Regina, SK) and an article on the Neilburg formation in this past week's Western Producer newspaper. Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada _____________________________ Circle Phenomena in Canada Report Archive 1999: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html A reminder for all Canadian subscribers / readers - your assistance is welcome and needed - ANY reports of other possible circles this year, please do let us know as soon as possible! See Reporting and Field Research Guidelines on the web site for more information: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reporting.html REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522 _____________________________ CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International), and is published periodically or as breaking news develops, with the latest news and information and is available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or "unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.c CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions. Forward all correspondence to: CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Office Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 � Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 1999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:58:29 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:29:15 -0400 Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:31:36 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> >Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> >>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:58:16 +0100 ><snippage> >G'day Ms Randles, M'am.... >>I wanted to advise that I did a radio programme in Sheffield >>with Dr Mitton today. She was charming, well informed and >>objective. It'd be a really neat start for such a charming and objective person to avoid tearing down every single sighting and every single witness to a sighting, every UFO researcher and every perceived abductee by claiming that all of that which they've perceived can be explained by natural, man made phenomena. What do you think Ms. Randles? >>The press stories have not done her justice. I >>believe she will be a very useful ally to British Ufology. Yes, >>she is a sceptic but she is far from a debunker, has read the >>evidence, understands it better than many ufologists I know and >>is someone worth keeping on side. She tells me she is free of >>research committments and is thus willing to take the big risk >>she perceives it to be to her career to talk about UFOs in >>public. With all due respect to you and to Dr. Mitton, there is no risk whatever in making statements such as the one repeated below and mentioned above. Is there? No risk. Nope! None. >>Its a start and I think we should cultivate rather than >>pooh pooh this scientist. Perhaps she should not pooh pooh the witnesses and researchers. I would suggest that the start be on the side of Dr. Mitton. For a certainty, this was a bad start for her. Not a good way to make friends and influence us goofy crazies. No way at all. Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses? >She might well be charming and well informed but then, there's >the matter of this section in the press release that Stig >posted: >--- >"Since then interest in UFOs had grown to become a worldwide >obsession, said Dr Mitton. But she is convinced every sighting >can be explained by natural or man-made phenomena." >--- >I would not call her entirely "objective". Can she even tell the >difference between geese and pelicans? Well, that part's OK, Don. After all, she wasn't there. Or was she? Conspiracy or Coincidence? You decide! >I think it's great that a credentialed scientist jumps into the >fray. Let her roll her up sleeves, stow away her pre-conceived >notions and get to work. Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 01:22:14 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:47:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 02:41:15 -0400 >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >>Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:15:19 +0100 <snip> >>Has a vet ever said that in his/her view "aliens" are >>responsible for 'mutilations' and if so why is he/she still >>practicing? >>That should get people going..... hopefully not 'mooing'. >If you had enough balls to take a closer look at the >mutilations, you'd find that those same ufologists who are >pointing fingers at extraterrestrials as the main cause of these >animal deaths are, it seems to me, a lot closer to the mark than >those who say "predatory attacks by a loonie or a crazed >animal". >There is more circumstantial evidence for the ET explanation >than there is for any other 'theory'. >Lack of human tracks in wet soil or snow where some of the >animals were found; reports of unusual lights in the vicinity >before and after a mutilation...all these are pretty good >indications that something unearthly is going on! Open your eyes >and let the evidence speak for itself. >Michel M. Deschamps Michel, Neither a typically paired male reproductive gland that produces sperm and that in most mammals is contained within the scrotum at sexual maturity, nor one of the typically paired essential female reproductive organs that produce eggs and in vertebrates females, are lacking, it's more like sense, the common variety, which is in short supply in all too many cases. Perhaps fewer hormones and greater gray matter is the answer? Nah! That's asking way too much. Dr. J. Jaime Gesundt
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Timothy Good "Timothy Cooper Behind MJ-12 From: Anthony Chippendale <ufo-net@clara.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:55:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:17:06 -0400 Subject: Timothy Good "Timothy Cooper Behind MJ-12 I have just returned from day 2 of this years Leeds International UFO Conference hosted by UFO Magazine (UK) and I can exclusively reveal to you that the MJ-12 documents are fakes. This afternoon leading UFO researcher Timothy Good gave an interactive lecture with the audience and revealed that he thinks, with proof, that Timothy Cooper is behind the MJ-12 Documents. I will have more details in a full report to follow. Also, UFO Magazine have shown a small clips of what has to be the best evidence of UFOs ever - this footage, which is just a small sample of what will be shown tomorrow (Sunday) shows hundreds of white, intelligently controlled UFOs flying through space and the upper atmosphere. The UFOs were filmed during several space shuttle missions. This footage is 100 times better than the previous space shuttle footage. To stay up to date with developments, visit UFO Net at http://www.ufo-net.clara.net Anthony Chippendale, UFO Net Manager, http://www.ufo-net.clara.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Stunning Discs Sighted Twice On Long Island From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 03:46:30 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:38:18 -0400 Subject: Stunning Discs Sighted Twice On Long Island Source: "alt.alien.visitors". Stig *** From: "info" <info@internetofficenews.com> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Stunning Discs Sighted Twice Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:13:22 GMT Stunning Dics Sighted Twice On Long Island LEVITTOWN, LONG ISLAND - Dave Hagemeister reports on September 1, 1999, Ed G., a well educated married professional, heard a very unusual throbbing-sound that reverberated throughout his home. It was a rapidly cycling hum or whine-sound; that fluctuated in volume. The strange pulsating gong sound became louder and awakened Ed's wife at 10:00 PM. She called out loudly: "Ed, do you hear that strange noise?" She parted the bedroom curtains and saw an eerie-blue-glow in their backyard. Ed cautiously opened their front-door; to see a huge disk-shaped UFO, the size of a commercial-airliner, hovering 130 feet high just a few yards above the water-tower several blocks away. The object was very dark and dull circular disc that tapered from its thin edge all around its perimeter to seven feet thick at its center. The UFO tilted down toward Ed at a 45-degree angle. Ed could see a straight line of a dozen steadily glowing blue-lights, extending from the lower edge directly across its midsection, to the edge furthest from him. There was a larger bright blinking blue light at farthest edge of the object. His wife ran to see the object move slowly towards the southeast. Ed ran barefoot out of the house and down the street to follow the object, then returned for his camera but was unable to get a photo. He was surprised to realize that no one else had come outside to investigate the loud throbbing sounds. Three nights later, on September 4th, they saw the craft and heard the throbbing-sounds again at 11:00 PM. They decided to remain inside in the security of their home. More on webpage... -- Michael Owens THE UNDERGROUND NEWS http://www.internetofficenews.com http://www.quickcomtech.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:57:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:19:32 -0400 Subject: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 Hello All, Today at 3:47 pm there was a white, spherical object hovering directly over my house. It remained motionless for approximately 45 seconds and then it (very) slowly began to move off in a South Easterly direction. I managed to get 5 pictures/photographs using an (old) 35mm SLR Pentax with a 500mm focal length telephoto lens and remote cable release. (To minimize shutter and handling vibration) I used 400 ASA Kodak film at f/11. As soon as the photos are developed I'll post any 'good shots' I may have gotten. I 'think' I got a few really good ones! I also made a short 1 minute + long 'video' of the object using a Sony Handycam Video 8 camera with the digital zoom maxed out at 24X. The first pic is a single frame capture from the videotape. The second one is an enlargement of the object that was captured in the frame. What you see is what I saw, (with naked eye and with cameras) It was a luminous white sphere. And fairly large too, (if) it was as close as it appeared visually. The photographs I took will be better to use for size and distance determination because I also captured the 'tines' of a nearby television roof antenna along with the object. This was no balloon. It was -big- and it was able to stop and hover motionless. I have asked before, and I'll ask again. Does anyone have any idea what these white spheres are? I am a highly skilled observer, (a couple of folks on this list will attest to that having spent some time with me skywatching) this thing moved in an anomalous way, (hovered in one spot and then moving in a slow straight path away from me) It was -not- a balloon, or a bird, or an airplane. Believe me, I know the difference. I have seen and recorded these objects for several years now. To date, no one can tell me 'what' they are. Bruce? Anybody? Have you seen pix or video of these white spheres before? It's the same stuff that Tommy King shoots in Arizona, others record over Mexico and many other countries around the world. My shots of these objects are not unique or singular. Anyone who archives or records sightings is welcome to add this report to their database. The pix are not to be copied or reposted without my permission. I include them as corroboration for my sighting report and 'FYI' for my fellow UpDates list members only. Please don't let me find them splattered all over the web. I don't know what these things are and I don't want anyone 'speculating' for me without my knowledge. "Some folks" on the web have no scruples that way. Enjoy, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:19:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:19:22 -0400 Subject: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:57:58 -0400 To: updates@globalserve.net From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 Hello All, Today at 3:47 pm there was a white, spherical object hovering directly over my house. It remained motionless for approximately 45 seconds and then it (very) slowly began to move off in a South Easterly direction. I managed to get 5 pictures/photographs using an (old) 35mm SLR Pentax with a 500mm focal length telephoto lens and remote cable release. (To minimize shutter and handling vibration) I used 400 ASA Kodak film at f/11. As soon as the photos are developed I'll post any 'good shots' I may have gotten. I 'think' I got a few really good ones! I also made a short 1 minute + long 'video' of the object using a Sony Handycam Video 8 camera with the digital zoom maxed out at 24X. The first pic is a single frame capture from the videotape. The second one is an enlargement of the object that was captured in the frame. What you see is what I saw, (with naked eye and with cameras) It was a luminous white sphere. And fairly large too, (if) it was as close as it appeared visually. The photographs I took will be better to use for size and distance determination because I also captured the 'tines' of a nearby television roof antenna along with the object. This was no balloon. It was -big- and it was able to stop and hover motionless. I have asked before, and I'll ask again. Does anyone have any idea what these white spheres are? I am a highly skilled observer, (a couple of folks on this list will attest to that having spent some time with me skywatching) this thing moved in an anomalous way, (hovered in one spot and then moving in a slow straight path away from me) It was -not- a balloon, or a bird, or an airplane. Believe me, I know the difference. I have seen and recorded these objects for several years now. To date, no one can tell me 'what' they are. Bruce? Anybody? Have you seen pix or video of these white spheres before? It's the same stuff that Tommy King shoots in Arizona, others record over Mexico and many other countries around the world. My shots of these objects are not unique or singular. Anyone who archives or records sightings is welcome to add this report to their database. The pix are not to be copied or reposted without my permission. I include them as corroboration for my sighting report and 'FYI' for my fellow UpDates list members only. Please don't let me find them splattered all over the web. I don't know what these things are and I don't want anyone 'speculating' for me without my knowledge. "Some folks" on the web have no scruples that way. Enjoy, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: The Challenge From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 03:07:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:32:29 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:24:51 -0700 (PDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0400 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: The Challenge >>Hello All, >>Some of you that have been following UpDates (for longer than >>many of us care to remember) are aware that I have been >>struggling to get an investigation by independent experts of any >>'physical material' (i.e.; evidence of foreign objects in the >>bodies of the abductees, the 'writing' samples that some >>investigators have gathered, unusual or unexplained marks and >>scars etc.) I have even repeatedly offered myself up to these >>"experts" (to no avail) as well. <snip> Jim writes: >Hi John, >I've delayed a response to this in hopes that someone on the >list whose better at keeping records and files than I am would >do it. We've all read or heard, from time to time, of various >UFO-related artifacts having been sent out for analysis. It >would be good if someone could compile as comprehensive as >possible a list of it all, since you, John, are not the first! <snip> >It really would be a contribution to get as full a compilation >of such alien retrievals as possible. This is notwithstanding >the biggest problem of often never hearing back from the >laboratories of what their findings were. I think it would be >worthwhile not to restrict the compilation just to removed >implants. Excellent idea Jim! And I agree fully that any study should go beyond just recovered 'foreign objects' and include anything and everything that could be considered potentially 'evidential.' This thing needs a strong 'leader' to see it through. Someone with the smarts, determination, and the cohones to bring it to fruition. I will do all that I can to help in such an effort. I myself am not qualified or experienced enough in such matters to do even a decent job with such an important matter. I'll get up petitions, lobby and stump for it. I'll launch a web based campaign to help garner support. But, something this big and important needs 'real leadership.' Any volunteers? Greg? Nick? Anyone? Regards to all, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Stealth Blimp From: Norio Hayakawa <GroomWatch@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:51:52 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:29:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Stealth Blimp >From: Marty Murray <bubastis@warplink.com> >To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Stealth Blimp >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:00:18 -0400 >In the September 1999 issue of Popular Mechanics magazine there >is an article entitled "Skunk Works Magic," written by Jim >Wilson. The article is basically a history of the famed Skunk >Works founded by aircraft designer Kelly Johnson, and describes >many of the cutting edge aircraft produced there. <snip> ELECTROCHROMATIC PANELS being tested at Groom Lake/AREA 51? by Norio Hayakawa: ELECTROCHROMATIC PANELS: There are quite a number of new technologies being researched, developed and tested at various leading-edge defense contractor facilities, for example, at Groom Lake/AREA 51's highly compartmentalized, multi-faceted conglomerate complexes. Besides a new generation of VTOL-based UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles - remotely-controlled surveillance platforms, some of which may be disk-shaped), there are ongoing development and testing of electrochromatic panels as part of innovations relevant to "daytime-stealth" capabilities. The electrochromatic panels are comprised of thousands of tiny sensors that function as video-cameras that take images of background scenaries, transferring them to the other panels on the other side of the aircraft. This gives the illusion that the aircraft is almost transparent. What the ground observer sees is whatever background images behind (or above) the body of the aircraft that are transposed to the "observer's" side of the body of the aircraft. For example, in a recent artist's rendition of a proposed "Stealth Blimp" (POPULAR SCIENCE - although the "panels" were not specifically mentioned, despite the fact that they would undoubtedly accomplish the effect), one can see the stars from above (and behind) the blimp, giving it an illusion of being transparent, and making detection somewhat difficult under certain conditions. That an ongoing research, development and testing of such electrochromatic panels at locations such as at Groom Lake/AREA 51 may be taking place was first suggested in an article written by aviation writer, Bill Sweetman (POPULAR SCIENCE - May of 1997). Coincidentally, after that article (suggesting that Groom Lake/AREA 51 was still abuzz with various projects) appeared on POPULAR SCIENCE of May, 1997, the June, 1997 issue of another magazine, POPULAR MECHANICS, in turn, strangely came out with an article by Jim Wilson suggesting that Groom Lake/AREA 51's operations were transferred to Green River missile launch complex in Utah. This was the beginning of the false rumor that AREA 51 had moved to a new location in Utah. (The Green River missile launch complex right now still appears to be an old, abandoned site, with nothing visible of any significance). Moreover, if one were to look at significant programs in Utah, attention should rather be focused on DUGWAY PROVING GROUNDS, where lots of innovative programs are ongoing, for example, the latest research on biological-chemical warfare programs as well as non-lethal weapons systems. In the meantime Nevada's Groom Lake/AREA 51 conglomerate complex is active as ever with new programs. It is estimated that as of the summer of 1999, there are still anywhere from 1800 to 2300 defense-contractor employees constantly at work in highly compartmentalized projects. HOLOGRAPHIC PROJECTIONS AND HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE MAXIMIZATION TECHNOLOGY Research, development and testing is also taking place in another related aspect of electrochromatic panels, namely, the attachment of holographic projection devices capable of causing image size distortions, such as distorting the "size" of the aircraft "observed" by ground observers. For example, with this technology a black traingular aircraft, for example, could be seen to be three or four times its actual size to the ground observer. This type of technology is part of the Department of Defense (DOD)'s emphais on Psychological Operations (PSYOPS) or Psychological Warfare. Recent's years' sightings of huge black triangular aircraft (such as ovver Phoenix, Arizona in 1997) could possibly be related to testing of such devices to observe the reactions of the observers. See: http://www.artbell.com/images/artsufo.jpg Black Triangular craft (artist's image) and http://www.pufori.org/articles/pentagon_psyop.htm Pentagon's new information War + PsyOps' Holographic Technology Please share this with everyone. Thanks! -from Norio http://hometown.aol.com/norioa51s4/myhomepage/resume.html Electrochromatic Panels at Groom Lake/AREA 51?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Tim Cooper Exposed By Tim Good From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:07:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:44:12 -0400 Subject: Tim Cooper Exposed By Tim Good Dear All, The only highlight at yesterday's pretty awful UFO Magazine (UK) Conference (Day 1) was where UK researcher-author Tim Good blew the 'new' batch of MJ-12 documents out of the water. In his presentation, that last just 25 minutes (he then did an impromptu Q+A session), he exposed Tim Cooper, the US researcher and associate of Joe Firmage, in an excellent display of detailed and ground-breaking research that almost had me reviewing my position on England's best-known Ufologist - until he mentioned George Adamski and how he believed that the Silver Spring footage of 1965 was "real". With an impressive stage presence, Good noted that in 1991 he had exchanged letters with Mr. Cooper and latterly had become very concerned about the "new" MJ-12 documents being promoted, to an extent, by the Woods, zillionaire Joe Firmage and others. (There is also a suggestion that Cooper has gained financially from the documents but I'm not clear on this point.) The evidence is damning, to say the least. Here it is, compressed. I have to apologise for not having taken notes. My colleague Karen did, but she's still in Leeds today. (I think she wants to ask Dr. Leir some difficult questions about his removal of supposed implants.....) 1 - The typewriter used by Cooper to write to Good eight years ago is almost exactly similar to that which produced some of the new documents. 2 - The style and indentation of paragraphs is exactly the same. 3 - The classifications on the documents rule out their being genuine; on one page "Restricted - Not for Public Inspection" (!), followed by the next page, "Top Secret" (!). 4 - Stanton Friedman has discovered that portions of the "new" MJ-12 material are lifted _directly_ from other documents to which Cooper has had access. In one case, material written by a General Wedemeyer. 5 - Part of the document number on one page, 1206, is the same as Cooper's Post Office Box address. 6 - Letters from the now clearly non-existent Salina Cantwheel, daughter of the mythical Thomas Cantwheel, were written in exactly the same handwriting as Tim Coopers! And so it goes on. A pretty devastating expose of material most of us knew was a fake - but not necessarily who by! Obviously the spelling mistakes ('celestrial', 'feuls' etc. etc.) ruled their being real out as did the fact that there was/is no provenance for these documents in the first place. Good, although paying tribute to Stanton Friedman, now believes that MJ-12 Mark 1 (the Shandera package) is a fake and that all subsequent documents are fake, including what he described as the most 'impressive' one featured on page 467 of 'Beyond Top Secret'. This is also written in the same style as Cooper's 1991 letters to Good..... Good also says that the Mexican video footage is unconvincing. Watch out for my report - 'Space Dust And The March Of The Unnamed Soldiers' - on possibly the worst UFO Conference ever - coming after my next drink of tea! Tim Matthews.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 NASA Footage At Leeds Conference - Not What It From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:10:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:54:02 -0400 Subject: NASA Footage At Leeds Conference - Not What It Dear All, At Day 1 of yesterday's UFO Magazine (UK) Conference Graham Birdsall showed some NASA TV footage that he'd obtained after sending his colleague Russ Callaghan on a mission to meet 'a source' in Canada. Later, Birdsall claimed that he had 'smoking gun' evidence that would embarrass NASA and prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we are not alone and that 'craft' are regularly captured on Shuttle cameras. Perhaps one of the reasons Graham and co. needed to look to Canada is that Britain's #1 researcher of NASA footage, and satellite communications expert, has been working with me for over two years in our own investigation into claims surrounding NASA footage and the supposed 'cover-up' it's involved in. From the 10-15 minute sample of footage shown yesterday several things are clear; 1 - The objects seen by the cameras are a variety of space debris and dust particles. (We're not convinced that they are ice crystals.) 2 - When the booster rockets on the Shuttle fire, particles around it are obviously dislodged. This fact has not, to my knowledge, been mentioned by the supporters of the NASA conspiracy theory... 3 - The proponents of the conspiracy theory appear to be unaware that the Shuttle cameras are often out of focus, that objects much nearer to the cameras can seem further away _and_ that because low-light filters are sometimes used debris and dust passing by looks brighter than it usually would. Not to metion the sunlight that glints and reflects off the debris..... 4 - Graham Birdsall claims that his 'Canadian' source has 'hundreds of hours' of footage. This is not particularly unusual; John Locker, a top UK Satellite Communications Expert - has similar hours of material including all the relevant STS-82 footage. 5 - In fact, John was contacted some months ago by a man called Don who we suspect might be Graham Birdsall's 'secret' source of information - or associated with him in some way. We have in our possession a message from Don in which he requests a deal whereby John would give him the STS-82 footage with audio (that he presented at my 1997 Conference - months before anyone else!) and would get "UFOs, The Best Evidence Ever on Tape"...in return. Some swap! 6 - Graham Birdsall reportedly claimed on Friday night that NASA TV was 'off-line'. Yesterday he tried to bolster this claim and, in front of the 500 attenders to his 18th International UFO Conference, made a variety of similarly misleading claims about the footage. For a start NASA TV has not been 'taken off-line'. John gets the feed, as do others. This is covered in detail by John in issue 1 of our magazine, 'BEYOND', in an article on NASA TV where we challenge the claims of the NASA conspiracy theorists and especially Dr. Jack Kasher, who, by virtue of his position within MUFON, can hardly be seen as an independent source in terms of STS footage research. 7 - Graham Birdsall is going, apparently, to go to the world's press with this 'smoking gun' footage. He's going to hold a major press conference! I suggest that he thinks again in light of these conclusions and the underwhelming nature of the footage available. I also suggest that Ufologists find out more about the cameras used on the missions... I noted with great interest yesterday that Tim Good also found the footage to be unimpressive... Those who believe that this footage is 'evidence that we are not alone' can only do so on the basis that they believe what they are told and do not have the information to come to a sensible conclusion about it 8 - Don, the North American contact, wrote thus (with grammatical and spelling errors included): "John, I put in an order for a one hour worth of NASA video tape concerning the STS-82 event. I ordered it from Gale Frehre of NASA's video department. The time and date that I asked for was February 18, 1997, 0615 GMT to 0715 GMT. When I received the tape in the mail I noticed that they only sent me 20 minutes of footage and it was labeled as orbit 104. When I viewed it on my VCR they were indeed doing a EVA and then returned to the airlock but I did not hear any conversation out of the ordinary. I don't believe they included enough footage or the EVA I was watching was not the one we are all interested in. I am sure they engaged in more than one EVA. They may have purposely sent me the wrong EVA? Gale Frehre told me that NASA did not downlink that part I am looking for. But I know that is a lie because you have seen and heard it and so have others. Also she says that what everybody is all excited about is a few buttons on the wall (she had a defiant attitude). THERE IS A MAN OVER HERE LIVING IN NEBRASKA WHO RECORDED IT. HIS SON WHO IS IN COLLEGE TOOK THE TAPE TO COLLEGE TO LET THE PROFESSOR VIEW IT. THE PROFESSOR, HARRY JORDAN, WHO IS A FRIEND OF DR. JACK KASHER WHO ANALYZED THE STS-48 [?] FOOTAGE FOR ME. JORDAN VIEWED IT WITH MUCH INTEREST AND THEN RETURNED IT TO THE STUDENT, WHEN HARRY LATER DOWN THE ROAD TRIED TO RE-BORROW IT IN ORDER TO MAKE A TAPE, THE FATHER BALKED BECAUSE HE WAS GETTING SPOOKED ON HOW SERIOUS IT ALL WAS GETTING AND REFUSED TO LET HARRY JORDAN REBORROW IT. I would be more than happy and willing to be that person to handle and receive that tape from you to get the word out over here. I would make sure that you would get full credit of being the source of the tape. I could check the prices for transatlantic shipment and pay for the cost of the copy and perhaps a copy of that enhancement if you wish to include that. On 28th July 1907 on National Fox TV there was a special UFO program called "UFOs, the best evendience Ever on Tape." 80% OF THE NASA FOOTAGE SHOWN WAS MINE AND I SENT THAT TO THE PRODUCERS KIVIAT PRODUCTIONS WITH ONE STIPULATION AND THAT WAS THAT I WOULD GET SCROLL-UP CREDIT AT THE END OF THE SHOW FOR THE FOOTAGE THAT I SENT THEM. THEY AGREED. BUT VIEWING THE CREDIT SHOWED THEY LIED AND DID NOT GIVE ME CREDIT. Oh well. But anyway if you want this footage to be seen in the US I can di it. My NASA UFO FOOTAGES have been seen on many National UFO shows in the US. Also when I send you a money order for the cost of the STS-82 tape I can include for you a copy of the recent program "UFOs, The Best Ever Evidence On Tape" and will include at the beginning THE NEVER BEFORE SEEN APOLLO 16 SAUCER 16MM FOOTAGE FROM NEAR THE MOON. The Best, Don." If this is the same man, and he seems to have the right connections, then why all the cloak and dagger nonsense that Birdsall was putting out yesterday? None of the footage warrants the "Canadian source" having his face obscured in the UFO Magazine (UK) presentation and being given the code-name 'LILLE'. This is all quite ridiculous and my only conclusion is that Graham suspects that this kind of drama will help sell his message to the gullible. After all, the Cracoe Fell UFO was 'undeniable evidence' that we were not alone - before Andy Roberts proved this it was a reflection off some rocks. This was Quest International's first big case, and one that they hammed up to both press and public.... If Graham holds a Press Conference using the material shown yesterday I will ensure that every press agency, newspaper and outlet is presented with the actual facts of the case. This kind of stunt, where the UFO community is bombarded with claims of 'smoking guns' and 'incredible proof' have been part and parcel of 90's Ufology. It has done Ufology irreparable damage and encouraged people to believe in a variety of myths - including "alien space wars" captured on NASA Shuttle cameras! _Unless_ the footage is presented in _context_ the public will be mislead. Tim Matthews, Editor, BEYOND magazine.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Stealth Blimp From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:04:27 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:57:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Stealth Blimp >From: Marty Murray <bubastis@warplink.com> >To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Stealth Blimp >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:00:18 -0400 >In the September 1999 issue of Popular Mechanics magazine there >is an article entitled "Skunk Works Magic," written by Jim >Wilson. The article is basically a history of the famed Skunk >Works founded by aircraft designer Kelly Johnson, and describes >many of the cutting edge aircraft produced there. >However, towards the end of the article, in a paragraph entitled >"Future Planes" there is a description of a secret aircraft >called the stealth blimp. I will quote the article here: <snip> >If this aircraft is genuine, then I would assume it is fairly >slow moving and silent, and may be responsible for many UFO >reports concerning unknown triangular black craft. I have read a >number of reports recently on this list that would match its >description. I am in no way attempting to say that this vehicle >accounts for all those sightings, but there is a good chance it >may have been the cause of several of them. An interesting >possibility to ponder in any case. I've saying this for two years and at last somebody appears to be taking it seriously. See 'UFO Revelation - The Secret Technology Exposed?' Tim M.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:27:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:40:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:15:19 +0100 >>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:45:45 -0500 >>From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >>Subject: Re: Nick Pope'S Weird World - Sept '99 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >><snip> >>We must consider the possibility that animal mutilations may be >>part of some psychological program intended to impact human >>belief systems in certain ways or as part of some kind of >>psychological experiment. We must also consider the possibility >>that animal mutilations - the parts excised, procedures used, >>positions in which the animals are found, etc. - may have _no_ >>meaning whatsoever (same for crop circles) aside from their >>psychological effects on human paradigms. The problem with impacting the human belief system is that very few humans know animal mutilation exists. If it were done to frighten humans it would need to be more highly publicized. >>One important pattern in all mutilations, speculations aside, is >>the very presence of a corpse as opposed to no corpse at all. >We must also consider that in some cases; >- There _are_ loonies out there. Very sick ones at that. Maybe >they bought scalpels..... The religious cult/loonies has been disregarded years ago. >- Farmers can claim off their insurance if it's 'death by >unknown causes'. Picked this up off an insurance colleague. Yes they can, but the deductible is usually high, more that the animals value. >- Most of this seems to be happening in the USA and is pushed by >a small group of researchers who are _still_ been unable to prove >that extra-terrestrials are responsible. They are making modern >Ufology more like a sick snuff movie...not a credible research >effort. That's an unfair comment. The bottom line is that there are animals that are being tortured and killed and whether anyone likes to think it or not, they feel just like we do. So it doesn't matter who is doing it, it matters that it is being done and it needs to stop. >Has a vet ever said that in his/her view "aliens" are >responsible for 'mutilations' and if so why is he/she still >practicing? As an aside: many years ago I remember hearing about a case where a woman claimed her vehicle had been damaged by a UFO... and the insurance company paid! True story. That should set some precedent. Terry Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: UFO Over English Channel? From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:46:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:28:38 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Over English Channel? >From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFOs Filmed Over English Channel >Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:45:44 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> Dear all, >I am in possession of a remarkable camcorder video which >appears to show at least two, possibly three, unidentified >flying objects alongside a passenger jet over the English >Channel. Thanks to everyone who expressed an interest in my earlier post with regards the camcorder tape allegedly depicting UFOs shot from a 737 en route from Birmingham to Morocco. The footage has now been examined by three independent sources, who have all reached the same conclusion with regards to the origin of the images. One of these was a colleague at Sheffield University, another was aviation writer Bill Rose whose observations and opinions follow. To summarise, here is the gist of Bill Rose's email to colleague Gloria Dixon: Frankly, I'm surprised anyone would give this tape a second glance, but here are my observations. 1) I can tell immediately from the quality that the camcorder was a low band model producing a maximum of 250 lines resolution, which gives a clear guide to the limit of overall sharpness. I can also deduce that the lens was set to wide angle for the rearward shot although details of the camera, chip size and zoom lens would have been useful for further analysis. 2) The island doesn't look like Guernsey to me. (and Jersey doesn't quite match but it is nearer) It might be one of several other possibilities, but I don't have a sufficiently detailed map to tell for sure. The identity of the island would give more useful data. 3) According to the blurb, footage taken earlier/later does not show any obvious features on the aircraft window. Where is this rearward facing footage? MY OPINION With the lens set to wide angle on a camcorder, this provides the maximum range of image sharpness known as "depth of field." With a camcorder that has a very short focal length lens, the area of sharp focus is massive. (compared to an ordinary still camera) In bright conditions, it means that a tiny close-up object can be nearly as sharp as something big on the horizon. Furthermore, perspective will usually create a misleading impression of a nearby image's size, making it seem much bigger than it really is. Windows in commercial airliners are protected by a secondary plastic screens and in many cases, these become marked and scratched. It's also quite common to see cleaning marks and smears on the outside of the glass. Shooting through a double layer of non-optical quality glass/plastic at an oblique angle is an invitation to record dirt marks, minor optical defects/flare etc, and these are going to be rendered fairly clearly with a wide angle lens which provides a big depth of sharp focus. Even if there are no artifacts visible in the images made earlier or later, this might be explained by changes in the aircraft's heading and the Sun's position or the positioning of the camera. Slight repositioning (of the camera) can also make small nearby optical artifacts appear and disappear. The two small objects by the wing actually appear to move across it, suggesting parallax created by camera movement/position adjustment, which is another strong indication that nothing more than small window smudges are involved. The other possibility would be internal lens flare, which is very common with mass produced zoom lenses. However, I am inclined to rule this out as there are no bright "off-axis" lights sources visible. (ie: reflective surfaces of any note) Another aircraft or a balloon seems very unlikely to me and despite anything you might be told, the resolution of this footage is insufficient to allow any meaningful computer enhancement. If a large percentage of the passengers had seen something unusual or there had been unidentified radar returns or whatever, then this tape might warrant further investigation. DEMO PICS To try to illustrate the point I'm making about small artifacts, flare and a big depth of sharp focus, I've attached a slightly enhanced image and an enlarged section of a aircraft window view. This pic was taken by me in 1980 over the Baltic and the lens used was a very high quality Olympus 24mm wide angle on a 35mm camera. A lot of clutter has been picked up in this image which is certainly not UFO related! By all means pass it on, although its not to be used for commercial reproduction. Hope you find my comments useful, --- In addition, a colleague of Gloria Dixon's, Paul Cabby, attached the following after a viewing of the footage: I concur entirely with Bill Rose's findings. As I said, it's not the camera because the marks don't move when the camera does. incidentally, I do not share Bill's optimism about a camcorders depth of field. Most camcorders equate (approx) to a 35-50 mm lens on a still camera, which is near the human perspective and I wouldn't consider that to be a particularly wide angle- however I take his point entirely about the sharpness of them, it's not the camera, so it has to be that it's either aircraft a long way away (unlikely) or scratches on the window (almost certain as I can testify trying to take a picture of a F3 pilot smiling at me through the window of a VC10!)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: The Challenge From: Lynne Bishop <lynnebishop@softhome.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:28:51 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:04:11 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:55:24 EDT >Subject: Re: The Challenge >To: updates@globalserve.net Hello, Dr. Randle, >>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0400 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: The Challenge John Velez said <snipped for brevity>: >>Everyone should take the time to write to Budd Hopkins, David >>Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, John Carpenter et al and -ask >>them- to collectively contribute any materials they may be in >>possession of that may help to advance what little is known >>about UFO abductions. If it turns out that they _don't_ have >>anything of value in stock then that fact should also be known. KRandle responded: >I think you might have found the problem. There is nothing in >stock of value. Sir, your post is primarily well-written, but this comment prejudges data and information that you are not privy to at this time. Prejudging the data is incorrect, regardless of one's personal spin on the abduction phenomenon. KRandle also said: >Okay, but be open to the alternative explanations. This cuts both ways. Sincerely, Lynne Bishop
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 [bwwma] BWW Media Alert 19990919 From: Bufo Calvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:51:04 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:07:17 -0400 Subject: [bwwma] BWW Media Alert 19990919 Bufo Calvin P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin<;/A> <A HREF="http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/bwnl">Bufo's WEIRD NEWS LINKS</A> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/bufosweirdworld">Link to Amazon.com</A> ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it). September 19, 1999 As usual, let me know what you think at <A HREF="mailto: bufocalvin@aol.com">BufoCalvin@aol.com</A>. On to the listings: Times are generally Pacific. LIVE EVENTS What: THE THIRD INTERNATIONAL SASQUATCH SYMPOSIUM When: September 24 through 28 Where: THE PACIFIC SPACE CENTRE, 1100 Chestnut Street, Vancouver, British Columbia Who: An array of Bigfoot notables and authors, including: Dr. Grover Krantz; John Kirk; Dr. John Bindernagel, Jack Lapseritis How much: $20 for the Symposium pass, day passes available. Each day focusses on a different topic For more information: <A HREF="http://welcome.to/sasquatch_symposium">http://welcome.to/sasquatch_sympo sium</A> What: EVOLVING TIMES EXPO � UFO SPEAKERS PROGRAM When: September 24 through 26 Where: SACRAMENTO CONVENTION CENTER, J and 21 Streets, Sacramento, CA Who: Ed Fouche, Standing Elk, Dr. Richard Boylan How much: $10 per day RADIO Eddie Middleton's very popular show in the South, Nightsearch, has a website at <A HREF="http://listen.to/nightsearch">http://listen.to/nightsearch<;/A>. Starting soon, the new website at <A HREF="http://www.nightsearch.net/">http://www.nightsearch.net/<;/A>. Unfortunately, no streaming audio. Sundays from 2:00 to 4:00 PM (Pacific). The call-in line is 901-365-1430. Ken Dashow, THE EDGE OF REALITY, Sundays at 9:00 PM, Fridays at 5:00 PM. Dashow is known for his sarcastic wit. <A HREF="http://www.talkamerica.com/dashow.html">http://www.talkamerica.com/dasho w.html</A> and <A HREF="http://www.dashow.com/edge.html">http://www.dashow.com/edge.html<;/A>. There is some dispute on these times. A correspondent tells me (thanks! If you'd like to be acknowledged on the list, let me know) that it runs from 5:00 PM to 8:00 PM (Pacific...that's how times are generally listed here), with a repeat from 8:00 PM to 11:00 PM on Saturdays. Mike Jarmus, REALITY AND BEYOND, 7:00 PM Sundays, <A HREF="http://spectrum.orn.com/omega.ram">http://spectrum.orn.com/omega.ram<;/A> . Streaming audio available Art Bell - DREAMLAND Currently, the most popular talk show on this area. <A HREF="http://www.artbell.com/">http://www.artbell.com/<;/A>. Live streaming audio (and video) available. Jeff Rense - SIGHTINGS Jeff is well-versed on the topics, but likes to let the guests speak, resulting in one of the best radio shows on these topics. You can hear Real Audio of the show, and there are archives as well. Go to <A HREF="http://www.sightings.com/">http://www.sightings.com/<;/A> for more information. The show is on at 7:00 PM Pacific Monday through Friday, and 8:00 PM Pacific on Sunday. You can hear it anywhere through your computer. Please note that Jeff also often covers topics which I do not consider relevant to this list. To subscribe to the Jeff Rense Weekly E-news (which includes articles and a complete guest listing), e-mail (subject: Subscribe) <A HREF="mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net">mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net</A>. Sunday, September 19, 8:00 PM: David Oester and Sharon Gill of the International Ghost Hunters Society Wednesday, September 22, 7:00 PM, Michael Lindemann's weekly UFO/ET report; Bill Oliver and guests on the World Bigfoot Symposium Thursday, September 23, 7:00 PM, John Hogue on Nostradamus and the millenium Paul Williams and Scott Carr: UFO DESK This New York show has been around for years, but is now available on streaming audio. The website is <A HREF="http://www.escape.com/~paulw/ufodesk.html">http://www.escape.com/~paulw/ ufodesk.html</A>. It runs at 8:00 PM (Pacific) on Sundays. Jeff Mishlove AND THE VIRTUAL UNIVERSITY Webcast every weekday at 8:00 PM for two hours, with a repeat at 10:00 PM. Webcast at <A HREF="http://www.wisdomradio.com/">http://www.wisdomradio.com/<;/A>. ERSKINE OVERNIGHT Webcast 9:00 PM to Midnight with an immediate repeat at <A HREF="http://www.talkamerica.com/">Talkamerica.com</A>. TELEVISION DISCOVERY CHANNEL (Australia) (time zone unknown) Sunday, September 19, 12:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE Thursday, September 23, 8:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE Friday, September 24, 9:00 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE Next Sunday, September 26, 12:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE DISCOVERY CHANNEL (Europe) (GMT+1) Monday, September 20, 10:25 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S WORLD OF STRANGE POWERS: STIGMATA-THE WOUNDS OF CHRIST Monday, September 20, 11:45 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: SQUARING THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE Monday, September 20, 12:15 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: ON THE TRAIL OF THE BIG CATS Tuesday, September 21, 10:25 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S WORLD OF STRANGE POWERS: GHOSTS, APPARITIONS, AND HAUNTED HOUSES Wednesday, September 22: 10:25 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S WORLD OF STRANGE POWERS: FAIRIES, PHANTOMS, AND FANTASTIC PHOTOGRAPHS THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL (USA) Thursday, September 23, 10:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT SERPENTS Friday, September 24, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT SERPENTS Next Thursday, September 30, 10:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT CREATURES Next Friday, October 1, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: GIANT CREATURES THE HISTORY CHANNEL (USA) Thursday, September 23, 7:00 AM, IN SEARCH OF...AMITYVILLE HORROR Thursday, September 23, 7:30 AM, IN SEARCH OF...GHOSTLY STAKEOUT Thursday, September 23, 12:00 PM, IN SEARCH OF...AMITYVILLE HORROR Thursday, September 23, 12:30 PM, IN SEARCH OF...GHOSTLY STAKEOUT Friday, September 24, 7:00 AM, IN SEARCH OF...: MAGIC OF STONEHENGE Friday, September 24, 7:30 AM, IN SEARCH OF...: DARK STAR (the Sirius mystery) Friday, September 24, 12:00 PM, IN SEARCH OF...: MAGIC OF STONEHENGE Friday, September 24, 12:30 PM, IN SEARCH OF...: DARK STAR (the Sirius mystery) Monday, September 27, 7:00 AM, IN SEARCH OF...YETI Monday, September 27, 7:30 AM, IN SEARCH OF...SWAMP MONSTER Monday, September 27, 12:00 PM, IN SEARCH OF...YETI Monday, September 27, 12:30 PM, IN SEARCH OF...SWAMP MONSTER Tuesday, September 28, 7:00 AM, IN SEARCH OF...MAYAN MYSTERIES Tuesday, September 28, 7:30 AM, IN SEARCH OF...AZTEC CONQUEST Tuesday, September 28, 12:00 PM, IN SEARCH OF...MAYAN MYSTERIES Tuesday, September 28, 12:30 PM, IN SEARCH OF...AZTEC CONQUEST Wednesday, September 29, 7:00 AM, IN SEARCH OF...REINCARNATION Wednesday, September 29, 7:30 AM, IN SEARCH OF...LIFE AFTER LIFE Wednesday, September 29, 12:00 PM, IN SEARCH OF...REINCARNATION Wednesday, September 29, 12:30 PM, IN SEARCH OF...LIFE AFTER LIFE Friday, October 1, 7:30 AM, IN SEARCH OF...EARTHQUAKES (includes prediction) Friday, October 1, 12:30 PM, IN SEARCH OF...EARTHQUAKES (includes prediction) LOCAL TELEVISION (USA) BEYOND THE UNEXPLAINED WITH JANET RUSSELL Janet does get major guests on her show. Check with your local cable company to see if it is cablecasting the show. Specific guest information not currently available. SUNDAYS Cablevision of Woodbury NY CH 25/80/96 9:30PM MONDAYS Cablevision of Riverhead NY CH 27 10:00AM Manhattan Neighborhood Network NY CH 56 1:30AM TUESDAYS Cablevision of Yorktown Heights NY CH 34 8:30PM Community TV of Sante Fe New Mexico CH 8 8:30PM WEDNESDAYS Gateway Access "12" SpringCreek NY CH 12 8:30PM Pac "8" TV of Los Alamos N.Mexico CH8 4:00 PM THURSDAY Cablevision of Hauppague NY CH 25 5PM LTV of Easthampton NY CH 27 10:00 AM FRIDAY Cablevision of Brookhaven NY CH 99 9:30PM PAC 8 of Los Alamos New Mexico CH 8 9:00 PM SATURDAY Cablevision of Westchester NY CH 58/37 2:00 PM MYSTERIES FROM BEYOND THE OTHER DOMINION This is hosted by Dr. Franklin Ruehl, Ph.D. This was one of the original shows on THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, and reportedly continues to be seen in the Los Angeles area. I�m still confirming, but the times and channels I have are below. TIME-WARNER, Mondays at 10:00 PM CENTURY CABLE, Fridays at 9:00 PM MEDIA ONE, Thursdays at 10:00 PM RTL 5 (Europe) (GMT+1) Sunday, September 19, 1:35 PM, SIGHTINGS (episode unknown) SBS6 (Europe) (GMT+1) Monday, September 20, 11:55 PM, MYSTERIES, MAGIC & MIRACLES (Dutch) Tuesday, September 21, 12:00 PM, MYSTERIES, MAGIC & MIRACLES (Dutch) Wednesday, September 22, 12:10 PM, MYSTERIES, MAGIC & MIRACLES (Dutch) THE SCIENCE CHANNEL (USA) New schedule: this time, it�s gotten specific. It says that it repeats twice daily. My interpretation is that the 1:30 AM show is also on at 9:30 AM and 5:30 PM Sunday, September 19, 1:30 AM ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERY CATS Tuesday, September 21, 1:30 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES Tuesday, September 21, 8:00 PM, ROSWELL Wednesday, September 22, 1:30 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE:CURSES AND OMENS Thursday, September 23, 1:30 AM ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: ARE ALIENS TRYING TO CONTACT US? Friday, September 24, 1:30 AM ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: THE PUZZLE OF THE PYRAMIDS Saturday, September 25, 1:30 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERIOUS INDIA Sunday, September 26, 1:30 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: PSYCHIC DETECTIVES Monday, September 27, 9:30 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: PSYCHIC DETECTIVES Monday, September 27, 5:30 PM: ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: PSYCHIC DETECTIVES THE SCI-FI CHANNEL (US Feed) Monday, September 20, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS (UFOs in the Pacific Northwest; healing comas; luck; psychic detective; Hollywood haunting) Tuesday, September 21, 1999, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS (Government and UFOs; Roswell incident; dog detects oncoming heart attack; psychic detective; cemetery haunting) Wednesday, September 22, 1999, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS (twins abducted by aliens; artificial intelligence; haunting; angels) Thursday, September 23, 1999, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS (past life regression; ghosts; aliens and missiles; snake handlers; near-death experiences) Friday, September 24, 1999, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS (Holy Land UFOs; near-death experiences; Bigfoot; UFO defense manual) Next Monday, September 27, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS (Hangar 18...the Air Force and UFOs; psychic detective; between-lives life; alien abduction; luck; Martian life) Next Tuesday, September 28, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS (UFO technology; injury-induced psychics; soul exchanges; Obeah; Mexican UFOs; healing) Next Wednesday, September 29, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS (UFO tape; psychic detective; alien autopsy; Bigfoot) Next Thursday, September 30, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS (psychic cop; Queen Mary ghosts) Next Friday, October 1, 11:00 AM, SIGHTINGS (episode unknown) SYNDICATED (USA) Wednesday, September 22, LEEZA (psychic powers) ___________________________ This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ To change your status, please go to <A HREF="http://www.onelist.com/">http://www.onelist.com/<;/A>. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo�s WEIRD NEWS LINKS and Bufo�s ANOMALIT REVIEW there. Please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before. _____________________________ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Share your special moments with family and friends- send PHOTO Greetings at Zing.com! Use your own photos or choose from a variety of funny, cute, cool and animated cards. <a href ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ___________________________ This is Bufo saying, "If rything____________________________ Please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before. --- You can subscribe to this list by sending an e-mail to bwwma-subscribe@onelist.c om. You can unsubscribe by sending an e-mail to bwwma-unsubscribe@onelist.com. --- You may also be interested in Bufo's WEIRD NEWS LINKS (links to weird stories in non-paranormal-dedicated media) by sending an e-mail to bwnl-subscribe@onelist. com. --- You may also wish to subscribe to Bufo's ANOMALIT Review (a monthly review and l istings of new books and other items on these topics) by sending an e-mail to an omalit-subscribe@onelist.com.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: UDN News - 09-09-99 From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:50:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:24:44 -0400 Subject: Re: UDN News - 09-09-99 >Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:43:40 +0200 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Renzo Cabassi <ufodatanet@mail.asianet.it> >Subject: UDN News >We are glad to announce that at: >http://www.ufodatanet.org >you will find an article by Massimo Massimo Silvestri, entitled >Introduction To Seismic Lights >Abstract >The aim of the paper is to present and describe a particular >geophysical phenomenon that sometimes occurs in coincidence with >earthquakes, that of seismic lights. >Noted since ancient times as a precursory sign of an earthquake, >over the last two centuries the subject of seismic lights has >aroused great controversy between those considering them to be >real lights and directly linked to the earthquake, and those >instead believing them to be fantasies imagined by the terrified >victims of the earthquake. >Only in the last thirty years, after the emergence of concrete >evidence such as the photos taken during the earthquakes >registered at Matsushiro in Japan between 1965 and 1967, has the >scientific community started to conduct studies (on which this >paper is based) in an attempt to understand this rare natural >phenomenon. The intention of the article is to introduce readers >to the existence of this interesting geophysical phenomenon, >reviewing and analysing the various optical phenomena observed, >like lightning, flashes, light rays, luminous mist and >whirlpools of light, terminating with incredible luminescent >globes that in both appearance and behaviour recal globe >lightning. >A selection of past and recent cases reported in Europe, Asia >and the Americas will be presented. An attempt will be made to >take stock of the current position of research, presenting a >panorama of the various theories proposed to clarify this >enigma. In addition an account will be given of the analyses >made at the beginning of the 20th century by Ignazio Galli, the >first person in Italy to study these strange phenomena, leading >him to publish in 1910 one of the earliest catalogues, listing >148 cases of earthquakes in which various types of light >phenomena had been noted. >Readers may ask why a theme like this should be included in a >site dedicated to the study of UFO phenomena, or why some >ufologists have recently taken a deep interest in scientific >disciplines that regard real phenomena which occur however only >very rarely, such as seismic lights, globe lightning, St Elmo's >fire, air glow or other 'luminous atmospheric effects'. >These are all phenomena far removed from what at first sight, >and also according to 'common sense', would seem to be the >specific sphere of interest that regards UFOs. >The rationale, we feel, lies in the growing awareness that a >number of the as-yet unexplained cases of UFO sightings >(excluding, naturally, all those cases in which the >insufficiency makes identification impossible) can find a valid >and definitive explanation in these rare and unusual 'natural' >phenomena, that are understood only partially and on which the >scientific community is attempting to shed light. We believe >that this is a correc t way to attempt a scientific approach to >the thousands of reports from all over the world concerning the >observation of anomalous aerial phenomena. >Please, feel free to contribute with your comments and original >articles about UFO phenomena. Thank you for the interesting article. The problem with attributing UFO sightings to EQ lights is that EQ lights are extremely transient. The burst of energy seen released in the lab is hardly perceivable and extremely fast. UFO sightings (of craft) in no way mimic EQ lights. Nor does OBOL since the BOL last much longer that EQ lights. Also, EQ lights, of duration, such as that ones in Japan look more like Aurora than UFOs. Terry Evans.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 NASA TV Not Shut Down As Claimed From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:51:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:44:37 -0400 Subject: NASA TV Not Shut Down As Claimed Dear All, This just in from John Locker. So much for Graham Birdsall's remarks about NASA TV being unavailable! "Oh No...look NASA TV is off the air..... not! --- NASA is deeply committed to spreading the unique knowledge that flows from its aeronautics and space research...." Read NASA Administrator Daniel S. Goldin's welcome letter, bio and speeches. Welcome to NASA Web Do you dream of exploring space or working for NASA? If so, avoid black holes and drugs. You decide. NTV Schedule of News Events NASA Television (NTV) is a resource designed to provide real-time coverage of Agency activities and missions as well as providing resource video to the news media, and educational programming to teachers, students and the general public. NTV is broadcast on GE-2, transponder 9C, C-Band, located at 85 degrees West longitude. The frequency is 3880.0 MHz. Polarization is vertical and audio is monaural at 6.8 MHz. (All times Eastern.) ********************************************************** September 21, Tuesday 2:30 - 3:30 pm - NASA Minority Business Awards - HQ September 22, Wednesday 6:00 - 10:00 am - Hurricanes Live Shots with Dr. Wilson - MSFC September 23, Thursday 4:30 - 5:30 am - Live Coverage of the Mars Climate Orbiter Insertion - JPL 6:30 - 8:30 am - Mars Climate Orbiter Live Shot - JPL 11:00 am - noon Mars Climate Orbiter Insertion Briefing - JPL September 24, Friday* (date change) 6:00 - 10:00 am - Diabetes Technology Live News Interviews - LARC 1:00 - 2:00 pm - Diabetes Technology Live News Interviews - LARC September 28, Tuesday 1:00 - 2:00 pm - Chandra Space Science Update - HQ September 30, Thursday 6:00 - 10:00 am - LED Live Shots - MSFC ********************************************************** October 1, Friday 6:00 - 10:00 am - MAGLEV Live News Interviews - MSFC October 6, Wednesday 1:00 - 2:00 pm - Hubble Space Science Update - HQ ********************************************************** * Denotes change from previous schedule. Most recent Video File Advisory. Copyright Guidelines For Use Of NASA Materials NOTE: A weekly schedule is also available by calling (202) 358-3572, and then hitting the number two on your touch tone phone. Information is updated each Monday for the entire week. " The truth is with us.... Tim M. [The bone of contention on this side of the pond is not that NASA TV is "off", but rather manned missions are now now 'live' via a few second delay - much like talk-radio. --ebk]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: UFO over English Channel? From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:01:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:49:38 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO over English Channel? >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:46:23 -0400 >From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO over English Channel? >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> Top quality research from David there no rubbish about 'rolling projects', no need to belong to a group of mind controlling charlatans - just one person getting some co-operation from a few others. Result? Case closed in a few weeks. Had the goons at BUFORA got hold of this piece of footage it would have been - and you can perm [combine -ebk] any three from five here: a) discussed by council, interminably, and inadequately, at the bottom of the agenda somewhere adjacent to the last item b) lost c) given to someone who couldn't analyse a cat's breakfast d) written about two years later in their, ahem, 'magazine' e) effectively stolen from the original researcher and promoted as a BUFORA 'classic' Yet again resrearchers acting independently trounce even the image of a corporate, lumbering behemoth such as BUFORA. Rage against the machine! Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:17:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:57:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT >Bruce Maccabee, you continue to be an embarrassment to the >field of ufology. You very well know that William G.Hyzer has >proven that Photograph #19 was a double exposure. Yours and >MUFON's contentions that there was a dent in the hood, that the >top of the hood was muddy, that there were bricks in the back >of the truck, luminosity coming down the road� all these >contentions are just that: contentions. I am not sure if I agree with Mr. Black that Dr. Maccabee (what is your degree in?) is an embarrassment. But I think he hurt his credibility with the Gulf Breeze case...for starters. I think it is suspicious that over time the Anti-Walters camp found a loop-hole in his story. Dr. Maccabee came up with another "why it is" story. i.e "Its that bricks... no, its the dent, no its the mud...." A good investigator would have already been aware of this and figured it into the investigation at the time, not upon criticism. >William G. Hyzer, with all of his sophisticated equipment, has >proven that there was no luminosity coming down the road, >contradicting Jeff Sainio's contention with 12-years of >experience in the field of photographic analysis. >You continue to use a smear tactic on Photograph's 1 through 5. >The only thing, Bruce Maccabee, that has been smeared in the >last 10 to 15 years has been your reputation. Your dubious >analysis of the New Zealand video, your ridiculous analysis of >the Guardian video [to which later, one of MUFON's top >investigators in Canada, Tom Theofanous, had proven to be a >hoax], and lastly, your ridiculous investigation of the Gulf >Breeze case. As I stated before, these crossover's in ufology >are ridiculous. > >As far as I'm concerned, anyone who accepts $20,000.00 in an >ongoing investigation should disqualify himself from further >involvement with the case. Realizing, of course, that Walt >Andrus would never have the professionalism to dismiss you, you >should have been disqualified from any further investigation of >this case upon acceptance of this sum of money. Also, your good >friend [who is no longer in the field], Bob Oeschler, accepted >$5,000.00 early-on in the investigation for some work he did on >the Ed Walters' photographs, which obviously had nothing to do >with evaluating the Gulf Breeze case. Mr. Black is correct. Taking the money puts DBM motives in question. It doesn't matter when he took the money, the deal could have been cut long before the case was completed. The honorable thing to do would been to refuse any payment. As for Mr. Oeschler, didn't he take that money allegedly for having some photos reprinted? Seems to me that it would not have cost $5,000 to do what he did. >So it turns out that Ed Walters, in the end, had two people >indebted to him: Bruce Maccabee and Bob Oeschler. >So I would say that with your three strikes, Bruce Maccabee, >that you should be out: New Zealand, Guardian and Gulf Breeze. >Jerome Clark can continue to say that he has all the respect in >the world for your intelligence, your knowledge and your >ability. But if he's talking about this in relation to ufology, >he does not know what he is talking about. This is why I am >going to add Jerome Clark's name to the list of "The Old Boy's >Club." This is a clique where nothing derogatory is said about >another member, no matter how badly their cases are investigated >or what ridiculous statements they make. They simply do not >speak ill of one another, and these are: Stanton Friedman, Budd >Hopkins, Bruce Maccabee, Walt Andrus, and now Jerome Clark. Its a matter of survival. In the Press Corps, if you come out and say something the President does not like, it could be totally true, but not liked, then you are out on your ear. No more White House assignments... thats the kiss of death. The same holds true for the Good Ole Boys in the UFO community. Its very important to not say anything bad (but true) about anyone else in the club because it might put you on the outside and that might mean not getting some morsel of "valuable" info... "left out of the loop" so to speak. >As I said, this is the first time you were subject to a test to >determine if your photo-analysis work would stand against the >work of another who is not in the field of ufology. As far as I >am concerned, you miserably failed that test. On top of that, >you accepted $20,000.00 for writing a chapter in a book before >the case was even finalized. Further, you had the audacity to >insult the intelligence of the UFO community by co-authoring a >book called "UFOs Are Real, Here's the Proof." >I notice that in dubious cases like Ed Walters and Whitley >Strieber, there is one common denominator: other people's >stories and photographs are used in attempt to validate the >claim in question. Mr. Strieber has done the same thing. In >fact, his last book "Confirmation," was exactly done for that >purpose. I will state for any and all UFOlogist out there: you >cannot use the photograph or story of another person to validate >a separate story or claim. Certainly, it may be interesting if >someone has a photograph that looks similar to the those taken >by Ed Walters, or a story similar to that given by Whitley >Strieber. But in the end, the primary claim is to be evaluated >on its own merits, disregarding any other photographs taken, and >disregarding other stories, similar or otherwise, to the claims >in question. And yet, in these dubious cases, claimants always >try to point to other cases or photographs to vindicate their >own. You will notice in the Travis Walton case, Walton never >once tried to use another persons abduction claim to support his >own. In the 1976 Casey County, Kentucky abduction incident, the >three women involved did not rely upon the claim of another >person in an attempt to bolster their own experience. Both of >these cases, as far as I'm concerned, stand as highly regarded >cases. >It is a shame that you, Bruce Maccabee, had to >co-author your first book with Ed Walters, who is >responsible for one of the most elaborate UFO >hoaxes of the 90's. You have embarrassed yourself, >and have embarrassed the UFO community. >In a separate letter I will be addressing to Jerome Clark where >he [and also Bill Jones of Ohio MUFON] want to know why I am so >upset with some of the leaders in ufology; these are the exact >reasons why. >Finally, in your comments about Art Hufford you said that he >still may have seen the same thing Ed Walters photographed - you >are missing the point. He couldn't have seen the same thing >unless the Ed Walter's UFO had portable windows. Given your >readiness to accept the claim of Ed Walters, I am assuming that >you believe this to be a possibility too. Regardless, there is >no way that Art Hufford saw the same object seen in Ed's >pictures. First of all, Ed's were models, and secondly, even if >you believe in Ed Walters, there were no windows in the UFO seen >by Art Hufford. And to this day, an article just recently listed >in the Pensacola Journal, he states the same ridiculous >statement again: "I saw the same thing in the Ed Walters >photograph." The case of the wanna-believers in Gulf Breeze goes >on and on and on. >But most importantly, Bruce Maccabee, you stated in your letter >that there were two other people, a man and a woman, plus a >genteman named Truman Holcombe , who had a good view of an >object that they perceived to be the same object in the Gulf >Breeze photograph. But as I stated earlier, the only issue I had >with Art Hufford is that he was an investigator on the case. It >would have made no difference if Hufford did see windows on the >object, because each case is handled individually - on its own. >Just because Art Hufford may have seen an object with windows in >it or had perceived it to be the same shape and size of the Ed >Walters object, this does not mean Ed Walters photographs are >genuine. The same goes for the other three people; just because >they felt as if they had seen something similar to the Gulf >Breeze photographs does not vindicate Ed Walters. The >conclusions to be drawn from the Gulf Breeze case are based on >the evidence presented by Ed Walters only. Each case stands on >its own merits. >That is why you have tried so hard in your book, "UFOs Are Real, >Here's The Proof," to use other photographs from other cases to >vindicate Ed Walters. Please recall that in 1970, Bill Spaulding >investigated a photograph given to him which showed an alleged >UFO hovering over a house. A copy of this picture was put in a >midwestern newspaper along with the story of a young man who >took the picture. Some weeks later, Spaulding analyzed the >photograph and found a string holding up the object. The young >man denied it, and his parents were very upset. After a second >analysis, he reaffirmed that there was definitely a string >holding up a model. Afterward, the young man, age-15, then >confessed that it was a model and he had done this for a joke. >During the three or four week period of time that this story had >developed, six to seven people in that town had reported seeing >exactly the same object that the boy had photographed. Well >since the photograph the young boy took was a model, these >people obviously could not have seen the same object as >photographed. The question is, what did they see? Was it power >of suggestion? Was it the idea that they wanted to believe so >badly that what the boy saw was real that every object they saw >looked like it? I am not a psychologist and don't know the >answer to that, but that is one of the reasons why, regardless >of what anyone else reports that looks similar or exactly like >pictures taken by a separate subject, that does not confirm or >make pictures taken by the subject real. Again, a UFO case is >based upon the evidence presented by the person being >investigated, and not by other pictures of objects or reports of >other objects, unless of course, the object is sighted under >simultaneous conditions. >Interestingly, in all the pictures that Ed Walters took at his >home, not one neighbor ever reported seeing any objects that Ed >Walters photographed. Not one. There again, that does not mean >that Ed Walters photographs are not real, but it is interesting >to note that not one neighbor saw any object that Ed Walters >photographed. Mr. Black makes some important points and he should not be dismissed. Terry Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Berwyn Watch 1 From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:44:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:12:36 -0400 Subject: Berwyn Watch 1 The hunt for evidence of a genuine crashed UFO of ET origin has generated a great deal of controversy since 1947. To date the UK has held little of interest for the crashed saucer buff, with The Rendlesham Forest case being the only possible contender. However this case has failed to develop into anything other than a confused mish-mash of claim and counter -claim. The collapse of Rendlesham as a crashed UFO case has left the post X-Files generation of UK ufologists desparate for a credible 'British Roswell' and to that end various stories and rumours have been rehabilitated, the most prominent of which is the so-called 'Berwyn Mountain UFO Crash'. The details of this case are too long to post here for those who have little or no knowledge of the case but briefly: * An enormous explosion was heard and felt on the Welsh Mountain of Cader Berwyn at approx 8.30pm on 23rd January 1974 * Several local witnesses had seen unusual lights in the sky throughout the evening of the 24 Jan, both before and after the explosion * A local nurse drove up on the mountain road and claimed she saw a large red/orange light with other lights moving above and below it on the hillside * A search team from RAF Valley scoured the hillside but reported finding nothing * The incident was widely reported in the media with no firm conclusions being reached This is a very basic account of the event. However, there was no mention of crashed UFOs/alien bodies/cover-ups etc., until the early 1990s when the case was dragged out of the closet and re-interpreted. Despite the majority of elements within the case being satisfactorily explained the Berwyn Mountain Incident is slowly being nudged forward into the position of a 'British Roswell'. The following elements are now embedded in the case and people believe any permutations of the following took place: * Nothing, it was all a complicated misperception * It was a military crash * The mountain was cordoned off and witnesses were turned away * There was a huge military presence in the area for a week * An alien craft was found/bodies were removed * Radiation fall out in the area was high - leading to a leukemia cluster * There has been a massive military/police/media cover-up of information * Several crash retrieval team members have contacted leading ufologists with information about the event and so on None of the second series of statements have been proven, yet are rapidly becoming part of ufolore. What can be done? The aim of Berwyn Watch is to chart a case-in-progress. If, as I believe, there is a concerted effort to make this case something it isn't then we have a chance here to get in 'on the ground floor' and chart the development of a myth. Alternatively, if on-going research by myself or anyone else throws up new information it can be aired in public before it becomes set in stone. Berwyn Watch can also act as a forum to discuss queries anyone may have about the case, discuss source material and so on. Additionally any new articles, book references, mentions in lectures or in ufological gossip can be acknowledged and dated so that the orgins of any new motif can be discovered and tracked. If you know of any such information please forward it to me. Several of the UK's prominent and active ufologists have spent time on the case and have become players in the game, these include: Paul Devereux (neutral) Wrote about the case in 'Earthlights' and 'Places of Power'. Originally believed Earthlight phenomnena was responsible. Jenny Randles (still thinks there is some mystery) Has covered the case extensively in 'UFO Reality', 'UFO Retrievals' and in IUR, Northern UFO News, Sightings etc. Lectured about the case at conferences. Tony Dodd (pro crashed ET craft) Has written about the case in UFO (UK) magazine. Also in his book 'Alien Investigator'. Has lectured about it at UFO conferences. Refuses to reveal many sources of information. Margaret Fry (pro crashed ET craft) One of the original investigators in the case. Has published one or two articles. Refuses to share information or source material. Nick Redfern (pro crashed ET craft) Redfern has devoted several pages to the case in each of his three books (Covert Agenda, FBI Files, Cosmic Crashes). Redfern has changed his mind about several aspects of the case but still believes an ET craft crashed on Cader Berwyn. The case frequently features in his lectures. Russel Kellett Very little known about this person's views, but said to be a believer in the ET craft explanation. Andy Roberts Has done a great deal of investigation into this case. Brief summaries written for Fortean Times. Article on the case due in IUR in 2000. Full details of investigation in forthcoming book 'The UFOs That Never Were' (with Jenny Randles & Dr David Clarke), London House, Feb. 2000 There may be others who I am unaware of, working at a more local level. Again, please let me know if you know of someone with a specific interest in this case. If you wish to know more about the case please consult any of the source materials given above. If anyone wants a more detailed bibliography of material on the case I will be pleased to supply one. Please feel free to forward this message to any lists, discussion or news groups or individuals who you think may be interested. Comments/criticisms welcomed. If you wish to be removed from this list please send me a message with 'remove' in the subject area and I will do so. Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Panspermia From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:57:08 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:32:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Panspermia >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:10:51 -0500 >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: Panspermia >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> <snip> >I'm wondering if anyone has ever calculated a projected >evolutionary profile of a species based on known parameters of >that species' evolution to date? Hi Amy. Assuming that evolution from a single cell organism to a human being through favourable mutations of the genetic code is the reality of how we got here, then my understanding is that we should not have yet arrived (see "Darwin's Black Box - The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution" by Michael J. Behe (1996) and "Evolution: A Theory in Crisis" by Michael Denton (1985), just to mention two good books). It is not our scientific facts that are wrong but our scientific assumptions which prevent us from coming to even a reasonable explanation of our origins. Maybe we are trying to find the correct answer to a wrong question. >Scientists have calculated the probability of planets out there >that may contain life (Drake Equation) so why can't they >calculate the probable evolution of a given species based on the >rate of evolution observed thus far? Anyone for "quantum >evolution"? ;> If we extrapolate the observed rate of evolution, which is exactly zero since no new species (variations, yes) have appeared to science, then the product of our probabilities "Drake Equation" for biological evolution would also be exactly zero. >Hey, Nick, why don't you challenge your scientist friends to >come up with a formula to calculate probable evolution? I >wonder if applying such a formula to the human species - based >on the rate of human evolution thus far - we may find we have >evolved more or less compared to our rate of evolution in the >past. I have presented my fellow scientist friends with such formulas and probability studies done by other scientists and published in scientific journals, including popular periodicals such as "Creation ex nihilo", "Creation Research Society Quarterly" and "Cosmic Pursuit" and although they seemed to express some initial interest, I have been unable to challenges them to look into more. One professor was so disturbed with some of the material which I was sharing with two of his graduate students in biology (more examples of fresh finds of unfossilized dinosaur bones) that he literally chased me out of his lab and yelled after me that "...even the Pope believes in evolution!". He didn't seem too thrilled when I replied that I was not a Catholic but if he also wanted to believe what the Pope believed, that this was okay with me. ;o) >Nah, just the controversy alone over such a forumla would set >humankind back another million years. <grin> Maybe it just might move us a quantum leap forward instead. But are we all ready to accept our special place in this universe as created beings through an "Intelligent Designer", an expression used more and more by scientists who cannot seem to be able to say "God" (see "Show Me God - What the Message from Space Is Telling Us About God" by Fred Heeren (1998) and "The Creation Hypothesis: Scientific Evidence for an Intelligent Designer", edited by J.P. Moreland (1994)? Nick Balaskas >Amy >Home Page: "http://members.tripod.com/TheVanguard"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:37:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:22:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:06:47 EDT >Subject: Re: Five Really Stupid Ideas >To: updates@globalserve.net Top o' the morning to ye young James >Sean, Errol, List et Al.... >Sorry it took so long to respond to your respone to my response >of the... forget it, anyway... ditto >We've been waiting to hear THEIR transmissions, assuming some >higher culture of beings out there would actually be exactly at >our level so that we could contact each other. I mean, it's >tough enough trying to find ANY culture, let alone one just >right at where we are! Higher cultures? Oh, I don't really >believe, deep down, that they continue to use the same portions >of the spectrum we do. Whadda yous think? What do I think? Well I think SETI is a waste of time cos if they do communicate across the interstellar distances it will be by some other form of pulse emission. And for all those who say that a sufficiently far advanced civilisation would be able to backwardly communicate with us techno-nerds I say this: Why would an advanced civilisation want to communicate with a backward race? Surely they would only be interested in races as advanced as themselves or more advanced than themselves? Which doesn't mean they wouldn't want to study us, I.E. like we study animals in the wild. >Wouldn't that be nice, though? I don't think so. Personally, >and I mean _personally_ I would wish to seek the company of >either a lessor culture (so I could sell 'em stuff they really >didn't need like beads and Gripple) - OR - I would seek the >company of a much higher culture so that we could rape the >crappola out of their technology in order to screw many more of >our neighbors right here on earth. >Like, say, the USA gets a signal from Mongo and we develop >really neat weapons and stuff. First, we try them out on our >own people, just to make sure the stuff works, then we dump on >all our enemies, which is to say, the rest of the world. James, you are one corrupt American <G> May the WAD be with you <G> >>But if we have been visited???? >Nope. It was all swamp gas. We learned that in Klass. ME didn't go to Klass Me found it annoying and blinkered. >Crazy idea number six was explained to the Pope. He was so >shocked at hearing it that he fainted dead away. That's why he >looks so, so, I dunno, so drawn! And there was me thinking the Pope looked like that cos of the confessions of the alter boys? >Make it a QSL card. You can find me on 80 CW most nights when the >moon is in the seventh house, or the sunspots are super. Pray tell, enlighten me, QSL card? > >>5) Sal Mineo was Jewish. > >Who the hell was Sal Mineo? >Errol, I keep on telling you, get more old farts on this list, >man. Too few of your people even knew Sal! Pulease? Well who the hell is Sal Mineo? >I thank you from the bottom..... >of my heart. Which is attempting to continue to beat in spite >of that bat rastard Kevin blowing harder than Phil on a roll >right outside my long wire, 80 meter dipoles and that >multi-element sucker I put up when I bought this joint. Joint, damn not only do you drink Gripple but you smoke dope, Jim. You wanna be careful there might be Police ear-oles on this list. >J. Jaime Gesundt, Ph.D.'s too numerous to mention >It's a curse!> When I get as cursed, I'll let you have my opinion on da curse. -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: 1937 UFO crash in Germany From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:40:39 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:40:31 -0400 Subject: Re: 1937 UFO crash in Germany This e-mail is in regards to your August 12 posting to UFO UpDates requesting information on a possible 1937 UFO crash in Germany. There is a published account of a 1937 UFO crash that occurred in Czernica which was occupied by Germany at the time. A full page article on this UFO crash can be found in UFO Magazine (UK), Vol. 17 No. 4 (November/ December 1998), page 16. >From: "Keith Basterfield Network" <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> >To: "UFO UpDates" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: 1937 UFO Crash in Germany >Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:09:17 +1000 >Could anyone help me with "any information" regarding an alleged >1937 UFO crash in Germany. I'm interested in the slightest >rumors. If anyone has heard rumors or you can direct me where to >find more information it would be very much appreciated. This e-mail is in regards to your August 12 posting to UFO UpDates requesting information on a possible 1937 UFO crash in Germany. There is a published account of a 1937 UFO crash that occurred in Czernica which was occupied by Germany at the time. A full page article on this UFO crash can be found in UFO Magazine (UK), Vol. 17 No. 4 (November/ December 1998), page 16. It is reported the crash occurred in a field owned by the parents of Eva Braun, the woman who eventually married Adolph Hitler (who's scientists and engineers shortly afterwards developed disk shaped planes). Mr. Jaroslaw Krzyzanowski, ul. Galaktyczna 9/13, 59-220 Legnica, Poland is a reseacher who can provide you with additional details. Please share with us any new information you have come up with. Nick Balaskas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: [OvnisUfos] More Photos Mexican UFO Sighting From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:54:30 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:47:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [OvnisUfos] More Photos Mexican UFO Sighting >From: Guillermo Alarcon <ufoalarcon@email.msn.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:38:41 -0700 >Subject: Re: [OvnisUfos] More Photos Mexican UFO Sighting >Dear friends >I am forwarding a copy to all of you acording to my >contact Leopoldo Zambrano of the City of Monterrey Mexico, the >supposed OVNI whitnessed by civilians It was only a balloon >celebrating one of the government candidates, PAN. Sorry but >this has already been confirmed by the Municipal president, so >no it wasn't a UFO this time my friends.. >Not this time but this doesn't mean they don't exist.. >P.S. Please forward this email to all lists and all UFO sources >This wasn't a UFO Pleaase forward this message >Thank;s >Guillermo Alarcon ---------------------------------------- >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:27:41 EDT >Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:01:57 -0400 >Subject: Filer's Files #27 - 99 >Filer's Files #27 --1999, MUFON Skywatch Investigations >George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern >July 8, 1999, Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 <snip> >MEXICO UFO VIDEOMONTERREY -- Guillermo Alarcon reports >that a UFO was recorded by TV Station Azteca on July 8, 1999. >The station was testing the weather on the roof of the building in >Monterrey, when a UFO (ovni) was observed by the camera man. >He started to record the sighting live and the station broadcast the >sighting live. The UFO had a shinning light due to the sun's >reflection. It moved in a circle similar to the Mexico City video >flyby!!! My friend works at the station and is attempting to obtain >the film. >Thanks to Guillermo Alarcon, > ufoalarcon@email.msn.com <snip> Dear Guillermo & List, One may start wondering how many of the "OVNIs" observed in Mexico during the recent years which are likely to be balloons... Unfortunately, based upon the information referred to above, _I_think_ that many of the Mexico observations are now starting to lose much of their credibility, and that a great deal of these observations are likely to be balloons/airships/blimps, and thus, _explainable_ phenomena. Thus, are there now any real, credible UFO observations left in Mexico? (And, I do recall the Mexico City UFO hoax -- this was a video manipulation. I think Dr. Bruce Maccabee investigated this one -- and, I've been looking at parts of this footage myself, and do agree on the conclusion of a hoax, though it seemed to be a clever one.) I was hoping that most of these observations should be _real _, unexplained OVNIs/UFOs, and certainly not to be explained as _balloons_! (However, I realise that, by definition, an Unidentified Flying Object is _anything_ one see in the sky and cannot easily identify as a certain star, planet, or other object, and in 95% of the time can be easily explained as natural or manmade objects; so, technically anything is a UFO until it is identified and becomes an IFO, Identified Flying Object.) Further, many of the balloons/blimps/airships produced today are made of materials which are highly reflective, like aluminium (Al), e.g., http://pbs.bilkent.edu.tr/wgbh/nova/balloon/index96.html Do we now have to take _all_ of the Mexico OVNI/UFO observations made during the recent years with a pinch of salt? The fact is that one might get a little bit frustrared by reading about all these UFO sightings from Mexico these days. Not absolutely every unusual, metallic looking object spotted in the air need to come from an other planet.... Best regards, Asgeir
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Panspermia From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 01:02:53 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:49:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Panspermia >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:35:26 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Panspermia >>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> >>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Panspermia >>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:48:35 -0500 >>>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:50:58 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) >>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: Panspermia >>>>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:35:00 >>>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >>>>Subject: Panspermia <snip> >Hi Brian. >Many scientists, including biologists here where I work, will >tell you that we really do not know how life first appeared on >the Earth. >They will also honestly admit that even with the present age of >the universe, up from hundreds of millions of years at the time >of Darwin a century ago to tens of billions of years now, there >is still simply not enough time for life to have evolved to >produce what we have at present. Now if there are billions of >other Earths out there, well maybe at least one of them got an >earlier and faster start to life than the rest. Then tens of >billions of years may be enough time for life to have evolved >on Earth as it exists now, assuming life from other worlds >could somehow get from there to here. <snip> >the billions of years. Now if UFOs are in fact spacecraft >piloted by intelligent beings from other worlds, their landings >could contaminate (intentionally or accidently) the entire >universe with life in just thousands of years. Recall that >Apollo 12 astronauts brought back from the Moon parts of the >unmanned Surveyor lander where organisms from the Earth had >survived. This December yet another unmanned lander will visit >Mars and other spacecarft from Earth are currently heading >towards other worlds, including out of our solar system - and >our spacefaring age has only just started. <snip> >Nick Balaskas Nick & List, We might also put it in a different manner, i.e., the other way round. Thus, I guess there's also _a slight_ possibility that _we_, here on the Earth, are the _very first ones_ in the whole Universe who are really starting the whole spacefaring age, from the very beginning! Maybe _we_ are the ones who (accidentally, or by pure chance(?)), now get an earlier and faster start to life than the rest? And, that _we_ are now, in these days, about to start colonizing the whole Universe, from the very beginning -- and, that the UFOs, (supposedly) being piloted by entities from other worlds, in reality just _don't_ exist, but can rather be explained by some natural, terrestrial phenomena (exotic/military aircraft, balloons, pelis, geese, anomalous luminous phenomena (ALP), etc.)? So, we _may_ have a great responsibility for the "development" of rest of the Universe, so that the entities we (hopefully) _did create_ in the other worlds, in the more or less distant future, "many years" from now, are wondering about the same questions as we are now! Regards, Asgeir
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Stealth Blimp From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:30:08 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:56:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Stealth Blimp >From: Norio Hayakawa <GroomWatch@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:51:52 EDT >Subject: Re: Stealth Blimp >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Marty Murray <bubastis@warplink.com> >>To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Stealth Blimp >>Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:00:18 -0400 >>In the September 1999 issue of Popular Mechanics magazine there >>is an article entitled "Skunk Works Magic," written by Jim >>Wilson. The article is basically a history of the famed Skunk >>Works founded by aircraft designer Kelly Johnson, and describes >>many of the cutting edge aircraft produced there. ><snip> Dear Norio, Marty and List: >ELECTROCHROMATIC PANELS being tested at Groom Lake/AREA 51? >by Norio Hayakawa: >ELECTROCHROMATIC PANELS: >There are quite a number of new technologies being researched, >developed and tested at various leading-edge defense contractor >facilities, for example, at Groom Lake/AREA 51's highly >compartmentalized, multi-faceted conglomerate complexes. >Besides a new generation of VTOL-based UAVs (Unmanned Aerial >Vehicles - remotely-controlled surveillance platforms, some of >which may be disk-shaped), there are ongoing development and >testing of electrochromatic panels as part of innovations >relevant to "daytime-stealth" capabilities. >The electrochromatic panels are comprised of thousands of tiny >sensors that function as video-cameras that take images of >background scenaries, transferring them to the other panels on >the other side of the aircraft. This gives the illusion that >the aircraft is almost transparent. What the ground observer >sees is whatever background images behind (or above) the body of >the aircraft that are transposed to the "observer's" side of the >body of the aircraft. >For example, in a recent artist's rendition of a proposed >"Stealth Blimp" (POPULAR SCIENCE - although the "panels" were >not specifically mentioned, despite the fact that they would >undoubtedly accomplish the effect), one can see the stars from >above (and behind) the blimp, giving it an illusion of being >transparent, and making detection somewhat difficult under >certain conditions. >That an ongoing research, development and testing of such >electrochromatic panels at locations such as at Groom Lake/AREA >51 may be taking place was first suggested in an article written >by aviation writer, Bill Sweetman (POPULAR SCIENCE - May of >1997). <snip> While there is little doubt on my part that such magnificent SOA technology is underway at Groom and elswhere, there is some doubt, on my part at least, that such black projects are being tested over populated areas. This, in the face of your suggestion that one good reason for so doing, would be to gauge reaction by citizens. Are citizens to be treated as guinea pigs by our own military/industrial complex? And should this be the case here, then to what extent does this "testing of reaction" may we be exposed? Just how far will the government go to gauge reaction? For example, would they fly over foreign soil, such as Belgium or elsewhere? And what are the rules of engagement when a foreign nation launches fighter to intercept an unknown? Such information, required by the military/industrial complex is scaring the hell out of people, not to mention causing huge debate over the issue of UFO visitation. To me, this is doubtful strategy. But then, what do I know? I know I've never seen an object as described in this particular thread, I have however, seen a triangular object, running silently at a low (and known) altitude, sized at about 1000 feet, with strange running lights and strobes not fitting any pattern recognized by FAA, military or otherwise. I might add, not traveling in any direction known to be towards or away from an airport and at a calculated (as we did the altitude) speed of less than 50 mph. What we saw was a solid, silent object. Of course, I understand your desire to explain this. And you did (as usual) an excellent job at doing so in a perfectly logical and professional manner. I thank you for this information. However, I wonder what your take is on those objects for which there is no such explanation. I've not heard your opinion on such matters. Although I may have missed one of your many appearances, for which I apologize if so. Thank you, Sir. Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Message #20,000 At The Archive From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:43:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:43:29 -0400 Subject: Message #20,000 At The Archive Congratulations to Nick Balaskas whose message: >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:40:39 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: 1937 UFO crash in Germany was the 20,000th post to the UFO UpDates Archive at what is now 'Aliens On Earth.com' [Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes!] Nick wins: 1. An extremely battered copy of Jerry Clark's 'The UFO Boo ' [told you it was battered...] 2. A free pass to all the attractions at Roswell '97 - "Did I tell you it was hot!?" 3. An open invitation to appear on 'Michael Coren, Live' - anytime [T'rono 'umour, eh?] 4. Several totally un-interesting implants, provenance unknown 5. A broken CFRB web-audio server 6. A picture of Pat Parrinello in shorts 7. A lucky-horse shoe, courtesy of Peter Brookesmith 8. A lock of hair from a chupacabra 9. 27 copies of Bruce Goldberg's 'How Come Everyone Else's Theories Bolster My Own Abductions From The Future, Theory?' 10. A Complete Set Of MJ-12 Documents autographed by Harry Truman, Vannevar Bush, The Woods and Tim Cooper 11. Jacqueline Mitton's 'How To Research Everything In Sky' and the Star Prize... a mounted, framed photograph of himself, three pelicans, several bottles of ouzo and the Face On Mars... Nicely, inadvertently, done Nick! ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: The Challenge From: Henny van der Pluij <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:54:53 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:05:29 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:24:51 -0700 (PDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >I can only go from memory myself, but do recall such cases as 1) >a metal fragment that Ray Stanford had analyzed (but apparently >only for general composition, not isotopic analysis?) >2) the fragment given to that young Asst.(?) Prof. at UC San >Diego (?) who found some unearthly isotopic ratios, though his >identification of one of them was in error, as he later >admitted, which had made it seem like an impossibility That was Russell Vernon Clark. Now go to 13) >3) fragments from the same source that were sent out to other >labs whose names were kept anonymous >4) the fragments sent to Art Bell known as Art's parts, which he >then sent out to various labs for analysis >5) the fragments that Linda Howe received that she sent out to >various labs > >6) the result of Dave Jacob's analysis of some stain on a >bedsheet (if I recall correctly) found by an abductee after >being returned > >7) the implants recovered by Derrel Simms that he sent out for >analysis > >8) maybe Roger Leir has some, too, that are under analysis? > >9) the metal samples from the Meier case analyzed by Marcel >Vogel, who found them extremely unusual, and whose remarks and >microscopic analysis are on video tape > >10) certain metals and substances found at the center of certain >fresh crop circles > >11) the sample of alien(?) hair reported from an abductee case >recently written up in the MUFON journal. > >12) many others I can't recall?? > >It really would be a contribution to get as full a compilation >of such alien retrievals as possible. This is notwithstanding >the biggest problem of often never hearing back from the >laboratories of what their findings were. I think it would be >worthwhile not to restrict the compilation just to removed >implants. 13) Fragments analyzed by Dr. Valeri Dvuzhilni of the Russian Academy of Sciences On January 29 1986, an object described as a sphere of light, was seen crossing the Pacific region north of Vladivostok. Many people in and around Primorsky Kray peninsula saw its flight. Villagers of Dalnegorsk heard an explosion and plotted the impact point to the side of a mountain kwown as Hill 611. Trees were set on fire and the area was devastated. The object disintegrated upon impact. Scientists of the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow visited the area and collected peculiar pieces of metal, magnetized flint and nets. Analysis indicated that the metals in the debris had an unusually high purity. Among other things an unidentified type of chromium was present. Gold wires were found that were insulated with quartz. Dr. Valery Dvuzhilni, head of the research team, has stated in an interview with UFO researcher George Knapp that after three years of research he had concluded the debris was of extraterrestrial origin. He published a 300 page scientific report about the case that, until now, has not been released for public distribution by Russian authorites. The interview was broadcast by Discovery Channel in its documentary 'UFOs: Down to Earth' for the first time in the fall of 1996.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:39:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:13:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:57:58 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Hello All, >Today at 3:47 pm there was a white, spherical object hovering >directly over my house. It remained motionless for approximately >45 seconds and then it (very) slowly began to move off in a >South Easterly direction. >I have asked before, and I'll ask again. Does anyone have any >idea what these white spheres are? I am a highly skilled >observer, (a couple of folks on this list will attest to that >having spent some time with me skywatching) this thing moved in >an anomalous way, (hovered in one spot and then moving in a slow >straight path away from me) It was -not- a balloon, or a bird, >or an airplane. Believe me, I know the difference. I have seen >and recorded these objects for several years now. To date, no >one can tell me 'what' they are. > >Bruce? Anybody? Have you seen pix or video of these white >spheres before? It's the same stuff that Tommy King shoots in >Arizona, others record over Mexico and many other countries >around the world. My shots of these objects are not unique or >singular. >Anyone who archives or records sightings is welcome to add this >report to their database. The pix are not to be copied or >reposted without my permission. I include them as corroboration >for my sighting report and 'FYI' for my fellow UpDates list >members only. Please don't let me find them splattered all over >the web. I don't know what these things are and I don't want >anyone 'speculating' for me without my knowledge. "Some folks" >on the web have no scruples that way. John, I have heard a similar story which occurred in New York City a couple of weeks ago. Video was shot of this large shpere. I have not seen it yet, but hopefully will soon. I cannot release any other details at this time at the request of the person who took the film. All I can say, is that I have ask a well known UFO Investigator in the area to talk to the person and check out the video. REgards, Mike Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ ICQ#:7508455 BBS: (270) 683-3026 Fax: (270) 686-7394 Home: (270) 683-6811 ---
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 'Roswell', An Upcoming Teenage Soap From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:55:10 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:16:38 -0400 Subject: 'Roswell', An Upcoming Teenage Soap Source: "alt.alien.visitors". Stig *** From: skepticaled@webtv.net (E. L.) Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo,alt.alien.research,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Roswell For The Masses; Fodder For WebTV'ers! Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:01:45 -0400 (EDT) Here is a blurb about an upcoming TV show: "Roswell (WB, 9 p.m.) From veterans of The X-Files and My So-Called Life comes this swell, spooky show about Liz (Shiri Appleby), who is happily going about her teenage business waiting tables in Roswell, New Mexico, in a uniform with the universal alien symbol stitched on it, when blam! she gets shot in the tummy. Fortunately for her, Max Evans (Jason Behr), the boy she fancies, happens to be there, and happens to be an alien with magic healing powers. This gets Max in trouble with the other aliens, who are identifiable only in that they consume a great deal of Tabasco sauce and are very, very attractive. Tune in to find out whether Liz will dump the sheriff's dull (albeit human) son and try out romance with an e.t. before the shrewd, steely-eyed sheriff (William Sadler) and his long-haired deputy expose the mutants."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 CPR-Canada News: Circles Near Weyburn, Saskatchewan From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:52:49 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:18:45 -0400 Subject: CPR-Canada News: Circles Near Weyburn, Saskatchewan CPR-Canada News News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Crop Circles Near Weyburn, Saskatchewan September 19, 1999 _____________________________ Editor: Paul Anderson _____________________________ Preliminary Report - September 19 By Paul Anderson A formation of six circles was reported this morning near Weyburn, Saskatchewan, (northwest of Midale where the two previous formations have been found in the last few days), by the farmer (name withheld for the time being by request). Found late August. The circles are in a hay field, in a more or less random pattern. Four are close together and the other two are about 100 feet farther west from those. Five are smaller, about 25 feet diametre each and the other larger one is about 35 - 40 feet diametre. Each is a ring about 2 feet in width, and the grass in the ring areas themselves is much greener in colour than the surrounding grass in the field. Further details, field report and images when available. This is the twelvth formation reported now for this year. Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada _____________________________ Circle Phenomena in Canada Report Archive 1999: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html A reminder for all Canadian subscribers / readers - your assistance is welcome and needed - ANY reports of other possible circles this year, please do let us know as soon as possible! See Reporting and Field Research Guidelines on the web site for more information: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reporting.html REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522 _____________________________ CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International), and is published periodically or as breaking news develops, with the latest news and information and is available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or "unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.c CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions. Forward all correspondence to: CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Office Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 � Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 1999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 CPR-Canada News: More Circles - Acadia Valley, From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:59:09 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:21:13 -0400 Subject: CPR-Canada News: More Circles - Acadia Valley, CPR-Canada News News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 More Crop Circles - Acadia Valley, Alberta September 19, 1999 _____________________________ Editor: Paul Anderson _____________________________ Preliminary Report - September 19 By Paul Anderson Yet another crop circle formation reported this morning, by farmer Carl Kuhn at Acadia Valley, Alberta, near the Saskatchewan border. First found on September 4, while combining. Three circles in a duram wheat field. They are in a straight line, spaced about 10 feet apart. First two are about 30 feet in diametre, the largest on the right end is about 60 feet diametre. All have counterclockwise lay. In the largest circle, there are random single standing stalks of wheat, spaced about every two or three square feet, which show no signs of ever having been touched or flattened down. Farmer reported no damage, tracks or entry pathways, with very neat lay of the crop. Diagram attached (acadia99.gif) � Paul Anderson, CPR-Canada Further field report, images when available. This is the thirteenth formation reported now for this year. Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada _____________________________ Circle Phenomena in Canada Report Archive 1999: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html A reminder for all Canadian subscribers / readers - your assistance is welcome and needed - ANY reports of other possible circles this year, please do let us know as soon as possible! See Reporting and Field Research Guidelines on the web site for more information: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reporting.html REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522 _____________________________ CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International), and is published periodically or as breaking news develops, with the latest news and information and is available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or "unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.ca CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions. Forward all correspondence to: CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Office Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 � Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 1999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:03:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:30:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:57:58 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Bruce? Anybody? Have you seen pix or video of these white >spheres before? It's the same stuff that Tommy King shoots in >Arizona, others record over Mexico and many other countries >around the world. My shots of these objects are not unique or >singular. I have not seen pix/video of objects "guaranteed" to be spheres. However, spherical unknowns are well represented in the UFO literature. I suppose they are used to transport highly symmetrical (i.e., spherical) aliens. From your video picture I would say that we could estimate a diameter if we assumed a distance. Too bad there was no triangulation.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:55:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:37:48 -0400 Subject: Re: >From: Norio Hayakawa <GroomWatch@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:51:52 EDT >Subject: Re: Stealth Blimp >To: updates@globalserve.net <snip> >HOLOGRAPHIC PROJECTIONS AND HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE MAXIMIZATION >TECHNOLOGY <snip> >This type of technology is part of the Department of Defense >(DOD)'s emphais on Psychological Operations (PSYOPS) or >Psychological Warfare. >Recent's years' sightings of huge black triangular aircraft >(such as ovver Phoenix, Arizona in 1997) could possibly be >related to testing of such devices to observe the reactions of >the observers. If this technology is being tested on the American public (and it _is_), just _who_ does our government think is "the enemy"? I, personally, resent being used to test the effectiveness of any technology without my _informed_ consent. But then, what do they care about our rights? Fortunately, they are not as good as they think they are at fooling the American public... or anyone else. ;> Amy Home Page: "http://members.tripod.com/TheVanguard"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: John <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:27:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:29:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 Hi All, In the interest of 'keeping it honest' I am posting a response I wrote to an offer from a MUFON rep to investigate the sighting I reported. My response (below) speaks for itself. I figured I'd publish it myself before maybe someone else does who presents it as; "We offered to investigate but he refused!" Not so. The first legitimate offer I receive (as defined below) I will be happy to respond and cooperate fully. Just not with these jokers. The offer: >Re this sighting, would you be willing for MUFON to investigate it? >If so, please advise your name, address and phone no. Thanks. >(Name deleted) >State Director, (State deleted) MUFON Hi (Deleted), Thank you for your kind offer but, to be frank with you I think MUFON is a joke. I have way too many problems with it as an organization and as any kind of reliable investigative tool. I'll wait till I get an offer from a more academic source. Independant video/photographic experts with no agenda or stake in the outcome. Again, thank you for your generous offer but I'd rather turn the case over to the "Marx Brothers" before I'd ever get involved with MUFON! No need for reply. Regards, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: The Challenge From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:09:42 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:45:21 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:28:51 -0700 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Lynne Bishop <lynnebishop@softhome.net> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:55:24 EDT >>Subject: Re: The Challenge >>To: updates@globalserve.net Hello, Lynne, >John Velez said <snipped for brevity>: >>Everyone should take the time to write to Budd Hopkins, David >>Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, John Carpenter et al and -ask >>them- to collectively contribute any materials they may be in >>possession of that may help to advance what little is known >>about UFO abductions. If it turns out that they _don't_ have >>anything of value in stock then that fact should also be known. >>KRandle responded: >>I think you might have found the problem. There is nothing in >>stock of value. >Sir, your post is primarily well-written, but this comment >prejudges data and information that you are not privy to at this >time. Prejudging the data is incorrect, regardless of one's >personal spin on the abduction phenomenon. Actually, I have been privy to a great deal of that information and it is not conclusive. Besides, I was merely suggesting that John Velez might be right when he suggested that if there was nothing of value hidden away, we should be aware of that as well. We have all heard about the important evidence that is just around the corner, that universities and laboratories are investigating and that those results will be made known as soon as they are available, yet the results are rarely made available. That should raise a few red flags as well. I think here of all the times that I have been told that a piece of the debris from Roswell, or photographs of the crash site, can be found. I have spent a great deal of time chasing down those rumors only to find at the end there is still another step. Somehow that debris is always just out of reach. Now we hear about the policeman from Illinois that might has seen the metal, and the rancher near Vaughn who has something that is like no Earthly metal. Of course, we have be unable to get to the debris for analysis. And, what of the metal that was announced so publicly in Roswell in 1997 that hasn't been heard of since... Except for the scientist who told me two months later that announcing the results had been premature. The point is, I think John was right when he said that we need to know if there is nothing of value hidden away. >KRandle also said: >>Okay, but be open to the alternative explanations. >This cuts both ways. Absolutely, but before we embrace a new point of view we should require that there be solid evidence for it. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:15:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:14:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:44:31 -0400 >From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> >Subject: Berwyn Watch 1 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, >The hunt for evidence of a genuine crashed UFO of ET origin >has generated a great deal of controversy since 1947. >To date the UK has held little of interest for the crashed >saucer buff, with The Rendlesham Forest case being the only >possible contender. However this case has failed to develop into >anything other than a confused mish-mash of claim and counter >-claim. <snip> Brilliant idea! My best guess is this; 1 - The supporters of this non-event will claim that the "crash retrieval" took place on a different night. 2 - They'll claim that there were sightings leading up to the crash in the preceding 6 months. 3 - There was a 'big military build up' on or around the same dates. 4 - The biggest threat came from, and continues to come from, so-called 'alien bacteriological material; it poses a threat to us all. 5 - Bodies were recovered and taken to Porton Down (nowadays the Protection and Life Sciences Division). 6 - The proponents of this nonsense cannot names their sources. 7 - They have been in contact with a group of 'unnamed soldiers' who have pointed them in the right direction and who claim to know the exact location of the incident. 8 - Anybody who disagrees with them is a government agent/intelligence operative. 9 - The government and its' ministers have incorporated the retrieved technology into classified UKUSA programmes. 10 - At secret - and possibly unnamed - facilities in the UK and elsewhere researchers are trying to develop an antidote to the toxins brought here by the 'Berwyn EBEs'. Tim Matthews. ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:43:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:04:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:17:30 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT >>Bruce Maccabee, you continue to be an embarrassment to the >>field of ufology. You very well know that William G.Hyzer has >>proven that Photograph #19 was a double exposure. Yours and >>MUFON's contentions that there was a dent in the hood, that the >>top of the hood was muddy, that there were bricks in the back >>of the truck, luminosity coming down the road� all these >>contentions are just that: contentions. >I am not sure if I agree with Mr. Black that Dr. Maccabee (what >is your degree in?) is an embarrassment. But I think he hurt >his credibility with the Gulf Breeze case...for starters. >> >I think it is suspicious that over time the Anti-Walters camp >found a loop-hole in his story. >Dr. Maccabee came up with another "why it is" story. i.e "Its >that bricks... no, its the dent, no its the mud...." A good >investigator would have already been aware of this and figured >it into the investigation at the time, not upon criticism.> I have a Ph.D. in physics. The bent hood and blocks in the back end of th truck.and the lack of a reflection in th hood were all thoroughly researched in the summer of 1988, two years before Mr. Black came onto the scene with Hyzer. My work and the independent work of Mr. Sainio (who didn't write any book chapter and was not paid one cent by anyone) has shown the Hyzer's analysis was incomplete and at least in one case just plain wrong (Hyzer's explanation of photo 1). >>William G. Hyzer, with all of his sophisticated equipment, has >>proven that there was no luminosity coming down the road, >>contradicting Jeff Sainio's contention with 12-years of >>experience in the field of photographic analysis. Note here that Black refer's to Sainio's detection of luminance along the road. Sainio worked with the original negative, Hyzer with a copy. Sainio's analysis was completely independent of mine. He has shot down a number of UFO photos an videos (as have I), but he was not able to punch holes in Ed's photos. Sainio told me he was particularly impressed with the fact that Ed, the notorious hoaxer he was supposed to be, would allow the originals ou of his (Ed's) control where all sorts of tests could be done to test for fakery. With all due respect to Mr. Hyzer and experience, the fact is that photo analysis experience is not all it takes in UFO investigation. >>You continue to use a smear tactic on Photograph's 1 through 5. >>The only thing, Bruce Maccabee, that has been smeared in the >>last 10 to 15 years has been your reputation. Your dubious >>analysis of the New Zealand video, your ridiculous analysis of >>the Guardian video [to which later, one of MUFON's top >>investigators in Canada, Tom Theofanous, had proven to be a >>hoax], and lastly, your ridiculous investigation of the Gulf >>Breeze case. As I stated before, these crossover's in ufology >>are ridiculous. I have responded to these allegations of "ridiculous analysis." In particular I would challenge Mr. Black and all the photo analysts he wants to bring along to challenge my analysis of the New Zealand film. >>As far as I'm concerned, anyone who accepts $20,000.00 in an >>ongoing investigation should disqualify himself from further >>involvement with the case. Realizing, of course, that Walt >>Andrus would never have the professionalism to dismiss you, you >>should have been disqualified from any further investigation of >>this case upon acceptance of this sum of money. Also, your good >>>$5,000.00 early-on in the investigation for some work he did on >>the Ed Walters' photographs, which obviously had nothing to do >with evaluating the Gulf Breeze case. >Mr. Black is correct. Taking the money puts DBM motives in >question. It doesn't matter when he took the money, the deal >could have been cut long before the case was completed. The >honorable thing to do would been to refuse any payment.> There was no book "deal" until months after my presentation at the MUFON symposium in July , 1988. Anyone who wants the status of the investigation long before there was a book contract should read "A History of the Gulf Breeze Sightings" available from the Fund for UFO Research. >As for Mr. Oeschler, didn't he take that money allegedly for >having some photos reprinted? Seems to me that it would not >have cost $5,000 to do what he did. More of the disinformation or lack of information spread by Mr. Black and others. This has been explained numerous times in the past 9 years. Oechsler hired another photo expert and together they carefully cleaned the original Polaroid photos of Ed, then they proveeded to make literally hundreds of prints and slides from the originals, taking care to eliminate glare and obtain perfect focus. It took weeks and the materials and lab time cost $$$. >>So it turns out that Ed Walters, in the end, had two people >>indebted to him: Bruce Maccabee and Bob Oeschler. >>So I would say that with your three strikes, Bruce Maccabee, >>that you should be out: New Zealand, Guardian and Gulf Breeze. Sorry, I'll stick with what I have written about these cases. >>Jerome Clark can continue to say that he has all the respect in >>the world for your intelligence, your knowledge and your >>ability. But if he's talking about this in relation to ufology, >>he does not know what he is talking about. This is why I am >>going to add Jerome Clark's name to the list of "The Old Boy's >>Club." This is a clique where nothing derogatory is said about >>another member, no matter how badly their cases are investigated >>or what ridiculous statements they make. They simply do not >>speak ill of one another, and these are: Stanton Friedman, Budd >>Hopkins, Bruce Maccabee, Walt Andrus, and now Jerome Clark. >Its a matter of survival. In the Press Corps, if you come out >and say something the President does not like, it could be >totally true, but not liked, then you are out on your ear. No >more White House assignments... thats the kiss of death. The >same holds true for the Good Ole Boys in the UFO community. Its >very important to not say anything bad (but true) about anyone >else in the club because it might put you on the outside and >that might mean not getting some morsel of "valuable" info... >"left out of the loop" so to speak. > This a crock. People in the ufo community criticize each other all the time. Unfortunately it is hard to find anything abou Mr. Black to criticize because, so far as I know, he has only commented on Gulf Breeze and the Travis Walton case (where he used "lie detection" to prove it actually happened..... although there are ufologists who don't accept lie detection as a valid means of determining truth.) <snip> >>It is a shame that you, Bruce Maccabee, had to >>co-author your first book with Ed Walters, who is >>responsible for one of the most elaborate UFO >>hoaxes of the 90's. You have embarrassed yourself, >>and have embarrassed the UFO community. If you say so, Jerry. On th other hand, anyone who is thinking of "falling" for Jerry's invective should read 'UFOs Are Real Here's The Proof'. You'll find a lot more physical analysis in there than in any of Jerry's polemics. >>Finally, in your comments about Art Hufford you said that he >>still may have seen the same thing Ed Walters photographed - you >>are missing the point. He couldn't have seen the same thing >>unless the Ed Walter's UFO had portable windows. Given your >>readiness to accept the claim of Ed Walters, I am assuming that >>you believe this to be a possibility too. Regardless, there is >>no way that Art Hufford saw the same object seen in Ed's >>pictures. First of all, Ed's were models, and secondly, even if >>you believe in Ed Walters, there were no windows in the UFO seen >>by Art Hufford. And to this day, an article just recently listed >>in the Pensacola Journal, he states the same ridiculous >>statement again: "I saw the same thing in the Ed Walters >>photograph." The case of the wanna-believers in Gulf Breeze goes >>on and on and on. >>But most importantly, Bruce Maccabee, you stated in your letter >>that there were two other people, a man and a woman, plus a >>genteman named Truman Holcombe , who had a good view of an >>object that they perceived to be the same object in the Gulf >>Breeze photograph. But as I stated earlier, the only issue I had >>with Art Hufford is that he was an investigator on the case. It >>would have made no difference if Hufford did see windows on the >>object, because each case is handled individually - on its own. >>Just because Art Hufford may have seen an object with windows in >>it or had perceived it to be the same shape and size of the Ed >>Walters object, this does not mean Ed Walters photographs are >>genuine. The same goes for the other three people; just because >>they felt as if they had seen something similar to the Gulf >>Breeze photographs does not vindicate Ed Walters. The >>conclusions to be drawn from the Gulf Breeze case are based on >>the evidence presented by Ed Walters only. Each case stands on There were very credible "other people": who said thy saw the same thing. Dr. Fenner McConnell and wife, Ray Pollack and two others, etc. I know this sticks in Jerry's craw, but the fact is that Ed was not alone in reporting the strange UFO. He was the only one who took numerous pictures, however. <snip> >Interestingly, in all the pictures that Ed Walters took at his >home, not one neighbor ever reported seeing any objects that Ed >Walters photographed. Not one. There again, that does not mean >that Ed Walters photographs are not real, but it is interesting >to note that not one neighbor saw any object that Ed Walters >photographed. Wrong. the people across the street had a sighting in early April. >Mr. Black makes some important points and he should not be >dismissed. >Terry Evans Why is it that people repeat Jerry's critical comments without quoting my rebuttal? I have responded to Jerry's invective numerous times over the last five or six years. Perhaps you missed my message which I posted to UpDates on Sept 13? There is a more complete response in that message which you can find in the archive at ufomind.com [see: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/sep/m14-001.shtml]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:28:56 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:09:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:17:30 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT >>Bruce Maccabee, you continue to be an embarrassment to the >>field of ufology. You very well know that William G.Hyzer has >>proven that Photograph #19 was a double exposure. Yours and >>MUFON's contentions that there was a dent in the hood, that the >>top of the hood was muddy, that there were bricks in the back >>of the truck, luminosity coming down the road� all these >>contentions are just that: contentions. >I am not sure if I agree with Mr. Black that Dr. Maccabee (what >is your degree in?) is an embarrassment. But I think he hurt >his credibility with the Gulf Breeze case...for starters. <snip> >Mr. Black makes some important points and he should not be >dismissed. >Terry Evans Dear Terry & List Mr. Black _is_ dismissed, not by virtue of what is right about what he writes, but about what is wrong. And (in my opinion at least) what is wrong is; rather than elucidate, he obfuscates. It's easy to tear down. Right or wrong, it's easy to tear down. The hard part is like the story Humpty Dumpty. It's so hard to rebuild. And it seems that rather than share and cooperate, in this business, we mutilate one the other. Congratulations to one and all. You've done a fine job. Consider each and every one of us, duly mutilated. Shoot, I may not be the coldest beer in the Fridge, but I aint warm. Jim Mortellaro, crazy, proud, bent, folded but never mutilated.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: The Challenge From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:57:58 _0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:13:23 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:28:51 _0700 >To: UFO UpDates _ Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Lynne Bishop <lynnebishop@softhome.net> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:55:24 EDT >>Subject: Re: The Challenge >>To: updates@globalserve.net >Hello, Dr. Randle, >>>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 _0400 >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>>Subject: The Challenge >John Velez said <snipped for brevity>: >>>Everyone should take the time to write to Budd Hopkins, David >>>Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, John Carpenter et al and _ask >>>them_ to collectively contribute any materials they may be in >>>possession of that may help to advance what little is known >>>about UFO abductions. If it turns out that they _don't_ have >>>anything of value in stock then that fact should also be known. >KRandle responded: >>I think you might have found the problem. There is nothing in >>stock of value. >Sir, your post is primarily well_written, but this comment >prejudges data and information that you are not privy to at this >time. Prejudging the data is incorrect, regardless of one's >personal spin on the abduction phenomenon. >KRandle also said: >>Okay, but be open to the alternative explanations. >This cuts both ways. Hi Lynne. Couldn't have said better or with any more class myself. Apparently a Ph.D in psychology does not preclude prejudice (or even the display of condescention) in the holder of the degree. _Always_ and in _any_ of Kevin's responses to my posts he has been unable to restrain his expressions of condescension. Makes me wonder what has him feeling so 'defensive'. He admonishes me repeatedly to "be open to alternate explanations". The mantra-like repitition of this phrase by Kevin makes me wonder if he's really talking to me, or to himself! Hey, in the spirit of returning the favor I have a few "catch phrases" for Kevin. "All _projections_ are valid!" "Doctor" heal thyself! And, . . . waxing Biblical if I may: (Paraphrase) "Judge not, lest ye be judged!" "Remove the log from thine own eye, before pointing out the splinter in anothers eyes. Kevin, the last thing I want is to get involved in online pissing contests with you (or anyone else for that matter) I'd really prefer it if you didn't respond to _any_ of my postings in future. Honest, I won't miss your input. Sincerely, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if_aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:27:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:16:25 -0400 Subject: Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs >From: Royce J. Myers III <evidence@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:07:06 PDT >>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:19:07 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >>Subject: A Debunkers' Guide To UFOs >The astronomer, Dr. Jacqueline Mitton, has obviously not studied >any of the literature, done any first-hand investigation and has >not studied a single bit of the massive physical evidence >regarding UFOs. Sorry, but she very clearly has. Just because she has reached different conclusions to you (and to some extent to myself) does not mean she is unfamiliar. I can assure you that she told me first hand of how she has read the UFO literature such as it is available in the UK and whilst there is surely much US litetrature she has not seen, thats a start. So whatever else you think this is an incorrect criticism. Best wishes, Jenny Randles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Timothy Good "Timothy Cooper Behind MJ-12 From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:27:37 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:23:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Timothy Good "Timothy Cooper Behind MJ-12 >Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:55:42 +0100 >From: Anthony Chippendale <ufo-net@clara.net> >To: To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Important MJ-12 Announcement >I have just returned from day 2 of this years Leeds >International UFO Conference hosted by UFO Magazine (UK) and I >can exclusively reveal to you that the MJ-12 documents are >fakes. This afternoon leading UFO researcher Timothy Good gave >an interactive lecture with the audience and revealed that he >thinks, with proof, that Timothy Cooper is behind the MJ-12 >Documents. I will have more details in a full report to follow. Hi, I imagine a writ for defamation is being drawn up somewhere for Mr Good as we speak - he has a lot of money. Presumably there is no choice after such a public claim - since when I suggested 10 years ago that the MJ-12 documents were in my view a fake (citing personal reasons) I was immediately put through a year of legal hell by ufology in a way for which I am still paying. I shall watch what happens now with interest. Best wishes, Jenny Randles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:55:01 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:22:53 -0400 Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:31:36 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> >Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> >>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:58:16 +0100 ><snippage> >G'day Ms Randles, >>I wanted to advise that I did a radio programme in Sheffield >>with Dr Mitton today. She was charming, well informed and >>objective. The press stories have not done her justice >She might well be charming and well informed but then, there's >the matter of this section in the press release that Stig >posted: >"Since then interest in UFOs had grown to become a worldwide >obsession, said Dr Mitton. But she is convinced every sighting >can be explained by natural or man-made phenomena." >I would not call her entirely "objective". Can she even tell the >difference between geese and pelicans? >I think it's great that a credentialed scientist jumps into the >fray. Let her roll her up sleeves, stow away her pre-conceived >notions and get to work. >Don Hi, I think you have to bear in mind the way the media polarise opinions. I would never judge anyone from what a newspaper says they believe. I can only go off the two way conversations and radio programme we did. Yes, she is sceptical. Yes, her geese opinion for Arnold is contentious (I dont support it but its not implausible). But I dont think she disputes that there are unsolved cases. Only that they are unsolvable. She is certain entirely opposed to the ETH, but open minded enough to accept some cases could offer new science. And she is far more aware of the UFO evidence than any of the media touted sceptics often presented here in the UK. As such she is a worthy opponent for any thinking ufologist as opposed to some of the scientists set up on TV as experts who could not tell a CE 1 from a coconut. In the UK we are happy to debate evidence with critics. It is how ufology grows. I am simply reporting my delight that we finally have someone who has bothered to do some actual research before appearing in front of a camera claiming to know it all. I dont expect you to agree with all she says. I certainly dont. But I already respect her and thats a starting point we should not desert by needless attacks on this woman. I think she will listen to good evidence and that attitiude needs cultivating not crucifying. Best wishes, Jenny Randles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@ukgateway.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:40:25 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:29:29 -0400 Subject: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting Dear Errol, Would you please put this message out on the list in the hope that someone can help Brian. He is giving a talk on this event and wants to confirm the date. From: Brian Grindrod <grindrod@omen.com.au> To: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Subject: UFO sighting research Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:50:39 +0800 Dear John, I am researching a particular Large Craft UFO sighting that occured over Christchurch in 1979-80. This event was big news at the time with 100's of witnesses and much media coverage for a few days before it was explained away as the reflection of a fishing fleet etc. Given the number of witnesses I feel there will be quite a few people who will be willing to come forward with their experiences and in particular the date of this Sat evening event. Can you help? Kind regards, Brian Grindrod. PERTH W.A. -------------- Thanks in advance, John Hayes ufoinfo@ukgateway.net webmaster@ufoinfo.com UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com Archives for UFO Roundup/Filer's Files/UK UFO Network Bulletin/ AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 'Phenomena!' From: Anthony Chippendale <ufo-net@clara.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:27:24 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:26:29 -0400 Subject: 'Phenomena!' At this weekend's (17-19 Sept) 18th Leeds International UFO Conference in England, UFO Magazine (UK) have announced a brand new international exhibition to be launched in Australia at the end of the year. This exhibition, named Phenomena! will travel the world bringing the world of UFOlogy to the general public in a format that they can understand. This exhibition will be like nothing seen before. More information at: http://www.ufo-net.clara.net Anthony Chippendale, http://www.ufo-net.clara.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 The Mind Boggles From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:24:11 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:37:57 -0400 Subject: The Mind Boggles Bear with it, this interesting story does relate to space. ******** How Specs Live Forever ********* The US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates. Why did the English people build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used. Why did "they" use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing. Okay! Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing the wagons would break on some of the old, long distance roads, because that's the spacing of the old wheel ruts. So who built these old rutted roads? The first long distance roads in Europe were built by Imperial Rome for the benefit of their legions. The roads have been used ever since. And the ruts? The initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagons, were first made by Roman war chariots. Since the chariots were made for or by Imperial Rome they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Thus, we have the answer to the original questions. The United State standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original specification (Military Spec) for an Imperial Roman army war chariot. Mil Specs and Bureaucracies live forever. So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's rump came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because the Imperial Roman chariots were made to be just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two war horses. There's an interesting extension of the story about railroad gauge and horses' behinds. When we see a Space Shuttle sitting on the launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are the solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at a factory in Utah. The engineers who designed the SRBs might have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line to the factory runs through a tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than a railroad track, and the railroad track is about as wide as two horses' behinds. So a major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined by the width of a horse's backside. -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Stealth Blimp From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:55:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:40:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Stealth Blimp >From: Norio Hayakawa <GroomWatch@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:51:52 EDT >Subject: Re: Stealth Blimp >To: updates@globalserve.net <snip> >HOLOGRAPHIC PROJECTIONS AND HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE MAXIMIZATION >TECHNOLOGY <snip> >This type of technology is part of the Department of Defense >(DOD)'s emphais on Psychological Operations (PSYOPS) or >Psychological Warfare. >Recent's years' sightings of huge black triangular aircraft >(such as ovver Phoenix, Arizona in 1997) could possibly be >related to testing of such devices to observe the reactions of >the observers. If this technology is being tested on the American public (and it _is_), just _who_ does our government think is "the enemy"? I, personally, resent being used to test the effectiveness of any technology without my _informed_ consent. But then, what do they care about our rights? Fortunately, they are not as good as they think they are at fooling the American public... or anyone else. ;> Amy Home Page: "http://members.tripod.com/TheVanguard"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Meandering Thoughts From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:10:22 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:33:23 -0400 Subject: Meandering Thoughts Meandering thoughts Many people have asked a now famous question; Are we being visited by beings from other planets? Soon followed is; What do our governments know about the situation? What is rarely asked is; Do the governments of the world collaborate on this? Well do they? I doubt it. But what if they did?? At the height of the cold war, it was doubtful that the FBI spoke to the CIA or the KGB spoke to the Kremlin, so the likelihood of the worlds governments talking to each other over what would appear to be a global problem seems almost impossible. But since the cold war has been lost by both sides and the Berlin wall crumbled under the impressive weight of commercialism, is it possible that the worlds governments might now just be talking bout these objects asking frank questions like; Are they yours? The answer could be yes just as often as no. I am damn sure that the military of all countries involved spied on the other countries with as much vigilance as their neighbours. As I sit here listening to "Stairway to heaven, by Far Corporation" I am reminded about this ideal world that everyone would like to aspire to, and I ask myself why the secrecy? Before I try to answer this question I would like to add a few more thoughts to the boiling pot. "We" the UFO researchers have abundant evidence that we have been visited for thousands of years. There are pictograms and tales of fires in the skies from ages now long dead. Was the governments of the world in ages long gone so secret? I can't believe the "primitive savages" theories when discoveries are constantly made by archaeologists that make them ask how did they do that? So just because their technology was different how do we know what they knew? Did they have some answers? Did they communicate with the visitors? Did they tell their peoples? Or did they to keep secrets? but to the biggie, if, and that's a big if, we have been visited for thousands of years and the sightings have been investigated all this time, (poo, poo to modern ufology being a new game,) why do we the general public not have any answers? Surely a secret this big must have leaked at least some by now? We know that they had the means to investigate then because of the stories of glowing demons and fires in the skies. Does not Egypt boast the oldest written language? All seven thousand years of it. In these writings we have communications from ages past that reveal deities that walked on air, gods that had chariots that flew through the sky. Makes you wonder doesn't it. Secrecy, the need for it? Hold on before we go any further, how come when all the governments of the world can never agree on anything do they _all_ deny the knowledge of UFO's? Hmm, just a thought. Or is it that the media is restricted in what it can print? Are there some countries on this globe that are public in their research of the UFO phenomenon? Can we contact them if we knew who they where? OK lets assume that the great western alliance, that is the rich first world countries, are all in cahoots and that the UFO subject is kept under wraps, why? Small question, big answer. One answer might be because of the "damage" that it could do to the fiscal world. Another could be because of the repercussions in the religion industry. Or perhaps Joe Q Public is plain just not ready for it. But who decides when he/she is ready for it? So back to my starting point,; What if the worlds governments communicated over the UFO phenomenon. Can you imagine it, President Clinton saying to Tony Blair I'll tell you all about Roswell if you tell me about Rendelsham. Perhaps the king of Norway would chip in, well I'll tell you all about the Foo fighters then. I'd give my right arm to be a fly on the wall to that meeting! The big question is not are we being visited, I believe, I have to say believe because I very much doubt that I will ever hold in my hands conclusive proof of ET, that we are. As to what our governments know about the situation, well you can be damn sure its more than they are telling. And the big question, are they communicating over this global subject is most probably, NO! As I try to bring my meandering thought to some sort of conclusion I wonder where I've been and how I got here, but one thing is certain, its been an interesting journey. Just some thoughts from a nobody with no PhD's. -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: 1937 UFO crash in Germany From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:22:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:43:41 -0400 Subject: Re: 1937 UFO crash in Germany >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:40:39 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: 1937 UFO crash in Germany >This e-mail is in regards to your August 12 posting to UFO >UpDates requesting information on a possible 1937 UFO crash in >Germany. >There is a published account of a 1937 UFO crash that occurred >in Czernica which was occupied by Germany at the time. A full >page article on this UFO crash can be found in UFO Magazine >(UK), Vol. 17 No. 4 (November/ December 1998), page 16. >It is reported the crash occurred in a field owned by the >parents of Eva Braun, the woman who eventually married Adolph >Hitler (who's scientists and engineers shortly afterwards >developed disk shaped planes). Hi Listmembers, Is anyone sure that this story is not a Weekly World News joke which found its way to UFO Magazine? Eva Braun and Hitler - what a thing! :( Werner Walter Germany
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Christchurch - New Zealand UFO Report 1977/1978 From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:33:07 +1200 (NZST) Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:58:13 -0400 Subject: Christchurch - New Zealand UFO Report 1977/1978 >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:40:25 +0100 >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@ukgateway.net> >Subject: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >Dear Errol, >Would you please put this message out on the list in the >hope that someone can help Brian. He is giving a talk on >this event and wants to confirm the date. >From: Brian Grindrod <grindrod@omen.com.au> >To: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> >Subject: UFO sighting research >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:50:39 +0800 >Dear John, >I am researching a particular Large Craft UFO sighting that >occured over Christchurch in 1979-80. Greetings List I have started looking for any references (in my files) relavant to this report. Regards Email : murrayb@win.co.nz Voice : 64-9-6345285 Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:44:18 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:06:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:44:31 -0400 >From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> >Subject: Berwyn Watch 1 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, >Andy Wrote: >>The collapse of Rendlesham as a crashed UFO case has left the >>post X-Files generation of UK ufologists desparate for a >>credible 'British Roswell' and to that end various stories and >>rumours have been rehabilitated, the most prominent of which is >>the so-called 'Berwyn Mountain UFO Crash'. Hi All & Andy, I didn't realize Rendlesham was now considered a "Non UFO Case"? Who was responsible for the final nail in the coffin then? Only I know there are possibly a few people on this list who think Rendlesham was a major UFO case. BTW; What Post Generation group do you put yourself in? <LoL> Regards, Roy..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: UFO over English Channel? From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:28:58 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:03:04 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO over English Channel? >>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:01:18 -0400 >>From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> >>Subject: UFO over English Channel? >>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> Andy Wrote: >>Top quality research from David there no rubbish about 'rolling >>projects', no need to belong to a group of mind controlling >>charlatans - just one person getting some co-operation from a >>few others. Result? Case closed in a few weeks. Hi All & Andy, Sorry about my not getting the point here, but I thought David was looking for Researchers from around the UK to enquire about this piece of film? Only David did post the original message on updates informing everyone about the film? I didn't think for one moment David was trying to outsmart anyone with this let alone BUFORA? I don't know perhaps Dave could tell us if this was the case? I was under the impression that Dave was putting this out purely for researchers interest in a piece of UFO film taken on board a plane by a member of a family? Sorry to be naive but I didn't realize this film footage was the basis of a competition, but one of finding out what was on the tape. Kind Regards, Roy..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: The Challenge From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:31:16 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:54:53 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >>Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:24:51 -0700 (PDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >>Subject: Re: The Challenge >>I can only go from memory myself, but do recall such cases as 1) >>a metal fragment that Ray Stanford had analyzed (but apparently >>only for general composition, not isotopic analysis?) >>2) the fragment given to that young Asst.(?) Prof. at UC San >>Diego (?) who found some unearthly isotopic ratios, though his >>identification of one of them was in error, as he later >>admitted, which had made it seem like an impossibility >That was Russell Vernon Clark. Now go to 13) Thanks, Henny, I keep forgetting his name. >>.... >13) Fragments analyzed by Dr. Valeri Dvuzhilni of the Russian >Academy of Sciences >On January 29 1986, an object described as a sphere of light, >was seen crossing the Pacific region north of Vladivostok. Many >people in and around Primorsky Kray peninsula saw its flight. >Villagers of Dalnegorsk heard an explosion and plotted the >impact point to the side of a mountain kwown as Hill 611. Trees >were set on fire and the area was devastated. The object >disintegrated upon impact. >Scientists of the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow visited >the area and collected peculiar pieces of metal, magnetized >flint and nets. Analysis indicated that the metals in the debris >had an unusually high purity. Among other things an unidentified >type of chromium was present. Gold wires were found that were >insulated with quartz. Dr. Valery Dvuzhilni, head of the >research team, has stated in an interview with UFO researcher >George Knapp that after three years of research he had concluded >the debris was of extraterrestrial origin. He published a 300 >page scientific report about the case that, until now, has not >been released for public distribution by Russian authorites. >... It would be great if you were sufficiently interested and perhaps could team up with a U.S. researcher of equal calibre to make it a joint project. It would be desirable to have the results eventually be placed in a book or web site. Regards, Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Swedish Crash In Mid-September '99? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 05:43:01 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:19:01 -0400 Subject: Swedish Crash In Mid-September '99? Source: "alt.ufo.reports". Stig *** From: "reader" <email@nospam.oulu.fi> Newsgroups: alt.ufo.reports Subject: Ufo crash to a lake in Sweden? Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:17:24 +0300 Hi, Any Swedes here? I read from local (Finnish) paper that Swedish military searched crashed object from a lake in Sweden on last week or so (mid sep 1999). - They found nothing, but many eyewitnesses told that they saw oval object did dive to the lake. Local "911" alarmed military. Did I miss the report? >From where can I read more? -AP-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:52:36 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:49:34 -0400 Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:55:01 +0100 >>Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:31:36 -0600 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> >>Subject: Re: British Astronomer: Belief In UFOs 'Damaging' G'day Jenny, >>"Since then interest in UFOs had grown to become a worldwide >>obsession, said Dr Mitton. But she is convinced every sighting >>can be explained by natural or man-made phenomena." >I think you have to bear in mind the way the media polarise >opinions. I would never judge anyone from what a newspaper says >they believe. I can only go off the two way conversations and >radio programme we did. Certainly I can believe that the media can introduce a bias or slant opinions. But did she, in fact, state that she is convinced that every sighting can be explained by natural or man-made phenomena? Is that an accurate quote or did the press reporter take liberties with her words? ? I want to understand this point clearly. >Yes, she is sceptical. Yes, her geese >opinion for Arnold is contentious (I dont support it but its not >implausible). But I dont think she disputes that there are I understand your position here. I know this is probably a niggling point, but I'm trying to educe where she got her "geese" information from and what facts she based her conclusions. I realize you cannot speak for her and I'm only asking from your own knowledge, if you know. >unsolved cases. Only that they are unsolvable. She is certain >entirely opposed to the ETH, but open minded enough to accept >some cases could offer new science. And she is far more aware of >the UFO evidence than any of the media touted sceptics often >presented here in the UK. As such she is a worthy opponent for >any thinking ufologist as opposed to some of the scientists set >up on TV as experts who could not tell a CE 1 from a coconut. Good points and thank you for making them. >In the UK we are happy to debate evidence with critics. It is >how ufology grows. I am simply reporting my delight that we >finally have someone who has bothered to do some actual research >before appearing in front of a camera claiming to know it all. I >dont expect you to agree with all she says. I certainly dont. >But I already respect her and thats a starting point we should >not desert by needless attacks on this woman. I think she will >listen to good evidence and that attitiude needs cultivating not >crucifying. It's not my intent to be contentious here, only querying what I read in the press release as to her objectivity. As I stated before I think it's wonderful she's willing to jump into the fray and bring her credentials to this field. It would really be great if we can get her on the List and get some discussion going. Regards, Don http://www.fwpd.net/dona/tesla/teslacoil.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:31:54 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:52:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:43:56 -0400 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT Hi Bruce, >>>William G. Hyzer, with all of his sophisticated equipment, has >>>proven that there was no luminosity coming down the road, >>>contradicting Jeff Sainio's contention with 12-years of >>>experience in the field of photographic analysis. >Note here that Black refer's to Sainio's detection of luminance >along the road. Sainio worked with the original negative, Hyzer >with a copy. Sainio's analysis was completely independent of >mine. He has shot down a number of UFO photos an videos (as have >I), but he was not able to punch holes in Ed's photos. >Sainio told me he was particularly impressed with the fact that >Ed, the notorious hoaxer he was supposed to be, would allow the >originals ou of his (Ed's) control where all sorts of tests >could be done to test for fakery. With all due respect to Mr. >Hyzer and experience, the fact is that photo analysis experience >is not all it takes in UFO investigation. I think this is a very important point that tends to be overlooked in the rest of the hubris - that Ed allowed the originals to be tested. If Ed was such a hoaxer he wouldn't have gained anything by doing that. Did Billy Meier do that? Uh, I don't think so. I tend to believe that Ed Walters had real experiences and that his photos, although extremely controversial, were not faked. I don't know if this is directly pertinent but when I was in GB in 1992 and witnessed the red light UFO along with Bob Oechsler, Steven Greer and about 100 others, Ann Morrison told me that she and her husband had lots of videotapes of the GB UFO. I don't recall if they included the Ed Walters variety. I also don't recall the names, but it seems to me that someone else also witnessed the Ed Walters type UFO, from years ago. The biggest problem I see with videotape and photographic evidence is that it will always be challenged as to it's authenticity and analysis methodology. That's why it's my opinion that UFO photographs make poor evidence. I personally would put more credence in the testimony of multiple witnesss corroboration of a sighting than a crystal clear photograph, which will always be under suspicion, even if proven with a gazillion dollars worth of high-tech photo analysis to be completely legitimate. I think it's unfair, but you will probably have to put up with this kind of demeaning crap from your mealy-mouth detractors mainly because you have been so high profile on the Walters photo analysis. Of course, Jerry Black, Hyzer, et al., can always put up or shut up. Whoops! I guess that makes *me* one of the " UFO good ole boys" club for shooting my mouth off. I'm just tired of reading the same damned re-hash over and over and over. Regards, Don http://www.fwpd.net/dona/tesla/teslacoil.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:31:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:06:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:03:03 -0400 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:57:58 -0400 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >>Bruce? Anybody? Have you seen pix or video of these white >>spheres before? It's the same stuff that Tommy King shoots in >>Arizona, others record over Mexico and many other countries >>around the world. My shots of these objects are not unique or >>singular. >I have not seen pix/video of objects "guaranteed" to be spheres. >However, spherical unknowns are well represented in the UFO >literature. I suppose they are used to transport highly >symmetrical (i.e., spherical) aliens. >From your video picture I would say that we could estimate a >diameter if we assumed a distance. Too bad there was no >triangulation. Hi Bruce, I also got 5 photographs that were taken with a telephoto lens of fixed focal length. (500mm at f/11 using 400 ASA 35mm color Kodak film. The camera body was an old Pentax 35mm SLR) When I shot the photos the object had moved away from its stationary position, (directly overhead) and I also got several nearby TV antenna tines into the pix. The antenna in question was no more than 45 to 50 feet away from me. Knowing that distance, and the focal length of the lens used, figuring out 'size' should be do-able. I will post copies of any shots that came out on the list. I will be happy to send you the undeveloped roll if you like. I have been very ill and I haven't gone out to get the film processed yet. I'll wait until I hear from you before I do. Zap me a line and let me know what to do. Regards, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: 1937 UFO crash in Germany From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:46:46 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:55:09 -0400 Subject: Re: 1937 UFO crash in Germany >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:22:01 -0400 >From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: 1937 UFO crash in Germany >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:40:39 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >>To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: 1937 UFO crash in Germany >>There is a published account of a 1937 UFO crash that occurred >>in Czernica which was occupied by Germany at the time. A full >>page article on this UFO crash can be found in UFO Magazine >>(UK), Vol. 17 No. 4 (November/ December 1998), page 16. >>It is reported the crash occurred in a field owned by the >>parents of Eva Braun, the woman who eventually married Adolph >>Hitler (who's scientists and engineers shortly afterwards >>developed disk shaped planes). >Is anyone sure that this story is not a Weekly World News joke >which found its way to UFO Magazine? >Eva Braun and Hitler - what a thing! :( UFO Magazine (UK) doesn't need Weekly World News - it can produce its own joke stories perfectly well! -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:16:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:00:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:39:28 -0700 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:57:58 -0400 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >>Today at 3:47 pm there was a white, spherical object hovering >>directly over my house. It remained motionless for approximately >>45 seconds and then it (very) slowly began to move off in a >>South Easterly direction. >>I have asked before, and I'll ask again. Does anyone have any >>idea what these white spheres are? I am a highly skilled >>observer, (a couple of folks on this list will attest to that >>having spent some time with me skywatching) this thing moved in >>an anomalous way, (hovered in one spot and then moving in a slow >>straight path away from me) It was -not- a balloon, or a bird, >>or an airplane. Believe me, I know the difference. I have seen >>and recorded these objects for several years now. To date, no >>one can tell me 'what' they are. Mike responded: >John, I have heard a similar story which occurred in New York >City a couple of weeks ago. Video was shot of this large >shpere. I have not seen it yet, but hopefully will soon. I >cannot release any other details at this time at the request of >the person who took the film. >All I can say, is that I have ask a well known UFO Investigator >in the area to talk to the person and check out the video. I have heard from a couple of folks privately that related their own sightings of these 'white spheres' (for lack of a better description.) See PS. BTW, One of the notes came from a fairly experienced pilot/flyer. The 'spheres' are nothing new Mike. Guys like Tom King and many others worldwide have been recording them for years! Four or five years ago (on this very list) we were both posting copies of single frame captures from videos we had recorded (Tom in Arizona, and me in New York) of 'visually' _-identical_ objects. No one and I mean _no_one_ ever took the time to look at that stuff. As we speak, the original tapes are doing nothing more than collecting dust bunnies a few feet away from where I sit. At some point the accumulation of videotape and photos from all around the world may reach a point where they can no longer be ignored. ***Nick B: If you have video analysis capabilities at York, I have 8mm videotape and 35mm color film that needs to be looked at. Let me know if U can do. :) Please keep me posted about the New York sighting Mike. I may be able to corroborate the other report with the video and film that I shot. Show them a copy of the pix I posted and ask them if there is any similarity to what they saw. Include me in the info loop. The 'things' that I record are usually directly over my house. I have more than a casual/passing interest in getting them identified. :) Regards, John Velez PS - Re: White spheres I don't like using the term 'UFO' anymore. Mostly because of the many assumptions that get made automatically. Way too many folks nowadays read, "unidentified flying object" as, "alien flying saucer from outer space." Until it is _known_ 'what' these 'things' are I find it easier/better to use a simple description of the object rather than the 'loaded' term UFO. If it's ok I'll just call it what it looked like; a white sphere. I wanted to elaborate a little because I'm not out to "coin" any new phrases or 'buzzwords'. We've got enough of those thank you. Why, if I hear someone call an anomalous aerial object a "Light Ship" one more time - I'll toss my cookies. Turn down the 'noise level' says I. ;) I'm working at keeping anything that comes from me as simple and straightforward as I can manage. JV ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:39:20 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:09:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:40:25 +0100 >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@ukgateway.net> >Subject: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >Dear Errol, >Would you please put this message out on the list in the >hope that someone can help Brian. He is giving a talk on >this event and wants to confirm the date. >From: Brian Grindrod <grindrod@omen.com.au> >To: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> >Subject: UFO sighting research >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:50:39 +0800 >Dear John, >I am researching a particular Large Craft UFO sighting that >occured over Christchurch in 1979-80. >This event was big news at the time with 100's of witnesses and >much media coverage for a few days before it was explained away >as the reflection of a fishing fleet etc. >Given the number of witnesses I feel there will be quite a few >people who will be willing to come forward with their >experiences and in particular the date of this Sat evening >event. >Can you help? >Kind regards, > Brian Grindrod. > PERTH W.A. = = = = = = Dear John and Grindrod: I have only one sighting listed here on the *U* Database that might be relevant. This listing is for 27 OCT 1979 at Motunau Beach, Northeast of Christchurch on South Island. The time is not given here, but I entered 0630 hours (i.e. morning?) Some odd night-lights were seen, and photos were taken of these. According to some observers, they appeared to be attached to some roundish object, like two decks of windows or lights on the periphery. There are drawings or sketches in my original source, not now at hand, which is: Lumieres dans la Nuit (LDLN) issue #198. I would have to dig out that issue to provide more info. If this is not the proper sighting, it is quite possible that I never listed it due to the apparent explanation as the lights from shrimping boats (as I vaguely recall). I am copying this message directly to Brian. Best wishes - Larry Hatch = = = = = = = = = = =
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Christchurch - New Zealand UFO Report 1977/1978 From: Glennys Mackay <glenmack@thehub.com.au> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:33:46 +1000 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:49:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Christchurch - New Zealand UFO Report 1977/1978 >>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:40:25 +0100 >>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@ukgateway.net> >>Subject: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >>From: Brian Grindrod <grindrod@omen.com.au> >>To: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> >>Subject: UFO sighting research >>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:50:39 +0800 >>Dear John, >>I am researching a particular Large Craft UFO sighting that >>occured over Christchurch in 1979-80. >Greetings List >I have started looking for any references (in my files) relavant >to this report. Dear Errol, AS I was living in the area of Wairarapa (Masterton) 2 hours from Wellington, Nth Island NZ from 1960 - 1979. we had a great many sightings, in fact we had one land in our paddock behind our house at 4.45am 26th December 1978 and 1st January 1979 5.00am witnessed craft size of a large motor car cruising slowly along Grey Street, Martinborough this would have been approximately 10 to 12 feet above the road. At that time I was not aware that Mr. Quentin Fogerty was staying two houses up. This is the journalist that released to the world the amazing sightings all over New Zealand, particularly in the North Island across Cook Strait and also the top end of South Island. I have a number of clippings from the Dominion Newspaper Gisborne Herald, and Masterton newpaper. The sightings date from December 1978, January, 1979 through to March 1979. There was an ongoing investigation into the burnt hillside in Waimata Valley, Gisborne where a number of people were witnessed to the event and some young people had two hours of lost time. A family living in the valley experienced some strange events as a result of the experience.( A group of teenagers were camped on the hill when the craft landed. The burn marks were left for many months nothing would grow in the area and cattle avoided this part of the farm. In fact a Mr. Hamish McLean the Gisborne Ufologist described one particular craft as a 'multi-coloured craft he said it was a bowler hat shaped 100 metres from where he was watching it approached the group to with in 60 metres. A bright beam of light caused a dead tree trunk to radiate different coloured hues. A detailed break-down of the Gisborne phenomenon is contained in the April Edition 1978 of "New Zealand Space-View produced by the Director of New Zealand Scientific Space Research Group, Mr. Vic Harris of Pakuranga. The magazine states that craft were witnessed by several families of more than 20 people from Woodhill Forest, Warkworth On February 1st 1979 to as far away as Christchurh in the South Island. Heading in the Dominion Newspaper Wellington 'UFO Puzzle Continues - 100's Claim Sightings' dated January 12th 1979. At the time Bruce Cathie was fly crop dusting planes (DC3) out of Masterton, I am sure he could shed some light on the correct dates as he as written a number of books and done a lot of research. I would like to point out that there were so many sightings over the year. around Xmas 1978 people witnessed them coming out of the ocean near Riversdale beach while swimming also seen at CastlePoint. some were cigar shaped. Hope this helps you Brian, Regards, Glennys Mackay Cont.Dir. MUFON AUSTRALIA & NEW ZEALAND.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 UFO 'Researcher' Found Guilty Of Drug-Dealing From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:27:11 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:50:00 -0400 Subject: UFO 'Researcher' Found Guilty Of Drug-Dealing Dear All, Over the least 18 months you will have been aware of the controversy surrounding Maxwell Burns, a self-styled British Ufologist. He claimed, amongst other things, to be an 'abductee', a journalist, a former DJ, a respectable researcher and much more besides. Today, at Sheffield Crown Court he was found guilty of very serious drugs dealing charges and is now in prison awaiting sentencing. A small group of us in the UK warned that he was a dangerous, criminally-minded drug dealer. Our warnings were not taken seriously - even after it became public knowledge that Burns had been arrested and charged with the serious offense of "possessing 875 amphetamine tablets with intent to supply". Not surprisingly Burns claimed he'd never taken drugs, that he'd been 'set-up by the intelligence services' DESPITE the fact that he was caught in possession AND that his two co-conspirators pleaded guilty to the same charges! In recent months Burns had engaged in a lunatic smear campaign against myself, in conjunction with another dubious character called Larry O'Hara, and several other researchers who were trying to warn the UFO community about his criminal activities. Burns posted a variety of illiterate, libelous and defamatory material that indicated exactly what kind of person he was. The jury at Sheffield Crown Court soon realised that Burns was guilty on both counts - it's just a pity that his supporters within British and American Ufology - and we all know who they are - were blinded by his fifth-rate research, his lies and deception and the wild conspiracy fantasies that he forced upon us all. They will have to answer the inevitable charges of having supported a criminally-minded drug dealer who tried to flood Sheffield's streets with illegal substances. In addition, you may remember that the British UFO Research Association invited Burns to speak at one if its flagship London Lectures despite our warnings. Whilst there are some excellent workers within BUFORA some serious questions must now be asked of those who invited Burns to speak and who claimed that they were 'up-holding free speech'... Furthermore, serious questions will be asked of the Cornwall UFO Group, who, in their utter stupidity and in full knowledge of the facts, invited Burns to address their forthcoming Conference. If they need a decent speaker who does lectures of expenses only without recourse to criminality, threats and drug-dealing then I volunteer to replace Burns.... (It should be noted that Burns made threats, via a supposedly secret hotmail account, against both myself and my wife Lynda - now pregnant with our first child. He admitted that he'd sent the e-mails later on.) It's a pretty sad state of affairs when piece of drug-dealing trash like Burns can be taken seriously by researchers who frequently appear on TV documentaries and debates. Can we trust their judgement any longer? Can we take the fence-sitters, who gave Burns the benefit of the doubt even though his con-conspirators had pleaded guilty, seriously?? What does this say about Ufology and the lunatics who claim that Burns was 'set' up'? After all, in court Burns carried a folder with alien stickers all over it..... For two years, myself, David Clarke, Andy Roberts and a handful of others tried to tell people about Maxwell Burns - but to no avail. Perhaps next time we'll be taken rather more seriously. Tim Matthews.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Max Burns - Background From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:37:56 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:55:47 -0400 Subject: Max Burns - Background The 'Sheffield Star' newspaper by David Clarke and Roy Emery By day, harmless UFO buff Max Burns wrote about his own ''alien abduction." But by night the Sheffield city centre DJ was involved in the seedier world of drug dealing. Now he faces being abducted for real - courtesy of Her Majesty's Prisons. Burns, aged 37, became well-known to UFO enthusiasts on the internet where he described how he was "abducted" by aliens when he was youngster. Cheshire-born Burns said he wanted to act as a counsellor for other people who claimed they had been kidnapped by aliens. He claimed they left an "implant" in his leg and believed aliens were responsible for spreading ME - so-called yuppie flu - to people they abducted. Burns became convinced the police and security services had launched a massive cover up. In an article in a UFO fanzine, Burns wrote that he believed a flying saucer had shot down an RAF Tornado jet after a chase over the city in 1997. And he believed he was being followed by security services who were bugging his phone because of what he had discovered about the case. Burns claimed he was involved in probing what he calls "the Sheffield UFO incident" when he was arrested on suspicion of drug dealing. Sheffield Crown Court heard this week that Burns _was_ being followed by the police - but they were looking for illegal drugs, not UFOs. Drug Squad detectives had been following the DJ as part of a covert operation against dealers. And officers saw Burns speaking to a man in another car and retrieving a bag from a grass verge after a late night rendezvous at a motorway junction. When police swooped on the car driven by a woman friend of Burns as it left the M1 near Tinsley they found almost 1,000 amphetamine tablets hidden inside a carrier bag. Burns denied any knowledge of the drugs, but back seat passenger Suzanne Bradley told the jury she had bought 50 of the tablets - designed to look like the dance drug Ecstacy - from him on the journey back to Sheffield. Bradley told the court she met Burns when he was a disc jockey and described him a "strange" because of his obsession with aliens and UFOs.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Ufologist Convicted And In Jail Tonight From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:49:32 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:00:22 -0400 Subject: Ufologist Convicted And In Jail Tonight The Sheffield Star David Clarke and Roy Emery Former disc jockey Maxwell Burns is today behind bars waiting sentence after a jury convicted him of possessing almost a thousand amphetamine tablets. He collected the drugs from a grass verge close to the M1 motorway in Nottinghamshire and planned to supply them through the pubs and clubs of South Yorkshire. But the 36-year-old was stopped in his tracks by the drug squad who were already targeting his passenger, Suzanne Bradley. As they were driven off the M1 at Tinsley by her pal Louise Goodison, Police swooped and recovered the tablets. They would have been sold off as Ecstacy tablets to South Yorkshire's nightclubbers. Burns, of Ferrars Road, Tinsley, was convicted of possessing the drugs and supplying 50 of them to Bradley. Bradley, aged 35, of Molineux Road, Shiregreen, admitted possessing them with intent to supply and was sentenced to 120 hours community service. Charges of possessing the drugs with intent to supply against 33-year-old Goodison, of Cobnar Road, Woodseats, were dropped. The court was told Bradley bought them from Burns for �150 on the return journey to Sheffield and would have shared them with her boyfriend, Sheffield Crown Court was told. Burns is to be sentenced on Friday, September 24.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:03:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:40:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:44:18 +0100 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:44:31 -0400 >>From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> >>Subject: Berwyn Watch 1 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, >>Andy Wrote: >>>The collapse of Rendlesham as a crashed UFO case has left the >>>post X-Files generation of UK ufologists desparate for a >>>credible 'British Roswell' and to that end various stories and >>>rumours have been rehabilitated, the most prominent of which is >>>the so-called 'Berwyn Mountain UFO Crash'. >Hi All & Andy, >I didn't realize Rendlesham was now considered a "Non UFO Case"? >Who was responsible for the final nail in the coffin then? Only >I know there are possibly a few people on this list who think >Rendlesham was a major UFO case. >BTW; What Post Generation group do you put yourself in? <LoL> I would like to know where it is proposed that the Rendlesham incident involved a crash at all. It is my understanding that it involved an unexplained sighting, which has now generated a variety of responses from researchers. I also have not heard of a "nail in the coffin" that would put this case behind us, but I'm sure there are others who disagree. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: UFO over English Channel? From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:01:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:25:06 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO over English Channel? >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> >Subject: Re: UFO over English Channel? >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:28:58 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:01:18 -0400 >>From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> >>Subject: UFO over English Channel? >>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >Andy Wrote: >>Top quality research from David there no rubbish about 'rolling >>projects', no need to belong to a group of mind controlling >>charlatans - just one person getting some co-operation from a >>few others. Result? Case closed in a few weeks. >Hi All & Andy, >Sorry about my not getting the point here, but I thought David >was looking for Researchers from around the UK to enquire about >this piece of film? That's quite right Roy..and I got lots of enquiries, including from you! >Only David did post the original message on updates informing >everyone about the film? I didn't think for one moment David was >trying to outsmart anyone with this let alone BUFORA? I don't >know perhaps Dave could tell us if this was the case? I wasn't trying to outsmart anyone. I simply wanted to find out what people's opinion was of the footage, and get someone with sufficient expertise to look at it with a view to identifying what was shown. Via Gloria Dixon's good offices, Bill Rose was able to do just that and as far as I'm concerned his opinion stands. As I suspected, there is no UFO, just an artefact of the camcorder and the aircraft's windows. I've informed the family who took the footage, and they are quite satisfied with the explanation. They were merely curious and wanted an explanation, that's why they came to me. If I wanted to sensationalise it I would have done so, sold the pictures to the tabloids, found some dodgy analyst and claimed the images were extraterrestrial spaceships. But I didn't and wouldn't. >I was under the impression that Dave was putting this out purely >for researchers interest in a piece of UFO film taken on board a >plane by a member of a family? And you'd be right. >Sorry to be naive but I didn't realize this film footage was the >basis of a competition, but one of finding out what was on the >tape. You'd be right again. And we have found out what was on the tape - case solved. Kind Regards, Dave
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:50:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:45:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:44:18 +0100 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Hi All & Andy, >I didn't realize Rendlesham was now considered a "Non UFO Case"? >Who was responsible for the final nail in the coffin then? Only >I know there are possibly a few people on this list who think >Rendlesham was a major UFO case. I didn't actually say that Roy. It is a UFO case. However, there is no real evidence as some have claimed that a craft ET or military came down or crashed. >BTW; What Post Generation group do you put yourself in? <LoL> Post Ace of Wands my boy - now there was a TV show! Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: The Challenge From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:19:22 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:56:51 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:57:58 _0400 >To: UFO UpDates _ Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:28:51 _0700 >>To: UFO UpDates _ Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Lynne Bishop <lynnebishop@softhome.net> >>Subject: Re: The Challenge >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>>Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:55:24 EDT >>>Subject: Re: The Challenge >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Hello, Dr. Randle, >>>>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 _0400 >>>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>>>Subject: The Challenge >>John Velez said <snipped for brevity>: >>>>Everyone should take the time to write to Budd Hopkins, David >>>>Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, John Carpenter et al and _ask >>>>them_ to collectively contribute any materials they may be in >>>>possession of that may help to advance what little is known >>>>about UFO abductions. If it turns out that they _don't_ have >>>>anything of value in stock then that fact should also be known. >>KRandle responded: >>>I think you might have found the problem. There is nothing in >>>stock of value. >>Sir, your post is primarily well_written, but this comment >>prejudges data and information that you are not privy to at this >>time. Prejudging the data is incorrect, regardless of one's >>personal spin on the abduction phenomenon. >>KRandle also said: >>>Okay, but be open to the alternative explanations. >>This cuts both ways. >Hi Lynne. >Couldn't have said better or with any more class myself. >Apparently a Ph.D in psychology does not preclude prejudice (or >even the display of condescention) in the holder of the degree. >_Always_ and in _any_ of Kevin's responses to my posts he has >been unable to restrain his expressions of condescension. Makes >me wonder what has him feeling so 'defensive'. He admonishes me >repeatedly to "be open to alternate explanations". The >mantra-like repitition of this phrase by Kevin makes me wonder >if he's really talking to me, or to himself! John, all, If I have sounded condescending, I certainly didn't intend it. I have always expected to have some of my views to be rejected since they are 180 degrees out of phase with those of most others in the UFO community. I believe MJ-12 to be a hoax, I believe there are mundane explanations for cattle mutilations, and I don't find much in the way of physical evidence to support alien abduction. These views, in this, forum are unpopular. >Hey, in the spirit of returning the favor I have a few "catch >phrases" for Kevin. >"All _projections_ are valid!" >"Doctor" heal thyself! >And, . . . waxing Biblical if I may: (Paraphrase) >"Judge not, lest ye be judged!" >"Remove the log from thine own eye, before pointing out >the splinter in anothers eyes. >Kevin, the last thing I want is to get involved in online >pissing contests with you (or anyone else for that matter) I'd >really prefer it if you didn't respond to _any_ of my postings >in future. Honest, I won't miss your input. This last just makes me sad. I had hoped that John, who has displayed his intelligence and passion over the years here, would be one of those who looked at the evidence I presented. I believed that he would think about my counterpoints. Well, it's not the first disappointment. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:50:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:41:29 -0400 Subject: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns I note with great interest the recent posts about Max Burns being found guilty of serious drug supply charges. Many people have been bored to tears over the past two years by the Max Burns saga and the 'war' which has taken place between him and other UFO researchers keen to promote the truth. It has diverted valuable time, money and resources from real UFO research. Yet if Dave Clarke, Tim Matthews, Martin Jeffry and myself had not challenged Burns at every turn ufology and the public would be more duped than they have been. We defend our actions and will happily do it again the next time a charlatan rears his/her head in the subject. No doubt we will learn of his sentence at the appropriate time but for the moment there are some useful points to be considered. Max Burns appeared suddenly on the UFO scene a few years ago, claiming a long standing interest and research in the subject. He stated on many occasions that he was looking for 'fame' and 'money'. His 'big chance' came with the alleged 'Sheffield UFO Crash', promoted as an ET event exclusively by Burns and which has been closely intertwined with his criminal activities ever since. Many things could, and will, be said about Burns' involvement with ufology and I think we have a right to say them now that his case is almost at an end. Here's a few..... * At the 1997 BUFORA Conference Burns stated, in front of several witnesses, that he had bribed a key witness to the Sheffield case with marijuana. * When challenged about this he ranted and raved, saying he had never used drugs in his life and was going to take legal action against me for libel. The facts have turned out somewhat different and Max is guilty of drug dealing. I repeat my statement again - that Max Burns bribed a key witness to the 'Sheffield' case with marijuana. The fact that this witness has disappeared into the woodwork notwithstanding, this incident is an excellent example of just one of Burns' lies and manipulations of truth to fit his own fantasy prone view of the Sheffield 'UFO Crash'. I trust any researcher stupid enough to subscribe to Burns' views on this case will read these words carefully. * The British UFO Research Association (BUFORA) were major supporters of Burns throughout this time. He was in communication with several council members and active members of BUFORA (Steve Gamble, Judith Jafaar, Malcolm Robinson, Richard Conway and many others according to emails Burns sent to me) eventually persuading them he had a right to spout his lies on a BUFORA lecture platform. BUFORA Council members were made fully aware of the nature of Burns' evidence and of his involvement with drug dealing and yet, incredibly, gave him a platform to speak - taking his word over that of their Press Officer, Journal Editor and many other key personnel and investigators. BUFORA were also fully aware that many of the 'facts' Burns' used in his presentation were imagined, untrue or unverifiable. This did not deter them and, in some bastardised version of promoting 'free speech' they allowed Burns to manipulate their organisation and membership. BUFORA's Council's grip on ufology in the UK, reality in general, and their understanding of ethical practice within the subject must be called into question over their sponsorship of both Burns and his interpretation of the Sheffield case. The facts appear to be that BUFORA will sink to any level to produce 'infotainment' with which it can fool its' membership. And that once again the elite ruling body on Council will have its' way despite any representation from other officers or its membership. Democracy? I think not. Perhaps BUFORA should make a public statement as to whether they now supported a convicted drug dealer and his lies about the Sheffield case? Of course the deluded and the nutcases in ufology will not take heed of the Max Burns affair. Some will believe he is innocent and has been set up by 'UK intelligence', as he puts it. I only wish this were the case - he might have been stopped sooner. Others will continue to believe there is an extraterestrial element to the Sheffield case. All permutations of stupid believes will abound but the plain and simple facts are that ufology in the UK was taken is - yet again - by a huckster. And that - yet again - BUFORA gave its support to something it knew nothing of but thought it could make ufological capital and money from. If ufology in the UK ever wishes to be taken seriously by the establishment it needs to learn the lessons of the Burns farrago. I very much doubt it will as long as its leaders are more interested in profit and promotion over hard fact. I leave you with two thoughts: * A careful reading of Burns' court case makes it plain that not only was he a drug dealer but that he was intent on passing ordinary amphetaine off as Ecstasy. Therefore he cannot even claim any ideological reason for his drug dealing - this was ripping people off purely for financial gain. * Burns, on many occasions accused myself and Dave Clarke of working for the government and being part of a plot to infiltrate and set-up ufologists in the UK. Isn't it therefore extremely strange, to say the least, that Max Burns' trail and sentencing comes in the same week as Dave Clarke leaves his post at the Sheffield Star and moves on to other things. As he said to me the other day 'my work here is done'. Quite! I hate to say we told you so..... Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:53:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:08:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:31:54 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos <snip> >I tend to believe that Ed Walters had real experiences and that >his photos, although extremely controversial, were not faked. >I don't know if this is directly pertinent but when I was in GB >in 1992 and witnessed the red light UFO along with Bob Oechsler, >Steven Greer and about 100 others, Ann Morrison told me that she >and her husband had lots of videotapes of the GB UFO. I don't >recall if they included the Ed Walters variety. I also don't >recall the names, but it seems to me that someone else also >witnessed the Ed Walters type UFO, from years ago. >The biggest problem I see with videotape and photographic >evidence is that it will always be challenged as to it's >authenticity and analysis methodology. That's why it's my >opinion that UFO photographs make poor evidence. I personally >would put more credence in the testimony of multiple witnesss >corroboration of a sighting than a crystal clear photograph, >which will always be under suspicion, even if proven with a >gazillion dollars worth of high-tech photo analysis to be >completely legitimate. >I think it's unfair, but you will probably have to put up with >this kind of demeaning crap from your mealy-mouth detractors >mainly because you have been so high profile on the Walters >photo analysis. >Of course, Jerry Black, Hyzer, et al., can always put up or shut >up. >Whoops! I guess that makes *me* one of the " UFO good ole boys" >club for shooting my mouth off. I'm just tired of reading the >same damned re-hash over and over and over. Don, I fully agree with what you wrote. I also don't "believe" that Ed faked those photos. Many other folks have also seen the Gulf Breeze UFOs, in one shape or another. It is so easy to attack one witness, instead of confronting a large group of people. I think these guys who like to re-hash good cases, trying to find ridiculous explanations for them, are chicken. We, as researchers, must remember to remind the public that UFO witnesses and/or "believers" far outnumber the "non-witnesses/believers" by 1� to 1. And the numbers keep growing each time someone (who was previously skeptical) reports their first sighting. These debunkers don't stand a chance against that. Michel M. Deschamps MUFON provincial Section Director for Sudbury, Ontario, Canada, UFO Researcher/Historian & UFO eyewitness to 14 separate sightings (1974 - 1998).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 UFO Desk Site Fixup From: Paul C. WIlliams <paulw@escape.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:38:33 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:56:00 -0400 Subject: UFO Desk Site Fixup All, Please drop by and check out the new improved easy to read UFO Desk website. Now boasting not only the strangest stories on the net but now available in streaming audio. I've been working on the site, and it is now easy to read, and navigate. So please drop by, check out the new addition a Gallery of some of the most unusual photos. You won;t find the usual ufo pixs here. Also lots of kewl commercial banners to check out. And perhaps find that ufo gift you've been looking for. If you have a story, event, or are a reseacher and want your work exposed please drop me a line and we'll talk. UFO Desk is heard over WBAI NY radio alternate Monday mornings at one am, and is webcast during that time. To connect to webcast please drop by my site and click on webcast. BTW, you can listen to WBAI anytime by hitting that link. I do the encoding and the stream is almost always up. WBAI is simply the best radio station in the US. If you don't believe me just check us out anytime! WBAI is left of center, non-commecial radio. I'm very interested in your feelings about the new look of UFO Desk, so please send me your thoughts and criticisms. They are much welcome and sought after. Thanks mucho in advance. Paul Williams Executive Producer UFO Desk http://www.anomalies.net/~ufodesk Kewl ufo posters, books, and sci-fi videos at my store. http://shop.affinia.com/paulw/store
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@ukgateway.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:39:58 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:59:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:40:25 +0100 >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@ukgateway.net> >Subject: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting <snip> >I am researching a particular Large Craft UFO sighting that >occured over Christchurch in 1979-80. >This event was big news at the time with 100's of witnesses and >much media coverage for a few days before it was explained away >as the reflection of a fishing fleet etc. >Given the number of witnesses I feel there will be quite a few >people who will be willing to come forward with their >experiences and in particular the date of this Sat evening >event. I have just had the following message from Brian: From: Brian Grindrod <grindrod@omen.com.au> To: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Subject: Re: UFO sighting research Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:42:33 +0800 John, I'm narrowing down the dates of this UFO sighting to 1977-78, not 1979-80 as originally posted. Could you do me a big favour and correct the dates on my original email you've since posted on the UFO UpDates. I'm starting to get responses but the incorrect dates are throwing some off the trail. The key for me is the actual day of the event as this allows me to search the library for the news clippings of the time. Thanks Brian Grindrod ============= Thanks in advance, John Hayes ufoinfo@ukgateway.net webmaster@ufoinfo.com UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com Archives for UFO Roundup/Filer's Files/UK UFO Network Bulletin/ AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: The Challenge From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:09:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:09:58 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:57:58 _0400 >To: UFO UpDates _ Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >Kevin, the last thing I want is to get involved in online >pissing contests with you (or anyone else for that matter) I'd >really prefer it if you didn't respond to _any_ of my postings >in future. Honest, I won't miss your input. >Sincerely, >John Velez List, and specifically to any new folks who have yet to figure out how this game gets played, I agree completely that such a pissing contest will do no one any good, but I must say that I have a real problem with the way John blew Kevin off here. In the past John and I have had problems communicating on a mature level, thus I have for the most part ignored his postings other than the odd brief skimming of them now and again. He has in the past often made statements about how he has been 'ignored' and 'talked around in circles,' and how no one will look at the evidence objectively, but I let them go except for a few extreme occasions, figuring that anyone who wished could search the archives and find out who was really the one acting irrational and posturing. But now, John pushes publicly once again for impartiality, objectivity, and openness from all sides. John Velez suggests that evidence be presented and made public (and btw, I agree with that and most of the other things he said in this thread), but I did not read any of what Kevin said in that post in the way John apparently did, and I don't think John has the right to choose who we should be allowed to listen to when John decides to make such a challenge or statement. John doesn't have to like kevin and doesn't have to ask for or listen to his input, and normally I would agree that they should basically just ignore each other, but is John right in making such a challenge to 'all,' making statements and requests regarding evidence (not merely offering his opinion about things, which I have and would contently ignore) and starting such a discussion, then deciding who he wants to listen to? Telling everyone else to feck off (quite rudely/crudely, as usual)? Is Kevin Randle not as possibly a viable source for abduction information as anyone John agrees with? John will soon enough proceed to spout poetically about how no one will listen, how the evidence is ignored (but once again a search of the archives reveals the truth of the matter as it relates to evidence offered forth for examination by John and his odd selectivity about rejecting offers from people he doesn't agree with, only to continue claiming that he never got any offers in the first place), how everyone is against him, etc etc., but (because it seems completely relevant here) I ask, who is _actually_ more concerned with general petty insults, is unreasonable, condescending, lacking control over his own personal beliefs and emotions, and is defensive? Again, if John were not making a direct and open challenge, I would have no need or desire to bring up my opinions of him as a person, and I am trying to focus on the specifics of what he is getting at here and not just 'how I feel about him,' but he has once again made an open statement regarding the evidence of UFO abductions, and he wishes for that evidence to be examined by people who are impartial and objective, however, and this the main point, _he seems quite ready to make the call on who is impartial and objective, and who is condescending and a zealous debunker and should therefore be ignored by everyone or even told to shut up_. Apparently anyone who doesn't agree with him, regardless of how reasonably they state it, has no right to challenge anything he says in a public forum. And John can continue to go on about how no skeptic listens or dares look at the remarkable evidence- just don't dare try to or he'll put you in a headlock like that ugly kid used to in 3rd grade! Just as John said to Kevin, I have not missed John's input. If someone wants to speak rationally to me about any subject and objectively and rationally debate any of my views or the state of the evidence, I am willing to do so. But I will not play around and sling mud and play games. On the other hand, I will only stand by so long and watch as false statements about how 'no one will listen' and 'the evidence is being ignored by the skeptics' are tossed out in a misleading manner and then those same skeptics (or anyone else) is told to 'stay out of the discussion'. Anyone interested in what Kevin really said can look at the archives and decide for themselves if Kevin was in any way out of bounds, or if rather, he just brought up/elaborated on some possibilities that John Velez did not want to listen to, and therefore Kevin should have 'kept his mouth shut' regarding this 'challenge' (which I oddly recall being directed to "all") as John would seemingly like us to believe. Once again, I will step back and ignore johns postings, opinions, posturing, and, once in a great great while, genuinely thoughtful posts (that being the unfortunate part). But dear list, keep these in mind as well: "If you can't take the heat.... (and no that doesn't end with "try to bully everyone else out of the kitchen") "its easy to be right when you wont listen to anyone who thinks you may be wrong" "Defense mechanisms are a wonderful thing" ".... we need the wood" "ouch! I'll be damned, it really DOES cut both ways" "onelist.com offers free moderated email lists where you can pontificate all you like with no worries about disagreement for FREE! but good luck getting anyone who's not a sheep to sign up" And Kevin and the many others who often bring up unpopular possibilities regarding the subject from a variety of angles, please continue to bring in relevant discussion and criticisms when someone publicly cries out for objectivity and scientific outlook, otherwise such posturing about how the subject/evidence is being ignored by objective minds may actually become true. Tim boycotter of the 'Veterans of Popular Wars Museum'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:16:28 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:34:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:39:20 -0700 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:40:25 +0100 >>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@ukgateway.net> >>Subject: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >>From: Brian Grindrod <grindrod@omen.com.au> >>To: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> >>Subject: UFO sighting research >>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:50:39 +0800 <snip> >Dear John and Grindrod: >I have only one sighting listed here on the *U* Database that >might be relevant. >This listing is for 27 OCT 1979 at Motunau Beach, Northeast of >Christchurch on South Island. The time is not given here, but I >entered 0630 hours (i.e. morning?) >Some odd night-lights were seen, and photos were taken of these. >According to some observers, they appeared to be attached to >some roundish object, like two decks of windows or lights on the >periphery. There are drawings or sketches in my original source, >not now at hand, which is: >Lumieres dans la Nuit (LDLN) issue #198. I would have to dig out >that issue to provide more info. >If this is not the proper sighting, it is quite possible that I >never listed it due to the apparent explanation as the lights >from shrimping boats (as I vaguely recall). I believe that the sightings in question which were "explained" as a squid boat fishing fleet took place Dec. 21, 1978 and thereafter and were investigated in detail by Dr. Bruce Maccabee who went down under and talked to all the aircraft and radar witnesses and published in Applied Optics 18 (1979); 2527-28 and the Journal of Scientific Exploration 1.2 (1987) 149-190. Jerome Clark's excellent The UFO Book has a good summary with references (there are books) on pp415-418. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:53:22 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:26:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Please keep me posted about the New York sighting Mike. I may be >able to corroborate the other report with the video and film >that I shot. Show them a copy of the pix I posted and ask them >if there is any similarity to what they saw. Include me in the >info loop. The 'things' that I record are usually directly over >my house. I have more than a casual/passing interest in getting >them identified. :) >Regards, >John Velez >PS - Re: White spheres >I don't like using the term 'UFO' anymore. Mostly because of the >many assumptions that get made automatically. >Way too many folks nowadays read, "unidentified flying object" >as, "alien flying saucer from outer space." Until it is _known_ >'what' these 'things' are I find it easier/better to use a >simple description of the object rather than the 'loaded' term >UFO. If it's ok I'll just call it what it looked like; a white >sphere. I wanted to elaborate a little because I'm not out to >"coin" any new phrases or 'buzzwords'. We've got enough of those >thank you. Why, if I hear someone call an anomalous aerial >object a "Light Ship" one more time - I'll toss my cookies. >Turn down the 'noise level' says I. ;) >I'm working at keeping anything that comes from me as simple and >straightforward as I can manage. Grin...I know what you mean John. Hahahaha... I will keep you informed. In fact I was talking to the lady last night and she says she lives close to you. You may well get a chance to view her film directly. REgards, Mike Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ ICQ#:7508455 BBS: (270) 683-3026 Fax: (270) 686-7394 Home: (270) 683-6811 ---
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Ufologist Convicted And In Jail Tonight From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:34:36 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:29:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Ufologist Convicted And In Jail Tonight >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: <Updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Ufologist Convicted And In Jail Tonight >Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:49:32 +0100 >The Sheffield Star >David Clarke and Roy Emery >Former disc jockey Maxwell Burns is today behind bars waiting >sentence after a jury convicted him of possessing almost a >thousand amphetamine tablets. Good riddance Max. Now BUFORA has massive egg on their idiotic face. It will be real interesting to see how their board weasels out of this new development, if at all. They were warned of Max's drug problems and still went along to give him "freedom of speech". You stood by your convictions Tim, and you were right all along, even at the personal cost to you and others of slurs and malicious crap thrown at you by Max. I suspect the jury will grant Max what he richly deserves - a lot of free time behind bars to deliberate over the damage he has caused others. I hope that Ufology is _finally_ rid of Max Burns, once and for all. Don http://www.fwpd.net/dona/tesla/teslacoil.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:40:12 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:39:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns >Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:50:30 -0400 >From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> >Subject: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> The title of which is a sad commentary, at least to me, on those of who take such pleasure in the misery and mistakes of others, especially when those others come counter to "us," whomever "us" are. Personally, I don't like to hear or read about whether or not Max burns or Jaime Gesundt fries. Having heard the news ONCE that the man was arrested is sufficient. But frankly, it seems to me that people appear too felicitous over this person's misfortune, even if self inflicted, even if legitimate. That's the sad part. To me, at least. "Look what happened to that nasty beastly Burns, you know, the one who disagreed with US!? Isn't it wonderful? Now that he has been convicted as a pusher of drugs, we are vindicated!" So how come you don't talk about me? I am usually inebriated from testing my freshly made wine! I was arested on Canal Street by the police for collecting sperm samples from sewer rats for my aging vats! Maybe it's because I am so wealthy? The wine biz has been really great this year, thanks to Updates and all that fuss on the other side of the pond... and poverty, and drought, and starvation... makes people wanna make babies and drink a lot. Oh well. I suppose I should be happy that at least some of you are happy. Enjoy yourelves. Maybe Fill Class will get arrested pimping on 42nd Street. Wow. That'll make you guys look even better. Won't do a thing for your opinions about God, the Universe and Everything though. But ya can't have everything, can yous? Gesundt - We're not happy when you are.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Max Burns - Background From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 02:40:35 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:21:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Max Burns - Background >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Max Burns - Background >Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:37:56 +0100 >The 'Sheffield Star' newspaper >by >David Clarke and Roy Emery >Burns denied any knowledge of the drugs, but back seat passenger >Suzanne Bradley told the jury she had bought 50 of the tablets - >designed to look like the dance drug Ecstacy - from him on the >journey back to Sheffield. Bradley told the court she met Burns >when he was a disc jockey and described him a "strange" because >of his obsession with aliens and UFOs. Hello British list members, Sad story about this Max character. Now please enlighten us about what happened to Suzanne Bradley. Since she was an accomplice, did she go to jail as well? Does anyone know what happened to her?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:46:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:43:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:31:18 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 <snip> >I also got 5 photographs that were taken with a telephoto lens >of fixed focal length. (500mm at f/11 using 400 ASA 35mm >color Kodak film. The camera body was an old Pentax 35mm >SLR) >When I shot the photos the object had moved away from its >stationary position, (directly overhead) and I also got several >nearby TV antenna tines into the pix.> >The antenna in question was no more than 45 to 50 feet away from >me. Knowing that distance, and the focal length of the lens >used, figuring out 'size' should be do-able. I will post copies >of any shots that came out on the list. I will be happy to send >you the undeveloped roll if you like. I have been very ill and I >haven't gone out to get the film processed yet. I'll wait until >I hear from you before I do. Zap me a line and let me know what >to do. May as well get it developed as soon as possible. If you have any film left on the roll shoot a picture of an object of known size at known distance, say a 3 ft ruler at 30 ft using the same camera and lens. This will calibrate the anglular size of objects. Can't calculate actual size unless actual distance is known. But, with the information on known size at known distance can provide a range of possible sizes for a range of possible distances.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: The Challenge From: John <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 02:00:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:02:33 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:19:22 EDT >Subject: Re: The Challenge >To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:57:58 _0400 >>To: UFO UpDates _ Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: The Challenge >>>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:28:51 _0700 >>>To: UFO UpDates _ Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Lynne Bishop <lynnebishop@softhome.net> >>>Subject: Re: The Challenge >>>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>>>Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:55:24 EDT >>>>Subject: Re: The Challenge >>>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Hello, Dr. Randle, >>>>>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:25:47 _0400 >>>>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>>>>Subject: The Challenge > >>>John Velez said: <snip> >>>>>Everyone should take the time to write to Budd Hopkins, David >>>>>Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, John Carpenter et al and _ask >>>>>them_ to collectively contribute any materials they may be in >>>>>possession of that may help to advance what little is known >>>>>about UFO abductions. If it turns out that they _don't_ have >>>>>anything of value in stock then that fact should also be known. >>>KRandle responded: >>>>I think you might have found the problem. There is nothing in >>>>stock of value. >This last just makes me sad. I had hoped that John, who has >displayed his intelligence and passion over the years here, >would be one of those who looked at the evidence I presented. I >believed that he would think about my counterpoints. Well, it's >not the first disappointment. >KRandle Kevin, It's not the counterpoints, I am open to yours and anyone else's, it's the condescension. Maybe you aren't even aware that you're doing it. Excuse me, but it's tough to listen to another man's thoughts and opinions when all you get to see is his nose hairs as he sights down his proboscis at you. Kevin, I don't agree with a lot of your takes and theories on abduction. I went to bat for you anyway (argued why it was important to include you) when we were planning the conference speaker assignments. I have always expressed my respect for your work in 'ufology.' (Both privately and on this list.) Yet you insist on relating to me as if I was so closed minded about abduction that I need to be reminded to try to be "open to opposing points of view" etc. It never sits well with me when I read that stuff because I think I have demonstrated that I am not as encapsulated in my own belief systems as your 'advice' to me always seems to suggest. There is only so much of that that I'm willing to excuse or look the other way on. After awhile it all starts to get a bit stale. Know what I mean. I'm disappointed too. Kevin. Must have been a case of mistaken identity on both our parts. You ain't who I thought you were either. Peace, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Tampa UFO Sighting Update From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:51:39 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:04:15 -0400 Subject: Tampa UFO Sighting Update A Huge, Gun-Metal-Gray Triangular Craft! The video tape of the FOX-13 Tampa September 7th news report arrived today. Seeing it again confirmed my original impression when I first saw the news broadcast that evening. It is definitely NOT a disintegrating rocket booster or a meteor!! The video clearly shows a closeup of a gun-metal-gray "V," triangular or wedge-shaped craft. It is perhaps the best video ever taken of this type of sighting. It is not a bright light or a flash accross the sky. It's an unbelievable tape of a huge craft that is slow moving and stealthy. It looks like a surveillance type of UFO or Black Project plane. The report does not say who took the video, but it is very impressive! I am amazed how such a sighting could be mistaken for anything else. It is truly frightening how this type of craft can flaunt itself in our skies and be explained away and dismissed so easily. I will try to post a good photo of the craft within the next couple of days. Meanwhile I did get the audio portion transferred to real-audio (289K). Listen carefully! UFOSEEK.org 9.22.99 http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/ -----------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 36th National UFO Conference From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:54:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:18:25 -0400 Subject: 36th National UFO Conference [Last call. if any listers make it, say ello and I'll buy ya a drink, or possibly we can just send the bill to Joe Firmage's room - Tim] The Anomalist Hosts the 36th National UFO Conference The world's oldest UFO conference will be hosted in San Antonio, Texas, this year by The Anomalist. Dates are Saturday and Sunday, September 25 & 26, 1999. Location is the Seven Oaks Hotel & Conference Center, 1400 Austin Highway, San Antonio. Speakers and subjects are as follows: Walt Andrus: The Disappearance of Frederich Valentich in Australia Jim Moseley (Conference Chairman, MC, editor and publisher of "Saucer Smear"): Weird Personal Experiences of a Skeptical Believer Patrick Huyghe (Co-editor of The Anomalist): The Alien Horde: A Field Guide Approach to the Unknown Karl Pflock: Behind the Flying Saucers: A New Twist on Aztec Constance Clear ("Reaching for Reality"): Abductees: Human Ambassadors or Lab Rats? Tom Deuley: MJ-12 & the El Indio-Guerrero Crash Linda Corley: An Intimate Conversation with Major Jesse A. Marcel (Marcel's last interview.) Joe Firmage: The Truth and the International Space Sciences Organization Kevin Randle: The Abduction Enigma: A Scientific Analysis Whitely Strieber: Why Do We Deny It? (Including new video.) Special Guest: East Coast literary agent Cherry Weiner. Make an appointment! $45 advance, $60 door. Rooms $45, suites $75. For room reservations, call 1-800 346-5866 and be sure to ask for the above Conference rates. Advance registrations should be made payable to Dennis Stacy and sent to PO Box 12434, San Antonio, TX 78212. E-mail dstacy@texas.net for a Conference flyer and speaker schedule. Include your snail mail address or send a long SASE to the above address. Hope to see you there!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 99 10:46:07 PDT Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:32:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:17:30 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT >>Jerome Clark can continue to say that he has all the respect in >>the world for your intelligence, your knowledge and your >>ability. But if he's talking about this in relation to ufology, >>he does not know what he is talking about. This is why I am >>going to add Jerome Clark's name to the list of "The Old Boy's >>Club." This is a clique where nothing derogatory is said about >>another member, no matter how badly their cases are investigated >>or what ridiculous statements they make. They simply do not >>speak ill of one another, and these are: Stanton Friedman, Budd >>Hopkins, Bruce Maccabee, Walt Andrus, and now Jerome Clark. >Its a matter of survival. In the Press Corps, if you come out >and say something the President does not like, it could be >totally true, but not liked, then you are out on your ear. No >more White House assignments... thats the kiss of death. The >same holds true for the Good Ole Boys in the UFO community. Its >very important to not say anything bad (but true) about anyone >else in the club because it might put you on the outside and >that might mean not getting some morsel of "valuable" info... >"left out of the loop" so to speak. What a load of malicious crap. I have no idea who Terry Evans is, but that doesn't stop the mindless reputation - trashing, obviously. Evidence, logic, reason, or a sense of proportion never stops this sort of thing, sad to say. Evans doesn't explain to us exactly what horrendous consequences will ensue if I "say something (Bruce Maccabee) doesn't like." I can tell him: none whatever. Unlike Evans and unlike Jerry Black, Bruce -- with whom I have disagreed on occasion, though generally he and I have the same outlook on the UFO phenomenon -- is a gentleman. He understands that honorable human beings, including honorable ufologists, will disagree from time to time. To all appearances, however, Evans and Black assume that disagreement with them is all the evidence they need of the dissenter's venality. No wonder ufological discourse has become so warped. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:55:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:53:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:43:56 -0400 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:17:30 -0500 >>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT >>>Bruce Maccabee, you continue to be an embarrassment to the >>>field of ufology. You very well know that William G.Hyzer has >>>proven that Photograph #19 was a double exposure. Yours and >>>MUFON's contentions that there was a dent in the hood, that the >>>top of the hood was muddy, that there were bricks in the back >>>of the truck, luminosity coming down the road� all these >>>contentions are just that: contentions. >>I am not sure if I agree with Mr. Black that Dr. Maccabee (what >>is your degree in?) is an embarrassment. But I think he hurt >>his credibility with the Gulf Breeze case...for starters. >> >>I think it is suspicious that over time the Anti-Walters camp >>found a loop-hole in his story. >>Dr. Maccabee came up with another "why it is" story. i.e "Its >>that bricks... no, its the dent, no its the mud...." A good >>investigator would have already been aware of this and figured >>it into the investigation at the time, not upon criticism.> >I have a Ph.D. in physics. Physics is a broad category. What in your background, (briefly) educationally or professionally qualifies you to analyze the Walters photos? I understand the Hyzers are photogrammetrists. How does your education and experience compare to theirs? (That is they do photo analysis as a sole profession.) >The bent hood and blocks in the back end of th truck.and the >lack of a reflection in th hood were all thoroughly researched >in the summer of 1988, two years before Mr. Black came onto the >scene with Hyzer. Can you tell me where and when this information was first published, I would like to read more about it. As an observation. You say that the bricks etc., make the hood rise, however in looking at photo 19 in the book, it looks like the camera angle is downward and the hood is horizontal. I also know in carrying large loads in my truck, that regardless where I place the weight, the whole vehicle tends to lower proportionately. I have never had an instance where the front end was riding appreciably higher than the back. Since Mr. Walters was/is in construction it would seem the he would know how to load a truck with the weight over the axles. >My work and the independent work of Mr. Sainio (who didn't write >any book chapter and was not paid one cent by anyone) has shown >the Hyzer's analysis was incomplete and at least in one case >just plain wrong (Hyzer's explanation of photo 1). >>>William G. Hyzer, with all of his sophisticated equipment, has >>>proven that there was no luminosity coming down the road, >>>contradicting Jeff Sainio's contention with 12-years of >>>experience in the field of photographic analysis. >Note here that Black refer's to Sainio's detection of luminance >along the road. Sainio worked with the original negative, Hyzer >with a copy. Sainio's analysis was completely independent of >mine. He has shot down a number of UFO photos an videos (as have >I), but he was not able to punch holes in Ed's photos. Why did Mr. Sanio have the original negatives and Mr. Hyzer only a copy? Seems like you stacked the deck against anything that Hyzer would find that was contrary to your findings. You simply say, he didn't have the original. Subsequently his analysis is flawed. Easy out. If you wanted a level playing field, you would have insisted that Hyzer have exactly what you and Mr. Sanio had to work with. BTW: Why didn't you all just work together? Even if you disagreed, the debate would have been terrific, as colleagues not adversaries. >Sainio told me he was particularly impressed with the fact that >Ed, the notorious hoaxer he was supposed to be, would allow the >originals ou of his (Ed's) control where all sorts of tests >could be done to test for fakery. With all due respect to Mr. >Hyzer and experience, the fact is that photo analysis experience >is not all it takes in UFO investigation. Who made the first generation negs? <snip > >>>As far as I'm concerned, anyone who accepts $20,000.00 in an >>>ongoing investigation should disqualify himself from further >>>involvement with the case. Realizing, of course, that Walt >>>Andrus would never have the professionalism to dismiss you, you >>>should have been disqualified from any further investigation of >>>this case upon acceptance of this sum of money. Also, your good >>>>$5,000.00 early-on in the investigation for some work he did on >>>the Ed Walters' photographs, which obviously had nothing to do >>with evaluating the Gulf Breeze case. >>Mr. Black is correct. Taking the money puts DBM motives in >>question. It doesn't matter when he took the money, the deal >>could have been cut long before the case was completed. The >>honorable thing to do would been to refuse any payment.> >There was no book "deal" until months after my presentation at the >MUFON symposium in July, 1988. Anyone who wants the status of the >investigation >long before there was a book contract should read >"A History of the Gulf Breeze Sightings" available from the >Fund for UFO Research. >>As for Mr. Oeschler, didn't he take that money allegedly for >>having some photos reprinted? Seems to me that it would not >>have cost $5,000 to do what he did. >More of the disinformation or lack of information spread by Mr. >Black and others. This has been explained numerous times in the >past 9 years. Oechsler hired another photo expert and together >they carefully cleaned the original Polaroid photos of Ed, then >they proveeded to make literally hundreds of prints and slides >from the originals, taking care to eliminate glare and obtain >perfect focus. It took weeks and the materials and lab time cost >$$$. It seems to me that by eliminating glare and obtaining perfect focus any data that those imperfections might have held is gone. Can't that be considered as tampering with evidence? I can understand getting specks off the pictures and negs but not changing anything. <snip> >>>Jerome Clark can continue to say that he has all the respect in >>>the world for your intelligence, your knowledge and your >>>ability. But if he's talking about this in relation to ufology, >>>he does not know what he is talking about. This is why I am >>>going to add Jerome Clark's name to the list of "The Old Boy's >>>Club." This is a clique where nothing derogatory is said about >>>another member, no matter how badly their cases are investigated >>>or what ridiculous statements they make. They simply do not >>>speak ill of one another, and these are: Stanton Friedman, Budd >>>Hopkins, Bruce Maccabee, Walt Andrus, and now Jerome Clark. >>Its a matter of survival. In the Press Corps, if you come out >>and say something the President does not like, it could be >>totally true, but not liked, then you are out on your ear. No >>more White House assignments... thats the kiss of death. The >>same holds true for the Good Ole Boys in the UFO community. Its >>very important to not say anything bad (but true) about anyone >>else in the club because it might put you on the outside and >>that might mean not getting some morsel of "valuable" info... >>"left out of the loop" so to speak. > >This a crock. People in the ufo community criticize each other >all the time. Unfortunately it is hard to find anything abou Mr. >Black to criticize because, so far as I know, he has only >commented on Gulf Breeze and the Travis Walton case (where he >used "lie detection" to prove it actually happened..... although >there are ufologists who don't accept lie detection as a valid >means of determining truth.) Id like to believe you here... but I don't. The people in the inner circle do not criticize each other. You will go after (criticze) the next circle out, but you will never go after each other. <snip> >There were very credible "other people": who said thy saw the >same thing. Dr. Fenner McConnell and wife, Ray Pollack and two >others, etc. I know this sticks in Jerry's craw, but the fact >is that Ed was not alone in reporting the strange UFO. He was >the only one who took numerous pictures, however. That alone makes him suspect. And if as everyone says, the sightings are still going on in Gulf Breeze... hey, where's the pictures? Mr. Walters and you want us all to believe that "they" only had eyes for Ed. Take my picture Mr. Walters... I'm ready for my close-up. ><snip> >>Interestingly, in all the pictures that Ed Walters took at his >>home, not one neighbor ever reported seeing any objects that Ed >>Walters photographed. Not one. There again, that does not mean >>that Ed Walters photographs are not real, but it is interesting >>to note that not one neighbor saw any object that Ed Walters >>photographed. >Wrong. the people across the street had a sighting in early >April. There you go. Throwing in unsubstantiated claim. Which neighbors? And where is the written, dated report? >>Mr. Black makes some important points and he should not be >>dismissed. >>Terry Evans >Why is it that people repeat Jerry's critical comments without >quoting my rebuttal? I have responded to Jerry's invective >numerous times over the last five or six years. >Perhaps you missed my message which I posted to UpDates on Sept >13? There is a more complete response in that message which you can >find in the archive at ufomind.com >[see: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/sep/m14-001.shtml] Yes, I did, but I'll be sure to read it. Terry Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:57:54 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:38:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:44:18 +0100 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:44:31 -0400 >>From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> >>Subject: Berwyn Watch 1 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, >>Andy Wrote: >>>The collapse of Rendlesham as a crashed UFO case has left the >>>post X-Files generation of UK ufologists desparate for a >>>credible 'British Roswell' and to that end various stories and >>>rumours have been rehabilitated, the most prominent of which is >>>the so-called 'Berwyn Mountain UFO Crash'. >Hi All & Andy, >I didn't realize Rendlesham was now considered a "Non UFO Case"? >Who was responsible for the final nail in the coffin then? Only >I know there are possibly a few people on this list who think >Rendlesham was a major UFO case. >BTW; What Post Generation group do you put yourself in? <LoL> >Regards, >Roy.. Hi, I suspect Andy is commenting from two perspectives. His personal judgement of the conflicting evidence and having had the opportunity - which the rest of you will also have soon - of being able to read my (half a book long) reappraisal of the case. This was recently written to take account of all the evidence that has appeared in the past two years (pretty well rendering my l998 book already out of date). So I took the chance to give this case a thorough going over. But I'll let him tell you if that is the case for his comments. What I will say is that I have followed the Rendlesham story from the start (long before it was publicly revealed) and its twists and turns have driven me crazy. In my most recent (already remaindered after all of 15 months!) book on the case I noted that it has been an obsession . I have struggled long and hard to eke out the truth and we have been getting there, but by bit. Unfortunately, much of the getting there has diminished rather than enhanced the importance of the case. As I explained in my recent IUR article, the evidence has taken some hefty knocks of late and gradually we have chipped away at parts of it. Today I personally consider a lot of it to be resolved or resolvable, but at its heart there remains an incident where something appears to have provoked an intriguing close encounter. However, even here, questions about what that something was are more open and disturbing than they once were even in the recent past. I do not think it is at all improper to say the case has lost much of its mystique as a result of this process - even if it has not eroded completely. I don't regard it as totally solved. But its status as one of the top cases is now arguable; although not, in my opinion, demolished. But Andy was referring to Rendlesham as a UFO crash - not as a case, per se. It never was a UFO Crash, as such, of course, despite the title of my last book imposed by the publisher (not me). The stories in the first book (Sky Crash) to that effect - i.e. the tales about a recovered disc being shepherded by the USAF whilst the aliens made repairs - are what I would probably now term imaginative. I would not base any conclusions about the case around them - as the deeper I have probed into the case the more the evidence has led away from a crash scenario. I think that is indisputable. Best wishes, Jenny Randles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:24:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:12:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:53:36 -0400 >>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:31:54 -0600 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos ><snip> >>I tend to believe that Ed Walters had real experiences and that >>his photos, although extremely controversial, were not faked. >>I don't know if this is directly pertinent but when I was in GB >>in 1992 and witnessed the red light UFO along with Bob Oechsler, >>Steven Greer and about 100 others, Ann Morrison told me that she >>and her husband had lots of videotapes of the GB UFO. I don't >>recall if they included the Ed Walters variety. I also don't >>recall the names, but it seems to me that someone else also >>witnessed the Ed Walters type UFO, from years ago. > >>The biggest problem I see with videotape and photographic >>evidence is that it will always be challenged as to it's >>authenticity and analysis methodology. That's why it's my >>opinion that UFO photographs make poor evidence. I personally >>would put more credence in the testimony of multiple witnesss >>corroboration of a sighting than a crystal clear photograph, >>which will always be under suspicion, even if proven with a >>gazillion dollars worth of high-tech photo analysis to be >>completely legitimate. > >>I think it's unfair, but you will probably have to put up with >>this kind of demeaning crap from your mealy-mouth detractors >>mainly because you have been so high profile on the Walters >>photo analysis. >>Of course, Jerry Black, Hyzer, et al., can always put up or shut >>up. >>Whoops! I guess that makes *me* one of the " UFO good ole boys" >>club for shooting my mouth off. I'm just tired of reading the >>same damned re-hash over and over and over. >Don, >I fully agree with what you wrote. I also don't "believe" that >Ed faked those photos. Many other folks have also seen the Gulf >Breeze UFOs, in one shape or another. It is so easy to attack >one witness, instead of confronting a large group of people. I >think these guys who like to re-hash good cases, trying to find >ridiculous explanations for them, are chicken. We, as >researchers, must remember to remind the public that UFO >witnesses and/or "believers" far outnumber the >"non-witnesses/believers" by 1� to 1. And the numbers keep >growing each time someone (who was previously skeptical) reports >their first sighting. These debunkers don't stand a chance >against that. First, unless someone has taken a photo identical, I said identical, to Mr. Walters, then there is no corroboration for Mr. Walters. Lights in the sky and blurring lines are not identical. Second, your comparisons are irrelevant. Unless each and every report is thoroughly investigated (that means checking local airports, etc etc.) everything is anecdotal. And why is everyone who wants to find facts in a case a debunker? By calling skeptics debunkers you show your ignorance. You call yourself an investigator, but if you take anecdotal comments as reports you are simply muddying the waters. Terry Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:14:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:58:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:31:54 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:43:56 -0400 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>>Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT >Hi Bruce, >>>>William G. Hyzer, with all of his sophisticated equipment, has >>>>proven that there was no luminosity coming down the road, >>>>contradicting Jeff Sainio's contention with 12-years of >>>>experience in the field of photographic analysis. >>Note here that Black refer's to Sainio's detection of luminance >>along the road. Sainio worked with the original negative, Hyzer >>with a copy. Sainio's analysis was completely independent of >>mine. He has shot down a number of UFO photos an videos (as have >>I), but he was not able to punch holes in Ed's photos. >>Sainio told me he was particularly impressed with the fact that >>Ed, the notorious hoaxer he was supposed to be, would allow the >>originals ou of his (Ed's) control where all sorts of tests >>could be done to test for fakery. With all due respect to Mr. >>Hyzer and experience, the fact is that photo analysis experience >>is not all it takes in UFO investigation. >I think this is a very important point that tends to be >overlooked in the rest of the hubris - that Ed allowed the >originals to be tested. >If Ed was such a hoaxer he wouldn't have gained anything by >doing that. Did Billy Meier do that? Uh, I don't think so. He had plenty to gain and nothing to loose. If the photos were found to be faked, so what. He says, "Haha, gotya!" If they are declared real he keeps playing the joke. And speaking of jokes. I recently read an article by a woman who was on the staff of the newspaper down there when it was all going on. She claims that she and another woman knew Walters and the editor... what was his name?... were pulling a hoax and she claimed that she was told by the editor to make sightings of non-UFOs into UFOs to keep the hysteria going. Ill see if I can find more on that. BTW: she said she was afraid of being fired at the time, she was a single mother and couldn't afford to rock the boat. But feels quite compromised now and bad that she didn't speak up at the time. <snip> >The biggest problem I see with videotape and photographic >evidence is that it will always be challenged as to it's >authenticity and analysis methodology. That's why it's my >opinion that UFO photographs make poor evidence. I personally >would put more credence in the testimony of multiple witnesss >corroboration of a sighting than a crystal clear photograph, >which will always be under suspicion, even if proven with a >gazillion dollars worth of high-tech photo analysis to be >completely legitimate. Totally agree. >I think it's unfair, but you will probably have to put up with >this kind of demeaning crap from your mealy-mouth detractors >mainly because you have been so high profile on the Walters >photo analysis. Mealy mouth detractors? I would think that anyone in ufology would welcome discourse. How do we learn if we don't speak freely, and look at criticism as a way of tightening up our suppositions? After all, if Dr. Maccabee hadn't been criticized in the first place he never would have been able to change his calculations (over and over again) giving us the final conclusion (almost) of the dimensions of the craft, distance, etc. That book would have gone to print with the wrong info in it and he would have to defend that! Terry Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 UFOcity.com Report 9/99 From: Peter Robbins <ufolist@mail.teamcpm.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:01:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:55:13 -0400 Subject: UFOcity.com Report 9/99 The UFOcity.com Report "The Truth Matters" September 1999 By Peter Robbins The format of the UFOcity.com Report is editorial content first, followed by information on some of our products. We want to make it easy for you to become more aware of the available resources concerning the topics we discuss in our website, and we will do our best to get them to you quickly, should you choose to order from us. We hope that you will want to be kept up to date on this compelling and often misunderstood subject, but also understand that this may not be the case. If you do not wish to receive any more issues of this free report, simply email us at <ufolist@teamcpm.com> and include the word "unsubscribe" in the subject. We appreciate that your time is valuable and thank-you in advance for your consideration in this matter. Sincerely, Peter Robbins for the UFOcity.com Report --------------------------------------------------------------- September marks the merging of The UFOcity.com Report with my monthly column ("The Truth Matters"). This will allow me to focus on a single, fuller monthly commentary, as well as devote more to building our website; a fair trade-off say I, and hope you will agree. From now on, The UFOcity.com Report will be posted on UFOcity.com in place of "The Truth Matters." Intolerance and UFO's The Internet is a source of much valuable information on the subject of UFO's. It is also the source of a great many unsubstantiated claims and allegations. That was why my first reaction to an item I'd read in an e-zine last month was that it must be nonsense. The item alleged that televangelist Pat Robertson had said that people who believe in the existence of aliens from space and UFOs should be put to death by stoning. Strong stuff. While Pat Robertson is considered controversial by many for some of his beliefs, this zinger sounded just too far out to me to be true. Robertson is a well-known public figure who has run for president and is the head of The Christian Coalition, one of the most determined and best organized political action groups in America. But what if he actually had made the statement? As an admitted member of the target group (pun intended), I was most curious to know and decided to chase down the origin of the story. A few days later I received an email response from Michael Lindemann, a respected colleague whose CNI News http://www.cninews.com/ is one of the most reputable sources of UFO news anywhere on the Internet. Michael's response read, "Peter, This item is true. CNI News carried it at the time it was released. Note the date, mid 1997. ML" The article was attached. This was not the answer I expected. The source of the news item CNI had posted was a 1997 article in the July/August issue of Freedom Writer magazine. Freedom Writer is published by the Institute for Amendment Studies, a group that monitors the right. You can read the complete text (Pat Robertson Advocates Stoning for UFO Enthusiasts) in the CNI News archive http://www.cninews.com/Search/CNI.0782.html), but I thought it was important enough to include the majority of the text here for you to consider: "Great Barrington, MA -- In a recent pronouncement, television evangelist and head of the Christian Coalition, Pat Robertson, advocated death by stoning for UFO enthusiasts... "...A segment on the July 8, 1997 broadcast of The 700 Club featured news of the Mars Pathfinder mission. Employing the historical event as a starting point, the program delved into the possibility of the existence of UFOs and space aliens. "While Robertson viewed the space program with suspicion, on a more serious note, he launched into a diatribe against those who entertain the existence of space aliens and UFOs. He said, in a rambling discourse, that if such things exist, they are simply demons trying to lead people away from Christ. According to Robertson, the threat is so serious that people who believe in space aliens should be put to death by stoning... "Here is what he said to the children of Israel about this whole matter: "'If there is found among you, within any of your gates which the Lord your God gives you, a man or a woman who has been wicked in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing His covenant, who has gone and served other gods and worshipped them, either the sun or moon or any of the hosts of heaven which I have not commanded you, and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination has been committed in Israel, then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has committed that wicked thing, and stone to death that man or woman with stones.'" (Deuteronomy 17:2-5, NKJV)... "Can a demon appear as a slanty-eyed, funny-looking creature? Of course he can, or it can. Of course they can deceive people. And if they can lead somebody away from the true God, or away from Jesus Christ, anyway it happens, it doesn't matter, you will lose your salvation. It doesn't matter how they get you. The question is, did they get you, and under what guise? "This is man in rebellion against God, who refuses to take God's Law. And God says, 'My covenant says you won't do this. And if I find anybody in Israel,'-- "which is his pure nation" -- 'If I find anybody in Israel that's doing this sort of thing, then I want you to take him out and dispose of him. "It's a clear violation of God's word. Skipp Porteous, Freedom Writer publisher, commented: "As the founder and chairman of the Christian Coalition -- a group dedicated to becoming the most powerful political force in America -- Mr. Robertson's extreme ideas need to be taken seriously, for they not only negate pluralism, but condemn to death those who dare to believe differently." End Apparently, the head of The Christian Coalition really did feel that way. Very depressing stuff, and to my way of thinking, irresponsible as well. Someone out there just might take Mr. Robertson seriously enough to stone some of 'us' in the name of God. Did Pat Robertson really believe that anyone who took the subject of UFOs seriously also worshipped aliens, ie: demons and false gods? Or that there were only demons and demon-driven UFO's out there, masquerading as aliens, and not even the possibility of a single bona fide extraterrestrial among them? How could anyone claim to know that? Pat Robertson didn't have an email address I was able to locate, but the Christian Broadcasting Network provided me with a place to leave a brief message, which I did on August 30th: "A segment on July 8 1997's The 700 Club featured news of the Mars Pathfinder mission. Also discussed was the possibility of extraterrestrial life. Mr. Robertson criticized those who entertain the existence of space aliens and UFOs and said that if such things exist, they are simply demons trying to lead people away from Christ. Also that the threat is so serious that people who believe in space aliens should be put to death by stoning. Is this still Mr. Robertson's position on the subject? Thank-you for your time & attention in this inquiry." Two days later (September 1), I received this response from CBNOnline <CBNOnline@cbn.org> "Peter, We appreciate this opportunity to share with you on the subject of UFOs. The term "UFO" simply means "unidentified flying object." It indicates that something has been seen in the air or sky which cannot be explained or identified at that point in time. However, there are many things in life that cannot be explained or identified; that does not necessarily indicate anything "supernatural" is involved, either in a divine or evil way. Most sightings of UFOs are sooner or later identified by some source. Many were not unidentifiable in the first place, but for a variety of reasons the identity was not made known to the public. One reason could be for our own national security, or that of other countries in the world. And a large number of the sightings are simply instigated by pranksters. UFO sightings and other such phenomena should not be confused with the "signs and wonders" we read about in the Bible. Biblical signs and wonders were always provided by God to bring attention to Jesus Christ, His Gospel, and man's relationship to Him. Remember also that God, in times past, spoke to the prophets through various means, including dreams and visions. In these last days God has spoken to all of us by His Son, Christ Jesus. Everything God has to say to us is revealed in His written Word and is activated in our lives by the Holy Spirit. The Bible does indicate that in these last days many signs and wonders will again occur, but Jesus tells us in Acts 1:7-8 not to be concerned about the times and seasons, but to go into the world and proclaim the Good News. We should rest in the assurance of God's Word and be obedient to follow His Word." As to whether or not Pat Robertson still felt that people who believed in space aliens should be put to death by stoning, I can't say. CBN's response chose to ignore my question completely. I wrote back thanking them for their email but again requesting the answer I was seeking. As of this writing, I have still not received an answer, but will post same here if they ultimately choose to respond. Like many other television shows, transcriptions of particular episodes of "The 700 Club" are available through Burrelle's, but only for one year after it is broadcast. We will attempt to secure one, but at this point cannot fully confirm or deny the text of the statement in question. We at UFOcity.com are not claiming that Mr. Robertson actually said 'people who believe in the existence of aliens from space and UFOs should be put to death by stoning;' we are merely reporting on the issue and attempting to get some formal clarification from Mr. Robertson directly. I must say though that I was brought up to respect the right of anyone to practice their religion according to their own beliefs, just as long as those beliefs didn't result in harm to others. This particular belief however only seemed to have the potential to hurt others. With all due respect to my Christian and non-Christian friends, haven't we seen enough random violence in this country over the past years? Is it really necessary to fan the fires of intolerance in this manner? And this aspect aside, how can anyone claim to know that no UFO is extraterrestrial in origin? UFO studies and beliefs are composed of many diametrically opposing views, and I expect will remain so until we actually learn what they are. But advocating the stoning of individuals who take the subject seriously is one belief we would all be better off without. Your questions or comments are welcome by The UFOcity.com Report, but we strongly suggest that your opinions on this matter be sent directly to The Christian Broadcasting Network Online at <http://CBNOnline@cbn.org/common/feedback-700club.asp>. And given the importance of this issue, may we suggest that you send a copy of this article to others who may want to send an email to CBN. -------------------------------------------------------------- X-Files Version of History is Backed by CIA Report Last month the CIA released a formerly secret report documenting the agency's investigations into UFO sightings. It was written in 1993 by official CIA historian Gerald K. Haines at the request of James Woolsey, then Director. Based in great part on unreleased file documents, it was released to the public at the request of the British journal Intelligence and National Security where it was published in their summer issue. Not without irony, the report reads more like a description of the immensely popular "X-Files" television series than most of us would have ever imagined. The historic report documents accounts of real X-Files-type agent/ investigators repeatedly going head to head with their skeptical higher-ups who saw the investigations as "midsummer madness" and categorically refused to take their investigators findings seriously. By the 1950's, a single analyst in the physics and electronics division was given responsibility for reviewing the paranormal data. In true X-Files form however, the CIA's real-life Fox Mulder was constantly being overridden by his immediate superior who the report describes as "a non-believer in UFOs." Try as he might though, the superior was unable to have the X-project shut down. The CIA was concerned that if the Soviets were somehow behind the UFO reports, they might result in "mass hysteria" and an inability on the part of US defenses to distinguish between UFO's and Soviet bombers - a very sobering thought. The CIA ultimately concluded that UFO sightings were explainable in conventional terms, but that the agency's decision to keep their interest in the subject secret ultimately led to the current belief among many Americans that a government cover-up of the subject of the subject had been sanctioned. The earliest full scale UFO investigation was done by American Air Intelligence. "Project Saucer," as the 'TOP SECRET' report was named, was more concerned with the possibility that the unknowns were of Soviet than extraterrestrial, but a number of the officers involved concluded that the phenomenon in question was "interplanetary". At the request of Air Force higher-ups, the conclusion to Project Saucer was re-written to read that "although visits from outer space are deemed possible, they are believed to be very unlikely". The report goes on to describe much agency bumbling which fed the public perception that a cover-up had been put in place. Historian Haines concludes that this perception was strengthened when the CIA refused to release 57 UFO-related documents which had been requested in a Freedom of Information Act action. Again, the full text of the report appears in the summer issue of the British academic journal Intelligence and National Security, but you can read or download the report on the CIA's website; just go to http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ufo.html -------------------------------------------------------------- Observations of Strange Activity on the Moon Nothing New Kudos to NASA for putting a remarkable collection of events online. "450 Years Of Observable Strange Activity On The Moon" is a catalog of of reports of unusual lunar events and is drawn from scientific literature spanning more than four centuries. The purpose of this catalog is to index historical and modern records that may be useful in investigations of possible activity on the moon. Don't miss it at http://www.mufor.org/tlp/lunar.html -------------------------------------------------------------- UFO Exhibition to Tour the World At the 18th Leeds International UFO Conference in England (17-19 Sept), UFO Magazine (UK) announced that a brand new international exhibition will be launched in Australia at the end of this year. The exhibition, named Phenomena! will travel the globe bringing the world of ufology to the general public in an accessible. The exhibition will be like nothing seen before. More information on 'Phenomena! is now available at: http://www.ufo-net.clara.net -------------------------------------------------------------- Breaking News.. If you haven't visited UFOcity.com in the past month, here are some of the news stories you missed -- University of Albany Suspends Implants Research, Lawyer To Sue For Release of 'Real X-Files', The Case Against SETI, CIA's UFO Explanation Is Preposterous, U.S. Prepares For Possible Y2K Violence, Living On An Asteroid, : Flying Triangles Over Israel, The Hosing Of America: How The Media Manipulated Our Minds, Was There a "Roswell" In 1865?, Former Director of Central Intelligence Stripped of Security Clearance, and Major UFO Sighting Over Monterrey Mexico. All these articles and more are available in our archives. Don't miss out on the breaking news this coming month! -------------------------------------------------------------- UFOcity.com Announces Its First label Release! And what a monster it promises to be! Ultimate UFO! will be the most ambitious UFO DVD-ROM set ever released and will include the most comprehensive collection of UFO footage ever assembled anywhere. The clips span almost 50 years and come to us from 26 countries - and from outer space, courtesy of NASA: in short, a total of more than 5 and a half hours of viewing! The footage will be able to be viewed with a music soundtrack, in silence, or with running commentary by myself and noted UFO historian and researcher J. Antonio Huneeus, co-author of UFO Briefing Document - The Best Available Evidence, and International Coordinator for the Mutual UFO Network. The DVD will include excerpts from the USAF's Project Blue Book Archive, Gulf Breeze and Mexico City footage, official NASA footage from Gemini, Apollo and Discovery missions, as well as other famous film clips. To compliment this remarkable collection, Ultimate UFO! will feature more than 250 pages of fully authentic declassified government UFO documents, many of which had formerly been classified SECRET and TOP SECRET. These papers are remarkable in their contents. They make clear in no uncertain terms how seriously the offices and agencies of the United States government have taken the subject of UFO's since they first appeared on the scene in 1947. Compelling reading? An understatement. America's Post War history is indelibly stamped with 3 letters - U-F-O! The DVD will also include explosive selections from the now legendary MJ-12 papers -- the most controversial documents in the history of UFO studies. Ultimate UFO! will be unlike any other DVD ever released. Its other features will be listed here next month, as well as particulars of a very special offer to those who pre-order the DVD set. The cost will not be in the stratosphere either with a suggested retail price of $39.99. -------------------------------------------------------------- UFO-Related CD-ROM's Now Available at Reduced Price! UFOcity.com Report is excited to announce that the CD-ROM versions of BEYOND ROSWELL, LEFT AT EAST GATE and PSYCHIC DISCOVERIES are now on sale! Instead of paying the list price of $29.95 each, all three titles can now be had for the price of two - $59.90! These extraordinary CD-ROM's are packed with information, documents and video clips and are all designed to play on both PC's and Macs. All contain the full text of the books they are based on (with PSYCHIC DISCOVERIES containing 2 complete books). For ordering information, click on <http://www.ufocity.com/shop/cdroms.html>. Particulars on all three follow: Beyond Roswell The crash at Roswell is the best-known UFO incident in the world. Beyond Roswell examines all of the facts from that day in July 1947 and brings forth the proof that aliens had crash landed on this earth. Many of the people involved in the cover-up of the crash came forward, at great personal risk, to speak about what they witnessed. Features digital footage of the alleged alien autopsy film, a fully searchable text, hundreds of indexed pages of supporting photos, documentation, video clips, a screensaver and much more. Left At East Gate: A First-Hand Account of the Bentwaters-Woodbridge UFO incident, Its Cover-up and Investigation. With more evidence than was ever found at Roswell, the events chronicled in this book constitute the best-documented UFO incident in the history of Great Britain, and in the annals of the United States Air Force. Contains the complete text of the five hundred page British best-seller, search engine, supporting documents, military records, letters, maps, color photographs, UFO information databases, screensaver and almost fifty minutes of location video and interview footage. Psychic Discoveries Includes the complete text of the two definitive books on psychic breakthroughs in the Soviet Union: the international best-seller, Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain, and The Iron Curtain Lifted. These books reveal the "inner-space-race" that raged during the Cold War and was won by the Soviets. Here are the startling revelations of how Soviet scientists succeeded in harnessing psychic weapons. Also contains search capacities, photographs, screensaver, selected articles from the ESP Papers: Soviet Scientists Speak Out. and rare video footage of psychokinesis (mind over manner) -------------------------------------------------------------- Picks From This Month's Arcturus Online Catalogue To order any of these provocative titles, simply go to http://www.UFOcity.com/arcturus/index.cfm 5. Berliner, Don, and Robert J. Durant. NEAR MISS WITH A UFO: SWISSAIR FLIGHT 127. UFO Research Coalition, 1999. 8 _ x 11, 74pp, saddle-stitched, stiff wraps. Investigation of an August 9, 1997 near miss between a Swissair 747 and an unknown, cylindrical-shaped object 23,000 feet over Long Island, NY. After subtracting the impossibilities (light aircraft, weather balloon) the conclusion is that the mysterious object can only be an "unknown." Fully documented, solid, $15.00 9. Clark, Andrew J. H., and David H. Clark. ALIENS: CAN WE MAKE CONTACT WITH EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE? 1999, HC, 293pp, glossary, bibliog., index. There are an awful lot of shell-shocked ufologists staggering around dazed and disoriented these days, victims of both excess and deprivation. Excess of blind belief, of hoaxing, of computerized "morphing" of what used to be visual reality, of scientific undermining of aerial phenomena, and of ufology itself--in which its core of true believers, psychos and creeps without real lives make approaching the subject almost intolerable to the well-balanced seeker of truth. Deprivation of meaningful hard evidence, the lack of which does much to obliterate one's motivation to keep on toughing it out, hoping for a breakthrough. This book is a good exercise in re-orienting one's position. It touches all the bases, has lots of UFO content, and it offers hope that eventually, contact with "IMETI" ('ETI capable of Interstellar Mobility') will happen. That's a better deal than you get from most SETI books these days--so take advantage of it! $25.00 16. (Documents) PROJECT GRUDGE. FUFOR, 1999, lg. softbound, about 300pp. All the documentation pertaining to Project Grudge. As such, a must for libraries emphasizing the historical aspects of Ufology. Rob Swiatek contributes the foreword. $25.00 19. Good, Timothy. ALIEN BASE. 1999, qual. soft, 419pp, notes, index. Finally, this British best-seller gets its first U.S. edition. Some of the content (global in scope) is recycled from Beyond Top Secret, but about half of it is new material. Great reading from one of the best and most capable ufologists, $15.00 23. Johnson, Donald A., PhD, with David R. Saunders PhD. THE UFOCAT99 USER'S GUIDE. 1999, 8 _ x 11 spiral bound, 70pp. UFOCAT 99 is a computer database of over 109,000 UFO reports, the result of a 30-year effort which had its origins in the Condon Committee project. A CD-rom of the database will hopefully be available in September (we will offer upon publication). This present work is a guide to the parameters of the database and has been prepared so that the serious ufologist can obtain maximum benefit from it. If you are determined to have the database, and want to get a head start on using it, this is the essential way to prepare. $25.00 44. Weinstein, Dominique. AIRCRAFT UFO ENCOUNTERS: A CATALOG OF MILITARY, AIRLINER, PRIVATE PILOTS' UFO SIGHTINGS FROM 1916 TO 1998. Project ACUFOE, 1999. Lg. spiral bound, 62pp. Capsule summaries of 443 cases involving the best eyewitnesses there are to UFO encounters--pilots of all kinds. $10.00 55. INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER. Spring 1999, Vol 24:1. More than half of this issue is taken up by Bill Chalker's "Strange Evidence," which is an analysis of an alleged alien pubic hair which was left behind following a human-alien sexual encounter in Australia. Also, a "Behavioral Classification System for UFO Occupants," by Mark Cashman, and Thomas E. Bullard on "Abductions and Researcher Bias: how to Lose Your Way." A best bet, $6.00 68. Belzer, Richard. UFOS, JFK AND ELVIS: CONSPIRACIES YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE CRAZY TO BELIEVE. Ballantine, 1999. HC, 228pp. One long stand-up comic routine. $24.00 117. Scott, Irena Chase. UFOS AND THE MILLENNIUM: INFORMANTS, CONSPIRACIES, SYNCHRONICITIES, CRASHES, MILITARY BASES, GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT, COVER-UPS, INSTALLATIONS AND NEW SCIENTIFIC PARADIGMS. 1999, 7 x 9 softbound, 275 2-col pp, bibliog, illus. in text. Divided into 4 sections, from early years, through the '60s, into the "alien explosion of 1970-75, and "after the crest, 1975 to the present," the author has crammed a good-sized book with fascinating material. Autographed copies, ultra-limited edition, $24.95 -------------------------------------------------------------- Video Pick of the Month: Tunguska - The Russian Roswell In 1908, villagers in a sparsely populated region of Siberia, near the Tunguska River, witnessed a large glowing object racing across the sky and explode in mid-air with the force of a 40 megaton atomic blast completely destroying over 2,000 square miles of forest. 91 years later, ongoing investigations have failed to yield a conclusive scientific explanation. Was it the result of a naturally occurring meteoric event? Some sort of futuristic military weapon? Or the explosion of an alien spacecraft? Secrecy since the days of Stalin have shrouded and confused the event... until now. Hear from one of the last living eyewitnesses of this event as well as a former KGB officer who describes the cover-up surrounding this event, and how metallic evidence gathered from the area by the Soviet military subsequently disappeared. Don't miss this revealing account of the events at Tunguska and decide for yourself why the shroud of secrecy was so completely drawn around this uniquely historic event! To order your copy, go to <http://www.UFOcity.com/cfufocity.cfm?Cat=U191> -------------------------------------------------------------- In Closing - Taking Humor a Bit Too Seriously? Zen Comics Publishing - a company which bills itself as "a recognized leader in the movement to provide a more balanced view of ETs in the popular culture," is urging us all to boycott the sitcom "3rd Rock From the Sun." Publisher Steve Stern has issued a statement saying that "'3rd Rock From the Sun' is particularly offensive its portrayal of aliens as hopelessly gullible, pathetically foolish and moronic beings who are ill-equipped to deal with modern human society." Zen Comics Publishing is urging everyone who believes that extraterrestrial biological entities deserve a fair and balanced portrayal in the media to contact the NBC network, the sponsors whose commercials support the program, as well as their local television affiliate running "3rd Rock from the Sun" in syndication. Stern said, "The boycott will remain in effect until such time as the show's producers take significant remedial action, such as including a positive alien role." Certainly "3rd Rock from the Sun" is one of the goofier depictions ever put forward of extraterrestrial life forms, but we won't be holding our breaths waiting for the show to get serious. If you take Zen Comics urgings seriously though, you can visit http://www.zenintergalacticninja.com and sign their Petition Against Alien Discrimination, or call or email Zen's publisher Steve Stern at (818) 598-8190 or ZenEmail@aol.com. Live long and prosper, and have an interesting month.. -------------------------------------------------------------- If you have a friend who you think might enjoy receiving the UFOcity.com Report, please tell them about it or forward them a copy. To subscribe, email us at <ufolist@teamcpm.com> and include the word "subscribe" in the subject. To unsubscribe, email us at the same address and include the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: The Challenge From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:41:15 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:16:53 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge Errol, John, Kevin, and Listfolk As much as I admire John for his tenacity, strength of character and sheer bloody-mindedness I think he was wrong to cut Kevin short the way that he did. I will continue to read both peoples input on this list, I can always "hit the delete" if I don't like the posting, and I do when I do! I have investigated the abduction phenomena as much as I can in the UK because we do not have the sheer number that you do in the states, that is thankfully we don't. I have absolutely no bias either way, _but_ I will look at both sides of the argument. Sleep disorders, astral projection, whatever, versus actual abduction, I have an open mind. That is all anyone can truly ask in my opinion. I have not yet met face-to-face someone who I _believe_ has been abducted, but that does not stop me _knowing_ that some people believe that they have been abducted. I would not wish abduction on anyone, not even Phil Klass! I fully respect Jim Mortellaro, John Velez, Lynne Bishop, Linda Cortille and any others on this list and everywhere for their conviction and ability to carry on living against adversity, but in this one instant John you have a disfavour to you all. -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:49:54 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:43:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:50:38 -0400 >From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:44:18 +0100 >>From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 Hi Roy, Andy and all, >>I didn't realize Rendlesham was now considered a "Non UFO Case"? >>Who was responsible for the final nail in the coffin then? Only >>I know there are possibly a few people on this list who think >>Rendlesham was a major UFO case. >I didn't actually say that Roy. It is a UFO case. However, there >is no real evidence as some have claimed that a craft ET or >military came down or crashed. Of course there was no crash, this is the first time I have even heard it suggested. Whatever happened at Rendlesham (alien or whatever) came and left intact. I do however remember someone (I can't think who at the moment) putting forward the idea that the trained military personnel involved mistook the local lighthouse for a UFO. If this were the case then the military personnel involved were no more use than a chocolate tea pot. >>BTW; What Post Generation group do you put yourself in? <LoL> >Post Ace of Wands my boy - now there was a TV show! Ace of wands was one of my fav's (showing my age here), I wonder what ol' Tarots doing these days? Performing the same old illusions and fighting against the hand of Stabs (Estabies) no doubt. Here's a few others that might spark a memory: Sky Children of the stones The Tomorrow People Timeslip Those were the day's :-) Dave.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:59:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:47:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:16:28 -0300 >>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:39:20 -0700 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >>>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:40:25 +0100 >>>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@ukgateway.net> >>>Subject: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >>>From: Brian Grindrod <grindrod@omen.com.au> >>>To: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> >>>Subject: UFO sighting research >>>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:50:39 +0800 ><snip> >>Dear John and Grindrod: >>I have only one sighting listed here on the *U* Database that >>might be relevant. >>This listing is for 27 OCT 1979 at Motunau Beach, Northeast of >>Christchurch on South Island. The time is not given here, but I >>entered 0630 hours (i.e. morning?) >>Some odd night-lights were seen, and photos were taken of these. >>According to some observers, they appeared to be attached to >>some roundish object, like two decks of windows or lights on the >>periphery. There are drawings or sketches in my original source, >>not now at hand, which is: >>Lumieres dans la Nuit (LDLN) issue #198. I would have to dig out >>that issue to provide more info. >>If this is not the proper sighting, it is quite possible that I >>never listed it due to the apparent explanation as the lights >>from shrimping boats (as I vaguely recall). >I believe that the sightings in question which were "explained" >as a squid boat fishing fleet took place Dec. 21, 1978 and >thereafter and were investigated in detail by Dr. Bruce Maccabee >who went down under and talked to all the aircraft and radar >witnesses and published in Applied Optics 18 (1979); 2527-28 and >the Journal of Scientific Exploration 1.2 (1987) 149-190. >Jerome Clark's excellent The UFO Book has a good summary with >references (there are books) on pp415-418. >Stan Friedman Dear John, Stan and all: "Grindrod" emailed me directly yesterday with the corrected time frame. I have already responded privately with four listings, all from 20-25 DEC 1978 in that general area. The set of incidents was well known and documented, but somehow I confused shrimp with squids, something fishy in any case. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: The Challenge From: Lynne Bishop <lynnebishop@softhome.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:48:43 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:53:09 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:09:42 EDT >Subject: Re: The Challenge >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:28:51 -0700> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Lynne Bishop <lynnebishop@softhome.net> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >John Velez said <snipped for brevity>: >Everyone should take the time to write to Budd Hopkins, David >Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, John Carpenter et al and -ask >them- to collectively contribute any materials they may be in >possession of that may help to advance what little is known >about UFO abductions. If it turns out that they _don't_ have >anything of value in stock then that fact should also be known. ______________________________ >KRandle responded: >I think you might have found the problem. There is nothing in >stock of value. ______________________________ Lynne Bishop stated (to Kevin Randle): >Sir, your post is primarily well-written, but this comment >prejudges data and information that you are not privy to at this >time. Prejudging the data is incorrect, regardless of one's >personal spin on the abduction phenomenon. ____________________________ And Kevin Randle responded: >Actually, I have been privy to a great deal of that information >and it is not conclusive. Besides, I was merely suggesting that >John Velez might be right when he suggested that if there was >nothing of value hidden away, we should be aware of that as >well. Hello again, Dr. Randle, I'm fully aware of the numerous hours of research you've devoted to ufology, and I realize you have personally investigated numerous cases (i.e., the Roswell crash.) That, in particular, is why your comment about other researchers "having nothing in stock of value" is so disturbing to me. You would, I'm sure, take umbrage yourself if you and the hard work you had put forth were to be so summarily dis- missed as "having no value" -- especially if that dismissal was obtained prior to -all- the evidence having been analyzed. John Velez's statement was a request to -have- that evidence -- all evidence -- turned in for analysis. Only then would the evidence stand or fall on its own merits. Until that time, in an ideal world <G>, none of us would prejudge what might or might not be proven by that evidence or lack thereof. Then again, an ideal world would probably be a rather dull place, with no room for conjecture or debate. :-) >We have all heard about the important evidence that is just >around the corner, that universities and laboratories are >investigating and that those results will be made known as soon >as they are available, yet the results are rarely made >available. That should raise a few red flags as well. No argument from me, sir. To give credit where it's due, I believe that the majority of persons on this list (UFO UpDates) would agree that the results of such investigations should be made available to the public. >I think here of all the times that I have been told that a piece >of the debris from Roswell, or photographs of the crash site, >can be found. I have spent a great deal of time chasing down >those rumors only to find at the end there is still another >step. Somehow that debris is always just out of reach. Now we >hear about the policeman from Illinois that might has seen the >metal, and the rancher near Vaughn who has something that is >like no Earthly metal. Of course, we have be unable to get to >the debris for analysis. Your frustration with the situation is mirrored in John Velez's original post. In all fairness, I believe that frustration is felt by both sides of the abduction conundrum. >And, what of the metal that was announced so publicly in Roswell >in 1997 that hasn't been heard of since... Except for the >scientist who told me two months later that announcing the >results had been premature. I agree with your sense of frustration. >The point is, I think John was right when he said that we need >to know if there is nothing of value hidden away. I will agree that we need to know the truth, and I think that can only be obtained by -all- of the evidence (pro or con) being impartially analyzed, and hopefully not prejudged. >KRandle also said: >Okay, but be open to the alternative explanations. Lynne then said: >This cuts both ways. KRandle responded: >Absolutely, but before we embrace a new point of view we should >require that there be solid evidence for it. No argument. The researchers will have to be the ones to turn the evidence over for analysis; otherwise we're just debating "hot air balloons". <G> Sincerely, Lynne Bishop
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 2 Australian Sighting Reports: 22.09.1999 From: Diane Harrison - Keith Basterfield Network <tkbnetw@fan.net.au> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:45:49 +1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:59:27 -0400 Subject: 2 Australian Sighting Reports: 22.09.1999 2 Australian Sighting Reports: OZ File 22.09.1999 The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia - http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw/new Original message: Australian UFO Hotline Call 1800 Callin Code: 00315 Date: 19.9.99 Day:Sunday Time Reported: 8.30pm Source: Chris S Location: Boronia Victoria Tel: 03 Hi, We have another call on our hot line for you this evening. Message: I have just seen 3 bright lights in the sky and I would like an explanation, please phone me. End Message Regards Jan ________________________________ Call back made by Diane AUFORN ________________________________ FOLLOWUP 1800 Callin Code:00315 By Diane Harrison AUFORN Date: 19.09.199 Time Observation: 7.45pm Location: Boronia Victoria in a North Easterly direction Shape: No clear shape Star Like Size: 5 cent piece Objects: 3 Colour: Dull orange Sound: None Speed: Faster than a plane Duration: 1 minute or so. Witnesses: 1 Reportee: Chris Sh Report By Diane Harrison AUFORN Christen said she was walking her dog on Sunday evening when she saw 3 strange looking lights in the sky. At first she thought they were stars but they were in a V formation. I was scared of what i saw and went straight home. That's when I called 013 and they gave me your number. These objects things moved apart then they moved back together then they formed a perfect V formation. and traveled away getting smaller. (Q) Do you think they could have been the RAAF or some kind of plane? (A) "No" I have lived here for quite a while and have never seen planes with those kind of lights before. Any way when they went away they formed a straight line and faded off in the distance. 1800 Callin Code: 000321 22.09.1999 Report By Diane Harrison AUFORN Date: 22nd.09.199 Day: Wednesday Time Observation: 8.30pm Location: Mulgrave, Bayswater Victoria in a North Easterly direction Shape: No clear shape Star like Size: 50 cent piece Colour: Dull orange Objects: 3 Sound: None Speed: Slight movement Duration: 4 minute Witnesses: 4 Reportee: Fabian T & Girl friend Fabian Said: I walked outside to get into my car when this guy yelled out to me to have a look at these strange lights in the sky. "hey what the hell are they" we stood and watched them. They were big, they just hung in the sky . One object would move way from the other then it would move back to the other 2 objects. They did this for around 4 to 5 minutes then they formed a V formation and faded out one at a time. I tell you we we're all scared it was as though it was watching us. I got in my car and took off home and I tell you I don't scare easily. (Q) Do you think it could have been a plane or garbage bags. (A) No! way I've know the bag trick and these things were definitely not them or a plane "it just stood still in the sky the size of a 50 cent piece. Report forms sent out more details to come. Regards Diane Harrison AUFORN Co Director The Australian UFO Research Network. Australian Skywatch Director The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia E-Mail tkbnetw@fan.net.au http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw/new *************************************************************** UFO Australian Research Network Hot Line Number 1800 77 22 88 Free Call ***************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 99 22:33:51 PDT Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:14:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:14:35 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:31:54 -0600 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:43:56 -0400 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>>>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>>>Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT Patient and gentle listfolk: >And speaking of jokes. I recently read an article by a woman who >was on the staff of the newspaper down there when it was all >going on. She claims that she and another woman knew Walters and >the editor... what was his name?... were pulling a hoax and she >claimed that she was told by the editor to make sightings of >non-UFOs into UFOs to keep the hysteria going. Now, let me get this straight. Isn't Evans the same guy who was just trashing somebody for taking "anecdotal evidence" seriously? I guess one standard applies to him, another to everybody with whom he disagrees. The above doesn't even rise to "anecdotal evidence." "Unverified rumor" is a lot closer. But hey, if you're trashing somebody, unverified rumors will do. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: The Skeptical Believer From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:59:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:23:52 -0400 Subject: Re: The Skeptical Believer >From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The Skeptical Believer >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:50:02 -0500 >The Skeptical Believer - John Shirley >[Didn't get a chance to clean this up yet for the site, but >thought I'd go ahead and send it before I head off to the NUFOC >con (see upcoming shameless plug).- TB] >The following is excerpted (hence the disconnected, episodic >quality) from a talk I just gave to MUFON in San Jose on 'Pitfalls >Of Ufology'... I wasn't going to talk about UFOs here anymore but >since I agreed to give this talk and have this material. > From 'Pitfalls of Ufology': >This is a talk about the pitfalls of ufology. All along, there >have been, roughly speaking, two basic trails to follow, in >ufology. One is the anything goes trail, which accepts almost >any claim, any unsupported testimony, no matter how wild; the >second trail is the one defined by people like J Allen Hynek, >and Jacques Vallee and Kevin Randle, that is, people who at >least try to apply scientific rigor to the issue. Offshoots of >this trail are those, like Philip Klass, who have pretty much >made up their mind that the phenomenon is not exotic or >interplanetary. <snip> >Photographs of UFOs are usually even more problematic. I've >never seen a UFO photo or film that couldn't have been either >faked-or which couldn't be of an object so distantly, >distortedly seen it could be many other things. >One of the most famous series of photos was taken off the coast >of Brazil - it shows an object like a flattened Saturn, a very >definite saucerlike anomaly. It sounded good at first and looks >good too - there were supposedly dozens of other witnesses besides >the photographer, according to the Brazilian papers. >Many years later a researcher did travel to the area and found >some people who claimed to be among those witnesses - but by then >the case was tainted by having become famous. >Brazil is permeated, quite literally permeated, with UFO >mythology and alien invasion folklore. People there adore it. >But the main reason to doubt this famous photo is simply that >the photographer turned out to be someone who was well known for >trick photography, including double exposures; and he was >someone who'd been involved in faking UFO photos before. . He's referring to the Brazilian Navy sighting with photographer Baruna over Trindade Island. I gather that he hasn't really studied this sighting, just parroted skeptical comments by Menzel et al. >According to my approach - that eliminates these photos for good. >They are blighted by the photographer's lack of credibility. And >besides they simply look like double exposures of a model to me. That's good reasoning... "they simply _look_ like double exposures..." Does he know the conditions under which they were taken and does he know that they were developed on board ship with the Captain watching to be sure there was no problem? >Kevin Randle, in his excellent new book 'Scientific Ufology', >seems to lean toward the photo series' reality - but I discard >them completely and utterly because the photographer had been >known to fake these sorts of things. Randle knows more about it than Shirley!! >I also discard repeaters - people who've seen a UFO more than once >are, in my opinion, less credible than a first timer. The odds >against seeing one more than once - except perhaps if you're an >astronaut, say - are extremely high. >Most people, if not all people, who claim to have repeated >experiences with UFOs turn out to be hoaxers or self-deluding. >That's just the way it has shaped up in the field over the >years. For this reason I discard the famous McMinville Oregon >photo by Paul Trent, which appears to show some spacecraft >details: Trent had had other UFO experiences. And it would be >easy to fake the photo with a model. Kevin Randle however >believes the photo is real. "(Paul) Trent had other UFO experiences". Oh yeah? His wife claimed to have seen something in the sky before the photo sighting and she claimed to have seen a couple in years following. Why didn't they take more pictures to prove the later ones were real? (Sorry... really a stupid question.) However, the case for the Trents is built on their own activities and attitudes. Evidently Shirley knows nothing about the Trent's lives or just how likely they would be to try to fake the photo with a model. Also, it would not have been that "easy," given what we know about the photometry and photo= grammetry. I presume he is basically reciting the Klassic approach to the Trent case.
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:59:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:33:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:55:52 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT >>>>Bruce Maccabee, you continue to be an embarrassment to the >>>field of ufology. <snip> >>>Dr. Maccabee came up with another "why it is" story. i.e "Its >>>that bricks... no, its the dent, no its the mud...." A good >>>investigator would have already been aware of this and figured >>>it into the investigation at the time, not upon criticism.>> >>I have a Ph.D. in physics. >Physics is a broad category. What in your background, (briefly) >educationally or professionally qualifies you to analyze the >Walters photos? I understand the Hyzers are photogrammetrists. >How does your education and experience compare to theirs? (That i>s they do photo analysis as a sole profession.) Optics. I started analyzing photos, beginning with the Trent photos, in the early 1970s. Then did numerous others including the famous (20 year ago) New Zealand movie film. I have analyzed the photo by Roger Childerhose (RCAF pilot, 1955) which appears on the front of Klass' first book (as a possible plasma, according to Klass). I have also analyzed numerous videos and photos since the Gulf Breeze sightings of 1987-1988 (the subject of Blacks "discourse"). Over the years Ihave seen many photos of lights at night, lens flares, developer drops (essentially flaws in the developing) and "UFOs" that appear in photos after they are developed, but not seen by the photographers at the time. Since I don't do photos as a full time profession I guess I should go back into a corner and hide. Jeff Sainio, on the other hand, does photo analysis and processing as part of the work his company does. >>The bent hood and blocks in the back end of th truck.and the >>lack of a reflection in th hood were all thoroughly researched >>in the summer of 1988, two years before Mr. Black came onto the >>scene with Hyzer. >Can you tell me where and when this information was first >published, I would like to read more about it. The first mention of this is on page 12 of the April 1989 MUFON Journal. It mentions experiments done in the summer of 1988 that determined that below a certain height a light in front of the truck would not reflect from the hood. This was a result of the hood being bent. This was an experiment done without blocks in the truck, although Ed told me there were blocks in the rear of the truck at the time of the sighting and photo. >As an observation. You say that the bricks etc., make the hood >rise, however in looking at photo 19 in the book, it looks like >the camera angle is downward and the hood is horizontal. >I also know in carrying large loads in my truck, that regardless >where I place the weight, the whole vehicle tends to lower >proportionately. I have never had an instance where the front >end was riding appreciably higher than the back.> >Since Mr. Walters was/is in construction it would seem the he >would know how to load a truck with the weight over the axles. Yes, yes. Well, Ed said he was transporting 40 lb cinder blocks from one site to another and he just placed them in the rear of the bed of the truck for convenience. He said he could feel the effect of the loading while he was driving. Experiments were done to estimate the amount of tilt of the truck since Ed recalled about how many blocks he had at the time. The dense discussions of this were 5 or more years ago and I don't recall where the results of the block experiment were published. >My work and the independent work of Mr. Sainio (who didn't write >any book chapter and was not paid one cent by anyone) has shown >the Hyzer's analysis was incomplete and at least in one case >just plain wrong (Hyzer's explanation of photo 1). >>>William G. Hyzer, with all of his sophisticated equipment, has >>>proven that there was no luminosity coming down the road, >>>contradicting Jeff Sainio's contention with 12-years of >>>experience in the field of photographic analysis. >>Note here that Black refer's to Sainio's detection of luminance >>along the road. Sainio worked with the original negative, Hyzer >>with a copy. Sainio's analysis was completely independent of >>mine. He has shot down a number of UFO photos an videos (as have >>I), but he was not able to punch holes in Ed's photos. >Why did Mr. Sanio have the original negatives and Mr. Hyzer only >a copy? Seems like you stacked the deck against anything that >Hyzer would find that was contrary to your findings. You simply >say, he didn't have the original. Subsequently his analysis is >flawed. Easy out. You should read "Photo analysis: a Pictorial Primer" by Jeff Sainio published in the 1992 MUFON Symposium Proceedings. That contains Sainio's analysis of photo 19 and other photos. Seems like I stacked the deck, eh? Or is it that you don't know what happened? I was not even aware of Hyzer's agreement with Walt Andrus to study Ed's photos. I heard through the grapevine that an independent study was going on, but I didn't know by whom until the study was basically done. Point: Hyzer agreed with Andrus to study 8 x 10 copies which Andrus had made from the original Polaroids. I had nothing to do with it. Sainio got the originals because I asked Ed to send him the originals. As for "Easy out" I should point out that the analysis stands on its own. Look in computer analyzed picture of photo 19 in Sainio's paper (Figure 27, page 150). You can see what he's talking about when he says there must have been some illumination of the lines along the side of the road from the UFO. Alternatively, had the photo been a double exposure you would expect the brightness contours would be random everywhere, not just at locations far from the UFO image. >If you wanted a level playing field, you would have insisted >that Hyzer have exactly what you and Mr. Sanio had to work with. As I said above, Hyzer did his analysis before I even knew there was a playing field. Hyzer, of course, had the option to say that he wouldn't proceed without the originals. Instead, according to Andrus, Hyzer implied that he could do just as good an analysis with the copies. Perhap if he had approached Ed directly when he first became interested Ed would have let him borrow some or all of the originals. >BTW: Why didn't you all just work together? Even if you >disagreed, the debate would have been terrific, as colleagues >not adversaries. I talked to Hyzer after his paper was done. Tried to get a discussion going. Hyzer's paper was published by the MUFON Journal, as you are (probably) aware. Hyzer got totally disgusted with some of the people who contacted him, however, and decided to "leave the field." He had no idea of the types and intensities of arguments that go on. He wasn't prepared to tackle all the other aspects of UFO investigation that go along with photo analysis. >>Sainio told me he was particularly impressed with the fact that >>Ed, the notorious hoaxer he was supposed to be, would allow the >>originals ou of his (Ed's) control where all sorts of tests >>could be done to test for fakery. With all due respect to Mr. >>Hyzer and experience, the fact is that photo analysis >>experience>is not all it takes in UFO investigation. >Who made the first generation negs? Ed's photos were color Polaoid pictures. There were no "first generation negs" unless you mean negs from which other prints were made. (Andrus made the negs from which the prints were made that Hyzer worked with.) <snip> >>More of the disinformation or lack of information spread by Mr. >>Black and others. This has been explained numerous times in the >>past 9 years. Oechsler hired another photo expert and together >>they carefully cleaned the original Polaroid photos of Ed, then >>they proveeded to make literally hundreds of prints and slides >>from the originals, taking care to eliminate glare and obtain >>perfect focus. It took weeks and the materials and lab time cost >>$$$. >It seems to me that by eliminating glare and obtaining perfect >focus any data that those imperfections might have held is gone. >Can't that be considered as tampering with evidence? I can >understand getting specks off the pictures and negs but not >changing anything. I guess this shows what you know! The attempt here is to make the most faithful copy possible of the original. To do this you have to illuminate the original photo with a lot of light and then photograph it. When you illuminate a photo with light some of the light reflects from the top surface that acts somewhat like a mirror. This is like glare or reflection from plate glass. Hold a glossy print under a light and twist it around or bend it. You will see reflections of the light. Anyway, Oechsler had to set up lights corectly to minimize or eliminate this glare or else the copy would have light images on it that were _not_ on the original. The same goes for focus. You can't change the focus of the original. But you don't want the copies to be in worse focus (fuzzier) than the original. Again I say, the attempt is to get the most faithful reproduction and to add nothing (or as little as possible). This is not easy. Just ask your local photo expert. <snip> >>This a crock. People in the ufo community criticize each other >>all the time. Unfortunately it is hard to find anything abou Mr. >>Black to criticize because, so far as I know, he has only >>commented on Gulf Breeze and the Travis Walton case (where he >>used "lie detection" to prove it actually happened..... although >>there are ufologists who don't accept lie detection as a valid >>means of determining truth.) >Id like to believe you here... but I don't. The people in the >inner circle do not criticize each other. You will go after >(criticze) the next circle out, but you will never go after each >other. Whom do you consider the "inner circle" and whom do you think I should criticize? Perhaps you think I should disagree with the "inner circle" members? If so, who? <snip> >>There were very credible "other people": who said thy saw the >>same thing. Dr. Fenner McConnell and wife, Ray Pollack and two >>others, etc. I know this sticks in Jerry's craw, but the fact >>is that Ed was not alone in reporting the strange UFO. He was >>the only one who took numerous pictures, however. >That alone makes him suspect. And if as everyone says, the >sightings are still going on in Gulf Breeze... hey, where's the >pictures? Mr. Walters and you want us all to believe that "they" >only had eyes for Ed. Take my picture Mr. Walters... I'm ready >for my close-up. Your logic is semi-logical. If no one else were seeing things then for Ed to take lots of pictures would be "way out." However, other people were seeing ":things." And you seem to have ignored my claim that many claimed to have seen the same thing as what Ed photographed. ><snip> >>>Interestingly, in all the pictures that Ed Walters took at his >>>home, not one neighbor ever reported seeing any objects that Ed >>>Walters photographed. Not one. There again, that does not mean >>>that Ed Walters photographs are not real, but it is interesting >>>to note that not one neighbor saw any object that Ed Walters >>>photographed.> >>Wrong. the people across the street had a sighting in early >>April. >There you go. Throwing in unsubstantiated claim. Which >neighbors? And where is the written, dated report?> There you go. Throwing out another unsubstantiated allegation. This was first mentioned in "Gulf Breeze Without Ed" published in the 1991 MUFON Proceedings, page 199. In the article I have written that the witnesses lived "close to Ed" to prevent their
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:11:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:39:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:27:10 -0400 To: updates@globalserve.net From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Thank you for your kind offer but, to be frank >with you I think MUFON is a joke. I have way >too many problems with it as an organization and >as any kind of reliable investigative tool. >I'll wait till I get an offer from a more academic >source. Independant video/photographic experts with >no agenda or stake in the outcome. >Again, thank you for your generous offer but I'd >rather turn the case over to the "Marx Brothers" >before I'd ever get involved with MUFON!" Hi, John! I can understand your concerns with MUFON. However, as former Assistant State Director for Connecticut, and now State Director for Connecticut, I ask that you realize that MUFON is not a monolithic organization but rather a loose confederation of state organizations with widely varying standards. There's no question that some parts of the organization are as bad as it gets and that other parts are much better. I hope MUFON CT has started to be and will continue to improve into one of the better parts of MUFON. There are other chapters which also do good work or have good investigators. In any event, I ask that rather than issue a blanket condemnation of MUFON that you first investigate the investigators. If the people who asked to investigate your sighting are as you fear, you have every right to deny them access to your material. They should be willing to show you case reports, and if those investigations are not up to your standard, then you know they will not perform a suitable investigation. On the other hand, perhaps they will be better than that, and you will have another set of minds to work on your sighting. If you've already done that investigation, and found they do fall short, then don't be afraid to name names and state how they fall short. Without that kind of openness, poor investigations will continue to be done, and case reports which could have been valuable will be lost. Make sure John Schuessler at MUFON is aware of your opinion and why you hold it. Improving MUFON as we move into the 21st century should be a major objective for every serious researcher. There is no other organization in the US with the potential to field the number and quality of investigations we need to document the phenomenon and its physical characteristics. Dismissal of MUFON only makes it harder for those like myself who want to make MUFON a suitable home for the efforts of serious researchers, on-the-fence academics, and volunteers with rational attitudes toward the phenomenon. Why is this important? Because without a higher quality of field data, we will not be able to move ahead in our understanding of UFOs. Historical reports are useful, but the difficulty of assessing them is obvious. New investigations can live up to the higher standards of documentation which are necessary to attain academic recognition. New investigations offer the opportunity to eliminate the ambiguities and missed opportunities of past cases by closely examininhg a new generation of events. And new investigations can leverage available resources to attain higher levels of certainty about the designation "unknown" - or at least make the level of confidence far more explicit. In my view, this is essential. Those among us who are not satisfied with MUFON as it stands have an option - get involved. Don't allow the organization to be turned into one more refuge for crackpot theorists, the uninformed, the mystical, and the rudderless. Don't just throw it away. Work on it. ------ Mark Cashman State Director Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) of Connecticut mcashman@ix.netcom.com http://www.temporaldoorway.com/mufonct/index.htm ------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 02:34:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:46:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:46:43 -0400 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:31:18 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 ><snip> >>I also got 5 photographs that were taken with a telephoto lens >>of fixed focal length. (500mm at f/11 using 400 ASA 35mm >>color Kodak film. The camera body was an old Pentax 35mm >>SLR) >>When I shot the photos the object had moved away from its >>stationary position, (directly overhead) and I also got several >>nearby TV antenna tines into the pix.> Hi Bruce, You wrote: >May as well get it developed as soon as possible. As I said, I've been ill, but I will get the pix processed ASAP. I would just give them to my wife and have her do it but I'd rather pay the few extra bucks to have it done by a lab I use in Manhattan. I'll post whatever comes out. >If you have any film left on the roll shoot a picture of an >object of known size at known distance, say a 3 ft ruler at 30 >ft using the same camera and lens. This will calibrate the >anglular size of objects. Can't calculate actual size unless >actual distance is known. But, with the information on known >size at known distance can provide a range of possible sizes for >a range of possible distances. Will do. It's a 36 exposure roll and I've only used about 5 or 6 frames so there's plenty of room for a few shots of a ruler. Whatever settings I used are still set up on the lens and camera. I won't alter a thing. (Except focus of course!) Thanx for the help and advice Bruce. It's nice to have the guidance and input of someone who knows what they're doing for a change! :) Regards, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:56:20 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:05:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:24:32 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:53:36 -0400 >>I fully agree with what you wrote. I also don't "believe" that >>Ed faked those photos. Many other folks have also seen the Gulf >>Breeze UFOs, in one shape or another. It is so easy to attack >>one witness, instead of confronting a large group of people. I >>think these guys who like to re-hash good cases, trying to find >>ridiculous explanations for them, are chicken. We, as >>researchers, must remember to remind the public that UFO >>witnesses and/or "believers" far outnumber the >>"non-witnesses/believers" by 1� to 1. And the numbers keep >>growing each time someone (who was previously skeptical) reports >>their first sighting. These debunkers don't stand a chance >>against that. This seems to be a re-working of Stanton Friedman's technique of research by referendum - if a majority believe it, it must be so. On that basis we must admire the Inquisition's scientifically-based opposition to that noted sceptical debunker Galileo! The argument throws an interesting light on the viewpoint of eager-believers. In the past we've heard a lot about the attitude of UFO researchers standing up to the might of the majority viewpoint, holding their unconventional views despite being in a small minority. But now the formula seems to be: Believer in a minority: brave pioneer Sceptic in a minority: sad loser Also, everyone who tries to explain a UFO sighting is chicken? This certainly adds to the amount of poultry flapping around in the UFO field. Now we pelicans have to worry about being chicken as well. What an albatross around our necks. Must fly -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Alleged CIA Dir. Meeting With Greer Under Question From: Stefan Duncan <swduncan@foto.infi.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 05:39:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:16:29 -0400 Subject: Alleged CIA Dir. Meeting With Greer Under Question Several days ago, I wrote an editorial challenging the UFO/alien claims by Greer, and how my interview with Greer was denied and my free issues of AUFON were asked to be stopped. Because I was unable to challenge or ask any questions on any of the CSETI "news briefs" that were continued to be sent to AUFON, I asked Tony Craddock to please stop sending me news updates by CSETI. I got a simple, "You are unsubscribed" response. Then, I get this, "By way of Tony Craddock," a defensive response to yet another challenged aspect of Greer's claims. An alleged meeting with a past CIA Director, of which Greer in all of his radio interviews heavily refers to as a one on one three hour meeting with the director specifically with enlightening the Dir. of the UFO evidence is now being questioned. Statements are being made by those who attended the alleged meeting are saying it was only a dinner party. Greer is now saying that the underworld powers to be are causing these denials of the meeting to come to light. A secret government agency whose sole purpose seems to discredit Greer. I guess after a few more editorials challenging Greer, he will be announcing that I too am part of a secret government wing set out to expose his claims as false. You see, Greer wants UFO news services to run his claims but God forbid don't challenge them. Besides, he is too busy to talk to such people. Here is his news, his claims, his statements, you take it, you publish it, but by God, you don't challenge it. And if you challenge it, oh, then it is announced to the world that you are a black government agent set out to discredit him and deny the American public of the truth. Well, we can certainly point the finger his way too. By making outlandish claims of UFO/alien contacts and new age vectoring techniques and high beam flashing communications and Encounter of the Third Kind musical waltzes, people who with normal educated minds must shake their heads in wonder. It is like being told that pro wrestling is real. There are many Ufologists who cringe at Greer's claims and feel such claims are harmful to any ground established for UFOs to be taken seriously as worthy items to be investigated. Greer wants to be the representative of Ufologists and a liaison between US and the ALIENS. Please..... I'd feel more comfortable with a certain Christian leader spokesman who two years ago said all Ufologists should be crucified. I suggest Greer back down. Any person or agency whether government or not that makes claims without showing their evidence or allowing themselves to be challenged should be put under suspicion. Look at this like a trial. "Your Honor, I went into the woods with a group of people. I was told through telepathy to move to the bushes. And there, Your Honor, I saw two semi-visible aliens looking at me with huge sympathetic eyes and communicating with me through sign language and curing my upset stomach. And on another event, Your Honor, I was out in the desert with a colleague by an alleged government sponsored UFO research base. We were stopped by soldiers in a vehicle. They jumped out of the vehicle and pointed their weapons at us and prepared to fire when suddenly a UFO appears and a beam of light hits them. The soldiers go back inside the vehicle and return with a guitar and start singing to us. This is all true, your Honor, that is my story and I am sticking to it. I would answer the lawyer's questions on this issue, but Your Honor, I am too busy and too important. These are my statements. And, if you would like a photo of me autographed and join a weekend seminar for $500 plus, I will teach you how to contact aliens through your mind and vector them down to see you. Got to go now, see ya." This reminds me of a certain computer person who claimed their computer chip was based off a real ET/Alien recovered piece. We will not show you the ET/Alien piece, but you can believe us and buy it. I apologize for my rant and rave, but Ufologists must make a stand because our attempts of giving Ufology a chance of being taken seriously is being reduced to a Hollywood fabricated ego-centric money seeking circus. Stefan Duncan, Editor of AUFON Las ---------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: by way of Tony Craddock <webmaster@cseti.org> <DrSGreer@cs.com> To: <webmaster@cseti.org> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 4:04 AM Subject: Letter From Mr. Woolsey Tonight I was asked by the editor of a small UFO newsletter (CNI News) to comment on a recent letter signed by former CIA Director R. James Woolsey et al regarding my meeting with him on December 13,1993. Apparently, this letter was sent to Michael Lindemann for publication in the September 30 edition of the CNI newsletter. Mr. Woolsey and the others question the accuracy ( or manners) of my depiction of this meeting in the introduction of my new book "Extraterrestrial Intelligence: The Evidence and Implications" (www.DrGreer.com). You can read this introduction on the website for yourself. Mr. Woolsey et al have a very selective memory of this nearly 3 hour briefing of a sitting CIA Director. If anything, and my wife who was present can attest to this, my description of the meeting is incredibly understated. In his letter, Mr. Woolsey (now apparently a lobbyist in Washington) implies that this was not a briefing but only a dinner party, and that the dinner party was not a cover story for the briefing, etc. It must be understood that it was a friend of the CIA Director, Mr. Petersen - not myself - who characterized the dinner party as a cover story for the meeting with the CIA Director. Indeed, Mr. Petersen made the arrangements for this meeting and hosted it at his home in Arlington VA . He told me and my wife that even his wife did not know Mr. Woolsey was coming to their home for dinner until the morning of the briefing. They claim my characterization and specific references describing the meeting were inaccurate. Not at all. Quoting from a sensitive memo FedEx'ed to my home from Mr. Petersen, who made all of the arrangements with the CIA Director: "I talked to Woolsey this morning and he (underlined in the original) suggested getting together over dinner. He was not aware of your organization or that anyone was planning such an announcement {regarding UFOs/smg} . This almost certainly means that , 1)there is an active attempt being made at lower levels of government to sabotage Project Starlight {the CSETI UFO disclosure effort/smg}, 2) this group almost certainly has tapped your phones and is aware of most of the details of your plans..." "If we do have dinner with Jim (Woolsey), we will have moved this whole thing to a much , much higher plane and in doing so raised significant red flags for those who don't want to see this succeed. Operation Starlight will become a serious (underlined) threat to the status quo." "Meetings with people like Woolsey must be kept very closely guarded. I have not even told Diane {Mr. Petersen's wife/smg} about it." "You must understand that great principalities and powers will oppose your plans..." Then, all in bold: "Remember: the most powerful people in the world will have a deep, compelling interest in our activities and will use everything (in italics) at their disposal to effect their objectives." And so forth. Mr. Petersen, who heads up a national security think tank called The Arlington Institute, was working very closely with me during those days and had substantial experience in national security and military matters. From the above quotes it is obvious that this was no mere dinner party! The dinner party was only the cover - and the stakes were and are every bit what Mr. Petersen describes. As for other information contested in Mr. Woolsey's letter, I stand by the account. Regarding Mr. Woolsey's UFO sighting : This was first conveyed to me by his long-time friend Mr. Petersen and was later confirmed at the briefing. In my new book, I reproduce the document handed to Mr. Woolsey during the briefing. In this document, which I handed personally to him, we recommend that Mr. Woolsey and the President move decisively towards a near-term disclosure of the UFO/ETI matter. Just a dinner party? I am certain that Mr. Woolsey knew the UFOs were real and that a very deep cover project was running that area - a project which had kept the CIA Director himself in the dark. Later in their letter, Mr. Woolsey et al complain that my conduct "contravenes ....simple manners". Manners? I was on Larry King Live over 9 months after the meeting with the CIA Director . But this meeting was not disclosed, because Mr. Woolsey was still in office and I felt decorum necessitated silence regarding such meetings. I have behaved with the utmost restraint and have disclosed such matters only after very careful consideration. Indeed, I would not be writing this letter except that Lindemann at CNI plans to publish Mr. Woolsey's 'sanitized ' account of the briefing and has compelled me to write. (Why Mr. Woolsey et al would make such a letter available to Lindemann is beyond me.) I made no pact of silence regarding such meetings. And since disclosing this meeting, I have always portrayed Mr. Woolsey and his wife as people seeking the truth of such matters and as people who wanted excessive secrecy ended. Perhaps I was wrong... Manners? Indeed - if anything, perhaps I have been too restrained. Good 'manners' as it pertains to this subject means speaking the truth - and being willing to stand up for it. Good manners would be public servants such as Mr. Woolsey, Dr. Woolsey and others doing the right thing and working ardently for the truth to be told regarding UFOs and ETI. Good manners should mean being more concerned for the health of our democracy and the constitution than covering-up the import and purpose of such a briefing. And good manners would be joining in the effort to disclose a matter which, once made public, would allow earth-saving technologies to be revealed which would halt the wholesale destruction of our eco-system. As a very busy emergency doctor in NC, with 4 young daughters, I assure you that we did not make that brief trip to Washington DC on December 13, 1993 to sight-see or just to have dinner. But rather, we made that journey to plead for the end of super - secret projects which are being withheld from the people so that our democracy could be made whole and our children's future made sustainable. The current attempt to minimize, obfuscate or cover-up the purpose and details of this briefing with the CIA Director is quite disconcerting -and strange. Why Mr. Woolsey and the others would write such a letter is unknown to me. We can only speculate. I stand by my account. But now, perhaps the time has come for ''we the people' to demand that current and former officials such as CIA Director Woolsey and the President be held responsible for the the lack of action on resolving this most pressing problem. After all, we pay their salaries, provide their perks - and they represent us. It is not I who needs defense. My actions over these long years have spoken my commitment. But we still await action from our elected and appointed officials. As the earth groans under the weight of the errosive and corrupting influences of big money and special interests, I wonder just how much longer we shall have to wait... I think it is time that the American people demand that the waiting time be over. Steven M. Greer M.D. CSETI Director 23 September 1999 Albemarle County Virginia This letter may be reproduced but ONLY in its entirety. copyright 1999 Steven M. Greer M.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting From: Glennys Mackay <glenmack@thehub.com.au> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:29:59 +1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:24:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:16:28 -0300 >>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:39:20 -0700 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >>>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:40:25 +0100 >>>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@ukgateway.net> >>>Subject: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >>>From: Brian Grindrod <grindrod@omen.com.au> >>>To: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> >>>Subject: UFO sighting research >>>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:50:39 +0800 <snip> >I believe that the sightings in question which were "explained" >as a squid boat fishing fleet took place Dec. 21, 1978 and >thereafter and were investigated in detail by Dr. Bruce Maccabee >who went down under and talked to all the aircraft and radar >witnesses and published in Applied Optics 18 (1979); 2527-28 and >the Journal of Scientific Exploration 1.2 (1987) 149-190. >Jerome Clark's excellent The UFO Book has a good summary with >references (there are books) on pp415-418. >Stan Friedman Dear Stan, That was something that Robert Muldoon, Who was the Prime Minister at that time "claimed", that the sightings were the reflection of squid boats fishing off the coast of NZ?!! How the hell can they be spot lights in the damn sky when they are surposed to be using them for finding the fish?? Were they flying fishes? :) Excause my French..... but this is a load of crap..... I was there along with many 100's of other people who witnessed these sightings and some were at low altitude. The one in the paddock behind out house was not a figment of our imagination.or the one that followed me home in April 1964 at approx. 50 feet above my car. 'Bull shit baffles brains', Stan..... and surely some times Stan I just wonder where some of you are coming from. When I organised the UFO Symposiums here in Brisbane, Australia, I sure to God had hoped to have some intelligient information shared from the speakers to the Australians but I honestly wonder where some of you guys are coming from? And yes, I am hopping mad, when I read such un-intelligient rubbish that hasd been written. I have done a lot of home work at ground level with those involved, I had 5 helicoptor pilots staying with me at the time around 1978 and 1979 we used to sit and watch these craft even through binoculars. So I do not know who your friend Bruce MacCabee spoke to, but he certainly did not speak to the witnesses. I also wonder just who pays some of these guys to put out dis-information?! I to would love to be on the pay-roll. :) Half these so-called researchers have never had an experience in their lives, so how the hell can you claim to be an experienced researcher if you have never seen anything? Maybe, Just maybe..... This is our own earthly technology and they are keeping us in the dark as usual..... Have a great day/evening Rev. Glennys Mackay JP, Cont. director MUFON AUSTRALIA & NEW ZELAND.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: UFOcity.com Report 9/99 From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:03:38 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:29:07 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOcity.com Report 9/99 >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:01:38 -0500 >Subject: UFOcity.com Report 9/99 >From: Peter Robbins <ufolist@mail.teamcpm.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >The UFOcity.com Report >"The Truth Matters" >September 1999 >By Peter Robbins <snip> Peter, The CIA UFO History was actually released 2 years ago. It contains a number of errors some involving me as well as false claims that the U-2 and SR71 were responsible for most UFO sightings. I have a 3 page response which I will fax. Bruce Maccabee did a good piece demolishing the U-2 claim. Thanks for Checking on Pat Robertson. I am off to California today. Stan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Max Burns - Background From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:28:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:32:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Max Burns - Background >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 02:40:35 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: Max Burns - Background >Hello British list members, >Sad story about this Max character. Now please enlighten us >about what happened to Suzanne Bradley. >Since she was an accomplice, did she go to jail as well? Does >anyone know what happened to her? Hi there, Because Bradley pleaded guilty and wasn't the dealer, only a buyer, she got the following sentence: Source: Sheffield Star "Bradley, aged 35, of Molineux Road, Shiregreen, admitted possessing them with intent to supply and was sentenced to 120 hours community service." Hope this helps. Tim M. ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:32:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:38:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:40:12 EDT >Subject: Re: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns >To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:50:30 -0400 >>From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> >>Subject: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >The title of which is a sad commentary, at least to me, on those >of who take such pleasure in the misery and mistakes of others, >especially when those others come counter to "us," whomever "us" >are. >Personally, I don't like to hear or read about whether or not >Max burns or Jaime Gesundt fries. Having heard the news ONCE >that the man was arrested is sufficient. But frankly, it seems >to me that people appear too felicitous over this person's >misfortune, even if self inflicted, even if legitimate. That's >the sad part. To me, at least. >"Look what happened to that nasty beastly Burns, you know, the >one who disagreed with US!? Isn't it wonderful? Now that he >has been convicted as a pusher of drugs, we are vindicated!" >So how come you don't talk about me? I am usually inebriated >from testing my freshly made wine! I was arested on Canal >Street by the police for collecting sperm samples from sewer >rats for my aging vats! >Maybe it's because I am so wealthy? The wine biz has been >really great this year, thanks to Updates and all that fuss on >the other side of the pond... and poverty, and drought, and >starvation... makes people wanna make babies and drink a lot. >Oh well. I suppose I should be happy that at least some of you >are happy. Enjoy yourelves. Maybe Fill Class will get arrested >pimping on 42nd Street. Wow. That'll make you guys look even >better. >Won't do a thing for your opinions about God, the Universe and >Everything though. But ya can't have everything, can yous? It is wonderful, because both Ufology and the general public are protected from and knowledgeable about this drug-dealing criminal. You should not condone people like Burns. People like him love people like you! Tim.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: The Skeptical Believer From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 99 10:27:05 PDT Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:17:00 -0400 Subject: Re: The Skeptical Believer >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:59:14 -0400 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: The Skeptical Believer >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net> >>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: The Skeptical Believer >>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:50:02 -0500 Patient and gentle listfolk: >>One of the most famous series of photos was taken off the coast >>of Brazil - it shows an object like a flattened Saturn, a very >>definite saucerlike anomaly. It sounded good at first and looks >>good too - there were supposedly dozens of other witnesses besides >>the photographer, according to the Brazilian papers. >>Many years later a researcher did travel to the area and found >>some people who claimed to be among those witnesses - but by then >>the case was tainted by having become famous. What a truly vapid, self-serving argument. Of course, if this researcher had found persons who claimed to have been on board the ship and seen nothing, you can be absolutely positive that their testimony would be trumpeted as proof that the case and the photos were hoaxed. Give us a break. >>Brazil is permeated, quite literally permeated, with UFO >>mythology and alien invasion folklore. People there adore it. What is the difference between being merely permeated and "literally permeated"? Please let us know. This is a distinction I confess I have never heard before. And in this context, doesn't the argument border on the racist, implying that Brazilians are so crazy that their testimony on things like UFOs can be dismissed out of hand? A similarly bordering-on-racist argument was employed by Donald Menzel (whom our correspondent apparently is parroting on the Trindade photos) to trash the credibility of the nonwhite witnesses to the famous Boianai CE3 of June 1959. See the discussion in my UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Ed., p. 451. >>But the main reason to doubt this famous photo is simply that >>the photographer turned out to be someone who was well known for >>trick photography, including double exposures; and he was >>someone who'd been involved in faking UFO photos before. . >He's referring to the Brazilian Navy sighting with photographer >Baruna over Trindade Island. I gather that he hasn't really >studied this sighting, just parroted skeptical comments by >Menzel et al. Obviously. Menzel's account in two of his books, as those who know more about the case than does this Shirley person (who doesn't seem to know enough about the UFO phenomenon generally to merit anyone's serious attention, as far as I can see), contains several outright lies and a doctored quote. See UFOE#2, pp. 902-03. The claim that the photographer (Almiro Barauna) was a hoaxer is another Menzel invention, though with some assistance from the geniuses of Blue Book. The charge rests entirely on the fact that Barauna once wrote a debunking piece on how a much-publicized Brazilian saucer photograph was faked. In the four decades since the Trindade pictures were taken, no evidence has emerged to suggest they are bogus. It is simply dishonest to pretend otherwise. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 22 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:27:39 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:20:30 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 22 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 4, Number 22 September 22, 1999 Editor: Joseph Trainor V-SHAPED UFO WATCHED BY HUNDREDS IN MEXICO On Sunday, September 12, 1999, at 7 p.m., "a big V-shaped object appeared in the sky" over two supermarkets in the barrio Garza Garcia (district) of Monterrey in northern Mexico. Monterrey is a large industrial city in the state of Nuevo Leon, located 924 kilometers (574 miles) north of Mexico City. According to Mexican ufologist Santiago Yturria Garza, "The UFO was large in size and stationary in the sky at low altitude. It had an inverted V shape, with a certain device or sphere on the upper side. The sphere seemed to be emitting white light continuously." The OVNI (Spanish acronym for UFO-- J.T.) also "changed shape continuously from boomerang to triangle." At one point, the two arms of the "boomerang" separated "and seemd to rotate on its own axis." Hundreds of Mexicans stopped their cars to observe the object. Many witnesses telephoned local radio and TV stations. One witness, Sandra Gonzalez, phoned Canal (Channel) 12 in Monterrey and said, "Please film it. It's something extraordinary. We're seeing a UFO. It's like a saucer. All the people in the San Pedro Auditorium are in the parking lot watching it." At 7:30 p.m., TV news reporter Marta Zamarripa arrived in the district to film the event for the show TeleDiario, which appears on Canal 12. Sra. Zamarripa reported, "I saw the OVNI between 7:30 and 7:45 p.m. in Colonia del Valle. It was amazing to see that all the cars were stopping and the people were looking up and pointing up above." During the TeleDiario broadcast on Monday, September 13, 1999, five amateur videos of the UFO were aired. In addition, newsman Joel Sampayo reported, "A commercial airliner was also present at the sighting scene. A Boeing 737 was descending at about 10,000 feet (3,000 meters) while making its final approach into Aeropuerto Internacional Mario Escobedo" when the tower reportedly told the pilot "to be alert about something they may encounter along the landing route." However, a spokesman for the airport denied that any such radio call had been made by the Escobedo tower. (Gracias a Santiago Yturria Garza y OVNI Investigaciones de Mexico para esa historia.) UFOs SPOTTED TWICE IN WISCONSIN On Saturday, September 17, 1999, the Dunn County Sheriff's Department received a number of calls from the town of Menomonie, Wisconsin (population 13,547), complaining about "unusual bright lights" in the sky. A Dunn County deputy arrived in the town a short while later and also reported "unidentified lights" to the dispatcher. Menomonie is on Wisconsin Highway 29 approximately 186 miles (297 kilometers) northwest of Madison, the state capital. (See the Eau Claire, Wis. Leader-Telegram for September 19, 1999. Many thanks to Richard Hendricks for this news story.) On Friday, August 13, 1999, at 11 p.m., a young couple, Erin and Mike, were driving on Interstate Highway 90/94 near The Dells, a unique geologic area and popular Wisconsin tourist attraction, when they noticed some strange lights in the sky. "Erin and I were traveling west on I-90/94... about 10 miles west of The Dells" when "I began noticing three lights rotating in an oval-shape pattern on some clouds to the right (north) of the highway. At first I thought it was just headlights from oncoming traffic on the windshield. So I asked my gal to roll her window down and to tell me what she saw at the base of those clouds." Neither Erin nor Mike could find the source of those mysterious sky lights on the darkened ground. For a while, they thought it might be a nighttime laser light show at The Dells, but then they weren't so sure. "Then it got really weird," Mike added, "What appeared to be laser beams or long, thin green light rays began shooting outward from above the clouds and were giving the clouds a greenish glow every time the rays would shoot out." "All of the rays came from the area of the original rotating lights, with the exception of a couple that came from some clouds over the highway.in front of us." The nearest town to the sighting area is Wisconsin Dells, Wis. (population 2,393) in Sauk County, approximately 45 miles (72 kilometers) north of Madison. (Many thanks to Rev. Billy Dee and UFOSSI for this report.) THREE UFOs SIGHTED NEAR MUNISING, MICHIGAN On Tuesday, August 10, 1999, at 10:30 p.m., Kevin A. and two friends from Auburn, Michigan were camped out at Hovey Lake in the Hiawatha National Forest on Michigan's Upper Peninsula when they sighted a UFO. Hovey Lake is near Munising, Michigan (population 2,783), a port town on the south shore of Lake Superior approximately 116 miles (185 kilometers) west of Sault Sainte Marie, Michigan. Kevin reported, "The object was traveling from northeast to southwest and would randomly flash very brightly, then fade out, then start to glow brightly again while increasing speed, as if it were entering or re-entering the atmosphere. It looked like a star, but when it started to glow, it had an orange tint to it. The object or UFO or whatever you want to call it changed direction simultaneously." At 5:30 a.m., on Wednesday, August 11, 1999, the trio "took off for the beach. We had been lying on the beach for about an hour when our friend (the UFO) appeared from the east. At this point, the sun was just under the horizon." The UFO "hovered directly over us high in the sky and then it seemd to 'play around.' The object was zigzagging around and doing crazy loops, as if the pilot didn't know how to fly the damn thing." "While this particular craft was fooling around, two more crafts came out of the north (from Lake Superior--J.T.) and got into a triangle formation with the other one. The triangular formation seemed to be large because they were so high up there. I'd say a few miles apart. And it almost seemed as if they were waiting for something. Weird!" "I brought my View Cam along and actually picked up one of the objects," Kevin added. ""Although I don't even know how I got it because it didn't show up on my (camcorder's) three-inch screen. Not until later did I realize this when I put the tape in the VCR." (Many thanks to Linda H. for forwarding this report.) LARGE DAYLIGHT SAUCER SEEN IN OZARK, MISSOURI On Monday, August 23, 1999, at 2:15 p.m., the eyewitness, Douglas, was "sitting in my office at my residence, using the Internet and listening to the police scanner. The Christian County Sheriff's Department office dispatcher started having problems with all of the (police) patrols out in the field." Then Douglas heard a strange humming sound on frequency 155.565, the local police radio band. "I could hear the humming sound that was affecting the radios, and I could hear the humming in my office. I thought we'd just had a power surge that had affected the town of Ozark." Ozark, Missouri (population 4,243) is on Highway 14 about seven miles (11 kilometers) southeast of Springfield. "About five minutes had passed, and I was still hearing the humming, and the dispatcher was getting frantic...so I finally walked outside my residence. Looking to the west, I saw nothing. The sky was mostly clear but with a little overcast. As I walked down my front porch, I noticed a silver-gray disk directly above my residence towards the southeast. It was approximately 100 yards (90 meters) long and 15 feet high. It was tilted at about 25 degrees towards the earth. The humming continued constantly. The disk had a blue, then white, then red light coming from the bottom, moving in a perfect circle." "It then moved directly from the southeast to the northwest of my location, along the Finley River that runs through town and disappeared straight upwards." (Many thanks to Linda H. for this report.) (Editor's Note: This is the sixth report of a UFO in Ozark, Missouri since UFO Roundup began publication in February 1996. That town is definitely the home port for UFOs in Missouri.) WOMAN SEES A UFO IN DANDRIDGE, TENNESSEE Tennessee's UFO flap entered its second week with a sighting reported in the mountain town of Dandridge (population 1,540). Elizabeth G., 19, "was going east on Highway 25/70" when "my attention was drawn to a bright light in the upper right hand side of my (field of) vision. I also noticed a larger orangish light about three inches to the lower left" of the bright light. "I wasn't sure if it was moving at first, but, as I slowed down to get a better look, it sped up. It was moving to the left at the same speed an airplane would. I pulled over to make sure it was a blinking light or an airplane, but it wasn't." "I pulled over into a gravel lot and rolled down my window. As I began watching it again, two lights broke away--in opposite directions.. One was red, the other was blue. The object was about the size of a dime (at arm's length--J.T.) Then it shot off in another direction." "I wasn't the only one who saw it. I passed three other parked cars as I pulled over." Dandridge is located 23 miles (36 kilometers) east of Knoxville, Tennessee. (Email Interview) (Editor's Note: Elizabeth had a previous UFO sighting on September 7, 1998 near White Pine, Tennessee.) SPORTSFISHERMEN SEE UFO IN PANAMA On Sunday, September 5, 1999, at 5:20 a.m., Stanley W. and his four fishing buddies were standing on the beach in Pedasi, Panama, "waiting for the boatman to bring the boat back to the beach for a fishing trip. We observed a light in the sky due east at about 5 to 10 degrees above the horizon. It looked like a spotlight in the sky. It would disappear as the cloud moved over it from right to left (east to west--J.T.) Then it suddenly moved from left to right and did it again horizontally several times. Just before the sun came up, it disappeared." (Many thanks to Linda R. of Texas for forwarding this report.) METALLIC SPHERE UFO SIGHTED IN SOUTH WALES There appears no end in sight to the current UFO flap in the Gwent region of Wales. The latest sighting occurred on Friday, September 3, 1999, at 12:05 p.m. when "a very large, shiny, metallic, cigar-shaped object was. seen. The object was observed over the (Motorway) A465, Head of the Valley Road, while the witness was travelling from Brynmawr to Ebbw Vale. The object was said to be stationary in the sky at approximately 2,000 feet above the Ebbw Vale roundabout (rotary in the USA--J.T.)" Ebbw Vale is about 45 miles (72 kilometers) north of Cardiff. The flap began on Sunday, July 17, 1999, at 4 p.m., when a woman from Ebbw Vale and two members of her family "saw a metallic sphere while travelling from Aberbeeg towards Cum," and watched the object for 15 minutes. The UFO 'was described as a metallic sphere. It was observed for 15 minutes" and "was stationary despite strong winds. A thin layer of cloud passed behind the object, and it was shortly after enveloped by thick cloud...the object did not reappear that day." After a story about the sighting appeared in the Gazette, another witness came forward and said he had seen the UFO on Saturday, July 16, 1999, "over Sugarloaf Mountain in Abergavenny," near Ebbw Vale. Investigating the flurry of sightings is the South Wales UFO Research Network (SWUFORN). (Many thanks to Paul McCart and SWUFORN for these reports.) CROP CIRCLES POP UP IN SASKATCHEWAN Two more formations of crop circles were reported in Canada's Saskatchewan province last week. On Saturday, August 14, 1999, two crop circles appeared on a farm in Midale, Sask. (population 497). Amazingly, Midale was the site of three crop circle formations last year. (See UFO Roundup, Volume 3, Number 36 for September 6, 1998.) The new Midale formation was described as "a grouping of two simple circles, another circle with a surrounding ring similar to a (Native American) 'medicine wheel,' with curved pathways crossing through it, in the same wheat field" as the 1998 formation. "The farmer reported no damage to the crop, with all the formations perfectly flattened down to the ground, with no sign of entry pathways. (See the Regina, Sask. Leader-Post for August 15, 1999.) Midale is on Provincial Highway 39 about 98 miles (157 kilometers) southeast of Regina. On Sunday, September 19, 1999, during the morning, "a formation of six circles was reported near Weyburn, Sask. (population 9,673)," north of Midale. "The circles are in a hay field in a more or less random pattern. Four are close together, and the other two are 100 feet (30 meters) farther west from these. Five are smaller, about 25 feet (7.5 meters) in diameter each, and the larger one is about 35 feet (10.6 meters) to 40 feet (12.12 meters) diameter. Each (circle) is a ring about 2 feet in width, and the grass in the ring areas themselves is much greener in colour than the surrounding grass in the field." Weyburn is on Provincial Highway 13 about 70 miles (112 kilometers) southeast of Regina. (Many thanks to Paul Anderson of Circles Phenomenon Research-Canada for these reports.) Y2K: WISCONSIN READIES STATE COMMAND POST "State officials don't expect any serious Y2K computer problems, but they plan to set up shop at National Guard headquarters on New Year's Eve just in case." "They will gather at the emergency operations center at the Department of Military Affairs in Madison," the state capital. "Officials said they want to be in one place to help release consistent information to the public." (See USA Today for September 20, 1999, "Wisconsin.") In addition to the state-by-state preparations, the U.S. government is going ahead with more "urban warfare" training exercises. "The Marines plan three urban warfare exercises" during the period from November 8 to November 17, 1999 in the city of Columbia, South Carolina (population 98,052) "as part of their real-world training. The unit will bring about 400 Marines to Columbia for the exercise. The Marines will coordinate with local police and fire department officials on each of the exercises, officials said." (See USA Today for September 21, 1999, "South Carolina.") (Editor's Comment: Fort Jackson, S.C., located just east of Columbia, will probably be the springboard for the exercises.) from the UFO Files... 1977: THE HUDSON SAILS AGAIN! Last week's issue told how the S.S. Hudson foundered in a gale on Lake Superior, just west of Eagle Harbor on Michigan's Keweenaw peninsula, on September 16, 1901. All twenty-four crewmen aboard were killed. On September 16, 1948, the long-sunken Hudson was seen afloat and adrift on Lake Superior by a tugboat fisherman from Eagle Harbor. But this wasn't the only appearance of the Hudson. On September 16, 1977, a couple we'll call "Dave and Brenda Peterson" left Duluth Minnesota on a warm and sunny morning, heading for the small city of Two Harbors, 25 miles (40 kilometers) to the northeast. Instead of driving on U.S. Highway 61 to Duluth, Dave and Brenda opted to take "Old Highway 61," now known as the North Shore Scenic Drive, up along the shore, where "wide sweeping vistas of Lake Superior are common." "Near the mouth of the Lester River," at the Duluth city limits, Dave and Brenda "spotted a freighter running close in and parallel to the shore. Black smoke curled up from the stacks, and a white mustache hung off her bow as it plowed majestically towards Duluth." What a strange sight the vessel was, an old steamer about 320 feet long with a wooden pilothouse forward and two distinctive black smokestacks aft. "Having grown up on the (Great) lakes, both noticed two things." "First, it was far closer to shore than normal, and, second, it was an old-style vessel." "Wanting to get a closer look at the unusual ship, the husband drove several more miles until he came to a place where he could safely turn off the narrow road and still see the lake." "But when they looked again for the ship, it was gone. The lake was absolutely clear, without even a hint of fog, smoke or mist. From horizon to the rocky shore, nothing but water could be seen." The Petersons kept their encounter to themselves for many years. However, on November 11, 1995, they appeared on a local TV program, Gales of November, and told their unusual tale. Their description of the vessel matches a 1901 photograph of the Hudson. (See the book Haunted Lakes by Frederick Stonehouse, Lake Superior Port Cities, Inc., Duluth, Minn., 1997, pages 110 and 111.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us next week for more UFO news from around the planet, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." Have an enjoyable week. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1999 by Masinaigan Proiductions, all rights reserved. Readers may post UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of the issue in which the item first appeared. http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: royjhale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 05:23:47 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:23:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:57:54 +0100 > Hi, >I suspect Andy is commenting from two perspectives. His personal >judgement of the conflicting evidence and having had the >opportunity - which the rest of you will also have soon - of >being able to read my (half a book long) reappraisal of the >case. This was recently written to take account of all the >evidence that has appeared in the past two years (pretty well >rendering my l998 book already out of date). So I took the >chance to give this case a thorough going over. Hi Jenny & All, I think the point being about this case, is as Jenny said in her own words "but at its heart there remains an incident where something appears to have provoked an intriguing close encounter". It is this incident which has seen to eluded a lot of people. The question being asked again and again: What was the object that landed at Rendlesham? Now I clearly remember Jenny telling the UK, on the Strange But True UFO special programme, that she believed it was nothing more than a Russian object of some kind and I think the word Nuclear was mentioned? Now what is the current assessment of the incident? Is Jenny now saying that she can quite easily wipe out the theory put forward by some, that is of an object descending from the skies above Rendlesham and to be seemingly under some kind of Intelligent control, so much so that it attracted the attention of those on the base ? Does the evidence still stand up after all these years? And I for one don't think this ws a crash of any kind. Regards, Roy.. Keep Smiling!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: RPIT - A Reminder [was... Re: The Challenge] From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:21:19 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:44:37 -0400 Subject: Re: RPIT - A Reminder [was... Re: The Challenge] >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:48:43 -0700 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Lynne Bishop <lynnebishop@softhome.net> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:09:42 EDT >>Subject: Re: The Challenge >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:28:51 -0700> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Lynne Bishop <lynnebishop@softhome.net> >>Subject: Re: The Challenge The only unimpeachable solid evidence yet identified regarding the Roswell Event, the photographs taken on July 8, 1947, in the Headquarters, 8th Air Force offices of General Roger Ramey at Fort Worth, Texas, have been studied diligently now for more than a year by the international volunteer RPIT (Roswell Photo Interpretation Team) reinforced. This revisitation of these photos of the alleged Roswell crash debris utilizing modern computer photo techniques has been conducted entirely in the "Sunshine" -- meaning results have been posted on the web individually by RPIT members as discovered and analyzed. All these reports are posted at web pages linked to my 'James Bond Johnson' unofficial link page at: http://www.ufomind.com/people/j/johnsonj/ and 'The Fort Worth Pictures taken by James Bond Johnson' at: http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/index.htm Serious comments and suggestions from any ufologists have been and continue to be invited. The first annual report of the work of RPIT also will be posted to the web shortly.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:34:10 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:49:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:32:57 +0100 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:40:12 EDT >>Subject: Re: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:50:30 -0400 >>>From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> >>>Subject: Ufology Fiddles Whilst Max Burns >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>The title of which is a sad commentary, at least to me, on those >>of who take such pleasure in the misery and mistakes of others, >>especially when those others come counter to "us," whomever "us" >>are. >>Personally, I don't like to hear or read about whether or not >>Max burns or Jaime Gesundt fries. Having heard the news ONCE >>that the man was arrested is sufficient. But frankly, it seems >>to me that people appear too felicitous over this person's >>misfortune, even if self inflicted, even if legitimate. That's >>the sad part. To me, at least. ><snip> >It is wonderful, because both Ufology and the general public are >protected from and knowledgeable about this drug-dealing >criminal. >You should not condone people like Burns. People like him love >people like you! Hi Tim, et al; Do not misunderstand. I do not condone people like Burns. But neither do I condone those who revel in the misfortune of people like Burns. It seemed to me that everyone was way too happy over this guy's arrest. These days, one never knows who the bad guys really are, eh? Too much mistrust on all sides. Until this sorts out, until people understand who their real enemies are, we should keep not only an open mind, but an open heart. I've seen too much misery over drugs, violence and hurt in my life, to want to see more of it. Even in the social graces, in science and research. Quite frankly, Tim, it stinks for people to react in this manner. I can see righteous indignation, anger, but there is no vindication in the misery of one's enemy, or one who disagrees with us. Illigitimum non carborundum, est. Remember John Ford, Hurricaine Rubin Carter, J. Jaime Gesundt? Love, Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:48:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:57:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 99 10:46:07 PDT >>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:17:30 -0500 >>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT >>>Jerome Clark can continue to say that he has all the respect in >>>the world for your intelligence, your knowledge and your >>>ability. But if he's talking about this in relation to ufology, >>>he does not know what he is talking about. This is why I am >>>going to add Jerome Clark's name to the list of "The Old Boy's >>>Club." This is a clique where nothing derogatory is said about >>>another member, no matter how badly their cases are investigated >>>or what ridiculous statements they make. They simply do not >>>speak ill of one another, and these are: Stanton Friedman, Budd >>>Hopkins, Bruce Maccabee, Walt Andrus, and now Jerome Clark. >>Its a matter of survival. In the Press Corps, if you come out >>and say something the President does not like, it could be >>totally true, but not liked, then you are out on your ear. No >>more White House assignments... thats the kiss of death. The >>same holds true for the Good Ole Boys in the UFO community. Its >>very important to not say anything bad (but true) about anyone >>else in the club because it might put you on the outside and >>that might mean not getting some morsel of "valuable" info... >>"left out of the loop" so to speak. >What a load of malicious crap. I have no idea who Terry Evans >is, but that doesn't stop the mindless reputation - trashing, >obviously. Evidence, logic, reason, or a sense of proportion >never stops this sort of thing, sad to say. >Evans doesn't explain to us exactly what horrendous consequences >will ensue if I "say something (Bruce Maccabee) doesn't like." >I can tell him: none whatever. Unlike Evans and unlike Jerry >Black, Bruce -- with whom I have disagreed on occasion, though >generally he and I have the same outlook on the UFO phenomenon >-- is a gentleman. He understands that honorable human beings, >including honorable ufologists, will disagree from time to time. >To all appearances, however, Evans and Black assume that >disagreement with them is all the evidence they need of the >dissenter's venality. No wonder ufological discourse has become >so warped. What exactly was malicious about what I said? Its an observation. I'm 55 years old, I've been interested in UFOs for a very long time. I've watched and heard the bickering. I've seen the backbiting. I see the cliques. And I stand by what I said. BTW: How about providing all of us with a list of articles by you, or anyone affiliated with CUFOS which came out against Gulf Breeze and Mr. Walters and Dr. Maccabee. I know I have read a few, but I would like to read everything that CUFOS said. You can do that, can't you? Whether or not Dr. Maccabee is a gentleman is of no concern to me. I totally agree with you... there should be disagreement. There should be debate. That's the point. CUFOS was a wimp when it came to criticizing Dr. Maccabee and Hopkins and Andrus. You (CUFOS) were simply unwilling to get involved and investigate the case. You (CUFOS) sent Randle and Schmitt to New Mexico and backed (financially) the Roswell investigation, but you wouldn't put any effort into Gulf Breeze? Why? Because it was the baby of Dr. M. (wasn't he the head of Fund for a while?) and to find out that he might be lying (ooops) was something you just didn't want to deal with. Better to say as little as possible and hope it goes away. Don't ask, don't tell. Terry Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:17:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:03:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:11:54 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:27:10 -0400 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >>Thank you for your kind offer but, to be frank >>with you I think MUFON is a joke. I have way >>too many problems with it as an organization and >>as any kind of reliable investigative tool. >>I'll wait till I get an offer from a more academic >>source. Independant video/photographic experts with >>no agenda or stake in the outcome. >>Again, thank you for your generous offer but I'd >>rather turn the case over to the "Marx Brothers" >>before I'd ever get involved with MUFON!" >Hi, John! >I can understand your concerns with MUFON. >However, as former Assistant State Director for >Connecticut, and now State Director for Connecticut, >I ask that you realize that MUFON is not a monolithic >organization but rather a loose confederation of state >organizations with widely varying standards. There's >no question that some parts of the organization are as >bad as it gets and that other parts are much better. I >hope MUFON CT has started to be and will continue >to improve into one of the better parts of MUFON. >There are other chapters which also do good work or >have good investigators. >In any event, I ask that rather than issue a blanket >condemnation of MUFON that you first investigate the >investigators. If the people who asked to investigate your >sighting are as you fear, you have every right to deny >them access to your material. They should be willing to >show you case reports, and if those investigations are not >up to your standard, then you know they will not perform >a suitable investigation. On the other hand, perhaps they >will be better than that, and you will have another set of >minds to work on your sighting. Hi Mark, First, congrats on your appointment as Conneticut State Director! I hope MUFON realizes how lucky they are to have you. As you know, I have a ton of respect for you personally and for the work you do. If they had made you the _NY_State_ Director I'd be sitting face to face with you discussing the sighting I recently reported. I know you Mark. More importantly I am familiar with your serious, no nonsense approach to investigations or presentations of materials related to 'UFO' or abduction cases. I'm in New York, but as long as I know it is you doing the investigation I am willing to turn over to you whatever materials I have (film/video) and to provide you with whatever info I can to help you assess it. *See the difference in response when the "right offer" to have the material investigated comes along! You ain't the "Marx Bros.!" Far from it. Let me know, Mark. Whatever I have is yours for the asking. The best part of it is, that I can rest assured that it will get an honest, thorough investigation, and that any results will not include any sensationalistic language or references. Let me know amigo. As far as I'm concerned dealing with MUFON is one thing. Dealing with _you_ is another! They should have had you ask me originally and all this verbal boochie-boo about MUFON could have been avoided. :) Regards, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: The Challenge From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:20:44 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:06:05 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:41:15 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >Errol, John, Kevin, and Listfolk >As much as I admire John for his tenacity, strength of character >and sheer bloody-mindedness I think he was wrong to cut Kevin >short the way that he did. I will continue to read both peoples >input on this list, I can always "hit the delete" if I don't >like the posting, and I do when I do! >I have investigated the abduction phenomena as much as I can in >the UK because we do not have the sheer number that you do in >the states, that is thankfully we don't. I have absolutely no >bias either way, _but_ I will look at both sides of the >argument. Sleep disorders, astral projection, whatever, versus >actual abduction, I have an open mind. That is all anyone can >truly ask in my opinion. >I have not yet met face-to-face someone who I _believe_ has been >abducted, but that does not stop me _knowing_ that some people >believe that they have been abducted. >I would not wish abduction on anyone, not even Phil Klass! Dear Errol, Sean, John, John Boy, List and... uh, whomever; I am of the opinion (not that anyone should give a holy moly) that there are at least two important groups of people in this crazy world. The first are those who keep an open mind. I adore you people, because you have the Motts. The second group I appreciate are the inebriants. For they test the Gripple. But there is one group I cannot support, and will, until the end of my life (which should be soon, as I am aging rapidly) _never_ support or suffer... these are the culpably iggerent. And Sean, when you said, and I quote: >I would not wish abduction on anyone, not even Phil Klass! I had to throw up. I mean, you could have said, "Gesunt's brother in law!" But you said ... Fill Class. I do hereby dissolve and remove your honorary Ph.D. from this Class. Gesundt
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:35:12 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:56:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:56:20 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:24:32 -0500 >>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET> >>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:53:36 -0400 >>>I fully agree with what you wrote. I also don't "believe" that >>>Ed faked those photos. Many other folks have also seen the Gulf >>>Breeze UFOs, in one shape or another. It is so easy to attack >>>one witness, instead of confronting a large group of people. I >>>think these guys who like to re-hash good cases, trying to find >>>ridiculous explanations for them, are chicken. We, as >>>researchers, must remember to remind the public that UFO >>>witnesses and/or "believers" far outnumber the >>>"non-witnesses/believers" by 1� to 1. And the numbers keep >>>growing each time someone (who was previously skeptical) reports >>>their first sighting. These debunkers don't stand a chance >>>against that. >This seems to be a re-working of Stanton Friedman's technique of >research by referendum - if a majority believe it, it must be >so. On that basis we must admire the Inquisition's >scientifically-based opposition to that noted sceptical debunker >Galileo! I was heading out the door to California but must comment. This is absolute nonsense. I have never suggested that truth is determined by how many people agree. I have indeed pointed out to those noisey negativists who indeed take this approach and who proclaim that most people don't believe in UFOs and that certainly scientists don't, that the facts, as opposed to the proclamations, show the reverse. That certainly doesn't mean that because most believe anything it is true. That is why I focus on large scale scientific studies. Pity John can't be bothered with those. Why he is projecting on me the approach of the debunkers I have no idea. My books and papers, videos and CD-ROM make this absolutely clear. Facts come first rather than silly claims like this one. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:34:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:59:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 99 22:33:51 PDT >>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:14:35 -0500 >>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:31:54 -0600 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> >>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:43:56 -0400 >>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>>>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>>>>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>>>>Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>>>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT >Patient and gentle listfolk: >>And speaking of jokes. I recently read an article by a woman who >>was on the staff of the newspaper down there when it was all >>going on. She claims that she and another woman knew Walters and >>the editor... what was his name?... were pulling a hoax and she >>claimed that she was told by the editor to make sightings of >>non-UFOs into UFOs to keep the hysteria going. >Now, let me get this straight. Isn't Evans the same guy who was >just trashing somebody for taking "anecdotal evidence" >seriously? I guess one standard applies to him, another to >everybody with whom he disagrees. The above doesn't even rise >to "anecdotal evidence." "Unverified rumor" is a lot closer. >But hey, if you're trashing somebody, unverified rumors will do. >Jerry Clark Her name is Kimberly Blair. The articles are in the Pennsacola Independent Weekly. July 8, 1999. Vol.1, No.2. Its quite a lengthy article. 6 pages. Briefly she says that shortly after Walters claims of seeing UFOs she joined the paper. She was open to the possibility of ET life. A colleagues of hers, Diane Hansen (no relation to Walters aka Hanson) had been writing about the UFOs in Gulf Breeze but had stopped writing about them because she thought they were hoaxed. "When she spoke out, she got harassing, even threatening, phone calls. So fearing for her safety and her children's, she went silent." Blair goes on to say that soon she began to question Walters and Cooks involvement. "I could not chase away the nagging question, how was it possible for a UFO the size and proportion Walters claimed to drop from the sky and hover over his house without dozens if not hundreds of even thousands of people seeing it? Our geography - surrounded on water on three sides, bordered by two bridges that give drivers a bird's eye view of Gulf Breeze makes that impossible." She goes on to say that she was directed by Cook to write whatever came in without authenticating any of it. Everything she had learned about reporting was being tossed out the window... "and we became a propaganda machine for Walters' story and the book he later published. The paper played a big role in perpetuating the illusion." She talked to more people and found out about Walters' "knack for hoaxes". She brought this up at the paper, but was disregarded. "It became clear that there was no newspaper investigation, or any real desire, to reveal the truth of what was happening in Gulf Breeze." "One of the most significant clues was in Walters himself. Here was a man who said he was being stalked by aliens who were trying to suck him up in a blue beam. Yet nearly everyday he be-bopped into he Sentinel with a smile like a Cheshire Cat's as he headed for Cook's office." She goes on to say that her desk was close to Cooks office and she often heard them laughing. "Never did I pick up fear or concern. Walters behavior raised the bar on my suspicions - especially when so many people were gripped by the fear of his claims, everyone except Walters that is." She ends the article recounting a night when she was sent out to sky watch with people who claimed they were seeing Ed UFO. She was excited and waited with anticipation. It turned out that what these people were watching, night after night, were planets. She was very disappointed. "The next morning I reported my findings to Cook. I laughed as I told him that I could not believe that the group thought the planets were UFOs. I remember the look on his face and the tone he used... he leaned forward in his desk chair, stared me in the eyes and said firmly, "Write it up as a UFO report". "I was stunned! Confusion and realization washed over me on the way to my desk. I sat down and re-thought the conversation. Did I not make myself clear? Confusion gave way to relief. Now I knew... this was all a scam and the paper was playing along." She ends by saying that this was the worst moment in her career as a journalist. She wrote the story the way Cook wanted it written to keep her job, but she had to compromise her ethics. And, as she says, if she had written the truth, Cook could still change it when it left her hands. Damned either way. End. No doubt these are some of the reports Dr. Maccabees uses in his statistics for sightings in Gulf Breeze. Is this enough for you? Terry Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:44:53 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:27:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:29:59 +1000 >From: Glennys Mackay <glenmack@thehub.com.au> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:16:28 -0300 <snip> >>I believe that the sightings in question which were "explained" >>as a squid boat fishing fleet took place Dec. 21, 1978 and >>thereafter and were investigated in detail by Dr. Bruce Maccabee >>who went down under and talked to all the aircraft and radar >>witnesses and published in Applied Optics 18 (1979); 2527-28 and >>the Journal of Scientific Exploration 1.2 (1987) 149-190. >>Jerome Clark's excellent The UFO Book has a good summary with >>references (there are books) on pp415-418. >That was something that Robert Muldoon, Who was the Prime >Minister at that time "claimed", that the sightings were the >reflection of squid boats fishing off the coast of NZ?!! >How the hell can they be spot lights in the damn sky when >they are surposed to be using them for finding the fish?? >Were they flying fishes? :) <snip> >I have done a lot of home work at ground level with those >involved, I had 5 helicoptor pilots staying with me at the time >around 1978 and 1979 we used to sit and watch these craft even >through binoculars. >So I do not know who your friend Bruce MacCabee spoke to, but he >certainly did not speak to the witnesses. <snip> Obviously I didn't make myself clear. I didn't say that Dr. Bruce Maccabee, an optical physicist, said the UFO sightings were squid boats Just the opposite. Bruce showed and published articles showing the UFOs were indeed _not_ squid boats. I cited the references. He talked to all the witnesses involved in this case. The questioner wanted to know about a particluar case. I noted which case it was. He should read Bruce's articles as I guess Glennys needs to. I think somebody owes me an apology. Bruce discusses the case in my 1979 movie "UFOs Are Real" as well as in print. Let's get with it. The question wasn't about all NZ sightings. Stan Friedman.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:27:46 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:16:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:49:54 +0000 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:50:38 -0400 >>From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> >>Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:44:18 +0100 >>>From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Hi Roy, Andy and all, >>>I didn't realize Rendlesham was now considered a "Non UFO Case"? >>>Who was responsible for the final nail in the coffin then? Only >>>I know there are possibly a few people on this list who think >>>Rendlesham was a major UFO case. >>I didn't actually say that Roy. It is a UFO case. However, there >>is no real evidence as some have claimed that a craft ET or >>military came down or crashed. >Of course there was no crash, this is the first time I have even >heard it suggested. Whatever happened at Rendlesham (alien or >whatever) came and left intact. >I do however remember someone (I can't think who at the moment) >putting forward the idea that the trained military personnel >involved mistook the local lighthouse for a UFO. If this were >the case then the military personnel involved were no more use >than a chocolate tea pot. Oh dear oh dear oh dear. How many 'trained military personnel' have you come across? Just because you have a gun and can take orders means nothing and I'd have thought by now that this myth of the "trained observer" would have died given that it's been dealt with before. In the forces you're trained to do what you're told. Security guards are in no better position to judge the nature or identity of a supposed 'unknown' than the infamous 'man taking his dogs for a walk' who sees 'something unusual'. Given my knowledge of both Army and Air Force - lived on bases when younger etc. whole family in RAF etc. - I can honestly say that there is no special training for personnel regarding 'what's up there'. Given the over one hundred years of family experience in RAF matters, some at a very high level, how come none of them heard about UFOs and cover-ups? Under these circumstances it is not a surprise for me to reveal that just last night a friend of mind on leave from the Army (Green jackets,) mistook various anomalous effects created by a huge thunderstorm off the North West coast as "UFO" activity. He wasn't alone. I spoke to our community Policeman late last night and several local people who claimed to have 'seen UFOs'. Last night's storm was incredible - an amazing sight; but no aliens or 'craft'...... Tim M.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Alleged CIA Dir. Meeting With Greer Under From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:53:16 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:21:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Alleged CIA Dir. Meeting With Greer Under >From: Stefan Duncan <swduncan@foto.infi.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, >Subject: Alleged CIA Dir. Meeting With Greer Under Question >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 05:39:29 -0400 >Several days ago, I wrote an editorial challenging the UFO/alien >claims by Greer, and how my interview with Greer was denied and >my free issues of AUFON were asked to be stopped. >Because I was unable to challenge or ask any questions on any of >the CSETI "news briefs" that were continued to be sent to AUFON, >I asked Tony Craddock to please stop sending me news updates by >CSETI. I got a simple, "You are unsubscribed" response. Then, I >get this, "By way of Tony Craddock," a defensive response to yet >another challenged aspect of Greer's claims. An alleged meeting >with a past CIA Director, of which Greer in all of his radio >interviews heavily refers to as a one on one three hour meeting >with the director specifically with enlightening the Dir. of the >UFO evidence is now being questioned. Statements are being made >by those who attended the alleged meeting are saying it was only >a dinner party. >Greer is now saying that the underworld powers to be are causing >these denials of the meeting to come to light. A secret >government agency whose sole purpose seems to discredit Greer. I >guess after a few more editorials challenging Greer, he will be >announcing that I too am part of a secret government wing set >out to expose his claims as false. <snip> My personal view is that very few, if any, of Greer's claims should be taken seriously especially as he runs what is pretty much a "cult" group. Furthermore, I have yet to come across decent evidence of a 'liaison' between aliens and the US government - or any government for that matter. These X-Files plot-a-likes are so far removed from the actual UFO research we all do from day to day that I can only conclude that the series has had too much influence..... There is, so often, confusion between the possibility of 'life out there' - something that we, and science, take alot more seriously these days - and 'UFO' sightings. Who says the two are linked? Not me for starters..... I'm sure Dr. Greer is an excellent medical practitioner. I'm just horrified by some of the things he says about UFOs - I too receive Mr Craddock's messages - and the paranoia that appears to lie at the heart of his belief system. Tim Matthews - Editor, BEYOND magazine. (No doubt also part of some conspiracy.....) ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:34:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:37:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 02:34:41 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 <snip> >>I also got 5 photographs that were taken with a telephoto lens >>of fixed focal length. (500mm at f/11 using 400 ASA 35mm >>color Kodak film. The camera body was an old Pentax 35mm >>SLR) >>When I shot the photos the object had moved away from its >>stationary position, (directly overhead) and I also got several >>nearby TV antenna tines into the pix.> >>If you have any film left on the roll shoot a picture of an >>object of known size at known distance, say a 3 ft ruler at 30 >>>ft using the same camera and lens. This will calibrate the >>anglular size of objects. Can't calculate actual size unless >>actual distance is known. But, with the information on known >>size at known distance can provide a range of possible sizes for >>a range of possible distances. >Will do. It's a 36 exposure roll and I've only used about 5 or 6 >frames so there's plenty of room for a few shots of a ruler. >Whatever settings I used are still set up on the lens and >camera. I won't alter a thing. (Except focus of course!) Thanx >for the help and advice Bruce. It's nice to have the guidance >and input of someone who knows what they're doing for a change! Since you were using a 500 mm focal length lens you may have to have the yardstick quite a distance away to allow it to appear, end to end, in the frame. Be sure you have an accurate measure of the distance to the yardstick. John, if you don't mind being the "guinea pig" for this investigation, I would like to point out to onlooklers, kibitzers, skeptics, etc., that this is the procedure I always follow for UFO analysis. The witness has to be cooperative and do experiments which I can't do because I don't have the camera. (In some cases, e.g. Gulf Breeze, I do get access to the camera and carry out these experiments myself.) Also, John, I would appreciate it if you could post the mos complete description of the sighting (sighting history) that you can). Include what you were doing before and after, how you happened to see, how long it took you to decide to video, tme to get video and start, time to get camera and photograph, angles of elevation during the sighting, angles of azimuth during the sighting, direction to the antenna elements ("tines" of the antenna) which you say appears in the pictures, time of day, location, etc (you may have done this piecemeal already; let's get it all in one place), weather (sky condition). For the edification of all concerned we can push this to the "limit" to see what turns up. Unfortunately there was no triangulation (as happened severakl times in Gulf Breeze) so I do not expect to be able to calculate an actual size, but rather a range of sizes based on a range of assumed distances. This is similar to the situation with the Ticonderoga, NY video sighting of July 2, 1998, published in the January 1999 issue of the MUFON Journal (double UFO traveled so sighting line passed by a church steeple, thereby providing direction calibration; object was at or above cloud level.) Now, John, be patient with me. Do the same optical test with your video camera and zoom from minimum to maximum and hold at maximum for at least a few seconds while focused on the yardstick at some (large) number of feet to that the yardstick fits into the field of view. Be sure the ends of the wardstick are clearly visible (can be held at the center) against whatever the backgroud happens to be. Also, with both cameras, as a test of optical resolution photograph a golf ball in the sun, a tennis ball in the sun and a baseball in the sun, ideally at about 3:45 PM. These can all appear in the same test photo and the same video. Ideally the angular size of the tennis ball would appear about the same size as that of the UFO in the video. I don't know what that angular size is, yet, so I can't tell you how far away to place it or all three spheres. Perhaps at the same distance as the yardstick? Anyway, the attempt here is to produce "pseudo UFOs" for comparison with the "real thing". This allows me to take into account optical distortion effects if any, since I know what the test spheres look like. (You could even video and photo tem up close so no one doubts what you are using). It might also be advisable to include a spherical white balloon, since the surface is nice and shiny, and since the skeptical position will be that you photographed a rare "mobile balloon" (or perhaps the wind just started up). If at all possible when doing the sphere photgraphy/ videography you should be looking toward these spheres along a sighting lie which is parallel to the azimuth of the sighting line when you shot the UFO and at the same time of day. Naturally they should all be illuminated by direct sunlight (assuming the UFO was so illuminated). Since (I presume) you know where you were standing when you shot the UFO you can use a compass to get the sighting direction to within a couple of degrees accuracy (good enough). the objective is to recreate the event with known objects as well as possible to see how the camera/ video reproduce what we know is real. Then we can use this information to better understand what the camera/video did when reproducing that which isn't 'real'. Now please be warned: by being so bold and brash as to publish your sighting and request analysis you have made yourself "guilty by photography" (phrase coined by Ed Walters). :) You will be tried in a public court with cyber-tomatoes being thrown by skeptics until we get this sighting _explained_! Rules To Avoid Being Attacked By Skeptics: UFOs don't exist so, if you see one, A) Don't Look B) If you looked (bad boy!) don't photograph C) If you (gulp) photographed, don't video D) If you (horrors) did look, video and photo Don't Tell _Anyone_! :)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:35:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:43:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:29:59 +1000 >From: Glennys Mackay <glenmack@thehub.com.au> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Information Wanted On New Zealand Sighting >>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:16:28 -0300 Stan wrote: >>I believe that the sightings in question which were "explained" >>as a squid boat fishing fleet took place Dec. 21, 1978 and >>thereafter and were investigated in detail by Dr. Bruce Maccabee >>who went down under and talked to all the aircraft and radar >>witnesses and published in Applied Optics 18 (1979); 2527-28 and >>the Journal of Scientific Exploration 1.2 (1987) 149-190. >>Jerome Clark's excellent The UFO Book has a good summary with >>references (there are books) on pp415-418.> >>Stan Friedman Glennys Mackay wrote: >Dear Stan, >That was something that Robert Muldoon, Who was the Prime >Minister at that time "claimed", that the sightings were the >reflection of squid boats fishing off the coast of NZ?!! >How the hell can they be spot lights in the damn sky when >they are surposed to be using them for finding the fish?? >Were they flying fishes? :) >Excause my French..... but this is a load of crap..... >I was there along with many 100's of other people who witnessed t>hese sightings and some were at low altitude. The one in the >paddock behind out house was not a figment of our imagination.or >the one that followed me home in April 1964 at approx. 50 feet >above my car.> >'Bull shit baffles brains', Stan..... and surely some times Stan >I just wonder where some of you are coming from. I think there is a misunderstanding here. Stan wrote "explained" in quotes.... the implication being that "explained" was a term used but had little or no connection with reality. >When I organised the UFO Symposiums here in Brisbane, Australia, >I sure to God had hoped to have some intelligient information >shared from the speakers to the Australians but I honestly >wonder where some of you guys are coming from? >And yes, I am hopping mad, when I read such un-intelligient >rubbish that hasd been written. >I have done a lot of home work at ground level with those >involved, I had 5 helicoptor pilots staying with me at the time >around 1978 and 1979 we used to sit and watch these craft even >through binoculars. >So I do not know who your friend Bruce MacCabee spoke to, but he >certainly did not speak to the witnesses. Actually I spoke to _all_ the witnesses of the December 31, 1978 sightings off the east coast of th South Island. I was the only investigator (or at least the first) to do that. I wrote and published the most complete investigations of that sighting. I was able to refute all explanations, including the squid boat explanation (which was bandied about at the time by the RNZAF after a RNZAF recon plane flew the same route a few days later and spotted the squid fleet over a hundred miles from the area of the sightings.) I did not investigate any other NZ sightings, nor have I commented on any other NZ sightings. You will find my work referenced in two books which should be on the self of every New Zealand ufologist, 'The Kaikoura UFOs' by pilot Bill Startup and 'Let's Hope They'Re Friendly' by TV reporter Quentin Fogarty.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Mars Orbiter Lost? - Exclusive Chat with Mars From: Diana Botsford <diana_botsford@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:35:44 PDT Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:44:55 -0400 Subject: Mars Orbiter Lost? - Exclusive Chat with Mars NASA's Mars Climate Orbiter is believed to be lost due to a suspected navigation error. Destination: Space invites you to an exclusive chat this evening (Thursday, Sept. 23, 1999) with Mars Scientist Jim Erjavec (co-author of "Case for the Face"). Join Erjavec to examine the possibilities behind this recent loss to the entire Mars Surveyor program. Can we get by with just the Mars Global Surveyor? And in light of the Orbiter following the Mars Observer into the abyss, do we want to continue our exploration of the red planet in this fashion? You decide. Join the chat at 6pm, PT -- 9pm ET. server: chat.solarcafe.com channel: #briefing We look forward to seeing you online. Diana Botsford Producer Destination: Space http://www.destinationspace.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Roy Hales New URL From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:23:58 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:54:30 -0400 Subject: Roy Hales New URL Hi All, Please find enclosed my new web site URL: http://members.netscapeonline.co.uk/royjhale/ Please check it out, I haven't got a counter on it yet but should do by the weekend. If you would like me to put a link on the site for you then contact me with the details. Regards, Roy.. Keep Smiling!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 UFO Enthusiasts Meet For Sightings At Bonnybridge From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:45:38 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:51:10 -0400 Subject: UFO Enthusiasts Meet For Sightings At Bonnybridge Source: Deseret News via Scripps Howard News Service, http://deseretnews.com:80/dn/view/1,1249,115010724,00.html? Stig *** Thursday, September 23, 1999 Scottish village gears up for visits by wee green men UFO enthusiasts meet for sightings at Bonnybridge By Rachel Jolley London Observer Service ** Ever wondered why UFOs always appear in the middle of nowhere rather than skimming into, say, Trafalgar Square? If aliens are advanced beings, why can't they land where someone might see them, instead of picking the deserts of Nevada or Britain's own UFO hotspot, the pinprick on the map of Scotland that is Bonnybridge? Well, ours is not to reason why, ours is just to observe where the wee green men choose to make their appearance. At least, that's what Bonnybridge is hoping for as it tries to make the most of its 15 minutes of notoriety by turning itself into Britain's holiday "Area 51." Bonnybridge's latest attraction for outsiders is a set of UFO weekends. And, yes, people are attending � a party of 20 Norwegians have already booked. The Bonnybridge phenomenon started in 1992, when local people reported seeing strange lights in the night sky. The small village lies at the center of Scotland, not far from Falkirk, about 25 miles from both Edinburgh and Glasgow. Dour, gray and respectable, it is not a place given to flights of fancy, but about half the residents and a few visitors claim to have seen something inexplicable glimmering in the sky. Craig Malcolm, for example, has video footage taken over six years outside the Forge restaurant his family runs, and while three airports and a gas-flaring oil terminal all lie within a 30-mile radius and can offer some explanation for what he has shot, there's something very eerie about watching a ball of light dog-legging back and forth across a clear blue sky outside the house you're sitting in � even if only on a video. A weekend of "ufology" held a few mysteries of its own. Who would be there? How serious would it be? Would we see anything mysterious? Certainly the UFO addicts turned up. There were Brian and Billy � Scotland's answer to the X Files duo � who are often called in by anxious householders convinced their homes have an uninvited resident. They came equipped with briefcases, business cards and a waterfall of information about everything from Knights Templar to Scottish castles. Craig Malcolm is a UFO enthusiast who devotes every Saturday night to sky-watching. "My girlfriend didn't used to be interested," he explained, describing the hours he put in to watch the action in the skies. But now, apparently, she is caught up in the whole experience. After a morning of lectures and tours, and a quick stop at Craig's mum's restaurant for some excellent soup, an afternoon in the dark viewing videos of sci-fi sagas seemed appropriate. Saturday night is the weekend's highlight, when four to six hours are spent under the stars in favorite spotting sites such as the pylons where a circular ball of light bounced along the tree tops, and a field where a planelike object with no wings sent "black reek belching out the back of it" as it soared off into the sky. Even famed "Men in Black" have been spotted cruising around in large black cars (no number plates, of course), having roads blocked off to the public. None the less, there was something very down to earth about the barbecue that accompanied my skywatch � plenty of hot dogs and hot toddies to keep us going and a wide array of condiments. As it was a summer night in Scotland, we could have expected a close encounter of the cold and damp kind, but despite the drizzle, the atmosphere sizzled. Craig was not hopeful. "The weather's not right. We'll not see anything tonight," he said, in dark tones. Still, a party spirit kept hopes high. X Files star Gillian Anderson was filming in the area, and that could only be a good omen, we thought, agreeing to a walk across a dark and muddy golf course in search of a better view. Finally, at the top of the hill, we saw bright lights and heard a strange whirring noise, but it was only the night shift at a local factory. The whole thing was surreal, but only because we couldn't credit why, at one o'clock on a Sunday morning, we were trekking across a golf course in the rain. It was life, Jim, but not as we know it. * Distributed by Scripps Howard News Service
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Filer's Files #38 -- 1999 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:38:47 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:57:43 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #38 -- 1999 Filer's Files #38 -- 1999, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern September 23, 1999, Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 Visit our Web Site at www.filersfiles.com UFO sightings continue in United Kingdom, Turkey, and Australia with 200 reported per month in US during June, July and August. I personally survived hurricane Floyd with the loss of a tree in our yard and six inches of rain that filled the lake. UFO BELIEVERS STILL BEING ARRESTED IN CHINA Hundreds of Falun Gong sect continue to be arrested in China. As many as one hundred million Falun Gong members are believers in the teachings of self-control and Buddhist enlightenment. The statues and portraits of Buddha are always inside a circle. In particular, Buddha always sits inside a circle that some believe represents a disk shaped UFO. Look at some of the ancient temples themselves, and they often are built similar in appearance to a UFO. The writings of the Falun Gong boldly state Budda was visited by extraterrestrials. These stories are similar to the teachings of angels in other religions. The Falun Gong Lecture 8, The Heavenly Circuit states, "Sakyamuni talked about the theory of three thousand worlds at his level. Namely, there are also people in this Milky Way like our human race with flesh bodies. In comparison with those lives on the planets of higher wisdom in the entire universe, the scientific level of our human race is quite low. We cannot even reach other dimensions which simultaneously exist in the same place while flying saucers from other planets can travel directly in other dimensions. The concept of that time-space has all changed. Thus, to you that this universe also has its boundary." The point is that Communist China is afraid of the Falun Gong beliefs. The government depends on the People's Liberation Army (PLA) to keep order and prop up the regime. Up until recently the PLA ran most of the businesses and utilities in the country. Chinese fighter aircraft are being launched to chase away the UFOs. If you remember the Reuters World Service Story of a Chinese passenger plane was forced to make an emergency landing after the glass of the cockpit window was cracked by a UFO at 31,000 feet. The object collided with a Boeing 757-200 on December 19, 1996, according to the Yancheng Evening News. Prior to the fall of Communism in the Soviet Union, Poland, East Germany and other countries large numbers of UFO sightings were reported. It appears the signs and warnings in the sky will cause trouble to the Chinese Communist Regime and particularly Prime Minister Zhu Rongji. As difficult as it is to believe, it appears the Chinese government is flirting with disintegration. Military power is on the rise in these troubled times. If you believe UFOs are in our skies, its time to realize they cause change in our world. Thanks to the Falun Gong, details at: www.falundafa.org. PENNSYLVANIA UFO INVESTIGATION MOUNT CARMEL -- Dr. Sam Greco who lives in the area maintains that he has observed strange objects on regular basis. Reports of UFOs in Berks and Schuylkill Counties are not unusual. Krumsville has a long history of strange occurrences. MUFON investigators Richard Lang, Steve Tzikas, and Bob Tarantino went to Dr. Greco's home to investigate during June and July nightwatch's. During the June nightwatch they saw what appeared to be a small plane reverse itself. Richard Lang an experienced pilot states, "I saw by myself, a strange small plasma-like object materialize and dematerialize in front of me in a one-second period" Steve Tzikas describes the results of the July 23 and 24 nightwatch held on top of a hill in the Krumsville area. Heavier than normal air traffic was observed on Friday, July 23, but less traffic was observed on Saturday, possibly due to a lightning. Darker than normal viewing was achieved by taking positions on an abandoned road away from streetlights. Equipment included quality binoculars (Tasco offshore 54, 7 x 50 mm, with compass, range finder, paro prisms) able to discern objects better; a scanner (29 MHz to 950 MHz, trunk tracker); a tripod video (Sony Handycam 72x digital zoom, video Hi 8 XR); a digital camera (Mavica high resolution FD 81); a handheld spot light flood light; other lower quality cameras, videos, and binoculars; and aeronautical charts, topographic charts, aeromagnetic maps, and gravitational anomaly maps from USGS. Between the two skywatches of late June and July, dozens of objects were seen that exhibited no noise; slow motion; non-regular flight traffic and maneuvers that seemed sudden. One satellite was seen. A distant lightning storm was moving west to east on July 24. As MUFON investigators we came to some possible explanations for what was seen. It would not be too unusual not to have heard sound coming from some of the objects observed if the conditions were appropriate. No communication was received on the scanner, but this is not unusual too. A number of small airports are located around the observation position and normal landing procedures exhibit characteristics (90 degree turns and spot light checks) that can appear odd in the dark night sky. Hills and mountains surround the area and aircraft must make steep ascents and descents, hence appearing suddenly on the horizon once in level flight. The local police informed us of some unusual reported sightings and cult groups practicing animal sacrifice and chanting rituals in the area. Perhaps the latter is one explanation for historically reported cattle mutilations in the vicinity. A visit to Northumberland Airport revealed personnel knowledgeable of sightings in the area. One person recalled that ultralight aircraft were the culprit in one set of sightings. Some items remained difficult to explain. In addition to the many strange lights seen by Dr. Greco (a trained observer and MUFON investigator) in the vicinity of his Mt. Carmel home since 1993. The late June nightwatch still has the baffling appearance of an aircraft that reversed direction (180 degrees) along the same flight path. An airport person confirmed stories of ball lighting (Tesla orbs) floating into people's homes in the 1960s in Pottsville, PA. The news media did not cover the story. Black helicopters still strangely operate in the county area and photographs of one in action were taken by an eyewitness. In one photograph a strange Tesla image was captured near the helicopter. On July 24 at 10:15 PM, I observed a strange object materialize about 20 feet away in front of me. It move upward and forward (about half a foot), and dematerialize, in a short period of one-second. The object was a bright flame like consistency and the same color as fire. It appeared three feet over the road pavement and was about two feet in length, and three inches wide. The wobbling rod like shaped object had its long axis parallel to the ground. The three others in the group were faced in the opposite direction and did not see it. I can offer no rational explanations. Thanks to TZIKAS@compuserve.com, samgre@juno.com (Dr Sam Greco), Richard.lang@smtpgate.crestar.com , taranr@erols.com (Bob Tarantino) TWO FLYING TRIANGLES OVER GEORGIA LA GRANGE -- John Thompson reports that Ian Stern, the Public Affairs Officer for Hurlbert Field said none of their aircraft were involved in the August 2, 1999, Flying Triangle incident. However, he was most interested in what type craft were involved. His number is (850) 884-7464. All military bases checked denied that it was any of their craft. While I certainly haven't excluded some kind of secret stealth craft, my Chambers County witnesses don't believe that is the case. When the two UFOs left they went up opposite of each at 60-80 degree angles and at shooting star like speeds. Even if you accept they're exaggerating, you have to wonder how could human pilots withstand those type of G forces? Of course, they could be some kind of giant remote controlled aircraft. The other characteristic that is hard to explain--but not impossible in my estimation-is that the husband kept saying that no craft that big (160 feet or bigger) could fly that slow, 30-35 mph. He also said it was dead calm and that it didn't make a peep as it came over at under 300 feet. I'm more impressed with the tremendous acceleration without any sound as they flew into space. The witness mentioned that blimps always make some kind of engine noise. The craft was seen less than 300 feet away for nearly a minute by three people. The craft were 160 feet in width and illuminating the ground. Their slow movement and instant acceleration combined all together in one craft makes a most convincing true UFO to me. The Public Affairs Officer at Ft. Benning told me he was "courtroom" sure that no craft from there or its Lawton Field participated in the August 2nd incident. He said he pulled every "strip" on that night to check what flew in and out of Ft. Benning. I'm utterly convinced that if all the public affair officers were honest with me--assuming they were in the "know"-- then the military helicopters that showed up within ten minutes following the blasts could not have been military craft per se; more likely, military/reserve/guard aircrews detached, possibly with their aircraft, to the NSA, NRO or some other ultra-secret federal agency. NORAD finally called me and a Navy Petty Officer told me that there was no space-junk entering the atmosphere around this area within a 24 hour period. More details of this case can be seen at, http://www.isur.com/cases/case_fil.cgi?file=100149. Thanks to John Thompson. FLORIDA MYAKKA STATE PARK -- Ann M. Lieberman reports there was a major sighting in the Venice, Florida area on September 7, 1999. An individual was driving from Arcadia toward Sarasota between 4:30 and 5:00 AM. Suddenly, the cab of his truck lit up three miles east of Myakka State Park. He rolled down his window to see where it was coming from and was shocked to see a huge object 75 yards from him. The driver said, He saw a spaceship!" (his words). He said, it started out as a bright star and it got "real bright." It was a football field and a half long (450 feet). The UFO had a blimp like shape and was brown gray in color. It had windows that were 15 or 20 feet long by 8 inches wide with a bluish light emanating from them. It stopped parallel to him and moved towards him before backing off a bit. Then it departed faster than the speed of light. It had an intense narrow cylindrical beam of light coming out of the back of it that left a little smoke for a fraction of a second when it took off silently. After watching for a while he panicked and drove off at high speed with the UFO following for a while. Then it abruptly took off He described the whole event and size of the spaceship as overwhelming. Another individual also saw the UFO just north of Venice around 5:00 AM. It was heading west toward the Gulf of Mexico. It was flying just above the telephone poles. This individual watched with binoculars and described the UFO as big lights with balls of fire that would break off and leave trails of vapor. They were similar to glowing red rocks. Thanks to Ann Lieberman amlieberman@yahoo.com LOUISIANA LANDING AND POSSIBLE ABDUCTION LAKE CHARLES -- On August 22, 1999, Justin Thibodeaux was informed by a 87 year old friend that she had seen some unexplained things in the sky that morning. Mrs. Mary who I have known all my life she was sitting on her back porch enjoying her morning coffee at 4:30 AM. She had a feeling of goose bumps all over and looked to the west and witnessed a large 'V' shaped craft hovering over her. It made a small buzzing noise and shone a bright blue light that lit up her back yard. The next thing she remembers is waking up at 8:00 AM in her tool shed. This has happened four times this year and she was still shaking from shock when I talked to her. IOWA -- Eric Tyson reports that he and his wife witnessed a UFO landing on September 10, 1999, near Lake Charles. The UFO made a quiet landing in their cow pasture. They saw a door or a hatch open up and two beings got out. The entities seemed interested in the vegetation and in taking soil samples. The beings were 3 foot 5 inches tall or shorter, with an odd grayish skin color with a pink tint to it. They had large eyes and walked very fast. John and his spouse wanted to greet the beings and walked towards them. John claims, he was told telepathically to keep his distance or he will pay for it! They continued walking toward the UFO and the beings vanished into the ship and took off. Justin reports, "I can verify something did land there, the grass is burnt in a very odd way even the nearby trees are dying. I will send pictures soon. Thanks to Justin Thibodeaux at jrt187@aol.com. TEXAS LIGHTS AUSTIN - On September 9, 1999, a married couple, Mike and Judy saw a pair of dim lights move east at 9:30 PM. One light was following the other, and then zipped up beside it. They moved half way across the sky and took a quick right turn heading south and disappeared! Thanks to Morgan Clements WRC, www.ufosightings.net MISSOURI DAYLIGHT DISK SIGHTED OZARK -- Douglas reports that on August 23, 1999, I witnessed a silver-gray disk hovering over my home. I was sitting in my home office using the Internet at 14:15 PM listening to my police scanners. The Christian County Sheriff's office dispatcher started having problems communicating with their patrol cars on frequency 155,565. I could hear a humming sound in my office that was hurting radio communications. I thought that we had a power surge that effected the town. About five minutes, I was still hearing the humming and the dispatcher was getting frantic. She called Radiophone Engineering to repair the problem. I walked outside to track down the humming and noticed a silver-gray disk directly above my home. The UFO was approximately 100 yards in diameter and 15 feet high. It was tilted at about 25 degrees towards the earth. The disk hovered about 250 feet above me for at least twenty minutes. I live next to the power transformers and some power lines in my subdivision. The disk had a blue, then white, then red light coming from the bottom moving in a perfect circle. I listened to my scanner and the sheriff's dispatcher was still having problems with her radio transmissions. The humming sound continued constantly until the UFO moved northwest of my location, along the Finley River and disappeared straight upward. The scanner indicated the Sheriff's radio cleared up after the disk left. Brake lights on two cars at Dennis Hank's Chevrolet were stuck on according to the Ozark Police Department scanner reports. Many Ozark citizens were standing on main street right after the event looking into the sky. Five minutes of time was added to my watch. Numerous aircraft and helicopters were seen for an hour after the event. An earthquake occurred four hours earlier on the New Madrid fault line at the southeast tip of Missouri. This is my first UFO report. I would never have believed it, until I witnessed it myself! Thanks to: Morgan Clements, WorldWide UFO Reporting Center, www.ufosightings & schumpy@aol.com. SOUTH DAKOTA CATTLE MUTILATION Nancy Talbott from the BLT Research Team writes the most interesting report I have heard lately concern's a rancher and his wife in South Dakota. Their 1800 pound bull was found lying impaled on a barbed-wire fence and mutilated a month ago. Ten days later, a neighbor located only half a mile away found a mutilated cow. They also reported seeing "columns, or shafts, of light" coming down from above. There was no discernible source where the light could be emanating. Ted Phillips reports that Missouri residents were also seeing "puddles" of light, which illuminated various areas of their fields. However, they had not seen a column or shaft of light coming down to the 'puddle' of light. Again there was no obvious source of the illumination. I'm getting weird stories from all over the world including a lot of crop circle activity in Canada. I phone people all over the world and never mention UFOs, but after collecting some facts they volunteer they are seeing them. Thanks to Nancy Talbott, BLT Research Team for the update. bltresearch@mediaone.net (Nancy Talbott) OREGON FLYING TRIANGLE PORTLAND -- James A. Gilliland wrote, on September 4th and 5th we had over ten sightings of UFOs flying over the Sanctuary. They burst into large golden balls of light almost as big as the moon upon flying over the center. UFO sightings are a regular occurrence at the Sanctuary. One in particular was a large triangular craft. I have seen these triangular craft at tree top level fly directly overhead making no sound whatsoever. They were around 150 ft long and were black domed triangles. We have video of the ships over Portland State University. Thanks to Glennys Mackay Director MUFON Australia & James Gilliland http://www.cazekiel.org UFO PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN IN TURKEY? ISTANBUL -- Bill Cain writes that, "At sunset on August 16, 1999, just before the great earthquake hit early the next morning, I was taking pictures of the mosques in Istanbul." After returning home, I noticed something peculiar in a sequence of shots I had taken of the Suleymanhiye Mosque, that I hadn't noticed at the time I was there. The best photo shows a small double white light separated by a column -- much like a split window of a craft in the sky over the mosque. A dim third light seems to be emanating from the back side of this craft -- away from where I was standing. The craft seems to be far in the distant sky and somewhat disc shaped. I will verify this when I enlarge the image. I am definitely not familiar with any airplane lights that resemble these lights. They could not have come from any other structure in the city. I was shooting up and there is nothing higher in that part of the city. I'd be interested to know if there were any other sightings in Istanbul that evening? Thanks to Bill Cain pcain@tiac.net Editor's Note: Numerous Earth Lights were observed throughout the area prior to, during and after the Earth Quakes. These lights are thought to be caused by the buildup of electrical energy along the fault lines. This may explain your sighting. UNITED KINGDOM SIGHTING ASHTON-UNDER LYNE, LANCANSHIRE - Jenny Randle's reports a case was just forwarded to me by Jodrell Bank, as they often are. I have passed it to a local investigator. The incident occurred at 5:20 AM on September 8, l999. The sky was dark, but lightening with stars visible. The female witness observed a cloudy mass in the west towards Manchester. Within it was a large number of twinkling lights that broke pattern and headed off, one streaking upwards and others going in two different directions. Some remained in the cloudy mass. All were 'flashing.' Gradually all the lights disappeared. Comment: Perhaps, they were planes refueling behind clouds that can look truly amazing? Thanks to Jenny Randles. AUSTRALIA GRAFTON -- Barry Taylor reports, "I got nine minutes of a great bit of UFO footage on September 15, 1999. At 10:55 AM, I saw an orange UFO about 3,000 feet in altitude coming in from the west and heading over the town. I set the camera on my tripod and let it move through the viewer. This UFO was trailing something under the object that looked like a shiny 'ribbon.' It was attached to a black thing under the silvery main object and rotating like a tadpole swimming. The movement of the object is clearly seen in the steady shots. It has jerky moves, similar to someone swimming the breast stroke. Thanks to. Barry Taylor stingray@nor.com.au NEW BOOK -- GEORGIA AERIAL PHENOMENON Michael D. Hitt, MUFONGA's historian and archivist, has completed his publication 'Georgia's Aerial Phenomenon 1947-1987.' Copies are now available through mail order. Michael has devoted the last three years to research for this project, and the book contains over 200 articles and witness accounts concerning our local aerial phenomenon during that 40 year period. Witnesses range from military and commercial pilots to law enforcement officers and news reporters and FAA personnel. The original sources range from Project Blue Book reports, to newspaper articles and UFO research organization files. This book is a handy historical reference for law enforcement officers, UFO investigators and Georgia citizens who are concerned about the anomalous objects in the Georgia skies. The book can be ordered for $13.00 (includes shipping) from Michael D. Hitt, 23 Old Holcomb Bridge Way, Roswell Georgia, 30076 KECKSBURG, PENNSYLVANIA CRASH TAPE -- UFO crash/retrieval Video Documentary Most readers of this column are familiar with the Roswell event, but many are unaware that a similar incident occurred in Pennsylvania in 1965, near a small rural community called Kecksburg. Veteran UFO researcher Stan Gordon, has been gathering information on this case for many years, and has produced a studio made 92 minute video called "Kecksburg The Untold Story." This production recently won the 1998 EBE film award for the Best Historical UFO Documentary. The video contains interviews with many people who have information about the case. Witnesses came across a large metallic acorn shaped object with strange markings, partially buried in the ground, before the military arrived on the scene. A witness says he saw the odd acorn shaped object on the back of an army flatbed tractor trailer truck. Civilians claim they were confronted by armed military personnel. For the first time witnesses speak out on camera discussing information which suggests that there could have been a cover-up. A startling revelation is revealed here from a witness, who says he saw a body in the same building with the Kecksburg object at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base only days after it was delivered there. Also contained in the documentary are some of the actual audio excerpts from the WHJB radio special called "Object in the woods." To order your copy of "Kecksburg The Untold Story" send a check or money order to: Stan Gordon Productions, Dept. GF, P.O. Box 936, Greensburg, PA 15601. The cost of the tape including shipping and handling is $35.90. For PA residents the cost including tax, S&H is $38.05. For more info check out Stan's website at www.westol.com/~paufo MUFON JOURNAL For more detailed investigative reports subscribe by writing to 103 Oldtowne Road, Sequin, TX 78155-4099 or E-mail Mufon@aol.com. Filer's Files Copyright 1999 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on their Websites provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. Send your letters to me at Majorstar@aol.com. If you wish to keep your name confidential please so state. Visit our Web Site at www.filersfiles.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:40:46 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:10:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:14:35 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:31:54 -0600 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>I think this is a very important point that tends to be >>overlooked in the rest of the hubris - that Ed allowed the >>originals to be tested. >>If Ed was such a hoaxer he wouldn't have gained anything by >>doing that. Did Billy Meier do that? Uh, I don't think so. >He had plenty to gain and nothing to loose. If the photos were >found to be faked, so what. He says, "Haha, gotya!" If they are >declared real he keeps playing the joke. Ed stuck his neck out pretty far with the controversy over the photos. I believe it cost him a marriage and plenty of criticism so, what did he gain here? I fail to see your point. Years later, Ufology is still re-hashing the analysis of his photos. Has anyone proved conclusively and specifically how he hoaxed his photos? No, they haven't. Ed isn't that clever. It's one thing to yell hoax. another to prove it. Someone who cleverly engineers a hoax is not about to release the original negatives. Meier never, I repeat never, allowed a original negative to be analysed. They were all 2nd or 3rd generation copies, which for analysis purposes is completely worthless. >And speaking of jokes. I recently read an article by a woman who >was on the staff of the newspaper down there when it was all >going on. She claims that she and another woman knew Walters and >the editor... what was his name?... were pulling a hoax and she >claimed that she was told by the editor to make sightings of >non-UFOs into UFOs to keep the hysteria going. >Ill see if I can find more on that. BTW: she said she was >afraid of being fired at the time, she was a single mother and >couldn't afford to rock the boat. But feels quite compromised >now and bad that she didn't speak up at the time. Yea, so what. Others have made claims about Ed's supposed hoaxing abilities..Tommy Smith comes to mind. No meat on these bones, Terry. Anecdoctal tales aren't facts. >>I think it's unfair, but you will probably have to put up with >>this kind of demeaning crap from your mealy-mouth detractors >>mainly because you have been so high profile on the Walters >>photo analysis. >Mealy mouth detractors? I would think that anyone in ufology >would welcome discourse. How do we learn if we don't speak >freely, and look at criticism as a way of tightening up our >suppositions? After all, if Dr. Maccabee hadn't been criticized >in the first place he never would have been able to change his >calculations (over and over again) giving us the final >conclusion (almost) of the dimensions of the craft, distance, >etc. That book would have gone to print with the wrong info in >it and he would have to defend that! You can dispute my specific choice of words, that's fine. I call it like I smell it. Jerry Black has been carping and whining, pointing fingers and acting as judge, jury and self-annointed executioner of Ufology for months. And yes, his latest attack of mortar fire rhetoric is mealy-mouthed. This isn't "discourse". It's Jerry's poison pen letters damning people by association. And because he doesn't agree with certain figures in Ufology, they get accused of being in the "good ole boys club". What rubbish! Don http://www.fwpd.net/dona/tesla/teslacoil.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:06:55 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:18:23 -0400 Subject: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees Source: "alt.alien.visitors". I don't buy the conspiracy part, but Winston really needs to re-think its ad policy. Stig *** From: Mark Shippey <kprinter@dfw.nationwide.net> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Winston cigarette ad slams abductees Date: 24 Sep 1999 02:37:37 GMT In a publication called the Fort Worth Weekly, Winston, the tobacco company is running an advertisement insulting abductees and aliens. I quote.... "If aliens are smart enough to travel through space, why do they keep abducting the dumbest people on earth?" Can you believe it? This company manages to insult both the Greys and the abductees in the same sentence. And they are running this ad in various publications. And I'll bet this ad was designed by some smart ass yuppie mid level ad executive who really thinks he/she is cute. They are making light of The Horrible Truth of the Alien Invasion. I think this is The Conspiracy and their multi-national flunkeys trying to help the world let its guard down. But They can't fool us.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Resignation From 'Beyond' & 'Quest' Magazines From: Philip Mantle - QUEST <pmquest@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:56:12 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:20:58 -0400 Subject: Resignation From 'Beyond' & 'Quest' Magazines Dear All, Please be aware that of todays date (29 September, l999) Philip Mantle and Susan Mantle (Susan Key) have resigned from working for BEYOND & QUEST magazine p[ublished by Roy Bird & Top Events & Publications Ltd. This resignation has nothing, I repeat, nothing to do with my recent ill health, but instead it is a personal matter between us and Roy Bird of a financial nature. We would like to wish the respective Editors of both BEYOBNd (Tim Matthews) and QUEST (Jon Downes) every success in the future and we are proud of the contributions we have made to these publications since the beginning of the year. Our resignation is final and complete and we will never work for Roy Bird and Top Events & Publications again. Yours Sincerely, Philip & Susan Mantle. 29 September, l999.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Victor Hugo Spoke To Aliens From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:56:49 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:23:16 -0400 Subject: Victor Hugo Spoke To Aliens From: "John Chambers" <jdc@flinet.com> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: WHEN LES MISERABLES AUTHOR VICTOR HUGO SPOKE TO ALIENS FROM MERCURY, JUPITER AND THE STARS *** When Les Miserables Author Victor Hugo Spoke To Aliens From Mercury, Jupiter And The Stars We would like to draw your attention to a publishing event of unusual importance to students of channeling and of paranormal phenomena in general, including UFOs. While in political exile on the Channel Island of Jersey in 1853-1855, the great French writer Victor Hugo participated in well over one hundred turning table spiritistic seances. The communications from the spirits, conveyed by a table leg tapping out letters (the precursor of the Ouija board), allegedly came from dead historical and literary personages, including Galileo, Shakespeare, Hannibal, Christ and Mozart; from abstractions like Balaam's Ass, Idea, Drama, India and Russia; from strange, otherworldly entities with names like the Shadow of the Sepulcher, Death, and Archangel Love; and even from aliens, including ETs from Jupiter, Mercury and the stars. The author of Les Miserables deeply believed in the reality of these communications, predicting that the transcripts of the seances would become "one of the Bibles of the Future." But he said little about these experiences in his lifetime, and the transcripts were not published--and then only in part until 1923, in a volume entitled Chez Victor Hugo: Les Tables Tournantes de Jersey. Though the book, edited by Gustave Simone, enjoyed some popularity in its time, the transcripts were not published again --though this time in a significantly expanded edition-- until 1968, when they made up part of Volume Nine of editor Jean Massin's monumental, 18-volume Oeuvres Compltes de Victor Hugo, published in Paris by Le Club Francais du Livre. Never, until now, has there been any attempt in the English language to analyze the content of these seances, and never, until now, have the transcripts been published in any language other than French. This is because, up until our day, many of the communications, despite their passion, poetry, and brilliance, have remained mysterious to the point of obscurity. In our millennial time, with channeling once more in vogue, and much material being channeled allegedly not only from humans but also from aliens, Victor Hugo's conversations with the spirits have suddenly taken on new meaning. A newly-published book from New Paradigm Books, Conversations with Eternity: The Forgotten Masterpiece of Victor Hugo, translated with an intensive commentary by John Chambers, with an introduction by Martin Ebon placing this period of Hugo's life in historical context, presents, for the first time in English the best of these communications, interpreting them in the light of modern times, of what we presently understand channeling to be, and of modern-day physics. Here is some of what happened during these revelations: * Hugo had close encounters of the third kind, communicating with an alien from Jupiter named Tyatafia and with the inhabitants of Mercury. The Mercurians were half-physical, half-spirit, and floated in the atmosphere of their planet like living rays of light. * The seance participants listened to the shade of Galileo discuss the universe in Einsteinian terms. * The participants heard the spirit of Joshua (who 'fit' the Battle of Jericho) explain how he demolished the walls of Jericho and made the sun stand still by utilizing the principles of modern-day quantum holography. * The talking tables not only tapped out hundreds of messages but also drew pictures (with a pencil attached to a table leg), notably of the inhabitants of Mercury, and, mostly correctly, of the thoughts of loved ones in the minds of the participants. The spirit draughtsman of the Mercury pictures claimed he was fourteenth-century French alchemist Nicholas Flamel, and his drawings contained alchemical formulae paralleling the descriptions of the Mercurians. * The French poet Andr Chnier, guillotined during the French Revolution, appeared and dictated the final verses of the poem he had been working on before he was executed. The verses, exactly matching the style and quality of the stanzas of the living Chnier, were channeled when Victor Hugo was not at the seance, confounding those critics who believe the contents of the Jersey island seances came from the unconscious mind of that great poet. Chnier also described his own beheading and what came after, in the first-ever channeled description of a near-death experience, and one of the most graphic, compelling and moving ever. * English literature was well represented, with long disquisitions from William Shakespeare and brief, mysterious visits from Lord Byron and Sir Walter Scott. * The table composed music with one of its legs posed on the keyboard of a piano. One of the spirit composers was, allegedly, the spirit of the Ocean itself; the other was Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, who also sometimes spoke at the seances. * A number of spirits claimed they were the shades of beasts who, in myth and legend, had helped mankind. This included the Lion of Androcles, who spared Androcles in the Roman Forum because the Christian had earlier removed a thorn from the lion's paw; Balaam's Ass, who, permitted by God to speak, set the erring Moabite Holy Man Balaam back on the path of righteousness; and the Dove of Noah's Ark, who guided the ark of humanity to a new and safe resting place. These animal-entities told Hugo that, though animals couldn't reason, they could glimpse God; the entities further communicated to the novelist-poet-playwright a thoroughly modern Animals' Rights and Plants' Rights agenda, insisting that, since all beast and plant life contained souls, even those forms of life should be treated with the utmost love and respect. As Chapter 21 of the Conversations --entitled "I love the Nettle and I Love the Spider: The Fifth Religion of Victor Hugo"-- makes clear, the poet embraced these beliefs wholeheartedly, returning crabs and lobsters to the ocean, allowing his property to be overrun by wild animals, and refusing to cut flowers or to have them cut in his presence. Hugo even maintained a careful respect for stones, which were also, according to the spirits, vessels of conscious soul matter. * The turning table channeled a lion speaking the language of lions and a comet speaking the language of comets and drawing its own self-portrait. * The spirits preached a new doctrine of reincarnation, or metempsychosis, which included lifetimes as animals. They claimed that human souls advance steadily through stone, animal and plant lives up a Great Chain of Being that leads them to existence as an angel, but that they are in constant danger of backsliding if they commit serious crimes; such souls risk tumbling all the way back down the Chain to immediate reincarnation as a stone. The spirits declared that Cleopatra, to cite an example, had been reincarnated as a worm. At one seance, the personification of Metempsychosis itself spoke to Hugo and the other participants, summing up the doctrine of metempsychoses in each of 14 brilliant statements. * The spirit called Death asked Hugo to set up a last will and testament for his writings in such a way that his words would continue to appear posthumously from the grave --in "periods of human crisis, when some shadow passes over progress, when clouds blot out the ideal." The year 2000" was one date mentioned. Curiously, it is only now, in our modern world with its understanding of Einsteinian physics and quantum holography, that these transcripts can be read with any degree of understanding. The spirits almost seem to be specifically addressing our millennial times. In the person of Joshua, they appear to be hinting at methods, which we may not be able to grasp until well into the twenty-first century, of harnessing the essentially unitary nature of our physical and non-physical universe. " The brilliant Carthaginian general Hannibal, who came close to conquering the Roman Empire in the third century B.C., appeared and described in fantastical terms the imperial city of Carthage as it was before the Romans razed it. " Perhaps most amazingly, the spirits seemed to speak from the very hearts of stars, describing a universe filled with gleaming stars which were obliged to help weeping stars, and of worlds of reward upon which dwelt souls of men and women who had lived lives deserving of reward; these latter worlds were obliged to help punitary planets inhabited by human souls who had lived wrongly and therefore now had to undergo a purgatorial existence. The spirits who spoke to Hugo seemed uncertain as to which worlds were those of reward and which were ones of punishment, suggesting at one point that Jupiter was a "retirement home" for geniuses like Mozart and Aeschylus, and at another that that planet was a minor orb inhabited by the baleful likes of a Tyatafia. The spirits seemed to assert ultimately that all physical planets were punitary, while worlds of reward were ethereal non-physical globes of living light. But the spirits were never ambivalent in their assertion that all advantaged entities in our universe are under a strict moral imperative to help all less advantaged entities; this moral imperative was communicated to Hugo with firmness and with urgency. All these beliefs, conveyed to Victor Hugo in 1853-1855, are so much like those channeled by modern-day trance mediums that they could have been written yesterday and not 150 years ago. Can all this be true? Is metempsychosis a reality? Did the Spirits of Death and of Galileo and of Christ and of Balaam's Ass speak to Victor Hugo, in the mid-nineteenth century, of Einsteinian physics and quantum holography? Is the entire universe a single, conscious, living entity? Do and must gleaming stars help weeping stars? Do all beasts, plants and even stones encapsulate souls, thereby having the right to the same love and respect as human beings? Conversations with Eternity, The Forgotten Masterpiece of Victor Hugo, translated with a commentary by John Chambers, with an historical introduction by Martin Ebon, illuminates all of these questions. For further information, visit the web site of NEW PARADIGM BOOKS/The Journal of Pan-Dimensional Literature at: http://www.newpara.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 CPR-Canada News: Two More Formations Near Midale, From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:09:21 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:26:39 -0400 Subject: CPR-Canada News: Two More Formations Near Midale, CPR-Canada News News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Two More Crop Formations Near Midale, Saskatchewan September 24, 1999 _____________________________ Editor: Paul Anderson _____________________________ Preliminary Report - September 24 By Paul Anderson Two more formations reported yesterday, September 23 near Midale, Saskatchewan. These are the third and fourth Midale area reports, and the fourteenth and fifteenth now for the year in Canada. Midale #3 - September 14 Reported by reporter Sherri Tessier. A formation of two "circles" just east of Midale, not far from the three-in-a-row formation (Midale #2) and possibly also in a field owned by the same farmer, Bob Ashe (awaiting confirmation). First spotted on September 14 by a local pilot. One circle is a large single ring, approximately 80' - 90' diametre, the other is a smaller circle with two surrounding rings, about 50 feet diametre (initial estimates). Midale #4 - September 20 Reported by reporter Sherri Tessier and Nancy Talbott of BLT. Two new small circles in the same field as the first Midale formation from September 6. Both are about 8 feet in diametre, in wheat. Sampling for BLT is being done tomorrow. First seen September 20, and reportedly not there as late as September 18. Further details, fields reports, images when available. Also, aerial photos have been taken of all of the (to date) Midale formations by Sherri and a pilot associate, and will be available soon. Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada _____________________________ Circle Phenomena in Canada Report Archive 1999: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html A reminder for all Canadian subscribers/readers - your assistance is welcome and needed - ANY reports of other possible circles this year, please do let us know as soon as possible! See Reporting and Field Research Guidelines on the web site for more information: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reporting.html REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522 _____________________________ CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International), and is published periodically or as breaking news develops, with the latest news and information and is available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or "unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.c CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions. Forward all correspondence to: CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Office Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 � Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 1999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Atmospheric Effects On Star Observation From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:03:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:30:42 -0400 Subject: Atmospheric Effects On Star Observation I'm forwarding the following message from the SETI list It shows the dramatic effects of what astronomers call "seeing," i.e. atmospheric turbulence and transparency, upon the observation of a point source. Most researchers check weather when they investigate a sighting. Seeing is somewhat different. Even on a clear, transparent night, seeing can be bad (if the stars twinkle, it's bad!), and as this post points out, it can be a significant factor in the misperception of known astronomical objects. Unfortunately, there aren't any widely-available sources for seeing reports. The only way to be sure what the seeing is like in any area is to be there and to experience it. Field investigators may want to add a nightly seeing check to their normal routine. Many standard astronomical texts contain seeing classification scales. Forwarded post follows: From: "Tony Cecce" <tonycc@EXOTROPE.NET> To: Michael Boschat <andromed@ATM.DAL.CA>, Subject: Re: [ASTRO] UFO Sighting [was: Aurora - Sept.12/12, 1999] Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:05:41 -0400 I received these aurora messages at 22:42UT so immediately went outside to look (I'm at 42.1N latitude). What caught my eye immediately was a plane in the NE. It had it's landing lights on and I could see the red, green and blue flashers. I live near an airport so it is not unusual to see sights similar to this. However, what became immediately strange was the unusual flight pattern. Not only was it flying towards me but it was zig zagging right and left randomly. The hair stood up on my neck as I realized no plane could move like that. The astronomer kicked in and I identified the object as the bright star Capella in Auriga being refracted by bad seeing. Despite that I still could not get the object to quit flying at me and moving right and left. It was not until I moved my position to place the star next to a tree branch that the illusion went away. Even then, if I ignored the branch the illusion would return. Very bizarre. I now understand why people reporting UFO's can be so adamant that what they saw was not a star. BTW, I failed to spot an aurora. Thanks for the messages, keep them coming! Tony Cecce Big Flats, NY
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:58:35 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:35:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 05:23:56 +0100 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:49:54 +0000 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>Of course there was no crash, this is the first time I have even >>heard it suggested. Whatever happened at Rendlesham (alien or >>whatever) came and left intact. >>I do however remember someone (I can't think who at the moment >>putting forward the idea that the trained military personnel >>involved mistook the local lighthouse for a UFO. If this were >>the case then the military personnel involved were no more use >>than a chocolate tea pot. >I asked someone this question previously but they failed to >respond: If the people at the base during the time of the >incident were serving there for more than a year, wouldn't they >have at least seen the lighthouse previously therefore being >able to make a clear distinction? >I have also spent some time at Rendlesham and I have seen the >lighthouse, from which you can clearly see that it flashes in >the trees at the same spot with the same colour each time, the >UFO reports from the base and outside did not mention lights >staying in the exact place. Hi, Yes, it sounds simple put like this but unfortunately its far more complex. There are many issues involved. For a start it depends when you saw the lighthouse from the forest - within the past 11 years or soon after the incidents (as I did). The reason for the difference is a hurricane that destroyed much of the forest and that fundamentally altered the appearance of that area of tree line. A second factor is that there are in fact TWO lighthouses (one the infamous Orford Ness and the other a lightship). Both are involved in the case in a way that you only see when you carefully assess the case and dissect the testimony of the witnesses. There is no real question that more than the lighthouse is involved for one basic reason. The initial sightings occurred at the East Gate from where you simply could not see it because of angles, orientation and dense tree cover. All you could see was the beam in the sky from time to time. So the lighthouse is not the answer, per se, despite the rubbish talked on this case by people who are just desperate for answers. However, balanced against that is the alarming fact that there can be no question the lighthouse was seen and mistaken by the airmen. No question because they themselves state that it was. No question because the physical evidence proves they were looking straight at it when they saw the UFO. Obviously, other factors intervened here. This was no straight mis-perception of a common flashing light. The outcome of this case is a truly confusing combination of events in which the lighthouse simply had to be involved but was not the ultimate answer. To go into more detail here would be too confusing as you have to study mountains of evidence and try to piece the jigsaw together. For me Rendlesham is a terrific example of Ufology in microcosm - with all its values and flaws mixed together. This is one reason why I have strived so hard to try to fathom it out. The truth, I suspect, will turn out to be more down to earth than many people hope, but it will be more than just the lighthouse that the skeptics have so befriended. But no - it was not a UFO crash. That's the main thing. Best wishes, Jenny Randles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 In Search Of A PhD From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:12:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:20:16 -0400 Subject: In Search Of A PhD Hi, I have an urgent snail mail request from a UFO author, Dr Annamarie K Johnstone of Washington State. She included an e mail address for an immediate reply but the mail keeps bouncing claiming this e-mail address does not exist. If any UpDates member knows Dr Johnstone can you please get in touch with her, give her my e-mail address (nufon@currantbun.com) and ask her to get in touch direct so I can help her out. Thanks Jenny Randles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Max Burns Jailed For 30 Months From: David Clarke <crazydiamonds@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:38:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:43:30 -0400 Subject: Max Burns Jailed For 30 Months For those following the trial of British UFO 'researcher' Max Burns comes the news of his jail sentence. Judge Robertshaw at Sheffield Crown Court has described Burns not only as a drug dealer, but someone quite high up in the drugs dealing fraternity. The trial has shown once and for all that Max Burns is a criminal, and someone UFO research can well do without. Those who have supported Burns with his lies and fantasies over the last two years should reflect today on how easily they had the wool pulled over their eyes. If they can be so easily taken in by this man, what does this say about their critical faculties when it comes to assessing UFO cases? Despite informal warnings from myself and others including Andy Roberts and Tim Matthews that Burns was a liar and a criminal, our fears were ignored by a number of well-known British UFOlogists whose silence in the wake of these revelations is deafening. They should read the following story very carefully and reflect on this whole sad, sorry saga: Source: The Sheffield Star, Friday, September 24, 1999: JAIL TERM FOR DRUGS DEALER Ex-DJ locked up for 30 months. by Roy Emery A former disc-jockey who was caught with almost 1,000 amphetamine tablets was jailed for 30 months. Maxwell Burns was sentenced after being caught in a car bringing the drugs into Sheffield. Had he not been stopped, the drugs would have made a sizeable contribution to the nightclub scene in South Yorkshire, Sheffield Crown Court heard. The 36-year-old was described by Judge Patrick Robertshaw as a "wholesaler" who would have sold them on to retailers. He told Burns: "You were some way up the hierarchy." Burns, of Ferrars Road, Tinsley, was convicted earlier this week of possessing the drugs with intent to supply, and supplying 50 of the tablets to Suzanne Bradley, a passenger in the car. During the trial, the court heard that Burns picked up the drugs in a carrier bag just off junction 29 of the M1 motorway. But on the return journey police keeping a surveillance on the car he was travelling in pounced as it left the motorway at Tinsley. Before he was jailed, it was revealed that in 1992 Burns saved a Derby police officer from a severe beating at the hands of three assailants. Judge Robertshaw said this deed had earned the defendant a reduction in sentence, because he originally intended to jail Burns for longer.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 99 09:51:15 PDT Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:47:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:48:39 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 99 10:46:07 PDT >>>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:17:30 -0500 >>>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>>Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT Mr. Evans (with apologies to patient and gentle listfolk): >>What a load of malicious crap. I have no idea who Terry Evans >>is, but that doesn't stop the mindless reputation - trashing, >>obviously. Evidence, logic, reason, or a sense of proportion >>never stops this sort of thing, sad to say. >>Evans doesn't explain to us exactly what horrendous consequences >>will ensue if I "say something (Bruce Maccabee) doesn't like." >>I can tell him: none whatever. Unlike Evans and unlike Jerry >>Black, Bruce -- with whom I have disagreed on occasion, though >>generally he and I have the same outlook on the UFO phenomenon >>-- is a gentleman. He understands that honorable human beings, >>including honorable ufologists, will disagree from time to time. >>To all appearances, however, Evans and Black assume that >>disagreement with them is all the evidence they need of the >>dissenter's venality. No wonder ufological discourse has become >>so warped. >What exactly was malicious about what I said? Its an >observation. I'm 55 years old, I've been interested in UFOs for >a very long time. I've watched and heard the bickering. I've >seen the backbiting. I see the cliques. And I stand by what I >said. Too bad, but I'm not surprised that you'd stand by baseless charges. If you weren't that sort of guy, you wouldn't have made them in the first place. All I can say is that, knowing the individuals (including myself) a hell of a lot better than you do, I know you're wrong. Even, it appears, maliciously wrong. You sought to trash the characters -- with no evidence at all except your own unsupported opinion -- of those who disagree with you, rather than to address their arguments, which is always much more difficult to do. To do the latter, you might even be forced to think, or to educate yourself on such demanding subjects as optical physics and photoanalysis. Yours is the cheapest sort of ad hominem strategy, and it gives me no reason to think well of you. You're precisely the sort of person who's poisoned the well of ufological discourse between, or so I think in my worst moments, redemption. Thank God that gentlemen like Bruce Maccabee have not been driven out of this field entirely. So long as they remain, there is some hope, however small, that civil discourse may survive. >BTW: How about providing all of us with a list of articles by >you, or anyone affiliated with CUFOS which came out against Gulf >Breeze and Mr. Walters and Dr. Maccabee. I know I have read a >few, but I would like to read everything that CUFOS said. You >can do that, can't you? Sorry. I am in the process of moving from one house to another and have just about everything packed up. Perhaps those of you who aren't moving and don't have your issues in boxes can help out here. IUR began covering the Gulf Breeze controversy soon after the incident became known. It had an investigator there early on, Bob Boyd of Mobile, Alabama. Boyd was instantly (some charged prematurely) skeptical. "Hostile" is probably a better adjective than skeptical; Boyd literally disliked Walters on sight. He wrote a monograph titled Failure at Science (1988), which CUFOS sold and distributed. Later, CUFOS published Zan Overall's monograph Gulf Breeze Double Exposed (1990). Page 466 of The UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Ed, carries a bibliography of Gulf Breeze writing, including IUR articles. I simply don't recall whether this is everything we ran, but even if not, it's a representative sample. (I just now recall an anti-GB article by Barbara Becker, and it's unlisted; so the bibliography is _not_ complete.) Listfolk may be amused to know that in its March/April 1988 issue IUR ran a debate on Gulf Breeze, with CUFOS scientific director Mark Rodeghier taking a skeptical position, Dennis Stacy a positive one. >Whether or not Dr. Maccabee is a gentleman is of no concern to >me. I have no trouble believing that. Gentlemanliness is, I gather, no virtue to you. Otherwise, you would not be so obsessed with trashing the good names of honest people. Your betters, one might say. >I totally agree with you... there should be disagreement. There >should be debate. That's the point. CUFOS was a wimp when it >came to criticizing Dr. Maccabee and Hopkins and Andrus. You >(CUFOS) were simply unwilling to get involved and investigate >the case. Absolutely incredible. You know absolutely nothing about the history of CUFOS' involvement with Gulf Breeze. You've just as much as admitted that, but that doesn't stop you from going on to make wild, absurd charges. I can see listfolk who know the real story shaking their heads incredulously at the above. As anybody who knows more than you do (not hard to do) is aware, CUFOS was involved very early on, and its outspoken skepticism caused a period of bad feeling between it and MUFON. You should have seen some of the letters we got from Andrus and Dan Wright, among others. But you don't care, do you? It's more important to feel self-righteous, even at the cost of having to be overwhelmingly ignorant to do it. Though I have deep doubts about the GB photos, your contributions (if that's the word) to the discussion are singularly unproductive. You don't seek to challenge Maccabee's analysis, I'm sure because you lack the technical expertise to do so; instead, as you've done with everybody else, you hurl reckless, unfounded charges against his character. What a waste of time, but what an expelling of rhetorical gas. >You (CUFOS) sent Randle and Schmitt to New Mexico and >backed (financially) the Roswell investigation, but you wouldn't >put any effort into Gulf Breeze? Why? Because it was the baby >of Dr. M. (wasn't he the head of Fund for a while?) and to find >out that he might be lying (ooops) was something you just didn't >want to deal with. Better to say as little as possible and hope >it goes away. Don't ask, don't tell. Is there a single reason why I should take you seriously on _anything_? Every charge you have made is demonstrably wrong, and when challenged, you can only enhance the volume. I'm not impressed. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:06:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:39:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 05:23:47 +0100 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >It is this incident which has seen to eluded a lot of people. >The question being asked again and again: What was the object >that landed at Rendlesham? Now I clearly remember Jenny telling >the UK, on the Strange But True UFO special programme, that she >believed it was nothing more than a Russian object of some kind >and I think the word Nuclear was mentioned? >Now what is the current assessment of the incident? Is Jenny now >saying that she can quite easily wipe out the theory put forward >by some, that is of an object descending from the skies above >Rendlesham and to be seemingly under some kind of Intelligent >control, so much so that it attracted the attention of those on >the base ? >Does the evidence still stand up after all these years? >And I for one don't think this ws a crash of any kind. Hi, I did not say I can quite easily do anything, This case has been by far the most difficult one I have ever been involved with. I did not say on TV that nothing cane down from the sky (from the hole in the tree tops something apparently did). Nor that it was all down to a Russian spacecraft. This case is a set of incidents, interlinked and separate, spread across a weekend. There was a Soviet rocket burn up involved, but its unlikely it crashed into the forest (although not impossible). Far more important are beam weapon experiments using HF radiation then ongoing locally. These, I suspect, were tinkering with the electronics on orbital space programmes as part of the test and parts of the case are tied in to this (but probably not in the sense that they 'shot down' anything - more as spin offs from the testing itself), The rocket re-entry was just a useful scapegoat that allowed anything that happened that night to be blamed on this event with sufficient plausibility that it put enquiring minds off the case. Rendlesham is a big case. Unfortunately, I dont think it is an alien encounter. But it is teaching us a lot about UFOlogy. I know I have learnt more from 19 years and writing three and a half books about it than I have from any other. Best wishes, Jenny Randles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 UFO Desk - New Time Slot From: Paul C. WIlliams <paulw@escape.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:25:04 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:53:57 -0400 Subject: UFO Desk - New Time Slot All, Thanks to a generous offer from anomalies.net UFO Desk can now be heard weekly over the internet. Webcast time is Saturday nights at midnight. The premier program will be a recording done in 1997. The discussion will be centered around the work by Bud Hopkins, 'Witnessed - The True Story of the Brooklyn Bridge UFO Abductions'. Featured guests include, Bud Hopkins, author, and Linda Cortile, the woman who claims she was taken several times by non-humans. Co-host at the time was John Velez. Playwight Eugenia Macer Story, and music critic Greg Sandow round out the guest list, along with listener phone calls in the last hour of the program. This is a fast paced three hour show you won't want to miss. Please come to the UFO Desk website to connect to stream. Paul Williams Executive Producer UFO Desk http://www.anomalies.net/~ufodesk Kewl ufo posters, books, and sci-fi videos at my store. http://shop.affinia.com/paulw/store ICQ# 32519151
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 UFO Or Space Junk? The Truth Is Out There From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 01:17:27 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:44:30 -0400 Subject: UFO Or Space Junk? The Truth Is Out There Source: Oregon Live, http://www.oregonlive.com/news/99/09/st092402.html Stig *** Big debate falls from the skies A strange light seen over Oregon is classified as space junk, but UFO trackers believe otherwise Friday, September 24, 1999 By Beth Quinn, Correspondent, The Oregonian ** GRANTS PASS -- To white-water rafter Margaret Bradford, the strange light blazing in the heavens high above the Rogue River wilderness made for memorable stargazing. "There was a bright light in the sky that looked like an airline light coming at you. It got brighter and brighter and brighter and then just faded out," she said. To North American Aerospace Defense Command inside Cheyenne Mountain Air Station in Colorado Springs, Colo., the bright light was strictly routine. U.S. Space Command tracked it as No. 25,761 in the catalog of the man-made objects orbiting the planet, the auxiliary motor of a Russian SL-12 rocket booster re-entering the Earth's atmosphere at 17,000 mph. But to Peter Davenport of Seattle's National UFO Reporting Center and Nevada radio talk-show host Art Bell, what fell to Earth over Southern Oregon at 9:30 p.m. Sept. 1 was big news and evidence of a government cover-up. "Something's going on out there -- something big," Bell told the 9 million listeners who tuned in to "Coast to Coast AM" that night, urging eyewitnesses to fax or e-mail their descriptions of the sighting. "I'm particularly intrigued by this allegation or assertion that military jets were going out of the Portland area apparently headed south," Davenport said as he played outtakes of messages from unidentified callers to his UFO hot line. "It's going to be very difficult to force this one into the space junk box." Three weeks later, Bell and Davenport continue to push a UFO explanation of the Sept. 1 incident on late-night radio, generating phone calls, faxes and e-mails to Air Force bases across the country. But officials at the 142nd Fighter Wing at Portland International Airport and the North American Aerospace Defense Command inside Cheyenne Mountain are sticking to their stories. "We didn't scramble on a UFO," says Mona Spenst Jordan of the Oregon Air National Guard. "People are watching the skies," says Petty Officer Andy Karalis of NORAD. "They see what they want to see. They see what they want to believe." In Davenport's three appearances on "Coast to Coast" so far this month, he and Bell have focused their suspicions on two aspects of the Sept. 1 incident: the fact that F-15 fighters were in the skies over Oregon that night and the fact that in the first week of September four separate sightings of strange lights in the skies over the United States and Australia were attributed by NORAD to Russian rocket debris. "They're lying to us," Davenport told The Oregonian. "My impression at this time, based on the evidence available to me, is that we're not getting an accurate story from either NORAD or the Air National Guard." As evidence, Davenport points to 23 sighting reports from Northern California and Oregon left on his Web site about the Sept. 1 light that describe from one to seven objects glowing white, orange or red, often with a flaming tail. In addition, he refers to -- and plays cuts from -- another 16 sighting reports from Northern California and Oregon left on his telephone hot line. Several of the recorded reports include claims of multiple objects maneuvering in formation or changing direction. But military officials have their own evidence of what went on that night. For the 142nd Fighter Wing, the evidence includes a September flying schedule laid out months in advance that shows six F-15 Eagles set for an 8:30 p.m. training flight of fighter maneuvers over the Pacific and aerial refueling over the coast between Lincoln City and Astoria. Jordan says four single and one pair of fighter jets took off from Portland between 8:28 p.m. and 8:40 p.m. and landed as two singles and two pairs between 9:06 p.m. and 9:30 p.m. "It's the same night that people saw something in the sky, and they put two and two together," Jordan says. "However, I know for a fact that our jets were flying night training missions and that we were not scrambled on anything or anybody that we couldn't identify." Although two of the fighter wing's 18 F-15 fighters remain on continuous alert -- 24 hours a day, 365 days a year -- ready to intercept any unknown aircraft entering U.S. airspace from the Canadian border to Northern California, Jordan says the 142nd has never scrambled to intercept a UFO. "If we have ever been scrambled, we have always identified every single object," she says. At NORAD headquarters in Colorado, officials make no such claim. Karalis, who handles thousands of e-mail queries each year about unusual lights in the sky, often determines the object was a meteor or other natural phenomenon. "We only track man-made objects," he says. On Sept. 1, NORAD was tracking the auxiliary motor of a Russian Proton rocket that was launched Feb. 28 from the Baikonur space center in Kazakhstan to boost the Raduga 1 satellite into orbit. The Russian boosters came down within days, but the motor -- "about the size of a propane tank that you have for your gas grill," Karalis says -- was scheduled to splash down in the Pacific south of Alaska at 0420 Zulu -- Greenwich Mean Time -- on Sept. 2. It missed. Instead, Space Catalogue No. 25,761 stayed aloft for another 10 minutes, traveling as far south as Oregon before re-entering the Earth's atmosphere at 9:30 p.m. Pacific time on Sept. 1, which is 0430 Sept. 2 in the military's Zulu time. That same day, another bit of Russian space junk let loose during a space walk from the Mir space station streaked across the skies above Sydney, Australia. And on Sept. 7, two more Russian rockets were the explanation NORAD provided for the unusual lights seen at 5:05 a.m. near Tampa, Fla. "If we're to believe the Australian government and Cheyenne Mountain, there have been four major Russian booster re-entries in the past five days," Davenport told Bell that night. Believe it, says Harvard University astrophysicist Jonathan McDowell, whose Web site claims to detail every satellite launch ever made or attempted, all man-made objects now orbiting Earth and the current position of all known satellites in geostationary orbit. "It used to be that they'd launch one every three days," he says. "They would always leave quite a big booster rocket in low orbit that would re-enter after a few days." Although these days the Russians launch only about 30 satellites a year, their launch style still brings a periodic rain of debris. "They tend to come in spurts. They kind of get their team up there to the launch site and launch a few off," McDowell says. According to NORAD, Russia launched three satellites on Aug. 18, two on Aug. 26 and four on Sept. 6, all with boosters that re-entered Earth's atmosphere in the following days. But the Russians aren't the only ones leaving orbiting junk above the Earth. Rocket debris from the United States, India and the European Space Agency has re-entered the atmosphere in the past month, including bits of rockets that exploded in 1972 and 1994, a U.S. booster launched in 1993 and a U.S. Navy navigation satellite launched in 1964. And the blazing rain of space debris will get heavier -- and maybe a whole lot scarier -- in the months to come. For one thing, the sun is reaching the maximum of its 11-year solar cycle, increasing the solar winds, which in turn push against Earth's atmosphere and make the atmosphere more dense and increase the friction against objects traveling through it. Atmospheric friction is what slows satellites and, ultimately, brings them down. "Every 11 years, everything falls out of the sky from that altitude," McDowell says. The biggest piece of space junk still up there is the now-abandoned 100-ton Mir space station, which the Russians hope to bring down over the Pacific Ocean in a controlled re-entry. On late-night radio, Art Bell is already speculating about the problems Mir's re-entry might cause. And in Grants Pass, white-water enthusiast Bradford is still marveling about the strange blaze of light in the wilderness sky. "We saw a satellite, shooting stars and something we couldn't identify," she says. "It was pretty awesome." ** Do you have news of Jackson, Josephine or southern Klamath counties? You can reach Beth Quinn at 541-474-5926 or by e-mail at bquinn@terragon.com Copyright � 1999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees From: Paul C. WIlliams <paulw@escape.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:46:19 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:07:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees >Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:06:55 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >Subject: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees >Source: "alt.alien.visitors". >I don't buy the conspiracy part, but Winston really needs to >re-think its ad policy. >Stig >*** >From: Mark Shippey <kprinter@dfw.nationwide.net> >Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors >Subject: Winston cigarette ad slams abductees >Date: 24 Sep 1999 02:37:37 GMT >In a publication called the Fort Worth Weekly, Winston, the >tobacco company is running an advertisement insulting abductees >and aliens. I quote.... >"If aliens are smart enough > to travel through space, > why do they keep abducting the > dumbest people on earth?" <snip> All, The nature of commercial advertising is to appeal to the majority with some humor. The ad is insulting, the thinking is that people think UFOs and the people involved in the phenomena are silly. This is the mainstream belief - so they would like us to think. But every time I do a live show, there are tons of people who call in with sightings, and they're not dumb, they're concerned. There is currently running on TV a soft drink ad, that makes fun of Italians. Whereas I am not Italian, I am Afro-American, I was insulted by the ad. The majority of viewers I'm sure are not Italian. So they, advertisers, get away with this BS. If you're really pissed drop the folks at Winston, a crappy cigeratte IMHO, a note letting them know you're insulted. It won't stop their stupid ad, it's been running for some time, but perhaps they will think about the next group they decide to insult. BTW, there was a credit card ad that ran in the Washington DC subway system some time ago about, I believe, Harriet Tubman. Something about if she had their card she would not have had to use an underground railway. Enough concerned people in DC wrote, called, etc, the credit card company and they pulled the ad. There is power in numbers. They do listen! Paul Williams Executive Producer UFO Desk http://www.anomalies.net/~ufodesk Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:06:55 To: updates@globalserve.net From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Subject: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees Source: "alt.alien.visitors". I don't buy the conspiracy part, but Winston really needs to re-think its ad policy. Stig *** From: Mark Shippey <kprinter@dfw.nationwide.net> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Winston cigarette ad slams abductees Date: 24 Sep 1999 02:37:37 GMT In a publication called the Fort Worth Weekly, Winston, the tobacco company is running an advertisement insulting abductees and aliens. I quote.... "If aliens are smart enough to travel through space, why do they keep abducting the dumbest people on earth?" Can you believe it? This company manages to insult both the Greys and the abductees in the same sentence. And they are running this ad in various publications. And I'll bet this ad was designed by some smart ass yuppie mid level ad executive who really thinks he/she is cute. They are making light of The Horrible Truth of the Alien Invasion. I think this is The Conspiracy and their multi-national flunkeys trying to help the world let its guard down. But They can't fool us.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 [rense_e-news] Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 9-24-99 From: Rense E-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:24:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:35:03 -0400 Subject: [rense_e-news] Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 9-24-99 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Rense Weekly E-News ---------------------------------------------------------------- The Week Ahead 9-26-99 thru 10-2-99 Guests, Announcements, Week's Top Stories From sightings.com Jeff Rense E-News is distributed exclusively by Free Subscription. --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- * FROM JEFF'S DESK * I commonly get requests from people asking if they should bother reporting older UFO events. The answer is YES...to the National UFO Reporting Center or MUFON. Past sighting events are often like key pieces in a puzzle...they can sometimes make or break important data and can corroborate the sightings of others. Such substantiation can reassure eyewitnesses who may have been living in fear and denial for years over what they have seen. Here is a perfect example of an important older sighting which has just now appeared on the UFO Updates list: From E & G <anon6964@hushmail.com> From UFO UpDates-Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> 9-24-99 I wish to share an experience my wife and I had in late 1980's. It was one warm summer Friday around 10:00 PM in the evening in California's Santa Clarita Valley. I was brushing the swimming pool with a long pole and attached brush so that the kids could swim the following day. The pole requires you reach up to push down. I was standing on a high platform next to the pool and about 4 feet over the rest of the pool area. As I brushed, I saw a craft approaching the house from the West and heading South East. It was about one block away. I knew right away that it was not a helicopter or plane. It seemed flatter and with lights in a circumference of the main body. I ran towards the house and called my family to see it. Only my wife came out. By that time it was directly over our house and pool. It was approximately 75-100 feet above us. It made no sound whatsoever, and it was at a complete stop over us for about 40 seconds. The only motion was a slight wobble and when it moved downward at an angle. The craft was about 100 feet in diameter. It had small porthole and lights around it, was metallic and shiny. There was a dome above it and attached to the body. The under section had two rectangular shapes the length of the diameter. It rectangular shape was about 7-10 feet in width and as along as the craft. I also noticed ski like devices on the front and on each side of the window described in the following paragraph. The skis were like S shaped with the top of the S facing forward but with more angles that I cannot paint. Upon bending in a downward motion we could see a window or cockpit like glass. It was on the lower edge of the round craft. The window was approximately 4 feet in height and 12-15 feet in length. There was a reflection of soft orange and blue lights from the inside but we could not see anyone. It remained bent over for about 10 seconds. It was obvious we were being watched. As it was angled, I noticed that light was reflecting from the upper section that was not facing the swimming pool lights. Thus, it seemed to generate light through or from the skin of the craft as the lights that first attracted me faced forward and much lower than the upper section of the craft . My wife and I did not say anything to each other during the experience but she kept saying "oh my God" over and over again. The craft then left slowly at 30-40 MPH. I jumped on a wall around our property to continue seeing it for at least 7-miles. I instructed my wife not to discuss it, to draw what she saw and then we would compare drawings. They matched, although mine had more detail and accuracy. My background include Group Propulsion Systems and later as an executive with several major computer companies. I am providing a secondary E-mail to avoid having lots of E-mail sent to my wife's primary E-mail. We will be pleased to respond to serious correspondence on the subject. We are not only firmly convinced of the existence of interplanetary travels but also that the government has to hiding fact from the public. There is no way, that we can be the sole observers. I encourage all Americans to band together and utilize whatever legal recourse is available to force disclosure. What we saw was close, real, solid and a designed beautiful craft. I know from my aeronautical engineering background that mankind has no such technology. Regards, Ed & Gloria Towers --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- "Good timber does not grow with ease; the stronger the wind, the stronger the trees." J. Willard Marriott --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- EDITOR'S CORNER Three or so years ago, I was still fairly new to Texas with little idea of the political landscape. One day while working at a radio network, passing by our talk station's control room, there were a couple of gentlemen in there, neither had anything in their hands so I popped in to ask if they wanted a cup of coffee. I was instantly struck by the energy in the room. It came primarily from the man about to go on the air. It was a powerful, clean, good feeling energy -- the kind you want to soak up just a little. When I brought the coffee back, the simple sincerity and courtesy of the thank you was surprising. I felt like this very brief exchange had somehow enriched me, like I had been empowered, even though the thought seemed silly. I went to the desk to ask his identity. The name meant absolutely nothing to me: Ron Paul. I was not prepared for the answer I got when I asked his profession. He was.... a politician! Now, three years later, I am even more impressed with this man. If we could somehow bottle his ethics, his energy, his guts and his strong compassion for the "little guy", and give our other politicians a shot of it on a regular basis, this world would be so much closer to what we all yearn for. 'Freedom and justice for all' would be words with meaning. If you missed Ron Paul's letter posted on sightings last week, it's at: http://www.sightings.com/politics4/letcong.htm His other letters are just as strong -- and as inspiring. But even more than that, he backs them up with action. Jocelyn --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- The Immortal by J.J. Dewey FREE BOOK ONLINE - Enjoy. http://www.immunotex.com/books/immortal/ --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- * TOP STORIES * Just a few of last week's most intriguing! http://www.sightings.com * Contact Suddenly Lost With Newest Orbiting Mars Probe * World's Largest Single Gold Deposit Near East Timor * Sears New 'Trench Coat Mafia' Doll Yanked * Whoops - Humans Have Twice As Many Genes As First Thought * Ozone Hole Above Antarctic Opens Again * Could A Sun Superflare Sterilize Earth? * Scientists Claim They Can Reverse Menopause * Challenging UFO Secrecy - But Do We Want The Truth? * It Is Illegal To Collect Rain Water In Colorado * The Feminization Of Our Schools - Boys Pay A Heavy Price * One Year After Australia Gun Grab - Crime Rates Are Up * US Long Distance Phone Rate Deception Rampant * Fatigue - How To Know When To See A Doctor * Discoveries At Teotihuacan's Pyramid Unlock Ancient Mysteries * UFOs Through The Ages... A Timeline * Canadian Educator Dumped For Questioning Number Of Holocaust Victims * Smart Cards For The Holy City - Trial National ID Card? * Disney Exec Arrested In Underage Online Sex Sweep * Clinton Administration Covertly Trained Indonensian Military Units * Japan's New Gas-Electric 'Eco-Car' Coming To US * Fireball Or UFO? Dazzling Photo Of Strange Object * Pain-Tolerance Threshold Experimentation On Children * Ethnic Cleansing Against Serbs Flourishing In Kosovo * Y2K - Y2K - Unysis Says 8 Million US Computer Systems Will Fail * Y2K - 97% Federal Mission Critical Systems Now Compliant Read the entire text of these stories and more at http://www.sightings.com --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- HOLLOW PLANETS by Jan Lamprecht Scientists say all planets are solid. Could science be mistaken? This book is an in-depth review of many papers from science journals of the highest repute. It contains interviews with many top scientists in fields as diverse as seismology and astronomy. The results of this study will send your mind reeling. An absolutely tremendous book. 600+ pages! http://www.immunotex.com/books/agharta/ --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- * THIS WEEK'S GUESTS * 9-26-99 thru 10-1-99 (Please note Jeff's Guest schedule can change due to late breaking stories, etc) SUN 9-26 Dr. John Coleman: World In Review George Green: New ET Contact Information? MON 9-27 Bill Borst: Liberalism: Fatal Consequences Dr. Steven Greer: The Woolsey Controversy TUE 9-28 Graham Conway/UFO*BC: Canadian UFO Report Pending WED 9-29 Michael Lindemann: UFO/ET World Report Joan Veon: IMF Conference And Global Power THU 9-30 Ron Rockwell: Royal Raymond Rife's Last Machinist FRI 10-1 Geri Guidetti: Latest On GM Food Wars Skip Goebel: Y2K Alternative Energy Live Real Audio Broadcasts & Archives: http://www.sightings.com --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- Literature no serious UFO library should be with out: Pleiadian http://www.immunotex.com/books/pleiadian/marciniak.html Montauk http://www.immunotex.com/books/pleiadian/montauk.html Bill Cooper http://www.immunotex.com/books/cooper.html Sitchin http://www.immunotex.com/books/sitchin.html --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- * PROGRAM INFORMATION * Program Show Times Live Coast-To-Coast Monday-Friday 7-10pm Pacific 10-1am Eastern Sundays 8-11pm Pacific 11-2am Eastern Call in Line: 800 TRN 4123 Program Transcripts at http://www.immunotex.com/rense/ Sightings Artwork/Neff Galleries/Webmastering: http://www.anc.net/~neff/ Program Audio Tapes 888 456-4340 Live Real Audio Broadcasts & Archives http://www.sightings.com Advertising-Over 3 MILLION visitors to sightings.com each month Cost effective exposure for YOUR product or service mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net?Subject=Advertising Sightings.com info/email center http://www.sightings.com/1.mail/infocenter.html Jeff Rense Y2K RESOURCE CENTER http://www.sightings.com/y2kresource/y2k1r.html Discussion Forum http://www3.bravenet.com/forum/show.asp?userid=hj135985 Free Greeting Cards featuring the artwork of James Neff: http://www.immunotex.com/rense/cards/cards.html --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- Share with your friends! Please feel free to forward this issue of the Jeff Rense Weekly E-Newsletter to any and all who are interested... but please forward in its entirety and do not modify it in any fashion without permission. Thank you! Past issues are archived at http://www.immunotex.com/rense/ ------------------------- To subscribe: http://www.immunotex.com/rense/rense800/subscribe-form.htm or mailto:rense_e-groups-subscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe: mailto:rense_e-news-unsubscribe@egroups.com -------------------------- Jeff Rense Weekly E-News is independently produced by ImmunoTex in cooperation with Jeff Rense. The material and views expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of Jeff Rense, sightings.com, or the Jeff Rense - Sightings Radio Program, except for the *From Jeff's Desk* segment. --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- We thank eGroups for providing this tremendous service to us. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 'Return to Dreamland' From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 03:41:07 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:37:20 -0400 Subject: 'Return to Dreamland' 'Return to Dreamland' (Follow up to ITV documentary about Area 51) Source. 'alt.ufo.reports'. ITV is a British channel. Stig *** From: "Smiffy" <smiffy@eidosnet.co.uk> Newsgroups: alt.ufo.reports Subject: Return to Dreamland Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:30:11 +0100 Organization: [posted via Eidosnet] ITV tonight 24th September 11.30pm Return to Dreamland Follow up to the documentary about Area 51.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:00:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:40:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >From: Bruce Maccabee >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:59:09 -0400 >Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:33:29 -0400 >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:55:52 -0500 >>From: Terry Evans >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Previously, Bruce had offered: >>Ed's photos were color Polaoid pictures. There were no "first >>generation negs" unless you mean negs from which other prints >>were made. (Andrus made the negs from which the prints were >>made that Hyzer worked with.) ><snip> Hello, Bruce... I've been following this debate from the side lines, waiting for someone to ask the most obvious question regarding the Gulf Breeze photos. Instead, there has been an endless and unnecessary attack on Dr. Maccabee and others within the UFO community by Mr. Evans. (It saddens me to no end that I share the same last name with someone so myopic). However, at the risk of opening another can of worms, I'll post what I consider the most obvious problem that comes to my mind: Color Polaroid film (the 60 second, peel off kind) has a miserably slow ASA rating of about 85, I believe. Even the 400 ASA black and white film is pretty useless in low light since the lens is very slow and there is a small bellows factor to consider when using the larger format Polaroid. I cannot imagine a more useless format for any kind of night time photography, particularly hand held photography. The fact that a time exposure would probably be necessary as well as the stationary mounting for such long exposures on a tripod would suggest to me that any night time Gulf Breeze photo would be suspect (particularly if it were sharp!). At this point, I must admit that I am not as familiar with the GB photos as Dr. Macabee. Bruce, do you know if all the shots were produced on Polaroid film? If so, was a reason given? If the photos were taken over the course of several evenings, I can't imagine continuing documentation with a crappy Polaroid when a 35mm would have certainly been available and well worth the implementation. On the other hand, it has been mentioned elsewhere that the use of a Polaroid was suppose to prevent any kind of camera trickery. This is absolutely untrue. Polaroid made a terrific copy stand specifically for "peel off" Polaroids. It had a special bracket to center the camera over the Polaroid to be copied as well as a close up lens. This sort of device would have made "in camera" double exposures and other photographic tricks child's play. The copies made using this unit were remarkable good considering the limitations of the format. Lastly, you offered: >Anyway, Oechsler had to set up lights correctly to minimize or >eliminate this glare or else the copy would have light images on >it that were _not_ on the original. >The same goes for focus. You can't change the focus of the >original. But you don't want the copies to be in worse focus >(fuzzier) than the original. >Again I say, the attempt is to get the most faithful >reproduction and to add nothing (or as little as possible). This >is not easy. Just ask your local photo expert. I agree with everything you say above except how difficult it is to make a good copy neg. If fact, it's so easy that most one hour labs offer this service for peanuts. Further more, beyond cleaning the Polaroid for specks that might have stuck to the emulsion, there is nothing remotely difficult in make copy negs; either in 35mm or even (as mentioned above) on more Polaroid film. And one more thing. Polaroid did make (and still does, I think) a "peel off" neg pack that would leave a printable, transparent negative for use on an enlarger. To my knowledge this material was generally available anywhere Polaroid film was sold, though I can't speak for the Gulf Breeze area, since I don't live there. Ultimately, all this all comes down to the most obvious question: Considering the limitations of Polaroid material, why was it used for such important documentation and how were its limitations overcome to produce rapidly shot UFO photos, presumably hand held? Perhaps you can add some insight to this. Take care, Roger (the kinder, gentler) Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 'Florida Today' To Web-Publish 'Contact' Section From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 04:37:40 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:48:57 -0400 Subject: 'Florida Today' To Web-Publish 'Contact' Section Source: http://www.flatoday.com:80/space/today/092499d.htm Stig *** FLORIDA TODAY Space Online "Planet Earth's best source for online space news" Sept. 24, 1999 'FLORIDA TODAY' to publish 'Contact' section in newspaper, on the Web; experts to discuss search for alien life ** FLORIDA TODAY On Sunday, Oct. 17, FLORIDA TODAY will publish a special 40-page section called CONTACT that will examine the question "Is there life elsewhere in the universe?" The special section also will be availabe on Space Online at www.floridatoday.com/space As a follow-up to the section, FLORIDA TODAY will host a Community Conversation on Tuesday, Oct. 19 at the Brevard Community College Bernard Simpkins Theater, located on the Cocoa campus. The public forum will begin at 7 p.m. and feature three of the world's leading experts on the search for life beyond Earth. The panelists are: o Dr. Seth Shostek, director of the SETI Institute, which is using radio telescopes to search deep space for signs of intelligent alien civilizations. o Dr. Charles A. Beichman, director of NASA's Origin Program, which is using the Hubble Space Telescope and robot probes to search for extraterrestrial life. o Norman Haynes, former director of NASA's Mars Exploration Program, which is hunting for evidence of past or present life on the Red Planet. Each panelist will discuss their research and then take questions from the audience. The forum will be an opportunity for the public to discuss one of the key scientific issues of the 21st century. For more information, contact John J. Glisch, special projects editor, (407) 242-3968. Use of this site signifie s your agreemen t to the Terms of Service updated February 1998. Please e-mail comments or questions about this page to Space Online Editor Mark DeCotis. Contact Space Online Manager Jim Banke to inquire about becoming a sponsor. This World Wide Web site is copyright � 1999 FLORIDA TODAY.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:24:26 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:17:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees Stig Agermose writes: >Source: "alt.alien.visitors". >I don't buy the conspiracy part, but Winston really needs to >re-think its ad policy. >Stig >*** >From: Mark Shippey <kprinter@dfw.nationwide.net> >Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors >Subject: Winston cigarette ad slams abductees >Date: 24 Sep 1999 02:37:37 GMT >In a publication called the Fort Worth Weekly, Winston, the >tobacco company is running an advertisement insulting abductees >and aliens. I quote.... >"If aliens are smart enough > to travel through space, > why do they keep abducting the > dumbest people on earth?" I've seen this dumb ad, too. The obvious hypocrisy (smokers being one of the stupidest demographics I know) is pretty appalling. Mac Tonnies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:21:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:32:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET> >Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:27:46 +0100 Tim Wrote: >Given the over one hundred years of family experience in RAF >matters, some at a very high level, how come none of them heard >about UFOs and cover-ups? Hi All & Tim, Maybe it was on a need to know basis. I do know certain sections of the military are briefed on UFOs......no big deal all part of the make up! Roy.. Keep Smiling
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:26:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:42:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees >Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:06:55 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >Subject: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees Hello, all, Stig >Source: "alt.alien.visitors". >I don't buy the conspiracy part, but Winston really needs to >re-think its ad policy. >Stig >*** As if smoking their product was particlarly intelligent. >From: Mark Shippey <kprinter@dfw.nationwide.net> >Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors >Subject: Winston cigarette ad slams abductees >Date: 24 Sep 1999 02:37:37 GMT >In a publication called the Fort Worth Weekly, Winston, the >tobacco company is running an advertisement insulting abductees >and aliens. I quote.... >"If aliens are smart enough > to travel through space, > why do they keep abducting the > dumbest people on earth?" Weeky Word News Headline: "Fort Worth Advertising Agency;'Aliens are Abucting our best!' " >Can you believe it? This company manages to insult both the >Greys and the abductees in the same sentence. And they are >running this ad in various publications. And I'll bet this ad >was designed by some smart ass yuppie mid level ad executive who >really thinks he/she is cute. >They are making light of The Horrible Truth of the Alien >Invasion. I think this is The Conspiracy and their >multi-national flunkeys trying to help the world let its guard >down. >But They can't fool us. No they can't but I'm convinced that all the conspiriacies cancel each other out and, the main factor being Human folly. if the aliens(notice small case) were running or at least influencing the show things wouldn't be the muddled mess they are now. Events would be either/or ; Heaven or Hell:nothing left to speculate. GT McCoy- member of the Fallen Planet Conspiracy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:32:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:44:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:34:38 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 99 22:33:51 PDT <snip> >Her name is Kimberly Blair. The articles are in the Pennsacola >Independent Weekly. July 8, 1999. Vol.1, No.2. Its quite a >lengthy article. 6 pages. >Briefly she says that shortly after Walters claims of seeing >UFOs she joined the paper. She was open to the possibility of >ET life. A colleagues of hers, Diane Hansen (no relation to >Walters aka Hanson) had been writing about the UFOs in Gulf >Breeze but had stopped writing about them because she thought >they were hoaxed. "When she spoke out, she got harassing, even >threatening, phone calls. So fearing for her safety and her >children's, she went silent."> >No doubt these are some of the reports Dr. Maccabees uses in his >statistics for sightings in Gulf Breeze. >Is this enough for you? No doubt? The only way to find out is for her to identify which reports were "stars" and which were hoaxes, etc. I have copies of all the Sentinel newspaper reports at the time so all she has to do is name it or them I and can compare with my statistics.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:37:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:47:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:34:58 -0400 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 02:34:41 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 ><snip> >>>I also got 5 photographs that were taken with a telephoto lens >>>of fixed focal length. (500mm at f/11 using 400 ASA 35mm >>>color Kodak film. The camera body was an old Pentax 35mm >>>SLR) >>>When I shot the photos the object had moved away from its >>>stationary position, (directly overhead) and I also got several >>>nearby TV antenna tines into the pix.> <snip> Bruce wrote: >John, if you don't mind being the "guinea pig" for this >investigation, I would like to point out to onlooklers, >kibitzers, skeptics, etc., that this is the procedure I always >follow for UFO analysis. The witness has to be cooperative and >do experiments which I can't do because I don't have the camera. >(In some cases, e.g. Gulf Breeze, I do get access to the camera >and carry out these experiments myself.) I can do what you ask myself or send you the equipment. Your call. I'll get started doing the tests anyway. If you want to test my cameras yourself all you have to do is let me know. >Also, John, I would appreciate it if you could post the mos >complete description of the sighting (sighting history) that you >can). Okay. I'll try to have it in Errol's hands by Monday. >Now, John, be patient with me. Do the same optical test with >your video camera and zoom from minimum to maximum and hold at >maximum for at least a few seconds while focused on the >yardstick at some (large) number of feet to that the yardstick >fits into the field of view. Be sure the ends of the yardstick >are clearly visible (can be held at the center) against whatever >the backgroud happens to be. Hmm, I may have to shoot it all out of doors. (Because the camera lens is 500mm and the videocam magnifies to 24X) I own a small one family house (ala Archie Bunker) in Queens so I'll just have to do the best I can in terms of backgrounds out of doors. I'll make sure there is enough contrast so the objects are clearly seen. >Now please be warned: by being so bold and brash as to publish >your sighting and request analysis you have made yourself >"guilty by photography" (phrase coined by Ed Walters). :) >You will be tried in a public court with cyber-tomatoes being >thrown by skeptics until we get this sighting _explained_! Tomatoes will be most welcome change after the pelting with 'watermelons' I've taken for coming out as an abductee! <lol> >Rules To Avoid Being Attacked By Skeptics: >UFOs don't exist so, if you see one, >A) Don't Look >B) If you looked (bad boy!) don't photograph >C) If you (gulp) photographed, don't video >D) If you (horrors) did look, video and photo >Don't Tell _Anyone_! LMAO! I'll get started on all of this immediately Bruce. Thanx. Regards, John Velez ________________________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net ABDUCTION INFORMATION CENTER http://www.if-aic.com/ "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:48:50 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:29:44 -0400 Subject: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? Dear Errol and List, both gentle and violent; The very first time I saw a meteor, I heard it! It was in the Adirondack Mountains, where I spent most of my summers, and I was a very little Gesundt. I was sitting outside of our cabin on a cliff overlooking Lake George, with a sky chock full of stars. It was a very clear night and the time of year was mid August, about 1955. What we saw was most definitely a meteor, it streaked across maybe 10 or 15 degrees of sky, made the correct trail and left the right amount of debris slightly behind. But the fascinating thing was that I heard a sound which lasted during the time the meteor was at maximum burn. It sounded a little like (to me, anyway) a loud buzzing sound. By the by, it was not a low altitude, as the burn was relatively horizontal, therefore appearing to remain in the high atmosphere. My dad and mom were there and saw the meteor but heard not a peep from it, just from me. "Did you hear that?!?" At the time, there were others in the little cabin park who also saw the meteor. These numbered about 10 or so families. But no one heard it and all thought little Gesundt had already invented Gripple and was drinking either it, or gramps homemade Acquatta. Acquatta is the second squeezing of the grape with a touch of other stuff... fruit, berries, eye of newt, whatever. They didn't. This began a very heated argument with my dad who to this day thinks I imagined it. However about ten or fifteen years ago, I read an article in either the Tuesday NY Times or Time magazine, about some people being able to hear meteors. It had something to do with the EM frequencies which may be generated during entry and burn-up. Anyone out there understand the theory? It's been nagging at me for 45 years and my father (age 87) is still on my back about that incident. We don't talk about my other experiences. It makes his blood clot! Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Patrick V. Reavis <preavis@ro.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:47:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:33:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Fri, 24 Sep 99 09:51:15 PDT >>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:48:39 -0500 >>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Mr. Evans (with apologies to patient and gentle listfolk): ><snip> >Too bad, but I'm not surprised that you'd stand by baseless >charges. If you weren't that sort of guy, you wouldn't have >made them in the first place. All I can say is that, knowing >the individuals (including myself) a hell of a lot better than >you do, I know you're wrong. Even, it appears, maliciously >wrong. You sought to trash the characters -- with no evidence >at all except your own unsupported opinion -- of those who >disagree with you, rather than to address their arguments, which >is always much more difficult to do. To do the latter, you >might even be forced to think, or to educate yourself on such >demanding subjects as optical physics and photoanalysis. >Yours is the cheapest sort of ad hominem strategy, and it gives >me no reason to think well of you. You're precisely the sort of >person who's poisoned the well of ufological discourse between, >or so I think in my worst moments, redemption. Thank God that >gentlemen like Bruce Maccabee have not been driven out of this >field entirely. So long as they remain, there is some hope, >however small, that civil discourse may survive. Jerry, One cannot hit another with a skunk, and not get stuck with the stink. Your attempts to stand against to Mr. Evan's character assassinations are indeed laudable, but in the long run will prove unproductive. Still, I applaud your efforts. I don't recall the source of this quote or the exact wording, but; "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig." -- Regards, Patrick V. Reavis http://ro.com/~preavis http://ro.com/~preavis/Quiz
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 99 10:57:43 PDT Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:36:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:34:38 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 99 22:33:51 PDT >>>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:14:35 -0500 >>>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:31:54 -0600 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>From: Don Allen <dona@amigo.net> >>>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:43:56 -0400 >>>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>>>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>>>>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>>>>>Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>>>>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT >>Patient and gentle listfolk: >>>And speaking of jokes. I recently read an article by a woman who >>>was on the staff of the newspaper down there when it was all >>>going on. She claims that she and another woman knew Walters and >>>the editor... what was his name?... were pulling a hoax and she >>>claimed that she was told by the editor to make sightings of >>>non-UFOs into UFOs to keep the hysteria going. >>Now, let me get this straight. Isn't Evans the same guy who was >>just trashing somebody for taking "anecdotal evidence" >>seriously? I guess one standard applies to him, another to >>everybody with whom he disagrees. The above doesn't even rise >>to "anecdotal evidence." "Unverified rumor" is a lot closer. >>But hey, if you're trashing somebody, unverified rumors will do. >>Jerry Clark >Her name is Kimberly Blair. The articles are in the Pennsacola >Independent Weekly. July 8, 1999. Vol.1, No.2. Its quite a >lengthy article. 6 pages. >Is this enough for you? Patient and gentle listfolk: I rest my case. This doesn't even rise to the level of "anecdotal evidence" -- and remember, our correspondent was trashing somebody the other day for taking that sort of thing seriously. Here, lacking even anecdotal evidence (i.e., specific reports by individuals who seem credible and whose claims are investigatable), the reporter is reduced to passing on vague rumors and complains that Cook and Walters don't behave as she would under the circumstance. I am not impressed; nor should any onlooker who knows anything at all about what constitutes evidence. I am perfectly prepared to believe that the Gulf Breeze photographs and stories associated with Walters are bogus. In fact, I have long believed they are exactly that. But if all I had was the flimsy nonevidence in this newspaper story, I
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 Alfred's Odd Ode #318 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:33:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:37:53 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #318 Apology to MW #318 (For September 25, 1999) There's not enough time to accomplish our will -- with a factor of five and we'd take more time still. So, what do we pack into moments and hours that fill up our lives with a truth that empowers? Much that we treasure and value retreats, and is lost, or it fades -- becomes less than complete? What have we gained as we stack our possessions? What do we pile but death -- its precession. And what do we have but the gods of the *man* to complicate faith that we don't understand? What do we have but corroded philosophy, tinged by elitists and fraught with hypocrisy. Kings (and their priests) hide their smirks behind hands that are richly appointed as they wave dark commands, and we are mere pawns in the struggle for power, yes, _stolen_ from those who have heated their water! Where is the justice in truth not forthcoming? Where do the *charlatans* _actually_ hide? Where will the fairness begin its faint drumming so faint but yet heard in a truth it confides? When will the Earth, _then_, begin its renewal? When will the great be concerned for the small? When will the answers provoke the next question that's answered in TURN minus spin, dodge, or stall! When do we start to _respect_ individuals? When do we give up predictable drones? When do we turn from our sad acquisitions, and tear these *pretenders* from scurrilous thrones? When do we pay down our perilous debt? When do we clean up the mess that we've kept? When do we stop all the meanness we make, and try the compassion we earnestly fake? Why do the saucers continue to plague us? Why are they seen in our day and night skies? Why do they tease us (or shame us!) with sightings so damned inconclusive -- I'd want to know why! And it's not just a murmur of pique from some whacko, my interests are sane, they are cited -- declared! The challenges _challenged_ remain SO unchallenged; it's an ominous silence, and we should beware! Issues have answers that we're not receiving. We're too distracted with the things we can buy. Stuff that is wasteful, cross purposed, and hateful is what is served up so conveniently sly. With a grasp that is firm on the ring in your nose, _they_ are not chained by the rules they impose. Lords of *their* manors, ordained by *their* gods, you step off and fetch it when they give the nod. Forget contributions that you have been making to nebulous groups that just steer for _themselves_. They are the sum of their maximized profits defined by the way they can buy you to sell. What are you _now_ but a cog in their wheel, and fretting through days with your nights so unreal -- tossing and turning and feeling the dread of the earthquakes and windstorms to vex you in bed . . . Tell me I'm crazy, a certified loony to have studied the things that I do -- as I have. Tell me the saucers that show up (so plainly) will only show up in a head that's gone bad. Call me a whacko -- bereft of my senses. Assign me a spot far away in the fringes. Dismiss me as "woo-woo", bricks shy of your *load*. A conspiracy nut you engage just to goad. But answer my questions, address my concerns, and put out this _fire_ that rages and burns. Give me the facts, *sir*, though heaven's brought down, and the kings and their priests become jesters and clowns. Lehmberg@snowhill.com A corrosively consequential coterie of non-context clowns will have a bonny day with this -- no doubt. Clowns so predictably circumspect to avoid, assiduously, the issues that I've raised are the psychopaths of the middle ages made real in the late Twentieth Century. They employ the same arguments of old, these true misanthropes, laughing at the homeless, and cheering Cathy Lee as they celebrate the rape of the planet --pretending they're alone and unobserved as far as their rheumy eyes can see. They begin to feel a hot breath on their dirty necks . . . Restore John Ford! -- Visit a Virtual Art Gallery in Cyberspace! Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more. Consider Matter, Mind & Movement. See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration. Take a ride in the Teleporter and check the inexplicable. EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL. http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ **<Updated 25 September>** http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- Send your checks and money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at: 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:56:28 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:41:11 -0400 Subject: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights Dear Errol and List: I wrote a post on being able to hear a meteor. Today I would like to describe some recent "sightings" of truly unknown objects to the list. I am interested in whether others have seen such, and if anyone has any idea as to what they may be. Swamp gas theories and pelican explanations (which include geese) are not acceptable, please... thank you. In the evening hours, before full dark, I've seen what look like extremely bright objects, points of light, pure white (no visible color) and about magnitude zero to negative one. The objects shoot across 20 to 30 degrees of sky, appear to be far away, and (sometimes) zig zag during the time they are visible. They leave no discernable trail, make no sound, just appear and disappear. And they move extremely rapidly. The time they take to traverse 20 degrees is less than a second. On one or two occasions these "objects" appeared to be close but I had no way of making this determination, near or far, there was no perspective, nothing to use as a reference of distance, just my gut feeling. They always appear in an area of clear sky, not near trees or buildings or any other structures. Also, for those of you who are of the insectoid, aviary or gaseous religions, the fire fly season was over more than a month ago. I am quite serious about this and my previous post on being able to "hear" meteors. This is not a Grippled Gesundt writing. Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees From: Bruno Mancusi <Bruno.Mancusi@com.mcnet.ch> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:46:43 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:42:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees >Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:06:55 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >Subject: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees I have seen another ad on abductees, for Ericsson. It was on 18 September in a theater here, in Switzerland, before Polanski's movie 'The Ninth Gate'. A man is abducted and the aliens find on him an Ericsson cellular phone. An alien says something like: "How can so stupid a being have a so advanced technology?". Bruno
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 26 AREA 51 Alibi From: BBB1954@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 02:38:44 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:19:28 -0400 Subject: AREA 51 Alibi [Non Subscriber Post] AREA 51 MAKES FOR A POOR ALIBI You've all heard of the Air Force's ultra-high-security, super-secret base in Nevada, known simply as "Area 51?" Well, late one afternoon, the Air Force folks out at Area 51 were very surprised to see a Cessna landing at their "secret" base. They immediately impounded the aircraft and hauled the pilot into an interrogation room. The pilot's story was that he took off from Vegas, got lost, and spotted the Base just as he was about to run out of fuel. The Air Force started a full FBI background check on the pilot and held him overnight during the investigation. By the next day, they were finally convinced that the pilot really was lost and wasn't a spy. They gassed up his airplane, gave him a terrifying "you-did-not-see-a-base" briefing, complete with threats of spending the rest of his life in prison, told him Vegas was that-a-way on such-and-such a heading, and sent him on his way. The next day, to the total disbelief of the Air Force, the same Cessna showed up again. Once again, the MP's surrounded the plane... only this time there were two people in the plane. The same pilot jumped out and said, "Do anything you want to me, but my wife is in the plane and you have to tell her where I was last night!" Source: Steve Meredith and the Unidentified Funny Object
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 26 [SO] Jim Keith (AKA Commander X) 1949 - 1999 From: Louise A. Lowry <SHnSASSY1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:00:14 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:29:27 -0400 Subject: [SO] Jim Keith (AKA Commander X) 1949 - 1999 From: Robalini@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:20:55 EDT To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: Konformist: Jim Keith (AKA Commander X) 1949 - 1999 Please send as far and wide as possible. Thanks, Robert Sterling Editor, The Konformist http://www.konformist.com http://www.konformist.com/1999/jkeith.htm Jim Keith 1949 - 1999 As some of you know, James Keith broke his leg at Burning Man, stepping off of a three-foot stage. Thinking it was just a severe sprain, he went home and tried to sleep it off. Realizing the next morning it was more, he went to Washoe Medical and was to be treated for a broken knee. This was to involve surgery, but was delayed due to a problem with kidney function. On Tuesday, September 7th, he was in good spirits, but worried about the thought of being put under. He is quoted by a friend as saying, "I have this feeling that if they put me under I'm not coming back" That night, Jim Keith went in for his surgery, and around 8:10 PM, a blood clot released from his leg went to his lung and he passed away. James leaves behind two daughters Aerika (13) and Verity (15). Jim Keith's Big Secret Robert Sterling Now that Jim Keith has passed away, one of his secrets can be revealed: Jim Keith was Commander X. Well, not completely: Commander X, the author of a group of spooky books dealing with subjects ranging from Tesla free energy, the Philadelphia Experiment, and alien overlords who rule our society, was actually a pen name for various authors. Keith was one of them: Timothy Beckley is another. The irony, of course, is that in one of his last articles (a review of David Icke's "The Biggest Secret," written for The Konformist), Keith claims that "Icke's new book is a classic at that odd edge of literature inhabited by people like Bill Cooper, Commander X, Al Bielek, George Andrews, and a flock of others; folks who have a decided talent for making money, but have to ask others to tie their shoes for them." The irony is even more delicious, because secretly Keith admired Bill Cooper's unique style and ability to cause a controversy. In any case, now may be a good time to read some of the entertaining works of Commander X again, or for a first time if you haven't already. Many in the conspiracy field have long believed that Commander X was some sort of fascist Nazi propaganda, where good light-skinned aliens battle evil, large-nosed alien monsters. When looking at the work as satire rather than a disinformation vehichle, however, Commander X is quite a hoot. Books by Jim Keith The Octopus : The Secret Government and Death of Danny Casolaro (co-authored with Kenn Thomas) Black Helicopters over America: Strikeforce for the New World Order Black Helicopters II: The Endgame Strategy Casebook on Alternative 3: UFOs, Secret Societies, and World Control Casebook on the Men in Black The Gemstone File Mind Control, World Control Okbomb!: Conspiracy and Cover-Up Saucers of the Illuminati (originally written under the name Jay Katz) Secret and Suppressed: Banned Ideas and Hidden History Books by Commander X: The Controllers: The Hidden Rulers of Earth Identified Nikola Tesla: Free Energy and the White Dove Philadelphia Experiment Chronicles Time Travel: A How-To Insiders Guide Underground Alien Bases JIM KEITH, HONORED FRIEND, 1949-1999 Kenn Thomas Thank you to all who have sent kind words about Jim Keith. He was a dear friend of mine and an important person to the world. The loss is immeasurable. He was not just the co-author of The Octopus, but a dharma combatant who demonstrated time and again that the world is far more multi-dimensional, far more interesting, than the pablum that usually passes for news, information and normal discourse. Unfortunately, it is also far more dangerous. Rumor has it that Jim may have been killed because he mentioned the name of the physician who declared Diana was pregnant at the time of her death. I have long noted the connections between Diana's death and the Octopus. Diana was the subject of Jim's last column for Nitro News, which has been linked via Jim's photograph above for the past couple of weeks. Nitro News has not been accessible since Jim's death, although I reached it just before receiving word of his passing. This rumor may be nonsense. Casolaro may have committed suicide. It is the way of the Octopus. It exists but it doesn't exist. These are blood clots or suicides or non-suspicious homicides or real accidents. They just happen to cluster coincidentally around a certain set of facts or a certain perception of an organized conspiracy. And if Jim Keith did not die as a result of a conspiracy, then I'm sure he would want us to make it look that way! I hope all will remember Jim Keith for his good humor and for his fearlessness. He wrote what he knew and he let the chips fall where they might. He lived on the edge, where I usually tried to catch up with him. I hope he taught me enough about the place to keep up the work to which we were both committed. If word comes of public services for Jim, I will pass it on. I have tentative plans to go to Reno and investigate what happened while the trails are still fresh. This will take money, though, and as with Jim and Danny Casolaro both, that's always in short supply, despite the romanticized view many people have of well-paid, world traveling writers and researchers. I urge anyone with information to contact me directly at kennthomas@umsl.edu. We'll do whatever research work we can from our desks and get as much field work done as possible. I have sent inquiries to Burning Man, where Jim broke his knee leading to the surgery and the blood clot that ended his life, and know one source who took a great deal of video there. Also, several of Jim's friends have expressed an interest in putting together a memorial volume of essays. Check back with Steamshovel for news of this project as it develops. Thank you again. Remember Jim! Kenn Thomas 9.17.99 Jim Keith's Last Fall If you're an investigative journalist who's lately publicly addressed some fairly "warm" recent conspiracies, we would STRONGLY advise that you be EXTREMELY careful NOT to have a relatively minor fall which might result in a bruise serious enough for you to desire medical advice/attention. If you DO incur such a bruise (or any other condition needing medical attention), we would STRONGLY advise seeking care from a KNOWN and TRUSTED practitioner ONLY. You wouldn't want a "blood clot" from the impacted area to go to your lungs and kill you instantly, a one-in-a-trillion possibility (if that), which mysteriously and MOST UNFORTUNATELY purportedly occurred in the case of the late Jim Keith. Within the past few weeks the well-known and well-respected Keith, via the Internet's "Nitro News" organization, had published articles which showed how the airplane "crash" which took the lives of JFK Jr., wife and sister-in-law last July was in fact caused by sabotage by means of an explosive device; and also that the similarly "engineered", scripted "accident" which took the life of Princess Diana 2 years ago was implemented at that time because Diana was pregnant. Not long after these articles were published, Jim Keith incurred a minor leg injury for which he sought medical attention at a nearby hospital. This medical attention resulted in Jim Keith's death. During this same period of time the Nitro News website inexplicably went down for several days. To our knowledge no credible explanation has yet been put forth for this. This all seems, to say the least, suspicious. John Quinn/NewsHawk Inc. hawknews@workmail.com If you are interested in a free subscription to The Konformist Newswire, please visit http://www.eGroups.com/list/konformist/ and sign up. Or, e-mail konformist-subscribe@egroups.com with the subject: "I NEED 2 KONFORM!!!" (Okay, you can use something else, but it's a kool catch phrase.) Visit the Klub Konformist at Yahoo!: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/klubkonformist ~~~~~Louise A. Lowry~~~~~ "World Of The Strange Weekly Newsletter" <A HREF="http://www.jb-graphics.com/thestrange/">World Of The Strange</A> <A HREF="http://www.tje.net/services/maillists/wots.htm">World of the Strange List ControlPanel</A> This site is a simple control panel for subscribing and unsubscribing from the World Of The Strange Weekly Newsletter! <A HREF="http://www.tje.net/services/maillists/para-discuss.htm">Paranormal Discussion ListControl Panel</A> This is a very simple control panel for a Discussion List called Para-Discuss which WOTS along with Paranormal Research Primer CO-moderates, very good articles and information flows on this list. All Articles and Comments Are Welcomed! Primary e-mail address ShnSassy1@aol.com Also you can contact me at SHNSASSY@prodigy.net "Tis Strange-but true; For truth is always strange; Stranger than fiction!" **************************** Please visit the Skywatch International Inc. website at http://home.earthlink.net/~skywatcher22
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:50:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:49:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:48:50 EDT >Subject: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >To: updates@globalserve.net >Dear Errol and List, both gentle and violent; >The very first time I saw a meteor, I heard it! It was in the >Adirondack Mountains, where I spent most of my summers, and I >was a very little Gesundt. I was sitting outside of our cabin on >a cliff overlooking Lake George, with a sky chock full of stars. >It was a very clear night and the time of year was mid August, >about 1955. <snipped> >Anyone out there understand the theory? It's been nagging at me >for 45 years and my father (age 87) is still on my back about >that incident. We don't talk about my other experiences. It >makes his blood clot! I was out in the morning an hour before dawn on a school day, watching the sky. I thought something had plopped into my highly prized Southern Pecan coffee, an insect or singularly accurate bit of bat guano. I looked up into the sky about 45 degrees thinking about bats, and insects, and dear wasted coffee beans -- and what I saw made me forget all about coffee of any stripe! Right _in_ my line of sight appeared a hot white streak, about a foot long held at arms length -- a thought-quick burning plunge of incandescent meteor, top left to bottom right, a thirty degree from horizontal slash of white hot living strobe! Now the meteor in itself was astonishing -- but what made me forget my cup was what occurred immediately after. In the wake of that meteor, and on brilliant, glorious, and violet tinged FIRE was a momentary string of visibly churning, interior lighted thunderstorms laid end to end like the length of a squirming, glowing serpent -- the upper atmosphere set to torrid FLAMES by the friction of the penetrating meteor. And then�<and then!>-- so faint that it was almost lost in the soft sounds of a lower Alabama pre dawn... a small but earth shaking series of thumps of the meteor's passage... I exclaimed an out loud, very serious "wow", took a good slug from my coffee cup�,and remembered the bat guano -- <A-heh> I kept it down, but got some fresh coffee, and thought about sounds from a coffee cup that stop movement, and compel a person to look, just so, into a starry, starry pre dawn sky. But for the sound in my coffee cup I would have missed the entire spectacle of the *stuff* that I live for. Lehmberg@snowhill.com -- Visit a Virtual Art Gallery in Cyberspace! Ponder the Wit & Wisdom of Ching Chow! View "Unstill Life" -- Animation . . . and more. Consider Matter, Mind & Movement. See the current HTML "Apology to MW" with illustration. Take a ride in the Teleporter and check the inexplicable. EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL. http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ **<Updated 18 September>** http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- Send your checks and money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg (cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at: 304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: GT MCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:26:24 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:52:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:48:50 EDT >Subject: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >To: updates@globalserve.net Hello, all Jim, Dr. Gesunt >The very first time I saw a meteor, I heard it! It was in the >Adirondack Mountains, where I spent most of my summers, and I >was a very little Gesundt. I was sitting outside of our cabin on >a cliff overlooking Lake George, with a sky chock full of stars. >It was a very clear night and the time of year was mid August, >about 1955. >What we saw was most definitely a meteor, it streaked across >maybe 10 or 15 degrees of sky, made the correct trail and left >the right amount of debris slightly behind. But the fascinating >thing was that I heard a sound which lasted during the time the >meteor was at maximum burn. It sounded a little like (to me, >anyway) a loud buzzing sound. I've heard it too, along with the Aurora Borialis - back in times B.T.(before tinnitus) - too many years flying airplanes. >By the by, it was not a low altitude, as the burn was relatively >horizontal, therefore appearing to remain in the high >atmosphere. >My dad and mom were there and saw the meteor but heard not a >peep from it, just from me. "Did you hear that?!?" At the >time, there were others in the little cabin park who also saw >the meteor. These numbered about 10 or so families. But no one >heard it and all thought little Gesundt had already invented >Gripple and was drinking either it, or gramps homemade Acquatta. >Acquatta is the second squeezing of the grape with a touch of >other stuff... fruit, berries, eye of newt, whatever. It was my father who pointed out you could hear meteors break up, along with the "singing" of Auroras. >They didn't. This began a very heated argument with my dad who >to this day thinks I imagined it. However about ten or fifteen >years ago, I read an article in either the Tuesday NY Times or >Time magazine, about some people being able to hear meteors. It >had something to do with the EM frequencies which may be >generated during entry and burn-up. Proably why one could "hear Auroras". >Anyone out there understand the theory? It's been nagging at me >for 45 years and my father (age 87) is still on my back about >that incident. We don't talk about my other experiences. It >makes his blood clot! You know my pap would've understood - My Dear Mother however..... GT MCoy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: The Skeptical Believer From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:23:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:11:32 -0400 Subject: Re: The Skeptical Believer >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: The Skeptical Believer >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 99 10:27:05 PDT >>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:59:14 -0400 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>Subject: Re: The Skeptical Believer >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net> >>>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: The Skeptical Believer >>>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:50:02 -0500 >Patient and gentle listfolk: >>>One of the most famous series of photos was taken off the coast >>>of Brazil - it shows an object like a flattened Saturn, a very >>>definite saucerlike anomaly. It sounded good at first and looks >>>good too - there were supposedly dozens of other witnesses besides >>>the photographer, according to the Brazilian papers. <snip> >>>But the main reason to doubt this famous photo is simply that >>>the photographer turned out to be someone who was well known for >>>trick photography, including double exposures; and he was >>>someone who'd been involved in faking UFO photos before. . >>He's referring to the Brazilian Navy sighting with photographer >>Baruna over Trindade Island. I gather that he hasn't really >>studied this sighting, just parroted skeptical comments by >>Menzel et al. <snip> >In the four decades since the Trindade pictures were taken, no >evidence has emerged to suggest they are bogus. It is simply >dishonest to pretend otherwise. Thanks for your comments. Sure would be nice if the Brazilian gov't would finally allow the original negatives to be examined. Modern analysis techniques might turn up new info. Also, it would seem the Brazilian ufologists ought to be able to locate other witnesses on the ship even at this late date.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:03:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:31:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:00:53 -0500 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net> >Subject: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Bruce Maccabee >>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:59:09 -0400 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:33:29 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos Dear KAGE: (Kinder And Gentler Evans) You wrote: >Color Polaroid film (the 60 second, peel off kind) has a >miserably slow ASA rating of about 85, I believe. Even the 400 >ASA black and white film is pretty useless in low light since >the lens is very slow and there is a small bellows factor to >consider when using the larger format Polaroid. I cannot imagine >a more useless format for any kind of night time photography, >particularly hand held photography. The fact that a time >exposure would probably be necessary as well as the stationary >mounting for such long exposures on a tripod would suggest to me >that any night time Gulf Breeze photo would be suspect >(particularly if it were sharp!). At this point, I must admit >that I am not as familiar with the GB photos as Dr. Macabee. >Bruce, do you know if all the shots were produced on Polaroid >film? If so, was a reason given? If the photos were taken over >the course of several evenings, I can't imagine continuing >documentation with a crappy Polaroid when a 35mm would have >certainly been available and well worth the implementation.> IT is unfortunate that this debate is coming so long after the events because all these questions have been answered in publications ('The Gulf Breeze Sightings', by Ed and Frances Walters, Morrow, 1990; 'A History Of The Gulf Breeze Sightings', by Bruce Maccabee in the 1988 MUFON Symposium proceeding... version updated to summer 1988 available from the Fund for UFO Research and numerous emails and other publications) I studied the Polaroid film quite closely. Ed got useable exposures despite the slow equivalent speed because of the fact that the light level was so low generally that th automatic eye on the camera did not shut the lens quickly. By experment with Ed we determined that mst of his Polaroid exposures were in the range 0.9-1.1 sec. We also found that that Polaroid medium has an exposure "depth" which is surprising. That is, to the eye under normal lighting a portion of the picture might appear so dark as to reveal almost no image. HOwever, upon using very bright light on th photo... what became called "light blasting"... one could see the details of the picture. The published pictures were often "light blasted" in order to show the details. However, this often gave the wrong impression that the photos looked in normal light as they did with light blasting. On the other hand, it has been mentioned elsewhere that the use of a Polaroid was supposed to prevent any kind of camera trickery. This is absolutely untrue. Polaroid made a terrific copy stand specifically for "peel off" Polaroids. It had a special bracket to center the camera over the Polaroid to be copied as well as a close up lens. This sort of device would have made "in camera" double exposures and other photographic tricks child's play. The copies made using this unit were remarkable good considering the limitations of the format. Ed demonstrated under test that his natural operation of the camera allowed him to hold it reasonably steady for the duration of the exposure. There were, of course, image smears in the pictures. One of the most interesting confirmations of _non-double_exposure _ was that the smears of the images of a nearby streetlight that appeared in many of his frst pictures was the same as the smear of the UFO image. I'm sure you understand that this is "fortuitous" if a doublt exposure hoax because in the Simple Double Exposure method (which ed was accused of using) the first exposure is of the model against a black background and the second is of the background scenery. If both exposures were done using a tripod there would be no smear. But Ed held the camera in his hand, so this would require exactly the same camera vibration (hand shake) during the first and second exposures. >Lastly, you offered: >>Anyway, Oechsler had to set up lights correctly to minimize or >>eliminate this glare or else the copy would have light images on >>it that were _not_ on the original. >>The same goes for focus. You can't change the focus of the >>original. But you don't want the copies to be in worse focus >>(fuzzier) than the original. >>Again I say, the attempt is to get the most faithful >>reproduction and to add nothing (or as little as possible). This >>is not easy. Just ask your local photo expert.> >I agree with everything you say above except how difficult it is >to make a good copy neg. If fact, it's so easy that most one >hour labs offer this service for peanuts. Further more, beyond >cleaning the Polaroid for specks that might have stuck to the >emulsion, there is nothing remotely difficult in make copy negs; >either in 35mm or even (as mentioned above) on more Polaroid >film. With the requirement for light blasting this was not as simple as you make it sound. Oechsler worked with a guy who had for many years run a photo store and had "deep roots" in photography. Also, Oechsler called the Polaroid company to find out what was the best way to clean fingerprints and dust and to reduce glare. >And one more thing. Polaroid did make (and still does, I think) >a "peel off" neg pack that would leave a printable, transparent >negative for use on an enlarger. To my knowledge this material >was generally available anywhere Polaroid film was sold, though >I can't speak for the Gulf Breeze area, since I don't live >there. The type of Polaroid film - 108 - that Ed used made a lousy negative. An attempt was made to study te negatives but it soon became clear that the prints held all the valuable photo information. >Ultimately, all this all comes down to the most obvious >question: Considering the limitations of Polaroid material, why >was it used for such important documentation and how were its >limitations overcome to produce rapidly shot UFO photos, >presumably hand held? Ed explained that he had only one camera. A virtual search of his house by the first investigators turned up a dearth (lack) of anything photograph. Ed had no books on the subject and no other cameras. He did have a video camera (with which he took one video of the UFO). Ed said he used the Polaroid primarily to take photos of his work sites to document work status (building houses). He also used it for anything else around the house, including taking [photos at parties (he was accused of creating double exposures of kids at parties!) Ed finally did get a 35 mm camera in late 1989. He took his first UFO photos with that camera in January, 1990, in the presence of half a dozen other witnesses (two of whom also took photos; but this is another story that the skeptics like to avoid).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 26 MUFON's International Director To Retire From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 05:29:43 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:41:54 -0400 Subject: MUFON's International Director To Retire Source: San Antonio Express-News, Friday, September 24, 1999, http://www.expressnews.com:80/pantheon/news-bus/state/2501bufo0925nz.shtml Stig *** Director of UFO group to retire By Robert Kolarik Express-News Staff Writer ** It may seem like an alien concept, but Walter H. Andrus Jr. is writing the final chapters of his own version of the X-Files. After three decades of investigating and chronicling reports of unidentified flying objects, the 78-year-old Seguin resident is retiring as international director of the Mutual UFO Network. With about 4,000 members worldwide, MUFON is the largest civilian UFO organization. "I've been international director since 1970," Andrus said of heading the group he helped found in 1969. "I retired from the Motorola Corp. when I became 62. I'm just retiring again." Andrus said his retirement will become effective in July and the MUFON headquarters will move from Seguin to the Denver area. "John Schuessler, who's the deputy director of administration now, has been chosen as the next international director," Andrus said. "He's a founding member, too." Andrus, who's scheduled to speak today in San Antonio at the 36th annual National UFO Conference, said he announced his retirement early to give the organization plenty of time to make the move. "This should make things fairly smooth when it comes to the transition," he said. The Navy veteran said he became interested in UFOs shortly after World War II. "I had a personal sighting in 1948, when my family and I saw an object (flying over) downtown Phoenix." His interest in the subject of UFOs continued and Andrus eventually wound up at the helm of MUFON. "I helped organize MUFON May 31, 1969," he said. "Originally, (the headquarters) was in Quincy, Ill., where I worked at the Motorola plant. "We started as the Midwest UFO Network and covered the Midwestern states. We (eventually) changed the name because we started having members in South Africa and Europe. But by then, the acronym MUFON was pretty well-known, so we looked around for something that started with M. Mutual does, and it means a group of people working together all over the world." Andrus, who's a native of Des Moines, Iowa, said his family moved to Seguin in 1975 when Motorola sold its facility in Quincy. "I could have gone to almost any Motorola plant," he said. "We came down here and visited Seguin and loved the locale. We bought a home and I worked in the plant here in middle management." During his speech today, Andruswill address "The Disappearance of Frederich Valentich in Australia." He said the case involved the disappearance of a pilot and his airplane in 1978. "I've heard the tapes of the conversation" between the flier and air traffic controllers, Andrus said. "The last thing you hear is a crunching of metal. (Before that, the pilot) described a big cigar-shaped object. He was at 5,000 feet and it passed over him. ... His last transmission was, 'It's coming back again.'" Andrus is one of 10 speakers on tap today and Sunday at the conference at the Seven Oaks Hotel and Conference Center, 1400 Austin Highway. Tickets are $60 at the door for the two days. ** Friday, Sep 24, 1999 � 1999 San Antonio Express-News
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:32:41 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:07:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? Re Jim's post ... >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:48:50 EDT >Subject: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >To: updates@globalserve.net >The very first time I saw a meteor, I heard it! It was in the >Adirondack Mountains, where I spent most of my summers, and I >was a very little Gesundt. ... [ snip ] >What we saw was most definitely a meteor, it streaked across >maybe 10 or 15 degrees of sky, made the correct trail and left >the right amount of debris slightly behind. But the fascinating >thing was that I heard a sound which lasted during the time the >meteor was at maximum burn. It sounded a little like (to me, >anyway) a loud buzzing sound. <snip> >My dad and mom were there and saw the meteor but heard not a >peep from it, just from me. "Did you hear that?!?" At the >time, there were others in the little cabin park who also saw >the meteor. These numbered about 10 or so families. But no one >heard it and all thought little Gesundt had already invented >Gripple and was drinking either it, or gramps homemade Acquatta. I remember reading once, somewhere, long long ago, in a galaxy far far away, that as we age we gradually lose our ability to hear higher frequency; hence, young Gesundts might hear things that older Gesundts do not. A medical type on this list might be able to confirm that (?) So maybe its not be so strange that you heard something, but your low-frequncy elders did not. Then again, maybe it was that alien transponder short-circuiting in your ear; probably has been upgraded since... 2 cents, -Brian Cuthbertson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 26 Nick Pope's New Book From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:38:08 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:27:29 -0400 Subject: Nick Pope's New Book A press release by KULTURE SHOCK (sic!) of Norwich, England. Source: 'uk.rec.ufo'. Stig *** From: who@kulture.demon.co.uk (Kulture Shock) Newsgroups: uk.rec.ufo Subject: UFO SPECIALIST APPEARING Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:00:17 GMT KULTURE SHOCK 10-12 St Benedicts Street, Norwich. NR2 4AG Tel: 01603 625557 Fax: 01603 625558 email: info@kulture.demon.co.uk SUNDAY 10TH OCTOBER 1999 MAIL ORDER AVAILABLE PRESS RELEASE 'Operation Thunder Child' by Nick Pope Although ostensibly a techno-thriller, the Ministry of Defence insisted on seeing the manuscript and making some changes. They had the book for three months - longer than for most of the books written by former SAS soldiers - before giving it final clearance to publish. Nick Pope has dipped into the 'real x-files', and packed the book with references to formerly classified UFO events investigated by the MOD. Many of the events are thinly disguised versions of the real events. Fictionalisation is the only way that MOD official Nick Pope can talk about some of the more controversial incidents. Examples of reality disguised as fiction include: 1 The Rendlesham Forest incident, which appears in the prologue, inspired some of, and reflects, what Nick Pope was told by United Nations Air Force officers. 2 The alleged downing of an RAF Lightning by a UFO in 1970, which inspired some of the aerial battles that appear throughout the book. 3 The UFO briefing that the Minister receives in chapter four is based on a brief Nick Pope gave to a Defence Minister in 1982. All the incidents described actually occurred. 4 The potential biological hazard from extraterrestrial contact as described in chapter nine was an issue that Nick Pope raised with his MOD bosses while on the UFO desk. 5 The descriptions of the shape and capabilities of the UFO's, and the physical description and behaviour of the aliens are based on actual UFO reports and alien abduction claims investigated by Nick Pope as part of his official MOD duties. Many scenes give insights into 'spin-doctoring' techniques, showing how Governments manipulate Parliament and the public, and manage the media. Nick Pope has worked for the Minstry of Defence for fourteen years. As well as a tour of duty spent researching and investigating UFOs he has been involved in highly classified work on the Gulf War, Bosnia and Kosovo. This book contains a wealth of authentic detail about rules of engagement, weapons systems and tactics although some details have had to be changed for national security reasons. Nick Pope will be appearing at KULTURE SHOCK on Sunday 10th October 1999, from 12.30 when he will be talking about his work, answering questions and signing copies of his books. Advance booking is advised! Contact DAVID for further details
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: RPIT - A Reminder [was... Re: The Challenge] From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 05:10:02 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:39:59 -0400 Subject: Re: RPIT - A Reminder [was... Re: The Challenge] >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:21:19 EDT >Subject: RPIT - A Reminder [was... Re: The Challenge] >To: updates@globalserve.net >The only unimpeachable solid evidence yet identified regarding >the Roswell Event, the photographs taken on July 8, 1947, in >the Headquarters, 8th Air Force offices of General Roger Ramey >at Fort Worth, Texas, have been studied diligently now for more >than a year by the international volunteer RPIT (Roswell Photo >Interpretation Team) reinforced. <snip> >Serious comments and suggestions from any ufologists have been >and continue to be invited. The first annual report of the work >of RPIT also will be posted to the web shortly. To Mr Bond Johnson, Kevin Randle, David Rudiak, and the List I wish to repeat, one last time, what I wrote in recent messages (September 1 and 7): General DuBose had revealed, in the course of a long interview with Jaime Shandera, published in the MUFON UFO Journal of January 1991, how the balloon and radar target debris had been brought to the office of General Ramey, on Tuesday July 8, 1947 - he brought them! He explained, clearly enough, how he had met a B-29 which brought to Fort Worth the balloon debris in a canvas pouch, on direct orders from the Pentagon: "I took the pouch in Ramey's office. In it was a bunch of trash. We unbuckled it and laid it out on the floor : it was cold potatoes as far as I was concerned". He confirmed later to Kevin Randle that he never saw the real debris, which explains why he said that the debris had not been switched! All this is pretty simple and clear, and I am at loss to understand all that fuss going on about the balloon photographs, which only feed further confusion on Roswell. Now Kevin Randle says (message of September 11) that this interview of DuBose by Shandera is not corroborated: "...Shandera didn't make notes and didn't record the conversation so that we only have his unsupported statements." That is very regrettable indeed. It would certainly have been appropriate at that time to obtain confirmation of DuBose statement, with audio or videotape records. That would have saved us a tremendous waste of time discussing the balloon pictures. Where did this balloon debris come from? I think David Rudiak has made a good guess: possibly directly from White Sands, where balloon trains had been recuparated and probably stored there. It's even possible that the Fort Worth debris came from a Mogul balloon train (although we don't see in the pictures any tape with flower designs). The question remains; Why did they issue a press release in Roswell, in the first place, which had to be debunked so laboriously in Fort Worth? In short, when Marcel and Cavitt made their report to Blanchard on Tuesday morning at 6 am, there were immediately in a state of extreme urgency, with two possible scenarios: First scenario: the discovery of the debris field was going to go out of control. Second scenario: they were going to cover up the discovery. The decision to publish the press release was probably a brillant move to answer the two scenarios. When then gained control of the debris field toward the end of the morning, they could then put in place the debunking operation in Fort Worth. All this worked very well. Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 26 'Strange Days... Indeed' Tonight - Sam Sherman From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:06:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:06:24 -0400 Subject: 'Strange Days... Indeed' Tonight - Sam Sherman ----------------- /// Sam Sherman ------------------ Sam Sherman has been in the motion picture industry for over 35 years and for the past 30 years has served as the founder/president of Independent-International Pictures Corporation (IIP) who are producers/distributors of theatrical feature films of all kinds. Sam became involved in the UFO field quite by accident. In 1961, while writing for national magazines for Warren Publishing Co., he had a UFO sighting in New York City, which was also seen by 3 other members of his family. He shot still photos and 16MM motion picture film of an illuminated disc over the city. In 1992 Sam Sherman decided to again look into the UFO mystery for a long term project - a feature film docu-drama on the question -has Earth been visited by extraterrestrials? titled - Beyond This Earth. While researching the UFO subject at government agencies Sam received 6 hours of audio tapes from the night of October 7, 1965 at Edwards Air Force Base in California. The tapes concerned a UFO over flight of this secure installation and the military response of scrambling planes after the aerial objects. The tapes were de-classified in a chopped up, intelligible form known as "scrambled release". Sherman spent 8 months editing and interpreting the tapes with the aid of former Tech Sgt Charles Sorrels who was at Edwards AFB in the tower the night of the event and who started the alert and is heard on the original tapes. From this material Sherman produced a critically received one hour Audio Documentary 'The Edwards Air Force Base Encounter', which we'll be playing clips from as we discuss this intriguing case. Sam's site is at: edwardsufo.com Join Sam Sherman, Jonn Kares and I this evening as we discuss these Strange Days... Indeed on CFRB 1010 AM - 50,000 watts 'Clear-Channel' 6070khz Shortwave you can also listen via Media Player at: www.cfrb.com/ You'll need to access the site using Internet Explorer since Media Player seems to choke using any version of Netscape - thanks Mr. Bill! To call the program dial: On-Air 416-872-1010 1-800-561-CFRB [all over North America] *TALK [local mobiles] Errol Bruce-Knapp \_______________________________________________/ UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net A UFO & Related Phenomena E-Mail List operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - 416-696-0304 UFO UpDates Archives are available at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates 'Strange Days...Indeed' - available live via MediaPlayer 9:00 Eastern, Sunday nights at: http://cfrb.com/default.htm The MUFON Ontario Pages are at: http://globalserve.net/~updates/mufon/index.htm \_______________________________________________/ UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net A UFO & Related Phenomena E-Mail List operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - 416-696-0304 UFO UpDates Archives are available at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates 'Strange Days...Indeed' - available live via MediaPlayer 9:00 Eastern, Sunday nights at: http://cfrb.com/default.htm The MUFON Ontario Pages are at: http://globalserve.net/~updates/mufon/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: Dave Bowden <dave.bowden@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:29:47 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:27:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET> >Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:27:46 +0100 >>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:49:54 +0000 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:50:38 -0400 >>>From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> >>>Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:44:18 +0100 >>>>From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>Hi Roy, Andy and all, >>>>I didn't realize Rendlesham was now considered a "Non UFO Case"? >>>>Who was responsible for the final nail in the coffin then? Only >>>>I know there are possibly a few people on this list who think >>>>Rendlesham was a major UFO case. >>>I didn't actually say that Roy. It is a UFO case. However, there >>>is no real evidence as some have claimed that a craft ET or >>>military came down or crashed. >>Of course there was no crash, this is the first time I have even >>heard it suggested. Whatever happened at Rendlesham (alien or >>whatever) came and left intact. >>I do however remember someone (I can't think who at the moment) >>putting forward the idea that the trained military personnel >>involved mistook the local lighthouse for a UFO. If this were >>the case then the military personnel involved were no more use >>than a chocolate tea pot. >Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Oh dear oh dear oh dear Tim. >How many 'trained military personnel' have you come across? Oh let me think..... quite a few actually, most of my family have worked for the MOD, I have friends who are in the forces. I have also done a lot of work for the RAF (non UFO so nothing to get excited about). >Just because you have a gun and can take orders means nothing >and I'd have thought by now that this myth of the "trained >observer" would have died given that it's been dealt with >before. >In the forces you're trained to do what you're told. Well maybe in the days of 'Dads army' this might have been true, these days troops are indeed expected to follow orders but also to show some initiative. >Given my knowledge of both Army and Air Force - lived on bases >when younger etc. whole family in RAF etc. - I can honestly say >that there is no special training for personnel regarding >'what's up there'. How old were you when lived on these bases? I'm assuming you were civilian since you said 'lived on' and not 'stationed at'. Since civilians living on base are not privy to base ops I don't understand why you thought it relevant to mention at all, unless it's yet another case of 'credential flashing' we get too much of that on this list already. I too have lived on bases, I can remember when my Dad was stationed at Dusseldorf in Germany for instance. I've never mentioned it before because it is also not relevant. Just because I lived on the bases didn't mean I slept in hanger 18. >Given the over one hundred years of family experience in RAF >matters, some at a very high level, how come none of them heard >about UFOs and cover-ups? Well that's interesting Tim, so your family have been involved in RAF matters since before the Wright brothers first successfully powered flight in 1903. What makes it even more interesting is that the RAF were not formed until April 1918 (a combination of the RFC and the RNAS, flying combined offensive patrols (COPs) as it was known back then). If it was over one hundred years of family experience then perhaps back in the 1890's they were involved in the Royal Kite Force or maybe the 633 balloon squadron ;-) Dave.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 27 Australian UFO Sighting OZ File.00321.25.09.99 From: Robert Frola <ufologist@powerup.com.au> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 01:56:58 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:32:36 -0400 Subject: Australian UFO Sighting OZ File.00321.25.09.99 Australian UFO Sighting OZ File. 00321 25.09.99 Robert Frola AUFORN 1800 Callin Code: 00321.25.09.99 Date: 25.9.99 Day: Saturday Time Reported: 1:52am Source: Kerry B Location: Laverton & Pointcook. Victoria Tel: 03 9369 Report given to rep Robert Frola AUFORN Date: 24.09.199 Day: Friday Time of Observation: 9.55pm Location: Laverton Pointcook Shape: No clear shape Size: 50 cent piece Objects: 1 Colour: Dull orange Sound: None Speed: Faster than a plane Duration: 3 minutes or more Witnesses: 4 Reportees: Kerry , 2 chefs 1 security officer Kerry stated: I had just finished work and was walking to my car when one of the chefs I work with called out to me to look up. This was when l saw what he was looking at. It was this huge orange ball of light. It was very high up the size of 50cent piece at arms length I guess. The chef I worked with that night called out to the security guard to come outside and have a look at the object. He came out with another chef and we all watched this thing "I didn't know what it was" and they didn't . We all watched it and I tell you I thought I was a scared but the guys stood there trying to work out wether to run back inside "big brave men" ha!!. I have be honest I just wanted to hide but the funny thing about it all we didn't move from the spot. (Q) Could it have been one of the RAAF planes ? Kerry stated: "Hell no" we all watched it and tried to figure out what hell it was. We all figured out what it wasn't (it was NO plane) we all work out near the Laverton RAAF base and we see their planes coming and going all the time (so we do no our planes). We did observe a plane fly under the object, the plane looked quite small. The pilot of that plane must have seen the object I'm sure. When I got home I called the police but they hadn't had any calls but they informed me I could call your hotline so I did. Can you tell me what we saw because it scared the hell out of us. Still under investigation Report By Robert Frola AUFORN
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:50:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:57:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Fri, 24 Sep 99 09:51:15 PDT >>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:48:39 -0500 >>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 99 10:46:07 PDT >Mr. Evans (with apologies to patient and gentle listfolk): >>>What a load of malicious crap. I have no idea who Terry Evans >>>is, but that doesn't stop the mindless reputation - trashing, >>>obviously. Evidence, logic, reason, or a sense of proportion >>>never stops this sort of thing, sad to say. >>>Evans doesn't explain to us exactly what horrendous consequences >>>will ensue if I "say something (Bruce Maccabee) doesn't like." >>>I can tell him: none whatever. Unlike Evans and unlike Jerry >>>Black, Bruce -- with whom I have disagreed on occasion, though >>>generally he and I have the same outlook on the UFO phenomenon >>>-- is a gentleman. He understands that honorable human beings, >>>including honorable ufologists, will disagree from time to time. >>>To all appearances, however, Evans and Black assume that >>>disagreement with them is all the evidence they need of the >>>dissenter's venality. No wonder ufological discourse has become >>>so warped. >>What exactly was malicious about what I said? Its an >>observation. I'm 55 years old, I've been interested in UFOs for >>a very long time. I've watched and heard the bickering. I've >>seen the backbiting. I see the cliques. And I stand by what I >>said. >Too bad, but I'm not surprised that you'd stand by baseless >charges. If you weren't that sort of guy, you wouldn't have >made them in the first place. All I can say is that, knowing >the individuals (including myself) a hell of a lot better than >you do, I know you're wrong. Even, it appears, maliciously >wrong. You sought to trash the characters -- with no evidence >at all except your own unsupported opinion -- of those who >disagree with you, rather than to address their arguments, which >is always much more difficult to do. To do the latter, you >might even be forced to think, or to educate yourself on such >demanding subjects as optical physics and photoanalysis. I have a right to my opinion. I have a right to voice my observations. And you don't know who I know or what I know. Based on your absolute lack of knowledge of me...you trash me. OK. >Yours is the cheapest sort of ad hominem strategy, and it gives >me no reason to think well of you. You're precisely the sort of >person who's poisoned the well of ufological discourse between, >or so I think in my worst moments, redemption. Thank God that >gentlemen like Bruce Maccabee have not been driven out of this >field entirely. So long as they remain, there is some hope, >however small, that civil discourse may survive. Why would I care what you thought of me? And I haven't poisoned anything. The pellet was dropped a long time ago. >>BTW: How about providing all of us with a list of articles by >>you, or anyone affiliated with CUFOS which came out against Gulf >>Breeze and Mr. Walters and Dr. Maccabee. I know I have read a >>few, but I would like to read everything that CUFOS said. You >>can do that, can't you? <snip> >IUR began covering the Gulf Breeze controversy soon after the >incident became known. It had an investigator there early on, >Bob Boyd of Mobile, Alabama. Boyd was instantly (some charged >prematurely) skeptical. "Hostile" is probably a better adjective >than skeptical; Boyd literally disliked Walters on sight. He >wrote a monograph titled Failure at Science (1988), which CUFOS >sold and distributed. Later, CUFOS published Zan Overall's >monograph Gulf Breeze Double Exposed (1990). Page 466 of The >UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Ed, carries a bibliography of Gulf Breeze >writing, including IUR articles. I simply don't recall whether >this is everything we ran, but even if not, it's a >representative sample. (I just now recall an anti-GB article by >Barbara Becker, and it's unlisted; so the bibliography is _not_ >complete.) Listfolk may be amused to know that in its >March/April 1988 issue IUR ran a debate on Gulf Breeze, with >CUFOS scientific director Mark Rodeghier taking a skeptical >position, Dennis Stacy a positive one. I have read much of this...but I wanted to read ALL of it. Since you mention the bibliography the will check it out. I'd say thanks but I dont want to ruin my reputation as an ignorant arse. >>I totally agree with you... there should be disagreement. There >>should be debate. That's the point. CUFOS was a wimp when it >>came to criticizing Dr. Maccabee and Hopkins and Andrus. You >>(CUFOS) were simply unwilling to get involved and investigate >>the case. >Absolutely incredible. You know absolutely nothing about the >history of CUFOS' involvement with Gulf Breeze. You've just as >much as admitted that, but that doesn't stop you from going on >to make wild, absurd charges. I can see listfolk who know the >real story shaking their heads incredulously at the above. As >anybody who knows more than you do (not hard to do) is aware, >CUFOS was involved very early on, and its outspoken skepticism >caused a period of bad feeling between it and MUFON. You should >have seen some of the letters we got from Andrus and Dan Wright, >among others. But you don't care, do you? It's more important >to feel self-righteous, even at the cost of having to be >overwhelmingly ignorant to do it. I know quite a bit about your involvement in Gulf Breeze. Since I don't want to get my contact at CUFOS in trouble...I'll just say that according to him/her, you were the one who did not want to run anything negative about Gulf Breeze or Dr. Maccabee. Since you were the editor, and no one else wanted the job, (too much work) they didn't really want to pursue Gulf Breeze (with a vengeance) because they thought you would quit. You did print articles about Gulf Breeze but under protest. Now I suppose this person could have been telling me a tale...but it could also be true that back in the beginning of Gulf Breeze, you did not want to rock the boat and only later, did you come to a firm decision on your opinion of the case. If this is incorrect, set me straight, I'll apologize. >Though I have deep doubts about the GB photos, your >contributions (if that's the word) to the discussion are >singularly unproductive. You don't seek to challenge Maccabee's >analysis, I'm sure because you lack the technical expertise to >do so; instead, as you've done with everybody else, you hurl >reckless, unfounded charges against his character. What a waste >of time, but what an expelling of rhetorical gas. Poof. >>You (CUFOS) sent Randle and Schmitt to New Mexico and >>backed (financially) the Roswell investigation, but you wouldn't >>put any effort into Gulf Breeze? Why? Because it was the baby >>of Dr. M. (wasn't he the head of Fund for a while?) and to find >>out that he might be lying (ooops) was something you just didn't >>want to deal with. Better to say as little as possible and hope >>it goes away. Don't ask, don't tell. >Is there a single reason why I should take you seriously on >_anything_? Every charge you have made is demonstrably wrong, >and when challenged, you can only enhance the volume. I'm not >impressed. >Jerry Clark Same source on Roswell. If CUFOS backed the first Roswell book, why didn't you keep some of the profits? Maybe this person was wrong? If so, I would like to know. (If this person is lying, then you have a traitor in your midst.) Terry Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:02:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:01:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 99 10:57:43 PDT >>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:34:38 -0500 >>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 99 22:33:51 PDT >>>>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:14:35 -0500 >>>>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>Patient and gentle listfolk: >>>>And speaking of jokes. I recently read an article by a woman who >>>>was on the staff of the newspaper down there when it was all >>>>going on. She claims that she and another woman knew Walters and >>>>the editor... what was his name?... were pulling a hoax and she >>>>claimed that she was told by the editor to make sightings of >>>>non-UFOs into UFOs to keep the hysteria going. >>>Now, let me get this straight. Isn't Evans the same guy who was >>>just trashing somebody for taking "anecdotal evidence" >>>seriously? I guess one standard applies to him, another to >>>everybody with whom he disagrees. The above doesn't even rise >>>to "anecdotal evidence." "Unverified rumor" is a lot closer. >>>But hey, if you're trashing somebody, unverified rumors will do. >>>Jerry Clark >>Her name is Kimberly Blair. The articles are in the Pennsacola >>Independent Weekly. July 8, 1999. Vol.1, No.2. Its quite a >>lengthy article. 6 pages. >>Is this enough for you? >Patient and gentle listfolk: >I rest my case. This doesn't even rise to the level of >"anecdotal evidence" -- and remember, our correspondent was >trashing somebody the other day for taking that sort of thing >seriously. Here, lacking even anecdotal evidence (i.e., >specific reports by individuals who seem credible and whose >claims are investigatable), the reporter is reduced to passing >on vague rumors and complains that Cook and Walters don't behave >as she would under the circumstance. I am not impressed; nor >should any onlooker who knows anything at all about what >constitutes evidence. Being told to write up an obvious observation of planets as a UFO report is not vague. Nor is her observation of Walters' apparent nonchalance. The physical threats to her friend. I don't care of your aren't impressed. You put too much importance in yourself. >I am perfectly prepared to believe that the Gulf Breeze >photographs and stories associated with Walters are bogus. In >fact, I have long believed they are exactly that. But if all I >had was the flimsy nonevidence in this newspaper story, I >certainly wouldn't be bragging about it. >Jerry Clark She was there, you weren't. She lived there, you didn't. Do what you told me... get the 6 page article and read it, then comment. Terry Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:02:35 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:16:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:48:50 EDT >Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:29:44 -0400 >Subject: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >The very first time I saw a meteor, I heard it! It was in the >Adirondack Mountains, where I spent most of my summers, and I >was a very little Gesundt. I was sitting outside of our cabin on >a cliff overlooking Lake George, with a sky chock full of stars. >It was a very clear night and the time of year was mid August, >about 1955. >What we saw was most definitely a meteor, it streaked across >maybe 10 or 15 degrees of sky, made the correct trail and left >the right amount of debris slightly behind. But the fascinating >thing was that I heard a sound which lasted during the time the >meteor was at maximum burn. It sounded a little like (to me, >anyway) a loud buzzing sound. >They didn't. This began a very heated argument with my dad who >to this day thinks I imagined it. However about ten or fifteen >years ago, I read an article in either the Tuesday NY Times or >Time magazine, about some people being able to hear meteors. It >had something to do with the EM frequencies which may be >generated during entry and burn-up. >Anyone out there understand the theory? It's been nagging at me >for 45 years and my father (age 87) is still on my back about >that incident. We don't talk about my other experiences. It >makes his blood clot! Dear Jim, The buzzing sound you heard associated with the meteor fireball has been reported in the scientific literature for the past 200 years, but was generally pooh-poohed by many scientists until fairly recently. (Dr. Frank Drake, e.g., in "UFOs, A Scientific Debate," dismissed the phenomenon as physically impossible, and instead tried to attribute it to psychological aberrations of the perceptual system. This was part of Drake's attack on UFO witnesses as unreliable, since meteor witnesses, in his estimation, were unreliable as well. Others, however, such as Dr. Lincoln LaPaz, the New Mexico astronomer and meteor specialist whose name is also associated with the Roswell case, green fireball phenomenon, and secret USAF UFO investigations in the Southwest, was well aware of the reported buzzing sounds and took them quite seriously.) About 15% of witnesses interviewed about major fireball sightings have consistently reported hearing these meteor sounds. Most witnesses describe the sound as similar to bacon sizzling. There have also been sounds reported by some associated with auroras. The reason many scientists rejected this reported anomalous phenomenon is that they had no theory to explain it. At first sight, it seems "impossible." Sound can't travel that fast. Any sonic boom created by a lower flying meteor wouldn't arrive for minutes afterwards. Yet witnesses, such as yourself, hear the buzzing or sizzling sound simultaneously with the fireball sighting. In 1980, physicist Colin Keay came up with a plausible physical theory to explain the sounds (termed electrophonic sounds). Suddenly the "impossible" might be possible after all. Maybe those thousands of independent accounts of the anomalous meteor sounds weren't crazy after all. Since then, these sounds have been recorded in the field. That should end the debate as to their reality. Keay's theory is that the meteors generate turbulent plasma wakes (the glowing trails), which in turn generate low-frequency electromagnetic waves in the kilohertz range. If there is some structure near the witness that can act as an antenna and resonate to these EM waves, it will act as a transducer and convert the low-frequency EM waves into a higher-frequency buzz. Even such mundane objects as pine needles, loose hair, or eyeglasses can serve as transducers and produce faint high-frequency sounds, as Keay as demonstrated in laboratory experiments. (Thus somebody wearing glasses might hear the sounds, whereas somebody right next to them might not.) Keay has a recent article in the Journal of Scientific Exploration, an abstract of which can be found at: http://www.jse.com/abstracts/v7n4a1.html The abstract reads: ------------------------------------- Progress in Explaining the Mysterious Sounds Produced by Very Large Meteor Fireballs by Colin S. L. Keay Department of Physics, University of Newcastle, N.S.W., Australia Volume 7: Number 4: Page 337 Strange sounds, heard simultaneously with the sighting of brilliant meteor fireballs many tens of kilometers distant, have been an enigma for more than two centuries. The term "electrophonic sounds" is now widely used to describe them and distinguish them from the normal sonic effects heard after the fireball has passed by. A physically viable explanation for meteor fireball electrophonic sounds has been developed and verified by observation and experiment. The history of this neglected branch of meteor science is presented in some detail, drawing attention to the difficulties which stood in the way of a solution until fairly recently. ------------------------------------ Here's a much more detailed account from Keay's web page at http://www.ips.oz.au/papers/richard/auroral_sound_explan.html ----------------------------------- IPS Radio & Space Services Are Auroral Sounds A Real Physical Effect? Colin Keay, University of Newcastle It is very likely that the sounds sometimes heard during auroral displays are produced in a similar way to the rare examples of instantaneous sounds from very large meteor fireballs, which were a mystery for more than two centuries. Very briefly, the turbulent plasma wake of the fireball excites electromagnetic waves in the Earth-Ionosphere cavity. The allowed modes lie in the kilohertz region of the spectrum. In the case of a fireball as bright or brighter than the Moon, megawatts of electromagnetic energy are produced and the electric vector is strong enough to excite acoustic vibrations in suitable objects, such as loose hair or frozen pine needles. The resulting sounds are heard as hissing, swishing or crackling by anyone in close proximity. This explanation was developed by me to explain the widely perceived sounds from the huge New South Wales fireball in 1978. It was published in 1980 in the SCIENCE journal (Volume 210, pages 11-15). I was quickly able to prove in laboratory tests that rapidly varying electric fields could be heard provided there was something near the observer to act as a transducer. Even wearing a pair of glasses could raise a subject's threshold by 3 or 4 decibels. Later tests with mundane materials in an anechoic chamber verified that all sorts of objects could respond to rapidly fluctuating electric fields and produce faint sounds. Detection of the ELF/VLF electromagnetic radiation from a meteor fireball was a much harder problem because such events are very rare. The Japanese succeeded, publishing proof of the existence of such radiation in 1988. This difficult feat has since been repeated by a team of Canadian astronomers using a video recorder. These have finally laid to rest the fallacious conventional wisdom that instantaneous fireball sounds are psychological in origin. ... ---------------------------------------------------------------- Not everybody is near a suitable transducing structure at the time of their sighting, so only a small percentage of people are going to hear the sounds. Also people differ in their hearing sensitivity to higher frequency sounds. Older people are generally less sensitive to such sounds (often chronic hearing loss from years of exposure to loud sounds) than younger people. So those old fogeys in your party may not have heard the sound, whereas a child might have. Rest assured that you are not crazy -- at least in this one instance. 8-) David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:09:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:24:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:48:50 EDT >Subject: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >To: updates@globalserve.net "Brontophonic sound." Has nothing to d with ancient dinosaurs. This is the term, if I recall correctly, for noise from meteors. And guess what... no one knows exactly how it works. (Theoretically te variation in densities of the atmosphere should prevent actual sound waves from traveling from the meteor to the ground. Hence any noises must be made in some ther way. Electromagnetic phenomena are suggested. It may be that only especially sensitive people... or those contemplating the invention of Gripple..... can "hear" it.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:55:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:13:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:59:09 -0400 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:55:52 -0500 >>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com> >>>>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:13:35 PDT >>>>>Bruce Maccabee, you continue to be an embarrassment to the >>>>field of ufology. ><snip> >snip again >Optics. I started analyzing photos, beginning with the Trent >photos, in the early 1970s. Then did numerous others including >the famous (20 year ago) New Zealand movie film. I have analyzed >the photo by Roger Childerhose (RCAF pilot, 1955) which appears >on the front of Klass' first book (as a possible plasma, >according to Klass). >I have also analyzed numerous videos and photos since the Gulf >Breeze sightings of 1987-1988 (the subject of Blacks >"discourse"). Your UFO CV is impressive. I never doubted you until I read the Gulf Breeze Sightings. <snip> >>>The bent hood and blocks in the back end of th truck.and the >>>lack of a reflection in th hood were all thoroughly researched >>>in the summer of 1988, two years before Mr. Black came onto the >>>scene with Hyzer. <snip> >The first mention of this is on page 12 of the April 1989 MUFON >Journal. It mentions experiments done in the summer of 1988 that >determined that below a certain height a light in front of the >truck would not reflect from the hood. This was a result of the >hood being bent. This was an experiment done without blocks in >the truck, although Ed told me there were blocks in the rear of >the truck at the time of the sighting and photo. I happened to come across an article you wrote: Reflections on the lack of reflection. Copyright 1992 by Bruce Maccabee. It was in UFO newsletter. Vol 1. Nos. 3&4. p.5&6. >>As an observation. You say that the bricks etc., make the hood >>rise, however in looking at photo 19 in the book, it looks like >>the camera angle is downward and the hood is horizontal. To me it looks as though the beam of light from the UFO on the road was photographed, with respect to horizontal, from about an angle of 1 degree or less. >>I also know in carrying large loads in my truck, that regardless >>where I place the weight, the whole vehicle tends to lower >>proportionately. I have never had an instance where the front >>end was riding appreciably higher than the back. >>Since Mr. Walters was/is in construction it would seem the he >>would know how to load a truck with the weight over the axles. >Yes, yes. Well, Ed said he was transporting 40 lb cinder blocks >from one site to another and he just placed them in the rear of >the bed of the truck for convenience. He said he could feel the >effect of the loading while he was driving. >Experiments were done to estimate the amount of tilt of the >truck since Ed recalled about how many blocks he had at the >time. The dense discussions of this were 5 or more years ago >and I don't recall where the results of the block experiment >were published. <snip> >>Why did Mr. Sanio have the original negatives and Mr. Hyzer only >>a copy? <snip> >I was not even aware of Hyzer's agreement with Walt Andrus to >study Ed's photos. I heard through the grapevine that an >independent study was going on, but I didn't know by whom until >the study was basically done. Point: Hyzer agreed with Andrus to >study 8 x 10 copies which Andrus had made from the original >Polaroids. I had nothing to do with it. >Sainio got the originals because I asked Ed to send him the >originals. You heard through the grapevine? You were the prime investigator on this case...you were the man!...and Mr. Andrus did not tell you about Hyzer's analysis? You should have been the FIRST person consulted. >As I said above, Hyzer did his analysis before I even knew there >was a playing field. >Hyzer, of course, had the option to say that he wouldn't proceed >without the originals. Instead, according to Andrus, Hyzer >implied that he could do just as good an analysis with the >copies. >Perhap if he had approached Ed directly when he first became >interested Ed would have let him borrow some or all of the >originals. >>BTW: Why didn't you all just work together? Even if you >>disagreed, the debate would have been terrific, as colleagues >>not adversaries. >I talked to Hyzer after his paper was done. >Tried to get a discussion going. Hyzer's paper was published by >the MUFON Journal, as you are (probably) aware. Hyzer got >totally disgusted with some of the people who contacted him, >however, and decided to "leave the field." He had no idea of the >types and intensities of arguments that go on. He wasn't >prepared to tackle all the other aspects of UFO investigation >that go along with photo analysis. <snip> >>Who made the first generation negs? >Ed's photos were color Polaoid pictures. There were no "first >generation negs" unless you mean negs from which other prints >were made. (Andrus made the negs from which the prints were >made that Hyzer worked with.) ><snip> >>>More of the disinformation or lack of information spread by Mr. >>>Black and others. This has been explained numerous times in the >>>past 9 years. Oechsler hired another photo expert and together >>>they carefully cleaned the original Polaroid photos of Ed, then >>>they proveeded to make literally hundreds of prints and slides >>>from the originals, taking care to eliminate glare and obtain >>>perfect focus. It took weeks and the materials and lab time cost >>>$$$. >>It seems to me that by eliminating glare and obtaining perfect >>focus any data that those imperfections might have held is gone. >>Can't that be considered as tampering with evidence? I can >>understand getting specks off the pictures and negs but not >>changing anything. >I guess this shows what you know! >The attempt here is to make the most faithful copy possible of >the original. To do this you have to illuminate the original >photo with a lot of light and then photograph it. When you >illuminate a photo with light some of the light reflects from >the top surface that acts somewhat like a mirror. This is like >glare or reflection from plate glass. Hold a glossy print under >a light and twist it around or bend it. You will see reflections >of the light. >Anyway, Oechsler had to set up lights corectly to minimize or >eliminate this glare or else the copy would have light images on >it that were _not_ on the original. >The same goes for focus. You can't change the focus of the >original. But you don't want the copies to be in worse focus >(fuzzier) than the original. >Again I say, the attempt is to get the most faithful >reproduction and to add nothing (or as little as possible). This >is not easy. Just ask your local photo expert. <snip> >>>That alone makes him suspect. And if as everyone says, the >>sightings are still going on in Gulf Breeze... hey, where's the >>pictures? Mr. Walters and you want us all to believe that "they" >>only had eyes for Ed. Take my picture Mr. Walters... I'm ready >>for my close-up. >Your logic is semi-logical. If no one else were seeing things >then for Ed to take lots of pictures would be "way out." >However, other people were seeing ":things." And you seem to >have ignored my claim that many claimed to have seen the same >thing as what Ed photographed. I'm not ignoring you. >><snip> >>>>Interestingly, in all the pictures that Ed Walters took at his >>>>home, not one neighbor ever reported seeing any objects that Ed >>>>Walters photographed. Not one. There again, that does not mean >>>>that Ed Walters photographs are not real, but it is interesting >>>>to note that not one neighbor saw any object that Ed Walters >>>>photographed.> >>Wrong. the people across the street had a sighting in early >>April. >>There you go. Throwing in unsubstantiated claim. Which >>neighbors? And where is the written, dated report?> >There you go. Throwing out another unsubstantiated allegation. >This was first mentioned in "Gulf Breeze Without Ed" published >in the 1991 MUFON Proceedings, page 199. In the article I have >written that the witnesses lived "close to Ed" to prevent their >identity from being discovered since they had reported to MUFON >and wanted to remain anonymous. But when I wrote close, I meant >close. Anonymity is understandable, but this can just be lumped in to hear-say. Is there a report filed with MUFON, investigated, dated and signed? Terry Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:09:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:28:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:37:15 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: Sighting Report - NY 09-18-99 >>Now, John, be patient with me. Do the same optical test with >>your video camera and zoom from minimum to maximum and hold at >>maximum for at least a few seconds while focused on the >>yardstick at some (large) number of feet to that the yardstick >>fits into the field of view. Be sure the ends of the yardstick >>>the backgroud happens to be. >Hmm, I may have to shoot it all out of doors. (Because the >camera lens is 500mm and the videocam magnifies to 24X) I own a >small one family house (ala Archie Bunker) in Queens so I'll >just have to do the best I can in terms of backgrounds out of >doors. I'll make sure there is enough contrast so the objects >are clearly seen. I suggested a yardstick at, say 50 ft or whatever distance it takes to make the whole stick fit into the field of view with the 500 mm or 24 x zoom. You coul do this along a street, or whatever,. ALso, it doesn't have to be a yardstick. Any object of known width (perpendicular to the line of sight) and known dstance. For example, one guy in a city setting measured the distance to a door and the width of the door. As far as me testing you camera is concerned, the sighting has no gotten close enough to ABSOLUTE PROOF for that to be necessary. ( The closer a case gets to absolute proof the more difficult is the investigation. With Ed Walters, there were so many albatrosses hanging around his neck that I had to be sure that the tests he dis were not faked.... because many of them could have blown his photos right out of the warm Gulf waters. Why skeptics don't understand this..... seems illogical to me. But then, I very often find out that "logical skeptic" is an oxymoron..... and some turn out to be oxymorons without the oxy.....) Now. one other thing. To make this a "picture perfect"investigation, call up some invesigator you know (e.g., local MUFON guy) and ask for an investigation. whenever I do a long range investigation I rely on the locals to interviews, fill out MUFON reports, make measurements (if the witness can't) etc., An excellent example of this situation wasthe July 2 "peanut or double UFO" case from Ticonderoga NY which I mentioned before. Jim Bouck and I carried out a joint investigation ... he on the scene and me "back at home." THe net result was .... (blush) excellent because of the quality of investigation and the known credibility of the witnesses (who remain annymous, but are known to te investigators). I don't know what we'll come up with in your case, but without putting our gonads on the line and doing the work we'll never find out!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:35:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:42:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:48:50 EDT >Subject: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >To: updates@globalserve.net >Dear Errol and List, both gentle and violent; >The very first time I saw a meteor, I heard it! It was in the >Adirondack Mountains, where I spent most of my summers, and I >was a very little Gesundt. I was sitting outside of our cabin on >a cliff overlooking Lake George, with a sky chock full of stars. >It was a very clear night and the time of year was mid August, >about 1955. <snip> >Anyone out there understand the theory? It's been nagging at me >for 45 years and my father (age 87) is still on my back about >that incident. We don't talk about my other experiences. It >makes his blood clot! Dear Jim: It is quite possible you heard something, or so it seems to me. Your tender age at the time ( 1955?) explains it. As people age, say by their forties or fifties, their hearing has slowly deteriorated. They lose sensitivity at both the top and bottom of the audio spectrum. Once when I was in my mid twenties, I was playing in a band in a bar in San Mateo, CA. There was something wrong with the P.A. system, an extremely high pitched (hi-freq.) feedback. I found it very irritating, and so did a very pretty girl about age 22. Nobody else seemed to hear it, notably the bandleader and other musicians all in their 40s and 50s. They thought I was imagining things, in spite of the other witness. Maybe they didn't prefer to consider the age-related implications! The physics of sound propagation (meteors at high altitude) is quite another matter. Assuming this is possible, I would expect a significant delay so that any sound should seem well behind the visual path of the object. If the frequencies are sufficiently high, then this effect is lost as well... the sound would seem to come from anywhere and anywhere. This annoying effect is all too evident with the hi-freq. alarms on electronics equipment (Sonalert type). You can't tell which one is alarming until you put your hand right on top of the alarm device itself. Best wishes - Larry Hatch = = = = = = = = = =
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 27 'Reflections...' From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:57:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:33:33 -0400 Subject: 'Reflections...' Bruce Maccabee, In reading your article: Reflections On The Lack Of Reflection, UFO Newsletter, 1992. You mention the experiments carried out in the summer of 1988 by Mr. Walters. It was the same truck parked near the place of the original photograph. Can you tell me if Mr. Walters had the bricks in the truck at the time the 1988 experiment was performed? If so how many? It is unclear. Then you go to "recent" experiments using the same model truck, saying the recent experiment used bricks. How many bricks were used? Terry Evans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 27 UFO Enthusiasts Open National Meet From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 02:18:12 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:01:38 -0400 Subject: UFO Enthusiasts Open National Meet Source: San Antonio Express-News, September 25, 1999, http://www.expressnews.com:80/pantheon/news-bus/metro/2601bufo0926nz.shtml Stig *** UFO enthusiasts open national meet By Robert Kolarik Express-News Staff Writer ** For about 300 people this weekend, the truth really is out there - on Austin Highway. The two-day National UFO Conference kicked off Saturday in the appropriately named Starlight Ballroom of the Seven Oaks Hotel and Conference Center. [Image: Constance Clear signs a copy of her book, 'Reaching For Reality,' before speaking Saturday at the 36th National UFO Conference. Photo by Byron Samford/Staff] This isn't a meeting about whether unidentified flying objects exist. Most people questioned claimed to have had at least one UFO "sighting" in their lives. "Several years ago, I saw one as the sun was setting," said Joe Ullrich, a recent Sam Houston State University graduate from New Waverly. It was "a dark brown or black triangular craft that was hovering." "In '73, I saw one in Georgetown when I was a teen-ager," said Robert Brady, an electronic digital imaging artist from Austin. "I saw another in 1979." Underscoring their statements, both men wore UFO-inspired T-shirts. Brady's was a tie-dyed print with a green alien face on it; Ullrich's featured the caption, "The Many Moods of an Alien," and had an alien image repeated several times, each picture captioned with the name of an emotion. Although clad in non-alien-image-adorned attire, Janet Broderick of Pensacola, Fla., told of her first sighting in October 1995 while visiting relatives in Wisconsin. "I went outside to smoke and I looked up," the self-described middle-age housewife said. "There was a round, shiny object in the sky. The sky was perfectly clear. "My cigarette lasts seven minutes, and during that entire time, I've got my eyes glued to it. I didn't even blink and tears were streaming down my face. All of a sudden, it just disappeared." A good-natured but surprisingly intense person, Broderick hinted there have been other, darker events in her life - possibly even having been abducted by aliens. "I could never tell you that, though," she chuckled. "Let's just say I'm guarded about things." Another person who believed in keeping his guard up was Fred Woods, vice president of the Houston UFO Network. "When I got into (the UFO scene), it was fun," Woods said. "Now it's more scary. There's a lot of weird things in the world." As an example, Woods cited a group in Europe he said was started by a race car driver and is seeking a one-world government. "It's easy to manipulate people who have a belief system," he said. "Everything (in the world is) about power. If you manipulate everyone, you have the power. That's scary." The conference itself got a bit of a scare as it opened. The leadoff speaker - retiring Mutual UFO Network International Director Walter H. Andrus. Jr. - wasn't there for his 10 a.m. presentation. No misfortune had befallen Andrus, though. When he arrived about a half-hour late, the Seguin resident admitted he'd gotten lost while driving in San Antonio. One motorist who apparently didn't have any trouble finding the hotel was Jim Greenen from Orlando, Fla. His bus - painted white and emblazoned with the words "International UFO Center" and "World's Largest Supplier of UFO Products" - was in the parking lot well before the conference began. Unlike the other out-of-towners, Greenen and his wife didn't have to seek room at the inn. They live aboard their vehicle while traveling from UFO convention to UFO convention. "I carry my business with me," Greenen said while he stopped for a cigarette before carting a box of alien T-shirts to the conference vendors' room. "I have a shirt press, hat press, complete computer system on the bus. We make about 90 percent of our own products." In addition to the shirts, Greenen was offering such wares as computer mouse pads, drink coasters and mugs - all stamped with UFO-related insignia. Books also were featured at the meeting. ** Saturday, Sep 25, 1999 � 1999 San Antonio Express-News
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 27 Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And German Disc From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:23:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:04:27 -0400 Subject: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And German Disc Source: SIGHTINGS http://www.sightings.com/ufo4/canadadisc_u.htm Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And German Disc Technology By Julian Borger The Guardian 9-25-99 It Came From Outer Toronto... Avro Canada is best remembered for the ill-fated Arrow, the supersonic jet fighter shelved by Ottawa in 1959. Now, newly-released CIA documents shed new light on another of the company's dreams - a flying saucer. Washington -- The year was 1952 and the Cold War was at full chill. The House Un-American Activities Committee was looking for reds under beds, and UFO sightings were spreading like an epidemic across the United States. Even Air Force pilots reported being pursued by flying saucers. The sense of dread was turning to frenzy, and the CIA decided something had to be done. In one of his many memos on the subject, H. Marshall Chadwell, deputy head of the agency's Office of Scientific Intelligence, declared that "something was going on that must have immediate attention." He and others in the CIA were concerned that the Soviet Union was developing a secret weapon based on the "flying discs" that the Nazis had been rumoured to have constructed in the last months of the Second World War. Recently released documents from the CIA archive are full of accounts by former German scientists of their desperate work to save the Fatherland with revolutionary circular aircraft supposedly capable of enormous speeds. But when the CIA set up a study group in 1952 to look into the phenomenon, it discovered something extraordinary far closer to home: In Canada, British engineers were in the process of building a flying saucer of their own. It was called Project Y, a joint British-Canadian venture into the unknown that was, for much of the 1950s, perhaps the most secret aviation project in the West. Half a century on, the Project Y story remains a remarkable chapter in the history of aerial design, an idea that came tantalizingly close to breaking all the rules of the sky, before collapsing in bitter disappointment for lack of money and faith. Back in the '50s, the news that British boffins were building a saucer set off alarm bells at the CIA. Was the United States being left behind by its staunchest allies in the race for a technological edge? And if Britain and Canada could build a flying saucer, then surely the Soviet Union wouldn't be far ahead. Mr. Chadwell wanted answers. The sense of urgency is tangible in a memorandum he sent in June of 1954 to his department heads, demanding reports on "the use by any foreign power or nation of non-conventional types of air vehicles, such as or similar to the 'saucer like' planes presently under development by the Anglo/British Canadian efforts." While CIA agents were dispatched to watch eastern skies for flying saucers, U.S. Air Force officers were visiting Malton, just outside Toronto, the research headquarters of Avro Canada, a subsidiary of the British aircraft firm A.V. Roe Ltd. After the war, Malton was the place to be for hotshot aircraft designers fleeing Britain's doomed aviation industry. Among them was a supremely talented 31-year-old, John Frost, who had already earned a reputation for unorthodox design with the sleek de Havilland 108, a swallow-shaped research plane and arguably one of the most beautiful aircraft of all time. Mr. Frost was brought to Avro Canada to work on the CF-100 fighter, an ugly pug-nosed design he never really liked. He soon became obsessed with far more radical departures from orthodoxy. It is unclear whether he drew inspiration from the increasingly widespread popular legend of alien-piloted flying saucers skimming through the postwar skies or how much he relied on previous research. He would have known about the "Coanda effect," named after a French Romanian inventor, Henri-Marie Coanda, who experimented with the first rudimentary jet engine as early as 1910. He found that a turbojet would not only provide thrust; by sucking in air, it could also create a vacuum above the wing and thereby produce extra lift. There is plenty of evidence that, in the closing stages of the Second World War, the Nazis began to experiment with secret weapons built around the Coanda effect. Among the documents in the CIA's "X-File" archives is an interview given by a German aeronautical engineer, Georg Klein, who claimed to have worked on a flying saucer under the supervision of Luftwaffe designers Rudolf Schriever and Richard Miethe. Another document from the archives is a 1950 article written by a German migr in Chile, Eduard Ludwig. The article, submitted to a Chilean magazine but apparently never published, was titled "The mystery of 'flying discs' -- a contribution to its possible explanation." It recounted Dr. Ludwig's wartime work at a Junkers research facility, where he helped to develop a "one-piece metal wing" functioning as a "speedily rotating top" capable of vertical takeoff and high speeds. "The experiments turned out to be extremely difficult and involved many casualties," Dr. Ludwig observed drily, clearly rueful that the spinning-top experiments had not come to fruition before the arrival of the Red Army. He concluded: "The future will show whether the 'flying discs' are only the products of imagination or whether they are the results of a far-advanced German science which possibly, as well as the nearly finished atomic bombs, may have fallen into the hands of the Russians." Some of the Luftwaffe's top engineers did, indeed, end up in Moscow, while a handful, such as Wernher von Braun and Dr. Miethe, were spirited away to the West. Dr. von Braun, of course, became the father of the U.S. space program. No one seems sure what became of Dr. Miethe. In his own work at Malton, John Frost seemed to be groping his way. He was in search of the aeronautical holy grail of the age, the vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL) craft, but he began his research on a spade-shaped craft before settling in 1953 on a disc. The original concept called for a single flat turbojet to draw in air from above and force it out through nozzles around the edge of the craft. It would be kept aloft by a cushion of air and pulled upward by the Coanda effect. The early work was carried out in total secrecy; only a handful of Avro workers were told what was going on. "It was so secret that when Frost would come to the welding shop, he would sketch the piece he wanted on some paper and, when we had finished, we had to put the sketch in a special garbage bag," Alex Raeburn, Avro's workshop superintendent at the time, recalls. Verne Morse, the company photographer, was made privy to the secret only once it had begun to take shape. "There was a stupid rumour going around the plant that we were building a flying saucer, and everybody was laughing about it," he says. "Then one day I was called in by security, and I was told I needed clearance because we were building a flying saucer. "My first impression was that this was ridiculous," but when he was taken past the guards, through Project Y's double doors, and saw the smooth metal disc taking shape, he was speechless. "It was a sense of 'Wow!' Just real awe." But Project Y's first year was proving troublesome. The jet engine blew so hot it melted the steel structure of the craft, and its violent shaking would pop the rivets. When the U.S. Air Force officers arrived in September of 1953, the Canadian government, having spent $400,000 on the project, was glad to hand over the reins to a bigger sponsor. A.V. Roe, having failed to squeeze funds out of the British government, also welcomed the Americans with open arms. In 1955, Project Y became the U.S. Defence Department's weapon system 606A, and a white USAF star was painted on the prototype's fuselage. Millions were now being poured into the project, and the cult of secrecy deepened yet further. Mr. Raeburn recalls the day in 1959 that the U.S. Navy came to take the prototype away for wind-tunnel tests near Los Angeles. "We loaded it on a flatbed truck in the middle of the night. The police shut off all the traffic right down to Toronto harbour, and they put it on a U.S. tugboat. They even had one of our men sworn in to the U.S. Navy so he could go with it, along the Erie Canal, along the New York intercoastal waterway, and through the Panama Canal." With the help of U.S. financing, Mr. Frost had redesigned the original concept, placing three small jet engines around a central fan that would suck in the air through a circular intake at the centre of the disc. The pilot would sit in a little oval cockpit to one side under a perspex bubble. But the wind-tunnel tests suggested that secret weapon 606A had severe stability problems and was in constant danger of flipping over like a stiff pancake once the throttles were opened on its jets. Mr. Frost and his assistants tinkered away at the problems for another year, but had still not mastered them by the winter of 1960 when Spud Potocki, a former Polish air force flier, took the prototype for its first flight. Ernie Happe, another British engineer, was one of the few allowed to watch. "We were standing around it, and it was tethered with three cables to stop it flipping. It just went up a couple of feet off the ground, and Potocki was sitting in the cabin fiddling around with the controls, trying to make it do what it was supposed to." Over the next few months, as Mr. Potocki attained a feel for the delicate controls, he was allowed to roam around the Avro compound, dodging in and out of hangars. Mr. Raeburn would often look out of his workshop window and see it floating by. "He would go up and down and hover over the concrete apron and look in the doors of the hangars. I remember the wind would suck the ice off the puddles and they would float around in the air like plates of glass." Avro's management was overjoyed to see its flying saucer take to the air. The publicity department began designing brochures to capitalize on the aircraft's boundless potential for the day when the shroud of secrecy would drop away. It was to be called the Avrocar, and it would spawn a string of civilian and military spinoffs. There would be an Avrowagon for the family of the future, an Avroangel (an air ambulance that would zip to the scene of an accident and land on the spot) and an Avropelican for air-sea rescues and anti-submarine warfare. Ken Palfrey, a draughtsman on the project, remembers Mr. Frost's far-reaching hopes. "He was planning to make one four times as big, to move troops in and out of battle, like helicopters do now." The giant troop carriers would lurk under the enemy radar, drop their passengers and then zip into the stratosphere before the other side even spotted them. Mr. Happe recalls Mr. Frost excitedly visualizing the craft bouncing off the upper layers of the atmosphere, crossing continents in a single bound. The reality was more mundane. The Avrocar hovered happily close to solid ground but became dangerously unstable at heights over 2.5 metres, however much Spud Potocki struggled with the controls. The USAF wanted to fit it with a tailplane to test whether that would correct the problem, but Mr. Frost, a design purist, refused to countenance the idea. "He wouldn't have it," Mr. Palfrey recalls. "When the Americans suggested that, it was about the only time I ever saw him angry." Mr. Frost insisted he could fix the problems, but the U.S. military was rapidly losing interest. After spending $7.5-million, the Defence Department pulled the plug at the end of 1961, killing the Avrocar. Mr. Frost left the country a bitter man. "He was completely fed up," Mr. Palfrey says. "It was a sad story. He was a fine guy. A gentleman." The designer ended up in Auckland, where he spent the rest of his days dreaming up gadgets for Air New Zealand, such as a hydraulic tail dock to allow engineers easy access to commercial planes. But it was small beer compared to the cosmic ambitions of Project Y, and the sense of betrayal was as keen as ever when he finally retired in May of 1979. In his valedictory interviews, Mr. Frost told the local press that he had been robbed of credit for inventing the Hovercraft by Sir Christopher Cockerell. The irony was that, at Malton, Mr. Frost's eyes had been so set on the skies he failed to spot the Avrocar's ground-hugging potential under his nose. Within a few days of leaving his job, he died. He was 63. The legend of Project Y lives on in the Web pages of committed ufologists. Some speculate that it had been a stunning success, and the litany of design errors and disappointments recalled by Avro veterans was merely a cover story. Others believe the project was merely a smokescreen for the Pentagon's "real" flying saucer project being masterminded in secret bases such as Roswell, perhaps by mysterious superannuated Nazis such as Dr Miethe. As for secret weapon 606A, the prototype is gathering dust in a corner of a Maryland warehouse that serves as a storage facility for the National Air and Space Museum. Jack Walker, a veteran pilot who shows visitors around, cannot understand why anyone would want to see it, and warns me not to get too close lest I be abducted by aliens. The burnished metal disc, about 15 metres across, is lying unsung and forlorn under the wing of a Second World War Black Widow fighter. The perspex bubble over the cabin has been removed, and its instrument panel is in a cardboard box somewhere else. But you can still see where the edges were charred in the effort to get John Frost's flawed vision off the ground.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:22:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:10:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:48:50 EDT >Subject: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >To: updates@globalserve.net >But the fascinating >thing was that I heard a sound which lasted during the time the >meteor was at maximum burn. It sounded a little like (to me, >anyway) a loud buzzing sound. Hi, Jim. What your heard was a relatively rare phenomenon called "electrophonic sound." For example, the great fireball of March 21, 1676 was accompanied by "crackling" and "hissing" sounds. Now, this really isn't sound as we understand it. Sound travels at about 1000 ft per second. The meteor is burning up at about 50 miles altitude, so there's no way you're going to see the meteor and hear its sound simultaneously. BUT--it is known that fireballs can emit VLF RADIO waves--in the range of 1-10 KHz. These waves travel essentially at the speed of light The mechanism by which they get converted to audible sound is not well understood, but it is believed that grass, buildings, etc. do the job of 'demodulation.' Electrophonic sound is a scientifically-accepted phenomenon--a team of astronomers went to a remote part of Eastern Europe to record sounds associated with the Leonids. It's not the Gripple this time, Jim! All the best, Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:57:29 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 01:00:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:29:47 +0100 >From: Dave Bowden <dave.bowden@cableinet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET> >>Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:27:46 +0100 >>>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:49:54 +0000 >>>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> <snip> >>>I do however remember someone (I can't think who at the moment) >>>putting forward the idea that the trained military personnel >>>involved mistook the local lighthouse for a UFO. If this were >>>the case then the military personnel involved were no more use >>>than a chocolate tea pot. >>Oh dear oh dear oh dear. >Oh dear oh dear oh dear Tim. >>How many 'trained military personnel' have you come across? >Oh let me think..... quite a few actually, most of my family >have worked for the MOD, I have friends who are in the forces. What we should be talking about is trained observers. I contend that apart from a few ROC people (Chris Gibson comes to mind) there are very, very few. The trained observer theory - if we can call it that, is a complete non-starter. >I have also done a lot of work for the RAF (non UFO so nothing >to get excited about). >>Just because you have a gun and can take orders means nothing >>and I'd have thought by now that this myth of the "trained >>observer" would have died given that it's been dealt with >>before. >>In the forces you're trained to do what you're told. >Well maybe in the days of 'Dads army' this might have been true, >these days troops are indeed expected to follow orders but also >to show some initiative. Really, tell the training people that! >>Given my knowledge of both Army and Air Force - lived on bases >>when younger etc. whole family in RAF etc. - I can honestly say >>that there is no special training for personnel regarding >>'what's up there'. >How old were you when lived on these bases? I'm assuming you >were civilian since you said 'lived on' and not 'stationed at'. Well actually I was in the Army Intelligence Corps for a while. No UFOs in hangars unfortunately (!). >Since civilians living on base are not privy to base ops I don't >understand why you thought it relevant to mention at all, unless >it's yet another case of 'credential flashing' we get too much >of that on this list already. Strange, because it's remarkable what you can find out if you ask the right people the right questions. >I too have lived on bases, I can remember when my Dad was >stationed at Dusseldorf in Germany for instance. Probably went to the same shops.... >I've never mentioned it before because it is also not relevant. >Just because I lived on the bases didn't mean I slept in hanger >18. >>Given the over one hundred years of family experience in RAF >>matters, some at a very high level, how come none of them heard >>about UFOs and cover-ups? >Well that's interesting Tim, so your family have been involved >in RAF matters since before the Wright brothers first >successfully powered flight in 1903. No need to make up cheap tacky comments. You and I both know that I mean combined experience. Give me strength. >What makes it even more interesting is that the RAF were not >formed until April 1918 (a combination of the RFC and the RNAS, >flying combined offensive patrols (COPs) as it was known back >then). See above, and talk sense! >If it was over one hundred years of family experience then >perhaps back in the 1890's they were involved in the Royal Kite >Force or maybe the 633 balloon squadron ;-) Now then Dave, get off your high horse and tell me about these trained observers. Just imagine; "Oh look Sarg, there's a Reticulan starcraft, model 3D." Tim M.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 99 12:39:04 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:50:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:50:01 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Fri, 24 Sep 99 09:51:15 PDT >>>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:48:39 -0500 >>>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 99 10:46:07 PDT Patient and gentle listfolk: >I have a right to my opinion. I have a right to voice my >observations. And you don't know who I know or what I know. >Based on your absolute lack of knowledge of me...you trash me. >OK. It being a free country, you have the right to your opinions. It being a free country, I have the right to challenge you when you fly off into malicious fantasy, a place for which you seem to have an appalling fascination. >>Yours is the cheapest sort of ad hominem strategy, and it gives >>me no reason to think well of you. You're precisely the sort of >>person who's poisoned the well of ufological discourse between, >>or so I think in my worst moments, redemption. Thank God that >>gentlemen like Bruce Maccabee have not been driven out of this >>field entirely. So long as they remain, there is some hope, >>however small, that civil discourse may survive. >Why would I care what you thought of me? And I haven't poisoned >anything. The pellet was dropped a long time ago. And I guess you figured the waters just couldn't get poisonous enough, so you decided to help them along. No wonder the taste in ufology's cup grows ever more bitter. >I know quite a bit about your involvement in Gulf Breeze. Since >I don't want to get my contact at CUFOS in trouble...I'll just >say that according to him/her, you were the one who did not want >to run anything negative about Gulf Breeze or Dr. Maccabee. >Since you were the editor, and no one else wanted the job, (too >much work) they didn't really want to pursue Gulf Breeze (with a >vengeance) because they thought you would quit. You did print >articles about Gulf Breeze but under protest. Now I suppose >this person could have been telling me a tale...but it could >also be true that back in the beginning of Gulf Breeze, you did >not want to rock the boat and only later, did you come to a firm >decision on your opinion of the case. If this is incorrect, set >me straight, I'll apologize. A small point: I became editor of IUR in 1985 because Allen Hynek asked me to, for the same reason that Mark Rodeghier became CUFOS scientific director. Mark and I were among the persons Allen hand-picked to continue the organization as he conceived it. He did that because he trusted us and respected our judgments and intellects. The last letter I received from Allen, just a few months before he died, told me how proud he was of the job I was doing for IUR and CUFOS. Beyond that: What utter, utter rubbish. You just can't stop yourself, can you? The stuff you've written is simply your, or somebody's, invention. It is the sort of thing you traffic in routinely; in your philosophy, good names are there only to be trashed. Gulf Breeze was indeed a confusing and in many ways heartbreaking episode, and it put me at odds with longtime, valued friends, especially Budd Hopkins, who was hurt because I could not accept his word on and judgment about Ed Walters's probity. I know Bruce Maccabee less well than I know Budd, but I like and respect him, too. I also thought that Bob Boyd, someone to whom I have never been close, went after Gulf Breeze with all the balance and objectivity of a grand inquisitor. Still, though I tried to keep an open mind and listened to all rational voices, nothing ever overcame my doubts, and rather early on, it became clear, at least to me (I continue to respect those who disagree), that Boyd, whatever his shortcomings in investigative temperament, was in all likelihood right. All of us at CUFOS were in accord in our judgment that Walters was probably not a witness or a photographer to a genuine UFO case. The contents of IUR reflected that decision. Evans to the contrary, we ran a number of articles explaining, in unheated language, why we felt that way. It is depressing to deal with somebody -- and, sadly, ufology is full of that sort -- who cannot resist the temptation to personalize a dispute, to wax wildly self-righteous, and to assume that all who don't think exactly as he does are dishonorable individuals deserving only of contempt. Terry Evans is one of these people, and since he clearly has little to no interest in the complexities of reality, only in the cheap satisfactions of demonization, I respond only to keep the record straight for others, knowing full well that Evans's own response, as always, will be the upping of the volume and the deepening of the slander. I want to add that I have _always_ vocally favored internal criticism and policing within ufology. The notion, as Evans would have it, that I opposed it in the GB matter is ludicrous on its face to anyone who knows my history in ufology. Most recently, as some of you know, I lectured at a conference sponsored by my good friend Budd Hopkins. I stayed at his house. And yet my lecture was a skeptical reading of some basic ideas in the pro-abduction literature, including that by my good friends Budd Hopkins and David Jacobs. They didn't take offense. They didn't trash my character. They know that as much as I like and respect them, I have come to different conclusions. Budd and Dave, like Bruce, are sterling examples of how decent ufologists deal with debate and dissent within the field. They expect it, knowing that with all the mindboggling complexities inherent in the UFO phenomenon, honest people are often going to see things from differing perspectives. Having written as much as I have on ufological matters, I think I can state unequivocally that I have composed more critical analysis of ufology's and ufologists' shortcomings and failings than anyone alive. >Same source on Roswell. You have no "source" at CUFOS. You're just making this up, since no one at CUFOS could have testified to things that didn't happen. I think I know to whom you are alluding as your authority -- he isn't, by the way -- and you are mischaracterizing who he is. >If CUFOS backed the first Roswell book, >why didn't you keep some of the profits? Maybe this person was >wrong? If so, I would like to know. (If this person is lying, >then you have a traitor in your midst.) I have not the slightest idea here what our correspondent, whose ignorance is as vast as his self-righteousness is tedious, is talking about. This is crazy, and I'm trying to use a polite word. Is there any reason to pay attention to this guy? Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 99 12:44:33 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:54:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:02:57 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Sat, 25 Sep 99 10:57:43 PDT >>>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:34:38 -0500 >>>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 99 22:33:51 PDT >>>>>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:14:35 -0500 >>>>>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>Her name is Kimberly Blair. The articles are in the Pennsacola >>>Independent Weekly. July 8, 1999. Vol.1, No.2. Its quite a >>>lengthy article. 6 pages. >>>Is this enough for you? >>Patient and gentle listfolk: >>I rest my case. This doesn't even rise to the level of >>"anecdotal evidence" -- and remember, our correspondent was >>trashing somebody the other day for taking that sort of thing >>seriously. Here, lacking even anecdotal evidence (i.e., >>specific reports by individuals who seem credible and whose >>claims are investigatable), the reporter is reduced to passing >>on vague rumors and complains that Cook and Walters don't behave >>as she would under the circumstance. I am not impressed; nor >>should any onlooker who knows anything at all about what >>constitutes evidence. >Being told to write up an obvious observation of planets as a >UFO report is not vague. Nor is her observation of Walters' >apparent nonchalance. The physical threats to her friend. As I said, this doesn't even rise to the level of "anecdotal evidence." It's just unverified claims and rumors, of which all sorts swirled around Gulf Breeze in those heady days -- many of them, of course, alleging the truthfulness of Walters's sightings and photos. The latter, of course, you would reject (and I think rightly) as worthless. The former, since they serve your purpose, are heralded as deeply meaningful truth. Let me repeat: I'm not impressed. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And German From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:45:54 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 01:14:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And German >Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:23:45 -0400 >From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And German Disc Technology >Source: SIGHTINGS >http://www.sightings.com/ufo4/canadadisc_u.htm >Canada's 'Avro' Flying >Saucer - And German >Disc Technology >By Julian Borger >The Guardian >9-25-99 >It Came From Outer Toronto... >Avro Canada is best remembered for the ill-fated Arrow, the >supersonic jet fighter shelved by Ottawa in 1959. Now, >newly-released CIA documents shed new light on another of the >company's dreams - a flying saucer. If anyone has read my book - UFO Revelation - theyll notice remarkably similar material. Borger's second-hand report only barely scratches the surface if the Man-Made UFO cover-up. In issue#3 of 'BEYOND' I'll be presenting a new and remarkable exclusive on my latest research into this (deliberately avoided) subject. If anyone wants to get some decent information on secret disc technologies then I suggest they contact me. There is nothing new in Borgers' report to the extent that he even emailed me looking for more material! Quite remarkable! Tim Matthews.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights From: Carlos G. Roselli <croselli@email.ypf.com.ar> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:55:40 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 01:10:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:56:28 EDT >Subject: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights >To: updates@globalserve.net >Dear Errol and List: >I wrote a post on being able to hear a meteor. Today I would >like to describe some recent "sightings" of truly unknown >objects to the list. I am interested in whether others have seen >such, and if anyone has any idea as to what they may be. Swamp >gas theories and pelican explanations (which include geese) are >not acceptable, please... thank you. >In the evening hours, before full dark, I've seen what look like >extremely bright objects, points of light, pure white (no >visible color) and about magnitude zero to negative one. The >objects shoot across 20 to 30 degrees of sky, appear to be far >away, and (sometimes) zig zag during the time they are visible. >They leave no discernable trail, make no sound, just appear and >disappear. And they move extremely rapidly. The time they take >to traverse 20 degrees is less than a second. >On one or two occasions these "objects" appeared to be close but >I had no way of making this determination, near or far, there >was no perspective, nothing to use as a reference of distance, >just my gut feeling. They always appear in an area of clear sky, >not near trees or buildings or any other structures. <snip> Hello List, I am an Argentinian geologist, also a witness of these Lights. To my knowledge, the only theory that may explain these kind of lights is the Tectonic Strain Theory [if curious, see John Derr's article in Experientia 42 (1986), Birkhauser Verlag, CH-4010 Basel/Switzerland for an excellent correlation and statistical analysis for the Yakima area]. The sighting should be correlated to an earthquake/microearthquake database of the area in question. In fact, John Derr himself encouraged me to carry out a similar study here. In 1987, july 14th and 15th, I saw "little hemispheres" of white to white orange lights, floating over the topography at West of Uritorco Mt. [1980], Cordoba province. An interesting fact was that these Lights turned to red during the sunset. The sighting included three to seven objects, at more or less 15 km from us, for 45 minutes or so, starting at 19.00 local time, moving fast. I could see them in detail with 8x30 binoculars from our campsite all the time. Among other observations in that region, this one was one of the most detailed sightings I 've ever had. Sightings there were frequent until 1991 in Cordoba. It is my idea that many of these sightings could be explained through TST. Of course, these "little hemispheres", or "fast moving lights" [as Jim Mortellaro calls them] are just a part of a whole family of anomalous light phenomena, still unexplained or only with a few clues to the answer. Hope this helps. Carlos G. Roselli
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: Jacqueline Cosford <millpond@home.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:58:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 01:35:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:48:50 EDT >Subject: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >To: updates@globalserve.net >The very first time I saw a meteor, I heard it! >What we saw was most definitely a meteor, it streaked across >maybe 10 or 15 degrees of sky, made the correct trail and left >the right amount of debris slightly behind. But the fascinating >thing was that I heard a sound which lasted during the time the >meteor was at maximum burn. It sounded a little like (to me, >anyway) a loud buzzing sound. Hi Jim I've been following the responses re: meteor sounds and it looks as if your question as to whether or not this is possible has been answered. It seems that the buzzing noise is quite common, but I wonder if anyone has ever heard "whistling"? I live in a suburb of Toronto and quite a few years back was outside star gazing when I heard a whistling noise, and as I looked up I saw a meteor pass over my head. This meteor was very low and travelled in a horizontal path for what seemed a long time, then gently arched towards the horizon and burned up near to where the David Dunlop Observatory is located. I've also witnessed a fireball or bolide exploding, but interestingly enough, there was _no_ sound. Now, speaking of meteors. Did anyone living near Toronto see a green fireball on Saturday night at approximately 11:30 p.m.? I saw this from my window as it headed east and quickly burned up about 20 degrees from the horizon. Thought this may interest someone??? regards Jacquie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:14:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 01:32:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:55:08 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos <snip> >>>As an observation. You say that the bricks etc., make the hood >>>rise, however in looking at photo 19 in the book, it looks like >>>the camera angle is downward and the hood is horizontal. >To me it looks as though the beam of light from the UFO on the >road was photographed, with respect to horizontal, from about >an angle of 1 degree or less. The weight in the back cased the truck to tilt several degrees (rear lower than normal). In photo 19 the camera angle is downward, but the bent hood was tilted slightly "upward". A normal, unbent hood has a downward slope from the windshield to the front, and at the front of the hood there is a continuous downward curve. Such a curve would reflect any light in front of the truck, as can be demonstrated with most trucks, cars, etc. that have downward curving hoods. In the photo one sees at the bottom _two_ very faint but definitely visible nearly horizontal thick "lines" of dim blue color. Each of these horizontal thick lines is a reflection in the hood of the dim sky above the tree line. The _lower_ of these two thick lines is the reflection of the sky that, from optical analysis on can show, _should_ be there. The upper faint blue thick line is ALSO a reflection of the sky and it would NOT be there in a normal hood. The fact that it is there is confirmation that the hoo was bent. IN other words, in a sense the accident Ed had (grader ? backing into his truck) was "encoded" into the picture. It took some analysis to understand why there were two reflections of the sky in the hood, but once this was understood from the optical point of view, essentially a "bent mirror", it was possible to explain why the UFO light was not reflected. An experiment was carried out with a flashlight held at various heights and abou 200 ft in front of the truck. At low altitudes there was no reflection although there would have been had the truck hood not been bent. These experiments were don without loading in the truck. With loading the minimum height for reflection would have been even higher than without loading. Incidently, the thick dark line (area) in the hood reflection, that lies between the upper and lower dim blue (sky reflection) thick lines is the reflection of the dark trees that appear ABOVE the top of the UFO. <snip> >>Sainio got the originals because I asked Ed to send him the >>originals. >You heard through the grapevine? You were the prime >investigator on this case...you were the man!...and Mr. Andrus >did not tell you about Hyzer's analysis? You should have been t>he FIRST person consulted. Andrus, I guess, wanted a completely independent analysis. Why it was done anonymously I don't know. Maybe Hyzer wanted anonymity because of the "flaky" UFO field or research he was entering (bad for business?). Anyway, I was told by someone that an independent analysis was being carried out. Not until I received a copy of Hyzer's analysis about 6 months after he started did I know any details about the analysis or who was doing it. >>As I said above, Hyzer did his analysis before I even knew there >>was a playing field. <snip> >>>>>Interestingly, in all the pictures that Ed Walters took at his >>>>>home, not one neighbor ever reported seeing any objects that Ed >>>>>Walters photographed. Not one. There again, that does not mean >>>>>that Ed Walters photographs are not real, but it is interesting >>>>to note that not one neighbor saw any object that Ed Walters> >>>>photographed.> >>>Wrong. the people across the street had a sighting in early >>>April. >>>There you go. Throwing in unsubstantiated claim. Which >>>neighbors? And where is the written, dated report?> >>There you go. Throwing out another unsubstantiated allegation. >>This was first mentioned in "Gulf Breeze Without Ed" published >>in the 1991 MUFON Proceedings, page 199. In the article I have >>written that the witnesses lived "close to Ed" to prevent their >>identity from being discovered since they had reported to MUFON >>and wanted to remain anonymous. But when I wrote close, I meant >>close.> >Anonymity is understandable, but this can just be lumped in to >hear-say. Is there a report filed with MUFON, investigated, >dated and signed?> Yes.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: 'Reflections...' From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:30:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 01:41:48 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Reflections...' >Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:57:18 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: 'Reflections...' >Bruce Maccabee, >In reading your article: Reflections On The Lack Of Reflection, >UFO Newsletter, 1992. You mention the experiments carried out in >the summer of 1988 by Mr. Walters. >It was the same truck parked near the place of the original >photograph. >Can you tell me if Mr. Walters had the bricks in the truck at >the time the 1988 experiment was performed? If so how many? > >It is unclear. >Then you go to "recent" experiments using the same model >truck, saying the recent experiment used bricks. >How many bricks were used? There were no cinder blocks in the truck when the reflection experiments were carried out, as I have stated in an earlier message. Hence the minimum altitude for light reflection was determined for a "level" truck. (These experiments were carried out in the original truck, however.) Several years later, unfortunately after Ed had sold the original truck, an experiment was done to estmate the tilt caused by loading of the rear end. Ed used cinder blocks (40 lbs/block) with an identical truck (Ed borrowed for a short time) and added block at a time up to a his estimate of the number of blocks he had at the time. I don't recall the exact number (buried in "old data"; could look it up) but I believe was close to (or equal to) a dozen. >From his measurements of the depression of the rear of the truck I determined that the addition of these blocks caused a tilt of a couple of degrees.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:00:57 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 01:39:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:02:35 EDT >Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:48:50 EDT >>Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:29:44 -0400 >>Subject: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >>The very first time I saw a meteor, I heard it! It was in the >>Adirondack Mountains, where I spent most of my summers, and I >>was a very little Gesundt. I was sitting outside of our cabin on >>a cliff overlooking Lake George, with a sky chock full of stars. >>It was a very clear night and the time of year was mid August, >>about 1955. >><snip> >Dear Jim, >The buzzing sound you heard associated with the meteor fireball >has been reported in the scientific literature for the past 200 >years, but was generally pooh-poohed by many scientists until >fairly recently. (Dr. Frank Drake, e.g., in "UFOs, A Scientific >Debate," dismissed the phenomenon as physically impossible, and >instead tried to attribute it to psychological aberrations of >the perceptual system. This was part of Drake's attack on UFO >witnesses as unreliable, since meteor witnesses, in his >estimation, were unreliable as well. Others, however, such as >Dr. Lincoln LaPaz, the New Mexico astronomer and meteor >specialist whose name is also associated with the Roswell case, >green fireball phenomenon, and secret USAF UFO investigations in >the Southwest, was well aware of the reported buzzing sounds and >took them quite seriously.) >About 15% of witnesses interviewed about major fireball >sightings have consistently reported hearing these meteor >sounds. Most witnesses describe the sound as similar to bacon >sizzling. There have also been sounds reported by some >associated with auroras. <snip> >Rest assured that you are not crazy -- at least in this one >instance. 8-) >David Rudiak Whew! One down and four hundred to go! I've asked this question in a number of venues, without explanation. Thank you. In fact, I remember that the evening was cool, that there was nothing around me except my dad's 1953 Plymouth Cranbrook. Hanging on the rear fender (there were real fenders in those days, chrome plated, no less) was a twelve foot, center loaded whip antenna tuned to the 80 meter (3.5MHz) band and worked on 160 Meters as well. Also attached to that poor fender was a six meter "Halo" antenna, attached to a 1/2 inch aluminum pipe, drilled full of holes to make it lighter as well as sing in the wind. Attached to the antenna was ham gear operating on the 160 meter band. Which for you novices out there, is (or used to be) VLF. Every time I hear a meteor, and I still do, there are lots of skyhooks in the vicinity. Of course, not for a moment did I think I was crazy. But it's nice to have that verified. Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 New Indian UFO Website From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:10:49 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:29:56 -0400 Subject: New Indian UFO Website Source: 'alt.alien.visitors'. Stig *** From: "Prashant Solomon" <chintels@vsnl.com> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: New UFO website about cases in India Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:55:30 +0530 Organization: VSNL Hi there! There is a new website covering UFO sightings and encounters with Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence in India. Check it out at: http://ufoindia.8m.com It is still new and will be constantly updated as new cases are reported. If you think this will interest any of your friends, relatives or associates, please forward this message to them. Thanks Prashant Solomon Webmaster UFO India
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 CPR-Canada News: New Formation Near Edmonton, From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:51:53 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:33:34 -0400 Subject: CPR-Canada News: New Formation Near Edmonton, CPR-Canada News News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 New Crop Formation Near Edmonton, Alberta September 28, 1999 _____________________________ Editor: Paul Anderson _____________________________ Preliminary Report - September 28 By Paul Anderson Another crop circle formation was reported yesterday to CPR-Canada, near Edmonton, Alberta (the second in the area this year). Reported by the farmer, Rusty Manuel, and Judy Arndt, a local researcher (who has done wonderful field surveys and sampling of the Acadia Valley, Alberta and Neilburg, Saskatchewan formations this year). Formation was initially discovered September 21 by a work crew in the field (barley). Formation consists of a large 80 - 85 foot centre circle, with rounded "appendages" on either side, and two other 20 foot circles, one on each of the other sides (please refer to preliminary diagram attached, � Paul Anderson, based on fax copy from Rusty Manuel). There is only about two feet of standing crop between each of the two smaller circles and the large centre circle. Farmer has swathed around the formation, leaving it intact. Also shown on local ITV news. Further details, field report, images when available. This is the sixteenth formation reported for this year. Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada _____________________________ Circle Phenomena in Canada Report Archive 1999: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html A reminder for all Canadian subscribers / readers - your assistance is welcome and needed - ANY reports of other possible circles this year, please do let us know as soon as possible! See Reporting and Field Research Guidelines on the web site for more information: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reporting.html REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522 _____________________________ CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International), and is published periodically or as breaking news develops, with the latest news and information and is available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or "unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.ca CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions. Forward all correspondence to: CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Office Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 � Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 1999 edmonton299.gif
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: RPIT - A Reminder From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:45:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:43:22 -0400 Subject: Re: RPIT - A Reminder >From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 05:10:02 EDT >Subject: Re: RPIT - A Reminder [was... Re: The Challenge] >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:21:19 EDT >>Subject: Re: RPIT - A Reminder >>To: updates@globalserve.net Dear Gildas and All Just a couple of points... >>The only unimpeachable solid evidence yet identified regarding >>the Roswell Event, the photographs taken on July 8, 1947, in >>the Headquarters, 8th Air Force offices of General Roger Ramey >>at Fort Worth, Texas, have been studied diligently now for more >>than a year by the international volunteer RPIT (Roswell Photo >>Interpretation Team) reinforced. ><snip> >>Serious comments and suggestions from any ufologists have been >>and continue to be invited. The first annual report of the work >>of RPIT also will be posted to the web shortly. >To Mr Bond Johnson, Kevin Randle, David Rudiak, and the List >I wish to repeat, one last time, what I wrote in recent messages >(September 1 and 7): >General DuBose had revealed, in the course of a long interview >with Jaime Shandera, published in the MUFON UFO Journal of >January 1991, how the balloon and radar target debris had been >brought to the office of General Ramey, on Tuesday July 8, 1947 > - he brought them! >He explained, clearly enough, how he had met a B-29 which >brought to Fort Worth the balloon debris in a canvas pouch, on >direct orders from the Pentagon: >"I took the pouch in Ramey's office. In it was a bunch of trash. >We unbuckled it and laid it out on the floor : it was cold >potatoes as far as I was concerned". >He confirmed later to Kevin Randle that he never saw the real >debris, which explains why he said that the debris had not been >switched! >All this is pretty simple and clear, and I am at loss to >understand all that fuss going on about the balloon photographs, >which only feed further confusion on Roswell. There is something _very_ wrong with Dubose's story _if_ we are to accept this is the Marcel debris transfer flight of the 8th. 1) No mention at all is made of the unusual nature of the flight it's passengers, RAAF Deputy Base Commander Jennings and of course RAAF IO Maj Marcel. 2) The mode of transport of the debris is wrong, Marcel and others confirm that the debris was wrapped in brown paper packages and cardboard boxes. (packages of this type are seen in the background of the JBJ FW pictures, one at least is still intact) 3) The quantity of debris is wrong, again as attested to by witnesses. Far more debris than a single canvas pouch's worth was reported on the Marcel transfer flight as noted in (2). >Now Kevin Randle says (message of September 11) that this >interview of DuBose by Shandera is not corroborated: >"...Shandera didn't make notes and didn't record the >conversation so that we only have his unsupported statements." >That is very regrettable indeed. It would certainly have been >appropriate at that time to obtain confirmation of DuBose >statement, with audio or videotape records. That would have >saved us a tremendous waste of time discussing the balloon >pictures. Was DuBose being liberal with the truth when he gave his statements?, or because of divided loyalty between his military oath and his feelings that it was time the story was told, did he only give us a part of the story, and that, though true was time shifted by a day or so?. The small quantity of debris brought into Roswell by Mack Brazel on Sunday 6th is much more in keeping with the quantity described by DuBose and a number of authors have concluded it is this debris being transported through to Washington that he is actually describing. >Where did this balloon debris come from? _That_ is _the_ crunch isn't it? Was It Balloon Debris?? We do have one statement that _should_ be truthfull in all the tall tales that were given out in those few confused hours, and it's actually given out by one of the major players in generating the confusion, FWAAF IO Kirton. Though at 5.30pm FW time he plainly told the Dallas Morning News that, all the fuss was over nothing more than a High Altitude Weather Device and the flight to Wright Field was off.(note this was 30mins BEFORE Irving Newton who was quoted later as giving the "official" ID of the debris actually came on duty that night) Aprox 30 mins after this telephone interview he was telling the FBI office in Dallas a very different story. In the teletype recovered under the FOIA and dated/timed 8-7-47/6.17pm an FBI operative informs FBI Headquarters of a far more complex story. Can we assume that these two official bodies would inform each other of the real facts?, That FBI Teletype reads: The XXXXX's are in the original, the ******'s are blackouts on the copy used in this transcription but in "clear" copies show Maj Kirton's name. -------------------------------------------------------------------- FBI DALLAS 7-8-47 6-17PM DIRECTOR AND SAC, CINCINNATI- URGENT FLYING DISC, INFORMATION CONCERNING. *********, HEADQUARTERS EIGHTH AIR FORCE, TELEPHONICALLY ADVISED THIS OFFICE THAT AN OBJECT PURPORTING TO BE A FLYING DISC WAS RE COVERED NEAR ROSWELL, NEW MEXICO, THIS DATE. THE DISC IS HEXAGONAL IN SHAPE AND WAS SUSPENDED FROM A BALLOON BY CABLE, WHICH BALLOON WAS APPROXIMATELY TWENTY FEET IN DIAMETER. ********** FURTHER ADVISED THAT THE OBJECT FOUND RESEMBLES A HIGH ALTITUDE WEATHER BALLOON WITH A RADAR REFLECTOR, BUT THAT TELEPHONIC CONVERSATION BETWEEN THEIR OFFICE AND WRIGHT FIELD HAD NOT XXXXXXXXX BORNE OUT THIS BELIEF. DISC AND BALLOON BEING TRANSPORTED TO WRIGHT FIELD BY SPECIAL PLANE FOR EXAMINATION INFORMATION PROVIDED THIS OFFICE BECAUSE OF NATIONAL INTEREST IN CASE. XXXX AND FACT THAT NATIONAL BROADCASTING COMPANY, ASSOCIATED PRESS, AND OTHERS ATTEMPTING TO BREAK STORY OF LOCATION OF DISC TODAY. ******* ****** ADVISED WOULD REQUEST WRIGHT FIELD TO ADVISE CINCINNATI OFFICE RESULTS OF EXAMINATION. NO FURTHER INVESTIGATION BEING CONDUCTED. WYLY END CXXXX ACK IN ORDER UA 92 FBI CI MJW BPI H8 8-38 PM O 6-22 PM OK FBI WASH DC VH ------------------------------------------------------------------- Examining the above can we make a number of deductions. 1) The Fort Worth Air Base confirm an object purporting to be a "flying disc" WAS recovered near Roswell. 2) The object found "RESEMBLES a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector". "hexagonal in shape" and a balloon "approximately twenty feet in diameter". 3) But telephone calls between the Air Force at Fort Worth and Wright Field "HAD NOT BOURNE OUT THIS BELIEF". 4) The object(s) WERE being transported on to Wright Field by a special flight out of Fort Worth. 5) The AF was informing the FBI because the story had "got out" to the news media. Though they didn't mention THEY gave it out. It seems, though it resembled a weather balloon/reflector there were features which caused enough concern to bring it to the attention of the technical staff at Wright Field and, as it was being forwarded to them (4), enough concern to justify the thought it WAS NOT just a simple weather balloon and reflector. The story this teletype is saying though, is at total odds with the story being given out to the press at the time from the FWAAF by the self same IO, Maj Kirton. So..... Remember the debris in JBJ's FW photographs and then remember two vital quotes from that official FBI Teletype, sent just an hour or two after JBJ had taken those pictures and while he was infact still processing them. 1) " ...THE OBJECT FOUND RESEMBLES A HIGH ALTITUDE WEATHER BALLOON WITH A RADAR REFLECTOR... " 2) " ...BUT THAT TELEPHONIC CONVERSATION BETWEEN THEIR OFFICE AND WRIGHT FIELD HAD NOT BORNE OUT THIS BELIEF." In other words Maj Kirton officially informed the Dallas FBI office that though at first it LOOKED like a beat up balloon and reflector. After consulting with Wright Field they realised... It wasn't. >I think David Rudiak has made a good guess: possibly directly >from White Sands, where balloon trains had been recuparated and >probably stored there. It's even possible that the Fort Worth >debris came from a Mogul balloon train (although we don't see in >the pictures any tape with flower designs). >The question remains; Why did they issue a press release in >Roswell, in the first place, which had to be debunked so >laboriously in Fort Worth? In short, when Marcel and Cavitt made >their report to Blanchard on Tuesday morning at 6 am, there were >immediately in a state of extreme urgency, with two possible >scenarios: >First scenario: the discovery of the debris field was going to >go out of control. >Second scenario: they were going to cover up the discovery. >The decision to publish the press release was probably a >brillant move to answer the two scenarios. > >When then gained control of the debris field toward the end of >the morning, they could then put in place the debunking >operation in Fort Worth. All this worked very well. But the teams from Alamagordo AAF were at that very time on the 8th identifying _and_ recovering the remains of the NYU Flight 11 series launches from the day before. Without a scrap of fuss or misidentification. Neil. -- * * * * * * * * Neil Morris. /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\ Dept of Physics. 1 1 Univ of Manchester 0 0 Schuster Labs. 1 Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES 1 Brunswick St. 0 0 Manchester. 1 1 UK. \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/ G8KOQ E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk Roswell and Alien Autopsy Archive-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ Dave Willetts Home Page-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/ Mike Sterling Home Page-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/mike-s/ Tim Morgan Home Page -> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/tim-m/ * * * * * * * *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 'Smoking' Gun-Metal-Gray Triangular Craft Taped From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:39:04 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:04:59 -0400 Subject: 'Smoking' Gun-Metal-Gray Triangular Craft Taped Let's Go to the Video Tape!! A "Smoking" Gun-Metal-Gray Triangular Craft? 9.28.99 Two photos were selected from a portion of the home video taken by John Vye on the morning of September 7th. http://members.aol.com/ufoseek/ (1365 Kb Avi format, click image after loading to start the video clip) http://www.ufoseek.org/tampaufo.avi The craft displays distinctive lights, especially at the (3) corners, which reflect off its metallic-looking frame revealing its symmetrical, triangular shape. The upper surface area when the craft tilts downward seems to be a raised platform or bridge. I'm amazed how such a sighting could be mistaken for a rocket booster re-entering the atmosphere! The craft was observed to be moving very slowly. It tilts and reorients itself. This is not what a falling rocket booster does! The news report is rife with disinformation and confusion. It is truly frightening how this type of craft can flaunt itself in our skies and be explained away and dismissed so easily. This video speaks for itself. Listen to the full audio portion of the news broadcast. (Real-audio 280 Kb). Note: Serious UFO researchers who would like to obtain a copy of the complete video tape please contact me at - ufoseek@aol.com I am not selling anything as I have already received some nice offers for the FOX TV Tampa video! There is a service that archives all the TV news broadcasts and you can get a copy of any aired news story from them. Ignatius Graffeo www.ufoseek.org UFONEWSTODAY.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: The Challenge From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:17:40 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:18:06 -0400 Subject: Re: The Challenge >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:48:43 -0700 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Lynne Bishop <lynnebishop@softhome.net> >Subject: Re: The Challenge >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:09:42 EDT >>Subject: Re: The Challenge >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:28:51 -0700> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Lynne Bishop <lynnebishop@softhome.net> >>Subject: Re: The Challenge >>John Velez said <snipped for brevity>: >>Everyone should take the time to write to Budd Hopkins, David >>Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, John Carpenter et al and -ask >>them- to collectively contribute any materials they may be in >>possession of that may help to advance what little is known >>about UFO abductions. If it turns out that they _don't_ have >>anything of value in stock then that fact should also be known. ______________________________ >>KRandle responded: >>I think you might have found the problem. There is nothing in >>stock of value. ______________________________ Okay, since this is the comment that has evoked the majority of the responses, let us revisit it. John Velez suggested that if there was nothing of value in the hidden data of the abduction researchers, then we should know it, meaning, I believe, that all information should be shared. John, if I have misinterpreted your meaning here, I apologize. With this I agree. However, I added the condition that the researcher who discovered the information be allowed to reveal it for the proper credit. Those who have conducted the research are certainly the ones who should determine when, where and how it will be revealed. I then added the comment that I believed that John might have discovered the problem and that was that there were no hidden data that would answer our questions. This means, quite simply, that there may not be any evidence of a conclusive, independent, and scientific nature that would lead to the extraterrestrial, or any of the other hypotheses, that surround the tales of abduction. I meant, quite simply, that this might be the reason that nothing has been revealed because there is nothing to reveal. I didn't mean to suggest it isn't there, only that in my experience, as we chased tales of the "real" scientific and verifiable physical evidence, that there was always an excuse as to why we couldn't get to that point. In some cases it was because there was nothing to find. Here, until all the data are in hand, we have little more than speculations. It was my speculation that the reason here was that the physical, independent, corroborative data simply did not exist. That would be the reason that nothing had been revealed. There was nothing to reveal. Does this mean that we shouldn't look? Of course not. We always have to look, because the one time we don't might be the one time that there is something of substance there. I would not advocate a position of refusing to look. So, not to put too fine a point on it, I was merely speculating that John might have been right when he suggested that if there was nothing of value in these hidden files, we should learn that. I was suggesting that the reason the files have not been made public is because there was nothing of value in them... meaning that the evidence would not be conclusive. It was a speculation based on prior experience and was a suggestion that we not be too disappointed if nothing new was learned. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: Sheree Cox <cox@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:21:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:58:27 -0400 >From: Jacqueline Cosford >millpond@home.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto >updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >Now, speaking of meteors. Did anyone living near Toronto see a >green fireball on Saturday night at approximately 11:30 p.m.? >I saw this from my window as it headed east and quickly burned >up about 20 degrees from the horizon. >Thought this may interest someone??? >regards >Jacquie Hi Jacquie: I believe I saw something similar in the Western skies in Hamilton [Ontario] around 7:00 pm on Saturday. There were 4 fireballs in the sky. I didnt see anything in the newspaper or on the news. I looked through our binoculars and they looked like some sort of meteor. Kind of cool!! Sheree Cox :)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 02:03:43 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:26:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights >From: Carlos G. Roselli <croselli@email.ypf.com.ar> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:55:40 -0300 >Subject: Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:56:28 EDT >>Subject: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Dear Errol and List: >>I wrote a post on being able to hear a meteor. Today I would >>like to describe some recent "sightings" of truly unknown >>objects to the list. I am interested in whether others have seen >>such, and if anyone has any idea as to what they may be. Swamp >>gas theories and pelican explanations (which include geese) are >>not acceptable, please... thank you. >>In the evening hours, before full dark, I've seen what look like >>extremely bright objects, points of light, pure white (no >>visible color) and about magnitude zero to negative one. The >>objects shoot across 20 to 30 degrees of sky, appear to be far >>away, and (sometimes) zig zag during the time they are visible. >>They leave no discernable trail, make no sound, just appear and >>disappear. And they move extremely rapidly. The time they take >>to traverse 20 degrees is less than a second. >>On one or two occasions these "objects" appeared to be close but >>I had no way of making this determination, near or far, there >>was no perspective, nothing to use as a reference of distance, >>just my gut feeling. They always appear in an area of clear sky, >>not near trees or buildings or any other structures. ><snip> >Hello List, >I am an Argentinian geologist, also a witness of these Lights. >To my knowledge, the only theory that may explain these kind of >lights is the Tectonic Strain Theory [if curious, see John >Derr's article in Experientia 42 (1986), Birkhauser Verlag, >CH-4010 Basel/Switzerland for an excellent correlation and >statistical analysis for the Yakima area]. The sighting should >be correlated to an earthquake/microearthquake database of the >area in question. In fact, John Derr himself encouraged me to >carry out a similar study here. Thank you for your presentation of the theory of TST, Carlos. I live within 50 miles of New York City; I am north of the city in fact. There are no faults nearby except one very deep into the earth below Hartsdale, where I presently live. This fault produced a 4.3 on October 19, 1985 epicentered not more than 1/2 mile from my condominium. It has not been known to be active before or after this temblor. There is a known fault about 18 miles NNW of me along the Hudson River at Indian Point. This fault is not active, and there was a nuclear power generating facility built literally over the fault. >In 1987, july 14th and 15th, I saw "little hemispheres" of white >to white orange lights, floating over the topography at West of >Uritorco Mt. [1980], Cordoba province. An interesting fact was >that these Lights turned to red during the sunset. The sighting >included three to seven objects, at more or less 15 km from us, >for 45 minutes or so, starting at 19.00 local time, moving fast. >I could see them in detail with 8x30 binoculars from our >campsite all the time. Among other observations in that region, >this one was one of the most detailed sightings I 've ever had. >Sightings there were frequent until 1991 in Cordoba. It is my >idea that many of these sightings could be explained through >TST. Of course, these "little hemispheres", or "fast moving >lights" [as Jim Mortellaro calls them] are just a part of a >whole family of anomalous light phenomena, still unexplained or >only with a few clues to the answer. Hope this helps. >Carlos G. Roselli The lights which I have witnessed, Carlos, are not hemispheres, nor do they have any shape. They are merely pinpoints. The color is very bright and very white light, moving extremely rapidly, never standing still, hovering or moving slowly enough for me to put a glass on them, let alone lift the Cam Corder, which is now always with me. One last addition to the mystery, these lights were seen (unfortunately only by me and my real estate representative) about 50 miles north of here, where we have recently purchased a new home. Of course, these may be related to TST, I am merely pointing out the differences we observed from your description. It may be undigested beef, underdone potato(e) or Gripple. But they are just too quick to catch on film. Thank you for the information. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights From: UFO-Finland <ufofinland@saunalahti.fi> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:31:36 +0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:28:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights Lhettj: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Vastaanottaja: <02 - UFO UpDates Subscribers :;> Lhetetty: 26. syyskuuta 1999 1:41 Aihe: UFO UpDate: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:56:28 EDT >Subject: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights >To: updates@globalserve.net >Dear Errol and List: >Today I would like to describe some recent "sightings" of truly unknown >objects to the list. I am interested in whether others have seen >such, and if anyone has any idea as to what they may be. Swamp >gas theories and pelican explanations (which include geese) are >not acceptable, please... thank you. >In the evening hours, before full dark, I've seen what look like >extremely bright objects, points of light, pure white (no >visible color) and about magnitude zero to negative one. The >objects shoot across 20 to 30 degrees of sky, appear to be far >away, and (sometimes) zig zag during the time they are visible. >They leave no discernable trail, make no sound, just appear and >disappear. And they move extremely rapidly. The time they take >to traverse 20 degrees is less than a second. >On one or two occasions these "objects" appeared to be close but >I had no way of making this determination, near or far, there >was no perspective, nothing to use as a reference of distance, >just my gut feeling. They always appear in an area of clear sky, >not near trees or buildings or any other structures. >I am quite serious about this and my previous post on being able >to "hear" meteors. This is not a Grippled Gesundt writing. >Jim Mortellaro Hi Jim, hi listmembers! Jim, could you please tell me a bit more, in detail? Did you see one light at the time, or many lights? If only one light at the time, me and some of my acquaintances saw the same thing. Once I saw one with my tiny brother (age then 13 yrs, I was adult then). These happenings are quite the similar you described. Only the one with my brother seen did frist fly straight, then suddenly turn to a zig zag - move, then a straight for a short while, then turned again to a zigzag. At the same time its brightness mysteriously started to fade looking like somebody was fooling around with a lamp. After the second flight path it vanished like diving to a pocket in the sky. Of couse, as persons knowing nothing about the miracles of the space we two kids were sure we had seen a flying saucer... Now, after many new things learned I think we saw a meteor or a satellite. I think its brightness started to fade, because it moved further from the light of the Earth and cities, and that`s when it couldn`t reflect any light no more. Why the zigzag? i don`t know, but I`m guessing an optical error, not because of the so called "tired eye", more like because we saw the zigzag *before* staring the object. I think the air or the atmosphere has "broke off" (= sorry my english folks!), and in the dark the observation isn�t quite the best think anyway, so what happeds at the atmosphere *makes* the object`s moving look like a zigzag. I would be very interested to hear any theories why this happends. Loves Minna L from Finland
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:01:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:27:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Mon, 27 Sep 99 12:39:04 PDT >I want to add that I have _always_ vocally favored internal >criticism and policing within ufology. The notion, as Evans >would have it, that I opposed it in the GB matter is ludicrous >on its face to anyone who knows my history in ufology. Most >recently, as some of you know, I lectured at a conference >sponsored by my good friend Budd Hopkins. I stayed at his >house. And yet my lecture was a skeptical reading of some basic >ideas in the pro-abduction literature, including that by my good >friends Budd Hopkins and David Jacobs. They didn't take >offense. They didn't trash my character. They know that as much >as I like and respect them, I have come to different >conclusions. Budd and Dave, like Bruce, are sterling examples >of how decent ufologists deal with debate and dissent within the >field. They expect it, knowing that with all the mindboggling >complexities inherent in the UFO phenomenon, honest people are >often going to see things from differing perspectives. Jerry Thanks for being the voice of reason here. One of the main reasons why 'ufology' is so unattractive to mainstream scientists is precisely this descent into ad hominems that you so rightly abhor. As an amateur astronomer (with a degree in astronomy), I am no stranger to controversy. However, it is rare, almost unknown, for theoretical disagreements between astronomers to degenerate into personal attacks in public forums. So why does it happen in ufology? Probably the main reason is the lack of concrete data--most of the time we're dealing with probabilities supported by highly ambiguous, non-repeatable observations (most photographic evidence also falls into this category). Without a comprehensive, agreed- upon theoretical underpinning, ufologists are reduced to attacking each other's credentials and antecedents in order to 'prove' a particular perspective by sheer brute force. Science it ain't. People like yourself, Jerry, have known this for years. The result is that there are a few dedicated individuals like yourself trying to professionalize this field. I think it's working (I have great hope for the ufo research list, where the quality of debate is very high). Whether ufology will ever develop the kind of theoretical paradigm that will make it a true science is uncertain. What _is_ certain, however, is that we won't get there by vicious personal attacks on the folks who are trying to make it happen. Just my .02, Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:39:09 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:34:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:00:57 EDT >Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >To: updates@globalserve.net <snip> >I've asked this question in a number of venues, without >explanation. Thank you. In fact, I remember that the evening was >cool, that there was nothing around me except my dad's 1953 >Plymouth Cranbrook. >Hanging on the rear fender (there were real fenders in those >days, chrome plated, no less) was a twelve foot, center loaded >whip antenna tuned to the 80 meter (3.5MHz) band and worked on >160 Meters as well. Also attached to that poor fender was a six >meter "Halo" antenna, attached to a 1/2 inch aluminum pipe, >drilled full of holes to make it lighter as well as sing in the >wind. >Attached to the antenna was ham gear operating on the 160 meter >band. Which for you novices out there, is (or used to be) VLF. >Every time I hear a meteor, and I still do, there are lots of >skyhooks in the vicinity. Of course, not for a moment did I >think I was crazy. But it's nice to have that verified. >Jim Mortellaro Hi Jim. Next time you drive out to your favourite dark spot to observe for meteors and it happens that you are clouded out (a common occurrence in Canada), you can listen to them instead on your FM radio. You must be tuned to a very distant radio station which you normally cannot hear, not a strong local one. When a meteor streaks across the sky you will briefly hear this distant radio station (since the ionized trail produced by the meteor will reflect radio waves from the distant FM station back to Earth). For hints on where to aim your car mounted antenna to get the best results for a particular meteor shower and to learn of other technical tricks to use, check out the following websites below. http://www.durhamradio.com/odxa/meteor.html http://www.imo.net/calendar/cal99.html If UFOs streaking across the skies also produce such ionized trails, then it wouldn't be difficult to build a UFO detector that will make their presence known, even when the sky is totally overcast. Nick Balaskas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:31:47 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:40:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:58:27 -0400 >From: Jacqueline Cosford <millpond@home.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? <snip> >I've been following the responses re: meteor sounds and it looks >as if your question as to whether or not this is possible has >been answered. It seems that the buzzing noise is quite common, >but I wonder if anyone has ever heard "whistling"? >I live in a suburb of Toronto and quite a few years back was >outside star gazing when I heard a whistling noise, and as I >looked up I saw a meteor pass over my head. This meteor was very >low and travelled in a horizontal path for what seemed a long >time, then gently arched towards the horizon and burned up near >to where the David Dunlop Observatory is located. <snip> Hi Jacqueline. There is also another 1998 local account of a meteor which was heard during its flight through the air but I do not know if it made a whistling sound or not. This meteorite which fell at a golf course in Kitchener (a city about an hour's drive west of Toronto) was obtained and studied by Dr. John Rucklidge, Professor Emeritus of the University of Toronto's Geology Department. The story we have is that a golfer was walking along to the 6th tee when he heard a noise of something that whizzed by his head. He looked down and found this meteorite. >Now, speaking of meteors. Did anyone living near Toronto see a >green fireball on Saturday night at approximately 11:30 p.m.? <snip> Although there no longer is a Canadian Government group that collects and studies meteor (and UFO) reports, there does exist the Meteorite and Impacts Advisory Committee (MIAC) which consists of a volunteer group of scientists that report to the Canadian Space Agency. If you fill in and submit the fireball report form which you will find at their MIAC website below, they will be able to tell you if they received other reports of the same fireball you saw. With enough data from witnesses, they can even determine what its orbit was before its encounter with the Earth and rule out other explanations for this fireball such as space junk re-entering the atmosphere or a UFO. http://dsaing.uqac.uquebec.ca/~mhiggins/MIAC/fireball.htm Nick Balaskas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Processed MGS Data - Maybe The 'Face' _Is_ From: Steven J. Dunn <SDunn@logicon.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:33:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:51:26 -0400 Subject: Processed MGS Data - Maybe The 'Face' _Is_ In April 1998, NASA released imaged of the Cydonia region and the "face on Mars" that looked to most, including this humble correspondent, to be a very natural formation. The "face" was dead. However, a search of the NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS) Astronomy Abstract Service has found an article/presentation, dated December 1998, that is in variance with the above conclusion. "The 'Face on Mars' at Cydonia: Natural or Artificial" by T. Van Flandern of Meta Research, given in American Astronomical Society, DPS meeting #30, #55.P31. One will note that the AAS is definitely not an organization with UFO or "new age" affiliations. The abstract says, in part: "New, high-resolution images taken by the Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) spacecraft have now been processed. Using height information from Viking imagery, MGS photos can be ortho-rectified to show the view as it would have appeared from overhead - quite different from the view actually seen by the spacecraft as it passed far to the west, especially in raw, unprocessed imagery. "In the properly processed, reconstructed view, we can again locate the features that appeared to portray eyes, nose, mouth, and enclosure in the Viking imagery. Remarkably, secondary facial characteristics not previously seen (eyebrow, pupil, nostrils, lips) now also appear, each with correct relative size, shape, location, and orientation. "Moreover, no background of similar features exists that would allow us to choose just those that fit the impression of a face." Now, your reporter has been accused of going through life half-asleep, but I do not recall this information being given the kind of play in the media that the April release did. However, not being a devotee of Mr. Bell (some of us do need to sleep-day jobs, you know), and since Hoagland, et al., seemed to be proven wrong, I have not been paying much attention to this (I found this article while searching for something else), so if this is old news to any readers, I apologize in advance. Nevertheless, MSG data seems to vindicate Hoagland, rather than the reverse. Steven Dunn
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:04:16 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:08:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Mon, 27 Sep 99 12:44:33 PDT >>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:02:57 -0500 >>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>>Date: Sat, 25 Sep 99 10:57:43 PDT >>>>Her name is Kimberly Blair. The articles are in the Pennsacola >>>>Independent Weekly. July 8, 1999. Vol.1, No.2. Its quite a >>>>lengthy article. 6 pages. >>>>Is this enough for you? >>>Patient and gentle listfolk: >>>I rest my case. This doesn't even rise to the level of >>>"anecdotal evidence" -- and remember, our correspondent was >>>trashing somebody the other day for taking that sort of thing >>>seriously. Here, lacking even anecdotal evidence (i.e., >>>specific reports by individuals who seem credible and whose >>>claims are investigatable), the reporter is reduced to passing >>>on vague rumors and complains that Cook and Walters don't behave >>>as she would under the circumstance. I am not impressed; nor >>>should any onlooker who knows anything at all about what >>>constitutes evidence. >>Being told to write up an obvious observation of planets as a >>UFO report is not vague. Nor is her observation of Walters' >>apparent nonchalance. The physical threats to her friend. >As I said, this doesn't even rise to the level of "anecdotal >evidence." It's just unverified claims and rumors, of which all >sorts swirled around Gulf Breeze in those heady days -- many of >them, of course, alleging the truthfulness of Walters's >sightings and photos. The latter, of course, you would reject >(and I think rightly) as worthless. The former, since they >serve your purpose, are heralded as deeply meaningful truth. >Let me repeat: I'm not impressed. >Jerry Clark Dear Jerome... (Personally, I prefer Jerry. But then I am rather informal in these matters and very PI - politically Incorrect!) With the gracious permission of his royal nibshipness, the honorable Docca Errol Bruce Kanappy, this Gringo Tourista would like to throw in his two cents. I read Walters' book, I saw the photos, I've listened to and read all the good, the bad and the ugly over the Gulf Breeze sightings. But it was only after completing the book, that I came to a conclusion. The once reached? There may have been sightings in Gulf Breeze. Ed Walters' may have seen and/or photographed true anomalous objects (UFO's) but to my weak and Gripple-addled brain, most of the information therein presented is, uh, embellished. This is not just a gut feeling I have but an opinion. And it is based on my own (perceived) experiences and those of the literally hundreds of others I've heard first hand during the past three years. It is all too easy to write a book based on _genuine_ experiences, or at least those perceived to be so, and to embellish and fictionalize the crap out of those experiences in an effort to please the publishers and those reading it. This may or may not have been the case with this work and those sightings and photos, but surely is a possibility. Which of those photographs and eye witness accounts may have been genuine are dcondemned to a level of others too numerous to mention, because of one (or more) embroidered floridities the likes of which would cause any sci-fi writer worth his or her salt to toss his or her lunch in disgust. This is a big part of the reason the UFO conundrum has become the joke which it has become to so many. It could have been very different. And that is the shame of those who would profit by their experiences, by money or fame ... either way it's a crime perpetrated on those who are righteous. And frankly, it sucks. Gringo Tourista with the runs ... Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Cigarette Ad Sparks UFO Controversy From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:11:43 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:51:10 -0400 Subject: Cigarette Ad Sparks UFO Controversy Source: space.com http://www.space.com:80/area51/caus_vs_tobacco_990928.html Stig *** Cigarette Ad Sparks UFO Controversy Sep 28 1999 10:54:11 ET ** A recent national advertising campaign from cigarette giant R.J. Reynolds dealing with UFOs has left a bad taste in some researchers' mouths. Peter Gersten, the so-called "UFO lawyer" of Phoenix, told the members of Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS) Monday that he found it likely that Reynolds' two-page newspaper advertisement is not only "defamatory, but also actionable." The ad for the Winston cigarette brand displays a classic flying saucer and the caption, "If aliens are smart enough to travel through space, why do they keep abducting the dumbest people on Earth?" Gersten, the director of CAUS, said he is drafting a letter of protest to Reynolds, and urged others to defend those claiming to have been abducted by aliens from the perceived attack. "In light of the recent lawsuit filed by CAUS, which is based on the reported experiences and eyewitness statements of abductees � the advertisement and its implications require a swift and serious response," he said. CAUS recently sued the state of Arizona and the federal government for failing to protect uphold their Constitutional duty to protect citizens from foreign attack -- even when those attacks originate in the place UFOs come from. He said he will demand that Reynolds withdraw the ads and apologize, adding that he views the ad not as a setback to the UFO cause but as "an opportunity for all abductees to come out of the cosmic closet and share their experiences while proving, once and for all, that they are intelligent, articulate, credible people." Meanwhile, several prominent guests of the 36th National UFO Conference in San Antonio, TX, were more ready to find humor in the ad. The newspaper pages in question were displayed prominently near the registration conference throughout the two-day conference, in full view of host Dennis Stacy, MUFON International Director Walt Andrus and other UFO dignitaries. ** Copyright �1999 space.com, inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. You can read our *terms of service
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:21:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:26:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:46:43 +0200 >From: Bruno Mancusi <Bruno.Mancusi@com.mcnet.ch> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees >>Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:06:55 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >>Subject: Winston Cigarette Ad Ridicules Abductees >I have seen another ad on abductees, for Ericsson. It was on 18 >September in a theater here, in Switzerland, before Polanski's >movie 'The Ninth Gate'. A man is abducted and the aliens find on >him an Ericsson cellular phone. An alien says something like: >"How can so stupid a being have a so advanced technology?". >Bruno Lets add another one to the list. I can't remember what phone company this was, but it's the one that uses Al Bundy. I believe it's 1-800-Call ATT, or one of those other ones. Although this doesn't concern abductees, it shows an almond eyed alien trying to phone home from a payphone booth. Al Bundy then comes to the rescue and helps him save money by using the advertised long distance company! It seems our society makes jest of, and is cashing in on, what we consider a serious issue. Doesn't surprise me though. T. Lemire -- "Know that there is a Creator-Sustainer, who has made Himself knowable to Creation in direct proportion to the creatures ability to comprehend and respond." - Taken from the Andreasson Legacy by Raymond E. Fowler
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 If Aliens Are Calling Collect, SETI Ready To Answer From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:40:02 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:21:04 -0400 Subject: If Aliens Are Calling Collect, SETI Ready To Answer Source: PioneerPlanet / St. Paul (Minnesota) Pioneer Press, http://www.pioneerplanet.com:80/seven-days/2/business/docs/000484.htm Stig *** Published: Monday, September 27, 1999 Is Anyone Out There? If they are calling collect, SETI ready to answer. RICK SHEFCHIK STAFF WRITER When Dave Runkle's 27 personal computers aren't performing their usual tasks, they're searching outer space for calls from E.T. In the central computer room of his second-floor office in Brooklyn Park, a stack of 10 separate computers analyze radio wave data, hunting for extraterrestrial signals. Others grind away in his outer office. At the University of Minnesota-Mankato, 19-year-old sophomore Michael Fralish uses his only personal computer for the same purpose. Pink, red and blue wafers, interspersed with an occasional taller gray wafer, appear on his computer screen. These represent the spikes, or increased level of noise, in the radio wave spectrum. The spikes are almost certainly manmade noises -- but there's always that infinitesimal chance they were made by something else. Runkle and Fralish just two of 1.2 million worldwide volunteers in SETI@home, a two-year Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) project that has become the world's most extensive exercise in distributive computing. There have been SETI projects based at the University of California at Berkely for many years, the purpose of which have been to do scientific research in the general field of Life in the Universe. The SETI@home search has captured the most attention, but it's not exactly feverish. "It really just runs in the background," says Fralish, who joined Mankato's SETI team in May, when the project officially began. "Every day before I start my work, I still take a look to see what's happening. But you can watch it or let it keep on going. I don't think I've seen anything. Then again, you never know when it's going to be your day. That's the fun of it." Runkle is too busy at his day job as a computer network administrator at Carl Zeiss IMT to watch his screens for alien sightings. He has programmed his computer to send him an e-mail if something significant is found -- something that just could be mankind's most startling discovery. So far? "No E.T.s have phoned home," Runkle admits. "They have had some promising ones, but they haven't found anything that hasn't been traceable to a manmade source." No results yet Five months of no results has not dampened enthusiasm for the search, according to SETI@home officials. "We have 8,000 people signing up every day," said Dan Wirthimer, chief scientist of the SETI@home team. "We're elated that so many people are enthusiastic, including school children. Some teachers are making it part of their science curriculum." Runkle might be a typical volunteer. A avid amateur astronomer, he has set up all the computers at his disposal -- both at work and at home -- to download and analyze packets or "work units" of raw data from the SETI Web site (setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu) when they are otherwise idle. This raw data, recorded off the world's largest radio telescope dish at Arecibo, Puerto Rico, is taken from a band of the microwave radio spectrum that scientist believe would be a likely location for extraterrestrial communication -- if such communication actually exists. An estimated 95 percent of SETI@home participants believe it does. That's why so many volunteers responded to the invitation to partake in the world's largest-ever "distributive computing" project. Analyzing all the data accumulated from the radio telescope takes enormous computing resources, so farming out bits of data to millions of personal computers was a way to speed up the search. "The more power you have, the more you can do," said Wirthimer, who has engaged in various searches for extraterrestrial life for two decades. "The power of our computers has grown by a factor of a million in just 20 years." The SETI directors expected perhaps 100,000 volunteers. Initially, however, the rush to sign up was so frenzied that they had more analyzers than they have fresh data for them to analyze, and duplicate data units were sent out. Now, Wirthimer says, there's a backlog of data. So far, Wirthimer says, there's been nothing to get excited about. "We're always pulling fun stuff, but it always turns out to be non-extraterrestrial -- plane or satellite noise," he said. "We've never found anything where our heart skipped a beat and we called the director and said, 'We've got to have a new telescope right away.' " Yet Wirthimer is convinced that SETI@home is advancing Earth's search capabilities so significantly that it's just a matter of time -- perhaps in our lifetime. "I'm optimistic about extraterrestrial life," Wirthimer says. "It would be bizarre if we were the only ones. It's hard to imagine a universe in which we are the one planet out of trillions that has life." A bit boring As thrilling as the prospect of contact may be, the process is fairly mundane. The downloaded SETI software installs itself as your default screensaver and -- when your computer is otherwise idle -- it begins examining a unit of data for spikes in the atmosphere's background hiss to determine if they are significant. When one unit is examined -- a process that can take from 20 to 100 hours, depending on the speed of your computer and the amount of time it is running -- the software automatically returns the data to SETI@home and downloads a new packet. Volunteers like Dave Runkle know the odds are slim that anything will turn up -- or that their computer will be the one to make the discovery -- but, like Wirthimer, they believe the universe is simply too vast for there NOT to be other life forms up there somewhere. "What I'm trying to achieve is the Holy Grail," Runkle says. "Whether I find it or somebody else does, that's not important. Just so somebody finds it." So Runkle and the others press on, downloading, analyzing and sending back packets of information at truly amazing rates. As of last week, SETI volunteers had examined more than 26 million units of data, which has consumed 78,620.26 years of computer processing time. In fact, the project has spurred a different kind of space race -- one in which groups of volunteers compete to out-compute rival teams. Runkle is part of a 14-member SETI team formed by members of the Minnesota Astronomical Society. They keep track of how much information they've analyzed compared to other SETI club teams. There are also categories for schools, businesses and government agencies. Other teams from Minnesota include ones from Macalester College, the University of Minnesota, St. Paul Academy and Minnesota State-Mankato. Each group has their totals posted and updated daily on the SETI Web site. "It's a little arms race of the technical people, to see who can push more packets out quicker in a day," says Runkle. As a point of comparison, Runkle's Team MAS has analyzed 2,762 units of data, which represents a combined 8.78 years of computer processing time. But the leader among all SETI clubs is Team Art Bell, whose 9,798 members have completed 162,473 packets, good for 621.53 years of processing time. Within the MAS team, Runkle is engaged in a personal competition with his friend Bob Brose, a network administrator at J. River, a Twin Cities software publishing company. Brose formed the MAS group and runs the SETI software on about 20 computers at both his home and his office. Both Runkle and Brose have done over 1,000 units. "He (Runkle) has mostly Windows machines, which are so much slower [than Macintosh or Linux], but he's got more power so he's catching up pretty quick," Brose said. "We keep teasing each other about buying new machines to extend our lead or keep each other from catching up." Brose first heard about SETI@home through a friend at work, and immediately became intrigued that his interest in astronomy could be combined with his interest in the potential of distributive computing. "This isn't a brand new idea, but it's new in terms of the amount of participation," Brose said. "Other projects tended to be more esoteric -- the breaking of cryptographic things. They'd put out these algorithms and challenge people to break their codes. They would have teams of people on various operating systems battle each other to see who could break it first, usually for a minor reward. "In this case, the notoriety is the reward." Like Runkle, Brose doesn't expect a discovery today or tomorrow, but he doesn't discount the possibility, either. "Just given how many planets there are likely to be, if you extend that out, the odds that there isn't [intelligent life] is miniscule," Brose said. "There has to be [life] out there. I don't believe they've been here, however. I don't believe they've visited earth. We're looking at possibilities of other forms of life in the solar system. "I think the odds of SETI finding something are fairly low. You're looking in a certain area in the sky, and to hit that dish in Puerto Rico from somewhere a long ways away, you'd have to have in incredibly strong signal. The chances of picking something up here are not great. But if we pull it off, it's the story of the century." That's a big part of what drives the searchers onward -- the slim chance that their interstellar hit could change the world. Runkle runs most of his packets in text-only mode, which gives him numerical, rather than graphic, information about what's happening with the current data. That enables him to run through the data much more quickly. He has created a program to notify him when one of his SETI-running machines finds a big spike. "If it finds something, it e-mails me that there's something impressive," Runkle says. "Every time I do a packet, I get one or two. But in my opinion, this --" he says, gesturing to the brightly colored monitor screen -- "is just a show for the masses." If the spike is high enough, the software will automatically flag it and have it re-analyzed in the Berkeley lab when the packet is returned. Even if you did see an actual contact from outer space show up on your screen, you might not know it for months. You'd have to wait until the SETI@home lab analyzed it several more times, verified its importance and then notified you. At which point, of course, you could plan on posing for the cover of Time magazine. It may be the longest of long shots, but over a million amateur astronomers are playing the game anyway. "Why do people play the lottery?" Runkle muses. "It's the same level of intelligence. Actually, I don't play the lottery -- my wife does -- but you'd have better odds." The odds don't really matter to those involved in the SETI@home search. It's an expression of what they believe put into action. "I admit it is a long shot that we might find anything, but if you're not looking you're certainly not going to find anything," Fralish says. "I personally believe there's extraterrestrial intelligence. And if SETI doesn't find it, it wouldn't convince me that it's not there. "It's just being in the right place at the right time. You may be the one who discovers the first intelligent signal." ** Rick Shefchik can be reached at rshefchik@pioneerpress.com or (651) 228-5577. � 1999 PioneerPlanet / St. Paul (Minnesota) Pioneer Press - All Rights Reserved *copyright information
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:05:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:24:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And German DiscTechnology >Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:45:54 +0100 >>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:23:45 -0400 >>From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And German Disc Technology >>Source: SIGHTINGS >>http://www.sightings.com/ufo4/canadadisc_u.htm >>Canada's 'Avro' Flying >>Saucer - And German >>Disc Technology >>By Julian Borger >>The Guardian >>9-25-99 >>It Came From Outer Toronto... >>Avro Canada is best remembered for the ill-fated Arrow, the >>supersonic jet fighter shelved by Ottawa in 1959. Now, >>newly-released CIA documents shed new light on another of the >>company's dreams - a flying saucer. >If anyone has read my book - UFO Revelation - theyll notice >remarkably similar material. >Borger's second-hand report only barely scratches the surface if >the Man-Made UFO cover-up. >In issue#3 of 'BEYOND' I'll be presenting a new and remarkable >exclusive on my latest research into this (deliberately avoided) >subject. >If anyone wants to get some decent information on secret disc >technologies then I suggest they contact me. There is nothing >new in Borgers' report to the extent that he even emailed me >looking for more material! >Quite remarkable! >Tim Matthews. Greetings Mr. Matthews, Mr. Matthews, are you aware of Palmiro Campagna? And his book titled "The UFO Files"? When you speak of "second hand" reports, whose is the first hand you speak of? Could yours perhaps be second hand info also? How remarkable are your "proprietary" findings? Sincerely, T. Lemire -- "Know that there is a Creator-Sustainer, who has made Himself knowable to Creation in direct proportion to the creatures ability to comprehend and respond." - Taken from the Andreasson Legacy by Raymond E. Fowler
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Another Crop Formation Near Midale, Saskatchewan From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:09:55 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:29:22 -0400 Subject: Another Crop Formation Near Midale, Saskatchewan CPR-Canada News News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Another Crop Formation Near Midale, Saskatchewan September 28, 1999 _____________________________ Editor: Paul Anderson _____________________________ Preliminary Report - September 28 By Paul Anderson Yet another crop circle formation was reported this evening, in the Midale area of Saskatchewan, the fifth now in that region, as well as the nearby one at Weyburn. Reported by pilot John Erickson and Nancy Talbott of BLT. Found on September 26 by farmer Randy Johner while combining, the formation is about four miles east and one mile north of Midale. Formation is in wheat, and consists of a large 50 - 60 foot circle, with a circle of standing wheat inside it about 3 feet across. The small standing circle is off centre, near the edge of the large flattened circle in the south-west position. Further details, field report, images when available. Preliminary diagram attached, � Paul Anderson. This is now the seventeenth formation reported for this year in Canada. I will also be doing a radio interview tomorrow for Newstalk Radio in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan at about 6:45 pm local time, 4:45 pm PT. We are also in need of additional people to assist in the sampling of formations for the BLT Research Team, particularly the Midale area. If you are interested, contact myself at the e-mail / numbers below or Nancy Talbott of BLT directly at 617.492.0415 (tel) or 617.492.0414 (fax). Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada _____________________________ Circle Phenomena in Canada Report Archive 1999: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html A reminder for all Canadian subscribers / readers - your assistance is welcome and needed - ANY reports of other possible circles this year, please do let us know as soon as possible! See Reporting and Field Research Guidelines on the web site for more information: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reporting.html REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522 _____________________________ CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International), and is published periodically or as breaking news develops, with the latest news and information and is available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or "unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.ca CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions. Forward all correspondence to: CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Office Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 � Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 1999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Research Update - ATIC History From: Wendy Connors <ProjectSign@email.msn.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:53:50 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:30:43 -0400 Subject: Research Update - ATIC History Greetings: Wendy Connors and Michael David Hall have recently obtained a copy of the official Air Technical Intelligence history for 1 June 1951 to 31 December 1951 inclusive. This history adds much new data to how ATIC operated during the early years of the flying disc investigations. The ATIC history was classified SECRET and included the following content headings: Foreword, Organization and Function, Accomplishments and Appendix. The history gives a complete synopsis of of each sections responsibilities, chain of command, etc. Each section describes in general the accomplishments of the previous six months. Project Blue Book is not mentioned. Rather, the Technical Analysis Division gives a summary "Evaluation of Reports on Unidentified Aerial Objects." This is important for several reasons. First, the term unidentified "Aerial" objects is still being used prior to 1952. This add's some credence to the possibility that Captain Edward J. Ruppelt coined the usage of "Unidentified Flying Objects" soon after his taking over the flying saucer investigations under the old Project Grudge and coining the project "Blue Book," which was not an officially assigned designation for the UFO project. Secondly, a section of the evaluation states, "This project involves the collection of reports of unidentified aerial objects; the evaluation, as to source and content, of reports of visual or electronic sightings of unidentified aerial objects submitted by military or civilian sources; the investigation of reports of such sightings through field work when deemed necessary; and the preparation of periodic status reports for the information of the D/I, Hq. USAF." This confirms that Project's SIGN, Grudge and the unofficial project name, "Blue Book," relied heavily on radar (electronic) sources for the investigation of UFOs and that these project's did, indeed, report directly to the Directorate of Intelligence at the Pentagon. Thus, ATIC's chain of command was not through AMC per se, but through the auspices of Air Force Intelligence in the Pentagon. Further, confirmation is contained within the history that a program designed to index and cross index all sightings of UFOs was underway in order to provide statistical data about the phenomenon prior to 1951. Also, the following passage illustrates that concentration would be on, "...those incidents that appear to have originated from high grade sources, such as pilots, technically trained people, etc. The exception to this was where a number of sightings occur in a certain area at about the same time." Although reports were taken from the public, ATIC only did a cursatory look at those reports, relying instead on many in house (military) reports for detailed analysis. Acquisition of this formal history, combined with the recent acquisition of the AMC Paperclip histories and the T-2 formal histories by Hall and Connors, begin to offer researchers a better look inside the operation and organizational structure of Air Technical Intelligence at Wright-Patterson AFB. This information gives an historical perspective for researchers, which in the past have been rather sketchy, to the elimination of previous best-guess scenarios as to just how the Air Force handled and perceived the investigations of UFOs. It should be noted that there are some surprises within the ATIC history. A more formal and indepth analysis of this information will be shared by Hall and Connors in future updates. As with any new acquisition, new paths are discovered which necessitates more work in obtaining information about these new areas. Thank you, Wendy Connors and Mike Hall
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Strieber Rallies UFO Faithful, Rails Against From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:35:01 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:14:00 -0400 Subject: Strieber Rallies UFO Faithful, Rails Against Source: 'space.com', http://www.space.com:80/area51/strieber_990928.html Stig *** Whitley Strieber Rallies UFO Faithful, Rails Against 'Denial' By Robert Scott Martin Staff Writer Sep 28 1999 16:23:23 ET ** After being honored as "UFOlogist of the Year" at this year's National UFO Conference, horror novelist turned contactee Whitley Strieber took advantage of the spotlight to berate unbelievers and captivate an audience of UFO faithful. Strieber, who rarely makes public appearances, accepted the commemorative plaque from conference chairman Jim Moseley on Saturday night. In particular, Moseley -- a veteran of a half-century in the UFO field -- praised Strieber's role in bringing UFO phenomena to a new generation of readers. Strieber had earned the honor -- the highest and only award given out by the National UFO Conference, or NUFOC -- "for bringing the UFO enigma to the public awareness and expanding public understanding of the Gray aliens -- such as it is -- in a tremendously enhanced way," Moseley said. Previous winners of the award, which is bestowed annually at the national conference, include such luminaries as J. Allan Hynek, Karl Pflock, John Keel and Jenny Randles. Strieber received the praise with a mixture of gratitude toward the UFO community and rancor toward cultural forces that have abandoned the phenomena of flying saucers and alien abduction stories to the scientific ghetto. He noted that the last such honor he had received was a Caldecott award in 1985, and that his career had swerved quite far from the "awards track" soon thereafter as he suffered the experiences that would later become the book Communion. Describing the UFOlogical field as "rejected knowledge," he lulled a crowd of more than 200 people -- many of whom had come to the conference solely to see him, and had ignored other speakers -- with the nuanced vowels and punched delivery of his recent radio training with UFO-radio kingpin Art Bell, on whose syndicated "Dreamland" program he now serves as permanent guest host. Rejected knowledge "I am a missionary for rejected knowledge," he said. "Our interest marks us as a little less well-educated � a little more primitive." "I've gone beyond the edge. I've received 300,000 letters from people with similar experiences" of being contacted, abducted and manipulated by alien "visitors," he said. "Somebody's having a close encounter right now. Somebody's seeing a UFO right now, in this very area. Somebody's getting abducted." Strieber likened the fact that these encounters rarely reach the media mainstream except as objects of derision to a society-wide act of "denial." "We are a culture in denial," he told the spellbound housewives, retirees and teenagers who thronged the crowd. "There is no place to fit this in the socio-emotional construct (but) the silence is becoming a desperate one. Something's going on here." The seminal abduction case More than any UFO encounter in the last four decades, Strieber's experience with the uncanny visitors that lurk behind the impassive masks of the now-ubiquitous "Gray aliens" has transformed the way we think about aliens and flying saucers, what they are and what they want from us. With his 1985 work Communion, Strieber began an increasingly hermetic literary journey into mythic autobiography, relating his UFO experiences -- often harrowing, grotesque or just plain inexplicable -- to an audience that multiplied with each best-selling volume. Taken together, the books blend existing alien lore with new wrinkles of degradation and longing for the security of metaphysical truth to paint an epic canvas of the alien as capricious, dimension-traveling scientist-trickster, slipping into windows late at night to play with the monstrous toys of human lives. The image of the alien abductor became one of the enduring myths of the already apocalyptic 1990s, and Strieber insists that it's all true. "The French have what they consider incontrovertible evidence of something unknown in the atmosphere flying around," he told his San Antonio audience. "There's no question the United States keeps something secret about this. I think it's the biggest secret they're keeping, and it's something wrong." Once again, he narrated the 1985 encounter with the alien that had at first caused him to doubt his sanity, then launched into a videotape presentation of evidence accumulated since then. "Why Do We Deny It?" The presentation, titled "Why Do We Deny It?", began with footage that may have looked almost commonplace to an audience hungry for the spectacle and bloodletting of one more alien autopsy, one more story of sexual experimentation from beyond. A glowing sphere lopes across the night sky over Camarillo, CA, on Thanksgiving, 1998. With a long rigid projection fixed at a skewed angle and tipped with a smaller spherical projection, it is unlikely to be a weather balloon. It teases the camera, then explodes in a blast of flaming debris�. Space shuttle video taken aboard STS-80 in 1986 reveals a bright, comet-like flash leaping from the ground near Sao Paulo into space. Later, lights and flares dance in the sky over the Amazon during a thunderstorm. None of these phenomena, Strieber said, have been identified�.. A will-o-the-wisp wanders through the streets of a Latin American city in a rooftop video allegedly taken by a 9-year-old boy. "Is this a flock of geese?" Strieber asked the crowd. "I always liked that explanation." A glowing shape in the dark that Strieber said was an alien captured on film in someone's backyard turns, then hunches away from the camera�.. In an urban medical facility, a doctor digs into an ear that Strieber identified as his own in search of an implant left there by persons unknown. The object retreats from the doctor's tools, forcing the attempt to remove it to end in failure and disbelief�. After this, there was nothing left but for the screen to go black. Whether we buy into Strieber's rather sketchily introduced "evidence" or not, it certainly made for good theater -- the audience clearly bought into the rhythm, flash and mystery of the presentation. The question of whether they were watching a tent-revival miracle or a reel of saucer porn seemed somehow beside the point. Where It Ends Up At the end, right before the fans rose up to share a few words with the primal abductee and perhaps get an autograph or see the implant scar, Strieber explained the structure of the film. "It starts at a distance," he said, with the lights in the sky that simply float without connection to human beings or anything else -- this is their power and their chief allure. Then, the camera pulls in closer and closer, into the streets and backyards and doctors' offices we know. "Closer to you, because that's where this ends up," Strieber said, adding that it should come as no surprise that the aliens now seem fascinated with the inner workings of human bodies. "If we went to another planet and found another intelligent species," he said, "what would be our highest level of interest? Us, unless there's a higher intelligence on this planet." Hall of mirrors That said, it's interesting that Strieber's tour from the cosmic to the personal -- perhaps unconsciously, perhaps deliberately -- mirrored the history of UFO contact in this century. Like Strieber's aliens, the UFO story began with sightings from afar, fleeting glimpses of distant ships and glowing objects in the sky. In the 1940s and early 1950s, researchers paid little heed to stories of landings, and not even the Air Force would consider reports of abductions as valid cases. Then, as the years wore on and the body of UFO literature grew, the saucers themselves receded to the background of the stories, to be replaced first by landings, then by sightings of the actual aliens themselves -- the proximity of our encounters narrowed as we became accustomed to the aliens (or they became bored with us). In time, witnesses became bold enough to engage the aliens -- which we had previously only watched from behind trees and rocks -- in increasingly extensive conversation. And then the reports of humans being brought aboard UFOs for experimentation or picked out for long-term manipulation began to gather momentum. Simultaneously, the "alien autopsy" ascended to glory as the most visceral evidence that we are not alone in the universe. To sum up his opinion on the aliens' motivations for toying with humans in increasingly intimate ways, Strieber said the UFO entities were most likely trying to preserve the novelty of an encounter with another intelligent race -- humanity -- as long as possible. "If aliens were to come to this planet, they would be extremely secretive," he said. "Any race with the power to travel on such a scale would of necessity be completely knowledgeable. They would be searching the cosmos for the new, and the newest experience imaginable would be that provided by other intelligence." No matter what the aliens are -- social constructs of millennial angst, uncanny visitors from elsewhere, extraterrestrials -- our relationship works both ways. Who is experimenting on whom? Who is growing bored with whom? ** Copyright �1999 space.com, inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. You can read our *terms of service
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 WB's 'Roswell' Mixes Aliens, Teen Angst From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:57:37 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:14:00 -0400 Subject: WB's 'Roswell' Mixes Aliens, Teen Angst Source: AP via the Arizona Daily Star, http://www.azstarnet.com/public/dnews/LB0357.html Stig *** Wednesday, 29 September 1999 WB's 'Roswell' mixes aliens, teen angst By Chris Roberts The Associated Press ALBUQUERQUE - Imagine you're a teen-ager and you don't know who your parents are or where you came from. That's a ton of teen angst. It wasn't enough for the creators of "Roswell," who have upped the ante. So imagine all the above plus one more thing - you're an alien. But, rather than relying on the "Star Wars" approach of fantastic creatures and cutting-edge special effects, "Roswell" (premiering at 8 p.m. Oct. 6 on KWBA, Channel 58) is a star-crossed teen-age love story with an otherworldly twist. The show is scheduled in the slot that follows the popular "Dawson's Creek" and matches the teen appeal of WB shows like "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." "It is a wonderful metaphor for teen-age alienation," said executive producer and script writer Jason Katims ("My So-Called Life"). "As teen-agers, we all feel like aliens and some of us as adults (feel that way) too." While the show may be saving money on special effects, it is spending some on the music. Tunes from such alternative bands as Eagle Eye Cherry, Dave Matthews, Garbage and Sarah McLachlan are strategically placed in the pilot to accent the emotion of the moment. Set in Roswell, N.M., but filmed near Los Angeles with Roswell Daily Record newspapers in the racks, "Roswell" borrows heavily from the fabled high-desert crash of a UFO. It is sure to attract, at least for a while, the hard-core believers who think the U.S. government is still covering up the details of that crash. Three alien teens - who look human, but later reveal they can "change molecular structures" - came from an incubator onboard the spacecraft. Two of them, Max Evans (Jason Behr, who has appeared on "Dawson's Creek") and Isabel Evans (Katherine Heigl), were found walking naked along the road as small children and adopted by a loving family. The third, Michael Guerin (Brendan Fehr), was adopted by a man who "just keeps me around for the monthly check." The story begins with the apparent death of teen-ager Liz Parker (Shiri Appleby). Liz, a waitress at her father's diner, the Crashdown Cafe, is accidentally shot in the stomach when an argument between two patrons erupts into a struggle over a gun. Max risks revealing himself and his friends when he heals the gunshot wound with a touch that leaves a silver palm print. He breaks a bottle of ketchup, smears it on Parker and tells her not to tell anyone what happened. It's the beginning of an impossible relationship. As Max reveals more of himself to Liz, an act of trust the alien teens believe could have deadly consequences, he performs a mind meld that allows Liz to see the world through his eyes. She sees herself as well. "I could feel everything he felt, I could feel his loneliness," Liz says. "In his eyes I was beautiful." Some of the lines are cutely corny, and the incubator birth is never fully explained, but enjoying science fiction normally takes a suspension of disbelief. Tongue-in-cheek humor that includes a few low-key special effects is intended to keep sci-fi fans from slipping into love-story ennui. Michael and Isabel chastise Max for risking everything by saving Liz. "You use your powers all the time," Max says to Isabel. "Recreationally," Isabel responds as she melts the cheese on her taco. Appleby says the new episodes will focus more on the threat of capture. The alien teens establish in the first episode that they believe they are in a life-and-death situation, avoiding government agents who will spirit them to a lab and dissect them. The suspicious sheriff (William Sadler of "The Shawshank Redemption") has personal reasons for digging out the truth. His father was a law enforcement officer in 1959 when a body was found bearing a similar silver hand print. When he tries to report the incident at the cafe to a federal agent, he is met with skepticism and the warning, "Do you know what everyone at the agency called your father? Sgt. Martian." The earnestly delivered lines help give the wrong-side-of-the-Milky-Way love story and other plot twists a veneer of realism. "We don't want it to turn into 'My Favorite Martian,"' said executive producer Jonathan Frakes ("Star Trek: The Next Generation"), who makes a cameo appearance in the pilot. "We're taking it seriously." Visit *Warner Bros. Online for the official websites of your favorite WB TV shows. � Copyright
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Get Real From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:49:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:14:00 -0400 Subject: Get Real Last night while my kids were flipping through the channels searching for something to watch, they happened across "Close Encounters Of The Third Kind" so we watched the last hour of the show. Remember the part where a "mother ship" lands, or hovers, whatever, and a huge ramp lowers? After a suspenseful pause, these people who were abducted 50, 40, 30 years ago or just last week come walking down the ramp in a daze. Onlookers are shown smiling these great big smiles and one technician comments, "He hasn't aged a day. I guess Einstein was right." Now, what is wrong with this picture? Abductees, taken from their lives years ago, are finally returned by their abductors and everyone thinks this is just hunky-dorey. These abductees may not have aged a day since they were abducted but their lives have been totally disrupted. Most of their family and friends, if still alive, have continued to age in their absence. They have no jobs, their education would be out of date compared to today's standards and they will have to adjust to a very changed world. So why is everyone smiling? No one knows what was done to these abductees yet these UFOs and "aliens" are welcomed with open arms. It doesn't seem to matter that citizens of this planet were taken against their wills and returned years and years later. To hell with the abductees, we have made _contact_! Then to top it off (this one really got me), we give them _more_ humans to take with them....no questions asked!!! (ROFL...and crying) Amy Home Page: "http://members.tripod.com/TheVanguard"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: RPIT - A Reminder From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:14:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:14:00 -0400 Subject: Re: RPIT - A Reminder >>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> >>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 05:10:02 EDT >>Subject: Re: RPIT - A Reminder [was... Re: The Challenge] >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com> >>>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:21:19 EDT >>>Subject: Re: RPIT - A Reminder >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >Dear Gildas and All >Just a couple of points... ><snip> >>To Mr Bond Johnson, Kevin Randle, David Rudiak, and the List >>I wish to repeat, one last time, what I wrote in recent messages >>(September 1 and 7): >>General DuBose had revealed, in the course of a long interview >>with Jaime Shandera, published in the MUFON UFO Journal of >>January 1991, how the balloon and radar target debris had been >>brought to the office of General Ramey, on Tuesday July 8, 1947 >> - he brought them! >>He explained, clearly enough, how he had met a B-29 which >>brought to Fort Worth the balloon debris in a canvas pouch, on >>direct orders from the Pentagon: >>"I took the pouch in Ramey's office. In it was a bunch of trash. >>We unbuckled it and laid it out on the floor : it was cold >>potatoes as far as I was concerned". >>He confirmed later to Kevin Randle that he never saw the real >>debris, which explains why he said that the debris had not been >>switched! >>All this is pretty simple and clear, and I am at loss to >>understand all that fuss going on about the balloon photographs, >>which only feed further confusion on Roswell. > >There is something _very_ wrong with Dubose's story _if_ we are >to accept this is the Marcel debris transfer flight of the 8th. > Neil. To Neil Morris and List, Thank you for your long answer to my message of 26 september. Let's try to be very brief. As I already said, I am perfectly awere of - the Sunday 6 flight Affidavit of General DuBose, describing a sealed plastic pouch which he attached himself to the wrist of Colonel Clark, on his way to Washington ; - the Tuesday flight of a B-29 from Roswell, as described by Marcel and Porter, who were on board with carefully wrapped, very light parcels small like shoe boxes except for a triangle, all carried by five officers, etc. What I am talking about is another flight to Fort Worth on tuesday 8, as described by Du Bose in the controversial interview published in the Mufon Journal of January 1991. Have you read it? He took delivery himself of balloon and target debris in an unsealed canvas pouch, brought by a B-29. He had it displayed on the floor of Ramey's office. Again, I find sad that it was not confirmed by another, recorded interview at the time. To discard this part of his testimony, you hav two options, it seems: - DuBose was senile at that time. But his testimony makes a lot of sense to me. - Jaime Shandera invented that part. This supposition is about as crazy, because the DuBose testimony destroys the belief of Shandera and Moore that the real debris had been displayed. By publishing that he killed his own case ! Another point: DuBose did not describe the first Tuesday flight because he was not there: he repeated he never saw the real debris. Sorry, but I stick to my analysis. BTW, the second tuesday flight could come from any place where there was balloon debris available. Also, a good reason _not_ to bring it in the same plane as the real debris was to avoid giving ideas to some smart member of the crew. Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:51:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:14:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:01:05 -0500 >Jerry [Clark] >Thanks for being the voice of reason here. One of the main >reasons why 'ufology' is so unattractive to mainstream >scientists is precisely this descent into ad hominems that you >so rightly abhor. As an amateur astronomer (with a degree in >astronomy), I am no stranger to controversy. However, it is >rare, almost unknown, for theoretical disagreements between >astronomers to degenerate into personal attacks in public >forums. >So why does it happen in ufology? Mr. Brian Straight; Your contrasting theoretical disagreements between astronomers and dissent in ufology is highly inappropriate. Perhaps you have not set aside some time to apply thought to this issue. Is the field of astronomy brimming with crackpotism and nutcases? Does the field of astronomy involve claims in which private investigators, hypnosis and/or polygraph tests become a major part of investigations, and does astronomy deal with hoaxers and hucksters, and do the leaders in the astronomical field frequently and regrettably put profit ahead of truth? Yes, it is unfortunate that personal attacks go hand in hand with some of these ufological debates. But since you applauded Jerome Clark for �voice of reason� during argumentation, let�s take a fresh look at some of his previous comments from this discussion so that you and the friendly reader can decide whether or not Clark has demonstrated himself as the keen officer of courtesy and civility that you proclaim. On Monday, September 27, Jerome Clark stated to Terry Evans: �I have the right to challenge you when you fly off into malicious fantasy, a place for which you seem to have an appalling fascination.� During this same post, Clark freely states to his adversary: "What utter, utter rubbish. You just can't stop yourself, can you? The stuff you've written is simply your, or somebody's, invention." On September 24, 1999, Jerome Clark also wrote to UpDates: �Too bad, but I'm not surprised that you'd stand by baseless charges. If you weren't that sort of guy, you wouldn't have made them in the first place.� ��Yours is the cheapest sort of ad hominem strategy.� �Gentlemanliness is, I gather, no virtue to you.� �Though I have deep doubts about the GB photos, your contributions (if that's the word) to the discussion are singularly unproductive.� On September 22, Jerome Clark states: �What a load of malicious crap�� On September 7, in response to Jerry Black�s belief in polygraph tests for UFO claimants, Clark hotly replies: �My word, what a black-and- white world you live in, Mr. Black.� In that same message, in response to Black�s assertion that few leading UFOlogists even know how to conduct investigations of basic cases, Clark answers: �Yeah, I guess you'd know. As Orwell says, ignorance is strength.� In a July 30 message to Jerry Black, Clark begins his message with a disrespectful �Wrong, old boy�� and goes on to add: �Before you get any more carried away on a tidal wave of self-righteousness�� And on June 9, Clark stated: �Ufology has many problems. One of them is the sort of simplistic, chest-beating polemic with which Jerry Black has decided, yet again, to bless us.� That was a sampling of some ugly comments from a tough and sometimes ugly debate, but the point should be clear. Hot and angry words result, perhaps no side is innocent. No, Brian Straight, it seems that Jerome Clark�s past comments to his fellow disputants could hardly be seen as an outbreak of courtesy, nor do his comments reflect an outstanding departure from the mud-flinging and finger pointing involved with �ufological dissent� that you would have us believe. Perhaps your idea of enlightened theoretical dissent is constrained only to the side you choose to affiliate with. Thanks for your time, Kenny Young -- UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Berwyn Watch 1 From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:50:28 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:14:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:57:29 +0100 >>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:29:47 +0100 >>From: Dave Bowden <dave.bowden@cableinet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET> >>>Subject: Re: Berwyn Watch 1 >>>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:27:46 +0100 >>>Given the over one hundred years of family experience in RAF >>>matters, some at a very high level, how come none of them heard >>>about UFOs and cover-ups? >>Well that's interesting Tim, so your family have been involved >>in RAF matters since before the Wright brothers first >>successfully powered flight in 1903. >No need to make up cheap tacky comments. You and I both know >that I mean combined experience. Now now, theres nothing tacky or made up about facts, if you meant combined experience why didn't you just say so. >Now then Dave, get off your high horse and tell me about these >trained observers. What is it with you and this trained observer thing? Check the archives, when did I ever mention that?? Possibly we have a couple of crossed lines here, I said trained military personnel which was intended to mean something completely different. I was kind of hoping that someone like yourself would have understood what I meant, from your comments obviously not. But since you brought up the subject of trained observers I do actually agree with you. How can someone be trained to observe the unknown. And of course an un-identified flying object does not an alien spaceship make. I'm sure you are with me on that one at least. Dave.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:48:04 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:14:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights >From: UFO-Finland <ufofinland@saunalahti.fi> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights >Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:31:36 +0300 >Lhettj: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Vastaanottaja: <02 - UFO UpDates Subscribers :;> >Lhetetty: 26. syyskuuta 1999 1:41 >Aihe: UFO UpDate: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:56:28 EDT >>Subject: Sightings Of Fast Moving Lights >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Dear Errol and List: <snip> >>In the evening hours, before full dark, I've seen what look like >>extremely bright objects, points of light, pure white (no >>visible color) and about magnitude zero to negative one. The >>Snip >Hi Jim, hi listmembers! >Jim, could you please tell me a bit more, in detail? Did you see >one light at the time, or many lights? If only one light at >the time, me and some of my acquaintances saw the same thing. There was only one light at any time I witnessed this phenom here in Lower Westchester County (Lower NY State) and one only in the upper part of our county, when witnessed by another person. >Once I saw one with my tiny brother (age then 13 yrs, I was >adult then). These happenings are quite the similar you >described. Only the one with my brother seen did frist fly >straight, then suddenly turn to a zig zag - move, then a >straight for a short while, then turned again to a zigzag. At >the same time its brightness mysteriously started to fade >looking like somebody was fooling around with a lamp. After the >second flight path it vanished like diving to a pocket in the >sky. Of couse, as persons knowing nothing about the miracles of >the space we two kids were sure we had seen a flying saucer... >Now, after many new things learned I think we saw a meteor or a >satellite. I think its brightness started to fade, because it >moved further from the light of the Earth and cities, and that`s >when it couldn`t reflect any light no more. Why the zigzag? i >don`t know, but I`m guessing an optical error, not because of >the so called "tired eye", more like because we saw the zigzag >*before* staring the object. I think the air or the atmosphere >has "broke off" (= sorry my english folks!), and in the dark the >observation isn�t quite the best think anyway, so what happeds >at the atmosphere *makes* the object`s moving look like a >zigzag. I would be very interested to hear any theories why this >happends. >Loves >Minna L from Finland Thank you Minna. The thinking is excellent, but what we saw was (we think) not a meteor, and for several reasons. First, the light was so pure white, with no trail (and no sound, which I usually 'hear' 70% of the time a meteor appears). Secondly, the light curved sharply and reversed it's direction, then curved sharply again and continued it's travel, all while we were watching it. The thought struck that I might have moved my eyes in an attempt to focus and/or track the light, and in doing so, may have confused the movement of my eyes and/or head, with the movement of the light. However this was not so, as the other witness saw the same track as I did. We compared notes. Also, it happened the same way too many times for coincidence, we think. I have since found that she and her husband have experienced what is commonly described as missing time at the time of a sighting of bright objects. This came as a surprise from her, without prior discussion, and without her knowing about my own experiences. We never had a discussion about such matters. She smiled and said, "Maybe it was a flying saucer." But jokingly. The conversation immediately following our mutual sighting of this anomalous light was, "Did you see that? The thing went like gangbusters (we are both in our fifties) back and forth twice." That was the other witness. Independently, I'd seen the same thing and had seen it recently on several other occasions. The only variable is the track taken. Sometimes it's straight line, others it zig zags. Sometimes there is another witness. The only reason I bring this up here, is that I have not heard of this type of sighting before in any of my reading. I did receive an offlist mail from someone who told me, essentially, that when he looks into a bright sky, he sees objects moving in a seemingly focused direction, aimed at a nexus. This is a natural event according to our opthamologist. I have forgotten the medical definition, as I Grippled rather heavily last evening after dreaming of my mother in law, Attilas your Huns. I am still hoping for a natural source of this particular phenom from the list. I hate the sound of that Twighlight Zone music every time I see something unusual. Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:08:09 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:14:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:39:09 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:00:57 EDT >>Subject: Re: Can You 'Hear' A Meteor? >>To: updates@globalserve.net ><snip> >>I've asked this question in a number of venues, without >>explanation. Thank you. In fact, I remember that the evening was >>cool, that there was nothing around me except my dad's 1953 >>Plymouth Cranbrook. >>Hanging on the rear fender (there were real fenders in those >>days, chrome plated, no less) was a twelve foot, center loaded >>whip antenna tuned to the 80 meter (3.5MHz) band and worked on >>160 Meters as well. Also attached to that poor fender was a six >>meter "Halo" antenna, attached to a 1/2 inch aluminum pipe, >>drilled full of holes to make it lighter as well as sing in the >>wind. >>Attached to the antenna was ham gear operating on the 160 meter >>band. Which for you novices out there, is (or used to be) VLF. >>Every time I hear a meteor, and I still do, there are lots of >>skyhooks in the vicinity. Of course, not for a moment did I >>think I was crazy. But it's nice to have that verified. >>Jim Mortellaro >Hi Jim. >Next time you drive out to your favourite dark spot to observe >for meteors and it happens that you are clouded out (a common >occurrence in Canada), you can listen to them instead on your FM >radio. You must be tuned to a very distant radio station which >you normally cannot hear, not a strong local one. When a meteor >streaks across the sky you will briefly hear this distant radio >station (since the ionized trail produced by the meteor will >reflect radio waves from the distant FM station back to Earth). >For hints on where to aim your car mounted antenna to get the >best results for a particular meteor shower and to learn of >other technical tricks to use, check out the following websites >below. >http://www.durhamradio.com/odxa/meteor.html >http://www.imo.net/calendar/cal99.html >If UFOs streaking across the skies also produce such ionized >trails, then it wouldn't be difficult to build a UFO detector >that will make their presence known, even when the sky is >totally overcast. >Nick Balaskas Hi Nick, Errol and List; How right you are. In fact, since the early fifties, this has been one hell of a lot of fun for Ham Radio Operators. On certain frequencies, particularly at 144 MHz and up (450Mhz in another amateur band), the ionized trail permits short but very complete two way contacts at extremely great distances, some, across thousands of miles through bouncing of the HF radio wave off the ionized trail the meteor leaves. I've never used these high frequencies, but have seen and heard the effects often. During the meteor showers, thousands of hams aim, point and squirt low power and often come up with DX on frequencies which are normally only LOS (line of sight). For those of you who still keep a TV antenna on your roof, and some of you may have a rotator, you can have a great time watching your favorite TV show change into something a long way across country during some of these meteor showers, as TV uses 50MHz and up, typically. Just aim it at a weak station or blank channel and wait for the fun. You may even hear a HAM using the six meter band (close by TV frequencies) through the audio of your TV set. Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:39:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:14:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Mon, 27 Sep 99 12:39:04 PDT >>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:50:01 -0500 >>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos <snip> >>I know quite a bit about your involvement in Gulf Breeze. Since >>I don't want to get my contact at CUFOS in trouble...I'll just >>say that according to him/her, you were the one who did not want >>to run anything negative about Gulf Breeze or Dr. Maccabee. >>Since you were the editor, and no one else wanted the job, (too >>much work) they didn't really want to pursue Gulf Breeze (with a >>vengeance) because they thought you would quit. You did print >>articles about Gulf Breeze but under protest. Now I suppose >>this person could have been telling me a tale...but it could >>also be true that back in the beginning of Gulf Breeze, you did >>not want to rock the boat and only later, did you come to a firm >>decision on your opinion of the case. If this is incorrect, set >>me straight, I'll apologize. >A small point: I became editor of IUR in 1985 because Allen >Hynek asked me to, for the same reason that Mark Rodeghier >became CUFOS scientific director. Mark and I were among the >persons Allen hand-picked to continue the organization as he >conceived it. He did that because he trusted us and respected >our judgments and intellects. The last letter I received from >Allen, just a few months before he died, told me how proud he >was of the job I was doing for IUR and CUFOS. Since I am an old man, older than you, I have a vague recollection (when I lived in Chicago) that there were others in CUFOS in the beginning... wasn't there a man named Dr. Smith who was also a friend of Dr. Hyneks? Wasn't he involved? What happened to him? >The stuff you've written is simply your, or somebody's, >invention. Im afraid it is someone else's. Too bad I believed them all these years. They made you out to be the bad guy. >Gulf Breeze was indeed a confusing and in many ways >heartbreaking episode, and it put me at odds with longtime, >valued friends, especially Budd Hopkins, who was hurt because I >could not accept his word on and judgment about Ed Walters's >probity. I know Bruce Maccabee less well than I know Budd, but >I like and respect him, too. I also thought that Bob Boyd, >someone to whom I have never been close, went after Gulf Breeze >with all the balance and objectivity of a grand inquisitor. >Still, though I tried to keep an open mind and listened to all >rational voices, nothing ever overcame my doubts, and rather >early on, it became clear, at least to me (I continue to respect >those who disagree), that Boyd, whatever his shortcomings in >investigative temperament, was in all likelihood right. > >All of us at CUFOS were in accord in our judgment that Walters >was probably not a witness or a photographer to a genuine UFO >case. The contents of IUR reflected that decision. Evans to >the contrary, we ran a number of articles explaining, in >unheated language, why we felt that way. > >It is depressing to deal with somebody -- and, sadly, ufology is >full of that sort -- who cannot resist the temptation to >personalize a dispute, to wax wildly self-righteous, and to >assume that all who don't think exactly as he does are >dishonorable individuals deserving only of contempt. Terry >Evans is one of these people, and since he clearly has little to >no interest in the complexities of reality, only in the cheap >satisfactions of demonization, I respond only to keep the record >straight for others, knowing full well that Evans's own >response, as always, will be the upping of the volume and the >deepening of the slander. You personalize a dispute with your arrogance. It doesn't matter what anyone says or how they say it... you come out swinging. You beg for insults, slander and a fight. I think it is an ego thing with you. This is the first thing you ever said to me. "What a load of malicious crap. I have no idea who Terry Evans is, but that doesn't stop the mindless reputation - trashing, obviously. Evidence, logic, reason, or a sense of proportion never stops this sort of thing, sad to say." And that was because I expressed an opinion on the "good ole boys club". I posed questions and I called no one names. My tone was sober and not inflammatory. <snip> >Having written as much as I have on ufological matters, I think >I can state unequivocally that I have composed more critical >analysis of ufology's and ufologists' shortcomings and failings >than anyone alive. Since you are an expert and a professional writer and researcher, why didn't you contact Mr. Black regarding his investigation of the Kentucky case before you wrote the chapter? I would think that being the professional writer that you are, you would want ot attribute the work to the correct source and get that facts and details of the case correct. After all, you are presenting your encyclopedia as a factual book. Don't you think you should get the facts correct? You want everyone else to. >>Same source on Roswell. >You have no "source" at CUFOS. You're just making this up, >since no one at CUFOS could have testified to things that didn't >happen. I think I know to whom you are alluding as your >authority -- he isn't, by the way -- and you are >mischaracterizing who he is. (Now you have me wondering who you are talking about???) Im not making it up. In fact I was told that CUFOS sponsored a trip to Arizona/New Mexico and everyone who went was out in the desert looking for pieces of debris. My question to this person was, if CUFOS is paying for this, then why don't you print the book and help fund CUFOS? As I recall it had something to do with CUFOS' agreement with Randle and Schmitt. Its been a long time but I think it had to do with something with Friedman or Moore and CUFOS didn't want them to know they were funding it or something. Its been too long and I really didn't care enough to pay strict attention. I don't think this is news. >>If CUFOS backed the first Roswell book, >>why didn't you keep some of the profits? Maybe this person was >>wrong? If so, I would like to know. (If this person is lying, >>then you have a traitor in your midst.) >I have not the slightest idea here what our correspondent, whose >ignorance is as vast as his self-righteousness is tedious, is >talking about. This is crazy, and I'm trying to use a polite >word. Most of the time that is what I think about you. >Is there any reason to pay attention to this guy? >Jerry Clark Ditto. Terry Evans.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:09:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:14:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:14:57 -0400 >From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:55:08 -0500 >>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos <snip> >>>As I said above, Hyzer did his analysis before I even knew there >>>was a playing field. This was such a waste. Here we would have the best there is, Dr. Maccabee and Dr. Hyzer approaching the same question from different areas of expertise. Really analyzing the photos, communicating...and that opportunity was lost. What a terrible shame. ><snip> >>>>>>Interestingly, in all the pictures that Ed Walters took at his >>>>>>home, not one neighbor ever reported seeing any objects that Ed >>>>>>Walters photographed. Not one. There again, that does not mean >>>>>>that Ed Walters photographs are not real, but it is interesting >>>>>to note that not one neighbor saw any object that Ed Walters> >>>>>photographed.> >>>>Wrong. the people across the street had a sighting in early >>>>April. <snip> I am wondering if these are the same people? According to the recent article in the Pennsacola Independent Weekly, Ms. Blair interviewed Rex and Carol Salisberry. "An interesting side note... at the very moment that Walters claimed that the UFO hovered over his house, a neighbor across the street was in his yard with two other men, and none of them saw the UFO, or Walters for that matter." (Referring to the first sighting on Nov. 11, 1987. Terry Evans.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Processed MGS Data - Maybe The 'Face' _Is_ From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:30:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:14:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Processed MGS Data - Maybe The 'Face' _Is_ >From: Steven J. Dunn <SDunn@logicon.com> >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>, >Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:33:13 -0700 >Subject: Processed MGS Data - Maybe The 'Face' _Is_ >In April 1998, NASA released imaged of the Cydonia region and >the "face on Mars" that looked to most, including this humble >correspondent, to be a very natural formation. The "face" was >dead. >However, a search of the NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS) >Astronomy Abstract Service has found an article/presentation, >dated December 1998, that is in variance with the above >conclusion. >"The 'Face on Mars' at Cydonia: Natural or Artificial" by T. >Van Flandern of Meta Research, given in American Astronomical >Society, DPS meeting #30, #55.P31. >One will note that the AAS is definitely not an organization >with UFO or "new age" affiliations. >The abstract says, in part: >"New, high-resolution images taken by the Mars Global Surveyor >(MGS) spacecraft have now been processed. Using height >information from Viking imagery, MGS photos can be >ortho-rectified to show the view as it would have appeared from >overhead - quite different from the view actually seen by the >spacecraft as it passed far to the west, especially in raw, >unprocessed imagery. >"In the properly processed, reconstructed view, we can again >locate the features that appeared to portray eyes, nose, mouth, >and enclosure in the Viking imagery. Remarkably, secondary >facial characteristics not previously seen (eyebrow, pupil, >nostrils, lips) now also appear, each with correct relative >size, shape, location, and orientation. >"Moreover, no background of similar features exists that would >allow us to choose just those that fit the impression of a >face." >Now, your reporter has been accused of going through life >half-asleep, but I do not recall this information being given >the kind of play in the media that the April release did. >However, not being a devotee of Mr. Bell (some of us do need to >sleep-day jobs, you know), and since Hoagland, et al., seemed to >be proven wrong, I have not been paying much attention to this >(I found this article while searching for something else), so if >this is old news to any readers, I apologize in advance. >Nevertheless, MSG data seems to vindicate Hoagland, rather than >the reverse. Steven, and list: More on Van Flandern's position in this matter can be found at: http://www2.eridu.co.uk/eridu/minisites/mars.html He hardly seems like an impartial investigator, but I may be reading more into it than I should. It certainly should be investigated further to put this matter to rest, one way or the other. Steve Kaeser
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Processed MGS Data - Maybe The 'Face' _Is_ From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:49:57 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:19:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Processed MGS Data - Maybe The 'Face' _Is_ Steven J. Dunn writes: >In April 1998, NASA released imaged of the Cydonia region and >the "face on Mars" that looked to most, including this humble >correspondent, to be a very natural formation. The "face" was >dead. The MGS shot of the "Face" on Mars was handled horribly from the beginning--by the news media, predictably, but also by NASA, who released an unprocessed version of the Face to the media in an arguable attempt to kill the issue before any intelligent discourse could materialize. In a way, NASA was being honest: it released the first halfway intelligible image it had right away, killing the otherwise inevitable attempts to shout "cover-up"! But for an agency who publicly claimed a "neutral stand," the horrid April image was used as a "straw man" by the very geologists who insisted it was a non-issue and not worthy of discussion. Weirdly, later the same day, a new "orthorectified" NASA version of the Face was released, which is decidedly Picasso-esque. NASA now uses this in its published articles on the Face, more or less as laugh-fodder. The problem with this unbecoming attitude is that the April image was taken at a near-45 degree angle, making "ortho- rectification" very dubious. The right side of the face in the allegedly "improved" image is essentially a computer artifact based on interpolating data from completely bogus elevation models-- which we have in the form of two frames from the Viking mission. NASA ignored these under the presupposition that the Face was undeserving of study. It wasn't until Mark Carlotto (www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html) enhanced the _existing_ April image that the facial resemblance became more apparent. But by then, of course, NASA had succeeded in making Cydonia out to be a bunch of nonsense, which, in retrospect was obviously their plan in the first place--if this wasn't the case, they never would have passed off the initial unprocessed image as anything more than the mess of pixels it was. (That it looked like absolutely nothing in particular is illustrated in comments by NASA and JPL staffers the day it arrived, comparing it to such utterly disparate things as a "footprint," "a hill," etc.) Conclusion: The "Face" on Mars indeed looks like a Face. Moreover, the Cydonia region is littered with some very compelling anomalies that may or may not have anything to do with intelligent manufacture. This is evidenced by NASA's own unannounced rephotography of the star-shaped "City Pyramid," ostensibly to take a better look at apparent water ice in a neighboring crater. Sadly, NASA has also informally retracted its earlier promise to rephotograph the site "until everyone is satisfied." It wasted a perfect opportunity to do just this on Aug. 26--a chance to get a clean overhead shot of the Face under good light and weather conditions (even NASA grudgingly conceded that the April '98 image was taken through a layer of atmospheric haze). Our next chance is in November. The Face and its associated landforms represent a legitimate scientific anomaly, and one that can be falsified--but only with good data! A failure to pursue this mystery, whether out of cowardice or bureaucratic apathy, may well turn out to be the defining intellectual catastrophe of our era. --Mac Tonnies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 [M-TRAC - MSAA] Mars Mission Successes and Failures From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:56:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:45:56 -0400 Subject: [M-TRAC - MSAA] Mars Mission Successes and Failures From: Steve Wingate <stevew@magiclink.net> Organization: Anomalous Images To: cydonia@admin.listbox.com Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:51:30 -0700 Subject: [M-TRAC - MSAA] Mars Mission Successes and Failures ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date sent: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:43:43 -0500 From: "Mark A. LeCuyer" <randydan@wavetech.net> To: Skywatch <Skyopen@onelist.com> Subject: [SO] Mars Mission Successes and Failures From: "Mark A. LeCuyer" <randydan@wavetech.net> Source: SEDS Hartmut Frommert spider@seds.org Mars Mission Launch Sequence Historic Mars Missions: 1960 October 10, A2-e (Vostok) (Mars 60A), also Koralb 4 (USSR): Failed to achieve Earth orbit 1960 October 14, A2-e (Mars 60B), also Koralb 5 (USSR): Failed to achieve Earth orbit 1962 October 24, A2-e Sputnik 22, also Mars 62A or Koralb 11 (USSR): Failed to leave Earth orbit (blew up) 1962 October 24, A2-e Mars 1 (USSR): First probe to pass Mars (at about 190,000 km), but contact lost on March 21, 1963 1962 November 4, A2-e Sputnik 24, also Mars 62B or Koralb 13 (USSR): Failed to leave Earth orbit (blew up) 1964 November 5, Atlas-Agena D Mariner 3 (Nasa): Launched by Atlas-Agena D, Mariner 3 went into Solar orbit, but as the aerodynamic protection shroud failed to be jetisoned, it reached a wrong orbit and failed Mars by a wide margin 1964 November 28, Atlas-Agena D Mariner 4 (Nasa): First successful Mars mission. Passed the red planet at 9825 km on July 14, 1965, and returned 22 TV pictures of its surface. Discovered the cratered nature of Mars' surface. Mariner 4 image; Mariner 4 mission page (JPL); Mariner 4 page in Calvin Hamilton's solar system tour (Hawaii Astronomical Society) 1964 November 30, A2-e Zond 2 (USSR): Passed Mars at less than 1000 miles (1500 km) on August 6, 1965, but communications was lost on May 4 or 5, 1965, so no data were returned. [1965 July 18], A2-e Zond 3 (USSR): Flight to Mars orbit (not the planet). Transmitted 25 images of the lunar far side, communication from up to 31 million km 1967 March 27, A2-e (unnamed Mars ?) (USSR): Launch Failure 1969 February 24, Atlas-Centaur Mariner 6 (Nasa): Successful fly-by at 2120 miles (3410 km) occurred on July 31, 1969. Returned data and 75 photos, mainly from the equatorial region. Found that most of Mars' atmosphere was made of carbon dioxide. Mariner 6 or 7 image; Mariner 6 & 7 mission page (JPL); Mariner 6 & 7 page in Calvin Hamilton's Solar System tour (Hawaii Astronomical Society) 1969 March 27, Atlas-Centaur Mariner 7 (Nasa): Successful fly-by at 2190 miles (3524 km) on August 5, 1969; returned data and 126 photos, flying over the south polar region. Was probably struck and slightly damaged by meteor a few days before arrival. Mariner 6 or 7 image; Mariner 6 & 7 mission page (JPL); Mariner 6 & 7 page in Calvin Hamilton's Solar System tour (Hawaii Astronomical Society) 1969 March 27, D1-e (Proton) (Unnamed Mars 69A) (USSR): Failed to achieve Earth orbit 1969 April 14, D1-e (Unnamed Mars 69B) (USSR): Failed to achieve Earth orbit 1971 May 8, Atlas-Centaur Mariner 8 (Nasa): Due to second stage failure of the launcher, fell into Atlantic. 1971 May 10, D1-e Cosmos 419 (USSR): Intended orbiter/lander mission, failed to leave Earth orbit 1971 May 19, D1-e Mars 2 (USSR): The Mars 2 Orbiter reached Mars orbit of 860x15,500 miles (1380x25,000 km) successfully on November 27, 1971. The lander became the first human-made object to reach the surface of Mars when it crashed on the planet on the same day. Because of a global dust storm at arrival time, the orbiter could return only pictures with little surface detail. 1971 May 28, D1-e Mars 3 (USSR): The Orbiter reached Mars orbit (930x124,000 miles, 1500x200,000 km) successfully on December 2, 1971. The lander achieved the first soft landing on Mars on the same day (at 45 deg S, 158 deg W, between Electris and Phaetontis regions), but failed after 110 seconds after transmitting a small portion of a picture. Together with the images returned by Mars 2, a color picture of the global dust storm of December 1971 was composed. 1971 May 30, Atlas-Centaur Mariner 9 (Nasa): Successfully achieved Mars orbit of 850 x 10,650 miles (1390 x 17,140 km) to become Mars' first artificial satellite, and returned 7,329 TV pictures covering the entire surface of Mars, providing the first full photographic atlas, or photo globe, of a celestial body, until it was shut down on October 27, 1972 after 698 orbits, or 349 days in orbit (a total mission of 515 days). Discovered volcanoes, flow channels, and more surface structures. Mariner 9 image: 7k gif, 21k jpg, 279k jpg; Mariner 9 mission page (JPL); Mariner 9 page in Calvin Hamilton's Solar System tour (Hawaii Astronomical Society); Mariner 9 stuff from the NSSDC database. 1973 July 21, D1-e Mars 4 (USSR): Intended Mars orbiter; arrived at Mars on February 10, 1974, but failed to get inserted in Mars orbit, and passed by the planet at 2240 km. 1973 July 25, D1-e Mars 5 (USSR): Reached Mars orbit on February 12, 1974, but failed 10 days after orbit insertion, after returning some photos. 1973 August 5, D1-e Mars 6 (USSR): Lander spacecraft; crashed on Mars on March 12, 1974. 1973 August 9, D1-e Mars 7 (USSR): Intended lander, missed Mars by 1280 km on March 9, 1974. 1975 August 20, Titan IIIe - Centaur - TE 364-4 Viking 1 (Nasa): Orbiter and lander mission (a Viking craft is shown in our image; the lander is sitting above the orbiter, packed in the protection cover). The spacecraft reached Mars orbit on June 19, 1976, the lander softlanded on Mars on July 20, 1976, in Chryse Planitia at 22.48 d North areographic latitude, 48.01 d Western longitude. Both orbiter and lander performed extremely successful missions, but the lander's bio experiments returned ambiguous results concerning microbiotic life on Mars. Viking Orbiter 1 was successfully working until August 7, 1980, when it went out of altitude control propellant, Viking Lander 1 until November 13, 1982 when it was accidentally shut down. 1975 September 5, Titan IIIe - Centaur - TE 364-4 Viking 2 (Nasa): Orbiter and lander mission. Reached Mars orbit on August 7, 1976, lander softlanded on September 3, 1976, in Utopia Planitia 47.97 d N, 225.74 d W, 7,420 km North-East of Viking 1. Both Viking 2 orbiter and lander were equally successful as the sister craft Viking 1; Viking Orbiter 2 was active until July 25, 1978, when its altitude control propellant had been used up, Viking Lander 2 returned data up to August 7, 1980, when Viking Orbiter 1 was shut down, which had been served as communications relay. Both Viking missions were extremely fruitful in both the quality and the quantity of accquired data: The orbiters collected some 52,000 images and cartographed 97 per cent of the Martian surface from orbit, often from different angles so that the topography could be determined. The landers returned some 4,500 photos and weather data from the Martian surface, documenting seasonal changes, besides the well-known soil investigations and bio experiments. Viking spacecraft image (inflight configuration with orbiter and lander; shown in this page); Viking info, images and links at SEDS; Viking homepage at Nasa's NSSDC; Viking homepage at NASM; Viking page in Calvin Hamilton's Solar System tour (Hawaii Astronomical Society) 1988 July 5, D1-e Phobos 1 (USSR): Intended to investigate Mars' moon Phobos, this craft lost contact midway on September 2, 1988 because of an erroneous control command sequence. Phobos Homepage; Phobos image [10k gif]; Phobos image [29k jpg]; Phobos page in Calvin Hamilton's Solar System tour (Hawaii Astronomical Society) 1988 July 12, D1-e Phobos 2 (USSR): Successfully reached Mars orbit on January 29, 1989, and returned data and photos of Mars and Phobos. During an approaching manoeuver to Phobos, the craft lost orientation due to computer defect, and suffered energy loss, which terminated the mission. Phobos Homepage; Phobos image [10k gif]; Phobos image [29k jpg]; Phobos page in Calvin Hamilton's Solar System tour (Hawaii Astronomical Society) 1992 September 25, Titan IIIe-TOS Mars Observer (Nasa): Reached Mars on August 21, 1993, and sent some TV images on approach. Contact was lost during its orbit insertion ignition; it may have been damaged, blewn up, or simply frozen after having lost orientation. Mars Observer spacecraft image [22k gif, caption]; Mars Observer images at SEDS; Mars Observer Images from its interplanetary cruise at Malin Space Science Systems; Mars Observer page at HEASARC (GSFC/Nasa) 1996 November 7, Delta II Mars Global Surveyor (Nasa): Mars orbiter, launched from KSC, Cape Canaveral. Reached Mars and successfully entered Mars orbit on September 11, 1997. Uses aerobraking for achieving the low Mars orbit required for the intended orbital investigations of the Red Planet, to begin in early 1998. MGS spacecraft image [141k gif]; MGS info, images and links at SEDS; MGS Homepage 1996 November 16, D1-e Mars 96 (Russia): intended Mars orbiter with 4 landers and 2 penetrators; experiments from 22 countries. Failed to leave Earth orbit, and decayed soon after liftoff. Mars 96 homepage 1996 December 4, Delta II Mars Pathfinder (Nasa); renamed Carl Sagan Memorial Station after landing: Mars lander with Sojourner rover. Launched from KSC, Cape Canaveral; softlanded on Mars on July 4, 1997, in direct approach, in Ares Valley, at 19.5 d N, 32.8 d W. Sojourner was released to the Martian surface on July 6, and performed investigations of Martian soil and rocks around MPF. Both spacecraft operated extremely successful until the last data transmission on September 27, 1997, and after a last signal received on October 7, 1997, contact was lost, perhaps because of battery failure partially due to falling temperatures at the landing site. MPF image; Sojourner image; MPF info, images and links at SEDS; Mars Pathfinder homepage 1998 July 4 (M-V) Nozomi (Hope), formerly Planet-B (Japan). Orbiter to study Mars' upper atmosphere. After 2 Lunar and one Earth swingby manouvers, the craft got "insufficient acceleration", causing a delay of more than 4 years for its arrival at Mars, which is now to occur in December 2003. Nozomi image [158k gif] 1998 October 24 - not a Mars mission! Deep Space 1 (Nasa). Was scheduled as Asteroid/Mars/Comet flyby mission, with scheduled Mars encounter on April 18, 2000. With lauch shifted from 1998 July 1 to October 24, this mission was newly targetted and no more included a Mars flyby. Deep Space 1 homepage 1998 December 10 Mars Climate Orbiter (Nasa), former Mars Surveyor 1998 Orbiter. Was to study Martian weather and climate. Contact to spacecraft lost when it disappeared behind planet Mars for Mars Orbit Insertion on September 23, 1999. The spacecraft was probably destroyed in Mars' atmosphere when it came too close to the planet due to a navigation error. Mars Climate Orbiter image [5k jpg]; MCO homapage and Mars Surveyor 98 page (JPL) 1999 January 3 Mars Polar Lander (Nasa), former Mars Surveyor 1998 Lander. To study soil and meteorology near South Polar region; to carry two soil penetrator microprobes (Deep Space 2). Mars Polar Lander image [25k jpg]; MPL, DS 2 and Mars Surveyor 98 homepage (JPL) Missions currently under way: 1996 November 7, Delta II, currently operating in Mars orbit. Mars Global Surveyor (Nasa): Mars orbiter, launched from KSC, Cape Canaveral. Reached Mars and successfully entered Mars orbit on September 11, 1997. Uses aerobraking for achieving the low Mars orbit required for the intended orbital investigations of the Red Planet, to begin in early 1998. 1998 July 4 (M-V) Nozomi (Hope), formerly Planet-B (Japan). Orbiter to study Mars' upper atmosphere. After 2 Lunar and one Earth swingby manouvers, the craft got "insufficient acceleration", causing a delay of more than 4 years for its arrival at Mars, which is now to occur in December 2003. Planet-B image [158k gif] 1999 January 3 Mars Polar Lander (Nasa), former Mars Surveyor 1998 Lander. To study soil and meteorology near South Polar region; to carry two soil penetrator microprobes (Deep Space 2). Mars Polar Lander image [25k jpg] MPL, DS 2 and Mars Surveyor 98 homepage (JPL) Missions scheduled for the future: 2001 March Mars Surveyor 2001 Orbiter (Nasa). To test aerocapture techniques, study Mars from orbit, serve as communications relay for lander. Mars Surveyor 2001 Orbiter info (NSSDC) 2001 April Mars Surveyor 2001 Lander (Nasa). To carry a rover (Athena), perform studies on Mars surface. Mars Surveyor 2001 Lander info (NSSDC) 2003 January Rosetta (ESA). Mars/asteroid/comet mission, will flyby Mars for gravity assist in 2006, to finally reach and land on Comet Wirtanen. Rosetta homepage at ESOC/ESA 2003 Mars Surveyor 2003 Orbiter (Nasa). To study Mars from orbit, and serve as communications relay. Mars 2003 and 2005 page (NSSDC) 2003 Mars Surveyor 2003 Lander (Nasa). To carry a rover, and perform various studies on Martian surface. Mars 2003 and 2005 page (NSSDC) 2003, D1-e Mars Express (ESA), Orbiter and several landers (to be confirmed) Esa News on Mars Express 2005 Mars Surveyor 2005 Orbiter (France and Nasa). To study Mars from orbit, and serve as communications relay, and return samples to Earth. Mars 2003 and 2005 page (NSSDC) 2005 Mars Surveyor 2005 Lander (Nasa): Mars Sample Return Mission. To return Martian soil samples, possibly collected by the rover of either Mars Surveyor 2001 or 2003 Lander. Mars ISRU Sample Return (MISR) mission, Mars 2003 and 2005 page (NSSDC) 2007 Mars Surveyor 2007 Lander (Nasa, under study) To carry a rover and take soil samples for return to Earth. Mentioned in Mars 2003 and 2005 page (NSSDC) 2009 Mars Surveyor 2009 Lander (Nasa, under study) To carry a rover and take soil samples for return to Earth. Mentioned in Mars 2003 and 2005 page (NSSDC) 2009 Mars Surveyor 2009 Orbiter (Nasa, under study) To study Mars from orbit, serve as relay, and return Lander-collected soil samples. Mentioned in Mars 2003 and 2005 page (NSSDC) 2011 Mars Surveyor 2011 Lander (Nasa, under study) To carry a rover and take soil samples for return to Earth. Mentioned in Mars 2003 and 2005 page (NSSDC) 2013 Mars Surveyor 2013 Lander (Nasa, under study) To carry a rover and take soil samples for return to Earth. Mentioned in Mars 2003 and 2005 page (NSSDC) 2013 Mars Surveyor 2013 Orbiter (Nasa, under study) To study Mars from orbit, serve as relay, and return Lander-collected soil samples. Mentioned in Mars 2003 and 2005 page (NSSDC) For the time after 2005, a continuation of the research missions is planned. Nasa officials have expressed their intention that these efforts should eventually be leading to a Mars mission with a human crew to be launched in 2018 (and to arrive at Mars in 2019), and to begin an era of permanent human presence on our neighbor planet. These dates are under steady review, with the aim to do the mission sooner: CNN reported of plans for a manned mission in 2012, while also dates as early as 2007 have been proposed. For references and links to images, please visit: http://www.seds.org/~spider/mars/mars-l.html -Mark- Alien Astronomer - Exploring Our Universe http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583 Astronomy, UFOlogy, Secret Societies, Hi-Tech Secret Projects ---------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Wingate California Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Anomalous Images and UFO Files http://www.anomalous-images.com -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o- Mars Surface Anomaly Analysis Possible artifacts on Mars http://www.mufor.org/ares/ The M-TRAC Project A private, unmanned mission to Mars http://www.mufor.org/mtrac/ Please support this mailing list by sending $1 to Malta UFO Research, PO Box 14, Rabat RBT 01, Malta or if you want to buy any books from Amazon.com use the links and search engine at http://www.mufor.org/store.html from which we earn a small commission. Thanks!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: CPR-Canada News: Updated Acadia Valley & From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:26:09 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:51:22 -0400 Subject: Re: CPR-Canada News: Updated Acadia Valley & CPR-Canada News News and Updates from Circles Phenomenon Research Canada http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Update on Acadia Valley and Edmonton #2 Crop Formations September 29, 1999 _____________________________ Editor: Paul Anderson _____________________________ Update - September 29 By Paul Anderson ACADIA VALLEY, ALBERTA Judy Arndt has done a complete ground survey of the Acadia Valley crop formation (September 4). A full report with ground images and updated diagram can be found at the following link: http://www.treasurehouseimports.com/cropcircles/acadiavalley99/acadia.html Many ruptured nodes were found in this formation and it has been sampled for the BLT Research Team. EDMONTON, ALBERTA #2 The second formation in the Edmonton region (September 21) is another variation on a sort of "Julia Set" or fractal type theme (see updated diagram attached, � Paul Anderson). Formation consists of seven circles, in barley, and is approximately 190 feet across. All of the circles have a *radial* lay pattern, with the crop radiating out from the centres of the circles, not swirled in the usual rotational lay pattern. There are many stretched nodes on the plant stalks from within the formation, from 200% to 300% normal. According to Nancy Talbott of the BLT Research Team, this is the most ever seen in a barley formation or even most wheat formations. Also, the field is full of thick, tall thistle plants, which were flattened down along with the barley inside the formation, and make walking through the field very difficult to do without scratching one's self to shreds! A ground survey / images from Judy Arndt will be available soon for this formation as well. POSSIBLE DRUMHELLER, ALBERTA FORMATION(S) There is also an unconfirmed report of another set of circles near Drumheller in Alberta, reported this morning. More details when available. If anyone has further information on this, please let me know. Paul Anderson Director CPR-Canada _____________________________ Circle Phenomena in Canada Report Archive 1999: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/1999.html A reminder for all Canadian subscribers / readers - your assistance is welcome and needed - ANY reports of other possible circles this year, please do let us know as soon as possible! See Reporting and Field Research Guidelines on the web site for more information: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310/reporting.html REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522 _____________________________ CPR-Canada News is the e-mail update service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International), and is published periodically or as breaking news develops, with the latest news and information and is available free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or "unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to: psa@direct.ca CPR-Canada welcomes your reports and submissions. Forward all correspondence to: CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Circles Phenomenon Research International Main Office Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 � Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 1999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 99 22:30:23 PDT Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:55:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:51:54 -0400 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:01:05 -0500 Patient and gentle listfolk: >>Thanks for being the voice of reason here. One of the main >>reasons why 'ufology' is so unattractive to mainstream >>scientists is precisely this descent into ad hominems that you >>so rightly abhor. As an amateur astronomer (with a degree in >>astronomy), I am no stranger to controversy. However, it is >>rare, almost unknown, for theoretical disagreements between >>astronomers to degenerate into personal attacks in public >>forums. >Your contrasting theoretical disagreements between astronomers >and dissent in ufology is highly inappropriate. Perhaps you have >not set aside some time to apply thought to this issue. Is the >field of astronomy brimming with crackpotism and nutcases? Does >the field of astronomy involve claims in which private >investigators, hypnosis and/or polygraph tests become a major >part of investigations, and does astronomy deal with hoaxers and >hucksters, and do the leaders in the astronomical field >frequently and regrettably put profit ahead of truth? What does Mr. Young mean by "private investigators"? Private detectives? Does he think that witnesses ought to be treated as potential criminals? I guess so, since he tells us that "polygraph tests" -- judged virtually useless by an army of critics in criminology and science -- are "a major part of investigations." Along the way he perpetuates the tired and mindless slander that ufologists are in it for the money. Hey, guy, if you find one of those wealthy ufologists, could you direct him my way? I sure could use a loan right now. The mere sight of my current bank balance puts me at risk of a heart attack. >Yes, it is unfortunate that personal attacks go hand in hand >with some of these ufological debates. But since you applauded >Jerome Clark for �voice of reason� during argumentation, let�s >take a fresh look at some of his previous comments from this >discussion so that you and the friendly reader can decide >whether or not Clark has demonstrated himself as the keen >officer of courtesy and civility that you proclaim. Mr. Young goes on here to take out of context remarks made in response to unwarranted, irresponsible attacks on my and others' good names and reputations. Revealingly, it is not those attacks he objects to; it is my response to them. This is terribly sad, and sadly revealing. Like the self-righteous everywhere, he and his associates want to dish it out without having to take it. Young, Evans, and Black demonstrate what happens when ufology is treated as an excuse to short-circuit real debate by trashing those with whom one disagrees. It was they who came on as judges, jurors, and executioners, and now they profess to be baffled and outraged when their intended victims complain about the unfairness of the trial and show up the bankruptcy of the prosection's case. >Straight, it seems that Jerome Clark�s past comments >to his fellow disputants could hardly be seen as an outbreak of >courtesy, nor do his comments reflect an outstanding departure >from the mud-flinging and finger pointing involved with >�ufological dissent� that you would have us believe. Perhaps >your idea of enlightened theoretical dissent is constrained only >to the side you choose to affiliate with. As I've said, those who go back to the exchanges Young so selectively quotes from will see that I was responding to malicious personal slurs, which Black and Evans were unable to document but which they couldn't seem not to repeat. They can't seem to understand why slanders make their intended victims angry, or why someone would resent having his motivations subject to the wild imaginings of those who don't seem much concerned with supporting evidence for same. If, on the other hand, the argument had been about the merits of a specific case and my opponents had confined themselves to discourse on the failings of the evidence -- as opposed to the indulgence of nasty, fact-free speculations on the motives of those who presumed to hold views of which they do not approve -- I would have been out of line if I had responded with attacks on their character. In fact, I would have been behaving just as these guys have been behaving. Since all they were talking about, in fact, was the supposedly corrupt motivations of individuals none of them knows, how else to respond except to call them character assassins? If you don't want to be called a character assassination, don't assassinate characters. Got that, guys? I am not impressed. I will fight to my last breath efforts to turn ufology into the sorry exercise Young, Black, and Evans seem to want it to be. If we are going to get anywhere, we must first acknowledge that even those who hold views unlike ours -- exasperating as they can be to us -- are far more likely to be sincere and well- intentioned than otherwise. Y, B, and E, sad to say, may never grasp this simple point, but it is one of the founding principles of a civilized society. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Get Real From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:57:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:00:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Get Real >Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:49:22 -0500 >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Get Real >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Last night while my kids were flipping through the channels >searching for something to watch, they happened across "Close >Encounters Of The Third Kind" so we watched the last hour of the >show. Remember the part where a "mother ship" lands, or hovers, >whatever, and a huge ramp lowers? After a suspenseful pause, >these people who were abducted 50, 40, 30 years ago or just last >week come walking down the ramp in a daze. Onlookers are shown >smiling these great big smiles and one technician comments, "He >hasn't aged a day. I guess Einstein was right." >Now, what is wrong with this picture? >Abductees, taken from their lives years ago, are finally >returned by their abductors and everyone thinks this is just >hunky-dorey. These abductees may not have aged a day since they >were abducted but their lives have been totally disrupted. Most >of their family and friends, if still alive, have continued to >age in their absence. They have no jobs, their education would >be out of date compared to today's standards and they will have >to adjust to a very changed world. So why is everyone smiling? >No one knows what was done to these abductees yet these UFOs and >"aliens" are welcomed with open arms. It doesn't seem to matter >that citizens of this planet were taken against their wills and >returned years and years later. To hell with the abductees, we >have made _contact_! You are absolutely right. It says its OK to be abducted and its even better to go willingly. Well, you might just learn something the gov can use! I have never understood the UFO faction (Sprinkle for one) who makes abduction so "friendly". If a human were to kidnap another human, rape them, experiment on them (war crimes?) wouldn't it be a punishable offense? Someone please explain the difference. Terry Evans.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Strieber Rallies UFO Faithful, Rails Against From: Stephen MILES Lewis <elfis@austin.rr.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:23:36 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:11:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber Rallies UFO Faithful, Rails Against >Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:35:01 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> >Subject: Strieber Rallies UFO Faithful, Rails Against 'Denial' Thanks for finding and posting this Stig. And thanks to Jim Moseley, Dennis Stacy and all the speakers and attendees at this happy 36th NUFOConf. I had a blast mingling with so many diverse perspectives. I really enjoyed Patrick Huyghe's Field Guide approach to ExtraTerrestrials speech - the best of any I heard. When the bulk of speakers can give us an adequate hypothesis to account for this diversity of UFO occupant forms I think we will finally have something to really celebrate. Below are a couple observations relating to Strieber's speech: <snip> >The French Connection >"The French have what they consider incontrovertible evidence of >something unknown in the atmosphere flying around," he told his >San Antonio audience. "There's no question the United States >keeps something secret about this. I think it's the biggest >secret they're keeping, and it's something wrong." One of the 'pseudo bombshells' from Whit was... ...that because of the recent French COMETA UFO report (mentioned previously on this List) there may be an official request from France to the USofA as to the reason for all the UFO secrecy. I don't recall if he said this would be done via the UN or not. <snip> >Hall of mirrors Another of the important things he mentioned was his book Majestic in its fictional attempts at understanding the Roswell incident. He says that he spoke to his family members who had been in the military back then and they all said it was understood that it really _was_ a disc. His reference to this book was fleeting and seemed casual and honest... that he felt it was a decent probable understanding of the event. Also he spoke of the nature of the government "cover up and conspiracy" saying that the need to know basis of so much in the Security/Intelligence industry that related to UFOs had led to a fracturing of any real knowledge of the totality of the situation. He suggests that the need to know condition would eleminate most of the _real_ knowledge being accessible even to high level individuals and groups. Couple this with the probability that what each person _knows_ is in fact a little misinfo and you have a sort of patch work of knowledge among members of the multiple conspiracies. This is something I have thought all along but which takes time to sink in... the idea that there may be entire factions of UFO groups within different departments and agencies, each with a different UFO agenda, which have no real idea of what's going on. Whit went so far as to suggest that this may have become _so_ bad that there may be no one who really knows what the heck is going on. That the different agencies who have dealt with this over the years are as spotty in their assesment of what is going on as ufology and the public are. >To sum up his opinion on the aliens' motivations for toying with >humans in increasingly intimate ways, Strieber said the UFO >entities were most likely trying to preserve the novelty of an >encounter with another intelligent race -- humanity -- as long >as possible. In this part he sounded like Terence McKenna (as did Joe Firmage) going on about novelty theory - without the mushroom references of course. Strieber was citing an article from SCIENCE magazine of May 1977 I believe. SMiles Lewis http://www.elfis.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Strieber Won A Caldecott? Come Again? From: Wendy Christensen <christensen@catlas.mv.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:21:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:15:20 -0400 Subject: Strieber Won A Caldecott? Come Again? Well, _someone_ is certainly confused! >>He noted that the last such honor he had received was a >>Caldecott award in 1985, and that his career had swerved quite >>far from the "awards track" soon thereafter as he suffered the >>experiences that would later become the book Communion. Poor Whit! He's really lost it... Whitley Strieber has never won "a Caldecott award" in 1985 or any other year. Either he misspoke, someone misreported or the greys have really taken control of poor Whit's brain cells more than even he assumes! The Randolph Caldecott medal is awarded annually to an illustrated children's book. There _is_ an illustrated childrens' book about alien abduction, called "Ceto's New Friends." But Whit didn't write it or illustrate it and, in any case, it's not exactly Caldecott material. Here's a reader review from Amazon: "Simple text about an unusual friendship. This simple text will be reassuring to children who have been visited by a "playmate" like Ceto -- in their dreams or otherwise. The storyline follows the apparent facts about aliens as reported in myriad encounter cases without being scary (Ceto speaks with his eyes and enters his spaceship on a beam of light). With a hint of adventure (Annie and Seth take a ride in Ceto's spaceship), the book will delight beginning readers who are already hearing about aliens on TV, in movies and in books." Purrrrs... Wendy Christensen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 99 23:17:35 PDT Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:22:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:39:40 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 99 12:39:04 PDT >>>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:50:01 -0500 >>>From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos Mr. Evans, with apologies to patient and gentle listfolk: >>>I know quite a bit about your involvement in Gulf Breeze. Since >>>I don't want to get my contact at CUFOS in trouble...I'll just >>>say that according to him/her, you were the one who did not want >>>to run anything negative about Gulf Breeze or Dr. Maccabee. >>>Since you were the editor, and no one else wanted the job, (too >>>much work) they didn't really want to pursue Gulf Breeze (with a >>>vengeance) because they thought you would quit. You did print >>>articles about Gulf Breeze but under protest. Now I suppose >>>this person could have been telling me a tale...but it could >>>also be true that back in the beginning of Gulf Breeze, you did >>>not want to rock the boat and only later, did you come to a firm >>>decision on your opinion of the case. If this is incorrect, set >>>me straight, I'll apologize. >Since I am an old man, older than you, You are only very slightly older than I am, two or three years at most. I will be 53 almost exactly two months from now. >I have a vague >recollection (when I lived in Chicago) that there were others in >CUFOS in the beginning... wasn't there a man named Dr. Smith who >was also a friend of Dr. Hyneks? Wasn't he involved? What >happened to him? No, Dr. Smith was not involved with CUFOS. I know personally just about everybody from CUFOS' history, from the earliest days to the present. Smith's only association with CUFOS was an essentially indirect one, a friendship with Allen Hynek, but he lived in Pennsylvania, then Florida, and was not involved with the organization or informed about what went on inside it (or any more than any other outsider would be). He was closest to Allen after Allen left Chicago, resigned as CUFOS president, and battled (in his new Scottsdale, Arizona, home) with the serious illness that eventually killed him. Smith spent a lot of time with Allen in those last months, as Allen was dying of brain cancer. I think the only time I've ever seen Smith was at a UFO conference, and I don't even recall that we spoke. I don't know the man, though we have published articles of his on occasion in IUR. If memory serves, Smith did some investigating of Gulf Breeze, but it was on his own, not as a CUFOS representative. CUFOS' man on the scene was, as I've explained, Bob Boyd, and I know Boyd knew Smith. >>The stuff you've written is simply your, or somebody's, >>invention. >Im afraid it is someone else's. Too bad I believed them all >these years. They made you out to be the bad guy. I appreciate the "believed" in the sentence above and will take it as a gracious gesture on your part. Thank you. Listfolk should know that "they" is a man who was not a CUFOS insider, in fact lived nowhere near Chicago, where I lived at the time and where CUFOS is headquartered. Some years ago he circulated a whole lot of strange charges against me, which I refuted in detail. It was a monumentally unpleasant episode. Fortunately, this individual and I long ago made peace with one another, and I don't want to say more for fear of reviving an ancient conflict best relegated to history's ashes. Nobody involved with CUFOS at the time we were going through the tensions and controversies of the GB period has ever challenged my account of what went on there. No one could, since it's the truth. It's always interesting to me that in this, as in other matters, my accusers are always persons who don't know me and who, if they can cite any authority at all, are reducing to hints about anonymous informants. I'm not impressed. >>It is depressing to deal with somebody -- and, sadly, ufology is >>full of that sort -- who cannot resist the temptation to >>personalize a dispute, to wax wildly self-righteous, and to >>assume that all who don't think exactly as he does are >>dishonorable individuals deserving only of contempt. Terry >>Evans is one of these people, and since he clearly has little to >>no interest in the complexities of reality, only in the cheap >>satisfactions of demonization, I respond only to keep the record >>straight for others, knowing full well that Evans's own >>response, as always, will be the upping of the volume and the >>deepening of the slander. >You personalize a dispute with your arrogance. It doesn't >matter what anyone says or how they say it... you come out >swinging. You beg for insults, slander and a fight. I think it >is an ego thing with you. Well, you would know about ego things, I guess. But hey, didn't you forget to mention that I was responding to your slander about my character? You mean I was supposed to say, hey, I don't mind that somebody who doesn't know me, or even know much _about_ me, is trashing my good name? You just love to dish it out, but you just can't take it, can you? Get off your high horse, my friend. It might do you some good to walk on the ground with the rest of us. >This is the first thing you ever said to me. >"What a load of malicious crap. I have no idea who Terry Evans >is, but that doesn't stop the mindless reputation - trashing, >obviously. Evidence, logic, reason, or a sense of proportion >never stops this sort of thing, sad to say." >And that was because I expressed an opinion on the "good ole >boys club". I posed questions and I called no one names. My tone >was sober and not inflammatory. Yup, it was a load of malicious crap. You depicted me as an intellectually corrupt opportunist, which was what your pal Jerry Black, with whom you were agreeing, indicated is one of several unflattering personal features that qualify one for membership in the "good ole boys club." Your phony air of wounded innocence does you no credit. >>Having written as much as I have on ufological matters, I think >>I can state unequivocally that I have composed more critical >>analysis of ufology's and ufologists' shortcomings and failings >>than anyone alive. >Since you are an expert and a professional writer and >researcher, why didn't you contact Mr. Black regarding his >investigation of the Kentucky case before you wrote the chapter? >I would think that being the professional writer that you are, >you would want ot attribute the work to the correct source and >get that facts and details of the case correct. After all, you >are presenting your encyclopedia as a factual book. Don't you >think you should get the facts correct? You want everyone else >to. I wrote an encylopedia that comprises five volumes and, I would estimate, some 2,000,000 words, covering virtually every aspect of ufology, social and natural, and covering two centuries in depth. The bibliography alone comprises some 4000 items. When you write a book of that length, it is humanly impossible to make no errors. What has gratified me about the encyclopedia is that I apparently made so few, based on the feedback I have received from colleagues. The UFO Encyclopedia is now the standard reference both in the field and outside it. I did it, moreover, virtually alone; 90% of it is my own work. When you are writing an encyclopedia, nobody in the history of encyclopedia-writing has had the luxury of depending solely on primary sources and personal investigations. If I had interviewed everybody involved, I would never have been able even to begin to finish the book. As all writers and educated readers know, encyclopedias by definition are syntheses, not the products of the author/ compiler's original investigative reporting (though I was able to make good use of others' investigative reporting, much of which had not been discussed in print before; I was also able to draw on my own field investigations done years before I ever imagined I'd write the encyclopedia). There is a lot of new, previously unpublished information in the series. Based on what I've seen of Black's work on this list, by the way, I am not sure -- to be frank -- to trust that anything he told me wasn't being filtered through some pretty deep and distorting personal biases. I tend not to trust, as I think I've made clear, the self-righteous. My investigator-heroes are people like Walt Webb, Bill Weitzel, Ted Bloecher, Jennie Zeidman, Jenny Randles, Isabel Davis, Ted Phillips, Olavo Fontes, and others sung and unsung. All of them managed to do their business without spending a lot of time trashing their colleagues. >Im not making it up. In fact I was told that CUFOS sponsored a >trip to Arizona/New Mexico and everyone who went was out in the >desert looking for pieces of debris. My question to this person >was, if CUFOS is paying for this, then why don't you print the >book and help fund CUFOS? As I recall it had something to do >with CUFOS' agreement with Randle and Schmitt. Its been a long >time but I think it had to do with something with Friedman or >Moore and CUFOS didn't want them to know they were funding it or >something. Its been too long and I really didn't care enough to >pay strict attention. I don't think this is news. CUFOS did go on a trip to what was thought to be the Roswell crash site. Randle and Schmitt, however, wrote their books on their own, as freelance writers and not as CUFOS projects. Meantime, CUFOS' investigation of the events in Roswell continues. Let's get back to ufology. This other stuff has already taken up too much time for everybody. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:34:07 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:26:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk> Source: CUFON, http://www.cufon.org/cufon/fbihynek.htm I am only bringing the introduction. Links are preceded by an *asterisk. Stig *** FBI FILE of Dr. J. ALLEN HYNEK CUFON COMMENT: 17-September-1999 ** Through the Freedom of Information Act, we have obtained the material that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has released as the files it was maintaining on Dr. Josef Allen Hynek, an icon in the history of UFO. Dr Hynek, an astronomer and physicist, was a consultant to the USAF for many years, and later founded the Center for UFO Studies. We want to make clear right up front, that we have made this material available not to embarrass, to impugn the memory, or tarnish the reputation of Dr. Hynek, but to provide an insight to the workings of the FBI. as relates to a scientist who had an interest in UFO. What we received in July, 1999 comprised about 30 pages and it seems likely from references in these documents and from the small number of pages released, that only a part of the files on Dr. Hynek being maintained by the FBI were released. The pages we received had been previously processed and released. These FBI files, released even as the FBI and other agencies destroy historical documents en masse, usually concentrate on possible communist associations, leanings or thoughts of a person. It's always amazing to us how many of a person's co-workers, neighbors, friends and acquaintances the FBI interviews to get the material for the files. A big "thank you" goes to Michael Ravnitsky - a serious student and user of the FOIA - whose advice allowed us to obtain this file, and who has helped us and many others on other FOIA submissions. Some of Michael's FOIA results can be viewed at *SECRET NO MORE, a web site where a compilation of high-profile and historically significant FBI files is posted. Michael urges all interested parties to file with the FBI to obtain files in which they are interested before they are lost forever due to destruction by the FBI. CUFON notes that, to some extent, older files being held by any federal agency are in similar peril. The Article by Dr. Hynek published in the February 1975 FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin and mentioned in the file below, titled *The UFO Mystery, is available here on CUFON. <snipped)>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:26:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:45:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And >Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:05:34 -0400 >From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@earthlink.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And GermanDiscTechnology >>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And German DiscTechnology >>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:45:54 +0100 >>>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:23:45 -0400 >>>From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net> >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Canada's 'Avro' Flying Saucer - And German Disc Technology >>>Source: SIGHTINGS >>>http://www.sightings.com/ufo4/canadadisc_u.htm >>>Canada's 'Avro' Flying >>>Saucer - And German >>>Disc Technology >>>By Julian Borger >>>The Guardian >>>9-25-99 >>>It Came From Outer Toronto... >>>Avro Canada is best remembered for the ill-fated Arrow, the >>>supersonic jet fighter shelved by Ottawa in 1959. Now, >>>newly-released CIA documents shed new light on another of the >>>company's dreams - a flying saucer. >>If anyone has read my book - UFO Revelation - theyll notice >>remarkably similar material. >>Borger's second-hand report only barely scratches the surface if >>the Man-Made UFO cover-up. >>In issue#3 of 'BEYOND' I'll be presenting a new and remarkable >>exclusive on my latest research into this (deliberately avoided) >>subject. >>If anyone wants to get some decent information on secret disc >>technologies then I suggest they contact me. There is nothing >>new in Borgers' report to the extent that he even emailed me >>looking for more material! >Mr. Matthews, are you aware of Palmiro Campagna? And his book >titled "The UFO Files"? When you speak of "second hand" reports, >whose is the first hand you speak of? Could yours perhaps be >second hand info also? How remarkable are your "proprietary" >findings? Funnily enough Bill Rose was consulted re; Campagna's book - which I enjoyed reading and which is sitting behind me on my shelves (!). Bill and I have also co-operated re; Man-Made UFOs. I also suspect that there are many more documents within the Canadian files and USAF files. Project Silver Bug was just the start... I made good progress recently when 1500 pages of new material (admittedly some of it is very mundane, some related to the deliberately failed VZ9 'Avrocar') was released to me by the USAF FOIA people at Wright-Patterson. Hope this helps. TM.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Get Real From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:29:47 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:06:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Get Real >Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:57:12 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Get Real >>Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:49:22 -0500 >>From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >>Subject: Get Real >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Last night while my kids were flipping through the channels >>searching for something to watch, they happened across "Close >>Encounters Of The Third Kind" so we watched the last hour of the >>show. Remember the part where a "mother ship" lands, or hovers, >>whatever, and a huge ramp lowers? After a suspenseful pause, >>these people who were abducted 50, 40, 30 years ago or just last >>week come walking down the ramp in a daze. Onlookers are shown >>smiling these great big smiles and one technician comments, "He >>hasn't aged a day. I guess Einstein was right." >>Now, what is wrong with this picture? >>Abductees, taken from their lives years ago, are finally >>returned by their abductors and everyone thinks this is just >>hunky-dorey. These abductees may not have aged a day since they >>were abducted but their lives have been totally disrupted. Most >>of their family and friends, if still alive, have continued to >>age in their absence. They have no jobs, their education would >>be out of date compared to today's standards and they will have >>to adjust to a very changed world. So why is everyone smiling? >>No one knows what was done to these abductees yet these UFOs and >>"aliens" are welcomed with open arms. It doesn't seem to matter >>that citizens of this planet were taken against their wills and >>returned years and years later. To hell with the abductees, we >>have made _contact_! >You are absolutely right. It says its OK to be abducted and its >even better to go willingly. Well, you might just learn >something the gov can use! >I have never understood the UFO faction (Sprinkle for one) who >makes abduction so "friendly". If a human were to kidnap another >human, rape them, experiment on them (war crimes?) wouldn't it >be a punishable offense? Someone please explain the difference. While I agree with you, Terry, that there is no difference, there is a caveat. I hate those who've reduced me to a quivering mass of pitifully frightened jelly. I hate them for nearly ruining and certainly changing my life; and not for the better. Note the word "hate!" Like the old Negro slave song goes, "Nobody knows - the trouble I seen. Nobody knows, but me!" But you asked to point to the difference. And when that subject comes up, I point to what we do to the lesser life forms on our own planet. Think about what we do, when we chase down, sometimes by helicopter or small aircraft, the wild animals of Africa and elsewhere to dart, tranquilize, poke test, take fluid samples and even inseminate on occasion. And we do this all in the name of saving the species which we nearly wiped out. I am not one of those who believe for a moment, that this is necessarily the case with our perceived captors. I am saying that there may be a similarity. And that which separates us from our abductors is the same which separates us from those we claim to minister to in our jungles and plains. Level of evolved intelligence. To our perceived captors, we may be so low down on the sentient pole as to be animals in the field by comparison with their intellects and technologies. Should this be the case (it's a theory which I do not favor, but admit to the possibility), what makes a difference is our intellectual level. It does not permit such invasion. Again, should this be the case, in order for the alien to be righteous, he (she or it) just have to have one hell of a good reason(s). If not, I and people like me, should remain pissed to the gills. Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Get Real From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:45:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:08:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Get Real >Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:49:22 -0500 >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Get Real >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Last night while my kids were flipping through the channels >searching for something to watch, they happened across "Close >Encounters Of The Third Kind" so we watched the last hour of the >show. Remember the part where a "mother ship" lands, or hovers, >whatever, and a huge ramp lowers? After a suspenseful pause, >these people who were abducted 50, 40, 30 years ago or just last >week come walking down the ramp in a daze. Onlookers are shown >smiling these great big smiles and one technician comments, "He >hasn't aged a day. I guess Einstein was right." I'm not even sure that the phrase "Einstein was right" applies here. What the technician is referring to is the so-called "twins paradox (TP). The TP is a thought experiment that imagines a set of twins. One stays on earth while the other travels to a star system some tens of light-years away at a speed close to that of light. Due to a relativistic effect, the twin travelling close to the speed of light experiences time dilation--that is, time passes much more slowly for the travelling twin than it does for the earthbound twin. The travelling twin, however, is not aware of the slowdown in time. When he/she returns to earth, say, 40 years later, the other twin has aged 40 years. However (depending upon the velocity of travel), the returning twin will only have aged four or five years, and will have experienced a journey that, at the personal level, only seems to have lasted this amount of time. The point here is that, at sub light speeds, the travelling twin ages to a degree, but not as fast as the non-travelling twin. Because the travellers have not aged at all, we must assume that the ship was travelling precisely at luminal velocity more or less constantly, which is a whole different ballpark to travelling close to the speed of light--a feat which would require, according to Einstein, infinite energy. Hmmm. However you look at it, it looks like Einstein was wrong if we are to believe the premise of Close Encounters. Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:04:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:10:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:09:26 -0500 >From: Terry Evans <tevans@tranquility.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos <snip> >>>>>>Interestingly, in all the pictures that Ed Walters took at his >>>>>>home, not one neighbor ever reported seeing any objects that Ed >>>>>>Walters photographed. Not one. There again, that does not mean >>>>>>that Ed Walters photographs are not real, but it is interesting >>>>>to note that not one neighbor saw any object that Ed Walters> >>>>>photographed.> >>>>Wrong. the people across the street had a sighting in early >>>>April. <snip> >I am wondering if these are the same people? According to the >recent article in the Pennsacola Independent Weekly, Ms. Blair >interviewed Rex and Carol Salisberry. "An interesting side >note... at the very moment that Walters claimed that the UFO >hovered over his house, a neighbor across the street was in his >yard with two other men, and none of them saw the UFO, or >Walters for that matter." (Referring to the first sighting on >Nov. 11, 1987. The date of the incident to which I referred was early April, 1988.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:03:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:17:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:51:54 -0400 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos >>Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:01:05 -0500 >>Jerry [Clark] >>Thanks for being the voice of reason here. One of the main >>reasons why 'ufology' is so unattractive to mainstream >>scientists is precisely this descent into ad hominems that you >>so rightly abhor. As an amateur astronomer (with a degree in >>astronomy), I am no stranger to controversy. However, it is >>rare, almost unknown, for theoretical disagreements between >>astronomers to degenerate into personal attacks in public >>forums. >>So why does it happen in ufology? >Mr. Brian Straight; >Your contrasting theoretical disagreements between astronomers >and dissent in ufology is highly inappropriate. Perhaps you have >not set aside some time to apply thought to this issue. Is the >field of astronomy brimming with crackpotism and nutcases? Does >the field of astronomy involve claims in which private >investigators, hypnosis and/or polygraph tests become a major >part of investigations, and does astronomy deal with hoaxers and >hucksters, and do the leaders in the astronomical field >frequently and regrettably put profit ahead of truth? I would agree with the above. Clearly, the entry bar into scientific fields is much higher--usually fairly rigorous training on the value of empiricism at the very least. Scientists sometimes do, however, put profit and/or publicity ahead of 'truth' (whatever that is)--Pons and Fleichmann were an unfortunate example of that urge. Their subsequent 'crucifixion' came about not through name calling, but as a result of the failure to repeat their experimental results. <snip> I would agree that your examples indicate that Jerry has certainly raised his hackles, but I would ask you to consider the tone of the posts that provoked these responses - they were pretty direct & personal attacks - and Jerry responded in a personal way to the provokation. In general, however (you examples notwithstanding), I stand by my comments that Jerry has been and continues to be a voice of reason in the field. >No, Brian Straight, it seems that Jerome Clark�s past comments >to his fellow disputants could hardly be seen as an outbreak of >courtesy, nor do his comments reflect an outstanding departure >from the mud-flinging and finger pointing involved with >�ufological dissent� that you would have us believe. Perhaps >your idea of enlightened theoretical dissent is constrained only >to the side you choose to affiliate with. Jerry certainly doesn't need me to defend him - in fact he doesn't know me from a hole in the wall. For the record, I am an open skeptic on the UFO phenomenon. The evidence has not convinced me that we are dealing with anything extraterrestrial here, although I suspect that there may be genuinely as yet unknown phenomena at work in a very small percentage of cases. >Thanks for your time, >Kenny Young And for yours, Brian Straight
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: RPIT - A Reminder From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:12:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:22:48 -0400 Subject: Re: RPIT - A Reminder >From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 05:10:02 EDT >Subject: Re: RPIT - A Reminder [was... Re: The Challenge] >To: updates@globalserve.net >To Neil Morris and List, >Thank you for your long answer to my message of 26 september. > >Let's try to be very brief. > >As I already said, I am perfectly awere of >- the Sunday 6 flight Affidavit of General DuBose, describing a >sealed plastic pouch which he attached himself to the wrist of >Colonel Clark, on his way to Washington ; >- the Tuesday flight of a B-29 from Roswell, as described by >Marcel and Porter, who were on board with carefully wrapped, >very light parcels small like shoe boxes except for a triangle, >all carried by five officers, etc. >What I am talking about is another flight to Fort Worth on >tuesday 8, as described by Du Bose in the controversial >interview published in the Mufon Journal of January 1991. Have >you read it? >He took delivery himself of balloon and target debris in an >unsealed canvas pouch, brought by a B-29. He had it displayed on >the floor of Ramey's office. >Again, I find sad that it was not confirmed by another, recorded >interview at the time. >To discard this part of his testimony, you hav two options, it >seems: >- DuBose was senile at that time. >But his testimony makes a lot of sense to me. >- Jaime Shandera invented that part. >This supposition is about as crazy, because the DuBose testimony >destroys the belief of Shandera and Moore that the real debris >had been displayed. By publishing that he killed his own case ! >Another point: DuBose did not describe the first Tuesday flight >because he was not there: he repeated he never saw the real >debris. >Sorry, but I stick to my analysis. Dear Gildas, I've no doubt the pouch flight _did_ take place, my only query is as to the date it happened and by what means Dubose managed to linked it to a specific day/date, Tuesday July 8th. Trying to pin down an exact day/date to a memory over the space of 40-50 years is no mean feat _unless_ you can pull in a few verifiable, historical "anchors", ie I believe Jesse Marcel in his first interview with Moore said he first got the call from Sheriff Wilcox at lunch on July 7th (Monday), I think most people agree this _must_ be incorrect and is supported by statements made to UP by Wilcox on the 8th, which state Mack reported the find "the day before yesterday" ie Sunday the 6th. You also have the fact that Marcel's story spans 2 nights, which would be impossible to fit into the timeline had Mack reported the find at noon on the 7th. In comments made to James Bond Johnson by Jaime Shandera about the DuBose interviews it seems clear DuBose recalled, intentionaly or otherwise _very_ _little_ of the events, he at first had _no_ recollection whatsoever of JBJ having photographed him and Ramey with the "debris", and it was only _after_ Jaime Shandera supplied him with a set of prints he agreed the photo shoot _did_ take place. Now it's not every day you get your picture taken in your Commanding General's office, and it's even more unusual to have a heap of smelly junk spread across the carpet in your Commanding General's office too!. In my own eye's I would have thought this would have left a far more lasting impression in the memory than that of collecting a canvas pouch from a B29. Yet DuBose agreed to it happening _only_after_ seeing the hard evidence it _did_ happen, his own photograph with Ramey and the "debris". Maybe I read too much into this, but to me I read either yes, a genuin failure of memory, (this _is_ possible after so many years ask JBJ about that<g>) _or_ an attempt to skate around discussing certain aspects of events he was still unwilling to disclose, by being economical _but_not_ untruthful with the facts. It's very easy to block a line of questioning by simply saying "I have no memory of that". As for him saying he never saw the actual debris?, the 6.17pm FBI teletype _does_ state debris from RAAF _was_ examined at FWAAF, Maj Kirton states they discussed it with Wright Field and even though it at first sight it resembled "balloon debris" something rang alarm bells and it _was_ being forwarded by special flight to Wright Field. All this was _very_ important stuff, McMullen himself was involved, _and_ DuBose was acting as the communications liason with McMullen, the FWAAF IO Office seemed to know all about what was going on so as 3rd in command at FWAAF, Ramey's Chief of Staff _and_ reporting to McMullen, can we believe DuBose missed out on _all_ the action??. I don't see how. >BTW, the second tuesday flight could come from any place where >there was balloon debris available. > Wrecked MOGUL's aplenty on the 8th were over at Alamagordo so there was no shortage of raw material. >Also, a good reason _not_ to bring it in the same plane as the >real debris was to avoid giving ideas to some smart member >of >the crew. But if it was _only_ "balloon" debris on that flight why have it accompanied by Marcel and Jennings?. Effect?, and if so, for whom?. >Gildas Bourdais > Neil. -- * * * * * * * * Neil Morris. /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\ Dept of Physics. 1 1 Univ of Manchester 0 0 Schuster Labs. 1 Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES 1 Brunswick St. 0 0 Manchester. 1 1 UK. \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/ G8KOQ E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk Roswell and Alien Autopsy Archive->http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ Dave Willetts Home Page-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/ Mike Sterling Home Page-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/mike-s/ Tim Morgan Home Page -> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/tim-m/ * * * * * * * *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Processed MGS Data - Maybe The 'Face' _Is_ From: Kurt Jonach <ewarrior@scruznet.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:06:43 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:25:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Processed MGS Data - Maybe The 'Face' _Is_ >From: Steven J. Dunn <SDunn@logicon.com> >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>, >Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:33:13 -0700 >Subject: Processed MGS Data - Maybe The 'Face' _Is_ Steven J. Dunn wrote: >In April 1998, NASA released imaged of the Cydonia region and >the "face on Mars" that looked to most, including this humble >correspondent, to be a very natural formation. The "face" was >dead. >However, a search of the NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS) >Astronomy Abstract Service has found an article/presentation, >dated December 1998, that is in variance with the above >conclusion. >"The 'Face on Mars' at Cydonia: Natural or Artificial" by T. >Van Flandern of Meta Research, given in American Astronomical >Society, DPS meeting #30, #55.P31. ... >The abstract says, in part: >"New, high-resolution images taken by the Mars Global Surveyor >(MGS) spacecraft have now been processed. Using height >information from Viking imagery, MGS photos can be >ortho-rectified to show the view as it would have appeared from >overhead - quite different from the view actually seen by the >spacecraft as it passed far to the west, especially in raw, >unprocessed imagery. UFO UpDates' Mark Cashman recently commented on the ortho-rectified Face. Here's what he said: [Cashman] The problem with what I have read in this research is that the work is not fully or properly referenced back to known Martian geology, to image processing limitations, or to statistics. For instance, claims of symmetry, relationships between features, etc. must be referenced against control areas which are unusual in appearance but not suggestive of artificiality to determine whether claimed relationships are due to chance. One must keep in mind the importance of studies like Jacques Vallee's work on chance as an explanation for Michel's orthoteny. In addition, studies to compare artificial features with the continuum of more and less similar features must also be done, to ensure that these special features are not just the tail ends of the distribution curve. Carlotto's orthotrectification is no substitute for these kinds of studies. This is especially important with regard to anything claimed to look like a face, given the human propensity - remarked on first so long ago by DaVinci - to see patterns, especially facial patterns, in noisy fractal data. [eWarrior] Aren't you and Carlotto effectively engaged in a self-correcting scientific dialog? [Cashman] Yes. And that's a good thing... >One will note that the AAS is definitely not an organization >with UFO or "new age" affiliations. Oops! Sorry, read "Face on the Fringe" http://www.electricwarrior.com/cydonut/Cydonut2.htm -eWarrior [Kurt Jonach]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1999 > Sep > Sep 30 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 23 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:18:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:39:07 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 23 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 4, Number 23 September 30, 1999 Editor: Joseph Trainor MARS CLIMATE ORBITER DISAPPEARS On Thursday, September 23, 1999, at 5:05 a.m., scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California were monitoring the Mars Climate Observer (MCO) as it began its final approach into orbit around Mars. The Mars Climate Observer was launched from Earth on December 11, 1998. NASA hoped that the $125 million spacecraft "would return the most detailed information yet about Mars' climate and atmospheric conditions." The MCO passed behind Mars, ready to begin a 17-minute engine burn maneuver that would slow its speed and drop it into a Martian orbit. But, at the moment the spacecraft should have emerged from nehind Mars, JPL sent a radio signal and received nothing by way of a response. "We're not quite sure what's happening," said project manager Richard Cook after the MCO failed to answer the signal. "We don't know what specifically happened to the spacecraft," Cook added, "We believe it came in at a lower altitude." The Mars Climate Orbiter "was last heard from about 5:05 a.m. Thursday after it fired its engine to slow down as it neared Mars. All systems were fine as it slipped behind the planet and out of radio range from Earth." "Controllers thought the spacecraft was on a course to fly no lower than 87 miles (149 kilometers) above the surface on the far side of Mars. That would be low enough to be captured by Martian gravity but high enough to avoid damage from atmospheric friction." "But the spacecraft failed to reappear on the other side of Mars about 20 minutes later when it would have been back in radio range." "Controllers checked their calculations and found that the spacecraft had been on a (flight) path just 37 miles (59 kilometers) above the surface--so close to Mars that atmospheric friction probably burned or shattered it, Cook said." "'We're never had an error like this in the spacecraft business that I could recall,' says Lou Friedman, executive director of the non-profit Planetary Society in Pasadena. 'This is unprecedented, and we'll learn a lot from it.'" "The loss will not hurt Martian exploration in the long run, said Carl Pilcher, NASA's chief of solar systems exploration. The agency plans at least one Mars mission every two years for at least a decade. The same type of instruments aboard Climate Orbiter can be flown on missions planned in 2006 or 2007." On Saturday, September 25, 1999, at 3 p.m., NASA ended its radio search for the missing spacecraft. The agency had been using the three 70-meter (230-foot) diameter dish antennae of their Deep Space Network in the hopes of re-acquiring a radio signal from the MCO. For now, the Mars Climate Orbiter seems to have met the same dismal fate of the Mars Observer in 1993 and the Pathfinder/Sojourner mission of 1997. (See USA Today for Friday, September 24, 1999, page 6A, "Bad math may have lost spacecraft" by Paul Hovenstern.) (Editor's Comment: The loss of the Mars Climate Observer wasn't the only unusual event happening in space last week. Read on...) THREE NEW "MOONS" SEEN IN ORBIT AROUND URANUS Astronomers in Hawaii last week announced the discovery of "three new, distinct, weirdly- orbiting moons around Uranus, bringing the planet's satellite total to 21, the most in our solar system." "The discovery of these irregular satellites is very important because it seems that Uranus is not an oddball but rather is like Neptune, Saturn and Jupiter," Matthew Hormar of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics said in a statement Monday," September 21, 1999. "If these new moons are confirmed, and added to the two other irregular satellits observed in 1997, Uranus would have 16 regular and 5 irregular moons, the most of any known planet." "Irregular satellits do not follow the near-circular orbit of most satellites, including (Luna) Earth's Moon." Instead these irregular moons follow "highly elliptical orbits or follow paths that are severely tipped to the plane of the planet's equator." (See the Reuters report for September 22, 1999. Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for forwarding this news story.) (Editor's Comment: Curious how these three "weirdly-orbiting moons" were missed by both Voyager spacecraft during their Uranus flybys in the 1980s. It'll be interesting to see if their presence is confirmed by other astronomers. On the other hand, if these large objects in orbit around Uranus are the "saucer carriers" of an alien task force, then maybe we have an answer to the loss of the Mars Climate Observer and the spectacular recent surge in UFO sightings.) MYSTERIOUS SKY FLASH BAFFLES ASTRONOMERS "Astronomers worldwide are tracking down a mysterious and unusual burst of energy that exploded like a flash bulb in the sky last week, lingered several hours and disappeared." "The sudden flash turned a star too dim to see except with a good telescope into one almost visible to the naked eye. But the outburst really wowed astronomers in invisible wavelengths-- X-ray, gamma ray and radio--when it flashed more than 120 times stronger than normal, to become briefly the brightest object in the sky." "Messages flashed through cyberspace as astronomers buzzed about something very peculiar going on." "''It's become kind of a global detective story,' said American University astronomer Richard Berendzen." "On Sept. 15, as a storm approached in Australia, Rod Stubbings, as amateur astronomer, snatched a glance at a star that is known to flicker a bit in the southern constellation Sagittarius." "'Wow! This is some outburst,' Stubbings recalled via email. 'I closed up the observatory, ran inside and reported the outburst.'" "Then the worldwide hunt started. Researchers scoured the spectrum from long-range radio waves to very short wave X-rays and gamma rays. Astronomers at the Massachusetts Institude of Technology diverted a NASA X-ray telescope to take a look." "'This one came screaming out of nowhere at us,' said MIT rsearcher Donald Smith." "'Something really unusual is going on,' said astronomer Bob Hjellming at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory in New Mexico. 'It's gotten odder and odder as we've gotten pieces of data on it.'" "Gamma-ray astronomers started an independent investigation. They were floored by what they saw." "'It's kind of like you were sitting out on your porch seeing a rabbit going hopping across and then another and then another and then a 500-pound gorilla is going across. And you're sitting there saying, 'Did this really happen?'' said Mike McCullough, a gamma-ray scientist at the University Space Research Association in Huntsville, Alabama." (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for September 26, 1999, page 16A, "Astronomers still hunting for flash's source.") (Editor's Comment: I have to ask it. Did this mysterious flash have anything to do with the disappearance of the Mars Climate Observer?) TWO UFO SIGHTINGS REPORTED IN ITALY On Friday, September 17, 1999, residents of the city of Ferrara in northern Italy spotted "an object with a very long luminous tail, moving at an extremely high velocity.." Witnesses said the OVNI (Italian acronym for UFO) "had a luminosity that was five times the size of Jupiter's. The object was a silver-blue color and was seen by 10 witnesses." Ferrara is 75 kilometers (45 miles) northeast of Bologna. On Sunday, September 19, 1999, at 10 p.m., municipal police in Viterbo received dozens of telephone calls reporting "an OVNI approaching Tuscia and being a white light surrounded by multi-colored lights." "'It was very speedy,' said all of the witnesses." The UFO "caused much apprehension and alarm among the populace." Viterbo is a city located about 55 miles (88 kilometers) north of Rome. (See the Italian newspaper Il Corriere di Viterbo for September 20, 1999. Grazie a Alfredo Lissoni e Giuseppe Monticelli di Centro Ufologici Nazionale (CUN) d'Italia per questo rapporto.) PILOT SPOTS TRIANGULAR UFO NEAR DUBUQUE, IOWA On Monday, August 23, 1999, at 11:20 p.m., an air freight pilot flying a twin-engine Beech Baron BE-58 at an altitude of 5,500 feet Mean Sea Level (MSL) when he caught sight of a dark triangular UFO. The aerial encounter took place just north of Dubuque, Iowa (population 57,546), a city on Highway 20 approximately 203 miles (324 kilometers) northeast of Des Moines. The pilot, who declined to be identified, reported, "During a moon rise in the eastern sky at 11:20 p.m., an object caught my attention, moving at an unusually high rate of speed. As I looked upward and focused on the object, I made out a dark blue or almost black trianglular craft flying grid patterns in a north-to-south and east- to-west pattern." "I noticed the craft was leaving behind its travel path a gray misty contrail, which seemed to be falling into small puffy clouds between myself and the craft." He estimated that the triangular UFO was flying at an altitude of about 10,500 feet MSL. "When the Flying Triangle made a change of direction, it was done very abruptly. Ninety-degree turns were made with no gradual change of direction. They were instantaneous. I estimated its rate of speed to be 500 to 800 knots, nearly ten times that of my rate of speed. The craft had no lights. The only way I could see it was by the reflection on its surface of the nearly full moon." "After flying for an additional 12 minutes, I noticed the contrails descending or falling past my aircraft. They almost looked like snowflakes, but the air temperature (outside the plane) was only 50 degrees Fahrenheit." Passing through the contrail, the pilot said his lungs "began to feel inflamed and irritated. I also felt a burning sensation and had to keep my breathing rate low at the time." (Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for forwarding this report.) MORE UFOs SIGHTED IN DANDRIDGE, TENNESSEE On Saturday, September 25, 1999, at 9:45 p.m., six residents of Dandridge, Tennessee (population 1,540), a small mountain town 23 miles (36 kilometers) northeast of Knoxville, gathered to do some skywatching. The group included three couples--Patricia and David G., Elizabeth and Rex C. and Angela and Colin T., all of Dandridge, who were standing by with binoculars, two telescopes and a videocamera set upon a tripod. From 9:45 p.m. to 12:45 a.m., the six people "watched this mysterious light in the northeastern sky about 20 to 35 degrees above the horizon for three hours." "Through the telescopes, we could see three distant lights rotating, pulsating and flashing," Patricia G. reported, "They were white, orange-red and green. The lights would move and flash and continue right out of range of the telescope lens. The telescopes were not moved or touched." "Every so often, another red flash could be seen 'below' the light, with arms that extended two inches below the original," she added. Patricia reported that UFOs have been seen "off and on" in the Dandridge area all summer. (Email Interview) FAST-FLYING UFOs SEEN IN BRITISH COLUMBIA On Sunday, September 19, 1999, at 10:36 a.m., a resident of North Vancouver, British Columbia, Cnada (population 38,436) reported seeing "eight or nine brightly shining objects, some with tails, extremely high in the sky over North Vancouver, heading towards Horseshoe Bay." Later the same day, at 9:10 p.m., "a resident of Nanaimo, B.C. observed an object heading north from the 2 o'clock to the 10 o'clock position, a 40-degree angular sweep across eight miles east to west at approximately an altitude far above 10,000 feet (3,000 meters)" The UFO was described as "whitish with three lights in a triangle.. There was one object and it happened in five seconds." Nanaimo, B.C. (population 60,129) is a port city on the eastern shore of Vancouver Island about 35 miles (56 kilometers) west of Vancouver city via ferry. (Many thanks to Donald Ledger for this report.) (Editor's Comment: Eight miles in five seconds works out to an airspeed of 5,760 miles per hour.) UFOs SPOTTED IN AUSTRALIA On Sunday, September 19, 1999, at 8:30 p.m., Christen S. was walking her dog in her hometown of Boronia, Victoria state, Australia when she noticed something unusual in the sky. "I had just seen three bright lights in the sky," Christen told Diane Harrison of the Australian UFO Research Network. "About the size of a (Australian) five-cent piece. A dull orange star-like object. At first I thought they were stars, but they moved in a V formation. When they went away, they formed a straight line and faded off in the distance." On Wednesday, September 22, 1999, at 8:30 p.m., Fabian T. and some friends were in Musgrave, Bayswater, Vic. "when a guy yelled to me to have a look at these three strange lights in the sky.." "They were big. They just hung in the sky," Fabrian reported, "One moved away from the other. They did this for about four or five minutes. Then they formed a V formation and faded out one at a time." "I'll tell you, we were all scared. It was as though it was watching us. I got to my car and took off home. And I tell you, I don't scare easily." (Many thanks to Diane Harrison of Australian UFO Research Network for these reports.) BRITISH POLICEMAN SEES A UFO IN SOMERSET, UK On Friday, September 10, 1999, Martin, a UK policeman, and his wife were in Weston Zoyland, Somerset, UK when they spotted a bright UFO in the sky. "My wife and I observed a bright light much larger than a star and moving at a very rapid speed to 120 degrees from north from 85 degrees from north. We were heading in an easterly direction from our home in Weston Zoyland at 0500 hours (5 a.m. UK time--J.T.)" "The object suddenly became stationary for about 15 minutes, during which time I observed it through my telescope. It appeared to have a spherical underside, but the top was not spherical. One side had a faint red glow. After this period of time, it moved in a direct line at a great speed and eventually disappeared." (Many thanks to John Hayes for this news story.) (Note from John Hayes: If anyone has more information on this story please send details to Masinaigan@aol.com and Dave ufo@ukufonw.co.uk from the United Kingdom UFO Network who sent me the original report. MORE CROP CIRCLES APPEAR IN MIDALE More crop circles appeared in the small town of Midale, Saskatchewan last week, making it the focus of Canada's current crop circle flap. Midale (population 497) is on Provincial Highway 39 about 98 miles (157 kilometers) southeast of Regina. On Monday, September 14, 1999, a pilot spotted "a formation of (crop) circles just east of Midale," according to reporter Sherri Tessier, "One circle is a simple large ring complex 80 feet (24.24 meters) to 90 feet (27.27 meters) in diametre. Another is a smaller circle with two surrounding rings, about 50 feet (15.15 meters) in diametre." On Tuesday, September 28, 1999, another crop circle formation was spotted from the air by pilot John Erickson and researcher Nancy Talbott. The crop circle was found "four miles east and one mile north of Midale" and consisted of "a large 50-foot (15.15 meter) to 60-foot (18.18 meter) circle" in a wheat field "with a circle of standing wheat about three feet across." A crop circle formation was also found in Canada's Alberta province recently. On Saturday, September 4, 1999, farmer Carl Kuhn was combining his field of durum wheat in Acadia Valley, Alberta, a small town on Provincial Highway 41 approximately 115 miles (184 kilometers) north of Medicine Hat, when he spotted a crop circle. Kuhn reported that the circles "were in a straight line about 10 feet (3 meters) apart. The first two were about 30 feet (9 meters) in diametre, the largest on the right end is about 60 feet (18.18 meters) in diametre. All have a counterclockwise lay." According to Paul Anderson of Circles Phenomenon Research-Canada, "In the largest circle there are series of single standing stalks spaced about every two or three square feet., which show no signs of every having been touched or flattened down," adding that Kuhn reported "no entry pathways" near the circles within the wheat field. (Many thanks to Paul Anderson of CPR-Canada for these reports.) BLACK HELICOPTER SEEN IN EAST SUSSEX On Tuesday, September 21, 1999, at 6:47 p.m., the witness, who was visiting his parents' home in East Sussex, about 60 miles (96 kilometers) south of London, was in the kitchen, "when all of a sudden, a high-pitched tone came from nowhere. I raced into the garden but couldn't see anything. About ten seconds later, it faded, only to be replaced by roar of a very low, unmrked, chunky black helicopter circling around the small block of homes where my parents live." "It just hovered about 200 to 225 feet above us in the garden. I ran and grabbed a disposable camera and took nine pics (photographs). It stayed above us for about nine minutes, then took off down the road into the sunset." "Think I'll have that cup of tea now." (Many thanks to witness Steve B. and John Hayes for this report.) from the UFO Files... 1792: STRANGE MYSTERIES IN AUGUSTA, KENTUCKY What do three of the USA's most famous celebrities--singer Rosemary Clooney, 71, TV and movie actor George Clooney, 38, and the new Miss America for the year 2000, Heather Renee French, 24, have in common? They all hail from Augusta, Kentucky (population 2,000), a town on the south bank of the Ohio River on Highway 8 about 63 miles (100 kilometers) north of Lexington. The small riverfront town has a past full of strange mysteries. Let's start with the surprising discovery of some weird bones in Augusta back in 1792. According to author Lewis Collins, an early settler, Gen. John Payne, made a strange discovery while building his house along the Ohio River "The bottom on which Augusta is situated is a large burying ground of the ancients...They have been found in great numbers, and of all sizes, everywhere between the mouths of Bracken and Locust Creeks, a distance of about a mile and a half. From the cellar under my (Payne's) dwelling, 60 by 70 feet, over a hundred and ten skeletons were taken. I measured them by skulls, and there might have been more, whose skulls had crumbled into dust...The skeletons were of all sizes, from seven feet to infant. David Kilgour (who was a tall and very large man) passed our village at the time I was excavating my cellar , and we took him down and applied a thigh bone to his. The man, if well-proportioned, must have been 10 to 12 inches taller than Kilgour, and the lower jaw bone would slip on over his, skin and all. Who were they? How came their bones here?" "When I was in the army, I inquired of old Crane, a Wyandot (Huron Indian--J.T.) and of Anglerson, a Delaware (proper name Lenni Lenape--J.T.), both intelligent old chiefs, and they could give me no information in reference to these remains of antiquity. Some of the largest trees of the forest were growing over the remains when the land was cleared in 1792." (See Historical Sketches of Kentucky by Lewis Collins, Maysville, Ky. 1847, page 205.) On December 21, 1806, the town of Augusta had a distinguished--some might say infamous-- visitor. None other than Harman Blennerhassett, the foremost Illuminatus of the early USA. Blennerhassett was born on October 8, 1764 in Hampshire, UK. He attended Westminster School in London and Trinity College in Dublin, graduating in 1790. Next Blennerhassett turned up in Paris, part of the entourage around Jean-Baptiste Val-du-Grace, a Belgian nobleman better known as Anacharsis Cloots, self-styled "Secretary-General of the Human Race." (In case you're wondering where the UN title came from--J.T.) With a letter of introduction from Cloots, Blennerhassett made his way to Germany and met Adam Weishaupt, the Big Enchilada of the Order of the Illuminati, and was admitted to the order, rising to the level of Illuminatus Magus. A couple of years later, Blennerhassett turned up in the UK's Channel Islands. On the isle of Jersey, he met and married Adeline Agnew (no relation to Spiro--J.T.), the beautiful daughter of a former lieutenant governor of New York state. He didn't stay long in New York City, however. Blennerhassett purchased an island in the Ohio River and built his "castle," a luxurious house where he indulged his interests in chemistry, astronomy, magnetic therapy, astrology and occultism. He also made a new friend--Aaron Burr, the vice president of the USA. To make a long story short, Blennerhassett and Burr engaged in a conspiracy to unseat then-President Thomas Jefferson. The plot was discovered by Army officers loyal to Jefferson, and the Ohio militia attacked Blennerhassett's secret camp at Marietta on December 19, 1806. Blennerhassett fled with about 50 of his fellow initiates, leaving his wife, his sons and the rest of his guerrilla troops behind. But instead of fleeing straight down the Ohio River to the Mississippi, Blennerhassett made his still-unexplained side trip to Augusta, Ky., arriving on the day of the solstice. After the Burr conspiracy was exposed, Blennerhassett left the USA and returned to the Channel Islands, settling on Guernsey, where he died on February 1, 1831 His wife Adeline remained in the USA and died in New York City in 1842, after unsuccessfully suing the U.S. government for damages to her island mansion. (See The Great American Rascal: The Turbulent Life of Aaron Burr by Philip Vail, Hawthorn Books, New York, NY 1973, pages 138 and 139. See also Life of Harman Blennerhassett by William H. Safford, Cincinnati, Ohio, 1853.) (Editor's Comment: I visited the Payne House in Augusta in September 1979, and the owner let me explore the old cellar where those unusual human bones were found. I wrote a story about it, but it didn't sell. And then Heather French of Augusta, Ky. became the new Miss America. Which just goes to show that if you hold onto your notes long enough, you can write about anything.) We'll be back next week with more UFO news from around the planet, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1999, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/