UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Mar

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Mar 2000

  Mar 1:

   Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Roger Evans [53]
   Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again! - Serge Salvaille [62]
   Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again! - GT McCoy [46]
   Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again! - Nick Balaskas [73]
   Respond to O'Reilly's UFO Farce - Joe Murgia [148]
   Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again! - Michel M. Deschamps [19]
   Errol Please Post... This Is Not A Joke - Jim Mortellaro [112]
   Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again! - John Velez [70]
   Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Jim Mortellaro [58]
   Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Kelly McGillis [35]
   NIDS Responds to Klass-ic Stupidity - National Institute for Discovery
   Science [117]
   Satellite Decay Cross References - Todd Lemire [33]
   Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO - Royce J. Myers III [51]
   Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Roger Evans [76]
   Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again! - Chris Rutkowski [23]
   Re: Errol Please Post... This Is Not A Joke - Steven Kaeser [26]
   The Pelican Writes... - John Rimmer [163]
   Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO - Kelly [28]

  Mar 2:

   Re: Errol Please Post... This Is Not A Joke - Jim Mortellaro [41]
   SPACE_LINK WEB_PAGE Gone - Michael Christol [13]
   Need Copy of McCain on Fox - Stephen Bassett [12]
   Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO - Jim Mortellaro [71]
   Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again! - John [123]
   Re: The Pelican Writes... - Bruce Maccabee [81]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 9 - John Hayes [594]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8 - Donald Ledger [99]
   Remove From UFO UpDates List - Michael Christol [17]

  Mar 3:

   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8 - GT McCoy [28]
   'The O'Reilly Factor' Tries Again - Kenny Young [10]

  Mar 4:

   Reed Hoax - Royce J. Myers III [12]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #341 - Alfred Lehmberg [91]
   Re: UFOs, Or A Light Show? - Jim Mortellaro [172]
   The MUFON Ontario Website - UFO UpDates - Toronto [4]
   Filer's Files #09 -- 2000 - George A. File [447]
   Nick Pope's Weird World - Feb 2000 - Georgina Bruni [139]

  Mar 1:

   Secret Deep Space Probes? - Nick Balaskas [42]

  Mar 5:

   Re: Reed Hoax - Robert Gates [80]
   Giant Rock Sheds Slice - UFO UpDates - Toronto [69]
   UK 'Changing Paradigms - Vision Unlimited' - Philip Mantle [7]
   UFOs in China and Japan - Philip Mantle [7]
   Re: UFOs in China and Japan - Giuliano-Jimmy-Marinkovicc [73]
   Re: - Thiago [23]
   Tonight on 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Mike Woods & - EBK [23]

  Mar 6:

   MP News: Weekly Briefing 3.6.00 - Paul Anderson [88]
   Malaysian UFO Report - Muzzafar Zabidin [36]
   Supposed Time-Anomalies - Karoline Leach [26]
   Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies - Victor J. Kean [23]
   Majestic 12 Photographs - Scott Hale [10]

  Mar 7:

   Malaysia Update - Kenny Young [36]
   Feb. 29th Ohio UFO Reported To/Seen By Law - Kenny Young [112]
   'Sincere Artwork' Is Out There - Yerba Buena UFO - Todd Lemire [11]
   Nick Pope's Weird World - March Issue - Georgina Bruni [131]

  Mar 8:

   Reed & Raith's 'Alien' - Nothing Like A Good Laugh - Royce J. Myers III
   [48]
   Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Todd Lemire [28]
   Re: Reed & Raith's 'Alien' - Nothing Like A Good - Donnie Shevlin [36]
   Re: Reed & Raith's 'Alien' - Nothing Like A Good - GT McCoy [78]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Larry Hatch [30]
   Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies - Karoline Leach [52]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8 - Bruno Mancusi [109]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Brian Cuthbertson [32]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Tim Haley [32]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8 - Ron Cecchini [24]

  Mar 9:

   Dennis Balthazer On UK TV - John Hayes [20]
   UFO Activity After Base Closures - Michel M. Deschamps [9]
   Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies - Lesley Cluff [59]
   Dust Bunny Hunt - Update - John [18]
   APRO Bulletins Wanted For Trade - Roderick B. Dyke [53]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 10 - John Hayes [501]
   Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies - Tim Haley [21]
   Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures - Victor J.Kean [13]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Donald Ledger [41]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Todd Lemire [63]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Ignatius Graffeo [8]
   Sighting Report OZ File 27.03.2000 - Diane Harrison [68]
   Ron Knight - ex-CFGM-AM, Richmond Hill, Ontario - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [7]
   NASA: Space Shuttle Processing Report Available - NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
   [63]

  Mar 10:

   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Larry Hatch [42]
   TMP News: TMP/UFO*BC 'Strange Days' Presentation - Paul Anderson [55]
   Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures - Michel M. Deschamps [20]
   PRG Press Release - 3/10/00 - Stephen G. Bassett [66]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Donald Ledger [46]
   NASA UFO Footage Release - Giuliano 'Jimmy' Marinkovic [40]

  Mar 11:

   Re: Reed Hoax - Tim Haley [36]
   Latest UFO Info + New Bigfoot Recordings - Kenny Young [18]
   Jan Aldrich To Quit? - Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto [65]
   UFO Over Lima, Peru - Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [42]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Todd Lemire [32]
   Re: Reed Hoax - Larry Hatch [18]
   Re: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00 - Serge Salvaille [48]
   Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies - Karoline Leach [53]
   Re: Jan Aldrich To Quit? - Robert Gates [38]
   Flare Excerise Over Phoenix? - Stefan Duncan [8]
   Re: Reed Hoax - Robert Gates [72]
   Re: Time Anomalies - Michael J. Woods [46]

  Mar 12:

   Re: Nick Pope's Weird World - March Issue - royjhale [38]
   Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies - Roy J Hale [13]
   UFO Desk 3.13.00 - Paul Williams [18]
   Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures - Victor J.Kean [24]
   Jan Aldrich Not To Quit! - UFO UpDates - Toronto [34]
   UFO Sighting OZ Files - 02.2000 - Diane Harrison [146]
   Re: Jan Aldrich To Quit? - John W. Auchettl Praufo@aol.com [47]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Larry Hatch [33]
   Re: Jan Aldrich To Quit? - Jim Mortellaro [67]
   D E S T I N A T I O N: S P A C E Preview - Yvonne Hedenland [28]
   Re: Time Anomalies - Michael J. Woods [13]

  Mar 13:

   Re: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00 - Lan Fleming [21]
   Filer's Files #10 -- 2000 - George A. Filer [542]
   Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures - Michel M. Deschamps [35]
   NUFORA - Updates - Tim Mathews [10]
   Re: Reed Hoax - Royce J. Myers III [77]
   Re: Jan Aldrich Not To Quit! - Marty [19]
   Re: Jan Aldrich Not To Quit! - Sue Strickland [40]
   Disney's Alien Encounter - Terry Blanton [21]
   'The Gate' Magazine? - Andy Roberts [9]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Chuck Sutton [27]
   Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies - Ron Cecchini [15]
   Hudson Valley Update? - William Sawers [13]

  Mar 14:

   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Robert Gates [50]
   Dan Goldin on CNN's 'Pinnacle' - Sue Kovios [34]
   TMP News: Weekly Briefing 3.14.00 - Paul Anderson [63]
   Sloppy Management Blamed For Mars Orbiter Loss - Nick Balaskas [15]
   Ohio Man Reports 'Flying Saucers,' Leaps To Death - Kenny Young [96]
   Strange Days... Indeed Archive - UFO UpDates - Toronto [25]

  Mar 15:

   Is CNN Editing Reality? - Lan Fleming [42]
   Hoagland on Art Bell - 3-15-00 - Ron Cecchini [22]
   Reed Hoax & The Laughlin UFO Congress - Gildas Bourdais [43]
   Test - UFO UpDates - Toronto [1]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Kathy Hotchner [44]
   Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies - Lesley Cluff [38]
   Re: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00 - Larry Hatch [37]
   Re: Hudson Valley Update? - Ron Cecchini [56]
   Re: Reed Hoax - James S Mortellaro [71]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Bruce Maccabee [54]
   Re: Water on Mars? - Tim Haley [26]
   Re: Is CNN Editing Reality? - Henny van der Pluijm [18]
   New Research Casts Doubts On False Memory Syndrome - Henny van der
   Pluijm [52]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Donald Ledger [25]
   Re: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00 - Lan Fleming [25]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Donald Ledger [43]
   Strange Blaze Puzzles Cops - Kenny Young [47]
   Re: Hudson Valley Update? - Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [41]
   Re: Water on Mars? - Michel M. Deschamps [41]
   Philip Going To Florida - Steven L. Wilson Sr [19]

  Mar 16:

   The NASA/Disney Connection - Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net [448]
   AAS - Life on Mars? - Steven L. Wilson, Sr [118]
   Reports Critical of NASA's Approach - Steven L. Wilson, Sr [70]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Robert Gates [57]
   Re: Hoagland on Art Bell - 3-15-00 - Dave Bowden [42]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - GT McCoy [41]
   Re: Ohio Man Reports 'Flying Saucers', Leaps To - Todd Lemire [72]
   Rumors Link Meteor Sighting & Brush Fire - Todd Lemire [9]
   Re: The UFO/Disney Connection - Bruce Maccabee [125]

  Mar 17:

   The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares! - UFO UpDates - Toronto [35]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - Donald Ledger [57]
   Yukon Meteor Event Not A UFO - Nick Balaskas [97]
   Re: Rumors Link Meteor Sighting & Brush Fire - Stan Friedman [22]
   Re: The UFO/Disney Connection - Stan Friedman [59]
   Re: The UFO/Disney Connection - Dan Geib [26]
   Re: Reed Hoax - Gildas Bourdais [43]

  Mar 18:

   NUFORA? - Roy J Hale [18]
   NASA Pulls Back From Mars - Steven L. Wilson, Sr [41]
   Re: The UFO/Disney Connection - Steven Kaeser [27]
   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs - GT McCoy [83]
   Absence - Sean Jones [13]
   'A New Day For UFO Research'? - Blair Cummins [144]
   Shadowcraft: UFOs, Spy Planes, or Something Else? - Blair Cummins [150]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares! - Patrick Bailey [36]
   Re: The UFO/Disney Connection - Bruce Maccabee [19]
   Re: NUFORA? - Tim Haley [38]
   Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars - Tim Haley [31]
   Re: Is CNN Editing Reality? - Lan Fleming [37]
   Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars - Lan Fleming [20]
   We're Probably Not Alone - Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [72]

  Mar 16:

   Re: Philip Going To Florida - Jim Suchocki [27]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 11 - John Hayes [518]

  Mar 19:

   Florida Today on Cydonia, Mission To Mars - Lan Fleming [4]
   Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars - James S Mortellaro [67]
   Disk Shoots Object at Indiana UFO Researcher - Steven L. Wilson Sr [32]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares! - Tim D. Brigham [77]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares! - Paul Wittry [13]
   Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars - Steven W. Kaeser [30]
   Re: Is CNN Editing Reality? - Larry Hatch [58]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares! - GT McCoy [53]
   Tonight on 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Grant Cameron - EBK [50]
   Re: Water on Mars? - Mark Cashman [49]
   Have We Missed Signs Of Life On Mars? - Steven L. Wilson, Sr [65]
   Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars - Tim Haley [60]

  Mar 20:

   Interstellar Travel Possible? - Steven L. Wilson [62]
   Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars - Lan Fleming [36]
   Re: Water on Mars? - Lan Fleming [44]
   Re: Water on Mars? - Tim Haley [82]
   Re: Is CNN Editing Reality? - Lan Fleming [21]
   Re: Water on Mars? - Michel M. Deschamps [56]
   Disney's Alien Encounter Show - UFO UpDates - Toronto [220]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares! - Bruce Maccabee [14]
   Re: Dust Bunny Hunt - John Velez [63]
   DESTINATION: SPACE Chat with Carlotto & Nerbun - Yvonne_Hedenland [32]
   Implant Technology - Terry Blanton [4]
   Re: Dust Bunny Hunt - John Velez [28]
   Cheaper UFO-Like Satellite Substitutes? - Nick Balaskas [27]

  Mar 21:

   Re: Cheaper UFO-Like Satellite Substitutes? - Larry Hatch [39]
   Re: Implant Technology - John Velez [39]
   Extraterrestrial Gases Found In Buckyballs On Earth - Nick Balaskas
   [123]
   P3N: DoD Search A Sham Declares UFO Group - Blair Cummins [56]

  Mar 22:

   Re: Implant Technology - Bruce Maccabee [9]
   Re: Cheaper UFO-Like Satellite Substitutes? - GT McCoy [47]
   Re: Implant Technology - Robert Gates [26]
   Re: MGS May Overfly The 'Tholus' - Lan Fleming [35]
   Re: Implant Technology - Donnie Shevlin [50]
   Filer's Files #11 -- 2000 - George A. File [496]
   FUFOR Web Site - Steven Kaeser [24]
   C-E: And Now, 'The Rest Of The Story' - Francis Ridge [10]

  Mar 21:

   Re: C-E: And Now, 'The Rest Of The Story - Jsmortell@aol.com [42]
   Re: FUFOR Web Site - Tim D. Brigham [33]
   Re: Missoulian Claims UFO Sighting During WWII - Blair Cummins [51]
   Re: Interstellar Travel Possible? - Josh Goldstein [50]
   Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article - James Oberg [131]
   Letter to NASA Administrator Goldin - Lan Fleming [53]

  Mar 22:

   Re: Hudson Valley Update? - William Sawers [26]
   Re: FUFOR Web Site - Steven W. Kaeser [23]
   Re: Implant Technology - Sharon Kardol [17]
   Re: Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article - Ron Cecchini [14]
   Nibiru - A New Member Of Our Solar System? - Nick Balaskas [123]

  Mar 23:

   Re: Reed Hoax - Robert Gates [67]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 12 - John Hayes [542]
   Re: FUFOR Web Site - John Hayes [42]
   Re: FUFOR Web Site - Steven Kaeser [29]

  Mar 24:

   Re: Reed Hoax - Royce J. Myers III [37]
   Re: Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article - Jim Mortellaro [55]
   Oberg - NASA Fights Back - Nick Balaskas [55]
   Re: Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article - Roger R. Prokic [23]

  Mar 22:

   NASA's Response To Oberg's Mars Polar Lander Story -
   NASANews@hq.nasa.gov [61]

  Mar 25:

   Jan 5 Illinoisa Pix Of Stars? - Bob Young [40]
   Snippets O' Saucer Smear Volume 47, No. 2 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [90]
   Re: Jan 5 Illinois Pix Of Stars? - Bruce Maccabee [56]
   Jan 5 Illinois Pix Of Stars? - Roger Evans [24]
   Re: The Unhappy Truth: ET Has No Home To Phone - Jim Mortellaro [54]
   Re: FUFOR Web Site - James Easton [124]
   NASA Calls Batmobile Designer - UFO UpDates - Toronto [26]

  Mar 26:

   Re: FUFOR Web Site - Steven W. Kaeser [59]
   Britain's 1950s Flying Saucer Revealed - Blair Cummins [87]
   CPR-Canada News: Two Crop Circles Reported in Spain - Paul Anderson
   [56]
   'The UFO Experience' Domain Name At Auction - Steven W. Kaeser [58]
   Re: 'The UFO Experience' Domain Name At Auction - Stephen MILES Lewis
   [22]
   Re: 'The UFO Experience' Domain Name At Auction - Steven W. Kaeser [29]
   Re: FUFOR Web Site - Tim D. Brigham [59]

  Mar 27:

   Re: FUFOR Web Site - SMiles Lewis [142]
   Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [207]
   M2M/De Palma/Hoagland - UFO UpDates - Toronto [6]
   NASA 'Smoking Gun' Footage - Rebuttal To Debunkers - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [65]
   Letter To The Editor, The Toronto Star - UFO UpDates - Toronto [60]
   Completion Of Recent MUFON CT Investigation - Mark Cashman [21]
   Sarah McClendon? - Josh Goldstein [13]
   NASA's Response To Oberg's Mars Polar Lander Story - Ron Cecchini [10]

  Mar 28:

   TMP News: Weekly Briefing 3.27.00 - Paul Anderson [81]
   Re: Completion Of Recent MUFON CT Investigation - Bruce Maccabee [8]
   Filer's Files #12 -- 2000 - Majorstar@aol.com [448]
   Re: Sarah McClendon? - Steven W. Kaeser [38]
   Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown - Ron Cecchini [82]
   CSICOP and Skeptical Inquirer Make News - Ron Cecchini [37]
   Re: NASA's Response To Oberg's Mars Polar Lander - Ron Cecchini [8]
   Re: Sarah McClendon? - Jerome Clark [22]
   Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown - Brian Straight
   [15]

  Mar 29:

   Re: Sarah McClendon? - Stephen G. Bassett [35]
   Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000 - Tom Carey [48]
   Re: Completion Of Recent MUFON CT Investigation - Mark Cashman [74]
   Re: Sarah McClendon? - Scott Hale [23]
   Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown - Roger Evans [36]
   Re: Sarah McClendon? - GT McCoy [55]
   Re: Sarah McClendon? - Robert Gates [50]
   NASA Johnson Space Center Exhibit Features UFOs? - Keith Rowell [25]
   Re: Sarah McClendon? - James Bond Johnson [12]
   Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown - Steven W. Kaeser
   [37]
   Re: Sarah McClendon? - Kenny Young [43]
   Re: Sarah McClendon? - Jerome Clark [36]
   Mars Program Report Outlines Route To Success - NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
   [122]
   Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000 - Tim Haley [56]

  Mar 30:

   UFO Thesis - Jacques Poulet [15]
   Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000 - James Bond Johnson [23]
   Cydonian Imperative Website Taking Shape - Mac Tonnies [17]
   Re: Sarah McClendon? - Roy J Hale [13]
   Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000 - Neil Morris [48]
   Re: UFO Thesis - Brian Cuthbertson [16]
   10-25-89 'Sudbury Star' Story - Michel M. Deschamps [38]
   Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000 - Robert Gates [33]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 13 - John Hayes [294]

  Mar 31:

   Re: Sarah McClendon? - Jim Mortellaro [50]
   Re: Sarah McClendon? - Scott Hale [9]
   Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown - Sue Kovios [39]
   Re: 10-25-89 'Sudbury Star' Story - Todd Lemire [40]
   P3N BULLETIN: Federal Judge Dismisses UFO Lawsuit - Blair Cummins [30]
   Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000 - David Rudiak [45]
   Future Lecturers at Science North, Sudbury - Michel M. Deschamps [31]
   Re: 10-25-89 'Sudbury Star' Story - Larry Hatch [61]
   US Presidential Election - How Not To Get Elected? - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [76]
   Re: Sarah McClendon? - Steven W. Kaeser [30]
   The OZ Files - The Australian UFO Story Tour - Bill Chalker [90]
   PRG/SGB/X-PPAC [was: Re: Sarah McClendon] - Stephen G. Bassett [75]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                        Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:13:14 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 07:59:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal


 >From: John Velez
 >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:52:27 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:09:15 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal

Previously, John wrote:

 >>>Two weeks ago I proposed that we secure ten non-abductee UpDates
 >>>list participants to act as a control group in an independant
 >>>test. Claims have been made that the dust in the homes of
 >>>'experiencers' contains glass-like beads and other odd silica
 >>>particles that do not appear in the homes of non experiencers.

<snip>

  Chris Rutkowski added:

 >>You want dust samples from people who do not think they are
 >>abductees. How do they know that?

John replied:

 >The same way we cannot 'prove' that the abductees are actually
 >abductees, it would be impossible to prove the opposite. We'll
 >just have to take the word of the participants that they have
 >(or have not) had a lifetime of UFO/alien related experiences. I
 >don't think it'll happen, but wouldn't it be a real mind blower
 >if there was actually some difference in the samples that break
 >down according to which group the respondents claim to belong
 >to?! I'm looking forward to seeing the results of this thing.

Hi, John!

We haven't been in our new house long enough to participate.
However, I wish you great success in your grand experiment; I
think it's worthwhile!

I do believe there is an opportunity that you may be passing up,
though, that sort of relates to what Chris mentioned above.
This is sort of a parallel to an ESP experiment that was done
(at Stanford?) where several hundred students where asked to put
their "yes" or "no" answers to whether they believed in the
existence of ESP in sealed envelopes which were then collected
and kept under double lock and key. These same students were
then given standard ESP tests. Surprisingly, the group that said
they believed in ESP did about 50% (I believe) better than those
that did not believe in the existence of ESP.

I think it would be interesting to find out the correlation
between the existence of these "spheres" and what the general
attitude is toward the belief in ET life. I've always felt that
people that believed in ET life might be more likely candidates
for abduction than non believers. While you may get some
"spheres" in some of the homes of those that believed in ET
life, it would be interesting, indeed, if these "spheres" _never_
showed up in the homes of non believers!

Since the abduction experience seems to be such a mental
experience as well as a physical one, pre-disposition might
account for how ET's "choose" their targets. By extension, the
presence of "spheres" in the homes of those that believe might
be an indicator of an abduction or attempt that has yet to
surface in one's memory.

Just a thought...

Roger








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                    Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 20:51:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:05:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!


 >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 02:26:03 -0500
 >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
 >Subject: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Hello All,

 >Two weeks ago I proposed that we secure ten non-abductee UpDates
 >list participants to act as a control group in an independant
 >test. Claims have been made that the dust in the homes of
 >'experiencers' contains glass-like beads and other odd silica
 >particles that do not appear in the homes of non experiencers.
 >We have an opportunity to conduct a little basic
 >science/research on our own _and_ I haven't received a single
 >bloody response from anyone! Amazing.

 >I received this note from Nick Balaskas today:

 >>Your suggestion that we do a study to determine if there is
 >>something out of the ordinary in the dust collected from the
 >>homes of people who have had, or still have, UFO abduction
 >>experiences is an excellent one, and one that must be done.
 >>Yes, I would be willing to help.

Hello John,

Perhaps you can dust off the following confusion:

A research on UFO UpDates on jvif@spacelab.net displays the
following threads.


29.Feb.2000: Mentioned Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
29.Feb.2000: Author of Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal
29.Feb.2000: Mentioned Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
29.Feb.2000: Mentioned Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
29.Feb.2000: Mentioned Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
29.Feb.2000: Mentioned Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
29.Feb.2000: Mentioned Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
29.Feb.2000: Mentioned Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
29.Feb.2000: Author of Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
23.Feb.2000: Author of Re: Alien Invasion Week on TLC
19.Feb.2000: Author of Re: Roswell Items Sent to NASA
11.Feb.2000: Author of Re: Everything Before This Book A Confabulation
11.Feb.2000: Author of Re:
09.Feb.2000: Author of Randle Responds To Velez - Elsewhere
08.Feb.2000: Author of Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
08.Feb.2000: Mentioned Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
07.Feb.2000: Author of Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
07.Feb.2000: Author of Re: TV Producers and Joe Nickell
07.Feb.2000: Author of Re: TV Producers and Joe Nickell
05.Feb.2000: Mentioned Re: TV Producers and Joe Nickell
05.Feb.2000: Author of Re: TV Producers and Joe Nickell
31.Jan.2000: Author of Re: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain
30.Jan.2000: Author of Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
29.Jan.2000: Mentioned Re: The Eyes Have It
29.Jan.2000: Author of Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
28.Jan.2000: Mentioned Re: The Eyes Have It
27.Jan.2000: Author of Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
27.Jan.2000: Mentioned Re: The Eyes Have It
27.Jan.2000: Mentioned Re: The Eyes Have It
27.Jan.2000: Mentioned Re: The Eyes Have It
27.Jan.2000: Mentioned Re: The Eyes Have It
26.Jan.2000: Author of Re: The Eyes Have It
26.Jan.2000: Author of Re: The Eyes Have It
23.Dec.1999: Mentioned Re: On False Memory

Please note there was no "Subject: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal".

Yet, Nick Balaskas wrote you this morning (?) in answer to a post
you, heck, didn't post?

If I were you, I'd check on Nick.

Serge









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   Mar > Mar 1

                    Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:37:56 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:54:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!


 >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 11:54:02 +0251
 >From: Stephen MILES Lewis <elfis@austin.rr.com>
 >Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Hello, all John, Steve,

 >>Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 02:26:03 -0500
 >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
 >>Subject: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>C'mon guys! Is this list just about blowing a lot of hot air on
 >>each other or are there still some people who are interested in
 >>looking for real answers? I wonder.

 >>Contact me at my e-mail address if you are interested in
 >>participating in the control group.

Sorry I missed this one pard, must've been during one of one of
the threads that I tend to jettison when things aren't
interesting - to moi at least.


 >>jvif@spacelab.net

 >>Sincerely,

 >>John Velez, Webmaster AIC

 >Dust Bunny Rookie Elfis reporting for duty sir JV,

 >Count me in! Within which thread did you post yer
 >original suggestion / query for participants - I missed it
 >somehow.

 >I'm almost more curious to see how many samples
 >get opened in route for inspection by the Postal Thugs -
 >"hmm... what's this powdery substance in this plastic
 >baggie marked 'abductee dust sample - do not break
 >seal' "  [turns to coworker] "Sounds like there's a new
 >type of dope on the streets."

Yes, I intend to send Dust Bunnies, however no DNA analysis must
be done as it would be a combination of Human, Dog, Cat, and ah,
Mollusk (er, Oregon Leopard Slug to be exact - I'm a gardener)

 >Send me sampling details (from which rooms? away
 >from the cat box, incense burners, and illicit chemical
 >stashes I presume?).

 >Ready to contribute my two specks worth.

 >SMiles
 >www.elfis.net


Levity is one of the Hallmarks of this list, however, John may
have something here. However in all seriousness, I am an
Experincer, non-abuctee (thank the God who is there) and would
like to contribute our Dust Bunnies to the cause, if I survive
the expedition under the Bed (they charge when they're wounded
you know) I'll gladly give a sample-of dust.

GT McCoy








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   Mar > Mar 1

                    Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 23:17:12 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 10:52:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!


 >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 02:26:03 -0500
 >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
 >Subject: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >I received this note from Nick Balaskas today:

 >>Your suggestion that we do a study to determine if there is
 >>something out of the ordinary in the dust collected from the
 >>homes of people who have had, or still have, UFO abduction
 >>experiences is an excellent one, and one that must be done.
 >>Yes, I would be willing to help.

 >Nick will conduct the analysis of any samples that are
 >submitted. I already have ten abductees (members of AIC) lined
 >up to submit samples from their homes. The only thing missing is
 >the non-abductee group.

<snip>

Hi everyone.

Although there is a micro-universe of strange things just
waiting to be discovered in this proposed dust study, we should
initially focus our attention only to strange things that are in
common to other unrelated dust samples.

Someone like me who is willing to put much time looking through
microscopes doesn't need to know which of the two groups each
dust sample belongs to until after all the dust samples have
been carefully examined and observations recorded. It is
important though that the specimens come directly to me and are
handled by everyone in a consistent manner.  Arrangements will
be made for others to independently examine all the submitted
dust samples through the microscope to see if they too come up
with similar or different findings.

In order to simplify things for everyone and get this proposed
dust study underway quickly, I have a few suggestions which
would help me get initial results in the shortest time. We can
always do a larger and more thorough dust study in the future
which can involve things such as the chemical analysis of
strange trace substances found or even try to grow any
micro-organisms which may be present.

I would like to suggest that people who wish to participate in
this dust project do the following:

1)  Wash you hands well and blow them dry if possible.

2)  Using a new roll of Scotch Tape, cut a length no less than
four inches and holding it from the ends only, place it sticky
side down on a flat surface. Gently press down so it picks up
the entire layer of dust.

3)  Insert the strip of Scotch Tape with dust in a small unused
zip lock plastic bag. Do not fold the scotch tape.

4)  Take at least two more dust samples in a similar way.
Collect them from different rooms and from different locations
(for example, off the floor under a bed, off the top of an
undusted door or shelf, etc.). Make sure to identify each zip
lock plastic bag so we can later determine where each dust
sample was collected from.

5)  Place your three or more dust samples in an envelope and
deliver it in person or mail it to me at the address below.
Please include your name, address and an e-mail address or phone
number. I will contact everyone to ask further questions after I
have first closely examined your dust samples and finished
comparing them with all the others.

6)  All findings of this initial dust study will first be made
available to John Velez and all the participants and later to
all other interested individuals.

Your dust samples can be mailed to me at the address below.

Nick Balaskas
Physics and Astronomy
York University
132 Lumbers Building
4700 Keele Street
Toronto, Ontario, Canada  M3J 1P3

FAX:  (416) 736-5516

Please wait a few more days for possible changes or additions to
the above steps as proposed by John Velez or others through UFO
UpDates before we officially get this dust study underway.

Nick









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   Mar > Mar 1

                       Respond to O'Reilly's UFO Farce

From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 00:33:44 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 10:56:48 -0500
Subject: Respond to O'Reilly's UFO Farce


I think we should all contact Mr. O'Reilly and let him know how
uninformed his guest was and how it would have been nice to have
had Officer Craig Stevens on the show. Maybe even have Stanton
or Bruce M. on to  give "our" side of the story. You guys should
try to get on these news shows more often.

Joe in Tampa

******************

From: www.sightings.com


(Note - Thanks to Michael Ramsey for securing this transcript
  of the O'Reily program. )

 From Michael Ramsey <enumaelish3600@netscape.net
2-29-00


To: enumaelish3600@netscape.net
From: Wendy Blair <wblair@emediamillworks.com

Show: THE O'REILLY FACTOR
Date: February 24, 2000

Contact Bill O'Reilly at:

oreilly@foxnews.com


This is a rush transcript. this copy may not be in its final
form and may be updated.


BILL O'REILLY, HOST: In the Back of the Book Segment tonight:
Are they coming from outer space?

On January 5th of this year, Millstadt, Illinois, police officer
Craig Stevens says he saw a large triangular object floating
through the sky. Three other policemen confirmed the sighting.
UFO investigators are now checking it out, and one theory is
that the object was a stealth blimp.

Joining us now from Seattle is Peter Ward, a professor of geo-
logical studies at the University of Washington, and author of
the book "Rare Earth."

So, Professor, you know, these sightings come -- continue, and
the -- you've got this cop, and he says he saw this thing, it
was a UFO, and three other cops say, "Yeah, we saw it, too,"
caused a lot of excitement in the Midwest, and when you hear
this, what do you think?

PROF. PETER WARD, "RARE EARTH" AUTHOR, UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON:
Well, the U.S. government for the last 50 yrs. has supposedly
been hiding things in hangars. U.S. scientists for the last 50
years have been looking into these supposed sightings, and we as
a group have decided to move on, and that's what I suspect that
these people in the Midwest ought to do, is move on.

O'REILLY: Have you ever heard of a scientist who does believe in
UFOs, extraterrestrials? Is there anybody around with any
authority that does believe?

WARD: I'd probably get in trouble if I say that there is. I know
of no one, actually, certainly in my circles and the people that
I associate with and work with. No.

O'REILLY: All right. So, in the academic world, UFOs have been
totally debunked. Is that fair, though? There's a lot of
phenomena out in the sky. I mean, we've had astronauts say,
"Hey, we saw something really weird." We've had policemen all
over the place. I mean, I talked to one woman -- and a very,
very honest, credible woman who I've known for years - - say, "I
saw something in Nova Scotia, and it changed my life." Do you
just discount these things?

WARD: Well, what I've tried to do in our book "Rare Earth" with
Don Brownlee -- we -- we haven't tried to say, "How often is
there intelligent life in the universe?" and, obviously, if it's
a UFO, it's being driven by something with intelligence. We've
asked the question "How often are there even worms or very lowly
animals in the universe?" and a lot of information in the last
five years suggests that there's not much out there. Bacteria,
yes, but evolved creatures -- worms, jellyfish, bunny rabbits --
not too many.

O'REILLY: In our solar system, right?

WARD: Not just our solar system. In the universe.

O'REILLY: OK.

WARD: The universe is a very lowly place.

O'REILLY: But how far have we been able to penetrate in the
universe? I mean, we -- we -- there are still places that our
technology can't bring us, correct?

WARD: Well, that's true, and maybe this is a failure of
imagination on our part, but a lot of new information doesn't
come from looking out into space. It's looking at the rock
record on earth, fossil record, and other -- paleontologists
tells us an awful lot about how difficult it was on the planet
for the evolution of life, and this planet appears to be in a
very benign part of our solar system and especially our galaxy.

O'REILLY: So because we had such a difficult time evolving over
mil - - was it billions or millions of years?

WARD: Oh, billions of years.

O'REILLY: Billions. OK. That you -- you don't believe that
another planet could replicate what we did.

WARD: Well, there are so many planets. There's 400 billion stars
in our solar system, and Carl Sagan didn't invent billions and
billions for nothing. These numbers are huge. So to say that
there is not another earthlike planet is crazy. However, to say
that we could travel in a spaceship and never find one is
probably also crazy. Maybe.

O'REILLY: All right. So somewhere out there...

WARD: Way out...

O'REILLY: ... way, way out there...

WARD: Way out there.

O'REILLY: ... there could be people going on spring break right
about now.

WARD: Well, maybe not people. But yes. Yes.

O'REILLY: Well, you know, whatever they are.

WARD: Whatever they are.

O'REILLY: Why -- why do people want so much to believe in UFOs,
because it's a huge, huge industry, as you know. Look at "The X
Files." And I -- I mean, people just can't get enough. Why?

WARD: I -- because we want them to be there. We want there to be
something less -- maybe less mundane than our own lives or our
own existence, and yet in -- the more I look and the older I
get, I realize this planet really is pretty unique, at least in
this solar system and probably in the cosmos.

O'REILLY: Do you get angry when people like Whitley Strieber
make a lot of money writing books that they've been captured by
aliens and all of this stuff? Does that anger you?

WARD: No. It makes me laugh, but what I do get angry -- having
written this book, in the last couple of weeks, we've gotten a
lot of press about it. I get really angry and almost threatening
e-mails and phone calls from people saying, essentially, "You've
taken by toys away. How dare you."

O'REILLY: Oh, don't worry about the threatening e-mails,
Professor. We -- we're very used to that here. You have to take
that with good humor. If they're interested enough to write you,
that -- that's a compliment. But there are people who get very
emotional about UFOs and aliens and all of that, right?

WARD: Oh, there -- there certainly are. There certainly are.

O'REILLY: Have you ever analyzed that and why they -- they're
tied in? It's got to be more than just their -- look, you --
you've got to be a moron to be bored these days with the
computer, right? I mean, just turn it on and...

WARD: Well, that's...

O'REILLY: You know, come on. There's got to be a reason why we
want there to be so -- you know, some space guy to come down.

WARD: Well, let's ask the chief of SETI. I was debating him last
night, and here's a person who really wants there to be aliens
because he spent 150 million bucks looking for them.

O'REILLY: Who's this?

WARD: Seth Shostak down in the Puerto Rican Arecibo Radio
Telescope. He's the head of the SETI Institute. They are looking
and are soliciting money, and I -- personally, I subscribe to
the idea we should look. I just don't think we ought to spend a
lot of money doing it.

O'REILLY: Does this guy believe there are aliens out there
waiting to come down?

WARD: Oh, his job depends on it, so I...

O'REILLY: Yeah, so -- this is a huge industry. We've got to talk
to this guy, so we'll book him, too.

All right, Professor. Thanks very much.

WARD: Sure.

O'REILLY: And we hope everybody's not depressed that the aliens
-- because I don't -- I've never seen them anyway, but I have
seen a lot of politicians who I have very strong suspicions
about.

Thanks.

WARD: Thank you for having me.








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   Mar > Mar 1

                    Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 01:25:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:00:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!


 >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 02:26:03 -0500
 >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
 >Subject: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >I received this note from Nick Balaskas today:

 >>Your suggestion that we do a study to determine if there is
 >>something out of the ordinary in the dust collected from the
 >>homes of people who have had, or still have, UFO abduction
 >>experiences is an excellent one, and one that must be done.
 >>Yes, I would be willing to help.

 >Contact me at my e-mail address if you are interested in
 >participating in the control group.


John,

Does the fact that I've had sightings affect my being a control
sample gatherer?  Just wondering.

May inquire ask non-UFO-related people I know and ask them if
they'd be willing to participate in this study.

Michel M. Deschamps








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   Mar > Mar 1

                   Errol Please Post... This Is Not A Joke

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 01:36:31 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:09:49 -0500
Subject: Errol Please Post... This Is Not A Joke


Sorry to inform you that my close cousin recently sent me an
email, it was supposed to be a funny.

It wound up containing a virus.  I have no idea which of you may
have been sent the mail. It occured when I was eating dinner.
Came back to see my computer running, modem on - sending data.

When I found out what happened, I spent the $25 bucks
it cost to call McAfee.  It was worth it.  Took just a few
moments to correct.

The instructions which accompany this mail are sent directly
from McAfee, but you may have some trouble as I did... if so,
there are instructions and phone numbers to assist you in the
attached (below).

This is no one's fault.  The virus worm will force the infected
machine to sign onto the internet every thirty seconds and
attempt to send the virus to the entire email address file.

Many of you must have gotten it.

I attach the instructions, telephone numbers, et.al., below.

Yet again... with my condolences.

Jim Mortellaro

=======================================

Subj: DO NOT OPEN MY EMAIL FILE
Date: 02/29/2000 6:20:17 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: jrshark@dreamscape.com (John R. Mako MAI, SRA)


Hi All!   Looks like today, I was infected with an email virus
which sends itself to everyone in my internet address book.
Don't open any attachments to emails sent today, 2/29.

Since I am getting some messages back, it looks like some of you
have been infected.  I have already cleaned my machine.

Below are the instructions to remove the w32/Pretty.worm virus.

-------------------------------------------------------

Manual Removal of W32/Pretty.Worm


Creation of the REGEDIT.SCR File

1. Click on the Start button.  Highlight Programs, then click on
    MS-DOS Prompt.

  2. At the C:\WINDOWS> prompt type the following:  copy
     regedit.exe regedit.scr <then press ENTER on the keyboard>
     exit  <then press ENTER on the keyboard>


Backup the Registry

IMPORTANT: Before beginning to manually remove W32/Pretty.Worm
from your computer make sure to backup the Registry.  This will
safeguard your Windows installation.  You can recover your
Windows configuration by restoring the backup if an error occurs
during the removal process.

  1. Click on Start.  The Start menu will appear.

  2. Click on Run.

  3. Type REGEDIT.SCR in the Open field.

  4. Click the OK button.  The Registry Editor window will
     appear.

  5. Click on the Registry pull-down menu.

  6. Click on Export Registry File.

  7. In the File Name field type "backup" (without the quotation
     marks).

  8. In the Save In field be sure that the desktop is selected
     (if it is not, click on the pull down menu and select
     "Desktop").

  9. Select "All" in the Export Range group box.

10. Click on the Save button.  The registry will then be saved.

11. Click the X in the top right corner to close the Registry Editor.

You now have a backup of your Registry saved as "backup" on your
desktop. NOTE: If you need to restore the Registry you can
double click on the "backup" file located on the desktop.  Once
these instructions are complete and everything is running
properly you may delete this backup file by right-clicking on it
then left-clicking on Delete from the pop-up menu that appears.


Edit the Registry

  1. Click on the Start button.  The Start menu will appear.

  2. Click on Run.

  3. Type REGEDIT.SCR in the Open field.

  4. Click the OK button.  The Registry Editor window will appear.

  5. Click on the plus (+) sign next to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE.

  6. Click on the plus (+) sign next to SOFTWARE.

  7. Click on the plus (+) sign next to Classes.

  8. Click on the plus (+) sign next to exefile.

  9. Click on the plus (+) sign next to shell.

10. Click on the plus (+) sign next to open.

11. Highlight the folder named command.

12. Double-click on the word "default" on the right side of the
     screen.

13. Delete the "Files32.VXD" text that is found in the Value
Data field.

14. Now type the following into the Value Data field exactly as
     it appears (after the colon):"%1" %*

15. Click the OK button then close the registry editor.

16. Restart the computer.


Deleting Pretty Park Files

  1. Click on the Start button.

  2. Highlight Find then click on Files or Folders.

  3. In the Named field type FILES32.VXD

  4. In the Look In field make sure the C: drive is selected then
     click the Find Now button.

  5. The computer will then search for the file named FILES32.VXD.
     When it finds it the file name will be displayed at the
     bottom of the dialog box.

  6. If the file is found right-click on the icon that appears to
     the left of the file name.  A pop-up menu will appear.  Now
     left click on Delete. Answer YES to any questions about
     placing this file in the recycle bin.

  7. Now delete the FILES32.VXD text that was typed in the Named
     field and type PRETTYPARK in its place. 8. Click on the Find
     Now button.

  9. The computer will then search for any files named PRETTYPARK.
     When it finds it the file name will be displayed at the
     bottom of the dialog box.

10. If the file is found right-click on the icon that appears to
     the left of the file name.  A pop-up menu will appear.  Now
     left click on Delete. Answer YES to any questions about
     placing this file in the recycle bin.

11. Click the X in the top right corner to close the Find dialog
     box.

You are now clean from W32/Pretty.Worm

If you have problems, call McAfee at 1-801-492-2600 (long
distance charges only will apply), or 1-800-950-1165 ($25 fee).

McAfee Technical Support


Jim Mortellaro







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   Mar > Mar 1

                    Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 05:15:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:11:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!


 >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:07:17 -0800
 >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 02:26:03 -0500
 >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
 >>Subject: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Two weeks ago I proposed that we secure ten non-abductee UpDates
 >>list participants to act as a control group in an independant
 >>test. Claims have been made that the dust in the homes of
 >>'experiencers' contains glass-like beads and other odd silica
 >>particles that do not appear in the homes of non experiencers.
 >>We have an opportunity to conduct a little basic
 >>science/research on our own _and_ I haven't received a single
 >>bloody response from anyone! Amazing.

 >>Nick will conduct the analysis of any samples that are
 >>submitted. I already have ten abductees (members of AIC) lined
 >>up to submit samples from their homes. The only thing missing is
 >>the non-abductee group.

Jim writes:

 >I also missed seeing your first request for this. But I think it
 >would be better to gather the control-group dust from those not
 >on this list at all, and from friends or neighbors whom you know
 >are not at all interested in UFOs, or who deny their existence.
 >That's because those of us on this list (well, most of us) have
 >had some predisposition to being open towards the reality of the
 >UFO phenomenon. That's why we're on the list. In many cases that
 >predisposition stems from being a known abductee -- at least
 >known for sure to the abductee. But in some cases that
 >predisposition may have been prompted by being an unknowing
 >abductee -- one who has not yet recalled any memories associated
 >with it, and has not yet observed anomalous scars or missing
 >time, etc. So, if anomalous "dust" shows up in the homes of some
 >of the latter, this would cast needless doubt upon the matter.

 >But if what's wanted for controls are only those who are _not_
 >currently undergoing frequent alien abductions of which they are
 >all too aware, then your procedure seems OK to me.


Hiya Jim,

This is, after all, the 'Internet' and that fact alone
guarantees that the tests will not meet up to strict scientific
standards. We'll try to do the best we can under the
circumstances. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try it though. The
results, whether fer or agin should prove interesting and
there's nothing wrong with us doing a little investigating for
our own heads. If something like this could be funded, then you
can mount a 'serious' attempt to try replicate the original
study. This is a little experiment that I've proposed among
ourselves. I don't have or make any pretentions that the results
be taken as gospel or that it can ever stand up to a strict
scientific scruitiny.

Let's 'do it' the best we can and take the ensuing results with
a grain of salt. The results could prove to be interesting in
spite of any shortcomings in the execution. It may even
instigate more serious efforts to replicate the original study
later on by others with funding in hand who are far more
qualified than myself. Like I said, let's do the best we can
under the limited circumstances and not place demands and
standards on it that the medium we are using simply does not
allow. We shouldn't let those 'limitations' stop us or
'invalidate it' before we even try.

I'm sure there are several folks who want to kill this baby in
the cradle. Later for them. Let's press on. There are many
others who are as interested in seeing the end results of this
whether it is executed with 'absolute perfection' or not!
Someone somewhere will always find fault with anything anyone
does anyway. Nature of the beast. :)

Let's just do it. We can _all_ have fun kicking the 'sandcastle'
apart later. Let's get it built first!

John Velez










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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                        Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:37:37 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:16:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal


 >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:13:14 -0600
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: John Velez
 >>Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:52:27 -0500
 >>Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:09:15 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal


 >Hi, John!

 >We haven't been in our new house long enough to participate.
 >However, I wish you great success in your grand experiment; I
 >think it's worthwhile!

 >I do believe there is an opportunity that you may be passing up,
 >though, that sort of relates to what Chris mentioned above.
 >This is sort of a parallel to an ESP experiment that was done
 >(at Stanford?) where several hundred students where asked to put
 >their "yes" or "no" answers to whether they believed in the
 >existence of ESP in sealed envelopes which were then collected
 >and kept under double lock and key. These same students were
 >then given standard ESP tests. Surprisingly, the group that said
 >they believed in ESP did about 50% (I believe) better than those
 >that did not believe in the existence of ESP.

 >I think it would be interesting to find out the correlation
 >between the existence of these "spheres" and what the general
 >attitude is toward the belief in ET life. I've always felt that
 >people that believed in ET life might be more likely candidates
 >for abduction than non believers. While you may get some
 >"spheres" in some of the homes of those that believed in ET
 >life, it would be interesting, indeed, if these "spheres" _never_
 >showed up in the homes of non believers!

 >Since the abduction experience seems to be such a mental
 >experience as well as a physical one, pre-disposition might
 >account for how ET's "choose" their targets. By extension, the
 >presence of "spheres" in the homes of those that believe might
 >be an indicator of an abduction or attempt that has yet to
 >surface in one's memory.


Indeed.  As long as it stops there, the thought that is.
Someone might get the idea that balls in dust bunnies is related
to just being predisposed to abduction and not abdcuted.  A
little too new age for this dust bunnie.

If there is a correlation, Roger, it is likely a genuinely
physical one, relating to the technologies used by aliens in
getting themselves here and us there, eh?

If it's physical, then it's just that, physical evidence of a
physical, not a psychical, phenom.  Most likely.  Damned hard
enough figuring out the physical nature of this crap without
immediately complicating the phenom with something even more
esoteric.

We got balls in dust bunnies?  Good.  Let's figure out if so and
why without getting it all mucked up with, ESP, channeling and
the kisser on Mars.

No I did not misunderstand you.  I just cyphered that someone
with a little less sense might jump in and wake up J. Jaime with
the extention.

Here, let me give you an example.... your kids' marbles don't
count.

Just a thought.

Jim Mortellaro








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                        Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal

From: Kelly McGillis <kellymcg@netcom.ca>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 10:58:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:20:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal


 >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:52:27 -0500
 >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
 >Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >1. Kelly suggested the following;

 >>And perhaps there is a third group you may wish to test.  This
 >>would be a group of people who experience Awareness during Sleep
 >>Paralysis (ASP).

 >Kelly, the original study _does not include_ an ASP group and in
 >deference to the wisdom of the old 'KISS' concept (Keep It
 >Simple Stupid!) I don't see any reason to introduce it into the
 >sampling now. The original claim is, that there is a difference
 >between the content of the dust in the homes of 'abductees' as
 >opposed to 'non-abductees.'  We're just trying to see if _those
 >results_ (without introducing a third or forth control group
 >which was _not_ included in the original) can be replicated.

 >Yours is an interesting suggestion and it deserves to be checked
 >out at some point. After we do this, -you- may wish to initiate
 >such a study yourself. I would be happy to contribute a sample
 >to it. Because we have more supply than demand, dust is cheap in
 >New York at the moment and I have plenty to spare. :) Thanx for
 >your interest.


You're welcome!  I did not mean to muddy the waters by introducing
a third group - as I said, I am not a scientist.  And since I am
not a scientist, I could never conduct a scientific study of my
own.  And KISS means "Kelly's Incredible Secret Society" not
"Keep it Simple Stupid".

Good luck with the Dust Bunny Research!  Sounds so scientific to
me, that perhaps I shall initiate my own study!  I would
endeavour to call it:  Kelly's Incredible Scientific Success:
Black Gucky Bathroom Mold and the Incredible Incidents of UFO
Sightings - an Incredible Co-relation Factor!  Incredible!

I just was trying to help.

Kelly









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                     NIDS Responds to Klass-ic Stupidity

From: National Institute for Discovery Science <nids@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 20:05:25 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 17:23:58 -0500
Subject: NIDS Responds to Klass-ic Stupidity


National Institute for Discovery Science - http://www.nidsci.org

The following is the NIDS reply to a recent article in the
Skeptics UFO Newsletter (SUN) #62 by Philip Klass suggesting
that the recent multiple police officer eyewitness case on
January 5, 2000 was based on the police officers mistakenly
seeing the planet Venus. The NIDS report of the case can be
found at: http://www.accessnv.com/nids/

Rebuttal to SUN #62, March 2000
by
Eric W. Davis, Ph.D.
Fellow of the British Interplanetary Society
Member of the American Astronomical Society
Senior Member of the American Inst. for Aeronautics & Astronautics


The SUN author suggests, on the basis of extremely brief
excerpts taken out of context from eyewitness testimonies, that
a parsimonious explanation for the Illinois UFO case of Jan. 5
is that the UFO "might be" Venus. The SUN author then faults the
NIDS analysis because NIDS investigators did not consider this a
possibility.

NIDS considered but rejected stars or planets as possible
explanations for this case on the grounds that the majority
testimony identified the UFO as a large (200-600 feet linear,
40-60 feet thick) triangular-shaped object possessing (on its
underside) downward pointing white lights arranged at the
corners, a red light near the center, possible additional red
lights spaced at intervals across the underside and near the
perimeter, and a row of multicolored lights along one side
between two corner white lights.

There also appeared to be large windows with light emanating
through them, but these could have possibly been openings or
light sources. The bright white lights on the corners were
described as blinding to the eye and lighting up the area below
the craft.

A witness estimate of the brightness of the white lights was
that they were much brighter than a police cruiser spotlight.

Witnesses observed the UFO to be hovering, slowly rotating about
a vertical axis, a combination of the first two followed by slow
linear motion, and slow linear motion or hovering followed by
sudden linear accelerations sending the object across the sky to
the witness�s apparent horizon.

The UFO was flying at low altitude, described by witnesses as
being tree top or 1000-2000 feet above ground.

The object flew northeast to southwest from Highland at 4 a.m.,
later observed at Lebanon and Shiloh in Illinois, changed its
course to northwest and then changed course again heading
southwest.

At 4:30 a.m. it was sighted at 10,000 feet altitude near Dupo,
changing direction from southwest to north then to east while
maintaining that altitude (knowing that this altitude is very
approximate), yet at this time Venus was still less than a
degree above the horizon and very difficult to see.

The object hung around the Dupo area for about two more hours.

These facts together do not argue in favor of a planet or star
explanation for the UFO.

They argue in favor of an aerial object, a craft, possessing
extended physical dimension, shape, complex array of lights
along with slight sound.

The present data is insufficient to determine whether this
object was a special access (black) program vehicle or something
of unknown origin.

The planet Venus was not above the horizon until it rose at 4:25
a.m. on January 5 in Illinois/Missouri and it was -4.07 visual
magnitude.

At 4:30 a.m. Venus was 0� 45� (corrected for atmospheric
refraction) above the horizon when it could first become visible
to local observers, but generally difficult to see because of
the surrounding trees, rolling hills and structures known within
the localities of the UFO sighting.

Venus was at 4� 38� (corrected for atmospheric refraction) below
the horizon at 110� 52� azimuth (between E and SE) when the UFO
was first sighted near Highland, Ill. in the northeast part of
the sky by the first witness at approximately 4 a.m.

At this altitude below the horizon, Venus will not be seen any
earlier in this time frame due to refraction. (The refraction
angle correction for visible star/planet altitude above/below
the horizon is measured in arc minutes, 1/60th of a degree,
which decreases in value as objects approach zenith, and 30 arc
minutes is the maximum refraction correction at the horizon.)


The second witness saw the UFO in Lebanon approximately ten
minutes later when Venus was still 2� 49� (corrected for
atmospheric refraction) below the horizon (112� 23� azimuth).


The police log in Lebanon also noted that witness one�s report
was recorded at 4:10 a.m. ten minutes after he sighted the
object in Highland.

Jupiter (-2.51 visual mag.) rose at 12:11 p.m. on January 4 and
set at 1:15 a.m. on January 5 so it was not in the sky during
the January 5th event.

Mercury (-0.77 visual mag.) was well below the horizon near the
sun until it rose at 7:02 a.m. that morning.

Vega (visual mag. 0.10, NE), Arcturus (visual mag. 0.02, E),
Sirius (visual mag. �1.6, SW), Procyon (visual mag. 0.5, SW),
Rigel (visual mag. 0.3, W), Betelgeuse (visual mag. 0.6, W) and
Capella (visual mag. 0.2, NW) are the only relatively bright
stars at or above the horizon after 4 a.m. January 5. But again,
they (visual magnitudes and sky positions) do not fit the facts
as described by the eight witnesses as an explanation for the
UFO.

A thorough forensic investigation requires consideration of all
facts and details gathered from complete eyewitness testimony,
and not just from selected excerpts from same such testimony.

Anything short of this is irresponsible.

The testimony transcripts were put on the internet to make clear
to interested readers the evolution of events as described by
the witnesses interviewed by NIDS.

It is erroneous that the SUN author would extract selected
excerpts from witness testimony out of context as described in
SUN #62 (March, 2000) so as to frame a simple explanation for
the Illinois UFO.

For example, the SUN author neglected the rest of witness one�s
testimony describing how the object "kept moving" and "kept
getting closer" as he continued to watch it in the northeastern
sky until it was close enough to him that he could see the
underside and side of the object, describing it�s size, array of
red lights and windows on it. The object kept moving on to the
southwest.

Venus was below the horizon and between east and southeast at
the time.








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                      Satellite Decay Cross References

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 12:37:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 17:51:46 -0500
Subject: Satellite Decay Cross References


Satellite Decay Cross References for Sightings in China, Tibet,
and East Africa

Hello List,

The clipping below may be of some assistance towards
identification of sightings in China, Tibet, and East Africa.
Thanks go out to Jonathan McDowell Harvard-Smithsonian Center
for Astrophysics Newsletter for this infomation.

The ASTRO-E X-ray astronomy satellite was launched on Feb 10.
However, the first stage of the M-V launch vehicle (serial
M-V-4) went off course. An anomalous vibration was detected 25
seconds after launch. At 41 seconds ceramic heat shields in  the
first stage nozzle apparently broke and fell off, and thrust
vector control on the nozzle was lost.

Stage 1 separated at 1 min 15 s; stage 2 separated at 3 min 38
s. The third stage burn completed at 5 min 21s. Last signals
from M-V-4 were received at 20 min after launch; the payload
probably separated from the third stage at 23 min.

Although the upper stages were able to fire and make some
correction to the trajectory, ASTRO-E ended up with a perigee of
only 80 km and an apogee of 410 km. It may have reentered on the
first orbit at around 0230-0300UTC somewhere between East Africa
and Tibet or western China (depending on the altitude at
injection); Space Command don't seemed to have cataloged any
objects from the launch.

Todd Lemire
http://members.home.net/tlemire/UFOCENTRAL.html

--

"We would rather, I suspect, fear the unknown than convert it to
the known.  What we may fear more deeply than the unknown itself
is the prospect of actually knowing it.  Happily for all of us
there are people like yourself who refuse to be bound by such
mass refusal of reality, who are not afraid to seek and learn."

Coral Lorenzen: Flying Saucers - The Startling Evidence of The
Invasion from Outer Space









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                 Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 10:53:42 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:02:14 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO


 >Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 01:11:15 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Kathleen Anderson <KAnder6444@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO Congress
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 02:54:52 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO Congress
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:45:35 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO Congress
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Why do so many people on this list worry so damned much about
 >>supporting biographies and Curriculum Vitae? Huh? Doesn't what
 >>the dude have to say matter much more than his CV?
 >>Who are we to determine who is righteous enough to speak our
 >>minds and who are not? Seems that is the purview of those who
 >>put on the show.

 >Sorry, not sure which comment is yours Jim. I am airing my
 >opinion for these reasons. And I am in agreement with Robert.

 >Mr. Reed has never clarified "whom/who" he spoke with at MUFON
 >in Seattle. As State Section Director I remain clueless. If it
 >was National UFO Reporting Center and Peter Davenport, that
 >doesn't work as he was out of the country. There are those that
 >have contacted the University of Washington and no one can find
 >a Dr. Reed ever working there. We can't even verify he's a
 >doctor.

 >What is so secretive about the location. I hike a lot and would
 >like to know the general area of the trail. What's to lose? I'd
 >get abducted so something?

 >I don't think titles make you an authority in the ufo field but
 >I take it very personal when someone makes up stories just to
 >get attention. It wastes my time and tests my patience and
 >trust. I am speaking in general here. It deludes serious
 >investigation and makes most of us look like a monkey's a#@.
 >Excuse my un ladylike language but I get rather irate when
 >feeling we are being played the fool.

 >Kathleen Andersen


This Reed idiot also claimed he spoke with Peter Davenport.

I was one of the first to begin exposing Reed's fraud and in a
conversation I had with Peter, he stated that he would have
remembered such a call even if it was a "what if" type of
calling regarding the recovery of an EBE.

Reed is a fraud and was presented with more than a fair share of
opportunities to come forward and present his evidence. But as
everyone knows, when it came time to put up or shut up Reed
wasn't up to the task.

Royce J. Myers III
eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3  (eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog (UFO Hall o' Shame)









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                        Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 14:26:15 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:30:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal


 >From: Jim Mortellaro
 >Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:37:37 -0500 (EST)
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:16:21 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal

 >>Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:13:14 -0600
 >>From: Roger Evans
 >>Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

Previously, I wrote:

 >>I do believe there is an opportunity that you may be passing up,
 >>though, that sort of relates to what Chris mentioned above.
 >>This is sort of a parallel to an ESP experiment that was done
 >>(at Stanford?) where several hundred students where asked to put
 >>their "yes" or "no" answers to whether they believed in the
 >>existence of ESP in sealed envelopes which were then collected
 >>and kept under double lock and key. These same students were
 >>then given standard ESP tests. Surprisingly, the group that said
 >>they believed in ESP did about 50% (I believe) better than those
 >>that did not believe in the existence of ESP.

 >>I think it would be interesting to find out the correlation
 >>between the existence of these "spheres" and what the general
 >>attitude is toward the belief in ET life. I've always felt that
 >>people that believed in ET life might be more likely candidates
 >>for abduction than non believers. While you may get some
 >>"spheres" in some of the homes of those that believed in ET
 >>life, it would be interesting, indeed, if these "spheres" _never_
 >>showed up in the homes of non believers!

 >>Since the abduction experience seems to be such a mental
 >>experience as well as a physical one, pre-disposition might
 >>account for how ET's "choose" their targets. By extension, the
 >>presence of "spheres" in the homes of those that believe might
 >>be an indicator of an abduction or attempt that has yet to
 >>surface in one's memory.

Jimmy replied:

<snip>

 >If it's physical, then it's just that, physical evidence of a
 >physical, not a psychical, phenom.  Most likely. Damned hard
 >enough figuring out the physical nature of this crap without
 >immediately complicating the phenom with something even more
 >esoteric. We got balls in dust bunnies?  Good.  Let's figure
 >out if so and why without getting it all mucked up with, ESP,
 >channeling and the kisser on Mars.


Hello, Jim...

I think that you do misunderstand me. I am not in any way
implying that the existence of "spheres" causes one to be
predisposed to an abduction. I am suggesting that the "spheres"
could be evidence of ET presence whether the home owner is aware
of it or not. What would be significant is if people that do not
believe in ET life _never_ have "spheres" while people that do
believe in ET life show the presence of "spheres", regardless of
how small the percentage.

For instance, let's assume that the findings of the original
study show 50% have spheres while the other half recalls no
abduction and has no spheres. And of the 50% that have them,
only half recall an abduction. This would indicate that of the
total group, only 25% correlated to the ET phenomenon in any way
shape or form.

On the other hand, if everyone in the group that had spheres
(regardless of whether they recalled an abduction or not) was
predisposed to believe in ET life while those without spheres
did not believe in ET life, then the ET connection is broader
and provides a more useful profile of what _may_ have happened
in the forgotten past or what _could_ still happen in the unseen
future.

As it stands, merely the presence of spheres provides no real
correlation, especially if the spheres show up in the homes of
people that clearly do not recall an ET experience. Knowing each
participants' disposition on ET life, however, might fill in the
missing part of the equation; especially when it comes to
dealing with the inevitable discrepancies between those that
have spheres and those that don't.

In short, we may find that belief in ET life may be a more
common denominator than a recalled abduction when it comes to
explaining the presence of these spheres.

Later.

Roger








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                    Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 14:48:05 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:34:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!


In reference to:

 >From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
 >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 17:19:20 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:14:15 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!

To whit he offered:

 >I can also get you good English dust from Moore Castle at good
 >rates. Ladies Caroline & Isobel's servants are unbelievably lax
 >and they have tons of the stuff over there. None of them has
 >been abducted either, except perhaps by the occasional
 >Frenchman, but we overlook that.

 >Seriously, I'll sign on for this one, even though I agree with
 >almost every word that Chris "Laugh A Minute" Rutkowski raises
 >in objection.

And he refers to _me_ as "Laugh a Minute"? Sheesh.

 >best wishes
 >Pananbrush D. Motesweeper
 >Genetic Sport

Peter, (and I say this with all the heartfelt emotion intended):

"Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk!"

Respectfully yours,

Chris Rutkowski





--
Nobody in particular









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                 Re: Errol Please Post... This Is Not A Joke

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 17:07:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:36:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Errol Please Post... This Is Not A Joke


 >Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 01:36:31 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Errol Please Post...This Is Not A Joke
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Sorry to inform you that my close cousin recently sent me an
 >email, it was supposed to be a funny.

 >It wound up containing a virus.  I have no idea which of you may
 >have been sent the mail. It occured when I was eating dinner.
 >Came back to see my computer running, modem on - sending data.

 >When I found out what happened, I spent the $25 bucks
 >it cost to call McAfee.  It was worth it.  Took just a few
 >moments to correct.

Jim-

You're very lucky.  The Pretty Park worm can cause your system
to become unusable if you try to remove it incorrectly.
Information pretaining to this worm virus can be found at
http://www.f-secure.com/v-descs/prettyp.htm and includes
instructions similar to those you had forwarded.

Do _not_ delete files32.vxd until you've made the registry
changes listed, and keep in mind that there are two locations in
the registry where it might be added and both must be checked.

If you delete the .vxd file without making the appropriate
changes to the registry and restarting the system you won't be
able to run any executable programs on the system, which
includes the registry editor.

Steve








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                            The Pelican Writes...

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 22:27:16 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:40:31 -0500
Subject: The Pelican Writes...


Magonia 70 will be out in the next few days. Pelican-fanciers
may appreciate a preview of our feathered friend's column. The
Pelican is always anxious to read your comments.

THE PELICAN WRITES . . .

The Pelican has been wondering, somewhat disingenuously, how it
is that different accounts of the same UFO incident can give the
reader very different impressions as to what really happened.

Take the famous incident of 17 April 1966 when Dale Spaur and
Barney Neff chased either a UFO or the planet Venus - depending
on which version you read - across part of Ohio and into
Pennsylvania. The Pelican has indulged in some ufological
exegesis on two accounts of the incident, a credulous one by J.
Allen Hynek (1) and a sceptical one by Robert Sheaffer. (2)
Together they serve only to deepen the mystery rather than
providing enlightenment.

So far as the Pelican is concerned, the biggest mystery in this
case is: Why did Spaur and Neff chase the UFO - or what they
thought was a UFO - in their car? Hardly any ufologists express
surprise when they hear of cars chasing UFOs, so perhaps the
problem needs to be spelled out clearly. If police officers in a
helicopter spot a stolen car then they can easily follow it and
relay its position to officers on the ground, who can then
arrange to intercept it. On the other hand, if police officers
in a car spot a stolen helicopter they would not be able to
chase it very far because a car is constrained to follow the
roads, but a helicopter can easily move in any direction.
Attempts to use a car to chase any airborne object would be
useless, as well as endangering other road users.

Well, given that the two officers were crazy enough to attempt
to chase something in the sky, what could they have really been
chasing? According to the believers, they must have been chasing
a UFO because there were a few other reports of the object
having been seen. Sceptics insisted that Spaur and Neff had been
chasing Venus. Sheaffer says that the sky at the time of the
incident was "quite clear", but does not give the source of this
vital piece of information. Hynek does not mention the state of
the sky.

As the UFO was seen in the east when the chase began, Sheaffer
says that if it really was a UFO the men should have seen two
objects - the UFO and Venus. But surely he means three objects?
Hynek says: "On that morning Venus was just a few degrees to the
upper right of the moon." So, surely, if the men started chasing
Venus, would not the fact that it remained in the same position
relative to the moon tend to destroy the illusion that it was
something moving through the atmosphere? Neither Hynek nor
Sheaffer discuss this problem.

Anyway, Spaur and Neff were chasing something which, Sheaffer
decided after studying their accounts of the incidents and a map
of the route they took, remained in the eastern sky, rising
slowly throughout the chase. Sheaffer thus concluded that they
were chasing Venus, because it was very bright and in the east
at the time. Or was it the moon? How could they have failed to
notice it if, as mentioned above, it was close to Venus? It is
all very puzzling to the poor old Pelican.

However, if someone saw the object, from a different vantage
point, being pursued by the police car, then it must have been a
Genuine UFO. It so happened that Officer Wayne Huston was
monitoring the radio conversation between Spaur and his office
in Ravenna. Huston was at East Palestine, Ohio, where he saw the
object when the pursuing police car was still about five miles
away. He said: "As it flew by, I was standing by my cruiser. I
watched it go right overhead. It was shaped something like an
ice cream cone with a sort of partly melted down top. The point
part of the cone was underneath; the top was sort of like a
dome. Spaur and Neff came down the road right after it. I fell
in behind them."

This is taken from Hynek's review of the case. Sheaffer manages
to give an entirely different impression, by rubbishing Huston's
testimony. He writes: "It can be shown, however, that Huston's
account of the object's approach is internally inconsistent.
Huston claims that he first sighted the object when cruiser P-13
was about five miles away. But he told Weitzel that the UFO
appeared to pass overhead in a matter of seconds, leaving him
little opportunity to observe the object. If Huston actually did
spot Floyd when it and its pursuers were reportedly five miles
away and if the object's speed did in fact match P-13's 80-85
m.p.h. velocity at this point, Huston would have had the object
in view for at least three and a half minutes."

So, did Huston underestimate the time the object was in view and
thus get a good look at it, or did he just get a fleeting
glimpse and thus get a false impression of the details, or was
he telling a pack of lies? This is where we need a good
investigator. Both Hynek and Sheaffer rely heavily for their
accounts on the work of William Weitzel, who investigated the
case for NICAP.

According to Hynek: "Much credit must go to William Weitzel,
instructor in philosophy at the University of Pittsburgh,
Bradford Branch, who with care, industry, tact, and persistence
brought together the many details of this Close Encounter
account."

Sheaffer is less impressed. "Unfortunately, Weitzel's enthusiasm
for the UFO phenomenon caused him to overlook some obvious
inconsistencies and, worse still, to be blind to significant
changes in the witnesses' stories as time passed."

Both Hynek and Sheaffer agree that the case was not properly
investigated by Project Blue Book, which was at that time headed
by Major Hector Quintanilla. As Sheaffer puts it: "There was in
principle no reason that Quintanilla could not have launched an
in-depth investigation into the sighting, and after a period of
weeks or months he might have produced an entirely satisfactory
explanation for every major aspect of the sighting. But the news
media pressure was on."

Thus, in the absence of a proper Blue Book investigation the
task was left entirely to amateurs, who no doubt had their own
axes to grind. But apart from any criticisms of their efforts,
this case raises another important issue - the question of the
reliability of eyewitness testimony.

Sheaffer's technique in dealing with UFO reports is to doubt the
accuracy of testimony whenever acceptance of it would leave
sightings unexplained. In his book The UFO Verdict he devotes a
chapter to discussing the problem of witness reliability, but
much of the inaccurate reporting he mentions seems to arise from
the fact that the witnesses did not know what they were looking
at.

However, he gives as one example the crash of a de Havilland 110
fighter at the Farnborough Air Show on 6 September 1952 in which
28 spectators were killed and 60 injured. He quotes the writer
Stephen Barlay who said that of the thousands of eyewitness
reports received only one letter was of some use and that most
witnesses "got the split-second time-sequence of disintegration
backwards, filled in bits with imagination, and preferred
theories to reports". (3)

But the Pelican has discovered another, probably more reliable,
account of this air crash investigation written by the man who
was given the task of examining the wreckage, aircraft engineer
Fred Jones. (4) Jones gives the true reasons for the
disappointing reports from spectators. "In the event... it
transpired that fewer than a dozen witnesses had told stories
that coincided with the now known facts of the disintegration.
They all described correctly what they had seen but, by a quirk
of circumstance, all those thousands of people saw the accident
only after it started, and the few who did get it right were
over near to Cove Radio Station, and nearly under, or to the
starboard side of, the aeroplane as it approached the
aerodrome." Jones was looking for evidence of what happened at
the start of the incident and eventually obtained it from a cine
film taken by a professional cameraman. An important point to
consider is that many witnesses were not in a good position to
see exactly what happened. Even more important is the fact that
it all happened so quickly. The starboard wing started to
buckle, then the wing was torn off and the aircraft
disintegrated. Jones remarks: "All this takes time to describe,
but it actually occurred in less than half a second." The
Pelican wonders how many readers could accurately remember a
fairly complex sequence of events presented to them
unexpectedly, and lasting for only half a second? No, this is
not a good example of witness unreliability.

Back to the great UFO chase. Can we make any sense of it? Not
much; there are too many loose ends, and accounts of it have
become too distorted by either credulity or scepticism, though,
as Sheaffer says, we would have a satisfactory explanation if it
had been competently and impartially investigated at the time.

References

  1. Hynek, J. Allen. The UFO Experience: A Scientific Inquiry,
     Abelard-Schuman, 1972

  2. Sheaffer, Robert. The UFO Verdict: Examining the Evidence,
     Prometheus Books, 1981

  3. Barlay, Stephen, Aircrash Detective, Hamish Hamilton, 1969

  4. Jones, Fred. Air Crash: The Clues in the Wreckage, Robert
     Hale, 1985


--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk









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   Mar > Mar 1

                 Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO

From: Kelly <kellymcg@netcom.ca>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:50:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 19:37:20 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO


 >Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 10:53:42 -0800
 >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO Congress
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 01:11:15 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Kathleen Anderson <KAnder6444@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO Congress
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca
 >
 >>>Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 02:54:52 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO Congress
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:45:35 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO Congress
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca
 >
 >>>Why do so many people on this list worry so damned much about
 >>>supporting biographies and Curriculum Vitae? Huh? Doesn't what
 >>>the dude have to say matter much more than his CV?

<snip>

And in my ever continuing quest for a page to call my own, here
is my latest version!  It's just going to keep getting better
and better! See, I have thought of something unique.  I am going
to build and destroy homepages - my own of course!  And they all
hold great clues to UFO mysteries and other enticing things.

Thanks for your patronage and curiosity,

Kelly

http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/RomanceRd/kellykiss/









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   Mar > Mar 1

                          Secret Deep Space Probes?

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 21:18:02 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:50:22 -0500
Subject: Secret Deep Space Probes?


On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 JamesOberg@aol.com wrote:

 >By the way, Nick, the idea that the NSA -- or anyone else --
 >has secret deep space probes is so utterly looney, I really
 >have to wonder which dimension we're talking about. But then,
 >hey, Nick, you LIKE "looney pictures' from space satellites,
 >don't you <wink>??

Jim, you are certainly no different in eliciting controversy in
regards to your research findings and personal opinions from
your many articles and books, many which I own and still
treasure.  For someone who has revealed so many amazing Soviet
space secrets and facts previously unknown to both space
enthusiasts and experts and for someone who has worked at NASA's
Mission Control during Space Shuttle launches, some of which had
exclusive intelligence/military space probe payloads and
non-NASA astronaut crews, how can you dismiss even the idea of
secret deep space probes as "so utterly looney"?  Unless you are
an insider yourself, you wouldn't really know one way or the
other for sure, would you?

 From the many false alarms in radio SETI, actual sightings by
amateur astronomers and even many testimonials from insiders,
including a certain General involved in military manned space
activities who made a visit to Toronto years ago (I will share
some of my sources if you share with me some of yours), I at
least have a solid basis to suspect that there are secret space
probes in Earth orbit and in deep space as well as spacecraft
which are neither Russian or American...

One person who I have not yet talked to but may have been a
colleague of yours is Clark McClelland, Spacecraft Operator
(ScO) of the Space Shuttle Fleet.  If just a few of the things
Clark mentions in the "Incidents" section of his web page (see
below) are facts, then even I may have greatly underestimated
the number of space secrets that a free and open society such as
the U.S.A. can keep from its people.  What are your comments on
Clark's revelations?

http://www.stargate-chronicles.com

As for your "looney pictures' from space satellites", is this a
reference to the GEOS image of what seemed to be a giant saucer
shaped UFO in space near the Earth which cause some excitement?
My own calculations, which you can find in the UFO UpDates
Archive, conclusively showed that it was in fact the Moon.

With respect.

Nick Balaskas









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   Mar > Mar 2

                 Re: Errol Please Post... This Is Not A Joke

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 19:21:34 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 07:43:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Errol Please Post... This Is Not A Joke


 >Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 17:07:28 -0500
 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Subject: Re: Errol Please Post... This Is Not A Joke
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 01:36:31 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Errol Please Post...This Is Not A Joke
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Sorry to inform you that my close cousin recently sent me an
 >>email, it was supposed to be a funny.

 >>It wound up containing a virus.  I have no idea which of you may
 >>have been sent the mail. It occured when I was eating dinner.
 >>Came back to see my computer running, modem on - sending data.

 >>When I found out what happened, I spent the $25 bucks
 >>it cost to call McAfee.  It was worth it.  Took just a few
 >>moments to correct.

 >Jim-

 >You're very lucky.  The Pretty Park worm can cause your system
 >to become unusable if you try to remove it incorrectly.
 >Information pretaining to this worm virus can be found at
 >http://www.f-secure.com/v-descs/prettyp.htm and includes
 >instructions similar to those you had forwarded.

 >Do _not_ delete files32.vxd until you've made the registry
 >changes listed, and keep in mind that there are two locations in
 >the registry where it might be added and both must be checked.

 >If you delete the .vxd file without making the appropriate
 >changes to the registry and restarting the system you won't be
 >able to run any executable programs on the system, which
 >includes the registry editor.

 >Steve

Thank you Steve:

For those of you who are not confident in such matters, it pays
to call the experts.  The only chage for the 801 number is a
long distance call.  Expect no more than 10-15 minutes at the
most to make the repair.

I chose the $25 fee using the 800 number.  For those who cannot
afford that, and I understand there are many, get yourself a
cheap ($0.05 a minute) service and make good use of it.  It will
cost you no more than ONE DOLLAR for a 20 minute call.

McAfee people are very savvy.  They walk you thu every step.

Jim Mortellaro









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   Mar > Mar 2

                          SPACE_LINK WEB_PAGE Gone

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 19:26:50 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 07:45:45 -0500
Subject: SPACE_LINK WEB_PAGE Gone


Just a short note to let all of you know that I have removed
"SPACE_LINK WEB_PAGE" from the web.

It will no longer be available.

With all the new websites dealing with UFOS and Paranormal
information now available, and more coming daily, I feel my site
will not be missed.

Thanks to those who have visited in the past.

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---








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   Mar > Mar 2

                         Need Copy of McCain on Fox

From: Stephen Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 23:58:11 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 07:51:34 -0500
Subject: Need Copy of McCain on Fox


To the list:

X-PPAC would be very interested in getting a copy of McCain
being asked about the Gersten law suit on Fox.

If anyone taped this, would you please send a copy to X-PPAC.

You will be reimbursed for any expense.

Thank you,

Stephen Bassett

X-PPAC
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814
301-564-1820
exppac@aol.com








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   Mar > Mar 2

                 Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 01:43:30 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:30:10 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO


 >Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 10:53:42 -0800
 >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO Congress
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 01:11:15 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Kathleen Anderson <KAnder6444@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO Congress
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 02:54:52 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO Congress
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:45:35 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the International UFO Congress
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Why do so many people on this list worry so damned much about
 >>>supporting biographies and Curriculum Vitae? Huh? Doesn't what
 >>>the dude have to say matter much more than his CV?
 >>>Who are we to determine who is righteous enough to speak our
 >>>minds and who are not? Seems that is the purview of those who
 >>>put on the show.

 >>Sorry, not sure which comment is yours Jim. I am airing my
 >>opinion for these reasons. And I am in agreement with Robert.

 >>Mr. Reed has never clarified "whom/who" he spoke with at MUFON
 >>in Seattle. As State Section Director I remain clueless. If it
 >>was National UFO Reporting Center and Peter Davenport, that
 >>doesn't work as he was out of the country. There are those that
 >>have contacted the University of Washington and no one can find
 >>a Dr. Reed ever working there. We can't even verify he's a
 >>doctor.

 >>What is so secretive about the location. I hike a lot and would
 >>like to know the general area of the trail. What's to lose? I'd
 >>get abducted so something?

 >>I don't think titles make you an authority in the ufo field but
 >>I take it very personal when someone makes up stories just to
 >>get attention. It wastes my time and tests my patience and
 >>trust. I am speaking in general here. It deludes serious
 >>investigation and makes most of us look like a monkey's a#@.
 >>Excuse my un ladylike language but I get rather irate when
 >>feeling we are being played the fool.

 >>Kathleen Andersen

 >This Reed idiot also claimed he spoke with Peter Davenport.

 >I was one of the first to begin exposing Reed's fraud and in a
 >conversation I had with Peter, he stated that he would have
 >remembered such a call even if it was a "what if" type of
 >calling regarding the recovery of an EBE.

 >Reed is a fraud and was presented with more than a fair share of
 >opportunities to come forward and present his evidence. But as
 >everyone knows, when it came time to put up or shut up Reed
 >wasn't up to the task.

 >Royce J. Myers III
 >eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy
 >http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3  (eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy)
 >http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog (UFO Hall o' Shame)


The only points which I consider important out of all this, is
not the defense of a person whose credentials are suspect, but
defense of:

1) That person's right to speak his or her opinion

2) The right of an entity (conference, etc.) to allow that
    person to voice his opinion in the venue.

It is then up to you to agree, disagree or otherwise boycott the
event.  Nothing more. Nothing less.

My boss Dr. J. Jaime has not been invited to any of these
events.  And look at all his degrees.  In his case, no one even
wishes to hear his opinions.  See what I mean?  No?

Well then, try wincing and feeling sorry for him.  All them
degrees, all that protfolio, Prince among men and no venue to
spit it out.

So much for my Curriculum Vitae theory.

Jim Mortellaro







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   Mar > Mar 2

                    Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 04:26:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:39:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt Proposal - Again!



Hello All,

Ok, Here's the latest and the greatest.

The "abductee" group will be composed of 15 individuals (myself
included.) Out of necessity, (people have careers, families, and
reputations to protect) I cannot reveal their identities on the
open UpDates list. Their identities and locations are known to me.
I will be contacting them privately.

The 15 'control group' (non-abductees) will consist of the
following volunteers. Note, I have left one spot open in case
anyone else wants in on it. (Or I have missed someone! Please
drop me a line if you volunteered and I missed your name.)

  1. Jan Aldrich
  2. Chris Rutkowski
  3. Sean Jones
  4. Mike Woods
  5. Rebecca Schatte
  6. Todd Lemire
  7. Brian Cuthbertson
  8. GT McCoy
  9. Peter Brookesmith
10. S. Miles
11. Laura Miller
12. Mark Cashman
13. Luis R. Gonzales Manso
14. Errol Bruce-Knapp
15.

Listen guys, I know of no other criteria for placing anyone on either
list other than taking people at their word. There really is no other
rock solid way to do it. We will assume that those who claim to have
had a lifetime of UFO/abduction experiences are 'abductees' and that
those who have never had those experiences (or recollections of it)
are not abductees. If we allow ourselves to get stuck debating this
one (albeit important) point this thing will never get done. Please
let me know if I forgot anyone in the control group.

A. Collecting/storing/documenting/shipping of samples.

I need a mailing address for everyone participating in the dust
sampling. I will be sending you a "kit" which will contain several
small _sealed_ and _sterile_ plastic containers as well as some
colored wax for re-sealing the container later.

*Very important!  _Any_ containers that Nick receives that
arrive with a 'broken seal' will be discarded. (That takes care
of identifying tampering by 'border cops' looking for dope!) At
least this way we will know whether they have been re-opened in
transit.

Also included will be a simple 'form' that you can fill out as you
gather your samples. It will ask for basic info such as date sample
was taken, location in home where sample was taken, etc.etc.


I would like to suggest that people who wish to participate in
this dust project do the following:

1)  Wash you hands _well_ and blow them dry if possible. Lysol
antiseptic spray will take care of any little 'buggers' on your
skin.

2)  Using a _new_ roll of Scotch Tape, cut a length no less than
four inches and holding it from the ends only, place it sticky
side down on a flat surface. Gently press down so it picks up
the entire layer of dust.

3)  Break the seal on the sterile container provided, (do not
use any containers that arrive to you with a broken wax seal.
Simply discard it and notify me immediately.) insert the strip
of Scotch Tape with dust into it, and close it. Do not _fold_
the scotch tape. A small colored 'birthday' candle will be
included so that you can 're-seal' the container with a drop or
two of wax along the edge of the container cap. The containers
will be numbered. Just fill in the information requested next to
the corresponding number on the form provided.

4)  Take at least two more dust samples in a similar way.
Collect them from different rooms and from different locations
(for example, off the floor under a bed, off the top of an
undusted door or shelf, etc.). Make sure to identify each
container on the form so we can later determine where each dust
sample was collected from.

5)  Place your three or more dust samples in the bubble envelope
that will be provided and deliver it in person or mail it to
Nick Balaskas at the address below. Please include your name,
address and an e-mail address or phone number on the form. Nick
will contact everyone to ask further questions after he has
first closely examined your dust samples and finished comparing
them with all the others. Nick will be using a high quality
stereo microscope with both low and high magnifications and
equipped with a built in video system to be made available to us
for the duration of the study.

With the video system we would be able to make a complete record
of everything we examined which could then be made available to
hundreds of others so they can verify our findings and catch
anything we may have missed.  Unusual items common to many dust
samples examined would be sent to the scanning electron
microscope for much closer examination and elemental analysis.

6)  Nick will make all findings of this initial dust study
available first to John Velez and all the participants; and
later to all other interested individuals.

Your dust samples can be mailed to Nick at the address below.

Nick Balaskas
Physics and Astronomy
York University
132 Lumbers Building
4700 Keele Street
Toronto, Ontario, Canada  M3J 1P3

FAX:  (416) 736-5516

That's it kids. Considering we don't have a 'budget' for this,
it's as good a job as we can do under the circumstances. If any
one is unhappy or unsatisfied with the methods we have chosen
let me know and you will be removed from the volunteer list.

It's going to take me a week or so to put everything together
and get it out to you guys. I'll post a note to UpDates when I'm
ready to go. In the meantime, please send me your snail mail
addresses privately. Mark the e-mail: Private/dust bunny. Look
for the 'kit' to arrive in the mail shortly afterward.

I want to thank you all for your time and cooperation. It is
appreciated. Who knows? Maybe something 'interesting' will come
out of it! :)

If I've accomplished nothing else, I have somehow managed to
drag that 'White man who speaks with forked tongue,' Brookesmith
out of the horse stables long enough to let us know that
although he is knee deep in dust and dung, he is still alive and
well. <lol>

Thanx again guys.

John Velez
________________________________________________
                         AIC - Abduction Information Center -
                        www.spacelab.net/~jvif/default.htm
                                    jvif@spacelab.net
  "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________








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   Mar > Mar 2

                          Re: The Pelican Writes...

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:16:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:25:25 -0500
Subject: Re: The Pelican Writes...


 >Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 22:27:16 +0000
 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: The Pelican Writes...
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

The Pelican Writes:

 >The Pelican has been wondering, somewhat disingenuously, how it
 >is that different accounts of the same UFO incident can give the
 >reader very different impressions as to what really happened.

 >Take the famous incident of 17 April 1966 when Dale Spaur and
 >Barney Neff chased either a UFO or the planet Venus - depending
 >on which version you read - across part of Ohio and into
 >Pennsylvania. The Pelican has indulged in some ufological
 >exegesis on two accounts of the incident, a credulous one by J.
 >Allen Hynek (1) and a sceptical one by Robert Sheaffer. (2)
 >Together they serve only to deepen the mystery rather than
 >providing enlightenment.

 >So far as the Pelican is concerned, the biggest mystery in this
 >case is: Why did Spaur and Neff chase the UFO - or what they
 >thought was a UFO - in their car?

Hmmmm... pelicanists (named after the "favored" - by some -
recent "explanation" of the Arnold sighting) unite in leaving
out important stuff.

I can appreciate Rimmer's discussion of the Spaur-Neff sighting
so long ago. Certainly there are mysteries.  But for me there
are two parts, not just one. First... what did the officers see
(nearly) above them which began this UFO sighting, and second,
what did they chase. Why not include the initial sighting as
part of it? Of course, Sheaffer, etc., split it into two parts
and argue Venus for the second part.

ANOTHER WITNESS:

Pelican has included some valuable information in his
extra brief summary:

 >However, if someone saw the object, from a different vantage
 >point, being pursued by the police car, then it must have been a
 >Genuine UFO. It so happened that Officer Wayne Huston was
 >monitoring the radio conversation between Spaur and his office
 >in Ravenna. Huston was at East Palestine, Ohio, where he saw the
 >object when the pursuing police car was still about five miles
 >away. He said: "As it flew by, I was standing by my cruiser. I
 >watched it go right overhead. It was shaped something like an
 >ice cream cone with a sort of partly melted down top. The point
 >part of the cone was underneath; the top was sort of like a
 >dome. Spaur and Neff came down the road right after it. I fell
 >in behind them."

 >This is taken from Hynek's review of the case. Sheaffer manages
 >to give an entirely different impression, by rubbishing Huston's
 >testimony. He writes: "It can be shown, however, that Huston's
 >account of the object's approach is internally inconsistent.
 >Huston claims that he first sighted the object when cruiser P-13
 >was about five miles away. But he told Weitzel that the UFO
 >little opportunity to observe the object. If Huston actually did
 >spot Floyd when it and its pursuers were reportedly five miles
 >away and if the object's speed did in fact match P-13's 80-85
 >m.p.h. velocity at this point, Huston would have had the object
 >in view for at least three and a half minutes.">

 >So, did Huston underestimate the time the object was in view and
 >thus get a good look at it, or did he just get a fleeting
 >glimpse and thus get a false impression of the details, or was
 >he telling a pack of lies? This is where we need a good
 >investigator. Both Hynek and Sheaffer rely heavily for their
 >accounts on the work of William Weitzel, who investigated the
 >case for NICAP.

It is amusing to note the failure to apply some logic here, if
Huston was even approximately correct.

In the earlier statement abou the chase Pelican points out that
Spaur and Neff were traveling eastward from Ohio into
Pennslvania. One may _presume_ from the above that Huston was
initially east of Spaur and Huston and that he was looking
_Westward_ when he first saw "Floyd" (the UFO). (Makes me think
of "Bubba" of Gulf Breeze fame.) Anyway, all this time Venus was
low in the east, so how could Huston have been looking at a
stationary Venus and have mistaken that for amoving object
initially to the west? The possible fact that Huston didn't get
a good look at it, whether for a few seconds or for a few
minutes, is of lower important here than the testimony of the
initial sighting direction and that it "flew overhead."

Remember, Sheaffer follows Maccabee's First Rule of Debunking:
any explanation is better than none.

Incidently,  I have met Weitzel. He got high marks on all of his
investigations back in the 60's. (He dropped out of UFO
investigation maybe 30 years ago and has recently returned.)









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Mar > Mar 2

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 9

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 12:27:32 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 15:53:51 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 9


      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 5, Number 9
March 2, 2000
Editor: Joseph Trainor

<Masinaigan@aol.com>

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


SAUCER LANDS ON ANCIENT
PYRAMID IN WILTSHIRE, UK

      "Driver Clive Stevens is seeking the truth behind
mysterious coloured lights he saw over Silbury Hill
(in North Wiltshire, UK) in the dead of night."
      "He said the flashing lights formed the shape of a
flattened oval 'rather like a flying saucer' and he is
hoping other motorists might have spotted them and
tell him what they mean."
      "Mr. Stevens, 25, of Upper Isbury in Marlborough,
was driving home on the (Motorway) A4 past the
Waggon and Horses pub in Beckhampton when he
saw the shimmering blue, green, white and red lights
in the distance."
      "'It looked like a helicopter landing pad on an oil rig
with all the bright lights,' said Mr. Stevens, a consultant
on water softening devices who was returning home
after dropping off a friend in Chippenham," a city about
125 miles (180 kilometers) west of London.
      "He said it was on a clear night with a bright moon
but he could not see people on top of the (Silbury) hill,
just the lights forming an oval which he estimated as
being two-thirds the size of the hilltop."
      "On top of the hill was a whole pattern of lights
in a traditional flying saucer shape.  They were blinking
red, white, green and blue, he said."
      "'I could not tell if it was hovering, or if it was
stationary on top of the hill.  It really scared me because
I was on my own.; there was no other traffic about, and
you hear these stories of alien abductions.'"
      "Mr. Stevens said he was also well aware that the
hill stands in the centre of an area where mysterious
crop circles are frequently found."
      "He said that as he drove past the hill the light
dropped behind the hill, and although he did look in
his mirror, he did not see it again."
      "He added, "I am not frightened to admit I was
scared stiff, and I could not get along the A4 quick
enough.'"
      "Mr. Stevens, a keen military historian, said he
doubted the light could have been from a helicopter
or aircraft. Nor does he think the lights were caused
by hoaxers because they would have had to be on the
end of long poles."
      "'It was very cold on Sunday morning (February 20,
2000), which makes me think that if there were hoaxers
there, they would have needed their heads read,' he added."
      The sighting took place at about 4 a.m.
      "Doug Sheppard, landlord of the Waggon and Horses
pub, said he was in bed at 4 a.m. on Sunday, and he
had heard reports of strange happenings at Silbury.
But, he said, 'I don't know if it's connected at all, but
my telephones went down at the weekend.  When BT
(British Telecommunications--J.T.) came to repair it, they
said it was an exterior line fault.'"
      Silbury Hill is one of the most ancient sites in
Britain.  It's an earthen pyramid that covers five acres
and is constructed of over one million tons of earth,
apparently moved by hand.
      According to Aubry Burl, author of Prehistoric
Avebury, Silbury Hill is an estimated 4,000 years
old and is said to be the burial site of King Kunedha,
a legendary monarch of the Beaker Folk.  The king's
body, clad in golden armor, is said to lie at the
base of the man-made mound.
      Silbury Hill bears an amazing resemblance to the
pyramid of Cuicuilco in Mexico, which geologists
maintain had to have been built before 8,000 B.C.
      Nearby Beckhampton and Abury Hill have been
the site of intensive archaeological efforts recently,
but it is not known if these activities have anything
to do with the landing of the saucer.  (See the
Wiltshire Gazette and Herald for February 25, 2000.
See also Prehistoric Avebury by Aubrey Burl, Yale
University Press, 1979, pages 128 to 136.  Many
thanks to Gerry Lovell of Far Shores for forwarding
the newspaper article.)
(Editor's Comment:  This seems to be Pyramid Week
at UFO Roundup.  See the next story.)

EGYPTIAN MAGAZINE SAYS
A DEAD ALIEN WAS FOUND AT
GIZA IN 1988

      A strange story about the Great Pyramid of Giza
appeared in the March 2000 issue of the Egyptian
magazine Rose El-Yussuf.
      According to the article, in 1988, French
Egyptologist Louis Caparat "discovered a secret room
in the Great Pyramid of Cheops (his Greek name.  The
pharoah's true name was Khufu--J.T.)."
      The alien humanoid "was found in a crystalline
transparent case.  At first the alien appeared to be
hibernating," or in a state of suspended animation.
      Caparat reportedly "also found a papyrus text"
which described Pharoach Khufu meeting with the
alien, who told him that some day his space-traveling
species would arrive from the stars.  The alien
supposedly suggested the design of the pyramid
and persuaded the Egyptians to build it as his
resting place.
      "Caparat sent a message to a colleague in Spain,
Francisco de Braga, a biologist, inviting him to come
to Egypt" to take blood, cell, tissue and DNA
samples from the dead alien.
      But when Dr. de Braga arrived in Cairo, he was
detained by the Egyptian Ministry of State Security
and put on a plane back to Madrid.
      According to Rose El-Yussuf, the dead alien
was taken to a laboratory at an undisclosed location
by Egyptian military intelligence.  (Many thanks to
Wisam Mohammed and Alfredo Lissoni for this
story.)
(Editor's Comment: Take this story with a grain of
salt, readers.  Mysterious dead bodies have been
turning up in the Great Pyramid since Abdullah
Al-Mamun first broke into the structure way back
in 813 A.D.  Abdullah, who was the son of the
famous caliph, Haroun Al-Raschid, hired a crew
of Egyptians who laboriously bored a hole right
through the Pyramid's wall.
      According to author Peter Tompkins, "Some
Arabian authors have reported that Al-Mamun found
in the sarcophagus a stone statue in the shape of
a man.  They say that within the statue lay a body
wearing a breastplate of gold set with precious stones,
an invaluable sword on his chest, and a carbuncle
ruby on his head the size of an egg, which chone as
with the light of day."  See Secrets of the Great
Pyramid by Peter Tompkins, Harper and Row,
New York, N.Y., 1971, page 15.
      On the other hand, there have been a lot of
strange goings-on at the Great Pyramid since 1996,
including secret UNESCO teams visiting, unmarked
military vehicles and black helicopters seen at Giza,
and the recent round of heavy construction..  It's
anyone's guess what is really going on out there.)

TWO CYLINDRICAL UFOs
SIGHTED OVER NAPLES

      On Wednesday, February 23, 2000, "two
cylindrical UFOs were observed circling over a
housing development in Agnano," a section of
Napoli (Naples), the famous Italian seaport city
180 kilometers (125 miles) south of Rome.
      "According to the account in the local
newspaper, the two OVNIs (Italian acronym for
UFOs--J.T.) ascended to a very high altitude in
a zigzag motion, with one rising much faster than
the other.  The two objects fled before onlookers
could take a photograph.  (See the Italian newspaper
Il Giornale of Napoli for February 24, 2000. Grazie a
Edoardo Russo di Centro Italiano di Studi Ufologici
per questo rapporto.)

SILVERY UFO SPOTTED IN
SOUTHERN ARGENTINA

      In early February, Italian businessman Omar R.
went on vacation to Argentina.  While stopping
overnight at the Hotel de Turistas on Lago (Lake)
Verde in Chubut province, about 800 kilometers
(500 miles) southwest of Buenos Aires, Omar
spotted a peculiar-looking object hovering above
the lake.
      "Over the lake hovered a perpendicular silver
metallic disc.  Its surface caught the gleam of the
sun.  It was very shiny, reflecting the bright sun.
The gleam moved over the disc's surface as it
slowly moved across the lake, away from us."
      Omar shot a single photograph with his new
sigital camera.  After transferring the image to a
floppy disc, he mailed it to his family back in
Italy.  The family sent it to the Centro Ufologico
Nazionale (CUN) for analysis.  (Grazie a Alfredo
Lissoni di CUN d'Italia per questo rapporto.)

CRUCIFORM UFO SEEN
IN CENTRAL COLORADO

      On Sunday, February 20, 2000, at 7:40 p.m.,
Michael D. and a friend were driving on Interstate
Highway I-25 from Fort Collins to Denver, Colorado.
As they were passing near the highway exit nine
miles (15 kilometers) west of Platteville (population
1,515), they spotted something strange in the sky.
      "We saw a bright star--a brilliant green light
drop from a cloud above," Mike reported.  "We were
heading south to Denver from Fort Collins when we
saw it.  It was not a meteor..  The person I was with
does not believe in UFOs.  It shocked me, too."
      "The object was huge and in the shape of a
cross.  We were in the high country at an altitude
of about 5,600 feet.  Pretty rural area.," he added,
and they had the UFO in view for several minutes.
(Email Form Report)

STAR DUST--RIDDLE OF THE
MYSTERIOUS RADIO MESSAGE

      The mystery of the Star Dust, the British Avro
Lancaster airliner that disappeared in August 1947,
took a couple of strange new twists this week, as
Argentina's Army and Air Force teams collected
human remains from the newly-discovered crash
site.
      The wreckage of the propellor-engine Avro
Lancaster Mark III Tudor airliner was discovered in
January on a glacier on Mount Tupungato, one of
the highest peaks in the Andes.
      On Wednesday, February 23, 2000, a team of
17 Argentine Army soldiers, under the command
of Lt. Col. Ricardo Bustos, "spent eight hours looking
for human remains" at the crash site, packed them in
trunks, and loaded the trunks aboard mules for the
precipitous climb down the mountain to their base
camp.
      Meanwhile, a special survey team of the Argentine
Air Force took digital photos of the 600-meter crash
site, plus video footage, in an effort to determine
what happened to the plane.
      The Star Dust was on the last leg of her flight
from London, traveling from Punta Asuncion in
Argentina to Santiago de Chile when she vanished
shortly after 2 p.m. on August 2, 1947.
      Aboard the aircraft, an RAF Avro Lancaster
bomber of World War II which had been converted
for civilian use, were eleven people, including six
passengers and five crew members.
      The crew consisted of pilot Capt. Reginald
Cook, a former RAF Bomber Command pilot with
hundreds of hours' experience in flying Lancasters;
First Officer Norman Hilton-Cook, Second Officer
Donald Checklin, Radio Operator Dennis Harmer
and Stewardess Iris Adams.
      Among the passengers was Paul Simpson, 44,
a "King's Messenger," or personal diplomatic envoy
for King George VI (father of Queen Elizabeth II--J.T.)
      The wreckage was found on a glacier at 5,500
meters (18,700 feet).  Mount Tupungator is a
stratovolcano approximately 6,550 meters high
(21,484 feet) and is located about 500 kilometers
(300 miles) west of Buenos Aires, the capital of
Argentina.
      Argentine Air Force experts under Major Luis
Estrella speculated that the Star Dust had struck
the glacier three times when it crashed, which
resulted in the debris being scattered over such
a wide area.
      Another theory is that a sudden loss of
elevator control caused the Lancaster to
"nose-dive right into the glacier."
      "The British Ministry of Aviation's 1948
crash report hypothesizes that ice buildup on
its wings had brought down the plane."
      Ice clogging the airplane's pitot tubes might
have caused a false reading in the altimeter,
causing Capt. Cook and his co-pilot to think they
were higher than they actually were.
      A mid-air explosion has not been ruled out,
either.
      Investigators are now looking into a strange
radio message that Radio Operator Dennis
Harmer sent off just before the airliner crashed.
The transmission was picked up by the Fuerzas
Aereas de Chile (FACh), the air force of Chile.
According to FACh, Harmer transmitted the same
message three times in Morse code.
      The message was SSTENDEC.
      One theory is that Harmer's message was
shorthand for "Steep Descent."
      Another theory is that Star Dust had made
radio contact with a ship out in the Pacific
Ocean--the S.S. ten Deyck.
(Editor's Comment:  That's a possibility!  Is such
a vessel listed in the Lloyd's Registry for 1947?
We'd appreciate hearing from any of our readers
on this one.  Meanwhile, many thanks to Jim
Hickman for the update on the Star Dust case.)

GALILEO COMPLETES THIRD
FLYBY OF IO

      The spacecraft Galileo completed its third flyby
of Jupiter's volcanic moon Io on Tuesday, February 22,
2000 at 2:32 p.m. Universal Time (UT).
      "Galileo passed to within 199 kilometers
(124 miles) of the surface of Io, the innermost of
Jupiter's four large satellites."
      "'We're thrilled that the flyby went well,' said
project manager Jim Erickson.  'If all continues as
planned, this raw data will round out our Io photo
album and the wealth of information gathered during
the Io flybys back in October and November (1999)."
      "Scientists hope that the flyby will allow them to
see changes in the surface of the dynamic moon
since the pictures taken during the two close flybys
in October and November.  During those flybys,
Galileo saw several volcanic eruptions in progress,
including one that generated a fountain of lava
1.6 kilometers (one mile) high."
      Galileo's flyby last week was not without
incident.  A surge of high-energy radiation in
Jovian space caused two "false resets" of
Galileo's main onboard computer.
      A third reset "put Galileo into safe mode for
most of Thursday," February 24, "The software
that prevents such computer glitches from triggering
safe mode had been" turned off so Galileo could
begin transmitting the data back to Earth.
      The spacecraft resumed its transmission of
flyby data to Earth on Sunday, February 27, 2000.
      Next up for Galileo is a flight to Ganymede,
another one of Jupiter's larger moons.  The
spacecraft will perform a flyby of Ganymede, which
is as big as the planet Mercury, in May 2000.
      Scientists are very much interested in
Ganymede's unusually strong magnetic field.
It is almost as strong as Earth's, which is very
unusual for a small world.  Indeed, Ganymede
is the only other world in our solar system to
display a dipole magnetic field like Earth's.
(Many thanks to SpaceViews for February 28, 2000
and Science Frontiers for March/April 2000, "The
Ganymede magnetic Paradox," page 2.)

NEAR FINDS A GEOLOGICAL
ANOMALY ON EROS

      The Near Earth Asteroid Rendezvous (NEAR)
spacecraft continued its orbital survey of the asteroid
Eros last week.
      NEAR arrived in orbit around the asteroid, which
is 33 kilometers (20 miles) in diameter, on Monday,
February 14, 2000.  The spacecraft's arrival on
Valentine's Day was most appropriate, since the
asteroid is named after Eros, the Greek god of love.
      On Thursday, February 24, 2000, at 5 p.m.
Universal Time (UT), NEAR "fired its thrusters" in
"what project officials called a successful manuever.
The Orbit Correction Manuever (OCM)" dropped
the spacecraft's periapsis (low point of orbit--J.T.)
from 321 kilometers (195 miles) to 200 kilometers
(125 miles).  NEAR's apogee (high point of orbit--J.T.)
remained at 366 kilometers (277 miles).
      "NASA hopes to lower NEAR into an orbit as
low as 50 kilometers (30 miles) above Eros by May,
where it will remain for several months for close-up
observations.  After swinging back out into a high
orbit for global mapping work late in the year, NEAR
will return to Eros by the end of the year, flying within
a few kilometers of the surface and possibly touching
down on it at the end of its mission next year."
      Also last week, NASA turned on NEAR's X-Ray
and Gamma Ray Spectrometer and Laser Altimeter.
The spectrometer will be used to determine the
asteroid's elemental composition, while the laser
altimeter will be used to survey the topography of
Eros.
      While flying around the asteroid, which is
essentialy a large mountain drifting through space,
NEAR photographed an interesting geological
anomaly.  The spacecraft's instruments picked up
signs of a "layering" of deposits on the surface.
      "Project scientist Andy Cheng thinks the
layering could be evidence that Eros was a remnant
of a much larger parent body that broke apart."
      "' The global (layered) feature may be a signature
of ancient geologic activity (for example, volcanism--
A.C.) on the parent body of Eros,' he said. 'The size
of the putative parent body and the time at which it
would have disrupted, no obe knows, and all we are
saying is that it must have been larger than the
present diameter of Eros.'"
      "'The NEAR data shows that Eros has an older
surface than Gaspra (an asteroid visited by Galileo
back in 1991--J.T.).  Gaspra is less heavily cratered
because it has not been exposed to (meteor)
bombardment as long,' said Cheng.  'However, since
we are still uncertain about collision rates in the
asteroid belt at present and in the distant past, we
cannot exactly state an age for either asteroid.'"
(Many thanks to Space Views for February 28, 2000.)
(Editor's Comment:  This layering effect sounds
really weird.  If Eros is primarily composed of basalt,
then that means the ground was periodically covered
by fast-flowing, soupy a'a lava flows from vent or
shield volcanoes on the parent body.  If the layers
are sedimentary rock, like sandstone or shale..wow!
That means Eros's parent body was a world like
Earth, with oceans, lakes and seas.)

from the UFO Files...

303: A VISITOR FROM THE
         GARDEN OF ALLAH?


      Located in eastern Turkey, about 320 kilometers
(200 miles) southeast of Ankara, the wine-making
province of Cappadocia is an ancient land.  Back in
300 A.D., the province belonged to the Roman empire
and was ruled by a prefect or colonial governor.
      The strangest incident in the long history of
Cappadocia took place in February of 303, when
Diocletian was the emperor of Rome.
      At that time, the city of Caesarea Maritima was
the capital of Cappadocia, and Fabricius had just
been appointed the prefect.  He was very eager to
please Diocletian.  Due to the gradual disintegration
of the Roman empire, outlying provinces such as
Cappadocia were slipping out from under the
emperor's control.  In many lands, the prefects
were hiring private armies and treating Imperial
lands as their own personal estates.  And Diocletian
wanted to make sure that he got his majority share
of the revenues from his Cappadocian vineyards.
      So, when Diocletian's decree against Christians
was issued, Fabricius enforced it with particular
vigor.  Among the people executed during the first
round of summary arrests were the parents of
young Dorothea of Caesarea.
     Dorothea was a young unmarried woman given
to trances and mystic experiences.  She spent a
lot of time wandering the Ihlara Valley (near modern
Urgup, Turkey), which, like Sedona, Arizona, USA,
has a large number of weird rock formations.  She
was always talking about an "enchanted garden"
to which she was a frequent visitor.
      In January 303, during the severe cold of a
Turkish winter, news of Dorothea reached the ears
of Fabricius, and he ordered her arrest.
      So there was Dorothea, at her parents' small
house in Caesrea, cooking kiremit kebap (roast
lamb with tomato, mushroom and cheese--J.T.)
when the Roman soldiers knocked at the door.
The centurion came right to the point.  "Are you
a Christian?"
      Dorothea nodded.  "I am.  Jesus is my true
husband, and I see him often in the garden."
      "The woman is a lunatic," a soldier muttered.
      "Lunatic or not, the prefect has issued a warrant
for her arrest," the centurion replied.  "Take her to
the citadel."
      Upon her arrival in the citadel's prison, "she was
stretched upon the rack, and offered marriage if she
would sacrifice" to the gods of Olympus, "or death if
she refused."
      Dorothea refused, saying, "Jesus is my only
spouse, and death is my desire."
      When he learned that she had turned down all
offers of an arranged marriage, Fabricius thought,
Well, if she doesn't like men, then perhaps she
prefers women.  And he sent two women of that
persuasion who had been Christians but recanted
to "seduce" the prisoner.
      The ploy backfired.  "But the fire in Dorothea's
heart rekindled the flame in theirs and led them
back to Christ."
      "When she was set once more upon the rack,
Fabricius himself was amazed at the heavenly look
she wore and asked her the cause of her joy."
      "Because I have brought two souls back to
Jesus," Dorothea replied, "And because I will soon
be in the heavenly garden rejoicing with the angels."
      The full force of Roman law was brought against
her.  Her jailer wrapped a festus, a leather strap
studded with iron , around his fist and punched her
repeatedly in the face.  Then iron plates were heated
in a brazier, and, as soon as they turned red, were
applied against her ribs and thighs.
      The outcome of her trial was pre-ordained.  Like
her parents, she was sentenced to be executed.
Hearing the verdict, she cried out, "Blessed are
you!  Blessed are you, O Lover of Souls, who calls me
to Paradise and invites me to your nuptial chamber."
      On February 6, 303 A.D., Dorothea was marched
out of the citadel to the main plaza of Caesarea.
Onlookers booed and jeered as she walked along,
wrapped in her heavy woolen cloak, surrounded by
Roman soldiers.  Among the crowd was a Roman
lawyer named Theophilus, who had heard her
testimony in court and had thought it absurd.
      "Dorothea!" he shouted, "Send me some
apples and roses from your enchanted garden!"
      She stopped for a moment, turned to face
Theophilus and said somberly.  "Very well.  You
shall have them."
      Dorothea climbed the ladder to the wooden
scaffold and quietly knelt.  The centurion who
served as the executioner finished sharpening
his sword.  The crowd of three hundred onlookers
gathered around the scaffold.
      And then it happened.
      A figure appeared at the foot of the ladder.
It was a boy about 10 or 12 years old with
curly blond hair.  On this cold February morning,
he wore nothing but a skimpy tunic, but the
cold didn't seem to bother him.  He carried a
wicker basket in his hands.
      The amazing thing about this apparition
is that it was witnessed not by Christians but
by pagans.  Those nearest the ladder let out a
cry of astonishment.  Some shouted that it
was Apollo.  Others pointed at the basket and
claimed it was Ganymede, the cupbearer of
the Olympian gods.
      Dorothea looked down at the curly-haired
boy.  Some form of wordless communication
passed between the two.  Then, removing her
shawl, Dorothea leaned forward on her knees
and awaited the fatal stroke.
      Thunk!  The young woman's head rolled
across the scaffold floor.  The boy with the
basket vanished.  A louder clamor went up
from the crowd.
      That evening, the lawyer Theophilus was
at the city baths.  The main topic of conversation,
as might be expected, was the apparition.  He
too had seen the boy with the basket but he
didn't want to talk about it.
      And then the gatekeeper tapped Theophilus's
shoulder.  "There's somebody here to see you."
      As he entered the anteroom, Theophilus
turned pale.  Standing there was the same boy
he had seen that morning at the foot of the
scaffold.  The boy lifted his basket, saying,
"Here are the items you requested."
      Heart pounding, the lawyer peered into the
basket.  He saw three roses and three ripe
apples of a strange golden color.  Fruits which
could not possibly have flourished during a
Cappadocian winter.
      Blinking in disbelief, he extended his
quivering hand toward an apple.  Could it be
real?  His fingertips caressed the smooth
skin.  It was!
      Like a man in a dream, Theophilus
lifted the apple to his lips.  He bit into it and
was both stunned and delighted by its weird
pleasing taste.
      The boy said, "She awaits you in the
garden."
      And then he vanished.
      According to the Acta Sanctorum, "he was
converted to the faith and then shared in the
martyrdom of St. Dorothy."
      Since Vatican II, the Roman Catholic Church
no longer recognizes the story of Dorothea and
Theophilus as completely factual.  Mainly because
there's no mention of Dorothea in the Eastern
Orthodox Church calendar.
      But maybe they're looking at the wrong
scripture.  Here's a selection from al Quran (the
Koran)--Sura 56: 11-20.
      "Those are the favored ones
        In the Gardens of Bliss;
        A throng of the ancients,
        And a small band of the latecomers,
        Upon beds interwoven with gold;
        Reclining upon them, facing each other.
        While immortal youths go round them,
        With goblets, pitchers and a cup of limped drink.
        Their heads do not ache from it,
        And they do not become intoxicated.
        And with such fruits as they care to choose."
      Perhaps Dorothea of Caesarea should consider
becoming an Islamic saint.  Because it appears
that she visited the Garden of Allah about three
hundred years before the birth of Mohammed."
(See Pictorial Lives of the Saints by John Gilman
Shea L.L.D., Danziger Brothers, Baltimore, Md.
1887, pages 82 to 84.  Also The Quran--A Modern
English Version, translated by Majhid Fakhry and
Mahmud Zayid, Garnet Publishers, Reading, UK,
1997, page 349.)

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paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."  See you
in seven days.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2000 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or
in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of issue in
which the item first appeared.

*********************************************************
IMPORTANT Please Read:
======================

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---------------
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Every 3.6 seconds somebody starves to death. 3/4 of the
deaths are children under 5. By visiting the Hunger Site
and clicking on a button you can donate free food.

There is absolutely no charge to you for the donation -
the food is paid for by sponsors.

Do this once a day (no more) and help make a difference!
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or use the Sighting Report Form at:

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Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of the UK UFO Network Bulletin,
AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences,
UFO + PSI Magazine also available, plus archives of
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                     Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:54:00 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 18:19:38 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8


 >Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:04:55 +0000
 >From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
 >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >      UFO ROUNDUP
 >Volume 5, Number 8
 >February 24, 2000
 >Editor: Joseph Trainor


 >STAR DUST--THE MYSTERY
 >DEEPENS

 >      On Tuesday, February 15, 2000, the Air Force
 >of Argentina dispatched a full-scale expedition to
 >Mount Tupungato, a lofty peak in the Andes
 >where the Star Dust, a British airliner with four
 >propellor engines, vanished back in 1947.
 >      The wrecked fuselage of the Star Dust and
 >two of its Rolls-Royce Merlin engines were
 >discovered in January by Juan Carlos Mouso,
 >an Argentinian aviation enthusiast, and mountain
 >climbers from the 11th Mountain Infantry Regiment.
 >      The purpose of the expedition is "to solve the
 >mystery of what caused a British Lancaster aircraft
 >to crash 53 years ago."  The Star Dust disappeared
 >in a snow squall over the Andes on August 2, 1947
 >while flying from Asuncion, Argentina to Santiago
 >de Chile, the last leg of its flight from London.
 >      The Star Dust was an Avro Lancaster Tudor,
 >which had been a Royal Air Force (RAF) heavy
 >bomber during World War II but was converted to
 >civilian use after the war.
 >      Eleven people were on board the aircraft,
 >including a crew of five and six passengers.
 >      The crew consisted of the pilot, Captain
 >Reginald Cook, a former RAF Bomber Command
 >pilot with hundreds of hours of experience flying
 >Lancasters; First Officer Norman Hilton-Cook;
 >Second Officer Donald Checklin; Radio Operator
 >Dennis Harmer and Stewardess Iris Adams.
 >      Among the passengers was Paul Simpson, 44,
 >a "King's Messenger," or personal diplomatic envoy
 >of King George VI (ffather of Queen Elizabeth II--J.T.)
 >      "'This is an expedition requested by the
 >investigating federal judge,'" Alfredo Manuel Rodriguez,
 >"'for a special Argentine armed forces patrol to find
 >the remains and clear up what caused the accident,'
 >said military spokeswoman Gabriela Cantinga."
 >      "The crash site, littered with the plane's
 >shattered fuselage and three frozen torsos was
 >only discovered in mid-January by a five-man team
 >traversing the 21,484-foot (6,500-meter) Tupungato
 >volcano in western Mendoza province," about 500
 >kilometers (300 miles) west of Buenos Aires, the
 >national capital.
 >      The wreckage is spread across a glacier on
 >Mount Tupungato at an altitude of about 17,600
 >feet (5,500 meters)
 >      "The cause of the disaster remains under
 >debate.  Official reports raised the possibility of
 >pilot negligence while others have theories that
 >it was a result of sabotage in a competitive airline
 >market."
 >      "'We've never really known what happened.
 >It's always been suspected from the very start
 >it was sabotage,' said John Parker, brother-in-law
 >of pilot Capt. Reginald Cook."
 >      "'It could have been engine failure or navigational
 >errior as well, of course,' said Parker who spoke to
 >Reuters from his home in Melbourne, England."
 >      "Strewn about the (crash) site are pieces from
 >two of the Rolls-Royce Merlin engines, a propellor,
 >woolen jackets, a shoe with RAF on the sole, green
 >berets presumably belonging to the crew and a
 >tattered passport."
 >      The remains of four humans were also found at
 >the site, leaving another seven unaccounted for.
 >Included in the seven is royal envoy Paul Simpson.
 >      Other theories concerning the Star Dust include
 >      (A) The Lancaster was struck by lightning.
 >      (B) The Lancaster was destroyed by a bomb
 >with a detonator rigged to go off when the aircraft
 >climbed above 22,000 feet.
 >      (C) The Lancaster was shot down by the
 >Saturn-shaped UFO seen at Bauru, Sao Paulo
 >state, Brazil ten days before the mishap.
 >      (D) Aboard the aircraft was Lieutenant Naomi
 >Selff, the U.S. Army nurse who reportedly told
 >mortician Glenn Dennis about the aliens being
 >autopsied at Roswell, New Mexico in July 1947.
 >      The mysterious mid-air explosion and crash
 >of the Star Dust took place one month after
 >the incident at Roswell.  (Many thanks to Jim
 >Hickman for this news story.)
 >(Editor's Comment:  Another possibility is that
 >the bomb was meant for the royal envoy.  Who
 >Killed Paul Simpson?  Sounds like a novel by
 >Agatha Christie.  Round up "the unusual suspects"--
 >Winston S. Churchill, Clement Attlee, Anthony Eden
 >and the Duke of Windsor.  Wow!  Hercule Poirot
 >would have a great time with this whodunit.)







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                        Remove From UFO UpDates List

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 18:13:36 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 19:52:14 -0500
Subject: Remove From UFO UpDates List


Dear Errol.

Please remove my name from the UPdates mailing list.

Thank you for sharing with me the vast amount of information you
have posted to this point.

I am retiring from ufology as a Researcher and Investigator.

I will still have my active email address if you or any of the
members of this list wish to contact me directly in the future.

I have enjoyed being a part of the list and wish each and every
one of you (the suscribers) well in your endeavors to gain the
ultimate disclosure in this field.

Thanks again Errol.

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---








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                     Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 21:25:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 15:08:03 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8


 >Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:54:00 -0300
 >From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:04:55 +0000
 >>From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
 >>Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>     UFO ROUNDUP
 >>Volume 5, Number 8
 >>February 24, 2000
 >>Editor: Joseph Trainor

 >>STAR DUST--THE MYSTERY
 >>DEEPENS

 >>     On Tuesday, February 15, 2000, the Air Force
 >>of Argentina dispatched a full-scale expedition to
 >>Mount Tupungato, a lofty peak in the Andes
 >>where the Star Dust, a British airliner with four
 >>propellor engines, vanished back in 1947.

<snip>

 >How about the most plausible explanation. The aircraft hit the mountain
 >while in cloud or during bad weather. Just like thousands of others
 >have. Happens all the time.

 >Don Ledger


Absoultley, Sir,  I could see the wheezing Poirot saying:
"Hastings, (who is also wheezing due to the altitude) this is
not a seemple crash but a part of somtheeng much largere."

GT McCoy  (an Agatha fan thanks to my wife)








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                                  Reed Hoax

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:13:42 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 07:32:26 -0500
Subject: Reed Hoax


As many of you know, Jonathan Reed and his partner Robert Raith
are at the International UFO Congress conference in Nevada
trying to sell their scam to the public.

If anyone is going to IUFOC, I would love to have some photos of
Reed and his accomplices for my website. Please let me know if
anyone out there happens to get some pictures of these dirtbags.
Thanks!

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III

eXpos: The Watchdog of Ufology
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3  (eXpos: The Watchdog of Ufology)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog (UFO Hall o' Shame)








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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #341

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 05:48:12 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 07:34:17 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #341


Apology to MW #341 (For March 4, 2000)

The skies above me flash with light that most won't see; they're
filled with fright. Or -- listening to some skeptibunky they
permit . . . become its flunky. Wallowing in crass denial, they
avoid their test and trial they could use to find the grace for
satisfaction sans distaste.

Sold a bill of goods they need to live their lives on callused
knees, they take the word of those they know will keep them
stupid, calm, and slow. THOSE dismiss imagination, refuse its
valid protestation, and depend upon *convenient* culture. Our
dreams become the fare for vultures.

There is more to life, I KNOW, that wheels, darts, and hotly
glows, beyond the limit some impose to keep their high ground,
don't you know. Its perceived by many thousands, spans the years
that NUMBER thousands -- left its traces on the ground and on
some film that's most profound.

It's chiseled into ageless stone. It's evidence we're not alone,
and PROOF denied by charmless scholars addicted to their
churlish dollars . . . proof retreating with our pride in
ridicule and phony fright. We don't hear the real story, so we
won't earn our stab at glory, with our heads shoved, hard,
between . . . our hapless cheeks -- it's, yes, obscene.

We are *WARNED* what would occur if folks are *shocked*, *upset*
-- *disturbed*. Wanton panic would ensue, mass suicide -- come
all unglued! Riot's in the streets occurring, markets crashing,
cultures lurching -- institutions are involved, and chaos rules!
It all dissolves. . .

Cities razed in mass confusion, darkness claiming harsh
intrusions, mobs of people looting, stealing, shocked, assaulted
-- senses reeling . . . culture's web would come apart (!)
insanity in fits and starts (!!), and we'd DESERVE that awful
harvest, sowing as we had in earnest, if that doom's in fact the
case, and we're a pointless "washed up" race. But, there's no
proof that that occurs, and much more proof we're unperturbed.

Remember, then, the middle ages. Turn way back -- historic
pages. Think back to a time well known when *other* lands we
didn't know, and stuff of legends filled our minds -- the
western lands "new stars" that time. Hearing *stories* of new
races, FOREIGN to us, no relation, it's just like now, that
other time. Did WE "freak out" and lose our minds? Did western
culture fall to ruin? No, it didn't. Something's brewing.

And please don't think me over callous, filled with venom,
spite, or malice, but the FEW that freak that way, and lose
their minds to chaos, say -- kill themselves or worse . . .
unblinking. . . good RIDDANCE to their blood, I'm thinking!
Subtract them from the gene pool, cousin! They're not worth
bemoaning, fussing . . . any culture comes apart (?) if folks
from space are found (?) be smart (!) -- it DESERVES to "crash
on down" and crumble on that fresh new ground!

. . . Makes you wonder who hangs ON to old ways that are not so
sound. Who hangs on to their pollutions -- glad corrupted
institutions? Those, the few, professing doom! Those, who
forecast shadowed gloom! Those, the ones, the few who lose, when
truth is offered unconfused. Most of us would profit grandly
I've a feeling, some understanding. Read between the lines,
yourself, and lead yourself to better health.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Perhaps I didn't make this clear -- if our culture implodes on
an admission of the actuality of an extraterrestrial
intelligence, it flatly DESERVES to implode. I've a suspicion
that this *admission* could have been made around 1947 (the year
before I was born), and the *implosion* would, now, be well
behind us. We'd also be living in the asteroid belt, and our
respected Earth would be a garden -- but you knew I was going to
say that.

Additionally, don't use Orson Well's "War of the Worlds"
broadcast to feather your whiny, skepti-feebroid, and nay-saying
bed. That 1930's broadcast was inadvertently HAND TOOLED to
incite panic, and the reaction of the people to it was no
different than a genuine broadcast informing its listeners that
the *Red Chinese* (say) had landed in a small American town and
were killing and pillaging an actual hapless citizenry. Under
those circumstances (?), I submit that we performed passably
well! Remember, minimal DEATHS occurred in THAT regrettably
misunderstood debacle, and FEWER suicides. Finally, we all
accept that we are at our best when conditions are at their most
trying -- let's move on into the truth . . . though the heavens
fall -- we'll make better heavens.

Restore John Ford! <You knew I was going to say that, too.>


--
~~~~
EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.
http://www.alienview.com
                  **Updated Every Saturday**
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at a
skepti-feebroid stake.








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                         Re: UFOs, Or A Light Show?

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 19:30:36 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 07:47:57 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs, Or A Light Show?


Oberg on Shuttle Spritzing

 >From UFO UpDates - Toronto


 >Source: ABC News

 >http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/ufo990217.html

 >UFOs, Or A Light Show?
 >Science Battles Wishful Thinking

 >By Jim Oberg
 >Special to ABCNEWS.com

 >As humans explore space, it's reasonable to imagine that other
 >beings in the universe are doing the same. Encountering
 >explorers from other planets have been a staple of science
 >fiction for decades.

 >Videotapes from space shuttle missions have persuaded some folks
 >that NASA astronauts have already encountered alien visitors.

 >On the space shuttle mission STS-48 in September 1991, a TV
 >onboard Discovery spotted moving white dots suddenly changing
 >direction when a flash of light appeared. Although nearby debris
 >frequently appears on shuttle videos, the combination of flares,
 >streaks and changing directions grabbed imaginations.

 >Answering a congressional query the following month on behalf of
 >a curious constituent, NASA had four Houston experts - including
 >one astronaut, astronomer Karl Henize - examine the videos.

 >"The objects seen are [Discovery]-generated debris, illuminated
 >by the sun," they reported. "The flicker of light is the result
 >of firing of the attitude thrusters on [Discovery], and the
 >abrupt motions of the particles result from the impact of gas
 >from the thrusters."

 >That didn't wash for some viewers, who believed they
 >were seeing alien visitors or Star Wars-like battles.

 >Popular Interpretation

 >Enthusiasm for the UFO interpretation of space pictures isn't
 >restricted to a narrow band of crackpots, as any Web search
 >demonstrates. Mainstream writers and major TV networks also
 >promulgate these misinterpretations. Aside from enhancing the
 >public's paranoia about government cover-ups, it can have a
 >poisonous effect on public support for space exploration if a
 >substantial portion of voters becomes convinced by such theories
 >that space experts, astronauts and scientists are lying to them.

On the contrary, the effect on the citizenry is to demand MORE
exploration of space in order to prove or disprove the
truthfulness of lack of it, demonstrated by our fearless elected
political leaders. When the truth be known and understood by
all, only by continued exploration will it be so.

Don't be fooled by the hubris of the good Oberg.  Les Auberge
Des Duex Signa, or is that Des Duex Pelicans... Forgive my
Puerto Rican.

 >Such space tapes are no surprise to NASA; the agency shrugs them
 >off as just one more phenomenon of space flight.

But what else is there for NASA to do?  Admit to additional
errors, I mean other than inches to centimeters?

 >The STS-48 images were being collected as part of an ongoing
 >NASA study of unusual lightning.

You guys got that part right.  Good men.  Stout thinking.

 >The project was coordinated by NASA scientist Otha "Skeet"
 >Vaughan, in Huntsville, Ala. He has collected and analyzed about
 >500 hours of tapes over two decades of shuttle flights, probably
 >watching more space video than anyone else.

Coordinated by whom?  I've shot skeet, it ain't nuttin special,
prefer trap and sporting clays myself.  Ah, but that makes me
one a them postal shooters who must be watched closely. Anyone
who carries a nug (I am also dyslexic) must be a bad guy.

 >Just Debris

Just hubris.

 >Vaughan, who retired from NASA last month, said such dots appear
 >frequently. "They're an ordinary part of space flight," he says.
 >"It's obviously just more shuttle debris."

 >Astronauts aboard the STS-48 mission agree.

 >Mission specialist Mark Brown says ice formed on the shuttle's
 >main engine bells after the remaining fuel was dumped in space.

 >"These crystals would break free of the engines and float around
 >the shuttle," he says. "When illuminated by sunlight they looked
 >like small diamonds floating in space, disturbed only when the
 >maneuvering rockets fired - the plumes from the rockets would
 >hit them and send them off in different directions."

 >Shuttle co-pilot Ken Reightler says: "We saw a lot of this on
 >STS-48 because we had a dump nozzle that was leaking." The same
 >nozzle leaked on the shuttle's next mission and "created the
 >same shower of ice particles - but this time apparently no one
 >misinterpreted them as UFOs."

But of course, and as the dump nozzle was leaking, it leaked in
such a manner as to move the spacecraft .... oops, it didn't
move. Well, uh, OK, then it leaked in such a manner as to leak
just in time, whilst spritzing, uh ...never mind.

 >'Fireflies'

Signa, Swans, Pelicans.

 >Small particles flaking off manned spacecraft have been around
 >since John Glenn saw "fireflies" outside his capsule in 1962.
 >Apollo astronauts saw them so often they were nicknamed "moon
 >pigeons." A NASA study in 1971 traced them to propellant leaks,
 >water dumps, pyrotechnic separation and other ordinary events.

Swamp gas.  And let's keep your moon out of this.

 >Yet claims for an extraordinary interpretation of the STS-48
 >images persist, coming from respectable and seemingly rational
 >people. Jack Kasher, a physicist from Nebraska, has published an
 >exhaustive analysis showing why they cannot be debris. "The only
 >feasible explanation," he concludes, "is that they actually were
 >spacecraft out in space away from the shuttle."

 >Mark Carlotto, an imaging specialist in Massachusetts, published
 >a 1995 report in the Journal of Scientific Exploration, claiming
 >that "beyond a reasonable doubt" the objects could not be
 >explained as known phenomena.

 >Shedding Light

Whilst darkening mind, intellect and inspiration.  Not to
mention imagination.

Damn it, I told you not to mention imagination!

 >Two factors - sunlight and the steering-jet pulses - explain the
 >videotape.

Three actually, add a totally closed mind.

 >The shuttle TV cameras observed lightning on the night side of
 >Earth. But as the shuttle circled toward the day side, it rose
 >into sunlight even while the camera remained fixed on the
 >still-dark horizon behind it. So objects near the shuttle
 >suddenly become illuminated - and it's precisely at sunrise that
 >the most famous "shuttle UFO videos" show the appearance of
 >these dots.

 >The autopilot normally fires the shuttle's steering jets to keep
 >the craft on course. Telemetry readouts from STS-48 show exactly
 >such a jet firing at the time of the mystery pulse.

 >Space junk and thruster gas are a lot less exciting than alien
 >visitors and space battles, so the popularity of UFO
 >explanations for such videotapes will persist. But if recent
 >studies prove anything, it is that the less one knows about
 >space flight, the more likely one is to swallow the idea of
 >space shuttles spotting UFOs.

When my dad was a young man, he would stand in front of the
mirror, eyes sharp and piercing, and recite Shakespeare.  "To be
or not to be .. " he would recite the soliloquy from Hamlet.

He is to this day, an inspired man.  Genuinely interested in
those whose indomitable spirits led to great discoveries.  I
remember his telling me the story of Christopher Columbus over
and over again. From when I could remember remembering, he
always said it the same way.  I must've asked pop to "Tell me
the story about Christopher Columbus, Daddy.  Please!??"  a
hundred thousand times. And off he'd go. I could never get
enough.

What that did of course, was prompt my little brain to love the
adventure of discovery.  Even scientists, Old Obe G. Canobe, are
allowed to and in fact, do occasionally have, inspiration.  One
scientists can look at another's work and see Shakespeare.
Another can only see the equations without the philosophical
implications.

That's what a Ph.D. is SUPPOSED to impart.  Such great knowledge
about the subject that the owner of said knowledge lives his
subject. It's a part of him.  It is him. Like the guit box was
to Hendrix. Doesn't mean he's right, nor does it imply he is not
right. It implies that if he's been properly educated and has
the experience to go with the book knowledge (the inspiration,
the flight of the mind into hitherto uncharted areas) that some
credence should be applied at least to the possibilities. And it
shows that what comes out, like with Hendrix, was beauty,
whether or not you dug it.

Unfortunately for us all, the Ph.D. programs do not always
provide such. And in addition, the owners of such wondrous dried
skin of the lamb, with all the fancy sh*t writ all over it, do
not always properly support anything but the knowledge of where
and how to obtain the information. What's the formula?

This, in lieu of, "What are the possibilities."  No imagination.
Imagination has a place in science.  Just like in Hamlet, or in
astronomy or cosmology. To be inspired means to allow for
possibilities other than those which are as plain as that schoze
on your face, Mr. Oberg. Uh, no offence, but I've been meaning
to speak to you about that.

Shoot, my dad would make a better scientist than you could ever
hope to be.  And only because people like you lack that one
ingredient... imagination.  Well, maybe another.  An open mind.
Well, maybe another. An intellect which integrates well with the
rest of you.

"Can you please forgive a poor old man for having no eyes to see
with, no ears to hear with, all these years?"

Of course Mr. Scrooge.

Now about this Oberg cat...

Dr. J. Jaime Gesundt






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                          The MUFON Ontario Website

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 14:12:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 14:12:50 -0500
Subject: The MUFON Ontario Website

http://www3.sympatico.ca/updates/mufon/index.htm


Thanks,

Errol Bruce-Knapp
Webmaster MUFON Ontario





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                          Filer's Files #09 -- 2000

From: George A. File <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 11:30:05 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 14:24:29 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #09 -- 2000


McCain and Cosmonauts Curious


Filer's Files #09 -- 2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,  Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
March 4, 2000,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. - Chuck Warren Webmaster.

SENATOR JOHN McCAIN INTERESTED IN UFOs

William P. LaParl reports that on Fox News, February 29,2000,
at 12:45 PM EST during a live feed: John McCain was just asked
a question about the lawsuit from Peter Gersten to open UFO
records from the military?  Before the news people pushed
McCain into laughing with them about "aliens," surprisingly,
McCain immediately said he was "very interested in the
subject," and mentioned a series of Arizona sightings from a
couple years ago that remained "unexplained."  Apparently,
these were the- Phoenix "V" Lights of March 1997. Thanks to
Bill La Parl. wil247@mix-net.net.

RUSSIAN COSMONAUTS CLAIM UFOs ARE REAL

Cosmonaut Alexandr Baladin stated that "flying saucers" have
come into close proximity to the MIR space station as well as
the Baikonur Cosmodrom.  He added there is sufficient evidence
to warrant a scientific study of the phenomenon, and that it is
time that world governments officially acknowledge the UFO
phenomenon's existence.  "General Vladimir Ivanov, former
commander of Russia's Military Space Forces, recalls that three
objects flew at a considerable altitude over  Baikonur
Cosmodrome and were picked up on radar.  There is no way they
could  have been airplanes." insisted the cosmonaut.  Baladin
disclosed December 23, 1998, at Brazil's First International
Ufology Forum, that he and fellow cosmonaut Musa Manarov had
seen UFOs.  During docking operations between his space capsule
and the MIR,  Baladin saw a glowing object a short distance
away.  Manarov managed to capture the strange phenomenon on
videotape, that was  shown during the UFO congress in Brazil.
Baladin claimed that the recording and other  evidence
presented during the Congress, "must  be studied by an
international scientific commission."  Baladin insisted that
the Russian military has a great contribution to make  to UFO
research, giving as an example the multiple-witness case at the
Kaputsin Yar missile base, whose personnel sighted a
semi-circular object flying at low altitude lighting up the
bases facilities with a powerful searchlight in June 1989.
"Many of my old comrades, who are now working at top-secret
military facilities, acknowledge  having seen UFOs.  Thanks to
Rubn Sobrino.

NASA UFO VIDEO FOOTAGE

I have been examining videotape purporting to document
encounters between UFOs and U.S. and Russian spacecraft.  One
scene shows the space shuttle just below the Russian space
station MIR.  Watching these videos it is difficult to obtain
accurate measurements of distance and size.  However, the
viewer can see three discoidal shaped objects approach from the
right. Two of the objects appear to fly slowly past the MIR
while a third object slows to a stop and hovers in the vicinity
of one of the solar panel arrays.  I'm not certain what these
objects are but they do not appear to be spinning ice crystals
or floating shuttle parts.  They seem to create their own light
or fireball rather than being a reflection from the sun.  They
do not look like space ships depicted in the movies.  However,
the exact design of alien space ships traveling in space is
apparently unknown.  There is some evidence that they may use
advanced nano technology techniques to shrink the size of their
craft.  We have numerous eye witness accounts of a small light
coming in from space.  Hovering and appearing to grow from the
size of basketball to a large craft.  Later they can be seen
shrinking or disappearing altogether.  Our scientists are now
predicting we are developing similar technology.  You will
carry your car around in your pocket.  When your ready to
travel you set it down and it grows into a full sized car.  The
NASA Shuttle films show numerous strange objects in space.
They may not look the way anyone expects a space ship to
appear.  A small object moving through space would
theoretically be able to accelerate and travel at higher speeds
using less fuel.  A great deal more research is needed.  Thanks
to Tom Sheets and ISUR who provided me with the tapes.

US MILITARY SATELITTES CAN SEE HEAT SOURCES

The January 10, 2000 issue of "Aviation Week & Space
Technology", page 28, "US Milsats Dodge Y2K" has this
interesting paragraph:  "Officials would not comment on Defense
Support Program capabilities, but the satellites probably
detected many new 'targets' -- large fireworks displays -- as
the new year's arrival progressed around the globe.  DSP
infrared sensors are designed to detect hot, long-burning
events such as missile launches, but can 'see' relatively small
heat sources." Editor's Note: We assume that UFO propulsion
systems would provide enough heat to be present on the
satellite images.  Space Command admits to picking up as many
as a dozen uncorrelated targets per day,  that are unknown
targets not kept in their space data base.

DECIPHER OF GENERAL RAMEY'S ROSWELL MESSAGE

Neil Morris writes that Christopher Farmer was able to decipher
some of the message held in General Ramey's hand and
photographed by Bond Johnson in 1947.  The General was posed in
his office for the photo in front of the Roswell crash debris
fifty years ago.  Chris was able to spend considerable time
with the photograph and utilizing new commercial software has
deciphered one line of the message.  Chris states,  "I was able
to conclusively come up with the following in Line 2 of the
message.   It isn't exactly the way you have it on your website
and I quote.  The first word of that line which is not
indisposed to be analyzed is "extract".  The second word is
"the"  So the line actually reads:

EXTRACT THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK AND CONVAY ON TO THE"  (base
at Ft. Worth). We looked at that line by the pixels so we hope
this helps.  When I have time I will look at the other
segments.  Thanks to Neil Morris and Chris Farmer.
http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/index.htm  Editor's Note:
Victims and a wreck seem to rule out a balloon and infers some
type of craft crashed in 1947 at Roswell.  The story below also
confirms this theory.

BRIMBERRY OVERHEARD GENERAL RAMEY ON ROSWELL

Researcher Tom Carey reports, "I was able to interview Mr.
Marion Brimberry a little over six months ago.  It was clear to
me that he was sorry that he ever said anything about it in the
first place. It was like pulling teeth to get him to say
anything to me. In brief, all he would tell me was that, back
in late 1947 or early 1948 when he was stationed at Ft. Worth
Army Air Field, he was part of a flight crew waiting on the
tarmac for a B-29 to taxi up for boarding.  In the group
waiting was General Roger Ramey who was talking to some of the
officers in Brimberry's crew.  Brimberry told me that he
overheard Ramey tell one of the officers that, "It [the weather
balloon story] was the biggest lie they ever made me tell.",
and that the real stuff was really, "Out of this world." That's
basically all that I could get out of Mr. Brimberry who is a
very reluctant witness.  Thanks to Tom Carey

"THE MAJESTIC 12 REPORT"

Tim Cooper's writes concerning "The Majestic-12 Report".  The
controversy within the United States UFO community and to some
degree, the United States government itself, is whether in the
late 1940's a super-secret extraterrestrial technology
intelligence collection and research and development program
was created by a special classified executive order and whether
such an entity exists today."  One could say that the military
attempted communications with extraterrestrials as early as
1924 with the Army's Signal Corps radio experiment documented
in the archives of the National Security Agency when William F.
Friedman, father of American cryptology, first reviewed graphs
and images taken from a crude television recording of what has
been reported as coded transmissions and images from Mars.
(http://home.sprintmail.com/~rigoletto/reports/tim_cooper_mj12_
report.htm).  For further updates and reports. Please see
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rigoletto/Sanctuary_Of_The_Birds.ht
m  ..   Thanks to Tim Cooper and Robert Collins.

NEW JERSEY FLYING TRIANGLE

WESTWOOD -- Janet writes, "I work nights for a local newspaper
and February 27, 2000, I left work at around 12:50 AM and near
the overpass at Route 4, I saw three dark helicopters in the
cloudy sky."  As I got closer to Westwood, I saw a large craft
the size of a passenger plane flying very low and following
Forest Avenue coming towards me.  It was moving too slow for a
normal aircraft, so I slowed my car down to a crawl.  It flew
right over my car and I could see that it was a large flying
triangle.  There were tiny lights at the corner, but it was
just silently hovering up there.  As I approached a large
cemetery on Forest Avenue I saw a hole in the clouds with a
very bright yellow-orange light shinning down.  The hole closed
up in the clouds and I saw what appeared to be a kind of
searchlight coming out of the craft.  The searchlight played
back and forth over the clouds, appeared to detach itself from
the plane, and sort of withered away.  As I drove home, I saw a
second black craft with large extremely bright, white lights on
it.  I could see this craft from underneath was shaped like an
arrow.  There was a long body and wings that were at the very
end of the body.  There were three brilliant lights along the
body and four on the wings.  I could see the bluish gray metal
that had an almost plastic look to it between the lights.  The
craft descended and I could see the structure was like a cigar
and the bent wings were of the same shape.  The lights went all
the way around the weird looking tube.  The craft turned and
flew along Forest towards the triangle shaped craft.  I checked
and moon was in its last quarter so this could not have been
what I saw.  The lights were moving and much too brilliant
yellow-orange and circular shaped to be the moon.  Thanks to
Janet. Editor's Note: The witness was very close to the Oradell
Reservoir that has a history of UFOs flying in and out of the
water since the 1960s.

RED EYED CREATURE NEW JERSEY DEVIL?

FrogyNurse writes,  "In December my friend and I got up in the
early morning to travel when we saw a black van parked on the
side of a dark rural back road" I noticed the van had no
license plates.  As we passed, the lights of the van came on
and it started to follow us really close.  Then it would back
away and turn off its lights.  We were a little afraid the
driver might have criminal intentions.  It came close again but
finally stopped.  A minute later we saw the figure of a person
about four feet tall dressed in black standing in the shadows.
It also started to follow as we passed.  It had a bushy tail
that was a least half it's size.  The eyes were what I saw the
best.  They were RED.  As I looked back, it also vanished like
the van.  These were not like deer eyes when the lights shine
on them; these were glowing red eyes.  Thanks to Jon,
FrogyNurse@aol.com, and sightings@mindspring.com.

Editor's Notes: Strange half-human red eyed creatures have been
seen in New Jersey for hundreds of years.  They are called the
New Jersey Devil.  Reports like this are reported regularly and
sometimes the creature is reported wearing a hooded robe.

NEW JERSEY BOOMERANG SHAPED HOVERING UFO

PINE HILL -- On February 17, 2000, the witness reports, "I was
driving with my girlfriend in a suburban area when we spotted
two alternately blinking lights the sky at 9:30 PM.  One was
yellow and the other white.  My girlfriend asked me what it was
and I told her it was a tower, because it was completely
motionless in the sky.  Then I remembered that there was no
tower there, so we both took a second look.  "What the #!@! is
that?" we both repeated.  As we drove closer a boomerang-shaped
craft came into focus.  I began to slow down, but the driver
behind me didn't even notice the craft and was beeping at me to
keep driving.  It was a black metallic ship in an extremely
aerodynamic shape almost V shaped.  We were both scared.  The
color of the metal was a glossy gray black and unlike any kind
of metal I've ever seen.  It hovered motionlessly as I drove
under it between its two lights.  The boomerang seemed menacing
hovering above us not more than three blocks above us.  It was
the most unbelievable amazing technology and I still can't
believe the way it looked.  What the hell was that thing?  I
rendered this image for you as I am a commercial artist.
Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC www.ufocenter.com

OHIO FLYING TRIANGLE

WILMINGTON -- I was driving down Route 73 three miles south of
Wilmington on February 19, 2000, and saw a black triangle ahead
of me at 6:24 PM.  I saw another one to my right and both were
moving south-southeast in the partly cloudy sky.  They were
both moving surprisingly slow just above the horizon.  Their
speed was about that of a cruising jet, but they were flying
way too low for a jet.  Suddenly the first one just
disappeared.  The second triangle sped up so fast I was
startled.  It was so fast I had trouble keeping my eye on it.
The black triangle shaped objects were no bigger than a small
airplane.  When they disappeared in front of me, I estimate
they moved twice as fast as any aircraft I've ever seen.
Although, with the craft being so low in the sky it's hard to
estimate speed.  What really caught my attention was how fast
it sped up.  From slow to very fast almost instantly.  There
was no sound.  Thanks to the National Reporting Center.

ILLINOIS UFO INVESTIGATION OF POLICE SIGHTINGS

John Alexander of NIDS responds to Philip Klass' suggestion
that the January 5, 2000, sighting was Venus.  "Famed skeptic
Philip Klass in his March Skeptics UFO Newsletter predicts
"that the Venus explanation will be rejected by many, if not
all, of the 'witnesses, and by the NIDS investigators."  This
is one point that Phil and everyone else involved in this case
can agree on.  The reason is that Klass' explanation that what
observers saw was the planet Venus sitting low and bright in
the southeastern sky doesn't fit the facts.  However, the
explanation is consistent with the debunker's view that any
answer is better than the UFO researcher's answer.  All you
need do to support your conclusion is to use selective facts,
or if they don't fit, create your own facts to support the
case.  This is exactly what Klass has done in suggesting the
Southern Illinois case of 5 January 2000 is misidentification
of the planet Venus.  His technique is interesting.  In the
report Klass includes quotes from the NIDS investigation that
is posted on their web site.  This is to lead the reader to
believe that he is quoting directly and accurately from witness
testimony.  However, such is not the case.  For instance, Klass
quotes Witness #2 as stating "It was stationary the entire
time."  In fact, Witness #2 states the object was coming slowly
towards him and then made a flat turn to the SOUTHWEST.
Similarly with Witness #3 Klass fails to mention that the
object gradually accelerated.  A larger problem looms with the
testimony of Witness #4.  He claims the object went to the
NORTHWEST.  Even Klass has Witness #6 stating the object was
headed towards the NORTH.  And so it goes.  Witnesses have
placed the object to the NORTH, NORTHWEST, SOUTHWEST, but Klass
wants us to believe the object was really Venus in the
SOUTHEAST.

But there is an even bigger problem with Klass' solution.  At
4:00 AM, the approximate time of the first sightings, Venus was
to the Southeast BUT 5 degrees BELOW the horizon.  Obviously,
Klass also discounts all of the witness testimony about size,
shape, and identification of lights on board the object.  While
determination of altitude at night is admittedly difficult, the
difference between a large object within a few hundred feet of
the observers, and a planet or star is easily discernible.  For
the record, the investigators who conducted the interviews were
both seasoned law enforcement veterans with over 50 years
experience between them.  They were hired for their experience
in investigation, not because they were UFO buffs. " Yes Phil,
we did not seriously consider Venus as a possible explanation,
and 'for very good reason,' " Venus did not fit the facts and
was not visible."  Thanks to John Alexander and NIDS.

ILLINOIS - WERE THOSE UFO LIGHTS ET?

ROCKFORD - Mike DuPre of the Gazette Staff wrote, "Whatever
else they might have been, the orange lights that Jeff Coan and
his family saw over Rockford, Ill., the night of February 11
constitute a "close encounter of the first kind".  What makes
the Coans' experience more than an interesting, perhaps
embellished, story is the 7 1/2-minute videotape that
16-year-old Joel Coan shot of the five lights as they flew in
formation and in maneuvers around each other?  They were all
flying so strangely, and they were so brightly oranges.  They
were not that high, no more than a couple of thousand feet."
The Coans were not the only folks who saw the lights.  Rockford
media reported several sightings on Feb. 11, 12, and 16.  Peter
Davenport, director of the National UFO Reporting Center, said
Monday that his organization had received as many as two dozen
calls reporting the Rockford sightings.  Furthermore, similar
events were observed on or near the days in question in
Florida, Arizona, Oregon, and Texas, he said.

Karla Soeprasetyo' family who live in Rockford's northeast side
were also witnesses.  "On February 16, Soeprasetyo's four
children--ages 9, 12, 13, and 15--were going to bed about 9:30
p.m. when they called their mother to look at the lights in the
sky.  Soeprasetyo, 34, and her children saw two sets of orange
lights: first one of five, then a diamond-shaped formation of
four.  "After the first one faded away, the second came in,"
she said.  Soeprasetyo is concerned about police saying they
had no reports of sightings because she called the police to
report hers.  "The children were upset, so I called the local
police," said Soeprasetyo, who also shot videotape of the
lights.  "I talked to the police department, but they didn't
know what they were.  Earl Wilson, operations supervisor of the
Rockford Airport control tower, said he was not aware of radar
confirmation of the phenomena reported by residents. But, he
added, "We see a lot of stuff that isn't airplanes."  Most
aircraft carry radio transponders that enhance their radar
images and report information, Wilson said.

A Gazette reporter watched Coan's video but was unable to view
Soeprasetyo's. Most of the Coan video shows five small white
lights with four of them seemingly in tandem as two pairs.  The
lights seem to perform maneuvers, flying around each other,
lining up, and hovering.  At one point, Joel Coan was able to
zoom in, and two of the lights appear as orange balls.  To
Coan, the lights appeared to "fly in intelligent formation".
Soeprasetyo thought that each set of lights, which she and her
family saw for several minutes, was attached to a large object.
"This was big, huge," she said.  "The lights were bright orange
and connected See pictures: Gazette EXTRA Janesville, Wisconsin
2/22/00 http://www.gazetteextra.com/ufo022200.html

ARIZONA TWO SETS OF WITNESSES REPORT CYLINDERS

PRESCOTT VALLEY -- Two sets of witnesses spotted cylinder
shaped UFOs on February 22, 2000.  My husband had told me of a
"UFO" sighting he had seen earlier, but I wasn't sure whether
to believe him or not.  A few days later, at 6:00 AM, my
husband was just leaving for work and he darted back into the
house and told me to come look!  I saw two cylinder shaped
objects, rotating in a circular motion at the top only with
orange X-shaped lights on the base of each one.  They were
traveling about 20 M.P.H. northeast across Prescott Valley,
towards Mingus Mountain.  We could only see the X-shapes with
binoculars and I also grabbed the camera to take pictures, but
they only captured a single "orange light" for each object.
One at a time, the objects eventually disappeared out of sight
as they neared a mountain full of low lying clouds.  My husband
is a machinist, and I am a secretary.  We are both are 35 years
old.  Two of our three children, 15 and 10, also witnessed the
sighting.  They were as excited as we were.  None of us ever
would have believed in a "UFO" until now.

On February 22, 2000, another witness reports, "I woke up at
around 6:00 AM, hearing my mom and dad exchanging words that
had the content of camera and binoculars."  I got up, went
outside in the drizzle, and looked up, and I saw two objects
that seemed to be very large.  "They glowed near the top and on
the bottom were orangish fiery color lights in the shape of a
big X".  It was a flying Coke can rotating at the top with the
shape of X lights at the bottom.  They moved to the northeast
and at a distance, seemed to gain more speed and then they
flickered away.  Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC
www.ufocenter.com.  Editors Note: Similar craft were seen over
Italy the next day.

CALIFORNIA TRIANGLE

FREMONT - Walter Sheets sends a report from BF on his March of
1999 encounter with a black triangular object shortly after
10:00 PM.  He was sitting in his car with the sunroof open
watching a softball game under the stadium lights.  As he
looked up he noticed a black triangle slowly cruise across the
sky at a fairly low altitude.  He noticed a dim light in the
bottom center of the object.  The glow from the stadium lights
shown on the craft so he could see the actual triangular body.
As he watched, the craft made an 'L' turn without stopping or
any deviation in its speed.  BF watched as the craft flew
slowly on and disappeared.  Within about 5 minutes, a
helicopter appeared and hovered in the area.  Thanks to ISUR
and Walter Sheets tangosix@webtv.net

MEXICO UFO SEEN BY 14 POLICE OFFICERS

MEXICO CITY -- A low flying UFO was reportedly seen by officers
of the Secretariat of Public Safety as it maneuvered over the
northern part of Mexico City in the early morning hours of
February 14, 2000.  It was seen between 2:20 and 3:13 AM mostly
by police officers.  Due to the time of day, it was evidently
not seen by many civilian witnesses and did not cause any
alarm.  Thanks to Georghe Filerun, and CNI  News.

UK SILBURY HILL UFO LANDING SPOT

SILBURY HILL - Driver Clive Stevens is seeking the truth behind
mysterious color lights he saw over Silbury Hill the ancient
monument in Wiltshire in the dead of night.  He said the
flashing lights formed the shape of a flattened oval �- rather
like a flying saucer �- and he is hoping other motorists might
have spotted them and tell him what they were.  Mr. Stevens,
25, of Upper Isbury in Marlborough, was driving home on the A4,
when he saw the shimmering blue, green, white, and red lights
in the distance.  It looked like the helicopter-landing pad on
an oil-rig with all its bright lights said Mr. Stevens.  Phone
lines in the area were disrupted by an external line fault.  No
one knows for sure why the large Silbury Hill was built in the
distant past.  Thanks to the Wiltshire Gazette, Feb 25 2000
Gerry at Far Shores http://www.farshore.force9.co.uk

TWO CYLINDRICAL UFOs SIGHTED OVER NAPLES

NAPLES -- On Wednesday, February 23, 2000, "two cylindrical
UFOs were observed circling over a housing development in
Agnano," a section of Napoli (Naples), the famous Italian
seaport.  "According to the account in the local newspaper, the
two OVNIs the Italian  acronym for UFOs ascended to a very high
altitude in a zigzag motion, with one rising much faster than
the other. The two objects fled before onlookers could take a
photograph.  (See the Italian newspaper Il Giornale of Napoli
for 2/24/00.) Thanks to Edoardo Russo di Centro Italiano di
Studi Ufologici and UFO Roundup Vol. 5  #9, 3/2/00, Editor Joe
Trainor  Editor's Note: It appears the cylinders are taking a
tour of the world, they were also spotted over Arizona.

PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET of some of the best UFO shots available from
US Navy Commander Graham Bethune and data on their propulsion
systems, only $10.00

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Find out, "What you need to understand before hiring any real
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
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                     Nick Pope's Weird World - Feb 2000

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 19:07:23 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 14:37:38 -0500
Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World - Feb 2000


Welcome to February's column, with its usual mixture of
news and gossip on ufology, the paranormal, and anything
else that catches my eye.


The Encyclopedia Of Extraterrestrial Encounters

Ronald D. Story, editor of the classic The Encyclopedia of UFOs,
is hard at work on another project, aimed at putting together a
follow-up book entitled The Encyclopedia of Extraterrestrial
Encounters. It will contain a huge range of data and will
include details of classic alien contact cases, theories about
the phenomenon and profiles of leading experiencers and
investigators. Even though it's over twenty years old now,
Story's original 1980 title is still an invaluable reference
tool for researchers. It's going to be a tough act to follow,
but the aim is to produce something even more broad-ranging than
this previous book. Watch this space for more details.


UFOs On Film

Now out on DVD is Ultimate UFO! - a compilation of 250 UFO film
clips from 26 countries. Also included on the twin DVDs are a
selection of documents obtained under the US Freedom of
Information Act, together with some of the controversial MJ-12
papers. There are also links with a selection of websites, and
informed commentary from Peter Robbins, Michael Hesemann and J.
Antonio Huneeus. But it's the film clips that will be of most
interest, I suspect, and these include footage from Mexico, Gulf
Breeze and from NASA. The DVDs contain over five and a half
hours of material. Check out www.ufocity.com for order details
and further information on this product.


Alien Toys

Anyone who collects UFO/alien-related toys or who wants to give
an unusual gift should check out www.shadowboxinc.com for
details of a wide range of fun products. Model UFOs,
glow-in-the-dark alien figures, posters and even a reproduction
of the UFO crash that allegedly took place at Roswell.


Sci-Fi On TV

Talking of Roswell, Sky One are now showing Roswell High - a US
sci-fi series that takes as its start point the premise that a
UFO did crash at Roswell in 1947, but that the aliens survived
and escaped. The story follows the (human looking) children of
these survivors, whose powers bring them to the intention of
various alien hunters. The show runs on Thursday nights at 8pm.
Channel Five have scheduled the sci-fi series First Wave - about
an alien invasion conspiracy - in the same Thursday evening
slot, so sci-fi fans should take their pick, set their videos
and write angry letters to TV schedulers. At least BBC 1 have
The X-Files on Wednesday nights, repeated on Saturdays. I hope
everyone caught the eagerly-awaited episode Triangle, which ran
on 19 January, and featured time travel and a kiss between
Mulder and Scully. Well, sort of.


Sea On Europa?

The chances of finding extraterrestrial life may just have been
given a boost. Data from NASA's Galileo space probe suggests
that below the icy crust of Europa - one of Jupiter's moons -
there may be a vast, salty ocean. The discovery stems from the
detection of directional changes in Europa's magnetic field. The
cause of this is almost certainly electric currents: ice is a
poor conductor but salt water is a very good one. Most
scientists believe that water is perhaps the key factor in the
development of life, so there's a possibility that life could
have developed on Europa, especially if there are hydrothermal
vents on the ocean floor. Nobody is suggesting that this would
be intelligent life - we're probably talking about little more
than microbes - but the implications of even this would be
immense.


Universe

One of my best Christmas presents was the book Universe, which
accompanies the acclaimed series of the same name, made by
Pioneer Productions and screened on Channel 4 in the UK and The
Learning Channel in the US. Written by Heather Couper and Nigel
Henbest it's packed with informed and up to date comment on
astronomy and cosmology, and contains a truly awesome selection
of photographs - many from the Hubble Space Telescope. It's
published by Channel 4 Books. Check out www.macmillan.co.uk or
any good bookshop.


The Martians Are Coming

What are the chances of anything coming from Mars? A million to
one? Well, maybe it's a little more likely than anyone thought.
The scientific community is still debating the significance of
ALH 84001 - one of around a dozen meteorites known to have come
from Mars. Some scientists believe it shows evidence of
fossilised bacteria, while others think that what was found
could have chemical but not biological causes. But even those
who think they've found evidence of biological activity are
split as to the origin of the material. Some believe they've
found fossilised Martian bacteria, while others think that there
could have been terrestrial contamination. At a recent
conference organised by the American Astronomical Society it was
suggested that if life did once exist on Mars, life on Earth
could actually have been seeded when this life was carried here
on meteorites. If it's true, we're all Martians!


Alien Big Cats On Film

On Tuesday December 28 the Western Morning News ran a front page
story about the emergence of a piece of film footage that may be
the strongest evidence yet that mystery big cats are stalking
the British countryside. The video was taken in 1994 in a clay
mine near St Austell, by Roy Taylor, a Cornish councillor, but
emerged only during the making of a Carlton Westcountry TV
documentary, Tracking the Beast of Bodmin, also screened on
December 28. The tape shows a black feline creature which Mike
Thomas from Newquay Zoo said was similar to a leopard or a
panther. The animal was estimated to have been between four and
a half and six feet in length. Mr Taylor had previously kept the
film secret because he didn't want people to hunt down and kill
an animal which hadn't hurt anyone, and only came forward now
because he believed that the animal would no longer be in the
area, given the time that had passed. Cryptozoologist and
naturalist Trevor Beer, author of a number of books including
The Beast of Exmoor: Fact or Legend? is also against the idea of
hunting down these animals, which he believes originate from the
escape or deliberate release of animals from private
collections. But the release of the film is likely to renew
calls for official action: the Ministry of Agriculture,
Fisheries and Food investigated in 1994, and I'd been involved
while investigating UFOs for the MOD, because of the possible
connection with the animal mutilation mystery. I'll keep you
posted.


Deep Impact

Science Minister Lord Sainsbury has announced the establishment
of a task force to look into the danger posed to the Earth from
comets and asteroids. The team is to confirm the nature of the
hazard, identify current UK activities in this field of study
and advise on future action. The team (Dr Harry Atkinson,
Professor David Williams and Sir Crispin Tickell) will report to
the British National Space Centre, whose Director General will
report to the Minister by May 31 2000. The danger from so-called
Near Earth Objects may seem remote, but it's a case of low
probability, high consequence: this is how the dinosaurs were
wiped out, and it's worth bearing in mind that the small,
comet-like object that exploded in the atmosphere above
Tunguska, Siberia, in 1908, struck with the force of ten million
tons of TNT. If such an object struck London, the entire city
would be destroyed. I'll Keep you posted on this extremely
important story. For further details check out
www.ds.dial.pipex.com/spaceguard or just search on "spaceguard"
for the Spaceguard UK website.

Nick Pope's three books, Open Skies, Closed Minds, The Uninvited
and Operation Thunder Child are available from all good
bookshops. His UK publishers are Simon & Schuster. In America,
The Overlook Press publish his books in hardback while Dell
Publishing produce paperback editions.








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                                Re: Reed Hoax

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 03:04:16 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:18:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Reed Hoax


 >Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:13:42 -0800
 >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >Subject: Reed Hoax
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >As many of you know, Jonathan Reed and his partner Robert Raith
 >are at the International UFO Congress conference in Nevada
 >trying to sell their scam to the public.


Royce,

Since people seem to think that a person whose credentials and
basic back ground information doesn't check out, or can't be
verified should be listened and paid attention to, I would like
to make a proposal.

I propose the following list of speakers for the next
conference... after all they would dovetail nicely into some of
the audience's speaking tastes.

First guy on the list would be the dude from up North who was
claiming that he was part of the NASA shuttle program and even
supplied NASA phone numbers.  He unloaded story after story
about various insider revelations, even putting up his own web
site with his tales and storys.

Naturally, everybody knows that when anything is posted on a web
site, its an absolute truth, never to be doubted. The dude was
investigated and found out to be a phony, AND admitted (when
confronted) that everything he said was not true.  He would
probably be high up on some peoples idea of the perfect
conference speaker.

We should invite the purported NASA engineer who was unloading
tales and storys about how supposed space scientist insiders
were telling him about how they were receiving ET signals, how
on Jan 24th 1997, the earth would get blanketed with ET signals
which would begin a new day for humanity.  Even though none of
the information turned out to be true, he would be a top
candidate for the speaking/conference tour.

I recall the one guy (Noodle?) who was claiming various mass
landing dates during the same time period.  Even though none of
his claims ever came true, he would be another top candidate.

Then we had all the people who were unloading the
Yellowbook/Redbook/ Christ is an ET tale, mixed with the claim
that on April 24th 1997, mass ET landings would happen in the
desert SW.  None of this happened and the information turned out
to be bogus, BUT wouldn't these people be interesting speakers
at the conference?

We could invite the people wagging tales and storys about how
the Republicans and Democrats were going to make the ET/UFOs are
real disclosure during the 1996 Presidential election.  Never
happened but gee, these same people who like Reed, would
probably find these people even better yet.

We could invite all the authors and writers who interpret
Nostradamus. They were the ones who claimed last year that
during the 9th month of 1999 the great terror would come from
the sky.  These same theorists looked up and used every calender
known to man (which included one that the 9th month of 1999
ended on Oct 10th) and it never showed up. Never mind that these
people were wrong.  It just makes them more appealing to some
people.

We could mix a little religion theorists into the pot.  You
know, the ones who were claiming that Armageddon would happen no
later then 1975, then 1979, then the early 80s, then 1989, then
1994, then 1999, and now 2000 and beyond.  Hey, just because
they were wrong doesn't mean that we shouldn't eagerly listen to
every word out of their mouth.  :)

Lastly we could invite some of Richard Hoaglands intelligence
community sources who were unloading tales and storys about an
ET landing to happen on a mountain top last December.  Even
though it never happened, they would probably be enthralling
speakers to some people.  While we were inviting them, we could
invite Hoaglands NASA sources who were claiming that when the
MARS rover (buggy, or whatever the thing was) was actually going
to land on July 21st, not in early July when it in fact did.   I
am sure they could unload an even more enthralling tale then we
have previously heard.

Gee, why should we even bother with speakers whose credentials
can be checked out such as Stan Friedman, Kevin Randle, Jerry
Clark and the many others?  We could fill up every conference
with fictional story tellers and tale bearers feeding us tales
and storys that tickle our ears.

Some people say that this and other conferences are all about
entertainment.  Who knows, they may be right.

cheers,

Robert







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                           Giant Rock Sheds Slice

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:09:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:09:47 -0500
Subject: Giant Rock Sheds Slice


Source: http://www.emissaryoflight.com/giant_rock.htm

Before and after images are at the above site.

ebk

-----

The High Desert Star newspaper,
Wednesday, February 23, 2000

LANDERS, CA - Before Monday morning, Giant Rock, was considered
by many the largest boulder in the world. It is now two
boulders. A slice of the rock fell off the boulder at 8:20 a.m.
Monday, exposing a gleaming white granite interior.

In ancient times Giant Rock was held sacred by the Native
peoples of the Joshua Tree, California area. So sacred in fact
that only the chief was allowed to go near it. Everyone else had
to wait nearly a mile away while the Chief communed with the
spirits of the "Rock People" who had prophesied the day when the
Mother would split open and a new era would be revealed. Most
other traditions have pointed to this time in our history as the
awakening of the Divine Feminine, to a world based upon
compassion and peace. Now that Giant Rock has split, many people
believe that the prophecy has been fulfilled.

-----

Giant Rock was also the meeting place for the UFO 'Contactee
Movement' in the fifties and sixties... vis

-----

'The Encyclopedia of UFOs'

Edited By
Ronald D. Story

J. Richard Greenwell
Consulting Editor

Published 1980 by

Dolphin Books
Doubleday & Company, Inc.,
Garden City,
New York

Page 149


Giant Rock Space Conventions

Between 1954 and 1970, the major annual event in the world of
UFO contactees and their followers was the Giant Rock Space
Convention, convened by George W. Van Tassel (1910-78). Van
Tassel, himself a well-known contactee. was operator of the
Giant Rock Airport, located seventeen miles north of Yucca
Valley, California, on the Mojave Desert. Here it was that the
Space Convention assembled, generally in autumn.

UFO contact enthusiasts would gather for two or three days
during the convention in an atmosphere reminiscent of the camp
meetings of old, parking campers or pitching tents on the
airport grounds under the desert sky, perhaps a thousand people
(in the best years of the convention) would, during the day,
hear a nonstop series of speakers and, during the cool evenings,
enjoy campfire discussions of contacts and wait for signs of
recognition by the Space People themselves. It was widely
rumored in contact circles that the latter were aware of these
meetings and their importance for their work toward Earth; they
would, it was said, acknowledge the assembly by flashing lights
or flying in formation over the lonely airport.

During the day, most of the major contactees and
contactee-oriented theoreticians could be heard. Orfeo
Angelucci, Frank Stranges, Gabriel Green, and Daniel Fry were
regulars. In the isolated, intense setting - in which people who
usually find themselves a singular and often ridiculed minority
were now the majority community - their messages had an
unexpected ring of power. During the day, numerous UFO and
cognate groups would have booths set up where literature could
be obtained, and pins, bumperstickers, pamphlets, and books were
on sale. Giant Rock was, then, a real axis of the contactee
movement in its heyday.

By 1970, however, attendance had severely fallen off; Ufology,
while far from dead in either its scientific or spiritual
aspects, had taken other forms than the 'classic' contactees and
their narratives, told virtually as sacred histories, to which
Giant Rock catered. The conventions were not held after that
year.







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                 UK 'Changing Paradigms - Vision Unlimited'

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 11:43:02 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:13:58 -0500
Subject: UK 'Changing Paradigms - Vision Unlimited'



Dear Colleagues,

If anyone fancies attending a rather unique conference in the UK
with a wide variety of speakers and topics, may I suggest you
check out this one for this coming April care of:

www.1664.org.uk/milagro

Many thanks,


Philip.











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                           UFOs in China and Japan

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 17:20:52 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 11:56:12 -0500
Subject: UFOs in China and Japan


Dear Colleagues,

Can anyone supply addresses, snail mail or e-mail, of UFO
researchers or UFO organisations in either China or Japan. If
you could I would be most grateful.

Many thanlks,

Philip Mantle.
pmquest@dial.pipex.com







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                         Re: UFOs in China and Japan

From: Giuliano-Jimmy-Marinkovicc <9a4ag@9a0tcp.ampr.org>
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 19:03:08 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 14:08:10 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs in China and Japan


 >From: Philip Mantle <pmquest[19]@dial.pipex.com>
 >Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 17:20:52 +0000
 >Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 11:56:12 -0500
 >Subject: UFOs in China and Japan

 >Dear Colleagues,

Hello Phill.

 >Can anyone supply addresses, snail mail or e-mail, of UFO
 >researchers or UFO organisations in either China or Japan. If
 >you could I would be most grateful.

 >Many thanlks,

 >Philip Mantle.
 >pmquest@dial.pipex.com

Of course Phill...

The best info about World Wide UFO organizations (as far I am
aware of it) is available at http://www.ufoinfo.com and from
there just enter to area ORGANIZATIONS. The info for you is:


START OF PASTE:

   UFO Organizations in China


China Paranormal Research Center

Director of research: Paul Stonehill

Fax: (818) 881-7179 (Note: This is a _USA_ fax number)

Purpose: Research of Chinese paranormal developments, ufology,
and current paranormal studies (official government and
civilian).

The China Paranormal Research Center is in touch with the
Mainland and Taiwanese ufologists.

Addresses are on file at the center.

Newsletter: Chinese Ufology Today

Major recent work: Mysteries of the Yellow Emperor

Misc: The findings of Russian Sinologists will be included, too.

Mailbox: pshill@mail.idt.net

Hong Kong UFO Club
78 1/F Tai Wai New Village
NT
Hong Kong

Phone: (852) 82070990
Phone/Fax: (852) 26028303

Mailbox: moon@ufo.org.hk
Pixelsight WWW Globe: http://www.ufo.org.hk


http://ufoinfo.com/organizations/org_china.shtml

-----

UFO Organizations in Japan

Japan Space Phenomena Society
5-2, Kamiyama-cho
Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 150

Phone/Fax: +81 593 53 6352

A scientific journal about UFO related physics published in
Japan by the Extraterrestrial Physics Research Group Japan.
Researchers have the opportunity to publish theoretical studies
in this research field.

Mailbox: HiroshiYamakawa@pop02.odn.ne.jp
Pixelsight WWW Globe: http://www1.odn.ne.jp/epr/

http://ufoinfo.com/organizations/org_japa.shtml


END OF PASTE!

Phill I hope that one helps.

Best regards:

================================================================

Giuliano Marinkovicc - Jimmy (AGETI_MASTER)
Post Address: Ante Starchevicca 25/C
   23000 Zadar, Croatia, Europe
Telephone number for international calls: +385-23-430-970
Telephone number for calls inside Croatia: 023/430-970
E-mails: 9a4ag@clarc.org, 9a4ag@9a0tcp.ampr.org,
9a4ag@n7nei.wagate.com, 9a4ag@alwgw.kb5cdx.ampr.org,
ageti01@nether.net
Packet Radio HOME BBS address: 9A4AG@9A0YSI.#SBK.HRV.EU

================================================================

AGETI WW HAMRADIO GROUP / Analytical Group for Extra-Terrestrial
Information
AGETI E-mail list (croatian language): ageti@sdf.lonestar.org
9A4AG's and AGETI Home page: http://www.clarc.org/~9a4ag
AMPRn HAMRADIO telnet conference: UFO channel 1947

----------------------------------------------------------------

AGETI is a group of radio-amateurs and co-operators from
electronic media who are exchanging world wide information,
views and news about the extra-terrestrial and ufology subject!

================================================================









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                         Re: UFOs in China and Japan

From: Thiago <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 15:01:08 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 14:10:57 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs in China and Japan


 >Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 17:20:52 +0000
 >From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >Subject: UFOs in China and Japan
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Can anyone supply addresses, snail mail or e-mail, of UFO
 >researchers or UFO organisations in either China or Japan. If
 >you could I would be most grateful.


Here goes Phillip.

Japan Space Phenomena Society
5-2, Kamiyama-cho
Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 150
Phone/Fax: +81 593 53 6352

HiroshiYamakawa@pop02.odn.ne.jp
http://www1.odn.ne.jp/epr/

-----


Moon Fong (China)
moons@hkstar.com


THIAGO LUIZ TICCHETTI
Diretor Do Departamento de Publicao e Traduo Especializadas ( DEPTE -
EBE-ET / Brasilia-Brasil)
Publication Department and Specialized Translation Director.

ICQ - 35119615
http://www.ebe-et.com.br







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             Tonight on 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Mike Woods &

From: EBK
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 19:17:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 19:17:28 -0500
Subject: Tonight on 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Mike Woods &


Tonight on 'Strange Days... Indeed'

   ---------------
  /// Mike Woods
----------------

A regular 9:30 columnist, Mike tells it like he sees, reads and
hears it - listen - you'll understand...

   ------------------
  /// Sandy Nichols
-------------------

... is featured in the front page story of the March 2000 issue of
LIFE magazine - and he's not happy about the way the writer
told his story. Sandy will join us in the second hour of the
program to discuss the article, press attitude and his work with
fellow abductees.


Join Mike, Scott and co-host Jonn Kares and I, along with callers
at 9:00pm Eastern, as we discuss these Strange Days... Indeed on:

CFRB 1010 AM - 50,000 watts

6070khz Shortwave

and the Eureka Digital Broadcast System in Toronto.

You can also listen via Media Player at:

www.cfrb.com/

Netscape now seems to function the way it should at the site.

To call the program dial:

On-Air     416-872-1010
            1-800-561-CFRB
            *TALK [local mobiles]


Errol Bruce-Knapp





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                            Malaysian UFO Report

From: Muzzafar Zabidin <muzzafar@softhome.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:08:43 +0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:28:01 -0500
Subject: Malaysian UFO Report


Malaysian UFO Report.

A report from the news paper The Star (Malaysia)

IT'S UFO, CLAIM KAMPUNG (VILLAGE) FOLK

Tanah Merah (Kelantan):  A large object emitting rays of light
was reported to have landed on a piece of marshland here three
days ago, holding some 1,000 people of Kampung Gobek in a state
of high suspense.

The residents said yesterday they saw the shining object land at
3am.

"The lights from the object came in intervals, similar to
lightning, but there was no sign of rain." Mohamad Mat Diah, 51,
said.

"The light from the object was very bright and the rays bathed
the inside of my house".

"I suspected something was happening outside and looked out and
saw the object hovering over the marshland for several minutes,"
he added.

Mohammad said at daybreak he went over to the area some 100m
from his house and saw a "Y" shaped depression measuring 15m by
5m which could have been caused by the unidentified flying
object (UFO).

Near the depression was another crescent shaped 3m deep hollow
and three holes, one metre apart and each one metre in diameter,
he said.

"I was accompanied to the area by two others who initially were
afraid to come with me," he said.

Another resident Saupi Salleh, 28 said he was awakened by the
bright light.

I clearly saw the light from the object," he said.

"I thought it was lightning but when it prevailed I realised it
was something else."

He went to see the depression and concluded it must have been a
heavy object.

Many residents were seen inspecting the landing site of the UFO.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Malaysian UFO Network
http://myufonet.cjb.net









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                       MP News: Weekly Briefing 3.6.00

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 00:22:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:27:23 -0500
Subject: MP News: Weekly Briefing 3.6.00


TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

March 6, 2000

_____________________________


WEEKLY BRIEFING
3.6.00


NOTE: The news briefings of TMP News will now be published on a
regular weekly basis, at the beginning of each week, along with
other periodic updates onTMP-related news and upcoming events.
The Weekly Briefings provide a summarized listing of the
previous week's relevant news stories and reports. Special
reports on major breaking news will also be periodically
published as warranted.

Information on the upcoming William Thomas lecture "What's Wrong
with Our Skies"? on the Chemtrails issue, will follow later this
week. This event, part of TMP's The Millennium Forum Lecture
Series, is now set for April 8 at the Pacific Space Centre in
Vancouver, BC. There will also be a luncheon this month with
William Thomas for interested people in the Vancouver area;  a
chance to sit and discuss the issues involved in a relaxed
atmosphere. Date, time and location to be announced. If you are
interested, please advise as space will be limited, and a number
of people have already requested to attend. I t is also advised
to reserve tickets early for the lecture in April; they will
also be available at Banyen Books and Future Beyond Intelligence
in Vancouver. This issue has now definitely taken on a life of
its own, with growing interest and awareness on practically a
daily basis. William Thomas is an independent environmental
journalist who has spoken several times now on this issue on the
Art Bell radio program, bringing it to national public attention
in the US and Canada.

Information on other upcoming TMP lectures and conferences will also be
announced shortly.


PRG PRESS RELEASE: US JUDGE ORDERS DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL AFFIDAVITS IN CAUS VS. DOD UFO CASE
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/dod.html

PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE DR. HEATHER ANNE HARDER SPEAKS OUT
ON UFO VIEWS
http://www.tampatrib.com/Columnist/MGID06V134C.html

1967 SHAG HARBOUR UFO STORY TO BE FILMED
http://www.canoe.ca/ChronicleHerald/news.html

UFOs "OUT THERE", PROFESSOR SAYS
http://www.omaha.com/Omaha/OWH/StoryViewer/1,3153,302040,00.html

NEAR PROBE MOVES CLOSER TO EROS ASTEROID
http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/02/25/eros.update/index.html

NEAR BEGINS LOOKING CLOSELY AT EROS
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/near.html

DID EROS ASTEROID BREAK OFF FROM A PLANET?
http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/02/17/eros.02/index.html

TWO NEW TINY MOONS OF URANUS FINALLY OBSERVED
http://www.space.com/science/solarsystem/uranian_moons_000302.html

EVIDENCE OF MYSTERY PARTICLES STIRRING EXCITEMENT AND DOUBT
http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/021900sci-dark-matter.html

ANOTHER FALSE ALARM IN SETI SEARCH
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/falsealarm.html

BIONIC MAN? WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/bionic.html

FAMOUS 'GIANT ROCK' IN CALIFORNIA SHEDS SLICE
http://www.emissaryoflight.com/giant_rock.htm

'ALIEN HAND' SYNDROME TURNS LIMBS MONSTROUS
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000221/hl/dsb_51.html


_____________________________


See also News and Reports on the TMP web site for complete
listings of news stories and reports, as well as Continuum for
related news, reports, information and links:

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing weekly briefings of the latest relevant news
stories and reports, as well as information and updates on
TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul Anderson
and published by TMP, and is available free by subscription; to
be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request,
including "subscribe TMP News" or "unsubscribe TMP News" and
e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522
Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000









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                           Supposed Time-Anomalies

From: Karoline Leach <KarolineLouise@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 04:57:54 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:31:30 -0500
Subject: Supposed Time-Anomalies


Hello all,

I haven't posted anything here before, though I have read with
interest.

I have a question arising out of some work I am beginning. It is
not strictly 'UFO' oriented, but is close enough for me to be
forgiven for introducing it (I hope).

I have been looking into the so-called 'anachronistic' artefacts
that are being used to promulgate the idea of time-travellers or
lost-civilisations, or prehistoric UFO visitations.

I mean the 'metal balls' from South Africa, reputedly dug out of
Palaeozoic deposits, and the gold artefacts found in Precambrian
coal etc. (there is a web site devoted to some of them, which I
read with some scepticism. I will give the address to any who
want it).

At the moment I have not sufficient data to evaluate them on any
but a personal level. I admit I find the entire idea of
time-travellers dropping their personal belongings all over the
ancient world pretty unconvincing.

But I am prepared to be wrong.

So I am wondering if anyone here has any info or opinion that
might help either confirm my gut instinct or demonstrate its
unreliability.

Are these things just evidence of the human propensity for nice
stories - or are they something truly anomalous?

Thanks in advance.


Karoline L










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                         Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies

From: Victor J. Kean <VICTOR_J_KEAN@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:27:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 14:01:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies


 >Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 04:57:54 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Karoline Leach <KarolineLouise@aol.com>
 >Subject: Supposed Time-Anomalies
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca (UFO UpDates - Toronto)<

 >Hello all,

 >I haven't posted anything here before, though I have read with
 >interest.

 >I have a question arising out of some work I am beginning. It is
 >not strictly 'UFO' oriented, but is close enough for me to be
 >forgiven for introducing it (I hope).

 >I have been looking into the so-called 'anachronistic' artefacts
 >that are being used to promulgate the idea of time-travellers or
 >lost-civilisations, or prehistoric UFO visitations.


Hallo Karoline,

I have also looked into so-called 'anachronistic' artefacts,
particularly the Antikythera Mechanism and the Saltzburg cube.

The Antikythera Mechanism is now reliably dated c.80 BC of Greek
(Rhodos) origin and the Saltzburg cube cannot be found!

Perhaps List Members may suggest some other artifacts which we
may discuss.

Regards,

Victor J.Kean
Project FT











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   Mar > Mar 6

                           Majestic 12 Photographs

From: Scott Hale <scott_hale@american.edu>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:38:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 14:03:07 -0500
Subject: Majestic 12 Photographs

All,

Just wanted to mention the recent update over at:

www.majesticdocuments.com

They have photographs from a July 1999 "Photo Drop" as they put
it.

Among these photographs are alleged autopsy photos which look...
well... not like clinical autopsy photographs.

Just thought some of you  might find it interesting.

Regards,

Scott Hale








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   Mar > Mar 7

                               Malaysia Update

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 16:00:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 02:44:35 -0500
Subject: Malaysia Update


Source: http://www.bernama.com/bernama/index.htm

MALAYSIAN NEWS : GENERAL
March 06 , 2000 20:14PM
FORMATION OF CRATER IS NOT UNUSUAL, SAYS DID

TANAH MERAH, March 6 (Bernama) -- The formation of a crater in a
marshland area claimed by villagers as the landing place of an
object similar to an unidentified flying object (UFO) in Kampung
Gobek near here, is not something unusual, said an engineer from
the Drainage and Irrigation Department (DID).

Tanah Merah DID engineer Razali Mohamed Noor said this was
because an irrigation canal was once built in the area in 1983
for use by the farmers.

The crater could have been formed due to the change in the flow
of the water after the canal was neglected and not maintained by
the authorities for the past 13 years, he said when commenting
on the claim by villagers in the kampung that a "UFO" had landed
there on Thursday. Bernama was made to understand that the
Kelantan Geological Survey Department would despatch several
officers there to investigate the incident.

The villagers claimed that the object which emitted rays of
light landed in the area at 3am.

Since the report on the landing by the object in the village was
made, hundreds of people had visited the remote area to look at
the phenomenon for themselves.

The village situated about 100 Km from Kota Baharu town has been
transformed into a carnival-like area and many hawkers took the
opportunity to put up stalls while others turned tour guides to
the hundreds of vehicles converging to the area.

In addition, there were also villagers who put up signboards
along several roads in the village to direct people to the
"mystery crater". -- BERNAMA

Copyright �2000 BERNAMA. All rights reserved. This material may
not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed in any
form except with the prior express permission of BERNAMA.

--

UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/









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                 Feb. 29th Ohio UFO Reported To/Seen By Law

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 16:38:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 02:50:31 -0500
Subject: Feb. 29th Ohio UFO Reported To/Seen By Law


Subject: UFO Report
Location: Saybrook, Ohio [Ashtabula County]
Date: February 29, 2000

An anonymous report regarding an Ohio UFO sighting appeared on
an internet newsgroup. The report stated that a UFO sighting
near Saybrook Township, Ohio [Ashtabula County] was reported to
and also witnessed by law enforcement officials. That report did
not include a date or source of publication.

In an effort to verify the authenticity of the interesting
report, a phone call was made this afternoon to the Ashtabula
County [Ohio] Sheriff's Office at the following phone number:
440-576-9046.

In response to my inquiry, a detective at the sheriff's office
informed that the report was authentic, and it was printed in
the Star Beacon newspaper.

The date of the UFO sighting was February 28, 2000. The event
attained local news media reportage [including a news segment
seen on local television station], but frustratingly, the
information was constrained to that area as details of the
sighting were not made available to researchers that do not have
access to news from that locality.

According to a police official at The Ashtabula County Sheriff's
Office, a Mr. Dick Goddard [credentials unknown] explained the
suspected UFO sighting as "an alignment of planets."

The officer informed that a police report of the UFO sighting
does exist.

Thanks to researcher Todd Lemire for taking note of the message
which was posted on an internet newsgroup. Enclosed below is
that report.

Filed,
March 6, 2000
Kenny Young

------------------

The Star Beacon
[date unknown]

'X-Files' comes to Saybrook

Resident, troopers, deputy witness strange object moving across
the sky

By DIANA LEWIS
Staff Writer

SAYBROOK TOWNSHIP - For the second night in a row, Dennis
Johnson was standing in the dark in his front yard, transfixed
by a light in the sky that so far has defied explanation."It
could be an optical illusion, but I know I saw it move," he said
Monday evening, outside his North Depot Road home.

Pointing toward the southwest, he said, "When I came out, it was
there. Now it's straight out, to the west. It's moving
north."That's pretty strange, since most of the other objects in
the cloudless night sky - stars, mostly - were "moving" in a
different direction, due to the rotation of the earth.

"I don't think it's a satellite, or a planet," he said. "I'm
just awed by it."

This second night, Johnson was content to watch the odd-looking
light by himself. But Sunday night, he was desperately looking
for corroboration. He got it. Maybe it's because cops enjoy a
believability factor the every day, run-of-the-mill UFO- spotter
doesn't possess, but Johnson made the difficult decision to call
in the law just before midnight Sunday to report the strange
moving light in the sky to the west.

"About 11:30, I was going outside to have a cigarette, because I
don't smoke in the house and I saw this odd-looking star,"
Johnson said. "It was a flat light, instead of round and shiny,
like a star."

Johnson said he walked around the yard, trying to see it from
several angles. "It was just a flat-type light, so I lined it up
with a telephone pole to see if it was moving," Johnson said.
"It moved down, then to the left and the right."

Johnson called his wife to the door, and she watched it for a
while.

"She told me to be careful who I call about it, because they
would think I was crazy," he said.

After watching a few minutes more and noticing it changed color
from white to green at times, Johnson called 911.

"I told them it wasn't an emergency, but I wanted to know if
there were any other reports about it. They told me no," Johnson
said.

Johnson didn't know it, but a deputy was dispatched after his
first phone call. In his report, the deputy said he drove into
the area, scanned the skies, and saw nothing but stars. He did
not speak with Johnson.

After watching the object a while longer, Johnson tried to
determine how close it was. It could have been hovering over
Geneva, he said.

"I called again and said, 'Please send a car so I can show it to
somebody,'" Johnson said.

The deputy was dispatched to the area again, with instructions
to speak with the star-gazer at his home.

When he arrived, Johnson pointed out the light, located to the
west of their location.

"The deputy said, 'Yeah. It's moving,'" Johnson said.

In his report, the deputy said he lined up the light with a
fixed object and was then convinced the light was indeed moving
around in one general area. By this time, two troopers from the
Ohio State Highway Patrol's Saybrook Post were also on the
scene.

The four men took turns looking at the light with binoculars.

"They were all joking. Saying they weren't going to say anything
because people would think they were crazy," Johnson said.

Eventually, the three officers left. Johnson, however, stayed
outside a bit longer.

"I watched it go over the trees, out of sight," he said. "It
just went gradually lower in the sky and disappeared."

Johnson said it took about a half hour for the light to drop
behind the horizon. It was moving much faster than the
constellations, he said.

A call by the ACSO to Youngstown airport after Johnson's first
call yielded no information. Sheriff Billy Johnson said he
believes his deputy "saw something unusual."

"I'm not going to say there aren't UFOs," Johnson said.
"Nobody's ever come down and tapped me on the shoulder, but I
won't rule out UFOs. All we can do is watch, observe."

--

UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/








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   Mar > Mar 7

              'Sincere Artwork' Is Out There - Yerba Buena UFO

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 08:28:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 09:39:18 -0500
Subject: 'Sincere Artwork' Is Out There - Yerba Buena UFO


Interesting art show for those in the California area.


http://www.sfgate.com:80/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/02/29/
DD56417.DTL

Todd Lemire

http://members.home.net/tlemire/UFOCENTRAL.html
--
"We would rather, I suspect, fear the unknown than convert it to
the known.  What we may fear more deeply than the unknown itself
is the prospect of actually knowing it.  Happily for all of us
there are people like yourself who refuse to be bound by such
mass refusal of reality, who are not afraid to seek and learn."

Coral Lorenzen : Flying Saucers - The Startling Evidence of The
Invasion from Outer Space









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   Mar > Mar 7

                    Nick Pope's Weird World - March Issue

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 14:09:20 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 10:53:06 -0500
Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World - March Issue


Weird World with Nick Pope
March 2000 Issue, Hot Gossip UK
www.hotgossip.co.uk

Time marches on, so appropriately enough, here's the March
column, with a mixture of news, reviews and gossip about
ufology, the paranormal, the weird and the wonderful. This
month, I'm afraid, starts with extremely sad news.


Helen Wheels

It's with great sadness that I have to report the tragic and
untimely death of American singer Helen Wheels, one of a handful
of entertainers who was brave enough to speak out publicly about
UFOs and abductions - not least about her own extraordinary
experiences.

Helen's experiences and philosophy were described in chapter
nine of Michael Mannion's book Project Mindshift, and she was an
abductee who worked with researchers such as the late Pete
Mazzola and Budd Hopkins.

She was a gifted singer/songwriter who used her music to get
across information about UFOs, abductions, Freedom of
Information Act UFO material and the issue of a UFO cover-up.

Songs like The Saucer Song were entirely UFO-related, and she
used her album covers to disseminate information about UFOs. She
also wrote material which was used by other bands, such as Blue
Oyster Cult.

Helen was the sister of ufologist Peter Robbins, and my deepest
sympathies go to Peter and the rest of the family. Tributes can
be left at www.helenwheels.com


The Atlantis Enigma

Fans of authors like Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval will be
interested in a new book by Herbie Brennan.

The Atlantis Enigma draws on ancient myths and postulates that
Biblical accounts of the Great Flood tie in with accounts of
other cataclysms mentioned in other cultures.

Brennan, however, puts forward the intriguing idea that this
great and very real cataclysm was caused by the explosion of a
nearby star, which sent debris thr ough our own solar system.

There's a lot of material highlighting extraordinarily advanced
knowledge possessed by ancient peoples, but plenty of new and
thought-provoking ideas that are bound to lead to debate.

The Atlantis Enigma is published by Piatkus at �10.99.

Check out www.piatkus.co.uk for details of this and other
Piatkus titles.


Satanic Abuse Claims Resurface

The controversy over ritual satanic abuse has been something
that alien abduction researchers have followed with interest, as
both phenomena have been denounced by some psychologists as
having their roots not in reality but in a mixture of hoaxing,
fantasy-prone personality and therapist-induced False Memory
Syndrome.

An apparent absence of any hard forensic evidence prompted some
to suggest that ritual satanic abuse existed only in the minds
of over-zealous social workers, and sceptical ufologists have
suggested some interesting parallels with over-zealous abduction
researchers.

Now the debate is back with a vengeance, as psychotherapist
Valerie Sinason claimed that some children in Britain were being
specifically bred for ritual sacrifice.

She claims that 46 of her patients have reported seeing the
murder of adults and children, while 16 reported seeing induced
abortions or the murder of babies. She also claims to have
seen photographs showing injuries to children, ceremonial sites
and mutilated animals. Doubts have been cast on these claims by
a number of other experts, including Professor Richard Green
from the Department of Psychiatry at Imperial College School of
Medicine in London.

But Valerie Sinason is putting together a report for the
Department of Health, and Scotland Yard are reported to be
investigating.

I'll keep you posted on this disturbing story.


Cheers

There can be few more enjoyable pleasures than sitting outside
on a warm summers day, sipping an ice cold beer. But if you
fancy an unusual tipple, an American company - Crop Circle Beer
- is marketing a beer brewed from barley from within crop
circles.

The deal involves Alton Barnes farmer Tim Carson and Warminster
Maltings, who ensure that the barley used in the brewing process
is not mixed with barley from other fields. The beer isn't yet
available in the UK, but I'll be making every effort to get hold
of some, strictly for research purposes, of course!


Intruders Foundation 2000

Hot news just in: Dr John Mack has agreed to speak at the
Intruders Foundation abduction conference being organised by
Budd Hopkins in New York on 6 May. More details in next month's
column.


The Knights Templar

Much spookiness, mystery and conspiratorial skulduggery has been
laid at the door of the Knights Templar, and there have been
numerous claims made in the last few years, linking t his Order
with The Holy Grail, Freemasonry and the Turin Shroud.

Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince wrote a controversial,
well-researched and meticulously referenced book called The
Templar Revelation which linked them to various practices that
would be deno unced as heretical by the Christian church.

Now there's a new book offering a less spooky history of the
Order. Entitled 'The Templars', and written by Piers Paul Read,
it paints a rather more orthodox view of the Templars as a
Crusading Order whose fantast ic wealth attracted the jealousy
of a politically strong but impoverished French King.

The book is published by Weidenfeld at �20.


Flying Tractors

Researcher James Easton has caused much amusement among
ufologists with a new theory about Britain's best-known UFO
case, the Rendlesham Forest incident.

James was previously best known for loudly championing Ian
Ridpath's theory that the triangular, metallic craft seen by
numerous United States Air Force personnel in Rendlesham Forest
was a lighthouse, although as one of the witnesses wryly pointed
out, lighthouses don't fly!

Now Easton has a theory of his own: that the entire incident
might have been caused by the misidentification of a tractor.

The apparently serious suggestion started when Easton was
driving late at night and saw a tractor in a field, festooned
with lights.

Unfortunately, theories like this - quite apart from being at
odds with the data - serve only to infuriate witnesses,
believers and sceptics alike.

Witnesses stand accused of ridiculously poor judgement, while
believers think it! 's yet more negative, ill-informed
debunking.

Ironically, it's serious sceptical researchers who tend to be
most annoyed by such nonsense. Why? Because wild claims like
this do far more than simply undermine the credibility of
sceptics; they make them laughing stocks, and for serious
researchers, that's the kiss of death.



Nick Pope's three books, Open Skies, Closed Minds, The Uninvited
and Operation Thunder Child are available from all good
bookshops. His UK publishers are Simon & Schuster. In America,
The Overlook Press publish his books in hardback while Dell
Publishing produce paperback editions.

Nick Pope , London 2000







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   Mar > Mar 8

             Reed & Raith's 'Alien' - Nothing Like A Good Laugh

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 23:41:46 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 10:10:41 -0500
Subject: Reed & Raith's 'Alien' - Nothing Like A Good Laugh


*Please feel free to pass this along to anyone*

The tall tale of an alien encounter spun by Jonathan Reed and
his accomplice Robert Raith apparently knows no bounds. The
question has to be asked; How low is this dubious duo willing to
go? Lower than you might think.

Now you can view a video of the alien on their website. This is
by far the best laugh I have had in a long time. The video clip
is only about 4 seconds or less and the alien combined with the
melodramatic heavy breathing is just too much. I laughed so hard
my side still hurts!

The alien is by far the most ridiculous looking prop I have ever
seen. The video image at the website shows the rubber alien
laying on a thermal blanket and if you look at the feet... well,
there appear to be no feet.

I'm still in awe at how these two morons actually thought they
could fool anyone with a rubber alien head and a suit full of
stuffing.

I only wish I could be at the International UFO Congress
conference in Nevada when Reed and Raith play this video for
their audience. Those attending to see this video and Reed's
bogus evidence are in for quite a surprise. I wonder if anyone
is going to ask for their money back.

Also, I have an unconfirmed report that their book is also out
now. It apparently has only text and no pictures of the alien or
Reed's other doctored evidence. If you have a copy of the book,
please e-mail me.

To look at this laughable piece go to:

http://www.odysseylink.net/Gallery/Creature/Creaturev1.htm

If these clowns had actually just sought out legitimate
employment instead of wasting their time and cash on this hoax,
they probably would have been much better off. I recently e-mail
Reed via his website and told him to just come clean and that if
he was lucky he might get a movie of the week deal out of it
about a guy and his friends who are down on their luck and
decide to hoax a UFO encounter for the cash.

Maybe FOX will buy it...

Feel free to e-mail Reed and Raith to let them know how you feel
about them trashing UFOlogy with their scam:
EmailUs@OdysseyLink.net

Let's not forget who was stupid enough to actually give these
dirtbags a soapbox to stand on, Art Bell.

Thanks again Art for further discrediting ufology and promoting
another hoax with your total lack of regard for anyone but
yourself and your ratings.

Royce J. Myers III

eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy - "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind."
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3  (eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog (UFO Hall o' Shame)










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   Mar > Mar 8

                     Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:43:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 10:21:26 -0500
Subject: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


Thought I'd give a bit of forewarning to the list. See article
below:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/0307ufo.shtml

Sky lights to be flares, not UFOs,Guard says

By Dave Walker
The Arizona Republic
March 7, 2000

Look to the sky, conspiracy buffs: See the spheres of light
floating eerily in the night sky.

It's... the return of the fabled 'Phoenix lights!'

Actually, it's a flare-lit night-training exercise, which the
Arizona Air National Guard says will be conducted this week and
next on the Barry M. Goldwater Range near Gila Bend.

A similar scenario - almost exactly three years ago - sparked an
ongoing run of UFO buzz over the mysterious lights in the sky.

This time, a tactical media blitz has preceded the invasion of
the parachute-borne flares. Dubbed Operation Snowbird, the
exercises involve jets and helicopters from Air Guard squadrons
in Michigan, California and New York.

They are scheduled from 8:30 to 10 p.m. tonight through Thursday
and for March 13-16. Weather permitting, that is - Monday
night's eerie night-sky activities were scrubbed due to rain.


Todd Lemire

http://members.home.net/tlemire/UFOCENTRAL.html
--
An expert may be defined as someone who can make you feel stupid
for offering your opinion.  Fortunately, as physicist Philip
Morrison once said, ufology "is a field in which there aren't any
experts.








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              Re: Reed & Raith's 'Alien' - Nothing Like A Good

From: Donnie Shevlin <dshevlin@charter.net>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 10:01:31 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 12:53:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Reed & Raith's 'Alien' - Nothing Like A Good


 >Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 23:41:46 -0800
 >From: Royce J. Myers III ?ufowatchdog@earthlink.net?
 >Subject: Reed ? Raith's 'Alien' - Nothing Like A Good Laugh
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto ?updates@sympatico.ca?

 >*Please feel free to pass this along to anyone*

 >The tall tale of an alien encounter spun by Jonathan Reed and
 >his accomplice Robert Raith apparently knows no bounds. The
 >question has to be asked; How low is this dubious duo willing to
 >go? Lower than you might think.

<snip>

 >Also, I have an unconfirmed report that their book is also out
 >now. It apparently has only text and no pictures of the alien or
 >Reed's other doctored evidence. If you have a copy of the book,
 >please e-mail me.

<snip>

 >Let's not forget who was stupid enough to actually give these
 >dirtbags a soapbox to stand on, Art Bell.

 >Thanks again Art for further discrediting ufology and promoting
 >another hoax with your total lack of regard for anyone but
 >yourself and your ratings.


Hi all,

I am in total disbelieve. I slightly remember seeing this a
while back. Quickly pushed it to the back of my mind knowing
very well it was a scam/hoax. But when I read Royce's comment
about a _book_, Hooooly Cow!

Now it's time I come out and tell everyone:

"I have an alien living in my plumbing at home."

It only comes out at night and nibbles on my cats' food. And on
the weekend when I do laundry I make it upset.

I think it's the detergent that I'm using.

So, let me start on a book, take some poor pictures and
convinince some one (Bell are you interested?) that its all
real... I could make millions, thousands or humility, which ever
comes first.

In total dismay,

Donnie Shevlin









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   Mar > Mar 8

                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 08:26:36 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:17:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:43:13 -0500
 >From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
 >Subject: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Thought I'd give a bit of forewarning to the list. See article
 >below:

 >http://www.azcentral.com/news/0307ufo.shtml

 >Sky lights to be flares, not UFOs, Guard says

 >By Dave Walker
 >The Arizona Republic
 >March 7, 2000

 >Look to the sky, conspiracy buffs: See the spheres of light
 >floating eerily in the night sky.

 >It's... the return of the fabled 'Phoenix lights!'

 >Actually, it's a flare-lit night-training exercise, which the
 >Arizona Air National Guard says will be conducted this week and
 >next on the Barry M. Goldwater Range near Gila Bend.

 >A similar scenario - almost exactly three years ago - sparked an
 >ongoing run of UFO buzz over the mysterious lights in the sky.

 >This time, a tactical media blitz has preceded the invasion of
 >the parachute-borne flares. Dubbed Operation Snowbird, the
 >exercises involve jets and helicopters from Air Guard squadrons
 >in Michigan, California and New York.

 >They are scheduled from 8:30 to 10 p.m. tonight through Thursday
 >and for March 13-16. Weather permitting, that is - Monday
 >night's eerie night-sky activities were scrubbed due to rain.


Hello Todd:

At least they warned in advance this time!

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                         Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies

From: Karoline Leach <KarolineLouise@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 13:47:16 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:31:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies


 >Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:27:25 -0500
 >From: Victor J. Kean <VICTOR_J_KEAN@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 04:57:54 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Karoline Leach <KarolineLouise@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Supposed Time-Anomalies
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca (UFO UpDates - Toronto)<

 >Hallo Karoline,

 >I have also looked into so-called 'anachronistic' artefacts,
 >particularly the Antikythera Mechanism and the Saltzburg cube.

 >The Antikythera Mechanism is now reliably dated c.80 BC of Greek
 >(Rhodos) origin and the Saltzburg cube cannot be found!

 >Perhaps List Members may suggest some other artifacts which we
 >may discuss.


Dear Victor and all,

First thanks for the many responses, to which I will reply
separately.

The website is at:

http://www.time-travel.com/forbidde.htm

It is a generalised time-travel site with a special area covering
these so-called 'anomalous objects'.

Among other things, it mentions some metal balls, found in S,
Africa, reputedly in deposits formed in the palaeozoic era, and
on some lengths of metal tubing, reputedly from a similar age.

It also mentions a couple of supposed old shoe-prints in rocks,
but from the photographs I saw, these look more like slightly
unusual weathering patterns than evidence of prehistoric
Adidas-wearers. All the info on the site seems to be taken from
a book called 'Forbidden Archaeology' which I have not read.

If these things did - genuinely - originate from these ancient
deposits, then they obviously mean that our present
understanding of life on earth is seriously up the creek.

But that is a very large 'if.'

The trouble is, I fear, that (as with everything else), what
people think about these artefacts is predetermined by their
existing world-view, rather than by the available data. If you
ask a follower of von Daniken, they will tell you the South
African metal balls are proof that 'God' was indeed 'an
astronaut,' (even if said balls turn out to have 'made in
Taiwan' printed on one side).

If you ask a mainstream scientist, they will tell you the same
  balls are either forgeries or incorrectly dated (even if there is
no proof for either of these contentions).

  Belief truly is the enemy of reason.

I hope no one minds me saying that there seems to be something
very similar here between the 'Pelicans' and the 'ET' believers.

Since there is clearly no proof of either hypothesis, wouldn't
it make more sense to abandon believing either of them (or
anything else) and just keep open to all possibilities?

Best wishes,

Karoline L









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   Mar > Mar 8

                     Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8

From: Bruno Mancusi <Bruno.Mancusi@com.mcnet.ch>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:58:29 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 15:18:17 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8


 >Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:04:55 +0000
 >From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
 >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >      UFO ROUNDUP
 >Volume 5, Number 8
 >February 24, 2000
 >Editor: Joseph Trainor

 >from the UFO Files...
 >
 >1217: UNDER NEW
 >          OWNERSHIP

 >     Like California's Mount Shasta or Spain's
 >Mount Moncayo, Switzerland has a mystic
 >mountain of its very own.
 >     It's called Mount Pilatus, and it's located
 >in the Alps near Engelberg, about 59 kilometers
 >(37 miles) east of Bern, the national capital.
 >     Throughout the Middle Ages, there were
 >reports of gnomes (aliens?) living on the upper
 >slopes of Mount Pilatus.  These gnomes were
 >described as humanoids about one foot (0.3
 >meters) tall with snow-white hair, while long
 >beards flowed down over their breasts.  The
 >gnomes not only watched over the chamois
 >(goats) bounding from rock to rock but tended
 >the fish sporting in the depths of the mountain
 >streams."


I was surprised to read a very strange "Swiss legend" in this
issue. The general scenario is well-known: a good girl and his
boy-friend, a bad rich man and the happy end (the goods are
rewarded, the bad is punished). But what amazed me was the
"giant silver disc": I've never seen such an allusion in Swiss
legends. So, I ordered immediately the book 'Legends of
Switzerland' at http://www.bibliofind.com/ and received it very
quickly.

The original text confirmed my suspicion. There is absolutely no
"disc", no date is given and there are no dialogues between the
bad rich (he has no name) and the "craft".


Here is the original text:

---

Mount Pilatus is said to have long been the home of countless
little gnomes who hid in every nook and crevice and under every
stone. These dwarfs were about eighteen inches high, and wore
long green mantles to conceal the fact that they had
goose-shaped feet. Bright red caps were jauntily perched on top
of their snow-white hair, while long beards of the same colour
flowed down over their breasts. The gnomes not only watched over
the chamois, bounding from rock to rock, but tended the fish
sporting in the depths of the mountain streams, and protected
all game from the greed of wanton sportsmen.

These gnomes were so obliging that they cheerfully helped the
herdsmen watch and tend their cattle, milk the cows, make butter
or cheese, and in exchange for their manifold services merely
required a small bowlful of milk or cream. Gentle and helpful as
long as they were treated kindly, the gnomes were sure to
revenge themselves upon any mortals who ill-treated them or
their protgs, or hurt their feelings by trying to get a sight
of their misshapen feet.

A rich peasant once pastured his cattle high up on the beautiful
Kastenalp, on Mount Pilatus, where the grass was so rich that
the cows had to be milked three times a day. Magdalen, the only
daughter of a widowed cousin, once painfully made her way up to
this alp to beg for a little help for her sick mother, who had
neither food nor medicine in the house. The rich man, who had
provisions in plenty, and who stored away cheese after cheese in
his cellars, nevertheless refused to help his poor relatives,
and sent Magdalen home empty-handed and in tears.

Overtaken on her way down the mountain by a sudden
thunder-storm, the girl sought shelter in the hut of her lover,
a herdsman to whom she confided all her sorrows. A generous,
noble-hearted fellow, Alois no sooner heard of his sweetheart's
destitution and disappointment than he ran to get a small
cheese, the only food he had in the house, and forced her to
accept it for her starving mother. The storm over, Magdalen set
out again with lightened heart, but her foot suddenly slipping
on the wet grass, she let go the precious cheese, which,
bounding from rock to rock, rolled over the edge of a precipice,
into whose depths it disappeared.

Magdalen's tears now flowed afresh; but while she sat there
wringing her hands in despair, she suddenly felt a twitch at her
dress. Looking down, she there beheld one of the tiny mountain
spirits, carrying a small cheese upon his shoulder, and holding
a bundle of medicinal herbs in his hand.

"Weep no longer," the little man gently said. "The hard-hearted
owner of the Kastelnalp shall be duly punished for his refusal
to help you. In the meantime take these herbs, which will
restore your mother's health, and I'm sure you and your mother
will enjoy this cheese."

The little man then vanished, leaving his gifts behind him, and
Magdalen hastened joyfully home. Her first care was to prepare
herb tea for the patient whose health was miraculously restored
as soon as she had tasted it. But when Magdalen tried to cut the
cheese the kind-hearted gnome had given her, she was amazed to
find it was a solid lump of gold! She and her mother were so
rich with this treasure that they soon purchased the
Brndlislalp, where Magdalen and Alois, a happy husband and
wife, tended their flocks together.

As for the hard-hearted owner of the Kastelnalp, he was justly
punished for his lack of charity. The sudden rain-storm,
loosening the rocks above his pasture, started a landslide which
covered his alp with such a mass of loose stones that not a
blade of grass has ever been seen on it since. Besides this, a
fragment of rock struck the owner as he fled, and breaking both
his legs, left him so badly crippled that he never walked
without crutches again.

H.A. Guerber, 'Legends of Switzerland', Dodd, Mead and Co.,
New York 1899, pages 211 to 214.

---

You have a pretty good imagination, Joseph...

Bruno
Switzerland







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   Mar > Mar 8

                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:56:33 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 15:20:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:43:13 -0500
 >From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
 >Subject: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Thought I'd give a bit of forewarning to the list. See article
 >below:

 >http://www.azcentral.com/news/0307ufo.shtml

 >Sky lights to be flares, not UFOs,Guard says

 >By Dave Walker
 >The Arizona Republic
 >March 7, 2000

 >Look to the sky, conspiracy buffs: See the spheres of light
 >floating eerily in the night sky.

 >It's... the return of the fabled 'Phoenix lights!'

 >Actually, it's a flare-lit night-training exercise, which the
 >Arizona Air National Guard says will be conducted this week and
 >next on the Barry M. Goldwater Range near Gila Bend.

 >A similar scenario - almost exactly three years ago - sparked an
 >ongoing run of UFO buzz over the mysterious lights in the sky.

Since they're doing us the service of announcing it this time,
somebody out in Phoenix should get video of the exercise from a
comparable distance, and see if the results appear roughly the
same as the Phoenix lights of two years ago.  It would be
interesting to know if the videos look similar or not.

Somebody should also monitor whether Luke AFB launches jets on
afterburners to investigate those flares, and then later denies
that any were sent up at all :-)

This of course follows the sound scientific principal of
establishing a comparative baseline or "control" when conducting
an experiment.

My two cents,

   -Brian C.









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                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:23:55 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 15:27:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:43:13 -0500
 >From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
 >Subject: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Thought I'd give a bit of forewarning to the list. See article
 >below:

 >http://www.azcentral.com/news/0307ufo.shtml

 >Sky lights to be flares, not UFOs,Guard says

 >By Dave Walker
 >The Arizona Republic
 >March 7, 2000

 >Look to the sky, conspiracy buffs: See the spheres of light
 >floating eerily in the night sky.

 >It's... the return of the fabled 'Phoenix lights!'

 >Actually, it's a flare-lit night-training exercise, which the
 >Arizona Air National Guard says will be conducted this week and
 >next on the Barry M. Goldwater Range near Gila Bend.

 >A similar scenario - almost exactly three years ago - sparked an
 >ongoing run of UFO buzz over the mysterious lights in the sky.

<snip>

I suggest that individuals who live in the Pheonix area video
tape the event.

The resulting video would provide a "control" by which the
Pheonix lights taped three years ago could be judged as well as
any future anomolous events.

If video of unknown anomolous events look anything like those of
the upcoming "flares" event, then one could attribute flares as
a factor in the event.

However, if video of anomolous events look drastically different
than video of the upcomming "flares" event, the differences
could be viewed as further evidence of something truely unknown.

Tim Haley








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                     Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8

From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 16:15:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 16:28:34 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8


 >Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:58:29 +0100
 >From: Bruno Mancusi <Bruno.Mancusi@com.mcnet.ch>
 >Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 8
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>   UFO ROUNDUP
 >>Volume 5, Number 8
 >>February 24, 2000
 >>Editor: Joseph Trainor

 >I was surprised to read a very strange "Swiss legend" in this
 >issue. The general scenario is well-known: a good girl and his
 >boy-friend, a bad rich man and the happy end (the goods are
 >rewarded, the bad is punished). But what amazed me was the
 >"giant silver disc": I've never seen such an allusion in Swiss
 >legends. So, I ordered immediately the book 'Legends of
 >Switzerland' at http://www.bibliofind.com/ and received it very
 >quickly.

 >The original text confirmed my suspicion. There is absolutely no
 >"disc", no date is given and there are no dialogues between the
 >bad rich (he has no name) and the "craft".

Thank you very much for posting this, Bruno.

I, too, tried to verify the story by finding the book that was
cited, but on Amazon I could only find books with similar
sounding names, not the exact book. So I didn't buy any of them
& couldn't verify this (possibly) astounding story.











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   Mar > Mar 9

                          Dennis Balthazer On UK TV

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:44:29 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 05:32:13 -0500
Subject: Dennis Balthazer On UK TV


Hi Errol,

I have been asked to pass the following on for those living in
the UK:

-----

From: Peter Webber <peter@dogwich.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Subject: Roswell
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:15:27 -0000


Check out the Equinox on Channel Four at 9.00pm on Monday 13th
for Dennis Balthazer, UFO Investigator, talking about the
Roswell incident.

The film is called "The Secret Life of the Crash Test Dummy"

Spread the word - important new claims.

-----

Best wishes,

John Hayes

ufoinfo@ukgateway.net
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, UK UFO Network Bulletin,
AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI
Magazine plus archives of Filer's Files.







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   Mar > Mar 9

                      UFO Activity After Base Closures

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 20:17:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 05:42:58 -0500
Subject: UFO Activity After Base Closures


Errol,

Todd Fraser and was wondering if anyone else out there knows of
any UFO activity near other military bases _after_ they were
abandoned.

Ever since my sighting at the Canadian Forces Station
Falconbridge, Sudbury, Ontario base in October 1990 (the base
closed in 1987), I've been wondering the same thing!?

Cordially,

Michel M. Deschamps








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                         Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies

From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:27:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 06:53:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies



 >>>Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 04:57:54 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Karoline Leach <KarolineLouise@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Supposed Time-Anomalies
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca (UFO UpDates - Toronto)<

 >If these things did - genuinely - originate from these ancient
 >deposits, then they obviously mean that our present
 >understanding of life on earth is seriously up the creek.
 >But that is a very large 'if.'
 >The trouble is, I fear, that (as with everything else), what
 >people think about these artefacts is predetermined by their
 >existing world-view, rather than by the available data. If you
 >ask a follower of von Daniken, they will tell you the South
 >African metal balls are proof that 'God' was indeed 'an
 >astronaut,' (even if said balls turn out to have 'made in
 >Taiwan' printed on one side).

 >If you ask a mainstream scientist, they will tell you the same
 >balls are either forgeries or incorrectly dated (even if there is
 >no proof for either of these contentions).
 >
 >Belief truly is the enemy of reason.

Now THAT is truly one of the wisest things I have ever read on
any ufo list or heard from the mouth of anyone else also totally
curious about ufo's and every possibility they hold!

.......

 >Since there is clearly no proof of either hypothesis, wouldn't
 >it make more sense to abandon believing either of them (or
 >anything else) and just keep open to all possibilities?

GEE! What a concept, what an idea! But hey, if all listers on this
list did that, the number of posts would drop by about 90%! No arguments,
no appeals to 'reason', the meaning of which seems more ego driven than
'reason' driven.

Maybe there would just be a sense of awe, of interest,
questioning, sharing wonderments, no reason for personal and
cruel attacks on the personality or integrity of fellow listers.
Just maybe, we might have a common pool of information, to which
we add, seek to know about, from which some day, we can actually
draw some conclusions which we might be able to debate or
generally agree on, free from flames.

You know, this actually makes sense to me! Come to think of it,
its an idea I once, long ago suggested too, but there was only a
few personal replies from a few people who admitted to thinking
the same thing! Don't recall too many actually posted to the
list.

Please forgive me if I seem to gloat over this sudden appearance
of an intelligent paradigm in which to view archaeological and
other unknowns, including ufo's, and the fact that it came from
a fellow member of the feminine species. Making a 'point', being
'right' being the defender of the great 'scientific method' is
not the basis of all egos nor does it make sense when we have so
much evidence, but really so little information to work with.

I have read about these anomalies going back to the 60's and
70's, and about UFOs since I was a kid, but now, half a century
later, I still don't have the answers, but I do have a lot more
information than I had then, and while I do give some more
'weight' than others, I know I don't yet have all the
information I need to arrive at an accurate decision/conclusion
as to what it all is. I will not judge another's experience. I
do not have the moral right to do so, nor the necessary
knowledge to do so. And I haven't yet met anyone who has.


Thank you Karoline!

Lesley Cluff








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   Mar > Mar 9

                          Dust Bunny Hunt - Update

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 02:41:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 13:45:18 -0500
Subject: Dust Bunny Hunt - Update


Hi All,

It's been a week so I wanted to post a little 'update' to
UpDates! :)

I am awaiting delivery of the sealed, sterile vials I ordered
from a medical supplier. As soon as I have those, I'll make up
the 'kits' and mail them out to all of the participants. Please
be patient with me, it's taking a little longer than I'd
expected, but we'll get this all done in its own time. I will
notify you all via this list when I'm ready to begin mailing out
the kits.

Thanx again for your patience and cooperation.

John Velez, 'Dust Collector'  ;)
________________________________________________
                         AIC - Abduction Information Center -
                        www.spacelab.net/~jvif/default.htm
                                    jvif@spacelab.net
  "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________









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   Mar > Mar 9

                       APRO Bulletins Wanted For Trade

From: Roderick B. Dyke <RodBD@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 23:46:39 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 13:57:43 -0500
Subject: APRO Bulletins Wanted For Trade

[Non-sunscriber post--ebk]

Roderick B. Dyke
Golden Age Collectables, Ltd
1501 Pike Place Market
401 Lower Level
Seattle, Washington 98101

Email: Rodbd@aol.com

Dear fellow researchers:

I am trying to complete my personal research archives. You help
is appreciated.

The following items are wanted for trade, as listed below. My
prime needs and wants are listed, but will also trade for other
items not listed...let me know what you have to offer! I prefer
originals if at all possible.

I will also buy outright collections of UFO/FORTEAN type
materials outright. Let me know what you have to offer... no
collection is to large!

[last update: 3.01.00]


UFO Publications Wanted!

APRO BULLETIN [Wanted]
1952: Jul
1953: Jan, Mar, May, Jul, Sep, Nov
1954: Jan, Mar, May, Jul, Sep, Nov
1955: Jan, Mar, May, Jul, Sep, Nov
1956: Jan, Mar, May, Jul, Sep,
1965: Jul, Sep, Nov
1966: Mar, May, Jul,
1979: Mar, Apr, May, Jun, Jul, Aug, Nov, Dec
1980: Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun, Jul, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov, Dec
Vol 29: # 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
Vol 30: # 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 12
Vol 31: # 4
Vol 32: # 4, 5


UFO Publications For Trade:

APRO BULLETIN [Available for trade]
1958: Jul, Sep, Nov
1959: Mar, Jul
1960: Jul, Nov
1961: May
1962: Jan
1963: Sep, Nov
1964: Mar, May, Nov
1965: Jan
1966: Sep
1967: Jan, May, Jul, Sep, Nov
1968: Jan, Mar, May, Jul, Nov
1969: Jan, Mar, Jul, Sep
1970: Mar, May, Jul, Sep, Nov
1971: Mar, May, Jul, Sep
1972: Jan, Mar, May, Jul, Sap
1973: Jan
1976: Mar, Apr, May, Jun, Nov, Dec
1977: Jan, Feb, Aug









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   Mar > Mar 9

                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 10

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 12:50:33 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 14:16:33 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 10



      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 5, Number 10
March 9, 2000
Editor: Joseph Trainor

Masinaigan@aol.com

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


UFO LANDS NEAR A VILLAGE
IN MALAYSIA

      A UFO landed in a marsh close to a village
of 1,000 people in the Southeast Asian country
of Malaysia and left physical evidence of its
arrival.
      "A large object emitting rays of light was reported
to have landed on a piece of marshland here three
days ago (Thursday, March 2, 2000) holding some
1,000 people in Kampung Gobek (village) in a state of
high suspense."
      Kampung Gobek is located near the city of
Tanah Merah in Malaysia's Kelantan province.
      "The residents said yesterday they saw the
shining object at 3 a.m."
      "'The lights from the object came in intervals,
similar to lightning, but there was no sign of rain,'
Mohamad Mat Diah, 51, said."
      "'The light from the object was very bright,
and the rays bathed the inside of my house.'"
      "'I suspected something was happening outside
and ducked out and saw the object hovering over
the marshland for several minutes,' he added."
      "Mohamad said at daybreak he went over to the
area some 100 metres (330 feet) from his house and
saw a Y-shaped depression measuring 15 metres
by 5 metres (50 feet by 17 feet)  which could have
been caused by the unidentified flying object (UFO)."
      "Near the depression was another crescent-shaped
three-metre (10-foot) deep hollow and three holes
one metre (3.3 feet) apart and each one metre in
diameter."
      "'I was accompanied to the area by two others who
initially were afraid to come with me,' he said."
      "Another resident, Saupi Salleh, 28, said he was
awakened by the bright light."
      "'I clearly saw the light from the object,' he said."
      "'I thought it was lightning, but when it prevailed,
I realized it was something else.'"
      "He went to see the depression and concluded
that it must have been a heavy object."  (See the
Malaysian newspaper The Star of Kuala Lumpur for
March 5, 2000.  Many thanks to Muzzafar Zabidin and
Errol Bruce-Knapp for forwarding the newspaper article.)

THREE SPHERICAL GREY UFOs
SEEN OVER MIDDLESEX, UK

      On Thursday, February 17, 2000, at 11:45 a.m.,
Elaine W. was in her neighbourhood at the Dormers
Wells section of Southall, Middlesex, UK when she
saw an unusual sight in the western sky.
      "I saw three non-reflecting grey globes crossing
the sky," Elaine reported.  "They approached from the
west, flew to the east.  I saw them as I was facing north.
The third (UFO) was travelling some 200 yards behind
at an angle of 70 degrees and under 2,000 feet (in
altitude--J.T.)  They had a structured and defined outline
and appeared to be rotating anti-clockwise  (In the USA,
we say counter-clockwise--J.T.)  Despite the wind present
that day, they did not veer or bob around in the breeze.
They were about the size of a dried pea held at arm's
length."
      Elaine added that Dormers Wells "is on a direct ley
line from Silbury Hill" in North Wiltshire, the site of the
recent UFO landing in UK.  (See UFO Roundup, Volume 5,
Number 9 for March 2, 2000.)  (Email Form Report)

DISC-SHAPED UFOs SIGHTED IN
NORTHERN ITALY AND SICILY

      On Saturday, February 12, 2000, at 4 a.m., residents
of Novellara, a town in Italy's Reggio Emiliar province
about 300 kilometers (180 miles) north of Rome,
sighted "two luminous discs flying at an extremely
high rate of speed.  The discs were kept in view by
several dozen witnesses for several minutes." (See
the Italian newspaper Gazzetta di Reggio for
February 13, 2000.)
      On Wednesday, February 2, 2000, at 10:15 p.m.,
in the Catania region of Sicily, a large island in the
Mediterranean Sea owned by Italy, "two men
leaving the factory at the end of their work shift saw
in a northerly direction an unusually strong white light
in the form of a diamond.  The object remained
immobile in the dark sky for just over one minute,
then it zipped away to the horizon at blinding speed."
      Earlier that same day, at 8 a.m., "several people
in the Priolo section of Siracusa," a large seaport
city in Sicily, "saw what looked like a humanoid figure
suspended very high in the air, over the sea."  But
other witnesses claimed that "the object resembled a
silver bullet."  (Grazie a Edoardo Russo, Roberto
Labantil e Davide Ferrarra di Centro Italiano dis Studi
Ufologici per questi rapporti.)

PHOTOG CAPTURES UFOs ON
FILM SOUTH OF CHICAGO

      A photographer in Palos Hills, Illinois (population
17,803) captured three UFOs on film last week and
has posted them on his website.
      "I was photographing contrails/chemtrails over
Palos Hills, Illinois" on Wednesday, March 1, 2000
when he accidentally captured the images.
      "I took a series of 34 photos," he reported, "And
when I viewed them I saw objects in two photos
that I did not see when I took the film."
      He was using a Model 2700 Vivitar Digital Camera
when he shot the 34 photos of the sky near Roberts
Road and 103rd Street in Palos Hills, just south of
Chicago.
      Photo No. 27 shows one UFO in the sky.
      Photo No. 29 shows three unidentified objects,
with two of the objects "turned" or pitched at the same
angle.
      This is the first time that UFOs in the USA's Upper
Midwest have been photographed in connection with
the mysterious and controversial "chemtrails."
      The photos may be viewed at the following sites:
UFO Roundup readers should set their browsers for
http://paloshills.com/contrails/022900/27.jpg and
http://paloshills.com/contrails/022900/29.jpg.  (Many
thanks to "the Public Eye" for this story.)

V-SHAPED UFOs SEEN HIGH
OVER BAY CITY, MICHIGAN

      On Sunday, March 5, 2000, at 8:37 p.m., Richard
Ogden decided to take a break from taking a school
exam and stepped outside of his home in Bay City,
Michigan (population 38,700).  He then spotted
something very strange in the southeastern sky,
over Lake Huron.
      "I went outside to take a break from taking a test
for class," Richard reported, "Standing between the
house and the garage, facing due west, I was
looking up at about 60 degrees above the horizon
when I spotted two distinct but faint groups of lights
moving to the northwest at a very high rate of speed.
The objects were similar to faint stars."
      "I could only observe the objects for approximately
four seconds.  They appeared to be grouped together
in a semi-circular or possibly V-shaped formation.  The
number of separate lights was estimated at between
12 and 18."
      Although the exact speed and altitude "were hard
to gauge because of the limited time I was able to
observe them," Richard estimated that the two UFOs
were traveling at an altitude of `12,000 feet (3,600
meters) at an average speed of 3,000 miles per hour
(4,800 kilometers per hour).  (Email Form Report)
(Editor's Comment: When in Bay City, be sure to
visit the Museum of the Great Lakes.  A good place
to stay is the Euclid Motel.  I stayed there during my
first visit in June 1982 and in April 1999 during the
"Millennium Bugout.")

GIANT ROCK SPLITS, CAUSING
MUCH SPECULATION IN THE
NEW AGE COMMUNITY

      Giant Rock, a gathering place for UFO enthusiasts
and contactees for nearly fifty years, broke apart
unexpectedly on Monday, February 21, 2000, fueling
speculation that the event might be "a sign of the
end of the age."
      "Before Monday morning (February 21), Giant Rock
was considered by many the largest boulder in the
world.  It is now two boulders."
      "A slice of the rock fell off from the boulder at
8:20 a.m. Monday, exposing a gleaming white granite
interior."
      "In ancient times, the Giant Rock was held sacred
by the Native (indigenous) peoples of the Joshua Tree,
California area.  So sacred in fact that only the chief
was allowed to go near it.  Everyone else had to wait
nearly a mile away while the chief communed with the
spirits of the 'Rock People' who had predicted the day
when the Mother would split open, and a new era would
be revealed."
(Editor's Note:  Geologists consider Giant Rock to be an
"erratic" deposited during the last Ice Age.  The indigenous
Chemehueve people, however, believe that their ancestors
witnessed the rock's arrival.  They say it drifted down from
a clear blue sky as slowly and as lightly as a soap bubble.)
      "Many other traditions have pointed to this time in
our history as the surfacing of the Divine Feminine, to a
world based upon consciousness and peace.  Now that
Giant Rock has split, many people feel that the prophecy
has been fulfilled."  (See the newspaper High Desert Star
for February 23, 2000, "Giant Rock Splits--Ancient
Prophecy Fulfilled," page   Many thanks to Errol Bruce-
Knapp for forwarding this newspaper article.)
      Giant Rock has had a long association with the
UFO community.  According to The Encyclopedia of
UFOs, "Between 1954 and 1970, the biggest annual
event in the world of UFO contactees and their
followers was the Giant Rock Space Convention,"
which was organized by George W. Van Tassell
(1910-1978), affectionately known as "Van."
      Van Tassell, "a well-known contactee, was the
operator of the Giant Rock airport, located 17 miles
(27 kilometers) north of Yucca Valley," near the
town of Landers (population 1,500).  Giant Rock
is just off California Highway 247 about 85 miles
(137 kilometers) east of Los Angeles.
      According to author Jim Brandon, "'Van,' as he is
called by his worldwide circle of admirers, is (was)
perhaps the last of the post-World War Two flying
saucer contactees.  His book, I Rode A Flying Saucer,
achieved  less of a following than did the writings of
his late friends and namesakes, George Adamski and
George Hunt Williamson," but Van did inspire a
number of UFO-related projects, including his College of
Universal Wisdom (CUW) in Yucca Valley, the nnual
Giant Rock Space Convention, and the construction
of the Integatron.
     Claiming to have been instructed by space aliens,
Van Tassell designed the Integatron, "a 40-foot domed
structure" which Van described "as a high-powered
generator of 'biolelectrical energies.'"
      Long before "Pyramid Power" and pyramid hats
became the rage in 1975, George W. Van Tassell
was printing articles in Proceedings, his monthly
magazine, on pyramids and their occult energies.
      Van Tassell claimed that the Integatron when
"finally completed, it will be used to complete
rejuvenation, anti-gravity and time-travel experiments."
(See The Encyclopedia of UFOs, edited by Ronald
D. Story, Dolphin Books, Doubleday and Co., Inc.,
Garden City, N.Y., 1980, page 149.  See also
Weird America by Jim Brandon, E.P. Dutton Books,
New York, N.Y., 1978, pages 30 and 31.)

from the UFO Files...

1910: UNFORGETTABLE
            JACINTA MARTO

      Our Reader's Digest-style biography actually
begins in 1897, the year of the "Great Airship Mystery"
or UFO flap here in the USA.  That was the year
Manuel Pedro Marto, 24, a cabo (corporal) in the
Portuguese Army returned home after a tour of duty
in Mozambique.  Settling in the village of Aljustrel, in
the Serra da Aire mountains of central Portugal, he
met and married Olimpia de Jesus dos Santos de Rosa,
28, a widow with two children.
      They soon added to Olimpia's two kids, and by 1909,
the total number of kids in the household had climbed
to ten.  Number Eleven, a baby girl, was born on March 11,
1910.  They called her Jacinta (Portuguese for Hyacinth--
J.T.)
      Jacinta "was as quick and blithe as a bird, always
running or jumping or dancing.  For Jacinta had been
spoiled a little, too, as the baby of a large family, and
she could pout or sulk on slight provocation."
      Yes, Jacinta was the family brat.  Like most pre-
schoolers, she went through a possessive phase.
"That's mine!" she would say, swiping an item from
a sibling.  "That's mine, too!"
     In exasperation, her older brother Joao asked,
"Does everything in this house belong to you?"
      Jacinta replied, "Well...yes!"
      She seemed drawn to religious symbols.  In
1913, at the home of her cousin and playmate,
Lucia Abobora dos Santos, Jacinta took the
crucifix "from the wall and was looking at it
affectionately" when her aunt, Maria Rosa dos
Santos de Abobora  (Lucia's mother--J.T.) "came
in and, thinking Lucia was to blame, began to scold."
      "Tia Maria, don't spank her!" Jacinta pleaded,
"It was all my fault.  I won't do it again."
      Jacinta was very close to her immediate older
brother, Francisco, who was born on June 11, 1908,
and her cousin Lucia, also born that year.
      Anton Chekhov once remarked, "Happy families
are all the same.  But each unhappy family is
unhappy in its own way."  The Abobora household
presented a sharp contrast to the joyful chaos at
the Marto place.  Lucia, the daughter of an alcoholic
father and a hot-tempered, physically-abusive mother,
found solace in religion.  She was also a precocious
child and made her First Communion at the age of
six, surprising Father Pena, their parish priest, with
her understanding of Roman Catholic doctrine.
      In May 1914, seeing her cousin in her white First
Communion dress, Jacinta wanted to be part of the
ceremony, too.  So she prevailed upon Lucia to coach
her in Catholic doctrine.
      Jacinta's First Communion test, however, was a
theological disaster.
      Father Pena:  "Now then, Jacinta, how many gods
are there?"
      Jacinta: "Three!  The Father, the Son and
What's-his-name."
      Father Pena: "Why do we go to Mass?"
      Jacinta: "To sing and be happy."
      "Poor Jacinta!  How she grieved!  Yet it was not her
nature to brood over past defeats when there were still
victories to be gained."
      In June 1914, Maria Rosa, strapped for cash, put
her daughter Lucia to work as a shepherdess.  Manuel
Marto thought his son Francisco should become one,
as well, sort of introducing the boy to the world of
work.  And with her two playmates heading up into the
serra with their flocik of sheep, Jacinta just had to go
along, too.
      One day in July 1914, the trio was tending a flock
of sheep on the Cabeco (Portuguese for head--J.T.) a
promontory overlooking the heavily-wooded extinct
volcano known as Cova da Iria, when sharp-eyed
Jacinta spotted something unusual in the clear blue
summer sky.
      In her 1937 memoir, Lucia described it as
"a figure like a statue made of snow which the rays
of the sun had turned somewhat transparent."
(Editor's Comment: Sounds like a UFO to me.)
      In September 1914, Jacinta, Francisco and Lucia
saw the object again.
      It returned for the third time in July 1915.
      By now everyone in Aljustrel had heard about
these incidents and joked about them.  An irate
Maria Rosa confronted Lucia.  "Now let us see.
What was it you say you saw over there?"
      "I don't know, Mama," Lucia replied, "I don't
know what it was."
      Well, first it was the UFO.  Then it was an angel.
Then the Archangel Michael and the Angel of Peace,
and finally, on May 13, 1917, a visit from the Virgin
Mary, who swore the children to secrecy.
      Jacinta meant to keep the promise.  But, after
all, she was only seven years old, and this was
the biggest thing that had ever happened to her.
She just had to share it with the most important
person in her life--her mother.
      "The child ran to clasp her about the knees.
And out it came...'Mother, I saw Our Lady today
at Cova da Iria!'"
      Olimpia merely laughed.  "I believe you, child.
Oh, yes, you are such a good saint that you see
Our Lady!"
      "But I saw her!" Jacinta insisted.
      Something in Jacinta's tone of voice convinced
Olimpia.  She told the children's father.  Manuel,
the hard-headed ex-soldier, carefully cross-examined
both Jacinta and Francisco.  He, too, was convinced.
The children used words and phrases far beyond
their youthful levels of comprehension.
      From there the news spread all over Portugal,
and the crowds descended on Cova da Iria, both the
faithful and the curiosity-seekers.
      Through July and August 1917, Jacinta began to
see strange visions of the future.  Scenes of the
Great Depression of the 1930s and World War II.
And another featuring a Pope of the future.
      One day, Francisco and Lucia found the little
girl sitting beside the well, staring off into space.
Presently she asked them, "Don't you see the
Holy Father?""
      No," they replied.
      "I don't know how it is," Jacinta said, "But I
see the Holy Father in a very large building, on his
knees before a table, with his hands over his face,
crying.  In front of the building there are many people
and some are throwing stones at him, others are
cursing him and saying very foul words to him.
Poor little Holy Father!  We must pray a lot for him!"
      Word of the pint-sized seers finally reached the
ears of Magahaes Lima, the Illuminatus of Leiria.
He ordered his subordinate, Arturo de Oliveira Santos,
district administrator of Ourem and a fellow member
of the Grand Orient Masonic lodge in Leiria, to "do
something" about these kids.
      On August 11, 1917, Jacinta, Francisco and Lucia
were arrested by the police and tossed into the district
prison at Ourem.
      As Jacinta herself might have put it, the kids were
"in deep poo-poo," locked up with thieves, pimps,
alcoholics, dope dealers and armed robbers.  The
two girls began weeping.  "I want to see my mother!"
Jacinta moaned, "I want my mother!"
(Editor's Note:  At the same time the Fatima kids were
in prison, another mystic, Mrs. Annie Wood Besant,
was under house arrest in India for protesting the
insane carnage of World War One.)
      At Francisco's suggestion, the trio knelt on the
floor and began to pray.
      Maybe it was seeing the three innocents in
prayer.  Or maybe the convicts were too smart
to do the Illuminati's dirty work for them.  In any
event, they didn't harm the children, who spent
many hours looking out the barred window.
      "We'll be all right," Lucia said, "Our Lady will
never abandon us."
      "I know," Jacinta sighed.  "But I can't stop
thinking about my mother."
      Hoping to cheer them up, one convict produced
a harmonica and offered to play a few tunes.
(Editor's Comment:  I wonder if he did Red River Valley?
That's what they played for Tom Horn the night before
he was hanged in Wyoming.)
      Hearing the music, Jacinta immediately brightened.
"I can dance the fandango," she said, "And the vira."
      "Prove it!" a convict challenged.
      So Jacinta and her partner danced around the
cell, although, as Lucia reported, "she was so small
he had to carry her while she had her arms around
his neck."  They sang many Portuguese ballads,
including Jacinta's favorite, A Serrana (Mountain Girl).
      Following their release, the kids returned to Cova
da iria for the tumultuous events of October 13, 1917,
in which thousands of onlookers witnessed what they
called "a solar miracle."
      That was the end of the Marian apparitions but
Jacinta's strange visions continued.  The Martos
could not get over the change in their youngest
daughter.  She seemed more thoughtful, more mature,
less impulsive and given to curious insights into people.
      In May 1918, Jacinta took the First Communion exam
again.  This time she stunned the parish priest with her
flawless answers.  "She speaks with the voice of a saint,"
he remarked.
      But tragedy was on the horizon.  The Spanish
influenza epidemic that ravaged Europe in 1919 arrived
in Aljustrel in January.  Francisco succumbed quickly.
Jacinta came down with pleurisy and lingered for
months.
      In April 1919, she told Lucia, "Our Lady says my
mother will take me to a hospital in a dark building,
and that I would not get well."
      In July 1919, Manuel took his dying daughter to
the hospital in Ourem.  It was a white, well-lit
building, and the family thought that, for once, a
Jacinta prediction had not come true.
      On December 29, 1919, Jacinta had a second
vision of what she called "the dark hospital,"
telling cousin Lucia, "Our Lady told me I am going
to Lisboa, to another hospital.  I will die there,
but someday I will return to Cova da Iria."
      On February 2, 1920, Jacinta was taken to the
Hospital of Dona Stefania in Lisboa.  It was, just as
she predicted, a dark, dreary old building.  Upon
admission, she was assigned to Bed #38 in the
children's ward on the first floor.
      Two weeks later, on February 16, 1920, at 10:30
p.m.,Jacinta Marto passed away.  She was twenty-
four days shy of her tenth birthday.
      The miracles, however, did not end with Jacinta's
death.  In 1935, her grave was opened, and the little
girl's body was found to be perfectly preserved.
There was no trace of deterioration.  A witness
commented, "She looked as if she were sleeping."
      In 1972, one of the people in attendance at a
Marian apparition in Bayside, New York, USA
took Polaroid photographs of strange lights in the
night sky over the old Vatican pavilion at the
former site of the 1964 New York World's Fair.
When the Polaroid photo developed, it showed
a name written in light, Jacinta, in the girl's
own handwriting.
      Such was the life of Jacinta Marto, the little
girl who never became a teenager but who is well
on her way to becoming the Nostradamus of
Portugal.  (See the book Our Lady of Fatima by
William Thomas Walsh, Macmillan Co., New
York, N.Y., 1947, pages 16, 17, 22, 23, 54, 55,
112, 174 and 175.  See also Jacinta--Episodos
Mweditos das Aparicoes da Nossa Senhora by
Jose Galamba de Oliveira.)

FUN UFO WEBSITES:
      Circulo Ovniologico Riocuartense (COR) is a
UFO study group based in the city of Rio Cuarto,
Cordoba province, Argentina.  They banded together
back in 1978 and have compiled an impressive array
of UFO material at their site.  Webmaster Mario Luis
Bracamonte invites everyone to visit their site at
http://www.angelfire.com/co/ovnicor

      Join us next week for more UFO and paranormal
news from around the Earth, brought to you by
"the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."  Have
a great week!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2000 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO Roundup on their websites
or in newsgroups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue in which the item first appeared..
*********************************************************
IMPORTANT Please Read:
======================

The Hunger Site
---------------
http://www.thehungersite.com

Every 3.6 seconds somebody starves to death. 3/4 of the
deaths are children under 5. By visiting the Hunger Site
and clicking on a button you can donate free food.

There is absolutely no charge to you for the donation -
the food is paid for by sponsors.

Do this once a day (no more) and help make a difference!
If you have a web site download a banner and give a link!
*********************************************************

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm


Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of the UK UFO Network Bulletin,
AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences,
UFO + PSI Magazine also available, plus archives of
Filer's Files.









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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Mar > Mar 9

                         Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies

From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:44:55 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 14:21:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies


 >Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:27:08 -0500
 >From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 04:57:54 -0500 (EST)
 >>>>From: Karoline Leach <KarolineLouise@aol.com>
 >>>>Subject: Supposed Time-Anomalies
 >>>>To: updates@sympatico.ca (UFO UpDates - Toronto)<

Karoline wrote:

 >>If these things did - genuinely - originate from these ancient
 >>deposits, then they obviously mean that our present
 >>understanding of life on earth is seriously up the creek.

<snip>

Lesley responded:

 >Please forgive me if I seem to gloat over this sudden appearance
 >of an intelligent paradigm in which to view archaeological and
 >other unknowns, including UFOs, and the fact that it came from
 >a fellow member of the feminine species.

Lesley, since when did women become a separate species and how
do you become a "member" of said species?

Tim Haley









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Mar > Mar 9

                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 00:47:07 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 14:29:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:56:33 -0600 (CST)
 >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:43:13 -0500
 >>From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
 >>Subject: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Thought I'd give a bit of forewarning to the list. See article
 >>below:

 >>http://www.azcentral.com/news/0307ufo.shtml

 >>Sky lights to be flares, not UFOs,Guard says

 >>By Dave Walker
 >>The Arizona Republic
 >>March 7, 2000

 >>Look to the sky, conspiracy buffs: See the spheres of light
 >>floating eerily in the night sky.

 >>It's... the return of the fabled 'Phoenix lights!'

 >>Actually, it's a flare-lit night-training exercise, which the
 >>Arizona Air National Guard says will be conducted this week and
 >>next on the Barry M. Goldwater Range near Gila Bend.

 >>A similar scenario - almost exactly three years ago - sparked an
 >>ongoing run of UFO buzz over the mysterious lights in the sky.

 >Since they're doing us the service of announcing it this time,
 >somebody out in Phoenix should get video of the exercise from a
 >comparable distance, and see if the results appear roughly the
 >same as the Phoenix lights of two years ago.  It would be
 >interesting to know if the videos look similar or not.

 >Somebody should also monitor whether Luke AFB launches jets on
 >afterburners to investigate those flares, and then later denies
 >that any were sent up at all :-)

 >This of course follows the sound scientific principal of
 >establishing a comparative baseline or "control" when conducting
 >an experiment.

 >My two cents,

 >  -Brian C.

Here's my two cents. What do you want to bet that they won't be
able to see the flares dropped at the Goldwater range? 50 miles
away, flares at a few thousand feet at most. Never did was with
me.

Don Ledger







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   Mar > Mar 9

                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 00:48:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 14:32:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 08:26:36 -0800
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:43:13 -0500
 >>From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
 >>Subject: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Thought I'd give a bit of forewarning to the list. See article
 >>below:

 >>http://www.azcentral.com/news/0307ufo.shtml

 >>Sky lights to be flares, not UFOs, Guard says

 >>By Dave Walker
 >>The Arizona Republic
 >>March 7, 2000

 >>Look to the sky, conspiracy buffs: See the spheres of light
 >>floating eerily in the night sky.

 >>It's... the return of the fabled 'Phoenix lights!'

 >>Actually, it's a flare-lit night-training exercise, which the
 >>Arizona Air National Guard says will be conducted this week and
 >>next on the Barry M. Goldwater Range near Gila Bend.

 >>A similar scenario - almost exactly three years ago - sparked an
 >>ongoing run of UFO buzz over the mysterious lights in the sky.

 >>This time, a tactical media blitz has preceded the invasion of
 >>the parachute-borne flares. Dubbed Operation Snowbird, the
 >>exercises involve jets and helicopters from Air Guard squadrons
 >>in Michigan, California and New York.

 >>They are scheduled from 8:30 to 10 p.m. tonight through Thursday
 >>and for March 13-16. Weather permitting, that is - Monday
 >>night's eerie night-sky activities were scrubbed due to rain.


 >At least they warned in advance this time!

 >Best wishes

 >- Larry Hatch

Hello Larry,

You're absolutely right! What a very "limited" press release it
was though eh? I wonder how and if this ties in with Gersten's
"CAUS"... no pun intended... :) Funny thing is, I've heard no
replies from the list from anyone from the Arizona area yet.

As Bruce stated in his report, "The witnesses, however, have
stated that they would be convinced only if it can be positively
demonstrated that flares dropped at high altitude and distances
greater than 60 miles appear as they lights they saw and
videotaped. This demonstration could be accomplished at some
time when flares are being dropped by having a coordinated
observation plan ready to carry out upon notification of flare
drops. One or more observers close to the test area would
videotape and record the timing and visual appearance of specific
flares while simultaneously having observers at great distance,
such as in Phoenix, also observing and recording the same
flares. Coordination could be accomplished using cell phones so
that there is no question of what was being seen close-up and at
great distances."

I would sure hate to see this opportunity passed up! And I
suggest we keep an eye on the NUFORC site, I bet we see a sudden
surge in reports from that area, from the unaware Arizona
dwellers, fulfilling your prophecy in your other e-mail.

Sit back and let the show begin!... :)

Todd
http://members.home.net/tlemire/UFOCENTRAL.html
--
An expert may be defined as someone who can make you feel stupid
for offering your opinion. Fortunately, as physicist Philip
Morrison once said, ufology "is a field in which there aren't any
experts.








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   Mar > Mar 9

                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 09:02:45 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 14:40:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


What a oportune time to test some black project craft, or for a
black triangle to make maneuvers ; -)

As we all know by now, the major press has one eye shut and one
hand tied. Simultaneous sightings of entirely different events
can, have, and do occur.

Make sure there is film in your cameras and keep an eye on the
sky folks.

http://www.ufoseek.org








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                     Sighting Report OZ File 27.03.2000

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:32:54 +1100
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 14:42:39 -0500
Subject: Sighting Report OZ File 27.03.2000


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia -
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw/new

1800 Callin Code: FOLLOWUP Charmaine Ballam AUFORN SA

1800 Callin Code: 00600 27.02.2000 [SA]

Date reported: 27.02.2000
Day: Sunday
Time Reported: 09.50AM
Location: South Australia
Reportee: Sharon Hayman
Report given to nearest rep: Charmaine Ballam
Tel:


REPORT:
Shape: Orb/ball
Colour: Orange
Objects: 1
Sound: Nil
Duration: 5 mins
Time: 1.15am
Direction: East to West - low altitude
Night Sky: Clear with high wispy clouds
Witnesses: Sharon, her husband and 2 [older]children

Sharon, with her husband and children were returning from her
brother's 50th birthday and arrived home at 1.15am.

Whilst getting out of the car in their driveway she happen to
glance up at the night sky and saw a orange orb/ball shaped
object. She told her husband, who also then looked up and saw
the same object. Sharon has 2 older children who were with her
at the time, also saw the same object.

They stood and watched it travel slowly from East to West, this
took approx. 5 mins. During that time, one of her older children
raced inside to obtain one of the younger children's binocular.
Even though, the binoculars were basically 'toy' ones, her
husband used them and said that he faintly saw a tail at the end
of the orange orb/ball.

As they watched it, it passed 'underneath' the wispy clouds that
were in the night sky, thereby giving them a good indication
that this object was not as high up as a satellite would be.
Upon discussion with her husband and children she ruled out, the
following : a meteorite and a plane, [as she stated to me: " at
1.15am in Adelaide, there are certainly no planes flying, plus
where I live the planes flight paths never come that way"].

Regards,
Charmaine Ballam AUFORN rep SA


Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood Qld 4127
Australia
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   Mar > Mar 9

               Ron Knight - ex-CFGM-AM, Richmond Hill, Ontario

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 14:58:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 14:58:05 -0500
Subject: Ron Knight - ex-CFGM-AM, Richmond Hill, Ontario

Would any Canadian readers happen to know the whereabouts
and/or telephone number of Ron Knight a talkshow host with
CFGM-AM [now gone] in Richmond Hill, Ontario, circa 1977?

I had two numbers for Ron back in '96, used them both and
connected with him. Now, those numbers are disconnected.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Errol








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               NASA: Space Shuttle Processing Report Available

From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 10:10:20 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 15:05:43 -0500
Subject: NASA: Space Shuttle Processing Report Available


Brian Welch
Headquarters, Washington, DC  March 9, 2000
(Phone:  202/358-1600)

Donald Savage
Headquarters, Washington, DC
(Phone:  202/358-1727)

Dwayne Brown
Headquarters, Washington, DC
(Phone:  202/358-1726)

NOTE TO EDITORS:  N00-7

SPACE SHUTTLE PROCESSING REPORT AVAILABLE TODAY;
OTHER REVIEW REPORTS TO BE RELEASED THIS MONTH

The work of four review teams chartered by NASA to study its
programs and practices is nearing completion, with reports
scheduled for release today, next week and later in March.

The first report, to be released today, will be that of the
Space Shuttle Independent Assessment Team, chartered in
September 1999 and led by Ames Research Center Director Dr.
Henry McDonald.  NASA Associate Administrator for Space Flight
Joseph Rothenberg asked this independent technical team to study
Space Shuttle maintenance and operations processes, provide a
perspective of best practices in the aviation industry, and
where applicable or appropriate apply those practices to the
Space Shuttle Program.  That report will be available on the
NASA Home Page (www.nasa.gov) at Noon Eastern time on Thursday.

Two additional reports will be released on Monday March 13, also
at Noon Eastern time via the NASA Home Page:  the report on
Faster, Better, Cheaper Project Management, and the final Report
on Project Management in NASA by the Mars Climate Orbiter Mishap
Investigation Board.

The report led by former Mars Pathfinder Project Manager Tony
Spear was chartered by the Office of the Chief Engineer in mid-
1999 to make recommendations on a set of principles, tools and
processes for ensuring NASA�s success in adopting the �Faster,
Better, Cheaper� approach to project planning, management and
execution.

The Mars Climate Orbiter Phase I Report, released Nov. 10,
1999, identified the root cause and factors contributing to the
Mars Climate Orbiter failure.  The charter for this Phase II
report, also led by Marshall Space Flight Center Director Art
Stephenson, is to derive lessons learned from that failure and
from other failed missions - as well as successful ones - and from
them create a formula for future mission success.

An additional report, from the Mars Independent Assessment Team
chaired by Thomas Young, will be available by the end of March.
The team was chartered by Associate Administrator for Space
Science Dr. Ed Weiler in the wake of the Mars Polar Lander
failure to evaluate recent successful and unsuccessful deep
space missions.  Their assessment and findings will be
considered in planning for future Mars exploration missions.

- end -

    * * *

NASA press releases and other information are available
automatically by sending an Internet electronic mail message to
domo@hq.nasa.gov. In the body of the message (not the subject
line) users should type the words "subscribe press-release" (no
quotes).  The system will reply with a confirmation via E-mail
of each subscription.  A second automatic message will include
additional information on the service. NASA releases also are
available via CompuServe using the command GO NASA.  To
unsubscribe from this mailing list, address an E-mail message to
domo@hq.nasa.gov, leave the subject blank, and type only
"unsubscribe press-release" (no quotes) in the body of the
message.








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                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:46:54 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:18:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 00:48:04 -0500
 >From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 08:26:36 -0800
 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:43:13 -0500
 >>>From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
 >>>Subject: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Hello Larry,

 >You're absolutely right! What a very "limited" press release it
 >was though eh? I wonder how and if this ties in with Gersten's
 >"CAUS"... no pun intended... :) Funny thing is, I've heard no
 >replies from the list from anyone from the Arizona area yet.

 >As Bruce stated in his report, "The witnesses, however, have
 >stated that they would be convinced only if it can be positively
 >demonstrated that flares dropped at high altitude and distances
 >greater than 60 miles appear as they lights they saw and
 >videotaped. This demonstration could be accomplished at some
 >time when flares are being dropped by having a coordinated
 >observation plan ready to carry out upon notification of flare
 >drops. One or more observers close to the test area would
 >videotape and record the timing and visual appearance of specific
 >flares while simultaneously having observers at great distance,
 >such as in Phoenix, also observing and recording the same
 >flares. Coordination could be accomplished using cell phones so
 >that there is no question of what was being seen close-up and at
 >great distances."

 >I would sure hate to see this opportunity passed up! And I
 >suggest we keep an eye on the NUFORC site, I bet we see a sudden
 >surge in reports from that area, from the unaware Arizona
 >dwellers, fulfilling your prophecy in your other e-mail.

 >Sit back and let the show begin!... :)


Hello Todd:

That sounds like a fine experiment! I hope somebody can do it.
I doubt it would do much to change the opinions of certain folks
however.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

  - - - - -









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              TMP News: TMP/UFO*BC 'Strange Days' Presentation

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 21:20:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:23:15 -0500
Subject: TMP News: TMP/UFO*BC 'Strange Days' Presentation



TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

March 9, 2000

_____________________________


UPCOMING TMP/UFO*BC 'STRANGE DAYS' PRESENTATION IN VANCOUVER



STRANGE DAYS: NEW PERSPECTIVES ON THE NEXT MILLENNIUM

PAUL ANDERSON
Founder
The Millennium Project

GRAHAM CONWAY
President
UFO*BC

Monday, March 20, 2000
7:30 - 9:30 PM
Barclay Manor House
1447 Barclay Street, Vancouver
(affiliated with the West End Community Centre)

FREE ADMISSION
Call 604-257-8333 to Pre-Register
(please book ahead as seating is limited; this presentation is
part of Barclay Manor's Monday Night Free Lecture Series)

FURTHER INFORMATION:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT
Tel:731.8522 or 727.1454
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

BARCLAY MANOR HOUSE
Tel: 257.8349

_____________________________


See also News and Reports on the TMP web site for complete
listings of news stories and reports, as well as Continuum for
related news, information and links:

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing weekly briefings of the latest relevant news
stories and reports, as well as information and updates on
TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul Anderson
and published by TMP, and is available free by subscription; to
be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request,
including "subscribe TMP News" or "unsubscribe TMP News" and
e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522
Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000









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                    Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:33:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:56:54 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures


 >Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:55:37 -0500
 >From: Victor J.Kean <VICTOR_J_KEAN@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 20:17:34 -0500
 >>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
 >>Subject: UFO Activity After Base Closures
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Ever since my sighting at the Canadian Forces Station
 >>Falconbridge, Sudbury, Ontario base in October 1990 (the base
 >>closed in 1987), I've been wondering the same thing!?

 >Hallo Michel,

 >Would you happen to know the precise date and time of your
 >sighting ?



Victor,

Yes, I do.  Between 8:30 p.m. and 8:55 p.m.  FYI: On Tuesday, Ocotber 9,
1990, Venus had set with the sun and Jupiter did not rise until 12:00 a.m.
(astronomical info I received from a member of the local astronomy club).

Cordially,

Michel










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                         PRG Press Release - 3/10/00

From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 03:35:08 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:06:01 -0500
Subject: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00


                         PRG
                Paradigm Research Group

Press Release

March 10, 2000

Washington, DC - Public awareness of the politics of
UFOs/disclosure continues to grow.  Over a span of six
days, a confluence of media events, based in part or in
full on UFO/ET phenomena, has taken place.

�   Friday marks the sixth day of The Learning Channel's
     annual Alien Invasion Week, which ends tomorrow.
     Sponsored in part by major corporations such as
     MCIWorldcom, Charles Schwab and Ford Motor Company,
     it consists of nine documentaries, many of which hold
     political content addressing the government posture on
     UFO/ET phenomena.  A website accompanies the series.

�   On Monday, March 6 Turner Network Television (TNT)
     aired the television premier of Contact based upon Carl
     Sagan's novel about first contact with intelligent
     extraterrestrial life. The film was modified to include much
     political content addressing how government deals with
     "special" information.

�   Today, Disney's Touchstone Pictures opens Mission to Mars,

     the Brian DePalma picture that incorporates UFO/ET research
     community work on the Cydonia region of Mars.  Notably, just
     two weeks before the opening, Touchstone Pictures began
     running trailer ads, which refer to a 25-year cover-up by
     NASA of evidence for artificiality.  This trailer shows the
     well-known Viking "Face" photograph.

In Washington, Stephen Bassett, the founder of Paradigm Research
Group and Executive Director of X-PPAC, the Extraterrestrial
Phenomena Political Action Committee, had this comment: "One of
the most important issues addressed by the politics of
UFOs/disclosure is NASA being caught in the middle between its
scientific role as the civilian space agency and the requirement
under the National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958 that NASA
must defer to the Department of Defense in all matters relating
to national security.  Subsequent research has shown that all
evidence for extraterrestrial intelligent life, past or present,
is considered by the government to be in this category."

As to what specifically might happen in the weeks following the
movie and television airings this week, he added, "Two things
come to mind.

First, the person who has done more than anyone else to confront
NASA on Cydonia and raise the specter of sequestered evidence is
Richard C. Hoagland of the Enterprise Mission.  Every talk show
in the county should have him on in the coming weeks, along with
a NASA spokesperson, to debate the implications of that ad
trailer.

Second, every person who sees this movie should go home and fax
NASA, their congressional representatives, and the major
networks demanding that NASA produce new and higher quality
photographs of every square inch of the Cydonia region of Mars
until such time as all interested public and scientists are
satisfied they have the best their space agency can provide."

Contacts:

Alien Invasion Week:
    http://tlc.discovery.com/tlcpages/encounters/encounters.html


Mission to Mars:   URL: http://studio.go.com/m2m/index.html

Enterprise Mission
    Fax: 505-771-0820
    URL: http://www.enterprisemission.com

X-PPAC:  URL: http://www.x-ppac.org

Paradigm Research Group
    Phone:  301-564-1820
    Email:  ParadigmRG@aol.com
    URL: http://www.paradigmclock.com









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                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:03:11 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:15:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:46:54 -0800
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 00:48:04 -0500
 >>From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Hello Larry,

 >>You're absolutely right! What a very "limited" press release it
 >>was though eh? I wonder how and if this ties in with Gersten's
 >>"CAUS"... no pun intended... :) Funny thing is, I've heard no
 >>replies from the list from anyone from the Arizona area yet.

 >>As Bruce stated in his report, "The witnesses, however, have
 >>stated that they would be convinced only if it can be positively
 >>demonstrated that flares dropped at high altitude and distances
 >>greater than 60 miles appear as they lights they saw and
 >>videotaped. This demonstration could be accomplished at some
 >>time when flares are being dropped by having a coordinated
 >>observation plan ready to carry out upon notification of flare
 >>drops. One or more observers close to the test area would
 >>videotape and record the timing and visual appearance of specific
 >>flares while simultaneously having observers at great distance,
 >>such as in Phoenix, also observing and recording the same
 >>flares. Coordination could be accomplished using cell phones so
 >>that there is no question of what was being seen close-up and at
 >>great distances."

 >>I would sure hate to see this opportunity passed up! And I
 >>suggest we keep an eye on the NUFORC site, I bet we see a sudden
 >>surge in reports from that area, from the unaware Arizona
 >>dwellers, fulfilling your prophecy in your other e-mail.

 >>Sit back and let the show begin!... :)

 >Hello Todd:

 >That sounds like a fine experiment! I hope somebody can do it.
 >I doubt it would do much to change the opinions of certain folks
 >however.


Hi Larry and Todd,

I'm not sure I understand the thrust of these comments.

Perhaps I missed something important over the last year or so.
Maybe I was too busy on other things to notice, but am I to
understand that this Pheonix sighting has been solved? A rock
solid explanation has been presented?

Lemme know, because anything I have seen offered so far as an
explanation seems weak, particularly the flare explanation. Too
far away and too close to the ground to be seen in Pheonix.

Don








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   Mar > Mar 10

                          NASA UFO Footage Release

From: Giuliano 'Jimmy' Marinkovic <c9a4ag@9a0tcp.ampr.org>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:47:53 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:23:27 -0500
Subject: NASA UFO Footage Release


Hello to the list :)

I have just received new info about the upcoming NASA UFO
footage release from the mailing list of the IRC channel #UFO
of Undernet.

The first time NASA UFO footage was shown was at a UFO
conference in Leeds, UK, last year and at the recent UFO
conference in Australia.

Soon footage will be shown at the Nevada UFO conference and then
it seems there will be some good implications... hope that the
press will catch the story this time so the debate could start
all over the place.

The complete material should soon be available to the public.

Here is the copy of the announcement from mail manager of that
mailing list that I mentioned, above:


Message #5
From: Anthony Chippendale <anthonyc@ufon.org>
To: 9a4ag@alwgw.kb5cdx.ampr.org
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:00:27 -0000
Subject: [UFOinfo] Secret NASA Transmission

I would just like to remind everyone that at 0830 GMT tomorrow
morning full details of the new NASA footage will be uploaded to
UFO Magazine (UK)'s website at:

http://www.ufomag.co.uk

Anthony.



================================================================
Giuliano Marinkovicc - Jimmy (AGETI_MASTER)
Post Address: Ante Starchevicca 25/C
               23000 Zadar, Croatia, Europe
Telephone number for international calls: +385-23-430-970
Telephone number for calls inside Croatia: 023/430-970
E-mails: 9a4ag@clarc.org, 9a4ag@9a0tcp.ampr.org,
          9a4ag@n7nei.wagate.com, 9a4ag@alwgw.kb5cdx.ampr.org,
          ageti01@nether.net
Packet Radio HOME BBS address: 9A4AG@9A0YSI.#SBK.HRV.EU

================================================================
AGETI WW HAMRADIO GROUP/Analytical Group for Extra-Terrestrial Information
AGETI E-mail list (croatian language): ageti@sdf.lonestar.org
9A4AG's and AGETI Home page: http://www.clarc.org/~9a4ag
AMPRn HAMRADIO telnet conference: UFO channel 1947
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
AGETI is a group of radio-amateurs and co-operators from electronic media
who are exchanging world wide information, views and news about the
extra-terrestrial and ufology subject!
==========================================================================









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   Mar > Mar 11

                                Re: Reed Hoax

From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:05:37 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 09:31:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Reed Hoax


 >>Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:13:42 -0800
 >>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>Subject: Reed Hoax
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>As many of you know, Jonathan Reed and his partner Robert Raith
 >>are at the International UFO Congress conference in Nevada
 >>trying to sell their scam to the public.

<snip>

I just received the following message from someone who attended
the IUFO Congress meeting:

-----

What a show it was!

My girlfriend and I witnessed an Oscar winner performance of the
Reed/Raith IUFOC Show.

However, what I especially found interesting was the reaction of
the lap dog audience. They ate it up!

"You are Heroes!" and "You're among friends" was their response.

Reed/Raith made many references to how in this country you
should able to speak freely. Everyone cheered them on.

However that same feeling wasn't there for anyone that that
questioned their story in the slightest degree.

During a question and answer period some asked "point of order"
type questions about the video (i.e. "How was the sound so clear
considering that the mic. on the video camera should have been
turned away from your face?", "How did the camera stay so steady
considering that you where so out of breath?").

The audience treated these innocuous questions with hostility
reserved for murders and child molesters.  "Get the hell at of
here!" along with groans of disgust was the audience's reaction.

The first amendment must only apply to people who speak the
truth they want to hear. As long as people like that are part
of the "UFO Community", people like Reed/Raith will flourish. I
find the whole thing amazing.

I am not yet bulletin board member, you may post this if you
like.

Steve Skye
SSkye@skyelighting.com

-----









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   Mar > Mar 11

                  Latest UFO Info + New Bigfoot Recordings

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 02:27:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 09:45:26 -0500
Subject: Latest UFO Info + New Bigfoot Recordings


Latest UFO Info + New Bigfoot Recordings - UFO UPDATE: LIVE!

To all:

A super edition of the UFO UPDATE: LIVE! television show has
just been finalized and I saw the program last night.

The program deals with latest information on UFO sightings plus
you will hear some brand new and rather frightening BIGFOOT
recordings made from the Cincinnati area.

Bob Leibold of Natural Light Productions has done a fantastic
job of putting this professional quality television production
together. I was a panelist on the show and was thankful to have
been involved. We are excited about the program and are in hot
discussions about some future projects.

For information on getting a copy of UFO UPDATE: LIVE, see -

         http://UFOUPDATE.tripod.com/ufoupdate.html

thanks,
Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/









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   Mar > Mar 11

                            Jan Aldrich To Quit?

From: Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:36:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:36:41 -0500
Subject: Jan Aldrich To Quit?



The following post to Project 1947 yesterday afternoon was, to
say the least, a heart-stopper:

-----

Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:49:15 -0500
From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
Subject: Leaving Ufology
To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM


Dear List,

I have decided to leave ufology. I have thought out this course
very carefully. During the next week or so, I will try to fill
any outstanding commitments. Also, during this next week I
will reflect on my decision. (Good advice from Bob Girard.) If
at the end of the week I still feel this way, I will start
disposing of my holdings.

The 1947 material will go to CUFOS, material for the McDonald
archives will go to FUFOR and some special Blue Book material to
MUFON.

If someone wants to take over this list and website, we can try
to work out some kind of arrangement.

There are far too many good people here to thank properly. The
Project 1947 list is very rich in friends and fine people.

John Stepkowski and I have never met face to face, but he is one
hell of guy! What would you say, a Cyber-friend. One of the
coolest, funniest and most dependable people I've ever known.
John brought Bill's and Keith's writings to PJ47. What a coup!

There are a lot of knowledgeable people on this list, some
seldom post. Two who do post Joel Carpenter and Brad Sparks may
think that I don't appreciate the amount of thought and research
their writings represent. I recommend that everyone careful note
what they say even though you may disagree with them. When
everyone is thinking alike no one is thinking at all.

I thought the Sign Historical Group was an unique approach to
the UFO problem. I put in a lot of effort on it. This last week
some of the members themselves seem to want to tear it apart. We
couldn't just have disagreements, it had to be scorched earth.
After being on the telephone for hours, and sending a large
number of E-mails, it occurred to me that I had this week free
to write things for the Project 1947 website, but hadn't been
able to get a line down because of what was going on. This was
too much.

It appears to be time to move on to other things.

I shall stay on the list for the next two weeks for those who
have questions or things they want to discuss.

Thanks.

Best regards,

Jan Aldrich

-----

The premature loss of Jan Aldrich does not bear thinking about.

There are few people I admire in this field more than Jan
Aldrich. His dedication to historical research has become legend
among those who know his work. His no nonsense approach and his
tireless energy in archives around North America have been an
inspiration to literally dozens of serious researchers around
this planet. His by-invitation-only e-mail list, PROJECT 1947
has become _the_ discussion base for researchers worldwide.

Jan booted-up his Net-presence on UFO UpDates, shortly after he
visited Sue and I along with Tom & Lise Theofanous here in
Toronto in 1996, whilst looking for material for Project 1947.
There are few in this field that Tom speaks about with even more
hushed-tones than usual. As Tom put it "Jan's a real researcher's
researcher."

Speaking for those 'frostbacks' who have benefited greatly from
Jan's tireless work in the past...

Jan, think twice and then a third time. You cannot be replaced
and should you decide to quit, your loss will severely retard
the work. Besides which, 'they' will win - again.

Errol







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   Mar > Mar 11

                             UFO Over Lima, Peru

From: Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:23:38 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:47:02 -0500
Subject: UFO Over Lima, Peru


Source: Rose Maria Paz Wells, President, Instituto Peruano de
Relaciones Interplanetarias (I.P.R.I.)

UFO OVER LIMA, PERU.

March 10, 2000, 1:30 P.M.- A UFO was videoed and seen by
thousands of people while flying very low over Lima, Peru. The
sighting lasted 15 minutes - enough time for people to see it.
Some witness report small orange spheres, at times, coming out
of the UFO and propelled through the air in different
directions. Dozens of residents called the news media. It was
profesionally videoed, for a few minutes, by Cameraman Juan C.
Amoretti of Panamericana TV, Channel 5.

Channel 5 reporter Viviana Cohello reported in the morning news:

"Last night a UFO was observed by many residents at 1:30 in the
morning. Lights, with strange behavior where seen in the sky of
Lima bringing the attention of hundreds of people.." (On the
television screen; A group of four lights forming a triangle is
seen flying, at unusual low speed, almost over the roof of
houses).

A witness, a girl that works at night, said: "It was a big UFO
with yellow and red lights... And from it, 10 smaller UFOs came
out..."

Reporter Viviana Cohello:

"A lot of phone calls from Callao, Olivos, San Martin de Porres
and Villa el Salvador jammed our telephone lines reporting
the same; a UFO flying over our city".

Another witness; Bruno Guzman, a radio newscaster from Radio
Programas del Peru:

"It amazed me to receive so many calls, testimonies, of what we
saw. We don't have a scientific explanation of what happened
last night. Around one o'clock in the morning we started
receiving phone calls. First, we looked outside from our seventh
floor window. Then we went to our building's roof and there we
could see the lights of distinct colors changing from blue, red
and white, with an unusual motion. We witnessed it for about ten
or fifteen minutes....."


Rose Maria Paz Wells, President,
Instituto Peruano de Relaciones Interplanetarias (I.P.R.I.)

USA representative:
Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/ufomiami/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/1341/index.html









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   Mar > Mar 11

                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:38:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:06:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:03:11 -0300
 >From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:46:54 -0800
 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>Hello Todd:

 >>That sounds like a fine experiment! I hope somebody can do it.
 >>I doubt it would do much to change the opinions of certain folks
 >>however.

 >Hi Larry and Todd,

 >I'm not sure I understand the thrust of these comments.

 >Perhaps I missed something important over the last year or so.
 >Maybe I was too busy on other things to notice, but am I to
 >understand that this Pheonix sighting has been solved? A rock
 >solid explanation has been presented?

 >Lemme know, because anything I have seen offered so far as an
 >explanation seems weak, particularly the flare explanation. Too
 >far away and too close to the ground to be seen in Pheonix.

 >Don


Hello Don,

Check the UFO UpDates archives for the related discussions on
this subject. It involves a current Flare Drop in process over
the Phoenix Area.

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/

Todd
--
An expert may be defined as someone who can make you feel stupid
for offering your opinion.  Fortunately, as physicist Philip
Morrison once said, ufology "is a field in which there aren't any
experts.







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   Mar > Mar 11

                                Re: Reed Hoax

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:40:01 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:13:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Reed Hoax

 >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:05:37 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >I just received the following message from someone who attended
 >the IUFO Congress meeting:

<snip>

Dear Tim:

The situation was much the same here at 142 Jeter Street
(Redwood City, CA) in 1951!


I loved playin "make-believe" as much as any other kids. It was
lots of fun for real.


There are people on this and other lists who cannot quite give
up the fun thing.

Very best wishes

- Larry Hatch

PS: I use scotch whisky and Dutch beer for therapeutic enjoyment
only.









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   Mar > Mar 11

                       Re: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:04:17 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:19:26 -0500
Subject: Re: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00


From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
To: <02 - UFO UpDates Subscribers :;>
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 07:06 Fragment
Subject: UFO UpDate: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00

 >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 03:35:08 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
 >Subject: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00
 >To: undisclosed-recipients: ;

<snip>

 >Today, Disney's Touchstone Pictures opens Mission to Mars,
 >the Brian DePalma picture that incorporates UFO/ET research
 >community work on the Cydonia region of Mars.  Notably, just
 >two weeks before the opening, Touchstone Pictures began
 >running trailer ads, which refer to a 25-year cover-up by
 >NASA of evidence for artificiality.  This trailer shows the
 >well-known Viking "Face" photograph.

<snip>

 >Second, every person who sees this movie should go home and fax
 >NASA, their congressional representatives, and the major
 >networks demanding that NASA produce new and higher quality
 >photographs of every square inch of the Cydonia region of Mars
 >until such time as all interested public and scientists are
 >satisfied they have the best their space agency can provide."

An odd statement.

Since NASA knows nothing and has nothing to hide, no connection
is ever made in the movie to the present "Face on Mars" debate.

And, for the fun of it, there is no reference to UFOs.

The previews gave _me_ the following impression:

A crew goes to Mars and discovers a secret NASA has been hiding
for years for fear of the implications. The secret is so
terrible that you will regret the revelation. It has to do with
ET, of course, as you catch a glimpse of a group of the familiar
silhouettes.

The trailer is a fraud and every person who sees the movie
should go home and fax Touchstone for misrepresentation.

The real story:

People land on Mars in the Cydonia region.

The first Mars landing occurs in Cydonia because... well it just
happens to be that way. They are not looking for anything in
particular, just collecting rocks.

There is no connection whatsoever with the present "Face on
Mars" debate. There is no reference to any previous knowing from
NASA, There is no "hidden secret", no conspiracy.

The story and the reasoning is full of holes - as one should
expect from a multiple authored scenario.

As for the final revelation... it's full of holes too.

Since this is not a movie forum, I'll end it here.

Serge Salvaille









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   Mar > Mar 11

                         Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies

From: Karoline Leach <KarolineLouise@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:51:57 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:31:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies


 >Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:27:08 -0500
 >From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 04:57:54 -0500 (EST)
 >>>>From: Karoline Leach <KarolineLouise@aol.com>
 >>>>Subject: Supposed Time-Anomalies
 >>>>To: updates@sympatico.ca (UFO UpDates - Toronto)<

 >>The trouble is, I fear, that (as with everything else), what
 >>people think about these artefacts is predetermined by their
 >>existing world-view, rather than by the available data. If you
 >>ask a follower of von Daniken, they will tell you the South
 >>African metal balls are proof that 'God' was indeed 'an
 >>astronaut,' (even if said balls turn out to have 'made in
 >>Taiwan' printed on one side).

 >>If you ask a mainstream scientist, they will tell you the same
 >>balls are either forgeries or incorrectly dated (even if there is
 >>no proof for either of these contentions).

 >>Belief truly is the enemy of reason.

 >Now THAT is truly one of the wisest things I have ever read on
 >any ufo list or heard from the mouth of anyone else also totally
 >curious about ufo's and every possibility they hold!

 >>Since there is clearly no proof of either hypothesis, wouldn't
 >>it make more sense to abandon believing either of them (or
 >>anything else) and just keep open to all possibilities?

 >GEE! What a concept, what an idea! But hey, if all listers on
 >this list did that, the number of posts would drop by about
 >90%! No arguments, no appeals to 'reason', the meaning of which
 >seems more ego driven than 'reason' driven.

 >Maybe there would just be a sense of awe, of interest,
 >questioning, sharing wonderments, no reason for personal and
 >cruel attacks on the personality or integrity of fellow listers.
 >Just maybe, we might have a common pool of information, to which
 >we add, seek to know about, from which some day, we can actually
 >draw some conclusions which we might be able to debate or
 >generally agree on, free from flames....

 >I have read about these anomalies going back to the 60's and
 >70's, and about UFOs since I was a kid, but now, half a century
 >later, I still don't have the answers, but I do have a lot more
 >information than I had then, and while I do give some more
 >'weight' than others, I know I don't yet have all the
 >information I need to arrive at an accurate decision/conclusion
 >as to what it all is. I will not judge another's experience. I
 >do not have the moral right to do so, nor the necessary
 >knowledge to do so. And I haven't yet met anyone who has.


Hi Lesley -

I think you said it all.

It does puzzle me terribly why so few human beings seem able to
accept the condition of not-knowing. And how we almost always
prefer to impose an entirely unsubstantiated 'explanation' on
any perceived strangeness, rather than simply allow it to be -
on its own probably incomprehensible terms.

Karoline










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   Mar > Mar 11

                          Re: Jan Aldrich To Quit?

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:59:45 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:09:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Jan Aldrich To Quit?


 >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:49:15 -0500
 >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
 >Subject: Leaving Ufology
 >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM


 >Dear List,

 >I have decided to leave ufology. I have thought out this course
 >very carefully. During the next week or so, I will try to fill
 >any outstanding commitments. Also, during this next week I
 >will reflect on my decision. (Good advice from Bob Girard.) If
 >at the end of the week I still feel this way, I will start
 >disposing of my holdings.

I agree with Errol, this should be thought about alot longer
then one week, but should be given a month or two or three.

<snip>

 >I thought the Sign Historical Group was an unique approach to
 >the UFO problem. I put in a lot of effort on it. This last week
 >some of the members themselves seem to want to tear it apart. We
 >couldn't just have disagreements, it had to be scorched earth.
 >After being on the telephone for hours, and sending a large
 >number of E-mails, it occurred to me that I had this week free
 >to write things for the Project 1947 website, but hadn't been
 >able to get a line down because of what was going on. This was
 >too much.

So instead of wasting time with the particular folks in the Sign
Historical Group who want to adopt a scorched earth policy, it
would seem more reasonable to pursue your original angle of
Project 47 and make that bigger and better.  You have control
over it so to speak, and then you don't have to waste time with
people who want to adopt a socrched earth policy.

 >It appears to be time to move on to other things.

I would hope that the actions of a few jerks don't cause you to
retreat, because then the jerks will have won.

 >I shall stay on the list for the next two weeks for those who
 >have questions or things they want to discuss.

I truly hope you will reconsider this, the above mentioned
people aren't worth it.

Cheers,

Robert







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   Mar > Mar 11

                        Flare Excerise Over Phoenix?

From: Stefan Duncan <swduncan@worldspy.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:16:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:18:10 -0500
Subject: Flare Excerise Over Phoenix?


Have any reports come from Phoenix regarding sightings of the
flare excerise this week?


Stefan Duncan 5396 Sumac Circle Fayetteville, N.C. 28304 ICQ
11878618 (910) 425-2976 Stefan Duncan Talk Show To listen go to
http://www.previewnet.com and click for a Previewnet player to
listen. from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. weeknights
http://maxpages.com/stefanduncan AUFON-XPI http://www.aufon.com
Join AUFON mailing list just click aufon-subscribe@egroups.com







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   Mar > Mar 11

                                Re: Reed Hoax

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:23:08 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:28:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Reed Hoax


 >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:05:37 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:13:42 -0800
 >>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>Subject: Reed Hoax
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>As many of you know, Jonathan Reed and his partner Robert Raith
 >>>are at the International UFO Congress conference in Nevada
 >>>trying to sell their scam to the public.

 ><snip>

 >I just received the following message from someone who attended
 >the IUFO Congress meeting:

 >-----

 >What a show it was!

 >My girlfriend and I witnessed an Oscar winner performance of the
 >Reed/Raith IUFOC Show.

 >However, what I especially found interesting was the reaction of
 >the lap dog audience. They ate it up!

 >"You are Heroes!" and "You're among friends" was their response.

Thats what all gulliable "lap dogs" do when something tickles
their ears. You may recall my earlier post where I told the
story of the guy who had purported contact with insider space
scientists who were telling tales and storys to the effect of ET
radio waves would blanket earth on Jan 24th 1997 and a new day
would begin for humanity. Well the gulliable lap dogs lapped it
up, until Jan 25th and when nothing happened, the gulliable
suddenly did not want to talk about that guy, but instead wanted
to focus on the newest guy with the newest story, etc.

 >Reed/Raith made many references to how in this country you
 >should able to speak freely. Everyone cheered them on.

You should have the right to speak. If they wanted to hold their
own conference, and all the gulliable lap dogs show up, thats
great with me.

Being that the organizers of this conference seem to want people
whose credentials don't check out, and whose very basic story
doesn't check out, kind of tells me the conference is not a
serious conference, but a UFO entertainment show. Since some of
the people going to these appear to have a taste for wild,
fictional tales and storys, I purpose we should invite Tom
Clancy, John Grisham, and others who could entertain the folks
with hours of fictional storys and tales.

 >However that same feeling wasn't there for anyone that that
 >questioned their story in the slightest degree.

 >During a question and answer period some asked "point of order"
 >type questions about the video (i.e. "How was the sound so clear
 >considering that the mic. on the video camera should have been
 >turned away from your face?", "How did the camera stay so steady
 >considering that you where so out of breath?").

:) Since the audience members don't seem to mind credentials and
basic information about the speakers which can't be checked out,
why should they care about the details of the story being told??

 >The audience treated these innocuous questions with hostility
 >reserved for murders and child molesters. "Get the hell at of
 >here!" along with groans of disgust was the audience's reaction.

Naturally. When you dare bring up questions that don't fit the
perceptions of the gulliable lap dogs, they growl and bark.

 >The first amendment must only apply to people who speak the
 >truth they want to hear. As long as people like that are part

That's what they believe.

 >of the "UFO Community", people like Reed/Raith will flourish. I
 >find the whole thing amazing.

Which is why the UFO community will _never_ get any serious
scientific effort (from the outside at least) geared toward
it... because of these conferences that are stages for anybody
who had a wild, unverfiable story to tell.

We are fortunate in the UFO community to have those who are
seriously studying the problem.  We should at last realize that
some of these so called conferences are turning strictly into
_entertainment_ and as they do, they should be regard as such.

Cheers,

Robert








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                             Re: Time Anomalies

From: Michael J. Woods <mike.woods@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:03:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:38:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Time Anomalies

 >Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:27:08 -0500
 >From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 04:57:54 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Karoline Leach <KarolineLouise@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Supposed Time-Anomalies
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca (UFO UpDates - Toronto)

Dear Karoline, et al,

Very interesting thread here. My two cents worth before some
information you might actually have a use for.

Personally, I'm glad there are some people who won't accepting
not-knowing. Those nosy, pushy types are the reason we've
managed to advance from living in caves and hiding in fear at
the sound of thunder.

Not that every advance is necessarily a good thing, either.

However, I will admit that those people who are smugly certain
that only their opinion is correct, to the exclusion of any
other possible explanation,  drive me nuts. Especially when the
opinions cover topics of which there is no proof; UFO's and
religion springing to mind.

I don't mind a bit of blue-skying... but I try to keep the
hallucinations to a minimum.

When I was 20, I knew all the answers, at 30, I began to suspect
I didn't, now in my 40's I realise I don't even know all the
questions.

On to more useful stuff. I don't know if its indicative of time
travel or just proof the only thing science knows is that it
doesn't know much, but for an extensive examination of
archeological anomalies, footprints in limestone beds hundreds
of millions of years old (oldest proto-human, Lucy circa 2.3
million years) finely crafted gold jewellery, nails and other
artifacts found inside coal,( approx 20-200 million years to
make coal) the oldest know city on earth, which seems to have
appeared without an earlier settlement to show where all the
citizens learned the skills demonstrated in that oldest city and
many other anomalies, I refer you to Ancient Mysteries, A
History through Evolution and Magic, published by Penguin Books
through its Viking imprinter.

An excellent read and more importantly thoroughly substantiated
with a long, long bibliography and cross referencing.

And it even had pictures to look at when my lips got tired from
reading. You might find this interesting, if not totally
related.


Mike Woods

The truth can STAY out there, send in a good fantasy!









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   Mar > Mar 12

                  Re: Nick Pope's Weird World - March Issue

From: royjhale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 02:57:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:58:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Nick Pope's Weird World - March Issue


 >Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 14:09:20 +0000
 >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
 >Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World - March Issue
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Weird World with Nick Pope
 >March 2000 Issue, Hot Gossip UK
 >www.hotgossip.co.uk

 >Flying Tractors

 >Researcher James Easton has caused much amusement among
 >ufologists with a new theory about Britain's best-known UFO
 >case, the Rendlesham Forest incident.

 >James was previously best known for loudly championing Ian
 >Ridpath's theory that the triangular, metallic craft seen by
 >numerous United States Air Force personnel in Rendlesham Forest
 >was a lighthouse, although as one of the witnesses wryly pointed
 >out, lighthouses don't fly!

 >Now Easton has a theory of his own: that the entire incident
 >might have been caused by the misidentification of a tractor.

 >The apparently serious suggestion started when Easton was
 >driving late at night and saw a tractor in a field, festooned
 >with lights.

 >Unfortunately, theories like this - quite apart from being at
 >odds with the data - serve only to infuriate witnesses,
 >believers and sceptics alike.

 >Witnesses stand accused of ridiculously poor judgement, while
 >believers think it! 's yet more negative, ill-informed
 >debunking.

 >Ironically, it's serious sceptical researchers who tend to be
 >most annoyed by such nonsense. Why? Because wild claims like
 >this do far more than simply undermine the credibility of
 >sceptics; they make them laughing stocks, and for serious
 >researchers, that's the kiss of death.


Hi Georgina,

I put some questions to Mr Easton on this list in answer to his
Issue 9 Voyager Newsletter. I even asked him privately for an
answer on some of his writings... and no answer.

I would guess it was the UFO desk man answers that did it.

Roy..








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                         Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:28:35 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:56:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies


 >>Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 13:47:16 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Karoline Leach <KarolineLouise@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>I hope no one minds me saying that there seems to be something
 >>very similar here between the 'Pelicans' and the 'ET' believers.

 >>Since there is clearly no proof of either hypothesis, wouldn't
 >>it make more sense to abandon believing either of them (or
 >>anything else) and just keep open to all possibilities?

Hi All,

Isn't the ET Hypothesis a possibility?

I was waiting for that word 'Proof' to rear it's head again...


Roy







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                              UFO Desk 3.13.00

From: Paul Williams <ufodesk@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 09:02:19 -0500
Subject: UFO Desk 3.13.00


Hello,

This is an invitation to all to please check out my humble radio
production UFO Desk.

The show airs alternate Monday mornings at one am or
thereabouts.

If your're in the NY area you can pick it up on radio, WBAI NY
99.5 FM. Outside of the NY area, you can hear it webcast thanks
to porus.com  Go to www.wbaifree.org for link to webcast.

This Monday my guest is Dennis Lee, Mr. Lee is a businessman
who's heavly invested in surpressed technology.

Just what is "free electricity", and can you burn water, also is
it possible to have super conductivity at room tempeture? Listen
to this controversial show and understand.

I hope you all can get a chance to listen in. Much thanks in
advance.


Paul Wms.
Executive Producer UFO Desk
ufodesk@ufodisclosure.com







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                    Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures

From: Victor J.Kean <VICTOR_J_KEAN@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 05:11:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 09:13:33 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures


 >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:33:06 -0500
 >From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:55:37 -0500
 >>From: Victor J.Kean <VICTOR_J_KEAN@compuserve.com>
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>>Ever since my sighting at the Canadian Forces Station
 >>>Falconbridge, Sudbury, Ontario base in October 1990 (the base
 >>>closed in 1987), I've been wondering the same thing!?

 >>Hallo Michel,

 >>Would you happen to know the precise date and time of your
 >>sighting ?

 >Yes, I do. Between 8:30 p.m. and 8:55 p.m. FYI: On Tuesday,
 >Ocotber 9, 1990, Venus had set with the sun and Jupiter did not
 >rise until 12:00 a.m. (astronomical info I received from a
 >member of the local astronomy club).


Michel,

You may be interested to learn that the events at Falconbridge
on 11th November 1975 are detailed in the cuurnet issue of 'UFO
Magazine UK'

Regards,

Victor







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                          Jan Aldrich Not To Quit!

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 09:25:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 09:25:44 -0500
Subject: Jan Aldrich Not To Quit!





From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto

A message from Jan Aldrich of PROJECT 1947 - one that
made for a much more pleasant sleep last night...

ebk

-----

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:03:59 -0500
From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
Subject: Thank You!
To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM


Dear Friends,

This list is _so_great_! Thank you for your wishes and your
support! I now know what Gore and Bush must have felt like on
Super Tuesday!

In addition, I received messages from people that I hardly know
and complete strangers who urge me to stay on in ufology.

When I saw ball lightning as a child, I wanted to know what it
was. The encyclopedia said scientists doubted it's existence.
Today, most don't.

Reading about ball lightning got me interested in UFOs. Today,
most scientists don't care a fig for UFOs and doubt their
existence.

I want to know what UFOs are. I can't afford expansive tracking
networks, but delving into history before the contamination
really set in is another way to approach the subject. That and
studying the effects on environment and people seem ways to
approach this mystery.

These are the ways I have picked.

Maybe, my choices are incorrect, but due in large part to your
overwhelming outpourings, I have decided to continue down this
path.

Thank you! I am overwhelmed beyond telling.

I had really decided to end my commitment to UFO research, your
messages changed my mind.

Best and warmest regards,

Jan Aldrich








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                       UFO Sighting OZ Files - 02.2000

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:03:34 +1100
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:15:10 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting OZ Files - 02.2000


FOLLOWUP:      Karen Burden AUFORN NSW

1800 Callin
Code:          00558 - 13.02.2000

Date:           22.01.2000
Day:            Saturday
Time seen:      after 9 pm
Name:           Andrew
Location:            Glenmore Park, NSW
Telephone No:   On file
Given to
Investigator:  Karen Burden

Report:

Shape:          Roundish (bright Lights)
Size:           Pea Size at arm's length (all 4)
Objects:             4 (Arc to straight line Configuration)
Colour:         Bright Orange
Sound:          None
Speed:          Moving very slowly
Duration:            10 minutes
Direction:      Heading towards the Blue Mountains - West
Witnesses:      Nil


Report:

Andrew states that he saw similar lights to those sighted on the
29.01.2000 but one week earlier on the 22.01.2000. His was not
the only report received in regard to the sightings on this
date.

He also made mention that he had seen similar lights one year
prior, Jan/Feb 1999, Xmas Day 1998 and the 16.11.1999. Andrew
also mentioned that he has seen similar lights on other
occasions and states they always come from a North-West
position, coming up out of the Blue Mountains National Park
Area.

On another occassion recently 01.03.2000 he spotted a bright
white light that looked like a star, but it did not twinkle. He
noticed this object once he went outside to investigate why his
dogs were persistently barking, it was around 2 am and the sky
was very clear. The object was positioned to the West 45 degrees
above the horizon and was not moving. He watched the object for
15 minutes then went inside. At about 3:30 am he went back
outside to check if it was still there, it was no where to be
found.

------


FOLLOWUP:  Karen Burden AUFORN  NSW

1800 Callin Code: 00553/00562  12.02.2000/14.02.2000

Date:           29.01.2000
Day:            Saturday
Time seen:      12 am
Name:           Kathleen H.
Location:            Penrith,  NSW
Telephone No:   On file
Investigator:  Karen Burden

Report:

Shape:       Roundish (bright Lights)

Size:        A bit smaller than a 5 cent coin at arm's length (all 5)

Objects:             5
Colour:      Bright Orange
Sound:       None
Speed:       Moving slowly upwards
Duration:            20 minutes
Direction:     Heading up towards the Blue Mountains - North West
Witnesses:     Nil

Report:

Kathleen states the objects were very bright and were moving
North-West. Initially they were positioned at 45 degrees and
faded out of sight at 90 degrees the highest one disappeared out
of her view first and so on. The degrees may not be entirely
accurate due to the fact she was standing on a second floor
balcony.

-----


FOLLOWUP:  Karen Burden AUFORN  NSW

1800 Callin Code: 00543 - 12.02.2000  10:31 am

Date:       29.01.2000
Day:        Saturday
Time seen:    9:20 pm
Name:       Monica S.
Location:           South Penrith,  NSW
Telephone No: On file
Investigator: Karen Burden

Report:

Shape:      Roundish (flickering bright Lights)
Size:       One third the size of a 5 cent coin at arm's length (all 4)
Objects:            4
Colour:     Bright Orange
Sound:      None
Speed:      Moving slowly
Duration:           30 minutes
Direction:    Heading towards the Blue Mountains - North East to North West
Witnesses:    Husband and children


Report:

Monica stated that she heard four loud bangs she described as
fire crackers in Robertson Park, Penrith South. The family went
outside and already in the sky at about 70 degrees from the
horizon were three orange flickering lights, a fourth one moved
towards the others a few minutes later. The sky was partially
overcast, stars could be sighted in the East. The objects
started moving from a North-East position to North West. They
were eventuallly lost from sight due to cloud cover.

-----

FOLLOWUP:  Karen Burden AUFORN  NSW

1800 Callin Code: 00550  12.02.2000  11:50 am

Date:           22.01.2000
Day:            Saturday
Time seen:      9:35 pm
Name:           Michelle
Location:            Glenmore Park,  NSW
Telephone No:   On file
Investigator:  Karen Burden

Report:

Shape:       Roundish (flickering bright Lights)
Size:        Half the size of a 5 cent coin at arm's length (all 4)
Objects:             4 (configuration - box formation)
Colour:      Bright Orange
Sound:       None
Speed:       Moving slowly
Duration:            15 minutes
Direction:     Heading towards the Blue Mountains -  North West
Witnesses:     Husband and children

Report:

Saw three orange lights, a fourth one appeared a little while
later. The sky was partially overcast. The objects went highter
as they were moving along and were heading towards the North
West in the same formation. They were eventuallly lost from
sight due to cloud cover.

Thankyou Karen for this report

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director


~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>







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                          Re: Jan Aldrich To Quit?

From: John W. Auchettl Praufo@aol.com
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:26:23 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:33:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Jan Aldrich To Quit?


 >From: Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto
 >Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:36:41 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:36:41 -0500
 >Subject: Jan Aldrich To Quit?

 >The following post to Project 1947 yesterday afternoon was, to
 >say the least, a heart-stopper:

-----

 >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:49:15 -0500
 >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
 >Subject: Leaving Ufology
 >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM


 >Dear List,

 >I have decided to leave ufology. I have thought out this course
 >very carefully.

<snip>


              Oz & ASIA DATA RESEARCH
           Phenomena Research Australia

Dear Jan,

Just back and got EBK mail about your situation. Jan Aldrich To
Quit?

Don't give up. Just have a rest. Take some time and leave the
project rest for a few week or months.

Also, I have been near 30 years in this trade and I still can
not tell you why I am in it. I have left a hundred time, my
family and staff think I am a lost case, but that life.

It's either duty or love - if you make it work then your lost!
Just change your ILS approach!

Get the fool[s] who have been at you to do their own leg work.
Let them get off their butts. It's hard in this mass ego system
but it works :-)

Rest up.

Regards

             John A

 From us all at PRA
Melbourne, Australia.

John W. AUCHETTL - Director PRA Research
DR R. BARNETT - Deputy Director
DR T.ROBB - Group Cord
DR D.  FLYNN
Prof D. REED

WEB:
http://www.praufo.web.com
http://members.aol.com/praufo/PRA1/Pra1.htm


� Copyright

Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2000 - 39 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE







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                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:13:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:43:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:03:11 -0300
 >From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:46:54 -0800
 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Hello Todd:

 >>That sounds like a fine experiment! I hope somebody can do it.
 >>I doubt it would do much to change the opinions of certain folks
 >>however.


 >I'm not sure I understand the thrust of these comments.

 >Perhaps I missed something important over the last year or so.
 >Maybe I was too busy on other things to notice, but am I to
 >understand that this Pheonix sighting has been solved? A rock
 >solid explanation has been presented?

 >Lemme know, because anything I have seen offered so far as an
 >explanation seems weak, particularly the flare explanation. Too
 >far away and too close to the ground to be seen in Pheonix.

 >Don

Hello Don:

I wouldn't call the Phoenix Lights matter "solved".

That's the problem with high lights, flares, BOLs and the like.
They cannot be solved. I no longer list them here, mainly for
that reason.

Personally, and based on discussions on this and other lists, I
am persuaded that there is little if any merit to the Phoenix
Lights.

There are plenty of other cases that seem genuinely mysterious.
I would prefer to concentrate on those.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

- - - - - - - - - -







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                          Re: Jan Aldrich To Quit?

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:14:36 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:40:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Jan Aldrich To Quit?

 >From: Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >The following post to Project 1947 yesterday afternoon was, to
 >say the least, a heart-stopper:

 >-----

 >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:49:15 -0500
 >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
 >Subject: Leaving Ufology
 >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

 >Dear List,

 >I have decided to leave ufology. I have thought out this course
 >very carefully. During the next week or so, I will try to fill
 >any outstanding commitments. Also, during this next week I
 >will reflect on my decision. (Good advice from Bob Girard.) If
 >at the end of the week I still feel this way, I will start
 >disposing of my holdings.

<snip>

 >The premature loss of Jan Aldrich does not bear thinking about.

 >There are few people I admire in this field more than Jan
 >Aldrich. His dedication to historical research has become legend
 >among those who know his work. His no nonsense approach and his
 >tireless energy in archives around North America have been an
 >inspiration to literally dozens of serious researchers around
 >this planet. His by-invitation-only e-mail list, PROJECT 1947
 >has become _the_ discussion base for researchers worldwide.

 >Jan booted-up his Net-presence on UFO UpDates, shortly after he
 >visited Sue and I along with Tom & Lise Theofanous here in
 >Toronto in 1996, whilst looking for material for Project 1947.
 >There are few in this field that Tom speaks about with even more
 >hushed-tones than usual. As Tom put it "Jan's a real researcher's
 >researcher."

 >Speaking for those 'frostbacks' who have benefited greatly from
 >Jan's tireless work in the past...
 >
 >Jan, think twice and then a third time. You cannot be replaced
 >and should you decide to quit, your loss will severely retard
 >the work. Besides which, 'they' will win - again.

 >Errol

Errol, Jan and Listers:

Please add my voice to what I expect to be a cacophony of
negativity from the white hats. I respect people who seek
truth. In fact, it's more than a respect, it's an admiration.

Jan's name is right up there with the names of a few others
whose contributions to Ufology are exemplary in truth. That
doesn't mean that what they say is true, it means that the
conclusion, right or wrong, is arrived at by a truthful research,
and not by the strength of the moment. The moment to which
I refer is all too often another book sale, another show. And
the paucity of sagacity is often demonstrated by the paucity
of veracity.

Not with Jan.

Errols words cut keenly right through me ...

 >... Besides which, 'they' will win - again.

I am a researcher, but only of my own experiences. I am
not a researcher in Ufology. I work long and hard, and
very few of you reallyknow me. Know this, if you cannot
see through the edema of your egos, it's time to quit. It's
just not your time, Jan. I realized only recently, that the
search for truth, your own truth, can make you ill. I didn't
know that!

During my research, I use the tools provided by many who've
written against the tide of swelled heads and fatter egos. I
have respect for each of you. Pig headed and opinionated,
strong in their belief systems, and fat in the head ... such is
the life of the average researcher. But them white hats should
stick around. The way to truth approaches quickly. And you
have earned the right to be there when it happens, and not
these others ... the ones who wear black.

One should never be where one does not belong.

J. Jaime Gesundt






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                  D E S T I N A T I O N: S P A C E Preview

From: Yvonne Hedenland <Yvonne_Hedenland@email.msn.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:42:14 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 12:20:39 -0500
Subject: D E S T I N A T I O N: S P A C E Preview


D E S T I N A T I O N: S P A C E
http://www.solarcafe.com/destinationspace

Presents a Sneak Preview with 'Dead Mars, Dying Earth'.
Chat with scientists John Brandenburg & Monica Rix Paxson
Tuesday, March 14th @ 6pm, PT

On the dawn of a new century, mankind's fascination with Space
has only just begun to match the efforts of the scientists and
organizations exploring this frontier. Join Destination: Space
in a preview of what lies ahead for this brand new website where
we'll move beyond the ordinary and into the unknown.

Our first stop is Mars where we'll take a look at the newly
released 'Dead Mars, Dying Earth', by John Brandenburg & Monica
Rix Paxson. Overwhelming evidence now exists to support the
theory that there was once life on Mars. But how alive was this
elusive red planet and how did it die? What could the demise of
Mars reveal about the future of our own planet, Earth? Join
authors Brandenburg & Paxson for an evening of exploration on
Tuesday, March 14th at 6pm, PT where we'll discover the
connection between these two planets.

This chat is accessible by using either our built in chat page,
MS Chat or any IRC client. The chat server name is
chat.solarcafe.com and the channel/room name is #planetarium.

Please note that this chat room will not be open until the
evening of the event, But, the pre-chat Audio Interview is
available _now_ at

Destination: Space
http://www.solarcafe.com/destinationspace

We look forward to seeing you online!









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                             Re: Time Anomalies

From: Michael J. Woods <mike.woods@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 13:06:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:11:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Time Anomalies


Dear List,

Humble apologies. I cited a book in my last posting, Ancient
Mysteries. It would have helped if I had have included the
author's name... and an ISBN wouldn't have hurt, either. So here
they are... again with apologies for forgetting them the first
time!

Ancient Mysteries by Michael Baigent

ISBN 0-670-88443-x   Penguin Books

Note, this is also published under the title Ancient
Traces...same author.


Mike Woods


The truth can STAY out there,
send in a good fantasy!








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                       Re: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:25:43 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:49:17 -0500
Subject: Re: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00


 >Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:04:17 -0800
 >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
 >Subject: Re: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >The previews gave _me_ the following impression:

 >A crew goes to Mars and discovers a secret NASA has been hiding
 >for years for fear of the implications. The secret is so
 >terrible that you will regret the revelation. It has to do with
 >ET, of course, as you catch a glimpse of a group of the familiar
 >silhouettes.

 >The trailer is a fraud and every person who sees the movie
 >should go home and fax Touchstone for misrepresentation.


I was really surprised to see the promo for M2M on TV. It made
explicit references to a NASA cover-up and even showed one of
the Viking images of the Face.

Hoagland thinks this represents some sort of falling out between
Disney and NASA.

My guess is that the promo was a desperate attempt by the guys
in advertising to save a movie that promises to be something of
a turkey at the box office, if the reviews I've read so far are
any indication.







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                          Filer's Files #10 -- 2000

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:42:27 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:53:41 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #10 -- 2000


Filer's Files #10 -- 2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,      Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
March 12,  2000,     Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. - Chuck Warren Webmaster.

IT'S A GREAT BIG WONDERFUL WORLD WE LIVE ON

We live on one of the great jewels in the universe and that is
one of the main reason we are being visited.   The visitors
have been giving us a message, but many cannot see it or
understand it.  Our Creator gave  us this Earth to take care of
and we must do a better job.  The reader should understand, I'm
a UFO advocate, and I firmly believe there is enough evidence
to launch scientific research into the phenomenon of UFOs.  I
have studied this field for thirty years, and not one week has
gone by without new and significant news on the subject.  Many
people do not accept the phenomenon as fact, since their life
experiences are not equivalent to my own.  I understand that we
are each given certain wisdom and opportunities.  I chased one
while in the Air Force and saw this large radar return on my
radar screen showing me they were real.  My web site started in
September and now according to my web master Chuck Warren has
half a million hits a month mostly from people who are
searching for answers.  Many are from government or schools who
see a shocking deterioration in these organizations.  Students
are killing and raping one another while little of significance
is being taught.  As each day goes by, the evidence mounts that
something is in our skies besides the normal planets, stars,
aircraft, or balloons.  We obtain some 300 reports from various
sources each month.  If we are very conservative we can
eliminate about 75 to 80 percent of the reports as mistakes in
identification.  But a solid core of 20 to 25 percent appear as
unknown and unidentified.  Assuming what these thousands of
people see each year is real, what's it all about?  There are
several likely possibilities of what causes these hard core
reports:  One is a type of misunderstood plasma or other
unknown phenomenon.  Others simply point to classified military
aircraft or alien life forms thought to live some where on
Earth, or perhaps in a different dimension.  One of the most
likely causes is that we are being visited by alien space
ships.  Over the last three years I have attempted to provide
the reader with some of the most interesting cases and new
evidence, but our resources are limited.

I can assure you that something wonderful is in our skies, but
they are doing more than lighting up our skies with signs and
wonders.   I feel they are sending a message.  The message does
not appear to be one of destruction, but more hope, love,
rebirth and good news.  We are apparently being warned,
signaled, given a sign of wonders and given a lamp of guidance.
Although, there may be a dark side, most of the message is
comfort to the lonely, an encouragement to protect our Earth
and the weakest creatures amongst us.  I feel they are saying
it is time to clean up our act morally, spiritually and
environmentally.  If you carefully look for these signs in our
skies ,you will find them.  People  from every walk of life
including several of our Presidents have seen these signs.
Leaders in Chile, Brazil, and France are actively searching for
them.  The US Air Force spent over twenty years up until 1969
chasing them, and key Generals like Twining and Chidlaw
acknowledged they were here.  My own search continues.  These
files are free, but I can always use your help in uncovering
the most important secrets of mankind and the universe.  I
invite you to join our quest and with God's help we will reach
our goals.  The visitors or angels have come across space and
time to visit us and they have tried to give each one of us a
great conceptual  message.  Mankind in its greed often messes
up the message, but the basic message is for all mankind to
benefit.  So far my understanding of the message being brought
to us is that God loves us and cares.  He created this world
and its treasures and protects us from most harm, and He has
given a set of instructions to live by.  If we do as we are
asked and grow, we can join with other civilizations in the
universe.

WAR OF THE SONS OF LIGHT AND SONS OF DARKNESS;

Astronauts have always been distinguished men of valor and
exploits.  A couple of years ago, Dr. Edgar Mitchell and I had
a brief conversation after we spoke to about fifty
Congressional staff personnel in Washington DC.  He indicated
as I do that we may be visited by some type of intelligence
from space.  I asked Edgar,  what he thought was the real
secret to all of this concerning UFOs?  He said, "The answers
are all in the Dead Sea Scrolls."  I said, "you mean like the
Sons of Light and Darkness?"  He said, yes but even now not all
of these scrolls have not been revealed.  I searched the
scrolls myself later to find some meaning .  The text of the
"War of the Sons of Light and Sons of Darkness" describes where
two side are in an apocalyptic battle for Earth.  The angels
are described as being part of the fight. "Warrior angels are in
our muster, and He that is mighty in War is in our throng.  The
army of His spirits marches beside us.  Our horsemen come like
clouds or like banks of dew, to cover the earth, or like
torrential showers, to rain judgement on all that grows in it.
Opposing the good forces are the forces of darkness. But for
corruption thou hast made Belial, an angel of hostility.  All
his dominion is darkness and guilt.  All the spirits that are
associated with him are angels of destruction.  They follow
only the laws of darkness, and their craving is directed toward
it."  Pages  414-416 The Dead Sea Scriptures.

UFOs ARE ALREADY HERE

Sam Sherman the president of Independent International Pictures
writes, "Where do Aliens come from?  When interviewed for my
still-unreleased film- "B EYOND THIS EARTH".  Astronaut Col.
Gordon Cooper spoke about one reported instance where:  "Aliens
were living on their ships, as they had lost their sun in their
own solar system".  A possible hypothesis may be that some ET
groups live on large ships or space platforms, as has been
reported, not on planetary bodies, and these huge crafts loop
in and around our planet.  Further they send out smaller scout
craft for missions (whatever they may be) to Earth.  They may
have traveled great distances here over decades or hundreds of
years and their huge ships serve as replacement and
space-faring planets.  Just an idea.  Thanks to Sam Sherman.

Editor's Notes: NASA seriously considered developing a city in
space.  The concept and artist's drawing is contained in Ernest
Jahn's and Margaret Sachs book "Celestial Passengers UFO's and
Space Travel."  A space habitat was designed by NASA to carry
several hundred thousand people.  The space habitat would be 16
miles long by four miles wide and have its own atmosphere and
clouds.  Only 2% of the materials would come from Earth, the
remaining 98% would come from the moon.  Not only does it yield
an abundant supply of substances such as aluminum, concrete,
soil, oxygen, and probably water, but lifting the materials off
the moon will require twentieth the energy needed to lift them
off Earth, because the Moon has such weak gravitational pull.
We have to remember that Earth to is a spaceship.  Even the
total breakage of one window panel would allow a leak down time
of three hundred years.  Compare this to the dangers we face on
Earth in the form of earthquakes, volcanic eruptions,
hurricanes, and tornadoes.  If aliens were living not too far
from Earth in space they may have a few minute ride to visit
us.  The dark eyes often described by abductees may be a
permanent eyeglasses to protect sensitive eyes from the glare
of our powerful sun or the bright light created by their
propulsion systems.  It happens there are places in space
There are five points (L-1 thru L-5) in space known as
Lagrangian Libration Points  where a space ship can stay with
little if any energy needed.  L-4 and L-5 are particularly well
balanced where the gravitational and centrifugal forces of the
Earth and Moon cancel each other out.  Any object within one of
these  roughly spherical areas would remain orbiting around the
Earth just as our Moon does.  This is roughly a 60 degree angle
in front and behind the moon essentially along its orbital
path.  Astronomers may wish to examine that portion of the sky
to see if any small moonlets or space ships are orbiting our
Earth.

I have seen some of the original footage of Sam's full-length
motion picture. This film should be finished.  It has some
great footage of UFOs over Clear Lake, California, and a farm
in New Jersey.  I'm sure Sam would like to hear from potential
investors.  Give Sam a call at 732 727-8500. FLEXARET2@aol.com
and tell him I asked you to call.

WHEN DISCLOSURE SERVES SECRECY

CSETI Director Steven M. Greer M.D.  has put out a new book
that is worth reading.  Steven who provides some profound
thinking in his own right indicates he does not feel abductions
are actually taking place.  He gives us insight into the mind
of one of the most consequential men of the century who he
doesn't agree with when he states,    "In one lengthy meeting
with a multi-billionaire, I was told that he gave great support
to UFO activities which propel the so-called 'alien abduction'
subject into public awareness because he wanted humanity to
unite around fighting this 'alien threat'.  Later, this very
influential figure informed me that he believed these demonic
ET s were the cause of every set back in human history since
Adam and Eve.  Sound familiar?"

Editor's Note:  This billionaire has been friends with many US
presidents and top political, religious and economic leaders
worldwide for more than fifty years.  Is it possible that
Laurance Rockefeller knows what he's talking about?  Thanks to
Steven M. Greer M.D. See www.CSETI.com.

NASA FLIGHTS HAVE SEEN UFOs

"All Apollo and Gemini flights were followed, both at a
distance and sometimes also quite closely, by space vehicles of
extraterrestrial origin - flying saucers, or UFOs, if you want
to call them by that name.  Every time it occurred, the
astronauts informed Mission Control, who then ordered absolute
silence."  "I think that Walter Schirra aboard Mercury 8 was
the first of the astronauts to use the code name 'Santa Claus'
to indicate the presence of flying saucers next to space
capsules.  However, his announcements were barely noticed by
the general public.  It was a little different when James
Lovell on board the Apollo 8 command module came out from
behind the moon and said for everybody to hear: 'PLEASE BE
INFORMED THAT THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS.'  Even though this
happened on Christmas Day 1968, many people sensed a hidden
meaning in those words."

The rumors persist. NASA may well be a civilian agency, but
many of its programs are funded by the defense budget and most
of the astronauts are subject to military security regulations.
Apart from the fact that the National Security Agency screens
all films and probably radio communications as well.  We have
the statements by Otto Binder, Dr. Garry Henderson and Maurice
Chatelain that the astronauts were under strict orders not to
discuss their sighting programs are funded by the defense
budget and most of the astronauts are subject to military
security regulations.

Astronaut Eugene Cernan was commander of Apollo 17.  In a Los
Angeles Times article in 1973 he said, "I've been asked (about
UFOs) and I've said publicly I thought they (UFOs) were
somebody else, some other civilization."

In 1979, Maurice Chatelain, former chief of NASA Communications
Systems confirmed that Armstrong had indeed reported seeing two
UFOs on the rim of a crater.  Chatelain believes that some UFOs
may come from our own solar system -- specifically Titan.  "The
encounter was common knowledge in NASA, but nobody has talked
about it until now."

NEW JERSEY HOVERING UFO

BARNEGAT BAY-- Jeanne writes I have about one minute of video
tape of my sighting.   I saw the two lights above the trees on
February 11, 2000.  On the tape the date is not correct but I
seem to have gotten something.  When I viewed the tape there
appears to be a third object in the upper left of the two
brighter lights.  When I first saw the white objects in
Waretown, New Jersey they were hovering above the trees , but
as soon as I opened the blinds they descend  below the trees.
There is only my home on this deserted street with woods in the
back where I saw the UFO's.  But when we investigated the spot
I found the UFOs were actually over part of the Barnegat Bay.
 From my backyard all you can see are endless woods that back up
to the inlet of the Atlantic Ocean.

I first saw these ships around 11:30 PM and they hovered and
moved up and down for about three hours.  I really believe they
saw me because if I just cracked the vertical blinds they were
above the trees.  As soon as I opened two verticals to watch
them, they quickly went below the trees like it was a game.  I
was too afraid to go outside or I would have  a better filming
of this event.  This was the first time in my life I ever used
a video camera so while I would try to get between the
verticals my pictures would be shot of my floor.  I used the
zoom lens and zoomed in and out a lot.  The next night I heard
a loud sonic boom similar to what we heard all summer long
around 4:00 AM twice a week.  I thought something was coming
through my house since it shook like an earthquake for about
three seconds.   I ran to the back verticals and saw five
fighter jets whiz by.   Thanks to: J cat0892I

MARYLAND UFO VIDEOS

BALTIMORE - Bill Bean writes, I would like to report my latest
video footage. I shot it on February 29, 2000.  My wife and I
were going to visit friends in the Baltimore area, and I felt
something was urging me to take my camcorder, so I did.  We
arrived at the home of Debbie and Frank Hutchinson.  I asked if
I could set up my camcorder on his front porch?  and he said
sure. I turned the camcorder on its tripod and pointed it
south.  We let the camera run until 10:56 PM when we went
inside to play it back.  There were only a few airplanes until
10:31 PM.  Then a craft appeared flying at a very low altitude
with no sound.  The thing looked white [yellowish] in color and
had a weird flicker to it [like a flame]; it was there for
about twenty seconds, before it slowly moved to the west.  It
also appeared to be projecting a light downward.  At 10:37 PM
out of the east, two objects come into the frame moving very
slowly one behind the other.  This object gets to about the
middle of the frame and stops and puts out a very bright glow.
It starts moving again and heads off to the south.

At 10:39 PM a group of flickering objects can be seen, one
slowly heads west reverses itself and slowly moves  east.  One
above it heads east and suddenly reverses towards the west.
The two appear about the same altitude and pass each other in
close proximity.  The one heading east, stops and glows bright
white.  A third object comes in from the east at 10:41 PM and
comes dangerously close  to the one heading to the east.  We
reviewed the tapes and Frank said,  " airplanes do not reverse
and do not fly that close to each other."  I said, "You're
exactly right, I just wanted to hear it from you!"  The camera
was in focus the whole time.  We went outside and the only
thing  we saw and heard was an airplane at a much higher
altitude.  The shape of these things reminded us of pillars and
chariots of fire mentioned in the bible.   Thanks to  BILL
BEAN.  bllin@erols.com (Bill & Linda Bean)

GEORGIA INVESTIGATION OF LIGHTS

CHATSWORTH -- MUFON Georgia State Director writes that he has
investigated the October 16, 1999 at 10:30 PM sighting.  Drew a
business owner observed light from his home that is situated at
the top of Fort Mountain.  An unidentified object was moving
over the valley below.  It was a round bright light hovering
about a mile away.  It was drifting very slowly from left to
right as he watched.  It would change from the size of
basketball at arm's length to the size of a baseball.  He could
see it pass behind some thin branches of a small tree in is
yard.  It expanded again to the size of a basketball and
disappeared.  The witness is of high standing in the community
and is well educated.  There is a preponderance of UFO reports
from the Fort Mountain indicating something is going on in the
area.  It is possible that piezoelectric or floating plasma
like effects is occurring due to tectonic stress of a geologic
formation.  Most of the UFOs have been reported coming down
from high altitude, rather than low-level lights often
associated with this phenomenon.  Another witness has observed
several unmistakable solid anomalous craft at very close range.
There is no indication that celestial or weather related
objects are responsible for this case.  Low flying aircraft in
this valley at night would be suicidal due to ridges, peaks,
and cell phone towers.  Other unusual events have been reported
along this Blue Ridge Corridor.  In December, residents
reported earth tremors particularly in the afternoon.
Seismologists at Georgia Tech indicated there had been no earth
tremors.  These fairly regular sightings indicate there is
anomalous cause to this sighting.  Thanks to Tom Sheets

GEORGIA CIRCLE OF LIGHTS FROM UFO,

TROUP COUNTY - John Thompson one of our country's finest
investigators writes,  "A circle of lights was seen rising from
behind a wood line in extreme north Troup County, just west of
Highway 219."  The sighting took place on January 27, 2000, at
about 12:30 a.m.  The 25 year-old witness said he, his friend
and his friend's girlfriend were standing outside when they
noticed a circle of "red and blue round lights" come straight
up only a few hundred yards away.  On reaching a level above
the woods, the ten to twelve bright lights went streaking to
the east just north of their location.  The lights, which may
or may not have been flashing, were exceptionally bright the
young man said.  They appeared to be located around the bottom
edge of a "saucer" shaped vehicle.  Despite the lights not
being far away or high, the witness said they heard no sound as
the UFO past overhead.  Total viewing time of the sighting was
only "three seconds".  The witness said all of them were
certain that this was "no airplane" or helicopter because of
the circular arrangement of lights, strange movements, quick
speed and no engine noise being heard.  He also reported that
in weeks before this sighting that they had seen a large
brilliant white light moving in pastures and woods behind his
friend's house.

   The circle of lights is reminiscent of similar sightings that
   were observed frequently in the Troup-Heard Corridor during
   1996-97.  The most recent lights seen would suggest, as the
   other sightings usually did, a lighted craft of car to
   minivan size.  This, of course, is only true if we assume
   they are on a structured object, as most witnesses believe
   possible.  Many times in the past these "circle of lights"
   have been seen to rise straight up from a pasture before
   departing.  Unlike past sightings, however, no
   counter-clockwise rotation of the lights was observed
   according to the witness.  The latest sighting took place in
   an extremely remote area of Troup County above the
   Chattahoochee River.  This is only a 1/3 of a mile south of
   the Heard County line.  The sighting occurred 28 hours before
   a freak snowstorm hit Troup and Heard County.  While snow was
   forecast for most of central and north Georgia, only Troup
   and Heard counties received snow despite being along the
   southern line of forecasted snowfall.  The area where the  2
   1/2 inches of snow fell in the early morning hours of the
   Jan. 28th eerily matched EXACTLY where the "mystery boom" was
   heard/felt on 8/2/99 when two V-shaped UFOs were seen.  While
   the connection is not known, freakish weather, mystery booms,
   and UFOs often seem to occur in the same locales.  The
   weather according to the witness was a clear sky, with no
   wind and a temperature above freezing.  Thanks to John
   Thompson.

ILLLINOIS PHOTO CAPTURES UFOs ON FILM NEAR CHICAGO

PALOS HILLS -- A photographer in a South Chicago suburb
captured three UFOs on film last week and has posted them on
his website.  "I was photographing contrails/chemtrails over
Palos Hills, Illinois" on Wednesday, March 1, 2000, when he
accidentally captured the images.  "I took a series of 34
photos," he reported, "And when I viewed them I saw objects in
two photos that I did not see when I took the film".  He was
using a Model 2700 Vivitar Digital Camera when he shot the 34
photos of the sky near Roberts Road and 103rd Street in Palos
Hills.  Photo No. 27 shows one UFO in the sky.  Photo No. 29
shows three unidentified objects, with two of the objects
"turned" or pitched at the same angle.  This is the first time
that UFOs in the USA's Upper Midwest have been photographed in
connection with the mysterious and controversial "chemtrails."
The photos may be viewed at
http://paloshills.com/contrails/022900/27.jpg and
/022900/29.jpg.  Thanks to  the excellent UFO Roundup Vol., 3 #
10, 3/9/00 Editor: Joseph Trainor.

ARKANSAS FIRE FROM SPACE

LONOKE -- Nancy Talbot writes that on March 9, 2000, in the
early morning something came down into farm fields off Allison
(?) Loop Road, which created large areas of fire.  Ike Bishop
in Idaho called me last night, saying he had just seen a report
on CBS News about a video of a burning area with flames
reaching ten feet  in the air.  Further stating that the CBS
broadcast said that NORAD had said that it "wasn't a meteorite,
it wasn't space debris, and that no planes were missing."  I
then started calling contacts in the Arkansas area to try to
get more info . I .got a contact with a woman whose daughter
lives in Lonoke & whose mother lives in North Little Rock)had
seen a local KVTV broadcast at about 5 PM Friday the 10th.  The
daughter and her husband are now out looking for the site and
will try to sample it, if they can get access.  The mother in
N. Little Rock, who saw the local TV, broadcast, said that
three were whitish-greenish crystals on the burned
trees/plants.  Today the Little Rock Gazette is reporting an
area "40 acres" in size (over a mile long and 150' wide) of
forest and farmland is  burning in many spots...as if there
were multiple fires over this huge area.  No plane debris found
yet, no craters, nothing to indicate what started the fires.
Another contact of mine, JoAnne S. in Missouri called the KATV
News Desk and spoke to an unidentified woman who indicated that
the TV station was not putting out any more info...and the
military were involved,   JoAnne's impression was that the TV
people knew more than they were saying and that they had been
asked to stop coverage. Little Rock Air Force Base 13 miles
northwest of Lonokethat has a C-130 aircraft and the fire and
may have been  a plane. Thanks to Nancy Talbot.

SOUTHERN ARIZONA UFO SIGHTINGS

Scott Heckman writes that he has backpacked and hiked in the
Dragoon Mountains for over twenty years.  This is my home and
backyard. I have been observing these craft during this long
period time.  I have located regularly used air corridors all
across the Rocky Mountain States.  You may use my accounts of
the numerous UFOs I've seen and reported over Southern Arizona.
The Dragoon Mountain location is a place where a series of
unidentified craft utilizing signal-beacon communication
systems are observed.  They are often near the customary air
corridors.  The most major base that I have been able to follow
the craft towards is located in the Tonto National Forest and
the Tonto Basin.  This is a large and very remote geological
region.  I discovered this while camping in the Sierra Ancha
Wilderness.  The UFOs kept flying down into the basin two
minutes apart.  They flew low, out of the southeast.  at about
two thousand feet above the terrain.  The craft seemed to know
my location as they kept avoiding me when I would relocate my
position to get a better look.  During the daytime A-10's use
the area for training.  Re-fueling practice also occurs here
both day and night.  After a close sighting we usually call the
base and inquire if they have any night refueling operations.
They often reply "they are performing low level refueling
exercises".  I doubt it because low level refueling at night in
mountainous terrain is exceptionally dangerous.  These areas
have also been plagued with several unexplained disappearances
that have occurred in Cochise County over the last 30 years.
Cars are abandoned with people's ID; money and keys left
behind.  Their occupants are mysteriously missing, never to be
seen again.  This happens.  I have made sketches of various
craft and currently do not consider myself an investigator, but
merely an observer, or watcher.  Thanks to Scott Heckman
zachec@theriver.com

MALAYSIA CRATER IS CLAIMED TO BE UFO LANDING SPOT-

KAMPUNG GOBEK -- The Utusan Express in Kuala Lumpur, published
a story and picture on March 7, 2000, that shows a large
water-filled semi-circular circular ditch.  The villager's
claim that an object which emitted rays of light landed in the
area at 3: 00 AM.  Since the report of the landing by the
unidentified object, the village has had hundreds of people
visit the remote area to look at the phenomenon for themselves.
The village situated about 100 Kilometers from Kota Bharu town
has been transformed into a carnival-like atmosphere.  Many
hawkers took the opportunity to put up stalls while others
turned tour guides to the hundreds of vehicles converging to
the area.  Signs direct traffic along several roads in the
village to the "mystery crater".  A local Malay daily newspaper
claims several saw the UFO circling the airspace of Kupang town
at about 5:20 AM on Thursday, March 2 just prior to
disappearing. The UFO was a big, round object with a tapering
end in greenish blue color.  It was less noisy than an
aircraft.  The Space Science Studies Division said at the time
that there had been no UFO reports officially filed with them
since 1994; apart from a press report on a UFO sighting in
Tanjung Sepat a few years back claiming that there were
constant nightly movements in the air. The formation of a
crater in a marshland area is not something unusual, said an
engineer from the Drainage and Irrigation Department (DID).
Engineer Razali Mohamed Noor said the landing site was where an
irrigation canal was built 1983 for use by the farmers, and the
area may have collapsed naturally.  The Kelantan Geological
Survey Department will dispatch several officers there to
investigate the incident.  Thanks to Gerry @ Far Shores |
www.farshore.force9.co.uk

UK BLACK TRIANGLES

Dave from Skywatch writes,  "Here in South Cumbria around the
Morecombe Bay area, strange Flying Triangle craft are often
seen, not everyday but often enough for a lot people too accept
them as everyday things."  This area is on a civil and military
flight path, and it could be easy to disguise a flight from the
ground at night.  All reports I've heard off seem to fly over
the bay towards Preston and the RAF Station.  Rumors have
emerged of a no-go area there, so if that is where the
triangles are heading, that could be where some are based.  One
lady I know quite well confided this to me early last year.
She lives in Lancaster but works in Kendal.  The night was
still dark, the weather was rainy, and the sky was black.  As
she was driving home and had a clear view of the bay, she
suddenly saw lights in the middle of the bay which appeared to
make triangle in shape, for a moment she thought it was the
theme park Frontier Land, but then knew it couldn't be.  It was
not only too early in the season but also what was it doing in
the middle of Morecambe Bay anyway.  The lights came on for a
few moments then went off just as quickly.  A few days later it
was reported in one of the local papers and that's what
prompted her to tell me.  She needed to tell some one.  Last
months NEXUS Magazine claims the reporting of Flying Triangles
by the media are subject to 'D' Notices that restrict
publication of any stories in the interest of national
security.  It does not matter how many people witness such
crafts the media will not report any sightings of triangles in
the UK.  The official stand on this one is from the UK MOD who
have said to the BBC, off the record, that Triangles are
classified craft and confirmed they do exist within the MOD and
DOD.  Thanks to "David" <Dave @ ukskywatch

Editor's Note: New modern lighter than air airships could be
used to carry phased array raiders.  We should remember than in
1930s the dirigible Hindenberg was 820 feet long and flew the
Atlantic Ocean with ease.  True, it had an accident that killed
some 37 lives.  However these were magnificent ships and
comparatively safe.  In comparison train wrecks were causing
almost 10,000 deaths a year.  These new craft would be made
from ultra light, ultra strong composite material, with
surfaces looking more like conventional aircraft than the
familiar blimps.  Last year's Popular Mechanics article about
"Stealth Blimps", and the illustration that accompanied it was
probably nearer the mark than most realize!  They can be made
in any shape needed, such as a triangle and could carry Aegis
Cruiser radar system.

Len Stringfield who died in 1994, should long be remembered as
one of the great investigators into the possible of crashes
UFOs. In his book, "UFO Crash?  Retrievals Amassing the
Evidence III"  He starts off his book with the following quote:
"When you have eliminated the impossible , whatever remains ,
however, improbable must be truth."  Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET of some of the best UFO shots available and
data on their propulsion systems. $10.00

US GOVERNMENT UFO PROOF RELEASED: Audio tapes of a genuine UFO
Alert at Edwards Air Force base and studied by the Foreign
Technology Division at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, are now
available for distribution to the public.  Sam Sherman's audio
documentary tape called EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER on the
night of October 7, 1965, uses the actual voice recordings
provided by the Air Force.  During this event 12 high tech
luminous UFOs invade secure air space and came down low over
the runways at Edwards AFB.  Tower operator Sgt. Chuck Sorrels
spotted them and notified the Air Defense Command.  Sgt.
Sorrels is heard on the original tapes and in a new segment
where he verifies the event as it is heard on the archival
recordings.  The UFOs are described and a decision is made to
launch F-106 fighter interceptors.  You are there for an
important part of UFO history.  Hear it for yourself, it's the
best UFO tape ever made.  Tape cost is $14.95 each plus $2.00
for shipping -- total $16.95 -- (for overseas orders-out of US
- add $6.00 shipping cost -- total -- $20.95) you can send
either a personal check or money order to: Independent
International Pictures Corp, Box 565, Dept. GF, Old Bridge, New
Jersey 08857.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe by contacting Mufon@aol.com. Mention I
recommended you for membership.  Filer's Files is Copyrighted
2000 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
items from the Files on their Web Sites provided that they
credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue that the item appeared.  Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com.  Sending mail automatically grants
permission for us to publish. Please state if you wish to keep
your name or story confidential.










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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                    Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:10:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:57:50 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures


 >Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 05:11:05 -0500
 >From: Victor J.Kean <VICTOR_J_KEAN@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:33:06 -0500
 >>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:55:37 -0500
 >>>From: Victor J.Kean <VICTOR_J_KEAN@compuserve.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Activity After Base Closures
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>Ever since my sighting at the Canadian Forces Station
 >>>>Falconbridge, Sudbury, Ontario base in October 1990 (the base
 >>>>closed in 1987), I've been wondering the same thing!?

 >>>Would you happen to know the precise date and time of your
 >>>sighting ?

 >>Yes, I do. Between 8:30 p.m. and 8:55 p.m. FYI: On Tuesday,
 >>Ocotber 9, 1990, Venus had set with the sun and Jupiter did not
 >>rise until 12:00 a.m. (astronomical info I received from a
 >>member of the local astronomy club).

 >You may be interested to learn that the events at Falconbridge
 >on 11th November 1975 are detailed in the cuurnet issue of 'UFO
 >Magazine UK'


Victor,

I'm sorry to hear that! For some unknown reason, UFO Magazine UK
is no longer available here in Sudbury, Ontario. It's been a
while since I purchased the last available issue (May-June
1999).

However, I do have the official CFS Falconbridge documents
pertaining to the event in my possession.

I purchased 5 microfilm reels from the National Archives in
Ottawa (Ontario, Canada) which contained many UFO documents,
including those I mentioned above

Michel








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                              NUFORA - Updates

From: Tim Mathews <TMMatthews99@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:41:30 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:02:16 -0500
Subject: NUFORA - Updates


Dear Updates,

All the latest information from the National UFO Research
Association, NUFORA, is to be found on our regularly updated
website.

Latest additions include an in-depth report on our recent and
successful Warrington Conference - complete with ghost sighting
- and details of forthcoming events.

Thanks,

Tim Matthews - Press Officer.

http://www.angelfire.com/sd/NUFORA/index.html







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                                Re: Reed Hoax

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:17:50 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:06:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Reed Hoax


 >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:05:37 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:13:42 -0800
 >>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>Subject: Reed Hoax
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>As many of you know, Jonathan Reed and his partner Robert Raith
 >>>are at the International UFO Congress conference in Nevada
 >>>trying to sell their scam to the public.

 ><snip>

 >I just received the following message from someone who attended
 >the IUFO Congress meeting:

 >-----

 >What a show it was!

 >My girlfriend and I witnessed an Oscar winner performance of the
 >Reed/Raith IUFOC Show.

 >However, what I especially found interesting was the reaction of
 >the lap dog audience. They ate it up!

 >"You are Heroes!" and "You're among friends" was their response.

 >Reed/Raith made many references to how in this country you
 >should able to speak freely. Everyone cheered them on.

 >However that same feeling wasn't there for anyone that that
 >questioned their story in the slightest degree.

 >During a question and answer period some asked "point of order"
 >type questions about the video (i.e. "How was the sound so clear
 >considering that the mic. on the video camera should have been
 >turned away from your face?", "How did the camera stay so steady
 >considering that you where so out of breath?").

 >The audience treated these innocuous questions with hostility
 >reserved for murders and child molesters.  "Get the hell at of
 >here!" along with groans of disgust was the audience's reaction.

 >The first amendment must only apply to people who speak the
 >truth they want to hear. As long as people like that are part
 >of the "UFO Community", people like Reed/Raith will flourish. I
 >find the whole thing amazing.

 >I am not yet bulletin board member, you may post this if you
 >like.

 >Steve Skye
 >SSkye@skyelighting.com


Perhaps I was a bit too optimistic about people's rationality
than I should have been. Do these conferences have a Total
Ignorance 101 workshop that comes with the package deal? Oops,
sorry, I was confusing that with the How To Make Fast Cash From
UFO Conferences course every conference organizer takes. The
bottom line is no longer what's at the heart of the mystery.

Now it's what in the bank, how many videos/books can I sell,
what kind of a movie deal can I make, will NBC or FOX buy my UFO
special, ratings need a boost, and so on.

Of course, many serious ufologists are in a corner finding that
the only real way to finance their research/investigations is to
cave into many of these conferences and make appearances at
them.

It is truly sad to hear that people's emotional need to believe
over-rides their common sense. If you can't convince them with
evidence, then you just need to reach out to their hearts and
pocket books by crying out how everyone should be able to speak
freely in this country. Turn it into a First Amendment/This
Country Is Going To Hell issue.

I guess that means these guys should be free to promote their
fraud, not have to prove one bit of their fairy tale and should
be able to make a profit off their scam at the cost of serious
ufologist who work their asses off in a completely thankless
field. How can anyone in this field not understand why it gets
so little attention. Gee, beats me. I guess we can thank the
absolute morons who promote frauds like Reed at their
conferences and on their late night radio program.

I'll just keep plugging away and do what I do. Those hard
working ufologist out there - you know who are - have my respect
and gratitude for the sacrifices you make. You can tell who many
of the serious folks are, because you rarely hear their names
and they rarely ever have anything to hawk to the public.

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy - "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind."
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3  (eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog (UFO Hall o' Shame)








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                        Re: Jan Aldrich Not To Quit!

From: Marty <bubastis@warplink.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 22:36:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:09:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Jan Aldrich Not To Quit!


 >From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >A message from Jan Aldrich of PROJECT 1947 - one that
 >made for a much more pleasant sleep last night...

 >ebk

Jan wrote:

 >I had really decided to end my commitment to UFO research, your
 >messages changed my mind.

 >Best and warmest regards,

 >Jan Aldrich

Howdy Jan!

So glad to hear that you've changed your mind. I had linked the
UFO pages on my site to yours, as I think it is an excellent
source of information on the early days of UFO reports, and I'm
happy to hear you're not going to change any of that.

The work you're doing is amazing. Please keep it up. I wish you
all the best.

Marty Murray
The NAIL Online
http://www.WarpLink.com/~bubastis/index.html







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                        Re: Jan Aldrich Not To Quit!

From: Sue Strickland <strick@H2Net.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 07:40:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:13:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Jan Aldrich Not To Quit!


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >To: <02 - UFO UpDates Subscribers :;>
 >Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 7:25 AM
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Jan Aldrich Not To Quit!

 > From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto

Dear Jan Aldrich, ebk. other Researchers and List Members,

I just want to put my 2 cents worth in here.  Jan, I am soooo
glad you have decided to continue your work in ufology.  And, to
the other researchers (whatever your personal beliefs may be)
when/if you think seriously again about quitting ufology
(because it's too expensive, it takes too much time, it seems to
go in circles, you feel threatened personally and completely
overwhelmed with the negativity around you), try to remember
that the answers are _not_ for some one _else_ to find.  The
answers are there for _you_ to find.

What I say next may sound like I'm putting a guilt trip on all
of you as researchers.  That is truly _not_ my intent.  I want
to convey my sincere thanks, and try to give you something to
put on the back shelves of your minds, when you think and
consider quitting again. Your interest, persistence, concern for
others and strength of character are most important in order to
find the answers.  Without _you_ we would not be on this list.
Without all of you, what little we have discovered would not be.
That goes for _all_ researchers, including "debunkers."

Those of us who have been abducted or are still being abducted
are too close to the phenomenon/problem to be believed, most of
the time.  We are counting on you, Jan, and all the other
researchers, to _not_ quit.  We don't have the luxury of such an
option.  Neither do those children presently being abducted.
They are counting on _you_, too.

One more piece to the puzzle may be all that it takes to
complete the picture, and you may find that one little piece. It
may be a billion missing pieces, but with each passing year, I
see we are moving closer to finding some of the answers.  You
must be getting close, Jan, because it has been my experience
that the closer you get, the more negative the reactions.

"Remember the children." That is what I want all of you
researchers to put on the shelf in the back of your minds.
Sincerely, Sue Strickland, Grandma and ex-abductee for 10+
years.








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   Mar > Mar 13

                          Disney's Alien Encounter

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:24:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:14:56 -0500
Subject: Disney's Alien Encounter


Gnorts, Mr. Alien*

As a promo to the opening of New Tomorrowland in Disney World, a
few years ago CEO Michael Eisner appeared on a brief special
which aired only once and in less than a half dozen markets.
Many think the show was part of a test to see how the public
would react to willful disclosure.  Quotes from this show were
posted recently on a different list archived at:

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/media/mailing/archive/iufo/msg14712.shtml

One person quoted is Dr. Kevin Randle:  "There's beings from
another planet. We don't know where they come from, we don't
know what they're doing here. There's nothing we can do about
it..."

I would like to hear from Dr. Randle or anyone who might know if
Dr. Randle was cognizant of how his quote was being used in this
episode, if he knew more about the intent of the program either
then or now, and if this quotation still represents his
viewpoint.

Also, does anyone know if this video is available on the web?

TIA,

Terry

* gnortsmralien = neilarmstrong (reversed)







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                            'The Gate' Magazine?

From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:14:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:17:03 -0500
Subject: 'The Gate' Magazine?


Hi,

Is anyone out there familiar with a US magazine called 'The
Gate' (pub. Richmond, Ohio).

I am after the July '99 issue which, I'm told, features an
article about Welsh UFO crashes.

Any info, scanned article etc appreciated.

Happy Trails


Andy Roberts
UFOIN








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                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Chuck Sutton <chuckret@wans.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:12:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:21:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:03:11 -0300
 >From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be
 >Flares, Not UFOs To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >I'm not sure I understand the thrust of these comments. >
 >Perhaps I missed something important over the last year or so.
 >Maybe I was too busy on other things to notice, but am I to
 >understand that this Pheonix sighting has been solved? A rock
 >solid explanation has been presented?

 >Lemme know, because anything I have seen offered so far as an
 >explanation seems weak, particularly the flare explanation. Too
 >far away and too close to the ground to be seen in Pheonix.

Hello Don:

I have a feeling that you may be confusing the "Phoenix Lights"
case of approx. March 1997 with the more recent Phoenix Police
chase of the large triangular object on 10/14/99.

C.A.U.S. is actively persuing the "Gob-mint" in the Courts re: their
silly explainations.

P3N reported in a previous UFO UpDate that:

"In the Phoenix, Arizona federal lawsuit, Citizens Against UFO
Secrecy (CAUS) vs. the Department of Defense, Chief Judge
Stephen M. McNamee, once again ignored the government's plea to
dismiss the case, and instead took under advisement the group's
claims that the government was guilty of bad faith in its search
for information about a very unusual triangular aerial object."

Best Regards,
Chuck Sutton







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                         Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies

From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:09:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:24:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto [mailto:updates@sympatico.ca]
 >Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 3:32 PM
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies

 >It does puzzle me terribly why so few human beings seem able
 >to accept the condition of not-knowing.

Hello!  <waves "Hi!"> i'm one of those human beings.

I admit it: I need to know Everything.

... I figure only after knowing _everything_ will I possibly
have a shot (albeit probably a small one) of figuring out where
the Universe came from.

(That's the only question I have... it should be simple to
  answer, right?)

However, trying to be a Renaissance Man in the Information Age
is killing me.

I may have to stop & become a potato farmer.










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                            Hudson Valley Update?

From: William Sawers <wsawers@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:19:05 +1300
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:26:43 -0500
Subject: Hudson Valley Update?


I understand that Hudson Valley has had/is having more of the
same sightings of the "triangle shaped UFO" that prompted the
book by Philip Imbrogno (sp?) and I think Dr Hynek had a part in
it.

It was quite an interesting series of sightings and at times
sent a chill down my back as I read descriptions that
parallelled a sighting my wife and I had, in, of all places...
near a (little) NZ Air Force airfield outside the city of
Auckland New Zealand.

If anyone has a Web site or info on these latest sightings could
they please post.

Thanks in advance

William







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                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:27:45 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:32:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:13:07 -0800
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:03:11 -0300
 >>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:46:54 -0800
 >>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Hello Todd:

 >>>That sounds like a fine experiment! I hope somebody can do it.
 >>>I doubt it would do much to change the opinions of certain folks
 >>>however.

 >>I'm not sure I understand the thrust of these comments.
 >
 >>Perhaps I missed something important over the last year or so.
 >>Maybe I was too busy on other things to notice, but am I to
 >>understand that this Pheonix sighting has been solved? A rock
 >>solid explanation has been presented?

 >>Lemme know, because anything I have seen offered so far as an
 >>explanation seems weak, particularly the flare explanation. Too
 >>far away and too close to the ground to be seen in Pheonix.

 >>Don

 >Hello Don:

 >I wouldn't call the Phoenix Lights matter "solved".

Nor would I.

 >That's the problem with high lights, flares, BOLs and the like.
 >They cannot be solved. I no longer list them here, mainly for
 >that reason.
 >
 >Personally, and based on discussions on this and other lists, I
 >am persuaded that there is little if any merit to the Phoenix
 >Lights.

The questions that need to be asked are:

With the recent purported flare exercise, did anybody get off
their butt with a camcorder and video tape the falling flares,
confirming either that

a) they can in fact be seen from Phoenix or

b) they can't be.

Then if flare footage was in fact shot, how did it compare
against Phoenix? Etc., etc.

I would have thought that had their been ANY military exercise
involving flares, the skeptics would have been falling all over
themselves, demonstrating how they have explained the sightings
away, and how they could be directly compared to a flare drop.
Since this hasn't happened, one could assume that the flare
theory is burning out... pun intented.

Cheers,
Robert







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   Mar > Mar 14

                       Dan Goldin on CNN's 'Pinnacle'

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:45:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:44:00 -0500
Subject: Dan Goldin on CNN's 'Pinnacle'


 >Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 21:42:19 -0800
 >From: Rick Savard <tcdone@inland.net>
 >To: cydonia@listbox.com
 >Subject: Re: [M-TRAC - MSAA] Dan Goldin on Pinnacle CNN 8:30pmEST

 >Bry, please elaborate on Goldin's comments.  I was hoping that
 >the program would be on in California at 8:30pm PST, but it was
 >not, so I missed it. Specifically, I would like to know more
 >about the context of the comments and what followed the "I am
 >at the top of the temple" statement.

(Here are the last five or so minutes of the CNN 'Pinnacle'
interview with NASA's Director, Dan Goldin Sunday, March 12,
2000 8:30 p.m. est)

CNN:      So what will you do after this?

Goldin:   The space program is almost a religious experience for
           me. I am at the top of the temple. As someone who's
           worked in the space program I don't know that there's
           anything that I could do that could get my motor
           running like this job does.

           But you know what?  [very determined look] I would
           like to see a picture of a planet around a star, not a
           sun, and in that picture I'd like to see oceans,
           continents, mountain ranges and clouds and I'd like
           that picture to be in my grandson's room.

CNN:      [looking a little taken back rhetorically asks] You're
           talking about another life supporting planet in
           another solar system?

Goldin:   You've got that right. I don't know if it exists, but
           if it does exist, I want to see this country develop
           that technology in my lifetime, and I want to see us
           take that picture.

End

[Graphic] Dedicated to the memory of John Holliman, CNN National
           Correspondent

Sue









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   Mar > Mar 14

               Sloppy Management Blamed For Mars Orbiter Loss

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:54:00 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:08:36 -0500
Subject: Sloppy Management Blamed For Mars Orbiter Loss


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:12:32 -0500
From: AN NewsAlert <newsalert@astronow.cix.co.uk>
To: Astronomy Now NewsAlert <NewsAlert@astrolists.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Sloppy management blamed for Mars orbiter loss

       NEWSALERT: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 @ 1310 GMT
-------------------------------------------------------------
    The latest news from Astronomy Now and Spaceflight Now


SLOPPY MANAGEMENT BLAMED FOR MARS ORBITER LOSS
----------------------------------------------

An independent review board blames the loss of NASA's Mars
Climate Orbiter last year on sloppy project management, a lack
of agency oversight, poor communications and shortsighted
engineering. To avoid similar mishaps in the future, the board
called for NASA to adopt a "mission success first" approach.

    http://spaceflightnow.com/news/0003/14mcoreport/

<snip>








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              Ohio Man Reports 'Flying Saucers,' Leaps To Death

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:36:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:15:13 -0500
Subject: Ohio Man Reports 'Flying Saucers,' Leaps To Death


Published Tuesday, March 14, 2000
  in the Akron Beacon Journal.

Fall kills hospital patient in Canton
39-year-old man plunges seven floors from window

BY JOHN HIGGINS
and Andale Gross

Beacon Journal staff writers

CANTON: A 39-year-old Guernsey County patient at Mercy Medical
Center somehow got through the open window of his ninth-floor
room yesterday morning and plunged seven stories to an adjacent
roof.

The man, from Kimbolton, was declared dead at the scene. Canton
police found a bag of his clothing next to his body. He was
wearing his hospital gown.

Stark County coroner's investigator William Dishong said there
was no evidence of a struggle or foul play. However, police are
investigating to determine if it was a suicide or criminal act.

Relatives said they were planning to bring the man home from the
hospital yesterday when they learned of the accident, which
happened about 8:30 a.m.

A cousin, William Robert Juergens, said hospital officials told
him the man was "seeing flying saucers" and was agitated the
night before.

"I don't understand why they didn't have him psychologically
evaluated," Juergens said. "I was told that he was up pacing all
night, that he wasn't sleeping."

Canton Detective Capt. James Myers said the man took his action
quickly. The other patient in the semi-private room with him was
not aware of what happened.

Dishong said the man apparently closed the curtain separating
the beds. He said a nurse had been in the room within a foot of
the window two minutes before the patient was discovered
missing. The nurse said the window was closed at that time, but
when she returned, the window was open and the man was gone.

"I don't remember any other incidents where anyone jumped at a
hospital," Myers said.

The patient's room was on a general medical-surgical floor and
he had no visitors yesterday except nurses carrying out their
duties, Dishong said.

The hospital windows on that floor slide up and down rather than
swinging out. They are kept locked with special keys. No one
could explain yesterday how the window became unlocked. Myers
said the window was not broken.

Hospital spokesman Andy Gankoski did not comment on whether the
window was locked. The hospital issued a brief press release,
but did not offer details about the incident or the patient's
medical condition.

"We can't discuss the medical situation (of a patient) -- even
after they're dead," Gankoski said. Some of the staff received
counseling from the hospital's pastoral care department, he
said.

"This is a tragic event for everyone involved," Gankoski said.
"Our prayers and sympathy go out to his family."

The man had head injuries from a four-car auto accident Friday
in Plain Township, but it was not reported that he was
disoriented, Myers said.

Stark County Sheriff Timothy Swanson said witnesses reported
that the man was driving between 60 and 70 mph south on
Cleveland Avenue near the North Canton city limits with his
headlights off.

He struck several orange construction barrels before hitting
another car head-on. Two other cars were involved in the
accident, which occurred at 8:42 p.m. The man was not wearing a
seat belt.

No one was seriously injured. Swanson said there were no signs
of drug or alcohol use.

Juergens, a long-haul truck driver, was in Miami most of the
weekend. He said his cousin was returning from a visit with
relatives in the Cleveland area.

He said his cousin was never married and had no children, but
lived with a dog named Toto. He had a high-pressure job as an
accountant for several oil firms in Houston and Venezuela until
about two years ago, Juergens said.

Since then, he has delivered pizzas in Cambridge. The Cleveland
State University graduate was much calmer after he gave up his
accountant's job and didn't appear suicidal, Juergens said.

"Everybody I speak with is trying to say he jumped, and I can't
see him doing that. He just wasnt that kind of person," Juergens
said. "He had some mental problems. He had some breakdowns, but
he never hurt himself or anybody else... He was more worried
about getting home to get his dog fed."

An only child, the man leaves behind his mother in suburban
Cleveland, an aunt, an uncle and several close cousins, among
other relatives.

Funeral arrangements are pending at Kacirek funeral home in
North Olmsted. Funeral director Mark Kacirek said he had been
contacted by family members but did not have details.

Juergens said he wonders why hospital officials weren't
supervising his cousin more carefully, especially since he was
exhibiting signs of mental instability.

"I don't understand why he's dead -- he shouldn't be dead,"
Juergens said.

Staff writer George W. Davis contributed to this report.

End of article
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/








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                       Strange Days... Indeed Archive

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:01:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:01:01 -0500
Subject: Strange Days... Indeed Archive

http://members.xoom.com/strangedaysi/sdix.htm

and will eventually U/L the complete archive there.

It'll take a while or two to convert everything to .rm/ra files.

Those files won't 'stream' - they can only be down-loaded.

It seems that the folk at Xoom.com allow 'members' to, freely,
archive an almost 'limitless' amount of data. 'Limitless' being
about 500Mbs - which some subscribers here might want to think
about.

Since the loss of an old version of RealAudio encoder [in a CD-R
fiasco last year] that allowed me to to convert .WAVs to 8Kbs,
I've had to use RealProducer, which doubles the size of files
and takes a while to D/L at 56K. So, if anyone has an old
version of RealEncoder, please let me know...

Last Sunday nights program, with Richard Hoagland, should be
available later tonight.


Errol Bruce-Knapp

-----

Listen to Strange Days... Indeed, Sunday nights at 21:00 Eastern
on:

CFRB 1010 AM - 50,000 watts

6070khz [on the 40 metre band] Shortwave

and the Eureka Digital Broadcast System in Toronto.

You can also listen via Media Player at:

www.cfrb.com/

Archived at:

http://members.xoom.com/strangedaysi/sdix.htm










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   Mar > Mar 15

                           Is CNN Editing Reality?

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:14:54 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:46:46 -0500
Subject: Is CNN Editing Reality?


On April 6, 1998, the day that the MGS Face image was released,
CNN science reporter John Holliman wrote an on-line article in
which he described the JPL "enhancement" now affectionately
referred to as "the Catbox" as follows:

"But the first raw image of the region of Mars called Cydonia
was a dark rectangle with a blotchy white patch that might or
might not be the 'Face' formation seen from the Viking mission
to Mars in the 1970s."

That was a fair description - probably the only one to appear
during the media stampede caused by JPL's release of the Catbox.
However, the released image was not raw as Holliman supposed at
the time. The released image had been heavily processed in a way
that removed most of the tonal variation present in the raw
image, almost completely flattening what is known to be a
400-meter high landform, giving it an appearance some have
described as being similar to a "footprint."

The last time I checked in January, this article was still in
the CNN archives at:

http://cnn.com/TECH/space/9804/06/mars.face.ap

But it isn't there anymore.

What is probably the only thing ever written by a CNN reporter
that referred to the quality of a JPL data product in negative
terms (and justifiably so) has been removed from their archive.

I thought at first that maybe CNN had just deleted it along with
other older articles to make room for newer ones in their
archive, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Articles written before and after this one are still in the CNN
archive, including those on Cydonia written by Holliman that
dutifully reported on the JPL party line immediately proclaimed
by Dr. Albee and other JPL officials - after NASA promised to
withhold comment on the artificiality question.

That's one of the problems with the Internet as a news medium.
History can be changed without leaving a paper trail.

As to the reasons why this article has apparently been singled
out for deletion, I think  Holliman's comment speaks for itself.
Science reporters just aren't supposed to say bad things about
JPL unless it's absolutely unavoidable, like when they crash
hundred-million dollar space probes into Mars.

I e-mailed CNN to find out what happened to the article, but so
far I've received no reply. I'd like to see the article put back
on the CNN web site, but I'm not optimistic about that
happening.










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                       Hoagland on Art Bell - 3-15-00

From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:05:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:10:27 -0500
Subject: Hoagland on Art Bell - 3-15-00


I'm sure some will flame me, but if there was ever _any_ doubt
that Richard 'Cydonia' Hoagland is completely out of his mind,
please just listen to the few hours he just did on tonight's Art
Bell.

Don't take my word for it, go to http://www.artbell.com &
look for the RealAudio for Wed, 3/15/00, ~1:30am - 4:00am

I think the guy could find a "pattern" (and, of course, a
_conspiratorial_ pattern at that) in a pile of cow dung.

(Oh, wait, cow dung probably does have a pattern in it...
  well, you know whatImean.)

If nothing else, the guy is making proclamation after
proclamation about what Brian DePalma was _really_ saying in his
movie... all without, of course, having had to first _ask_ Mr.
DePalma (who is allegedly in-communicado) or confirming it with
him.

He's also finding all kinds of hidden & secret messages in
NASA's Dan Goldin's comments about the future of the space
program, his desire to put humans on Mars, his desire to have a
photo of an extrasolar planet, etc.

Sheesh...

Sorry, Ijust had to rant.

"We now return you to your regularly scheduled program."










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   Mar > Mar 15

                    Reed Hoax & The Laughlin UFO Congress

From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:55:39 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:52:45 -0500
Subject: Reed Hoax & The Laughlin UFO Congress


 >Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:23:08 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:05:37 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca


To Robert Gates and the List,

I think that you just gave a good illustration of the
"Hoax-Debunking scenario", which we could also call the "Rotten
Apple scenario" : if I find a rotten apple in the barrel I throw
them all out.

What is the sceenario in this case ?

A dubious speaker is invited at a convention, together with
about thirty others. You are right to lament that he was well
received by the audience (I can confirm that since I was there :
I glanced five minutes in the room to check that). But I can
also tell you that many speakers did not buy it (I checked that
too).

Never mind, your mind is set already.

They have invited Reed, therefore there was nothing good there :

 >Being that the organizers of this conference seem to want people
 >whose credentials don't check out, and whose very basic story
 >doesn't check out, kind of tells me the conference is not a
 >serious conference, but a UFO entertainment show.


And that's what is so devastating. There were some very
interesting presentations there, but do you care to know? The
only mails I have seen on this list are to laugh at Reed and the
Laughlin congress.

Just a few names - as examples but there were others:

Joe Lewels (I missed his speech but I know he is a good one,
having read his book. BTW have you read it?)

Roger Leir - new implants. He came with one of his patients. I
talked with him several times and found him quite credible

Ron Regher (very competent talk on spy satellites and their use
for UFO surveillance)

George Knapp - interviews, as yet undisclosed, of Philip Corso

Peter Davenport - remarkable, well documented and illustrated
cases

Daniel Sheenan  - brillant speech, met with standing ovation.

Cheers,

Gildas Bourdais









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                                    Test

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:32:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:32:17 -0500
Subject: Test

ebk






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                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Kathy Hotchner <khotchner@uswest.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:36:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:54:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

 >Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:23:08 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:05:37 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca


Hello Robert, Don, Larry, and list,

Here is what seems to be the real truth and the confusion over
the Phoenix lights.  Two events happened on March 13, a real
sighting that to date remains unidentified, and the flares.  At
8:30 pm a huge unidentified flying object was seen by many
residents flying silently, and very low, over the metropolitan
area.  It was seen by many people, adults and kids, family
groups, teens "making out" at a lovers point on South Mountain.
All described it as a huge triangle with 5 lights.

There is one known video tape taken of this UFO.  People say
they saw it pass directly over their heads, their homes, maybe
30 feet above them. During this sighting a mufon member, using
binoculars, believes he saw military jets flying near and around
this slow moving object.

Then later that night, at 10:00 pm, there was the second
sighting, which has been now called the Phoenix Lights.  These
are now believed by most to have truly been flares.  This is the
film of the lights that so many of you have seen on television.
The explanation for this event is that a military plane had to
unload it's flares before it was allowed to land at the air
base. The base and the military have records to confirm this
forced "dumping."

Belief here, with many, is that the air force dumped the flares
to distract and confuse the public off the real event that
happened at 8:30.

If this is true it has worked very well.  Everyone confuses the
two sightings. The witnesses to the 8:30 event are debunked by
the flare reality.  Some of the media here, particularly talk
radio KTAR give the witnesses' accounts credence, but the
Arizona Republic, our only newspaper,  and most TV stations
continuously make fun of the sightings.  The case that Peter
Gersten has filed in the court, his affidavits, are for the 8:30
sighting, not for what you have seen on TV as the Phoenix
Lights.

Hope this helps to clarify things out here in the West.

Kathy








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                         Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies

From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:01:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:58:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies


 >Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:09:07 -0800
 >From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
 >Subject: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies
 >To: 'UFO UpDates - Toronto' <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto [mailto:updates@sympatico.ca]
 >>Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 3:32 PM
 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Supposed Time-Anomalies

 >>It does puzzle me terribly why so few human beings seem able
 >>to accept the condition of not-knowing.

 >Hello! <waves "Hi!">i'm one of those human beings.
 >I admit it: I need to know Everything.

... I figure only after knowing _everything_ will I possibly

 >have a shot (albeit probably a small one) of figuring out where
 >the Universe came from.
 >(That's the only question I have... it should be simple to
 >answer, right?)

Actually you are the point of the post - the idea is that we
accumulate information, knowledge, but without necessarily
drawing any conclusions of any kind until we have enough to then
finally sort it all out and arrive at an answer to the _small_
question we all have! Its getting past the human tendency to
jump to conclusions and judge without adequate info that is the
problem we share.

History is full of such conclusions that are great for a laugh
now. Will the too early judgements now so oft seen on this list
someday become the source of many laughs at our folly by future
generations?

 >However, trying to be a Renaissance Man in the Information Age
 >is killing me.

 >I may have to stop & become a potato farmer.

Hey, I grow potatoes for our family every year on our small
farm - organically of course! Don't knock it - it sure keeps
your head tuned into this reality, while giving you plenty of
head time to fantasize 'what ifs'! And the potato patch is only
about 125 feet from where I has my first UFO sighting! And no,
I was not out planting the potatoes by the light of the full
moon to ensure a huge harvest ;-)

Lesley Cluff










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   Mar > Mar 15

                       Re: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:21:45 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:01:18 -0500
Subject: Re: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00


 >Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:25:43 -0600
 >From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:04:17 -0800
 >>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
 >>Subject: Re: PRG Press Release - 3/10/00
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>The previews gave _me_ the following impression:

 >>A crew goes to Mars and discovers a secret NASA has been hiding
 >>for years for fear of the implications. The secret is so
 >>terrible that you will regret the revelation. It has to do with
 >>ET, of course, as you catch a glimpse of a group of the familiar
 >>silhouettes.

 >>The trailer is a fraud and every person who sees the movie
 >>should go home and fax Touchstone for misrepresentation.

 >I was really surprised to see the promo for M2M on TV. It made
 >explicit references to a NASA cover-up and even showed one of
 >the Viking images of the Face.

 >Hoagland thinks this represents some sort of falling out between
 >Disney and NASA.

 >My guess is that the promo was a desperate attempt by the guys
 >in advertising to save a movie that promises to be something of
 >a turkey at the box office, if the reviews I've read so far are
 >any indication.


Hello Lan:

That may well be. Hoagland himself was on the Art Bell show
Tuesday night trying to pump up the film and put it in the best
possible light.

This in spite of even Art Bell, who indicated that he was not
very impressed with it! I guess Art had nothing to gain or lose
either way this time.

Hoagland was trying to suggest that the film was a way of
cracking the conspiracy to hide or ignore the Cydonia Face etc.
etc. etc.


Best!

- Larry Hatch

- - - - - -








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                          Re: Hudson Valley Update?

From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:35:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:07:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Update?


 >From: William Sawers <wsawers@ihug.co.nz>
 >Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:19:05 +1300
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:26:43 -0500
 >Subject: Hudson Valley Update?

 >Iunderstand that Hudson Valley has had/is having more of the
 >same sightings of the "triangle shaped UFO" that prompted the
 >book by Philip Imbrogno (sp?) andIthink Dr Hynek had a part
 >in it.

 >If anyone has a Web site or info on these latest sightings
 >could they please post.

I haven't yet heard about a recent-recent sighting, about the
only thing i've heard recently was Bruce Cornet claiming that a
red laser light was targetting him & following his car...

At any rate, a few links to gather more NY/HV/PB info:

New York
http://www.ufomind.com/place/us/ny/

Pine Bush / Hudson Valley, NY, Sightings
http://www.ufomind.com/place/us/ny/pinebush/

(as usual, UFO Mind is highly comprehensive)

The Flying Saucer Gazette
http://users.erols.com/sardonica/

(This was an e-zine, newly defunct, that chronicled much of the
Pine Bush phenomenon.  you probably won't find anything about
what you're talking asking, but it's still great reading.)

New York State MUFON
http://members.aol.com/jgbouck/index.html

(they might know -- *should* know! -- about any recent
sightings.)

And, even though I hate to do it, the 2 names most- associated
with the entire PB thing (after Hynek):

Bruce Cornet
http://www.ufomind.com/people/c/cornet/

Ellen Crystall
http://www.ufomind.com/people/c/crystall/

(I say "hate", 'cause, well... I admit it:Icannot
  take those 2 people very seriously.)

Finally, if you're in the mood to run around a field at night
waving a flashlight & chanting "Yooooooou... Effffffff...
Ooooooooh...", Greer is holding a workshop not too far from PB:

http://www.cseti.org/programs/upcoming.htm

     April 29 - May 6
     Ambassadors to the Universe Training and Fieldwork
     Dr. Steven Greer
     Newburgh, NY (Near Pine Bush, UFO Hotspot)

He probably won't know anything about any recent sightings (he's
been too busy working on all that *proof* he has for us...)
(hey, then where is he finding time to do these workshops...?),
but it'll probably be amusing.  Do you have $600 to spare?

(I wanna be an Ambassador to the Universe!!!)

Oh, actually, FWIW, PB still has monthly meetings on the 1st
Wednesday of every month, from 7:30-10, in the town hall across
from the high school.

If there's been any recent sighting,Iwould think that someone
there might know something.

Take care,

Ron










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                                Re: Reed Hoax

From: James S Mortellaro <docgripple@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:45:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:10:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Reed Hoax


 >Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:17:50 -0800
 >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Perhaps I was a bit too optimistic about people's rationality
 >than I should have been. Do these conferences have a Total
 >Ignorance 101 workshop that comes with the package deal? Oops,
 >sorry, I was confusing that with the How To Make Fast Cash From
 >UFO Conferences course every conference organizer takes. The
 >bottom line is no longer what's at the heart of the mystery.

 >Now it's what in the bank, how many videos/books can I sell,
 >what kind of a movie deal can I make, will NBC or FOX buy my UFO
 >special, ratings need a boost, and so on.

 >Of course, many serious ufologists are in a corner finding that
 >the only real way to finance their research/investigations is to
 >cave into many of these conferences and make appearances at
 >them.

 >It is truly sad to hear that people's emotional need to believe
 >over-rides their common sense. If you can't convince them with
 >evidence, then you just need to reach out to their hearts and
 >pocket books by crying out how everyone should be able to speak
 >freely in this country. Turn it into a First Amendment/This
 >Country Is Going To Hell issue.

 >I guess that means these guys should be free to promote their
 >fraud, not have to prove one bit of their fairy tale and should
 >be able to make a profit off their scam at the cost of serious
 >ufologist who work their asses off in a completely thankless
 >field. How can anyone in this field not understand why it gets
 >so little attention. Gee, beats me. I guess we can thank the
 >absolute morons who promote frauds like Reed at their
 >conferences and on their late night radio program.

 >I'll just keep plugging away and do what I do. Those hard
 >working ufologist out there - you know who are - have my respect
 >and gratitude for the sacrifices you make. You can tell who many
 >of the serious folks are, because you rarely hear their names
 >and they rarely ever have anything to hawk to the public.


Dear Royce;

If you are suggesting that "legitimacy" in Ufological research
precludes having a book or appearance on the Gesundt (or
equivalent) Show and Dweeb Site, I may agree.  However this will
eliminate more than 99% of the present AOURAAS.  (Association of
UFO Researchers, Authors and Speakers).

If you are suggestion that legitimacy in Ufological research
precludes having the truth and representing yourself as having
it, then you must ban, at the very _least_, 99.5% of those
claiming to be such ... researchers, that is.

If you are suggesting that legitimacy in Ufological research
precludes promoting fraud, I am afraid that many researchers and
even more, sightings and abduction claimants, should be banned
from stating their cases as well.

I am not entirely certain, but this sounds a lot like the
approach of tyranny to an otherwise democratic (or
constitutional republic, etc.) philosophy thus far accepted even
in communist nations ...  to an extent greater than you suggest.

May I advert listening to everyone and making up your own mind?
Or is that aksing too much?  'Scuse the "aksing," as I am
largely from the Bronx.  Although a piece of me is from Mongo.
Snotta Maria.

Sorry, but no matter how screwy the message, I prefer being able
to hear or read it than having people select what I may or may
not hear or read.  In other words, while I completely agree that
some may be complete loony bins, and while it angers me to read
trash as much as you, I read it.  Because I learn from it.  Yes,
even the loonies.

And if it bothers one to _have_ to read it, do as some others do
on this list, and have suggested most recently about moi,  press
that beloved "delete" key.

Or go listen to Dylan and drink some fresh wine.

Sniveling about the idiots doth not make the idiots go away.
Banning them ain't the answer needer.

Jim Mortellaro









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                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:39:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:33:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


ORBS OR FLARES? Not Solved

 >Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:27:45 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:13:07 -0800
 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:03:11 -0300
 >>>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Hello Don:

 >>I wouldn't call the Phoenix Lights matter "solved".

 >Nor would I.

 >>That's the problem with high lights, flares, BOLs and the like.
 >>They cannot be solved. I no longer list them here, mainly for
 >>that reason.

 >>Personally, and based on discussions on this and other lists, I
 >>am persuaded that there is little if any merit to the Phoenix
 >>Lights.

 >The questions that need to be asked are:

 >With the recent purported flare exercise, did anybody get off
 >their butt with a camcorder and video tape the falling flares,
 >confirming either that

 >a) they can in fact be seen from Phoenix or

 >b) they can't be.

 >Then if flare footage was in fact shot, how did it compare
 >against Phoenix? Etc., etc.

 >I would have thought that had their been ANY military exercise
 >involving flares, the skeptics would have been falling all over
 >themselves, demonstrating how they have explained the sightings
 >away, and how they could be directly compared to a flare drop.
 >Since this hasn't happened, one could assume that the flare
 >theory is burning out... pun intented.>


I have been informed by a resident/witness ('Dr. Lynn') that
there were flares seen and videotaped by the TV people. She says
these flares fo not look like the March 13 (or other date)
"orbs" that are part of the March 13 1997 events.  Video shows
smoke and parachutes.

HOWEVER: I question whether or not the conditions have been
duplicated. Pro video cameras are not home video cameras.

I have yet to hear of a home video of these flares.

I suspect that after initially videotaping _incorrectly_ (from
the viewpoint of duplicating the past events) the flares the
newsmedia and witnesses "gave up." AFter all, different is what
the witnesses wanted to hear, and apparently that's what the
media discovered. Of course, videotaping a flare from a few
miles away with a $50,000 camera is _likely_ to be different
than videotaping with a home video from 60 miles away!

I guess the TV stations have no "science advisor"  (oh yeah,
the weatherman!) Another opportunity blown? Wait till next
year?










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                             Re: Water on Mars?

From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:21:38 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:36:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Water on Mars?


Given the NASA news reports about recently discovered canals on
Mars, I would like to hear comments from the list on how these
canals might have been formed. As you read through my logic
posted below, you will see that I am not convinced it was water.
Therefore, if it wasn't water than what or who created the
canals on Mars?

I find it somewhat amusing that planetary scientists will, on
the one hand, scoff at the interpretation of the Cydonia region
as containing artificial structures, while on the other hand,
exclaim that the valleys and crevices seen on the Martian
surface must have been due to liquid water.

In both cases, the human brain is trying to make sense out of
visual clues. However, a little analysis is in order.

I have not heard of any planetary scientist consider that fact
that the mass of Mars could never support the atmosphere
required for the surface barometric pressure to allow liquid
water to exist.  Liquid water is extremely volatile, if it
exists at all, at less than 10 millibar of pressure. That is a
fact of thermodynamics. How could a "heavier" atmosphere exist
without additional planetary mass?

Even Malin Space Science Systems has received large monetary
grants from NASA to search for evidence of rain on Mars. Then
they are suprised when they don't find such evidence.

It seems to me that even scientists aren't immune from
pseudoscience.

So where did the canals come from?







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                         Re: Is CNN Editing Reality?

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:48:46 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:13:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Is CNN Editing Reality?


 >Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:14:54 -0600
 >From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Is CNN Editing Reality?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


Hi Lan and others,

 >On April 6, 1998, the day that the MGS Face image was released,
 >CNN science reporter John Holliman wrote an on-line article in
 >which he described the JPL "enhancement" now affectionately
 >referred to as "the Catbox" as follows:



Following this up,

Whether CNN has edited an image of Mars I don't know. I do know
that CNN has admitted that military persons were employed by CNN
during the Kosovo conflict. Obviously communication specialists,
they were working for CNN as so called "interns. In other words,
there is evidence that CNN does cooperate with authorities when
asked to.


Groeten,

Henny







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             New Research Casts Doubts On False Memory Syndrome

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:48:47 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:18:31 -0500
Subject: New Research Casts Doubts On False Memory Syndrome

Source: SIGHTINGS

http://www.sightings.com/politics6/fms.htm


New Research Casts Doubts On False Memory Syndrome

By Patricia Reaney

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000313/sc/health_memory_2.html

3-15-00

LONDON (Reuters) - British scientists say they have cast doubts
on the prevalence of False Memory Syndrome and the idea that
recovered memories are often bogus ones induced by therapists.

The theory that memories of events which never occurred can be
constructed by suggestion during therapy has been used
successfully as a defense by those accused of child abuse, to
discredit children's testimony.

Researchers at University College London claim their study of
data from 236 adults with recovered memories shows many are of
true past events. "There is now consistent evidence that 'False
Memory Syndrome' cannot explain all, or even most, examples of
recovered memories of trauma," the British Psychological Society
said in a statement.

"There is increasing evidence that many recovered memories
cannot be explained by so-called False Memory Syndrome. To date
there is no convincing evidence for a specific False Memory
Syndrome, "Dr. Bernice Andrews, who conducted the study, told
Reuters.

"What we've shown is that a substantial proportion of these
memories have been corroborated," she said in a telephone
interview. Contrary to common belief, she added, not all
repressed    memories are about childhood sexual abuse. They can
result from many types of trauma and not all are recovered
during therapy.

"People often come into therapy because they have started to
remember things that have happened in the past. In our study
around a third of cases were people who came into therapy after
recovering memories," said Andrews.

She and her colleagues interviewed 108 qualified therapists
about the 236 patients. They said the most common triggers for
recovering memories were events concerning patients' own
children that they associated with violence or fear that they
felt themselves. Less often books, videos and memory recovery
techniques    were used to help patients recall the events.

"Therapists in the majority of cases do not use aggressive,
suggestive techniques to get their clients to remember things.
They (memories) come up just as a matter of course during
therapy and are often accompanied by a lot of emotion as though
the person is reliving the event in the present," Andrews
explained.

The researchers said their study cannot prove that all recovered
memories are true. "You certainly can't explain all instances of
people recovering memories in therapy in terms of so-called
False Memory Syndrome," Andrews added.

-----

Groeten,

Henny







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   Mar > Mar 15

                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:35:04 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:27:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:12:10 -0800
 >From: Chuck Sutton <chuckret@wans.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:03:11 -0300
 >>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be
 >>Flares, Not UFOs To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>I'm not sure I understand the thrust of these comments. >
 >>Perhaps I missed something important over the last year or so.
 >>Maybe I was too busy on other things to notice, but am I to
 >>understand that this Pheonix sighting has been solved? A rock
 >>solid explanation has been presented?

 >>Lemme know, because anything I have seen offered so far as an
 >>explanation seems weak, particularly the flare explanation. Too
 >>far away and too close to the ground to be seen in Pheonix.

 >Hello Don:

 >I have a feeling that you may be confusing the "Phoenix Lights"
 >case of approx. March 1997 with the more recent Phoenix Police
 >chase of the large triangular object on 10/14/99.

<snip>

Hi Chuck,

I'm familiar with both cases. What leads you to think I am
confusing the two?

Don Ledger








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   Mar > Mar 15

                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:50:51 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:39:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs



 >Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:36:40 -0700
 >From: Kathy Hotchner <khotchner@uswest.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Hello Robert, Don, Larry, and list,

 >Here is what seems to be the real truth and the confusion over
 >the Phoenix lights.  Two events happened on March 13, a real
 >sighting that to date remains unidentified, and the flares.  At
 >8:30 pm a huge unidentified flying object was seen by many
 >residents flying silently, and very low, over the metropolitan
 >area.  It was seen by many people, adults and kids, family
 >groups, teens "making out" at a lovers point on South Mountain.
 >All described it as a huge triangle with 5 lights.

 >There is one known video tape taken of this UFO.  People say
 >they saw it pass directly over their heads, their homes, maybe
 >30 feet above them. During this sighting a mufon member, using
 >binoculars, believes he saw military jets flying near and around
 >this slow moving object.

 >Then later that night, at 10:00 pm, there was the second
 >sighting, which has been now called the Phoenix Lights.  These
 >are now believed by most to have truly been flares.  This is the
 >film of the lights that so many of you have seen on television.
 >The explanation for this event is that a military plane had to
 >unload it's flares before it was allowed to land at the air
 >base. The base and the military have records to confirm this
 >forced "dumping."

 >Belief here, with many, is that the air force dumped the flares
 >to distract and confuse the public off the real event that
 >happened at 8:30.

 >If this is true it has worked very well.  Everyone confuses the
 >two sightings. The witnesses to the 8:30 event are debunked by
 >the flare reality.  Some of the media here, particularly talk
 >radio KTAR give the witnesses' accounts credence, but the
 >Arizona Republic, our only newspaper,  and most TV stations
 >continuously make fun of the sightings.  The case that Peter
 >Gersten has filed in the court, his affidavits, are for the 8:30
 >sighting, not for what you have seen on TV as the Phoenix
 >Lights.

 >Hope this helps to clarify things out here in the West.

Hi Kathy,

This helps me. But I would like to know where the flares were
dumped,and the distance from Pheonix.

Don








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   Mar > Mar 15

                          Re: Hudson Valley Update?

From: Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:21:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:04:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Update?


 >From: William Sawers <wsawers@ihug.co.nz>
 >Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:19:05 +1300
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Hudson Valley Update?

 >Iunderstand that Hudson Valley has had/is having more of the
 >same sightings of the "triangle shaped UFO" that prompted the
 >book by Philip Imbrogno (sp?) andIthink Dr Hynek had a part
 >in it.

 >If anyone has a Web site or info on these latest sightings
 >could they please post.

Toward the end of his life, Dr. J. Allen Hynek was a frequent
visitor to my home, the last of his visits taking place from
August 20 to August 31. 1985, when he finally left to have his
first surgery on September 5, 1985. After that his health
declined rapidly and unfortunately he died on April 27, 1986.

During those visits, Dr. Hynek did quite a bit of work using my
computer which was quite similar to his own at home. At that
time, his interest was centered on the Hudson Valley sightings

Time marched on, and after Dr. Hynek passed away, the work was
completed by Bob Pratt and published in book form in 1987, under
the title 'Night Siege'.

One day, revising my diskettes, I found a file labeled
'Imbrogno' which I did not recognise.

When I opened it, it was a paper intended to be the Preface of
the book, that undoubtedly by error Allen had saved on one of my
diskettes (on August 30, 1985, just the day before he left my
home).

It is a remarkable piece, and once you read it it will be easy
to understand why it was not used as initially intended.

I think the time has come to release it through the InterNet, so
everyone can see what Dr. Hynek's thoughts about these
remarkable sightings really were. I strongly suggest that you
compare 'The Roots Of Complacency' (as Hynek himself titled it)
with the version that appeared in 'Night Siege'.

Dr. Willy Smith
UNICAT PROJECT
June 1999

----------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center

'THE ROOTS OF COMPLACENCY' by Dr. Hynek is on our Web page:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/1341/index.html










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   Mar > Mar 15

                             Re: Water on Mars?

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:30:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:14:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Water on Mars?


 >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:21:38 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >Subject: Water on Mars?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Given the NASA news reports about recently discovered canals on
 >Mars, I would like to hear comments from the list on how these
 >canals might have been formed. As you read through my logic
 >posted below, you will see that I am not convinced it was water.
 >Therefore, if it wasn't water than what or who created the
 >canals on Mars?

 >I find it somewhat amusing that planetary scientists will, on
 >the one hand, scoff at the interpretation of the Cydonia region
 >as containing artificial structures, while on the other hand,
 >exclaim that the valleys and crevices seen on the Martian
 >surface must have been due to liquid water.

 >In both cases, the human brain is trying to make sense out of
 >visual clues. However, a little analysis is in order.

 >I have not heard of any planetary scientist consider that fact
 >that the mass of Mars could never support the atmosphere
 >required for the surface barometric pressure to allow liquid
 >water to exist.  Liquid water is extremely volatile, if it
 >exists at all, at less than 10 millibar of pressure. That is a
 >fact of thermodynamics. How could a "heavier" atmosphere exist
 >without additional planetary mass?

 >Even Malin Space Science Systems has received large monetary
 >grants from NASA to search for evidence of rain on Mars. Then
 >they are suprised when they don't find such evidence.

 >It seems to me that even scientists aren't immune from
 >pseudoscience.

 >So where did the canals come from?


Dear Tim,

A friend of mine who got in touch with Vince Depietro and Greg
Molinar (Viking Mission) purchased a publication by Depietro
which showed a sequence of photos indicating an active geiser of
some kind on Mars, in addition to the other symetrical
structures.

I doubt it's ejecting water, but... it is interesting,
nonetheless. It seems there aren't a lot of people who are aware
of this find or are talking about it at all.

Just thought you might want to know.

Michel M. Deschamps









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   Mar > Mar 15

                           Philip Going To Florida

From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:15:37 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:38:21 -0500
Subject: Philip Going To Florida


---

 From Philip Mantle

I just thought you might like to know that within the next few
weeks I will be visiting Florida with my wife and family for a
two week holiday.

I was therefore wondering if anyone out there would be
interested in a lecture.

I can present a three hour audio visual lecture based on my
involvement with UFO research in the UK over the last 20 years.

This would cover UFO investigations conducted by me, my research
into UK abductions, and of course my on-going research and
involvement into the alien autopsy film.

I am willing to travel within the Florida area to make such a
presentation which would be extensively illustrated with slides
and video's.

If you are interested, or know anyone that might be interested,
then please contact me as soon as possible direct at:

pmquest@dial.pipex.com


Yours Sincerely,

Philip Mantle.









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   Mar > Mar 16

                         The NASA/Disney Connection

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:23:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:05:28 -0500
Subject: The NASA/Disney Connection


Source: Marshall Space Flight Centre History Office

http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/sf/disney.html

[Originally,

  From: earth_2012 <earth@somtel.com>
  To: davidicke <davidicke2000@egroups.com>
  Subject: DavidIcke2000 The Nasa/Disney Connection Since 1950
  Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:54:07 -0500

  From: Rich Hansen <siwahoasis@hotmail.com>

  From: Brian Zinkle <bzinkle@mwt.net> ]
  To:   M-TRAC - MSAA List <cydonia@admin.listbox.com>

-----

EXCERPTS:

Von Braun served as technical advisor on three space-related
television films that Disney produced in the 1950s. Together,
von Braun (the engineer) and Disney (the artist) used the new
medium of television to illustrate how high man might fly on the
strength of technology and the spirit of human imagination.

****************************************************************

Disney personally introduced the first television show, 'Man in
Space', which aired on ABC on March 9, 1955.

****************************************************************

"He provided a wealth of information on technical details, from
in-orbit fueling operations down to problems of cooking and
eating under weightlessness,"

****************************************************************

The second show in the series also aired in 1955 and was called
'Man and the Moon'

****************************************************************

The final show in the series aired on December 4, 1957, and was
entitled 'Mars and Beyond'.

****************************************************************


"The Disney-Von Braun Collaboration and Its Influence on Space
Exploration"

by
Mike Wright
Marshall Space Flight Center Historian

Note: The following paper was presented by the author in 1993 at
the Southern Humanities Conference entitled "Inner Space/Outer
Space: Humanities, Technology and the Postmodern World." It was
later included in "Selected Papers from the 1993 Southern
Humanities Conference," published by Southern Humanities Press
in Huntsville and edited by Daniel Schenker, Craig Hanks, and
Susan Kray.

The years after World War II left the American public with an
almost insatiable desire for space-related science fiction. In
countless movies and stories space warriors suited with fish
bowl helmets focused their ray guns on creatures from outer
space. According to space historian Walter McDougall, "After
V-2s and atomic bombs, any fantasy seemed credible." Perhaps
more important, he says, the public's post-war devotion to
science fiction was a "form of cultural anticipation" regarding
the coming space age. [1]

Jules Verne's science fiction had inspired Wernher von Braun
when he was young. Years later, von Braun designed the famous
World War II V-2 rocket for his native Germany, but he also
dreamed of developing vehicles that would propel artificial
satellites and men into outer space. In fact, his interest in
developing rockets for space exploration, rather than for
defense, angered the Gestapo and led to two weeks in a German
prison.[2] As World War II ended, von Braun and other German
rocket experts surrendered to Allied forces and eventually
emigrated from Germany to work for the U.S. Army. Initially
assigned to Fort Bliss, Texas, the von Braun team was eventually
transferred to Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville, Alabama. On
January 31, 1958, the von Braun team used a modified Jupiter C
rocket to launch Explorer 1, America's first orbiting satellite.
Two years later, von Braun became director of NASA's new George
C. Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville where he and an
expanded team would develop the Saturn rockets that launched men
to the moon in 1969.

As the 1960s ended, von Braun had realized his dream of
exploring outer space by helping place a human on the moon and
satellite probes to the planets. His engineering and managerial
expertise contributed to a technological revolution but his
respect for the power of imagination had changed the way America
perceived space exploration much earlier in the 1950s. He
believed that America's devotion to space fiction in the early
1950s could be channeled into interest in space fact. "It was a
matter of synthesizing the philosophical aspects into neat
packages and solid statements which the public would buy,"
according to Erik Bergaust, von Braun's biographer.[3]

In the early 1950s, Collier's magazine invited von Braun to
publish his vision regarding space exploration. Space historian
Randy Liebermann has explained the significance of the Collier's
articles: "After 25 years of continuous and directed thinking
and endless hours of experimentation, von Braun, the world's
leading rocket engineer, had the chance to come out of his
sequestered military environment and through a national magazine
inform the general public of his detailed blueprint for
realizing manned space travel."[4]

The articles, illustrated by leading space artists, seemed to
accomplish more than any other seriously respected cultural or
artistic medium had done in the early 1950s to suggest that the
future of space exploration would emerge indebted to both
science fiction and science fact. At its highest point,
Collier's attained a circulation of approximately 4 million and
these readers were excited by von Braun's vision of the future.
Even so, there were already more than 15 million television sets
in America by 1952 and von Braun recognized that this change in
American culture had the potential to fundamentally reshape
American past perceptions.[5] So did Walter Elias Disney who had
used film as a powerful medium to entertain and inform Americans
since the 1940s. "Neither Walt Disney nor Dr. von Braun were
ever backward in making maximum use of new media for advancing
their ideas: Now was the age of television," said one
observer.[6]

Von Braun served as technical advisor on three space-related
television films that Disney produced in the 1950s. Together,
von Braun (the engineer) and Disney (the artist) used the new
medium of television to illustrate how high man might fly on the
strength of technology and the spirit of human imagination.
According to David R. Smith, Director of Archives at Walt Disney
Productions, von Braun caught the attention of Disney senior
producer Ward Kimball. [7] The Collier's series had appeared
about the time that Disney decided to use television to promote
Disneyland in California. The theme park would include four
major sections: Fantasyland, Frontierland, Adventureland and
Tomorrowland. Disney producers would incorporate ideas from
Disney fantasy films like Snow White, Pinocchio, and others to
promote the first area of the park. The second and third areas
would be built around Davy Crockett and other adventure films.
Tomorrowland, however, represented a real challenge. In
response, Kimball contacted von Braun who, according to Smith,
"pounced on the opportunity."[8] As a technical consultant for
Disney, von Braun would join Heinz Haber, a specialist in the
emerging field of space. medicine, and Willy Ley, a famous
rocket historian.[9] All three space experts had authored the
Collier's series. Disney personally introduced the first
television show, "Man in Space," which aired on ABC on March 9,
1955. The objective, he said, was to combine "the tools of our
trade with the knowledge of the scientists to give a factual
picture of the latest plans for man's newest adventure." He
later called the show "science factual." The show represented
something new in its approach to science. But it also relied on
Disney's trademark animation techniques. [10]

For example, a portion of the show was devoted to explaining
basic scientific principles using an animated bust of Sir Isaac
Newton. In one scene, an animated puppy sneezes and moves
backward across a sheet of graph paper to illustrate that for
every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Disney
also filled "Man in Space" with stereo-typical images of
learning and science. For example, Disney appears on camera
against a bookcase backdrop and introduces producer Ward Kimball
complete with a sketch pencil behind his ear. In turn, Kimball
introduces the German scientists whose accents add more style to
the show. Kimball then offers viewers the privilege to go behind
the scenes to see the scientists conferring with the Disney
artists. Chalk-talk technical explanations soon break into
humorous animation. Haber begins explaining weightlessness in
space. His points are illustrated by a cigar puffing, slightly
clad animated character called "homo sapiens extra
terrestrialis," whose movements are set against a graph-like
grid. Although the Disney producers employed humor and cartoon
animation in the first part of "Man in Space," von Braun's
on-camera segment was much more straightforward. "If we were to
start today on an organized, well supported space program, I
believe a practical passenger rocket could be built and tested
within ten years," von Braun said. "Now here is my design for a
four-stage orbital rocket ship... First we would design and
build the fourth stage and then tow it into the air to test it
as glider... This is the section that must ultimately return the
men to the earth safely."[11]

If Disney had chosen to close "Man in Space" after von Braun's
brief lecture on the mechanical relationships between the weight
of the four-stage rocket and the fuel and power requirements for
each stage, he would not have achieved his previously stated
objective. Instead, the Disney artists used the tools of their
trade to create a dramatic animation sequence illustrating von
Braun's futuristic ideas for a four-stage rocket. The scene
takes place at a launch site on a "small atoll of coral islands
in the Pacific where man is dedicated to just one cause--the
conquest of space." Against a dark blue pre-dawn sky, search
lights bathe the waiting launch vehicle while sirens sound a
warning, and square-jawed technicians study their consoles. "Now
man will bet his life against the unknown dangers of space
travel," a narrator reports. [12]

In reality, von Braun's on-camera appearance in "Man in Space"
and the other two films represented only a portion of his
involvement in the actual production of the three shows. Dr.
Ernst Stuhlinger, who had worked with von Braun since his days
in Germany, also worked for Disney as a technical consultant.
According to Stuhlinger, von Braun made sure the Disney artists
built accurate models of the space vehicles for the three shows.
"Here von Braun was really on home grounds.... He provided a
wealth of information on technical details, from in-orbit
fueling operations down to problems of cooking and eating under
weightlessness," Stuhlinger said. He also recalled the many
hours that von Braun devoted to the Disney projects. Von Braun's
official duties for the Army often took him to the West Coast to
meet with Jupiter and Redstone contractors. After the meetings,
he and Stuhlinger would go to the Disney studios where they
would work into the morning hours with the artists and
producers.[13]

The second show in the series also aired in 1955 and was called
"Man and the Moon." It began with an animated sequence devoted
to legends and superstitions regarding the moon, among them the
idea that the left hind-foot of a rabbit found in a graveyard
during the dark of the moon will bring good luck.<14 As one
reviewer wrote in the New York Times following the show which
aired on December 28, "this is the kind of material that Walt
Disney's technicians can devise their brightest graphic effects
and they made the most of it." [15]

An educational brochure published to promote "Man and the Moon,"
said, "This film presents a realistic and believable trip to the
moon in a rocket ship - not in some far-off fantastic
never-never land, but in the near foreseeable future."[16] Von
Braun, complete with a slide rule in his pocket, narrates a
section of the film and describes his ideas for a two-phase trip
to the moon. The first part of the effort would require building
a space station. This base would serve as the staging area for
the second part of the trip to the moon. "Our space satellite
(station) will have the shape of a wheel measuring 250 feet
across. This outside rim will contain living and working
quarters for a crew of 50 men," von Braun said. "Just below the
radio and radar antenna is an atomic reactor. Its heat will be
used to drive a turbo generator which supplies the station with
electricity."[17]

Disney archivist David Smith noted that von Braun invented a
special space suit for "Man and the Moon" and nicknamed it the
"bottle suit." [18] According to Stuhlinger, the suit resembled
a miniature space vehicle with its own atmosphere and rocket
propulsion system along with manipulator arms to accomplish
assembly work in orbit.[19] Just as he had done in "Man in
Space," Disney decided to illustrate von Braun's technical
concepts. For the second show, however, Disney decided to use
live actors who portray an astronaut crew departing from the
space station for their journey around the moon. The drama
intensifies when a meteor strikes the ship, and one astronaut
dons a bottle suit to make the repairs. [20]

The final show in the series aired on December 4, 1957, and was
entitled "Mars and Beyond." E.C. Slipher, an astronomer from the
Lowell Observatory in Arizona, joined von Braun and Stuhlinger
as technical consultants on the film. All three appeared on
camera. The show also included colorful animated accounts of the
legend and lore related to Mars. The narrator introduced the
segment featuring von Braun and Stuhlinger by saying, "at the
present time an atomic-powered space ship has been suggested by
a leading scientist in the rocket and guided missile field, Dr.
Ernst Stuhlinger... This atomic electric space ship features a
revolutionary new principle that will make possible the long
trip to Mars with only a small expenditure of fuel."[21] Again
the Disney artists employ dramatic animation to convey
Stuhlinger's and von Braun's technical explanations regarding
the 13-month journey to the Red Planet.[22]

An estimated 42 million people saw the first show in the Disney
"science factual" series. [23] Contemporary television critics
responded favorably to all three shows, and they recognized the
contributions that von Braun and the other technical advisors
made. "Into it went the thinking of the best scientific minds
working on space projects today, making the picture more fact
than fantasy," one reviewer said after seeing "Mars and
Beyond."[24] Disney producer Ward Kimball realized all three
shows were headed for success after the first one aired on March
9, 1955. On July 29, 1955, President Eisenhower announced that
the U.S. would launch a small unmanned earth-circling satellite
as part of the U.S. participation in the International
Geophysical Year which would be held from July 1957 through
December 1958. [25] On August 24, Kimball wrote a letter to von
Braun saying that in order to promote plans for the next show in
the series, the Disney studios planned to "ballyhoo" the first
show as an item that contributed to Eisenhower's satellite
announcement. [26] In an August 30 letter back to Kimball, von
Braun reacted with astonishment. "For God's sake don't put it
that this show triggered the presidential announcement."[27]
Kimball agreed and replied with a letter of apology.[28] Von
Braun feared that Kimball's idea might be embarrassing and upset
serious discussions regarding America's future role in space.

In an article published in 1978, David R. Smith, the Disney
archivist, reprinted the correspondence between Kimball and von
Braun.[29] He also published an account from Kimball which
stated that on the morning after "Man in Space" aired,
Eisenhower called Disney to compliment him on the show and to
request a copy that could be shown to top space-related
officials in the Pentagon.[30] Although it is difficult to
verify Kimball's account, the story has gained increased
attention in recent years. For example, one historian has
recently used it to illustrate that, contrary to other
viewpoints, Eisenhower was not "hostile to the idea of space
exploration or to science in general."[31]

Eisenhower's personal response to the first Disney film is open
to debate. However, "Man in Space," apparently impressed one
high-level Soviet space official. This is indicated by a copy of
a September 24, 1955, letter from L. Sedov to F.C. Durant,
President of the International Astronautical Federation. "If the
Disney Studios supplies us with one copy of this film on
whatever terms it may put, it will make considerably for the
cause of promoting our contact."[32] Erik Bergaust, von Braun's
biographer, called Sedov the "front man for Russian space
delegations during the Sputnik era." Bergaust also claims to
have introduced von Braun to Sedov in 1958. [33]

Naturally, many leaders in the emerging American aerospace
industry endorsed the efforts that von Braun and Disney had made
to promote public interest in space exploration. In 1955, the
American Rocket Society held its largest-ever regional meeting
in Los Angeles. As part of the entertainment for the meeting,
more than 600 persons were invited to tour Disneyland and
participate in a special screening of "Man in Space."[34]

As indicated by von Braun's response to Kimball's plan to relate
the Eisenhower satellite announcement to the first Disney space
show, von Braun wanted to avoid any indication "that I myself
through the vehicle of the Disney Studio am trying to get credit
for more than I deserve." [35] Biographer Erik Bergaust has
written that von Braun understood the perils of going to the
public for support of the space program: "During the fifties,
many people thought of von Braun as some sort of science fiction
hero who for the most part was dreaming of big space conquests
and who spent most of his time on Walt Disney television
shows... Some high priests of science were, of course, snobbish
enough to frown on all this loud glamour."[36] Another author
has written that the Walt Disney documentaries and the Collier's
articles made von Braun a "space nut" or a "space hero." [37] In
1958, one von Braun supporter lamented "the discouraging
spectacle of hard headed and reputable scientists calling the
latest proposal of Dr. Wernher von Braun to send a man 150 miles
into space a 'circus stunt.'"[38] Ernst Stuhlinger acknowledges
that von Braun was aware of being criticized for promoting space
outside of previously established circles. But he adds that von
Braun's desire to see man travel into space meant convincing
scientists, industry, politicians and, in particular, the
public. "He fought on all fronts each in its own language. That
was his genius," Stuhlinger said.[39]

In 1965, 10 years after "Man in Space" first aired, von Braun
invited Disney and others involved in the 1950s films to tour
the Marshall Space Flight Center.[40] Von Braun and his
employees clearly hoped that the reunion might rekindle Disney's
enthusiasm for space exploration. One Marshall official wrote,
"Out of this we would at least establish good will, and maybe
(if we play our cards right) we could get something going that
would be of tremendous benefit to MSFC, Apollo, NASA, and the
entire space effort." [41] Von Braun himself wrote that the
Disney tour "may easily result in a Disney picture about manned
space flight." [42] On April 13, 1965, Walt Disney, his brother
Roy, and other Disney executives visited the Marshall
Center.[43] In an interview with The Huntsville Times, Disney
said, "If I can help through my TV shows... to wake people up to
the fact that we've got to keep exploring, I'll do it."[44] In
reality, the tour at Marshall and other NASA sites did not
inspire

Disney to use the 1950s television series as a model for a new
film about space exploration. No doubt, Wernher von Braun was
well qualified to imagine what the show and the future American
space program might have looked like if Disney had chosen to do
so.


Notes

  1.  Walter A. McDougall, ...the Heavens and the Earth: A
      Political History of the Space Age (New York: Basic Books,
      1985) p. 100.

  2.  Wernher von Braun and Frederick I. Ordway III, History of
      Rocketry and Space Travel 3d revised ed. (New York: Thomas
      Y. Crowell Company, 1975) p. 108.

  3.  Erik Bergaust, Wernher von Braun (Washington, D. C.:
      National Space Institute, 1976) p. 161.

  4.  Randy Liebermann, "Wernher von Braun and Collier's
      Magazine's Man in Space Series," 37th Congress of the
      International Astronautical Federation, Innsbruck, Austria,
      October 4-11, 1986.

  5.  The Encyclopedia Americana, 1990 ed. s.v. Collier's", s.v.
      "Television."

  6.  Adrian Perkins, "The 1950's, A Pivotal Decade,"
      Spaceflight, July/August 1983, p. 323.

  7.  David R. Smith, "They're Following Our Script: Walt
      Disney's Trip to Tomorrowland," Future, May 1978, p. 55.
      Mr. Smith's article represents the best overall account of
      the three Disney space-related films. Randy Liebermann also
      presents an excellent account of the films in an essay
      entitled "The Collier's and Disney Series" in Frederick I.
      Ordway III and Randy Liebermann eds. Blueprint for Space:
      Science Fiction to Science Fact (Washington and London:
      Smithsonian Institution Press, 1992) pp. 135-146.

  8.  Ibid.

  9.  Ibid.

10.  The author is grateful to the Walt Disney Company for the
      opportunity to borrow copies of all three Walt Disney films
      mentioned in this paper. The material cited in this section
      of the paper is from the film "Man in Space." Some of the
      material cited in latter portions of the paper is from the
      film "Man and the Moon," and from the film "Mars and
      Beyond."

11.  "Man in Space."

12.  Ibid.

13.  Ernst Stuhlinger, oral history interview by Mike Wright,
      December 17, 1992, Huntsville, Alabama.

14.  "Man and the Moon."

15.  J.P. Shanley, New York Times, December 29, 1955, p. 41.

16.  The material cited here is from a brochure describing the
      Disney film, "Man and the Moon." The text was prepared by
      the Division of Audio-Visual Education, Los Angeles County
      Schools.

17.  This is from the film, "Man and the Moon.'

18.  Smith, p. 60.

19.  Stuhlinger Interview.

20.  "Man and the Moon"

21.  Ibid.

22.  Ibid.

23.  Willy Ley, Rockets, Missiles, and Space Travel (New York,
      The Viking Press, 1961), p. 331.

24.  TV Guide, March 5,1955, p.9

25.  Eugene M. Emme, ed., Aeronautics and Astronautics: An American
      Chronology of Science and Technology in the Exploration of
      Space, 1915-1960 (Washington, 1961), p.78.

26.  Letter from Ward Kimball to Wernher von Braun, August 25,
      1955, reprinted by Smith, p. 59.

27   Letter from Wernher von Braun to Ward Kimball, August 30,
      1955, reprinted by Smith, p. 59.

28.  Letter from Ward Kimball to Wernher von Braun, September 1,
      1955, reprinted by Smith, p. 59.

29.  Smith, p. 59.

30.  Ibid.

31.  Rip Bulkeley, The Sputniks Crisis and Early United States
      Space Policy, A Critique of the Historiography of Space
      (Indiana University Press, 1990), p. 128. It should be
      noted that the Office of the Historian at the Pentagon as
      well as the archivists at the Eisenhower Library were
      unable to locate documentation supporting Eisenhower's
      interest in the Disney films.

32.  Letter from L. Sedov to F.C. Durant, 24 September 1955.

33.  Bergaust, p. 488.

34.  John W. Herrick, "Los Angeles Meeting Attended by Over
      500," Jet Propulsion, Journal of the American Rocket
      Society, March 1955, pp. 652-654.

35.  Letter from von Braun to Kimball, August 30, 1955.

36.  Bergaust, p. 488.

37.  "The World Pays Tribute to Wernher von Braun," The National
      Space Institute. There is no date on this pamphlet. It was
      prepared following von Braun's death.

38.  I.M. Levitt, "Is von Braun's Plan a 'Circus Stunt'?" Army
      Navy Air Force Register, May 10, 1958.

39.  Stuhlinger Interview.

40.  Letter from Wernher von Braun to William Bosche, January 8,
      1965. Mr. Bosche represented one of von Braun's key
      contacts during his involvement in the three Disney films.

41.  Note from Frank Williams to Bart Slattery, November 13,
      1964. Mr. Williams was Director of Marshall's Future
      Projects Office and a close associate of von Braun . Mr.
      Slattery was Director of the Public Affairs Office at the
      Marshall Space Flight Center.

42.  Note from Wernher von Braun to Bart Slattery. This is a
      handwritten note initiated by von Braun and sent to "Bart."
      It is dated "3/6," probably March 6, 1965.


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   Mar > Mar 16

                             AAS - Life on Mars?

From: Steven L. Wilson, Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:03:44 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:25:23 -0500
Subject: AAS - Life on Mars?

Source: The Australian Academy of Science

http://www.science.org.au/nova/019/019key.htm


Life on Mars?

----------------------------------------------------------------

The Mars Pathfinder spacecraft landed on Mars on 4 July 1997.
Pathfinder will initiate an exciting era of exploration of the
surface of Mars and is likely to re-kindle the debate about the
existence of Martian life.

----------------------------------------------------------------

In August 1996, scientists from the National Aeronautics and
Space Administration (NASA) announced they had detected possible
signs of life on Mars. But how convincing is the evidence?


Where was the evidence found?

The evidence didn't arrive in the form of a little green man or
even a little green bug. It was a rock. Not much bigger than a
potato and given the dry name of ALH84001, this rock was
discovered in Antarctica in 1984. It stands out as a rock among
rocks because it is a meteorite and it came from Mars (Box 1).
How do we know it's from Mars? There is almost no dispute among
scientists that ALH84001 originated on Mars. It has a chemical
'fingerprint' that matches samples taken by the Viking probes
which landed on the so-called red planet in 1976. But it was no
easy trip for the meteorite to get here. Sixteen million years
ago, an asteroid struck Mars with such force that pieces of rock
from the Martian surface spewed out into space. ALH84001 spent
most of these years flying around the solar system before
crashing to Earth about 13,000 years ago.


What evidence of life does it contain?

NASA scientists noticed several intriguing things about ALH84001
which they think indicate that life may once have existed on
Mars.


The blobs

The first of these were tiny blobs, the size of fullstops.
Called carbonate rosettes, they have cores rich in manganese
surrounded by a layer of iron carbonate which in turn is
surrounded by an iron sulphide rind. Bacteria in ponds on Earth
produce similar rosettes as they metabolise minerals.


Life on Mars... PAH!

In addition, chemical compounds known as polycyclic aromatic
hydrocarbons (PAHs) were found in and around the carbonate
rosettes. ALH84001 contains an unusual mixture of certain
lightweight PAHs. The NASA scientists concluded that these might
have been produced as once-living organisms decomposed.


Teardrops and crystals

Another piece of evidence centred on the discovery of tiny,
teardrop-shaped crystals of magnetite and iron sulphide embedded
in places where the carbonate rosettes had dissolved. The
scientists noted that some bacteria on Earth also manufacture
similar crystals.


Fossils, or geological scribbles?

The fourth and final piece of evidence was perhaps the most
controversial. Using an electron microscope, the NASA scientists
found elongated and egg-shaped structures within the carbonate
rosettes which they interpreted to be tiny fossils of Martian
bacteria.


If not life on Mars, then what?

Mars, which once may have had a climate similar to Earth's, has
long been the subject of earthly speculation about life on other
planets. Nevertheless, most scientists not directly involved in
the study of ALH84001 were sceptical when the results were
announced amidst worldwide excitement. The scepticism has
increased as further tests on ALH84001 have been carried out.
There are several plausible explanations for the phenomena
described above that don't require the presence of life. For
example, natural geological processes alone could have caused
all the observed 'evidence'. On the other hand, the NASA
scientists say that the discovery of all four phenomena on the
same small rock must be more than a simple geological
coincidence.

Another possibility is contamination. Some other meteorites have
been shown to be contaminated by earthly chemicals and
organisms. The NASA scientists argue that most of the carbonates
contained isotopes associated with Mars and that PAHs were more
concentrated inside the rock than on its surface. Others have
concluded that the meteorite picked up the PAHs (which are
common everywhere on Earth) as it sat in the ice for 13,000
years.


Keep on looking

The debate continues between scientists who think the evidence
for life on Mars is convincing and those who don't. At the
moment, the doubters seem to be holding sway: as some scientists
have noted, the possibility of life on Mars is so extraordinary
that extraordinary evidence is required for it to be accepted as
fact. Perhaps the only way to be sure is to visit Mars again.
NASA space probes are already on the way to Mars to carry out
further tests, and more such probes are planned (Box 2). There
is even talk of sending people there.

Australian scientists have a range of expertise that can help in
the search for evidence of life on Mars. Dr Malcolm Walter,
Adjunct Professor of Geology at Macquarie University, is
advising NASA on the best landing sites for probes searching for
evidence of life (or former life).

'Hot springs are a great place to live if you're a bacterium,'
says Professor Walters. 'So what we should be doing on Mars is
focusing on former hot springs.' (Box 3.)

The thought of finding bacteria in Martian hot springs may not
immediately excite the imaginations of Hollywood movie
producers. But the discovery of life elsewhere in the universe -
in any form - could have a profound effect on the way we
perceive ourselves. Are we alone, or does the universe teem with
life? (Box 4).



Comments on Pathfinder's chemical analyses (7 August 1997)

http://www.science.org.au/nova/019/taylor.htm


Boxes

  1. Mars: Earth's cool cousin

     http://www.science.org.au/nova/019/019box01.htm


  2. Probing the space frontier

     http://www.science.org.au/nova/019/019box02.htm


  3. Cyanobacteria: the simple things of life

     http://www.science.org.au/nova/019/019box03.htm


  4. ET, can you speak up?

     http://www.science.org.au/nova/019/019box04.htm

CREDITS

     http://www.science.org.au/nova/019/019cred.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------

An Australian Academy of Science project, supported by the
Science and Technology Awareness Program of the Commonwealth
Department of Industry, Science and Resources and the Australian
Foundation for Science. This topic is sponsored by the Kanagawa
Prefectural Museum of Natural History

----------------------------------------------------------------


� Australian Academy of Science | Email: aas@science.org.au







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   Mar > Mar 16

                     Reports Critical of NASA's Approach

From: Steven L. Wilson, Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:17:55 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:37:51 -0500
Subject: Reports Critical of NASA's Approach


Source: AOL News

Reports Critical of NASA's Approach

.c The Associated Press

  By MATTHEW FORDAHL

LOS ANGELES (AP) - NASA's space exploration program is trying to
do too much with too little money and not understanding the
risks that could lead to embarrassments like last year's failed
Mars missions, according to two panels of experts.

The reports released Monday did not suggest the agency abandon
its mantra of "faster, cheaper, better" missions, but instead
urged officials to focus less on quickness and cost and more on
quality and reliability.

"The success of `faster, better, cheaper' is tempered by the
fact that some projects and programs have put too much emphasis
on cost and schedule reduction," said one panel led by Arthur
Stephenson, director of the Marshall Space Flight Center.

"We need to slow down some, not rush too quickly into important
programs and projects, plan and implement them more carefully,"
said Tony Spear, who led the other review and is a former
manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

Last year was especially difficult for NASA: In addition to
losing two Mars probes, space shuttle flights were delayed, the
Hubble Space Telescope temporarily shut down and other missions
either missed their targets or failed at launch.

NASA Administrator Daniel Goldin ordered reviews, including
Spear's analysis of "faster, better, cheaper" and the report on
NASA management by the Mars Climate Orbiter failure board, which
Stephenson led. Last week, another panel made 81 recommendations
on space shuttle management, safety and technical issues.

"We knew this change would not be easy," Goldin said. "We knew
we would have problems."

JPL, which operated both the $125 million Mars Climate Orbiter
and $165 million Mars Polar Lander, said the failed missions
serve as a wake-up call.

"The lessons learned, findings and recommendations seem to be on
target, and we intend to take them seriously and do what we can
to make the necessary improvements here at JPL," said Larry
Dumas, the lab's deputy director.

A common theme runs through both reports: "Faster, better,
cheaper" missions place too much emphasis on cost and schedule
reduction and too little on management, oversight, leadership
and evaluating risk.

The Climate Orbiter, for instance, was lost when a contractor
failed to convert measurements into metric units. The $125
million probe flew too close to Mars on Sept. 23 and is believed
to have burned up in the atmosphere.

The mistake itself was not as serious as the failure to catch
it, the review board said. Its first report, issued in November,
attempted to remedy the failures before Mars Polar Lander
arrived.

But the $165 million spacecraft was last heard from on Dec. 3,
just as it was beginning its descent to the surface.

"It's Management 101. They're basically saying there are four
things you have to balance: cost, schedule, content and risk,"
said John Pike, an analyst for the Federation of American
Scientists. "But they don't say very much about how to balance
those."

Specifically, the reports do not detail the funding deficiencies
and staff shortages that contributed to the problems, he said.

The space agency will decide what specific actions to take by
midsummer, said W. Brian Keegan, NASA's chief engineer. Another
report, on the loss of the Polar Lander, is due by the end of
this month.

On the Net: NASA's Web site: http://www.nasa.gov

NASA's Mars Polar Lander site: http://marslander.jpl.nasa.gov

AP-NY-03-14-00 0549EST

  Copyright 2000 The Associated Press.  The information
  contained in the AP news report may not be published,
  broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior
  written authority of The Associated Press.








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   Mar > Mar 16

                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:37:07 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:43:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:36:40 -0700
 >From: Kathy Hotchner <khotchner@uswest.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:23:08 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:05:37 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Hello Robert, Don, Larry, and list,

 >Here is what seems to be the real truth and the confusion over
 >the Phoenix lights.  Two events happened on March 13, a real
 >sighting that to date remains unidentified, and the flares.  At
 >8:30 pm a huge unidentified flying object was seen by many
 >residents flying silently, and very low, over the metropolitan
 >area.  It was seen by many people, adults and kids, family
 >groups, teens "making out" at a lovers point on South Mountain.
 >All described it as a huge triangle with 5 lights.

 >There is one known video tape taken of this UFO.  People say
 >they saw it pass directly over their heads, their homes, maybe
 >30 feet above them. During this sighting a mufon member, using
 >binoculars, believes he saw military jets flying near and around
 >this slow moving object.

No confusion in my mind.

 >Then later that night, at 10:00 pm, there was the second
 >sighting, which has been now called the Phoenix Lights.  These
 >are now believed by most to have truly been flares.  This is the
 >film of the lights that so many of you have seen on television.
 >The explanation for this event is that a military plane had to
 >unload it's flares before it was allowed to land at the air
 >base. The base and the military have records to confirm this
 >forced "dumping."

Where is/was the "documentation" for this latest AF tale/story?

Did somebody FOIA request some documents?

 From a personal point of view, unless an airplane is in trouble,
they generally don't "dump" flares or other so called externally
attached items i.e. bombs, rockets, or whatever. They bring them
home.

During the Gulf War, it is recorded in the histories that if the
planes could not dump their ordinance for whatever the reason,
they brought it home.

Any ways, it kind of strikes me as Roswellesque, you know:

1st tale... its a weather balloon

2nd tale... its a top secret mogel balloon

3rd tale... the witnesses were mixing up various events that
happened around Roswell including dummy drops etc etc.


Now, cut to Phoenix:

1st tale... the A-10s were dropping flares on the Barry
Goldwater range as part previously scheduled  exercises.

2nd tale... Well the A-10s "had" to dump the flares before they
could land.

3rd tale... Anybodys guess

Cheers,

Robert








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   Mar > Mar 16

                     Re: Hoagland on Art Bell - 3-15-00

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:00:49 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:50:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Hoagland on Art Bell - 3-15-00


 >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:05:38 -0500
 >From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
 >Subject: Hoagland on Art Bell - 3-15-00
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >I'm sure some will flame me, but if there was ever _any_ doubt
 >that Richard 'Cydonia' Hoagland is completely out of his mind,
 >please just listen to the few hours he just did on tonight's Art
 >Bell.

 >Don't take my word for it, go to http://www.artbell.com &
 >look for the RealAudio for Wed, 3/15/00, ~1:30am - 4:00am

 >I think the guy could find a "pattern" (and, of course, a
 >_conspiratorial_ pattern at that) in a pile of cow dung.

 >(Oh, wait, cow dung probably does have a pattern in it...
 >  well, you know whatImean.)

 >If nothing else, the guy is making proclamation after
 >proclamation about what Brian DePalma was _really_ saying in his
 >movie... all without, of course, having had to first _ask_ Mr.
 >DePalma (who is allegedly in-communicado) or confirming it with
 >him.

 >He's also finding all kinds of hidden & secret messages in
 >NASA's Dan Goldin's comments about the future of the space
 >program, his desire to put humans on Mars, his desire to have a
 >photo of an extrasolar planet, etc.

 >Sheesh...

 >Sorry, Ijust had to rant.

 >"We now return you to your regularly scheduled program."

We interrupt your regularly scheduled program to bring you this
message:

Hi Ron,

Certainly no flames from this neck of the woods.

Hoagland had his say, he was proved wrong.

The Face on Mars is a very good example of how a belief system
can be stronger than hard facts.

I would rather go with the facts thank you very much.

But by the time NASA managed to get another craft to image the
region (again) the belief had already gained a good foothold. I
have read stories of NASA detonating a nuke 1500 feet above the
surface of Cydonia to aliens being asked to destroy the evidence
with 'ray guns'. Grasping at straws or what!

Dave.

You will now be returned you to your regularly scheduled
program.










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   Mar > Mar 16

                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:33:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:38:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:50:51 -0300
 >From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

Hello, all, Don, Kathy

 >>Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:36:40 -0700
 >>From: Kathy Hotchner <khotchner@uswest.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Hello Robert, Don, Larry, and list,

 >>Here is what seems to be the real truth and the confusion over
 >>the Phoenix lights. Two events happened on March 13, a real
 >>sighting that to date remains unidentified, and the flares. At
 >>8:30 pm a huge unidentified flying object was seen by many
 >>residents flying silently, and very low, over the metropolitan
 >>area. It was seen by many people, adults and kids, family
 >>groups, teens "making out" at a lovers point on South Mountain.
 >>All described it as a huge triangle with 5 lights.

South Mountain is a little hogback ridge (with lots and lots of
Antennae) that is immediately south of Sky Harbor - the Phoenix
Airport. Oh, less than 5 to 7 miles, as I recall, at least its
in the PHX control zone. so the flares were farther South &
West. Hmmm?

 >>Belief here, with many, is that the air force dumped the flares
 >>to distract and confuse the public off the real event that
 >>happened at 8:30.

Well, as I recall, and according to some news accounts, the
flares were dropped over the Barry Goldwater Range-South-west at
its closest point (including Luke AFB) about 50 or so miles. Of
course, there is other government land: BLM, BIA or USFS (yes
there are passable forests in the area) so, the flares coud've
been dropped reasonably close to Phoenix - 50 miles - given the
altitude of the Jets, which we don't know.

One other thing. Having been witness to several attillery
exercises at Yakima Firing Center in Washington State - flares
drop unevenly.

I too hope to clarify things. The flare incident was later and
real. However the earlier incidents were also real - but not
flares.


I hope I've been of help.

GT McCoy








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   Mar > Mar 16

               Re: Ohio Man Reports 'Flying Saucers', Leaps To

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:03:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:09:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Ohio Man Reports 'Flying Saucers', Leaps To


 >Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:36:16 -0500
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >Subject: Ohio Man Reports 'Flying Saucers,' Leaps To Death
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Published Tuesday, March 14, 2000
 >  in the Akron Beacon Journal.

 >Fall kills hospital patient in Canton
 >39-year-old man plunges seven floors from window

 >BY JOHN HIGGINS
 >and Andale Gross

 >Beacon Journal staff writers

 >CANTON: A 39-year-old Guernsey County patient at Mercy Medical
 >Center somehow got through the open window of his ninth-floor
 >room yesterday morning and plunged seven stories to an adjacent
 >roof.

 >The man, from Kimbolton, was declared dead at the scene. Canton
 >police found a bag of his clothing next to his body. He was
 >wearing his hospital gown.

 >Stark County coroner's investigator William Dishong said there
 >was no evidence of a struggle or foul play. However, police are
 >investigating to determine if it was a suicide or criminal act.

 >Relatives said they were planning to bring the man home from the
 >hospital yesterday when they learned of the accident, which
 >happened about 8:30 a.m.

 >A cousin, William Robert Juergens, said hospital officials told
 >him the man was "seeing flying saucers" and was agitated the
 >night before.

<snip>

An interesting side note to this sad article.  This appeared in
the Detroit Free Press on 03-15-2000 and I find the mention of
"electromagnetism" a prominent aspect of the UFO phenomena.

Detroit Free Press
News About Suicides

Electricity Link Suspected

Researchers at the University of North Carolina said they have
uncovered a high rate of suicide among electric utility workers
and suggested it may be linked to exposure to electromagnetic
fields.

Researchers said they looked at the rate of suicide among more
than 5,000 electrical workers and an equal number of other men
and found that the number of suicides were twice as high among
electrical workers.

The study, published in today's Journal of Occupational and
Environmental Medicine, suggested that electromagnetic fields
may decrease levels of melatonin, causing depression.

Melatonin is linked to a variety of functions in the body
including sleep, hunger, sexual desire, and mood.

Younger workers who had the highest exposure rates, particularly
in the year before they died, also had the highest rate of
suicide, suggesting that younger workers may be more vulnerable
to the effects of exposure.

End of Article

This would seem to open up an area for abduction researchers to
study. My questions would be.  What are the correlations of
Melatonin levels in abductees as compared to non-abductees? This
would fall in line with some of the PAS (Post Abduction
Syndrome) studies currently underway.  What are the suicide
rates for abductees compared to non-abductees, especially in the
cases where electromagnetic anomalies were reported and/or
physical trace evidence was evident within their experiences?
What were the "normal" electromagnetic exposure levels of the
abductees which are not related to their abduction experience or
UFO encounter?  These questions, and I'm sure there are many
more, may provide the basis for an avenue of scientific research
that may enlighten us and our understanding of the abduction
phenomena.

Todd Lemire
http://members.home.net/tlemire/UFOCENTRAL.html
--
An expert may be defined as someone who can make you feel stupid
for offering your opinion.  Fortunately, as physicist Philip
Morrison once said, ufology "is a field in which there aren't any
experts.








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   Mar > Mar 16

                  Rumors Link Meteor Sighting & Brush Fire

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:20:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:11:10 -0500
Subject: Rumors Link Meteor Sighting & Brush Fire


An update on the Arkansas Crash as reported by Kenny Young
previously can be found at the link below.

http://www.ardemgaz.com/today/ark/B1xmystery16.html

Todd Lemire
http://members.home.net/tlemire/UFOCENTRAL.html
--
An expert may be defined as someone who can make you feel stupid
for offering your opinion.  Fortunately, as physicist Philip
Morrison once said, ufology "is a field in which there aren't any
experts.







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   Mar > Mar 16

                        Re: The UFO/Disney Connection

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:35:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:19:30 -0500
Subject: Re: The UFO/Disney Connection


 >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:23:00 -0500
 >From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net
 >Subject: The NASA/Disney Connection
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Source: Marshall Space Flight Centre History Office>>

 >http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/sf/disney.html

 >[Originally,

 >From: earth_2012 <earth@somtel.com>
 >To: davidicke <davidicke2000@egroups.com>
 >Subject: DavidIcke2000 The Nasa/Disney Connection Since 1950
 >Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:54:07 -0500

 >From: Rich Hansen <siwahoasis@hotmail.com>

 >From: Brian Zinkle <bzinkle@mwt.net>]

 >To: M-TRAC - MSAA List <cydonia@admin.listbox.com>

-----

 >EXCERPTS:

 >Von Braun served as technical advisor on three space-related
 >television films that Disney produced in the 1950s. Together,
 >von Braun (the engineer) and Disney (the artist) used the new
 >medium of television to illustrate how high man might fly on the
 >strength of technology and the spirit of human imagination.>

****************************************************************

 >Disney personally introduced the first television show, 'Man in
 >Space', which aired on ABC on March 9, 1955.>

****************************************************************

 >"He provided a wealth of information on technical details, from
 >in-orbit fueling operations down to problems of cooking and
 >eating under weightlessness,"

****************************************************************

 >The second show in the series also aired in 1955 and was called
 >'Man and the Moon'>

****************************************************************

 >The final show in the series aired on December 4, 1957, and was
 >entitled 'Mars and Beyond'.

****************************************************************


 >"The Disney-Von Braun Collaboration and Its Influence on Space
 >Exploration">

 >by
 >Mike Wright
 >Marshall Space Flight Center Historian



And Now, (with apologies to Paul Harvey)
The Rest Of The Story!!!!  !!!!   !!!!


Seeing this history of Disney's involvement with NASA and von
Braun, and especially the mention of Ward Kimball brought back
memories of 20 years ago. Although many people heard, perhaps
few remember (or are around to say) what Ward Kimball told the
MUFON symposium in 1979 (I think; or 1978 if not 1979).

I met Kimball in 1980. I was at his house. I saw his tremendous
collection of model trains... that filled a litte building in
back of his house. Kimball was not satisfied with toy trains,
however, He also had a REAL TRAIN (engine and coal car) and
about 500 ft of track. He told me that back in the good old days
(fifties, sixties) when he had parties at his house in Beverly
Hills that he and Walt and the boys would get up a head of steam
in that old engine, shove into forward, and scream along the
track until the slammed on the brakes, stopping jus short of the
end of the track. Fun.

Probably a lot of people about the train. Probably not as many
knew about his collection of UFO books, magazines, etc. Yes, the
untold story: Ward Kimball, production director (?) of
Cinderella, promoter of the NASA-Disney connection, etc. Good
Old Ward was a UFO Buff!

You may wonder how I, a commoner, would happen to know Mr.
Kimball. Well, to make a log story short, when the Fund for UFO
Research was founded in 1979 we scoured the world... sort of...
for big names to be on the National Board of Directors. One of
our major supporters knew Ward and suggested that he might be
interested, so she arranged for me to meet him. That's how I got
to his house. That's how he became one of the original 10
members of the National Board of FUFOR. (Resigned many years
ago.)

But, this isn't the Rest Of The Story! Not by a long shot. The
rest of the story about the NASA-Disney connection was told by
Ward to the slavering MUFON masses in 1979 (or 78). Ward told us
about the Disney-DOD connection,. Yes, that DOD... Department of
Defense...  and the Disney-UFO connection... yes, that UFO!

Please allow me to recite as best I can what was the core of the
information provided by Ward Kimball over 20 years ago.

Sometime in the latter 50's (probably 57, 58) Walt Disney was
contacted by the Air Force and asked if he would be willing to
o a movie on... (gulp) UFOs! According to Kimball, the Air Force
promised to provide Disney with film footage he could use in
his documentary.

(History note: the first UFO documentary wasthe Green-Rouse
film, Unidentified Flying Objects, in 1955 or 56. There had been
many Science Fiction movies about aliens during the 1950s
and, of course, virtually everyone was familiar with the term and
many people had had sightings. [The NASA-Disney article by
Michael Wright mentioned the "load" of science fiction after
WWII, but says nothing about the UFO sightings.]

The official Air Force position was that there was nothing to
it, and this was echoed by the newsmedia. But everyone had heard
about the sightings over Washignton, DC and throughout the
country in 1952. And then there was Sputnik in the fall of 1957
and soon after the dog, Liaka, was orbiting the earth in a
Russian spacecraft. Everyone was looking up and thinking "far
out" (along with Elvis, Bill Haley and the Comets, etc.) The
article by Michael Wright, to which I am responding, discusses
three documentaries done for NASA by Disney. Hence, if the AF
were to decide to "spill the beans" and "come clean", Disney
wuld be a valuable aid in getting information across to the
general public.)

Kimball told us that Disney began the process of creating a
documentary about UFOs and aliens. Once again he turned his
animators loose to think creatively about what the aliens might
look like. At the same time he waited for the film. But then
after some period of time (half a year maybe?) the Air Force
said there would be no Air Force UFO film. Disney cancelled the
project, but by this time a lot of animated film of "creatures"
had been completed by his artists.

So Disney went ahead and made a short "documentary" anyway,
featuring Jonathan Winters impersonating various "characters"
associated with typical UFO lore. Kimaball SHOWED THIS MOVIE at
the MUFON Symposium. He may have said that it was the only time
the film had been shown publicly!

I specifically recall Mr. Winters as an old lady/grandmother who
saw a UFO and reported it... then he portrayed the Air Force
officer who investigated the sightings and offered
explainations. He also portrayed a little boy in a room who had
a telescope looking up at the stars and, to the little boy's
amazement, an alien came through thetelescope into his room (I
think I've got this right). Of course the boys father didn't
believe that story. (INcidently, Winters. too was interested in
UFO stuff!)

Well, folks, that the rest of the story as it won't appear in
the standard history... probably because standard historians
don't know anything about it. I wish I could remember more.
Kimball probably talked for half an hour before showing the
ten or fifteen minute movie. I don't know what may have
happened to the movie. After I visited Kimball at his house
I never saw nor heard from him again.






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   Mar > Mar 16

                         Re: Philip Going To Florida

From: Jim Suchocki <jsuchock@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:06:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:42:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Philip Going To Florida


 >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:15:37 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
 >Subject: Philip Going To Florida
 >To: undisclosed-recipients

 >---

 > From Philip Mantle

 >I just thought you might like to know that within the next few
 >weeks I will be visiting Florida with my wife and family for a
 >two week holiday.

 >I was therefore wondering if anyone out there would be
 >interested in a lecture.

 >I can present a three hour audio visual lecture based on my
 >involvement with UFO research in the UK over the last 20 years.

 >This would cover UFO investigations conducted by me, my research
 >into UK abductions, and of course my on-going research and
 >involvement into the alien autopsy film.

 >I am willing to travel within the Florida area to make such a
 >presentation which would be extensively illustrated with slides
 >and video's.

 >If you are interested, or know anyone that might be interested,
 >then please contact me as soon as possible direct at:

 >pmquest@dial.pipex.com


Philip,

I would be intersested in such a lecture. If there is anyone out
there that has or will be setting it up in florida, please let
me know. I too can travel somewhat within Florida, I live here.

Thanks and kindest regards,

Jim







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   Mar > Mar 17

                    The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 05:58:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 05:58:09 -0500
Subject: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!

Source: The Skywatch Mailing List Archive

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/media/mailing/archive/skywatch/msg10558.shtml


Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:38:20 PST
From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@hotmail.com>
Subject: [SD] The Phoenix Lights were NOT flares!


Dear Skywatchers,

Now that the National Guard in Arizona alerted the media that
Operation Snowbird would drop flares during the week of March
13th as they did in 1997 and several cameras were out to catch
the action, we can now eliminate the Operation Snowbird flare
scenario for the lights captured on video in 1997 - they do not
match the Snowbird flares!

I have been saying this all along and witnesses have asked the
Guard to repeat the exercise so they could see if it looked like
what they had witnessed in 1997. According to UFOLAWYER Peter
Gersten who saw the latest videos on television, they do not
match the witness sightings of March 13, 1997 or the videos
taken that night.

Our research team had come to this conclusion by May 1997 but it
took a repeat performance to convince others. And, so far, we
have not heard any reports of UFOs seen over Phoenix on March
13, 2000.

Sincerely,



Bill Hamilton
Executive Director
Skywatch International, Inc.
website: http//home.earthlink.net/~skywatcher22

---

****************************
SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL, INC.
(A Non-Profit Organization)

Skywatch International Inc. and this list service are not responsible
for content or authenticity of posts. Skywatch International, Inc.
endorses no political candidate for office due to the organization's
status as a non-profit corporation.

---

Please visit the Skywatch International Inc. website at:
http://www.skywatch-international.org









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   Mar > Mar 17

                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:49:23 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 06:35:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:33:16 -0800
 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:50:51 -0300
 >>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hello, all, Don, Kathy

 >>>Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:36:40 -0700
 >>>From: Kathy Hotchner <khotchner@uswest.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Hello Robert, Don, Larry, and list,

 >>>Here is what seems to be the real truth and the confusion over
 >>>the Phoenix lights. Two events happened on March 13, a real
 >>>sighting that to date remains unidentified, and the flares. At
 >>>8:30 pm a huge unidentified flying object was seen by many
 >>>residents flying silently, and very low, over the metropolitan
 >>>area. It was seen by many people, adults and kids, family
 >>>groups, teens "making out" at a lovers point on South Mountain.
 >>>All described it as a huge triangle with 5 lights.

 >South Mountain is a little hogback ridge (with lots and lots of
 >Antennae) that is immediately south of Sky Harbor - the Phoenix
 >Airport. Oh, less than 5 to 7 miles, as I recall, at least its
 >in the PHX control zone. so the flares were farther South &
 >West. Hmmm?

 >>>Belief here, with many, is that the air force dumped the flares
 >>>to distract and confuse the public off the real event that
 >>>happened at 8:30.

 >Well, as I recall, and according to some news accounts, the
 >flares were dropped over the Barry Goldwater Range-South-west at
 >its closest point (including Luke AFB) about 50 or so miles. Of
 >course, there is other government land: BLM, BIA or USFS (yes
 >there are passable forests in the area) so, the flares coud've
 >been dropped reasonably close to Phoenix - 50 miles - given the
 >altitude of the Jets, which we don't know.

 >One other thing. Having been witness to several attillery
 >exercises at Yakima Firing Center in Washington State - flares
 >drop unevenly.

 >I too hope to clarify things. The flare incident was later and
 >real. However the earlier incidents were also real - but not
 >flares.

 >I hope I've been of help.


Hi GT, Kathy, etc.,

I don't have a problem with fares, just the location.

GT, you know as well as I do the ka-ka that someone would be in
[military or not] if they dropped flares or anything else in CZ
approaches and the CZ in general, never mind over a built up
area.

I thought there was also a report from a pilot climbing out of
Pheonix of a lighted object above him at his 11 o'clock.

Also, flares in Goldstone are not going to be seen in Pheonix.
Also, consider the height at which a flare is effective for
illuminating the ground.

For what it's worth.

Don









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   Mar > Mar 17

                        Yukon Meteor Event Not A UFO

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:31:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 06:43:24 -0500
Subject: Yukon Meteor Event Not A UFO


Hi everyone.

On January 18 a bright glowing object exploded in the sky over
The Yukon near the Alaska border.  The energy of the explosion
was estimated to be in the order of a few kilotons of TNT.

We have now been informed that the search for the debris has
been successful and several fragments of a rare type of
meteorite have been found which are currently being tested.
Below is a forwarded e-mail from NASA with the details.


Nick

-----


Donald Savage
Headquarters, Washington, DC  March 16, 2000
(Phone:  202/358-1547)

Ann Hutchison
Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX
(Phone:  281/483-5111)

Jean-Claude Paradis
Natural Resources Canada, Ottawa, ON
(Phone:  613/992-9426)

RELEASE:  00-41

YUKON METEORITE MAY PROVIDE "NEW WINDOW INTO THE UNIVERSE"

A meteorite that exploded over a remote area of northwest Canada
in January may offer "a new window into the universe before the
solar system was created," said a NASA scientist who has begun
analyzing some of the meteorite fragments.

The very primitive composition and pristine condition of the
4.5-billion-year-old meteorite "offers us a snapshot of the
original composition of the entire solar system before the
planets formed," said Dr. Michael Zolensky, a cosmic
mineralogist at NASA's Johnson Space Center (JSC) in Houston.
"It tells us what the initial materials were like that went into
making up the Earth, the Moon and the Sun."  The age of the
solar system is about 4.5 billion years.

"These meteorite fragments are of immense scientific value and
interest," said Dr. Richard Herd, Curator of National
Collections for the Geological Survey of Canada.  "This rare
find potentially will contribute to a better understanding of
the nature of the universe."  He added that finding previously
undetected compounds in the fragments will have implications for
both planetary and biological sciences worldwide.

The scientists described the fragments -- lumps of crumbly rock
with scorched, pitted surfaces -- as resembling partly used
charcoal briquettes:  black, porous, fairly light and still
smelling of sulfur.

Several factors combined to make this meteorite a cosmic bonanza
for scientists.  First, it is a carbonaceous chondrite, a rare
type of meteorite that contains many forms of carbon and
organics, basic building blocks of life.  Carbonaceous
chondrites, which comprise only about 2 percent of meteorites
known to have fallen to Earth, are typically difficult to
recover because they easily break down during entry into Earth's
atmosphere and during weathering on the ground.

Zolensky said the last time a carbonaceous chondrite like this
fell to Earth and was recovered was 31 years ago.   "This is
probably the only time in my career this will happen," he said.

The location and timing of the fireball also contributed to the
scientific value of the samples.  The fragments are part of a
meteor that blew apart over a remote area of the Yukon Territory
the morning of Jan. 18, 2000.  The resulting sonic booms
startled residents as far away as British Columbia and Alaska.
The frozen, snow-covered ground of the remote Yukon provided
near-ideal conditions for preservation, Herd said.

The finder, a local resident who has requested anonymity,
collected the fragments in clean plastic bags and kept them
continuously frozen.  These are the only freshly fallen
meteorite fragments recovered and transferred to a laboratory
without thawing.  Keeping the fragments continuously frozen
minimized the potential loss of organics and other volatile
compounds in the fragments.

About 2 pounds of meteorite fragments have been recovered so
far.  Of those, Zolensky has about a pound of fragments provided
by the Canadian government and the University of Calgary.  The
finder loaned them to the university and to the National
Meteorite Collection of the Geological Survey of Canada, Natural
Resources Canada (NRCan) in Ottawa, which provided the
still-frozen samples to JSC for study and analysis.  NASA is
working closely with NRCan scientists and is providing results
of the analysis to them.  "We are very sensitive to the fact
that these are Canadian meteorites," Zolensky said.  Any future
studies will be done in cooperation with scientists worldwide.

Scientific analysis of the fragments has just begun.  Tests have
been limited to two non-destructive activities: making a thin
section to analyze the mineralogy of the fragments, and
measuring induced radioactivity.  Tests for induced
radioactivity, which are being carried out by Dr. David
Lindstrom of JSC, measure the object's exposure to space
radiation.  This can be used to determine the size of the
original meteoroid in space, estimates of which range up to 50
feet in diameter, with a mass of more than 55 tons.

The next step in the study of the fragments will be baseline
analyses of the organics in the meteorite.  This would require
the destruction of some samples, and negotiations are under way
with the finder for permission to do such tests.

"The nice thing about having a sample like this is that you
don't really know what you're going to find or where it's going
to lead," Zolensky said.  "You can tuck samples away for the
future when new questions come along that people can't even
think up now."  - end -









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   Mar > Mar 17

                Re: Rumors Link Meteor Sighting & Brush Fire

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:22:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:03:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Rumors Link Meteor Sighting & Brush Fire


 >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:20:30 -0500
 >From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
 >Subject: Rumors Link Meteor Sighting & Brush Fire
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >An update on the Arkansas Crash as reported by Kenny Young
 >previously can be found at the link below.

 >http://www.ardemgaz.com/today/ark/B1xmystery16.html

 >Todd Lemire


I prefer to think of an expert as someone who has spent a great
deal of time and energy becoming familiar with the evidence
related to the problem at hand.

Philip Morrison and the bulk of the SETI cultists certainly are
not experts about UFOs.

Just look at all the scientific data they don't reference.

Just look at the silly comments they make about both
interstellar travel and behavior of aliens.

Just look at how they ignore the national security aspects of
UFOs.

Because they are highly educated in certain areas of science
doesn't mean they are qualified to express professional opinions
on subjects about which they know almost nothing.

Stan Friedman








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   Mar > Mar 17

                        Re: The UFO/Disney Connection

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:46:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:09:54 -0500
Subject: Re: The UFO/Disney Connection


 >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:35:46 -0500
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: The UFO/Disney Connection
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:23:00 -0500
 >>From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net
 >>Subject: The NASA/Disney Connection
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >>Source: Marshall Space Flight Centre History Office>>

 >>http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/sf/disney.html


<snip>

 >>EXCERPTS:

 >>Von Braun served as technical advisor on three space-related
 >>television films that Disney produced in the 1950s. Together,
 >>von Braun (the engineer) and Disney (the artist) used the new
 >>medium of television to illustrate how high man might fly on the
 >>strength of technology and the spirit of human imagination.>

<snip>

 >>"The Disney-Von Braun Collaboration and Its Influence on Space
 >>Exploration">

 >>by
 >>Mike Wright
 >>Marshall Space Flight Center Historian

 >And Now, (with apologies to Paul Harvey)
 >The Rest Of The Story!!!!  !!!!   !!!!

 >Seeing this history of Disney's involvement with NASA and von
 >Braun, and especially the mention of Ward Kimball brought back
 >memories of 20 years ago. Although many people heard, perhaps
 >few remember (or are around to say) what Ward Kimball told the
 >MUFON symposium in 1979 (I think; or 1978 if not 1979).

 >I met Kimball in 1980. I was at his house. I saw his tremendous
 >collection of model trains... that filled a litte building in
 >back of his house. Kimball was not satisfied with toy trains,
 >however, He also had a REAL TRAIN (engine and coal car) and
 >about 500 ft of track. He told me that back in the good old days
 >(fifties, sixties) when he had parties at his house in Beverly
 >Hills that he and Walt and the boys would get up a head of steam
 >in that old engine, shove into forward, and scream along the
 >track until the slammed on the brakes, stopping jus short of the
 >end of the track. Fun.

 >Probably a lot of people about the train. Probably not as many
 >knew about his collection of UFO books, magazines, etc. Yes, the
 >untold story: Ward Kimball, production director (?) of
 >Cinderella, promoter of the NASA-Disney connection, etc. Good
 >Old Ward was a UFO Buff!

<snip>

I appreciate Bruce bringing up the Ward Kimball story.

It was at the Saturday Night program of the July, 1979, MUFON
Symposium in San Francisco. Kimball spoke first, then Allen
Hynek, and then me. Ward also noted that after being promised
footage with nothing being delivered, he spoke with a USAF
Colonel. The latter told him that there indeed was plenty of UFO
footage, but that neither Ward, nor anybody else, was going to
get access to it.

I should add that I have recently been told that the late Dr.
Hans Nieper, a rather remarkable German Physician, has told
people that Von Braun told him that indeed aliens and flying
saucers were real.

Stan Friedman








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   Mar > Mar 17

                        Re: The UFO/Disney Connection

From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:25:13 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:47:21 -0500
Subject: Re: The UFO/Disney Connection


 >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:35:46 -0500
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: The UFO/Disney Connection
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Seeing this history of Disney's involvement with NASA and von
 >Braun, and especially the mention of Ward Kimball brought back
 >memories of 20 years ago. Although many people heard, perhaps
 >few remember (or are around to say) what Ward Kimball told the
 >MUFON symposium in 1979 (I think; or 1978 if not 1979).

<snip>

Great stuff Bruce.

I have a section about the disney video at:

http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/disney.html

I also have a copy of the video but it has become too worn and
fragile from making too many copies.

Dan





--

A Portal to Magic Shows & Acoustic Music
Entertainment in Michigan. Guitarist / Magician
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan

UFO Folklore !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html

Dan's Magic in Michigan !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/magician

Dantronix !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/testwave.html









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   Mar > Mar 17

                                Re: Reed Hoax

From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:15:30 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:32:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Reed Hoax


 >Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:23:08 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:05:37 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca


To Robert Gates and the List,

I think that you just gave a good illustration of the
"Hoax-Debunking scenario", which we could also call the "Rotten
Apple scenario" : if I find a rotten apple in the barrel I throw
them all out.

What is the sceenario in this case ?

A dubious speaker is invited at a convention, together with
about thirty others. You are right to lament that he was well
received by the audience (I can confirm that since I was there :
I glanced five minutes in the room to check that). But I can
also tell you that many speakers did not buy it (I checked that
too).

Never mind, your mind is set already.

They have invited Reed, therefore there was nothing good there :

 >Being that the organizers of this conference seem to want people
 >whose credentials don't check out, and whose very basic story
 >doesn't check out, kind of tells me the conference is not a
 >serious conference, but a UFO entertainment show.


And that's what is so devastating. There were some very
interesting presentations there, but do you care to know? The
only mails I have seen on this list are to laugh at Reed and the
Laughlin congress.

Just a few names - as examples but there were others:

Joe Lewels (I missed his speech but I know he is a good one,
having read his book. BTW have you read it?)

Roger Leir - new implants. He came with one of his patients. I
talked with him several times and found him quite credible

Ron Regher (very competent talk on spy satellites and their use
for UFO surveillance)

George Knapp - interviews, as yet undisclosed, of Philip Corso

Peter Davenport - remarkable, well documented and illustrated
cases

Daniel Sheenan  - brillant speech, met with standing ovation.

Cheers,

Gildas Bourdais








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   Mar > Mar 18

                                   NUFORA?

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:13:42 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:45:20 -0500
Subject: NUFORA?


Hi All,

I was wondering if any of the UFO Researchers involved in the
above Group would kindly take the time to reveal the answer
behind this statement taken from the NUFORA site.

"Many of NUFORA's founders suspect that little understood
natural and electromagnetic phenomena are responsible for the
majority of simple UFO and "high strangeness" cases prevalent
within available literature"

The question is simple:

Is this statement telling us that mainstream Science has no DATA
on the understanding of Natural & Electromagnetic Phenomena, but
the UFO Researchers involved in NUFORA have this DATA to put
forward such a statement?

And if as the statement says, "little understood", is NUFORA
telling us they are some authority on such Natural &
Electromagnetic Phenomena?

Regards,

Roy..








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   Mar > Mar 18

                          NASA Pulls Back From Mars

From: Steven L. Wilson, Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:52:25 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:29:13 -0500
Subject: NASA Pulls Back From Mars


Friday, 17 March, 2000, 13:14 GMT

NASA Pulls Back From Mars

MPL report will make 'sober reading'

By BBC News Online science editor Dr David Whitehouse

The United States is to abandon its ambitious plans to bring
back rocks from the surface of Mars before the end of the
decade. It is a decision that could set back hopes of an
astronaut landing on the Red Planet by many years.

The search for life on the Red Planet will have to slow down

Dr Carl Pilcher   The devastating news was broken to space
scientists at this week's annual Lunar and Planetary Science
Conference in Houston, Texas, by Dr Carl Pilcher. He is the
scientist leading Nasa's planetary exploration programme.

"The search for life on the Red Planet will have to slow down,"
he said, "until people on Earth have worked out how to land on
Mars without crashing."

Last year's double loss of two Mars probes has forced Nasa to
take a long hard look at its Mars plans.

A mission to land another robot on Mars next year has
effectively been cancelled. It is likely to be replaced with
smaller-budget probes that are being hurriedly designed in
Houston and at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena,
California. A Mars Orbiter mission will, however, go ahead.

The law

Before the loss of the Mars Polar Lander (MPL) last year, Nasa's
plans called for a sample return mission that would bring back
the first Mars rocks to Earth in October 2008. But Dr Pilcher
said, that in the light of recent events, the timetable was
wildly optimistic: "The jury is out on whether we have the
technological capability".



Carl Pilcher - minus the sweatshirt

Breaking the bad news to space scientists, Dr Pilcher had on a
sweatshirt that declared: "Obey Gravity: It's the Law".

Despite the bitter news, he insisted the Mars exploration
programme would continue, and confirmed that a Mars-orbiting
science platform would be launched next year.

He would not discuss the results of the recent study into the
loss of the Mars Polar Lander, due to be published at the end of
the month, but he said the report's conclusions "make sober
reading".

"Our next lander on Mars had better work," he said.









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   Mar > Mar 18

                        Re: The UFO/Disney Connection

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:27:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:36:29 -0500
Subject: Re: The UFO/Disney Connection


 >Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:25:13 -0800
 >From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
 >Subject: Re: The UFO/Disney Connection
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:35:46 -0500
 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Subject: Re: The UFO/Disney Connection
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><snip>

 >>Seeing this history of Disney's involvement with NASA and von
 >>Braun, and especially the mention of Ward Kimball brought back
 >>memories of 20 years ago. Although many people heard, perhaps
 >>few remember (or are around to say) what Ward Kimball told the
 >>MUFON symposium in 1979 (I think; or 1978 if not 1979).

 ><snip>

 >Great stuff Bruce.

 >I have a section about the disney video at:

 >http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/disney.html

 >I also have a copy of the video but it has become too worn and
 >fragile from making too many copies.


The Disney program was produced by

Thomas & Friends Productions

Does anyone have a contact name and number, or hopefully an
email address for someone connected with this production
company?

Thanks for your help.

Steve








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   Mar > Mar 18

                   Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:19:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:40:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs


 >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:49:23 -0300
 >From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


Hello, All, Don.

 >>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:33:16 -0800
 >>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:50:51 -0300
 >>>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Hello, all, Don, Kathy

 >>>>Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:36:40 -0700
 >>>>From: Kathy Hotchner <khotchner@uswest.net>
 >>>>Subject: Re: Sky Lights Will Be Flares, Not UFOs
 >>>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>>Hello Robert, Don, Larry, and list,

 >>>>Here is what seems to be the real truth and the confusion over
 >>>>the Phoenix lights. Two events happened on March 13, a real
 >>>>sighting that to date remains unidentified, and the flares.

<snip>

 >>South Mountain is a little hogback ridge (with lots and lots of
 >>Antennae) that is immediately south of Sky Harbor - the Phoenix
 >>Airport.

<snip>

 >>>>Belief here, with many, is that the air force dumped the flares
 >>>>to distract and confuse the public off the real event that
 >>>>happened at 8:30.

Yes, I think that was  exactly what happened .

 >>Well, as I recall, and according to some news accounts, the
 >>flares were dropped over the Barry Goldwater Range-South-west at
 >>its closest point (including Luke AFB) about 50 or so miles. Of
 >>course, there is other government land: BLM, BIA or USFS (yes
 >>there are passable forests in the area) so, the flares coud've
 >>been dropped reasonably close to Phoenix - 50 miles - given the
 >>altitude of the Jets, which we don't know.

The second show could've been a diversionary tactic-over the
Goldwater range - but whether it was seen from Pheonix, can be
debatable - I've seen the video recently TLC for the fourth
time.

 >>One other thing. Having been witness to several attillery
 >>exercises at Yakima Firing Center in Washington State - flares
 >>drop unevenly.

 >>I too hope to clarify things. The flare incident was later and
 >>real. However the earlier incidents were also real - but not
 >>flares.

 >>I hope I've been of help.

 >Hi GT, Kathy, etc.,

 >I don't have a problem with fares, just the location.

 >GT, you know as well as I do the ka-ka that someone would be in
 >[military or not] if they dropped flares or anything else in CZ
 >approaches and the CZ in general, never mind over a built up
 >area.

 >I thought there was also a report from a pilot climbing out of
 >Pheonix of a lighted object above him at his 11 o'clock.

I agree, and I too, heard of the pilot report.

 >Also, flares in Goldstone are not going to be seen in Pheonix.
 >Also, consider the height at which a flare is effective for
 >illuminating the ground.

 >For what it's worth.

Again it depends on the type of flare, if they were battlefield
illumination flares the could be easily seen at 50 miles or
more, however, I too ,don't think that the AF was dropping
Flares on Metro Phoenix that night. The absirdity of that
agument is breathtaking.

 >Don

Another thing , A-10s in formation at low altitude through
the one of the worst -as far as mixed traffic - areas on the
west coast. Also the Phoenix area is studded with all sorts
of little peaks and hills you can hit(it's bad enough in low
viz in broad daylight).

One more thing ,( I feel like Peter Falk's Colombo) any one
who thinks that V -shape formations are common pratice
are wrong. Airshows yes, but not in actual pratice not
en masse' anyway I've seen a lot of A-10 traffic and not once
have I ever seen any thing but what would be closer to the
"Combat Box" style of formation I'm shure the can be some
clarification this- maybe I'm wrong (I've never been a Military
Pilot just around this sort of thing as a civil Contract Pliot over
the years and in various guises.)

Thanks, GT McCoy








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   Mar > Mar 18

                                   Absence

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:11:50 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:31:46 -0500
Subject: Absence


Hi Errol, Hi All

I have just returned after a two week absence forced upon me by
a lady driver not looking before she pulled out of a junction.

John Velez, I will catch up with you with regards to the dust
sample sometime in the next few days.

Anyone else, I have in excess of 500 emails to get through, if
there are any personal ones I will get through to you.

Jan, I am damn glad you changed your mind, it would have been a
great loss to Ufology to lose your efforts into good honest
research.

--
    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/









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   Mar > Mar 18

                        'A New Day For UFO Research'?

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:31:55 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:35:32 -0500
Subject: 'A New Day For UFO Research'?


Greetings list -

Source: SPACE.com

http://www.space.com/spaceimagined/area51/nids_investigation_000315.html


A New Day for UFO Research
By Patrick Huyghe
special to SPACE.com
posted: 12:43 pm EST
15 March 2000

The Air Force did it, albeit reluctantly, for about two decades.
A few private UFO organizations tried it, too -- and promptly
lost their shirts.

Now the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) is doing
it -- fielding a rapid response team to investigate promising
UFO reports. The question is: will they succeed where others
have failed?

NIDS was founded in 1995 by Las Vegas real-estate tycoon Robert
Bigelow to investigate UFO sightings, animal mutilations and
other anomalous phenomena.

Through its first four years of operation, during which Bigelow
hired a staff of scientists to run the institute, NIDS was
largely silent about its work and cagey in its public
statements.

Few people were even aware of its existence and those who were,
primarily UFOlogists, regarded the fledging institute in the
desert with suspicion.

All that has now changed.

See something? Call the experts

"About a year ago we decided it was time to start reaching out
so that people could come to us with reports," notes biochemist
Colm Kelleher, who runs the day-to-day research operations of
the institute.

Four months ago the institute actually began mass mailing a NIDS
brochure and sticker promoting its 24-hour hotline
(702-798-1700) and web address to police departments and radio
and television stations.

"These are the people who get called about UFO sightings, but
they are not trained to investigate these things and are not
even interested most of the time," Kelleher said. "We were
hoping to persuade these people to call us and we would do the
rest."

The plan worked. NIDS has been getting about 100 calls a month,
but until the morning of January 5 when a call came in from a
police officer in Illinois just east of St. Louis, no hotline
UFO report had been deemed worthy of an all-out NIDS
investigation.

This one was. Craig Stevens of the Milstadt Police Department
called NIDS about two hours after his UFO sighting at 4:28 that
morning. Stevens had been monitoring radio traffic when he heard
that the Highland police department had a report of a large
object flying in the air.

So he drove to the north end of town where he observed a very
large object shaped like a fat arrowhead flying slowly at an
altitude of 500 to 1000 ft. Police officers in Shiloh and Dupo
also witnessed the object, as did a police officer in Lebanon.

The low-flying, triangular object was described as being between
200-600 feet long and 40-60 feet thick with bright white lights
angled downward at the corners and a red light near the center.

Agents of NIDS arrive on the scene

After numerous follow-up phone calls, NIDS decided to deploy
their two full-time investigators, former FBI agents, to
Illinois.

Why FBI? "We like guys with a lot of forensic background," says
Kelleher, "because in the mutilation area and in the tiny
percent of cases where alleged landings occur, you really need
people who can secure the scene and handle the evidence properly
so that we can stand behind it."

The NIDS investigators arrived in Illinois two days after the
initial sighting, spending almost four days interviewing
eyewitnesses, taking photographs and seeking a possible
explanation from a local Boeing facility, nearby Scott Air Force
base, and the FAA.

NIDS immediately put the transcripts of the interviews on their
web site in the hope of unearthing other witnesses who might
have seen the object. Such openness in their investigation
stands in stark contrast to similar efforts by the Air Force
decades ago.

But their efforts to find a prosaic explanation for the
sightings failed.

Ticking off the explanations

The FAA had not seen anything on radar. Scott Air Force Base
officials said they didn't know anything about the object and
there were no stealth B-2s in the area at the time.

NIDS even considered the possibility that the UFO might have
been a secret blimp that resembled a small experimental model
built and patented 30 years earlier by a New Jersey company
called Aereon, but that design, according Aereon's CEO, never
went past the proof of principle stage.

NIDS' eight eyewitness reports suggest that the object came down
from Lake Michigan just north of Chicago at 10:00 p.m. on
January 4 and headed southwest, appearing 6 hours later in
Highland, before finally disappearing outside Dupo just before 7
a.m.

"That's about 9 hours in the air," notes Kelleher. "That's a
long time."

On the other hand, according to at least one police officer, the
object would literally jump across the sky in a matter of
seconds. The other weird thing is, if it's trying to be
stealthy, what's it doing so low with these unbelievably bright,
blinding lights?"

Physicist Bruce Maccabee, like many UFO believers, gave NIDS a
thumbs up for "their quick response and excellent work in
interviewing witnesses on the scene. I also congratulate them
for publishing their results on their web site."

Klass unimpressed

Not so for UFO skeptic Phil Klass.

"By curious coincidence," he writes in the March issue of his
Skeptics UFO Newsletter, "a very bright planet Venus was just
rising in the southeast on Jan. 5 at the time of the Illinois
UFO sightings."

Klass accuses NIDS of not even considering the possibility that
the UFO might have been Venus.

"Although I have not personally met [the NIDS investigators],"
Klass told me in an email interview, "I suspect they are quite
competent to investigate 'cattle mutilations,' but believe they
are ill-trained to investigate UFO reports."

But according to NIDS astrophysicist Eric Davis, they did
consider, then rejected, stars or planets as possible
explanations for this case.

In fact, Davis told Michael Lindemann of CNI News that Venus was
below the horizon when the UFO was first sighted near Highland
at approximately 4 a.m.

Venus actually did not rise until 4:25 that morning and would
have been difficult to see initially because of the surrounding
trees, rolling hills and structures in the area.

"Bigelow is in this long term"

"But we still can't rule out the military," concludes Kelleher.
And there, rather typically for a UFO sighting, the matter
rests.

Whether NIDS will ultimately succeed where the Air Force and so
many others have failed over the past 40 years is another
question entirely.

We have an ability to go to the wall, if necessary, on the
analysis front," explains Kelleher. "We have the resources to
pull out all the stops, our science advisory board has the
ability to open doors, and Bigelow is in this long term."

"He's been into this ever since his family members had a
sighting when he was a kid. He's been putting money into this
for quite a while. Plus we have a full time staff not doing
anything else. We are not a volunteer group doing it on our own
time or funds. I think NIDS has a lot of potential."

Stay tuned.

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com








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   Mar > Mar 18

                  Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!

From: Patrick Bailey <pgb@padrak.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:08:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:07:19 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!

During the International UFO Congress last week, I talked with
Jim Dilettoso about the Phoenix Lights which usually are
referred to as the "so-called flares" that were seen,
videotaped, and reported by the media and at all the UFO and
MUFON conferences.

Remember: These "flares" were the lights that looked like they
were spread out in a kind-of wavey horizontal pattern in the sky
for a long time - AFTER - the large triangle(s) had slowly gone
over Phoenix and stopped at least once. Peter Davenport has
several witnesses to the actual TRIANGLE(S)) - who say that it
was OVER 1 MILE across.  Two jets also overflew the triangle(s).
Peter has all the details on that at The National UFO reporting
Center: http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr .

So anyway - read this!:

Jim tells me that he had in 1998 taken several videotapes of
these "flares" from local residents and that he made a 3-D model
in a computer from the videos, and then he made sure that the
model gave him back what each video saw (from each prospective
viewing angle) - so that the 3-D representation fitted all the
2-D videotapes - and then he rotated the 3-D model of the
"flares" in the computer - and he figured out that ... (get
ready - ta da:)

The so called "flares" are another very large stationary
triangle.


So much for "thinking about".

This is Fact.


Patrick Bailey.

PS - Also, you will recall that the "UFO" that was seen over the
Bentwaters-Woodbridge Base in Dec. 1980, as described in the CD
and the book "Left at East Gate"  (you know, the one that
neutralized a lot of (all of?) the nuclear warheads that were
stored there by the US in the UK, while the US was denying that
they ever existed) - was ALSO a very large triangle.  Gee, I
wonder what is being buried near or under Phoenix?...

Ho hum...
Back to Bud and basketball (for most of you...)...









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                                 Re: NUFORA?

From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:19:59 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:21:01 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORA?


 >Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:13:42 +0000
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: NUFORA?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hi All,

 >I was wondering if any of the UFO Researchers involved in the
 >above Group would kindly take the time to reveal the answer
 >behind this statement taken from the NUFORA site.

 >"Many of NUFORA's founders suspect that little understood
 >natural and electromagnetic phenomena are responsible for the
 >majority of simple UFO and "high strangeness" cases prevalent
 >within available literature"

 >The question is simple:

 >Is this statement telling us that mainstream Science has no DATA
 >on the understanding of Natural & Electromagnetic Phenomena, but
 >the UFO Researchers involved in NUFORA have this DATA to put
 >forward such a statement?

 >And if as the statement says, "little understood", is NUFORA
 >telling us they are some authority on such Natural &
 >Electromagnetic Phenomena?

Roy,

I am not part of NUFORA but the way I read the statement is
different from the way you have interpreted it.

You are suggesting that NUFORA's statement says that "natural
and electromagnetic phenomena" is "little understood".

I interpret the "little understood" to be an adjective that
describes a subset of "natural and electromagnetic phenomenon".
Of all "natural and electromagnetic phenomenon", NUFORA
"suspects" that it is the "little understood" subset of the
phenomenon that results in the "majority of simple UFO and high
strangeness cases prevalent within available literature".

Certainly there are some "natural and electromagnetic
phenomenon" that are not well understood by scientists. I detect
nothing in NUFORA's statement to suggest that NUFORA is claiming
to be an expert on this phenonmena either. Nor is there anything
in NUFORA's statement to suggest anything with regard to DATA.

My two cents worth.

Tim Haley









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   Mar > Mar 18

                         Re: Is CNN Editing Reality?

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:41:44 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:46:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Is CNN Editing Reality?


 >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:48:46 +0100 (MET)
 >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
 >Subject: Re: Is CNN Editing Reality?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Whether CNN has edited an image of Mars I don't know.

CNN did not edit the image; the Catbox "enhancement" released to
the news media on April 6, 1998 was doctored by persons unknown
at JPL. It is not a raw image as Holliman supposed; it was a
heavily processed fraud.

 >Whether CNN has edited an image of Mars I don't know. I do know
 >that CNN has admitted that military persons were employed by CNN
 >during the Kosovo conflict. Obviously communication specialists,
 >they were working for CNN as so called "interns. In other words,
 >there is evidence that CNN does cooperate with authorities when
 >asked to.


I suspect that the deletion of Holliman's article was not the
work of a CIA plant or anything like that. What I think may have
happened is  that someone at JPL called CNN up expressing
displeasure with the negative tone of Hollimans initial article
on the MGS image and that CNN then obligingly deleted it. In the
old days before the Watergate Scandal, White House journalists
were reluctant to print negative articles on Presidents because
it could mean losing their inside sources of information at the
White House. Media deference to the White House is past history,
now, but it seems to still be a major factor in press relations
with other official entities.

There are still a few welcome exceptions to the media's
obsequious treatment of JPL, however. Reporter Billy Cox
occasionally writes something that will ruffle JPL's feathers,
like his recent article on the connection of the Mission to Mars
movie and the actual Cydonia research, in which he quotes plasma
physcisist Dr. John Brandenburg as stating:

"I have it on excellent authority that JPL wants no major
discoveries on Mars because they oppose manned landings. They
want to keep it an academic exercise," Brandenburg charges.
"Mars needs to be turned over to Johnson Space Center in
Houston."






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                        Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:51:56 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:00:19 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars


 >Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:52:25 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Steven L. Wilson, Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
 >Subject: NASA Pulls Back From Mars
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Friday, 17 March, 2000, 13:14 GMT

 >NASA Pulls Back From Mars

 >MPL report will make 'sober reading'

 >By BBC News Online science editor Dr David Whitehouse

 >...
 >"The search for life on the Red Planet will have to slow down,"
 >he said, "until people on Earth have worked out how to land on
 >Mars without crashing."


JPL used to know how to land without crashing on Mars back in
the '70s, when both Viking landers made it successfully using
technology that was primitive in comparison to what is available
now.

Apparently, they've forgotten some of the finer points of
celestial navigation while they were concentrating their
attentions on public relations. The laws of physics cannot be so
easily manipulated as public opinion. The planet Mars is
indifferent to press releases.









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                          We're Probably Not Alone

From: Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:57:57 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:03:53 -0500
Subject: We're Probably Not Alone


Oct. 24, 1999
Former Blue Book chief says, `We're probably not alone'

By William Coleman, Jr.
A FLORIDA TODAY guest column

In the summer of 1947, Kenneth Arnold, a businessman from Boise,
Idaho, was flying his private airplane near Mount Ranier, Wash.

He reported seeing a group of unidentified objects flying along
in a line over the mountains ahead of his course. He described
them as appearing "like pie plates skipping over water."

The newspaper report called them "flying saucers" - a
description that would never go away. Moreover, the fact that
Arnold was an Air Force Reserve major added to the authenticity
of the story.

Soon thereafter, the Air Force received other reports of "flying
saucers." The pressure politically and otherwise was on. The Air
Force hastily organized a project in 1949 to look into the
sightings.

Four years later, the effort became known as Project Blue Book,
which was the Air Force's official study of UFOs.

During its almost 21 years of existence, the project
investigated more than 12,800 reports of sightings. All were
resolved except 728 cases. Of these, the Air Force was left with
130 cases that were worrisome and unresolved.

That is, those cases contained two vital characteristics that
set them apart from all the others.

First, they demonstrated high ratings of credibility, such as
multiple witnesses who were highly qualified. Second, they had a
quality we called "high strangeness." That means the witnesses
were seeing something that had never been seen before even
though they were highly experienced in the observation of aerial
phenomena.

What do I believe?

The possibility of manipulative intelligent life in our universe
is very likely, perhaps even in our own Milky Way galaxy. Of the
10 classes of stars that exist, three could provide the kind of
stable warmth and surroundings that could support planets such
as ours.

Have we been visited by extraterrestrial beings?

During Project Blue Book, we found no evidence that would
conclusively prove we have. That doesn't mean that we haven't
had such a visit. It only means we haven't found evidence.

Any visiting alien would introduce - and himself or herself face
- several major problems. Besides those associated with
geopolitical, theological and other issues, perhaps the most
important would be biological.

This means the possible introduction of unknown bacteria and
viruses into our population for which we have no built-in
defense. Morever, an alien could very well face just as tough a
problem since he or she might be inflicted by Earth-born germs.

The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) is a
marvelous project. But we must remember that if we receive a
signal from a star system 10,000 light years away and we respond
to it by sending a reply, we'll have to wait 20,000 years before
we know whether it was received.

The nearest star that could possibly offer a planet somewhat
like ours would be Bernards Star, which is about 6.1 light years
away.

Imagine such a trip there, if you will. If you were a twin and
and your brother or sister remained here while you went
rocketing to Bernards Star at 90 percent the speed of light,
when you returned to Earth your sibling would be more than 12
years older than you.

Are we alone? I think not. I've always found the passage from
Scripture in the Bible exciting, wherein Jesus told the people,
"You are not the only sheep in my flock."

Coleman is a retired Air Force colonel and command pilot who was
head of Project Blue Book for three years. He lives in Indian
Harbour Beach.


Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/ufomiami/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/1341/index.html









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   Mar > Mar 19

                  Florida Today on Cydonia, Mission To Mars

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:59:44 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:22:16 -0500
Subject: Florida Today on Cydonia, Mission To Mars


In my previous message about CNN, I neglected to mention that
Billy Cox, who interviewed Dr. Brandenburg, is a reporter for
Florida Today. His article can be accessed at:

http://www.floridatoday.com/news/people/stories/2000/mar/peo031600a.htm








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                        Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars

From: James S Mortellaro <docgripple@juno.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:16:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:31:00 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars


 >Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:51:56 -0600
 >From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:52:25 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Steven L. Wilson, Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
 >>Subject: NASA Pulls Back From Mars
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Friday, 17 March, 2000, 13:14 GMT

 >>NASA Pulls Back From Mars

 >>MPL report will make 'sober reading'

 >>By BBC News Online science editor Dr David Whitehouse

 >>"The search for life on the Red Planet will have to slow down,"
 >>he said, "until people on Earth have worked out how to land on
 >>Mars without crashing."

 >JPL used to know how to land without crashing on Mars back in
 >the '70s, when both Viking landers made it successfully using
 >technology that was primitive in comparison to what is available
 >now.

 >Apparently, they've forgotten some of the finer points of
 >celestial navigation while they were concentrating their
 >attentions on public relations. The laws of physics cannot be so
 >easily manipulated as public opinion. The planet Mars is
 >indifferent to press releases.

Dear Lan, Steve, Errol and Listers;

Back in 1966 I began a career in aerospace, a career which
startled the stuffing out me, because I just that year graduated
from Manhattan college, I'd NEVER seen a computer, let alone
operate one the size of my Electronics Lab at College, never
used a calculator (other than a slide rule, because they would
not invent one you could use and hold in your hand until the
70's).

In college, I learned how a _new device_ had just been
introduced onto our field of dreams.  It was called a
transistor. Woof!  IC's? Ah, whassat?

In light of this higher education, I had a hand in watching
spacecraft fly missions throughout the solar system, swinging by
all the planets often using nothing more than inertia wheels and
low thrust dry nitrogen gas, mostly inertia wheels winding up
and down to move the platform.

Yet in spite of all that low technology, Voyager and spacecraft
like it are still out there blasting their micro, micro, micro,
micro watts of power to us from way out there, on target out
beyond Pluto.

Gimme a break.  I retired just a few years ago after a not so
shabby career in aerospace and very high technology. NASA lost
the formula a while back.  It may have been just before
Challenger.  Likely, it was long before.  What NASA gave up was
the kind of _expensive_ but necessary quality control, not just
technology, but the level of care and concern that made NASA the
hero of this little boy watching "Futureland" on the ABC TV
"Walt Disney" shows and not even caring that my hero had worked
for Uncle Addy.

Face it.  It is just not there any more.  It's a sign of the
times. Give it up if it costs more.  Make it in a place where
they make less than a buck

a day and buy it from the Mongolians after we GIVE them the
technology.

"Nuts!"  to NASA and "Nuts!" to anyone applauding them for doing
what they should've done mucho years ago.  Pay attention to
detail and stand by until they got it right.

Oh, and learn the difference between a mile and a kilometer.
Cheeses, how could I forget?

And since it has taken a while ,allow me the pleasure of asking
the following question.  Why have my sales of Gripple slowed to
a dripple?  C'mon folks, I need the money.

Jim






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                  Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!

From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:02:30 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:39:31 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!


 >Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:08:11 -0700
 >From: Patrick Bailey <pgb@padrak.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >During the International UFO Congress last week, I talked with
 >Jim Dilettoso about the Phoenix Lights which usually are
 >referred to as the "so-called flares" that were seen,
 >videotaped, and reported by the media and at all the UFO and
 >MUFON conferences.

 >Remember: These "flares" were the lights that looked like they
 >were spread out in a kind-of wavey horizontal pattern in the sky
 >for a long time - AFTER - the large triangle(s) had slowly gone
 >over Phoenix and stopped at least once. Peter Davenport has
 >several witnesses to the actual TRIANGLE(S)) - who say that it
 >was OVER 1 MILE across.  Two jets also overflew the
triangle(s).
 >Peter has all the details on that at The National UFO reporting
 >Center: http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr .

 >So anyway - read this!:

 >Jim tells me that he had in 1998 taken several videotapes of
 >these "flares" from local residents and that he made a 3-D model
 >in a computer from the videos, and then he made sure that the
 >model gave him back what each video saw (from each prospective
 >viewing angle) - so that the 3-D representation fitted all the
 >2-D videotapes - and then he rotated the 3-D model of the
 >"flares" in the computer - and he figured out that ... (get
 >ready - ta da:)

 >The so called "flares" are another very large stationary
 >triangle.

 >So much for "thinking about".

 >This is Fact.

 >Patrick Bailey.

 >PS - Also, you will recall that the "UFO" that was seen over the
 >Bentwaters-Woodbridge Base in Dec. 1980, as described in the CD
 >and the book "Left at East Gate"  (you know, the one that
 >neutralized a lot of (all of?) the nuclear warheads that were
 >stored there by the US in the UK, while the US was denying that
 >they ever existed) - was ALSO a very large triangle.  Gee, I
 >wonder what is being buried near or under Phoenix?...

 >Ho hum...
 >Back to Bud and basketball (for most of you...)...


Wow, and all this time some of us were silly enough to be
careful in tossing about words like 'fact' and 'conclusive.'
Over and over, I see more resemblance between the 'believers'
and the 'debunkers' than I would like to admit.  But thank
goodness for the champions of humanity.  While most folks waste
their time on beer and sports, others champion the cause and
fight like warriors for The Truth(tm)!  Those who don't yet
believe are obviously just in denial, or employed by the
government as part o the conspiracy (how bout a bloody
conspiracy to fix the feckin pothole in front o my house while
we're at it?)  The homeless? feh!  World hunger? bah!  Those are
just wastes of time.  The true heroes face the daily battle of
an invasion of men from [insert token star system here] who are
stealing away millions of people in the night!  They fight for
truth and attempt to awaken the human race!  Hm, if I was a
cynic (and what the hell, I am) I might say that in some cases
this is a belief system that serves the purpose of giving
comfort and the illusion of meaning to the lives of those
involved.

It seems, human beings have a real fear of not knowing the
damned answers to everything.  They'd gladly be wrong or jump
the gun, just for the comfort of not having to NOT know.  While
the brave folks who fight for truth and light, or whatever else,
think they are heroes, I'd prefer to think it takes more guts to
admit you don't know what the hell the answers (or even the
questions) might be.  Keep your mind open, no matter what the
answers may be, and whether you like them or not.  Whether they
end up making you feel like the victim of a galactic conspiracy,
a champion of the human race, or maybe, just possibly, alone and
as common as everyone else on a 'pale blue dot.'

Preserve yer ambiguity.

And to you, Mr. Quixote, I say, keep on fighting those
windmills.



)+(
"Better to go hungry than to feast on lies."
TBrigham@ksinc.net
http://zap.to/MindPhuck  Operation MindPhuck
)+(








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   Mar > Mar 19

                  Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!

From: Paul Wittry <ppw3@home.com>
Date: Sat Mar 18 15:43:03 -0800 (PST) 2000
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:47:06 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!


 >Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:08:11 -0700
 >From: Patrick Bailey <pgb@padrak.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 > ... Gee, I  wonder what is being buried near or under
 >Phoenix?...


Hi Patrick, and All,

OK Patrick, you got me what _IS_ being "buried near or under
Phoenix?...". I'm sure you would liket to elaborate on this,
wouldn't you?

Thanks,

Paul









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                        Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 19:39:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:48:30 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars


 >Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:51:56 -0600
 >From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >JPL used to know how to land without crashing on Mars back in
 >the '70s, when both Viking landers made it successfully using
 >technology that was primitive in comparison to what is available
 >now.

 >Apparently, they've forgotten some of the finer points of
 >celestial navigation while they were concentrating their
 >attentions on public relations. The laws of physics cannot be so
 >easily manipulated as public opinion. The planet Mars is
 >indifferent to press releases.

I think the point is that the Viking landers were designed,
built, and implemented by a system that was far more
comprehensive than was the case during the recent failures.
While the Mars Rover was a major success, the two major failures
last year have caused NASA to rethink its approach to space
exploration.

I think that it serves little purpose to point fingers and lay
blame, but NASA has learned a hard lesson that they can't manage
space programs on a limited budget.  Of course, funding is a
problem for the Space Agency, and there's little political
desire to pour money into the program without tangible results
in the foreseeable future.

We will probably see greater involvement by private corporations
in the area of space flight, and in the end that may be the key
to getting the proposed International Space Station into orbit.

My 2-cents.

Steve







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                         Re: Is CNN Editing Reality?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:28:15 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:57:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Is CNN Editing Reality?


 >Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:41:44 -0600
 >From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: Is CNN Editing Reality?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:48:46 +0100 (MET)
 >>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
 >>Subject: Re: Is CNN Editing Reality?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Whether CNN has edited an image of Mars I don't know.

 >CNN did not edit the image; the Catbox "enhancement" released to
 >the news media on April 6, 1998 was doctored by persons unknown
 >at JPL. It is not a raw image as Holliman supposed; it was a
 >heavily processed fraud.

 >>Whether CNN has edited an image of Mars I don't know. I do know
 >>that CNN has admitted that military persons were employed by CNN
 >>during the Kosovo conflict. Obviously communication specialists,
 >>they were working for CNN as so called "interns. In other words,
 >>there is evidence that CNN does cooperate with authorities when
 >>asked to.

 >I suspect that the deletion of Holliman's article was not the
 >work of a CIA plant or anything like that. What I think may have
 >happened is  that someone at JPL called CNN up expressing
 >displeasure with the negative tone of Hollimans initial article
 >on the MGS image and that CNN then obligingly deleted it. In the
 >old days before the Watergate Scandal, White House journalists
 >were reluctant to print negative articles on Presidents because
 >it could mean losing their inside sources of information at the
 >White House. Media deference to the White House is past history,
 >now, but it seems to still be a major factor in press relations
 >with other official entities.

 >There are still a few welcome exceptions to the media's
 >obsequious treatment of JPL, however. Reporter Billy Cox
 >occasionally writes something that will ruffle JPL's feathers,
 >like his recent article on the connection of the Mission to Mars
 >movie and the actual Cydonia research, in which he quotes plasma
 >physcisist Dr. John Brandenburg as stating:

 >"I have it on excellent authority that JPL wants no major
 >discoveries on Mars because they oppose manned landings. They
 >want to keep it an academic exercise," Brandenburg charges.
 >"Mars needs to be turned over to Johnson Space Center in
 >Houston."


Hello all:

Just a simple question here.

Is it entirely necessary to send men to Mars just to bring back
some precious rocks?

Rocks, sand and alluvia would speak volumes about the natural
history of Mars, perhaps even answering our questions about
possible life there... even if it is only ancient long extinct
microbes.

How hard can it be to devise design some sort of scooping
mechanism, on a lander that can take off again and bring the
evidence back?

As for the cost, its not even beer money when divided among
hundreds of millions of taxpayers.

The technical difficulties are probably solvable. The messiest
part seems to be political.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

- - - - -







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                  Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:22:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:02:49 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!


 >Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:08:11 -0700
 >From: Patrick Bailey <pgb@padrak.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

Hello all, Patrick,

 >During the International UFO Congress last week, I talked with
 >Jim Dilettoso about the Phoenix Lights which usually are
 >referred to as the "so-called flares" that were seen,
 >videotaped, and reported by the media and at all the UFO and
 >MUFON conferences.

 >Remember: These "flares" were the lights that looked like they
 >were spread out in a kind-of wavey horizontal pattern in the sky
 >for a long time - AFTER - the large triangle(s) had slowly gone
 >over Phoenix and stopped at least once. Peter Davenport has
 >several witnesses to the actual TRIANGLE(S)) - who say that it
 >was OVER 1 MILE across.  Two jets also overflew the triangle(s).
 >Peter has all the details on that at The National UFO reporting
 >Center: http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr .

 >So anyway - read this!:

 >Jim tells me that he had in 1998 taken several videotapes of
 >these "flares" from local residents and that he made a 3-D model
 >in a computer from the videos, and then he made sure that the
 >model gave him back what each video saw (from each prospective
 >viewing angle) - so that the 3-D representation fitted all the
 >2-D videotapes - and then he rotated the 3-D model of the
 >"flares" in the computer - and he figured out that ... (get
 >ready - ta da:)

 >The so called "flares" are another very large stationary
 >triangle.


 >So much for "thinking about".

 >This is Fact.

Well, it may very well be that the 'flares' are another
Triangle, no argument here. But, the Govn't explination however
thin, is the one that the public-for the most part - buys.

 >Patrick Bailey.

 >PS - Also, you will recall that the "UFO" that was seen over the
 >Bentwaters-Woodbridge Base in Dec. 1980, as described in the CD
 >and the book "Left at East Gate"  (you know, the one that
 >neutralized a lot of (all of?) the nuclear warheads that were
 >stored there by the US in the UK, while the US was denying that
 >they ever existed) - was ALSO a very large triangle.  Gee, I
 >wonder what is being buried near or under Phoenix?...

 >Ho hum...
 >Back to Bud and basketball (for most of you...)...

Try halfway between Flagstaff and Prescott - there is a nuclear
warhead storage area; this miserable little Restricted Area that
is almost as jealously guarded as Area 51. It's on the map on
sectionals and WAC  charts. This whole flap started in Prescott,
I recall, any details from "up in yonder Sierry Petes"* that
have since been added?

GT McCoy

*Sierra Prieta mountian range  made famous by various Cowboy
Poets.








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                             Re: Water on Mars?

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@temporaldoorway.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:39:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:30:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Water on Mars?

 >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:21:38 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >Subject: Water on Mars?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Given the NASA news reports about recently discovered canals on
 >Mars, I would like to hear comments from the list on how these
 >canals might have been formed.

There are no "canals" in the findings. Only eroded channels
produced by natural flood and water flow.

 >I find it somewhat amusing that planetary scientists will, on
 >the one hand, scoff at the interpretation of the Cydonia region
 >as containing artificial structures, while on the other hand,
 >exclaim that the valleys and crevices seen on the Martian
 >surface must have been due to liquid water.

The presence of liquid water does not necessitate the
development of life or intelligence, so what's the problem?

 >In both cases, the human brain is trying to make sense out of
 >visual clues. However, a little analysis is in order.

The resolution of the images is sufficient to identify the
geometry of the channels at a level which shows that they are
natural analogues to those on earth. In addition, the recent
photos of Cydonia have equally clearly shown those to be
geologic features - unusual ones taken out of context, but not
that strange compared to the rest of Mars.

 >I have not heard of any planetary scientist consider that fact
 >that the mass of Mars could never support the atmosphere
 >required for the surface barometric pressure to allow liquid
 >water to exist.  Liquid water is extremely volatile, if it
 >exists at all, at less than 10 millibar of pressure. That is a
 >fact of thermodynamics. How could a "heavier" atmosphere exist
 >without additional planetary mass?

In the early history of Mars, outgassing, through volcanism and
other processes, was probably sufficient to counteract
atmospheric escape. It has also been considered that impacts
such as that which formed the Argyre basin would potentially
eject a certain portion of that primordial atmosphere.

Currently, liquid water cannot exist on the Martian surface,
and, indeed, it does not. Many of the remnant geologic features
on Mars which suggest the former presence of liquid water could
be formed by volcanically triggered melting of ice and
permafrost deposits.

I strongly recommend you read "Mars" (U of AZ, Kieffer et al)
and "The Surface of Mars" (Carr) before leaping to conclusions
about Martian features.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, music and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------








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   Mar > Mar 19

                    Have We Missed Signs Of Life On Mars?

From: Steven L. Wilson, Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:34:38 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:34:05 -0500
Subject: Have We Missed Signs Of Life On Mars?

Source: http://www.newscientist.com

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (vol 97, p 2425)

New Scientist issue: 18th March 2000

UK Contact: Claire Bowles
claire.bowles@rbi.co.uk
44-0-207-331-2751
New Scientist
US Contact: New Scientist Washington Office
newscidc@idt.net
202-452-1178

Have we missed signs of life on Mars?

The surface of Mars could be littered with the chemical residues
of life. Previous missions to the planet were simply not
equipped to detect them, researchers claim.

The Viking spacecraft, which landed on Mars nearly 25 years ago,
failed to find any signs of organic molecules, dashing hopes of
detecting traces of life-modern or ancient-on the surface.
Scientists have since assumed that the harsh oxidising
environment on the surface would destroy such molecules and that
future missions will have to drill into the ground to find them.

But the chemistry of Mars could have altered organic molecules
in a number of complex ways, says Steven Benner, a chemist and
Mars exploration consultant at the University of Florida in
Gainesville. "There are some people who can look at music scores
and see the chords," he says, "and there is a similar talent for
guessing what the products of organic reactions will be under
certain conditions."

The Martian surface is thought to be highly oxidising because it
is exposed to the Sun's ultraviolet rays. This high-energy
bombardment splits water molecules into hydrogen, and hydroxyl
radicals which can oxidise organic compounds directly or combine
to form hydrogen peroxide, a powerful oxidising agent.

Far from destroying all organic molecules, however, these agents
may react with some of them to form stable compounds, say Benner
and his colleagues. They considered how hydroxyl radicals and
peroxides would react with the five most abundant types of
organic compound found in meteorites, including aromatic
compounds such as naphthalene and kerogen, as well as alcohols
and simple hydrocarbons.

Although these compounds undergo different reactions, the
researchers found that the first relatively stable product of
each is a carboxylic acid. These could accumulate in the
soil-acetic acid, for example, should oxidise 100 times more
slowly than ethanol under the assumed Martian soil conditions.
Even complex carboxylic acids containing benzene rings should be
much more stable than anything preceding them, they say.

But even if carboxylic acids were abundant, the two Viking
landers would not have detected them. To look for organics, the
spacecraft heated a scoop of soil to 500 �C for 30 seconds and
ran the volatile products through a gas spectrometer. But
carboxylic acids take longer to vaporise.

"If they had heated it for 10 to 20 minutes, they would have
seen what we are predicting is there," Benner claims. And if
traces of organic compounds from non-living sources such as
meteorites can survive on Mars, then so might traces of
compounds created by life.

"The question of organics is not closed," agrees Christopher
McKay, a space scientist at NASA's Ames Research Center in
California. Even if the missing Polar Lander had reached its
destination safely, it would not have been able to heat its oven
for much longer than Viking, he says.

McKay says Martian soil samples should be brought back to Earth
so ideas like Benner's can be tested quickly. "I'm a big fan of
bringing the dirt home."


### Author: Jonathan Knight







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   Mar > Mar 19

                        Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars

From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:46:18 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:37:01 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars


 >Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:16:50 -0500
 >From: James S Mortellaro <docgripple@juno.com>
 >Subject: Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:51:56 -0600
 >>From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >
 >>>Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:52:25 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Steven L. Wilson, Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: NASA Pulls Back From Mars
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Friday, 17 March, 2000, 13:14 GMT

 >>>NASA Pulls Back From Mars

 >>>MPL report will make 'sober reading'

 >>>By BBC News Online science editor Dr David Whitehouse

 >>>"The search for life on the Red Planet will have to slow down,"
 >>>he said, "until people on Earth have worked out how to land on
 >>>Mars without crashing."

<snip>

James S Mortellaro responds:

 >Dear Lan, Steve, Errol and Listers;
 >
 >Back in 1966 I began a career in aerospace ...

<snip>

 >Gimme a break.  I retired just a few years ago after a not so
 >shabby career in aerospace and very high technology. NASA lost
 >the formula a while back.  It may have been just before
 >Challenger.  Likely, it was long before.  What NASA gave up was
 >the kind of _expensive_ but necessary quality control, not just
 >technology, but the level of care and concern that made NASA the
 >hero of this little boy watching "Futureland" on the ABC TV
 >"Walt Disney" shows and not even caring that my hero had worked
 >for Uncle Addy.

 >Face it.  It is just not there any more.  It's a sign of the
 >times. Give it up if it costs more.  Make it in a place where
 >they make less than a buck  a day and buy it from the Mongolians
 >after we GIVE them the  technology.

 >"Nuts!" to NASA and "Nuts!" to anyone applauding them for doing
 >what they should've done mucho years ago.  Pay attention to
 >detail and stand by until they got it right.

Would that be peanuts, pistachios or pecans? My favorite are
Brazil Nuts. :)

 >Oh, and learn the difference between a mile and a kilometer.
 >Cheeses, how could I forget?

I think the actual problem was caused by using Pound-Seconds
instead of Newton-Seconds. Not quite so obvious as kilometers
and miles.

If one is to be critical of NASA, lets hear more specific,
constructive criticism. Afterall, NASA has done more to further
space exploration to date than any other government or agency.

That is not to say that NASA doesn't have problems. Obviously
they do, but NASA is made up of imperfect humans and our space
technology is still immature. They admit this and are slowing
down to be sure of future successes. I applaud this.

Given the turnover in engineers over the last 30 years, I'm not
suprised if some of the lessons learned in the past need to be
relearned. But remember that successful Space Exploration is a
very complex, difficult, challenging and expensive task.

IMHO, we are fortunate not to have had more mishaps.

Tim Haley








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   Mar > Mar 20

                        Interstellar Travel Possible?

From: Steven L. Wilson <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:54:52 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:00:40 -0500
Subject: Interstellar Travel Possible?


Source: ASTRONOMY UNBOUND

http://www.herts.ac.uk/astro_ub/a47_ub.html">www.herts.ac.uk/natsci/
astro_ub/a47_ub.html

Astronomy


Interstellar Travel

----------------------------------------------------------------

The advent of interstellar travel would herald the changing of
astronomy from an observational science into an experimental
one! Future astronomers may prefer careers in the starfleet
rather than being stuck on Earth in Universities!

The problems involved in reaching the stars are almost
impossible to understate. Scientists have sent probes to eight
of the nine planets in our solar system and have developed the
fastest moving man made objects in the process. If those same
probes were to be launched to the stars, however, they would
take thousands of years to reach them! The distances to the
stars are huge So huge, in fact, that the light from the nearest
star to the Sun, a triple star system known as Alpha, Beta and
Proxima Centauri, takes over four and a quarter years to get
here. Since, according to special relativity, nothing in the
universe can travel faster than the speed of light, it would
seem that travel times with even the most advanced starships are
going to be extremely long indeed.

To overcome this, many scientists have thought that future
astronauts will have to be placed in suspended animation. This
means that their bodies' metabolisms will be slowed down so that
they fall unconscious. Computers will then monitor them
constantly and maintain their life signs so that their bodies
age very slowly. Many years will pass as the starship
automatically travels to its destination and, upon arrival, the
crew will be awoken. Such a concept is known as a sleeper ship.

An alternative to this idea is that the crew live normal lives
aboard the starship. This normal life will include having
children and as the original astronauts age and die, the
children will grow up and be trained to operate the starship. In
this way, when the ship finally arrives at its destination, a
whole new generation of humans, who were not even born when the
starship left Earth, will be running the ship. These designs are
known as generation ships.

Propulsion systems are still in the theoretical stage at the
moment. Chemical engines, such as are on the space shuttle, are
not powerful enough to provide the thrust necessary for
interstellar travel. One idea is that has nuclear bombs are
detonated behind the starship in order to push it along! Another
idea is to use powerful lasers and huge collecting mirrors. In
the same way that sailing ships use sails to collect the wind so
these starships would use mirrors to collect the photons of
light. The radiation pressure of the photons would then propel
the starship.

There are also highly exotic ideas which lie on the tantalising
fringes of modern theoretical physics. If the universe is a
multidimensional place with human beings only able to perceive
three dimensions, perhaps a way can be found to shortcut through
the 'higher' dimensions. These so-called worm holes are
currently having their mathematics calculated by the theorists
but if they can be utilised for travel then perhaps the entire
universe will become accessible to us. Travelling to different
planets may take no more time than travelling to different
countries does now!

http://www.herts.ac.uk/astro_ub/a47_ub.html">www.herts.ac.uk/natsci/
astro_ub/a47_ub.html</A>

----------------------------------------------------------------

ASTRONOMY UNBOUND

� Stuart Clark 1993                   Ian Williams 4/9/97 a47_ub








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   Mar > Mar 20

                        Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:22:40 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:02:49 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars

 >Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 19:39:44 -0500
 >From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Subject: Re: NASA Pulls Back From Mars
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >I think the point is that the Viking landers were designed,
 >built, and implemented by a system that was far more
 >comprehensive than was the case during the recent failures.

The problem was not technological; it was managerial. It should
be possible to replicate the success of the Viking missions of a
quarter century ago at a fraction of the cost with current
technology.

 >I think that it serves little purpose to point fingers and lay
 >blame,

I think it serves a very useful purpose to hold people
accountable who are responsible for failures that were totally
avoidable. That was certainly the case for the Climate Orbiter
if not the Polar Lander.

 >but NASA has learned a hard lesson that they can't manage
 >space programs on a limited budget.

What NASA may have learned that's most important is that JPL can
no longer be trusted to manage Mars missions. Reportedly, NASA
is going to hire a new director of robotic Mars missions who
will report to Goddard Spaceflight Center, not to JPL. The
release of the badly doctored "Face" image was an obvious
warning sign that JPL management was willing to cut corners to
suit its own agenda. Exactly the same attitude could well have
been the primary factor in the loss of the two Mars probes.

JPL is treated as some infallible priesthood whose proclamations
on Cydonia must be accepted without question, but when they goof
up big time, the excuse is "space flight is difficult and even
rocket scientists make mistakes sometimes because they're only
human." Yes, they're only human, and like all organizations
comprised of humans, they tend to become arrogant, complacent,
and self-serving when allowed to operate without any oversight
or public scrutiny for long periods of time. I think that's
exactly what has happened.









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   Mar > Mar 20

                             Re: Water on Mars?

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:52:27 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:10:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Water on Mars?


 >Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:39:13 -0500
 >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@temporaldoorway.com>
 >Subject: Re: Water on Mars?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >The resolution of the images is sufficient to identify the
 >geometry of the channels at a level which shows that they are
 >natural analogues to those on earth.

Very likely true.

 >In addition, the recent
 >photos of Cydonia have equally clearly shown those to be
 >geologic features - unusual ones taken out of context, but not
 >that strange compared to the rest of Mars.

This has not been shown to be true at all. The morphology of the
"Face" does not conform to that of any terrestrial analogue that
I am aware of. I posted a web page showing how the MGS Face
image (the raw image, not the phony JPL enhancement) compares to
aerial views of a mesa, which is the closest thing to a
terrestrial analogue, and to an eroded earthwork structure built
by Pre-Columbian American Indians. The web page is at

http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/mars/structcmp/structcmp.htm

I don't claim that the MGS image proves the Face is artificial,
but I don't see how anyone can seriously claim that it proves it
is not unless they come up with examples of natural structures
that are at least vaguely similar to the Face. Clearly, the Face
is much more similar in the symmetry and regularity of its
overall shape to the Indian structure than to the mesa. The
Indian mound, of course, lacks the features suggestive of a nose
and nostrils on the Face as shown by the MGS image.

 >Currently, liquid water cannot exist on the Martian surface,
 >and, indeed, it does not. Many of the remnant geologic features
 >on Mars which suggest the former presence of liquid water could
 >be formed by volcanically triggered melting of ice and
 >permafrost deposits.

That is the conventional wisdom, but Dr. Gil Levin, the
principal investigator of the Viking Labeled Release biological
experiment, thinks the conventional wisdom is wrong. The paper
that was published in the SPIE '98 proceedings explains why.
Levin put the paper on his web site at:

http://www.biospherics.com/mars/spie2/spie98.htm

Levin argues, in part, that results from the Pathfinder mission
indicate that water vapor tends to be concentrated near the
surface of Mars, not scattered throughout the martian atmosphere
as previously assumed, and that small amounts of liquid water
may be possible under some conditions, even today.









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                             Re: Water on Mars?

From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:08:33 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:15:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Water on Mars?


 >Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:39:13 -0500
 >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@temporaldoorway.com>
 >Subject: Re: Water on Mars?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:21:38 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Water on Mars?
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Given the NASA news reports about recently discovered canals on
 >>Mars, I would like to hear comments from the list on how these
 >>canals might have been formed.

 >There are no "canals" in the findings. Only eroded channels
 >produced by natural flood and water flow.

I don't see the difference but if you insist, then substitute
"channels" for "canals"

 >>I find it somewhat amusing that planetary scientists will, on
 >>the one hand, scoff at the interpretation of the Cydonia region
 >>as containing artificial structures, while on the other hand,
 >>exclaim that the valleys and crevices seen on the Martian
 >>surface must have been due to liquid water.

 >The presence of liquid water does not necessitate the
 >development of life or intelligence, so what's the problem?

You misunderstood me. My point is that both those who claim
that Cydonia is artificial and those who claim "channels" were
caused by water are basing their claims on visual evidence only.

It is amusing to me that planetary scientists scoff at
individuals who believe from observation that Cydonia is
artificial yet those same planetary scientists believe from
observation that water caused the "channels". I wasn't trying to
connect the two topics in any other way.

I do not profess that Cydonia is artificial nor that water
didn't cause the channels. But if water did cause the channels,
someone needs to explain in a convincing way how liquid water
could exist on a planet with such low mass.

There is a lot of speculation of how Mars was once like Earth. I
don't believe that is possible.

 >>In both cases, the human brain is trying to make sense out of
 >>visual clues. However, a little analysis is in order.

 >The resolution of the images is sufficient to identify the
 >geometry of the channels at a level which shows that they are
 >natural analogues to those on earth.

If I'm not mistaken, I think the "channels" on Mars are much
deeper and longer than those on Earth. So why do you say that
they are natural analogues to those on Earth?

 >>I have not heard of any planetary scientist consider that fact
 >>that the mass of Mars could never support the atmosphere
 >>required for the surface barometric pressure to allow liquid
 >>water to exist. Liquid water is extremely volatile, if it
 >>exists at all, at less than 10 millibar of pressure. That is a
 >>fact of thermodynamics. How could a "heavier" atmosphere exist
 >>without additional planetary mass?

 >In the early history of Mars, outgassing, through volcanism and
 >other processes, was probably sufficient to counteract
 >atmospheric escape. It has also been considered that impacts
 >such as that which formed the Argyre basin would potentially
 >eject a certain portion of that primordial atmosphere.

Probably sufficient? What does that mean?

How does ejection of a certain portion of the primordial
atmosphere increase the barometric pressure? I would think that
would lessen the barometric pressure.

 >Currently, liquid water cannot exist on the Martian surface,
 >and, indeed, it does not. Many of the remnant geologic features
 >on Mars which suggest the former presence of liquid water could
 >be formed by volcanically triggered melting of ice and
 >permafrost deposits.

True, but again at 10 millibar, liquid water isn't going to stay
around very long and certainly not long enough to cause the deep
long "channels" that has been observed.

 >I strongly recommend you read "Mars" (U of AZ, Kieffer et al)
 >and "The Surface of Mars" (Carr) before leaping to
 >conclusions about Martian features.

Thanks for the recomendation. I assume that it is written with
the same close minded viewpoint as those scientists who "know"
for a fact that water created the "channels".

BTW, I never leapt to conclusions. I simply wanted a specific
explanation of how liquid water could exist long enough to cause
the "channels". I still haven't heard one.

Given only observations from an orbiting satellite, who is it
really that is leaping to conclusions?

I apologize if my original post offended you in some way.

Cheers,

Tim Haley









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   Mar > Mar 20

                         Re: Is CNN Editing Reality?

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:17:02 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:17:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Is CNN Editing Reality?


 >Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:28:15 -0800
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: Is CNN Editing Reality?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Just a simple question here.

 >Is it entirely necessary to send men to Mars just to bring back
 >some precious rocks?

 >Rocks, sand and alluvia would speak volumes about the natural
 >history of Mars, perhaps even answering our questions about
 >possible life there... even if it is only ancient long extinct
 >microbes.

 >How hard can it be to devise design some sort of scooping
 >mechanism, on a lander that can take off again and bring the
 >evidence back?

 >As for the cost, its not even beer money when divided among
 >hundreds of millions of taxpayers.

That's exactly what NASA had planned to do. But since the
double-header calamaties of the Mars Polar Lander and the
Climate Orbiter, all such plans are on hold. The sample return
mission and most of the other scheduled Mars missions planned
for this decade will probably be delayed until the next decade.







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                             Re: Water on Mars?

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:09:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:22:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Water on Mars?


 >Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:39:13 -0500
 >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@temporaldoorway.com>
 >Subject: Re: Water on Mars?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:21:38 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Water on Mars?
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >>Given the NASA news reports about recently discovered canals on
 >>Mars, I would like to hear comments from the list on how these
 >>canals might have been formed.

 >There are no "canals" in the findings. Only eroded channels
 >produced by natural flood and water flow.

 >>I find it somewhat amusing that planetary scientists will, on
 >>the one hand, scoff at the interpretation of the Cydonia region
 >>as containing artificial structures, while on the other hand,
 >>exclaim that the valleys and crevices seen on the Martian
 >>surface must have been due to liquid water.

 >The presence of liquid water does not necessitate the
 >development of life or intelligence, so what's the problem?

 >>In both cases, the human brain is trying to make sense out of
 >>visual clues. However, a little analysis is in order.

 >The resolution of the images is sufficient to identify the
 >geometry of the channels at a level which shows that they are
 >natural analogues to those on earth. In addition, the recent
 >photos of Cydonia have equally clearly shown those to be
 >geologic features - unusual ones taken out of context, but not
 >that strange compared to the rest of Mars.

 >>I have not heard of any planetary scientist consider that fact
 >>that the mass of Mars could never support the atmosphere
 >>required for the surface barometric pressure to allow liquid
 >>water to exist.  Liquid water is extremely volatile, if it
 >>exists at all, at less than 10 millibar of pressure. That is a
 >>fact of thermodynamics. How could a "heavier" atmosphere exist
 >>without additional planetary mass?

 >In the early history of Mars, outgassing, through volcanism and
 >other processes, was probably sufficient to counteract
 >atmospheric escape. It has also been considered that impacts
 >such as that which formed the Argyre basin would potentially
 >eject a certain portion of that primordial atmosphere.

 >Currently, liquid water cannot exist on the Martian surface,
 >and, indeed, it does not. Many of the remnant geologic features
 >on Mars which suggest the former presence of liquid water could
 >be formed by volcanically triggered melting of ice and
 >permafrost deposits.

 >I strongly recommend you read "Mars" (U of AZ, Kieffer et al)
 >and "The Surface of Mars" (Carr) before leaping to conclusions
 >about Martian features.


What about photos of an active geyser of some kind, which I have
seen in a publication put out by Vincent Depietro?

My friend purchased the publication; I don't remember the title
of it, but there were some interesting surface shots of the
features of Mars, including what looks like a puff of smoke or
vapor.

Cordially,

Michel M. Deschamps







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   Mar > Mar 20

                        Disney's Alien Encounter Show

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:32:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:32:41 -0500
Subject: Disney's Alien Encounter Show




Source: http://www.hedweb.com/markp/disney.htm

MICKEY MOUSE CONQUERS THE MARTIANS

Disney tells us the truth about UFO`s.

By Mark Pilkington
markp@syzygy.co.uk

A glowing object flies across the television screen. "This is
not swamp gas. It is not a flock of birds. This is an actual
spacecraft piloted by alien intelligence - one sighting from
tens of thousands made over the last 50 years on virtually every
continent on the globe. Intelligent life from distant galaxies
is now attempting to make open contact with the human race and
tonight we'll show you the evidence."

So began Disney's hour long Alien Encounters special, aired
across America in February and March of 1995, written and
produced by Andy Thomas, a freelancer who has produced Cops and
a UFO "believer". This came soon after DisneyWorld Florida had
hosted a two week "UFO Summit", running from January 23 to
February 17, as part of the preparations for the opening of a
remodelled "New Tomorrowland". Strangely, although the summit
was organized by UFO magazine's Don Ecker and featured such
luminaries as Budd Hopkins, Clifford Stone and George Knapp,
there was no public announcement prior to the conference and no
announcements made to UFO groups or other media. That the "Alien
Encounters" show was aired so soon after the summit makes it
extremely unlikely that its purpose was to discuss the
programme's content, so this meeting and its intentions
currently remain a mystery of sorts; naturally this has had the
conspiracists ruminating furiously.

The TV special, hosted by Robert Urich (star of "Vegas") was
presented as a serious examination of the modern UFO mystery and
an expose of the U.S. government's cover-up of what it knows
about the phenomenon. It also served to promote the new "Alien
Encounters" attraction, which opens this summer at Disney World
Florida and, as far as I could make out, purports to simulate a
UFO encounter and abduction, presumably by the "Grays". What are
the motives behind this programme and the ride it is previewing?
How did Disney get involved in the murky world of UFOs? Is it
just cashing in on a phenomenon that is now attracting more
public and media attention; a subject already saturated with
magic and mystery and only too ripe for the Disney treatment? Or
is it somehow involved at a deeper level, breaking the waters
for something, or someone, else? A closer look at the programme
and, ideally, a ride on the simulation itself should give us
some clues1.

After the opening sequence the show opened with an introduction
by Disney co- chairman Michael Eisner himself, standing in front
of an official looking building, surrounded by heavily armed
paramilitary types. Saying something like "Let's take a look
inside...", he steps towards the building only to be halted by
the guards and their weapons; jokingly he says "Well, perhaps
not" and smiles conspiratorially. This ambiguous opening set the
tone well for what was to be an extremely ambiguous programme;
an intriguing mix of fact and fiction unhesitatingly presented
as hard truth.

Throughout the show Urich waved unconvincing-looking, Hollywood
style "government reports" in front of the camera and spoke
repeatedly of the government's "imminent" revelation of what it
knows about UFOs and of the "inevitable" encounters we were soon
to experience. Was he talking about the new ride? What does he,
or Disney, know that we don't? Much decent film footage was
shown; some old, some new, including the "Guardian" footage of a
landing UFO and its occupant skulking in a field. This Canadian
video actually showed a blurry model helicopter and a guy in a
bad mask. It was revealed to be a hoax in UFO Magazine
(co-sponsor of the Alien Summit at Disney World) and on Fox's
"Sightings", shown several months prior to the Alien Encounters
programme. Other footage of note was: previously unseen
(according to Urich) film of secret experimental disc-shaped
craft from the `50's and `60's, all made to look ridiculously
unflightworthy; mysterious lights zipping around over the White
House, presumably intended to be from the famous cases of 1952;
and, perhaps most interesting of all, a short scene of soldiers
turning over a ragged-looking silver disc-shaped object.

This fragment was shown more than once, in the context of the
Roswell incident and government cover-ups; it was black and
white footage, looked old and grainy and the military uniforms
looked like those used around WW2 (not that I'm an expert on the
subject, though I have seen plenty of war footage). The object
looked lightweight, easily lifted by a few men, and appeared to
be covered in torn tin foil, thus fitting descriptions made by
Roswell witnesses. At the time false rumours were being
circulated that Steven Spielberg had acquired military film
showing a crashed flying disc and alien bodies, and that he was
to use the footage in a film about Roswell and Area 51. In fact
the real story concerned a German researcher, Volker Spielberg,
and what was soon to become the infamous Santilli autopsy film.
Whether there is any sort of Disney connection between the
footage shown in the Alien Encounters programme and Santilli's
film is open to question, though the timing of the two releases
certainly coincided quite conveniently, presumably for both
parties.

Presented in Alien Encounters as proof of the government's
involvement in the UFO mystery were the hotly debated MJ-12
documents, the shaky foundations upon which so much of the
current cover-up mythology rests. During the programme no
arguments were presented against the documents' authenticity.
This is not the place to argue the pros and cons of the MJ-12
debate, save to say that there is plenty of evidence to support
both sides; to me, however, they are clearly classic
disinformation: parts of them do seem to mention real events,
whilst others are clearly faked. If the documents were
disseminated in the hope of sending the UFO community off on a
wild goose chase and discrediting those involved in the affair,
then they have proved at least partially successful. So why are
they being dredged up now by Disney?

So now that Alien Encounters has firmly established the reality
of UFOs, a context is set; a context of abduction and,
ultimately invasion. First of all we are told of bacteria and
microbes that have come to earth from space and have been
analyzed by scientists for years. At the time NASA had made no
mention of the Martian Microbes that hit the headlines in July
of this year (1996), and very few people knew of the meteorite's
existence. Is this what Disney was referring to? Urich, intercut
with scenes of hard working scientists, posited that these alien
microbes might take the form of an advanced guard, sending
information about us and our planet across the galaxies to be
picked up by whoever sent them.

So why were they sent? Budd Hopkins, interviewed next along with
some frightened abductees was here to tell us. The aliens, the
"Grays" as they are affectionately known, want our DNA, our
sperm, our ova, our blood; they retrieve these in a terrifying
manner, kidnapping us from our homes and treating us as we treat
lab rats and tagged dolphins. This is not a reassuring thing to
hear, especially from Walt Disney and the grandfatherly Budd
Hopkins. So where were John Mack, Whitley Strieber and all the
abductees who have developed meaningful relations with the
"visitors"? The people who see in them something spiritual,
transformative and beneficial to mankind. Are they just too
weird for Disney TV? Have they been duped into loving their
captors? Or do their ideas conflict with the official line? Who
are we supposed to believe here?

It seems then that Disney has the following to tell us: UFOs are
real; they are extraterrestrial spacecraft flown here by the
"Grays" who are conducting long-term genetic breeding
experiments on terrified, innocent human beings. The U.S.
government (whatever that is) has known about these beings since
at least the Roswell incident of 1947 and is about to make
public what it has kept secret since then. Talk about telling
them what they want to hear! Some of the evidence for these
claims was flimsy, such as the MJ-12 documents; some of it was
fake, such as the "Guardian"; other, new, evidence was presented
without introduction, let alone authentication. All right, so it
was a Disney programme aimed at the general public, not the UFO
buff, but why did it present the story that it did, and why did
it present it as the truth?

There could be a number of possible reasons for this. Least
worrying of these is that the whole programme was simply an
advert for the new "Alien Encounters" ride. Clearly part of it
was, they even share the same name, and moments from the ride
were shown repeatedly throughout the show. So Disney ask someone
to concoct a show about UFOs for them; this someone happens to
be an avid "believer" and isn't too discerning about their
sources or the information they uncover; they stick it all
together and, just to add flavor, make out that it's all
absolutely true. Tim Klein, senior producer for broadcast
marketing at Disney says; "The government has nothing to do with
the TV show. It`s strictly a vehicle to promote the new
attraction." So how did they get "secret" military footage?
Would the government allow Disney to show them as liars, as
having no control over an alien menace? Maybe it is going to
release its information and they thought Disney were the best
people to prepare us for it; maybe there is going to be a public
landing, as the show implies; maybe, maybe, maybe. In the two
years since the programme was aired the government has done
nothing but further deny that anything extraterrestrial happened
at Roswell; all we've had are some crummy microbes on a rock and
Independence Day.

So consider this as a less savory hypothesis, bearing in mind
that the best disinformation is supposed to contain parts of the
truth (like the MJ-12 documents). Disney wants to advertise its
new UFO ride so they turn to the government or military, amongst
others, for help. The government, or whoever is in charge of UFO
research, sees this as a great opportunity to get those pesky
researchers and UFO groups off its back by telling them that
everything they suspected was true after all. Hell, it could
then release a load of official-seeming papers, have the
ufologists jump around excitedly (having finally discovered the
truth as they wanted to hear it), and take a well earned break
from covering up whatever it is they really know- or don't, as
the case may be. The government is happy, most of the UFO
community is happy and Disney is happy because lots of people
want to go on their new ride.

Then there is the paranoid approach. Who better would there be
than Disney to create fake crashed UFO and autopsy footage,
complete with historic US president; or to stage some sort of
mass, public, UFO landing, broadcast around the world as the
real thing and causing temporary global hysteria. So the
government is "forced" to reveal all its UFO (dis)information
and so once again almost everybody is happy. For a while
everyone would stay quiet, leaving them to get on with whatever
it is they are doing. Maybe they want us to be afraid of the
aliens, maybe that suits their needs too. After all isn't their
ultimate goal just to keep us under control? And what better
control tool is there than fear? Would we still be afraid if we
knew the whole truth? Probably. There's a lot of scope for good
religion in the UFO mythos, and what better tool is there to
control the masses than fear and religion combined?

Perhaps the answer will come as a mixture of all the above.
Really all we can do is wait and see, and maybe even then we
will never know the full situation. Whatever the case, the
media's love affair with UFOs is on again; not a week goes past
without some new segment or special on our TV sets. Bill
Clinton`s proposal to declassify all government material over 25
years old may also prove interesting. I suspect that we`re going
to be seeing and hearing a lot more of our mysterious flying
friends. The truth is certainly out there, but I doubt it`s at
Disneyworld.

---

1 Since most of this piece was written, over a year ago, I have
spoken to a well known UFO researcher who has been on the Alien
Encounters ride; his experience bore no relation to that
reported by the majority of UFO abductees.

Sources:

UFO Magazine (U.S)
UFO Magazine (U.K.)
Alien Encounters.- Disney TV Special
The Orlando Sentinel, Florida USA, May 3, 1995

  Screen Memories
Mark Pilkington
markp@syzygy.co.uk
Magonia





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   Mar > Mar 20

                  Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:30:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:35:51 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!

 >Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:02:30 -0600
 >From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:08:11 -0700
 >>From: Patrick Bailey <pgb@padrak.com>
 >>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights Were _Not_ flares!
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

The Phoenix researchers had the opportunity to prove or the
flare theory. They could have taken home video of the flares, if
they were visible. I have heard that there was professional
video of the flares. This is not comparable ($50,000 camera does
better than a $500 camera). Don't know whether a good experiment
was carried out.








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   Mar > Mar 20

                             Re: Dust Bunny Hunt

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 01:19:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:38:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Dust Bunny Hunt


Hi All,

Sorry for the godawful delay in getting this thing rolling but I
have been consulting with Nancy Turner (one of the folks
involved in the original study) and I wanted to try to duplicate
the procedures they followed as closely as possible. As a result
of those conversations the following changes have been made to
the procedures I outlined in an earlier post.

1. Q-tips (instead of Scotch tape) will be used to gather the
    samples.

2. Dust samples (Q-tips) will then be placed into baggies,
    labelled, sealed with tape, and sent directly to Nick
    Balaskas.

3. Pertinent information will be logged onto a form that
    will be e-mailed to you (you can print it out on your end)
    which is to be submitted along with the samples.

Easy as pie.


Your dust samples can be mailed to Nick at:

Nick Balaskas
Physics and Astronomy
York University
132 Lumbers Building
4700 Keele Street
Toronto, Ontario, Canada  M3J 1P3

FAX: (416) 736-5516

The final list for the 'control group' participants is:

  1. Jan Aldrich
  2. Chris Rutkowski
  3. Sean Jones
  4. Mike Woods
  5. Rebecca Schatte
  6. Todd Lemire
  7. Brian Cuthbertson
  8. GT McCoy
  9. Peter Brookesmith
10. S. Miles
11. Laura Miller
12. Mark Cashman
13. Luis R. Gonzales Manso
14. Errol Bruce-Knapp
15. Stanton Friedman

I will contact the abductees and ask them to begin taking and
submitting their samples. Look out for an e-mail (by Tuesday)
containing a copy of the information form which is to accompany
your submission of dust samples. I won't be sending out
collection kits as they are not necessary. The items you will
need are all 'household items' and should be readily available
to all.

I want to thank you all for your time and cooperation. It is
appreciated. Who knows? Maybe something 'interesting' will come
out of it! :)

Nick, get ready. After they receive the info forms you should
begin getting samples in the mail.  :) Let's focus on looking
for the 'glass-like beads' that the original study discovered.

Any questions? Feel free to contact me privately at:

jvif@spacelab.net

Regards to all,

John Velez

________________________________________________
                         AIC - Abduction Information Center -
                        www.spacelab.net/~jvif/default.htm
                                    jvif@spacelab.net
  "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________







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   Mar > Mar 20

               DESTINATION: SPACE Chat with Carlotto & Nerbun

From: Yvonne_Hedenland <Yvonne_Hedenland@email.msn.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:36:48 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:16:46 -0500
Subject: DESTINATION: SPACE Chat with Carlotto & Nerbun


D E S T I N A T I O N:  S P A C E Chat with Dr. Mark Carlotto and
Peter Nerbun

D E S T I N A T I O N:  S P A C E
http://www.solarcafe.com/destinationspace
Beyond Mission to Mars
Chat with Dr. Mark Carlotto and Peter Nerbun
Tuesday (March 21) at 6pm, PT

Mission to Mars has brought new awareness to the Cydonia
anomalies.  But what's the reality behind the infamous Face?

According to mathematical computationist Peter Nerbun, the Mars
Global Surveyor will be in position to acquire new images of the
Cydonia region on March 22nd and again on June 17th and
September 13th of this year.

JPL/NASA's website has promised:

"The spacecraft will fly directly over the Cydonia region, where
enigmatic features were observed in the Viking mission, a few
times during its mapping mission. The Mars Global Surveyor
project will announce these imaging opportunities in advance and
will post the resultant images on the Internet."

Join imaging expert, Dr. Mark Carlotto - author of The Martian
Enigmas and co-author of The Case for the Face - along with
Peter Nerbun for a special chat to discuss Nerbun's computations
as well as what imaging possibilities that lie ahead for MGS and
Martian science.

Please note: this chat will be taking place during the actual
imaging session up on Mars, according to Nerbun.

This chat is accessible at:

http://www.solarcafe.com/destinationspace

by using either our built in chat page or any IRC client. The
chat server name is chat.solarcafe.com and the channel/room name
is #planetarium


We look forward to seeing you online.










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   Mar > Mar 20

                             Implant Technology

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:58:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:18:45 -0500
Subject: Implant Technology


Got your implant yet?

http://www.digitalangel.net/

Don't be the last one on your block to get your Digital Angel!

Terry








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                   Cheaper UFO-Like Satellite Substitutes?

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:33:21 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:00:10 -0500
Subject: Cheaper UFO-Like Satellite Substitutes?


Hi everyone.

Motorola, the company which owns the 66 operational Iridium
satellites (and a few more in-orbit spares) has thrilled many
observers of the twilight skies with the frequent very bright
flashes their satellites produce by reflected sunlight. No
doubt, some of these flashes were sometimes mistaken as UFOs.

Now this private comapny, which has recently filed for
bankruptcy, plans to do something really incredible. It is
making plans to de-orbit all its satellites within the next two
years or so, a spectacular firey end to their multi-billion
dollar investment. There must be good business reasons for
doing this but to me it doesn't make sense, anymore then when
our Canadian Government ordered the destruction of the AVRO
Arrows, the best planes in the world at the time and only
outperformed by a few, four decades later.

Last weekend I was reading the April 2000 issue of Popular
Science. This issue makes mention of a different private
company, Sky Station International, and their plans to float
giant solar-electric helium filled airships 13 miles above all
the world's major cities, with the first 500 foot long airship
expected to be in the air by 2002. We may soon have bright
football shaped UFO-like objects to amaze us during twilight to
replace the brief flashes of light from the Iridium satellites.
Unless their presence scares off real UFOs, future UFO sightings
over cities will likely be attributed to sightings of these
giant airships.

Nick Balaskas









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   Mar > Mar 21

                 Re: Cheaper UFO-Like Satellite Substitutes?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:26:34 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:39:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Cheaper UFO-Like Satellite Substitutes?


 >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:33:21 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
 >Subject: Cheaper UFO-Like Satellite Substitutes?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hi everyone.

 >Motorola, the company which owns the 66 operational Iridium
 >satellites (and a few more in-orbit spares) has thrilled many
 >observers of the twilight skies with the frequent very bright
 >flashes their satellites produce by reflected sunlight. No
 >doubt, some of these flashes were sometimes mistaken as UFOs.

 >Now this private comapny, which has recently filed for
 >bankruptcy, plans to do something really incredible. It is
 >making plans to de-orbit all its satellites within the next two
 >years or so, a spectacular firey end to their multi-billion
 >dollar investment. There must be good business reasons for
 >doing this but to me it doesn't make sense, anymore then when
 >our Canadian Government ordered the destruction of the AVRO
 >Arrows, the best planes in the world at the time and only
 >outperformed by a few, four decades later.

 >Last weekend I was reading the April 2000 issue of Popular
 >Science. This issue makes mention of a different private
 >company, Sky Station International, and their plans to float
 >giant solar-electric helium filled airships 13 miles above all
 >the world's major cities, with the first 500 foot long airship
 >expected to be in the air by 2002. We may soon have bright
 >football shaped UFO-like objects to amaze us during twilight to
 >replace the brief flashes of light from the Iridium satellites.
 >Unless their presence scares off real UFOs, future UFO sightings
 >over cities will likely be attributed to sightings of these
 >giant airships.


Hello Nick:

As I understand it, the bankrupt Iridium venture is going to use
retro rockets (or something similar) to de-orbit the satellites.
Not as a cost saving measure, but simply to cut down on the space
junk.

It is rare for a bankrupt company to clean up after itself in
such a spectacular fashion.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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                           Re: Implant Technology

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:43:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:41:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Implant Technology


 >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:58:22 -0500
 >From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
 >Subject: Implant Technology
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Got your implant yet?

 >http://www.digitalangel.net/

 >Don't be the last one on your block to get your Digital Angel!

 >Terry

Hi Terry,

The implications of this technology are staggering. Whole books
could be written about it and it still wouldn't begin to scratch
the surface. Because there is 'so much' to this topic I will aim
my bullets carefully.  :)

At the website it says:

 >Potential Uses of Digital Angel�

 >Although still in the early developmental stage, we believe
 >Digital Angel� could have an array of beneficial potential
 >applications:

And an "array" of negative ones as well! But this is a 'sales
pitch' and they don't want you think about that.

 >provide a tamper-proof means of locating and
 >identifying individuals for e-business and e-commerce
 >security; locate individuals, including children, who are lost
 >or who have been abducted; monitor the medical conditions
 >of at-risk patients; track and locate military, diplomatic and
 >other essential government personnel; determine the location
 >or the authenticity of valuable property; track the whereabouts
 >of wilderness sports enthusiasts (mountain climbers, hikers,
 >skiers, etc.).

All of which are noble and excellent applications. Makes you
stop and wonder what a 'Military mind' could do with such
technology.  :)

John Velez, unwitting Alien 'Digital Angel' customer.





________________________________________________
                         AIC - Abduction Information Center -
                        www.spacelab.net/~jvif/default.htm
                                    jvif@spacelab.net
"Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________





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   Mar > Mar 21

             Extraterrestrial Gases Found In Buckyballs On Earth

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:17:51 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:43:49 -0500
Subject: Extraterrestrial Gases Found In Buckyballs On Earth


Hi everyone.

Carbon atoms can be packed together in a few different ways to
form solid materials with great variations in their chemical and
physical properties. For example, pure carbon is found in nature
as charcoal, graphite and diamond. One newly discovered and
surprisingly very different way carbon atoms can be arranged
together is as "buckyballs" which have hollow centers. Now
scientists inform us that extraterrestrial gases have been found
trapped inside some of these buckyballs. See the forwarded
e-mail from NASA's Ames Research Center below for details.

This is just the latest of many such new discoveries where
scientists have concluded that the extraterrestrial hypothesis
is the best explanation for what they have observed. Maybe if
all ufologists make an effort to share more of their UFO
observations with scientists, I would not be surprised if they
agree with us that many mysterious UFO cases can also be best
explained as extraterrestrial too.

When one carefully reads the last few paragraphs of this
forwared e-mail and sees how little science really knows about
anything, including the early history of the Earth and our
origins, even this extraterrestrial explanation for the
unexpected gases found in buckyballs will likely turn out to be
the wrong anyways.

Reality is much stranger than what we can even imagine.

Nick Balaskas

-----

John Bluck
NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Phone:  650/604-5026, E-mail:  jbluck@mail.arc.nasa.gov

Cheryl Ernst
University of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI
Phone:  808-956-5941, E-mail:  ernst@hawaii.edu

RELEASE:  00-20AR
RESEARCHERS DISCOVER EXTRATERRESTRIAL GASES IN BUCKYBALLS

Extraterrestrial gases, including helium, are trapped in
"buckyball" molecules in a layer of sedimentary clay found in
many places on Earth, according to a paper to be published March
28, 2000, in the Proceedings of the National Academy of
Sciences.

The discovery provides a new tool for tracing asteroid and comet
impacts in Earth's geological and biological records. A
University of Hawaii geochemist and her colleagues, including a
NASA scientist, found gases that did not originate on Earth
inside buckyballs, or fullerene carbon molecules.

The fullerene molecule is a hollow, cage-like structure
typically made of 60 or more carbon atoms; it is also referred
to as a "buckyball," in honor of Buckminster Fuller, designer of
the geodesic dome that resembles the molecule.

"We discovered extraterrestrial noble gases trapped inside
buckyballs in a one-inch thick sedimentary layer of clay that is
exposed at several locations on Earth," said Ted Bunch, a
scientist at NASA's Ames Research Center in California's Silicon
Valley. "The buckyballs containing the gases arrived on Earth
about 65 million years ago during an asteroid impact that
scientists theorize ended the age of the dinosaurs. The clay
layer that formed from fallout of the impact debris was globally
distributed," Bunch explained.

Luann Becker, of the University of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI; Robert
Poreda, of the University of Rochester, Rochester, NY; and Ted
Bunch of NASA Ames, discovered the extraterrestrial gases in the
fullerenes. An advance copy of the article will be posted on the
Internet on March 21 at

http://www.pnas.org

"Helium from different sources on Earth, like our atmosphere or
the emissions from volcanoes, have a very different isotopic
signature from the helium in a meteorite," Becker said. An
isotopic signature is the ratio of the isotopes of an element;
for example, terrestrial helium consists of a small amount of
helium 3 (whose nucleus has two protons and one neutron), and
mostly helium 4 that has 2 protons and 2 neutrons. Cosmic helium
is mostly helium 3.

"The helium we found within the fullerene cages of Australia's
Murchison meteorite, for example, is similar to the helium that
existed when our Solar System first formed," Becker stated. That
finding points to a cosmic source for the fullerenes, the
researchers say. In contrast, molecules formed in the high
pressure and temperature of an earthly impact or the heat of
wildfires that followed would have encapsulated terrestrial
helium, according to the researchers.

They say the finding also supports the theory that atmospheric
gases and organic compounds arrived on the Earth's surface
during asteroid and comet strikes early in the planet's history
when impacts were very numerous. The discovery relates to
previous work by Becker and Bunch, published in Nature in July
1999 that first identified naturally occurring fullerenes in a
meteorite. The scientists found significant quantities of very
large fullerene molecules, some containing as many as 400 carbon
atoms, in samples from the 4.6-billion-year-old Allende
meteorite that landed in Mexico three decades ago.

The subsequent work examined several Cretaceous/Tertiary
boundary clay sediments distributed worldwide, including
deposits in Denmark, New Zealand and North America. In each
case, the researchers found fullerenes that encapsulated noble
gases with unmistakable extraterrestrial and possibly
extra-solar isotopic signatures.

The scientists examined the one-inch clay layer because it is a
well-studied sediment that contains extraterrestrial iridium and
highly shocked minerals resulting from an asteroid impact 65
million years ago. A highly shocked mineral is one that has
experienced temperatures of more than 2,000 C and pressures of
about 400,000 atmospheres from impact shock. The clay layer
documents a period of abrupt change in biological evolution,
including mass extinction of the dinosaurs, now generally
attributed to the impact of a carbonaceous asteroid with the
Earth.

Becker said she hopes to expand the research to examine other
periods of mass extinction such as the even more devastating
event that formed the 250-million-year-old Permian/Triassic
layer of sediment. She added that she hopes to determine if
impacts with Earth trigger global change, including whether
fullerenes of extraterrestrial origin delivered gases and carbon
necessary to establish life on Earth.

"We now have a powerful new tracer to look at sediment layers
very carefully," Becker said. "It opens new possibilities in
looking at the problem of how planetary atmospheres evolved and
maybe even how life evolved on Earth and perhaps on other moons
and planets." She said she also hopes to work with astronomers
to study the formation of fullerenes. "We have yet to learn why
these things are there and what they tell us about carbon in the
universe. We need to figure out how to establish their existence
and how to search for it."

Grants from the NASA Cosmochemistry and Exobiology programs
supported the research.

<snip>

----







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                  P3N: DoD Search A Sham Declares UFO Group

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:42:12 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:45:41 -0500
Subject: P3N: DoD Search A Sham Declares UFO Group


Greetings list -

From: http://www.caus.org/pn032000b.htm

P3N: PRESS RELEASE: March 20, 2000

Department Of Defense Search A Sham Declares UFO Group

In the ongoing Phoenix, Arizona federal lawsuit, Citizens
Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS) vs. the Department of Defense (DoD),
Judge Stephen M. McNamee had directed that the DoD provide CAUS
with the details of its search for information about a football
field-sized triangular aerial object that has been seen by
thousands of witnesses for the past twenty years.

On March 17th, the DoD provided that information, submitting
three affidavits detailing its search within the Joint Chiefs of
Staff (JCS) and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency
(DARPA), two of the three components searched within the DoD for
the requested information.

Though the Department of Defense had previously stated that they
conducted a computerized search of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
using "unique identifiers and keywords," the affidavits
submitted on Friday referred to the ordinary terms of "UFO,
unidentified flying object, spacecraft, alien craft, and flying
saucer" as well as some innocuous terms as "big, large, hover,
soundless, corner and underneath."

"Not only was the DoD search inadequate and unreasonable, it was
a sham. No wonder they conveniently omitted these terms in their
original affidavits" declared Peter A. Gersten, attorney and
Executive Director for Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, the UFO
activist group known for its use of the Freedom of Information
Act in its pursuit to end all secrecy surrounding these
enigmatic craft. "This is proof that the DoD treated the CAUS
request as a typical request for UFO information and did not
take it seriously."

Even the e-mails sent to the 200 employees of DARPA, Gersten
found lacking. "Though the e-mails did include the description
of the craft, it did not include either the sketches nor the
photo that were also included in the original CAUS request.
Instead each employee was told that the photo and sketches were
available 'if you need to see them'" stated Gersten. "It is very
difficult for me to believe that not one past or present DARPA
project even resembled the object described."

None of the responses from DARPA employees were included with
the latest affidavits. There was also no mention of the
procedure used to search the Defense & Space Operations
Division, the third component searched.

Gersten told P3N that he intends to file a response to the new
affidavits asking Judge McNamee to deny the Department of
Defense's Motion for Summary Judgment. "It is obvious that there
are several issues that still should be decided. To dismiss this
lawsuit now, knowing that no reasonable search was ever done,
would be an injustice and an insult to the spirit and intent of
the Freedom of Information Act as well as all the people who are
seeking the truth about these strange objects in our skies."

Gersten will also be asking for another court appearance to
argue his latest objections.

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com








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   Mar > Mar 21

                  Re: C-E: And Now, 'The Rest Of The Story

From: Jsmortell@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:42:40 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:42:38 -0500
Subject: Re: C-E: And Now, 'The Rest Of The Story



 >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:22:25 -0600
 >From: Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
 >Subject: And Now, 'The Rest Of The Story'
 >To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM


 >Here's something everyone should know:

 >On July 8, 1947, witnesses claim a spaceship with five aliens
 >aboard crashed on a sheep-and-cattle ranch outside Roswell, NM,
 >an incident they say has been covered up by the military.

 >On March 31, 1948, exactly nine months after that day,
 >Al Gore was born.

 >That clears up a lot of things.


Dear Francis, EBK, Listers and other entities lurking:

Thank you for sharing this.  As a perceived abductee, I have
often observed what I call the "Nodding Action" of earthbound
reptiles.

I have _not_ noticed this effect in use by the reptilian dirt
bags that I have been with... but I strongly suspect they do the
same thing as our earthly variety, they just do it behind our
backs.

As an example, observe lizards, specifically.  They perform this
type of activity. You will notice that the first thing a lizard
will do in order to establish it's territory, is to nod it's
head up and down rapidly.  This is done in order to establish
that "This is MY territory, Bubba!  I am the boss here."

Observe that Gore, whenever he sits or stands behind the
president, conitnuously nods his heaad up and down in agreement
with every single thing Mr. President has to say.  What does
this say about the president?  Has anyone done an analysis on
_his_ birth date? Did he get born in a highly active UFO place
and time?  Well, I certainly think research should direct it's
activity to determine the answers to this question. Co-inky
dance, or corn spirits?

We have this to say about that... "Finally, the _TRUTH_ "
reviled, revealed, sorry.

Read my latest book, "Gesundt on Alien Politics,"  Published on
Canal Street by the same people that bring you Gripple Drip in
the new, convenient intravenous package.  Available now for only
$19.95.  And if you act _now_ we'll send you a three litre bag
of IV Gripple Drip, with all the hardware to give yourself a
quick and easy three day joy ride through your inner space.
Compliments of Gesundt Institoots worldwide.

J. Jaime loves each and every one of yous.







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   Mar > Mar 21

                             Re: FUFOR Web Site

From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:12:19 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:45:45 -0500
Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site


 >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:02:35 -0500
 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Subject: FUFOR Web Site
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Following a month of frustration, the Fund for UFO Research web
 >site is back on line.  However, the URL has been changed to

 >www.fufor.com

 >To make a long story short, the Domain Name that had been
 >registered (fufor.org) apparently lapsed at the same time as the
 >provider contract and became available before we had realized
 >what happened.  When I attempted to re-register the name I found
 >that a speculator had grabbed it several days before and
 >fufor.org was no longer available.  We may attempt to re-secure
 >that name, but the process could drag on for a while and we
 >wanted to get the site back up and running as quickly as we
 >could.

Sorry to hear of the problems.

This just brought to mind that, in the past, I know certain
'skeptic' groups have bought up domains of sites that were even
the least 'pro-ufo' as soon as they lapsed.  Following that they
simply turned the site into a link to their own org/site,
thereby locking the name up and funneling folks into their own
lil propoganda booth.

I'm not saying this is what happened to you all, but it wouldn't
shock me.  How 'skeptic' groups that claim to push critical
thinking and rationalism can 'sucker folks' in (and in my view,
basically censor others) like this is beyond me.

If anyone has any first hand experience with this sort of thing,
I'm sure more than a few of us would be ready to write a nasty
letter to the domain predators responsible.

Good luck with getting everything sorted out.

Best,

Tim








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   Mar > Mar 21

               Re: Missoulian Claims UFO Sighting During WWII

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:44:07 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:47:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Missoulian Claims UFO Sighting During WWII


Greetings list -

From: http://www.msnbc.com/local/KECI/45641.asp

Missoulian claims UFO sighting during WWII
NBC Montana

MISSOULA � What would it take to make you a believer in
unidentified flying objects? For some, it may come down to
actually having to see one. A strange "sighting" made a believer
out of one Missoula resident.

It�s been nearly sixty years since that night during World War
II when Wayne Nordby stood outside the barracks at the airforce
base in Salina, Kansas, and looked up into the night sky. That
was the night he saw an unidentified flying object.

Wayne Nordby, a WWII veteran, said, "And I know I was sworn to
secrecy when I came out of the service not to talk about things,
and I haven�t."

After the war, Nordby made a life in Montana as an upholsterer.
He raised a family, and retired. These days he�s slowed a bit,
and uses oxygen tubes. Now, he has more time to read, paint, and
listen to radio talk shows about the paranormal. He also has
plenty of time to reflect.

Wayne Nordby said, "The world is not quite everything that we
see."

Recently, Nordby read a letter to the editor in the Missoulian
about the existence of aliens.

He called the letter�s author, Michael Bishop (a UFO
researcher), and shared his experience. Michael Bishop said,
"Hey, boys and girls, they�re real, and they�re here."

Recently, a meeting was arranged between the two men.

A certified hypno-therapist, Bishop guided Nordby into a relaxed
state, to regress back to the night of the sighting.

During this session, Wayne Nordby said, "It�s not quite dark
because the light from the base is shining up against the clouds
which are very low, there is a fine mist blowing, as we look up
we see this huge, cigar-shaped object. There�s no controls in
the back end, there�s no bathtub underneath, I can�t see any
lights."

Nordby said the object was three times larger than a B-29. At
the time, the B-29 was the largest aircraft the military had.
According to Nordby, this was no B-29.

Wayne Nordby said, "It didn�t fit any category that I could
make. And I was a trained observer."

Although he hasn�t seen a UFO since world war two, that one time
was enough to make him a believer.

Wayne Nordby, "I�ll tell you it will leave you with some
impressions that the world is not quite what it seems."

UFO classes were scheduled last year at both the University of
Montana Experimental College and the Willard adult education,
but both were cancelled for lack of interest.

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com









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   Mar > Mar 21

                      Re: Interstellar Travel Possible?

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 1956 22:58:55 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:50:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Interstellar Travel Possible?


 >Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:54:52 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Steven L. Wilson <Ndunlks@aol.com>
 >Subject: Interstellar Travel Possible?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Source: ASTRONOMY UNBOUND

 >http://www.herts.ac.uk/astro_ub/a47_ub.html">www.herts.ac.uk/natsci/
 >astro_ub/a47_ub.html

 >Astronomy

 >Interstellar Travel

 >----------------------------------------------------------------

 >The advent of interstellar travel would herald the changing of
 >astronomy from an observational science into an experimental
 >one! Future astronomers may prefer careers in the starfleet
 >rather than being stuck on Earth in Universities!

<snip>

 >An alternative to this idea is that the crew live normal lives
 >aboard the starship. This normal life will include having
 >children and as the original astronauts age and die, the
 >children will grow up and be trained to operate the starship. In
 >this way, when the ship finally arrives at its destination, a
 >whole new generation of humans, who were not even born when the
 >starship left Earth, will be running the ship. These designs are
 >known as generation ships.

<snip>

 >There are also highly exotic ideas which lie on the tantalising
 >fringes of modern theoretical physics. If the universe is a
 >multidimensional place with human beings only able to perceive
 >three dimensions, perhaps a way can be found to shortcut through
 >the 'higher' dimensions. These so-called worm holes are
 >currently having their mathematics calculated by the theorists
 >but if they can be utilised for travel then perhaps the entire
 >universe will become accessible to us. Travelling to different
 >planets may take no more time than travelling to different
 >countries does now!

 >http://www.herts.ac.uk/astro_ub/a47_ub.html">www.herts.ac.uk/natsci/
 >astro_ub/a47_ub.html</A>

 >----------------------------------------------------------------

 >ASTRONOMY UNBOUND

 >� Stuart Clark 1993                   Ian Williams 4/9/97 a47_ub


The above leads me to think that, before we master wormholes,
our first ambassadors to space civilization may be young'ns who
never lived a second on Earth, the planet they represent. I
guess they'll show the aliens the same multidimensional movies
and synapse stimulating experiences that they grew up with. They
learned the Stories of the Earthlings from their predecessors
and will pass the stories down to the aliens.

Plus, a heavy dose of our greatest music. A greater compilation
than was sent into space previously. However, the Beatles may
have reached extraterrestrial aliens over the years. That would
be good for all our evolution. But generation ships, ambassadors
from a planet they have never been to, that is truly bizarre.

Josh









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   Mar > Mar 21

                    Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article

From: James Oberg <JamesOberg@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:41:24 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:55:10 -0500
Subject: Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article

A real NASA coverup!!!


NASA knew Mars Polar Lander doomed
United Press International - March 21, 2000 15:01

By James Oberg, UPI Space Writer

HOUSTON, March 21 (UPI) -- The disappearance of NASA's Mars
Polar Lander last December was no surprise to space officials,
UPI has learned.

Prior to its arrival at Mars, a review board had already
identified a fatal design flaw with the braking thrusters that
doomed the mission, but NASA withheld this conclusion from the
public.

The probe was lost while attempting to land near the martian
south pole on December 3. Two small microprobes which had
deployed separately also were never heard from again.

It was the second expensive setback for American interplanetary
exploration in less than three months. On September 23, a
companion probe had been destroyed when a navigation error sent
it skimming too deeply into the atmosphere of Mars.

Following these failures, NASA commissioned several expert
panels to review the accidents and recommend improvements in
NASA procedures.

A source close to the panel probing the second accident has told
UPI that its conclusions are "devastating" to NASA's reputation.
Unlike the previous accident, where management errors merely
prevented the recognition of other human errors, in this case it
was a management misjudgment which caused the fatal flaw in the
first place.

"I'm as certain as I can be that the thing blew up," the source
concluded.

As explained privately to UPI, the Mars Polar Lander vehicle's
braking thrusters had failed acceptance testing during its
construction. But rather than begin an expensive and
time-consuming redesign, an unnamed space official simply
altered the conditions of the testing until the engine passed.

"That happened in middle management," the source told UPI. "It
was done unilaterally with no approval up or down the chain of
command."

The Mars Polar Lander employed a bank of rocket engines which
use hydrazine fuel. The fuel is passed through metal grates
which cause it to decompose violently, creating the thrust used
by the engines.

These metal grates are called "catalyst beds," or "cat beds."
Their purpose is to initiate the explosive chemical reaction in
the hydrazine.

"They tested the cat bed ignition process at a temperature much
higher than it would be in flight," UPI's source said. This was
done because when the cat beds were first tested at the low
temperatures predicted after the long cruise from Earth to Mars,
the ignition failed or was too unstable to be controlled.

So the test conditions were changed in order to certify the
engine performance. But the conditions then no longer
represented those most likely to occur on the real space flight.

Following the September loss of the first spacecraft due to
management errors, NASA had initiated a crash review of the Mars
Polar Lander to identify any similar oversights. According to
UPI's source, the flaws in the cat bed testing were uncovered
only a few days before the landing was to occur on December 3.

By then it was too late to do anything about it.

Garbled rumors of some temperature-related design flaw
circulated in the days before the landing attempt. However, as
in the September case when space officials possessed terrifying
indications of imminent failure even before the arrival at Mars,
NASA made no public disclosure of these expectations.

The Mars Polar Lander investigation team has also reportedly
identified a second fatal design flaw that would have doomed the
probe even if the engines had functioned properly.

The three landing legs of the probe contain small microswitches
which are triggered when the legs touch the surface. This signal
commands the engines to cease firing.

Post-accident tests have shown that when the legs are initially
unfolded during the final descent, springs push them so hard
that they "bounce" and trigger the microswitches by accident. As
a result, the computer receives what it believes are indications
of a successful touchdown, and it shuts off the engines.

Since this false signal actually occurs high in the air, the
engine shutdown automatically leads to a free fall and
destructive high-speed impact.

Ground testing prior to launch apparently never detected this
because each of the tests was performed in isolation from other
tests. One team verified that the legs unfolded properly.
Another team verified that the microswitches functioned on
landing.

No integrated end-to-end test was performed due to budget and
time constraints. But UPI has been privately told that "this has
been reproduceable on a regular basis" in post-flight tests.

Perhaps by coincidence, in a safety memo to NASA employees
distributed on March 20, NASA administrator Dan Goldin stressed
"the importance of adequate testing." Reliability, he said,
"requires well-thought-out verification and test activities."

Goldin explicitly described the adverse impact of "our
difficulties with recent failures in late stages of development
-- such as system integration and testing -- and during mission
operations." The memo did not specifically attribute these
problems to the Mars failures.

The Mars Polar Lander also deployed two small "penetrator"
probes, both called Deep Space 2. They were designed to fall
freely through the thin atmosphere, hit the ground at about 200
meters per second (400 miles per hour), and come to rest deep in
the soil.

All attempts to pick up radio signals from these probes, relayed
via another spacecraft already orbiting Mars, also failed.
Reportedly, the review board believes that the probe radio
equipment could not have survived the impact.

Alternately, the probes may simply have hit ground too rocky for
survival. Engineers also suspected that their batteries, which
had been charged before launch almost a year earlier and not
checked since then, might not have retained sufficient power.

"Nobody in the know really expected either of the penetrators to
work," UPI's primary source said.

Dr. Carl Pilcher, head of NASA's planetary program, talked with
space scientists at last week's Lunar and Planetary Science
Conference in Houston. While expressing disappointment at the
setbacks and skepticism of ambitious flight schedules -- "Our
ambition exceeded our grasp," he told the scientists -- he would
not discuss the results of the accident investigation.

The conclusions, he did admit, "make sober reading." The
investigation was led by Tom Young, a former manager at NASA's
Jet Propulsion Laboratory which runs most of NASA's deep space
probes.

"Goldin recently told his managers that the Young report will be
the Rogers Commission of space science," Andrew Lawler wrote in
the March 10 issue of Science magazine, "referring to the
devastating critique delivered by a panel that examined the 1986
Challenger disaster."

And in a March 9 internal memo from JPL director Ed Stone, which
UPI has obtained, space workers are warned that "the days ahead
may at times be difficult."

According to Lori Garver, NASA's associate administrator for
plans, the report on NSA's failures will be reviewed internally
and then will be sent to the White House before being released
to the public.






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   Mar > Mar 21

                     Letter to NASA Administrator Goldin

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:57:55 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:31:44 -0500
Subject: Letter to NASA Administrator Goldin


Yesterday, I sent the following letter to NASA Administrator Dan
Goldin (fax 202-358-2810)

I'm pretty sure a subordinate will screen the letter out before
it reaches Goldin, and if not, he probably won't bother reading
it as soon as he sees what the subject is. So I'm posting it
here.

Mr. Daniel Goldin, Administrator, National Aeronautics and Space
Administration

                                                        3/20/00

Dear Mr. Goldin:

Using astronomy software and the orbital elements published for
Mars Global Surveyor, it is predicted that on March 22 and June
17 the spacecraft will overfly the Cydonia region of Mars. I
respectfully request that you honor the promises NASA has made
and direct the Jet Propulsion Laboratory to attempt the
acquisition of images on those two dates of some of the unusual
objects in Cydonia - e.g., the "Fortress," the "Face," the
"Tholus," etc.

It is known that several imaging opportunities have presented
themselves in the past, and that each time no images were taken
as promised. This, and the improperly processed versions of the
"Face" image of 4/5/98 released to the news media by JPL cast
serious doubt on the NASA's commitment to honor the public's
trust.

And the promise has been made in no uncertain terms at least
twice, once by you personally. On JPL's own web site, the stated
policy on Cydonia is:

http://mpfwww.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/cydonia.html

"The Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft is only able to photograph
features on the surface of Mars that are directly below it as it
makes each orbital pass. The spacecraft will fly directly over
the Cydonia region, where enigmatic features were observed in
the Viking mission, a few times during its mapping mission. The
Mars Global Surveyor project will announce these imaging
opportunities in advance and will post the resultant images on
the Internet."

The late John Holliman, CNN science journalist, said in a report
he published on  4/15/98 at

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9804/15/holliman/index.html

"I talked to NASA administrator Daniel Goldin last Thursday and
he tells me the Mars Global Surveyor will continue to take
pictures of the Cydonia region, where the face is located, until
everyone is satisfied."

"Many of you are writing telling me of a NASA conspiracy to hide
information about the face, and I asked Goldin to provide all
the information possible about the region where the "face" is
located. He says he will, and I believe him. Let's see what
happens as Surveyor continues its mission. "

This exchange between you and Mr. Holliman occurred almost two
years ago. You might ask yourself, given JPL's performance to
date, would Mr. Holliman still believe you?

Sincerely,

Lan Fleming








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                           Re: Implant Technology

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:40:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:31:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Implant Technology


 >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:58:22 -0500
 >From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
 >Subject: Implant Technology
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Got your implant yet?

 >http://www.digitalangel.net/

 >Don't be the last one on your block to get your Digital Angel!

Isn't it comforting to know that everyone can have a Guardian
Angel?  It's the next best thing to having your own "orbs."






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                 Re: Cheaper UFO-Like Satellite Substitutes?

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:31:59 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:35:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Cheaper UFO-Like Satellite Substitutes?


 >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:33:21 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
 >Subject: Cheaper UFO-Like Satellite Substitutes?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Hi Nick, Listfolk,

 >Hi everyone.

 >Motorola, the company which owns the 66 operational Iridium
 >satellites (and a few more in-orbit spares) has thrilled many
 >observers of the twilight skies with the frequent very bright
 >flashes their satellites produce by reflected sunlight. No
 >doubt, some of these flashes were sometimes mistaken as UFOs.

 >Now this private comapny, which has recently filed for
 >bankruptcy, plans to do something really incredible. It is
 >making plans to de-orbit all its satellites within the next two
 >years or so, a spectacular firey end to their multi-billion
 >dollar investment.There must be good business reasons for
 >doing this but to me it doesn't make sense, anymore then when
 >our Canadian Government ordered the destruction of the AVRO
 >Arrows, the best planes in the world at the time and only
 >outperformed by a few, four decades later.

Sense is not one of humanity's virtues, I'm curious what the
various Govn't agencies around the Globe are going to do with
all the expensive paperweights that they bought-such as the US
Govn't. they bought (I think 500 ) quite a few phones. As to the
CF-105 Arrow , the only Jet that was near it's equal was the
SR-71/F-12 and the Arrow could out climb it to altitude! and the
F-15 and F-14 are not nearly as fast. The TRS-2 was another
example.

I am convinced that had we not spent Billions and Billions on
various dead end projects (such as the BOMARC)and p***ing
away lives and dollars in idiotic exercises such as Vietnam.We
would be on Mars, with a Lunar base, figuring out an economical
way to get to Apha Centuari.

 >Last weekend I was reading the April 2000 issue of Popular
 >Science. This issue makes mention of a different private
 >company, Sky Station International, and their plans to float
 >giant solar-electric helium filled airships 13 miles above all
 >the world's major cities, with the first 500 foot long airship
 >expected to be in the air by 2002. We may soon have bright
 >football shaped UFO-like objects to amaze us during twilight to
 >replace the brief flashes of light from the Iridium satellites.
 >Unless their presence scares off real UFOs, future UFO sightings
 >over cities will likely be attributed to sightings of these
 >giant airships.


Could be , Nick I can see it now :"Airship hovering over NY
clearly the cause of Mysterious Lights !" Oh, well,

GT McCoy









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   Mar > Mar 22

                           Re: Implant Technology

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:34:27 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:37:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Implant Technology


 >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:58:22 -0500
 >From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
 >Subject: Implant Technology
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Got your implant yet?

 >http://www.digitalangel.net/

 >Don't be the last one on your block to get your Digital Angel!

 >Terry

Hmm,

Can't you see the advertising campaign for this little jewel...
Following the popular traditions of

Got Milk (Dairy Farmers ad campaign)

Got Beer (New PETA campaign)

Got Implant (New? campaign)

The ad agencys could direct a series of ads towards women that
go to the effect of "Do you know where your husband is... well
from the makers of dark (oops Digital) angel you can no exactly
where he is at, and how much beer he has guzzeled...

Then the series of ads directed towards men that go to the
effect of "Have you ever been lost in the wilderness on a
hunting trip? Buried in an avalanche, or just wondered what
your wife, kids and dog was doing while you were gone on a
business trip, just tap in with Digital angel...

Gee, the thing will be an instant hit....   :)

Cheers,

Robert








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                      Re: MGS May Overfly The 'Tholus'

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:19:20 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:41:24 -0500
Subject: Re: MGS May Overfly The 'Tholus'


I received this message from Peter Nerbun yesterday and he gave
me permission to forward it.

Pete has been watching the progress of Mars Global Surveyor over
the past two years, using commercially available astronomy
software for his orbital computations. He predicted the first
Cydonia overflight in April, '98 quite accurately.

Of course, the fact that MGS can take the images doesn't mean it
will. Until evidence to the contrary is produced, I'd have to
assume that JPL will continue to flagrantly violate the promises
it made to re-image Cydonia at every opportunity, as it has for
the past two years.

The "Tholus" is a conical structure not too far from the "Face"
that appears to have a ramp or groove spiralling up to its
summit from its base.

================================================================

I am now able to forecast the region of Cydonia over which MGS
will pass on Wednesday, March 22. It will be the Eastern section
very near to the Tholus. Amazingly, the JPL web site now offers
precise real time overflight coordinates for MGS.

http://mars3.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/realtime/ground-pds.html

Scroll down to the bottom of this link and you will see 4
numerical values -- top latitude, bottom latitude, left
longitude, and right longitude.

If you draw a square on a map of Mars using these values, MGS is
located directly over the center of the square at any given
moment.

The site refreshes about once every two minutes, but that is
good enough to provide MGS overflight coordinates which allow me
verify and fine tune my prediction.

The overflight will occur between 15:00 GMT and 15:30 GMT.

I do not believe that Malin will rotate the spacecraft to image
the Face but rather will acquire an image of the Tholus only if
MGS passes within a longitude range of 0.07 degree of the Tholus
(the width of the image strip). That degree of precision
forecasting is still out of reach.

Peter






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                           Re: Implant Technology

From: Donnie Shevlin <dshevlin@charter.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:29:43 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:43:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Implant Technology


 >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:43:20 -0500
 >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
 >Subject: Re: Implant Technology
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:58:22 -0500
 >>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
 >>Subject: Implant Technology
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Got your implant yet?

 >>http://www.digitalangel.net/

 >>Don't be the last one on your block to get your Digital Angel!

 >>Terry

 >Hi Terry,

 >The implications of this technology are staggering. Whole books
 >could be written about it and it still wouldn't begin to scratch
 >the surface. Because there is 'so much' to this topic I will aim
 >my bullets carefully.  :)

 >At the website it says:

 >>Potential Uses of Digital Angel�

 >>Although still in the early developmental stage, we believe
 >>Digital Angel� could have an array of beneficial potential
 >>applications:

 >And an "array" of negative ones as well! But this is a 'sales
 >pitch' and they don't want you think about that.

 >>provide a tamper-proof means of locating and
 >>identifying individuals for e-business and e-commerce
 >>security; locate individuals, including children, who are lost
 >>or who have been abducted; monitor the medical conditions
 >>of at-risk patients; track and locate military, diplomatic and
 >>other essential government personnel; determine the location
 >>or the authenticity of valuable property; track the whereabouts
 >>of wilderness sports enthusiasts (mountain climbers, hikers,
 >>skiers, etc.).

 >All of which are noble and excellent applications. Makes you
 >stop and wonder what a 'Military mind' could do with such
 >technology.  :)

 >John Velez, unwitting Alien 'Digital Angel' customer.


Howdy all,

Or John, how long ago the chip was originally invented. I heard
speculation years ago that chips similar to this were available to the
military/intelligence agencies.

In a way, if 'I' were to sew one of these into my daughters clothes I
would feel better about her being outside alone. Against child abduction
it would be considered 'god sent' but I have to agree with John that in
the wrong hands, which I'm sure it already is, would be a problem.

You know, a thought just occurred (one of few) that if 'we' installed
these chips into our more frequent abductee's that perhaps we could
trace them. A simple computer application could store hours of GPS
locations per person. Just a thought.

Donnie Shevlin








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                          Filer's Files #11 -- 2000

From: George A. File <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:15:46 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:48:51 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #11 -- 2000


Filer's Files #11 -- 2000, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,   Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
March 21, 2000,   Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. - Chuck Warren Webmaster.

SPRING IS HERE IT'S GREAT TO BE ALIVE

Like David Letterman last week I had heart by-pass surgery so
I'll be around for another thirty years. It was a mind expanding
experience and I wish to thank the great team of Doctors who up
dated my mechanisms at Deborah Hospital in Brown's Mills, New
Jersey. Almost hourly C-141 and KC-10 aircraft from Mc Guire Air
Force Base flew by the hospital windows kind of waving at their
old flying buddy. I could write a book about my week in the
hospital, while trying to get out these files. While flat on my
back, I tried to convince others in the hospital about the
realty of UFOs and many agreed with my point of view. Several of
my nurses had stories concerning the reality of the phenomenon.
One night at about three in the morning my attractive nurse came
to my hospital bed to give me some medicine. She told me about
her close friend who had worked with aliens at a Western Base.
Here I was with tubes and electronic devices connected to me,
hardly able to move, and a very sincere person was six inches
away telling me a fantastic story about the reality of UFOs. Her
friend worked for GE a major US company and would be gone for
six months at a time. Unfortunately, she could not reveal his
name but she did provide creditability to the following story
about Dr. Hans Nieper. This is one of the fascinating things
about Ufology, not a week goes by without someone telling me a
story or sending a photograph about UFOs. A clear pattern is
starting to emerge. Let people know your interested and you will
start getting stories from people as well.

With the coming of spring, UFOs are moving around the country on
a more regular basis. They seem to like the comparatively mild
weather. So if you personally would like to see a UFO, you have
a good chance while watching the setting sun. Face the sun and
block it with your hand or some object. Now watch for fast
moving objects often moving from behind your back towards the
sun in western sky. Let me know if you see one.

DR. HANS NIEPER SAYS ALIENS ARE VISITING US

Bruce Jessop writes, "I would like to share something with you
which is not a sighting but a meeting I had in November 1998
with a Dr. Hans Nieper who unfortunately has since passed away
in Germany. We were talking about various things and the subject
of antigravity came up. He has written a book on the subject.
And I noticed in his office that he had photos of himself with a
couple of other well-known people and US presidents. After some
minutes he asked me if I believed in UFO's? I shared with him
two sightings that I had back in New Brunswick, Canada and
Montreal in 1981 as a huge craft slowly glided across the
highway no more than 35 yards in front of my car. He asked me
"What do you think the highest classified secret of the US
government is?" I waited and he answered, "The US government
have made contact with four races of alien life." He described
them as follows: 1) Short grays. 2) Tall grays. 3) Reptilian, 4)
tall fair skinned like this part of the world. Dr. Nieper was a
world-renowned medical doctor. But most revealing, after he told
me about the four races, I asked him where he got this
information. He just pointed to the wall and there was a photo
of him and Werner von Braun. He told me that he had had early
involvement with von Braun, starting up NASA and was privy to
classified information. He was an intimate friend of von Braun.
Dr.Nierper was also an astrophysicist and had gone to study the
pyramids in Egypt and wrote an article to show proof that the
stones had been cut with a laser device." Thanks to CAUS and
Bruce Jessop for letting me use his article.

Editor's Note German scientist Hermann Oberth who headed an
official West German three year UFO study group and is
considered the father of rocketry stated in 1954, "There is no
doubt in my mind that these objects (UFO's) are interplanetary
craft of some sort. I am confident that they do not originate in
our solar system, but they may use Mars or some other body for a
way station. It is also our conclusion that they are propelled
by distorting or converting the gravitational field." From Frank
Edwards' book, Strange World, Lyle Stewart, New York, 1964, pp.
209 - 210.

CONNECTICUT LIGHT

MIDDLETOWN -- Investigator Larry Clark has forwarded the
following message: "My name is Dean Burgess and I want to report
a UFO sighting around 8:00 PM on March 10, 2000." Looking out my
window I saw a bright light hovering over the Powder Ridge Ski
Resort seven miles away. The light did not move for a minute and
then started to move horizontally. The light was huge about the
size of a pea at arm's length. As I watched it started a descent
that took it behind the mountain and out of my sight. "Did
anyone else see this light?" Thanks Dean Burgess
BURGESSSTEAMER15@aol.com and Larry Clark at www.nymufon.org

Larry Clark writes, "You mentioned it moved horizontally at the
top of the mountain ski resort. My first assumption would be
that it was some kind of equipment associated with the facility.
Was the facility operating when you saw this bright light? If
so, and people were atop the mountain, I would expect that
anything unusual that could be seen so closely by a number of
people would have resulted in an item in the local newspaper.
Investigation will continue.

NEW YORK FLYING TRIANGLE

BRIGHTON -- MUFON State Director Jim Bouck writes this is for
your files: "In the town of Brighton, a man, while out hiking on
March 15, 2000, at 6:12 PM observed a totally black triangular
object in the sky. The closest thing he could compare it to is
the stealth fighter plane. The difference being that the object
was estimated to be no more than six feet long and four feet
wide. It was shaped more like an arrow head with the arrow head
notch toward the rear. The sides were ragged in edge, not clean
edged. The object flew at a very low altitude, perhaps forty
feet above treetop level at about ten miles per hour. The
sighting lasted about 45 seconds. Thanks to Jim Bouck NY MUFON
State Director.

Editor's Note: The size of objects in the sky are very difficult
to estimate. However, smaller objects are often reported
departing from larger ones. UFOs have often been reported with
an ability to change size and shape. The investigation continues
and perhaps other witnesses can be found. I would also like to
welcome Jim Bouck as our new State Director who took over from
our lawyer friend Dana Schmidt who has now retired. We want to
thank Dana for all his great work. Jim has many talents
including excellent computer knowledge that will aid our work.

PENNSYLVANIA CROSS SHAPED UFO

PLYMOUTH BOROUGH - On March 12, 2000, the witness was preparing
for bed when she noticed bright white, non-blinking lights
stationary object in the sky, The object seemed to be a group of
lights arranged in a cross pattern (exact number not known, but
definitely exceeded 8). After going outside for a better look,
the witness saw what appeared to be 2 more identical objects.
The first object remained stationary approximately 1/2 mile
distant, while the 2 additional objects traveled slowly to the
north. No sound was heard that could be attributed to the
objects. At the time of the sighting the sky was partly cloudy
with no precipitation. The objects remained beneath the cloud
cover for at least 10 minutes. Thanks to Peter Davenport,
NUFORC,

WASHINGTON DC TWO UFOs

Peter Davenport writes that a government witness reports, "I
observed two small lights cross the night sky from the Belt of
Orion to the North Star." They appeared to be chasing one
another. I was standing in Constitution Gardens on the north
side of the pond, looking approximately southwest towards Orion.
"I saw what I at first took to be a shooting star because of its
speed and the way it seemed to be falling or dropping, but it
didn't fade away the way falling stars usually do." Then I saw
that there were actually two lights, which were moving along
parallel to each other. The lights were small and white with a
pale greenish tinge. I thought it might be an airplane with a
light on either wingtip, but the lights were not flashing, and
they seemed to be moving too fast for an airplane. As I watched,
the two lights converged into one, and then changed again so
that one appeared to be following or chasing the other. The rear
light seemed to be 'swinging' back and forth behind the path of
the front light. It crossed my mind that they might be fighter
planes, but they looked like they were much too close together,
and there was no noise. A regular airplane went by in same
location, and I could clearly hear it. The lights were headed
almost directly towards the North Star, but a little lower on
the horizon. They disappeared into the lights of the city. I
looked at my watch, it was 10:05 PM, and the entire incident had
taken about ten seconds. Thanks to NUFORC ufocntr@nwlink.com

Peter B. Davenport states, "The yellow orbs were seen over
Prescott Valley again this evening. They first appeared on
February 2, 2000, and they have been seen sporadically over
Arizona since that time. Other states from which similar
phenomena have been reported are FL, TX, CA, OR, IL, MI, WI, and
PR. "Very strange stuff, in my opinion."

FLORIDA STRANGE LIGHTS

SAWGRASS -A woman driving south on the Sawgrass Expressway
(I-75) saw a huge light hovering just east of the highway on
March 2, 2000. The light was in place for several seconds before
moving at 10:14 PM. Once the object began to move, the intense
light dulled and she realized it was not one large bright
object, but two. The objects were just underneath each other.
The objects started to move and the first object climbed
straight up in the sky. The second object followed at close
range.

AVON PARK -- Driving east towards Avon park on Highway 98 on
February 8, 2000, I looked up in the sky and saw a burnt-orange
fireball. It would fade out and glow back in another position in
the sky. As I reached hwy 27 at 5:15 PM I turned south and saw
toward the eastern sky three (same color) fireballs. Theses
three fireballs would be as far apart from each other as two
miles and as close as 200 feet. The last one I seen that night
was at 8:45 PM south of Lake Placid. There is an Air Force
bombing range nearby, but I know of no activity going on there
at night. It is mostly a reservist base. I also hunt the land
there through their lease program, and I never have seen any
activity at night. Also two years ago when a friend and I were
going to go hunt there, we saw the same thing (two orange
fireballs) east of Wauchula, but nowhere near the bombing range.
I think this in my mind rules of any kind of military flares. I
am a truck driver so I headed south towards Miami, and did not
see anything else. Thanks to the UFO Disclosure Net at
www.ufodisclosure.net and Jeffbloom4@ispchannel.com

PALOS HILLS ILLINOIS PHOTOS

I saw your "Filer's Files #10. You had a piece about a sighting
I had. The exciting photographs are located at my main web site
at:

http://palos-hills.com/

Contrail/Chemtrail Page:http://palos-hills.com/contrails/
Photo Number 27 is at: http://www.palos-hills.com/contrails/022900/27.JPG
Photo Number 29is at :http://www.palos-hills.com/contrails/022900/29.JPG

MICHIGAN STUDENT REPORTS UFO

HOWELL -- A student reported to Doug Parrish, a
German/Russian/English teacher at Howell High School, that he
was sitting in his bedroom 55 miles northwest of Detroit doing
his homework when he saw a UFO. On March 12, 2000, at least
one--and sometime later, two--UFO's were reported as having been
sighted by a high school sophomore in the nighttime sky. He has
a large bedroom window, which faces to the South. At 3000 feet
from this window there is a tree line that take up the bottom
fifth of the viewing area of the window. Suddenly, around 11:30
p.m., the student became aware that a large aerial object was
visible in the right lower (southwest) portion of the window. It
was as wide as the distance between the little finger and the
thumb at arm's length when both fingers are stretched as far
apart as they will go. The definitely large and round object was
tilted at what appeared to be an angle to his line of sight. He
ruled out an airplane because the navigational lights, which he
saw, were the wrong colors and there were far too many of them.
They seemed to be blinking in some kind of pattern and gave the
impression that they were somehow circling around the edge of
the craft. The craft performed unlike any helicopter and
zigzagged across the sky. It first appearing here, then with a
short, fast movement, appearing there, only to repeat the
maneuver in another section of the sky. It would momentary halt
at each point before moving quickly to the next location. His
window was open a small amount, but he heard no noise. The skies
were cloudy and the temperature was about 30 degrees. A few
minutes later, the craft made for the lower left-hand corner of
the viewing area only to disappear temporarily behind the tree
line. A moment later, the craft reappeared along with a
companion craft. Both craft continued with the circling pattern
of lights around their outer perimeters, but then both craft
once again disappeared behind the tree line. The sighting lasted
at least eight minutes. It is interesting to note that the
student, a well-liked young man with many friends and a member
of the high school wrestling team, waited until all other
students had left before taking Mr. Parrish aside to relate this
incident to him. He appeared sincere. Thanks to Doug Parish
dparrish@ismi.net

MINNESOTA HAS UNUSUAL LIGHTS AND TRIANGLE UFO

ST. PAUL -- William I. McNeff, MUFON State Director writes, "On
January 27, 2000, the witness looked out the kitchen window,
where there was an open field brush land extending 800 feet." He
saw what appeared to be a private airplane moving toward him 45
degrees above the horizon to the West. The craft moved more
slowly than the average small plane. As it came closer the
witness observed a square configuration of lights about the size
of a a small house. Two of the lights were white and two were
blue. The altitude of the craft when first seen was estimated at
5000 feet. The appearance was similar to typical pulsing
airplane lights, except that airplane lights are not blue and do
not appear in a square configuration. The lights continued to
approach at about 75 mph, slowing perceptibly several times and
then stopping for a couple seconds at less than 2000 feet
altitude and 200 feet distance. The craft made an abrupt 130
degree turn to the left and moved slowly toward the northwest.
The witness watched the craft go out of sight behind a line of
trees. No helicopter rotors were heard or seen and would have
been evident at that distance. The witness was convinced it was
not a plane or helicopter. Sighting Evaluation: Since it
approached along the normal flight path from Holman Field, the
craft was possibly a helicopter. However the lack of noise or
rotors argues against that interpretation. Conclusion:
Unidentified. Investigated by Dean and Margaret DeHarpporte.

MINNEAPOLIS -- "On September 2, 1999, a woman who is a
financial/business administrator for a major local corporation
was driving in the northwest suburb of Plymouth. She was driving
along a road leading onto a peninsula that extends out into
Medicine Lake, which is near the intersection of Highway 55 and
169. She observed a pair of bright white and very intense lights
located to the northwest ahead. She felt that they resembled two
landing lights. To her they seemed to be out of place, and were
searching for something. She continued to drive up the peninsula
a few hundred feet and reached a point where the trees no longer
obscured her view. The lights were no longer visible but above
the treetops was a large, dark triangular object. Its size was
as large as her hand at arm's length that she felt was slightly
less than that of a house. This might put it in the 30 to 60
foot range. The object was black to charcoal-gray matte-colored
(see illustration below). The closest vertex of the triangle was
pointed in her direction, with the object moving toward her.
There were lights at the two rear vertices, one red and one
green. Also, all over the underside of the object was a pattern
of three dimensional rectangular relief concealing something
within.

MAKINEN -- On November 20, 1999, a family of four was watching a
video when the oldest son (20) noticed a bright red light in the
southern sky. The family went outside to observe four lights
forming a square, then changing to include fifty lights in a
straight line centered between the four lights. "I thought this
was really weird," Terry the father said. This prompted him to
go inside and dial 911. The object stopped for a minute or so
and began to pulsate. When Terry came back outside, the object
began to move again toward the north and finally disappeared
over the horizon. The family observed the object for eight
minutes and managed to take pictures of the UFO with two
cameras. The photos from the new camera look "wiggly".
Visibility was about 10 miles with high overcast clouds. Some
hunters in the area also witnessed the object. No conventional
or natural objects seem to fit the description. Conclusion:
Unidentified. Investigated by FIT Dr. Stephen Hero and FI
Director Craig Lang. Thanks to William I. McNeff MUFON State
Director.

NEBRASKA MISSILE SHAPED

OMAHA -- As I was returning to work on March 16, 2000, traveling
northbound on 72nd street-approaching State Street my wife and I
(a network engineer) noticed a white missile-like object hanging
in the sky 140 degree nose down at 1:05 PM. Slowing our vehicle
down, I realized the object was not stationary but rather
traveling at a snail's pace in the sky west of 72nd at a
consistent altitude. The craft did not appear to have any wings
or lights nor was any sign of propulsion contrails evident.
Although I cannot accurately estimate the distance the object
was from me with nothing to use for a reference, it did not
appear to be more than a couple thousand feet up in the sky as
it traveled west/southwest. The object appeared to be an inch
long and a 1/8 of an inch thick at arm's length. The sky was
clear with very few cumulus clouds high above and nothing
obstructed my view of the object. As I turned west on State
Street and pulled over to get a better look, the slow moving
object totally disappeared from view. I have never seen anything
remotely similar to this object before in my life, especially
the weird angles (nose-down if the front of the object was at
the end which pointed in the direction that it was traveling)
that it appeared to fly. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

ARKANSAS FIREBALL

CABOT - The witness writes, "I would like to keep my name and
email address confidential if you would please regarding the
fire balls in Arkansas." My husband and I saw one at
approximately 8:25 PM on March 9, 2000, Thursday night just
outside Cabot. It appeared at first to be a small plane on fire.
It was not. It was a large ball with a tail between 20-40 feet
long flying at tree top level. In fact, it looked like an
oversized Roman candle. We watched it for about two minutes then
it disappeared. There was no contact with earth that we could
see; no explosion. No one seems to have any answers. Apparently
my husband and I were the only ones to report this to the media.
If you have any information regarding this mystery. I would be
interested to know. Little Rock Air Force Base is less than 20
miles from where we saw it and there were five C-130's in the
air at the time. Thanks to Jack Editor's Note: Based on your and
other descriptions the most likely cause was a bolide meteor.

LIFE MAGAZINE MARCH 2000 COVER SHOWS UFOs

Life magazine has a fifty year history of bringing UFO
photographs to the public. Just in case you did not catch this,
the cover of "LIFE" Magazine's March current issue addresses
UFOs ... and I believe this might be LIFE's final (or one of
LIFE's final) issue. If so - this issue would likely have some
historical significance (because of the unique way LIFE elected
to close out their niche in photojournalism). Cover can be
viewed by accessing:
http://lifemag.com/insidelife/insidelife.html  Shown:
Photographed for LIFE by Nigel Parry in Agua Dulce, Calif. UFO
photo and digitally placed UFO from National Archives. Thanks to
Ron Hannivig, Simpson PA

PERU UFO CAUGHT ON TV

LIMA -- During the early morning hours of this March 10, 2000, a
UFO made a slow flyby of the city at a very low altitude for
about 15 minutes, allowing many local residents to witness its
unhurried passing. Some witnesses saw small spheres emerge from
the object drifting away aimlessly. Dozens of witnesses phoned
the news media and several minutes of video footage were secured
by Pan-American Television (Lima Channel 5). The news has been
spread all over the country on the "24 Horas" (24 Hours) news
program on Pan-American TV. The following is a transcript of the
broadcast:  Voice of Valia Barak, anchorwoman on the "24 Horas"
set: "A strange object crossed the skies over Lima early this
morning. Thousands of citizens witnessed the phenomenon..."
Voice of Viviana Coehllo, on site reporter, with camera image by
Juan C. Amoretti: "This was the object observed by many at 1:30
a.m.. Strange movements and plays of light were seen in the
heavens over the city of Lima, drawing the attention of hundreds
of onlookers. " [A group of four lights in a triangular
arrangement can be seen, moving with uncharacteristic slowness
over the rooftops}.  Eyewitness ): "It was a big ship with
yellow and red lights...and ten little ships came out..."  Voice
of Viviana Cohello: "A considerable number of phone calls from
El Callao, Los Olivos, San martin de Porres and Villa El
Slavador congested the switchboards of Radio Programas del Peru
(RPP). The common denominator was the unidentified flying object
that flew over our capital."  Eyewitness Bruno Guzman,
journalist: "It is quite startling to go from receiving the
claims, phone calls, and eyewitness accounts to become a
participant in this environment, this spectacle we've just seen.
We can't quite explain properly or scientifically what happened
this morning. Around one o'clock in the morning we began
receiving calls from the public; later we peered out the 7th
floor window; later we climbed up on the rooftop, and we've been
able to attest to the lights, these points of color that changed
intermittently from blue, red to white light, moving strangely."
(Information courtesy Rose Marie Paz Wells. Translation credit
(c) 2000, Scott Corrales) Thanks to Skywatch International

LETTER REGARDING DEAD SEA SCROLLS

Red Setter writes: The essential reference book for forbidden
Scroll-related knowledge might be "Secrets of the Dead Sea
Scrolls Revealed" by John Marco Allergo (deceased), Gramercy
Press, New York, 1983. Not a single copy remains in Australia.
If you can access Library of Congress and get a copy to Xerox,
that would be a real breakthrough! Allegro was the British
member of Scrolls team, picked in early 1950s. By 1983, he
decided to divulge all. I cannot judge his translations, but
apparently parts of Ezekiel and Genesis clearly detail ET.
Visits. Lot's wife does not turn into a "pillar of salt", but
rather her skin "turns the color of salt which is on the plain,"
e.g. radioactive damage. "Angels of the evening and morning
star" warn the occupants of S-G, later they use "fire spears."
Ezekiel shares fellowship with visitors from the stars, later he
finds a glassy ring on the ground where rocks were m


CORRECTION TO LAST WEEKS FILER'S FILES

Dr. Richard Boylan writes: As regards the Filer's Files
newsletter I must correct several glaring inaccuracies. In the
section purporting to describe Dr. Steven Greer's position on
extraterrestrials, two major mistakes occur in the narrative
(below).    1. Dr. Steven Greer DOES know that ET encounters are
taking place, contrary to Filer. Dr. Greer has had ET encounters
of his own, and talked to scores of experiencers. Dr. Greer and
I have talked on this point for years. Dr. Greer _also_ makes
the important additional point that, in addition to actual ET
encounters, there are thousands of unlawful kidnappings and
assaultings/rapes of innocent civilians by rogue
military-counterintelligence units who try to use drugs and
hypnosis to make their victims mis-remember their kidnapping as
an "alien abduction". Dr. Greer emphasizes, as do I, the
importance of not confusing these rogue military-intelligence
kidnapping-assaults with the real and benign extraterrestrial
encounters. But Dr. Greer NEVER says that there are no genuine
ET encounters. 2. Mr. Filer seriously misidentifies the
billionaire that told Dr. Greer that the ETs were demonic and
behind every evil event in history. That billionaire was NOT
Laurence Rockefeller, who actually _wants_ to meet the ETs and
learn the secret to prolonging life. No, the paranoid
billionaire described is actually Prince Hans Adam of
Liechtenstein, EU, who along with Las Vegas billionaire Bob
Bigelow, has financed a number of selective UFO "investigators"
and gatherings which peddle the "evil alien invader" propaganda
line so pleasing to The Prince. It is important to keep the
facts straight. Thanks to Richard Boylan, Ph.D.

REPEAT OF WHEN DISCLOSURE SERVES SECRECY FILES

CSETI Director Steven M. Greer M.D. has put out a new book that
is worth reading. Steven who provides some profound thinking in
his own right indicates he does not feel abductions are actually
taking place. He gives us insight into the mind of one of the
most consequential men of the century who he doesn't agree with
when he states,  "In one lengthy meeting with a
multi-billionaire, I was told that he gave great support to UFO
activities which propel the so-called 'alien abduction' subject
into public awareness because he wanted humanity to unite around
fighting this 'alien threat'. Later, this very influential
figure informed me that he believed these demonic ET s were the
cause of every set back in human history since Adam and Eve.
Sound familiar?"

Last Week's Editor's Note: This billionaire has been friends
with many US presidents and top political, religious and
economic leaders worldwide for more than fifty years. Is it
possible that Laurance Rockefeller knows what he's talking
about? Thanks to Steven M. Greer M.D. See www.CSETI.com.

This Week's Answer: Thank you Dr. Boylan for revealing the name
of the billionaire whose name I had been unable to obtain. I and
others have wrongly assumed it was Mr. Rockefeller. In my
discussions with Dr. Greer where we spoke to Congressional
staffs in Washington DC, Dr. Greer had always referred to
abductions as: "so-called alien abductions." I apparently
misunderstood him. I wish to be accurate on Dr. Greer's
position. Now I would be interested in learning Prince Hans Adam
of Liechtenstein position on UFOs since I have not had the good
fortune to meet this gentleman. Thank you for pointing out my
error. Good health to us all.

PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET of some of the best UFO shots available and
data on their propulsion systems. $10.00 by US Navy Commander
Graham Bethune.

US GOVERNMENT UFO PROOF RELEASED: Audio tapes of a genuine UFO
Alert at Edwards Air Force base and studied by the Foreign
Technology Division at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, are now
available for distribution to the public. Sam Sherman's audio
documentary tape called EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER on the
night of October 7, 1965, uses the actual voice recordings
provided by the Air Force. During this event 12 high tech
luminous UFOs invade secure air space and came down low over the
runways at Edwards AFB. Tower operator Sgt. Chuck Sorrels
spotted them and notified the Air Defense Command. Sgt. Sorrels
is heard on the original tapes and in a new segment where he
verifies the event as it is heard on the archival recordings.
The UFOs are described and a decision is made to launch F-106
fighter interceptors. You are there for an important part of UFO
history. Hear it for yourself, it's the best UFO tape ever made.
Tape cost is $14.95 each plus $2.00 for shipping -- total $16.95
-- (for overseas orders-out of US - add $6.00 shipping cost --
total -- $20.95) you can send either a personal check or money
order to: Independent International Pictures Corp, Box 565,
Dept. GF, Old Bridge, New Jersey 08857.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe by contacting Mufon@aol.com. Mention I
recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is Copyrighted
2000 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post
items from the Files on their Web Sites provided that they
credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue that the item appeared. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish. Please state if you wish to keep your name or
story confidential.









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   Mar > Mar 22

                               FUFOR Web Site

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:02:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:53:08 -0500
Subject: FUFOR Web Site


Following a month of frustration, the Fund for UFO Research web
site is back on line.  However, the URL has been changed to

www.fufor.com

To make a long story short, the Domain Name that had been
registered (fufor.org) apparently lapsed at the same time as the
provider contract and became available before we had realized
what happened.  When I attempted to re-register the name I found
that a speculator had grabbed it several days before and
fufor.org was no longer available.  We may attempt to re-secure
that name, but the process could drag on for a while and we
wanted to get the site back up and running as quickly as we
could.

In looking at it I realize that I haven't modified the email
buttons to send email to the correct address, and I'll take care
of that this evening. Otherwise it should work normally, and
there are a few minor corrections that have been uploaded that
weren't included previously.

We are planning a re-design of the web page, but that's still in
the discussion phase.

I apologize for the confusion that this will cause, and know
that this will force others to modify their link pages.  It
seems the Murphy's Law was in control in this transition, and if
it could go wrong, it did.

Steven Kaeser







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   Mar > Mar 22

                    C-E: And Now, 'The Rest Of The Story'

From: Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:22:25 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:04:21 -0500
Subject: C-E: And Now, 'The Rest Of The Story'


Here's something everyone should know:

On July 8, 1947, witnesses claim a spaceship with five aliens
aboard crashed on a sheep-and-cattle ranch outside Roswell, NM,
an incident they say has been covered up by the military.

On March 31, 1948, exactly nine months after that day,
Al Gore was born.

That clears up a lot of things.



Please support the websites:
http://www.evansville.net/~slk/dir.html
by sending donations to: Sites, 618 Davis Drive, Mt. Vernon, IN  47620

-----






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   Mar > Mar 22

                          Re: Hudson Valley Update?

From: William Sawers <wsawers@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:01:53 +1200
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:32:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Update?


 >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:35:43 -0500
 >From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
 >Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Update?
 >To: UFO UpDates <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>From: William Sawers <wsawers@ihug.co.nz>
 >>Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:19:05 +1300
 >>Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:26:43 -0500
 >>Subject: Hudson Valley Update?

 >>Iunderstand that Hudson Valley has had/is having more of the
 >>same sightings of the "triangle shaped UFO" that prompted the
 >>book by Philip Imbrogno (sp?) andIthink Dr Hynek had a part
 >>in it.

 >>If anyone has a Web site or info on these latest sightings
 >>could they please post.

 >I haven't yet heard about a recent-recent sighting, about the
 >only thing i've heard recently was Bruce Cornet claiming that a
 >red laser light was targetting him & following his car...

 >At any rate, a few links to gather more NY/HV/PB info:

<snip>

Hey Ron, just a quick note to thank-you for the addresses re
above, I have had a little look but it's going take time to get
thru some excellent stuff...cheers for that , and for
brightening my day on some of your TIC comments, especially re
Greer and Co. (I'm still grinning)

William


"I'm not prejudiced... I hate everybody equally!"










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   Mar > Mar 22

                             Re: FUFOR Web Site

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:04:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:40:59 -0500
Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site


 >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:12:19 -0600
 >From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net>
 >Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >This just brought to mind that, in the past, I know certain
 >'skeptic' groups have bought up domains of sites that were even
 >the least 'pro-ufo' as soon as they lapsed.  Following that they
 >simply turned the site into a link to their own org/site,
 >thereby locking the name up and funneling folks into their own
 >lil propoganda booth.

 >I'm not saying this is what happened to you all, but it wouldn't
 >shock me.  How 'skeptic' groups that claim to push critical
 >thinking and rationalism can 'sucker folks' in (and in my view,
 >basically censor others) like this is beyond me.

 >If anyone has any first hand experience with this sort of thing,
 >I'm sure more than a few of us would be ready to write a nasty
 >letter to the domain predators responsible.

 >Good luck with getting everything sorted out.


Thanks for the thoughts.  We're going to keep an eye on the
situation and advise the list if this gets that nasty.  I hope
that's not the case.

Steve






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   Mar > Mar 22

                           Re: Implant Technology

From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:42:01 +0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:00:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Implant Technology


 >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:29:43 -0600
 >From: Donnie Shevlin <dshevlin@charter.net>
 >Subject: Re: Implant Technology
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >>>Got your implant yet?


<snip>

 >You know, a thought just occurred (one of few) that if 'we' installed
 >these chips into our more frequent abductee's that perhaps we could
 >trace them. A simple computer application could store hours of GPS
 >locations per person. Just a thought.
Donnie Shevlin

So, now not only will abductees have "their" implants in them,
they'll also have "ours".  Soon they wont be able to make it
through metal detectors  :)

Cheers

Sharon







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                  Re: Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article

From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:54:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:53:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article



 >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:41:24 -0500 (EST)
 >From: James Oberg <JamesOberg@aol.com>
 >Subject: Mars Probe Coverup
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >A real NASA coverup!!!

 >NASA knew Mars Polar Lander doomed
 >United Press International - March 21, 2000 15:01

 >By James Oberg, UPI Space Writer

<snip>

Hmmm ... & NASA responds!

http://marslander.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news69.html

I wonder if this is a Grand Conspiracy on NASA's part to make it
look like Mr. Oberg _isn't_ their head Disinformation Agent!

j/k









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   Mar > Mar 22

                 Nibiru - A New Member Of Our Solar System?

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:11:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:57:34 -0500
Subject: Nibiru - A New Member Of Our Solar System?


Hi everyone.

The forwarded RAS announcement below shatters one concept that
many of us assumed to be fact - that all planets orbit around
central stars. Of course, if any of these 13 newly discovered
"free-floating planets" were to pass close to an existing
planetary system like our own, they would be drawn inwards
towards the sun and could become newly orbiting planets locked
in highly elliptical orbits. They would occasionally create
havoc with the other planets in the inner solar system in much
the same way as Zecharia Sitchin's hypothetical Nibiru.

Nick Balaskas

----------

Date: 22 March 2000
For immediate release

Ref. PN 00/04
RAS web: www.ras.org.uk/press/press.htm

Dr Philip Lucas, University of Hertfordshire
Phone: 01707 286070
pwl@star.herts.ac.uk

Dr Patrick Roche, University of Oxford
Phone: 01865 273338
pfr@astro.ox.ac.uk

ASTRONOMERS DISCOVER FREE-FLOATING PLANETS IN THE ORION NEBULA

The most sensitive survey ever undertaken of the region in the
Orion Nebula where new stars are forming has revealed 13 "free-
floating planets" as well as more than one hundred very young
brown dwarfs. The discovery was made by Dr Philip Lucas of the
University of Hertfordshire and Dr Patrick Roche of the
University of Oxford using a new camera on the United Kingdom
Infrared Telescope (UKIRT) in Hawaii. Their results will be
published in the Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical
Society.

Brown dwarfs are objects that might have become stars, but never
accumulated sufficient material. With less than 8% of the Sun's
mass, they did not heat up enough inside to trigger the nuclear
reactions involving hydrogen that keep stars shining over long
periods. Nevertheless, they do produce some nuclear energy for a
short time (from deuterium, a rare isotope of hydrogen) if their
mass exceeds 1.3% the Sun's mass - about 13 times the mass of
Jupiter. Astronomers regard this as the minimum mass for a brown
dwarf.

The new infrared survey of the Trapezium Cluster in the Orion
Nebula, turned up 13 objects below the 13 Jupiter-mass threshold.
The mass of the smallest is equivalent to no more than about 8
Jupiters. These objects have been dubbed "free-floating planets".
They give off only residual heat left over from when they were
born. By nature they are more like the giant planets of our solar
system than stars. However, they do not orbit any star and drift
through space by themselves. Only two similar objects have
previously been discovered. (Japanese astronomers found them in
the southern Chamaeleon Nebula.) The discovery of thirteen more
in one cluster suggests that they might be very common.

Astronomers believe that most stars are born in giant molecular
clouds - vast clumps of cold gas and dust. The nearest such
cloud lurks just behind the glowing gas of the Orion Nebula. The
Trapezium cluster at the heart of the Orion Nebula has recently
broken out of the dark molecular cloud. It is therefore the best
place to look in order to find out about the creation of stars,
brown dwarfs and free-floating planets in the rest of the
Galaxy. The backdrop of the Orion Molecular Cloud obscures
everything that lies behind it, which is very useful because it
means that all the objects seen in this part of the sky are
members of the cluster, except for perhaps a handful which lie
in the foreground.

Because brown dwarfs and free floating planets quickly cool down,
they are easiest to find when they are young and still retain
some heat from the formation process. The objects in the
Trapezium cluster are mostly about one million years old - very
young compared to the five-billion-year age of the Sun.

An interesting feature of this study is that no planets have
been found under 8 Jupiter masses. It may indicate that there is
a limit to how small these free-floating planets can be but even
more sensitive surveys will be needed to confirm this. In the
meantime UKIRT has been used to obtain spectra of about twenty
of the brown dwarfs and planets. The results are still being
analysed but they show the signature of water vapour that is
expected in relatively cool stars and brown dwarfs, at a
temperature of a mere 2700 degrees Centigrade. The planets will
eventually cool down to earthly temperatures but it is unlikely
that they could ever sustain life. Although the total number of
brown dwarfs and planets in the Trapezium may be similar to the
number of stars, individually they have less mass. If this a
typical cluster, brown dwarfs and planets do not contribute
significantly to the dark matter that many astronomers believe
pervades the universe.

This survey is one of the first projects undertaken with the new
infrared camera UFTI, the UKIRT Fast Track Imager. It is the
most sensitive search yet conducted for low mass stellar and
sub- stellar objects. For all the objects they detected, Lucas
and Roche measured the strength of radiation given off at three
standard wavelengths in the near infrared (known as I, J and H).
They used this data to deduce the mass, luminosity and
temperature of the objects. UFTI was built by a team headed by
Roche and Lucas at Oxford University in 1998, with the help of
several British universities.

ILLUSTRATIONS
[The following sentence was edited by AAS to reflect the fact
that we do not forward attachments.  spm]

A low-resolution JPEG version and higher resolution versions may
be downloaded from the following web pages:

http://www-astro.physics.ox.ac.uk/~pwl/trapl.jpg
http://www-astro.physics.ox.ac.uk/~pwl/trapl.gif
http://www-astro.physics.ox.ac.uk/~pwl/trapl.tif

Caption: An infrared picture of the central part of the Orion
Nebula constructed from the three separate images taken with
UFTI (the UKIRT Fast Track Imager) on the United Kingdom
Infrared Telescope. The three colours used in this false colour
image (blue, orange and red) correspond to infrared radiation
with wavelengths twice as long. Hence, this picture shows Orion
as we would see it if our eyes were sensitive to light of twice
the wavelength they are actually capable of detecting. The
picture shows stars, brown dwarfs and planets together with
diffuse starlight, which is scattered by tiny particles of
cosmic dust, and light emitted by energised gas. Infrared images
are vital for this work, as they penetrate the dusty clouds and
are able to pick up faint objects which cannot be seen in
visible light images.

NOTES
1. Both UFTI and UKIRT are funded by the Particle Physics and
Astronomy Research Council.

2. The paper describing this work has been accepted for
publication in the Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical
Society, but the date of publication and is not yet available.

<snip>








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   Mar > Mar 22

             NASA's Response To Oberg's Mars Polar Lander Story

From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:10:22 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:15:45 -0500
Subject: NASA's Response To Oberg's Mars Polar Lander Story


Peggy Wilhide
Headquarters, Washington, DC             March 22, 2000
(Phone: 202/ 358-1898)

Brian Welch
Headquarters, Washington, DC
(Phone: 202/ 358-1600)

Don Savage
Headquarters, Washington, DC
(Phone: 202/ 358-1547)

RELEASE: 00-43

NASA'S RESPONSE TO UPI'S MARCH 21 MARS POLAR LANDER STORY

James Oberg of UPI claims that NASA knew there was a problem
with the Mars Polar Lander propulsion system prior to the Dec. 3
landing attempt and "withheld this conclusion from the public."
NASA categorically denies this charge.  Here's what NASA did and
what NASA said:

*   The Stephenson report, phase 1, was released to the public
on November 10, 1999 during a press conference at NASA
Headquarters.

*   The report made 11 different references to technical issues
or concerns involving the propulsion system and the Entry,
Descent and Landing (EDL) sequence.

*   This issue was specifically addressed in the press
conference and in "MPL Observation No. 5" and other public
recommendations of the Stephenson Phase 1 report.  It was
entitled, "Cold Firing of Thrusters," and dealt in detail with
the catalyst bed issue cited by Mr. Oberg of UPI in his March 21
story, "NASA Knew Mars Polar Lander Doomed."

*   Had UPI researched the public documents released on Nov. 10,
which have been available online at the NASA Home Page, the
reporter would have been able to conclude that NASA did indeed
publicly address propulsion issues, and specifically, the
propulsion system's "catalyst bed" temperature concern.

*   Based on this review, NASA knew about the concerns with the
propulsion system, NASA took corrective action, and NASA hid
nothing from the public.  We made our concerns known in early
November.

*   Several failure scenarios have been reported in the press
over the last few weeks, including the lander legs microswitch
issue.  Outlets such as the Denver Post, Space Daily, and
National Public Radio's "All Things Considered" have covered
this angle.  There is nothing new in the UPI report relating to
this specific issue.  The lander legs issue is among the failure
modes we are studying.

*   Both the Stephenson and Casani (John Casani, retired JPL
flight programs head and also director of mission assurance)
teams have conducted intensive reviews relating to Mars Polar
Lander, and their teams have surfaced no evidence relating to
thruster acceptance testing irregularities as alleged by UPI.
In fact, members of the review teams are using words like
"bunk," "complete nonsense," and "wacko," to describe their
reactions to UPI's charge.

                                - end -

                             * * *

NASA press releases and other information are available
automatically by sending an Internet electronic mail message to
domo@hq.nasa.gov. In the body of the message (not the subject
line) users should type the words "subscribe press-release" (no
quotes).  The system will reply with a confirmation via E-mail
of each subscription.  A second automatic message will include
additional information on the service. NASA releases also are
available via CompuServe using the command GO NASA.









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   Mar > Mar 23

                                Re: Reed Hoax

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 02:00:45 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:19:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Reed Hoax


 >Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:15:30 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:23:08 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:05:37 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >To Robert Gates and the List,

 >I think that you just gave a good illustration of the
 >"Hoax-Debunking scenario", which we could also call the "Rotten
 >Apple scenario" : if I find a rotten apple in the barrel I throw
 >them all out.

I didn't throw them all out, merely talked about how the
organizers of this so called conference went out of their way to
trot out a guy whose information can't be verified, whose story
doesn't and can't be verified _but_ they want him to speak at a
serious conference.

I predict that if this guy was considered to be "popular" by the
conference organizers, they will invite more of these guys. Its
called pander to whom and whatever gives us the most popularity,
which translates to $ in our pocket.

 >What is the sceenario in this case ?

The people who created the scenario were the conference
organizers, who demonstrate that they don't have problems
offering fiction mixed with facts and serious speakers. It
leaves the suggestion that they don't care whether its fact,
fiction or what, just who or whatever will give the biggest
entertaining show.

 >A dubious speaker is invited at a convention, together with
 >about thirty others. You are right to lament that he was well
 >received by the audience (I can confirm that since I was there :

As I have said many times, many dubious speakers are well
received by the audience until what they say is so obviously
phony or doesn't happen, then the same gulliable people focus
their attention on the next entertaining story that comes along.

 >I glanced five minutes in the room to check that). But I can
 >also tell you that many speakers did not buy it (I checked that
 >too).

 >Never mind, your mind is set already.

 >They have invited Reed, therefore there was nothing good there :

They knowing invited a guy whose own credentials and story
doesn't check out _and_ they knew that in advance.  Some folks
have said that doesn't say much  about the people doing the
inviting.

 >>Being that the organizers of this conference seem to want people
 >>whose credentials don't check out, and whose very basic story
 >>doesn't check out, kind of tells me the conference is not a
 >>serious conference, but a UFO entertainment show.

 >And that's what is so devastating. There were some very
 >interesting presentations there, but do you care to know? The
 >only mails I have seen on this list are to laugh at Reed and the
 >Laughlin congress.

If Reed and his show got alot of interest and entertainment
value, nexts years conference will likely have two or three
speakers with dubious tales and credentials speaking, all the
while the truly worth while speakers will get bumped.

I don't doubt that their were good speakers, _but_ we are seeing
the very beginning of a good/serious UFO congress turning into a
UFO entertainment show unless something changes because of all
the Reed commentary.

Cheers,

Robert







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   Mar > Mar 23

                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 12

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:59:40 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:01:43 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 12


      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 5, Number 12
March 23, 2000
Editor: Joseph Trainor

Masinaigan@aol.com

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


MYSTERIOUS EXPLOSION
CAUSED THE FIRE AT THE
CHURCH IN UGANDA

      "Rutemba Didas heard what sounded like an
explosion, then saw black smoke billowing from the
brick structure on a hilltop compound where members
of a religious cult had been living for several years."
      ""The farmer and his neighbors heard screams
coming from the chapel" the morning of Friday,
March 17, 2000, "but they couldn't get close to the
new building where the members of the Movement for
the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God
lived in this remote corner of southwestern Uganda."
      "'We did not see any person running away.  We
really don't know what happened to the leaders,' Didas
said, standing a short distance from where the charred
bodies lay spread across the floor of a 120-foot-by-30-
foot structure."
      "Circumstances surrounding the deaths--who the
dead were and how the fire was started--remain foggy."
      "Little was known about the cult, although it appeared
to incorporate Christian beliefs, and local farmers said
it was led by a former prostitute."
      The fire took place in Kanungu, a market town
about 320 kilometers (200 miles) southwest of Kampala,
the capital of Uganda.
      "In Kanungu, cult members locked themselves in
the chapel early Friday and nailed doors and windows
closed, then sang for a few hours before dousing
themselves in gasoline and paraffin and setting
themselves ablaze, said David Ssepppuuya, deputy
editor-in-chief of the government-owned New Vision
newspaper, quoting investigators."
      "'According to an eyewitness on the site,  they
came around and said farewell to the people and
they heard that the Virgin Mary would appear on
Friday, so they did expect to die on Friday,'
Sseppuuya said."
      "Didas said the cult was established in 1994
by former prostitute Credonia Mwerinde at her
family's compound."
      "He said members of the cult did not socialize
with others in the area and communicated only by
gesture, although they did sing and pray aloud.
The women wore white veils, and the men wore
black, green or red shirts, he said."
      "Local leaders said members of the sect
slaughtered their cattle and feasted for a week before
the fire, drinking soft drinks and singing religious
songs, according to the independent newspaper
The Monitor."
      "Cult members from inside and outside the
compound had been invited to a ceremony
Friday to inaugurate the chapel, which had been
built by Mwerinde over the graves of her parents."
      "In other building of the compound, there were
images of the Virgin Mary and several rosaries."
      "Tumwesigye Kajungu, a former schoolteacher
from the trading center who refused to join the cult,
said his wife and six children died in the blaze."
      "'I last saw my wife on March 8.  She told me
something was going to happen on the 15th.  And
if nothing happened, she would see me again,' he said."
      Uganda's Ministry of the Interior said they expected
the death toll to reach 330.
(Editor's Comment: Got the picture so far?  Another
group of kook Christians committed "mass suicide"
by setting themselves on fire.  But if that's the case,
then how do you explain this next report?)
      ""Prisoners dug a long trench Monday" March 20,
2000 "and a bulldozer shoveled charred corpses into
a common grave, the final resting place for hundreds
of members of a religious cult led by a former
prostitute.  Most of the victims apparently were women,
and police counted the bodies of 78 children, the
(Uganda) interior minister said."
      ""'These are the ones we could count,' Interior
Minister Edward Rugumayo said, 'The others are
unrecognizable.'"
      "Rugumayo spoke to reporters in Kampala after
inspecting the burned hulk of the church hall just
outside Kanungu...He said that in addition to the 330
bodies found after Friday's fire in the church, five
bodies were spotted through a hole in a nearby pit
latrine." (my emphasis--J.T.)
      "Rugumayo said police were sure there were
more bodies in the latrine, a walled communal
structure common in African villages but were
awaiting digging equipment to excavate the pit.  He
did not offer an explanation of how or when the
bodies got into the latrine."
      "In the last few months, Ugandan police had
dismantled two cults accused of being a menace
to themselves and the country."
      In September 1999, Ugandan police cracked down
on the Church of the Last Message of World Warning,
"whose members were accused of abducting children
and abusing minors..  This sect, located in a farm in
central Uganda, professes 'doomsday beliefs' under
the guidance of their 'prophet,' Wilson Bushara of
Bukhoto in Nakaseke County, Uganda."
      Members of the World Warning church are
exclusively Tutsi and Bahima indigenous people from
southern Uganda, Burundi, northern Tanzania and
eastern Zaire.
      In November 1999, Ugandan police "scattered an
illegal gathering of the cult which has grown around
the young prophet Nabassa Owajwa in western
Uganda.  This young woman, aged 19, claimed to
have died in 1996 but to have been resurrected by God
to exhort the masses to repent before the year 2000."
      Just over the border from Kanungu, in the
neighboring African nation of Rwanda, the Virgin
Mary (formerly known as Miriam bat-Joachim--J.T.)
appeared to a teenaged girl named Marie Clare from
1980 to 1985 and left several messages.  In one
message, the apparition claimed she would return
to Africa "in twenty years' time," i.e. the year 2000.
(See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for March 20,
2000, "Cult fire death count could hit 470,' page 3A
and March 21, 2000, "Uganda cult deaths," page 2A.
Also thanks to Scott Corrales for the EKE news story.)
(Editor's Comment:  Here we go again.  Another
unpopular religious sect wiped out by forces unknown,
just like Heaven's Gate in 1997 and the Branch
Davidians at Waco, Texas in 1993.  The motive is
clear.  Somebody wanted to halt the Marian
apparition in Kanungu.  But you have to wonder
what secret tribunal vetoed the continued existence.
of Ms. Mwerinde's sect.  This appears to be Bogus
Suicides Week.  Check out what's going down
in Canton. Ohio.)

UFO WITNESS SLAIN IN
SUSPICIOUS PLUNGE
FROM HOSPITAL WINDOW

      "A 39-year-old Guernsey County patient at
Marcy Medical Center" in Canton, Ohio
(population 64,161) somehow got through the
open window of his ninth floor room yesterday
(Monday, March 13, 2000) and plunged seven
stories to an adjacent roof."
      "The men, from Kimbolton, was declared dead
at the scene.  Canton police found a bag of his
clothing next to the body.  He was wearing his
hospital gown."
      "Stark County coroner's investigator William
Dishong said there was no evidence of a struggle
or foul play.  However, police are investigating
to determine if it was a suicide or a criminal act."
      "Relatives said they were planning to bring the
man home from the hospital yesterday when they
heard of the accident, which happened about
8:30 a.m."
      "A cousin, William Robert Juergens, said
hospital officials" claimed that the patient "was
'seeing flying saucers' and was agitated the night
before."
      "'I don't understand why they didn't have him
psychologically evaluated,' Juergens said, 'I was
told that he was pacing all night, that he wasn't
sleeping.'"
      "Canton Detective Capt. James Myers said
the man took his action quickly.  The other patient
in the semi-private room with him was not aware of
what happened."
      "Dishong said the man apparently closed the
curtain separating the beds.  He said a nurse had been
in the room...two minutes before the patient was
discovered missing.  The nurse said the window was
closed at that time.  But when she returned, the window
was open, and the man was gone."
      "'I don't remember any other incident where anyone
jumped at a hospital,' Myers said."
(Editor's Comment: Memo to Captain Myers--In 1949,
former Secretary of the Navy James D. Forrestal
jumped out of a high window at the Bethesda Naval
Hospital in Maryland.  Of course, some people say
Forrestal had a little help when he "jumped.")
      "The horizontal windows on this floor slide up and
down rather than swinging out.  They are kept locked
with special keys.  No one could explain yesterday
how the window became unlocked. (my emphasis--J.T.)
Myers said the window was not broken."
      "The man had been injured from a four-car auto
accident Friday (March 10, 2000) in Plain Township,
but it was not reported that he was disoriented."
      "Stark County Sheriff Timothy Swanson said
witnesses reported that he was doing between 60 and
70 miles per hour on Cleveland Avenue near the
North Canton city limits with his headlights off."
(Editor's Comment:  Makes you wonder what he was
running from, doesn't it?)
      "He struck several orange construction barrels
before hitting another car head-on.  Two other cars
were involved in the accident, which occurred at
8:42 p.m."
      "No one was seriously injured.  Swanson said
there were no signs of drug or alcohol use."
      According to Juergens, the patient "was never
married and had no children but lived with a dog named
Toto.  He had a high-pressure job as an accountant
for several oil firms in Houston and Venezuela until
about two years ago, Juergens said.  Since then, he
had delivered pizzas in Cambridge," Ohio.
      "'Everyone I speak with is trying to say je jumped,
and I can't see him doing that.  He just wasn't that
kind of person,' Juergens said, 'He had some mental
problems.  He had some breakdown, but he never hurt
himself or anyone else.  He was more concerned with
getting home to get his dog fed.'"  (See the Akron,
Ohio Beacon-Journal for March 14, 2000, "Fall kills
hospital patient in Canton" by John Higgins and Andale
Gross.  Many thanks to Kenneth Young of Cincinnati
UFO Research for forwarding the newspaper article.)

SMALL DELTA-SHAPED UFO
SEEN IN ROCHESTER, N.Y.

      On Wednesday, March 15, 2000, around 6:30 p.m.,
M.J.C. decided to go for a hike in the woods near his
apartment complex.  He lives about a half-mile from
Expressway 590 in the south side of Rochester, N.Y.
(population 231,700), just north of the town landfill
belonging to the neighboring community of
Brighton, N.Y. (population 34,500).
      "That evening I started hiking through the woods on
a trail which starts at the back of my apartment complex
and skirts north along the edge of the Brighton landfill.
The trail eventually works its way down to a very
shallow stream at the bottom of a ravine," Mike reported.
      "Eventually I decided to leave the trail and head
right down to the stream itself.  I proceeded to tiptoe
downstream on some of the rocks and then climbed
over downed trees before deciding the path was
getting a bit too soggy and obstructed for my liking.
Instead of hiking back on the trail I'd taken, I decided
to take a 'shortcut' back to the landfill."
      Following a very steep climb out of the ravine,
he "walked through the woods headed in the direction
of the road which runs through the landfill proper.
However, after the climb, I was all out of breath and
had to take a standing rest behind a pile of rocks."
      "Glancing up ahead, some movement caught
my eye.  Something dark up in the air.  First I thought
it might be a kite, then a balloon, then a bird.  Finally,
as it drew closer, the only possibility that I hadn't
eliminated was a radio-controlled model of some sort.
But then again, what kind of radio-controlled plane is
absolutely silent?"
      "The object was totally black in color and flat on
the underside.  The closest thing that I could say the
craft resembled was the Stealth fighter plane, but it
was quite scaled down in size.  Although it's difficult to
estimate size against a background of clouds, the
object was eventually close enough to me where I'm
confident in saying it wasn't more than six feet
(1.8 meters) long, and my best guess is that it was
only four feet (1.3 meters) long."
      "The object looked very much like a black
arrowhead in shape, complete with an
arrowhead's notch toward the rear.  But it also
presented a multi-faceted design on top, similar
to the Stealth's anti-radar deflective design.
However, the ends of the object appeared to have
a clean edge but I noticed they were partially
ragged, as in the difference between a standard
pyramid and the stepped look of a South American
(Mayan, Toltec or Aztec--J.T.) pyramid.  Although the
effect was mere detail, I thought it was worth
mentioning."
      "As the object glided directly past me, I could
begin to see what clearly looked to be windows
arrayed in a hexagon-shaped dome on top.  Now
picture a Stealth cockpit positioned directly in the
middle of the craft with these same types of windows
being on all sides."
      "The object was traveling at a constant speed
and altitude, absolutely level.  The degree of steadiness
it showed combined with the fact that it was moving over
a long distance without making a sound made it seem
utterly unnatural to me.  It also flew at a very low
altitude, perhaps a mere 30 to 50 feet above the
highest treetops.  I'd estimate the speed to be around
10 miles per hour (16 kilometers per hour).  It traveled
at the same speed throughout the entire sighting which
lasted maybe 45 seconds."
      "I watched it glide past me and then over the
ravine.  After another 15 seconds, I could no longer
see it beyond the treeline, but it was headed directly
toward the 590 Expressway which is located
approximately a half-mile (0.8 kilometers) away."
      Rochester is on Interstate Highway I-90
approximately 359 miles (574 kilometers)
northwest of New York City. (Email Interview)
(Editor's Comment:  This is not an aircraft as we
understand the term.  At such a low airspeed, any
plane would stall and drop out of the sky.  The
UFO obviously was using some other means
of "lift" than its wings.)

FOUR DISCS VIDEOTAPED IN
SMITHVILLE, INDIANA

      On Sunday, March 12, 2000, at 8:30 p.m.,
Indiana ufologist John Tosti "spotted two illuminated
objects outside his home near Smithville,
Indiana (population 90), a small town 65 miles
(104 kilometers) south of Indianapolis.
      Tosti reported that "the objects were hovering
just slightly above a nearby tree line.  He was in the
process of videotaping them when two more
appeared from out of nowhere, also with no
accompanying sound."
      "Less than a quarter-mile distant," Tosti
"could make out the outlines of the second pair,
which he described as 'huge disks.'  He commented
that they had what looked like 'headlights' coming
out of them."
      "At this point, John turned his attention and his
video camera toward the new arrivals," reported
fellow ufologist Lynn Taylor, publisher of the UFO
newsletter, The Sentinel Files.
      "He was still taping when a small yellowish object
'shot out' of one of the disks, straight toward him."
      "That kind of scared me," Tosti reportedly said.
      "Then, as suddenly as the huge disks appeared,
they 'blacked out' and were gone.  When he looked
around for the first two objects, they were nowhere to
be found."  (See The Sentinel Files for march 18,
2000.  Many thanks to editor Lynn Taylor for letting
UFO Roundup quote from the newsletter.)

MYSTERY METEOR CAUSES
BIG BLAZE IN ARKANSAS

      "A mysterious fire scorched forty acres early
Friday morning (March 10, 2000) before emergency
workers controlled it, central Arkansas officials said."
      "The Pulaski County Emergency Management
Dept. responded to the fire just before midnight a
few miles south of England (population 3,351) when
a call alerted officials to a probable plane crash,
Emergency Management Director Kathy Botsford
said."
      "No evidence of a plane crash was found."
      "The fire burned parts of Pulaski, Lonoke and
Jefferson Counties.  Most of the damage was
centered on land in Jefferson County, which is in
charge of the investigation, according to Lt.
Eugene Butler of the county's sheriff's office."
      "Only one house sits near the 150-foot-wide,
mile-long area that burned, but no damage was
reported to the building."
      "A pipeline explosion was also suggested as
the cause of the fire, but Botsford said the contents
of the pipes running through the area are non-
flammable and the company that owns the pipeline
said no leaks had been detected."
      "Several people in the area reported seeing
shooting stars between 9 and 10 p.m., but Botsford
was skeptical of the meteorite theory."
      "'I just doubt this possibility at this point,' Botsford
said, 'We're just not really sure what started the fire.'"
      "Butler said he had reports of a 'mushroom-type
ball of fire' in the area before the fire, but he couldn't
say how it started."
      "'Right now we're just trying to find the origin
of the fire,' Butler said."
      "Pulaski County Sheriff's Office spokesman John
Rehrauer said he saw something in the sky while driving
in Little Rock--25 miles (40 kilometers) northwest of
England--around 8 p.m."
      "''I was driving down the freeway, and it caught my
eye,' Rehrauer said, ''I said to my wife, 'That was a
bright shooting star.''"  (See the Arkansas Democrat-
Gazette for March 11, 2000, "Strange blaze near
England puzzles police."  Many thanks to Errol Bruce-
Knapp for forwarding the newspaper story.)

ANOTHER UFO REPORTED IN
NEW SOUTH WALES

      On January 30, 2000, at about 4 a.m., an adult
male "was at his factory in" Brookvale, New South
Wales, Australia, and saw orange-sphere UFOs
"from his window.  He got in his car and drove to
Beacon Hill for a better vantage point.  At the time,
they were doing strange manoeuvres as if surveying
certain areas west of Sydney.  He watched them for
around an hour until he couldn't see them any more."
(Many thanks to Tricia Down Under for this report.)

TWO CROP CIRCLES APPEAR
IN EASTERN SPAIN

      "Two large crop circles of unknown origin have
appeared in a wheat field near Els Omellons,"
near Las Garrigues in Spain's Barcelona Province.
      "Their symmetry and size has caused them
to be compared to UFO landing circles.  The
circles are 36 and 26 meters (118 and 85 feet)
in diameter.."
      However, the Spanish newspaper El Periodico
suggested that it was a hoax, pointing out that
"Authorities and local residents believe it is all
hooliganism.  The photo shows the local alcalde
(mayor) pointing at the circles."  (See the
newspaper El Periodico for March 11, 2000,
"A false UFO frightens Las Garrigues."  Muchas
gracias a Scott Corrales, autor de los libros
Chupacabras and Other Mysteries y Forbiden
Mexico para esta historia.)

READER FEEDBACK:
      The recent story on youthful Fatima seer
Jacinta Marto drew some commentary.  (See
UFO Roundup, Volume 5, Number 10.)
      Joaquim Fernandes of the University of
Fernando Pessoa in Porto, Portugal writes,
"The article about Jacinta is accurate."  He
adds that a good book on Fatima is available
over the Internet.  It's entitled As Aparicoes de
Fatima o Fenomeno OVNI?  You can ask about
the book at this email address--estampa@mail.
telepac.pt
      Debra S. writes, "I didn't know the Fatima
children were jailed.  Jacinta, Lucia and
Francisco should have been singing this...
"Johnnie Cochrane, you are a friend of mine/
You come to free us when we get into a bind/
You're the best./You're my friend./Mi amigo!"
      Very funny, Deb.  You know, if O.J. Simpson
could sing, he could move to Branson and turn
that into his first hit platinum CD.

from the UFO Files...

1966: STRANGE ENCOUNTER
           IN NEWPORT, OREGON

      If there's an award for the weirdest-looking aliens
ever to appear on Earth, the Newport Three are a
cinch to win.
      Newport, Oregon (population 9,000) is a scenic
port city on Oregon's Pacific Ocean coastline, which
has been a summer resort community for well over a
century.
      In 1874, Newport was the scene of one of the
strangest disappearance cases on record.  Muriel
Trevenard, a 16-year-old girl, vanished from the third
floor of the old Yaquina Bay lighthouse, and she was
never seen again.  (For details, see UFO Roundup,
Volume 5, Number 11.)
      By 1966, however, there was nobody left alive
who remembered the strange case of Muriel
Trevenard.  The case had been relegated to local
folklore and pretty nearly forgotten.
      But then, in April 1966, strange phenomena
began again in Newport.
      On April 5, 1966, there was a miniature UFO flap
here in the USA.  Saucers were sighted in Alto,
Tennessee and Lycoming, New York, with both
cases ultimately being reported as "unknowns"
in Project Blue Book.
      That evening, in Newport, 16-year-old Kathy
Reeves and another teenaged girl were walking
home to Kathy's house on Pioneer Mountain
when the girls had "a funny feeling" that they
were being followed.
      Coming to a bend in the road, Kathy and
her friend looked back and "saw what appeared to be
a flashlight with a cover over the end."
      "'I thought it was somebody playing a trick, so
I threw a rock at the light.  A lot of big ones went on
all around it, and we ran home.'"
      What they saw next, however, brought both
girls to a screeching halt.  Three weird shapes
were moving across a pasture, heading for the
multi-colored lights further downslope.  Kathy
blinked in disbelief.  Aliens!
      Indeed, these were the strangest-looking
aliens ever seen in the fifty years since Roswell.
Afterward, Kathy described them as "three little
tree stumps" that "walked across the pasture."
The entities had neither heads nor arms, and
their legs resembled the taproots of a tree trunk.
She added that the trio seemed to be wearing
multicolored clothing, "orange, blue, white, yellow
and watermelon-colored."
      Screaming, the girls ran upslope to the house
at top speed.
      In the days that followed, there were several
"poltergeist" experiences in the Reeves's home.
      According to author Jim Brandon, "The Reeves
family were harassed to the point of moving out of
their home on Pioneer Mountain.  Before that, however,
a number of people studied the goings-on."
      "Max W. Taylor, a chemist for the Georgia-Pacific
Corporation, camped out on the Reeves front lawn
and was rewarded by seeing what he described as
'two bluish lights' perched on the roof one night."
      "Deputy Sheriff Thomas W. Price saw a flying
object.  'I don't know what it was, but it was orange
and it was bigger than any star.  I know it wasn't a
meteor or a satellite because it was maneuvering
There was a noise like a giant spinning top.  It made
the hair stand up on the back of my neck.'"
      "After the Reeveses left, the new owner, Delbert
Mapes, said the freak show seemed to have left
with them."
      Of course, no one was able to explain why the
picturesque fishing town of Newport, Oregon became
the locale of not one but two paranormal cases
ninety years apart.  Or why both cases involved
sixteen-year-old girls.
      File under Mysteries of the Pacific Northwest.
(See the book Weird America by Jim Brandon,
E.P. Dutton, New York, N.Y., 1978, pages 189
and 190.  Also Project Blue Book, edited by Brad
Steiger, Ballantine Books, New York, N.Y., 1976,
page 369.  Also the Spokane, Wash. Spokesman-
Review for October 18, 1966, page 1.)

      Join us next week for more UFO and paranormal
news from around the Earth, brought to you by "the
paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2000 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in
newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of issue in
which the item first appeared.





*********************************************************
IMPORTANT Please Read:
======================

The Hunger Site
---------------
http://www.thehungersite.com

Every 3.6 seconds somebody starves to death. 3/4 of the
deaths are children under 5. By visiting the Hunger Site
and clicking on a button you can donate free food.

There is absolutely no charge to you for the donation -
the food is paid for by sponsors.

Do this once a day (no more) and help make a difference!
If you have a web site download a banner and give a link!
*********************************************************

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm


Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of the UK UFO Network Bulletin,
AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences,
UFO + PSI Magazine also available, plus archives of
Filer's Files.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Mar > Mar 23

                             Re: FUFOR Web Site

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:12:31 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:08:13 -0500
Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site


 >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:02:35 -0500
 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Subject: FUFOR Web Site
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Following a month of frustration, the Fund for UFO Research web
 >site is back on line.  However, the URL has been changed to

 >www.fufor.com

 >To make a long story short, the Domain Name that had been
 >registered (fufor.org) apparently lapsed at the same time as the
 >provider contract and became available before we had realized
 >what happened.  When I attempted to re-register the name I found
 >that a speculator had grabbed it several days before and
 >fufor.org was no longer available.  We may attempt to re-secure
 >that name, but the process could drag on for a while and we
 >wanted to get the site back up and running as quickly as we
 >could.

Don't give in to them Steven. I'm sure there are a lot of us out
there who have registered domains then received 'junk mail' from
speculators telling us to register (in my case) the .net and
.org domains as well.

A quick check shows that they had already registered them and
were obviously expecting my 'business' to pay up. Let them sit
on the domains, this is a hobby not a business and I think that
trying to buy it back is going to cost a *lot* of money.

I live in London, England and have received a phone call from a
company allegedly on Wall Street trying to get financial
information from me for investing purposes. When I told the
person that I do not have that sort of money he told me I had
invested before (I haven't) and my company UFOINFO is on the
Wall Street list!

He seemed a bit surprised when I explained what UFOINFO is <g>.

Don't worry about people having to update links, that's what
trying to keep a website up to date is all about. I'm sure the
majority will be on your side in this case.

Best wishes,

John Hayes

ufoinfo@ukgateway.net
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, UK UFO Network Bulletin,
AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI
Magazine plus archives of Filer's Files.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Mar > Mar 23

                             Re: FUFOR Web Site

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:19:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:28:39 -0500
Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site


 >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:12:31 +0000
 >From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
 >Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Don't give in to them Steven. I'm sure there are a lot of us out
 >there who have registered domains then received 'junk mail' from
 >speculators telling us to register (in my case) the .net and
 >.org domains as well.

 >A quick check shows that they had already registered them and
 >were obviously expecting my 'business' to pay up. Let them sit
 >on the domains, this is a hobby not a business and I think that
 >trying to buy it back is going to cost a *lot* of money.

 >I live in London, England and have received a phone call from a
 >company allegedly on Wall Street trying to get financial
 >information from me for investing purposes. When I told the
 >person that I do not have that sort of money he told me I had
 >invested before (I haven't) and my company UFOINFO is on the
 >Wall Street list!

 >He seemed a bit surprised when I explained what UFOINFO is <g>.

 >Don't worry about people having to update links, that's what
 >trying to keep a website up to date is all about. I'm sure the
 >majority will be on your side in this case.


Thanks for your words of encouragement. We have no intention of
letting these people profit from this. If the name becomes
available in the future we will likely secure it to control the
FUFOR name, but even though we're a non-profit group we can live
the .COM extension.

Steve







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   Mar > Mar 24

                                Re: Reed Hoax

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:57:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:00:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Reed Hoax


 >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 02:00:45 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:15:30 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Reed Hoax
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >The people who created the scenario were the conference
 >organizers, who demonstrate that they don't have problems
 >offering fiction mixed with facts and serious speakers. It
 >leaves the suggestion that they don't care whether its fact,
 >fiction or what, just who or whatever will give the biggest
 >entertaining show.

 >>A dubious speaker is invited at a convention, together with
 >>about thirty others. You are right to lament that he was well
 >>received by the audience (I can confirm that since I was there :

 >As I have said many times, many dubious speakers are well
 >received by the audience until what they say is so obviously
 >phony or doesn't happen, then the same gulliable people focus
 >their attention on the next entertaining story that comes along.

<snip>

 >I don't doubt that their were good speakers, _but_ we are seeing
 >the very beginning of a good/serious UFO congress turning into a
 >UFO entertainment show unless something changes because of all
 >the Reed commentary.

I'm not saying discount them all either. I'm simply saying that
a little common sense needed to be applied here. I've mentioned
the grossly ignorant mistake of inviting Lee Shargel to a IUFOC
event to speak. A degree in Egyptian Quantum Mechanics...? Ring
any bells?

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy - "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind."
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3  (eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog (UFO Hall o' Shame)









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   Mar > Mar 24

                  Re: Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:16:16 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:06:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article


 >Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:54:33 -0500
 >From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
 >Subject: Re: Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article
 >To: 'UFO UpDates - Toronto' <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:41:24 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: James Oberg <JamesOberg@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Mars Probe Coverup
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>A real NASA coverup!!!

 >>NASA knew Mars Polar Lander doomed
 >>United Press International - March 21, 2000 15:01
 >
 >>By James Oberg, UPI Space Writer

 ><snip>

 >Hmmm ... & NASA responds!

 >http://marslander.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news69.html

 >I wonder if this is a Grand Conspiracy on NASA's part to make
 >it look like Mr. Oberg _isn't_ their head Disinformation Agent!

Read the article by Mr. Oberg again. The conclusion appears to
be quite obvious, at least it does to me. It appears to be an
attempt to discredit those who have discredited Oberg. What a
neat arrangement, eh?

Les Oberge de deux Signa turns out to wear a white hat after
all. The plops thicken. This scenario is neither new nor is it
unique to the more "modern" NASA. It was way back in 1966, when
I was assigned to unmanned spacecraft as a systems integration
engineer, that I and another engineer were looking for
"catastrophic failure mechanisms" in various important circuits
which both NASA as well as Grumman figured in the failure of the
first flight article. I was still in college when that happened,
but when ol' Morty arrived on the scene, full of piss and
gripple, he was gonna fix ALL the problems for everybody.

Thank God youth only comes once. It is however, too bad that it
comes in the beginning, because then you have a lifetime left
over in which to wanna crawl under a blankey and suck your thumb
for all your naivete'.

That circuit we discovered, would have blown all the dry
nitrogen thrusters, low and high thrust, run up the intertia
wheels and drain the batteries dry before they even had a chance
to charge the sucker up again.

NASA would have no part of it. "The chances of that circuit
failing are astronomically low... blah, blah, etc., etc." Just
let it go little boy, we'll take care of it (heh, heh). Well,
the next one flew and the circuit blew just like we said it
could. NASA did not want to fix it. Would've cost too much to
redesign everything as a result of fixing this problem. Besides,
if we didn't launch now, the whole program might go away for
lack of funding.

Let her rip. And hope for a miracle. Well, there was one. A
miracle. The miracle was that they got away with it again and
again and again.

OAO, Challenger, Mars... God knows how long the list is.
Conspiracy or maybe just very bad management and a system which
rewards the beast for keeping it's mouth shut. These are some of
their favorite things.

Jim Mortellaro










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   Mar > Mar 24

                          Oberg - NASA Fights Back

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:04:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:09:31 -0500
Subject: Oberg - NASA Fights Back


Hello everyone.

Below is the response from NASA to Jim Oberg's UPI story of
their coverup regarding the loss of the Mars Polar Lander.

Stay tuned for the truth...

Nick Balaskas


----------

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:05:02 -0500
From: Joseph O'Neil <joneil@MULTIBOARD.COM>
To: RASCALS@ap.stmarys.ca
Subject: [RASCALS] NASA ights back

NASA's Response to
UPI's March 21 Mars
Polar Lander story

James Oberg of UPI claims that NASA knew there was a problem
with the Mars Polar Lander propulsion system prior to the Dec. 3
landing attempt and "withheld this conclusion from the public."
NASA categorically denies this charge. Here's what NASA did and
what NASA said:

The Stephenson report, phase 1, was released to the public on
November 10, 1999 during a press conference at NASA
Headquarters.

The report made 11 different references to technical issues or
concerns involving the propulsion system and the Entry, Descent
and Landing (EDL) sequence.

This issue was specifically addressed in the press conference
and in "MPL Observation No. 5" (page 32 of the report) and other
public recommendations of the Stephenson Phase 1 report. It was
entitled, "Cold Firing of Thrusters," and dealt in detail with
the catalyst bed issue cited by Mr. Oberg of UPI in his March 21
story, "NASA Knew Mars Polar Lander Doomed."

Had UPI researched the public documents released on Nov. 10,
which have been available online at the NASA Home Page, the
reporter would have been able to conclude that NASA did indeed
publicly address propulsion issues, and specifically, the
propulsion system's "catalyst bed" temperature concern.

Based on this review, NASA knew about the concerns with the
propulsion system, NASA took corrective action, and NASA hid
nothing from the public. We made our concerns known in early
November.

Several failure scenarios have been reported in the press over
the last few weeks, including the lander legs microswitch issue.
Outlets such as the Denver Post, Space Daily, and National
Public Radio's "All Things Considered" have covered this angle.
There is nothing new in the UPI report relating to this specific
issue. The lander legs issue is among the failure modes we are
studying.

Both the Stephenson and Casani (John Casani, retired JPL flight
programs head and also director of mission assurance) teams have
conducted intensive reviews relating to Mars Polar Lander, and
their teams have surfaced no evidence relating to thruster
acceptance testing irregularities as alleged by UPI. In fact,
members of the review teams are using words like "bunk,"
"complete nonsense," and "wacko," to describe their reactions to
UPI's charge.

http://www.oneilphoto.on.ca
http://www.multiboard.com/~joneil









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                  Re: Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article

From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@pobox.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:58:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:11:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article


 >Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:54:33 -0500
 >From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
 >Subject: Re: Oberg's 'Mars Probe Coverup' Article
 >To: 'UFO UpDates - Toronto' <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:41:24 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: James Oberg <JamesOberg@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Mars Probe Coverup
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>A real NASA coverup!!!

 >>NASA knew Mars Polar Lander doomed
 >>United Press International - March 21, 2000 15:01

 >>By James Oberg, UPI Space Writer

 ><snip>

 >Hmmm ... & NASA responds!

 >http://marslander.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news69.html

 >I wonder if this is a Grand Conspiracy on NASA's part to make it
 >look like Mr. Oberg _isn't_ their head Disinformation Agent!

I think it is a clear sign that Oberg is on NASA's shit list!



Roger R. Prokic
Principal RF Systems Engineer
Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp.
Boulder, Colorado USA
-=[sent from a Palm IIIxe & Multimail Pro v3.11A]=-










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   Mar > Mar 25

                        Jan 5 Illinoisa Pix Of Stars?

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:48:49 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 07:12:35 -0500
Subject: Jan 5 Illinoisa Pix Of Stars?


Dear people:

The new March 2000 issue of MUFON UFO Journal has a cover
article by David Marler about the Jan 5, 2000, sightings in
downstate Illinois by five witnesses, including four police
officers.

On page 6 is a photograph said to have been taken with a
polaroid camera by officer Craig Stevens.  Rotate the picture 90
degrees counter-clockwise to view the picture the way I believe
it was seen in the northeastern sky. The camera may have been
held sideways or the picture rotated later.

Read the description of what the first, civilian, witness saw.
This matches his account of a "tall" object with two "stories"
with lights at either end. Also read the other accounts.

This object bears an uncanny resemblance to the constellation
Lyra, the Harp, with its bright, first magnitude star Vega, then
visible low in the northeastern sky.

Mr. Marler claims that the camera functioned poorly because of
the low (20-30 deg F) temperature.  I think that it functioned
quite well, but that Marler assumed that it didn't because it
only showed lights rather than the detailed object that he hoped
for.

The Polaroid camera lens is somewhat wide-angle and could have
introduced distortion, particularly if the image was near the
edge of the field.

I have carefully measured the distance between the lower two
"corner" images (as seen in the magazine article, horizontally
oriented, and compared them with the distance between the two
right hand "corner" images. I have compared these to
measurements of Lyra on a detailed star chart (AAVSO Star Atlas,
chart 48) and a published photograph (Burnham's Celestial
Handbook, p. 1145), both of which agree closely in relative
dimension.  Curiously, the UFO image is almost exactly (as
measured with my milimeter ruler) 100 percent sider,
horizontally.

The image is obviously a greatly magnified digitalized image
(pixels are visible) of the original.  I think it possible that
the image has been inadvertently stretched 100 per cent
horizontally with the image software.


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                  Snippets O' Saucer Smear Volume 47, No. 2

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:27:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:27:26 -0500
Subject: Snippets O' Saucer Smear Volume 47, No. 2

Source: Saucer Smear Volume 47, No. 2 - February 10th, 2000

http://www.martiansgohome.com/smear/v47/ss000210.htm


Editor And Still Supreme Commander: James W. Moseley, J.S.*


Short Smears

- Shamefully, the prestigious Franklin Mint is coming out with a
replica of the Roswell saucer, based on imput from four alleged
experts - Roswell witness Frank Kaufmann, another supposed
witness identified only as "Kewper", Sgt. Clifford Stone, and
(eek!) Linda Moulton Howe.

- Big Loser of the Month appears to be a UFO lecturer named
Lloyd Pye. As mentioned in previous "Smears", Pye obtained an
ancient skull from Mexico which he believed might be alien or an
alien hybrid. Unfortunately, DNA results so far indicate that
the skull in question is male and human. Even more
unfortunately, Pye has gone $50,000 into debt, in paying for all
this testing. Well, better luck next time! (This item lifted
from the Jan. 2000 MUFON Journal.)...

- Our favorite Y2K horror story: The item in our last issue
about Phil Klass of CSICOP and James Randi, formerly of CSICOP,
was taken from the Jan-Feb 2000 issue of "Skeptical Inquirer".
Karl Pflock received his copy in late December, and when ours
failed to arrive in the mail, he kindly loaned us his copy. As
of this writing (Jan. 27th), ours still hasn't arrived. Reason?
Terrible computer problems at CSICOP Headquarters. These began
shortly before the millennium and now are supposedly cured,
according to a spokesperson in their office. But isn't it a gas
that this strictly scientific organization was one of the very
few to suffer such persecution by the random forces of
(shudder!) Nature!


- Soon-to-be-retired pilot John Lear writes:

"Got your card. Enclosed is a few bucks to get back on your
List.

"As you probably already know, I did indeed drop out of Ufology
approximately ten years ago, due to the fact that you refused to
publish the New Yorker Magazine cartoon of me in 'Saucer Smear'.
It was a large emotional blow to me, not to mention a personal
and professional embarrassment, to be terminally snubbed by
someone who I thought was a good personal friend.

"I am still flying, having just turned 57. I only have three
more years to go, due to mandatory retirement for commercial
pilots at age 60. (Just another government conspiracy.)

"In preparation for retirement I purchased the Treasure Hawk
gold mine in Gold Butte, Nevada (220 acres). The Treasure Hawk
was a good producer in its day (1972-1986). However, the
previous owner neglected to share his wealth with the IRS and
ran into a few problems. He died in 1994 and I purchased it from
his wife in 1996. I have spent the last three years cleaning up
his mess and getting the millsite ready for production. As you
can imagine, with 28 separate agencies to report to and get
permission from, there is a lot of paperwork to do.

"I have also set my wife up in the movie studio business... It
keeps her busy and out of the gold mine..."


- Arch-skeptic Robert Sheaffer writes:

"...Re the Trent photos, Bruce Maccabee says that he
photographed the cloud that supposedly cast such sharp,
distinct, sun-like shadows on the eaves of his house at sunset,
and that 'it was not particularly remarkable'. I urge him to
contribute this discovery to journals of meteorology, as this
contradicts what the textbooks say....

"Folks, do try this at home. Try to find a single cloud at
sunset that casts sharp-edged shadows of the eaves of buildings.
It would be almost as remarkable as seeing a UFO. And in any
case, the paper on my web page www.debunker.com proves that the
supposed 'shining Trent cloud' could not possibly have appeared
much larger than the sun, and tiny clouds cast very little
light.

"Perhaps it was the Star of Bethlehem? I mean, if you're going
to invoke one miraculous event to explain this photo (an E.T.
craft), why stop at one?..."

---

*Who?

Moseley, James W., the founder of the Saucers and Unexplained
Celestial Events Research Society (SAUCERS). Since 1954 he has
published some variation of SAUCER News. For many years Moseley
was the primary mover and shaker in ufology in the New York
area. He was a fixture on early talk radio programs, and was an
intimate collaborator with the late Gray Barker. The wealthy son
of a U.S. Army General, Moseley has always approached the UFO
mystery with a note of humor and common-sense skepticism, which
has brought him more than a few critics. He has for many years
served as Chairman of the National UFO Conference.

                                 -Bishop Allen Greenfield,
                                 writing in his book, 'Secret
                                 Cipher Of The Ufonauts'

---

Smearscriptions

Letters for Smear editor James Moseley should be snail-mailed to:

PO Box 1709,
Key West, FL 33041,
USA

insofar as Cdr. Moseley is proudly computer-illiterate and
determined to stay that way.








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   Mar > Mar 25

                      Re: Jan 5 Illinois Pix Of Stars?

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:58:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:49:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Jan 5 Illinois Pix Of Stars?

 >Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:48:49 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Jan 5 Illinoisa Pix Of Stars?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Dear people:

 >The new March 2000 issue of MUFON UFO Journal has a cover
 >article by David Marler about the Jan 5, 2000, sightings in
 >downstate Illinois by five witnesses, including four police
 >officers.

 >On page 6 is a photograph said to have been taken with a
 >polaroid camera by officer Craig Stevens.  Rotate the picture 90
 >degrees counter-clockwise to view the picture the way I believe
 >it was seen in the northeastern sky. The camera may have been
 >held sideways or the picture rotated later.

 >Read the description of what the first, civilian, witness saw.
 >This matches his account of a "tall" object with two "stories"
 >with lights at either end. Also read the other accounts.

 >This object bears an uncanny resemblance to the constellation
 >Lyra, the Harp, with its bright, first magnitude star Vega, then
 >visible low in the northeastern sky.

 >Mr. Marler claims that the camera functioned poorly because of
 >the low (20-30 deg F) temperature.  I think that it functioned
 >quite well, but that Marler assumed that it didn't because it
 >only showed lights rather than the detailed object that he hoped
 >for.

 >The Polaroid camera lens is somewhat wide-angle and could have
 >introduced distortion, particularly if the image was near the
 >edge of the field.

 >I have carefully measured the distance between the lower two
 >"corner" images (as seen in the magazine article, horizontally
 >oriented, and compared them with the distance between the two
 >right hand "corner" images. I have compared these to
 >measurements of Lyra on a detailed star chart (AAVSO Star Atlas,
 >chart 48) and a published photograph (Burnham's Celestial
 >Handbook, p. 1145), both of which agree closely in relative
 >dimension.  Curiously, the UFO image is almost exactly (as
 >measured with my milimeter ruler) 100 percent sider,
 >horizontally.

 >The image is obviously a greatly magnified digitalized image
 >(pixels are visible) of the original.  I think it possible that
 >the image has been inadvertently stretched 100 per cent
 >horizontally with the image software.


Someone should find out what type of Polaroid.  Probably has
about 100 - 110mm focal length.

Then find out the actual spacing of the image dots on the
original picture (or find out the magnification factor of the
published print).

Then take the spacing of the dots on the original; and divide by
the focal length to get the angular spacing.

Make a point-by-point comparison with the spacings of the
suspected stars.

If the spacings agree... bingo.

If not, at least we have information to say "if it were X feet
away then the size was about Y" (projecting the angle out to
distance X) Why the invesigator didn't do this already I do not
know.









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   Mar > Mar 25

                        Jan 5 Illinois Pix Of Stars?

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:34:10 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 17:37:58 -0500
Subject: Jan 5 Illinois Pix Of Stars?


 >From: Bruce Maccabee
 >Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:58:08 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:49:18 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Jan 5 Illinois Pix Of Stars?

 >>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:48:49 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Bob Young
 >>Subject: Jan 5 Illinoisa Pix Of Stars?
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

Previously, Bob pointed out:

 >>On page 6 is a photograph said to have been taken with a
 >>polaroid camera by officer Craig Stevens.

Bruce suggested:

 >Someone should find out what type of Polaroid.
 >Probably has about 100 - 110mm focal length.

Hello Bruce, Bob and all...

Indeed, I'd like to know what kind of Polaroid was used since
the shot was most likely hand held. I have yet to see a hand
held Polaroid shot of the night sky turn out worth spit,
especially of something as faint as a star field.

Perhaps I'm being unduly cynical, but any time a Polaroid is
involved, little bells start going off in my head.....

later,

Roger Evans
Moviestuff, Houston TX








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               Re: The Unhappy Truth: ET Has No Home To Phone

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:47:33 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 17:42:37 -0500
Subject: Re: The Unhappy Truth: ET Has No Home To Phone


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >Source: The Toronto Star

 >http://www.thestar.com/editorial/news/20000325NEW01d_CI-ALONE.html

 >Saturday, March, 25th, 2000

 >Finally, The Unhappy Truth: ET Has No Home To Phone

 >By Lynda Hurst
 >Toronto Star Feature Writer

 >Ever look up into the starry, starry night and wonder who or
 >what - if anything - is out there?

 >Surely this little blue dot we're on can't contain the only
 >intelligent life in the universe.

 >We couldn't really be alone, could we?

 >We probably are, or as good as, according to a provocative new
 >book that's challenging the prevailing scientific wisdom that
 >our planet is surrounded by umpteen alien worlds, albeit
 >unheard-from to date.

But we are alone. No doubt about it. Let's make an assumption
just for the sake of the argument. Let's say there is no life
out there except for us. Let's say it's our purpose to go out
and populate the universe.

Us!

Then, if the above is true, then there is definitely _no_ God.
For no God could ever wish to infect His universe with the likes
of us. It's axiomatic.

In any case, we are alone.

OK. Now, let's say that there is life out there. They drop by or
even just monitor our broadcasts, "Lucy, I'm home!" or how about
a "Luscious Jackson" tune what got somehow broadcast on some
diluded frequency ... or "Lum 'n Abner" maybe.

If you were a life form which was even a bit more advanced than
us and you listened to this scheiss, what would you do? Huh?
Probably sneak off on tip toes and hope they didn't recognize
you. Or, figure, "hey, these idiots messed it up so much, we may
as jump in and see what we can do with this whacked out life
form!"

And we are alone anyway. I mean who would wanna come close
enough to be recognized?

One alien race says to the other, "Say, you seen them boogers on
that blue one, over there by that star, the yellow one?"

"Sure have, them peoples is nuts, don't go to close. THey shoot
first and then don't aks any questions either. Just keep
shootin!"

 >Rare Earth says that simple, microbial life is likely abundant
 >in the universe, but complex life - thinking beings like us -
 >is rare, if not unique.

Thinking beings like us? Holy cow. What a marvelous concept
about us! And unique is likely, but unique does not necessarily
mean alone. Just on porpoise.

Speaking of porpoises, why is it that these seeming brilliant
beasts don't say much except they play with us? Because they are a
lot smarter than that. They make believe they are just dumb,
cute animals.

Now that's smart.

Jim Mortellaro








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                             Re: FUFOR Web Site

From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:53:28 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:37:12 -0500
Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site


 >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:12:19 -0600
 >From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net>
 >Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:02:35 -0500
 >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >>Subject: FUFOR Web Site
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Following a month of frustration, the Fund for UFO Research web
 >>site is back on line. However, the URL has been changed to

 >>www.fufor.com

 >>To make a long story short, the Domain Name that had been
 >>registered (fufor.org) apparently lapsed at the same time as
 >>the provider contract and became available before we had
 >>realized what happened. When I attempted to re-register the
 >>name I found that a speculator had grabbed it several days
 >>before and fufor.org was no longer available. We may attempt to
 >>re-secure that name, but the process could drag on for a while
 >>and we wanted to get the site back up and running as quickly as
 >>we could.

 >This just brought to mind that, in the past, I know certain
 >'skeptic' groups have bought up domains of sites that were even
 >the least 'pro-ufo' as soon as they lapsed. Following that they
 >simply turned the site into a link to their own org/site,
 >thereby locking the name up and funnelling folks into their own
 >lil propoganda booth.

Tim,

Although it would be surprising if anyone was bothered to that
extent by on-line 'UFO' related material, maybe we can verify
this. Can you recall any specific examples?

If so inclined, it's possible to also register the more obvious
domains which might compromise existing, recognised sites. Some
examples: still available are the domains 'CUFOS.com',
'CUFOS.net', FUFOR.net', 'BUFORA.com', BUFORA.net', 'BUFORA.org'
and their respective '.co.uk' variants, all of which if properly
catalogued with search engines should feature prominently - the
'.coms' most of all - in searches for these organisations.
'FUFOR.com' was also of course available until registered on 16
March.

I have related business interests and recently conducted a
survey of the registration procedures employed by the top 100 US
and UK companies. The above is analogous to the situation with
many businesses. With few exceptions, companies and
organisations are only now realising that they absolutely must
register all top level domains - .com, .net and .org - not only
the one which primarily applies. In most cases it's already far
too late.

Even if a non-profit organisation, it's become essential to also
own the '.com' domain and personally, I would strongly advise
CUFOS to register 'CUFOS.com' without delay, especially as the
cost in doing so is negligible.

It's not the web site that's most significant - what happens to
mail which is incorrectly addressed? Although the correct e-mail
address may be held in an address book, I know from experience
how common it is for an e-mail address to be quickly typed and
the '.com' extension assumed.

Taking CUFOS as an example; if mail is currently sent to
'CUFOS.com', it will 'bounce' and the sender should become aware
of the problem. However, if 'CUFOS.com' is registered by someone
else and has a mailbox - which many domain registrars provide as
standard even if no web site exists - the mail is received by
the domain owner.

They might forward misdirected mail - assuming the intended
destination is clear - or they may not and simply delete it, in
which case, whomever sent that mail won't be notified it wasn't
received. If awaiting a reply which never materialises, the
sender might conclude that CUFOS aren't interested and reminders
could also go unanswered. Meantime, CUFOS know nothing about the
correspondence.

It does happen and I've come across several occurrences where
highly confidential mail is misaddressed like this. From my
experience, rarely is it forwarded.

Incredibly, it's clear from the research I conducted that the
entire issue isn't appreciated by even the largest companies
[senior management normally aren't familiar with Internet domain
issues and IT managers don't realise the business implications].
The situation is particularly chaotic when UK companies have
only registered the '.co.uk' domain and someone else now owns
the '.com' equivalent.

Bottom line - although the '.com' variant is strictly intended
for US companies, that's been overtaken by practicalities.
Register the '.com' address first of all and work backwards from
there, it no longer matters whether you are only an organisation
or resident outside the US.


 >I'm not saying this is what happened to you all, but it wouldn't
 >shock me. How 'skeptic' groups that claim to push critical
 >thinking and rationalism can 'sucker folks' in (and in my view,
 >basically censor others) like this is beyond me.

 >If anyone has any first hand experience with this sort of thing,
 >I'm sure more than a few of us would be ready to write a nasty
 >letter to the domain predators responsible.

There's one example I know of and it paradoxically relates to
CSICOP.

On 6 September, 1995 they duly registered 'CSICOP.org', however,
presumably didn't appreciate the necessity to at least also
cover the equivalent '.com' domain.

Consequently, on 24 January, 1999, 'CSICOP.com' and 'CSICOP.net'
were acquired by 'Riley G', supposed 'psychic' and 'remote
viewer', etc.

If you enter either of these CSICOP URLs, they will
automatically take you to his main web site, the similarly named
'www.psicop.com'. Realising the dangers, he has astutely also
registered 'PSICOP.net' and 'PSICOP.org'.

I think we can safely assume it's a deliberate ploy.

It also appears this conversely exemplifies an unquestionable
'skeptics' web site - the most prodigious one - being 'hijacked'
by 'UFO' interests, as I see Mr G states on his site:

"The real secret is that a UFO from another planet did crash
back in the year 1947, and yes there were alien beings captured
on scene, along with their dead. The aliens were in fact taken
to what is known as Area 51 for further review. Since then
several more Aliens landings have occurred around the world, and
key Government Officials from several nationals are aware of
this. We even have aliens living and sharing their technology
with us in Area 51 and several other classified military bases
in the USA and other countries".

Despite previous, universal acknowledgements that Area 51 didn't
actually exist in 1947 and one or two other slightly contentious
claims here, we can only note Mr G's credentials as a psychic,
remote viewer.

As requested, any examples of 'supportive' UFO web sites being
usurped by 'skeptics' would be of interest.


James Easton.
E-Mail: voyager@ukonline.co.uk









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   Mar > Mar 25

                        NASA Calls Batmobile Designer

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:50:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:50:31 -0500
Subject: NASA Calls Batmobile Designer




From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

Source: scifi.com

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/print.cgi?2000-03/23/10.30.tv

9:00am ET, 23-Mar-00

NASA Calls Batmobile Designer

NASA engineers have called Batman's car designer for advice on
building a new generation of exploration vehicles to traverse
Mars, according to the Space.com Web site. George Barris, the
designer who created the Batmobile for TV and movies, received
the call from engineers at the Johnson Space Center in Houston,
the site reported.

"I'm usually the one who gets the call from motion picture and
television studios to design and build vehicles for film and
TV," Barris, now in his late 70s, told Space.com. "This is the
first time I have been contacted by NASA for the real thing."

Engineers from NASA's Mars EVA (extra vehicular activity)
project office called Barris after they came across a model of
Barris' "Moon Scope," a full-size working six-wheeled vehicle
designed in the 1960s for lunar exploration. NASA is now
cooperating with Barris, who has given the space agency
permission to use any of his designs.

Barris is a longtime designer of fantastic vehicles for
Hollywood, including the Munsters' hearse, the Green Hornet's
car and Knight Rider's talking Trans Am. Barris is scheduled to
receive the Life Career Saturn Award from the Academy of Science
Fiction, Fantasy and Horror Films in June.








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   Mar > Mar 26

                             Re: FUFOR Web Site

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:09:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 06:31:15 -0500
Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site


 >Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:53:28 +0000
 >From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Although it would be surprising if anyone was bothered to that
 >extent by on-line 'UFO' related material, maybe we can verify
 >this. Can you recall any specific examples?

 >If so inclined, it's possible to also register the more obvious
 >domains which might compromise existing, recognised sites. Some
 >examples: still available are the domains 'CUFOS.com',
 >'CUFOS.net', FUFOR.net', 'BUFORA.com', BUFORA.net', 'BUFORA.org'
 >and their respective '.co.uk' variants, all of which if properly
 >catalogued with search engines should feature prominently - the
 >'.coms' most of all - in searches for these organisations.
 >'FUFOR.com' was also of course available until registered on 16
 >March.

 >I have related business interests and recently conducted a
 >survey of the registration procedures employed by the top 100 US
 >and UK companies. The above is analogous to the situation with
 >many businesses. With few exceptions, companies and
 >organisations are only now realising that they absolutely must
 >register all top level domains - .com, .net and .org - not only
 >the one which primarily applies. In most cases it's already far
 >too late.

<snip>

You can carry this to another level and really become paranoid
about the dangers that lurk in the shadows.  Many years ago
someone realized that people would often mistype the URL and
created a porn site that was reached via "www.yahhoo.com".  I
don't know how beneficial this was for visitation, but I found
myself staring at his opening screen in a state of shock before
I realized what I'd done and enterred the correct domain name.
So, it would seem that the more popular sites on the "net" would
need to also reserve any name that closely resembles their URL.

Of course, the point you make is very important.  The Mutual UFO
Network (MUFON) has registered "www.mufon.com", while
"www.mufon.org" was secured by the Missouri chapter.  To my
surprise "www.mufon.net" redirects your browser to
"www.alienimplants.com", which is a site maintained by Derrel
Sims.  So the potential problem is not only between the UFO
community and Sceptics, but also among the highly competitive
entities (philisophical and/or commercial) on either side of
this issue.

For those companies that have invested large sums to promote
their name this is an economic issue.  It that would require
that they secure any top-level domain name that relates to their
product name, even if they don't have a web site of their own.

The Fund for UFO Research is going to discuss securing
"fufor.net", but we'll have to weigh the cost of paying for the
name against a potential threat.  But this should indeed serve
as a wake-up call and no one should allow their Domain Name
registration to inadvertanly lapse.  Make sure that the records
associated with your Domain Name are current, so that someone
will be notified if it is about to expire.  If your Domain Name
was secured by your Web provider and they handle the paperwork,
make sure the contact information is transfered directly to
someone in your organization if you decide to change Providers.

Steve








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   Mar > Mar 26

                   Britain's 1950s Flying Saucer Revealed

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 20:44:37 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 07:01:58 -0500
Subject: Britain's 1950s Flying Saucer Revealed


Greetings list -

Source: The London Sunday Times

http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/03/26/stinwenws02024.html

Sunday, March 26, 2000

Revealed - Britain's 1950s flying saucer
Jonathan Leake, Science Editor

It is the nearest the RAF got to a UFO. Recently discovered
photographs taken at a secret laboratory in the 1950s reveal for
the first time how close Britain came to developing a
saucer-shaped stealth fighter after the second world war.

The pictures, taken at a research centre in Canada, show a
revolutionary ultra-high-speed jet fighter designed by the
British engineer John Frost. Aviation experts who studied the
pictures last week said the jet incorporated some of the
features on America's stealth fighter plane.

Work on the aircraft in the 1950s was codenamed Project Y. Frost
and his team initially set out to build a disc-shaped machine
with vertical takeoff, but ended with a sleek, arch-shaped
aircraft.

"The pictures are a wonderful find," said David Windle, who has
researched the history of Project Y. "It is technology that
Britain just lost and it is a pity the project was abandoned.
Who knows what would have happened if they had pursued it."

The photographs were taken at a laboratory in Malton, near
Toronto, where Frost was working with Avro-Canada, a subsidiary
of the British firm Avro, to develop a jet fighter for the
Canadian government. He wanted to create an aircraft which could
fly at 2,500mph and take off and land on its tail.

The existence of Project Y has been known about for years, but
no pictures of the aircraft have ever been found. An aviation
researcher accidentally discovered the photographs in a file at
the Public Records Office in Kew.

An elongated saucer shape was used because of the revolutionary
"radial flow" jets designed to power it. The engines were
designed to emit the exhaust gases from several small nozzles,
increasing the thrust of the jet.

Aviation experts said last week that the prototype vehicle would
have been almost invisible to radar because of its slim
cross-section. It would also have been more likely to evade
enemy missiles because of the lower heat output through the
numerous jet outlets.

It is not known why the revolutionary jet never went into
production, but the project was abandoned before the plane had
its first test flight.

Alex Raeburn, then assistant superintendent of manufacturing at
Avro, described the life of secrecy for those on the base. "The
security was very tight," he says. "Armed guards were stationed
on the doors and drawings were taken away as soon as we'd made
the component. In fact, we never knew exactly what it was we
were making."

Verne Morse, one of the team who worked on the secret project,
said he was amazed any pictures had survived because of the
total secrecy surrounding the project. He described how he saw a
subsequent model designed by the team.

"When I saw it [the plane] for the first time I was stunned," he
said. "I'd heard rumours we were working on a flying saucer, but
I dismissed them. Now, here I was looking at it, and I was
speechless."

In 1954, the Canadian government decided to end the development
of the aircraft. The American Air Force took over the project
and later a scaled-down version of the plane became an "air
jeep", which was nicknamed the Avrocar.

Raeburn said he witnessed test pilot Spud Potocki flying the
saucer-shaped craft. "I remember him flying up to the hangar
windows and looking in like a humming bird might do. When he
flew in cold weather the engines sucked pieces of ice off the
puddles. They'd float around in the air, shining in the
sunlight."

Professor Michael Graham, professor of aerodynamics at Imperial
College, said: "In the 1950s there was a lot of interest in
different aircraft shapes. This is built like a kind of flying
wing. Its ability to hover is useful for landing in rough
places."

While Frost worked on Project Y, American engineers were
developing their own ultra-high-speed jets at desert bases in
California and Nevada, which led to the development of spy
planes such as the U2.

In 1961, however, despite the successful flights of the Avrocar,
the American air force halted all funding for the company's
researchers. There were no more British-designed flying saucers
and Frost left Avro and moved to New Zealand, where he died.

Last week Tony, his son, said: "Dad was a brilliant artist who
was always designing things, but he combined that skill with
being a very capable mathematician and great lateral thinker."

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com











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   Mar > Mar 26

                 'The UFO Experience' Domain Name At Auction

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 09:44:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:18:31 -0500
Subject: 'The UFO Experience' Domain Name At Auction


Since we've been discussing domain names and their registration,
I have been informed that John White is in the process of
closing down 'The UFO Experience' web site and the Domain Name
is now at auction on ebay.  Search for Item #289196625 and
you'll find it.  (I might suggest that you also do a search on
Domain Names and see the numerous entries. One or two have
opening bids requests in the six figure range, but few actual
bids.)

What follows is the announcement by John:


'The UFO Experience' is a world-famous phrase coined by the late
Dr. J. Allen Hynek in his 1972 book of that title.

You may not know that I represent Dr. Hynek's literary estate. I
named my annual conference 'The UFO Experience' out of respect
for Dr. Hynek's pioneering work.

However, after 12 years of producing the conference, my family
and I have decided to end the conference and shut down the Omega
Communications website which supported it. (The conference
videotapes are now for sale through UFOCity at:

www.ufocity.com

Are you interested in buying my website domain name and address?
It is registered with InterNIC, the organization in charge of
Internet names and addresses. I'm going to auction it on e-Bay
the first week of May. If you're not interested, do you know
anyone who might be? Would you kindly spread the word around in
your circles?


Here are the terms I'll set for an auction:

The winning bidder/buyer will own all rights to the domain name,
with no strings attached.

The buyer will pay all InterNIC transfer fees to have the domain
name transferred to a name of the winning bidder's choice. The
minimum bid will be $500 and payment must be received within 10
days of auction close.

The transfer of domain name ownership will not begin until the
payment has cleared.

The buyer must pay by bank cashier's check, bank wire transfer,
U.S. Postal System money order, or through escrow service (with
all escrow fees paid by the buyer). No personal checks will be
accepted.

The buyer must warrant that he or she is at least 18 years of
age and legally able to consummate a final sale.

The buyer must contact me immediately upon end of auction to
arrange payment and to give information for transfer of the
domain name.


To join the auction:

1. Log on to e-Bay at:

    http://www.ebay.com

2. At the top of the home page, under "What Are You Looking
    For?", key "Domain Names" in the box and click on "Find
    it!"

3. The next screen will have all Domain Name auctions. (There
    will probably be dozens of them.) Look for 'The UFO
    Experience'.'

I'll be grateful for your help in spreading the word.

John White
60 Pound Ridge Road
Cheshire,
CT 06410
USA








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   Mar > Mar 26

               Re: 'The UFO Experience' Domain Name At Auction

From: Stephen MILES Lewis <elfis@austin.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:51:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:06:13 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The UFO Experience' Domain Name At Auction


 >Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 09:44:49 -0500
 >From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Subject: 'The UFO Experience' Domain Name At Auction
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Since we've been discussing domain names and their registration,
 >I have been informed that John White is in the process of
 >closing down 'The UFO Experience' web site and the Domain Name
 >is now at auction on ebay.  Search for Item #289196625 and
 >you'll find it.  (I might suggest that you also do a search on
 >Domain Names and see the numerous entries. One or two have
 >opening bids requests in the six figure range, but few actual
 >bids.)

I view this with interest... however, none of the info offered
here will get you to the domain name up for auction - at least
in my own attempts.

The item number above is for a paperback copy of the Hynek book
and not the auction of the domain name. If one follows the
instructions of John White to find this item one can't find any
such auction. However, as Mr. White's note states "...first week
of May" I suppose it aint even up yet.

I guess that means we should "stay tuned for details."

SMiles








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   Mar > Mar 26

               Re: 'The UFO Experience' Domain Name At Auction

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:07:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 18:45:14 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The UFO Experience' Domain Name At Auction


 >Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:51:49 -0500
 >From: Stephen MILES Lewis <elfis@austin.rr.com>
 >Subject: Re: 'The UFO Experience' Domain Name At Auction
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 09:44:49 -0500
 >>From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >>Subject: 'The UFO Experience' Domain Name At Auction
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Since we've been discussing domain names and their registration,
 >>I have been informed that John White is in the process of
 >>closing down 'The UFO Experience' web site and the Domain Name
 >>is now at auction on ebay.  Search for Item #289196625 and
 >>you'll find it.  (I might suggest that you also do a search on
 >>Domain Names and see the numerous entries. One or two have
 >>opening bids requests in the six figure range, but few actual
 >>bids.)

 >I view this with interest... however, none of the info offered
 >here will get you to the domain name up for auction - at least
 >in my own attempts.

 >The item number above is for a paperback copy of the Hynek book
 >and not the auction of the domain name. If one follows the
 >instructions of John White to find this item one can't find any
 >such auction. However, as Mr. White's note states "...first week
 >of May" I suppose it aint even up yet.

You may be right. I was forwarding this on for a friend, and
don't know the details.

I can try and forward the query back to John White and I'll let
the list know what I find out.

Steve








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   Mar > Mar 26

                             Re: FUFOR Web Site

From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:10:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 18:51:02 -0500
Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site


 >Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:53:28 +0000
 >From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:12:19 -0600
 >>From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net>
 >>Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


<snip>

 >There's one example I know of and it paradoxically relates to
 >CSICOP.

 >On 6 September, 1995 they duly registered 'CSICOP.org',
however,
 >presumably didn't appreciate the necessity to at least also
 >cover the equivalent '.com' domain.

 >Consequently, on 24 January, 1999, 'CSICOP.com' and 'CSICOP.net'
 >were acquired by 'Riley G', supposed 'psychic' and 'remote
 >viewer', etc.

 >If you enter either of these CSICOP URLs, they will
 >automatically take you to his main web site, the similarly named
 >'www.psicop.com'. Realising the dangers, he has astutely also
 >registered 'PSICOP.net' and 'PSICOP.org'.

 >I think we can safely assume it's a deliberate ploy.

 >It also appears this conversely exemplifies an unquestionable
 >'skeptics' web site - the most prodigious one - being 'hijacked'
 >by 'UFO' interests, as I see Mr G states on his site:

<snip>


 >As requested, any examples of 'supportive' UFO web sites being
 >usurped by 'skeptics' would be of interest.


Hi James,

Sorry for the lack of response till now, but I was out of town
on interview for a PhD program and am just now returning. Other
than the car crash that seriously messed up my car and my
already bad knee on the way home, things went well.

For a quick answer to your query: the first site that comes to
mind having been bought up by a skeptic group was
brotherblue.org. A lot of folks, both pro and con, don't care
much for bro blu, but after his site went offline for a while,
it suddenly became a redirect page that lead to the CSICOP main
page (looks like they both give and take). A quick check with
internic (if memory serves- this was probably over a year ago
now) listed some unkown person as the new owner, but
unfortunately I cannot recall if CSICOP as an organization was
listed or not. I think the site was in the process of being
reworked, or simply taken down, when someone apparently bought
it up. I haven't checked up on it all lately.

I'm sure there are other examples, and I know I have bumped into
a few of them in the past, but no others specifically come to
mind.

It does not surprise me though that it works both ways, and that
'believers' have done the same thing. Unfortunately it's
probably just human nature in general, not specific to UFOs.
Hell, I know of many times I've accidentally typed a URL wrong
and gotten redirected to a multilevel marketing site or a porn
ad. Just the way it goes. It's more disturbing to me though
when it's done to censor the views of others or to trick folks
into getting certain types of info thrown at them.

Best,
Tim









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   Mar > Mar 27

                             Re: FUFOR Web Site

From: SMiles Lewis <elfis@austin.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:24:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:00:10 -0500
Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site


 >Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:10:24 -0600
 >From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net>
 >Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:53:28 +0000
 >>From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:12:19 -0600
 >>>From: Tim D. Brigham <TBrigham@ksinc.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: FUFOR Web Site
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

     Hi Tim, list and all...

 ><snip>

 >For a quick answer to your query: the first site that comes to
 >mind having been bought up by a skeptic group was
 >brotherblue.org. A lot of folks, both pro and con, don't care
 >much for bro blu, but after his site went offline for a while,
 >it suddenly became a redirect page that lead to the CSICOP main
 >page (looks like they both give and take). A quick check with
 >internic (if memory serves- this was probably over a year ago
 >now) listed some unkown person as the new owner, but
 >unfortunately I cannot recall if CSICOP as an organization was
 >listed or not. I think the site was in the process of being
 >reworked, or simply taken down, when someone apparently bought
 >it up. I haven't checked up on it all lately.

As Tim knows, we discussed this incident some time ago (he and I
and friends). "Brother Blue" may have accidently let his domain
registration lapse due to personal situations at the time.
Whatever... it seemingly cost him his digital namesake, first to
CSICOP, then seemingly (if you check right now) the following:

http://www.saic.com/
(for their domain info see very bottom
of this long post)

-=-=-=-=-=-

http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois?STRING=brotherblue

The "real" Blue Brethren?
Brother Blue (BROTHERBLUE2-DOM)
BROTHERBLUE.COM

RIBORDY, SCOTT (BROTHERBLUE4-DOM)
BROTHERBLUE.NET

RIBORDY, SCOTT (BROTHERBLUE3-DOM)
BROTHERBLUE.ORG

-=-=-=-=-=-

http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois?STRING=brotherblue.org

Domain Name: BROTHERBLUE.ORG

Administrative Contact:
RIBORDY, SCOTT  (SR13969)
no.valid.email@WORLDNIC.COM
RIBORDY, SCOTT
10260 Campus Point Drive
SAN DIEGO, CA 92121

858 826 6000 (FAX) 123 123 1234
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
WorldNIC Name Host  (HOST-ORG)
namehost@WORLDNIC.COM
Network Solutions, Inc.
505 Huntmar Park Drive
Herndon, VA 20170

1-888-642-9675

Billing Contact:
RIBORDY, SCOTT  (SR13969)
no.valid.email@WORLDNIC.COM
RIBORDY, SCOTT
10260 Campus Point Drive
SAN DIEGO, CA 92121

858 826 6000 (FAX) 123 123 1234

Record last updated on 10-Mar-2000.
Record created on 12-Sep-1999.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS19.WORLDNIC.COM     216.168.225.149
NS20.WORLDNIC.COM     216.168.225.150

-=-=-=-=-=-

Registrant:
Brother Blue (BROTHERBLUE2-DOM)
P.O. Box 381315
Cambridge, MA 02238-1315
US

Domain Name: BROTHERBLUE.COM

Administrative Contact,
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
ITZKAN, SETH J  (SJI3)
SITZKAN@PLANET-TECH.COM
PLANET-TECH ASSOCIATES
49 Main St.
Ayer, MA 01432

978-772-4343
Billing Contact:
ITZKAN, SETH J  (SJI3)
SITZKAN@PLANET-TECH.COM
PLANET-TECH ASSOCIATES
49 Main St.
Ayer, MA 01432

978-772-4343

Record last updated on 30-Aug-1999.
Record created on 30-Aug-1999.

Domain servers in listed order:

DNS.BRIDGEDNS.COM  140.239.30.4
DNS2.BRIDGEDNS.COM  140.239.30.5

-=-=-=-=-=-

Registrant:
RIBORDY, SCOTT (BROTHERBLUE3-DOM)
Domain Name: BROTHERBLUE.ORG

Record last updated on 10-Mar-2000.
Record created on 12-Sep-1999.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS19.WORLDNIC.COM     216.168.225.149
NS20.WORLDNIC.COM     216.168.225.150

-=-=-=-=-=-

Registrant:
RIBORDY, SCOTT (BROTHERBLUE4-DOM)
Domain Name: BROTHERBLUE.NET

Record last updated on 10-Mar-2000.
Record created on 12-Sep-1999.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS13.WORLDNIC.COM     216.168.225.143
NS14.WORLDNIC.COM     216.168.225.144

-=-=-=-=-=-

http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois?STRING=saic.com

Registrant:
SAIC (SAIC-DOM)
10260 Campus Point Drive
San Diego, CA 92121

Domain Name: SAIC.COM

Administrative Contact,
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Science Applications International
(SAIC-NIC)
NIC@NET.SAIC.COM
Mail Stop G1
10260 Campus Point Drive
San Diego, CA 92121
US

(858) 826-2511
Billing Contact:
Science Applications International
(SAIC-NIC)
NIC@NET.SAIC.COM
Mail Stop G1
10260 Campus Point Drive
San Diego, CA 92121
US

(858) 826-2511

Record last updated on 04-Sep-1999.
Record created on 09-Feb-1989.

Domain servers in listed order:

PORTAL.WEST.SAIC.COM     198.151.12.15
PORTAL.EAST.SAIC.COM    198.151.13.15









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   Mar > Mar 27

               Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:22:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:22:36 -0500
Subject: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown




Source: http://www.alienzoo.com/features/o/200003240001.html


Success of 'Mission To Mars' the talk of Tinseltown

Was Brian de Palma in hiding because NASA was out to get him?
No one seems to know.

by Paul Davids - 03/24/2000


What a difference a week makes in Hollywood! A major film lives
or dies based the weekend box office numbers. From one week to
the next, depending upon those Friday-to-Sunday grosses, the
world changes overnight, as a film�s fortunes rise and fall.

Case in point: Consider the slugfest at the box office last
weekend between 'Mission To Mars' and ''Erin Brockovich''. The
Julia Roberts film opened to about $28 million gross this past
weekend, while director Brian De Palma�s Mars journey, beginning
its second week, sunk over 50 percent. 'Mission To Mars' was
down from $23 million the opening weekend to just over $10
million last weekend, its second weekend in theaters.

Despite its strong first weekend showing, 'Mission To Mars' is now
in the dog house, due to the beating it took from critics.
However, on Tuesday night, March 14, 'Erin Brockovich' hadn�t
officially opened and 'Mission To Mars' was still the box office
champ. And on that night, I swooped down from the sky in my
hovercraft to attend the premiere of 'Erin Brockovich' in
Westwood, Los Angeles, at the Mann�s Village Theater. It was a
�hard-ticketed� event, which meant that the theater assigned
seats, similar to how it is for a play.

'Brockovich' had one the biggest Hollywood premieres of the year
2000. The film was an unqualified success. Without exception,
everyone in the audience relished Julia Roberts�s performance.
Steve Soderbergh�s directing of a near-perfect screenplay was
pure tour de force.

I sat alongside Steve Stabler, who produced around 80 films, and
not one of them takes place in outer space or has any aliens in
it. I guess this means that science-fiction wouldn�t qualify as
his favorite genre. But he did produce a few of Jim Carrey�s
most popular movies when he was at Motion Picture Corporation of
America, including Dumb and Dumber, which is America�s favorite
moron flick of all time. About a year or so ago, Steve Stabler
founded Destination Films, which has made about nine pictures in
its first year.

After the film premiere (which the _real_ 'Erin Brockovich'
attended), Steve and I marched down the red carpet that
connected the Mann�s Village Theater to the gigantic tented
party down the street. The honchos of Universal, including
President Ron Meyer, smiled ear to ear after the successful
premiere, sensing a potential hit.

But there was another movie being discussed by those present:
'Mission To Mars'. The movie wasn�t the topic of discussion
because people _liked_ it. Rather, the film stunned people
because it had barreled its way to the number one position at
the box office despite horrible reviews. The Mars film had
become the one to beat; it was lodged there in first position.

Yes, I will admit that the screenplay of 'Mission To Mars' was not
great. It had its moments of klunkiness and corniness. But the
story did strive to open our minds. You could certainly pick
away at trivial points of the plot. But considering the garbage
that passes for movies these days, you could argue it was a bit
of a masterpiece - especially in set design, special effects and
overall visual concept.

The weird thing about the anti-'Mission To Mars' hysteria that is
sweeping Hollywood is that none of the Mars-haters even try to
explain what they didn�t like about the film. They don�t
consider it worthy of an itemized list of bad points, as though
it�s beneath that level. My theory, of course, is that people
are freaked out by the premise. They�d never thought about it
before. Could life on Earth - and mankind in particular - have
been seeded by a life-form from another planet?

For some inexplicable reason, most of the folks in Tinseltown
seem to think that this kind of speculative storytelling makes
for bad science and even worse science-fiction. In fact, at a
pre-release press screening, the audience actually HISSED and
BOOED at the ending. Interestingly, TIME magazine credits the
concept to Richard C. Hoagland, author of the book 'The
Monuments Of Mars', which has rocketed up the Amazon.com
bestseller list since the Mars film appeared on the horizon. The
book continues to climb at warp speed. Never mind that Hoagland
was never paid a dime. That�s Hollywood! But Hoagland still has
the _real_ story to tell, better known as the version that will
_really_ make NASA go nuts!

TIME actually wrote that 'Mission To Mars' echoes Hoagland�s book.
The Mars film is predicated on the concept that there is a face
on Mars and that it is real. The story has twisted reality,
changing the appearance of the actual face on Mars to look like
the face of an alien gray: large eyes, slit mouth, etc. When the
astronauts go inside the face at the climax, they see
holographic images that convey the history of our solar system
and the seeding of planet Earth with DNA in ancient times. And
they also see an image of the long-departed Martians, who are
depicted to look more or less like Grays. But these Martian
Grays have emotions. The one we see sheds a tear. It�s a tear
for the destruction of the life that was on Mars, eons ago. Then
again, maybe it�s a tear of joy because humans finally found
their way back to Mars, the planet of humanity�s forefathers.

For kids, and for adults with open minds, the imagery of the
destruction of life on Mars, and the creation of life on Earth
(and its evolution) was some of the best screen imagery seen in
ages. Don�t forget, it�s a Touchstone picture, and Touchstone
means Disney. I refer you to the 'Flying Saucers Over
Hollywood!' of a few weeks ago featuring Michael Eisner, CEO of
Disney. He has been positioning himself as a hero to ufologists
and those who have made the leap to the �New Paradigm.� First
there was Disney�s 'Alien Encounters' TV show, which point-blank
charged that there was a UFO coverup. Stanton Friedman himself
couldn�t have done a better job of stating the case. Then there
was 'Fantasia 2000', in which playful whales levitate to the sky
in beams of blue light from the heavens. How�s _that_ for an
abduction fantasy? And now there is 'Mission To Mars', in which,
contrary to everything NASA has ever said about the subject, a
face on Mars is presented as a real, constructed artifact from
ancient times.

So Disney has proven to be something of a thorn in the side for
NASA. As you can discover at Richard Hoagland�s website
(www.enterprisemission.com), one of the trailers for 'Mission To
Mars' actually _accused_ the space agency of covering up the
truth behind the movie. They waited until the last possible
moment to say it, and as a strategy, it may have boosted box
office revenue. We saw the _old_ trailer for months before the
film opened, so, giving us something new at the last minute was
good promotion for ye ol� opening weekend box office grosses.

There was another topic of conversation at the premiere party:
the director of 'Mission To Mars', Brian De Palma. People wondered
where in the world he was (and if he was still on Earth, for
that matter). It seems that Brian has disappeared. No press
interviews. He was gone in 60 seconds. Abducted? In hiding? Why
does a director who has the number-one movie at the box office
go into hiding? Doesn�t commercial success insulate a filmmaker
from the nasty hisses and cruel critiques of the rabid makers of
public opinion? There may have been another dimension (no pun
intended) to Brian�s disappearance.

You see, it seems that when they were making the Mars film,
there was no mention whatsoever of a face on Mars. It wasn�t in
the script. The screenplay, without the Mars face, was brought
to NASA with requests for advice and help. Lunar Astronaut Story
Musgrave even agreed to play a bit part (a very bit part). Scads
of NASA advisors climbed aboard the project as consultants. Yet,
according to my inside source for the last few months (a special
effects designer who used to work at Hoyt Yaetman�s special
effects company, Dreamquest), the script was suddenly changed.
The face was added. Well, not THE face. As I said, filmmakers
changed it into a large-eyed 'Gray' face -- without NASA having
a clue about what was happening. The story was changed from a
conventional space rescue mission to homage for the Face on Mars
and the concept of aliens having seeded life on Earth in very
ancient times.

Was Brian de Palma in hiding because NASA was out to lynch him?
No one seems to know.

And what is NASA saying about the movie? Absolutely nothing. The
silence of _no_comment_ is as loud as it can possibly get. NASA
has been trying to erase the Face on Mars from public
consciousness for decades, and no doubt they considered this
film an ambush. A rather successful and sneaky ambush, at that.
If we were a fly on the wall at the Jet Propulsion Lab in
Pasadena (JPL), we�d probably hear a bunch of grown engineers
arguing about whether Brian de Palma should be roasted on a spit
or merely boiled in oil.

For ufology, it�s always great to have a number one picture out
there that tells part of our side of the story. In echoing
Richard Hoagland�s book with its face on Mars premise, 'Mission
To Mars' definitely puts part of the 'new paradigm' into the
public consciousness in a new way. It�s always risky to imply
that aliens may have had a hand in our Creation, that maybe God
needed aliens to accomplish what the Bible always told us God
did in a single day - the last day of Creation before He rested
(Hey, anybody who�s getting that much bang for the buck deserves
a day of rest!). But part of the problem is that Pat Robertson
and Jerry Falwell don�t like this kind of science-fiction movie.
So you get huge opening weekend grosses, and then the Word
whispers out to quash the excitement. And for those who didn�t
reject the movie on religious grounds, they had other grounds
for dumping on Brian de Palma. It ranked 99 out of 100 in
'hokiness', as defined by the Establishment. That�s the same
Establishment that doesn�t believe in UFOs.

After all the damage done by the devastating reviews, TIME tried
to resurrect the Mars film a bit. They conceded that 'Mission To
Mars' was not the devastatingly bad movie the critics portrayed
it to be. They gave it credit for its ingenuity and some
captivating touches, such as a jitterbug sequence in space that
was, like, totally charming.

The question is, now that the dust has settled, where will the
movie leave ufology? And where does it leave other producers who
have an interest in this subject matter? What are the chances
that we�ll ever get the _real_ story of the _real_ Face on Mars
onto the screen. We�ll have to wait and see. I�ll be among those
biting their nails. Hoagland and I have worked almost five years
together trying to bring a loosely fictionalized version of the
Face on Mars to the screen, from the inception of its discovery
in 1976 (when it showed up in two of the Viking spacecraft
photos), to the recent disappearances of various _real_ Mars
spacecraft.

When I left the premiere of 'Erin Brockovich' that night, the
question was uppermost in my mind as to who would be champ at
the box office on 'Erin Brockovich'�s opening weekend: Erin or
Mars? Would Mars defy the critics again? Would it give Julia
Roberts a Martian sized migraine? The question has been
answered. Julia Roberts left Brian De Palma coughing and
sputtering in a cloud of Martian dust.

BRIAN, WHERE ARE YOU? EARTH TO BRIAN DE PALMA, DO YOU READ US?
We still love you! Some of us, anyway. At least, those of us who
don�t want to slime you! EARTH TO BRIAN DE PALMA, come in, this
is 'Flying Saucers Over Hollywood!'

Well, no answer, folks. So that�s it for this week. Another Mars
mission has lost touch with ground control. Oh well. Log on
again next Friday, because I�m going to take my tuxedo out of
the mothballs, so I can bring you AlienZoo�s own
up-close-and-personal look at the Academy Awards! Until then,
this is Paul Davids, bringing you the ufological 'Truth' from
Hollywood Boulevard - _and_ the planet Mars! Over and out!

� 2000 AlienZoo, Inc.







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   Mar > Mar 27

                            M2M/De Palma/Hoagland

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:24:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:24:32 -0500
Subject: M2M/De Palma/Hoagland




From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

For subscribers interested in the M2M/De Palma/Hoagland saga,
Bill Fentum's site at:

http://www.angelfire.com/de/palma/

will doubtlessly yield nuggets.

ebk







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             NASA 'Smoking Gun' Footage - Rebuttal To Debunkers

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:32:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:32:50 -0500
Subject: NASA 'Smoking Gun' Footage - Rebuttal To Debunkers




 From UFO UpDates - Toronto

Source: UFO City

http://www.ufocity.com/breaking.cfm?NewsID=111

NASA 'Smoking Gun' Footage - Rebuttal To Debunkers


 From Mike Farrell
23 March 2000

Greetings Researchers,

Below is a reply from Russel Callaghan & Graham Birdsall of UFO
Magazine (UK) to an inquiry by our Australian Astronomer and UFO
Researcher, Clare Williams. She raises some interesting issues
and you'll find the response below eye-brow raising! First is my
request for a response from Callaghan & Birdsall, then their
response to objections raised by Clare Williams, as
appropriately marked.

I think you'll agree that this new NASA 'smoking gun' footage
recorded by Martyn Stubbs and distributed by UFO Magazine (UK)
is worth discussing and investigating on this and every other
UFO List on the Web. Please feel free to forward this message on
to your favorite UFO list. It contains new and inside
information on the debate between debunker's, skeptics, and
believers on the validity and implications of this new NASA UFO
video evidence.

Don't be put off by the 'emotional reactions' of all concerned.
This matter should "heat" things up in the UFO Research
Community and in the public domain. Where there's smoke, there's
fire! Stand back from the flames if you must, but resist turning
away from considering important new UFO information and
evidence.

And I think it's important to remember that the real value of
this new "smoking gun" footage will be in it's ability to
attract more interest from the mainstream scientific community
than from UFO researchers and "believers", who have probably
already seen and know better.

Secondly, the short amount of new UFO footage released is
reported to be just the tip of the iceberg, and that many more
hours of better and different footage will be released as this
case unfolds. After all, the scientists who discoverd the
"martian rock" waited 10 years before revealing their find to
the world, and still there is much debate on their discovery.
Can we expect this new NASA UFO video evidence to be revealed
and accepted overnight? Scientists and the media are "gun shy"
no doubt, after all the "hoopla" over the "Alien Autopsy Fiasco"
back in 1995.

We live in a much more cynical world now, so the approach to new
and startling UFO evidence must be slow and cautious, so as not
to raise the alarm and give reason for everyone to "raise
shields" and deny everything to protect our fragile and fast
changing "consensus reality".

So, find out what's really there first, before you pass
judgement. And for heaven's sake, get the video and see the
unedited full length UFO footage for yourself! The selected
short film clips posted on the UFO Magazine website does not do
the video footage justice. Though, you are encouraged to visit
their website to read the whole story behind this new video and
hear the interviews of those involved. www.ufomag.co.uk

Also, as noted below from Callaghan & Birdsall...

"This response may be posted freely. Further, as of 23 March
2000, a 'block' appears to have prevented anyone in the United
States from visiting our website. We have received over 900
emails overnight from web surfers in America who have written to
say they cannot access the material."

Have any of you researchers in America had this
problem? Check it out!

And no, I don't work for UFO Magazine (UK), I'm just excited
about their discovery! Isn't anybody else?







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   Mar > Mar 27

                   Letter To The Editor, The Toronto Star

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:41:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:41:04 -0500
Subject: Letter To The Editor, The Toronto Star





 From UFO UpDates - Toronto

Letter To The Editor,
The Toronto Star

'FINALLY, THE UNHAPPY TRUTH: ET HAS NO HOME TO PHONE'

Evidence that the media are becoming increasingly willing to
provide a platform for the arguments about life elsewhere in
space continues to grow.

In her feature article, in Saturday's Toronto Star, Lynda Hurst
showcases a new book titled 'Rare Earth' by astronomer Don
Brownlee and paleontologist Peter Ward, a specialist in mass
extinctions.

Hurst says that according to Brownlee and Ward, "'simple,
microbial life is likely abundant in the universe, but complex
life - thinking beings like us - is rare, if not unique.'"

"Brownlee and Ward conclude that Earth has exceptional, perhaps
unique, qualities that allowed life to develop from simpler to
higher forms: chief among them, a long period of stability."

The book is, according to Lynda Hurst, "being hailed by many
astronomers as a turning point, a convincing and much-needed
counterbalance to the almost giddy assumptions of recent years.
Others, though, are flatly dismissing it as 'Earth-centric', a
premature rejection of the possibility, even likelihood, of
other worlds in other places."

Lynda Hurst continues, "in the early '60s astronomers Frank
Drake, in his equation, and the late Carl Sagan calculated that
just in our own galaxy, the Milky Way, there could be a million
technologically advanced planets. (Never mind Andromeda next
door, or any of the 100 billion-plus other galaxies in the
universe.)"

"Extraordinary claims, as Carl Sagan once said, require
extraordinary evidence, and Brownlee and Ward's 'Rare Earth'
hypothesis, just like the Drake equation, is only extrapolating
from mathematical models. There is no proof, on either side."

"Nobel Prize physicist Enrico Fermi famously put it back in 1947:
'If they existed, they'd be here.' And, despite claims to the
contrary by UFO devotees, they are not, says Steven Dick,
astronomer and historian at the U.S. Naval Observatory in
Washington, D.C."

The expression "UFO devotees" used by Lynda Hurst in her article
appears to be an editorial comment on her part - which she's
perfectly entitled to, but seems to have been used as
pejorative. She didn't refer either to the authors of 'Rare
Earth' or various other academics and researchers as 'science
devotees' or 'science buffs'. The simple term 'UFO researchers'
would have served better.

Otherwise, Hurst's sizeable article is well-balanced and
welcomed, using many quotes from recognisable names on both
sides of the extraterrestrial/life-else-where conundrum.

The book 'Rare Earth' is, after all, only another hypothesis.

As Carl Sagan said, shortly before his death:

"One lesson is that we're simply too ignorant to make confident
assertions about where there is and where there isn't life. We
have to be a little more humble and a little more open. The
experimental method is the only way of deciding."

And unfortunately, that experimental method has not yet been
even tentatively applied to UFO phenomena by 'Science devotees'.


Errol Bruce-Knapp
Host/Producer
'Strange Days... Indeed'
CFRB 1010

---







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   Mar > Mar 27

                 Completion Of Recent MUFON CT Investigation

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@TEMPORALDOORWAY.COM>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:46:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:54:50 -0500
Subject: Completion Of Recent MUFON CT Investigation


MUFON Connecticut has recently completed the investigation of a
multiple witness daylight UFO case that occurred on 12/13/99.

Careful consideration of witness testimony and on-site
measurements makes it possible to derive a variety of upper and
lower bound quantitative results. The conclusions indicate that
a pair of objects (a "bullet" shape and a sphere) were between
10 and 150 feet in length, between 0.1 and 1 mi distant, and
were traveling at a speed between 30 and 300 mph.

A highly detailed discussion of the case, including:

* Interviews
* Maps
* Computer Models
* Distance, Size and Speed Tables
* Consideration of Specific Mundane Explanations

can be found at

         http://www.temporaldoorway.com/mufonct/report/991213/

------
Mark Cashman
State Director
Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) of Connecticut
mcashman@temporaldoorway.com
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/mufonct/index.htm
------







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   Mar > Mar 27

                              Sarah McClendon?

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 23:50:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:32:01 -0500
Subject: Sarah McClendon?


A recent post referring to the White House press caused me to
wonder where White House correspondent Sarah McClendon may have
journeyed on her quest for UFO truth. She passionately believed
the government was hiding the truth. Has she ever said anything
more in the months following her initial announcement last year?

What did she intend to do as far as gathering and publishing
real evidence of the truth she has discovered? Has anyone stayed
in contact with her on this subject? Or, does the government
look at her as a lovable, wacky old bat, and totally stonewall
her?

Josh Goldstein

NIDS on the landing scene = "The Men in White" are here.
(movie coming next year)









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             NASA's Response To Oberg's Mars Polar Lander Story

From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:50:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:36:03 -0500
Subject: NASA's Response To Oberg's Mars Polar Lander Story



 >Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:10:22 -0500 (EST)
 >From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
 >Subject: NASA's Responds To Oberg's Mars Polar Lander Story
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >NASA'S RESPONSE TO UPI'S MARCH 21 MARS POLAR LANDER STORY

Why is NASA subscribed to a UFO list...?

<insert funky conspiratorial music here>

ron
(who does his best to egg everyone on.)

[Uh, wouldja believe the list is subscribed to NASA? --ebk]









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   Mar > Mar 28

                      TMP News: Weekly Briefing 3.27.00

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:00:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:29:10 -0500
Subject: TMP News: Weekly Briefing 3.27.00



TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

March 27, 2000

_____________________________


WEEKLY BRIEFING
3.27.00


ASTRONOMERS DISCOVER FREE-FLOATING PLANETS IN THE ORION
NEBULA
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/freefloat.html

COLD, DARK ICE-WATERS OF VOSTOK AND EUROPA MAY HARBOUR
LIFE, SCIENTISTS SAY
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/vostok.html

NASA KNEW MARS POLAR LANDER WAS DOOMED
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/doomed.html

HAVE WE MISSED SIGNS OF LIFE ON MARS?
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/missed.html

UB GEOLOGIST'S STUDY OF VOLCANOES ON EARTH MAY HELP
DETERMINE IF THERE EVER WAS LIFE ON MARS
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/volcanoes.html

WAS MARS SHAPED BY GLACIERS?
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/marsglaciers.html

DUST DEVILS AND LANDSLIDES ARE REARRANGING MARTIAN
SCENERY
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/dustdevils.html

THE SPLIT PERSONALITY OF MARS
http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/031400sci-nasa-mars.html

ASTRONOMERS DISCOVER NEW CLASS OF MYSTERIOUS
CELESTIAL GAMMA-RAY SOURCES
http://spacescience.com/headlines/y2000/ast23mar_1m.htm

SATURN'S RINGS MAY BE YOUNGER THAN THOUGHT
http://science-frontiers.com/sf039/sf039p07.htm

NASA RELEASES FIRST 'FLYOVER MOVIE' OF AN ASTEROID
http://CNN.com/2000/TECH/space/03/24/near.update/index.html

BACTERIA IN THE TATAHOUINE METEORITE?
http://www.elsevier.nl/gej-ng/10/18/23/76/26/25/abstract.html

OUTER SPACE GAS TRAPPED ON EARTH IN 'BUCKYBALLS'
http://CNN.com/2000/TECH/space/03/22/buckyballs/index.html

IRIDIUM SATELLITES TO BURN IN DEBACLE
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000315/tc/tech_iridium_3.html

BRITISH COMPANY SAYS IT HAS CLONED PIGS
http://CNN.com/2000/HEALTH/03/14/health.pigs.reut/index.html

US AND BRITAIN TO MAKE HUMAN GENOME PROJECT RESULTS
PUBLIC
http://CNN.com/2000/HEALTH/03/14/human.genome/index.html

GENETICISTS HELP TRACE ORGANISMS' IMPACT ON PLANET
http://dallasnews.com/science/46031_GENESROCKS.html

P3N PRESS RELEASE: DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE SEARCH A
SHAM DECLARES UFO GROUP
http://www.caus.org/pn032000b.htm

A NEW DAY FOR UFO RESEARCH?
http://www.space.com/spaceimagined/area51/nids_investigation_000315.html

SHADOWCRAFT: UFOs, SPY PLANES OR SOMETHING ELSE?
http://www.space.com/spaceimagined/area51/shadowcraft_mystery_000317.html

FIRST CROP CIRCLES OF 2000 REPORTED IN SPAIN
http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada/spain00.html

_____________________________


See also the TMP web site for complete listings of news stories,
reports and related information and links:

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing weekly briefings of the latest relevant news
stories and reports, as well as information and updates on
TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul Anderson
and published by TMP, and is available free by subscription; to
be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request,
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For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Mar > Mar 28

               Re: Completion Of Recent MUFON CT Investigation

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 01:25:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:32:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Completion Of Recent MUFON CT Investigation


 >Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:46:48 -0500
 >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@TEMPORALDOORWAY.COM>
 >Subject: Completion Of Recent MUFON CT Investigation
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >MUFON Connecticut has recently completed the investigation of a
 >multiple witness daylight UFO case that occurred on 12/13/99.

<snip>

Nice work!






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Mar > Mar 28

                          Filer's Files #12 -- 2000

From: Majorstar@aol.com
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:05:48 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:36:22 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000


Filer's Files #12 -- 2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,      Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
March 28, 2000,     Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. - Chuck Warren Webmaster.

NEW WITNESS FOR ROSWELL CRASH

The story continues to persist that an alien vehicle crashed
near Roswell, New Mexico in 1947.  Several teams of researchers
are racing the clock to reach witnesses before they pass away.
The Air Force claims that a Mogul Balloon train with radar
reflectors was responsible for the many legends surrounding the
crash.  Some claim that people from Roswell even made up the
story to save a dying town and to keep tourism alive.  Most of
the key witnesses lived around Roswell and had financial
reasons for keeping the story going.  The new witness is from
Texas so these accusations do not include him.

NEW ROSWELL WITNESS CLAIMS ALIEN CRAFT CRASHED

Investigator Tom Carey writes:  "Don Schmitt and I have just
returned from an eight-day research trip to New Mexico and
Texas.  On this trip, we spent an entire day on the Plains of
San Agustin looking again at the Barney Barnett story of an
alleged UFO crash there in 1947.  We believe that we have
broken new ground on this case and may have solved it.  More
about this at a future time. We traveled to El Paso, Texas to
interview a new first-hand eyewitness at the 1947 UFO crash
site outside of Roswell.  Now 83 years-old, Tex (synonym) was a
civilian working for the military at the time and describes the
crash scene thusly:

Tex said that as they approached the crash site, he started
noticing pieces of silvery-like metal on the ground.  It was
light and very hard.  On one of the pieces [not an I-beam
structure as described by Jess Marcel, Jr.] he noticed strange
symbols, like "hieroglyphics", on it.  He and the two NCOs in
his vehicle picked up some of the pieces, but the debris was
taken away from them by the military before they departed the
scene.  The witness stated, "The craft resembled something that
reminded me of something I saw on the old Buck Rogers serials.
It was tear-drop-shaped with stubby curved-back wings, which
gave it a scalloped-shape in back.  It was small, about
twenty-feet long by about 12-14 feet wide.  It had a dark
canopy in front which was open.


In the canopy were two 'beings'.  One was slumped over but
still alive, and the other was standing up in the canopy
looking at us as we approached.  There was a third one, dead,
which was curled up on its side at the base of the small hill
that the craft had hit.  It had apparently been thrown from the
ship.  I did not get a real close look at them, as I was about
15 feet from them.  One of the NCOs in my group had gone ahead
of the rest of us and shouted back to us, 'They're aliens', and
we knew he wasn't talking about Mexicans.  They were small with
grayish/greenish skin.  Large heads, small noses and ears but
with a small lobe of flesh near the ears.  Had about 1-2 inch
slit for a mouth?  The eyes were dark- not black-and slanted
but not like those big black eyes that you see on book covers
and in pictures.  I couldn't tell their uniforms -- if they had
uniforms -- from their skin.  I also cannot recall their hands
or feet as the one curled up was too far away and being halfway
inside the ship obscured the other two.  I heard later from
another NCO involved in the recovery that there were two more
'beings' found dead further inside the ship.  We left shortly
after the recovery began.  I noticed that the two 'beings' that
were still alive were also placed in body-bags as was the one
dead one that I could see.  After returning to base, we were
told not to talk about what we had seen and made to sign a
nondisclosure form of some sort.  By my calculation, the
nondisclosure agreement ran out a few years ago.  That's why I
am talking now."  This witness was found in good health living
comfortably in El Paso.  He was an electrical engineer at the
time of the Roswell Incident.  George, you have my permission
to use this for your "Filer's Files".  Thanks to: Tom Carey
TCarey1947

Editor's Note:  This new witness is very significant.  He
verifies much of the what other Roswell witnesses have reported
and that the debris had strange writing on it.

GENERAL RAMEY'S MESSAGE REGARDING ROSWELL CRASH

There are several independent teams now researching photographs
taken by James Bond Johnson in General Ramey's office in 1947.
Of particular interest is a message  held in General Ramey's
hand as he posed in front of debris.  These photographs are
important because their authenticity has never been questioned
by the government.  The government maintains the debris is a
RAWIN radar reflector similar to a box kite.  The Roswell
Photographic Interpretation Team (RPIT) team believes that the
material is thicker than kite like panels.  Niel Morris and
other researchers claim to see evidence of "Hieroglyphic like
writing" on the debris.  Blow ups of the photographs are being
analyzed and attempts to read the message are meeting with some
success.  Due to the lighting and the way the message is bent
not all the words can be read.  Although there is some
controversy between interpretations of particular words the
overall meaning implies that a wreck with victims was found.

Dr. Donald Burlson's interpretation of the message reads our
take on the Ramey memo is in CAPS. We believe that we will be
proven correct in time.  RECO ... OPERATION AT     THE    JULY
4TH. THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK YOU FORWARDED TO THE   . AT FORT
WORTH TEXAS .. COMPRESSOR ON THE "DISK" MUST THUS SAVE FOR
ATOMIC LABORATORY.URGENT. POWERS ARE NEEDED SITE TWO NW ROSWELL,
N.MEX.    ...SAFE TALK WANTED FOR MEANING OF STORY AND MISSION
[OR OBJECTIVE].NEXT CREW OUT TODAY. WEATHER BALLOONS WOULD MAKE
[NOTE THE SUBJUNCTIVE CONTEXT IN WHICH THE WORDS "WEATHER
BALLOONS" ARE USED].          "R RAMEY"    Thanks to Tom Carey
and Giuliano Marinkovicc -of  Croatia,  9a4ag@clarc.org,

BRITISH 1950's FLYING SAUCER REVEALED

UK Sunday Times printed the following story March 26, 2000, by
Jonathan Leake, Science Editor, Saucerful of Secrets: The
disc-shaped Avro plane was intended to fly at 2,500mph.  It is
the nearest the RAF got to a UFO.  Recently discovered
photographs taken at a secret laboratory in the 1950s reveal
for the first time how close Britain came to developing a
saucer-shaped stealth fighter after the second world war.  The
pictures, taken at a research center in Canada, show a
revolutionary ultra-high-speed jet fighter designed by the
British engineer John Frost.  Aviation experts who studied the
pictures last week said the jet incorporated some of the
features on America's stealth fighter plane.  Work on the
aircraft in the 1950s was codenamed Project Y.        Frost and
his team initially set out to build a disc-shaped machine with
vertical takeoff, but ended with a sleek, arch-shaped aircraft.
"The pictures are a wonderful find," said David Windle, who has
researched the history of Project Y. "It is technology that
Britain just lost and it is a pity the project was abandoned.
Who knows what would have happened if they had pursued it."
The photographs were taken at a laboratory in Malton, near
Toronto, where Frost was Alex Raeburn, then assistant
superintendent of manufacturing at Avro, described the life of
secrecy for those on the base.  "The security was very tight,"
he says. "Armed guards were stationed on the doors and drawings
were taken away as soon as we'd made the component.  In fact,
we never knew exactly what it was we were making."   Verne
Morse, one of the team who worked on the secret project, said
he was amazed any pictures had survived because of the total
secrecy surrounding the project.  He described how he saw a
subsequent model designed by the team.

"When I saw it [the plane] for the first time I was stunned,"
he said. "I'd heard rumors we were working on a flying saucer,
but I dismissed them.  Now, here I was looking at it, and I was
speechless."  In 1954, the Canadian government decided to end
the development of the aircraft. The American air force took
over the project and later a scaled-down version of the plane
became an "air jeep", which was nicknamed the Avrocar.  The
photos can be seen at:

http://ads.newsint.co.uk/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/
www.sunday-times.co.uk/nwe/759/Top/RMCOM001i/newbullet.gif/
63646263643130383338646531643430

Editor's Note:  Much of the same information was revealed in
these Files in 1998, #37 and #40 dated 9/17/98 and 10/8/98.
The original Silverbug release was accomplished by Jack Pickett
and myself.  The photos show a heal shaped craft that was
apparently the fore runner of the Silverbug.  The heal shaped
craft looks similar to those over flying Arizona in 1947 and
similar to the craft that crashed near Roswell in 1947.  They
also are similar to Nazi designs recovered at the end of World
War II.  What we all hope to find out is were these new designs
based on alien technology, Nazi designs or the brilliance of
British engineer John Frost?

WRIGHT PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE

After the reported recovery of the craft near Roswell the
wreckage was believed to have been sent to Wright Patterson Air
Force Base (WPAFB) in Dayton, Ohio.  Leonard Stringfield and
now Robert M. Collins are the chief researchers who  have
attempted to discover where on base  was the craft held?  The
folklore rumors state that it was Hangar 18.  But, through the
many years of intensive effort the only evidence  found to
support such stories was a series of buildings called 18 A, B,
C, etc., but no Hangar 18.  From all this investigation it
appears that Hangars 4 A, B, C may have been our famous Hangar
18 and even today there are classified projects still being
conducted in these hangars.

According to Stan Friedman and others a highly secret panel
code-named Majestic 12 or MJ-12 was formed by President Truman.
In August 1999, Tim Cooper was sent a draft copy circa 1961 of
the Mj12 Directive.  It is undergoing authentication by Bob and
Ryan Wood.  These Mj12 directives may be authentic and urgent
authentication is needed.  Tim Cooper's research has uncovered
a key figure in the story.  He writes; James Jesus Angleton was
born on 9 December, 1917, in Boise, Idaho, to NCR businessman
and OSS Colonel James Hugh Angleton.  Upon Graduation from Yale
in 1941,  Angleton moved to Harvard Law School where he met his
future wife Cicely d'Autremont.  Inducted into the Army on  19
March, 1943, Angleton was recruited into the OSS in August
through  the efforts of Angleton's father and Norman Pearson,
his old Yale English  professor who was, at that time, head of
the OSS Counter Intelligence division in London.  Angleton may
have been part of Majestic. See the following URLs to learn
more:     Thanks to Robert Collins:

http://home.sprintmail.com/~rigoletto/tim_cooper_documents.html

further reports and updates

http://home.sprintmail.com/~rigoletto/Sanctuary_Of_The_Birds.htm

http://home.sprintmail.com/~rigoletto/reports/tim_james_angleton.htm

NEW YORKER'S SEE FOUR UFOs

BUFFALO -- Researcher Kenny Young writes that
LittleGoop@aol.com wrote: "We have just seen a series of four
UFOs.  At first we thought they were air planes but they were
making no noise and flying too high to be airplanes.  They had
flashing lights going in a circular motion.  One was a shadow
of a disk shape with a lid on top.  Something very small came
out of it.  If you can help identify these objects please email
us at littlegoop@aol.com or lizz597902@aol.com. Thanks to Kenny
Young LittleGoop@aol.com -- UFO Research

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/

NEW YORK SMALL DELTA-SHAPED UFO SEEN

ROCHESTER -- On March 15, 2000, around 6:30 p.m., M.J.C.
decided to go for a hike in the woods near his apartment
complex.  He lives about a half-mile from Expressway 590  "That
evening I started hiking through the woods on a trail which
starts at the back of my apartment complex and skirts north
along the edge of the Brighton landfill. "Glancing up ahead,
some movement caught my eye.  Something dark up in the air.
First I thought it might be a kite, then a balloon, then a
bird.  Finally, as it drew closer, the only possibility that I
hadn't eliminated was a radio-controlled model of some sort.
But then again, what kind of radio-controlled plane is
absolutely silent?"       "The object was totally black in
color and flat on the underside.  The closest thing that I
could say the craft resembled was the Stealth fighter plane,
but it was quite scaled down in size.  Although it's difficult
to estimate size against a background of clouds, the object was
eventually close enough to me where I'm confident in saying it
wasn't more than six feet (1.8 meters) long, and my best guess
is that it was only four feet (1.3 meters) long."

"The object looked very much like a black arrowhead in shape,
complete with an arrowhead's notch toward the rear.  But it
also presented a multifaceted design on top, similar to the
Stealth's antiradar deflective design.  However, the ends of
the object appeared to have a clean edge but I noticed they
were partially ragged, as in the difference between a standard
pyramid and the stepped look of a South American pyramid.
Although the effect was mere detail, I thought it was worth
mentioning."  "As the object glided directly past me, I could
begin to see what clearly looked to be windows arrayed in a
hexagon-shaped dome on top.  Now picture a Stealth cockpit
positioned directly in the middle of the craft with these same
types of windows being on all sides."  "The object was
traveling at a constant speed and altitude, absolutely level.
The degree of steadiness it showed combined with the fact that
it was moving over a long distance without making a sound made
it seem utterly unnatural to me.  It also flew at a very low
altitude, perhaps a mere 30 to 50 feet above the highest
treetops at 10 miles per hour  throughout the entire sighting
which lasted maybe 45 seconds."  Editor's Comment:  This is not
an aircraft as we understand the term.  At such a low airspeed,
any plane would stall and drop out of the sky.  The UFO
obviously was using some other means of "lift" than its wings.)
Thanks to UFO Roundup Joe Trainor editor.

VIRGINIA FIREBALL

POWHATAN -- I operate a small business west of Richmond.
Thursday night, March 9, 2000, at approximately 7:00 PM.  I was
on the front porch with my husband. It was dark. We were
listening to music and I was just looking out towards our horse
field when I saw a glowing green object swoop down onto the
pasture and proceed to move horizontally but in a circular
fashion to the north going up the field.  It irradiated a green
color and lasted about 5 to 8 seconds and just disappeared.  It
seemed about almost as high as our 2-story house so it was
fairly low to the ground.  I ruled out a child's toy or
anything else and for lack of a better word, call it a UFO. I
have no idea what it was.

GEORGIA UFO PHOTO IN LIFE MAGAZINE

John Thompson writes, "I bought a copy of Life magazine today
(allegedly the last issue to be published)." It's front cover
is devoted to UFOs. If you get it, turn to page 49 and look at
photo number 8. This is almost exactly what my family and I saw
for 45 minutes on 20 Feb 1994. The only difference is that
there was huge non-blinking white light in the middle and at
its bottom. We also saw it at just above tree top level from
our high hill, giving it an almost level vantage viewing point.
Hence, we saw a straight edge of Christmas tree like lights.
This is the first time I have seen this photo (taken, according
to Life magazine by a deputy sheriff in Western Connecticut,
along with a  hundred other witnesses who saw it, in May of
1988. Incredible photo!)  The photo, a "circle of lights," is a
most common UFO in the Troup-Heard  Corridor and a truly
unexplainable UFO.

ARKANSAS UFO SEEN FROM AIRLINER

NORTHEAST TIP - Peter Davenport writes that he was contacted by
a Flight Attendant for a major airline who had a sighting.  On
March 12, 2000, I was flying from Memphis, TN to St. Louis, MO.
at approx. 9:10 PM.  While serving a first class passenger on
the left side of the aircraft I noticed out the window that a
ball of light was approaching from the rear of the aircraft at
a speed faster than what we were going.  (I would guess about
700 mph). The object appeared as a fuzzy ball of light pinkish
in color which went out when it came parallel to our aircraft.
It then began producing reflective sparks over the top of the
ball shaped object of what appeared to be of a metallic nature.
It then veered toward the aircraft and went under us and
disappeared.  When I notified the flight crew, they said that
they had no reports of anything in the area and refused to talk
about it any further.  I asked the passenger what she thought
it was and she replied that she could not make out anything
that would make sense or anything she had ever seen before.  I
have never seen anything while flying in my 12 years with the
airlines. This was worth investigating.  Thanks to the National
UFO Reporting Center www.nuforc.com.

MISSOURI BALLOT INITIATIVE

History continues to be made in the Show-Me State, where the
Missouri secretary of state recently certified the
signature-petition language for the first-ever ballot
initiative to combat official government secrecy on UFO
reality.  "With receipt of this action," explained
petition-drive committee co-chairs Bruce Widaman, "we can start
gathering the requisite number of 75,000 signatures for placing
the measure on the ballot during the general election this
fall."  After several months of navigating the complex
review-and-approval process, Widaman and some of his
Missouri-based colleagues in the Mutual UFO Network, Inc. now
are gearing up to start circulating the signature petition.
"To have any chance at all of meeting the state's deadline of
May 7th, we have to round up at least 500 signature-gathering
volunteers", he said.  "And maybe some benefactor will step
forward to fund a corps of professional circulators.  But even
if we fail to muster that degree of support, we already have
achieved a moral victory in coming this far -- and there's
always the prospect of renewal for the next general election."
That moral victory can serve as a model for the other 15
direct-initiative states (as well as the seven
indirect-initiative ones).  And Widaman hopes that volunteers
from those states will come forward early to follow the
Missouri lead.  In doing so, they will have added their voices
to the growing call for full accountability as to what the
government really knows about the origin and nature of
unidentified flying objects.  Widaman noted that a
UFO-ballot-initiative dedicated banking account has been
established at MUFON headquarters in Texas
(http://www.mufon.com) to help support the project.  "As in all
public-interest endeavors, we need some funding from the
citizenry to offset expenditures," he said, adding:  "And now's
the time for volunteers to start the process in Alaska,
Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana,
Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah,
Washington, and Wyoming.  Numerous UFO researchers worldwide
view this initiative as a formal means for gaining (and
expressing) the sense of the electorate on a vital public
issue:

"If indeed the Earth is being visited by alien spacecraft, then
we have a right to know and the government has the duty to
tell," Widaman concluded.  He defined the direct-initiative
process as a grassroots means for empowering the voters to
legislate statutory change -- in this case as an official
proclamation to urge congressional action toward ending the
government cover-up of the UFO experience.  Here's the full
text of the proposed proclamation:   "Be it enacted by the
people of the state of Missouri that the year 2000 be
proclaimed and observed as the Year of UFO Awareness.  Because
of the Federal Government's failure to be officially
forthcoming about Unidentified Flying Objects, the public
remains ill informed and confused on a matter of potentially
great consequence.  We therefore urge the U.S. Congress to
expeditiously convene open, comprehensive hearings in which
government personnel (military, civilian-contract, and agency
employees -- active and retired) are permitted to present sworn
testimony regarding their personal knowledge of any UFO-related
evidence, to be given under immunity by waiver of any
applicable security oath or agreement of nondisclosure.  This
proclamation   acknowledges the following facts: (1) the weight
of the cumulative   evidence -- e.g., eyewitness,
electronic-detection, photographic,   documentary --
overwhelmingly supports the conclusion of a majority of
Americans that some of the reported UFOs represent somebody
else's   spacecraft; (2) the Federal Government's handling of
the UFO issue has   contributed to the public cynicism toward,
and general mistrust of,   government -- a development
injurious to our republic; (3) this initial   year of the third
millennium affords us a renewed opportunity to   explore,
assess, and convey every facet of UFO reality." : Thanks to
Bwidaman@freewwweb.com  and Bob Bletchman (860-675-6379)

HOUSTON NASA UFO EXHIBIT

Aaron Crossley writes I was very disappointed to find out that
there is not an IMAX Film showing at Space Center Houston.
They did however have several cars from the Roswell Parade
(Including shock comedian Tom Green's 'Space Mobile'), An
original newsclipping of the Roswell Newspaper that fateful
day, some older photographs of UFOs (And not any good ones),
and some rubber aliens (Including the one Tom Green sexually
molested on national television).  It was more of a kid's
thing, and I was disappointed.  It does however point children
in the right direction.  Children probably don't watch Tom
Green, so children will be left with their imaginations soaring
to extraterrestrial highest.. Thanks to: raverkid@earthlink.net
(Aaron Crossley)


COLORADO UFO CHASES WITNESS

Christopher O'Brien reports eight unusual aerial sightings have
been forwarded to this investigator.  On St. Patrick's Day,
March 17, at 3:00 p.m. Alamosa County resident "Chuck" was
driving southbound on Hwy 285, just north of Antonito, when he
witnessed "a metallic sphere at about 30 degrees up.  It did
not move in any extraordinary ways but it sure didn't look like
any airplane I've seen."  Montrose, CO investigator Davina
Ryszka is investigating a report that occurred a few months ago
in the same area."

On Tuesday, March 7th, 2000, 9:30 PM, near the town of Olathe,
CO, a mother driving on a back road had an encounter with a
low-flying aerial craft.  The craft/object exhibited a "very
bright white light and had a red and green lights on its
sides".  The woman reported to Ryszka that whatever-it-was
"seemed to be confrontational".  As the object approached her
car head on, at first the witness thought it was a low-flying
airplane.  "The witness slammed on the brakes to try to avoid
what seemed would be an inevitable crash" and the craft stopped
right in front of her car.  When she tried to move, it moved.
When she attempted to turn the car around and go back the way
she came, it moved in front of her car.  At this point she was
"really frightened especially because she had a small baby in a
car seat . . ." Finally, she managed to get in front of the
object and it   "ended up behind her and she could see it in
the rear view mirror.  Then for a time it was not visible at
all and she was relieved that maybe it was gone."  Suddenly, a
bright light came on directly above her illuminating her car
and the surrounding area "and she drove quickly on to Olathe,"
understandably shaken by her experience.  CAUS/Skywatch
tmv@amigo.net

http://home.amigo.net/tmv

Author of The Mysterious Valley (1996) and Enter The Valley
(1999 St. Martin's Paperbacks)

PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET of some of the best UFO shots available and
data on their propulsion systems. $10.00 by US Navy Commander
Graham Bethune. Send money order or check to G. Filer 222
Jackson Rd Medford, NJ 08055

US GOVERNMENT UFO PROOF RELEASED: Audio tapes of a genuine UFO
Alert at Edwards Air Force base and studied by the Foreign
Technology Division at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, are now
available for distribution to the public.  Sam Sherman's audio
documentary tape called EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER on the
night of October 7, 1965, uses the actual voice recordings
provided by the Air Force.  During this event 12 high tech
luminous UFOs invade secure air space and came down low over
the runways at Edwards AFB.  Tower operator Sgt. Chuck Sorrels
spotted them and notified the Air Defense Command.  Sgt.
Sorrels is heard on the original tapes and in a new segment
where he verifies the event as it is heard on the archival
recordings.  The UFOs are described and a decision is made to
launch F-106 fighter interceptors.  You are there for an
important part of UFO history.  Hear it for yourself, it's the
best UFO tape ever made.  Tape cost is $14.95 each plus $2.00
for shipping -- total $16.95 -- (for overseas orders-out of US
- add $6.00 shipping cost -- total -- $20.95) you can send
either a personal check or money order to: Independent
International Pictures Corp, Box 565, Dept. GF, Old Bridge, New
Jersey 08857.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe by contacting Mufon@aol.com. Mention I
recommended you for membership.  Filer's Files is Copyrighted
2000 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
items from the Files on their Web Sites provided that they
credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue that the item appeared.  Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com.  Sending mail automatically grants
permission for us to publish. Please state if you wish to keep
your name or story confidential.










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   Mar > Mar 28

                            Re: Sarah McClendon?

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 06:00:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:38:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?


 >Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 23:50:01 +0100
 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >Subject: Sarah McClendon?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >A recent post referring to the White House press caused me to
 >wonder where White House correspondent Sarah McClendon may have
 >journeyed on her quest for UFO truth. She passionately believed
 >the government was hiding the truth. Has she ever said anything
 >more in the months following her initial announcement last year?

 >What did she intend to do as far as gathering and publishing
 >real evidence of the truth she has discovered? Has anyone stayed
 >in contact with her on this subject? Or, does the government
 >look at her as a lovable, wacky old bat, and totally stonewall
 >her?


Josh-

Sarah McClendon has become a fixture in the Washington media for
many years, and she is well respected by her colleagues.  I
believe that Sarah, like Jack Anderson, has become convinced
that there is a cover up of information by the Government
related to UFOs, but hasn't been able to prove it for
publication.

I believe her most recent statement followed contact with
Richard Hoagland, who (with her help) scheduled a press
conference at the National Press Club to show what he believes
are "artifacts" on the moon that were filmed by NASA.  That
press briefing was IMO a disorganized jumble of information that
couldn't have proven much of anything to anybody, and the press
treated it accordingly.

She is still published, but I believe that her staff handles
much of the research and legwork at this point.  Unfortunately,
being a Washington institution and well respected for your work
by your colleagues doesn't translate into being a major force in
Washington Journalism.  There are many reporters in Washington
(and I'm sure around the world) who are very passionate in their
beliefs, but their audience is in the end limited to those who
believe as they do.

My 2-Cents

Steve









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             Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown

From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:10:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:46:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto [mailto:updates@sympatico.ca]
 >Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 9:23 AM
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown

 >Source: http://www.alienzoo.com/features/o/200003240001.html

 >Success of 'Mission To Mars' the talk of Tinseltown

 >Was Brian de Palma in hiding because NASA was out to get him?
 >No one seems to know.

 >by Paul Davids - 03/24/2000

 >I sat alongside Steve Stabler, who produced around 80 films, and
 >not one of them takes place in outer space or has any aliens in
 >It. I guess this means that science-fiction wouldn't qualify as
 >his favorite genre. But he did produce a few of Jim Carrey's
 >most popular movies when he was at Motion Picture Corporation of
 >America, including Dumb and Dumber, which is America's favorite
 >moron flick of all time.

Look, I'm an unabashed Jim Carrey fan (& I'll challenge anyone
that thinks that somehow reflects on my intellectual capacity!),
but as far as films go, 'Dumb and Dumber' was high-brow compared
to this piece of garbage known as 'Mission to Mars'.

I would spare those of you who are planning on seeing it for the
same reason I did ('cause you have an interest in space, aliens
& conspiracy)

... but I know you've already seen it, or will see it no matter
what I say. So, just don't say you weren't warned.

Not to mention but, despite the trailers, as has been noted
here, there's '0' conspiracy. That was out & out false
advertising.

 >The weird thing about the anti-'Mission To Mars' hysteria that is
 >sweeping Hollywood is that none of the Mars-haters even try to
 >explain what they didn't like about the film.

Everything.

 >They don't consider it worthy of an itemized list of bad points,
 >as though it's beneath that level.

Itemizing would take too long.

It's just easier to say that the whole thing stunk.

...unless you bring beer & turn it into a drinking game:

- one slug of beer every time Gary Sinise assumes a wistful look

- one slug of beer every time you see a blatant produce
   placement

- one slug of beer every time you find yourself saying "WTF...?"

 >My theory, of course, is that people are freaked out by the
 >premise.

No, no, no ... that's not it at all.

Let's try this again:

The movie stunk!

There.

If you really want to, you can buy me a ticket (& some beer...)
& we could sit & watch the movie together, during which time
I'll be more than happy to point out every moronic scene as it
comes up. I suspect, though, that your carpal tunnel will kick
in long before the movie's over... & I'll be drunk. Weeeeeeeeee!

 >They'd never thought about it before. Could life on Earth - and
 >mankind in particular - have been seeded by a life-form from another
 >planet?

Nice try, but the concept has been done just elsewhere, perhaps
most satisfyingly in a little-known movie called '2001'...

Oh, why am I even being coy? Everyone & their mother knows that
De Palma (a director that I really do like) blatantly stole from
about half a dozen space-themed movies. The allusions to 2001
are more than obvious & _not_ coincidental.

(please don't quibble over whether not 2001 presented "seeding"
versus "aliens guiding evolution", etc. the point is that the
viewing public is well aware of the concept of Little Green Men,
possible life on Mars, etc.)

 >There was another topic of conversation at the premiere party:
 >the director of 'Mission To Mars', Brian De Palma. People wondered
 >where in the world he was (and If he was still on Earth, for
 >that matter). it seems that Brian has disappeared. No press
 >interviews. He was gone in 60 seconds. Abducted? in hiding? Why
 >does a director who has the number-one movie at the box office
 >go into hiding?

...or is it because he himself knows his movie stinks & that the
ticket sales are do to the slick advertising & outright lies?

Run, Brian, run! Take that money & run, ya lucky fool, you!

 >The question is, now that the dust has settled, where will the
 >movie leave ufology?

Worse off... just like Hoagland & his books.

...

Anyway, I'm still waiting for Move-a-Minute to do a review

http://rinkworks.com/movieaminute/

but in the meantime you could check out my friend's review
done in the same style (although, a bit longer than 1-3 lines)

http://www.velvet.net/~fudjo/missiontomars.html










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   Mar > Mar 28

                   CSICOP and Skeptical Inquirer Make News

From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:33:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:52:34 -0500
Subject: CSICOP and Skeptical Inquirer Make News


Nickell still deserves a flogging for his attempted armchair
debunking of the Illinois UFO report when he didn't even have
all the information that was available to him from _his_
armchair!

-----

From: SkeptInq@aol.com [mailto:SkeptInq@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 12:07 PM

CSICOP and Skeptical Inquirer in the News


CSICOP at the March Meeting of the American Physical Society
Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at the Minneapolis Convention Center


Minneapolis Star Tribune, Thursday, March 23, 2000

'Twin Cities Journal: Scientists Consider The Paranormal-Very
  Skeptically

Chuck Haga/Star Tribune


Star Tribune writer Chuck Haga covered CSICOP's Wednesday March
22 session at the Minneapolis Convention Center, with generous
quotes from Paul Kurtz and Joe Nickell's presentations and a
sense of humor that breaks the usual media portrayals of the
dour skeptic.

Haga imagines Mulder and Scully taking seats in the audience and
reacting to quotes from Kurtz' and Nickell's discussions of
alien abductions and communication with the dead:

Nickell shows slides of reported UFOs. But they are really
comets, airplanes, clouds and doctored photographs, he says.

"I've seen UFOs," he says.

Mulder perks up.

"At Niagara Falls, I once saw a large light merge with a smaller
light. But as I got closer, I saw that it was lights on a
turning helicopter."

The online version of Haga's story has audio links to Kurtz'
and Nickell's speeches and a link to an online forum open for
discussion of belief in paranormal.

Check out the story and the links at:

http://www.startribune.com/stOnLine/cgi-bin/article?thisSlug=TCJ23&date=23-M
ar-2000&word=kurtz

or you can go to:

www.startribune.com

and search on Paul Kurtz.









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              Re: NASA's Response To Oberg's Mars Polar Lander

From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:41:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:54:36 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA's Response To Oberg's Mars Polar Lander



 >Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:50:48 -0500
 >From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
 >Subject: Re: NASA's Response To Oberg's Mars Polar Lander Story
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Why is NASA subscribed to a UFO list...?

 >[Uh, wouldja believe the list is subscribed to NASA? --ebk]

I might, Rabbit, I might...

(but it's not as much fun!)









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   Mar > Mar 28

                            Re: Sarah McClendon?

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:31:31 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:39:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?


 >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 06:00:51 -0500
 >From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 23:50:01 +0100
 >>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >>Subject: Sarah McClendon?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Steve and Josh,

 >Sarah McClendon has become a fixture in the Washington media for
 >many years, and she is well respected by her colleagues.  I
 >believe that Sarah, like Jack Anderson, has become convinced
 >that there is a cover up of information by the Government
 >related to UFOs, but hasn't been able to prove it for
 >publication.

My understanding is that McClendon is a very old woman long past
her prime, not all that well thought of, and a reporter for a
single, minor newspaper in Tyler, Texas.  Her championing of the
cause of opposition to UFO secrecy amounts to little if
anything.  And if she thinks Hoagland is a credible source, then
she's positively harmful.

Jerry Clark












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             Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:48:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:42:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown

 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto [mailto:updates@sympatico.ca]
 >Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 9:23 AM
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown

 >Source: http://www.alienzoo.com/features/o/200003240001.html

 >Success of 'Mission To Mars' the talk of Tinseltown

 >Was Brian de Palma in hiding because NASA was out to get him?
 >No one seems to know.

 >by Paul Davids - 03/24/2000

<snip>

 >For ufology, it�s always great to have a number one picture out
 >there that tells part of our side of the story.

Who is this 'our' of whom our gentle author speaks?  Not 90% of
the "ufologists" I know, who consider the writings of Richard
Hoagland to be delusional ravings.

Brian








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   Mar > Mar 29

                            Re: Sarah McClendon?

From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:41:26 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 05:16:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?


 >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:31:31 -0600
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 06:00:51 -0500
 >>From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 23:50:01 +0100
 >>>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >>>Subject: Sarah McClendon?
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Steve and Josh,

 >>Sarah McClendon has become a fixture in the Washington media for
 >>many years, and she is well respected by her colleagues.  I
 >>believe that Sarah, like Jack Anderson, has become convinced
 >>that there is a cover up of information by the Government
 >>related to UFOs, but hasn't been able to prove it for
 >>publication.

 >My understanding is that McClendon is a very old woman long past
 >her prime, not all that well thought of, and a reporter for a
 >single, minor newspaper in Tyler, Texas.  Her championing of the
 >cause of opposition to UFO secrecy amounts to little if
 >anything.  And if she thinks Hoagland is a credible source, then
 >she's positively harmful.

 >Jerry Clark

Jerry,

This is just the kind of arrogant, snide, cheap shotism that
festers among the UFO/ET researchers (particularly the long
timers) and blocks broad based coalitioning and cooperation.

Along with Jenny Randles, no one has written more books on these
subjects than you.  You are well respected in the field.  Why on
earth, therefore, is it so necessary to run down the work of
others?

Stephen Bassett









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   Mar > Mar 29

                        Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000

From: Tom Carey <TCarey1947@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:06:40 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 05:23:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000

 >Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:05:48 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Majorstar@aol.com
 >Subject: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000
 >To: Robkatsamy@netzero.net

 >Filer's Files #12 -- 2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
 >George A. Filer,      Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
 >March 28, 2000,     Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
 >Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. - Chuck Warren Webmaster.

<snip>

"Filer's Files" #12 - 2000 discusses the various investigations
of the Ramey Memo, in part, as follows:

 >GENERAL RAMEY'S MESSAGE REGARDING ROSWELL CRASH

 >snip

 >Dr. Donald Burlson's interpretation of the message
 >reads our take on the Ramey memo is in CAPS.
 >We believe that we will be proven correct in time.
 >RECO . . . OPERATION . . . AT THE
 >JULY 4TH. THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK YOU
 >FORWARDED TO THE
 >. . . AT FORT WORTH TEXAS.
 >SSOR ON THE "DISK" MUST THUS SAVE FOR
 >ATOMIC LABORATORY.
 >URGENT. POWERS ARE NEEDED SITE TWO
 >NW ROSWELL, N.MEX.
 >. . . SAFE TALK WANTED FOR MEANING OF
 >STORY AND MISSION [OR OBJECTIVE].
 >. . . NEXT CREW OUT TODAY.
 >WEATHER BALLOONS WOULD MAKE [NOTE
 >THE SUBJUNCTIVE CONTEXT IN WHICH THE
 >WORDS "WEATHER BALLOONS" ARE USED].
 >. . . 509 HAS LAND SURVEYOR CREWS.

 >[SIGNED] R RAMEY

 >Thanks to Tom Carey and Giuliano Marinkovicc
 >-of Croatia, 9a4ag@clarc.org,


Readers should be made aware that the above 'take' on the Ramey
memo is that of Tom Carey and Don Schmitt - and not that of
Donald Burlson or anyone else.

There is general agreement between Burlson, the RPIT and our
investigation regarding most of what appears to be stated in the
memo, but there still are a few areas on non-agreement.

For example, where we 'see' "Roswell" as the town named in
addition to Fort Worth, Burlson 'sees' it as "Carlsbad" and the
RPIT as "Magdalena".

Also, there is no agreement regarding who signed the memo. We
'see' it as "R Ramey", and others 'see' it as "Temple".

All of us continue to work on the memo as best we can, so there
will no doubt be more to say in the future.

Tom Carey






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               Re: Completion Of Recent MUFON CT Investigation

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@temporaldoorway.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:47:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 05:29:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Completion Of Recent MUFON CT Investigation


 >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 01:25:55 -0500
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: Completion Of Recent MUFON CT Investigation
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto  <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Nice work!

Thanks, Bruce! This was a particularly complex and time
consuming investigation, but the results were very interesting,
and added at least a few more quantitative data points to our
understanding of UFO size and performance.

For those who may not have web access, or who are interested in
the basic aspects of the report, here is a summary:


On 12/13/99 at approximately 3:30 PM four witnesses in a single
location observed two anomalous phenomena. The observations
lasted for a total of up to 40 minutes (the first phase being
about 25 mins long). This document discusses their observations
and various data derived from their observations.

The witnesses were

Two adult men, 49 (Y) and 51 (F), business owners.
The son of the older of the two men (S), 12.
A woman business associate (W), 80+.

The observations are broken into two phases.

Observation of an estimated 5 contrails in sequence descending
toward a ridge in the west. These contrails became visible in
each case after a bright star-like light appeared, stayed about
the width of the light, and once reaching a specific length
retained that length without change. Each contrail displayed a
"puff" about halfway to the hill that acted as the horizon. The
witnesses also thought there was an orangish flash as each light
passed below the treeline. One contrail split into two. The
witnesses believed it was possible that the lights crashed on
the hill, though they heard no sound. The contrails dissolved,
including the puffs.

Observation of two solid objects, grey in color, one
"bullet-shaped" with smoothly faired fins, one spherical with no
seams or protrusions. One witness observed an apparent seam on
the bullet-shaped object, but this was not confirmed by the
other witness. The objects, of large angular size (3 inches at
two feet), passed the witnesses at what was estimated to be a
relatively close distance, and as they moved to the North
North-East, vanished in full view. The location of the second
phase was about thirty feet to the east of the first, at
41.81120 (Lat), -72.92348 (Long)

A third "phase" was the observation of a number of aircraft,
with the appearance of "boxy cargo planes" whose courses
intersected within sight of the witnesses. The witnesses
believed these aircraft were looking for what they had just
observed. The aircraft were later identified as commercial Short
Skyvans.

The two adult men seemed credible and articulate and offered
detailed observations. The differences between their
observations were within the normal range. Both seemed perplexed
by the event and offered no specific explanations. The child
offered a reasonable level of corroboration.

Table Of Contents

Interviews
Site Visits, Maps and Site Photos
Conditions
Witness Drawn Images
Sun Angle Analysis
Possible Course Of The Second Sighting Objects
Possible Mundane Explanations
Object Shape
Analysis and Conclusions

The investigation required about forty hours of effort by two
investigators. Approximate ranges for actual distance, size, and
speed were calculated. The pitch and roll of the bullet object
was determined based on the sketches. Mundane explanations were
ruled out for the second phase, but remain possible for the
first phase.

------
Mark Cashman
State Director
Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) of Connecticut
mcashman@temporaldoorway.com
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/mufonct/index.htm
------









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                            Re: Sarah McClendon?

From: Scott Hale <scott_hale@american.edu>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:59:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 05:35:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?


 >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:31:31 -0600
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >My understanding is that McClendon is a very old woman long past
 >her prime, not all that well thought of, and a reporter for a
 >single, minor newspaper in Tyler, Texas.  Her championing of the
 >cause of opposition to UFO secrecy amounts to little if
 >anything.  And if she thinks Hoagland is a credible source, then
 >she's positively harmful.

I attended a meeting of the McClendon Group at the NPC in
Washington, DC when Stephen Bassett gave a presentation on UFO
secrecy there.

McClendon is indeed very old and didn't seem to have a conscious
understanding of what was being discussed at the meeting. She
seems to hold what I would call a figurehead position as the
leader of that particular press group.

The rest of the group definitely understood what was going on,
but McClendon seemed to be there simply because it was routine.
These are just my impressions from what I saw that night and I
mean Sarah McClendon no disrespect by my observations.

Hope I Helped,
Scott Hale










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             Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:18:32 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 05:41:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown


 >From: Ron Cecchini
 >Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:10:21 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:46:28 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown


Previously, it was noted:

 >>They'd never thought about it before. Could life on Earth -
 >>and mankind in particular - have been seeded by a life-form
 >>from another planet?

Ron pointed out:

 >Nice try, but the concept has been done just elsewhere, perhaps
 >most satisfyingly in a little-known movie called '2001'...

 >Oh, why am I even being coy? Everyone & their mother knows that
 >De Palma (a director that I really do like) blatantly stole from
 >about half a dozen space-themed movies. The allusions to 2001
 >are more than obvious & _not_ coincidental.

 >(please don't quibble over whether not 2001 presented "seeding"
 >versus "aliens guiding evolution", etc. the point is that the
 >viewing public is well aware of the concept of Little Green Men,
 >possible life on Mars, etc.)


Hello all,

Actually, DePalma has made a fine art of "borrowing" from other
films. Virtually all of his movies are inspired by other films;
some more blatant rip-offs than others. Still, his movies are
usually entertaining if nothing.

Regarding the concept of "life-here-starting-out-there"; it was
actually done well before 2001. An old Hammer film from England
called "5 Million Miles to Earth" told the story of a professor
named Quartermass and his lovely red haired assistant in a
_very_ "X-files" sort of way. These precursors to Skully and
Mulder explored the ancient wreckage of a Martian ship that was
dug up in downtown London; complete with mummified carcasses of
"Martian Bugs". It sounds pretty hokey but was actually quite
intelligent and exciting. I highly recommend it as a rental.

Later,

Roger Evans
MovieStuff, Houston TX







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                            Re: Sarah McClendon?

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:50:26 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 06:01:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?


 >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:31:31 -0600
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Hello, all,

 >>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 06:00:51 -0500
 >>From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 23:50:01 +0100
 >>>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >>>Subject: Sarah McClendon?
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Steve and Josh,

 >>Sarah McClendon has become a fixture in the Washington media for
 >>many years, and she is well respected by her colleagues.  I
 >>believe that Sarah, like Jack Anderson, has become convinced
 >>that there is a cover up of information by the Government
 >>related to UFOs, but hasn't been able to prove it for
 >>publication.

 >My understanding is that McClendon is a very old woman long past
 >her prime, not all that well thought of, and a reporter for a
 >single, minor newspaper in Tyler, Texas.  Her championing of the
 >cause of opposition to UFO secrecy amounts to little if
 >anything.  And if she thinks Hoagland is a credible source, then
 >she's positively harmful.

The big thing is the connection with Hoagland. If Sarah had any
little spark of the reporter left, Hoagland, who thinks he has
it all solved, would disappear in the Iron Oxide cloud from
whence he cometh! However, I think she buys the Monuments of
Barsoom er, Mars shitck. I think that E.R. Burroughs has as much
credibilty as Hoagland. We could be seeing a possibilty here,
Richard Gere as Harry Carter and say, (this is for you Gesundt)
Pia Zadora as the Martian Princess.

Now, I Know that some pretty strange things have been seen or
done in or about the environs of Mars. It's just that any one
who is saying "Lo! I, Me, have the answer to: 'Life, the
Universe and Everthing' - immediately suspect - paticularly if
that person appears on a certian radio talkshow from the Bowels
of Nevada.

I confess, I initially bought Hoagland's line, even bought the
tape, too. However, the rantings of Mr. Hoagland turned me off,
not because I didn't buy his Paranioa (as I have quoted: "Just
because your Paranoid, doesn't mean there's no one out to get
you!") about certain Govnerment agencies, but the increasing
stridentcy of his "Consipracy" oriented writing and oratory... I
mean, there may be somthing that the Government does not want
the great unwarshed - er washed, to see, were not gonna see it
on CNN. Sarah McClendon isn't going to make a whit of
difference as long as she keeps company with certain people.

One other thing; Could it be that NASA is simply incompetent?
Spacecraft by commitee is not good.

GT McCoy

"First the facts, then distort them as much as you want."
Mark Twain










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                            Re: Sarah McClendon?

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 00:22:19 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 06:05:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?


 >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 06:00:51 -0500
 >From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 23:50:01 +0100
 >>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >>Subject: Sarah McClendon?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>A recent post referring to the White House press caused me to
 >>wonder where White House correspondent Sarah McClendon may have
 >>journeyed on her quest for UFO truth. She passionately believed
 >>the government was hiding the truth. Has she ever said anything
 >>more in the months following her initial announcement last year?

 >>What did she intend to do as far as gathering and publishing
 >>real evidence of the truth she has discovered? Has anyone stayed
 >>in contact with her on this subject? Or, does the government
 >>look at her as a lovable, wacky old bat, and totally stonewall
 >>her?

 >Josh-

 >Sarah McClendon has become a fixture in the Washington media for
 >many years, and she is well respected by her colleagues.  I
 >believe that Sarah, like Jack Anderson, has become convinced
 >that there is a cover up of information by the Government
 >related to UFOs, but hasn't been able to prove it for
 >publication.

 >I believe her most recent statement followed contact with
 >Richard Hoagland, who (with her help) scheduled a press
 >conference at the National Press Club to show what he believes
 >are "artifacts" on the moon that were filmed by NASA.  That
 >press briefing was IMO a disorganized jumble of information that
 >couldn't have proven much of anything to anybody, and the press
 >treated it accordingly.

The problem with mixing Hoagland into the mixture is that _if_
the press digs around they will find his various statements
about how the Mars Rover was not going to land on July 4th, but
was going to land on July 22nd according to his insider
informants (the landing took place as NASA said it would). Not to
mention last December, when an ET landing was going to take place
on a mountain top in Arizona on December 7th or something like
that, again according to Hoagland's insider informants.

We also had various tales and storys about how Orion, the
pyramids and various other things were all in the right pattern
for these events to take place etc etc.

Point being is the Press would only have to skim the surface of
Hoagland and they would likely dismiss him and his information
based on his past track record of using information from
purported insiders and government informants which never quite
seems to turn out the way he scribes it.

Cheers,

Robert








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              NASA Johnson Space Center Exhibit Features UFOs?

From: Keith Rowell <kerowell@home.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 22:18:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 06:08:07 -0500
Subject: NASA Johnson Space Center Exhibit Features UFOs?


The current UFO Newsclipping Service, March 2000, has the
following story. Does anyone know anything more about this?  I
poked around on the NASA Johnson Space Center web site but
didn't locate any news about this.


**********************************

New Mexican, Santa Fe, NM -- Feb. 16, 2000
UFO exhibit to visit NASA Space Center

ROSWELL -- You can picture the headlines now: UFOs coming to
Space Center.

As, indeed, they are.

The UFO Festival, an event held each summer in this town whose
name is synonymous with space aliens, is sending models and art
to NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston for a two-month
exhibit, said Stacy Wolkwitz, UFO committee chairwoman.

Space Center representatives came to Roswell about a month ago,
along with marketing experts, to look over potential items to be
included in an exhibit on the impact of UFOs on popular culture,
Wolkwitz said.

"They said it's the first time that NASA has ever given
permission for them to display anything on UFOs or aliens," she
said.  "But they feel that it has so saturated pop culture and
that it's so much a part of the movie and TV industry that they
felt it was time they addressed it and showed how we view aliens
as a culture."

The exhibit opens at the Space Center in March and ends in
mid-May.

************************






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                            Re: Sarah McClendon?

From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:53:26 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 06:11:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?

 >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:31:31 -0600
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >My understanding is that McClendon is a very old woman long past
 >her prime, not all that well thought of, and a reporter for a
 >single, minor newspaper in Tyler, Texas.

Sarah McClendon was the Washington Correspondent for the Fort
Worth Star-Telegram when I was a reporter for that rag --
1942-47. She was a mature woman then, more than a half century
ago!

J. Bond Johnson






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             Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:14:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:26:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown


 >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:18:32 -0600
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >Actually, DePalma has made a fine art of "borrowing" from other
 >films. Virtually all of his movies are inspired by other films;
 >some more blatant rip-offs than others. Still, his movies are
 >usually entertaining if nothing.

 >Regarding the concept of "life-here-starting-out-there"; it was
 >actually done well before 2001. An old Hammer film from England
 >called "5 Million Miles to Earth" told the story of a professor
 >named Quartermass and his lovely red haired assistant in a
 >_very_ "X-files" sort of way. These precursors to Skully and
 >Mulder explored the ancient wreckage of a Martian ship that was
 >dug up in downtown London; complete with mummified carcasses of
 >"Martian Bugs". It sounds pretty hokey but was actually quite
 >intelligent and exciting. I highly recommend it as a rental.

I believe the film is actually called "Five Million Years to
Earth", and is a remake of an original British television
production called "Quatermass and the Pit" (the original is an
historical classic, but the special effects are much better in
the later version).

Two other Quatermass television classics were later produced as
full length features, but neither was very notable.

Several years ago I went to some lengths to locate copies of all
the Quatermass productions (around five, if memory serves),
which span two decades. I was unable to locate a copy of the
final British Quatermass program, which aired in the 1970s.

Since Quatermass was a scientist (albeit, somewhat of a rogue),
the comparison to Mulder is a bit of a stretch and I don't think
that he had any predisposed beliefs as to what was going on.
Unlike Mulder, Quatermass had to deal with stupid government
officials, rather than conspiratorial ones.

"Five Million Years to Earth" was always one of my favorite
Sci-Fi movies, and well worth an evening's entertainment.

Steve






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                            Re: Sarah McClendon?

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:05:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:31:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?


 >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:41:26 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Jerry,

 >This is just the kind of arrogant, snide, cheap shotism that
 >festers among the UFO/ET researchers (particularly the long
 >timers) and blocks broad based coalitioning and cooperation.

 >Along with Jenny Randles, no one has written more books on these
 >subjects than you.  You are well respected in the field.  Why on
 >earth, therefore, is it so necessary to run down the work of
 >others?

 >Stephen Bassett

Stephen:

Several months earlier I enjoyed a difference of opinion with
Mr. Clark over his endorsement of Gulf Breeze researchers and
his condemnation of Jerry Black. Clark pretty much accused me of
that which you basically charge him, and he basically held
that personal denunciations of ufologists are not acceptable
method of discourse. [UFO Updates, Oct. 12 '99]

But as Clark justly calls Richard Hoagland into question as a
credible source, you suddenly charge that his comments block
progress toward 'broad based coalitioning and cooperation,'
defining his comments as "arrogant" and "snide".

However, as we see from a posting to UpDates by Robert Gates
[March 29, 2000], Mr. Hoagland's track record, when scrutinized,
doesn't hold. From Robert Gate's post, we see good reason to
step back and take a closer look.

Your failure to recognize this, Stephen, is quite telling. That
you think that we should gloss over these important
'credibility' issues on our way to coalitioning and co-operation
is disheartening.

I was hoping that road to co-operation and coalitioning would
not be built upon shaky ground, Stephen, but like all previous
attempts in ufology, prophets, abductee/contactees and
star-struck celebrities are entertained. The end result is that
true inquiry and scientific methods are compromised; truth is
the victim. This road to coalition may very well be a no-outlet
alley full of total misinformation.

Thanks,

Kenny Young

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/







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                            Re: Sarah McClendon?

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 08:19:28 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:33:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?


 >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:41:26 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:31:31 -0600
 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 06:00:51 -0500
 >>>From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 23:50:01 +0100
 >>>>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >>>>Subject: Sarah McClendon?
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>My understanding is that McClendon is a very old woman long past
 >>her prime, not all that well thought of, and a reporter for a
 >>single, minor newspaper in Tyler, Texas.  Her championing of the
 >>cause of opposition to UFO secrecy amounts to little if
 >>anything.  And if she thinks Hoagland is a credible source, then
 >>she's positively harmful.

 >This is just the kind of arrogant, snide, cheap shotism that
 >festers among the UFO/ET researchers (particularly the long
 >timers) and blocks broad based coalitioning and cooperation.

Actually, Kevin Randle, Brad Steiger, and Timothy Green Beckley
have written far more UFO books than I ever have or ever could.

 >Along with Jenny Randles, no one has written more books on these
 >subjects than you.  You are well respected in the field.  Why on
 >earth, therefore, is it so necessary to run down the work of
 >others?

I stand by what I said.  I only wish I were wrong about it.
Maybe it's those who have elevated Sarah McClendon into
something she isn't -- or isn't any longer -- who have the
explaining to do.

Jerry Clark










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                Mars Program Report Outlines Route To Success

From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:10:22 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:50:15 -0500
Subject: Mars Program Report Outlines Route To Success


Peggy Wilhide
Headquarters, Washington, DC    March 28, 2000
(Phone:  202/358-1898)

RELEASE:  00-46

MARS PROGRAM ASSESSMENT REPORT OUTLINES ROUTE TO SUCCESS

An in-depth review of NASA's Mars exploration program, released
today, found significant flaws in formulation and execution led
to the failures of recent missions, and provides recommendations
for future exploration of Mars.

NASA Administrator Daniel S. Goldin appointed Thomas Young, a
seasoned space-industry executive, to independently assess
current and future Mars programs.  The Mars Program Independent
Assessment Team (MPIAT) started work on January 7, 2000, and
delivered its final report to the Agency in mid- March.

"I congratulate Tom Young and his team for a superb report,"
Goldin said today.  "They have rigorously scrutinized both
successful and unsuccessful missions, shining a searchlight into
every corner of the incredibly complex endeavor of deep space
exploration.  He and his team have delivered an extraordinary
report and I thank them on behalf of NASA and the American
people."

"Speaking for the team, I would like to express my appreciation
for the spirit of cooperation that we enjoyed at NASA
Headquarters, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory and at Lockheed
Martin," Young said.  "The managers, scientists and engineers we
spoke with were candid and frank in their presentations and in
their answers to our questions.  Everyone worked toward the same
goal:  finding ways to make the Mars program successful.

"One of the things we kept in mind during the course of our
review is that in the conduct of space missions, you get only
one strike, not three.  Even if thousands of functions are
carried out flawlessly, just one mistake can be catastrophic to
a mission," Young said.  "Our review confirmed that mistakes can
be prevented by applying experienced oversight, sufficient
testing, and independent analysis."

The team's charter was to review and analyze successes and
failures of recent missions to determine why some succeeded and
some failed; examine the relationship between and among NASA
Headquarters, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), the
California Institute of Technology and industry partners; assess
the involvement of scientists; identify lessons learned from
successes and failures; review the Mars Surveyor Program to
assure lessons learned are utilized; oversee Mars Polar Lander
and Deep Space 2 failure reviews; and evaluate the risk
management process.

The report concluded the most probable cause of the failure was
the generation of spurious signals when the lander legs were
deployed during descent.  The spurious signals gave a false
indication that the spacecraft had landed, resulting in a
premature shutdown of the engines and the destruction of the
lander when it crashed on Mars.

Without any entry, descent and landing telemetry data, there is
no way to know whether the lander reached the terminal descent
propulsion phase.  If it did reach this phase, it is almost
certain that premature engine shutdown occurred, the report
concluded.

NASA's Office of Space Science will develop an integrated
strategic response to the findings and recommendations of the
report.  NASA Chief Engineer W. Brian Keegan also will
coordinate an integrated Agency response to the recent reviews
of NASA program management practices.

In addition, today, Dr. Edward Weiler, the Associate
Administrator for Space Science, announced the cancellation of
the planned Mars 2001 lander awaiting his approval of a new
overall Mars "architecture" plan.  Weiler also will make
management changes in the Mars Exploration Program at NASA
Headquarters and work with the California Institute of
Technology to institute effective change at JPL, clearly
articulating lines of authority, clarifying roles and improving
communication between all organizations involved.  In that
regard, Weiler today appointed Scott Hubbard as the Mars Program
Director at NASA Headquarters.  Hubbard is now Associate
Director for Astrobiology and Space Programs, NASA Ames Research
Center, Moffett Field, CA.

The MPIAT report findings included:

o  Mars exploration is an important national goal that should
continue. o  Deep space exploration is inherently challenging,
but the risks are manageable and acceptable.

o  NASA, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), and U.S. industry
have the unique capabilities required to conduct successful
planetary and deep space missions.

o  NASA's "faster, better, cheaper" approach, properly applied,
should be continued as an effective means of guiding program
implementation.

o  There were significant flaws in the formulation and execution
of the Mars program, but all of the problems uncovered are
correctable in a timely manner to allow a comprehensive Mars
exploration program to continue successfully.

The MPIAT report found common characteristics among both
successful and unsuccessful missions:

o  Experienced project management or mentoring is essential.

o  Project management must be responsible and accountable for
all aspects of mission success.

o  Unique constraints of deep space missions demand adequate
margins.

o  Appropriate application of institutional expertise is
critical for mission success.

o  A thorough test and verification program is essential for
mission success.

o  Effective risk identification and management are critical to
assure successful missions.

o  Institutional management must be accountable for policies and
procedures that assure a high level of success.

o  Institutional management must assure project implementation
consistent with required policies and procedures.

o  Telemetry coverage of critical events is necessary for
analysis and ability to incorporate information in follow-on
projects.

o  If not ready, do not launch.

     - end -

    * * *

NASA press releases and other information are available
automatically by sending an Internet electronic mail message to
domo@hq.nasa.gov. In the body of the message (not the subject
line) users should type the words "subscribe press-release" (no
quotes).  The system will reply with a confirmation via E-mail
of each subscription.  A second automatic message will include
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                        Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000

From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:04:59 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:09:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000


 >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:06:40 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Tom Carey <TCarey1947@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:05:48 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Majorstar@aol.com
 >>Subject: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000
 >>To: Robkatsamy@netzero.net

 >>Filer's Files #12 -- 2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
 >>George A. Filer,      Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
 >>March 28, 2000,     Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
 >>Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. - Chuck Warren Webmaster.

 ><snip>

 >"Filer's Files" #12 - 2000 discusses the various investigations
 >of the Ramey Memo, in part, as follows:

 >>GENERAL RAMEY'S MESSAGE REGARDING ROSWELL CRASH

 >>snip

 >>Dr. Donald Burlson's interpretation of the message
 >>reads our take on the Ramey memo is in CAPS.
 >>We believe that we will be proven correct in time.
 >>RECO . . . OPERATION . . . AT THE
 >>JULY 4TH. THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK YOU
 >>FORWARDED TO THE
 >>. . . AT FORT WORTH TEXAS.
 >>SSOR ON THE "DISK" MUST THUS SAVE FOR
 >>ATOMIC LABORATORY.
 >>URGENT. POWERS ARE NEEDED SITE TWO
 >>NW ROSWELL, N.MEX.
 >>. . . SAFE TALK WANTED FOR MEANING OF
 >>STORY AND MISSION [OR OBJECTIVE].
 >>. . . NEXT CREW OUT TODAY.
 >>WEATHER BALLOONS WOULD MAKE [NOTE
 >>THE SUBJUNCTIVE CONTEXT IN WHICH THE
 >>WORDS "WEATHER BALLOONS" ARE USED].
 >>. . . 509 HAS LAND SURVEYOR CREWS.

 >>[SIGNED] R RAMEY

 >>Thanks to Tom Carey and Giuliano Marinkovicc
 >>-of Croatia, 9a4ag@clarc.org,

 >Readers should be made aware that the above 'take' on the Ramey
 >memo is that of Tom Carey and Don Schmitt - and not that of
 >Donald Burlson or anyone else.

 >There is general agreement between Burlson, the RPIT and our
 >investigation regarding most of what appears to be stated in the
 >memo, but there still are a few areas on non-agreement.

 >For example, where we 'see' "Roswell" as the town named in
 >addition to Fort Worth, Burlson 'sees' it as "Carlsbad" and the
 >RPIT as "Magdalena".

 >Also, there is no agreement regarding who signed the memo. We
 >'see' it as "R Ramey", and others 'see' it as "Temple".

 >All of us continue to work on the memo as best we can, so there
 >will no doubt be more to say in the future.

I am surprised that anyone in the military would have been
holding open a classified memo during a press conference.

It seems more likely to me that the memo would have been notes
on what information to release to the press.

Tim Haley







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                        Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000

From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:22:21 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:22:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000


 >Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:04:59 -0500 (EST)
 >From: TimHaley@aol.com
 >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >I am surprised that anyone in the military would have been
 >holding open a classified memo during a press conference.

 >It seems more likely to me that the memo would have been notes
 >on what information to release to the press.

 >Tim Haley


Tim,

There was _no_ press conference in General Ramey's office! I
know, I was there taking the pictures.

There were _no_ other civilians in the room.

Also, I was at least eight feet away from General Ramey
photographing him as he was examining the Roswell debris which
had just been delivered to his office by Major Marcel.

There would have been no concern in 1947 that my camera could
possibly read the fine print on the Ramey Message from such a
distance.

How could Ramey have possibly imagined that 50 years later a
computer enhancement could make this possible?

James Bond Johnson









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                  Cydonian Imperative Website Taking Shape

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 21:51:03 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:42:10 -0500
Subject: Cydonian Imperative Website Taking Shape


Hi list,

My 'Cydonian Imperative' website, begun in 1998, is back online
with a lot of new images, comparisons and speculative
editorials.

The most recent additions is an analysis of Kynthia Lynn's new
Mars Face sculpture compared to an animated perspective view
created by Mark Carlotto (the similarities are quite
fascinating) and a comparison of the gross morphology of the D&M
Pyramid with that of the so-called Main City Pyramid.

"Mars: The Cydonian Imperative" can be found at:

http://www.geocities.com/macbot/imperative.html

Additional materials are available through my start page:

http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html.

Suggestions and feedback are welcome.

Sincerely,

Mac Tonnies
(macbot@yahoo.com)







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                            Re: Sarah McClendon?

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 02:18:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 15:30:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?


 >>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:59:03 -0500
 >>From: Scott Hale <scott_hale@american.edu>
 >>Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>I attended a meeting of the McClendon Group at the NPC in
 >>Washington, DC when Stephen Bassett gave a presentation on UFO
 >>secrecy there.

 >>Hope I Helped,
 >>Scott Hale

Hi Scott & All,

Is there a website around for the above person?

Regards,

Roy..               Keep Smiling..








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                        Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000

From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 14:35:21 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:26:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000


 >Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:04:59 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:06:40 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Tom Carey <TCarey1947@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:05:48 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Majorstar@aol.com
 >>>Subject: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000
 >>>To: Robkatsamy@netzero.net

 >>>Filer's Files #12 -- 2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
 >>>George A. Filer,      Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
 >>>March 28, 2000,     Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
 >>>Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. - Chuck Warren Webmaster.

 >><snip>

 >>"Filer's Files" #12 - 2000 discusses the various investigations
 >>of the Ramey Memo, in part, as follows:

 >>>GENERAL RAMEY'S MESSAGE REGARDING ROSWELL CRASH

<snip>

 >I am surprised that anyone in the military would have been
 >holding open a classified memo during a press conference.

 >It seems more likely to me that the memo would have been notes
 >on what information to release to the press.


Tim and All,

To further Bond's comments on this and confirm his statement re
the "press conference". We have confirmation from another
reporter on duty that night in Fort Worth that _no_ press call
was made from FWAAF, as the only duty reporter for his paper
that night, it  would have been his position to attend, he tells
us no such call or conference occured.

As to your second comment you may well be partialy correct for
lines 6 and 7 in my "take" of the message seem to say:

(6)       MIDDAY 509# TOLD newspaPeR segment of STORY Adv *****

(7)        LLY THrY EVEN PUT for AF WEATATN BALLOONS raDar WERE


Which if you read between the lines could be construde as
"Adv(ise) (specific)lly th(eo)ry even put for A(ir) F(orce)
weather-station balloons radar were [responsible]".

It seems to make sense.

Neil.


-------------------------------------------------------
                      Neil Morris@Home.

Email:             Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk

Web Sites:        Roswell and Alien Autopsy
                   http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/
                             RPIT
         The Fort Worth Photographs of James Bond Johnson
                http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/
-------------------------------------------------------








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                               Re: UFO Thesis

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:36:50 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:28:22 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Thesis


 >Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:05:32 -0500
 >From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet@chucara.com>
 >Subject: UFO Thesis
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hi All,

 >I've posted a list of Academic Thesis on UFOs (see the address
 >in my signature).

 >I'm looking for someone to help with translation. I'd like to
 >offer this list in as many languages as possible.

There are some handy language translation sites available on the
web, including the following:

FreeTranslation.com  (http://www.freetranslation.com)

and the AltaVista translation service at:

http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?

Perhaps those might be useful.

-Brian C.







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                        Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:44:37 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:36:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000


 >Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:04:59 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Tim Haley <TimHaley@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:06:40 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Tom Carey <TCarey1947@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:05:48 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Majorstar@aol.com
 >>>Subject: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000
 >>>To: Robkatsamy@netzero.net

<snip>

 >I am surprised that anyone in the military would have been
 >holding open a classified memo during a press conference.

I am not. I am sure the General figured that he was safe because
in 1947 the camera/photos along would not have been able to
resolve the lettering.

Also the message or whatever the thing is may not have been
"classified" say Majestic or whatever at that moment yet.  It
may have still been  unclassified because they hadn't traveled
far enough down the road that all documents related to this are
classified, etc etc.

You may recall when President Jimmy Carter (or one of his close
advisors... can't recall which one) had a public photo shot of
them on the White House lawn or some such thing. The President
(or official) was holding a classified document and you could
make out the code word which as I recall was "Royal" or
something like that. After the picture was published the White
House had egg all over itself.

Its called an inadvertant mistake and it does happen.

Cheers,

Robert








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                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 13

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:43:35 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 22:27:07 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 13


     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 5, Number 13
March 30, 2000
Editor: Joseph Trainor

Masinaigan@aol.com

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


UFO TERRORIZES WOMAN
MOTORIST IN COLORADO

      On Tuesday, March 7, 2000, between 9 and 10
p.m., a woman was driving on a back road near
Olathe, Colorado (population 1,300).  Sitting
beside her in the car's front seat was the
woman's baby, who was just under one year old.
      She reported "an encounter with a low-flying
aerial craft," according to ufologist Davina Ryszka
of Montrose, Colorado.
      "The craft/object exhibited 'a very bright white
light and had red and green lights on its sides.'"
      "The woman reported that the UFO 'appeared to be
confrontational.'"
      "As the object approached her car head-on, at
first the witness thought it was a low-flying airplane."
      "The witness slammed on the brakes to try to avoid
what seemed would be an inevitable crash," said Ryszka.
"And the aircraft stopped right in front of her car.  When
she tried to move, it moved.  When she attempted to
turn the car around and go back the way she came,, it
moved in front of her car."
      "At this point she was 'really frightened' especially
because she had a small baby in the car seat.  Finally,
she managed to get in front of the object, and it ended
up behind her, and she could see it in the rear-view
mirror."
      "Then, for a time, it was not visible at all, and she
was relieved that it might be gone."
      "Suddenly, a bright light came on directly above
her, illuminating her car and the surrounding area.
And she drove quickly on to Olathe, understandably
shaken by the whole experience."
      Olathe is on Colorado Highway 550 approximately
57 miles (91 kilometers) southeast of Grand Junction.
      On Friday, March 17, 2000, at 3 p.m., an Alanosa
County rancher named Chuck was driving his pickup
truck on Highway 285 just north of Antonito, Colorado
(population 76) "when he witnessed 'a metallic sphere
at the one o'clock position and about 30 degrees up'
from the horizon."
      "'It did not move in any extraordinary way, but it
sure didn't look like any any airplane I've seen,'
Chuck said."
      Antonito is located about 30 miles (48 kilometers)
south of Alamosa.  (Many thanks to Chris O'Brien,
author of The Mysterious Valley and Enter the Valley
for these reports.)

CYLINDRICAL ORANGE UFO
SIGHTED IN PUERTO RICO

      On Friday, March 24, 2000, at 6:50 p.m.,
Luz Guzman and Orlando Pla were driving on
Monserrate Avenue in Carolina, Puerto Rico,
approximately 8 kilometers (5 miles) east of
San Juan, when they spotted a UFO.
      "A high altitude unidentified flying object was
seen flying across the skies from north to south
over the San Juan and Bayamon metropolitan area.
The object looked like a thin orange line of about
one inch length at a 20 degree angle from the
observers' position."
      "The object crossed the skies in a few minutes
at the same line of horizontal trajectory until it was
out of view."
      "The orange color was very vivid, maybe was a
result of the sunlight shining from below since the
incident occurred during sunset.  The perfect horizontal
trajectory also dismisses the possibility of it being
related to a burning satellite re-entering the atmosphere"
or a meteor glancing off the atmosphere, according to
Puerto Rican ufologist Lucy Guzman.  (Muchas gracias
a Lucy Guzman para esta historia.)

FIVE ORANGE-SPHERE UFOs
RETURN TO PENRITH, N.S.W.

      Penrith, New South Wales, Australia, a city
about 100 kilometers (60 miles) west of Sydney,
became the focus of UFO action again last week.
      On Wednesday, March 22, 2000, at 9:50 p.m.,
Sandra Wilson spotted something strange in the
night sky over Penrith.  Five orange spheres
"appeared in the east" and "flew to the southwest,"
she reported.
      "I saw five orange globes gliding in a southwesterly
direction," she reported, "From the naked eye, they
seemed to be moving slow.  But when viewed through
my telescope, they had the speed of a comet and were
very hard to keep in the lens."
      "Through the telescope, they seemed to be the
colour of reddish-orange, but from the naked eye they
were just orange.  In the centre of the orange glow, the
shape was that of a circle.  I have no idea of the height."
(altitude--J.T.)
      Sandra added, "This is the second sighting of these
five objects during the last two months."  (Email Form
Report)

HOVERING WHITE UFO SEEN
IN THE NETHERLANDS

      On January 16, 2000, at 8:30 p.m., a young man
left his friend's house in Groningen, a city in the
Netherlands approximately 120 kilometers (80 miles)
northest of Amsterdam, and boarded his bicycle
for the trip home.
      On the eastern outskirts of Groningen, the
witness "saw a moving object like a shooting star.
But it held still for a few seconds on the horizon
(near the border with Germany--J.T.), then it
disappeared."
      "Even when it was still, it still had a tail," he said,
adding that the UFO was "nut-shaped."  (Email
Form Report)
(Editor's Note:  Groningen was the site of the
mysterious ice fall in the Netherlands a few
weeks ago.)

USAF CRUISE MISSILE GOES
HAYWIRE AND CRASHES IN
THE UTAH DESERT

      "An Air Force cruise missile flew out of control
Thursday morning (March 23, 2000) and slammed into
the ground near the Goshute Indian Reservation in
remote Tooele County."
      "No one was injured in the 11:16 a.m. crash on
isolated land administered by the Bureau of Land
Management (an agency of the USA's Department of the
Interior--J.T.)  said Hill Air Force Base Tech Sgt. Timothy
Trager.  There was no danger to the land, he said."
      "'The 20-foot (6-meter) long cruise missile had been
dropped from a B-52 bomber that had originally taken off
from Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana.  The missile
was being tracked by two F-15 chase planes and an
Airborne Range Instrumented Aircraft (ARIA) that keeps
the missile in the plane's radar scope, before it inexplicably
crashed,' said Staff Sgt. Sonja Whittington, spokewoman
for the 388th Fighter Wing at Hill Air Force Base."
      "'The pilots never lost the missile visually, but why it
crashed will be determined by investigators,' she said."
      "Whittington did not know the missile's intended
target, but said the accident occurred during the third
hour of a four-hour test run at the Utah Test and Training
Range."
      "When the missile impacted, there was a slight
explosion caused by the crash but no fire.  The missile
did not contain any explosives."
      "No one was near the crash site in remote
Ibapah (population 11) about 185 miles (296 kilometers)
west of Salt lake City," near the Utah-Nevada state line.
      "'I want to emphasize that these tests are routed
specifically to avoid populated areas,' Whittington said,
'We're not going to fly a cruise missile over some
downtown area.'"
      "Thursday's cruise missile test was conducted by
the (U.S. Air Force's) 53rd Wing (located) at Elgin
Air Force Base, Florida, to ensure system reliability
and accuracy."  (See the Salt Lake Tribune of Salt
Lake City, Utah for March 25, 2000, "Stray missile
hits desert-" by Richard Vigia.  Many thanks to Jim
Hickman for forwarding the newspaper article.)
(Editor's Comment:  The cruise missile went down just
south of Ochre Mountain, a sacred site to the
indigenous Nuche people.  This is also the season
the annual Nuche Bear Dance.  Maybe the Four
Thunders put the hex on that missile.)

READER FEEDBACK:
      Concerning the "black arrowhead" or delta-
shaped UFO reported last week in Rochester, N.Y.,
model airplane enthusiast H.B. Buchanan says we
shouldn't rule out the possibility that it was a man-
made model.  He writes, "RC (radio-controlled) aircraft
are extremely light in weight compared to real aircraft,
owing to the lightweight building materials.  Granted, for
a four-foot-long aircraft, 10 MPH (miles per hour) is
pushing the limit of maintaining lift, even for an RC model,
but considering that this was not a measured speed,
the witness could only speculate.  As one who is
involved with model-building and flying, I've seen RC
models retaining lift at very low actual speeds."  (For
more on the Rochester UFO, see UFO Roundup,
volume 5, number 12.)
      Also, reader J. Sabiti reminds us that the African
nation of Zaire has changed its name back to the
Democratic Republic of the Congo once again.
Sorry about that, J.S. UFO Roundup regrets the
error.

from the UFO Files...

1936: PANAMA RED

      Here's another UFO sighting from the pre-Roswell
era.  This one took place in the Central American nation
of Panama back in April of 1936.  Thirty years later,
one of the witnesses reported the case to the old
National Investigating Committee on Aerial Phenomena
(NICAP).
      Back then, the USA administered a strip of land
known as the Panama Canal Zone  (Full control of
the Zone reverted to Panama in December 1999 under
the terms of the Carter-Torrijos Treaty--J.T.)  Many
Army and Navy families made their home in the Zone,
creating a kind of tropical Main Street USA, complete
with garden societies and country clubs.
      In early April of 1936, Mrs. E.P. Higgins, the wife
of an American officer, attended a meeting of the Canal
Zone Astronomical Society at the country club in
Lago (Lake) de Miraflores, about 25 kilometers (15 miles)
north of the city of Balboa.
      Following the meeting, the lecturer, whom we'll call
Prof. Adams, asked Mrs. Higgins if she would like a
ride back to the city.  She agreed, and they set off in
the professor's 1932 Model A Ford.
      Prof. Adams had graduated from Yale University
and had also taught there.  Mrs. Higgins was familiar
with Yale and the city of New Haven, Connecticut,
so they talked about mutual acquaintances.
      "Because the night was so black, and the golden
stars so numerous, we automatically scanned the
heavens with our eyes before saying goodnight,"
Mrs. Higgins told NICAP.
      "Suddenly, the professor shouted, 'Look!  That
one's moving!'"
      "I don't know what I expected when I searched
in the direction his extended arm and finger
indicated.  But then I saw it, and I felt suddenly as
though I'd been bewitched and that I couldn't possibly
be seeing this."
      "But I did see it and continued to do so for some
time, so I had to believe it even though we couldn't
find any explanation whatever."
      "His finger had indicated a spot in the sky...
about 33 degrees from the zenith in a northeasterly
direction...(that is, over Balboa Heights--J.T.)
I observed what appeared to be a red star making a
pathway among the stars.  I can best describe the
look of it by saying that it looked like a red star
of rather small magnitude--and I can also say that
it glowed something the color of a cigarette butt in
the distance."
      "But the course of the thing--that was what
became increasingly unbelievable as the moments
ticked by.  I had a feeling that it was very, very high.
At first it seemed like a star making a pathway among
the stars.  Going in a rather straight line--it was
coming down a trifle and going northward (toward
Colon on the Atlantic side--J.T.)  I think we must have
gasped aloud when it came to a complete standstill
for a few moments.  And then it started turning over in
tiny circles.  This, a plane could not possibly do, nor
could a weather balloon."
      "Anyhow, by this time we were so excited that
we wanted to get a look at it through the (astronomical
society's) telescope.  We rushed out to get the key to
the observatory, but by the time we drove the eight miles
out there, we lost track of it."
      "The next day, the professor checked and found
from the Army that there was no weather balloon or
plane in the vicinity."  (See the book Mysteries of the
Skies: UFOs in Perspective by Gordon I.R. Lore Jr.
and Harold H. Devault Jr., Prentice-Hall, Inc., New
York, N>Y> 1968, pages 112 and 113.)

      That's it for this week.  Join us again in seven
days for more UFO and paranormal news from around
the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that
goes home--UFO Roundup."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2000 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in
newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and
its editor by name and list the date of issue in which
the item first appeared.

      Basic funding for UFO Roundup is provided by the
National Science Foundation, the Corporation for Public
Broadcasting, the Philip Klass Foundation and the
Nelson-Ferris Concert Company...APRIL FOOL!
*********************************************************
IMPORTANT Please Read:
======================

The Hunger Site
---------------
http://www.thehungersite.com

Every 3.6 seconds somebody starves to death. 3/4 of the
deaths are children under 5. By visiting the Hunger Site
and clicking on a button you can donate free food.

There is absolutely no charge to you for the donation -
the food is paid for by sponsors.

Do this once a day (no more) and help make a difference!
If you have a web site download a banner and give a link!
*********************************************************

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm


Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of the UK UFO Network Bulletin,
AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences,
UFO + PSI Magazine also available, plus archives of
Filer's Files.









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                            Re: Sarah McClendon?

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:16:14 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:34:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?


 >Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 08:19:28 -0600
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:41:26 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:31:31 -0600
 >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >>>My understanding is that McClendon is a very old woman long past
 >>>her prime, not all that well thought of, and a reporter for a
 >>>single, minor newspaper in Tyler, Texas.  Her championing of the
 >>>cause of opposition to UFO secrecy amounts to little if
 >>>anything.  And if she thinks Hoagland is a credible source, then
 >>>she's positively harmful.

 >>This is just the kind of arrogant, snide, cheap shotism that
 >>festers among the UFO/ET researchers (particularly the long
 >>timers) and blocks broad based coalitioning and cooperation.

 >Actually, Kevin Randle, Brad Steiger, and Timothy Green Beckley
 >have written far more UFO books than I ever have or ever could.

 >>Along with Jenny Randles, no one has written more books on these
 >>subjects than you.  You are well respected in the field.  Why on
 >>earth, therefore, is it so necessary to run down the work of
 >>others?

 >I stand by what I said.  I only wish I were wrong about it.
 >Maybe it's those who have elevated Sarah McClendon into
 >something she isn't -- or isn't any longer -- who have the
 >explaining to do.


Sorry Jerry, while I appreciate your work, and in spite of the
weight of the encyclopedia's two volumes, which require carpal
tunnel surgery if you attempt reading it in bed, I cannot agree
with your statement.

True or not, Ms. McClendon has something extremely important,
something of great value, which commands us to treat her with
(in my opinion) greater respect.  That something is age, not to
mention her prior success and inspiring contributions to her
trade. She's one brave lady fella!

Such deserves better treatment by virtue of some of those
accomplishments.  Even merely by virtue of her age.  Hell, we
are all gonna get there.  Even Gesundt is gettin on.  But I've
never heard you say or write one nasty word about him.

I tend to believe that Sarah and people like her whould be held
in a higher position of respect than that which she presently
holds in the minds of some.  Just some old lady with nothing
more to give doesn't seem to be terribly appropriate.


J. Jaime








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             Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:34:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:41:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown


 >Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:10:21 -0500
 >From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
 >Subject: Re: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown
 >To: 'UFO UpDates - Toronto' <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto [mailto:updates@sympatico.ca]
 >Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 9:23 AM
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Success Of 'Mission To Mars' Talk Of Tinseltown

 >Source: http://www.alienzoo.com/features/o/200003240001.html

 >I would spare those of you who are planning on seeing it for the
 >same reason I did ('cause you have an interest in space, aliens
 >& conspiracy)

 >.. but I know you've already seen it, or will see it no matter
 >what I say. So, just don't say you weren't warned.

And what about the other percentage of the population that's
never even heard of the 'Face on Mars'?  What do you think it
will do for them?  They may not enjoy it as a good movie, by
they may open their eyes to this controversial subject that's
been looming since Viking took it's portrait.  Is it not an
asset to ufology to make more people 'aware'?

 >Oh, why am I even being coy? Everyone & their mother knows that
 >De Palma (a director that I really do like) blatantly stole from
 >about half a dozen space-themed movies. The allusions to 2001
 >are more than obvious & _not_ coincidental.

What's your point?  No matter who begs, borrows or steals from
who does not make it a non-issue to the importance of the
existence of life elsewhere.  How it penetrates into our
society makes no difference. As long as it keeps coming, for as
long as it takes, to get the point across that we more than
likely have neighbours, somewhere.

 >It's just easier to say that the whole thing stunk.
 >..unless you bring beer & turn it into a drinking game:
 >- one slug of beer every time Gary Sinise assumes a wistful look
 >- one slug of beer every time you see a blatant produce
 > placement
 >- one slug of beer every time you find yourself saying "WTF...?"

And if beer is the only way for you to accept the underlying
messages presented to us, no matter how lame, then if the truth
be known someday, I hope you're loaded.

Sue











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   Mar > Mar 31

                      Re: 10-25-89 'Sudbury Star' Story

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:48:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:44:59 -0500
Subject: Re: 10-25-89 'Sudbury Star' Story


 >Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:40:36 -0500
 >From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
 >Subject: 10-25-89 'Sudbury Star' Story
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Errol & list,

 >I came across this article (below) during my newspaper
 >research.

 >Can anyone tell me if this article refers to a UFO sighting
 >being dismissed by NORAD, or was there really a re-entry of a
 >Soviet satellite around or on October 24, 1989, which could have
 >been seen from Northern Ontario?

 >Thank you.

 >Cordially,

 >Michel M. Deschamps

 >-----

 >The Sudbury Star [Northern Ontario, Canada]

 >Strange Lights Probably A Satellite, NORAD Says

 >STAFF-- Those strange but beautiful lights which graced Northern
 >Ontario skies early Tuesday were a Soviet satellite re-entering
 >the earths atmosphere a NORAD spokesman says.

<snip>


Hello Michel,

Here's the satellite info that you're inquiring about:

1989-078C    20257 CIS      87.3   62.8    149     128   0.0000
SL-6 PLAT                 Launched (1989/09/27) Decayed
[1989/10/24]

SL-6 PLAT    Decayed: 1989/10/24
1 20257U 89078  C 89297.36664060  .91198784 +39978-4 +83717-3 0
00722
2 20257 062.8044 074.2596 0016157 127.4721 233.0472
16.50387128004230

This is the last TLE for this particular satellite. I put this
TLE into my Winorbit program and at 8:30am EDT it would be
located at 62.04N & 57.54W which would put it in the Davis
Strait East of the Baffin Island.

Hope this helps.

Todd Lemire
--
An expert may be defined as someone who can make you feel stupid
for offering your opinion.  Fortunately, as physicist Philip
Morrison once said, ufology "is a field in which there aren't any
experts.








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   Mar > Mar 31

              P3N BULLETIN: Federal Judge Dismisses UFO Lawsuit

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:17:34 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:49:39 -0500
Subject: P3N BULLETIN: Federal Judge Dismisses UFO Lawsuit


Greetings list -

From: UFOLAWYER1@aol.com

PARANORML NEWs NETWORK (P3N) : March 30, 2000

P3N BULLETIN: FEDERAL JUDGE DISMISSES UFO LAWSUIT

A federal judge in Phoenix has granted the government's request
to dismiss a lawsuit brought by a group of UFO activists for
information about a very unusual triangular-shaped aerial
object.

In Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS) v. Department of Defense
(DoD), Chief U.S. District Court Judge Stephen M. McNamee, in an
8-page decision, has ruled that the DoD had conducted a
reasonable search even though it did not find any information.

In his decision, Judge McNamee stated "this case is not one over
the existence or non-existence of UFOs, but whether the
government has conducted a reasonable search regarding
information on specific aerial modes of transportation.

A fruitless search is immaterial if Defendant can establish that
it conducted a search reasonably calculated to uncover all
relevant documents requested for by Plaintiff.

Defendant has met its burden by providing sufficiently detailed
affidavits for the Court to conclude that a reasonable search
was conducted in responding to Plaintiff's FOIA request for
documents.  Plaintiff has failed to demonstrate substantial
doubt regarding the reasonableness of the search.  Therefore,
Defendant's Motion for Summary Judgment is granted."

CAUS attorney, Peter A. Gersten, stated he is considering an
appeal of the Court's decision.

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com









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   Mar > Mar 31

                        Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 23:55:46 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:55:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000


 >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com>
 >Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:22:21 -0500 (EST)
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:22:06 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #12 -- 2000


 >There was _no_ press conference in General Ramey's office! I
 >know, I was there taking the pictures.

Were you there taking pictures for 3 hours? No, you were there
for maybe 20 minutes. You were not a witness to what happened in
Ramey's office either before or after you arrived.

 >There were _no_ other civilians in the room.

Maybe not when you were there. But how would you know what
happened _after_ you left?

Three witnesses (Marcel, Dubose, and Newton) all spoke of
multiple reporters being there at one time.

Somebody took Newton's picture, the two wirephoto services
credited with the photo were civilian, and somebody quickly got
that photo into the Philadelphia Inquirer the next morning. That
suggests a least one more civilian photographer on the scene
_after_ you left.

There is some other circumstantial evidence (which I've argued
with you about 100 times) that also is suggestive of other
reporters showing up afterwards.

 >Also, I was at least eight feet away from General Ramey
 >photographing him as he was examining the Roswell debris which
 >had just been delivered to his office by Major Marcel.

How do you know this debris was _necessarily_ the stuff from
Roswell or Mac Brazel's ranch? Why couldn't it have been
substitute debris brought it for a photo op with some unwitting
civilian photographer as part of a cover story?

As Gen. Dubose said in his affidavit: "The material shown in
the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather
balloon. The weather balloon explanation for the material was a
cover story to divert the attention of the press."

 >There would have been no concern in 1947 that my camera could
 >possibly read the fine print on the Ramey Message from such a
 >distance.

Agreed.

 >How could Ramey have possibly imagined that 50 years later a
 >computer enhancement could make this possible?

Agreed. Ramey could also have been a little careless. Secretary
of Defense Johnson likewise carelessly mentioned development of
the "H-bomb" to columnist Drew Pearson when Pearson was visiting
the White House in Jan. 1950. The "H-bomb" was headlines the
next day. Slip-ups happen.

David Rudiak







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   Mar > Mar 31

                 Future Lecturers at Science North, Sudbury

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 03:15:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:04:51 -0500
Subject: Future Lecturers at Science North, Sudbury


Errol,

I don't know exactly when, but Science North will be having a
second series of presentations at the INCO cavern (auditorium)
under the topic "Science on the Fringe". Two have nothing to do
with "Fringe Science", but the first presenter will be a
(canadian) representative from S.E.T.I. I'll be sure to go for
that one; I'm working on a very good question to ask him or her.
It sort of goes like this:

It is generally known that there are stars that are billions of
years older than our sun. Some people at SETI have been quoted
as saying that advanced extraterrestrial intelligence may
possibly exist in the universe.

_Now, if this extraterrestrial intelligence has a billion years
head-start on us, what makes you think that they would be using
"primitive" radio signals to contact anyone else out there? We
humans have sent probes to several planets and are in the
process of building an international space station. Don't you
think that these extraterrestrials, who are supposedly way more
advanced than we are, would be using space craft by now to get
from there to here, instead of using such things as radio
signals to communicate? Thank you.


I'm kind of disappointed though because I was hoping they'd be
having a well-known Ufologist come and talk about UFOs; I had
faxed biographies of different people, which included Richard
Haines, Stanton Friedman and John Schuessler. Looks to me UFOs
are not being taken very seriously at Science North, no matter
what kind of scientific background these experts may have. I
know one person on the administration board at Science North who
is open-minded on the subject, but the decision of who gets to
lecture there is out of her hands.

Maybe Science North will have a Ufologist next year...I hope.







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   Mar > Mar 31

                      Re: 10-25-89 'Sudbury Star' Story

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:51:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:07:53 -0500
Subject: Re: 10-25-89 'Sudbury Star' Story


 >Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:40:36 -0500
 >From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
 >Subject: 10-25-89 'Sudbury Star' Story
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Errol & list,

 >I came across this article (below) during my newspaper
 >research.

 >Can anyone tell me if this article refers to a UFO sighting
 >being dismissed by NORAD, or was there really a re-entry of a
 >Soviet satellite around or on October 24, 1989, which could have
 >been seen from Northern Ontario?

 >Thank you.

 >Cordially,

 >Michel M. Deschamps

 >-----

 >The Sudbury Star [Northern Ontario, Canada]

 >Strange Lights Probably A Satellite, NORAD Says

 >STAFF-- Those strange but beautiful lights which graced Northern
 >Ontario skies early Tuesday were a Soviet satellite re-entering
 >the earths atmosphere a NORAD spokesman says.

<snip>

Dear Michel:

I have no problem with the soviet re-entry on the face of it.
They are (or at least were) constantly throwing up spy
satellites, and these generally take near-polar orbits.

The Soviets would compensate for the versatility and longevity
of US spy sats with sheer numbers. Both plans had their merits
and drawbacks.

A Sov-Sat re-entry (or more likely the debris, boosters, you
name it) would be just as likely near Antarctica as in the
Arctic regions.

The following web page is instructive, if lengthy!

http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~jcm/space/log/satcat.txt

Its a good 2 or 3 megabyte download, so be patient!

I found all sorts of satellite (etc) re-entries, just about
daily in fact. Among these are a Kosmos-156 launched 27APR67
which came down 23OCT1989. Allowing for several hours worth of
time zones, this could have been seen on the 24rth.

There was a fall of "debris" from some "Delta 132" mission
launched on 14JLY77 which did re-enter on 24OCT89. This could
have easily been blamed on the Evil Empire, given their nearly
constant rain of space junk.

Debris from the Kosmos-1220 mission came down 25OCT89. Again,
allow for time zones. Actual locations of debris falls are not
given.

For 24OCT89 I have only one listing in the *U* UFO Database:
This was a sighting over NW Indiana, by two separate airliner
crews. They saw a boomerang shape headed NE at some impossible
speed. There was a "big beam (of light) upward. The object did
not register on radars. Source is Francis Ridge's book: Regional
Encounters, page 116. Email Fran Ridge for details.

A NE trajectory from NW Indiana could indeed put this object
over Ontario. The time of the airliner sighting was 0620 hrs
local ( CST ) however.

If this is the same object, it raises certain doubts about that
listing. Space junk can blaze away in technicolor for hours
until it finally flames out. I saw an amazing display like that
myself once.

For further info on the *U* Database, please see:

http://www.jps.net/larryhat/index.html

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

= = = = = = = = = = = = =







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   Mar > Mar 31

             US Presidential Election - How Not To Get Elected?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:26:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:26:51 -0500
Subject: US Presidential Election - How Not To Get Elected?




From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

Source: US Presidential Candidate Dr. Heather Ann Harder's Site

http://www.harder2000.com/noframes/ufo.htm


UFOs and Extra Terrestrial Life

"UFO�s exist and have always existed. You must only view the
Nazca Lines in Peru as proof. No amount of Government denial
will change my beliefs." Dr. Heather Anne Harder



As the Federal Government continues to deny the existence of
other worldly life forms, the American people only lose trust in
the Federal government. The truth is, the knowledge that we are
not alone is buried deep within our cellular memory. We already
know the truth. This alone accounts for the deep fascination
with all things which deal with this topic.

I believe we are not alone. The family of God is much larger
than most of us, including Steven Spielberg, can even imagine.
Daily hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of contacts are being
made which prepare us to meet our cosmic neighbors. How many
more need to occur before we acknowledge them as real?

Some of these contacts and ET�s are friendly and others are not.
As in all things, discernment is critical. These visitors from
space are helping us prepare for a new day on Earth. Instead of
trying to deny their existence. We must begin now to prepare for
open and direct contact with many extra terrestrial beings. We
need to learn how to discern which ET�s acts unselfishly for
greatest good and which only serve themselves.

Americans can best prepare themselves for this contact by
learning to respect diversity. If we can�t get along with our
fellow humans because their skin is a different color, they
worship differently, speak a different language, or believe a
different ideology, how can we hope to exist in a world filled
with beings that look like giant praying mantises? Now, more
than ever, we must begin to look inside a person�s heart to
determine whether this is a friend or foe. We must learn to
trust our own findings and not some governmental report.
According to one poll, more people believed in the existence of
ET�s than believed they would every see a social security check.
But, be careful what you wish for---most ET�s that have time for
joy rides are not the ones with which you want to play. The ET�s
that work on behalf of this planet are busy trying to save
humanity from destroying itself. To hasten this open contact
with these heavenly helpers, learn to stand in your own power
and respect yourself. They do not want to induce fear, or to be
worshipped as gods!

Meanwhile if you have a close encounter of any kind, stay in
your power. They are guests on this planet and only you have the
true power to determine your destiny. If the contact feels
unpleasant, send them away. Your thoughts can do the job. Demand
they leave you alone. Moving into fear only gives them power
over you. Call on God, Jesus or other Divinity to help you,
these names have power in all worlds.

       # # #

Dr. Heather Anne Harder is seeking the Democratic nomination for
President of the United States of America in the year 2000.
Heather Harder can lead and guide this country, not only because
she is a woman, but also because she has the expertise,
dedication and desire to get the job done. Her plain talking,
down to earth, radical common sense sometimes surprises and
always impresses. She has proven her tenacity and determination,
her compassion, and ability to lead. She began this massive
undertaking in 1990 and first ran for this office in 1996. Dr.
Harder holds a Ph.D. in education and is a former university
professor. She is an entrepreneur and businesswoman, author and
mother of two daughters. To learn more about Dr. Harder or her
campaign call 219-663-7340, www.harder2000.com, or e-mail
harder2000@aol.com.

Permission is granted to use part or all of this position
statement for publication and distribution with proper citation.

Dr. Heather Harder is available nationwide for telephone
interviews or by arrangement.

CONTACT: Lori Lennen for scheduling 219-663-7340


210 S. Main St.
Crown Point, IN 46307
Phone:219-663-7340
Fax:219-663-9974
Email:harder2000@aol.com

Paid for by the committee to elect
Dr. Heather Anne Harder President








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   Mar > Mar 31

                            Re: Sarah McClendon?

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:51:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:31:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?


 >Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 02:18:05 +0100
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>I attended a meeting of the McClendon Group at the NPC in
 >>>Washington, DC when Stephen Bassett gave a presentation on UFO
 >>>secrecy there.

 >>>Scott Hale

 >Hi Scott & All,

 >Is there a website around for the above person?


Roy, and list-

Stephen Bassett established (or was at least centrally involved
in the establishment of) the Paradigm Research Group (PRG).
Since this group's web page was developed while they were still
heavily invested in the expected Y2K "disaster" their URL is


http://www.paradigmclock.com/main.html

Bassett has been described as Washington's only "UFO Lobbyist",
and a visit to the site will provide information as to his goals
and accomplishments.

To my knowledge, he is not a UFO researcher, per se, and has (at
least in the past) established connections with Richard Hoagland
and Dr. Steven Greer.

 From my perspective, those connections have not helped him to
gain the support and trust of many central UFO researchers.

As a "Lobbyist" he is also required to file statements with the
Government which would show where he gets his financial support,
and it might be interesting to see exactly who is paying for
this lobbying.

Hope that helps.

Steve








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   Mar > Mar 31

                The OZ Files - The Australian UFO Story Tour

From: Bill Chalker <bill_c@bigpond.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:51:51 +1000
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:07:38 -0500
Subject: The OZ Files - The Australian UFO Story Tour


I thought it might be worthwhile to provide a tour of some of my
research information on the internet as it, in part, provides a
cross section of research focusing on Australian UFO research.
Hope you enjoy the tour.

As tour guide here are some intros on yours truly along with key
document links such as:


The 1966 Tully case Australian aboriginal culture & possible UFO
connections A personal account of "angel hair" The Ultimate
Secret - Fact or Fiction: The Australian Connection UFO 'Sub
Rosa' down under - the Australian military & government role in
the UFO controversy.

http://www.project1947.com/forum/index.htm


The bio section also provides a link to Glenn Campbell's review
of my book 'The OZ Files - The Australian UFO Story', along with
an index and the introduction.  For those interested I have a
limited number of copies.


For details contact me at:

bill_c@pibpond.com

or at

P.O. Box W42,
West Pennant Hills,
NSW, AUSTRALIA,
2125

http:/enterprise.powerup.com.au/~auforn/BCintro.htm


Early historical information on Australian UFOs can be found at
the following:

www.project1947.com/bcausenc.htm

I particularly draw your attention to the 1868 Parramatta
"contact" case, the 1909 wave and the 1927 Fernvale milieu Via
the above Project1947 forum index section there is a link to
research on possible aboriginal connections

I have had a long term interest in physical evidence.  The
following sites will elaborate that interest: A detail review of
physical trace evidence is at:

http://www.project1947.com/bctrace1.htm

www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw/main_page_australasian_phy.htm


Specific cases studies include:

The famous 1966 Tully UFO nest milieu: see the link at the
Project1947 forum index site above, plus also:

www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw/tully_nest_1966.htm Kelly


Cahill's abduction milieu:

http://www.rmdavis.demon.co.uk/ufos/nathen/nat91.txt


For details of the intriguing 'alien' hair investigation
involving Peter Khoury see the following:

Jerome Clark's 27 May, 1999 announcement re "Biological Evidence
of an alien entity" in the International UFO Reporter (IUR) as
"Strange Evidence", and the discussion that followed:

www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/may/m27-010.shtml

The CNI summary report - "DNA sample from Abduction case raises
big questions":

http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/a1999/jun/g9.htm


An interesting aside re. Kary Mullis, PCR & abductions based on
my interview with Nobel laureate Kary Mullis:

http://www.cufos.org/iur_Spring99_addendum.html

The saga even got a run in 'Saucer Smear'!:

http://www.martiansgohome.com/smear/v46/ss990701.htm


For an account of the famous Father Gill case of 1959:

www.qtm.net/~geibdan/newse/oz.html


Further information on military investigations, apart from the
detailed "Sub Rosa" report on the Project 1947 forum section:


Enquiries into official involvement in Australia:

http://enterprise.powerup.com.au/~auforn/Bill_Chalker_2.htm


Study of official Australian Government involvement in the UFO
controversy - a progress report:

http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/newse/aus3.html


For the controversial side see

'UFO Crash/Retrieval Stories - The Australian Experience':
at the Australiasian Ufologist site, Vol.1.No.3, July-Sept.1997
see also DSTO & UFOs:

www.networx.com.au/home/slider/DSTO1.htm


For an alternative approach see

UFO Flaps - A Context For Scientific Study, which includes some
of my own personal experiences in a localised UFO flap at
Tyringham-Dundurrabin during 1973:

http://enterprise.powerup.com.au/~auforn/Bill_Chalker_1.htm


My own 'daylight disc' sighting during 1972:

http://enterprise.powerup.com.au/~auforn/bcdisc.htm


Photos from a rogues gallery:

www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw/pictures.htm


Anybody taking this tour may have had trouble stirring the pot.
Try the following:

The 'Boise Boy's Legacy' - an alternative view of ufology's
beginning:

www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/apr/m27-643.shtml

Also a link for the 'UFO Crash/Retrieval Stories - The
Australian Experience':

http://www.powerup.com.au/~ufologist/Bill_Chalker.html


Trust you enjoy the tour,

Best wishes,

Bill Chalker







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   Mar > Mar 31

                  PRG/SGB/X-PPAC [was: Re: Sarah McClendon]

From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:44:52 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:14:26 -0500
Subject: PRG/SGB/X-PPAC [was: Re: Sarah McClendon]


 >Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:51:28 -0500
 >From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 02:18:05 +0100
 >>From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Sarah McClendon?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>I attended a meeting of the McClendon Group at the NPC in
 >>>>Washington, DC when Stephen Bassett gave a presentation on UFO
 >>>>secrecy there.

<snip>

 >Roy, and list-

 >Stephen Bassett established (or was at least centrally involved
 >in the establishment of) the Paradigm Research Group (PRG)..
 >Since this group's web page was developed while they were still
 >heavily invested in the expected Y2K "disaster" their URL is

Clarification: PRG has nothing to do with Y2K... There is no Y2K
material on the PRG website... The confusion may stem from a
misinterpretation of the 'Paradigm Clock' which is about formal
disclosure of the ET presence and not about millennium issues.
Midnight on the PC represents such formal disclosure.

Much of the political material that would have been placed on the
PRG site is now going up on the X-PPAC website, which is a project
of PRG, www.x-ppac.org

 >http://www.paradigmclock.com/main.html

 >Bassett has been described as Washington's only "UFO Lobbyist",
 >and a visit to the site will provide information as to his goals
 >and accomplishments.

I suppose one can be described as anything... However, if you
register as a lobbyist with the House and Senate, declare on
that registration the UFO/ET cover-up by elements of the federal
government and its agencies as a stated issue, call up members
to get meetings on that issue, badger the press to cover the
politics of UFOs/Disclosure - then it is a correct description.

 >To my knowledge, he is not a UFO researcher, per se, and has (at
 >least in the past) established connections with Richard Hoagland
 >and Dr. Steven Greer..

That is correct.

 >From my perspective, those connections have not helped him to
 >gain the support and trust of many central UFO researchers..

I work with a lot of people in various ways. This association or
that association is not the issue..The issue is the field as a
whole refuses to work together, preferring endless and
nonproductive, testosterone laden pissing matches to tolerance
and cooperation (which by and large Steven Kaiser is <not> a
party to)... Aside from the formidable barriers put up by the
government, this failure to work together by the UFO/ET research
and activist community is the major reason the cover-up has
lasted as long as it has.

I would be happy to lobby on behalf of CUFOS, FUFOR and MUFON
and have said so many times.

 >As a "Lobbyist" he is also required to file statements with the
 >Government which would show where he gets his financial support,
 >and it might be interesting to see exactly who is paying for
 >this lobbying..

I'll save anyone the time..Registrations are on file for 1) the
Enterprise Mission, 2) CSETI, 3) Stargate International
(closed), 4) Operation Right to Know, and 5) Skywatch
International.

All lobbying work to date has been done pro bono... No one has
been charged a penny... One associate provided a modest loan in
a time of need which has been repaid... There have been a few
thousand dollars in contributions from other supporters not
associated with the registered groups.

No monies contributed to X-PPAC are used for PRG activities. It
is the other way around. PRG has contributed $210 to X-PPAC.

Thus, beyond those funds mentioned above, the lobbying work has
been supported by my personal funds, tens of thousands of
dollars... This is not a complaint, I am happy to do it.

If PRG and X-PPAC should benefit from major contributions in the
future from others who are tired of being lied to about the most
important event in history, the political work will proceed that
much faster... If not, the work will proceed nonetheless.

Steve Bassett